EU Schemers Have Exactly the Right Medicine for Citizens Sick of Technocratic Busybodies Ruling Their Lives: Even More Powerful Technocratic Busybodies Ruling Their Lives

Democracy is for the Big People.

The foreign ministers of France and Germany are due to reveal a blueprint to effectively do away with individual member states in what is being described as an "ultimatum".

Under the radical proposals EU countries will lose the right to have their own army, criminal law, taxation system or central bank, with all those powers being transferred to Brussels.

Controversially member states would also lose what few controls they have left over their own borders, including the procedure for admitting and relocating refugees.

The plot has sparked fury and panic in Poland - a traditional ally of Britain in the fight against federalism - after being leaked to Polish news channel TVP Info.

The public broadcaster reports that the bombshell proposal will be presented to a meeting of the Visegrad group of countries - made up of Poland, the Czech Republic, Hungary and Slovakia - by German Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier later today.

...

Britain voted to leave the European Union in an historic referendum last Thursday
Responding to the plot Polish Foreign Minister Witold Waszczykowski raged: "This is not a good solution, of course, because from the time the EU was invented a lot has changed.

“The mood in European societies is different. Europe and our voters do not want to give the Union over into the hands of technocrats.

“Therefore, I want to talk about this, whether this really is the right recipe right now in the context of a Brexit."

Only true "elites" have grandly retarded ideas like this.

Posted by: Ace at 02:05 PM




Comments

(Jump to bottom of page)

1 Why would any sane country want to cede control of its borders and justice system after the thousands of rapes and assaults? And would people in a country even have the right to vote on whether they want to do this or not?

Posted by: Bruce With a Wang! at June 28, 2016 02:09 PM (iQIUe)

2 So EU ministers = GOPe Senators and Congressmen?
They never learn!

Posted by: Log Cabin at June 28, 2016 02:09 PM (ClL0t)

3 So they believe people will be okay with losing their countries to unelected oligarchies without a shot fired, huh?

This is the sort of shit I thought we as Americans were firmly against?

Posted by: Chupacabra at June 28, 2016 02:09 PM (F26eZ)

4 Setting up the end times are we?

(Maybe first?)

Posted by: Cactus of Liberty at June 28, 2016 02:09 PM (hNICT)

5 "Controversially member states would also lose what few controls they have left over their own borders,"


-----

You know, the last time Germany did something involving other European nations' borders it turned out rather badly for everyone involved. Wonder if this time will be any better.

Posted by: joe, living dangerously at June 28, 2016 02:10 PM (KUaJL)

6 I seem to remember a few wars being fought specifically to prevent this outcome but they expect people to just roll over and take it now?

God how I hate these people.

Posted by: JackStraw at June 28, 2016 02:10 PM (/tuJf)

7 Isn't that always the case with progressives?

What we're doing isn't working! We must not be doing it hard enough!

Posted by: Not the Andrew you're looking for at June 28, 2016 02:10 PM (eOP4e)

8 This is what kills me about the left: all their fictions and predictions of a fascist state, well, the left are the real fascists.

Posted by: Bruce With a Wang! at June 28, 2016 02:10 PM (iQIUe)

9 This seems like it would speed other countries leaving the EU.

Posted by: BeckoningChasm at June 28, 2016 02:10 PM (AroJD)

10 I think this was the plan all along. The Muslims they were going to use to dilute any problems from the natives. Brexit caused such a panic that they're going ahead with the plan early in the hopes of forcing it through before more states try to leave.

These people are traitors and should be executed.

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at June 28, 2016 02:11 PM (4ErVI)

11 Will this Reich last 1000 years?

Posted by: Roy at June 28, 2016 02:11 PM (VndSC)

12 "The plot has sparked fury and panic in Poland - a traditional ally of Britain in the fight against federalism - after being leaked to Polish news channel TVP Info."

----

They used the wrong definition of federalism here, didn't they?

I've always understood the idea of federalism to be that powers should be split among different levels of government because problems are most efficiently solved at the most local level possible. Which is basically the opposite of "give the highest level of government all the power."

Posted by: joe, living dangerously at June 28, 2016 02:12 PM (KUaJL)

13 I'm marking Europe off the list as a safe space to run and hide..... I mean take a long camping trip if Hillary is elected.

Posted by: Cactus of Liberty at June 28, 2016 02:12 PM (hNICT)

14 I've been for Brexit before there was Brexit. Never could understand a country giving up their sovereignty. That said, damnit it's making me poorer by the day.

Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck at June 28, 2016 02:12 PM (nFitA)

15 Recall the words of Rob Reiner in the anti-smoking episode of South Park ("Butt Out") when confronted by the boys about being a busybody:


"it's just that we know what's better for people than they do."

Posted by: Benji Carver at June 28, 2016 02:12 PM (OD2ni)

16 7 Isn't that always the case with progressives?

What we're doing isn't working! We must not be doing it hard enough!
Posted by: Not the Andrew you're looking for at June 28, 2016 02:10 PM (eOP4e)


No. It's not that they're not doing it hard enough. It's because you h8rs are standing in their way obstructing everything. It's your fault. Not theirs.

Posted by: joe, living dangerously at June 28, 2016 02:13 PM (KUaJL)

17 The UK got out just in time.

Posted by: Revenant at June 28, 2016 02:13 PM (y64uP)

18 John Kerry is jetting out today to campaign to run as their Chancellor.

Posted by: Roy at June 28, 2016 02:13 PM (VndSC)

19 Under the radical proposals EU countries will lose the right to have their own army, criminal law, taxation system or central bank, with all those powers being transferred to Brussels.


That's a sensationalist slug line that's not supported by any quotes in the article.

I'm calling click-bait.

Posted by: Bandersnatch at June 28, 2016 02:14 PM (1xUj/)

20
Somebody mentioned that the S02E02 episode of the Jim Gaffigan Show called The Trial is hilarious. It is.

Posted by: Bruce With a Wang! at June 28, 2016 02:14 PM (iQIUe)

21 Like, dude, it's far out that both "Technocratic Busybodies Ruling Their Lives" line up under/over each other by, like, accident. Freaky.

Posted by: a. stoner at June 28, 2016 02:14 PM (A/+my)

22 Hide your Archdukes. All it takes right now is one spark, and boom! The whole thing goes.

Posted by: BurtTC at June 28, 2016 02:14 PM (TOk1P)

23 If control of Europe is centralized, it will make it easier to establish a worldwide Caliphate when Europe goes Muslim.

Is that the plan? It's like watching Dr. Strangelove with Muslims rather than nukes.

Posted by: Yuimetal at June 28, 2016 02:15 PM (74myz)

24 Europe was lost, long ago.

All that is left, for now, are the artifacts and nostalgia.

Posted by: garrett at June 28, 2016 02:15 PM (9JISm)

25 I always thought that World War III was going to start in the Middle East, and not Brussels.

Posted by: Roy at June 28, 2016 02:15 PM (VndSC)

26
Dr Brian May is tweeting that he too will have to leave the country. LOL But those aholes never do...

Posted by: Bruce With a Wang! at June 28, 2016 02:15 PM (iQIUe)

27 I am skeptical of this story. I want to believe the self-proclaimed transnational elite buffoons want this, so it's definitely too good to be true. The "GIANT SUPERSTATE" in all caps in the linked article gives me a good pause as well.

Posted by: SB at June 28, 2016 02:16 PM (/cTY8)

28 You little people just don't recognize the implications of what you're doing. There could be an epidemic of bent bananas, and nobody wants that.

Posted by: pep at June 28, 2016 02:16 PM (3e8zv)

29 The Steve Kerr thread is......out??

Posted by: eleven at June 28, 2016 02:16 PM (Z+McQ)

30 26
Dr Brian May is tweeting that he too will have to leave the country. LOL But those aholes never do...
Posted by: Bruce With a Wang!
------

Another one bites the dust.

Posted by: Roy at June 28, 2016 02:16 PM (VndSC)

31 So Germany and friends are speeding up their marriage announcement to Russia and Asia.

Nigh it's Near.

Posted by: Cactus of Liberty at June 28, 2016 02:16 PM (hNICT)

32 I am big. It's the EU that got small.

All right, Imam DeMille, I'm ready for my close-up.

Posted by: Norma Merkel at June 28, 2016 02:16 PM (A/+my)

33 If only the EU had someone like our Lightbringer to pontificate and be perfectly clear.

OTOH, a slogan is available for recycling:

Brussels can fix it!

Posted by: Duncanthrax at June 28, 2016 02:16 PM (xx+WQ)

34 Elderberries, reeks of them, it does.

Posted by: eman at June 28, 2016 02:17 PM (Py52h)

35 It's so weird how this news came out the week after the Brexit vote.

I mean...that's just a coincidence, right?

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at June 28, 2016 02:17 PM (8o3AL)

36 They've delivered an old tomato?

I thought that was against EU regulations.

Who would want an old tomato?

Posted by: Furious George at June 28, 2016 02:17 PM (57K5j)

37 Hide your Archdukes. All it takes right now is one spark, and boom! The whole thing goes.




Srsly?
-Flint & Steel

Posted by: rickb223 TEXIT at June 28, 2016 02:17 PM (kWQPe)

38 Only true "elites" have grandly retarded ideas like this.


"There are only 3 genders:

1. Male
2. Female
3. Retarded."

- Milo Yiannopolis

Posted by: WhatWhatWhat? at June 28, 2016 02:17 PM (s/EUv)

39 Is this just some weird assed trial balloon?

Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at June 28, 2016 02:17 PM (IqV8l)

40 >>I've been for Brexit before there was Brexit. Never could understand a country giving up their sovereignty. That said, damnit it's making me poorer by the day.


Double down.

Posted by: garrett at June 28, 2016 02:17 PM (9JISm)

41 The stampede for the exits begins in 5, 4, 3, ...

Posted by: *Mikey NTH - Tent Sale at the Outrage Outlet! Sizzling Summer Savings on Slurs, Slams, and Slanders at June 28, 2016 02:17 PM (hLRSq)

42 Studateland hardest hit.

Posted by: Cu'Chuillain at June 28, 2016 02:18 PM (8mYHH)

43 I said over on the Splitters that we may look back at the Brexit in the same vein as the Assassination of Archduke Ferdinand or the Defenestration of Prague: as the moment when a general European war became unavoidable.

Posted by: Colorado Alex at June 28, 2016 02:18 PM (LUG6K)

44 May their Ultimatum be a Fiat...

Posted by: Anna Puma at June 28, 2016 02:18 PM (C6duO)

45 14 I've been for Brexit before there was Brexit. Never could understand a country giving up their sovereignty. That said, damnit it's making me poorer by the day.
Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck at June 28, 2016 02:12 PM (nFitA)

================

Looks like that stopped today.

2 day fall. It was truly the apocalypse.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at June 28, 2016 02:18 PM (8o3AL)

46 Hey, it's unelected bureaucracy, maybe they'll take Barky off our hands?!

Posted by: Chupacabra at June 28, 2016 02:18 PM (F26eZ)

47
Who would want an old tomato?
Posted by: Furious George


They're just a spudboy looking for a real tomato.

Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at June 28, 2016 02:18 PM (IqV8l)

48 17 The UK got out just in time.
Posted by: Revenant at June 28, 2016 02:13 PM (y64uP

They aren't out until they are out.

And they ain't out. Not yet Anyways.

Posted by: Cactus of Liberty at June 28, 2016 02:18 PM (hNICT)

49 If they followed history they could have seen how it needs to be done slowly. Like it happened here when the states ceded their powers to the fed.

Posted by: Buzzsaw at June 28, 2016 02:19 PM (tf9Ne)

50 Toss in some secret treaties for the win.

Posted by: eman at June 28, 2016 02:19 PM (Py52h)

51 >>They aren't out until they are out.


2 Years.

Posted by: garrett at June 28, 2016 02:19 PM (9JISm)

52 A country that doesn't control its borders isn't a country in any real sense.

But the whole Euro slap-fight is none of my business, though.

Posted by: Chupacabra at June 28, 2016 02:19 PM (F26eZ)

53 Posted by: garrett at June 28, 2016 02:17 PM (9JISm)

Yeah but I'm holding a 10 and a 2 right now. I'll wait for the next shuffle.

Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck at June 28, 2016 02:19 PM (nFitA)

54 Why do elderberries get such a bad rap? I blame Monty Python.

The berries make great jelly and the flowers (referred to as Elderberry "blow" heh heh) make great wine.

#ElderberryLivesMatter

Posted by: WhatWhatWhat? at June 28, 2016 02:20 PM (s/EUv)

55 43 I said over on the Splitters that we may look back at the Brexit in the same vein as the Assassination of Archduke Ferdinand or the Defenestration of Prague: as the moment when a general European war became unavoidable.
Posted by: Colorado Alex at June 28, 2016 02:18 PM (LUG6K)

===================

If it happened, I have to imagine it'd be one of the most pathetically small wars ever fought.

What kind of armies do these nations have anymore anyway?

With NATO providing protection against Russia for 60+ years (and the US footing most of that bill), what does Germany have that they could use to keep Poland in the EU? The EU doesn't have an army on its own, does it?

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at June 28, 2016 02:20 PM (8o3AL)

56 Let them eat Dinovite.

Posted by: King Vitamin at June 28, 2016 02:20 PM (IqV8l)

57 51

2 Years.
Posted by: garrett at June 28, 2016 02:19 PM (9JISm)

================

After they invoke Article 50. They haven't invoked Article 50 yet.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at June 28, 2016 02:20 PM (8o3AL)

58 Time to storm the castle with torches and pitchforks.

Posted by: European Peasant at June 28, 2016 02:20 PM (XVTvT)

59 In Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy "Belgium" was considered on of the foulest, most profane words.

