<i>Trump Accused Immigrants of "Drug and Human Smuggling, Home Invasion, Murder"</i>

Trump Accused Immigrants of "Drug and Human Smuggling, Home Invasion, Murder"

Terrible, huh?

Pretty racist, right?

One thing: It wasn't Donald Trump who said this.

It was John McCain, when he was pretending he wanted to "build the dang fence" in his 2010 reelection campaign.

Question: Why did John McCain accusing illegal immigrants of "drug and human smuggling, home invasion, murder" not set the tongues of the Establishment wagging in horror?

After all -- this sounds a lot like Donald Trump's "outrageous" statement about illegals that lit the Establishment's hair on fire: "They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists."

Drugs, home invasion, and murder is not all that different from drugs, crime, and rape. They are, I hope some will be honest enough to acknowledge, adjacent pews in the same church.

And yet Trump's comments were disgraceful.

McCain's comments were just some savvy electioneering.

The difference, of course, is that everyone knew John McCain was lying, employing a tactic the Establishment has used so frequently over the past decades: Lying to your ignorant, uneducated doltish rube voters so you can get into office and do what you were set on this earth to do, service the corporate class.

Trump maybe seemed to mean what he said about illegals (maybe- - he might have just been imitating what he saw the Establishment doing to great success), and he was an outsider, and therefore he wasn't allowed to say the same thing.

When I asked about this on Twitter, #NeverTrumper and establishment-booster Dan McLaughlin confirmed that McCain was being treated differently because of his status within the in-group:

@AceofSpadesHQ If you are arguing that McCain in 2010 was evaluated differently because people looked at his prior record...well, yes.
— Dan McLaughlin (@baseballcrank) August 12, 2016

You know, there's a revulsion among the self-claimed "elites" (most who are not elites at all, but simply elite wannabes) about the bubbling "radical egalitarianism" they think is so dangerous in what they call "populism."

But the "radicalness" of this egalitarian impulse is open to dispute. I used to think that it was accepted conservative doctrine that people's words and actions should be judged like any other person's words and actions -- on the words and actions themselves, and not on that person's claimed status or privilege to say more provocative things that a person of a lesser caste would be allowed.

With Alec Baldwin, for example, liberals made this claim: Sure he can knock "coons" and "queers" and not catch hell over it; we know he's a liberal in good standing. He's so charming at the SNL after-parties. He simply has more Rights and Privileges than, say, Paula Dean.

He's from a higher caste than Paula Dean -- a better caste. He's just a better person, therefore his words and actions are evaluated differently from a lesser human being's.

Conservatives -- at least at that time -- objected to this vociferously, noting the entire concept of status-based rights -- where a person's actions are judged not on their own merit but in the context of the status enjoyed by that person -- were entirely antithetical to the idea of the American system, where each of us stands equal under the law (and, by extension -- each of us stands equal in the court of social censure, too).

But I do see many "conservatives" now retreating -- or running at top speed -- away from this former value of egalitarianism, now embracing large swaths of the left's status-and-credentialism system of some people just being plain better than others and ergo deserving of greater latitude in public statements and public actions and greater deference as a general matter.

The thing that I think may "conservatives" don't like about populism is the direct challenge to the privilege of the elites, or the self-vaunted elites, in any case; they have status (or they believe they have status, or should have status) and object quite emotionally to this unschooled, unshoed rabble presuming to be their equals.

I think this is where the real anger and venom is coming from -- not over free trade per se, but at the "experts'" anger that their "expert opinions" on free trade are being disregarded.

All politics is personal, as they say. And someone denying you have a social credential you thought you did (and think you've earned) is a very personal matter indeed.

I don't know what Dan McLaughlin actually meant here, and I didn't bother to ask him last night, because the implications of his claim just began to sink in for me this morning.

But I guess, now that I've chewed it over, I would like to ask: Exactly what did you mean? Trump had no statements whatsoever on Mexicans before his famous declaration at the announcement of his candidacy; so how could his prior statements reduce his status to make his claims?*

And as for John McCain -- yes, he famously fought for amnesty and strongly implied those who disagreed were racist; does that then give him status to make racist comments himself -- rather like Alec Baldwin's well-known distaste for the "homophobes" and "racists" of the GOP giving him license to make racist and homophobic remarks himself?

What, precisely, is the nature of John McCain's alleged status advantage which gives him special privilege to make comments that the establishment condemns when they're made by Donald Trump?

Is it, as I speculate, simply that the establishment knows John McCain was doing this in furtherance of his team's goals -- the establishment wants other establishment figures to win, after all; it strengthens them all -- and therefore his racist comments, filling the rubes' heads with dirty bigogry about crime-crazy Mexicans, are excusable as they advanced the Greater Good?

Or is it just that everyone knows -- everyone -- that John McCain was lying and ludicrously pandering?

And does it somehow make it less racist to say racist things you don't believe, rather than more racist?

Are people who say racist things they don't believe for their own personal advancement more virtuous than people who say things they really believe?

That seems like an extremely dubious proposition to me -- "Oh, he's not really racist; he's just cynically trafficking in racist tropes to get elected."

That's a defense now?

I guess it's as simple as This is 40 put it: Some people are Simon, and others are Garfunkles, and the Garfunkles should just learn their fuckin' place in the Simon-Garfunkle pecking order.

* Actually, a commenter points out: He did have prior statements on deportation of illegals. He called Romney's self-deportation scheme "heartless" and "insane."

Ergo, that suggests he was every bit as cynical in his appeal as McCain -- just tryin' to roll the rubes, as McCain was.

So why doesn't he get the It Doesn't Count If You're Just Tryin' to Roll the Rubes exception like McCain did?

Are we now just openly admitting we evaluate thing according to Friend of Foe recognition?

What happened to these vaunted Eternal Principles of Constant Consistency I keep hearing so much about?

Posted by: Ace at 01:13 PM

Comments

(Jump to bottom of comments)

1 first?

Posted by: huh? at August 12, 2016 01:15 PM (K8FS4)

2 It's Friday!

Posted by: Rebecca Black at August 12, 2016 01:16 PM (c1srJ)

3 Bow down to our elite leaders... They know what's best for us....

Posted by: donna at August 12, 2016 01:17 PM (O2RFr)

4 Dan McLaughlin. John is the guy on The Cadaver Group

Posted by: x at August 12, 2016 01:18 PM (nFwvY)

5 McShitty has always been an amnesty loving turd. He was the big push in the last amnesty shill before the gang of 8 bill. If it had not been for a million call-ins and the House that bill would have passed.

He has used up all of his POW credits and become a blight on Republicans. I am just sorry I stood in line in the damned rain to vote for his sorry RINO ass.

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at August 12, 2016 01:19 PM (mpXpK)

6 He dick punched an infant, too.

Posted by: Puddin Head at August 12, 2016 01:19 PM (oDCMR)

7 thanks for that photo of mcshitstain. wasn't hildebeast available? ta hell?

Posted by: chavez the hugo at August 12, 2016 01:19 PM (KP5rU)

8 The DC Uni-party, by such actions invites, John Boy Robspierre to arise and lop their heads off. For they no longer govern at the whim of the voters, they think they are princes able to lord it over the proles and serfs.

Posted by: Anna Puma at August 12, 2016 01:19 PM (LTMJL)

9 Oh, and we're all a bunch of wacko birds according to Methuselah, I mean McCain....

Posted by: donna at August 12, 2016 01:21 PM (O2RFr)

10 Of course,neither statement was racist and I refuse to concede that they were.

Posted by: steevy at August 12, 2016 01:21 PM (fA75F)

11 I interpreted Dan McLaughlin's statement as excusing "the good guy."

Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at August 12, 2016 01:21 PM (IqV8l)

12 Our "elites" are so un-American.
Status over actions.

Posted by: @votermom at August 12, 2016 01:21 PM (7lVbc)

13 John McCain has no shame. McCain doesn't care what the hoi polloi think. Romney doesn't care either. Ryan thinks he is above it all also. Ted Kennedy had more concern for his image with the little people.

Posted by: huh? at August 12, 2016 01:22 PM (K8FS4)

14 Of course,neither statement was racist and I refuse to concede that they were.

No, because both statements are true...

Posted by: donna at August 12, 2016 01:22 PM (O2RFr)

15 Didn't the MSM browbeat McCain into releasing his medical records? Where's that enthusiasm now I wonder?

Posted by: Flyguy at August 12, 2016 01:22 PM (3sOO0)

16 The DC Uni-party, by such actions invites, John Boy Robspierre to arise and lop their heads off. For they no longer govern at the whim of the voters, they think they are princes able to lord it over the proles and serfs.

"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."

John F. Kennedy, In a speech at the White House, 1962

Posted by: Mr. Peebles at August 12, 2016 01:22 PM (OkKDg)

17
Also Remember: Democrats and Hillary Clinton said Trump was a recruiter for ISIS and personally blamed Trump for a couple of attacks.

Also Remember: Democrats said repeatedly Bush was Al Qaeda's "best recruiter."

Posted by: M Magoowing Plover at August 12, 2016 01:22 PM (8PrS9)

18 I am so very sick and tired of the establishment "conservative" media looking down on us rubes from on high. Dan Bongino should remind them they're mostly just Twitter guys.

Posted by: Wyatt Earp at August 12, 2016 01:22 PM (bc7LP)

19 14 Of course,neither statement was racist and I refuse to concede that they were.

No, because both statements are true...

Posted by: donna at August 12, 2016 01:22 PM (O2RFr)

Sadly, the truth is no longer a valid defense....

Posted by: Don Q. at August 12, 2016 01:23 PM (qf6WZ)

20 Shorter McLaughlin: "McCain's a lying turd, but he's OUR lying turd."

Posted by: Mr. Peebles at August 12, 2016 01:23 PM (OkKDg)

21 15 Didn't the MSM browbeat McCain into releasing his medical records? Where's that enthusiasm now I wonder?

I read they are trying to get trumps 1990 divorce papers unsealed... Where have we seen that trick before?

Posted by: donna at August 12, 2016 01:23 PM (O2RFr)

22 And the establishment looked down on us long before Trump.

Posted by: steevy at August 12, 2016 01:24 PM (fA75F)

23 "evaluated differently" is apparently some sort of code

wonder what it means....

Posted by: Billy Occam at August 12, 2016 01:24 PM (/542q)

24 No, because both statements are true...
Posted by: donna at August 12, 2016 01:22 PM

It seems you've had a bit much to think Komrade. Please follow the signs to the nearest re-education center.

Posted by: Flyguy at August 12, 2016 01:24 PM (3sOO0)

25
Democrats Bullshit Logic #326:

There is no Islamic terrorism....BUT if there is, and there's not, it's inspired by Donald Trump.

Posted by: M Magoowing Plover at August 12, 2016 01:25 PM (8PrS9)

26 Did they also mention the formerly eradicated diseases they are bringing back into the country?

Posted by: steevy at August 12, 2016 01:25 PM (fA75F)

27 Also shorter McLaughlin: "That was just boob bait for bubbas."

Posted by: Mr. Peebles at August 12, 2016 01:25 PM (OkKDg)

28 *sigh..... more 'journalism'....

OT - Ace - Any new podcasts???

Posted by: Ibin Pharteen at August 12, 2016 01:25 PM (67aEn)

29 Who is the grey haired screwball there?
Maverick is his name
Riding the trail of gaining votes
Bullshit's his companion
And bullshit is his game

Meine Gott in Himmel. I mean between him and Cindy and Budweiser, they've got more money than they know what to do with. Can't he just hang it up and go home to one of his/her mansions?
Don't these people ever quit?

And George Voinovich is dead. That's the only way these guys ever quit politics.

Posted by: Bossy Conservative...pondering the future at August 12, 2016 01:25 PM (S6Pax)

30 If Hillary wins, I will thereafter only vote for shits and giggles, i.e. to destroy what is left of the wretched GOP.

Posted by: Reggie1971 at August 12, 2016 01:25 PM (DDM7c)

31 Mc Lughlin and his buddies will be so shocked when their buddies in Hillary's camp will be handing them their blindfolds and lining them up against the wall.

Posted by: rd at August 12, 2016 01:26 PM (7hRS/)

32 Wow...it's full of content...

Posted by: RedMindBlueState at August 12, 2016 01:26 PM (bzd8I)

33 Can we agree that Mexican isn't a race - its a nationality. Once there, can we then agree being pro-American as an American is the same as being pro-Mexican as a Mexican? We used to settle these natural disputes by having things known as borders.

Posted by: Puddin Head at August 12, 2016 01:26 PM (oDCMR)

34 I don't think Trump said anything wrong, as he was telling a truth many don't want to hear and that's nearly always good.

But, he stepped in it by singling out Mexicans, saying "Mexico isn't sending their best people..." If he'd stuck with bashing (telling the truth about) illegals, then we'd have a better test of this theory.

Posted by: spongeworthy at August 12, 2016 01:26 PM (mrfTe)

35 self-appointed elites, the best kind

Posted by: runner at August 12, 2016 01:27 PM (c6/9Q)

36 The thing that I think may "conservatives" don't like about populism
is the direct challenge to the privilege of the elites, or the
self-vaunted elites, in any case; they have status (or they believe they
have status, or should have status) and object quite emotionally to
this unschooled, unshoed rabble presuming to be their equals.

Lots of truth here, but all to often, populism degenerates into "I hate you because you're educated and accomplished, therefore I'll dismiss your arguments and call you names, even if it's to my detriment."

It works both ways.

Posted by: pep at August 12, 2016 01:27 PM (LAe3v)

37 it's conscience all the way down....

Posted by: nckate at August 12, 2016 01:27 PM (968UG)

38 I find it hilarious that the party of Andrew Jackson puts on such airs.

Populism is Americanism--it is only through the derision of the elite that we're to the instinct that is is somehow "bad."

See, it should be a point of honor that the educated of the world are embarrassed by us--they have never accomplished near the standard of living for the masses that we pulled off in less than 100 years.

Instead, too damned many now seek the praise of those who wouldn't piss on you if you were on fire.

Remember when we used to be proud of the fact that our scrappy, "poorly educated" men whipped the whole world in not one, not two but three wars?

Posted by: RoyalOil at August 12, 2016 01:27 PM (77emZ)

39 Trump' s big sin is being a class traitor.
He's supposed to be siding with rich cronies.

Posted by: @votermom at August 12, 2016 01:27 PM (7lVbc)

40 I read they are trying to get trumps 1990 divorce papers unsealed... Where have we seen that trick before?

Posted by: donna

Wait a minute. It will come to me. Some Senate race in Illinois.....snap, who was that?

Posted by: Bossy Conservative...pondering the future at August 12, 2016 01:27 PM (S6Pax)

41 30 If Hillary wins, I will thereafter only vote for shits and giggles, i.e. to destroy what is left of the wretched GOP.
-----------------
Same here, but only to hear the lamentations of the National Review and Weekly Standard. Spit.

Posted by: Puddin Head at August 12, 2016 01:28 PM (oDCMR)

42 >>>28 *sigh..... more 'journalism'....

OT - Ace - Any new podcasts???
Posted by: Ibin Pharteen

not yet but soon.

I had a guest two weeks ago but i had to cancel because I was under the weather. but I'll get her back.

I do believe you'll like her a great deal.

Posted by: ace at August 12, 2016 01:28 PM (dciA+)

43 That seems like an extremely dubious proposition to me -- "Oh, he's not really racist; he's just cynically trafficking in racist tropes to get elected."

Hey, remember how Obama campaigned as a moderate, saying things he didn't believe about traditional marriage and whatnot, while his voters knew he was just pandering to the rubes?

Same thing.

Posted by: Lance McCormick at August 12, 2016 01:28 PM (u0s1P)

44
BTW - for those unfamiliar with Dan McLaughlin's work, he's the fellow who wrote -- literally -- well over 100,000 words this Spring proving, with Math!, that Marco Rubio was winning the race. In fact, that he had already won. Was writing that right up until the day Marco pulled the plug.

So, of course after that debacle, he left blogging and Red State, and got hired on staff by National Review. Because he's -- useful.

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at August 12, 2016 01:28 PM (kdS6q)

45 Are people who say racist things they don't believe for their own personal advancement more virtuous than people who say things they really believe?

No, they're actually less virtuous, because although taking one for the team is considered virtuous, that end is not justified by the means (lying and deceiving people as to your true position).

Is this hard? I thought this was pretty basic.

Posted by: Hurricane LaFawnduh at August 12, 2016 01:28 PM (laMCB)

46 Not only personal statements but also personal actions (including criminal actions) are excused if the actor in question is part of the political in-group. Only if someone becomes a clear political liability are they thrown under the bus, to become "old news" and forgotten as swiftly as possible.

This is the same type of reasoning that led journalist Nina Burleigh to say of Bill Clinton "I would be happy to give him a blowjob just to thank him for keeping
abortion legal. I think American women should be lining up with their
presidential kneepads on to show their gratitude for keeping the
theocracy off our backs." and led Gloria Steinem to adopt the "one free grope" rule.

Posted by: My Ridiculously Circuitous Plan at August 12, 2016 01:28 PM (EIB5Y)

47 Vox Day coined the term "midwits" to describe people of middling above-average IQ (115-120, a large cohort) who ape what they imagine to be high-status "intellectual" positions on topics like global warming or evolution in an attempt to be considered smarter than they are. Something similar might be going on here, with all these mid-status personalities on Twitter and the blogosphere trying desperately to be included in the GOP Smart Set.

Posted by: Murray at August 12, 2016 01:29 PM (lnL+g)

48 >>>
But, he stepped in it by singling out Mexicans, saying "Mexico isn't sending their best people..." If he'd stuck with bashing (telling the truth about) illegals, then we'd have a better test of this theory.

dude, mccain's ad was filmed as he paced along the MEXICAN border. Who the fuck do you think he was talking about?

Posted by: ace at August 12, 2016 01:29 PM (dciA+)

49
Just a reminder for Arizona Morons to get out and vote for Kelli Ward. Early voting is already in progress and I believe the primary is on August 30th.

Kick McStains the hell out.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at August 12, 2016 01:29 PM (9P3OG)

50 I'm beginning to think that maybe this whole "racism" thing is just a tool to silence individuals and cow the collective.

Posted by: at at at at at August 12, 2016 01:29 PM (ufqQY)

51
I do believe you'll like her a great deal.

Posted by: ace

Cake Girl? Please say it was Cake Girl.

Posted by: Bossy Conservative...pondering the future at August 12, 2016 01:29 PM (S6Pax)

52 Trump Accused Immigrants of "Drug and Human Smuggling, Home Invasion, Murder"

Whoever said it -- Trump, McCain, me -- I thought the truth was an absolute defense.

Posted by: Qoheleth at August 12, 2016 01:30 PM (iIzG7)

53 33 Can we agree that Mexican isn't a race - its a nationality. Once there, can we then agree being pro-American as an American is the same as being pro-Mexican as a Mexican? We used to settle these natural disputes by having things known as borders.

Settled them once at San Jacinto.

Posted by: rickb223 TEXIT at August 12, 2016 01:30 PM (UYkjZ)

54 "we'd have a better test of his theory"

that's some funny sh*t right there, man. Yeah, the MSM is all about testing theories. Not ruining people; no, that's not what they do at all, never............

Posted by: Billy Occam at August 12, 2016 01:30 PM (/542q)

55 >>>Vox Day coined the term "midwits" to describe people of middling above-average IQ (115-120, a large cohort) who ape what they imagine to be high-status "intellectual" positions on topics like global warming or evolution in an attempt to be considered smarter than they are.

it's an old concept. I've knocked the 'middlebrows" myself (the usual word for it -- another word is "midcult," though this usually describes the sort of middle-of-the-road entertainments favored by Middlebrows, the Oprah books of the month, etc.)

Posted by: ace at August 12, 2016 01:30 PM (dciA+)

56 I'm actually optimistic about the tone of the blog. Not many will remember anything I comment on here, but for some time I've been arguing that we need to change the way we think about things. We need to up our game with the way we think about things, because thinking the way we're told we should think through group think and propaganda, is what has gotten us here.

The last two posts - and many recent posts, for that matter - are pretty clearly suggesting, I think, that Ace is taking it to the next level.

I have a philosophy that if we are going to spend our time thinking about something, that thing then deserves our most profound consideration, because if not, what ever conclusion we reach from our superficial consideration is likely not the truth.

This, for me, is awesome. It is awesome not only from the basis of the posts themselves, but also from many of the comments.

We keep this up and, in the words of the song, "We won't be fooled again!"

Posted by: Mr Macca Bean at August 12, 2016 01:30 PM (4ng05)

57 So was it the physical material the "border" was to be made of the offensive part for so many?

A wall is made of bricks whereas a fence is made of galvanized steel wire.

Had Trump said "we'll build a FENCE and Mexico will pay for it" and the Establishment would have swooned?

Posted by: Maritime at August 12, 2016 01:31 PM (u2zpL)

58 Cake Girl? Please say it was Cake Girl.
Posted by: Bossy Conservative...pondering the future at August 12, 2016 01:29 PM (S6Pax)

Caitlyn Transjenner

Posted by: @votermom at August 12, 2016 01:31 PM (7lVbc)

59 Wait until Ace figures out that we're not going to be able to vote our way out of this.

THAT will be one hell of a movie review.

Posted by: ScoggDog at August 12, 2016 01:32 PM (vM/v3)

60 58 Cake Girl? Please say it was Cake Girl.
Posted by: Bossy Conservative...pondering the future at August 12, 2016 01:29 PM (S6Pax)

Caitlyn Transjenner

Hope Solo?

