Mel Gibson Given a Second Chance as a Director

It looks good. However, it's a "Four Feathers" type movie -- a movie that demonstrates that sometimes pacifists -- "cowards" -- are the bravest of all.

There may be truth in that -- and there's at least some truth here; this is based on a true story after all -- but I'm always very skittish about pushing pro-pacificism movies during times of war.

The Four Feathers was a very cruel piece of agitprop against any Dummy who ever signed up to fight for his country in battle. And yes, you can't read the Four Feathers as calling volunteers anything but Dummies. The pacifist keeps his body whole and strong; the warriors come back as cripples, headcases, and amputees.

And then, just for good measure, the pacifist also demonstrates he's a more daring fighter than any of the fighters, too.

Now, this movie isn't that. And it does look rousing. (The Four Feathers, if one gets past the intense anti-war, anti-warrior messaging, is a rousing revenge fantasy too.)

And perhaps this is the only kind of movie they'd let Gibson make. After all, liberals control Hollywood.

But I'd also note that, apart from being an intensely believing Christian, he's also very anti-war himself. So this is probably a film he wanted to make.

Again, this is based on genuine events, so it's not like one can object that this is fictitious agitprop. This guy was a pacifist, and was, despite that, enormously courageous.

I just find it distasteful to praise pacifism while boys are necessarily, unavoidably being asked to fight a war which must be fought.

But looking past my politics: Looks very good.

Posted by: Ace at 02:51 PM

Comments

(Jump to bottom of comments)

1 Helloooooo

Posted by: Bruce at July 29, 2016 02:52 PM (8ikIW)

2 See this film, SugarTits.

Posted by: Mr. Peebles at July 29, 2016 02:54 PM (iynDC)

3

I have always liked him.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at July 29, 2016 02:54 PM (qCMvj)

4 The original "Four Feathers" was an excellent film . Much of it filmed in Egypt, IIRC.

Posted by: HH at July 29, 2016 02:55 PM (DrCtv)

5 I will probably give a look. No way to judge until you se it. I think Mel is one of the few true artists in Hollywood. His Apocalyto was a master piece.

Posted by: Puddin Head at July 29, 2016 02:57 PM (oDCMR)

6 But looking past my politics: Looks very good.

------

Thanks. But first..........???

Posted by: Mel Gibson at July 29, 2016 02:57 PM (8XRCm)

7 Mel's a helluva good movie maker.

Posted by: huerfano at July 29, 2016 02:57 PM (jkkMG)

8 Four Feathers made me think of Four Lions, which is a movie about bumbling jihadis everyone should see.

Posted by: Lauren at July 29, 2016 02:58 PM (49Vdm)

9 I'm reminded of one of my favorite scenes in The Best Years of Our Lives - the drugstore scene where the Nazi symp/pacifist got punched in the face.

Posted by: VA GOP Sucks at July 29, 2016 02:58 PM (eytER)

10 The original "Four Feathers" was also about the social setting of the time of muscular Christianity.

A bonus was what a man would do to prove his love for a women that had scorned his manhood.

Just picture a millennial doing that!

Posted by: NaCly Dog at July 29, 2016 02:59 PM (hyuyC)

11 I'll go see this movie.

But first........

Posted by: Soona at July 29, 2016 02:59 PM (Fmupd)

12

Looks like an "everyone can play a part" movie.

Like a medic, or documenter/photographer, except he's on the front lines.

Will have to see it.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at July 29, 2016 02:59 PM (qCMvj)

13 See this film!
But first you will blow me.

Posted by: Mel Gibson at July 29, 2016 03:00 PM (T2irN)

14 Sigh.....

The problem is that most so-called pacifists are content to allow others to fight their battles for them.

I understand but do not agree with the idea that all war is the ultimate evil.

I do not understand the idea that others may be called upon to conduct those wars to protect the pacifist.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at July 29, 2016 03:00 PM (Zu3d9)

15 I enjoyed Bill Murray's version of The Razor's Edge.

Posted by: Grump928(c) says Free Soothie! at July 29, 2016 03:01 PM (evdj2)

16 After watching the trailer, I've seen the movie.

Redbox.

Posted by: AlaBAMA at July 29, 2016 03:01 PM (2PHKP)

17 >>>I will probably give a look. No way to judge until you se it. I think Mel is one of the few true artists in Hollywood. His Apocalyto was a master piece.

South Park, while attacking Gibson as a lunatic, had a character say, "He may be insane, but god-damnit, does he understand story structure."

He's very good -- or very confident -- about setting up very black/white conflicts with very clear storylines.

I remember David Mamet talking about the Untouchables script. (Yeah he wrote that -- you guys remember that, by any chance?) He commented on the film's juxtaposition of the Capone Baseball Bat murder with a scene of pure domestic peace at the Ness household, with Ness talking to his new baby son.

he said he did that deliberately, that it wanted it very clear that there is one world which is bad and another world which is good and there's no mistaking one for the other.

I think some filmmakers try to be too nuanced, thinking these simple white/black stories are too simplistic, but honestly, it's a MOVIE, not a history book. I kind of want things simplified so I have a clear rooting interest.

Mamet did not question the highly questionable prohibition of alcohol in the Untouchables -- not because he's dumb or lacks nuance, but because he knew that would distract from the clear storyline he was writing.

Posted by: ace at July 29, 2016 03:01 PM (dciA+)

18 I didn't get that the guy in the Four Feathers was a pacifist, what with all the killing he did, but just that he disagreed with the reasons for that war and was willing to be outcast for that belief.

And I thought only the one friend was truly maimed, and the other two were fine (after he sprung them from prison)? I don't remember; it's been awhile.

Posted by: sunny-dee at July 29, 2016 03:01 PM (QAOZh)

19 >>See this film!

But first you will blow me.

....Sugartits?

Posted by: Lizzy at July 29, 2016 03:01 PM (NOIQH)

20 Sigh.....

The problem is that most so-called pacifists are content to allow others to fight their battles for them.

I understand but do not agree with the idea that all war is the ultimate evil.

I do not understand the idea that others may be called upon to conduct those wars to protect the pacifist.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at July 29, 2016 03:00 PM (Zu3d9)

I don't know. He puts his life out there, but thinks he can help in other ways.

If he wasn't there, would one life not be saved, I guess is the point.

I can't call him a pacifist because he goes, and he is involved in the action. He doesn't just run with his tail between his legs to Canada.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at July 29, 2016 03:02 PM (qCMvj)

21 Four Feathers made me think of Four Lions, which is a movie about bumbling jihadis everyone should see.

You know I love that one. Humorous and chilling at the same time.

Posted by: Grump928(c) says Free Soothie! at July 29, 2016 03:02 PM (evdj2)

22 The story arc here will likely play on the idea of the concientous objector being fundamentally misunderstood. I'd take the bet that some of the guys he saves had previously given him a ration of shit for being a coward. There's a Christ theme in this if you want to look for it.

Looking forward to this, and to Silence by Marty with Liam Neeson.

Trivia: Mel Gibson was born in Poughkeepsie NY where his father worked for Metro-North. The family moved to Australia with Dad's Jeopardy winnings

Posted by: Ignoramus at July 29, 2016 03:03 PM (r1fLd)

23 "while boys are necessarily, unavoidably being asked to fight a war which must be fought."

and girls. and trannies; don't forget the trannies. oh and the boys who think they're girls. I think that's different than run of the mill trannies.

Posted by: Retard Strength Trumps Smart Power at July 29, 2016 03:03 PM (RKQ/v)

24 I heard about Doss a few years ago. Trailer seems accurate enough.

Posted by: ArthurK at July 29, 2016 03:03 PM (h53OH)

25 THIS is going to be a blockbuster. It's a true story, which in itself is hard to believe.

The guy saved over 50 men, SINGLE HANDEDLY.

http://tinyurl.com/hbwf78p

Posted by: Nip Sip at July 29, 2016 03:03 PM (F1iXz)

26 >>>THIS is going to be a blockbuster. It's a true story, which in itself is hard to believe.

The guy saved over 50 men, SINGLE HANDEDLY.

...

aw, I didn't want to know the specifics.

Posted by: ace at July 29, 2016 03:04 PM (dciA+)

27 As Truffaut said, I'ts impossible to make an anti-war film.

So this film will also fail the Truffaut test and being directed by Mel will be pretty good to boot.

Posted by: Kreplach at July 29, 2016 03:04 PM (3Xxpy)

28
Lots of men went to war not wanting to go, or wanting to kill throughout history. Some had breakdowns as a result, and others became cowards when the moment came to kill. We've heard all of the stories of bravery and cowardness.

It's better you know upfront he won't have your back, then not knowing when the time is critical for action.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at July 29, 2016 03:05 PM (qCMvj)

29 I tell pacifists that I'll make a deal with them. I'll go into harm's way, but afterward, if I'm still alive, I will never support you, your opinions, your causes, or any of your needs should you be lacking them.

When I walk away from you now, you will be dead to me.

Posted by: Soona at July 29, 2016 03:05 PM (Fmupd)

30 >>>> The family moved to Australia with Dad's Jeopardy winnings

WHAT?!!

I knew he was born in US and moved to Australia but I had no idea Jeopardy! had a role in this.

Posted by: ace at July 29, 2016 03:05 PM (dciA+)

31 I never gave up on Gibson. Everyone shit on him because of that ugly divorce, but that is rather common in divorces. I have seen some knock down drag out screaming and yelling in my pool with many bad things said.

As for this movie I don't know. Remember that the movie Sargent York, which is a classic war movie, reflected a conscientious objector being a hero. I don't know with what we have here but it is possible a sort of York takeoff.

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at July 29, 2016 03:05 PM (mpXpK)

32 Most of us are pacifists, except for killing our enemies.

Posted by: Dave at Buffalo Roam at July 29, 2016 03:05 PM (62got)

33 22 - I am looking forward to NOTHING with gun control advocate/hypocrite Liam Neeson

Posted by: OK, Thanks, buh-bye at July 29, 2016 03:06 PM (ucB75)

34 Four Feathers?

Count me in.

Posted by: Elizabeth Warren at July 29, 2016 03:06 PM (4AVeu)

35 More on Doss. Read the last line of this story. It will bring tears to your eyes.

http://tinyurl.com/j967hj6

Posted by: Nip Sip at July 29, 2016 03:06 PM (F1iXz)

36 @25

Wow

Posted by: @votermom at July 29, 2016 03:06 PM (7lVbc)

37 I'm fine with him. Compared to the rest those hollywood douchebags he's a model citizen.

Posted by: dagny at July 29, 2016 03:06 PM (eSQgj)

38 I'm glad Gibson is getting another chance.

Posted by: Lizzy at July 29, 2016 03:07 PM (NOIQH)

39 >>> As Truffaut said, I'ts impossible to make an anti-war film.

spielberg said it was impossible to make a serious war movie that was not, at its heart, anti-war.

I mean you can make a rambo and that's pro-war but that's not a serious movie.

you can't really make a war movie were good men die and not have an anti-war vibe come through.

odd that these two disagree.

Maybe spielberg said that when asked about your truffault quote.

Posted by: ace at July 29, 2016 03:07 PM (dciA+)

40
Not interested.

Sorry.

If it's anti war, pacifist, I'm not interested.

War is a thing that happens.
If you want to glorify heroics, I might watch.
If you show how wars get started, how they are fought, why they are fought, how they are ended, I probably would watch.

But in this historical era where ordinary, unarmed civilians are getting their head cut off by men swinging meat cleavers, I'm not going to entertain the claim that love conquers all. Sorry.

Posted by: Filgert Golightly at July 29, 2016 03:07 PM (3DO6e)

41 I saw The Four Feathers recently (the Heath Ledger version).

Yes, he's a coward (actually, he thought that a war wouldn't start while he was in the service and he wouldn't be sent overseas. You know, like John Kerry.) So he backs out, and he's hated for it. He goes in, sneaks around, fights and ....

Loses.

Yeah, he gets his girl back, but his best friend's blind and a lot of his buddies are now fertilizer, and for what? To fight in a little war against people they had no argument with (and if you knew the history of Gen. George Gordon, that idiot deserved to die).

Sort of like why we're sending our boys into Libya (to die), to Uganda (to die), and back into Iraq and still in Afghanistan (to die).

Here's the problem with your argument, Ace. If you knew the history of the empire at that time (post-1900), you'd realize that <b>there's not a false moment in that movie.</b> If you knew why men stay to fight and die in battle, it's mostly because they bonded with their buddies, and men don't abandon their comrades in arms.

It wasn't agiprop, and it's not necessarily anti-war, if you remember that <i>if you send men into war, you better send them in to win.</i>

Or else they'll come back and ...

Posted by: Uma Thurmond's Feet at July 29, 2016 03:07 PM (rZRou)

42
Lots of people are pacifists until they get shot at.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at July 29, 2016 03:07 PM (ODxAs)

43 The trailer looks very good. Gibson is a great director. May be an asshole and insane, but there is a fine line between madness and genius.

Posted by: Aetius451AD at July 29, 2016 03:08 PM (3ZoRf)

44 If Doss was a pacifist he would have objected to any combat role. He was a conscientious objector (to killing) but not to serving his country. Many COs served as combat medics as did Doss and was awarded the CMO for actions the potrayed in the film.

Posted by: roy_batty at July 29, 2016 03:08 PM (JFGJa)

45 I just read his Medal Of Honor Citation. Wow!

Posted by: Eskimo at July 29, 2016 03:08 PM (ZYNmu)

46 31 I never gave up on Gibson. Everyone shit on him because of that ugly divorce, but that is rather common in divorces.
______________________________

You're right. She never wound up dead like Nicole Simpson, Natalie Wood, William Shatner's Wife, Robert Blake's wife, etc. etc.

Posted by: Elizabeth Warren at July 29, 2016 03:08 PM (4AVeu)

47 >>>
Here's the problem with your argument, Ace. If you knew the history of the empire at that time (post-1900), you'd realize that there's not a false moment in that movie. If you knew why men stay to fight and die in battle, it's mostly because they bonded with their buddies, and men don't abandon their comrades in arms.

yes, that was the SETTING of the movie -- but the movie was made before WWII.

Posted by: ace at July 29, 2016 03:09 PM (dciA+)

48 I know someone who is a contentious objector.

He's a Christian who was an Arabic translator for the Navy.

He became dismayed at the, in his opinion, lax criteria for identifying potential terrorists to target for droning.

I don't presume to know the accuracy of those charges, but he's not a bleeding heart liberal for what that's worth.