Now I am beginning to see why.

Posted by: *Mikey NTH - Tent Sale at the Outrage Outlet! Sizzling Summer Savings on Slurs, Slams, and Slanders at June 28, 2016 02:21 PM (hLRSq)

60 "I am skeptical of this story."

So am I, and said so in a post here yesterday: "There's an article in the British press that Merkel will use the current crisis to push for even deeper political union among EU member states. I'd say no one could be that stupid, but look at Merkel's lack of judgment over the last year."

A later poster made the great point that the Germans have had nationalism guilted out of them, and believe that all nationalism is bad, but believe that only Germans are capable of running things like the EU.

Deutschland uber alles, indeed.


Posted by: Ignoramus at June 28, 2016 02:21 PM (r1fLd)

61 Bruce, they want a fascist state; they just want to be the ones in charge.

Posted by: Barb the Evil Genius at June 28, 2016 02:21 PM (FQKBL)

62 >>I am skeptical of this story. I want to believe the self-proclaimed transnational elite buffoons want this, so it's definitely too good to be true.

Why would you be skeptical? In 2006ish they wrote an EU Constitution, a plan to join all EU states in one large super state (no caps necessary). It was France and the Netherlands who but the kibosh on it through significant public pushback.

This has always been the end game.

Posted by: JackStraw at June 28, 2016 02:21 PM (/tuJf)

63 If it happened, I have to imagine it'd be one of the most pathetically small wars ever fought.



What kind of armies do these nations have anymore anyway?



With NATO providing protection against Russia for 60+ years (and the
US footing most of that bill), what does Germany have that they could
use to keep Poland in the EU? The EU doesn't have an army on its own,
does it?

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at June 28, 2016 02:20 PM (8o3AL)


They may have small armies at the moment, but it doesn't take much to make a large army. You just need bodies and some time.

Posted by: Colorado Alex at June 28, 2016 02:21 PM (LUG6K)

64 58 Time to storm the castle with torches and pitchforks.
Posted by: European Peasant
-------

Let me finish my cake first.

Posted by: European Peasant 2 at June 28, 2016 02:21 PM (VndSC)

65 I used to think that WW3 would be countries against countries. I'm starting to think it will be governing class against the unwashed rabble

Posted by: Drill Thrawl at June 28, 2016 02:21 PM (oR3Xa)

66 The more you tighten your grip, the more European nations will slip through your fingers .

Posted by: Polish Princess Leia at June 28, 2016 02:21 PM (h1pWJ)

67 >>Yeah but I'm holding a 10 and a 2 right now.


Well, if you weren't ready to bail on your investments pre-brexit, it only makes sense to increase your affected holdings.

Nothing has changed but the calmness of the tits.

Posted by: garrett at June 28, 2016 02:21 PM (9JISm)

68 Never go full retard.


Or was it "Always go full retard"?

Hard to keep those two straight.

Posted by: eleven at June 28, 2016 02:22 PM (Z+McQ)

69 Conquering countries is a lot easier to do if they willfully submit. In olden days you had to use arms. To day, you just have to bribe the old people with nice pensions. Who cares about the young. They aren't reproducing anyway.

Posted by: SH at June 28, 2016 02:22 PM (gmeXX)

70 That they would seriously unfold this right after the Brexit Vote is truly mind boggling. And vindication for all in the UK who voted to get the fuck out while the getting was good.

And THIS is where the left wants to push us.

Posted by: Nevergiveup at June 28, 2016 02:22 PM (zp+j1)

71 Well, that sure is going to make it easier to transition to a caliphate.

Good on ya Europe!

Posted by: RWC - Team BOHICA at June 28, 2016 02:22 PM (/CXhS)

72 Europe may be too far gone but America is not that far behind.

Voting is not going to get us out of our predicament.

War is coming.

Posted by: Kreplach at June 28, 2016 02:22 PM (ift1n)

73 65 I used to think that WW3 would be countries against countries. I'm starting to think it will be governing class against the unwashed rabble
Posted by: Drill Thrawl

Posted by: Carzy Islamist Jihadis at June 28, 2016 02:22 PM (VndSC)

74 Never go full retard.

Or was it "Always go full retard"?

Hard to keep those two straight.

Posted by: eleven


Congratulations! You might be an elite!

Posted by: Brother Cavil at June 28, 2016 02:22 PM (9krrF)

75 "Setting up the end burning times are we?"

Not that I'm not ready for the end times, but I think we can all agree on my version, no matter what your preferred flavor of theology happens to be.

Posted by: Qoheleth DIXIT at June 28, 2016 02:22 PM (iIzG7)

76
Huh. Lily Allen, who is dumb as a rock, is claiming that people are afraid that Jeremy Corbyn will win the general election and become PM. LOLOLOLOLOLOL!

Posted by: Bruce With a Wang! at June 28, 2016 02:23 PM (iQIUe)

77 by: TheJamesMadison at June 28, 2016 02:18 PM (8o3AL)

Unfortunately I hold a big stake in Walgreens who not long ago merged with Boot Alliance, the huge European drug and beauty supply retail company. They will take a hit for a little longer. May be good time to buy more as garrett suggested.

Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck at June 28, 2016 02:23 PM (nFitA)

78 63 They may have small armies at the moment, but it doesn't take much to make a large army. You just need bodies and some time.

Posted by: Colorado Alex at June 28, 2016 02:21 PM (LUG6K)

===============

You also need money to do it with. The individual nations have no money in that magnitude. All of their money is tied up in social spending. Plus, they'd have to ramp up their armies with millenials.

Do you think German millenials will want to join an army to keep Poland in the EU? They'll bitch and moan about it all day on Twitter, but putting on a uniform to keep a political union together that they don't really appreciate?

I don't f'n think so.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at June 28, 2016 02:23 PM (8o3AL)

79 *blinks at side-bar*

The feckless dickless theta slime-molds of State wanted US Marines to wear civilian clothes to rescue those at Benghazi? To avoid inflaming feelings apparently.

"To the shore of Tripoli, except in uniform and with no nasty evil guns blazing!"

I guess that is what State thinks the Marine Corps hymn is about.

*bangs head into keyboard*

Posted by: Anna Puma at June 28, 2016 02:23 PM (C6duO)

80 May their Ultimatum be a Fiat...



It'll never run.....

Posted by: rickb223 TEXIT at June 28, 2016 02:23 PM (kWQPe)

81
Yeah but I'm holding a 10 and a 2 right now. I'll wait for the next shuffle.
Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck


Going for a Dr. Pepper

Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at June 28, 2016 02:23 PM (IqV8l)

82 This time the Superstate will give Europeans the one thing they didn't get the last time around: Lebensraum.

Posted by: Fritz at June 28, 2016 02:24 PM (2Mnv1)

83
Under the radical proposals EU countries will lose the right to have their own army, criminal law, taxation system or central bank, with all those powers being transferred to Brussels.



And under effective control of Germany,how convenient.

Posted by: Flawless Male Logic at June 28, 2016 02:25 PM (lKyWE)

84 "I am skeptical of this story. I want to believe the self-proclaimed transnational elite buffoons want this, so it's definitely too good to be true."

Why are you trying to stop a good display of outrage against the Frogs and Krauts? The machinations of the Great Powers of Europe? Deep disdain and suspicion of the powers on the continent is what Britain needs right now to push the Brexit to its ultimate conclusion.

Posted by: *Mikey NTH - Tent Sale at the Outrage Outlet! Sizzling Summer Savings on Slurs, Slams, and Slanders at June 28, 2016 02:25 PM (hLRSq)

85 70 That they would seriously unfold this right after the Brexit Vote is truly mind boggling. And vindication for all in the UK who voted to get the fuck out while the getting was good.

And THIS is where the left wants to push us.
Posted by: Nevergiveup at June 28, 2016 02:22 PM (zp+j1)

==============

I remember reading something a few weeks (months?) ago that the EU was hiding some major changes until after the vote.

Not 100% sure that this was it (or again, as other people have said, if this is real), but it certainly does fit the MO of a group trying to hide unpleasant realities from the unwashed masses in order to influence them into voting the right way.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at June 28, 2016 02:25 PM (8o3AL)

86 When they have a new EU army, my bet is that the Greeks stay in the rear.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at June 28, 2016 02:25 PM (8ZskC)

87 Brennt London??!!!

Posted by: Frau Merkel screaming into a telephone at June 28, 2016 02:25 PM (A/+my)

88 They may have small armies at the moment, but it doesn't take much to make a large army. You just need bodies and some time.

A deal with the "migrants". It's the classic (bad) move.

Seriously wondering whether allowing Germany to continue to exist as an independent nation after 1945 was that good an idea.

Posted by: Brother Cavil at June 28, 2016 02:25 PM (9krrF)

89 You just need bodies and some time

----------

No European country has the bodies to wage a war.

Posted by: SH at June 28, 2016 02:26 PM (gmeXX)

90 Liebesraum for Everybody!!

Posted by: Mr. Peebles at June 28, 2016 02:26 PM (OkKDg)

91 I used to think that WW3 would be countries against countries. I'm starting to think it will be governing class against the unwashed rabble
Posted by: Drill Thrawl



Saw that movie. It was produced by Dr. Guillotin.
Gov class lost their heads.

Posted by: rickb223 TEXIT at June 28, 2016 02:26 PM (kWQPe)

92 What kind of armies do these nations have anymore anyway?

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at June 28, 2016 02:20 PM (8o3AL)


Most of them have nukular warheads with those things that go up.

Posted by: BurtTC at June 28, 2016 02:26 PM (TOk1P)

93 All that's missing from this plan is 40 million starving Russians.

Posted by: A. Hitler at June 28, 2016 02:26 PM (8ZskC)

94 >>No European country has the bodies to wage a war.

They are getting new residents every day.

Posted by: JackStraw at June 28, 2016 02:26 PM (/tuJf)

95 No European country has the bodies to wage a war.
Posted by: SH
-----------

No so sure. If you say Holy War / Jihad, you may get a crapload of them.

Posted by: Roy at June 28, 2016 02:26 PM (VndSC)

96 The foreign ministers of France and Germany are due to reveal a
blueprint to effectively do away with individual member states in what
is being described as an "ultimatum".


Under the radical proposals EU countries will lose the right to have
their own army, criminal law, taxation system or central bank, with all
those powers being transferred to Brussels.


Controversially member states would also lose what few controls they
have left over their own borders, including the procedure for admitting
and relocating refugees.

===============================================




For the love of pete, why does each day's news sound like it's coming straight out of the Book of Revelation.





Posted by: grammie winger, 2 Chronicles 7:14 at June 28, 2016 02:26 PM (dFi94)

97 Oh good god. Trump is going full-blown protectionist to eleventy.

Somebody looked up some founding era quotes for him.

Gah! Just when I try to reconcile myself to Not-Hillary he goes full bore against everything I believe in.

Posted by: Bandersnatch at June 28, 2016 02:26 PM (1xUj/)

98 European civil war, please, and pass the popcorn.

Posted by: General Zod at June 28, 2016 02:26 PM (Bdeb0)

99 88 Seriously wondering whether allowing Germany to continue to exist as an independent nation after 1945 was that good an idea.
Posted by: Brother Cavil at June 28, 2016 02:25 PM (9krrF)

=================

Once you figure it, please go and tell Mr. Truman.

He should really know.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at June 28, 2016 02:27 PM (8o3AL)

100 "This time the Superstate will give Europeans the one thing they didn't get the last time around: Lebensraum."

Looking at the shifting ratio of rapefugees and citizens and just how many rapefugees are kicking down the front door of Europe, there's not going to be a lot of raum for leben in -- if you can call that leben.

Posted by: Qoheleth DIXIT at June 28, 2016 02:27 PM (iIzG7)

101 Do you think German millenials will want to join an army to keep Poland in the EU? They'll bitch and moan about it all day on Twitter, but putting on a uniform to keep a political union together that they don't really appreciate?

At least one internet commentator will laud such a move as "fresh, original thinking".

You know it. I know it.

Posted by: Brother Cavil at June 28, 2016 02:27 PM (9krrF)

102 Even if the Euro's get in a shooting war, the Muzzies will just come in from behind and mop up the rest.

It's crazy to think that's not true.

Posted by: Chupacabra at June 28, 2016 02:27 PM (F26eZ)

103 Yeah, that'll end well.

Posted by: Insomniac at June 28, 2016 02:27 PM (0mRoj)

104
Trump was right.We need to rethink NATO

Posted by: Flawless Male Logic at June 28, 2016 02:27 PM (lKyWE)

105 And under effective control of Germany,how convenient.

---------

Germany has had designs of controlling Europe going back to the Holy Roman Empire. They found that waging battle against was not the best way to get there. The EU was a clever alternative.

Posted by: SH at June 28, 2016 02:28 PM (gmeXX)

106 The EU just might turn out to be a bigger threat to Freedom than Russia or the Chicoms

Posted by: Nevergiveup at June 28, 2016 02:28 PM (zp+j1)

107 it'd be nice if you could copy and paste text here, without getting fatal errors.

