Leadership Makes A Difference

Good day to all you morons and moronettes. God willing, Hillary Clinton will never be president.

I spent an hour or two this morning cleaning our my e-mail inbox. You know those stories you sometimes see in the newspaper about some old guy who dies and then they find out he was a compulsive hoarder and they spend days hauling out all the crap he'd been accumulating for decades? Yeah, well, my Outlook InBox is kind of like that guy's house.

Anyway, I found this e-mail from 2004. I don't remember how it came to be in my possession, but I'm on a number of Christian e-mail lists, so it probably came from one of them. The 'Sent' date places it before the November elections:

I recently attended the National Pastors Convention in San Diego with several thousand pastors from many different denominations. During one of the general sessions, the MC introduced a pastor from Uzbekistan. He had traveled the farthest to attend the convention, so they wanted to interview him. I don't remember his name, and even if I did, I know I couldn't pronounce it. However, I do know this: I will never forget this man.

Right away, I liked him. He was humble, sincere, and gracious. He apologized for his broken English, though I thought he spoke very well. As the MC interviewed him, he began to share about his ministry in his country that borders Afghanistan. He talked about the church he pastors of a few hundred people. He also shared how it is illegal in his country to be a Christian. You see, his church is an "underground" church. Amazingly, his city also has 3 "underground" Christian schools. He talked about how the Christians have been arrested and even killed in his country.

Then, as the interview was about to end, he began to speak very urgently and passionately. He said something to this effect: "I would like all of you to know that my church and the Christians in my country are praying that President Bush will be reelected."

I was stunned. I knew that this gathering had to include many pastors from all over the political spectrum and I was certain this would not go over well. Immediately, there were murmurings and rumblings throughout the audience and the MC seemed a little uncertain about what to do next.

However, this pastor would not be denied. Grasping the microphone firmly in his hand, he continued, "The officials in my country are afraid of President Bush, so they don't persecute Christians as much. Under Clinton it was very bad for us. Many of us were arrested, put in jail, and some were killed. With Clinton, it was very bad. But under President Bush, it has been so much better, so we are praying for him."

The murmuring ended. It was suddenly very quiet. The MC paused. Then he just asked us to stand and pray for this man and we did so with great passion.

Choking back tears, I was immediately struck with this realization in my heart: this coming election was not just about me or my church or my country. This coming election would affect the entire world. And while there are many Christians and churches in this country that may not support and may even despise our current President, there is a group of Christians halfway around the world who are desperately praying for his reelection.

All of the sudden, the election became something very different for me.

It is not just about the economy, gay marriage, or weapons of mass destruction. It's about the persecuted church around the world. As believers, what issues should be more important to us? This transcends politics. This is about the Kingdom of God for which Christ suffered and died, and for those believers in other countries who are suffering and dying as well.

I was also convicted in my heart about praying for our President. And I wonder, which church is praying more fervently for him: the persecuted church in Uzbekistan or the prosperous church in America? It makes you think.

As the Apostle Paul said in Hebrews 13:3, "Remember those in prison as if you were their fellow prisoners, and those who are mistreated as if you yourselves were suffering."

Remember, this election is not just about us. It's about them.

Emphasis mine.

This is one of those things that I wanted to be true. However, like many similar things that get passed around on the internet, it very well could be a fake story written by some guy doing a lot of wishful thinking. I was fortunate that the author's e-mail address was listed at the end of the e-mail, so I wrote to him asking for confirmation. I thought that would the last I'd hear of it. Ho hum, another day, another fake internet story.

But he actually wrote back. Apparently, many others had written him asking for confirmation just as I had. He told me:

[I]t is my true personal experience. I attended the National Pastors Convention in San Diego on March 10-13th of this year where this all took place. They don't have a tape or video of that particular session, but they have now posted a transcript on their website at {redacted} with the pastor's name.

As you can see from the transcript, though I may not have quoted him word for word from memory, I think I certainly captured the essence of what he said. What my original email provides that the transcript doesn't is the climate of the meeting and my heartfelt reaction to what he said. I was so moved by this experience and I still feel the same way.

In addition, I have received many email messages from Christians in other countries who wholeheartedly agree with this pastor's words. Our perspective here in America is sometimes so limited. I have also received email from people who actually know this pastor, and they attest to his testimony and character.

I redacted the website link he provided because it now goes nowhere. But I tracked it down on archive.org and found it here. Here is the relevant quote from the transcript:

Andrey: …because in our, we also pray for—for your president, uh George, George Bush so could stay for one more term because, because we feel, we feel that uh, US government push our government and uh sometimes we think if—if he, if you don’t we all would be in prison, prisons, and would be killed, you know. Really, we can feel it. Because the afraid to, to kill us freely. I mean to, to catch us and put in prisons, I mean openly. So they afraid to do that now. During Clinton time it was very hard time, very difficult…

This is very interesting. President Bush didn't get up on the world change and bluster and threaten dire consequences if other countries continued to persecute their Christian minorities. The leaders of those countries observed how he was conducting American foreign policy and made their plans accordingly.^*

Libya's Mohammar Khadafi was one of these guys who felt the heat. Prior to 9/11, there was much talk of him making plans to acquire nuclear technology and maybe even build nuclear weapons. But then after the Iraq invasion, he surrendered what nuclear technology he had and abandoned plans to acquire more. Bush had almost literally put the fear of God into him. From that point on, Khadafi was pretty much neutered, and no longer a threat.

And everything was stabilized as well as could be expected until Obama and SoS Clinton screwed everything up. Their incompetent bungling in Libya turned it into a dumpster fire and made the middle East a more dangerous place, all in the name of "human rights." But that's another story.

The point is, in ways that sometimes aren't obvious, it does make a difference who's in the White House. I can well imagine that after Bush left office and Obama started to implement his own foreign policy, the Uzbekistan goverment gradually increased its harassment and persecution of Christians. They knew there would be no consequences. They knew Obama would do nothing to stop them. Heck, if they played their victim cards just right, Obama might even take their side. And the Uzbeki Christians are left twisting in the wind.

(It's kind of like high school, when one of the teachers was sick, we were all, like, alright, we're getting a sub, now we can goof off all period, and what's he going to do about it? Which, actually, is a pretty good metaphor for the Obama presidency. That is, for the past 8 years, he's been the country's substitute teacher.)

So I've read a few MSM stories since the election of how this or that foreign leader has a low opinion of ~~Donald Trump~~, excuse me, ahem, President Elect Donald Trump, and the story is always presented as if that's a bad thing. But you know, I'm thinking, hey, that's a feature, not a bug. It's just confirmation that Donald Trump is making all the right enemies, both domestic *and* foreign.

This is what it's like to have a new sheriff in town. I hope President Trump will have the same effect on Christian persecution that President Bush evidently had. Obviously the persecution won't disappear completely, but any lessening of it is a welcome thing. And you know that if the election had gone the other way, the bad actors on the world stage would have been rejoicing. Business as usual! Who hoo!

So Rick Wilson, Egg McMuffin, Bill Kristol, and the rest of the #NeverTrumpers who worked hard to sabotage Trump and thus elect Hillary Clinton can all go pee up a rope. And that goes double for the other erstwhile "conservatives" like pundit David Frum, who actually wrote that President Clinton would be better for America and better for the world than President Trump. The Christians of Uzbekistan would probably disagree.

----------------------------------
^*I am not suggesting that we should have military intervention to stop or prevent persecution of Christians as a doctrine of American foreign policy. However, having said that, perhaps there are things we can do with our trade agreements and favored nation status that would be helpful.

Posted by: OregonMuse at 06:00 PM

Comments

(Jump to bottom of comments)

1 Anyone offered to go get the others yet?

Posted by: Thing From Snowy Mountain, #MakeCarcosaGreatAgain at November 22, 2016 06:04 PM (5OK42)

2 Thank you for this!

Posted by: Beth M at November 22, 2016 06:04 PM (kiy9d)

3 Not me.

Posted by: Deplorable 98ZJUSMC at November 22, 2016 06:04 PM (MHq1d)

4 Wow and I read the whole thing. I'm also so very encouraged by Trump's stand on Israel.

Posted by: Beth M at November 22, 2016 06:05 PM (kiy9d)

5 OT a bit: oddly enough, Canada's gormless wee Prime Minister really WAS a substitute teacher. Nice hair, though.

I continue to pray for DJT's personal safety. There is a great overturning that has started and I want to see it succeed.

Posted by: Halfwise at November 22, 2016 06:07 PM (rB/gm)

6 Feared and respected is the way to go.

In that order.

Posted by: Joe Mama at November 22, 2016 06:08 PM (lERYu)

7 Yuuge and luxurious and classy content. The best, just the best, really.

Posted by: Your Decidedly Devious Uncle Palpatine, Still Accepting Harem Applicants at November 22, 2016 06:08 PM (Awoh0)

8 Big stick and all that...

Posted by: freaked at November 22, 2016 06:09 PM (BO/km)

9 But Bush's Middle East policies (particularly in regard to Iraq) have resulted in ISIS, and mass persecution and Christian exodus. I'm not sure the Uzbek story counterbalances this.

Posted by: Jason at November 22, 2016 06:09 PM (jgmPg)

10 Thank you for this post, OM. As Christians here in America we tend to forget our prosecuted brothers and sisters around the world. If Trump can truly eradicate ISIS and their barbaric ways, it would go a long way to helping Christians in that region.

Posted by: IC at November 22, 2016 06:11 PM (a0IVu)

11 Top 10

Posted by: Weasel at November 22, 2016 06:11 PM (Sfs6o)

12 Thank you OM

Posted by: Votermom the Deplorable @vm on Gab.ai at November 22, 2016 06:11 PM (Om16U)

13 Damnit!

Posted by: Weasel at November 22, 2016 06:11 PM (Sfs6o)

14 Anybody know how much krokodil 20 rubles gets you? Asking for a friend in the previous thread.

Posted by: hogmartin at November 22, 2016 06:11 PM (8nWyX)

15 Bush's problem with Iraq was he didn't have the heart to finish what he started. I know he was sabotaged in every direction, but he in charge--go strong or don't go at all.

That, and once conquered we should have used Iraq a base to remove the Iranian government as well.

Posted by: Crusader at November 22, 2016 06:12 PM (ewSN2)

16 If Hillary can get 52% of the population voting for her as a would be criminal how many can she get being free and clear?

Posted by: Skip-hoping Trump at least does random conservative acts at November 22, 2016 06:12 PM (Hh+Gc)

17 I believe a certain Mr. Capone said something about getting more with a smile and a gun than you could with just a smile.

Posted by: Joe Mama at November 22, 2016 06:12 PM (lERYu)

18 I forget whether it was here or elsewhere, but I can't find a link to a blog post I read somewhere about Theodore Roosevelt at the funeral of Edward the Seventh.

Posted by: Thing From Snowy Mountain, #MakeCarcosaGreatAgain at November 22, 2016 06:12 PM (5OK42)

19 I'll tell you one thing - some of these rooskie dashboard cam videos are pretty damn amusing.

Posted by: Weasel at November 22, 2016 06:12 PM (Sfs6o)

20 I still have at least one Nigerian email in my inbox.

Posted by: Grump928(C) at November 22, 2016 06:12 PM (0F67M)

21 But Bush's Middle East policies (particularly in regard to Iraq) have resulted in ISIS, and mass persecution and Christian exodus. I'm not sure the Uzbek story counterbalances this.