Posted by: Lauren at July 29, 2016 03:09 PM (49Vdm)

49 Yo!

Posted by: Yo! at July 29, 2016 03:09 PM (GwIKd)

50
Mamet did not question the highly questionable prohibition of alcohol in the Untouchables -- not because he's dumb or lacks nuance, but because he knew that would distract from the clear storyline he was writing.

Posted by: ace at July 29,

----------------
All great stories are either Revelations, the Illiad or the Odyssey in one form or another. Revelations has been a favorite of Hollywood these last couple of decades with all the Hobbit and Star Wars stuff. Good versus Evil is great theater. Mel, as a Catholic, does what the Golden Age of Hollywood did - Jews teaching Catholic theology to Protestant Americans. Its amazing, given their financial success, that they stopped doing it.

Posted by: Puddin Head at July 29, 2016 03:10 PM (oDCMR)

51 just as MASH was set during Korea but was actually an anti-war commentary on Vietnam.

And Catch-22 was set in WWii but was an anti-war commentary on the war going on at the time it was written (Korea).

These movies aren't made to provide a dry, academic commentary on historical wars. they're meant to comment on the present.

Posted by: ace at July 29, 2016 03:10 PM (dciA+)

52 >>>spielberg said it was impossible to make a serious war movie that was not, at its heart, anti-war.<<<

That's why I was the hero of Saving Private Ryan.

Posted by: Upham at July 29, 2016 03:10 PM (H9MG5)

53 I liked the original four feathers or at least the 1939 one

Posted by: Yo! at July 29, 2016 03:11 PM (GwIKd)

54 I had a thought about replacing the white feather with a white tampon...

Posted by: @votermom at July 29, 2016 03:11 PM (7lVbc)

55 I kind of want things simplified so I have a clear rooting interest.

Posted by: ace at July 29, 2016 03:01 PM (dciA+)

Exactly.

Movies have to be entertaining. Sure, we all have seen movies that are deep and thought-provoking and blah, blah, blah.

But I want my escapism, and a black and white world is wonderfully escapist.

That's why spectator sports are popular. It's black and white: My team against your team.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at July 29, 2016 03:11 PM (Zu3d9)

56 Trivia: Mel Gibson was born in Poughkeepsie NY where his father worked for Metro-North. The family moved to Australia with Dad's Jeopardy winnings

Posted by: Ignoramus at July 29, 2016 03:03 PM (r1fLd)

Huh....

Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Staring at the Lake in the rain at July 29, 2016 03:12 PM (72N6L)

57 45
I just read his Medal Of Honor Citation. Wow!

Posted by: Eskimo at July 29, 2016 03:08 PM (ZYNmu)

Read @35. Really unbelievable. Unbelievable.

Where do men like this come from?

Mostly Virginia, ha ha

Posted by: Nip Sip at July 29, 2016 03:12 PM (F1iXz)

58 @39

I don't think any clear thinking person after watching the opening act of saving private ryan would say, ok sign me up for that but you cannot have a feature length film of pure brutality so all war films devolve into the the things that we imagine war to be about, men and mission, sacrifice and heroism and all of the other aspirational things we imagine about men at war.

Posted by: Kreplach at July 29, 2016 03:13 PM (3Xxpy)

59 I never gave up on Gibson. Everyone shit on him because of that ugly divorce, but that is rather common in divorces.
______________________________

You're right. She never wound up dead like Nicole Simpson, Natalie Wood, William Shatner's Wife, Robert Blake's wife, etc. etc.
Posted by: Elizabeth Warren at July 29, 2016 03:08 PM (4AVeu)

The Baldwin guy has been on display as being a brute, yet still gets the gigs.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at July 29, 2016 03:14 PM (qCMvj)

60 Oh, one more note. Doss live to 87

Posted by: Nip Sip at July 29, 2016 03:14 PM (F1iXz)

61 "These movies aren't made to provide a dry, academic commentary on historical wars. they're meant to comment on the present. "

Which is why you won't see a movie about Chosin.

Posted by: Lauren at July 29, 2016 03:14 PM (49Vdm)

62 "I knew he was born in US and moved to Australia but I had no idea Jeopardy! had a role in this."

Mel's dad maxed out on winnings in Jeopardy! under the old rules. (five times, plus the annual tournament of champions) He also got a big workmen's comp claim paid.

Posted by: Ignoramus at July 29, 2016 03:14 PM (r1fLd)

63 Annd I knew I would get willow and her bun'd in the old thread.

But I'd also note that, apart from being an intensely believing Christian, he's also very anti-war himself. So this is probably a film he wanted to make.

Sigh. One of these days I will remember this. What is the weird type of Catholicism that his father follows?

I agree with your caveats, ace, but I'm just glad that they're making any movie at all about a CMH recipient.

Posted by: alexthechick -Darth Sugartits at July 29, 2016 03:15 PM (mf5HN)

64 I remember reading about this guy in Okinawa at a museum I visited, I was absolutely amazed at his story.

Posted by: chelsea danger at July 29, 2016 03:15 PM (t8Ihb)

65 30 >>>> The family moved to Australia with Dad's Jeopardy winnings

WHAT?!!

I knew he was born in US and moved to Australia but I had no idea Jeopardy! had a role in this.
Posted by: ace at July 29, 2016 03:05 PM (dciA+)
------------------------------------
Heh.
Wiki says it was settlement money from a lawsuit.
But I like the Jeopardy story better!

Posted by: Margarita DeVille at July 29, 2016 03:15 PM (T/5A0)

66 That's why spectator sports are popular. It's black and white: My team against your team.

Thunderdome. Two enter, one leaves.

Posted by: rickb223 TEXIT at July 29, 2016 03:15 PM (Yu4ah)

67 Ah okay I checked because I thought it was a little more complicated than he was a pacifist. He believed the war was just and he should serve but not carry a gun. That's different than hey war hurts plants and other living things dude.

Posted by: alexthechick -Darth Sugartits at July 29, 2016 03:17 PM (mf5HN)

68
What part does Sugartits play?

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at July 29, 2016 03:17 PM (9P3OG)

69 What the fritos movie were you watching Ace? The Four Feathers was a movie about a coward who redeemed himself through later bravery. (The original was, I didn't see the remake).

As to Hacksaw Ridge, if you have someone who (misguidedly, IMO, but sincerely) objects to bearing arms, which is better: to have them serve as a medic under fire, or to fight forest fires far away from the flying bullets. Done correctly, it could be quite a film...

(or to put it another way, would you have more respect for someone who refuses conscription and goes to prison, or one of the precious snowflakes who went to Canada)

Posted by: southcentralpa at July 29, 2016 03:17 PM (Xs9BT)

70 I just read his citation. It gave me chills.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desmond_Doss

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at July 29, 2016 03:18 PM (Zu3d9)

71 "As Truffaut said, I'ts impossible to make an anti-war film. "

Kubrick's Paths of Glory.

Posted by: Ignoramus at July 29, 2016 03:18 PM (r1fLd)

72 Watched the trailer. Very good.

Men like Doss seem more like saints. Really extraordinary.
Also stubborn sons of bitches.

Posted by: @votermom at July 29, 2016 03:18 PM (7lVbc)

73 The family moved to Australia with Dad's Jeopardy winnings

Posted by: wolf blitzer at July 29, 2016 03:18 PM (LdMbv)

74 Annd I knew I would get willow and her bun'd in the old thread.

But I'd also note that, apart from being an intensely believing Christian, he's also very anti-war himself. So this is probably a film he wanted to make.

Sigh. One of these days I will remember this. What is the weird type of Catholicism that his father follows?

I agree with your caveats, ace, but I'm just glad that they're making any movie at all about a CMH recipient.
Posted by: alexthechick -Darth Sugartits at July 29, 2016 03:15 PM (mf5HN)

ace's link says

Desmond Doss was a conscientious objector, a Seventh Day Adventist, drafted into the Army during World War II. The tenets of his faith forbade him from carrying a weapon.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at July 29, 2016 03:19 PM (qCMvj)

75 Mel Gibson will always be a better man than 99% of the scumbag, child molesting, sychophantic fake dishonest Hollywood crowd.

And there is one person in Hollywood who knows it, Robert Downey, Jr. Remember when he asked the crowd at the Oscars to forgive Mel?

http://preview.tinyurl.com/Downey-Gibson-Oscars-Forgive

As if anyone in that crowd of freaks really possessed true moral authority over either Downey or Gibson, then it now.

Look at the faces in that crowd. They smirk and continue thinking they are superior to Mel while thinking which underaged aspiring actor they're going to rape after the Oscars are over, or about which one of their friends wives they are screwing, or about the drug and alcohol combo they are going to try at the after party that might kill them.

The mistake Downey and Gibson both made in that video was even asking that crowd for forgiveness. It is like going to Satan and confessing your sins, rather than God.

Still a very touching moment between two decent people who have leaned humility and foregiveness.

Posted by: Sharkman at July 29, 2016 03:19 PM (qBwPq)

76 Funny. Back when I lived in L.A., I knew a writer who mostly did TV movies. His favorite film, according to him, was the 1939 Four Feathers, which I had never heard of.

So they made a TV movie version of it around '78, and he got to co-write the film. Lemme tell you, he was one happy camper...

Posted by: HH at July 29, 2016 03:19 PM (DrCtv)

77 "Wiki says it was settlement money from a lawsuit.
But I like the Jeopardy story better!"

They're both true. Settlement was the bigger bucks

Posted by: Ignoramus at July 29, 2016 03:19 PM (r1fLd)

78

Finally, from a Catholic priest: pacifism in the face of mortal danger is immoral:

http://tinyurl.com/j4o7lrd

Posted by: RondinellaMamma at July 29, 2016 03:19 PM (oQQwD)

79 Mel's next movie after this should be

Personal Recollections of Joan of Arc by Mark Twain.

It would likely kill feminism's false narrative in the minds of the young for decades.

Posted by: simplemind at July 29, 2016 03:20 PM (JTwsP)

80 Sigh. One of these days I will remember this. What is the weird type of Catholicism that his father follows?

I agree with your caveats, ace, but I'm just glad that they're making any movie at all about a CMH recipient.
Posted by: alexthechick -Darth Sugartits at July 29, 2016 03:15 PM (mf5HN)

He's Tridentine I believe. They are serious old school Vatican I believers. All masses in Latin. The priest faces the altar, not the congregation, etc.

Posted by: Aetius451AD at July 29, 2016 03:20 PM (3ZoRf)

81 As for Mel Gibson movies my favorite was Lethal Weapon. The second was OK but they never should have gone on to 3 and 4.

My next favorite movie of his was The Patriot which was supposed to have been a loose adaptation of Francis Marion, The Swamp Fox. It was Very loose, but I still liked it.

Next in line I liked We Were Soldiers. It is really kind of a tossup between that one and The Patriot.

I thought Braveheart was very good but I would have liked it better if they had not shown cutting that girl's throat and drawing and quartering him in the end. I know that was historically accurate but I just would prefer not seeing it.

All in all he a a good actor and movie maker.

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at July 29, 2016 03:21 PM (mpXpK)

82 65 Wiki says it was settlement money from a lawsuit.
But I like the Jeopardy story better!
Posted by: Margarita DeVille at July 29, 2016 03:15 PM (T/5A0)

-----------------

Maybe it was a lawsuit from someone who placed him in jeopardy.

Posted by: Kevin DuBrow at July 29, 2016 03:21 PM (bMcUX)

83 This reminds me of The Lighthorsemen, where Mel was in front of the camera.

Posted by: Jim at July 29, 2016 03:21 PM (rnwV8)

84 The family moved to Australia with Dad's Jeopardy winnings

Posted by: wolf blitzer

The family moved to Australia with Dad's Jeopardy winnings

Posted by: Amy Schumer

Posted by: rickb223 TEXIT at July 29, 2016 03:21 PM (Yu4ah)

85 I love truffaults covered in chocolate.

They've got some pretty smart pigs in France, I can tell yah.

Posted by: joey biden at July 29, 2016 03:21 PM (LdMbv)

86 I think some filmmakers try to be too nuanced, thinking these simple white/black stories are too simplistic, but honestly, it's a MOVIE, not a history book. I kind of want things simplified so I have a clear rooting interest.

But enough about Zack Snyder DC movies...

Posted by: buzzion at July 29, 2016 03:22 PM (z/Ubi)

87 Wasn't the 1939 four feathers about war on the Sudan, against Moslems?

Posted by: Yo! at July 29, 2016 03:22 PM (GwIKd)

88 Someone or other said that war was an extension of diplomacy. It certainly seems like an inevitability over any length of time. If history means anything.
I imagine that pacifism is not the norm, since it takes a really really secure society to practice it, or a willingness to accept a short life expectancy.

Posted by: tubal at July 29, 2016 03:22 PM (d6TTt)

89 81 As for Mel Gibson movies my favorite was Lethal Weapon. The second was OK but they never should have gone on to 3 and 4.

My next favorite movie of his was The Patriot which was supposed to have been a loose adaptation of Francis Marion, The Swamp Fox. It was Very loose, but I still liked it.

Next in line I liked We Were Soldiers. It is really kind of a tossup between that one and The Patriot.

I thought Braveheart was very good but I would have liked it better if they had not shown cutting that girl's throat and drawing and quartering him in the end. I know that was historically accurate but I just would prefer not seeing it.

All in all he a a good actor and movie maker.
Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at July 29, 2016 03:21 PM (mpXpK)

The Passion of the Christ is a great movie. I have only been able to watch it once though. I own it on bluray somewhere.

Posted by: Aetius451AD at July 29, 2016 03:22 PM (3ZoRf)

90
Ace, I understand completely what you're saying. But, after reading his MoH citation, and considering what it was that he did, it in no way is parallel to that dastardly "Peace citation" or whatever the hell it was that SCOAMF instituted a few years back.

Plus, in the movie, you see what the guy did and what the men with the guns did as well. True, I'm sure there will be quite a number of scenes with his homelife to show why he's a noble peaceful boy.

But at least it ain't Private Eddie Slovik. I guess that's something given the day and age we live in.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at July 29, 2016 03:22 PM (9P3OG)

91 Pacifists can only exist because of a Nation's warriors.

Posted by: Mr. Feverhead at July 29, 2016 03:23 PM (j1Wvr)

92 As for Mel Gibson movies my favorite was

Mad Max

Posted by: rickb223 TEXIT at July 29, 2016 03:23 PM (Yu4ah)

93 No love for Gallipoli?

And apropos of nothing, I think our language needs a word for trivially profound statements.

