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Peggy Noonan: How Globalists Forsake Their Countrymen
I have a lot -- a lot -- to say about this.
For now, I'll just quote Noonan:Compare to my frequent complaint that our self-styled elites -- who are so elite and expert they have set the world on fire -- view their real job to be managing the passions of their unaccomplished underlings -- you know, the people who actually do everything in the country.
How Global Elites Forsake Their Countrymen
Those in power see people at the bottom as aliens whose bizarre emotions they must try to manage.
Passage about Angela Merkel -- who will not be affected by mass immigration into Germany -- showing her virtue by allowing mass immigration into Germany, omitted.
This is about distance, and detachment, and a kind of historic decoupling between the top and the bottom in the West that did not, in more moderate recent times, exist.
... Nothing in their lives will get worse. The challenge of integrating different cultures, negotiating daily tensions, dealing with crime and extremism and fearfulness on the street--that was put on those with comparatively little, whom I’ve called the unprotected. They were left to struggle, not gradually and over the years but suddenly and in an air of ongoing crisis that shows no signs of ending--because nobody cares about them enough to stop it.Back in the 1960s, I believe, Whittaker Chambers reviewed Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged (or one of her books) in the National Review. Appalled by Rand's absolute insistence that she owed nothing -- not even sympathy -- to her struggling fellow countrymen, Chambers observed that Rand's prescription for the poor seemed to be nothing but "To a gas chamber, go." You have no economic usefulness to us; now do your duty and trudge off like a lame and old elephant. Find a nice field of bones to lie down and die in. Lately I've been seeing this hard-edged "Go fuck yourself, Poorz" Randism emanating from many quarters on the right -- from people who previously had declared themselves to be "patriotic." Faced with Trump's declaration that he'd favor, get this, current American workers over incoming foreign challengers, some declare that we should have no favoritism of one over the other, that it should all be merit-based and based on whoever will work the cheapest. There are, in this telling, absolutely no privileges for membership in the Club American. What is strange is that those now declaring this simultaneously expect US cops and servicement to defend them from threats foreign and domestic -- but why should they, if we have no obligations running towards each other -- and of course they completely favor rejiggering the law to give American corporations an advantage against foreign competitors. Get that? US working stiffs should get no legal advantages over foreign challengers, but of course US corporations should get subsidies and the intervention of the State Department. Mitt Romney had it all wrong -- corporations are not people. Corporations are better that people. I've written at my absolute bafflement in this bizarre inversion in what "conservatism" means as far as patriotism. Post 2001, liberals made the claim that foreigners who died as collateral deaths in justified attacks on terrorist targets were just as important as the 3000 who died on 9/11. No they're not, we answered. First of all, the victims of 9/11 were intentional murder victims. Civilian casualties due to justifiable strikes on military targets are regrettable -- but not intentional. But also, we said, you are wrong because you are denying that Americans should hold other Americans in a special place in their heart, above all other people. Not because Americans are necessarily better than foreign citizens -- but just because those within the family are, naturally, more the objects of our sympathy and concern to those without it. We even had a name for people who claimed that no American should view another American as having any special pull on his sympathy or loyalty -- transnational progressives. Progressives -- note that; we did not call them "conservative transnationals" -- whose loyaties were to some ill-defined transnational Citizen of the World sort of idea, rather than to the country, or one's fellow countrymen. Indeed, many of us thought this was rather un-conservative. Very progressive in fact. Many of us -- less me, but others sharing my view - pointed out that the natural hierachy of loyalties emanated out from the person in growing ciricles -- first loyalty, to the immediae family; then to the extended family and friends; then to the community; then to the nation; then to allied nations; and then only finally to the world at large. That is plainly the conservative view of loyalty and patriotism. That doesn't mean it's the only one -- the transnational progressive view has its adherents -- but there is no arguing that that is not the conservative, traditional view of the growing sphere of loyalty and duty. From one's own, outwards. But now we have people like the Wall Street Journal's Brett Stephens claiming, preposterously, that transnational progressivism -- where no American should have any advantage over any foreigner in any sphere (except in the corporate sphere, of course) -- is the default "Reaganite" idea which has been core conservative doctrine for 40 years:
The powerful show no particular sign of worrying about any of this. When the working and middle class pushed back in shocked indignation, the people on top called them “xenophobic,” “narrow-minded,” “racist.” The detached, who made the decisions and bore none of the costs, got to be called “humanist,” “compassionate,” and “hero of human rights.” ... The larger point is that this is something we are seeing all over, the top detaching itself from the bottom, feeling little loyalty to it or affiliation with it. It is a theme I see working its way throughout the West’s power centers. At its heart it is not only a detachment from, but a lack of interest in, the lives of your countrymen, of those who are not at the table, and who understand that they’ve been abandoned by their leaders’ selfishness and mad virtue-signalling.
... From what I’ve seen of those in power throughout business and politics now, the people of your country are not your countrymen, they’re aliens whose bizarre emotions you must attempt occasionally to anticipate and manage.
But Mr. Hannity's tantrum obscures the uglier side of what he is trying to do, which is to paint targets on the GOP’s genuine Reaganites--pro-trade, pro-immigration, pro-NATO, pro-entitlement reform--and replace them with the Party of Trump--anti-all of the above--no matter what happens to the candidate come November.Excuse me? Transnational progressivism -- fidelity only to a transnational cult of like-minded fellows who have stripped themselves of the baggage of base nationality and patritism -- has been the standard "Reaganite," conservative view of the world for 40 years? Are you speaking of this planet? I suppose we should excuse Mr. Stephen's excitability on this point -- the Wall Street Journal notoriously ran the same article on Open Borders every single year -- a short piece declaring that the United States policy on borders should be simply "There shall be open borders" -- on every single July 4th. You might not have seen that lately -- they stopped running that after 9/11, when some people who took advantage of our nation's wonderful open borders got into some planes and crashed them into the borders of the World Trade Center and Pentagon. But I guess, just as liberals stopped pretending a couple of years after 9/11 that they were particularly bothered by it, it's now time for the transnational progressives of the corporate right to begin flying their freak flags again. Can I ask a question of the people who keep telling me they are Really Good At Politics(TM)?: If you're basically telling American workers you plan to simply replace them with cheaper imports and they can move to Mexico where prices are cheaper if they don't like it- - um, how exactly do you get them to vote for you? And, um, they still having the vote -- I assume you are not planning to strip it from them via a Randian measure stating that one must have a college education and clear $90,000 a year to have the right to vote -- why would they just not start voting Democrat en masse? i mean, sure, Hillary's promising her corporate clients she'll import replacement workers for these unreasonable Americans, too, but at least the Democrats promise a luxurious life on the public dole. What's the Wall Street Journal promising them? Oh yeah -- changing the law to make it easier to bring in H2B workers to replace American workers so that American corporations have an easier time competing against foreign challengers. Sounds like corporations are due some cash-money Protection by the government, but it would be "anti-capitalist" to similarly change immigration laws to protect American workers. Gee -- I wonder why the Establishment lost any kind of control over its onetime base.
Comments
(Jump to bottom of comments)1
whoo.
Posted by: ajmojo at August 12, 2016 04:10 PM (1H9ox)
2
I agree with Ace Johnson!
-Howard Johnson
-Howard Johnson
Posted by: rickb223 TEXIT at August 12, 2016 04:14 PM (UYkjZ)
3
I read Peggy Noonan and I immediately lost interest. Not your fault ace.
Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck at August 12, 2016 04:14 PM (+P27u)
4
Kevin Williamson at NRO is a particulatly loathsome proponent of the transnational progressive perspective.
Kevin Williamson at NRO is a particulatly loathsome proponent of the transnational progressive perspective.
Posted by: Krebs v Carnot: Epic Battle of the Cycling Stars (TM) at August 12, 2016 04:15 PM (BK3ZS)
5
The Brahmans are not to interact with the Dalits.
Posted by: Paul Ryan Explaining the Republican Caste System at August 12, 2016 04:15 PM (ndGCC)
6
I call them International Socialists. They're just the same as the other movement they share a lot of syllables with.
Posted by: Cato the Rebel Without a Party at August 12, 2016 04:15 PM (HalrA)
7
What up?
Posted by: Diogenes at August 12, 2016 04:15 PM (r65B3)
8
Its truly the history of mankind
Posted by: Skip at August 12, 2016 04:16 PM (bksJQ)
9
"Lately I've been seeing this hard-edged "Go fuck yourself, Poorz" Randism emanating from many quarters on the right -- from people who previously had declared themselves to be "patriotic.""
I'm sure some have gone the "don't care" way but a lot of it for me has been "fight you miserable shits! fight to work, fight for your culture!" The nation has been embracing poor people right into dependency and a sick culture is forming. I don't see a way to fight that by the traditional "more free shit for the poor!" so I come off like I'm a cold hearted SOB because I want my countrymen to fight like hell. I know doing this they will improve themselves, their communities and their nation. My lot in life has been amazing and I wish it for every single person but it wasn't given to me, I had to work hard for it.
I'm sure some have gone the "don't care" way but a lot of it for me has been "fight you miserable shits! fight to work, fight for your culture!" The nation has been embracing poor people right into dependency and a sick culture is forming. I don't see a way to fight that by the traditional "more free shit for the poor!" so I come off like I'm a cold hearted SOB because I want my countrymen to fight like hell. I know doing this they will improve themselves, their communities and their nation. My lot in life has been amazing and I wish it for every single person but it wasn't given to me, I had to work hard for it.
Posted by: allenlou at August 12, 2016 04:16 PM (+aCe4)
10
I've been saying essentially, this, for several weeks now. It's why I went from a reluctant, possible Trump voter to a whole-hearted supporter.
Posted by: BurtTC at August 12, 2016 04:16 PM (TOk1P)
11
"Let's roll." - Maximilian Robespierre to Louis XVI
Posted by: *Mikey NTH - Know Your Place! The Outrage Outlet has Official DNC Oppression Hierarchy Cards! at August 12, 2016 04:16 PM (hLRSq)
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at August 12, 2016 04:16 PM (9P3OG)
13
The elites need unlimited immigration, because eventually the rubes in the country will figure out all those government handouts and bailouts are coming out of their pockets and stop it...unless there is a new electorate to replace them first...
Posted by: 18-1 at August 12, 2016 04:17 PM (X7E8f)
14
Dave Bratt called, to say "we still have elections!"
Posted by: MTF at August 12, 2016 04:17 PM (/m8T6)
15
Reagan believed in promoting America so that the rest of the world would become like us, not in making us like the rest of the world.
Posted by: Cato the Rebel Without a Party at August 12, 2016 04:17 PM (HalrA)
16
Appalled by Rand's absolute insistence that she owed nothing -- not even sympathy -- to her struggling fellow countrymen, Chambers observed that Rand's prescription for the poor seemed to be nothing but "To a gas chamber, go."
Yeah, this is a basic problem I have with Rand and Objectivism. Its great at diagnosing problems and embracing liberty. But its an ideology that only really works for the healthy, wealthy, and young.
But overall, I agree: the elites are utterly disinterested in their own people, culture, or nation. Only in their own power. They are in their own way collectivists, viewing people as beneath them who serve their needs and interests, not as fellows and countrymen.
Yeah, this is a basic problem I have with Rand and Objectivism. Its great at diagnosing problems and embracing liberty. But its an ideology that only really works for the healthy, wealthy, and young.
But overall, I agree: the elites are utterly disinterested in their own people, culture, or nation. Only in their own power. They are in their own way collectivists, viewing people as beneath them who serve their needs and interests, not as fellows and countrymen.
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at August 12, 2016 04:18 PM (39g3+)
17
You want to know why I believe on Election Day Trump will probably win? This^.
I believe people see just how far the "government of the people" is detached from those they are meant to serve.
They've somehow become our "betters", guiding their underlings and dupes along the lighted path.
People have had enough of them and their praetorian guard in the press.
The voting booth can't call you a racist or xenophobic.
I believe people see just how far the "government of the people" is detached from those they are meant to serve.
They've somehow become our "betters", guiding their underlings and dupes along the lighted path.
People have had enough of them and their praetorian guard in the press.
The voting booth can't call you a racist or xenophobic.
Posted by: Marcus T at August 12, 2016 04:18 PM (MktOj)
18
When I was young and frankly fanatically patriotic, I had the mentality of 'My Country, right or wrong' and expressed a willingness to die to protect any American, even those who were my enemies.
I guess as I got older and those in positions of power in my country became contemptible, that changed.
Now I don't say 'fuck the poor', I do believe in equality of opportunity. But I don't feel like raising a hand to aid The Elites or those who don't even try to help themselves. You can't save everyone and you can't fix stupid/selfishness/evil.
I take care of my friends and family and that's it. I expect the war years to come soon and I'm old now.
I guess as I got older and those in positions of power in my country became contemptible, that changed.
Now I don't say 'fuck the poor', I do believe in equality of opportunity. But I don't feel like raising a hand to aid The Elites or those who don't even try to help themselves. You can't save everyone and you can't fix stupid/selfishness/evil.
I take care of my friends and family and that's it. I expect the war years to come soon and I'm old now.
Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at August 12, 2016 04:18 PM (NdM46)
19
Well done
Posted by: thathalfrican - at work at August 12, 2016 04:19 PM (mlxtM)
20
13
The elites need unlimited immigration, because eventually the rubes in
the country will figure out all those government handouts and bailouts
are coming out of their pockets and stop it...unless there is a new
electorate to replace them first...
Posted by: 18-1 at August 12, 2016 04:17 PM (X7E8f)
Occasionally the far left accidentally gives away the plan.
Originally thought of as satire, Bertolt Brecht's "The Solution" gave away this one. To paraphrase: (the government) stated that the workers have lost the confidence of the government, and must redouble their efforts to earn it back. Would it not be easier, then, to dissolve the people and elect another?
The elites need unlimited immigration, because eventually the rubes in
the country will figure out all those government handouts and bailouts
are coming out of their pockets and stop it...unless there is a new
electorate to replace them first...
Posted by: 18-1 at August 12, 2016 04:17 PM (X7E8f)
Occasionally the far left accidentally gives away the plan.
Originally thought of as satire, Bertolt Brecht's "The Solution" gave away this one. To paraphrase: (the government) stated that the workers have lost the confidence of the government, and must redouble their efforts to earn it back. Would it not be easier, then, to dissolve the people and elect another?
Posted by: Cato the Rebel Without a Party at August 12, 2016 04:19 PM (HalrA)
21
Noonan get's a thing or two right now and than.She got one thing hugely,gigantically ,Hope Solo's asshole,wrong though.
Posted by: steevy at August 12, 2016 04:19 PM (fA75F)
22
ace, you're on fire lately. Spot on.
Posted by: Jollyroger at August 12, 2016 04:19 PM (t06LC)
23
Peggy is a hack.
Posted by: Eleanor Clit at August 12, 2016 04:19 PM (FXW24)
24
Just when the lightning puns were starting to really strike in the last thread
Posted by: buzzion at August 12, 2016 04:19 PM (z/Ubi)
25
It would be nice if we could have national level politicians who were more concerned about the welfare of American citizens than the welfare of foreigners. - Me, last year, trying to explain why Donald Trump hit it so big and the other candidates didn't.
Posted by: *Mikey NTH - Know Your Place! The Outrage Outlet has Official DNC Oppression Hierarchy Cards! at August 12, 2016 04:20 PM (hLRSq)
26
I would like to direct Brett Stephen's attention to a speech given by Ronald Reagan in 1964. It is popularly called, "A Time For Choosing," and can be found on YouTube.
And after you watch it, go home and get your fvcking shine box.
And after you watch it, go home and get your fvcking shine box.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at August 12, 2016 04:20 PM (Zu3d9)
27
Rand's prescription for the poor seemed to be nothing but "To a gas chamber, go."
I think I just came.
I think I just came.
Posted by: Kevin D. Williamson at August 12, 2016 04:20 PM (u0s1P)
28
For people trying like hell to understand whats happening among the decision makers at the top, it truly is a case of follow the money.
For example, every baffling inhuman thing I've seen the Democrats sell... follow the money. Always follow it and you will never lose.
It even turned out there is a baby parts industry. Something previously unfathomable to us proles. You will never lose just guessing there is money leading the decision makers.
For example, every baffling inhuman thing I've seen the Democrats sell... follow the money. Always follow it and you will never lose.
It even turned out there is a baby parts industry. Something previously unfathomable to us proles. You will never lose just guessing there is money leading the decision makers.
Posted by: at at at at at August 12, 2016 04:20 PM (zFuwk)
29
Controlling immigration is, first and foremost, about proving the government can control its own borders.
That gets lost in these emotional days, but until we know for a fact government can effectively manage immigration this dispute is essentially meaningless.
The default position is open borders, or close to it, and absent an effective administration of the law that's all we have. Passing theoretical limits or conditions on immigration through Congress means essentially nothing.
That gets lost in these emotional days, but until we know for a fact government can effectively manage immigration this dispute is essentially meaningless.
The default position is open borders, or close to it, and absent an effective administration of the law that's all we have. Passing theoretical limits or conditions on immigration through Congress means essentially nothing.
Posted by: MTF at August 12, 2016 04:20 PM (/m8T6)
30
It's about the Borg, which is BigGov, MSM and Academia, which is melding. BigBiz is increasingly part of this, often depending on industry, and is now allying with the Cultural Left.
The Borg wants to get bigger, and borders get in the way.
BigBiz is often transnational in scope, and wants cheaper costs.
The Borg wants to get bigger, and borders get in the way.
BigBiz is often transnational in scope, and wants cheaper costs.
Posted by: Ignoramus at August 12, 2016 04:20 PM (r1fLd)
31
You want to know why I believe on Election Day Trump will probably win? This
If Trump does actually win, I agree, that will be what puts him over the top. That and the basic feeling that things are going terribly wrong in the country and we need to change directions.
If Trump does actually win, I agree, that will be what puts him over the top. That and the basic feeling that things are going terribly wrong in the country and we need to change directions.
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at August 12, 2016 04:21 PM (39g3+)
32
All one really needs to do is look at the H1B visa program and how it's abused. The reason it's abused is that our politicians are only worried about keeping their corporate donors happy and getting that sweet sweet campaign cash so they can keep getting elected and getting more power. I know that might come off as some kind of occutard type statement but it's the sad reality of where we are today. It's one of the reasons that Trump is resonating with people.
Posted by: Minnfidel at August 12, 2016 04:21 PM (8dC42)
33
26 I would like to direct Brett Stephen's attention to a speech given by Ronald Reagan in 1964. It is popularly called, "A Time For Choosing," and can be found on YouTube.
And after you watch it, go home and get your fvcking shine box.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at August 12, 2016 04:20 PM (Zu3d9)
Brett will have someone else get it for him. Cheaper.
And after you watch it, go home and get your fvcking shine box.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at August 12, 2016 04:20 PM (Zu3d9)
Brett will have someone else get it for him. Cheaper.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at August 12, 2016 04:21 PM (9P3OG)
34
Ace, these transnational progressives think the outsiders - refugees and immigrants - should be treated better than citizens. Here, and in Europe.
Tow examples:
--- Twin Falls Idaho, where Chobani would rather hire refugees than Americans, and they have government sponsored orgs who support this. (see Geller's Breitbart posts)
--- Calais and other towns where locals are being evicted to house refugees, where locals can be abused by refugees and they are counseled to cover up, don't walk at night, etc,.
http://gatesofvienna.net/2016/02/calais-we-are-finished-we-are-dead/
Tow examples:
--- Twin Falls Idaho, where Chobani would rather hire refugees than Americans, and they have government sponsored orgs who support this. (see Geller's Breitbart posts)
--- Calais and other towns where locals are being evicted to house refugees, where locals can be abused by refugees and they are counseled to cover up, don't walk at night, etc,.
http://gatesofvienna.net/2016/02/calais-we-are-finished-we-are-dead/
Posted by: Lizzy at August 12, 2016 04:21 PM (NOIQH)
35
It's mainly that free trade has been official conservative dogma for a while, and the Reagan amnesty (when there were way less illegals,) + the reduction of Reagan to generic optimism and patriotism as he's faded into historical memory. This misses a lot but it allows WSJ types to say they're upholding his legacy with their version of conservatism.
If nothing else Trump has at least been useful for showing how little current voters care about this stuff
If nothing else Trump has at least been useful for showing how little current voters care about this stuff
Posted by: Talk at August 12, 2016 04:21 PM (VhVgC)
Posted by: Krebs v Carnot: Epic Battle of the Cycling Stars (TM) at August 12, 2016 04:21 PM (BK3ZS)
37
"Many of us -- less me, but others sharing my view - pointed out that the natural hierachy of loyalties emanated out from the person in growing ciricles -- first loyalty, to the immediae family; then to the extended family and friends; then to the community; then to the nation; then to allied nations; and then only finally to the world at large"
This is basically Aristotle's teaching on friendship in the Nic. Ethics. When I teach it, it always sounds scandalous to my students, but they quickly see the (common) sense of it.
This is basically Aristotle's teaching on friendship in the Nic. Ethics. When I teach it, it always sounds scandalous to my students, but they quickly see the (common) sense of it.
Posted by: Some (TX) Asshole at August 12, 2016 04:23 PM (bYOfS)
38
Oh no, I just heard on the radio that Hope Solo and the gals got annihilated by the Swedish gals. Hope got reamed. Wrecked. There goes my Hope Diamond product idea. Glad I hadn't sunk any money in yet.
Posted by: publius (not Breitbart publius) at August 12, 2016 04:23 PM (DW+jj)
39
Is this the same Peggy Noonan that excoriated Palin in 2008 for making essentially the same argument?
Is this the same Peggy Noonan that excoriated Palin in 2008 for making essentially the same argument?
Posted by: IllTemperedCur at August 12, 2016 04:23 PM (xxSK3)
40
And, um, they still having the vote -- I assume you are not planning to strip it from them via a Randian measure stating that one must have a college education and clear $90,000 a year to have the right to vote -- why would they just not start voting Democrat en masse?
Because the Democrats aren't any better for them?
The moment a more polished and disciplined version of Trump turns up on the political scene, it will be game over.
Because the Democrats aren't any better for them?
The moment a more polished and disciplined version of Trump turns up on the political scene, it will be game over.
Posted by: Brother Cavil, down with Eph 6:12-13 at August 12, 2016 04:23 PM (9krrF)
41
This is pure poetry -
Here's Trump's spokeswoman Katrina Pierson giving it to one of the 'self-styled-elitists' in the media:
http://tinyurl.com/jhwd62q
Here's Trump's spokeswoman Katrina Pierson giving it to one of the 'self-styled-elitists' in the media:
http://tinyurl.com/jhwd62q
Posted by: RondinellaMamma at August 12, 2016 04:24 PM (oQQwD)
42
Rahm Emanuel almost found out about this problem when he was challenged for mayor by a Hispanic, and IIRC was running scared for a while.
Posted by: Jay Guevara at August 12, 2016 04:24 PM (SRKgf)
43
The argument of Utility is weaksauce.
Posted by: iKant at August 12, 2016 04:24 PM (c1srJ)
44
It's mainly that free trade has been official conservative dogma for a while...
Posted by: Talk at August 12, 2016 04:21 PM (VhVgC)
Yes, "free trade" is traditional conservative dogma. Too bad what the Globalizationists are practicing is NOT free trade, but a bastardized, fascist version thereof.
Posted by: Talk at August 12, 2016 04:21 PM (VhVgC)
Yes, "free trade" is traditional conservative dogma. Too bad what the Globalizationists are practicing is NOT free trade, but a bastardized, fascist version thereof.
Posted by: BurtTC at August 12, 2016 04:24 PM (TOk1P)
45
"For example, every baffling inhuman thing I've seen the Democrats sell... follow the money. Always follow it and you will never lose."
I followed the money and I'm in Hillary's! bathroom and it is scary and damp and it smells like old lady and cats and fish and...someone's coming!
Lord Jesus, save me!
I followed the money and I'm in Hillary's! bathroom and it is scary and damp and it smells like old lady and cats and fish and...someone's coming!
Lord Jesus, save me!
Posted by: *Mikey NTH - Know Your Place! The Outrage Outlet has Official DNC Oppression Hierarchy Cards! at August 12, 2016 04:25 PM (hLRSq)
46
"Not because Americans are necessarily better than foreign citizens -- but just because those within the family are, naturally, more the objects of our sympathy and concern to those without it."
That's the only line I disagree with. Americans ARE necessarily better than foreign citizens, or were. Not necessarily as individuals, but in the aggregrate because of one thing. Americans, and sometimes this takes a generation or two, tended to not want to be protected and nannied by the "lord" or, here, the government. It made for more freedom, more independence, more liberty, more exceptionalism. Many immigrants spend a generation or two living in the "shadow of the castle."
That's the only line I disagree with. Americans ARE necessarily better than foreign citizens, or were. Not necessarily as individuals, but in the aggregrate because of one thing. Americans, and sometimes this takes a generation or two, tended to not want to be protected and nannied by the "lord" or, here, the government. It made for more freedom, more independence, more liberty, more exceptionalism. Many immigrants spend a generation or two living in the "shadow of the castle."
Posted by: dagny at August 12, 2016 04:25 PM (eSQgj)
47
So were all a bunch of rubes? Fine I prefer it to the alternative lib moonbattiness.. I wear it as a badge of honor!
Posted by: donna at August 12, 2016 04:25 PM (O2RFr)
48
31 Posted by: Christopher Taylor at August 12, 2016 04:21 PM (39g3+)
Bloomberg poll:
Which statement closely mirrors your perception?
A) the country is a disaster economically and we are weak and in danger from threats here and abroad.
B) the country is doing better and our foreign policy and security have never been better.
57% agree with A.
39% agree with B.
4% not sure.
A is what Trump said, B Clinton.
That might predict November right there.
Bloomberg poll:
Which statement closely mirrors your perception?
A) the country is a disaster economically and we are weak and in danger from threats here and abroad.
B) the country is doing better and our foreign policy and security have never been better.
57% agree with A.
39% agree with B.
4% not sure.
A is what Trump said, B Clinton.
That might predict November right there.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at August 12, 2016 04:26 PM (9P3OG)
49
This reminds me of a swim club my parents joined when I was a child. Families paid x dollars for a summer membership. Membership was not limited and only on the hottest days of the year would the pool be filled.
But the owner of the pool got greedy. He contracted with a local day camp to bring in busloads of children at a reduced rate, thereby filling the pool. The people who paid full price got pissed off that 'day trippers' were filling the pool.
It got reported that the 'n' word was used in referencing the 'day trippers'. When all was said and done the owners of the pool had to pay a million dollars to the 'day trippers' and the pool owner went bankrupt.
Moral of story is don't be greedy. Dance with them that brung ya.
But the owner of the pool got greedy. He contracted with a local day camp to bring in busloads of children at a reduced rate, thereby filling the pool. The people who paid full price got pissed off that 'day trippers' were filling the pool.
It got reported that the 'n' word was used in referencing the 'day trippers'. When all was said and done the owners of the pool had to pay a million dollars to the 'day trippers' and the pool owner went bankrupt.
Moral of story is don't be greedy. Dance with them that brung ya.
Posted by: free range 'sorta' conservative but not 'true' conservative at August 12, 2016 04:26 PM (ZnIt3)
50
38 Oh no, I just heard on the radio that Hope Solo and the gals got annihilated by the Swedish gals. Hope got reamed. Wrecked. There goes my Hope Diamond product idea. Glad I hadn't sunk any money in yet.
Posted by: publius (not Breitbart publius) at August 12, 2016 04:23 PM (DW+jj)
Rectum you say?
Posted by: publius (not Breitbart publius) at August 12, 2016 04:23 PM (DW+jj)
Rectum you say?
Posted by: Jollyroger at August 12, 2016 04:26 PM (t06LC)
51
@3 I read Peggy Noonan and I immediately lost interest. Not your fault ace.
----------------------
That might be a mistake in this case.
Peggy Noonan doesn't like Trump. That's not disputable. But she *does* appear to understand why Trump appeals to so many. That was made clear with her op-ed pieces on Trump last summer in the Wall Street Journal. Her second piece went so far as to highlight that a good-sized chunk of Trump's support was coming from Spanish-speaking legal immigrants..
She doesn't like him, but she understands why people are voting for him.
----------------------
That might be a mistake in this case.
Peggy Noonan doesn't like Trump. That's not disputable. But she *does* appear to understand why Trump appeals to so many. That was made clear with her op-ed pieces on Trump last summer in the Wall Street Journal. Her second piece went so far as to highlight that a good-sized chunk of Trump's support was coming from Spanish-speaking legal immigrants..
She doesn't like him, but she understands why people are voting for him.
Posted by: junior at August 12, 2016 04:26 PM (amCAe)
52
one rational take on all this is that liberals and globalists ARE NOT Americans, and should not be considered as so, for what happens in the future
Posted by: Grad School Fool at August 12, 2016 04:26 PM (swEzU)
53
Too bad Noonan didn't figure this out a long time ago, like before she became an Obama supporter.
Posted by: sock_rat_eez at August 12, 2016 04:26 PM (gUoN4)
54
Is this the same Peggy Noonan that excoriated Palin in 2008 for making essentially the same argument?
Posted by: IllTemperedCur at August 12, 2016 04:23 PM (xxSK3)
The very same. I don't much read her type anyway, but I'd say it's about time to stop ragging her for it. She was wrong. I'm pretty darned sure she knows it.
Posted by: IllTemperedCur at August 12, 2016 04:23 PM (xxSK3)
The very same. I don't much read her type anyway, but I'd say it's about time to stop ragging her for it. She was wrong. I'm pretty darned sure she knows it.
Posted by: BurtTC at August 12, 2016 04:26 PM (TOk1P)
55
Gilded Age 2.0
Posted by: DonG at August 12, 2016 04:27 PM (zfp2K)
56
And, um, they still having the vote -- I assume you are not planning to strip it from them via a Randian measure stating that one must have a college education and clear $90,000 a year to have the right to vote -- why would they just not start voting Democrat en masse?
Posted by: Ace at 04:08 PM
++++
Good point. Except that the Democrats hate us even worse.
Posted by: Ace at 04:08 PM
++++
Good point. Except that the Democrats hate us even worse.
Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at August 12, 2016 04:27 PM (R+30W)
57
The little history I have read I can understand that European leaders think the noble class having special privileges that extend when they visit other *royal courts* that peasants of any country just don't get is fine. Of course they all think they are in the nobility class themselves. *(the English or at least the Welsh subset, have always seemed to demand those who would be king/queen had better be good for the working freemen and merchants or out they go)
America was founded by religious purists and criminals sent off for indentured service to pay for their crimes --ie the extremists of Englishmen who wouldn't just accept royal class hierarchies. We never bought into that nobility vs peasants and the Founding Fathers came up with a system designed to protect "life liberty and property" for all, not just the royal class.
America was founded by religious purists and criminals sent off for indentured service to pay for their crimes --ie the extremists of Englishmen who wouldn't just accept royal class hierarchies. We never bought into that nobility vs peasants and the Founding Fathers came up with a system designed to protect "life liberty and property" for all, not just the royal class.
Posted by: Palerider at August 12, 2016 04:27 PM (dkExz)
58
>>This is basically Aristotle's teaching on friendship in the Nic. Ethics. When I teach it, it always sounds scandalous to my students, but they quickly see the (common) sense of it.
There are worse fates than knowing your Aristotle.
There are worse fates than knowing your Aristotle.
Posted by: garrett at August 12, 2016 04:27 PM (c1srJ)
59
>>For people trying like hell to understand whats happening among the
decision makers at the top, it truly is a case of follow the money.
Also, look at their closest aids or partner.
Obama has Valerie Jarrett, Hillary has Huma, Trudeau's closes aid is a muslim former immigration activist, and so on.
The woman who runs the program relocating refugees into the US, including Eritreans, Iraqis, Somalis, inTwin Falls, is a Clinton appointee, who - get this - married a Saudi.
http://preview.tinyurl.com/gqt5t55
Grover Norquist, who has been instrumental in getting the GOP involved in supporting muslims is married to a Palestinian.
It's a pattern...
decision makers at the top, it truly is a case of follow the money.
Also, look at their closest aids or partner.
Obama has Valerie Jarrett, Hillary has Huma, Trudeau's closes aid is a muslim former immigration activist, and so on.
The woman who runs the program relocating refugees into the US, including Eritreans, Iraqis, Somalis, inTwin Falls, is a Clinton appointee, who - get this - married a Saudi.
http://preview.tinyurl.com/gqt5t55
Grover Norquist, who has been instrumental in getting the GOP involved in supporting muslims is married to a Palestinian.
It's a pattern...
Posted by: Lizzy at August 12, 2016 04:27 PM (NOIQH)
60
Yup. Here's the thing. You can replace the working class as economic units. Import workers, export jobs, open every border and tear down every trade barrier.
And that might, strictly from the perspective of economic growth, be good policy (it isn't, but let's pretend.)
But how do you replace them as a part of your POLITICAL coalition? You either make concessions to them, even if it means 'free stuff for poorz' or you make even greater compromises in order to lure an equivalent-sized group of voters into the coalition to take their place.
You decide, WSJ (and, frankly, the "I worked for it, America is for Winners!' middle and upper middle classes.) Do you want to make a few concessions to the working class on immigration, trade, and maybe entitlements? Or do you want to make greater concessions to sign up Hispanics, or Indians, or gays, or soccer moms, etc.?
Because those are the choices, if you ever want to win another election.
And that might, strictly from the perspective of economic growth, be good policy (it isn't, but let's pretend.)
But how do you replace them as a part of your POLITICAL coalition? You either make concessions to them, even if it means 'free stuff for poorz' or you make even greater compromises in order to lure an equivalent-sized group of voters into the coalition to take their place.
You decide, WSJ (and, frankly, the "I worked for it, America is for Winners!' middle and upper middle classes.) Do you want to make a few concessions to the working class on immigration, trade, and maybe entitlements? Or do you want to make greater concessions to sign up Hispanics, or Indians, or gays, or soccer moms, etc.?
Because those are the choices, if you ever want to win another election.
Posted by: RichieC at August 12, 2016 04:27 PM (838ff)
61
I must be insane, because I never got anything like this from Ayn Rand's writing.
Frankly I was more than a little astonished at how patriotic she was. Far more so than George W Bush. She was the first writer I ever read who seemed to think that America was actually special.
And anyone who reads Atlas Shrugged and concludes that she had no sympathy for the poor did not actually read the book.
Frankly I was more than a little astonished at how patriotic she was. Far more so than George W Bush. She was the first writer I ever read who seemed to think that America was actually special.
And anyone who reads Atlas Shrugged and concludes that she had no sympathy for the poor did not actually read the book.
Posted by: WKL at August 12, 2016 04:27 PM (pC493)
Posted by: havildar-major at August 12, 2016 04:28 PM (jpW6t)
63
What happened to the common wisdom of "If you subsidize poverty, you will get more of it"? And while I generally feel good will towards my fellow Americans, I have to admit that I feel an increasing gulf growing between liberals and myself. Time was they preached they wanted to be left alone to their depravities, now they insist I celebrate them for it.
Posted by: Darth Randall at August 12, 2016 04:28 PM (6n332)
64
I THOUGHT WE WERE TALKING ABOUT GHOSTBUSTER?
Posted by: BEN ROETHLISBERGER at August 12, 2016 04:28 PM (hqZPQ)
65
"This is about distance, and detachment, and a kind of historic decoupling between the top and the bottom in the West that did not, in more moderate recent times, exist."
- - - -
I think Marx said the same thing...all that's missing is the Vanguard of the Proletariat to make the final push.
Recent Times isn't so much an issue here. Its the same old story of the human existence.
- - - -
I think Marx said the same thing...all that's missing is the Vanguard of the Proletariat to make the final push.
Recent Times isn't so much an issue here. Its the same old story of the human existence.
Posted by: Diogenes at August 12, 2016 04:28 PM (r65B3)
66
57% agree with A.
39% agree with B.
4% not sure.
A is what Trump said, B Clinton.
That might predict November right there.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at August 12, 2016 04:26 PM (9P3OG)
It could, but Trump must be an acceptable alternative. He has to meet the minimum standards test, and right now, like it or not, it doesn't look like he's doing. I hope he can buckle down, work his ass off and do it, but the devil you know sometimes is preferable to the devil you don't
57% agree with A.
39% agree with B.
4% not sure.
A is what Trump said, B Clinton.
That might predict November right there.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at August 12, 2016 04:26 PM (9P3OG)
It could, but Trump must be an acceptable alternative. He has to meet the minimum standards test, and right now, like it or not, it doesn't look like he's doing. I hope he can buckle down, work his ass off and do it, but the devil you know sometimes is preferable to the devil you don't
Posted by: Jollyroger at August 12, 2016 04:29 PM (t06LC)
67
Progressives are Consequentialists.
Consequentialists view every person and every action as a tool to achieve their goal(s).
Consequentialists view every person and every action as a tool to achieve their goal(s).
Posted by: garrett at August 12, 2016 04:29 PM (c1srJ)
68
F Peggy Noonan. She felated Obama in 2008 and she can just stay on her knees. Go away, old broad. I can't believe you wrote speeches for Reagan.
Posted by: SFGoth at August 12, 2016 04:29 PM (dZ756)
69
Not because Americans are necessarily better than foreign citizens -- but just because those within the family are, naturally, more the objects of our sympathy and concern to those without it.
Sure, your life is a series of concentric rings of concern like Some (TX) wrote about above. Its not because we don't like people, its because we only have so much time, attention, and emotion to give. It works very well: care most about those nearest you, and everyone benefits by having nearby people care best about them.
Its when that inverts and turns into contempt for those not around you that the problems start. Its reasonable and proper to have only limited concern for those most distant from you, but they still are fellow human beings and should get some of your affection, even if distant and small, unless they clearly and regularly demonstrate they deserve otherwise.
Sure, your life is a series of concentric rings of concern like Some (TX) wrote about above. Its not because we don't like people, its because we only have so much time, attention, and emotion to give. It works very well: care most about those nearest you, and everyone benefits by having nearby people care best about them.
Its when that inverts and turns into contempt for those not around you that the problems start. Its reasonable and proper to have only limited concern for those most distant from you, but they still are fellow human beings and should get some of your affection, even if distant and small, unless they clearly and regularly demonstrate they deserve otherwise.
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at August 12, 2016 04:29 PM (39g3+)
70
How anyone can think the country is on the right track boggles the mind.
Posted by: steevy at August 12, 2016 04:29 PM (fA75F)
71
The never Trump people are largely made up of this transnational group. They are also what we used to call corporatists who seek special favor through government. Those are largely Republican supporters who have told us it's our patriotic duty to support them for the good of the economy. You know, while they secretly sold us out for cheap foreign labor and tax breaks that ended up hurting the people paying most of the taxes.
Trump is an apostate to their church of transnational fraud, and they will fight it tooth and nail- as they are showing. Stephens has become the equivalent of MSNBC to the Liberals in this crusade, and their are others.
It's going to be an odd coalition, but there just might be enough to pull Trump over the line and crush these subversives.
Trump is an apostate to their church of transnational fraud, and they will fight it tooth and nail- as they are showing. Stephens has become the equivalent of MSNBC to the Liberals in this crusade, and their are others.
It's going to be an odd coalition, but there just might be enough to pull Trump over the line and crush these subversives.
Posted by: Marcus T at August 12, 2016 04:29 PM (MktOj)
72
She doesn't like him, but she understands why people are voting for him.
Posted by: junior at August 12, 2016 04:26 PM (amCAe)
In that she is far more perceptive than the rest of the punditocracy who fallback on cries of 'racism' and 'xenophobia' and every other insult rather than actually risk their viewpoints a little.
Posted by: junior at August 12, 2016 04:26 PM (amCAe)
In that she is far more perceptive than the rest of the punditocracy who fallback on cries of 'racism' and 'xenophobia' and every other insult rather than actually risk their viewpoints a little.
Posted by: *Mikey NTH - Know Your Place! The Outrage Outlet has Official DNC Oppression Hierarchy Cards! at August 12, 2016 04:30 PM (hLRSq)
73
Wow, I'm only in the double digits of comments? Must be a slow day. Anyway, our only hope now is that Trump totally cleans Hillary's clock in the debates.
If you remember, Romney totally wiped the floor with Obama in the first debate and surged into a slight lead. Then, however, we got the "bayonets" bullshit in the second debate and, of course, fatass Crowley jumped in and decided to lie about Obama to swing the second debate. And here we are in fuckedville.
If you remember, Romney totally wiped the floor with Obama in the first debate and surged into a slight lead. Then, however, we got the "bayonets" bullshit in the second debate and, of course, fatass Crowley jumped in and decided to lie about Obama to swing the second debate. And here we are in fuckedville.
Posted by: Dogstar at August 12, 2016 04:30 PM (ayX/Q)
74
Soccer I do not get. I see the US vs Sweden girls score was 1 to 1, yet Sweden is declared the winner. I don't get how it works.
So maybe Hope wuz robbed. Well, either way, pure girl is gonna be sore.
So maybe Hope wuz robbed. Well, either way, pure girl is gonna be sore.
Posted by: publius (not Breitbart publius) at August 12, 2016 04:30 PM (DW+jj)
75
Well said, though I think you may be oversimplifying Rand's outlook; she didn't intend for a society devoid of fellow feeling and community, she merely offered an (extreme) objection to the idea that she OWED something to someone else.
Largely I agree, in the sense that I have always been uncomfortable with the oft quoted "ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country" sentiment. There are (as Ace observes) groups to which I owe something involuntarily; they are my family and coreligionists (which is, after all, simply an extended family).
Then again, I'm both a Jew and a admirer of Rand/Objectivism, not a formal student. It may indeed be the case that it's rather more anarchic then I would really like.
Mitigating against that, I must say that if I had to choose between Yaron Brooks (head of the Ayn Rand Institute) and any of the people currently running for president, I would pick Brooks in a splintered second.
Largely I agree, in the sense that I have always been uncomfortable with the oft quoted "ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country" sentiment. There are (as Ace observes) groups to which I owe something involuntarily; they are my family and coreligionists (which is, after all, simply an extended family).
Then again, I'm both a Jew and a admirer of Rand/Objectivism, not a formal student. It may indeed be the case that it's rather more anarchic then I would really like.
Mitigating against that, I must say that if I had to choose between Yaron Brooks (head of the Ayn Rand Institute) and any of the people currently running for president, I would pick Brooks in a splintered second.
Posted by: HAMMER BT at August 12, 2016 04:31 PM (y0xhc)
76
My first border is my body, and [you] attempting to fuck with it. Call that the 10 ring.
The next border is my family's bodies. The 9 ring.
Next is my home's borders. The 8 ring.
Then my neighborhood's. etc etc
Saudi Arabia and Yemen fighting? It's not even ON my target; they are just plowing up the dirt around it.
Hillary has a nice wall around her NY estate. Another nice wall of SS agents around her and hubby's bodies.
The next border is my family's bodies. The 9 ring.
Next is my home's borders. The 8 ring.
Then my neighborhood's. etc etc
Saudi Arabia and Yemen fighting? It's not even ON my target; they are just plowing up the dirt around it.
Hillary has a nice wall around her NY estate. Another nice wall of SS agents around her and hubby's bodies.
Posted by: GnuBreed at August 12, 2016 04:31 PM (gyKtp)
77
Reagan believed in promoting America so that the rest of the world would become like us, not in making us like the rest of the world.
+++
An exemplar. A shining city on a hill. Not the porch light.
+++
An exemplar. A shining city on a hill. Not the porch light.
Posted by: Bigbys Olive Fingers at August 12, 2016 04:31 PM (0o/oP)
78
66 Posted by: Jollyroger at August 12, 2016 04:29 PM (t06LC)
You may be right, and I'm no Trump fanatic, but this election is unlike any other I've ever experienced. Palpable sense of urgency even from those who have never voted.
You may be right, and I'm no Trump fanatic, but this election is unlike any other I've ever experienced. Palpable sense of urgency even from those who have never voted.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at August 12, 2016 04:32 PM (9P3OG)
79
And anyone who reads Atlas Shrugged and concludes that she had no sympathy for the poor did not actually read the book.
Posted by: WKL
- - - -
Concur.
My take was that there was sympathy but more a call for self reliance. Roll up your sleeves and get to work. In this special land where anything is possible, make it happen.
Posted by: WKL
- - - -
Concur.
My take was that there was sympathy but more a call for self reliance. Roll up your sleeves and get to work. In this special land where anything is possible, make it happen.
Posted by: Diogenes at August 12, 2016 04:32 PM (r65B3)
80
Our Scout troop has performed a roadside cleanup each Spring for many years running. For three or more years now it has occurred in an area that might be considered the "chateau country" in northern Delaware (think Biden's neighborhood and vicinity).
After the last one of these, picking up trash alongside a road down which expensive vehicles were whizzing by, I declared this would be the last time we cleaned there -- let the swells pick up their own trash. There are plenty of places closer to home that we pass by every day that would benefit from our efforts and be more appreciated for them by people we know and see every day.
Our Scout troop has performed a roadside cleanup each Spring for many years running. For three or more years now it has occurred in an area that might be considered the "chateau country" in northern Delaware (think Biden's neighborhood and vicinity).
After the last one of these, picking up trash alongside a road down which expensive vehicles were whizzing by, I declared this would be the last time we cleaned there -- let the swells pick up their own trash. There are plenty of places closer to home that we pass by every day that would benefit from our efforts and be more appreciated for them by people we know and see every day.
Posted by: Krebs v Carnot: Epic Battle of the Cycling Stars (TM) at August 12, 2016 04:32 PM (BK3ZS)
81
I'll say this, in defense of the corporate boogeyman:
"...and of course they completely favor rejiggering the law to give American corporations an advantage against foreign competitors."
How have American corporations demanded an ADVANTAGE over competitors?
They seek to level the playing field -- and in many cases, they hold common cause with US workers: Both US manufacturers and their employees would love to see foreign competitors live up to the same environmental, safety, legal, and tax burdens that US companies must. Both would love to see China stop subsidizing Chinese manufacturers, buying their material for them, and then pegging their currency to the dollar to prevent their trade surplus from correcting itself with a shift in currency values.
In all of these cases, American companies don't seek an advantage -- they seek to reduce their disadvantage.
The only advantages that American companies have: They have a very well-educated, hard working pool of talent, and a (still) relatively stable, safe economy governed by the rule of law, with viable contracts and protection of ownership, compared to other countries. That's it -- other than those, they have no advantages.
Please show me where American corporations have sought an unfair advantage over foreign competitors. Maybe I've missed something.
Now, there are American corporations that seek an unfair advantage over other American corporations. Apple would love to keep manufacturing their devices in Chinese shit-holes where the workers are paid in rice, chained to the bench, and toxic waste is dumped into the pond out back. Maybe that's the sort of advantage-seeking you're talking about.
"...and of course they completely favor rejiggering the law to give American corporations an advantage against foreign competitors."
How have American corporations demanded an ADVANTAGE over competitors?
They seek to level the playing field -- and in many cases, they hold common cause with US workers: Both US manufacturers and their employees would love to see foreign competitors live up to the same environmental, safety, legal, and tax burdens that US companies must. Both would love to see China stop subsidizing Chinese manufacturers, buying their material for them, and then pegging their currency to the dollar to prevent their trade surplus from correcting itself with a shift in currency values.
In all of these cases, American companies don't seek an advantage -- they seek to reduce their disadvantage.
The only advantages that American companies have: They have a very well-educated, hard working pool of talent, and a (still) relatively stable, safe economy governed by the rule of law, with viable contracts and protection of ownership, compared to other countries. That's it -- other than those, they have no advantages.
Please show me where American corporations have sought an unfair advantage over foreign competitors. Maybe I've missed something.
Now, there are American corporations that seek an unfair advantage over other American corporations. Apple would love to keep manufacturing their devices in Chinese shit-holes where the workers are paid in rice, chained to the bench, and toxic waste is dumped into the pond out back. Maybe that's the sort of advantage-seeking you're talking about.
Posted by: Pastafarian at August 12, 2016 04:32 PM (sgHEm)
82
I have been fighting illegal immigration since the mid 80s, when you could tell California was going to become a cesspool if it didn't quit (and thought Reagan's 1986 amnesty would solve the problem. Good times, good times.) Jack Kemp called us all racists and ignorant fools. The state is now solid blue. I left California in 1997 - and I see the same thing happening in Virginia. It is unfortunate that Trump was the ONLY person talking about the problem. But con men tend to be able to figure out what motivates people. I'm pretty sure I'm going to hold my nose and vote for Trump, (the libertarians are worse than the Dems on immigration) but how insane is the GOP that they just can't bother to compete for that swath of voters??? People will even be OK with free trade if they aren't fighting illegal Somalis making third world hell holes of the town they are living in.
Posted by: MaureenTheTemp at August 12, 2016 04:32 PM (ePcUK)
83
About damn time someone who can write coherently (unlike me) laid it out nice and plain.
BRAVO, Ace.
I fought Libs/Dems for years telling them that the Republican party, via its policies , not the Dem party (via its handouts) was for the working man. BOY do I have egg on my face.......
Makes me really stop and think about what else I might have been wrong about regarding the R's
And now if you bring it up like "Hey, we've been voting for you for years, and we're hurting pretty badly, and it seems like we CONSTANTLY get to be at the back of the line.....could you please, kind sir, address some of our issues?" The only answer back you get is "Shut up you stupid racist" or "you stupid Christian" or "you privileged white boy"
BRAVO, Ace.
I fought Libs/Dems for years telling them that the Republican party, via its policies , not the Dem party (via its handouts) was for the working man. BOY do I have egg on my face.......
Makes me really stop and think about what else I might have been wrong about regarding the R's
And now if you bring it up like "Hey, we've been voting for you for years, and we're hurting pretty badly, and it seems like we CONSTANTLY get to be at the back of the line.....could you please, kind sir, address some of our issues?" The only answer back you get is "Shut up you stupid racist" or "you stupid Christian" or "you privileged white boy"
Posted by: FITP at August 12, 2016 04:32 PM (Mov1M)
84
Lord Jesus, save me!
Posted by: *Mikey NTH
--------
Start making wiping motions in the bathroom closet. You'll be fine.
Posted by: *Mikey NTH
--------
Start making wiping motions in the bathroom closet. You'll be fine.
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at August 12, 2016 04:32 PM (9mTYi)
85
Chambers observed that Rand's prescription for the poor seemed to be nothing but "To a gas chamber, go."
+++
In this, Rand is Sanger.
+++
In this, Rand is Sanger.
Posted by: Bigbys Olive Fingers at August 12, 2016 04:32 PM (0o/oP)
86
I have neighbors who lost their homes and other who wanted to retire here but now can't afford it. I have others who can't afford to send all of their children to college anymore. These are not poor people. They are upper and middle income people who are watching hope slip away.
They've all had enough of the Washington and politically correct crowd. They are more motivated than ever. I just hope it's enough to turn the corner.
They've all had enough of the Washington and politically correct crowd. They are more motivated than ever. I just hope it's enough to turn the corner.
Posted by: Marcus T at August 12, 2016 04:33 PM (MktOj)
87
Hell since the primaries in 2008 and the bailouts, the go off and die attitude has become mainstream within even close family members. Zero Empathy. None. People on the Left surrounded Obama. People on the Right surrounded the Bailouts, Big Business, Banks, cheap money, ext...
If you apposed both publically, you became a target. You were exiled.
Yeah there is a feeling in the air where my fellow countrymen just tell me to fuck off and die.
Now the feeling is more along the lines of you are not dying fatst enough so let us help you.
The disconnect has become pathological and rabid the past 8 years.
Eight years later,
If you apposed both publically, you became a target. You were exiled.
Yeah there is a feeling in the air where my fellow countrymen just tell me to fuck off and die.
Now the feeling is more along the lines of you are not dying fatst enough so let us help you.
The disconnect has become pathological and rabid the past 8 years.
Eight years later,
Posted by: Cactus of Liberty at August 12, 2016 04:33 PM (yhYmR)
88
Kevin Williamson at NRO is a particulatly loathsome proponent of the transnational progressive perspective.
Posted by: Krebs v Carnot
Amen to that. Or +1000 for the non God loving types.
Posted by: Krebs v Carnot
Amen to that. Or +1000 for the non God loving types.
Posted by: FITP at August 12, 2016 04:34 PM (Mov1M)
89
You misunderstand Rand. Rand believed that the individual lives for the individual as opposed to the Statist view that the individual lives for others. The view you espoused is the extreme view propagated by leftists to discredit Rand. When discussing Rand one must always be cognizant that her devil was the collective embodied by the State.
Posted by: Locke Common at August 12, 2016 04:34 PM (I6Am+)
90
Yo!
Posted by: Yo! at August 12, 2016 04:34 PM (uPt3V)
91
And anyone who reads Atlas Shrugged and concludes that she had no sympathy for the poor did not actually read the book.
Posted by: WKL
--
I agree. She abhorred the lazy and the leech.
Posted by: WKL
--
I agree. She abhorred the lazy and the leech.
Posted by: Vashta Nerada at August 12, 2016 04:34 PM (7ZVPa)
92
Rand is okay, but My favorite Documentary is Idiocracy... The writer sure did campfire America there!
Posted by: donna at August 12, 2016 04:34 PM (O2RFr)
93
I love Ayn Rand. Once of my favorite writers and thinkers.
My only critique of her is her disdain for religion.
I love Ayn Rand. Once of my favorite writers and thinkers.
My only critique of her is her disdain for religion.
Posted by: fixerupper at August 12, 2016 04:35 PM (8XRCm)
94
"Barack will never allow you to go back to your lives as usual, uninvolved, uninformed"
Posted by: The Mooch, 2008 at August 12, 2016 04:35 PM (gyKtp)
95
How anyone can think the country is on the right track boggles the mind.
Posted by: steevy at August 12, 2016 04:29 PM (fA75F)
Works for me! - John of Goldman-Sachs
Posted by: steevy at August 12, 2016 04:29 PM (fA75F)
Works for me! - John of Goldman-Sachs
Posted by: *Mikey NTH - Know Your Place! The Outrage Outlet has Official DNC Oppression Hierarchy Cards! at August 12, 2016 04:35 PM (hLRSq)
96
hmm. Maybe it's time to start a charity and award myself a Nobel.
Posted by: Fritz at August 12, 2016 04:35 PM (2Mnv1)
97
85 Chambers observed that Rand's prescription for the poor seemed to be nothing but "To a gas chamber, go."
+++
In this, Rand is Sanger.
Posted by: Bigbys Olive Fingers at August 12, 2016 04:32 PM (0o/oP
Rand was sisgnalling to the feminist movement maybe.
+++
In this, Rand is Sanger.
Posted by: Bigbys Olive Fingers at August 12, 2016 04:32 PM (0o/oP
Rand was sisgnalling to the feminist movement maybe.
Posted by: Cactus of Liberty at August 12, 2016 04:36 PM (yhYmR)
98
campfire =capture... damned auto cucumber! Although campfire does fit in a way...
Posted by: donna at August 12, 2016 04:36 PM (O2RFr)
99
She abhorred the lazy and the leech.
The problem is, everyone except the healthy and young fall into those categories, in her worldview.
You notice children are almost nonexistent in her books. And elderly.
The problem is, everyone except the healthy and young fall into those categories, in her worldview.
You notice children are almost nonexistent in her books. And elderly.
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at August 12, 2016 04:36 PM (39g3+)
100
Had the Olympics on, a Canadian woman won in Trampoline but there is a replay of the Birds/ Buccaneers NFL game on NFLNET
Posted by: Skip at August 12, 2016 04:37 PM (bksJQ)
101
Canadian woman won in Trampoline but there is a replay of the Birds/ Buccaneers NFL game on NFLNET
Girls on trampolines?
Girls on trampolines?
Posted by: donna at August 12, 2016 04:37 PM (O2RFr)
102
i started re-reading Atlas Shrugged again right after they let Shrillery off the hook.
Ayn didn't hate the poor: she hated the looters, and their self-created "victim" class... all productive w*rk is noble, hence many of the characters, to include John Galt himself, w*rking at menial tasks, both in Galt's Gulch, as well as in society at large.
her disdain was for those who despised and denigrated individual effort and achievement, as well as for those who embraced apathy and handouts. (today's FSA)
Ayn didn't hate the poor: she hated the looters, and their self-created "victim" class... all productive w*rk is noble, hence many of the characters, to include John Galt himself, w*rking at menial tasks, both in Galt's Gulch, as well as in society at large.
her disdain was for those who despised and denigrated individual effort and achievement, as well as for those who embraced apathy and handouts. (today's FSA)
Posted by: redc1c4 at August 12, 2016 04:37 PM (KSKy7)
103
Trump has a chance to win because Clinton is an evil , crooked , lying scumbag without any likable traits and a personality like a 2X4.
Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck at August 12, 2016 04:38 PM (+P27u)
104
Kevin Williamson writes for at least 2 publications that exist only because of tax exempt contributions from benefactors. Neither National Review nor The New Criterion would exist without the charitable foundations that support them. They are not commercial enterprises - the market has spoken and said no. But government has spoken and said yes. But, yeah, it's those laid off coal minors who are the parasites, right KW?
Posted by: Emmett Milbarge at August 12, 2016 04:38 PM (nFdGS)
105
These comments frankly illustrate the problem. Many of you seem to be saying, "Hell Yeah! But I'm not in favor of making things easier for the working class! Bootstraps, dammit!"
And I have a degree of sympathy, philosophically.
But we're past that. Free stuff for the Native-born, traditionalist, largely rural working class.
Or much MORE free stuff for the people we replace them with, economically and politically.
Pick one. I you pick zero, you never win another election.
And I have a degree of sympathy, philosophically.
But we're past that. Free stuff for the Native-born, traditionalist, largely rural working class.
Or much MORE free stuff for the people we replace them with, economically and politically.
Pick one. I you pick zero, you never win another election.
Posted by: RichieC at August 12, 2016 04:39 PM (838ff)
Posted by: garrett at August 12, 2016 04:39 PM (c1srJ)
107
Nationalism is looked down upon by the globalists.
They don't seem to understand it's an evolutionary derived survival instinct.
The globalists are science deniers, apparently.
They don't seem to understand it's an evolutionary derived survival instinct.
The globalists are science deniers, apparently.
Posted by: Max Power at August 12, 2016 04:39 PM (q177U)
108
91 And anyone who reads Atlas Shrugged and concludes that she had no sympathy for the poor did not actually read the book.
Posted by: WKL
--
I agree. She abhorred the lazy and the leech.
Posted by: Vashta Nerada at August 12, 2016 04:34 PM (7ZVPa)
I don't remember her being too much on private charity either.
Posted by: WKL
--
I agree. She abhorred the lazy and the leech.
Posted by: Vashta Nerada at August 12, 2016 04:34 PM (7ZVPa)
I don't remember her being too much on private charity either.
Posted by: Jollyroger at August 12, 2016 04:39 PM (t06LC)
109
Rumbling thunder out here,
Posted by: Skip at August 12, 2016 04:39 PM (bksJQ)
110
"Lately I've been seeing this hard-edged "Go fuck yourself, Poorz" Randism emanating from many quarters on the right"
Good body of work Ace. However, "Randism" is nothing of the sort, at least not from how I read the book you referenced. I took it, as she literally writes in the pages, as - if you aren't going to pull yourself up and fight for something good or something better, for whatever reason, the go **** yourself.
Nowhere does she even hint at "I have no use for you." She does specifically say that she has no use for you IF you are one of the masses who drone one with no care for your input into society. And on that description I agree. We do have no use for those who suck off the teet and couldn't care less about their work, contribution or efforts.
Good body of work Ace. However, "Randism" is nothing of the sort, at least not from how I read the book you referenced. I took it, as she literally writes in the pages, as - if you aren't going to pull yourself up and fight for something good or something better, for whatever reason, the go **** yourself.
Nowhere does she even hint at "I have no use for you." She does specifically say that she has no use for you IF you are one of the masses who drone one with no care for your input into society. And on that description I agree. We do have no use for those who suck off the teet and couldn't care less about their work, contribution or efforts.
Posted by: Brian_AL at August 12, 2016 04:39 PM (WxaK+)
111
where locals can be abused by refugees and they are counseled to cover up, don't walk at night, etc,.
++++
And put in your earplugs
Put on your eye shades
You know where to put the cork
++++
And put in your earplugs
Put on your eye shades
You know where to put the cork
Posted by: Bigbys Olive Fingers at August 12, 2016 04:39 PM (0o/oP)
112
Took a peek over at hot air.... Man what a bunch of downer headlines they have.... The 2 or so respondents they have there fit nicely into this elite crap.....
Posted by: donna at August 12, 2016 04:40 PM (O2RFr)
113
Our town is run by hyper-progressives. They are touting a massive bond issue, which will require that property taxes be raised to pay for it.
One of their selling points is a program that will 'encourage low income housing'. And yet, and yet... there is not a SINGLE property in the city that will not become LESS affordable because of the tax increase.
The local media fail to point that out.
One of their selling points is a program that will 'encourage low income housing'. And yet, and yet... there is not a SINGLE property in the city that will not become LESS affordable because of the tax increase.
The local media fail to point that out.
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at August 12, 2016 04:40 PM (9mTYi)
114
You know? This just nauseates me. To elitist progressive pricks like Merkel and Obama, in their fucked up minds there is an acceptable level of carnage when bringing in a huge flood of undocumented democrats. When Obama says his lines of shit like more people die slipping in a bathtub then by terror attacks - as some way of minimizing the horrors... I just have no words. It makes my fucking blood boil.
Posted by: ScottyThrust at August 12, 2016 04:40 PM (Z/diL)
115
>>>Girls on trampolines?
Posted by: donna at August 12, 2016 04:37 PM (O2RFr)<<<
Not like ours. Sadly.
But the Canadian gold medalist was pretty hot.
Posted by: donna at August 12, 2016 04:37 PM (O2RFr)<<<
Not like ours. Sadly.
But the Canadian gold medalist was pretty hot.
Posted by: Adam Carolla and Jimmy Kimmel at August 12, 2016 04:40 PM (H9MG5)
116
Kevin Williamson..."
Posted by: Emmett Milbarge at August 12, 2016 04:38 PM (nFdGS)
The sad and embarrassing thing about Williamson is that there was a solid market economics point to be made, but he was so overwhelmed by the emotion of his disdain for small-town America that he failed to make it, and instead managed to piss off most of his conservative, free-market readers.
Kevin Williamson..."
Posted by: Emmett Milbarge at August 12, 2016 04:38 PM (nFdGS)
The sad and embarrassing thing about Williamson is that there was a solid market economics point to be made, but he was so overwhelmed by the emotion of his disdain for small-town America that he failed to make it, and instead managed to piss off most of his conservative, free-market readers.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at August 12, 2016 04:41 PM (Zu3d9)
117
There are so many elements the open borders state of the State that aren't allowed to be questioned, let alone discussed.
One that I have yet to see addressed is the open borders advocate's assumption that political cultures are unbreakable.
They assume that there is no level of illegal immigration that will permanently harm a political culture.
It seems to me that even with the most cursory readings of history there are levels that will permanently change a political culture.
In our post-modern age that denigrates American and Western ideals in general, coupled with instantaneous communication, the idea that assimilation is still as operative as it was 50 years ago strikes me as nothing short of willful idiocy.
The average illegal immigrant whose only interest in the US is economic has little to no incentive to study and reinforce our political culture. This can only lead to a fragile state of affairs.
And if this experiment falls apart, many of our Betters will be able to avoid the fallout, but not all.
Their obsession is myopic, arrogant, and illiberal.
One that I have yet to see addressed is the open borders advocate's assumption that political cultures are unbreakable.
They assume that there is no level of illegal immigration that will permanently harm a political culture.
It seems to me that even with the most cursory readings of history there are levels that will permanently change a political culture.
In our post-modern age that denigrates American and Western ideals in general, coupled with instantaneous communication, the idea that assimilation is still as operative as it was 50 years ago strikes me as nothing short of willful idiocy.
The average illegal immigrant whose only interest in the US is economic has little to no incentive to study and reinforce our political culture. This can only lead to a fragile state of affairs.
And if this experiment falls apart, many of our Betters will be able to avoid the fallout, but not all.
Their obsession is myopic, arrogant, and illiberal.
Posted by: weft cut-loop at August 12, 2016 04:41 PM (9sySV)
Posted by: A Smear of Ash at August 12, 2016 04:41 PM (9mTYi)
119
>>"I have no use for you."
Always hated this sentiment.
It implies having a use for someone is a good thing.
It isn't. People are not tools.
Always hated this sentiment.
It implies having a use for someone is a good thing.
It isn't. People are not tools.
Posted by: garrett at August 12, 2016 04:41 PM (c1srJ)
120
Posted by: Pastafarian at August 12, 2016 04:32 PM (sgHEm)
Excellent. When I, a manufacturer, ran my business I didn't say, 'Damnit, I really want to run my effluent into this pristine little trout stream to save .1% on bottom line. Of course there were laws to punish me If I did. Punitive.
I only wanted to compete on a level playing field. Our 'betters' in government don't give a flying fvck what playing field American factories and workers have to compete upon. Just throw another 10, 000 pages of regulation upon them every year.
They will never, ever 'get it'.
Excellent. When I, a manufacturer, ran my business I didn't say, 'Damnit, I really want to run my effluent into this pristine little trout stream to save .1% on bottom line. Of course there were laws to punish me If I did. Punitive.
I only wanted to compete on a level playing field. Our 'betters' in government don't give a flying fvck what playing field American factories and workers have to compete upon. Just throw another 10, 000 pages of regulation upon them every year.
They will never, ever 'get it'.
Posted by: free range 'sorta' conservative but not 'true' conservative at August 12, 2016 04:42 PM (ZnIt3)
121
The sad and embarrassing thing about Williamson is that there was a solid market economics point to be made, but he was so overwhelmed by the emotion of his disdain for small-town America that he failed to make it
I think the elites are so horrified by Trump they are a bit discombobulated and coming undone. Its like watching Judge Smails lose the golf tournament.
I think the elites are so horrified by Trump they are a bit discombobulated and coming undone. Its like watching Judge Smails lose the golf tournament.
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at August 12, 2016 04:42 PM (39g3+)
122
Rand had the same problem as the Left. It's just that her vision of Utopia was opposite of theirs. Neither is based in reality since it would require a total rewiring of human nature.
Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck at August 12, 2016 04:43 PM (+P27u)
123
>>>Lately I've been seeing this hard-edged "Go fuck yourself, Poorz" Randism emanating from many quarters on the right
Yeah like me, LOL.
Hey, it's understandable that we are a little butt hurt at this point. Compassion comes hardest when you've been kicked in the teeth.
Yeah like me, LOL.
Hey, it's understandable that we are a little butt hurt at this point. Compassion comes hardest when you've been kicked in the teeth.
Posted by: Max Power at August 12, 2016 04:43 PM (q177U)
Posted by: wth at August 12, 2016 04:43 PM (HgMAr)
Posted by: Yo! at August 12, 2016 04:43 PM (uPt3V)
Posted by: Bernie at August 12, 2016 04:43 PM (9mTYi)
127
Objectivism is one of the more reasonable worldviews for those that don't believe in God.
Posted by: Wonk with Pigtails at August 12, 2016 04:43 PM (0sLvz)
128
"When Obama says his lines of shit like more people die slipping in a bathtub then by terror attacks..."
*raises hand*
Mr. Obama, is that Secret Service detail there to protect you from bathtubs or something else?
*raises hand*
Mr. Obama, is that Secret Service detail there to protect you from bathtubs or something else?
Posted by: *Mikey NTH - Know Your Place! The Outrage Outlet has Official DNC Oppression Hierarchy Cards! at August 12, 2016 04:43 PM (hLRSq)
129
'Protecting your own' has the virtue of making people safer. 'Bleeding for everybody' simply spreads it around until it's universally unsolvable.
America can make itself safer. But if it tries to make everybody safer, particularly in the face of no one else trying to, like the entire Muslim world which says 'fuck it all' to its own, no one gets to be any better off.
And when you improve things for your tribe, other tribes have a reason to improve their own.
And if they don't, at least you're limiting the spread of their indolence.
America can make itself safer. But if it tries to make everybody safer, particularly in the face of no one else trying to, like the entire Muslim world which says 'fuck it all' to its own, no one gets to be any better off.
And when you improve things for your tribe, other tribes have a reason to improve their own.
And if they don't, at least you're limiting the spread of their indolence.
Posted by: Mr. Peebles at August 12, 2016 04:43 PM (vP09u)
130
People are not tools.
Posted by: garrett at August 12, 2016 04:41 PM (c1srJ)
You've never met my neighbor.
Posted by: garrett at August 12, 2016 04:41 PM (c1srJ)
You've never met my neighbor.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at August 12, 2016 04:43 PM (Zu3d9)
131
75 Well said, though I think you may be oversimplifying Rand's outlook; she
didn't intend for a society devoid of fellow feeling and community, she
merely offered an (extreme) objection to the idea that she OWED
something to someone else.
Well said. Coerced charity is not charity. Taking my money by force of gubmint and giving it to others is not charity. That is much closer to Rand's philosophy.
didn't intend for a society devoid of fellow feeling and community, she
merely offered an (extreme) objection to the idea that she OWED
something to someone else.
Well said. Coerced charity is not charity. Taking my money by force of gubmint and giving it to others is not charity. That is much closer to Rand's philosophy.
Posted by: GnuBreed at August 12, 2016 04:43 PM (gyKtp)
132
>>>Rumbling thunder out here,
Posted by: Skip at August 12, 2016 04:39 PM (bksJQ)<<<
You better run,
You better take cover.
Posted by: Skip at August 12, 2016 04:39 PM (bksJQ)<<<
You better run,
You better take cover.
Posted by: Men At Work at August 12, 2016 04:44 PM (H9MG5)
133
"Lately I've been seeing this hard-edged "Go fuck yourself, Poorz" Randism emanating from many quarters on the right -- from people who previously had declared themselves to be "patriotic."
And I keep saying that most of these people (like the NRO) are the low level flunkies who subconsciously know that they are next on the chopping block. And definitely if Trump wins.
So to them it's a fight to the death. Either the American middle class takes it in the ass or they do.
They don't care about some ideological position it's about saving their financial bacon. Kissing up to the benefactors.
The political globalists - Belguim cabal, UN and billionaires like Soros, Winfrey, Gates, Saudis, Slim, Mark Zuckerberg, Bezos, etc. won't be affected.
And I keep saying that most of these people (like the NRO) are the low level flunkies who subconsciously know that they are next on the chopping block. And definitely if Trump wins.
So to them it's a fight to the death. Either the American middle class takes it in the ass or they do.
They don't care about some ideological position it's about saving their financial bacon. Kissing up to the benefactors.
The political globalists - Belguim cabal, UN and billionaires like Soros, Winfrey, Gates, Saudis, Slim, Mark Zuckerberg, Bezos, etc. won't be affected.
Posted by: #NeverHillary at August 12, 2016 04:44 PM (/So8Q)
134
I am not surprised that Whittaker Chambers, a communist spy for Russia, would say something like that about Atlas Shrugged. It would be impossible for him to agree with anything in her book. He is the very epitome of the looters that Rand was raging against.
And Ayn Rand was not the first one to state this obvious truth as well. Bastiat said essentially the same thing.
And Ayn Rand was not the first one to state this obvious truth as well. Bastiat said essentially the same thing.
Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at August 12, 2016 04:44 PM (mpXpK)
135
Peggy Noonan. Sunshine patriot RINO.
Posted by: Dave with a Brain at August 12, 2016 04:45 PM (0a1T6)
136
If you're basically telling American workers you plan to simply replace them with cheaper imports and they can move to Mexico where prices are cheaper if they don't like it- -
um, how exactly do you get them to vote for you?
They keep voting for McCain, McConnell, Ryan, Lady Lindsey, Rubio, and all the other open borders shits in the GOP. So, you tell me, Ace.
um, how exactly do you get them to vote for you?
They keep voting for McCain, McConnell, Ryan, Lady Lindsey, Rubio, and all the other open borders shits in the GOP. So, you tell me, Ace.
Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at August 12, 2016 04:45 PM (8ZskC)
137
I have not been following Bret Stephens, so I don't know what he has been saying. Are we talking about immigration issues, free trade issues, regulatory issues, what?
Because I think many of us agree on just about everything except some aspect of immigration and free trade.
I do not want to be governed by corporate elite and I don't think corporations should be taxed. I'm for better immigration policies, but probably not to the same restrictive extent that many on here are. I am in favor of free trade because I think it benefits the most people - not just the people at the top.
Maybe I'll just have to read Noonan's article.
Because I think many of us agree on just about everything except some aspect of immigration and free trade.
I do not want to be governed by corporate elite and I don't think corporations should be taxed. I'm for better immigration policies, but probably not to the same restrictive extent that many on here are. I am in favor of free trade because I think it benefits the most people - not just the people at the top.
Maybe I'll just have to read Noonan's article.
Posted by: SH at August 12, 2016 04:45 PM (gmeXX)
138
Taking my money by force of gubmint and giving it to others is not charity. That is much closer to Rand's philosophy.
It is, but then the rest of her philosophy was "stand on your own, make your own way, you're flawed and messed up if you do not" without regard to illness, ability, or age. Someone without legs or crippling disease have no room in Rand's universe. Someone over 80 has no room in Rand's universe. There's a reason she never had kids.
It is, but then the rest of her philosophy was "stand on your own, make your own way, you're flawed and messed up if you do not" without regard to illness, ability, or age. Someone without legs or crippling disease have no room in Rand's universe. Someone over 80 has no room in Rand's universe. There's a reason she never had kids.
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at August 12, 2016 04:45 PM (39g3+)
139
They don't care about some ideological position it's about saving their financial bacon. Kissing up to the benefactors.
------
First Rule of Socialism.
EVERYBODY is a Capitalist when it comes to their own money.
------
First Rule of Socialism.
EVERYBODY is a Capitalist when it comes to their own money.
Posted by: fixerupper at August 12, 2016 04:46 PM (8XRCm)
140
What this country needs is sensible, reasonable leadership from people who have demonstrated their ability to lead people in common cause. Like Larry Page and Sergey Brin, Mark Zuckerberg, John McAfee. Visioniaries like Elon Musk and other titians of tech in Silicon Valley.
Successful business men like Mark Cuban who know how to inspire hard working men and women to excel in the traditions of William Redinton Hewlett and David Packard who started a business in their garage and worked their way up from nothing.
People like Jeffery Immelt who know how to work with Presidents and foreign leaders and get things done.
What this country needs is sensible, reasonable leadership from people who have demonstrated their ability to lead people in common cause. Like Larry Page and Sergey Brin, Mark Zuckerberg, John McAfee. Visioniaries like Elon Musk and other titians of tech in Silicon Valley.
Successful business men like Mark Cuban who know how to inspire hard working men and women to excel in the traditions of William Redinton Hewlett and David Packard who started a business in their garage and worked their way up from nothing.
People like Jeffery Immelt who know how to work with Presidents and foreign leaders and get things done.
Posted by: J.O. Muslester at August 12, 2016 04:46 PM (2AFGU)
141
Objectivism is one of the more reasonable worldviews for those that don't believe in God.
Posted by: Wonk with Pigtails
I've been trying to codify my personal philosophy and...
Two words:
Christian. Objectivism.
Posted by: Wonk with Pigtails
I've been trying to codify my personal philosophy and...
Two words:
Christian. Objectivism.
Posted by: Brother Cavil, down with Eph 6:12-13 at August 12, 2016 04:46 PM (9krrF)
142
When the solar flare hits us, most all of the elites will die at home from thirst and starvation waiting for someone to come help. Nobody will come however, they will be taking care of their own.
Posted by: Tinfoilbaby at August 12, 2016 04:47 PM (6Ll1u)
143
Alas the Noonan article is behind a fire wall and I'm too lazy to take steps to get around it.
Posted by: SH at August 12, 2016 04:47 PM (gmeXX)
Posted by: RichieC at August 12, 2016 04:47 PM (838ff)
145
13 The elites need unlimited immigration, because eventually the rubes in the country will figure out all those government handouts and bailouts are coming out of their pockets and stop it...unless there is a new electorate to replace them first...
Posted by: 18-1 at August 12, 2016 04:17 PM (X7E8f)
_______________
The Ponzi scheme that is our federal budget will eventually collapse. The rest of the world is not going to go along with the scam forever; eventually they will stop accepting dollars and require some type of currency with actual value behind it. That's when the real fun starts . . . .
Posted by: 18-1 at August 12, 2016 04:17 PM (X7E8f)
_______________
The Ponzi scheme that is our federal budget will eventually collapse. The rest of the world is not going to go along with the scam forever; eventually they will stop accepting dollars and require some type of currency with actual value behind it. That's when the real fun starts . . . .
Posted by: TrivialPursuer at August 12, 2016 04:47 PM (NnYnv)
146
Visioniaries like Elon Musk and other titians of tech in Silicon Valley.
Elon Musk is not a visionary, he's a very successful cronyist leech. If it were not for subsidies and government cash he'd still be that guy in your neighborhood with the huge antenna in the back yard and all the solar panels on his roof.
Elon Musk is not a visionary, he's a very successful cronyist leech. If it were not for subsidies and government cash he'd still be that guy in your neighborhood with the huge antenna in the back yard and all the solar panels on his roof.
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at August 12, 2016 04:48 PM (39g3+)
147
It isn't. People are not tools.
Posted by: garrett at August 12, 2016 04:41 PM (c1srJ)
I could name some that are definitely tools.
Posted by: garrett at August 12, 2016 04:41 PM (c1srJ)
I could name some that are definitely tools.
Posted by: buzzion at August 12, 2016 04:48 PM (z/Ubi)
148
Very well said Ace.
Our new aristocrats have forgotten what befell their contemporaries in the 18th and 19th centuries in Europa.
Tumbrils anyone?.....
Our new aristocrats have forgotten what befell their contemporaries in the 18th and 19th centuries in Europa.
Tumbrils anyone?.....
Posted by: Hairyback Guy at August 12, 2016 04:48 PM (ej1L0)
149
The thing that is absolutely mind blowing these days is that there is no path for the average citizen to secure his family.
My little town passed an ordinance that no future multi family projects or temporary homesteads would be approved.
Our population is under 2000, but growing. We want to make sure that growth is healthy and not a tax drain.
But, nope. The fed is saying such ordinances are *discriminatory*. How dare you try to make your community more prosperous!
You shall take in the section 8 apartments, by God!
And so they decree and so it is done.
My little town passed an ordinance that no future multi family projects or temporary homesteads would be approved.
Our population is under 2000, but growing. We want to make sure that growth is healthy and not a tax drain.
But, nope. The fed is saying such ordinances are *discriminatory*. How dare you try to make your community more prosperous!
You shall take in the section 8 apartments, by God!
And so they decree and so it is done.
Posted by: Lauren at August 12, 2016 04:48 PM (hW3u1)
150
Christian. Objectivism.
Posted by: Brother Cavil, down with Eph 6:12-13 at August 12, 2016 04:46 PM (9krrF)
------
The two will never reconcile.
One deals with your existence after you die.
The other deals with your existence while youre alive.
The two... however... cannot be mutually exclusive.
Posted by: Brother Cavil, down with Eph 6:12-13 at August 12, 2016 04:46 PM (9krrF)
------
The two will never reconcile.
One deals with your existence after you die.
The other deals with your existence while youre alive.
The two... however... cannot be mutually exclusive.
Posted by: fixerupper at August 12, 2016 04:49 PM (8XRCm)
151
>>I could name some that are definitely tools.
Well, Ace is a tool of the Patriarchy.
But Ewok aren't really people people.
Well, Ace is a tool of the Patriarchy.
But Ewok aren't really people people.
Posted by: garrett at August 12, 2016 04:49 PM (c1srJ)
152
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at August 12, 2016 04:48 PM (39g3+)
You don't have to like Musk but he is a visionary .
You don't have to like Musk but he is a visionary .
Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck at August 12, 2016 04:49 PM (+P27u)
153
The Ponzi scheme that is our federal budget will
eventually collapse. The rest of the world is not going to go along
with the scam forever; eventually they will stop accepting dollars and
require some type of currency with actual value behind it. That's when
the real fun starts . . . .
Posted by: TrivialPursuer at August 12, 2016 04:47 PM (NnYnv)
That is why CHina to them is so critical, they would not be able to sustain the money printing is it was not for CHina
eventually collapse. The rest of the world is not going to go along
with the scam forever; eventually they will stop accepting dollars and
require some type of currency with actual value behind it. That's when
the real fun starts . . . .
Posted by: TrivialPursuer at August 12, 2016 04:47 PM (NnYnv)
That is why CHina to them is so critical, they would not be able to sustain the money printing is it was not for CHina
Posted by: runner at August 12, 2016 04:49 PM (c6/9Q)
154
16 Yeah, this is a basic problem I have with Rand and Objectivism. Its
great at diagnosing problems and embracing liberty. But its an ideology
that only really works for the healthy, wealthy, and young.
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at August 12, 2016 04:18 PM (39g3+)
You don't understand the book either as that statement shows.
great at diagnosing problems and embracing liberty. But its an ideology
that only really works for the healthy, wealthy, and young.
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at August 12, 2016 04:18 PM (39g3+)
You don't understand the book either as that statement shows.
Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at August 12, 2016 04:49 PM (mpXpK)
155
Mr. Obama, is that Secret Service detail there to protect you from bathtubs or something else?
Posted by: *Mikey NTH
------------
Which puts me in mind of these lines from 'Arthur':
Arthur: Hobson?
Hobson: Yes.
Arthur: Do you know what I'm going to do?
Hobson: No, I don't.
Arthur: I'm going to take a bath.
Hobson: I'll alert the media.
Arthur: [rises] Do you want to run my bath for me?
Hobson: That's what I live for.
[Arthur exits]
Hobson: Perhaps you would like me to come in there and wash your dick for you, you little shit.
Posted by: *Mikey NTH
------------
Which puts me in mind of these lines from 'Arthur':
Arthur: Hobson?
Hobson: Yes.
Arthur: Do you know what I'm going to do?
Hobson: No, I don't.
Arthur: I'm going to take a bath.
Hobson: I'll alert the media.
Arthur: [rises] Do you want to run my bath for me?
Hobson: That's what I live for.
[Arthur exits]
Hobson: Perhaps you would like me to come in there and wash your dick for you, you little shit.
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at August 12, 2016 04:49 PM (9mTYi)
156
@140...well done.
Ayn Rand...definitely not on my list of 100 girls I'd like to pork. Good reading for the formative years. And it inspired Rush when Rush was good.
Ayn Rand...definitely not on my list of 100 girls I'd like to pork. Good reading for the formative years. And it inspired Rush when Rush was good.
Posted by: Big Fat Meanie at August 12, 2016 04:49 PM (hqZPQ)
157
"The thing that is absolutely mind blowing these days is that there is no path for the average citizen to secure his family.
My little town passed an ordinance that no future multi family projects or temporary homesteads would be approved.
Our population is under 2000, but growing. We want to make sure that growth is healthy and not a tax drain.
But, nope. The fed is saying such ordinances are *discriminatory*. How dare you try to make your community more prosperous!
You shall take in the section 8 apartments, by God!
And so they decree and so it is done."
So the Feds can do something right.
My little town passed an ordinance that no future multi family projects or temporary homesteads would be approved.
Our population is under 2000, but growing. We want to make sure that growth is healthy and not a tax drain.
But, nope. The fed is saying such ordinances are *discriminatory*. How dare you try to make your community more prosperous!
You shall take in the section 8 apartments, by God!
And so they decree and so it is done."
So the Feds can do something right.
