Byron York: Team Trump Has Made a Mess of Immigration

I agree -- it seems to me this new "softening" is lose-lose. It will antagonize his supporters, while not winning over a single skeptic. After all, Trump lost most people not on policy per se, but based on making a very defensible and sensible policy seem ugly and bigoted. Changing the policy will not fix that. (Having explained the policy smartly the first time, having done his homework and having realized achieving a major shift in the nation's thinking would take some patient explaining, would have been the right way to go.)

Trump's speaking shortly in Florida and we can expect him to make more of a dog's breakfast of the whole issue. While we wait, Here's York-- and no, York is not a #NeverTrumper. I'd say York has been mildly pro-Trump throughout the campaign.

One thing is certain in the current brouhaha over Donald Trump's immigration proposals: the candidate and his top aides are making a mess of things. What is the status of his old proposal to deport all immigrants who are in the United States illegally? After days of Trump and his senior advisers talking about it, the answer is entirely unclear.
The fundamental problem vexing Team Trump is that the deportation proposal was never really clear. Yes, Trump said it often last year, but he also pointedly left it out of many immigration discussions, as well. It went largely unnoticed, for example, that when Trump posted an immigration position paper on his campaign website last year, it had a lot about a border wall and enhanced enforcement — and nothing at all about mass deportations.
Many of the statements from Trump being played in current coverage of the deportation issue date from November 2015. This year — not so much.
Trump has held many, many rallies in which he talked about building the wall — he's talked about it so much that it is now a call-and-response with some audiences. But at the same events he said nothing about deportations.

Back in January, not long before the Iowa caucuses, I interviewed Trump and asked whether the deportation proposal was some sort of bargaining chip, rather than a set policy. This is our exchange:

QUESTION: I read Art of the Deal. And one of the things you write about is you have to be bold, you have to make a splash, you have to attract attention. You've also talked about compromise. There was a time you said there's nothing wrong with compromise — you just ask for about three times what you want, and then you get what you want. So I look at deporting all illegal immigrants. I look at a temporary ban of Muslims coming to the United States. They get a lot of attention. Are they opening positions in a negotiation?
TRUMP: I'm not saying there can't be some give and take, but at some point we have to look at these things. You look at the radical Islamic terrorism and you look at what's going on, we have to take a serious look. There's tremendous hatred. You look at illegal immigration and all that's taking place with respect to illegal immigration, whether it's the crime or the economy, I mean, it affects many different elements. It doesn't mean I'm hard and fast 100 percent, but we to get a lot of what I'm asking for, or we're not going to have a country any more.
QUESTION: So they are opening positions?
TRUMP: They are very strong positions. It doesn't mean you're not going to negotiate a little bit, but I guess there will always be some negotiation. But they are very strong positions, and I would adhere to those positions very strongly. That doesn't mean that at some point we won't talk a little bit about some negotiation. Who wouldn't do that?
What did that mean, precisely? Trump deliberately left that unclear, but he wanted to stress that whatever he did would be strong.

I've said this before, but Trump's attitude is the attitude of the Salesman, where the only thing that matters is to get them to sign on the line which is dotted. It doesn't matter if you've been unclear on terms (or even deceptive); all that can be worked out in lawsuits later. The only thing that matters is saying, promising whatever it takes to get them to sign.

The problem is, it's not just the sale that matters. That might be where you make your commission, but the buyer is expecting delivery of the goods he contracted to buy.

And that's where the problems start.

I was always told "underpromise, overdeliver." I guess Trump kinda takes the opposite position.

It really would have been better if Trump bothered to actually think about these issues before he began shooting his mouth off.

Posted by: Ace at 01:33 PM

Comments

(Jump to bottom of comments)

1 Hate to break the news to Mr. York, but immigration has been a mess for the last thirty years.

Posted by: Qoheleth at August 24, 2016 01:38 PM (iIzG7)

2 A couple of other views that I'm not going to stick around to defend one way or the other.

http://preview.tinyurl.com/j3zz6sf

http://preview.tinyurl.com/h3cq4kp

Posted by: andycanuck at August 24, 2016 01:39 PM (LdMbv)

3 Still better than what the Repub party has to offer, which is what the Dem party has to offer

Posted by: SFGoth at August 24, 2016 01:40 PM (dZ756)

4 Saw him on Hannity last night and he seemed pretty "tough" on immigration...

Posted by: donna at August 24, 2016 01:40 PM (O2RFr)

5 And that's how the fight started.

Posted by: josephistan at August 24, 2016 01:40 PM (7HtZB)

6 >>>Saw him on Hannity last night and he seemed pretty "tough" on immigration...

he may talk tough but if he's now backing off deportations, he's talking tough about actions which are soft.

Posted by: ace at August 24, 2016 01:42 PM (dciA+)

7 And that's how the fight started.
Hold my pickle jar and watch this.

Posted by: andycanuck at August 24, 2016 01:42 PM (LdMbv)

8 I think this flip-flop will be irrelevant.

This election is NOT about issues.

It isn't even about personalities.

It is about symbols.

Hillary symbolizes the corrupt insider, the Beltway class, the hated professional politician.

Trump symbolizes the angry outsider.

That's all there is to it.

Both Trump and Hillary are grotesquely flawed as individuals and in their policies. But people (left and right) will hold their noses on that aspect and vote with their gut for the symbol which resonates with them.

Posted by: zombie at August 24, 2016 01:42 PM (jBuUi)

9 he may talk tough but if he's now backing off deportations, he's talking tough about actions which are soft.

I thought he said last night that deportations had to be done......

Posted by: donna at August 24, 2016 01:43 PM (O2RFr)

10 Both Trump and Hillary are grotesquely flawed as individuals and in their policies. But people (left and right) will hold their noses on that aspect and vote with their gut for the symbol which resonates with them.

I agree...

Posted by: donna at August 24, 2016 01:43 PM (O2RFr)

11 NRO is home of the #nevertrumpers. I've heard York soak numerous times on various shows. I would not ever call him "mildly" against Trump.

Posted by: Marcus T at August 24, 2016 01:43 PM (Ug8ez)

12 Hold my pickle jar and watch this.
............

The ensoftening.

Posted by: wth at August 24, 2016 01:44 PM (HgMAr)

13 I'm waiting to hear what the actual change is if any. Right now it's mainly the press blabbing about it and they have every incentive to make it sound worse than it is.

Posted by: WOPR - Nationalist at August 24, 2016 01:44 PM (Ee2nz)

14 It's almost like Trump is a Manchurian Candidate brought upon the GOP by Bill Clinton, a good chum of Trump's, himself.

It would not surprise me at all to find out Bubba urged Trump to run just to help Hillary win the White House. Because Bubba probably knows firsthand what a complete idiot Trump is, but at the same time, quite persuasive.

Trump is an empty suit. A complete gasbag who is no longer teetering on dotage, but probably in the full throes of dementia. I don't think he remembers his previous stance on immigration. Or the economy. Or foreign affairs. Or the military. Or abortion.

Posted by: MacGruber at August 24, 2016 01:44 PM (sgrzZ)

15 Since we could all use a good laugh, so . . .

Didja see the pictures of Hillzebub on WZ? She wore her bathrobe out in public.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Now With More Je Ne Sais Quoi! at August 24, 2016 01:44 PM (Nwg0u)

16 I thought he said last night that deportations had to be done......

Posted by: donna at August 24, 2016 01:43 PM (O2RFr)

He did.....

Posted by: Velvet Ambition at August 24, 2016 01:44 PM (QPdNE)

17 Are we "actively supporting the Democrats" yet? I don't think I'm on the collaboration distro list...

Posted by: General Zod at August 24, 2016 01:44 PM (Bdeb0)

18
All he had to do was say, "we're going to follow the laws that are already on the books, cut off all government programs to any non-citizen, end sanctuary cities, punish and imprison anyone who hires illegal aliens and immediately find and deport all visa violators. If Truman and Ike can deport 11 million people in 16 years, we can do the same. Humanely, but firmly and legally."

What's so hard about that??

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at August 24, 2016 01:44 PM (9P3OG)

19 It is about symbols.

--

Speaking of which, Nigel Farage is going to appear on stage with Trump.

Posted by: @votermom at August 24, 2016 01:44 PM (Om16U)

20 Is it safe?

Posted by: Grump928(C) says Free Soothie!, with purchase of commenter of equal or greater value at August 24, 2016 01:45 PM (rwI+c)

21 Huh. Maybe Tyson is on to something.

Posted by: FireHorse at August 24, 2016 01:45 PM (EUDLj)

22
In before Joe Hallenback, Redbanzi, and the trolls Danny, Joseph, and Matthew.

Posted by: fixerupper at August 24, 2016 01:45 PM (8XRCm)

23 Immigration on the surface is very simple.

Enforce the existing law. That's an easy sell.

Posted by: Fritz at August 24, 2016 01:45 PM (2Mnv1)

24 Trump's next move: begin wearing upholstered muumuus.

Posted by: Turd Ferguson at August 24, 2016 01:45 PM (VAsIq)

25 This is all BS.

The "flip/flop" is supposed to be "but Mr. Trump, we understood you were going to get jack-booted thugs to round light-brown-colored-people up in the middle of the night, smash a lot of windows and ship the survivors to Mexico in cattlecars."

Why are you backing off on your promises by only shipping the violent felons out in the first week and implementing the existing laws-- a humane legal process--for the rest."

I don't see any light between what Trump said before and what he is saying now. He did say there are a lot of wonderful illegal immigrants, they just shouldn't be in the US.

Posted by: Dirks Strewn at August 24, 2016 01:45 PM (kfcYC)

26 It's still a binary choice come November 8.

Posted by: Seamus Muldoon at August 24, 2016 01:46 PM (wPiJc)

27 I don't see the big deal about this so-called softening.
Of course the criminals get prioritized for deportations. They get arrested for something, papers checked, out they go.

Posted by: @votermom at August 24, 2016 01:46 PM (Om16U)

28 I'm not believing what the news people have to say about Trump anymore. I listen to him when his rallies are covered on TV, but relying on the commenters and writers of the press to not distort what he says is foolish.

Posted by: Soona at August 24, 2016 01:46 PM (Fmupd)

29 Trump's next move: begin wearing upholstered muumuus.

Could counter Hillarys circus pants suits...

Posted by: donna at August 24, 2016 01:46 PM (O2RFr)

30 It really would have been better if Trump bothered to actually think about these issues before he began shooting his mouth off.

Posted by Ace at 01:33 PM

Comments
--
Then he wouldn't have done as well in the primaries.

There are many causes to Trump being our nominee. But at least one of them was caused sui generis by Trump. He recognized that there was a political gap in the Republican party for a staunch anti-illegal immigrant position, and he took it, whole hog.

The GOP shouldn't have ceded that space to him. Whether it was RNC pressure, or donor pressure (or if there is any meaningful distinction between the two), at least one of the other 16 candidates should have been able to occupy the whole "secure the border" space. None did so, even though Jeb! was running with a platform of illegal immigration being an act of love.

Credit where its due -- Trump recognized that there was a customer for his schtick here, and he went after it. Had he taken his time to think about it, and gave a more political response, he would have gone nowhere.

Posted by: Revenant at August 24, 2016 01:46 PM (3DSAh)

31 So how may people did he originally say we would deport, 10 million, 20 million? How many is all of them?

Posted by: Javems at August 24, 2016 01:46 PM (yOqwj)

32 The Egg McMuffin has been eaten. I repeat, the Egg McMuffin has been eaten.

Posted by: #NeverHillary at August 24, 2016 01:46 PM (Liss2)

33 Since we could all use a good laugh, so . . .

Didja see the pictures of Hillzebub on WZ? She wore her bathrobe out in public.
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks

Grams is getting so forgetful lately.

Posted by: rickb223 at August 24, 2016 01:47 PM (19RKp)

34 I'm a little unclear precisely what has changed based on Trumps assed statements. Not hyperbole, actual facts and substantive statements.

It seems to me Trump may be softening the "tone", but the policies goals are still very much the same.

Posted by: Marcus T at August 24, 2016 01:47 PM (Ug8ez)

35 It's the Trump okeydoke and I don't think he is softening what his baseline is or what he intends to implement but is softening his rhetoric.

Regardless, I don't see a scenario or set of circumstances that would prevent me from voting for Trump.

Hillary Clinton is a extinction level event, all things must be viewed through that prism.

Posted by: Kreplach at August 24, 2016 01:47 PM (y7oWs)

36 1. That's getting a lot closer to a subtle movie reference.

2. I hope that Trump isn't falling for the "we would just vote for the Republican *if* trap. I would hope that after Romney no Republican would fall for that trap.

3. That immigration is already a mess is no defense of Trump. He chose to run as a Republican; he didn't have to. Because he chose to run as a Republican, he doesn't get the leeway from the press that a Democratic nominee gets. He has to understand this.

Posted by: Stephen Price Blair at August 24, 2016 01:47 PM (z/ZsK)

37 The Egg McMuffin has been eaten. I repeat, the Egg McMuffin has been eaten.

The tits are calm.

Posted by: rickb223 at August 24, 2016 01:47 PM (19RKp)

38 I was always told "underpromise, overdeliver." I guess Trump kinda takes the opposite position.
Posted by: Ace at 01:33 PM

Me too.

But that's why we're losers and he's banging a model in his private jet.

Posted by: OneEyedJack at August 24, 2016 01:48 PM (kKHcp)

39

I'll pass on this shit.

Have a fine day, good people--it's gorgeous outside.

Posted by: irongrampa at August 24, 2016 01:48 PM (X35Yt)

40 What's so hard about that??

Posted by: J.J. Sefton

It's concrete policy proposals coming out of Trump's mouth?

Posted by: Turd Ferguson at August 24, 2016 01:48 PM (VAsIq)

41 But that's why we're losers and he's banging a model in his private jet.
Posted by: OneEyedJack at August 24, 2016 01:48 PM (kKHcp)

Banging a model? Melania out of the picture now? ;^)

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at August 24, 2016 01:48 PM (6HqlZ)

42 I could have sworn the primaries were over.

I guess not. If we run Trump down enough we can get Marco Rubio on the ballot.

Posted by: *Mikey NTH - Get Your Campaign F.U.D. Fix at the Outrage Outlet! New Shipments Arrive Daily! at August 24, 2016 01:48 PM (hLRSq)

43 IcalledTrump's walkback on immigration months ago but it gives me no satisfaction.I want Hillary defeated; hence, I don't wantTrump to lose. But this? This was a losing move, a loser move.

Trump's newly hired and very highly paid staffers and consultants seem to be retards.

Posted by: troyriser at August 24, 2016 01:48 PM (OGbEB)

44 The tits are calm.

The tits are sagging..

Hillary's secret service

Posted by: donna at August 24, 2016 01:49 PM (O2RFr)

45 zombie @ 8 -

Excellent points. And in it all Hillary Clinton is the conservative, in the literal sense.

Posted by: FireHorse at August 24, 2016 01:49 PM (EUDLj)

46 What's so hard about that??
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at August 24, 2016 01:44 PM (9P3OG)

I thought he was always a little soft on the deportations. At one point wasn't it something like criminals gone and the good ones already here have to reapply or something like that?

If he just stops the bleeding without jacking up legal and H1B immigration, it will be an improvement.

MacGruber, stop with the stupid conspiracy theory. If it's true then the GOPe didn't deserve to survive anyways. It's not true because it's too stupid to work.

Posted by: WOPR - Nationalist at August 24, 2016 01:49 PM (Ee2nz)

47 Look you can either vote for Trump or Mrs Lying Pooppy Pants Parkinson's Precursor.

Posted by: Marcus T at August 24, 2016 01:49 PM (Ug8ez)

48 Also, Ace, this election, perhaps more than any previous election, is ONLY about negatives.

Trump and Hillary are historical #1 and #2 as far as negativity ratings from voters, more than any other previous presidential candidates -- even losing candidates.

The winner of this election will be the person who racks up the second-highest number of negative memes during the campaign.

So instead of sitting here worriedly keeping tabs on all the negatives our guy is racking up (which is inevitable), we should take his negative-accumulation as a given and instead cause the other candidate to rack up even more.

Remember Monty Python's "Upper Class Twit" hundred-yard dash? That's what 2016 is like. Of COURSE your guy is going to stumble constantly. So you just hope the other runner stumbles MORE.

Posted by: zombie at August 24, 2016 01:49 PM (jBuUi)

49 23 Immigration on the surface is very simple.
Enforce the existing law. That's an easy sell.
Posted by: Fritz at August 24, 2016 01:45 PM (2Mnv1)

That's pretty much what I heard Trump tell Hannity.
I think the "nuance" part is getting ICE and (to a lesser degree) Border Patrol to do their job and make good judgement calls.

Posted by: jwb7605 at August 24, 2016 01:49 PM (DofIg)

50 Perhaps before some people jump off the cliff while preforming Hari Kari, we might want to wait for some facts first? perish the thought

Posted by: Nevergiveup at August 24, 2016 01:49 PM (Ozsfq)

51 Well, the Art of the Deal requires that Trump win before the Deal can be completed. I'll give him a lot of elbow room now. When he gets to the WH, not so much.

Posted by: Puddin Head at August 24, 2016 01:49 PM (oDCMR)

52
http://tinyurl.com/jheukbs

Wow. What yuuuuuuuge a flip flopper.

Perspective.

Its whats for dinner.

Posted by: fixerupper at August 24, 2016 01:50 PM (8XRCm)

53 I may be down baby, but I ain't out !!!

Posted by: ScoggDog's Fifty Dollars at August 24, 2016 01:50 PM (qoKAm)

54 Lying then, or lying now?

Posted by: Mr. Peebles at August 24, 2016 01:51 PM (iLoHX)

55
I've heard York soak numerous times on various shows.
Posted by: Marcus T at August 24, 2016 01:43 PM

Are you saying he's all wet?

Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at August 24, 2016 01:51 PM (IqV8l)

56 Well, you can't usually get much done if you have an uncompromising attitude.

I think most people support him not on his immigration views but on his border views.

We want the border secure, not sure why we're suddenly being portrayed as immigration hawks. That seems like a distortion.

Posted by: Max Power at August 24, 2016 01:51 PM (q177U)

57 Or maybe he's angling for what Arkansas did. Start enforcing existing laws, punish employers for flouting the law and protecting employers that followed it. Most of the illegals understood what was going on and left.

No sound bites, no cheap stunts, no cute images.

Posted by: Blue Hen at August 24, 2016 01:51 PM (326rv)

58 21 Huh. Maybe Tyson is on to something.
Posted by: FireHorse at August 24, 2016 01:45 PM (EUDLj)

I told you - Lazarus puthy is powerfulth shit!

Posted by: Mike Tyson at August 24, 2016 01:52 PM (7HtZB)

59 I thought he said last night that deportations had to be done.

It is very hard to follow an election like this with a candidate like Trump. One trick the media likes to play on the non-engaged voter is to report a policy shift that never happened, then report that the candidate is backtracking a few days later to cover for that obvious fact that the candidate is still pushing the old policy.

An off-the-cuff candidate makes it easier for the press to pull this trick. I don't think that being a spontaneous candidate is a bad thing, but the candidate has to be aware of the tricks that the media uses.

Posted by: Stephen Price Blair at August 24, 2016 01:52 PM (z/ZsK)

60 Or maybe we could wait to see what he actually does?

Ah, who am I kidding? We have to spin, spin, spin our emotions like a weathervane in a cyclone.

And that F.U.D. isn't going to spread itself, you know.

Posted by: *Mikey NTH - Get Your Campaign F.U.D. Fix at the Outrage Outlet! New Shipments Arrive Daily! at August 24, 2016 01:52 PM (hLRSq)

61 I think the "nuance" part is getting ICE and (to a lesser degree) Border Patrol to do their job and make good judgement calls.

All he has to do is point to the border and say, "Your job. Do. It.",
and then stand back and let them.

Posted by: rickb223 at August 24, 2016 01:52 PM (19RKp)

62 The tits are sagging..

Hillary's secret service
Posted by: donna at August 24, 2016 01:49 PM (O2RFr)

-----

Peckerwrecker is on the move.

Repeat.

Peckerwrecker is on the move.

Posted by: fixerupper at August 24, 2016 01:52 PM (8XRCm)

63 >>> Since we could all use a good laugh, so . . .
Didja see the pictures of Hillzebub on WZ? She wore her bathrobe out in public. Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks

Willowed from last thread:

Just taunting us now.

Will the media and fashion bloggers attempt to spin the Bond villain upholstery outfits as the chicest classist thing ever a la Michelle? If they don't do they get slammed for improper lack of deferment?

Kobiyashi Maru scenario.

Posted by: LizLem at August 24, 2016 01:52 PM (hvf9s)

64 "I've said this before, but Trump's attitude is the attitude of the Salesman, where the only thing that matters is to get them to sign on the line which is dotted. It doesn't matter if you've been unclear on terms (or even deceptive); all that can be worked out in lawsuits later. The only thing that matters is saying, promising whatever it takes to get them to sign."

Yeah, that's why Trump had the mothers of children killed by illegals on stage last night at his Austin rally.

One of the mothers held up her son's ashes and said, "So if any of you still feel that compassion for illegal families not being separated, this is all I have left of my family -- his ashes. The ashes of my son. I have no family left, and the only one who will protect you, your family, and future generations is our next president, Mr. Donald J. Trump."

Posted by: #NeverHillary at August 24, 2016 01:53 PM (Liss2)

65 Picture of Hills on Drudge looking eerily like Baron Harkonnen.

Posted by: wth at August 24, 2016 01:53 PM (HgMAr)

66 61 I think the "nuance" part is getting ICE and (to a lesser degree) Border Patrol to do their job and make good judgement calls.

From what I hear they do want to do their job...

Posted by: donna at August 24, 2016 01:53 PM (O2RFr)

67 Ah. So it's one of these threads. I'll just show my way out.

Posted by: Independent George (or the commenter formally known as Serenity Now!) at August 24, 2016 01:54 PM (BDZWU)

68 If you like your deportations, you can keep your deportations.

To think that we still give a shit about the truthiness of Donald Trump while watching the beautiful People worship the lies of JEF and empress mommom is a bit much.

Posted by: Blue Hen at August 24, 2016 01:54 PM (326rv)

69 Posted by: LizLem at August 24, 2016 01:52 PM (hvf9s)

That is some weird outfit. Could she have found some black legging to go under the bathrobe? the bottoms don't even match

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at August 24, 2016 01:54 PM (6HqlZ)

70 It's the election season. Candidates talk, because it's all they can do.

Nothing like what actually happens in the 4 years that they hold position. If they can get 10% of what they promised done, that's pretty good.

Whose 10% would you rather see in 4 years, Hildebeest's or Trump's?

Posted by: haggis at August 24, 2016 01:54 PM (urKNz)

71 Ah. So it's one of these threads. I'll just show my way out.
Posted by: Independent George (or the commenter formally known as Serenity Now!) at August 24, 2016 01:54 PM (BDZWU)

2nd or 3rd in 24 hours.

Posted by: Nevergiveup at August 24, 2016 01:54 PM (Ozsfq)

72 Compost reporting that Egg McMuffin backers have folded.

Posted by: #NeverHillary at August 24, 2016 01:54 PM (Liss2)

73 Hillary symbolizes the corrupt insider, the Beltway class, the hated professional politician.

The amazing thing, some people have internalized that, want to hear no more about it, and she's their presidential pick no matter what.

A video of Huma running the 'pay for policy' transactions on a Visa machine and writing out the receipts as 'for favorable government treatment of the undersigned by Hillary Clinton and the Department of State' wouldn't sway them a bit.

For all of Trump's myriad faults, he's not a member of the Beltway Establishment.

Hell, he's not really much of a member of any Establishment.

And, funny thing, I remember when being part of the Establishment wasn't a good thing, especially to the Boomer types (of whose age cohort I fall into).

This is getting really creepy.

