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Quinnipiac: Clinton 45, Trump 41
A 4-point deficit is better than what we've seen lately.
But it's also still losing. While Trump is surprisingly close in Pennsylvania, a new battleground poll shows him well behind in six other swing states.Comments
(Jump to bottom of comments)1
foist?
Posted by: Ben Rothlisburger, not using all caps today, because I forgot at June 29, 2016 12:03 PM (kKHcp)
Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at June 29, 2016 12:04 PM (ptqRm)
3
This is a nation in which our Low Information President has an approval rating over 50%.
We're doomed.
We're doomed.
Posted by: Furious George at June 29, 2016 12:04 PM (57K5j)
4
Sure, I get a first with a dirty sock from yesterday.
Posted by: OneEyedJack at June 29, 2016 12:04 PM (kKHcp)
5
Never Hillary ... or die?
Posted by: Paladin at June 29, 2016 12:04 PM (4kpbt)
6
I still feel like it's too early for polls.
It would be nice though if Trump started spending for some ads in battleground states.
It would be nice though if Trump started spending for some ads in battleground states.
Posted by: What's a Seawolf? at June 29, 2016 12:05 PM (cPMmb)
7
Is this the same poll Drudge has headlined as being tied?
Posted by: OneEyedJack at June 29, 2016 12:05 PM (kKHcp)
8
Oh boy
Polls!!!
Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at June 29, 2016 12:04 PM (ptqRm)
In many ways the story of Obama, when he was a gloryhole worker at Man's Country
Polls!!!
Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at June 29, 2016 12:04 PM (ptqRm)
In many ways the story of Obama, when he was a gloryhole worker at Man's Country
Posted by: TheQuietMan at June 29, 2016 12:05 PM (493sH)
9
Obviously ISIS isn't doing enough to be taken seriously.
Posted by: Methos, AoSHQ commenter since 2006, now apparently nonvoting democrat at June 29, 2016 12:07 PM (3Liv/)
10
Maybe ISIS will launch a few more "lone wolf attacks" and change the race?
Sorry...sick of all the bad news today.
Sorry...sick of all the bad news today.
Posted by: Lizzy at June 29, 2016 12:07 PM (NOIQH)
11
>>NRA to Run Benghazi Themed Ad Attacking Clinton in Battleground States<<
Watch here; https://youtu.be/SIl20jItjHY
Article:http://tinyurl.com/zo9hc3x
Watch here; https://youtu.be/SIl20jItjHY
Article:http://tinyurl.com/zo9hc3x
Posted by: Marcus T at June 29, 2016 12:07 PM (O0lVq)
12
So you're saying there's a chance!
Posted by: Lloyd Christmas at June 29, 2016 12:08 PM (KUaJL)
13
I guess all those bronze tits will go bye bye now.
Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at June 29, 2016 12:08 PM (mpXpK)
14
If she can hide her face for another four months she's golden
Posted by: X at June 29, 2016 12:08 PM (nFwvY)
15
Yo Ace, wrong poll.
The new Q poll is Clinton 42, Trump 40. 45/41 is last month's poll.
And those new battleground polls? From a firm that has never published a poll before.
The new Q poll is Clinton 42, Trump 40. 45/41 is last month's poll.
And those new battleground polls? From a firm that has never published a poll before.
Posted by: Dave in Fla at June 29, 2016 12:08 PM (PwmKD)
16
It's
It's
Posted by: M Magoo at June 29, 2016 12:08 PM (dy7qd)
17
While Trump is surprisingly close in Pennsylvania, a new battleground poll shows him well behind in six other swing states.
---------------
He speechified in Pennsylvania yesterday, and he's going to speechify in Colorado on Friday (albeit it at some conservative shindig, not some crushed coke can place that used to be a factory).
As the rallies morph into speeches, I think things will improve.
While Trump is surprisingly close in Pennsylvania, a new battleground poll shows him well behind in six other swing states.
---------------
He speechified in Pennsylvania yesterday, and he's going to speechify in Colorado on Friday (albeit it at some conservative shindig, not some crushed coke can place that used to be a factory).
As the rallies morph into speeches, I think things will improve.
Posted by: iforgot at June 29, 2016 12:08 PM (pC96u)
18
As in the previous thread, what is Ballotpedia? Never heard of them, Quinnipiac, yes they are reputable and have been around for a while. I think I am going to start my own polling company, everyone seems to be doing it these days.
Posted by: IC at June 29, 2016 12:08 PM (a0IVu)
19
Quinnipiac is a Democrat poll firm so I am not too worried. They have probably stacked the Democrat side hard.
Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at June 29, 2016 12:09 PM (mpXpK)
20
I've sometimes wondered, where exactly should a candidate be in the polls at- this point in time to be in the zone?
What's the magic number?
+4, +40, +eleventy?
What's the magic number?
+4, +40, +eleventy?
Posted by: willy at June 29, 2016 12:09 PM (Ffw22)
21
The real question of this election cycle is whose side will have the most depressed turnout.
IMO, that's why the outrage meter is being spiked on all the usual topics for dems, because they need an issue to get their folks to vote. The candidate won't be enough.
The R side is probably going to be missing a few nice-slacks wearing dweebs who think they have principles, so the best Rs can hope for this time around is a low turnout.
IMO, that's why the outrage meter is being spiked on all the usual topics for dems, because they need an issue to get their folks to vote. The candidate won't be enough.
The R side is probably going to be missing a few nice-slacks wearing dweebs who think they have principles, so the best Rs can hope for this time around is a low turnout.
Posted by: OneEyedJack at June 29, 2016 12:09 PM (kKHcp)
22
Polling organizations are subsets of the MSM where their stuff gets published. Just as fake as their other news.
Posted by: Dave with a Brain at June 29, 2016 12:09 PM (0a1T6)
23
Also, nationwide polls don't mean shit. Now the PA one does, as do FL, VA, NC, and OH
Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at June 29, 2016 12:09 PM (mpXpK)
Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at June 29, 2016 12:09 PM (IqV8l)
25
Trump is doing fine. He hasnt even begun to campaign yet.
No other Repblican would be doing better.
Trump is doing fine. He hasnt even begun to campaign yet.
No other Repblican would be doing better.
Posted by: M Magoo at June 29, 2016 12:10 PM (dy7qd)
26
To retread what we have been discussing in the last two threads, those BG polls are showing Clinton leading by 10 in North Carolina.
Strains credulity.
Strains credulity.
Posted by: Dave in Fla at June 29, 2016 12:10 PM (PwmKD)
27
WOO-WOO!!!
Posted by: Trump Train - Classy & Golden at June 29, 2016 12:11 PM (10hEu)
28
Trump is polling close after spending $0 in battleground states? Maybe he should pay for Hillary's ads.
Posted by: Roy at June 29, 2016 12:11 PM (VndSC)
29
I've sometimes wondered, where exactly should a candidate be in the polls at- this point in time to be in the zone?
What's the magic number?
+4, +40, +eleventy?
----
Considering we've seen polls in the past week everywhere from -12 to -2, I'd say "all of the above".
What's the magic number?
+4, +40, +eleventy?
----
Considering we've seen polls in the past week everywhere from -12 to -2, I'd say "all of the above".
Posted by: Methos, AoSHQ commenter since 2006, now apparently nonvoting democrat at June 29, 2016 12:11 PM (3Liv/)
30
Maybe Trump will get a mention (veiled or direct) in Obama's statement re: Turkey terror bombing?
Over/under he'll mention Islam?
OK, if he mentions it, over/under it's to clarify that these terrorists were not true Muslims, racist!?
Over/under he'll mention Islam?
OK, if he mentions it, over/under it's to clarify that these terrorists were not true Muslims, racist!?
Posted by: Lizzy at June 29, 2016 12:12 PM (NOIQH)
31
21 The real question of this election cycle is whose side will have the most depressed turnout.
-------------------------
Then that NRA ad @11 has the right idea.
21 The real question of this election cycle is whose side will have the most depressed turnout.
-------------------------
Then that NRA ad @11 has the right idea.
Posted by: iforgot at June 29, 2016 12:12 PM (pC96u)
32
Brexit polling still has REMAIN over LEAVE, right?
Posted by: Roy at June 29, 2016 12:12 PM (VndSC)
33
To retread what we have been discussing in the last two threads, those
BG polls are showing Clinton leading by 10 in North Carolina.
Strains credulity.
---
Maybe. How many rapefugees and mexican voters got shipped their way?
BG polls are showing Clinton leading by 10 in North Carolina.
Strains credulity.
---
Maybe. How many rapefugees and mexican voters got shipped their way?
Posted by: Methos, AoSHQ commenter since 2006, now apparently nonvoting democrat at June 29, 2016 12:12 PM (3Liv/)
34
IC - No one has ever heard of Ballotpedia before. They have never published a poll before, as far as I can find. They have certainly never been included in the RCP average in the past.
Posted by: Dave in Fla at June 29, 2016 12:13 PM (PwmKD)
35
I have a feeling a lot f these obscure polls are financed by Republicans to try to influence the weak-kneed and convention delegates. We'll find out after the election.
I have a feeling a lot f these obscure polls are financed by Republicans to try to influence the weak-kneed and convention delegates. We'll find out after the election.
Posted by: M Magoo at June 29, 2016 12:13 PM (dy7qd)
36
I'm starting to get Trump solicitations for election money in the mail and the internets, so at least something is starting up.
Supposedly the spending last month was 26 million for Cankles to 0 million for Trump; if all that bought was a 4 point spread, this is.....intriguing.
Supposedly the spending last month was 26 million for Cankles to 0 million for Trump; if all that bought was a 4 point spread, this is.....intriguing.
Posted by: Sort-of-Mad Max at June 29, 2016 12:13 PM (XdbLA)
37
ABANDON SHIP
ALL HANDS
OUT OF THE BOAT AND INTO THE WATER
DON'T BOTHER FIGHTING, DON'T BOTHER TRYING TO SURVIVE
WE GOT A STORM WARNING
IT'S ALL OVER
ABANDON SHIP
ALL HANDS
OUT OF THE BOAT AND INTO THE WATER
DON'T BOTHER FIGHTING, DON'T BOTHER TRYING TO SURVIVE
WE GOT A STORM WARNING
IT'S ALL OVER
ABANDON SHIP
Posted by: Late Stage TDS Patient at June 29, 2016 12:13 PM (wOKJp)
38
13 I guess all those bronze tits will go bye bye now.
Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at June 29, 2016 12:08 PM
The mammiform protuberances of witches are reputed to be very cold.
Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at June 29, 2016 12:08 PM
The mammiform protuberances of witches are reputed to be very cold.
Posted by: Duncanthrax at June 29, 2016 12:13 PM (ziriD)
39
It's too early to start panicking, don't you think?
A lot could happen between now and the @2nd Tuesday in November.
A lot could happen between now and the @2nd Tuesday in November.
Posted by: ALH at June 29, 2016 12:13 PM (uLuPn)
40
Wrong poll. They are only 2 points apart. Doesn't this also make you wonder about some of the polls from only a few days ago that showed ridiculous gains for Clinton?
Trump will win. No question about it. The polls are a mess right now, that is clear. At least Quinnipiac used a normal sample...so this one is probably closer to the truth.
Trump will win. No question about it. The polls are a mess right now, that is clear. At least Quinnipiac used a normal sample...so this one is probably closer to the truth.
Posted by: K-E at June 29, 2016 12:14 PM (NmDhP)
41
Then that NRA ad @11 has the right idea.
Posted by: iforgot at June 29, 2016 12:12 PM (pC96u)
I certainly think the time for gentlemanly fisticuffs is well past.
Posted by: iforgot at June 29, 2016 12:12 PM (pC96u)
I certainly think the time for gentlemanly fisticuffs is well past.
Posted by: OneEyedJack at June 29, 2016 12:14 PM (kKHcp)
42
Meanwhile, the Democrats mentioned Trump 23 times in their version of the Benghazi report.
Rotten, dishonest, evil people, the Democrats are.
Meanwhile, the Democrats mentioned Trump 23 times in their version of the Benghazi report.
Rotten, dishonest, evil people, the Democrats are.
Posted by: M Magoo at June 29, 2016 12:14 PM (dy7qd)
43
Trump is polling close after spending $0 in battleground states? Maybe he should pay for Hillary's ads.
Posted by: Roy
.........
Because he has zero dollars in the bank.. I keep wondering where all the donations are from all the gung-ho Trumpettes out there..
Who here that supports Trump has actually sent him money?
I'll sit down now and wait for your responses..
Posted by: Roy
.........
Because he has zero dollars in the bank.. I keep wondering where all the donations are from all the gung-ho Trumpettes out there..
Who here that supports Trump has actually sent him money?
I'll sit down now and wait for your responses..
Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at June 29, 2016 12:15 PM (so+oy)
44
Did you see how Ted Cruz is doing again Hillary? Oh wait, he and fifteen other losers didn't get the nomination.
Posted by: Dogbert at June 29, 2016 12:15 PM (WQhlR)
45
"A lot could happen between now and the @2nd Tuesday in November. "
2nd Wednesday in November is still the Democratic General election, right?
2nd Wednesday in November is still the Democratic General election, right?
Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at June 29, 2016 12:15 PM (ptqRm)
46
Late Stage TDS Patient at June 29, 2016 12:13 PM (wOKJp)
For a candidate who pretty much ran entirely on his poll results in the primary it's kind of odd that his supporters now act like polls don't matter.
I don't care how little money Trump is spending. I want to see him in the lead for a change.
For a candidate who pretty much ran entirely on his poll results in the primary it's kind of odd that his supporters now act like polls don't matter.
I don't care how little money Trump is spending. I want to see him in the lead for a change.
Posted by: JackStraw at June 29, 2016 12:15 PM (/tuJf)
47
Maybe Trump's going to force crooked hillary to spend a bunch of money early, then swoop in a little later with an ad blitz.
::gets popcorn ready::
::gets popcorn ready::
Posted by: willy at June 29, 2016 12:15 PM (Ffw22)
Posted by: Panic Monkey at June 29, 2016 12:15 PM (4WhSY)
49
2nd Wednesday in November is still the Democratic General election, right?
Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at June 29, 2016 12:15 PM (ptqRm)
Yes, that's correct!
2nd Wednesday in November is still the Democratic General election, right?
Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at June 29, 2016 12:15 PM (ptqRm)
Yes, that's correct!
Posted by: ALH at June 29, 2016 12:16 PM (uLuPn)
50
Trump will win. No question about it.
Posted by: K-E
...........
Must be nice to live in your world..
Posted by: K-E
...........
Must be nice to live in your world..
Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at June 29, 2016 12:16 PM (so+oy)
51
Does Barky use the women's restroom now?
Posted by: Killerdog at June 29, 2016 12:16 PM (86StK)
52
It's going to be a very long summer and fall as Hilary emerges from the Benghazi report dustup with her standing ENHANCED (incredibly, but just watch). It will be spun as old news and partisan attacks, and eventually morph inevitably into yet more evidence of her awesomeness to continue to withstand the constant barrage of criticism of a strong woman by angry males.
The media are getting ready to swing into full praetorian guard and coronation mode.
I'm getting depressed just focusing on it. Anyone with any suggestions (already trying Valu-Rite and hobo hunting is beyond my pay grade) as to how to keep at least minimally informed and not have your head explode?
The media are getting ready to swing into full praetorian guard and coronation mode.
I'm getting depressed just focusing on it. Anyone with any suggestions (already trying Valu-Rite and hobo hunting is beyond my pay grade) as to how to keep at least minimally informed and not have your head explode?
Posted by: RM at June 29, 2016 12:16 PM (U3LtS)
53
About the only good news on polls that I've read lately is that the polling on Brexit induced George Soros to lose a bundle on currency futures.
Oooopsie, George.
Read the fine print; even if you diddle all your money away, Satan still gets your soul.
Heh.
Oooopsie, George.
Read the fine print; even if you diddle all your money away, Satan still gets your soul.
Heh.
Posted by: Sort-of-Mad Max at June 29, 2016 12:16 PM (XdbLA)
Posted by: Monsieur Moo Moo at June 29, 2016 12:16 PM (0LHZx)
55
I certainly think the time for gentlemanly fisticuffs is well past.
Posted by: OneEyedJack at June 29, 2016 12:14 PM (kKHcp)
I think we passed the exit for gentlemanly fisticuffs about 20 years ago.
Posted by: OneEyedJack at June 29, 2016 12:14 PM (kKHcp)
I think we passed the exit for gentlemanly fisticuffs about 20 years ago.
Posted by: Jay Guevara at June 29, 2016 12:16 PM (oKE6c)
56
I'm going to try to get all this:
Trump is shown to be losing right now in polls: which is bad.
But Trump hasn't spent any money advertising yet, where as Hillary has: which is good.
But that's because Trump doesn't have any money to spend right now: which is bad.
But that's because he hasn't been fundraising at all until he gets the nomination at the convention: wait a minute..
But he hasn't locked up the nomination yet because look at the polls! He's losing already. Why would the republican party go with him instead of somebody who looks like they could do better. So we're back where we started.
I'm not going to listen to polls any more until they do the one on Nov 2.
Trump is shown to be losing right now in polls: which is bad.
But Trump hasn't spent any money advertising yet, where as Hillary has: which is good.
But that's because Trump doesn't have any money to spend right now: which is bad.
But that's because he hasn't been fundraising at all until he gets the nomination at the convention: wait a minute..
But he hasn't locked up the nomination yet because look at the polls! He's losing already. Why would the republican party go with him instead of somebody who looks like they could do better. So we're back where we started.
I'm not going to listen to polls any more until they do the one on Nov 2.
Posted by: joe, living dangerously at June 29, 2016 12:16 PM (KUaJL)
57
Trump is doing fine. He hasnt even begun to campaign yet.
No other Repblican would be doing better.
Posted by: M Magoo at June 29, 2016 12:10 PM (dy7qd)
As I suggested at the tail end of the last thread, neither has Hillory. In which case, I believe Trump has about as many negatives already out there as any Presidential candidate is able to have at this point in the cycle, whereas Hillory has about as many of her personal negative STILL HIDDEN as any Presidential candidate could have at this point.
The woman is evil. Most people have not seen her in years. They either don't remember, or they never knew in the first place. I doubt she will be able to hide who she is for the whole of this thing.
No other Repblican would be doing better.
Posted by: M Magoo at June 29, 2016 12:10 PM (dy7qd)
As I suggested at the tail end of the last thread, neither has Hillory. In which case, I believe Trump has about as many negatives already out there as any Presidential candidate is able to have at this point in the cycle, whereas Hillory has about as many of her personal negative STILL HIDDEN as any Presidential candidate could have at this point.
The woman is evil. Most people have not seen her in years. They either don't remember, or they never knew in the first place. I doubt she will be able to hide who she is for the whole of this thing.
Posted by: BurtTC at June 29, 2016 12:16 PM (TOk1P)
58
Once NRA starts showing Hillary! himming and hawing whether guns are an individual right or not, you're going to see magic in PA.
I've met quite a few old farmers that are big on the Clinton train, with no idea that she was running to the left of Bernie on guns.
I've met quite a few old farmers that are big on the Clinton train, with no idea that she was running to the left of Bernie on guns.
Posted by: Chupacabra at June 29, 2016 12:16 PM (V40IZ)
59
He should start blasting away at Hilary with the Benghazi Report.
Sadly, Trey Gowdy not telling the media what we all know allows them to say Hilary cleared of any wrongdoing.
Sheesh.
He should start blasting away at Hilary with the Benghazi Report.
Sadly, Trey Gowdy not telling the media what we all know allows them to say Hilary cleared of any wrongdoing.
Sheesh.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at June 29, 2016 12:17 PM (p4UlV)
60
Yesterday proved that there is no lie the media won't tell to suppory Hillzebub. Regardless, the polls don't matter. We can't vote Hillz and the best chance of stopping the She-beast is voting Trump.
P.S. I have twice been telephoned in the last 48 hours. One pollster, sounded like a young female, audibly gasp at my strong anti-beast opinions.
P.S. I have twice been telephoned in the last 48 hours. One pollster, sounded like a young female, audibly gasp at my strong anti-beast opinions.
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Racist for Dinosaurs at June 29, 2016 12:17 PM (Nwg0u)
61
I think the Moochelle uses the hydrant on the corner.
Posted by: Killerdog at June 29, 2016 12:18 PM (86StK)
62
51 Does Barky use the women's restroom now?
Posted by: Killerdog at June 29, 2016 12:16 PM (86StK)
I suspect he's always been a sitzpinkler.
Posted by: Killerdog at June 29, 2016 12:16 PM (86StK)
I suspect he's always been a sitzpinkler.
Posted by: Insomniac at June 29, 2016 12:18 PM (0mRoj)
63
The polls conclusively proved that Dewey beat Truman... ;-)
Posted by: setnaffa at June 29, 2016 12:18 PM (jl6Ly)
64
Relax.
Last week I told you the market would recover by Wednesday. Looks like I was right.
Relax.
Relax.
Last week I told you the market would recover by Wednesday. Looks like I was right.
Relax.
Posted by: M Magoo at June 29, 2016 12:18 PM (dy7qd)
65
I think we passed the exit for gentlemanly fisticuffs about 20 years ago.
Posted by: Jay Guevara at June 29, 2016 12:16 PM (oKE6c)
Longer.
Posted by: Jay Guevara at June 29, 2016 12:16 PM (oKE6c)
Longer.
Posted by: OneEyedJack at June 29, 2016 12:18 PM (kKHcp)
66
Todays polls are not designed to determine what you think.
Todays polls are designed to influence what you think.
Howd that Brexit poll the day before work out???
The only pollster that got 2012 right was Nate fucking Silver.
Todays polls are not designed to determine what you think.
Todays polls are designed to influence what you think.
Howd that Brexit poll the day before work out???
The only pollster that got 2012 right was Nate fucking Silver.
Posted by: fixerupper at June 29, 2016 12:18 PM (8XRCm)
67
Your numbers are wrong. It's Clinton 42 Trump 40. It's, like, right in the first paragraph of the linked article and everything.
45-41 was the June 1 poll. He's moving in the right direction.
45-41 was the June 1 poll. He's moving in the right direction.
Posted by: Steven at June 29, 2016 12:19 PM (Cvsgc)
Posted by: Panic Monkey at June 29, 2016 12:19 PM (4WhSY)
69
I really don't give a shit about polls.
I'm voting for Trump and advising everyone I know or have any influence over to vote for him.
There simply is no other choice.
Just saying the name Clinton makes me physically unwell.
I'm voting for Trump and advising everyone I know or have any influence over to vote for him.
There simply is no other choice.
Just saying the name Clinton makes me physically unwell.
Posted by: Kreplach at June 29, 2016 12:19 PM (3Xxpy)
70
>>Meanwhile, the Democrats mentioned Trump 23 times in their version of the Benghazi report.
Aaaaand that should convince anyone who thought maybe having a less bombastic, more serious candidate might save the GOP from having their candidate totally and completely smeared by the MSM and the Dems.
Nope. If Cruz were the nominee, they no doubt would have mentioned him 23 times.
Aaaaand that should convince anyone who thought maybe having a less bombastic, more serious candidate might save the GOP from having their candidate totally and completely smeared by the MSM and the Dems.
Nope. If Cruz were the nominee, they no doubt would have mentioned him 23 times.
Posted by: Lizzy at June 29, 2016 12:19 PM (NOIQH)
71
You brute, Anonosaurus Wrecks, Racist for Dinosaurs!
Posted by: andycanuck at June 29, 2016 12:20 PM (A/+my)
72
Stay calm, the conventions haven't even happened yet.
Posted by: Monty James at June 29, 2016 12:20 PM (L+kTC)
73
Regan trailed Carter 32 to 39 at this point in 1980.
Regan trailed Carter 32 to 39 at this point in 1980.
Posted by: fixerupper at June 29, 2016 12:20 PM (8XRCm)
74
Take out the ridiculous ABC and Reuters polls showing Hillary up +11 and +12 (look at the sample data for Reuters...42% Dem, 'nuff said). Every other polls shows a 2-5% lead for the beast. That's where we are.
Posted by: Monsieur Moo Moo at June 29, 2016 12:21 PM (0LHZx)
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Racist for Dinosaurs at June 29, 2016 12:21 PM (Nwg0u)
76
Stay calm, the conventions haven't even happened yet.
Don't you get it? Hillary's gonna win, and we'll all shipped off to the camps and forced to do macrame.
Don't you get it? Hillary's gonna win, and we'll all shipped off to the camps and forced to do macrame.
Posted by: Panic Monkey at June 29, 2016 12:22 PM (4WhSY)
77
59 Sadly, Trey Gowdy not telling the media what we all know allows them to say Hilary cleared of any wrongdoing.
Sheesh.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at June 29, 2016 12:17 PM (p4UlV)
You didn't read that article I posted in the morning news? Trey sure as hell went on Fox and blasted the shit out of Scankles AND Obama over Benghazi.
Sheesh.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at June 29, 2016 12:17 PM (p4UlV)
You didn't read that article I posted in the morning news? Trey sure as hell went on Fox and blasted the shit out of Scankles AND Obama over Benghazi.
Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at June 29, 2016 12:22 PM (mpXpK)
78
73
Regan trailed Carter 32 to 39 at this point in 1980.
______________
Mah fellow Ahmurcans, Ahm proud to enter mah second term..to be ya'll's presdent again..
Regan trailed Carter 32 to 39 at this point in 1980.
______________
Mah fellow Ahmurcans, Ahm proud to enter mah second term..to be ya'll's presdent again..
Posted by: Carter's blue sweater at June 29, 2016 12:23 PM (Ffw22)
79
Meanwhile, the Democrats mentioned Trump 23 times in their version of the Benghazi report.
___________
Rent-free, baby.
___________
Rent-free, baby.
Posted by: Jay Guevara at June 29, 2016 12:23 PM (oKE6c)
80
A close look at the demographics show this race is closer than thought.
And Clinton is dropping and her support is weak where it should be stronger.
The only true blue (?) supporters are Blacks and 2/3rd's women.
But that's more than balance by the White vote and Male vote.