Posted by: RichieC at August 12, 2016 04:49 PM (838ff)
158
LOL
The Old Girl is David Brooks with tits ... she was down with Obongo when he appeared, and when he ran for re-election .... another sophist trying to cover her tracks ex-post-stupidass-facto
Sorry Peg, stay with yer peeps
The Old Girl is David Brooks with tits ... she was down with Obongo when he appeared, and when he ran for re-election .... another sophist trying to cover her tracks ex-post-stupidass-facto
Sorry Peg, stay with yer peeps
Posted by: Sharp Creased Slax at August 12, 2016 04:50 PM (TRUx+)
159
The Ponzi scheme that is our federal budget will eventually collapse. The rest of the world is not going to go along with the scam forever
--
The Ponzi scheme is already failing; see Japan. The scheme cannot run with falling populations, and outside of Africa, the entire world is at or near population peak. One reason for abetting illegal immigration is to try and forestall the collapse that comes from having a welfare state in a nation with a declining population.
--
The Ponzi scheme is already failing; see Japan. The scheme cannot run with falling populations, and outside of Africa, the entire world is at or near population peak. One reason for abetting illegal immigration is to try and forestall the collapse that comes from having a welfare state in a nation with a declining population.
Posted by: Vashta Nerada at August 12, 2016 04:50 PM (7ZVPa)
160
"...eventually they will stop accepting dollars and require some type of currency with actual value behind it."
"Hello, loan department. Yes, we can cover that amount." - National Bank of Zimbabwe
"Hello, loan department. Yes, we can cover that amount." - National Bank of Zimbabwe
Posted by: *Mikey NTH - Know Your Place! The Outrage Outlet has Official DNC Oppression Hierarchy Cards! at August 12, 2016 04:50 PM (hLRSq)
161
We even had a name for people who claimed that no American should view another American as having any special pull on his sympathy or loyalty -- transnational progressives.
They aren't really "transnational" as they detest the very idea of the nation-state. They are anti-nation, is what they are.
They aren't really "transnational" as they detest the very idea of the nation-state. They are anti-nation, is what they are.
Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at August 12, 2016 04:50 PM (zc3Db)
162
But in the gilded age, the rich folk used Their Own Money to build libraries, museums, and opera houses.
Now, it's the taxpayers.
Now, it's the taxpayers.
Posted by: Gouverneur Morris at August 12, 2016 04:50 PM (dQJCS)
163
Noonan has been surprisingly lucent lately
Posted by: runner at August 12, 2016 04:50 PM (c6/9Q)
164
The gas chamber line is slander from back when NR could still purge people. They've been stabbing allies in the back for over fifty years in pursuit of respectability.
Posted by: Jake (not a guest) at August 12, 2016 04:50 PM (1BdMd)
165
Yes, "free trade" is traditional conservative dogma. Too bad what the Globalizationists are practicing is NOT free trade, but a bastardized, fascist version thereof.
-------------
I think that is a somewhat fair critique. I can say I support free trade because I do and think it makes the country richer, but what people see are free trade deals that come with a lot of paper - which means some are probably benefiting more than others. That doesn't mean free trade is bad though. I've long said I would support a completely open free trade and let the other countries worry about themselves.
-------------
I think that is a somewhat fair critique. I can say I support free trade because I do and think it makes the country richer, but what people see are free trade deals that come with a lot of paper - which means some are probably benefiting more than others. That doesn't mean free trade is bad though. I've long said I would support a completely open free trade and let the other countries worry about themselves.
Posted by: SH at August 12, 2016 04:51 PM (gmeXX)
166
As a young man, in college, I became enamored with Rand and her political philosophy. Some of it still persists -- there's much I still hold, but a lot I don't. The objectivists have a sort of cult-like character about the whole thing.
Posted by: publius (not Breitbart publius) at August 12, 2016 04:51 PM (DW+jj)
167
Ayn Rand...definitely not on my list of 100 girls I'd like to pork. Good reading for the formative years. And it inspired Rush when Rush was good.
Geddy Lee is still good. Correction: He's still AWESOME.
Geddy Lee is still good. Correction: He's still AWESOME.
Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at August 12, 2016 04:51 PM (8ZskC)
168
. One reason for abetting illegal immigration is to try and forestall
the collapse that comes from having a welfare state in a nation with a
declining population.
***
Ever read Children of Men? The book is prophetic in many ways.
the collapse that comes from having a welfare state in a nation with a
declining population.
***
Ever read Children of Men? The book is prophetic in many ways.
Posted by: 18-1 at August 12, 2016 04:51 PM (X7E8f)
Posted by: @votermom at August 12, 2016 04:51 PM (7lVbc)
170
In that she is far more perceptive than the rest of the punditocracy who fallback on cries of 'racism' and 'xenophobia' and every other insult rather than actually risk their viewpoints a little
+++++
I don't actually need anyone to agree with me. I just want to budge them away from where they are now. Hence the arguments with chem Jeff that are never rancorous but never ending. And it's because I see a train coming but feel like I'm a guy in a wheelchair with cerebral palsy. GET OFF I yell but it's not intelligible.
In that she is far more perceptive than the rest of the punditocracy who fallback on cries of 'racism' and 'xenophobia' and every other insult rather than actually risk their viewpoints a little
+++++
I don't actually need anyone to agree with me. I just want to budge them away from where they are now. Hence the arguments with chem Jeff that are never rancorous but never ending. And it's because I see a train coming but feel like I'm a guy in a wheelchair with cerebral palsy. GET OFF I yell but it's not intelligible.
Posted by: Bigbys Olive Fingers at August 12, 2016 04:51 PM (0o/oP)
171
"
So the Feds can do something right."
If you consider devaluing the local school system "right".
They're not going to sign themselves up for this shit. They just push it on the rest of us.
So the Feds can do something right."
If you consider devaluing the local school system "right".
They're not going to sign themselves up for this shit. They just push it on the rest of us.
Posted by: Lauren at August 12, 2016 04:52 PM (hW3u1)
172
One deals with your existence after you die.
The other deals with your existence while youre alive.
The two... however... cannot be mutually exclusive.
Given what I've seen of the legacy of Protestantism, you'd be amazed what reconciles. And I think--if you see Christianity as a necessary mediating force on Objectivism, and Objectivism as a welcome stiffening agent for modern Christianity--there's a lot more common ground than you'd think.
The other deals with your existence while youre alive.
The two... however... cannot be mutually exclusive.
Given what I've seen of the legacy of Protestantism, you'd be amazed what reconciles. And I think--if you see Christianity as a necessary mediating force on Objectivism, and Objectivism as a welcome stiffening agent for modern Christianity--there's a lot more common ground than you'd think.
Posted by: Brother Cavil, down with Eph 6:12-13 at August 12, 2016 04:52 PM (9krrF)
173
You don't have to like Musk but he is a visionary .
Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck
------------
I might respect the guy if he wasn't using money confiscated from me finance his schemes.
Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck
------------
I might respect the guy if he wasn't using money confiscated from me finance his schemes.
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at August 12, 2016 04:52 PM (9mTYi)
174
148 Very well said Ace.
Our new aristocrats have forgotten what befell their contemporaries in the 18th and 19th centuries in Europa.
Tumbrils anyone?.....
I'm currently reading A distant mirror by Tuchman. It's a look at the 14th century europe. You can look at some continuous incredible violence during the peasants revolt. mainly cuz the peons got tired of pay taxes for zero protection from not only marauding free companies but their own nobles who wouldn't ptotect them, borders or make any civic improvement other than those on castles of the aristo's.
History DOES repeat....
Our new aristocrats have forgotten what befell their contemporaries in the 18th and 19th centuries in Europa.
Tumbrils anyone?.....
I'm currently reading A distant mirror by Tuchman. It's a look at the 14th century europe. You can look at some continuous incredible violence during the peasants revolt. mainly cuz the peons got tired of pay taxes for zero protection from not only marauding free companies but their own nobles who wouldn't ptotect them, borders or make any civic improvement other than those on castles of the aristo's.
History DOES repeat....
Posted by: havildar-major at August 12, 2016 04:52 PM (jpW6t)
175
Elon Musk is not a visionary, he's a very successful cronyist leech. If it were not for subsidies and government cash he'd still be that guy in your neighborhood with the huge antenna in the back yard and all the solar panels on his roof.
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at August 12, 2016 04:48 PM (39g3+)
This. The guy is a giant welfare queen as far as electric cars go.
At least he's blowing his profits on space rockets.
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at August 12, 2016 04:48 PM (39g3+)
This. The guy is a giant welfare queen as far as electric cars go.
At least he's blowing his profits on space rockets.
Posted by: @votermom at August 12, 2016 04:53 PM (7lVbc)
Posted by: Jay Guevara at August 12, 2016 04:53 PM (SRKgf)
177
i had a peggy noonan once. a real quicky. smelled bad though.
Posted by: chavez the hugo at August 12, 2016 04:53 PM (KP5rU)
178
Good article as always, Ace.
Just want to point out one thing though. There is a difference between recognizing the privileges of citizenship, and recognizing the basic humanity of every person, citizen or not. Our foundational document says "All men are created equal", it is not limited to only those individuals who hold a particular citizenship. So while I would agree with you that, all else equal, the state should favor the citizen over the non-citizen simply by virtue of having a closer social and cultural connection to the citizen, the implied converse of the statement - that if you aren't a citizen, you should be treated like dirt - does not necessarily follow.
Just want to point out one thing though. There is a difference between recognizing the privileges of citizenship, and recognizing the basic humanity of every person, citizen or not. Our foundational document says "All men are created equal", it is not limited to only those individuals who hold a particular citizenship. So while I would agree with you that, all else equal, the state should favor the citizen over the non-citizen simply by virtue of having a closer social and cultural connection to the citizen, the implied converse of the statement - that if you aren't a citizen, you should be treated like dirt - does not necessarily follow.
Posted by: chemjeff at August 12, 2016 04:53 PM (uAvJJ)
179
>>>Elon Musk is not a visionary, he's a very successful cronyist leech.
Well it's not binary, to use the modern parlance.
Well it's not binary, to use the modern parlance.
Posted by: Max Power at August 12, 2016 04:53 PM (q177U)
Posted by: wth at August 12, 2016 04:53 PM (HgMAr)
181
After 7.75 years of Obama, and the pummeling of my American ideals by the soi-disant elite and MAIM (Mainstream Agit-Prop and Indoctrination Media), I have a dim understanding of the French san culottes.
Every Tax Framer (administrators of the Ferme generale), including one of the greatest Frenchmen ever, Antoine Lavoisier, was killed.
I do not condone that violence. However, I aver we are on a course to see it again if we do not make a change in National policies.
Every Tax Framer (administrators of the Ferme generale), including one of the greatest Frenchmen ever, Antoine Lavoisier, was killed.
I do not condone that violence. However, I aver we are on a course to see it again if we do not make a change in National policies.
Posted by: NaCly Dog at August 12, 2016 04:53 PM (hyuyC)
182
geez : Peggy Noonan's been surprisingly lucid lately
Posted by: runner at August 12, 2016 04:53 PM (c6/9Q)
183
Ayn Rand...definitely not on my list of 100 girls I'd like to pork.
--------------
Well, she was easy... really easy.
--------------
Well, she was easy... really easy.
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at August 12, 2016 04:54 PM (9mTYi)
184
You don't have to like Musk but he is a visionary .
He sure sees ways into other people's wallets.
You don't have to like Musk but he is a visionary .
He sure sees ways into other people's wallets.
Posted by: Mr. Peebles at August 12, 2016 04:54 PM (vP09u)
185
"So the Feds can do something right."
If you consider devaluing the local school system "right".
They're not going to sign themselves up for this shit. They just push it on the rest of us."
So you want to use the power of Government to prevent me from using my property, and prevent other people from moving to your town? You want to use the coercive power of Government, literally armed force, to secure your own economic best interests?
Is your name Hillary?
If you consider devaluing the local school system "right".
They're not going to sign themselves up for this shit. They just push it on the rest of us."
So you want to use the power of Government to prevent me from using my property, and prevent other people from moving to your town? You want to use the coercive power of Government, literally armed force, to secure your own economic best interests?
Is your name Hillary?
Posted by: RichieC at August 12, 2016 04:54 PM (838ff)
186
"There are, in this telling, absolutely no privileges for membership in the Club American."
Except for that free education. And a chance to better yourself.
To be honest, I think a big issue here that Ace is not addressing is that traditionally, the Democrats went to bat for the poor white working class while demonizing corporate America.
So, it would tend to be the right standing up for business and the left for working class joes.
But thanks to cultural marxist identity politics, the Dems drove those white working class people out of the party.
The GOP corporate types are now like "what do I do with these people?"
Except for that free education. And a chance to better yourself.
To be honest, I think a big issue here that Ace is not addressing is that traditionally, the Democrats went to bat for the poor white working class while demonizing corporate America.
So, it would tend to be the right standing up for business and the left for working class joes.
But thanks to cultural marxist identity politics, the Dems drove those white working class people out of the party.
The GOP corporate types are now like "what do I do with these people?"
Posted by: Sexypig at August 12, 2016 04:54 PM (UBBWX)
187
"Take it off! Take it off!" - Paris mob to Marie Antoinette
Posted by: *Mikey NTH - Know Your Place! The Outrage Outlet has Official DNC Oppression Hierarchy Cards! at August 12, 2016 04:54 PM (hLRSq)
188
You can look at some continuous incredible violence during the peasants revolt. mainly cuz the peons got tired of pay taxes for zero protection from not only marauding free companies but their own nobles who wouldn't ptotect them,
You can't make a wonderful progressive omelet without some fresh chevauchees.
You can't make a wonderful progressive omelet without some fresh chevauchees.
Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at August 12, 2016 04:54 PM (8ZskC)
189
The transnationalism is what makes lefties pretending to care about the olympics so annoying. USA! USA! Yeah, ok, whatever jackass.
Posted by: Lauren at August 12, 2016 04:55 PM (hW3u1)
190
Actually I disagree here on the transnational part to a degree.
Suppose Hillary wins, the Dems get congress and the SC.
How much money leaves America for other countries, if some of it doesn't end up in Hillary and friends' pockets?
The left sees nothing special about America, except there is a lot of money to be looted. But they believe they have the right to loot it....
Actually I disagree here on the transnational part to a degree.
Suppose Hillary wins, the Dems get congress and the SC.
How much money leaves America for other countries, if some of it doesn't end up in Hillary and friends' pockets?
The left sees nothing special about America, except there is a lot of money to be looted. But they believe they have the right to loot it....
Posted by: 18-1 at August 12, 2016 04:56 PM (X7E8f)
191
30 It's about the Borg, which is BigGov, MSM and Academia, which is melding. BigBiz is increasingly part of this, often depending on industry, and is now allying with the Cultural Left.
The Borg wants to get bigger, and borders get in the way.
BigBiz is often transnational in scope, and wants cheaper costs.
Posted by: Ignoramus at August 12, 2016 04:20 PM (r1fLd)
I think they've largely aligned with the cultural left for two reasons: (1) the people at the top of these companies tend to run in circles where this is the prevailing worldview, and (2) the cultural left is full of busybody assholes that love to tell people what they can and can't do, and this can be harnessed to help them lobby to regulate their competitors out of business.
The Borg wants to get bigger, and borders get in the way.
BigBiz is often transnational in scope, and wants cheaper costs.
Posted by: Ignoramus at August 12, 2016 04:20 PM (r1fLd)
I think they've largely aligned with the cultural left for two reasons: (1) the people at the top of these companies tend to run in circles where this is the prevailing worldview, and (2) the cultural left is full of busybody assholes that love to tell people what they can and can't do, and this can be harnessed to help them lobby to regulate their competitors out of business.
Posted by: Mandy P. (Not Patinkin), lurking lurker who lurks at August 12, 2016 04:56 PM (KkVB6)
192
>>>They seek to level the playing field -- and in many cases, they hold common cause with US workers: Both US manufacturers and their employees would love to see foreign competitors live up to the same environmental, safety, legal, and tax burdens that US companies must.
and american workers are asking for a level playing field in which the government stops importing millions of new low-skiled workers into a country whose pool of low-skilled workers peaked 40 years ago and has been declining ever since.
and your answer to them is, what?
The American corporation deserves a leg up for a "level playing field," and the American worker can, what exactly?
and american workers are asking for a level playing field in which the government stops importing millions of new low-skiled workers into a country whose pool of low-skilled workers peaked 40 years ago and has been declining ever since.
and your answer to them is, what?
The American corporation deserves a leg up for a "level playing field," and the American worker can, what exactly?
Posted by: ace at August 12, 2016 04:56 PM (dciA+)
Posted by: Lauren at August 12, 2016 04:56 PM (hW3u1)
Posted by: garrett at August 12, 2016 04:57 PM (c1srJ)
195
One reason for abetting illegal immigration is to try and forestall the collapse that comes from having a welfare state in a nation with a declining population.
_______________
The problem is that they're importing tens of millions of uneducated, unskilled, English-illiterate third worlders who are much more likely to be long-term welfare beneficiaries than taxpayers. They're actually accelerating the implosion date.
_______________
The problem is that they're importing tens of millions of uneducated, unskilled, English-illiterate third worlders who are much more likely to be long-term welfare beneficiaries than taxpayers. They're actually accelerating the implosion date.
Posted by: TrivialPursuer at August 12, 2016 04:57 PM (NnYnv)
196
I must say that I am genuinely confused about all this derisive talk about elites. We have our constitution thanks an enlightened elite, that led our country. Does anyone believe that if Average Joe would have had a say in the deliberations, we would have been blessed with a document that conservatives proudly cherish to this day?
Also: Mr Stephens is quite right. Reagan had a very positive, optimistic view of immigration and trade. He also signed an amnesty bill, which i thoiught was one of those "transnational progressive" sins, that make one unacceptable in the rougher quarters of the conservative movement, no?
Also: Mr Stephens is quite right. Reagan had a very positive, optimistic view of immigration and trade. He also signed an amnesty bill, which i thoiught was one of those "transnational progressive" sins, that make one unacceptable in the rougher quarters of the conservative movement, no?
Posted by: Begonia at August 12, 2016 04:57 PM (jb74g)
197
I've said before - Trump operates on a different political axis, not left-right but American-anti-American.
Now, people get indignant with that, thinking I am saying if you don't support Trump, you are anti(or un) American.
But it is just this - an American President should stand up for American interests first. That is why we elect them President of the USA. A President who puts the needs of Syrians over Americans is anti-American, even while saying that the opposite is "not who we are."
People are not as stupid as they seem, but neither do they think. We all have a bunch of feelz.
So the press is studiously focusing on things that put Trump at odds with Americans. Its smart on their part. And that is what Trump needs to change, not his "style" - he needs to make sure that the fights he is fighting are not against Americans, or pro-Americans.
Now, people get indignant with that, thinking I am saying if you don't support Trump, you are anti(or un) American.
But it is just this - an American President should stand up for American interests first. That is why we elect them President of the USA. A President who puts the needs of Syrians over Americans is anti-American, even while saying that the opposite is "not who we are."
People are not as stupid as they seem, but neither do they think. We all have a bunch of feelz.
So the press is studiously focusing on things that put Trump at odds with Americans. Its smart on their part. And that is what Trump needs to change, not his "style" - he needs to make sure that the fights he is fighting are not against Americans, or pro-Americans.
Posted by: blaster at August 12, 2016 04:57 PM (tewYv)
198
Mark Zuckerberg is a leader? Of what... The Zit Brigade?
Posted by: wth at August 12, 2016 04:58 PM (HgMAr)
199
I think that is a somewhat fair critique. I can say I support free trade because I do and think it makes the country richer, but what people see are free trade deals that come with a lot of paper - which means some are probably benefiting more than others. That doesn't mean free trade is bad though. I've long said I would support a completely open free trade and let the other countries worry about themselves.
Posted by: SH at August 12, 2016 04:51 PM (gmeXX)
I think that's why a lot of people who consider themselves conservatives have such a hard time with this. It SOUNDS like an objection to "free trade," which IS a good thing, when it's practiced as such, but our current brand, as run by the Globalizationists, really isn't free trade.
It's something else, but when you object to them, they can hide behind the claim "See? You people are not True Conservatives, because you don't sufficiently love our free trading!"
Insider deals with rogues and dictators that makes a few people rich, is NOT the same thing as free trade.
Posted by: SH at August 12, 2016 04:51 PM (gmeXX)
I think that's why a lot of people who consider themselves conservatives have such a hard time with this. It SOUNDS like an objection to "free trade," which IS a good thing, when it's practiced as such, but our current brand, as run by the Globalizationists, really isn't free trade.
It's something else, but when you object to them, they can hide behind the claim "See? You people are not True Conservatives, because you don't sufficiently love our free trading!"
Insider deals with rogues and dictators that makes a few people rich, is NOT the same thing as free trade.
Posted by: BurtTC at August 12, 2016 04:58 PM (TOk1P)
200
Posted by: chemjeff at August 12, 2016 04:53 PM (uAvJJ)
Yeah, that shine box...go and fetch it.
Posted by: garrett at August 12, 2016 04:57 PM (c1srJ)
------
Seems uncalled for.
Yeah, that shine box...go and fetch it.
Posted by: garrett at August 12, 2016 04:57 PM (c1srJ)
------
Seems uncalled for.
Posted by: SH at August 12, 2016 04:58 PM (gmeXX)
201
>>"I have no use for you."
Always hated this sentiment.
It implies having a use for someone is a good thing.
It isn't. People are not tools.
Posted by: garrett at August 12, 2016 04:41 PM (c1srJ)
Oh some of them are
Always hated this sentiment.
It implies having a use for someone is a good thing.
It isn't. People are not tools.
Posted by: garrett at August 12, 2016 04:41 PM (c1srJ)
Oh some of them are
Posted by: The Jackhole at August 12, 2016 04:58 PM (M+Lyo)
202
Back in the 1960s, I believe, Whittaker Chambers reviewed Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged (or one of her books) in the National Review. Appalled by Rand's absolute insistence that she owed nothing -- not even sympathy -- to her struggling fellow countrymen, Chambers observed that Rand's prescription for the poor seemed to be nothing but "To a gas chamber, go."
Nobody stopped Whittaker Chambers from donating as much as he wanted to help the poor, or anyone else he thought needed it. But he could not claim that Rand owed anything in this. She didn't. Clearly.
And the feral government doesn't owe anyone, either. In fact, the feral government is not supposed to be in the business of mucking around with the poor. That is a state task for each state to deal with and handle as it sees fit.
Now, this is all very different from the fact that the feral government serves all the citizens, and the citizens ONLY. That means that, within the restrictions of the feral government's powers it must serve Americans. It also means that it has no duties to non-Americans. NONE. The Constitution was not written for non-Americans. It was written only for the citizenry, as it states so clearly in the preamble,
"and secure the Blessings of Liberty to Ourselves and our Posterity"
There has to be an advantage to being a citizen on our territory. Nowadays, being a citizen is a disadvantage in America. Sort of like the negative interest rate lunacy in the realm of the nation-state. Yep ... it will not end well ...
Nobody stopped Whittaker Chambers from donating as much as he wanted to help the poor, or anyone else he thought needed it. But he could not claim that Rand owed anything in this. She didn't. Clearly.
And the feral government doesn't owe anyone, either. In fact, the feral government is not supposed to be in the business of mucking around with the poor. That is a state task for each state to deal with and handle as it sees fit.
Now, this is all very different from the fact that the feral government serves all the citizens, and the citizens ONLY. That means that, within the restrictions of the feral government's powers it must serve Americans. It also means that it has no duties to non-Americans. NONE. The Constitution was not written for non-Americans. It was written only for the citizenry, as it states so clearly in the preamble,
"and secure the Blessings of Liberty to Ourselves and our Posterity"
There has to be an advantage to being a citizen on our territory. Nowadays, being a citizen is a disadvantage in America. Sort of like the negative interest rate lunacy in the realm of the nation-state. Yep ... it will not end well ...
Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at August 12, 2016 04:58 PM (zc3Db)
203
I see Daisy or whatever is back. Flower power!
Posted by: Jane D'oh at August 12, 2016 04:58 PM (1ZOkK)
204
Sorry if someone has already mentioned it but IIRC the WSJ's proposal was a CONSTITUIONAL AMMENDMENT stating "There shall be open boarders"
Posted by: Chico Escuela at August 12, 2016 04:58 PM (+ezl9)
205
Nationalism is looked down upon by the globalists.
They don't seem to understand it's an evolutionary derived survival instinct.
The globalists are science deniers, apparently.
Posted by: Max Power
----
Dang, just run the numbers on Europe! You have the white populations that are terrified - TERRIFIED! - to utter the word "nationalism," and then you have the invaders who are quite comfortable with seeing themselves as "a people."
Which way is THAT flood running?
They don't seem to understand it's an evolutionary derived survival instinct.
The globalists are science deniers, apparently.
Posted by: Max Power
----
Dang, just run the numbers on Europe! You have the white populations that are terrified - TERRIFIED! - to utter the word "nationalism," and then you have the invaders who are quite comfortable with seeing themselves as "a people."
Which way is THAT flood running?
Posted by: RKae at August 12, 2016 04:59 PM (CYNno)
206
We have our constitution thanks an enlightened elite, that led our country
***
Because early American elites were frankly better people, in most senses of the word better, then the current elites.
***
Because early American elites were frankly better people, in most senses of the word better, then the current elites.
Posted by: 18-1 at August 12, 2016 04:59 PM (X7E8f)
Posted by: BurtTC at August 12, 2016 04:59 PM (TOk1P)
208
It isn't. People are not tools.
Posted by: garrett at August 12, 2016 04:41 PM (c1srJ)
Oh some of them are
Posted by: The Jackhole at August 12, 2016 04:58 PM (M+Lyo)
And they're starting to show up.
Posted by: garrett at August 12, 2016 04:41 PM (c1srJ)
Oh some of them are
Posted by: The Jackhole at August 12, 2016 04:58 PM (M+Lyo)
And they're starting to show up.
Posted by: buzzion at August 12, 2016 04:59 PM (z/Ubi)
209
>>Seems uncalled for.
Not when you bring that kind of argument to the table and your name is chemjeff, it isn't.
Not when you bring that kind of argument to the table and your name is chemjeff, it isn't.
Posted by: garrett at August 12, 2016 05:00 PM (c1srJ)
210
Begonia must be a sock for Paul Ryan.
Posted by: Jane D'oh at August 12, 2016 05:00 PM (1ZOkK)
211
"There are, in this telling, absolutely no privileges for membership in the Club American."
Except for that free education. And a chance to better yourself.
Posted by: Sexypig at August 12, 2016 04:54 PM (UBBWX)
Not quite. Putting the whole "free" thing aside, public schools are not allowed to reject illegals. Many states offer in-state tuition for illegals that I am not entitled to because I am out-of-state (though in-country).
Except for that free education. And a chance to better yourself.
Posted by: Sexypig at August 12, 2016 04:54 PM (UBBWX)
Not quite. Putting the whole "free" thing aside, public schools are not allowed to reject illegals. Many states offer in-state tuition for illegals that I am not entitled to because I am out-of-state (though in-country).
Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at August 12, 2016 05:00 PM (zc3Db)
212
184
You don't have to like Musk but he is a visionary .
He sure sees ways into other people's wallets.
Posted by: Mr. Peebles at August 12, 2016 04:54 PM (vP09u)
That doesn't mean PayPal, Space X , Tube transportation and the Tesla aren't visionary. Even If you think these things were started with the intent to procur government subsidies , then he is not only visionary, he's an evil genius.
I'm not a personal fan of Musk but I can acknowledge the dude is on a different level.
You don't have to like Musk but he is a visionary .
He sure sees ways into other people's wallets.
Posted by: Mr. Peebles at August 12, 2016 04:54 PM (vP09u)
That doesn't mean PayPal, Space X , Tube transportation and the Tesla aren't visionary. Even If you think these things were started with the intent to procur government subsidies , then he is not only visionary, he's an evil genius.
I'm not a personal fan of Musk but I can acknowledge the dude is on a different level.
Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck at August 12, 2016 05:00 PM (+P27u)
213
There has to be an advantage to being a citizen on our territory. Nowadays, being a citizen is a disadvantage in America. Sort of like the negative interest rate lunacy in the realm of the nation-state. Yep ... it will not end well ...
Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair
--
My take: The bill of rights applies only to American citizens. Of course, I used this argument in voir dire in a federal jury pool, for a trial of an illegal alien, and the judge asked me to go home.
Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair
--
My take: The bill of rights applies only to American citizens. Of course, I used this argument in voir dire in a federal jury pool, for a trial of an illegal alien, and the judge asked me to go home.
Posted by: Vashta Nerada at August 12, 2016 05:01 PM (7ZVPa)
214
I think that's why a lot of people who consider themselves conservatives have such a hard time with this. It SOUNDS like an objection to "free trade," which IS a good thing, when it's practiced as such, but our current brand, as run by the Globalizationists, really isn't free trade.
------------
There is no doubt there is a lot of crony capitalism involved in our "free trade" deals. And that stinks. As I've said I would simply prefer we allow American companies and businesses buy and sell to whomever they want and let other countries worry about themselves. I'm in favor of restrictions for certain adversarial countries, but that is about it.
------------
There is no doubt there is a lot of crony capitalism involved in our "free trade" deals. And that stinks. As I've said I would simply prefer we allow American companies and businesses buy and sell to whomever they want and let other countries worry about themselves. I'm in favor of restrictions for certain adversarial countries, but that is about it.
Posted by: SH at August 12, 2016 05:01 PM (gmeXX)
215
Not when you bring that kind of argument to the table and your name is chemjeff, it isn't.
Posted by: garrett at August 12, 2016 05:00 PM (c1srJ)
Perhaps you might like to discuss your objection to my argument.
Posted by: garrett at August 12, 2016 05:00 PM (c1srJ)
Perhaps you might like to discuss your objection to my argument.
Posted by: chemjeff at August 12, 2016 05:01 PM (uAvJJ)
216
"public schools are not allowed to reject illegals."
Yep. Texas spends an ungodly amount of money educating illegals.
Yep. Texas spends an ungodly amount of money educating illegals.
Posted by: Lauren at August 12, 2016 05:01 PM (hW3u1)
217
I think that's why a lot of people who consider themselves conservatives have such a hard time with this. It SOUNDS like an objection to "free trade," which IS a good thing, when it's practiced as such, but our current brand, as run by the Globalizationists, really isn't free trade.
It's something else, but when you object to them, they can hide behind the claim "See? You people are not True Conservatives, because you don't sufficiently love our free trading!"
Insider deals with rogues and dictators that makes a few people rich, is NOT the same thing as free trade.
Posted by: BurtTC at August 12, 2016 04:58 PM (TOk1P)
It's the same thing with domestic "crony capitalism", which is not the same thing as the free market, and its hard to discuss the subject with people who haven't thought it through. The big corps actually love big gov and more regs because they can lobby and bribe for advantages.
It's something else, but when you object to them, they can hide behind the claim "See? You people are not True Conservatives, because you don't sufficiently love our free trading!"
Insider deals with rogues and dictators that makes a few people rich, is NOT the same thing as free trade.
Posted by: BurtTC at August 12, 2016 04:58 PM (TOk1P)
It's the same thing with domestic "crony capitalism", which is not the same thing as the free market, and its hard to discuss the subject with people who haven't thought it through. The big corps actually love big gov and more regs because they can lobby and bribe for advantages.
Posted by: stace...TEXIT at August 12, 2016 05:02 PM (ozZau)
Posted by: Max Power at August 12, 2016 05:02 PM (q177U)
219
I'm in favor of restrictions for certain adversarial countries, but that is about it.
Posted by: SH at August 12, 2016 05:01 PM (gmeXX)
Agreed.
Posted by: SH at August 12, 2016 05:01 PM (gmeXX)
Agreed.
Posted by: BurtTC at August 12, 2016 05:02 PM (TOk1P)
220
"...the implied converse of the statement - that if you
aren't a citizen, you should be treated like dirt - does not necessarily
follow."
Posted by: chemjeff at August 12, 2016 04:53 PM (uAvJJ)
This is meaningless.
It is called a strawman argument, and I reject it utterly and completely.
aren't a citizen, you should be treated like dirt - does not necessarily
follow."
Posted by: chemjeff at August 12, 2016 04:53 PM (uAvJJ)
This is meaningless.
It is called a strawman argument, and I reject it utterly and completely.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at August 12, 2016 05:02 PM (Zu3d9)
221
>>Perhaps you might like to discuss your objection to my argument.
While our founding document, the Declaration is not our ruling document.
There.
Shine Box. Fetch it.
While our founding document, the Declaration is not our ruling document.
There.
Shine Box. Fetch it.
Posted by: garrett at August 12, 2016 05:02 PM (c1srJ)
222
Ace has been on fire ever since he decided he didn't want to write about politics any more.
Posted by: joe, living dangerously at August 12, 2016 05:03 PM (ef6pV)
223
149 The thing that is absolutely mind blowing these days is that there is no path for the average citizen to secure his family.
My little town passed an ordinance that no future multi family projects or temporary homesteads would be approved.
Our population is under 2000, but growing. We want to make sure that growth is healthy and not a tax drain.
But, nope. The fed is saying such ordinances are *discriminatory*. How dare you try to make your community more prosperous!
You shall take in the section 8 apartments, by God!
And so they decree and so it is done.
Posted by: Lauren at August 12, 2016 04:48 PM (hW3u1)
I cannot recall the exact bill, but Republicans back in May, passed a bill allowing section 8 housing into the suburbs. They did not call it section 8 housing but something else colorful about diversity or along those lines.
I'd look it up but I'm running low on data on my phone.
My little town passed an ordinance that no future multi family projects or temporary homesteads would be approved.
Our population is under 2000, but growing. We want to make sure that growth is healthy and not a tax drain.
But, nope. The fed is saying such ordinances are *discriminatory*. How dare you try to make your community more prosperous!
You shall take in the section 8 apartments, by God!
And so they decree and so it is done.
Posted by: Lauren at August 12, 2016 04:48 PM (hW3u1)
I cannot recall the exact bill, but Republicans back in May, passed a bill allowing section 8 housing into the suburbs. They did not call it section 8 housing but something else colorful about diversity or along those lines.
I'd look it up but I'm running low on data on my phone.
Posted by: Cactus of Liberty at August 12, 2016 05:03 PM (yhYmR)
224
At its heart it is not only a detachment from, but a lack of interest in, the lives of your countrymen, of those who are not at the table, and who understand that they've been abandoned by their leaders' selfishness and mad virtue-signalling.
I hate to say it but the first thing I thought of when I read this was our own Doctor Softhands.
I hate to say it but the first thing I thought of when I read this was our own Doctor Softhands.
Posted by: Grump928(c) says Free Soothie! at August 12, 2016 05:03 PM (evdj2)
225
My take: The bill of rights applies only to American citizens. Of course, I used this argument in voir dire in a federal jury pool, for a trial of an illegal alien, and the judge asked me to go home.
Posted by: Vashta Nerada at August 12, 2016 05:01 PM (7ZVPa)
I'm in 100% agreement with you. I think it's pretty obvious. We may extend privileges to foreigners but they do not have any rights. It is up to their governments to try and secure their rights for them, even while they are here - though we are nice enough to extend these privileges pretty much all the way so that none of them have any such need. But they are privileges, not rights.
Posted by: Vashta Nerada at August 12, 2016 05:01 PM (7ZVPa)
I'm in 100% agreement with you. I think it's pretty obvious. We may extend privileges to foreigners but they do not have any rights. It is up to their governments to try and secure their rights for them, even while they are here - though we are nice enough to extend these privileges pretty much all the way so that none of them have any such need. But they are privileges, not rights.
Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at August 12, 2016 05:04 PM (zc3Db)
226
>>Ace has been on fire ever since he decided he didn't want to write about politics any more.
I think quitting Twitter, Internet Porn and Carbs has been good for him.
...also. Squats.
I think quitting Twitter, Internet Porn and Carbs has been good for him.
...also. Squats.
Posted by: garrett at August 12, 2016 05:04 PM (c1srJ)
227
I looked up the exact number. Texas spends 8.5 Billion/ year educating illegals or children of illegals.
Posted by: Lauren at August 12, 2016 05:04 PM (hW3u1)
228
I'm not a personal fan of Musk but I can acknowledge the dude is on a different level.
Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck at August 12, 2016 05:00 PM (+P27u)
I agree, but I think his fear of the robot uprising is a little silly.
I'll let you in on a little secret I've been sharing with people. WE are the evil robot overlords. When the evil robot overlords take over it will be because they are us. It's the next generation that's fucked.
Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck at August 12, 2016 05:00 PM (+P27u)
I agree, but I think his fear of the robot uprising is a little silly.
I'll let you in on a little secret I've been sharing with people. WE are the evil robot overlords. When the evil robot overlords take over it will be because they are us. It's the next generation that's fucked.
Posted by: Max Power at August 12, 2016 05:04 PM (q177U)
229
Hey, Rural White Working Class! Have we got an Effing Deal for YOU!
We'll move most of your jobs overseas, because it is "efficient" and maximizes shareholder value!
Those jobs that we cannot move overseas, we will fill with people imported from overseas, who will work for less than you.
Other people, the products of the very best educational institutions in their own countries, will be imported to fill the jobs you aspired to for your children. That might seem harsh, but Compete! Win! No, we won't fund rural public schools at any decent level. Bootstraps!
No raises for you! For decades and decades! Because I worked for mine, dammit!
Obviously, you will vote GOP! After all, if you don't leap to accept the deal offered above, you are a racist, a nativist, a "taker", pretty much a loser. You don't want to be those things, right?
VOTE GOP!
P.S., Act now, and we will throw in a wide assortment of Third World crapholes for your sons to die in!!!
We'll move most of your jobs overseas, because it is "efficient" and maximizes shareholder value!
Those jobs that we cannot move overseas, we will fill with people imported from overseas, who will work for less than you.
Other people, the products of the very best educational institutions in their own countries, will be imported to fill the jobs you aspired to for your children. That might seem harsh, but Compete! Win! No, we won't fund rural public schools at any decent level. Bootstraps!
No raises for you! For decades and decades! Because I worked for mine, dammit!
Obviously, you will vote GOP! After all, if you don't leap to accept the deal offered above, you are a racist, a nativist, a "taker", pretty much a loser. You don't want to be those things, right?
VOTE GOP!
P.S., Act now, and we will throw in a wide assortment of Third World crapholes for your sons to die in!!!
Posted by: RichieC at August 12, 2016 05:04 PM (838ff)
230
"The American corporation deserves a leg up for a "level playing field," and the American worker can, what exactly?"
Ace, maybe you're not aware, but the transnational stuff affects American companies as well.
USPS for example gave Chinese eBay sellers much cheaper shipping than USPS gives American sellers.
Free trade gives foreign companies a "level playing field", too. Foreign companies are allowed to invest here. Foreigners are even allowed to purchase our sacred soil, including when sold by MAGA-man himself, Donald Trump.
Yes, some corporations get sweet deals - and I agree that they are the connected ones, with the Davos types leading them.
But it might be a stretch to claim all American companies get the best deals while the worker is screwed.
American low-wage workers pay zero income tax.
American companies have higher corporate income tax than Europe or Japan.
The illegal worker issue is a real one. I guess there are no "illegal companies" that compete, too.
Ace, maybe you're not aware, but the transnational stuff affects American companies as well.
USPS for example gave Chinese eBay sellers much cheaper shipping than USPS gives American sellers.
Free trade gives foreign companies a "level playing field", too. Foreign companies are allowed to invest here. Foreigners are even allowed to purchase our sacred soil, including when sold by MAGA-man himself, Donald Trump.
Yes, some corporations get sweet deals - and I agree that they are the connected ones, with the Davos types leading them.
But it might be a stretch to claim all American companies get the best deals while the worker is screwed.
American low-wage workers pay zero income tax.
American companies have higher corporate income tax than Europe or Japan.
The illegal worker issue is a real one. I guess there are no "illegal companies" that compete, too.
Posted by: Sexypig at August 12, 2016 05:04 PM (UBBWX)
231
While our founding document, the Declaration is not our ruling document.
I didn't say it was a ruling document. However it still guides the philosophy of this nation, I would argue.
I didn't say it was a ruling document. However it still guides the philosophy of this nation, I would argue.
Posted by: chemjeff at August 12, 2016 05:05 PM (uAvJJ)
232
It's the same thing with domestic "crony capitalism", which is not the same thing as the free market, and its hard to discuss the subject with people who haven't thought it through. The big corps actually love big gov and more regs because they can lobby and bribe for advantages.
Posted by: stace...TEXIT at August 12, 2016 05:02 PM (ozZau)
It's funny, for the longest time I sorta shrugged at the term "crony capitalism" because it always struck me as anathema to the so-called conservative movement. I will admit being naïve when it came to the concept. Honestly, it took the Age of Obama for me to really open my eyes to it.
Posted by: stace...TEXIT at August 12, 2016 05:02 PM (ozZau)
It's funny, for the longest time I sorta shrugged at the term "crony capitalism" because it always struck me as anathema to the so-called conservative movement. I will admit being naïve when it came to the concept. Honestly, it took the Age of Obama for me to really open my eyes to it.
Posted by: BurtTC at August 12, 2016 05:05 PM (TOk1P)
233
>>>So while I would agree with you that, all else
equal, the state should favor the citizen over the non-citizen simply by
virtue of having a closer social and cultural connection to the
citizen, the implied converse of the statement - that if you aren't a
citizen, you should be treated like dirt - does not necessarily follow.
Posted by: chemjeff at August 12, 2016 04:53 PM (uAvJJ)<<<
The only "treatment" they should be getting here is to a bus/plane ticket to whatever country they call home, that way evil America/Americans won't be able to "treat them like dirt".
equal, the state should favor the citizen over the non-citizen simply by
virtue of having a closer social and cultural connection to the
citizen, the implied converse of the statement - that if you aren't a
citizen, you should be treated like dirt - does not necessarily follow.
Posted by: chemjeff at August 12, 2016 04:53 PM (uAvJJ)<<<
The only "treatment" they should be getting here is to a bus/plane ticket to whatever country they call home, that way evil America/Americans won't be able to "treat them like dirt".
Posted by: a modest proposal at August 12, 2016 05:05 PM (H9MG5)
234
I think that's why a lot of people who consider themselves conservatives have such a hard time with this. It SOUNDS like an objection to "free trade," which IS a good thing, when it's practiced as such, but our current brand, as run by the Globalizationists, really isn't free trade.
It's something else, but when you object to them, they can hide behind the claim "See? You people are not True Conservatives, because you don't sufficiently love our free trading!"
Posted by: BurtTC at August 12, 2016 04:58 PM (TOk1P)
Advocacy for free trade is a fairly recent addition to "conservative orthodoxy".
It's something else, but when you object to them, they can hide behind the claim "See? You people are not True Conservatives, because you don't sufficiently love our free trading!"
Posted by: BurtTC at August 12, 2016 04:58 PM (TOk1P)
Advocacy for free trade is a fairly recent addition to "conservative orthodoxy".
Posted by: Emmett Milbarge at August 12, 2016 05:05 PM (nFdGS)
235
>>>So while I would agree with you that, all else equal, the state should favor the citizen over the non-citizen simply by virtue of having a closer social and cultural connection to the citizen, the implied converse of the statement - that if you aren't a citizen, you should be treated like dirt - does not necessarily follow.
yeah thanks for pointing out, that was totally implied by my words, and I'm glad you pointed out that Racism is Bad
thank you
what would I do without someone saying Racism is Bad every five seconds
yeah thanks for pointing out, that was totally implied by my words, and I'm glad you pointed out that Racism is Bad
thank you
what would I do without someone saying Racism is Bad every five seconds
Posted by: ace at August 12, 2016 05:05 PM (dciA+)
236
My take: The bill of rights applies only to American citizens. Of course, I used this argument in voir dire in a federal jury pool, for a trial of an illegal alien, and the judge asked me to go home.
Posted by: Vashta Nerada
If it covers everyone, someone put some knowledge on e as to the advantage of being a citizen.
Posted by: Vashta Nerada
If it covers everyone, someone put some knowledge on e as to the advantage of being a citizen.
Posted by: rickb223 TEXIT at August 12, 2016 05:06 PM (UYkjZ)
237
My take: The bill of rights applies only to American citizens. Of course, I used this argument in voir dire in a federal jury pool, for a trial of an illegal alien, and the judge asked me to go home.
Posted by: Vashta Nerada at August 12, 2016 05:01 PM (7ZVPa)
I'm in 100% agreement with you. I think it's pretty obvious. We may extend privileges to foreigners but they do not have any rights. It is up to their governments to try and secure their rights for them, even while they are here - though we are nice enough to extend these privileges pretty much all the way so that none of them have any such need. But they are privileges, not rights.
-----------
I think the 5th pretty much covers anyone. The founders knew the difference between a person and a citizen. But hey, the 1st technically only prohibits Congress.
Posted by: Vashta Nerada at August 12, 2016 05:01 PM (7ZVPa)
I'm in 100% agreement with you. I think it's pretty obvious. We may extend privileges to foreigners but they do not have any rights. It is up to their governments to try and secure their rights for them, even while they are here - though we are nice enough to extend these privileges pretty much all the way so that none of them have any such need. But they are privileges, not rights.
-----------
I think the 5th pretty much covers anyone. The founders knew the difference between a person and a citizen. But hey, the 1st technically only prohibits Congress.
Posted by: SH at August 12, 2016 05:06 PM (gmeXX)
238
I looked up the exact number. Texas spends 8.5 Billion/ year educating illegals or children of illegals.
Posted by: Lauren at August 12, 2016 05:04 PM (hW3u1)
And Rick Perry pushed hard for in-state tuition for illegals, which, to me, is one of the most offensive, illegal and stupid policies around.
Posted by: Lauren at August 12, 2016 05:04 PM (hW3u1)
And Rick Perry pushed hard for in-state tuition for illegals, which, to me, is one of the most offensive, illegal and stupid policies around.
Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at August 12, 2016 05:06 PM (zc3Db)
239
"People like Jeffery Immelt who know how to work with Presidents and foreign leaders and get things done."
Oh FFS. GE and Immelt are poster cases for what's wrong.
Neutron Jack Welch led the charge to outsource US jobs. Fine. Now let GE go fight China in the South China Sea.
GE would have gone broke in 2008-2009 were it not for a massive federal intervention -- bigger than any other company.
Why do you think a GE-owned NBC bent so left politically.
Oh FFS. GE and Immelt are poster cases for what's wrong.
Neutron Jack Welch led the charge to outsource US jobs. Fine. Now let GE go fight China in the South China Sea.
GE would have gone broke in 2008-2009 were it not for a massive federal intervention -- bigger than any other company.
Why do you think a GE-owned NBC bent so left politically.
Posted by: Ignoramus at August 12, 2016 05:06 PM (r1fLd)
240
So while I would agree with you that, all else equal, the state should favor the citizen over the non-citizen simply by virtue of having a closer social and cultural connection to the citizen, the implied converse of the statement - that if you aren't a citizen, you should be treated like dirt - does not necessarily follow.
Posted by: chemjeff at August 12, 2016
******
Please tell me who advocates that non citizens should be treated like dirt? Their home countries treat them like dirt which is why they flee to Western countries precisely bc they are treated generously with welfare and healthcare. That's a straw man argument.
Again, please tell me anyone that advocates that non citizens be treated like dirt?
Posted by: chemjeff at August 12, 2016
******
Please tell me who advocates that non citizens should be treated like dirt? Their home countries treat them like dirt which is why they flee to Western countries precisely bc they are treated generously with welfare and healthcare. That's a straw man argument.
Again, please tell me anyone that advocates that non citizens be treated like dirt?
Posted by: L, Elle who is patiently waiting for her I Got Banned by Maetenloch t-shirt at August 12, 2016 05:06 PM (6IPEM)
241
Posted by: Max Power at August 12, 2016 05:04 PM (q177U)
Agree. History is full of geniuses who are a little nutty.
Agree. History is full of geniuses who are a little nutty.
Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck at August 12, 2016 05:07 PM (+P27u)
242
It's funny that Peggy Noonan wrote this, knowing how she (herself of upper class) loathed Palin for being too country. Peggy stayed true to her class, looking down on Palin, b/c of the guns and Palin went to state school. But Sarah was looked down on by her (our) betters because she didn't abort her baby a)because she was in her 40's, b)because her little redneck baby had Downs. And of course Bristol found her high school self knocked up, and SHE didn't abort.
You mean to tell me that all these media women don't accidentally get pregnant in their 40's? Or their teenagers dont? None of them? The establishment takes care of their "problems" while some of us prolifers are actually.....prolife.
You may speak truth today, Peggy, but you can still suck it.
You mean to tell me that all these media women don't accidentally get pregnant in their 40's? Or their teenagers dont? None of them? The establishment takes care of their "problems" while some of us prolifers are actually.....prolife.
You may speak truth today, Peggy, but you can still suck it.
Posted by: RedEnchilada at August 12, 2016 05:07 PM (+i7ay)
243
>>However it still guides the philosophy of this nation, I would argue.
And you would argue it poorly.
And you would argue it poorly.
Posted by: garrett at August 12, 2016 05:07 PM (c1srJ)
244
Those of you who do not like Ayn Rand because of her atheism should read Terry Goodkind's Faith of The Fallen. He makes another sound argument for Ayn Rand's economic philosophy.
And I never saw anything in the book or the movie based on the book in which atheism was preached.
And I never saw anything in the book or the movie based on the book in which atheism was preached.
Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at August 12, 2016 05:07 PM (mpXpK)
245
"Hey, Rural White Working Class!"
What happened to the urban working class?
Oh right, the factories moved from cities to the countryside because rural white working class has lower wages than city working class.
The whole "move production to where its cheaper" is only good when it moves to where the white rural people are?
Or do we have new laws that move factories back to New york city, where they originally were?
Should BMW be forced to build its plants in Detroit, because unfair cheap labor in Alabama ?
What happened to the urban working class?
Oh right, the factories moved from cities to the countryside because rural white working class has lower wages than city working class.
The whole "move production to where its cheaper" is only good when it moves to where the white rural people are?
Or do we have new laws that move factories back to New york city, where they originally were?
Should BMW be forced to build its plants in Detroit, because unfair cheap labor in Alabama ?
Posted by: Sexypig at August 12, 2016 05:07 PM (UBBWX)
246
I cannot recall the exact bill, but Republicans back in May, passed a bill allowing section 8 housing into the suburbs. They did not call it section 8 housing but something else colorful about diversity or along those lines.
__________________
"Affirmatively Furthering Fair Housing"
Because who wouldn't want to be "fair," right?
__________________
"Affirmatively Furthering Fair Housing"
Because who wouldn't want to be "fair," right?
Posted by: TrivialPursuer at August 12, 2016 05:07 PM (NnYnv)
247
It is called a strawman argument, and I reject it utterly and completely.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at August 12, 2016 05:02 PM (Zu3d9)
He knows. But he thinks he's smarter than everyone else around here, and you'll not notice.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at August 12, 2016 05:02 PM (Zu3d9)
He knows. But he thinks he's smarter than everyone else around here, and you'll not notice.
Posted by: BurtTC at August 12, 2016 05:07 PM (TOk1P)
248
If it covers everyone, someone put some knowledge on e as to the advantage of being a citizen.
Posted by: rickb223 TEXIT
--
That exact thought occurred to me, but I was wise enough not to voice it out loud, and risk a contempt citation.
Posted by: rickb223 TEXIT
--
That exact thought occurred to me, but I was wise enough not to voice it out loud, and risk a contempt citation.
Posted by: Vashta Nerada at August 12, 2016 05:08 PM (7ZVPa)
249
, the implied converse of the statement - that if you aren't a citizen, you should be treated like dirt - does not necessarily follow.
Posted by: chemjeff at August 12, 2016
The other day you wanted to know why people here get pissed off at you. You know why? Yeah, insulting crap like this. Which is fairly regular from you.
Posted by: chemjeff at August 12, 2016
The other day you wanted to know why people here get pissed off at you. You know why? Yeah, insulting crap like this. Which is fairly regular from you.
Posted by: buzzion at August 12, 2016 05:08 PM (z/Ubi)
250
RACISM IS BAD!
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at August 12, 2016 05:08 PM (Zu3d9)
251
This is meaningless.
It is called a strawman argument, and I reject it utterly and completely.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at August 12, 2016 05:02 PM (Zu3d9)
Please see:
http://minx.cc:1080/?post=365097
Comment 666, and then the follow-up comments 678 and 686. I would like to know what you think of the discussion.
It is called a strawman argument, and I reject it utterly and completely.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at August 12, 2016 05:02 PM (Zu3d9)
Please see:
http://minx.cc:1080/?post=365097
Comment 666, and then the follow-up comments 678 and 686. I would like to know what you think of the discussion.
Posted by: chemjeff at August 12, 2016 05:08 PM (uAvJJ)
252
...but I think his fear of the robot uprising is a little silly.
Posted by: Max Power
----
Whether we're talking about a robo-utopia or gay marriage, I just want to be allowed to refrain from participation in some "visionary's" notion of the future.
Tech is as insistent on prodding me on a forced march into their view of the future as progressive perverts are.
I don't like forced marches for some odd reason.
Posted by: Max Power
----
Whether we're talking about a robo-utopia or gay marriage, I just want to be allowed to refrain from participation in some "visionary's" notion of the future.
Tech is as insistent on prodding me on a forced march into their view of the future as progressive perverts are.
I don't like forced marches for some odd reason.
Posted by: RKae at August 12, 2016 05:08 PM (CYNno)
253
Because early American elites were frankly better people, in most senses of the word better, then the current elites.
Posted by: 18-1 at August 12, 2016 04:59 PM (X7E8f
_____
That is probably true, but it is just as true of the population as a whole. The average American of the 18th century was way more disciplined and in control of his life than Americans are today. Taking the current state of society into account, I guess one must conclude that there is a greater need for leadership from our elites today than back then.
To exercise ones militant aversion against this can only be counter productive.
Posted by: 18-1 at August 12, 2016 04:59 PM (X7E8f
_____
That is probably true, but it is just as true of the population as a whole. The average American of the 18th century was way more disciplined and in control of his life than Americans are today. Taking the current state of society into account, I guess one must conclude that there is a greater need for leadership from our elites today than back then.
To exercise ones militant aversion against this can only be counter productive.
Posted by: Begonia at August 12, 2016 05:08 PM (jb74g)
254
238 And Rick Perry pushed hard for in-state tuition for
illegals, which, to me, is one of the most offensive, illegal and stupid
policies around.
Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at August 12, 2016 05:06 PM (zc3Db)
He is not the first Red State gov to do that. If you look around his qualifications for illegals getting in-state tuition were the same as or harsher than a lot of other States who already do the same thing.
illegals, which, to me, is one of the most offensive, illegal and stupid
policies around.
Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at August 12, 2016 05:06 PM (zc3Db)
He is not the first Red State gov to do that. If you look around his qualifications for illegals getting in-state tuition were the same as or harsher than a lot of other States who already do the same thing.
Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at August 12, 2016 05:09 PM (mpXpK)
255
Any Rand was right.
Posted by: Noovuss at August 12, 2016 05:09 PM (LSOWG)
256
"P.S., Act now, and we will throw in a wide assortment of Third World crapholes for your sons to die in!!!"
And what's more, die ineffectually!
Those of your sons who are merely wounded while serving in the crapholes? We've set up a lovely government program to ensure that they die too! Just leave it to us. We've got this.
And what's more, die ineffectually!
Those of your sons who are merely wounded while serving in the crapholes? We've set up a lovely government program to ensure that they die too! Just leave it to us. We've got this.
Posted by: torquewrench at August 12, 2016 05:09 PM (noWW6)
257
Best example of Crony capitalism? The transcontinental RR.
The best example of capitalism? The Great Northern RR.
The best example of capitalism? The Great Northern RR.
Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck at August 12, 2016 05:09 PM (+P27u)
258
The Ponzi scheme is already failing; see Japan. The scheme cannot run with falling populations, and outside of Africa, the entire world is at or near population peak. One reason for abetting illegal immigration is to try and forestall the collapse that comes from having a welfare state in a nation with a declining population.
Posted by: Vashta Nerada at August 12, 2016 04:50 PM (7ZVPa)
We need to let poor old Ponzi rest in peace already. "Madoff" scheme is much more applicable nowadays.
Ponzi was small potatoes compared to Bernie. Like Frank Pentangeli was to Hyman Roth.
Posted by: Vashta Nerada at August 12, 2016 04:50 PM (7ZVPa)
We need to let poor old Ponzi rest in peace already. "Madoff" scheme is much more applicable nowadays.
Ponzi was small potatoes compared to Bernie. Like Frank Pentangeli was to Hyman Roth.
Posted by: Hairyback Guy at August 12, 2016 05:09 PM (ej1L0)
259
"Please tell me who advocates that non citizens should be treated like dirt? Their home countries treat them like dirt which is why they flee to Western countries precisely bc they are treated generously with welfare and healthcare."
Again, the assumption that all immigrants come here for welfare and healthcare.
Again, the assumption that all immigrants come here for welfare and healthcare.
Posted by: Sexypig at August 12, 2016 05:09 PM (UBBWX)
260
Chemjeff is that annoying twerp from 5th grade who got right in your face and said "I can stand "this" close to you as long as I don't tough and you can't do anything about it!"
And then he got clocked for being a wiseass.
Chemjeff is that annoying twerp from 5th grade who got right in your face and said "I can stand "this" close to you as long as I don't tough and you can't do anything about it!"
And then he got clocked for being a wiseass.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at August 12, 2016 05:09 PM (9P3OG)
261
Noonan is dead to me. Resting on the laurels of a fortunate job from decades ago, she is a DC cocktail elite that (quoting someone I forgot) snobtalks "like she is balancing a plate on top of her head" while contributing nothing to the debate. Her and Kathleen Parker can lick my sweaty balls for what they did to Sarah Palin.
Posted by: oddknot still frets at August 12, 2016 05:09 PM (g1MTt)
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at August 12, 2016 05:10 PM (9P3OG)
263
Someone above mentioned the 2008 bailouts. That was the tipping point in my mind. No more rule of law (not a single person in finance has gone to prison), too-big-to-fail (the media has adopted this attitude for themselves) and the ease with which politicians were able to wipe out the wealth of future generations has only emboldened them to blatantly lie to our faces more. They truly have nothing to lose any more.
I really believe history will mark the financial crisis of 2008 as the watershed. $20 trillion in debt now? Fuck Wall Street.
I really believe history will mark the financial crisis of 2008 as the watershed. $20 trillion in debt now? Fuck Wall Street.
Posted by: Brian in New Orleans at August 12, 2016 05:10 PM (UBzPO)
264
>>Ponzi was small potatoes compared to Bernie. Like Frank Pentangeli was to Hyman Roth.
It was never personal *cough*. It was just business *cough*.
Make sure everyone sees the cake.
It was never personal *cough*. It was just business *cough*.
Make sure everyone sees the cake.
Posted by: Hyman Roth at August 12, 2016 05:10 PM (/tuJf)
265
"Taking the current state of society into account, I guess one must conclude that there is a greater need for leadership from our elites today than back then. "
Your conclusion does not follow from your premise.
Your conclusion does not follow from your premise.
Posted by: Lauren at August 12, 2016 05:10 PM (hW3u1)
Posted by: cicero Kaboom! kid at August 12, 2016 05:10 PM (p0XHr)
Posted by: Mr. Peebles at August 12, 2016 05:11 PM (vP09u)
268
Best example of Crony capitalism? The transcontinental RR.
The best example of capitalism? The Great Northern RR.
Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck
--
You are so right! JJ Hill is one of my heroes.
The best example of capitalism? The Great Northern RR.
Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck
--
You are so right! JJ Hill is one of my heroes.
Posted by: Vashta Nerada at August 12, 2016 05:11 PM (7ZVPa)
269
Again, the assumption that all immigrants come here for welfare and healthcare.
Posted by: Sexypig at August 12, 2016 05:09 PM (UBBWX)
_____________________
It's just a coincidence that they're disproportionately represented on our welfare rolls?
Posted by: Sexypig at August 12, 2016 05:09 PM (UBBWX)
_____________________
It's just a coincidence that they're disproportionately represented on our welfare rolls?
Posted by: TrivialPursuer at August 12, 2016 05:11 PM (NnYnv)
270
>> Noonan is dead to me.
Noonan is the broken clock who's right twice a day.
Her remark - not an exact quote, but close enough - that Democrats think their base is crazy and Republicans think their base is stupid, is still the most astute comment made on American politics in the last twenty years.
She's not dead to me, but I read her skeptically.
As for Ace's piece, damn straight.
Noonan is the broken clock who's right twice a day.
Her remark - not an exact quote, but close enough - that Democrats think their base is crazy and Republicans think their base is stupid, is still the most astute comment made on American politics in the last twenty years.
She's not dead to me, but I read her skeptically.
As for Ace's piece, damn straight.
Posted by: JEM at August 12, 2016 05:11 PM (o+SC1)
271
We have no poor in America
Decades ago my Indian friend said the same thing. He said that to be poor in America was to have a black & white TV and ride the bus. To be poor in India was to have no clothes.
Decades ago my Indian friend said the same thing. He said that to be poor in America was to have a black & white TV and ride the bus. To be poor in India was to have no clothes.
Posted by: Grump928(c) says Free Soothie! at August 12, 2016 05:12 PM (evdj2)
272
Great post, ace.
I think the globalists and "progressives" are actually trying to re-create a medieval feudal social structure, where there is only a hereditary aristocracy and the peasantry. They are actively killing the middle class.
I think the globalists and "progressives" are actually trying to re-create a medieval feudal social structure, where there is only a hereditary aristocracy and the peasantry. They are actively killing the middle class.
Posted by: rickl at August 12, 2016 05:12 PM (zoehZ)
273
Chemjeff is that annoying twerp from 5th grade who got right in your face and said "I can stand "this" close to you as long as I don't tough and you can't do anything about it!"
And then he got clocked for being a wiseass.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton
----
I've always hated the fuck out of that line "Your right to swing your fist stops where my nose begins."
Like it's somehow tyrannical for society to say, "Swinging your fist around is a stupid hobby, and we're not going to allow it."
And then he got clocked for being a wiseass.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton
----
I've always hated the fuck out of that line "Your right to swing your fist stops where my nose begins."
Like it's somehow tyrannical for society to say, "Swinging your fist around is a stupid hobby, and we're not going to allow it."
Posted by: RKae at August 12, 2016 05:12 PM (CYNno)
274
>>Again, the assumption that all immigrants come here for welfare and healthcare.
Someone's using the ERs!
Someone's using the ERs!
Posted by: Donald Trump's Forehead Merkin at August 12, 2016 05:12 PM (c1srJ)
275
242
It's funny that Peggy Noonan wrote this, knowing how she (herself of
upper class) loathed Palin for being too country. Peggy stayed true to
her class, looking down on Palin, b/c of the guns and Palin went to
state school.
Yes. A week or so ago, Peggy's pal Kathleen Parker wrote a scoldy piece about the non-GOPe, and HAD to get a dig in at Palin by calling her a "gal governor."
I'm no Palin fan anymore, but she's been living rent-free in what passes for a brain in Kathy Parker's head. The same Ms. Parker who had no problem sharing a desk in a failed show on CNN. With Elliot Spitzer.
It's funny that Peggy Noonan wrote this, knowing how she (herself of
upper class) loathed Palin for being too country. Peggy stayed true to
her class, looking down on Palin, b/c of the guns and Palin went to
state school.
Yes. A week or so ago, Peggy's pal Kathleen Parker wrote a scoldy piece about the non-GOPe, and HAD to get a dig in at Palin by calling her a "gal governor."
I'm no Palin fan anymore, but she's been living rent-free in what passes for a brain in Kathy Parker's head. The same Ms. Parker who had no problem sharing a desk in a failed show on CNN. With Elliot Spitzer.
Posted by: Jane D'oh at August 12, 2016 05:12 PM (1ZOkK)
276
266 Where are these "poor" u speak of?
Srsly.
We have no poor in America
Posted by: cicero Kaboom! kid at August 12, 2016 05:10 PM (p0XHr)
Record numbers on Food stamps (46 million?), never ending welfare, disability, Medicare and Medicaid, Section 8 housing and every other "freebie" under the sun. AND the Fed redefines the poverty line UPWARD.
The next time I see a panhandler in NYC I might go off on him.
Srsly.
We have no poor in America
Posted by: cicero Kaboom! kid at August 12, 2016 05:10 PM (p0XHr)
Record numbers on Food stamps (46 million?), never ending welfare, disability, Medicare and Medicaid, Section 8 housing and every other "freebie" under the sun. AND the Fed redefines the poverty line UPWARD.
The next time I see a panhandler in NYC I might go off on him.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at August 12, 2016 05:13 PM (9P3OG)
277
Electric cars were invited in the early 1900's, elon musk is a copycat. The Germans invented rockets in the early 40's, elon musk is a copycat. Western union invented wiring money a long time ago, elon musk is a copycat. And if you believe hamster tubes are a new form of transportation look up when subways came on line. Elon Musk sucks off the government teat unlike the true visionaries of the past.
Posted by: Tinfoilbaby at August 12, 2016 05:13 PM (6Ll1u)
278
Her and Kathleen Parker can lick my sweaty balls for what they did to Sarah Palin.
A bold offer, my good sir. I will consider it.
A bold offer, my good sir. I will consider it.
Posted by: Peggy Noonan at August 12, 2016 05:13 PM (jyInK)
279
Also: Mr Stephens is quite right. Reagan had a very positive, optimistic view of immigration and trade. He also signed an amnesty bill, which i thoiught was one of those "transnational progressive" sins, that make one unacceptable in the rougher quarters of the conservative movement, no?
Posted by: Begonia
Nope. He's wrong and so are you ... big surprise, right?
Reagan later said he regretted signing the '86 amnesty because Congress did not carry out the promised enforcment provision because, Get this , they lied.
Oh, and that 'one-time-only' deal? Yeah, back again in '90 for another round of promises that wasn't kept.
And then again in '96 another 'one-time-only' amnesty attemp that was stopped.
Oh, again in 2006.
Odd how regular this is becoming.
The only response to an institution that has promised repeatedly to stop unmetered immigration only to turn around and drop them altogether is Fuck you.
Posted by: Begonia
Nope. He's wrong and so are you ... big surprise, right?
Reagan later said he regretted signing the '86 amnesty because Congress did not carry out the promised enforcment provision because, Get this , they lied.
Oh, and that 'one-time-only' deal? Yeah, back again in '90 for another round of promises that wasn't kept.
And then again in '96 another 'one-time-only' amnesty attemp that was stopped.
Oh, again in 2006.
Odd how regular this is becoming.
The only response to an institution that has promised repeatedly to stop unmetered immigration only to turn around and drop them altogether is Fuck you.
Posted by: weft cut-loop at August 12, 2016 05:13 PM (9sySV)
280
"...the implied converse of the statement - that if you
aren't a citizen, you should be treated like dirt - does not necessarily
follow."
Dirt with a free lunch.
"...the implied converse of the statement - that if you
aren't a citizen, you should be treated like dirt - does not necessarily
follow."
Dirt with a free lunch.
Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at August 12, 2016 05:13 PM (IqV8l)
281
"Again, the assumption that all immigrants come here for welfare and healthcare. "
Good thing I've got the numbers pulled up already!
Texas spends 12.1 Billion annually on illegal immigrants and their children.
Good thing I've got the numbers pulled up already!
Texas spends 12.1 Billion annually on illegal immigrants and their children.
Posted by: Lauren at August 12, 2016 05:13 PM (hW3u1)
282
>>>Again, the assumption that all immigrants come here for welfare and healthcare.
Posted by: Sexypig at August 12, 2016 05:09 PM (UBBWX)<<<
We're just using the EBT cards that Americans won't.
Posted by: Sexypig at August 12, 2016 05:09 PM (UBBWX)<<<
We're just using the EBT cards that Americans won't.
Posted by: illegals in the shadows at August 12, 2016 05:14 PM (H9MG5)
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at August 12, 2016 05:14 PM (9P3OG)
284
I do wish everyone would quit using that term "crony capitalism". First off it was invented by the liberals to somehow tar capitalism as a corrupt process. Second making laws to benefit one's "cronies" has nothing to do with capitalism. It is outright illegal corruption. So the better term is "crony corruption".
Something Obama and ALL the other Democrats excel at.
Something Obama and ALL the other Democrats excel at.
Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at August 12, 2016 05:14 PM (mpXpK)
285
Experience teaches us that the average man who protests that his international feeling swamps his national feeling, that he does not care for his country because he cares so much for mankind, in actual practice proves himself the foe of mankind; that the man who says that he does not care to be a citizen of any one country, because he is the citizen of the world, is in fact usually and exceedingly undesirable citizen of whatever corner of the world he happens at the moment to be in. In the dim future all moral needs and moral standards may change; but at present, if a man can view his own country and all others countries from the same level with tepid indifference, it is wise to distrust him.
Sincerely,
Sincerely,
Posted by: Teddy Roosevelt at August 12, 2016 05:14 PM (Ndje9)
286
>>Best example of Crony capitalism? The transcontinental RR.
>>The best example of capitalism? The Great Northern RR.
It was no accident that railroads played such a prominent role with Rand.
>>The best example of capitalism? The Great Northern RR.
It was no accident that railroads played such a prominent role with Rand.
Posted by: JackStraw at August 12, 2016 05:14 PM (/tuJf)
287
I had to work hard for it.
Posted by: allenlou at August 12, 2016 04:16 PM (+aCe4)
Regale us with tales of "hard" work. Did you walk 10 miles to school in the snow, across fields of razor blades and used heroine needles? Did you work your way through college in a sweat shop. Sowing Adidas track suits with your feet while writing your papers for school? Tell us what you imagine "hard" work is. I'm bored and could use the entertainment.
Posted by: allenlou at August 12, 2016 04:16 PM (+aCe4)
Regale us with tales of "hard" work. Did you walk 10 miles to school in the snow, across fields of razor blades and used heroine needles? Did you work your way through college in a sweat shop. Sowing Adidas track suits with your feet while writing your papers for school? Tell us what you imagine "hard" work is. I'm bored and could use the entertainment.
Posted by: DFCtomm at August 12, 2016 05:15 PM (4PEWr)
288
>>I think the globalists and "progressives" are actually trying to re-create a medieval feudal social structure, where there is only a hereditary aristocracy and the peasantry. They are actively killing the middle class.
They seek to control the means of production and in a free society those means of production are the individual.
They seek to control the means of production and in a free society those means of production are the individual.
Posted by: garrett at August 12, 2016 05:15 PM (c1srJ)
289
277 Electric cars were invited in the early 1900's, elon musk is a copycat. The Germans invented rockets in the early 40's, elon musk is a copycat. Western union invented wiring money a long time ago, elon musk is a copycat. And if you believe hamster tubes are a new form of transportation look up when subways came on line. Elon Musk sucks off the government teat unlike the true visionaries of the past.
Posted by: Tinfoilbaby at August 12, 2016 05:13 PM (6Ll1u)
Jeez, give me $500 million and I can invent something! I think I'll call it "the vacation!"
Winning!
Posted by: Tinfoilbaby at August 12, 2016 05:13 PM (6Ll1u)
Jeez, give me $500 million and I can invent something! I think I'll call it "the vacation!"
Winning!
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at August 12, 2016 05:15 PM (9P3OG)
290
Wait, isn't Peggy Noonan one of those "conservative commentators" that voted for TFG? Twice, if I remember correctly?
So why in the hell would I listen to anything she has to say? Serve, broken clocks and all that....but still, she's a big part of the problem and now, NOW she's warning us about looking at those rednecks in fly-over land with contempt? (btw, I'm sure, living in western NC and owning a shitload of guns earns me bonus points in that particular demographic).
Also, just a heads-up, Ace, those fuckers aren't elite. SEALs are elite. Astronauts are elite. A bunch of rich assholes who were born with a trust fund (paging Jeb Bush, Jeb Bush to the courtesy phone....) are not elite. I'm sure they like to think so, but no. Not even close.
So why in the hell would I listen to anything she has to say? Serve, broken clocks and all that....but still, she's a big part of the problem and now, NOW she's warning us about looking at those rednecks in fly-over land with contempt? (btw, I'm sure, living in western NC and owning a shitload of guns earns me bonus points in that particular demographic).
Also, just a heads-up, Ace, those fuckers aren't elite. SEALs are elite. Astronauts are elite. A bunch of rich assholes who were born with a trust fund (paging Jeb Bush, Jeb Bush to the courtesy phone....) are not elite. I'm sure they like to think so, but no. Not even close.
Posted by: Pave Low John at August 12, 2016 05:15 PM (OejZ/)
291
245 "Hey, Rural White Working Class!"
What happened to the urban working class?
Oh right, the factories moved from cities to the countryside because rural white working class has lower wages than city working class.
The whole "move production to where its cheaper" is only good when it moves to where the white rural people are?
Or do we have new laws that move factories back to New york city, where they originally were?
Should BMW be forced to build its plants in Detroit, because unfair cheap labor in Alabama ?
Posted by: Sexypig at August 12, 2016 05:07 PM (UBBWX)
No labor laws.
What happened to the urban working class?
Oh right, the factories moved from cities to the countryside because rural white working class has lower wages than city working class.
The whole "move production to where its cheaper" is only good when it moves to where the white rural people are?
Or do we have new laws that move factories back to New york city, where they originally were?
Should BMW be forced to build its plants in Detroit, because unfair cheap labor in Alabama ?
Posted by: Sexypig at August 12, 2016 05:07 PM (UBBWX)
No labor laws.
Posted by: Cactus of Liberty at August 12, 2016 05:15 PM (yhYmR)
292
"And Rick Perry pushed hard for in-state tuition for illegals, which, to me, is one of the most offensive, illegal and stupid policies around."
Not only did Perry push this, but when challenged on it, instead of mounting some sort of a factual defense of it as a necessary public policy response to a larger situation beyond immediate gubernatorial control, he resorted to the left's emotive language and said that anyone who disagreed with him on the issue was heartless.
Not only did Perry push this, but when challenged on it, instead of mounting some sort of a factual defense of it as a necessary public policy response to a larger situation beyond immediate gubernatorial control, he resorted to the left's emotive language and said that anyone who disagreed with him on the issue was heartless.
Posted by: torquewrench at August 12, 2016 05:15 PM (noWW6)
Posted by: garrett at August 12, 2016 05:15 PM (c1srJ)
294
Texas spends 12.1 Billion annually on illegal immigrants and their children.
_____________________
California spend more than $25 billion a year, and that's based on 2013 figures.
_____________________
California spend more than $25 billion a year, and that's based on 2013 figures.
Posted by: TrivialPursuer at August 12, 2016 05:15 PM (NnYnv)
295
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at August 12, 2016 05:13 PM (9P3OG)
46 million sounds even worse when you state it as a percentage. That's 15% of the population !
46 million sounds even worse when you state it as a percentage. That's 15% of the population !
Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck at August 12, 2016 05:15 PM (+P27u)
296
"Someone's using the ERs!"
If you specified "illegal immigrants" or even "poor immigrants" I would say that is maybe an issue.
But "all immigrants" includes people like my doctor. I doubt he immigrated here to stiff an ER.
If you specified "illegal immigrants" or even "poor immigrants" I would say that is maybe an issue.
But "all immigrants" includes people like my doctor. I doubt he immigrated here to stiff an ER.
Posted by: Sexypig at August 12, 2016 05:16 PM (UBBWX)
297
Also: Mr Stephens is quite right. Reagan had a very positive, optimistic view of immigration and trade. He also signed an amnesty bill, which i thoiught was one of those "transnational progressive" sins, that make one unacceptable in the rougher quarters of the conservative movement, no?
^^^
I love how people who go here always, always neglect to mention that the amnesty was *supposed* to be in exchange for border security....which the Donks later reneged on. Oh, and that there's quite a bit of evidence from the people who were aroud him at the time that he openly said later he regretted the amnesty and it was the biggest mistake of his presidency.
That's always omitted for some reason. Wonder why that could be. :/
^^^
I love how people who go here always, always neglect to mention that the amnesty was *supposed* to be in exchange for border security....which the Donks later reneged on. Oh, and that there's quite a bit of evidence from the people who were aroud him at the time that he openly said later he regretted the amnesty and it was the biggest mistake of his presidency.
That's always omitted for some reason. Wonder why that could be. :/
Posted by: Mandy P. (Not Patinkin), lurking lurker who lurks at August 12, 2016 05:16 PM (KkVB6)
298
I do wish everyone would quit using that term "crony capitalism". First off it was invented by the liberals to somehow tar capitalism as a corrupt process.
------------
You are right about that. I'll try to limit my use of it, but unfortunately it has a meaning we all know. We meaning those of us on this board.
------------
You are right about that. I'll try to limit my use of it, but unfortunately it has a meaning we all know. We meaning those of us on this board.
Posted by: SH at August 12, 2016 05:16 PM (gmeXX)
299
Know how the Central Pacific cut costs to help build transcontinental railroad? Yup, by changing the laws to allow more Chinese (who were once derided) into California. Why? Lower labor costs. Both side essentially want the same thing: cheap labor.
Posted by: n8sebaka at August 12, 2016 05:16 PM (tt+/d)
300
Noonan's insights about the elites have been spot on. Too bad Bret Stephens doesn't appear to read her columns. They describe him to a T.
His angry rant about how Trump supporters glorify stupidity could have appeared on the op-ed page of the NY Times.
Noonan says the elites will never pay for the decisions they make. They haven't and think they never will - but is it so improbable to imagine, say, a Syrian "refugee" setting off a bomb on a trendy restaurant on the Upper East Side? Or a muzzie with a semi taking out a few globalists barreling down the street Nice style? (Note that I am not hoping for those scenarios, just saying they are possible.)
They might imagine armed guards and gated communities will keep them safe. Perhaps - if they never ever venture past the gates. They do.
His angry rant about how Trump supporters glorify stupidity could have appeared on the op-ed page of the NY Times.
Noonan says the elites will never pay for the decisions they make. They haven't and think they never will - but is it so improbable to imagine, say, a Syrian "refugee" setting off a bomb on a trendy restaurant on the Upper East Side? Or a muzzie with a semi taking out a few globalists barreling down the street Nice style? (Note that I am not hoping for those scenarios, just saying they are possible.)
They might imagine armed guards and gated communities will keep them safe. Perhaps - if they never ever venture past the gates. They do.
Posted by: Donna and V. (sans ampersands at the present time) at August 12, 2016 05:16 PM (u0lmX)
301
I think the globalists and "progressives" are actually trying to re-create a medieval feudal social structure
--
No question in my mind. Neo-feudalism is the new black.
--
No question in my mind. Neo-feudalism is the new black.
Posted by: Vashta Nerada at August 12, 2016 05:17 PM (7ZVPa)
302
295 Posted by: J.J. Sefton at August 12, 2016 05:13 PM (9P3OG)
46 million sounds even worse when you state it as a percentage. That's 15% of the population !
Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck at August 12, 2016 05:15 PM (+P27u)
And I heard someone say that maybe close to a year ago now.
The government is the equivalent of Sportin' Life.
46 million sounds even worse when you state it as a percentage. That's 15% of the population !
Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck at August 12, 2016 05:15 PM (+P27u)
And I heard someone say that maybe close to a year ago now.
The government is the equivalent of Sportin' Life.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at August 12, 2016 05:17 PM (9P3OG)
303
ALL: There is an undercurrent that the pressholes are missing or ignoring to prop up the corrupt harridan.
What say the women and homosexuals that watch "Real Wives of New Jersey"? Well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41npU4U3sT8
What say the women and homosexuals that watch "Real Wives of New Jersey"? Well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41npU4U3sT8
Posted by: oddknot still frets at August 12, 2016 05:17 PM (g1MTt)
304
Posted by: chemjeff at August 12, 2016 05:08 PM (uAvJJ)
You are confusing me with someone who respects the "human dignity" of others as much as he respects the "human dignity" of his tribe.
And your continual conflating of immigrant with illegal immigrant is getting tedious.
Here is my short answer:
1. Illegal immigrants are criminals and should be deported in the cheapest and quickest way possible.
2. Immigrants are by definition legal, and should be afforded all the respect that they deserve as Americans-in-training. But they have no right to become immigrants. That is our decision, and our decision alone.
3. But American citizens are my tribe, and I will always place them above everyone else in the hierarchy.
You are confusing me with someone who respects the "human dignity" of others as much as he respects the "human dignity" of his tribe.
And your continual conflating of immigrant with illegal immigrant is getting tedious.
Here is my short answer:
1. Illegal immigrants are criminals and should be deported in the cheapest and quickest way possible.
2. Immigrants are by definition legal, and should be afforded all the respect that they deserve as Americans-in-training. But they have no right to become immigrants. That is our decision, and our decision alone.
3. But American citizens are my tribe, and I will always place them above everyone else in the hierarchy.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at August 12, 2016 05:17 PM (Zu3d9)
305
>>The next time I see a panhandler in NYC I might go off on him.
I once saw a guy lose it on a panhandler in Tucson.
Made him return $5 to an old lady and then beat the guy sensless with a bottle of Snapple.
It was quite a scene.
I once saw a guy lose it on a panhandler in Tucson.
Made him return $5 to an old lady and then beat the guy sensless with a bottle of Snapple.
It was quite a scene.
Posted by: garrett at August 12, 2016 05:17 PM (c1srJ)
306
Why did nobody tell me that baking bacon in the oven is the best way to cook it? I've wasted so many years.
Posted by: JackStraw at August 12, 2016 05:18 PM (/tuJf)
307
The use of the widely recognized phrase "crony capitalism" no more implies that capitalism is bad than the use of the phrase "drunk driving" implies that driving is bad.
Posted by: torquewrench at August 12, 2016 05:18 PM (noWW6)
308
Again, the assumption that all immigrants come here for welfare and healthcare.
Posted by: Sexypig at August 12, 2016 05:09 PM (UBBWX)
*****
We don't have the immigration policies of the past where we sought out high skilled workers in fields of work where we were lacking. We have a small minority that fall into that category anymore. It is simply true that we have replaced that immigration policy for one that refuses to discriminate on who we let into this country and, even worse, prefer to let in people from their world countries and the M.E. now to redress some fucked up guilt that bc we are a wealthy country we robbed the rest of the world somehow and have to open our borders to anyone who wants to come here
Posted by: Sexypig at August 12, 2016 05:09 PM (UBBWX)
*****
We don't have the immigration policies of the past where we sought out high skilled workers in fields of work where we were lacking. We have a small minority that fall into that category anymore. It is simply true that we have replaced that immigration policy for one that refuses to discriminate on who we let into this country and, even worse, prefer to let in people from their world countries and the M.E. now to redress some fucked up guilt that bc we are a wealthy country we robbed the rest of the world somehow and have to open our borders to anyone who wants to come here
Posted by: L, Elle who is patiently waiting for her I Got Banned by Maetenloch t-shirt at August 12, 2016 05:18 PM (6IPEM)
309
I want to go to some shithole country and be treated as poorly as we treat immigrants here.
Posted by: nckate at August 12, 2016 05:18 PM (968UG)
310
I do wish everyone would quit using that term "crony capitalism". First off it was invented by the liberals to somehow tar capitalism as a corrupt process.
--
You are correct, the proper term is crony socialism, which accurately depicts what is happening.
--
You are correct, the proper term is crony socialism, which accurately depicts what is happening.
Posted by: Vashta Nerada at August 12, 2016 05:19 PM (7ZVPa)
311
Posted by: Tinfoilbaby at August 12, 2016 05:13 PM (6Ll1u)
The Lockheed developers of the SR-71 also copied Orville Wright. Frauds!!
The Lockheed developers of the SR-71 also copied Orville Wright. Frauds!!
Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck at August 12, 2016 05:19 PM (+P27u)
312
The American corporation deserves a leg up for a "level playing field," and the American worker can, what exactly? Posted by: ace at August 12, 2016 04:56 PM (dciA+)
I'm guessing you left out the word 'expect'?
As in 'the American worker can expect what from a level playing field? '
I'll assume that.
The American worker can expect that his employer is not saddled with 100, 000 pages of regulation while Chen's employer - his counterpart In china Is not. The American worker has a reasonable expectation of continued employment. The American worker has a nine to five job, M - F. Not 'flexible' shifts sometimes working every day for weeks.The American worker can supplement his income by working weekends if he wishes. The American worker gets the same workplace protections and education as his foreign counterparts.