Posted by: redc1c4 at June 28, 2016 02:28 PM (7XWyA)

108 I'm starting to think it will be governing class against the unwashed rabble.
Been there. Done that.

Posted by: 1848 at June 28, 2016 02:28 PM (A/+my)

109 You also need money to do it with. The individual
nations have no money in that magnitude. All of their money is tied up
in social spending. Plus, they'd have to ramp up their armies with
millenials.



Do you think German millenials will want to join an army to keep
Poland in the EU? They'll bitch and moan about it all day on Twitter,
but putting on a uniform to keep a political union together that they
don't really appreciate?



I don't f'n think so.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at June 28, 2016 02:23 PM (8o3AL)


All that social spending goes to millennials living three to a one-bedroom apartment. They'll just cancel it and tell the young men, "You're in the Army now!" And considering the way millennials are easily manipulated by the media, a lot of them will quickly discover their patriotism for the Great Fatherland.

Posted by: Colorado Alex at June 28, 2016 02:28 PM (LUG6K)

110 94 >>No European country has the bodies to wage a war.

They are getting new residents every day.
Posted by: JackStraw at June 28, 2016 02:26 PM (/tuJf)

===================

Residents that hate the countries they're entering. Like those migrants who were shouting "Fck the UK" as they entered....the UK.

Good luck getting them to fight in your pan-european army.

I'd put more money on Putin owning Europe in 10 years than the EU putting together enough forces to scare Luxembourg.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at June 28, 2016 02:28 PM (8o3AL)

111 No European country has the bodies to wage a war.
Posted by: SH
-----------

No so sure. If you say Holy War / Jihad, you may get a crapload of them.

---------

They will then find out that they are on a different side.

Posted by: SH at June 28, 2016 02:28 PM (gmeXX)

112 What kind of armies do these nations have anymore anyway?

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at June 28, 2016 02:20 PM (8o3AL)


Most of them have nukular warheads with those things that go up.




Then you don't need armies and bodies. Just a couple of button pushers.

Posted by: rickb223 TEXIT at June 28, 2016 02:29 PM (kWQPe)

113
Trump's speaking in Monassen, PA right now on trade btw.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ru3Cpf_Wkco

Posted by: iforgot at June 28, 2016 02:29 PM (pC96u)

114 I used to think that WW3 would be countries against countries. I'm starting to think it will be governing class against the unwashed rabble

Posted by: Drill Thrawl at June 28, 2016 02:21 PM (oR3Xa)



Markets against markets could be just as devastating... and something that could happen right now, without anybody having to leave the comfort of their respective capitols.

Posted by: BurtTC at June 28, 2016 02:29 PM (TOk1P)

115 "Trump was right.We need to rethink NATO"

Better yet, maybe we need to step aside and let Europe rethink NATO on its own.

Just a suggestion.

Posted by: Qoheleth DIXIT at June 28, 2016 02:29 PM (iIzG7)

116 I'd put more money on Putin owning Europe in 10 years than the EU putting together enough forces to scare Luxembourg.

Sadly, that would likely constitute an improvement.

Posted by: Brother Cavil at June 28, 2016 02:29 PM (9krrF)

117 >>Gah! Just when I try to reconcile myself to Not-Hillary he goes full bore against everything I believe in.


Trump doesn't believe in anything (he says) ...

So, you've got that going for you.

Posted by: garrett at June 28, 2016 02:30 PM (9JISm)

118 >>>89 You just need bodies and some time

----------

No European country has the bodies to wage a war.
Posted by: SH at June 28, 2016 02:26 PM (gmeXX)

_____________________________

Specifically you first need young healthy men of fighting age who are willing to fight, kill and die for their country. Europe doesn't have enough natives that fit the description

They're fooked. The only question is whether they will be ruled by Russia or a new euro-caliphate and when it will happen.

Posted by: TeamRawDog at June 28, 2016 02:30 PM (10hEu)

119 101 At least one internet commentator will laud such a move as "fresh, original thinking".

You know it. I know it.
Posted by: Brother Cavil at June 28, 2016 02:27 PM (9krrF)

=================

"I've never heard of it, which means that no one has!"
-IdiotsMillenials

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at June 28, 2016 02:30 PM (8o3AL)

120 The EU is like a shark thrashing about on the floorboards of a boat. It's in the process of dying, but can still do harm in its dying convulsions.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at June 28, 2016 02:30 PM (GSdpU)

121


Fuck these guys.

Posted by: ThunderB at June 28, 2016 02:30 PM (dbBTG)

122 it'd be nice if you could copy and paste text here, without getting fatal errors.

You can. You just need some manual editing. Take out smart quotes and long dashes, replace them with simple equivalents.

Posted by: Bandersnatch at June 28, 2016 02:31 PM (1xUj/)

123 Its not hypocrisy when the elites and powerful live by different rules than everyone else. When Mark Zuckerberg builds a 6' wall around his giant Hawaiian compound, then tells everyone building a wall to stop illegal immigration is wrong, he's not being hypocritical.

These people are simply better than us, they are on a whole different plane of existence. Just ask them.

This isn't new. Its terribly old. Its the European way of doing things which has never changed. They rejected kings and nobles but replaced them with a different set of elites they tug the forelock to. Authoritarianism is in their blood. Their economic system and culture has always been this way. They never even gave capitalism a chance, they went from an economic system where the state controlled everything through kings to one where it does so through politicians.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at June 28, 2016 02:31 PM (39g3+)

124 Oh good god. Trump is going full-blown protectionist to eleventy.



Somebody looked up some founding era quotes for him.



Gah! Just when I try to reconcile myself to Not-Hillary he goes full bore against everything I believe in.

Posted by: Bandersnatch at June 28, 2016 02:26 PM (1xUj/)


The damage from protectionism will be limited, and can be undone. It's easier to end tariffs than it is to undo the importation of tens of millions of third-world immigrants.

Posted by: Colorado Alex at June 28, 2016 02:31 PM (LUG6K)

125 Who would want an old tomato?
Posted by: Furious George

One needs them to throw at our betters.

Posted by: josephistan at June 28, 2016 02:31 PM (7HtZB)

126 Oh my. Trump will have the (tariff) free trade weenies in a tizzy now.

Posted by: RioBravo at June 28, 2016 02:31 PM (NUqwG)

127 The Sistine Chapel will make a helluva mosque.

Posted by: Mr. Peebles at June 28, 2016 02:31 PM (OkKDg)

128 "The EU is like a shark thrashing about on the floorboards of a boat.
It's in the process of dying, but can still do harm in its dying
convulsions."


Europe is gonna need a bigger boat.

Posted by: Qoheleth DIXIT at June 28, 2016 02:31 PM (iIzG7)

129 Build up that wall! (points at West German border)

We don't even know those bozos over there.

Don't blame us for this clusterfuck.

Oh, and Merkel? Keep her, please.

Posted by: The East Germans at June 28, 2016 02:31 PM (gyKtp)

130 I'm laughing. Not 100% out of joy.

When the Maastricht treaty was being negotiated, I had one very full of himself classmate in college who was arrogantly saying the EU was going to be a superpower...that it was going to ride astride the Earth like a mighty economic colossus, bring a new dawn, and all of that.

I often wonder what happened to that guy. I have a feeling he's in the current Administration in some capacity.

Anyway, yeah there are hundreds of years of rivalries, competing cultures and experiences, and all of that which simply won't be written away by this scheme. It's hard enough to get something like that working with the US, that largely shares a common heritage and history. Applying it to nations that have been alternately at war and at peace with each other for hundreds of years is lunacy.

Posted by: VA GOP Sucks at June 28, 2016 02:31 PM (PFy0L)

131 There will come a time when eastern European countries will be glad they weren't admitted

Posted by: ThunderB at June 28, 2016 02:31 PM (dbBTG)

132 The EU is simply the real-world implementation of John Lennon's "Image" lyrics:

Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for

----

Seriously, this is exactly the leftist utopian fantasy. It's not like they even try to hide it.

it's not a conspiracy theory: the Left overtly craves "one-world government."

And considering the breathtaking comments from the Left after the Brexit vote, they also aren't too keen on "democracy" either, and want that one-world government to be rule by unelected bureaucrats.

Posted by: zombie at June 28, 2016 02:32 PM (jBuUi)

133 MORE COWBELL!!!!

Posted by: Lizzy at June 28, 2016 02:32 PM (NOIQH)

134 "of their money is tied up in social spending."

A large military is social spending in another way. Instead of getting a check to sit and play "Call of Duty" on your X-Box you get to actually play Call of Duty in meatspace.

Posted by: *Mikey NTH - Tent Sale at the Outrage Outlet! Sizzling Summer Savings on Slurs, Slams, and Slanders at June 28, 2016 02:32 PM (hLRSq)

135 Mutual defense treaties with countries that have effectively no military are just a bad idea nowadays. Definitely think NATO needs to be rethunk, then maybe Europe can get hit with a nice dose of reality with their social spending.

My thinking is definitely evolving on trade and projection of military power. Maybe it's just the times, I dunno.

Posted by: Chupacabra at June 28, 2016 02:32 PM (F26eZ)

136 Lennon's "Image" lyrics = Lennon's "Imagine" lyrics

Posted by: zombie at June 28, 2016 02:32 PM (jBuUi)

137 I'd put more money on Putin owning Europe in 10 years than the EU putting together enough forces to scare Luxembourg.

They'll spend eighty billion dollars on a pistol that they will adopt and sell a hundred of them to bodyguards.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at June 28, 2016 02:33 PM (39g3+)

138 >>>109
All that social spending goes to millennials living three to a one-bedroom apartment. They'll just cancel it and tell the young men, "You're in the Army now!" And considering the way millennials are easily manipulated by the media, a lot of them will quickly discover their patriotism for the Great Fatherland.
Posted by: Colorado Alex at June 28, 2016 02:28 PM (LUG6K)

_______________________

No.

They aren't even willing to resort to violence when their sisters, wives, daughters, and girlfriends are being literally raped in the streets.

And you think they will use violence to keep Poland in the EU?

BWAHAHAHAHAHA

Posted by: TeamRawDog at June 28, 2016 02:33 PM (10hEu)

139 131 There will come a time when eastern European countries will be glad they weren't admitted
Posted by: ThunderB at June 28, 2016 02:31 PM (dbBTG)

==============

That time has come and gone.

The treatment of Greece probably convinced them of that.

I personally have no sympathy for Greece in that, though. They spent unwisely for many years at very high levels. They were asking to be dealt with harshly.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at June 28, 2016 02:33 PM (8o3AL)

140 The EUnazis don't have a large enough military age cohort with which to enact this.

They are either going to have to contract it out to Russia or start training the 100,000s of 3worlders that have just arrived.

Neither scenario is fun to contemplate.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at June 28, 2016 02:33 PM (p2X2f)

141 Anyway, yeah there are hundreds of years of rivalries, competing cultures and experiences, and all of that which simply won't be written away by this scheme. It's hard enough to get something like that working with the US, that largely shares a common heritage and history. Applying it to nations that have been alternately at war and at peace with each other for hundreds of years is lunacy.

------------

The wildcard in all this is they are all dying out on their own. Which country has the highest native birth rate? I believe it is France - but maybe someone knows. Not that you ever want to bet on France, but I would actually bet on France in such a situation.

Posted by: SH at June 28, 2016 02:33 PM (gmeXX)

142 On the bright side, the next pan-European war should take less than 30 years and Sweden probably won't be a major player this time.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at June 28, 2016 02:33 PM (8ZskC)

143

Bring them to heel. Sometimes the threat is part of the negotiations

Posted by: ThunderB at June 28, 2016 02:34 PM (dbBTG)

144 If Merkel is trying to push for deeper political union among EU member states, with Germany at the helm, she should know that now is not the time to do it. It'd validate Brexit, and foment Frexit, Nexit, and Polexit for openers. She'll light a match that will put European politics to flame.

But maybe she is that stupid. What did she have to gain by letting in a million Mussies last year?

Posted by: Ignoramus at June 28, 2016 02:34 PM (r1fLd)

145 what exactly does Germany get out of supporting all of Europe? Why are they playing along?

Posted by: Nevergiveup at June 28, 2016 02:34 PM (zp+j1)

146 This is going to end badly. That's quite a gamble.

Nice country you have there. Be a shame if something happened to it.

Do they actually believe this is going to work? That Germans who are already revolting due to a loss of national identity will- coalesce around the idea of an ethereal European Uber-State?

The French and Hungarians are already discussing their own "leave" votes. But you know, the timing is right for this one.

Yeah. I can feel it in the air.

Posted by: Marcus T at June 28, 2016 02:34 PM (O0lVq)

147 what exactly does Germany get out of supporting all of Europe? Why are they playing along?

------------

Control over Europe.

Posted by: SH at June 28, 2016 02:35 PM (gmeXX)

148 >>Residents that hate the countries they're entering. Like those migrants who were shouting "Fck the UK" as they entered....the UK.

Fortunately for them, the countries are being "fundamentally reformed" to accommodate them. Just like us. Heck, London now has a muslim mayor who made one of his first official acts banning advertisements using scantily clad women.

The EU has been busily destroying the borders of their member states and allowing muslims to flow throughout the continent. They believe they are bringing in their next generation of worker bees, I believe they are stupidly welcoming their conquerors. Nothing the EU bureaucrats does surprises me and just everything they do backfires.

Posted by: JackStraw at June 28, 2016 02:35 PM (/tuJf)

149 I used to think that WW3 would be countries against countries. I'm starting to think it will be governing class against the unwashed rabble

Posted by: Drill Thrawl at June 28, 2016 02:21 PM (oR3Xa)

Countries against countries, ruled vs. rulers & the muslims against everyone. Interesting times & what not.