Posted by: Grump928(c) says Free Soothie! at July 29, 2016 03:24 PM (evdj2)

94 Posted by: Aetius451AD at July 29, 2016 03:22 PM (3ZoRf)

Apocalypto is a very interesting, very well made movie. And Gibson was in Gallipoli, another solid effort.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at July 29, 2016 03:24 PM (Zu3d9)

95 That's why spectator sports are popular. It's black and white: My team against your team.

Thunderdome. Two enter, one leaves.

Posted by: rickb223 TEXIT at July 29, 2016 03:15 PM (Yu4ah)

Hunger Games was a little more complicated.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at July 29, 2016 03:24 PM (qCMvj)

96 The Patriot and Lethal Weapon 1 are my favorite Mel Gibson movies. Braveheart is #3.

Movies he's directed - Apocalypto was good for blowing away the "noble savage" myth.

Posted by: @votermom at July 29, 2016 03:24 PM (7lVbc)

97 Pacifists can only exist because of a Nation's warriors.

They can still exist, just as slaves.

Posted by: Grump928(c) says Free Soothie! at July 29, 2016 03:24 PM (evdj2)

98 Fr. George Rutler has written some good books FYI.

But he isn't a novelty. He's riffing on Thomas Aquinas and current events.

Posted by: simplemind at July 29, 2016 03:25 PM (JTwsP)

99 And apropos of nothing, I think our language needs a word for trivially profound statements.

Shutthefrontdoor?

Posted by: rickb223 TEXIT at July 29, 2016 03:25 PM (Yu4ah)

100 71 "As Truffaut said, I'ts impossible to make an anti-war film. "

Kubrick's Paths of Glory.
Posted by: Ignoramus at July 29, 2016 03:18 PM (r1fLd)

I'd argue that it wasn't so much anti-war as it was anti-incompetence. Then again, World War 1 was just utterly unnecessary and it may have been the very beginning of the suicide of western civilization,

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at July 29, 2016 03:25 PM (9P3OG)

101 " The priest faces the altar, not the congregation, etc. "

This is apparently a huge debate amongst my Catholic friends. From an outside perspective I've come down on the "face the alter" side.

Posted by: Lauren at July 29, 2016 03:25 PM (49Vdm)

102 I'm not a big fan of many war movies, but it sounds like a fine film, and Doss sounds like a good man. Here is his obituary:

http://preview.tinyurl.com/hboqzh2

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at July 29, 2016 03:25 PM (HXQyP)

103 89 The Passion of the Christ is a great movie. I have only been able to watch it once though. I own it on bluray somewhere.

Posted by: Aetius451AD at July 29, 2016 03:22 PM (3ZoRf)

I have not seen that one.

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at July 29, 2016 03:25 PM (mpXpK)

104 It does look good.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Racist for Dinosaurs at July 29, 2016 03:26 PM (Nwg0u)

105 Someone or other said that war was an extension of diplomacy.

I've always preferred to think of it as Armed Robbery writ large.

Posted by: Grump928(c) says Free Soothie! at July 29, 2016 03:26 PM (evdj2)

106 That's different than hey war hurts plants and other living things dude.
Posted by: alexthechick -Darth Sugartits at July 29, 2016 03:17 PM (mf5HN

--------------------

That is the pacifism of today. That was what I referring to upthread.

The pacifism of today is what we saw when Panetta and General Allen were speaking at the DNC convention.

Posted by: Soona at July 29, 2016 03:27 PM (Fmupd)

107 You will go into battle without a weapon, but first...

Actually looks pretty good.

Posted by: eleven at July 29, 2016 03:27 PM (qUNWi)

108 Mel Gibson is a truly great director, and his films--along with Clint Eastwood's, Scorcese and the Coen Brothers' deserve to be seen.
But he also has a new film, Blood Father, where he just appears as an actor, and it looks really good.

Posted by: JoeF. at July 29, 2016 03:27 PM (zXKVj)

109 105 Someone or other said that war was an extension of diplomacy.

I've always preferred to think of it as Armed Robbery writ large.
Posted by: Grump928(c) says Free Soothie! at July 29, 2016 03:26 PM (evdj2)

G-d forbid anyone should have to go through it. Sadly, many will.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at July 29, 2016 03:28 PM (9P3OG)

110 101 " The priest faces the altar, not the congregation, etc. "

This is apparently a huge debate amongst my Catholic friends. From an outside perspective I've come down on the "face the alter" side.

Posted by: Lauren at July 29, 2016 03:25 PM (49Vdm)

Most latin masses you go to (pro-tip want to find the most conservative parish? find the one that offers regular latin mass) they will do the full tridentine service. I admit myself that I prefer it that way as it gives more of the point that the priest is leading the faithful in worship of god, the congregation in not the focus of the service- God is.

Kind of a meaningful distinction in my mind.

Posted by: Aetius451AD at July 29, 2016 03:28 PM (3ZoRf)

111 Isn't Mel Gibson supposed to work on a sequel to The Passion?

Posted by: JoeF. at July 29, 2016 03:28 PM (zXKVj)

112 Hey! I was banned for a while this morning but now I'm back! I'M BACK AND THERE'S NO STOPPING ME NOW!!!

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Racist for Dinosaurs at July 29, 2016 03:28 PM (Nwg0u)

113 Honestly. Someone please tell Mel Gibson to read Personal Recollections of Joan of Arc by Mark Twain.

Probably in the public domain. Was twain's own personal favorite of all his works. Truly an amazing historical character. Might actually put some backbone back into the French. Lord hear my prayer. . .

Posted by: simplemind at July 29, 2016 03:28 PM (JTwsP)

114 98. I didn't know Father Rutler was still around. I watched his program back in the 90's, and he was by far one of the most intelligent men on the tube.

Posted by: Your Decidedly Devious Uncle Palpatine, Still Accepting Harem Applicants at July 29, 2016 03:28 PM (b8WNi)

115 Mel is a bit of a nut because he's had difficulty reconciling a worldy existence with the extreme Catholicism of his father.

His ostracism from Hollywood started before Sugartits. I'd take the bet that the Hollywood Gay Mafia never forgave him for the defenestration scene in Braveheart. "I am skilled in the arts of war and military tactics sire"

Mel felt compelled to make The Passion of Christ but Hollywood wouldn't finance it, so Mel took a huge risk and financed it himself. Then Hollywood wouldn't distribute it, so Mel had to create a novel network that levered off church groups. In the end, Mel made an enormous fortune on Passion, but there was lots of bad blood with Hollywood.

Posted by: Ignoramus at July 29, 2016 03:29 PM (r1fLd)

116 Keep on this track ... and you folks will be sneaking into basements to see a bootleg remake of one of my works. Different casting, of course. And the calls to prayer over the PA will fvck up the experience a bit.

Posted by: D W Griffith at July 29, 2016 03:29 PM (KqFwU)

117 He's Tridentine I believe. They are serious old school Vatican I believers. All masses in Latin. The priest faces the altar, not the congregation, etc.
Posted by: Aetius451AD at July 29, 2016 03:20 PM (3ZoRf)

That's it. They reject Vatican II right? I'm not trying to start a religious fight, I simply can never remember what it is. Is there Pope of Avignon stuff in there too?

Maybe it's just me, but there's a difference in kind (to me) between conscientious objector and pacifist. One is applying some kind of just war theory to each military engagement and saying what their beliefs do and do not allow and, most importantly, still attempting to support their country. See Doss and I cannot carry a weapon or kill but I will be a medic. Or others who were I cannot go to the front lines but I can work on a supply line. That's not pacifism, that's attempting to engage a terrible, serious real world issue in a terrible and serious way. Do people abuse that? Of course because humans are human. But as a theoretical matter, it is consistent and is an attempt to deal with real world consequences of religious and philosophical belief.

Pacifism, on the other hand, is utter childishness. War is bad, dude. You should never hurt anyone, maaaaaaaan. Yeah. No. There are questions to which violence is the best answer. The refusal to engage that question speaks of moral immaturity, not moral superiority,.

Not that. I have an opinion about that. Or anything. koff

Posted by: alexthechick -Darth Sugartits at July 29, 2016 03:29 PM (mf5HN)

118 106
That is the pacifism of today. That was what I referring to upthread.

The pacifism of today is what we saw when Panetta and General Allen were speaking at the DNC convention.
Posted by: Soona at July 29, 2016 03:27 PM (Fmupd)

Make no mistake. Those booing Panetta and General Allen would gladly aid an invading army, help to round us up and volunteer to be in the firing squads.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at July 29, 2016 03:30 PM (9P3OG)

119 War!
Uhhh!
What is it good for?
Hollywood movies!
Say it again!

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Racist for Dinosaurs at July 29, 2016 03:30 PM (Nwg0u)

120 Posted by: Aetius451AD at July 29, 2016 03:28 PM (3ZoRf)
I've never seen the mass in Latin. My husband said when he was little the priest faced the altar and it was in Latin.

Posted by: CaliGirl at July 29, 2016 03:31 PM (eU/yZ)

121 111 Isn't Mel Gibson supposed to work on a sequel to The Passion?
Posted by: JoeF. at July 29, 2016 03:28 PM (zXKVj)

Yes. "The Passion Fruit" starring Harvey Fierstein.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at July 29, 2016 03:31 PM (9P3OG)

122 I just read his citation. It gave me chills.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desmond_Doss
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at July 29, 2016 03:18 PM (Zu3d9)

crap, you made me look

remarkable man, anyone would have been blessed to know him it sounds like

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at July 29, 2016 03:31 PM (qCMvj)

123 But he isn't a novelty. He's riffing on Thomas Aquinas and current events.
Posted by: simplemind at July 29, 2016 03:25 PM (JTwsP)

Once upon time, yes, he wasn't a novelty, when Catholic clerics would defend not only their faith with theology and force when necessary, but also others who were in physical danger ( see St Gabriel Possenti). Nowadays, far too many have gone over to the SJW-dark-side.

Posted by: RondinellaMamma at July 29, 2016 03:31 PM (oQQwD)

124 Personal Recollections of Joan of Arc by Mark Twain.
----------------------

I'm trying to read it. Still stuck on hanging of the flower garlands on the fairy tree.

Stuck on the beginning of the book about Telsa that votermom reviewed several days ago.

If it doesn't start with explosions, I lose interest.

Posted by: Filgert Golightly at July 29, 2016 03:31 PM (3DO6e)

125 Collecting up bodies don't win wars, boy.

Posted by: Alvin York at July 29, 2016 03:32 PM (j1Wvr)

126 The savages were the good guys in apocalypo. It was the Maya empire which was evil

Posted by: Boulder terlit hobo at July 29, 2016 03:32 PM (oEqQX)

127 I'd argue that it wasn't so much anti-war as it was anti-incompetence. Then again, World War 1 was just utterly unnecessary and it may have been the very beginning of the suicide of western civilization,

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at July 29, 2016 03:25 PM (9P3OG)

The first Gibson movie I saw was Gallipoli, which would be in that category I think.

Mel Gibson in his prime was hotter than asphalt in July.

Posted by: stace...TEXIT at July 29, 2016 03:32 PM (ozZau)

128 War is an ugly thing but not the ugliest of things.

John Stuart Mills has the best quote in history regard to war and 'pacifism' .

Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck at July 29, 2016 03:32 PM (l2MEF)

129 I have not seen that one.
Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at July 29, 2016 03:25 PM (mpXpK)

It is good. The problem is that it is the biggest mirror you will ever see from a movie. A LOT of people saw it and thought it anti-semitic (I actually got in an email exchange with a guy at NR over this.)

My point is, Gibson chose the movie to be a testament to the sins of man and hence the Love he felt for us in enduring them. There is a theme in the movie where Christ is in the Garden and the avatar of Satan appears and tells him. "Give up. No one can take it all." The idea of Sin being this massive weight that Christ takes on runs throughout the film.

In the film pretty much every vice is on display (mostly directed AT Christ.) NO ONE comes off looking better than anyone else.

I walked out of that movie just stunned and shamed. And maybe understanding just a small bit of Christ's sacrifice.

Posted by: Aetius451AD at July 29, 2016 03:33 PM (3ZoRf)

130 Bingo.

Most pacifists these days aren't. They're rooting for the other side.

Posted by: Your Decidedly Devious Uncle Palpatine, Still Accepting Harem Applicants at July 29, 2016 03:33 PM (S8bq1)

131 126 The savages were the good guys in apocalypo. It was the Maya empire which was evil
Posted by: Boulder terlit hobo at July 29, 2016 03:32 PM (oEqQX)

They were all savages. Conquistadors on the horizon as the good guys, or at least karma.
So anti-SJW

Posted by: @votermom at July 29, 2016 03:33 PM (7lVbc)

132 115, I'm with you. That scene with the sodomite getting tossed was definitely the spark the fuse. The Passion bothered them big time, and he handed them the gun they used to shoot him with his drunken rant.
I'm glad he's making movies again.

Posted by: JoeF. at July 29, 2016 03:33 PM (zXKVj)

133 "I've never seen the mass in Latin. My husband said when he was little the priest faced the altar and it was in Latin."

The itty bitty Catholic Church in the coal mining town where I grew up did the full Latin mass. Id go with my friend sometimes and for the longest time thought that the difference between Catholics and Episcopalians (what we were) was just that Episcopalians spoke English. Haha.

Maybe not too far off now.

Posted by: Lauren at July 29, 2016 03:33 PM (49Vdm)

134 Hey! I was banned for a while this morning but now I'm back! I'M BACK AND THERE'S NO STOPPING ME NOW!!!
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks

ZOT!

sniff sniff. Hmmm. Ozone.

Posted by: rickb223 TEXIT at July 29, 2016 03:34 PM (Yu4ah)

135 Speaking of movie violence and weapons and shit, Matt Damon and his Bourne movies is like a porn star advocating chastity.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Racist for Dinosaurs at July 29, 2016 03:34 PM (Nwg0u)

136 War!
Uhhh!
What is it good for?
Stop stealing my lines!

Posted by: zombie leo tolstoy at July 29, 2016 03:34 PM (LdMbv)

137 The savages were the good guys in apocalypo. It was the Maya empire which was evil

My favorite scene in that movie is when the bad guy almost gets a tree dropped on him and he shouts the Aztec equivalent of HEY YOUS! I'M WALKIN'EAR!

Well, that and the "potency herb" aftermath.

Posted by: Grump928(c) says Free Soothie! at July 29, 2016 03:34 PM (evdj2)

138 Stuck on the beginning of the book about Telsa that votermom reviewed several days ago.

If it doesn't start with explosions, I lose interest.
Posted by: Filgert Golightly at July 29, 2016 03:31 PM (3DO6e)

One would think Tesla would manage a few explosions.