I don't know. It seems level playing fields are obvious. Maybe in this current world they're an anachronism. Sad that.
I'm guessing you left out the word 'expect'?
As in 'the American worker can expect what from a level playing field? '
I'll assume that.
The American worker can expect that his employer is not saddled with 100, 000 pages of regulation while Chen's employer - his counterpart In china Is not. The American worker has a reasonable expectation of continued employment. The American worker has a nine to five job, M - F. Not 'flexible' shifts sometimes working every day for weeks.The American worker can supplement his income by working weekends if he wishes. The American worker gets the same workplace protections and education as his foreign counterparts.
I don't know. It seems level playing fields are obvious. Maybe in this current world they're an anachronism. Sad that.
Posted by: free range 'sorta' conservative but not 'true' conservative at August 12, 2016 05:19 PM (ZnIt3)
313
The population of the Western world is mostly just surplus (and highly expensive) labor. We're just figuring out that our leaders neither want, nor need us. The good news: we all have a future in biofuels, so yay, environment!
Posted by: FaCubeItches at August 12, 2016 05:19 PM (rznWS)
314
"But "all immigrants" includes people like my doctor. I doubt he immigrated here to stiff an ER."
Well that gets into the whole H-1B cluster-eff.
Become an engineer, they said.
You'll make great money, they said.
I'd like you to train Achmed to replace you, they said.
Well that gets into the whole H-1B cluster-eff.
Become an engineer, they said.
You'll make great money, they said.
I'd like you to train Achmed to replace you, they said.
Posted by: Lauren at August 12, 2016 05:19 PM (hW3u1)
315
"Again, the assumption that all immigrants come here for welfare and healthcare. "
Good thing I've got the numbers pulled up already!
Texas spends 12.1 Billion annually on illegal immigrants and their children.
---------
The argument I am attacking is the claim that all immigrants come here for welfare.
You bring up illegals only.
Was this a mistake or do you believe illegals and legals are the same?
Good thing I've got the numbers pulled up already!
Texas spends 12.1 Billion annually on illegal immigrants and their children.
---------
The argument I am attacking is the claim that all immigrants come here for welfare.
You bring up illegals only.
Was this a mistake or do you believe illegals and legals are the same?
Posted by: Sexypig at August 12, 2016 05:19 PM (UBBWX)
316
1. Illegal immigrants are criminals and should be deported in the cheapest and quickest way possible.
after a year at hard labor.
after a year at hard labor.
Posted by: Grump928(c) says Free Soothie! at August 12, 2016 05:19 PM (evdj2)
317
290 Wait, isn't Peggy Noonan one of those "conservative commentators" that voted for TFG? Twice, if I remember correctly?
She didn't in 2012.
And I am not sure I get the argument that a person who screws up once becomes a pariah for life and should never be taken seriously on any subject.
She didn't in 2012.
And I am not sure I get the argument that a person who screws up once becomes a pariah for life and should never be taken seriously on any subject.
Posted by: Donna and V. (sans ampersands at the present time) at August 12, 2016 05:20 PM (u0lmX)
318
Kevin Williamson..."
Posted by: Emmett Milbarge at August 12, 2016 04:38 PM (nFdGS)
The sad and embarrassing thing about Williamson is that there was a solid market economics point to be made, but he was so overwhelmed by the emotion of his disdain for small-town America that he failed to make it, and instead managed to piss off most of his conservative, free-market readers.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at August 12, 2016 04:41 PM (Zu3d9)
He's "small town" himself and appears to be doing everything he can to show how much "better" he is than where he is from. Self-hate is the nastiest kind.
Posted by: Emmett Milbarge at August 12, 2016 04:38 PM (nFdGS)
The sad and embarrassing thing about Williamson is that there was a solid market economics point to be made, but he was so overwhelmed by the emotion of his disdain for small-town America that he failed to make it, and instead managed to piss off most of his conservative, free-market readers.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at August 12, 2016 04:41 PM (Zu3d9)
He's "small town" himself and appears to be doing everything he can to show how much "better" he is than where he is from. Self-hate is the nastiest kind.
Posted by: dagny at August 12, 2016 05:20 PM (eSQgj)
319
305
It was quite a scene.
Posted by: garrett at August 12, 2016 05:17 PM (c1srJ)
He "snappled?"
Seriously, I live in the biggest welfare city in a nation that is now a welfare nation. And these people have the unmitigated temerity to ask for a dollar?! You mean, you can't shift your lazy ass enough to even jump the subway turnstile to ride downtown to the welfare office and sign up?!
Rage enducing, that is.
It was quite a scene.
Posted by: garrett at August 12, 2016 05:17 PM (c1srJ)
He "snappled?"
Seriously, I live in the biggest welfare city in a nation that is now a welfare nation. And these people have the unmitigated temerity to ask for a dollar?! You mean, you can't shift your lazy ass enough to even jump the subway turnstile to ride downtown to the welfare office and sign up?!
Rage enducing, that is.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at August 12, 2016 05:20 PM (9P3OG)
320
Someone's using the ERs!
Posted by: Donald Trump's Forehead Merkin at August 12, 2016 05:12 PM (c1srJ)
And spray painting their graffiteh all over our American walls!
Posted by: Donald Trump's Forehead Merkin at August 12, 2016 05:12 PM (c1srJ)
And spray painting their graffiteh all over our American walls!
Posted by: BurtTC at August 12, 2016 05:20 PM (TOk1P)
321
"Well that gets into the whole H-1B cluster-eff.
Become an engineer, they said.
You'll make great money, they said.
I'd like you to train Achmed to replace you, they said."
So, Lauren, are you against all immigration?
Become an engineer, they said.
You'll make great money, they said.
I'd like you to train Achmed to replace you, they said."
So, Lauren, are you against all immigration?
Posted by: Sexypig at August 12, 2016 05:20 PM (UBBWX)
322
I haven't hurried to post. I wanted to think about what I want to say.
First off, I really appreciate what Noonan wrote. My opinion of her went up.
Secondly, this is for you Ace. Your post is thoughtful and astute. Though I suspect praise isn't something you crave, I want to say you do some of the very best Conservative, depth analysis of the country that can be found anywhere.
I really appreciate your effort.
People, some of them anyway, wonder why the working class feels alienated from the Government.
Read the post above, and if they were honest, the answers are there.
I am going to stop with this - for a number of years, I have felt like I live in an occupied country, occupied by enemies.
I believe I have no input into my governance, And I believe that the government does not have my interests at heart.
I read Ace's post, and it helps clarify for me why, also, how we got where we are at.
First off, I really appreciate what Noonan wrote. My opinion of her went up.
Secondly, this is for you Ace. Your post is thoughtful and astute. Though I suspect praise isn't something you crave, I want to say you do some of the very best Conservative, depth analysis of the country that can be found anywhere.
I really appreciate your effort.
People, some of them anyway, wonder why the working class feels alienated from the Government.
Read the post above, and if they were honest, the answers are there.
I am going to stop with this - for a number of years, I have felt like I live in an occupied country, occupied by enemies.
I believe I have no input into my governance, And I believe that the government does not have my interests at heart.
I read Ace's post, and it helps clarify for me why, also, how we got where we are at.
Posted by: tubal at August 12, 2016 05:20 PM (d6TTt)
323
Nope. He's wrong and so are you ... big surprise, right?
Reagan later said he regretted signing the '86 amnesty because Congress did not carry out the promised enforcment provision because, Get this , they lied.
Oh, and that 'one-time-only' deal? Yeah, back again in '90 for another round of promises that wasn't kept.
And then again in '96 another 'one-time-only' amnesty attemp that was stopped.
Oh, again in 2006.
Odd how regular this is becoming.
The only response to an institution that has promised repeatedly to stop unmetered immigration only to turn around and drop them altogether is Fuck you.
Posted by: weft cut-loop at August 12, 2016 05:13 PM (9sySV)
______
Im sorry, but this "Reagan regretted it"-nonsense is simply a conservative comments section fairy tale.
http://dailycaller.com/2013/07/16/internet-myth-ronald-reagan-regretted-legalization/
Also: those responsible for the 80s amnesty cannot possibly give guarantees for what politicians would do 3 decades later. This should be obvious to any adult.
Reagan later said he regretted signing the '86 amnesty because Congress did not carry out the promised enforcment provision because, Get this , they lied.
Oh, and that 'one-time-only' deal? Yeah, back again in '90 for another round of promises that wasn't kept.
And then again in '96 another 'one-time-only' amnesty attemp that was stopped.
Oh, again in 2006.
Odd how regular this is becoming.
The only response to an institution that has promised repeatedly to stop unmetered immigration only to turn around and drop them altogether is Fuck you.
Posted by: weft cut-loop at August 12, 2016 05:13 PM (9sySV)
______
Im sorry, but this "Reagan regretted it"-nonsense is simply a conservative comments section fairy tale.
http://dailycaller.com/2013/07/16/internet-myth-ronald-reagan-regretted-legalization/
Also: those responsible for the 80s amnesty cannot possibly give guarantees for what politicians would do 3 decades later. This should be obvious to any adult.
Posted by: Begonia at August 12, 2016 05:20 PM (jb74g)
324
The argument I am attacking is the claim that all immigrants come here for welfare.
Are you actually so dense that you don't know what was meant? Or are you just another contrarian autobot?
Are you actually so dense that you don't know what was meant? Or are you just another contrarian autobot?
Posted by: Grump928(c) says Free Soothie! at August 12, 2016 05:21 PM (evdj2)
325
Posted by: Tinfoilbaby at August 12, 2016 05:13 PM (6Ll1u)
What about conning the shareholders of one of your companies to buy one of your other companies before it fails in order to distract the shareholders of the first company that you're not even going to come close to next year's production target? You gonna tell me someone invented THAT?
What about conning the shareholders of one of your companies to buy one of your other companies before it fails in order to distract the shareholders of the first company that you're not even going to come close to next year's production target? You gonna tell me someone invented THAT?
Posted by: Emmett Milbarge at August 12, 2016 05:21 PM (nFdGS)
326
307
The use of the widely recognized phrase "crony capitalism" no more
implies that capitalism is bad than the use of the phrase "drunk
driving" implies that driving is bad.
Posted by: torquewrench at August 12, 2016 05:18 PM (noWW6)
Other than the fact that it has absolutely nothing to do with capitalism and it was invented by the socialists.
The use of the widely recognized phrase "crony capitalism" no more
implies that capitalism is bad than the use of the phrase "drunk
driving" implies that driving is bad.
Posted by: torquewrench at August 12, 2016 05:18 PM (noWW6)
Other than the fact that it has absolutely nothing to do with capitalism and it was invented by the socialists.
Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at August 12, 2016 05:21 PM (mpXpK)
327
'Seriously, I live in the biggest welfare city in a nation that is now a welfare nation. And these people have the unmitigated temerity to ask for a dollar?! You mean, you can't shift your lazy ass enough to even jump the subway turnstile to ride downtown to the welfare office and sign up?!'
They want additional funds for drugs or booze.
My city has some damn well-fed looking beggars. Obese beggars!
They want additional funds for drugs or booze.
My city has some damn well-fed looking beggars. Obese beggars!
Posted by: Sexypig at August 12, 2016 05:21 PM (UBBWX)
328
"Again, the assumption that all immigrants come here for welfare and healthcare."
Been in a California emergency room lately?
I would bet that the native-to-immigrant ratio is below 20 per cent around here.
Been in a California emergency room lately?
I would bet that the native-to-immigrant ratio is below 20 per cent around here.
Posted by: torquewrench at August 12, 2016 05:21 PM (noWW6)
329
Im sorry, but this "Reagan regretted it"-nonsense is simply a conservative comments section fairy tale.
Then he was wrong start to finish.
Then he was wrong start to finish.
Posted by: Grump928(c) says Free Soothie! at August 12, 2016 05:21 PM (evdj2)
Posted by: Cactus of Liberty at August 12, 2016 05:21 PM (yhYmR)
331
"Someone above mentioned the 2008 bailouts. That was the tipping point in my mind."
Many big financials should have failed. e.g. Lloyd Blankfein should have been left with only a barrel to wear. But the price of the bailout was that banking sector was left unduly concentrated, and the big banks that were left have been co-opted by Big Gov.
Many big financials should have failed. e.g. Lloyd Blankfein should have been left with only a barrel to wear. But the price of the bailout was that banking sector was left unduly concentrated, and the big banks that were left have been co-opted by Big Gov.
Posted by: Ignoramus at August 12, 2016 05:22 PM (r1fLd)
Posted by: Grump928(c) says Free Soothie! at August 12, 2016 05:22 PM (evdj2)
333
That is probably true, but it is just as true of the
population as a whole. The average American of the 18th century was way
more disciplined and in control of his life than Americans are today.
Taking the current state of society into account, I guess one must
conclude that there is a greater need for leadership from our elites
today than back then.
To exercise ones militant aversion against this can only be counter productive.
Posted by: Begonia at August 12, 2016 05:08 PM (jb74g)
The discipline came from personal self reliance, not guidance from betters. If anything the American Revolution was a rejection of "leadership of the elites" that so enamors you .
population as a whole. The average American of the 18th century was way
more disciplined and in control of his life than Americans are today.
Taking the current state of society into account, I guess one must
conclude that there is a greater need for leadership from our elites
today than back then.
To exercise ones militant aversion against this can only be counter productive.
Posted by: Begonia at August 12, 2016 05:08 PM (jb74g)
The discipline came from personal self reliance, not guidance from betters. If anything the American Revolution was a rejection of "leadership of the elites" that so enamors you .
Posted by: runner at August 12, 2016 05:23 PM (c6/9Q)
334
It may 'tar' capitalism but it's not crony socialism .
Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck at August 12, 2016 05:23 PM (+P27u)
335
I would bet that the native-to-immigrant ratio is below 20 per cent around here.
Posted by: torquewrench at August 12, 2016 05:21 PM (noWW6)
Ditto DC metro. Same at the DMV.
Posted by: torquewrench at August 12, 2016 05:21 PM (noWW6)
Ditto DC metro. Same at the DMV.
Posted by: dagny at August 12, 2016 05:23 PM (eSQgj)
336
Ace has been great, and he really needs to take the rest of the day off.
*dares anyone to one-up me*
*dares anyone to one-up me*
Posted by: Jane D'oh at August 12, 2016 05:23 PM (1ZOkK)
337
Those like Merkel and our own president want the benefits attached to a strong nation-state without the hard work and dedication it takes to maintain it.
In fact, they seek to destroy any positive value attached to a nation-state. And they attempt to use the politics of guilt and pity to coerce their citizens into going along with it.
In fact, they seek to destroy any positive value attached to a nation-state. And they attempt to use the politics of guilt and pity to coerce their citizens into going along with it.
Posted by: Seamus Muldoon at August 12, 2016 05:23 PM (wPiJc)
338
I think the 5th pretty much covers anyone. The founders knew the difference between a person and a citizen. But hey, the 1st technically only prohibits Congress.
Posted by: SH at August 12, 2016 05:06 PM (gmeXX)
I think it's pretty clear that it doesn't. An alien who refused to give self-incriminating testimony could just be ejected from the country. We don't need to have any Constitutional cause to throw an alien out.
Now, there is legislation that infringes on that action but that is just what I said above - privileges extended to aliens, not rights that they hold in our nation.
Posted by: SH at August 12, 2016 05:06 PM (gmeXX)
I think it's pretty clear that it doesn't. An alien who refused to give self-incriminating testimony could just be ejected from the country. We don't need to have any Constitutional cause to throw an alien out.
Now, there is legislation that infringes on that action but that is just what I said above - privileges extended to aliens, not rights that they hold in our nation.
Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at August 12, 2016 05:24 PM (zc3Db)
339
And your continual conflating of immigrant with illegal immigrant is getting tedious.
__________________
That was part of the left's plan when they began demanding that illegal aliens be referred to as "undocumented immigrants."
Once they've insinuated that into the national lexicon, then they can smear anybody opposed to policies favoring illegal aliens as "anti immigrant."
That's why I call them illegal aliens. That's what they are. They are not "immigrants" and most of them have backpacks full of fraudulent identity documents, so they're not "undocumented" either.
__________________
That was part of the left's plan when they began demanding that illegal aliens be referred to as "undocumented immigrants."
Once they've insinuated that into the national lexicon, then they can smear anybody opposed to policies favoring illegal aliens as "anti immigrant."
That's why I call them illegal aliens. That's what they are. They are not "immigrants" and most of them have backpacks full of fraudulent identity documents, so they're not "undocumented" either.
Posted by: TrivialPursuer at August 12, 2016 05:24 PM (NnYnv)
340
Ace has been great, and he really needs to take the rest of the day off.
*dares anyone to one-up me*
and enjoy some expensive imported cheese.
*stares*
*dares anyone to one-up me*
and enjoy some expensive imported cheese.
*stares*
Posted by: Grump928(c) says Free Soothie! at August 12, 2016 05:24 PM (evdj2)
341
"...not a single person in finance has gone to prison..."
Posted by: Brian in New Orleans at August 12, 2016 05:10 PM (UBzPO)
For what? Being smarter than the regulators?
For trying to mitigate the huge damage that congressional action had done to the mortgage industry?
This is anti-free-market, populist nonsense.
Posted by: Brian in New Orleans at August 12, 2016 05:10 PM (UBzPO)
For what? Being smarter than the regulators?
For trying to mitigate the huge damage that congressional action had done to the mortgage industry?
This is anti-free-market, populist nonsense.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at August 12, 2016 05:24 PM (Zu3d9)
Posted by: garrett at August 12, 2016 05:24 PM (c1srJ)
343
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at August 12, 2016 05:17 PM (Zu3d9)
You might as well argue with a wall. He's dishonest. Won't tell you his age, won't tell you the situation he's in that causes him to have the perceptions he has.
Save yourself the carpal tunnel. Send the ip addy -> pixy '&' storage address.
You might as well argue with a wall. He's dishonest. Won't tell you his age, won't tell you the situation he's in that causes him to have the perceptions he has.
Save yourself the carpal tunnel. Send the ip addy -> pixy '&' storage address.
Posted by: free range 'sorta' conservative but not 'true' conservative at August 12, 2016 05:24 PM (ZnIt3)
344
"So, Lauren, are you against all immigration? "
I am for incredibly strict laws on immigration with American -first hiring restrictions.
If the only guy you can find to build your sprocket is from Lithuania, ok sure he can come over.
But if you have 47 qualified American workers but you want the guy from India because our ridiculous tax and immigration codes have incentivized that? Nope. That's a problem.
And let's not even get into the fact that wealthy foreigners can essentially buy citizenship
I am for incredibly strict laws on immigration with American -first hiring restrictions.
If the only guy you can find to build your sprocket is from Lithuania, ok sure he can come over.
But if you have 47 qualified American workers but you want the guy from India because our ridiculous tax and immigration codes have incentivized that? Nope. That's a problem.
And let's not even get into the fact that wealthy foreigners can essentially buy citizenship
Posted by: Lauren at August 12, 2016 05:25 PM (hW3u1)
345
Are you actually so dense that you don't know what was meant? Or are you just another contrarian autobot?
Posted by: Grump928(c) says Free Soothie! at August 12, 2016 05:21 PM (evdj2)
There are times when I enjoy ribbing the nitwits who show up here, and then there are some who, because of their inability to even notice they are not being taken seriously, that it takes all the fun of it out for me.
Posted by: Grump928(c) says Free Soothie! at August 12, 2016 05:21 PM (evdj2)
There are times when I enjoy ribbing the nitwits who show up here, and then there are some who, because of their inability to even notice they are not being taken seriously, that it takes all the fun of it out for me.
Posted by: BurtTC at August 12, 2016 05:25 PM (TOk1P)
346
If you specified "illegal immigrants" or even "poor immigrants" I would say that is maybe an issue.
But "all immigrants" includes people like my doctor. I doubt he immigrated here to stiff an ER.
Posted by: Sexypig
See, this is where your mistake is made. You assume the posters here are against immigrants. Very few, if any are against immigrants. Most everyone here is against ILLEGAL immigrants.
You know. Like the one that shotgunned kate steinle.
But "all immigrants" includes people like my doctor. I doubt he immigrated here to stiff an ER.
Posted by: Sexypig
See, this is where your mistake is made. You assume the posters here are against immigrants. Very few, if any are against immigrants. Most everyone here is against ILLEGAL immigrants.
You know. Like the one that shotgunned kate steinle.
Posted by: rickb223 TEXIT at August 12, 2016 05:25 PM (UYkjZ)
347
You are confusing me with someone who respects the "human dignity"
of others as much as he respects the "human dignity" of his tribe.
Then we must agree to disagree. Every human being has a certain level of innate human dignity that ought to be respected. Note that respect for human dignity is not necessarily equivalent to "instant citizenship" or "a right to stay" or "free welfare forever" or stuff like that.
1. Illegal immigrants are criminals and should be deported in the cheapest and quickest way possible.
2.
Immigrants are by definition legal, and should be afforded all the
respect that they deserve as Americans-in-training. But they have no
right to become immigrants. That is our decision, and our decision
alone.
3. But American citizens are my tribe, and I will always place them above everyone else in the hierarchy.
I agree with this, except for two points:
1. Illegals should be deported, as long as the methods and practices used don't interfere with the already existing liberties of citizens already here.
2. Your use of the word "always" in item 3. If it were qualified with "all else equal", then I would agree.
Do you find these two addenda objectionable?
You are confusing me with someone who respects the "human dignity"
of others as much as he respects the "human dignity" of his tribe.
Then we must agree to disagree. Every human being has a certain level of innate human dignity that ought to be respected. Note that respect for human dignity is not necessarily equivalent to "instant citizenship" or "a right to stay" or "free welfare forever" or stuff like that.
1. Illegal immigrants are criminals and should be deported in the cheapest and quickest way possible.
2.
Immigrants are by definition legal, and should be afforded all the
respect that they deserve as Americans-in-training. But they have no
right to become immigrants. That is our decision, and our decision
alone.
3. But American citizens are my tribe, and I will always place them above everyone else in the hierarchy.
I agree with this, except for two points:
1. Illegals should be deported, as long as the methods and practices used don't interfere with the already existing liberties of citizens already here.
2. Your use of the word "always" in item 3. If it were qualified with "all else equal", then I would agree.
Do you find these two addenda objectionable?
Posted by: chemjeff at August 12, 2016 05:25 PM (uAvJJ)
348
"Kevin Williamson at NRO is a particulatly loathsome proponent of the transnational progressive perspective.
Posted by: Krebs v Carnot: Epic Battle of the Cycling Stars (TM) at August 12, 2016 04:15 PM (BK3ZS)"
Williamson is a veritable fountain of sympathy for inner city white folk on oxycontin and inner city black folk on crack. But when it comes to rural and suburban folks displaced by the manufacturing exodus his message is, "Fuck you poorz! Get yourself more marketable skills!"
Posted by: Krebs v Carnot: Epic Battle of the Cycling Stars (TM) at August 12, 2016 04:15 PM (BK3ZS)"
Williamson is a veritable fountain of sympathy for inner city white folk on oxycontin and inner city black folk on crack. But when it comes to rural and suburban folks displaced by the manufacturing exodus his message is, "Fuck you poorz! Get yourself more marketable skills!"
Posted by: Lamont Cranston at August 12, 2016 05:25 PM (Rtyzj)
349
340
Ace has been great, and he really needs to take the rest of the day off.
*dares anyone to one-up me*
and enjoy some expensive imported cheese.
*stares*
Posted by: Grump928(c) says Free Soothie! at August 12, 2016 05:24 PM (evdj2)
And a nice, big steak.
*stares back*
Ace has been great, and he really needs to take the rest of the day off.
*dares anyone to one-up me*
and enjoy some expensive imported cheese.
*stares*
Posted by: Grump928(c) says Free Soothie! at August 12, 2016 05:24 PM (evdj2)
And a nice, big steak.
*stares back*
Posted by: Jane D'oh at August 12, 2016 05:25 PM (1ZOkK)
350
336 Ace has been great, and he really needs to take the rest of the day off.
*dares anyone to one-up me*
Posted by: Jane D'oh at August 12, 2016 05:23 PM (1ZOkK)
He has been great. He should take the rest of the week off. And he doesn't need to clock back in until around 3pm Monday.
*dares anyone to one-up me*
Posted by: Jane D'oh at August 12, 2016 05:23 PM (1ZOkK)
He has been great. He should take the rest of the week off. And he doesn't need to clock back in until around 3pm Monday.
Posted by: buzzion at August 12, 2016 05:25 PM (z/Ubi)
351
They want additional funds for drugs or booze.
My city has some damn well-fed looking beggars. Obese beggars!
Posted by: Sexypig at August 12, 2016 05:21 PM (UBBWX)
Here in Tulsa, one fat guy sits there in a folding chair in a shirt that has obviously been done at the laundry, chatting away on his smart phone. I think he does it to be able to make his car payment after being laid off--because he's only there a few days a month. There is a large library close by where he can park his car, use the facilities, etc.
My city has some damn well-fed looking beggars. Obese beggars!
Posted by: Sexypig at August 12, 2016 05:21 PM (UBBWX)
Here in Tulsa, one fat guy sits there in a folding chair in a shirt that has obviously been done at the laundry, chatting away on his smart phone. I think he does it to be able to make his car payment after being laid off--because he's only there a few days a month. There is a large library close by where he can park his car, use the facilities, etc.
Posted by: Sherry McEvil, Stiletto Corsettes Ima going long on popcorn and butter futures!! at August 12, 2016 05:25 PM (kXoT0)
352
>> Ace has been great, and he really needs to take the rest of the day off.
*dares anyone to one-up me*
Don't make me punch the tip!...jar.
*dares anyone to one-up me*
Don't make me punch the tip!...jar.
Posted by: garrett at August 12, 2016 05:26 PM (c1srJ)
353
Wasn't the very term "capitalism" invented by the socialists?
Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at August 12, 2016 05:26 PM (IqV8l)
Posted by: Shep Smith at August 12, 2016 05:26 PM (c1srJ)
355
>> Elon Musk sucks off the government teat unlike the
>> true visionaries of the past.
I worked for Elon Musk almost twenty years ago. He's a bright guy. Maybe not as bright as he thinks he is, but that well of self-confidence (and some money from mommy's friends) got him to where he is.
He's got three real plays right now: SpaceX, Tesla, and SolarCity.
SpaceX is his baby. It's the only one he really started on his own. It's where his early-days employees went. And it's no more a warden of the state than is Boeing/Lockheed/ULA/all the rest of the government contractors. They're doing good work cheaper than the other guys and the fact that their customers are government is just a function of who buys space launches.
Tesla he bought into because he's a nerd and just a bit of a gearhead: his daily driver when I met him was a decent Jag E-type. He isn't a founder, no matter what it says on their website; he just threw tons of money at them. And he plays the game by the rules. He didn't get anything out of the state or federal governments that anyone else wouldn't have gotten if they'd asked. As I said before, he's a self-centered bugger, and he asked, and the state caved. Still, he isn't building his battery plant in California, and he'll eventually put another car plant somewhere else if the company lasts long enough.
He's in SolarCity because the founders are (as he is) simpatico South Africans. The Tesla/SolarCity thing is baffling to me; his hubris may have overstepped sanity with that one.
>> true visionaries of the past.
I worked for Elon Musk almost twenty years ago. He's a bright guy. Maybe not as bright as he thinks he is, but that well of self-confidence (and some money from mommy's friends) got him to where he is.
He's got three real plays right now: SpaceX, Tesla, and SolarCity.
SpaceX is his baby. It's the only one he really started on his own. It's where his early-days employees went. And it's no more a warden of the state than is Boeing/Lockheed/ULA/all the rest of the government contractors. They're doing good work cheaper than the other guys and the fact that their customers are government is just a function of who buys space launches.
Tesla he bought into because he's a nerd and just a bit of a gearhead: his daily driver when I met him was a decent Jag E-type. He isn't a founder, no matter what it says on their website; he just threw tons of money at them. And he plays the game by the rules. He didn't get anything out of the state or federal governments that anyone else wouldn't have gotten if they'd asked. As I said before, he's a self-centered bugger, and he asked, and the state caved. Still, he isn't building his battery plant in California, and he'll eventually put another car plant somewhere else if the company lasts long enough.
He's in SolarCity because the founders are (as he is) simpatico South Africans. The Tesla/SolarCity thing is baffling to me; his hubris may have overstepped sanity with that one.
Posted by: JEM at August 12, 2016 05:26 PM (o+SC1)
356
And he should get to spend it with Hope Solo.
Posted by: buzzion at August 12, 2016 05:27 PM (z/Ubi)
357
Was this a mistake or do you believe illegals and legals are the same?
Posted by: Sexypig at August 12, 2016 05:19 PM (UBBWX)
*****
What the hell is wrong with you? Everyone here is talking about illegals. Did that really escape you? Maybe you're just playing dumb or are just slow.
Posted by: Sexypig at August 12, 2016 05:19 PM (UBBWX)
*****
What the hell is wrong with you? Everyone here is talking about illegals. Did that really escape you? Maybe you're just playing dumb or are just slow.
Posted by: L, Elle who is patiently waiting for her I Got Banned by Maetenloch t-shirt at August 12, 2016 05:27 PM (6IPEM)
358
I think it's pretty clear that it doesn't. An alien who refused to give self-incriminating testimony could just be ejected from the country.
------------
But that doesn't change the amendment.
------------
But that doesn't change the amendment.
Posted by: SH at August 12, 2016 05:27 PM (gmeXX)
Posted by: Bossy Conservative....outlaw in America at August 12, 2016 05:27 PM (S6Pax)
360
327
'Seriously, I live in the biggest welfare city in a nation that is now a
welfare nation. And these people have the unmitigated temerity to ask
for a dollar?! You mean, you can't shift your lazy ass enough to even
jump the subway turnstile to ride downtown to the welfare office and
sign up?!'
They want additional funds for drugs or booze.
My city has some damn well-fed looking beggars. Obese beggars!
Posted by: Sexypig at August 12, 2016 05:21 PM (UBBWX)
That isn't fair. The welfare dole is distributed very unevenly. If you're young and male you won't get one red cent, and if you're a young white male, there will probably be some effort made to shame you for even trying, but if your female and pregnant, well then the checks and benefits begin to flow like a soft gentle rain on a lovely summer evening.
'Seriously, I live in the biggest welfare city in a nation that is now a
welfare nation. And these people have the unmitigated temerity to ask
for a dollar?! You mean, you can't shift your lazy ass enough to even
jump the subway turnstile to ride downtown to the welfare office and
sign up?!'
They want additional funds for drugs or booze.
My city has some damn well-fed looking beggars. Obese beggars!
Posted by: Sexypig at August 12, 2016 05:21 PM (UBBWX)
That isn't fair. The welfare dole is distributed very unevenly. If you're young and male you won't get one red cent, and if you're a young white male, there will probably be some effort made to shame you for even trying, but if your female and pregnant, well then the checks and benefits begin to flow like a soft gentle rain on a lovely summer evening.
Posted by: DFCtomm at August 12, 2016 05:28 PM (4PEWr)
361
And yes, almost half of all legal immigrants are also on welfare.
Let me google that for you:
"An estimated 49 percent of households headed by legal immigrants used one or more welfare programs in 2012, compared to 30 percent of households headed by natives.
Households headed by legal immigrants have higher use rates than native households overall and for cash programs (14 percent vs. 10 percent), food programs (36 percent vs. 22 percent), and Medicaid (39 percent vs. 23 percent). Use of housing programs is similar."
Let me google that for you:
"An estimated 49 percent of households headed by legal immigrants used one or more welfare programs in 2012, compared to 30 percent of households headed by natives.
Households headed by legal immigrants have higher use rates than native households overall and for cash programs (14 percent vs. 10 percent), food programs (36 percent vs. 22 percent), and Medicaid (39 percent vs. 23 percent). Use of housing programs is similar."
Posted by: Lauren at August 12, 2016 05:28 PM (hW3u1)
362
Posted by: JEM at August 12, 2016 05:26 PM (o+SC1)
What's the inside scoop on his vision for tube transportation?
What's the inside scoop on his vision for tube transportation?
Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck at August 12, 2016 05:28 PM (+P27u)
363
1.
Illegals should be deported, as long as the methods and practices used
don't interfere with the already existing liberties of citizens already
here.
Posted by: chemjeff at August 12, 2016 05:25 PM (uAvJJ)
You are just trolling, and I am getting a little tired of your game.
Illegals should be deported, as long as the methods and practices used
don't interfere with the already existing liberties of citizens already
here.
Posted by: chemjeff at August 12, 2016 05:25 PM (uAvJJ)
You are just trolling, and I am getting a little tired of your game.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at August 12, 2016 05:28 PM (Zu3d9)
364
No one here is doing anything but pearl clutching.
Everything is all talk and I am OK signaling to my transitory class.
Now that you talkers are being targeted, now the problem.
There are no true snarky refugees. Just sad old irrelevant ghosts, with kids to feed. Where were you all during this fooking war? Sorry, that ship has sailed.
Everything is all talk and I am OK signaling to my transitory class.
Now that you talkers are being targeted, now the problem.
There are no true snarky refugees. Just sad old irrelevant ghosts, with kids to feed. Where were you all during this fooking war? Sorry, that ship has sailed.
Posted by: neal at August 12, 2016 05:29 PM (h3NrB)
365
Would Barky support globalism? Yes. Would Barky forsake is country? Yes, it sucks. I cannot wait for Hillary to take the election and Bill is back in the oval office. Then 8 years later Michelle can become co-president with Barky. At that point the two term president problem will be eliminated and so will the clingers. America sucks but DC is a good place to make a fortune. Good day.
Posted by: Barney F. at August 12, 2016 05:29 PM (FJH98)
366
We won a two front world war with a population of 140 million. We don't need any immigrants at all. A total moratorium for about 25 years is needed to digest the millions we have already taken in.
If there were some foreigner, whose presence here was so vital that we had to bend the policy, let him become a naturalized citizen by specific act of Congress.
Country's Full. Moose out front shoulda told ya.
If there were some foreigner, whose presence here was so vital that we had to bend the policy, let him become a naturalized citizen by specific act of Congress.
Country's Full. Moose out front shoulda told ya.
Posted by: Grump928(c) says Free Soothie! at August 12, 2016 05:29 PM (evdj2)
367
"The big corps actually love big gov and more regs because they can lobby and bribe for advantages."
Yeah. In 1994 the Insurance industry fought Hillary and Bill Clinton's Heathcare bill tooth and nail. In 2010 they fought tooth and nail to get it passed.
Forced customers with the taxpayer picking up the losses.
Yeah. In 1994 the Insurance industry fought Hillary and Bill Clinton's Heathcare bill tooth and nail. In 2010 they fought tooth and nail to get it passed.
Forced customers with the taxpayer picking up the losses.
Posted by: #NeverHillary at August 12, 2016 05:29 PM (/So8Q)
368
Posted by: Lauren at August 12, 2016 05:28 PM (hW3u1)
Call de Amber Lamps-
I think you just shattered her feelz!
Call de Amber Lamps-
I think you just shattered her feelz!
Posted by: garrett at August 12, 2016 05:30 PM (c1srJ)
Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck at August 12, 2016 05:30 PM (+P27u)
370
He may be trolling, but he's a professor, in case he hasn't mentioned it 100 times.
Respect, man.
Respect, man.
Posted by: free range 'sorta' conservative but not 'true' conservative at August 12, 2016 05:30 PM (ZnIt3)
371
I expect people to vote their own interests, or at least what they believe will advance their own interests assuming that most people have imperfect knowledge.
As a middle-class American with disposable income, I see no reason I should vote to "help" the poor in ways that will primarily disadvantage ME while leaving the uber-rich untouched. So when the Democrats agitate for a $15 min wage or Trump agitates for tariffs on cheaply imported consumer goods, what I'm hearing is another plot to lift up the poor by bringing down the middle-class to their level. And I have no idea why anybody would expect me to vote for that out of some sense of patriotic duty to my countrymen.
So IF (and this may not be true, but supposing for now that it is) giving working-class Americans some sort of governmental intervention to help them compete against foreigners allegedly undercutting their wages ends up hurting MY standard of living, I feel no obligation to make that sacrifice.
If either party figures out a way to use government force to help the poor that doesn't simply involve dragging down the middle-class until they are lumped in with the poor in one conveniently-controlled blob of powerless peons, let me know. Ain't seen it yet.
As a middle-class American with disposable income, I see no reason I should vote to "help" the poor in ways that will primarily disadvantage ME while leaving the uber-rich untouched. So when the Democrats agitate for a $15 min wage or Trump agitates for tariffs on cheaply imported consumer goods, what I'm hearing is another plot to lift up the poor by bringing down the middle-class to their level. And I have no idea why anybody would expect me to vote for that out of some sense of patriotic duty to my countrymen.
So IF (and this may not be true, but supposing for now that it is) giving working-class Americans some sort of governmental intervention to help them compete against foreigners allegedly undercutting their wages ends up hurting MY standard of living, I feel no obligation to make that sacrifice.
If either party figures out a way to use government force to help the poor that doesn't simply involve dragging down the middle-class until they are lumped in with the poor in one conveniently-controlled blob of powerless peons, let me know. Ain't seen it yet.
Posted by: cjw at August 12, 2016 05:30 PM (onydf)
372
But that doesn't change the amendment.
Posted by: SH at August 12, 2016 05:27 PM (gmeXX)
If you can be punished for not giving self-incriminating testimony then you do not have any right to not incriminate yourself.
The amendment was written understanding that non-citizens can always be thrown out for any reason, or for none, so the Founders were certainly only aiming at Americans. Like I said, they pretty much laid it out in the preamble.
Posted by: SH at August 12, 2016 05:27 PM (gmeXX)
If you can be punished for not giving self-incriminating testimony then you do not have any right to not incriminate yourself.
The amendment was written understanding that non-citizens can always be thrown out for any reason, or for none, so the Founders were certainly only aiming at Americans. Like I said, they pretty much laid it out in the preamble.
Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at August 12, 2016 05:31 PM (zc3Db)
373
1. Illegals should be deported, as long as the methods and practices used don't interfere with the already existing liberties of citizens already here.
*****
Why should they be afforded the liberties of citizens already here? They aren't citizens. We don't owe them jack for breaking into the country. The rest of the world owes us a whole helluva a lot if anything. Not the other other way around
*****
Why should they be afforded the liberties of citizens already here? They aren't citizens. We don't owe them jack for breaking into the country. The rest of the world owes us a whole helluva a lot if anything. Not the other other way around
Posted by: L, Elle who is patiently waiting for her I Got Banned by Maetenloch t-shirt at August 12, 2016 05:31 PM (6IPEM)
374
Does anyone else ever wonder if the country is just too damned big and DIVERSE to be governed?
Posted by: tubal at August 12, 2016 05:31 PM (d6TTt)
Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at August 12, 2016 05:32 PM (IqV8l)
376
375
He may be trolling, but he's a professor
Still can't fix a hole in a boat.
Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at August 12, 2016 05:32 PM (IqV8l)
Does amazing work with coconuts though.
He may be trolling, but he's a professor
Still can't fix a hole in a boat.
Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at August 12, 2016 05:32 PM (IqV8l)
Does amazing work with coconuts though.
Posted by: Insomniac at August 12, 2016 05:33 PM (0mRoj)
377
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at August 12, 2016 05:28 PM (Zu3d9)
Excuse me? How is this trolling? I believe it is a perfectly reasonable statement.
Excuse me? How is this trolling? I believe it is a perfectly reasonable statement.
Posted by: chemjeff at August 12, 2016 05:33 PM (uAvJJ)
Posted by: The Chicken at August 12, 2016 05:33 PM (c1srJ)
379
"1. Illegals should be deported, as long as the methods and practices used don't interfere with the already existing liberties of citizens already here.
*****
Why should they be afforded the liberties of citizens already here? They aren't citizens. We don't owe them jack for breaking into the country. The rest of the world owes us a whole helluva a lot if anything. Not the other other way around"
He's saying that we don't want to stop citizens randomly and demand their papers, so we shouldn't use this method to find illegals because it also harms the citizen's civil rights.
*****
Why should they be afforded the liberties of citizens already here? They aren't citizens. We don't owe them jack for breaking into the country. The rest of the world owes us a whole helluva a lot if anything. Not the other other way around"
He's saying that we don't want to stop citizens randomly and demand their papers, so we shouldn't use this method to find illegals because it also harms the citizen's civil rights.
Posted by: Sexypig at August 12, 2016 05:33 PM (UBBWX)
380
The Randianism you write about is not remotely Randianism. She never said, implied, or believed anything like this crap--not in Atlas Shrugged (Chambers' review was wildly inaccurate and wildly dishonest), not anywhere in her writings. She said quite the opposite.
People who won't read Rand, or who think reading a little bit of Atlas Shrugged and The Fountainhead gives them thorough knowledge of what is Randianism or Randianism, shouldn't comment on what she thought, what is Randianism or Randianism. They just end up echoing the same flat-out wrong caricatures.
People who won't read Rand, or who think reading a little bit of Atlas Shrugged and The Fountainhead gives them thorough knowledge of what is Randianism or Randianism, shouldn't comment on what she thought, what is Randianism or Randianism. They just end up echoing the same flat-out wrong caricatures.
Posted by: David at August 12, 2016 05:34 PM (ahMem)
381
We won a two front world war with a population of 140 million. We don't need any immigrants at all. A total moratorium for about 25 years is needed to digest the millions we have already taken in.
If there were some foreigner, whose presence here was so vital that we had to bend the policy, let him become a naturalized citizen by specific act of Congress.
Country's Full. Moose out front shoulda told ya.
Posted by: Grump928(c)
Nailed it.
If there were some foreigner, whose presence here was so vital that we had to bend the policy, let him become a naturalized citizen by specific act of Congress.
Country's Full. Moose out front shoulda told ya.
Posted by: Grump928(c)
Nailed it.
Posted by: rickb223 TEXIT at August 12, 2016 05:34 PM (UYkjZ)
382
Why should they be afforded the liberties of citizens already here?
They shouldn't. I am discussing the liberties of citizens, not those of illegals.
They shouldn't. I am discussing the liberties of citizens, not those of illegals.
Posted by: chemjeff at August 12, 2016 05:34 PM (uAvJJ)
383
The amendment was written understanding that non-citizens can always be thrown out for any reason, or for none, so the Founders were certainly only aiming at Americans. Like I said, they pretty much laid it out in the preamble.
-----------
I don't think we are necessarily arguing. But if such a person was not deported, the amendment would apply.
-----------
I don't think we are necessarily arguing. But if such a person was not deported, the amendment would apply.
Posted by: SH at August 12, 2016 05:34 PM (gmeXX)
384
He's saying that we don't want to stop citizens
randomly and demand their papers, so we shouldn't use this method to
find illegals because it also harms the citizen's civil rights.
Posted by: Sexypig at August 12, 2016 05:33 PM (UBBWX)
Yes, this is what I mean.
randomly and demand their papers, so we shouldn't use this method to
find illegals because it also harms the citizen's civil rights.
Posted by: Sexypig at August 12, 2016 05:33 PM (UBBWX)
Yes, this is what I mean.
Posted by: chemjeff at August 12, 2016 05:34 PM (uAvJJ)
385
Not caring about your countrymen who were not blessed as much as you at birth is very european (and pretty much the rest of the world, too).
This country started more or less from scratch. The greats of the 19th century mostly came up from the bottom and were familiar with the people there. Although there was "old money" early in the 20th, enough came up from the bottom or were raised to respect those beneath them that caring about the "lesser" was pretty much ingrained.
I think the caring stopped with the end of the draft. The attitude gradually became "we're better than you, and entitled. Know your place". I would not advocate renewing the draft; a totally professional military is much better. But I think the mixing of strata it provided was probably good for the country and bad for elitists.
This country started more or less from scratch. The greats of the 19th century mostly came up from the bottom and were familiar with the people there. Although there was "old money" early in the 20th, enough came up from the bottom or were raised to respect those beneath them that caring about the "lesser" was pretty much ingrained.
I think the caring stopped with the end of the draft. The attitude gradually became "we're better than you, and entitled. Know your place". I would not advocate renewing the draft; a totally professional military is much better. But I think the mixing of strata it provided was probably good for the country and bad for elitists.
Posted by: CharlieL at August 12, 2016 05:35 PM (V+GP6)
386
Bret Stephens is the horse's ass who, who weeks ago, wrote of Hillary!'s email and monetary follies as "cutting corners". Which is like saying that Omar Mateen handled firearms carelessly.
Posted by: Brown Line at August 12, 2016 05:35 PM (xgyfF)
387
>>He's saying that we don't want to stop citizens randomly and demand their papers, so we shouldn't use this method to find illegals because it also harms the citizen's civil rights.
Why? Because you assume they are brown?
Last time I looked, a traffic stop was not a violation of my civil rights.
Nor is a request for ID.
Why? Because you assume they are brown?
Last time I looked, a traffic stop was not a violation of my civil rights.
Nor is a request for ID.
Posted by: garrett at August 12, 2016 05:35 PM (c1srJ)
388
If you're basically telling American workers you plan to simply
replace them with cheaper imports and they can move to Mexico where
prices are cheaper if they don't like it- -Just until we can get robots.
um, how exactly do you get them to vote for you?
Won't matter after we get robots.
If you're basically telling American workers you plan to simply
replace them with cheaper imports and they can move to Mexico where
prices are cheaper if they don't like it- -Just until we can get robots.
um, how exactly do you get them to vote for you?
Won't matter after we get robots.
Posted by: Your StockHolding Betters at August 12, 2016 05:36 PM (8J/Te)
389
Damn chemjeff. Give it up.
Get out of your bubble.
Illegals,should they cross the system by reasonable means, should be sent home.
Legal immigration should be handled better than it is being handled now.
Get out of your bubble.
Illegals,should they cross the system by reasonable means, should be sent home.
Legal immigration should be handled better than it is being handled now.
Posted by: Golfman at August 12, 2016 05:36 PM (9HX7k)
390
As a middle-class American with disposable
income, I see no reason I should vote to "help" the poor in ways that
will primarily disadvantage ME while leaving the uber-rich untouched.
So when the Democrats agitate for a $15 min wage or Trump agitates for
tariffs on cheaply imported consumer goods, what I'm hearing is another
plot to lift up the poor by bringing down the middle-class to their
level. And I have no idea why anybody would expect me to vote for that
out of some sense of patriotic duty to my countrymen.
Posted by: cjw at August 12, 2016 05:30 PM (onydf)
Middle-class is yet another term that has virtually no meaning. In NYC middle class is as high as 250K a year. Most of the rest of America would consider that more than middle class.
As a middle-class American with disposable
income, I see no reason I should vote to "help" the poor in ways that
will primarily disadvantage ME while leaving the uber-rich untouched.
So when the Democrats agitate for a $15 min wage or Trump agitates for
tariffs on cheaply imported consumer goods, what I'm hearing is another
plot to lift up the poor by bringing down the middle-class to their
level. And I have no idea why anybody would expect me to vote for that
out of some sense of patriotic duty to my countrymen.
Posted by: cjw at August 12, 2016 05:30 PM (onydf)
Middle-class is yet another term that has virtually no meaning. In NYC middle class is as high as 250K a year. Most of the rest of America would consider that more than middle class.
Posted by: DFCtomm at August 12, 2016 05:36 PM (4PEWr)
391
He may be trolling, but he's a professor Still can't fix a hole in a boat.
Yeah, but atomic tomatoes. Who could have seen that coming?
Yeah, but atomic tomatoes. Who could have seen that coming?
Posted by: free range 'sorta' conservative but not 'true' conservative at August 12, 2016 05:36 PM (ZnIt3)
392
388
If you're basically telling American workers you plan to simply
replace them with cheaper imports and they can move to Mexico where
prices are cheaper if they don't like it- -Just until we can get robots.
um, how exactly do you get them to vote for you?
Won't matter after we get robots.
Posted by: Your StockHolding Betters at August 12, 2016 05:36 PM (8J/Te)
I'll take a sexbot please.
If you're basically telling American workers you plan to simply
replace them with cheaper imports and they can move to Mexico where
prices are cheaper if they don't like it- -Just until we can get robots.
um, how exactly do you get them to vote for you?
Won't matter after we get robots.
Posted by: Your StockHolding Betters at August 12, 2016 05:36 PM (8J/Te)
I'll take a sexbot please.
Posted by: Insomniac at August 12, 2016 05:36 PM (0mRoj)
393
Whittaker Chambers and Bill Buckley hated Ayn Rand (aka, Alice Rosenblum, Russian emigre) because she was an atheist. They thought that ultimately, Christian faith was the best weapon against Godless communism. Maybe the Strategic Air Command, too (most guys I ever knew in SAC were pretty religious).
She didn't hate religion, but she thought it was illogical. She disliked the idea of "self sacrifice" as an ideal, because as a child growing up in Soviet Russia, she saw it destroy her father's modest pharmacy business. She saw a lot of self-sacrifice in religious people, which also explains, in part, why she never had children (her husband Frank Connor did want to have children).
I don't know where this is leading, but I don't think, as others have said above, that Rand hated the poor. She was very sympathetic to the working poor, trying to get ahead, and how the State conspired to hold them down. She was also a real patriot, and loved America, warts and all. "There was I, but for the United States", she said of people whose lives were screwed up by collectivism (like her younger sister who stayed in Russia).
She gave a great oration at West Point once (it was in one of her anthologies), which saluted what West Point stood for, and called them the real Army of Liberation, because of all the people that the US Army had freed from tyranny.
She didn't hate religion, but she thought it was illogical. She disliked the idea of "self sacrifice" as an ideal, because as a child growing up in Soviet Russia, she saw it destroy her father's modest pharmacy business. She saw a lot of self-sacrifice in religious people, which also explains, in part, why she never had children (her husband Frank Connor did want to have children).
I don't know where this is leading, but I don't think, as others have said above, that Rand hated the poor. She was very sympathetic to the working poor, trying to get ahead, and how the State conspired to hold them down. She was also a real patriot, and loved America, warts and all. "There was I, but for the United States", she said of people whose lives were screwed up by collectivism (like her younger sister who stayed in Russia).
She gave a great oration at West Point once (it was in one of her anthologies), which saluted what West Point stood for, and called them the real Army of Liberation, because of all the people that the US Army had freed from tyranny.
Posted by: Bossy Conservative....outlaw in America at August 12, 2016 05:37 PM (S6Pax)
394
If you think they're smoking some great stuff in DC wait til you see what's in the pipe from Davos.
Posted by: DaveA at August 12, 2016 05:37 PM (8J/Te)
395
I'll take a sexbot please.
Posted by: Insomniac at August 12, 2016 05:36 PM (0mRoj)
Yeah, I bet they're high maintenance.
Posted by: Insomniac at August 12, 2016 05:36 PM (0mRoj)
Yeah, I bet they're high maintenance.
Posted by: tubal at August 12, 2016 05:38 PM (d6TTt)
396
>> Also how much of Pay Pal was his doing?
He took $6M from Compaq for his previous startup, bought a McLaren F1, and started looking for something else to do. He took Peter Thiel for a ride and flipped it into a ditch on their way to see some Sand Hill VCs.
PayPal got funded, turned millionaire Musk into billionaire Musk. He never had any executive role there but some of the staff from his previous startup (not including me) eventually ended up there.
The one thing I admire about where he is now, and I've said this before: most internet/software Daddy Warbucks take their money and plow it back into software, back into something internet.
Musk took his money and did hardware. Hardware is hard, and you're competing against seriously entrenched industries.
He took $6M from Compaq for his previous startup, bought a McLaren F1, and started looking for something else to do. He took Peter Thiel for a ride and flipped it into a ditch on their way to see some Sand Hill VCs.
PayPal got funded, turned millionaire Musk into billionaire Musk. He never had any executive role there but some of the staff from his previous startup (not including me) eventually ended up there.
The one thing I admire about where he is now, and I've said this before: most internet/software Daddy Warbucks take their money and plow it back into software, back into something internet.
Musk took his money and did hardware. Hardware is hard, and you're competing against seriously entrenched industries.
Posted by: JEM at August 12, 2016 05:38 PM (o+SC1)
397
Illegals should be deported, as long as the methods and practices used don't interfere with the already existing liberties of citizens already
here.
Posted by: chemjeff at August 12, 2016 05:25 PM (uAvJJ)
In what way, shape or form would they? Show your work.
here.
Posted by: chemjeff at August 12, 2016 05:25 PM (uAvJJ)
In what way, shape or form would they? Show your work.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at August 12, 2016 05:39 PM (9P3OG)
398
, I had to work hard for it.
Posted by: allenlou
You're government shouldn't be working against you.
Especially when your supposed party is in the majority.
Posted by: allenlou
You're government shouldn't be working against you.
Especially when your supposed party is in the majority.
Posted by: DaveA at August 12, 2016 05:39 PM (8J/Te)
399
395 I'll take a sexbot please.
Posted by: Insomniac at August 12, 2016 05:36 PM (0mRoj)
Yeah, I bet they're high maintenance.
Posted by: tubal at August 12, 2016 05:38 PM (d6TTt)
The female models, sure. Adds to the realism.
Posted by: Insomniac at August 12, 2016 05:36 PM (0mRoj)
Yeah, I bet they're high maintenance.
Posted by: tubal at August 12, 2016 05:38 PM (d6TTt)
The female models, sure. Adds to the realism.
Posted by: Insomniac at August 12, 2016 05:39 PM (0mRoj)
400
374 Does anyone else ever wonder if the country is just too damned big and DIVERSE to be governed?
__________________
It was never supposed to be governed from D.C.
The states were supposed to govern themselves. The federal government was supposed to have very limited powers, and do only those things that couldn't practically be done by the states.
Then the "progressives," in their infinite wisdom, decided that a federal government that dictated every single aspect of every American's life, would be a much better idea, so they began their systematic destruction of the constitution.
__________________
It was never supposed to be governed from D.C.
The states were supposed to govern themselves. The federal government was supposed to have very limited powers, and do only those things that couldn't practically be done by the states.
Then the "progressives," in their infinite wisdom, decided that a federal government that dictated every single aspect of every American's life, would be a much better idea, so they began their systematic destruction of the constitution.
Posted by: TrivialPursuer at August 12, 2016 05:39 PM (NnYnv)
401
O/T Israeli judoka who beat that crazy eguyptian won an Olympic Medal.
Posted by: runner at August 12, 2016 05:39 PM (c6/9Q)
402
It's all coming into focus.
Posted by: eleven at August 12, 2016 05:39 PM (qUNWi)
403
Won't matter after we get robots.
Posted by: Your StockHolding Betters at August 12, 2016 05:36 PM (8J/Te)
That's the secret nobody is getting. For the first time in human history the elites class won't need the serfs, to work their factories, toil in their fields, tend their children, clean their houses....or fight their wars. They simply won't need the serfs at all, and that anticipation is what, I imagine, is fueling much of the separation we're discussing today.
Posted by: Your StockHolding Betters at August 12, 2016 05:36 PM (8J/Te)
That's the secret nobody is getting. For the first time in human history the elites class won't need the serfs, to work their factories, toil in their fields, tend their children, clean their houses....or fight their wars. They simply won't need the serfs at all, and that anticipation is what, I imagine, is fueling much of the separation we're discussing today.
Posted by: DFCtomm at August 12, 2016 05:39 PM (4PEWr)
404
"Legal immigration should be handled better than it is being handled now."
According to at least two commenters in this thread, there should be zero legal immigration.
Do you believe that as well?
For example, rick223 and Grump, do you think American servicemen overseas who marry a foreign bride should be allowed back in the country with their wife? Or would that also require an act of Congress?
According to at least two commenters in this thread, there should be zero legal immigration.
Do you believe that as well?
For example, rick223 and Grump, do you think American servicemen overseas who marry a foreign bride should be allowed back in the country with their wife? Or would that also require an act of Congress?
Posted by: Sexypig at August 12, 2016 05:39 PM (UBBWX)
Posted by: garrett at August 12, 2016 05:40 PM (c1srJ)
406
For example, rick223 and Grump, do you think American servicemen overseas who marry a foreign bride should be allowed back in the country with their wife?
Oh Jesus Christ, not this again.
Oh Jesus Christ, not this again.
Posted by: Insomniac at August 12, 2016 05:40 PM (0mRoj)
407
Reagan loved America so much, he understood why others would want to come be a part.
But his was the controlled Ellis Island-model.
You come legally, leave old loyalties behind, you owe it to America to assimilate, work hard and learn English.
All of those have been replaced:
It's uncontrolled.
Illegal.
Keep your old loyalties even if they're anti-American.
America owes you and your culture.
Don't assimilate--we'll adapt to you.
Free Food, housing, medical, energy, tax rebates--even cell phones!
Ballots in 50 languages.
Reagan wouldn't sign up for all that.
But his was the controlled Ellis Island-model.
You come legally, leave old loyalties behind, you owe it to America to assimilate, work hard and learn English.
All of those have been replaced:
It's uncontrolled.
Illegal.
Keep your old loyalties even if they're anti-American.
America owes you and your culture.
Don't assimilate--we'll adapt to you.
Free Food, housing, medical, energy, tax rebates--even cell phones!
Ballots in 50 languages.
Reagan wouldn't sign up for all that.
Posted by: The Gipper Lives at August 12, 2016 05:40 PM (Ndje9)
408
My sexbot will be programmed to call me an asshole that treats her like a whore.
Then I'll feel at home.
Then I'll feel at home.
Posted by: eleven at August 12, 2016 05:40 PM (qUNWi)
409
the same people causing the same fights every thread
Posted by: Nevergiveup at August 12, 2016 05:41 PM (Ozsfq)
410
Why? Because you assume they are brown?
Last time I looked, a traffic stop was not a violation of my civil rights.
Nor is a request for ID.
Posted by: garrett at August 12, 2016 05:35 PM (c1srJ)
Driving on public roads is a privilege, as we are all aware, and drivers have to carry licenses and present those to LEO upon request.
But walking on public streets is not a mere privilege. If, on a public street, LEO asks for my ID because he thinks that I am, say, loitering, then in many states (not all), currently, I am free to refuse his request.
https://www.flexyourrights.org/faqs/when-can-police-ask-for-id/
Last time I looked, a traffic stop was not a violation of my civil rights.
Nor is a request for ID.
Posted by: garrett at August 12, 2016 05:35 PM (c1srJ)
Driving on public roads is a privilege, as we are all aware, and drivers have to carry licenses and present those to LEO upon request.
But walking on public streets is not a mere privilege. If, on a public street, LEO asks for my ID because he thinks that I am, say, loitering, then in many states (not all), currently, I am free to refuse his request.
https://www.flexyourrights.org/faqs/when-can-police-ask-for-id/
Posted by: chemjeff at August 12, 2016 05:41 PM (uAvJJ)
Posted by: runner at August 12, 2016 05:41 PM (c6/9Q)
412
The Establishment is the Borg and we are. . . .
Posted by: SFGoth at August 12, 2016 05:41 PM (dZ756)
413
I believe it is a perfectly reasonable statement.
Posted by: chemjeff at August 12, 2016 05:33 PM (uAvJJ)
No...it is an idiotic and inflammatory statement designed to irritate people and draw their ire in the form of angry comments.
Nobody has suggested that we declare martial law and start kicking down doors to drag infants out of their cribs and toss them into boxcars for a night journey to the Mexican border.
Maybe if you paid attention to what people have written here about civil liberties you would accept that it is axiomatic that our rights as citizens are to be respected.
Posted by: chemjeff at August 12, 2016 05:33 PM (uAvJJ)
No...it is an idiotic and inflammatory statement designed to irritate people and draw their ire in the form of angry comments.
Nobody has suggested that we declare martial law and start kicking down doors to drag infants out of their cribs and toss them into boxcars for a night journey to the Mexican border.
Maybe if you paid attention to what people have written here about civil liberties you would accept that it is axiomatic that our rights as citizens are to be respected.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at August 12, 2016 05:41 PM (Zu3d9)
414
401 O/T Israeli judoka who beat that crazy eguyptian won an Olympic Medal.
Posted by: runner at August 12, 2016 05:39 PM (c6/9Q)
Good for him. He was a real sportsman and his opponent was a total douche.
Posted by: runner at August 12, 2016 05:39 PM (c6/9Q)
Good for him. He was a real sportsman and his opponent was a total douche.
Posted by: Insomniac at August 12, 2016 05:41 PM (0mRoj)
415
I think we are trying to do to much at once with reasonable immigration reform. We should be addressing each issue separately instead of one complicated mess of a piece of legislation.
Start with the low hanging fruit that everyone can agree with. Deportation of illegal immigrants who have committed crimes. Yes we have laws already but we need to reform them to hold the enforcers accountable. Work our way up from there.
Start with the low hanging fruit that everyone can agree with. Deportation of illegal immigrants who have committed crimes. Yes we have laws already but we need to reform them to hold the enforcers accountable. Work our way up from there.
Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck at August 12, 2016 05:41 PM (+P27u)
416
"In what way, shape or form would they? Show your work."
An example was already provided.
Are you saying you'd support checking random people on the street for papers, to catch illegals?
An example was already provided.
Are you saying you'd support checking random people on the street for papers, to catch illegals?
Posted by: Sexypig at August 12, 2016 05:41 PM (UBBWX)
417
Yeah. In 1994 the Insurance industry fought Hillary and Bill Clinton's Heathcare bill tooth and nail. In 2010 they fought tooth and nail to get it passed.
Forced customers with the taxpayer picking up the losses.
Posted by: #NeverHillary at August 12, 2016 05:29 PM (/So8Q)
Yeah, but, that is biting them big time, they are hemorrhaging money. I retired from one of them and they lost $1.5 BILLION last year and they had never had a year where they didn't make at least a few hundred million.
Forced customers with the taxpayer picking up the losses.
Posted by: #NeverHillary at August 12, 2016 05:29 PM (/So8Q)
Yeah, but, that is biting them big time, they are hemorrhaging money. I retired from one of them and they lost $1.5 BILLION last year and they had never had a year where they didn't make at least a few hundred million.
Posted by: Sherry McEvil, Stiletto Corsettes Ima going long on popcorn and butter futures!! at August 12, 2016 05:42 PM (kXoT0)
418
Posted by: Sexypig at August 12, 2016 05:39 PM (UBBWX)
I mentioned nothing about that.
If you to wade into to my comment, respond to my points.
I mentioned nothing about that.
If you to wade into to my comment, respond to my points.
Posted by: Golfman at August 12, 2016 05:42 PM (9HX7k)
Posted by: eleven at August 12, 2016 05:42 PM (qUNWi)
420
OK. After a few minutes' pause to reflect and do some offline work, I gotta call out the "Bill of Rights not applied to non-citizens" thing on the grounds of potential philosophical incoherence.
From whence to our rights originate? The argument in use is the most dangerous--they are rights issued by a document or government, granted or denied as as pleased. It is one I disagree with, and one I thought was understood to be anathema to the liberty-oriented, who would understand that what is said is that government may not abridge those rights--not that it grants them--which means they are, of course, inherent. As inherent rights all humanity has them; the difference is the degree to which they are exercised or suppressed.
What I absolutely DO agree with is that the privileges of citizens should not be granted to non-citizens. This includes most notably voting, but I would include the ability to serve in the military or government, access to any entitlement programs as might (foolishly) be maintained, etc. And under absolutely no circumstances should any action of any part of government create a privileged position for non-citizens against citizens (say good by, H-1B).
From whence to our rights originate? The argument in use is the most dangerous--they are rights issued by a document or government, granted or denied as as pleased. It is one I disagree with, and one I thought was understood to be anathema to the liberty-oriented, who would understand that what is said is that government may not abridge those rights--not that it grants them--which means they are, of course, inherent. As inherent rights all humanity has them; the difference is the degree to which they are exercised or suppressed.
What I absolutely DO agree with is that the privileges of citizens should not be granted to non-citizens. This includes most notably voting, but I would include the ability to serve in the military or government, access to any entitlement programs as might (foolishly) be maintained, etc. And under absolutely no circumstances should any action of any part of government create a privileged position for non-citizens against citizens (say good by, H-1B).
Posted by: Brother Cavil, down with Eph 6:12-13 at August 12, 2016 05:42 PM (9krrF)
421
For example, rick223 and Grump, do you think American servicemen overseas who marry a foreign bride should be allowed back in the country with their wife?
Oh Jesus Christ, not this again.
Posted by: Insomniac at August 12, 2016 05:40 PM (0mRoj)
Sheesh. I am still baffled as to where S*xy P*g came up with this nonsense. Was blathering about it yesterday as well.
Oh Jesus Christ, not this again.
Posted by: Insomniac at August 12, 2016 05:40 PM (0mRoj)
Sheesh. I am still baffled as to where S*xy P*g came up with this nonsense. Was blathering about it yesterday as well.
Posted by: Pug Mahon at August 12, 2016 05:43 PM (RwwCT)
422
What the fuck is it with Jeffs?
Posted by: eleven at August 12, 2016 05:43 PM (qUNWi)
423
Good for him. He was a real sportsman and his opponent was a total douche.
Posted by: Insomniac at August 12, 2016 05:41 PM (0mRoj)
there is a bit of a fallout - he quit judo and IOC is going to investigate the incident.
Posted by: Insomniac at August 12, 2016 05:41 PM (0mRoj)
there is a bit of a fallout - he quit judo and IOC is going to investigate the incident.
Posted by: runner at August 12, 2016 05:43 PM (c6/9Q)
424
sexbot will be programmed to call me an asshole that treats her like a whore.
Then I'll feel at home.
Posted by: eleven at August 12, 2016 05:40 PM (qUNWi)
Mine will want to talk about how it feels, and its problems. It will just want me to Listen, and Listen. And Listen some more.
But not want me to pop off with Solutions. Because.
Then I'll feel at home.
Posted by: eleven at August 12, 2016 05:40 PM (qUNWi)
Mine will want to talk about how it feels, and its problems. It will just want me to Listen, and Listen. And Listen some more.
But not want me to pop off with Solutions. Because.
Posted by: tubal at August 12, 2016 05:43 PM (d6TTt)
425
409 the same people causing the same fights every thread
Posted by: Nevergiveup at August 12, 2016 05:41 PM (Ozsfq)
Yup. It's getting really fucking old.
Posted by: Nevergiveup at August 12, 2016 05:41 PM (Ozsfq)
Yup. It's getting really fucking old.
Posted by: Insomniac at August 12, 2016 05:43 PM (0mRoj)
426
"I think we are trying to do to much at once with reasonable immigration reform. We should be addressing each issue separately instead of one complicated mess of a piece of legislation.
Start with the low hanging fruit that everyone can agree with. Deportation of illegal immigrants who have committed crimes. Yes we have laws already but we need to reform them to hold the enforcers accountable. Work our way up from there."
THIS.
DC is too much into comprehensive deals. I think its so they can selectively enforce.
Start with the low hanging fruit that everyone can agree with. Deportation of illegal immigrants who have committed crimes. Yes we have laws already but we need to reform them to hold the enforcers accountable. Work our way up from there."
THIS.
DC is too much into comprehensive deals. I think its so they can selectively enforce.
Posted by: Sexypig at August 12, 2016 05:43 PM (UBBWX)
427
>> If, on a public street, LEO asks for my ID because he thinks that I am, say, loitering, then in many states (not all), currently, I am free to refuse his request.
And I am free to laugh while he applies a liberal dose of Hickory Shampoo, or Snapple Conditioner to your head.
And I am free to laugh while he applies a liberal dose of Hickory Shampoo, or Snapple Conditioner to your head.
Posted by: garrett at August 12, 2016 05:44 PM (c1srJ)
428
@387: "Last time I looked, a traffic stop was not a violation of my civil rights.
Nor is a request for ID."
Absent probable cause (or reasonable suspicion), yeah, they are. The government - largely through the courts, but occasionally by statute - has been very good at obscuring that.
Nor is a request for ID."
Absent probable cause (or reasonable suspicion), yeah, they are. The government - largely through the courts, but occasionally by statute - has been very good at obscuring that.
Posted by: FaCubeItches at August 12, 2016 05:44 PM (rznWS)
Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at August 12, 2016 05:44 PM (IqV8l)
430
ace at 192: "and your answer to them is, what?"
I don't deign to speak for all American corporations. Just one little one, representative of a few million other small employers (businesses that employ more than one or two people).
My point is this: If we're going to start drawing lines in the sand based on class warfare, we'd better be damned careful where we draw those lines and who our targets are, lest we cut our coalition down to nothing, disparage innocent corporations, and cut off our nose to spite our face.
What would I say to people who want to see immigration curtailed? I'm right there with you. Now, this is easy for me, because the corporation that I represent has no use for illegal immigrants. So this is a cheap thing for me to say. It's harder for people who represent tomato canneries, for example.
And to those canneries I'd say: Fuck you, pay more for your material. I'd say this because a) I'm on low carb now and don't eat tomatoes and b) as a machine shop, we already pay a protectionist-fueled premium for steel and stainless. So we get fucked at both ends: We bear the cost of protectionism at our supply end, and then when we go to sell, we have to compete with China, whose government purchases their material for them. So yeah, fuck those tomato canneries.
My point: Not all corporations are run by evil shit-heels trying to outsource everything and hire illegals. Let's refine our targets here a tad.
I don't deign to speak for all American corporations. Just one little one, representative of a few million other small employers (businesses that employ more than one or two people).
My point is this: If we're going to start drawing lines in the sand based on class warfare, we'd better be damned careful where we draw those lines and who our targets are, lest we cut our coalition down to nothing, disparage innocent corporations, and cut off our nose to spite our face.
What would I say to people who want to see immigration curtailed? I'm right there with you. Now, this is easy for me, because the corporation that I represent has no use for illegal immigrants. So this is a cheap thing for me to say. It's harder for people who represent tomato canneries, for example.
And to those canneries I'd say: Fuck you, pay more for your material. I'd say this because a) I'm on low carb now and don't eat tomatoes and b) as a machine shop, we already pay a protectionist-fueled premium for steel and stainless. So we get fucked at both ends: We bear the cost of protectionism at our supply end, and then when we go to sell, we have to compete with China, whose government purchases their material for them. So yeah, fuck those tomato canneries.
My point: Not all corporations are run by evil shit-heels trying to outsource everything and hire illegals. Let's refine our targets here a tad.
Posted by: Pastafarian at August 12, 2016 05:44 PM (sgHEm)
431
Story earlier this week, illegal gets arrested in Philadelphia, has been previously deported and ICE wants him.ICE files the papers but Philadelphia the sanctuary city lets illegal go. Illegal rapes 13 year old girl gets arrested again. If somehow the city can't make case against illegal they still will not let ICE have him.
Posted by: Skip at August 12, 2016 05:44 PM (bksJQ)
432
"409 the same people causing the same fights every thread
Posted by: Nevergiveup at August 12, 2016 05:41 PM (Ozsfq)
Yup. It's getting really fucking old."
Fighting is bad. Let's all just agree and be unified.
Other opinions are bad and scary. Safe Space! Safe Space!
Posted by: Nevergiveup at August 12, 2016 05:41 PM (Ozsfq)
Yup. It's getting really fucking old."
Fighting is bad. Let's all just agree and be unified.
Other opinions are bad and scary. Safe Space! Safe Space!
Posted by: Sexypig at August 12, 2016 05:44 PM (UBBWX)
433
Start with the low hanging fruit that everyone can agree with. Deportation of illegal immigrants who have committed crimes. Yes we have laws already but we need to reform them to hold the enforcers accountable. Work our way up from there.
________________
Border security has to come first.
Today, if you deport a violent criminal illegal on Monday, he's back in the U.S. on Tuesday or Wednesday.
There's no point deporting anybody unless we have secure borders and have some way of keeping them from coming right back in.
________________
Border security has to come first.
Today, if you deport a violent criminal illegal on Monday, he's back in the U.S. on Tuesday or Wednesday.
There's no point deporting anybody unless we have secure borders and have some way of keeping them from coming right back in.
Posted by: TrivialPursuer at August 12, 2016 05:44 PM (NnYnv)
434
"Story earlier this week, illegal gets arrested in Philadelphia, has been previously deported and ICE wants him.ICE files the papers but Philadelphia the sanctuary city lets illegal go. Illegal rapes 13 year old girl gets arrested again. If somehow the city can't make case against illegal they still will not let ICE have him."
That's the same as the Steinle case.
Its enraging.
That's the same as the Steinle case.
Its enraging.
Posted by: Sexypig at August 12, 2016 05:45 PM (UBBWX)
435
For example, rick223 and Grump, do you think American servicemen overseas who marry a foreign bride should be allowed back in the country with their wife? Or would that also require an act of Congress?
Good lord, you are a putz. Tiny exceptions like that are what politics is about. The general principle of non-immigration remains.
One might even argue that that situation is not even immigration per se. But rather, the expansion of an existing citizen family.
So yeah, tiny thinker, I'd make an exception for the foreign brides of American citizens.
Good lord, you are a putz. Tiny exceptions like that are what politics is about. The general principle of non-immigration remains.
One might even argue that that situation is not even immigration per se. But rather, the expansion of an existing citizen family.
So yeah, tiny thinker, I'd make an exception for the foreign brides of American citizens.
Posted by: Grump928(c) says Free Soothie! at August 12, 2016 05:45 PM (evdj2)
436
At this point in time I'd be willing to acquiesce to the idea that every self-proclaimed internet 'professor' be permitted to bone every illegal immigrant research assistant within arms reach if it would stop the incessant trolling.
Posted by: free range 'sorta' conservative but not 'true' conservative at August 12, 2016 05:45 PM (ZnIt3)
437
the same people causing the same fights every thread
Posted by: Nevergiveup at August 12, 2016 05:41 PM (Ozsfq)
Yup. It's getting really fucking old."
Fighting is bad. Let's all just agree and be unified.
Other opinions are bad and scary. Safe Space! Safe Space!
Posted by: Sexypig at August 12, 2016 05:44 PM (UBBWX)
Crap..but some people are here only to start fights. and since it's the same person every thread and every day that should be obvious
Posted by: Nevergiveup at August 12, 2016 05:41 PM (Ozsfq)
Yup. It's getting really fucking old."
Fighting is bad. Let's all just agree and be unified.
Other opinions are bad and scary. Safe Space! Safe Space!
Posted by: Sexypig at August 12, 2016 05:44 PM (UBBWX)
Crap..but some people are here only to start fights. and since it's the same person every thread and every day that should be obvious
Posted by: Nevergiveup at August 12, 2016 05:46 PM (Ozsfq)
Posted by: DaveA at August 12, 2016 05:46 PM (8J/Te)
439
He's saying that we don't want to stop citizens
randomly and demand their papers, so we shouldn't use this method to
find illegals because it also harms the citizen's civil rights.
-------
Posted by: Sexypig at August 12, 2016 05:33 PM (UBBWX)
Yes, this is what I mean.
Posted by: chemjeff at August 12, 2016 05:34 PM (uAvJJ)
********
Please tell where papers are being demanded by illegals. Where?
A pregnant woman can cross the border and deliver her baby in an American hospital and never have to present any papers or insurance or even have to pay the bill. We don't ask proof of citizenship from illegals to enroll in public schools. And we can't even ask people to show ID when they vote, but US citizens go through life routinely being asked for ID for the simplest of transactions. Both of you are building one straw man argument after the next. Every argument you put forth is based on the premise that we are mistreating illegals somehow. The American citizen is never given the benefit of the doubt.
randomly and demand their papers, so we shouldn't use this method to
find illegals because it also harms the citizen's civil rights.
-------
Posted by: Sexypig at August 12, 2016 05:33 PM (UBBWX)
Yes, this is what I mean.
Posted by: chemjeff at August 12, 2016 05:34 PM (uAvJJ)
********
Please tell where papers are being demanded by illegals. Where?
A pregnant woman can cross the border and deliver her baby in an American hospital and never have to present any papers or insurance or even have to pay the bill. We don't ask proof of citizenship from illegals to enroll in public schools. And we can't even ask people to show ID when they vote, but US citizens go through life routinely being asked for ID for the simplest of transactions. Both of you are building one straw man argument after the next. Every argument you put forth is based on the premise that we are mistreating illegals somehow. The American citizen is never given the benefit of the doubt.
Posted by: L, Elle who is patiently waiting for her I Got Banned by Maetenloch t-shirt at August 12, 2016 05:46 PM (6IPEM)
440
In what way, shape or form would they? Show your work.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at August 12, 2016 05:39 PM (9P3OG)
For example, many would argue that LEO should have the power to detain a person suspected of not being here legally if, through some other interaction with LEO, that person could not provide proof of citizenship. What this means in practice is that *everyone*, not just immigrants, would have to carry their proof of citizenship with them at all times. Currently that is not the case. See my comment #410.
In what way, shape or form would they? Show your work.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at August 12, 2016 05:39 PM (9P3OG)
For example, many would argue that LEO should have the power to detain a person suspected of not being here legally if, through some other interaction with LEO, that person could not provide proof of citizenship. What this means in practice is that *everyone*, not just immigrants, would have to carry their proof of citizenship with them at all times. Currently that is not the case. See my comment #410.
Posted by: chemjeff at August 12, 2016 05:46 PM (uAvJJ)
441
My sexbot would only respond with the word 'fine'.
Posted by: garrett at August 12, 2016 05:46 PM (c1srJ)
442
sexbot will be programmed to call me an asshole that treats her like a whore.
Then I'll feel at home.
Posted by: eleven
Mine will want to talk about how it feels, and its problems. It will just want me to Listen, and Listen. And Listen some more.
But not want me to pop off with Solutions. Because.
Posted by: tubal
Mine will be set for "cook and clean". Honestly the sex thing can be omitted, I just want a little help around the house. Also a nice home-cooked meal I didn't have to cook.
Then I'll feel at home.
Posted by: eleven
Mine will want to talk about how it feels, and its problems. It will just want me to Listen, and Listen. And Listen some more.
But not want me to pop off with Solutions. Because.
Posted by: tubal
Mine will be set for "cook and clean". Honestly the sex thing can be omitted, I just want a little help around the house. Also a nice home-cooked meal I didn't have to cook.
Posted by: Brother Cavil, down with Eph 6:12-13 at August 12, 2016 05:47 PM (9krrF)
443
there is a bit of a fallout - he quit judo and IOC is going to investigate the incident.
Posted by: runner at August 12, 2016 05:43 PM (c6/9Q)
The Egyptian guy? Good.
Posted by: runner at August 12, 2016 05:43 PM (c6/9Q)
The Egyptian guy? Good.
Posted by: Insomniac at August 12, 2016 05:47 PM (0mRoj)
444
"And, um, they still having the vote -- I assume you are not planning to strip it from them via a Randian measure"
Don't be too sure about that - you already see claims that the Brexit vote was illegitimate because "old people" supported Brexit, and "young people" opposed Brexit. Only the votes of "young people" should count, apparently.
Actually, I think that the next step will be to get rid of the secret ballet - after all, why should you be allowed to vote for reactionary candidates without The People knowing about it, so The People can retaliate against you for your perfidy.
Don't be too sure about that - you already see claims that the Brexit vote was illegitimate because "old people" supported Brexit, and "young people" opposed Brexit. Only the votes of "young people" should count, apparently.
Actually, I think that the next step will be to get rid of the secret ballet - after all, why should you be allowed to vote for reactionary candidates without The People knowing about it, so The People can retaliate against you for your perfidy.
Posted by: A Birkenstock Smashing Into A Human Face at August 12, 2016 05:47 PM (Mrl1e)
445
All of those have been replaced:
It's uncontrolled.
Illegal.
Keep your old loyalties even if they're anti-American.
America owes you and your culture.
Don't assimilate--we'll adapt to you.
Free Food, housing, medical, energy, tax rebates--even cell phones!
Ballots in 50 languages.
Reagan wouldn't sign up for all that.
Posted by: The Gipper Lives at August 12, 2016 05:40 PM (Ndje9)
Yeah, the language thing is a mess. When I left the health insurance company, they were translating EOBs into 181 languages and the translations had to be perfect--any errors were a liability with costs to the company. I say America does business in English and English only--you want or need a translation--well then you had better have a translator. I also say screw the idea of English and Spanish to accommodate the Hispanics who insist that they have a right to that language--no, you don't because usually the reason you need it is that you are here illegally.
It's uncontrolled.
Illegal.
Keep your old loyalties even if they're anti-American.
America owes you and your culture.
Don't assimilate--we'll adapt to you.
Free Food, housing, medical, energy, tax rebates--even cell phones!
Ballots in 50 languages.
Reagan wouldn't sign up for all that.
Posted by: The Gipper Lives at August 12, 2016 05:40 PM (Ndje9)
Yeah, the language thing is a mess. When I left the health insurance company, they were translating EOBs into 181 languages and the translations had to be perfect--any errors were a liability with costs to the company. I say America does business in English and English only--you want or need a translation--well then you had better have a translator. I also say screw the idea of English and Spanish to accommodate the Hispanics who insist that they have a right to that language--no, you don't because usually the reason you need it is that you are here illegally.
Posted by: Sherry McEvil, Stiletto Corsettes Ima going long on popcorn and butter futures!! at August 12, 2016 05:48 PM (kXoT0)
446
RENEW!!
Posted by: Grump928(c) says Free Soothie! at August 12, 2016 05:48 PM (evdj2)
447
You can now buy Deckard's (Blade Runner) gun!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWs7-5In_tM
Actually, it just kinda looks like Deckard's gun, as pointed out in the video's comments.
Chiappa Rhino .357 revolver. Check it out.
You can now buy Deckard's (Blade Runner) gun!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWs7-5In_tM
Actually, it just kinda looks like Deckard's gun, as pointed out in the video's comments.
Chiappa Rhino .357 revolver. Check it out.
Posted by: Mister Magoo's at August 12, 2016 05:48 PM (8PrS9)
448
But walking on public streets is not a mere
privilege. If, on a public street, LEO asks for my ID because he thinks
that I am, say, loitering, then in many states (not all), currently, I
am free to refuse his request.
Posted by: chemjeff at August 12, 2016 05:41 PM (uAvJJ)
You are either profoundly and irreparably confused, or you are trolling.
From the statement above I have to assume that you believe that illegal immigrants are to be afforded the rights and privileges of American citizens.
Otherwise, the policeman would be free to look at a hispanic-looking man who speaks no English and say, "You are being detained on suspicion of breaking immigration law. Please come with me."
privilege. If, on a public street, LEO asks for my ID because he thinks
that I am, say, loitering, then in many states (not all), currently, I
am free to refuse his request.
Posted by: chemjeff at August 12, 2016 05:41 PM (uAvJJ)
You are either profoundly and irreparably confused, or you are trolling.
From the statement above I have to assume that you believe that illegal immigrants are to be afforded the rights and privileges of American citizens.
Otherwise, the policeman would be free to look at a hispanic-looking man who speaks no English and say, "You are being detained on suspicion of breaking immigration law. Please come with me."
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at August 12, 2016 05:48 PM (Zu3d9)
449
And I am free to laugh while he applies a liberal dose of Hickory Shampoo, or Snapple Conditioner to your head.
Posted by: garrett at August 12, 2016 05:44 PM (c1srJ)
Regardless of the wisdom (or lack thereof) of refusing the LEO's request to show ID, I currently have the liberty to do so. Do you think I ought to have that liberty?
Posted by: garrett at August 12, 2016 05:44 PM (c1srJ)
Regardless of the wisdom (or lack thereof) of refusing the LEO's request to show ID, I currently have the liberty to do so. Do you think I ought to have that liberty?
Posted by: chemjeff at August 12, 2016 05:48 PM (uAvJJ)
450
Posted by: Sexypig at August 12, 2016 05:44 PM (UBBWX)
Please get bent. Your monomaniacal shit stirring with this imaginary bugbear you have is tiresome.
Please get bent. Your monomaniacal shit stirring with this imaginary bugbear you have is tiresome.