Bush's policies followed by Obama's fecklessness. Iraq was stable before Obama started changing everything.

Posted by: Grey Fox, now with added assault weaponry! at November 22, 2016 06:13 PM (bZ7mE)

22 Just having a POTUS who speaks up for freedom makes a big difference in the morale of the oppressed. There is plenty of testimony on that from people in the USSR and Eastern Europe.

How do you think the political prisoners of Cuba --- and there are still thousands of them --- feel when they see Obama kiss the feet of the Castros? Hopeless. Alone.
Erased from history.

No, we don't have to invade foreign countries, but we USED to speak out and try to mitigate the oppression.

Posted by: Margarita DeVille at November 22, 2016 06:13 PM (Nox3c)

23 I still have at least one Nigerian email in my inbox.

Every morning I wake to find local MILFs have yet again flooded my email.

Posted by: Crusader at November 22, 2016 06:14 PM (ewSN2)

24 They were scared of W? I mean really scared, not like Code Pink?

P.S. Rombley for Sec. of State? Dude, you don't drain the swamp by throwing in another alligator.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, This Is the Dawning of the Age of the Trumpius! at November 22, 2016 06:14 PM (Nwg0u)

25 I would like to add further illustration to "pee up a rope" for Kill Brystol and the rest, with... "and then stuff the rope up your pee-hole like a giant sisal candiru". Because I'm a giver like that.

Posted by: Sporkatus at November 22, 2016 06:15 PM (eXSOZ)

26 You must always assume that a Democrat will follow to throw away all gains and betray all allies.

It's what they do.

Posted by: Grump928(C) at November 22, 2016 06:15 PM (0F67M)

27 There is no truth but your own truth anymore, people are so disconnected Even neighbors.

Posted by: Tinfoilbaby at November 22, 2016 06:15 PM (6Ll1u)

28 But Bush's Middle East policies (particularly in regard to Iraq) have resulted in ISIS, and mass persecution and Christian exodus. I'm not sure the Uzbek story counterbalances this.

-
I'm laying this at the feet of Obozo.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, This Is the Dawning of the Age of the Trumpius! at November 22, 2016 06:16 PM (Nwg0u)

29 As a poor sinner save by grace and through no merit of my own? I owe a lot. If it be GOD's will that I confess Christ and die? Well there it is. I pray I can do that, even if I wet my drawers. Of course, I hope this is after I take out a heap of the enemy.

Posted by: Eromero at November 22, 2016 06:17 PM (zLDYs)

30 So are there any left after Obama?

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at November 22, 2016 06:17 PM (4ErVI)

31 The more moderate Muslims also need encouragement and support.

When Western society shrugs at burkas, sharia and polygamy in the name of freedom of religion it emboldens the hardliners and discourages those who might be inclined to assimilate.

I probably mentioned yesterday that I define a Democrat as some who demands that Republicans should assimilate, but nor Muslims.

Posted by: Halfwise at November 22, 2016 06:17 PM (rB/gm)

32 >> Every morning I wake to find local MILFs have yet
>> again flooded my email.

Look, if I could wake up every morning to a hot tub full of local MILFs that might be as close to Heaven as I'm ever going to get.

With my luck it'd be half a dozen Trigglypuffs and a busted heater and my scrotum would look like a walnut shell.

Posted by: JEM at November 22, 2016 06:18 PM (TppKb)

33 Thank you, Oregon Muse. This afternoon, I heard a pastor from a predominately muslim country basically talking along these same lines. You're right - so humbling to think that they are praying for our country more than we are. Thanks for this letter.

Posted by: grammie winger - Thanks be to God for His indescribable gift at November 22, 2016 06:19 PM (dFi94)

34 That''s The Historical President Elect Donald Trump to you.

Posted by: West at November 22, 2016 06:19 PM (Sm8nr)

35 Trump wants to take the gloves off with ISIS, and may enlist Russian help to do it.

China is a multi-faceted negotiation for Trump.

Other than that, he's telegraphed that the rest of the World is on its own.

Certainly with the benefit of hindsight, we spent too much blood and treasure in Iraq and wound up making the region worse off. We don't have the appetite for foreign adventures that don't involve clearly strategic interests. With energy independence, what would those be?

Posted by: Ignoramus at November 22, 2016 06:19 PM (SIY7D)

36 We're tanned, botoxed and ready.

Posted by: Local MILFs at November 22, 2016 06:21 PM (Tyii7)

37 Editing!

I probably mentioned yesterday that I define a Democrat as someone who demands that Republicans should assimilate, but not Muslims.

Posted by: Halfwise at November 22, 2016 06:21 PM (rB/gm)

38 Certainly with the benefit of hindsight, we spent too much blood and treasure in Iraq and wound up making the region worse off. We don't have the appetite for foreign adventures that don't involve clearly strategic interests. With energy independence, what would those be?

Posted by: Ignoramus at November 22, 2016 06:19 PM (SIY7D)

Easily foreseen considering our track record post WWII. But hey I wasn't in charge to stop it and could only watch the inevitable disgrace unfold.

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at November 22, 2016 06:22 PM (4ErVI)

39 Layers and layers of fact-checking:

https://goo.gl/5J0Blr

Don't think I've ever seen his name spelled that way in the press.

https://youtu.be/kAAldg3I3uQ

Posted by: JEM at November 22, 2016 06:23 PM (TppKb)

40
I still have at least one Nigerian email in my inbox.
Posted by: Grump928(C)

I've got an old email from Anthony Weiner. Wonder what the attachment is.....

*click*

Aieeeeeeeeeee!

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at November 22, 2016 06:23 PM (kdS6q)

41 You've mentioned that before, I believe

Posted by: Bigbys Cellphone at November 22, 2016 06:24 PM (U0lQa)

42 It matters at the local level too. When folks chose the Governor of Missouri, were they thinking that he'd have to deal with the Ferguson riots?

Posted by: Notsothoreau at November 22, 2016 06:25 PM (Lqy/e)

43
Went from christian pastor in Uzbekistan to MILF's in a hot tub in 23 comments.

Posted by: Superman at November 22, 2016 06:25 PM (lKyWE)

44 19 I'll tell you one thing - some of these rooskie dashboard cam videos are pretty damn amusing.
Posted by: Weasel at November 22, 2016 06:12 PM (Sfs6o)

+++

They are just frightful. It is as if the whole country bought new cars and trucks and no one ever took driver's ed. Many of the roads also lack dividing lines, stop signs, and signals (even though they tend to be ignored when available).

Posted by: washrivergal at November 22, 2016 06:25 PM (CFc5L)

45 I still have at least one Nigerian email in my inbox.
That's nothing. I have several female Nigerians in crates. I mean, um, uhh...
*shifty eyes*

Posted by: Sporkatus at November 22, 2016 06:25 PM (eXSOZ)

46 And while there are many Christians and churches in this country that may not support and may even despise our current President
---
If you mean the churches flying rainbow flags in the name of inclusion, maybe that should be "christians".

Posted by: Methos at November 22, 2016 06:26 PM (3Liv/)

47 Real MILF's in a hot tub are waiting to talk to you!

Posted by: Real MILF's in a hot tub at November 22, 2016 06:26 PM (8rNrN)

48 >> That's nothing. I have several female Nigerians in
>> crates. I mean, um, uhh...
>> *shifty eyes*

You need some binders, brah.

Posted by: Mitt Romney at November 22, 2016 06:26 PM (TppKb)

49 Yeah people are disconnected and out home architecture reelects that. Drive around a neighborhood built in the early part of the 20th century. Big houses, wide sweeping front porches near the road. That gradually gave way in the 60s to smaller houses (smaller families), no front porch at all, and offset greatly from the road. With A/C people could stay inside and had no thought of neighbors. Looking at my neighborhood built in the 80s, although the homes are still "relatively" small front porches have been reborn, and the houses are nearer to the road even though they are located on 3/4 acre lots.

So maybe the trends are reversing.

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at November 22, 2016 06:27 PM (mpXpK)

50

Ugh

Hubby just told me not only Commie/anarchist SIL and BIL are coming, so is his total bitch commie Hillary worshipping shit stirring aunt

Posted by: ThunderB at November 22, 2016 06:28 PM (Gnd/x)

51 Many of the roads also lack dividing lines, stop signs, and signals (even though they tend to be ignored when available).
Posted by: washrivergal at November 22, 2016 06:25 PM (CFc5L)

Purely anecdotal, but from a co-worker who's done missionary work there, the dividing lines are hidden by snow half the year so they just use the overhead markers as guides.

Posted by: hogmartin at November 22, 2016 06:29 PM (8nWyX)

52 I have seen lots of Russian dashboard videos, the story goes everyone is so leary of insurance scams its a must to have one.

Posted by: Skip-hoping Trump at least does random conservative acts at November 22, 2016 06:30 PM (Hh+Gc)

53 >> Hubby just told me not only Commie/anarchist SIL
>> and BIL are coming, so is his total bitch commie
>> Hillary worshipping shit stirring aunt

Hey, we're going to our Obama-donor in-laws for Thanksgiving. I'm sure there will be at least a couple remarks I'll have to ignore.

Slip off to the bathroom or the yard or something. Asking one of the cute nieces why I've had a Viagra-quality erection for two weeks might not be appropriate.

Posted by: Mitt Romney at November 22, 2016 06:32 PM (TppKb)

54 I see many videos of drunk Russian guy falling off various buildings.

Also drunk Russian guy fighting someone.

Also Russian dashcam video footage of crazy accidents.

Sometimes you hit the trifecta and see drunk Russian guy in a car accident captured on dashcam who then proceeds to fight someone while falling off of something.

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at November 22, 2016 06:32 PM (4ErVI)

55 Epic sockfail...reset.

Posted by: JEM at November 22, 2016 06:32 PM (TppKb)

56 So Rick Wilson, Egg McMuffin, Bill Kristol, and the rest of the
#NeverTrumpers who worked hard to sabotage Trump and thus elect Hillary
Clinton can all go pee up a rope. And that goes double for the other
erstwhile "conservatives" like pundit David Frum, who actually wrote
that President Clinton would be better for America and better for the
world than President Trump.
====

And Mitt Romney.

Amen.

Posted by: Mortimer, Finish Her! at November 22, 2016 06:33 PM (zu88C)

57 Heavy equipment fail videos also seem to come mostly from Russia. It's like Tobacco Road.

Posted by: Kodos the Executioner at November 22, 2016 06:33 PM (J8/9G)

58 I was going to sincerely ask the Horde in all innocence:

Is Trump pro-interventionist, or anti-interventionist, when it comes to forign policy?

Because I seem to have heard declarations in both directions.

But then I withdrew the question before I even asked it.

Why?

Because I believe Trump is just going to improvise his entire Presidency. He doesn't have a solid policy framework or belief system. It just going to be, "Whatever works right now, right here, in this circumstance."