Posted by: donna at August 12, 2016 01:32 PM (O2RFr)

61 We keep this up and, in the words of the song, "We won't be fooled again!"
Posted by: Mr Macca Bean at August 12, 2016 01:30 PM (4ng05)

But we are still being sold out but the establishment

Posted by: Nevergiveup at August 12, 2016 01:32 PM (Ozsfq)

62 Eh. So what. McCain would have been excoriated in the national media too if he'd said that in a Presidential campaign.

And yes, it matters that McCain has a history of not being a nutcase. Donald has a short history of saying ridiculous and horrible and crazy things about everyone, including McCain himself.

Posted by: TallDave at August 12, 2016 01:32 PM (74ZYB)

63
Trump "stepped in" what, exactly? Some made-up bullshit rule created by Leftists on speech code about Mexicans?

Thou Shalt Not Talk Ill Of Mexicans No Matter What Some Mexicans Do

Fick that, bro.

Posted by: M Magoowing Plover at August 12, 2016 01:32 PM (8PrS9)

64 Probably not going to be Pam Geller on the podcast...

Posted by: steevy at August 12, 2016 01:32 PM (fA75F)

65 Just a reminder for Arizona Morons to get out and vote for Kelli Ward. Early voting is already in progress and I believe the primary is on August 30th.

Kick McStains the hell out.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton

AZ voter here and I'm voting Kelli Ward.

My guess is within a few days of the primary results, McCain will be anti-Trump 24/7.

Posted by: Maritime at August 12, 2016 01:33 PM (u2zpL)

66 So was it the physical material the "border" was to be made of the offensive part for so many?

A wall is made of bricks whereas a fence is made of galvanized steel wire.

Had Trump said "we'll build a FENCE and Mexico will pay for it" and the Establishment would have swooned?

Harder to electrify a wall.

Posted by: rickb223 TEXIT at August 12, 2016 01:33 PM (UYkjZ)

67 I've never understood why saying things like "well we can't hold latinos or blacks to the same standards" is not the truly racist position. Well it IS the truly racist position, what I don't understand is how public opinion was so easily moved to believing that different standards based on race/ethnicity was not only "fair" but also not a racist proposition.

Posted by: Palerider at August 12, 2016 01:33 PM (dkExz)

68 A whole bunch of economic position papers extolling the ability of the market to make wiser choices than any individual or small group will have to be memory-holed now that the market isn't buying their shit anymore.

Posted by: Emmett Milbarge at August 12, 2016 01:33 PM (nFdGS)

69 Hmm, my definition of populism is the people voting themselves goodies at the expense of their fellow citizens.

The populist appeal of Trump is his liberalism ("Keep your government hands off my Medicare!).

The "conservative" appeal of Trump is his nationalism, expressed by his (occasional) anti-immigration positions and his fondness for protectionism.

Posted by: Hurricane LaFawnduh at August 12, 2016 01:34 PM (laMCB)

70 I'll tell you what. Right now I am enjoying a giant, juicy , dripping hate-burger. I've also bought a large supply so I can eat them through the election.

I will be enjoying them at the expense of people like Dan and the others who have lost any semblance of credibility in this election.

You see, these are the people who urged us on to vote for candidates like McCain and Romney even after their preferred candidates were beaten in the last election. You know, for the good of the party.

But this time it's different. Somehow defeating Trump and electing Hillary is the moral high ground or something. There is no real difference with Trump, other than he's an outsider, not a politician. His statements while often bombastic, are not really all that different. In fact one might find some refreshing.

What's different is he is attacking the parties sacred cows, which the never trumpers don't like. Even though they say they do.

You know, the people they were calling the "Establishment" a year ago sure look a lot like them.

If Trump loses this election, I'll be taking out the hate burgers by the half dozen. Because I will never, for the rest of my life vote for any of the so-called conservative choices. Because when it was on the line, they proved what cowards they are.

They should just admit they will elect Hillary. At least then, they would be an enemy I could respect.

Posted by: Marcus T at August 12, 2016 01:34 PM (MktOj)

71 Also I was looking at the previous thread and realizing that universities are exactly how Democrats intend to get the banks to pay for their "civilian security force that is just as strong, just as well funded as the military".

Whatever happened to that anyway? We all know that's the plan and what their job will be. Right?

Posted by: at at at at at August 12, 2016 01:34 PM (ufqQY)

72 SCORE

Alex Morgan

1-1

Posted by: Nevergiveup at August 12, 2016 01:34 PM (Ozsfq)

73 Second look at This is 40?

I swear, I tried watching that movie, got about 20 minutes in and couldn't stand it. But the Simon and Garfunkel bit is actually funny. Stupid, but funny.

Posted by: BurtTC at August 12, 2016 01:34 PM (TOk1P)

74 Ooo, Wall O' Words - love this -

glad it is lunchtime so's I can read it all.

Posted by: PonyTail at August 12, 2016 01:34 PM (Za6CI)

75 Ugh.

Trump is going to lose. Trump is going to lose because he's an idiot and half of you bought into the build a wall bullshit.

He just said he doesn't even care if he loses.

So, Hillary is awful. She is. If I lived in a swing state I'd have to wrestle with my conscience about my vote, but I know my vote doesn't count.

Half of you voted for a lifelong liberal and now we're supposed to swallow it because he isn't Hillary?

I didn't sign up for this.

Posted by: Bandersnatch at August 12, 2016 01:34 PM (mgbwf)

76 The people OUTRAGED over Trump's statements were applauding McCain's, because they thought it would fool the untermenschen and they'd vote for McCain.

Now, they're the same elites who are NeverTrump.

This is the same class division in the party you've talked about before, Ace.

Posted by: Mr. Peebles at August 12, 2016 01:34 PM (OkKDg)

77 So we know that the media will now be fact-checking Donald Trump and broadcasting across the country that "Not all immigrants are drug and human smugglers, murderers, and home invaders."

And the message goes out again.

(Trump really is driving them hard.)

Posted by: *Mikey NTH - Know Your Place! The Outrage Outlet has Official DNC Oppression Hierarchy Cards! at August 12, 2016 01:34 PM (hLRSq)

78 SCORE

Alex Morgan

1-1

Posted by: Nevergiveup at August 12, 2016 01:34 PM (Ozsfq)

Aye Caramba!

Posted by: Jesus Sweden at August 12, 2016 01:35 PM (TOk1P)

79 "it's an old concept. I've knocked the 'middlebrows" myself (the usual word for it -- another word is "midcult," though this usually describes the sort of middle-of-the-road entertainments favored by Middlebrows, the Oprah books of the month, etc.) "

Yeah, but "middlebrow" is a neutral-to-favorable term, describing the majority of people. "Midwit" connotes a particular type of obnoxious aspirational status-signalling that goes hand in hand with looking down on the less enlightened.

Posted by: Murray at August 12, 2016 01:35 PM (lnL+g)

80 Don't remember which moron suggested it, but as retribution to the #NeverTrump elite -- who can't fathom a further fvckload of shit raining down on us -- perhaps the proper response is #OnlyTrump.

Hang them out to dry, like a soiled pair of underwear heading for the rag pile.

I think it makes sense.

Posted by: free range 'sorta' conservative but not 'true' conservative at August 12, 2016 01:35 PM (ZnIt3)

81 So, this is a crazy theory, but who knows?

McCain is part of the New World Order; so are many RINOs. Hillary is, as are the rest of the Democrats.

Their goal is chaos. What better way than to bring in MILLIONS of dangerous Muslims and Mexican gang bangers?

Look at Germany. Sweden. France. They are imploding.

The solution there: Police State.

What will be the solution here: the same Police State. Total control by the government. And the proles/ libtards will be begging for it-- "We are weak and frightened, save us Big Government, we'll do whatever you want."

Got a better theory?

Posted by: shibumi who now just wants to yell at stupid people at August 12, 2016 01:35 PM (tvyXw)

82 "Who the fuck do you think he was talking about?"

I think he was talking about illegals. Because you can say that about illegals without singling out any particular race or nationality. Even if someone jumped up his ass (not likely) for his comments, he could fall back on the fact that all kinds of people are crossing at the Mexican border. And that he loves his Mexicans friends.

Can we please not act like it doesn't matter how we say things?

Posted by: spongeworthy at August 12, 2016 01:36 PM (mrfTe)

83 Hope Solo?

Posted by: donna at August 12, 2016 01:32 PM

Did I miss a meme somewhere?

Posted by: RedMindBlueState at August 12, 2016 01:36 PM (bzd8I)

84 Whether you like it or not, the way things are said and presented make a huge difference even if they mean the exact same thing. The way Trump says things has never personally bothered me but I understand that it can have an adverse effect for others. It's more about Trumps inconsistency in his statements and positions for me.

Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck at August 12, 2016 01:36 PM (+P27u)

85 Trump is going to lose. Trump is going to lose because he's an idiot and half of you bought into the build a wall bullshit.

He just said he doesn't even care if he loses.

So, Hillary is awful. She is. If I lived in a swing state I'd have to wrestle with my conscience about my vote, but I know my vote doesn't count.

Half of you voted for a lifelong liberal and now we're supposed to swallow it because he isn't Hillary?

I didn't sign up for this.
Posted by: Bandersnatch at August 12, 2016 01:34 PM (mgbwf)

A) Congress actually voted for a Wall-no funds- but a wall

B) He did NOT say he does not care if he loses- Jesus get real

C) And what did you sign up for? I must have missed that memo?

Posted by: Nevergiveup at August 12, 2016 01:36 PM (Ozsfq)

86 I'll just watch videos since the nuclear poo flinging has commenced.

https://youtu.be/-dVK6W4eOmg

Or get ready for work.

Posted by: Anna Puma at August 12, 2016 01:37 PM (LTMJL)

87 #57 - Maitime "So was it the physical material the "border" was to be made of the offensive part for so many?

A wall is made of bricks whereas a fence is made of galvanized steel wire.

Had Trump said "we'll build a FENCE and Mexico will pay for it" and the Establishment would have swooned?"

Mine would be much simpler - cleared dead space, robo-MG turrets, FACSCAM used 'liberally', and 'Soon to be Graduated' USMC teams doing their 2week patrol exams.

If you make it thru all that, you're the kind of soul we're looking for!

Posted by: Ibin Pharteen at August 12, 2016 01:37 PM (67aEn)

88 >>Did I miss a meme somewhere?

One could say there is a gaping hole in your Meme library.

Posted by: garrett at August 12, 2016 01:37 PM (c1srJ)

89 83 There is a gaping hole in your knowledge.

Posted by: steevy at August 12, 2016 01:37 PM (fA75F)

90 SCORE

Alex Morgan

1-1

Posted by: Nevergiveup at August 12, 2016 01:34 PM (Ozsfq)

Aye Caramba!
Posted by: Jesus Sweden

So it's now Juan to Juan?

Posted by: rickb223 TEXIT at August 12, 2016 01:37 PM (UYkjZ)

91 >>>
I swear, I tried watching that movie, got about 20 minutes in and couldn't stand it. But the Simon and Garfunkel bit is actually funny. Stupid, but funny.

i like the movie a lot, though it meanders. I guess I like it because it meanders -- there is no big plot, and nothing is really fixed at the end, because nothing really gets fixed in life.

Leslie Mann is a scream.

Posted by: ace at August 12, 2016 01:37 PM (dciA+)

92
. If I lived in a swing state I'd have to wrestle with my conscience about my vote, but I know my vote doesn't count.

Please elaborate.

btw, your vote does matter in the popular vote total

Posted by: M Magoowing Plover at August 12, 2016 01:37 PM (8PrS9)

93 But we are still being sold out but the establishment
Posted by: Nevergiveup at August 12, 2016 01:32 PM (Ozsfq)

Yeah, well, that's a given, I suppose.

Posted by: Mr Macca Bean at August 12, 2016 01:37 PM (4ng05)

94 The difference, of course, is that everyone knew John McCain was lying,

McShame wasn't lying. He only thought he was lying ... but he was actually telling the truth.

Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at August 12, 2016 01:37 PM (zc3Db)

95 It's more about Trumps inconsistency in his statements and positions for me.
--
Yes, he is inconsistent.

However... the MEDIA hates him with the white hot heat of a million suns.

So do the DEMOCRATS.

So do most REPUBLICANS.

That to me makes him the only choice in the election.

Trump might be able to help this nation.

Hillary will NOT.

Posted by: shibumi who now just wants to yell at stupid people at August 12, 2016 01:38 PM (tvyXw)

96 9 minutes plus injury time left

Posted by: Nevergiveup at August 12, 2016 01:38 PM (Ozsfq)

97 Courage.

Posted by: Dan Rather: I Matter at August 12, 2016 01:38 PM (FXW24)

98 There's a fantastic scene where Rudd and Mann are going to have sex for the first time in months and their daughters will not stop pounding on the door to whine about one taking the other's stuffed animal and their exasperation and anger at being denied this ONE chance to have sex is fucking hilarious as hell

Posted by: ace at August 12, 2016 01:38 PM (dciA+)

99 That seems like an extremely dubious proposition to me -- "Oh, he's not really racist; he's just cynically trafficking in racist tropes to get elected."

Worked for Obama, twice.

As you have often said and it gets repeated a lot around here; We Live in Stupid Times.

Posted by: Puddleglum is on vacation, Weeeee at August 12, 2016 01:38 PM (rJxzw)

100 And yes, it matters that McCain has a history of not being a nutcase. Donald has a short history of saying ridiculous and horrible and crazy things about everyone, including McCain
-----------
And yet if he was running as a D against Cruz or whatever, none of that would matter to the elites. Like magic!!!! That Crazy Uncle Don!!!!!!! Champion of Wimmenz!!!!!

Posted by: at at at at at August 12, 2016 01:38 PM (ufqQY)

101 84 Whether you like it or not, the way things are said and presented make a huge difference even if they mean the exact same thing. The way Trump says things has never personally bothered me but I understand that it can have an adverse effect for others. It's more about Trumps inconsistency in his statements and positions for me.

Yes Trump opens mouth and inserts foot all the time... The thing is if He were to even say ""The earth is round." The media would argue he was wrong... So I guess it really doesn't matter what he says in the long run...

Posted by: donna at August 12, 2016 01:38 PM (O2RFr)

102 Ok for McCain - he is on the approved list. Trump is not on the approved list - he just won't listen to their wisdom, and take their foreign policy advice.

They may be succeeding (and by "they" I mean the weekly standard clique,
headed by William Kristol, who according to people of substance, never
published an essay of intellectual significance) in intimidating some
weaklings to abandon the party nominee. The rubes just did not know
what they were doing in sending Trump to washington to start cleaning
those Augean stables.

Posted by: runner at August 12, 2016 01:38 PM (c6/9Q)

103 Ace,

What you point out is undoubtedly true, that there is a serious issue with an unspoken caste system in this country and that from it is born a disgusting hypocrisy in everything we judge today. As you say, if Baldwin calls someone a faggot, it's no big deal. If you called someone a faggot, you'd be run out of town by pitchforks by the left's stormtroopers - the SJW shriekers.

But I think you're missing one big angle here. It's not the caste system or hypocrisy that's putting the flames to the typical American voter and driving Trump's populist movement.

It's a two-fer of: the people in charge completely avoiding the reality of our countries real problems (debt, security, jobs, attacks on constitutionalism, stagnet wages, illegal immigration, etc.) AND these so called leaders inability to see that there is a problem (or possibly their flagrant disinterest in actually fixing anything).

We;'re screaming about the overdrawn checkbook and the horrible economy and our leaders are doing everything they can to spend more and drive away as much business as they can. They won't listen. They won't even try and fix what we send them there to fix.

Do they do that because they think we're idiots? Do they do that because they want the country to fall to pieces? Who knows which is the right answer. But they are doing it.

I don't give a flying fuck who gets invited to special parties or who is considered 'smart class'. I give a big fuck about our actual, real problems getting the silent treatment by every single asshole who gets sent to Washington. People are frustrated as hell that we keep paying someone to paint the house and those people we pay keep telling us the how doesn't need painted. Problem is, we can easily see it does.

I can turn off the news and ignore the idiots that CNN and Fox pay to flap their lips. I cannot ignore Social Security going insolvent, illegals flooding our country, a stagnate wage, scare jobs, rising food prices and a destructive Wall Street banking industry.

Posted by: AlaBAMA at August 12, 2016 01:38 PM (2PHKP)

104 "Fick that, bro."

Pretty sure I was clear in saying I had no problem with Trump's assessment.

Posted by: spongeworthy at August 12, 2016 01:38 PM (mrfTe)

105 Posted by: shibumi who now just wants to yell at stupid people at August 12, 2016 01:35 PM (tvyXw)

You're pretty much on the money. The chaos that importing 3rd world terrorists creates gives them excuse to turn the ratchet in favor of tyranny, possibly declare martial law, and what I'm predicting "we're suspending elections for the duration of the crisis". I've had the theory that Obama is just waiting for a pretext, and does not intend to let there actually be an election this year.

We'll see.

Posted by: Cato the Rebel Without a Party at August 12, 2016 01:39 PM (HalrA)

106 No discussion of our Beltway Aristocracy would be complete without this:
https://youtu.be/vOsHoqhbUIU

Posted by: Prince Ludwig the #Problematic at August 12, 2016 01:39 PM (07Q15)

107 And yes, it matters that McCain has a history of not being a nutcase. Donald has a short history of saying ridiculous and horrible and crazy things about everyone, including McCain himself.

Posted by: TallDave at August 12, 2016 01:32 PM (74ZYB)

Bomb, bomb, bomb,
Bomb, bomb Iran

Posted by: Emmett Milbarge at August 12, 2016 01:39 PM (nFdGS)

108 >>That seems like an extremely dubious proposition to me -- "Oh, he's not really racist; he's just cynically trafficking in racist tropes to get elected."

I think it's that "the people are dumb, so we have to say the things that the dumb people respond to --- even if you and I know it's bunk --- because it's important to win and then do what's best".

It is the condescension of the elites. People are too stupid to understand these complex issues.

Posted by: Lizzy at August 12, 2016 01:39 PM (NOIQH)

109
Can we please not act like it doesn't matter how we say things?

Yes, to sensitive tween girls, especially.

To grown ups, it shouldnt.

Posted by: M Magoowing Plover at August 12, 2016 01:40 PM (8PrS9)

110
What will be the solution here: the same Police State. Total control by the government. And the proles/ libtards will be begging for it-- "We are weak and frightened, save us Big Government, we'll do whatever you want."

Got a better theory?

Posted by: shibumi who now just wants to yell at stupid people at August 12, 2016 01:35 PM (tvyXw)

Not a better theory, but a slightly different view: the Elites are gonna be safely behind their walls of protection, and the rest of us will be wallowing in the chaos.

So they don't care. They looked at the future, saw the place to build the wall was NOT at the border, but at the gates of their own Super Communities. Their armed guards, dogs, and zapper fences will keep the riff raff out. And you? Well, you're either riff or raff, so screw you.

Posted by: BurtTC at August 12, 2016 01:40 PM (TOk1P)

111 To the point of the post, part of the Trump revolt is that most middle-class Americans reject class divisions, whereas the lower and upper classes are very aware of it. And the middle classes who are still left do very much resent being lorded over by twits who've never fixed a toilet.

Way back when, egalitarianism was reinforced when most Americans attended church, where a doctor might sit next to a pipefitter.

Posted by: Hurricane LaFawnduh at August 12, 2016 01:40 PM (laMCB)

112
In before the First Time Commenter First Name Guy!

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at August 12, 2016 01:40 PM (xxSK3)

113 Shit great opportunity. no goal

Posted by: Nevergiveup at August 12, 2016 01:40 PM (Ozsfq)

114 You're pretty much on the money. The chaos that importing 3rd world
terrorists creates gives them excuse to turn the ratchet in favor of
tyranny, possibly declare martial law, and what I'm predicting "we're
suspending elections for the duration of the crisis". I've had the
theory that Obama is just waiting for a pretext, and does not intend to
let there actually be an election this year.
---

I'm thinking more long term, like Orwell:

A boot on the neck of America forever.

While the elites eat their cake and drink champagne.

Posted by: shibumi who now just wants to yell at stupid people at August 12, 2016 01:41 PM (tvyXw)

115
Man, was that ever a thing a couple of years ago:

SEN. SUSAN COLLINS, R-MAINE:

"While the northern border does not have as many problems as the southern border, it is vulnerable nonetheless to illegal crossers, including individuals seeking to illegally come to this country; criminals trafficking in humans and drugs; and potentially terrorists."

SEN. JOSEPH I. LIEBERMAN HOLDS A HEARING ON THE HOMELAND SECURITY BUDGET
Political Transcript Wire 17 Feb 2011.

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at August 12, 2016 01:41 PM (kdS6q)

116 99 That seems like an extremely dubious proposition to me -- "Oh, he's not really racist; he's just cynically trafficking in racist tropes to get elected."

Worked for Obama, twice.

As you have often said and it gets repeated a lot around here; We Live in Stupid Times.
Posted by: Puddleglum

Works for La Raza and #BLM

Posted by: rickb223 TEXIT at August 12, 2016 01:41 PM (UYkjZ)

117 Ace -- McCain was allowed to say that because:

1. We had neither the Senate or House at that point, so GOPe did not sweat it, and:

2. He's a war hero.

Now that we have both, and very, very likely to keep at least the House in a worst case scenario, #1 doesn't apply anymore to anyone. Even if it was said by McCain now, I think some folks would demur slightly and move on to the next topic.

Posted by: Steve_in_SoCal at August 12, 2016 01:41 PM (bB4HN)

118 And yes, it matters that McCain has a history of not being a nutcase. Donald has a short history of saying ridiculous and horrible and crazy things about everyone, including McCain himself.

Posted by: TallDave

We need to arm the moderate Syrian Rebels...
and we have nothing to fear from an Obama presidency.

Posted by: John McCain at August 12, 2016 01:41 PM (07Q15)

119 108 >>That seems like an extremely dubious proposition to me -- "Oh, he's not really racist; he's just cynically trafficking in racist tropes to get elected."