Posted by: Insomniac at August 12, 2016 05:49 PM (0mRoj)
451
"For example, rick223 and Grump, do you think American servicemen overseas who marry a foreign bride should be allowed back in the country with their wife?"
Where do I get this?
"We won a two front world war with a population of 140 million. We don't need any immigrants at all. A total moratorium for about 25 years is needed to digest the millions we have already taken in.
If there were some foreigner, whose presence here was so vital that we had to bend the policy, let him become a naturalized citizen by specific act of Congress.
Country's Full. Moose out front shoulda told ya."
Rick223 agreed with this.
So, Grump's plan doesn't seem to include people marrying foreigners.
I'm just asking if that's the case, because in another thread, two other commenters said this as well.
Ace wants clarification from GOPe on their real beliefs. i'm just asking clarification from some commenters.
Where do I get this?
"We won a two front world war with a population of 140 million. We don't need any immigrants at all. A total moratorium for about 25 years is needed to digest the millions we have already taken in.
If there were some foreigner, whose presence here was so vital that we had to bend the policy, let him become a naturalized citizen by specific act of Congress.
Country's Full. Moose out front shoulda told ya."
Rick223 agreed with this.
So, Grump's plan doesn't seem to include people marrying foreigners.
I'm just asking if that's the case, because in another thread, two other commenters said this as well.
Ace wants clarification from GOPe on their real beliefs. i'm just asking clarification from some commenters.
Posted by: Sexypig at August 12, 2016 05:49 PM (UBBWX)
452
I'll take a sexbot please.
Posted by: Insomniac
You want a sexbot.
You'll settle for a soxbot.
You'll get a SexyPig.
Posted by: Insomniac
You want a sexbot.
You'll settle for a soxbot.
You'll get a SexyPig.
Posted by: weft cut-loop at August 12, 2016 05:49 PM (9sySV)
453
>>My point: Not all corporations are run by evil shit-heels trying to outsource everything and hire illegals. Let's refine our targets here a tad.
That's similar to the point I've been hammering on for some time. The left became fans of transnational progressivism because it's a religious calling for them. Some conservatives have followed suit in the corporate world not because they bought into the religion but because government has largely forced them to adopt or die.
The problem isn't that conservatives, real actual conservatives, are in love with illegal labor or the big fans of some sort of global governance but that is what the left has forced on them through big government regulation. And their survival instinct is stronger than their desire to be good constitutional conservatives.
That's similar to the point I've been hammering on for some time. The left became fans of transnational progressivism because it's a religious calling for them. Some conservatives have followed suit in the corporate world not because they bought into the religion but because government has largely forced them to adopt or die.
The problem isn't that conservatives, real actual conservatives, are in love with illegal labor or the big fans of some sort of global governance but that is what the left has forced on them through big government regulation. And their survival instinct is stronger than their desire to be good constitutional conservatives.
Posted by: JackStraw at August 12, 2016 05:49 PM (/tuJf)
454
Mine will be set for "cook and clean". Honestly the sex thing can be omitted, I just want a little help around the house. Also a nice home-cooked meal I didn't have to cook.
Posted by: Brother Cavil, down with Eph 6:12-13 at August 12, 2016 05:47 PM (9krrF)
Yeah, Brother C, I could say something about renting or leasing an undocumented domestic, but I'm not going to, because it's just egging things on.
Posted by: Brother Cavil, down with Eph 6:12-13 at August 12, 2016 05:47 PM (9krrF)
Yeah, Brother C, I could say something about renting or leasing an undocumented domestic, but I'm not going to, because it's just egging things on.
Posted by: tubal at August 12, 2016 05:49 PM (d6TTt)
455
Actually, re CBD and Chemjeff, I think one of "illegal immigration's" intended by-products was actually to destroy the whole idea of both civil culture and civil rights.
When people who actually, legally don't belong here are accorded the same legal rights as a citizens whose families have been here generations and have done everything they could to support this country, then just what do civil rights actually mean? They become a grab-bag of meaningless goodies, tossed about at random.
What about that poor girl's civil rights that was beaten by the TSA agent because she was recovering from brain cancer and was confused? Oh, it was a mistake, they should have told the TSA about this special case.
Well, the underlying premise is that the TSA agents do not feel restrained by any "civil rights" of citizens in ensuring that so-called airport security. You're treated like cattle and you better like it. I travel some, and most of my TSA encounters have been benign, except this one guy that felt up by ass. It was such a freaking surprise that I didn't know how to react.
When people who actually, legally don't belong here are accorded the same legal rights as a citizens whose families have been here generations and have done everything they could to support this country, then just what do civil rights actually mean? They become a grab-bag of meaningless goodies, tossed about at random.
What about that poor girl's civil rights that was beaten by the TSA agent because she was recovering from brain cancer and was confused? Oh, it was a mistake, they should have told the TSA about this special case.
Well, the underlying premise is that the TSA agents do not feel restrained by any "civil rights" of citizens in ensuring that so-called airport security. You're treated like cattle and you better like it. I travel some, and most of my TSA encounters have been benign, except this one guy that felt up by ass. It was such a freaking surprise that I didn't know how to react.
Posted by: Bossy Conservative....outlaw in America at August 12, 2016 05:50 PM (S6Pax)
456
Some day they'll invent AoS commenting robots to do all our commenting for us.
Some day they'll invent AoS commenting robots to do all our commenting for us.
Posted by: Mister Magoo's at August 12, 2016 05:50 PM (8PrS9)
457
Apropos of nothing, my NOS Polish laminate AK furniture is here! I know what I'll be doing tonight.
Posted by: Grump928(c) says Free Soothie! at August 12, 2016 05:50 PM (evdj2)
458
Posted by: TrivialPursuer at August 12, 2016 05:44 PM (NnYnv)
Don't disagree. Just start with one thing and do it right and then go onto the next.
Don't disagree. Just start with one thing and do it right and then go onto the next.
Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck at August 12, 2016 05:51 PM (fWnjd)
459
So, Grump's plan doesn't seem to include people marrying foreigners.
Do you even read the the site?
Do you even read the the site?
Posted by: Grump928(c) says Free Soothie! at August 12, 2016 05:51 PM (evdj2)
460
440 Posted by: chemjeff at August 12, 2016 05:46 PM (uAvJJ)
You assume, wrongly, that LEO's would not "profile" people by how they look, speak and act. I.E. real world interactions.
Your statement is so removed from real world situations as to be risible.
Thank you.
You assume, wrongly, that LEO's would not "profile" people by how they look, speak and act. I.E. real world interactions.
Your statement is so removed from real world situations as to be risible.
Thank you.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at August 12, 2016 05:51 PM (9P3OG)
461
Precisely who is Facebook's competition?
Posted by: CN at August 12, 2016 05:51 PM (PVXZe)
Posted by: Mister Magoo's at August 12, 2016 05:51 PM (8PrS9)
463
Middle-class is yet another term that has virtually
no meaning. In NYC middle class is as high as 250K a year. Most of the
rest of America would consider that more than middle class.
Posted by: DFCtomm at August 12, 2016 05:36 PM (4PEWr)
Upstate NY (way up) middle class is more like 40K or so...probably more in line with the rest of rural America....
no meaning. In NYC middle class is as high as 250K a year. Most of the
rest of America would consider that more than middle class.
Posted by: DFCtomm at August 12, 2016 05:36 PM (4PEWr)
Upstate NY (way up) middle class is more like 40K or so...probably more in line with the rest of rural America....
Posted by: Colin at August 12, 2016 05:51 PM (tVUA+)
464
Crap..but some people are here only to start fights.
and since it's the same person every thread and every day that should
be obvious
Posted by: Nevergiveup at August 12, 2016 05:46 PM (Ozsfq)
The internet only has two purposes: Arguing with strangers, and porn. If you're looking for compassion turn off your device and never, ever come back.
and since it's the same person every thread and every day that should
be obvious
Posted by: Nevergiveup at August 12, 2016 05:46 PM (Ozsfq)
The internet only has two purposes: Arguing with strangers, and porn. If you're looking for compassion turn off your device and never, ever come back.
Posted by: DFCtomm at August 12, 2016 05:51 PM (4PEWr)
465
>>Some day they'll invent AoS commenting robots to do all our commenting for us.
ace is going to replace us with a bunch of illegal Guatemalans.
ace is going to replace us with a bunch of illegal Guatemalans.
Posted by: JackStraw at August 12, 2016 05:51 PM (/tuJf)
466
>>Absent probable cause (or reasonable suspicion), yeah, they are. The government - largely through the courts, but occasionally by statute - has been very good at obscuring that.
And that is when these people are being stopped. And the pro-illegal immigrant crowd is trying to make questions of citizenship illegal during these stops.
Traffic violations.
Jaywalking.
Loitering.
Licensing.
Suspicious Activities.
Looking like a suspect at large.
...not to mention those caught in overt criminal activities.
I know, the Cops abuse all of these, but that is no reason to preclude them from enforcing the fecking immigration laws when afforded the opportunity.
And that is when these people are being stopped. And the pro-illegal immigrant crowd is trying to make questions of citizenship illegal during these stops.
Traffic violations.
Jaywalking.
Loitering.
Licensing.
Suspicious Activities.
Looking like a suspect at large.
...not to mention those caught in overt criminal activities.
I know, the Cops abuse all of these, but that is no reason to preclude them from enforcing the fecking immigration laws when afforded the opportunity.
Posted by: garrett at August 12, 2016 05:51 PM (c1srJ)
467
452 I'll take a sexbot please.
Posted by: Insomniac
You want a sexbot.
You'll settle for a soxbot.
You'll get a SexyPig.
Posted by: weft cut-loop at August 12, 2016 05:49 PM (9sySV)
Now that's just not nice.
Posted by: Insomniac
You want a sexbot.
You'll settle for a soxbot.
You'll get a SexyPig.
Posted by: weft cut-loop at August 12, 2016 05:49 PM (9sySV)
Now that's just not nice.
Posted by: Insomniac at August 12, 2016 05:51 PM (0mRoj)
468
Some day they'll invent AoS commenting robots to do all our commenting for us.
Posted by: Mister Magoo's
You mean they haven't?
Some day they'll invent AoS commenting robots to do all our commenting for us.
Posted by: Mister Magoo's
You mean they haven't?
Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at August 12, 2016 05:52 PM (IqV8l)
469
Speaking of crap...tonights "farewell" game for A ROD that the Yankees are putting on is going to be nauseating. A lot of lying and looking the other way.
Posted by: Nevergiveup at August 12, 2016 05:52 PM (Ozsfq)
470
Apropos of nothing, my NOS Polish laminate AK furniture is here! I know what I'll be doing tonight.
Polishing your bayonet?
Apropos of nothing, my NOS Polish laminate AK furniture is here! I know what I'll be doing tonight.
Polishing your bayonet?
Posted by: Mister Magoo's at August 12, 2016 05:52 PM (8PrS9)
471
My tablet if you let it becomes a AoSHq commenting robot.
Posted by: Skip at August 12, 2016 05:52 PM (bksJQ)
472
ace is going to replace us with a bunch of illegal Guatemalans.
I always assumed that half of you were illegal Peruvians.
I always assumed that half of you were illegal Peruvians.
Posted by: Grump928(c) says Free Soothie! at August 12, 2016 05:52 PM (evdj2)
473
Apropos of nothing, my NOS Polish laminate AK furniture is here! I know what I'll be doing tonight.
Posted by: Grump928(c) says Free Soothie! at August 12, 2016 05:50 PM (evdj2)
Not IKEA. I tried to put together an IKEA cabinet once.
Either I am more inept than I realized, or Swedes are sadistic bastards.
Posted by: Grump928(c) says Free Soothie! at August 12, 2016 05:50 PM (evdj2)
Not IKEA. I tried to put together an IKEA cabinet once.
Either I am more inept than I realized, or Swedes are sadistic bastards.
Posted by: tubal at August 12, 2016 05:53 PM (d6TTt)
474
From the statement above I have to assume that you believe that
illegal immigrants are to be afforded the rights and privileges of
American citizens.
No, that is not what I'm saying. What I am saying is, if the methods used to catch illegals infringes on the liberties of citizens, then I have a big problem with that. Basically, I don't want a repeat of the Patriot Act, which expanded the surveillance state, and where everyone is forced to go through the kabuki theater of useless TSA screenings in order to find the terrorists.
I absolutely agree that non-citizens don't have the same rights and privileges as citizens. But I do not think the liberties of citizens should be degraded in the course of the hunt for catching illegals.
I hope I have made myself clearer.
From the statement above I have to assume that you believe that
illegal immigrants are to be afforded the rights and privileges of
American citizens.
No, that is not what I'm saying. What I am saying is, if the methods used to catch illegals infringes on the liberties of citizens, then I have a big problem with that. Basically, I don't want a repeat of the Patriot Act, which expanded the surveillance state, and where everyone is forced to go through the kabuki theater of useless TSA screenings in order to find the terrorists.
I absolutely agree that non-citizens don't have the same rights and privileges as citizens. But I do not think the liberties of citizens should be degraded in the course of the hunt for catching illegals.
I hope I have made myself clearer.
Posted by: chemjeff at August 12, 2016 05:53 PM (uAvJJ)
475
I'm pulling the voice-box out of my sexbot.
Posted by: ScoggDog at August 12, 2016 05:53 PM (jyInK)
476
I'm just asking if that's the case, because in another thread, two other commenters said this as well.
Provide the link.
Provide the link.
Posted by: buzzion at August 12, 2016 05:53 PM (bMG0w)
477
For the record Ace. I like you a whole lot better than Noonan and I think she read your bit and it turned a lightbulb on in her head to write accordingly.
I would say to both of you on the issue though to not sweat it.
Win/lose or draw with Trump things are clearly exposed. You have the Trumpist(me) over here and the Cucks (we know who they are) over there.
Never shall the two sides ever cross paths again. I mean seriously. As an example of things to possibly come. Does anyone really expect most people to just hand over they're fire arms because some Cuck backed Hag demands it?
No of course not. It's all good.
I would say to both of you on the issue though to not sweat it.
Win/lose or draw with Trump things are clearly exposed. You have the Trumpist(me) over here and the Cucks (we know who they are) over there.
Never shall the two sides ever cross paths again. I mean seriously. As an example of things to possibly come. Does anyone really expect most people to just hand over they're fire arms because some Cuck backed Hag demands it?
No of course not. It's all good.
Posted by: Drider at August 12, 2016 05:53 PM (6Xbsz)
478
"A pregnant woman can cross the border and deliver her baby in an American hospital and never have to present any papers or insurance or even have to pay the bill. We don't ask proof of citizenship from illegals to enroll in public schools. And we can't even ask people to show ID when they vote, but US citizens go through life routinely being asked for ID for the simplest of transactions. Both of you are building one straw man argument after the next. Every argument you put forth is based on the premise that we are mistreating illegals somehow. The American citizen is never given the benefit of the doubt."
Every argument I put forward about this topic has been to defend the rights of citizens.
You are the person so worried about illegals that you'd prefer a police state, so long as illegals were kept out.
I am fine with voter ID, BTW. On the other worries you have, if its constitutional, I'm fine with that as well.
The straw man you are creating is of my arguments.
Every argument I put forward about this topic has been to defend the rights of citizens.
You are the person so worried about illegals that you'd prefer a police state, so long as illegals were kept out.
I am fine with voter ID, BTW. On the other worries you have, if its constitutional, I'm fine with that as well.
The straw man you are creating is of my arguments.
Posted by: Sexypig at August 12, 2016 05:53 PM (UBBWX)
479
Posted by: Bossy Conservative....outlaw in America at August 12, 2016 05:50 PM (S6Pax)
Good point.
Good point.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at August 12, 2016 05:53 PM (Zu3d9)
480
ace is going to replace us with a bunch of illegal Guatemalans.
Why not. He's already paying them to write posts for him.
ace is going to replace us with a bunch of illegal Guatemalans.
Why not. He's already paying them to write posts for him.
Posted by: Mister Magoo's at August 12, 2016 05:53 PM (8PrS9)
481
If you're looking for compassion turn off your device and never, ever come back.
Posted by: DFCtomm at August 12, 2016 05:51 PM (4PEWr)
If that is directed at me I have no idea what your talking about
Posted by: DFCtomm at August 12, 2016 05:51 PM (4PEWr)
If that is directed at me I have no idea what your talking about
Posted by: Nevergiveup at August 12, 2016 05:53 PM (Ozsfq)
482
Reading comprehension is your friend.
Posted by: Pug Mahon at August 12, 2016 05:53 PM (RwwCT)
483
456
Some day they'll invent AoS commenting robots to do all our commenting for us.
Posted by: Mister Magoo's at August 12, 2016 05:50 PM (8PrS9)
They'll replace us with H1Bs or go offshore.
Some day they'll invent AoS commenting robots to do all our commenting for us.
Posted by: Mister Magoo's at August 12, 2016 05:50 PM (8PrS9)
They'll replace us with H1Bs or go offshore.
Posted by: Insomniac at August 12, 2016 05:54 PM (0mRoj)
484
>>Regardless of the wisdom (or lack thereof) of refusing the LEO's request to show ID, I currently have the liberty to do so. Do you think I ought to have that liberty?
I think you better hope and pray you can spend your next 25 years ensconced in academia.
Because you need that wubby bubble.
I think you better hope and pray you can spend your next 25 years ensconced in academia.
Because you need that wubby bubble.
Posted by: garrett at August 12, 2016 05:54 PM (c1srJ)
485
What Bossy Conservative said re Rand.
I always thought Chambers' famous review was unfair. "To a gas chamber go" was one excellently-framed piece of rhetoric though, I'll give it that. Which is why we're still talking about it almost sixty years later.
I always thought Chambers' famous review was unfair. "To a gas chamber go" was one excellently-framed piece of rhetoric though, I'll give it that. Which is why we're still talking about it almost sixty years later.
Posted by: boulder terlit hobo at August 12, 2016 05:54 PM (6FqZa)
486
@410: "Driving on public roads is a privilege, as we are all aware, and drivers
have to carry licenses and present those to LEO upon request."
Because the government decreed it to be so. A power, like most that it exercises, that it arrogated to itself. It was never in their purview to do so, but hey, no one really opposed it, so.....here were are. Imagine where we will be.
have to carry licenses and present those to LEO upon request."
Because the government decreed it to be so. A power, like most that it exercises, that it arrogated to itself. It was never in their purview to do so, but hey, no one really opposed it, so.....here were are. Imagine where we will be.
Posted by: FaCubeItches at August 12, 2016 05:55 PM (rznWS)
487
It was the same thing back when Jean-Francois Kerry was lecturing the unwashed that terrorism was going to become part of the landscape, to be dealt with as a law enforcement rather than defense issue. Doubt they'll get too many terrorists on Beacon Hill or in Zuckerberg's neighborhood.
Posted by: Zap Branigan at August 12, 2016 05:55 PM (pInIV)
Posted by: Mister Magoo's at August 12, 2016 05:55 PM (8PrS9)
489
A lot of lying and looking the other way.
Posted by: Nevergiveup at August 12, 2016 05:52 PM (Ozsfq)
This is where you and I differ. The Yankees have not comported themselves well.
Posted by: Nevergiveup at August 12, 2016 05:52 PM (Ozsfq)
This is where you and I differ. The Yankees have not comported themselves well.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at August 12, 2016 05:55 PM (Zu3d9)
490
"And, um, they still having the vote -- I assume you are not planning to strip it from them via a Randian measure stating that one must have a college education and clear $90,000 a year to have the right to vote -- why would they just not start voting Democrat en masse?"
Not just Randians, but Constitutional "originalists" will go on about similar measures because of the various property requirements for voting that existed in the various States when the Constitution was written.
After all, that is why the first paragraph of Section I, Article 2 reads:
"The House of Representatives shall be composed of Members chosen every second Year by the People of the several States, and the Electors in each State shall have the Qualifications requisite for Electors of the most numerous Branch of the State Legislature."
"Clearly" there "must" be more qualifications for being an Elector in both State and federal elections than just being 18 years old and a citizen, otherwise "those" people will do something silly.
Like voting for the wrong person who has no chance of winning in the Presidential primary, or voting for The Bern.
Not just Randians, but Constitutional "originalists" will go on about similar measures because of the various property requirements for voting that existed in the various States when the Constitution was written.
After all, that is why the first paragraph of Section I, Article 2 reads:
"The House of Representatives shall be composed of Members chosen every second Year by the People of the several States, and the Electors in each State shall have the Qualifications requisite for Electors of the most numerous Branch of the State Legislature."
"Clearly" there "must" be more qualifications for being an Elector in both State and federal elections than just being 18 years old and a citizen, otherwise "those" people will do something silly.
Like voting for the wrong person who has no chance of winning in the Presidential primary, or voting for The Bern.
Posted by: Sam at August 12, 2016 05:55 PM (x15d2)
491
#445 "they were translating EOBs into 181 languages and the translations had to be perfect"
Was English one of them?
Was English one of them?
Posted by: The Gipper Lives at August 12, 2016 05:55 PM (Ndje9)
492
good one
Posted by: Yan Yanson from Wi. at August 12, 2016 05:55 PM (i8Shl)
493
I always assumed that half of you were illegal Peruvians.
Posted by: Grump928(c) says Free Soothie! at August 12, 2016 05:52 PM (evdj2)
20 % of El Salvador's population lives within the United States. You don't have illegals hiding in your country, you have countries hiding illegally in your country.
Posted by: Grump928(c) says Free Soothie! at August 12, 2016 05:52 PM (evdj2)
20 % of El Salvador's population lives within the United States. You don't have illegals hiding in your country, you have countries hiding illegally in your country.
Posted by: DFCtomm at August 12, 2016 05:55 PM (4PEWr)
494
We got a little rain because of course I watered the garden when Igot home.
Posted by: Skip at August 12, 2016 05:56 PM (bksJQ)
495
buzzion, I already provide today's comment link to two people who want zero immigration without a direct act of congress.
Those two would agree, no foreign wives. "the country is full up!"
You can show me how to search past threads, I will do so. I will also start keep links, like today's.
We have a guy talking about "cucks" a few comments, up, too.
Those two would agree, no foreign wives. "the country is full up!"
You can show me how to search past threads, I will do so. I will also start keep links, like today's.
We have a guy talking about "cucks" a few comments, up, too.
Posted by: Sexypig at August 12, 2016 05:56 PM (UBBWX)
496
"A pregnant woman can cross the border and deliver her baby in an
American hospital and never have to present any papers or insurance or
even have to pay the bill."
Better yet, we currently have pregnant women who are foreign nationals who are coming here to the USA just before term, and delivering Zika babies.
Permanently retarded pinheads, in the literal sense of the slang term "pinhead", with dramatically undersized craniums and malformed brains that will never work beyond an animalistic level, yet who are nevertheless BONA FIDE UNITED STATES CITIZENS IN FULL from the moment that little Zika-Zippy slides out of the birth canal.
To be cared for at public expense for the rest of their natural lives, an undertaking that is presently estimated at several million dollars *each*. Shitfire, wait till they start voting!
American hospital and never have to present any papers or insurance or
even have to pay the bill."
Better yet, we currently have pregnant women who are foreign nationals who are coming here to the USA just before term, and delivering Zika babies.
Permanently retarded pinheads, in the literal sense of the slang term "pinhead", with dramatically undersized craniums and malformed brains that will never work beyond an animalistic level, yet who are nevertheless BONA FIDE UNITED STATES CITIZENS IN FULL from the moment that little Zika-Zippy slides out of the birth canal.
To be cared for at public expense for the rest of their natural lives, an undertaking that is presently estimated at several million dollars *each*. Shitfire, wait till they start voting!
Posted by: torquewrench at August 12, 2016 05:56 PM (noWW6)
497
475 I'm pulling the voice-box out of my sexbot.
Posted by: ScoggDog at August 12, 2016 05:53 PM (jyInK)
Heh. And spring for the cup holders.
Posted by: ScoggDog at August 12, 2016 05:53 PM (jyInK)
Heh. And spring for the cup holders.
Posted by: Insomniac at August 12, 2016 05:57 PM (0mRoj)
498
Keep hearing the U.S. should follow Mexico immigration laws
Posted by: Skip at August 12, 2016 05:57 PM (bksJQ)
499
Some day they'll invent AoS commenting robots to do all our commenting for us.
Posted by: Mister Magoo's at August 12, 2016 05:50 PM
******
Read comments. That day has arrived. All we do is argue with the same few shit-stirrers who offer robotic arguments repetitvely and pretend they aren't virtue signaling and are sincere.
Posted by: Mister Magoo's at August 12, 2016 05:50 PM
******
Read comments. That day has arrived. All we do is argue with the same few shit-stirrers who offer robotic arguments repetitvely and pretend they aren't virtue signaling and are sincere.
Posted by: L, Elle who is patiently waiting for her I Got Banned by Maetenloch t-shirt at August 12, 2016 05:57 PM (6IPEM)
500
488
Indians name "Robert" and "Gwendolyn" will be Ace's new co bloggers.
Posted by: Mister Magoo's at August 12, 2016 05:55 PM (8PrS9)
Lord Baltimore.
Indians name "Robert" and "Gwendolyn" will be Ace's new co bloggers.
Posted by: Mister Magoo's at August 12, 2016 05:55 PM (8PrS9)
Lord Baltimore.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at August 12, 2016 05:57 PM (9P3OG)
501
Has anyone ever analyzed the impracticality of a Star Trek phaser as a sidearm?
The "pistol grip" handle is kinda essential in a sidearm, no?
Phasers have no "handle."
For pete's sake, it's practically like shooting someone with you tv remote! Would you ever win a fight shooting someone with your tv remote? Heck no!
Has anyone ever analyzed the impracticality of a Star Trek phaser as a sidearm?
The "pistol grip" handle is kinda essential in a sidearm, no?
Phasers have no "handle."
For pete's sake, it's practically like shooting someone with you tv remote! Would you ever win a fight shooting someone with your tv remote? Heck no!
Posted by: Mister Magoo's at August 12, 2016 05:57 PM (8PrS9)
502
You assume, wrongly, that LEO's would not "profile" people by how they look, speak and act. I.E. real world interactions.
Your statement is so removed from real world situations as to be risible.
Thank you.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at August 12, 2016 05:51 PM (9P3OG)
Well that would lead to an instant "racial profiling" lawsuit. So it seems reasonable that it would instead lead to something like what we have now with the TSA, where they insist on screening and patting down every single passesnger as if they were "potential terrorists", even grandmas and babies.
You assume, wrongly, that LEO's would not "profile" people by how they look, speak and act. I.E. real world interactions.
Your statement is so removed from real world situations as to be risible.
Thank you.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at August 12, 2016 05:51 PM (9P3OG)
Well that would lead to an instant "racial profiling" lawsuit. So it seems reasonable that it would instead lead to something like what we have now with the TSA, where they insist on screening and patting down every single passesnger as if they were "potential terrorists", even grandmas and babies.
Posted by: chemjeff at August 12, 2016 05:57 PM (uAvJJ)
503
Some day they'll invent AoS commenting robots to do all our commenting for us.
I...really shouldn't riff off this.
I...really shouldn't riff off this.
Posted by: Brother Cavil, down with Eph 6:12-13 at August 12, 2016 05:58 PM (9krrF)
504
An end game question for Cucks/globalists.
When they end up taking over the citizen's 401k/money market accounts at a guaranteed rate of 3% is that kid of like a big win orrrr, what?
When they end up taking over the citizen's 401k/money market accounts at a guaranteed rate of 3% is that kid of like a big win orrrr, what?
Posted by: Drider at August 12, 2016 05:58 PM (6Xbsz)
505
Ace...Perfection. Could not state it better.
Our political / corporate elite should do a little reading about last 100 years of the Roman Republic. They should really look at the part when Roman consuls talked their blue-collar legions into helping them seize power. In return they promised to hook up those legionaries with lands and money.
That is what happens when you spend all day in the Senate house going on about Republican virtue, while you screw your slaves and spend the money from those new conquests and tell the legions who won those conquests they get nothing...not a good move...
Our political / corporate elite should do a little reading about last 100 years of the Roman Republic. They should really look at the part when Roman consuls talked their blue-collar legions into helping them seize power. In return they promised to hook up those legionaries with lands and money.
That is what happens when you spend all day in the Senate house going on about Republican virtue, while you screw your slaves and spend the money from those new conquests and tell the legions who won those conquests they get nothing...not a good move...
Posted by: William Eaton at August 12, 2016 05:58 PM (KhJh8)
506
A lot of lying and looking the other way.
Posted by: Nevergiveup at August 12, 2016 05:52 PM (Ozsfq)
This is where you and I differ. The Yankees have not comported themselves well.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at August 12, 2016 05:55 PM (Zu3d9)
I don't disagree with that...they started out, it "appeared" to be acting like gentleman, but it all went to crap. And it went to crap because, in the end neither side really meant what they were saying. I think basically they both still really hate each other and it is showing. I just think it will be more of the same phony bullshit tonight.
Posted by: Nevergiveup at August 12, 2016 05:52 PM (Ozsfq)
This is where you and I differ. The Yankees have not comported themselves well.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at August 12, 2016 05:55 PM (Zu3d9)
I don't disagree with that...they started out, it "appeared" to be acting like gentleman, but it all went to crap. And it went to crap because, in the end neither side really meant what they were saying. I think basically they both still really hate each other and it is showing. I just think it will be more of the same phony bullshit tonight.
Posted by: Nevergiveup at August 12, 2016 05:58 PM (Ozsfq)
507
Those two would agree, no foreign wives. "the country is full up!"
You can show me how to search past threads, I will do so. I will also start keep links, like today's.
We have a guy talking about "cucks" a few comments, up, too.
Posted by: Sexypig at August 12, 2016 05:56 PM (UBBWX)
dying to know what you are going to do with all of that
You can show me how to search past threads, I will do so. I will also start keep links, like today's.
We have a guy talking about "cucks" a few comments, up, too.
Posted by: Sexypig at August 12, 2016 05:56 PM (UBBWX)
dying to know what you are going to do with all of that
Posted by: runner at August 12, 2016 05:58 PM (c6/9Q)
Posted by: Grump928(c) says Free Soothie! at August 12, 2016 05:58 PM (evdj2)
509
Another excellent essay, ace. You've been doing great work the last few days.
Posted by: BeckoningChasm at August 12, 2016 05:59 PM (AroJD)
510
498 Keep hearing the U.S. should follow Mexico immigration laws
Posted by: Skip at August 12, 2016 05:57 PM (bksJQ)
Oh hell yeah. But seriously, if we just followed our own laws to the letter, applied with equal veracity and frequency to illegals and people who hire them, we would have no problems whatsoever.
Oh yeah, almost forgot; cut off Uncle Sugar too.
Posted by: Skip at August 12, 2016 05:57 PM (bksJQ)
Oh hell yeah. But seriously, if we just followed our own laws to the letter, applied with equal veracity and frequency to illegals and people who hire them, we would have no problems whatsoever.
Oh yeah, almost forgot; cut off Uncle Sugar too.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at August 12, 2016 05:59 PM (9P3OG)
511
I don't help those I don't respect. You make the assertion. You provide the link. BTW you dishonest little shit, one of those people who you claim said that told you to go pound sand already with your bullshit twisting of their words to fit in your false fantasy of what is being said.
So provide the link or go screw yourself.
So provide the link or go screw yourself.
Posted by: buzzion at August 12, 2016 05:59 PM (bMG0w)
Posted by: Lauren at August 12, 2016 05:59 PM (hW3u1)
513
Mr. Magoo at 447: "Chiappa Rhino .357 revolver. Check it out."
I own one. Great shooter -- no muzzle flip. Very unusual ergonomics, but it's a fun, accurate revolver. A lot of fun with 38 specials -- like shooting a 22 but with a much more satisfying thump downrange.
I was thinking about sending a photo in to whoever does the weekly gun thread.
I own one. Great shooter -- no muzzle flip. Very unusual ergonomics, but it's a fun, accurate revolver. A lot of fun with 38 specials -- like shooting a 22 but with a much more satisfying thump downrange.
I was thinking about sending a photo in to whoever does the weekly gun thread.
Posted by: Pastafarian at August 12, 2016 05:59 PM (sgHEm)
514
Profiling is the ONLY way law enforcement can really work, except of course, in Fantasy Land in Orlando.
Posted by: Nevergiveup at August 12, 2016 05:59 PM (Ozsfq)
515
"[T]he people of your country are not your countrymen,"
There is a shorthand for these people that is used at Belmont Club. TWANLOC, Those who are no longer our countrymen.
There is a shorthand for these people that is used at Belmont Club. TWANLOC, Those who are no longer our countrymen.
Posted by: geoffb5 at August 12, 2016 05:59 PM (d3wbb)
516
I wonder ... if I made a Love Child with a hot South American chic who contracted Zika ... would said child be born with a head proportionally smaller than my own - that is, a normal sized head ?
Hmmm ...
Hmmm ...
Posted by: ScoggDog at August 12, 2016 06:00 PM (jyInK)
Posted by: Mister Magoo's at August 12, 2016 06:00 PM (8PrS9)
518
>>Some day they'll invent AoS commenting robots to do all our commenting for us
Will it serve Frozen Yogurt, too?
Because I think we could franchise that.
Will it serve Frozen Yogurt, too?
Because I think we could franchise that.
Posted by: garrett at August 12, 2016 06:00 PM (c1srJ)
519
"A pregnant woman can cross the border and deliver her baby in an American hospital and never have to present any papers or insurance or even have to pay the bill."
I'm seeing a future SAT question in that:
A pregnant woman crosses the border at four miles per hour, dilated to six centimeters. The hospital is four miles away. Assuming she continues her current course and speed and continues to dilate at three centimeters per hour, what name will she give her son?
I'm seeing a future SAT question in that:
A pregnant woman crosses the border at four miles per hour, dilated to six centimeters. The hospital is four miles away. Assuming she continues her current course and speed and continues to dilate at three centimeters per hour, what name will she give her son?
Posted by: free range 'sorta' conservative but not 'true' conservative at August 12, 2016 06:01 PM (ZnIt3)
520
Posted by: Skip at August 12, 2016 05:57 PM (bksJQ)
That would be racist.
That would be racist.
Posted by: CaliGirl at August 12, 2016 06:01 PM (fsFHj)
Posted by: Nevergiveup at August 12, 2016 06:01 PM (Ozsfq)
522
"[T]he people of your country are not your countrymen,""
Well I sure wont be doing any countrymanning with then thar Cucks. We've come to faaarrrrr!
Well I sure wont be doing any countrymanning with then thar Cucks. We've come to faaarrrrr!
Posted by: Drider at August 12, 2016 06:01 PM (6Xbsz)
Posted by: Grump928(c) says Free Soothie! at August 12, 2016 06:01 PM (evdj2)
524
the iMoron will automatically post all your usual comments and arguments in all the AoS threads.
the iMoron will automatically post all your usual comments and arguments in all the AoS threads.
Posted by: Mister Magoo's at August 12, 2016 06:01 PM (8PrS9)
525
Will it serve Frozen Yogurt, too?
Because I think we could franchise that.
Posted by: garrett
Unforts, it serves Frozen People.
Because I think we could franchise that.
Posted by: garrett
Unforts, it serves Frozen People.
Posted by: weft cut-loop at August 12, 2016 06:01 PM (9sySV)
526
Put it into catpiss's spreadsheet?
Posted by: Lauren at August 12, 2016 05:59 PM (hW3u1)
is it "a thing" these days ? just cant keep up
Posted by: Lauren at August 12, 2016 05:59 PM (hW3u1)
is it "a thing" these days ? just cant keep up
Posted by: runner at August 12, 2016 06:02 PM (c6/9Q)
527
416 "In what way, shape or form would they? Show your work."
An example was already provided.
Are you saying you'd support checking random people on the street for papers, to catch illegals?
Posted by: Sexypig at August 12, 2016 05:41 PM (UBBWX)
++++
Loitering is a crimes in many cities. So, if law enforcement were to go do something about the group of 10-20 young, latino males loitering on the boulevard in front of the Home Depot, that would be a situation where law enforcement would be justified in ID'ing the suspects. And shipping them out if they are not here legally.
An example was already provided.
Are you saying you'd support checking random people on the street for papers, to catch illegals?
Posted by: Sexypig at August 12, 2016 05:41 PM (UBBWX)
++++
Loitering is a crimes in many cities. So, if law enforcement were to go do something about the group of 10-20 young, latino males loitering on the boulevard in front of the Home Depot, that would be a situation where law enforcement would be justified in ID'ing the suspects. And shipping them out if they are not here legally.
Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at August 12, 2016 06:02 PM (R+30W)
528
502 Well that would lead to an instant "racial profiling" lawsuit. So it seems reasonable that it would instead lead to something like what we have now with the TSA, where they insist on screening and patting down every single passesnger as if they were "potential terrorists", even grandmas and babies.
Posted by: chemjeff at August 12, 2016 05:57 PM (uAvJJ)
Are you arguing hypotheticals or real world situations. You seem to shift with great rapidity between the two.
In the past, we were very good at catching and deporting illegal aliens. Truman got rid of 6 million and Ike got rid of 5. All without national ID cards and all with conventional LEOs.
If we went back to that, your "concern" for the impracticality of having everyone carry their papers would be obviated.
What IS your point? I mean overall? Get to it.
Posted by: chemjeff at August 12, 2016 05:57 PM (uAvJJ)
Are you arguing hypotheticals or real world situations. You seem to shift with great rapidity between the two.
In the past, we were very good at catching and deporting illegal aliens. Truman got rid of 6 million and Ike got rid of 5. All without national ID cards and all with conventional LEOs.
If we went back to that, your "concern" for the impracticality of having everyone carry their papers would be obviated.
What IS your point? I mean overall? Get to it.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at August 12, 2016 06:02 PM (9P3OG)
529
But seriously, if we just followed our own laws to the letter, applied
with equal veracity and frequency to illegals and people who hire them,
we would have no problems whatsoever.
Right now, E-Verify is optional. Should it be made mandatory?
with equal veracity and frequency to illegals and people who hire them,
we would have no problems whatsoever.
Right now, E-Verify is optional. Should it be made mandatory?
Posted by: chemjeff at August 12, 2016 06:02 PM (uAvJJ)
530
"All we do is argue with the same few shit-stirrers who offer robotic
arguments repetitvely and pretend they aren't virtue signaling and are
sincere."
Your refusal to respond to my thirty-seventh iteration of the same discredited straw-man argument proves I'm right! Eleventy!
arguments repetitvely and pretend they aren't virtue signaling and are
sincere."
Your refusal to respond to my thirty-seventh iteration of the same discredited straw-man argument proves I'm right! Eleventy!
Posted by: torquewrench at August 12, 2016 06:03 PM (noWW6)
531
I thought curious / petunia slunk off after Mario Rubio got paddled in the primaries. She back again?
Posted by: boulder terlit hobo at August 12, 2016 06:03 PM (6FqZa)
532
I was thinking about sending a photo in to whoever does the weekly gun thread.
Hey, there's an idea. Like the pet thread.
In fact,
a Gun 'n Pet thread crossover!
I was thinking about sending a photo in to whoever does the weekly gun thread.
Hey, there's an idea. Like the pet thread.
In fact,
a Gun 'n Pet thread crossover!
Posted by: Mister Magoo's at August 12, 2016 06:03 PM (8PrS9)
533
Everybody knows who the illegals are and where they congregate in every town.
Posted by: Nevergiveup at August 12, 2016 06:03 PM (Ozsfq)
Posted by: Mister Magoo's at August 12, 2016 06:03 PM (8PrS9)
535
Introducing the...
iMoron
Posted by: Mister Magoo's at August 12, 2016 06:00 PM (8PrS9)
great styling, crappy battery life
iMoron
Posted by: Mister Magoo's at August 12, 2016 06:00 PM (8PrS9)
great styling, crappy battery life
Posted by: runner at August 12, 2016 06:03 PM (c6/9Q)
536
>>The Yogurt is cursed. But it comes with sprinkles
Simpsons, ftw.
Always thought Ace was more Mogwai than Ewok.
Simpsons, ftw.
Always thought Ace was more Mogwai than Ewok.
Posted by: garrett at August 12, 2016 06:03 PM (c1srJ)
Posted by: Mister Magoo's at August 12, 2016 06:04 PM (8PrS9)
538
This is why I think it so unfortunate that Bill Kristol is such a ardent never trumper. Of all the neo-cons Kristol pere and fils understood that politics is about coalitions and that if you want support for Israel etc. you need to support the other legs of the stool as well. Additionally they both seem the truly appreciate how important secularized religious values were for capitalism etc.
Posted by: Sam Haysom at August 12, 2016 06:04 PM (4v2Bk)
539
So it seems reasonable that it would instead lead to
something like what we have now with the TSA, where they insist on
screening and patting down every single passesnger as if they were
"potential terrorists", even grandmas and babies.
Posted by: chemjeff at August 12, 2016 05:57 PM (uAvJJ)
Strawman: a logical or rhetorical fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while
actually refuting an argument that was not advanced by that opponent.
http://tinyurl.com/hx52cmh
something like what we have now with the TSA, where they insist on
screening and patting down every single passesnger as if they were
"potential terrorists", even grandmas and babies.
Posted by: chemjeff at August 12, 2016 05:57 PM (uAvJJ)
Strawman: a logical or rhetorical fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while
actually refuting an argument that was not advanced by that opponent.
http://tinyurl.com/hx52cmh
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at August 12, 2016 06:04 PM (Zu3d9)
540
To love their country has been considered as virtue in men, whose love could not be otherwise than blind, because their preference was made without, a comparison; but it has never been my fortune to find, either in ancient or modern writers, any honourable mention of those, who have, with equal blindness, hated their country.
Sincerely,
Sincerely,
Posted by: Samuel Johnson at August 12, 2016 06:04 PM (Ndje9)
541
Oh boy. Hope Solo had unleashed a shitstorm after the loss today.
Said the better team lost. Said the Swedish team played cowardly. Not pretty.
Said the better team lost. Said the Swedish team played cowardly. Not pretty.
Posted by: because there's not enough Hope on this thread at August 12, 2016 06:04 PM (H9MG5)
542
JackStraw at 453: Well-stated, better than I could.
I think this immigration problem needs to be solved at the same time, in a "comprehensive" way, with the problems of protectionism for some products, but not for others; China's flouting of fair trade rules by subsidizing critical manufacturing; and China's pegging of the yuan.
It all has to be done of-one-piece, or not at all. We address just one, and not the others, and we'll end up with $14 cans of tomatoes.
I think this immigration problem needs to be solved at the same time, in a "comprehensive" way, with the problems of protectionism for some products, but not for others; China's flouting of fair trade rules by subsidizing critical manufacturing; and China's pegging of the yuan.
It all has to be done of-one-piece, or not at all. We address just one, and not the others, and we'll end up with $14 cans of tomatoes.
Posted by: Pastafarian at August 12, 2016 06:04 PM (sgHEm)
543
I would start with E-Verify and go from there
Posted by: Skip at August 12, 2016 06:05 PM (bksJQ)
544
is it "a thing" these days ? just cant keep up
I'm the next big thing. Also wide. And deep.
Call me.
I'm the next big thing. Also wide. And deep.
Call me.
Posted by: Hope Solo's Anus at August 12, 2016 06:05 PM (jyInK)
545
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at August 12, 2016 05:59 PM (9P3OG)
My fantasy proposal. No benefits.
My fantasy proposal. No benefits.
Posted by: CaliGirl at August 12, 2016 06:05 PM (fsFHj)
546
537
Dogs 'n Rods?
Cats 'n Gats?
Posted by: Mister Magoo's at August 12, 2016 06:04 PM (8PrS9)
Hedgehogs and ? Oops.
Dogs 'n Rods?
Cats 'n Gats?
Posted by: Mister Magoo's at August 12, 2016 06:04 PM (8PrS9)
Hedgehogs and ? Oops.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at August 12, 2016 06:05 PM (9P3OG)
547
534
You pose your pets with your guns!
Posted by: Mister Magoo's at August 12, 2016 06:03 PM (8PrS9)
I have no pets so I'll just have to pose my guns with more of my guns.
You pose your pets with your guns!
Posted by: Mister Magoo's at August 12, 2016 06:03 PM (8PrS9)
I have no pets so I'll just have to pose my guns with more of my guns.
Posted by: Insomniac at August 12, 2016 06:05 PM (0mRoj)
548
a Gun 'n Pet thread crossover!
Posted by: Mister Magoo's at August 12, 2016 06:03 PM (8PrS9)
Do you shoot the pet?
Posted by: Mister Magoo's at August 12, 2016 06:03 PM (8PrS9)
Do you shoot the pet?
Posted by: DFCtomm at August 12, 2016 06:05 PM (4PEWr)
549
"[M]anaging the passions of their unaccomplished underlings"
There is an older term for what this entails, it is brainwashing, and has been the ongoing concern of the entire public education establishment since at least the late 70s. That there is a sharp political distinction between those with undergrad degrees or less and those with graduate degrees is a function of how long it takes for the brainwashing to be totally effective. And the selection that takes place in who gets into grad school.
There is an older term for what this entails, it is brainwashing, and has been the ongoing concern of the entire public education establishment since at least the late 70s. That there is a sharp political distinction between those with undergrad degrees or less and those with graduate degrees is a function of how long it takes for the brainwashing to be totally effective. And the selection that takes place in who gets into grad school.
Posted by: geoffb5 at August 12, 2016 06:05 PM (d3wbb)
550
Posted by: Sexypig at August 12, 2016 05:56 PM (UBBWX)
Current estimates are that over 20% of people in the US, are foreign born, when you include illegals.
NO Society can assimilate that amount of immigrants, especially when they self segregate...
My home town is a case in point. When I was born here 57 years ago it was 75% White... it is now 26.8% White according to the last Census.
That's not immigration.... its a migration... or an invasion...
I see no problem at all with a Pause in immigration until the current immigrants assimilate...
Posted by: Sexypig at August 12, 2016 05:56 PM (UBBWX)
Current estimates are that over 20% of people in the US, are foreign born, when you include illegals.
NO Society can assimilate that amount of immigrants, especially when they self segregate...
My home town is a case in point. When I was born here 57 years ago it was 75% White... it is now 26.8% White according to the last Census.
That's not immigration.... its a migration... or an invasion...
I see no problem at all with a Pause in immigration until the current immigrants assimilate...
Posted by: Don Q. at August 12, 2016 06:06 PM (qf6WZ)
551
This is why I think it so unfortunate that Bill Kristol is such a ardent never trumper. Of all the neo-cons Kristol pere and fils understood that politics is about coalitions and that if you want support for Israel etc. you need to support the other legs of the stool as well. Additionally they both seem the truly appreciate how important secularized religious values were for capitalism etc.
Posted by: Sam Haysom at August 12, 2016 06:04 PM (4v2Bk)
THIS is why i hate the term neocon. it is a tag that is just used to smear people and all to often has anti-semitic undertones ( not sure if that is the case here). It is a group smear that is thrown out there.
Posted by: Sam Haysom at August 12, 2016 06:04 PM (4v2Bk)
THIS is why i hate the term neocon. it is a tag that is just used to smear people and all to often has anti-semitic undertones ( not sure if that is the case here). It is a group smear that is thrown out there.
Posted by: Nevergiveup at August 12, 2016 06:06 PM (Ozsfq)
552
Posted by: Pastafarian at August 12, 2016 06:04 PM (sgHEm)
We definitely need a better H2A program.
We definitely need a better H2A program.
Posted by: CaliGirl at August 12, 2016 06:06 PM (fsFHj)
553
Dogs & Rods could be a thing. Like a calender. Or a blog.
Imagine all the Leftists we could piss off.
Dogs & Rods could be a thing. Like a calender. Or a blog.
Imagine all the Leftists we could piss off.
Posted by: Mister Magoo's at August 12, 2016 06:06 PM (8PrS9)
554
543 I would start with E-Verify and go from there
Posted by: Skip at August 12, 2016 06:05 PM (bksJQ)
++++
Fun fact:
If a company does decide to use e-verify in it employment practices, it is illegal for them to use it to look up current employees. They are only allowed to use it for new hires.
Posted by: Skip at August 12, 2016 06:05 PM (bksJQ)
++++
Fun fact:
If a company does decide to use e-verify in it employment practices, it is illegal for them to use it to look up current employees. They are only allowed to use it for new hires.
Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at August 12, 2016 06:06 PM (R+30W)
555
548 a Gun 'n Pet thread crossover!
Posted by: Mister Magoo's at August 12, 2016 06:03 PM (8PrS9)
Do you shoot the pet?
Posted by: DFCtomm at August 12, 2016 06:05 PM (4PEWr)
Only if you're a LEO.
Posted by: Mister Magoo's at August 12, 2016 06:03 PM (8PrS9)
Do you shoot the pet?
Posted by: DFCtomm at August 12, 2016 06:05 PM (4PEWr)
Only if you're a LEO.
Posted by: Insomniac at August 12, 2016 06:07 PM (0mRoj)
Posted by: Carlos Danger at August 12, 2016 06:07 PM (c1srJ)
557
There is a shorthand for these people that is used at Belmont Club. TWANLOC, Those who are no longer our countrymen.
Posted by: geoffb5
That was, I think, an acronym invented by Subotai Bahadur (name of a general who served the Great Khan....KHAAAAN), who is actually of Chinese ancestry and was a LEO in Colorado before he retired. I think that's right.
TWANLOC: Those Who Are No Longer Our Countrymen
Some guy whose ancestors were from China a couple of generations back gets America better than a lot of college know-it-alls. America is an idea and an attitude, more than a place; although the place is real and is pretty appealing in most ways. I have a work friend in Singapore, who was born there (ethnic Chinese) and went to school in the US and worked here a long time, who also "gets" America better than some of our so-called Elites. We have late night Skype debates about the election occasionally. He really likes Trump. It's a weird world.
Posted by: geoffb5
That was, I think, an acronym invented by Subotai Bahadur (name of a general who served the Great Khan....KHAAAAN), who is actually of Chinese ancestry and was a LEO in Colorado before he retired. I think that's right.
TWANLOC: Those Who Are No Longer Our Countrymen
Some guy whose ancestors were from China a couple of generations back gets America better than a lot of college know-it-alls. America is an idea and an attitude, more than a place; although the place is real and is pretty appealing in most ways. I have a work friend in Singapore, who was born there (ethnic Chinese) and went to school in the US and worked here a long time, who also "gets" America better than some of our so-called Elites. We have late night Skype debates about the election occasionally. He really likes Trump. It's a weird world.
Posted by: Bossy Conservative....outlaw in America at August 12, 2016 06:07 PM (S6Pax)
558
Oh boy. Hope Solo had unleashed a shitstorm after the loss today.
Said the better team lost. Said the Swedish team played cowardly. Not pretty.
Posted by: because there's not enough Hope on this thread at August 12, 2016 06:04 PM (H9MG5)
yeah I was sorry to see that. As many know here I watched the whole game and Sweden played a very smart game and won fair and square.
Said the better team lost. Said the Swedish team played cowardly. Not pretty.
Posted by: because there's not enough Hope on this thread at August 12, 2016 06:04 PM (H9MG5)
yeah I was sorry to see that. As many know here I watched the whole game and Sweden played a very smart game and won fair and square.
Posted by: Nevergiveup at August 12, 2016 06:07 PM (Ozsfq)
559
We shoot the pet if it's gonna be food. We are not wasteful, after all.
We shoot the pet if it's gonna be food. We are not wasteful, after all.
Posted by: Mister Magoo's at August 12, 2016 06:08 PM (8PrS9)
560
>>>Dogs 'n Rods?
Cats 'n Gats?
Posted by: Mister Magoo's at August 12, 2016 06:04 PM (8PrS9)
Hedgehogs and ? Oops.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at August 12, 2016 06:05 PM (9P3OG)<<<
Colts n' Colts.
Cats 'n Gats?
Posted by: Mister Magoo's at August 12, 2016 06:04 PM (8PrS9)
Hedgehogs and ? Oops.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at August 12, 2016 06:05 PM (9P3OG)<<<
Colts n' Colts.
Posted by: zombie Samuel Colt, riding a horse at August 12, 2016 06:08 PM (H9MG5)
561
Rick223 agreed with this.
What fucking part of illegal immigrant are you having trouble understanding?
And yes. Close the current borders. We don't HAVE to allow anyone in.
What fucking part of illegal immigrant are you having trouble understanding?
And yes. Close the current borders. We don't HAVE to allow anyone in.
Posted by: rickb223 TEXIT at August 12, 2016 06:08 PM (UYkjZ)
562
Do the pictures have to be of guns and pets ?
Posted by: Hope Solo at August 12, 2016 06:08 PM (jyInK)
563
Put it into catpiss's spreadsheet?
Say what you will about that 'curious' entity, and I said plenty, she was wired into the whole Pope> barber> resigning thing.
Though I'm not so much sure he resigned as was placed under house arrest during a leftist coup.
Say what you will about that 'curious' entity, and I said plenty, she was wired into the whole Pope> barber> resigning thing.
Though I'm not so much sure he resigned as was placed under house arrest during a leftist coup.
Posted by: free range 'sorta' conservative but not 'true' conservative at August 12, 2016 06:09 PM (ZnIt3)
Posted by: Mister Magoo's at August 12, 2016 06:09 PM (8PrS9)
565
We could have a guns and laundry thread called Glocks and Socks.
Posted by: Insomniac at August 12, 2016 06:09 PM (0mRoj)
566
THIS is why i hate the term neocon.
Posted by: Nevergiveup at August 12, 2016 06:06 PM (Ozsfq)
And a fair number of people who use it are being purposefully opaque because they don't want to say what they really mean, which is, "fvcking kikes."
Posted by: Nevergiveup at August 12, 2016 06:06 PM (Ozsfq)
And a fair number of people who use it are being purposefully opaque because they don't want to say what they really mean, which is, "fvcking kikes."
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at August 12, 2016 06:09 PM (Zu3d9)
567
What IS your point? I mean overall? Get to it.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at August 12, 2016 06:02 PM (9P3OG)
Well, this is not the same country as the 1950's.
My overall point, is that I am very worried that greater enforcement of immigration laws will lead to essentially inverting the burden of proof which will diminish our liberties even more. We see that with the whole Patriot Act/TSA crap. Before that, the government had to prove that you were a dangerous person before stopping you from flying. Now, we citizens have to demonstrate that we are NOT dangerous before they ALLOW us to fly. It is the same with the "structuring" crap with bank deposits. Before the whole "structuring" nonsense, it was the government's burden to prove that someone was acting wrongly in a financial sense before doing something about it. Now, the burden is on citizens to justify why they might be making small deposits in possible circumvention of the law. This is happening more and more, and it deeply troubles me.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at August 12, 2016 06:02 PM (9P3OG)
Well, this is not the same country as the 1950's.
My overall point, is that I am very worried that greater enforcement of immigration laws will lead to essentially inverting the burden of proof which will diminish our liberties even more. We see that with the whole Patriot Act/TSA crap. Before that, the government had to prove that you were a dangerous person before stopping you from flying. Now, we citizens have to demonstrate that we are NOT dangerous before they ALLOW us to fly. It is the same with the "structuring" crap with bank deposits. Before the whole "structuring" nonsense, it was the government's burden to prove that someone was acting wrongly in a financial sense before doing something about it. Now, the burden is on citizens to justify why they might be making small deposits in possible circumvention of the law. This is happening more and more, and it deeply troubles me.
Posted by: chemjeff at August 12, 2016 06:09 PM (uAvJJ)
568
Said the better team lost. Said the Swedish team played cowardly. Not pretty.
Posted by: because there's not enough Hope on this thread
Sooo.... you're saying she's being a bit of an ass.
Posted by: because there's not enough Hope on this thread
Sooo.... you're saying she's being a bit of an ass.
Posted by: Pug Mahon at August 12, 2016 06:09 PM (RwwCT)
569
>> Oh boy. Hope Solo had unleashed a shitstorm after the loss today.
>Said the better team lost. Said the Swedish team played cowardly. Not pretty.
Did she fart in the general direction, too?
Did it make a sound?
>Said the better team lost. Said the Swedish team played cowardly. Not pretty.
Did she fart in the general direction, too?
Did it make a sound?
Posted by: garrett at August 12, 2016 06:09 PM (c1srJ)
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at August 12, 2016 06:10 PM (Zu3d9)
Posted by: JackStraw at August 12, 2016 06:10 PM (/tuJf)
572
Can we set them on fire now? Then poke them with sharp sticks? Hard enough that it will cause them something more than mild discomfort?
Posted by: southdakotaboy at August 12, 2016 06:10 PM (w+Vw9)
573
You don't need a traffic-stop like interdiction of illegal aliens.
Start with a few things like these:
Sanctuary cities are curbed. Withdraw funding, withdraw fed agency support and aid.
get eVerify to actually work, and have H1B-reliant companies are audited quarterly. Remember the law actually states H1B is not a method to reduce your payroll expense.
Uni's are responsible for any and all 'students' that fail to report.
The point being you don't need routine 'Hallspass, bitte!' type enforcement. Our stupidly complex age has so much interaction with the State that there's no end to the opportunity for reminding guests that they need to obey the law.
Start with a few things like these:
Sanctuary cities are curbed. Withdraw funding, withdraw fed agency support and aid.
get eVerify to actually work, and have H1B-reliant companies are audited quarterly. Remember the law actually states H1B is not a method to reduce your payroll expense.
Uni's are responsible for any and all 'students' that fail to report.
The point being you don't need routine 'Hallspass, bitte!' type enforcement. Our stupidly complex age has so much interaction with the State that there's no end to the opportunity for reminding guests that they need to obey the law.
Posted by: weft cut-loop at August 12, 2016 06:11 PM (9sySV)
574
Now, the burden is on citizens to justify why they might be making small deposits in possible circumvention of the law
$10,000 is small? Well maybe to Moo Moo?
$10,000 is small? Well maybe to Moo Moo?
Posted by: Nevergiveup at August 12, 2016 06:11 PM (Ozsfq)
575
566 THIS is why i hate the term neocon.
Posted by: Nevergiveup at August 12, 2016 06:06 PM (Ozsfq)
And a fair number of people who use it are being purposefully opaque because they don't want to say what they really mean, which is, "fvcking kikes."
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at August 12, 2016 06:09 PM (Zu3d9)
Well, you're certainly the expert in such things, you anti-Semite you.
Posted by: Nevergiveup at August 12, 2016 06:06 PM (Ozsfq)
And a fair number of people who use it are being purposefully opaque because they don't want to say what they really mean, which is, "fvcking kikes."
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at August 12, 2016 06:09 PM (Zu3d9)
Well, you're certainly the expert in such things, you anti-Semite you.
Posted by: Insomniac at August 12, 2016 06:11 PM (0mRoj)
576
>>>We could have a guns and laundry thread called Glocks and Socks.
Posted by: Insomniac at August 12, 2016 06:09 PM (0mRoj)<<<
We could do one with home made time pieces and improvised explosi... er, guns.
Clocks n' Glocks.
Posted by: Insomniac at August 12, 2016 06:09 PM (0mRoj)<<<
We could do one with home made time pieces and improvised explosi... er, guns.
Clocks n' Glocks.
Posted by: Clockboy at August 12, 2016 06:11 PM (H9MG5)
577
Posted by: Bossy Conservative....outlaw in America at August 12, 2016 06:07 PM (S6Pax)
I know someone that has the same background. Came here by himself when he was 17. Started as a dishwasher, worked his way up and now owns a successful produce business in Houston.
Didn't speak English when he arrived either, went to school to learn English.
Very successful.
I know someone that has the same background. Came here by himself when he was 17. Started as a dishwasher, worked his way up and now owns a successful produce business in Houston.
Didn't speak English when he arrived either, went to school to learn English.
Very successful.
Posted by: CaliGirl at August 12, 2016 06:11 PM (fsFHj)
578
Not all of us arrive to the same conclusions at once. So if Noonan gets it, well, I'll take it. She has got a bigger horn than us peons.
Not all of us arrive to the same conclusions at once. So if Noonan gets it, well, I'll take it. She has got a bigger horn than us peons.
Posted by: Levin at August 12, 2016 06:11 PM (mgl7C)
579
Powerline has a local (for them) story up about a Somali woman who just won the Dim nomination for a seat in the state legislature.
Of course, all the prog newspapers in Minnesota are orgasmic over this "historic first."
Problem is that this Somali chick has been engaging in welfare and marriage fraud. A few years ago, she married her Somali brother (even though she was already married to somebody else). The marriage was just to get brother a green card, so he could mooch off U.S. taxpayers (which he did).
But yes, it's certainly a happy day in America when a law-breaking Somali muslim gets voted into political office. No wonder the Minnesota papers are so happy!
Of course, all the prog newspapers in Minnesota are orgasmic over this "historic first."
Problem is that this Somali chick has been engaging in welfare and marriage fraud. A few years ago, she married her Somali brother (even though she was already married to somebody else). The marriage was just to get brother a green card, so he could mooch off U.S. taxpayers (which he did).
But yes, it's certainly a happy day in America when a law-breaking Somali muslim gets voted into political office. No wonder the Minnesota papers are so happy!
Posted by: TrivialPursuer at August 12, 2016 06:11 PM (NnYnv)
580
395 I'll take a sexbot please.
Posted by: Insomniac at August 12, 2016 05:36 PM (0mRoj)
Yeah, I bet they're high maintenance.
Posted by: tubal at August 12, 2016 05:38 PM (d6TTt)
That raises a question in my mind: how often does the oil have to be changed on the Hillarybot?
(There was a time when getting your oil changed was a way of referring to having sex. Only Huma could answer that question about the Hillarybot.)
Posted by: Insomniac at August 12, 2016 05:36 PM (0mRoj)
Yeah, I bet they're high maintenance.
Posted by: tubal at August 12, 2016 05:38 PM (d6TTt)
That raises a question in my mind: how often does the oil have to be changed on the Hillarybot?
(There was a time when getting your oil changed was a way of referring to having sex. Only Huma could answer that question about the Hillarybot.)
Posted by: Northernlurker at August 12, 2016 06:11 PM (hJrjt)
581
To give Hope Solo credit, she did explain (at length) how the Swedes played. They turned in a purely defensive game, apparently. Back in England we used to make fun of football teams who forced the fans to waste their time. The "boring boring Arsenal" chant, for instance.
However it's hard to argue with results. Maybe she should move to Egypt
However it's hard to argue with results. Maybe she should move to Egypt
Posted by: boulder terlit hobo at August 12, 2016 06:11 PM (6FqZa)
Posted by: Mister Magoo's at August 12, 2016 06:11 PM (8PrS9)
583
570 Posted by: Insomniac at August 12, 2016 06:09 PM (0mRoj)
Guns and sex?
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at August 12, 2016 06:10 PM (Zu3d9)
We can just call that the Bang Bang! thread.
Guns and sex?
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at August 12, 2016 06:10 PM (Zu3d9)
We can just call that the Bang Bang! thread.
Posted by: Insomniac at August 12, 2016 06:12 PM (0mRoj)
584
so, does anyone have a nifty way to get around the wsj paywall. A poor friend wants to know.
Posted by: olddog in mo at August 12, 2016 06:12 PM (LrU4+)
585
Posted by: weft cut-loop at August 12, 2016 06:11 PM (9sySV)
More?
It is still a felony to knowingly aid and abet an Illegal Alien to stay in this country.
Start to enforce THAT law... and things will change pretty dang quick.
More?
It is still a felony to knowingly aid and abet an Illegal Alien to stay in this country.
Start to enforce THAT law... and things will change pretty dang quick.
Posted by: Don Q. at August 12, 2016 06:12 PM (qf6WZ)
586
What does Krauthammer have to say about all of this? I don't know what to think without some expert guidance from people who understand all of this.
I find it all very confusing.
What does Krauthammer have to say about all of this? I don't know what to think without some expert guidance from people who understand all of this.
I find it all very confusing.
Posted by: Frank Kroner at August 12, 2016 06:13 PM (F27J7)
587
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at August 12, 2016 06:04 PM (Zu3d9)
I am not arguing that a TSA-like result is inevitable, only that it is reasonable. I don't see what is strawman-ny about that.
I am not arguing that a TSA-like result is inevitable, only that it is reasonable. I don't see what is strawman-ny about that.
Posted by: chemjeff at August 12, 2016 06:13 PM (uAvJJ)
588
>>>yeah I was sorry to see that. As many know here I
watched the whole game and Sweden played a very smart game and won fair
and square.
Posted by: Nevergiveup at August 12, 2016 06:07 PM (Ozsfq)<<<
Yup. The only thing playing the prevent defense does is prevent you from winning... unless it doesn't. Like today.
watched the whole game and Sweden played a very smart game and won fair
and square.
Posted by: Nevergiveup at August 12, 2016 06:07 PM (Ozsfq)<<<
Yup. The only thing playing the prevent defense does is prevent you from winning... unless it doesn't. Like today.
Posted by: John Madden at August 12, 2016 06:13 PM (H9MG5)
589
CaliGirl at 552: Agreed. The notion that we need to import engineers is laughable, when over 50% of all kids go to college. There are a ton of engineers out there who have given up looking for work. It's just another crony-corruptocrat move to drive down wages for the workers that those particular corrupt companies need.
One real shortage is in skilled machinists. But we can't really import those, we pretty much just have to train our own.
One real shortage is in skilled machinists. But we can't really import those, we pretty much just have to train our own.
Posted by: Pastafarian at August 12, 2016 06:13 PM (sgHEm)
590
Oh boy. Hope Solo had unleashed a shitstorm after the loss today.
Said the better team lost. Said the Swedish team played cowardly. Not pretty.
Posted by: because there's not enough Hope on this thread at August 12, 2016 06:04 PM (H9MG5)
yeah I was sorry to see that. As many know here I watched the whole game and Sweden played a very smart game and won fair and square.
Posted by: Nevergiveup at August 12, 2016 06:07 PM (Ozsfq)
She sounds like a piece of work. if that's right I guess I'm not sorry for her that closeups of her butthole and hoohah are all over the internet.
Said the better team lost. Said the Swedish team played cowardly. Not pretty.
Posted by: because there's not enough Hope on this thread at August 12, 2016 06:04 PM (H9MG5)
yeah I was sorry to see that. As many know here I watched the whole game and Sweden played a very smart game and won fair and square.
Posted by: Nevergiveup at August 12, 2016 06:07 PM (Ozsfq)
She sounds like a piece of work. if that's right I guess I'm not sorry for her that closeups of her butthole and hoohah are all over the internet.
Posted by: stace...TEXIT at August 12, 2016 06:14 PM (ozZau)
591
584 so, does anyone have a nifty way to get around the wsj paywall. A poor friend wants to know.
Posted by: olddog in mo at August 12, 2016 06:12 PM (LrU4+)
++++
1. copy the headline of the wsj piece
2. paste it into google
3. click on the top result (it should have the already clicked color, since you were just there)
Posted by: olddog in mo at August 12, 2016 06:12 PM (LrU4+)
++++
1. copy the headline of the wsj piece
2. paste it into google
3. click on the top result (it should have the already clicked color, since you were just there)
Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at August 12, 2016 06:14 PM (R+30W)
592
>>$10,000 is small?
It is.
You wouldn't believe the shitstorm of stress and paperwork I have to go through when I buy / sell a vintage guitar in cash.
And now, I can't send anything overseas for fear of some lackey deciding to go all CITES on a 50 year old guitar.
It is.
You wouldn't believe the shitstorm of stress and paperwork I have to go through when I buy / sell a vintage guitar in cash.
And now, I can't send anything overseas for fear of some lackey deciding to go all CITES on a 50 year old guitar.
Posted by: garrett at August 12, 2016 06:14 PM (c1srJ)
593
so, does anyone have a nifty way to get around the wsj paywall. A poor friend wants to know
----------------------------------------------
Copy the title of the article into the search bar of your favorite search engine, and click on the search icon, whatever it might be.
----------------------------------------------
Copy the title of the article into the search bar of your favorite search engine, and click on the search icon, whatever it might be.
Posted by: Frank Kroner at August 12, 2016 06:14 PM (F27J7)
594
573
You don't need a traffic-stop like interdiction of illegal aliens.
Start with a few things like these:
Sanctuary cities are curbed. Withdraw funding, withdraw fed agency support and aid.
get
eVerify to actually work, and have H1B-reliant companies are audited
quarterly. Remember the law actually states H1B is not a method to
reduce your payroll expense.
Uni's are responsible for any and all 'students' that fail to report.
The
point being you don't need routine 'Hallspass, bitte!' type
enforcement. Our stupidly complex age has so much interaction with the
State that there's no end to the opportunity for reminding guests that
they need to obey the law.
Posted by: weft cut-loop at August 12, 2016 06:11 PM (9sySV)
If that were the case, then I would be ecstatic.
You don't need a traffic-stop like interdiction of illegal aliens.
Start with a few things like these:
Sanctuary cities are curbed. Withdraw funding, withdraw fed agency support and aid.
get
eVerify to actually work, and have H1B-reliant companies are audited
quarterly. Remember the law actually states H1B is not a method to
reduce your payroll expense.
Uni's are responsible for any and all 'students' that fail to report.
The
point being you don't need routine 'Hallspass, bitte!' type
enforcement. Our stupidly complex age has so much interaction with the
State that there's no end to the opportunity for reminding guests that
they need to obey the law.
Posted by: weft cut-loop at August 12, 2016 06:11 PM (9sySV)
If that were the case, then I would be ecstatic.
Posted by: chemjeff at August 12, 2016 06:14 PM (uAvJJ)
595
Looks like the hashtag #hopesolosbutthurt is off to a start
Posted by: boulder terlit hobo at August 12, 2016 06:15 PM (6FqZa)
596
TSA like? I got not problem with the concept of the security they want at TSA, and i don't think they violate ANY of civil liberties..what I resent is that they are incompetent, poorly trained, and improperly hired.
Posted by: Nevergiveup at August 12, 2016 06:15 PM (Ozsfq)
Posted by: ScoggDog at August 12, 2016 06:15 PM (jyInK)
598
She sounds like a piece of work. if that's right I guess I'm not sorry for her that closeups of her butthole and hoohah are all over the internet.
Posted by: stace...TEXIT at August 12, 2016 06:14 PM (ozZau)
I'm pretty sure photos of her naughty bits aren't the only controversy she's been involved in. Weren't the cops called on her for assaulting her boyfriend?
Posted by: stace...TEXIT at August 12, 2016 06:14 PM (ozZau)
I'm pretty sure photos of her naughty bits aren't the only controversy she's been involved in. Weren't the cops called on her for assaulting her boyfriend?
Posted by: buzzion at August 12, 2016 06:15 PM (bMG0w)
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at August 12, 2016 06:16 PM (Zu3d9)
600
Transnational progressivism -- fidelity only to a transnational cult of
like-minded fellows who have stripped themselves of the baggage of base
nationality and patritism
---
There's a better word for this.
Stateless.
With every implication thereof.
like-minded fellows who have stripped themselves of the baggage of base
nationality and patritism
---
There's a better word for this.
Stateless.
With every implication thereof.
Posted by: Methos, AoSHQ commenter since 2006, now apperently nonvoting democrat at August 12, 2016 06:16 PM (3Liv/)
601
Great topic/Article Ace. One thought I had regarding this:
"Appalled by Rand's absolute insistence that she owed nothing -- not even sympathy -- to her struggling fellow countrymen, Chambers observed that Rand's prescription for the poor seemed to be nothing but "To a gas chamber, go.""
Rand was right, you don't owe anyone a god damned thing. That doesn't mean you can't care and can't help or even shouldn't. Put a starving person in front of me that has no means to feed themselves and if it's in my capacity I'll feed them even if it means I have to suffer some hunger myself. Put that same person in front of me demanding that I feed them, telling me how I owe them a meal, there's a good chance they are going to starve.
"Appalled by Rand's absolute insistence that she owed nothing -- not even sympathy -- to her struggling fellow countrymen, Chambers observed that Rand's prescription for the poor seemed to be nothing but "To a gas chamber, go.""
Rand was right, you don't owe anyone a god damned thing. That doesn't mean you can't care and can't help or even shouldn't. Put a starving person in front of me that has no means to feed themselves and if it's in my capacity I'll feed them even if it means I have to suffer some hunger myself. Put that same person in front of me demanding that I feed them, telling me how I owe them a meal, there's a good chance they are going to starve.
Posted by: thecoat at August 12, 2016 06:16 PM (j3QJG)
602
Combined guns and deep-frying thread: Smith & Wesson Oil
Posted by: Insomniac at August 12, 2016 06:16 PM (0mRoj)
Posted by: FaCubeItches at August 12, 2016 06:17 PM (rznWS)
604
So, does anyone have a nifty way to get around the wsj paywall. A poor friend wants to know.Posted by: olddog in mo
Cut first paragraph from wsj. Paste into search engine. Surf around. Somebody has it.
Cut first paragraph from wsj. Paste into search engine. Surf around. Somebody has it.
Posted by: free range 'sorta' conservative but not 'true' conservative at August 12, 2016 06:17 PM (ZnIt3)
605
Oh, and file lawsuits against cities that actively discriminate in building code violations, traffic citations, etc.
According to the Left's favorite standard, any and all racial/ethnic imbalance is proof of discrimination.
According to the Left's favorite standard, any and all racial/ethnic imbalance is proof of discrimination.
Posted by: weft cut-loop at August 12, 2016 06:17 PM (9sySV)
606
$10,000 is small? Well maybe to Moo Moo?
Posted by: Nevergiveup at August 12, 2016 06:11 PM (Ozsfq)
Who cares if $10,000 is small, large, or in between? It's my fucking money. Why shouldn't I have the liberty to deposit my own money in my bank account any way that I see fit, without some government agent knocking on my door falsely accusing me of doing something illegal?
Posted by: Nevergiveup at August 12, 2016 06:11 PM (Ozsfq)
Who cares if $10,000 is small, large, or in between? It's my fucking money. Why shouldn't I have the liberty to deposit my own money in my bank account any way that I see fit, without some government agent knocking on my door falsely accusing me of doing something illegal?
Posted by: chemjeff at August 12, 2016 06:17 PM (uAvJJ)
Posted by: Mister Magoo's at August 12, 2016 06:17 PM (8PrS9)
608
Sigs & Pigs?
Sigs & Pigs?
Posted by: Mister Magoo's at August 12, 2016 06:17 PM (8PrS9)
609
>>I'm not sorry for her that closeups of her butthole and hoohah are all over the internet.
more like 'hoo-AHH!? - what the fuck is that!?"
more like 'hoo-AHH!? - what the fuck is that!?"
Posted by: garrett at August 12, 2016 06:17 PM (c1srJ)
610
Bossy Conservative....outlaw in America
You're right. The invention was his, and his comments are the best.
You're right. The invention was his, and his comments are the best.
Posted by: geoffb5 at August 12, 2016 06:18 PM (d3wbb)
611
608
Sigs & Pigs?
Posted by: Mister Magoo's at August 12, 2016 06:17 PM (8PrS9)
Ooooo, a guns and barbecue thread!
Sigs & Pigs?
Posted by: Mister Magoo's at August 12, 2016 06:17 PM (8PrS9)
Ooooo, a guns and barbecue thread!
Posted by: Insomniac at August 12, 2016 06:18 PM (0mRoj)
612
600 Transnational progressivism -- fidelity only to a transnational cult of
like-minded fellows who have stripped themselves of the baggage of base
nationality and patritism
---
There's a better word for this.
Stateless.
With every implication thereof.
Posted by: Methos, AoSHQ commenter since 2006, now apperently nonvoting democrat at August 12, 2016 06:16 PM (3Liv/)
Yet those Transnational Dual Citizens of the World types are the FIRST to call on their Government if they get in trouble overseas, or have a Legal Problem.
Not to mention calling on the Military to come save them from their own stupidity.
like-minded fellows who have stripped themselves of the baggage of base
nationality and patritism
---
There's a better word for this.
Stateless.
With every implication thereof.
Posted by: Methos, AoSHQ commenter since 2006, now apperently nonvoting democrat at August 12, 2016 06:16 PM (3Liv/)
Yet those Transnational Dual Citizens of the World types are the FIRST to call on their Government if they get in trouble overseas, or have a Legal Problem.
Not to mention calling on the Military to come save them from their own stupidity.
Posted by: Don Q. at August 12, 2016 06:18 PM (qf6WZ)
Posted by: ScoggDog at August 12, 2016 06:18 PM (jyInK)
614
Who cares if $10,000 is small, large, or in between? It's my fucking money. Why shouldn't I have the liberty to deposit my own money in my bank account any way that I see fit, without some government agent knocking on my door falsely accusing me of doing something illegal?
Posted by: chemjeff at August 12, 2016 06:17 PM (uAvJJ)
You really do live in Fantasy land and I guess your overpaid at what ever you really do at the college. But I guess you never heard of the War on Drugs?
Posted by: chemjeff at August 12, 2016 06:17 PM (uAvJJ)
You really do live in Fantasy land and I guess your overpaid at what ever you really do at the college. But I guess you never heard of the War on Drugs?
Posted by: Nevergiveup at August 12, 2016 06:18 PM (Ozsfq)
615
Springfields & Springers?
Springfields & Springers?
Posted by: Mister Magoo's at August 12, 2016 06:18 PM (8PrS9)
Posted by: dartist at August 12, 2016 06:19 PM (3zi7q)
617
Posted by: Pastafarian at August 12, 2016 06:13 PM (sgHEm)
We are bringing those from Mexico too.
We are bringing those from Mexico too.
Posted by: CaliGirl at August 12, 2016 06:19 PM (fsFHj)
618
Not because Americans are necessarily better than foreign citizens --
but just because those within the family are, naturally, more the
objects of our sympathy and concern to those without it.
When my neighbors respect me and mine , announce themselves or knock before entering, they are welcome to cross onto my property.
If my neighbors bear a family resemblance to their own family which make
them more identifiable , I will not ignore it and will describe them in
that way.
When the neighbors jump my fence , steal my possessions, damage my property and injure my family they are no longer welcome. And they are enemies.
but just because those within the family are, naturally, more the
objects of our sympathy and concern to those without it.
When my neighbors respect me and mine , announce themselves or knock before entering, they are welcome to cross onto my property.
If my neighbors bear a family resemblance to their own family which make
them more identifiable , I will not ignore it and will describe them in
that way.
When the neighbors jump my fence , steal my possessions, damage my property and injure my family they are no longer welcome. And they are enemies.
Posted by: Mortimer at August 12, 2016 06:19 PM (zu88C)
619
Rand was right, you don't owe anyone a god damned
thing. That doesn't mean you can't care and can't help or even
shouldn't. Put a starving person in front of me that has no means to
feed themselves and if it's in my capacity I'll feed them even if it
means I have to suffer some hunger myself. Put that same person in
front of me demanding that I feed them, telling me how I owe them a
meal, there's a good chance they are going to starve.
Posted by: thecoat at August 12, 2016 06:16 PM (j3QJG)
This. It's the difference between willingly helping and being coerced. The first is charity, the second is theft.
thing. That doesn't mean you can't care and can't help or even
shouldn't. Put a starving person in front of me that has no means to
feed themselves and if it's in my capacity I'll feed them even if it
means I have to suffer some hunger myself. Put that same person in
front of me demanding that I feed them, telling me how I owe them a
meal, there's a good chance they are going to starve.
Posted by: thecoat at August 12, 2016 06:16 PM (j3QJG)
This. It's the difference between willingly helping and being coerced. The first is charity, the second is theft.
Posted by: Captain Whitebread at August 12, 2016 06:19 PM (rJUlF)
620
So, Bill Shine takes over Fox (the significant portions of it). Good move, I guess ?
Posted by: runner at August 12, 2016 06:19 PM (c6/9Q)
621
If that were the case, then I would be ecstatic.
Posted by: chemjeff
So why not stop with the strawmen?
Posted by: chemjeff
So why not stop with the strawmen?
Posted by: weft cut-loop at August 12, 2016 06:19 PM (9sySV)
622
I've been here for so long I remember when Chem Jeff didn't want to deport illegal aliens because it was mean
Posted by: ThunderB at August 12, 2016 06:20 PM (p42GR)
Posted by: Dr. Ruth at August 12, 2016 06:20 PM (H9MG5)
624
OK. After a few minutes' pause to reflect and do some offline work, I gotta call out the "Bill of Rights not applied to non-citizens" thing on the grounds of potential philosophical incoherence.
From whence to our rights originate? The argument in use is the most dangerous--they are rights issued by a document or government, granted or denied as as pleased. It is one I disagree with, and one I thought was understood to be anathema to the liberty-oriented, who would understand that what is said is that government may not abridge those rights--not that it grants them--which means they are, of course, inherent. As inherent rights all humanity has them; the difference is the degree to which they are exercised or suppressed.
Posted by: Brother Cavil, down with Eph 6:12-13 at August 12, 2016 05:42 PM (9krrF)
It's not that the Constitution grants any rights. A free person has certain rights - as you point out. The question is what rights the government (the US government) is created to secure and for whom? Just because someone has a right doesn't mean that anyone around will let him exercise that right. He is not free, then. The US government was established in order to allow a free people to exercise their rights.
The question, then, is exactly who this government is working to secure the rights of. And the answer that I have come to is that the US government is only beholden to US citizens. The US government owes nothing to any alien. They have their own governments.
That's where I'm coming from, at least.
SH has a little disagreement with me, saying that certain rights must be protected by our government for anyone under the jurisdiction of our government on our land. Okay. I don't really agree with that but SH has the wording of the 5th in his favor.
From whence to our rights originate? The argument in use is the most dangerous--they are rights issued by a document or government, granted or denied as as pleased. It is one I disagree with, and one I thought was understood to be anathema to the liberty-oriented, who would understand that what is said is that government may not abridge those rights--not that it grants them--which means they are, of course, inherent. As inherent rights all humanity has them; the difference is the degree to which they are exercised or suppressed.
Posted by: Brother Cavil, down with Eph 6:12-13 at August 12, 2016 05:42 PM (9krrF)
It's not that the Constitution grants any rights. A free person has certain rights - as you point out. The question is what rights the government (the US government) is created to secure and for whom? Just because someone has a right doesn't mean that anyone around will let him exercise that right. He is not free, then. The US government was established in order to allow a free people to exercise their rights.
The question, then, is exactly who this government is working to secure the rights of. And the answer that I have come to is that the US government is only beholden to US citizens. The US government owes nothing to any alien. They have their own governments.
That's where I'm coming from, at least.
SH has a little disagreement with me, saying that certain rights must be protected by our government for anyone under the jurisdiction of our government on our land. Okay. I don't really agree with that but SH has the wording of the 5th in his favor.
Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at August 12, 2016 06:20 PM (zc3Db)
625
So, Bill Shine takes over Fox (the significant portions of it). Good move, I guess ?
Posted by: runner at August 12, 2016 06:19 PM (c6/9Q)
Read that...who is he? I mean does anyone know what side of the political spectrum he falls on?
Posted by: runner at August 12, 2016 06:19 PM (c6/9Q)
Read that...who is he? I mean does anyone know what side of the political spectrum he falls on?
Posted by: Nevergiveup at August 12, 2016 06:20 PM (Ozsfq)
626
He used to be big on dreamers rhetoric
Posted by: ThunderB at August 12, 2016 06:20 PM (p42GR)
627
>>>Rugers 'n Cougars
An AoSHQ dating thread.
Posted by: Dr. Ruth at August 12, 2016 06:20 PM (H9MG5)<<<
Or health thread... safe sex practices.
An AoSHQ dating thread.
Posted by: Dr. Ruth at August 12, 2016 06:20 PM (H9MG5)<<<
Or health thread... safe sex practices.
Posted by: Dick Cheney at August 12, 2016 06:20 PM (H9MG5)
628
Posted by: chemjeff at August 12, 2016 06:17 PM (uAvJJ)
So you don't like the structuring and money laundering laws?
Is that how you feel about our immigration laws?
Because you are arguing as if they are interchangeable.
So you don't like the structuring and money laundering laws?
Is that how you feel about our immigration laws?