Posted by: @votermom at July 29, 2016 03:34 PM (7lVbc)

139 Movies he's directed - Apocalypto was good for blowing away the "noble savage" myth.
Posted by: @votermom at July 29, 2016 03:24 PM (7lVbc)

I continue to find it hilarious that people were all shocked SHOCKED that Apocalypto was so violent.

Yes. A movie about the Mayans that is violent. Oh my stars and garters, fetch me my fainting couch.

And mmmmhmmmm I agree on the center of the Sun hotness of Mel in his prime.

Posted by: alexthechick -Darth Sugartits at July 29, 2016 03:35 PM (mf5HN)

140 118 Make no mistake. Those booing Panetta and General
Allen would gladly aid an invading army, help to round us up and
volunteer to be in the firing squads.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at July 29, 2016 03:30 PM (9P3OG)

The fact that they booed and turned their back on a MOH winner showed me what the true State of the Democrat party is. And it all started at that convention in Chicago when the anti-US fanatics took over the Party. The MFM blamed all that violence on the Chicago cops and Dailey but it was all the work of the communist financed radicals that started it. The difference then VS now is that Russia financed those so-called antiwar radicals then through the Eastern block networks vs Soros financing them now.

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at July 29, 2016 03:35 PM (mpXpK)

141 "The fact that they booed and turned their back on a MOH winner"

Well you're talking about the crew that booed God so...

Posted by: Lauren at July 29, 2016 03:36 PM (49Vdm)

142 135 Speaking of movie violence and weapons and shit, Matt Damon and his Bourne movies is like a porn star advocating chastity.
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Racist for Dinosaurs at July 29, 2016 03:34 PM (Nwg0u)

You mean Chazz, no?

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at July 29, 2016 03:37 PM (9P3OG)

143 Ah, Ace...we're not really fighting this war. We're just giving it lip service.

Posted by: creeper at July 29, 2016 03:37 PM (Nhjs9)

144 This looks like it could be great. Mel Gibson makes excellent war movies. I don't know that it's a "pacifist is braver than everyone else" movie, it seems more like a movie about a man who would put himself in great danger to help people and stay true to his beliefs all the while.

Posted by: Insomniac at July 29, 2016 03:37 PM (0mRoj)

145 That's it. They reject Vatican II right? I'm not trying to start a religious fight, I simply can never remember what it is. Is there Pope of Avignon stuff in there too?

Posted by: alexthechick -Darth Sugartits at July 29, 2016 03:29 PM (mf5HN)

I am not actually sure which of the groups his dad belongs to. There are a few of them. Some of them are members of the SSPX , which denies the legitamacy of the second Vatican council. They are actually separated from the church, sort of, to varying degrees.

There are also ones within the church who just like saying the latin mass (I cannot remember the order right now, but it ends with Peter and they all say the mass in latin at the churches they are at- or another close by. They will also do vernacular masses as well.)

Posted by: Aetius451AD at July 29, 2016 03:38 PM (3ZoRf)

146 "The Passion of the Christ is a great movie. I have only been able to watch it once though. I own it on bluray somewhere."

The passion of the Christ is apparently cinematically almost shot for shot visualization of the "Dolores Passion of Our Lord Jesus Christ" a vision experienced Blessed Ann Catherine Emmerich and recorded by her friend and published writer Brentano (sp?). Never saw the movie, but I read the book prior to every Easter. Powerful. It is somewhat controversial however for reasons explained in detail in the forward and having to do with skeptism over Brentano's possible enhancements of the vision.

Still amazingly powerful reading.

Posted by: simplemind at July 29, 2016 03:38 PM (JTwsP)

147 96 The Patriot and Lethal Weapon 1 are my favorite Mel Gibson movies. Braveheart is #3.

Movies he's directed - Apocalypto was good for blowing away the "noble savage" myth.
Posted by: @votermom at July 29, 2016 03:24 PM (7lVbc)

We Were Soldiers is also very good.

Posted by: Insomniac at July 29, 2016 03:38 PM (0mRoj)

148 War is an ugly thing but not the ugliest of things.

John Stuart Mills has the best quote in history regard to war and 'pacifism' .
Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck at July 29, 2016 03:32 PM (l2MEF)

One thing that made a huge impression on me, which I made sure to pass along to my kid, was the studies on genocide/democide. Far more people are killed by their own totalitarian governments than in war.

Posted by: stace...TEXIT at July 29, 2016 03:39 PM (ozZau)

149 Has no one mentioned Attack Force Z yet??

Heathens.

Posted by: Banana Splits Guy at July 29, 2016 03:39 PM (ImTQ/)

150 Never crow when you get unbanned. Just slip quietly back in the door.

Posted by: creeper at July 29, 2016 03:39 PM (Nhjs9)

151 I didn't think the Patriot was that good but it does have one of my top five movie scenes ever. When he took his two young sons to rescue his oldest son from the British was spectacular wrapped in awesome.

Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck at July 29, 2016 03:39 PM (l2MEF)

152 There are questions to which violence is the best
answer. The refusal to engage that question speaks of moral immaturity,
not moral superiority.

Posted by: alexthechick -Darth Sugartits at July 29, 2016 03:29 PM (mf5HN)

There were concentration camps built before WWII...during peacetime.

Ask a survivor of one of them how he or she feels about the immorality of the use of violence.

As you will probably agree, pacifism is a simplistic answer to a very complicated question.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at July 29, 2016 03:39 PM (Zu3d9)

153 This looks like it could be great. Mel Gibson makes excellent war movies. I don't know that it's a "pacifist is braver than everyone else" movie, it seems more like a movie about a man who would put himself in great danger to help people and stay true to his beliefs all the while.
Posted by: Insomniac at July 29, 2016 03:37 PM (0mRoj)

To continue harping on my own point, is it that the term conscientious objector was so tainted by the abuses of Vietnam era "believers" so as to render the term useless when applied to WWII? Because, yeah, the standards to meet such and the very meaning of the term itself were different then.

Posted by: alexthechick -Darth Sugartits at July 29, 2016 03:39 PM (mf5HN)

154 140 Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at July 29, 2016 03:35 PM (mpXpK)

Among my hobbies is model airplanes and on one of the websites is posted old magazines. In the July 1969 issue of "RC Modeler" the editorial is reserved to praise our men in the military, then serving in Vietnam, and excoriate the anti-Americanism of the time.

It's frightening how the words used are an exact description of what we are seeing today.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at July 29, 2016 03:39 PM (9P3OG)

155 There are also ones within the church who just like saying the latin mass (I cannot remember the order right now, but it ends with Peter and they all say the mass in latin at the churches they are at- or another close by. They will also do vernacular masses as well.)
Posted by: Aetius451AD at July 29, 2016 03:38 PM (3ZoRf)

Honest to God I first thought that said venereal diseases.

Posted by: Insomniac at July 29, 2016 03:39 PM (0mRoj)

156 Pacifism, on the other hand, is utter childishness. War is bad, dude. You should never hurt anyone, maaaaaaaan. Yeah. No. There are questions to which violence is the best answer. The refusal to engage that question speaks of moral immaturity, not moral superiority,.

Not that. I have an opinion about that. Or anything. koff
Posted by: alexthechick -Darth Sugartits at July 29, 2016 03:29 PM (mf5HN)

--------------

My first ever fianc� was a pacifist. We started talking about that one night and she declared that she would never raise a harmful hand to anyone. I asked her if she would defend her children if they were being physically threatened and she said, no.

The next day she was my first ever ex-fianc�.

Posted by: Soona at July 29, 2016 03:40 PM (Fmupd)

157 This story looks to be right up the moron's alley.....

Bikini-clad Swedish cop makes arrest while sunbathing

http://tinyurl.com/zab7d8g

Posted by: Tami at July 29, 2016 03:40 PM (Enq6K)

158 Nuke the bastards.

Posted by: creeper at July 29, 2016 03:40 PM (Nhjs9)

159 One would think Tesla would manage a few explosions.
Or his dangerous invention that can electrocute elephants, that dangerous Sebian dick!!!!

Posted by: zombie thomas edison at July 29, 2016 03:40 PM (LdMbv)

160 I went to college in the 60's and had a lot of chicken shit liberal friends that didn't want to fight in Vietnam, because, they were chicken shit.

I had one good friend, who's dad was a state senator, that declared himself a CO. His local draft board called BS and drafted him.

He refused to go, was convicted and sent to Federal Prison. All the time he was safe in his conviction.

I went to Richmond to see him in prison. Bravest thing I ever saw. He was not BS.

Did his time, Carter pardoned all of them and he is now a flaming liberal lawyer. Haven't seen him in 20 years.

That's all I got.

Posted by: Nip Sip at July 29, 2016 03:41 PM (F1iXz)

161 The itty bitty Catholic Church in the coal mining town where I grew up did the full Latin mass. Id go with my friend sometimes and for the longest time thought that the difference between Catholics and Episcopalians (what we were) was just that Episcopalians spoke English. Haha.

Maybe not too far off now.
Posted by: Lauren at July 29, 2016 03:33 PM (49Vdm)

Episcopalians used to be very close to pre-Vatican I catholics since they split before Vatican II and pretty much had the same service and heirarchy, just with the king of england in the Pope's spot. A huge exception.

Now it is just one huge mess.

Posted by: Aetius451AD at July 29, 2016 03:41 PM (3ZoRf)

162 156 Posted by: Soona at July 29, 2016 03:40 PM (Fmupd)

Soon to be a major motion picture:

"I Married Wilhelmina Horton." Almost.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at July 29, 2016 03:41 PM (9P3OG)

163 Posted by: alexthechick -Darth Sugartits at July 29, 2016 03:15 PM (mf5HN)

I have not looked too hard at all of the beliefs of Gibson's dad's particular little church, but it is my understanding that they're a variant of sedevacantists. Basically they believe that at some point in the more modern era, the person elected pope was really an anti-pope and that the Chair and Office of Peter is empty. Which one varies depending on which schismatic group in question, although most of them are in agreement that the popes were valid up to and including St. Pius X. After him it depends on the group as to where they think the break happened. These sects almost universally poo-poo Vatican II and are very hard-core on following the old pre-1960s rite and calendar.

Posted by: Mandy P. (Not Patinkin), lurking lurker who lurks at July 29, 2016 03:41 PM (KkVB6)

164 [Maybe you don't want Zuwanie at the U.N.]

Movie looks great yadda yadda.

And GOD DAMN IT, Hillary and Trump are now TIED in the RCP average. Two days ago he was up 1.1, then yesterday 0.9, and today it's a bloody tie.

I'm off to find some posts by Dave in Fla.

Posted by: iforgot says God bless Snorky at July 29, 2016 03:42 PM (pC96u)

165 Mel is always good when he plays the ordinary guy, the good husband and father who, when placed in a difficult position then armed with pointy things, turns into a whirling dervish of death.

Posted by: Grump928(c) says Free Soothie! at July 29, 2016 03:42 PM (evdj2)

166 Ransom and Payback are two of Mel's best.

Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck at July 29, 2016 03:42 PM (l2MEF)

167 Posted by: Soona at July 29, 2016 03:40 PM (Fmupd)

Is it safe to assume she didn't have kids?

Posted by: creeper at July 29, 2016 03:42 PM (Nhjs9)

168 We Were Soldiers is also very good.
Posted by: Insomniac at July 29, 2016 03:38 PM (0mRoj)

--------------

Read the book. Much better.

Posted by: Soona at July 29, 2016 03:42 PM (Fmupd)

169 The family moved to Australia with Dad's Jeopardy winnings

Posted by: wolf blitzer

The family moved to Australia with Dad's Jeopardy winnings

Posted by: Amy Schumer

Posted by: rickb223 TEXIT at July 29, 2016 03:21 PM (Yu4ah)

A little Jeopardy mood music:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvUZijEuNDQ

Posted by: Weird Al at July 29, 2016 03:42 PM (vBeA5)

170 To continue harping on my own point, is it that the term conscientious objector was so tainted by the abuses of Vietnam era "believers" so as to render the term useless when applied to WWII? Because, yeah, the standards to meet such and the very meaning of the term itself were different then.
Posted by: alexthechick -Darth Sugartits at July 29, 2016 03:39 PM (mf5HN)

That very well could be. Take Sgt. Alvin York as another example. Conscientious objector due to sincere religious beliefs who became a WW1 war hero. In the Vietnam era, conscientious objection was more of a political/filthy commie hippie thing.

Posted by: Insomniac at July 29, 2016 03:43 PM (0mRoj)

171 >>>The next day she was my first ever ex-fianc�e.
Posted by: Soona at July 29, 2016 03:40 PM (Fmupd)

I've heard you should have anal first.

Posted by: Banana Splits Guy at July 29, 2016 03:43 PM (ImTQ/)

172 Pacifism is a mental and emotional illness.

Posted by: Cactus of Liberty at July 29, 2016 03:44 PM (a94gW)

173 "Mel is very good when he plays the ordinary guy who....turns into a dervish of death."

That's a winning formula if I say so myself.

Posted by: Liam Neeson at July 29, 2016 03:44 PM (zXKVj)

174 I've heard you should have anal first.

Posted by: Banana Splits Guy at July 29, 2016 03:43 PM (ImTQ/)

Who said he didn't?

Posted by: Nip Sip at July 29, 2016 03:44 PM (F1iXz)

175 "There is a theme in the movie where Christ is in the Garden and the avatar of Satan appears and tells him. "Give up. No one can take it all." "

In the Dolores passion of our lord Jesus Christ this is extended quite a bit. The agony in the garden -- whole new meanings.

Posted by: simplemind at July 29, 2016 03:44 PM (C6xeQ)

176 Is it safe to assume she didn't have kids?
Posted by: creeper at July 29, 2016 03:42 PM (Nhjs9)

-----------

No. We were both freshman in college. This was back in 1967.

Posted by: Soona at July 29, 2016 03:44 PM (Fmupd)

177 168 Read the book. Much better.

Posted by: Soona at July 29, 2016 03:42 PM (Fmupd)

My wife has the Kindle version of that book. maybe I should try to read it if I can transfer it to mine.

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at July 29, 2016 03:44 PM (mpXpK)

178 I've heard you should have anal first.

and tell her you are dumping her during. Eight seconds, Cowboy.

Posted by: Grump928(c) says Free Soothie! at July 29, 2016 03:45 PM (evdj2)

179 Why should I trade one tyrant 3000 miles away for 3000 tyrants one mile away ?

Posted by: Shit Mel Gibson Said at July 29, 2016 03:45 PM (KqFwU)

180 i don't care how good a movie it is: i'm not giving Hollywood a dime of my money...

F them all, sideways, with a tanker's bar wrapped in rusty concertina wire and sprinkled with white phosphorus.