Who determines what's racist? I mean we just had a thread about a student being sent to "Sensitivity" training for saying All lives matter... Fuck this...

Posted by: donna at August 12, 2016 01:41 PM (O2RFr)

120 America is putting great pressure on Sweden

Posted by: Nevergiveup at August 12, 2016 01:42 PM (Ozsfq)

121 "... the left's stormtroopers - the SJW shriekers..."

On a related subject that the Horde will enjoy, Stephen Fry has a new show on the telly called "The Great Indoors." Millennials are protesting that the show portrays their generation as being easily offended, thin-skinned and whiny. They are protesting... by being easily offended, thin-skinned, and whiny.

Posted by: Qoheleth at August 12, 2016 01:42 PM (iIzG7)

122 John McCain is too old and senile to be held accountable for what he says.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at August 12, 2016 01:42 PM (8ZskC)

123 Trump is going to lose.
---
Clinton +1 in latest LA Times poll. So yeah, defeat is certainly certain.

Posted by: Methos, AoSHQ commenter since 2006, now apperently nonvoting democrat at August 12, 2016 01:42 PM (3Liv/)

124 Donald has a short history of saying ridiculous and horrible and crazy things about everyone, including McCain himself.

Posted by: TallDave

Puh-leeeease.

Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at August 12, 2016 01:43 PM (zc3Db)

125 Primary sin - Pride.

Original. Its the one that always takes you down. Not that the others aren't a problem.

Posted by: simplemind at August 12, 2016 01:43 PM (JTwsP)

126 @70

Exactly!

Posted by: Deaf Smith at August 12, 2016 01:43 PM (FkwUD)

127 It is the condescension of the elites. People are too stupid to understand these complex issues.

Posted by: Lizzy at August 12, 2016 01:39 PM (NOIQH)

P.J. O'Rourke once said that beyond a certain point, complexity is fraud. I think our government is proving him right on a daily basis. They complicate the obvious, so they can try to claim that only they have the special ability figure out the best way forward.

It's all a pile of buffalo chips. Most of the problems facing us have simple solutions. Reagan knew that and articulated it well, and it hasn't changed. Simple does not mean easy, and it will take work and sweat to solve them, but they can be solved by straightforward approaches.

Our government is gaslighting us and robbing us blind.

Posted by: Cato the Rebel Without a Party at August 12, 2016 01:43 PM (HalrA)

128 You have nothing to fear from butt stuff, my friendsh.

Posted by: Senor Juan McCain at August 12, 2016 01:43 PM (vtcmf)

129 A) Congress actually voted for a Wall-no funds- but a wall B) He did NOT say he does not care if he loses- Jesus get real C) And what did you sign up for? I must have missed that memo?
Posted by: Nevergiveup at August 12, 2016 01:36 PM (Ozsfq) I've always liked that Nevergiveup fellow. Now more than ever!

Posted by: DJ Jazzy Mel at August 12, 2016 01:43 PM (22uju)

130 It is the condescension of the elites. People are too stupid to understand these complex issues.
Posted by: Lizzy at August 12, 2016 01:39 PM (NOIQH)

I hesitate to bring him up, and I'm NOT comparing Trump to the H-word, but it's notable that Hitler said that he aimed his speeches at the dumbest ignoramus in the audience, in order to reach the maximum number of listeners.

Posted by: Hurricane LaFawnduh at August 12, 2016 01:43 PM (laMCB)

131 I'm not sure why I need a knot in my nads over someone pointing out that people who don't respect the law are part and parcel of criminal activity.

Posted by: Mr. Peebles at August 12, 2016 01:43 PM (OkKDg)

132
Spongeworthy, I undersrand YOU had no problem with it, But youre handwringing over Other People who have a problem with how and what Trump says when it's all overblown by the liars in the media.

Posted by: M Magoo's at August 12, 2016 01:43 PM (8PrS9)

133 Maybe the way to handle the border thingy is to demand reciprocity. You know, Americans can come and go to Mexico when the feel like it, buy land, build businesses and pay absolutely no attention to the Mexico's law. The worst that could happen would be Mexico becoming the fastest growing 1st World country in the world.

Deal?

Posted by: Puddin Head at August 12, 2016 01:43 PM (oDCMR)

134 But, he stepped in it by singling out Mexicans, saying "Mexico isn't sending their best people..." If he'd stuck with bashing (telling the truth about) illegals, then we'd have a better test of this theory.

Posted by: spongeworthy at August 12, 2016 01:26 PM (mrfTe)

Trump is right. Mexico is actively aiding and abetting illegal immigration into the USA, and many of the "bad people" they are sending are not even Mexicans.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at August 12, 2016 01:44 PM (oqkO3)

135 . If I lived in a swing state I'd have to wrestle with my conscience about my vote, but I know my vote doesn't count.

Please elaborate.

btw, your vote does matter in the popular vote total

There's a thing called the electoral college that decides elections. States vote in blocks. I live (under protest) in Connecticut. All of my state's votes are going to Hillary.

The popular vote is just an interesting statistic, it doesn't mean anything.

I'm going to vote for Gary Johnson and I think he's a lunatic. I just hope it gives more visibility to the liberatian cause.

Posted by: Bandersnatch at August 12, 2016 01:44 PM (mgbwf)

136 I realize this statement will not be popular here right now. Nevertheless, it should be pointed out- if it has not been already- that if we judge Trump's current statements about illegal immigration and illegal immigrants against his record of previous statement his genuineness comes out about as well as McCain did and does. Look, we all knew McCain was full of shit when he pretended to care about the border because of his record of pimping amnesty. If that's the same standard we're using for Trump then I don't see why we're supposed to take his current positions any more seriously than McCain's. This is the dude that, during the last presidential election cycle, insisted in public interviews that Romney's idea to try to solve the problem via attrition was "too extreme." Trump said that. So, I doubt you really want us to evaluate his genuineness that way.

Look, I can completely sympathize with the idea that we have to ride this train because it's not Hillary. I'm not there and I don't know if I will get there by November, but I understand the argument and I don't take any issue with people who have made that choice. But I'm not going to pretend that Trump is now the standard of conservatism, or that he is even a smidgen worthy of our trust just because he happens to have come around to my own position on x issue, incredibly recently. He's a lying, weasely, braggart shithead. The only reason I'm even open to the possibility that I could come around before November is because Hillary is so openly evil. That's not a ringing endorsement.

Posted by: Mandy P. (Not Patinkin), lurking lurker who lurks at August 12, 2016 01:44 PM (KkVB6)

137 I hesitate to bring him up, and I'm NOT comparing Trump to the H-word, but it's notable that Hitler said that he aimed his speeches at the dumbest ignoramus in the audience, in order to reach the maximum number of listeners.

That's what I really liked about Hitler. Now pass the paste, please.

Posted by: Joe Biden at August 12, 2016 01:44 PM (8ZskC)

138 There is certainly a frustrating double standard. Trump is a non-politician attempting to run for President. What the press is reacting to is the fact that his message isn't packaged. Whether he can make that work for him in the long run will be interesting to watch.

Posted by: Caliban at August 12, 2016 01:45 PM (DrC22)

139 >>P.J. O'Rourke once said that beyond a certain point, complexity is
fraud. I think our government is proving him right on a daily basis.
They complicate the obvious, so they can try to claim that only they
have the special ability figure out the best way forward.

Exactly.
They get so caught up in the minutia they miss the obvious.

Posted by: Lizzy at August 12, 2016 01:45 PM (NOIQH)

140 I'm going to vote for Gary Johnson and I think he's a lunatic. I just hope it gives more visibility to the liberatian cause.

Posted by: Bandersnatch at August 12, 2016 01:44 PM (mgbwf)

Yeah, there's a plan.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at August 12, 2016 01:46 PM (8ZskC)

141 "34 I don't think Trump said anything wrong, as he was telling a truth many don't want to hear and that's nearly always good.

But, he stepped in it by singling out Mexicans"

Oh, right. Because if Trump hadn't mentioned by name the only country with whom we share a southern border the media would've kindly assumed he was talking about Guatemalans. Which is totally cool, cuz we all agree Guatemalans are the worst. Fuckin' Guatemalans, man, amirite?

Posted by: GalosGann at August 12, 2016 01:46 PM (md1b/)

142 I never signed the social contract, fat lotta good that does me.

Posted by: x at August 12, 2016 01:46 PM (nFwvY)

143 "Whether you like it or not, the way things are said and presented make a huge difference even if they mean the exact same thing."

That's what Trump put across to Hugh Hewitt (paraphrase): If I said it your way I would be ignored; if I say it my way they will cover it.

Posted by: *Mikey NTH - Know Your Place! The Outrage Outlet has Official DNC Oppression Hierarchy Cards! at August 12, 2016 01:46 PM (hLRSq)

144 140 I'm going to vote for Gary Johnson and I think he's a lunatic. I just hope it gives more visibility to the liberatian cause.

Posted by: Bandersnatch at August 12, 2016 01:44 PM

He could be the death of it...

Posted by: donna at August 12, 2016 01:46 PM (O2RFr)

145 McCain rode the 'war hero' train for a long time and has ended up his military service history by becoming a DC hack -pandering and lying. So if you say this to a liberal or a GOPe, they will immediately pounce on you and regurgitate his POW status in Hanoi and what he had to endure. You see they LOVE the military when a member or veteran can be used as a battering ram. It is all lies.

By the way Johnnie, you do know that Arizona has a very serious crime rate above the national average with a disproportionate amount being conducted by illegals right?

Posted by: Cheri at August 12, 2016 01:46 PM (oiNtH)

146 Leslie Mann is a scream.

Posted by: ace at August 12, 2016 01:37 PM (dciA+)

Yes she is. The problem is, her husband is hit and miss.

And I guess that could mean both her real life husband (Apatow) and the Rudd character in the movie.

Posted by: BurtTC at August 12, 2016 01:46 PM (TOk1P)

147 >>>I realize this statement will not be popular here right now. Nevertheless, it should be pointed out- if it has not been already- that if we judge Trump's current statements about illegal immigration and illegal immigrants against his record of previous statement his genuineness comes out about as well as McCain did and does. Look, we all knew McCain was full of shit when he pretended to care about the border because of his record of pimping amnesty. If that's the same standard we're using for Trump then I don't see why we're supposed to take his current positions any more seriously than McCain's. This is the dude that, during the last presidential election cycle, insisted in public interviews that Romney's idea to try to solve the problem via attrition was "too extreme." Trump said that. So, I doubt you really want us to evaluate his genuineness that way.

Fair enough -- but your conclusion is all wrong. Taking all that to be true, that suggests that Trump, like McCain, was being completely cynical in his statement and just tryin' to trick the rubes, and therefore should be given the same Just Tryin' to Trick the Rubes exemption McCain got.

Why didn't Trump get it?

Was it just that he was from outside the club, then?

Posted by: ace at August 12, 2016 01:47 PM (dciA+)

148 Maybe the way to handle the border thingy is to demand reciprocity. You know, Americans can come and go to Mexico when the feel like it, buy land, build businesses and pay absolutely no attention to the Mexico's law. The worst that could happen would be Mexico becoming the fastest growing 1st World country in the world.

Deal?

Posted by: Puddin Head at August 12, 2016 01:43 PM (oDCMR)

Not even close. I have no desire to go or live in Mexico. Mexicans (and the rest of the world, as things are) have no right to come or live here.

How would you like it if some bum broke into your home and set up camp in your living room and then told you that you could do the same with his cardboard box?

There is only one answer to national sovereignty. This nation is ours, not the world's.

Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at August 12, 2016 01:47 PM (zc3Db)

149 But, he stepped in it by singling out Mexicans, saying "Mexico isn't sending their best people..." If he'd stuck with bashing (telling the truth about) illegals, then we'd have a better test of this theory.

Posted by: spongeworthy

What part of "Mexico isn't sending their best people..." is incorrect?

Posted by: rickb223 TEXIT at August 12, 2016 01:47 PM (UYkjZ)

150 I never signed the social contract, fat lotta good that does me.

Posted by: x at August 12, 2016 01:46 PM (nFwvY)

That what I said, but I still got drawn and quartered.

Posted by: Zombie William Wallace at August 12, 2016 01:47 PM (8ZskC)

151 I must say that seeing that Sheriff Bababooey playing along with McCain's charade will make me think differently of him whenever I see him on Fox. Who am I kidding? I stopped watching that crap ages ago.

Posted by: Emmett Milbarge at August 12, 2016 01:47 PM (nFdGS)

152 Posted by: shibumi who now just wants to yell at stupid people at August 12, 2016 01:38 PM (tvyXw)

I've despised Trump with the heat of a 1000 suns before I even knew who Hillary was. I've conceded though that I despise Hillary with the heat of 1001 suns.

Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck at August 12, 2016 01:47 PM (+P27u)

153 I think it's that "the people are dumb, so we have to say the things
that the dumb people respond to --- even if you and I know it's bunk ---
because it's important to win and then do what's best".

It is the

Hold on. You're saying people are smart, yet we've just heard it asserted that if Trump says the world is round, the media will say it isn't, and the people will presumably believe it. Which is it? Are the people smart or stupid? If they're smart, a biased press doesn't matter.

At the risk of being labelled an elitist, I think most people are stupid and lazy, or at least lazy and incurious.

Posted by: pep at August 12, 2016 01:48 PM (LAe3v)

154 I'm going to vote for Gary Johnson and I think he's a lunatic. I just hope it gives more visibility to the liberatian cause.

Posted by: Bandersnatch at August 12, 2016 01:44 PM (mgbwf)

If Gary Johnson gets more vote than any other Libertarian in history, it will convince his party that their Pot and Amnesty bullshit is a viable strategy and a good idea, not bolster the cause of liberty.

Posted by: Cato the Rebel Without a Party at August 12, 2016 01:48 PM (HalrA)

155 I'm going to vote for Gary Johnson and I think he's a lunatic. I just hope it gives more visibility to the liberatian cause.

Posted by: Bandersnatch at August 12, 2016 01:44 PM (mgbwf)

Ain't enough weed in the world for me to be able to unravel the illogic here.

Posted by: BurtTC at August 12, 2016 01:49 PM (TOk1P)

156 There's a fantastic scene where Rudd and Mann are going to have sex for the first time in months and their daughters will not stop pounding on the door to whine about one taking the other's stuffed animal and their exasperation and anger at being denied this ONE chance to have sex is fucking hilarious as hell//

Sure its all fun and games until you have to live it. Ha. Parenting is the awesome.

Posted by: simplemind at August 12, 2016 01:49 PM (JTwsP)

157 Ain't enough weed in the world for me to be able to unravel the illogic here.
Posted by: BurtTC at August 12, 2016 01:49 PM (TOk1P)

LMAO...your right

Posted by: Nevergiveup at August 12, 2016 01:49 PM (Ozsfq)

158 Maybe the way to handle the border thingy is to demand reciprocity. You
know, Americans can come and go to Mexico when the feel like it, buy
land, build businesses and pay absolutely no attention to the Mexico's
law. The worst that could happen would be Mexico becoming the fastest
growing 1st World country in the world.

Deal?
---
I'm not sure how you get past the cartel veto.

Posted by: Methos, AoSHQ commenter since 2006, now apperently nonvoting democrat at August 12, 2016 01:49 PM (3Liv/)

159 Going to overtime

Posted by: Nevergiveup at August 12, 2016 01:50 PM (Ozsfq)

160 Ain't enough weed in the world for me to be able to unravel the illogic here.

Maybe you can borrow some of Malia obamas stash...

Posted by: donna at August 12, 2016 01:50 PM (O2RFr)

161 "My guess is within a few days of the primary results, McCain will be anti-Trump 24/7."

That's why it was so frustrating to have Trump endorse Old Man Yells At Clouds in the primary against Kelli Ward.

Nothing says "I'm going to shake up D.C." quite like lending one's imprimatur to a worn-out, dishonest old D.C. hack.

Posted by: torquewrench at August 12, 2016 01:50 PM (noWW6)

162 Card carrying Libertarian: Fuck yes I'm voting for Mr. Trump.

Posted by: nip at August 12, 2016 01:50 PM (L5nkE)

163 "Donald has a short history of saying ridiculous and horrible and crazy things about everyone, including McCain "

Ridiculoud and horrible like what he said about Mexicans, you mean?

McCain's should have a lot more mean things said about him. All politicians should. Keeps them grounded

Posted by: GalosGann at August 12, 2016 01:50 PM (md1b/)

164 I'm going to vote for Gary Johnson and I think he's a lunatic. I just hope it gives more visibility to the liberatian cause.

Posted by: Bandersnatch at August 12, 2016 01:44 PM

He could be the death of it...
Posted by: donna

Well, that's a possibility.

He is a loon.

I do like Bill Weld.

Posted by: Bandersnatch at August 12, 2016 01:50 PM (mgbwf)

165
If I lived in a swing state I'd have to wrestle with my conscience about my vote

I didn't sign up for this.

Posted by: Bandersnatch

There's nothing I can do

A total eclipse of the heart

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at August 12, 2016 01:50 PM (kdS6q)

166 Was it just that he was from outside the club, then?

Posted by: ace at August 12, 2016 01:47 PM (dciA+)

The fact that he's from outside the club should be all the reason anybody needs to vote for him. The club has been selling us down the river. They have to be pulled out by the root and utterly destroyed.

Posted by: Cato the Rebel Without a Party at August 12, 2016 01:50 PM (HalrA)

167

There is a way, and only one way, to stop this media/dnc bullshit fake outrage:

We do it, too.

We start, right now, going bugfuck crazy over the words that come out of obama's and hillary's mouths such as tellng Black people theyre justfied in murdering white cops and tellng them to continue to do so.

The beauty part of my plan is that, unlike the Democrats, we dont have to lie.

Posted by: M Magoo's at August 12, 2016 01:50 PM (8PrS9)

168 Posted by: donna at August 12, 2016 01:22 PM (O2RFr)

Exactly.

Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette at August 12, 2016 01:51 PM (GDulk)

169 Trump's not conservative, but he has one solid thing going for him.

He's not Hillary.

My sole motivation in voting for him is to deny her.

Posted by: BeckoningChasm at August 12, 2016 01:51 PM (AroJD)

170 Sometimes our side feels like the unpopular kid on the playground trying to get the cool kids to play by the rules in kickball.

Posted by: AlaBAMA at August 12, 2016 01:52 PM (2PHKP)

171 And in historical news, Cleopatra VII of Egypt died on this day in 30 BC. Those filthy Romans...

Posted by: Anna Puma at August 12, 2016 01:52 PM (LTMJL)

172 I'm not sure how you get past the cartel veto.

Superior firepower.

Posted by: rickb223 TEXIT at August 12, 2016 01:52 PM (UYkjZ)

173 I do like Bill Weld.

Feh. Too bad he doesn't like your "assault weapon."

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at August 12, 2016 01:52 PM (8ZskC)

174 Thanks for the memories. I loathe that asshole McVain more today than before.

Posted by: oddknot still frets at August 12, 2016 01:52 PM (g1MTt)

175 It is the same reason no one cares about Obama's opposition to gay marriage.

The uniparty knew he was lying when he made his statements against in, so why would they hold it against him now?

Posted by: 18-1 at August 12, 2016 01:52 PM (X7E8f)

176 And yet if he was running as a D against Cruz or whatever, none of that would matter to the elites. Like magic!!!! That Crazy Uncle Don!!!!!!! Champion of Wimmenz!!!!!
Posted by: at at at at

Joe Biden. Crazy ole Uncle Joe!! Ha, ha. Never mind this grinning set of teeth has spent 30 years being enriched for his imbecilic comments and is a nasty piece of work to boot.

Posted by: Cheri at August 12, 2016 01:53 PM (oiNtH)

177
Deal?
---
I'm not sure how you get past the cartel veto.
-------------------
Why would they complain? Do you think American's will build businesses in Northern Mexico? No one is that stupid. We will buy up all the beachfront property and encourage teh Cholos to migrate to California for the freebies.

Posted by: Puddin Head at August 12, 2016 01:53 PM (oDCMR)

178
I do like Bill Weld.
***
Arguably the least libertarian candidate that the Libertarian Party has ever nominated.

Posted by: 18-1 at August 12, 2016 01:53 PM (X7E8f)

179 There is only one answer to national sovereignty. This nation is ours, not the world's.

Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at August 12, 2016 01:47 PM (zc3Db)

Fuckin' A, you hit the nail right on the head. America belongs to American citizens, not to the people of the world. If you want to own a part of it, come here legally, get a job, learn the language, go through the citizenship process, and pledge allegiance.

If you're just coming here because you think it'll get you a boatload of money from the public coffers, go to Europe.

Posted by: Cato the Rebel Without a Party at August 12, 2016 01:53 PM (HalrA)

180 I'm going to vote for Gary Johnson

Let's light one up to celebrate, my friend!1!

Posted by: Garry Johnsen at August 12, 2016 01:53 PM (vtcmf)

181 Unfortunately, I expect an even bigger betrayal by Trump. He doesn't believe what he says about immigration (illegal or otherwise) and has already clarified through his son that he doesn't mean it.

As for Gary Johnson, amnesty doesn't mean much if you cut off services to the illegals. When they don't have a reason to be here other than working hard and earning a living, you're already cutting out the ones you want to leave.

Posted by: Buanadha at August 12, 2016 01:53 PM (kxv3u)

182
Trump "stepped in" what, exactly? Some made-up bullshit rule created by Leftists on speech code about Mexicans?

Thou Shalt Not Talk Ill Of Mexicans No Matter What Some Mexicans Do

Fick that, bro.