Posted by: Sort-of-Mad Max at August 24, 2016 01:54 PM (nd1zx)

74 All he has to do is point to the border and say, "Your job. Do. It.",
and then stand back and let them.
Posted by: rickb223 at August 24, 2016 01:52 PM (19RKp)

Not quite that simple.
The "leadership" (of ICE, primarily) will have to be replaced first. They're the ones implementing current policies -- of their own volition.

Posted by: jwb7605 at August 24, 2016 01:55 PM (DofIg)

75 The tits are sagging..

Peckerwrecker is on the move.

Sperm count is low.

Posted by: wth at August 24, 2016 01:55 PM (HgMAr)

76 >>> One of the mothers held up her son's ashes and said, "So if any of you still feel that compassion for illegal families not being separated, this is all I have left of my family -- his ashes. The ashes of my son. I have no family left, and the only one who will protect you, your family, and future generations is our next president, Mr. Donald J. Trump."

Posted by: #NeverHillary at August 24, 2016 01:53 PM (Liss2)

That was a really powerful moment and statement. MSM will bury it as much as they can, but that was great.

Posted by: LizLem at August 24, 2016 01:55 PM (hvf9s)

77 Get Kelly Anne Conway off the damn tv carousel and tv screens and off the airwaves period. She is a nightmare. She is either terrible or being terrible on purpose.

Posted by: The Death Rattle of Western Civilization at August 24, 2016 01:55 PM (SXmvw)

78 Trump has taken many positions so he won't be targeted in the general. e.g. repeal ObamaCare, but we can't let people die in the streets.

He knows he's about to get hit by Hillaryland as a racist. It's their last card, after calling him unfit for the office, not to be trusted with the nuclear codes.

This is just battle space prep.

What's unacceptable is continuing the presumption that Illegals somehow have a right to be here, and all that flows from that -- citizenship, benefits, etc. I haven't seen Trump back off that.

Posted by: Ignoramus at August 24, 2016 01:55 PM (r1fLd)

79 74 All he has to do is point to the border and say, "Your job. Do. It.",
and then stand back and let them.
Posted by: rickb223 at August 24, 2016 01:52 PM (19RKp)

Not quite that simple.
The "leadership" (of ICE, primarily) will have to be replaced first. They're the ones implementing current policies -- of their own volition.
Posted by: jwb7605 at August 24, 2016 01:55 PM (DofIg)

You're fired.

Trust me. Trump knows how to say that.

Posted by: rickb223 at August 24, 2016 01:56 PM (19RKp)

80 The "leadership" (of ICE, primarily) will have to be replaced first. They're the ones implementing current policies -- of their own volition.
Posted by: jwb7605 at August 24, 2016 01:55 PM (DofIg)

You're fired.

Trust me. Trump knows how to say that.
Posted by: rickb223 at August 24, 2016 01:56 PM (19RKp)

-----

Im betting the first 100 days of a Trump Presidency will be...... volitile.

Posted by: fixerupper at August 24, 2016 01:57 PM (8XRCm)

81 I was always told "underpromise, overdeliver." I guess Trump kinda takes the opposite position.
=====================

Negotiation. Ask for three times or five times what you will agree to accept.

Sales and negotiation are two different things.

Most politicians are selling when they campaign. He's not. He is negotiating. He assumes the sale is made.

Posted by: simplemind at August 24, 2016 01:57 PM (xVRrG)

82 "I was always told "underpromise, overdeliver." I guess Trump kinda takes the opposite position."

Underpromise, overdeliver went out of fashion in the business world at least two generations ago.

Posted by: Emmett Milbarge at August 24, 2016 01:57 PM (nFdGS)

83 Im betting the first 100 days of a Trump Presidency will be...... volitile.

The entire State dept., DOJ, IRS and EPA need to be fired...

Posted by: donna at August 24, 2016 01:58 PM (O2RFr)

84 >>> That is some weird outfit. Could she have found some black legging to go under the bathrobe? the bottoms don't even match
Posted by: FenelonSpoke at August 24, 2016 01:54 PM (6HqlZ)

And the shoes! If you wear a crazy pattern in your outfit you don't wear a mismatched pattern in your shoes too. An old coworker of mine was like this, no clue how to mix/match patterns properly. Painful outfits.

Posted by: LizLem at August 24, 2016 01:58 PM (hvf9s)

85 And the shoes! If you wear a crazy pattern in your outfit you don't wear a mismatched pattern in your shoes too. An old coworker of mine was like this, no clue how to mix/match patterns properly. Painful outfits.

Looks like She dressed Herself...

Posted by: donna at August 24, 2016 01:58 PM (O2RFr)

86 I didn't notice the shoes. I'll go back and look.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at August 24, 2016 01:59 PM (6HqlZ)

87 83 Im betting the first 100 days of a Trump Presidency will be...... volitile.

--

I want it to be like a coup.

Posted by: @votermom at August 24, 2016 01:59 PM (Om16U)

88 Looks like She dressed Herself...
Posted by: donna at August 24, 2016 01:58 PM (O2RFr)

------

sooooooooooo........ not gay???

Im so confused now.

Posted by: fixerupper at August 24, 2016 01:59 PM (8XRCm)

89 For all of Trump's myriad faults, he's not a member of the Beltway Establishment.

Sometimes I think a little jiujitsu on his part could turn some of his negatives into positives. Something on the order of "I can control the beltway establishment because I own them. I bought them, just like my critics say."

Then sometimes I think it would make it worse.

Posted by: Stephen Price Blair at August 24, 2016 01:59 PM (z/ZsK)

90 Underpromise, overdeliver went out of fashion in the business world at least two generations ago.

Posted by: Emmett Milbarge
________

I'd suspected this. Now, overpromising seems to be the guiding principle, and when the guy in your company can't deliver, it's his problem.

Posted by: FireHorse at August 24, 2016 01:59 PM (EUDLj)

91 83 Im betting the first 100 days of a Trump Presidency will be...... volitile.
The entire State dept., DOJ, IRS and EPA need to be fired...
Posted by: donna at August 24, 2016 01:58 PM (O2RFr)

The phrase "shutting the government down" will take on a completely fresh perspective if he gets elected.

And that's a good thing.

Posted by: jwb7605 at August 24, 2016 01:59 PM (DofIg)

92 Hillz's next fashion choice.

http://tinyurl.com/zr5w6jw

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Now With More Je Ne Sais Quoi! at August 24, 2016 01:59 PM (Nwg0u)

93 Underpromise, overdeliver went out of fashion in the business world at least two generations ago.

Posted by: Emmett Milbarge at August 24, 2016 01:57 PM (nFdGS)

There is nothing more tiresome than corporate embrace of the latest management trend or leadership style or developmental methodology. They're like old ladies at Macy's lining up for a look at the new Fall line.

Posted by: troyriser at August 24, 2016 02:00 PM (OGbEB)

94 Meanwhile, the #NeverTrumpers are in denial that their boy Egg McMuffin has missed enough ballet deadlines that he has been mathematically eliminated from the race:

His team did not see it that way. "We have not exhausted all of our ballot access methodologies yet," McMullin strategist Rick Wilson said in a short interview. "We're suing in Texas, and we’re told by legal experts that legal victory in one state could have effects in other states."

Yeah, choke on it, Wilson, you RINO establishment shill. If this were a just world, you'd be servicing glory holes at some interstate rest stop.

Posted by: OregonMuse at August 24, 2016 02:00 PM (GXgiy)

95 Posted by: donna at August 24, 2016 01:58 PM (O2RFr)

Yep; Terrible shoes. I generally don't care about fashion and am not a clothes horse but the woman is worth millions. I dress better than she does.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at August 24, 2016 02:00 PM (6HqlZ)

96 And the shoes!
.............

It's not our fault. Bitch is crazy.

Posted by: Hillary!s feet at August 24, 2016 02:01 PM (HgMAr)

97 Hillary is a walking oven mitt.

Posted by: Lincolntf at August 24, 2016 02:01 PM (2cS/G)

98 Still voting for him, because he is the only thing between us and Hillary. There won't be a 2020 worth seeing if she is elected.

Although I did laugh when McMuffin's dreams came to a screeching halt.

Posted by: Wyatt Earp at August 24, 2016 02:01 PM (kFnmp)

99
The tits are slapping the knees!

Repeat!

The tits are slapping the knees!.

Coming your way.

Posted by: Hillary!'s Secret Service Detail at August 24, 2016 02:01 PM (0cMkb)

100
We've spent $750 billion on endless wars in Afghanistan and Donald Trump flip-flops?

/s

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at August 24, 2016 02:01 PM (9P3OG)

101 Yeah, I said "ballet deadlines." What's your point?

Posted by: OregonMuse at August 24, 2016 02:01 PM (GXgiy)

102 Hillary is a walking oven mitt.

Hey! I'm right here!

Posted by: Mitt Romney at August 24, 2016 02:01 PM (kFnmp)

103 "We have not exhausted all of our ballot access methodologies yet," McMullin strategist Rick Wilson said

There's a guy with fire in his belly. Prattling on about access methodologies.

The GOP can't die fast enough.

Posted by: Blue Hen at August 24, 2016 02:02 PM (326rv)

104 Trump is a unpredictable loose cannon. Hillary is an evil lying destroyer of the Country. I hate my choices but everyday Hillary makes the choice more obvious.

Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck at August 24, 2016 02:02 PM (YYoIi)

105 97 Hillary is a walking oven mitt.
Posted by: Lincolntf at August 24, 2016 02:01 PM (2cS/G)

So that explains Romney's weird jaw movement when he speaks . . .

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at August 24, 2016 02:02 PM (9P3OG)

106 It's almost as if Trump is running a scam campaign without a competent organization and was never serious candidate to begin with. Nah... magical thinking will save us in November. Everything will fall into place because derp, derp, Brexit was a surprise and totally relevant to US presidential elections.

Posted by: Naes at August 24, 2016 02:02 PM (Ypc8j)

107 And Rick Wilson can suck it until he gags.

Posted by: OregonMuse at August 24, 2016 02:02 PM (GXgiy)

108 87 83 Im betting the first 100 days of a Trump Presidency will be...... volitile.

--

I want it to be like a coup.
Posted by: @votermom at August 24, 2016 01:59 PM (Om16U)

------------------

I want the wailing and gnashing of teeth to be so loud in DC that I can hear it clearly here in OK.

Posted by: Soona at August 24, 2016 02:02 PM (Fmupd)

109 With the shakeups in his campaign team, there was bound to be some changes in his message. Even though a lot of people on the right, and on this blog, want all of the illegals expelled, the most likely outcome for the immigration issue was always going to be something more pragmatic. (And make no mistake, I know that is going to get me flamed and piss off those who won't be happy with anything less than throwing them out. Oh well...)

Posted by: Mr Macca Bean at August 24, 2016 02:02 PM (4ng05)

110 I've said this before, but Trump's attitude is the attitude of the Salesman,

You've said it? Boss, I did an entire post on it!

Heh. Well, you're right anyway.

Posted by: Weirddave at August 24, 2016 02:02 PM (N8hFs)

111 This just reinforces my thought that he is and always has been in it as a spoiler for H. His aim is to be such an awful candidate that, despite all of the horrible things that come out about H, she still seems like the only sane choice. Every time a new shitty thing comes up about H, Trump does something to suck the air out of the news cycle.

H is proved to be running a pay-to-play scheme while SOS, Trump flops on immigration. News cycle buried.

Posted by: A Blinkin at August 24, 2016 02:02 PM (dnWSK)

112 >>>71 Ah. So it's one of these threads. I'll just show my way out.
Posted by: Independent George (or the commenter formally known as Serenity Now!) at August 24, 2016 01:54 PM (BDZWU)

2nd or 3rd in 24 hours.
Posted by: Nevergiveup

...

do you feel #Triggered when people talk about the news in a way that doesn't validate you?

Posted by: ace at August 24, 2016 02:03 PM (dciA+)

113 What is it with one namers? A virus?

Posted by: Nevergiveup at August 24, 2016 02:03 PM (Ozsfq)

114
There is nothing more tiresome than corporate embrace of the latest management trend or leadership style or developmental methodology.

Who cheesed my move?

Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at August 24, 2016 02:03 PM (IqV8l)

115 Hannity got him to say "softening", so now he has to talk of his big hands, and "no problem". ha

But really, he should have left out softening and just said, he always said "compassion", no dragging into camps. Obey the laws, will have to go back (at some point).

Get them ALL ID's first, no voting, but temp legal status. Then ratchet up the e-verify, including for nannies and lawn guys.

His speech on this can clarify, put him ahead. Or keep things muddied ... we'll see. Just don't say "self deport" ... say "incentivize the law" in contrast to open border law breaking Hillary.

Posted by: illiniwek at August 24, 2016 02:03 PM (l6e0e)

116 108 I want it to be like a coup.
Posted by: @votermom at August 24, 2016 01:59 PM (Om16U)

Coup-Lite. Everything you always wanted in a Coup. But less.

"Junta-Junta Burning Love."

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at August 24, 2016 02:03 PM (9P3OG)

117 When Hillary was on with Chris Wallace he got her to show her hand on wanting to appoint SCOTUS judges to overturn decisions like Heller and Citizens United, which we knew. But she went on to say that if Congress didn't give her comprehensive immigration reform (read "amnesty") she'd do it by executive order and then get it upheld with a new SCOTUS appointment. Holy separation of powers Batman!

But let's keeping shitting on Trump.

Ace, you've been wrong on Trump every step of the way for over a year now.

Posted by: Ignoramus at August 24, 2016 02:03 PM (r1fLd)

118 The tits are slapping the knees!.

And the countersign: "The Depends are nearly full."

Posted by: OregonMuse at August 24, 2016 02:04 PM (GXgiy)

119 106 It's almost as if Trump is running a scam campaign without a competent organization and was never serious candidate to begin with. Nah... magical thinking will save us in November. Everything will fall into place because derp, derp, Brexit was a surprise and totally relevant to US presidential elections.
Posted by: Naes

You need better training. When you say "derp derp," that's a classic "tell" that you are a left-wing activist, but it's a term only progressives use. They should train you to correctly use conservative lingo when posing as a conservative. FAIL.

Posted by: zombie at August 24, 2016 02:04 PM (jBuUi)

120 Can someone tell me what promise he made and now how he's changing it?

Thanks.

Oh, and no "impressions" and I want to see quotes not media spin.

Posted by: dagny at August 24, 2016 02:04 PM (eSQgj)

121 An old coworker of mine was like this, no clue how to mix/match patterns properly.

I am absolutely positive that some sort of Garanimals for Adults would make a fortune.

Let's see ... match the beer mugs ... yep, these go together !!!

Posted by: ScoggDog at August 24, 2016 02:04 PM (qoKAm)

122 -- I would adhere to those positions very strongly. That doesn't mean that at some point we won't talk a little bit about some negotiation. --

Negotiation is just dandy when the subject is who will provide the seats for the new stadium. It's inappropriate when the subject is the enforcement of an existing law that's being violated blatantly and en masse.

Posted by: Francis W. Porretto at August 24, 2016 02:04 PM (mj4NC)

123 do you feel #Triggered when people talk about the news in a way that doesn't validate you?
Posted by: ace at August 24, 2016 02:03 PM (dciA+)

??? I am not even sure what you mean by that, if it is directed at me, but I prefer to wait for some facts rather than rumor or innuendo? But hey that's just me

Posted by: Nevergiveup at August 24, 2016 02:04 PM (Ozsfq)

124 Yeah, choke on it, Wilson, you RINO establishment shill. If this were a just world, you'd be servicing glory holes at some interstate rest stop.

Posted by: OregonMuse at August 24, 2016 02:00 PM (GXgiy)

Do not compare honest, hard-working people to the likes of thatRick Wilson, honey. DO. NOT.

Posted by: Sharique, Truckstop Tranny at August 24, 2016 02:04 PM (OGbEB)

125 Sigh.....

The media and the other 17 Rep primary candidates and the 3 Democrat candidates all spent a lot of time and effort repeating like parrots that Trump saying he wanted to build a wall and that GASP, Mexico was not sending us their best, we were getting rapists and murders, was racist and anti immigration and cruel and not "who we are" and anti Latino and on and on.

The story grew like a mushroom in a pile of bullshit. Soon, Trump was going to create a goon squad to come and pull Mexicans out of their hiding places in the shadows of America, and send them all back to Mexico. That meme was continued after the primaries as the media continues to try to prop up Hillary and the DNC.

So now, when Trump says in answer to a set up question." Mr. Trump, what would you do about an illegal who has lived here for 20 years, is working and paying taxes" and Trump says that that situation would have to be looked at in context.

So now the media and the never trumpers run like a gaggle of geese honking to the world that Trump is softening his position on immigration. Hoping it pisses of Trump supporters and as Rush just said, to do what, vote for Hillary? Stay home?

There isn't a thinking Trump supporter out there who doesn't understand that immigration and border security HAVE to be prioritized. Deporting gang members and serial rapists who are illegal is far higher on the priority list than Juan who has a lawn mowing business for two decades by using the fake SS number he bought when he arrived here.

Who is the bigger threat?

Meanwhile, back at the Clinton Foundation.....

Posted by: Jen the original at August 24, 2016 02:05 PM (aSpG0)

126 ompost reporting that Egg McMuffin backers have folded.

Posted by: #NeverHillary at August 24, 2016 01:54 PM (Liss2)

Time for Bill "Baldrick" Kristol to come up with another cunning plan.

Posted by: *Mikey NTH - Get Your Campaign F.U.D. Fix at the Outrage Outlet! New Shipments Arrive Daily! at August 24, 2016 02:05 PM (hLRSq)

127 Perhaps before some people jump off the cliff while preforming Hari Kari, we might want to wait for some facts first? perish the thought

--

I'm with NGU here. I'm certainly not going to be influenced by anything the MFM says. I saw Trump on Hannity last night. Just 5 minutes, mind you, but he didn't show any signs of going wobbly. Time will tell, but I'm not gonna set my hair on fire just yet.

Posted by: Lady in Black - Death to the Man Bun at August 24, 2016 02:05 PM (+FSld)

128 Any solution will have to lean towards self deportations except for clear cut criminals. If done right you don't even need a wall. Just take away the incentives like employment opportunities and easy benefits. Slowly boil the frog back to Mexico. The Elián González moments blasted each day in the MSM will kill any more aggressive approach. I don't recall midnight ICE raids for resettlement in the South being a Trump policy.

And keep in mind, the goal is vote suppression now among Hillary and #nevertrumpers. From the MSM to the paid trolls push the fear and doubt to 11. We need to have some spine. Be frickin Americans not euro cheese eaters. There is no alternative now so why all the hysterics? Save that for after Nov. 8 if required.

Posted by: Keith one name but not a paid troll at August 24, 2016 02:05 PM (nFB1w)

129 That is some weird outfit.
..............

The latest in Kevlar comfort wear.

Posted by: wth at August 24, 2016 02:05 PM (HgMAr)

130
H is proved to be running a pay-to-play scheme while SOS, Trump flops on immigration. News cycle buried.
Posted by: A Blinkin at August 24, 2016 02:02 PM (dnWSK)

Except he hasn't flopped

Posted by: Flawless Male Logic at August 24, 2016 02:05 PM (lKyWE)

131 There is nothing more tiresome than corporate embrace of the latest management trend or leadership style or developmental methodology.

Posted by: troyriser
________

"We're TQM, SPC, Six Sigma and ISO 9002!"

"Yeah, great, but all I want is a Denver Broncos hat. Do you have one?"

Posted by: FireHorse at August 24, 2016 02:06 PM (EUDLj)

132 113 What is it with one namers? A virus?
Posted by: Nevergiveup

It's called "Media Matter paid troll invasion."

They are so catastrophically ineffective, it's comical. It really seems they have NO IDEA what the purpose of their trolling is, or what reaction they're trying to elicit. None of what they do is useful for their side.

Posted by: zombie at August 24, 2016 02:06 PM (jBuUi)

133 117
But let's keeping shitting on Trump.

Ace, you've been wrong on Trump every step of the way for over a year now.

Posted by: Ignoramus at August 24, 2016 02:03 PM (r1fLd)

Here's where the problem lies. Those who support Mr. Trump blindly do not recognize his flaws and cast serious aspersions on those who do.

Why is it a crime to point them out, possibly in the hopes that he or his team will take heed?

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at August 24, 2016 02:06 PM (9P3OG)

134 Nah... magical thinking will save us in November.

Magical Thinking has been on the ballet every 4 years since like, forever.

What politician is going to solve our domestic problems, let alone the international ones? Especially while George Soros and his brah's continues to undermine the foundations at every turn.

Posted by: simplemind at August 24, 2016 02:07 PM (xVRrG)

135 Eh. I think people are smart enough to figure things out.

The hard line in the sand is building the Wall. There can be no waffling there.

Automatically deport anyone illegally in the country convicted of a crime greater than a routine traffic violation.

Increase the size, scope, and authority of the US Border Patrol.

Posted by: mrp at August 24, 2016 02:07 PM (JBggj)

136 Meh.

I watched the Townhall last night. Wall, check. Enforce laws, check. Prioritize deportation of violent criminals and gangs, check.

He didn't mention boxcars, lassos and roundups, or jackboots, though.

I think I'll make it through the day without need of a fainting couch.

Posted by: Wonk with Pigtails at August 24, 2016 02:07 PM (0sLvz)

137 the most likely outcome for the immigration issue was always going to be something more pragmatic

I want the law to be followed, and conversely that if politicians are unwilling to enforce the law, then change it and take the heat for what happens.

Our current policy is to encourage people to break the law and discourage them from following it. That's a very bad course for a free country.

Posted by: Stephen Price Blair at August 24, 2016 02:07 PM (z/ZsK)

138 "Get Kelly Anne Conway off the damn tv carousel and tv screens and off
the airwaves period. She is a nightmare. She is either terrible or being
terrible on purpose."

Has she managed to top the spectacle of Trump spokesbint Katrina Pierson blaming the death of CAPT Khan on Obama? When Khan had been killed in combat in... 2005? While Obama was an obscure backbencher in the Illinois state legislature?

This stuff. It is not that hard, this stuff. It's actually pretty basic and easy stuff when you think about it. What's wrong with Team Trump that they can't do the stuff?

Posted by: torquewrench at August 24, 2016 02:07 PM (noWW6)

139 18
All he had to do was say, "we're going to follow the laws that are already on the books, cut off all government programs to any non-citizen, end sanctuary cities, punish and imprison anyone who hires illegal aliens and immediately find and deport all visa violators. If Truman and Ike can deport 11 million people in 16 years, we can do the same. Humanely, but firmly and legally."

I've seen him on this several times and he never said anything about backing off, just being humane.

What's so hard about that??

Posted by: J.J. Sefton

Posted by: Dirks Strewn at August 24, 2016 02:07 PM (kfcYC)

140 My sense is that Trump supporters would tolerate a path to citizenship if the border were secured and illegal gang-bangers deported.

But then since I talk like Niel deGrasse Tyson, I may be full of shit.

Posted by: Cooldawg at August 24, 2016 02:07 PM (PzZXH)

141 Rick Wilson and Bagdad Bob separated at birth

Posted by: Velvet Ambition at August 24, 2016 02:08 PM (QPdNE)

142 Except he hasn't flopped
Posted by: Flawless Male Logic at August 24, 2016 02:05 PM (lKyWE)

Sure he has.
ALL the news outlets are calling it a flip-flop.
And I've read it on the internet!

... so it MUST be true ...

Posted by: jwb7605 at August 24, 2016 02:08 PM (DofIg)

143 I'm going to vote for him because I'm neverHillary# - but for chrissake, why this pattern of: have a good week, say sensible things and then - promptly step on your dick. He did that after the RNC convention, and he's doing it now. Does Trump really want to be president or not?

Posted by: Donna and V. (sans ampersands at the present time) at August 24, 2016 02:08 PM (u0lmX)

144 " I saw Trump on Hannity last night. Just 5 minutes, mind you, but he didn't show any signs of going wobbly"

Nope. Not gone wobbly but that won't stop the perpetually wrong pundit class from sucking the media's dick.

