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Saturday Gardening Thread: Summer Foraging [KT]

Europa.JPG

The mysterious, but not elusive, common daylily

Good afternoon gardeners. And a special welcome today to foragers, preppers, campers, and hobos. And those with an interest in genetics, developmental biology or related fields. Are you out there this afternoon, Y-not?

For today's thread, I went foraging through the comments on some recent AoSHQ threads. A couple of weeks ago, in the Food Thread, WhatWhatWhat? took us foraging for common daylilies, "one of the very best and easiest to harvest of the wild foods." Sounds fun. Here's a sample, but read the whole thing:

The common Day Lily stands about chest-high and grows in clonal groves. You rarely see just one. The buds and flowers (including opening and withered flowers) are edible. So are the roots and young shoots, but July is the time for the buds and flowers. The buds sort of resemble green beans and taste, to me, like a combination of green beans and mushrooms all in one (but it's very difficult to describe the taste of wild foods.)

The common daylily,Hemerocallis fulva is also known as the orange day-lily, tawny daylily, tiger daylily, fulvous daylily or ditch lily. Other common names include railroad daylily, roadside daylily, outhouse lily, tiger lily, and wash-house lily.

It grows in clonal groves because the most commonly distributed kinds are sterile triploid plants. Seems pretty unusual to me for a sterile plant to become an invasive noxious weed. But this one has aggressive roots. You should not plant it near your clumping hybrid daylilies, or most other plants you want to keep in the garden. It is good fo erosion control or in confined areas where gardening is difficult.

Both diploid and triploid forms are known in the wild, but most cultivated plants are sterile triploids which only reproduce vegetatively by stolons or division. At least four botanical varieties are recognized, including the typical triploid var. fulva, the diploid, long-flowered var. angustifolia (syn.: var. longituba), the triploid var. kwanzo, where the stamens are modified into additional petals, and the evergreen var. aurantiaca.

Europa is a sterile triploid single-flowered cultivar that is available commercially. Not mentioned in the Wiki:

flore pleno.jpg

Hemerocallis fulva 'Flore Pleno'

Single vs. Double Flowers

A couple of weeks ago, Youkali posted a nice rant about the superiority of single flowers over double flowers. I tend to agree with regard to close-up views of flowers. Daylilies got special mention:

Doubled day lilies? Fine if you like your flowers twisted and deformed and think that such is worth the sacrifice of the beauty of singles.

Double Dream.jpg


Double Dream.
Some are more twisted.

Some sources say that 'Kwanso' and 'Flore Pleno' are the same cultivar, and they probably have been labeled interchangeably. But Dr. Arlow Burdette Stout, The Father of Modern Daylily Breeding, used both of them in his breeding program. He said, "The flowers of the Flora Pleno Daylily ... in comparison with those of Kwanso ... have a greater number of well-formed petals, the number of stamens and aborted stamens per flower is less, and the pistil is more frequently fully aborted or not in evidence. The central column of the flower is shorter and the flower is more compact."

It sounds like Youkali gets some backing from the Father of Modern Daylily Breeding, particularly with regard to Kwanso, which likely passed down its deformities to some double hybrids. Dr. Stout's most famous hybrid, the heavy-blooming little Stella de Oro, has single flowers. But enough about the modern hybrids for today. I don't know if they are edible.

Old Kwanso persists. There is also a Kwanso variegata. It is a sport of Kwanso. Bet it is not as invasive as the other H. fulva cultivars.

kwanso var.jpg

A Botanical Mystery

For you scientists, Oxford presents a lengthy online paper advocating the use of daylilies as model organisms for research and as "nutraceutical foods". A discussion of the world of hybrid daylilies will have to wait for another day, but I thought this bit about the "common daylily" was interesting:

Outside of the Far East, Hemerocallis is primarily cultivated as a garden ornamental, with currently very little interest in culinary and medicinal usage. This is despite horticultural material—including presumed Far East cultigens, the virtually sterile triploid forms of H. fulva—having been cultivated for centuries. . . By repeating artificial crosses many hundreds of times, Stout was able to incorporate the genetics of almost sterile triploid clones of H. fulva (Chandler 1940) into hybrid lines. The origin of these old triploid clones is fascinating and mysterious in itself. No tetraploid individuals have ever been found in nature . . .

Let's Eat! Without making ourselves sick or burning ourselves

In Just Cloning Around, the Eat the Weeds Guy reminds us that not all daylilies are edible. There are hybrids out there resembling H. fulva that may not be as edible as H. fulva. Plants from old naturalized stands are likely to be H. fulva, though. If the daylilies are in a well-tended garden, you might want to check on what kind they are.

People can also develop sudden allergies to daylilies, and there is a sex-linked reaction in a minority of women. The roots are the plant part most likely to produce a toxic effect. Daylilies are toxic to cats. If you have cats and daylilies, also plant something more enticing, like cat grass.

At the link below are photos of other edible daylily species, like the fragrant "Lemon Daylily", Hemerocallis lilioasphodelus, AKA H. flava or H. citrina. And some subspecies. In Asia, it is dried into "golden needles" which are used in soups and other dishes. In Taiwan, the orange Common Daylily is prepared in the same way. Little H. minor is also used in traditional Asian foods. It is hardy enough to live in the interior of Alaska. Like the Common Daylily, the Lemon Daylily is naturalized in parts of the USA, usually around old buildings. But be sure that you identify it correctly. It probably has more look-alikes than the Common Daylily.

lemon daylily.jpg

PBS featured a campfire recipe for daylily bud fritters. Sounds ambitious to me. I would probably catch myself on fire. Has anyone in The Horde ever deep-fried food over a campfire?

Stuffing daylily flowers is O.K., but be careful about using hybrids. The ones pictured at the link look like hybrids Daylilies stuffed with lemon balm/chicken salad.

Reminder: Raw bean toxicity

O.K., so now I am going from foraging to garden grazing. Late in the Feed Thread (Sorry, Food Thread) a couple of weeks ago, the subject turned to the toxicity of raw green beans. We have addressed raw bean toxicity previously in the Garden Thread. Bottom line seems to be that a few young string beans from the garden probably won't hurt you. But if the beans inside have started to get big, be careful. The aftermath of eating raw Scarlet Runner Beans did not sound pretty. Eating Shelly Beans raw is a no-no. Kidney beans are especially toxic when raw, apparently. Keep this in mind when foraging from the neighbors' garden, or your own.