Remember they are reporting percentages of the voting block they're talking about. A 90percent support by voting Blacks is 9million votes or so. Whereas White support is at 60 to 70 percent which is about 100million.
And I believe the voter turnout will be big.
And Clinton is dropping and her support is weak where it should be stronger.
The only true blue (?) supporters are Blacks and 2/3rd's women.
But that's more than balance by the White vote and Male vote.
Remember they are reporting percentages of the voting block they're talking about. A 90percent support by voting Blacks is 9million votes or so. Whereas White support is at 60 to 70 percent which is about 100million.
And I believe the voter turnout will be big.
Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That at June 29, 2016 12:23 PM (ECJ+C)
81
Once NRA starts showing Hillary! himming and hawing whether guns are an individual right or not, you're going to see magic in PA.
Unless the non-urban areas magically outvote the cities somehow, I find such a possibility unlikely.
Unless the non-urban areas magically outvote the cities somehow, I find such a possibility unlikely.
Posted by: Brother Cavil at June 29, 2016 12:23 PM (9krrF)
82
Willowed and worth repeating:
Turnout, turnout, turnout.
The key variable in this election will be turnout, and it's highly likely that turnout won't track the turnout patterns of 2008 and 2012. Both Hillary and Trump have unprecedented negatives, for example, which will affect turnout but it's not clear how.
None of the polls know how to model this accurately, so they're all inherently flawed. The RCP average is just an average of flawed polls.
News outlets like ABC, NBC and WaPo commissioned flawed polls by implicitly assuming high D turnout. This was done on purpose, to generate headline ledes to show Hillary crushing Trump. The Q poll shows a dead heat by using more balanced turnout, but it may not be correct either.
****
This also explains the inconsistencies between tight polls for swing states, but Hillary killing Trump in nationwide polls.
Turnout, turnout, turnout.
The key variable in this election will be turnout, and it's highly likely that turnout won't track the turnout patterns of 2008 and 2012. Both Hillary and Trump have unprecedented negatives, for example, which will affect turnout but it's not clear how.
None of the polls know how to model this accurately, so they're all inherently flawed. The RCP average is just an average of flawed polls.
News outlets like ABC, NBC and WaPo commissioned flawed polls by implicitly assuming high D turnout. This was done on purpose, to generate headline ledes to show Hillary crushing Trump. The Q poll shows a dead heat by using more balanced turnout, but it may not be correct either.
****
This also explains the inconsistencies between tight polls for swing states, but Hillary killing Trump in nationwide polls.
Posted by: Ignoramus at June 29, 2016 12:23 PM (r1fLd)
83
77 You didn't read that article I posted in the morning news? Trey sure as hell went on Fox and blasted the shit out of Scankles AND Obama over Benghazi.
Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at June 29, 2016 12:22 PM (mpXpK)
Funny. That wasn't Limbaugh's take on it in his monologue. He was rather peeved at Gowdy.
Jim Jordan on the other hand was utterly devastating.
Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at June 29, 2016 12:22 PM (mpXpK)
Funny. That wasn't Limbaugh's take on it in his monologue. He was rather peeved at Gowdy.
Jim Jordan on the other hand was utterly devastating.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at June 29, 2016 12:23 PM (p4UlV)
84
Yes, I am happy right now. When you look at direct QA in these polls, Trump beats Hillary by a mile. You cannot tell me this won't translate to votes in the fall. From the Quinnipiac poll:
1) 52% think Trump would be better at creating jobs (40% Hillary)
2) 52% think Trump would be more effective at handling ISIS (39% Hillary)
What do most people vote on in national elections? Economy first. Security second. When people get into that voting booth, that is what they are going to be thinking about: their own economic situation and their own safety.
1) 52% think Trump would be better at creating jobs (40% Hillary)
2) 52% think Trump would be more effective at handling ISIS (39% Hillary)
What do most people vote on in national elections? Economy first. Security second. When people get into that voting booth, that is what they are going to be thinking about: their own economic situation and their own safety.
Posted by: K-E at June 29, 2016 12:24 PM (NmDhP)
85
For a candidate who pretty much ran entirely on his poll results in the primary it's kind of odd that his supporters now act like polls don't matter.
I don't care how little money Trump is spending. I want to see him in the lead for a change.
Posted by: JackStraw at June 29, 2016 12:15 PM (/tuJf)
If by poll results you mean actual votes, then yes. Yes he did.
I don't care how little money Trump is spending. I want to see him in the lead for a change.
Posted by: JackStraw at June 29, 2016 12:15 PM (/tuJf)
If by poll results you mean actual votes, then yes. Yes he did.
Posted by: BurtTC at June 29, 2016 12:24 PM (TOk1P)
86
Using my psychic power, I'm listening in on the Huma deposition --
Huma: I don't recall.
Huma: I can't remember.
Huma: I don't know.
Huma: Not to my knowledge.
Huma: I sort of vaguely remember hearing something along those lines. It's very foggy though.
Huma: I need to speak to attorney for a minute.
Huma: I've answered the question. Can we move on to question number two?
Huma: I don't recall.
Huma: I can't remember.
Huma: I don't know.
Huma: Not to my knowledge.
Huma: I sort of vaguely remember hearing something along those lines. It's very foggy though.
Huma: I need to speak to attorney for a minute.
Huma: I've answered the question. Can we move on to question number two?
Posted by: GnuBreed at June 29, 2016 12:24 PM (gyKtp)
87
Take out the ridiculous ABC and Reuters polls showing Hillary up +11 and +12 (look at the sample data for Reuters...42% Dem, 'nuff said). Every other polls shows a 2-5% lead for the beast. That's where we are.
Posted by: Monsieur Moo Moo
..........
National polls do not matter.. not at all.. swing state polls are all that matter at this point.
That said.. the national polls may influence how the rules committee decides to run things in Cleveland.. if the conscientious objector rule comes into play, we won't have to worry about Trump's numbers..
Posted by: Monsieur Moo Moo
..........
National polls do not matter.. not at all.. swing state polls are all that matter at this point.
That said.. the national polls may influence how the rules committee decides to run things in Cleveland.. if the conscientious objector rule comes into play, we won't have to worry about Trump's numbers..
Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at June 29, 2016 12:24 PM (so+oy)
88
Don't you get it? Hillary's gonna win, and we'll all shipped off to the camps and forced to do macrame.
S'okay. Some of us will escape into the mountains and come rescue you.
If you want.
S'okay. Some of us will escape into the mountains and come rescue you.
If you want.
Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That at June 29, 2016 12:24 PM (ECJ+C)
89
80 And I believe the voter turnout will be big.
Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That at June 29, 2016 12:23 PM (ECJ+C)
I don't.
Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That at June 29, 2016 12:23 PM (ECJ+C)
I don't.
Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at June 29, 2016 12:24 PM (mpXpK)
90
They Say It's My Birthday . . . Happy Birthday To Me!!!
53 is the New 35.
At least I keep telling myself that.
Heh.
53 is the New 35.
At least I keep telling myself that.
Heh.
Posted by: Sharkman at June 29, 2016 12:25 PM (CS7jF)
91
Trump underpolled in the primaries as well.
Ballotpedia....whatevs.
PPP had a series of polls last week that showed the race in siwng states either tired within the MOE or a slight lead for the beast. And now some outfit nobody has ever heard of comes out a week later and says the beast is up 10% in FL? Come on.
Ballotpedia....whatevs.
PPP had a series of polls last week that showed the race in siwng states either tired within the MOE or a slight lead for the beast. And now some outfit nobody has ever heard of comes out a week later and says the beast is up 10% in FL? Come on.
Posted by: Monsieur Moo Moo at June 29, 2016 12:25 PM (0LHZx)
92
The only true blue (?) supporters are Blacks and 2/3rd's women.
But that's more than balance by the White vote and Male vote.
---
Gee, thanks, universal suffrage.
But that's more than balance by the White vote and Male vote.
---
Gee, thanks, universal suffrage.
Posted by: Methos, AoSHQ commenter since 2006, now apparently nonvoting democrat at June 29, 2016 12:25 PM (3Liv/)
93
The MSM is unloading with everything they have against Trump.Clinton is spending a ton of cash to knock out Trump early.If Trump comes out of this initial onslaught still standing he'll win
The MSM is unloading with everything they have against Trump.Clinton is spending a ton of cash to knock out Trump early.If Trump comes out of this initial onslaught still standing he'll win
Posted by: Flawless Male Logic at June 29, 2016 12:25 PM (lKyWE)
94
88 Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That at June 29, 2016 12:24 PM (ECJ+C)
At least Brexit allows us to pronounce it Mah-CROM-ee and not MACK-ruh-may.
At least Brexit allows us to pronounce it Mah-CROM-ee and not MACK-ruh-may.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at June 29, 2016 12:26 PM (p4UlV)
95
83 Funny. That wasn't Limbaugh's take on it in his monologue. He was rather peeved at Gowdy.
Jim Jordan on the other hand was utterly devastating.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at June 29, 2016 12:23 PM (p4UlV)
Rush like controversy and is not always all he is cracked up to be. I quit tuning him in long ago.
Jim Jordan on the other hand was utterly devastating.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at June 29, 2016 12:23 PM (p4UlV)
Rush like controversy and is not always all he is cracked up to be. I quit tuning him in long ago.
Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at June 29, 2016 12:26 PM (mpXpK)
96
Regan trailed Carter 32 to 39 at this point in 1980.
Posted by: fixerupper at June 29, 2016 12:20 PM (8XRCm)
Any parallels between 1980 and today are superficial.
There's nothing to be gleaned from '80 here.
Carter was an incumbent, and a lousy one.
Reagan was a very good public speaker, quick witted, and principled.
Trump is none of those things, and he's running against "an historic first" and the totality of the press.
It is an uphill fight for any R these days running against the press and pop media.
The only thing Trump has going for him is a willingness to fight.
Posted by: fixerupper at June 29, 2016 12:20 PM (8XRCm)
Any parallels between 1980 and today are superficial.
There's nothing to be gleaned from '80 here.
Carter was an incumbent, and a lousy one.
Reagan was a very good public speaker, quick witted, and principled.
Trump is none of those things, and he's running against "an historic first" and the totality of the press.
It is an uphill fight for any R these days running against the press and pop media.
The only thing Trump has going for him is a willingness to fight.
Posted by: OneEyedJack at June 29, 2016 12:26 PM (kKHcp)
97
In other words...Trump is doing as well as Romney and McCain at this point in their campaigns?
Yeah, relax. Trump is doing fine.
In other words...Trump is doing as well as Romney and McCain at this point in their campaigns?
Yeah, relax. Trump is doing fine.
Posted by: M Magoo at June 29, 2016 12:26 PM (dy7qd)
98
If you are going to answer the phone then hint you might vote for Hillary.
My belief is that who ever is elected is going to be good for me and mine. Prayed to God to protect me from harm of any sort.
I think that will be Trump. But I'm not sure. God knows and I am praying for results not personalities.
I'm more worried about Ryan and McConnell than Hilary. Everyone pray that the Government is forced to issue every citizen an M4 or M16, 3 magazines, and 100 rounds of ammo.
And the reason they issue this stuff is so the public servants won't be able to sell them on ebay the way the Jordanians did or have them stolen the way Secretary of State Clinton engineered at Benghazi.
My belief is that who ever is elected is going to be good for me and mine. Prayed to God to protect me from harm of any sort.
I think that will be Trump. But I'm not sure. God knows and I am praying for results not personalities.
I'm more worried about Ryan and McConnell than Hilary. Everyone pray that the Government is forced to issue every citizen an M4 or M16, 3 magazines, and 100 rounds of ammo.
And the reason they issue this stuff is so the public servants won't be able to sell them on ebay the way the Jordanians did or have them stolen the way Secretary of State Clinton engineered at Benghazi.
Posted by: meme at June 29, 2016 12:26 PM (rnH8X)
99
"It's a 2 point deficit, not 4.
42-40
"
You math wizards just like to show off your math smarts, don't you?
42-40
"
You math wizards just like to show off your math smarts, don't you?
Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at June 29, 2016 12:26 PM (ptqRm)
100
39 It's too early to start panicking, don't you think?
A lot could happen between now and the @2nd Tuesday in November.
Posted by: ALH at June 29, 2016 12:13 PM (uLuPn)
But one that that will NOT happen is an indictment of a certain candidate.
A lot could happen between now and the @2nd Tuesday in November.
Posted by: ALH at June 29, 2016 12:13 PM (uLuPn)
But one that that will NOT happen is an indictment of a certain candidate.
Posted by: Drill_Thrawl at June 29, 2016 12:26 PM (Tith9)
101
I also believe voter turnout will be the thing that wins this. This is what I see: enthusiastic Trump supporters and anemic Hillary supporters. I just don't see people standing in line for hours to vote for Hillary. They will for Trump.
Posted by: K-E at June 29, 2016 12:27 PM (NmDhP)
102
National polls do not matter.. not at all.. swing state polls are all that matter at this point.
Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at June 29, 2016 12:24 PM (so+oy)
___
Well Ok technically they don't matter. But they are a good indicator. In 2012, aside from Gallup which had Romney up nationally for a while, Obama led nationally pretty much the entire time as well.
Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at June 29, 2016 12:24 PM (so+oy)
___
Well Ok technically they don't matter. But they are a good indicator. In 2012, aside from Gallup which had Romney up nationally for a while, Obama led nationally pretty much the entire time as well.
Posted by: Monsieur Moo Moo at June 29, 2016 12:27 PM (0LHZx)
103
90 Posted by: Sharkman at June 29, 2016 12:25 PM (CS7jF)
I've got three years on you, so at least you have that going for you as we slouch into the 4th quarter.
Happy returns, old boy!
I've got three years on you, so at least you have that going for you as we slouch into the 4th quarter.
Happy returns, old boy!
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at June 29, 2016 12:27 PM (p4UlV)
104
>>You didn't read that article I posted in the morning news? Trey sure as hell went on Fox and blasted the shit out of Scankles AND Obama over Benghazi.
This happens way too often. If the msm doesn't report something too many assume it didn't happen. Yet the same people rail against the biased msm.
If Gowdy had come out and said that the report showed Hillary personally gave the stand down order, which it didn't but assuming it did, the msm would just say it was a biased Republican report. This is SOP for the msm and the reason they have an approval rating between herpes and ebola.
>>Funny. That wasn't Limbaugh's take on it in his monologue. He was rather peeved at Gowdy.
Just a reminder although I know you know it, Rush is an entertainer not a political analyst and he is quite often wrong when talking about politics.
This happens way too often. If the msm doesn't report something too many assume it didn't happen. Yet the same people rail against the biased msm.
If Gowdy had come out and said that the report showed Hillary personally gave the stand down order, which it didn't but assuming it did, the msm would just say it was a biased Republican report. This is SOP for the msm and the reason they have an approval rating between herpes and ebola.
>>Funny. That wasn't Limbaugh's take on it in his monologue. He was rather peeved at Gowdy.
Just a reminder although I know you know it, Rush is an entertainer not a political analyst and he is quite often wrong when talking about politics.
Posted by: JackStraw at June 29, 2016 12:27 PM (/tuJf)
105
>> Meanwhile, the Democrats mentioned Trump 23 times in their version of the Benghazi report.
Yeah, what on earth had Trump, a private citizen at that time, anything to do with Benghazi? Dems are so damn stupid, and sadly so are 52% of the citizenry.
Yeah, what on earth had Trump, a private citizen at that time, anything to do with Benghazi? Dems are so damn stupid, and sadly so are 52% of the citizenry.
Posted by: IC at June 29, 2016 12:27 PM (a0IVu)
106
You didn't read that article I posted in the morning news? Trey sure as hell went on Fox and blasted the shit out of Scankles AND Obama over Benghazi.
Posted by: Vic We Have No Party
.............
FOX? One news outlet.. ALL the rest are saying: Benghazi report has nothing new.. "no smoking gun".. nothing leading directly to Hillary... in other words, old news.. and ALL the nightly news had the clip of Hillary saying "I think it is time to move on"..
Posted by: Vic We Have No Party
.............
FOX? One news outlet.. ALL the rest are saying: Benghazi report has nothing new.. "no smoking gun".. nothing leading directly to Hillary... in other words, old news.. and ALL the nightly news had the clip of Hillary saying "I think it is time to move on"..
Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at June 29, 2016 12:28 PM (so+oy)
107
95 Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at June 29, 2016 12:26 PM (mpXpK)
Rush notwithstanding, I really do hope Trump latches onto this from now through November.
Rush notwithstanding, I really do hope Trump latches onto this from now through November.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at June 29, 2016 12:28 PM (p4UlV)
108
My Pollack friend told me over a bowl of polenta that the polls about the Poles wanting to pull a Polexit don't have much pull with Poles and are viewed as polemic. He's bipolar though, so his thinking may be polluted.
Posted by: ajmojo at June 29, 2016 12:28 PM (1H9ox)
109
Rush is right pretty much right all the time.
Rush is right pretty much right all the time.
Posted by: M Magoo at June 29, 2016 12:29 PM (dy7qd)
110
Trump is going to lose and lose big. He will get the portion of the electorate that always votes GOP, but he is going to get hammered in the swing states with the voters who sit on the fence.
He alienates pretty much everyone, including conservatives who have no other choice. Why? Because he's a dipshit who spouts off at the drop of the hat with no strategic goal in mind other than self-promotion. He has no domestic policy goals, no foreign policy goals, and no political philosophy. And when he does manage to announce some political goal or belief, it is usually going against something he said in the past. Usually within the last 24-36 hours.
At this point, I think his campaign is just one big Potemkin Village brought to us by the Clintons.
He alienates pretty much everyone, including conservatives who have no other choice. Why? Because he's a dipshit who spouts off at the drop of the hat with no strategic goal in mind other than self-promotion. He has no domestic policy goals, no foreign policy goals, and no political philosophy. And when he does manage to announce some political goal or belief, it is usually going against something he said in the past. Usually within the last 24-36 hours.
At this point, I think his campaign is just one big Potemkin Village brought to us by the Clintons.
Posted by: MacGruber at June 29, 2016 12:29 PM (sgrzZ)
Posted by: Bandersnatch at June 29, 2016 12:29 PM (1xUj/)
112
A 4-point deficit is pretty good considering non-stop press denigrating him and his supporters as worse than Hitler, combined with a large chunk of his party actively undermining him. If the party actually put aside its differences and united behind him (and fought crap with even half Trump's energy) he'd be ahead. Even with all the support she gets, Hillary is floundering. It's amazing.
Posted by: Grimaldi at June 29, 2016 12:29 PM (pANPl)
113
104 Just a reminder although I know you know it, Rush is an entertainer not a political analyst and he is quite often wrong when talking about politics.
Posted by: JackStraw at June 29, 2016 12:27 PM (/tuJf)
Really? I find that he's incredibly accurate and prescient. If he weren't, he would have been done a very long time ago. And he is entertaining.
Posted by: JackStraw at June 29, 2016 12:27 PM (/tuJf)
Really? I find that he's incredibly accurate and prescient. If he weren't, he would have been done a very long time ago. And he is entertaining.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at June 29, 2016 12:29 PM (p4UlV)
114
You assume the cities are 100% for Hillary!, Brother Cavil. I know many people in Philly, both blue collar union and gay, who are on the Trump train. Who were never on the Romney or McCain train.
Posted by: Chupacabra at June 29, 2016 12:29 PM (V40IZ)
115
You can't write off Trump's chances.
He's not the guy I wanted to go to battle with, but that's who we got.
A lot of people on "our side" that have aligned themselves with Hillary because they're still pissed want to keep up this drumbeat of "Trump loses big!" when all the poll show this to be a pretty standard "jump ball" election.
He's not the guy I wanted to go to battle with, but that's who we got.
A lot of people on "our side" that have aligned themselves with Hillary because they're still pissed want to keep up this drumbeat of "Trump loses big!" when all the poll show this to be a pretty standard "jump ball" election.
Posted by: Maritime at June 29, 2016 12:30 PM (3bOpa)
116
Don't you get it? Hillary's gonna win, and we'll all shipped off to the camps and forced to do macrame.
Posted by: Panic Monkey at June 29, 2016 12:22 PM (4WhSY)
Ugh I'm a terrible dancer.
Posted by: Panic Monkey at June 29, 2016 12:22 PM (4WhSY)
Ugh I'm a terrible dancer.
Posted by: Ghost of kari - certified sidebar at June 29, 2016 12:30 PM (wOKJp)
117
Look at it this way, Obama, whether YOU like him or not, had some likability that was reflected in actual votes.
Trump, whether YOU like him or not, has some likability that has been reflected in actual votes, in tv show popularity, and as a cultural icon for decades now.
Hillory is about as likeable as Walder Frey. She's feared, but good grief, NOBODY actually likes her.
Trump, whether YOU like him or not, has some likability that has been reflected in actual votes, in tv show popularity, and as a cultural icon for decades now.
Hillory is about as likeable as Walder Frey. She's feared, but good grief, NOBODY actually likes her.
Posted by: BurtTC at June 29, 2016 12:30 PM (TOk1P)
118
106 FOX? One news outlet.. ALL the rest are saying:
Benghazi report has nothing new.. "no smoking gun".. nothing leading
directly to Hillary... in other words, old news.. and ALL the nightly
news had the clip of Hillary saying "I think it is time to move on"..
Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at June 29, 2016 12:28 PM (so+oy)
Those are exactly the Dem talking points and the MFM is glad to publish them unedited.
Benghazi report has nothing new.. "no smoking gun".. nothing leading
directly to Hillary... in other words, old news.. and ALL the nightly
news had the clip of Hillary saying "I think it is time to move on"..
Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at June 29, 2016 12:28 PM (so+oy)
Those are exactly the Dem talking points and the MFM is glad to publish them unedited.
Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at June 29, 2016 12:30 PM (mpXpK)
119
96Posted by: OneEyedJack at June 29, 2016 12:26 PM (kKHcp)
==============
Reagan also ran agaisnt the press and pop media, plus the GOPe.
As R's, we'll never get a fair shake in the media, unless it's someone like katchitz.
==============
Reagan also ran agaisnt the press and pop media, plus the GOPe.
As R's, we'll never get a fair shake in the media, unless it's someone like katchitz.
Posted by: willy at June 29, 2016 12:30 PM (Ffw22)
120
58 Once NRA starts showing Hillary! himming and hawing whether guns are an individual right or not, you're going to see magic in PA.
I've met quite a few old farmers that are big on the Clinton train, with no idea that she was running to the left of Bernie on guns.
Posted by: Chupacabra at June 29, 2016 12:16 PM (V40IZ)
Depending on the year, PA (not that Penny BS Ace) fields the 3rd to 5th largest military in the world during the first week of December.
I've met quite a few old farmers that are big on the Clinton train, with no idea that she was running to the left of Bernie on guns.
Posted by: Chupacabra at June 29, 2016 12:16 PM (V40IZ)
Depending on the year, PA (not that Penny BS Ace) fields the 3rd to 5th largest military in the world during the first week of December.
Posted by: Drill_Thrawl at June 29, 2016 12:31 PM (Tith9)
121
Don't forget that in the primary, the Media was looking for headlines so Trump really didn't get their full on Democrat mode.
Now that the primaries are done it will be negative stuff about Trump as often and as bad as they can make it. They're dredging stuff up from 20 years ago and then lying about that.
(gee, wonder where they got that idea?)
And it doesn't help all the negatives by so called conservatives and the Republican so called leadership dissing Trump and jumping on stuff he's said just like the liberal victim orientated politically correct press. The "leadership" are either cowards or they believe the same stuff that the liberals do. Either way they're trying to stay on the side of the media because all they care about is their jobs and perks and parties. (after dinner not political)
Trump may have the answer or something may happen that is a game changer.
Thanks to the feckless cowards in the House, Hillary's off scott free as a bird and won't be stopped for her crimes and fraud.
Way to go Gowdy and Issa.
Now that the primaries are done it will be negative stuff about Trump as often and as bad as they can make it. They're dredging stuff up from 20 years ago and then lying about that.
(gee, wonder where they got that idea?)
And it doesn't help all the negatives by so called conservatives and the Republican so called leadership dissing Trump and jumping on stuff he's said just like the liberal victim orientated politically correct press. The "leadership" are either cowards or they believe the same stuff that the liberals do. Either way they're trying to stay on the side of the media because all they care about is their jobs and perks and parties. (after dinner not political)
Trump may have the answer or something may happen that is a game changer.
Thanks to the feckless cowards in the House, Hillary's off scott free as a bird and won't be stopped for her crimes and fraud.
Way to go Gowdy and Issa.
Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That at June 29, 2016 12:31 PM (ECJ+C)
122
I should just type up this and paste it in every time.
They're doing 109213 polls. Every one of them tells something different. Some are up, some are down. Some are clearly trash, heavily oversampling Democrats, some are just nonsense. It doesn't really even matter. Even if polling for the last, what eight major worldwide elections had not been way off -- far beyond the margin of error -- its freaking June. The polls are utterly without any meaning or significance. Zero.
Even the pundits who love and go by polls and fixate on them admit that they are utterly trash until right up into around September or later.
I guess its an easy blog post but this is like talking about damned Astrology or tea leaves.
They're doing 109213 polls. Every one of them tells something different. Some are up, some are down. Some are clearly trash, heavily oversampling Democrats, some are just nonsense. It doesn't really even matter. Even if polling for the last, what eight major worldwide elections had not been way off -- far beyond the margin of error -- its freaking June. The polls are utterly without any meaning or significance. Zero.
Even the pundits who love and go by polls and fixate on them admit that they are utterly trash until right up into around September or later.
I guess its an easy blog post but this is like talking about damned Astrology or tea leaves.
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at June 29, 2016 12:31 PM (39g3+)
123
95, Rush is excellent at clarifying things and is--when you get right down to it--a devastating media critic. He is passionate and articulate and honest.
He is weak when it comes to tactics and strategy.
Remember Operation Chaos?
He is weak when it comes to tactics and strategy.
Remember Operation Chaos?
Posted by: JoeF. at June 29, 2016 12:31 PM (KLTo2)
124
109
Rush is right pretty much right all the time.