Posted by: #NeverHillary at August 24, 2016 02:08 PM (Liss2)

145 Mr. Trump, what would you do about an illegal who has lived here for 20 years, is working and paying taxes"?

A: The same thing the Feds did to the sailor that took pictures of a sub engine room, AFTER ingnoring what empress mommom did.

NFQ.

Posted by: Blue Hen at August 24, 2016 02:08 PM (326rv)

146 Y'all are right about democrats having internalized being a democrat. It is part of what they are, and can't be changed barring an epiphany of some sort.

They will vote for the democrat. Any democrat. No matter how bad.

I've likened both sides to sports fans waving big blue and red foam fingers, with all the hatred for the "other" that sports fans have for rivals, but democrats take it to a new level.

Republicans like to think of themselves as superior to this or that, so we get #NeverTrumpers and the like, and that could depress turnout. Not enough to scuttle the election, but enough that winning the independents and undecideds becomes critical.

Messaging and Image are all that will sway those bag-of-hammers, so Trump needs to focus down to Powerful and Positive going into the home stretch. He can scatter-shot the negatives about Hellary, the more that sinks into the "brains" of the undecideds the better.

Still a crap-shoot, IMO.
In fact it's still a crap shoot, no matter where one shoots.

Posted by: OneEyedJack at August 24, 2016 02:08 PM (kKHcp)

147 Trump has tried to run his campaign on the cheap. It worked in the primaries because of a number of reasons that will never be repeated . Unfortunately the lack of organization and ground game is catching up with him and having him always on the defense and reactive instead of proactive. Even so it's still a coin flip.

STROKE 2016

Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck at August 24, 2016 02:08 PM (YYoIi)

148 It strikes me that the smart way to push better enforcement of immigration laws would be to target companies employing them, rather than immigrants themselves. Yeah, these companies have plenty of political power to exercise in their own defense, but as far as pitching to the general public, going after cheating corporations seems an easier sell, that mostly side-steps the "breaking up poor families" argument. A wall is just a rhetorically simple concept to describe, so it makes for a good (depending on the audience) political soundbite, that communicates easily.

I'm sure that has it's own downsides I haven't thought through, but going after corporations is better optics in politics, while walls, fairly or not, will make people think of Soviet authoritarianism.

Posted by: reform highlander at August 24, 2016 02:09 PM (jCH/T)

149
Back in the old days before Trump this was called the normal track back towards the center.

Posted by: Flawless Male Logic at August 24, 2016 02:09 PM (lKyWE)

150 The GOP can't die fast enough.
----------------
No shit.

Posted by: Puddin Head at August 24, 2016 02:09 PM (oDCMR)

151 >>> "Get Kelly Anne Conway off the damn tv carousel and tv screens and off the airwaves period. She is a nightmare. She is either terrible or being
terrible on purpose."

She seemed fine to me last week, on fire even, what has she done now?

Posted by: LizLem at August 24, 2016 02:09 PM (hvf9s)

152 I believe Trump is softening his tone, but let me throw this out there. Who are the media and Democrats-- by reporting this as a "flip-flop"--actually targeting? Are they trying to entice the most rabid anti-immigrant Trump supporters to vote for Hillary?

Posted by: JoeF. at August 24, 2016 02:09 PM (N3q6s)

153 I want the law to be followed, and conversely that if politicians are unwilling to enforce the law, then change it and take the heat for what happens.

Our current policy is to encourage people to break the law and discourage them from following it. That's a very bad course for a free country.
Posted by: Stephen Price Blair at August 24, 2016 02:07 PM (z/ZsK)

I think everyone would like the law to be followed, but after decades of political and social enabling, it probably is not going to be handled by flipping a switch.

Posted by: Mr Macca Bean at August 24, 2016 02:09 PM (4ng05)

154 143 I'm going to vote for him because I'm neverHillary# - but for chrissake, why this pattern of: have a good week, say sensible things and then - promptly step on your dick. He did that after the RNC convention, and he's doing it now. Does Trump really want to be president or not?
Posted by: Donna and V.

Don't fall for it.

Every single thing you read in the media about trump is a ginned up fake narrative.

The MS is gaslighting you, and you're falling for it. Stop being so naive.

Posted by: zombie at August 24, 2016 02:09 PM (jBuUi)

155 139 18
All he had to do was say, "we're going to follow the laws that are already on the books, cut off all government programs to any non-citizen, end sanctuary cities, punish and imprison anyone who hires illegal aliens and immediately find and deport all visa violators. If Truman and Ike can deport 11 million people in 16 years, we can do the same. Humanely, but firmly and legally."

I've seen him on this several times and he never said anything about backing off, just being humane.

What's so hard about that??

139 18
All he had to do was say, "we're going to follow the laws that are already on the books, cut off all government programs to any non-citizen, end sanctuary cities, punish and imprison anyone who hires illegal aliens and immediately find and deport all visa violators. If Truman and Ike can deport 11 million people in 16 years, we can do the same. Humanely, but firmly and legally."

I've seen him on this several times and he never said anything about backing off, just being humane.

What's so hard about that??

Posted by: J.J. Sefton

Posted by Dirks Strewn

Sorry JJ my "I've seen him on this several times and he never said anything about backing off, just being humane."

remark was put in the middle of your comment before your name, making it look like you said it.

Sorry about that.

Posted by: Dirks Strewn at August 24, 2016 02:10 PM (kfcYC)

156 In the end you can vote for Trump or The Hag. Your choice.

And yes, not voting is a choice

The rest is click bait

Posted by: Marcus T at August 24, 2016 02:10 PM (Ug8ez)

157 Seems like Ace has been reading the renowned Moorish scholar Ibn Sayyin. . .

Posted by: Dafyd at August 24, 2016 02:10 PM (O7kBk)

158
My sense is that Trump supporters would tolerate a path to citizenship if the border were secured and illegal gang-bangers deported.

Yeah, we've heard that promise before. And before that. And before that.

Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at August 24, 2016 02:10 PM (IqV8l)

159 139 What's so hard about that??

Posted by: J.J. Sefton
Posted by: Dirks Strewn at August 24, 2016 02:07 PM (kfcYC)

Nothing in and of itself. It's just that being humane, to me, is a given. We're not shipping masses of people off in cattle cars while whipping them onto the trains.

Law and order. Meh, maybe I'm arguing about semantics and tone. But we keep ceding the language and narrative to the Left and I want that to end.

Trump does dazzle with that in his speeches and then he sort of backs off when talking to the media.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at August 24, 2016 02:10 PM (9P3OG)

160 "My sense is that Trump supporters would tolerate a path to citizenship if the border were secured and illegal gang-bangers deported."

I wouldn't. Illegal is illegal same with their spawn. That's just moving the time bomb up the road.

That's what Reagan's capitulation got us.

Trump is no fool. No point in cleaning up the mess if you leave behind the perpetrators.

Posted by: #NeverHillary at August 24, 2016 02:10 PM (Liss2)

161 ALL the news outlets are calling it a flip-flop.
And I've read it on the internet!

... so it MUST be true ...
Posted by: jwb7605 at August 24, 2016 02:08 PM (DofIg)

----

Yes... its twue, its twue!!!

Posted by: Bawbawa Wawters at August 24, 2016 02:11 PM (8XRCm)

162 Magical Thinking has been on the ballet every 4 years since like, forever.

I'm reading Ambrose Bierce right now. The first chapter was incomprehensible, but the chapter on the "Tamtonians", while trite, shows that people had the same complaints back when he was writing that they do today.

Posted by: Stephen Price Blair at August 24, 2016 02:11 PM (z/ZsK)

163 Increase the size, scope, and authority of the US Border Patrol.
Posted by: mrp at August 24, 2016 02:07 PM (JBggj)

Size - check.
Scope - check.

Authority -- an issue.
Once (with a big if) he gets into office, politicians on both sides of the aisle would be looking for "impeachable offenses".

Posted by: jwb7605 at August 24, 2016 02:11 PM (DofIg)

164 Well, political campaigns are all about promises, not delivery. If we cared about delivery, we'd choose candidates who had an actual history of doing the things that we wanted done, instead of candidates who promise "change" or whatever.

One thing I told my daughter is that time is how you tell the difference between someone who is just saying things and someone who actually means it. Don't get too serious too fast. That's just asking for heartbreak.

I could add: don't nominate people for President who don't have an actual political record you can evaluate them by. If we learned anything from Obama, it should have been that words are cheap.

Posted by: JohnJ at August 24, 2016 02:11 PM (TF/YA)

165 There is nothing more tiresome than corporate embrace of the latest management trend or leadership style or developmental methodology. They're like old ladies at Macy's lining up for a look at the new Fall line.

Posted by: troyriser at August 24, 2016 02:00 PM (OGbEB)

Amen to that, brother.

I got "retired" earlier than I had wanted, but all of that corporate bullshit I absolutely DO. NOT. miss.

Posted by: OregonMuse at August 24, 2016 02:12 PM (GXgiy)

166 Yeah, choke on it, Wilson, you RINO establishment shill. If this were a just world, you'd be servicing glory holes at some interstate rest stop.

So make his hobby a career? So many fail trying to do that.

Posted by: Grump928(c) says Free Soothie! at August 24, 2016 02:12 PM (evdj2)

167 143 I'm going to vote for him because I'm neverHillary# - but for chrissake, why this pattern of: have a good week, say sensible things and then - promptly step on your dick. He did that after the RNC convention, and he's doing it now. Does Trump really want to be president or not?

Everything he says is under a microscope for those looking to take him down including the MSM to media circus--whatever is found. Many of his dick steppings were not, and would not have been for most candidates. I don't get the impression this was either. Ginning up Eore dispair out of what...? Few have reached the honest but not political 47% Romney gaff, at best binders full of women. Trump would have to retreat fully like Hillary to avoid having a bad week.

Posted by: Keith one name but not a paid troll at August 24, 2016 02:12 PM (nFB1w)

168 The MS is gaslighting you, and you're falling for it. Stop being so naive.

Posted by: zombie at August 24, 2016 02:09 PM (jBuUi)

You mean they are being like those evil salesman?

Posted by: Velvet Ambition at August 24, 2016 02:12 PM (QPdNE)

169 There is nothing more tiresome than corporate embrace of the latest management trend or leadership style or developmental methodology. They're like old ladies at Macy's lining up for a look at the new Fall line.

Posted by: troyriser at August 24, 2016 02:00 PM (OGbEB)

Amen to that, brother.

I got "retired" earlier than I had wanted, but all of that corporate bullshit I absolutely DO. NOT. miss.
Posted by: OregonMuse at August 24, 2016 02:12 PM (GXgiy)

Seven heathy habits refresher for you! Stat.

Posted by: Mr Macca Bean at August 24, 2016 02:13 PM (4ng05)

170 152 Who are the media and Democrats-- by reporting this as a "flip-flop"--actually targeting? Are they trying to entice the most rabid anti-immigrant Trump supporters to vote for Hillary?
Posted by: JoeF

They are using an ancient playbook which states that the best strategy is to make your opponents "demoralized" by thinking they're going to lose.

They aren't trying to make anyone switch votes to Hillary -- they're trying to make Trump voters stay vote because he "disappointed" them.

But that strategy is completely wrongheaded and counterproductive.

In the modern world, and especially this election, the more frustrated you make someone feel, the more angry they get. And if Trump's supporters are tricked into thinking that they're behind in the race, then they will redouble their efforts to overtake Hillary.

95% of what goes on in modern negative-campaigning is foolish, counter-productive and self-destructive.

Posted by: zombie at August 24, 2016 02:13 PM (jBuUi)

171 The rest is click bait>>>

Lights dynamite fuse and hands the stick to Fishing Warden.

Posted by: Just the punchline at August 24, 2016 02:13 PM (wrS2o)

172 Meh. Put me in the un-swayed category concerning Trump. Hillary is an utterly corrupt, treasonous sociopath.

The punditry seem to be only interested in criticizing Trump. Trump is flawed but, at this point, I don't care. What alternative is there to Hillary! that could win the general election?

Posted by: Retired Buckeye Cop is now an engineer at August 24, 2016 02:13 PM (YQ4mh)

173 Don't fall for it.

Every single thing you read in the media about trump is a ginned up fake narrative.

The MS is gaslighting you, and you're falling for it. Stop being so naive.Posted by: zombie at August 24, 2016 02:09 PM (jBuUi)

********
THIS^^^^^
Notice how the stories of his immigration backtrack are suppositions, all msm, all to repel his early supporter, all without direct quotes, all bs

Posted by: dagny at August 24, 2016 02:14 PM (eSQgj)

174 112 >>>71 Ah. So it's one of these threads. I'll just show my way out.
Posted by: Independent George (or the commenter formally known as Serenity Now!) at August 24, 2016 01:54 PM (BDZWU)

2nd or 3rd in 24 hours.
Posted by: Nevergiveup

...

do you feel #Triggered when people talk about the news in a way that doesn't validate you?
Posted by: ace at August 24, 2016 02:03 PM (dciA+)
===

I'm unsure who this is directed at. But speaking for myself, I'm not one who gets triggered by anything. It's just that these type of threads have a tendency to have an argument break out which I don't personally want to be involved in.

Posted by: Independent George (or the commenter formally known as Serenity Now!) at August 24, 2016 02:14 PM (BDZWU)

175 "We have not exhausted all of our ballot access methodologies yet," McMullin strategist Rick Wilson said. "We have to prioritize confluencing the litigation strategy to synergize our core competencies. By which I mean hitting up the donors for big bucks in exchange for a pie-in-the-sky last ditch effort to milk 2016 for all of the money my bank account can Hoover up." Wilson then mopped his brow and said "I may have said a little too much under the influence of all of that blow."

(I may have added a little to this.)

Posted by: *Mikey NTH - Get Your Campaign F.U.D. Fix at the Outrage Outlet! New Shipments Arrive Daily! at August 24, 2016 02:14 PM (hLRSq)

176 Seven heathy habits refresher for you! Stat.
Posted by: Mr Macca Bean at August 24, 2016 02:13 PM (4ng05)

-----

SHARPEN THE SAW!!!!!

Posted by: fixerupper at August 24, 2016 02:14 PM (8XRCm)

177 they're trying to make Trump voters stay vote
=
they're trying to make Trump voters stay HOME

Posted by: zombie at August 24, 2016 02:14 PM (jBuUi)

178 Trump is what Trump is, the key is NEVER HILLARY. I expect Trump to be fired 4 years from now, unless he's impeached before his term expires. Trump waffles or tries to alibi what he does when elected, he'll find out just how fast his voters will denounce and turn on him.

Posted by: Locke Common at August 24, 2016 02:14 PM (I6Am+)

179
Rush defending Trump right now.

For what it's worth.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at August 24, 2016 02:14 PM (9P3OG)

180 The Hag hasn't given a press conference or answered unscripted interviews in over two years.

But you know, we'll hang on every syllable of what Trump states.

The only reason The Hag is consistently terrible, is because she is never asked a question the press hasn't fed her an answer to. They are never curious about half of the lies or inconsistencies.

But yeah, let's keep going on about Trump and how he flip flopped while th Hag slithers from one place to another between old lady naps and Depends changes.

Posted by: Marcus T at August 24, 2016 02:14 PM (Ug8ez)

181 They are using an ancient playbook which states that the best strategy is to make your opponents "demoralized" by thinking they're going to lose.

=======================

The greatest general wins victory without even having a battle.

Posted by: Sun Tsu at August 24, 2016 02:15 PM (C6xeQ)

182 Once (with a big if) he gets into office, politicians on both sides of the aisle would be looking for "impeachable offenses".

I've always said that, but IF Trump wins, his popularity will probably soar. After all, all the people bashful about supporting him in public can come out of the shadows. If the GOPe and the Democrats look like they are trying to take him out on TRUMPed up charges, they will sink even lower in public perception.

Posted by: JoeF. at August 24, 2016 02:15 PM (N3q6s)

183 The left also figured out that there were a lot of people not put off by controlling immigration, that they love the idea, so now they're spinning it from the other side.

Posted by: dagny at August 24, 2016 02:16 PM (eSQgj)

184 34 I'm a little unclear precisely what has changed based on Trumps assed statements. Not hyperbole, actual facts and substantive statements.

It seems to me Trump may be softening the "tone", but the policies goals are still very much the same.

Posted by: Marcus T

That's my read. You can build a wall and deport them all, but you don't have to come across like you're enjoying it or doing it harshly.

What's wrong with having a sympathetic tone?, the content is exactly the same.

I'm surprised at how people who should know better believe the spin put out by the press, and I'm pleased at the number of commenters who aren't buying it.

I suppose Mr. Trump is now backtracking on his claim that all Mexicans are drug-dealing rapists--something he never said or implied.

Posted by: Dirks Strewn at August 24, 2016 02:16 PM (kfcYC)

185 Trump waffles or tries to alibi what he does when elected, he'll find out just how fast his voters will denounce and turn on him.
Posted by: Locke Common at August 24, 2016 02:14 PM (I6Am+)

------

Yeah.... but we all know that Hillary will be under the same scrutiny from her supporters.

Right??

Posted by: fixerupper at August 24, 2016 02:16 PM (8XRCm)

186 From the ONT
551 Looks like Kellyanne Conway the super women pollster and pro amnasty Immigration transnational progressive best friends of Bush and former team Rubio during the Sea Island secret meetings to take out trump is behind the shiving from with to Trump.
Just like the bootlicker she is taking orders from her GOPe masters of getting close to Trump to shiv him to take him out.
Posted by: The Death Rattle of Western Civilization at August 24, 2016 02:44 AM

Perhaps sparked by this at the Treehouse
http://tinyurl.com/hmd7czz

Posted by: Lurking Cloak Back On at August 24, 2016 02:16 PM (EOB66)

187
Meanwhile, I'm hearing to soundbites from his Austin rally yesterday and he still sounds damn good.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at August 24, 2016 02:16 PM (9P3OG)

188 I could add: don't nominate people for President who don't have an actual political record you can evaluate them by. If we learned anything from Obama, it should have been that words are cheap.

If we evaluated politicians by their record, I'd have quit voting 30 years ago.

Posted by: rickb223 at August 24, 2016 02:17 PM (19RKp)

189 I don't trust what Democrat enabling Pravda Press American style says about Trump nor the never Trumpers and I'm not even a cheerleader on the Trump bandwagon, Just can't stand Hillary.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at August 24, 2016 02:17 PM (6HqlZ)

190 Trump is like the Broncos last season. A lot of stupid mistakes.

Denver went into OT against the Browns, for crying out loud - got the ball first, and Peyton threw a pick. At that point, no one was saying the Broncos would win the Super Bowl.

But, you know.

Posted by: FireHorse at August 24, 2016 02:17 PM (EUDLj)

191
Meanwhile, having just heard him talking about Black America, I am loving the message.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at August 24, 2016 02:18 PM (9P3OG)

192 It actually is possible to make a huge dent in the population of illegals by promising to deport only the ones who have provably committed crimes other than unauthorized entry to the country. And then staunchly sticking with that agreement to the letter.

Not least because the illegal-alien population is rife with certain types of easily proven crime, types that aren't generally recognized or talked about by the D.C. elite.

Exhibit A: EITC tax fraud.

Posted by: torquewrench at August 24, 2016 02:18 PM (noWW6)

193 95 Posted by: donna at August 24, 2016 01:58 PM (O2RFr)

Yep; Terrible shoes. I generally don't care about fashion and am not a clothes horse but the woman is worth millions. I dress better than she does.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at August 24, 2016 02:00 PM (6HqlZ)

It makes me wonder if she is being dressed by a gay guy who is secretly a Trump supporter. I can see a Milo type gay man recommending these hideous outfits ("Darling! That's YOU!!) and then struggling to contain his amazement and laughter when she says, "Oh yes, that's lovely and it will hide my hips. Please order it!"

Hillary's gay fashion consultant, whispering into his phone, "Bruce, darling, you won't believe it! Remember that horrible green outfit we laughed about for hours yesterday, saying it would make Hillary look like a walking Christmas tree? Bruce - she ordered it! For the debates!"

Posted by: Donna and V. (sans ampersands at the present time) at August 24, 2016 02:18 PM (u0lmX)

194 178 Trump is what Trump is, the key is NEVER HILLARY. I expect Trump to be fired 4 years from now, unless he's impeached before his term expires. Trump waffles or tries to alibi what he does when elected, he'll find out just how fast his voters will denounce and turn on him.
Posted by: Locke Common at August 24, 2016 02:14 PM (I6Am+)

Exactly.
I highlighted the part I've been predicting in "casual conversations" for a few months with friends.
The upside to that is that it would pretty much shake up the occupants of Congress in the next couple elections -- which also needs to happen.

Posted by: jwb7605 at August 24, 2016 02:19 PM (DofIg)

195 it is fascinating how a nonsense story spun by wapo, based on a meeting
that they did not attend is now making the rounds and grown into an
alleged policy position; as fascinating as a claim that building a
wall, kicking out visa over-stayers, and following our very tough
immigration laws is somehow a low hanging fruit and "softening". if you ask people who live in the fly over country about trump's immigration policy they will tell you - "build a wall".

Posted by: runner at August 24, 2016 02:19 PM (c6/9Q)

196 Unfortunately the lack of organization and ground game is catching up with him and having him always on the defense and reactive instead of proactive. Even so it's still a coin flip.

STROKE 2016
Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck at August 24, 2016 02:08 PM (YYoIi)

Will you please explain what "lack of a ground game" actually is? For heaven's sake, the guys went to fricking TEXAS yesterday, met with the Border Patrol, held two very well attended rallies and then held a town hall hosted by Hannity.

He's on every news channel, is talked about by every late night tv host, is covered by my local news EVERY DAY , has at least half a dozen facebook entries every day, not to mention tweets, You tube livestreams and videos of all of his rallies. I get a phone call from him EVERY DAY.

He's in Florida today, then tonight he's in Mississippi, tomorrow he's in New Hampshire.
Pence is in NC for two events today, then he is in Va on Saturday.

Are you saying because he doesn't have people knocking on doors in August, that no one knows who he is?

Posted by: Jen the original at August 24, 2016 02:19 PM (aSpG0)

197 They are using an ancient playbook which states that the best strategy is to make your opponents "demoralized" by thinking they're going to lose.

=======================

The greatest general wins victory without even having a battle.

===============

Dispirit your enemies with false information, rumors. Make his troops desert his army and you win without risking a fight.

Posted by: Sun Tsu at August 24, 2016 02:19 PM (C6xeQ)

198 We don't think enough about how much we collectively, yet unwittingly, force the media to lie to us.

Posted by: Grump928(c) says Free Soothie! at August 24, 2016 02:19 PM (evdj2)

199 161 ALL the news outlets are calling it a flip-flop.
And I've read it on the internet!

... so it MUST be true ...
Posted by: jwb7605 at August 24, 2016 02:08 PM (DofIg)

Yep, that's how you know it's scripted

Posted by: dagny at August 24, 2016 02:20 PM (eSQgj)

200 I personally think the investment of Trump's enthusiastic supporters in the immigration hawk hardline has been dramatically overestimated. Arguing on political forums online, you disproportionately get people who are legitimately invested in policy outcomes, but the vast majority of voters out in the wild are windsocks like Sean Hannity or Trump himself. Hannity's whole decade or two career has been in the world of political punditry, and he flips back and forth on immigration with the prevailing winds. How much more fickle must the average, barely engaged man on the street be? And hell, most of us more policy-minded, strongly ideological people got taken along with the neoconservative moment ourselves, because we're susceptible to the same influences when they're packaged well enough. People like Trump for the same reason people liked Obama: New and Shiny/Hope and Change. It signifies not nearly as much as we political junkies act like it does.

Posted by: reform highlander at August 24, 2016 02:20 PM (jCH/T)

201
Has he softened his stance on sanctuary cities?

Posted by: Flawless Male Logic at August 24, 2016 02:20 PM (lKyWE)

202 >>>
Here's where the problem lies. Those who support Mr. Trump blindly do not recognize his flaws and cast serious aspersions on those who do.

Why is it a crime to point them out, possibly in the hopes that he or his team will take heed?