Lima beans and soy beans are also toxic when raw, but contain different toxins.

That was a cheery topic. Anything going on in your garden?

Posted by: Open Blogger at 12:45 PM




Comments

(Jump to bottom of comments)

1 Look at the flowers Lizzy.

Posted by: HH at July 23, 2016 12:53 PM (DrCtv)

2 Ricin comes from castor beans.

Posted by: boulder terlit hobo at July 23, 2016 12:58 PM (6FqZa)

3 Good afternoon greenthmbs.
Getting my first tomato ripening. But have a question on pumpkins, I'm getting a yellow straight squash every 3 days or so and have 2 pumpkin plants. On the squash plant every flower gives you a squash so assume pumpkins do the same. There might be 30 or more flowers but if I got 3 - 6 nice sized pumpkins I'd be more than happy. Do I cut off some flowers or will that just make it want to produce more?

Posted by: Skip at July 23, 2016 12:59 PM (bksJQ)

4 Also something got into my garden and chopped up my only producing green beans and 2 wax been plants. I catch it it is DEAD!

Posted by: Skip at July 23, 2016 01:02 PM (bksJQ)

5 I have 2 baby squash on my zucchini hills and several flowers. As fast as they grow it is still looking good to have fresh zucchini to sauté by the end of the month. The flower beds are feeling the drought, they have had little watering this year. I have gained ground in the fight against the goats heads burrs.

My hat is off to folks who grow serious amounts of food or create landscapes. I use our dry climate and sandy soil as an excuse but really I just don't have the ambition for more than a token garden. I especially shirk from having to do much food preservation.

Posted by: PaleRider at July 23, 2016 01:03 PM (wYRTH)

6 Skip I'll be reading the expert responses but what I've always read is that when you want to go for size records you pinch off all but one or two pumpkins or squash blossoms.

Posted by: PaleRider at July 23, 2016 01:05 PM (wYRTH)

7 Skip at July 23, 2016 12:59 PM

After you get the number of nicely shaped pumpkins you want, you can cut off the other flowers. Eat them if you want. This may encourage the plant to concentrate on ripening your pumpkins.

Posted by: KT at July 23, 2016 01:06 PM (qahv/)

8 Anything going on in your garden?
-----------------------
The weeds are taller than the garlic, and almost as tall as the pepper plants.
It's currently 97 with humidity over 90%. The weeds can grow another day.

I love my daylilies. Good ole common orange volunteers. I've spread them around to various parts of the yard. Sadly, they're done blooming.

Posted by: Chi at July 23, 2016 01:08 PM (8JjjJ)

9 What's up, Tiger Lily?

Posted by: Dr. Varno at July 23, 2016 01:09 PM (GdFQh)

10 PaleRider at July 23, 2016 01:03 PM

Congrats on the progress against goat heads. They are nasty.

And you don't need to apologize for not having a great big garden. Hope you get some nice zucchini.

Posted by: KT at July 23, 2016 01:10 PM (qahv/)

11 Yeah, i think cutting back some of those flowers sends the energy to the remaining fruit. I wonder if you can eat pumpkin blossoms like squash blossoms?

Posted by: Chi at July 23, 2016 01:11 PM (8JjjJ)

12 Big old butterflies been moving thru my property all week. They like the zinnias, sun coleus, and knockout roses.

Big mothers......

Posted by: Hairyback Guy at July 23, 2016 01:12 PM (ej1L0)

13 Skip, does it look like your destructive garden visitor was a mammal?

Posted by: KT at July 23, 2016 01:13 PM (qahv/)

14 My lawn has grubs.

And quackgrass.

It is a billion degrees here daily and never rains.

FYI, I'm in SE Michigan. Not "Arizona."

I haz a sad.

Posted by: shibumi who now just wants to yell at stupid people at July 23, 2016 01:14 PM (tvyXw)

15 No pumpkins are started yet, and don't need record size, just good size for a few pies and 1 to carve on Halloween

Posted by: Skip at July 23, 2016 01:15 PM (bksJQ)

16 Getting lots of peppers and tomatoes but only 1 tomatoe is turning. A couple of peppers I purposely sacrificed from my Anaheim pepper turned red after I cut them off and had it on the counter.

Posted by: Skip at July 23, 2016 01:18 PM (bksJQ)

17 Raw green beans are okay to eat, I've been eating them for years and it's the best way, in my opinion. It's runner beans that are toxic unless cooked. Your plain old Blue Lake beans are no problem. They aren't good either cooked or raw if they get very mature, though, because they are fibrous and tough.

Posted by: huerfano at July 23, 2016 01:19 PM (jkkMG)

18
Raining VERY hard here in Wisconsin right now....no gardening will be done today.


Just started watching The Martian with Matt Damon!! She who must be obeyed heard it was good and rented it.... sigh.


Is it wrong of me to root for Mars to crush the life out of Mr. Damon?

Posted by: Some Guy in Wisconsin at July 23, 2016 01:21 PM (Qj6zv)

19 It's too awful out to sit in the shade let alone work.

Posted by: DaveA at July 23, 2016 01:22 PM (8J/Te)

20 I planted pumpkin seeds once and had a lot of growth with a lot of flowers and finally 4 pumpkins that took a long time to mature. If you go to pick-your-own farm late in October they are still on the vine.

Posted by: OldDominionMom at July 23, 2016 01:23 PM (GzDYP)

21 I'm starting over. Everything did very good but so much heat and humidity stopped most stuff in it's tracks. I'll use this as a strategy from now on and plan to replant in early July.

If anyone can find a company like McGill compost that does it on an industrial scale, get it. Amazing stuff, they have to lime it so the product not only replaces fertilizer but lime too and it's cheap, $5 yard here in NC. A 40 yd trailer load is enough for several(3-4) acres.

Posted by: Traye at July 23, 2016 01:24 PM (EvVV6)

22 A few weeks ago I took 100 or so hydgrandea (9 varieties total) cuttings for rooting. It appears that only 6 of them failed too take. Yay me.