Posted by: M Magoo at June 29, 2016 12:29 PM (dy7qd)
BS
Rush is right pretty much right all the time.
Posted by: M Magoo at June 29, 2016 12:29 PM (dy7qd)
BS
Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at June 29, 2016 12:31 PM (mpXpK)
125
84 Yes, I am happy right now. When you look at direct QA in these polls, Trump beats Hillary by a mile. You cannot tell me this won't translate to votes in the fall. From the Quinnipiac poll:
1) 52% think Trump would be better at creating jobs (40% Hillary)
2) 52% think Trump would be more effective at handling ISIS (39% Hillary)
What do most people vote on in national elections? Economy first. Security second. When people get into that voting booth, that is what they are going to be thinking about: their own economic situation and their own safety.
Posted by: K-E at June 29, 2016 12:24 PM (NmDhP)
In 2012 the big question that broke for oamama was "Who cares more about people like me?" Who will that be this time? Hard to say.
1) 52% think Trump would be better at creating jobs (40% Hillary)
2) 52% think Trump would be more effective at handling ISIS (39% Hillary)
What do most people vote on in national elections? Economy first. Security second. When people get into that voting booth, that is what they are going to be thinking about: their own economic situation and their own safety.
Posted by: K-E at June 29, 2016 12:24 PM (NmDhP)
In 2012 the big question that broke for oamama was "Who cares more about people like me?" Who will that be this time? Hard to say.
Posted by: josephistan at June 29, 2016 12:31 PM (7HtZB)
126
"He has no domestic
policy goals, no foreign policy goals, and no political philosophy. And
when he does manage to announce some political goal or belief, it is
usually going against something he said in the past. Usually within the
last 24-36 hours."
I'm guessing you didn't bother to listen to his economic speech yesterday with LOTS of detail and policy? That completely backed up his views since the '80s? Might want to stop spouting off your crap for a minute and actually listen what Trump has to say once in awhile.
"He has no domestic
policy goals, no foreign policy goals, and no political philosophy. And
when he does manage to announce some political goal or belief, it is
usually going against something he said in the past. Usually within the
last 24-36 hours."
I'm guessing you didn't bother to listen to his economic speech yesterday with LOTS of detail and policy? That completely backed up his views since the '80s? Might want to stop spouting off your crap for a minute and actually listen what Trump has to say once in awhile.
Posted by: K-E at June 29, 2016 12:31 PM (NmDhP)
127
114
I hope you know a lot of them because most Philly precincts will be voting for Clinton, somewhere between 99-102%.
I hope you know a lot of them because most Philly precincts will be voting for Clinton, somewhere between 99-102%.
Posted by: MacGruber at June 29, 2016 12:31 PM (sgrzZ)
128
FWIW polls from around this time in 2004
ARG 71 - 7/3 Kerry +3
NBC 7/6 Kerry +8
CNN 7/8 - 7/11 Kerry +5
Final score
Bush +3
ARG 71 - 7/3 Kerry +3
NBC 7/6 Kerry +8
CNN 7/8 - 7/11 Kerry +5
Final score
Bush +3
Posted by: Monsieur Moo Moo at June 29, 2016 12:31 PM (0LHZx)
129
"Your numbers are wrong. It's Clinton 42 Trump 40. It's, like, right in the first paragraph of the linked article and everything. 45-41 was the June 1 poll. He's moving in the right direction."
Changes over time in a repeated poll can give an accurate assessment of momentum, even if the poll has some flaws.
So the Q poll shows Trump gaining a bit in June, which MSM has been telling us was a horrible month for Trump.
Changes over time in a repeated poll can give an accurate assessment of momentum, even if the poll has some flaws.
So the Q poll shows Trump gaining a bit in June, which MSM has been telling us was a horrible month for Trump.
Posted by: Ignoramus at June 29, 2016 12:32 PM (r1fLd)
130
BOO!
Posted by: BIG SCARY POLLS at June 29, 2016 12:32 PM (wOKJp)
131
>>Really? I find that he's incredibly accurate and prescient. If he weren't, he would have been done a very long time ago. And he is entertaining.
One of Rush's core lines that he has been using for years is that Conservatism wins whenever people are given it as an alternative.
We had a choice of Trump or Cruz in the Republican primary. Trump won.
He's a smart guy and good at preaching to the converted but he is not the Oracle. He's just a guy who talks politics.
One of Rush's core lines that he has been using for years is that Conservatism wins whenever people are given it as an alternative.
We had a choice of Trump or Cruz in the Republican primary. Trump won.
He's a smart guy and good at preaching to the converted but he is not the Oracle. He's just a guy who talks politics.
Posted by: JackStraw at June 29, 2016 12:33 PM (/tuJf)
132
Looking at 2004, Kerry led in pretty much every poll in July and August.
Posted by: Monsieur Moo Moo at June 29, 2016 12:33 PM (0LHZx)
133
At this point, I think his campaign is just one big Potemkin Village brought to us by the Clintons.
Posted by: MacGruber
..........
That phone call from Bill Clinton to Trump just before Trump jumped in looms pretty large now, doesn't it?
Trump is not even willing to spend much of his own money and only started a lackluster fundraising campaign in recent weeks.
Why? Does he sound or act like someone who wants to win the presidency?
Posted by: MacGruber
..........
That phone call from Bill Clinton to Trump just before Trump jumped in looms pretty large now, doesn't it?
Trump is not even willing to spend much of his own money and only started a lackluster fundraising campaign in recent weeks.
Why? Does he sound or act like someone who wants to win the presidency?
Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at June 29, 2016 12:33 PM (so+oy)
134
114--what's left of the "white working class" in the big cities loves Trump. But their votes are more than rendered meaningless by teh massive black vote.
Posted by: JoeF. at June 29, 2016 12:33 PM (KLTo2)
135
Fucking Polls.
Posted by: a atripper at June 29, 2016 12:33 PM (hNICT)
136
July of [Insert Election Year Here]: "Hey baby! Treat me right and you can get some of this!" [Shakes ass provocatively]
Election Day of [Insert Election Year Here]: "The Democrats got me some sweet, sweet government bennies hon, so no vote for you!" [Laughs and points at GOP chumps]
Election Day of [Insert Election Year Here]: "The Democrats got me some sweet, sweet government bennies hon, so no vote for you!" [Laughs and points at GOP chumps]
Posted by: Pennsylvania, That Fuggin' Ho at June 29, 2016 12:33 PM (mBYZv)
137
As R's, we'll never get a fair shake in the media, unless it's someone like katchitz.
Posted by: willy at June 29, 2016 12:30 PM (Ffw22)
----
Oh... the press would love Katshitz.... right up to the point he became "REPUBLICAN NOMINEE".
See also John MAVERICK McCain.
Posted by: willy at June 29, 2016 12:30 PM (Ffw22)
----
Oh... the press would love Katshitz.... right up to the point he became "REPUBLICAN NOMINEE".
See also John MAVERICK McCain.
Posted by: fixerupper at June 29, 2016 12:33 PM (8XRCm)
138
Barack Obama:
"I have no domestic policy goals, no foreign policy goals, and no political philosophy. And
when I does manage to announce some political goal or belief, it is usually something some communist asshole just whispered in my ear. Usually within the
last 24-36 hours.
But enough about me. What do you think about me?"
"I have no domestic policy goals, no foreign policy goals, and no political philosophy. And
when I does manage to announce some political goal or belief, it is usually something some communist asshole just whispered in my ear. Usually within the
last 24-36 hours.
But enough about me. What do you think about me?"
Posted by: Sharkman at June 29, 2016 12:34 PM (CS7jF)
139
Vanessa Hudgens, who I never heard of, has culturally appropriated a Native American Indian Dreamcatcher by wearing it in her hair.
Posted by: Gary Wright at June 29, 2016 12:34 PM (DWzzU)
140
>>>What do most people vote on in national elections? Economy first.
Which is why Obama is now downplaying significance of Brexit. Europeans are screaming about an economic meltdown, Venezuela actually is in one, but here in America the media must keep painting a happy picture... Or else Trump might win.
Which is why Obama is now downplaying significance of Brexit. Europeans are screaming about an economic meltdown, Venezuela actually is in one, but here in America the media must keep painting a happy picture... Or else Trump might win.
Posted by: wooga at June 29, 2016 12:34 PM (DPbdz)
141
I'm guessing you didn't bother to listen to his economic speech yesterday with LOTS of detail and policy? That completely backed up his views since the '80s? Might want to stop spouting off your crap for a minute and actually listen what Trump has to say once in awhile.
Posted by: K-E at June 29, 2016 12:31 PM (NmDhP)
He's so aesthetically revolting.
Posted by: K-E at June 29, 2016 12:31 PM (NmDhP)
He's so aesthetically revolting.
Posted by: Ghost of kari - certified sidebar at June 29, 2016 12:34 PM (wOKJp)
142
"Trump is none of those things"
Trump isn't quick witted?
Trump isn't an effective speaker?
I think Trump just doesn't say what you want him to say.
Trump is running in a time where the average voter would have been called a freeloader in 1980 terms.
Reagan picked George H.W. Bush to be his running mate and effectively got the no-new-liar compassionate-conservatism socialist CIA man elected.
Where have all the manufacturing jobs gone?
Sent to Mexico and China by NWO...
When will they ever learn...
Trump isn't quick witted?
Trump isn't an effective speaker?
I think Trump just doesn't say what you want him to say.
Trump is running in a time where the average voter would have been called a freeloader in 1980 terms.
Reagan picked George H.W. Bush to be his running mate and effectively got the no-new-liar compassionate-conservatism socialist CIA man elected.
Where have all the manufacturing jobs gone?
Sent to Mexico and China by NWO...
When will they ever learn...
Posted by: meme at June 29, 2016 12:34 PM (rnH8X)
143
"Meanwhile, the Democrats mentioned Trump 23 times in their version of the Benghazi report."
Trump could get huge mileage out of that if he played it adroitly.
Trump could get huge mileage out of that if he played it adroitly.
Posted by: torquewrench at June 29, 2016 12:35 PM (noWW6)
144
193 Remember Operation Chaos?
Posted by: JoeF. at June 29, 2016 12:31 PM (KLTo2)
You forget that our candidate was McStains. I think if Teh Fred (pbuh) had been the candidate, it might have actually worked. We'll never know.
Anyway, every election season is different, parallels notwithstanding.
Posted by: JoeF. at June 29, 2016 12:31 PM (KLTo2)
You forget that our candidate was McStains. I think if Teh Fred (pbuh) had been the candidate, it might have actually worked. We'll never know.
Anyway, every election season is different, parallels notwithstanding.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at June 29, 2016 12:35 PM (p4UlV)
145
That phone call from Bill Clinton to Trump just before Trump jumped in looms pretty large now, doesn't it?
Trump is not even willing to spend much of his own money and only started a lackluster fundraising campaign in recent weeks.
Why? Does he sound or act like someone who wants to win the presidency?
Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at June 29, 2016 12:33 PM (so+oy)
You haven't changed your tune since 2015 dude.
We have a fighting chance.
Breathe.
Trump is not even willing to spend much of his own money and only started a lackluster fundraising campaign in recent weeks.
Why? Does he sound or act like someone who wants to win the presidency?
Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at June 29, 2016 12:33 PM (so+oy)
You haven't changed your tune since 2015 dude.
We have a fighting chance.
Breathe.
Posted by: Ghost of kari - certified sidebar at June 29, 2016 12:35 PM (wOKJp)
146
FWIW polls from around this time in 2004
ARG 71 - 7/3 Kerry +3
NBC 7/6 Kerry +8
CNN 7/8 - 7/11 Kerry +5
Final score
Bush +3
Posted by: Monsieur Moo Moo at June 29, 2016 12:31 PM (0LHZx)
-----
Why.... its almost as if all these pollsters are *trying* to get the R voters to go all "oh noes all is lost".
***scans thread**
It appears to be working.
ARG 71 - 7/3 Kerry +3
NBC 7/6 Kerry +8
CNN 7/8 - 7/11 Kerry +5
Final score
Bush +3
Posted by: Monsieur Moo Moo at June 29, 2016 12:31 PM (0LHZx)
-----
Why.... its almost as if all these pollsters are *trying* to get the R voters to go all "oh noes all is lost".
***scans thread**
It appears to be working.
Posted by: fixerupper at June 29, 2016 12:35 PM (8XRCm)
147
In 2012 the big question that broke for oamama was "Who cares more about people like me?" Who will that be this time? Hard to say.
Trump could close the deal right damn now by panning a camera around his family and his domicile with the voiceover, "I'm rich, happy, and famous. I want all of you to be able to have what I have! Vote for me!"
It wouldn't even be close.
Trump could close the deal right damn now by panning a camera around his family and his domicile with the voiceover, "I'm rich, happy, and famous. I want all of you to be able to have what I have! Vote for me!"
It wouldn't even be close.
Posted by: Brother Cavil at June 29, 2016 12:35 PM (9krrF)
148
That phone call from Bill Clinton to Trump just before Trump jumped in looms pretty large now, doesn't it?
---
Please stop
---
Please stop
Posted by: the sore-assed chicken at June 29, 2016 12:36 PM (3Liv/)
149
Fucking Polls.
Posted by: a atripper at June 29, 2016 12:33 PM (hNICT)
Well, there's your problem. You're clumsy
Posted by: a atripper at June 29, 2016 12:33 PM (hNICT)
Well, there's your problem. You're clumsy
Posted by: OneEyedJack at June 29, 2016 12:36 PM (kKHcp)
150
If Trump goes into Election Night down 3-4 points, I could easily see him winning.
He's the most "radioactive" candidate in my lifetime and people are embarassed to say they support him. There's also an incredible amount of enthusiasm for his candidacy that's not on Hillary's side.
Just like Brexit swung several points from polls to actual votes because wanting to leave the EU was perceived as xenophobic, I think Trump's support is much greater than the polls indicate.
He's the most "radioactive" candidate in my lifetime and people are embarassed to say they support him. There's also an incredible amount of enthusiasm for his candidacy that's not on Hillary's side.
Just like Brexit swung several points from polls to actual votes because wanting to leave the EU was perceived as xenophobic, I think Trump's support is much greater than the polls indicate.
Posted by: Maritime at June 29, 2016 12:36 PM (3bOpa)
Posted by: meme at June 29, 2016 12:36 PM (rnH8X)
152
121
Way to go Gowdy and Issa.
Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That at June 29, 2016 12:31 PM (ECJ+C)
THIS.
And Boehner for dragging his ass for months on this.
Way to go Gowdy and Issa.
Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That at June 29, 2016 12:31 PM (ECJ+C)
THIS.
And Boehner for dragging his ass for months on this.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at June 29, 2016 12:36 PM (p4UlV)
153
137 Posted by: fixerupper at June 29, 2016 12:33 PM (8XRCm)
==============
He got the nom and the long knives came out.
==============
He got the nom and the long knives came out.
Posted by: willy at June 29, 2016 12:36 PM (Ffw22)
154
Trump is not even willing to spend much of his own money and only started a lackluster fundraising campaign in recent weeks.
Why?
Because he's living rent free in everyone's head 24/7.
That's why.
Why?
Because he's living rent free in everyone's head 24/7.
That's why.
Posted by: rickb223 TEXIT at June 29, 2016 12:36 PM (kWQPe)
155
You know, I'm trying to give you guys some good fucking news about what I'm seeing on the ground and you just can't stop rending your shirts.
Posted by: Chupacabra at June 29, 2016 12:37 PM (V40IZ)
156
143 "Meanwhile, the Democrats mentioned Trump 23 times in their version of the Benghazi report."
Trump could get huge mileage out of that if he played it adroitly.
Posted by: torquewrench at June 29, 2016 12:35 PM (noWW6)
He needs to do with this what he did at the NYC presser last week. Every day until November.
Trump could get huge mileage out of that if he played it adroitly.
Posted by: torquewrench at June 29, 2016 12:35 PM (noWW6)
He needs to do with this what he did at the NYC presser last week. Every day until November.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at June 29, 2016 12:37 PM (p4UlV)
157
That phone call from Bill Clinton to Trump just before Trump jumped in looms pretty large now, doesn't it?
_________________
Yea, I'm sure Bill Clinton LOVES having a Republican candidate call him a rapist, compare him to Bill Cosby, and bring up Juanita Broderick.
_________________
Yea, I'm sure Bill Clinton LOVES having a Republican candidate call him a rapist, compare him to Bill Cosby, and bring up Juanita Broderick.
Posted by: Maritime at June 29, 2016 12:37 PM (3bOpa)
158
As much as I dislike Trump, I have to say that this does not really surprise or disquiet me.
Hillary may show some lead between 2-6%. And this is after a VAST amount of money has been spent by her in ads.
Trump has spent nothing on media outlays.
I cannot say I understand his strategy (maybe keeping his powder dry for closer to the election, maybe believing that the more people see of Hillary!the less they will like her. I dunno.)
I would also point out that perhaps he is waiting to start spending huge amounts of money to wait until after the convention, being cognizant of someone trying some chicanery there.
Hillary may show some lead between 2-6%. And this is after a VAST amount of money has been spent by her in ads.
Trump has spent nothing on media outlays.
I cannot say I understand his strategy (maybe keeping his powder dry for closer to the election, maybe believing that the more people see of Hillary!the less they will like her. I dunno.)
I would also point out that perhaps he is waiting to start spending huge amounts of money to wait until after the convention, being cognizant of someone trying some chicanery there.
Posted by: Aetius451AD at June 29, 2016 12:37 PM (3ZoRf)
159
Trump does not need to spend on media.
Trump is his own media.
Every penny he raises needs to go into GOTV.
Trump is his own media.
Every penny he raises needs to go into GOTV.
Posted by: Ghost of kari - certified sidebar at June 29, 2016 12:39 PM (wOKJp)
160
126
Which details and policy? Like Trump shifting from pro-free trade to anti-free trade? Trump's trade "policy" was lambasted from every side, Democratic and Republican, from groups like the Chamber of Commerce to the National Association of Manufacturers.
What about his view on abortion? Still kinda for it, without really saying? Still thinks his pro-choice sister would make a great addition to SCOTUS?
How about guns? Did he convince the NRA to back restrictions on terror watch list names from buying firearms?
Of course, Trump is just bullshitting since all the crap he sells with his name on it is made in third world countries. If he really believe the crap he's peddling, he'd be making those items in the US.
Which details and policy? Like Trump shifting from pro-free trade to anti-free trade? Trump's trade "policy" was lambasted from every side, Democratic and Republican, from groups like the Chamber of Commerce to the National Association of Manufacturers.
What about his view on abortion? Still kinda for it, without really saying? Still thinks his pro-choice sister would make a great addition to SCOTUS?
How about guns? Did he convince the NRA to back restrictions on terror watch list names from buying firearms?
Of course, Trump is just bullshitting since all the crap he sells with his name on it is made in third world countries. If he really believe the crap he's peddling, he'd be making those items in the US.
Posted by: MacGruber at June 29, 2016 12:39 PM (sgrzZ)
161
25
No other Republican would be doing better.
Posted by: M Magoo at June 29, 2016 12:10 PM (dy7qd)
---------------------
Well, outside of Jeb!!!, all of the top GOP candidates polled better with the general electorate than Trump did.
But there's no point in arguing hypotheticals.
We're stuck with the scalp weasel.
No other Republican would be doing better.
Posted by: M Magoo at June 29, 2016 12:10 PM (dy7qd)
---------------------
Well, outside of Jeb!!!, all of the top GOP candidates polled better with the general electorate than Trump did.
But there's no point in arguing hypotheticals.
We're stuck with the scalp weasel.
Posted by: Margarita DeVille at June 29, 2016 12:39 PM (T/5A0)
162
"It would be nice though if Trump started spending for some ads in battleground states."
They also serve who stand and wait.
They also serve who stand and wait.
Posted by: John Milton at June 29, 2016 12:39 PM (rnH8X)
163
In 2000 polls in the summer were showing YUUUGE Bush win. Several national polls had him double digits over Gore.
Final score: Gore won the popular vote.
Just some perspective.
Final score: Gore won the popular vote.
Just some perspective.
Posted by: Monsieur Moo Moo at June 29, 2016 12:39 PM (0LHZx)
164
"I'm guessing you didn't bother to listen to his economic speech yesterday with LOTS of detail and policy?"
I didn't listen to the speech and so have no idea how well delivered it was.
However, I did read it. It was well written and punchy.
And the hand across the aisle to Bernie Sanders supporters? Artful.
Now if he can just manage to maintain that discipline, stay on message, and not blurt out poorly phrased off the cuff comments, as has been such a problem in the past.
I didn't listen to the speech and so have no idea how well delivered it was.
However, I did read it. It was well written and punchy.
And the hand across the aisle to Bernie Sanders supporters? Artful.
Now if he can just manage to maintain that discipline, stay on message, and not blurt out poorly phrased off the cuff comments, as has been such a problem in the past.
Posted by: torquewrench at June 29, 2016 12:40 PM (noWW6)
165
Trump gave a detailed policy speech yesterday. He was wrong about everything.
Free trade works better. Protectionism hurts the protectionist side.
And no, it doesn't matter if the other side has tariffs, that's the other side hurting itself. If they pay their workers next to nothing or pollute their environment, these are things we can't police.
The best thing for us is as much free trade as possible. Trump went all in for protectionism and trade wars.
Free trade works better. Protectionism hurts the protectionist side.
And no, it doesn't matter if the other side has tariffs, that's the other side hurting itself. If they pay their workers next to nothing or pollute their environment, these are things we can't police.
The best thing for us is as much free trade as possible. Trump went all in for protectionism and trade wars.
Posted by: Bandersnatch at June 29, 2016 12:40 PM (1xUj/)
166
>>I would also point out that perhaps he is waiting to start spending huge amounts of money to wait until after the convention, being cognizant of someone trying some chicanery there.
He doesn't have any money. Whether he thought he wouldn't need any or he never thought he would win, who knows. Well, I suppose Corey knows which might explain why he is now an analyst on CNN.
He better get busy, the fall will be here before you know it.
He doesn't have any money. Whether he thought he wouldn't need any or he never thought he would win, who knows. Well, I suppose Corey knows which might explain why he is now an analyst on CNN.
He better get busy, the fall will be here before you know it.
Posted by: JackStraw at June 29, 2016 12:40 PM (/tuJf)
167
163 In 2000 polls in the summer were showing YUUUGE Bush win. Several national polls had him double digits over Gore.
Final score: Gore won the popular vote.
Just some perspective.
Posted by: Monsieur Moo Moo at June 29, 2016 12:39 PM (0LHZx)
Didn't the news of Dubya's DUI have something to do with the last minute poll dip?
Final score: Gore won the popular vote.
Just some perspective.
Posted by: Monsieur Moo Moo at June 29, 2016 12:39 PM (0LHZx)
Didn't the news of Dubya's DUI have something to do with the last minute poll dip?
Posted by: Gran at June 29, 2016 12:40 PM (XIXhw)
168
Meh. Brexit was getting its ass handed to it in the polls.
Posted by: RWC - Team BOHICA at June 29, 2016 12:40 PM (/CXhS)
169
These "conservatives" that keep wanting to tell us Trump loses big to Hillary (without any polling evidence) what exactly is your goal?
Is it to just give up this election altogether? Would Trump conceding to Hillary now make you feel better?
I'm honestly asking.
Is it to just give up this election altogether? Would Trump conceding to Hillary now make you feel better?
I'm honestly asking.
Posted by: Maritime at June 29, 2016 12:41 PM (3bOpa)
170
Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at June 29, 2016 12:33 PM (so+oy)
Keep whipping that dead horse if you must but its never going to get up and run.
Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at June 29, 2016 12:33 PM (so+oy)
Keep whipping that dead horse if you must but its never going to get up and run.
Posted by: Flawless Male Logic at June 29, 2016 12:41 PM (lKyWE)
Posted by: Bigbys Cellphone at June 29, 2016 12:41 PM (TaJ8L)
172
Well, outside of Jeb!!!, all of the top GOP candidates polled better with the general electorate than Trump did.
Next time? Get them to vote in the primary and show us they really mean it.
Not showing up for the primary kinda tells me they ain't really serious about showing up for the general.
Next time? Get them to vote in the primary and show us they really mean it.
Not showing up for the primary kinda tells me they ain't really serious about showing up for the general.
Posted by: rickb223 TEXIT at June 29, 2016 12:41 PM (kWQPe)
173
Hey Chi-town Jerry
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUW2-MUonbo
Watch that and tell me Trump's a Clinton plant.
Here's the transcript since you're too put-off aesthetically by Donald Trump to watch the video:
http://politi.co/28NdN65
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUW2-MUonbo
Watch that and tell me Trump's a Clinton plant.
Here's the transcript since you're too put-off aesthetically by Donald Trump to watch the video:
http://politi.co/28NdN65
Posted by: Ghost of kari - certified sidebar at June 29, 2016 12:42 PM (wOKJp)
174
So not reading the article has moved from the comments up to the main posts.
Trump is down 42-40. Last month in this poll he was down 45-41. This is what some people might describe as an improvement in his position.
This is also the first poll in a while that didn't oversample Dems by 10 points. Shockingly, it shows Trump doing better by 10 points than those other polls.
Maybe take a deep breath and hold off on the panic? Or do you turn off the football game in disgust when your team is down 14-10 at halftime?
Trump is down 42-40. Last month in this poll he was down 45-41. This is what some people might describe as an improvement in his position.
This is also the first poll in a while that didn't oversample Dems by 10 points. Shockingly, it shows Trump doing better by 10 points than those other polls.
Maybe take a deep breath and hold off on the panic? Or do you turn off the football game in disgust when your team is down 14-10 at halftime?
Posted by: Jake (not officially a regular) at June 29, 2016 12:42 PM (1BdMd)
175
One of Rush's core lines that he has been using for years is that Conservatism wins whenever people are given it as an alternative.
We had a choice of Trump or Cruz in the Republican primary. Trump won.
He's a smart guy and good at preaching to the converted but he is not the Oracle. He's just a guy who talks politics.