...

that's why I always say it's just the Social Justice Warriors of the Right. They have chips on their shoulders. Whatever you say about MISTER Trump, you are somehow disrespecting them, and they take it personally. (Like MISTER Trump, they take EVERYTHING personally.)

I didn't talk about trump's supporters. I'm talking about TRUMP.

And yet some people identify with him so much --as some blacks identify with Obama, or women with Hillary -- that to say something negative about Trump is, literally, to say something bad about themselves.

That's why I have to warn people on these threads. I know the people who have no sense of self or self-worth outside of MISTER Trump are going to behave poorly when someone criticizes Obamatrump.

Posted by: ace at August 24, 2016 02:20 PM (dciA+)

203 Gee. If only some of us saw this coming and predicted it.

But, I guess it's better to call us Hillary supporters instead of actually listening to our warnings about this guy.

Posted by: Bea Arthur's Dick at August 24, 2016 02:20 PM (pldrX)

204 198 We don't think enough about how much we collectively, yet unwittingly, force the media to lie to us.
Posted by: Grump928(c) says Free Soothie! at August 24, 2016 02:19 PM (evdj2)

My sense is that you plagiarized most of that thought.

Posted by: jwb7605 at August 24, 2016 02:21 PM (DofIg)

205 You know these stories about Trump, and there's a new one every day, aren't so much news being reported so much as the MSM picking up their Trump voodoo doll and sticking another pin in it, hoping it will hurt him.

Zombie is right. Every story about Trump put out by the MSM is a false narrative.

Posted by: OregonMuse at August 24, 2016 02:21 PM (GXgiy)

206 Over two months and people don't even really pay attention until after Labor Day. This is one of those elections that will break the models and molds. A truly flawed Democrat Candidate they are trying to drug across the finish line and keep away from the press because they know she is prone to mendacity and off the cuff speaking that usually leads to electoral disasters.

But yeah, let's give up.

Posted by: Marcus T at August 24, 2016 02:21 PM (Ug8ez)

207 I suspect the success of Trump's recent rallies, making him look presidential, is spawning this concern trolling. His 'what do you have to lose?" line is pretty compelling.

Posted by: LizLem at August 24, 2016 02:22 PM (hvf9s)

208 >>>
But, I guess it's better to call us Hillary supporters instead of actually listening to our warnings about this guy.

i made the same warning, asshole. The thing is, in case you haven't noticed, it's down to Hillary vs. Trump, and yes, you guys are in fact supporting HIllary.

You just won't admit it, because you have this Gay Bullshit about maintaining that you are the Moast Conservative of all as you plump for Hillary.

Posted by: ace at August 24, 2016 02:22 PM (dciA+)

209 Dispirit your enemies with false information, rumors. Make his troops desert his army and you win without risking a fight.

Posted by: Sun Tsu at August 24, 2016 02:19 PM (C6xeQ)

"Make an enemy live up to its own book of rules"Alinsky, Saul

Posted by: runner at August 24, 2016 02:23 PM (c6/9Q)

210 For the record my policy would be

1) Build a barrier and control the Border. Any Country that does not control it's borders is not much of a Country. And that includes Visas of all kinds

2) ENFORCE THE LAWS ON THE BOOKS NOW

3) THREATEN to deport all illegals. Just like we THREATEN to punish all Tax Cheats. Of course we don't do that, because it is not practical but it does tend to scare people and result in better compliance and we do punish those tax cheats that are caught.

4) STOP giving any benefits to illegals. Don't make it so attractive to come here

5) Audit businesses that employ illegals

6) ALL violent illegals gone or imprisoned yesterday

And that's a start. We can work from there.

AND AND AND anyone who thought Trump or anyone was gonna roll the buses up and immediately deport 20 million is either 18 or living in Fantasy Land. But having said that it is much better to threaten to deport all 20 million illegals rather than sending a message that our gates are open and all are welcome and there is no penalty. And that is how I understand Trump's position also

Posted by: Nevergiveup at August 24, 2016 02:23 PM (Ozsfq)

211 Ace-I humbly suggest we might need a fun thread to get us united again. How about best photoshops of Hillary?

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at August 24, 2016 02:23 PM (6HqlZ)

212 That's why I have to warn people on these threads. I know the people who have no sense of self or self-worth outside of MISTER Trump are going to behave poorly when someone criticizes Obamatrump.

----

Broadbrush we much.

There's PLENTY to legitimately criticize Trump on.

Taking yesterdays comments and saying Trump is now is moving towards opens borders isnt one of them.

Let me rephrase that.

Taking yesterdays comments and Byron York saying Trump is now is moving towards opens borders isnt one of them.

Posted by: fixerupper at August 24, 2016 02:24 PM (8XRCm)

213 My sense is, we don't realize how, collectively, we force Ace to hector us about behaving, but we're morons so, of course.

Posted by: Neil de Grasse Moron at August 24, 2016 02:24 PM (C6xeQ)

214 What's wrong with having a sympathetic tone?, the content is exactly the same.

I'm surprised at how people who should know better believe the spin put out by the press, and I'm pleased at the number of commenters who aren't buying it.

Posted by: Dirks Strewn at August 24, 2016 02:16 PM (kfcYC)

It's bizarre, especially given that the source material is easy enough to locate.

Posted by: Wonk with Pigtails at August 24, 2016 02:24 PM (0sLvz)

215 Are you saying because he doesn't have people knocking on doors in August, that no one knows who he is?

Exactly. He doesn't have sores of offices in every city. He doesn't have gobs of college interns on staff door knocking and envelope stuffing and phone banking! No one will know who Donald Trump is!!!!11!!

/s

Posted by: rickb223 at August 24, 2016 02:24 PM (19RKp)

216 Two extremes here.

MSM- everthing Trump says is negative and a flip flop

Trump advocates - Trump has never flipped flopped and the MSM misreport everything Trump says.

Novenber 9th can't get here soon enough.

Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck at August 24, 2016 02:25 PM (YYoIi)

217 >>>
Taking yesterdays comments and Byron York saying Trump is now is moving towards opens borders isnt one of them.

all of his spokesmen are declining to say if deportations are still on the table, and his immigration speech was delayed while it was being modified, and he himself says he's "softening."

rumors and innuendoes, indeed.

Posted by: ace at August 24, 2016 02:25 PM (dciA+)

218 Building a wall and following the laws means self-deportations and businesses being shut down when they employ illegals. Cutting them off of welfare too.

There will be a mass exodus and those that stay behind will be easy to find.

Posted by: #NeverHillary at August 24, 2016 02:25 PM (Liss2)

219 What's an obamatrump?

Posted by: Nevergiveup at August 24, 2016 02:25 PM (Ozsfq)

220 We don't think enough about how much we collectively, yet unwittingly...ah, fuck it.

Posted by: Amy Schumer at August 24, 2016 02:26 PM (97XyN)

221 LOL, Clownald Drumpf is a YUGE CUCK! THE BIGGEST! MAKE CUCKERY GREAT AGAIN! ALL ABOARD THE CUCKTRAIN!

Posted by: Orange Clown-Shaped Pile of Shit and Garbage at August 24, 2016 02:26 PM (+PLT3)

222 AFAIK, Trump has yet to change course publicly. All the chatter is coming form internal meetings and Aids that don't want to be pinned down before Trump gives his immigration speech. Anyways mass deportations were never in the cards because the courts would damn the process to a trickle. Being able to secure the boarder and an ability to track down VISA overstays would go a long way top making this issue History.

Posted by: Serious Cat at August 24, 2016 02:26 PM (Uy6ri)

223 Trump SuperFan Ann Coulter feels it's necessary to warn trump away from this course.

Rumors and innuendos aplenty.

Posted by: ace at August 24, 2016 02:27 PM (dciA+)

224 Will you please explain what "lack of a ground game" actually is?

Ground game is a bit of an amorphous term, but usually seems to mean get out the vote efforts, or slightly wider than that, motivating voters to get out to the polls.

Posted by: Stephen Price Blair at August 24, 2016 02:27 PM (z/ZsK)

225 I think this is a serious screw-up. And when even I think its a mess...

Posted by: Joe Biden at August 24, 2016 02:27 PM (LISuA)

226 Bullshit all, the article and post, and this comment.

Posted by: nip at August 24, 2016 02:27 PM (L5nkE)

227 218 Building a wall and following the laws means self-deportations and businesses being shut down when they employ illegals. Cutting them off of welfare too.

There will be a mass exodus and those that stay behind will be easy to find.

Yes. And that's really the only practical way to do it as the media will be in full bleeding heart mode if ICE drags screaming children form their beds.

Posted by: Keith one name but not a paid troll at August 24, 2016 02:27 PM (nFB1w)

228 Since I turned 18 I have seen 9 presidential campaigns (that includes the second-term campaigns). This is, by far, the most bizarre, divisive, negative, and destructive campaign I have seen. I like to play seer but I can't because I'm not bright enough to see the underlying factors here. They're different from anything we've seen since FDR died. It all scares me. We're about to see the kind of political shift that the Brits underwent after WWII and it's going to make us a pale shadow of what we have been.

Posted by: joncelli, Longbow Afficianado and Phalangist at August 24, 2016 02:27 PM (RD7QR)

229 221 LOL, Clownald Drumpf is a YUGE CUCK! THE BIGGEST! MAKE CUCKERY GREAT AGAIN! ALL ABOARD THE CUCKTRAIN!
Posted by: Orange Clown-Shaped Pile of Shit and Garbage

OK, now this kind of moby-ing is at least interesting.

Terribly transparant, but at least entertaining.

Posted by: zombie at August 24, 2016 02:28 PM (jBuUi)

230 all of his spokesmen are declining to say if deportations are still on the table, and his immigration speech was delayed while it was being modified, and he himself says he's "softening."

rumors and innuendoes, indeed.

Posted by: ace

Based upon this, your premise is apt. The only decent reason remaining would be to deny the left or the MFM (but I repeat myself) cheap sound bites.

Posted by: Blue Hen at August 24, 2016 02:28 PM (326rv)

231

I think I'm the only one who doesn't care about this issue, and I see Fox over-exploding it day in and day out.

Trump's original stance is anti-illegals. Still is. He tip-toed around it again on O'Reilly. He wants them out.

That said, someone is poking him to become more "centrist" and pro-hispanic, or whatever, to get the votes. He needs to to win, I suppose, so he'll do whatever it takes, yes.

I don't know if he would keep any of his promises, but I'm still betting on someone who loves this country and sees what fruits it can bear versus the witch of Chicago, where she was born, which figures.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at August 24, 2016 02:28 PM (qCMvj)

232 all of his spokesmen are declining to say if deportations are still on the table, and his immigration speech was delayed while it was being modified, and he himself says he's "softening."

rumors and innuendoes, indeed.

-----

Well lets look at what he actually said. You quoted it.

"But they are very strong positions, and I would adhere to those positions very strongly.That doesn't mean that at some point we won't talk a little bit about some negotiation."

Posted by: fixerupper at August 24, 2016 02:28 PM (8XRCm)

233 I agree as well, there was no reason to back off on Immigration. There's no win it, and lots to lose. He needs to be strong and loud on this topic, because that's' where most of the country stands. Its one of the biggest things distinguishing between him and Hillary and its what won him the primary.

Going soft on this hurts him so he needs to not only get ahead of this but make strong, public statements about immigration, sanctuary cities, and borders.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at August 24, 2016 02:28 PM (39g3+)

234 There are always rumors and innuendo aplenty. Doesn't mean you have to play into that game.

Posted by: Nevergiveup at August 24, 2016 02:28 PM (Ozsfq)

235 Trump needed to modify the position because of the optics that would be brought up later in the campaign.

By adding this bit of "softening", he can effectively avoid the specter of commercials having a black-clad immigrant round-up force ripping the child out of his parents arms, M-16's at the ready.

Only the New York based right wing writers, who have an image of Trump supporters as back-woods, inbred sister-fuckers, will think that this minor adjustment will deter his backers.

In the minds of the left wing media and NeverTrumpers, any deviation from the hardest line xenophobia and racism is suppose to send Trump voters off to find a purer version - perhaps a Klan Grand Wizard.

Posted by: jwest at August 24, 2016 02:29 PM (Zs4uk)

236 226 Bullshit all, the article and post, and this comment.

Posted by: nip

Now, that's some even-handed condemnation!

Posted by: zombie at August 24, 2016 02:29 PM (jBuUi)

237

I watched that goofy guy running the Libertarian ticket on The Five yesterday, and it was awkward. He's a freak.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at August 24, 2016 02:29 PM (qCMvj)

238 Ace, did you even watch the townhall last night? I feel like I'm taking crazy pills whenever I read posts like this.

Posted by: Community Organizer at August 24, 2016 02:29 PM (GN7Er)

239 I got a call from the NRA yesterday. They wanted me to extend my membership so they could use the funds for lobbying against the proposed rules that will disqualify a lot of veterans and retired people (I qualify on both counts).

I said no, I'm paid up until 2021 already.
Conversation turned slightly political, and I remarked that I hoped this election turned out like government estimates on existing firearms.

I told the caller that there are a hell of a lot more firearms than anybody realizes -- most of them were made in the 1950s, work just fine and all of those are completely unregistered.
I told her I hope they find out there are a lot of voters like there are firearms.

Posted by: jwb7605 at August 24, 2016 02:29 PM (DofIg)

240 Yes. And that's really the only practical way to do it as the media will be in full bleeding heart mode if ICE drags screaming children form their beds.

Wish they would have screamed when Elian Gonzales was dragged from his......

Posted by: rickb223 at August 24, 2016 02:29 PM (19RKp)

241 >> I guess it's better to call us Hillary supporters instead of actually listening to our warnings about this guy.

Posted by: Bea Arthur's Dick at August 24, 2016 02:20 PM (pldrX)

Funny you should say that.

Remember when ace said he'd rather vote for Hillary?

"I'll actually vote for Hillary Clinton, if I vote at all."

Posted by: haggis at August 24, 2016 02:30 PM (urKNz)

242 When all is said and done, Trump is either what he says he is and will give it his best shot at saving the country, or Hillary will be elected and the shining light on the hill will burn out. I actually believe that the vast majority of people have lost interest in individual liberty and would be content to have someone else make their life decisions for them. It would free up time to watch Keeping Up With the Kardashians and Dancing With the Stars.

Posted by: Mr Macca Bean at August 24, 2016 02:30 PM (4ng05)

243 Will you please explain what "lack of a ground game" actually is?

Ground game is a bit of an amorphous term, but usually seems to mean get out the vote efforts, or slightly wider than that, motivating voters to get out to the polls.
=========================

It means he doesn't have enough paid/volunteer camp followers.

Posted by: simplemind at August 24, 2016 02:30 PM (C6xeQ)

244 Ground game is targeting actual voters on the ground, in their localities. Air game is targeting masses of voters (advertising and big speeches, and such).

Such is my non-professional impression.

Posted by: Stephen Price Blair at August 24, 2016 02:30 PM (z/ZsK)

245 Am in podcast withdrawls with both Ace and Drift Compatible on hiatus. Say what you will about some of the old cobs, the ones that helped with the podcasts were, as Milo puts it on his podcast, the "resident Germans," helped keep the trains on time. Miss the consistency.

Any good podcast/show recommends? Have been trying out Wayne Dupree show on right Side Broadcasting, the little spitfire lady on his show reminds me of Alex, aww.

Also think Ace should consider creating a Patreon page. Would not mind flipping him a few extra bucks for content above and beyond regular blog work. My online ukulele teacher does that, if you donate you get to help determine what songs she makes tutorials for next; seems to work well for her.

Posted by: LizLem at August 24, 2016 02:30 PM (hvf9s)

246 I think the "nuance" part is getting ICE and (to a lesser degree) Border Patrol to do their job and make good judgement calls.
__________________

First day in office, fire all the political appointees. Replace them with hard-assed, law-and-order conservatives.

Second day, make damn sure all the lefty non-political bureaucrats (which is probably 85% of them) understand that the Obama-era lawlessness will no longer be tolerated, and if they don't do their damn jobs exactly as required by law, they will be getting demoted and/or swiftly transferred to the nastiest federal office that can be found in Podunk Iowa or Shithouse Oklahoma or Frozen Tundra Alaska.

Posted by: TrivialPursuer at August 24, 2016 02:30 PM (NnYnv)

247 artisinal ette,

maybe, but Trump has shown this leg before. he called romney's self-deporation plan "heartless" and "insane" and during a debate said he was "softening" his position on H1Bs, to align with the Chamber of Commerce crowd and expand the program.

(After the furor about that, he took that back, but it's clear Trump really isn't committed to any of the claims he's making to make the sale.)

Posted by: ace at August 24, 2016 02:30 PM (dciA+)

248 Kellyann Conway (and by the way the best campaign manager evah) made it clear that immigration is an important issue, and official policy will not be delivered of the cuff, just because media is asking for it, and, hint, the story of the week is Hillary and AP disclosure of the corrupt enterprise she ran out of state

Posted by: runner at August 24, 2016 02:30 PM (c6/9Q)

249
Gee. If only some of us saw this coming and predicted it.

But, I guess it's better to call us Hillary supporters instead of actually listening to our warnings about this guy.

Posted by: Bea Arthur's Dick at August 24, 2016 02:20 PM (pldrX)

Remember that scene in the movie 'Gettysburg' where General Buford, played by Sam Elliot, is describing what will happen if the Union doesn't take and hold the high ground before Lee takes it? Yeah, that.

Trump is a disaster, win or lose, but there's nothing for it now but to voteagainst Hillaryand hope for the best.

Posted by: troyriser at August 24, 2016 02:30 PM (OGbEB)

250 Posted by: Nevergiveup at August 24, 2016 02:23 PM (Ozsfq)

You're Hired !!

Posted by: runner at August 24, 2016 02:32 PM (c6/9Q)

251 We've got estimates that some 25% of Mexican citizens are here in the US illegally. We've got some 90 million undocumented (false employment stats) unemployed Americans.

Softening means there won't be people with going door to door and putting people in wagons.

But if the laws are followed - especially shutting down businesses that employ them and shutting off the welfare -then they all go home without a deportation force.

Posted by: #NeverHillary at August 24, 2016 02:32 PM (Liss2)

252 Wish they would have screamed when Elian Gonzales was dragged from his......

Well, when the greater good is returning him to the glory of Cuban communism, what's not to like?

Posted by: Keith one name but not a paid troll at August 24, 2016 02:32 PM (nFB1w)

253

Think what

Romney
Marco
Jeb
etc...

would have done.

Amnesty.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at August 24, 2016 02:32 PM (qCMvj)

254
With the alphabet soup of immigrant legaldefense groups and the federal court system we have today en masse deportation was never a possibilty.I don't think Trump was lying when he talked about deportations of all illegal immigrants,i think he didn't understand the system very well

Posted by: Flawless Male Logic at August 24, 2016 02:32 PM (lKyWE)

255 "4) STOP giving any benefits to illegals. Don't make it so attractive to come here"

There's some stuff that can be done in that line.

But the concept of Free Shit is deeply legally entrenched, especially for "anchor babies". U.S. citizens in full from their first breath. Instantly eligible for WIC, TANF, CHIP, and the rest of the welfare state's alphabet soup. Uncle Sugar sends social workers right into the maternity wards to handle enrollment.

And the black-robed radicals on the federal bench have repeatedly ruled that the full measure of public schooling must be provided to any child under 18 who is physically present in the USA, regardless of the legality of their presence.

Posted by: torquewrench at August 24, 2016 02:32 PM (noWW6)

256 221 LOL, Clownald Drumpf is a YUGE CUCK! THE BIGGEST! MAKE CUCKERY GREAT AGAIN! ALL ABOARD THE CUCKTRAIN!
Posted by: Orange Clown-Shaped Pile of Shit and Garbage at August 24, 2016 02:26 PM (+PLT3

- - - -

How are you not banned yet? You're such a gross little troll.

Posted by: Community Organizer at August 24, 2016 02:32 PM (GN7Er)

257 And German dogs won't eat wasabi. Make of that what you will.

Posted by: Eromero at August 24, 2016 02:33 PM (zLDYs)

258 You're Hired !!
Posted by: runner at August 24, 2016 02:32 PM (c6/9Q)

Well I could certainly use the money

Posted by: Nevergiveup at August 24, 2016 02:33 PM (Ozsfq)

259 "I've said this before, but Trump's attitude is the attitude of the Salesman, where the only thing that matters is to get them to sign on the line which is dotted. It doesn't matter if you've been unclear on terms (or even deceptive); all that can be worked out in lawsuits later. The only thing that matters is saying, promising whatever it takes to get them to sign."

THIS.

And its also why I believe that Trump will end up being very GOPe...its what the salesman does: collect the money.

Posted by: sexypig at August 24, 2016 02:33 PM (UBBWX)

260 >>>Remember when ace said he'd rather vote for Hillary?

"I'll actually vote for Hillary Clinton, if I vote at all."
Posted by: haggis

...

i said that about Trump, too, Rubio ButtBoy.

Yet here I am, supporting trump, because I oppose hillary.

And meanwhile you're supporting whom, True Conservative of the Crying Eagle Brigade?

Posted by: ace at August 24, 2016 02:33 PM (dciA+)

261 There seems to be a sentiment here that one of the keys to limiting illegal immigration would be to harshly punish employers who employ illegals. I agree.

Has Trump ever mentioned anything about this? I suspect this is an element of immigration reform Trump is not eager to enforce.

Posted by: person(a non grata) at August 24, 2016 02:33 PM (mFkVC)

262 Gee. If only some of us saw this coming and predicted it.

But, I guess it's better to call us Hillary supporters instead of actually listening to our warnings about this guy.

Posted by: Bea Arthur's Dick at August 24, 2016 02:20 PM (pldrX)

Gee, if only the other stumblebums in the GOP would have stepped up their game and recognized and acknowledged the angst Trump was tapping into, they might have left the carny barker behind dead last in the primaries.

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at August 24, 2016 02:33 PM (X6fMO)

263 We should seriously consider putting together a GeorgiaLinaMoMe for all the GA/SC/NC Hordelings, maybe in Columbia? Seems that would be a good central meeting point.

Posted by: Pvt Daniel Jackson at August 24, 2016 02:33 PM (uiwCw)

264 (After the furor about that, he took that back, but it's clear Trump really isn't committed to any of the claims he's making to make the sale.)

Posted by: ace at August 24, 2016 02:30 PM (dciA+)

I agree.

And, it's obvious he's learning as he goes. Politics.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at August 24, 2016 02:34 PM (qCMvj)

265 How are you not banned yet? You're such a gross little troll.
Posted by: Community Organizer at August 24, 2016 02:32 PM (GN7Er)

One of the better questions of this election cycle.

Posted by: Mr Macca Bean at August 24, 2016 02:34 PM (4ng05)

266 why am I getting SQL errors? Sorry, this is a test.

Posted by: Orestes at August 24, 2016 02:34 PM (EIJH/)

267 Off, Saving Ryan's Privates sock.

Posted by: Country Singer at August 24, 2016 02:34 PM (uiwCw)

268 A candidate running for office who says we need to secure the border and then naturalize the illegal immigrants that are already here so long as they haven't committed violent crime.

I'll be damned, Jeb got the nomination after all.

Posted by: V the K at August 24, 2016 02:34 PM (O7MnT)

269 Briefly stated, the Gell-Mann Amnesia effect is as follows. You open
the newspaper to an article on some subject you know well.... You read
the article and see the journalist has absolutely no understanding of
either the facts or the issues. Often, the article is so wrong it actually
presents the story backward - reversing cause and effect. I call these the
"wet streets cause rain" stories. Paper's full of them. In any case, you
read with exasperation or amusement the multiple errors in a story, and
then turn the page to national or international affairs, and read as if
the rest of the newspaper was somehow more accurate about Palestine than
the baloney you just read. You turn the page, and forget what you know.

- Michael Crichton

Posted by: Orestes at August 24, 2016 02:34 PM (EIJH/)

270 "Also think Ace should consider creating a Patreon page. Would not mind
flipping him a few extra bucks for content above and beyond regular blog
work. My online ukulele teacher does that"

Wow, so the Ewok will be giving ukelele lessons too?