Posted by: Phil at July 23, 2016 01:25 PM (VxfwE)

23 Whenever I hear daylily, I think of this guy.

He loves a daylily.

Mercergarden.com

These folks do pretty well too.

Mariettagardens.com

Posted by: Golfman at July 23, 2016 01:28 PM (48QDY)

24 Chi at July 23, 2016 01:08 P

Yep,

Hard to get motivated at temperatures like those. I find myself trying to do everything during a couple of hours in and morning and/or an hour at night. We had about a 40 degree difference between day and night temperatures yesterday. Forecast is for 107 Tuesday.

Posted by: KT at July 23, 2016 01:28 PM (qahv/)

25 Chi at July 23, 2016 01:11 PM

Yes, you can eat pumpkin blossoms. Pumpkins are just squash that look like pumpkins.

Posted by: KT at July 23, 2016 01:29 PM (qahv/)

26 Hairyback Guy at July 23, 2016 01:12 PM

What color are the butterflies you are seeing?

Posted by: KT at July 23, 2016 01:31 PM (qahv/)

27 So far this year it's been very dry for me, around my immediate area has had t-storms but they miss me. Luckily I have a rain barrel built off the ground about 4 foot with a hose bib faucet and hose. I water every other day but it's a drop to get my plants through dry spells.

Posted by: Skip at July 23, 2016 01:32 PM (bksJQ)

28 shibumi who now just wants to yell at stupid people at July 23, 2016 01:14 PM

Garden sadz happen to all of us. Hope things look up soon.

Posted by: KT at July 23, 2016 01:33 PM (qahv/)

29 This year I planted Indian corn in about 4 different plantings, as I germinated a handful like sprouting beans, planted them, and then sprouted the next hand full.

I do this because I re-use seed and I want to keep an eye on what colors sprout how ( It is a mild interest only)
Anyhow, I planted one batch, then waited two weeks, and planted the next 3 batches about a week apart.

Two weeks ago the first batch started tasseling out, and this week the next batch tasseled, and the next batch seems to be coming on.

It is interesting that the corn seems to be set on time-to-tassel, and not by size, moisture or so much by sun.

Posted by: Kindltot at July 23, 2016 01:34 PM (ry34m)

30 The heat has been horrific this week and even keeping up with the watering it is taking a toll on the summer squash. The roma tomatoes and bell peppers are loving it.

We won't have much if anything to can for the autumn except a good amount of dried herbs. But what we've been getting: squash, zucchini, cherry and roma tomatoes and peppers, have been wonderful eating.

I made a big pot of vegetable soup yesterday and the primary ingredient was summer squash from our garden. Don't see it used in most soup recipes but it adds a depth of freshness and a mild sweet flavor to counterbalance the onions and celery. Delish!

Posted by: JTB at July 23, 2016 01:35 PM (V+03K)

31 huerfano at July 23, 2016 01:19 PM

I eat raw green beans, too. You described how they lose edibility as they get too mature. That is when they become toxic, just like scarlet runner beans. It's the beans inside, not the pods.

I have also eaten young scarlet runner beans without problems. They can REALLY turn tough when they get big. Especially the older kinds.

Posted by: KT at July 23, 2016 01:36 PM (qahv/)

32 I am in my annual struggle with cucumber beetles. The standard organic solutions are not working well. Last year they destroyed the zucs and cucumbers. I will be meeting with a DNR specialist on invasive weeds who will map the farm. I took on burdock and thistle last year, added garlic mustard this year. A lot of the plants that DOT planted on roadsides are now listed as invasive

Posted by: lurking grandma at July 23, 2016 01:38 PM (2VaQu)

33 Traye at July 23, 2016 01:24 PM

Did the heat stop your eggplant, too? Or did you plant eggplant?

Let us know what you re-plant. August is the time for re-planting green beans and cucumbers here.

Posted by: KT at July 23, 2016 01:39 PM (qahv/)

34 Welp off to do a bit of spraying before another long break out of the heat.

Posted by: PaleRider at July 23, 2016 01:41 PM (wYRTH)

35 A good reminder that now is the time for some gardeners in the North to plant fall crops, Traye. Doesn't seem right somehow.

Posted by: KT at July 23, 2016 01:41 PM (qahv/)

36 Raining VERY hard here in Wisconsin right now....no gardening will be done today.

Posted by: Some Guy in Wisconsin
...........
Send some of that down here! It is bone dry here.. we got a little rain the other day.. otherwise, nothing.

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at July 23, 2016 01:41 PM (UpGcq)

37 Phil at July 23, 2016 01:25 PM

Congratulations! What will you do with that many hydrangeas?

Posted by: KT at July 23, 2016 01:43 PM (qahv/)

38 The deer love my lilies. They must be delish.

Posted by: PJ at July 23, 2016 01:43 PM (hEM0t)

39 My compost squash are doing fantastic this year. I have what must be a sweet-meat squash that is nearly the size of my head, and some others that look like delicatas.
The leaves are larger than dinner plates and the vines have crawled up the wire netting and are up about 5 feet in the air.

I let the squash grow out of my almost finished compost heap that I let sit over summer to sprout out all the second year seeds. I do a two year program on compost, the squash are a side-benefit.

Next year I might decide to plant chayote squash, though the climate is a bit cold and short for it here.

Posted by: Kindltot at July 23, 2016 01:43 PM (ry34m)

40 Kindltot at July 23, 2016 01:34 PM

Interesting corn info.

Posted by: KT at July 23, 2016 01:45 PM (qahv/)

41
I made a big pot of vegetable soup yesterday and the primary ingredient was summer squash from our garden. Don't see it used in most soup recipes but it adds a depth of freshness and a mild sweet flavor to counterbalance the onions and celery. Delish!
Posted by: JTB
------------------
That sounds really good, but I just can't eat soup on hot days.
I may have a tomato sammich (just white bread, Duke's, tomato & cheese), some cucumber salad and a cold beer for lunch.
But nothing warm.

Posted by: Chi at July 23, 2016 01:45 PM (8JjjJ)

42 I just spent an hour watering half the garden. Usually, here in northwest RI, I rarely have to water at all once I get the plants in, but this summer's been pretty dry. All the little pop-up thunderstorms either miss us, or pass by too quickly to leave anything appreciable in the amount of rain. No serious rain in sight as well.