Because you are arguing as if they are interchangeable.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at August 12, 2016 06:20 PM (Zu3d9)
629
Soccer should have lions on the field.
Why not randomly activated mines? The safe path a minute ago is not the safe path now.
Why not randomly activated mines? The safe path a minute ago is not the safe path now.
Posted by: Blanco Basura at August 12, 2016 06:20 PM (4WhSY)
630
@565: "We could have a guns and laundry thread called Glocks and Socks."
Now that football season is starting, we can have a thread about 4th down plays and GOPe talking heads called "Punts and ....well, you get the picture.
Now that football season is starting, we can have a thread about 4th down plays and GOPe talking heads called "Punts and ....well, you get the picture.
Posted by: FaCubeItches at August 12, 2016 06:21 PM (rznWS)
631
614 Who cares if $10,000 is small, large, or in between? It's my fucking money. Why shouldn't I have the liberty to deposit my own money in my bank account any way that I see fit, without some government agent knocking on my door falsely accusing me of doing something illegal?
Posted by: chemjeff at August 12, 2016 06:17 PM (uAvJJ)
You really do live in Fantasy land and I guess your overpaid at what ever you really do at the college. But I guess you never heard of the War on Drugs?
Posted by: Nevergiveup at August 12, 2016 06:18 PM (Ozsfq)
++++
Was there something in the constitution about that? I guess I missed the part where the feds could do anything they wanted as long as they were fighting "drugs".
Posted by: chemjeff at August 12, 2016 06:17 PM (uAvJJ)
You really do live in Fantasy land and I guess your overpaid at what ever you really do at the college. But I guess you never heard of the War on Drugs?
Posted by: Nevergiveup at August 12, 2016 06:18 PM (Ozsfq)
++++
Was there something in the constitution about that? I guess I missed the part where the feds could do anything they wanted as long as they were fighting "drugs".
Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at August 12, 2016 06:21 PM (R+30W)
632
619 Rand was right, you don't owe anyone a god damned
thing. That doesn't mean you can't care and can't help or even
shouldn't. Put a starving person in front of me that has no means to
feed themselves and if it's in my capacity I'll feed them even if it
means I have to suffer some hunger myself. Put that same person in
front of me demanding that I feed them, telling me how I owe them a
meal, there's a good chance they are going to starve.
Posted by: thecoat at August 12, 2016 06:16 PM (j3QJG)
This. It's the difference between willingly helping and being coerced. The first is charity, the second is theft.
Posted by: Captain Whitebread at August 12, 2016 06:19 PM (rJUlF)
But if its the Government forcing you to give them shit.... its modern Taxation...
thing. That doesn't mean you can't care and can't help or even
shouldn't. Put a starving person in front of me that has no means to
feed themselves and if it's in my capacity I'll feed them even if it
means I have to suffer some hunger myself. Put that same person in
front of me demanding that I feed them, telling me how I owe them a
meal, there's a good chance they are going to starve.
Posted by: thecoat at August 12, 2016 06:16 PM (j3QJG)
This. It's the difference between willingly helping and being coerced. The first is charity, the second is theft.
Posted by: Captain Whitebread at August 12, 2016 06:19 PM (rJUlF)
But if its the Government forcing you to give them shit.... its modern Taxation...
Posted by: Don Q. at August 12, 2016 06:21 PM (qf6WZ)
Posted by: Mister Magoo's at August 12, 2016 06:21 PM (8PrS9)
634
Who cares if $10,000 is small, large, or in between? It's my fucking money. Why shouldn't I have the liberty to deposit my own money in my bank account any way that I see fit, without some government agent knocking on my door falsely accusing me of doing something illegal?
Posted by: chemjeff at August 12, 2016 06:17 PM (uAvJJ)
You really do live in Fantasy land and I guess your overpaid at what ever you really do at the college. But I guess you never heard of the War on Drugs?
Posted by: Nevergiveup at August 12, 2016 06:18 PM (Ozsfq)
----------------
I'm jumping in late. I agree with CJ.
Posted by: chemjeff at August 12, 2016 06:17 PM (uAvJJ)
You really do live in Fantasy land and I guess your overpaid at what ever you really do at the college. But I guess you never heard of the War on Drugs?
Posted by: Nevergiveup at August 12, 2016 06:18 PM (Ozsfq)
----------------
I'm jumping in late. I agree with CJ.
Posted by: SH at August 12, 2016 06:21 PM (gmeXX)
635
@ 591 and 593. Thanks.
Posted by: olddog in mo at August 12, 2016 06:21 PM (LrU4+)
636
Beretta and bruschetta
Posted by: Insomniac at August 12, 2016 06:21 PM (0mRoj)
637
more like 'hoo-AHH!? - what the fuck is that!?"
Posted by: garrett at August 12, 2016 06:17 PM (c1srJ)
I know right? I was squinting through my fingers, but I think I saw all the way up into her fallopian tubes.
Posted by: garrett at August 12, 2016 06:17 PM (c1srJ)
I know right? I was squinting through my fingers, but I think I saw all the way up into her fallopian tubes.
Posted by: stace...TEXIT at August 12, 2016 06:22 PM (ozZau)
638
So, Bill Shine takes over Fox (the significant portions of it). Good move, I guess ?
Posted by: runner
Don't know / don't care.
We need to stop thinking of Fox as 'our' team. It's not.
Posted by: runner
Don't know / don't care.
We need to stop thinking of Fox as 'our' team. It's not.
Posted by: weft cut-loop at August 12, 2016 06:22 PM (9sySV)
639
>>He used to be big on dreamers rhetoric
He taught a Muslima how to titrate and now he 'gets it'.
He taught a Muslima how to titrate and now he 'gets it'.
Posted by: garrett at August 12, 2016 06:22 PM (c1srJ)
640
Also ?
Mortimer's two step solution to the immigration problem.
1. Employer sanctions
2. Back taxes
Mortimer's two step solution to the immigration problem.
1. Employer sanctions
2. Back taxes
Posted by: Mortimer at August 12, 2016 06:22 PM (zu88C)
641
Guns and gardening thread, the Gambino edition
Posted by: runner at August 12, 2016 06:22 PM (c6/9Q)
642
Was there something in the constitution about that? I guess I missed the part where the feds could do anything they wanted as long as they were fighting "drugs".
Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at August 12, 2016 06:21 PM (R+30W)
Take it to Court. Has it been ruled unconstitutional?
Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at August 12, 2016 06:21 PM (R+30W)
Take it to Court. Has it been ruled unconstitutional?
Posted by: Nevergiveup at August 12, 2016 06:22 PM (Ozsfq)
643
613 Lions.
Soccer should have lions on the field.
Posted by: ScoggDog at August 12, 2016 06:18 PM (jyInK
If you fall to the pitch twice in a game clutching your leg and crying to stop the game and you are still able to play, you lose your leg.
Soccer should have lions on the field.
Posted by: ScoggDog at August 12, 2016 06:18 PM (jyInK
If you fall to the pitch twice in a game clutching your leg and crying to stop the game and you are still able to play, you lose your leg.
Posted by: buzzion at August 12, 2016 06:22 PM (bMG0w)
Posted by: ScoggDog at August 12, 2016 06:22 PM (jyInK)
645
622 I've been here for so long I remember when Chem Jeff didn't want to deport illegal aliens because it was mean
Posted by: ThunderB at August 12, 2016 06:20 PM (p42GR)
Oh.... you got here yesterday?
Posted by: ThunderB at August 12, 2016 06:20 PM (p42GR)
Oh.... you got here yesterday?
Posted by: Don Q. at August 12, 2016 06:22 PM (qf6WZ)
Posted by: Mister Magoo's at August 12, 2016 06:22 PM (8PrS9)
647
But if its the Government forcing you to give them shit.... its modern Taxation...
Posted by: Don Q. at August 12, 2016 06:21 PM (qf6WZ)
Merely theft by another name.
Posted by: Don Q. at August 12, 2016 06:21 PM (qf6WZ)
Merely theft by another name.
Posted by: Captain Whitebread at August 12, 2016 06:22 PM (rJUlF)
648
Yeah, Tuchman's A Distant Mirror was a really good read - which she wrote specifically because of the parallels she saw between the 14th century and our time.
Posted by: sock_rat_eez at August 12, 2016 06:22 PM (gUoN4)
649
Single-action and Fapping
Posted by: Pug Mahon at August 12, 2016 06:22 PM (RwwCT)
Posted by: garrett at August 12, 2016 06:23 PM (c1srJ)
651
Take it to Court. Has it been ruled unconstitutional?
Posted by: Nevergiveup at August 12, 2016 06:22 PM (Ozsfq)
------------
The Court is not supreme.
Posted by: Nevergiveup at August 12, 2016 06:22 PM (Ozsfq)
------------
The Court is not supreme.
Posted by: SH at August 12, 2016 06:23 PM (gmeXX)
Posted by: Grump928(C) reminds you at August 12, 2016 06:23 PM (rwI+c)
Posted by: Mr Aspirin Factory at August 12, 2016 06:23 PM (89T5c)
654
646
Ready for this one?!!?
Schnauzers & Mausers!
Posted by: Mister Magoo's at August 12, 2016 06:22 PM (8PrS9)
Nice! Guns and party planning: Garand Old Time!
Ready for this one?!!?
Schnauzers & Mausers!
Posted by: Mister Magoo's at August 12, 2016 06:22 PM (8PrS9)
Nice! Guns and party planning: Garand Old Time!
Posted by: Insomniac at August 12, 2016 06:23 PM (0mRoj)
655
The Court is not supreme.
Posted by: SH at August 12, 2016 06:23 PM (gmeXX)
Oh no? Other than passing a Constitutional amendment, it sure the fuck is.
Posted by: SH at August 12, 2016 06:23 PM (gmeXX)
Oh no? Other than passing a Constitutional amendment, it sure the fuck is.
Posted by: Nevergiveup at August 12, 2016 06:24 PM (Ozsfq)
656
I agree with CJ.
Be cautious.
---------------
Well in an argument about whether the government should be able to require banks to report any deposit of $10,000 or more, I'm going to go with the side fighting for liberty.
Be cautious.
---------------
Well in an argument about whether the government should be able to require banks to report any deposit of $10,000 or more, I'm going to go with the side fighting for liberty.
Posted by: SH at August 12, 2016 06:24 PM (gmeXX)
657
Ace is on a roll this week. Good stuff!
Posted by: LongTimeLurkerSinceBeforeKaboom at August 12, 2016 06:24 PM (vB0KY)
658
642 Was there something in the constitution about that? I guess I missed the part where the feds could do anything they wanted as long as they were fighting "drugs".
Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at August 12, 2016 06:21 PM (R+30W)
Take it to Court. Has it been ruled unconstitutional?
Posted by: Nevergiveup at August 12, 2016 06:22 PM (Ozsfq)
++++
Which court are you talking about? The one that says Obamacare and abortion are constitutional?
Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at August 12, 2016 06:21 PM (R+30W)
Take it to Court. Has it been ruled unconstitutional?
Posted by: Nevergiveup at August 12, 2016 06:22 PM (Ozsfq)
++++
Which court are you talking about? The one that says Obamacare and abortion are constitutional?
Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at August 12, 2016 06:24 PM (R+30W)
659
"There shall be open borders."
Obama wants them to subvert the culture.
Hillary wants them for the votes. And 'cos her donors bought it from her fair and square.
The Muslim Brotherhood wants them because there are 2.2 billion Muslims.
WSJ wants them because they like the pure, clean economic theory in which borders are inefficient impediments to commerce.
But people aren't decimals.
Yet.
btw, I know we're smarter than God now, but He rebuked the Trans-national Project and established borders at the Tower of Babel.
Obama wants them to subvert the culture.
Hillary wants them for the votes. And 'cos her donors bought it from her fair and square.
The Muslim Brotherhood wants them because there are 2.2 billion Muslims.
WSJ wants them because they like the pure, clean economic theory in which borders are inefficient impediments to commerce.
But people aren't decimals.
Yet.
btw, I know we're smarter than God now, but He rebuked the Trans-national Project and established borders at the Tower of Babel.
Posted by: Samuel Johnson at August 12, 2016 06:24 PM (Ndje9)
660
653
on Drudge:
all dem members of congress private cellphones hacked
fuck 'em.
Posted by: Mr Aspirin Factory
======
Trump paid the Russians to do it in 3-2-1...
on Drudge:
all dem members of congress private cellphones hacked
fuck 'em.
Posted by: Mr Aspirin Factory
======
Trump paid the Russians to do it in 3-2-1...
Posted by: Mortimer at August 12, 2016 06:24 PM (zu88C)
661
625 So, Bill Shine takes over Fox (the significant portions of it). Good move, I guess ?
Posted by: runner at August 12, 2016 06:19 PM (c6/9Q)
I don't know his ideology, but I'm not sure he'll be there that long. It's been implied that he had knowledge of what Ailes was doing with the ladies.
Posted by: runner at August 12, 2016 06:19 PM (c6/9Q)
I don't know his ideology, but I'm not sure he'll be there that long. It's been implied that he had knowledge of what Ailes was doing with the ladies.
Posted by: stace...TEXIT at August 12, 2016 06:24 PM (ozZau)
662
We crazy.
We crazy.
Posted by: Mister Magoo's at August 12, 2016 06:24 PM (8PrS9)
663
>>"You know what would make soccer fun to watch ?"
Randomly placed landmines.
Randomly Laced Playmates
Randomly Laced Playmates
Posted by: garrett at August 12, 2016 06:24 PM (c1srJ)
664
Oh no? Other than passing a Constitutional amendment, it sure the fuck is.
---------------
I suggest we pass an amendment that says the Constitution is supreme law of the land.
---------------
I suggest we pass an amendment that says the Constitution is supreme law of the land.
Posted by: SH at August 12, 2016 06:25 PM (gmeXX)
665
Other than passing a Constitutional amendment, it sure the fuck is.
Yes and no. It's the weakest of the branches as it has neither money nor muscle.
Yes and no. It's the weakest of the branches as it has neither money nor muscle.
Posted by: Grump928(C) reminds you at August 12, 2016 06:25 PM (rwI+c)
666
Peggy Noonan - Obama fan-girl.
Now that her girlish crush on Barky has cooled, she's having second thoughts about her love of all things lefty?
Or has somebody told her that she's not really one of them after all and there's no room for her behind the walls the true elites have built for themselves.?
Now that her girlish crush on Barky has cooled, she's having second thoughts about her love of all things lefty?
Or has somebody told her that she's not really one of them after all and there's no room for her behind the walls the true elites have built for themselves.?
Posted by: Boots at August 12, 2016 06:25 PM (EBwPV)
667
Which court are you talking about? The one that says Obamacare and abortion are constitutional?
Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at August 12, 2016 06:24 PM (R+30W)
?????
I don't like all their decisions, but unless your planning Insurrection, I don't get your point.
Which court are you talking about? The one that says Obamacare and abortion are constitutional?
Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at August 12, 2016 06:24 PM (R+30W)
?????
I don't like all their decisions, but unless your planning Insurrection, I don't get your point.
Posted by: Nevergiveup at August 12, 2016 06:25 PM (Ozsfq)
668
Peggy Noonan? It's hard to take that &$@! seriously. She got what she wanted with zippy, and now she's concerned about global elitism? Bitch, please!
Posted by: Gungrabby McGrabberson at August 12, 2016 06:25 PM (T2QVc)
669
Well in an argument about whether the government should be able to require banks to report any deposit of $10,000 or more, I'm going to go with the side fighting for liberty.
Posted by: SH at August 12, 2016 06:24 PM (gmeXX)
Yep. That bullshit reporting is a clear 4th amendment violation (for American citizens
). It doesn't get much clearer than that.
Posted by: SH at August 12, 2016 06:24 PM (gmeXX)
Yep. That bullshit reporting is a clear 4th amendment violation (for American citizens
). It doesn't get much clearer than that.Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at August 12, 2016 06:25 PM (zc3Db)
Posted by: Insomniac at August 12, 2016 06:26 PM (0mRoj)
Posted by: JEM at August 12, 2016 06:26 PM (o+SC1)
672
You really do live in Fantasy land and I guess your
overpaid at what ever you really do at the college. But I guess you
never heard of the War on Drugs?
Posted by: Nevergiveup at August 12, 2016 06:18 PM (Ozsfq)
Yes I have heard of the War on Drugs. And you are illustrating my point. In order to fight the War on Drugs, the government has, in essence, inverted the burden of proof in many ways, and forced us to demonstrate that we AREN'T criminals.
We have to show ID to get Sudafed, and our name is recorded in some database, lest we wind up as meth cooks.
We have to avoid "structuring" of cash deposits, lest we be accused of being drug dealers.
And the list goes on. This has been the modern practice of the government to try to enforce the laws. The citizens are basically dragooned into becoming agents of the state to enforce the law on ourselves. We have to restrict our own actions lest we be accused of being drug dealers. And that trend has to stop, somehow.
overpaid at what ever you really do at the college. But I guess you
never heard of the War on Drugs?
Posted by: Nevergiveup at August 12, 2016 06:18 PM (Ozsfq)
Yes I have heard of the War on Drugs. And you are illustrating my point. In order to fight the War on Drugs, the government has, in essence, inverted the burden of proof in many ways, and forced us to demonstrate that we AREN'T criminals.
We have to show ID to get Sudafed, and our name is recorded in some database, lest we wind up as meth cooks.
We have to avoid "structuring" of cash deposits, lest we be accused of being drug dealers.
And the list goes on. This has been the modern practice of the government to try to enforce the laws. The citizens are basically dragooned into becoming agents of the state to enforce the law on ourselves. We have to restrict our own actions lest we be accused of being drug dealers. And that trend has to stop, somehow.
Posted by: chemjeff at August 12, 2016 06:26 PM (uAvJJ)
673
If you fall to the pitch twice in a game clutching
your leg and crying to stop the game and you are still able to play, you
lose your leg.
Posted by: buzzion at August 12, 2016 06:22 PM (bMG0w)
I agree with this, except you used the word "pitch," which means you talk like a fag and your shit's all retarded.
your leg and crying to stop the game and you are still able to play, you
lose your leg.
Posted by: buzzion at August 12, 2016 06:22 PM (bMG0w)
I agree with this, except you used the word "pitch," which means you talk like a fag and your shit's all retarded.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at August 12, 2016 06:26 PM (Zu3d9)
Posted by: Grump928(C) reminds you at August 12, 2016 06:26 PM (rwI+c)
Posted by: ScoggDog at August 12, 2016 06:26 PM (jyInK)
676
@600: "Transnational progressivism"
Didn't it just used to be called "International Socialism"? (Comintern worked pretty well, too.)
Didn't it just used to be called "International Socialism"? (Comintern worked pretty well, too.)
Posted by: FaCubeItches at August 12, 2016 06:26 PM (rznWS)
Posted by: wth at August 12, 2016 06:26 PM (HgMAr)
678
Soccer would be a lot more interesting if there were more fights, like in hockey.
Everyone loves a good riot.
Soccer would be a lot more interesting if there were more fights, like in hockey.
Everyone loves a good riot.
Posted by: Frank Kroner at August 12, 2016 06:27 PM (F27J7)
679
NGU - we just have to fight this mentality that the Court is supreme. I know you don't believe it should be, but you are just saying what is obvious on a practical level. Unfortunately, too many people accept this premise. We have to constantly fight this premise, and remind people that the Court is not supreme, the Constitution is.
So I just always play a little with that concept here in these diccussions.
So I just always play a little with that concept here in these diccussions.
Posted by: SH at August 12, 2016 06:27 PM (gmeXX)
680
673 If you fall to the pitch twice in a game clutching
your leg and crying to stop the game and you are still able to play, you
lose your leg.
Posted by: buzzion at August 12, 2016 06:22 PM (bMG0w)
I agree with this, except you used the word "pitch," which means you talk like a fag and your shit's all retarded.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at August 12, 2016 06:26 PM (Zu3d9)
I totally LOLd
your leg and crying to stop the game and you are still able to play, you
lose your leg.
Posted by: buzzion at August 12, 2016 06:22 PM (bMG0w)
I agree with this, except you used the word "pitch," which means you talk like a fag and your shit's all retarded.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at August 12, 2016 06:26 PM (Zu3d9)
I totally LOLd
Posted by: Insomniac at August 12, 2016 06:27 PM (0mRoj)
681
For trying to mitigate the huge damage that congressional action had done to the mortgage industry?
This is anti-free-market, populist nonsense.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at August 12, 2016 05:24 PM (Zu3d9)
No I'm talking about the vast, rampant fraud in the loan industry. Mortgage fraud on every level for years causing the largest asset bubble in the history of the world. Not a single person was held accountable and we're all paying the price. Now it's starting to happen again.
People being accountable for failure, and being allowed to fail, is the definition of the free-market. That bailout was anti-free-market.
This is anti-free-market, populist nonsense.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at August 12, 2016 05:24 PM (Zu3d9)
No I'm talking about the vast, rampant fraud in the loan industry. Mortgage fraud on every level for years causing the largest asset bubble in the history of the world. Not a single person was held accountable and we're all paying the price. Now it's starting to happen again.
People being accountable for failure, and being allowed to fail, is the definition of the free-market. That bailout was anti-free-market.
Posted by: Brian in New Orleans at August 12, 2016 06:27 PM (sqHNm)
682
"Reagan later said he regretted signing the '86 amnesty because Congress did not carry out the promised enforcment provision because, Get this , they lied."
Sen. Alan Simpson (whose bill bears his name) also said this was his biggest regret.
I talked to him about a month ago.
He is still pretty sharp, although he walks with a walking stick (not a cane) these days.
Sen. Alan Simpson (whose bill bears his name) also said this was his biggest regret.
I talked to him about a month ago.
He is still pretty sharp, although he walks with a walking stick (not a cane) these days.
Posted by: navybrat at August 12, 2016 06:27 PM (w7KSn)
683
From whence to our rights originate? The argument in use is the most
dangerous--they are rights issued by a document or government, granted
or denied as as pleased. It is one I disagree with, and one I thought
was understood to be anathema to the liberty-oriented, who would
understand that what is said is that government may not abridge those
rights--not that it grants them--which means they are, of course,
inherent. As inherent rights all humanity has them; the difference is
the degree to which they are exercised or suppressed.
Posted by: Brother Cavil, down with Eph 6:12-13 at August 12, 2016 05:42 PM (9krrF)
---
Our rights come from God, who gave them to everyone in equal measure.
However, governments are formed among men in order to secure those rights, which is to say the sole purpose of the nation is to protect the rights of those who belong to it. The rest of the world is not our problem in that regard, though ideally we would do a sufficient job of protecting our rights against enemies foreign and the Democrats that the rest of the world could learn from our example.
dangerous--they are rights issued by a document or government, granted
or denied as as pleased. It is one I disagree with, and one I thought
was understood to be anathema to the liberty-oriented, who would
understand that what is said is that government may not abridge those
rights--not that it grants them--which means they are, of course,
inherent. As inherent rights all humanity has them; the difference is
the degree to which they are exercised or suppressed.
Posted by: Brother Cavil, down with Eph 6:12-13 at August 12, 2016 05:42 PM (9krrF)
---
Our rights come from God, who gave them to everyone in equal measure.
However, governments are formed among men in order to secure those rights, which is to say the sole purpose of the nation is to protect the rights of those who belong to it. The rest of the world is not our problem in that regard, though ideally we would do a sufficient job of protecting our rights against enemies foreign and the Democrats that the rest of the world could learn from our example.
Posted by: Methos, AoSHQ commenter since 2006, now apperently nonvoting democrat at August 12, 2016 06:27 PM (3Liv/)
684
Brens and Wrens (guns and bird watching)
Posted by: The Chicken (thankfully it wasn't "hens" and "dating") at August 12, 2016 06:28 PM (H9MG5)
685
671 >> all dem members of congress private cellphones
>> hacked
Popcorn (POPC) +20 after hours
Who really cares?
>> hacked
Popcorn (POPC) +20 after hours
Who really cares?
Posted by: donna at August 12, 2016 06:28 PM (O2RFr)
686
And that trend has to stop, somehow.
Posted by: chemjeff at August 12, 2016 06:26 PM (uAvJJ)
I'll grant, for the purposes of your argument, that you are correct.
But you choose illegal immigration as the test case to roll back intrusive government?
That's just retarded.
Posted by: chemjeff at August 12, 2016 06:26 PM (uAvJJ)
I'll grant, for the purposes of your argument, that you are correct.
But you choose illegal immigration as the test case to roll back intrusive government?
That's just retarded.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at August 12, 2016 06:28 PM (Zu3d9)
687
684 Brens and Wrens (guns and bird watching)
Posted by: The Chicken (thankfully it wasn't "hens" and "dating") at August 12, 2016 06:28 PM (H9MG5)
Guns and photography: Stens and Lens
Posted by: The Chicken (thankfully it wasn't "hens" and "dating") at August 12, 2016 06:28 PM (H9MG5)
Guns and photography: Stens and Lens
Posted by: Insomniac at August 12, 2016 06:28 PM (0mRoj)
688
Why compromise, Blanco ?
How about tazers, a lion, and random land mines ?
Don't particularly want to see lions get blown up.
Maybe hyenas.
How about tazers, a lion, and random land mines ?
Don't particularly want to see lions get blown up.
Maybe hyenas.
Posted by: Blanco Basura at August 12, 2016 06:28 PM (4WhSY)
689
I agree with this, except you used the word "pitch," which means you talk like a fag and your shit's all retarded.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at August 12, 2016 06:26 PM (Zu3d9
I figured I would be polite and use their preferred terminology since I was calling them a bunch of crybaby flopping fakers.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at August 12, 2016 06:26 PM (Zu3d9
I figured I would be polite and use their preferred terminology since I was calling them a bunch of crybaby flopping fakers.
Posted by: buzzion at August 12, 2016 06:29 PM (bMG0w)
690
YEARS ago, before the lifestyle threads, ace once proposed a having a thread just for the 'ettes that could include discussions on the menses and coupon-clipping.
Posted by: stace...TEXIT at August 12, 2016 06:29 PM (ozZau)
Posted by: ScoggDog at August 12, 2016 06:29 PM (jyInK)
692
NGU - we just have to fight this mentality that the Court is supreme. I know you don't believe it should be, but you are just saying what is obvious on a practical level. Unfortunately, too many people accept this premise. We have to constantly fight this premise, and remind people that the Court is not supreme, the Constitution is.
So I just always play a little with that concept here in these diccussions.
Posted by: SH at August 12, 2016 06:27 PM (gmeXX)
I get what your saying, but on a practical level, the Supreme Court interpreting the Constitution ( correctly or incorrectly) is The Law of the land.
And everyone has a right to rant and rave against those decisions, they don't like, I do...but in the end if they don't like a Law challenge it, but the laws are as they stand today.
So I just always play a little with that concept here in these diccussions.
Posted by: SH at August 12, 2016 06:27 PM (gmeXX)
I get what your saying, but on a practical level, the Supreme Court interpreting the Constitution ( correctly or incorrectly) is The Law of the land.
And everyone has a right to rant and rave against those decisions, they don't like, I do...but in the end if they don't like a Law challenge it, but the laws are as they stand today.
Posted by: Nevergiveup at August 12, 2016 06:29 PM (Ozsfq)
693
all dem members of congress private cellphones hacked
--
Oh no, are we gonna be seeing Pelosi' s nekkid selfies now?
--
Oh no, are we gonna be seeing Pelosi' s nekkid selfies now?
Posted by: @votermom at August 12, 2016 06:30 PM (7lVbc)
694
>> And the list goes on.
Yeah.
This is all about not having to actually engage in serious criminal penalties.
One option, of course, is to go the full Indonesia. No structuring, no this or that, but when you catch someone you just ask the relatives whether they want the body cremated or not.
Yeah.
This is all about not having to actually engage in serious criminal penalties.
One option, of course, is to go the full Indonesia. No structuring, no this or that, but when you catch someone you just ask the relatives whether they want the body cremated or not.
Posted by: JEM at August 12, 2016 06:30 PM (o+SC1)
695
678
Soccer would be a lot more interesting if there were more fights, like in hockey.
Everyone loves a good riot.
Posted by: Frank Kroner at August 12, 2016 06:27 PM (F27J7)
That happens in the stands.
Soccer would be a lot more interesting if there were more fights, like in hockey.
Everyone loves a good riot.
Posted by: Frank Kroner at August 12, 2016 06:27 PM (F27J7)
That happens in the stands.
Posted by: buzzion at August 12, 2016 06:30 PM (bMG0w)
696
As long as she's on the Washington cocktail party invite list she couldn't care less about the proles in this article. She's good at feigning compassion for them, but she's been mailing it in for years.
Posted by: Gungrabby McGrabberson at August 12, 2016 06:30 PM (T2QVc)
697
But you choose illegal immigration as the test case to roll back intrusive government?
---------------
No but I wouldn't add more just because it "helps" in the area of illegal immigration - see e-verify.
---------------
No but I wouldn't add more just because it "helps" in the area of illegal immigration - see e-verify.
Posted by: SH at August 12, 2016 06:30 PM (gmeXX)
698
>>No I'm talking about the vast, rampant fraud in the loan industry. Mortgage fraud on every level for years causing the largest asset bubble in the history of the world.
Agreed.
Everyone who conceived, wrote, voted for and implimented the CRA should have been lined up against the wall.
Agreed.
Everyone who conceived, wrote, voted for and implimented the CRA should have been lined up against the wall.
Posted by: garrett at August 12, 2016 06:30 PM (c1srJ)
699
In order to fight the War on Drugs, the government
has, in essence, inverted the burden of proof in many ways, and forced
us to demonstrate that we AREN'T criminals.
We have to show ID to get Sudafed, and our name is recorded in some database, lest we wind up as meth cooks.
We have to avoid "structuring" of cash deposits, lest we be accused of being drug dealers.
And
the list goes on. This has been the modern practice of the government
to try to enforce the laws. The citizens are basically dragooned into
becoming agents of the state to enforce the law on ourselves. We have to
restrict our own actions lest we be accused of being drug dealers. And
that trend has to stop, somehow.
Posted by: chemjeff
========
On this day in history, at approximately 6:29 EST, I completely agreed with chemjeff's comment.
has, in essence, inverted the burden of proof in many ways, and forced
us to demonstrate that we AREN'T criminals.
We have to show ID to get Sudafed, and our name is recorded in some database, lest we wind up as meth cooks.
We have to avoid "structuring" of cash deposits, lest we be accused of being drug dealers.
And
the list goes on. This has been the modern practice of the government
to try to enforce the laws. The citizens are basically dragooned into
becoming agents of the state to enforce the law on ourselves. We have to
restrict our own actions lest we be accused of being drug dealers. And
that trend has to stop, somehow.
Posted by: chemjeff
========
On this day in history, at approximately 6:29 EST, I completely agreed with chemjeff's comment.
Posted by: Mortimer at August 12, 2016 06:30 PM (zu88C)
700
So you don't like the structuring and money laundering laws?
Is that how you feel about our immigration laws?
Because you are arguing as if they are interchangeable.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at August 12, 2016 06:20 PM (Zu3d9)
I am arguing, and concerned, that many of the same techniques used to fight terrorism and fight the war on drugs, based on recent history, will be employed to track down illegals. Particularly, the techniques in which the burden of proof is inverted, and instead of the government having to prove that citizens are doing something wrong, citizens have to demonstrate to the government why they are allowed to do what they are doing. That is my point.
Is that how you feel about our immigration laws?
Because you are arguing as if they are interchangeable.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at August 12, 2016 06:20 PM (Zu3d9)
I am arguing, and concerned, that many of the same techniques used to fight terrorism and fight the war on drugs, based on recent history, will be employed to track down illegals. Particularly, the techniques in which the burden of proof is inverted, and instead of the government having to prove that citizens are doing something wrong, citizens have to demonstrate to the government why they are allowed to do what they are doing. That is my point.
Posted by: chemjeff at August 12, 2016 06:30 PM (uAvJJ)
701
690 YEARS ago, before the lifestyle threads, ace once proposed a having a thread just for the 'ettes that could include discussions on the menses and coupon-clipping.
Posted by: stace...TEXIT at August 12, 2016 06:29 PM (ozZau)
Make it EBT and it's cramping and food-stamping
Posted by: stace...TEXIT at August 12, 2016 06:29 PM (ozZau)
Make it EBT and it's cramping and food-stamping
Posted by: Insomniac at August 12, 2016 06:30 PM (0mRoj)
702
667
Which court are you talking about? The one that says Obamacare and abortion are constitutional?
Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at August 12, 2016 06:24 PM (R+30W)
?????
I don't like all their decisions, but unless your planning Insurrection, I don't get your point.
Posted by: Nevergiveup at August 12, 2016 06:25 PM (Ozsfq)
++++
The point is that nobody was discussing SCOTUS rulings. Just because the feds are acting outside the constitution with impunity, doesn't mean people aren't justified in objecting. War on drugs or not.
Which court are you talking about? The one that says Obamacare and abortion are constitutional?
Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at August 12, 2016 06:24 PM (R+30W)
?????
I don't like all their decisions, but unless your planning Insurrection, I don't get your point.
Posted by: Nevergiveup at August 12, 2016 06:25 PM (Ozsfq)
++++
The point is that nobody was discussing SCOTUS rulings. Just because the feds are acting outside the constitution with impunity, doesn't mean people aren't justified in objecting. War on drugs or not.
Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at August 12, 2016 06:31 PM (R+30W)
703
I get what your saying, but on a practical level, the Supreme Court interpreting the Constitution ( correctly or incorrectly) is The Law of the land.
------------
I understand. I just pushback wherever I can. I'm just one man commenting on a blog where most people already understand the concept.
------------
I understand. I just pushback wherever I can. I'm just one man commenting on a blog where most people already understand the concept.
Posted by: SH at August 12, 2016 06:31 PM (gmeXX)
704
>> Oh no, are we gonna be seeing Pelosi' s nekkid
>> selfies now?
You mean the ones she sent Weiner?
If you'll excuse me I need to throw this keyboard in the garbage now, there's no way to clean it.
>> selfies now?
You mean the ones she sent Weiner?
If you'll excuse me I need to throw this keyboard in the garbage now, there's no way to clean it.
Posted by: JEM at August 12, 2016 06:31 PM (o+SC1)
705
@642: "Take it to Court. Has it been ruled unconstitutional?"
Go to the government to ask the government to limit the power of the government. Yup, works like a charm every time. Remember, these are the guys who determined that growing your own wheat on your own land qualifies as interstate commerce, because by doing so you aren't buying wheat from someone else.
Go to the government to ask the government to limit the power of the government. Yup, works like a charm every time. Remember, these are the guys who determined that growing your own wheat on your own land qualifies as interstate commerce, because by doing so you aren't buying wheat from someone else.
Posted by: FaCubeItches at August 12, 2016 06:32 PM (rznWS)
706
People being accountable for failure, and being
allowed to fail, is the definition of the free-market. That bailout was
anti-free-market.
Posted by: Brian in New Orleans at August 12, 2016 06:27 PM (sqHNm)
Starting with the Fair Housing Act in 1968 (?) and continuing into the various market-distorting congressional actions, the mortgage industry was turned into a monster by congress.
That bankers are smarter and more nimble is not the problem.
The problem is government interference in a very simple transaction.
allowed to fail, is the definition of the free-market. That bailout was
anti-free-market.
Posted by: Brian in New Orleans at August 12, 2016 06:27 PM (sqHNm)
Starting with the Fair Housing Act in 1968 (?) and continuing into the various market-distorting congressional actions, the mortgage industry was turned into a monster by congress.
That bankers are smarter and more nimble is not the problem.
The problem is government interference in a very simple transaction.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at August 12, 2016 06:32 PM (Zu3d9)
707
Particularly, the techniques in which the burden of proof is inverted, and instead of the government having to prove that citizens are doing something wrong, citizens have to demonstrate to the government why they are allowed to do what they are doing. That is my point.
----------------
Generally, when the government tries to "solve" something, liberty loses.
----------------
Generally, when the government tries to "solve" something, liberty loses.
Posted by: SH at August 12, 2016 06:33 PM (gmeXX)
708
>>People being accountable for failure, and being allowed to fail, is the definition of the free-market. That bailout was anti-free-market.
You left out the part about the government causing the mortgage bubble and crash. The banks were the agents but it was the feds with their red line bullshit reports that forced banks to make bad loans and then allowed the banks to package those shitty loans and send them out into the world economy like so many ticking time bombs.
You want to talk about never paying a price for that, it was the Bubba Clinton administration that started the bullshit rolling including Obama clone Deval Patrick who was in charge of forcing banks to comply.
Bubba is more likely than not going to be back in the White House in January.
You left out the part about the government causing the mortgage bubble and crash. The banks were the agents but it was the feds with their red line bullshit reports that forced banks to make bad loans and then allowed the banks to package those shitty loans and send them out into the world economy like so many ticking time bombs.
You want to talk about never paying a price for that, it was the Bubba Clinton administration that started the bullshit rolling including Obama clone Deval Patrick who was in charge of forcing banks to comply.
Bubba is more likely than not going to be back in the White House in January.
Posted by: JackStraw at August 12, 2016 06:33 PM (/tuJf)
709
Sweden played a very smart game and won fair and square.
Posted by: Nevergiveup at August 12, 2016 06:07 PM (Ozsfq)
============================================
You sure you're talking about Sweden?
Posted by: Nevergiveup at August 12, 2016 06:07 PM (Ozsfq)
============================================
You sure you're talking about Sweden?
Posted by: grammie winger at August 12, 2016 06:33 PM (dFi94)
710
Irving Kristol must have been a super anti Semite then three of his seven books had neo-conservatism in their title. Out of curiosity what separates your concern trolling from SJW PC virtue signaling?
Absolutely nothing.
Absolutely nothing.
Posted by: Sam Haysom at August 12, 2016 06:33 PM (4v2Bk)
711
The problem is government interference in a very simple transaction.
---------------------
I would add combined with the moral decay of the populace.
The problem is government interference in a very simple transaction.
---------------------
I would add combined with the moral decay of the populace.
Posted by: Mortimer at August 12, 2016 06:34 PM (zu88C)
712
For the record ... I would NOT tap Peggy Noonan.
Bringing my Do Not Tap List up to, let me see, yes. Seven. The number is seven.
Bringing my Do Not Tap List up to, let me see, yes. Seven. The number is seven.
Posted by: ScoggDog at August 12, 2016 06:34 PM (jyInK)
713
Guns and ex-wives
Mossbergs and Icebergs
Mossbergs and Icebergs
Posted by: wth at August 12, 2016 06:34 PM (HgMAr)
714
With the Dem congress cell phones... I'd like to call a couple of then and give them a talking to...
Posted by: donna at August 12, 2016 06:34 PM (O2RFr)
715
The point is that nobody was discussing SCOTUS rulings. Just because the feds are acting outside the constitution with impunity, doesn't mean people aren't justified in objecting. War on drugs or not.
Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at August 12, 2016 06:31 PM (R+30W)
If the Supreme Court has ruled it's Constitutional then it is not "Outside The Constitution".
Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at August 12, 2016 06:31 PM (R+30W)
If the Supreme Court has ruled it's Constitutional then it is not "Outside The Constitution".
Posted by: Nevergiveup at August 12, 2016 06:34 PM (Ozsfq)
716
I'll grant, for the purposes of your argument, that you are correct.
But you choose illegal immigration as the test case to roll back intrusive government?
That's just retarded.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at August 12, 2016 06:28 PM (Zu3d9)
No. I am suggesting that we learn from recent history, and don't fall for the same Patriot Act/War on Drugs nonsense. I absolutely want to roll back intrusive government manifested in the War on Drugs and the Patriot Act. I also don't want to see it grown any further with any upcoming attempts to crack down on illegals.
I'll grant, for the purposes of your argument, that you are correct.
But you choose illegal immigration as the test case to roll back intrusive government?
That's just retarded.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at August 12, 2016 06:28 PM (Zu3d9)
No. I am suggesting that we learn from recent history, and don't fall for the same Patriot Act/War on Drugs nonsense. I absolutely want to roll back intrusive government manifested in the War on Drugs and the Patriot Act. I also don't want to see it grown any further with any upcoming attempts to crack down on illegals.
Posted by: chemjeff at August 12, 2016 06:34 PM (uAvJJ)
717
I think we need to amend the Constitution; All persons suspected of social engineering beyond their solemn oath will be punched in the dick daily until death.
Posted by: Fritz at August 12, 2016 06:35 PM (WYh6/)
718
We are drowning in a sea of lies and deceit.
Posted by: Robert Eggplant at August 12, 2016 06:35 PM (Tyii7)
719
Generally, when the government tries to "solve" something, liberty loses.
Posted by: SH at August 12, 2016 06:33 PM (gmeXX)
"Generally?" I would argue, "always."
But extending constitutional protections to illegals is not a good idea, no matter what.
Posted by: SH at August 12, 2016 06:33 PM (gmeXX)
"Generally?" I would argue, "always."
But extending constitutional protections to illegals is not a good idea, no matter what.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at August 12, 2016 06:35 PM (Zu3d9)
Posted by: Blanco Basura at August 12, 2016 06:36 PM (4WhSY)
721
I for one don't think the Patriot Act was nonsense.
Posted by: Nevergiveup at August 12, 2016 06:36 PM (Ozsfq)
722
No. I am suggesting that we learn from recent history, and don't fall for the same Patriot Act/War on Drugs nonsense. I absolutely want to roll back intrusive government manifested in the War on Drugs and the Patriot Act. I also don't want to see it grown any further with any upcoming attempts to crack down on illegals.
--------------
This seems like a fair critique. It is one of the reasons why I am against e-verify, which many see no problem with.
--------------
This seems like a fair critique. It is one of the reasons why I am against e-verify, which many see no problem with.
Posted by: SH at August 12, 2016 06:36 PM (gmeXX)
723
On this day in history, at approximately 6:29 EST, I completely agreed with chemjeff's comment.
Posted by: Mortimer at August 12, 2016 06:30 PM (zu88C)
Why thank you.
I knew you'd come around eventually.
Posted by: Mortimer at August 12, 2016 06:30 PM (zu88C)
Why thank you.
I knew you'd come around eventually.
Posted by: chemjeff at August 12, 2016 06:36 PM (uAvJJ)
Posted by: JackStraw at August 12, 2016 06:36 PM (/tuJf)
725
ace, I'm with you in general sentiment but I think you've got some details of your argument wrong.
Rand did not propose a cast system. Yes, she drew a clean line between those who have ability and choose to do things and those who feel entitled to things.
I'd argued yesterday that I fully support solid borders and launching those who are here illegally back over a yuuuge Trumpian wall with a catapult. You willingly broke the law. I have no sympathy for you and you have no rights.
Following that, I am in favor of an immigration system that is more like Ellis Island in olden times. "Got any diseases? Do you have a reliable means to support yourself here (or someone who is taking responsibility for you)? Do you understand that you're leaving whatever stupidity your prior country believed in behind you, agree that you are here because you want something else, and agree to live according to U.S. law? Yes? Come on in."
As an employer, I want to hire Americans. It makes absolute sense to hire Americans, if for no other reason, than they are more likely to understand what the fuck is going on around here and it's far more convenient.
That said, a LOT of people are putting themselves out of jobs due to the elites sentiment that you incorrectly assign to Randian ideals. The Rand villians are the elites you start to describe: I am important because I have credentials and paper and belong to a special group. I am so special that I am exempt from all things peasant and I am chosen to rule peasants. Not because I hate peasants. No. They depend on me to think for them and, I , being charitable, will direct them in the correct ways while they support us with their labor. See how charitable I am?
Cost of labor is determined by the price of whatever is produced by that labor. You can be a doctor with $1 million in debt, a giant mortgage, and a Ferrari... but if you have no patients because you killed everyone that came to you... you have no income.
American liberals have decided that their credentials, debts, expenses, potential, special-snowflakeness entitles them to something more. It doesn't. Simply being a born resident doesn't entitle you to anything. You get paid for the value of what you produce. Bitching that other people are willing to work for that value and you can't afford to because you have a gazillion dollars in student loan debt does not change the value of the end product.
I completely agree that it gets more expensive by the day to simply get by. The "why" of this isn't because evil corporations refuse to pay enough. The "why" of things being expensive and getting more expensive by the second is people demanding more compensation for producing the same or less.
Rand did not propose a cast system. Yes, she drew a clean line between those who have ability and choose to do things and those who feel entitled to things.
I'd argued yesterday that I fully support solid borders and launching those who are here illegally back over a yuuuge Trumpian wall with a catapult. You willingly broke the law. I have no sympathy for you and you have no rights.
Following that, I am in favor of an immigration system that is more like Ellis Island in olden times. "Got any diseases? Do you have a reliable means to support yourself here (or someone who is taking responsibility for you)? Do you understand that you're leaving whatever stupidity your prior country believed in behind you, agree that you are here because you want something else, and agree to live according to U.S. law? Yes? Come on in."
As an employer, I want to hire Americans. It makes absolute sense to hire Americans, if for no other reason, than they are more likely to understand what the fuck is going on around here and it's far more convenient.
That said, a LOT of people are putting themselves out of jobs due to the elites sentiment that you incorrectly assign to Randian ideals. The Rand villians are the elites you start to describe: I am important because I have credentials and paper and belong to a special group. I am so special that I am exempt from all things peasant and I am chosen to rule peasants. Not because I hate peasants. No. They depend on me to think for them and, I , being charitable, will direct them in the correct ways while they support us with their labor. See how charitable I am?
Cost of labor is determined by the price of whatever is produced by that labor. You can be a doctor with $1 million in debt, a giant mortgage, and a Ferrari... but if you have no patients because you killed everyone that came to you... you have no income.
American liberals have decided that their credentials, debts, expenses, potential, special-snowflakeness entitles them to something more. It doesn't. Simply being a born resident doesn't entitle you to anything. You get paid for the value of what you produce. Bitching that other people are willing to work for that value and you can't afford to because you have a gazillion dollars in student loan debt does not change the value of the end product.
I completely agree that it gets more expensive by the day to simply get by. The "why" of this isn't because evil corporations refuse to pay enough. The "why" of things being expensive and getting more expensive by the second is people demanding more compensation for producing the same or less.
Posted by: Damiano at August 12, 2016 06:36 PM (71OEY)
Posted by: ScoggDog at August 12, 2016 06:36 PM (jyInK)
727
>> Bringing my Do Not Tap List up to, let me see, yes.
>> Seven. The number is seven.
You forgot Andrea Mitchell.
>> Seven. The number is seven.
You forgot Andrea Mitchell.
Posted by: JEM at August 12, 2016 06:37 PM (o+SC1)
728
I've always loathed people that can only look at an issue through the prism of if it benefits them or not.
A small cabal in DC have been doing this for a while.
A small cabal in DC have been doing this for a while.
Posted by: Maritime at August 12, 2016 06:37 PM (u2zpL)
729
[Noonan]'s good at feigning compassion for them, but she's been mailing it in for years.
That. I recall her article "a separate peace" in 2005, which excoriated the Northeast elites for pulling up the ladders after themselves. And what does she do in 2008 but support that messiah of the New Class: Barack Obama, Chewer of Dogs.
She's basically Daniel Patrick Moynihan in a dress. She'll accurately diagnose the nation's sociological problems, and will turn around and support them anyway because it's easier and she's a lazy coward.
That. I recall her article "a separate peace" in 2005, which excoriated the Northeast elites for pulling up the ladders after themselves. And what does she do in 2008 but support that messiah of the New Class: Barack Obama, Chewer of Dogs.
She's basically Daniel Patrick Moynihan in a dress. She'll accurately diagnose the nation's sociological problems, and will turn around and support them anyway because it's easier and she's a lazy coward.
Posted by: boulder terlit hobo at August 12, 2016 06:37 PM (6FqZa)
730
But extending constitutional protections to illegals is not a good idea, no matter what.
--------------
I'm not sure if CJ is limiting to this, but I am worried that we may lose constitutional protections in the effort to "solve" our illegal immigration problem.
--------------
I'm not sure if CJ is limiting to this, but I am worried that we may lose constitutional protections in the effort to "solve" our illegal immigration problem.
Posted by: SH at August 12, 2016 06:37 PM (gmeXX)
Posted by: donna at August 12, 2016 06:37 PM (O2RFr)
732
I also don't want to see it grown any further with any upcoming attempts to crack down on illegals.
Yes, they are all good boys. Every one of them.
Yes, they are all good boys. Every one of them.
Posted by: Jen Psocki at August 12, 2016 06:37 PM (Tyii7)
733
But you choose illegal immigration as the test case to roll back intrusive government?
---------
I would agree with ANY rolling back of intrusive government. Even if it doesn't affect me personally.
Especially so.
But you choose illegal immigration as the test case to roll back intrusive government?
---------
I would agree with ANY rolling back of intrusive government. Even if it doesn't affect me personally.
Especially so.
Posted by: Mortimer at August 12, 2016 06:37 PM (zu88C)
734
Maybe Noonan is reading Ace and borrowing a little? Good stuff anyway.
Corporations are people too ... very special, more equal people.
"They" complain of Trump as protectionist, so I've been trying the phrase "corporate protectionism". It is the corporations that can avoid all the "better world" policies, taxes, reg's, that Americans are burdened with, for our own good.
But corporations are protected from those better world burdens, as they use slaves in countries that pollute, that have crappy labor laws, no pension plans, no welfare, currency manipulation AND those countries may be enemies using the profits to kill us, in due time. Yet we support them with tariff free purchases ... and get silicone injected shrimp full of illegal (here) drugs, and lead paint toys, and stolen patents.
Corporate protectionism is what we have now, mislabeled "free trade". They pay top dollar to Hillary and friends.
Corporations are people too ... very special, more equal people.
"They" complain of Trump as protectionist, so I've been trying the phrase "corporate protectionism". It is the corporations that can avoid all the "better world" policies, taxes, reg's, that Americans are burdened with, for our own good.
But corporations are protected from those better world burdens, as they use slaves in countries that pollute, that have crappy labor laws, no pension plans, no welfare, currency manipulation AND those countries may be enemies using the profits to kill us, in due time. Yet we support them with tariff free purchases ... and get silicone injected shrimp full of illegal (here) drugs, and lead paint toys, and stolen patents.
Corporate protectionism is what we have now, mislabeled "free trade". They pay top dollar to Hillary and friends.
Posted by: illiniwek at August 12, 2016 06:38 PM (l6e0e)
735
If someone shows up at a voting booth and has to have the ballot translated for them, I think it's safe to say I'd want to see proof of citizenship.
Posted by: grammie winger at August 12, 2016 06:38 PM (dFi94)
736
I heard Hope got reamed by the Swedes on the radio, but looking it up (or up it), it says the score was 1 - 1, but with the Swedes on top, Hope and the girls on the bottom.
How does this work?
I would pay money to see the Swedish Bikini Cops dominate Hope Solo, though.
How does this work?
I would pay money to see the Swedish Bikini Cops dominate Hope Solo, though.
Posted by: publius (not Breitbart publius) at August 12, 2016 06:38 PM (DW+jj)
737
>> I for one don't think the Patriot Act was nonsense.
Not nonsense, but perhaps penny-wise and pound-foolish.
And, really - any product of the administration that coined 'religion of peace' needs to be looked at with a gimlet-eyed skepticism.
Not nonsense, but perhaps penny-wise and pound-foolish.
And, really - any product of the administration that coined 'religion of peace' needs to be looked at with a gimlet-eyed skepticism.
Posted by: JEM at August 12, 2016 06:39 PM (o+SC1)
738
No. I am suggesting that we learn from recent history, and don't fall for the same Patriot Act/War on Drugs nonsense. I absolutely want to roll back intrusive government manifested in the War on Drugs and the Patriot Act. I also don't want to see it grown any further with any upcoming attempts to crack down on illegals.
Posted by: chemjeff
The erosion of trust in law and Congress is going to be a bit more problematic than another Patriot Act.
The Patriot Act was and is a stupid ball of well-intentioned crap, but, buddy, you don't want to even contemplate an era where the entire system of government considers law as optional.
We are headed down that path right the fuck now.
Posted by: chemjeff
The erosion of trust in law and Congress is going to be a bit more problematic than another Patriot Act.
The Patriot Act was and is a stupid ball of well-intentioned crap, but, buddy, you don't want to even contemplate an era where the entire system of government considers law as optional.
We are headed down that path right the fuck now.
Posted by: weft cut-loop at August 12, 2016 06:39 PM (9sySV)
739
Years back, Steven den Beste had an excellent summary of transnational progressivism:
Link
Note that part of this progressivism is the intentional reinforcement of tribes with prescribed tribal thinking ("stay in your box, peasant!"). By keeping the masses in smaller tribes, you can break apart the electorate to the point that no one tribe can again claim an electoral majority, thus neccesitating the enlightened intervention of the Uber-class to forge coalitions.
Link
Note that part of this progressivism is the intentional reinforcement of tribes with prescribed tribal thinking ("stay in your box, peasant!"). By keeping the masses in smaller tribes, you can break apart the electorate to the point that no one tribe can again claim an electoral majority, thus neccesitating the enlightened intervention of the Uber-class to forge coalitions.
Posted by: Abbie Normal at August 12, 2016 06:39 PM (v5uOx)
740
Well off to watch the game and get ready for tomorrow
Posted by: Nevergiveup at August 12, 2016 06:39 PM (Ozsfq)
741
I am arguing, and concerned, that many of the same techniques used to fight terrorism and fight the war on drugs, based on recent history, will be employed to track down illegals. Particularly, the techniques in which the burden of proof is inverted, and instead of the government having to prove that citizens are doing something wrong, citizens have to demonstrate to the government why they are allowed to do what they are doing. That is my point.
Posted by: chemjeff at August 12, 2016 06:30 PM (uAvJJ)
++++
Except that proving you are here legally is a minor burden. Regardless of what the Left says about how raaaaacist is is to provide ID to vote, for example, proving your identity is easy. It's not like anyone needs to search your home, car, person, or writings to do so. They ask to see ID, you show it. And even then, law enforcement has to have a hook to ID you. You are suspected of a crime, or you are seeking something from the government are the most common examples.
Posted by: chemjeff at August 12, 2016 06:30 PM (uAvJJ)
++++
Except that proving you are here legally is a minor burden. Regardless of what the Left says about how raaaaacist is is to provide ID to vote, for example, proving your identity is easy. It's not like anyone needs to search your home, car, person, or writings to do so. They ask to see ID, you show it. And even then, law enforcement has to have a hook to ID you. You are suspected of a crime, or you are seeking something from the government are the most common examples.
Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at August 12, 2016 06:39 PM (R+30W)
742
You're on fire, Ace! Gold Medal performances.
Posted by: Afroman at August 12, 2016 06:39 PM (s1kJZ)
743
But extending constitutional protections to illegals is not a good idea, no matter what.
--------------
I'm not sure if CJ is limiting to this, but I am worried that we may lose constitutional protections in the effort to "solve" our illegal immigration problem.
Posted by: SH at August 12, 2016 06:37 PM (gmeXX)
--------------
For me, e-verify is such an example. I think it will do more harm than good, lawful companies are going to get caught up in its web, the concept will grow and be abused, etc.
--------------
I'm not sure if CJ is limiting to this, but I am worried that we may lose constitutional protections in the effort to "solve" our illegal immigration problem.
Posted by: SH at August 12, 2016 06:37 PM (gmeXX)
--------------
For me, e-verify is such an example. I think it will do more harm than good, lawful companies are going to get caught up in its web, the concept will grow and be abused, etc.
Posted by: SH at August 12, 2016 06:39 PM (gmeXX)
744
@678: "Soccer would be a lot more interesting if there were more fights, like in hockey.
Everyone loves a good riot."
The teams play soccer while their hooligan supporters fight - all on the same field. And, borrowing from Fight Club, "matches will go on as long as they need to."
Everyone loves a good riot."
The teams play soccer while their hooligan supporters fight - all on the same field. And, borrowing from Fight Club, "matches will go on as long as they need to."
Posted by: FaCubeItches at August 12, 2016 06:39 PM (rznWS)
745
744 @678: "Soccer would be a lot more interesting if there were more fights, like in hockey.
Soccer is a snooze to me...
Soccer is a snooze to me...
Posted by: donna at August 12, 2016 06:40 PM (O2RFr)
746
I just saw something on Michelle Malkin's site about the Clintons releasing their tax return for 2015. They made $10 million plus.
Wow! A sacrificial life of public service sure is rewarding isn't it?
I don't ever want to hear a leftie complain about how much professional athletes. Justin Verlaender has done more to earn his salary (and Kate Upton) than the Clintons have done to earn theirs.
Wow! A sacrificial life of public service sure is rewarding isn't it?
I don't ever want to hear a leftie complain about how much professional athletes. Justin Verlaender has done more to earn his salary (and Kate Upton) than the Clintons have done to earn theirs.
Posted by: Northernlurker at August 12, 2016 06:40 PM (hJrjt)
747
No I'm talking about the vast, rampant fraud in the loan industry. Mortgage fraud on every level for years causing the largest asset bubble in the history of the world. Not a single person was held accountable and we're all paying the price. Now it's starting to happen again.
Not so sure it's happening again. Thought I'd do the prudent thing and begin paying down multiple loans with one quick heloc. Credit score near 800. Loan to value -- 10% or less of value.
No deal. They wanted conventional fixed rate mortgage.
I think they're really tight right now. Choking off the economy tight as a sphincter.
Didn't faze me, either way. Almost out of debt. Thought I'd pump the economy a little. I'll wait till DT is in office.
Not so sure it's happening again. Thought I'd do the prudent thing and begin paying down multiple loans with one quick heloc. Credit score near 800. Loan to value -- 10% or less of value.
No deal. They wanted conventional fixed rate mortgage.
I think they're really tight right now. Choking off the economy tight as a sphincter.
Didn't faze me, either way. Almost out of debt. Thought I'd pump the economy a little. I'll wait till DT is in office.
Posted by: free range 'sorta' conservative but not 'true' conservative at August 12, 2016 06:40 PM (ZnIt3)
748
illiniwek, I hope your "corporate protectionism" becomes a meme.
Posted by: boulder terlit hobo at August 12, 2016 06:40 PM (6FqZa)
749
>> I would pay money to see the Swedish Bikini Cops
>> dominate Hope Solo, though.
"Hope, the softball team is here."
"Did they?"
"Yeah, the aluminum ones."
>> dominate Hope Solo, though.
"Hope, the softball team is here."
"Did they?"
"Yeah, the aluminum ones."
Posted by: JEM at August 12, 2016 06:40 PM (o+SC1)
750
Arrgg! The hyperlink didn't take, and they system won't let me insert a plain text link.
Try this: http://denbeste.nu/cd_log_entries/2002/08/Transnationalprogressivis.shtml
Try this: http://denbeste.nu/cd_log_entries/2002/08/Transnationalprogressivis.shtml
Posted by: Abbie Normal at August 12, 2016 06:40 PM (v5uOx)
751
Sadly ... age is Andrea Mitchell's only disqualifier.
And I would probably give her a good hate screwing. So no, she is not on the Do Not Tap List.
And I would probably give her a good hate screwing. So no, she is not on the Do Not Tap List.
Posted by: ScoggDog at August 12, 2016 06:41 PM (jyInK)
752
Posted by: Damiano at August 12, 2016 06:36 PM (71OEY)
I don't disagree with anything you have written, but you are discussing two separate issues.
Toss illegal Jose Gonzalez out of the country immediately.
Then, when he comes back legally and demonstrates to me that he can drywall my addition cheaper and better than John Smith...he's hired.
I don't disagree with anything you have written, but you are discussing two separate issues.
Toss illegal Jose Gonzalez out of the country immediately.
Then, when he comes back legally and demonstrates to me that he can drywall my addition cheaper and better than John Smith...he's hired.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at August 12, 2016 06:41 PM (Zu3d9)
753
Steyn, from 2003:
"I love borders, the more the merrier -- town lines, county, state, and, of course, national. Borders symbolize one of the few remaining constraints on government: You don't like the grade school here in town? Move ten miles up the road. You don't want to pay Vermont sales tax? Drive over the river and shop in New Hampshire. Arianna Huffington huffs against "tax loopholes for fat cats," but I'd say the ability to rent a post-office box in Bermuda or the Cayman Islands is a "loophole" in one of the original 16th-century senses -- an aperture to let in light and fresh air. The fact that there's somewhere else to go to is the ultimate limitation on government. Borders give people choices -- and, to put it in a bumper sticker, "I'm Pro-Choice and I Vote with My Feet." When starry-eyed utopians speak of a "world without borders," you can pretty much guess what kind of a place the one-world one-party state would be, with tax rates starting at more than 50 percent, where they are in Sweden right now.
That's why Justice O'Connor's indifference to jurisdictional integrity and partiality to foreigners is not just a kinky fetish but something philosophically incompatible with the job she's meant to be doing. If you wanted to construct the precise opposite of the U.S. Constitution, it would look an awful lot like "international law." The former is a document that limits the state's grip on the people, the latter is designed to ensure they can never wiggle free, no matter where they go. "International law" is the new colonialism, the imposition on the world's peoples of the moral certainties of a remote, unaccountable Western elite -- indeed, one far less tolerant of local customs and culture than the old-school imperialists. The Europeans haven't had much luck imposing their laws on Saudi Arabia and Sudan but, thanks to Justice O'Connor, other backward jurisdictions like Texas and Alabama are about to be whipped into line."
"I love borders, the more the merrier -- town lines, county, state, and, of course, national. Borders symbolize one of the few remaining constraints on government: You don't like the grade school here in town? Move ten miles up the road. You don't want to pay Vermont sales tax? Drive over the river and shop in New Hampshire. Arianna Huffington huffs against "tax loopholes for fat cats," but I'd say the ability to rent a post-office box in Bermuda or the Cayman Islands is a "loophole" in one of the original 16th-century senses -- an aperture to let in light and fresh air. The fact that there's somewhere else to go to is the ultimate limitation on government. Borders give people choices -- and, to put it in a bumper sticker, "I'm Pro-Choice and I Vote with My Feet." When starry-eyed utopians speak of a "world without borders," you can pretty much guess what kind of a place the one-world one-party state would be, with tax rates starting at more than 50 percent, where they are in Sweden right now.
That's why Justice O'Connor's indifference to jurisdictional integrity and partiality to foreigners is not just a kinky fetish but something philosophically incompatible with the job she's meant to be doing. If you wanted to construct the precise opposite of the U.S. Constitution, it would look an awful lot like "international law." The former is a document that limits the state's grip on the people, the latter is designed to ensure they can never wiggle free, no matter where they go. "International law" is the new colonialism, the imposition on the world's peoples of the moral certainties of a remote, unaccountable Western elite -- indeed, one far less tolerant of local customs and culture than the old-school imperialists. The Europeans haven't had much luck imposing their laws on Saudi Arabia and Sudan but, thanks to Justice O'Connor, other backward jurisdictions like Texas and Alabama are about to be whipped into line."
Posted by: The Gipper Lives at August 12, 2016 06:41 PM (Ndje9)
754
I also don't want to see it grown any further with any upcoming attempts to crack down on illegals.
Yes, they are all good boys. Every one of them.
I'm sure Kate Steinle's dad would agree.
Yes, they are all good boys. Every one of them.
I'm sure Kate Steinle's dad would agree.
Posted by: rickb223 TEXIT at August 12, 2016 06:42 PM (UYkjZ)
Posted by: Mister Magoo's at August 12, 2016 06:42 PM (8PrS9)
756
744 @678: "Soccer would be a lot more interesting if there were more fights, like in hockey.
Everyone loves a good riot."
The teams play soccer while their hooligan supporters fight - all on the same field. And, borrowing from Fight Club, "matches will go on as long as they need to."
Posted by: FaCubeItches at August 12, 2016 06:39 PM (rznWS)
When I was in the U.K. 10 or 12 years ago I was advised to attend a rugby match rather soccer, because the stands would be safer.
Everyone loves a good riot."
The teams play soccer while their hooligan supporters fight - all on the same field. And, borrowing from Fight Club, "matches will go on as long as they need to."
Posted by: FaCubeItches at August 12, 2016 06:39 PM (rznWS)
When I was in the U.K. 10 or 12 years ago I was advised to attend a rugby match rather soccer, because the stands would be safer.
Posted by: Northernlurker at August 12, 2016 06:42 PM (hJrjt)
Posted by: garrett at August 12, 2016 06:43 PM (c1srJ)
758
I love borders, the more the merrier -- town lines, county, state, and, of course, national. Borders symbolize one of the few remaining constraints on government
-----------
Well said.
-----------
Well said.
Posted by: SH at August 12, 2016 06:44 PM (gmeXX)
759
I don't understand the relationship between someone wanting smaller government and then deciding the best avenue for that is simply accepting lawlessness.
Seems a huge disconnect.
It's sort of like saying you're a conservative for lower taxes, but your fine with that not actually being made law, just that the IRS would selectively choose who they will enforce current tax laws on
Seems a huge disconnect.
It's sort of like saying you're a conservative for lower taxes, but your fine with that not actually being made law, just that the IRS would selectively choose who they will enforce current tax laws on
Posted by: Maritime at August 12, 2016 06:44 PM (u2zpL)
760
Thread winner -
436 At this point in time I'd be willing to acquiesce to the idea that every self-proclaimed internet 'professor' be permitted to bone every illegal immigrant research assistant within arms reach if it would stop the incessant trolling.
436 At this point in time I'd be willing to acquiesce to the idea that every self-proclaimed internet 'professor' be permitted to bone every illegal immigrant research assistant within arms reach if it would stop the incessant trolling.
Posted by: Grumpy old man at August 12, 2016 06:46 PM (NPLj5)
761
Fine or arrest all those who hire illegal aliens.
Cut off all government cheese to all illegal aliens.
Build a wall with moats, machine guns, claymores and minefields.
Have Bobby Flay teach chemjeff how to cook a steak.
Teach Hope Solo how to properly shave her bunghole.
Cut off all government cheese to all illegal aliens.
Build a wall with moats, machine guns, claymores and minefields.
Have Bobby Flay teach chemjeff how to cook a steak.
Teach Hope Solo how to properly shave her bunghole.
Posted by: Hairyback Guy at August 12, 2016 06:46 PM (ej1L0)
Posted by: AltonJackson at August 12, 2016 06:46 PM (KCxzN)
763
Except that proving you are here legally is a minor
burden. Regardless of what the Left says about how raaaaacist is is to
provide ID to vote, for example, proving your identity is easy. It's not
like anyone needs to search your home, car, person, or writings to do
so. They ask to see ID, you show it. And even then, law enforcement has
to have a hook to ID you. You are suspected of a crime, or you are
seeking something from the government are the most common examples.
Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at August 12, 2016 06:39 PM (R+30W)
I agree that it is a minor burden. But I am jealous of my liberties nonetheless. Right now, if I am not doing anything wrong, and a LEO says "show me proof of citizenship", I have every right to say "go fuck yourself" to the officer. (Not wise, but I have the right.) That is protected by the Fourth Amendment.
Now, if we go by your example from above:
So, if law enforcement were to go do something about the group of 10-20
young, latino males loitering on the boulevard in front of the Home
Depot, that would be a situation where law enforcement would be
justified in ID'ing the suspects. And shipping them out if they are not
here legally.
Incidentally, loitering is not per se illegal in this country. See Chicago v. Morales. So standing in front of the Home Depot, unless the property management wanted them evicted, is not necessarily a crime. Nevertheless, if 1 of those 10-20 young Latino males is a citizen, he has the right to refuse to provide ID. So how does LEO approach that group of males to try to figure out who is an illegal without violating the rights of the 1 or 2 of them who might be citizens?
burden. Regardless of what the Left says about how raaaaacist is is to
provide ID to vote, for example, proving your identity is easy. It's not
like anyone needs to search your home, car, person, or writings to do
so. They ask to see ID, you show it. And even then, law enforcement has
to have a hook to ID you. You are suspected of a crime, or you are
seeking something from the government are the most common examples.
Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at August 12, 2016 06:39 PM (R+30W)
I agree that it is a minor burden. But I am jealous of my liberties nonetheless. Right now, if I am not doing anything wrong, and a LEO says "show me proof of citizenship", I have every right to say "go fuck yourself" to the officer. (Not wise, but I have the right.) That is protected by the Fourth Amendment.
Now, if we go by your example from above:
So, if law enforcement were to go do something about the group of 10-20
young, latino males loitering on the boulevard in front of the Home
Depot, that would be a situation where law enforcement would be
justified in ID'ing the suspects. And shipping them out if they are not
here legally.
Incidentally, loitering is not per se illegal in this country. See Chicago v. Morales. So standing in front of the Home Depot, unless the property management wanted them evicted, is not necessarily a crime. Nevertheless, if 1 of those 10-20 young Latino males is a citizen, he has the right to refuse to provide ID. So how does LEO approach that group of males to try to figure out who is an illegal without violating the rights of the 1 or 2 of them who might be citizens?
Posted by: chemjeff at August 12, 2016 06:46 PM (uAvJJ)
764
Speaking of HD, that Hope needs some work before she's HD ready.
Seriously, the score was a tie -- how do they decide the winner? Base-a-ball been a very, very good to me, but soccer, I don't know.
Seriously, the score was a tie -- how do they decide the winner? Base-a-ball been a very, very good to me, but soccer, I don't know.
Posted by: publius (not Breitbart publius) at August 12, 2016 06:47 PM (DW+jj)
765
I heard Hope got reamed by the Swedes on the radio, but looking it up
(or up it), it says the score was 1 - 1, but with the Swedes on top,
Hope and the girls on the bottom.
How does this work?
---
Decided by penalty kicks 4-3 in favor of the Swedes.
Notably the first time they had to resort to that in an olympic match.
(or up it), it says the score was 1 - 1, but with the Swedes on top,
Hope and the girls on the bottom.
How does this work?
---
Decided by penalty kicks 4-3 in favor of the Swedes.
Notably the first time they had to resort to that in an olympic match.
Posted by: Methos, AoSHQ commenter since 2006, now apperently nonvoting democrat at August 12, 2016 06:47 PM (3Liv/)
766
762 is it....safe?
g'early evenin', 'rons
Posted by: AltonJackson at August 12, 2016 06:46 PM (KCxzN)
Nothing's safe around here, AJ.
g'early evenin', 'rons
Posted by: AltonJackson at August 12, 2016 06:46 PM (KCxzN)
Nothing's safe around here, AJ.
Posted by: Insomniac at August 12, 2016 06:47 PM (0mRoj)
767
>>>Posted by: Thin Veneer Of Civility<<<
C'mon, you can do better than that. When it comes to Nancy you must let your creative juices flow.
C'mon, you can do better than that. When it comes to Nancy you must let your creative juices flow.
Posted by: Fritz at August 12, 2016 06:47 PM (WYh6/)
768
715 The point is that nobody was discussing SCOTUS rulings. Just because the feds are acting outside the constitution with impunity, doesn't mean people aren't justified in objecting. War on drugs or not.
Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at August 12, 2016 06:31 PM (R+30W)
If the Supreme Court has ruled it's Constitutional then it is not "Outside The Constitution".
Posted by: Nevergiveup at August 12, 2016 06:34 PM (Ozsfq)
++++
Nonsense.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_overruled_United_States_Supreme_Court_decisions
We might agree to follow what they rule because we are living in a society, but just because they say something does not mean it is objectively true. Look at that long list of decisions where they have changed their minds about what the constitution says. They don't need an amendment, they just need to change their minds.
Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at August 12, 2016 06:31 PM (R+30W)
If the Supreme Court has ruled it's Constitutional then it is not "Outside The Constitution".
Posted by: Nevergiveup at August 12, 2016 06:34 PM (Ozsfq)
++++
Nonsense.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_overruled_United_States_Supreme_Court_decisions
We might agree to follow what they rule because we are living in a society, but just because they say something does not mean it is objectively true. Look at that long list of decisions where they have changed their minds about what the constitution says. They don't need an amendment, they just need to change their minds.
Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at August 12, 2016 06:48 PM (R+30W)
769
>> No deal. They wanted conventional fixed rate
>> mortgage.
We have a 30yr fixed first for roughly 15% of the value of the property (at approx 70% over current rates), a variable HELOC for about the same amount.
Credit score well over 800. Assets several times over what would be needed to pay off both. But what I'd really like to do is just refinance the first to current market rates.
Should I just call the lender and tell them "well, you give us a quarter-point over what you're giving on new loans or I just pay it off?"
>> mortgage.
We have a 30yr fixed first for roughly 15% of the value of the property (at approx 70% over current rates), a variable HELOC for about the same amount.
Credit score well over 800. Assets several times over what would be needed to pay off both. But what I'd really like to do is just refinance the first to current market rates.
Should I just call the lender and tell them "well, you give us a quarter-point over what you're giving on new loans or I just pay it off?"
Posted by: JEM at August 12, 2016 06:48 PM (o+SC1)
770
Siren at Drudge. Seems all democRats cells been hacked.
Posted by: CSMBigBird at August 12, 2016 06:49 PM (xInes)
771
I don't understand the relationship between someone wanting smaller
government and then deciding the best avenue for that is simply
accepting lawlessness.
Seems a huge disconnect.
I don't want lawlessness. Quite the opposite. I want laws that respect the liberty of citizens, and I want them actually enforced.
government and then deciding the best avenue for that is simply
accepting lawlessness.
Seems a huge disconnect.
I don't want lawlessness. Quite the opposite. I want laws that respect the liberty of citizens, and I want them actually enforced.
Posted by: chemjeff at August 12, 2016 06:49 PM (uAvJJ)
772
Damn Ace you are on fire. Great article.
Posted by: BomberCommand(WW2 Brits) at August 12, 2016 06:49 PM (7us0J)
773
Look at that long list of decisions where they have changed their minds about what the constitution says. They don't need an amendment, they just need to change their minds.
funny how the question "were you lying then, or are you now" never quite gets around to being asked during arguments before that court.
funny how the question "were you lying then, or are you now" never quite gets around to being asked during arguments before that court.
Posted by: boulder terlit hobo at August 12, 2016 06:49 PM (6FqZa)
774
but with the Swedes on top,
Hope and the girls on the bottom.
How does this work?
Well first you have to turn Google safe search off.
Hope and the girls on the bottom.
How does this work?
Well first you have to turn Google safe search off.
Posted by: wooga at August 12, 2016 06:49 PM (RUOyw)
775
>> Credit score well over 800. Assets several times
>> over what would be needed to pay off both. But
>> what I'd really like to do is just refinance the first to
>> current market rates.
The part I forgot:
assets are good but current income not remotely enough to qualify for the loan.
>> over what would be needed to pay off both. But
>> what I'd really like to do is just refinance the first to
>> current market rates.
The part I forgot:
assets are good but current income not remotely enough to qualify for the loan.
Posted by: JEM at August 12, 2016 06:49 PM (o+SC1)
776
All I know is there's an easy answer to our problems out there somewhere and the Elite just continue to ignore it.
Posted by: Baron Von Ottomatic at August 12, 2016 06:49 PM (fn3+8)
777
I *really* don't like seeing "Nancy" and "juices" mentioned in the same sentence
Posted by: boulder terlit hobo at August 12, 2016 06:50 PM (6FqZa)
778
Nevertheless, if 1 of those 10-20 young Latino males is a citizen, he
has the right to refuse to provide ID. So how does LEO approach that
group of males to try to figure out who is an illegal without violating
the rights of the 1 or 2 of them who might be citizens?
---
If he's hanging out with a bunch of illegals and didn't call the LEO in the first place, I'm not going to worry much about his inconvenience.
has the right to refuse to provide ID. So how does LEO approach that
group of males to try to figure out who is an illegal without violating
the rights of the 1 or 2 of them who might be citizens?
---
If he's hanging out with a bunch of illegals and didn't call the LEO in the first place, I'm not going to worry much about his inconvenience.
Posted by: Methos, AoSHQ commenter since 2006, now apperently nonvoting democrat at August 12, 2016 06:50 PM (3Liv/)
779
>> Siren at Drudge. Seems all democRats cells been
>> hacked.
As I said earlier, popcorn (POPC) is up 20 pts after-hours.
>> hacked.
As I said earlier, popcorn (POPC) is up 20 pts after-hours.
Posted by: JEM at August 12, 2016 06:50 PM (o+SC1)
780
Should I just call the lender and tell them "well, you give us a
quarter-point over what you're giving on new loans or I just pay it
off?"
Do it.
quarter-point over what you're giving on new loans or I just pay it
off?"
Do it.
Posted by: Blanco Basura at August 12, 2016 06:50 PM (4WhSY)
781
Seems a huge disconnect.
I don't want lawlessness. Quite the opposite. I want laws that respect the liberty of citizens, and I want them actually enforced.
----------
As with gun control, there are a long list of laws the government could enforce first before it is necessary to start potentially violating the rights of citizens.
I don't want lawlessness. Quite the opposite. I want laws that respect the liberty of citizens, and I want them actually enforced.
----------
As with gun control, there are a long list of laws the government could enforce first before it is necessary to start potentially violating the rights of citizens.
Posted by: SH at August 12, 2016 06:50 PM (gmeXX)
782
I think Thin Veneer Of Civility's post got nuked . . .
Posted by: boulder terlit hobo at August 12, 2016 06:50 PM (6FqZa)
Posted by: eleven at August 12, 2016 06:51 PM (qUNWi)
784
You are 100% crushing it today ace.
Someday, once I finally get mine from the lottery, I'm going to hit the tip jar like Rocco Sifredi hits redheads.
Someday, once I finally get mine from the lottery, I'm going to hit the tip jar like Rocco Sifredi hits redheads.
Posted by: Phone of kari at August 12, 2016 06:51 PM (wvBgH)
785
>> Decided by penalty kicks 4-3 in favor of the Swedes.
>> Notably the first time they had to resort to that in an olympic match.
Thanks -- now you mention it, I'd heard of the penalty kick tie breakers before, but didn't remember.
I think the team needs to drop Hope. There's a gal named Roxy I bet would be much better.
>> Notably the first time they had to resort to that in an olympic match.
Thanks -- now you mention it, I'd heard of the penalty kick tie breakers before, but didn't remember.
I think the team needs to drop Hope. There's a gal named Roxy I bet would be much better.
Posted by: publius (not Breitbart publius) at August 12, 2016 06:51 PM (DW+jj)
786
I saw Thin Veneer open for Stone Temple Phallacs at the Fox in Atlanta.
Posted by: CSMBigBird at August 12, 2016 06:52 PM (xInes)
787
Gettin close to fake football time.
Posted by: eleven at August 12, 2016 06:52 PM (qUNWi)
Posted by: Carlos Danger at August 12, 2016 06:52 PM (+wjl1)
789
If he's hanging out with a bunch of illegals and
didn't call the LEO in the first place, I'm not going to worry much
about his inconvenience.
Posted by: Methos, AoSHQ commenter since 2006, now apperently nonvoting democrat at August 12, 2016 06:50 PM (3Liv/)
Wrong answer.
didn't call the LEO in the first place, I'm not going to worry much
about his inconvenience.
Posted by: Methos, AoSHQ commenter since 2006, now apperently nonvoting democrat at August 12, 2016 06:50 PM (3Liv/)
Wrong answer.
Posted by: chemjeff at August 12, 2016 06:52 PM (uAvJJ)
790
Incidentally, loitering is not per se illegal in this country. See Chicago v. Morales. So standing in front of the Home Depot, unless the property management wanted them evicted, is not necessarily a crime. Nevertheless, if 1 of those 10-20 young Latino males is a citizen, he has the right to refuse to provide ID. So how does LEO approach that group of males to try to figure out who is an illegal without violating the rights of the 1 or 2 of them who might be citizens?
Posted by: chemjeff
It doesn't need to even get to that level. Once illegals figure out the jig is up, they will stop standing in front of Home Depots looking for work.
There's all sorts of small changes in the law that would create massive self-deporation.
#1 would be to make sure that all students are legally alllowed to be in the country.
I have to produce certain documentation to show my child qualifies to be part of a school district, proof of citizenship seems a small burden.
Posted by: chemjeff
It doesn't need to even get to that level. Once illegals figure out the jig is up, they will stop standing in front of Home Depots looking for work.
There's all sorts of small changes in the law that would create massive self-deporation.
#1 would be to make sure that all students are legally alllowed to be in the country.
I have to produce certain documentation to show my child qualifies to be part of a school district, proof of citizenship seems a small burden.
Posted by: Maritime at August 12, 2016 06:52 PM (u2zpL)
791
For me, e-verify is such an example. I think it will do more harm than good, lawful companies are going to get caught up in its web, the concept will grow and be abused, etc.
Posted by: SH at August 12, 2016 06:39 PM (gmeXX)
++++
It is already the case that companies are required by law to check a prospective new hire's document before hiring them. They are required to verify who the person is and that the person has a right to work in this country. For a citizen, the typical documents used are a DL for ID and a SS card to show right to work.
E-verify is just an internet connection to the DOJ, where the company inputs the document numbers into the website and DOJ runs them and then spits back a yea or nay as far as whether the docs are legit and if the hiring can proceed.
There is no web to get caught in. The companies are merely verifying the legitimacy of the documents they are already required to check.
Posted by: SH at August 12, 2016 06:39 PM (gmeXX)
++++
It is already the case that companies are required by law to check a prospective new hire's document before hiring them. They are required to verify who the person is and that the person has a right to work in this country. For a citizen, the typical documents used are a DL for ID and a SS card to show right to work.
E-verify is just an internet connection to the DOJ, where the company inputs the document numbers into the website and DOJ runs them and then spits back a yea or nay as far as whether the docs are legit and if the hiring can proceed.
There is no web to get caught in. The companies are merely verifying the legitimacy of the documents they are already required to check.
Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at August 12, 2016 06:53 PM (R+30W)
792
This thread smells like feet.
Posted by: steevy at August 12, 2016 06:54 PM (fA75F)
793
There is a close continuum between the Soviet creed, the EU creed and the US Democrat creed - "we are all one people, there should be no nation states, one central government taking and redistributing all resources in its socialist wisdom, etc".
Culture and family matter to ordinary folk who are not as obsessed by dogma as are neo-Soviet leaders like Obama and Merkel.
Culture and family matter to ordinary folk who are not as obsessed by dogma as are neo-Soviet leaders like Obama and Merkel.
Posted by: Sam at August 12, 2016 06:54 PM (nRWWi)
794
What I really don't understand is the leftists side argument that local law enforcement can't arrest a person fof illegal immigration. The way it is constantly explained its a federal law so only a federal officer can arrest for someone breaking it.
Posted by: Skip at August 12, 2016 06:54 PM (bksJQ)
795
Wrong answer.
---
How so? Turning them in is his patriotic duty, and lowers competition for his job, so it's doubly in his interest to do the right thing.
If he can't be bothered, than I can't be bothered on his behalf.
---
How so? Turning them in is his patriotic duty, and lowers competition for his job, so it's doubly in his interest to do the right thing.
If he can't be bothered, than I can't be bothered on his behalf.
Posted by: Methos, AoSHQ commenter since 2006, now apperently nonvoting democrat at August 12, 2016 06:55 PM (3Liv/)
Posted by: garrett at August 12, 2016 06:55 PM (c1srJ)
797
Posted by: grammie winger at August 12, 2016 06:38 PM (dFi94)
You can take the citizenship test in your native language after you are 50 years old.
You can take the citizenship test in your native language after you are 50 years old.
Posted by: CaliGirl at August 12, 2016 06:56 PM (fsFHj)
798
If he can't be bothered, than I can't be bothered on his behalf.
Posted by: Methos, AoSHQ commenter since 2006, now apperently nonvoting democrat at August 12, 2016 06:55 PM (3Liv/)
His liberties are your liberties.
Posted by: Methos, AoSHQ commenter since 2006, now apperently nonvoting democrat at August 12, 2016 06:55 PM (3Liv/)
His liberties are your liberties.
Posted by: chemjeff at August 12, 2016 06:56 PM (uAvJJ)
799
It is already the case that companies are required by law to check a prospective new hire's document before hiring them. They are required to verify who the person is and that the person has a right to work in this country. For a citizen, the typical documents used are a DL for ID and a SS card to show right to work.