Posted by: M Magoowing Plover at August 12, 2016 01:32 PM (8PrS9)

It's anecdotal of course, but the most vehement, angry, scatological opposition to the illegal alien invasion that I've heard with my own ears has come from 1st generation LEGAL immigrants from Mexico and Central America.

A lot of those folks are fucking LIVID. They understand perfectly well that the amnesty shills have totally fucked them over, and they're feeling like they've been made into suckers for actually following the law.

It's really eye-opening to hear a legal immigrant with a heavy Mexican accent raving about "worthless wetback motherfuckers".

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at August 12, 2016 01:53 PM (xxSK3)

183 " But youre handwringing over Other People who have a problem with how and what Trump says when it's all overblown by the liars in the media."

I am. I think it's important to win. And winning elections can be a lot easier if you learn how to say what you want to say without giving the media jackals their red meat.

Posted by: spongeworthy at August 12, 2016 01:53 PM (mrfTe)

184 >>Going to overtime

I hope they go to the bikini shoot-out.

Posted by: garrett at August 12, 2016 01:53 PM (c1srJ)

185 Trump has been in the public eye for how many decades and now that he runs for office, he has become the anti-Christ?

Damn.

I've been vying for that title since Watergate.

Posted by: H. R. Clinton at August 12, 2016 01:54 PM (oQQwD)

186 A total eclipse of the heart

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix

Oh. There's an earworm that's actually a guilty pleasure.

Posted by: Bandersnatch at August 12, 2016 01:54 PM (mgbwf)

187 I'm going to vote for Gary Johnson and I think he's a lunatic. I just hope it gives more visibility to the liberatian cause.
***
Why would you vote for an authoritarian if you are interested in libertarianism?

Posted by: 18-1 at August 12, 2016 01:54 PM (X7E8f)

188 And in historical news, Cleopatra VII of Egypt died on this day in 30 BC. Those filthy Romans...
Posted by: Anna Puma

Gotta keep the pimp-hand strong.

Posted by: Augustus at August 12, 2016 01:54 PM (07Q15)

189 And in historical news, Cleopatra VII of Egypt died on this day in 30 BC. Those filthy Romans...

Vic wrote her obituary.

Posted by: rickb223 TEXIT at August 12, 2016 01:55 PM (UYkjZ)

190 170
Sometimes our side feels like the unpopular kid on the playground trying to get the cool kids to play by the rules in kickball.

Posted by: AlaBAMA at August 12, 2016 01:52 PM (2PHKP)

As a lifelong nerd, sometimes you just have to play a different game. One you're familiar with, that they don't know so well. Like Fizbin.

Posted by: Cato the Rebel Without a Party at August 12, 2016 01:55 PM (HalrA)

191 But I do see many "conservatives" now retreating -- or running at top speed -- away from this former value of egalitarianism,...

If nothing else, Donald Trump has ripped the cowl from the face that Republicans have been hiding behind. We have gone 'round and 'round over how difficult it has been to put even the most modest barriers in front of the Progressive agenda. We have generally been blaming that on those feckless Georgetown wannabe Congressional hacks.

But Trump has shown that to be a lie. He has forced these echelon Republicans into the open, where they can no longer pretend to stand for philosophies and policies to which they've at least paid lip service. Now exposed to be naught but liars and self-seeking teat suckers, they do not like it one little bit.

About frickin' time, too! No d**n wonder the Dem agenda always polls so well - so many Republicans favor it, despite their public face. Ace is right: a multi-tiered societal caste is anathema to a Conservative, and to the very ideal of the American founding. Trump has caused the exposure of why it has been so perplexingly difficult to arrest the identity politics, the caste system, of the Progressive agenda.

Posted by: LCMS Rulz! at August 12, 2016 01:56 PM (o7l6R)

192 Lying to your ignorant, uneducated doltish rube voters

One for four, do I get a cookie?

Posted by: DaveA at August 12, 2016 01:56 PM (8J/Te)

193 As for Gary Johnson, amnesty doesn't mean much if you cut off services to the illegals.
***
The problem with that argument is

A) If he was elected he would collaborate with the left - amnesty and no cuts to handouts

B) More importantly, he isn't going to win anyway

Posted by: 18-1 at August 12, 2016 01:56 PM (X7E8f)

194 The problem is the elitists on OUR side are now globalists.

Globalism is starting to seem kind of like a nightmare if the EU is any indication.

The proverbial boot stomping on your neck forever.

Posted by: Max Power at August 12, 2016 01:57 PM (q177U)

195
And in historical news, Cleopatra VII of Egypt died on this day in 30 BC. Those filthy Romans...

Posted by: Anna Puma at August 12, 2016 01:52 PM (LTMJL)

She was smart enough to end it before Augustus kicked her asp.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at August 12, 2016 01:57 PM (xxSK3)

196
Let me Bikini Bottom line it for you:

Our major problem is we not only have no counterpunch to this bullshit, we have no punch.

Posted by: M Magoo's at August 12, 2016 01:57 PM (8PrS9)

197 "If you are arguing that McCain in 2010 was evaluated differently because people looked at his prior record...well, yes."

Yeah, his prior record of lying and dick sucking of the oligarchy.

Posted by: #NeverHillary at August 12, 2016 01:57 PM (/So8Q)

198 The red rat commie bastards of the Democratic Party are our opponents. The Republican Leadership is our enemy.

Posted by: Grump928(C) reminds you at August 12, 2016 01:57 PM (rwI+c)

199 Trump has caused the exposure of why it has been so perplexingly difficult to arrest the identity politics, the caste system, of the Progressive agenda.///

Cause people like special privileges. Since like, forever.

Posted by: simplemind at August 12, 2016 01:57 PM (JTwsP)

200 Posted by: IllTemperedCur

Cesar Chavez was very anti-illegal immigrant. He called them wet-backs and he and a group of his followers would go on patrol fully loaded to defend against them.

A fact the left leaves out as they celebrate Cesar Chavez Day.

Posted by: Cheri at August 12, 2016 01:57 PM (oiNtH)

201 Catch everyone later like a Pokemon

Posted by: Anna Puma at August 12, 2016 01:58 PM (LTMJL)

202 I do like Bill Weld.

Mr "Rifles are Weapons of Mass Destruction"? No, thanks.

Posted by: Blanco Basura at August 12, 2016 01:58 PM (4WhSY)

203 185 Trump has been in the public eye for how many decades and now that he runs for office, he has become the anti-Christ?

Damn.

I've been vying for that title since Watergate.
Posted by: H. R. Clinton at August 12, 2016 01:54 PM (oQQwD)

It's not been only since he has run for office. He's had that reputation in certain circles for quite some time.

Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck at August 12, 2016 01:58 PM (+P27u)

204 Ace,

Another possibility: what McCain and Trump said isn't racist or objectionable at face value, but what is said is filtered through the listeners projection of who says it.

In other words, politics today isn't taking place at face value, but is all about "dog-whistles" and signaling. And you don't attribute to your opponent the most charitable motive.

Posted by: goodluckduck at August 12, 2016 01:59 PM (yqvys)

205 And in historical news, Cleopatra VII of Egypt died on this day in 30 BC. Those filthy Romans...

Posted by: Anna Puma at August 12, 2016 01:52 PM (LTMJL)

Under the Gregorian or Julian calendar?

Posted by: Bandersnatch at August 12, 2016 01:59 PM (mgbwf)

206 wow, trolls are out in full force today.

Posted by: spypeach at August 12, 2016 01:59 PM (nyYhO)

207 As for Gary Johnson, amnesty doesn't mean much if you cut off services to the illegals. When they don't have a reason to be here other than working hard and earning a living, you're already cutting out the ones you want to leave.
Posted by: Buanadha

The chance of serious reductions in entitlements is slightly lower than aliens landing on your roof.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at August 12, 2016 01:59 PM (9sySV)

208 "What part of "Mexico isn't sending their best people..." is incorrect?"

As far as I know, nothing. But, it could refer to both legal and illegal immigration. It leaves out Central and South America. It could as easily been phrased "The illegals who're coming here are not the best possible immigrants."

So, while it's accurate AFAIK, it's needlessly inflammatory. Is all I'm sayin'.

Posted by: spongeworthy at August 12, 2016 01:59 PM (mrfTe)

209 Trump is not your stereotypical Republican candidate out of Consultant Central. He is not a perfectly scripted Blandy McBlanderson according to the political dictates of the age. Political dictates that only are applied to Republicans, by the way.

Donald Trump deliberately uses hyperbole to get his statement attention and then dials back to the regular level. He has admitted the same. By doing so he deliberately spins up the media outrage machine (a Rage-O-Vox 5000C, made by Calumny International, and carried by the Outrage Outlet) and they cover his statement about ISIS, or immigration, or Hillary's e-mails, or any of a number of different things they would not otherwise talk about if he was Blandy McBlanderson.

People on this site, and elsewhere, have complained that the GOP needs someone who can get a message out past the MSM. Well, you got one, his message is out there. Now the complaints are that his style is not-quite-oh-my. The style is why his message is getting carried out, even if the MSM is attacking it, his message is out there.

He isn't Blandy McBlanderson, though both would be called Nazis. And Blandy would apologize for that.

Posted by: *Mikey NTH - Know Your Place! The Outrage Outlet has Official DNC Oppression Hierarchy Cards! at August 12, 2016 01:59 PM (hLRSq)

210
Repblicans are like Little Finger, minus the guile and cunning.

Fork-tongued Shits just looking out for themselves.

Posted by: M Magoo's at August 12, 2016 02:00 PM (8PrS9)

211 Better an honest foe than an unfaithful ally.

Posted by: Grump928(C) reminds you at August 12, 2016 02:00 PM (rwI+c)

212
It's not been only since he has run for office. He's had that reputation in certain circles for quite some time.
Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck at August 12, 2016 01:58 PM (+P27u)

Which circles?

Posted by: Please Don't Squeeze the Charmin at August 12, 2016 02:01 PM (lKyWE)

213 He's had that reputation in certain circles for quite some time.

Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck at August 12, 2016 01:58 PM (+P27u)

Just ask many of the small subcontractors on his projects that he is famous for stiffing.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at August 12, 2016 02:01 PM (Zu3d9)

214 "He's from a higher caste than Paula Dean -- a better caste. He's just a better person, therefore his words and actions are evaluated differently from a lesser human being's."

And Paula Dean was and is a Democrat. So even that wasn't enough to save her. She's white and southern. The oligarchy hates them the most.

So even after her groveling tour, with self-flagellation it wasn't enough. But she's still with the Dems.

Posted by: #NeverHillary at August 12, 2016 02:01 PM (/So8Q)

215 Ace is right: a multi-tiered societal caste is
anathema to a Conservative, and to the very ideal of the American
founding. Trump has caused the exposure of why it has been so
perplexingly difficult to arrest the identity politics, the caste
system, of the Progressive agenda.

Posted by: LCMS Rulz! at August 12, 2016 01:56 PM (o7l6R)

It's not just anathema to a Conservative, I stopped calling myself one a long time ago, it's the antithesis and negation of the American way. Every American, no matter what he calls himself, should shudder and recoil at the very thought of this monstrosity being imposed on us.

And yes, I still think we need to drop the conservative label. Conservatives want to preserve the status quo, and the new status quo is nothing we want to preserve. We're not all that conservative and never were. The ideas we support, of government from the bottom up, instead of the top down, are still the newest thing in all of human relations. We're the ideological descendants of the rebels that founded this country. We're the radicals, and being a radical for the cause of human liberty is no sin! Let's embrace this and be proud of it, and let the Boehners, Ryans, and McConnells of the world keep the Conservative label that they have brought so much dishonor to.

Posted by: Cato the Rebel Without a Party at August 12, 2016 02:01 PM (HalrA)

216 And in historical news, Cleopatra VII of Egypt died on this day in 30 BC. Those filthy Romans...

Posted by: Anna Puma at August 12, 2016 01:52 PM (LTMJL)

It must have been humiliating for Cleopatra to die in the month named after the guy who forced her to kill herself.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at August 12, 2016 02:01 PM (8ZskC)

217
And where did Little Finger get his army, anyway?

All of a sudden Little Finger has an army of well trained men at his beck and call?

Posted by: M Magoo's at August 12, 2016 02:01 PM (8PrS9)

218
The chance of serious reductions in entitlements is slightly lower than aliens landing on your roof.

At least ones that aren't roofing contractors.

Posted by: Mr. Peebles at August 12, 2016 02:02 PM (vP09u)

219 He isn't Blandy McBlanderson, though both would be called Nazis. And Blandy would apologize for that.
Posted by: *Mikey NTH - Know Your Place! The Outrage Outlet has Official DNC Oppression Hierarchy Cards!

Word.

Posted by: Mitt Romney-What was a Nazi until I denounced Trump, now I'm reasonable at August 12, 2016 02:03 PM (07Q15)

220 He isn't Blandy McBlanderson, though both would be called Nazis. And Blandy would apologize for that.
-------------------
Even Jeb would have lost to Blandy.

Posted by: Puddin Head at August 12, 2016 02:03 PM (oDCMR)

221 McVain was running for the Senate, where is a known entity. Once he ran for President, he became the enemy. Remember how shicked he was when he realized his longtime friends in the press had turned on him, publishing dirt on his love-life, writing stories about his Academy days and questioning his intelligence, reviewing his flight records and wondering exactly how good a pilot he really was, even questioning his POW record (requiring his fellow POW's to vouch in print for him).

McCain got the "other" treatment as Presidential candidate, and he couldn't believe it. Did the press really think he was a foe? "No, no!" he often said, "I'm still a friend!".

Posted by: MTF at August 12, 2016 02:03 PM (/m8T6)

222 We're the radicals, and being a radical for the cause of human liberty is no sin! Let's embrace this and be proud of it, and let the Boehners, Ryans, and McConnells of the world keep the Conservative label that they have brought so much dishonor to.
Posted by: Cato the Rebel Without a Party at August 12, 2016 02:01 PM (HalrA)

For the last 4 or so years, I've been calling myself a liberal because I believe in liberty.

Posted by: joe, living dangerously at August 12, 2016 02:03 PM (KUaJL)

223 "But I do see many "conservatives" now retreating -- or running at top speed -- away from this former value of egalitarianism, now embracing large swaths of the left's status-and-credentialism system of some people just being plain better than others"

You mean like Kevin Williamson of - Die White People Die - fame?

Posted by: #NeverHillary at August 12, 2016 02:03 PM (/So8Q)

224 To a certain extent, the idea that McCain got a pass because of his elite role in the GOPe is true, but:

Do you think the reaction might have been different if McCain had said this while running for President?

Or if Trump had said two or three stupid things, instead of doing it almost daily?

Also, Trump has been a joke, a trashy tabloid celebrity, a Paris Hilton before Paris Hilton, since the 80s. The idea that he is a vulgar buffoon is not new.

Posted by: person(a non grata) at August 12, 2016 02:03 PM (mFkVC)

225 And in historical news, Cleopatra VII of Egypt died on this day in 30 BC. Those filthy Romans...

Posted by: Anna Puma at August 12, 2016 01:52 PM (LTMJL)

I don't know about that. With the bathes, sewerage system and running water they were pretty clean

Posted by: TheQuietMan at August 12, 2016 02:03 PM (493sH)

226 All of a sudden Little Finger has an army of well trained men at his beck and call?

Men don't follow titles. They follow men with no balls.

Wait. Let me try this again...

Posted by: Zombie William Wallace at August 12, 2016 02:03 PM (8ZskC)

227 don't like about populism is the direct challenge to the privilege of the elites, or the self-vaunted elites,

Theoretically I suppose The Republic was to avoid the Mob by hiring those better at being Representatives not those who just think they're better.

Doesn't the scale go

ettes, Me, other morons, lesser scum, greater scum.

Posted by: DaveA at August 12, 2016 02:04 PM (8J/Te)

228 I'm old. I switched from Democrat to Republican in 1964, and have been a loyal Republican ever since. For 50+ years I have watched America drift inexorably toward socialism. The current Republican party is pathetic.

If Clinton wins I am giving up the fight. Its over. They won.

At least Trump provides some glimmer of hope and he is a hell of a lot more entertaining.

Posted by: Deaf Smith at August 12, 2016 02:05 PM (FkwUD)

229 I do like Bill Weld.

Oh man, the professional trolls supporting drunks and free spenders are busily typing away already and it's only early afternoon.

Posted by: MTF at August 12, 2016 02:05 PM (/m8T6)

230 217
And where did Little Finger get his army, anyway?

All of a sudden Little Finger has an army of well trained men at his beck and call?
Posted by: M Magoo's at August 12, 2016 02:01 PM (8PrS9)

They were the knights of the Vale. He's protector of the Vale now, because he married Lysa Arryn, and has Robert Arryn basically in his pocket.

It actually works out, because the lords of the Vale have been one of the few major houses that have been avoiding conflict up until now, so their army is relatively fresh.

Posted by: joe, living dangerously at August 12, 2016 02:05 PM (KUaJL)

231 And where did Little Finger get his army, anyway?

All of a sudden Little Finger has an army of well trained men at his beck and call?

Oh that's my biggest problem with Game of Thrones, and I love Game of Thrones.

It's the question of scale. You get a realistic depiction of 200 people in a castle and how they get fed and watered. Then you get a set piece battle between armies of 20,000.

Who fed and watered them, other than CGI?

Posted by: Bandersnatch at August 12, 2016 02:05 PM (mgbwf)

232 Posted by: ace at August 12, 2016 01:47 PM (dciA+)

Oh, I don't disagree that the establishment has a double standard. I'm not a fan of those jackasses, either. I'm a close the border supporter. I think all immigration needs to be temporarily suspended until we can deal with the illegals crossing the border and all the stupid visa overstays, etc, and then when we open it back up it needs to be scaled way the hell back. So I don't disagree with Trump's current position. I just don't believe he means it.

Posted by: Mandy P. (Not Patinkin), lurking lurker who lurks at August 12, 2016 02:05 PM (KkVB6)

233 For the last 4 or so years, I've been calling myself a liberal because I believe in liberty.

Posted by: joe, living dangerously at August 12, 2016 02:03 PM (KUaJL)

We're classical liberals. These progressive socialists have stolen our label. Calling ourselves liberals and throwing relief onto the difference between actual liberalism and the stuff that sells itself as liberalism these days would do us a lot of good - if we had a bigger megaphone.

Posted by: Cato the Rebel Without a Party at August 12, 2016 02:05 PM (HalrA)

234 I think that we've likely reached a point where a Republican simply can't be elected President anymore. It doesn't matter about gaffes, messaging, or strategy. The numbers preclude it. That's why TEXIT sounds more appealing to me by the day.

Posted by: Reggie1971 at August 12, 2016 02:05 PM (DDM7c)

235 A good example is Flake. He ran as an actual conservative and once in office became buddies with McBane. Now he is a member of the elite and a fully functioning robot for those with more money than he will ever have. Yes, a complete asshole selling out America.

Posted by: New Phone at August 12, 2016 02:06 PM (QD9b6)

236 And as per DaveA's style guide:
I voted for McCain to die, he has yet to perform this basic constituent service.

Posted by: DaveA at August 12, 2016 02:06 PM (8J/Te)

237 Hey, and did you hear that Trump called a certain category of young urban black males "superpredators" who had to be put away in prison to ensure the public safety?

Oh! Wait! Pardon me. That wasn't Trump. That was Hillary Clinton. Back two decades ago. In the era when her husband was standing for office with Confederate-flag iconography in selected media markets.

But "that statement is no longer operative" and no racist intent may be inferred thereby. In fact, you'd be racist if you were to bring it up today.

Posted by: torquewrench at August 12, 2016 02:06 PM (noWW6)

238 subcontractors ? i don't know specific cases discussed here, but contractors are in the business of overruns. i can imagine what they were trying to pull on a billion dollar construction project.

Posted by: runner at August 12, 2016 02:06 PM (c6/9Q)

239 So sad to realize that McCain, like that upstart playboy from Queens, is just another member of the [as they used to say at Oxford] petty bourgeoisie class.

Posted by: Billy Blythe at August 12, 2016 02:06 PM (bSxRn)

240 It would be really easy to read Ace as saying (but he isn't) that "McCain is OK because he supports the neocons." It's not like McCain would have survived had he adopted Trump's foreign policy.

Posted by: bjk at August 12, 2016 02:06 PM (gNICR)

241 It's the question of scale. You get a realistic depiction of 200 people in a castle and how they get fed and watered. Then you get a set piece battle between armies of 20,000.

Who fed and watered them, other than CGI?
Posted by: Bandersnatch at August 12, 2016 02:05 PM (mgbwf)

Well, you see, it's rather simple. They just - LOOK OVER THERE, DRAGONS!

Posted by: joe, living dangerously at August 12, 2016 02:07 PM (KUaJL)

242 Yes, a complete asshole selling out America.
Posted by: New Phone at August 12, 2016 02:06 PM (QD9b6)

A lot of that going around

Posted by: Nevergiveup at August 12, 2016 02:07 PM (Ozsfq)

243 Boob bait for the bubbas is an evergreen political tactic.

Posted by: Daniel Patrick Moynihan at August 12, 2016 02:07 PM (R+30W)

244
Heh, Varis leaves Marin on a quest for ships for Danarys. One episode later...100 ships arrive and no one even mentions that they should send word to Varis he should come back.

Posted by: M Magoo's at August 12, 2016 02:07 PM (8PrS9)

245 McCain is given credit because of his gravitas. Wait, I mean gravy. Actually I mean spittle. He has lots and lots of spittle.

Posted by: Romney at August 12, 2016 02:07 PM (1H9ox)

246 So I don't disagree with Trump's current position. I just don't believe he means it.

Posted by: Mandy P. (Not Patinkin), lurking lurker who lurks at August 12, 2016 02:05 PM (KkVB6)

He might or he might not. Only he knows for sure. What is sure is that we're not going to that from anybody else. So a maybe is better than a no.