My back is not going to appreciate all the watering cans I'll be lugging.

Posted by: LivingInABlueState at July 23, 2016 01:47 PM (HEcuC)

43 JTB at July 23, 2016 01:35 PM

I like to put squash in soup, too. Sometime you have to be careful to add it before tomatoes, or it will squeak on your teeth when you eat it.

Posted by: KT at July 23, 2016 01:47 PM (qahv/)

44 urking grandma at July 23, 2016 01:38 PM

Sorry about the cucumber beetles. Let us know how your anti-weed project goes.

Posted by: KT at July 23, 2016 01:50 PM (qahv/)

45 All I have is some poblano, jalapeno, and another kind that I don't know the name. My tomatoes are a few weeks away.
My neighbor brought me some of his.

Posted by: CaliGirl at July 23, 2016 01:52 PM (eU/yZ)

46 "What will you do with that many hydrangeas? "

Damned if I know. Heh. Honestly, didn't expect that many to take.

The original plan was to turn the paniculatas into a 50' hedge.

The lacecaps and annabelles get scattered about in a woodland garden setting along a path.

Posted by: Phil at July 23, 2016 01:53 PM (VxfwE)

47 If is very rewarding to crush them manually, even though it is unlikely to reduce the population much.

Posted by: lurking grandma at July 23, 2016 01:53 PM (2VaQu)

48 It's time to put the bird netting on the grapes. We deleafed 2 weeks ago. The Pinot grapes are red. A lot of grapes this year.

We have 2 competing theories on thinning the clusters.
The winemaker wants us to thin the small clusters now. My husband wants to wait until the sugar is higher then thin the small clusters. My husband thinks stressing the vines makes better wine.

Posted by: CaliGirl at July 23, 2016 01:56 PM (eU/yZ)

49 Please fwd to PIXY: Paul Anka Integrity Kick link
on the sidebar is stale, or mis-linked.
I could not find a hyperlink that went to the updated "Paul Anka Rant" on youtube, which is alive and well at this address:
http://tinyurl.com/PaulAnkaIntegrityKickRant
or:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jfp7v3ZtPW8
Thats all, and I love the new mastery of diet & fitness thread: "So logical: even a squadron of morons could master their domain anew!"

Posted by: MoJoTee at July 23, 2016 01:59 PM (aR8Ih)

50 Chi, usually I would agree but our one household extravagance is keeping the house cool in the summer. I make the soup first thing in the morning and just reheat a bowl in a small pot as needed. So the house doesn't heat up from the kitchen activities. Back when I worked outdoors hot soup never passed my lips in the summer.

But that sandwich sounds great. And tempting. And there's a jar of Dukes mayo not thirty feet away. Hmmmm!

Posted by: JTB at July 23, 2016 02:00 PM (V+03K)

51 Phil at July 23, 2016 01:53 PM

Sounds beautiful.

Posted by: KT at July 23, 2016 02:01 PM (qahv/)

52 Caligirl - I've only ever read about wine making but that's the theory how to get more flavorful wine is having the plants stressed.
Either way lots of luck.

Posted by: Skip at July 23, 2016 02:02 PM (bksJQ)

53 43 ... KT, I haven't experienced the squeaky teeth syndrome that I'm aware of. Now that you've mentioned it I'll probably notice. :-)

Posted by: JTB at July 23, 2016 02:03 PM (V+03K)

54 CaliGirl,

I really like poblano peppers.

I don't know anything about de-leafing grapes.

For table grapes, I always though than thinning sooner produced bigger grapes. Don't know anything about timing of thinning to stress the plants and increase quality.

Posted by: KT at July 23, 2016 02:05 PM (qahv/)

55 CaliGirl, I am informed by someone who doesn't bootleg in any way that you make better brandy out of the less mature grapes. It is something about flavor and acetones and such. But he'd rather talk about distillation than timing for picking grapes.

I don't know if that would help you in any way.

Posted by: Kindltot at July 23, 2016 02:06 PM (ry34m)

56 Isn't there an old vintners' saying: "The more tortured the vine, the sweeter the grape." That always sounded pretty ominous to me. Glad I'm not a grape.

Posted by: JTB at July 23, 2016 02:06 PM (V+03K)

57 Cucumbers are a sore point again, after many years of all I could eat last year and this year are disappointing. I bought 6 plants, 4 only survived, many flowers on 3, so far I have 1 single cucumber almost ready to show for it.

Posted by: Skip at July 23, 2016 02:06 PM (bksJQ)

58 Raw leans are toxic? When did that happen? I've been eating them raw for years!

So far the garden has produced one banana pepper. Not sure what to do with it.

Posted by: Weasel at July 23, 2016 02:08 PM (Sfs6o)

59 Kt, the heat gets my tomatoes, it's the overnight humidity and 80+ temps, they get nasty wilts and virus. That goes for anything I can't keep very free of weeds, the weeds just hold in wet and warm.

I'm lucky that I can have 2 summer crop seasons if I plan it right and the second plantings will go longer than the first because the heat becomes more tolerable for the plants.

My eggplants are just now starting to make and I have done a good job of keeping the weeds away.

My fall corn, beans, squash and cukes are up but still very small.

Next year I'm going to work harder on weed suppression from the jump. I do want some weeds though because they make such great free pig food and I can "pick" the weeds like a crop at optimal nutrition value.

So much balancing to figure out here.

Posted by: Traye at July 23, 2016 02:08 PM (EvVV6)

60 leans = beans

Posted by: Weasel at July 23, 2016 02:09 PM (Sfs6o)

61 Weasel at July 23, 2016 02:08 PM

They are only toxic when the beans inside get big. Some cultivars more than others. Don't worry about it unless you go on some sort of raw food diet and start eating shelled beans raw. The dosage is the poison.

And watch the scarlet runners. The beans inside can develop fast.

Posted by: KT at July 23, 2016 02:11 PM (qahv/)

62 KT, Thanks for today's daylily post. Lilies are Mrs. JTB's favorites and there was a naturalized patch in their backyard when she was little. (They must have been taller than she was.)

We haven't done much with flowers for a few years but the idea of naturalizing patches of daylilies and scented daffodils (my favorite) is very appealing.