While some - especially wonky insider-types - -see this as a disastrous fatal flaw in Trump's entire approach, I personally see it as beautifully beneficial. Because whatever he does, it couldn't be as bad as the intentionally designed corrosive anti-American policies of the Obama administration. Whatever Trump decides, it will certainly be "pro-America" at least in its intent. Which is good enough for me.

Posted by: zombie at November 22, 2016 06:33 PM (jBuUi)

59
Purely anecdotal, but from a co-worker who's done missionary work there, the dividing lines are hidden by snow half the year so they just use the overhead markers as guides.
Posted by: hogmartin at November 22, 2016 06:29 PM (8nWyX)

+++

Interesting. Overhead markers? Like dangling from a telephone line type of thing?

Posted by: washrivergal at November 22, 2016 06:33 PM (CFc5L)

60 ThunderB- I can offer moral support and a thought. After they are gone the relief is going to be joyous.

Posted by: Ben Had at November 22, 2016 06:34 PM (3k5gg)

61 >> I have seen lots of Russian dashboard videos, the
>> story goes everyone is so leary of insurance scams
>> its a must to have one.

Yeah, the story I got was that Russkie insurance won't pay if you can't prove it WASN'T your fault, so cameras.

Posted by: JEM at November 22, 2016 06:34 PM (TppKb)

62 Eye-opening post, OM, and much appreciated.

Posted by: Miley, Duchess of the DSR at November 22, 2016 06:34 PM (tHwdc)

63 I'd rather have a hot tub full of school girls.

Posted by: Carlos Danger at November 22, 2016 06:35 PM (FqgrG)

64 9 But Bush's Middle East policies (particularly in regard to Iraq) have resulted in ISIS, and mass persecution and Christian exodus. I'm not sure the Uzbek story counterbalances this.
Posted by: Jason at November 22, 2016 06:09 PM (jgmPg)

Yes, the bi partisan shitfuck that was Iraq was disastrous. But it's a stretch to say the invasion of Iraq in 2004 is a proximate cause of the rise of a Sunni caliphate centered in Raqqa, Syria in 2014 (or whenever the "arab spring" began).

As for Christian exodus? That happened over a thousand years ago. Outside of some areas of Lebanon and Egypt, there are very few (alive and with their heads) Christians in the Middle East, or in land claimed by the ummah for that matter.

Posted by: Harry Paratestes at November 22, 2016 06:35 PM (cJrMO)

65 While some - especially wonky insider-types - -see this as a disastrous fatal flaw in Trump's entire approach, I personally see it as beautifully beneficial. Because whatever he does, it couldn't be as bad as the intentionally designed corrosive anti-American policies of the Obama administration. Whatever Trump decides, it will certainly be "pro-America" at least in its intent. Which is good enough for me.

Posted by: zombie at November 22, 2016 06:33 PM (jBuUi)

If the system was so good, how did we get here?

As for Trump and his pro-America stance, I've thought about that a lot. He resembles Reagan with that I think in that you never, ever doubted Reagan really loved the country and the people.

I think if he approaches everything from the perspective of "How is this good for America?", he'll likely end up good to go more often than not.

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at November 22, 2016 06:36 PM (4ErVI)

66 Posted by: washrivergal at November 22, 2016 06:33 PM (CFc5L)

Like highway exit lane signs, but strung across the street. He didn't really go into much detail, but it sounded like they're only in cities.

Posted by: hogmartin at November 22, 2016 06:36 PM (8nWyX)

67 Metaphor:

America is a corporation. Trump is our new COO. His goal -- which he pursues single-mindedly - -is to turn the company around and make it profitable again. Nothing else matters. All strategies are on the table. Everything is open to debate. Keep the good, discard the bad. Regardless of whatever else side-effects there may be.

Posted by: zombie at November 22, 2016 06:37 PM (jBuUi)

68 66 Posted by: washrivergal at November 22, 2016 06:33 PM (CFc5L)

Like highway exit lane signs, but strung across the street. He didn't really go into much detail, but it sounded like they're only in cities.
Posted by: hogmartin at November 22, 2016 06:36 PM (8nWyX)

++++

Ah.

Posted by: washrivergal at November 22, 2016 06:37 PM (CFc5L)

69 63 I'd rather have a hot tub full of school girls.

Posted by: Carlos Danger at November 22, 2016 06:35 PM (FqgrG)

Why think so small?

Throw in their hot MILF mothers.

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at November 22, 2016 06:37 PM (4ErVI)

70 >> Because I believe Trump is just going to improvise
>> his entire Presidency. He doesn't have a solid policy
>> framework or belief system. It just going to be,
>> "Whatever works right now, right here, in this
>> circumstance."

Exactly. Believed that since the beginning of his campaign.

There's good and bad to that, and it's not what I'd have wanted to start with. But personnel is policy and all that, and his appointments will create some hysteresis, some friction, that'll damp his tendency to do whatever his morning wood tells him to do that day.

And the odds that it'll be better than Hillary are still well over 90%.

Posted by: JEM at November 22, 2016 06:37 PM (TppKb)

71 Dack and Ignoramus, wrong.

Iraq was thrown away, pure and simple. After the "tough" part (which was historically not tough at all) was past. Along with the Iran catastrophe, this was the "legacy" of unforced, insanely stupid error that the affirmative action non-entity in the WH and his band of fourth-rate Beltway types built.

It was in all the papers.

With enough insanity and effort, western Europe and even Japan could have been thrown away after WWII, as well. Hell, anything less than the very forward-leaning inteference in Europe for years (Greek civil war, Italian and French nat'l politics) might well have yielded something very very different than what we saw there. So strategic interest and comparatively massive effort and sacrifice would have made no difference.

And neither Iraq nor A'stan were about energy. And energy independence is a meaningless semantic concept - or, at best, a misspelling of energy "abundance" (which we are starting to see and should be seeing in full flower soon).

But there's no hope in straightening out the record. Which is one reason I really hope we don't waste too much $$$ "rebuilding" the military.

We have about 4 times the military we require to support the strategy the PE has outlined or intimated (no concrete details have as yet, understandably, been available). There's no point in having global expeditionary capability if one has no intention of ever using it. Defense and punitive capability are a much smaller investment.

Posted by: rhomboid at November 22, 2016 06:38 PM (QDnY+)

72 Boobies, boobies, boobies, oh sorry, I was just talking to myself. I'll try not to do that aga..boobies boobies boobies.....

Posted by: Tinfoilbaby at November 22, 2016 06:39 PM (6Ll1u)

73 And I'll post it again.

Please tell my wife to play this song at my funeral. I'll do my best to bounce around in the casket a little bit.

https://youtu.be/kAAldg3I3uQ

Posted by: JEM at November 22, 2016 06:39 PM (TppKb)

74 @zombie Trump has stated that he is anti-interventionist but also he believes if we are intervening then we must win.

I'll take it.

Posted by: blaster at November 22, 2016 06:40 PM (stTTh)

75 Posted by: Margarita DeVille at November 22, 2016 06:13 PM (Nox3c)

Exactly. People from the Eastern Bloc related how Reagan speaking to them through the tv gave them hope that they weren't forgotten. Acknowledging the *real* struggles against oppression and using financial power can go a long way to help.

Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette at November 22, 2016 06:41 PM (GDulk)

76 Two days til Thanksgiving

Flamethrower is in the trunk.

Posted by: Mr Aspirin Factory at November 22, 2016 06:41 PM (89T5c)

77 JEM, if I go to your funeral and see you start bouncing around in your casket, I'm getting the hell out of there because for sure the Zombie Apocalypse has arrived.

Posted by: Deplorable Old Blue at November 22, 2016 06:41 PM (9iR5/)

78 71 Dack and Ignoramus, wrong.

Iraq was thrown away, pure and simple. After the "tough" part (which was historically not tough at all) was past.

Posted by: rhomboid

You are 100% correct.

Behold a post I made in November of 2008:

http://www.zombietime.com/vi_day/

Victory in Iraq Day

November 22, 2008

"We won. The Iraq War is over.

I declare November 22, 2008 to be "Victory in Iraq Day." (Hereafter known as "VI Day.")

By every measure, The United States and coalition forces have conclusively defeated all enemies in Iraq, pacified the country, deposed the previous regime, successfully helped to establish a new functioning democratic government, and suppressed any lingering insurgencies. The war has come to an end. And we won. "

etc. With devastating proof.

Posted by: zombie at November 22, 2016 06:41 PM (jBuUi)

79 Hubby just told me not only Commie/anarchist SIL and BIL are coming, so is his total bitch commie Hillary worshipping shit stirring aunt
Posted by: ThunderB at November 22, 2016 06:28 PM (Gnd/x)

Get a Trump calendar. Buy a hard copy of Art of the Deal and keep it on your coffee table.

Posted by: BourbonChicken at November 22, 2016 06:41 PM (VdICR)

80 Went from christian pastor in Uzbekistan to MILF's in a hot tub in 23 comments.

Posted by: Superman at November 22, 2016 06:25 PM (lKyWE)

Need Christian MILFs in Uzbeki hottubs.

Posted by: Miley, Duchess of the DSR at November 22, 2016 06:42 PM (tHwdc)

81 Yes, the bi partisan shitfuck that was Iraq was disastrous. But it's a
stretch to say the invasion of Iraq in 2004 is a proximate cause of the
rise of a Sunni caliphate centered in Raqqa, Syria in 2014 (or whenever
the "arab spring" began).
---
It probably had more to do with the folks who fomented and funded the Arab Spring.

Which probably wasn't Bush.

Posted by: Methos at November 22, 2016 06:42 PM (3Liv/)

82 MAGA shirts and hats for Thanksgiving Dinner.

Posted by: fixerupper at November 22, 2016 06:42 PM (JmjOe)

83 Holy God -- TODAY IS VI DAY!

I didn't even realize that when I made that comment!!

HAPPY Victory in Iraq Day everyone! A major holiday in the national calendar!

Posted by: zombie at November 22, 2016 06:42 PM (jBuUi)

84 Time to pack it in. BBT Morons

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at November 22, 2016 06:43 PM (mpXpK)

85 79 Hubby just told me not only Commie/anarchist SIL and BIL are coming, so is his total bitch commie Hillary worshipping shit stirring aunt
Posted by: ThunderB at November 22, 2016 06:28 PM (Gnd/x)

++++

Good gravy.

Posted by: washrivergal at November 22, 2016 06:43 PM (CFc5L)

86 Definitely praying for wisdom for Trump and safety for him and those around him.

Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette at November 22, 2016 06:43 PM (GDulk)

87 It probably had more to do with the folks who fomented and funded the Arab Spring.

Which probably wasn't Bush.
Posted by: Methos at November 22, 2016 06:42 PM (3Liv/)

It was the Open Society types, and most likely the US and western governments and our propaganda types.

Because our best and brightest STILL FUCKING THING that the middle east is ripe for turning in to a western-style democracy.

Posted by: Harry Paratestes at November 22, 2016 06:43 PM (cJrMO)

88 THINK*

Posted by: Harry Paratestes at November 22, 2016 06:43 PM (cJrMO)

89 >>Bush's policies followed by Obama's fecklessness. Iraq was stable before Obama started changing everything.