E-verify is just an internet connection to the DOJ, where the company inputs the document numbers into the website and DOJ runs them and then spits back a yea or nay as far as whether the docs are legit and if the hiring can proceed.
There is no web to get caught in. The companies are merely verifying the legitimacy of the documents they are already required to check.
-----------
If there is already a law, why do we need a new one? And what if you don't have an internet connection? What qualifies as a business?
Will this be used for other purposes beyond immigration? I don't trust the government to not expand what is required.
And I think that is sort of CJ's point. Let's not tread on our liberties to solve a problem that can be solved in other ways.
E-verify is just an internet connection to the DOJ, where the company inputs the document numbers into the website and DOJ runs them and then spits back a yea or nay as far as whether the docs are legit and if the hiring can proceed.
There is no web to get caught in. The companies are merely verifying the legitimacy of the documents they are already required to check.
-----------
If there is already a law, why do we need a new one? And what if you don't have an internet connection? What qualifies as a business?
Will this be used for other purposes beyond immigration? I don't trust the government to not expand what is required.
And I think that is sort of CJ's point. Let's not tread on our liberties to solve a problem that can be solved in other ways.
Posted by: SH at August 12, 2016 06:57 PM (gmeXX)
800
Just to clarify: what Rand said is that you do not owe, intrinsically, anything to anyone other than transactions on a non-coercive basis. If you care to assist someone, great, but that must be done of your own free will. As soon as you make one person "owe" another person anything you have opened a Pandora's box which leads to statism and slavery. Rand is often examined very superficially in this context. For example another name for "selfish" is "rational self-interest". However, Rand thought of her role as a provocateur. Hence the language used and the references to work 60 and 70 years ago. Can you name any other philosophers from the post WWII era?
Posted by: brindle at August 12, 2016 06:57 PM (Baid6)
801
Posted by: Skip at August 12, 2016 06:54 PM (bksJQ)
They can notify ICE if they arrest the person.
They can notify ICE if they arrest the person.
Posted by: CaliGirl at August 12, 2016 06:57 PM (fsFHj)
802
I guess the ewok is at the gym, or pounding down some "craft" beer?
Posted by: Nip Sip at August 12, 2016 06:57 PM (F1iXz)
Posted by: ScoggDog at August 12, 2016 06:58 PM (jyInK)
804
Martime- You have to produce documentation for your children but the 67,000 illegals from last year alone don't , we are all paying for them.
Posted by: Ben Had at August 12, 2016 06:58 PM (X42pZ)
805
>> how are you going to fill that hole?
That gal named Roxy I was thinking has that more than covered. Holetending, goaltending, what difference does it really make at this point?
That gal named Roxy I was thinking has that more than covered. Holetending, goaltending, what difference does it really make at this point?
Posted by: publius (not Breitbart publius) at August 12, 2016 06:58 PM (DW+jj)
806
>>Nevertheless, if 1 of those 10-20 young Latino males is a citizen, he
has the right to refuse to provide ID. So how does LEO approach that
group of males to try to figure out who is an illegal without violating
the rights of the 1 or 2 of them who might be citizens?
Paco has the right to be an ass, just like any random professor commenting on the internet.
has the right to refuse to provide ID. So how does LEO approach that
group of males to try to figure out who is an illegal without violating
the rights of the 1 or 2 of them who might be citizens?
Paco has the right to be an ass, just like any random professor commenting on the internet.
Posted by: garrett at August 12, 2016 06:58 PM (c1srJ)
807
>> I guess the ewok is at the gym, or pounding down some "craft" beer?
Maybe he overdid it with the Coconut Oil and shit his Underoos, again?
Maybe he overdid it with the Coconut Oil and shit his Underoos, again?
Posted by: garrett at August 12, 2016 06:59 PM (c1srJ)
808
Should I just call the lender and tell them "well, you give us a quarter-point over what you're giving on new loans or I just pay it off?"Posted by: JEM at August 12, 2016 06:48 PM (o+SC1)
You can try 'the game' which is what we did -- as long as they're not trying to hit you with upfront fees. It's either a yes or no. It just seems as if it's so restrictive that only the people who don't need the money will be approved.
We really didn't need to lower an interest rate. Just consolidate two into one and pay them both off quicker. Either way, all debt gone in three years. It seemed a no brainer. No, they wanted security up the wazzu.
So we'll spend little, erase debt and Macy's etc can go to hell. Seems that's Obama plan.
You can try 'the game' which is what we did -- as long as they're not trying to hit you with upfront fees. It's either a yes or no. It just seems as if it's so restrictive that only the people who don't need the money will be approved.
We really didn't need to lower an interest rate. Just consolidate two into one and pay them both off quicker. Either way, all debt gone in three years. It seemed a no brainer. No, they wanted security up the wazzu.
So we'll spend little, erase debt and Macy's etc can go to hell. Seems that's Obama plan.
Posted by: free range 'sorta' conservative but not 'true' conservative at August 12, 2016 06:59 PM (ZnIt3)
809
His liberties are your liberties.
---
They really aren't.
A rather fundamental part of my liberty is the right to choose what battles or persons are worthy of my effort and what are not.
Your hypothetical illegal enabler is not.
---
They really aren't.
A rather fundamental part of my liberty is the right to choose what battles or persons are worthy of my effort and what are not.
Your hypothetical illegal enabler is not.
Posted by: Methos, AoSHQ commenter since 2006, now apperently nonvoting democrat at August 12, 2016 06:59 PM (3Liv/)
810
>>>how are you going to fill that hole?<<<
You find the tightest talent available and then you train them relentlessly.
You find the tightest talent available and then you train them relentlessly.
Posted by: Fritz at August 12, 2016 06:59 PM (WYh6/)
Posted by: chemjeff at August 12, 2016 06:59 PM (uAvJJ)
812
Posted by: Methos, AoSHQ commenter since 2006, now apperently nonvoting democrat at August 12, 2016 06:59 PM (3Liv/)
You have the right to be secure in your possessions. So does Paco.
How can you deny this liberty to Paco, while claim to keep it for yourself? You are both citizens.
You have the right to be secure in your possessions. So does Paco.
How can you deny this liberty to Paco, while claim to keep it for yourself? You are both citizens.
Posted by: chemjeff at August 12, 2016 07:01 PM (uAvJJ)
Posted by: Lady in Black - Death to the Man Bun at August 12, 2016 07:01 PM (+FSld)
814
Providing ID when requested to do so is not even on my fucking radar of Government Overreach.
Anyone who claims it to be so is merely posturing.
Anyone who claims it to be so is merely posturing.
Posted by: garrett at August 12, 2016 07:01 PM (c1srJ)
815
I should say, you have the right to be free of unreasonable searches.
Posted by: chemjeff at August 12, 2016 07:01 PM (uAvJJ)
816
You really do live in Fantasy land and I guess your overpaid at what ever you really do at the college. But I guess you never heard of the War on Drugs?
Posted by: Nevergiveup at August 12, 2016 06:18 PM
Yikes!
Time to review structuring laws and who them impact.
When I started my first business, I had zero dollar in my bank account, a POS car, and barely brought in enough from a second job to cover my rent and one meal a day. I started a security business that billed by the hour. My business partner advanced $20k for all the licensing and other costs to open the business.
So, job #1. I got the client, I wrote the contract, I worked all the hours. I paid myself zero dollars. After billing the client, we receive about $10k in income. 15% was held in reserve for taxes, the 100% of the remaining money was allocated to hire a sales guy so that I could work my two jobs and still get a full week of selling in each week to grow the company.
Now, under structuring laws, if I was paid in cash by the client and deposited $9,850 from each invoice payment, the Fed could seize my entire account without due process or any indication of criminal activity.
Fight the war on drugs. Fine. Structuring, however, removes due process and any requirement of evidence of criminal activity by making an abitrary deposit amount a crime in itself.
It has nothing to do with the amount anyone makes, weath, or anything else. The government should have evidence of a crime prior to seizing my property.
Posted by: Nevergiveup at August 12, 2016 06:18 PM
Yikes!
Time to review structuring laws and who them impact.
When I started my first business, I had zero dollar in my bank account, a POS car, and barely brought in enough from a second job to cover my rent and one meal a day. I started a security business that billed by the hour. My business partner advanced $20k for all the licensing and other costs to open the business.
So, job #1. I got the client, I wrote the contract, I worked all the hours. I paid myself zero dollars. After billing the client, we receive about $10k in income. 15% was held in reserve for taxes, the 100% of the remaining money was allocated to hire a sales guy so that I could work my two jobs and still get a full week of selling in each week to grow the company.
Now, under structuring laws, if I was paid in cash by the client and deposited $9,850 from each invoice payment, the Fed could seize my entire account without due process or any indication of criminal activity.
Fight the war on drugs. Fine. Structuring, however, removes due process and any requirement of evidence of criminal activity by making an abitrary deposit amount a crime in itself.
It has nothing to do with the amount anyone makes, weath, or anything else. The government should have evidence of a crime prior to seizing my property.
Posted by: Damiano at August 12, 2016 07:02 PM (71OEY)
817
Providing ID when requested to do so is not even on my fucking radar of Government Overreach.
Anyone who claims it to be so is merely posturing.
--------------
History would indicate that it should be.
Anyone who claims it to be so is merely posturing.
--------------
History would indicate that it should be.
Posted by: SH at August 12, 2016 07:02 PM (gmeXX)
818
Sorry, Morons.
You all lose.
The Correct Answer was :
You can't fill it. You can only hope to contain it.
You all lose.
The Correct Answer was :
You can't fill it. You can only hope to contain it.
Posted by: garrett at August 12, 2016 07:02 PM (c1srJ)
819
815 I should say, you have the right to be free of unreasonable searches.
Posted by: chemjeff at August 12, 2016 07:01 PM (uAvJJ)
If you're hanging out with a bunch of illegals, its not unreasonable.
Posted by: chemjeff at August 12, 2016 07:01 PM (uAvJJ)
If you're hanging out with a bunch of illegals, its not unreasonable.
Posted by: buzzion at August 12, 2016 07:03 PM (bMG0w)
820
814
Providing ID when requested to do so is not even on my fucking radar of Government Overreach.
Anyone who claims it to be so is merely posturing.
Posted by: garrett at August 12, 2016 07:01 PM (c1srJ)
See, that's the same type of thinking that got us all the other itty bitty confiscations of our liberty. 'Oh it's such a small thing. Who cares really?'
Providing ID when requested to do so is not even on my fucking radar of Government Overreach.
Anyone who claims it to be so is merely posturing.
Posted by: garrett at August 12, 2016 07:01 PM (c1srJ)
See, that's the same type of thinking that got us all the other itty bitty confiscations of our liberty. 'Oh it's such a small thing. Who cares really?'
Posted by: chemjeff at August 12, 2016 07:03 PM (uAvJJ)
Posted by: garrett at August 12, 2016 07:03 PM (c1srJ)
822
>>>It's been replaced by Pelosi's greasy lips. <<<
That's her bukkake face before the botox injections.
That's her bukkake face before the botox injections.
Posted by: Fritz at August 12, 2016 07:04 PM (WYh6/)
823
If there is already a law, why do we need a new one? And what if you don't have an internet connection? What qualifies as a business?
Will this be used for other purposes beyond immigration? I don't trust the government to not expand what is required.
And I think that is sort of CJ's point. Let's not tread on our liberties to solve a problem that can be solved in other ways.
Posted by: SH
The IRS knows everything about the business already, including employees names, birth dates, amount they were paid and when, their SS numbers, etc so I really don't see how this can be viewed as some sort of huge government intrusion for E-Verify.
It would make a HUGE difference as once business owners know they can get in trouble for skirting the system, they will comply and it can turn the tide. Especially among more established businesses
Will this be used for other purposes beyond immigration? I don't trust the government to not expand what is required.
And I think that is sort of CJ's point. Let's not tread on our liberties to solve a problem that can be solved in other ways.
Posted by: SH
The IRS knows everything about the business already, including employees names, birth dates, amount they were paid and when, their SS numbers, etc so I really don't see how this can be viewed as some sort of huge government intrusion for E-Verify.
It would make a HUGE difference as once business owners know they can get in trouble for skirting the system, they will comply and it can turn the tide. Especially among more established businesses
Posted by: Maritime at August 12, 2016 07:04 PM (u2zpL)
824
Ace, you've been en fuego with the long form posts and I approve.
Posted by: joncelli at August 12, 2016 07:04 PM (1FhAQ)
Posted by: Uma at August 12, 2016 07:04 PM (G6BhX)
826
>>History would indicate that it should be.
Not American history.
----------
Exactly so - let's keep it that way.
Not American history.
----------
Exactly so - let's keep it that way.
Posted by: SH at August 12, 2016 07:04 PM (gmeXX)
827
If you're hanging out with a bunch of illegals, its not unreasonable.
Posted by: buzzion at August 12, 2016 07:03 PM (bMG0w)
How does the LEO *know* they are illegals without asking them?
Suppose the LEO asks them all to show their documentation. They all refuse. What does the LEO do then?
Posted by: buzzion at August 12, 2016 07:03 PM (bMG0w)
How does the LEO *know* they are illegals without asking them?
Suppose the LEO asks them all to show their documentation. They all refuse. What does the LEO do then?
Posted by: chemjeff at August 12, 2016 07:05 PM (uAvJJ)
828
>> You find the tightest talent available and then you train them
>> relentlessly.
And you have the Swedish Bikini Cops doing the training.
>> relentlessly.
And you have the Swedish Bikini Cops doing the training.
Posted by: publius (not Breitbart publius) at August 12, 2016 07:05 PM (DW+jj)
829
How can you deny this liberty to Paco, while claim to keep it for yourself? You are both citizens.
---
I don't stand on the corner outside Home Depot.
---
I don't stand on the corner outside Home Depot.
Posted by: Methos, AoSHQ commenter since 2006, now apperently nonvoting democrat at August 12, 2016 07:05 PM (3Liv/)
830
Posted by: Damiano at August 12, 2016 07:02 PM (71OEY)
I agree, that is a bad law.
I agree, that is a bad law.
Posted by: CaliGirl at August 12, 2016 07:05 PM (fsFHj)
831
You can't fill it. You can only hope to contain it.
Posted by: garrett at August 12, 2016 07:02 PM (c1srJ)
Are we still talking about Hope Solo?
Posted by: garrett at August 12, 2016 07:02 PM (c1srJ)
Are we still talking about Hope Solo?
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at August 12, 2016 07:05 PM (Zu3d9)
832
Incidentally, loitering is not per se illegal in this country. See Chicago v. Morales. So standing in front of the Home Depot, unless the property management wanted them evicted, is not necessarily a crime. Nevertheless, if 1 of those 10-20 young Latino males is a citizen, he has the right to refuse to provide ID. So how does LEO approach that group of males to try to figure out who is an illegal without violating the rights of the 1 or 2 of them who might be citizens?
Posted by: chemjeff at August 12, 2016 06:46 PM (uAvJJ)
++++
Of course it's not illegal per se, that implies a federal law. Loitering laws are local. Chicago v. Morales overturned that city's loitering law for vagueness, but it did not rule that loitering laws can't be constitutional. Just that that one was unconstitutionally vague.
The Home Depots I've been to typically have the day laborers hovering between the public sidewalk and the private parking lot. If Home Depot complains, the men will shift over and make sure they are entirely on the sidewalk. Typically, large cities have drunk the progressive Kool-aid and will not allow the cops to do anything about the men hanging around on the sidewalk. Sometimes, they won't even do anything about them sleeping on the sidewalk.
Posted by: chemjeff at August 12, 2016 06:46 PM (uAvJJ)
++++
Of course it's not illegal per se, that implies a federal law. Loitering laws are local. Chicago v. Morales overturned that city's loitering law for vagueness, but it did not rule that loitering laws can't be constitutional. Just that that one was unconstitutionally vague.
The Home Depots I've been to typically have the day laborers hovering between the public sidewalk and the private parking lot. If Home Depot complains, the men will shift over and make sure they are entirely on the sidewalk. Typically, large cities have drunk the progressive Kool-aid and will not allow the cops to do anything about the men hanging around on the sidewalk. Sometimes, they won't even do anything about them sleeping on the sidewalk.
Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at August 12, 2016 07:05 PM (R+30W)
833
>>History would indicate that it should be.
Not American history.
----------
Actually I was wrong - Koramatsu suggest that even in America we have gone down this path.
Not American history.
----------
Actually I was wrong - Koramatsu suggest that even in America we have gone down this path.
Posted by: SH at August 12, 2016 07:05 PM (gmeXX)
Posted by: Lena Dunham at August 12, 2016 07:05 PM (9mTYi)
835
>> that's the same type of thinking that got us all the other itty bitty confiscations of our liberty. 'Oh it's such a small thing. Who cares really?'
No. We can circle back to that when we finish solving some real world fucking problems.
The difference between academia and reality, jeff.
You can argue about how many angels can dance on a fucking pin or you can prioritize your effort and fix the fucking problems.
No. We can circle back to that when we finish solving some real world fucking problems.
The difference between academia and reality, jeff.
You can argue about how many angels can dance on a fucking pin or you can prioritize your effort and fix the fucking problems.
Posted by: garrett at August 12, 2016 07:05 PM (c1srJ)
836
Furthermore, there is also this thing called "freedom of association", citizens have the right to hang out with illegals if they so choose. Don't they?
Posted by: chemjeff at August 12, 2016 07:06 PM (uAvJJ)
837
The part I forgot: assets are good but current income not remotely enough to qualify for the loan. Posted by: JEM
Just noticed after reply. Nevermind. Let sleeping dogs lie.
All these loan departments are sending stuff to a web based startup you don't want to deal with. An official sounding website, full of furners. Full of code to sniff out problems.
Just noticed after reply. Nevermind. Let sleeping dogs lie.
All these loan departments are sending stuff to a web based startup you don't want to deal with. An official sounding website, full of furners. Full of code to sniff out problems.
Posted by: free range 'sorta' conservative but not 'true' conservative at August 12, 2016 07:06 PM (ZnIt3)
Posted by: Dick Morris at August 12, 2016 07:06 PM (DW+jj)
839
It would make a HUGE difference as once business owners know they can get in trouble for skirting the system, they will comply and it can turn the tide. Especially among more established businesses
---------
So business that now break the law will suddenly comply because we have added a step?
---------
So business that now break the law will suddenly comply because we have added a step?
Posted by: SH at August 12, 2016 07:06 PM (gmeXX)
840
No. We can circle back to that when we finish solving some real world fucking problems.
There IS no "circling back". The ratchet is one-way. Or at least appears to be.
There IS no "circling back". The ratchet is one-way. Or at least appears to be.
Posted by: chemjeff at August 12, 2016 07:06 PM (uAvJJ)
841
Excessively amount of comments start taking a longer time to load, just saying.
Posted by: Skip at August 12, 2016 07:07 PM (bksJQ)
842
>>I don't stand on the corner outside Home Depot.
I don't stand on misguided principles when asked to show a photo ID.
I have better shit to do than annoy a poor schmuck who is just trying to do his job.
I don't stand on misguided principles when asked to show a photo ID.
I have better shit to do than annoy a poor schmuck who is just trying to do his job.
Posted by: garrett at August 12, 2016 07:08 PM (c1srJ)
Posted by: Hairyback Guy at August 12, 2016 07:08 PM (ej1L0)
844
Baloney
Posted by: ThunderB at August 12, 2016 07:08 PM (p42GR)
845
836 Furthermore, there is also this thing called "freedom of association", citizens have the right to hang out with illegals if they so choose. Don't they?
Posted by: chemjeff at August 12, 2016 07:06 PM (uAvJJ)
And have to suffer the consequences when those illegals get caught and they are with them. Like OMG showing the cops their driver's license when asked. OH the humanity! Oh how horrible! Police brutality!
836 Furthermore, there is also this thing called "freedom of association", citizens have the right to hang out with illegals if they so choose. Don't they?
Posted by: chemjeff at August 12, 2016 07:06 PM (uAvJJ)
And have to suffer the consequences when those illegals get caught and they are with them. Like OMG showing the cops their driver's license when asked. OH the humanity! Oh how horrible! Police brutality!
Posted by: buzzion at August 12, 2016 07:08 PM (bMG0w)
846
Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at August 12, 2016 07:05 PM (R+30W)
I have never seen day laborer outside Home Depot. I see a homeless guy with a camping chair and a sign begging though.
I have never seen day laborer outside Home Depot. I see a homeless guy with a camping chair and a sign begging though.
Posted by: CaliGirl at August 12, 2016 07:08 PM (fsFHj)
847
The IRS knows everything about the business already, including employees names, birth dates, amount they were paid and when, their SS numbers, etc so I really don't see how this can be viewed as some sort of huge government intrusion for E-Verify.
------------
Is there anything that you would consider to be government intrusion - I'm sure there is. Perhaps someone else, doesn't consider that to be intrusion. So you see what happens. We just get intrusion after intrusion because no matter what there is a group that is in favor of the intrusion because that group always thinks it is a minor and justifiable intrusion.
------------
Is there anything that you would consider to be government intrusion - I'm sure there is. Perhaps someone else, doesn't consider that to be intrusion. So you see what happens. We just get intrusion after intrusion because no matter what there is a group that is in favor of the intrusion because that group always thinks it is a minor and justifiable intrusion.
Posted by: SH at August 12, 2016 07:08 PM (gmeXX)
848
>>There IS no "circling back".
Says who?
An associate professor of chemistry?
You are arguing over ideals. And retarded ones at that.
Says who?
An associate professor of chemistry?
You are arguing over ideals. And retarded ones at that.
Posted by: garrett at August 12, 2016 07:10 PM (c1srJ)
849
And have to suffer the consequences when those
illegals get caught and they are with them. Like OMG showing the cops
their driver's license when asked. OH the humanity! Oh how horrible!
Police brutality!
Posted by: buzzion at August 12, 2016 07:08 PM (bMG0w)
No one said it was "police brutality". But you are illustrating my point. It seems as though you are willing to give up at least some of your Fourth Amendment rights if it means cracking down on illegals.
illegals get caught and they are with them. Like OMG showing the cops
their driver's license when asked. OH the humanity! Oh how horrible!
Police brutality!
Posted by: buzzion at August 12, 2016 07:08 PM (bMG0w)
No one said it was "police brutality". But you are illustrating my point. It seems as though you are willing to give up at least some of your Fourth Amendment rights if it means cracking down on illegals.
Posted by: chemjeff at August 12, 2016 07:10 PM (uAvJJ)
850
So when the elites/progs talk about being more like Europe they mean 12th century Europe. We just don't call the barons, dukes and what have you but they do think of us as serfs.
So when the elites/progs talk about being more like Europe they mean 12th century Europe. We just don't call the barons, dukes and what have you but they do think of us as serfs.
Posted by: YIKES! at August 12, 2016 07:10 PM (yfObW)
851
Excessively amount of comments start taking a longer time to load, just saying.
Posted by: Skip at August 12, 2016 07:07 PM
You're just Hopeing for another prima threada for your keyboard.
Posted by: Skip at August 12, 2016 07:07 PM
You're just Hopeing for another prima threada for your keyboard.
Posted by: Duncanthrax at August 12, 2016 07:11 PM (G6BhX)
852
And have to suffer the consequences when those illegals get caught and they are with them. Like OMG showing the cops their driver's license when asked. OH the humanity! Oh how horrible! Police brutality!
------------
It sure does sound minor. But I think we should be wary of a government that has carte blanche to check IDs at any time - what if you don't have yours on ?
I personally would prefer to error on the side of liberty. And more so than most people probably would be willing.
------------
It sure does sound minor. But I think we should be wary of a government that has carte blanche to check IDs at any time - what if you don't have yours on ?
I personally would prefer to error on the side of liberty. And more so than most people probably would be willing.
Posted by: SH at August 12, 2016 07:11 PM (gmeXX)
853
No one said it was "police brutality". But you are illustrating my point. It seems as though you are willing to give up at least some of your Fourth Amendment rights if it means cracking down on illegals.
Posted by: chemjeff at August 12, 2016 07:10 PM (uAvJJ)
Bull shit.
Posted by: chemjeff at August 12, 2016 07:10 PM (uAvJJ)
Bull shit.
Posted by: buzzion at August 12, 2016 07:11 PM (bMG0w)
854
They insist on showing A-Rods last game here in Cali. No one here cares, but it starts raining like crazy. That may be ironic.
Posted by: Tinfoilbaby at August 12, 2016 07:11 PM (6Ll1u)
855
>>So how does LEO approach that group of males to try to figure out who is an illegal without violating the rights of the 1 or 2 of them who might be citizens?
In 1990 the Supreme Court ruled that being stopped for a random DUI checkpoint was not an unreasonable infringement on the 4th Amendment. They acknowledged that stopping the car was a form of "seizure" but that it was such a minor thing it didn't rise to the level of infringement on personal rights.
And you think a cop asking you for ID would be un-Constitutional? Good luck with that.
In 1990 the Supreme Court ruled that being stopped for a random DUI checkpoint was not an unreasonable infringement on the 4th Amendment. They acknowledged that stopping the car was a form of "seizure" but that it was such a minor thing it didn't rise to the level of infringement on personal rights.
And you think a cop asking you for ID would be un-Constitutional? Good luck with that.
Posted by: JackStraw at August 12, 2016 07:11 PM (/tuJf)
856
You are arguing over ideals. And retarded ones at that.
Posted by: garrett at August 12, 2016 07:10 PM (c1srJ)
I am arguing over fundamental concepts of liberty. If you aren't interested, then that's fine. But do not complain to me when you are put on some sort of administrative "watch list" because you did something innocent which attracted the attention of some bureaucrat, and then you have to spend time and money trying to get your name removed from that list.
Posted by: garrett at August 12, 2016 07:10 PM (c1srJ)
I am arguing over fundamental concepts of liberty. If you aren't interested, then that's fine. But do not complain to me when you are put on some sort of administrative "watch list" because you did something innocent which attracted the attention of some bureaucrat, and then you have to spend time and money trying to get your name removed from that list.
Posted by: chemjeff at August 12, 2016 07:11 PM (uAvJJ)
857
Hope Solo should seriously consider becoming a spokesperson for potted meat.
Posted by: Fritz at August 12, 2016 07:12 PM (WYh6/)
858
Cops aren't going to be roaming the streets looking for illegals
Use common sense. Illegals will be discovered when they are committing other crimes
Like DWI. Or theft. Or fraud. Or rape. Or assault. Or crossing the border
Get out of your science fiction novels
Use common sense. Illegals will be discovered when they are committing other crimes
Like DWI. Or theft. Or fraud. Or rape. Or assault. Or crossing the border
Get out of your science fiction novels
Posted by: ThunderB at August 12, 2016 07:13 PM (NtV9n)
859
In 1990 the Supreme Court ruled that being stopped for a random DUI checkpoint was not an unreasonable infringement on the 4th Amendment. They acknowledged that stopping the car was a form of "seizure" but that it was such a minor thing it didn't rise to the level of infringement on personal rights.
And you think a cop asking you for ID would be un-Constitutional? Good luck with that.
Posted by: JackStraw at August 12, 2016 07:11 PM (/tuJf)
And guess what. I think the Court got that wrong. You know like they got it wrong in Koramatsu and Obamacare. The Court isn't always right.
But yes, I do think asking for an ID for no justifiable reason is unreasonable.
And you think a cop asking you for ID would be un-Constitutional? Good luck with that.
Posted by: JackStraw at August 12, 2016 07:11 PM (/tuJf)
And guess what. I think the Court got that wrong. You know like they got it wrong in Koramatsu and Obamacare. The Court isn't always right.
But yes, I do think asking for an ID for no justifiable reason is unreasonable.
Posted by: SH at August 12, 2016 07:13 PM (gmeXX)
Posted by: Hillary!s feet at August 12, 2016 07:13 PM (HgMAr)
861
In 1990 the Supreme Court ruled that being stopped
for a random DUI checkpoint was not an unreasonable infringement on the
4th Amendment. They acknowledged that stopping the car was a form of
"seizure" but that it was such a minor thing it didn't rise to the level
of infringement on personal rights.
And you think a cop asking you for ID would be un-Constitutional? Good luck with that.
Posted by: JackStraw at August 12, 2016 07:11 PM (/tuJf)
It depends on the state.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_and_identify_statutes
for a random DUI checkpoint was not an unreasonable infringement on the
4th Amendment. They acknowledged that stopping the car was a form of
"seizure" but that it was such a minor thing it didn't rise to the level
of infringement on personal rights.
And you think a cop asking you for ID would be un-Constitutional? Good luck with that.
Posted by: JackStraw at August 12, 2016 07:11 PM (/tuJf)
It depends on the state.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_and_identify_statutes
Posted by: chemjeff at August 12, 2016 07:13 PM (uAvJJ)
862
No if i comment it goes back to the top and takes a while ( I am on the opposite side of house from my router)to get back to the bottom.
Posted by: Skip at August 12, 2016 07:13 PM (bksJQ)
863
If there is already a law, why do we need a new one? And what if you don't have an internet connection? What qualifies as a business?
Will this be used for other purposes beyond immigration? I don't trust the government to not expand what is required.
And I think that is sort of CJ's point. Let's not tread on our liberties to solve a problem that can be solved in other ways.
Posted by: SH at August 12, 2016 06:57 PM (gmeXX)
++++
E-verify is currently a voluntary program, except for companies doing business with the federal government. If you want to have a contract with the federal government, usage of e-verify is mandatory.
What qualifies as a business is someone who hires employees. Said businesses already have to submit payroll and withholding taxes to the government, so looking up a ss# is not a stretch.
What liberties are you referring to? If you are talking about checking documents, that ship sailed long ago. E-verify is merely a program to verify the legitimacy of the documents the business is already required to check.
If there is already a law, why do we need a new one? And what if you don't have an internet connection? What qualifies as a business?
Will this be used for other purposes beyond immigration? I don't trust the government to not expand what is required.
And I think that is sort of CJ's point. Let's not tread on our liberties to solve a problem that can be solved in other ways.
Posted by: SH at August 12, 2016 06:57 PM (gmeXX)
++++
E-verify is currently a voluntary program, except for companies doing business with the federal government. If you want to have a contract with the federal government, usage of e-verify is mandatory.
What qualifies as a business is someone who hires employees. Said businesses already have to submit payroll and withholding taxes to the government, so looking up a ss# is not a stretch.
What liberties are you referring to? If you are talking about checking documents, that ship sailed long ago. E-verify is merely a program to verify the legitimacy of the documents the business is already required to check.
Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at August 12, 2016 07:13 PM (R+30W)
864
Whenever I hear her name, all I can think of is lips, tits, and assholes.
Posted by: Just the Punchline at August 12, 2016 07:14 PM (WYh6/)
Posted by: garrett at August 12, 2016 07:14 PM (c1srJ)
866
It sure does sound minor. But I think we should be wary of a government that has carte blanche to check IDs at any time - what if you don't have yours on ?
I personally would prefer to error on the side of liberty. And more so than most people probably would be willing.
Posted by: SH at August 12, 2016 07:11 PM (gmeXX)
You know you and chemjeff get to regularly engage in stupid hypotheticals, so let me engage in mine. That there is some hypothetical lawful reason the police have to check ID's and it winds up that there are a bunch of illegals and one legal. You know what happens if he didn't do anything wrong? He gets let go. You know what happens if he can't provide any proof like all his illegal criminal buddies? He might have to sit around at the police station for an hour while someone gets him his ID.
I personally would prefer to error on the side of liberty. And more so than most people probably would be willing.
Posted by: SH at August 12, 2016 07:11 PM (gmeXX)
You know you and chemjeff get to regularly engage in stupid hypotheticals, so let me engage in mine. That there is some hypothetical lawful reason the police have to check ID's and it winds up that there are a bunch of illegals and one legal. You know what happens if he didn't do anything wrong? He gets let go. You know what happens if he can't provide any proof like all his illegal criminal buddies? He might have to sit around at the police station for an hour while someone gets him his ID.
Posted by: buzzion at August 12, 2016 07:14 PM (bMG0w)
867
Says who? An associate professor of chemistry?
No, no, no. Not an 'associate'. He never uses that modifier, however deserved. Some mid twenty year old, who likes to argue, is a 'professor'. Period.
Because the internet demands truth, justice, and the American way.
No, no, no. Not an 'associate'. He never uses that modifier, however deserved. Some mid twenty year old, who likes to argue, is a 'professor'. Period.
Because the internet demands truth, justice, and the American way.
Posted by: free range 'sorta' conservative but not 'true' conservative at August 12, 2016 07:15 PM (ZnIt3)
868
>> Hope Solo should seriously consider becoming a spokesperson for
>> potted meat.
Some guy on Twitter was inspired by Hope's selfies and did some damn fine art with an Arby's Roast Beef sandwich.
>> potted meat.
Some guy on Twitter was inspired by Hope's selfies and did some damn fine art with an Arby's Roast Beef sandwich.
Posted by: publius (not Breitbart publius) at August 12, 2016 07:15 PM (DW+jj)
869
134 I am not surprised that Whittaker Chambers, a communist spy for Russia, would say something like that about Atlas Shrugged. It would be impossible for him to agree with anything in her book. He is the very epitome of the looters that Rand was raging against."
Jesus, Vic, have you ever read his "Witness" which is rightly considered one of the great memoirs of the 20th century.
He was a spy who realized he was working for evil, testified against Alger Hiss (which won him the hatred of the Left for the rest of his life) and embraced Christianity. It was as a Christian that he made his criticism of Rand. His life was a great work of redemption.
Summing Chambers up as nothing but a Communist spy is like calling David Horowitz nothing but a Marxist hippie.
Jesus, Vic, have you ever read his "Witness" which is rightly considered one of the great memoirs of the 20th century.
He was a spy who realized he was working for evil, testified against Alger Hiss (which won him the hatred of the Left for the rest of his life) and embraced Christianity. It was as a Christian that he made his criticism of Rand. His life was a great work of redemption.
Summing Chambers up as nothing but a Communist spy is like calling David Horowitz nothing but a Marxist hippie.
Posted by: Donna&&&&&V (whitely waiting for the ballgame) at August 12, 2016 07:15 PM (P8951)
870
Cops aren't going to be roaming the streets looking for illegals
Use common sense. Illegals will be discovered when they are committing other crimes
Like DWI. Or theft. Or fraud. Or rape. Or assault. Or crossing the border
Get out of your science fiction novels
------------
1. Maybe. Why can't we debate the liberty v. security argument. This country has been arguing over it from the get go.
2. If that is the case, then we don't need a show your ID law.
3. I think you are illustrating CJ's point. There are plenty of laws / methods on the books that can be used to cut down on illegals without resorting to new ones that may infringe on our rights.
Use common sense. Illegals will be discovered when they are committing other crimes
Like DWI. Or theft. Or fraud. Or rape. Or assault. Or crossing the border
Get out of your science fiction novels
------------
1. Maybe. Why can't we debate the liberty v. security argument. This country has been arguing over it from the get go.
2. If that is the case, then we don't need a show your ID law.
3. I think you are illustrating CJ's point. There are plenty of laws / methods on the books that can be used to cut down on illegals without resorting to new ones that may infringe on our rights.
Posted by: SH at August 12, 2016 07:15 PM (gmeXX)
871
So business that now break the law will suddenly comply because we have added a step?
Posted by: SH
Yes, because its harder for them to claim ignorance and they now share responsibility for verification.
Thats the whole point.
Also, business owners know who's legal and who's not, but they don't care until it becomes their problem.
All of these excuses for why we can't clamp down on illegal immigration sound awfully weak, like not wanting employers to fill out a simple form or showing a drivers license.
Stuff we already do every day.
Posted by: SH
Yes, because its harder for them to claim ignorance and they now share responsibility for verification.
Thats the whole point.
Also, business owners know who's legal and who's not, but they don't care until it becomes their problem.
All of these excuses for why we can't clamp down on illegal immigration sound awfully weak, like not wanting employers to fill out a simple form or showing a drivers license.
Stuff we already do every day.
Posted by: Maritime at August 12, 2016 07:15 PM (u2zpL)
872
'It's like raaaaa-e-ain
on your last MLB Game!'
on your last MLB Game!'
Posted by: Alanis Morissette at August 12, 2016 07:16 PM (c1srJ)
873
Bull shit.
Posted by: buzzion at August 12, 2016 07:11 PM (bMG0w)
Really? Right now, you have the right to refuse to provide ID if you aren't suspected of doing anything wrong. The group of 10 Latino guys hanging out at Home Depot aren't doing anything wrong per se. They might be citizens, they might be illegals, who knows? You don't seem to mind that the cops should compel these men to show proof of citizenship on demand. That is giving up some of your Fourth Amendment rights.
Posted by: buzzion at August 12, 2016 07:11 PM (bMG0w)
Really? Right now, you have the right to refuse to provide ID if you aren't suspected of doing anything wrong. The group of 10 Latino guys hanging out at Home Depot aren't doing anything wrong per se. They might be citizens, they might be illegals, who knows? You don't seem to mind that the cops should compel these men to show proof of citizenship on demand. That is giving up some of your Fourth Amendment rights.
Posted by: chemjeff at August 12, 2016 07:16 PM (uAvJJ)
874
What qualifies as a business is someone who hires employees. Said businesses already have to submit payroll and withholding taxes to the government, so looking up a ss# is not a stretch.
What liberties are you referring to? If you are talking about checking documents, that ship sailed long ago. E-verify is merely a program to verify the legitimacy of the documents the business is already required to check.
--------------
Do you think having companies withhold taxes is good or bad? I'm sure at the time, it was thought a minor inconvenience.
Have you ever looked up who qualifies as an employee or what is defined as a business? I submit it is never as clear cut as you think, and you may think one thing, but the government thinks another.
What liberties are you referring to? If you are talking about checking documents, that ship sailed long ago. E-verify is merely a program to verify the legitimacy of the documents the business is already required to check.
--------------
Do you think having companies withhold taxes is good or bad? I'm sure at the time, it was thought a minor inconvenience.
Have you ever looked up who qualifies as an employee or what is defined as a business? I submit it is never as clear cut as you think, and you may think one thing, but the government thinks another.
Posted by: SH at August 12, 2016 07:17 PM (gmeXX)
875
Basic premise - What part of ILLEGAL is not understood?
Posted by: Ben Had at August 12, 2016 07:17 PM (X42pZ)
876
>>And guess what. I think the Court got that wrong. You know like they got it wrong in Koramatsu and Obamacare. The Court isn't always right.
I don't think they much give a shit whether you think they are right or wrong. They ruled that the public good of getting drunks off the road outweighed any minor infringement it caused to people they stopped. That is the law.
It is also a huge red herring to keep insisting that cops are going to start lining everyone up and demanding papers like some Soviet drone. They are still going to have to demonstrate some reasonable cause. They aren't going to start surrounding Applebee's and demanding IDs from white, middle aged college professors.
I don't think they much give a shit whether you think they are right or wrong. They ruled that the public good of getting drunks off the road outweighed any minor infringement it caused to people they stopped. That is the law.
It is also a huge red herring to keep insisting that cops are going to start lining everyone up and demanding papers like some Soviet drone. They are still going to have to demonstrate some reasonable cause. They aren't going to start surrounding Applebee's and demanding IDs from white, middle aged college professors.
Posted by: JackStraw at August 12, 2016 07:17 PM (/tuJf)
877
548 Do you shoot the pet?
Posted by: DFCtomm at August 12, 2016 06:05 PM (4PEWr)
Yes, first thing, every time. That's how the Red Dragon rolls.
Posted by: DFCtomm at August 12, 2016 06:05 PM (4PEWr)
Yes, first thing, every time. That's how the Red Dragon rolls.
Posted by: Francis Dolarhyde at August 12, 2016 07:17 PM (iMxBJ)
878
You know you and chemjeff get to regularly engage in stupid hypotheticals, so let me engage in mine. That there is some hypothetical lawful reason the police have to check ID's and it winds up that there are a bunch of illegals and one legal. You know what happens if he didn't do anything wrong? He gets let go. You know what happens if he can't provide any proof like all his illegal criminal buddies? He might have to sit around at the police station for an hour while someone gets him his ID.
Posted by: buzzion
basically exactly what happens if a suspected underage drinker is caught with a bunch of other people that also could be underage
everyone's id gets checked
happens all the time at college campuses around the country
oh the humanity!!! it's a nazi police state!!
Posted by: buzzion
basically exactly what happens if a suspected underage drinker is caught with a bunch of other people that also could be underage
everyone's id gets checked
happens all the time at college campuses around the country
oh the humanity!!! it's a nazi police state!!
Posted by: Maritime at August 12, 2016 07:18 PM (u2zpL)
879
Until a minute ago I couldn't have picked Hope Solo out of a police lineup. Had to look her twitter feed up.
Posted by: Skip at August 12, 2016 07:18 PM (bksJQ)
880
Really? Right now, you have the right to refuse to provide ID if you aren't suspected of doing anything wrong. The group of 10 Latino guys hanging out at Home Depot aren't doing anything wrong per se. They might be citizens, they might be illegals, who knows? You don't seem to mind that the cops should compel these men to show proof of citizenship on demand. That is giving up some of your Fourth Amendment rights.
Posted by: chemjeff at August 12, 2016 07:16 PM (uAvJJ)
Who said it has to be at the Home Depot? Oh right. You. Because that's how you want to argue it, so you can claim that is the only potential situation that it can be.
Posted by: chemjeff at August 12, 2016 07:16 PM (uAvJJ)
Who said it has to be at the Home Depot? Oh right. You. Because that's how you want to argue it, so you can claim that is the only potential situation that it can be.
Posted by: buzzion at August 12, 2016 07:18 PM (bMG0w)
881
What happened to the Real ID Act? Another bill passed but never funded or executed.
Posted by: Tinfoilbaby at August 12, 2016 07:18 PM (6Ll1u)
882
Summing Chambers up as nothing but a Communist spy is like calling David Horowitz nothing but a Marxist hippie.
It might however be fair to label Chambers a "disillusioned follower of FDR". He abandoned Stalin and Stalin's works, but could never quite join the ideological Right.
Like Horowitz himself these days, going after Diana West.
It might however be fair to label Chambers a "disillusioned follower of FDR". He abandoned Stalin and Stalin's works, but could never quite join the ideological Right.
Like Horowitz himself these days, going after Diana West.
Posted by: boulder terlit hobo at August 12, 2016 07:18 PM (6FqZa)
883
I'm not proving his point. Chem Jeff has his head stuck in some dystopian science fiction novel. He doesn't give a shit about liberty. He thinks it's mean to deport. He said that a year ago. He is just refining his argument to his audience. He doesn't mean a word of it. He does not want border enforcement or deportations. Period
Posted by: ThunderB at August 12, 2016 07:18 PM (NtV9n)
884
Pimento loaf
Posted by: wth at August 12, 2016 07:19 PM (HgMAr)
885
>>Right now, you have the right to refuse to provide ID if you aren't suspected of doing anything wrong. The group of 10 Latino guys hanging out at Home Depot aren't doing anything wrong per se.
Except in the Municipalities where they are.
Except in the Municipalities where they are.
Posted by: garrett at August 12, 2016 07:19 PM (c1srJ)
886
And bonus: We get to be blown to bits in our free-time by some of the new imports. Yay, us. Wtf??
And Ace, you're on fire, lately. Kudos to you! Mazel Tov and all that jazz.
And Ace, you're on fire, lately. Kudos to you! Mazel Tov and all that jazz.
Posted by: Twostellas at August 12, 2016 07:19 PM (eLvFT)
887
It is also a huge red herring to keep insisting that cops are going
to start lining everyone up and demanding papers like some Soviet drone.
No one is arguing this position.
It is also a huge red herring to keep insisting that cops are going
to start lining everyone up and demanding papers like some Soviet drone.
No one is arguing this position.
Posted by: chemjeff at August 12, 2016 07:19 PM (uAvJJ)
888
883 I'm not proving his point. Chem Jeff has his head stuck in some dystopian science fiction novel. He doesn't give a shit about liberty. He thinks it's mean to deport. He said that a year ago. He is just refining his argument to his audience. He doesn't mean a word of it. He does not want border enforcement or deportations. Period
Posted by: ThunderB at August 12, 2016 07:18 PM (NtV9n)
Yep. He is dishonest.
Posted by: ThunderB at August 12, 2016 07:18 PM (NtV9n)
Yep. He is dishonest.
Posted by: buzzion at August 12, 2016 07:19 PM (bMG0w)
889
You know what happens if he didn't do anything wrong? He gets let go.
You know what happens if he can't provide any proof like all his
illegal criminal buddies? He might have to sit around at the police
station for an hour while someone gets him his ID.
That's what it used to be. And while you're at the station if you can't find a way to be respectful you may end up with a few lumps for your efforts.
You know what happens if he can't provide any proof like all his
illegal criminal buddies? He might have to sit around at the police
station for an hour while someone gets him his ID.
That's what it used to be. And while you're at the station if you can't find a way to be respectful you may end up with a few lumps for your efforts.
Posted by: dartist at August 12, 2016 07:19 PM (3zi7q)
890
I could live with shutting down the inflow of illegals, denying them access to all public services and employment, then deporting them whenever they commit a crime ... which they will do sooner or later.
Yeah ... I can live with that.
Yeah ... I can live with that.
Posted by: ScoggDog at August 12, 2016 07:20 PM (jyInK)
891
869, Brava
Posted by: Patrick Henry at August 12, 2016 07:20 PM (u+0lh)
892
You know what happens if he didn't do anything wrong? He gets let go. You know what happens if he can't provide any proof like all his illegal criminal buddies? He might have to sit around at the police station for an hour while someone gets him his ID.
--------------
Jeez, these aren't stupid hypotheticals, these are real world problems worthy of debate. Don't take it personally. You don't have to agree with me, and I don't have to agree with you, and you may be right, and I may be wrong. But there is nothing wrong with arguing liberty v. security and when the line can be crossed and when it shouldn't.
We sure seem to hate forfeiture laws because they are abused and seem to only catch the innnocent. So why we be so trusting in other areas?
--------------
Jeez, these aren't stupid hypotheticals, these are real world problems worthy of debate. Don't take it personally. You don't have to agree with me, and I don't have to agree with you, and you may be right, and I may be wrong. But there is nothing wrong with arguing liberty v. security and when the line can be crossed and when it shouldn't.
We sure seem to hate forfeiture laws because they are abused and seem to only catch the innnocent. So why we be so trusting in other areas?
Posted by: SH at August 12, 2016 07:20 PM (gmeXX)
893
Hope Solo should seriously consider becoming a spokesperson for potted meat.
Posted by: Fritz at August 12, 2016 07:12 PM (WYh6/)
I'll admit to ignorance here? Whuts up wit dis?
Posted by: Fritz at August 12, 2016 07:12 PM (WYh6/)
I'll admit to ignorance here? Whuts up wit dis?
Posted by: Tim in Illinois. at August 12, 2016 07:20 PM (WVsWD)
894
I'm sorry to say the first part I saw of Hope Solo was her starfish, because moron. That's going to be a rough day for her if she DOES get arrested for something, and the potential witnesses will only be able to ID her from those pics
Posted by: boulder terlit hobo at August 12, 2016 07:20 PM (6FqZa)
Posted by: Mr Aspirin Factory at August 12, 2016 07:20 PM (89T5c)
896
846 Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at August 12, 2016 07:05 PM (R+30W)
I have never seen day laborer outside Home Depot. I see a homeless guy with a camping chair and a sign begging though.
Posted by: CaliGirl at August 12, 2016 07:08 PM (fsFHj)
++++
The guys that hire the day laborers tend to get an early start. So, most of the guys really looking for work will dissipate if they don't get their work for the day at the beginning of the day. It also maybe that an accommodation has been made, where if the day laborers agree to congregate in a out of the way spot on the side or around back, everyone leaves them alone. Or maybe they leave your Home Depot alone.
I have never seen day laborer outside Home Depot. I see a homeless guy with a camping chair and a sign begging though.
Posted by: CaliGirl at August 12, 2016 07:08 PM (fsFHj)
++++
The guys that hire the day laborers tend to get an early start. So, most of the guys really looking for work will dissipate if they don't get their work for the day at the beginning of the day. It also maybe that an accommodation has been made, where if the day laborers agree to congregate in a out of the way spot on the side or around back, everyone leaves them alone. Or maybe they leave your Home Depot alone.
Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at August 12, 2016 07:20 PM (R+30W)
897
>>It depends on the state.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_and_identify_statutes
God you are becoming tedious. Yes, they did say that some states that have laws against it are immune. But the larger point is that they found that it did not infringe on the 4th Amendment, the thing you keep insisting would happen if a cop asked you to show an ID.
You're just arguing for the sake of arguing at this point.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_and_identify_statutes
God you are becoming tedious. Yes, they did say that some states that have laws against it are immune. But the larger point is that they found that it did not infringe on the 4th Amendment, the thing you keep insisting would happen if a cop asked you to show an ID.
You're just arguing for the sake of arguing at this point.
Posted by: JackStraw at August 12, 2016 07:21 PM (/tuJf)
898
Who said it has to be at the Home Depot? Oh right.
You. Because that's how you want to argue it, so you can claim that is
the only potential situation that it can be.
Posted by: buzzion at August 12, 2016 07:18 PM (bMG0w)
Actually, that was the hypothetical situation put forth by Anon.Y.Mouse above, at comment #527. I was just continuing with his hypothetical.
You. Because that's how you want to argue it, so you can claim that is
the only potential situation that it can be.
Posted by: buzzion at August 12, 2016 07:18 PM (bMG0w)
Actually, that was the hypothetical situation put forth by Anon.Y.Mouse above, at comment #527. I was just continuing with his hypothetical.
Posted by: chemjeff at August 12, 2016 07:21 PM (uAvJJ)
899
In principle, generally, I have no problem with E Verify. The issue is that the general principle is oversimplified and the employment issues are grossly misunderstood by a LOT of people.
Issue one: since when has the government built a website that functions properly, much less any other system. Good example: Obama's SSN was issued in CT or someplace nowhere near Hawaii. If I flush that through E Verify, and the system works right, he shouldn't be employable. Well, there are a lot of reasons and a lot of mistakes that can be made that lead to that result but, in fact, Obama is probably eligible for employment and a US citizen. Who is responsible to fix that? The employer? The employee? Which of several agencies?
Issue 2: if I hire the kid next door to mow my lawn every week, he uses my lawn mower, and we have an agreed schedule and standard of work, technically, I am required by law to do an I9, W2, withhold and pay taxes on his behalf, and... I have a different business that is completely unrelated that employs 50 people... I have to offer him Obamacare and, depending on the state/ city, paid time off, workers comp, pay state and fed UI...
Ok, we agree if the kids is here illegally, I should not morally or legally pay him to mow my lawn. How and why is he here illegally? Did I bring him? Nope. Did I vote for open borders? Nope. Did I catch him and his parents coming across the border and not deport him? Nope. ...
So, why should I take on the enormous burden of doing what the government refuses to do? Why am I responsible for laws the government fails to enforce? I just want someone to mow my lawn so I have one less thing on the honey do list and the place doesn't look like a jungle while I work 80 hours a week.
Issue one: since when has the government built a website that functions properly, much less any other system. Good example: Obama's SSN was issued in CT or someplace nowhere near Hawaii. If I flush that through E Verify, and the system works right, he shouldn't be employable. Well, there are a lot of reasons and a lot of mistakes that can be made that lead to that result but, in fact, Obama is probably eligible for employment and a US citizen. Who is responsible to fix that? The employer? The employee? Which of several agencies?
Issue 2: if I hire the kid next door to mow my lawn every week, he uses my lawn mower, and we have an agreed schedule and standard of work, technically, I am required by law to do an I9, W2, withhold and pay taxes on his behalf, and... I have a different business that is completely unrelated that employs 50 people... I have to offer him Obamacare and, depending on the state/ city, paid time off, workers comp, pay state and fed UI...
Ok, we agree if the kids is here illegally, I should not morally or legally pay him to mow my lawn. How and why is he here illegally? Did I bring him? Nope. Did I vote for open borders? Nope. Did I catch him and his parents coming across the border and not deport him? Nope. ...
So, why should I take on the enormous burden of doing what the government refuses to do? Why am I responsible for laws the government fails to enforce? I just want someone to mow my lawn so I have one less thing on the honey do list and the place doesn't look like a jungle while I work 80 hours a week.
Posted by: Damiano at August 12, 2016 07:21 PM (71OEY)
900
Yes, because its harder for them to claim ignorance and they now share responsibility for verification.
Thats the whole point.
Also, business owners know who's legal and who's not, but they don't care until it becomes their problem.
All of these excuses for why we can't clamp down on illegal immigration sound awfully weak, like not wanting employers to fill out a simple form or showing a drivers license.
Stuff we already do every day.
----------------
What are you talking about? Employers do this everytime they hire someone. The lawful ones do anyway. Now, if we add a step the unlawful ones are going to suddenly start acting lawfully?
Thats the whole point.
Also, business owners know who's legal and who's not, but they don't care until it becomes their problem.
All of these excuses for why we can't clamp down on illegal immigration sound awfully weak, like not wanting employers to fill out a simple form or showing a drivers license.
Stuff we already do every day.
----------------
What are you talking about? Employers do this everytime they hire someone. The lawful ones do anyway. Now, if we add a step the unlawful ones are going to suddenly start acting lawfully?
Posted by: SH at August 12, 2016 07:21 PM (gmeXX)
901
He said that a year ago. He is just refining his argument to his audience. He doesn't mean a word of it. He does not want border enforcement or deportations. Period
Posted by: ThunderB
Yep
but no one is buying it because everyone already knows showing your id to a cop when he suspects you could be breaking the law is not some Brave New World bullshit.
Posted by: ThunderB
Yep
but no one is buying it because everyone already knows showing your id to a cop when he suspects you could be breaking the law is not some Brave New World bullshit.
Posted by: Maritime at August 12, 2016 07:22 PM (u2zpL)
902
Until a minute ago I couldn't have picked Hope Solo out of a police lineup.
..........
she's the one with the nose giving stinkeye
..........
she's the one with the nose giving stinkeye
Posted by: wth at August 12, 2016 07:22 PM (HgMAr)
903
Hope Solo and Patrick from "Sponge Bob" walk into a bar....
Posted by: Hairyback Guy at August 12, 2016 07:22 PM (ej1L0)
904
>>I'll admit to ignorance here? Whuts up wit dis?
Pro Tip : Stay ignorant until at least 2 hours after your dinner.
Pro Tip : Stay ignorant until at least 2 hours after your dinner.
Posted by: garrett at August 12, 2016 07:23 PM (c1srJ)
905
He thinks it's mean to deport. He said that a year ago.
I'm pretty sure I never said "it's mean to deport" as some blanket argument against deporting anyone ever.
*CAN* it be "mean" under some circumstances? Sure. But not as a general rule.
Furthermore, whether or not it's "mean" is not an argument against doing it.
I'm pretty sure I never said "it's mean to deport" as some blanket argument against deporting anyone ever.
*CAN* it be "mean" under some circumstances? Sure. But not as a general rule.
Furthermore, whether or not it's "mean" is not an argument against doing it.
Posted by: chemjeff at August 12, 2016 07:23 PM (uAvJJ)
906
ace this is one of the most articulate and clear posts you have written. I thank you from the bottom of my heart for writing it.
this is exactly what middle America is experiencing and we're told to shut up and sit down. not care if our children everhave a life of their own or advantages to jobs that immigrants are recieiving
I'm sick of hearing so what, go get a job.
look we havehad jobs all of us, replaced by cheaper, some are even training the new American worker to replace thatemselves
it's fkd up
this is exactly what middle America is experiencing and we're told to shut up and sit down. not care if our children everhave a life of their own or advantages to jobs that immigrants are recieiving
I'm sick of hearing so what, go get a job.
look we havehad jobs all of us, replaced by cheaper, some are even training the new American worker to replace thatemselves
it's fkd up
Posted by: willow at August 12, 2016 07:24 PM (A1MMY)
907
So, why should I take on the enormous burden of doing what the government refuses to do? Why am I responsible for laws the government fails to enforce? I just want someone to mow my lawn so I have one less thing on the honey do list and the place doesn't look like a jungle while I work 80 hours a week.
-------------
Exactly.
-------------
Exactly.
Posted by: SH at August 12, 2016 07:24 PM (gmeXX)
908
What are you talking about? Employers do this everytime they hire someone. The lawful ones do anyway. Now, if we add a step the unlawful ones are going to suddenly start acting lawfully?
Posted by: SH
No they don't.
And yes, making it mandatory would make it hard for an employer to explain why they didn't do what they were supposed to do.
Posted by: SH
No they don't.
And yes, making it mandatory would make it hard for an employer to explain why they didn't do what they were supposed to do.
Posted by: Maritime at August 12, 2016 07:24 PM (u2zpL)
909
Ace, what version of Atlas Shrugged did you read?
Atlas Shrugged was about personal excellence, and the freedom to be your best for your own sake.
Of course, that's the awesomeness of capitalism. After all, I don't make a pile of money selling my toenail clippings on the street corner...I make a pile of money being the best at providing something that's actually *needed*, something *superior* to my competitors; the result of my own unique intellect and willpower to succeed.
I think if you re-read Atlas Shrugged (a daunting task, I know), I think that's what you'll find (that, and MASSIVE contempt for the globalist socialistic--i.e., Progressive--movement).
As for the rest of your analysis, you're right that the Democrats gave up all pretense of putting American interests first, the Republican establishment has become a selfish bunch seemingly only worried about their grasp on the levers of power, and too many Americans just worry about the modern-day version of gladiatorial combat (except they don't even have to move their fat keisters off the couch to partake). Please don't conflate "Randists" (or college-educated engines of the economy, like myself) with our intellectually bankrupt "leaders" you so rightly despise.
(You, by the way, are the most Galtian personality I've read on the web...and that is a(n) *yuuge* complement.)
Atlas Shrugged was about personal excellence, and the freedom to be your best for your own sake.
Of course, that's the awesomeness of capitalism. After all, I don't make a pile of money selling my toenail clippings on the street corner...I make a pile of money being the best at providing something that's actually *needed*, something *superior* to my competitors; the result of my own unique intellect and willpower to succeed.
I think if you re-read Atlas Shrugged (a daunting task, I know), I think that's what you'll find (that, and MASSIVE contempt for the globalist socialistic--i.e., Progressive--movement).
As for the rest of your analysis, you're right that the Democrats gave up all pretense of putting American interests first, the Republican establishment has become a selfish bunch seemingly only worried about their grasp on the levers of power, and too many Americans just worry about the modern-day version of gladiatorial combat (except they don't even have to move their fat keisters off the couch to partake). Please don't conflate "Randists" (or college-educated engines of the economy, like myself) with our intellectually bankrupt "leaders" you so rightly despise.
(You, by the way, are the most Galtian personality I've read on the web...and that is a(n) *yuuge* complement.)
Posted by: CAPT Constitution at August 12, 2016 07:25 PM (rpt2W)
910
Shit. Started raining about 20 min ago, and BAM. Power goes out. I hate browsing on my phone, especially when I'm buzzed.
Posted by: IllTemperedCur at August 12, 2016 07:25 PM (tHAoL)
911
God you are becoming tedious. Yes, they did say
that some states that have laws against it are immune. But the larger
point is that they found that it did not infringe on the 4th Amendment,
the thing you keep insisting would happen if a cop asked you to show an
ID.
You're just arguing for the sake of arguing at this point.
Posted by: JackStraw at August 12, 2016 07:21 PM (/tuJf)
They said it did not infringe on the Fourth Amendment, for DUI checkpoints *on public streets*, which is a privilege in the first place. To my knowledge the Court has not said that it is legal for cops to demand ID of a citizen when they aren't reasonably suspected of doing something wrong in a context other than on public roads.
God you are becoming tedious. Yes, they did say
that some states that have laws against it are immune. But the larger
point is that they found that it did not infringe on the 4th Amendment,
the thing you keep insisting would happen if a cop asked you to show an
ID.
You're just arguing for the sake of arguing at this point.
Posted by: JackStraw at August 12, 2016 07:21 PM (/tuJf)
They said it did not infringe on the Fourth Amendment, for DUI checkpoints *on public streets*, which is a privilege in the first place. To my knowledge the Court has not said that it is legal for cops to demand ID of a citizen when they aren't reasonably suspected of doing something wrong in a context other than on public roads.
Posted by: chemjeff at August 12, 2016 07:25 PM (uAvJJ)
912
I'm glad these 4th Amendment purists weren't around during WW II. Those German spies coming ashore. You can read stories where their 4th Amendment rights were shamefully violated.
Why, if you were walking on the beach, the damned Coast Guard would come up and start asking all sorts of questions. It was like you have to prove you weren't a German spy.
Why, if you were walking on the beach, the damned Coast Guard would come up and start asking all sorts of questions. It was like you have to prove you weren't a German spy.
Posted by: publius (not Breitbart publius) at August 12, 2016 07:25 PM (DW+jj)
913
>>Why am I responsible for laws the government fails to enforce? I just want someone to mow my lawn so I have one less thing on the honey do list and the place doesn't look like a jungle while I work 80 hours a week.
This isn't about the lawn, is it?
This isn't about the lawn, is it?
Posted by: garrett at August 12, 2016 07:26 PM (c1srJ)
914
But minorities don't have IDs. Because IDs are how white supremacists keep them from voting.
Posted by: LIV spoon fed opinion at August 12, 2016 07:26 PM (BZey7)
915
No they don't.
And yes, making it mandatory would make it hard for an employer to explain why they didn't do what they were supposed to do.
----------------
They (and I submit it is much fewer than you think) don't because they want to hire illegals. Guess what, e-verify is not going to change that. They are just going to bypass that system in the same way they by-pass filling out an I-9.
And yes, making it mandatory would make it hard for an employer to explain why they didn't do what they were supposed to do.
----------------
They (and I submit it is much fewer than you think) don't because they want to hire illegals. Guess what, e-verify is not going to change that. They are just going to bypass that system in the same way they by-pass filling out an I-9.
Posted by: SH at August 12, 2016 07:26 PM (gmeXX)
916
The system broke in 2008 with the financial housing crisis as the last straw. Instead of allowing things to unwind naturally and focusing on protecting American Citizens, the GOP and The Dems rushed to protect Big Businesses and cherry picked who failed and who did not.
This was the final And biggest lie sold to the American Citizens. And most bought it.
Now when the same system begins to unwind again, which it will very soon, there are zero arrows in the quiver and the consequences will be 10 fold or more thanks to the Unipartyprogressive Corporatist Totalitarias actions the past 8 years.
DC represents American interests about as well as contracting Ebola-Smallpox represents the interests of keeping their human hosts alive.
This was the final And biggest lie sold to the American Citizens. And most bought it.
Now when the same system begins to unwind again, which it will very soon, there are zero arrows in the quiver and the consequences will be 10 fold or more thanks to the Unipartyprogressive Corporatist Totalitarias actions the past 8 years.
DC represents American interests about as well as contracting Ebola-Smallpox represents the interests of keeping their human hosts alive.
Posted by: Cactus of Liberty at August 12, 2016 07:26 PM (yhYmR)
917
Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at August 12, 2016 07:20 PM (R+30W)
You may be right, I don't go to Home Depot at 0 dark thirty.
You may be right, I don't go to Home Depot at 0 dark thirty.
Posted by: CaliGirl at August 12, 2016 07:27 PM (fsFHj)
918
Chem Jeff I didn't say it was a good argument. I said it was your argument
You morphed from "I heart dreamer, it's mean" to "I'm a civil libertarian "
It's BS. You weren't reasoned into your position about illegals, you won't be reasoned out of it. It's all about feelz
You morphed from "I heart dreamer, it's mean" to "I'm a civil libertarian "
It's BS. You weren't reasoned into your position about illegals, you won't be reasoned out of it. It's all about feelz
Posted by: ThunderB at August 12, 2016 07:27 PM (jG3ty)
919
I'm glad these 4th Amendment purists weren't around during WW II. Those German spies coming ashore. You can read stories where their 4th Amendment rights were shamefully violated.
----------
Hey so is Roosevelt. Interning American citizens from Japan would have been more difficult.
----------
Hey so is Roosevelt. Interning American citizens from Japan would have been more difficult.
Posted by: SH at August 12, 2016 07:27 PM (gmeXX)
920
Hope Solo and the celebutards deserve what they get.
Nekked pics on the cloud. Asking for it.
Nekked pics on the cloud. Asking for it.
Posted by: Mr Aspirin Factory at August 12, 2016 07:27 PM (89T5c)
921
but no one is buying it because everyone already
knows showing your id to a cop when he suspects you could be breaking
the law is not some Brave New World bullshit.
Posted by: Maritime at August 12, 2016 07:22 PM (u2zpL)
That's not the issue. Everyone agrees that if LEO has *reasonable suspicion* that you're breaking the law, then it is not illegal or wrong for the cop to demand ID.
The issue here is if there is no other justification for LEO to ask for ID in the first place, other than (in Anon.Y.Mous's example) a bunch of Latino guys hanging out at the Home Depot.
but no one is buying it because everyone already
knows showing your id to a cop when he suspects you could be breaking
the law is not some Brave New World bullshit.
Posted by: Maritime at August 12, 2016 07:22 PM (u2zpL)
That's not the issue. Everyone agrees that if LEO has *reasonable suspicion* that you're breaking the law, then it is not illegal or wrong for the cop to demand ID.
The issue here is if there is no other justification for LEO to ask for ID in the first place, other than (in Anon.Y.Mous's example) a bunch of Latino guys hanging out at the Home Depot.
Posted by: chemjeff at August 12, 2016 07:27 PM (uAvJJ)
922
look we havehad jobs all of us, replaced by cheaper, some are even training the new American worker to replace thatemselves
This happened to me in January 2013. I got a new job. I was laid off the next week. Two weeks later I get an email saying that some Pradesh guy had my old machine and did I remember the password I used on it.
I figure the game being played here was to hire Americans for one week, then to boot them out, and then claim later on "gee, we tried to hire within the area, but they were a bunch of lazy fuckwits and so we have to look abroad".
... btw, this is one of several reasons that when I supported Cruz, and supported Beauprez before him, it wasn't entirely wholehearted. I knew they were both H1B boosters.
This happened to me in January 2013. I got a new job. I was laid off the next week. Two weeks later I get an email saying that some Pradesh guy had my old machine and did I remember the password I used on it.
I figure the game being played here was to hire Americans for one week, then to boot them out, and then claim later on "gee, we tried to hire within the area, but they were a bunch of lazy fuckwits and so we have to look abroad".
... btw, this is one of several reasons that when I supported Cruz, and supported Beauprez before him, it wasn't entirely wholehearted. I knew they were both H1B boosters.
Posted by: boulder terlit hobo at August 12, 2016 07:28 PM (6FqZa)
923
Do you think having companies withhold taxes is good or bad? I'm sure at the time, it was thought a minor inconvenience.
Have you ever looked up who qualifies as an employee or what is defined as a business? I submit it is never as clear cut as you think, and you may think one thing, but the government thinks another.
Posted by: SH at August 12, 2016 07:17 PM (gmeXX)
++++
I would rip the 16th amendment right out of the constitution this minute if it was in my power.
As I have already told you, businesses are already required to check the work docs of those they hire. E-verify is merely a tool for the business to verify that the docs are legit. Any questions the "business" has about whether or not it is a business or whether the people they are hiring are "employees" are questions they already need to know the answer to. It is not an e-verify issue.
Have you ever looked up who qualifies as an employee or what is defined as a business? I submit it is never as clear cut as you think, and you may think one thing, but the government thinks another.
Posted by: SH at August 12, 2016 07:17 PM (gmeXX)
++++
I would rip the 16th amendment right out of the constitution this minute if it was in my power.
As I have already told you, businesses are already required to check the work docs of those they hire. E-verify is merely a tool for the business to verify that the docs are legit. Any questions the "business" has about whether or not it is a business or whether the people they are hiring are "employees" are questions they already need to know the answer to. It is not an e-verify issue.
Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at August 12, 2016 07:28 PM (R+30W)
924
Simpler version of my prior post:
Paco jumps the border. Border Patrol catches Paco then releases him, per Obama's orders. Paco has no food so steals a candy bar. Police arrest Paco for theft and determine he has no ID, no legal status, and releases him because the store owner doesn't want to go to court over a candy bar. Paco moves in with his cousin next door to me. He sees my yard looking like a jungle and offers to mow my lawn once a week...
DHS raids my yard, seizes my computer, my bank account, and arrests me for employing Paco. Paco walks to my neighbor's house and asks if he needs the lawn mowed.
How come I am the only one going to jail? (Until the raid my neighbor's house).
Paco jumps the border. Border Patrol catches Paco then releases him, per Obama's orders. Paco has no food so steals a candy bar. Police arrest Paco for theft and determine he has no ID, no legal status, and releases him because the store owner doesn't want to go to court over a candy bar. Paco moves in with his cousin next door to me. He sees my yard looking like a jungle and offers to mow my lawn once a week...
DHS raids my yard, seizes my computer, my bank account, and arrests me for employing Paco. Paco walks to my neighbor's house and asks if he needs the lawn mowed.
How come I am the only one going to jail? (Until the raid my neighbor's house).
Posted by: Damiano at August 12, 2016 07:28 PM (71OEY)
925
By the way, how would the federal government know when an employer is not using the e-verify system?
Posted by: SH at August 12, 2016 07:29 PM (gmeXX)
926
Illegals don't have ID's, hell I keep thinking to ask any black person that I feel sorry for them that they can't get a ID, according to leftists anyway.
Posted by: Skip at August 12, 2016 07:29 PM (bksJQ)
927
The only advantages that American companies have: They have a very well-educated, hard working pool of talent, and a (still) relatively stable, safe economy governed by the rule of law, with viable contracts and protection of ownership, compared to other countries. That's it -- other than those, they have no advantages.
Posted by: Pastafarian at August 12, 2016 04:32 PM (sgHEm)
Rule of law? Now who's being naive, Kay?
Remember the massive fucking over bondholders and dealerships that GM's "rescue" involved, not so coincidentally favoring Dem donors and politicians with financial stakes?
GE is one massive rent seeking operation that would have gone tits up if not for their bought and paid for politicians.
Don't get me started on all the sweetheart subsidies and field tilting legislation and regulations given to Warren Buffett's Berkshire owned companies like BNR, while that old bastard gets portrayed as a folksy honest investor.
As for the banks and their bailouts? Most of them didn't need the TARP cashed and used it to buy out other banks or to pad their quarterly reports in order to juice their stock options.
Then there's the Federal Reserve who prints money out of thin air and puts it directly into the stock markets with their high frequency trading computers that would make the most crooked mob owned casinos of the 60's look honest.
Of course they now plan to ban cash so that they can track and tax your last dollar and eliminate savings in order to enslave the populace with debt.
Yeh, if they were on fire I wouldn't piss on them to put it out
Posted by: Pastafarian at August 12, 2016 04:32 PM (sgHEm)
Rule of law? Now who's being naive, Kay?
Remember the massive fucking over bondholders and dealerships that GM's "rescue" involved, not so coincidentally favoring Dem donors and politicians with financial stakes?
GE is one massive rent seeking operation that would have gone tits up if not for their bought and paid for politicians.
Don't get me started on all the sweetheart subsidies and field tilting legislation and regulations given to Warren Buffett's Berkshire owned companies like BNR, while that old bastard gets portrayed as a folksy honest investor.
As for the banks and their bailouts? Most of them didn't need the TARP cashed and used it to buy out other banks or to pad their quarterly reports in order to juice their stock options.
Then there's the Federal Reserve who prints money out of thin air and puts it directly into the stock markets with their high frequency trading computers that would make the most crooked mob owned casinos of the 60's look honest.
Of course they now plan to ban cash so that they can track and tax your last dollar and eliminate savings in order to enslave the populace with debt.
Yeh, if they were on fire I wouldn't piss on them to put it out
Posted by: kbdabear at August 12, 2016 07:30 PM (GrXXa)
928
A town 4 miles from me with a population of 498 has 4-6 guys standing on the corner everyday.
Posted by: Ben Had at August 12, 2016 07:30 PM (X42pZ)
929
Laguna Beach made a separate fenced in area with services where you go pick up your illegal labor. That way you don't see them at the local home improvement store. Sanctuary city you ask? Well of course it is.
Posted by: Tinfoilbaby at August 12, 2016 07:30 PM (6Ll1u)
930
Posted by: ThunderB at August 12, 2016 07:27 PM (jG3ty)
So? So what if I am the biggest cad on the planet. On its face, does my argument have merit or doesn't it?
So? So what if I am the biggest cad on the planet. On its face, does my argument have merit or doesn't it?
Posted by: chemjeff at August 12, 2016 07:30 PM (uAvJJ)
931
926 Illegals don't have ID's, hell I keep thinking to ask any black person that I feel sorry for them that they can't get a ID, according to leftists anyway.
Posted by: Skip at August 12, 2016 07:29 PM (bksJQ)
As they walk out of the store with their beer and Kools.
Posted by: Skip at August 12, 2016 07:29 PM (bksJQ)
As they walk out of the store with their beer and Kools.
Posted by: buzzion at August 12, 2016 07:30 PM (bMG0w)
932
Did anyone happen to mention fuck Disney in particular?
Posted by: fluffy at August 12, 2016 07:30 PM (eiFlk)
933
How come I am the only one going to jail? (Until the raid my neighbor's house).
Why did you hire Paco knowing what the penalty would be?
Is it worth losing our country just so people don't have to take care of their own lawns?
Why did you hire Paco knowing what the penalty would be?
Is it worth losing our country just so people don't have to take care of their own lawns?
Posted by: V the K at August 12, 2016 07:30 PM (jn7FC)
934
As I have already told you, businesses are already required to check the work docs of those they hire.
--------------
Then I frankly do not see the need to add a further step.
--------------
Then I frankly do not see the need to add a further step.
Posted by: SH at August 12, 2016 07:30 PM (gmeXX)
935
>>That's not the issue. Everyone agrees that if LEO has *reasonable suspicion* that you're breaking the law, then it is not illegal or wrong for the cop to demand ID.
These were the exact examples I provided for you and you summarily ignored them and insisted that anyone who disagrees with your bullshit argument is promoting an American Gestapo.
Kindly, I reiterate - Get. Your. Shine. Box.
These were the exact examples I provided for you and you summarily ignored them and insisted that anyone who disagrees with your bullshit argument is promoting an American Gestapo.
Kindly, I reiterate - Get. Your. Shine. Box.
Posted by: garrett at August 12, 2016 07:31 PM (c1srJ)
936
"That's why Justice O'Connor's indifference to jurisdictional integrity
and partiality to foreigners is not just a kinky fetish but something
philosophically incompatible with the job she's meant to be doing."
Former SCOTUS clerk Ed Lazarus wrote scathingly about the philosophically rudderless O'Connor. Where the supreme law of the land would vary wildly based on what she had consumed for lunch that day.
and partiality to foreigners is not just a kinky fetish but something
philosophically incompatible with the job she's meant to be doing."
Former SCOTUS clerk Ed Lazarus wrote scathingly about the philosophically rudderless O'Connor. Where the supreme law of the land would vary wildly based on what she had consumed for lunch that day.
Posted by: torquewrench at August 12, 2016 07:31 PM (noWW6)
937
If said non- E-Verify company starts to file taxes for illegal. I guess companies could allways hire under the table.
Posted by: Skip at August 12, 2016 07:31 PM (bksJQ)
938
They (and I submit it is much fewer than you think) don't because they want to hire illegals. Guess what, e-verify is not going to change that. They are just going to bypass that system in the same way they by-pass filling out an I-9.
Posted by: SH
++++++++
I pulled this info since you clearly know nothing about the topics you are talking about:
The I-9 does not require a social security number (indeed, requiring a potential employee to produce a social security card for I-9 purposes is a substantive violation and could result in significant fines). By contrast, E-Verify requires a social security number.
There are some key differences between Form I-9 and the E-Verify program:
the I-9 is mandatory for all employers, while E-Verify is voluntary for most businesses, although it is required for federal contractors, and many states also require E-verify for some businesses. Here's a map to find out about your state:
The I-9 does not require a photo on identity documents, whereas E-Verify does.
Lastly, the I-9 must be used to re-verify expired employment authorization, whereas E-Verify forbids doing so.
Posted by: SH
++++++++
I pulled this info since you clearly know nothing about the topics you are talking about:
The I-9 does not require a social security number (indeed, requiring a potential employee to produce a social security card for I-9 purposes is a substantive violation and could result in significant fines). By contrast, E-Verify requires a social security number.
There are some key differences between Form I-9 and the E-Verify program:
the I-9 is mandatory for all employers, while E-Verify is voluntary for most businesses, although it is required for federal contractors, and many states also require E-verify for some businesses. Here's a map to find out about your state:
The I-9 does not require a photo on identity documents, whereas E-Verify does.
Lastly, the I-9 must be used to re-verify expired employment authorization, whereas E-Verify forbids doing so.
Posted by: Maritime at August 12, 2016 07:32 PM (u2zpL)
939
police ask for your id when out walking, when driving, to rent or own you must show id,to cash a check you must show id, to get hiredfor a job you must show id, to rent a freakin video or to open a bank account.. anyway
why should I have to show ID when others shouldn't be asked because it's rude?
why should I have to show ID when others shouldn't be asked because it's rude?
Posted by: willow at August 12, 2016 07:32 PM (A1MMY)
940
These were the exact examples I provided for you and you summarily ignored them and insisted that anyone who disagrees with your bullshit argument is promoting an American Gestapo.
Kindly, I reiterate - Get. Your. Shine. Box.
Posted by: garrett at August 12, 2016 07:31 PM (c1srJ)
And then he claimed that no one is arguing that people are advocating the police start lining up people and shouting "Papers Please!"
You know except him.
These were the exact examples I provided for you and you summarily ignored them and insisted that anyone who disagrees with your bullshit argument is promoting an American Gestapo.
Kindly, I reiterate - Get. Your. Shine. Box.
Posted by: garrett at August 12, 2016 07:31 PM (c1srJ)
And then he claimed that no one is arguing that people are advocating the police start lining up people and shouting "Papers Please!"
You know except him.
Posted by: buzzion at August 12, 2016 07:33 PM (bMG0w)
941
A bunch of Latinos hanging around outside a place where it's known that illegal workers congregate is a common sense place to start looking for illegal aliens. Should the cops look for Insider Traders or corrupt bankers among street-level crack dealers, just to be fair? Or maybe we should investigate the Amish for suspicion of distributing nuclear secrets, just to be fair.
Posted by: Lincolntf at August 12, 2016 07:34 PM (2cS/G)
942
On its face, does my argument have merit or doesn't it?
Posted by: chemjeff at August 12, 2016 07:30 PM (uAvJJ)
No. You used up all your merit. Therefore, your arguments have none.
Posted by: chemjeff at August 12, 2016 07:30 PM (uAvJJ)
No. You used up all your merit. Therefore, your arguments have none.
Posted by: BurtTC at August 12, 2016 07:34 PM (Pz4pT)
943
928 A town 4 miles from me with a population of 498 has 4-6 guys standing on the corner everyday.
Posted by: Ben Had at August 12, 2016 07:30 PM (X42pZ)
Here you can't drive a pick up to Home Depot without shooing the illegals away.
Posted by: Ben Had at August 12, 2016 07:30 PM (X42pZ)
Here you can't drive a pick up to Home Depot without shooing the illegals away.
Posted by: dagny at August 12, 2016 07:34 PM (eSQgj)
Posted by: davidt at August 12, 2016 07:35 PM (mkppl)
945
I pulled this info since you clearly know nothing about the topics you are talking about:
The I-9 does not require a social security number (indeed, requiring a potential employee to produce a social security card for I-9 purposes is a substantive violation and could result in significant fines). By contrast, E-Verify requires a social security number.
There are some key differences between Form I-9 and the E-Verify program:
the I-9 is mandatory for all employers, while E-Verify is voluntary for most businesses, although it is required for federal contractors, and many states also require E-verify for some businesses. Here's a map to find out about your state:
The I-9 does not require a photo on identity documents, whereas E-Verify does.
Lastly, the I-9 must be used to re-verify expired employment authorization, whereas E-Verify forbids doing so.
-------------
Yes, I know e-verify is voluntarily. But many are proposing it be made mandatory.
Once again, why do you assume that those who don't check for I-9s will suddenly do so. And if they don't, how will e-verify help crack down. How will the government know you are not using it?
The I-9 does not require a social security number (indeed, requiring a potential employee to produce a social security card for I-9 purposes is a substantive violation and could result in significant fines). By contrast, E-Verify requires a social security number.
There are some key differences between Form I-9 and the E-Verify program:
the I-9 is mandatory for all employers, while E-Verify is voluntary for most businesses, although it is required for federal contractors, and many states also require E-verify for some businesses. Here's a map to find out about your state:
The I-9 does not require a photo on identity documents, whereas E-Verify does.
Lastly, the I-9 must be used to re-verify expired employment authorization, whereas E-Verify forbids doing so.
-------------
Yes, I know e-verify is voluntarily. But many are proposing it be made mandatory.
Once again, why do you assume that those who don't check for I-9s will suddenly do so. And if they don't, how will e-verify help crack down. How will the government know you are not using it?
Posted by: SH at August 12, 2016 07:36 PM (gmeXX)
946
>>DHS raids my yard, seizes my computer, my bank account, and arrests me for employing Paco. Paco walks to my neighbor's house and asks if he needs the lawn mowed.
Pretty unlikely scenario given that we don't enforce immigration laws.
But if you claimed Paco was an independent contractor and not your employee then you would have zero liability anyway. You could then tell the cops to get off your well manicured lawn.
Pretty unlikely scenario given that we don't enforce immigration laws.
But if you claimed Paco was an independent contractor and not your employee then you would have zero liability anyway. You could then tell the cops to get off your well manicured lawn.
Posted by: JackStraw at August 12, 2016 07:36 PM (/tuJf)
947
Boulder, most of my family have recovered, if recovering means taking jobs 1/3 of our previous income for the last 8 years, hey we can all live like 3rd world countries now wioth gramma, grampa, sons daughters, grandchildren all living cozily together in one home.
Posted by: willow at August 12, 2016 07:36 PM (A1MMY)
948
935
>>That's not the issue. Everyone agrees that if LEO has
*reasonable suspicion* that you're breaking the law, then it is not
illegal or wrong for the cop to demand ID.
These were the exact examples I provided for you and you summarily
ignored them and insisted that anyone who disagrees with your bullshit
argument is promoting an American Gestapo.
Kindly, I reiterate - Get. Your. Shine. Box.
Posted by: garrett at August 12, 2016 07:31 PM (c1srJ)
That is incorrect, garrett.
In #466 you mentioned minor violations of the law that the police may legitimately ask for ID about. I didn't actually respond to that one, but I agree, those are reasonable.
But in #814, you wrote:
814
Providing ID when requested to do so is not even on my fucking radar of Government Overreach.
Anyone who claims it to be so is merely posturing.
Posted by: garrett at August 12, 2016 07:01 PM (c1srJ)
(emphasis added)
You did not indicate that the "when requested to do so" was a part of the police stopping someone after committing some minor crime. In fact, the example under discussion at the time were Latino guys hanging out at Home Depot, which is not per se a crime. So your hostility is not warranted it would seem.
And I never accused anyone of promoting a Gestapo. That is irrational hyperbole.
935
>>That's not the issue. Everyone agrees that if LEO has
*reasonable suspicion* that you're breaking the law, then it is not
illegal or wrong for the cop to demand ID.
These were the exact examples I provided for you and you summarily
ignored them and insisted that anyone who disagrees with your bullshit
argument is promoting an American Gestapo.
Kindly, I reiterate - Get. Your. Shine. Box.
Posted by: garrett at August 12, 2016 07:31 PM (c1srJ)
That is incorrect, garrett.
In #466 you mentioned minor violations of the law that the police may legitimately ask for ID about. I didn't actually respond to that one, but I agree, those are reasonable.