Posted by: JackStraw at June 29, 2016 12:33 PM (/tuJf)
All the kings horses and all the kings conservatism couldn't make Ted Cruz likeable.
Sorry, that's just the m-fing truth. And in the end, Cruz managed to do VERY well, in spite of himself, and his real inability to ARTICULATE his so-called conservatism.
We had a choice of Trump or Cruz in the Republican primary. Trump won.
He's a smart guy and good at preaching to the converted but he is not the Oracle. He's just a guy who talks politics.
Posted by: JackStraw at June 29, 2016 12:33 PM (/tuJf)
All the kings horses and all the kings conservatism couldn't make Ted Cruz likeable.
Sorry, that's just the m-fing truth. And in the end, Cruz managed to do VERY well, in spite of himself, and his real inability to ARTICULATE his so-called conservatism.
Posted by: BurtTC at June 29, 2016 12:42 PM (TOk1P)
176
I've seen more cheer in a graveyard.
Posted by: Gimli at June 29, 2016 12:42 PM (XVTvT)
177
Trump isn't quick witted?
Trump isn't an effective speaker?
-meme-
Okay, how about this? He isn't eloquent. He does eventually get his point across, but his sound bites are one half positive, one half negative enough to need clarifying later.
He is who he is, and it's not all negative, but comparisons to Reagan are silly.
Trump isn't an effective speaker?
-meme-
Okay, how about this? He isn't eloquent. He does eventually get his point across, but his sound bites are one half positive, one half negative enough to need clarifying later.
He is who he is, and it's not all negative, but comparisons to Reagan are silly.
Posted by: OneEyedJack at June 29, 2016 12:42 PM (kKHcp)
178
Didn't the news of Dubya's DUI have something to do with the last minute poll dip?
Posted by: Gran
That, and also Gore's team had a better ground game than Bush did.
In 2004, Bush's ground game absolutely kicked ass. We lost the independent vote to Kerry but still won.
Had the 2004 Republicans showed up in 2012, Obama would have easily lost.
Posted by: Gran
That, and also Gore's team had a better ground game than Bush did.
In 2004, Bush's ground game absolutely kicked ass. We lost the independent vote to Kerry but still won.
Had the 2004 Republicans showed up in 2012, Obama would have easily lost.
Posted by: Maritime at June 29, 2016 12:43 PM (3bOpa)
179
If all the other R's polled better in the general, why did Trump CRUSH all of them in the primaries?
If all the other R's polled better in the general, why did Trump CRUSH all of them in the primaries?
Posted by: M Magoo at June 29, 2016 12:43 PM (dy7qd)
180
Hillary may show some lead between 2-6%. And this is after a VAST amount of money has been spent by her in ads.
Trump has spent nothing on media outlays.
Yeah this is a pretty significant point. Hillary is doing every conceivable thing to win, backed by the full ongoing efforts of the media and even large segments of the Republican Party and her success margin is pretty weak.
The polls mean nothing, they're a joke. But the spending differential? That's significant. And to me, quite surprising.
I can't stand Trump as a person and I think he's about as worthy of the White House as Bill Clinton.
But he's changing the way politics works, for now at least. He's getting big wins and moving forward without buying his way. And that, I like. If he can put immigration back on the front burner, well that's another massive win.
We'll see how it turns out. For me its mostly popcorn fare. Either way we lose. So its the raw battle that has me watching, not some hope of one or the other winning.
Hillary may show some lead between 2-6%. And this is after a VAST amount of money has been spent by her in ads.
Trump has spent nothing on media outlays.
Yeah this is a pretty significant point. Hillary is doing every conceivable thing to win, backed by the full ongoing efforts of the media and even large segments of the Republican Party and her success margin is pretty weak.
The polls mean nothing, they're a joke. But the spending differential? That's significant. And to me, quite surprising.
I can't stand Trump as a person and I think he's about as worthy of the White House as Bill Clinton.
But he's changing the way politics works, for now at least. He's getting big wins and moving forward without buying his way. And that, I like. If he can put immigration back on the front burner, well that's another massive win.
We'll see how it turns out. For me its mostly popcorn fare. Either way we lose. So its the raw battle that has me watching, not some hope of one or the other winning.
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at June 29, 2016 12:43 PM (39g3+)
181
"NRA to Run Benghazi Themed Ad"
In my opinion they would do better to run something funny.
Like the video where the Democratic voter laid his gun on the counter and the store clerk picked it up and shot him with it.
In my opinion they would do better to run something funny.
Like the video where the Democratic voter laid his gun on the counter and the store clerk picked it up and shot him with it.
Posted by: meme at June 29, 2016 12:43 PM (rnH8X)
182
Polls from Summer 2014:
McConnell was losing to Grimes by 1-3 in some polls and winning by 1-3 in other polls.
Final score...McConnell wins by 15!!
But yeah let's panic over polls in June.
McConnell was losing to Grimes by 1-3 in some polls and winning by 1-3 in other polls.
Final score...McConnell wins by 15!!
But yeah let's panic over polls in June.
Posted by: Monsieur Moo Moo at June 29, 2016 12:43 PM (0LHZx)
183
By all means, since he's a few points behind, we should all start kicking him - that should fix it!
Posted by: blaster at June 29, 2016 12:43 PM (tewYv)
184
Free trade works better. Protectionism hurts the protectionist side.
----
Really?
How's it worked out for China?
----
Really?
How's it worked out for China?
Posted by: Methos, AoSHQ commenter since 2006, now apparently nonvoting democrat at June 29, 2016 12:43 PM (3Liv/)
185
Here are all the links for the Benghazi Report from this morning's news links:
Scankles does her normal crap and blows off Trey Gowdy's damning Benghazi report. Says they found nothing. But he did basically call her and Obama incompetent.
http://tinyurl.com/hakupwd
Well, for one thing among many others, they confirmed once again that the WH and Scankles deliberately lied about Benghazi. But they did not take it one step further and say Scankles lied to congress, which she did. That is just one more felony she will not get prosecuted for.
http://tinyurl.com/jf7obu9
It also could not find ANY evidence that Obama issued three directives while Benghazi was in progress (as Obama claimed). IOW it once again shows Obama is a corrupt liar.
http://tinyurl.com/hbfw7ej
And Sharyl Atkinson says Obama actively impeded the investigation by refusing to answer any questions.
In the end, Republicans say the White House impeded the investigation making it impossible to answer all outstanding questions. The Committee ended its work without having spoken to anyone in the White House Situation Room that night, wrote Jordan and Pompeo. Nor did we receive all email communication between White House staffers concerning the attack all off limits to Congress according to White House lawyers.
http://tinyurl.com/hfkl8ld
Scankles does her normal crap and blows off Trey Gowdy's damning Benghazi report. Says they found nothing. But he did basically call her and Obama incompetent.
http://tinyurl.com/hakupwd
Well, for one thing among many others, they confirmed once again that the WH and Scankles deliberately lied about Benghazi. But they did not take it one step further and say Scankles lied to congress, which she did. That is just one more felony she will not get prosecuted for.
http://tinyurl.com/jf7obu9
It also could not find ANY evidence that Obama issued three directives while Benghazi was in progress (as Obama claimed). IOW it once again shows Obama is a corrupt liar.
http://tinyurl.com/hbfw7ej
And Sharyl Atkinson says Obama actively impeded the investigation by refusing to answer any questions.
In the end, Republicans say the White House impeded the investigation making it impossible to answer all outstanding questions. The Committee ended its work without having spoken to anyone in the White House Situation Room that night, wrote Jordan and Pompeo. Nor did we receive all email communication between White House staffers concerning the attack all off limits to Congress according to White House lawyers.
http://tinyurl.com/hfkl8ld
Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at June 29, 2016 12:44 PM (mpXpK)
186
Enjoy the bickering y'all.
Posted by: Ghost of kari - certified sidebar at June 29, 2016 12:44 PM (wOKJp)
187
Sorry, that's just the m-fing truth. And in the end, Cruz managed to do VERY well, in spite of himself, and his real inability to ARTICULATE his so-called conservatism.
Posted by: BurtTC at June 29, 2016 12:42 PM (TOk1P)
Everyone seems to forget the 14 others in the race at the outset.
Look, let's stop stepping on our dicks and figure out A) the best way to shove Trump over the finish line and -
B) the best way to prevent him from shifting left (his natural instinct, sorry to say) and doing the right things.
That is all.
Sorry, that's just the m-fing truth. And in the end, Cruz managed to do VERY well, in spite of himself, and his real inability to ARTICULATE his so-called conservatism.
Posted by: BurtTC at June 29, 2016 12:42 PM (TOk1P)
Everyone seems to forget the 14 others in the race at the outset.
Look, let's stop stepping on our dicks and figure out A) the best way to shove Trump over the finish line and -
B) the best way to prevent him from shifting left (his natural instinct, sorry to say) and doing the right things.
That is all.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at June 29, 2016 12:44 PM (p4UlV)
188
It's time to jump in the pool, nevertrumpers. The water is not that bad. Just go home if you aren't going to take the plunge.
Posted by: Ghost of kari - certified sidebar at June 29, 2016 12:45 PM (wOKJp)
189
Had the 2004 Republicans showed up in 2012, Obama would have easily lost.
Ah, the old "they stayed home" gambit.
Mind you, more people voted in 2012 by a huge margin than 2000 or 2004, and the demographics of the country changed a lot, but it was all about those stupid guys staying home!!!! Not that anyone actually knows anyone that literally avoided voting but its still the answer!
Ah, the old "they stayed home" gambit.
Mind you, more people voted in 2012 by a huge margin than 2000 or 2004, and the demographics of the country changed a lot, but it was all about those stupid guys staying home!!!! Not that anyone actually knows anyone that literally avoided voting but its still the answer!
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at June 29, 2016 12:45 PM (39g3+)
190
Didn't the news of Dubya's DUI have something to do with the last minute poll dip?
Posted by: Gran
___
Even before that, polls had tightened quite a bit. Bush went from up 5-10 in summer polls to 2-5 in late October polls.
Posted by: Gran
___
Even before that, polls had tightened quite a bit. Bush went from up 5-10 in summer polls to 2-5 in late October polls.
Posted by: Monsieur Moo Moo at June 29, 2016 12:45 PM (0LHZx)
191
Trump could close the deal right damn now by panning a camera around his family and his domicile with the voiceover, "I'm rich, happy, and famous. I want all of you to be able to have what I have! Vote for me!"
I make $250,000 per speech. I want all of you to be able to make money just by talking to other people.
Trump could close the deal right damn now by panning a camera around his family and his domicile with the voiceover, "I'm rich, happy, and famous. I want all of you to be able to have what I have! Vote for me!"
I make $250,000 per speech. I want all of you to be able to make money just by talking to other people.
Posted by: Hillary Clinton at June 29, 2016 12:45 PM (IqV8l)
192
Way to go Gowdy and Issa.
Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That at June 29, 2016 12:31 PM (ECJ+C)
Yet another triumph for the gravitas laden GOP Establishment as they conduct yet another dead-end faux investigation, which turned out to be inexplicably pretty light on the "sound and fury" and signifying absolutely nothing!
Consider me shocked!
Who was the military officer that gave the order to those Marines to change from Marine uniforms to civilian attire (and back etc.)?
Who was the individual in DoS or officer in DoD that gave the uniform change order to the officer in charge?
But that's not important right now!
Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That at June 29, 2016 12:31 PM (ECJ+C)
Yet another triumph for the gravitas laden GOP Establishment as they conduct yet another dead-end faux investigation, which turned out to be inexplicably pretty light on the "sound and fury" and signifying absolutely nothing!
Consider me shocked!
Who was the military officer that gave the order to those Marines to change from Marine uniforms to civilian attire (and back etc.)?
Who was the individual in DoS or officer in DoD that gave the uniform change order to the officer in charge?
But that's not important right now!
Posted by: Hrothgar at June 29, 2016 12:46 PM (wYnyS)
193
It seems a lot of the reason for the variation in the polls we're seeing is due to weighting to account for party affiliation percentages. On a similar note, I wonder what kind of turnout enthusiasm we'll see, and how it affects the final votes. I can't see many people (outside old white women) excited to vote for Hillary, while Trump has quite a few enthusiastic demos.
Posted by: Grimaldi at June 29, 2016 12:46 PM (pANPl)
194
Yeah, what on earth had Trump, a private citizen at
that time, anything to do with Benghazi? Dems are so damn stupid, and
sadly so are 52% of the citizenry.
Posted by: IC at June 29, 2016 12:27 PM (a0IVu)
____________
I was wondering that. No mention of Palin, I assume?
that time, anything to do with Benghazi? Dems are so damn stupid, and
sadly so are 52% of the citizenry.
Posted by: IC at June 29, 2016 12:27 PM (a0IVu)
____________
I was wondering that. No mention of Palin, I assume?
Posted by: Jay Guevara at June 29, 2016 12:46 PM (oKE6c)
Posted by: Bandersnatch at June 29, 2016 12:46 PM (1xUj/)
196
There are perfectly reasonable englishtranslations for everything Trump says
There are perfectly reasonable englishtranslations for everything Trump says
Posted by: Flawless Male Logic at June 29, 2016 12:46 PM (lKyWE)
197
He is who he is, and it's not all negative, but comparisons to Reagan are silly.
---
Trump is this generation's Reagan.
By which I mean to say less about Trump or Reagan than about this generation.
---
Trump is this generation's Reagan.
By which I mean to say less about Trump or Reagan than about this generation.
Posted by: Methos, AoSHQ commenter since 2006, now apparently nonvoting democrat at June 29, 2016 12:46 PM (3Liv/)
198
188 It's time to jump in the pool, nevertrumpers. The water is not that bad. Just go home if you aren't going to take the plunge.
Posted by: Ghost of kari - certified sidebar at June 29, 2016 12:45 PM (wOKJp)
You conflate two different things.
1) Preventing Hilary from winning
2) Pointing out Mr. Trump's serious flaws and inconsistencies.
I realize when people do the latter, they get blasted. But it's not an unimportant point.
Posted by: Ghost of kari - certified sidebar at June 29, 2016 12:45 PM (wOKJp)
You conflate two different things.
1) Preventing Hilary from winning
2) Pointing out Mr. Trump's serious flaws and inconsistencies.
I realize when people do the latter, they get blasted. But it's not an unimportant point.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at June 29, 2016 12:46 PM (p4UlV)
199
Thank you for your concern trolling Ace.
Posted by: beerologist at June 29, 2016 12:47 PM (ZXipY)
200
Bad polling never stopped any of the other dumbass candidates the GOP stood up before. Stop fucking mewling
Posted by: Bigbys Cellphone at June 29, 2016 12:47 PM (TaJ8L)
201
169 These "conservatives" that keep wanting to tell us Trump loses big to Hillary (without any polling evidence) what exactly is your goal?
Is it to just give up this election altogether? Would Trump conceding to Hillary now make you feel better?
I'm honestly asking.
Posted by: Maritime at June 29, 2016 12:41 PM (3bOpa)
For me it's a defensive reaction because I was foolish enough to find comfort in the assurances of the many "Romney will win! Bank on it!" assholes (both here and on Twitter) who were ignoring the polls. I don't see how comparing 2016 polling to 1980 and 2004 is valid in any way.
Is it to just give up this election altogether? Would Trump conceding to Hillary now make you feel better?
I'm honestly asking.
Posted by: Maritime at June 29, 2016 12:41 PM (3bOpa)
For me it's a defensive reaction because I was foolish enough to find comfort in the assurances of the many "Romney will win! Bank on it!" assholes (both here and on Twitter) who were ignoring the polls. I don't see how comparing 2016 polling to 1980 and 2004 is valid in any way.
Posted by: Gran at June 29, 2016 12:47 PM (XIXhw)
202
Getcha rifles heah! Circular firing squad rifles heah! Get 'em while they're hot!
Posted by: Insomniac at June 29, 2016 12:47 PM (0mRoj)
203
Free trade works better. Protectionism hurts the protectionist side.
----
Really?
How's it worked out for China?
Posted by: Methos, AoSHQ commenter since 2006, now apparently nonvoting democrat at June 29, 2016 12:43 PM (3Liv/)
Ssshhh! Those textbooks from undergrad economics classes say so. So who are we to believe our old textbooks published in 1982, or our own lying eyes.
----
Really?
How's it worked out for China?
Posted by: Methos, AoSHQ commenter since 2006, now apparently nonvoting democrat at June 29, 2016 12:43 PM (3Liv/)
Ssshhh! Those textbooks from undergrad economics classes say so. So who are we to believe our old textbooks published in 1982, or our own lying eyes.
Posted by: BurtTC at June 29, 2016 12:47 PM (TOk1P)
204
Rush just pointed this interesting nugget out:
Nate Silver the Golden Boy of polling is predicting 79% chance Hilary wins to Trump's 20.
That said, Rush points out Silver was wrong 7 times since June of 2015 about Trump not having a chance to win the nomination.
Rush just pointed this interesting nugget out:
Nate Silver the Golden Boy of polling is predicting 79% chance Hilary wins to Trump's 20.
That said, Rush points out Silver was wrong 7 times since June of 2015 about Trump not having a chance to win the nomination.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at June 29, 2016 12:48 PM (p4UlV)
205
53 is the New 35.
At least I keep telling myself that.
Heh.
Posted by: Sharkman at June 29, 2016 12:25 PM (CS7jF)
Happy birthday, youngster.
At least I keep telling myself that.
Heh.
Posted by: Sharkman at June 29, 2016 12:25 PM (CS7jF)
Happy birthday, youngster.
Posted by: OregonMuse at June 29, 2016 12:49 PM (mHKcx)
206
How's it worked out for China?
China is a time bomb.
So are we. Meanwhile, China keeps chugging along while we stagnate.
China is a time bomb.
So are we. Meanwhile, China keeps chugging along while we stagnate.
Posted by: rickb223 TEXIT at June 29, 2016 12:49 PM (kWQPe)
207
JUST IN: The UK's FTSE 100 stock index has erased all of its losses since the Brexit
http://cnb.cx/1I5nQix
JUST IN: The UK's FTSE 100 stock index has erased all of its losses since the Brexit
http://cnb.cx/1I5nQix
Posted by: Bruce With a Wang! at June 29, 2016 12:49 PM (iQIUe)
208
Over/under he'll mention Islam?
OK, if he mentions it, over/under it's to clarify that these terrorists were not true Muslims, racist!?
Posted by: Lizzy
My bet is TFG blaming it on the instability of BREXIT and white privilege. We drove them to commit murder.
OK, if he mentions it, over/under it's to clarify that these terrorists were not true Muslims, racist!?
Posted by: Lizzy
My bet is TFG blaming it on the instability of BREXIT and white privilege. We drove them to commit murder.
Posted by: Cheri at June 29, 2016 12:49 PM (oiNtH)
209
189 Mind you, more people voted in 2012 by a huge margin
than 2000 or 2004, and the demographics of the country changed a lot,
but it was all about those stupid guys staying home!!!! Not that anyone
actually knows anyone that literally avoided voting but its still the answer!
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at June 29, 2016 12:45 PM (39g3+)
I previously posted all the vote totals from 2008 and 2012 and they ALL showed Republican votes going UP while Democrat votes went down. They just did not go down far enough to shove Rombley over the line.
And STILL some people blame low Republican turnout.
than 2000 or 2004, and the demographics of the country changed a lot,
but it was all about those stupid guys staying home!!!! Not that anyone
actually knows anyone that literally avoided voting but its still the answer!
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at June 29, 2016 12:45 PM (39g3+)
I previously posted all the vote totals from 2008 and 2012 and they ALL showed Republican votes going UP while Democrat votes went down. They just did not go down far enough to shove Rombley over the line.
And STILL some people blame low Republican turnout.
Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at June 29, 2016 12:49 PM (mpXpK)
210
Look, let's stop stepping on our dicks and figure out A) the best way to shove Trump over the finish line and -
B) the best way to prevent him from shifting left (his natural instinct, sorry to say) and doing the right things.
That is all.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at June 29, 2016 12:44 PM (p4UlV)
Only issue with this is that we haven't been able to figure out how to do that with any of the other Republican politicians, so I'm not particularly hopeful that we'll find the magical formula over the next 6 months or so.
B) the best way to prevent him from shifting left (his natural instinct, sorry to say) and doing the right things.
That is all.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at June 29, 2016 12:44 PM (p4UlV)
Only issue with this is that we haven't been able to figure out how to do that with any of the other Republican politicians, so I'm not particularly hopeful that we'll find the magical formula over the next 6 months or so.
Posted by: joe, living dangerously at June 29, 2016 12:49 PM (KUaJL)
211
Eenie beanie, chili weenie, the spirits are about to speak!
Posted by: Pollster the Amazing at June 29, 2016 12:49 PM (0mRoj)
212
207
JUST IN: The UK's FTSE 100 stock index has erased all of its losses since the Brexit
http://cnb.cx/1I5nQix
Posted by: Bruce With a Wang! at June 29, 2016 12:49 PM (iQIUe)
Joo Disraeli Shape Shifters, no doubt.
JUST IN: The UK's FTSE 100 stock index has erased all of its losses since the Brexit
http://cnb.cx/1I5nQix
Posted by: Bruce With a Wang! at June 29, 2016 12:49 PM (iQIUe)
Joo Disraeli Shape Shifters, no doubt.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at June 29, 2016 12:50 PM (p4UlV)
213
More fun summer 2014 polls:
NC: Dem was up 2-4 in June/July
Final Score, Rep wins by 1.5
VA: Dem is up 15-20% in every poll
Actual Result: Dem wins by 1%
IA: Tied throughout the summer
Final Result: Rep wins by 9%
Anyone see a trend here?
NC: Dem was up 2-4 in June/July
Final Score, Rep wins by 1.5
VA: Dem is up 15-20% in every poll
Actual Result: Dem wins by 1%
IA: Tied throughout the summer
Final Result: Rep wins by 9%
Anyone see a trend here?
Posted by: Monsieur Moo Moo at June 29, 2016 12:50 PM (0LHZx)
214
There goes Ace again looking at lamestream media polls and acting like they are valid in order to justify his own biases.
News alert: there will never be a poll that shows Trump ahead, ever, because the goal is to depress turnout.
News alert: there will never be a poll that shows Trump ahead, ever, because the goal is to depress turnout.
Posted by: Just Relax Already at June 29, 2016 12:50 PM (fu53r)
215
>>How's it worked out for China?
Not that great, actually. Don't believe a lot of what you see about China in the msm, particularly do not believe Tom Friedman.
It doesn't take long when visiting China to realize that a lot of what we hear about the Chinese powerhouse in the msm is pure myth. For example, the Chinese have recently begun to severely restrict the cross border trips from mainland Chinese to Hong Kong because people were flocking to HK to buy baby formula and diapers that are in short supply in the mainland.
And don't forget about the ghost cities and manufacturing areas. They are real and they are empty.
China is a largely a paper tiger.
Not that great, actually. Don't believe a lot of what you see about China in the msm, particularly do not believe Tom Friedman.
It doesn't take long when visiting China to realize that a lot of what we hear about the Chinese powerhouse in the msm is pure myth. For example, the Chinese have recently begun to severely restrict the cross border trips from mainland Chinese to Hong Kong because people were flocking to HK to buy baby formula and diapers that are in short supply in the mainland.
And don't forget about the ghost cities and manufacturing areas. They are real and they are empty.
China is a largely a paper tiger.
Posted by: JackStraw at June 29, 2016 12:50 PM (/tuJf)
216
How's it worked out for China?
---------------------------
China is a time bomb.
Posted by: Bandersnatch at June 29, 2016 12:46 PM (1xUj/)
Set to go off aaaaaaaaaaany century now.
---------------------------
China is a time bomb.
Posted by: Bandersnatch at June 29, 2016 12:46 PM (1xUj/)
Set to go off aaaaaaaaaaany century now.
Posted by: BurtTC at June 29, 2016 12:50 PM (TOk1P)
217
Happy Birthday Sharkman! For your present, I will get off your lawn. 
Posted by: Insomniac at June 29, 2016 12:50 PM (0mRoj)
218
Sadly, Trey Gowdy not telling the media what we all know allows them to say Hilary cleared of any wrongdoing.
-- JS Sefton
=====
Had to comment on this because the press conference and interviews afterwards made it very clear that Gowdy was ONLY getting facts and letting anyone who could bother to read make their own conclusions.
Contrast mentions of DT in the (D) report. Make it clear that DT had nothing to do with the Libya fiasco.
Contrary to most of the doomsayers here, I thought his committee did a very good job of making clear that their remit was facts, and all discoverable facts are there.
-- JS Sefton
=====
Had to comment on this because the press conference and interviews afterwards made it very clear that Gowdy was ONLY getting facts and letting anyone who could bother to read make their own conclusions.
Contrast mentions of DT in the (D) report. Make it clear that DT had nothing to do with the Libya fiasco.
Contrary to most of the doomsayers here, I thought his committee did a very good job of making clear that their remit was facts, and all discoverable facts are there.
Posted by: mustbequantum at June 29, 2016 12:50 PM (MIKMs)
219
B) the best way to prevent him from shifting left (his natural instinct, sorry to say) and doing the right things.
I think thats the down ballot ticket right there.
B) the best way to prevent him from shifting left (his natural instinct, sorry to say) and doing the right things.
I think thats the down ballot ticket right there.
Posted by: Flawless Male Logic at June 29, 2016 12:50 PM (lKyWE)
220
That is all.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at June 29, 2016 12:44 PM (p4UlV)
Isn't it fascinating and revealing that this simple fact is too complex for our "pseudo-intellectual conservative" leaders, like Will, to grasp.
Obama might be the AntiChrist, but Hillary is Lucifer in person, and no matter how you slice it, even at his worst, Trump is a very minor demon!
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at June 29, 2016 12:44 PM (p4UlV)
Isn't it fascinating and revealing that this simple fact is too complex for our "pseudo-intellectual conservative" leaders, like Will, to grasp.
Obama might be the AntiChrist, but Hillary is Lucifer in person, and no matter how you slice it, even at his worst, Trump is a very minor demon!