Correct. Imagine how different the world would look right now if Obama had surrendered Iraq and the region and worked with the other US SC members to give Iran nukes, airbuses, weapons and billions of dollars.

Posted by: JackStraw at November 22, 2016 06:43 PM (/tuJf)

90 84 Time to pack it in. BBT Morons
Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at November 22, 2016 06:43 PM (mpXpK)

++++

'Night, Vic.

Posted by: washrivergal at November 22, 2016 06:43 PM (CFc5L)

91 The moonbats in my family died so Thanksgiving is easy peasy.

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at November 22, 2016 06:44 PM (4ErVI)

92 SOOO PMSNBC just advertised on Fox Business Channel & their new slogan is MSNBC "This is who we are" WHAT THE FLYING FUCK DOES EVEN MEAN ??

Posted by: Evilpens at November 22, 2016 06:44 PM (y3aQB)

93 hadn't

Posted by: JackStraw at November 22, 2016 06:44 PM (/tuJf)

94 91 The moonbats in my family died so Thanksgiving is easy peasy.
Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at November 22, 2016 06:44 PM (4ErVI)

+++

Is there more to this story you're not telling us?

Posted by: washrivergal at November 22, 2016 06:45 PM (CFc5L)

95 The post's point (whether the story was true or not) stands.

It's no mystery. Shcharansky and other Soviet dissidents have described how aggressive US confrontation in the Reagan era lifted the spirits of the persecuted. It was very important.

US authority is greatly tattered now due to the Obama years and the unserious populace that gave us the Obama years, but I think even people here would be astonished at the tales of US moral influence around the world, even with regimes where nobody would imagine we had any leverage.

Posted by: rhomboid at November 22, 2016 06:45 PM (QDnY+)

96

I think i will ignore them. Or try to

Posted by: ThunderB at November 22, 2016 06:45 PM (Gnd/x)

97 Hubby just told me not only Commie/anarchist SIL and
BIL are coming, so is his total bitch commie Hillary worshipping shit
stirring aunt

Posted by: ThunderB at November 22, 2016 06:28 PM (Gnd/x)

Time to start saving up passive-aggressive nonsense quotes and fake statistics to amuse yourselves!
I suggest post-it notes tucked into convenient places where you can access them as needed. Much like guns. And ammo.

Posted by: Miley, Duchess of the DSR at November 22, 2016 06:46 PM (tHwdc)

98 Is there more to this story you're not telling us?

Posted by: washrivergal at November 22, 2016 06:45 PM (CFc5L)

LOL!

It was mostly my grandparents on my mother's side. FDR blue collar types. They're both gone now.

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at November 22, 2016 06:46 PM (4ErVI)

99 Leaders lead, it's what they do.

Followers follow, it's what they do.

Obama sucks a lot of dick, it's what he does.

Posted by: Hairyback Guy at November 22, 2016 06:46 PM (4yZcK)

100 Is there more to this story you're not telling us?

Posted by: washrivergal at November 22, 2016 06:45 PM (CFc5L)
Something to do with shovels and quicklime perhaps?

Posted by: Deplorable Old Blue at November 22, 2016 06:46 PM (9iR5/)

101 Sorry, OT but important. I got willowed. From the last thread:

I'll leave this request here with you guys bc you're all so great. One of the Morons and infrequent poster/mostly lurker, Dave, from the yahoo group asked for prayers for his wife. She was just diagnosed with leukemia and the prognosis sounds bleak. Please pray the both of them along with our group. Thanks so much

Posted by: L, Elle at November 22, 2016 06:46 PM (6IPEM)

102 Our perspective here in America is sometimes so limited.

Kept deliberately so by the Media. Remember: the Media is the enemy, always and at all times.

Posted by: BeckoningChasm at November 22, 2016 06:46 PM (MZcWR)

103 92 SOOO PMSNBC just advertised on Fox Business Channel & their new slogan is MSNBC "This is who we are" WHAT THE FLYING FUCK DOES EVEN MEAN ??

Posted by: Evilpens at November 22, 2016 06:44 PM (y3aQB)

Lean forward and I'll show you.

Posted by: Rachel Maddow wearing a strap on at November 22, 2016 06:47 PM (4ErVI)

104 SOOO PMSNBC just advertised on Fox Business Channel their new
slogan is MSNBC "This is who we are" WHAT THE FLYING FUCK DOES EVEN MEAN
??
---
Paul Ryan is on their payroll?

Posted by: Methos at November 22, 2016 06:47 PM (3Liv/)

105
You call them MILFS.

Or, as Paolo calls them, MIDFs.

Posted by: Paolo at November 22, 2016 06:47 PM (JmjOe)

106 It was mostly my grandparents on my mother's side. FDR blue collar types. They're both gone now.
Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at November 22, 2016 06:46 PM (4ErVI)

+++

Oh, okay. But we are a forgiving Horde, just in case.

Posted by: washrivergal at November 22, 2016 06:47 PM (CFc5L)

107 58
Because I believe Trump is just going to improvise his entire Presidency. He doesn't have a solid policy framework or belief system. It just going to be, "Whatever works right now, right here, in this circumstance."
Posted by: zombie at November 22, 2016 06:33 PM (jBuUi)

Keeping adversaries guessing and on their toes has its place.

Posted by: rickl - THE MEDIA IS LYING TO YOU at November 22, 2016 06:47 PM (sdi6R)

108 "Iraq was thrown away, pure and simple."

Yes and no. We shouldn't have gone into Iraq in the first place. Once in, we couldn't leave. If we did leave, Iraq would split and Iran would be emboldened. And I said so in 2003.

The German and Japanese occupations were forced upon us because we prevailed in Total War, and were better outcomes than losing either front.

Posted by: Ignoramus at November 22, 2016 06:47 PM (SIY7D)

109 The moonbats in my family are going to hear it from the other 80 percent.

This will be fun.

Posted by: Mr Aspirin Factory at November 22, 2016 06:48 PM (89T5c)

110 Remember that Bush said we were out of the nation building enterprise? Then 9/11 came along. Making plans about foreign actions can be...risky.

Posted by: rabidfox at November 22, 2016 06:48 PM (EW9tX)

111 Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at November 22, 2016 06:36 PM (4ErVI)
Nicely said. I hope Trump thinks that way for every single policy. How will this help America and her people

Posted by: CaliGirl at November 22, 2016 06:48 PM (Q5Ymk)

112 Posted by: L, Elle at November 22, 2016 06:46 PM (6IPEM)

+++

That is terrible news. Of course I will pray for her and for Dave.

Posted by: washrivergal at November 22, 2016 06:49 PM (CFc5L)

113 >> But there's no hope in straightening out the record.

The record.

Time (magazine) got it right, back in 2003. The Iraq effort needed 400K troopers for occupation. That's the historical metric, based on population and land area, and it was exactly right.

Iraq was a war of choice. If you can't win one of those to a point of complete pacification before the next Congressional election you JUST FUCKING DON'T DO IT.

Please note I didn't say you don't do them. If we don't do those then we don't have Texas, California, or anything in between. But you have to CRUSH them. No incrementalist shit, no 'force protection'. Ten thousand casualties in six months in a solid victory is better than ten thousand casualties in six years of muddle.

But the real question with Iraq is: what was the goal? Was there something there we wanted? I'm absolutely fine with 'take their oil', I'm a hardcore colonialist. But...we don't need it, certainly not now, and if we just wanted to suppress their ability to fuck with us, 'nation building' ain't in the spectrum.

Posted by: JEM at November 22, 2016 06:49 PM (TppKb)

114 Posted by: rickl - THE MEDIA IS LYING TO YOU at November 22, 2016 06:47 PM (sdi6R)
My son tells me it's good to have your enemies worry about your sanity. I can't remember which president our enemies thought was nuts. Nixon?
Or that's what some professor taught him.

Posted by: CaliGirl at November 22, 2016 06:51 PM (Q5Ymk)

115 All the children say, "We don't need another hero
We don't need to know the way home
All we want is life beyond the thunderdome"

Posted by: undocumented SMOD at November 22, 2016 06:52 PM (e8kgV)

116 I supported the Iraq war, seeing it as a bulwark against Iran. The problem became Barky being convinced by Merkle and Hollande that they needed access to Iran's markets to keep their economies going and Barky kissed Merkle's ring. The whole Iran deal was predicted on this .

Posted by: Ben Had at November 22, 2016 06:52 PM (3k5gg)

117 That is terrible news. Of course I will pray for her and for Dave.

Prayers for them both from this red redoubt in a blue sanctuary city in a blue state.

Posted by: Basement Cat at November 22, 2016 06:53 PM (3C9q2)

118 'Because I believe Trump is just going to improvise his entire Presidency.'

That's probably true and that's ok because as a businessman that's what I do every day. I do have some ultimate goals but am focused on getting the job done day to day. Idealisms have nothing to do with it.

Posted by: freaked at November 22, 2016 06:53 PM (BO/km)

119 >>But the real question with Iraq is: what was the goal? Was there something there we wanted? I'm absolutely fine with 'take their oil', I'm a hardcore colonialist. But...we don't need it, certainly not now, and if we just wanted to suppress their ability to fuck with us, 'nation building' ain't in the spectrum.

Force projection. We didn't build our biggest embassy in the world for shits and giggles. The reason was to establish a footprint in one of the most volatile and strategic regions in the world.

We had it, and we gave it away.

Posted by: JackStraw at November 22, 2016 06:53 PM (/tuJf)

120 Everything is still wide open, boy! Wide Open!

Posted by: Charlie Krauthammer's Shoeblack Hair at November 22, 2016 06:53 PM (6uMKl)

121 This is who we are

Meaning we're Leftists and proud of it

Posted by: Skip-hoping Trump at least does random conservative acts at November 22, 2016 06:53 PM (Hh+Gc)

122 Posted by: L, Elle at November 22, 2016 06:46 PM (6IPEM)
Done, L,Elle.

Posted by: CaliGirl at November 22, 2016 06:53 PM (Q5Ymk)

123 Progressive rule book #5: When you think you are knocked out, double down. What do you have to lose.

If you think progressives are going to shrink back, re evaluate and regroup, think again. They are going to crank it up to 11. They will play up the popular vote to a "vast majority of the American people sided with HRC". Trump is other, a fluke of the racist EC voted him in.

Posted by: Cat Ass Trophy at November 22, 2016 06:54 PM (dnWSK)

124
MSNBC "This is who we are"

WHO WE BE!

Posted by: AL SHARPTON at November 22, 2016 06:54 PM (IqV8l)

125 Ugh we are refighting Iraq? I mean i don't mind, just not in the mood tonight. Long frustrating day and all

Posted by: Nevergiveup at November 22, 2016 06:54 PM (dELE3)

126

Trump is already more of a uniter than W ever hoped to be.

Posted by: Mortimer, Finish Her! at November 22, 2016 06:54 PM (zu88C)

127 Posted by: CaliGirl at November 22, 2016 06:51 PM (Q5Ymk)

Apparently tyrants around the world bought into the "Crazy cowboy" image of W. Probably Reagan too.

Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette at November 22, 2016 06:55 PM (GDulk)

128 I don't have any way to watch MSNBC so it's easy to ignore them.

Posted by: freaked at November 22, 2016 06:56 PM (BO/km)

129 >>Ugh we are refighting Iraq? I mean i don't mind, just not in the mood tonight. Long frustrating day and all

Refighting? We have guys on the ground in Mosul right now. You know this.

We haven't stopped fighting in Iraq and we won't be anytime soon.

Posted by: JackStraw at November 22, 2016 06:56 PM (/tuJf)

130 https://tinyurl.com/y5nlr3

Larry(Bad Rug) Sabato & company explaining why the Lied errrrrrrrrrrrr were Wrong

Posted by: Evilpens at November 22, 2016 06:56 PM (y3aQB)

131 Baltimore Felony Conviction Rates Fall Under States Attorney Marilyn Mosby, Meanwhile Crime, Murder Soar

Shes a star alright

Weasel Zippers

Affirmative Action?

Posted by: Nevergiveup at November 22, 2016 06:56 PM (dELE3)

132 Frst Keith Ellison and now:

NARAL chief weighs run for DNC chair
File this under "Snowflakes Can't Learn".

Posted by: Mortimer, Finish Her! at November 22, 2016 06:57 PM (zu88C)

133 The Bush interventions cost many American lives and whole boatloads of cash. We thew that all away when we abandoned iraq. Not just iraq but all the good that we had created. Scew Obama, Hillary and horseface. Fuck them all with a barbed cock. Spit....

Posted by: Usntakim at November 22, 2016 06:57 PM (hMqvx)

134 85 79 Hubby just told me not only Commie/anarchist SIL and BIL are coming, so is his total bitch commie Hillary worshipping shit stirring aunt
Posted by: ThunderB at November 22, 2016 06:28 PM (Gnd/x)

++++

Good gravy.
Posted by: washrivergal
-----------------

Made with pan drippings and Liberal tears? Sounds delish!

Posted by: Chi - #FreeCthulhu at November 22, 2016 06:57 PM (yuzpV)

135 123
They will play up the popular vote to a "vast majority of the American people sided with HRC".
Posted by: Cat Ass Trophy at November 22, 2016 06:54 PM (dnWSK)

Then you hit them with "How many of her votes were illegal or fraudulent?"

Posted by: rickl - THE MEDIA IS LYING TO YOU at November 22, 2016 06:57 PM (sdi6R)

136 Posted by: L, Elle at November 22, 2016 06:46 PM (6IPEM)

Add me to the list.
3 of my friends have been diagnosed with cancer since the first of October.

I'm a busy man.
Bought a snowblower because of my neighbor -- 3 driveways/sidewalks are too much for a guy Vic's age.

Posted by: jwb7605 at November 22, 2016 06:58 PM (DofIg)

137
Refighting? We have guys on the ground in Mosul right now. You know this.

We haven't stopped fighting in Iraq and we won't be anytime soon.
Posted by: JackStraw at November 22, 2016 06:56 PM (/tuJf)

I meant the concept of Bush 2 going in and nation building and all....I know very well who and what we have there now.

Posted by: Nevergiveup at November 22, 2016 06:58 PM (dELE3)

138 >>>Is there more to this story you're not telling us?<<<

Stay away from the green bean casserole.

Posted by: Fritz at November 22, 2016 06:58 PM (6uMKl)

139 HAPPY Victory in Iraq Day everyone! A major holiday in the national calendar!

Posted by: zombie at November 22, 2016 06:42 PM (jBuUi)

Happy VI day, zombie!

Too bad the JEF had to flush it. I remember following a column "Good news from Iraq" throughout Bush's second term, since the MSM never covered anything like that.

Posted by: Miley, Duchess of the DSR at November 22, 2016 06:58 PM (tHwdc)

140 Then you hit them with "How many of her votes were illegal or fraudulent?"

Prove it

Posted by: Cat Ass Trophy at November 22, 2016 06:58 PM (dnWSK)

141 Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette at November 22, 2016 06:55 PM (GDulk)
I think the leftists did as well. Pick one, were they stupid, or evil masterminds.

Posted by: CaliGirl at November 22, 2016 06:58 PM (Q5Ymk)

142 Then you hit them with "How many of her votes were illegal or fraudulent?"

And then you point out that were it not for LA, NYC, and 2 other cities, Trump wins by 3.5 million votes.

Once that has resonated for a moment or two, you can then ask "Don't you think the other cities in this country deserve to have a say in electing the President?".

Posted by: Crusader at November 22, 2016 06:59 PM (ewSN2)

143 Prove it

Posted by: Cat Ass Trophy
==

Why?

Progs never prove anything. Let them prove that 20 million illegals didn't vote.

Posted by: Mortimer, Finish Her! at November 22, 2016 07:00 PM (zu88C)

144 "Then you hit them with "How many of her votes were illegal or fraudulent?"

How about "Too bad for her" and leave it at that?

Posted by: freaked at November 22, 2016 07:00 PM (BO/km)

145 Well. I'll tell you one thing. Two double maple bourbons will eff you (me) up. Yessiir.

Posted by: Eromero at November 22, 2016 07:00 PM (zLDYs)

146
127
Posted by: CaliGirl at November 22, 2016 06:51 PM (Q5Ymk)

Apparently tyrants around the world bought into the "Crazy cowboy" image of W. Probably Reagan too.

Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette at November 22, 2016 06:55 PM (GDulk)

Reagan scared the living shit out of the Soviets at first (which is why the American Left hated his guts). To the point that the Sovs initiated a huge intelligence effort called Operation RYAN specifically to figure out if Reagan was actually willing to entertain a first-use of nukes.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at November 22, 2016 07:00 PM (LuZz8)

147
Smart milblog news. The USS Zumwalt, she is all broke:

news.usni.org/2016/11/22/uss-zumwalt-sidelined-panama

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at November 22, 2016 07:00 PM (kdS6q)

148 142: If they are anything like my loonie step mother they'll answer "No, because they won't vote for their own best interests" or some such nonsense.

Posted by: rabidfox at November 22, 2016 07:01 PM (EW9tX)

149 Iraq taught us a valuable lesson. When we have to go to war, eliminate and destroy the enemy, their infrastructure, and their ability to wage war. Kill all their senior leadership. Then leave.

It ain't 1945 anymore.

Posted by: Hairyback Guy at November 22, 2016 07:01 PM (4yZcK)

150 When you give thanks before the big family dinner, include "May President Trump govern so well that he earns the votes of everyone here."

That ought to create some common ground. Or empty chairs. Either way, looks like a win.

Posted by: Halfwise at November 22, 2016 07:02 PM (rB/gm)

151 We have more oil than Saudi Arabia. We. Have. More. Oil. Than. Saudi. Arabia. Fuck all of them in particular. Except Israel. They are all right.
It is time to glut the market and send them back to sand farming nomads.

Posted by: Cat Ass Trophy at November 22, 2016 07:02 PM (dnWSK)

152 Posted by: IllTemperedCur at November 22, 2016 07:00 PM (LuZz

I knew one of you guys would refresh my memory.

Posted by: CaliGirl at November 22, 2016 07:02 PM (Q5Ymk)

153 Iraq taught us a valuable lesson. When we have to go to war, eliminate
and destroy the enemy, their infrastructure, and their ability to wage
war. Kill all their senior leadership. Then leave.

===

I can't wait for this to applied to the Clinton Cartel.

59 days.

Posted by: Mortimer, Finish Her! at November 22, 2016 07:02 PM (zu88C)

154 "The USS Zumwalt, she is all broke"

Discussed in an earlier thread. Consensus was we'd be far better off retrofitting nuke subs with cruise missiles or getting battleships out of mothballs.

Posted by: Ignoramus at November 22, 2016 07:03 PM (SIY7D)

155 Dave, from the yahoo group asked for prayers for his
wife. She was just diagnosed with leukemia and the prognosis sounds
bleak. Please pray the both of them along with our group. Thanks so much

Posted by: L, Elle at November 22, 2016 06:46 PM (6IPEM)

Prayers up!

Posted by: Miley, Duchess of the DSR at November 22, 2016 07:03 PM (tHwdc)

156 Oregonmuse, that was amazing.

We worked with the underground church in Saudi Arabia. Many were praying for Bush there, as well. And for all you prayer warriors, please don't forget to include the persecuted church. We had friends arrested for singing Christian songs too loudly in their homes. THe Mutawwa would try in infiltrate meetings, so they could arrest pastors, and those who would host worship services. We met at the Embassy, thanks to the Wolf Act, and could "invite" guest to join us. But the mutawwa would go into the parking lot and check the cars/license plates and then follow people from the service to harass them.

We are starting to feel some of that here-to wit, the pastors in Houston being forced to hand over their sermon notes to the mayor. Thankfully that was shut down. But the Left will push. They want Christians and worshipping Jews to go away, because they are a drag, and fun-suckers. Because apparently we think that sex with children is wrong, or killing babies, or starving old people or those in a coma.

So please, pray for that pastor, and so many more-Yazidis, Christians in Syria and Iraq, who are in fear for their lives from the JV squad.

And Happy Thanksgiving early! This year is truly one we should give thanks!!

Posted by: Moki, deplorable mom and sammich maker at November 22, 2016 07:03 PM (VnCI9)

157 On FB today that left wing friend and his friends tried to contend that the left wing scum out in the Dakota Pipeline demo never initiated any violence and were perfect angels...they actually were stupid enough to tell me to prove it but they would not hold their breath since it was impossible? LOL
In 3 minutes I post 3 articles from their sites: NY Times, CNN, and Huffington Post showing just how violent they are...Not a peep of a reply from those assholes

Posted by: Nevergiveup at November 22, 2016 07:03 PM (dELE3)

158 >>Iraq taught us a valuable lesson. When we have to go to war, eliminate and destroy the enemy, their infrastructure, and their ability to wage war. Kill all their senior leadership. Then leave.

We tried that in Afghanistan when we helped the Northern Alliance beat back the Soviets. Didn't work out so well.

Helping stabilize a country isn't nation building.

Posted by: JackStraw at November 22, 2016 07:03 PM (/tuJf)

159 But the real question with Iraq is: what was the goal? Was there something there we wanted? I'm absolutely fine with 'take their oil', I'm a hardcore colonialist. But...we don't need it, certainly not now, and if we just wanted to suppress their ability to fuck with us, 'nation building' ain't in the spectrum. .

The goal was to deny the jihadis their physical and ideological bases and their recruiting grounds, by giving the Middle East an alternative between being hopelessly crushed by secular tyrants or following religious fanatics.

Punitive expeditions due two things 1) they kick the can down the road and 2) teach the enemy how to fight you. Ask the Romans how that worked out...

Posted by: Grey Fox at November 22, 2016 07:04 PM (bZ7mE)

160 "The USS Zumwalt, she is all broke"

Discussed in an earlier thread. Consensus was we'd be far better off retrofitting nuke subs with cruise missiles or getting battleships out of mothballs.
Posted by: Ignoramus at November 22, 2016 07:03 PM (SIY7D)

We are having out Change of Command in The USS Wisconsin next week....Should I kick the tires?