Posted by: JTB at July 23, 2016 02:13 PM (V+03K)

63 Thanks KT. Would I be correct in assuming the antidote for a raw bean overdose is jelly donuts and chocolate ice cream and peach cobbler?

Posted by: Weasel at July 23, 2016 02:14 PM (Sfs6o)

64 Thanks KT. Would I be correct in assuming the
antidote for a raw bean overdose is jelly donuts and chocolate ice cream
and peach cobbler?
Posted by: Weasel at July 23, 2016 02:14 PM (Sfs6o)


Eat some ham and stand in front of the running microwave

Posted by: Kindltot at July 23, 2016 02:16 PM (ry34m)

65 Posted by: KT at July 23, 2016 02:05 PM (qahv/)
Deleafing is they trim the leaves around the clusters so the grapes get more light and airflow. But the birds will wipe out the whole crop if we don't cover them.
The winemaker's theory is the plant can put all its energy into the clusters we want to pick.
My husband's theory is stress the vine. I don't know anything but those grapes are a lot of work.

Posted by: CaliGirl at July 23, 2016 02:16 PM (eU/yZ)

66 JTB at July 23, 2016 02:13 PM

I like the daylily and daffodil idea, too. But use clumping daylilies so they don't over-run your daffodils.

Posted by: KT at July 23, 2016 02:16 PM (qahv/)

67 CaliGirl, do you sell the leaves to whoever that makes dolmades or whatever they call the stuffed grape leaves?

Posted by: Kindltot at July 23, 2016 02:18 PM (ry34m)

68 Caligirl, this works for poblanos: Get a roasted chicken and shred the meat. Blister some poblanos on the grill or under the broiler. Put the peppers in a plastic bag for 20 minutes. Peel off the tough outer layer. Cut them in half, discard stems and seeds. Lightly grease a baking dish. Layer poblanos, chicken, and shredded smoked gouda, or some other cheese. Bake at 350 about 30-45 minutes. Serve with toast, because the juices are too dam good not to soak up.

Posted by: Gordon at July 23, 2016 02:19 PM (PXmcz)

69 My container peppers are still doing well and producing on Hell Patio. They're mostly in Earthboxes and grow bags. It's hard to directly compare the two container styles for production because I have different varieties in them. One other good thing is that I'm not having to water everyday as I thought I would. They can go two or three days without watering, but the grow bag plants are wilty by then.

Posted by: stace...TEXIT at July 23, 2016 02:21 PM (ozZau)

70 Well, if I'm going to start the smoker, I need to go out back and chop up that dead apple branch. But that's 200ft away, through what feels like Death Valley.
Smoked salmon and a butterflied chicken ready to go on...

If I'm not back for the pet thread, send a search party!

Posted by: Chi at July 23, 2016 02:22 PM (8JjjJ)

71 "Would I be correct in assuming the antidote for a raw bean overdose is jelly donuts and chocolate ice cream and peach cobbler?"

Weasel, the ice cream is probably not needed. But you must have sufficient quantities of the peach cobbler. (Oh God, I'm starting to salivate.)

Posted by: JTB at July 23, 2016 02:22 PM (V+03K)

72 I planted some mountain mint in my small (townhouse) backyard. Can't really plant vegetables there, too close to a small wood. I did plant some mountain mint, information said "mammalian herbivores find the mint fragrance of the leaves and stems repugnant." I planted a nice size plant, two stems and about twenty inches tall. I now have two stalks maybe six inches tall...

Posted by: Lirio100 at July 23, 2016 02:23 PM (WY8ka)

73 Single vs double: In the lotus garden at Lotusland (Montecito, CA) , where we visited recently, the double blooms were beautiful but all of them were flopped over. The single blooms really made a prettier display.

Posted by: stace...TEXIT at July 23, 2016 02:25 PM (ozZau)

74 KT, Thanks for mentioning the clumping daylilies. My knowledge of these things is neither deep nor wide.

Posted by: JTB at July 23, 2016 02:25 PM (V+03K)

75 Posted by: Kindltot at July 23, 2016 02:18 PM (ry34m)
We only have 4 acres of grapes. They drop them on the ground, then they drive the small tractor through with a small ripper implement and put them in the compost pile. Or the burn pile. I'm not sure.

Posted by: CaliGirl at July 23, 2016 02:25 PM (eU/yZ)

76 stace...TEXIT at July 23, 2016 02:21 PM

I have hesitated on growbags for that reason. Bet they would do well in winter here.


Posted by: KT at July 23, 2016 02:26 PM (qahv/)

77 JTB - Cobbler is a universal antidote, with preventative doses proven by science to strengthen the immune system.

Posted by: Weasel at July 23, 2016 02:26 PM (Sfs6o)

78 Posted by: Gordon at July 23, 2016 02:19 PM (PXmcz)
Thanks, I took a screen shot of that recipe.

Posted by: CaliGirl at July 23, 2016 02:27 PM (eU/yZ)

79 Lirio100 at July 23, 2016 02:23 PM

Challenges . . .

Posted by: KT at July 23, 2016 02:28 PM (qahv/)

80 Wife eats beans raw, I would bug like them cooked, IF I can keep the varmint out of my garden

Posted by: Skip at July 23, 2016 02:28 PM (bksJQ)

81 There is a winery near the Twin Cities whose motto is, "Where the grapes can suffer." The gal who runs it makes a thing called ratafia, which is wine in which one steeps orange peel and other aromatic herbs. It is thicker than wine, a bit sweet, and really really good before or after dinner.

It is so good that the Spaniards fly her over to show them how to make it. Apparently they invented it but it takes a Minnesota gal to make it good.

http://tinyurl.com/zwkn2d7

Posted by: Gordon at July 23, 2016 02:28 PM (PXmcz)

82 Posted by: Kindltot at July 23, 2016 02:06 PM (ry34m)
I just want to drink the wine. My eyes start glazing over if I listen to the wine maker for too long. He is an artist.

I argue with him. He hates that we use herbicides when the plants are dormant. I explained that we do that once and it costs a few hundred for the chemicals and 1 guy on the tractor 3 hours. To weed by hand it would take 10 guys maybe 20 hours. Once a month. If he wants to give me 50,000 I'll do it his way and he shut up. My husband ignores him and does what he wants.