Posted by: Cato the Rebel Without a Party at August 12, 2016 02:08 PM (HalrA)

247 Also, Trump has been a joke, a trashy tabloid celebrity, a Paris Hilton before Paris Hilton, since the 80s. The idea that he is a vulgar buffoon is not new.
Posted by: person(a non grata) at August 12, 2016 02:03 PM (mFkVC)

Yes, but he's not a Clinton and he's all we've got at the moment and we KNOW how well third party attempts workout and oh, how convenient that every time a Clinton runs, there is a third party to splinter votes!

The left desperately fears and loathes him and HRC is on a mission to take the Whitehouse at all costs so the real concern now is: how do we prevent rampant voter fraud come November?

Posted by: RondinellaMamma at August 12, 2016 02:08 PM (oQQwD)

248 "People on this site, and elsewhere, have complained that the GOP needs someone who can get a message out past the MSM. Well, you got one, his message is out there."

Yes, his message is out there. Not mine, not the conservative message or the libertarian message. His message.

Thing is, if I have to support the guy and knock down unfair attacks and bullshit from the media and family members, I want to get a prize for it, something I want. Not too sure I can see exactly what I'm winning if Trump wins.

Posted by: spongeworthy at August 12, 2016 02:09 PM (mrfTe)

249 Heh, Varis leaves Marin on a quest for ships for Danarys. One episode later...100 ships arrive and no one even mentions that they should send word to Varis he should come back.

And yet amazingly, he's back in time to sail on Danarys' flagship. Just how small is this world?

Posted by: Grump928(C) reminds you at August 12, 2016 02:09 PM (rwI+c)

250 It seems to me we are so far gone now that all really is lost.

The operative question now is: How to preserve the idea of America and it's principles and history as a beacon for future generations, in the face of the determined efforts of the new aristocracy?

Posted by: MTF at August 12, 2016 02:09 PM (/m8T6)

251 It's the question of scale. You get a realistic depiction of 200 people in a castle and how they get fed and watered. Then you get a set piece battle between armies of 20,000.

Who fed and watered them, other than CGI?
Posted by: Bandersnatch at August 12, 2016 02:05 PM (mgbwf)

Well, you see, it's rather simple. They just - LOOK OVER THERE, DRAGONS!
Posted by: joe

Great. Just great. 20,000 people just shit themselves. Now what do we do with it?

Posted by: rickb223 TEXIT at August 12, 2016 02:09 PM (UYkjZ)

252 Keep 'em coming, Ace.

Great stuff !

Also:
"It's not just anathema to a Conservative, I stopped calling myself one a long time ago, it's the antithesis and negation of the American way. Every American, no matter what he calls himself, should shudder and recoil at the very thought of this monstrosity being imposed on us.

And yes, I still think we need to drop the conservative label. Conservatives want to preserve the status quo, and the new status quo is nothing we want to preserve. We're not all that conservative and never were. The ideas we support, of government from the bottom up, instead of the top down, are still the newest thing in all of human relations. We're the ideological descendants of the rebels that founded this country. We're the radicals, and being a radical for the cause of human liberty is no sin! Let's embrace this and be proud of it, and let the Boehners, Ryans, and McConnells of the world keep the Conservative label that they have brought so much dishonor to."

^^^THIS^^^ !

Posted by: sock_rat_eez at August 12, 2016 02:10 PM (gUoN4)

253 >>Trump is going to lose. Trump is going to lose because he's an idiot and half of you bought into the build a wall bullshit.
He just said he doesn't even care if he loses.
So, Hillary is awful. She is. If I lived in a swing state I'd have to wrestle with my conscience about my vote, but I know my vote doesn't count.
Half of you voted for a lifelong liberal and now we're supposed to swallow it because he isn't Hillary?
I didn't sign up for this.
Posted by: Bandersnatch at August 12, 2016 01:34 PM (mgbwf)

I mean, yeah. I spent the entire primary with my fingers in front of my eyes, peering out thinking OMG we're really doing this Trump thing??? Trump? Really?

A friend told me she voted for him in the primary because she thought he could win.

And now here we are.

What I think trump has is the same thing Christie has, which is that blowhard big mouth that makes you *think* you are maybe hearing true talk. But it doesn't mean that you are. It's just a different presentation style.

Posted by: Lea at August 12, 2016 02:10 PM (lIU4e)

254 >>Boob bait for the bubbas is an evergreen political tactic.

Ironically, he used this phrase when talking about Clinton. Bubba Clinton.

Posted by: JackStraw at August 12, 2016 02:10 PM (/tuJf)

255
Oh right, the Vale.

Love how they showed up in the nick of time.

Posted by: M Magoo's at August 12, 2016 02:11 PM (8PrS9)

256 Repblicans are like Little Finger, minus the guile and cunning.

Fork-tongued Shits just looking out for themselves.
---
show biz kids making movies of themselves

you know they don't give a fu*k about anybody else...

Posted by: redc1c4 at August 12, 2016 02:11 PM (KSKy7)

257 234
I think that we've likely reached a point where a Republican simply
can't be elected President anymore. It doesn't matter about gaffes,
messaging, or strategy. The numbers preclude it. That's why TEXIT
sounds more appealing to me by the day.

Posted by: Reggie1971 at August 12, 2016 02:05 PM (DDM7c)

We're close to that point, if we're not already there. I'm willing to try it this one last time, and if Hillary wins, I become a full-time TEXIT supporter.

If Hillary wins, we get Amnesty and a Pathway to Citizenship, third worlders from Leftist nations will be packed in and legitimized, and will continue to vote their preferences. The country will go solid blue, and the two party system ends.

We'll have nothing to lose and everything to gain by leaving at that point.

Posted by: Cato the Rebel Without a Party at August 12, 2016 02:11 PM (HalrA)

258 Love how they showed up in the nick of time.

Thank the ravens.

Posted by: Grump928(C) reminds you at August 12, 2016 02:11 PM (rwI+c)

259 Got a better theory?

Posted by: shibumi who now just wants to yell at stupid people at August 12, 2016 01:35 PM (tvyXw)

All of these New World Order theories are predicated on these scheming elites actuallyimplementing an overarching, meticulously organized plan of near-infinite complexity.

There is noplan. People like Bill and Hillary and Soros and Obama et alare essentially reactionaries, opportunists. Their shallow, empty-headedbrand of transnational Neo-Marxist ideology is just window-dressing for the will to power. They exploit an opening and go wherever it takes them.

What we're seeing on the Progressive Leftis organic, with the authoritarian impulse deeply ingrained in their political DNA. They don't know what's coming next any more than we do.

Posted by: troyriser at August 12, 2016 02:11 PM (OGbEB)

260 It's a two-fer of: the people in charge completely avoiding the reality of our countries real problems (debt, security, jobs, attacks on constitutionalism, stagnet wages, illegal immigration, etc.) AND these so called leaders inability to see that there is a problem (or possibly their flagrant disinterest in actually fixing anything).

++++

But don't you see? That's their answer to all the problems.

Inflate away the debt, replace the people, force down wages, kill the elderly.

Posted by: Bigbys Olive Fingers at August 12, 2016 02:11 PM (0o/oP)

261 Thing is, if I have to support the guy and knock down unfair attacks and bullshit from the media and family members, I want to get a prize for it, something I want. Not too sure I can see exactly what I'm winning if Trump wins.

No camps.

Posted by: rickb223 TEXIT at August 12, 2016 02:12 PM (UYkjZ)

262 and the fact that Little Finger wants to tap that.

Posted by: Grump928(C) reminds you at August 12, 2016 02:12 PM (rwI+c)

263
Also, Trump has been a joke, a trashy tabloid celebrity, a Paris Hilton before Paris Hilton, since the 80s. The idea that he is a vulgar buffoon is not new.
Posted by: person(a non grata) at August 12, 2016 02:03 PM (mFkVC)

I can only assume you were either too young to remember or not born yet in the 1980's.He was actually considered the living,breathingpersonification of the ideal alpha male of the times

Posted by: Flawless Male Logic at August 12, 2016 02:12 PM (lKyWE)

264
Varis is back?
I still havent watched the tenth episode yet.

Posted by: M Magoo's at August 12, 2016 02:12 PM (8PrS9)

265 What I think trump has is the same thing Christie
has, which is that blowhard big mouth that makes you *think* you are
maybe hearing true talk. But it doesn't mean that you are. It's just a
different presentation style.

Posted by: Lea at August 12, 2016 02:10 PM (lIU4e)
---
kinda like your poasts here, eh?

Posted by: redc1c4 at August 12, 2016 02:12 PM (KSKy7)

266 "Not too sure I can see exactly what I'm winning if Trump wins."

Repeating for emphasis: I would vote for the Scalpweasel even if his platform was letter for letter identical to the Hillary Clinton platform.

On the simple basis of _not personally a Clinton_. That suffices.

Posted by: torquewrench at August 12, 2016 02:12 PM (noWW6)

267 ^^^THIS^^^ !

Posted by: sock_rat_eez at August 12, 2016 02:10 PM (gUoN4)

I paraphrased Reagan there. Not my brilliance, just reflecting a brighter light.

Posted by: Cato the Rebel Without a Party at August 12, 2016 02:13 PM (HalrA)

268 I still havent watched the tenth episode yet.

Oops. *SPOILER*

Posted by: Grump928(C) reminds you at August 12, 2016 02:13 PM (rwI+c)

269 The left desperately fears and loathes him and HRC is on a mission to take the Whitehouse at all costs so the real concern now is: how do we prevent rampant voter fraud come November?

Posted by: RondinellaMamma at August 12, 2016 02:08 PM (oQQwD)

---------------

I don't think the left fears him, though they do loath him personally. He's a great weapon to hammer Republicans with and he will be for years to come. He's going to do significant damage to GOP Congressional candidates, which does matter, even if many of them are spineless weasels. And, if by some fluke, he gets into office, he'll push a lot of things the left likes (massive infrastructure spending, no entitlement reform, pro-choice policies) and probably get more GOP votes then Clinton could.

So, even though they are running a corrupt felon many of them hate, I think the Dems are pretty happy right now.

Posted by: person(a non grata) at August 12, 2016 02:13 PM (mFkVC)

270

And where was Briann for the big battle for Sansa??

Posted by: M Magoo's at August 12, 2016 02:13 PM (8PrS9)

271 Is ace saying McCain writes the songs and those songs are shitty?

Posted by: Dr Spank at August 12, 2016 02:13 PM (4e+hS)

272 261 Thing is, if I have to support the guy and knock down unfair attacks and bullshit from the media and family members, I want to get a prize for it, something I want. Not too sure I can see exactly what I'm winning if Trump wins.

No camps.
------------------
Teh lamentations of teh wymynz.

Posted by: Puddin Head at August 12, 2016 02:13 PM (oDCMR)

273 Look, you have to understand that McCain said that a long time ago! We've learned a lot since then!

Since McCain made his remarks, we've seen immigrants knife people, blow shit up, rape children...

...Hang on. I thought I had a point.

I'm gonna work on this and get back to you.

Posted by: RKae at August 12, 2016 02:13 PM (CYNno)

274 Ace is only trying to explain the low level flunkies who are only the useful idiots, the tools being used by:

The Chamber of Commerce + Soros + Globalists + Neocons + Islamists

They are all working together. May seem like strange bedfellows but it is what it is. What the want aligns. Open borders is paramount to all of them.

It's MONEY and POWER that make them call you racist. Nothing more. They KNOW YOU ARE NOT RACISTS. That's not the point. Up until now it's worked for them. It's one of the only cards they have to play.

The racist, homophobic, islamophobic, etc. gambit is just that a gambit. Tools to be used.

Posted by: #NeverHillary at August 12, 2016 02:13 PM (/So8Q)

275
I've stated this several times before here, but my theory about McCain is that he's an unmitigated prick with a serious problem with authority. Which explains both his Congressional dickfuckery and his heroism as a POW.

When you look at everything in his life, he was largely an underachiever, mostly due to his inability to respect authority. Nearly last in his Annapolis class, persistent discipline problems in the Navy etc. And when he was shot down, the North Vietnamese got a snoot full of defiance, not because he was genuinely heroic and honorable, but because they were the guys who happened to be in charge, and McCain is all about defying the people in charge.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at August 12, 2016 02:13 PM (xxSK3)

276 250 It seems to me we are so far gone now that all really is lost.

The operative question now is: How to preserve the idea of America and it's principles and history as a beacon for future generations, in the face of the determined efforts of the new aristocracy?
Posted by: MTF at August 12, 2016 02:09 PM (/m8T6)

This is what worries me the most. When the collapse happens, and it will, we need to have enough people remember the important principles. The longer we drag this out, the worse we're going to be in the aftermath, because the left's stranglehold over institutions of learning will ensure that fewer and fewer people really understand good political philosophy.

Posted by: joe, living dangerously at August 12, 2016 02:14 PM (KUaJL)

277 The thing that I think may "conservatives" don't like about populism is
the direct challenge to the privilege of the elites, or the self-vaunted
elites, in any case; they have status (or they believe they have
status, or should have status) and object quite emotionally to this
unschooled, unshoed rabble presuming to be their equals.

There is of course another, less cynical, reason to be opposed, or at least highly skeptical, of populist movements: the concept of tyranny of the majority, that the mob is not always right or just, and that a justly elected little-r republican government should temper the passions of the mob and not let the mob get its way when the mob proposes something particularly dangerous or awful. And that type of thinking used to be part and parcel of small-c conservatism, emanating all the way from Edmund Burke, who saw the horrors of the mob after the French Revolution up close and personal. Sadly with Trumpism it is becoming less popular.

Posted by: chemjeff at August 12, 2016 02:14 PM (5115x)

278 The latest media freakout is over Trump's statement regarding ISIS, and the role of Obama and Clinton in its rise.

They have and are going nuts about the hyperbole.

No what they are not talking about?

Dancing horses.
Car elevators.
Dogs on the station wagon roof.
Giving people cancer.
Etc.

It is interesting watching the difference as the MSM is set on the defensive.

Posted by: *Mikey NTH - Know Your Place! The Outrage Outlet has Official DNC Oppression Hierarchy Cards! at August 12, 2016 02:14 PM (hLRSq)

279 Hillary is a foreign policy adventurer who armed ISIS and the butchers of benghazi. And lied and jailed a video maker to cover her tracks.

Trump won't. Seems like a good deal to me

Posted by: ThunderB at August 12, 2016 02:14 PM (YffHy)

280 I can only assume you were either too young to remember or not born yet in the 1980's.He was actually considered the living,breathingpersonification of the ideal alpha male of the times

Um. No.

I lived in NYC for the 80s. The Wollman Rink thing was a good thing.

Other than that he was an asshole.

Posted by: Bandersnatch at August 12, 2016 02:14 PM (mgbwf)

281 I can only assume you were either too young to remember or not born yet in the 1980's.He was actually considered the living,breathingpersonification of the ideal alpha male of the times

Trump had nothing to do with Hulkamania, brother.
That was ground zero for alpha manliness in the 80s.
That, or Magnum PI's moustache.

Posted by: wooga at August 12, 2016 02:15 PM (RUOyw)

282 What if the mob is right chem Jeff

Posted by: ThunderB at August 12, 2016 02:15 PM (YffHy)

283 >>kinda like your poasts here, eh?
Posted by: redc1c4 at August 12, 2016 02:12 PM (KSKy7)

The fuck?

Yeah, I'm out.

Posted by: Lea at August 12, 2016 02:16 PM (lIU4e)

284 @8: " they think they are princes able to lord it over the proles and serfs."

And to date, the response of the proles and serfs only serves to reinforce that belief. Most of the public is quite content to be ruled.

Posted by: FaCubeItches at August 12, 2016 02:16 PM (rznWS)

285 I can only assume you were either too young to remember or not born yet in the 1980's.He was actually considered the living,breathingpersonification of the ideal alpha male of the times
Posted by: Flawless Male Logic at August 12, 2016 02:12 PM (lKyWE)

I remember very clearly and... um... some people might have considered him that, but most saw him as a joke.

We really need to have a discussion about what an alpha male is. People seem to picture Biff Tannen instead of John Wayne.

Posted by: person(a non grata) at August 12, 2016 02:16 PM (mFkVC)

286
The last I saw Brienne, she was in a rowboat fleeing a castle.

Posted by: M Magoo's at August 12, 2016 02:16 PM (8PrS9)

287 272
261 Thing is, if I have to support the guy and knock down unfair attacks
and bullshit from the media and family members, I want to get a prize
for it, something I want. Not too sure I can see exactly what I'm
winning if Trump wins.

No camps.

------------------

Teh lamentations of teh wymynz.

Posted by: Puddin Head at August 12, 2016 02:13 PM (oDCMR)

If Trump wins, what do we win? The preservation of the Rule of Law. Charges will almost certainly be brought against Hillary once Comey is fired, and the illegal actions of the Obama Administration will be open to investigation, instead of protected, covered up, or pardoned.

Posted by: Cato the Rebel Without a Party at August 12, 2016 02:16 PM (HalrA)

288 Other than that he was an asshole.
Posted by: Bandersnatch at August 12, 2016 02:14 PM (mgbwf)

Yeah so that would make him the first asshole to ever serve in Washington DC?

Posted by: Nevergiveup at August 12, 2016 02:17 PM (Ozsfq)

289 278 The latest media freakout is over Trump's statement regarding ISIS, and the role of Obama and Clinton in its rise.

They have and are going nuts about the hyperbole.

No what they are not talking about?

Dancing horses.
Car elevators.
Dogs on the station wagon roof.
Giving people cancer.
Etc.

It is interesting watching the difference as the MSM is set on the defensive.
-----------------------
Trump is a master at comms -

Shock - Label - Explain. Works every time.

Posted by: Puddin Head at August 12, 2016 02:18 PM (oDCMR)

290 The difference, of course, is that everyone knew John McCain was lying,

-
We live in an age where lying is acceptable and telling the truth is not.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Now With More Je Ne Sais Quoi! at August 12, 2016 02:18 PM (Nwg0u)

291 >>If Trump wins, what do we win? The preservation of the Rule of Law.

That's kind of a stretch given that Trump is under investigation or in litigation in multiple states for fraud.

Best just to stick with the fact that Trump isn't Hillary. None of us have any idea what he will do about anything.

Posted by: JackStraw at August 12, 2016 02:18 PM (/tuJf)

292 Build the dang fence!

Posted by: John McSkidmark at August 12, 2016 02:19 PM (TBmsQ)

293 Obama and Hillary armed ISIS. Several times. They should own it

Posted by: ThunderB at August 12, 2016 02:19 PM (YffHy)

294
Rickon was dead weight anyway. Absolutely meaningless to the show.

Hodo, on the utter hand...

Posted by: M Magoo's at August 12, 2016 02:19 PM (8PrS9)

295 Other than that he was an asshole.
Posted by: Bandersnatch at August 12, 2016 02:14 PM (mgbwf)

Yeah so that would make him the first asshole to ever serve in Washington DC?
Posted by: Nevergiveup

Or the first asshole to come from NYC?

Posted by: rickb223 TEXIT at August 12, 2016 02:19 PM (UYkjZ)

296 kinda like your poasts here, eh?

Posted by: redc1c4 at August 12, 2016 02:12 PM (KSKy7)

Don't be a dick.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at August 12, 2016 02:20 PM (Zu3d9)

297 276 250 It seems to me we are so far gone now that all really is lost.

The operative question now is: How to preserve the idea of America and it's principles and history as a beacon for future generations, in the face of the determined efforts of the new aristocracy?
Posted by: MTF at August 12, 2016 02:09 PM (/m8T6)

This is what worries me the most. When the collapse happens, and it will, we need to have enough people remember the important principles. The longer we drag this out, the worse we're going to be in the aftermath, because the left's stranglehold over institutions of learning will ensure that fewer and fewer people really understand good political philosophy.
Posted by: joe, living dangerously at August 12, 2016 02:14 PM (KUaJL)

This is pretty much where I'm at. I don't see this ship righting. The culture is way too far gone and with the culture goes the whole shebang. I'm doing my damnedest to teach my kids about America as it was designed, and the importance of values, morals, and standards, but I'm one person with two children. Hopefully there are more like me out there, but the vast majority of folks I know personally just shove their progeny into the public indoctrination centers and cheer with glee that they're out of the house for eight to ten hours a day so they don't have to deal with them. How on earth we fix this mess with elections when the populace is the polar opposite of plugged in and has zero in the way of knowledge about basic civics, is beyond me.

Posted by: Mandy P. (Not Patinkin), lurking lurker who lurks at August 12, 2016 02:20 PM (KkVB6)

298 What if the mob is right chem Jeff

----

Per Reagan, always trust the American people, not the government

Posted by: Bigbys Olive Fingers at August 12, 2016 02:20 PM (0o/oP)

299 McCain is as narcissistic as anyone in politics now including Obama. Some narcissism is a positive for leaders but full blown narcissism is a trait you don't want in a leader.

Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck at August 12, 2016 02:20 PM (+P27u)

300 is there a script available to skip certain commenters ?

Posted by: runner at August 12, 2016 02:20 PM (c6/9Q)

301
I lived in NYC for the 80s. The Wollman Rink thing was a good thing. Other than that he was an asshole.
Posted by: Bandersnatch at August 12, 2016 02:14 PM (mgbwf)

And the rest of NYCfelt the same way?

Posted by: Flawless Male Logic at August 12, 2016 02:20 PM (lKyWE)

302

Progs like "getting over" on people they deem stupid...I've seen it so many times.

IMO, these idiots are showing that they actually are progs, and we can expect all the behaviors of the insane progs to carry through the whatever the hell they are called now.

Walks like a prog, talks like a prog...