He's a veritable modern Renaissance man.

Posted by: torquewrench at August 24, 2016 02:34 PM (noWW6)

271 By adding this bit of "softening", he can effectively avoid the specter of commercials having a black-clad immigrant round-up force ripping the child out of his parents arms, M-16's at the ready.

They'll run that anyway. The one thing that Trump showed in the primaries is when that's tried, you say FYNQ and double down on it, ignoring them. You don't cave, you stand tall, show leadership, and forge your own path.

No matter what a GOP candidate does, the press will depict it as satan pitchforking babies into a trash compactor. Ignore that, and do your own thing.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at August 24, 2016 02:34 PM (39g3+)

272 But the concept of Free Shit is deeply legally entrenched, especially for "anchor babies". U.S. citizens in full from their first breath. Instantly eligible for WIC, TANF, CHIP, and the rest of the welfare state's alphabet soup. Uncle Sugar sends social workers right into the maternity wards to handle enrollment.

And the black-robed radicals on the federal bench have repeatedly ruled that the full measure of public schooling must be provided to any child under 18 who is physically present in the USA, regardless of the legality of their presence.
Posted by: torquewrench at August 24, 2016 02:32 PM (noWW6)

Tup your right. And I never said it would be easy. But the fight has to start somewhere and sometime. Now and Here is good enough.

Posted by: Nevergiveup at August 24, 2016 02:35 PM (Ozsfq)

273 And its also why I believe that Trump will end up being very GOPe...its what the salesman does: collect the money.

Absolutely, he's not a good guy, he's not a white knight, he's not gonna fix America, and he's not going to do what he claimed in the primaries. Everyone who had any discernment and wisdom knew that.

But consider the alternative...

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at August 24, 2016 02:36 PM (39g3+)

274 And meanwhile you're supporting whom, True Conservative of the Crying Eagle Brigade?

Posted by: ace at August 24, 2016 02:33 PM (dciA+)

I predict a sanctimonious, self-righteous reply.

Posted by: Mr Macca Bean at August 24, 2016 02:36 PM (4ng05)

275 I'm not a huge fan of Trump, but as a few people pointed out, it's not the issues that are going to get him elected. If Hillary wins as 4 more years of Obama, we get another 4 years of Conservatism being referred to as right wing lunacy and politicians who use their podiums to continue campaigning 24/7.

It would be nice to again have leaders who at least pretend to represent the entire country instead of simply the segment of the populace who voted for/lobbied them. We're but mere peons in this heartless world so we can't really hope to get everything we want, but maybe we can get more than what we have

Posted by: Becky at August 24, 2016 02:36 PM (JQG3D)

276 Trump is a disaster, win or lose, but there's nothing for it now but to voteagainst Hillaryand hope for the best.

IMO, if a president Trump actually reverses the anti individual rights globalism trend and its immigration component (a big if)... he will have done as much or more for America than Reagan. He really is a lone voice in the wilderness on this. I'm not sure if another one will arise if he loses.

To me, if you don't reverse those trends it's over. Maybe take 8-12 years but over none the less.

Posted by: Keith one name but not a paid troll at August 24, 2016 02:36 PM (nFB1w)

277 "But if the laws are followed - especially shutting down businesses that
employ them and shutting off the welfare -then they all go home without a
deportation force.
"

e-verify is shut down now; catch and release, sanctuary cities, total open borders... during bush years, tons were escorted out, especially the ones with a criminal record. can be done again.

Posted by: runner at August 24, 2016 02:37 PM (c6/9Q)

278 Absolutely, he's not a good guy, he's not a white knight, he's not gonna fix America, and he's not going to do what he claimed in the primaries. Everyone who had any discernment and wisdom knew that.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at August 24, 2016 02:36 PM (39g3+)

So who voted for him? Because a lot of folks did, and a lot of folks here were quite enthusiastic in their support of him.

Posted by: person(a non grata) at August 24, 2016 02:37 PM (mFkVC)

279 McMuffin on FOX. What an asshole

Posted by: Nevergiveup at August 24, 2016 02:37 PM (Ozsfq)

280 But the concept of Free Shit is deeply legally entrenched, especially for "anchor babies".

#1. Anchor babies are bs. You cannot profit from an illegal act.

If you rob a bank, and hand me the money on your way out of town, why don't I get to keep it? I wasn't part of the robbery.

If the parents broke the law to get here, how/why does the child get to profit?

Posted by: rickb223 at August 24, 2016 02:38 PM (19RKp)

281 Speaking of saving Ryan's privates...

Sure haven't been hearing much from the establishment wing of the party much lately. Must be hard, time consuming work undermining the nominee.

Posted by: Mr Macca Bean at August 24, 2016 02:38 PM (4ng05)

282 Immigration.

So who'd you rather have writing/enforcing rules of immigration? Hillary or Trump?

Posted by: simplemind at August 24, 2016 02:38 PM (C6xeQ)

283 when that's tried, you say FYNQ and double down on it, ignoring them.

Or run satirical counter ads with Hillary pretending an adult criminal is a child, maybe in an Angus Young suit, while he picks our pockets.

Posted by: Stephen Price Blair at August 24, 2016 02:38 PM (z/ZsK)

284 Conservatism exists to oppose Progressivism. We desire to "conserve" the constitutional republic AGAINST the changes desired by progressives. While you can spin it in positive terms, it's really a negative philosophy. That's why the weasely "Oh, but, whine, but, oh dear" mishmash is so illogical and offensive. Either oppose the prog, or get out of the way.

The MSM is going to make slaw out of Trump's already julianned statements, trying to convince the pro-amnesty and the anti-amnesty crowds that he's not with them.

What you do know is that Hillary would be worse.

Posted by: dagny at August 24, 2016 02:39 PM (eSQgj)

285 4) STOP giving any benefits to illegals. Don't make it so attractive to come here"

There are rules about this for LEGAL immigrants, too.

They are not supposed to get welfare of any kind.

Their sponsors have to sign affidavits of support.

I know, because I had to sign for my wife.

Here's the deal. Because I had to sign this draconian document, I started paying attention.

The fact is immigrants find ways to get around the affidavit of support...often the bureaucracy doesn't care or even "wink winks" at this stuff.

Chinese immigrants often get their elderly relatives into the USA. Then they get them classified as "disabled" and once that happens all the money flows.

My wife is Taiwanese (now a citizen) and we know a lot of Chinese who have their elderly family members here doing this. They view it like "getting a library card."

For those aghast at this, keep in mind our own citizens do this, too. My last landord, white dude, was "disabled" but could re-roof his house by himself.

Basically the system is crashing.

Posted by: sexypig at August 24, 2016 02:39 PM (UBBWX)

286 Also think Ace should consider creating a Patreon page.

I made one of those. I promoted it, hawked it, mentioned it. NO donors, not one. Either I built it wrong, or its just not a very viable platform. I'd love to see Ace do well on it, some people seem to. Just not me.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at August 24, 2016 02:39 PM (39g3+)

287 Absolutely, he's not a good guy, he's not a white knight, he's not gonna fix America, and he's not going to do what he claimed in the primaries. Everyone who had any discernment and wisdom knew that.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at August 24, 2016 02:36 PM (39g3+)

Holy shit! Why didn't you say so earlier! You could have saved the whole country all of this wasted effort with this exclusive enlightenment.

Posted by: Mr Macca Bean at August 24, 2016 02:39 PM (4ng05)

288 To me, if you don't reverse those trends it's over. Maybe take 8-12 years but over none the less.
============================

Game. Over. Game over man. That's it.

Posted by: corporal hicks at August 24, 2016 02:40 PM (C6xeQ)

289 Dispirit your enemies with false information, rumors. Make his troops desert his army and you win without risking a fight.

Posted by: Sun Tsu at August 24, 2016 02:19 PM (C6xeQ)

"Make an enemy live up to its own book of rules"Alinsky, Saul

Defeat your enemies, have them driven before you, and listen to the lamentations of their women!

Posted by: Conan the Barbarian at August 24, 2016 02:40 PM (ukNFU)

290 >>> I watched that goofy guy running the Libertarian ticket on The Five yesterday, and it was awkward. He's a freak. Posted by: artisanal 'ette at August 24, 2016 02:29 PM (qCMvj)

Hah, I saw that! His voice tone and cadence is frickin' annoying. I loved that Kimberly Guilfoyle had no patience with his nonsense and did not even try to play along with it like the other hosts. Good on her.

Posted by: LizLem at August 24, 2016 02:40 PM (hvf9s)

291 If his poll numbers dip low enough, he still has the possibility of coming to his senses and recanting and clarifying. He is not some bought and paid for stooge like Jeb. If he doesn't, I may sit this out. Remember the Friedman quote, we can't hope for a virtuous politician, so we settle for someone who can be coerced to do the right thing. And Trump seems to want to win.

Posted by: Yuimetal at August 24, 2016 02:40 PM (Mt8T4)

292 Basically the system is crashing.
Posted by: sexypig at August 24, 2016 02:39 PM (UBBWX)

Those are great points you made. Thanks for adding that

Posted by: Nevergiveup at August 24, 2016 02:40 PM (Ozsfq)

293 "So who'd you rather have writing/enforcing rules of immigration? Hillary or Trump?"

Trump will not be enforcing anything.

He is not a hands on kind of guy.

He lends his brand name to products and then spouts some gibberish in support of them.

"hand picked professors"

vote for Trump, but be ready for disappointment.

Posted by: sexypig at August 24, 2016 02:41 PM (UBBWX)

294 There is so much anger in this post. I can sense the clenched jaws, the grinding teeth, the fists closed tight and the arms shaking.

Can we wait until after the election for the "I told you so" chorus and the Group Hug and Evisceration?

No? well then come on down to the Outrage Outlet! We have a new shipment of Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt straight off the wharf in Detroit! First shoppers to buy $100 of F.U.D. today receive a free copy of Bill Kristol's latest epic "I have More Cunning Plans Where that Came From."

Posted by: *Mikey NTH - Get Your Campaign F.U.D. Fix at the Outrage Outlet! New Shipments Arrive Daily! at August 24, 2016 02:41 PM (hLRSq)

295 Or run satirical counter ads with Hillary pretending an adult criminal is a child, maybe in an Angus Young suit, while he picks our pockets.

Those kinds of ads actually seem to work pretty well, especially in modern snarky culture. It would probably be quite effective. A guy in a beard wearing a child's outfit, with a lollypop

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at August 24, 2016 02:41 PM (39g3+)

296 CNN: The Clinton Foundation does tons of work in the US, too. Some examples: It has a school program that operates in every state, affecting more than 31,000 schools and 18 million students by its count. That program is to improve physical education, child nutrition, health education and staff wellness programs. They also work on prescription drug addiction. The foundation wants to halve the number of opioid overdoses -- right now those drugs kill more Americans than car accidents.

One of the great American Foundations, you people just don't understand what a wonderful thing they are doing thought out the world....

Posted by: Colin at August 24, 2016 02:41 PM (toJdI)

297 So who voted for him? Because a lot of folks did, and a lot of folks here were quite enthusiastic in their support of him.

People who believed Carly Fiorina was too ugly to be president, Marco Rubio had a micropenis and Ted Cruz's dad plugged Kennedy.

Posted by: V the K at August 24, 2016 02:41 PM (O7MnT)

298 Rush was talking about this about 15 minutes ago.

It didn't sound like Trump was "softening" his stance,

he was expanding his appeal with language, something by the way Ace requested in a Rep candidate about 1 1/2 years ago-

In essence, Trump said "yeah, some of the illegals are good people but we're gonna obey the law. and felons out the door first."

If he means "obey the law", the illegals are going home regardless of who they are.

His words give the "moderates" a feel good pat on the head but the policy remains the same.

Posted by: naturalfake at August 24, 2016 02:42 PM (0cMkb)

299 >>> Can we wait until after the election for the "I told you so" chorus and the Group Hug and Evisceration?

I gotta lotta problems with you people!!!

Posted by: Morons, waiting impatiently for Festivus at August 24, 2016 02:42 PM (hvf9s)

300 These threads can be pretty entertaining, in a flaming clown-car crash kind of way, but they're also pretty exhausting. Think I'll head out for a bit.

Posted by: BeckoningChasm at August 24, 2016 02:43 PM (AroJD)

301 Absolutely, he's not a good guy, he's not a white knight, he's not gonna fix America, and he's not going to do what he claimed in the primaries. Everyone who had any discernment and wisdom knew that.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at August 24, 2016 02:36 PM (39g3+)

*****

He's a good guy compared to Hillary, he's a white knight compared to the brigade of progressive demons, he won't "destroy" America like the progs want to do, and he will do what he can or not depending on what he can do with a government full of burrowed progessive maggots. Everyone who has any discernment and wisdom knows Hillary is not only evil and leftist, but ill and deranged.

Posted by: dagny at August 24, 2016 02:43 PM (eSQgj)

302 How do your pearls stand up to the clutching, ace?

The administration is deliberately not deporting rapists, murderers, and drug dealers. Trump has never wavered on his desire to do the opposite, from Iowa and NH to now. The administration is not enforcing the border. He has been unfailingly consistent on that: he wants to build a wall.

Are you in favor of wholesale deportation, ace?

Posted by: Phone of kari at August 24, 2016 02:43 PM (b5/KV)

303 "The fact is immigrants find ways to get around the affidavit of support...often the bureaucracy doesn't care or even "wink winks" at this stuff."

I should be doubly clear here: the bureaucracy ENCOURAGES people to use welfare.

The immigrant may not even know they are "breaking the law."

See Mexican immigrants thinking summons to court as a "permiso."

When some NGO white lady is signing you up for EBT, are you really going to think its illegal?

When some "free phone" guy in front of Wal-Mart is signing you up for a free cell phone are you going to remember your affidavit?

No. See ACORN undercover tapes.

Posted by: sexypig at August 24, 2016 02:43 PM (UBBWX)

304 We should seriously consider putting together a GeorgiaLinaMoMe for all the GA/SC/NC Hordelings, maybe in Columbia? Seems that would be a good central meeting point.

Walhalla. Columbia's got nothing but a zoo.

Posted by: Grump928(c) says Free Soothie! at August 24, 2016 02:43 PM (evdj2)

305 " We've got estimates that some 25% of Mexican citizens are here in the US illegally."

Want to clarify. That's 25% of all of the total Mexican population of Mexico here in America.

1/4 of their population is here. Now. Illegally.

Posted by: #NeverHillary at August 24, 2016 02:44 PM (Liss2)

306 "Also think Ace should consider creating a Patreon page. Would not mind
flipping him a few extra bucks for content above and beyond regular blog
work. My online ukulele teacher does that"

only if we get a t-shirt

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at August 24, 2016 02:44 PM (qCMvj)

307 Uday what is best in Life:

A fleet horse,

wind in my hair, falcon at my wrist!

WRONG!!

Conan what is best in life?

To CRUSH your enemies,

See them driven before you,

and to hear the lamentations of their women.

Posted by: conan, not the comedian at August 24, 2016 02:44 PM (xVRrG)

308 One of the great American Foundations, you people just don't understand what a wonderful thing they are doing thought out the world....

Posted by: Colin at August 24, 2016 02:41 PM (toJdI)

LOL

Posted by: dagny at August 24, 2016 02:44 PM (eSQgj)

309 vote for Trump, but be ready for disappointment.

Sure, that's the best advice. A president Trump will be a horrible RINO, but still less terrible than President Hillary. As many have been saying for months now, its a choice between the terrible and the unthinkable. Either way, we lose. Its just a choice about how badly we lose.

I believe America was lost in 2012, perhaps earlier. Its just a question now about how horrific things get how quickly. At the very least, Donald Trump seems to actually, honestly love America and what it stood for, once. I cannot say that about any of the other candidates running.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at August 24, 2016 02:44 PM (39g3+)

310 The greatest general wins victory without even having a battle.

-
And then blinks his adversary's wife and daughters.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Now With More Je Ne Sais Quoi! at August 24, 2016 02:44 PM (Nwg0u)

311 And then blinks his adversary's wife and daughters.
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Now With More Je Ne Sais Quoi! at August 24, 2016 02:44 PM (Nwg0u)

I'd rather Bonck them, but if they are ugly, I might blink?

Posted by: Nevergiveup at August 24, 2016 02:45 PM (Ozsfq)

312 People who believed Carly Fiorina was too ugly to be president, Marco Rubio had a micropenis and Ted Cruz's dad plugged Kennedy.
Posted by: V the K at August 24, 2016 02:41 PM (O7MnT)

One question that has to be asked after the election is this: Why are GOP voters so susceptible to con-men?

One of the things that killed the Tea Party (along with GOPe opposition) were fraudulent Pacs and unvetted candidates. A lot of "conservative" media personalities right now are saying things about polls they know aren't true. And, as is increasingly clear, Trump is the biggest con of all and always was.

So how do we stop falling for this?

Posted by: person(a non grata) at August 24, 2016 02:46 PM (mFkVC)

313 A fleet horse,

wind in my hair, falcon at my wrist!

WRONG!!

You gotta admit though, Uday had a pretty good idea of best, too.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at August 24, 2016 02:46 PM (39g3+)

314 "CNN: The Clinton Foundation does tons of work in the US, too."

I'm going to go waaaaaaaay out on a limb here and guess that the Clown Nose Network piece didn't say a thing about the Clinton Foundation having been red-flagged by Charity Navigator for its lack of transparency and low payout ratio.

Posted by: torquewrench at August 24, 2016 02:46 PM (noWW6)

315 I believe America was lost in 2012, perhaps earlier. Its just a question now about how horrific things get how quickly.

Yes, the Fed has been printing money like crazy to keep the plates spinning, but it can only go on for so long.

Posted by: V the K at August 24, 2016 02:46 PM (O7MnT)

316 This really isn't surprising. Trump attacked Romney for being too tough on illegals. How is it a surprise he's saying this?

Posted by: DOBSON at August 24, 2016 02:46 PM (BXcJU)

317 Looks like someone isn't believing Buzzfeed:
https://twitter.com/thinkprogress/status/768485909549416448

Posted by: andycanuck at August 24, 2016 02:47 PM (LdMbv)

318 This is why I don't think an election will change anything.

Our politicians already passed laws that say immigrants can't get welfare.

Those laws are ignored. Nobody cares.

So, in my mind the enemy is the bureaucracy, the activists, and most importantly: the media.

Rule of law and control over bureaucrats is the key.

Posted by: sexypig at August 24, 2016 02:47 PM (UBBWX)

319 317 Looks like someone isn't believing Buzzfeed:
https://twitter.com/thinkprogress/status/768485909549416448
Posted by: andycanuck at August 24, 2016 02:47 PM (LdMbv)
---------------

Well, they're right to the extent that he never meant any of the stuff he said in the primaries.

Posted by: person(a non grata) at August 24, 2016 02:48 PM (mFkVC)

320 "Ground-games" are for cucks. Our Glorious Messiah MISTER Trump will will voter turnout into existence with his Best Words and his Good Brain.

Posted by: Orange Clown-Shaped Pile of Shit and Garbage at August 24, 2016 02:48 PM (+PLT3)

321 I think Trump will establish a border not because I trust him- I trust Jeff Sessions on this issue as much as I could trust a politician.

And if trump is elected, some amount of self deportation will occur. He may not reverse the road to ruin, but he'll be a vast improvement over hillzabub.

Posted by: Cooldawg at August 24, 2016 02:48 PM (PzZXH)

322 "CNN: The Clinton Foundation does tons of work in the US, too."

They were going to run a campaign about "women working to be elected" in the USA concurrent with Hill's campaign.

Not sure if they did it as it looks ssooooo obvious.

Posted by: sexypig at August 24, 2016 02:49 PM (UBBWX)

323 CRUSH your enemies,
See them DRIVEN before you,
And hear the orgasmic cries of WINONA

Posted by: Banana Splits Guy at August 24, 2016 02:49 PM (0G1TT)

324 Trump will not be enforcing anything.

He is not a hands on kind of guy.

Putting immigration reform in Jeff Sessions' hands would give me a boner.

Posted by: Grump928(c) says Free Soothie! at August 24, 2016 02:49 PM (evdj2)

325 (+PLT3)

Piss off, Joe.

Posted by: Grump928(c) says Free Soothie! at August 24, 2016 02:50 PM (evdj2)

326 Why are GOP voters so susceptible to con-men?

Remember, somewhere north of 10,000,000 Democrats switched party registration in time to vote in "Republican" primaries.

Remember, the Democrat Media Complex gave Trump $2 Billion worth of free media during the Republican primaries.

The Democrats knew from the get-go that Hillary was a wretched candidate, and so they set up the only Republican who could lose to her as the nominee.

Helped along by GOP protest voters and arrogant GOP candidates like Jeb and Kasich who stayed in just long enough to prevent opposition from coalescing around an Alternate candidate.

All the while, the DNC were laughing their asses off.

Posted by: V the K at August 24, 2016 02:50 PM (O7MnT)

327 SAVE AMERICA
VOTE TRUMP

Posted by: Myshiba at August 24, 2016 02:50 PM (4qOWG)

328 "Marco Rubio had a micropenis."

I could believe that.

That huge boat was compensating.

Posted by: sexypig at August 24, 2016 02:50 PM (UBBWX)

329 For those aghast at this, keep in mind our own citizens do this, too. My last landord, white dude, was "disabled" but could re-roof his house by himself.

Basically the system is crashing.
===========================

as an aside, folks coming from communist countries, well, they have survived in a corrupt bankrupt system and are good at scamming government rules to survive. In some cases they are very good at and have no qualms about maximizing their benefits in our system. Not all of them but, enough that its a problem.

Posted by: simplemind at August 24, 2016 02:50 PM (xVRrG)

330 If Trump becomes President, I will honestly hope that he will be the greatest President ever. I don't have one iota of desire to see him fail to be proven right about anything negative I've said and believe about him. If Hillary becomes President I hope she fails miserably because her idea of success is the antithesis of what I believe made this the greatest country in History.

Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck at August 24, 2016 02:51 PM (YYoIi)

331 Putting immigration reform in Jeff Sessions' hands would give me a boner.

Posted by: Grump928(c) says Free Soothie! at August 24, 2016 02:49 PM (evdj2)

Putting your boner in Hillary!'s hands would fix that.

Posted by: naturalfake at August 24, 2016 02:51 PM (0cMkb)

332 Just curious. Has Trump put himself in a worse position then The Hag? Anybody actually know what her position is or is this just another Trumpageddon thread?

Oh yeah the horror, lies and manipulation.

I think a trump is committed to what h can get done. Which is more then The Hag.

But yeah, electoral politics are curious or something.

Posted by: Marcus T at August 24, 2016 02:51 PM (Ug8ez)

333 Remember, somewhere north of 10,000,000 Democrats switched party registration in time to vote in "Republican" primaries.

Remember, the Democrat Media Complex gave Trump $2 Billion worth of free media during the Republican primaries.

The Democrats knew from the get-go that Hillary was a wretched candidate, and so they set up the only Republican who could lose to her as the nominee.

Helped along by GOP protest voters and arrogant GOP candidates like Jeb and Kasich who stayed in just long enough to prevent opposition from coalescing around an Alternate candidate.

All the while, the DNC were laughing their asses off.
Posted by: V the K at August 24, 2016 02:50 PM (O7MnT)
-----------------

This is all true. But voters still fell for it, even with some folks yelling about the con.

We really, really need to get better at this.

Posted by: person(a non grata) at August 24, 2016 02:51 PM (mFkVC)

334 Trump will not be enforcing anything.

He is not a hands on kind of guy.

I don't really even understand what that means. The president never personally enforces anything, they always do so through appointees and employees of the executive department. Its not like he straps on an immigration official suit and goes to bust illegals personally.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at August 24, 2016 02:52 PM (39g3+)

335 260 >>>Remember when ace said he'd rather vote for Hillary?

"I'll actually vote for Hillary Clinton, if I vote at all."
Posted by: haggis

...

i said that about Trump, too, Rubio ButtBoy.

Yet here I am, supporting trump, because I oppose hillary.