Posted by: Hrothgar at June 29, 2016 12:51 PM (wYnyS)
221
141---He's so aesthetically revolting.
Posted by: Ghost of kari - certified sidebar at June 29, 2016 12:34 PM (wOKJp)
------------------------------------
Yes, he is --- which is why he will lose.
Because, outside of the FSA, who all vote D anyway, the great majority of the electorate cares more about IMAGE than anything else.
Posted by: Ghost of kari - certified sidebar at June 29, 2016 12:34 PM (wOKJp)
------------------------------------
Yes, he is --- which is why he will lose.
Because, outside of the FSA, who all vote D anyway, the great majority of the electorate cares more about IMAGE than anything else.
Posted by: Margarita DeVille at June 29, 2016 12:51 PM (T/5A0)
222
I look at it as a twist on the old axiom of immovable object/irresistible force.
1) No one can lose vs Hillary.
2) Trump can't win.
Paradox.
1) No one can lose vs Hillary.
2) Trump can't win.
Paradox.
Posted by: Tonic Dog at June 29, 2016 12:51 PM (QfCDO)
223
210 Posted by: joe, living dangerously at June 29, 2016 12:49 PM (KUaJL)
Honestly, I don't know what the hell to think anymore. Trump gets my vote, but with serious trepidations about what he'll do in office.
Hilary cannot win. She simply cannot be allowed.
Honestly, I don't know what the hell to think anymore. Trump gets my vote, but with serious trepidations about what he'll do in office.
Hilary cannot win. She simply cannot be allowed.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at June 29, 2016 12:51 PM (p4UlV)
224
China is a time bomb.
---
Well sure, but when we go to war with them, they're going to be a time bomb that controls most of our manufacturing capacity.
---
Well sure, but when we go to war with them, they're going to be a time bomb that controls most of our manufacturing capacity.
Posted by: Methos, AoSHQ commenter since 2006, now apparently nonvoting democrat at June 29, 2016 12:52 PM (3Liv/)
225
Had the 2004 Republicans showed up in 2012, Obama would have easily lost.
Ah, the old "they stayed home" gambit.
Mind you, more people voted in 2012 by a huge margin than 2000 or 2004, and the demographics of the country changed a lot, but it was all about those stupid guys staying home!!!! Not that anyone actually knows anyone that literally avoided voting but its still the answer!
Posted by: Christopher Taylor
It's not an open question "did they stay home?"
More people simply voted for the Republican ticket in 2004 than 2012, despite the population being greater.
It's an undeniable fact.
Vote totals
Bush 2004 62,040,610
Mitt Romney 2012 60,933,500
Had Romney got that same voter base, he likely would have won
Where did the "Bush coalition" go?
Ah, the old "they stayed home" gambit.
Mind you, more people voted in 2012 by a huge margin than 2000 or 2004, and the demographics of the country changed a lot, but it was all about those stupid guys staying home!!!! Not that anyone actually knows anyone that literally avoided voting but its still the answer!
Posted by: Christopher Taylor
It's not an open question "did they stay home?"
More people simply voted for the Republican ticket in 2004 than 2012, despite the population being greater.
It's an undeniable fact.
Vote totals
Bush 2004 62,040,610
Mitt Romney 2012 60,933,500
Had Romney got that same voter base, he likely would have won
Where did the "Bush coalition" go?
Posted by: Maritime at June 29, 2016 12:52 PM (3bOpa)
226
146...Why.... its almost as if all these pollsters are *trying* to get the R voters to go all "oh noes all is lost".
***scans thread**
It appears to be working.
Yeah - the GOPes deserve the fruits of their work and the hell Clinton will bring.
***scans thread**
It appears to be working.
Yeah - the GOPes deserve the fruits of their work and the hell Clinton will bring.
Posted by: jacke at June 29, 2016 12:52 PM (d5Qea)
227
223 210 Posted by: joe, living dangerously at June 29, 2016 12:49 PM (KUaJL)
Honestly, I don't know what the hell to think anymore. Trump gets my vote, but with serious trepidations about what he'll do in office.
Hilary cannot win. She simply cannot be allowed.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at June 29, 2016 12:51 PM (p4UlV)
Wildcard vs evil criminal sociopath. I'll take the wildcard.
Honestly, I don't know what the hell to think anymore. Trump gets my vote, but with serious trepidations about what he'll do in office.
Hilary cannot win. She simply cannot be allowed.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at June 29, 2016 12:51 PM (p4UlV)
Wildcard vs evil criminal sociopath. I'll take the wildcard.
Posted by: Insomniac at June 29, 2016 12:52 PM (0mRoj)
228
If anyone is hanging at Zip's place, it looks like they are playing with Ace's Time Machine, that he totes doesn't have.
Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at June 29, 2016 12:52 PM (ptqRm)
229
Plus
Wife is a Dem. We don't talk political shit much
She's voting Johnson I think. She's exactly Hillary's target group and she rejected the hag. Can't be that much of an outlier
Wife is a Dem. We don't talk political shit much
She's voting Johnson I think. She's exactly Hillary's target group and she rejected the hag. Can't be that much of an outlier
Posted by: Bigbys Cellphone at June 29, 2016 12:52 PM (TaJ8L)
230
Just win baby!
1) Trump has taken strong positions on a few things: Illegal immigration; Terrorism; Border control; Putting the interests of legal Americans first, including over jobs; 2nd Amendment rights.
2) He's been purposefully squishy on some other things so he doesn't get attacked on them. This drives certain so-called Conservatives nuts because they'd rather lose with purity.
By the time we get to November, Americans will have no doubt where Trump stands on the things under #1, and the difference with Hillary.
1) Trump has taken strong positions on a few things: Illegal immigration; Terrorism; Border control; Putting the interests of legal Americans first, including over jobs; 2nd Amendment rights.
2) He's been purposefully squishy on some other things so he doesn't get attacked on them. This drives certain so-called Conservatives nuts because they'd rather lose with purity.
By the time we get to November, Americans will have no doubt where Trump stands on the things under #1, and the difference with Hillary.
Posted by: Ignoramus at June 29, 2016 12:53 PM (r1fLd)
231
Trump's best chance is to fluster Hillary so much in the debates that she makes a fool of herself, and loses the "but she's more presidential" idea the left keeps pushing.
Posted by: brak at June 29, 2016 12:53 PM (MJuTN)
232
218 Posted by: mustbequantum at June 29, 2016 12:50 PM (MIKMs)
The thing of it is, Gowdy not forthrightly, but respectfully, saying that the conclusion is that Hilary knowingly allowed the death of 4 Americans to preserve her and Obama's legacy. He didn't. He pussyfooted. And the MFM went into complete circle the wagons and obfuscate mode.
Oh well.
The thing of it is, Gowdy not forthrightly, but respectfully, saying that the conclusion is that Hilary knowingly allowed the death of 4 Americans to preserve her and Obama's legacy. He didn't. He pussyfooted. And the MFM went into complete circle the wagons and obfuscate mode.
Oh well.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at June 29, 2016 12:53 PM (p4UlV)
Posted by: Roland [OMITTED] at June 29, 2016 12:54 PM (QM5S2)
234
Arguing over a stupid Q poll is pointless. I'll go back to my book.
Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at June 29, 2016 12:54 PM (mpXpK)
Posted by: Flawless Male Logic at June 29, 2016 12:54 PM (lKyWE)
236
Because, outside of the FSA, who all vote D anyway, the great majority of the electorate cares more about IMAGE than anything else.
Posted by: Margarita DeVille at June 29, 2016 12:51 PM (T/5A0)
Boy, I'd sure like to argue with you over that one.
But, I'd lose.
Posted by: Margarita DeVille at June 29, 2016 12:51 PM (T/5A0)
Boy, I'd sure like to argue with you over that one.
But, I'd lose.
Posted by: OneEyedJack at June 29, 2016 12:54 PM (kKHcp)
237
How can you have free trade when it is not an even playing field? Free trade works only when all partners believe in the concept and allow it to happen. Non of the Asean countries believe in free trade - for example, Malaysia imposes 50 to 100% tariffs on imported cars because they want folks to purchase locally made automobiles. As a result, American based cars are not even sold there - you cannot compete freely in that market. Same thing in China for steel and other goods. You have to force these countries to give up those practices somehow to level the playing field and then free trade can prosper. IMHO at least.
Posted by: IC at June 29, 2016 12:54 PM (a0IVu)
238
Throwing out the Reuters outlier, the Q-poll is in line with those that consistently show a 2-5 percent Clinton margin. I suspect Cruz or even Rubio would be behind by double digits at this juncture and it largely would be set in stone.
It will be interesting to see what the post-Brexit/Instanbul results will be. This election, even more than usual, will be events driven. Trump is the only candidate who could have beaten Clinton absent her referral for criminal charges. We likely won't know where this election truly is until October.
It will be interesting to see what the post-Brexit/Instanbul results will be. This election, even more than usual, will be events driven. Trump is the only candidate who could have beaten Clinton absent her referral for criminal charges. We likely won't know where this election truly is until October.
Posted by: Trump poisoned my cat at June 29, 2016 12:54 PM (c0QF2)
239
No, I'll go back to the bronze nips.
Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at June 29, 2016 12:54 PM (mpXpK)
240
Obama might be the AntiChrist, but Hillary is Lucifer in person, and no matter how you slice it, even at his worst, Trump is a very minor demon!
Obama might be the AntiChrist
Hillary is Lucifer in person
Trump is ex M-i-L.
Obama might be the AntiChrist
Hillary is Lucifer in person
Trump is ex M-i-L.
Posted by: rickb223 TEXIT at June 29, 2016 12:54 PM (kWQPe)
241
Thanks for being the adult in this room Mr. Moo Moo.
Posted by: jacke at June 29, 2016 12:55 PM (d5Qea)
242
224 China is a time bomb.
---
Well sure, but when we go to war with them, they're going to be a time bomb that controls most of our manufacturing capacity.
Posted by: Methos, AoSHQ commenter since 2006, now apparently nonvoting democrat at June 29, 2016 12:52 PM (3Liv/)
If their military gear is as good as their drywall and cat food, I don't think we have much to worry about.
---
Well sure, but when we go to war with them, they're going to be a time bomb that controls most of our manufacturing capacity.
Posted by: Methos, AoSHQ commenter since 2006, now apparently nonvoting democrat at June 29, 2016 12:52 PM (3Liv/)
If their military gear is as good as their drywall and cat food, I don't think we have much to worry about.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at June 29, 2016 12:55 PM (p4UlV)
243
232 218 Posted by: mustbequantum at June 29, 2016 12:50 PM (MIKMs)
The thing of it is, Gowdy not forthrightly, but respectfully, saying that the conclusion is that Hilary knowingly allowed the death of 4 Americans to preserve her and Obama's legacy. He didn't. He pussyfooted. And the MFM went into complete circle the wagons and obfuscate mode.
Oh well.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at June 29, 2016 12:53 PM (p4UlV)
I wish they hadn't backed down on it either. The MFM was going to spin it in the PIAPS' favor no matter what, so they might as well have gone all Col Nathan Jessup.
The thing of it is, Gowdy not forthrightly, but respectfully, saying that the conclusion is that Hilary knowingly allowed the death of 4 Americans to preserve her and Obama's legacy. He didn't. He pussyfooted. And the MFM went into complete circle the wagons and obfuscate mode.
Oh well.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at June 29, 2016 12:53 PM (p4UlV)
I wish they hadn't backed down on it either. The MFM was going to spin it in the PIAPS' favor no matter what, so they might as well have gone all Col Nathan Jessup.
Posted by: Insomniac at June 29, 2016 12:55 PM (0mRoj)
244
How's it worked out for China?
China is a time bomb.
So are we. Meanwhile, China keeps chugging along while we stagnate.
Posted by: rickb223
............
China is still building hundreds of "ghost cities".. at some point the house of cards will crumble.. We help keep them afloat, however, by sending hundreds of billions over there every year..
China is a time bomb.
So are we. Meanwhile, China keeps chugging along while we stagnate.
Posted by: rickb223
............
China is still building hundreds of "ghost cities".. at some point the house of cards will crumble.. We help keep them afloat, however, by sending hundreds of billions over there every year..
Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at June 29, 2016 12:55 PM (so+oy)
245
199 Thank you for your concern trolling Ace.
Posted by: beerologist at June 29, 2016 12:47 PM (ZXipY)
Ace's blog, ace's content decisions.
Posted by: beerologist at June 29, 2016 12:47 PM (ZXipY)
Ace's blog, ace's content decisions.
Posted by: Pennsylvania, That Fuggin' Ho at June 29, 2016 12:55 PM (mBYZv)
246
How's it worked out for China?
--------------------------
China is a time bomb.
----------------------------
So are we. Meanwhile, China keeps chugging along while we stagnate.
Posted by: rickb223 TEXIT at June 29, 2016 12:49 PM (kWQPe)
A useful comparison between commie China and commie Russia is probably worth exploring for those pointy heads who like talking economics.
Russian communism lasted... how long? 70 years? And that was with ACTIVE opposition from a strong, capitalist USA.
China is about... what, 30 years into their Great Economic Leap Forward? With 5 times as many people, doing actual labor, and... get this, selling EVERYTHING not nailed down to the USA, and the rest of the west.
And by the way, the USA is hardly the bastion of capitalism it once was, so China has THAT going for it, which is nice.
--------------------------
China is a time bomb.
----------------------------
So are we. Meanwhile, China keeps chugging along while we stagnate.
Posted by: rickb223 TEXIT at June 29, 2016 12:49 PM (kWQPe)
A useful comparison between commie China and commie Russia is probably worth exploring for those pointy heads who like talking economics.
Russian communism lasted... how long? 70 years? And that was with ACTIVE opposition from a strong, capitalist USA.
China is about... what, 30 years into their Great Economic Leap Forward? With 5 times as many people, doing actual labor, and... get this, selling EVERYTHING not nailed down to the USA, and the rest of the west.
And by the way, the USA is hardly the bastion of capitalism it once was, so China has THAT going for it, which is nice.
Posted by: BurtTC at June 29, 2016 12:56 PM (TOk1P)
247
175 One of Rush's core lines that he has been using for years is that Conservatism wins whenever people are given it as an alternative.
Posted by: JackStraw at June 29, 2016 12:33 PM (/tuJf)
Yeah, I used to think this too, until I saw Rick Perry, Scott Walker, Bobby Jindal, and finally Ted Cruz all flame out in the primaries. And who won? Not a conservative. A low-rent Bill O'Reilly.
Rush needs to stop embarrassing himself with this.
Posted by: JackStraw at June 29, 2016 12:33 PM (/tuJf)
Yeah, I used to think this too, until I saw Rick Perry, Scott Walker, Bobby Jindal, and finally Ted Cruz all flame out in the primaries. And who won? Not a conservative. A low-rent Bill O'Reilly.
Rush needs to stop embarrassing himself with this.
Posted by: OregonMuse at June 29, 2016 12:56 PM (mHKcx)
248
Now let me ask you this question: Would Ted Cruz be is a better position in these current polls?
I would say no. Why?
1. Most of the folks who actually run the Anti-Trump train don't like Cruz either. They might see him as some potential foil in the convention, but nothing more. The Curz fans who actually think they run the Anti-Trump train are deluding themselves as they sit down near the caboose. SO the dream of a unified GOP behind Cruz was no more or less unlikely than Trump is now.
2. Cruz would not be able to take the populism path, because of his own past, his wife's past (it mattes like it our not), etc. He would take a traditionalist GOP strategy, just with a lot more Christianity thrown in for good measure.
3. Cruz would be attacked in the media the same as Trump, just without the megaphone that Trump has to fire back. So by now everyone would have gotten the MSM version of Cruz - raving religious lunatic who wants to kill gay puppies at a Glen Beck rally. At the same time he would be getting kneecapped by the same GOPe senators that kneecapped him before.
What that leaves us is a GOP nominee who might have a better chance at winning...I don't know...Virginia (?), and a much worse chance of winning Pennsylvania. Florida would be a wash...
Now of course you could pick Rubio. However that gets you amnesty, nation building all over the Middle East, and lots of new Muslims immigrants. Then the next democrat president pulls out of the Middle East leading to another mass migration of Muslims that America will do its part taking in. That accomplishes what? Delays America's meltdown by a few years in less favorable circumstances to save what is good, and dump what is bad.
I predicted the Trump plan would be to drag Hillary down with him in a gutter fight and the polls so far have proved that to be correct. Trump's numbers are low, but so are Hillary's numbers. However, he has more room to grow than Hillary.
That is because Hillary is old news politically, and although Trump is known to the world, he is still seen as the outsider in a time ripe for outsiders due to his message. Like the old political view that the incumbent who is below 50% is in trouble. Same here...Hillary is the incumbent in all but name.
As the world goes to hell, with various elites making fools of themselves and warriors of Allah doing mass slaughters on a regular basis, it will be advantage Trump at least in terms of the situation.
Now maybe Trump will blow it by ticking off his core of supporters on something (base turnout will be key in this election). It also might be too much for Trump to overcome the Democrat-Media Complex AND the "conservatives" who are freaking out over Trump's protectionism. But despite everything, Trump is still in a good position to win for a Republican.
The simple truth is thus - You have to be loud and rough if you hope to overcome the MSM/Entertainment class that helps the Democrats every presidential election cycle. The typical GOPe tactics of being Mr. Nice Guy might work in off year elections for congress, but that is because the MSM/Hollywood crew does not pay attention to those things like a presidential election.
I would say no. Why?
1. Most of the folks who actually run the Anti-Trump train don't like Cruz either. They might see him as some potential foil in the convention, but nothing more. The Curz fans who actually think they run the Anti-Trump train are deluding themselves as they sit down near the caboose. SO the dream of a unified GOP behind Cruz was no more or less unlikely than Trump is now.
2. Cruz would not be able to take the populism path, because of his own past, his wife's past (it mattes like it our not), etc. He would take a traditionalist GOP strategy, just with a lot more Christianity thrown in for good measure.
3. Cruz would be attacked in the media the same as Trump, just without the megaphone that Trump has to fire back. So by now everyone would have gotten the MSM version of Cruz - raving religious lunatic who wants to kill gay puppies at a Glen Beck rally. At the same time he would be getting kneecapped by the same GOPe senators that kneecapped him before.
What that leaves us is a GOP nominee who might have a better chance at winning...I don't know...Virginia (?), and a much worse chance of winning Pennsylvania. Florida would be a wash...
Now of course you could pick Rubio. However that gets you amnesty, nation building all over the Middle East, and lots of new Muslims immigrants. Then the next democrat president pulls out of the Middle East leading to another mass migration of Muslims that America will do its part taking in. That accomplishes what? Delays America's meltdown by a few years in less favorable circumstances to save what is good, and dump what is bad.
I predicted the Trump plan would be to drag Hillary down with him in a gutter fight and the polls so far have proved that to be correct. Trump's numbers are low, but so are Hillary's numbers. However, he has more room to grow than Hillary.
That is because Hillary is old news politically, and although Trump is known to the world, he is still seen as the outsider in a time ripe for outsiders due to his message. Like the old political view that the incumbent who is below 50% is in trouble. Same here...Hillary is the incumbent in all but name.
As the world goes to hell, with various elites making fools of themselves and warriors of Allah doing mass slaughters on a regular basis, it will be advantage Trump at least in terms of the situation.
Now maybe Trump will blow it by ticking off his core of supporters on something (base turnout will be key in this election). It also might be too much for Trump to overcome the Democrat-Media Complex AND the "conservatives" who are freaking out over Trump's protectionism. But despite everything, Trump is still in a good position to win for a Republican.
The simple truth is thus - You have to be loud and rough if you hope to overcome the MSM/Entertainment class that helps the Democrats every presidential election cycle. The typical GOPe tactics of being Mr. Nice Guy might work in off year elections for congress, but that is because the MSM/Hollywood crew does not pay attention to those things like a presidential election.
Posted by: William Eaton at June 29, 2016 12:56 PM (KhJh8)
249
Polling has to suck this year.
I mean the actual act of polling. How the hell can this year's turnout be modeled? You have lots of distaste on both sides, a significant GOP contingent actively against their own nominee, the unlikeable HC, and a lot of discontent all the way around. Do people stay home? Do they make protest votes?
I think the landscape is such that I'm not inclined to give much weight to polling, if only because turnout is even more of an unknown than usual this year.
I mean the actual act of polling. How the hell can this year's turnout be modeled? You have lots of distaste on both sides, a significant GOP contingent actively against their own nominee, the unlikeable HC, and a lot of discontent all the way around. Do people stay home? Do they make protest votes?
I think the landscape is such that I'm not inclined to give much weight to polling, if only because turnout is even more of an unknown than usual this year.
Posted by: VA GOP Sucks at June 29, 2016 12:56 PM (PFy0L)
250
Obama is just totally infuriating. He claims ISIS holds no ground and will be defeated.
After 50 blown to bits in Istanbul and 49 shot to pieces in Orlando.
He deserves (REDACTED).
Obama is just totally infuriating. He claims ISIS holds no ground and will be defeated.
After 50 blown to bits in Istanbul and 49 shot to pieces in Orlando.
He deserves (REDACTED).
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at June 29, 2016 12:56 PM (p4UlV)
251
250
Obama is just totally infuriating. He claims ISIS holds no ground and will be defeated.
After 50 blown to bits in Istanbul and 49 shot to pieces in Orlando.
He deserves (REDACTED).
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at June 29, 2016 12:56 PM (p4UlV)
Bunga bunga?
Obama is just totally infuriating. He claims ISIS holds no ground and will be defeated.
After 50 blown to bits in Istanbul and 49 shot to pieces in Orlando.
He deserves (REDACTED).
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at June 29, 2016 12:56 PM (p4UlV)
Bunga bunga?
Posted by: Insomniac at June 29, 2016 12:57 PM (0mRoj)
252
Gee Ace chill out.
A) it's still early in an unpredictable year
B) It's to late to do anything about it. Better to get on the Trump train rather than throwing stones against it from the outside ( not that your doing that)
A) it's still early in an unpredictable year
B) It's to late to do anything about it. Better to get on the Trump train rather than throwing stones against it from the outside ( not that your doing that)
Posted by: Nevergiveup at June 29, 2016 12:57 PM (zp+j1)
Posted by: Nevergiveup at June 29, 2016 12:57 PM (zp+j1)
254
223, What makes me sick to my stomach is that in a morally--I'll settle for ethically , for all the God-haters--just universe, Hillary doesn't even deserve to be running for President, let alone having a better than 50% of winning. This , more than any actuall damage she would cause as president, is what keeps me awake at night.
Posted by: JoeF. at June 29, 2016 12:58 PM (KLTo2)
255
Honestly, I don't know what the hell to think anymore. Trump gets my vote, but with serious trepidations about what he'll do in office.
Hilary cannot win. She simply cannot be allowed.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at June 29, 2016 12:51 PM (p4UlV)
Yep. My hope is that the Republican party in congress would just act as a minority party (since that's the only thing they're good for anyway). It's also far less likely that the media will just go along with Trump if he's going to do something monumentally stupid than the would be with Hillary.
Hilary cannot win. She simply cannot be allowed.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at June 29, 2016 12:51 PM (p4UlV)
Yep. My hope is that the Republican party in congress would just act as a minority party (since that's the only thing they're good for anyway). It's also far less likely that the media will just go along with Trump if he's going to do something monumentally stupid than the would be with Hillary.
Posted by: joe, living dangerously at June 29, 2016 12:58 PM (KUaJL)
256
>>Japan thought we were a paper tiger in 1940 too
And we are nothing like China in 1940 which tiny Japan had pretty much on the ropes despite the help the were getting from us and the Soviets in 1940.
And we are nothing like China in 1940 which tiny Japan had pretty much on the ropes despite the help the were getting from us and the Soviets in 1940.
Posted by: JackStraw at June 29, 2016 12:58 PM (/tuJf)
257
Trump's best chance is to fluster Hillary so much in the debates that she makes a fool of herself, and loses the "but she's more presidential" idea the left keeps pushing.
Posted by: brak
My thoughts exactly. Trump has to keep on message and knock her the F out. I remember the debate with Obama and how he treated her "You are likable enough". The look on her face and resulting performance sealed her fate.
Posted by: brak
My thoughts exactly. Trump has to keep on message and knock her the F out. I remember the debate with Obama and how he treated her "You are likable enough". The look on her face and resulting performance sealed her fate.
Posted by: Cheri at June 29, 2016 12:58 PM (oiNtH)
258
If their military gear is as good as their drywall and cat food, I don't think we have much to worry about.
Give 300 million of their single men pointy sticks and point them at us. We couldn't reload fast enough to stop the wave.
And they could lose 300 million without blinking.
Give 300 million of their single men pointy sticks and point them at us. We couldn't reload fast enough to stop the wave.
And they could lose 300 million without blinking.
Posted by: rickb223 TEXIT at June 29, 2016 12:59 PM (kWQPe)
259
251, it's like Obama is challenging ISIS to up the body count....
Posted by: JoeF. at June 29, 2016 12:59 PM (KLTo2)
260
Hildabeast ads here in Florida. Crickets from Trump.
Posted by: Drewbicle at June 29, 2016 01:00 PM (iGiss)
261
Bunga bunga?
Posted by: Insomniac at June 29, 2016 12:57 PM (0mRoj)
Rumour has it, he's not inexperienced there.
Posted by: Insomniac at June 29, 2016 12:57 PM (0mRoj)
Rumour has it, he's not inexperienced there.
Posted by: OneEyedJack at June 29, 2016 01:00 PM (kKHcp)
262
One of Rush's core lines that he has been using for years is that Conservatism wins whenever people are given it as an alternative.
Posted by: JackStraw at June 29, 2016 12:33 PM (/tuJf)
Yeah, I used to think this too, until I saw Rick Perry, Scott Walker, Bobby Jindal, and finally Ted Cruz all flame out in the primaries. And who won? Not a conservative. A low-rent Bill O'Reilly.
Rush needs to stop embarrassing himself with this.