But in #814, you wrote:
814
Providing ID when requested to do so is not even on my fucking radar of Government Overreach.
Anyone who claims it to be so is merely posturing.
Posted by: garrett at August 12, 2016 07:01 PM (c1srJ)
(emphasis added)
You did not indicate that the "when requested to do so" was a part of the police stopping someone after committing some minor crime. In fact, the example under discussion at the time were Latino guys hanging out at Home Depot, which is not per se a crime. So your hostility is not warranted it would seem.
And I never accused anyone of promoting a Gestapo. That is irrational hyperbole.
Posted by: chemjeff at August 12, 2016 07:36 PM (uAvJJ)
949
Colleges and the education system gets a shot ton of money from the feds and states to admit and teach illegals and foreign students. Yes? No?
Spoiler Alert: Yes
Spoiler Alert: Yes
Posted by: Cactus of Liberty at August 12, 2016 07:37 PM (yhYmR)
950
Boy howdy. Ain't I the lucky one. Go away for an hour and come back to the same old arguments served up over-easy with ketchup on the side. Will it ever end?
Posted by: grammie winger at August 12, 2016 07:37 PM (dFi94)
951
And then he claimed that no one is arguing that
people are advocating the police start lining up people and shouting
"Papers Please!"
You know except him.
Posted by: buzzion at August 12, 2016 07:33 PM (bMG0w)
Show me where I advocated this.
And then he claimed that no one is arguing that
people are advocating the police start lining up people and shouting
"Papers Please!"
You know except him.
Posted by: buzzion at August 12, 2016 07:33 PM (bMG0w)
Show me where I advocated this.
Posted by: chemjeff at August 12, 2016 07:38 PM (uAvJJ)
952
>>> Do you think having companies withhold taxes is good or bad? I'm sure at the time, it was thought
.....
OMG!!!
Bad. Super bad. Worse than Satan bad.
I am a citizen. I accept that I need to pay the goverment to do certain things that I cannot practically do myself... such as maintain a military. My means of doing so is by paying taxes. Fine.
So, I am an employer. Obama fights to not extend Bush's SS tax holiday in 2010. Being a caring guy, I send out a letter at the end of 2009 to all my employees saying, "Hey, the SS tax holiday ends on Jan. 1. Expect your take home pay to be lower". First check after Jan 1st... everyone is in my office bitching that I cut there pay, demanding raises, etc.
Then they go home and talk to all their friends and neighbor's about what an asshole I am and how they need to vote for more Democrats to force me to pay them more.
You want to fix taxes in a second? Make people cut the check themselves to Uncle Sam every pay period and stop the bullshit of the IRS sending them money every year like a benefactor.
Anyone who is self employed understands this.
.....
OMG!!!
Bad. Super bad. Worse than Satan bad.
I am a citizen. I accept that I need to pay the goverment to do certain things that I cannot practically do myself... such as maintain a military. My means of doing so is by paying taxes. Fine.
So, I am an employer. Obama fights to not extend Bush's SS tax holiday in 2010. Being a caring guy, I send out a letter at the end of 2009 to all my employees saying, "Hey, the SS tax holiday ends on Jan. 1. Expect your take home pay to be lower". First check after Jan 1st... everyone is in my office bitching that I cut there pay, demanding raises, etc.
Then they go home and talk to all their friends and neighbor's about what an asshole I am and how they need to vote for more Democrats to force me to pay them more.
You want to fix taxes in a second? Make people cut the check themselves to Uncle Sam every pay period and stop the bullshit of the IRS sending them money every year like a benefactor.
Anyone who is self employed understands this.
Posted by: Damiano at August 12, 2016 07:38 PM (71OEY)
953
Evening, all. This is an old, stinky comments thread.
Posted by: DangerGirl and her 1.21 gigawatt Sanity Prod at August 12, 2016 07:39 PM (+eR2D)
954
Gee, I thought that the guard who asked for my ID every time I drove onto post was a "guard" not the Gestapo. I had no idea. I guess next time I should lecture him about "fairness" and "freedom" because that's sure to get me an easy "in."
I am literally sick of this shit.
Get a damn ID. Provide it when asked. We are being invaded, that's how we tell who and who is not a citizen. Sorry it's come to that, but that's what happens when you don't vote against the democrat.
I am literally sick of this shit.
Get a damn ID. Provide it when asked. We are being invaded, that's how we tell who and who is not a citizen. Sorry it's come to that, but that's what happens when you don't vote against the democrat.
Posted by: dagny at August 12, 2016 07:39 PM (eSQgj)
955
Go away for an hour and come back to the same old arguments served up over-easy with ketchup on the side. Will it ever end?
------------
Gosh I hope not. These are important arguments. If we stop arguing them, then we really do live in a police state or we are dead and in heaven. Until then, we'll have to argue this out, because the question of liberty v. security will never go away.
------------
Gosh I hope not. These are important arguments. If we stop arguing them, then we really do live in a police state or we are dead and in heaven. Until then, we'll have to argue this out, because the question of liberty v. security will never go away.
Posted by: SH at August 12, 2016 07:40 PM (gmeXX)
956
Get a damn ID. Provide it when asked.
Even when not visiting a military base, and even when not doing something wrong?
Get a damn ID. Provide it when asked.
Even when not visiting a military base, and even when not doing something wrong?
Posted by: chemjeff at August 12, 2016 07:40 PM (uAvJJ)
957
Oh, we're doing this again. Great. Every fucking day with the same shit.
Posted by: DangerGirl and her 1.21 gigawatt Sanity Prod at August 12, 2016 07:40 PM (+eR2D)
958
Wishcasting about secret voters and rigged polls aside, what are we going to do if/when Trump loses this thing? What's our plan for getting through the Cankles Era?
Posted by: V the K at August 12, 2016 07:41 PM (jn7FC)
959
Posted by: Damiano at August 12, 2016 07:38 PM (71OEY)
The only reason they don't do it is because they know it would be a problem to collect.
The only reason they don't do it is because they know it would be a problem to collect.
Posted by: dagny at August 12, 2016 07:41 PM (eSQgj)
960
934 As I have already told you, businesses are already required to check the work docs of those they hire.
--------------
Then I frankly do not see the need to add a further step.
Posted by: SH at August 12, 2016 07:30 PM (gmeXX)
++++
1. Dishonorable applicants who provide falsified documents
2. Dishonorable employers who are hiring people who either don't have the docs or present obviously bogus docs.
--------------
Then I frankly do not see the need to add a further step.
Posted by: SH at August 12, 2016 07:30 PM (gmeXX)
++++
1. Dishonorable applicants who provide falsified documents
2. Dishonorable employers who are hiring people who either don't have the docs or present obviously bogus docs.
Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at August 12, 2016 07:41 PM (R+30W)
961
146
Elon Musk is not a visionary, he's a very successful cronyist leech. If it were not for subsidies and government cash he'd still be that guy in your neighborhood with the huge antenna in the back yard and all the solar panels on his roof.
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at August 12, 2016 04:48 PM (39g3+)
I'm pretty sure his picture is next to the word "visionary" in the dictionary.
One of my pet peeves is the way he is singled out as a beneficiary of government subsidies for electric cars. Tesla is a very small company that makes cars for a high-end niche market. Other, much larger companies like GM and Toyota also make electric cars which are more affordable, and buyers of those cars also get the subsidy. The federal government gives a rebate of $7500, and several states, most notably California, offer additional incentives of their own.
Who is more likely to be influenced by a $7500 rebate, the buyer of a $40,000 Chevy Volt or the buyer of a $100,000 Tesla Model S? I don't know what the numbers are, but I'd bet that the big car companies benefit from the subsidy more than Tesla does.
When you do your taxes, do you not take advantage of every legal deduction you can? You'd be foolish not to. Musk didn't create the subsidies, but he's taking advantage of their existence. I can't really fault him for that.
The problem is the subsidies themselves. The government has no business picking winners and losers, and tilting the playing field for or against particular technologies.
Elon Musk is not a visionary, he's a very successful cronyist leech. If it were not for subsidies and government cash he'd still be that guy in your neighborhood with the huge antenna in the back yard and all the solar panels on his roof.
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at August 12, 2016 04:48 PM (39g3+)
I'm pretty sure his picture is next to the word "visionary" in the dictionary.
One of my pet peeves is the way he is singled out as a beneficiary of government subsidies for electric cars. Tesla is a very small company that makes cars for a high-end niche market. Other, much larger companies like GM and Toyota also make electric cars which are more affordable, and buyers of those cars also get the subsidy. The federal government gives a rebate of $7500, and several states, most notably California, offer additional incentives of their own.
Who is more likely to be influenced by a $7500 rebate, the buyer of a $40,000 Chevy Volt or the buyer of a $100,000 Tesla Model S? I don't know what the numbers are, but I'd bet that the big car companies benefit from the subsidy more than Tesla does.
When you do your taxes, do you not take advantage of every legal deduction you can? You'd be foolish not to. Musk didn't create the subsidies, but he's taking advantage of their existence. I can't really fault him for that.
The problem is the subsidies themselves. The government has no business picking winners and losers, and tilting the playing field for or against particular technologies.
Posted by: rickl at August 12, 2016 07:42 PM (sdi6R)
962
If there was a movie thread that would be different not that it matters I havd to work tomorrow
Posted by: Skip at August 12, 2016 07:42 PM (bksJQ)
963
>> In fact, the example under discussion at the time were Latino guys hanging out at Home Depot, which is not per se a crime
Again, except when it is. There are many municipalities around the country that have very specific laws that adress this exact fucking problem.
but, you would rather argue ACLU talking points as though we were all sitting around the faculty lounge, postulating.
You are tedious and you are grossly ill informed about all things legal. Both Criminal and Constitutional.
On top of that, you are a piss poor Sophist.
Admittedly, you are one hell of a chicken fucker.
Again, except when it is. There are many municipalities around the country that have very specific laws that adress this exact fucking problem.
but, you would rather argue ACLU talking points as though we were all sitting around the faculty lounge, postulating.
You are tedious and you are grossly ill informed about all things legal. Both Criminal and Constitutional.
On top of that, you are a piss poor Sophist.
Admittedly, you are one hell of a chicken fucker.
Posted by: garrett at August 12, 2016 07:42 PM (c1srJ)
964
Once again, why do you assume that those who don't check for I-9s will suddenly do so. And if they don't, how will e-verify help crack down. How will the government know you are not using it?
Posted by: SH
You keep moving the goal posts. First you said its all the same, its just a redundant document.
An I-9 doesn't even check for a SS#, that alone is huge for identity theft purposes.
If a business is not complying with a mandatory E-Verify, there's penalties. Right now, its very easy for an employer to claim ignorance because the I-9 form is a joke
Obviously, the fact that La Raza type groups flipped out over E-Verify tell you how effective they think it is.
Posted by: SH
You keep moving the goal posts. First you said its all the same, its just a redundant document.
An I-9 doesn't even check for a SS#, that alone is huge for identity theft purposes.
If a business is not complying with a mandatory E-Verify, there's penalties. Right now, its very easy for an employer to claim ignorance because the I-9 form is a joke
Obviously, the fact that La Raza type groups flipped out over E-Verify tell you how effective they think it is.
Posted by: Maritime at August 12, 2016 07:42 PM (u2zpL)
965
1. Dishonorable applicants who provide falsified documents
2. Dishonorable employers who are hiring people who either don't have the docs or present obviously bogus docs.
---------
And when it doesn't solve either, then what?
2. Dishonorable employers who are hiring people who either don't have the docs or present obviously bogus docs.
---------
And when it doesn't solve either, then what?
Posted by: SH at August 12, 2016 07:43 PM (gmeXX)
966
Show me where I advocated this.
Posted by: chemjeff at August 12, 2016 07:38 PM (uAvJJ)
By what you keep repeating you are claiming that people are advocating that this is what they want to happen.
Posted by: chemjeff at August 12, 2016 07:38 PM (uAvJJ)
By what you keep repeating you are claiming that people are advocating that this is what they want to happen.
Posted by: buzzion at August 12, 2016 07:43 PM (bMG0w)
967
So, howbout them Eagles?
Meanwhile, we have a shitton of rain coming to us here in DFW. In August. Which is unheard of. Temps are supposed to drop into the 80's. In August. Unheard of. It was a hundred and some other number hot today.
Meanwhile, we have a shitton of rain coming to us here in DFW. In August. Which is unheard of. Temps are supposed to drop into the 80's. In August. Unheard of. It was a hundred and some other number hot today.
Posted by: DangerGirl and her 1.21 gigawatt Sanity Prod at August 12, 2016 07:43 PM (+eR2D)
968
Get a damn ID. Provide it when asked.
Even when not visiting a military base, and even when not doing something wrong?
Posted by: chemjeff at August 12, 2016 07:40 PM (uAvJJ)
We've been invaded. You get that, right?
Even when not visiting a military base, and even when not doing something wrong?
Posted by: chemjeff at August 12, 2016 07:40 PM (uAvJJ)
We've been invaded. You get that, right?
Posted by: dagny at August 12, 2016 07:43 PM (eSQgj)
969
We've been invaded. You get that, right?
Posted by: dagny at August 12, 2016 07:43 PM (eSQgj)
Oh boy here. We go. He doesn't he's going to flip out because you used that word.
Posted by: dagny at August 12, 2016 07:43 PM (eSQgj)
Oh boy here. We go. He doesn't he's going to flip out because you used that word.
Posted by: buzzion at August 12, 2016 07:44 PM (bMG0w)
970
Damiano illustrates a point I've seen in the construction trades. I drove a concrete mixer for a year in Pahrump Nevada where they were building like crazy, and then for a year in the Denver area. Working concrete is hard dirty work.
In Pahrump, there were about seven or eight crews that we worked with on a regular basis. All of them had one thing in common. They all had only one or two guys that spoke English fairly fluently and the rest of the crew only spoke Spanish. I could empathize. They were mostly all good guys to work with, but I couldn't tell you by looking who was there legally or not. And they worked hard. Ten and twelve hour days were the norm.
When I came back up to Denver, the number of crews I worked with was much larger. I only worked with one crew that I knew were all Americans. The rest were like in Pahrump. One guy mostly spoke English, the rest couldn't. Again, I really couldn't tell who was here legally or not. I had to assume that most were not. There were other problems related to concrete but I won't go into them here.
One point I'm trying to make is that US contractors would hire these guys because they would work for less than their American counterparts, and the tax advantages of hiring an illegal outweighed the penalties.
In fact, US Trade Unions quit offering building trade apprenticeships because they couldn't find jobs for the people they were training. They were priced out of the market. It still works for some unions, like electricians and heavy equipment operators, but for framers, roofers, concrete workers, etc, those jobs are gone.
Jobs that Americans won't do, but with Damiano's example from yesterday, it's jobs that Americans won't do because they may have to work too hard for not enough money.
They are jobs that Americans can do, they just don't want to get their hands dirty, and that's a sad commentary. When everyone is told they "deserve" to go to college, but come out with no saleable skills, it's a disservice to the kids, and restricts our labor pool.
Sorry for the long screed.
In Pahrump, there were about seven or eight crews that we worked with on a regular basis. All of them had one thing in common. They all had only one or two guys that spoke English fairly fluently and the rest of the crew only spoke Spanish. I could empathize. They were mostly all good guys to work with, but I couldn't tell you by looking who was there legally or not. And they worked hard. Ten and twelve hour days were the norm.
When I came back up to Denver, the number of crews I worked with was much larger. I only worked with one crew that I knew were all Americans. The rest were like in Pahrump. One guy mostly spoke English, the rest couldn't. Again, I really couldn't tell who was here legally or not. I had to assume that most were not. There were other problems related to concrete but I won't go into them here.
One point I'm trying to make is that US contractors would hire these guys because they would work for less than their American counterparts, and the tax advantages of hiring an illegal outweighed the penalties.
In fact, US Trade Unions quit offering building trade apprenticeships because they couldn't find jobs for the people they were training. They were priced out of the market. It still works for some unions, like electricians and heavy equipment operators, but for framers, roofers, concrete workers, etc, those jobs are gone.
Jobs that Americans won't do, but with Damiano's example from yesterday, it's jobs that Americans won't do because they may have to work too hard for not enough money.
They are jobs that Americans can do, they just don't want to get their hands dirty, and that's a sad commentary. When everyone is told they "deserve" to go to college, but come out with no saleable skills, it's a disservice to the kids, and restricts our labor pool.
Sorry for the long screed.
Posted by: Old Blue at August 12, 2016 07:44 PM (9iR5/)
971
We've been invaded. You get that, right?
Posted by: dagny at August 12, 2016 07:43 PM (eSQgj)
Oh, I get it all right.
We've been invaded. You get that, right?
Posted by: dagny at August 12, 2016 07:43 PM (eSQgj)
Oh, I get it all right.
Posted by: chemjeff at August 12, 2016 07:44 PM (uAvJJ)
Posted by: BurtTC at August 12, 2016 07:44 PM (Pz4pT)
973
We've been invaded. You get that, right?
------------
You get that we do not all agree with your hyperbolic statement and are willing to give up our liberties just to make ourselves feel better that we are doing something about a problem.
------------
You get that we do not all agree with your hyperbolic statement and are willing to give up our liberties just to make ourselves feel better that we are doing something about a problem.
Posted by: SH at August 12, 2016 07:44 PM (gmeXX)
974
Man alive, I've seen arguments regarding the inerrancy of Scripture that were shorter than this thread.
Posted by: grammie winger at August 12, 2016 07:45 PM (dFi94)
975
Pretty unlikely scenario given that we don't enforce immigration laws.
But if you claimed Paco was an independent contractor and not your employee then you would have zero liability anyway. You could then tell the cops to get off your well manicured lawn.
Posted by: JackStraw at August 12, 2016 07:36 PM
Incorrect. Non enforcement does happen... within the government itself. Where is does happen is with employers. The government, as usual, does not hold itself to the same laws it prosecutes individuals for.
Second, if Paco works on a schedule that I determine, he uses my lawnmower, and i have any say about his quality of work (WTF Paco? Why do you keep running over corona can and busting up my lawnmower blade?) then- legally- he is an employee and I should be doing all the fun paperwork involved.
Does this get enforced? Didn't used to but go search local paper for lemonade stands and Google the vastly increasing amount of 1099 prosecutions going on. Uncle Sam does NOT like it when you skirt paying taxes on behalf of employees by calling them contractors.
But if you claimed Paco was an independent contractor and not your employee then you would have zero liability anyway. You could then tell the cops to get off your well manicured lawn.
Posted by: JackStraw at August 12, 2016 07:36 PM
Incorrect. Non enforcement does happen... within the government itself. Where is does happen is with employers. The government, as usual, does not hold itself to the same laws it prosecutes individuals for.
Second, if Paco works on a schedule that I determine, he uses my lawnmower, and i have any say about his quality of work (WTF Paco? Why do you keep running over corona can and busting up my lawnmower blade?) then- legally- he is an employee and I should be doing all the fun paperwork involved.
Does this get enforced? Didn't used to but go search local paper for lemonade stands and Google the vastly increasing amount of 1099 prosecutions going on. Uncle Sam does NOT like it when you skirt paying taxes on behalf of employees by calling them contractors.
Posted by: Damiano at August 12, 2016 07:45 PM (71OEY)
976
dagny- AMEN
Posted by: Ben Had at August 12, 2016 07:45 PM (X42pZ)
977
Should the owners of a property be held accountable for renting to illegals?
I believe so.
*ducks and covers*
I believe so.
*ducks and covers*
Posted by: Cactus of Liberty at August 12, 2016 07:46 PM (yhYmR)
978
Does this get enforced? Didn't used to but go search local paper for lemonade stands and Google the vastly increasing amount of 1099 prosecutions going on. Uncle Sam does NOT like it when you skirt paying taxes on behalf of employees by calling them contractors.
-------------
Don't worry, the burden is on you to prove that he/she is an independent contractor. By the way, the penalties for failure to withhold can be substantial, so you better not screw it up.
-------------
Don't worry, the burden is on you to prove that he/she is an independent contractor. By the way, the penalties for failure to withhold can be substantial, so you better not screw it up.
Posted by: SH at August 12, 2016 07:47 PM (gmeXX)
979
974
Man alive, I've seen arguments regarding the inerrancy of Scripture that were shorter than this thread.
Posted by: grammie winger
Wait until we get started on pin-dancing angels.
Man alive, I've seen arguments regarding the inerrancy of Scripture that were shorter than this thread.
Posted by: grammie winger
Wait until we get started on pin-dancing angels.
Posted by: pep at August 12, 2016 07:47 PM (LAe3v)
980
Boy howdy. Ain't I the lucky one. Go away for an hour and come back to
the same old arguments served up over-easy with ketchup on the side.
Will it ever end?
Posted by: grammie winger at August 12, 2016 07:37 PM
Good evening, grammie. I trust your wedding and honeymoon went swimmingly!
Yes, it will end when I am in my proper place as the Emperor.
You see, nothing will be served with ketchup. Only the finest catsups will be served.
Lovey says hi!
the same old arguments served up over-easy with ketchup on the side.
Will it ever end?
Posted by: grammie winger at August 12, 2016 07:37 PM
Good evening, grammie. I trust your wedding and honeymoon went swimmingly!
Yes, it will end when I am in my proper place as the Emperor.
You see, nothing will be served with ketchup. Only the finest catsups will be served.
Lovey says hi!
Posted by: Thurston Howard III at August 12, 2016 07:48 PM (OF/aZ)
981
grammie, how is married life treating you?
Posted by: DangerGirl and her 1.21 gigawatt Sanity Prod at August 12, 2016 07:48 PM (+eR2D)
982
Drudge headline says Granny Cadaver McBotox got her PC hacked.
Posted by: Mr. Peebles at August 12, 2016 07:48 PM (+wjl1)
983
Let's have an argument over where Cain got his wife while we're at it.
Posted by: publius (not Breitbart publius) at August 12, 2016 07:48 PM (DW+jj)
984
I've seen arguments regarding the inerrancy of Scripture that were shorter than this thread.
-
Except that part about Job. That's just disgusting.
-
Except that part about Job. That's just disgusting.
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Now With More Je Ne Sais Quoi! at August 12, 2016 07:49 PM (Nwg0u)
985
We've been invaded. You get that, right?
Posted by: dagny
What do you mean by "invaded"? And by "get"? And what does that "?" at the end of a question mean?
We've been invaded. You get that, right?
Posted by: dagny
What do you mean by "invaded"? And by "get"? And what does that "?" at the end of a question mean?
Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at August 12, 2016 07:49 PM (kdS6q)
986
Wait until we get started on pin-dancing angels.
Posted by: pep
Who, by the way, use compound Mongol bows and prefer MaryAnne, because, really, who doesn't?
Posted by: pep
Who, by the way, use compound Mongol bows and prefer MaryAnne, because, really, who doesn't?
Posted by: pep at August 12, 2016 07:49 PM (LAe3v)
987
Yes, I know e-verify is voluntarily. But many are proposing it be made mandatory.
Once again, why do you assume that those who don't check for I-9s will suddenly do so. And if they don't, how will e-verify help crack down. How will the government know you are not using it?
Posted by: SH at August 12, 2016 07:36 PM (gmeXX)
++++
It removes a possible defense by criminal employers who deliberately hire illegal aliens. As it stands now, they can accept clearly bogus documents when hiring, and then later say that they had no idea the employee wasn't legal. If required to go through the e-verify process at the time of hire, they will find out before they hire the illegal that the person is illegal and therefore that they can't hire them.
Once again, why do you assume that those who don't check for I-9s will suddenly do so. And if they don't, how will e-verify help crack down. How will the government know you are not using it?
Posted by: SH at August 12, 2016 07:36 PM (gmeXX)
++++
It removes a possible defense by criminal employers who deliberately hire illegal aliens. As it stands now, they can accept clearly bogus documents when hiring, and then later say that they had no idea the employee wasn't legal. If required to go through the e-verify process at the time of hire, they will find out before they hire the illegal that the person is illegal and therefore that they can't hire them.
Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at August 12, 2016 07:49 PM (R+30W)
988
>>Let's have an argument over where Cain got his wife while we're at it.
I'd rather argue about where Lot should have sold his wife to maximize his profits.
I'd rather argue about where Lot should have sold his wife to maximize his profits.
Posted by: garrett at August 12, 2016 07:50 PM (c1srJ)
989
Posted by: garrett at August 12, 2016 07:42 PM (c1srJ)
Good, you got all of those personal insults out of your system. Now maybe we can discuss the issue at hand.
Again, except when it is. There are many municipalities around the
country that have very specific laws that adress this exact fucking
problem.
As far as I am aware - and please, correct me if I'm wrong - anti-loitering laws are only legal if the loitering behavior is associated with some other crime, such as prostitution, or with "generally disruptive behavior". If Paco and his buddies hang out at the Home Depot, and aren't committing some other crime, and aren't disrupting or rude to people, and if the private property owners don't ask them to be evicted, then what they are doing is not per se illegal. That is my understanding anyway. If you have a different understanding, please share it with us.
Posted by: garrett at August 12, 2016 07:42 PM (c1srJ)
Good, you got all of those personal insults out of your system. Now maybe we can discuss the issue at hand.
Again, except when it is. There are many municipalities around the
country that have very specific laws that adress this exact fucking
problem.
As far as I am aware - and please, correct me if I'm wrong - anti-loitering laws are only legal if the loitering behavior is associated with some other crime, such as prostitution, or with "generally disruptive behavior". If Paco and his buddies hang out at the Home Depot, and aren't committing some other crime, and aren't disrupting or rude to people, and if the private property owners don't ask them to be evicted, then what they are doing is not per se illegal. That is my understanding anyway. If you have a different understanding, please share it with us.
Posted by: chemjeff at August 12, 2016 07:50 PM (uAvJJ)
990
>>Incorrect. Non enforcement does happen... within the government itself. Where is does happen is with employers. The government, as usual, does not hold itself to the same laws it prosecutes individuals for.
Not incorrect at all. There is a distinct legal difference between hiring an employee and hiring an independent contractor. Besides, you just added a number of things to your case that you didn't lay out to begin with. Stick with your initial case.
And if you think the feds are going to haul you off and impound your belongings because you hired a kid to cut your lawn one time you are living in the same land of horror the Jeff is. I prefer it here in the real world.
Not incorrect at all. There is a distinct legal difference between hiring an employee and hiring an independent contractor. Besides, you just added a number of things to your case that you didn't lay out to begin with. Stick with your initial case.
And if you think the feds are going to haul you off and impound your belongings because you hired a kid to cut your lawn one time you are living in the same land of horror the Jeff is. I prefer it here in the real world.
Posted by: JackStraw at August 12, 2016 07:50 PM (/tuJf)
991
I'd rather argue about where Lot should have sold his wife to maximize his profits.
Posted by: garrett
Morton's. Obviously.
Posted by: garrett
Morton's. Obviously.
Posted by: pep at August 12, 2016 07:50 PM (LAe3v)
992
We just watched the WORST movie.
Cell. Based on the (I thought) crappy Stephen King book.
Don't waste your time.
Cell. Based on the (I thought) crappy Stephen King book.
Don't waste your time.
Posted by: DangerGirl and her 1.21 gigawatt Sanity Prod at August 12, 2016 07:50 PM (+eR2D)
993
And if you think the feds are going to haul you off and impound your belongings because you hired a kid to cut your lawn one time you are living in the same land of horror the Jeff is. I prefer it here in the real world.
-----------
So the Nanny tax is enforced or not?
-----------
So the Nanny tax is enforced or not?
Posted by: SH at August 12, 2016 07:51 PM (gmeXX)
994
"The I-9 does not require a social security number (indeed, requiring a potential employee to produce a social security card for I-9 purposes is a substantive violation and could result in significant fines). By contrast, E-Verify requires a social security number.
...
The I-9 does not require a photo on identity documents, whereas E-Verify does.
Lastly, the I-9 must be used to re-verify expired employment authorization, whereas E-Verify forbids doing so.
Posted by: Maritime at August 12, 2016 07:32 PM (u2zpL)
I just filled out an I9 a couple of months ago and this didn't seem correct to me. So I just went to .gov to verify. Yes, the I9 requires a SSN and a photo ID.
...
The I-9 does not require a photo on identity documents, whereas E-Verify does.
Lastly, the I-9 must be used to re-verify expired employment authorization, whereas E-Verify forbids doing so.
Posted by: Maritime at August 12, 2016 07:32 PM (u2zpL)
I just filled out an I9 a couple of months ago and this didn't seem correct to me. So I just went to .gov to verify. Yes, the I9 requires a SSN and a photo ID.
Posted by: Emmett Milbarge at August 12, 2016 07:51 PM (nFdGS)
Posted by: Max Power at August 12, 2016 07:51 PM (q177U)
996
991 I'd rather argue about where Lot should have sold his wife to maximize his profits.
Posted by: garrett
Morton's. Obviously.
Posted by: pep at August 12, 2016 07:50 PM (LAe3v)
I'd assume she's Kosher right.
Posted by: garrett
Morton's. Obviously.
Posted by: pep at August 12, 2016 07:50 PM (LAe3v)
I'd assume she's Kosher right.
Posted by: buzzion at August 12, 2016 07:51 PM (bMG0w)
Posted by: Phone of kari at August 12, 2016 07:52 PM (wvBgH)
Posted by: naturalfake at August 12, 2016 07:52 PM (HGtd0)
999
Hope Solo's got nothing on me. *sigh*
Posted by: The Chicken at August 12, 2016 07:52 PM (0mRoj)
1000
O/T but how's Trump gonna react to three straight months of getting schlonged in the polls, not a hope for even a single swing state, and then an historic shellacking in November?
He could just quit, couldn't he? Isn't he signaling this, now? Where does that leave the Trumpkins?
He could just quit, couldn't he? Isn't he signaling this, now? Where does that leave the Trumpkins?
Posted by: the littl shyning man at August 12, 2016 07:52 PM (wEapr)
1001
995
Just solve one problem at a time.
Enforce. The f***ing. Border.
Posted by: Max Power
Agreed.
Just solve one problem at a time.
Enforce. The f***ing. Border.
Posted by: Max Power
Agreed.
Posted by: pep at August 12, 2016 07:52 PM (LAe3v)
1002
Posted by: Old Blue at August 12, 2016 07:44 PM (9iR5/)
Mike Rowe nails this better than anyone. It's not even that trades don't pay well. A lot of construction workers and tons of welders, plumbers, etc. make more than most attorneys and some doctors.
The issue is that an increasing majority of special snowflakes have determined that they are far too special to do that kind do work. Why should they when they can demand forgiveness on their $100k student loan debt for their Wimmenz Studies doctorate and pump lattes part time at Starbucks, leaving them plenty of time to demand a "living wage", benefits, child care, etc. from their part time job?
Meanwhile, Paco and Jose work construction, pay their bills, feed their families, and live reasonably well with no credit, no debt, across the street from Mr. Snowflake and his 50 roommates.
Mike Rowe nails this better than anyone. It's not even that trades don't pay well. A lot of construction workers and tons of welders, plumbers, etc. make more than most attorneys and some doctors.
The issue is that an increasing majority of special snowflakes have determined that they are far too special to do that kind do work. Why should they when they can demand forgiveness on their $100k student loan debt for their Wimmenz Studies doctorate and pump lattes part time at Starbucks, leaving them plenty of time to demand a "living wage", benefits, child care, etc. from their part time job?
Meanwhile, Paco and Jose work construction, pay their bills, feed their families, and live reasonably well with no credit, no debt, across the street from Mr. Snowflake and his 50 roommates.
Posted by: Damiano at August 12, 2016 07:52 PM (71OEY)
1003
Just solve one problem at a time.
Enforce. The fucking. Border.
------------
There are so many things we can be doing without potentially infringing on our liberties are imposing additional burdens on private employers. I would start (and end) there.
Enforce. The fucking. Border.
------------
There are so many things we can be doing without potentially infringing on our liberties are imposing additional burdens on private employers. I would start (and end) there.
Posted by: SH at August 12, 2016 07:52 PM (gmeXX)
1004
I wonder if the salt Lot's wife was turned into was Kosher or not.
Posted by: publius (not Breitbart publius) at August 12, 2016 07:52 PM (DW+jj)
1005
Tellarites do not argue for reasons. They simply argue.
Posted by: Sarek at August 12, 2016 07:53 PM (+wjl1)
1006
Hope Solo called the Swedes cowards. Because they played too defensive a style, apparently.
Cowards get to keep playing though. She's free to go home and take more pictures of her 1940s style catcher's mitt.
Cowards get to keep playing though. She's free to go home and take more pictures of her 1940s style catcher's mitt.
Posted by: BurtTC at August 12, 2016 07:53 PM (Pz4pT)
1007
grammie, how is married life treating you?
Posted by: DangerGirl and her 1.21 gigawatt Sanity Prod at August 12, 2016 07:48 PM (+eR2D)
=========================================
Meh. There's cooking involved. This does not please me. On the other hand, he said I can get a cleaning lady. That does please me. However, apparently he is a TV watcher. I have moved the TV to the basement, along with a comfy chair. This pleases me. Sometimes he forgets he's married and stays at the church really late. This also pleases me.
Posted by: DangerGirl and her 1.21 gigawatt Sanity Prod at August 12, 2016 07:48 PM (+eR2D)
=========================================
Meh. There's cooking involved. This does not please me. On the other hand, he said I can get a cleaning lady. That does please me. However, apparently he is a TV watcher. I have moved the TV to the basement, along with a comfy chair. This pleases me. Sometimes he forgets he's married and stays at the church really late. This also pleases me.
Posted by: grammie winger at August 12, 2016 07:53 PM (dFi94)
Posted by: pep at August 12, 2016 07:53 PM (LAe3v)
1009
You get that we do not all agree with your hyperbolic statement and are willing to give up our liberties just to make ourselves feel better that we are doing something about a problem.Posted by: SH at August 12, 2016 07:44 PM (gmeXX)
Then make sure you're on-board with Sanctuary Cities, welfare for illegals, illegals voting, illegals driving without licenses, illegals going to your kids' public school. I hear 23 year old Paco with the tats and the gun is real real interested in your 14 year old daughter.
I show my ID all the time. Having a cop glance at it doesn't suddenly "remove my liberty." In fact, if a cop asked me for it and I launched into a historical discussion about the Supreme Court cases and Constitutional amendments he wouldn't NEED to see my ID.
Then make sure you're on-board with Sanctuary Cities, welfare for illegals, illegals voting, illegals driving without licenses, illegals going to your kids' public school. I hear 23 year old Paco with the tats and the gun is real real interested in your 14 year old daughter.
I show my ID all the time. Having a cop glance at it doesn't suddenly "remove my liberty." In fact, if a cop asked me for it and I launched into a historical discussion about the Supreme Court cases and Constitutional amendments he wouldn't NEED to see my ID.
Posted by: dagny at August 12, 2016 07:53 PM (eSQgj)
1010
Oh and chemjeff, I need to distract you for a minute.
So, I went back and looked at last night's thread. The comments after I went to bed.
I didn't know you were going to braise the chops. If I knew that, I would have never recommended the oven. You should have gone straight from browning in the fry pan into the braise in chicken broth.
Also, I know you said you were using boneless chops, which IMO may not be the best for a braise. They are very lean and have a tendency to dry out quickly.
Let's talk about these chops. I can help you. Tell me what kind they were, etc and I can make some recommendations for next time.
So, I went back and looked at last night's thread. The comments after I went to bed.
I didn't know you were going to braise the chops. If I knew that, I would have never recommended the oven. You should have gone straight from browning in the fry pan into the braise in chicken broth.
Also, I know you said you were using boneless chops, which IMO may not be the best for a braise. They are very lean and have a tendency to dry out quickly.
Let's talk about these chops. I can help you. Tell me what kind they were, etc and I can make some recommendations for next time.
Posted by: DangerGirl and her 1.21 gigawatt Sanity Prod at August 12, 2016 07:54 PM (+eR2D)
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Now With More Je Ne Sais Quoi! at August 12, 2016 07:54 PM (Nwg0u)
1012
Then make sure you're on-board with Sanctuary Cities, welfare for illegals, illegals voting, illegals driving without licenses, illegals going to your kids' public school.
------------
You're right, the only way to prevent those things is to give cops the power to demand IDs at any time for no reason at all.
------------
You're right, the only way to prevent those things is to give cops the power to demand IDs at any time for no reason at all.
Posted by: SH at August 12, 2016 07:55 PM (gmeXX)
1013
I'm pretty sure the neocons and globalists are eager to entangle us in foreign wars not only to act as armed security for their worldwide financial interests, but to kill off as many flyover country males as possible.
Russia isn't sending their people to shoot up nightclubs, fly airliners into skyscrapers, or set off crude bombs in crowds, but I hear daily from our elite how they're the biggest danger to America and Americans and young angry muslim males are a massive benefit to America, our economy, and most laughably our security.
Russia is a threat to the power and financial interests of the Masters of the Universe at Davos, but I don't lose any sleep worrying about their problems any more than they worry about Ali Snackbar machine gunning a shopping center.
Russia isn't sending their people to shoot up nightclubs, fly airliners into skyscrapers, or set off crude bombs in crowds, but I hear daily from our elite how they're the biggest danger to America and Americans and young angry muslim males are a massive benefit to America, our economy, and most laughably our security.
Russia is a threat to the power and financial interests of the Masters of the Universe at Davos, but I don't lose any sleep worrying about their problems any more than they worry about Ali Snackbar machine gunning a shopping center.
Posted by: kbdabear at August 12, 2016 07:55 PM (GrXXa)
1014
Semantics?! In a Friday evening thread? With chemjeff?
Is this 2015?!
Posted by: Phone of kari at August 12, 2016 07:52 PM (wvBgH)
Could be worse. Could be a thread with Jeffb quoting Depeche Mode lyrics.
Is this 2015?!
Posted by: Phone of kari at August 12, 2016 07:52 PM (wvBgH)
Could be worse. Could be a thread with Jeffb quoting Depeche Mode lyrics.
Posted by: BurtTC at August 12, 2016 07:55 PM (Pz4pT)
1015
994 "The I-9 does not require a social security number (indeed, requiring a potential employee to produce a social security card for I-9 purposes is a substantive violation and could result in significant fines). By contrast, E-Verify requires a social security number.
...
The I-9 does not require a photo on identity documents, whereas E-Verify does.
Lastly, the I-9 must be used to re-verify expired employment authorization, whereas E-Verify forbids doing so.
Posted by: Maritime at August 12, 2016 07:32 PM (u2zpL)
I just filled out an I9 a couple of months ago and this didn't seem correct to me. So I just went to .gov to verify. Yes, the I9 requires a SSN and a photo ID.
Posted by: Emmett Milbarge at August 12, 2016 07:51 PM (nFdGS)
++++
It does require an ss#, but not an ss card. That is, the new hire has to fill in his ss# up on the top part where he fills in his name. But, the employer does not have to see the ss card if the new hire does not use it for the section C document.
...
The I-9 does not require a photo on identity documents, whereas E-Verify does.
Lastly, the I-9 must be used to re-verify expired employment authorization, whereas E-Verify forbids doing so.
Posted by: Maritime at August 12, 2016 07:32 PM (u2zpL)
I just filled out an I9 a couple of months ago and this didn't seem correct to me. So I just went to .gov to verify. Yes, the I9 requires a SSN and a photo ID.
Posted by: Emmett Milbarge at August 12, 2016 07:51 PM (nFdGS)
++++
It does require an ss#, but not an ss card. That is, the new hire has to fill in his ss# up on the top part where he fills in his name. But, the employer does not have to see the ss card if the new hire does not use it for the section C document.
Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at August 12, 2016 07:55 PM (R+30W)
Posted by: ThunderB at August 12, 2016 07:55 PM (79USN)
1017
>>So the Nanny tax is enforced or not?
Are you serious? He laid out a specific example, he hired a kid one time, once, not an ongoing nanny, to cut his lawn. He didn't specify who's lawnmower was used, he didn't specify anything about supervising (what kind of moron would supervise a guy cutting his lawn that he hired so that he would have more free time?), just that he hired a kid to cut his lawn. Once.
Some of Jeff's arguing technique is wearing off on some of you.
Are you serious? He laid out a specific example, he hired a kid one time, once, not an ongoing nanny, to cut his lawn. He didn't specify who's lawnmower was used, he didn't specify anything about supervising (what kind of moron would supervise a guy cutting his lawn that he hired so that he would have more free time?), just that he hired a kid to cut his lawn. Once.
Some of Jeff's arguing technique is wearing off on some of you.
Posted by: JackStraw at August 12, 2016 07:55 PM (/tuJf)
1018
I just filled out an I9 a couple of months ago
and this didn't seem correct to me. So I just went to .gov to verify.
Yes, the I9 requires a SSN and a photo ID.
Posted by: Emmett Milbarge
Nope. There's a Document List A and a List B. You need to provide one item from each list, and a photo ID is one option on one list.
Plus obviously you won't need an SNN if you have a valid work permit.
I just filled out an I9 a couple of months ago
and this didn't seem correct to me. So I just went to .gov to verify.
Yes, the I9 requires a SSN and a photo ID.
Posted by: Emmett Milbarge
Nope. There's a Document List A and a List B. You need to provide one item from each list, and a photo ID is one option on one list.
Plus obviously you won't need an SNN if you have a valid work permit.
Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at August 12, 2016 07:56 PM (kdS6q)
1019
Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at August 12, 2016 07:49 PM (R+30W)
We had an apparent illegal working when I moved to the new job in 2001. Several years we received a form letter stating that "Juan" was working under a redundant(?) SSN.
In the second paragraph the letter stated, this condition could not affect his employment.
Powerfully effective, our Federal Government.
We had an apparent illegal working when I moved to the new job in 2001. Several years we received a form letter stating that "Juan" was working under a redundant(?) SSN.
In the second paragraph the letter stated, this condition could not affect his employment.
Powerfully effective, our Federal Government.
Posted by: Golfman at August 12, 2016 07:56 PM (9HX7k)
1020
1011 Just solve one problem at a time.
Enforce. The f***ing. Border.
-
Then the oral sex.
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Now With More Je Ne Sais Quoi! at August 12, 2016 07:54 PM (Nwg0u)
Naughty, bad, horrible Zoot!
Enforce. The f***ing. Border.
-
Then the oral sex.
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Now With More Je Ne Sais Quoi! at August 12, 2016 07:54 PM (Nwg0u)
Naughty, bad, horrible Zoot!
Posted by: Insomniac at August 12, 2016 07:56 PM (0mRoj)
1021
I show my ID all the time. Having a cop glance at it
doesn't suddenly "remove my liberty." In fact, if a cop asked me for it
and I launched into a historical discussion about the Supreme Court
cases and Constitutional amendments he wouldn't NEED to see my ID.
Posted by: dagny
Gotta disagree. It angers the hell out of me when I pass through a sobriety checkpoint. Who the hell are you to demand that I identify myself?
OTOH, an intelligent definition and use of probable cause (known to the left as profiling) would solve that problem.
doesn't suddenly "remove my liberty." In fact, if a cop asked me for it
and I launched into a historical discussion about the Supreme Court
cases and Constitutional amendments he wouldn't NEED to see my ID.
Posted by: dagny
Gotta disagree. It angers the hell out of me when I pass through a sobriety checkpoint. Who the hell are you to demand that I identify myself?
OTOH, an intelligent definition and use of probable cause (known to the left as profiling) would solve that problem.
Posted by: pep at August 12, 2016 07:56 PM (LAe3v)
1022
Meh. There's cooking involved. This does not please
me. On the other hand, he said I can get a cleaning lady. That does
please me. However, apparently he is a TV watcher. I have moved the TV
to the basement, along with a comfy chair. This pleases me. Sometimes he
forgets he's married and stays at the church really late. This also
pleases me.
Posted by: grammie winger at August 12, 2016 07:53 PM (dFi94)
So, ok then. Glad to hear it!
me. On the other hand, he said I can get a cleaning lady. That does
please me. However, apparently he is a TV watcher. I have moved the TV
to the basement, along with a comfy chair. This pleases me. Sometimes he
forgets he's married and stays at the church really late. This also
pleases me.
Posted by: grammie winger at August 12, 2016 07:53 PM (dFi94)
So, ok then. Glad to hear it!
Posted by: DangerGirl and her 1.21 gigawatt Sanity Prod at August 12, 2016 07:56 PM (+eR2D)
1023
You're right, the only way to prevent those things is to give cops the power to demand IDs at any time for no reason at all.
Posted by: SH at August 12, 2016 07:55 PM (gmeXX)
Geee.
887
It is also a huge red herring to keep insisting that cops are going
to start lining everyone up and demanding papers like some Soviet drone.
No one is arguing this position.
Posted by: chemjeff at August 12, 2016 07:19 PM (uAvJJ)
Oops.
Posted by: SH at August 12, 2016 07:55 PM (gmeXX)
Geee.
887
It is also a huge red herring to keep insisting that cops are going
to start lining everyone up and demanding papers like some Soviet drone.
No one is arguing this position.
Posted by: chemjeff at August 12, 2016 07:19 PM (uAvJJ)
Oops.
Posted by: buzzion at August 12, 2016 07:56 PM (bMG0w)
1024
Semantics?! In a Friday evening thread? With chemjeff?
Is this 2015?!
-
I knew it. You're anti-semantic.
Is this 2015?!
-
I knew it. You're anti-semantic.
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Now With More Je Ne Sais Quoi! at August 12, 2016 07:57 PM (Nwg0u)
1025
SH
You in Texas?
Posted by: ThunderB at August 12, 2016 07:55 PM (79USN)
------------
North Houston - you?
You in Texas?
Posted by: ThunderB at August 12, 2016 07:55 PM (79USN)
------------
North Houston - you?
Posted by: SH at August 12, 2016 07:57 PM (gmeXX)
1026
And Fun Fact
If HR uses the online I9 eVerify, you need a photoID, but not for paper I9 verification.
And Fun Fact
If HR uses the online I9 eVerify, you need a photoID, but not for paper I9 verification.
Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at August 12, 2016 07:58 PM (kdS6q)
1027
>>> Not incorrect at all. There is a distinct legal difference between hiring an employee and hiring an independent contractor. Besides, you just added a number of things to your case that you didn't lay out to begin with. Stick with your initial case.
....
I haven't changed a thing. Go back and read my posts.
As to the legal differences, yup. There are. Exactly what I specified. If you control the schedule of someone working for you, provide equipment or resources for them to do their job, and/ or can exert control over their quantity, quality or method of their work... they are an employee and not a contractor. Further, if the work is recurring (Paco, come twice a week on Tuesday and Friday until I tell you different), they likely qualify as an employee.
You could actually go read the legal requirements... or you could continue to just say everyone is wrong and call people names. Your choice.
....
I haven't changed a thing. Go back and read my posts.
As to the legal differences, yup. There are. Exactly what I specified. If you control the schedule of someone working for you, provide equipment or resources for them to do their job, and/ or can exert control over their quantity, quality or method of their work... they are an employee and not a contractor. Further, if the work is recurring (Paco, come twice a week on Tuesday and Friday until I tell you different), they likely qualify as an employee.
You could actually go read the legal requirements... or you could continue to just say everyone is wrong and call people names. Your choice.
Posted by: Damiano at August 12, 2016 07:58 PM (71OEY)
1028
>>Posted by: chemjeff at August 12, 2016 07:50 PM (uAvJJ)
That's a lot of 'ifs' there, professor.
>>anti-loitering laws are only legal if the loitering behavior is associated with some other crime, such as prostitution, or with "generally disruptive behavior"
Public Property Loitering.
And "Generally Disruptive Behavior" is exactly what is going on in the Home Depot Parking Lot.
Along with a host of other crimes being purpetrated by Criminals known colloquially as 'Dreamers' and such.
That's a lot of 'ifs' there, professor.
>>anti-loitering laws are only legal if the loitering behavior is associated with some other crime, such as prostitution, or with "generally disruptive behavior"
Public Property Loitering.
And "Generally Disruptive Behavior" is exactly what is going on in the Home Depot Parking Lot.
Along with a host of other crimes being purpetrated by Criminals known colloquially as 'Dreamers' and such.
Posted by: garrett at August 12, 2016 07:59 PM (c1srJ)
1029
Let's have an argument over where Cain got his wife while we're at it.
------
Found her in a tree.
I wrote a book about it.
------
Found her in a tree.
I wrote a book about it.
Posted by: Roark Bradford at August 12, 2016 07:59 PM (mxCgt)
1030
South Houston. I saw some dreamers in a fist fight under a bridge at 10:30 am today. You really think we aren't being over run?
Posted by: ThunderB at August 12, 2016 08:00 PM (MjS40)
1031
Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at August 12, 2016 07:56 PM (kdS6q)
Nope. Either ONE list A or two from list B and C.
Nope. Either ONE list A or two from list B and C.
Posted by: Golfman at August 12, 2016 08:00 PM (9HX7k)
Posted by: garrett at August 12, 2016 08:00 PM (c1srJ)
1033
or you could continue to just say everyone is wrong and call people names. Your choice.
If we did that, the comments would be shorter than "The Economic Wisdom of Barack Obama".
If we did that, the comments would be shorter than "The Economic Wisdom of Barack Obama".
Posted by: pep at August 12, 2016 08:00 PM (LAe3v)
1034
1019 Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at August 12, 2016 07:49 PM (R+30W)
We had an apparent illegal working when I moved to the new job in 2001. Several years we received a form letter stating that "Juan" was working under a redundant(?) SSN.
In the second paragraph the letter stated, this condition could not affect his employment.
Powerfully effective, our Federal Government.
Posted by: Golfman at August 12, 2016 07:56 PM (9HX7k)
++++
It's almost as if the only reason they sent the letter was to infuriate you.
We had an apparent illegal working when I moved to the new job in 2001. Several years we received a form letter stating that "Juan" was working under a redundant(?) SSN.
In the second paragraph the letter stated, this condition could not affect his employment.
Powerfully effective, our Federal Government.
Posted by: Golfman at August 12, 2016 07:56 PM (9HX7k)
++++
It's almost as if the only reason they sent the letter was to infuriate you.
Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at August 12, 2016 08:00 PM (R+30W)
1035
And it is raining like a MFer now. My herbs are grateful.
Posted by: DangerGirl and her 1.21 gigawatt Sanity Prod at August 12, 2016 08:01 PM (+eR2D)
1036
It angers the hell out of me when I pass through a sobriety checkpoint.
------
You just need the right kind of ID.
------
You just need the right kind of ID.
Posted by: Amy Lynn at August 12, 2016 08:01 PM (mxCgt)
1037
South Houston. I saw some dreamers in a fist fight under a bridge at 10:30 am today. You really think we aren't being over run?
-------------
I think we have a big immigration problem that may or may not be completely solvable. But I do not believe we are being invaded. And there are something that I am not willing to give up or require in an effort to solve the problem. Not yet anyway.
-------------
I think we have a big immigration problem that may or may not be completely solvable. But I do not believe we are being invaded. And there are something that I am not willing to give up or require in an effort to solve the problem. Not yet anyway.
Posted by: SH at August 12, 2016 08:02 PM (gmeXX)
1038
>>I haven't changed a thing. Go back and read my posts.
No. I read them the first time.
There was no mention of schedules or who was providing a lawnmower. You added that after. There was just you hiring a kid named Paco who offered to cut your grass.
>>You could actually go read the legal requirements... or you could continue to just say everyone is wrong and call people names. Your choice.
Are you under the impression that you are the only person who has ever hired someone? If so, you're wrong.
No. I read them the first time.
There was no mention of schedules or who was providing a lawnmower. You added that after. There was just you hiring a kid named Paco who offered to cut your grass.
>>You could actually go read the legal requirements... or you could continue to just say everyone is wrong and call people names. Your choice.
Are you under the impression that you are the only person who has ever hired someone? If so, you're wrong.
Posted by: JackStraw at August 12, 2016 08:02 PM (/tuJf)
1039
Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at August 12, 2016 07:58 PM (kdS6q)
Perhaps. But for every new hire I send a copy of either the doc from list A or both from lists B and C to the main office.
Perhaps. But for every new hire I send a copy of either the doc from list A or both from lists B and C to the main office.
Posted by: Golfman at August 12, 2016 08:02 PM (9HX7k)
1040
1032 >>Could be worse. Could be a thread with Jeffb quoting Depeche Mode lyrics.
Enjoy the Silence.
Posted by: garrett at August 12, 2016 08:00 PM (c1srJ)
Pick up the receiver, I'll make you a believer.
Enjoy the Silence.
Posted by: garrett at August 12, 2016 08:00 PM (c1srJ)
Pick up the receiver, I'll make you a believer.
Posted by: Insomniac at August 12, 2016 08:02 PM (0mRoj)
1041
Oops.
Posted by: buzzion at August 12, 2016 07:56 PM (bMG0w)
I interpret SH's statement as sarcasm. But even if SH was proposing that as a serious argument, then fine - there is one person making that argument. I accept in good faith that *you* are *not* making that argument.
HOWEVER, those like dagny seem unconcerned about the potential long-term consequences of giving the police the power to ask for ID of people *without* probable cause of committing some other crime. Where do you fall on this issue?
Oops.
Posted by: buzzion at August 12, 2016 07:56 PM (bMG0w)
I interpret SH's statement as sarcasm. But even if SH was proposing that as a serious argument, then fine - there is one person making that argument. I accept in good faith that *you* are *not* making that argument.
HOWEVER, those like dagny seem unconcerned about the potential long-term consequences of giving the police the power to ask for ID of people *without* probable cause of committing some other crime. Where do you fall on this issue?
Posted by: chemjeff at August 12, 2016 08:03 PM (uAvJJ)
1042
Nope. There's a Document List A and a List B. You need to provide one item from each list, and a photo ID is one option on one list.
Plus obviously you won't need an SNN if you have a valid work permit.
Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at August 12, 2016 07:56 PM
Slight correction: Doc Lists A, B, and C.
B is for identity. Drivers license, etc. You are who you say you are. C is right to work; residency, work permit, SSN, etc.
List A is short and includes a U.S. Passport, which establishes identity and eligibility with one document, so you don't need anything from lists B or C.
Your greater point still stands, regardless.
Plus obviously you won't need an SNN if you have a valid work permit.
Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at August 12, 2016 07:56 PM
Slight correction: Doc Lists A, B, and C.
B is for identity. Drivers license, etc. You are who you say you are. C is right to work; residency, work permit, SSN, etc.
List A is short and includes a U.S. Passport, which establishes identity and eligibility with one document, so you don't need anything from lists B or C.
Your greater point still stands, regardless.
Posted by: Damiano at August 12, 2016 08:03 PM (71OEY)
1043
Great post, Ace. Maybe there's hope yet, if enough people see the truth.
My question is, will we right the ship of state without a real revolution?
My question is, will we right the ship of state without a real revolution?
Posted by: PJ at August 12, 2016 08:03 PM (cHuNI)
1044
And there are something that I am not willing to give up or require in an effort to solve the problem.
--------
And not just because they may be an infrigement on my liberty, but also because I think they would be ineffective, or they may be expanded into other areas, or they are simply bandaids without solving the real problem.
--------
And not just because they may be an infrigement on my liberty, but also because I think they would be ineffective, or they may be expanded into other areas, or they are simply bandaids without solving the real problem.
Posted by: SH at August 12, 2016 08:04 PM (gmeXX)
1045
Nope. There's a Document List A and a List B. You need to provide one item from each list, and a photo ID is one option on one list.
Plus obviously you won't need an SNN if you have a valid work permit.
Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at August 12, 2016 07:56 PM (kdS6q)
No. You can choose the A list or the B and C list. A list are documents that are good enough to establish both your identity and authorization to work (like a US passport). Or you can use 1 from B and 1 from C. B list establishes your identity (they are either photo ID's or documents that required a photo ID for you to get) and C list establishes your authorization to work in US.
Plus obviously you won't need an SNN if you have a valid work permit.
Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at August 12, 2016 07:56 PM (kdS6q)
No. You can choose the A list or the B and C list. A list are documents that are good enough to establish both your identity and authorization to work (like a US passport). Or you can use 1 from B and 1 from C. B list establishes your identity (they are either photo ID's or documents that required a photo ID for you to get) and C list establishes your authorization to work in US.
Posted by: Emmett Milbarge at August 12, 2016 08:04 PM (nFdGS)
1046
And "Generally Disruptive Behavior" is exactly what is going on in the Home Depot Parking Lot.
How is it "generally disruptive behavior" to stand in the parking lot without bothering anyone?
How is it "generally disruptive behavior" to stand in the parking lot without bothering anyone?
Posted by: chemjeff at August 12, 2016 08:04 PM (uAvJJ)
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Now With More Je Ne Sais Quoi! at August 12, 2016 08:04 PM (Nwg0u)
1048
I probably shouldn't trigger chemjeff by mentioning I successfully cooked salmon for the first time tonight.
And it was good.
...oops. Too late.
And it was good.
...oops. Too late.
Posted by: Brother Cavil, That Guy at August 12, 2016 08:04 PM (vyqqu)
1049
Did I get the Battle Of Hastings comment?
Did I get the Battle Of Hastings comment?
Posted by: Mister Magoo's at August 12, 2016 08:05 PM (8PrS9)
1050
But I do not believe we are being invaded.
Read Victor Davis Hanson's posts about California sometime. You and chemjeff.
Then come back here with your exquisitely useless hand-wringing.
Read Victor Davis Hanson's posts about California sometime. You and chemjeff.
Then come back here with your exquisitely useless hand-wringing.
Posted by: fops and fainting couches at August 12, 2016 08:05 PM (TqzJR)
Posted by: ThunderB at August 12, 2016 08:05 PM (WtyaN)
1052
Left to play a game of chess and we broke 1000 and no new thread.
Posted by: Skip at August 12, 2016 08:05 PM (bksJQ)
1053
Is anything un-American anymore?
Globalists advocate for little to no sovereignty for America (ala WSJ "open borders"); radically lower wages for American middle/working citizens (TPP TiSA - the "secret" treaties that will make "highly mobile global labor" the primary "free-trade" commodity); essentially adopting the "Four Freedoms" of the European Union (google and tell me I'm wrong).
Globalists also advocate amnesty+reunification for 12M (15M really) citizens of foreign nations living her unlawfully that will result in adding 40M to 50M (12M + (3.2 reunifieds * 12M)) fiat citizens in well under 10 years. Thus manufacturing well over 30M votes for the Liberal-RINO globalists to cement them into power...
Can we call them un-American? I know it's not PC.. but it's true.
Globalists advocate for little to no sovereignty for America (ala WSJ "open borders"); radically lower wages for American middle/working citizens (TPP TiSA - the "secret" treaties that will make "highly mobile global labor" the primary "free-trade" commodity); essentially adopting the "Four Freedoms" of the European Union (google and tell me I'm wrong).
Globalists also advocate amnesty+reunification for 12M (15M really) citizens of foreign nations living her unlawfully that will result in adding 40M to 50M (12M + (3.2 reunifieds * 12M)) fiat citizens in well under 10 years. Thus manufacturing well over 30M votes for the Liberal-RINO globalists to cement them into power...
Can we call them un-American? I know it's not PC.. but it's true.
Posted by: DrDeano at August 12, 2016 08:05 PM (cP8Yw)
1054
HOWEVER, those like dagny seem unconcerned about the
potential long-term consequences of giving the police the power to ask
for ID of people *without* probable cause of committing some other
crime. Where do you fall on this issue?
Posted by: chemjeff
I actually enjoy the give and take here. People with answers don't need name-calling.
potential long-term consequences of giving the police the power to ask
for ID of people *without* probable cause of committing some other
crime. Where do you fall on this issue?
Posted by: chemjeff
I actually enjoy the give and take here. People with answers don't need name-calling.
Posted by: pep at August 12, 2016 08:06 PM (LAe3v)
1055
Nope. Either ONE list A or two from list B and C.
Posted by: Golfman
Yes. Meant B and C. A doc from List A proves both identity and authorization to work all in one:
http://tinyurl.com/jfcx88n
Nope. Either ONE list A or two from list B and C.
Posted by: Golfman
Yes. Meant B and C. A doc from List A proves both identity and authorization to work all in one:
http://tinyurl.com/jfcx88n
Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at August 12, 2016 08:06 PM (kdS6q)
1056
I interpret SH's statement as sarcasm. But even if SH was proposing that as a serious argument, then fine - there is one person making that argument.
-------------
I don't think we will become a soviet style state, but I do think the idea that you should be required to show your id at any time is crazy. Few people may be advocating for it, but I get the sense that many would not find that intrusive.
-------------
I don't think we will become a soviet style state, but I do think the idea that you should be required to show your id at any time is crazy. Few people may be advocating for it, but I get the sense that many would not find that intrusive.
Posted by: SH at August 12, 2016 08:06 PM (gmeXX)
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Now With More Je Ne Sais Quoi! at August 12, 2016 08:06 PM (Nwg0u)
1058
Public Property Loitering.
Could you provide a citation to a statute which you believe meets this criterion?
Could you provide a citation to a statute which you believe meets this criterion?
Posted by: chemjeff at August 12, 2016 08:06 PM (uAvJJ)
1059
1010 I didn't know you were going to braise the chops. If I knew that, I would have never recommended the oven. You should have gone straight from browning in the fry pan into the braise in chicken broth.
Also, I know you said you were using boneless chops, which IMO may not be the best for a braise. They are very lean and have a tendency to dry out quickly.
Let's talk about these chops. I can help you. Tell me what kind they were, etc and I can make some recommendations for next time.
Posted by: DangerGirl and her 1.21 gigawatt Sanity Prod at August 12, 2016 07:54 PM (+eR2D)
I love a good immigration debate, but some of the metaphors are hard to figure out. "Browning in the fry pan" is an illegal desert border crossing, right?
Also, I know you said you were using boneless chops, which IMO may not be the best for a braise. They are very lean and have a tendency to dry out quickly.
Let's talk about these chops. I can help you. Tell me what kind they were, etc and I can make some recommendations for next time.
Posted by: DangerGirl and her 1.21 gigawatt Sanity Prod at August 12, 2016 07:54 PM (+eR2D)
I love a good immigration debate, but some of the metaphors are hard to figure out. "Browning in the fry pan" is an illegal desert border crossing, right?
Posted by: Splunge at August 12, 2016 08:06 PM (iMxBJ)
1060
I don't think e-verify being only voluntary is the big problem. Hell if Manuel Laborer has a fake SS# and his *employer* is paying FICA, UI, WC ins. etc etc then that is not a huge disadvantage to native borns.
But don't pretend to me that there are not companies that pay under the table and that that is not a huge disadvantage to honest Joe, trying to run a business and having payroll costs that are almost double what his employees take home if he follows all the rules. And it is a big drain on society of under the table Manuel also has an under the table marriage and his wife and kids are collecting welfare benefits and not being dinged on the benefits based on the money Manuel is earning.
The libertarian answer is to free the employer from all those extra costs so no one has an incentive to cheat but the commie MFM complex had shrieking hysterics at the mild notion of privatizing a small fraction of SS. There is no way we roll back making employers the tax collectors and get rid of all the mandated "safety net" programs for workers.
But don't pretend to me that there are not companies that pay under the table and that that is not a huge disadvantage to honest Joe, trying to run a business and having payroll costs that are almost double what his employees take home if he follows all the rules. And it is a big drain on society of under the table Manuel also has an under the table marriage and his wife and kids are collecting welfare benefits and not being dinged on the benefits based on the money Manuel is earning.
The libertarian answer is to free the employer from all those extra costs so no one has an incentive to cheat but the commie MFM complex had shrieking hysterics at the mild notion of privatizing a small fraction of SS. There is no way we roll back making employers the tax collectors and get rid of all the mandated "safety net" programs for workers.
Posted by: Palerider at August 12, 2016 08:06 PM (dkExz)
1061
And it is raining like a MFer now. My herbs are grateful.
Posted by: DangerGirl
Did'ja bury them up to their necks or just up to their pocket protectors?
Posted by: DangerGirl
Did'ja bury them up to their necks or just up to their pocket protectors?
Posted by: weft cut-loop at August 12, 2016 08:07 PM (9sySV)
1062
HOWEVER, those like dagny seem unconcerned about the potential long-term consequences of giving the police the power to ask for ID of people *without* probable cause of committing some other crime. Where do you fall on this issue?
Posted by: chemjeff at August 12, 2016 08:03 PM (uAvJJ)
Usually when then ask me to raise one foot infront of my body and count to 10.
Posted by: chemjeff at August 12, 2016 08:03 PM (uAvJJ)
Usually when then ask me to raise one foot infront of my body and count to 10.
Posted by: buzzion at August 12, 2016 08:07 PM (bMG0w)
1063
And we don't have free trade now, unless you think their slaves doing the work for nothing versus our fairly paid countrymen constitutes free, merit-based competition.
Posted by: PJ at August 12, 2016 08:08 PM (cHuNI)
1064
Read Victor Davis Hanson's posts about California sometime. You and chemjeff.
Then come back here with your exquisitely useless hand-wringing.
-----------
I read him quite often. He is a great writer. And his view may be different from mine - our environment does shape us. As much as people think Texas is becoming CA, we are quite different, so my view on this is going to be different from someone who has lived in CA.
Then come back here with your exquisitely useless hand-wringing.
-----------
I read him quite often. He is a great writer. And his view may be different from mine - our environment does shape us. As much as people think Texas is becoming CA, we are quite different, so my view on this is going to be different from someone who has lived in CA.
Posted by: SH at August 12, 2016 08:08 PM (gmeXX)
1065
Chem Jeff. You don't know what you are talking about. The guys I saw fighting were in a day laborer line, next to a pizza Hut. They fight. They steal. Seriously. Come down here
Posted by: ThunderB at August 12, 2016 08:08 PM (6RIdC)
1066
I actually enjoy the give and take here. People with answers don't need name-calling.
Posted by: pep at August 12, 2016 08:06 PM (LAe3v)
I have generally ignored the people who just call me names. Half the blog hates me and/or ignores me at this point, that's fine.
Posted by: pep at August 12, 2016 08:06 PM (LAe3v)
I have generally ignored the people who just call me names. Half the blog hates me and/or ignores me at this point, that's fine.
Posted by: chemjeff at August 12, 2016 08:08 PM (uAvJJ)
1067
How is it "generally disruptive behavior" to stand in the parking lot without bothering anyone?
Posted by: chemjeff
I suppose it could be that each and every person there knows to a metaphysical certainty that the people in that parking lot are breaking the law by a) being here, and b) working without a permit or paying taxes.
At some point, ignoring the problem simply insults the citizenry.
Posted by: chemjeff
I suppose it could be that each and every person there knows to a metaphysical certainty that the people in that parking lot are breaking the law by a) being here, and b) working without a permit or paying taxes.
At some point, ignoring the problem simply insults the citizenry.
Posted by: pep at August 12, 2016 08:08 PM (LAe3v)
1068
>>How is it "generally disruptive behavior" to stand in the parking lot without bothering anyone?
You have never been to a Home Depot Parking Lot filled with illegals, have you?
Harassment, littering, verbal and physical altercations, drug use, theft...the list is endless and the parking Lot is Private Property.
Also an egress for traffic that is being blocked by flocks of illegals trying to jump into the next truck.
Stay in your University World, Jeff.
Reality is not your friend.
You have never been to a Home Depot Parking Lot filled with illegals, have you?
Harassment, littering, verbal and physical altercations, drug use, theft...the list is endless and the parking Lot is Private Property.
Also an egress for traffic that is being blocked by flocks of illegals trying to jump into the next truck.
Stay in your University World, Jeff.
Reality is not your friend.
Posted by: garrett at August 12, 2016 08:09 PM (c1srJ)
1069
You're right, the only way to prevent those things is to give cops the power to demand IDs at any time for no reason at all.
Posted by: SH at August 12, 2016 07:55 PM (gmeXX)
That's what those things ARE, the not demanding of ID. That's the WHOLE point.
Posted by: SH at August 12, 2016 07:55 PM (gmeXX)
That's what those things ARE, the not demanding of ID. That's the WHOLE point.
Posted by: dagny at August 12, 2016 08:09 PM (eSQgj)
Posted by: ThunderB at August 12, 2016 08:10 PM (GtEmy)
1071
I do think the idea that you should be required to show your id at any time is crazy.
Is the idea that an American should lose his job to an illegal alien more or less crazy than showing an ID?
Is the idea that an American should lose his job to an illegal alien more or less crazy than showing an ID?
Posted by: wring your hands some more, buttercup at August 12, 2016 08:10 PM (TqzJR)
1072
I don't think e-verify being only voluntary is the big problem.
Posted by: Palerider
It's not completely voluntary. Some states have requirements for certain employers to use it.
I don't think e-verify being only voluntary is the big problem.
Posted by: Palerider
It's not completely voluntary. Some states have requirements for certain employers to use it.
Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at August 12, 2016 08:10 PM (kdS6q)
1073
Usually when then ask me to raise one foot infront of my body and count to 10.
Posted by: buzzion at August 12, 2016 08:07 PM (bMG0w)
Such as at a sobriety checkpoint on a public road?
Once again a public road is different than the examples that we are talking about here, because driving on them is a privilege not a right, and the probable cause that police need to stop you is pretty low. Too low, IMO, but that is a different discussion. When driving on a public road, regardless, you don't have the right to refuse to show ID, because driving on public roads is a privilege in the first place and you need a license.
The example that we were discussing did not involve driving on a public road. In these situations, no license is required.
Posted by: buzzion at August 12, 2016 08:07 PM (bMG0w)
Such as at a sobriety checkpoint on a public road?
Once again a public road is different than the examples that we are talking about here, because driving on them is a privilege not a right, and the probable cause that police need to stop you is pretty low. Too low, IMO, but that is a different discussion. When driving on a public road, regardless, you don't have the right to refuse to show ID, because driving on public roads is a privilege in the first place and you need a license.
The example that we were discussing did not involve driving on a public road. In these situations, no license is required.
Posted by: chemjeff at August 12, 2016 08:10 PM (uAvJJ)
1074
That's what those things ARE, the not demanding of ID. That's the WHOLE point.
----------
I will give my id to vote, when pulled over for doing something wrong, getting on an airplane, or when the bar asks for it (not that they do much). But i see no reason to simply hand over my id just because I am walking on a street or otherwise minding my own business. If that is where you are, then we are on the same page.
----------
I will give my id to vote, when pulled over for doing something wrong, getting on an airplane, or when the bar asks for it (not that they do much). But i see no reason to simply hand over my id just because I am walking on a street or otherwise minding my own business. If that is where you are, then we are on the same page.
Posted by: SH at August 12, 2016 08:11 PM (gmeXX)
Posted by: Skip at August 12, 2016 08:11 PM (bksJQ)
1076
Another fun fact about I9 forms. There is no requirement to maintain copies of the eligibility documents. Most companies do, as a matter of policy, but they're not legally required.
The employer signature portion basically says: "this person showed me the docs listed on A or B and C".
There are different arguments on why this is the case, leaving a giant barn door open.
Some people say it was intended to allow evil corporations a loophole to exploit people for evil profits and sport.
My thinking is, it's correct. I run a business and it's not document examination and verification. How the fuck am I responsible for fake GOVERNMENT documents? Isn't it enough that your pawning off immigration enforcement on me instead of doing anything to prevent, deport, or otherwise enforce immigration laws?
Now, I have seen a LOT of blatantly fake docs that I kicked back and didn't hire the person. Guess what? I can be sued for that. The reason? What qualifies me to determine that the SS card written in crayon with the smiley face in place of an eagle is real?
The employer signature portion basically says: "this person showed me the docs listed on A or B and C".
There are different arguments on why this is the case, leaving a giant barn door open.
Some people say it was intended to allow evil corporations a loophole to exploit people for evil profits and sport.
My thinking is, it's correct. I run a business and it's not document examination and verification. How the fuck am I responsible for fake GOVERNMENT documents? Isn't it enough that your pawning off immigration enforcement on me instead of doing anything to prevent, deport, or otherwise enforce immigration laws?
Now, I have seen a LOT of blatantly fake docs that I kicked back and didn't hire the person. Guess what? I can be sued for that. The reason? What qualifies me to determine that the SS card written in crayon with the smiley face in place of an eagle is real?
Posted by: Damiano at August 12, 2016 08:11 PM (71OEY)
1077
Is the idea that an American should lose his job to an illegal alien more or less crazy than showing an ID?
Posted by: wring your hands some more, buttercup at August 12, 2016 08:10 PM (TqzJR)
Here's the challenge: Can we kick out the illegals, so that they aren't stealing American jobs, without infringing on the liberties of citizens?
Posted by: wring your hands some more, buttercup at August 12, 2016 08:10 PM (TqzJR)
Here's the challenge: Can we kick out the illegals, so that they aren't stealing American jobs, without infringing on the liberties of citizens?
Posted by: chemjeff at August 12, 2016 08:11 PM (uAvJJ)
1078
ugh
Posted by: nckate at August 12, 2016 08:12 PM (968UG)
1079
>>Public Property Loitering.
Could you provide a citation to a statute which you believe meets this criterion?
What you were describing is Public Property Loitering.
What you are proffering as an example is Private Property Loitering.
Clown Nose : On / Off
Could you provide a citation to a statute which you believe meets this criterion?
What you were describing is Public Property Loitering.
What you are proffering as an example is Private Property Loitering.
Clown Nose : On / Off
Posted by: garrett at August 12, 2016 08:12 PM (c1srJ)
1080
My invitation still stands.
Any Moron is invited to ride with me for a day. I can show y'all some stuff that will blow you mind.
I've seen 4 I-9's in the last two weeks. I know what the lady at the main office says when the docs aren't in order.
I see an illegal with no drivers license every week who has 10 fucking kids. TEN chemjeff. And another on the way. What's his impact on the local state and federal taxpayer.
But when he gets pulled we can't ask him for PROOF OF CITIZENSHIP.
*types*
*deletes*
I want to stay around here.
Any Moron is invited to ride with me for a day. I can show y'all some stuff that will blow you mind.
I've seen 4 I-9's in the last two weeks. I know what the lady at the main office says when the docs aren't in order.
I see an illegal with no drivers license every week who has 10 fucking kids. TEN chemjeff. And another on the way. What's his impact on the local state and federal taxpayer.
But when he gets pulled we can't ask him for PROOF OF CITIZENSHIP.
*types*
*deletes*
I want to stay around here.
Posted by: Golfman at August 12, 2016 08:12 PM (9HX7k)
1081
Half the blog hates me and/or ignores me at this point, that's fine.
Posted by: chemjeff at August 12, 2016 08:08 PM (uAvJJ)
Nobody hates you, buttercup.
It's pity, because we've seen this movie before. We know how it ends.
Posted by: chemjeff at August 12, 2016 08:08 PM (uAvJJ)
Nobody hates you, buttercup.
It's pity, because we've seen this movie before. We know how it ends.
Posted by: BurtTC at August 12, 2016 08:12 PM (Pz4pT)
1082
Is the idea that an American should lose his job to an illegal alien more or less crazy than showing an ID?
----------
Not sure how one effects the other, but given the choice of keeping certain liberties v. John losing his job to Juan, I guess I'll choose my liberties.
----------
Not sure how one effects the other, but given the choice of keeping certain liberties v. John losing his job to Juan, I guess I'll choose my liberties.
Posted by: SH at August 12, 2016 08:12 PM (gmeXX)
1083
I read him quite often. He is a great writer. And his view may be different from mine - our environment does shape us. As much as people think Texas is becoming CA, we are quite different, so my view on this is going to be different from someone who has lived in CA.
Posted by: SH
Um, CA was once a red state. Reagan, Nixon. Yeah, those guys.
If you believe that magic dirt is going to stop the same lax attitude towards borders and political culture from crossing into TX, well, I have a Big River just looking for a buyer.
I read him quite often. He is a great writer. And his view may be different from mine - our environment does shape us. As much as people think Texas is becoming CA, we are quite different, so my view on this is going to be different from someone who has lived in CA.
Posted by: SH
Um, CA was once a red state. Reagan, Nixon. Yeah, those guys.
If you believe that magic dirt is going to stop the same lax attitude towards borders and political culture from crossing into TX, well, I have a Big River just looking for a buyer.
Posted by: weft cut-loop at August 12, 2016 08:13 PM (9sySV)
1084
Tedious bores do have such trouble identifying a joke and seeing it as a joke.
Posted by: buzzion at August 12, 2016 08:13 PM (bMG0w)
1085
Back in the early '80s, when I was an idiot, annoying teenager, a group of us were hanging around in a parking lot in town. It was right around dusk or so.
Here comes a cop, two of 'em in a cruiser. We had to show ID (some of us didn't have any, too young), but they made us identify ourselves. One of them wrote down all our names, and suggested he was going to call our parents.
After they shook us up pretty good (which was the whole point), they explained they could book us all for loitering, but since we didn't seem to be doing any real harm, they would let us go if we promised to be good little boys.
Google says there was some Supreme Court case in 1999 that clarified exactly what "loitering" had to be to be constitutional,ruling many statutes were too vague.
Here comes a cop, two of 'em in a cruiser. We had to show ID (some of us didn't have any, too young), but they made us identify ourselves. One of them wrote down all our names, and suggested he was going to call our parents.
After they shook us up pretty good (which was the whole point), they explained they could book us all for loitering, but since we didn't seem to be doing any real harm, they would let us go if we promised to be good little boys.
Google says there was some Supreme Court case in 1999 that clarified exactly what "loitering" had to be to be constitutional,ruling many statutes were too vague.
Posted by: publius (not Breitbart publius) at August 12, 2016 08:13 PM (DW+jj)
1086
"Browning in the fry pan" is an illegal desert border crossing, right?
Posted by: Splunge
No, that would be "dredge in flour".
Posted by: Splunge
No, that would be "dredge in flour".
Posted by: pep at August 12, 2016 08:13 PM (LAe3v)
1087
OK, I give up. I may or may not come back later when there is a new post, depending on how tired I am.
Be well.
Be well.
Posted by: DangerGirl and her 1.21 gigawatt Sanity Prod at August 12, 2016 08:13 PM (+eR2D)
1088
The libertarian trap, as I call it, is I think one of the main reasons that there hasn't been a successful or at past high profile third-party in this country since the Bull Moose Party. Everyone to the right of Bernie Sanders for some reason thinks that libertarianism is the most reasonable ideology to spawn its own political party. I'm not sure that I see a reason for this other than name recognition, because libertarianism, for some reason, attracts absolute relativists and-to-the-death semanticists like no other organization on planet Earth. Nobody does intellectual onamism like a chemjeff.
In the meantime, Donald Trump is putting the finishing moves on his hostile takeover of the Republican party, and building the third party the future, which libertarians by all rights should have done 40 years ago, but haven't because they're so goddamn smart they can't decide what it means to enforce the law.
Now get off your computer it's Friday night.
In the meantime, Donald Trump is putting the finishing moves on his hostile takeover of the Republican party, and building the third party the future, which libertarians by all rights should have done 40 years ago, but haven't because they're so goddamn smart they can't decide what it means to enforce the law.
Now get off your computer it's Friday night.
Posted by: Phone of kari at August 12, 2016 08:14 PM (sKo4G)
1089
1068 >>How is it "generally disruptive behavior" to stand in the parking lot without bothering anyone?
Wow, you don't get out much.
I can't go to Home Depot without a male escort and that's in the day time. Maybe that's the problem. You don't live where the invasion is in full swing.
Wow, you don't get out much.
I can't go to Home Depot without a male escort and that's in the day time. Maybe that's the problem. You don't live where the invasion is in full swing.
Posted by: dagny at August 12, 2016 08:14 PM (eSQgj)
1090
1065
Chem Jeff. You don't know what you are talking about. The guys I saw
fighting were in a day laborer line, next to a pizza Hut. They fight.
They steal. Seriously. Come down here
Posted by: ThunderB at August 12, 2016 08:08 PM (6RIdC)
Fighting and Stealing = already crimes. LEO can ask everyone for ID without constitutional ramifications, and kick out the illegals for not having proof of citizenship. I am totally okay with this position.
What I am not okay with, is if there are a bunch of people *not committing any crimes*, such as simply hanging out at Home Depot, and LEO starts demanding ID.
Chem Jeff. You don't know what you are talking about. The guys I saw
fighting were in a day laborer line, next to a pizza Hut. They fight.
They steal. Seriously. Come down here
Posted by: ThunderB at August 12, 2016 08:08 PM (6RIdC)
Fighting and Stealing = already crimes. LEO can ask everyone for ID without constitutional ramifications, and kick out the illegals for not having proof of citizenship. I am totally okay with this position.
What I am not okay with, is if there are a bunch of people *not committing any crimes*, such as simply hanging out at Home Depot, and LEO starts demanding ID.
Posted by: chemjeff at August 12, 2016 08:14 PM (uAvJJ)
1091
It's pity, because we've seen this movie before. We know how it ends.
Posted by: BurtTC at August 12, 2016 08:12 PM (Pz4pT)
Does it rhyme with bounce?
Posted by: BurtTC at August 12, 2016 08:12 PM (Pz4pT)
Does it rhyme with bounce?
Posted by: Emmett Milbarge at August 12, 2016 08:15 PM (nFdGS)
1092
Um, CA was once a red state. Reagan, Nixon. Yeah, those guys.
-----------
It was, I'm not sure it was illegal immigration that caused it to go blue. Could Texas turn blue - of course it could. Just as CA could turn red. Nothing lasts forever. I'm just not going to worry about it at this point until I start seeing evidence that it is turning blue.
-----------
It was, I'm not sure it was illegal immigration that caused it to go blue. Could Texas turn blue - of course it could. Just as CA could turn red. Nothing lasts forever. I'm just not going to worry about it at this point until I start seeing evidence that it is turning blue.
Posted by: SH at August 12, 2016 08:15 PM (gmeXX)
1093
1087
OK, I give up. I may or may not come back later when there is a new post, depending on how tired I am.
Be well.
Posted by: DangerGirl and her 1.21 gigawatt Sanity Prod at August 12, 2016 08:13 PM (+eR2D)
I'm sorry DangerGirl! Hopefully you come back. If you do we can chat more about cooking.
OK, I give up. I may or may not come back later when there is a new post, depending on how tired I am.
Be well.
Posted by: DangerGirl and her 1.21 gigawatt Sanity Prod at August 12, 2016 08:13 PM (+eR2D)
I'm sorry DangerGirl! Hopefully you come back. If you do we can chat more about cooking.
Posted by: chemjeff at August 12, 2016 08:15 PM (uAvJJ)
1094
>>Here's the challenge: Can we kick out the illegals, so that they aren't stealing American jobs, without [ ] infringing on the liberties of citizens?
Unduly is the word you forgot, there, cupcake.
The Law is only concerned if your rights are unduly infringed.
Being the one unknown Citizen amongst dozens of known illegals will not qualify.
Unduly is the word you forgot, there, cupcake.
The Law is only concerned if your rights are unduly infringed.
Being the one unknown Citizen amongst dozens of known illegals will not qualify.
Posted by: garrett at August 12, 2016 08:15 PM (c1srJ)
1095
being here illegally is a crime
Posted by: nckate at August 12, 2016 08:15 PM (968UG)
Posted by: Insomniac at August 12, 2016 08:16 PM (0mRoj)
1097
Posted by: publius (not Breitbart publius) at August 12, 2016 08:13 PM (DW+jj)
Ditto. I grew up in a mid-sized town. When I was a teen, we hung out in the parking lot of the local Burger King. Guess what? The cops came, they IDed us, same as you.
It's fucking called loitering and it can be against the law in many places.
Now I'm really going.
Ditto. I grew up in a mid-sized town. When I was a teen, we hung out in the parking lot of the local Burger King. Guess what? The cops came, they IDed us, same as you.
It's fucking called loitering and it can be against the law in many places.
Now I'm really going.
Posted by: DangerGirl and her 1.21 gigawatt Sanity Prod at August 12, 2016 08:16 PM (+eR2D)
1098
Posted by: SH at August 12, 2016 08:11 PM (gmeXX)
No one is advocating the US Gestapo yanking people off the sidewalk demanding their papers.