Posted by: CaliGirl at July 23, 2016 02:32 PM (eU/yZ)

83 I have hesitated on growbags for that reason. Bet they would do well in winter here.


Posted by: KT at July 23, 2016 02:26 PM (qahv/)

I bet so. I didn't have to water them at all this past spring with the cooler temps and regular rain.

Thanks for another wonderful garden thread, btw.

Posted by: stace...TEXIT at July 23, 2016 02:35 PM (ozZau)

84 77 ... Weasel, Don't you just love settled science?

Posted by: JTB at July 23, 2016 02:36 PM (V+03K)

85 KT,
I bet it's hot your way. It's the Paso fair this week and I'm glad I'm not going to a concert this year. It's supposed to be 106 today. Blake Shelton is playing tonight. I wanted to see Duran Duran.

Posted by: CaliGirl at July 23, 2016 02:38 PM (eU/yZ)

86 Caligirl, that's interesting about the wine grapes. We did a wine tasting at a small vineyard outside of Solvang. I learned a lot, but I was starting from a very low baseline!

His vines had been recently regrafted to another varietal--Vermentino? We looked at the grafts, and it's hard to imagine all the work that went into doing each vine.

Posted by: stace...TEXIT at July 23, 2016 02:40 PM (ozZau)

87 Here's some photos after de leafing.

http://tinypic.com/r/of1pp0/9


http://tinypic.com/r/2ekiqaf/9

Posted by: CaliGirl at July 23, 2016 02:42 PM (eU/yZ)

88 Posted by: stace...TEXIT at July 23, 2016 02:40 PM (ozZau)
Do you remember which winery?

Posted by: CaliGirl at July 23, 2016 02:45 PM (eU/yZ)

89 Alas, it is HOT and the garden is just surviving. The only thing still going are my wild cherry tomatoes. I didn't plant any this year but they are everywhere...this is after I pulled hundreds of small plants.

I went to the Biltmore this spring and saw potted plants with beautiful flowers but no one could tell me what they were. Maybe y'all can help....

http://tinypic.com/r/viiszb/9

Posted by: lindafell TEXIT!! at July 23, 2016 02:45 PM (xVgrA)

90 Posted by: CaliGirl at July 23, 2016 02:45 PM (eU/yZ)

I think it's something like Sogno de Fiore.

Posted by: stace...TEXIT at July 23, 2016 02:48 PM (ozZau)

91 Stace,
Me too. It is interesting. A lot of what they talk about I don't understand. I just say uh huh. I realize if you ask 20 different wine grape growers questions you get 100 different answers.
They all have different theories. Our grapes are a small vanity project. We just want some wine.

Posted by: CaliGirl at July 23, 2016 02:48 PM (eU/yZ)

92 Stace,
I know where that is. I drive by it. I don't know them.

Posted by: CaliGirl at July 23, 2016 02:52 PM (eU/yZ)

93 Pet thread is Nood. Hope you'll join us

Posted by: L, Elle at July 23, 2016 02:54 PM (6IPEM)

94 Posted by: lindafell TEXIT!! at July 23, 2016 02:45 PM (xVgrA)
The flowers themselves look like camellias. KT will know. Maybe some sort of begonia?

Posted by: CaliGirl at July 23, 2016 02:55 PM (eU/yZ)

95 CaliGirl, I knew some people who grow organic wine grapes, and they were really proud of it. I am not sure how they afford it with labor costs and all, and I suspected the wife is bankrolling the husband which makes it a hobby, not a business.

Oh, I just discovered that both my jalapenos and cayenne peppers are hot even while green.

OK, actually the girlfriend just discovered that, and got ice cream to sooth the burn.


Posted by: Kindltot at July 23, 2016 02:55 PM (ry34m)

96 Caligirl,
They look like some type of begonia to me too. But I've never seen flowers like that on one.

Posted by: lindafell TEXIT!! at July 23, 2016 02:56 PM (xVgrA)

97 92 Stace,
I know where that is. I drive by it. I don't know them.
Posted by: CaliGirl at July 23, 2016 02:52 PM (eU/yZ)

Oh, cool! That is such a wonderful area you're in. Some of our group biked from Solvang to the winery and back. Not me, heh. That would way too healthy.

Mr Fiore is entertaining, and a good salesman. We had some of his wine club wines shipped to us. We thought the ones we tasted were very good, but we're certainly not connoisseurs.

Posted by: stace...TEXIT at July 23, 2016 02:57 PM (ozZau)

98 I'm guessing begonia too, double bloom, Lindafell, but I suck at bedding plant ID.

Posted by: stace...TEXIT at July 23, 2016 02:59 PM (ozZau)

99 Tuberous begonia, maybe?

Posted by: Kindltot at July 23, 2016 02:59 PM (ry34m)

100 That deleafing is interesting. We have a variety of cherry tomato called Indigo Blue Berry. The ones that get sun turn from red to dark purple. Sometimes you get them purple on one side and red on the shady side. The wife says there is a taste difference but won't say which she likes better.

Yah, when the winemaker saves up his money and has his own vineyard he can weed the way he wants.

We bought three Grow Box containers. The herbs are rioting and we have so so much basil. The tomatoes have blossom end rot and I keep dumping in bone meal. The peppers...well, we are gonna have Chicken Poblano ourselves tomorrow, probably. The pepper box has to be watered every day because they suck it dry. But there are many, many peppers in a very small space.

Posted by: Gordon at July 23, 2016 03:01 PM (PXmcz)

101 CaliGirl at July 23, 2016 02:38 PM

106 is hot for Paso. That forecast is hotter than ours here. Though it is supposed to be 107 Tuesday.

Thanks for the deleafing photos. Something new for me. But then, I've only worked table grapes.

Posted by: KT at July 23, 2016 03:01 PM (qahv/)

102 lindafell TEXIT!! at July 23, 2016 02:45 PM

Those are tuberous begonias. There are some types with moderately sized flowers meant for bedding. Or it could be large-flowered ones stressed by their containers.