I also notice that there is a lot of hive mind attitudes, as if they got talking points..."oh, I can't believe you have so much power!" type of shit.

That has to be astroturfed to deflect.

The GOP Borg sickened me for years, they've unveiled themselves as the progs they are this election...

Posted by: Rev Dr E Buzz The Main Dude My Man Esq at August 12, 2016 02:20 PM (sItQg)

303 There is of course another, less cynical, reason to be opposed, or at least highly skeptical, of populist movements: the concept of tyranny of the majority, that the mob is not always right or just, and that a justly elected little-r republican government should temper the passions of the mob and not let the mob get its way when the mob proposes something particularly dangerous or awful. And that type of thinking used to be part and parcel of small-c conservatism, emanating all the way from Edmund Burke, who saw the horrors of the mob after the French Revolution up close and personal. Sadly with Trumpism it is becoming less popular.
Posted by: chemjeff at August 12, 2016 02:14 PM (5115x)

This a thousand times. Populism should terrify conservatives. Our system is brilliantly set up to but breaks on populism at multiple levels.

Populism tends to be about huge, emotionally driven changes. It tends to feel that all problems have extremely simple answers and are only prevented from being solved by a conspiracy, usually involving some hated group. It's outcomes are often terrible.

It can't be said enough - we had the American, not the French Revolution, and that is one of the main reasons this is a great nation.

Posted by: person(a non grata) at August 12, 2016 02:20 PM (mFkVC)

304 Posted by: chemjeff at August 12, 2016 02:14 PM (5115x)

And sometimes the majority gets it right, like right now. I realize there's good reason to be afraid of the tyranny of the majority, but right now, we've got a severe case of tyranny of a small minority. The DC political scene is running the entire country, to the detriment of the average American, for their own personal profit. These people, hardcore globalists all, have to be stopped, their projects have to be dismantled, we need someone to go in like a wrecking ball. We need to gum up the gears of their machinery.

Posted by: Cato the Rebel Without a Party at August 12, 2016 02:20 PM (HalrA)

305 293 Obama and Hillary armed ISIS. Several times. They should own it
----------------
Yep, Hillary was running guns to ISIS from Qaddafi's stash when things went pear shaped - as they always do with Hillary.

Posted by: Puddin Head at August 12, 2016 02:20 PM (oDCMR)

306 is there a script available to skip certain commenters ?

Posted by: runner

Yeah, it's like $40, send me your credit card info.

Posted by: Dr Spank at August 12, 2016 02:21 PM (4e+hS)

307 Eternal Principles of Constant Consistency. Trump must, McCain and Romney not so much.

I'm Jim Geraghty and I approve of this message.

Posted by: LIV at August 12, 2016 02:22 PM (bsDXW)

308 Per Reagan, always trust the American people, not the government
Posted by: Bigbys Olive Fingers at August 12, 2016 02:20 PM (0o/oP)

Absolute power - even disproportionate power - must not be given to any individual or group, not even the mass of the American people.

Posted by: person(a non grata) at August 12, 2016 02:23 PM (mFkVC)

309 >>The latest media freakout is over Trump's statement regarding ISIS, and the role of Obama and Clinton in its rise.

Which is funny, because for years we've been told...

...Reagan created AIDS to kill gays and invented crack to kill blacks
...Bust caused 9/11 (may have even masterminded it!!) and also responsible for hurricane Katrina (should've signed Kyoto Protocol)
...Palin is responsible for Gabby Giffords being shot
...Mitt Romney killed an employee's wife with cancer

Posted by: Lizzy at August 12, 2016 02:23 PM (NOIQH)

310 It's a great nation because we ignored the wishes of the majority to be ruled by an enlightened elite

Is that the argument never trumps?

Seriously. Do better

Posted by: ThunderB at August 12, 2016 02:23 PM (YffHy)

311 Yep, Hillary was running guns to ISIS from Qaddafi's stash when things went pear shaped - as they always do with Hillary.
Posted by: Puddin Head

Has Her Thighness ever done anything that hasn't been either a disaster or criminal or both?

Posted by: Prince Ludwig the #Problematic at August 12, 2016 02:23 PM (07Q15)

312 We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. -- That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed.

Filthy unwashed masses, those Founders.

Posted by: Insomniac at August 12, 2016 02:23 PM (0mRoj)

313 When the collapse happens, and it will, we need to have enough people remember the important principles.

Ah ... but there's the trick, now ain't it ? Exactly what "principles" would you care to remember ?

Because first asshole that starts yelling Democracy and Universal Suffrage gets shot. Right alongside the dude that wants to re-adopt the Constitution. No thank you.

Call me an anti-federalist. I think recent events support my position.

Posted by: ScoggDog at August 12, 2016 02:23 PM (jyInK)

314 Bullshit...ref calls off USA Score on an bullshit offsides

Posted by: Nevergiveup at August 12, 2016 02:24 PM (Ozsfq)

315 263
Also, Trump has been a joke, a trashy tabloid celebrity, a Paris Hilton before Paris Hilton, since the 80s. The idea that he is a vulgar buffoon is not new.
Posted by: person(a non grata) at August 12, 2016 02:03 PM (mFkVC)

I can only assume you were either too young to remember or not born yet in the 1980's.He was actually considered the living,breathingpersonification of the ideal alpha male of the times
Posted by: Flawless Male Logic at August 12, 2016 02:12 PM (lKyWE)

You're kidding right?

Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck at August 12, 2016 02:24 PM (+P27u)

316 @If Trump wins, what do we win? The preservation of the Rule of Law. Charges will almost certainly be brought against Hillary once Comey is fired, and the illegal actions of the Obama Administration will be open to investigation, instead of protected, covered up, or pardoned.
----------------------

Charges filed?

Maybe.

Remember that Trump was friends with the Clintons. I suspect that he'd only bring charges against Hillary if there was a particularly pressing reason to do so. And once he was in office, "The fact that some of the base is howling for her scalp" probably wouldn't be enough in and of itself.

Posted by: junior at August 12, 2016 02:24 PM (amCAe)

317 "I didn't sign up for this."

Then maybe you should hang out on gardening threads and stop trying to sabotage people on whose side you say you are on.

At a minimum, 80% of us are for are adult enough to see that Hillary must never become president.

Posted by: #NeverHillary at August 12, 2016 02:24 PM (/So8Q)

318 TRUE STORY: How @WeSearchr Uncovered The @SenJohnMcCain Vietnam Propaganda Tapes After 50 YEARS Of Silence

After almost 50 years of silence, the research team behind WeSearchr.com uncovered audio tapes that John McCain made while captured by the communist North Vietnamese government in 1969.

The audio was of a communist propaganda broadcast McCain voiced intended to demoralize American troops in Vietnam. Those troops in the Vietnamese jungle were the last people to hear these tapes - until this week.

http://tinyurl.com/hksqe8q
(gotnews.com)

Links to the audio clips are at the above link.

Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at August 12, 2016 02:24 PM (R+30W)

319 Now they call off a Swedish goal on offsides...well 2 bad calls

Posted by: Nevergiveup at August 12, 2016 02:24 PM (Ozsfq)

320 wow. The US and Sweden both just scored goals that were called back.

Posted by: JackStraw at August 12, 2016 02:25 PM (/tuJf)

321 Minding drug and human smuggling, home invasions, and murder is racist, pig, and you deserve to die!

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Now With More Je Ne Sais Quoi! at August 12, 2016 02:25 PM (Nwg0u)

322 Sure Trump's an asshole. He also altered the skyline of NYC, and various other parts, dealing with borough Presidents, union bosses, and other hyenas over decades that make regular politicians look like kittens. It's like terraforming the moon. You're looking up at a green moon and saying What an asshole

Posted by: Bigbys Olive Fingers at August 12, 2016 02:25 PM (0o/oP)

323 None of this shit is born of anti-Mexican animus, we would have the same anger if it were millions upon millions of French speaking Canadians streaming over the northern boarder displacing indigenous Americans.

The point is elites have made a decision that they would like to elect a new peope, it's time the people fought back.

We do not need to be a country of 400, 500 or 600 million people but that's the trajectory we are on if it's not stopped.

Posted by: Kreplach at August 12, 2016 02:25 PM (qQkQd)

324 I know Ace has been pimping the "educated" elites vs the "uneducated" fly over rubes paradigm. And I don't fully disagree. But I see the split differently and this example helps spell it out.
It is the progressives (the entire left...including the socialists and all of those left of that) and the corporatists (the GOPe and their ilk...Captain McSpittle, Ryan, et al) vs the conservatives (Cruz, Cotton, Tea Party remnants, etc) and the nationalists (Trump, maybe some libertarians).

The left side of that equation is pretty damn big. College edumacated doesn't have much to do with it. There aren't many self made man types running around as the voice of the conservative movement (well, Rush I guess)...most of them went to the same institutions. They just had a strong enough head on their shoulders and a good enough family to allow them to not be brainwashed.

Posted by: ajmojo at August 12, 2016 02:26 PM (1H9ox)

325 If Trump wins, what do we win? The preservation of the Rule of Law. Charges will almost certainly be brought against Hillary once Comey is fired, and the illegal actions of the Obama Administration will be open to investigation, instead of protected, covered up, or pardoned.

------------

How sure are you of this?

Posted by: SH at August 12, 2016 02:26 PM (gmeXX)

326 chicom swimmer busted for doping

Posted by: runner at August 12, 2016 02:26 PM (c6/9Q)

327

Also remember: the Demcrats also blamed Paul Ryan for Benghazi!!

Yes, it was Paul.Ryan's and th Republicans fault. Yet another bullshit slanderous lie that went down the memory hole never to be mentioned again.

Posted by: M Magoo's at August 12, 2016 02:26 PM (8PrS9)

328 Trump's word is good ("better than a signed contract" says one associate) even though he is a bit of a bullshitter with a penchant for puffery--big penchant. His kids seem good, exes speak well of him and seems more comfortable with the blue collar than pinstripes (his employees speak well of him or you would courtesy of the pressholes have a huge parade of them bitching 24/7). Instead of golfing and banging his hot wife, he is busting his ass with 2 massive rallies a day and meetings and interviews in between and shows no sign of slowing. Oh, and he has put his life and the lives of his family at great risk. Sessions and Giuliani would not hitch their wagons to Trump's train if they thought he was a shill for Hillary or had no moral compass and good intentions. All the people/orgs against him (MFM, 'rats, GOPe, globalists, DC elites, NRO, leftist racists (La Raza/CAIR), asshole foreign leaders etc.) are the enemy of the state, military, family and yours truly.

Because of this, I am comfortable with him and look forward to his presidency where he is going to please the main of the body politic, surprise many naysayers and drive the left fucking kabonkers. I fret but hold high hopes.

To the concern trolls, latent hillbots and NeverTrumpers: Fuck you. With a pineapple. Sideways. Repeatedly. You are and will be shown to be losers and a pox on your dishonest houses. ~spit~

Posted by: oddknot still frets at August 12, 2016 02:26 PM (g1MTt)

329 310 It's a great nation because we ignored the wishes of the majority to be ruled by an enlightened elite

Is that the argument never trumps?

Seriously. Do better
Posted by: ThunderB at August 12, 2016 02:23 PM (YffHy)

Right now, the government, particularly the executive, has far too much power. We need to change that. But Trump, who fully supports that consolidation of power, is exactly the wrong person to do it.

Which is another thing populism tends to do - gravitate to a strong man even when what is needed is a weakening of elite power.

Posted by: person(a non grata) at August 12, 2016 02:26 PM (mFkVC)

330 I hope no one is taping those games to watch later, like people with jobs.

Posted by: Dr Spank at August 12, 2016 02:27 PM (4e+hS)

331 Unfair to smear with propaganda tapes made after terrible torture

Totally unfair

Posted by: ThunderB at August 12, 2016 02:27 PM (YffHy)

332 chicom swimmer busted for doping
Posted by: runner at August 12, 2016 02:26 PM (c6/9Q)

Yeah but it was only a little doping and she was hungry an hour later

Posted by: Nevergiveup at August 12, 2016 02:27 PM (Ozsfq)

333 Because first asshole that starts yelling Democracy and Universal Suffrage gets shot. Right alongside the dude that wants to re-adopt the Constitution. No thank you.

Call me an anti-federalist. I think recent events support my position.

^^^

I'm still a fan of Levin's liberty amendments idea. Power needs to be severely devolved back to states and localities so we're not in this do or die position with presidential elections every four years. And the Feds need their hands tied in just about everything except defense, and even then there's room for improvement.

Posted by: Mandy P. (Not Patinkin), lurking lurker who lurks at August 12, 2016 02:27 PM (KkVB6)

334 323 None of this shit is born of anti-Mexican animus, we would have the same anger if it were millions upon millions of French speaking Canadians streaming over the northern boarder displacing indigenous Americans.

Sure. They'd probably be raping, murdering and driving drunk a bit less, but still.

Posted by: Insomniac at August 12, 2016 02:28 PM (0mRoj)

335 Posted by: Bigbys Olive Fingers at August 12, 2016 02:25 PM (0o/oP)

Trump is down the list regard to developers in NYC. He is definitely the most well known though.

Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck at August 12, 2016 02:28 PM (+P27u)

336 The point is elites have made a decision that they would like to elect a new peope, it's time the people fought back.

----

The Democrats want a new, big voting block.

The Republican Establishment wants cheap labor.

They both could give a flying flip about national and social identities or even unintended consequences.

It.is.as.simple.as.that.

Posted by: fixerupper at August 12, 2016 02:28 PM (8XRCm)

337 But Trump, who fully supports that consolidation of power, is exactly the wrong person to do it.

????

And he has done WHAT for you make that assertion?

Posted by: Nevergiveup at August 12, 2016 02:28 PM (Ozsfq)

338 And that type of thinking used to be part and parcel of small-c conservatism, emanating all the way from Edmund Burke, who saw the horrors of the mob after the French Revolution up close and personal. Sadly with Trumpism it is becoming less popular.

Here's the thing: It failed. The safeguards were eroded, slowly at first, then at increasing speed. People are looking at the degraded, shambling zombie that was the republic, looking at what it brings them, and saying, "eff that". It is ultimately irrelevant whether the sentiment is entirely justified, only that the concept has been popularly discredited.

Two hundred forty years of goodwill towards those concepts are up in smoke. How do you get that back? What are you willing to do to get it back?

Posted by: Brother Cavil, down with Eph 6:12-13 at August 12, 2016 02:28 PM (9krrF)

339
You're kidding right?
Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck at August 12, 2016 02:24 PM (+P27u)

Nope

Posted by: Flawless Male Logic at August 12, 2016 02:28 PM (lKyWE)

340 How sure are you of this?
Posted by: SH at August 12, 2016 02:26 PM (gmeXX)

Bear in mind that Trump just came out for trying US citizens in military tribunals.

(Yes, I know Obama kills them with drones. That's also unacceptably terrible.)

Posted by: person(a non grata) at August 12, 2016 02:28 PM (mFkVC)

341 Trump is seventy. He has wanted to be "special" all his life. This is his chance to be Ronald Reagan. I figure there is a fifty fifty chance he accomplishes good works. I KNOW Hillary! Will sell technology and allies to the ChiComs for cash money.

Posted by: New Phone at August 12, 2016 02:29 PM (QD9b6)

342 I think it's dishonest, elitist. And wildly anti democratic to claim the majority must defer to their elites betters

Posted by: ThunderB at August 12, 2016 02:29 PM (YffHy)

343
Nobdy even mentioned how Paul Ryan was blamed for Benghazi while the media was frantically defending hillary after Ms Smith spoke at the convention.

Posted by: M Magoo's at August 12, 2016 02:29 PM (8PrS9)

344 What concerns me about McCain is not that he made propaganda tapes for
the VC, it's his terrible flying skills, he cost the taxpayers a lot of
money.

Posted by: Dr Spank at August 12, 2016 02:29 PM (4e+hS)

345 The Democrats want a new, big voting block.

The Republican Establishment wants cheap labor.

They both could give a flying flip about national and social identities or even unintended consequences.

It.is.as.simple.as.that.

This is now undeniable.

Posted by: Continental drift at August 12, 2016 02:30 PM (qUNWi)

346 Ah ... but there's the trick, now ain't it ? Exactly what "principles" would you care to remember ?

Because first asshole that starts yelling Democracy and Universal Suffrage gets shot. Right alongside the dude that wants to re-adopt the Constitution. No thank you.

Call me an anti-federalist. I think recent events support my position.
Posted by: ScoggDog at August 12, 2016 02:23 PM (jyInK)

Given the state of general education, I'd be willing to bet that whatever post-america looks like is going to be based on much less solid ground than the Constitution, rather than better.

Posted by: joe, living dangerously at August 12, 2016 02:30 PM (KUaJL)

347 Uh oh. Looking like penalty kicks will be needed to settle this US/Sweden match.

Is it pucker time yet?

Posted by: Hope Solo at August 12, 2016 02:30 PM (H9MG5)

348 And he has done WHAT for you make that assertion?
Posted by: Nevergiveup at August 12, 2016 02:28 PM (Ozsfq)

----

Dick punched a baby.

Duh.

Posted by: fixerupper at August 12, 2016 02:30 PM (8XRCm)

349 310
It's a great nation because we ignored the wishes of the majority to be ruled by an enlightened elite

Is that the argument never trumps?

Seriously. Do better

Posted by: ThunderB at August 12, 2016 02:23 PM (YffHy)
To a degree, yeah it is. The majority should never be *fully* ignored. The elite's opinions should never be immune from criticism. But the way the federal system is set up, notably different from parliamentary systems, is that there is an intentional degree of separation between the people and the representatives.
We basically have the trustee model of representation, as opposed to the delegate model of representation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trustee_model_of_representation
The representatives are empowered to act in our stead, and to overrule our wishes if they believe it would be detrimental overall. Of course if we don't like their ignoring our opinions, we get to vote them out.

Posted by: chemjeff at August 12, 2016 02:30 PM (5115x)

350 McCain spends 6 years in DC doing what he wants, then comes home saying what the AZ voters want to hear. I voted for him one time when I first moved here long ago; not once since. As for the dreaded H, I remember the Clinton years too well. This older female will not be voting for her, no way, no how.

Posted by: AlmostYuman at August 12, 2016 02:30 PM (zNmjH)

351 Person your arguments are dishonorable

Posted by: ThunderB at August 12, 2016 02:30 PM (YffHy)

352 You know, I don't mind the idea of elites. The Founding Fathers were elite - a damn smarter than most and thus they came up with a system of government and a Constitution that worked pretty well for over 200 years.

What I object to is that today's elites aren't really anything special. They are credentialed and indoctrinated but not educated. And they, unlike the Founding Fathers, want to run every aspect of my existence. They're incompetent. They have a narrow and cliched understanding of history, of other cultures, of economics.

One of the most galling things about These Stupid Times is that dumb people, really clueless, people think they're smarter than everyone else.

Crap, even the decadent sleazebag royals and aristos of pre-1789 France at least patronized Moliere and some excellent writers and artists. Today they patronize: Lena Dunham. We're not even getting good art out of this.

Posted by: Donna and V. (sans ampersands at the present time) at August 12, 2016 02:30 PM (u0lmX)

353 Anyone who can drive Michael Moore further insane can't be all bad:

http://tinyurl.com/j8rnohl

This is what I am seeing from the left as typical reactions to Trump, and yes, I am enjoying it.

Posted by: RondinellaMamma at August 12, 2016 02:30 PM (oQQwD)

354 Drift away little continent.

Posted by: eleven at August 12, 2016 02:30 PM (qUNWi)

355 How sure are you of this?
Posted by: SH at August 12, 2016 02:26 PM (gmeXX)

Bear in mind that Trump just came out for trying US citizens in military tribunals.

(Yes, I know Obama kills them with drones. That's also unacceptably terrible.)

------------

I'm all in favor of investigating Hillary or bringing charges or investigating other things. I just don't see it happening. And I would say the same if the nominee were someone else.

Posted by: SH at August 12, 2016 02:31 PM (gmeXX)

356 Which is another thing populism tends to do - gravitate to a strong man even when what is needed is a weakening of elite power.

Posted by: person(a non grata) at August 12, 2016 02:26 PM (mFkVC)

We're not going to get that weakening with President Hillary. Suffer through Trump, impeach him if he does anything dictatorial, and carry on. At least we have that lever against Trump, he can't play the Sexism card to defend himself, and the media wouldn't rally to his defense. We've already seen what a Hillary Presidency would be like. It'd be just like the our present Historic First, which this country has barely endured.

Posted by: Cato the Rebel Without a Party at August 12, 2016 02:31 PM (HalrA)

357 342 I think it's dishonest, elitist. And wildly anti democratic to claim the majority must defer to their elites betters
Posted by: ThunderB at August 12, 2016 02:29 PM (YffHy)

-----------

Again, the power of the elites must also be constrained - checks and balances, etc. and so on.

Posted by: person(a non grata) at August 12, 2016 02:31 PM (mFkVC)

358 Well it appears we going to penalty kicks between USA and Sweden

I hate that.

Well here we go

Posted by: Nevergiveup at August 12, 2016 02:31 PM (Ozsfq)

359 chicom swimmer busted for doping
Posted by: runner

Wow. There's a headline I never thought I'd see!

Posted by: rickb223 TEXIT at August 12, 2016 02:31 PM (UYkjZ)

360 Chem Jeff argues for nobility. We don't have that here

Royalists=never trump

Posted by: ThunderB at August 12, 2016 02:33 PM (YffHy)

361 Hopes gonna have to reach deep and pull a win out!

Posted by: eleven at August 12, 2016 02:33 PM (qUNWi)

362 We're not going to get that weakening with President Hillary. Suffer through Trump, impeach him if he does anything dictatorial, and carry on. At least we have that lever against Trump, he can't play the Sexism card to defend himself, and the media wouldn't rally to his defense. We've already seen what a Hillary Presidency would be like. It'd be just like the our present Historic First, which this country has barely endured.
Posted by: Cato the Rebel Without a Party at August 12, 2016 02:31 PM (HalrA)
----------------------------

If you elect Trump and impeach him, you're not likely to see another Republican president for a while.