Posted by: josephistan at June 28, 2016 02:35 PM (7HtZB)

150 147 what exactly does Germany get out of supporting all of Europe? Why are they playing along?

------------

Control over Europe.
Posted by: SH at June 28, 2016 02:35 PM (gmeXX)

Everybody goose step!

Posted by: Insomniac at June 28, 2016 02:35 PM (0mRoj)

151 138 No.

They aren't even willing to resort to violence when their sisters, wives, daughters, and girlfriends are being literally raped in the streets.

And you think they will use violence to keep Poland in the EU?

BWAHAHAHAHAHA
Posted by: TeamRawDog at June 28, 2016 02:33 PM (10hEu)

================

Bingo.

Plus, most of the social spending is on health care particularly for the older generation and pensions.

That's not going to be easy to suddenly take away. They could succeed, but at the speed of Europe, which means that Poland would have declared independence and built a 20 foot tall all steel border wall by the time the first vote came up in the EU Parliament.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at June 28, 2016 02:36 PM (8o3AL)

152 There will not be a shooting war. At worst, it will be soccer hooligans and Antifa anarchists in street brawls.

Europe is far far too poofterish for fighting anymore.

Meanwhile, the Muslim immgrants keep growing and growing and waiting for their moment to take over.

Posted by: zombie at June 28, 2016 02:36 PM (jBuUi)

153 10
These people are traitors and should be executed.
Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at June 28, 2016 02:11 PM (4ErVI)



I've said repeatedly that allowing Muslim immigration to the West is the greatest act of treason in history.

Posted by: rickl at June 28, 2016 02:36 PM (zoehZ)

154 We may have a shortage of carrots, but we have plenty of sticks.

Posted by: Your EU Overseers at June 28, 2016 02:36 PM (R+30W)

155 "of their money is tied up in social spending."

A large military is social spending in another way. Instead of getting a check to sit and play "Call of Duty" on your X-Box you get to actually play Call of Duty in meatspace.



That's fine if that's all they were funding. Add in young, old, muzzie, & suddenly, there is no money.

Posted by: rickb223 TEXIT at June 28, 2016 02:36 PM (kWQPe)

156 >>>140 The EUnazis don't have a large enough military age cohort with which to enact this.

They are either going to have to contract it out to Russia or start training the 100,000s of 3worlders that have just arrived.

Neither scenario is fun to contemplate.
Posted by: weft cut-loop at June 28, 2016 02:33 PM (p2X2f)

_______________________

Those 3rd worlders make terrible soldiers when fighting for their own country. See how quickly the Iraqi army folded time and time again. They would be even worse fighting for a foreign country.

They are only good for street level rabble rousing r@pes and terrorism. They are very good at that, but they're a two trick pony.

Posted by: TeamRawDog at June 28, 2016 02:36 PM (10hEu)

157
79 *blinks at side-bar*

The feckless dickless theta slime-molds of State wanted US Marines to wear civilian clothes to rescue those at Benghazi? To avoid inflaming feelings apparently.

"To the shore of Tripoli, except in uniform and with no nasty evil guns blazing!"

I guess that is what State thinks the Marine Corps hymn is about.

*bangs head into keyboard*


Posted by: Anna Puma at June 28, 2016 02:23 PM (C6duO)


And if the Marines had followed that order, they would have all been in defiance of the Geneva convention...

They would have been NonUniformed Combatants... and could have been shot out of hand as spies....

Posted by: Don Q. at June 28, 2016 02:36 PM (qf6WZ)

158 Germany does want to control Europe and the EU is the instrument they chose

Posted by: ThunderB at June 28, 2016 02:36 PM (dbBTG)

159 I would not be at all surprised if Poland bailed within the year. The other nations I doubt, but Poland really does not have any fondness for any European nation left in the EU.

Especially the more Germany pushes for a super nation under their control. They remember how well that turned out for Poles last time.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at June 28, 2016 02:37 PM (39g3+)

160 "what exactly does Germany get out of supporting all of Europe? Why are they playing along?"

Think of it as a cocktail, made of one part post-WWII German national guilt and two parts imported internationalism. Mix with a dash of Worcestershire, a bit of central planning, and two cocktail olives, shaken not stirred.

Posted by: Qoheleth DIXIT at June 28, 2016 02:37 PM (iIzG7)

161 >>what exactly does Germany get out of supporting all of Europe? Why are they playing along?


They are going to ride the price of Gold up to $2500 an oz. and then dump all of those fillings they have been sitting on.

Posted by: garrett at June 28, 2016 02:37 PM (9JISm)

162 144 But maybe she is that stupid. What did she have to gain by letting in a million Mussies last year?
Posted by: Ignoramus at June 28, 2016 02:34 PM (r1fLd)

====================

What makes you think she's politically astute?

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at June 28, 2016 02:37 PM (8o3AL)

163 Perhaps if we let them have the Czech Republic, Hungary and Slovakia then they will leave everyone else alone.
I mean, it sounds reasonable, doesn't it.

Posted by: IP at June 28, 2016 02:37 PM (Fol9S)

164 There is one thing I do know is that no demographic trend can ever stop. No new demographic trends can ever start. There are no possible events ever that could end one trend and start another.

And pushing people too hard or too fast has never provoked a sustained, violent reaction.

Posted by: *Mikey NTH - Tent Sale at the Outrage Outlet! Sizzling Summer Savings on Slurs, Slams, and Slanders at June 28, 2016 02:37 PM (hLRSq)

165 If only there were some historical example of a European country using foreigners to protect their countries...

Posted by: Chupacabra at June 28, 2016 02:37 PM (F26eZ)

166 The wildcard in all this is they are all dying out on their own. Which country has the highest native birth rate? I believe it is France - but maybe someone knows. Not that you ever want to bet on France, but I would actually bet on France in such a situation.

Posted by: SH at June 28, 2016 02:33 PM (gmeXX)



It's almost sublime in its execution, the biology of the thing. Whole nations that will not even procreate to perpetuate themselves... Europe is one Great Sad Panda.

Posted by: BurtTC at June 28, 2016 02:38 PM (TOk1P)

167 Article 50: THERE IS NO ARTICLE 50!

Posted by: Mr. Peebles at June 28, 2016 02:38 PM (OkKDg)

168 Sweden probably won't be a major player this time.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at June 28, 2016 02:33 PM (8ZskC)
==============================================

As if it ever was. In WW2, Sweden's basic role was to show the Nazis all the shortcuts to Norway.

Posted by: grammie winger, 2 Chronicles 7:14 at June 28, 2016 02:38 PM (dFi94)

169 >>
what exactly does Germany get out of supporting all of Europe? Why are they playing along?
Posted by: Nevergiveup at June 28, 2016 02:34 PM (zp+j1)
<<

Guilt assuagement. It's the generation of people like Merkel who have driven this "globalist", statist, mindset. They play on the guilt from thre-quarters of a century ago and play people like fiddles to destroy any semblance of democratic, sovereign states.

Posted by: Marcus T at June 28, 2016 02:38 PM (O0lVq)

170 >>Everybody goose step!


I don't know that one, but I can duck walk.

Posted by: Chuck Berry at June 28, 2016 02:38 PM (9JISm)

171 Gah! Just when I try to reconcile myself to Not-Hillary he goes full bore against everything I believe in.

Posted by: Bandersnatch at June 28, 2016 02:26 PM (1xUj/)


Well, thanks for outing yourself.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at June 28, 2016 02:38 PM (GSdpU)

172 When did technocrat become the term for socialist dictators?

I like the "Socialist Dictator" personally, says it all.

Posted by: Aetius451AD at June 28, 2016 02:38 PM (3ZoRf)

173 152
There will not be a shooting war. At worst, it will be soccer hooligans and Antifa anarchists in street brawls.



Europe is far far too poofterish for fighting anymore.



Meanwhile, the Muslim immgrants keep growing and growing and waiting for their moment to take over.

Posted by: zombie at June 28, 2016 02:36 PM (jBuUi)

Well, they have London already. The mayor is even asking for more autonomous control.<sits down, grabs popcorn and beer>

Posted by: Our Country is Screwed - PROUD LGBT - Loves Guns, Beer and Tatas at June 28, 2016 02:38 PM (jxbfJ)

174 what exactly does Germany get out of supporting all of Europe? Why are they playing along?

When everyone depends on Germany, they're under Germany's control.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at June 28, 2016 02:39 PM (39g3+)

175 "Which country has the highest native birth rate?"

It's the Republic of Ireland, by a lot. And it's not skewed by domestic Muslims. It's still down from days past. My Da was the youngest of 15. My Ma was from a small family -- just the five kids.

Germany's birth rate may be lower than Japan's, especially if you take out the Turks who came as guest workers in the 1970s.

Posted by: Ignoramus at June 28, 2016 02:39 PM (r1fLd)

176 >>>168 Sweden probably won't be a major player this time.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at June 28, 2016 02:33 PM (8ZskC)
==============================================

As if it ever was. In WW2, Sweden's basic role was to show the Nazis all the shortcuts to Norway.
Posted by: grammie winger, 2 Chronicles 7:14 at June 28, 2016 02:38 PM (dFi94)

_________________________

They haven't been a major player since the viking age.

Except for their bikini team.

Posted by: TeamRawDog at June 28, 2016 02:39 PM (10hEu)

177 163 Perhaps if we let them have the Czech Republic, Hungary and Slovakia then they will leave everyone else alone.
I mean, it sounds reasonable, doesn't it.
Posted by: IP at June 28, 2016 02:37 PM (Fol9S)

That's a good idea, Neville. Can I call you Neville?

Posted by: joe, living dangerously at June 28, 2016 02:39 PM (KUaJL)

178 It's simple, really - the Mandarin class there (and to a lesser extent here) have been fully consumed by Marx's theory of labor, to the point that no other view is even reckoned to exist.
In short, Ishmael and Abdul were going to work in support of Hans' services and retirement.

That they would NOT is still met with disbelief.

Posted by: Anon a mouse... at June 28, 2016 02:40 PM (C9pBZ)

179 They are going to ride the price of Gold up to $2500 an oz. and then dump all of those fillings they have been sitting on.

Posted by: garrett at June 28, 2016 02:37 PM (9JISm)



I was going to LMAO but then thought better of it.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at June 28, 2016 02:40 PM (8ZskC)

180 Under the radical proposals EU countries will lose the right to have
their own army, criminal law, taxation system or central bank, with all
those powers being transferred to Brussels.

Controversially member states would also lose what few controls they
have left over their own borders, including the procedure for admitting
and relocating refugees.



Ooh, they're doing the full Allende. You never do the full Allende.

Posted by: Hillary Clinton at June 28, 2016 02:40 PM (oKE6c)

181 It seems there really is a conspiracy for an NWO, one-world (socialist, of course) government. I guess some conspiracy theories would have to be true.

Posted by: Pyrocles at June 28, 2016 02:40 PM (fVOPU)

182 what exactly does Germany get out of supporting all of Europe? Why are they playing along?
Posted by: Nevergiveup at June 28, 2016 02:34 PM (zp+j1)


Hmmm, what were they after 75+ years ago?


Posted by: Our Country is Screwed - PROUD LGBT - Loves Guns, Beer and Tatas at June 28, 2016 02:40 PM (jxbfJ)

183 Czechs are fully expecting to be abandoned. They will fight however

Posted by: ThunderB at June 28, 2016 02:40 PM (dbBTG)

184 >>
It's the Republic of Ireland, by a lot.


Too Drunk to Fuck Pull Out is Ireland's Best LP.

Posted by: garrett at June 28, 2016 02:40 PM (9JISm)

185 Which country has the highest native birth rate? I believe it is France - but maybe someone knows.

Only France's fertility rate peeks above 2 (2.01, still below the replacement rate of 2.1) as of 2014 numbers. The EU as a whole averages 1.58.

Posted by: Brother Cavil at June 28, 2016 02:40 PM (9krrF)

186 If only there were some historical example of a European country using foreigners to protect their countries...

Posted by: Chupacabra at June 28, 2016 02:37 PM (F26eZ)


If one of you wankers mention Gallipoli, we'll gut you like a dingo!

Posted by: Australia at June 28, 2016 02:40 PM (TOk1P)

187 Protectionism never lasts, so I can live with someone who wants to apply it, over someone who thinks we have no borders and should invite more people in that hate everything we stand for and believe in.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at June 28, 2016 02:41 PM (39g3+)

188 London calling
Yes, I was there too
And you know what they said?
Get out of the EU!

Posted by: Blanco Basura at June 28, 2016 02:41 PM (4WhSY)

189 >>>175 "Which country has the highest native birth rate?"

It's the Republic of Ireland, by a lot. And it's not skewed by domestic Muslims. It's still down from days past. My Da was the youngest of 15. My Ma was from a small family -- just the five kids.

Germany's birth rate may be lower than Japan's, especially if you take out the Turks who came as guest workers in the 1970s.
Posted by: Ignoramus at June 28, 2016 02:39 PM (r1fLd)

_________________________

Technically Iceland, if you count them as Europe. But yes Ireland is right up there with them

Sadly, both are still slightly below the replacement of 2.1

Posted by: TeamRawDog at June 28, 2016 02:41 PM (10hEu)

190 Is Trump standing in front of a wall of crushed cans?

Posted by: eleven at June 28, 2016 02:42 PM (Z+McQ)

191 Those 3rd worlders make terrible soldiers when fighting for their own country. See how quickly the Iraqi army folded time and time again. They would be even worse fighting for a foreign country.