Posted by: KT at July 23, 2016 03:05 PM (qahv/)

103 Thanks for the help IDing everyone!

Posted by: lindafell TEXIT!! at July 23, 2016 03:07 PM (xVgrA)

104 Hey, uh, does anybody want some zucchini?

Posted by: runninrebel at July 23, 2016 03:09 PM (mQoUp)

105 Posted by: Kindltot at July 23, 2016 02:55 PM (ry34m)
It's really inefficient. I taught the winemaker to say we are sustainable.

Posted by: CaliGirl at July 23, 2016 03:11 PM (eU/yZ)

106 Try "bio-intensive integrated pest and weed management"

That covers all sorts of approaches.

Posted by: Kindltot at July 23, 2016 03:16 PM (ry34m)

107 I am going to order some bulbs to plant as house plants next spring.

Posted by: lindafell TEXIT!! at July 23, 2016 03:21 PM (xVgrA)

108 lindafell

Tuberous begonias need good air circulation. They can get mildew.

They can also be very elegant.

Posted by: KT at July 23, 2016 03:25 PM (qahv/)

109 runninrebel at July 23, 2016 03:09 PM

Heh.

Posted by: KT at July 23, 2016 03:27 PM (qahv/)

110 Posted by: Kindltot at July 23, 2016 03:16 PM (ry34m)
I am stealing that.

Posted by: CaliGirl at July 23, 2016 03:29 PM (eU/yZ)

111 Tomato crops are coming in and the winners this year are: brown derby and pink Berkeley tie dye. Huge and tasty heirlooms. Better boy and Stupice also great w good yields. Not going to do Hungarian heart, San Marzano gig ante or Cherokee purple again as they were disappointing 2 years in a row. Cherries: indigo rose and blush are pretty but acidy. Sticking w sun gold and super sweet 100 next year w excellent yield and taste.
Started garden gem from seed so they are behind and no verdict on them yet.
For some reason eggplant not producing much this year but peppers are.
Can I replant a second crop of zucchini in so cal now?

Posted by: keena at July 23, 2016 03:33 PM (RiTnx)

112 Posted by: keena at July 23, 2016 03:33 PM (RiTnx)
I'm north-of-Boston and I can't believe the Pink-Berkley-Tie-Dye. This is my first year growing them and I think they'll come in before the cherry and grape toms.

Posted by: plum at July 23, 2016 03:43 PM (h+OMg)

113 @plum: you'll love them!

Posted by: keena at July 23, 2016 05:32 PM (RiTnx)

114 Never looked at lilies the same after reading this Poe story...

http://poestories.com/read/silence

Posted by: tomaig at July 23, 2016 05:59 PM (i34xM)

115 I was cleaning out my fridge today and came across a couple of large red onions I've left in there likely for a couple of months. There are enormous sprouts protruding from the top of one of them. Is this something that I could actually plant just for the sake of it? The second onion didn't sprout, but I sliced it open and it appears perfectly edible.

Posted by: antisocial justice beatnik at July 23, 2016 06:37 PM (jV8Mq)

116 Is this something that I could actually plant just for the sake of it?

Well, it would probably grow a green top, but I don't know if it would be worth the effort.

Posted by: JQ Flyover at July 23, 2016 07:09 PM (044Fx)

117 Keena--I'm sorry to hear your Cherokee Purples were a disappointment--it may be that they just don't like your area. They do really well for me here in RI, and they are one of my absolute favorites. A good Cherokee Purple has, without meaning to sound snooty, many layers of depth and flavor to them. They sort of create a taste symphony that I really enjoy.

I'm glad Stupice is doing well for you--for whatever reason Stupice and Moskvich don't like my garden. They just get scraggly. I've given up on them.

I also grow Sungolds every year--they are just pure garden candy. The other cherries I have going this year are Black Cherry, Pink Bumblebee, Juliet (more of a large grape) and Five Star Grape. Our other regular tomatoes are Rose, Brandywine, Cherokee Purple, Kellogg's Breakfast and I'm trying Cosmonaut Volkov this summer, because it looked so pretty in the seed catalog. Unfortunately, it seems super susceptible to early blight (my Brandys don't even have any yet) so I doubt I'll give it another go next year.

Posted by: LivingInABlueState at July 23, 2016 07:27 PM (HEcuC)

118 Based upon my cursory research, it sounds like I may get some seeds within 2 years should I decide to plant this. Does that sound right? I'm just curious; I have failed in taking care of the two bonsai plants I've had over my lifetime, so that would be a tall order...

Posted by: antisocial justice beatnik at July 23, 2016 07:28 PM (jV8Mq)

119 Harvested 2 small zukes (I like 'gold rush' because they're easy to see!)

and 2 small eggplant today. ('Ichiban' makes a long narrow fruit that looks like a black chile pepper.)

Sweet corn batch #1 is almost ready to harvest, while batch #2 is starting to tassel.

The Glass Gem corn looks lush like houseplants, but no tassels yet.

Okra is struggling, but there are flower buds forming-- yay!

There's one surviving acorn squash vine and it's just beginning to *really* grow.

Carrots were a complete bust-- 3 yr old seed-- mostly didn't come up. Oh well.

We get a few tomatoes a week, just enough for snack, salad and sammiches. Perfect.

We have a Snacking Garden this year-- won't be enough for canning/pickling-- and that's fine with me!

Posted by: JQ Flyover at July 23, 2016 07:31 PM (044Fx)

120 it sounds like I may get some seeds within 2 years should I decide to plant this. Does that sound right?

If you plant right away, you *might* get seeds this year. Don't know if they'll be true to the original onion, though...

Good luck!

Posted by: JQ Flyover at July 23, 2016 07:34 PM (044Fx)

121 AJB - I plant all sorts of things that have sprouted, like rutabagas and potatoes, for fun. I have done onions too. It will probably throw up a spike and a flower this year or next.
The flowers are pretty enough, I have seen decorative onion and garlic as place-holders and infills in a local iris growers' presentation garden, but the standard stuff looks like pom-poms

Posted by: Kindltot at July 23, 2016 07:39 PM (ry34m)

122 Thanks JQ and Kindltot! I'll pick up a flower pot and soil tomorrow and just see what happens.

Posted by: antisocial justice beatnik at July 23, 2016 08:05 PM (jV8Mq)

123 keena at July 23, 2016 03:33 PM

keena at July 23, 2016 03:33 PM

Great tomato report! Interested to learn about Brown Derby. Pink Berkeley Tie Dye is well-regarded for cool-summer climates in particular.