Posted by: person(a non grata) at August 12, 2016 02:33 PM (mFkVC)

363 Don't be a dick.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at August 12, 2016 02:20 PM (Zu3d9)

i'd apologize, except for the fact that i'm tired of concern trolls being concerned.

how was i to know that this one had such a thin skin that one honest observation would cause them to flounce?

(and why is that a bad thing?)

Posted by: redc1c4 at August 12, 2016 02:33 PM (KSKy7)

364 Pffffttt

Posted by: ThunderB at August 12, 2016 02:33 PM (YffHy)

365 Trump is down the list regard to developers in NYC. He is definitely the most well known though.

Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck at August 12, 2016 02:28 PM (+P27u)

Trump was one of the best developers in NYC. He got famous because he was building when everyone else was too scared to build. The Trump Tower opened while New York was still not out of it near-default/recession and the Trump Tower went on to be the first residential building to sell at over $1000/sq-ft.

Trump also had a reputation for being one of the most efficient and competent developers in a city where building is no mean feat.

Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at August 12, 2016 02:33 PM (zc3Db)

366 Well, if people are going to spill Olympic results, see ya Monday. Sad!

Posted by: Dr Spank at August 12, 2016 02:33 PM (4e+hS)

367 If you elect Trump and impeach him, you're not likely to see another Republican president for a while.

Posted by: person(a non grata) at August 12, 2016 02:33 PM (mFkVC)

If we elect Hillary, the country goes solid blue forever when she opens the borers and creates a pathway to citizenship.

Given the alternative, it's a risk we'll have to take.

Posted by: Cato the Rebel Without a Party at August 12, 2016 02:34 PM (HalrA)

368 I can't look. **turns away**

Posted by: Hope Solo's little brown eye at August 12, 2016 02:34 PM (H9MG5)

369 Huh....so Swedish people really are blonde.

Posted by: eleven at August 12, 2016 02:34 PM (qUNWi)

370 Posted by: Flawless Male Logic at August 12, 2016 02:28 PM (lKyWE)

That was sarcasm on my part because no way Trump was considered the ideal alpha male except by himself and other wannabes with no moral compass in the 80's. May have been the same people who thought John Gotti was a hero.

Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck at August 12, 2016 02:34 PM (+P27u)

371 351 Person your arguments are dishonorable
Posted by: ThunderB at August 12, 2016 02:30 PM (YffHy)
-------------

ThunderB, I don't think you understand what I and Chemjeff are saying.

I think you are confusing the American and the French Revolution.

Posted by: person(a non grata) at August 12, 2016 02:35 PM (mFkVC)

372 It is ultimately irrelevant whether the sentiment is entirely justified, only that the concept has been popularly discredited.

Well then, if we are going to throw out the idea that government ought to behave in a proper manner, then maybe I should just join the ranks of the FSA and vote for whomever gives me the most free shit. If we're going to throw propriety out the window, why not?

Posted by: chemjeff at August 12, 2016 02:35 PM (5115x)

373 Bear in mind that Trump just came out for trying US citizens in military tribunals.

Yeah and so? I think it is a good idea . And it was only those Americans accused of terrorism. And it would require a re-write of the law by Congress and Judicial review. I doubt that would happen, but I like the idea. And as long as it is done along those lines, it would be Constitutional.

Posted by: Nevergiveup at August 12, 2016 02:35 PM (Ozsfq)

374 Well it appears we going to penalty kicks between USA and Sweden
...
I hate penalty kicks (or shots in hockey) to decide a winner. To spend an entire match beating each others brains out on the field and then have the winner decided by the equivalent of being a professional rock scissors paper match is asinine.
Play the actual game until there is a winner. No ties. I don't care if after 7 overtimes there is only one person able to walk...that person wins for their team.
Actually, not only don't I care...that would be frigging awesome to watch.

Posted by: ajmojo at August 12, 2016 02:35 PM (1H9ox)

375 Oh, and at least the elites of an earlier day understood the importance of defending and safeguarding their nation. They fought for their countries, they might have been officers and gentlemen but in battle they got shot up and killed just like the lowly foot soldiers.

Needless to say, that's not the case now. They don't risk their own necks, ever, and are indifferent to the deaths of ordinary people.

Posted by: Donna and V. (sans ampersands at the present time) at August 12, 2016 02:35 PM (u0lmX)

376 Never trumpers advocate for royalty

Posted by: ThunderB at August 12, 2016 02:35 PM (YffHy)

377 Well, if people are going to spill Olympic results, see ya Monday. Sad!

Posted by: Dr Spank at August 12, 2016 02:33 PM (4e+hS)

Blame NBC for not airing live action and then trying to pawn off the taped airings as "live".

Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at August 12, 2016 02:35 PM (zc3Db)

378 334 323 None of this shit is born of anti-Mexican animus, we would have the same anger if it were millions upon millions of French speaking Canadians streaming over the northern boarder displacing indigenous Americans.

Sure. They'd probably be raping, murdering and driving drunk a bit less, but still.
Posted by: Insomniac at August 12, 2016 02:28 PM (0mRoj)

But the beer swilling males of the species will bring their pot bellies and speedos everywhere.

Posted by: Northernlurker at August 12, 2016 02:36 PM (hJrjt)

379 The difference, of course, is that everyone knew John McCain was lying,

-
We live in an age where lying is acceptable and telling the truth is not.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Now With More Je Ne Sais Quoi!

----

Anyone recall Obama's "marriage is between a man and a woman"?

Not a single gay friend of mine believed it. "Oh, he's totally on board with us; he just has to say that for now."

I wonder: Did ANYONE believe him?

Posted by: RKae at August 12, 2016 02:36 PM (CYNno)

380 Given the state of general education, I'd be willing to bet that whatever post-america looks like is going to be based on much less solid ground than the Constitution, rather than better.

Given the state of general education ... I'm betting thirty days of empty store shelves and no public utilities is going to bring about a massive demographic shift in my favor.

Folks ... I just do not fear what's coming.

Posted by: ScoggDog at August 12, 2016 02:36 PM (jyInK)

381 Hi ThunderB! People were wondering where you were earlier.
We miss ya.

Posted by: @votermom at August 12, 2016 02:36 PM (7lVbc)

382 USA fails on first kick

Posted by: Nevergiveup at August 12, 2016 02:36 PM (Ozsfq)

383 Which is another thing populism tends to do - gravitate to a strong man even when what is needed is a weakening of elite power

++++

Have you noticed the elites are currently cleaved in two and at one another's throats? Maybe that's how weakening the elites looks.

Posted by: Bigbys Olive Fingers at August 12, 2016 02:36 PM (0o/oP)

384 If we elect Hillary, the country goes solid blue forever when she opens the borers and creates a pathway to citizenship.

Posted by: Cato the Rebel Without a Party at August 12, 2016 02:34 PM (HalrA)

If the next Democratic president destroys the nation, we're doomed already, because there will be another Democratic president.

Posted by: person(a non grata) at August 12, 2016 02:36 PM (mFkVC)

385 I understand very clearly. Some animals are better

Posted by: ThunderB at August 12, 2016 02:36 PM (YffHy)

386 I have a bad feeling about this

Posted by: Nevergiveup at August 12, 2016 02:36 PM (Ozsfq)

387 newsflash to the elites and certain posters on
this site...you're wearing rose colored glasses
when it comes to illegal immigration.

a time will come when it affects you personally.

and you'll change your mind faster than a speeding bullet.

Posted by: concrete girl at August 12, 2016 02:37 PM (0RAv3)

388 Links to the audio clips are at the above link.

Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at August 12, 2016 02:24 PM (R+30W)

I can't access the audio on this machine but I'm fairly sure the only thing McCain was capable of saying at the time of his capture was AAARGH! and Oh Man That Hurts! since he sustained multiple fractures, breaking both arms and his right leg when his aircraft was shot down.

Followed by years of deprivation and torture, of course.

You just can't go after the guy on his war record. McCain wasn't an ace of aces (he was a bomber pilot), but he wasn't a coward, either. Trump's remarks about McCain's PW background were unconscionable.

Posted by: troyriser at August 12, 2016 02:37 PM (OGbEB)

389 Sweden scores

up 1-0

Posted by: Nevergiveup at August 12, 2016 02:37 PM (Ozsfq)

390 Surprise.

I let the first one in.

Posted by: Hope Solo at August 12, 2016 02:37 PM (H9MG5)

391 Accidentally banned. Forced to have a life

Posted by: ThunderB at August 12, 2016 02:37 PM (YffHy)

392 Sure. They'd probably be raping, murdering and driving drunk a bit less, but still.
Posted by: Insomniac at August 12, 2016 02:28 PM (0mRoj)

But the beer swilling males of the species will bring their pot bellies and speedos everywhere.
Posted by: Northernlurker at August 12, 2016 02:36 PM (hJrjt)

The horror...the horror...

Posted by: Insomniac at August 12, 2016 02:37 PM (0mRoj)

393 374 Well it appears we going to penalty kicks between USA and Sweden
...
I hate penalty kicks (or shots in hockey) to decide a winner. To spend an entire match beating each others brains out on the field and then have the winner decided by the equivalent of being a professional rock scissors paper match is asinine.
Play the actual game until there is a winner. No ties. I don't care if after 7 overtimes there is only one person able to walk...that person wins for their team.
Actually, not only don't I care...that would be frigging awesome to watch.
Posted by: ajmojo at August 12, 2016 02:35 PM (1H9ox)

Agreed. I like the NHL's sudden death overtime--much drama and tension.

Posted by: Northernlurker at August 12, 2016 02:37 PM (hJrjt)

394 USA Scores

1-1 Sweden to kick

Posted by: Nevergiveup at August 12, 2016 02:37 PM (Ozsfq)

395 360 Chem Jeff argues for nobility. We don't have that here

Royalists=never trump
Posted by: ThunderB at August 12, 2016 02:33 PM (YffHy)

(Willowed from an unauthorized thread)

I can understand some people not liking Trump. He is a departure from the mold of candidate we have run previously, but if things are going to change, he's the type of person we need.

We can't afford to run another person like George W. Bush, Mitt Romney or (because I'm in Michigan) Rick Snyder. These people are seriously flawed with an oversized sense of personal honor.

They think so much of themselves, with their Keenebunkport prep school mentality that they forget what is True, Honest and Right.

Bush stood by while the "war for oil" meme was pounded in the heads of the public, too fucking above the fray to stand up for himself and the entire party with an argument. Leaving Scooter Libby on the field without a pardon was unforgivable. At the end of the Bush administration, I was physically tired of sticking up for him.

Mitt Romney wouldn't tell the truth about Obama if someone held a gun to his head. It just wasn't done, Old Man. Liberals had no problem saying Mitt killed someone by denying them insurance, but he figured history would correct this and he would seem bigger by not having to fight it himself.

Rick Snyder seemed like the perfect type of republican candidate when he was elected governor of Michigan. Smart, low keyed, effective, but totally fucking spineless. When the Flint water thing hit, Hillary was on national tv saying Snyder and the rest of the Michigan republicans poisoned children to save money.

Did he get mad? Did he rush to the microphones to defend himself? No fucking way.

We can't accomplish anything with people like this in any position of power. We need people like Trump who understand the basics of leadership.

Fight for what is the truth. Fight for what is honest. Fight for what is right.

Leave your fairytale vision of what your personal honor is at the door and stand up for the people who put you in that office. Nobody elected you to burnish your resume and place in history as a noble person. They elected you to fight for causes good people find important.

Trump, although he seems a bit rough around the edges by comparison to what we're used to, is just the type of leader we need in the republican party.

I hope others who are not yet on board will consider why this change is necessary.

Posted by: jwest at August 12, 2016 02:37 PM (Zs4uk)

396 Sweden scores

2-1

Posted by: Nevergiveup at August 12, 2016 02:38 PM (Ozsfq)

397 Posted by: Nevergiveup at August 12, 2016 02:35 PM (Ozsfq)

It would require a rewrite of the Constitution.

Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck at August 12, 2016 02:38 PM (+P27u)

398 376
Never trumpers advocate for royalty

Posted by: ThunderB at August 12, 2016 02:35 PM (YffHy)

Unless the crown's on my head, I am adamantly against it. If the crown's mine, I guess I could settle for being a Constitutional Monarch. As long as I didn't actually have to govern. I'll let some other idiot(s) handle that (I think Congress qualifies), and just take the easy job that lets you live in a huge house and go on frequent vacations.

Posted by: Cato the Rebel Without a Party at August 12, 2016 02:38 PM (HalrA)

399 ...and another...

Posted by: Hope Solo at August 12, 2016 02:38 PM (H9MG5)

400 Have you noticed the elites are currently cleaved in two and at one another's throats? Maybe that's how weakening the elites looks.
Posted by: Bigbys Olive Fingers at August 12, 2016 02:36 PM (0o/oP)
------------

Watch who comes out of this with increased power - hint: it won't be the grassroots and it won't be Conservatives.

Posted by: person(a non grata) at August 12, 2016 02:38 PM (mFkVC)

401 385 I understand very clearly. Some animals are better
Posted by: ThunderB at August 12, 2016 02:36 PM (YffHy)

Just that some are more equal than others.

Posted by: Insomniac at August 12, 2016 02:38 PM (0mRoj)

402 >i'd apologize, except for the fact that i'm tired of concern trolls being concerned.
Posted by: redc1c4 at August 12, 2016 02:33 PM (KSKy7)

Not a troll, sport, just don't care to deal with people who turn into total assholes during election season.

Maybe one of the ettes will call me for the next shoe thread.

Posted by: Lea at August 12, 2016 02:38 PM (lIU4e)

403 US Scores
2-2 with Sweden to kick

Posted by: Nevergiveup at August 12, 2016 02:39 PM (Ozsfq)

404 There are ten good reasons to vote against Hillary, and by definition, for Trump.

The first one starts something like, "Congress shall make no law.........."

That is enough.

Posted by: Javems at August 12, 2016 02:39 PM (yOqwj)

405 SAVE

2-2

Solo stops Sweden

Posted by: Nevergiveup at August 12, 2016 02:39 PM (Ozsfq)

406 Nood.

Posted by: *Mikey NTH - Know Your Place! The Outrage Outlet has Official DNC Oppression Hierarchy Cards! at August 12, 2016 02:40 PM (hLRSq)

407 Granted I can't stand soccer to begin with, but penalty kicks are the dumbest way to decide a competition.

Posted by: What's a Seawolf? at August 12, 2016 02:40 PM (cPMmb)

408 Yeah and so? I think it is a good idea . And it was only those Americans accused of terrorism. And it would require a re-write of the law by Congress and Judicial review. I doubt that would happen, but I like the idea. And as long as it is done along those lines, it would be Constitutional.

Are we talking about "suspected", or caught and getting a trial?

Posted by: rickb223 TEXIT at August 12, 2016 02:40 PM (UYkjZ)

409 Nice save, Hope!

Posted by: a T-rex trying to ~~rub one out~~ clap at August 12, 2016 02:40 PM (H9MG5)

410 Score

3-2 USA Sweden to kick

Posted by: Nevergiveup at August 12, 2016 02:40 PM (Ozsfq)

411
Well it appears we going to penalty kicks between USA and Sweden

What part of the body gets kicked?

Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at August 12, 2016 02:40 PM (IqV8l)

412 Hope!

Posted by: eleven at August 12, 2016 02:40 PM (qUNWi)

413 Not a single gay friend of mine believed it. "Oh, he's totally on board with us; he just has to say that for now."

I wonder: Did ANYONE believe him?
Posted by: RKae at

I think LOTS of people believed him. The Democrats have the luxury of a compliant press that can dog whistle to all the right groups without scrutiny.

Had Obama been in support of gay marriage during the 2008 election, I truly think it would have shifted significant support away from him. It would have been like Dukakis on the death penalty.

Opinion shifted dramatically 4 years later. Remember in 2008, California voted to ban gay marriage. California.

Posted by: Maritime at August 12, 2016 02:41 PM (u2zpL)

414 Are we talking about "suspected", or caught and getting a trial?
Posted by: rickb223 TEXIT at August 12, 2016 02:40 PM (UYkjZ)

I "suppose" indicted

Posted by: Nevergiveup at August 12, 2016 02:41 PM (Ozsfq)

415 357 Again, the power of the elites must also be constrained - checks and balances, etc. and so on.

Posted by: person(a non grata) at August 12, 2016 02:31 PM (mFkVC)
-------------------------------------------------

There are no checks and balances.

Posted by: MTF at August 12, 2016 02:41 PM (/m8T6)

416 Like courtiers fighting for favors in the court.

Disgusting

Posted by: ThunderB at August 12, 2016 02:41 PM (YffHy)

417 >>a time will come when it affects you personally.

Yep, like when my mom was mugged while entering a Macy's at an upscale mall in broad daylight. But with the stuff coming out of Twin Falls --- Pam Geller's been covering it on Breitbart --- I'd say that mugging was the the worst that could happen...

Posted by: Lizzy at August 12, 2016 02:41 PM (NOIQH)

418 3-3

Shit USA misses

Clean miss

Sweden to kick for the victory

Posted by: Nevergiveup at August 12, 2016 02:41 PM (Ozsfq)

419 ThunderB, I'm not advocating for royalty. I'm advocating for small-r republicanism, and the trustee model of representation.

I don't want unelected unaccountable elites in charge of everything.

Posted by: chemjeff at August 12, 2016 02:42 PM (5115x)

420 And Press(?) shanks it.

Posted by: a T-rex trying to ~~rub one out~~ clap at August 12, 2016 02:42 PM (H9MG5)

421 No. No you aren't. You are advocating for her

Posted by: ThunderB at August 12, 2016 02:43 PM (YffHy)

422 There are no checks and balances.

Posted by: MTF at August 12, 2016 02:41 PM (/m8T6)
-------

They have been horribly weakened and must be revitalized. This should be one of the primary objectives of Conservatives.

Posted by: person(a non grata) at August 12, 2016 02:43 PM (mFkVC)

423 I can't access the audio on this machine but I'm fairly sure the only thing McCain was capable of saying at the time of his capture was AAARGH! and Oh Man That Hurts! since he sustained multiple fractures, breaking both arms and his right leg when his aircraft was shot down.

Followed by years of deprivation and torture, of course.

You just can't go after the guy on his war record. McCain wasn't an ace of aces (he was a bomber pilot), but he wasn't a coward, either. Trump's remarks about McCain's PW background were unconscionable.

Posted by: troyriser at August 12, 2016 02:37 PM (OGbEB)

++++

Here's a youtube link, if that helps.
https://youtu.be/xNuNiU-Ip3c

Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at August 12, 2016 02:43 PM (R+30W)

424 If the next Democratic president destroys the nation, we're doomed already, because there will be another Democratic president.

Posted by: person(a non grata) at August 12, 2016 02:36 PM (mFkVC)

Unless we throw somebody in there who's willing to upset a few applecarts and reverse the ratchet. We need to put some points on the board right now, or the game is over.

Trump is more like the game going into overtime. We could still win, but we still need to put points on the board and be on our guard.

Posted by: Cato the Rebel Without a Party at August 12, 2016 02:43 PM (HalrA)

425 Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuudge.

Posted by: a T-rex trying to ~~rub one out~~ clap at August 12, 2016 02:43 PM (H9MG5)

426 I'm also seeing a first amendment issue, along with the obvious second amendment. If you turn your computer on, immediately have to enter identifying information before you proceed, you're no longer anonymous. This is the goal of Clinton, Incorporated. The term is 'authentication'.

In this day and age of hackers everywhere, you're now positively identified as your actual real name, while some idiot across the planet is subverting your identity and placing you at risk with authorities. Don't believe me? Don't. But it's coming.

Do I think a Neanderthal like Donald Trump gives a shit what I say about him on an anonymous blog?

Yeah, I don't think so. You think a paranoid (VRWC anyone?) neurologically impaired Hillary Clinton could order such a process through legislation? You betcha.

That's why I think first and second amendment freedoms are at risk. Not a little. A lot.

Posted by: free range 'sorta' conservative but not 'true' conservative at August 12, 2016 02:46 PM (ZnIt3)

427 425 ... but he didn't say fudge.

Posted by: ScoggDog at August 12, 2016 02:46 PM (jyInK)

428

It doesn't matter what Trump's personal and intellectual qualities might be, however subjectively you want to define those qualities. These opinions and arguments are entirely beside the point. What matters is he's not Hillary, which means he is unlikely to destroy law, society and the entire Republic in self-aggrandizing power grabs.

Posted by: MTF at August 12, 2016 02:48 PM (/m8T6)

429 Canadian Federal elections take 5 weeks and the lead can shift dramatically. Please stop sh!tting your pants thinking that the US general is already over.

Posted by: Dirks Strewn at August 12, 2016 02:49 PM (kfcYC)

430 Here's a youtube link, if that helps.
https://youtu.be/xNuNiU-Ip3c

Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at August 12, 2016 02:43 PM (R+30W)

Is the idea here to suggest McCain is a coward and/or a Communist sympathizer?

Posted by: El Skippito Friskito at August 12, 2016 02:53 PM (W2YA6)

431 Well then, if we are going to throw out the idea that government ought to behave in a proper manner, then maybe I should just join the ranks of the FSA and vote for whomever gives me the most free shit. If we're going to throw propriety out the window, why not?