Posted by: OregonMuse
________
I agree that this is a fairly tale both sides of the aisle tell themselves.
That there's a huge swath of voters that are really, really into politics, but only vote when the candidate espousing the perfect ideology decides to run.
This idea that ideological imperfection is why Republicans have been losing nationally is a dumb meme, but activists will keep pushing it.
Posted by: JackStraw at June 29, 2016 12:33 PM (/tuJf)
Yeah, I used to think this too, until I saw Rick Perry, Scott Walker, Bobby Jindal, and finally Ted Cruz all flame out in the primaries. And who won? Not a conservative. A low-rent Bill O'Reilly.
Rush needs to stop embarrassing himself with this.
Posted by: OregonMuse
________
I agree that this is a fairly tale both sides of the aisle tell themselves.
That there's a huge swath of voters that are really, really into politics, but only vote when the candidate espousing the perfect ideology decides to run.
This idea that ideological imperfection is why Republicans have been losing nationally is a dumb meme, but activists will keep pushing it.
Posted by: Maritime at June 29, 2016 01:00 PM (3bOpa)
263
258
Give 300 million of their single men pointy sticks and point them at us. We couldn't reload fast enough to stop the wave.
And they could lose 300 million without blinking.
Posted by: rickb223 TEXIT at June 29, 2016 12:59 PM (kWQPe)
**Imagines Capt. Ron Tracy describing the Yang hordes attacking, shouting "E Pleb Neesta**
Give 300 million of their single men pointy sticks and point them at us. We couldn't reload fast enough to stop the wave.
And they could lose 300 million without blinking.
Posted by: rickb223 TEXIT at June 29, 2016 12:59 PM (kWQPe)
**Imagines Capt. Ron Tracy describing the Yang hordes attacking, shouting "E Pleb Neesta**
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at June 29, 2016 01:00 PM (p4UlV)
264
And in the end, Cruz managed to do VERY well, in spite of himself, and his real inability to ARTICULATE his so-called conservatism.
Posted by: BurtTC at June 29, 2016 12:42 PM (TOk1P)
Cruz has been marinating in conservatism since childhood and is the real deal. He's also the very best at articulating conservatism.
Yes, I am stuck having sot vote for Trump, and that's fine, but I don't have to accept Trump supporters' continual lies about Lyin' Ted.
Posted by: BurtTC at June 29, 2016 12:42 PM (TOk1P)
Cruz has been marinating in conservatism since childhood and is the real deal. He's also the very best at articulating conservatism.
Yes, I am stuck having sot vote for Trump, and that's fine, but I don't have to accept Trump supporters' continual lies about Lyin' Ted.
Posted by: stace...TEXIT at June 29, 2016 01:01 PM (ozZau)
265
Howdy is another(there are way to many) 'Republicans' who are, when it matters, pussies....
Or cowardly, ineffective, and definitely not in it to win-- if you prefer the long version.
Trump can be an idiot but it is obvious the SOB fights, Relentlessly--too often with and against himself. But he will and he does fight.
Give me a fighter ANY day over the brainiac pussy.
We are in a goddamn political war and the idea is to FIGHT them...we wont win trying to 'out-pussy- them.
Or cowardly, ineffective, and definitely not in it to win-- if you prefer the long version.
Trump can be an idiot but it is obvious the SOB fights, Relentlessly--too often with and against himself. But he will and he does fight.
Give me a fighter ANY day over the brainiac pussy.
We are in a goddamn political war and the idea is to FIGHT them...we wont win trying to 'out-pussy- them.
Posted by: malignantly aggrieved and economically useless at June 29, 2016 01:01 PM (NUU7r)
266
Obama is just totally infuriating. He claims ISIS holds no ground and will be defeated.
With the millions of immigrants that have flooded Europe ISIS could be more dangerous by cutting lose from fixed geographical locations
Obama is just totally infuriating. He claims ISIS holds no ground and will be defeated.
With the millions of immigrants that have flooded Europe ISIS could be more dangerous by cutting lose from fixed geographical locations
Posted by: Flawless Male Logic at June 29, 2016 01:01 PM (lKyWE)
267
**Imagines Capt. Ron Tracy describing the Yang hordes attacking, shouting "E Pleb Neesta**
That is a worship word. You will not speak it!
That is a worship word. You will not speak it!
Posted by: VA GOP Sucks at June 29, 2016 01:01 PM (PFy0L)
268
And who won? Not a conservative. A low-rent Bill O'Reilly.
Rush needs to stop embarrassing himself with this.
Posted by: OregonMuse
---------------
I think that the great problem is articulation of the nature of Conservatism in terms that the Great Unwashed can grasp and understand.
None of the Conservative candidates did that. They were too busy infighting and fending off Trump's attacks.
Rush needs to stop embarrassing himself with this.
Posted by: OregonMuse
---------------
I think that the great problem is articulation of the nature of Conservatism in terms that the Great Unwashed can grasp and understand.
None of the Conservative candidates did that. They were too busy infighting and fending off Trump's attacks.
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at June 29, 2016 01:01 PM (9mTYi)
269
If their military gear is as good as their drywall and cat food, I don't think we have much to worry about.
---
I think they have a published plan to first attack our carriers with WW2 era planes until we run out of ammunition and then send in the stuff that's any good.
But even if that's bunk, the point I was hoping to guide Bandersnatch into admitting is that placing the bulk of our supply lines in Chinese territory greatly diminishes our capacity to stand up to them, just as they intend.
---
I think they have a published plan to first attack our carriers with WW2 era planes until we run out of ammunition and then send in the stuff that's any good.
But even if that's bunk, the point I was hoping to guide Bandersnatch into admitting is that placing the bulk of our supply lines in Chinese territory greatly diminishes our capacity to stand up to them, just as they intend.
Posted by: Methos, AoSHQ commenter since 2006, now apparently nonvoting democrat at June 29, 2016 01:01 PM (3Liv/)
Posted by: RWC - Team BOHICA at June 29, 2016 01:02 PM (YqcVw)
271
Give 300 million of their single men pointy sticks and point them at us. We couldn't reload fast enough to stop the wave.
----
See Human Wave, Korean War.
----
See Human Wave, Korean War.
Posted by: Bigbys Cellphone at June 29, 2016 01:02 PM (TaJ8L)
272
You know why Trump is losing? Because of so-called conservative fucktards in the nevertrump camp. If all these cry baby assholes stopped throwing their tantrums, he'd easily win.
Posted by: Monsieur Moo Moo at June 29, 2016 01:02 PM (0LHZx)
273
179
If all the other R's polled better in the general, why did Trump CRUSH all of them in the primaries?
Posted by: M Magoo at June 29, 2016 12:43 PM (dy7qd)
--------------------------------
If you do not understand the difference between primary voters and the general electorate, I can't help you. Seriously.
As for Trump "crushing," please note that he won with the SMALLEST percentage of primary voters in modern-primary history. He got a record number of primary votes, to be sure, but he also had a record number of primary votes AGAINST him.
If you want to delude yourself, fine. I only hope that Trump faces facts and plans strategy accordingly. If you can't see or admit a weakness, how can you overcome it?
If all the other R's polled better in the general, why did Trump CRUSH all of them in the primaries?
Posted by: M Magoo at June 29, 2016 12:43 PM (dy7qd)
--------------------------------
If you do not understand the difference between primary voters and the general electorate, I can't help you. Seriously.
As for Trump "crushing," please note that he won with the SMALLEST percentage of primary voters in modern-primary history. He got a record number of primary votes, to be sure, but he also had a record number of primary votes AGAINST him.
If you want to delude yourself, fine. I only hope that Trump faces facts and plans strategy accordingly. If you can't see or admit a weakness, how can you overcome it?
Posted by: Margarita DeVille at June 29, 2016 01:02 PM (T/5A0)
274
Trump's best chance is to fluster Hillary so much in the debates that she makes a fool of herself, and loses the "but she's more presidential" idea the left keeps pushing.
----
HILLARY: "....... and that is why, you, Mr Trump dont have the emotional temperment to be President of the United States".
TRUMP: "Well, Madame Secretary..... Ive never told MY Secret Service detail to "fuck off" in repsonse to a "Good Morning"..... and Ive certainly never launched a lamp at my spouses head. I promise. .... a YUUUUGE promise... to NEVER throw ANY of the White House furniture. At ANYBODY.
EVER"
----
HILLARY: "....... and that is why, you, Mr Trump dont have the emotional temperment to be President of the United States".
TRUMP: "Well, Madame Secretary..... Ive never told MY Secret Service detail to "fuck off" in repsonse to a "Good Morning"..... and Ive certainly never launched a lamp at my spouses head. I promise. .... a YUUUUGE promise... to NEVER throw ANY of the White House furniture. At ANYBODY.
EVER"
Posted by: fixerupper at June 29, 2016 01:02 PM (8XRCm)
275
Yeah, I used to think this too, until I saw Rick Perry, Scott Walker, Bobby Jindal, and finally Ted Cruz all flame out in the primaries. And who won? Not a conservative. A low-rent Bill O'Reilly.
Rush needs to stop embarrassing himself with this.
Posted by: OregonMuse at June 29, 2016 12:56 PM (mHKcx)
I don't know that he's embarrassing himself. I don't listen, so I don't know how much he says it. Probably nowhere near as much as he used to, because, seriously, does ANYBODY really know what the word means anymore?
I don't think it's Rush's fault that the whole concept has been turned around and twisted.
When he said it 4 years ago it was true. When he said it 8 years ago it was true.
Obama, 8 years... consequences.
Yeah, I used to think this too, until I saw Rick Perry, Scott Walker, Bobby Jindal, and finally Ted Cruz all flame out in the primaries. And who won? Not a conservative. A low-rent Bill O'Reilly.
Rush needs to stop embarrassing himself with this.
Posted by: OregonMuse at June 29, 2016 12:56 PM (mHKcx)
I don't know that he's embarrassing himself. I don't listen, so I don't know how much he says it. Probably nowhere near as much as he used to, because, seriously, does ANYBODY really know what the word means anymore?
I don't think it's Rush's fault that the whole concept has been turned around and twisted.
When he said it 4 years ago it was true. When he said it 8 years ago it was true.
Obama, 8 years... consequences.
Posted by: BurtTC at June 29, 2016 01:02 PM (TOk1P)
276
258 If their military gear is as good as their drywall and cat food, I don't think we have much to worry about.
Give 300 million of their single men pointy sticks and point them at us. We couldn't reload fast enough to stop the wave.
And they could lose 300 million without blinking.
Posted by: rickb223 TEXIT at June 29, 2016 12:59 PM (kWQPe)
That's why God gave us nukes.
Give 300 million of their single men pointy sticks and point them at us. We couldn't reload fast enough to stop the wave.
And they could lose 300 million without blinking.
Posted by: rickb223 TEXIT at June 29, 2016 12:59 PM (kWQPe)
That's why God gave us nukes.
Posted by: Insomniac at June 29, 2016 01:02 PM (0mRoj)
277
None of the Conservative candidates did that. They were too busy infighting and fending off Trump's attacks.
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at June 29, 2016 01:01 PM (9mTYi)
*****
So, in other words, it was a Primary.
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at June 29, 2016 01:01 PM (9mTYi)
*****
So, in other words, it was a Primary.
Posted by: ManWithNoParty at June 29, 2016 01:03 PM (ZhhC0)
278
They polled us and our upper east.side entourage & we all agreed.. we're conservatives for Hillary. Cheers
Posted by: Georgie Will & Davy Brooks at June 29, 2016 01:03 PM (ThCVv)
279
The vast majority of people in this country have zero interest in polling or blather by the MSM. Good grief, the MSM and Congress are running neck-and-neck for the lowest approval ratings of any national organization listed in a questionnaire (these are polling figures that I agree with 
). No one cares before the July 4th break.
We'll start caring at convention time, though. THAT will matter. I remember watching the 1968 Dem convention on TV unfold. Great theater. Kasich had better be on top of his game, history will remember what happens there.
). No one cares before the July 4th break.We'll start caring at convention time, though. THAT will matter. I remember watching the 1968 Dem convention on TV unfold. Great theater. Kasich had better be on top of his game, history will remember what happens there.
Posted by: mrp at June 29, 2016 01:03 PM (JBggj)
280
269 Posted by: Methos, AoSHQ commenter since 2006, now apparently nonvoting democrat at June 29, 2016 01:01 PM (3Liv/)
Man plans, G-d laughs. That said, Obama just enabled Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere 2 - Electric Boogaloo.
Man plans, G-d laughs. That said, Obama just enabled Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere 2 - Electric Boogaloo.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at June 29, 2016 01:03 PM (p4UlV)
281
**Imagines Capt. Ron Tracy describing the Yang hordes attacking, shouting "E Pleb Neesta**
Sweargin cocksucka!
-Mr. Wu
Sweargin cocksucka!
-Mr. Wu
Posted by: rickb223 TEXIT at June 29, 2016 01:04 PM (kWQPe)
282
271 Give 300 million of their single men pointy sticks and point them at us. We couldn't reload fast enough to stop the wave.
----
See Human Wave, Korean War.
Posted by: Bigbys Cellphone at June 29, 2016 01:02 PM (TaJ8L)
Or Iran/Iraq. The Iranians lost tens of thousands of men in human wave attacks.
----
See Human Wave, Korean War.
Posted by: Bigbys Cellphone at June 29, 2016 01:02 PM (TaJ8L)
Or Iran/Iraq. The Iranians lost tens of thousands of men in human wave attacks.
Posted by: Pennsylvania, That Fuggin' Ho at June 29, 2016 01:04 PM (mBYZv)
Posted by: Bigbys Cellphone at June 29, 2016 01:04 PM (TaJ8L)
284
Off skanky sock.
Posted by: joncelli, Bridge Troll and Crossbow Afficianado at June 29, 2016 01:05 PM (mBYZv)
285
275 Posted by: BurtTC at June 29, 2016 01:02 PM (TOk1P)
I think you're on to something. The electorate sadly has Overton Windowed their ass to the left.
I think you're on to something. The electorate sadly has Overton Windowed their ass to the left.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at June 29, 2016 01:05 PM (p4UlV)
286
I want to believe Trump can win, but I know the election's done been stole. She who must not be named will do ANYTHING to get in the off-whitehouse. I bet she puts a lifesize copy of Daughters OF Odessa in the bedroom where she and humaaahh will be 'sleeping'.
Posted by: Eromero at June 29, 2016 01:05 PM (zLDYs)
287
#NeverTrumpers Uniiiite (go Hildegard!)
Posted by: Cruz Damnit!! at June 29, 2016 01:05 PM (ThCVv)
288
I think that the great problem is articulation of the nature of Conservatism in terms that the Great Unwashed can grasp and understand.
None of the Conservative candidates did that. They were too busy infighting and fending off Trump's attacks.
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc.
The metaphor that we're selling vegetables and the left is giving away candy is true, especially since the FSA has the emotional maturity of 5 year olds.
None of the Conservative candidates did that. They were too busy infighting and fending off Trump's attacks.
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc.
The metaphor that we're selling vegetables and the left is giving away candy is true, especially since the FSA has the emotional maturity of 5 year olds.
Posted by: Prince Ludwig the #Problematic at June 29, 2016 01:05 PM (lDrRt)
289
Ay yi yi.
First of all, Ace, the Q poll for the GE has them two points apart. Go to realclelarpolitics.com and check it yourself. Two points, Ace, not four points. Glancing through the comments, it seems a number of people have informed you of this. And yet your headline still remains. Why?
Second of all, who the fuck is Ballotpedia and how do you square their poll with PPP polls that came out just yesterday? You seem to cherry pick which polls you think are headline worthy. Why?
Third of all, why is anyone still reading Hotair?
First of all, Ace, the Q poll for the GE has them two points apart. Go to realclelarpolitics.com and check it yourself. Two points, Ace, not four points. Glancing through the comments, it seems a number of people have informed you of this. And yet your headline still remains. Why?
Second of all, who the fuck is Ballotpedia and how do you square their poll with PPP polls that came out just yesterday? You seem to cherry pick which polls you think are headline worthy. Why?
Third of all, why is anyone still reading Hotair?
Posted by: Anti Antifa at June 29, 2016 01:05 PM (6Z+wC)
290
Regan trailed Carter 32 to 39 at this point in 1980.
But he lead Carter in July. Hopefully Trump will do a similar turnaround.
But he lead Carter in July. Hopefully Trump will do a similar turnaround.
Posted by: Grump928(C) says Free Soothie!, with purchase of commenter of equal or greater value at June 29, 2016 01:05 PM (rwI+c)
291
I think they have a published plan to first attack our carriers with WW2 era planes until we run out of ammunition and then send in the stuff that's any good.
But even if that's bunk, the point I was hoping to guide Bandersnatch into admitting is that placing the bulk of our supply lines in Chinese territory greatly diminishes our capacity to stand up to them, just as they intend.
Land them through the port of Long Beach off container ships.
But even if that's bunk, the point I was hoping to guide Bandersnatch into admitting is that placing the bulk of our supply lines in Chinese territory greatly diminishes our capacity to stand up to them, just as they intend.
Land them through the port of Long Beach off container ships.
Posted by: rickb223 TEXIT at June 29, 2016 01:05 PM (kWQPe)
292
>>A useful comparison between commie China and commie Russia is probably worth exploring for those pointy heads who like talking economics.
You know what's even more useful? Actually doing business in China for years.
Or you can keep listening to geniuses like Tom Friedman talk about the wisdom he gets from taxi drivers.
You know what's even more useful? Actually doing business in China for years.
Or you can keep listening to geniuses like Tom Friedman talk about the wisdom he gets from taxi drivers.
Posted by: JackStraw at June 29, 2016 01:06 PM (/tuJf)
293
Kasich had better be on top of his game, history will remember what happens there.
So...Kasich has a game?
Shocked. Awed.
So...Kasich has a game?
Shocked. Awed.
Posted by: Brave Sir Robin at June 29, 2016 01:06 PM (SeD0w)
294
You know why Trump is losing? Because of so-called conservative fucktards in the nevertrump camp. If all these cry baby assholes stopped throwing their tantrums, he'd easily win.
Posted by: Monsieur Moo Moo
There's a lot of truth to that.
Especially when it comes to national leaders like Paul Ryan. It really gives cover to the idea that conservatives should let Hillary win to make a point.
We shouldn't have GOP leaders rushing to the microphone to call Trump a racist.
Posted by: Monsieur Moo Moo
There's a lot of truth to that.
Especially when it comes to national leaders like Paul Ryan. It really gives cover to the idea that conservatives should let Hillary win to make a point.
We shouldn't have GOP leaders rushing to the microphone to call Trump a racist.
Posted by: Maritime at June 29, 2016 01:07 PM (3bOpa)
295
BTW - Let me remind people what "Conservatism" stands for now:
1. Lots of Immigration
2. Low taxes on wealthy
3. Internationalism or Globalism over American intrests
4. Wilsonian Foreign Policy
5. Corporate and bank handouts
6. Trade deals with enemies/rivals
That is what happens when you let the party be run by Bush and his supporters for 26 years with the exception of the Gingrich years.
That IS the Conservative Party! That is Conservatism in the 21st century...
1. Lots of Immigration
2. Low taxes on wealthy
3. Internationalism or Globalism over American intrests
4. Wilsonian Foreign Policy
5. Corporate and bank handouts
6. Trade deals with enemies/rivals
That is what happens when you let the party be run by Bush and his supporters for 26 years with the exception of the Gingrich years.
That IS the Conservative Party! That is Conservatism in the 21st century...
Posted by: William Eaton at June 29, 2016 01:08 PM (KhJh8)
296
291 I think they have a published plan to first attack our carriers with WW2 era planes until we run out of ammunition and then send in the stuff that's any good.
But even if that's bunk, the point I was hoping to guide Bandersnatch into admitting is that placing the bulk of our supply lines in Chinese territory greatly diminishes our capacity to stand up to them, just as they intend.
Land them through the port of Long Beach off container ships.
For the horde writers, there's a WWIII book idea.
But even if that's bunk, the point I was hoping to guide Bandersnatch into admitting is that placing the bulk of our supply lines in Chinese territory greatly diminishes our capacity to stand up to them, just as they intend.
Land them through the port of Long Beach off container ships.
For the horde writers, there's a WWIII book idea.
Posted by: rickb223 TEXIT at June 29, 2016 01:08 PM (kWQPe)
297
I think that the great problem is articulation of the nature of Conservatism in terms that the Great Unwashed can grasp and understand.
None of the Conservative candidates did that. They were too busy infighting and fending off Trump's attacks.
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at June 29, 2016 01:01 PM (9mTYi)
There was a missed opportunity for ANY of the three true conservatives in the primaries to articulate their message, and none of them took it.
What I mean is, during the endless debates, a conservative candidate could have used their closing statement to drive people to their website, where they would explain ONE issue from a conservative standpoint.
It's just a gambit to get the word out and differentiate themselves from the other candidates using social media and technology, but none of them did it.
None of the Conservative candidates did that. They were too busy infighting and fending off Trump's attacks.
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at June 29, 2016 01:01 PM (9mTYi)
There was a missed opportunity for ANY of the three true conservatives in the primaries to articulate their message, and none of them took it.
What I mean is, during the endless debates, a conservative candidate could have used their closing statement to drive people to their website, where they would explain ONE issue from a conservative standpoint.
It's just a gambit to get the word out and differentiate themselves from the other candidates using social media and technology, but none of them did it.
Posted by: OneEyedJack at June 29, 2016 01:08 PM (kKHcp)
298
And they could lose 300 million without blinking. Posted by: rickb223 TEXIT at June 29, 2016 12:59 PM (kWQPe)
It would actually solve a big problem for them
And they could lose 300 million without blinking. Posted by: rickb223 TEXIT at June 29, 2016 12:59 PM (kWQPe)
It would actually solve a big problem for them
Posted by: Flawless Male Logic at June 29, 2016 01:08 PM (lKyWE)
299
None of the Conservative candidates did that. They were too busy infighting and fending off Trump's attacks.
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc
---------------++++++
Lol, I think you mean"they were to busy infighting & n*ggerpiling on Trump to convey a good conservative message
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc
---------------++++++
Lol, I think you mean"they were to busy infighting & n*ggerpiling on Trump to convey a good conservative message
Posted by: Cruz Damnit!! at June 29, 2016 01:09 PM (ThCVv)
300
BTW - Let me remind people what "Conservatism" stands for now:
1. Lots of Immigration
2. Low taxes on wealthy
3. Internationalism or Globalism over American intrests
4. Wilsonian Foreign Policy
5. Corporate and bank handouts
6. Trade deals with enemies/rivals
-----
That's not Conservatism.
Thats DC Elite Republicanism.
BTW - Let me remind people what "Conservatism" stands for now:
1. Lots of Immigration
2. Low taxes on wealthy
3. Internationalism or Globalism over American intrests
4. Wilsonian Foreign Policy
5. Corporate and bank handouts
6. Trade deals with enemies/rivals
-----
That's not Conservatism.
Thats DC Elite Republicanism.
Posted by: fixerupper at June 29, 2016 01:09 PM (8XRCm)
301
nagger piling??..... whiners in a heap??
nagger piling??..... whiners in a heap??
Posted by: fixerupper at June 29, 2016 01:10 PM (8XRCm)
302
254 -----What makes me sick to my stomach is that in a morally--I'll settle for ethically , for all the God-haters--just universe, Hillary doesn't even deserve to be running for President, let alone having a better than 50% of winning. This , more than any actual damage she would cause as president, is what keeps me awake at night.
Posted by: JoeF. at June 29, 2016 12:58 PM (KLTo2)
------------------------------
THIS x 1000.
Posted by: JoeF. at June 29, 2016 12:58 PM (KLTo2)
------------------------------
THIS x 1000.
Posted by: Margarita DeVille at June 29, 2016 01:10 PM (T/5A0)
303
BTW - Let me remind people what "Conservatism" stands for now:
1. Lots of Immigration
2. Low taxes on wealthy
3. Internationalism or Globalism over American intrests
4. Wilsonian Foreign Policy
5. Corporate and bank handouts
6. Trade deals with enemies/rivals
That is what happens when you let the party be run by Bush and his supporters for 26 years with the exception of the Gingrich years.
That IS the Conservative Party! That is Conservatism in the 21st century...
Posted by: William Eaton
________
Pretty much
It's amazing when the GOP goes populist, it wins big, like Reagan or the Contract with America and Newt.
1. Lots of Immigration
2. Low taxes on wealthy
3. Internationalism or Globalism over American intrests
4. Wilsonian Foreign Policy
5. Corporate and bank handouts
6. Trade deals with enemies/rivals
That is what happens when you let the party be run by Bush and his supporters for 26 years with the exception of the Gingrich years.
That IS the Conservative Party! That is Conservatism in the 21st century...
Posted by: William Eaton
________
Pretty much
It's amazing when the GOP goes populist, it wins big, like Reagan or the Contract with America and Newt.
Posted by: Maritime at June 29, 2016 01:11 PM (3bOpa)
304
Posted by: BurtTC at June 29, 2016 01:02 PM (TOk1P)
I think you're on to something. The electorate sadly has Overton Windowed their ass to the left.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at June 29, 2016 01:05 PM (p4UlV)
Yep. I really like Ted Cruz, I always have. It pains me to say he's not "likeable" to a large swath of the electorate, but he is.
And it's worth noting of course, we can't blame all the negativity "conservatism" has attached to it these days on the left.
People do well not to forget: Cruz at times stood alone in the Senate, arguing conservatism, and what did he get for it? Pretty much all the leadership of his Party shunning him, and stabbing him in the back, front, and all side ways as well.
I think you're on to something. The electorate sadly has Overton Windowed their ass to the left.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at June 29, 2016 01:05 PM (p4UlV)
Yep. I really like Ted Cruz, I always have. It pains me to say he's not "likeable" to a large swath of the electorate, but he is.
And it's worth noting of course, we can't blame all the negativity "conservatism" has attached to it these days on the left.
People do well not to forget: Cruz at times stood alone in the Senate, arguing conservatism, and what did he get for it? Pretty much all the leadership of his Party shunning him, and stabbing him in the back, front, and all side ways as well.