Was Hungarian Heart a disappointment in flavor or yield? I have read some good stuff about some of the hearts and the ones I have grown have an interesting flavor. But only a few of them are known for yield.

Open-pollinated tomatoes are more likely to do well in one garden and not in another than the hybrids. You might try Indian Stripe if you want one similar to Cherokee Purple that is more productive.

I would go for a repeat on zucchini if I were in So Cal. Sometimes we can get a fall crop in here. Maybe some other summer squashes, too. Maybe some green beans or early, bitter-free cucumbers, too.

Posted by: KT at July 23, 2016 08:12 PM (qahv/)

124 tomaig at July 23, 2016 05:59 PM

Quite a word-picture there. A lot of darkness in Poe's viewpoint, I would say. Interesting that his words hold attraction for us.


Posted by: KT at July 23, 2016 08:19 PM (qahv/)

125 LivingInABlueState at July 23, 2016 07:27 PM

Thanks for the tomato report. Cosmonaut Volkov may have been developed as a greenhouse tomato, like many others in the USSR. I grew it last year and loved the flavor, but it didn't last long. It was my early tomato.

You might want to try Moravsky Div as an alternative to Stupice. It is a commercial open-pollinated one. May be semi-determinate, small-growing. Very early where adapted.


Posted by: KT at July 23, 2016 08:25 PM (qahv/)

126 The hops are hoppin'! They're branching out now, and I keep training them up their spiral supports... I see flower buds! Woohoo!

Here's what they looked like 2 weeks ago:

http://tinypic.com/r/x0zo1s/9

And here's a pic taken today:

http://tinypic.com/r/1z648wz/9

From L to R: 'Cascade' 'Newport' 'Centennial'

I put the little succulent groundcovers in to help keep the soil cool. This is on the south side of our house and it gets HOT.

They're just babies, so not expecting a huge harvest but there will be *some* and maybe enough for bro to brew one or two batches...

Next year, they go into the ground. Somewhere. I've got about 8 months to figure it out, lol.

Posted by: JQ Flyover at July 23, 2016 10:05 PM (044Fx)

127 JQ Flyover at July 23, 2016 10:05 PM

Hops! Ambitious. Thanks for the pics. Let me know if you see any Red Admiral Butterfly caterpillars on the leaves. Hops may be an alternate host to nettles.

Posted by: KT at July 23, 2016 11:06 PM (qahv/)

128 I think it would be fun to have a foraging party with WhatWhatWhat?

Somewhere with more stuff to forage than here.

Posted by: KT at July 23, 2016 11:08 PM (qahv/)

129 Idaho's Treasure Valley (Boise area): Triple digits predicted for part of the coming week. Bleaugh. These hot summers are part of the price I pay for having Walked To Freedom from my former home state 2 years ago, but I don't have to like them.

We spent the last 2 days using husband's newest tool - a chain saw on a stick, basically - to cut off low branches that interfere with irrigation sprayers (or that hit him in the face while on the riding mower). Took 2 loads of branches to the dump, saved some chunks for firewood.

We blanched a bunch of green beans today (boil 3 min., ice bath 3 min., lay on towel to dry, then freeze).

Red raspberry spring crop definitely done. We'll be making raspberry wheat beer by using steamed raspberry juice, early this week. That will free up room in the freezer for more beans, and...

Fresh corn! Two of us may not be able to keep up with eating fresh ears of corn, given the size of our corn patch, so some amount of that will end up frozen too.

Zucchini - just 4 plants - but they are definitely getting ahead of us. Tomorrow is slated for a lot of shredding, steaming, and freezing.

Also, looking at the butternut squashes on the pantry floor - some with brown spots on outside - makes me think we should cook, mash, and freeze all that, too. A chest freezer seems a likely purchase, before the end of the summer.

Early Girl tomatoes have started producing, as have little Sun Golds. Romas have fruits but they are still completely green. (Not sure what husband's plan is, for those, anyway.)

I put a bunch of parsley through the dehydrator. It's dreadfully boring to crumble it for storage...

I have 1 sugar pie pumpkin plant, with 3 decent size fruits and one new one coming on. They make me irrationally happy.

We staggered plantings of cantaloupe seeds - 2 of the plants seem to be on hold, waiting for more moderate temperatures.

Butternut squash plants going crazy, but I haven't yet checked them for fruit.

Strawberries have runners now, so our job is to persuade them to root where we want them to, and remove excess runners.

Also have not checked on my Radish Experiment. (Explanation: Went away for 2 weeks. Told neighbor to eat radishes. She didn't. Radishes got BIG. Decided to leave 9 of them in and let them go to seed, to see if I could get seed, then if it would be viable next year. Radishes got HUGE, as did plants - we're talkin' 4 feet tall! They started interfering with irrigation sprayers so I pulled out 8 and left one in to mature its seeds. I need to check on those seedpods.)

Oh, note to anyone who reads the garden thread down this far is that yes, there is a point in the late summer when you should remove small fruits and any new flowers from your winter squashes, to push the plant into putting its remaining energy into the large fruits which *can* mature before frost. We did this with our butternuts last year.

Posted by: Pat* at July 23, 2016 11:20 PM (ZdNOH)

130 I figured out to grow tomatoes a few years ago. They're kicking butt again this year.

We cleaned out the strawberries yesterday. The old plants are gone.

The raspberries are winding down.

We're eating beets, lettuce, zuchinni and string beans from the garden. I grow in raised beds. Best thing ever.

Posted by: Sue at July 24, 2016 06:33 AM (N5Lm3)

131 KT at July 23, 2016 08:25 PM

Interesting thought about the Cosmonaut Volkovs. I'm really looking forward to trying them--it's a shame that they're so prone to early blight.

Thanks for the suggestion of Moravsky Div. It would be nice to have sm early tomato do well for me, I just seem to strike out on the early varieties.

Pat* --sounds like a great garden!

Posted by: LivingInABlueState at July 24, 2016 09:06 AM (HEcuC)

132 Pat* and Sue:

Thanks for the encouraging and fun reports.

Posted by: KT at July 24, 2016 09:43 AM (qahv/)

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