Posted by: redc1c4 at July 29, 2016 03:45 PM (i6Yqt)

181
The next day she was my first ever ex-fiance.
Posted by: Soona
--------------
The next day?
Heh. One last hurrah, huh?

Posted by: Chi at July 29, 2016 03:45 PM (9k6Db)

182 JSM deserves to be quoted fully.

War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.

Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck at July 29, 2016 03:45 PM (l2MEF)

183
My uncle was 4-F. He hated people giving him funny looks because he wasn't in uniform, pestered his brother, the unofficial head of the family for money to get an operation (a hernia maybe?), and he got himself patched up and declared 2-A or 2-B or something.

Ironically, my family had a business that did war work for the Navy and they could've got him a desk job, at least for a while. He had none of it. Joined the 27th Infantry, shipped out to the Pacific, saw action on Makin Island and was cut in half by a Jap machine gun on Saipan.

I can guarantee there was no one in that hall in Philly remotely matching that description.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at July 29, 2016 03:46 PM (9P3OG)

184 Honest to God I first thought that said venereal diseases.
Posted by: Insomniac at July 29, 2016 03:39 PM (0mRoj)

LOL! Well, this starts the Catholic jokes on it's own. Heh.

Actually, Pope Benedict was the first Pope to officially endorse the Society of St Peter's (or Fraternal Order of Saint Peter, or Fraternal Society of Saint Peter) use of the older form of the mass and explicitly allow it.

I really liked Pope Benedict.

Posted by: Aetius451AD at July 29, 2016 03:46 PM (3ZoRf)

185 >>>Ransom and Payback are two of Mel's best.
Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck at July 29, 2016 03:42 PM (l2MEF)<<<

... he's just killing my alligator bags and shooting holes in my suits. Man, that's just MEAN. That's MEAN, man.

Posted by: James Coburn in Payback at July 29, 2016 03:46 PM (H9MG5)

186

I could say it's a film about religious liberty

Note that this guy still served

Most CO'S say their belief requires them to be released from their service

In rac

Posted by: ThunderB at July 29, 2016 03:46 PM (YxH2u)

187 Posted by: Soona at July 29, 2016 03:40 PM (Fmupd)
I would disembowel someone trying to harm my family.

Posted by: CaliGirl at July 29, 2016 03:46 PM (eU/yZ)

188 179
Why should I trade one tyrant 3000 miles away for 3000 tyrants one mile away ?

Posted by: Shit Mel Gibson Said at July 29, 2016 03:45 PM (KqFwU)

LOL, I liked that line. Too bad it was said by someone in MA and not the Swamp Fox.

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at July 29, 2016 03:47 PM (mpXpK)

189
In fact, I never heard of any other CO who wasn't released

Posted by: ThunderB at July 29, 2016 03:47 PM (YxH2u)

190 Mel Gibson was incredible is Lethal Weapon 1 when he played a war veteran turned cop suffering from severe PTSD with multiple personalities one which had an English accent and one who had an Australian accent.

Posted by: Cactus of Liberty at July 29, 2016 03:47 PM (a94gW)

191 171 >>>The next day she was my first ever ex-fiance.
Posted by: Soona at July 29, 2016 03:40 PM (Fmupd)

I've heard you should have anal first.
Posted by: Banana Splits Guy at July 29, 2016 03:43 PM (ImTQ/)

You magnificent bastards, you read my post!!!

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at July 29, 2016 03:47 PM (9P3OG)

192 " Two days ago he was up 1.1, then yesterday 0.9, and today it's a bloody tie."

Not worried. A very small Convention bump, or more likely, polls will get spiked in Hillary's favor.

Posted by: Ignoramus at July 29, 2016 03:47 PM (r1fLd)

193 I will not raise a gun...

I will not throw a grenade...

I will not kill a fellow human...

I will go to battle unarmed...

I will risk my life to save others..

I will sacrifice for my fellow comrades in arms.

But first....

First, you will blow me...

Posted by: Kapser Hauser at July 29, 2016 03:48 PM (HqpV0)

194 Thank you, Mandy. I should read up on that, I find it all fascinating. Then again, I'm Baptist. Our only sacrament is the pot luck dinner.

As you will probably agree, pacifism is a simplistic answer to a very complicated question.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at July 29, 2016 03:39 PM (Zu3d9)

The things is, I don't have a problem with viewing violence as the last option, rather than the first. Mind you, I also don't mind flying through the options very very very quickly indeed when faced with imminent violence oneself.

But violence has to be on the table because the other side sure as hell has it on the table.

This notion that oh I'm such a better person because I would never hurt anyone or lift a hand to hurt anyone to stop another from being hurt is moral narcissism par excellence.

Posted by: alexthechick -Darth Sugartits at July 29, 2016 03:48 PM (mf5HN)

195 the person elected pope was really an anti-pope and that the Chair and Office of Peter is empty
***
Well looking at the current pope I'd say they are on to something...

Posted by: 18-1 at July 29, 2016 03:48 PM (X7E8f)

196 This war must be fought. But fought to win. Wut's happening now is the politicians are running it. That's not right. If not fighting to win, and for the right cause then don't send people to war.

Reminded of Gibson in Gallipoli.

Posted by: Bobby Ahr at July 29, 2016 03:48 PM (zmZ2x)

197 192 " Two days ago he was up 1.1, then yesterday 0.9, and today it's a bloody tie."

Not worried. A very small Convention bump, or more likely, polls will get spiked in Hillary's favor.
Posted by: Ignoramus at July 29, 2016 03:47 PM (r1fLd)

The debates should be interesting. Unless Trump listens to his advisers, who are all in the Rove mold, he should wipe the floor with her easily.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at July 29, 2016 03:49 PM (9P3OG)

198 About the ex-fiance who said she wouldn't fight if her children were in danger?
How does she know that until it happens? Anybody can say anything when it comes to a hypothetical. Believe me instinct trumps hypotheticals every time.
No one "knows" how they would react to a dangerous situation until it happens.
People who can't swim jump into the water to save kids who aren't even their own.
Sometimes they even survive.

Posted by: Liam Neeson at July 29, 2016 03:50 PM (zXKVj)

199
--------------
The next day?
Heh. One last hurrah, huh?
Posted by: Chi at July 29, 2016 03:45 PM (9k6Db)

--------------

Heh. She did have some good qualities. Some very good qualities.

Posted by: Soona at July 29, 2016 03:50 PM (Fmupd)

200 "I really liked Pope Benedict."

Agreed.

JPII and Benedict. Two Pillars.

Hopefully, not the last two.

Posted by: simplemind at July 29, 2016 03:51 PM (C6xeQ)

201

OT - another type of "draft"

Venezuela has a new 'forced labor' law that can require people to work in fields

International human rights activists are complaining that new laws have introduced forced labour in Venezuela.

"A new decree establishing that any employee in Venezuela can be effectively made to work in the country's fields as a way to fight the current food crisis is unlawful and effectively amounts to forced labor," Amnesty International said in a statement released on Thursday.

President Nicolas Maduro signed a decree at the end of last week that gives powers to the labor ministry to order "all workers from the public and private sector with enough physical capabilities and technical know-how" to join a government drive aimed at increasing food production.

They can be required to work in the agricultural sector for a 60-day period that can be extended for another 60 days "if the circumstances require it."

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at July 29, 2016 03:51 PM (qCMvj)

202 And GOD DAMN IT, Hillary and Trump are now TIED in the RCP average. Two
days ago he was up 1.1, then yesterday 0.9, and today it's a bloody tie.

See, I TOLD you my speech would sew this up for Hillary!

You can thank me now!

Posted by: Bamlet the First, Mad King of Folksilvania at July 29, 2016 03:51 PM (nd1zx)

203 One of my uncles registered as a Conscientious Objector. He did grunt work in a Denver hospital (emptying bedpans and such) so that someone willing would be able to go. I have no patience for those who "had" to flee to Canada since there very much was a mechanism to avoid fighting. But it required "demeaning" *work* and I suspect that was much more the issue.

Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette at July 29, 2016 03:52 PM (FN+ue)

204 200 "I really liked Pope Benedict."

Agreed.

JPII and Benedict. Two Pillars.

Hopefully, not the last two.
Posted by: simplemind at July 29, 2016 03:51 PM (C6xeQ)

They won't be. One thing about the Church- it has survived far worse than this guy.

Posted by: Aetius451AD at July 29, 2016 03:52 PM (3ZoRf)

205 200 "I really liked Pope Benedict."

Agreed.

JPII and Benedict. Two Pillars.

Hopefully, not the last two.
Posted by: simplemind at July 29, 2016 03:51 PM (C6xeQ)

I was a fan of PB XVI too, and I'm not even Catholic. Now they have Pope Commiefag. Barf.

Posted by: Insomniac at July 29, 2016 03:52 PM (0mRoj)

206 This notion that oh I'm such a better person because I would never hurt anyone or lift a hand to hurt anyone to stop another from being hurt is moral narcissism par excellence.

Question I like to ask those people:
If you won't protect yourself, why do you think I should?

Posted by: rickb223 TEXIT at July 29, 2016 03:52 PM (Yu4ah)

207 all workers from the public and private sector with enough physical capabilities and technical know-how" to join a government drive aimed at increasing food production.

Sounds pretty much like Mao. Lots of bodies on the way!

Terrible.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at July 29, 2016 03:53 PM (HXQyP)

208 201 Posted by: artisanal 'ette at July 29, 2016 03:51 PM (qCMvj)

How do you say "Organization Todt" en Espanol?

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at July 29, 2016 03:53 PM (9P3OG)

209

ot again

Donald Trump posted a photo today from Hillary's DNC Convention speech last night - of Bill Clinton sleeping.

Donald captioned the photo:

Even Bill is tired of the lies, SAD! #trumppence2016

thegatewaypundit

funny stuff

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at July 29, 2016 03:53 PM (qCMvj)

210
Heh. She did have some good qualities. Some very good qualities.
Posted by: Soona
--------------
*fistbump*
BTDT.Got the t-shirt.
(Literally. I still have one crazy ex's Jaegermeister t-shirt that I wear on occassion)

Posted by: Chi at July 29, 2016 03:54 PM (9k6Db)

211 A new decree establishing that any employee in Venezuela can be effectively made to work in the country's fields as a way to fight the current food crisis is unlawful and effectively amounts to forced labor,"

You can work or you can not eat. Your call.

Posted by: rickb223 TEXIT at July 29, 2016 03:54 PM (Yu4ah)

212 Venezuela has a new 'forced labor' law that can require people to work in fields
___
In the USSR work is a duty and a matter of honor for every able-bodied
citizen, in accordance with the principle: "He who does not work,
neither shall he eat."

Posted by: Coming to a USSA near you... at July 29, 2016 03:54 PM (X7E8f)

213 205
I was a fan of PB XVI too, and I'm not even Catholic. Now they have Pope Commiefag. Barf.
Posted by: Insomniac at July 29, 2016 03:52 PM (0mRoj)

You'd think in a city filled with Italians this Pope could be made an offer he can't refuse.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at July 29, 2016 03:54 PM (9P3OG)

214 212 Venezuela has a new 'forced labor' law that can require people to work in fields
___
In the USSR work is a duty and a matter of honor for every able-bodied
citizen, in accordance with the principle: "He who does not work,
neither shall he eat."
Posted by: Coming to a USSA near you... at July 29, 2016 03:54 PM (X7E8f)

Wait, I thought it was "from each according to his ability to each according to his need."

What's all this "work" shit? This is socialism. I'm confused.

/s

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at July 29, 2016 03:55 PM (9P3OG)

215 Wars don't just happen. They aren't glorious. Pacifists are not cowards. Volunteers aren't courageous.

Wars are started by men that want to kill.

War is always ugly.

Pacifists are usually enslaved (either by their own government or by the conquerors of their government). They choose enslavement over killing. That might make them fools, but it doesn't make them cowards.

Volunteers might simply be vainglorious fools, thinking they, above all their peers, are marked for greatness in the coming conflict.

WWII was the result of decades of greed, spite and foolishness by the Allied and Axis powers. That it became a necessary evil does not make it at any point a good thing.

Posted by: spmat at July 29, 2016 03:55 PM (k8xmV)

216 Meh.

Posted by: chiefjaybob, who hates everyone at July 29, 2016 03:56 PM (G2Sc9)

217 They won't be. One thing about the Church- it has survived far worse than this guy.

***
Sure about that? There is a difference between someone who is personally corrupt and someone who wishes to turn the RCC into a tool for international progressivism.

Posted by: 18-1 at July 29, 2016 03:56 PM (X7E8f)

218 "A new decree establishing that any employee in Venezuela can be effectively made to work in the country's fields as a way to fight the current food crisis is unlawful and effectively amounts to forced labor," Amnesty International said in a statement released on Thursday.

President Nicolas Maduro signed a decree at the end of last week that gives powers to the labor ministry to order "all workers from the public and private sector with enough physical capabilities and technical know-how" to join a government drive aimed at increasing food production.

They can be required to work in the agricultural sector for a 60-day period that can be extended for another 60 days "if the circumstances require it."

----------------

Cambodia/Pol Pot - 1970's. It's where socialism/communism always leads.

Posted by: Soona at July 29, 2016 03:56 PM (Fmupd)

219
Two days ago he was up 1.1, then yesterday 0.9, and today it's a bloody tie."

1.1 is a statistical tie.

Posted by: Flawless Male Logic at July 29, 2016 03:56 PM (lKyWE)

220
I watched Lost Souls starring Winnona Ryder again. After the guy goes all satan like, she shoots him. Wouldnt satan have some magic powers against bullets? It seems that the opportune time to shoot him was before the clock went all 666 - not after. Just dont think bullets can kill the son of Satan.

Posted by: Bruce With a Wang! at July 29, 2016 03:56 PM (iQIUe)

221 I tried that pacifism deal for a little while. Didn't work well for me.

Posted by: John Wick at July 29, 2016 03:57 PM (BZey7)

222 OT - Looks like Trump has found out Clinton was asleep.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/759093740497764353

Posted by: William Eaton at July 29, 2016 03:57 PM (KhJh8)

223 Except the warrior still has his pride, honor, a sense of commitment to his brethren and the temerity to defend all that is right and good.

The "pacifist" has his glove white hands, a streak down his back and the ability to fight for every lowly piece of subterfuge his political masters encourage him to undertake.

His pride and usefulness to the existential goals of our society are also nowhere to be found.

Sorry I had to get that out.

Gibson certainly deserves another chance. I hope he stays sober and this movies doesn't want to make me call him a ponce.