They are only good for street level rabble rousing r@pes and terrorism. They are very good at that, but they're a two trick pony.

Posted by: TeamRawDog


All true.

However, consider who they will be fighting, the enfeebled remainders of Europe.

It really doesn't take a competent fighting force to enslave them.

The fun part is that neo-aristocrats would have to convert in order to ride that tiger.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at June 28, 2016 02:42 PM (p2X2f)

192 186 If only there were some historical example of a European country using foreigners to protect their countries...

Posted by: Chupacabra at June 28, 2016 02:37 PM (F26eZ)


If one of you wankers mention Gallipoli, we'll gut you like a dingo!
Posted by: Australia at June 28, 2016 02:40 PM (TOk1P)

I think he is talking about us. We didn't wear mascara!

Posted by: The Goths at June 28, 2016 02:42 PM (3ZoRf)

193
Trump says he'll withdraw from TPP.

He's PO'd about China's theft of IP.

Says he'll renegotiate NAFTA.

Stomping all over Hillary for supporting these things from the beginning. Says she's changed her mind with the direction of the wind.

Says he'll label China a currency manipulator.

Gonna sue China at the WTO because of their unfair subsidies. Says he gonna be an enforcer.

If China doesn't knock off the theft, he'll tariff their asses. Cites federal laws that no other executive is bothering to enforce.

Posted by: iforgot at June 28, 2016 02:42 PM (pC96u)

194 Fascists gonna fascist.

Posted by: Monsieur Moo Moo at June 28, 2016 02:42 PM (0LHZx)

195 They haven't been a major player since the viking age.

Except for their bikini team.



Swedish king Gustavus Adolphus and the Holy Roman Empire of the German Nation, circa 1630 would respectfully disagree.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at June 28, 2016 02:42 PM (8ZskC)

196 what exactly does Germany get out of supporting all of Europe? Why are they playing along?

------------

Control over Europe.
Posted by: SH at June 28, 2016 02:35 PM (gmeXX)

They already pretty much do, and will control more now that the UK is pulling out

Posted by: Nevergiveup at June 28, 2016 02:42 PM (zp+j1)

197 Well, thanks for outing yourself.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at June 28, 2016 02:38 PM (GSdpU)
==============================================

What? We are all goose-stepping now and don't dare step out of line? If that's the case, we should all stop pointing a finger at the EU.

Posted by: grammie winger, 2 Chronicles 7:14 at June 28, 2016 02:42 PM (dFi94)

198 >>It's the Republic of Ireland, by a lot.

As if things weren't bad enough.

Posted by: JackStraw at June 28, 2016 02:42 PM (/tuJf)

199 170 >>Everybody goose step!


I don't know that one, but I can duck walk.

Posted by: Chuck Berry at June 28, 2016 02:38 PM (9JISm)


and I can MOON Walk...

Posted by: Neil Armstron at June 28, 2016 02:42 PM (qf6WZ)

200
Is Trump standing in front of a wall of crushed cans?
Posted by: eleven at June 28, 2016 02:42 PM (Z+McQ)
--------------------

It's an aluminum place. Rather festive.

Posted by: iforgot at June 28, 2016 02:42 PM (pC96u)

201 Every knee shall bend - it's all you need to know.

Posted by: FaCubeItches at June 28, 2016 02:42 PM (rznWS)

202 I do also have to wonder if we should be involved in the coming crisis, or should we let it play out a bit...

Posted by: Anon a mouse... at June 28, 2016 02:43 PM (C9pBZ)

203 Time to build the Galactica!!

Posted by: Banana Splits Guy at June 28, 2016 02:43 PM (dSuDi)

204 We offered the world order!!!

Posted by: Khan Merkel Singh at June 28, 2016 02:43 PM (A/+my)

205 The Communists are achieving their dream of ruling all of Europe, the 1968 Youth Movements who were in league with the Soviet Union don't need Russia anymore, they took over from the inside

Welcome to the EUSSR

Posted by: kbdabear at June 28, 2016 02:43 PM (quNlf)

206 As if it ever was. In WW2, Sweden's basic role was to show the Nazis all the shortcuts to Norway.

Posted by: grammie winger, 2 Chronicles 7:14 at June 28, 2016 02:38 PM (dFi94)



Yes, it ever was. Once.

Posted by: Charles XII of Sweden at June 28, 2016 02:43 PM (TOk1P)

207 Only France's fertility rate peeks above 2 (2.01, still below the replacement rate of 2.1) as of 2014 numbers. The EU as a whole averages 1.58.
Posted by: Brother Cavil at June 28, 2016 02:40 PM (9krrF)

___

And thats' driven by Ahmed and Ahmeda having 7 kids while Jean-Guy and Lisette have 0 kids.

Posted by: Monsieur Moo Moo at June 28, 2016 02:44 PM (0LHZx)

208 Hardest hit: The Principality of Sealand.

Posted by: MoJoTee at June 28, 2016 02:44 PM (aR8Ih)

209 187 Protectionism never lasts, so I can live with someone who wants to apply it, over someone who thinks we have no borders and should invite more people in that hate everything we stand for and believe in.
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at June 28, 2016 02:41 PM (39g3+)

=====================

Not only does it not last, but it hurts like a bitch while it does.

It got so bad in the War of 1812 that New England was getting surprisingly close to a real secessionist movement (that wasn't strict protectionism but a self imposed embargo, but close enough). Also, the tariff that led to the nullification crisis could probably be blamed with laying the groundwork for the Civil War (no tariff, the South does not gain a consolidated political identity and nor does South Carolina learn that it can lash out and achieve desired results).

But, given the two options we actually have...it's probably a lot better.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at June 28, 2016 02:44 PM (8o3AL)

210 "what exactly does Germany get out of supporting all of Europe?"

If there were no common currency, the deutschmark would appreciate greatly and Siemens would have a lot less sales. This can't sustain in the long run (the likes of Greeks will borrow to buy shit but will default in the end), but in the long run we're all dead anyway.

Posted by: Ignoramus at June 28, 2016 02:44 PM (r1fLd)

211
Oh good god. Trump is going full-blown protectionist to eleventy.
---------------------

He cited violations of international laws and agreements, too.

Posted by: iforgot at June 28, 2016 02:44 PM (pC96u)

212 Peruvia will never give away her Sovereignty!

Posted by: garrett at June 28, 2016 02:44 PM (9JISm)

213 @5: "You know, the last time Germany did something involving other European
nations' borders it turned out rather badly for everyone involved.
Wonder if this time will be any better."

What do you mean "turned out rather badly"? I made out like a fuckin' bandit!

Posted by: Uncle Joe Stalin at June 28, 2016 02:45 PM (rznWS)

214 Trump says...

Look...if we're getting cheated with both hands, we need to stop doing what gets us cheated.

Trump has a point here. If we're not going to protect our interests economically we're screwed. I know, I know, protectionism bad, but if your free trade is looking like an economic suicide pact, you really need to think again about whether that's the tool for the situation you find yourself in, y'know?

Posted by: Brother Cavil at June 28, 2016 02:45 PM (9krrF)

215 Welcome to the EUSSR

Posted by: kbdabear


We don't like to share. Allah forbids it.

Posted by: Al Eurabia at June 28, 2016 02:45 PM (p2X2f)

216 "Which country has the highest native birth rate?"

It's the Republic of Ireland, by a lot.

------------

So it is, well, you really never want to bet on the Irish.

Ireland and England have never had designs of controlling Europe. France and Germany have. Not surprising that they are cooperating in all this. Perhaps France is playing the long game. Let Germany pay for it now, and when you finally outnumber them, pick up the pieces.

Posted by: SH at June 28, 2016 02:45 PM (gmeXX)

217 >>They aren't even willing to resort to violence when their sisters,
wives, daughters, and girlfriends are being literally raped in the
streets.

Well, their governments are allowing it, but there are plenty of citizens who are fighting back.

Naturally, the local authorities then harass the citizens who have decided to fight back. Sick.

Posted by: Lizzy at June 28, 2016 02:45 PM (NOIQH)

218 And not for nothing, but can we take a mulligan on the upcoming Eurobullshit?

Posted by: Chupacabra at June 28, 2016 02:45 PM (F26eZ)

219 196 They already pretty much do, and will control more now that the UK is pulling out
Posted by: Nevergiveup at June 28, 2016 02:42 PM (zp+j1)

=================

That only happens if they take advantage of the situation by consolidating power now. If they let the situation play itself out, more countries leave and Germany's potential power decreases.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at June 28, 2016 02:45 PM (8o3AL)

220 What really makes me laugh is that the Interventionalists and Global Government crowd wants to go to war with Russia so that Ukraine can be "free and prosperous"

Stick with Putin, at least you know the price up front and you're actually allowed to defend yourself against muzzies

Posted by: kbdabear at June 28, 2016 02:45 PM (quNlf)

221 Who gets Alsace, this time?

Posted by: MTF at June 28, 2016 02:45 PM (/m8T6)

222 Also, the Swedes kicked the Cossack asses of the Russians under Peter the Great repeatedly. So don't go dissin' the Swedes. They're not all Volvos and luteksik.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at June 28, 2016 02:46 PM (8ZskC)

223 It's almost sublime in its execution, the biology of the thing. Whole nations that will not even procreate to perpetuate themselves... Europe is one Great Sad Panda.
Posted by: BurtTC at June 28, 2016 02:38 PM (TOk1P)

I told you this would happen. But did you listen? Oh, no, you were too busy having a good time!

Posted by: Pope Paul VI at June 28, 2016 02:46 PM (7HtZB)

224 They haven't been a major player since the viking age.



Except for their bikini team.

Posted by: TeamRawDog at June 28, 2016 02:39 PM (10hEu)
============================================

My late father-in-law was in the Swedish military. I believe he said he never once came in contact with a firearm. He did look nice in his uniform though.

Posted by: grammie winger, 2 Chronicles 7:14 at June 28, 2016 02:46 PM (dFi94)

225 It's an aluminum place. Rather festive.


It is. Looks like modern art.

Posted by: eleven at June 28, 2016 02:46 PM (Z+McQ)

226 starting to think it will be governing class against the unwashed rabble.
Been there. Done that.

Posted by: 1848 at June 28, 2016 02:28 PM (A/+my)

Yeah but a hell of a lot more bloodier this time

Posted by: Drill Thrawl at June 28, 2016 02:46 PM (oR3Xa)

227 There's an emergency of global proportions. We must allow our leaders to depart on Ark B immediately!

And for their health, we should send the telephone sanitizers with them.

Posted by: Blanco Basura at June 28, 2016 02:46 PM (4WhSY)

228 Since when do we have free trade?

Posted by: Chupacabra at June 28, 2016 02:46 PM (F26eZ)

229 The really good news is that there will be high speed trains criss-crossing the continent!

Posted by: Little Joey Biden at June 28, 2016 02:46 PM (/m8T6)

230 Alsace? Does that go well with beef?

Posted by: Anon a mouse... at June 28, 2016 02:47 PM (C9pBZ)

231 Build the dang wall!

Posted by: John, my maverick is showing, McCain at June 28, 2016 02:47 PM (86StK)

232 Poland won't stand for that. They're not exactly a fan of their larger neighbors bossing them around. Bad experiences with that and what not.

Posted by: brak at June 28, 2016 02:47 PM (MJuTN)

233 >>Trump has a point here. If we're not going to protect our interests economically we're screwed. I know, I know, protectionism bad, but if your free trade is looking like an economic suicide pact, you really need to think again about whether that's the tool for the situation you find yourself in, y'know?

Free trade is not a thing, it's a process. You don't have to throw out the idea of free trade just because you don't like some of the ways it is currently being implemented. That would be like ending democracy because we were dumb enough to elect Obama, twice

Protectionism never works. Never has, never will.

Posted by: JackStraw at June 28, 2016 02:47 PM (/tuJf)

234 Who gets Alsace, this time?

I think it goes to this chick named "Lorraine".

Posted by: Blanco Basura at June 28, 2016 02:47 PM (4WhSY)

235 >>They already pretty much do, and will control more now that the UK is pulling out


Which we voted against - Xenophobic Onanists, the lot of them!

Posted by: The Irish at June 28, 2016 02:48 PM (9JISm)

236 Alsace? Does that go well with beef?




Ask Lorainne.

Posted by: rickb223 TEXIT at June 28, 2016 02:48 PM (kWQPe)

237 222 Also, the Swedes kicked the Cossack asses of the Russians under Peter the Great repeatedly. So don't go dissin' the Swedes. They're not all Volvos and luteksik.
Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at June 28, 2016 02:46 PM (8ZskC)

The Russians won the Great Northern War under Peter The Great & ended Sweden's reign as a major European power.

Posted by: josephistan at June 28, 2016 02:48 PM (7HtZB)

238 Trump isn't going all protectionists for fuck's sake. He going all "if you're going to cheat, we'll fight back". I'm the biggest free trader there is. But the key part of that is **FREE**. China lies cheats and steals on every trade transaction, currency manipulation, IP theft, bribery, you name it. Saying enough is enough with China's bullshit is not anti-trade. It's the same as saying we want to stop illegals from coming here and then being accused of anti-immigrant sentiment.

Posted by: Monsieur Moo Moo at June 28, 2016 02:48 PM (0LHZx)

239 229 Posted by: Little Joey Biden at June 28, 2016 02:46 PM (/m8T6)

===================

I told you to stay in your corner while the grown ups are talking!