Posted by: BurtTC at June 29, 2016 01:11 PM (TOk1P)
305
nagger piling??..... whiners in a heap??
Posted by: fixerupper
Nogger piling. It's an old way of making eggnog without a punchbowl.
Posted by: fixerupper
Nogger piling. It's an old way of making eggnog without a punchbowl.
Posted by: Prince Ludwig the #Problematic at June 29, 2016 01:11 PM (lDrRt)
306
"254 223, What makes me sick to my stomach is that in a morally--I'll settle for ethically , for all the God-haters--just universe, Hillary doesn't even deserve to be running for President, let alone having a better than 50% of winning. This , more than any actuall damage she would cause as president, is what keeps me awake at night."
Ultimately this. Even if Trump pulls ahead tomorrow, stays there, and goes on to win, we live in a country where (a) a serial felon could secure a major party nomination and (b) the odds to win at any point favored a person who sold national secrets to the highest bidder. At this point the Democrats are actively anti-American and a large chunk of the GOP also holds the country in contempt. The situation will explode. The "when" just remains in doubt.
Ultimately this. Even if Trump pulls ahead tomorrow, stays there, and goes on to win, we live in a country where (a) a serial felon could secure a major party nomination and (b) the odds to win at any point favored a person who sold national secrets to the highest bidder. At this point the Democrats are actively anti-American and a large chunk of the GOP also holds the country in contempt. The situation will explode. The "when" just remains in doubt.
Posted by: Trump poisoned my cat at June 29, 2016 01:11 PM (c0QF2)
307
Nobody said Nood yet?
Posted by: Chupacabra at June 29, 2016 01:12 PM (V40IZ)
308
//Lol, I think you mean"they were to busy infighting & n*ggerpiling on Trump to convey a good conservative message//
Good heavens, such RACISM!
Who said it?
I DISAVOW!*
*That said, Cruz Damnit!!'s analysis is correct**
**That said, I DISAVOW! A am one of the good White people!
Good heavens, such RACISM!
Who said it?
I DISAVOW!*
*That said, Cruz Damnit!!'s analysis is correct**
**That said, I DISAVOW! A am one of the good White people!
Posted by: Anti Antifa at June 29, 2016 01:12 PM (6Z+wC)
309
The Democrats are running, as their presumptive candidate, the operator of a money-laundering racket barely disguised as a "foundation." Her self-serving lies and cronyism goes back to before Americans every heard of the Rose Law Firm, cattle futures, Travelgate, and bimbo eruptions. She's left a trail of dead bodies behind her that doesn't end with four brave Americans and a dead corruptocrat under a barbell. She has been paid, and richly, by nations overseas that mean us harm. She has enabled Russia to corner the market on our uranium, bled Haiti dry for her brother, and been paid millions of dollars by the world's biggest exporter of Wahhabist Islamothuggery. She has shared this nation's intelligence secrets with our sworn enemies for personal gain.
And we can't get half of America to not vote for her? Judas Priest, how far behind the Democrats would the GOP be if the Democrats were running someone competent, someone with a full ration of personal integrity, who loved this country?
Not that they have anyone who meets that description, mind you; that's just a hypothetical.
And we can't get half of America to not vote for her? Judas Priest, how far behind the Democrats would the GOP be if the Democrats were running someone competent, someone with a full ration of personal integrity, who loved this country?
Not that they have anyone who meets that description, mind you; that's just a hypothetical.
Posted by: Qoheleth DIXIT at June 29, 2016 01:13 PM (iIzG7)
310
Please correct yourself. Pennsylvania is not in play. All you need to know is that 100 of 300 court ordered poll observers were not allowed entry into the voting precinct at the orders of democrat precinct captains in the 2012 election, most of whom live out of state. The court order was signed by the president judge, and promptly ignored with no repercussions.
Voter ID was shot down as the last minute...and there is no accountability to stop, much less assess, voter fraud. Pennsylvania is vastly out of play...and will remain so regardless of what any poll tells you.
Voter ID was shot down as the last minute...and there is no accountability to stop, much less assess, voter fraud. Pennsylvania is vastly out of play...and will remain so regardless of what any poll tells you.
Posted by: Orson at June 29, 2016 01:13 PM (h5Wkq)
311
Noods on first!
Posted by: andycanuck at June 29, 2016 01:15 PM (A/+my)
312
Cruz's biggest problem is he just sort of assumes everyone is already a conservative and he just needs to be the most "pure" one and he'll automatically win.
That, and he has just an incredibly oft putting demeanor and speaking style.
His ideology for the most part was perfect, but I do think he would have lost to Hillary.
Had Cruz been a true border hawk early on, he would have been the nominee. Instead, he had a last minute conversion on the issue that was forced on him because of Trump.
That, and he has just an incredibly oft putting demeanor and speaking style.
His ideology for the most part was perfect, but I do think he would have lost to Hillary.
Had Cruz been a true border hawk early on, he would have been the nominee. Instead, he had a last minute conversion on the issue that was forced on him because of Trump.
Posted by: Maritime at June 29, 2016 01:15 PM (3bOpa)
313
Or you can keep listening to geniuses like Tom Friedman talk about the wisdom he gets from taxi drivers.
Posted by: JackStraw at June 29, 2016 01:06 PM (/tuJf)
I see your problem, Jack. You spend too much time fighting off the urge to "keep listening to geniuses like Tom Friedman."
I stopped paying attention to Tom Friedman about 2 decades ago.
Posted by: JackStraw at June 29, 2016 01:06 PM (/tuJf)
I see your problem, Jack. You spend too much time fighting off the urge to "keep listening to geniuses like Tom Friedman."
I stopped paying attention to Tom Friedman about 2 decades ago.
Posted by: BurtTC at June 29, 2016 01:15 PM (TOk1P)
314
@300 "BTW - Let me remind people what "Conservatism" stands for now:"
Spot on. Conservatism splintered between SoCons, and promoting BigBusiness interests. But BigBusiness is now aligned with Big Government and increasingly the cultural prerogatives of the Left. So Conservatism is now spent as a political force.
Spot on. Conservatism splintered between SoCons, and promoting BigBusiness interests. But BigBusiness is now aligned with Big Government and increasingly the cultural prerogatives of the Left. So Conservatism is now spent as a political force.
Posted by: Ignoramus at June 29, 2016 01:15 PM (r1fLd)
315
//Fuck you stupid Eeyoreys up the fucking ass.//
Ace cited the Q poll incorrectly. Hill is ahead by TWO POINTS--not four.
And yet, despite numerous corrections from members of the Horde, the headline remains unchanged.
Watsupwiddat?
Ace cited the Q poll incorrectly. Hill is ahead by TWO POINTS--not four.
And yet, despite numerous corrections from members of the Horde, the headline remains unchanged.
Watsupwiddat?
Posted by: Anti Antifa at June 29, 2016 01:16 PM (6Z+wC)
316
Clean-up on aisle 299, please.
Posted by: Margarita DeVille at June 29, 2016 01:16 PM (T/5A0)
Posted by: Anti Antifa at June 29, 2016 01:17 PM (6Z+wC)
318
And STILL some people blame low Republican turnout.
Its a comforting lie, to avoid facing that the nation has turned against its founding and ideals.
Its a comforting lie, to avoid facing that the nation has turned against its founding and ideals.
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at June 29, 2016 01:17 PM (39g3+)
319
Expecting Gowdy's investigation to result in some sort of indictment or anything like that is foolish. What it should have done, however, is give the Republicans the ammo they need to cut State Department funding. The response from every Republican congresscritter should be, "Why are we paying $66 billion for incompetence. We'll restore funding when 50% of the State Department management either quits or is fired."
Posted by: Colorado Alex at June 29, 2016 01:19 PM (LUG6K)
320
//Clean-up on aisle 299, please.//
I demand that that poster disavow his post and also disavow David Duke and neonazism.
Y'all got a disavowal?
Me? I have a disavowal.
And I disavow.
I demand that that poster disavow his post and also disavow David Duke and neonazism.
Y'all got a disavowal?
Me? I have a disavowal.
And I disavow.
Posted by: Anti Antifa at June 29, 2016 01:21 PM (6Z+wC)
321
Over/under he'll mention Islam?
OK, if he mentions it, over/under it's to clarify that these terrorists were not true Muslims, racist!?
Posted by: Lizzy
It puts an interesting question to the JEF. If he doesn't mention it, he can sure Trump will stick it up his ass. If he DOES mention it, he looks like he's doing it pre-emptively to prevent a rerun of the "radical Islam" kerfuffle of a week or two ago, when Trump stuck it up his ass.
Same thing will Hillary. Hillary and Obongo are in a no-win situation vis a vis Islamic terrorist attacks, because Trump staked out the high ground.
OK, if he mentions it, over/under it's to clarify that these terrorists were not true Muslims, racist!?
Posted by: Lizzy
It puts an interesting question to the JEF. If he doesn't mention it, he can sure Trump will stick it up his ass. If he DOES mention it, he looks like he's doing it pre-emptively to prevent a rerun of the "radical Islam" kerfuffle of a week or two ago, when Trump stuck it up his ass.
Same thing will Hillary. Hillary and Obongo are in a no-win situation vis a vis Islamic terrorist attacks, because Trump staked out the high ground.
Posted by: Jay Guevara at June 29, 2016 01:23 PM (oKE6c)
322
And STILL some people blame low Republican turnout.
Its a comforting lie, to avoid facing that the nation has turned against its founding and ideals.
Posted by: Christopher Taylor
Then where did Bush's 2004 voters go?
The total votes were down in 2012 significantly despite 8 years of a population increase.
I'm not saying that means we're a conservative nation, but Bush Sr in 1988 got significantly more total votes than Reagan did in 1980.
Its a comforting lie, to avoid facing that the nation has turned against its founding and ideals.
Posted by: Christopher Taylor
Then where did Bush's 2004 voters go?
The total votes were down in 2012 significantly despite 8 years of a population increase.
I'm not saying that means we're a conservative nation, but Bush Sr in 1988 got significantly more total votes than Reagan did in 1980.
Posted by: Maritime at June 29, 2016 01:23 PM (3bOpa)
323
Ballotpedia? Snort!
Posted by: The Spelling Police at June 29, 2016 01:23 PM (UlI/7)
324
314---I agree completely. I still believe most thinking adults are innate "conservatives" but it's a hard sell to translate that into actual votes at election time. Big Business only cares about BUSINESS.
Posted by: JoeF. at June 29, 2016 01:24 PM (KLTo2)
325
I took this poll, and it was laughable.
Who do I trust more with nuclear weapons, Hillary or Trump?
An entire section on guns (assault weapons), gun laws, gun violence, with NO good choices among the answers.
An entire section on potential VP candidates (none by name): would I be very enthusiastic, somewhat enthusiastic, somewaht discouraged, or very discouraged by a Latino? Black? Gay? Transgender? and so on through the victim groups.
I told the woman several times that the question(s) were push polling, but NO, Qunnipiac is a UNIVERSITY, and this is completely NONPARTISAN.
And she didn't know who was paying for it, until I said she had to say, and then she told me about the university etc.
I said, well, universities seem to be having their own issues these days, don't they?
Who do I trust more with nuclear weapons, Hillary or Trump?
An entire section on guns (assault weapons), gun laws, gun violence, with NO good choices among the answers.
An entire section on potential VP candidates (none by name): would I be very enthusiastic, somewhat enthusiastic, somewaht discouraged, or very discouraged by a Latino? Black? Gay? Transgender? and so on through the victim groups.
I told the woman several times that the question(s) were push polling, but NO, Qunnipiac is a UNIVERSITY, and this is completely NONPARTISAN.
And she didn't know who was paying for it, until I said she had to say, and then she told me about the university etc.
I said, well, universities seem to be having their own issues these days, don't they?
Posted by: barbarausa at June 29, 2016 01:42 PM (h3IJ6)
326
"REMAIN" IS UP 10 POINTS. FUCK!!!!
Posted by: LAST WEEK'S NEWS at June 29, 2016 01:44 PM (HrQJ2)
327
To those complaining about how a candidate who should be in prison has at least a 50-50 chance of becoming president, have you considered that the GOP is just plain lousy? The country is sinking, and almost no GOP politicians offer anything other than what Big Business wants, except for some insincere promises to social conservatives or gun owners. Instead of post-mortems that show that Hispanic faces are needed, they need to offer something that will make the country better. And they can't do it. If the GOP controlled the Presidency, Congress, and had, say, seven of the appointments on the Supreme Court, do you really think they could fix the mess? For one thing, they don't even recognize that the country is in a mess. They don't care that the infrastructure is second-rate. They don't care if trillions got spent in the Middle East on illusory projects. They are basically just a version of the useless EU nomenklatura - and they even have the same arrogance to think that we need them. Even a criminal would be way better. The only problem with Hillary is that she has the same mindset as the GOP elite, but with the Leftist social agenda. At least she is willing to fight for something like lesbian so-called rights. What is Rubio willing to fight for?
Posted by: Lance at June 29, 2016 02:01 PM (EJKgG)
328
Of the 17 polls done in 1980, Reagan was ahead in only four.
Posted by: shibumi who is awaiting SMOD at June 29, 2016 02:16 PM (tvyXw)
329
"It's an undeniable fact.
Vote totals
Bush 2004 62,040,610
Mitt Romney 2012 60,933,500
Had Romney got that same voter base, he likely would have won
Where did the "Bush coalition" go?"
Many of them died.
The obvious answer is that that many more than 2 million voters in the 65+ age bracket died between 2004 and 2012. Meanwhile many more liberal young voters became eligible to vote. Republicans are facing demographic doom, and Cheeto Jesus is just making the problem worse, his numbers among young voters are just as bad as his numbers among women and minorities.
Vote totals
Bush 2004 62,040,610
Mitt Romney 2012 60,933,500
Had Romney got that same voter base, he likely would have won
Where did the "Bush coalition" go?"
Many of them died.
The obvious answer is that that many more than 2 million voters in the 65+ age bracket died between 2004 and 2012. Meanwhile many more liberal young voters became eligible to vote. Republicans are facing demographic doom, and Cheeto Jesus is just making the problem worse, his numbers among young voters are just as bad as his numbers among women and minorities.
Posted by: tommyvee at June 29, 2016 02:29 PM (zMJol)
330
272
You know why Trump is losing? Because of so-called conservative
fucktards in the nevertrump camp. If all these cry baby assholes stopped
throwing their tantrums, he'd easily win.
Posted by: Monsieur Moo Moo at June 29, 2016 01:02 PM (0LHZx)
This is pure fantasy. He's losing because he's a shit candidate everywhere except Ohio and Pennsylvania. He refuses to fund raise seriously (if his primary voters were as politically invested as much of the punditry about blue collar whites suggests, they'd be funding him with small donations), he steps all over news stories on immigration and Hillary's corruption that he should be exploiting for all they're worth by making new, embarrassing news stories about himself, he focuses resources on ego flattering wins like California and New York over winnable states, he uses his general election platform for personal bullshit like new golf courses, the Trump U case, and insulting Republicans he had a primary rivalry with, and generally acting way less like he gives a shit than you people posting cost-free, anonymous comments in niche internet forums. He loses most of the polling advantages Republicans get on issues like terrorism, because the Democrat beats him just by being able to present themself as an adult.
Trump entered the general election polling with the same levels of party unity behind him as Romney had ( http://tinyurl.com/hlxqdk2 ). In the few weeks right after that, most dissenters got on board with him, at least tepidly, and the RNC has thrown its weight and at least the appearance of enthusiastic support behind him, actively trying to block defectors. NeverTrump is tiny, and not terribly different from other meaningless party dissident movements like PUMA, at least in the context of a general election in a presidential election year. He's not losing because of Paul Ryan or Ben Shapiro, he's losing because major demographics like married women (traditionally a big Republican demographic) and every racial minority (mostly Democrat-leaning, but still important to do competently with) are fleeing from him in mass, and neither he nor his supporters are trying to communicate to those groups. As a big fan angry white guy political sites myself, you still have to realize that people not reading those sites aren't nearly as mad about the Obama presidency. Trump's media presence (and its eclipsing of non-Trump political news) has single-handedly created a massive increase in Obama's approval rating, to the point where he is now officially ending a term he mostly spent below water in approval as a popular president, and it's only going to go up as people's short memories fade. This in itself is a huge advantage for Hillary in 2016 that she shouldn't have. This isn't an argument against supporting Trump in 2016, but as far as who takes the blame for this stupid Hail Mary move that we all told you in the primaries was really stupid, that's on Team Trump. You promised us legions of overlooked blue collar white voters, so let's see you bring them to the polls.
You know why Trump is losing? Because of so-called conservative
fucktards in the nevertrump camp. If all these cry baby assholes stopped
throwing their tantrums, he'd easily win.
Posted by: Monsieur Moo Moo at June 29, 2016 01:02 PM (0LHZx)
This is pure fantasy. He's losing because he's a shit candidate everywhere except Ohio and Pennsylvania. He refuses to fund raise seriously (if his primary voters were as politically invested as much of the punditry about blue collar whites suggests, they'd be funding him with small donations), he steps all over news stories on immigration and Hillary's corruption that he should be exploiting for all they're worth by making new, embarrassing news stories about himself, he focuses resources on ego flattering wins like California and New York over winnable states, he uses his general election platform for personal bullshit like new golf courses, the Trump U case, and insulting Republicans he had a primary rivalry with, and generally acting way less like he gives a shit than you people posting cost-free, anonymous comments in niche internet forums. He loses most of the polling advantages Republicans get on issues like terrorism, because the Democrat beats him just by being able to present themself as an adult.
Trump entered the general election polling with the same levels of party unity behind him as Romney had ( http://tinyurl.com/hlxqdk2 ). In the few weeks right after that, most dissenters got on board with him, at least tepidly, and the RNC has thrown its weight and at least the appearance of enthusiastic support behind him, actively trying to block defectors. NeverTrump is tiny, and not terribly different from other meaningless party dissident movements like PUMA, at least in the context of a general election in a presidential election year. He's not losing because of Paul Ryan or Ben Shapiro, he's losing because major demographics like married women (traditionally a big Republican demographic) and every racial minority (mostly Democrat-leaning, but still important to do competently with) are fleeing from him in mass, and neither he nor his supporters are trying to communicate to those groups. As a big fan angry white guy political sites myself, you still have to realize that people not reading those sites aren't nearly as mad about the Obama presidency. Trump's media presence (and its eclipsing of non-Trump political news) has single-handedly created a massive increase in Obama's approval rating, to the point where he is now officially ending a term he mostly spent below water in approval as a popular president, and it's only going to go up as people's short memories fade. This in itself is a huge advantage for Hillary in 2016 that she shouldn't have. This isn't an argument against supporting Trump in 2016, but as far as who takes the blame for this stupid Hail Mary move that we all told you in the primaries was really stupid, that's on Team Trump. You promised us legions of overlooked blue collar white voters, so let's see you bring them to the polls.
Posted by: reform highlander at June 29, 2016 02:34 PM (jCH/T)
Posted by: Bidung at June 29, 2016 02:36 PM (hsHkH)
332
Let us all remember Ace's homoerotic paens to Rick Perry.
What would he be polling against the Pantload, shitbrain?
Also, Pantload has spent about a hundred mil; Trump next to nothing--and he's still probably leading, as he tends to over perform his polls.
Sheesh
What would he be polling against the Pantload, shitbrain?
Also, Pantload has spent about a hundred mil; Trump next to nothing--and he's still probably leading, as he tends to over perform his polls.
Sheesh
Posted by: Bidung at June 29, 2016 02:41 PM (hsHkH)
333
Ace, everyone who is paying attention knows you're either concern trolling or just have the delicate sensibilities of a little girl. Man up, dude. Or get a new psy-ops playbook.
Posted by: Zodiac Killer at June 29, 2016 02:44 PM (kwHPo)
334
Sorry Ace, Today's Q poll is: 42 to 40 with 'H' getting the 42
.
You quoted the old one.
"Too close to call" as they said.
.
You quoted the old one.
"Too close to call" as they said.
Posted by: svensweden at June 29, 2016 02:45 PM (jShXB)
335
Many of them died.
The obvious answer is that that many more than 2 million voters in
the 65+ age bracket died between 2004 and 2012. Meanwhile many more
liberal young voters became eligible to vote. Republicans are facing
demographic doom, and Cheeto Jesus is just making the problem worse, his
numbers among young voters are just as bad as his numbers among women
and minorities.
Posted by: tommyvee at June 29, 2016 02:29 PM (zMJol)
This is an important point. If principled arguments against Trump are just preening vanity and social signaling, what about this? Do we really want to never be able to at least use principled arguments in addressing the public, without having a glaring advertisement of how compromised and hypocritical we are on such matters? May be too late to walk back that one. A lot of sins in politics will be mercifully forgotten by the public over the next 10-20 years, but I doubt they're gonna forget that Trump was the Republican candidate for president once.
Assuming we want to still try to push social conservatism (which, even if it's unpopular, pushing more married couples with kids means pushing more conservative-leaning demographics who don't have the free time to binge watch John Oliver because they're busy raising kids), we'll never be able to say "the sanctity of marriage" with any persuasion again, that's for sure. We probably are gonna have a much harder time talking about restraints on the executive, on government, etc. as well. And that's just without assuming that his candidacy is possibly as disastrous (maybe even just subjectively disastrous, due to strong media bias, which hurts us just the same) as his general election fund-raising operations and campaign infrastructure or his non-accredited university. We can argue it's worth it for keeping Hillary out of office, but don't pretend that the next 4 years are the only thing at stake here.
The obvious answer is that that many more than 2 million voters in
the 65+ age bracket died between 2004 and 2012. Meanwhile many more
liberal young voters became eligible to vote. Republicans are facing
demographic doom, and Cheeto Jesus is just making the problem worse, his
numbers among young voters are just as bad as his numbers among women
and minorities.
Posted by: tommyvee at June 29, 2016 02:29 PM (zMJol)
This is an important point. If principled arguments against Trump are just preening vanity and social signaling, what about this? Do we really want to never be able to at least use principled arguments in addressing the public, without having a glaring advertisement of how compromised and hypocritical we are on such matters? May be too late to walk back that one. A lot of sins in politics will be mercifully forgotten by the public over the next 10-20 years, but I doubt they're gonna forget that Trump was the Republican candidate for president once.
Assuming we want to still try to push social conservatism (which, even if it's unpopular, pushing more married couples with kids means pushing more conservative-leaning demographics who don't have the free time to binge watch John Oliver because they're busy raising kids), we'll never be able to say "the sanctity of marriage" with any persuasion again, that's for sure. We probably are gonna have a much harder time talking about restraints on the executive, on government, etc. as well. And that's just without assuming that his candidacy is possibly as disastrous (maybe even just subjectively disastrous, due to strong media bias, which hurts us just the same) as his general election fund-raising operations and campaign infrastructure or his non-accredited university. We can argue it's worth it for keeping Hillary out of office, but don't pretend that the next 4 years are the only thing at stake here.
Posted by: reform highlander at June 29, 2016 02:52 PM (jCH/T)
336
Why don't all the whiny little shits who crap their pants with the release of a new poll (many of which are designed to manipulate you, by the way) go sit in a corner and drink their fucking yoo-hoo?
It sure would be nice to have a little courage, no? Wow, 2016 has revealed how weak Conservatives are. Embarrassing.
Don't worry, though, the grownups will take back this country. Whether some of you want it or not.
It sure would be nice to have a little courage, no? Wow, 2016 has revealed how weak Conservatives are. Embarrassing.
Don't worry, though, the grownups will take back this country. Whether some of you want it or not.
Posted by: Zodiac Killer at June 29, 2016 02:57 PM (kwHPo)
337
336
Why don't all the whiny little shits who crap their pants with the
release of a new poll (many of which are designed to manipulate you, by
the way) go sit in a corner and drink their fucking yoo-hoo?
It sure would be nice to have a little courage, no? Wow, 2016 has revealed how weak Conservatives are. Embarrassing.
Don't worry, though, the grownups will take back this country. Whether some of you want it or not.
Posted by: Zodiac Killer at June 29, 2016 02:57 PM (kwHPo)
You don't need none of them statistics and book-learnin' to win, just some can-do spirit and gumption! Now if you ladies are just gonna sit around preening yourselves, we Real Men are gonna strap up and get to work fixin' this country! * Spends the next five hours complaining about cuckservatives in the Breitbart comments sections *
Why don't all the whiny little shits who crap their pants with the
release of a new poll (many of which are designed to manipulate you, by
the way) go sit in a corner and drink their fucking yoo-hoo?
It sure would be nice to have a little courage, no? Wow, 2016 has revealed how weak Conservatives are. Embarrassing.
Don't worry, though, the grownups will take back this country. Whether some of you want it or not.
Posted by: Zodiac Killer at June 29, 2016 02:57 PM (kwHPo)
You don't need none of them statistics and book-learnin' to win, just some can-do spirit and gumption! Now if you ladies are just gonna sit around preening yourselves, we Real Men are gonna strap up and get to work fixin' this country! * Spends the next five hours complaining about cuckservatives in the Breitbart comments sections *
Posted by: reform highlander at June 29, 2016 03:27 PM (jCH/T)
338
As the resident eyore, I'm impressed. I have to wonder if the guy upthread is right that Hillary ads might backfire. I saw some online ones and they made me want to puke.
Posted by: Sexypig at June 29, 2016 03:33 PM (42BEi)
339
What you continue to not understand is that there are millions of suburban democrats who will vote for Trump. The media would like to portray any traditional democrat voting for trump as from the holler and married to their siblings. There are plenty of upper middle class democrats who are nauseous over what the progressives have done. We understand that they are economically illiterate and devoid of any sense of honesty, ethics, or accountability. Clinton will never get our vote.