Posted by: Marcus T at July 29, 2016 03:57 PM (lBMUe)

224 Wait, I thought it was "from each according to his ability to each according to his need."

What's all this "work" shit? This is socialism. I'm confused.

Da comrade! Work or we bill your family the cost of the boolit.

Posted by: rickb223 TEXIT at July 29, 2016 03:57 PM (Yu4ah)

225 215 WWII was the result of decades of greed, spite and foolishness by the Allied and Axis powers. That it became a necessary evil does not make it at any point a good thing.
Posted by: spmat at July 29, 2016 03:55 PM (k8xmV)

That you, Pat Buchanan?

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at July 29, 2016 03:57 PM (9P3OG)

226 I heard a rumor Benedict is writing a book, a memoir that deals with behind the scenes "events".

Posted by: simplemind at July 29, 2016 03:57 PM (C6xeQ)

227 Pacifists are fun.

You can mock them until they get so pissed off that they're no longer pacifists.

Posted by: Blanco Basura at July 29, 2016 03:57 PM (YEelc)

228 195 the person elected pope was really an anti-pope and that the Chair and Office of Peter is empty
***
Well looking at the current pope I'd say they are on to something...
Posted by: 18-1 at July 29, 2016 03:48 PM (X7E8f)

Pope-ing is hard. And really misunderstood, even among Catholics. Basically, we are supposed to listen to him when he's talking about actual Church Doctrine, and in areas of faith and morals. But outside of that, his opinion isn't really worth any more than the opinion of your neighbor. The problem is a very substantial part of the population (and that includes Catholics) think that Catholics are supposed to treat every single one of his thoughts as if it's Gospel, which is technically a heresy (ultra-montanism).

Like someone else said above, I really liked Pope Benedict. He was smart as a whip and always very measured and considered in what he said publicly. So even when I didn't necessarily agree with him in areas where he was offering a pure opinion (political ones, for example), I always at least gave what he said some thought because I knew he had bothered to think about the issue before he spoke on it. Our current Papa.....not so much.

Posted by: Mandy P. (Not Patinkin), lurking lurker who lurks at July 29, 2016 03:57 PM (KkVB6)

229
Wars don't just happen. They aren't glorious. Pacifists are not cowards. Volunteers aren't courageous.

***
Wars are started by men that want to kill.

I like Clausewitz's construction better - wars are politics by other means. And their justice, or injustice, is primarily determined by what political goal they are fought for.

Posted by: 18-1 at July 29, 2016 03:58 PM (X7E8f)

230

TGIF!

It's Friday, so

Bikini-clad Swedish police officer nabs pickpocket while sunbathing -- 'I would have stepped in no matter my outfit'

http://nydn.us/2anPDzS

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at July 29, 2016 03:58 PM (qCMvj)

231
Two days ago he was up 1.1, then yesterday 0.9, and today it's a bloody tie."

1.1 is a statistical tie.
Posted by: Flawless Male Logic at July 29, 2016 03:56 PM (lKyWE)
-----------------------

Oh, *you* don't understand. (throws doll on floor)

Posted by: iforgot says God bless Snorky at July 29, 2016 03:58 PM (pC96u)

232 CO's who accept the consequences or accept non combat support deserve some consideration over those who are just using CO as an excuse for their cowardice or flee the country. It's still wrong headed in the long run but at least they appear to have true convictions. That's why I'm conflicted on Ali. He could have renounced his citizenship and moved to Europe as a hero. He had the means.

Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck at July 29, 2016 03:58 PM (l2MEF)

233 226 Posted by: simplemind at July 29, 2016 03:57 PM (C6xeQ)

He'll be having a long lie-down in Ft. Marcy Park.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at July 29, 2016 03:58 PM (9P3OG)

234 Posted by: spmat at July 29, 2016 03:55 PM (k8xmV)

This is a mass of bullshit, and a pretty crappy example of trolling.

Try again please, but this time con brio!

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at July 29, 2016 03:58 PM (Zu3d9)

235 Posted by: spmat at July 29, 2016 03:55 PM (k8xmV)

----------

You're a Berniebots-turned-Hillary voter, aren't you? How much is the DNC paying trolls now?

Posted by: Soona at July 29, 2016 03:59 PM (Fmupd)

236 I like Clausewitz's construction better - wars are politics by other means.

I always thought he had that backwards. Politics is war by other means. If I'm strong enough, I just take what you have. If I'm not, I must be politic.

Posted by: Grump928(c) says Free Soothie! at July 29, 2016 04:00 PM (evdj2)

237 Bikini-clad Swedish police officer nabs pickpocket while sunbathing -- 'I would have stepped in no matter my outfit'

http://nydn.us/2anPDzS

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at July 29, 2016 03:58 PM (qCMvj)

I posted that at #157. No one said boo about it.
It's like I don't know you people anymore.

Posted by: Tami at July 29, 2016 04:01 PM (Enq6K)

238 Wait, I thought it was "from each according to his ability to each according to his need."

Right? It's the American way!

Posted by: Insomniac at July 29, 2016 04:01 PM (0mRoj)

239 Sure about that? There is a difference between someone who is personally corrupt and someone who wishes to turn the RCC into a tool for international progressivism.

Posted by: 18-1 at July 29, 2016 03:56 PM (X7E8f)

It is something I bounce back and forth on, personally. On the one hand, I distrust any organization made up of people. On the other, it's the Church. One that I believe was started by someone specifically touched by God as His chosen instrument.

Sometimes Faith is all you have. and determination.

Posted by: Aetius451AD at July 29, 2016 04:01 PM (3ZoRf)

240 "I really liked Pope Benedict. He was smart as a whip and always very measured and considered in what he said publicly. So even when I didn't necessarily agree with him in areas where he was offering a pure opinion (political ones, for example), I always at least gave what he said some thought because I knew he had bothered to think about the issue before he spoke on it."

Seconded. Plus, we had two awesome Popes in a row. I think people got spoiled because they expect them all to be that great.

Only a few are called "the Great" for a reason.

Posted by: simplemind at July 29, 2016 04:01 PM (C6xeQ)

241 I just find it distasteful to praise pacifism while boys are necessarily, unavoidably being asked to fight a war which must be fought.
............
Well, the big difference between then and now, Ace, is that we now have an all-volunteer army.

You can't really say that any longer.

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at July 29, 2016 04:02 PM (so+oy)

242
all workers from the public and private sector with enough physical capabilities and technical know-how" to join a government drive aimed at increasing food production.

Sounds pretty much like Mao. Lots of bodies on the way!

Terrible.
Posted by: FenelonSpoke at July 29, 2016 03:53 PM (HXQyP)
---------------------

Absolutely unbelievable.

Stalin takes over food production early 1930s --> mass starvation

Mao takes over food production 1950s --> mass starvation

Venezuela takes over food production 2010s --> different results, sure.

Posted by: iforgot says God bless Snorky at July 29, 2016 04:03 PM (pC96u)

243 I posted that at #157. No one said boo about it.
It's like I don't know you people anymore.
Posted by: Tami at July 29, 2016 04:01 PM (Enq6K)

oh, sorry!
I was off browsing around and reading things, as always.

Twice the effort then!

It's all good. And time for a drink of some sort.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at July 29, 2016 04:03 PM (qCMvj)

244 Sometimes Faith is all you have. and determination.

And the Word : " . . . the gates of Hell itself will not prevail against it."

It will be with us to the end. Now, the end may be a lot closer than we think.

Posted by: simplemind at July 29, 2016 04:03 PM (C6xeQ)

245 Only a few are called "the Great" for a reason.
Posted by: simplemind at July 29, 2016 04:01 PM (C6xeQ)

Yeah, I know what you mean.

Posted by: Barack Obama at July 29, 2016 04:03 PM (KUaJL)

246 Posted by: spmat at July 29, 2016 03:55 PM (k8xmV)

The outcome of defeating evil is always good. And you may want to Un Zinn yourself when it comes to cause and effect.

Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck at July 29, 2016 04:03 PM (l2MEF)

247 >>>220 I watched Lost Souls starring Winnona Ryder again.
Posted by: Bruce With a Wang! at July 29, 2016 03:56 PM (iQIUe)

This is a smart military blog with health tips, movie reviews, guns, chess, art, and Winona Ryder discussion.

Now please go into greater detail about Winona.
PS Winona = win. It's the start of her name. She beats the devil. Always. It's Just. The Way. It Is.

Posted by: Banana Splits Guy at July 29, 2016 04:03 PM (ImTQ/)

248 But outside of that, his opinion isn't really worth any more than the opinion of your neighbor
***
The RCC is a large and powerful temporal organization. Of course the head of it will be accorded significant deference. I don't want to get into a theological debate...but if you are going to have a someone in a position like the Pope, he can't just expect that people will separate his temporal and theological statements and acts...especially when at times you can't really separate the two realms fully.

/I wonder what the Christian world would look like if even one of the other four centers of Christianity (Constantinople, Jerusalem, Alexandria, Antioch) had survived the Islamic onslaught as independent realms into the modern era.

Posted by: 18-1 at July 29, 2016 04:04 PM (X7E8f)

249 Tami, I think the reason no one said boo is because the 45 minute naps after the 10 second "exercise" kicked in.

Absolutely unbelievable.

Stalin takes over food production early 1930s --> mass starvation

Mao takes over food production 1950s --> mass starvation

Venezuela takes over food production 2010s --> different results, sure.
Posted by: iforgot says God bless Snorky at July 29, 2016 04:03 PM (pC96u)

At least in Cambodia didn't they just go all yeah we're taking you out into the rice paddies to kill you. So that's nice.

Posted by: alexthechick -Darth Sugartits at July 29, 2016 04:04 PM (mf5HN)

250 Pope-ing is hard. And really misunderstood, even among Catholics. Basically, we are supposed to listen to him when he's talking about actual Church Doctrine, and in areas of faith and morals. But outside of that, his opinion isn't really worth any more than the opinion of your neighbor. The problem is a very substantial part of the population (and that includes Catholics) think that Catholics are supposed to treat every single one of his thoughts as if it's Gospel, which is technically a heresy (ultra-montanism).

Like someone else said above, I really liked Pope Benedict. He was smart as a whip and always very measured and considered in what he said publicly. So even when I didn't necessarily agree with him in areas where he was offering a pure opinion (political ones, for example), I always at least gave what he said some thought because I knew he had bothered to think about the issue before he spoke on it. Our current Papa.....not so much.
Posted by: Mandy P. (Not Patinkin), lurking lurker who lurks at July 29, 2016 03:57 PM (KkVB6)

Well said. Something I struggle with too.

Posted by: Aetius451AD at July 29, 2016 04:04 PM (3ZoRf)

251
Weren't the democrats, just last night, saying you have to stand up to bullies? Doesn't that lead to violence? And isn't violence a bad thing? And doesn't love conqueor all?

So if someone is bullying you , you should love them long time so they will be happy? But isn't that rape culture?

Did I lose something in translation?

Posted by: Filgert Golightly at July 29, 2016 04:04 PM (3DO6e)

252

David Burge @iowahawkblog about the Venezuela labor

Where everything is free, including slave labor

Feel the Bern!

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at July 29, 2016 04:05 PM (qCMvj)

253 Hey spmat

Volunteers are courageous . Kiss my ass

Posted by: ThunderB at July 29, 2016 04:05 PM (YxH2u)

254 Well, the big difference between then and now, Ace, is that we now have an all-volunteer army.

Until we get into a meat grinder. We've managed to avoid one for quite a while but they're the norm rather than the exception.

Posted by: Grump928(c) says Free Soothie! at July 29, 2016 04:05 PM (evdj2)

255 Meanwhile, Obama is naming a US Navy ship after pedophile and child sex predator Harvey Milk:

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/ gay-rights-icon-harvey-milk-navy-vessel-named-article-1.2730958

Left out of the rationale for naming a ship after him is the fact that he was well-known for (and often bragged of) luring early teenage runaway boys into his camera shop so he could sexually molest them.

Ah, but he's a "hero," you see, so we forgive that.

Posted by: zombie at July 29, 2016 04:05 PM (jBuUi)

256 Winona = win. It's the start of her name.
--------------------

The rest of it is "ona," as in "onanism." Over to you, Banana Splits Guy.

Posted by: iforgot says God bless Snorky at July 29, 2016 04:06 PM (pC96u)

257 Like someone else said above, I really liked Pope Benedict. He was smart as a whip and always very measured and considered in what he said publicly.
Posted by: Mandy P. (Not Patinkin), lurking lurker who lurks at July 29, 2016 03:57 PM (KkVB6)

Well said. Something I struggle with too.
Posted by: Aetius451AD at July 29, 2016 04:04 PM (3ZoRf)

You're both filthy papists!? I keed, I keed.

Posted by: Insomniac at July 29, 2016 04:06 PM (0mRoj)

258 I posted that at #157. No one said boo about it.
It's like I don't know you people anymore.

Posted by: Tami

Well, I'm here now

BOO

If that cop were around I'd be looking to get tackled by her.

Posted by: Bruce at July 29, 2016 04:06 PM (8ikIW)

259 Want to be a pacifist? That's fine. We've always had them. Quakers didn't want to fight and if you know anything about the Constitution pacifists were considered even when drafting the Bill of Rights and Second Amendment.

But don't give me this fictional bullshit they are somehow more virtuous, strong and more intelligent then A man who stands up to defend the freedom of ta guy who wouldn't exist if it wasn't for him.

Posted by: Marcus T at July 29, 2016 04:06 PM (lBMUe)

260
What's up with some guys and exhaust pipes?

https://goo.gl/N2NSG7

Posted by: Bruce With a Wang! at July 29, 2016 04:06 PM (iQIUe)

261 If I'm strong enough, I just take what you have. If I'm not, I must be politic.
___
That is what the world was like before Christianity...now hey lets get of those h8ters and their h8teful rules!

Posted by: Some Liberal at July 29, 2016 04:06 PM (X7E8f)

262 Posted by: iforgot says God bless Snorky at July 29, 2016 04:06 PM (pC96u)

Well done and clever.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at July 29, 2016 04:07 PM (HXQyP)

263

I'm so glad Trump won the Viewer War last night.

That's one good thing.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at July 29, 2016 04:07 PM (qCMvj)

264 i had a cow-orker who was an ardent pacifist... she even said she wouldn't raise a hand to save her son, just put herself in front of the attacker to die first.

she also believed no one but the government should have guns (yes, she was Jewish)...

then one day, out of the blue when we had stopped w*rking together several years before, she called me out of the blue:

seems the young lady who lived in the same unit in the identical building next door had broken up with her boyfriend, who was getting drunk most evenings, then beating on her door, not the GF's, demanding they get back together, which scared her, and could i come over and stay a few nights, because she was afraid. (no, she was the antithesis of hawt)

i told her that, as a pacifist, she would have to rely on 911, because i wasn't willing to put my freedom at risk, lying in wait in her apartment...

we kinda lost touch after that.