Posted by: President Obama at June 28, 2016 02:48 PM (8o3AL)

240 Judging from the other pieces that pass for truth at that site, I'd say this article falls squarely in the "full of shit" department. No one goes full retarded....NO ONE!!!

Posted by: Orson at June 28, 2016 02:48 PM (Y5Ygq)

241 CNN: The most vocal architect of Britain's seismic decision to leave the
European Union thumbed his nose at the EU Parliament Tuesday as members
booed and turned their backs on him, in the most visible clash of
ideologies between Britain and Europe

CNN: Trillions will be lost by the British, the UK is going to pay heavily for this.
CNN's Christiane Amanpour that the UK would not be able to belong to the
European single market without accepting the free movement of people.

Posted by: Colin at June 28, 2016 02:48 PM (HQP2c)

242 Protectionism never works. Never has, never will.
Posted by: JackStraw at June 28, 2016 02:47 PM (/tuJf)

__

Agreed.

And Trump isn't calling for protectionism.

Posted by: Monsieur Moo Moo at June 28, 2016 02:49 PM (0LHZx)

243 Since when do we have free trade?

Hush, you'll jostle the free trade folks.

Posted by: Brother Cavil at June 28, 2016 02:49 PM (9krrF)

244 The tighter your grip, the more countries that will slip through your fingers Grand Moff Merkel.

Posted by: Prince Nigel at June 28, 2016 02:49 PM (WVsWD)

245 Also, the Swedes kicked the Cossack asses of the Russians under Peter the Great repeatedly. So don't go dissin' the Swedes. They're not all Volvos and luteksik.
Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at June 28, 2016 02:46 PM (8ZskC)

The Russians won the Great Northern War under Peter The Great & ended Sweden's reign as a major European power.

Posted by: josephistan at June 28, 2016 02:48 PM (7HtZB)



Le Sigh... that's what I was implying upthread there.

Posted by: Charles XII of Sweden at June 28, 2016 02:49 PM (TOk1P)

246 They would have been NonUniformed Combatants... and could have been shot out of hand as spies....

Posted by: Don Q. at June 28, 2016 02:36 PM (qf6WZ)



What scares me as well, is the fact that apparently there were Marines changing from uniforms to civvies (and back) at the direction of a Marine officer who should have refused to sanction this action because this was an illegal order and put his men in both harm's way and denied them the right to be Marines per the Geneva Convention!

Posted by: Hrothgar at June 28, 2016 02:49 PM (wYnyS)

247 Xenophobic onanists"

Wasn't she in one of the Bond flicks?

Posted by: Anon a mouse... at June 28, 2016 02:49 PM (C9pBZ)

248 1. Any Member State may decide to withdraw from the Union in accordance with its own constitutional requirements.

2. A Member State which decides to withdraw shall notify the European Council of its intention. In the light of the guidelines provided by the European Council, the Union shall negotiate and conclude an agreement with that State. setting out the arrangements for its withdrawal, taking account of the framework for its future relationship with the Union. That agreement shall be negotiated in accordance with Article 218(3) of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union. It shall be concluded on behalf of the Union by the Council, acting by a qualified majority, after obtaining the consent of the European Parliament.

3. The Treaties shall cease to apply to the State in question from the date of entry into force of the withdrawal agreement or, failing that, two years after the notification referred to in paragraph 2, unless the European Council, in agreement with the Member State concerned, unanimously decides to extend this period.

4. For the purposes of paragraphs 2 and 3, the member of the European Council or of the Council representing the withdrawing Member State shall not participate in the discussions of the European Council or Council or in decisions concerning it.

A qualified majority shall be defined in accordance with Article 238(3)(b) of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union.

5. If a State which has withdrawn from the Union asks to rejoin, its request shall be subject to the procedure referred to in Article 49.


lisbon-treaty.org

http://preview.tinyurl.com/ctalshr

Posted by: Jan Ne Onhert at June 28, 2016 02:49 PM (qNlse)

249 If we're not going to protect our interests economically we're screwed.

-----------

Free trade does protect our interests economically. I'm more than willing for the US to become richer at another's nation expense.

Posted by: SH at June 28, 2016 02:49 PM (gmeXX)

250 Well Czechs have a hunting culture and most have guns

Posted by: ThunderB at June 28, 2016 02:50 PM (dbBTG)

251 There is a new term for
Powerful Technocratic Busybodies Ruling Their Lives ...


Ass-ist

Posted by: Islamic Rage Boy at June 28, 2016 02:50 PM (e8kgV)

252 My late father-in-law was in the Swedish military.
---------------------------------------------------

The Swedes have great uniforms. My grandfather was awarded a "knight" designation by the King, one of those things they give to immigrants after they make good in the US, and he got to wear a formal uniform with a big sash as part of the gig. It was tremendous to look at when I was a kid. We had to return it on his death to the embassy, which was too bad.

Posted by: MTF at June 28, 2016 02:50 PM (/m8T6)

253 "have a lot less sales"

The idea is to drive out the competition. Destroy technical competency everywhere around the world. Make the world dependent on imports and don't allow competing products or ideas.

Then who cares if someone defaults. Just quit feeding the deadbeats and they die out and their land and natural resources are easy pickings. See Venezuela.

Posted by: Ok at June 28, 2016 02:50 PM (rnH8X)

254 Free Trade is a lie.

Europe is a dangerous carny clown.

Posted by: eman at June 28, 2016 02:50 PM (Py52h)

255 any person who thinks 'free trade' is an unmitigated good and doesn't know what the Schedule B is needs to shut the fuck up and sit in the fucking corner

Posted by: weft cut-loop at June 28, 2016 02:51 PM (p2X2f)

256
"Time to believe in America, time to believe in each other."

He could use that against Hillary with all her "we are stronger together" shit which actually means "from each according to his ability, to each according to his needs."

Posted by: iforgot at June 28, 2016 02:51 PM (pC96u)

257 I'm coming, Mr Bond!

Posted by: Xenophobia Onanist at June 28, 2016 02:51 PM (A/+my)

258 250 Well Czechs have a hunting culture and most have guns
Posted by: ThunderB at June 28, 2016 02:50 PM (dbBTG)

___

Amazing what a Soviet / Nazi invasion or 2 does to a country's views on self defense huh?

Posted by: Monsieur Moo Moo at June 28, 2016 02:51 PM (0LHZx)

259 We have a fucking corner? Why didn't anyone tell me?

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at June 28, 2016 02:51 PM (8ZskC)

260 @163 Perhaps if we let them have the Czech Republic, Hungary and Slovakia then they will leave everyone else alone.
I mean, it sounds reasonable, doesn't it.

Yep. I know I keep beating the same drum, but what the fuck did the shit-for-brains "Get our military out of Europe!" "conservatives" think was going to happen when we left a power vacuum? Fucking knobs. Tens of thousands of lives and countless billions of dollars spent to get and hold and build up those bases, and the sniveling shitweasels gave it all up to "balance the budget". Fucking assholes.

Posted by: Lincolntf at June 28, 2016 02:51 PM (2cS/G)

261 He's negotiating. It's hard to recognize a tough negotiator because Republicans have so little experience with it

Posted by: ThunderB at June 28, 2016 02:51 PM (dbBTG)

262 255 any person who thinks 'free trade' is an unmitigated good and doesn't know what the Schedule B is needs to shut the fuck up and sit in the fucking corner
Posted by: weft cut-loop at June 28, 2016 02:51 PM (p2X2f)

=============

I haven't been participating in this part of the discussion, but who's advocating that?

Who's saying that free trade has no downsides?

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at June 28, 2016 02:52 PM (8o3AL)

263 >>And Trump isn't calling for protectionism.

He's been calling for protectionism for quite some time. When he met with the NYT editorial board, he said he would implement a 45% tariff on all Chinese products.

That is the definition of protectionism.

Posted by: JackStraw at June 28, 2016 02:52 PM (/tuJf)

264 Be sure and invade the Swiss after 5pm -- Their fighter pilots are off for the day then.

Posted by: GnuBreed at June 28, 2016 02:52 PM (gyKtp)

265 Should someone tell CNN that currently there are not trade agreements amongst all of the parties they mention?

Posted by: Anon a mouse... at June 28, 2016 02:52 PM (C9pBZ)

266 Controversially member states would also lose what few controls they have left over their own borders, including the procedure for admitting and relocating refugees.

So this is Merkel and Hollande's way of dumping the rapefugees in Eastern Europe before their own populations reach the breaking point and start hanging Eurocrats


Posted by: kbdabear at June 28, 2016 02:52 PM (quNlf)

267 Who's saying that free trade has no downsides?

Posted by: TheJamesMadison


The GOPe and their courtesans.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at June 28, 2016 02:53 PM (p2X2f)

268 but what the fuck did the shit-for-brains "Get our military out of Europe!" "conservatives" think

---------------

Did I miss something? When were conservatives ever advocating for removing the military from Europe?

Posted by: SH at June 28, 2016 02:53 PM (gmeXX)

269 The EUnazis don't have a large enough military age cohort with which to enact this.
-------
We're tanned, rested and ready!

Posted by: Millions of Chinese Men without hope of spouses at June 28, 2016 02:53 PM (dQJCS)

270 We had to return it on his death to the embassy, which was too bad.

Posted by: MTF at June 28, 2016 02:50 PM (/m8T6)
===========================================

That IS too bad. It sounds like a beautiful ceremonial uniform. When my late father-in-law died, they asked if he was a Veteran. We kind of told them "not so's you'd notice."

Posted by: grammie winger, 2 Chronicles 7:14 at June 28, 2016 02:53 PM (dFi94)

271
We have a fucking corner? Why didn't anyone tell me?


Technically it's a fapping corner, but occasionally a couple of people get drunk enough and end up there at the same time. I'm sure you can figure out the rest.

Posted by: Blanco Basura at June 28, 2016 02:53 PM (4WhSY)

272 Well...no one can say Trump doesn't have a plan now.

Posted by: eleven at June 28, 2016 02:53 PM (Z+McQ)

273

Negotiations with Republican leadership start when they give you everything you asked for. Then you demand more

Posted by: ThunderB at June 28, 2016 02:54 PM (dbBTG)

274 @82: "This time the Superstate will give Europeans the one thing they didn't get the last time around: Lebensraum."

How do you pronounce that in Arabic....because that's probably going to be important.

Posted by: FaCubeItches at June 28, 2016 02:54 PM (rznWS)

275 261 He's negotiating. It's hard to recognize a tough negotiator because Republicans have so little experience with it
Posted by: ThunderB at June 28, 2016 02:51 PM (dbBTG)

=====================

I'm no Trump fan, but it would be nice if the GOP could at least adopt some of his techniques.

"No income taxes!"
"You can't say that!"
"I repeat no taxes!"
"You have to have some taxes!"
"Again! No taxes!"
"Come on, let's agree on some taxes."
"Alright, I'll let you have a flat tax of 10% or it's nothing."
"Crap..."

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at June 28, 2016 02:54 PM (8o3AL)

276 Germans wanting to take over all of Europe?

Nah, you could not sell that script.

Well, maybe every 50 years or so.

Posted by: Joe Mama at June 28, 2016 02:54 PM (TMgNe)

277 267 The GOPe and their courtesans.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at June 28, 2016 02:53 PM (p2X2f)

=================

Cool.

Quote?

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at June 28, 2016 02:54 PM (8o3AL)

278 Their fighter pilots are off for the day then.

----

Pilots??

As in more than one??

Posted by: fixerupper at June 28, 2016 02:54 PM (8XRCm)

279 Is the fucking corner in your office, Miss Money Penny?

Posted by: Xenophobia Onanist at June 28, 2016 02:55 PM (A/+my)

280 More "Libertarians" than conservatives, but I heard/saw it all the time. In fact, I still see ignorant mofos demanding we leave Europe, not knowing that we already did (for all intents and purposes).

Posted by: Lincolntf at June 28, 2016 02:55 PM (2cS/G)

281 Oh goody. Another AoS (tm) circular firing squad.
Ready,
Shoot!

Posted by: Anon a mouse... at June 28, 2016 02:55 PM (C9pBZ)

282
He's been calling for protectionism for quite some time. When he met with the NYT editorial board, he said he would implement a 45% tariff on all Chinese products.

That is the definition of protectionism.
Posted by: JackStraw at June 28, 2016 02:52 PM (/tuJf)

____

45% is about right given the Yuan is 50% under valued.

Posted by: Monsieur Moo Moo at June 28, 2016 02:55 PM (0LHZx)

283

Gee

I thought it high time somebody play hard ball with the Chinese

Posted by: ThunderB at June 28, 2016 02:55 PM (dbBTG)

284
EU Schemers Have Exactly the Right Medicine for Citizens Sick of Technocratic Busybodies Ruling Their Lives: Even More Powerful Technocratic Busybodies Ruling Their Lives


I sense the hand of Herr Dr. Prof. Marius von Totenkopf at work here ...

Posted by: Austan Goolsbee at June 28, 2016 02:55 PM (FlRtG)

285 I'm no Trump fan, but it would be nice if the GOP could at least adopt some of his techniques.

-----------

I do recall some of us pointing out that Cruz said he would eliminate the current income tax and get rid of the IRS, to which Trump supporters would say that is stupid. I never actually believed that Cruz would get rid of the IRS, but I liked the opening play.

Posted by: SH at June 28, 2016 02:56 PM (gmeXX)

286 "Free trade does protect our interests economically. I'm more than willing for the US to become richer at another's nation expense."