Posted by: Nevergiveup at November 22, 2016 07:04 PM (dELE3)

161 Frst Keith Ellison and now:
NARAL chief weighs run for DNC chair

Any word from the head of NAMBLA?

Posted by: t-bird at November 22, 2016 07:05 PM (9mTYi)

162 Thank you for this slightly wider perspective, OM.

I agree on the whole "world leaders fear / loathe PE Trump" thing too.

A little fear is good for them.

Posted by: the deplorable sock_rat_eez, stay calm and carry on at November 22, 2016 07:05 PM (VmIEt)

163 Posted by: CaliGirl at November 22, 2016 06:58 PM (Q5Ymk)

A benefit of leftism is the ability to hold mutually contradictory opinions without apparent ill effect....as long as being mentally ill doesn't count as "ill effect".

Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette at November 22, 2016 07:05 PM (GDulk)

164 144 "Then you hit them with "How many of her votes were illegal or fraudulent?"

How about "Too bad for her" and leave it at that?
Posted by: freaked at November 22, 2016 07:00 PM (BO/km)

"Too bad they don't live in Pennsylvania and Ohio. "

Posted by: Buzzion at November 22, 2016 07:05 PM (R3md8)

165 Its your burden to get the votes removed if you think they are illegal or fraudulent. And you see what that takes.

Does the final vote tally come out when the electoral college votes are taken?

Posted by: Skip-hoping Trump at least does random conservative acts at November 22, 2016 07:05 PM (Hh+Gc)

166 Ugh. Folks on Dobbs show on FBN glowing over 'magnanimous' decision to let Hillary get away with her life of crime.

Has being magnanimous ever actually generated anything of value?

Is there any reason to believe being nice to the progressives will do so today?

Posted by: Methos at November 22, 2016 07:05 PM (3Liv/)

167 Iraq taught us a valuable lesson.

That our biggest enemy is at home.

Posted by: t-bird at November 22, 2016 07:06 PM (9mTYi)

168 SOOO PMSNBC just advertised on Fox Business Channel their new
slogan is MSNBC "This is who we are" WHAT THE FLYING FUCK DOES EVEN MEAN
??

-
They're coming out of the closet?

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, This Is the Dawning of the Age of the Trumpius! at November 22, 2016 07:06 PM (Nwg0u)

169 Oh, and nowhere in the job description of the President of the U.S. is being loved or admired by other world leaders.

Posted by: the deplorable sock_rat_eez, stay calm and carry on at November 22, 2016 07:06 PM (VmIEt)

170 I think there is no conflict between voting for the better candidate for us, vs the better candidate for the world. If Hillary wins, it will be disaster for everybody all round. Except perhaps for ISIS.

Posted by: Steve and Cold Bear at November 22, 2016 07:06 PM (mBYZv)

171 Tucker Carlson has at least one freak per night. A doofus du jour.

Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at November 22, 2016 07:07 PM (IqV8l)

172 Not a peep of a reply from those assholes
Posted by: Nevergiveup at November 22, 2016 07:03 PM (dELE3)

I read a Washington Examiner article that said basically the same thing, and said the pipeline doesn't even cross Reservation property -- the whole dispute is that the tribe wants money for the oil that will (would?) flow through the pipeline. That's what they are holding out for.

Posted by: jwb7605 at November 22, 2016 07:07 PM (DofIg)

173 Excellent post, OM!

I think that there are many in Africa who truly appreciated all that Bush did for them in stopping AIDS...And then freakin' Obama barges in and demands they implement SSM as if *that's* the biggest challenge in the region.

Posted by: Lizzy at November 22, 2016 07:08 PM (NOIQH)

174 "This is who we are"

'We are the ones we've been waiting for."

Stoner logic.

Posted by: Ignoramus at November 22, 2016 07:08 PM (SIY7D)

175 Saddam was an expansionist. We kept him bottled up in Iran for eight years but as soon as that ended he started looking for another fight.

The time to get rid of him was after the first Gulf War. They should've installed someone in the inner party with clear instructions that should you decide to launch any further Saddamist excursions, we're dropping the big one on Baghdad.

If that had happened, no no fly zones, no endless dithering during the 1990s with the locking on radars and cruise missile strikes, etc. And no second invasion.

But really even if you didn't depose Saddam, you just make it crystal clear his plans for a greater Iraq were over.

I would've sent a guy with a script on a single sheet of paper and a laptop. The laptop is for the video feed showing Saddam and his cronies the nuclear bomb exploding in the desert in Western Iraq. The next one goes to Baghdad. Have a nice day. Oh, and your phone to the western province is going to start ringing.

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at November 22, 2016 07:08 PM (4ErVI)

176 Got an earful from the pontificators in my office today. Trump the warmonger/isolationist is deserting our allies in NATO, thus leaving them unprotected and creating a vacuum for another power to step in.

I desperately wanted to point out that there was a third option -- that perhaps the Europeans could step up?

But I had work to do and remained silent. It's good practice for Thanksgiving.

Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes at November 22, 2016 07:08 PM (EnKk6)

177 SOOO PMSNBC just advertised on Fox Business Channel & their new slogan is MSNBC "This is who we are" WHAT THE FLYING FUCK DOES EVEN MEAN ??
Posted by: Evilpens

They've hired Tom Baker as an anchor.

Posted by: Steve and Cold Bear at November 22, 2016 07:09 PM (mBYZv)

178 Is there any reason to believe being nice to the progressives will do so today?
Posted by: Methos at November 22, 2016 07:05 PM (3Liv/)

Being nice to your enemies always turns them into your friends. Hang on, I'll get some examples.

.

Posted by: Halfwise at November 22, 2016 07:09 PM (rB/gm)

179 We tried that in Afghanistan when we helped the Northern Alliance beat back the Soviets. Didn't work out so well.
Helping stabilize a country isn't nation building.
Posted by: JackStraw at November 22, 2016 07:03 PM (/tuJf)

Yup....Afghanistan is a tough nut but do it 2 or 3 times and by then the problem should self correct.
If anyone is left to try.

Posted by: Hairyback Guy at November 22, 2016 07:09 PM (4yZcK)

180 We have more oil than Saudi Arabia. We. Have. More. Oil. Than. Saudi. Arabia.

Posted by: Cat Ass Trophy at November 22, 2016 07:02 PM (dnWSK)

Right. And I think this is true even before they found those 24 billion barrels of oil down somewhere in Texas.

Posted by: OregonMuse, deplorable since 2004 at November 22, 2016 07:10 PM (TvRzA)

181 "And Happy Thanksgiving early! This year is truly one we should give thanks!!"

This ! To Ace, all the cob-loggers, and to all of the Moron Horde !

Posted by: sock_rat_eez, The U.S. Is Red ! at November 22, 2016 07:11 PM (VmIEt)

182 There's a different leadership problem as well.

I guarantee you that the second Clinton administration would have gone after churches for preaching against homosexual behavior, for failing to perform homosexual 'weddings' and for not having female pastors. They would have gone after every church organization that fights against this, and every organization that didn't have transgender bathrooms. And with the pizza place info, I'm really uncomfortable with the other boundaries they'd try to push next.

We didn't dodge a bullet this time, folks. We dodge a flaming pitchfork.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at November 22, 2016 07:11 PM (39g3+)

183 >>Ugh. Folks on Dobbs show on FBN glowing over 'magnanimous' decision to let Hillary get away with her life of crime.

*sigh*
*shakes head in disgust*

Kinda wonder if this is a bit of stray voltage that gets people talking about what a criminal Hillary is. Not the conversation Hillary wants people to be having about her right now - she's still mourning the loss of a presidency she was owed, dangit!!!
Heh.

Posted by: Lizzy at November 22, 2016 07:11 PM (NOIQH)

184 Memory fails me, but does anyone remember the book about the 5 ladies in Iran that met in secret, and they were sort of the vanguard of the Green movement?

Posted by: Ben Had at November 22, 2016 07:11 PM (3k5gg)

185 I have no idea what is going to happen with Russia. I am thankful and feel much more secure with President Trump in charge instead of that pickled-brained Hildebeast.

Posted by: washrivergal at November 22, 2016 07:11 PM (CFc5L)

186 I just checked my outlook inbox. 17,955. I wonder what the max is?

Posted by: Molly k. at November 22, 2016 07:11 PM (IprBC)

187 Thought provoking. Thanks for sharing this.

As for the never-Trumpers I'm surprised that Erick Erickson has actually been giving him a fair hearing. Little Benji Shapiro is the worst. Right after the election he gloated and enjoyed the liberal freak out while hawking his website and books and has pretty much reverted back to hawking his website and books while tweeting every negative Trump rumor or negative thing he can.

Meanwhile Evan McMuffin has become a favorite for crazy liberal celebrities to retweet as he muses about the racist deplorable R party.

Posted by: AdorableDeplorableChristi at November 22, 2016 07:12 PM (0WFtY)

188 The ironic thing about your footnote is that Samantha Power would agree with it. Or at least the Samantha Power that was touting her book "A Problem From Hell." Not to mention calling Hillary Clinton a monster. I wish someone would ask how it feels being associated with an administration that actively caused or aided so many atrocities.

Posted by: dwinnorcal at November 22, 2016 07:12 PM (+5lVk)

189 I would love to see the burj Kalifa on the auction block when the price of oil drops to less than a gallon of water.

Posted by: Cat Ass Trophy at November 22, 2016 07:12 PM (dnWSK)

190 JackStraw, the big problem/elephant-in-the-room in Afghanistan is Pakistan. We literally fund their half of the war through the transit fees we pay to ship stuff from Karachi up through Afghanistan.

We've continued to fund them to the tune of billions of dollars _after_ discovering they were harboring Osama Bin Laden.

Posted by: Thing From Snowy Mountain, #MakeCarcosaGreatAgain at November 22, 2016 07:12 PM (5OK42)

191
We didn't dodge a bullet this time, folks. We dodge a flaming pitchfork.
Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at November 22, 2016 07:11 PM (39g3+)

Amen and Amen.

I thank God every day that Hilary will never be president.

Posted by: Moki, deplorable mom and sammich maker at November 22, 2016 07:12 PM (VnCI9)

192
What irks me more is NYT says Mr Trump admitted a link between man and global warming.

Posted by: Soothsayer at November 22, 2016 07:12 PM (oVvUa)

193 Ugh. Folks on Dobbs show on FBN glowing over 'magnanimous' decision to let Hillary get away with her life of crime.

===

Just got to give Barry a nice warm feeling about not pardoning her.

Then the hammer drops.

59 days.

DBTP

Posted by: Mortimer, Finish Her! at November 22, 2016 07:13 PM (zu88C)

194
"This is who we are"

"We are who you thought we were"

Posted by: Zombie Dennis Green at November 22, 2016 07:13 PM (lKyWE)

195 the big problem/elephant-in-the-room in Afghanistan is Pakistan. We literally fund their half of the war through the transit fees we pay to ship stuff from Karachi up through Afghanistan.