Posted by: redc1c4 at July 29, 2016 04:07 PM (i6Yqt)

265 I used to process CO requests. Never saw a one that just didn't want out. Usually after we paid for their medical school

Posted by: ThunderB at July 29, 2016 04:07 PM (YxH2u)

266 Tami, I think the reason no one said boo is because the 45 minute naps after the 10 second "exercise" kicked in.

10 seconds? You're in a generous mood, huh?

Posted by: Tami at July 29, 2016 04:08 PM (Enq6K)

267 I posted that at #157. No one said boo about it.
It's like I don't know you people anymore.

Posted by: Tami at July 29, 2016 04:01 PM (Enq6K)

It's been on Drudge for four hours, so it was not exactly new.

Posted by: Nip Sip at July 29, 2016 04:08 PM (F1iXz)

268 Studios became extremely wary of Winona after she displayed her thieving tendencies. They became so concerned that every contract got standardized language added that required her to compensate them for anything that disappeared off the set when she was there. They call this the Winona rider.

Posted by: Insomniac at July 29, 2016 04:08 PM (0mRoj)

269 Sometimes Faith is all you have. and determination.

And the Word

And this remote. And this lamp. Faith, determination, the Word, that remote and this lamp. That's all I need.

Posted by: alexthechick -Darth Sugartits at July 29, 2016 04:08 PM (mf5HN)

270 You're both filthy papists!? I keed, I keed.
Posted by: Insomniac at July 29, 2016 04:06 PM (0mRoj)

Lol. I never minded the "Papist" label- as far as insults go, not too bad. Another one was "Fish Nibbler"- which evidently means something else these days according to urban dictionary.

Posted by: Aetius451AD at July 29, 2016 04:09 PM (3ZoRf)

271 From the Milk/Navy article:

"Navy Times reported that California Rep. Bob Filner was also instrumental in pushing Navy officials to name a ship after Milk."

Ahh, Bob Filner, remember him? The Democratic hack who raped, groped, molested and sexually bullied all the underlings in his office?

Yeah. so based on Bob Filner's recommendation, we're naming a Navy ship after a sexual predator.

This is life in Obama's America. Hope you enjoy it, because if Hillary wins, expect 8 more years of the same if not worse.

Posted by: zombie at July 29, 2016 04:09 PM (jBuUi)

272 she also believed no one but the government should have guns (yes, she was Jewish)...

Wow. Just wow.

Posted by: Insomniac at July 29, 2016 04:09 PM (0mRoj)

273 238 Wait, I thought it was "from each according to his ability to each according to his need."

Right? It's the American way!
Posted by: Insomniac at July 29, 2016 04:01 PM (0mRoj)

I about lost it this morning, when I got a text from my best friend. I've known her longer than my husband, and we have prayed each other through her debilitating auto-immune disease, and my cancer and kids' serious illnesses.

And God help me, that idiot was impressed by Hillary, thought she spoke beautifully, was going to give us free college education, and go women!!!!

I have no idea what has happened to this woman, who was a staunch conservative up until this moment. Perhaps the years of teaching in (albeit a conservative) public school have gotten to her. Perhaps she has joined the free shit army-her husband left her many years ago, and thought I love her dearly, I understand why-she can be demanding and petulant. So as she has no one to live out her old age with, she is relying on the state to supply that financial need.

I don't know. But I'm so upset, I don't know what to do. My husband deleted the text before I fired off a response. He's a wise man, and I am very lucky to have him. But I would have felt better sending one WTF

Posted by: Moki at July 29, 2016 04:10 PM (ezHMO)

274 270 You're both filthy papists!? I keed, I keed.
Posted by: Insomniac at July 29, 2016 04:06 PM (0mRoj)

Lol. I never minded the "Papist" label- as far as insults go, not too bad. Another one was "Fish Nibbler"- which evidently means something else these days according to urban dictionary.
Posted by: Aetius451AD at July 29, 2016 04:09 PM (3ZoRf)

I am NOT looking that one up.

Posted by: Insomniac at July 29, 2016 04:10 PM (0mRoj)

275 "Studios became extremely wary of Winona after she displayed her thieving tendencies. They became so concerned that every contract got standardized language added that required her to compensate them for anything that disappeared off the set when she was there. They call this the Winona rider."

It also was like telling every grip, gaffer and craft services person that the entire set was free for the taking since it would all be blamed on Winona. Unintended consequences, how do they work?

Posted by: simplemind at July 29, 2016 04:10 PM (C6xeQ)

276 Lol. I never minded the "Papist" label- as far as insults go, not too bad. Another one was "Fish Nibbler"- which evidently means something else these days according to urban dictionary.
Posted by: Aetius451AD at July 29, 2016 04:09 PM (3ZoRf)

Although, strictly speaking, for me true.

Posted by: Aetius451AD at July 29, 2016 04:10 PM (3ZoRf)

277 Posted by: redc1c4 at July 29, 2016 04:07 PM (i6Yqt)
I've never been in a fight in my life, except for fighting with my brother. If there is a stranger on this ranch I come flying at them. Can I help you? The last guy I caught was afraid I was going to shoot him.
Dying first does not save your child. I would kill to save my family.

Posted by: CaliGirl at July 29, 2016 04:11 PM (eU/yZ)

278 Fish Nibblers? I always heard the slur as 'Mackerel Snappers'.

Posted by: Grump928(c) says Free Soothie! at July 29, 2016 04:11 PM (evdj2)

279 Until we get into a meat grinder. We've managed to avoid one for quite a while but they're the norm rather than the exception.
Posted by: Grump928(c) s
..................
I don't see that ever happening again.

It's a chicken and egg thing.. You don't start that kind of war without the meat already in place. And no one is gonna go for a draft in peacetime.

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at July 29, 2016 04:11 PM (so+oy)

280 I don't know. But I'm so upset, I don't know what to do. My husband deleted the text before I fired off a response. He's a wise man, and I am very lucky to have him. But I would have felt better sending one WTF
Posted by: Moki at July 29, 2016 04:10 PM (ezHMO)

Sorry to hear it. This election seems to be the most interpersonally divisive I've ever seen.

Posted by: Insomniac at July 29, 2016 04:11 PM (0mRoj)

281
10 seconds? You're in a generous mood, huh?

Posted by: Tami at July 29, 2016 04:08 PM (Enq6K)

I am most benevolentish.

Moki, remember the important thing about your friend is all the stuff you mentioned before the political stuff. Just remember that stuff when you want to wring her wee neck.

Posted by: alexthechick -Darth Sugartits at July 29, 2016 04:12 PM (mf5HN)

282 Mackerel snapper

Bead fumbler

Posted by: simplemind at July 29, 2016 04:12 PM (JTwsP)

283 278 Fish Nibblers? I always heard the slur as 'Mackerel Snappers'.
Posted by: Grump928(c) says Free Soothie! at July 29, 2016 04:11 PM (evdj2)

That one too. There are variations.

Posted by: Aetius451AD at July 29, 2016 04:12 PM (3ZoRf)

284 Did I read tha same book? The one I read was about professional army officers and was in no way agitprop or anti war. It was about courage and fear and honor. It was about barbaric jihadis.

Posted by: JeffM at July 29, 2016 04:12 PM (AeT8V)

285 It also was like telling every grip, gaffer and craft services person that the entire set was free for the taking since it would all be blamed on Winona. Unintended consequences, how do they work?
Posted by: simplemind at July 29, 2016 04:10 PM (C6xeQ)

'Twas a joke.

Posted by: Insomniac at July 29, 2016 04:13 PM (0mRoj)

286 Grump -

Yep.....attritional warfare is the norm.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battles_of_Rzhev

15 months.....soviet dead and wounded over one million; axis losses about the same.

And that was just one place on the Russian front......

Posted by: Your Decidedly Devious Uncle Palpatine, Still Accepting Harem Applicants at July 29, 2016 04:13 PM (b8WNi)

287 Posted by: Moki at July 29, 2016 04:10 PM (ezHMO)
The free shit army is made up of single women. They don't have a husband to take care of them. Big government daddy.

Posted by: CaliGirl at July 29, 2016 04:13 PM (eU/yZ)

288 i told her that, as a pacifist, she would have to rely on 911, because i wasn't willing to put my freedom at risk, lying in wait in her apartment...

we kinda lost touch after that.
Posted by: redc1c4 at July 29, 2016 04:07 PM (i6Yqt)

she probably still didn't get it

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at July 29, 2016 04:13 PM (qCMvj)

289 282 Mackerel snapper

Bead fumbler

Posted by: simplemind at July 29, 2016 04:12 PM (JTwsP)

Does your Mom love to buy you rosaries? My Mom must think my soul is in peril because she has bought me about 20 of them. I only ever use one, but I have extras coming out the wazoo.

Posted by: Aetius451AD at July 29, 2016 04:13 PM (3ZoRf)

290 IT'S FUNNY BECAUSE HER NAME IS RIDER

Posted by: BEN ROETHLISBERGER at July 29, 2016 04:13 PM (evdj2)

291 >>>Sometimes Faith is all you have. and determination.

And the Word<<<

My favorite word is the Word.

**goes off to speak at PlannedParenthood event**

Posted by: Nanny Pelousy at July 29, 2016 04:13 PM (H9MG5)

292 287 Posted by: Moki at July 29, 2016 04:10 PM (ezHMO)
The free shit army is made up of single women. They don't have a husband to take care of them. Big government daddy.
Posted by: CaliGirl at July 29, 2016 04:13 PM (eU/yZ)

Hold up. I thought strong, independent woman don't need man.

Posted by: Insomniac at July 29, 2016 04:14 PM (0mRoj)

293 If what impresses you to vote for someone is a speech, you don't belong voting in the first place.

In fact If you don't realize that over the last eight years we've been divided against each other, destroyed economically and our families are in more danger than ever' it's probably best you don't.

Posted by: Marcus T at July 29, 2016 04:14 PM (lBMUe)

294 Nood

Posted by: rickb223 TEXIT at July 29, 2016 04:15 PM (Yu4ah)

295 290 IT'S FUNNY BECAUSE HER NAME IS RIDER
Posted by: BEN ROETHLISBERGER at July 29, 2016 04:13 PM (evdj2)

Thank you for clearing that up, as always.

Posted by: Insomniac at July 29, 2016 04:15 PM (0mRoj)

296 Sorry to hear it. This election seems to be the most interpersonally divisive I've ever seen.
***
Because the left thinks we are finally near utopia. After 8 years of Obama, 8 years of Clinton would give us that brave new world they've hungered for. And so they will lie, cheat, and steal to get it. And they know that the status quo is not sustainable, so if someone does block them their vision might never come to be...especially as the LIVs start to notice that Utopia is rather less then it was cracked up to be...

Posted by: 18-1 at July 29, 2016 04:15 PM (X7E8f)

297 IT'S FUNNY BECAUSE HER NAME IS RIDER

Posted by: Amy Shumer at July 29, 2016 04:15 PM (X7E8f)

298 Look, I understand the whole problem of not wanting to kill people. Jesus is there for peace, right?

Truth is, there's a time and a place. The same Jesus that commands us to sometimes be slain for His sake also sometimes commands us to take up the sword. Joshua, Gideon among others were all warriors for God, and I'm sure they killed lots of people.

I suspect the time is coming very very soon when the Church Militant will need to come back. Unfortunately, who is left among Christendom that could rise up and fight for the Lord?

Posted by: Vanceone at July 29, 2016 04:16 PM (IQzhs)

299 Posted by: Insomniac at July 29, 2016 04:14 PM (0mRoj)
All they need is free stuff from other people. They can have it all, baby.

Posted by: CaliGirl at July 29, 2016 04:16 PM (eU/yZ)

300 I don't know. But I'm so upset, I don't know what to do. My husband deleted the text before I fired off a response. He's a wise man, and I am very lucky to have him. But I would have felt better sending one WTF
Posted by: Moki at July 29, 2016 04:10 PM (ezHMO)

he deleted it, and she may have been waiting on a reply

do it in person

texting is not real

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at July 29, 2016 04:16 PM (qCMvj)

301 Posted by: Soona at July 29, 2016 03:56 PM (Fmupd)

And when that doesn't work the mass executions begin. Only a matter of when.

Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette at July 29, 2016 04:16 PM (FN+ue)

302 I don't know. But I'm so upset, I don't know what to do. My husband deleted the text before I fired off a response. He's a wise man, and I am very lucky to have him. But I would have felt better sending one WTF
Posted by: Moki at July 29, 2016 04:10 PM (ezHMO)

he deleted it, and she may have been waiting on a reply

do it in person

texting is not real
Posted by: artisanal 'ette at July 29, 2016 04:16 PM (qCMvj)

and it will go down differently I suspect

texting is not real

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at July 29, 2016 04:17 PM (qCMvj)

303 >>>256 Winona = win. It's the start of her name.
--------------------

The rest of it is "ona," as in "onanism." Over to you, Banana Splits Guy.
Posted by: iforgot says God bless Snorky at July 29, 2016 04:06 PM (pC96u)

No, no, no. This is a Romance language because we are talking Winona. Ona is an augmentation suffix. Winona is a large win, like the Powerball, which I will get on Saturday. Then I will run off with Winona in a van (Ryder, natch).

Posted by: Banana Splits Guy at July 29, 2016 04:17 PM (ImTQ/)

304 Mel Gibson given a "second chance"?

I've seen that guy die more times than the dude in Highlander.

Posted by: Marcus T at July 29, 2016 04:17 PM (lBMUe)

305 Posted by: Moki at July 29, 2016 04:10 PM (ezHMO)

I would consider just taking a lot of deep breaths giving it some time. You've been through a lot together and supported each other. It's hard to know exactly why people come to the conclusions they do and it's sometimes infuriating when we happen to have more political information than our friends do. Maybe you could consider gathering together some information on Hillary that you could send to her later on.

Speaking from personal experience, fired off text and e-mails in the heat of anger usually works out badly. It sounds like it was good for your husband to delete it.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at July 29, 2016 04:17 PM (HXQyP)

306 299 Posted by: Insomniac at July 29, 2016 04:14 PM (0mRoj)
All they need is free stuff from other people. They can have it all, baby.
Posted by: CaliGirl at July 29, 2016 04:16 PM (eU/yZ)

Kinda defeats the whole "strong and independent" thing, but what you say is the stark truth.