I think you have been conned by a Kansas City Shuffle. You think you know what the con is and how you can win. eg cheat the cheaters.

If there was free trade then smugglers couldn't exist.
If it is possible to cheat then people will.
Russia keeps its agreements in a way that others consider not keeping them. Russia claims it always kept to the letter of the treaty.

Posted by: Ok at June 28, 2016 02:56 PM (rnH8X)

287 [I thought it high time somebody play hard ball with the Chinese
Posted by: ThunderB at June 28, 2016 02:55 PM (dbBTG)


*gulp*

Posted by: Rudyard Kipling at June 28, 2016 02:56 PM (8ZskC)

288 Free trade does protect our interests economically. I'm more than willing for the US to become richer at another's nation expense.

Posted by: SH at June 28, 2016 02:49 PM (gmeXX)


Please explain how an $800 BILLION trade imbalance is good for the US?

The fact is our own government puts so many burdens on US companies, including Taxes, that they cannot compete.

We don't have Free Trade... and THAT is not going to change...

So you then have to ask how can we level that playing field ESPECIALLY when the other side is consistently cheating on those Trade Deals...

Posted by: Don Q, at June 28, 2016 02:56 PM (qf6WZ)

289

Tell me smart guys


How do you bring the Chinese to heel?

Backrubs?

Posted by: ThunderB at June 28, 2016 02:57 PM (dbBTG)

290 "This isn't new. Its terribly old. Its the European way of doing things which has never changed. They rejected kings and nobles but replaced them with a different set of elites they tug the forelock to. Authoritarianism is in their blood. Their economic system and culture has always been this way. They never even gave capitalism a chance, they went from an economic system where the state controlled everything through kings to one where it does so through politicians."

This ^^^

Posted by: sock_rat_eez_ at June 28, 2016 02:57 PM (gUoN4)

291 #284 Oh, no, man!!! It's happening again!!! BAD TRIP!!! OR AM I FLASHING-BACK!!!

Posted by: a. stoner at June 28, 2016 02:57 PM (A/+my)

292 285 I do recall some of us pointing out that Cruz said he would eliminate the current income tax and get rid of the IRS, to which Trump supporters would say that is stupid. I never actually believed that Cruz would get rid of the IRS, but I liked the opening play.
Posted by: SH at June 28, 2016 02:56 PM (gmeXX)

====================

I remember that guy.

He was good.

But oh well, he lost. I'll vote for a president/vice president on the ballot. No writing in for me.

#Johnson/Weld because what's a protest vote when it makes any sense at all?

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at June 28, 2016 02:57 PM (8o3AL)

293 More "Libertarians" than conservatives, but I heard/saw it all the time. In fact, I still see ignorant mofos demanding we leave Europe, not knowing that we already did (for all intents and purposes).

------------

Libertarians sure. But I cannot think of one conservative (purportive, real or otherwise - elected or pundit) that ever advocated for the removal of our military from Europe.

Posted by: SH at June 28, 2016 02:57 PM (gmeXX)

294 Gah! Just when I try to reconcile myself to Not-Hillary he goes full bore against everything I believe in.

Posted by: Bandersnatch at June 28, 2016 02:26 PM (1xUj/)


Well, thanks for outing yourself.
Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon



Outing?

I don't expect everyone to follow all of my opinions, but to be clear I hate Trump. I have hated Trump since I first heard of him when I moved to NYC in 1983. I've hated everything he's said in this campaign.

I hate his crapweasel headpiece and his orange spray paint.

I hope that's clear.

Posted by: Bandersnatch at June 28, 2016 02:57 PM (1xUj/)

295 227 Blanco Basura

Excellent Douglas Adams reference!

Maybe NASA can be useful after all.

Posted by: NaCly Dog at June 28, 2016 02:58 PM (hyuyC)

296 I thought it high time somebody play hard ball with the Chinese
Posted by: ThunderB at June 28, 2016 02:55 PM (dbBTG)

the Chinese have a team? Who's on First?

Posted by: Nevergiveup at June 28, 2016 02:58 PM (zp+j1)

297 Negotiations with Republican leadership start when they give you everything you asked for +10%. Then you demand more

Posted by: ThunderB at June 28, 2016 02:54 PM (dbBTG)

FIFY

Posted by: Hrothgar at June 28, 2016 02:58 PM (wYnyS)

298 Hu

Posted by: Costello at June 28, 2016 02:58 PM (8ZskC)

299 >>the Chinese have a team? Who's on First?

Wu.

Posted by: JackStraw at June 28, 2016 02:59 PM (/tuJf)

300 Asian massage? I thought that was a front rub...

Posted by: Anon a mouse... at June 28, 2016 02:59 PM (C9pBZ)

301 I hope that's clear.

Posted by: Bandersnatch at June 28, 2016 02:57 PM (1xUj/)
=========================================

Could you clarify that?

Posted by: grammie winger, 2 Chronicles 7:14 at June 28, 2016 02:59 PM (dFi94)

302 The fact is our own government puts so many burdens on US companies, including Taxes, that they cannot compete.

--------------

On that I agree. That really isn't a free trade discussion though is it? That is a domestic policy discussion. Does our government impose taxes and regulations that burden our companies - absolutely. I'm all in favor of getting rid of such things.

Posted by: SH at June 28, 2016 02:59 PM (gmeXX)

303 While there were 418 deaths in "mass shootings" from 2000 to 2013, there were 800 deaths by bicycle in 2010 alone.

This sounds like a job for ... Bicycle Repairman


The Catholic Church would like to register a complaint about the use of the term "mass shootings. While they may have harassed or assaulted a few youths .. they have never condoned a single "Mass shooting"

Posted by: Islamic Rage Boy at June 28, 2016 02:59 PM (e8kgV)

304 This ain't a real estate deal. Politicians and leaders of other countries will cut off their nose to spite their face if they are insulted and bullied for all to see. Trump needs to continue with a tough persona but needs to temper his rhetoric if he wants future cooperation. If that's not his goal then fine, continue with the shoot from the hip style.

Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck at June 28, 2016 02:59 PM (nFitA)

305 Then I guess we travel in different circles, because I still hear it from "conservatives" who bleat about "Using our military to prop up the Socialist European system". I guess their theory is that if they had to spend their own for their own defense, they would have less money for stupid Socialist schemes. How'd that work out?

Posted by: Lincolntf at June 28, 2016 03:00 PM (2cS/G)

306 >>>191

All true.

However, consider who they will be fighting, the enfeebled remainders of Europe.

It really doesn't take a competent fighting force to enslave them.

The fun part is that neo-aristocrats would have to convert in order to ride that tiger.
Posted by: weft cut-loop at June 28, 2016 02:42 PM (p2X2f)

______________________

Perhaps, but I think they will be enslaved by Putin instead. The Russians are drunks, but they're fightin' drunks.

Like the Irish.

Russia/Ireland 2050 - The Drunken Stumble Across Europe to See Who Can Drink All of Germany's Beer First

Posted by: TeamRawDog at June 28, 2016 03:00 PM (10hEu)

307 Candy and flowers?

Posted by: ThunderB at June 28, 2016 03:00 PM (dbBTG)

308 This ain't a real estate deal. Politicians and leaders of other countries will cut off their nose to spite their face if they are insulted and bullied for all to see.



Good. It's their asses.

Posted by: rickb223 TEXIT at June 28, 2016 03:00 PM (kWQPe)

309 We kind of told them "not so's you'd notice."

Posted by: grammie winger, 2 Chronicles 7:14 at June 28, 2016 02:53 PM (dFi94)
==========================

These are great memories for the families, but you are right, no one else would really notice (or probably should). It's not like it was important, like fighting for America would be for example.

Posted by: MTF at June 28, 2016 03:01 PM (/m8T6)

310 Refuse to let China sit at your lunch table?

Posted by: ThunderB at June 28, 2016 03:01 PM (dbBTG)

311 Did somebody say grandly retarded? I like it.

Posted by: Hillarrhoids at June 28, 2016 03:01 PM (HgMAr)

312 304 This ain't a real estate deal. Politicians and leaders of other countries will cut off their nose to spite their face if they are insulted and bullied for all to see. Trump needs to continue with a tough persona but needs to temper his rhetoric if he wants future cooperation. If that's not his goal then fine, continue with the shoot from the hip style.
Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck at June 28, 2016 02:59 PM (nFitA)

Not our problem.

Posted by: eman at June 28, 2016 03:01 PM (Py52h)

313 So you then have to ask how can we level that playing field ESPECIALLY when the other side is consistently cheating on those Trade Deals...

---------------

I would level the playing field by simply getting rid of all tariffs. If another country wants to impose them and make themselves poorer, so be it.

Posted by: SH at June 28, 2016 03:01 PM (gmeXX)

314 Ever have days where you just feel fat? I feel fat today. In case you were wondering.

Posted by: grammie winger, 2 Chronicles 7:14 at June 28, 2016 03:02 PM (dFi94)

315 Has it been reported whether they'd keep the local regional national political structure?

I'm going to bet yes.

Posted by: Bigbys Cellphone at June 28, 2016 03:02 PM (wmxwV)

316

Oh I know


Hash tag tweets


#Play Fair

#StopCurrencyManipulation

Posted by: ThunderB at June 28, 2016 03:02 PM (dbBTG)

317 280 More "Libertarians" than conservatives, but I heard/saw it all the time. In fact, I still see ignorant mofos demanding we leave Europe, not knowing that we already did (for all intents and purposes).
Posted by: Lincolntf at June 28, 2016 02:55 PM (2cS/G

We became the Morlocks, they became the Eloi. Being in Europe (for completely good reasons) allowed the Europeans to essentially both lose a sense of national identity and also their ability to defend themselves. As long as we stayed, they never gave two thoughts to their own defense. This has gone on long enough that they do not even think about needing to defend themselves.

I understand your points and even agree with them to an extent from a strategic perspective. However, from a cultural perspective, I have trouble investing our blood and treasure defending idiots who do not even care to try to defend themselves and then spit on us for doing it.

Posted by: Aetius451AD at June 28, 2016 03:02 PM (3ZoRf)

318 Refuse to let China sit at your lunch table?


Well...they do shit in public.

Posted by: eleven at June 28, 2016 03:02 PM (Z+McQ)

319 Tell me smart guys


How do you bring the Chinese to heel?

Backrubs?

Posted by: ThunderB at June 28, 2016 02:57 PM (dbBTG)
..................

With two you get eggroll.

Posted by: wth at June 28, 2016 03:02 PM (HgMAr)

320 316

Oh I know


Hash tag tweets


#Play Fair

#StopCurrencyManipulation
Posted by: ThunderB at June 28, 2016 03:02 PM (dbBTG)

====================

ThunderB must have been behind the hack of Clinton's team.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison at June 28, 2016 03:03 PM (8o3AL)

321 free trade ...ha..ha..ha..

6505000100 - - HAIR-NETS [HATS AND OTHER HEADGEAR, KNITTED OR CROCHETED, OR MADE UP FROM LACE, FELT OR OTHER TEXTILE FABRIC, IN THE PIECE (BUT NOT IN STRIPS), WHETHER OR NOT LINED OR TRIMMED; HAIR-NETS OF ANY MATERIAL, WHETHER OR NOT LINED OR TRIMMED: - HAIR-NETS]
6505000900 - - FELT HATS AND OTHER FELT HEADGEAR, MADE FROM THE HAT BODIES, HOODS OR PLATEAUX OF HEADING 6501, WHETHER OR NOT LINED OR TRIMMED [HATS AND OTHER HEADGEAR, KNITTED OR CROCHETED, OR MADE UP FROM LACE, FELT OR OTHER TEXTILE FABRIC, IN THE PIECE (BUT NOT IN STRIPS), WHETHER OR NOT LINED OR TRIMMED; HAIR-NETS OF ANY MATERIAL, WHETHER OR NOT LINED OR TRIMMED: - OTHER:- - FELT HATS AND OTHER FELT HEADGEAR, MADE FROM THE HAT BODIES, HOODS OR PLATEAUX OF HEADING 6501, WHETHER OR NOT LINED OR TRIMMED]
6505008015 - - NONWOVEN DISPOSABLE HEADGEAR WITHOUT PEAKS OR VISORS, OF MANMADE FIBERS [HATS AND OTHER HEADGEAR, KNITTED OR CROCHETED, OR MADE UP FROM LACE, FELT OR OTHER TEXTILE FABRIC, IN THE PIECE (BUT NOT IN STRIPS), WHETHER OR NOT LINED OR TRIMMED; HAIR-NETS OF ANY MATERIAL, WHETHER OR NOT LINED OR TRIMMED: - OTHER:- - NONWOVEN DISPOSABLE HEADGEAR WITHOUT PEAKS OR VISORS, OF MANMADE FIBERS]
6505008600 - - OTHER [HATS AND OTHER HEADGEAR, KNITTED OR CROCHETED, OR MADE UP FROM LACE, FELT OR OTHER TEXTILE FABRIC, IN THE PIECE (BUT NOT IN STRIPS), WHETHER OR NOT LINED OR TRIMMED; HAIR-NETS OF ANY MATERIAL, WHETHER OR NOT LINED OR TRIMMED: - OTHER:- - OTHER]

Posted by: Ok at June 28, 2016 03:03 PM (jN+3o)

322 305,
Interesting circles you have there, then.

I've never met a single "right side"of the aisle person who advocated tossing Europe overboard...