We've continued to fund them to the tune of billions of dollars _after_ discovering they were harboring Osama Bin Laden.
Posted by: Thing From Snowy Mountain, #MakeCarcosaGreatAgain at November 22, 2016 07:12 PM (5OK42)

Let's be honest the big problem is Islam itself.

Posted by: Nevergiveup at November 22, 2016 07:13 PM (dELE3)

196 149 Iraq taught us a valuable lesson. When we have to go to war, eliminate and destroy the enemy, their infrastructure, and their ability to wage war. Kill all their senior leadership. Then leave.
It ain't 1945 anymore.
Posted by: Hairyback Guy at November 22, 2016 07:01 PM (4yZcK)

The problem with that (IMO) is that's what was done in 1918, which most people think caused 1945.

God forbid it came to that, but the "best" solution might be something similar to what happened to Japan -- we told them what to do, how to do it, and approved their constitution and governing bodies.

Posted by: jwb7605 at November 22, 2016 07:13 PM (DofIg)

197 >> She was just diagnosed with leukemia and the
>> prognosis sounds bleak.

There are MANY forms of leukemia, some move fast, some do not. Not on the yahoogroup at this point so I don't know details, but some family and very personal experience in this, with both kinds.

I'll pray for her, and I'll pray most of all for her will to fight it. Do the research on the specific condition then do everything you can.

Posted by: JEM at November 22, 2016 07:14 PM (TppKb)

198 A quick web search indicates at least two pastors named Andrey have been arrested in Uzbekistan in recent years. Probably more than that, given the regime's history.

I think it likely that this pastor's concern was not only justified but proven out.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at November 22, 2016 07:15 PM (wB8Tg)

199 SOOO PMSNBC just advertised on Fox Business Channel their new
slogan is MSNBC "This is who we are" WHAT THE FLYING FUCK DOES EVEN MEAN
??

-
Tinder ad?

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, This Is the Dawning of the Age of the Trumpius! at November 22, 2016 07:15 PM (Nwg0u)

200 144 "Then you hit them with "How many of her votes were illegal or fraudulent?"
How about "Too bad for her" and leave it at that?
Posted by: freaked at November 22, 2016 07:00 PM (BO/km)

I think I might try "Clinton's lead in the popular vote is irrelevant according to the U.S. Constitution. Please pass the gravy."

Posted by: OregonMuse, deplorable since 2004 at November 22, 2016 07:15 PM (TvRzA)

201 192
What irks me more is NYT says Mr Trump admitted a link between man and global warming.

Posted by: Soothsayer at November 22, 2016 07:12 PM (oVvUa)

Never believe what the NYT says. The dipshits think Steve Bannon is the founder of Breitbart.

Posted by: buzzion at November 22, 2016 07:15 PM (z/Ubi)

202 Libya was more than a dumpster fire IMO.

Posted by: small town girl at November 22, 2016 07:16 PM (ijO9y)

203 >>We have more oil than Saudi Arabia. We. Have. More. Oil. Than. Saudi. Arabia.

We didn't go to Iraq for oil. Obviously. We didn't take it and haven't even won many of the contracts to develop oil.

We are the only super power left in the world. This means something. Our responsibilities go beyond our immediate needs and they include helping maintain geo political stability.

We may not want the role, too bad. It comes with the territory.

Does anyone really think we are battling in Syria with amongst other Russia for oil when Syria doesn't have any oil? Did we take Libya's oil?

The world is a lot more complicated than some are trying to make it out to be.

Posted by: JackStraw at November 22, 2016 07:17 PM (/tuJf)

204 If the popular vote is such a big principle for them, ask them how they feel about Brexit.

Posted by: Halfwise at November 22, 2016 07:17 PM (rB/gm)

205 Hillary I'm afraid is going to prove to be the perfect criminal.

Posted by: Skip-hoping Trump at least does random conservative acts at November 22, 2016 07:17 PM (Hh+Gc)

206 >>Meanwhile Evan McMuffin has become a favorite for crazy liberal
celebrities to retweet as he muses about the racist deplorable R party.

And we also can also look forward to the smug "I told you so's!!" when Trump does something liberal or boneheaded, as if the people who voted Trump over Hillary believed Trump was a true, blue conservative and would deliver on every one of his campaign promises.

Posted by: Lizzy at November 22, 2016 07:17 PM (NOIQH)

207 God forbid it came to that, but the "best" solution might be something similar to what happened to Japan -- we told them what to do, how to do it, and approved their constitution and governing bodies.
Posted by: jwb7605 at November 22, 2016 07:13 PM (DofIg)

The Kaiser retired fat and happy to Flanders if I remeber correctly and the senior leadership of the German Army were not hung from the oaks in the Kaiserplatz.

Go big or stay home.

Posted by: Hairyback Guy at November 22, 2016 07:18 PM (4yZcK)

208 I just checked my outlook inbox. 17,955. I wonder what the max is?
Posted by: Molly k. at November 22, 2016 07:11 PM (IprBC)

Holy crap. And I thought *I* was a pack rat. Do you ever delete *anything*?

Posted by: OregonMuse, deplorable since 2004 at November 22, 2016 07:18 PM (TvRzA)

209 Hey everybody.

A friend at FB just posted he's thinking of trading in his MAGA hat for a "Trigger Warning" hat.

I responded, "do what the commenters at Ace of Spades blog are doing: get a T-shirt that reads in big bold letters, 'HILLARY CLINTON WILL NEVER BE PRESIDENT!!!"

;-)

Posted by: qdpsteve at November 22, 2016 07:18 PM (u8kLQ)

210
What irks me more is NYT says Mr Trump admitted a link between man and global warming. Posted by: Soothsayer at November 22, 2016 07:12 PM (oVvUa)

They're going to try to weaken his base before he takes the oath of office

Posted by: Deplorable Male Logic at November 22, 2016 07:19 PM (lKyWE)

211 We are who you thought we were

Exactly. Exactly that.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at November 22, 2016 07:19 PM (39g3+)

212 >>We've continued to fund them to the tune of billions of dollars _after_ discovering they were harboring Osama Bin Laden.

True. And we will continue to do so under Trump. So the question is why?

Posted by: JackStraw at November 22, 2016 07:19 PM (/tuJf)

213 Hillary I'm afraid is going to prove to be the perfect criminal.

-
I'm predicting Hillary's death before the inauguration. Also, a severe alcohol shortage.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, This Is the Dawning of the Age of the Trumpius! at November 22, 2016 07:20 PM (Nwg0u)

214
NYT says Mr Trump admitted a link between man and global warming.

Which man? Find that guy and whoop him.

Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at November 22, 2016 07:21 PM (IqV8l)

215 "Hillary Clinton will never be president, Allah willing."
Is it racist to admit that sounds much more sinister?

Posted by: wooga at November 22, 2016 07:21 PM (WpKhO)

216 I'll leave this request here with you guys bc you're all so great. One of the Morons and infrequent poster/mostly lurker, Dave, from the yahoo group asked for prayers for his wife. She was just diagnosed with leukemia and the prognosis sounds bleak. Please pray the both of them along with our group. Thanks so much
Posted by: L, Elle at November 22, 2016 06:46 PM (6IPEM)

---

Done L, Elle.

Fuck cancer with a flaming, concertina-wrapped, pineapple grenade.

Posted by: SMFH - #Free Cooth at November 22, 2016 07:22 PM (a9WKV)

217 Times tweets:

Does Trump think human activity is linked to climate change? "I think there is some connectivity. Some, something. It depends on how much."

On climate change, Trump says he is also thinking about "how much it will cost our companies" and the effect on American competitiveness.

****

Funny that the Times went to tweets.

I think what Trump said, in sum, is harmless.

He's trolling them

Posted by: Ignoramus at November 22, 2016 07:22 PM (SIY7D)

218
Keep this in mind:

msnbc's new slogan was decided on months ago with a 'president hillary clinton' in mind.

I guess it was too late to change their slogan to "Oh Shit!" after the election went to Trump.

Posted by: Soothsayer at November 22, 2016 07:23 PM (oVvUa)

219 NYT says Mr Trump admitted a link between man and global warming.

Which man? Find that guy and whoop him.

-
Al Fvcking Gore.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, This Is the Dawning of the Age of the Trumpius! at November 22, 2016 07:23 PM (Nwg0u)

220
I guess it was too late to change their slogan to "Oh Shit!" after the election went to Trump.
Posted by: Soothsayer at November 22, 2016 07:23 PM (oVvUa)

I would suggest "Our goose is cooked" as their new slogan.

Posted by: Deplorable Male Logic at November 22, 2016 07:24 PM (lKyWE)

221 Say you, say me say it for always naturally

Posted by: MSNBC at November 22, 2016 07:25 PM (4ErVI)

222 Yup....Afghanistan is a tough nut but do it 2 or 3 times and by then the problem should self correct.
If anyone is left to try.

Or they have learned how to fight you by that time.

Interesting how so many folks assume that because a cultures wipes their rear with their finger they must therefore be stupid.

Posted by: Grey Fox at November 22, 2016 07:25 PM (bZ7mE)

223
Does Trump think human activity is linked to climate change? "I think there is some connectivity. Some, something. It depends on how much."

This is the shit Trump does that annoys me. He's a crowd-pleaser. He'll say anything if he thinks it'll please the ones he with.

Posted by: Soothsayer at November 22, 2016 07:25 PM (oVvUa)

224 "Hillary Clinton will never be president, inshallah!"

Posted by: Lizzy at November 22, 2016 07:25 PM (NOIQH)

225 The Islamofascist thugs living in a sh*thole thousands of miles away can see what millions of gullible voters can't see: secular lefties like the Clintons are more hostile to Christianity than to Islam. But Hillary arranges a staged encounter with a pastor, who just happens to be reading 1 Co 13, and people think, "I guess she must be a pious Christian".

Posted by: Steve and Cold Bear at November 22, 2016 07:25 PM (mBYZv)

226 I guess it was too late to change their slogan to "Oh Shit!" after the election went to Trump.

-
Or "If we can't have the country, nobody will!"

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, This Is the Dawning of the Age of the Trumpius! at November 22, 2016 07:25 PM (Nwg0u)

227 >> God forbid it came to that, but the "best" solution
>> might be something similar to what happened to
>> Japan -- we told them what to do, how to do it, and
>> approved their constitution and governing bodies.

But first we starved them to death, then we burned them, then we damn near removed a couple of their cities from the map.

If Japan dies off, it may prove to be - from a civilizational standpoint - a pyrrhic victory. We could use a healthy Japan.

Two conditions of succesful nation-building:

a) There has to be a pre-existing civil society.

b) You have to have convinced them that what they're doing now CAN NOT continue.

We did this by blasting them to hell.

The Mongol and Muslim approach was occupation and a whole lot of fucking the dominant racial group into submission.

These days we call that rape, historically it's just conquest.

Okay, I'll stop channeling my inner Hun for a while.

Posted by: JEM at November 22, 2016 07:25 PM (TppKb)

228 I can't even image the trouble Saddam, AQ or the Taliban could've got up to without our direct intervention.

Qaddafi rolled over for us after watching American mechanized divisions rolling through Baghdad. That's proof positive that strenght, backed by resolve, gets stuff done.