And meanwhile you're supporting whom, True Conservative of the Crying Eagle Brigade?

Posted by: ace at August 24, 2016 02:33 PM (dciA+)

Those are your words, in post
http://acecomments.mu.nu/?post=362323.

I'm one of those Independents you hate. I'm leaning Trump.

BTW, maybe you should do a post on why you conflate Independents with Undecideds and Unaffiliated voters.

Most people (~48% last I heard, vs ~28% D and ~25% R) fall into these categories.

Posted by: haggis at August 24, 2016 02:52 PM (urKNz)

336 "Trump will not be enforcing anything."

hard to argue with personal opinions that are stated as facts, other than say that , you are entitled to your opinion

Posted by: runner at August 24, 2016 02:52 PM (c6/9Q)

337 So who voted for him? Because a lot of folks did, and a lot of folks here were quite enthusiastic in their support of him.

Posted by: person(a non grata) at August 24, 2016 02:37 PM (mFkVC)

Trump was a reaction, amountain-sized middle finger extended tothe GOP Establishment.Rank-and-file Republican primary votersknew nothing would piss off the GOP Establishment more than a Donald Trump nomination. (Except maybe a Ted Cruz nomination but that's another story.)

As an aside, I wish the National Review would stop saying there is no GOP Establishment. Anyone who tells you there is no GOP Establishment is the GOP Establishment. They're like the Illuminati that way.

Posted by: troyriser at August 24, 2016 02:52 PM (OGbEB)

338 I made one of those. I promoted it, hawked it, mentioned it. NO donors, not one. Either I built it wrong, or its just not a very viable platform. I'd love to see Ace do well on it, some people seem to. Just not me.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at August 24, 2016 02:39 PM (39g3+)

Ace is either independently wealthy or he's taken a vow of poverty.

Any attempt to help put this website on a paying basis has been ignored.

Posted by: jwest at August 24, 2016 02:52 PM (Zs4uk)

339 I hate how RINO, D.C. beltway, establishment, donor class, cucks forced pro-amnesty Trump on us. I'm staying home.

Posted by: DOBSON at August 24, 2016 02:52 PM (BXcJU)

340 Why are GOP voters so susceptible to con-men?

this isn't it at all

The GOPe handed Trump to all of us on a platinum platter.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at August 24, 2016 02:52 PM (qCMvj)

341 Still waiting for the clowns with the flaming boners and something coming out of their eyes. I love that part !!!

Posted by: ScoggDog at August 24, 2016 02:53 PM (qoKAm)

342 A fleet horse,

wind in my hair, falcon at my wrist!

WRONG!!

You gotta admit though, Uday had a pretty good idea of best, too.
==================

Dude. No offense, but he comes across to me like a wanna be Caitlyn. I mean "wind in my hair" really? Really?

Posted by: simplemind at August 24, 2016 02:53 PM (xVRrG)

343 (After the furor about that, he took that back, but it's clear Trump really isn't committed to any of the claims he's making to make the sale.)

Posted by: ace at August 24, 2016 02:30 PM (dciA+)

It is?

Ace, I'm not a crazy Trump supporter who believes he is the second coming of Reagan and he will get done every single thing he is claiming he wants to do, he DOES have a congress to deal with and unfortunately, often a court.

But I don't understand why people think a politician or in this case a businessperson must either know 100% everything about every position right out of the gate, and therefore cannot learn anything or cannot modify their position even the slightest after becoming educated about a policy position. They cannot be persuaded to look differently at a problem and then attack it from a different angle or time table without being called at the least a flip flopper, or at the very worst, an evil lying bastard who screwed over all of their supporters just to get elected.

Posted by: Jen the original at August 24, 2016 02:54 PM (aSpG0)

344 The GOPe handed Trump to all of us on a platinum platter.

Some people will never grok this.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at August 24, 2016 02:54 PM (39g3+)

345 I hate how RINO, D.C. beltway, establishment, donor class, cucks forced pro-amnesty Trump on us. I'm staying home.
Posted by: DOBSON at August 24, 2016 02:52 PM (BXcJU)

------

Thats some first class weapons grade stupidity there, Dobber boy.

They had a whole stable of their own pro amnesty candidates that they DID try to "force on us".

Posted by: fixerupper at August 24, 2016 02:54 PM (8XRCm)

346 I don't ask that Trump be Michael vanquishing Satan's legions. I do ask that he at least make an honest effort at cleaning up some of the messes that have been made. Not that I think he can do it alone, even if he's inclined to--this is not the fault of a handful of people, this is not something a few can fix, and acting otherwise is the height of self-delusion at this stage.

That being said...one person, or a few, can still make a difference. They just have to be willing to sacrifice to do it. Whether those people who can will step up...we shall see...

Posted by: Brother Cavil, down with Eph 6:12-13 at August 24, 2016 02:54 PM (9krrF)

347 "as an aside, folks coming from communist countries, well, they have
survived in a corrupt bankrupt system and are good at scamming
government rules to survive. In some cases they are very good at and
have no qualms about maximizing their benefits in our system."

In the Russian-immigrant neighborhoods of NYC, there are so many fake "doctor's offices" and "legal clinics" devoted to professionally scamming Medicare/Medicaid that, on the rare occasions any federal investigators come round, alerts are actually broadcast on the local radio.

Posted by: torquewrench at August 24, 2016 02:54 PM (noWW6)

348 It is getting rather tedious, this weekly "OMIGOD Trump is flip-flopping and going to betray us on [fill in subject here] I told you all so!"

And then when you delve down in a bit you find out that he didn't say what the headline says, the words are the interpretation and speculation of the article's author, and nothing has actually changed except a lot of click-bait was created and more F.U.D. was spread around.

And then next week, another does of "OMIGOD Trump is betraying us...." comes out and last week's exercise is forgotten.

I wish there was a word for this effect.

Posted by: *Mikey NTH - Get Your Campaign F.U.D. Fix at the Outrage Outlet! New Shipments Arrive Daily! at August 24, 2016 02:55 PM (hLRSq)

349 Thats some first class weapons grade stupidity there, Dobber boy.

They had a whole stable of their own pro amnesty candidates that they DID try to "force on us".
Posted by: fixerupper at August 24, 2016 02:54 PM (8XRCm)

Trump is out there saying "self-deportation" is too harsh and we gotta let "good" illegals stay, yet Priebus and his establishment, pro-illegal friends in the RNC fought to keep Trump the nominee.

Posted by: DOBSON at August 24, 2016 02:56 PM (BXcJU)

350 "as an aside, folks coming from communist countries, well, they have survived in a corrupt bankrupt system and are good at scamming government rules to survive. In some cases they are very good at and have no qualms about maximizing their benefits in our system. Not all of them but, enough that its a problem."

Yes, my wife was in ESL class and the Russian classmate could explain exactly what kind of car to buy to avoid breaking the assets rules.

OTOH, many ex-communist places produce some solid libertarian thinkers and voters.

Posted by: sexypig at August 24, 2016 02:56 PM (UBBWX)

351 >>> Remember, somewhere north of 10,000,000 Democrats switched party registration in time to vote in "Republican" primaries.

There are a growing number of blue dog, Kennedy democrat, blue collar members of the dems that will be voting for Trump. The last bastige of boomers against Warren/Obama/Sanders socialism. How do you determine genuine interest in Trump vs shadow voters attempting an Operation Chaos?

Posted by: LizLem at August 24, 2016 02:56 PM (hvf9s)

352 Patreon.

I think he should try it.

there's an author I like who was having serious cash problems and put up a Patreon account a couple months ago. Making like 600 bucks a month now. Of course he's releasing on the site, in weekly serial form one chapter at a time, an unpublished novel he wrote.

Posted by: simplemind at August 24, 2016 02:57 PM (xVRrG)

353 As an aside, I wish the National Review would stop saying there is no GOP Establishment. Anyone who tells you there is no GOP Establishment is the GOP Establishment. They're like the Illuminati that way.
Posted by: troyriser at August 24, 2016 02:52 PM (OGbEB)
----------------------

There are lots of establishments. There is an "intellectual conservative commentator" establishment (Weekly Standard, NR); an "elected go-along-to-get-along GOPe" Congressional establishment; a "Conservative media personality" establishment (Hannity, Rush); etc. And there are many divisions within each of those establishments.

The trick is to understand how all these groups interact to produce, on the whole, bad results. The problem is that folks too often bunch them together or ignore certain groups, which leads to bad results.

Posted by: person(a non grata) at August 24, 2016 02:57 PM (mFkVC)

354 Check the vid of the gangsta-ganga-farian shootout on WZ. They have a shootout at a range of about five feet with badass-looking guns and hit no one but a semi-innocent bystander.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Now With More Je Ne Sais Quoi! at August 24, 2016 02:58 PM (Nwg0u)

355
Lets secretly switch the deportation narrative with a pro amnesty narrative and see if Mr Trump notices.....

Posted by: The Folgers Crystals Guy at August 24, 2016 02:58 PM (8XRCm)

356 >>so they set up the only Republican who could lose to her as the nominee. Posted by: V the K at August 24, 2016 02:50 PM (O7MnT)

If you really believe that Cruz wouldn't have turned out Democratic voters by the screen-wide orc-load, you're mental. Trump may lose; he may even lose bigly.

A Cruz-Clinton race would've resulted in a thorough, make-no-mistake, laughing-as-you're-giving-it Cruz ass-whipping. Democrats would've clawed through dead bodies to vote against him.

Posted by: General Zod at August 24, 2016 02:58 PM (Bdeb0)

357 "hard to argue with personal opinions that are stated as facts, other than say that , you are entitled to your opinion"

Its a prediction. Future tense.

I could be wrong. But I doubt it.

Posted by: sexypig at August 24, 2016 02:59 PM (UBBWX)

358 What do we want ?
FLAMING CLOWN BONERS !!!

When do we want 'em ?
NOW !!!

Posted by: ScoggDog at August 24, 2016 02:59 PM (qoKAm)

359 "A Cruz-Clinton race would've resulted in a thorough, make-no-mistake, laughing-as-you're-giving-it Cruz ass-whipping. Democrats would've clawed through dead bodies to vote against him."

Are you not aware that Democrats feel the exact same way about Trump?

Oh, maybe they think Trump is just a Nazi and not a Christian Taliban.

Posted by: sexypig at August 24, 2016 03:00 PM (UBBWX)

360 A Cruz-Clinton race would've resulted in a thorough, make-no-mistake, laughing-as-you're-giving-it Cruz ass-whipping. Democrats would've clawed through dead bodies to vote against him.
Posted by: General Zod at August 24, 2016 02:58 PM (Bdeb0)
----------------

The polls provide evidence this isn't true. Cruz's strengths and the nature of Trump's missteps suggest this isn't true. Trump has always been wildly, unprecedentedly unpopular.

Basically, Trump primary voters need to stop trying to make themselves feel better by saying this. Pretty much any of the other candidates would be doing better then Trump, and we knew this at the time.

Posted by: person(a non grata) at August 24, 2016 03:01 PM (mFkVC)

361 "A Cruz-Clinton race would've resulted in a thorough, make-no-mistake, laughing-as-you're-giving-it Cruz ass-whipping."

Unquestionably. Thanks not in small measure to whatever batshit craziness Glenn Beck would have uncorked trying to "help" Cruz.

Posted by: torquewrench at August 24, 2016 03:01 PM (noWW6)

362 "I wish there was a word for this effect."

Asshole-itis?

Posted by: #NeverHillary at August 24, 2016 03:01 PM (Liss2)

363 "A Cruz-Clinton race would've resulted in a thorough, make-no-mistake, laughing-as-you're-giving-it Cruz ass-whipping. Democrats would've clawed through dead bodies to vote against him."

To avenge JFK I suppose.

Posted by: V the K at August 24, 2016 03:01 PM (O7MnT)

364 Basically, Trump primary voters need to stop trying to make
themselves feel better by saying this. Pretty much any of the other
candidates would be doing better then Trump, and we knew this at the
time.

Posted by: person(a non grata) at August 24, 2016 03:01 PM (mFkVC)
But it was important to teach the "establishment" a lesson, even if that meant letting Hillary into the White House.

Posted by: DOBSON at August 24, 2016 03:01 PM (BXcJU)

365 Unquestionably. Thanks not in small measure to whatever batshit craziness Glenn Beck would have uncorked trying to "help" Cruz.

=====================

Funny, because its true.

Posted by: simplemind at August 24, 2016 03:02 PM (xVRrG)

366 CNN: The Clinton Foundation does tons of work in the US, too."

They were going to run a campaign about "women working to be elected" in the USA concurrent with Hill's campaign.

Not sure if they did it as it looks ssooooo obvious.
Posted by: sexypig at August 24, 2016 02:49 PM (UBBWX)

What work does the Clinton Foundation do anywhere? They spend 85% of their income on the foundation. Any other 501c3 with that kind of expense to income ratio would lose their tax exempt status.

Imagine if the Red Cross or Salvation Army only spent .15 our of ever .$1 on actual charity activities?

Didn't the CF totally fail to provide any kind of meaningful assistance to Haiti after the devastating earthquakes there, the ones that had Georgs HW Bush flying around with Clinton drumming up donations from other countries for relief?

Posted by: Jen the original at August 24, 2016 03:02 PM (aSpG0)

367 If this is some form of "Trump Lied, Illegals Reside" bullshit, give it a rest. York is one of the elites and anything he says about Trump is to be listened to with a jaundiced ear.

It is going to be a frustrating couple months with all of these pundits throwing shit up against the wall just so they get some column inches and reactions amongst the chattering class.

Posted by: oddknot still frets at August 24, 2016 03:02 PM (g1MTt)

368 Trump is not softening, if any of you heard what he actually said, he said we would "follow our existing laws". Just do what's already on the books. Felons get immediate deportation. And the Border Patrol and ICE really get to do their jobs.

Reading is hard for some people.

Posted by: Abby at August 24, 2016 03:03 PM (HBU7W)

369 FWIW, Cruz always polled better against Cankles in prospective head-to-head matchups.

But if beating Cankles was always the goal, why didn't y'all just nominate Mario Rubituesday?

Posted by: V the K at August 24, 2016 03:03 PM (O7MnT)

370 At this point, since everyone is now voting just for SCOTUS picks, Rubio would have been the wisest pick.

We all know he'd have sailed to dreamy victory.

Posted by: sexypig at August 24, 2016 03:03 PM (UBBWX)

371 >>Are you not aware that Democrats feel the exact same way about Trump? Oh, maybe they think Trump is just a Nazi and not a Christian Taliban. Posted by: sexypig at August 24, 2016 03:00 PM (UBBWX)

Yes, I am not aware of that. Neither are you. Democrats think Trump is lowbrow amusing; they think Cruz is the Texas Torquemada.

Posted by: General Zod at August 24, 2016 03:04 PM (Bdeb0)

372 Sure, Pres. Rubio would have sucked.

But we'd have those judges...

Posted by: sexypig at August 24, 2016 03:04 PM (UBBWX)

373 CNN: The Clinton Foundation does tons of work in the US, too.

-
You trying to tell me Hillz has had work done and still looks like that?

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Now With More Je Ne Sais Quoi! at August 24, 2016 03:04 PM (Nwg0u)

374 Unquestionably. Thanks not in small measure to whatever batshit craziness Glenn Beck would have uncorked trying to "help" Cruz.
Posted by: torquewrench at August 24, 2016 03:01 PM (noWW6)

---------------------

I don't know how anyone can look at the absurd clown show that is Trump's collection of media surrogates and think Beck, yelling to the base on his radio show, would have been more damaging.

Posted by: person(a non grata) at August 24, 2016 03:04 PM (mFkVC)

375 I think Ace does these posts not just to stimulate debate but it flushes out the trolls from the cracks in the woodwork.

It's like spilling syrup on the floor, the ants come running, LOL.

Posted by: Jen the original at August 24, 2016 03:05 PM (aSpG0)

376 "Yes, I am not aware of that. Neither are you. Democrats think Trump is lowbrow amusing; they think Cruz is the Texas Torquemada."

You must not have friends on Facebook.

Trump is linked to AltRight.

Trump is anti-Mexican racist.

He's polling less percent of black vote than George Wallace, dude.

Posted by: sexypig at August 24, 2016 03:05 PM (UBBWX)

377 Trump is not softening, if any of you heard what he actually said, he
said we would "follow our existing laws". Just do what's already on the
books. Felons get immediate deportation. And the Border Patrol and ICE
really get to do their jobs.

Posted by: Abby at August 24, 2016 03:03 PM (HBU7W)

Huh, that's basically Obama's position.

Posted by: DOBSON at August 24, 2016 03:05 PM (BXcJU)

378 Basically, Trump primary voters need to stop trying to make themselves feel better by saying this. Pretty much any of the other candidates would be doing better then Trump, and we knew this at the time.
============================

I can refute your argument with one word. And that word is

"Jeb"

I could use another word and that word is

"Dondi"

or even a different word and that word is
hyphenated

"marshmallow-man"

Or God help us all, that word could be

"Kasich".

Of course Pataki was exciting . . .

Posted by: simplemind at August 24, 2016 03:06 PM (xVRrG)

379 But if beating Cankles was always the goal, why didn't y'all just nominate Mario Rubituesday?
Posted by: V the K at August 24, 2016 03:03 PM (O7MnT)

Beating Clinton (and defending the Supreme Court) only became most Trump primary voters' goal after Indiana.

Posted by: person(a non grata) at August 24, 2016 03:06 PM (mFkVC)

380 "I think Ace does these posts not just to stimulate debate but it flushes out the trolls from the cracks in the woodwork."

Can you explain what you mean by troll?

Posted by: sexypig at August 24, 2016 03:06 PM (UBBWX)

381 which leads to bad results.

Posted by: person(a non grata) at August 24, 2016 02:57 PM (mFkVC)

I disagree that Trump is a bad result.

I voted for Cruz in the primaries, but he ran a lousy campaign so...

I had two results that I wanted for this election:

1) Hillary's defeat

2) A big ole kick in the balls for the GOPe.

Cruz would definitely have delivered #2 but I now doubt he could've achieved #1 (see - ran a lousy campaign)

Trump, as we've seen from the sheer panic and horror of the GOPe, is delivering a daily kick to their gonads-
so good result!

The question is now can he win on Nov 8?

I believe he can, but honestly, we'll have to see.

A metric shit-ton of negative ads practically write themselves regarding her and Obama and the rest of the Dims-

if Trump goes hard after her...he wins.

Posted by: naturalfake at August 24, 2016 03:06 PM (0cMkb)

382
Exactly. He doesn't have sores of offices in every city. He doesn't have gobs of college interns on staff door knocking and envelope stuffing and phone banking! No one will know who Donald Trump is!!!!11!!

/s

Posted by: rickb223 at August 24, 2016 02:24 PM (19RKp)

Obama did all that stuff in the leadup to the 2012 election. Did people not know who he was?

"Ground game" is an all-encompassing term for all the efforts necessary to mobilize the vote. It's opening offices, which are manned by volunteers and coordinated by regional/state paid and volunteer managers. Those offices are responsible for disseminating bumper stickers and signs and presence on the ticket's behalf at any number of local events. The volunteers in those offices get lists of voters that support the party, and they go door-to-door making sure those people plan to vote. On election day in hotly contested areas, the parties will have volunteers stand in front of precincts checking lists to make sure their voters have voted, and they'll relay the info back to HQ so phone bankers can call the people who haven't shown up yet. If you think this can be done in the few days or weeks right before an election, well, ask anyone who's ever worked in those tasks at one of those offices and they'll tell you they can start months beforehand and they never feel like there's enough time to contact everyone they need to as much as they need to and do all the other tasks.

The criticisms of this I've seen here more or less amount to the following:

1) It didn't work for Romney or McCain.
-True, but it did work for Obama, and W, and countless statewide and local candidates adapt it. Arguably, Romney and McCain didn't have the excitement going for them to get volunteers interested that Trump does.

2) If this is so awesome, why did Trump win in the primaries not using it when all the traditional politicians knew about it?
-Trump's enormous media advantage over his rivals probably helped him overcome their advantages to an extent. But it's also different reaching a general election audience than it is reaching a primary election audience. And Hillary is certainly using the blueprint Obama established for getting voters out.

3) Everyone knows about Trump already, so why does he need this? He can just go on tv.
-Everyone knows about Hillary, too, and she's setting up this structure to get the vote out. Why take a chance it not being necessary?

Posted by: El Skippito Friskito at August 24, 2016 03:06 PM (F26eZ)

383 "the ones that had Georgs HW Bush flying around with Clinton drumming up donations from other countries for relief?"

Whenever I contemplate the cozy amicability which exists between the Bushes and Clintonworld, I am reminded of the advice by George Carlin to the ordinary citizenry regarding the overlord class.

"There's a big club. A big club, and you ain't in it!"

Posted by: torquewrench at August 24, 2016 03:07 PM (noWW6)

384 "You must not have friends on Facebook.

Trump is linked to AltRight.

Trump is anti-Mexican racist.

He's polling less percent of black vote than George Wallace, dude."

Sorry, those statements should have been in quotes...those are what people say on facebook, not me.

Posted by: sexypig at August 24, 2016 03:07 PM (UBBWX)

385 I can refute your argument with one word. And that word is

"Jeb"

I could use another word and that word is

"Dondi"

or even a different word and that word is
hyphenated

"marshmallow-man"

Or God help us all, that word could be

"Kasich".

Of course Pataki was exciting . . .
Posted by: simplemind at August 24, 2016 03:06 PM (xVRrG)
-----------------

Yes, you just listed several candidates that polls showed then and continue to show now as doing much better against Clinton. I didn't like Rubio or Kasich very much, but either of them would probably be leaving Clinton in the dust.

Posted by: person(a non grata) at August 24, 2016 03:08 PM (mFkVC)

386 I don't know how anyone can look at the absurd clown show that is Trump's collection of media surrogates and think Beck, yelling to the base on his radio show, would have been more damaging
============================

Then you have wildly underestimated the off putting nature of the visuals of hand delivering teddy bears to MS 13 gang members arriving at the border.

Posted by: simplemind at August 24, 2016 03:09 PM (xVRrG)

387 "Rush was talking about this about 15 minutes ago.

It didn't sound like Trump was "softening" his stance,

he was expanding his appeal with language, something by the way Ace requested in a Rep candidate about 1 1/2 years ago-

In essence, Trump said "yeah, some of the illegals are good people but we're gonna obey the law. and felons out the door first."

If he means "obey the law", the illegals are going home regardless of who they are.

His words give the "moderates" a feel good pat on the head but the policy remains the same. "

YES, exactly this. We like to hear our candidates use strong language but when they do, their words get twisted back and forth to mean the worst possible version of what they really said. But when they soften their language to appeal to a broader audience we suddenly start doing the same thing.

I guess we've become too suspicious to give anyone the benefit of a doubt (understandible with Trump) but maybe, just maybe, that's what's going on since this is a presidential race and all.

I'll be honest when I started reading the hysterical bloggers complaining that Trump had changed with the wind I read Trump's words and it occurred to me that he hadn't necessarily changed anything, he'd just changed his tone and wording. No doubt it's to make it a little harder for certain members of the populace to hear/read it and suddenly scream RAAAACIST.

Posted by: Becky at August 24, 2016 03:09 PM (JQG3D)

388 Trump > Hillary

I'm not aware of any simpler formula.

The die is cast, those still arguing about what cannot be changed, suck cock by choice.

Posted by: Grump928(c) says Free Soothie! at August 24, 2016 03:10 PM (evdj2)

389
I disagree that Trump is a bad result.

I voted for Cruz in the primaries, but he ran a lousy campaign so...

Posted by: naturalfake at August 24, 2016 03:06 PM (0cMkb)

Cruz ran a really, really good campaign. It was strategically brilliant, deployed grassroots resources well, and resulted in a very strong showing for a candidate with very little party support (but lots of grassroots support).

The media gave Trump billions in air time.

Trump did not run a good campaign. The media ran a good Trump campaign.