Posted by: Flowerbelle at June 29, 2016 03:38 PM (KZdWP)
Posted by: Old codger at June 29, 2016 03:56 PM (fpd99)
341
//If principled arguments against Trump are just preening vanity and social signaling, what about this?//
Principled arguments against Trump (or any candidate) are not, per se, social signaling and vanity. But there are reasons many suspect the principle-based arguments against Trump (inasmuch as they actually exist) are pretextual, and that the underlying opposition doesn't have a lot to do with principles. Some of those reasons include, but are not limited to, the following:
1: Virtually all ostensibly principled arguments against Trump could have been made just as easily against Bush, McCain, and Romney, but, for some mysterious reason, weren't. At least, not by the same people. This point really can't be overstated. I put it first because it's the most important. For instance, if a person doesn't like Trump's views on defamation law--which, for reasons that should be all too obvious, have literally zero chance of becoming law if he is elected--and won't vote for Trump because of it, but voted for McCain despite the McCain-Feingold bill, that person cannot and should not be taken seriously. That person is a dummy or a liar or both. Imminent domain? Please. George W. Bush used it to build a stadium. Healthcare? Two words: Mitt Romney. Don't like that Trump has been divorced? Two more words: Ronald Reagan. Worried that Trump might increase the size of the federal government? Two words and a middle initial: George W. Bush.
2: Most of the opposition to Trump is observably NOT based on principles. It's based on air horn words--"racist," "fascist," "bigot," "sexist," "clown"--hand-size jokes, orange-tan jokes, and a series of confections and nontroversies that would not be seriously indulged by conservatives if any other candidate had won the GOP nomination. The "Mexican judge" brouhaha, and the Michelle Fields incident--charges so flimsy they were eventually dropped by a Democrat prosecutor--are perfect examples. The simple truth is that even on a good day the general tenor of Trump's critics sounds less principled than the insult-laden Twitter feed of Donald Trump himself.
3. Their position makes no sense, logically. The literal position of NeverTrump is this: "Donald Trump is lying about the things he says that I would otherwise approve of, and there is no chance he is not. Also, he is telling the truth about all the things he says that I disapprove of, and there is no chance that he is not. Therefore, it's not that bad if he loses to Hillary" That makes no sense.
So, those are some of the reasons so many people think Trump opposition is about social signaling and vanity. Now, this does not apply to everybody. I'm sure there are people out there who didn't vote for Bush on principle, didn't vote for McCain on principle, didn't vote for Romney on principle, and now will also not vote for Trump on principle. But that's not the majority of anti-Trumpers on the GOP side. Not even close.
//Do we really want to never be able to at least use principled arguments in addressing the public, without having a glaring advertisement of how compromised and hypocritical we are on such matters?//
Well, if we can't because of Trump, then, well, we couldn't have anyway. (See above.)
//We can argue it's worth it for keeping Hillary out of office, but don't pretend that the next 4 years are the only thing at stake here.//
Oh, I agree. The next 4 years definitely aren't the only thing that matters. That's why I support Trump. If Hillary gets to reshape the Supreme Court, nothing beyond those four years will matter either.
Principled arguments against Trump (or any candidate) are not, per se, social signaling and vanity. But there are reasons many suspect the principle-based arguments against Trump (inasmuch as they actually exist) are pretextual, and that the underlying opposition doesn't have a lot to do with principles. Some of those reasons include, but are not limited to, the following:
1: Virtually all ostensibly principled arguments against Trump could have been made just as easily against Bush, McCain, and Romney, but, for some mysterious reason, weren't. At least, not by the same people. This point really can't be overstated. I put it first because it's the most important. For instance, if a person doesn't like Trump's views on defamation law--which, for reasons that should be all too obvious, have literally zero chance of becoming law if he is elected--and won't vote for Trump because of it, but voted for McCain despite the McCain-Feingold bill, that person cannot and should not be taken seriously. That person is a dummy or a liar or both. Imminent domain? Please. George W. Bush used it to build a stadium. Healthcare? Two words: Mitt Romney. Don't like that Trump has been divorced? Two more words: Ronald Reagan. Worried that Trump might increase the size of the federal government? Two words and a middle initial: George W. Bush.
2: Most of the opposition to Trump is observably NOT based on principles. It's based on air horn words--"racist," "fascist," "bigot," "sexist," "clown"--hand-size jokes, orange-tan jokes, and a series of confections and nontroversies that would not be seriously indulged by conservatives if any other candidate had won the GOP nomination. The "Mexican judge" brouhaha, and the Michelle Fields incident--charges so flimsy they were eventually dropped by a Democrat prosecutor--are perfect examples. The simple truth is that even on a good day the general tenor of Trump's critics sounds less principled than the insult-laden Twitter feed of Donald Trump himself.
3. Their position makes no sense, logically. The literal position of NeverTrump is this: "Donald Trump is lying about the things he says that I would otherwise approve of, and there is no chance he is not. Also, he is telling the truth about all the things he says that I disapprove of, and there is no chance that he is not. Therefore, it's not that bad if he loses to Hillary" That makes no sense.
So, those are some of the reasons so many people think Trump opposition is about social signaling and vanity. Now, this does not apply to everybody. I'm sure there are people out there who didn't vote for Bush on principle, didn't vote for McCain on principle, didn't vote for Romney on principle, and now will also not vote for Trump on principle. But that's not the majority of anti-Trumpers on the GOP side. Not even close.
//Do we really want to never be able to at least use principled arguments in addressing the public, without having a glaring advertisement of how compromised and hypocritical we are on such matters?//
Well, if we can't because of Trump, then, well, we couldn't have anyway. (See above.)
//We can argue it's worth it for keeping Hillary out of office, but don't pretend that the next 4 years are the only thing at stake here.//
Oh, I agree. The next 4 years definitely aren't the only thing that matters. That's why I support Trump. If Hillary gets to reshape the Supreme Court, nothing beyond those four years will matter either.
Posted by: Anti Antifa at June 29, 2016 04:04 PM (DZcVV)
342
Did someone remove Ace's spine or was he born without one?
Posted by: Joe Maga at June 29, 2016 04:22 PM (MJ+Jp)
343
Hey Ace why would you not expect this to be the high point of Clinton's numbers before Trump starts spending any money and Hillary has been in the millions?
You bloggers especially can't seem to get your heads around we are in not only uncharted waters with Trump but a campaign that likely won't follow a pattern like other Republican-Democrat contests.
I would compare it to the Brexit vote where on the one side you have the ruling elite and the media pounding people about doing something against their will and on the other side a much smaller set of media and open supporters who are willing to brave the slings and arrows of the hostility aimed at them.
America much like Britain will stay out of the line of fire but closer to the election day will start to turn on the status quo especially when OUR side has the money to start running some Clinton Cash, Benghazi, Etc ads in Battleground states.
You bloggers especially can't seem to get your heads around we are in not only uncharted waters with Trump but a campaign that likely won't follow a pattern like other Republican-Democrat contests.
I would compare it to the Brexit vote where on the one side you have the ruling elite and the media pounding people about doing something against their will and on the other side a much smaller set of media and open supporters who are willing to brave the slings and arrows of the hostility aimed at them.
America much like Britain will stay out of the line of fire but closer to the election day will start to turn on the status quo especially when OUR side has the money to start running some Clinton Cash, Benghazi, Etc ads in Battleground states.
Posted by: qwe301 at June 29, 2016 04:29 PM (mFahs)
344
o noes. sheesh. the shrill harridan has peaked. Teh Donald will only go up as his message gets through the presstitute's filters.
Posted by: oddnot frets not but sighs at June 29, 2016 05:54 PM (g1MTt)
345
Posted by: Anti Antifa at June 29, 2016 04:04 PM (DZcVV)
This is actually the first decent, thoughtful, respectful direct response I've gotten in arguing with Trump fans in comment sections. Thank you.
"1: Virtually all ostensibly principled arguments against Trump could
have been made just as easily against Bush, McCain, and Romney, but,
for some mysterious reason, weren't. At least, not by the same people.
This point really can't be overstated. I put it first because it's the
most important. For instance, if a person doesn't like Trump's views on
defamation law--which, for reasons that should be all too obvious, have
literally zero chance of becoming law if he is elected--and won't vote
for Trump because of it, but voted for McCain despite the
McCain-Feingold bill, that person cannot and should not be taken
seriously. That person is a dummy or a liar or both. Imminent domain?
Please. George W. Bush used it to build a stadium. Healthcare? Two
words: Mitt Romney. Don't like that Trump has been divorced? Two more
words: Ronald Reagan. Worried that Trump might increase the size of the
federal government? Two words and a middle initial: George W. Bush.
"
This depends on which criticism we're talking about. Being squishy on conservatism is a valid criticism of all three, sure. Being persistently selfishly immoral in his personal conduct is a critique only of Trump and maybe McCain a bit (which one could argue is irrelevant in the political sphere, but I think that's an open question). I would argue that there's a massive difference between Reagan divorcing and marrying a woman he loves, versus Trump repeatedly replacing his trophy wives with imported women from the Eastern Bloc his daughters age. If you accept Ivana's testimony regarding their divorce as accurate, which I know most Trump supporters don't but you're trying to convince some of us who lean towards believing it, it gets even worse. Then there's his public behavior of praising mistresses and denouncing his wife while still married.
And there's questions of context with a lot of these points. We gave Bush a lot of leeway we shouldn't have because the war on terror felt like a justifiable priority, and pragmatic policies Romney implemented as governor of the bluest state in the union don't strike me personally as an indictment of him, but I wouldn't hold it against anyone else for voting third party over it, because to me that's their prerogative. If McCain or a Bush were our candidate this year, I probably would pass on voting for them. Personally, I would happily and enthusiastically vote for a squishy moderate if I thought they'd be good PR for conservatism among the general public, as I think someone like Giuliani (am adulterer himself) the implicit converse of that would be not supporting them
"2: Most of the opposition to Trump is observably NOT based on
principles. It's based on air horn words--"racist," "fascist," "bigot,"
"sexist," "clown"--hand-size jokes, orange-tan jokes, and a series of
confections and nontroversies that would not be seriously indulged by
conservatives if any other candidate had won the GOP nomination. The
"Mexican judge" brouhaha, and the Michelle Fields incident--charges so
flimsy they were eventually dropped by a Democrat prosecutor--are
perfect examples. The simple truth is that even on a good day the
general tenor of Trump's critics sounds less principled than the
insult-laden Twitter feed of Donald Trump himself."
I agree that orange tan jokes are just rude dick-ishness (but fair game in light of Team Trump rude dick-ishness and the man's decades long history of insulting statements, this is just the political culture in our country that all factions are guilty of), and that accusations of racism and bigotry are mischaracterizing Trump's doofus lack of sensitivity across all topics as malice when it comes to the topic of race. I think "fascism" is overstated, Trump is hardly so ideologically coherent. But I think the toughness worship, the populist Strong Leader stuff, in his and his supporters rhetoric definitely legitimately invites the comparison, even if the bald accusation of fascism goes too far (and I'll grant, many of the comparisons are true of populist movements generally). His publicly voiced support for power moves by the authoritarian leaders of Russia and China also makes the characterization, at least worth discussing. As someone indifferent to accusations of sexism in any cases that don't involve legal disparity between the sexes, but who does believe in chivalry towards woman, I wouldn't use the term "sexist" but I certainly am contemptuous of his behavior towards women, especially in the context of him as a representative of the conservative faction of Americans. I'd rather conservative commentators not use the word "sexist", or similar leftist buzzwords, but otherwise I think critiquing his behavior towards women and even dismissing supporting him over it is at least perfectly fair behavior for conservatives to engage in or advocate for. On "clown", this is absolutely a fair critique of Trump (at least, in it's elaborated on form), and I think this is pretty important to discuss within the party, even if we wind up unifying behind Trump in the general (which, for the most part, we're already there in numbers, even if we can maybe speculate that that's new or unreliable voters filling in for the rather small whole left by 4 digit numbers of NeverTrumpers).
Dismissing the the "Mexican judge" comments or the Michelle Fields incidences as frivolous ignores a lot (again, you can argue it's worth ignoring in the face of a prospective HRC presidency, but again from the point of view of convincing dissidents, you can't ignore it). I mean, I certainly am not offended by Trump being ungraceful on racial issues, as far as the anti-PC advocacy goes, I'm pretty on board that a dumb idiot 70-yr old being suspicious of a judge on grounds of racial bias should not be a matter of even mild national offense. I'm actually a fan of a fair number of alt-right writers who have (inexplicably to me, at least in cases where it isn't highly couched in qualifiers like Ace's) hopped on Team Trump. Before I found it encompassed so many douche bags and Storm Front types, I considered myself a fan of the alt-right, and will probably go back to reading them when they get over this phase of surreal, no introspection Trump boosterism. But that wasn't all Trump did here. He cock-blocked what should have been a conservative friendly week, which included (at least the previous week did) news on Hillary's e-mail server. His position offended me because it was too dumb, and insulting of my intelligence (I assume almost everyone realizes that a biased judge is something your lawyers should be able to address procedurally, and Trump should certainly be able to afford the legal resources to do so), and because Team Trump keeps insisting I believe obvious lies. Maybe some right-leaning pundits are more colonized by PC culture and think it's racist, but plenty of us Trump skeptics aren't and don't, and still found this a big mark against Trump. He also demonstrated that his primary interests were himself rather than his coalition, and that it's impossible for him to exercise discipline when it would be wise to serve his campaign or his constituents. It shows he has disastrous judgment. Same with Michelle Fields. It was obviously a non-incident in of itself, aside from establishing that Lewandowski is an aggressive dickhead, which, whatever, plenty in politics are. But the aggressive lies and behavior towards Fields from supporters in the public and within the campaign, and Trump's doubling down on all of that reveals a lot, and some of us care quite a lot about what it reveals (fair enough if you don't, you're certainly not accountable to any of us Trump skeptics).
Maybe me being offended by the the quality of lies told by the campaign is masturbatory vanity, 1.) why shouldn't I be granted the same leeway in exercising my vanities as Trump is his? You can argue that hair plugs, mail-order trophy wives, and embarrassing inflations of his personal net worth won't give us Hillary 2016, but his running a vanity campaign for president is what made a Hillary presidency a lot more viable, based on polling numbers (which, even if inaccurate, are more accurate than gut assessments of the political inclinations of hundreds of millions of strangers). You can argue that that's splitting hairs at this point, but I would say not so until after the July convention, and also for some of us our expectations of a Trump presidency are not significantly less disastrous than our expectations for president Hillary, especially when you factor in Trump being a 2-term commitment, so you still have to argue why you think we're wrong here. And 2.) expecting us to believe obvious non-truths about matters relating to Trump (the judge's bias, Trump's secret genius, the fact that policy positions stated in Republican primaries are reliable but editorial statements opposing the same position during the last term of the Obama admin are not, that his stated charitable causes aren't obvious bullshit, that Michelle Fields story was a fabrication until video forced the downgrade to No Big Deal, that there's millions of blue collar white voters chomping at the bit to vote Trump who are usually missing in general elections, that his businesses (I can't comment so much on his real estate stuff, out of ignorance, other than knowing his sleazy reputation, deserved or not, but stuff like Trump U and Trump vitamins are obviously long establishment exploitative business models that exist throughout the country because it takes a lot of legal resources to prove that what they do is deceptive, or valueless, or illegal) aren't just scams or dumb bullshit that even Hollywood celebrities usually know to do with their money when they're past their earning peak, etc., etc., etc. This sort of Trump advocacy just makes us more concerned about him and the movement behind him. Now, you (Anti Antifa) made a legitimate, good faith argument, so I'm not accusing you of this stuff, but you should understand why such things horrify us Trump skeptics. Seeing this behavior on the right on such a broad scale is positively surreal to many of us, and if you think it's no big deal you should argue why (which Ace has done a bit, but not nearly so much as he's done angry ranting at people on Twitter who I don't follow enough to get why they're annoying him).
This is actually the first decent, thoughtful, respectful direct response I've gotten in arguing with Trump fans in comment sections. Thank you.
"1: Virtually all ostensibly principled arguments against Trump could
have been made just as easily against Bush, McCain, and Romney, but,
for some mysterious reason, weren't. At least, not by the same people.
This point really can't be overstated. I put it first because it's the
most important. For instance, if a person doesn't like Trump's views on
defamation law--which, for reasons that should be all too obvious, have
literally zero chance of becoming law if he is elected--and won't vote
for Trump because of it, but voted for McCain despite the
McCain-Feingold bill, that person cannot and should not be taken
seriously. That person is a dummy or a liar or both. Imminent domain?
Please. George W. Bush used it to build a stadium. Healthcare? Two
words: Mitt Romney. Don't like that Trump has been divorced? Two more
words: Ronald Reagan. Worried that Trump might increase the size of the
federal government? Two words and a middle initial: George W. Bush.
"
This depends on which criticism we're talking about. Being squishy on conservatism is a valid criticism of all three, sure. Being persistently selfishly immoral in his personal conduct is a critique only of Trump and maybe McCain a bit (which one could argue is irrelevant in the political sphere, but I think that's an open question). I would argue that there's a massive difference between Reagan divorcing and marrying a woman he loves, versus Trump repeatedly replacing his trophy wives with imported women from the Eastern Bloc his daughters age. If you accept Ivana's testimony regarding their divorce as accurate, which I know most Trump supporters don't but you're trying to convince some of us who lean towards believing it, it gets even worse. Then there's his public behavior of praising mistresses and denouncing his wife while still married.
And there's questions of context with a lot of these points. We gave Bush a lot of leeway we shouldn't have because the war on terror felt like a justifiable priority, and pragmatic policies Romney implemented as governor of the bluest state in the union don't strike me personally as an indictment of him, but I wouldn't hold it against anyone else for voting third party over it, because to me that's their prerogative. If McCain or a Bush were our candidate this year, I probably would pass on voting for them. Personally, I would happily and enthusiastically vote for a squishy moderate if I thought they'd be good PR for conservatism among the general public, as I think someone like Giuliani (am adulterer himself) the implicit converse of that would be not supporting them
"2: Most of the opposition to Trump is observably NOT based on
principles. It's based on air horn words--"racist," "fascist," "bigot,"
"sexist," "clown"--hand-size jokes, orange-tan jokes, and a series of
confections and nontroversies that would not be seriously indulged by
conservatives if any other candidate had won the GOP nomination. The
"Mexican judge" brouhaha, and the Michelle Fields incident--charges so
flimsy they were eventually dropped by a Democrat prosecutor--are
perfect examples. The simple truth is that even on a good day the
general tenor of Trump's critics sounds less principled than the
insult-laden Twitter feed of Donald Trump himself."
I agree that orange tan jokes are just rude dick-ishness (but fair game in light of Team Trump rude dick-ishness and the man's decades long history of insulting statements, this is just the political culture in our country that all factions are guilty of), and that accusations of racism and bigotry are mischaracterizing Trump's doofus lack of sensitivity across all topics as malice when it comes to the topic of race. I think "fascism" is overstated, Trump is hardly so ideologically coherent. But I think the toughness worship, the populist Strong Leader stuff, in his and his supporters rhetoric definitely legitimately invites the comparison, even if the bald accusation of fascism goes too far (and I'll grant, many of the comparisons are true of populist movements generally). His publicly voiced support for power moves by the authoritarian leaders of Russia and China also makes the characterization, at least worth discussing. As someone indifferent to accusations of sexism in any cases that don't involve legal disparity between the sexes, but who does believe in chivalry towards woman, I wouldn't use the term "sexist" but I certainly am contemptuous of his behavior towards women, especially in the context of him as a representative of the conservative faction of Americans. I'd rather conservative commentators not use the word "sexist", or similar leftist buzzwords, but otherwise I think critiquing his behavior towards women and even dismissing supporting him over it is at least perfectly fair behavior for conservatives to engage in or advocate for. On "clown", this is absolutely a fair critique of Trump (at least, in it's elaborated on form), and I think this is pretty important to discuss within the party, even if we wind up unifying behind Trump in the general (which, for the most part, we're already there in numbers, even if we can maybe speculate that that's new or unreliable voters filling in for the rather small whole left by 4 digit numbers of NeverTrumpers).
Dismissing the the "Mexican judge" comments or the Michelle Fields incidences as frivolous ignores a lot (again, you can argue it's worth ignoring in the face of a prospective HRC presidency, but again from the point of view of convincing dissidents, you can't ignore it). I mean, I certainly am not offended by Trump being ungraceful on racial issues, as far as the anti-PC advocacy goes, I'm pretty on board that a dumb idiot 70-yr old being suspicious of a judge on grounds of racial bias should not be a matter of even mild national offense. I'm actually a fan of a fair number of alt-right writers who have (inexplicably to me, at least in cases where it isn't highly couched in qualifiers like Ace's) hopped on Team Trump. Before I found it encompassed so many douche bags and Storm Front types, I considered myself a fan of the alt-right, and will probably go back to reading them when they get over this phase of surreal, no introspection Trump boosterism. But that wasn't all Trump did here. He cock-blocked what should have been a conservative friendly week, which included (at least the previous week did) news on Hillary's e-mail server. His position offended me because it was too dumb, and insulting of my intelligence (I assume almost everyone realizes that a biased judge is something your lawyers should be able to address procedurally, and Trump should certainly be able to afford the legal resources to do so), and because Team Trump keeps insisting I believe obvious lies. Maybe some right-leaning pundits are more colonized by PC culture and think it's racist, but plenty of us Trump skeptics aren't and don't, and still found this a big mark against Trump. He also demonstrated that his primary interests were himself rather than his coalition, and that it's impossible for him to exercise discipline when it would be wise to serve his campaign or his constituents. It shows he has disastrous judgment. Same with Michelle Fields. It was obviously a non-incident in of itself, aside from establishing that Lewandowski is an aggressive dickhead, which, whatever, plenty in politics are. But the aggressive lies and behavior towards Fields from supporters in the public and within the campaign, and Trump's doubling down on all of that reveals a lot, and some of us care quite a lot about what it reveals (fair enough if you don't, you're certainly not accountable to any of us Trump skeptics).
Maybe me being offended by the the quality of lies told by the campaign is masturbatory vanity, 1.) why shouldn't I be granted the same leeway in exercising my vanities as Trump is his? You can argue that hair plugs, mail-order trophy wives, and embarrassing inflations of his personal net worth won't give us Hillary 2016, but his running a vanity campaign for president is what made a Hillary presidency a lot more viable, based on polling numbers (which, even if inaccurate, are more accurate than gut assessments of the political inclinations of hundreds of millions of strangers). You can argue that that's splitting hairs at this point, but I would say not so until after the July convention, and also for some of us our expectations of a Trump presidency are not significantly less disastrous than our expectations for president Hillary, especially when you factor in Trump being a 2-term commitment, so you still have to argue why you think we're wrong here. And 2.) expecting us to believe obvious non-truths about matters relating to Trump (the judge's bias, Trump's secret genius, the fact that policy positions stated in Republican primaries are reliable but editorial statements opposing the same position during the last term of the Obama admin are not, that his stated charitable causes aren't obvious bullshit, that Michelle Fields story was a fabrication until video forced the downgrade to No Big Deal, that there's millions of blue collar white voters chomping at the bit to vote Trump who are usually missing in general elections, that his businesses (I can't comment so much on his real estate stuff, out of ignorance, other than knowing his sleazy reputation, deserved or not, but stuff like Trump U and Trump vitamins are obviously long establishment exploitative business models that exist throughout the country because it takes a lot of legal resources to prove that what they do is deceptive, or valueless, or illegal) aren't just scams or dumb bullshit that even Hollywood celebrities usually know to do with their money when they're past their earning peak, etc., etc., etc. This sort of Trump advocacy just makes us more concerned about him and the movement behind him. Now, you (Anti Antifa) made a legitimate, good faith argument, so I'm not accusing you of this stuff, but you should understand why such things horrify us Trump skeptics. Seeing this behavior on the right on such a broad scale is positively surreal to many of us, and if you think it's no big deal you should argue why (which Ace has done a bit, but not nearly so much as he's done angry ranting at people on Twitter who I don't follow enough to get why they're annoying him).
Posted by: reform highlander at June 29, 2016 06:00 PM (jCH/T)
346
Trump is winning. Trust me.
Posted by: MaxMBJ at June 29, 2016 06:24 PM (eXTZt)
347
No thanks to many of the "conservatives."
Posted by: Bonnie Blue at June 29, 2016 06:30 PM (ZXK8H)
348
336 Why don't all the whiny little shits who crap their pants with the release of a new poll (many of which are designed to manipulate you, by the way) go sit in a corner and drink their fucking yoo-hoo?
It sure would be nice to have a little courage, no? Wow, 2016 has revealed how weak Conservatives are. Embarrassing.
Don't worry, though, the grownups will take back this country. Whether some of you want it or not.
Posted by: Zodiac Killer at June 29, 2016 02:57 PM (kwHPo)
==================================
Or some people paid attention to how some fools said don't believe the polls in 2012 and those polls ended up being dead-on.
BTW, new Fox News poll has Hillary up 6, and that number will rise as she puts the hammer down with ads over the summer as Trump is forced to campaign in what should have been solid Red states.
It sure would be nice to have a little courage, no? Wow, 2016 has revealed how weak Conservatives are. Embarrassing.
Don't worry, though, the grownups will take back this country. Whether some of you want it or not.
Posted by: Zodiac Killer at June 29, 2016 02:57 PM (kwHPo)
==================================
Or some people paid attention to how some fools said don't believe the polls in 2012 and those polls ended up being dead-on.
BTW, new Fox News poll has Hillary up 6, and that number will rise as she puts the hammer down with ads over the summer as Trump is forced to campaign in what should have been solid Red states.
Posted by: beegs at June 29, 2016 10:20 PM (cxyn3)
349
330 reform highlander: Spoken like the house bound poliaddict you are. You are completely wrong on all accounts. Try getting out and actually meeting some people.
Posted by: jacke at June 29, 2016 11:16 PM (i8Shl)
350
There is a VERY simple explanation: ANY poll that shows Clinton ahead of, or tied with, Trump is simply unfair. In fact, in order for a poll to be fair, they MUST show Trump with a 20 point lead.
Posted by: CatchThirtyThr33 at June 30, 2016 03:06 PM (EG3bg)
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