You've misread my intent, which may well be my fault. What I was trying to say--apparently with some clumsiness--was that in the eyes of much of John Q. Public, the paradigm of the republic doesn't appear to be of much value. Now to those of us who understand what's actually happened clearly this isn't the case--we understand well that the safeguards required for a functional republic have (intentionally) been eroded and that what we have is a republic in label alone.

The question, which I closed with, is simple: How do we undo this? What will it take? And that's the hard part.

Posted by: Brother Cavil, down with Eph 6:12-13 at August 12, 2016 02:55 PM (9krrF)

432 422 There are no checks and balances.

Posted by: MTF at August 12, 2016 02:41 PM (/m8T6)
-------

They have been horribly weakened and must be revitalized. This should be one of the primary objectives of Conservatives.
=============================

I wonder if you even know what you mean to say...The concept of checks and balances is long dead. Courts create new rights all the time, or eliminate old rights. What check exists to hold back judges (and, please, lets not insult a readers intelligence and raise the hardly ever used power of impeachment)? When the President legislates, appropriates and decides which laws to enforce and which to ignore, and yet the Congress ignores encroachment and faithlessness, what check exists on the executive? The press is corrupt, the political economy is fascist, or near enough, and constant additions to regulation and law exists only to control the populace at large- these laws do not apply to the Rangels or the Clintons of the world.

Vote for Trump, and do so for the simple reason is not "of them". Don't overthink it.

Posted by: MTF at August 12, 2016 02:57 PM (/m8T6)

433 I watched "The Devil's Advocate" last night for the first time in over a decade. Cullen Towers and the real estate mogul that mustered his wife to escape the prenup was Donald Trump. Just blatantly smearing the man with Cullen Towers and how he is obviously evil.

Trump is definitely not part of The Club. Say want you want about him, he is not part of The Protected Club.

Btw Ace has been on fire this week.

Posted by: Cactus of Liberty at August 12, 2016 03:01 PM (yhYmR)

434 Article makes good points, but one thing I dislike about this whole thing is seeing blogosphere friends and allies become sworn enemies. I'm not telling anyone what he should do--just sad to see it happen.

Posted by: stace...TEXIT at August 12, 2016 03:03 PM (ozZau)

435 Here's a youtube link, if that helps.
https://youtu.be/xNuNiU-Ip3c

Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at August 12, 2016 02:43 PM (R+30W)

No. Just don't.
McCain is a dick, but almost all of the prisoners broke at some point and wrote letters or made recordings for propaganda. They did it because they were tortured and starved.

The standing rule among the prisoners was: hold out as long as you can, but if you break it's not a dishonor. McCain, who again, is in fact a dick, turned down an offer for early release, even though he was the most badly injured POW who survived. He could have gone home years early because of who his dad was, but he refused to break the POW first in, first out code.

Truly, people, going after his war record makes YOU a dick. Trump's statement disparaging ALL POWs disqualifies him from being CinC, and I'll only vote for him because clinton is even less qualified.

Posted by: stace...TEXIT at August 12, 2016 03:15 PM (ozZau)

436 Baseballcrank has been completely unhinged over trump since the beginning.

I still follow him on social media, but only until Nov 8th, I will be purging probably well over half the people I follow/subscribe to.

I was going to give do the same for Erickson, but I just couldn't take it anymore.

Posted by: Dr. Shatterhand at August 12, 2016 03:20 PM (Uy8SG)

437 436 Baseballcrank has been completely unhinged over trump since the beginning.

I still follow him on social media, but only until Nov 8th, I will be purging probably well over half the people I follow/subscribe to.

I was going to give do the same for Erickson, but I just couldn't take it anymore.
Posted by: Dr. Shatterhand at August 12, 2016 03:20 PM (Uy8SG)

I've purged almost everyone who was an early Trump booster, which isn't very many. Almost everyone I've long respected on twitter loathes Trump, although some plan to vote for him just because Hillary is so awful. Ace is in that category, as am I, but I wish Trump would drop out.

He's the least popular candidate in history, and it's a relatively small number who actually think he'd be a decent president.

Posted by: stace...TEXIT at August 12, 2016 03:26 PM (ozZau)

438 You nailed it Ace, these 'vaunted Eternal Principles of Constant Consistency' have never existed, at least not since I've been paying attention (3 decades)...

Posted by: TheFoundersParty at August 12, 2016 03:26 PM (QAVtQ)

439 I'm watching the GOP nominee plod along each day worse than the last, doing everything in his power to keep the story on himself, and always in a bad light. No one capable of earning his way into billionaire status can possibly be this dumb however, so it must be on purpose. And yet here we are, pushing a clear insurgent to... what, exactly? It's certainly not victory. So I guess it must be the purposeful destruction of the party.

Which is fine, I guess. I left after 30 years because of McConnell and Boehner, so let it burn. But if we're about letting it burn, than why all the heartache over how the insurgent is being treated? He's a means to an end, after all, right?. And as he said, 'he gon be aight'.

Posted by: bkeyser at August 12, 2016 03:30 PM (l4B3N)

440 "He's the least popular candidate in history, and it's a relatively small number who actually think he'd be a decent president."

Uh...no. Trump got the most Republican votes in the primaries in history.

It's not unpopular. He's unpopular to you not the masses.

Posted by: #NeverHillary at August 12, 2016 03:32 PM (/So8Q)

441 "He's the least popular candidate in history, and it's a relatively small number who actually think he'd be a decent president.
Posted by: stace...TEXIT at August 12, 2016 03:26 PM (ozZau)"

I am totally OK with people deciding that for whatever reason they are going to vote for someone else, or not vote. Its the antagonism of the electorate that bothers me.

I'll give an example. One of Baseballcranks favorite go to observations is something along the line sof 70% against trump, 60% against trump. We should give the nomination to someone else! This went on after every primary, and he's still pushing this nonsense.

You're going to replace that guy with someone who had 70 or 80 or 90% "against" them. Or someone who go no votes at all? Give me a break. It's completely ridiculous. Forget the fact that not all votes are "against" it's expressing a preference. Guess what? Trump consolidated voters from candidates that dropped out more effectively than the others. He won.

I have been reading Dans work since almost the beginning of his blog. I don't feel the need to do so any more.

Posted by: Dr. Shatterhand at August 12, 2016 03:36 PM (Uy8SG)

442 Dan McLaughlin is the worst hack at NR. He thinks he has something to say, which is difficult since he has his mouth around Hillary's wilted stone-cold tit.

Posted by: dagny at August 12, 2016 03:37 PM (eSQgj)

443 @441

Exactly. Nice summary.

Posted by: #NeverHillary at August 12, 2016 03:41 PM (/So8Q)

444 421

I ran the numbers and Obama got 29% of the possible vote in 2012. The #nevertrump crowd likes to assert that somehow having a higher percentage of votes "not for you" matters more than those you get. So if that's true, the 71% of possible voters who did not vote for Obama out weigh the 29% who voted for him and he isn't really the president.

Stupidest argument out there, as you point out.

Posted by: dagny at August 12, 2016 03:44 PM (eSQgj)

445 I purged the over the top Trumpsters early. Now, I've purged the #nevertrumpsters once he won the nomination. It's about #neverhillary.

Posted by: dagny at August 12, 2016 03:46 PM (eSQgj)

446 McCain's membership in the Keating Five must be the stature-enhancer Dan McLaughlin refers to. An example ofhis epic ability to lie, his corruption, and the in-bred stupidity of Arizona voters.

Posted by: Born Free at August 12, 2016 03:58 PM (9yFmj)

447 "445 I purged the over the top Trumpsters early. Now, I've purged the #nevertrumpsters once he won the nomination. It's about #neverhillary.
Posted by: dagny at August 12, 2016 03:46 PM (eSQgj)"

I'm looking forward to purging some of the pro trump forces as well.

Look I was a Trump booster.. 5 years ago. I have been fantasizing about this in an unhealthy way for a long time and I got what I wanted. Now... Trump is failing us. Maybe he still has a shot, I don't know. All he had to do was shut his trap after the convention, and be more or less boring, he falls for every trap and makes every non controversy into a real controversy.

If they were to dump him now, based on the poll trending... I don't even know if I'd be bothered by it, he's been so bad the last three weeks.

Back to the twitter things, some friends made a gun photoshop of Rubio sitting in Trumps lap reading the Jimmy Kimmel Dr. Seuss Trump book. We were trying to get it to go viral, so I started following a bunch of people who I guess are these alt-right Trump 4chan/reddit guys. Holy mackerel. They post a lot of interesting links and stuff, and make some astute observations... but they are really scum. I will have not use for their insight on 11/9, just as I will have no use for the insight of John Podhoertz, Baseballcrank, and their ilk.

Posted by: Dr. Shatterhand at August 12, 2016 04:01 PM (Uy8SG)

448 Trump is in the Republican Dalit Caste,
Sen. McCain is in the Republican Brahman Caste.

Posted by: Paul Ryan Explaining the Republican Caste System at August 12, 2016 04:02 PM (ndGCC)

449 Posted by: Dr. Shatterhand at August 12, 2016 04:01 PM (Uy8SG)

Yep I get all your points.

As I've said before, at this point this election isn't about ideas or principles; it's about beating Hillary, so I look at everything Trump does through the lens of "does this help him win, or no?"

It was baked in that the Demedia would shave at LEAST five points off of any GOP candidate, but he still has a responsibility to do things that help himself win , and not do the other things.

Posted by: stace...TEXIT at August 12, 2016 04:08 PM (ozZau)

450 "TEXIT" You people make me laugh. One amnesty and Texas flips blue, forever. What do you think happened to MA, NH, VT? (hint: it wasn't the descendants of the colonists who make up less than 10% of the present population.) You think Coolidge could be elected today? Immigration and sovereignty are THE issues.

Posted by: plum at August 12, 2016 04:10 PM (ThIzl)

451 Last nights 'yeah-yeahing' and today's 'caste' posts are two of the best pieces of analysis I've read. Thank you.

Posted by: gawntrail at August 12, 2016 04:14 PM (2q13V)

452 "TEXIT" You people make me laugh.
GFY.

You think we don't know immigration is a problem?
VT and NH are almost entirely white, so the Mexicans aren't the problem there. We can't help it that your Ivy League has been turning out white communists for decades.

Posted by: stace...TEXIT at August 12, 2016 04:16 PM (ozZau)

453 We can't help it that your Ivy League has been turning out white communists for decades.
Posted by: stace...TEXIT at August 12, 2016 04:16 PM (ozZau)

In fact, one of our biggest problems is communist white Yankees and Californians who're here because they fucked up their own states and need to move here for jobs. We need a fence on the Mexico border, but also we also need to wall off TX, OK, LA and I guess Arkansas from coastal commies. I'm open to expanding our protected area up to N Dakota and over to Idaho.

Posted by: stace...TEXIT at August 12, 2016 04:21 PM (ozZau)

454 "Now... Trump is failing us. Maybe he still has a shot, I don't know."

He's going to win. Stop falling for all the psy-ops.

The entire media - government complex is against him along with the DNC and foreign interests too.

Hillary has spent 50 million dollars so far in negative ads in swing states and they are tied. Trump has spent 0. She's not made a dent. Just like JEB and 16 other candidates couldn't make a dent.

Trump will unleash after the Olympics and summer are over.

He's going to win.

Posted by: #NeverHillary at August 12, 2016 04:22 PM (/So8Q)

455 I'm open to expanding our protected area up to N Dakota and over to Idaho.
Posted by: stace...TEXIT at August 12, 2016 04:21 PM (ozZau)

WY, UT and MT.
And the Gulf states over to include the FA panhandle, plus GA and SC.

Posted by: stace...TEXIT at August 12, 2016 04:23 PM (ozZau)

456 Maybe Wisconsin too. Yeah. Probationary.

Posted by: stace...TEXIT at August 12, 2016 04:26 PM (ozZau)

457 Posted by: stace...TEXIT at August 12, 2016 04:16 PM (ozZau) I apologize. I didn't make myself clear. It has little or nothing to do with race and everything to do with culture. My point was that the founders' culture has been replaced and mostly by migration (and birth rates). Vermont is essentially a colony of Manhattan and votes accordingly. My neighbors all revere the Kennedys and vote for any Democrat with an Irish surname. They are all lovely, hard-working, family oriented people. It's a disconnect.

Posted by: plum at August 12, 2016 04:40 PM (ThIzl)

458 "He's going to win. Stop falling for all the psy-ops.

The entire media - government complex is against him along with the DNC and foreign interests too.

Hillary has spent 50 million dollars so far in negative ads in swing states and they are tied. Trump has spent 0. She's not made a dent. Just like JEB and 16 other candidates couldn't make a dent.

Trump will unleash after the Olympics and summer are over.

He's going to win.

Posted by: #NeverHillary at August 12, 2016 04:22 PM (/So8Q)"

I like your spirit, and I was with you until a few days after the Khan thing. They are not tied... maybe in a few polls they are close. National polls... the important ones in states where he needs desperately to win, he is losing ground, massively in a short period time.

He's in big trouble, and it's not some conspiracy or bad samples in a few polls.

Posted by: Dr. Shatterhand at August 12, 2016 04:42 PM (Uy8SG)

459 "I like your spirit, and I was with you until a few days after the Khan thing."

First, take a deep breath.

The polls I've seen that are show great damage to Trump are ludicrous.

And not just because of the usual bias and sampling.

Want to know why?

Because they are giving her numbers that neither Bill Clinton nor Obama has ever gotten. Well maybe Obama in 2008 but not 2012.

It's absurd to think she's getting 10 point leads. It's just not realistic on the planet earth.

To think this woman, well known to the populace, would poll better than her husband or Obama in 2012 is nutzo.

Posted by: #NeverHillary at August 12, 2016 05:05 PM (/So8Q)

460 I am, however, concerned about voting fraud but every Rep. candidate would of had that problem.

Posted by: #NeverHillary at August 12, 2016 05:10 PM (/So8Q)

461 "First, take a deep breath. "

Please... I'm like the original Trump supporter.
His current numbers absolutely suck, and he's getting it from the left and his own party.

It's time for him to mind his mouth, people are now paying attention. His media strategy has been awesome up until now, but they turned on him as we all knew they would, and as he should have known. It's time to stop giving them opportunities to kill him with his own words.

Something has to give on his end, or he's absolutely toast. It's not enough to hope for wikileaks or some horrible catastrophe to kneecap Hillary.

He's driving away his own voters right now, and repelling crossover votes, which he needs to win. That was part of his appeal, we were going to get Reagan democrats who don't like Hillary. People like my in laws who were maybe going to go along with the idea of voting for Trump, are now against him. It's all happened in the last 3 weeks.

Posted by: Dr. Shatterhand at August 12, 2016 05:36 PM (Uy8SG)

462

Eh. Still not worried.

This time - for sure - it's over.

Posted by: #NeverHillary at August 12, 2016 05:45 PM (/So8Q)

463 "People like my in laws"

Oh. Wait a second. Did you say your in laws? I better get in my bunker then.

Posted by: #NeverHillary at August 12, 2016 05:48 PM (/So8Q)

464 Yes let's pretend it's a good thing to drive away reliable Democrat voters, who were thinking of voting for you.

Posted by: Dr. Shatterhand at August 12, 2016 06:06 PM (I5aoT)

465 "Yes let's pretend it's a good thing"

Ok. Let's get hysterical, start running around on blogs and start throwing Trump under a bus 90 some days out from the election. Is that a better plan?

Like this:

"I'm looking forward to purging some of the pro trump forces as well."

"If they were to dump him now, based on the poll trending... I don't even know if I'd be bothered by it, he's been so bad the last three weeks."

Wouldn't want to be in a fox hole with you.

Now wouldn't a reasonable thing to do be to look up all the facts about Khan - and there is considerable dirt on the guy/Clinton/writings on Islam/paid off law firm etc. and at least present the facts to your inlaws?

Cuz funny thing, I came across a relative who was a bit disturbed about the whole thing and I did just that. Gave them information. Real information. Suddenly their concerns about Trump/Kahn were gone.

And Trump was accused of throwing a baby out and wanting Hillary assassinated too.

So give me a break with all the drama. It doesn't matter what Trump says they are crucifying him anyway. And they would be doing the same with any of the other 16 candidates.

Try not to encourage the #NeverTrumpers and Hillarybots because they just love weak players.

Posted by: #NeverHillary at August 12, 2016 06:29 PM (/So8Q)

466 Honestly it was a lot better post with the Hodges and the Fung videos.

Posted by: davedaveadavarf at August 12, 2016 08:09 PM (0+srV)

467 McCain's military status gives him some status, but so do a lot of military men and women who support Trump. Also military hero status is limited.

For example Benedict Arnold did whole heck of a lot more on the battlefield for American than John McCain ever did...yet he went over his hero limit when he tried to sell West Point to the British. At least he had an excuse...His loyalist young wife Peggy was hot they say. Men sometimes do stupid things for women...

Posted by: William Eaton at August 12, 2016 09:20 PM (KhJh8)

468 "Ok. Let's get hysterical, start running around on blogs and start
throwing Trump under a bus 90 some days out from the election. Is that a
better plan?"

Sorry I don't think I'm being hysterical to maybe hope that the candidate that I've been waiting for, to annihilate the political establishment and have defended to any number of anti-Trump forces, actually attempt to control himself and not give his opponents ammunition to eviscerate him and his supporters in a compliant media environment.

If the election were today, he'd lose, that's a fact. We've got three months. He needs to get it together.

I've been a fearless defender of this campaign since before day 1. I expect him to win, but he's got to do better than he's doing right now. Maybe things change in a couple weeks when we're closer to debates and the Olympics are over. But if people like you and me, are constantly having to defend the fact that he's not calling for assassination of his opponents, not punching babies in the dick, etc. Then we are losing.

He was in the cat bird seat, and now he's not. This is not a Hillary convention bounce. Things changed after he mixed it up with Khan, I don't even disagree with Trump, but some battles are best left unfought. He crossed a line with a lot of people, it's reality. It was a complete trap and he fell right into it. Massive poll shift in the aftermath, that has only stabilized, and he's in a worse position than he was in before the conventions. He was close in so many battleground states. He's now losing...badly in places he needs to win. This is reality, it's not hysteria.

He, TRUMP, needs to do better. At the moment, right now, and 12:30 EST on Saturday morning, he is failing us. As of this moment, we would be better off to win with a generic republican. That would be an absolute catastrophe in maintaining the status quo, but it's a hard truth.

Trump needs to beat Hillary, and that reality can't be based on the hope that some bad shit will come to light and bury her. He needs to bury her. Right now he's not doing it.

Perhaps you've been with me, laughing at the jackass pundits predicting his demise all the way since last summer. I'm not laughing now. Now we are losing.

Posted by: Dr. Shatterhand at August 13, 2016 12:30 AM (I5aoT)

469 "If the election were today, he'd lose, that's a fact."

Unless you are God, himself, you can't possibly call that a fact.

And do you have internal polls from the Trump campaign? Because then there might be some real reason to believe so from a legitimate source. But the election wasn't today so it's mute point anyway. It's just something that makes you feel good about your rants against Trump.

Regardless, there was ALWAYS going to be 24/7 media hellfire reining down upon Trump no matter what he did or said. And specifically Trump because he's the biggest threat - just by virtue of being the only serious Pro-American candidate - they've seen in their lifetimes.

"We've got three months. He needs to get it together."

He has it together. I think anyone who posts what you did about dumping Trump three months before the election and is the one that needs to get it together.

You need to stop throwing your (and mine) candidate under the bus on a site that is literally crawling with #NeverTrumpers. This site is a particular draw for them.

I know a few democrats who are voting for Trump and they are like steel. They never bend. Not only do they not ever throw their candidate under the bus, they never give aid or comfort to the enemy under any circumstances. They fall in line and stay there. It's actually a joy for once to be on a team with teammates like that for a change.

A lesson needed to be learned by some.

"As of this moment, we would be better off to win with a generic republican."

Ok. Put down the crack pipe. All of the 16 dwarfs would be running on Hillary's pro-amnesty, pro-Syrian refugee platform by now.

Maybe you need a break. You, at this point are failing us not Trump.

I also was a Trump supporter from the get go and so I find it sort of strange to see another one suddenly go all lope-sided and choke right at the one of the most critical junctures.

Eh. Anyway. I'm still not worried.

You want to be "right." I want to win. And win Trump will.

He needs warriors right now. Warriors that have his back even if he falls into traps - as you believe. Fairweather supporters are useless.

He is working his ass off with two rallies a day plus fundraisers, plus television interviews, plus social media, etc.

He's just announced he's opening offices in all 50 states to make Hillary contest them. It's on.

If this is the only site you follow then no wonder you are so easily shaken. Head over to the CTH for a breather.

Posted by: #NeverHillary at August 13, 2016 02:00 AM (/So8Q)

470 Also head over to Free Republic. They are ALL IN with Trump too.

They've banned most of the disgruntled Cruz people, the #NeverTrump people, and the Hillary people.

It will save you some of the wear and tear of the terminally negative and corrosive naysayers.

Posted by: #NeverHillary at August 13, 2016 02:13 AM (/So8Q)

471 Serious question: if the #nevertrumpillati are so convinced Trump can't win, why are they trying so hard to undermine him at every turn and going so far as to put forth a useless sure to lose token?

None of it strikes me as confidence.

Posted by: Czar Peter at August 13, 2016 02:01 PM (KiXnf)

472 200 Posted by: IllTemperedCur

Cesar Chavez was very anti-illegal immigrant. He called them wet-backs and he and a group of his followers would go on patrol fully loaded to defend against them.

A fact the left leaves out as they celebrate Cesar Chavez Day.
Posted by: Cheri at August 12, 2016 01:57 PM (oiNtH)
================
But the left forgives them because while they did the beatdowns, they chanted "Si, se puede"

Posted by: Old Toby at August 18, 2016 02:22 PM (EL3kX)

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