Posted by: person(a non grata) at August 24, 2016 03:11 PM (mFkVC)

390 >>The polls provide evidence this isn't true. Posted by: person(a non grata) at August 24, 2016 03:01 PM (mFkVC)

To beat this pulp of a horse one final time: You trust the polls; I'll continue to trust the ballot count. If Cruz was such a hot prospect, he'd have trounced Trump in the primaries. He didn't, because he's a crap candidate, whether he's running against Trump or against Clinton. The GOP hates Trump because he's proven he didn't need them; they hate Cruz because he's an arrogant prick--if his mother whispered to Connie Chung that her son was "actually kind of an asshole," who would be surprised.

Dems might stay at home and lazily count on their neighbors to take down as-yet-unknown/unknowable Trump; they'll line up in a hailstorm to vote against all-too-well-known Cruz.

Posted by: General Zod at August 24, 2016 03:11 PM (Bdeb0)

391 LOL. Cruz did not run a good campaign, or he wouldn't have failed so dramatically.

Posted by: dagny at August 24, 2016 03:12 PM (eSQgj)

392 Cruz ran a really, really good campaign. Posted by: person(a non grata) at August 24, 2016 03:11 PM (mFkVC)

It was a great campaign until it wasn't.

Posted by: General Zod at August 24, 2016 03:13 PM (Bdeb0)

393 Here are the facts:

Trump has no real set principles or policy on immigration beyond generic word vomit. He could be anywhere from Graham's left to Tancredo's right on any given day.

The only thing that changes is the tone. He said tough things about illegal immigration, so he's gonna be the guy to do it! Then he says these things. His fans are right to say there's no walkback - there was nothing to walk back from.

Posted by: DOBSON at August 24, 2016 03:13 PM (BXcJU)

394 I drink the tears of the trolls. Never gets old hearing the lamentations of their women.

MMM....delicious.

Posted by: #NeverHillary at August 24, 2016 03:13 PM (Liss2)

395 Then you have wildly underestimated the off putting nature of the visuals of hand delivering teddy bears to MS 13 gang members arriving at the border.

Posted by: simplemind at August 24, 2016 03:09 PM (xVRrG)
-----------------------

Ah, this talking point.

As is becoming increasingly clear, Trump is far less likely to do anything meaningful about illegal immigration then Cruz. And he has, as Ace said, hurt the cause for years to come.

But Trump is better, because he called people "rapists" while Cruz gave children teddy bears.

It's almost like people don't care about actual policies and results and just want to feel emotionally vindicated.

Posted by: person(a non grata) at August 24, 2016 03:13 PM (mFkVC)

396 Yes, you just listed several candidates that polls showed then and continue to show now as doing much better against Clinton. I didn't like Rubio or Kasich very much, but either of them would probably be leaving Clinton in the dust.

===============
You can not reason a man out of a position he hasn't reasoned himself into. We didn't arrive here by reason, but by contest. Ergo, your efforts at reasoning "better" candidates while arguably amusing as a past time, aren't relevant.

Its Trump/Pence or Hillary/Gwildor.

Choose wisely.

Posted by: simplemind at August 24, 2016 03:13 PM (xVRrG)

397 "those still arguing about what cannot be changed, suck cock by choice."

Nonsense. I was born this way.

Posted by: Bitch McConnell with a Dick In His Mouth at August 24, 2016 03:14 PM (97XyN)

398
Posted by: General Zod at August 24, 2016 03:11 PM (Bdeb0)

That goes against all available polling showing Democrats smashing Trump, whereas Cruz had a chance. Not a certainty by any means, but if we had nominated him, he wouldn't be losing Georgia.

Posted by: DOBSON at August 24, 2016 03:14 PM (BXcJU)

399 Posted by: Jen the original at August 24, 2016 02:05 PM (aSpG0
****

This. Like diving tea leaves, some people just don't like Trump and concoct bullshit like this from what are rational statements when drilling down into general policy positions.

Flip, flop? Hardly. Maybe the collective we forces pundits and commentators to be lie to us. Yeah, maybe that is it. Fuck you all you hacks.

Posted by: oddknot still frets at August 24, 2016 03:14 PM (g1MTt)

400 Cruz probably ran the best possible campaign given the amount of deranged, nigh-on histrionic opposition he got from the GOP Establishment, the mainstream media, and the Cult of Trump.

Posted by: V the K at August 24, 2016 03:15 PM (O7MnT)

401 391 LOL. Cruz did not run a good campaign, or he wouldn't have failed so dramatically.
Posted by: dagny at August 24, 2016 03:12 PM (eSQgj)
-----------------------

You guys really need to come up with a better line now that it's clear just how badly you got duped by the MSM.

Posted by: person(a non grata) at August 24, 2016 03:15 PM (mFkVC)

402 cubs had a good season... for the last 100 years

Posted by: runner at August 24, 2016 03:16 PM (c6/9Q)

403 That goes against all available polling showing Democrats smashing Trump, whereas Cruz had a chance. Not a certainty by any means, but if we had nominated him, he wouldn't be losing Georgia.

He already lost Georgia once.

Posted by: Grump928(c) says Free Soothie! at August 24, 2016 03:16 PM (evdj2)

404 As is becoming increasingly clear, Trump is far less likely to do anything meaningful about illegal immigration then Cruz.

Especially since Trump is going to lose. Big Time.

Posted by: V the K at August 24, 2016 03:16 PM (O7MnT)

405
Posted by: Grump928(c) says Free Soothie! at August 24, 2016 03:16 PM (evdj2)
Not to Hillary.

Posted by: DOBSON at August 24, 2016 03:16 PM (BXcJU)

406 You guys really need to come up with a better line now that it's clear just how badly you got duped by the MSM.

What is your purpose here, Joe?

Posted by: Grump928(c) says Free Soothie! at August 24, 2016 03:16 PM (evdj2)

407 You guys really need to come up with a better line now that it's clear just how badly you got duped by the MSM.

They really believed that the MFM was giving Trump all that free publicity because Trump was such a "Master Manipulator" of the media.

Posted by: V the K at August 24, 2016 03:18 PM (O7MnT)

408 That goes against all available polling showing Democrats smashing Trump, whereas Cruz had a chance. Not a certainty by any means, but if we had nominated him, he wouldn't be losing Georgia.

He already lost Georgia once.
+++++++++++

Grump - with respect. This guy isn't here for reason logic and evidence. Don't bother. He's still grieving.

Posted by: simplemind at August 24, 2016 03:18 PM (xVRrG)

409 What is your purpose here, Joe?
Posted by: Grump928(c) says Free Soothie! at August 24, 2016 03:16 PM (evdj2)
--------------

I'm not Joe. And I am absolutely done justifying "my purpose." I'm here because I want to be here. That's what you get.

Posted by: person(a non grata) at August 24, 2016 03:18 PM (mFkVC)

410 Cruzlim's Kool-Aid, it's a hell of a drug.

Posted by: #NeverHillary at August 24, 2016 03:19 PM (Liss2)

411 Denial. Anger. Bargaining. Depression. Acceptance.

Some people are at different stages.

That's what you get.

Posted by: simplemind at August 24, 2016 03:19 PM (xVRrG)

412 Posted by: person(a non grata) at August 24, 2016 03:11 PM (mFkVC)

We'll have to agree to disagree.

Cruz never got his Evangelical "base" to vote for him...they voted for Trump.

Until late in the process Cruz never broke thru the 20% or so Rep voters that comprised his base.

He made stupid strategic errors.(the Carson flapdoodle, and blaming Trump for Democrat violence outside his rallies, etc)

And probably most damaging, he never pivoted off his I'm the most conservative constitutional conservative whatever conserved the constitution-

and showed how that could benefit the kitchen table issues the remaining 80% of Rep voters as Reagan did constantly.

It was a poor campaign run poorly.

When your plan is failing, you don't dig in and double down on stupid. You regroup, revamp, and go forward. Cruz never did that.

He'd have gotten his ass kicked by hillary1 and the MSM because for a smart guy, he is not agile at all.

Yeeesh!

Posted by: naturalfake at August 24, 2016 03:20 PM (0cMkb)

413 Grump - with respect. This guy isn't here for reason logic and evidence. Don't bother. He's still grieving.

Posted by: simplemind at August 24, 2016 03:18 PM (xVRrG)
I'm angry Hillary is getting elected, but I'm not grieving over Trump getting annihilated.

Posted by: DOBSON at August 24, 2016 03:20 PM (BXcJU)

414 Grump - with respect. This guy isn't here for reason logic and evidence. Don't bother. He's still grieving.

Posted by: simplemind at August 24, 2016 03:18 PM (xVRrG)
--------------

You haven't offered logic and evidence. People arguing against you have pointed to polls and given reasoned arguments for Trump's success in the primaries and why it doesn't translate to the general.

Posted by: person(a non grata) at August 24, 2016 03:20 PM (mFkVC)

415 I categorize people into three groups:

(1) Hillary
(2) Trump
(3) me
(4) everyone else

Now, who gets my vote for president?

(1) I don't like Hillary - but this is a process. Let's see where it leads.

(2) Trump. Nope.

(3) Me. I don't want to be president.

(4) Everyone else. Not conservative enough.

That leaves Hillary. I'm not for her, but who else is there? I've literally exhausted all other possibilities.

Posted by: FireHorse at August 24, 2016 03:20 PM (EUDLj)

416 Uncuck the pollz you guys. Trump is really winning by 983 points you guys. Serious you guys.

Posted by: Orange Clown-Shaped Pile of Shit and Garbage at August 24, 2016 03:21 PM (+PLT3)

417 I'm not Joe. And I am absolutely done justifying "my purpose." I'm here because I want to be here. That's what you get.

Perhaps I missed it but your purpose is still unclear. Are you planning to count coup if Trump loses, Joe? If he wins, you won't be here anymore. You can't change any of the primary votes at this point. You just call the voters stupid. You have to have a mighty high opinion of yourself, I guess, to know both the past and the future.

Posted by: Grump928(c) says Free Soothie! at August 24, 2016 03:21 PM (evdj2)

418 I'm angry Hillary is getting elected, but I'm not grieving over Trump getting annihilated.
=========================

We know. Its a process. Hang in there.
It'll get worse before it gets any better at all.

Posted by: simplemind at August 24, 2016 03:22 PM (xVRrG)

419 As badly as they are bashing Trump now, Cruz would have gotten massacred. He really had no shot at the presidency, although he did far better in the primaries than I expected.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at August 24, 2016 03:23 PM (39g3+)

420 For the record, Trump's supporters are right to say that Cruz would be a weak general election candidate - but both Hillary and Trump are weaker.

Anyone else, Rubio, Kasich, Jindal, Fiorina, etc. would have blown Hillary away.

Posted by: DOBSON at August 24, 2016 03:23 PM (BXcJU)

421 It'll get worse before it gets any better at all.

Truer words were never typed.

Posted by: Grump928(c) says Free Soothie! at August 24, 2016 03:23 PM (evdj2)

422 Anyone else, Rubio, Kasich, Jindal, Fiorina, etc. would have blown Hillary away.

Or not. Counterfactuals are for entertainment purposes only.

Posted by: Grump928(c) says Free Soothie! at August 24, 2016 03:24 PM (evdj2)

423 We know. Its a process. Hang in there.

It'll get worse before it gets any better at all.
Posted by: simplemind at August 24, 2016 03:22 PM (xVRrG)

Entirely correct, due to the upcoming second Clinton administration.

Posted by: DOBSON at August 24, 2016 03:24 PM (BXcJU)

424 (1) I don't like Hillary - but this is a process. Let's see where it leads.

(2) Trump. Nope.

So maybe Hillary but never Trump? Got it. That tells everyone all they need to know.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at August 24, 2016 03:24 PM (39g3+)

425 Perhaps I missed it but your purpose is still unclear. Are you planning to count coup if Trump loses, Joe? If he wins, you won't be here anymore. You can't change any of the primary votes at this point. You just call the voters stupid. You have to have a mighty high opinion of yourself, I guess, to know both the past and the future.
Posted by: Grump928(c) says Free Soothie! at August 24, 2016 03:21 PM (evdj2)

----------------

Not only am I Joe, I'm also Chemjeff, RedBanzai, AmishDude, etc. and so on. Only one person in the whole world doesn't agree with you.

Posted by: person(a non grata) at August 24, 2016 03:24 PM (mFkVC)

426 Anyone else, Rubio, Kasich, Jindal, Fiorina, etc. would have blown Hillary away.

Jeb, Huckabee, Graham, Gilmore...

I just threw up in my mouth a little bit.

Posted by: V the K at August 24, 2016 03:24 PM (O7MnT)

427 People who believed Carly Fiorina was too ugly to be president, Marco Rubio had a micropenis and Ted Cruz's dad plugged Kennedy.

Posted by: V the K

GOP voters may or may not be crazy, but what is the appeal of someone like Fiorina? A better question is why a tolerably popular person can't get through the process. They all have to sell their souls to someone to get anywhere. Maybe Trump is just an insincere salesman, but at least he is trying to sell something that the public wants. Most of the candidates were just fronting for the usual suspects, no matter how hard they talked about Mom and apple pie.

Posted by: Lance at August 24, 2016 03:25 PM (rZMTM)

428 You guys really need to come up with a better line now that it's clear just how badly you got duped by the MSM.Posted by: person(a non grata) at August 24, 2016 03:15 PM (mFkVC)

****
Your current delusion not withstanding? Today's Trump hysteria is that he changed on something which is only some scripted media supposition. But you're a permanent TDS pseudo troll, so, meh.

Posted by: dagny at August 24, 2016 03:25 PM (eSQgj)

429 Only one person in the whole world doesn't agree with you.

Pretty much yeah.

Posted by: Grump928(c) says Free Soothie! at August 24, 2016 03:25 PM (evdj2)

430 363 "A Cruz-Clinton race would've resulted in a thorough, make-no-mistake, laughing-as-you're-giving-it Cruz ass-whipping. Democrats would've clawed through dead bodies to vote against him."
---

To avenge JFK I suppose.
Posted by: V the K at August 24, 2016 03:01 PM (O7MnT)

LOL.

Posted by: rickl at August 24, 2016 03:25 PM (zoehZ)

431 You haven't offered logic and evidence. People arguing against you have pointed to polls and given reasoned arguments for Trump's success in the primaries and why it doesn't translate to the general.
==================

With deepest sympathies let me point out with only the slightest teensy bit of sarcasm . . .

Trump won the nomination. I saw it on TV. Those other people didn't. They are no longer options.

Posted by: simplemind at August 24, 2016 03:26 PM (xVRrG)

432 419 As badly as they are bashing Trump now, Cruz would have gotten massacred. He really had no shot at the presidency, although he did far better in the primaries than I expected.
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at August 24, 2016 03:23 PM (39g3+)
----------------

Well, Trump is losing badly to Clinton. And, according to the folks here, every other primary candidate would have done worse. So apparently Clinton is the most amazing candidate in the history of the nation and noone ever had a chance to beat her. So why worry now? We've been doomed all along!

Posted by: person(a non grata) at August 24, 2016 03:27 PM (mFkVC)

433 "That leaves Hillary. I'm not for her, but who else is there? I've literally exhausted all other possibilities."

You can always write in Soros - you're real boss.

Posted by: #NeverHillary at August 24, 2016 03:27 PM (Liss2)

434
"Not only am I Joe, I'm also Chemjeff, RedBanzai, AmishDude, etc. and
so on. Only one person in the whole world doesn't agree with you."

Ok, the Special Ed class, then. You guys allowed to use forks yet?

Posted by: dagny at August 24, 2016 03:27 PM (eSQgj)

435
Posted by: Grump928(c) says Free Soothie! at August 24, 2016 03:24 PM (evdj2)
We're not shooting into the dark. Trump was the most disliked Republican to the general electorate.

Posted by: DOBSON at August 24, 2016 03:27 PM (BXcJU)

436 Well, Trump is losing badly to Clinton.

and ... what? What do you propose, Joe?

Posted by: Grump928(c) says Free Soothie! at August 24, 2016 03:28 PM (evdj2)

437 We're not shooting into the dark.

'If' is always shooting in the dark. It's entertaining, but it's no argument.

Posted by: Grump928(c) says Free Soothie! at August 24, 2016 03:28 PM (evdj2)

438 429
Only one person in the whole world doesn't agree with you.

Pretty much yeah.

Posted by: Grump928(c) says Free Soothie! at August 24, 2016 03:25 PM (evdj2)

*******You can see her little group holding on to the rope as they get their fresh air allotment on the grounds.

Posted by: dagny at August 24, 2016 03:29 PM (eSQgj)

439 and ... what? What do you propose, Joe?
Posted by: Grump928(c) says Free Soothie! at August 24, 2016 03:28 PM (evdj2)
---------------------

I dunno, Jwest, maybe we could try and figure out how to be less susceptible to con-men so that things like this don't keep happening?

Posted by: person(a non grata) at August 24, 2016 03:30 PM (mFkVC)

440 'If' is always shooting in the dark. It's entertaining, but it's no argument.
Posted by: Grump928(c) says Free Soothie! at August 24, 2016 03:28 PM (evdj2)
"If John Lennon hadn't been shot, he probably would have lived that day."Some ifs are more reasonable than others.

Posted by: DOBSON at August 24, 2016 03:30 PM (BXcJU)

441 "Anyone else, Rubio, Kasich, Jindal, Fiorina, etc. would have blown Hillary away."

Snicker.

Yummy.

Posted by: #NeverHillary at August 24, 2016 03:31 PM (Liss2)

442 I dunno, Jwest, maybe we could try and figure out how to be less susceptible to con-men so that things like this don't keep happening?

Posted by: person(a non grata) at August 24, 2016 03:30 PM (mFkVC)

You rang?

Posted by: jwest at August 24, 2016 03:31 PM (Zs4uk)

443 maybe we could try and figure out how to be less susceptible to con-men so that things like this don't keep happening?

So, at best you believe you see a problem. You have no idea what to do about it but you think repeating your definition of the problem will move someone else to propose a solution to the problem you believe exists.

Seems more annoying than fruitful.

Posted by: Grump928(c) says Free Soothie! at August 24, 2016 03:32 PM (evdj2)

444 So, at best you believe you see a problem. You have no idea what to do
about it but you think repeating your definition of the problem will
move someone else to propose a solution to the problem you believe
exists.

Seems more annoying than fruitful.
Posted by: Grump928(c) says Free Soothie! at August 24, 2016 03:32 PM (evdj2)

You want solutions? You might not like them.

Posted by: DOBSON at August 24, 2016 03:33 PM (BXcJU)

445 You want solutions? You might not like them.

Proposals are arguable. Whines are not.

So, yeah. Proposals are always welcome.

Posted by: Grump928(c) says Free Soothie! at August 24, 2016 03:35 PM (evdj2)

446 And if I wasn't clear, Joe's a whiner. I don't think you are Dobson. Just disappointed. Like me.

Posted by: Grump928(c) says Free Soothie! at August 24, 2016 03:36 PM (evdj2)

447
Posted by: Grump928(c) says Free Soothie! at August 24, 2016 03:35 PM (evdj2)
1. Don't nominate somebody with horrid favorables with the general electorate. You need them to win.2. Don't nominate somebody who says pointlessly inflammatory things.3. Don't listen to entertainment media elites like Sean Hannity and Ann Coulter for electoral advice. They personally benefits with leftists in charge.4. Don't abide cults just because they're nominally on your side.5. Don't worship celebrities.

Posted by: DOBSON at August 24, 2016 03:37 PM (BXcJU)

448 I know that's all too late now. But going forward, we should keep them in mind. Conservatism and winning are the only two things that matter. Now "Tells it like it is", or maybe he upsets somebody you don't like. Those things might be incidental to good candidates, but FFS. Look at Trump.

Posted by: DOBSON at August 24, 2016 03:38 PM (BXcJU)

449 I dunno, Jwest, maybe we could try and figure out how to be less susceptible to con-men so that things like this don't keep happening
===================

Is that bargaining? I still sense a lot of Anger and denial though. Still, progress.

Posted by: simplemind at August 24, 2016 03:38 PM (xVRrG)

450 1. Don't nominate somebody with horrid favorables with the general electorate. You need them to win.2. Don't nominate somebody who says pointlessly inflammatory things.3. Don't listen to entertainment media elites like Sean Hannity and Ann Coulter for electoral advice. They personally benefits with leftists in charge.4. Don't abide cults just because they're nominally on your side.5. Don't worship celebrities.

Worth aspirations all.

How? If you believe in self-government, the people have the right to be wrong. How do you prevent the voters from picking a bad candidate?

Posted by: Grump928(c) says Free Soothie! at August 24, 2016 03:39 PM (evdj2)

451 worthy

FMK

Posted by: Grump928(c) says Free Soothie! at August 24, 2016 03:40 PM (evdj2)

452 1. Don't nominate somebody with horrid favorables with the general electorate. You need them to win.2. Don't nominate somebody who says pointlessly inflammatory things.3. Don't listen to entertainment media elites like Sean Hannity and Ann Coulter for electoral advice. They personally benefits with leftists in charge.4. Don't abide cults just because they're nominally on your side.5. Don't worship celebrities.
Posted by: DOBSON at August 24, 2016 03:37 PM (BXcJU)

This is all good advice. Number 3, in particular, is incredibly vital - the fact that the MSM are self-interested and biased doesn't mean the people who say what we want to hear aren't.

Now, how we actually go about DOING any of this, I'm not sure.

Posted by: person(a non grata) at August 24, 2016 03:40 PM (mFkVC)

453
Posted by: Grump928(c) says Free Soothie! at August 24, 2016 03:39 PM (evdj2)

Ultimately, there's nothing that can. You can have wonderful, intelligent people in charge of everything - party, media, think tanks, opinion journals, blogs, etc. and if voters are dumb enough, that won't be enough. Hopefully the Hillary administration will knock some sense into them.

Posted by: DOBSON at August 24, 2016 03:40 PM (BXcJU)

454 But having good people in charge would help. We can't help what MSM does, but Fox was embarrassingly pro-Trump. And Limbaugh and such should have assailed him.

Posted by: DOBSON at August 24, 2016 03:42 PM (BXcJU)

455 Ultimately, there's nothing that can. You can have wonderful, intelligent people in charge of everything - party, media, think tanks, opinion journals, blogs, etc. and if voters are dumb enough, that won't be enough
=======================

the long march through the institutions has been over for a generation and the fruits of that march and generation are also voting now.

So yes. We're screwed. The real fight happened a while back, before most of us knew what was going on.

Posted by: simplemind at August 24, 2016 03:44 PM (xVRrG)

456 "Whatever you say about MISTER Trump, you are somehow disrespecting them, and they take it personally. (Like MISTER Trump, they take EVERYTHING personally.)"
"I know the people who have no sense of self or self-worth outside of MISTER Trump are going to behave poorly when someone criticizes Obamatrump."

I don't know who this was directed at, but because I'm a Trump supporter (and defender) doesn't mean I self-identify with Trump. This line of argument has been used by Ace here before -- if you like Trump you must have a small dick and fantasize about being a Big Man.

I don't especially like Trump, but I think he can be effective, and was the best we had to take on the Left and MSM and the GOPe.

And he's not above criticism. But he's working out Immigration so he'll be less of a target for HillaryLand. Those ads with the Trump Gestapo kicking in the door at 2 am just got a little harder to make.

Just win, baby.

Posted by: Ignoramus at August 24, 2016 03:45 PM (r1fLd)

457 Let's see, the GOPe fails to deliver and has goals antithetical to its base. Someone comes along, and we'll allow for the sake of argument that said candidate is a con-man, and offers the base something closer to what they want. Reaction of person and others is to complain that the base went for a con-man instead of recognizing the problem is the GOPe. In other words, con-man, who might not be a con-man, is better than the rest who you know are going to screw you.

Game theory, do you understand it?

Posted by: WOPR - Nationalist at August 24, 2016 03:46 PM (Ee2nz)

458 Ironically, this is why politicians develop 30 second sound bites, so they don't confuse people with conflicting positions.

Posted by: Reality Man at August 24, 2016 03:46 PM (Ch0fq)

459 The smart bet is to wait on his immigration speech from a teleprompter later this week. Get the details from the horses mouth.