Posted by: 13times at November 22, 2016 07:26 PM (WHVu+)

229 Iraq might have been more stable, but you can't build an economy on 7th century dirt farmers. No nation can operate without money, so goes through "Who has the money?"

Posted by: Ben Had at November 22, 2016 07:26 PM (3k5gg)

230 What irks me more is NYT says Mr Trump admitted a link between man and global warming

THIS time they're telling the truth without a narrative or spin, honest!!

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at November 22, 2016 07:26 PM (39g3+)

231 Al Fvcking Gore.
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, This Is the Dawning of the Age of the Trumpius! at November 22, 2016 07:23 PM (Nwg0u)

Can I sue Al Gore yet? Fear mongering bastard.....

Posted by: Hairyback Guy at November 22, 2016 07:27 PM (4yZcK)

232 Rush brought up the Times report Trump was saying global warming was somewhat man made but discounted the report sighting where it came from and to wait until President Trump did something.

Posted by: Skip-hoping Trump at least does random conservative acts at November 22, 2016 07:27 PM (Hh+Gc)

233
I really hope he issues a correction and says he only meant that man can certainly cause environmental disasters and pollution but man cannot change the weather!

Posted by: Soothsayer at November 22, 2016 07:28 PM (oVvUa)

234 Don't forget Japan had already shown a remarkable ability to totally restructure their society. The went from a feudal society to an industrial power in a shockingly small amount of time.

The bad thinking remained of course, but it did show they looked at what the West was doing and said we should do that too.

I'm not surprised it didn't take long to move them in the right direction.

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at November 22, 2016 07:29 PM (4ErVI)

235
This is the shit Trump does that annoys me. He's a crowd-pleaser. He'll say anything if he thinks it'll please the ones he with.
Posted by: Soothsayer at November 22, 2016 07:25 PM (oVvUa)

I think it has more to do with his love for negotiation.He throws stuff out as an opening gambit

Posted by: Deplorable Male Logic at November 22, 2016 07:29 PM (lKyWE)

236 >>We did this by blasting them to hell.

Japan was and remains a pretty small, inwardly focused country. Their religion, and that's what was ruling the country, was limited to Japan.

Iraq wasn't even the biggest Muslim country in the region and the Middle East isn't even the biggest Muslim region in the world.

Not everything is a perfect analogy. If we had gone all Khan on Iraq we would have just inflamed Muslims in the rest of the world.

We'll never know but I will always believe staying there would have produced a much better result than where we are now.

Posted by: JackStraw at November 22, 2016 07:29 PM (/tuJf)

237
I really hope he issues a correction and says he only meant that man can certainly cause environmental disasters and pollution but man cannot change the weather!

And give a For Instance:

For instance, when obama ruined a river in Colorado.

Posted by: Soothsayer at November 22, 2016 07:29 PM (oVvUa)

238 I have always thought Trump is going to buy in some of the Leftists arguments.

Posted by: Skip-hoping Trump at least does random conservative acts at November 22, 2016 07:30 PM (Hh+Gc)

239 Qaddafi rolled over for us after watching American mechanized divisions rolling through Baghdad. That's proof positive that strenght, backed by resolve, gets stuff done.
Posted by: 13times at November 22, 2016 07:26 PM (WHVu+)

---

When 1BCT, 4th ID caught Saddam cowering like a little bitch in his spider-hole (apt), Qaddafi really pissed himself.

Posted by: SMFH - #Free Cooth at November 22, 2016 07:30 PM (a9WKV)

240 What irks me more is NYT says Mr Trump admitted a link between man and global warming

THIS time they're telling the truth without a narrative or spin, honest!!

-
Yeah, boy, they've learned their lesson!

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, This Is the Dawning of the Age of the Trumpius! at November 22, 2016 07:30 PM (Nwg0u)

241 Add me to the list.

3 of my friends have been diagnosed with cancer since the first of October.

I'm a busy man.

Bought a snowblower because of my neighbor -- 3 driveways/sidewalks are too much for a guy Vic's age.

Posted by: jwb7605 at November 22, 2016 06:58 PM (DofIg)

Dear Lord. I lost two within 6 months of each other this past year. Most definitely, including you and your friends in my prayers.

Posted by: Miley, Duchess of the DSR at November 22, 2016 07:30 PM (tHwdc)

242 Crap, too much wine- All policy goes through "Who has the money?"

Posted by: Ben Had at November 22, 2016 07:30 PM (3k5gg)

243
Go to nood

Posted by: Soothsayer at November 22, 2016 07:31 PM (oVvUa)

244 Okay, I'll stop channeling my inner Hun for a while.
Posted by: JEM at November 22, 2016 07:25 PM

---------

I have to do that from time to time...

Hopefully we get mad dog as Secretary of Defense..

Maybe the voices will stop them

Posted by: The guy with the hair at November 22, 2016 07:31 PM (aAlFX)

245 >> We'll never know but I will always believe staying
>> there would have produced a much better result
>> than where we are now.

I didn't say you don't do it. I said you do it thoroughly or you don't do it.

Maybe we couldn't come up with 400K pairs of boots in 2003. But that's what we needed.

Posted by: JEM at November 22, 2016 07:32 PM (TppKb)

246 When 1BCT, 4th ID caught Saddam cowering like a little bitch in his spider-hole (apt), Qaddafi really pissed himself.

-
Now there's an MSNBC slogan! "Like a little bitch!"

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, This Is the Dawning of the Age of the Trumpius! at November 22, 2016 07:33 PM (Nwg0u)

247 "Does Trump think human activity is linked to climate change? "I think there is some connectivity. Some, something. It depends on how much."
"This is the shit Trump does that annoys me. He's a crowd-pleaser. He'll say anything if he thinks it'll please the ones he with."

Human activity releases CO2, which traps heat. e.g., I contribute to global warming every time I breathe.

So it does depend on how much.

Posted by: Ignoramus at November 22, 2016 07:34 PM (SIY7D)

248 Posted by: Soothsayer at November 22, 2016 07:28 PM (oVvUa)

I dunno about changing the weather, but climate "scientists" sure as hell change the history of the weather. Iceland temperature records that showed cooling now show warming in the same time frame.

Defund them all.

Posted by: Halfwise at November 22, 2016 07:34 PM (rB/gm)

249 The Romney thing bothers me more than not going after Hillary. He shouldn't be allowed anywhere near DC. His type is part of the problem.

Posted by: Steve and Cold Bear at November 22, 2016 07:34 PM (mBYZv)

250 Not everything is a perfect analogy. If we had gone all Khan on Iraq we would have just inflamed Muslims in the rest of the world.
We'll never know but I will always believe staying there would have produced a much better result than where we are now.
Posted by: JackStraw at November 22, 2016 07:29 PM (/tuJf)

No need to inflame them, they hate us already. Kill enough of them and they will unflame.

Worked for the japs, it will work for the goat fuckers. But it ain't 1945 anymore.

Posted by: Hairyback Guy at November 22, 2016 07:35 PM (4yZcK)

251 Other thing Rush was saying is the MSM is not going to give the Trump presidency a break. They will be working 24/7 to take down and not give him one credit. They will be working to get rid of him before his term is done or no chance for another.
And as soon as Trump relizes that the better.

Posted by: Skip-hoping Trump at least does random conservative acts at November 22, 2016 07:35 PM (Hh+Gc)

252 >>Maybe we couldn't come up with 400K pairs of boots in 2003. But that's what we needed.

Don't know that that is true either. We won with less. But if we had shown so actual leadership we probably could have held a coalition together.

Hell, we probably could have gotten Iraq to pay for it with their oil. But we didn't even bother trying.

And here we are.

Posted by: JackStraw at November 22, 2016 07:35 PM (/tuJf)

253 I would make stopping Christian persecution in all other countries the number one goal Trump's foreign policy, if I were him and to Hell with anyone who whines about it.

And I would specifically mention that this is backlash for the Muslim conquest of Christian lands from 700 thru 1900 A. D. when I did it.

Then I would say: "I won."

Posted by: Sharkman at November 22, 2016 07:36 PM (DzZ5Z)

254 83 Holy God -- TODAY IS VI DAY!

I didn't even realize that when I made that comment!!

HAPPY Victory in Iraq Day everyone! A major holiday in the national calendar!
Posted by: zombie at November 22, 2016 06:42 PM (jBuUi)

Zombie,

Thank you so much for that post. I've been to your site many times but somehow I never saw that one. Sent it to everyone I know.

Posted by: WinLinBSDAdmin at November 22, 2016 07:47 PM (B11vO)

255 Steady on, Sooth.

No time to go wobbly.

Posted by: Mortimer, Finish Her! at November 22, 2016 07:54 PM (zu88C)

256 Only a fool says that humans have no effect on the climate. That's why we talk about "urban island effect" and complain about the unreliability of weather stations poorly situated in urban areas.

The question isn't "do we have any effect" but "is human activity changing global climate" which is without evidence or scientific support.

Posted by: Christopher R Taylor at November 22, 2016 08:09 PM (39g3+)

257 re: I am not suggesting that we should have military intervention to stop or prevent persecution of Christians as a doctrine of American foreign policy.

Agreed.

re: perhaps there are things we can do with our trade agreements and favored nation status that would be helpful.

Agreed. We as Christians should also look for other options. There are NGOs being formed in order to help/protect Christians in war-torn areas.

www.ordo-militaris.us

Posted by: squeakywheel at November 22, 2016 09:02 PM (5dMqv)

258 Thanks, very much, Oregon Muse. I'm just getting to this story now, severall hours after you posted it. It;s important. Prayers are important. I really think life would have been much. much harder for Christians around the world if an anti Christian regime had been elected again here. God had mercy on us. May we continue to pray and may God continue to have mercy.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at November 22, 2016 09:22 PM (tOcW/)

259 And it is important to keep [raying because God willing. may Hillary never be President. I think people are still working towards that end.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at November 22, 2016 09:23 PM (tOcW/)

260 And it is important to keep praying because God willing. may Hillary never be President. I think people are still working towards that end. she included..

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at November 22, 2016 09:25 PM (tOcW/)

261 Sorry for the double post.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at November 22, 2016 09:26 PM (tOcW/)

262 But Bush's Middle East policies (particularly in regard to Iraq) have resulted in ISIS, and mass persecution and Christian exodus. I'm not sure the Uzbek story counterbalances this.
Posted by: Jason at November 22, 2016 06:09 PM (jgmPg)

Bullshit

Posted by: whatmeworry? at November 22, 2016 10:28 PM (dZGNV)

263 Hubby just told me not only Commie/anarchist SIL and BIL are coming, so
is his total bitch commie Hillary worshipping shit stirring aunt

When they start bitching and moaning about the election just say: "Relax, its not as bad as when the Republicans freed all the Democrats' slaves."

Later if that doesn't shut them up say: "Have you heard that President Trump is offering tax credits to Republicans who point out the people to put in the camps?"

Posted by: An Observation at November 22, 2016 11:44 PM (PBzFs)

264 Great article. Would love to see a list of all countries that are persecuting Christians and how it is being done, numbers of victims, etc.

Really moving.

Posted by: Edmund C. at November 22, 2016 11:59 PM (PUP8K)

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