If you cross the law and are here illegally, your ass should be put on a bus.
No one is advocating the US Gestapo yanking people off the sidewalk demanding their papers.
If you cross the law and are here illegally, your ass should be put on a bus.
Posted by: Golfman at August 12, 2016 08:16 PM (9HX7k)
1099
In the meantime, Donald Trump is putting the finishing moves on his hostile takeover of the Republican party,
If, by "putting the finishing moves on his hostile takeover" you mean destroying it and salting the earth, all to make Hillary's victory inevitable, then yes.
(this thread just didn't have enough bile and conflict)
If, by "putting the finishing moves on his hostile takeover" you mean destroying it and salting the earth, all to make Hillary's victory inevitable, then yes.
(this thread just didn't have enough bile and conflict)
Posted by: pep at August 12, 2016 08:17 PM (LAe3v)
1100
Home Depot parking lot is private property dodo
Posted by: ThunderB
Mention that THE POLICE can stroll onto that private property, without a warrant!!!!, and write tickets for parking in red zones and handicapped spots.
Libertarian heads will explode!
Home Depot parking lot is private property dodo
Posted by: ThunderB
Mention that THE POLICE can stroll onto that private property, without a warrant!!!!, and write tickets for parking in red zones and handicapped spots.
Libertarian heads will explode!
Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at August 12, 2016 08:17 PM (kdS6q)
1101
If you cross the law and are here illegally, your ass should be put on a bus.
-----------
I have no problem with that.
-----------
I have no problem with that.
Posted by: SH at August 12, 2016 08:17 PM (gmeXX)
Posted by: Mortimer at August 12, 2016 08:17 PM (m3NrK)
1103
It was, I'm not sure it was illegal immigration that caused it to go blue.
Posted by: SH
No, you're right.
It was legal immigration from the East Coast that turned CA blue.
Nothing lasts forever. I'm just not going to worry about it at this point until I start seeing evidence that it is turning blue.
Ah, the strategic move of inserting head into the proverbial sand.
Very savvy.
Again, Big River property for sale. Free even.
Posted by: SH
No, you're right.
It was legal immigration from the East Coast that turned CA blue.
Nothing lasts forever. I'm just not going to worry about it at this point until I start seeing evidence that it is turning blue.
Ah, the strategic move of inserting head into the proverbial sand.
Very savvy.
Again, Big River property for sale. Free even.
Posted by: weft cut-loop at August 12, 2016 08:18 PM (9sySV)
1104
Jeebus.
So, doctor's office who called me two nights ago to tell me they had "concerns" about my labs, doesn't bother to call me back for two days.
Came in from dinner with husband tonight, and there's a message from 7:46 tonight, nurse saying, "Sorry to be late getting back to you, but I need to talk to you at least by Monday regarding your labs and high BP."
BP status: Highly elevated
So, doctor's office who called me two nights ago to tell me they had "concerns" about my labs, doesn't bother to call me back for two days.
Came in from dinner with husband tonight, and there's a message from 7:46 tonight, nurse saying, "Sorry to be late getting back to you, but I need to talk to you at least by Monday regarding your labs and high BP."
BP status: Highly elevated
Posted by: Jane D'oh at August 12, 2016 08:18 PM (1ZOkK)
1105
1100
Posted by: Jake at August 12, 2016 08:18 PM (A2czX)
1106
Unduly is the word you forgot, there, cupcake.
The Law is only concerned if your rights are unduly infringed.
--------------
So how many days on a waiting list is an unduly infringement of your 2nd A rights.
The Law is only concerned if your rights are unduly infringed.
--------------
So how many days on a waiting list is an unduly infringement of your 2nd A rights.
Posted by: SH at August 12, 2016 08:18 PM (gmeXX)
1107
Now get off your computer it's Friday night."
Unfortunately, the power's out, so no TV, I'm buzzed so no driving.
FML
Unfortunately, the power's out, so no TV, I'm buzzed so no driving.
FML
Posted by: IllTemperedCur at August 12, 2016 08:19 PM (tHAoL)
1108
A thousand years ago when law enforcement enforced all the laws this problem did not exist. ie. Illegals tried to "pass". They tried to pass otherwise they would be questioned, found out and then deported.
Enforcing all existing laws and no free stuff would eliminate 75% of the problems. If 75% of the problem were eliminated there would be no problem.
Enforcing all existing laws and no free stuff would eliminate 75% of the problems. If 75% of the problem were eliminated there would be no problem.
Posted by: gNewt....panhandlers never seem to not have their hands out ~ at August 12, 2016 08:19 PM (/8r1I)
1109
I guess we can't let a thing like reality Trump all these nifty hypotheticals.
And Chem Jeff just be honest. It has nothing to do with civil liberties for you. It just makes you feel bad. And that's the truth
And Chem Jeff just be honest. It has nothing to do with civil liberties for you. It just makes you feel bad. And that's the truth
Posted by: ThunderB at August 12, 2016 08:19 PM (GOXDF)
1110
Ah, the strategic move of inserting head into the proverbial sand.
------------
Yes, of all the things I should worry about in life, it is Texas turning blue, even though it has become redder and redder with each passing election for the past 25 years.
------------
Yes, of all the things I should worry about in life, it is Texas turning blue, even though it has become redder and redder with each passing election for the past 25 years.
Posted by: SH at August 12, 2016 08:19 PM (gmeXX)
1111
1066 I have generally ignored the people who just call me names. Half the blog hates me and/or ignores me at this point, that's fine.
Posted by: chemjeff at August 12, 2016 08:08 PM (uAvJJ)
I don't hate you. Sometimes I kind of like you. But also, sometimes it feels like you're playing some sort of game whose rules are known only to you, and it doesn't seem like a fun game to play, whatever it may be.
Posted by: chemjeff at August 12, 2016 08:08 PM (uAvJJ)
I don't hate you. Sometimes I kind of like you. But also, sometimes it feels like you're playing some sort of game whose rules are known only to you, and it doesn't seem like a fun game to play, whatever it may be.
Posted by: Splunge at August 12, 2016 08:20 PM (iMxBJ)
1112
Can we kick out the illegals, so that they aren't stealing American jobs, without infringing on the liberties of citizens?
***
Stealing american jobs. schools, health care, welfare, the vote, safety, roads, tuition, first responders, etc IS INFRINGING on the liberties of citizens.
***
Stealing american jobs. schools, health care, welfare, the vote, safety, roads, tuition, first responders, etc IS INFRINGING on the liberties of citizens.
Posted by: dagny at August 12, 2016 08:20 PM (eSQgj)
1113
It's pity, because we've seen this movie before. We know how it ends.
Posted by: BurtTC at August 12, 2016 08:12 PM (Pz4pT)
Oh don't worry, there are a couple of commenters who are actively trying to get me banned. Who knows, they might yet be successful.
It's pity, because we've seen this movie before. We know how it ends.
Posted by: BurtTC at August 12, 2016 08:12 PM (Pz4pT)
Oh don't worry, there are a couple of commenters who are actively trying to get me banned. Who knows, they might yet be successful.
Posted by: chemjeff at August 12, 2016 08:20 PM (uAvJJ)
1114
jane, do you not have an electronic chart online where your doctors puts all of your lab results? so you never need to call them on the phone for anything
Posted by: nckate at August 12, 2016 08:20 PM (968UG)
1115
What I am not okay with, is if there are a bunch of people *not
committing any crimes*, such as simply hanging out at Home Depot, and
LEO starts demanding ID.
In an intelligent world, we'd say if you can't speak English, there is probable cause to assume you're here illegally. If you're standing underneath a sign that says "No Loitering", we can assume you don't speak English.
committing any crimes*, such as simply hanging out at Home Depot, and
LEO starts demanding ID.
In an intelligent world, we'd say if you can't speak English, there is probable cause to assume you're here illegally. If you're standing underneath a sign that says "No Loitering", we can assume you don't speak English.
Posted by: pep at August 12, 2016 08:21 PM (LAe3v)
1116
>>> How is it "generally disruptive behavior" to stand in the parking lot without bothering anyone?
Posted by: chemjeff
....
Bad example.
Most parking lots are private property, same a your front lawn. If I show up and just hang out on your front lawn, you'll probably call the cops. They will ask me for ID to demonstrate if I have any reason to be there (perhaps I am your roomate and you locked me out because you didn't want me to see that you hand not paid the rent. My DL will show your address as my address).
Let's say it's a public parking lot at a closed grocery store at 3AM. I clearly don't live at the grocery store. There is no reason for me to be there. It is private property. If I trip in the parking lot, I can sue.
Perhaps I am just hanging out. Perhaps I am waiting for my buddy to show up with the crow bar. A cop should not allege a crime but, seeing behavior that may or may not be suspicious, it would be nice if - getting a call 2 hours later about the grocery store break in- he could get a hold of me to see if I saw anything or new anything about it.
It's a fine line. I don't want to be hassled for walking down a public street anymore than anyone else. Now, if I am walking down the street with a crowbar, no car around, and wearing a ski mask... yeah, go ahead and stop me to see if I'm headed to a Halloween party.
Posted by: chemjeff
....
Bad example.
Most parking lots are private property, same a your front lawn. If I show up and just hang out on your front lawn, you'll probably call the cops. They will ask me for ID to demonstrate if I have any reason to be there (perhaps I am your roomate and you locked me out because you didn't want me to see that you hand not paid the rent. My DL will show your address as my address).
Let's say it's a public parking lot at a closed grocery store at 3AM. I clearly don't live at the grocery store. There is no reason for me to be there. It is private property. If I trip in the parking lot, I can sue.
Perhaps I am just hanging out. Perhaps I am waiting for my buddy to show up with the crow bar. A cop should not allege a crime but, seeing behavior that may or may not be suspicious, it would be nice if - getting a call 2 hours later about the grocery store break in- he could get a hold of me to see if I saw anything or new anything about it.
It's a fine line. I don't want to be hassled for walking down a public street anymore than anyone else. Now, if I am walking down the street with a crowbar, no car around, and wearing a ski mask... yeah, go ahead and stop me to see if I'm headed to a Halloween party.
Posted by: Damiano at August 12, 2016 08:21 PM (71OEY)
1117
Great article Ace.
I think of it as modern feudalism. The international nobility have much more common interest with each other than with their respective national serfs or their decayed nation-states.
I think of it as modern feudalism. The international nobility have much more common interest with each other than with their respective national serfs or their decayed nation-states.
Posted by: San Franpsycho at August 12, 2016 08:21 PM (EZebt)
1118
Unfortunately, the power's out, so no TV, I'm buzzed so no driving.
FML
Posted by: IllTemperedCur at August 12, 2016 08:19 PM (tHAoL)
Could be worse. You could be Hope Solo, goat of the Olympics, sitting in her crappy little Brazilian hotel room without any neatsfoot oil.
FML
Posted by: IllTemperedCur at August 12, 2016 08:19 PM (tHAoL)
Could be worse. You could be Hope Solo, goat of the Olympics, sitting in her crappy little Brazilian hotel room without any neatsfoot oil.
Posted by: BurtTC at August 12, 2016 08:21 PM (Pz4pT)
1119
bridgewater to johnson 49yd td
Posted by: muttering vikings fan at August 12, 2016 08:21 PM (mkppl)
1120
1076 Another fun fact about I9 forms. There is no requirement to maintain copies of the eligibility documents. Most companies do, as a matter of policy, but they're not legally required.
The employer signature portion basically says: "this person showed me the docs listed on A or B and C".
There are different arguments on why this is the case, leaving a giant barn door open.
Some people say it was intended to allow evil corporations a loophole to exploit people for evil profits and sport.
My thinking is, it's correct. I run a business and it's not document examination and verification. How the fuck am I responsible for fake GOVERNMENT documents? Isn't it enough that your pawning off immigration enforcement on me instead of doing anything to prevent, deport, or otherwise enforce immigration laws?
Now, I have seen a LOT of blatantly fake docs that I kicked back and didn't hire the person. Guess what? I can be sued for that. The reason? What qualifies me to determine that the SS card written in crayon with the smiley face in place of an eagle is real?
Posted by: Damiano at August 12, 2016 08:11 PM (71OEY)
++++
My guess would be that a copying machine would be required to make copies, and that can be an expensive piece of equipment. Less true today than in the past, especially with the availability of cheap scanners. But, when they started the whole I9 thing, owning a Xerox machine would have been a major expenditure.
The employer signature portion basically says: "this person showed me the docs listed on A or B and C".
There are different arguments on why this is the case, leaving a giant barn door open.
Some people say it was intended to allow evil corporations a loophole to exploit people for evil profits and sport.
My thinking is, it's correct. I run a business and it's not document examination and verification. How the fuck am I responsible for fake GOVERNMENT documents? Isn't it enough that your pawning off immigration enforcement on me instead of doing anything to prevent, deport, or otherwise enforce immigration laws?
Now, I have seen a LOT of blatantly fake docs that I kicked back and didn't hire the person. Guess what? I can be sued for that. The reason? What qualifies me to determine that the SS card written in crayon with the smiley face in place of an eagle is real?
Posted by: Damiano at August 12, 2016 08:11 PM (71OEY)
++++
My guess would be that a copying machine would be required to make copies, and that can be an expensive piece of equipment. Less true today than in the past, especially with the availability of cheap scanners. But, when they started the whole I9 thing, owning a Xerox machine would have been a major expenditure.
Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at August 12, 2016 08:22 PM (R+30W)
Posted by: Golfman at August 12, 2016 08:22 PM (9HX7k)
1122
1114
jane, do you not have an electronic chart online where your doctors puts
all of your lab results? so you never need to call them on the phone
for anything
Posted by: nckate at August 12, 2016 08:20 PM (968UG)
I don't know. The doc's a huge ass wipe we've known since his kid quit Boy Scouts because he was a lazy assed pussy. I've visited him once, and after my follow up visit week after next, I hope to never see his condescending ass again.
jane, do you not have an electronic chart online where your doctors puts
all of your lab results? so you never need to call them on the phone
for anything
Posted by: nckate at August 12, 2016 08:20 PM (968UG)
I don't know. The doc's a huge ass wipe we've known since his kid quit Boy Scouts because he was a lazy assed pussy. I've visited him once, and after my follow up visit week after next, I hope to never see his condescending ass again.
Posted by: Jane D'oh at August 12, 2016 08:23 PM (1ZOkK)
1123
Who knows, they might yet be successful.
Posted by: chemjeff at August 12, 2016 08:20 PM (uAvJJ)
Nobody's making you do this, chum. You're having a go all by yourself.
Posted by: chemjeff at August 12, 2016 08:20 PM (uAvJJ)
Nobody's making you do this, chum. You're having a go all by yourself.
Posted by: BurtTC at August 12, 2016 08:23 PM (Pz4pT)
1124
i]Mention that THE POLICE can stroll onto that private property, without a warrant!!!!, and write tickets for parking in red zones and handicapped spots.
Libertarian heads will explode!
Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at August 12, 2016 08:17 PM (kdS6q)
Cities sucking up to the federal trough.
Cities and states forfeiting soverignty to the feds.
Libertarian heads will explode!
Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at August 12, 2016 08:17 PM (kdS6q)
Cities sucking up to the federal trough.
Cities and states forfeiting soverignty to the feds.
Posted by: gNewt....panhandlers never seem to not have their hands out ~ at August 12, 2016 08:23 PM (/8r1I)
Posted by: Jake at August 12, 2016 08:23 PM (A2czX)
1126
1118 Could be worse. You could be Hope Solo, goat of the Olympics, sitting in her crappy little Brazilian hotel room without any neatsfoot oil.
Posted by: BurtTC at August 12, 2016 08:21 PM (Pz4pT)
Always wondered how anyone watches through an entire soccer game, to find out how it came out. Maybe they just watch the news later. Or maybe it's an alcohol thing. Beer makes time pass faster.
Posted by: BurtTC at August 12, 2016 08:21 PM (Pz4pT)
Always wondered how anyone watches through an entire soccer game, to find out how it came out. Maybe they just watch the news later. Or maybe it's an alcohol thing. Beer makes time pass faster.
Posted by: Splunge at August 12, 2016 08:23 PM (iMxBJ)
1127
TX. Y'all ain't immune.
--------
Of course not, but there are other reasons beyond immigration that help us stay red. It just doesn't concern me too much right now.
--------
Of course not, but there are other reasons beyond immigration that help us stay red. It just doesn't concern me too much right now.
Posted by: SH at August 12, 2016 08:23 PM (gmeXX)
1128
It has nothing to do with civil liberties for you. It just makes you feel bad. And that's the truth
Posted by: ThunderB
It has everything to do with civil liberties for me, and I wouldn't feel bad at all if all illegals were rounded up and sent home, as I've said should happen, on this very site, many times. Stop with the ad hominen.
Posted by: ThunderB
It has everything to do with civil liberties for me, and I wouldn't feel bad at all if all illegals were rounded up and sent home, as I've said should happen, on this very site, many times. Stop with the ad hominen.
Posted by: pep at August 12, 2016 08:23 PM (LAe3v)
Posted by: garrett at August 12, 2016 08:24 PM (c1srJ)
1130
Oh good, we're still doing this.
I guess Moo getting banned left a void that needed to be filled.
I guess Moo getting banned left a void that needed to be filled.
Posted by: L, Elle who is patiently waiting for her I Got Banned by Maetenloch t-shirt at August 12, 2016 08:24 PM (6IPEM)
1131
If, by "putting the finishing moves on his hostile takeover" you mean destroying it and salting the earth,
======
I am good with this.
Are you truly still under the impression that the GOP stands BETWEEN us and Hillary?
Sad!
If, by "putting the finishing moves on his hostile takeover" you mean destroying it and salting the earth,
======
I am good with this.
Are you truly still under the impression that the GOP stands BETWEEN us and Hillary?
Sad!
Posted by: Mortimer at August 12, 2016 08:24 PM (m3NrK)
1132
Could be worse. You could be Hope Solo, goat of the Olympics, sitting in her crappy little Brazilian hotel room without any neatsfoot oil.
Posted by: BurtTC at August 12, 2016 08:21 PM (Pz4pT)
Asshole. I just sucked cheap red wine into my lungs.
Could be worse. You could be Hope Solo, goat of the Olympics, sitting in her crappy little Brazilian hotel room without any neatsfoot oil.
Posted by: BurtTC at August 12, 2016 08:21 PM (Pz4pT)
Asshole. I just sucked cheap red wine into my lungs.
Posted by: IllTemperedCur at August 12, 2016 08:25 PM (tHAoL)
1133
bridgewater to johnson 49yd td
Posted by: muttering vikings fan at August 12, 2016 08:21 PM (mkppl)
Oops! Hooked it, juuuuuust a bit outside, to the left.
Posted by: muttering vikings fan at August 12, 2016 08:21 PM (mkppl)
Oops! Hooked it, juuuuuust a bit outside, to the left.
Posted by: BurtTC at August 12, 2016 08:25 PM (Pz4pT)
1134
I watched Women's Soccer all afternoon.
Didn't have to jerk off. Not once.
Can't say the same about the Women's Beach Volleyball.
Didn't have to jerk off. Not once.
Can't say the same about the Women's Beach Volleyball.
Posted by: garrett at August 12, 2016 08:25 PM (c1srJ)
1135
Got kids SH?
Posted by: Golfman at August 12, 2016 08:25 PM (9HX7k)
1136
I was talking to Chem Jeff, quite specifically. Pep. Relax
Unless you are the same person
Sarc.
Unless you are the same person
Sarc.
Posted by: ThunderB at August 12, 2016 08:25 PM (GOXDF)
1137
I am good with this.
Are you truly still under the impression that the GOP stands BETWEEN us and Hillary?
Sad!
Posted by: Mortimer
You are nothing if not consistent.
Are you truly still under the impression that the GOP stands BETWEEN us and Hillary?
Sad!
Posted by: Mortimer
You are nothing if not consistent.
Posted by: pep at August 12, 2016 08:26 PM (LAe3v)
1138
Dang! Somebody here needs to get laid!
Posted by: Cactus of Liberty at August 12, 2016 08:26 PM (yhYmR)
1139
I just bought a $60 hunk of meat. Choice rib roast. I'm gonna do it tomorrow. I'd been getting a hankering to do one. If I don't destroy it, one of these days I'm gonna order a nice Prime one online.
Seeing some of Hope's selfies the other day really intensified the craving for some nice pink rib roast.
Seeing some of Hope's selfies the other day really intensified the craving for some nice pink rib roast.
Posted by: publius (not Breitbart publius) at August 12, 2016 08:27 PM (DW+jj)
1140
Can't say the same about the Women's Beach Volleyball.
Posted by: garrett at August 12, 2016 08:25 PM (c1srJ)
Indoor volleyball is pretty nice too. Tight Spandex shorts. Ponytails. And then they all huddle up really close together.
Can't say the same about the Women's Beach Volleyball.
Posted by: garrett at August 12, 2016 08:25 PM (c1srJ)
Indoor volleyball is pretty nice too. Tight Spandex shorts. Ponytails. And then they all huddle up really close together.
Posted by: buzzion at August 12, 2016 08:27 PM (bMG0w)
1141
I hear down in Texas half the TexMex's vote Republican. They don't want illegals taking their job or bringing their wild ways into their neighborhood.
Posted by: gNewt....panhandlers never seem to not have their hands out ~ at August 12, 2016 08:27 PM (/8r1I)
1142
1134 I watched Women's Soccer all afternoon.
Didn't have to jerk off. Not once.
=====
Ooooh look at Mr. Self control.
Show off.
Didn't have to jerk off. Not once.
=====
Ooooh look at Mr. Self control.
Show off.
Posted by: Mortimer at August 12, 2016 08:28 PM (m3NrK)
1143
Always wondered how anyone watches through an entire soccer game, to find out how it came out. Maybe they just watch the news later. Or maybe it's an alcohol thing. Beer makes time pass faster.
Posted by: Splunge at August 12, 2016 08:23 PM (iMxBJ)
I knew a girl, daughter of a friend, good enough to get a college scholarship. Watching them play... all I could think was "My Lord! These are the BEST they could find..."
Posted by: Splunge at August 12, 2016 08:23 PM (iMxBJ)
I knew a girl, daughter of a friend, good enough to get a college scholarship. Watching them play... all I could think was "My Lord! These are the BEST they could find..."
Posted by: BurtTC at August 12, 2016 08:28 PM (Pz4pT)
1144
"I'm just not going to worry about it at this point until I start seeing evidence that it is turning blue.
Posted by: SH"
What I have seen in CA is that the dominant problem is the law that Jerry Brown signed into law on the last day of his term, mandating that every muni employee has to pay union dues. That has provided a steady stream of money to the Dems, and they haven't lost the state since. Sure, the unions would buy off both parties if they had to, but all they needed was one.
So, beware the conveyor money belt, and stop it if you can.
Posted by: SH"
What I have seen in CA is that the dominant problem is the law that Jerry Brown signed into law on the last day of his term, mandating that every muni employee has to pay union dues. That has provided a steady stream of money to the Dems, and they haven't lost the state since. Sure, the unions would buy off both parties if they had to, but all they needed was one.
So, beware the conveyor money belt, and stop it if you can.
Posted by: PJ at August 12, 2016 08:28 PM (cHuNI)
1145
My wife is a bit of a hypochondriac. She had some high blood pressure readings so she went whole hog to cure it. Among other things, she bought a somewhat high priced blood pressure monitor. It always came back OK. She went back to the doctor and she had high blood pressure. The diagnosis: white coat syndrome. She is so scared whenever she goes to the doctor, her blood pressure goes up.
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Now With More Je Ne Sais Quoi! at August 12, 2016 08:28 PM (Nwg0u)
1146
I watched Women's Soccer all afternoon.
Did you see France v. Canada? Le Sommer for France was quite fetching.
Did you see France v. Canada? Le Sommer for France was quite fetching.
Posted by: pep at August 12, 2016 08:29 PM (LAe3v)
1147
Oh, that beach volleyball. Those tight little buns just drive me crazy.
I read something about what's her name, Walsh-Jennings and her new partner designing their own little "uniforms", and getting some company to produce it. They've got good taste, I must say.
I read something about what's her name, Walsh-Jennings and her new partner designing their own little "uniforms", and getting some company to produce it. They've got good taste, I must say.
Posted by: publius (not Breitbart publius) at August 12, 2016 08:29 PM (DW+jj)
1148
There were a couple really cute rosey-cheeked canadians, too.
Posted by: garrett at August 12, 2016 08:30 PM (c1srJ)
1149
A lot of these arguments sound the same when Democrats say they are against a border fence being built purely because they're fiscally responsible and don't want to spend the tax payer money.
Pure bullshit.
Same with the arguments against providing ID or an employer doing E Verify.
The people "up in arms" over this are in love with the idea of an open border, they think this strategy will lure in conservatives.
Pure bullshit.
Same with the arguments against providing ID or an employer doing E Verify.
The people "up in arms" over this are in love with the idea of an open border, they think this strategy will lure in conservatives.
Posted by: Julius at August 12, 2016 08:30 PM (Jzg4b)
1150
1117
I think of it as modern feudalism. The international nobility have much more common interest with each other than with their respective national serfs or their decayed nation-states.
Posted by: San Franpsycho at August 12, 2016 08:21 PM (EZebt)
Yep, see my #272. I'm glad I'm not the only one who sees where this is headed.
I forgot to point out that the American notion of "equality before the law" has fallen by the wayside and has been replaced by the feudal notion of different laws for different classes.
In the Middle Ages, it was illegal for a peasant to carry a sword. Only nobles had that privilege. See any parallel with gun control for the masses and private armed security details for the elite?
I think of it as modern feudalism. The international nobility have much more common interest with each other than with their respective national serfs or their decayed nation-states.
Posted by: San Franpsycho at August 12, 2016 08:21 PM (EZebt)
Yep, see my #272. I'm glad I'm not the only one who sees where this is headed.
I forgot to point out that the American notion of "equality before the law" has fallen by the wayside and has been replaced by the feudal notion of different laws for different classes.
In the Middle Ages, it was illegal for a peasant to carry a sword. Only nobles had that privilege. See any parallel with gun control for the masses and private armed security details for the elite?
Posted by: rickl at August 12, 2016 08:31 PM (sdi6R)
1151
1148 There were a couple really cute rosey-cheeked canadians, too.
Posted by: garrett at August 12, 2016 08:30 PM (c1srJ)
Ambiguous
Posted by: garrett at August 12, 2016 08:30 PM (c1srJ)
Ambiguous
Posted by: Splunge at August 12, 2016 08:31 PM (iMxBJ)
1152
In an intelligent world, we'd say if you can't speak English, there is probable cause to assume you're here illegally.
I can't agree with that, because as of now anyway, English is not the official language.
Now if English *were* the official language, then I would be closer to your point of view.
I can't agree with that, because as of now anyway, English is not the official language.
Now if English *were* the official language, then I would be closer to your point of view.
Posted by: chemjeff at August 12, 2016 08:31 PM (uAvJJ)
1153
I make a salmon comment and nothing?
Have fun arguing with a brick wall, folks. I'm out 'til the ONT probably.
Have fun arguing with a brick wall, folks. I'm out 'til the ONT probably.
Posted by: Brother Cavil, That Guy at August 12, 2016 08:31 PM (vyqqu)
1154
I watched Women's Soccer all afternoon.
Didn't have to jerk off. Not once.
"I'm just not going to worry about it at this point until I start seeing evidence that it is turning blue.
#commentsthatjustbelongtogwther
I watched Women's Soccer all afternoon.
Didn't have to jerk off. Not once.
"I'm just not going to worry about it at this point until I start seeing evidence that it is turning blue.
#commentsthatjustbelongtogwther
Posted by: Mortimer at August 12, 2016 08:32 PM (m3NrK)
1155
Always wondered how anyone watches through an entire soccer game, to find out how it came out.
-
Careful. If you waste too much time on the internet, the Devil makes you watch soccer all the time in Hell.
-
Careful. If you waste too much time on the internet, the Devil makes you watch soccer all the time in Hell.
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Now With More Je Ne Sais Quoi! at August 12, 2016 08:32 PM (Nwg0u)
Posted by: San Franpsycho at August 12, 2016 08:32 PM (EZebt)
1157
Hey pep. I wasn't addessing you. I was talking to Chem Jeff. You could tell because that sentence started with the words "Chem Jeff "
Posted by: ThunderB at August 12, 2016 08:33 PM (cSqdp)
1158
Always wondered how anyone watches through an entire soccer game, to find out how it came out.
Its such a shame when someone doesn't have any paint they need to watch dry.
Its such a shame when someone doesn't have any paint they need to watch dry.
Posted by: buzzion at August 12, 2016 08:33 PM (bMG0w)
1159
late and almost on topic. sad
Do we keep the southern border open so the soon to be unemployed illegals doing the work Americans won't do can go home and be reunited with their families?
http://tinyurl.com/hjj8bej
Will the border be closed when the politicians realize their own jobs are threatened?
http://tinyurl.com/zojxwsz
Will the elites ever be able to empathize with their base or smell the color nine?
Do we keep the southern border open so the soon to be unemployed illegals doing the work Americans won't do can go home and be reunited with their families?
http://tinyurl.com/hjj8bej
Will the border be closed when the politicians realize their own jobs are threatened?
http://tinyurl.com/zojxwsz
Will the elites ever be able to empathize with their base or smell the color nine?
Posted by: Dropped In and Dropped Out at August 12, 2016 08:33 PM (AWSI1)
1160
1155 Careful. If you waste too much time on the internet, the Devil makes you watch soccer all the time in Hell.
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Now With More Je Ne Sais Quoi! at August 12, 2016 08:32 PM (Nwg0u)
Crap. Probably not Swedish Bikini team soccer, either. Crap.
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Now With More Je Ne Sais Quoi! at August 12, 2016 08:32 PM (Nwg0u)
Crap. Probably not Swedish Bikini team soccer, either. Crap.
Posted by: Splunge at August 12, 2016 08:34 PM (iMxBJ)
1161
The people "up in arms" over this are in love with
the idea of an open border, they think this strategy will lure in
conservatives.
Posted by: Julius at August 12, 2016 08:30 PM (Jzg4b)
On the contrary, those arguing the libertarian position here have said over and over again that we want to find ways to enforce the immigration laws in a manner that does not infringe on civil liberties of citizens. So we are not using the Constitution as an excuse NOTt to enforce the law, we are trying to find the *correct* way to enforce the law.
the idea of an open border, they think this strategy will lure in
conservatives.
Posted by: Julius at August 12, 2016 08:30 PM (Jzg4b)
On the contrary, those arguing the libertarian position here have said over and over again that we want to find ways to enforce the immigration laws in a manner that does not infringe on civil liberties of citizens. So we are not using the Constitution as an excuse NOTt to enforce the law, we are trying to find the *correct* way to enforce the law.
Posted by: chemjeff at August 12, 2016 08:34 PM (uAvJJ)
1162
1152
In an intelligent world, we'd say if you can't speak English, there is probable cause to assume you're here illegally.
I can't agree with that, because as of now anyway, English is not the official language.
Now if English *were* the official language, then I would be closer to your point of view.
Then we should make it so.
In an intelligent world, we'd say if you can't speak English, there is probable cause to assume you're here illegally.
I can't agree with that, because as of now anyway, English is not the official language.
Now if English *were* the official language, then I would be closer to your point of view.
Then we should make it so.
Posted by: pep at August 12, 2016 08:34 PM (LAe3v)
1163
A Rod just stroked a nice RBI Double.
Posted by: garrett at August 12, 2016 08:24 PM (c1srJ)
Ooh! Number 548!! Moves him out of a tie with Manny Ramirez for number 30 on the all time list. Only 29 other guys between him and Tris Speaker. 244 to go...
Still, not quite the same as ol' number 697.
Posted by: garrett at August 12, 2016 08:24 PM (c1srJ)
Ooh! Number 548!! Moves him out of a tie with Manny Ramirez for number 30 on the all time list. Only 29 other guys between him and Tris Speaker. 244 to go...
Still, not quite the same as ol' number 697.
Posted by: BurtTC at August 12, 2016 08:34 PM (Pz4pT)
1164
>>>How Global Elites Forsake Their Countrymen<<<
How has the Ewok forasken his countrymen?!
He's probably out on the town, scouting for chicks with his fancy new eyesight, and svelte physique.
Or maybe he's in hibernation after watching women's soccer.
How has the Ewok forasken his countrymen?!
He's probably out on the town, scouting for chicks with his fancy new eyesight, and svelte physique.
Or maybe he's in hibernation after watching women's soccer.
Posted by: Ewok Ewok Lama Sabachthani at August 12, 2016 08:34 PM (H9MG5)
1165
The beach volleyball players give each other hand signals, behind their backsides. That gives a good excuse for photographers to take detailed, close up shots. Yeah, we're trying to figure out the details of those hand signals.
Boy, I love to do some hand signals back there myself. Let my fingers do some walking.
Boy, I love to do some hand signals back there myself. Let my fingers do some walking.
Posted by: publius (not Breitbart publius) at August 12, 2016 08:34 PM (DW+jj)
1166
Well, it took almost 50 years, but I finally found a Chinese food delivery joint that understands the meaning of extra extra hot & spicy.
Posted by: Chi at August 12, 2016 08:35 PM (E/j+Q)
1167
Posted by: rickl at August 12, 2016 08:31 PM (sdi6R)
Thanks for reference. It was like a trip in the Wayback Machine.
Thanks for reference. It was like a trip in the Wayback Machine.
Posted by: San Franpsycho at August 12, 2016 08:35 PM (EZebt)
1168
As Mark Steyn says "the interesting arguments are between Libertarians and Conservatives"
L would argue you can have open borders and no welfare state. This would attract the motivated and skilled to the country.
If the state does not provide welfare, a couple interesting things happen.
The poor, unfortunate, unlucky, folks that need help - WOULD HAVE TO BE NICE. Most people are willing to lend a hand or donate, but only when and how much and to whom I feel like it.
If you are an a-hole and ask me for money like the cretins on the streets of Seattle, the answer is f-no.
If you are my neighbor or a nice guy in the neighborhood or a nice illegal who does good work for cheap, the answer is heck yes.
Getting rid of the state safety net would have a positive and civilizing effect on the public. I think.
kinda off topic but that is the direction you spun me in.
L would argue you can have open borders and no welfare state. This would attract the motivated and skilled to the country.
If the state does not provide welfare, a couple interesting things happen.
The poor, unfortunate, unlucky, folks that need help - WOULD HAVE TO BE NICE. Most people are willing to lend a hand or donate, but only when and how much and to whom I feel like it.
If you are an a-hole and ask me for money like the cretins on the streets of Seattle, the answer is f-no.
If you are my neighbor or a nice guy in the neighborhood or a nice illegal who does good work for cheap, the answer is heck yes.
Getting rid of the state safety net would have a positive and civilizing effect on the public. I think.
kinda off topic but that is the direction you spun me in.
Posted by: Floyd Winston at August 12, 2016 08:36 PM (0CKeS)
Posted by: chemjeff at August 12, 2016 08:36 PM (uAvJJ)
1170
On the contrary, those arguing the libertarian
position here have said over and over again that we want to find ways to
enforce the immigration laws in a manner that does not infringe on
civil liberties of citizens. So we are not using the Constitution as an
excuse NOTt to enforce the law, we are trying to find the *correct* way
to enforce the law.
Posted by: chemjeff
And I have to disagree with you there. I've heard a lot of libertarians argue that open borders are just the bee's knees. They aren't all looking for the right way to enforce the law, many of them just don't want the law at all.
position here have said over and over again that we want to find ways to
enforce the immigration laws in a manner that does not infringe on
civil liberties of citizens. So we are not using the Constitution as an
excuse NOTt to enforce the law, we are trying to find the *correct* way
to enforce the law.
Posted by: chemjeff
And I have to disagree with you there. I've heard a lot of libertarians argue that open borders are just the bee's knees. They aren't all looking for the right way to enforce the law, many of them just don't want the law at all.
Posted by: pep at August 12, 2016 08:36 PM (LAe3v)
1171
Careful. If you waste too much time on the internet, the Devil makes you watch soccer all the time in Hell.
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Now With More Je Ne Sais Quoi! at August 12, 2016 08:32 PM (Nwg0u)
Welcome to Heaven. Here's your harp
Welcome to Hell. Here's you're accordion.
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Now With More Je Ne Sais Quoi! at August 12, 2016 08:32 PM (Nwg0u)
Welcome to Heaven. Here's your harp
Welcome to Hell. Here's you're accordion.
Posted by: IllTemperedCur at August 12, 2016 08:36 PM (tHAoL)
1172
Noonan has punched us in the dick so many times. But she makes sense here, putting into words exactly what many of us have been saying.
Posted by: JoeF. at August 12, 2016 08:37 PM (j68a9)
1173
On the contrary, those arguing the libertarian position here have said over and over again that we want to find ways to enforce the immigration laws in a manner that does not infringe on civil liberties of citizens.
Ahem.
"My vision of the border with Mexico is that a truck from the United States going into Mexico and a truck coming from Mexico into the United States will pass each other at the border going 60 miles an hour. Yes, we should have open borders." - Gary Johnson, Libertarian candidate for President.
Ahem.
"My vision of the border with Mexico is that a truck from the United States going into Mexico and a truck coming from Mexico into the United States will pass each other at the border going 60 miles an hour. Yes, we should have open borders." - Gary Johnson, Libertarian candidate for President.
Posted by: V the K at August 12, 2016 08:37 PM (jn7FC)
1174
Welcome to Heaven. Here's your harp
Welcome to Hell. Here's you're accordion.
Posted by: IllTemperedCur at August 12, 2016 08:36 PM (tHAoL
Poor Al Yankovic.
Welcome to Heaven. Here's your harp
Welcome to Hell. Here's you're accordion.
Posted by: IllTemperedCur at August 12, 2016 08:36 PM (tHAoL
Poor Al Yankovic.
Posted by: buzzion at August 12, 2016 08:37 PM (bMG0w)
1175
Well, it took almost 50 years, but I finally found a Chinese food delivery joint that understands the meaning of extra extra hot & spicy.
Posted by: Chi at August 12, 2016 08:35 PM (E/j+Q)
******
Yeah? What did you order? Was it good?
Posted by: Chi at August 12, 2016 08:35 PM (E/j+Q)
******
Yeah? What did you order? Was it good?
Posted by: L, Elle who is patiently waiting for her I Got Banned by Maetenloch t-shirt at August 12, 2016 08:38 PM (6IPEM)
1176
"My vision of the border with Mexico is that a truck from the United States going into Mexico and a truck coming from Mexico into the United States will pass each other at the border going 60 miles an hour. Yes, we should have open borders." - Gary Johnson, Libertarian candidate for President.
Posted by: V the K at August 12, 2016 08:37 PM (jn7FC)
He can be on the first outbound truck and then we'll close the road
Posted by: V the K at August 12, 2016 08:37 PM (jn7FC)
He can be on the first outbound truck and then we'll close the road
Posted by: TheQuietMan at August 12, 2016 08:38 PM (auHtY)
1177
Heh, when peasants got pistols, it was the beginning of their end.
Posted by: gNewt....panhandlers never seem to not have their hands out ~ at August 12, 2016 08:38 PM (/8r1I)
1178
And I have to disagree with you there. I've heard a lot of libertarians argue that open borders are just the bee's knees. They aren't all looking for the right way to enforce the law, many of them just don't want the law at all.
Posted by: pep
Exactly
It's actually in the Libertarian platform, basically zero border enforcement.
Groups like the Koch Brothers are HUGE on this issue, and one of the brothers actually ran on the Libertarian ticket for President.
Posted by: pep
Exactly
It's actually in the Libertarian platform, basically zero border enforcement.
Groups like the Koch Brothers are HUGE on this issue, and one of the brothers actually ran on the Libertarian ticket for President.
Posted by: Julius at August 12, 2016 08:38 PM (Jzg4b)
1179
chemjeff ruins another post with professorial arguementation.
Don't know why anyone responds to him.
he gets his nut off being contrary.
Don't know why anyone responds to him.
he gets his nut off being contrary.
Posted by: seamrog at August 12, 2016 08:38 PM (2BIQd)
1180
>>>I forgot to point out that the American notion of
"equality before the law" has fallen by the wayside and has been
replaced by the feudal notion of different laws for different classes.
In the Middle Ages, it was illegal for a peasant to carry a sword.
Only nobles had that privilege. See any parallel with gun control for
the masses and private armed security details for the elite?
Posted by: rickl at August 12, 2016 08:31 PM (sdi6R)<<<
As I always say, if I'm ever in trouble with the law I don't want any special treatment... I just want to be treated like an illegal alien.
"equality before the law" has fallen by the wayside and has been
replaced by the feudal notion of different laws for different classes.
In the Middle Ages, it was illegal for a peasant to carry a sword.
Only nobles had that privilege. See any parallel with gun control for
the masses and private armed security details for the elite?
Posted by: rickl at August 12, 2016 08:31 PM (sdi6R)<<<
As I always say, if I'm ever in trouble with the law I don't want any special treatment... I just want to be treated like an illegal alien.
Posted by: Howie Carr at August 12, 2016 08:38 PM (H9MG5)
1181
1166 Well, it took almost 50 years, but I finally found a Chinese food delivery joint that understands the meaning of extra extra hot & spicy.
Posted by: Chi at August 12, 2016 08:35 PM (E/j+Q
=====
Pics?
Posted by: Chi at August 12, 2016 08:35 PM (E/j+Q
=====
Pics?
Posted by: San Franpsycho at August 12, 2016 08:39 PM (EZebt)
1182
Posted by: Floyd Winston at August 12, 2016 08:36 PM (0CKeS)
Indeed, you've nicely summarized one of many libertarian arguments against the welfare state.
Indeed, you've nicely summarized one of many libertarian arguments against the welfare state.
Posted by: chemjeff at August 12, 2016 08:39 PM (uAvJJ)
1183
Welcome to Heaven. Here's your harp
Welcome to Hell. Here's you're accordion.
Posted by: IllTemperedCur at August 12, 2016 08:36 PM (tHAoL
Poor Al Yankovic.
Posted by: buzzion
****
Line from Hot Shots:
Our assignment is to knock out the nuclear-weapons plant here at Falafel Heights. The plant goes on line in 12 hours and is heavily defended. Now, if you have trouble hitting your objective, your secondary targets are here and here: an accordion factory and a mime school.
Welcome to Hell. Here's you're accordion.
Posted by: IllTemperedCur at August 12, 2016 08:36 PM (tHAoL
Poor Al Yankovic.
Posted by: buzzion
****
Line from Hot Shots:
Our assignment is to knock out the nuclear-weapons plant here at Falafel Heights. The plant goes on line in 12 hours and is heavily defended. Now, if you have trouble hitting your objective, your secondary targets are here and here: an accordion factory and a mime school.
Posted by: Tilikum Killer Assault Whale-Skeet Surfer at August 12, 2016 08:39 PM (hVdx9)
1184
Tyranny, open borders and weed!
These are the things America needs!
These are the things America needs!
Posted by: Gary Johnson at August 12, 2016 08:39 PM (0mRoj)
1185
Well, it took almost 50 years, but I finally found a Chinese food
delivery joint that understands the meaning of extra extra hot
spicy.
Posted by: Chi at August 12, 2016 08:35 PM (E/j+Q)
The hottest and spiciest food I ever had was Indian (lamb madras) in, of all places, Denver. Delish, but I had to work at it.
delivery joint that understands the meaning of extra extra hot
spicy.
Posted by: Chi at August 12, 2016 08:35 PM (E/j+Q)
The hottest and spiciest food I ever had was Indian (lamb madras) in, of all places, Denver. Delish, but I had to work at it.
Posted by: pep at August 12, 2016 08:39 PM (LAe3v)
1186
Getting rid of the state safety net would have a positive and civilizing effect on the public. I think.
kinda off topic but that is the direction you spun me in.
Posted by: Floyd Winston at August 12, 2016 08:36 PM (0CKeS)
Seems right on point to me. The trouble with the libertarian arguments generally is that they argue one half of the equation, and pretend the other half doesn't exist.
IF there was no welfare state... ah, but there is. And we ain't doing nothing to get rid of it no how.
So... until we do, the libertarian arguments are just mental masturbation.
kinda off topic but that is the direction you spun me in.
Posted by: Floyd Winston at August 12, 2016 08:36 PM (0CKeS)
Seems right on point to me. The trouble with the libertarian arguments generally is that they argue one half of the equation, and pretend the other half doesn't exist.
IF there was no welfare state... ah, but there is. And we ain't doing nothing to get rid of it no how.
So... until we do, the libertarian arguments are just mental masturbation.
Posted by: BurtTC at August 12, 2016 08:39 PM (Pz4pT)
1187
>>> What I am not okay with, is if there are a bunch of people *not committing any crimes*, such as simply hanging out at Home Depot, and LEO starts demanding ID.
....
Let's play this out.
1. A cop's basic job is "serve and protect". I pay taxes to pay them so that, if I decide to go out to a movie or go home from my business, I have some menial expectation that there might be someone around that is on the lookout for bad stuff.
2. Let's say I own the Home Depot. I went home and the store is closed. It's my property. No one has any business there until I open again.
3. Kids decide to skateboard in my parking lot. It becomes the new "hang out and skateboard place". Eventually, one of them will fall, get hurt, and the parents will sue me. Eventually, bad kids come hang out with the good kids and start smashing windows because they're bored.
4. By paying taxes that pay cops, I am taking a minimal amount of my responsibility for my safety and the safety of my property and delegating it to them. The kids have the same expectation since their parents presumably pay taxes too. If I am a cop, i look for suspicious behavior in order to protect and serve everyone. Kids hanging out on private property of a closed business... might be nothing, might be something. If I am doing my job, I should find out the answer. To start with- the store is closed, no one appears to be shopping or waiting for me to open. They're skateboarding. There are no signs that say "skate park" in my parking lot. That is sufficient to ask, "what are you doing here?". I am even okay, if it were me, with asking for ID so that, if the next night, I show up with Groucho glasses and a fake beard and start skateboarding again, the cops can verify that it was me they told previously.
....
Let's play this out.
1. A cop's basic job is "serve and protect". I pay taxes to pay them so that, if I decide to go out to a movie or go home from my business, I have some menial expectation that there might be someone around that is on the lookout for bad stuff.
2. Let's say I own the Home Depot. I went home and the store is closed. It's my property. No one has any business there until I open again.
3. Kids decide to skateboard in my parking lot. It becomes the new "hang out and skateboard place". Eventually, one of them will fall, get hurt, and the parents will sue me. Eventually, bad kids come hang out with the good kids and start smashing windows because they're bored.
4. By paying taxes that pay cops, I am taking a minimal amount of my responsibility for my safety and the safety of my property and delegating it to them. The kids have the same expectation since their parents presumably pay taxes too. If I am a cop, i look for suspicious behavior in order to protect and serve everyone. Kids hanging out on private property of a closed business... might be nothing, might be something. If I am doing my job, I should find out the answer. To start with- the store is closed, no one appears to be shopping or waiting for me to open. They're skateboarding. There are no signs that say "skate park" in my parking lot. That is sufficient to ask, "what are you doing here?". I am even okay, if it were me, with asking for ID so that, if the next night, I show up with Groucho glasses and a fake beard and start skateboarding again, the cops can verify that it was me they told previously.
Posted by: Damiano at August 12, 2016 08:40 PM (71OEY)
1188
"My vision of the border with Mexico is that a truck
from the United States going into Mexico and a truck coming from Mexico
into the United States will pass each other at the border going 60
miles an hour. Yes, we should have open borders." - Gary Johnson,
Libertarian candidate for President.
Posted by: V the K at August 12, 2016 08:37 PM (jn7FC)
Yes, I know the capital-L Libertarian Party is officially in favor of open borders.
I am talking about those arguing the little-l libertarian position when it comes to Fourth Amendment concerns here in this thread.
from the United States going into Mexico and a truck coming from Mexico
into the United States will pass each other at the border going 60
miles an hour. Yes, we should have open borders." - Gary Johnson,
Libertarian candidate for President.
Posted by: V the K at August 12, 2016 08:37 PM (jn7FC)
Yes, I know the capital-L Libertarian Party is officially in favor of open borders.
I am talking about those arguing the little-l libertarian position when it comes to Fourth Amendment concerns here in this thread.
Posted by: chemjeff at August 12, 2016 08:40 PM (uAvJJ)
1189
>>On the contrary, those arguing the libertarian position here have said over and over again that we want to find ways to enforce the immigration laws in a manner that does not infringe on civil liberties of citizens. So we are not using the Constitution as an excuse NOTt to enforce the law, we are trying to find the *correct* way to enforce the law.
No, you are making ridiculous claims for the sake of arguing.
We have all sorts of law breakers walking amongst us everyday, laws that we actually enforce like robbery and assault. Somehow, the cops manage to investigate and arrest many of these criminals without infringing on the civil liberties of everyone.
There is absolutely zero reason to suggest that the only way to enforce immigration is by doing the opposite and infringing on everyones rights. It's a specious argument based on no facts or evidence.
We can enforce the immigration laws in a lawful manner. In fact, we used to do just that. It's only relatively recently that we've decided to stop any and all enforcement and specifically infringe on the rights of legal citizens. That's what you should be worried about, the rights you are losing by not enforcing our immigration laws.
No, you are making ridiculous claims for the sake of arguing.
We have all sorts of law breakers walking amongst us everyday, laws that we actually enforce like robbery and assault. Somehow, the cops manage to investigate and arrest many of these criminals without infringing on the civil liberties of everyone.
There is absolutely zero reason to suggest that the only way to enforce immigration is by doing the opposite and infringing on everyones rights. It's a specious argument based on no facts or evidence.
We can enforce the immigration laws in a lawful manner. In fact, we used to do just that. It's only relatively recently that we've decided to stop any and all enforcement and specifically infringe on the rights of legal citizens. That's what you should be worried about, the rights you are losing by not enforcing our immigration laws.
Posted by: JackStraw at August 12, 2016 08:40 PM (/tuJf)
1190
chemjeff ruins another post with professorial arguementation.
Don't know why anyone responds to him.
he gets his nut off being contrary.
Posted by: seamrog
True, him getting whacked around like a pinata gets old
Some people though are gluttons for punishments.
Don't know why anyone responds to him.
he gets his nut off being contrary.
Posted by: seamrog
True, him getting whacked around like a pinata gets old
Some people though are gluttons for punishments.
Posted by: Julius at August 12, 2016 08:40 PM (Jzg4b)
1191
NOOOOOOOOOOOD
Posted by: Mis. Hum. at August 12, 2016 08:40 PM (voOPb)
1192
So... until we do, the libertarian arguments are just mental masturbation.
Posted by: BurtTC at August 12, 2016 08:39 PM (Pz4pT)
So, let's get rid of the welfare state then....
Posted by: BurtTC at August 12, 2016 08:39 PM (Pz4pT)
So, let's get rid of the welfare state then....
Posted by: chemjeff at August 12, 2016 08:41 PM (uAvJJ)
1193
>>>Well, it took almost 50 years, but I finally found a Chinese food
delivery joint that understands the meaning of extra extra hot
spicy.
Posted by: Chi at August 12, 2016 08:35 PM (E/j+Q<<<
Ok, sir, derivery guy show up with Speedo and a smire, but you pay rot extra!
delivery joint that understands the meaning of extra extra hot
spicy.
Posted by: Chi at August 12, 2016 08:35 PM (E/j+Q<<<
Ok, sir, derivery guy show up with Speedo and a smire, but you pay rot extra!
Posted by: the new Chinese food delivery joint at August 12, 2016 08:42 PM (H9MG5)
1194
1184 Tyranny, open borders and weed!
These are the things America needs!
Posted by: Gary Johnson at August 12, 2016 08:39 PM (0mRoj)
Don't forget gun confiscation.
@RedAlert
Libertarian VP pick slams guns: Handguns "even worse than" AR-15s via @RyJamesG
Posted by: weft cut-loop at August 12, 2016 03:45 PM (9sySV)
These are the things America needs!
Posted by: Gary Johnson at August 12, 2016 08:39 PM (0mRoj)
Don't forget gun confiscation.
@RedAlert
Libertarian VP pick slams guns: Handguns "even worse than" AR-15s via @RyJamesG
Posted by: weft cut-loop at August 12, 2016 03:45 PM (9sySV)
Posted by: buzzion at August 12, 2016 08:42 PM (bMG0w)
1195
Fuck.
Now it's raining like a motherfucker, the power's still out, but the other buildings in the apartment complex just had THEIR power come on.
God hates me. That's gotta be it.
Fuck.
Now it's raining like a motherfucker, the power's still out, but the other buildings in the apartment complex just had THEIR power come on.
God hates me. That's gotta be it.
Posted by: IllTemperedCur at August 12, 2016 08:42 PM (tHAoL)
Posted by: Banana Splits Guy at August 12, 2016 08:42 PM (u6zrJ)
Posted by: Insomniac at August 12, 2016 08:43 PM (0mRoj)
1198
Posted by: BurtTC at August 12, 2016 08:39 PM (Pz4pT)
So, let's get rid of the welfare state then....
Posted by: chemjeff at August 12, 2016 08:41 PM (uAvJJ)
How about you go do that, then come back here and let us know when you're done.
So, let's get rid of the welfare state then....
Posted by: chemjeff at August 12, 2016 08:41 PM (uAvJJ)
How about you go do that, then come back here and let us know when you're done.
Posted by: BurtTC at August 12, 2016 08:43 PM (Pz4pT)
1199
Yeah, the doctrinaire Libertarian position is open borders (I wonder what the Randians opinion is?). The state should have no power over these silly little imaginary lines on maps.
Of course, they claim to hold property rights of the individual as paramount, and what's that all about? Imaginary lines on maps.
The doctrinaire position is also against any state power to control the flow of goods and services across these imaginary lines as well.
Of course, they claim to hold property rights of the individual as paramount, and what's that all about? Imaginary lines on maps.
The doctrinaire position is also against any state power to control the flow of goods and services across these imaginary lines as well.
Posted by: publius (not Breitbart publius) at August 12, 2016 08:43 PM (DW+jj)
1200
The problem with out elites is that at the most basic level they are feckless, undisciplined and, above all, unpatriotic.
I'm sure Washington and Jefferson and Hamilton looked down their noses at the great unwashed--at least on a "social" level. Washington, in particular, carried himself almost like an aristocrat. But at the same time, he wasn't so out of touch that he didn't no how most people lived. Yes, he was a "gentleman farmer", but he was still a farmer, and got his hands dirty, and worked from dawn to dusk.
We just aren't blessed with such men at this point in our history.
Will we ever again?
I'm sure Washington and Jefferson and Hamilton looked down their noses at the great unwashed--at least on a "social" level. Washington, in particular, carried himself almost like an aristocrat. But at the same time, he wasn't so out of touch that he didn't no how most people lived. Yes, he was a "gentleman farmer", but he was still a farmer, and got his hands dirty, and worked from dawn to dusk.
We just aren't blessed with such men at this point in our history.
Will we ever again?
Posted by: JoeF. at August 12, 2016 08:43 PM (j68a9)
1201
Don't know why anyone responds to him.
he gets his nut off being contrary.
Posted by: seamrog at August 12, 2016 08:38 PM (2BIQd)
Yep. If his nic was Hector nobody would respond
he gets his nut off being contrary.
Posted by: seamrog at August 12, 2016 08:38 PM (2BIQd)
Yep. If his nic was Hector nobody would respond
Posted by: Guilty at August 12, 2016 08:44 PM (9HX7k)
1202
Washington, in particular, carried himself almost like an aristocrat.
But at the same time, he wasn't so out of touch that he didn't no how
most people lived. Yes, he was a "gentleman farmer", but he was still a
farmer, and got his hands dirty, and worked from dawn to dusk.
Plus, he had, like, 48 dicks.
But at the same time, he wasn't so out of touch that he didn't no how
most people lived. Yes, he was a "gentleman farmer", but he was still a
farmer, and got his hands dirty, and worked from dawn to dusk.
Plus, he had, like, 48 dicks.
Posted by: pep at August 12, 2016 08:45 PM (LAe3v)
1203
Yeah, the doctrinaire Libertarian position is open borders (I wonder what the Randians opinion is?). The state should have no power over these silly little imaginary lines on maps.
Of course, they claim to hold property rights of the individual as paramount, and what's that all about? Imaginary lines on maps.
The doctrinaire position is also against any state power to control the flow of goods and services across these imaginary lines as well.
Posted by: publius
To them, America as a nation is simply a trading zone. No culture, no identity, just a place to swap goods and services.
Of course, they claim to hold property rights of the individual as paramount, and what's that all about? Imaginary lines on maps.
The doctrinaire position is also against any state power to control the flow of goods and services across these imaginary lines as well.
Posted by: publius
To them, America as a nation is simply a trading zone. No culture, no identity, just a place to swap goods and services.
Posted by: Julius at August 12, 2016 08:46 PM (Jzg4b)
1204
you don't get an accordion in hell, you get to listen though, for eternity.
Posted by: muttering vikings fan at August 12, 2016 08:46 PM (mkppl)
1205
>>> Getting rid of the state safety net would have a positive and civilizing effect on the public. I think.
.....
I completely agree. Charity is not a function of government, no matter how needed or justified it may seem. They got this right eons ago with the old story about the Congressman flipping on asking for funds after a city burned down. Rather than asking for government money, he asked his fellow congress critters to kick in out of their own pockets.
Further, the more the goverment takes, the less I have to give. I can't create a job, invest in a business that creates jobs, or buy stuff that contributes to someone's paycheck with money the goverment takes. I shouldn't have to fight to get someone out of office because they decided one charity was more worthy of my money than another. That should be my decision to make... or not make.
Taking my property without my consent, regardless of the morality of your cause is still theft.
.....
I completely agree. Charity is not a function of government, no matter how needed or justified it may seem. They got this right eons ago with the old story about the Congressman flipping on asking for funds after a city burned down. Rather than asking for government money, he asked his fellow congress critters to kick in out of their own pockets.
Further, the more the goverment takes, the less I have to give. I can't create a job, invest in a business that creates jobs, or buy stuff that contributes to someone's paycheck with money the goverment takes. I shouldn't have to fight to get someone out of office because they decided one charity was more worthy of my money than another. That should be my decision to make... or not make.
Taking my property without my consent, regardless of the morality of your cause is still theft.
Posted by: Damiano at August 12, 2016 08:46 PM (71OEY)
1206
Plus, he had, like, 48 dicks.
Scarred old slaver knows he's doing alright
Hear him with (whip?) the women just about midnight...
Scarred old slaver knows he's doing alright
Hear him with (whip?) the women just about midnight...
Posted by: JoeF. at August 12, 2016 08:47 PM (j68a9)
1207
1168
I would argue you can have open borders and no welfare state. This would attract the motivated and skilled to the country.
If the state does not provide welfare, a couple interesting things happen.
The poor, unfortunate, unlucky, folks that need help - WOULD HAVE TO BE NICE. Most people are willing to lend a hand or donate, but only when and how much and to whom I feel like it.
If you are an a-hole and ask me for money like the cretins on the streets of Seattle, the answer is f-no.
If you are my neighbor or a nice guy in the neighborhood or a nice illegal who does good work for cheap, the answer is heck yes.
Getting rid of the state safety net would have a positive and civilizing effect on the public. I think.
Posted by: Floyd Winston at August 12, 2016 08:36 PM (0CKeS)
Absolutely. And that was pretty much the case in 19th century America. Before Ellis Island, we did have open borders. There was nothing stopping anyone who could make his way here.
There was also no "social safety net" of any kind. There were plenty of immigrants who couldn't hack it here and went back to the old country.
That used to be the Libertarian Party position, but today they seen much more enthusiastic about open borders than they are about eliminating the welfare state.
I would argue you can have open borders and no welfare state. This would attract the motivated and skilled to the country.
If the state does not provide welfare, a couple interesting things happen.
The poor, unfortunate, unlucky, folks that need help - WOULD HAVE TO BE NICE. Most people are willing to lend a hand or donate, but only when and how much and to whom I feel like it.
If you are an a-hole and ask me for money like the cretins on the streets of Seattle, the answer is f-no.
If you are my neighbor or a nice guy in the neighborhood or a nice illegal who does good work for cheap, the answer is heck yes.
Getting rid of the state safety net would have a positive and civilizing effect on the public. I think.
Posted by: Floyd Winston at August 12, 2016 08:36 PM (0CKeS)
Absolutely. And that was pretty much the case in 19th century America. Before Ellis Island, we did have open borders. There was nothing stopping anyone who could make his way here.
There was also no "social safety net" of any kind. There were plenty of immigrants who couldn't hack it here and went back to the old country.
That used to be the Libertarian Party position, but today they seen much more enthusiastic about open borders than they are about eliminating the welfare state.
Posted by: rickl at August 12, 2016 08:47 PM (sdi6R)
1208
Jane, the Big Pharma-Medico Complex is again ginning up scare tactics about what's normal and what's not and what's dangerous to your health and what's normal.
They did this before a few years ago about HBP and screeched that we had to lower anything that was over 150 systolic.
Now that they've seen what a money maker doing this is they're going for even lower numbers and calling 120+ systolic as too high.
Here's the deal (and only some doctors do this on purpose some are just following the rules of their guild which put out the latest Standards Of Practices):
1) if you've got bp over 180 or so while sitting, you got a problem but a spike of 150+ has to be evaluated and can't be a mandatory diagnosis.
2) put you on HBP meds, beta blockers, calcium channel blocker, angiotensin receptor blocker, ACE inhibitors, diuretics.
3) all these work but they do have side effects and even if they don't they mess with the normal chemical balance in your body and this can result in upsets to your electrolyte balance and other stuff which can cause heart rhythm problems. which means:
4) now that they've interfered with your system, they tell you you have to have a pacemaker to regulate your heart rate. (which is true because the drugs have interfered with the body's normal way of adjusting the hearts beat rate.
5) rinse repeat.
I made them change my meds the last time they tried this. Turns out one of the beta blockers I was taking was causing too low a heart rate, arrhythmias, missed beats and coincidentally gastric reflux.
All of which cleared up when I persuaded them to change my meds but it was a fight as Doctors think that they and only they know what you need.
Any hoo, they're also coming to realize that cholesterol may not be the bad guy everyone made out for the last 20 years and that the risk of statins isn't worth the value of the so called reduction.
I'm not a physician and I didn't stay at a Marriott last night but I have lived with this body for 69 years and I try to pay attention to what it's telling me while listening the ADVICE of Doctors.
They did this before a few years ago about HBP and screeched that we had to lower anything that was over 150 systolic.
Now that they've seen what a money maker doing this is they're going for even lower numbers and calling 120+ systolic as too high.
Here's the deal (and only some doctors do this on purpose some are just following the rules of their guild which put out the latest Standards Of Practices):
1) if you've got bp over 180 or so while sitting, you got a problem but a spike of 150+ has to be evaluated and can't be a mandatory diagnosis.
2) put you on HBP meds, beta blockers, calcium channel blocker, angiotensin receptor blocker, ACE inhibitors, diuretics.
3) all these work but they do have side effects and even if they don't they mess with the normal chemical balance in your body and this can result in upsets to your electrolyte balance and other stuff which can cause heart rhythm problems. which means:
4) now that they've interfered with your system, they tell you you have to have a pacemaker to regulate your heart rate. (which is true because the drugs have interfered with the body's normal way of adjusting the hearts beat rate.
5) rinse repeat.
I made them change my meds the last time they tried this. Turns out one of the beta blockers I was taking was causing too low a heart rate, arrhythmias, missed beats and coincidentally gastric reflux.
All of which cleared up when I persuaded them to change my meds but it was a fight as Doctors think that they and only they know what you need.
Any hoo, they're also coming to realize that cholesterol may not be the bad guy everyone made out for the last 20 years and that the risk of statins isn't worth the value of the so called reduction.
I'm not a physician and I didn't stay at a Marriott last night but I have lived with this body for 69 years and I try to pay attention to what it's telling me while listening the ADVICE of Doctors.
Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That at August 12, 2016 08:48 PM (ECJ+C)
1209
Damn! Willowed.
Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That at August 12, 2016 08:49 PM (ECJ+C)
1210
The horde makes me laugh so hard I cry sometimes...
Egg drop soup
Crab rangoon
Dragon and Phoenix
Orange Beef
(The last two were melt your tongue spicy)
Egg drop soup
Crab rangoon
Dragon and Phoenix
Orange Beef
(The last two were melt your tongue spicy)
Posted by: Chi at August 12, 2016 08:49 PM (E/j+Q)
1211
I've felt our society has dumped everyone on the state welfare rolls for generations when in the past, extended families were the first line of defense.
How many stick their old parents in a retirement home paid by the state?
Nobody bats an eye that the very wealthy president BHO has/had an illegal aunt living in MA on welfare.
Just because I am employed and doing well, I really should help out those 1 degree around me instead of having the state pick up the tab.
Less state welfare and more personal welfare forces everyone to be kind to each other for a change.
How many stick their old parents in a retirement home paid by the state?
Nobody bats an eye that the very wealthy president BHO has/had an illegal aunt living in MA on welfare.
Just because I am employed and doing well, I really should help out those 1 degree around me instead of having the state pick up the tab.
Less state welfare and more personal welfare forces everyone to be kind to each other for a change.
Posted by: Floyd Winston at August 12, 2016 08:51 PM (0CKeS)
1212
Can we talk Overton Windows for a second?
I remember ace being on the other side of this argument 8 years ago. Not to restart the Palin Wars, but Palin was anti elite and peop,e responded to that, and a lot of people did not like her because she was déclassé and all that. Including our esteemed host. This is not to needle ace because I don't like to do that (often) but to show the movement of the window.
Palins anti-establishment and anti-elitist cred was much stronger than Trumps as she had up-ended a corrupt Republican machine in Alaska and she did not not go to the "best schools" and all that. And she got savaged for being anti-elitist and anti-intellectual and it was described by some (and perhaps even by ace) as anti-intelligence. Pride in stupidity.
Again, not to relight that battle, just to describe the landscape.
Now fast forward eight years and the best and brightest have been in charge and the economy sucks but is described as the best ever, Islam has nothing whatsoever with terrorism, and, oh, there really is no difference between boys and girls except something made up in your head.
Faced with that, Palin - hell, o'Donnell - doesn't seem so stupid and weird.
So, ace, welcome to the fight.
And Peggy, well. Good column maybe we have a spot for you in the steno pool.
I remember ace being on the other side of this argument 8 years ago. Not to restart the Palin Wars, but Palin was anti elite and peop,e responded to that, and a lot of people did not like her because she was déclassé and all that. Including our esteemed host. This is not to needle ace because I don't like to do that (often) but to show the movement of the window.
Palins anti-establishment and anti-elitist cred was much stronger than Trumps as she had up-ended a corrupt Republican machine in Alaska and she did not not go to the "best schools" and all that. And she got savaged for being anti-elitist and anti-intellectual and it was described by some (and perhaps even by ace) as anti-intelligence. Pride in stupidity.
Again, not to relight that battle, just to describe the landscape.
Now fast forward eight years and the best and brightest have been in charge and the economy sucks but is described as the best ever, Islam has nothing whatsoever with terrorism, and, oh, there really is no difference between boys and girls except something made up in your head.
Faced with that, Palin - hell, o'Donnell - doesn't seem so stupid and weird.
So, ace, welcome to the fight.
And Peggy, well. Good column maybe we have a spot for you in the steno pool.
Posted by: blaster at August 12, 2016 08:51 PM (ACqhm)
1213
Be gone sock
Posted by: Golfman at August 12, 2016 08:51 PM (9HX7k)
1214
hits the crossbar, goes over
Posted by: muttering vikings fan at August 12, 2016 08:52 PM (mkppl)
Posted by: dagny at August 12, 2016 08:53 PM (eSQgj)
1216
Sometimes Libertarians are people of great skill and intelligence who have made lots of money and want to do whatever the fuck they want and don't want to take "no" as an answer. They believe that because they made it anyone could. We need *some* people like that.
Sometimes Libertarians are guys with good jobs--or a trust fund-- who just want to be able to do drugs, drive fast cars, and play with guns.
We have too many like that.
The first group contributes. The second doesn't.
Sometimes Libertarians are guys with good jobs--or a trust fund-- who just want to be able to do drugs, drive fast cars, and play with guns.
We have too many like that.
The first group contributes. The second doesn't.
Posted by: JoeF. at August 12, 2016 08:53 PM (j68a9)
1217
Why, hello there!
Posted by: North American Union at August 12, 2016 08:56 PM (vBeA5)
1218
1212--I liked Palin when McCain first picked her, and yes she scared the shit out of the elites. No doubt about it. She was a real threat to everything they stood for. But if she is remembered as a joke now, it's only because she allowed herself to become one after the election. She's far from stupid, but she decided to cash in., and in a sense, she proved their point.
Posted by: JoeF. at August 12, 2016 08:57 PM (j68a9)
1219
George Washington lost just about every single battle, until he didn't.
Ballsy guy.
He shot deserters, hung spies, made a lot of tough calls.
Very easily the end of the story could have gone in favor of King George.
Ballsy guy.
He shot deserters, hung spies, made a lot of tough calls.
Very easily the end of the story could have gone in favor of King George.
Posted by: navybrat at August 12, 2016 08:58 PM (w7KSn)
1220
I do wish everyone would quit using that term "crony capitalism". First off it was invented by the liberals to somehow tar capitalism as a corrupt process. Second making laws to benefit one's "cronies" has nothing to do with capitalism. It is outright illegal corruption. So the better term is "crony corruption".
Something Obama and ALL the other Democrats excel at.
Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at August 12, 2016 05:14 PM (mpXpK)
The term "Crony Capitalism" is one of my pet peeves also: what is really on display is fascism- which is, by definition, governmental control/interference with privately-owned business. That type of economic model has invariably led to businesses making special pleadings based on personal connections (for historical examples one merely has to look to NSDP (Nazi) Germany and Fascist Italy).
Something Obama and ALL the other Democrats excel at.
Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at August 12, 2016 05:14 PM (mpXpK)
The term "Crony Capitalism" is one of my pet peeves also: what is really on display is fascism- which is, by definition, governmental control/interference with privately-owned business. That type of economic model has invariably led to businesses making special pleadings based on personal connections (for historical examples one merely has to look to NSDP (Nazi) Germany and Fascist Italy).
Posted by: Retired Buckeye Cop is now an engineer at August 12, 2016 09:04 PM (5Yee7)
Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That at August 12, 2016 09:06 PM (ECJ+C)
1222
Palin was/is deeply flawed.
And so is Trump.
I honestly think Palin could have survived had she made some better choices, I don't purely blame the media for Palin or Trump's problems. Sometimes, they simply do some really stupid shit.
Still, I'd rather either one of them called the shots over the current leaders of the GOP.
The closest thing we've had to a respectable figure on the populist right was Pat Buchanan, and he was made a pariah by both the media, GOP and Democrats over stupid shit like saying AIPAC had too much influence in foreign policy.
And so is Trump.
I honestly think Palin could have survived had she made some better choices, I don't purely blame the media for Palin or Trump's problems. Sometimes, they simply do some really stupid shit.
Still, I'd rather either one of them called the shots over the current leaders of the GOP.
The closest thing we've had to a respectable figure on the populist right was Pat Buchanan, and he was made a pariah by both the media, GOP and Democrats over stupid shit like saying AIPAC had too much influence in foreign policy.
Posted by: Julius at August 12, 2016 09:06 PM (Jzg4b)
1223
I wasn't deeply flawed.
Posted by: Mitt Romney- at August 12, 2016 09:10 PM (m3NrK)
1224
It seems to me that a lot of what's called compassion and sympathy toward the poor is, in reality, a statement of their alleged innate inferiority and laziness.
Posted by: baldilocks--the other halfrican at August 12, 2016 09:15 PM (VlyWV)
1225
Less state welfare and more personal welfare forces everyone to be kind to each other for a change.
Posted by: Floyd Winston
-----------
I think 'forces' may be the wrong word. It is only personal responsibility and morality that will cause people to care for others. Absent those, babies and elders will be left out for the hyenas.
Posted by: Floyd Winston
-----------
I think 'forces' may be the wrong word. It is only personal responsibility and morality that will cause people to care for others. Absent those, babies and elders will be left out for the hyenas.
Posted by: Lena Dunham at August 12, 2016 09:55 PM (9mTYi)
1226
Ugh. Drops Dunham sock
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at August 12, 2016 09:56 PM (9mTYi)
1227
It seems to me that a lot of what's called compassion and sympathy toward the poor is, in reality, a statement of their alleged innate inferiority and laziness.
Posted by: baldilocks
---------
The expression of those things is most often virtue signaling.
Posted by: baldilocks
---------
The expression of those things is most often virtue signaling.
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at August 12, 2016 09:57 PM (9mTYi)
1228
Late to post but I'm doing it anyway.
Chambers was reviewing "Capitalism: The inknown Ideal". Rands point was that no man (screw you SJWs) owes anyone anything. That he cannot be mandated to care about another nor can he be mandated to take care OF another (the welfare state).
This does not mean that you must NOT take care of the poor but rather you can not and should not be forced to do so. If you as an individual choose to help the poor that is all well and good as it is your decision to do so, not that of the state who wishes to mandate your help.
She later goes on to discuss "Enlighted Self-Interest" where by doing these kindnesses to others, you shall reap you benefits of the resulting behaviour.
Examply: My neighbor John has broken his leg. I am not obligated to cut john's lawn but I may choose to does as I might value his friendship or more crassly I might need a favour from John some day. But, it is my choice to do or do not.
Example: An employer may pay his people well and reward them for achieving certain goals. The employees are happy and the employer gains more productivity which in turn rewards the employer with profit. Or the employer can pay the minimum the market will allow and get the corresponding profit. The employer can not and not be forced to do the former but it may be in his own interest to do so.
Chambers was reviewing "Capitalism: The inknown Ideal". Rands point was that no man (screw you SJWs) owes anyone anything. That he cannot be mandated to care about another nor can he be mandated to take care OF another (the welfare state).
This does not mean that you must NOT take care of the poor but rather you can not and should not be forced to do so. If you as an individual choose to help the poor that is all well and good as it is your decision to do so, not that of the state who wishes to mandate your help.
She later goes on to discuss "Enlighted Self-Interest" where by doing these kindnesses to others, you shall reap you benefits of the resulting behaviour.
Examply: My neighbor John has broken his leg. I am not obligated to cut john's lawn but I may choose to does as I might value his friendship or more crassly I might need a favour from John some day. But, it is my choice to do or do not.
Example: An employer may pay his people well and reward them for achieving certain goals. The employees are happy and the employer gains more productivity which in turn rewards the employer with profit. Or the employer can pay the minimum the market will allow and get the corresponding profit. The employer can not and not be forced to do the former but it may be in his own interest to do so.
Posted by: Drill at August 12, 2016 10:21 PM (DN9jO)
1229
Ace, why should I have any sympathy for people who could provide Jerry Springer with months worth of material abut dysfunctional lives? People who have not made a good decision in their own lives in 40 years and who are steeped in venomous envy for those who have made good decisions? People who refuse to conform their lives to basic rules such as the customer and the boss is always right, so swallow your ego and do your job?
I live among the white rural underclass. I doubt that you even know members of this sorry, self defeating sub class. The only people I see who are victims havr been victimize by wishful thinking, by entertainment media fallacies and mostly heir own unending stupidity. The people with roots in the white underclass who have escaped such self defeating behavior patterns have a name for thse who haven't: Trash.
The moral preening from people like who who have eduacations and who should know better but who are now pretending to be populists because that is the political flavor of 2016 is actually pretty funny.
I live among the white rural underclass. I doubt that you even know members of this sorry, self defeating sub class. The only people I see who are victims havr been victimize by wishful thinking, by entertainment media fallacies and mostly heir own unending stupidity. The people with roots in the white underclass who have escaped such self defeating behavior patterns have a name for thse who haven't: Trash.
The moral preening from people like who who have eduacations and who should know better but who are now pretending to be populists because that is the political flavor of 2016 is actually pretty funny.
Posted by: NC Mountain Girl at August 12, 2016 11:24 PM (B2Og/)
Posted by: little bill at August 13, 2016 01:27 AM (j6qoi)
1231
buncha nonsenses..
Posted by: little bill at August 13, 2016 01:28 AM (j6qoi)
1232
day bye day...
Posted by: love is what you .... at August 13, 2016 01:30 AM (j6qoi)
1233
Just a quibble about Ace (via Chambers) viewing Rand as having no regard for the poor. Wrong. Like other libertarians, she believed that the most important thing fir ALL people is liberty. She would say that she didn't care what people did with their liberty or where their use of their liberty took them but she just meant that it wasnt for her to judge.
She tried to make this sound dramatic by calling it "selfishness," by which she only meant following your own judgment about what is most worth doing in the world, no matter how selfless it might be, in contrast to collectivism, by which she meant being coerced to act according to someone else's judgment.
Setting aside her idiosyncratic use of language, she knew and cared that liberty allows people to make the best use of their lives, and she knew that producing value as you Judge it tends to create personal prosperity. She just wasn't going to accept that as a criterion. Bad results cannot be an excuse to compromise liberty.
She tried to make this sound dramatic by calling it "selfishness," by which she only meant following your own judgment about what is most worth doing in the world, no matter how selfless it might be, in contrast to collectivism, by which she meant being coerced to act according to someone else's judgment.
Setting aside her idiosyncratic use of language, she knew and cared that liberty allows people to make the best use of their lives, and she knew that producing value as you Judge it tends to create personal prosperity. She just wasn't going to accept that as a criterion. Bad results cannot be an excuse to compromise liberty.
Posted by: Alec Rawls at August 13, 2016 02:40 AM (5z7RS)
1234
What exactly is wrong with saying"fuck the poor"?
Here in NYC, the poor are poor because they deserve it - didn't finish HS, drugs, multiple kids w/o marriage, lazy etc - pick one or more, these are root causes. They're all minorities who have no interest in seeing themselves as anything other than a victim, who refuse to "act white" even if it would mean a job and advancement. And they're ALL on the free shit bandwagon.
So yeah, fuck the poor. Right up the rear with a barbed wire baseball bat.
Here in NYC, the poor are poor because they deserve it - didn't finish HS, drugs, multiple kids w/o marriage, lazy etc - pick one or more, these are root causes. They're all minorities who have no interest in seeing themselves as anything other than a victim, who refuse to "act white" even if it would mean a job and advancement. And they're ALL on the free shit bandwagon.
So yeah, fuck the poor. Right up the rear with a barbed wire baseball bat.
Posted by: Trupy at August 13, 2016 08:17 AM (EQcBC)
1235
Once you realize that this outlook was the Status Quo for all of Europe from roughly 1100 - 1789, it will make much more sense.
A very typical attitude of the upper class, then and now, put charmingly by Frederick the Great (who ironically is still lionized as a great "German" leader)
"I speak French to my Lovers. I speak Polish to my Servants.
I speak German to my Dogs."
A very typical attitude of the upper class, then and now, put charmingly by Frederick the Great (who ironically is still lionized as a great "German" leader)
"I speak French to my Lovers. I speak Polish to my Servants.
I speak German to my Dogs."
Posted by: Tom Servo at August 13, 2016 10:10 AM (V2Yro)
1236
Just who are these transnational elites? Do their names echo throughout history?
Posted by: Jimmy Rustler at August 13, 2016 11:35 AM (7WMhp)
1237
Admit it. You had a cocktail or two when you wrote this. Not that there is anything wrong with that.
Posted by: john at August 13, 2016 11:35 AM (FC7oc)
1238
If your family have been voting D since LBJ, if your family has been in a union since 1930 something, if you moved to CA or MN or WA, and I warned you to cease this behavior OR ELSE and you didn't, I have very very very little sympathy for you if you become Poorz. I might help though, but REPENT, COME TO JEEZUS, and me dunking you in the bayou, even though I'm Catholic.
Posted by: hurricane567 at August 13, 2016 02:06 PM (QjekG)
Posted by: ethos at August 13, 2016 06:31 PM (t9c06)
1240
She's right. Donny the democrat is a fraud and throwing everyone who doesn't worship the fraud under the bus accomplishes what exactly?
An angry orgasm and then..... Hillary and Bill.
An angry orgasm and then..... Hillary and Bill.
Posted by: ethos at August 13, 2016 06:33 PM (t9c06)
Posted by: somejoe at August 14, 2016 02:19 AM (nbm9s)
1242
I have a college degree, clear over $90, 000.00, and I'm a veteran. Does that mean I get to vote twice, even though I'm a conservative?
Posted by: I was only joking my dear at August 14, 2016 07:31 AM (ev1Yh)
1243
I noticed that the elite at NR and WSJ are quick to point out the failings of the white underclass, but refuse to talk about the same failing when it comes to the black and hispanic versions. Esp when they both consume more tax benefits.
Posted by: Jimmy Rustler at August 14, 2016 02:18 PM (7WMhp)
1244
I find very little evidence that is the case; they seem to attack all welfare dependency pretty much equally, IMHO.
I feel like some of this discussion is missing the tendency among many Fusionist/Myers conservatives to basically go full Libertarian on Econ. And that is the basic assumption that leads many people to automatically reject Trump's policies. Also, I think he has poor policies, but on the border I don't think that should be an issue. Very few conservatives are well educated on Econ, either. That tends to be a solidly libertarian field, with exceptions such as Salim Furth.
I feel like some of this discussion is missing the tendency among many Fusionist/Myers conservatives to basically go full Libertarian on Econ. And that is the basic assumption that leads many people to automatically reject Trump's policies. Also, I think he has poor policies, but on the border I don't think that should be an issue. Very few conservatives are well educated on Econ, either. That tends to be a solidly libertarian field, with exceptions such as Salim Furth.
Posted by: Anymouse at August 14, 2016 04:10 PM (NyyGD)
1245
Very good commentary. Exactly sums up why so many average Americans are supporting Trump.
Transnational "conservatives" are not conservative at all - they are liberals/progressives. It is conservative to give loyalty and preference to one's family, one's hometown, one's state, one's nation, allied nations, then finally the world.
Transnational "conservatives" are not conservative at all - they are liberals/progressives. It is conservative to give loyalty and preference to one's family, one's hometown, one's state, one's nation, allied nations, then finally the world.
Posted by: GSR at August 14, 2016 04:13 PM (0WdRC)
1246
Comment #9 by allenlou - Well said.
Posted by: Frodo at August 14, 2016 05:12 PM (gFMSS)
1247
> Lately I've been seeing this hard-edged "Go fuck yourself, Poorz" Randism emanating from many quarters on the right -- from people who previously had declared themselves to be "patriotic."
No fooling. I lost any residual respect I had for National Review when they published that article by Kevin Williamson about poor whites. It struck me as the sort of mean-spiritedness I feel when I attack a wasp nest with a can of Raid.
No fooling. I lost any residual respect I had for National Review when they published that article by Kevin Williamson about poor whites. It struck me as the sort of mean-spiritedness I feel when I attack a wasp nest with a can of Raid.
Posted by: Reformed Trombonist at August 14, 2016 06:21 PM (wCAGm)
1248
"The closest thing we've had to a respectable figure on the populist right was Pat Buchanan, and he was made a pariah by both the media, GOP and Democrats over stupid shit like saying AIPAC had too much influence in foreign policy."
If anything, Buchanan has been validated multiple times on this point over the last thirty years. Hell, Bret Stephens himself has dual Israeli citizenship. Think he is going to demand open borders for Israel?
If anything, Buchanan has been validated multiple times on this point over the last thirty years. Hell, Bret Stephens himself has dual Israeli citizenship. Think he is going to demand open borders for Israel?
Posted by: Trump poisoned my cat at August 14, 2016 11:02 PM (pq97T)
1249
Barbara + Laura Bush have reminded me of Marie Antoinette for 15 years. Peggy is right. '15 - 15 are the GOP Bastille Year.
Posted by: an Ol ex Jarhead at August 15, 2016 09:13 AM (pZCCu)
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