On the other hand it is also smart to make sure your career poollster for the GOPe and amnesty unipary member, who is now running your campaign, is an effective communicator and knows what your immigration plan will be an not confuse it with the uniparty immigration plan she has spent decades defending and getting paid to do so.

Put a muzzle on her. She has been screwing up the message. Trump has done pretty well to stay on message.

I'll still wait for the speech but immigration is the issue that got him this far and to morph it into the uniparty amnesty byanother name will cost him the election. He would be foolish and an idiot to adopt the platform that was a loser for 16 candidates and is the catalyst behind this revolution of the American Citizens.

Posted by: The Death Rattle of Western Civilization at August 24, 2016 03:46 PM (SXmvw)

460 I'll still wait for the speech but immigration is the issue that got him
this far and to morph it into the uniparty amnesty byanother name will
cost him the election. He would be foolish and an idiot to adopt the
platform that was a loser for 16 candidates and is the catalyst behind
this revolution of the American Citizens.

Posted by: The Death Rattle of Western Civilization at August 24, 2016 03:46 PM (SXmvw)

Honest question - was Trump beating Clinton before all this?

Posted by: DOBSON at August 24, 2016 03:48 PM (BXcJU)

461
That leaves Hillary. I'm not for her, but who else is there? I've literally exhausted all other possibilities.

Posted by: FireHorse at August 24, 2016 03:20 PM (EUDLj)

Any argument that concludes 'that leaves Hillary' is nonsensical to me--unless, of course, you're analyzing a list of suspects in the murder of Bill in the parlor with a paring knife.

Posted by: troyriser at August 24, 2016 03:48 PM (OGbEB)

462 Posted by: DOBSON at August 24, 2016 03:37 PM (BXcJU)

How about running candidates that
1. connect with voters
2. will do what the voters want and not the CoC and lefties

You can keep beating on Trump but he is simply a symptom of the failure of the GOPe.

Posted by: WOPR - Nationalist at August 24, 2016 03:49 PM (Ee2nz)

463 How about running candidates that

1. connect with voters

2. will do what the voters want and not the CoC and lefties

You can keep beating on Trump but he is simply a symptom of the failure of the GOPe.
Posted by: WOPR - Nationalist at August 24, 2016 03:49 PM (Ee2nz)
Trump hasn't connected with voters. They hate him. And he has no agenda beyond self-aggrandizement. If someone convinced him that proposing to make Spanish our official language would guarantee him victory, he would do it.

Posted by: DOBSON at August 24, 2016 03:51 PM (BXcJU)

464 maybe we could try and figure out how to be less susceptible to con-men so that things like this don't keep happening?

Here is my hypothesis.

It's because conservatism is no longer defined by people like Burke or Buckley or Kirk or even Sowell, but by entertainers like Rush and Hannity and Levin. And Fox News. And websites like Drudge and Breitbart. They don't sell principled conservatism, they sell outrage and hysteria. And that is the ONLY source of news that many people tend to get, because they have good reason not to trust less jaded, less hysterical MSM news outlets because they are skewed so far to the left. So from this point of view, Trump isn't a "con man", he is actually the fruit of the modern conservative-entertainment-outrage complex. He is giving the conservative base exactly what they are looking for.

Posted by: chemjeff at August 24, 2016 03:51 PM (5115x)

465 457 Let's see, the GOPe fails to deliver and has goals antithetical to its base. Someone comes along, and we'll allow for the sake of argument that said candidate is a con-man, and offers the base something closer to what they want. Reaction of person and others is to complain that the base went for a con-man instead of recognizing the problem is the GOPe. In other words, con-man, who might not be a con-man, is better than the rest who you know are going to screw you.

Game theory, do you understand it?
Posted by: WOPR - Nationalist at August 24, 2016 03:46 PM (Ee2nz)
-----------------------------

The GOPe is a problem. In the above scenario the base is also a problem, because ultimately each voter is responsible for their own vote.

What's more, the GOPe is going to come out of all this stronger.

But the key problem with your story is that their was never any legitimate doubt about what Trump was. Overwhelming evidence was readily available.

Posted by: person(a non grata) at August 24, 2016 03:52 PM (mFkVC)

466 Here is my hypothesis.

It's because conservatism is no longer defined by people like Burke or Buckley or Kirk or even Sowell, but by entertainers like Rush and Hannity and Levin. And Fox News. And websites like Drudge and Breitbart. They don't sell principled conservatism, they sell outrage and hysteria. And that is the ONLY source of news that many people tend to get, because they have good reason not to trust less jaded, less hysterical MSM news outlets because they are skewed so far to the left. So from this point of view, Trump isn't a "con man", he is actually the fruit of the modern conservative-entertainment-outrage complex. He is giving the conservative base exactly what they are looking for.
Posted by: chemjeff at August 24, 2016 03:51 PM (5115x)
--------

Exactly this.

The lesson people should have taken away from the fact that the MSM is biased is that everyone is biased, you need to sort through the competing biases of multiple sources to get something like the truth, and you should most respect those outlets that are the most honest about their bias.

Instead, people seemed to decide that the MSM was biased and thus everything they said was the opposite of the truth, and Conservative media outlets that said what we wanted to hear were conveying undiluted truth.

Posted by: person(a non grata) at August 24, 2016 03:57 PM (mFkVC)

467

Posted by: V the K at August 24, 2016 03:01 PM (O7MnT)

Oh come now. I voted for Cruz in the primaries but I have no doubt the msm would make him look like Todd Akin 2.0, except with 50% more craziness and unlikability.

Posted by: Donna and V. (sans ampersands at the present time) at August 24, 2016 03:59 PM (u0lmX)

468 399 Posted by: Jen the original at August 24, 2016 02:05 PM (aSpG0
****

This. Like diving tea leaves, some people just don't like Trump and concoct bullshit like this from what are rational statements when drilling down into general policy positions.

Flip, flop? Hardly. Maybe the collective we forces pundits and commentators to be lie to us. Yeah, maybe that is it. Fuck you all you hacks.
Posted by: oddknot still frets at August 24, 2016 03:14 PM (g1MTt)

400 Cruz probably ran the best possible campaign given the amount of deranged, nigh-on histrionic opposition he got from the GOP Establishment, the mainstream media, and the Cult of Trump.
Posted by: V the K at August 24, 2016 03:15 PM (O7MnT)

LMAO.

But I am at a loss as to why Ace wrote this whole post, based upon some NR NeverTrump wanker's article. I watched part of the Austin rally last night where Trump stood aside while mothers of Texans killed by illegals spoke about their children. A couple were legal immigrants. One brought her son's ashes. Her only child.

Maybe NeverTrump posts generate the most page clicks. But it's a pathetic representation of the masthead to continually whimper in the corner over imaginary slights.

Posted by: Bernette at August 24, 2016 04:01 PM (ru2SK)

469 They don't sell principled conservatism, they sell outrage and hysteria . . .
Outrage, maybe.
Hysteria?
That device is reserved for the left-handed.

Posted by: norma mailer at August 24, 2016 04:07 PM (QKP3Q)

470 "Trump's attitude is the attitude of the Salesman, where the only thing that matters is to get them to sign on the line which is dotted. It doesn't matter if you've been unclear on terms (or even deceptive); all that can be worked out in lawsuits later. The only thing that matters is saying, promising whatever it takes to get them to sign.

The problem is, it's not just the sale that matters. That might be where you make your commission, but the buyer is expecting delivery of the goods he contracted to buy."

This is an apt comparison.

Along similar lines, Thomas Crown had a tweet storm a while explaining Trump's style in light of his real estate background.

It was storified here, ICYMI:

http://tinyurl.com/jrmsu9s

Posted by: Y-not (@moxiemom) at August 24, 2016 04:07 PM (t5zYU)

471 People who claim that Trump is a conman are missing the point: he's not. It is really important to think of politics strategically and with game theory and all that, and if you do that it becaomes clear that Trump is actually not a conman, but just a disgusting, unprincipled asshole.

Posted by: HiHo at August 24, 2016 04:10 PM (CPk08)

472 Any argument that concludes 'that leaves Hillary' is nonsensical to me--unless, of course, you're analyzing a list of suspects in the murder of Bill in the parlor with a paring knife.Posted by: troyriser at August 24, 2016 03:48 PM (OGbEB)

****
No kidding, but I think she's use something different than a paring knife. That would require too much effort.

Posted by: dagny at August 24, 2016 04:10 PM (eSQgj)

473 " ..... After days of Trump and his senior advisers talking about it, the answer is entirely unclear.

The fundamental problem vexing Team Trump is that the deportation proposal was never really clear" (York).

So, let's review. An unclear proposal is, now, unclear. So THIS is what we are supposed to be talking about? It's kind of surprising to see ace - apparently - keep posting on a vapor-ware MSM meme, while it's head-shaking to see the usual suspects (and some new, formerly more interesting ones) reprising their tedious sophomoric told-you-so crap.

Pointless to worry about it, probably - as so many commenters here, even the currently less utterly delusional obsessives among them - have somehow acquired a wildly inaccurate understanding of our system.

Deportation is part of the system. Always has been (always has been part of every immigration/border control system in every country, forever, by definition). Deportations are happening today. They happened last week. They happened 10 years ago.

"Enforcing the laws" means - deportations. Period. Every case is handled individually, there is an entire separate judicial system set up to deal with these matters, all this has gone on since before everyone here was born.

Deportations are as much a part of our immigration system as citations and fines are part of our traffic laws, or fines and imprisonment part of our tax or fraud laws.

Yet every day here and elsewhere ignoramuses spout idiocy like "you can't deport (fill in the blank) million people!!! eleventy!". You don't have to adjudicate every case. Collateral measures like enforcing employent and other laws will, without doubt, produce an instant change in the water temperature. With instant and satisfying results. For the 1,000th time, review what happened in AZ between passage of their law and the federal court's utlimate Catch-22 lawlessness (YOU can't deal with immigration, THAT's exclusively a federal thing, but they don't have to do their part, either .... or something!).

And using the federal authority to eliminate the outrageous and lawless state-level insanity that carves out special benefits for illegals, from financial accounts to tuition to permitting illegals, in CA, to be officers of the court - no, not making that up - will be part of that process.

And look at the Q ampersand A quoted in the pull quote above. THAT is a walkback, or a softening, or some kind of betrayal? WTF? It's an utterly mundane and inconsequential and uninteresting statement of common sense.

Posted by: rhomboid at August 24, 2016 04:11 PM (QDnY+)

474 It's because conservatism is no longer defined by people like Burke or Buckley or Kirk or even Sowell, but by entertainers like Rush and Hannity and Levin. And Fox News. And websites like Drudge and Breitbart. They don't sell principled conservatism, they sell outrage and hysteria. And that is the ONLY source of news that many people tend to get, because they have good reason not to trust less jaded, less hysterical MSM news outlets because they are skewed so far to the left. So from this point of view, Trump isn't a "con man", he is actually the fruit of the modern conservative-entertainment-outrage complex. He is giving the conservative base exactly what they are looking for.
Posted by: chemjeff at August 24, 2016 03:51 PM (5115x)

So principled conservatism is globalism, open borders, "free" trade, and social liberalism? Because that is what the GOPe has been delivering and will continue to deliver. Neither Bush was really conservative. McCain wasn't. Romney wasn't. Cruz is but the man is not presidential material. Rubio might have been except he shot himself in the foot with immigration.

You guys keep blaming the voters when the voters don't have much of a choice. And the whole, voters hate candidate X, doesn't matter if you like candidate X. Your job is to make them like candidate Y not cry because you couldn't be X.

Posted by: WOPR - Nationalist at August 24, 2016 04:13 PM (Ee2nz)

475 But I am at a loss as to why Ace wrote this whole post, based upon some NR NeverTrump wanker's article.

Yep

Posted by: dagny at August 24, 2016 04:14 PM (eSQgj)

476 Maybe Ace was bored and wanted to bring the trolls out. I can't figure out why he wrote this post either.

Posted by: Abby at August 24, 2016 04:21 PM (HBU7W)

477 dagny, actually, even leaving aside the ad hominem about York (have no idea, don't care either way), even that actual pull quote from York self-eviscerates on the "point" supposedly being made.

"Enforcing the law" includes deportations. By definition. I am not sure that to be "clear" on a policy, a candidate has ever before been required to draft an actual executive order (which actually is the appropriate instrument in this case), which would provide concrete operational guidance to the BP and DHS.

Might actually be helpful to have an actual Trump walkback on this issue - not an imagined or very dubious one - to see if there would be a backlash to remind everyone of one reason he is the candidate.

Posted by: rhomboid at August 24, 2016 04:23 PM (QDnY+)

478 The only thing that matters is saying, promising whatever it takes to get them to sign . . .So what?
Has there EVER been a politician---or a "leader"---who was not motivated by "making a sale?"
The motivation is ALWAYS egocentric: "I know better."
What is the point of this site?
Ace will deliver HIS pitch, and if you are too---what?
reactive? unreceptive? dismissive? antidisestablishmentarianistic?---you will be banned.
The choice is between a menace and a jerk.
Sad, yes. But not really a challenge to someone who is not besotted by egotism.

Posted by: norma mailer at August 24, 2016 04:25 PM (QKP3Q)

479 Rand Paul is looking pretty good about now.

Posted by: Hill Country Texan at August 24, 2016 04:36 PM (iQChX)

480 But I am at a loss as to why Ace wrote this whole post, based upon some NR NeverTrump wanker's article.

Yep

Posted by: dagny at August 24, 2016 04:14 PM (eSQgj)

Just guessing here but maybe Ace is posting this because this is not an contest to elect one symbol or the other. Whoever we elect will be implementing actual policies that will actually be bad for the country.

Also, its worth saying we told you so... cause we did.

Posted by: redbanzai at August 24, 2016 04:38 PM (3JA/M)

481 "Also, its worth saying we told you so... cause we did."

And often!

Posted by: Ignoramus at August 24, 2016 04:40 PM (r1fLd)

482 Might actually be helpful to have an actual Trump
walkback on this issue - not an imagined or very dubious one - to see if
there would be a backlash to remind everyone of one reason he is the
candidate.

Posted by: rhomboid at August 24, 2016 04:23 PM (QDnY+)

You don't think that Trump's periodic support for touch back amnesty is a walkback of promise to deport illegals?

Posted by: redbanzai at August 24, 2016 04:41 PM (3JA/M)

483 And often!
Lol.

Posted by: norma mailer at August 24, 2016 04:43 PM (QKP3Q)

484 People need to understand that the existing system of checks and balances built into our government will not work if Hillary reaches the executive office. One only has to see how the system of checks and balances collapsed under the Obama regime.

However, the system of checks and balances will work if Trump is elected. Both parties will see to that because Trump is an anathema to the entire ruling class.

Posted by: Locke Common at August 24, 2016 04:47 PM (I6Am+)

485 However, the system of checks and balances will work
if Trump is elected. Both parties will see to that because Trump is an
anathema to the entire ruling class.

Posted by: Locke Common at August 24, 2016 04:47 PM (I6Am+)

That is wishful thinking. Trump has promised fabulous deals with both parts of the establishment. Since they want what he wants, to some degree or another, just who do you expect to check whom?

Posted by: redbanzai at August 24, 2016 04:51 PM (3JA/M)

486 "However, the system of checks and balances will work if Trump is elected."

Agreed. Trump's biggest fights may be with Ryan and McConnell.

Posted by: Ignoramus at August 24, 2016 04:53 PM (r1fLd)

487 Never forget Ace threatened to vote for Hillary so any critique of Trump should be taken with a grain of salt.

Relax y'all. It's not going to be close. We're going to win this thing

Posted by: Jasper at August 24, 2016 04:55 PM (NZgmf)

488 Agreed. Trump's biggest fights may be with Ryan and McConnell.

Posted by: Ignoramus at August 24, 2016 04:53 PM (r1fLd)

As shown by Trump fighting Ryan's RNC rules that tightened establishment control of the party... oh wait...

Posted by: redbanzai at August 24, 2016 04:55 PM (3JA/M)

489 Never forget Ace threatened to vote for Hillary so any critique of Trump should be taken with a grain of salt.

Relax y'all. It's not going to be close. We're going to win this thing

Posted by: Jasper at August 24, 2016 04:55 PM (NZgmf)

I don't think he did.

Posted by: redbanzai at August 24, 2016 04:56 PM (3JA/M)

490 However, the system of checks and balances will work if Trump is elected.
Yes.
The Jerk will not rule.
But the Menace will. Break out those FBI files!
So be ruled or governed (after a fashion).
It's really very simple.
HAIL HILLARY! Hillary Folk Matter!

Posted by: norma mailer at August 24, 2016 04:58 PM (QKP3Q)

491 @489 O he did

"I'll actually vote for Hillary Clinton, if I vote at all" - ace

Posted by: Jasper at August 24, 2016 05:02 PM (NZgmf)

492 However, the system of checks and balances will work if Trump is elected.

Yes.

The Jerk will not rule.

But the Menace will. Break out those FBI files!

So be ruled or governed (after a fashion).

It's really very simple.

HAIL HILLARY! Hillary Folk Matter!

Posted by: norma mailer at August 24, 2016 04:58 PM (QKP3Q)

I would expect both Trump and Hillary to use the full might of federal agencies against people who disagree with them.

Posted by: redbanzai at August 24, 2016 05:02 PM (3JA/M)

493 O he did

"I'll actually vote for Hillary Clinton, if I vote at all" - ace

Posted by: Jasper at August 24, 2016 05:02 PM (NZgmf)

I missed that.

Posted by: redbanzai at August 24, 2016 05:03 PM (3JA/M)

494 I missed that
Me too.
But you know what? Just between us . . . O.K." . . .
I would not be shocked to find out there
was gambling afoot in the brain of Ace.
HAIL ACE!

Posted by: norma mailer at August 24, 2016 05:13 PM (QKP3Q)

495 Just guessing here but maybe Ace is posting this because this is not an contest to elect one symbol or the other. Whoever we elect will be implementing actual policies that will actually be bad for the country.

Also, its worth saying we told you so... cause we did.

Posted by: redbanzai at August 24, 2016 04:38 PM (3JA/M)

Don't be ridiculous. Ace isn't an idiot. He understands that progs are the worst option.

Posted by: dagny at August 24, 2016 05:31 PM (eSQgj)

496 An unclear proposal is, now, unclear. So THIS is what we are supposed to be talking about? It's kind of surprising to see ace - apparently - keep posting on a vapor-ware MSM meme, while it's head-shaking to see the usual suspects (and some new, formerly more interesting ones) reprising their tedious sophomoric told-you-so crap.

Pointless to worry about it, probably - as so many commenters here, even the currently less utterly delusional obsessives among them - have somehow acquired a wildly inaccurate understanding of our system.

Great post! Again, apparently none of these mewling nevertrumpers can be bothered to sully themselves by watching one of his speeches. Last night's Austin appearance was very good. The individual speeches given by the victim's mothers were powerful. After they finished he hugged each one and promised he wouldn't let them down.

Poor nevertrumpers gotta get eyeballs on their websites somehow. NR was getting its ass handed to it in the comments on their Hillary corruption story today, so that was fun reading.

Posted by: Bernette at August 24, 2016 05:37 PM (ru2SK)

497 BRYON YORK: "What did that mean, precisely?"

It seems he wants Trump to announce today the stance that he will have at the end of the negotiations. Um, has Mr. York ever participated in high-stakes negotiation? Good Lord, even the signed agreement just establishes the basis for future negotiation: there is no 'end'; there is no precise meaning.

What Mr. York is asking is for Donald Trump to negotiated against himself. Good luck with that one, sir.

Posted by: LCMS Rulz! at August 24, 2016 05:42 PM (o7l6R)

498 @496

No Doubt. AoS should be promoting Trump and his rallies instead of posting 'concerning' or demoralizing threads such as this one.

Posted by: Jasper at August 24, 2016 05:42 PM (NZgmf)

499 Sheesh, y'all really wore me out. This is the last nonsense post I follow to the end. Suffice to say, though my vote doesn't count Guam - Territory, no electors), y'all have me leaning to donate more to Trump. Noise and gullibility; no longer appalled by the morons, now just simply embarrassed.

Posted by: Guaman at August 24, 2016 06:05 PM (OMMdV)

500 If an illegal crosses and isn't observed, he can claim he's been here for years and get a pass (a hearing date which he won't show up for), even if he's caught 10 feet from the border.

Obama has gutted normal enforcement and doesn't even deport viscous criminals like he promised. Even his "higher rate" of deportations is an accounting trick--they changed the way deportations are counted.

To simply enforce the laws on the books would be a sea change. Trump is just signaling to moderate voters that he's not going to go all Elian Gonzales on people. The Media is trying to whip up dissension--"He let you down!"

Funny--they never said how all the other politicians we're 'letting us down' by failing to enforce the law or even subverting it.

Don't fall for it.

Posted by: The Gipper Lives at August 24, 2016 08:10 PM (Ndje9)

501 With all due respect Ace, you don't understand Trump voters (Note I didn't say supporters) what-so-ever. You are lost in the woods.

Posted by: Yan Yanson from Wi. at August 24, 2016 09:04 PM (fO+6C)

502 Jesus...stop the whining. You are expecting Trump to fix a democrat created problem (that took decades to create) over night!?!?

Build the damn wall to keep illegals out...enforce the EXISTING laws...ensure you know EVERYTHING about a refugee asking to come in to your country...then deal with the long term illegals. All these things will take time to correct.

On the other hand, HRC's plan includes flooding your country with even MORE illegal immigrants and worst of all, accepting every man and their refugee dog WITHOUT background checks (ask Germany how thats working out for them).

You have a choice. HRC or The Donald but what ever you do don't come crying to me, Argentina, if you select HRC and expect rainbows and unicorns under your christmas tree.

Mailman

Posted by: Mailman at August 25, 2016 09:20 AM (jKZts)

503 Trump is not consistent or someone who thinks before he acts. Trumps new manager Kellyanne is a former employee/contact worker for Zuckerbergs FWD.US.. the major amnesty pimping organisation. This is all over now. Trump has no real knowledge, he has only instinct.. which is as often wrong as it is right.

He as a creature of habit latches onto those seeking to attach themselves to his largess whom he can delegate to, and then lets them do as they please until they either fail him, become a liability or even more commonly,.. he sticks his size 11 in his own mouth and he 'shakes up' a hired advisor lineup to distract from his own failure. This is how folks like Lewandowski.. who had no real apparent benefit to offer anyone beyond his own self promotion.. got placed in charge of his campaign even as he failed to have any experience, plan.. or idea what he should or could do beyond being overly intense.

Trump was already going to lose which i realized before the primary even ended and I say that as someone who hated Cruz and Farino as the abomination rivaling only Clinton.

Trump has destroyed himself with Kellyannes' exhumed Bush amnesty being regurgitated, I doubt he realizes she dusted off the stock Bush/Zuckerberg amnesty, let alone understands she has ruined his chances. Kellyanne and Trump cannot gain any new votes with their betrayal. they will ONLY lose votes they had locked in - like ME.

I think Trumps basic goal is nothing more than to redeem himself as a viable Pop media persona after / when he loses, and to adopt the Bush amnesty of the big corporate donors almost entirely to avoid spending his OWN money heading to the loss. He wants the adelson cash and other CoC donors to fund the ad buys that he holds out hope could somehow carry the day for him

Trump has thrown away my inclination to even bother voting for him with his amnesty sell out, and he will now lose more of his existing base with Kellyanne Conwayscum shifting him to the Bush amnesty plan. It was clear he was heading this way by picking Pence who brings ZERO of value to anyone but Globalists and funders.

Nigel Farage is a good example of what our real future is - not amnesty trump. Its going to be a movement to end the empire and peacefully, legally secede into TRULY representative govts in states or regions that are sized to accomodate distinct cultures and peoples with actual common cause and family ties
.
Here is the slogan = ''If you are not free to leave - you are not free''

Posted by: D Boon at August 25, 2016 11:29 AM (iO0nM)

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