Posted by: Insomniac at July 29, 2016 04:17 PM (0mRoj)

307 300-ish posts in and not one mention of Vince Vaughn (conservative) also featured in the movie?

Or even Agent Smith/Elrond?

Posted by: a little surprised at July 29, 2016 04:17 PM (H9MG5)

308 Posted by: 18-1 at July 29, 2016 04:04 PM (X7E8f)

Yes it definitely gets confusing. But that is actually the doctrine of the Church. Not to debate theologically, just to explain from the Catholic viewpoint, it actually is even a little more technical than that. His words aren't doctrine unless he's speaking Ex Cathedra, which has only happened something like 3-4 times in the modern era. Catholics are supposed to give serious weight to what the Pope says in the realm of faith or morals, but unless he's actively and intentionally invoking his position as the Successor of Peter, then it's a Catholic's assent to it is not absolute. So, in essence, just about everything the Pope says probably falls into pure opinion.

Now the Church as an organization may follow along with that opinion and adopt it as the "official" stance. But it's really not. A good example of this is the official current stance on the death penalty. The past several popes have heavily frowned upon it, and JPII especially developed a pretty extensive theology/philosophy as to why we should oppose it. But *technically* opposition to the death penalty is NOT Catholic doctrine and we aren't bound to assent to it. Catholics are supposed to give that position very thorough consideration, but we may validly come to a different conclusion. And, again technically, the Church probably cannot really declare officially against the death penalty because IS doctrine that putting a person to death is within the realm of the temporal authority of the state and, so long as it is justly exercised, it is permissible.

Yeah, 2000 years of churching and things can get pretty complicated.

Posted by: Mandy P. (Not Patinkin), lurking lurker who lurks at July 29, 2016 04:17 PM (KkVB6)

309 OT: Not sure if I mentioned this here before.. but I binge watched NetFlix's "Stranger Things" this week instead of watching the DNC.

It's a really great show.. feels like an 80's movie.. only 8 episodes.. watch it!

And we saw Start-Trek Beyond last weekend.. I think it's the best one yet!

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at July 29, 2016 04:18 PM (so+oy)

310 Star-Trek..

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at July 29, 2016 04:18 PM (so+oy)

311 @271 Yeah. so based on Bob Filner's recommendation, we're naming a Navy ship after a sexual predator.

-----------------

Haven't the really bad sexual predation problems (i.e. things like Tailhook) largely been limited to the Navy? So it doesn't seem *entirely* out of place...

An another note, how'd you like it if you joined the Navy, got through basic, and then were informed that your first deployment would be on board the USS Harvey Milk?

Posted by: junior at July 29, 2016 04:18 PM (vgXTT)

312 Because the left thinks we are finally near utopia. After 8 years of Obama, 8 years of Clinton would give us that brave new world they've hungered for. And so they will lie, cheat, and steal to get it. And they know that the status quo is not sustainable, so if someone does block them their vision might never come to be...especially as the LIVs start to notice that Utopia is rather less then it was cracked up to be...
Posted by: 18-1 at July 29, 2016 04:15 PM (X7E8f)

Where are all of those "progressive" modern artist photographers photographing the bad America?

Surely around every corner in San Francisco is a picture of a homeless person.

The poor.

The hungry.

Those struggling?

Where are all of Pelosi's artists? Doing their dark and compassionate work? Recording the truth.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at July 29, 2016 04:18 PM (qCMvj)

313 286 Grump -

Yep.....attritional warfare is the norm.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battles_of_Rzhev

15 months.....soviet dead and wounded over one million; axis losses about the same.

And that was just one place on the Russian front......
Posted by: Your Decidedly Devious Uncle Palpatine, Still Accepting Harem Applicants at July 29, 2016 04:13 PM (b8WNi)

-----------------

WWII was a war of annihilation for everyone involved. It's exactly the kind of war islam has declared on us.

And this is why national pacifism should not be glorified in any way. It's a war that will eventually have to be fought by the west sooner rather than later. And it will be ugly.

Posted by: Soona at July 29, 2016 04:21 PM (Fmupd)

314 simplemind at July 29, 2016 04:12 PM (JTwsP)

Does your Mom love to buy you rosaries? My Mom must think my soul is in peril because she has bought me about 20 of them. I only ever use one, but I have extras coming out the wazoo.

Posted by: Aetius451AD

Ha. No. I use a kindle app for the Rosary so no beads involved. Rosary Audio, but I turn the sound down to mute. I'm too weak of character to pull the beads out and get stared at. (Sigh) The kindle lets me pray a lot in very public places.

Other good apps: Laudate, Divine Office, and "The Truth and Life" app which is a bible with professional actors voicing the New Testament. Its very well done. Also has great footnotes, bible scholarship and explanations cross references to old testament passages and relationships. Its well done and easy to use.

Posted by: simplemind at July 29, 2016 04:27 PM (C6xeQ)

315 Ha. No. I use a kindle app for the Rosary so no beads involved. Rosary Audio, but I turn the sound down to mute. I'm too weak of character to pull the beads out and get stared at. (Sigh) The kindle lets me pray a lot in very public places.

Other good apps: Laudate, Divine Office, and "The Truth and Life" app which is a bible with professional actors voicing the New Testament. Its very well done. Also has great footnotes, bible scholarship and explanations cross references to old testament passages and relationships. Its well done and easy to use.

Posted by: simplemind at July 29, 2016 04:27 PM (C6xeQ)

Wow. It is sad, but I never thought of checking for apps. Thank you very much.

Posted by: Aetius451AD at July 29, 2016 04:28 PM (3ZoRf)

316 I can respect men like Doss who object to the killing, but are still willing to serve something greater than themselves and put themselves at risk. What I have no use for are people like whatever yellow creatures filled the DNC hall last night and chanted "No More War" for no reason other than their pathetic vanity. They are parasites, nothing more; men and women who look down on courage and valor because they have never shown a shred of it.

Posted by: UGAdawg at July 29, 2016 04:30 PM (HL3BI)

317 I do the "Divine Mercy Chaplet". I don't do it in public places except sometimes I do if I'm a car passenger or sometimes waiting for a meal. I like the feel of the wooden beads; I find using them calming.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at July 29, 2016 04:31 PM (HXQyP)

318 I suspect the time is coming very very soon when the Church Militant will need to come back. Unfortunately, who is left among Christendom that could rise up and fight for the Lord?

Posted by: Vanceone

Personal Recollections of St Joan of Arc Mark Twain.

Well, when the men won't man up, God sends a maiden . . .

Posted by: simplemind at July 29, 2016 04:31 PM (C6xeQ)

319 And this is why I love the Horde.

Thank you. Thank you for reminding me to be better than my instinct would dictate. Thank you for encouraging me to be better than our opponents treat us.

And thank you all who prayed for me this week-VBS was outstanding, we had a great turnout, and great kids. A huge blessing all around!

You guys are awesome.

Posted by: Moki at July 29, 2016 04:32 PM (ezHMO)

320 I do the "Divine Mercy Chaplet". I don't do it in public places except sometimes I do if I'm a car passenger or sometimes waiting for a meal. I like the feel of the wooden beads; I find using them calming.

Oh hey Fen --- the Rosary Audio App has a divine mercy chaplet function. 99 cents last I looked. Then you have it on your kindle or phone and can do it anywhere - discretely.

Posted by: simplemind at July 29, 2016 04:33 PM (C6xeQ)

321 Well, thanks. :^) I could do it on my phone but I have a dinosaur of a phone and i don't think I can do apps and i don't have a kindle. But if i ever get up to speech on technology I will.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at July 29, 2016 04:34 PM (HXQyP)

322 Favorite Gibson movie for me, by far, is The Year of Living Dangerously.

Posted by: Frank Waturi - Advertising Dept: American Panoscope at July 29, 2016 04:35 PM (jjNBN)

323 Wow. It is sad, but I never thought of checking for apps. Thank you very much.

You are COMPLETELY welcome.

In truth, the saddest thing is it was purely happenstance that I started saying the rosary every day. Yep.

My wife got me a kindle a couple of years back. Every year I try to do something new and hadn't made a "new years' resolution". So I started playing with the kindle on like January 2 and checked the app store. Happened upon some catholic apps - thought hey why not start praying. Saw the rosary app and loaded it.

Changed my life. Much longer story involved. But within a few weeks I joined the Rosary Confraternity and was doing many "new things" of the same sort. Did an enormous amount of reading - lives of the saints, Chesterton, you get the picture. . . I do recommend the Dolores passion of our lord Jesus Christ. Kindle book. The religious books on kindle used to be amazingly cheap and many about the saints are FREE.

Posted by: simplemind at July 29, 2016 04:39 PM (C6xeQ)

324 sock off

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at July 29, 2016 04:41 PM (mpXpK)

325 Absolutist Pacifism is a vicious anti-human scam.

An individual spiritual pursuit of Peacefulness is another thing entirely.

Posted by: Pastorius at July 29, 2016 04:43 PM (lHAc1)

326 And this remote. And this lamp. Faith, determination, the Word, that remote and this lamp. That's all I need.

Posted by: alexthechick -Darth Sugartits at July 29, 2016 04:08 PM

Just don't put the lamp under a bushel.

Posted by: RedMindBlueState at July 29, 2016 04:44 PM (bzd8I)

327 "31. I never gave up on Gibson."

Neither did, to this day and of all people, Jodie Foster and Robert Downey, Jr. And those are stories I would LOVE to hear.

Posted by: furious at July 29, 2016 04:56 PM (gB9nl)

328 #9

I thought the guy in the drugstore was bothered World War II because he was anti-Communist/anti-Soviet, not merely pacifist.

Posted by: Pete in TX at July 29, 2016 04:56 PM (2RBkF)

329 You should screen the 1939 version of the Four Feathers directed by Zoltan Korda. Great film about redemption and the unintended effects adults have on impressionable children.

Posted by: l at July 29, 2016 04:58 PM (1iqqd)

330 Gibson makes movies with stories that interest him and he thinks he can tell well, like Costner and Eastwood.

Frankly I don't give a crap what a drunk guy said when he was angry and frustrated. If that's our standard on how people behave, we're all hellbound.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at July 29, 2016 05:11 PM (39g3+)

331 I believe it was Dietrich Bonhoeffer, or C.S. Lewis that said "I have never known a prayerful man to be a coward."

Posted by: Grampa Jimbo at July 29, 2016 05:13 PM (4+VII)

332 Random agreement that EVERYONE, Ace especially included, should drop what they're doing and make it a point to go see Four Lions, a dark (BLEAKLY DARK) comedy about English homegrown jihadis that is simultaneously hilarious and depressingly dead-accurate about the sorts of people who get involved with it.

It is, quite seriously, a film that I am amazed was ever even made. Also, Benedict Cumberbatch (aka Sherlock Holmes) has a nice quick little cameo as a hostage negotiator.

Posted by: Jeff B. at July 29, 2016 05:48 PM (ewYO6)

333 I am actually very interested in this movie.

I am not a pacifist, however, I think there is a big difference between choosing not to serve at all, and claiming pacifism, and serving, in a non-combatant role on the battlefield.

Doss did the latter, and with distinction.
http://www.cmohs.org/recipient-detail/2717/doss-desmond-t.php

This man said I cannot kill, but I can serve selflessly, and that, to me, makes all the difference in the world.

He filled a niche role in the military. The military would prefer NOT to fill that role with pacifists, for understandable reasons, but it CAN be done.

Posted by: sippin_bourbon at July 29, 2016 06:11 PM (Gl74b)

334 I see Hacksaw Ridge is a Lionsgate Film. That's the studio Frank Guistra founded. He's the one who gave Hillary Hossein Obama scores of millions of dollars to sell Russia the rights to US uranium. Senator Alphonse D'Amato the other day confirmed Russian is giving that particular uranium to Iran. Iran will bomb us with Nevada uranium. The radiation from each nuke has a particular distinctive signature that tells us the origin of the uranium. The nuke made from this bomb will tell us the uranium came from Nevada (or Wyoming). Iran will lob the nuke from a container ship or a tanker. They know how to do that. So we won't know who nuked us. We'll only know the nuke contained the same domestic uranium we supply to our friends. Naturally, the press will conclude Israel nuked us.

Posted by: Luigi at July 29, 2016 06:24 PM (ueMyq)

335 Ditching sock

Posted by: Golfman at July 29, 2016 06:39 PM (48QDY)

336 I awesomely respect Desmond Doss - because he put his life on the line. No - he would not pick up a weapon, but he would serve on the front line under fire. Not many men - or women either -- have the guts and conviction to do that.

I hope the movie does well at the box office. As ...odd as Mel Gibson sometimes is -- his choices in movie-making are original. And I am one of the handful among us who liked Apocalypto - it was interesting, fascinating, even, as a look into a very alien culture.

Posted by: Sgt. Mom at July 29, 2016 07:55 PM (xnmPy)

337 The original version....I guess from the 30's or 40's was not a film about pacifism, but a film about regaining ones' honor in the face of false accusations of cowardice. The character simply didn't believe in the war he was being asked to support, and proving to his friends and airhead sweetheart that he was far from a coward.
Very good film with lots of combat, brutality sacrifice and bravery against a despicable foe....Middle Eastern at that. Of course it was mixed with a whole bunch of that old "Stiff Upper Lip", and "Honor above all else" British pathos.

Kinda like "Gunga Dinh with a love story angle.

Posted by: DWCurrie at July 29, 2016 08:26 PM (U/+zN)

338 I've seen the 30s and 70s versions of Four Feathers. In the 70s version which I remember best he was afraid of being a coward. I didn't see it as anti war.

Posted by: Don at July 29, 2016 09:45 PM (FTI54)

339 In the 1939 version of "The Four Feathers," the protagonist did a terrible thing by resigning his Army commission on the eve of his regiment being sent to fight the Dervishes in the Sudan. But his real fear was of being a coward -- of continuing to be a soldier only to let down his comrades, and failing to uphold his family's glory-filled martial history. By trying to redeem himself, of course, he proves that his fears of failure were unjustified and learns that he is in fact a brave man.

The Heath Ledger version was something of a mess and I don't think it's ever laid out clearly just why the hero resigns his commission -- a major omission!

Posted by: Bill the Butcher at July 29, 2016 09:58 PM (bom4+)

340 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKdwsWdH3A4

Here is a link to Desmond Doss real story as he told it.

Posted by: pointsnfigures at July 30, 2016 08:35 AM (Cgudb)

341 The film looks to be good but I won't watch it. I can't get beyond his anti-Semitic and raciest rants.

Posted by: Matthew at July 30, 2016 02:38 PM (Hxt3/)

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