Posted by: Anon a mouse... at June 28, 2016 03:03 PM (C9pBZ)

323 Perhaps, but I think they will be enslaved by Putin instead. The Russians are drunks, but they're fightin' drunks.

Like the Irish.

Russia/Ireland 2050 - The Drunken Stumble Across Europe to See Who Can Drink All of Germany's Beer First

Posted by: TeamRawDog


You'd have to admit the concept of drunken Russians fighting 3rd worlder jihadis for the scraps of Europe would make for a fun series of books.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at June 28, 2016 03:03 PM (p2X2f)

324 Ever have days where you just feel fat? I feel fat today. In case you were wondering.

You don't sound fat.

Posted by: eleven at June 28, 2016 03:03 PM (Z+McQ)

325 Posted by: eman at June 28, 2016 03:01 PM (Py52h)

They will make it our problem. Again if that's your goal to bring everything to a head , then Trump is on the right track.

Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck at June 28, 2016 03:04 PM (nFitA)

326

Sell China arms?

Ohow of think the Clintons slreadyou tried that


So smart guys

Tell me how you bring China to herl?

Posted by: ThunderB at June 28, 2016 03:04 PM (dbBTG)

327 You don't sound fat.

Posted by: eleven at June 28, 2016 03:03 PM (Z+McQ)
========================================

Thanks eleven.

Posted by: grammie winger, 2 Chronicles 7:14 at June 28, 2016 03:04 PM (dFi94)

328 Lace wigs trade?

Posted by: Anon a mouse... at June 28, 2016 03:05 PM (C9pBZ)

329 We're tanned, rested and ready!

Posted by: Millions of Chinese Men without hope of spouses at June 28, 2016 02:53 PM (dQJCS)


How would Putin react if he inspected an EU tank division and found a chink in its armor?

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at June 28, 2016 03:05 PM (8ZskC)

330 Interesting circles you have there, then.

I've never met a single "right side"of the aisle person who advocated tossing Europe overboard...

------------

I'm not sure "conservative" means what you think it means. I have never heard a "conservative" call for removing our troops from Europe.

Posted by: SH at June 28, 2016 03:05 PM (gmeXX)

331 Could a president Trump just seize all of Soro's assets somehow? Extra-legally of course. Even if he just burned all Soro's money like the Joker in the Dark Knight.

Seriously. I think I'd be OK with it. It sets a very bad, no good, terrible president, and I'm sure it would be abused.

But in the long run I think it would be a net good. Soros is a real life Bond-esque super villain.

Posted by: TeamRawDog at June 28, 2016 03:05 PM (10hEu)

332 Posted by: Ok at June 28, 2016 03:03 PM (jN+3o)

Ok....

*backs up and nudges the box of hairnets away*

Posted by: Aetius451AD at June 28, 2016 03:05 PM (3ZoRf)

333 Posted by: Islamic Rage Boy at June 28, 2016 02:59 PM (e8kgV)


There were 33,600 gun deaths in the US in 2013...

There were 983,00 Abortions that year...

Yet Guns can be regulated, Abortions cannot...

Posted by: Don Q, at June 28, 2016 03:05 PM (qf6WZ)

334 NATO is no longer of use to us.



Posted by: eman at June 28, 2016 03:05 PM (Py52h)

335 Follow-up on earlier Benghazi thread.

I looked at the opening section of the Gowdy Report for the explanation of why Stevens was in Benghazi in the first place. It's farcical on its face by saying that Stevens was hanging out in the CIA annex discussing how they could turn Benghazi into a real consulate that could hand out visas and so spare the locals from having to travel to Tripoli and maybe even host a visit from Secretary Clinton, while simultaneously detailing the dangers in Benghazi and how security was lacking, and had even been cut substantially back in Tripoli.

And people write this stuff with a straight face.

Posted by: Ignoramus at June 28, 2016 03:06 PM (r1fLd)

336 I don't expect everyone to follow all of my opinions, but to be clear I hate Trump. I have hated Trump since I first heard of him when I moved to NYC in 1983. I've hated everything he's said in this campaign.

I hate his crapweasel headpiece and his orange spray paint.

I hope that's clear.

Posted by: Bandersnatch at June 28, 2016 02:57 PM (1xUj/)


Well, if you are opposed to "everything" he stands for, you're on Team Hillary, then. Fair enough.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at June 28, 2016 03:06 PM (GSdpU)

337 We still have mutual defense treaties with most European countries, and they still have little mousefart military's. Because why would they build a military while we can keep spending on their defense?

Losing the forward bases didn't do anything to change that dynamic.

Posted by: Chupacabra at June 28, 2016 03:06 PM (F26eZ)

338 I know

We will have our EU friends make a firm stand with us against China


Hahahahaha

Posted by: ThunderB at June 28, 2016 03:06 PM (dbBTG)

339 Enacting or removing tariffs is policy. Free trade is also a policy. Which you have is determined by which advantages you.

This is policy - not Holy Writ.

Posted by: *Mikey NTH - Tent Sale at the Outrage Outlet! Sizzling Summer Savings on Slurs, Slams, and Slanders at June 28, 2016 03:07 PM (hLRSq)

340
325 Posted by: eman at June 28, 2016 03:01 PM (Py52h)

They will make it our problem. Again if that's your goal to bring everything to a head , then Trump is on the right track.
Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck at June 28, 2016 03:04 PM (nFitA)

Fear.

Posted by: eman at June 28, 2016 03:07 PM (Py52h)

341 >>So smart guys

>>Tell me how you bring China to her?

Are you under the impression that the bozos we have had negotiating trade deals for us are the best and brightest? Looking around the government why would you think that? Name me one area the government performs better than if it was outsourced to the private sector.

It's actually possible to negotiate better deals than the gits on Team Obama without going full protectionist.

Posted by: JackStraw at June 28, 2016 03:07 PM (/tuJf)

342 Grammie,
There are certain thoughts that never cross the male mind.

"I feel fat" would be in the top two or three...

Posted by: Anon a mouse... at June 28, 2016 03:07 PM (C9pBZ)

343 MH asks a great question about the Orlando dance club jihadi attack. For three hours Omar the terrorist had free reign inside, and took advantage of that time to go around and finish off any wounded he could detect.

How can anyone justify a gun free zone there? At the very least there should have been access to arms for the security staff.

Posted by: MTF at June 28, 2016 03:08 PM (/m8T6)

344 You've never heard a "conservative" call for our troops ouster from Europe? Ever? I had a discussion/debate on this very blog not more than a couple weeks ago about the same topic.

Posted by: Lincolntf at June 28, 2016 03:08 PM (2cS/G)

345 "it'd be nice if you could copy and paste text here, without getting fatal errors."

Replace quotes and stuff in the copied text. The things in the copied text that look like quotes aren't considered quotes here. ASCII vs other character sets.

Posted by: Ok at June 28, 2016 03:08 PM (jN+3o)

346 Only true "elites" have grandly retarded ideas like this.


Oh I don't know. Germany has been fairly fond of taking over most of Europe for awhile now.

Posted by: alexthechick - I despair I despair at June 28, 2016 03:08 PM (mf5HN)

347 >>>269
We're tanned, rested and ready!
Posted by: Millions of Chinese Men without hope of spouses at June 28, 2016 02:53 PM (dQJCS)

____________

You're of no use to us. You can't reach the tank's pedals

Posted by: Swedish Weaponry - designed for 6'3 Average Height at June 28, 2016 03:08 PM (10hEu)

348 NATO is no longer of use to us.

The American Senate will no longer be of any concern to us. I have just
received word that Brussels has dissolved the council permanently.
The last remnants of the Old Europe have been swept away.

Posted by: Blanco Basura at June 28, 2016 03:08 PM (4WhSY)

349 ((((How do you bring the Chinese to heel? ))))

_________________

Actually, they are going to do it to themselves. You can't introduce a little democracy and capitalism into a society and then take it away on a whim. It causes turmoil, and eventually riots. It, also, explains why China just designated 600,000 new riot police in the last five years. That place is about to blow up internally, and there are a hell of a lot more down trodden unwashed then there are little red book readers. China is about to step into the same era we did back in the early Jimmy Hoffa days....only there will be more violence.

Posted by: Orson at June 28, 2016 03:08 PM (Y5Ygq)

350 What about those pointy rice paddy hats?

Posted by: wth at June 28, 2016 03:09 PM (HgMAr)

351 SH,
We're on the same page...

Posted by: Anon a mouse... at June 28, 2016 03:09 PM (C9pBZ)

352 We weren't just "defending" Germans with our bases, we were also containing them.

Posted by: Lincolntf at June 28, 2016 03:09 PM (2cS/G)

353 Explosion and gunshots reported at Istanbul airport.

Posted by: JackStraw at June 28, 2016 03:10 PM (/tuJf)

354 1.Muzzies swamp EU.
2. Eurocrats invite Putin in to help out.
3. Putin proclaimed emperor for life.

Because yerpeens love to be told what to do.

Posted by: Roland [OMITTED] at June 28, 2016 03:10 PM (QM5S2)

355 There are certain thoughts that never cross the male mind.



"I feel fat" would be in the top two or three...

Posted by: Anon a mouse... at June 28, 2016 03:07 PM (C9pBZ)
=============================================

Seriously? Well huh. I thought everybody fixated on how their pants fit each day. I guess I was wrong. (Being wrong is not new for me.)

Posted by: grammie winger, 2 Chronicles 7:14 at June 28, 2016 03:10 PM (dFi94)

356 You've never heard a "conservative" call for our troops ouster from Europe? Ever? I had a discussion/debate on this very blog not more than a couple weeks ago about the same topic.

------------

As much as I respect the horde, one commenter on this blog does generally not make what is considered standard conservative thought.

Posted by: SH at June 28, 2016 03:10 PM (gmeXX)

357 "I don't expect everyone to follow all of my opinions, but to be clear I hate Trump. I have hated Trump since I first heard of him when I moved to NYC in 1983."

He never loomed big enough in my life for me to care about him one way or another. Now that he is running for president I can evaluate him without my personal issues regarding him getting in my way.

Posted by: *Mikey NTH - Tent Sale at the Outrage Outlet! Sizzling Summer Savings on Slurs, Slams, and Slanders at June 28, 2016 03:10 PM (hLRSq)

358 >>>323
You'd have to admit the concept of drunken Russians fighting 3rd worlder jihadis for the scraps of Europe would make for a fun series of books.
Posted by: weft cut-loop at June 28, 2016 03:03 PM (p2X2f)

__________________

VIDEO GAME WITH AWESOME ACCENTS!!!

Posted by: TeamRawDog at June 28, 2016 03:10 PM (10hEu)

359 Actually, they are going to do it to themselves. You can't introduce a little democracy and capitalism into a society and then take it away on a whim. It causes turmoil, and eventually riots. It, also, explains why China just designated 600,000 new riot police in the last five years. That place is about to blow up internally, and there are a hell of a lot more down trodden unwashed then there are little red book readers. China is about to step into the same era we did back in the early Jimmy Hoffa days....only there will be more violence.
Posted by: Orson at June 28, 2016 03:08 PM (Y5Ygq)

Don't forget their demographic problems.

A ton of unattached males with no hope of getting married added to the mix. Always ends well.

Posted by: Aetius451AD at June 28, 2016 03:11 PM (3ZoRf)

360

Jack Straw

Tellike me

Specifically

Who will negotiate these "better deals" and how will the do it

Tarriffs are a tool and a threat

How

Would
you
Do
It

Posted by: ThunderB at June 28, 2016 03:11 PM (dbBTG)

361 Apparent terrorist attack at Attaturk airport in Turkey.

Posted by: Duke Lowell at June 28, 2016 03:11 PM (kTF2Z)

362 Explosion and gunshots reported at Istanbul airport.

Tuesday already?

Posted by: Blanco Basura at June 28, 2016 03:11 PM (4WhSY)

363 The latest example is the proposed "Crap Tax," which will be imposed on every home owner in Thurston County with an on-site septic system. A public hearing was scheduled at 5:30pm on June 14th, so that Thurston County Commissioners could pretend to listen to the public, but like most of their actions in the past, the crap tax is a cake already baked. They expect to feed it to the citizens of Thurston County next year. Commissioners and senior staff are already budgeting for the next fiscal year with the assumption this septic tax is in the books.

Posted by: Obama For-ks America at June 28, 2016 03:11 PM (e8kgV)

364 We weren't just "defending" Germans with our bases, we were also containing them.

-------------

Wasn't that the first part of NATO - to keep the Germans down?

Posted by: SH at June 28, 2016 03:11 PM (gmeXX)

365 If....Germany and France form the "Super Army", why would the US keep troops in Europe, they sound like they want to defend themselves.. I know NATO probably requires us to do what we are doing...but can you withdraw from NATO after all these years since WW2.

Posted by: Colin at June 28, 2016 03:11 PM (HQP2c)

366 Well, some of us can't be here 24/7...

(Gasp)

Posted by: Anon a mouse... at June 28, 2016 03:11 PM (C9pBZ)

367 261 He's negotiating. It's hard to recognize a tough negotiator because Republicans have so little experience with it
Posted by: ThunderB at June 28, 2016 02:51 PM (dbBTG)


Heh.

Posted by: rickl at June 28, 2016 03:12 PM (zoehZ)

368 Back when I wasn't so stressed out I could actually eat I did feel a bit squidgy at times.

Posted by: eleven at June 28, 2016 03:12 PM (Z+McQ)

369 "I don't expect everyone to follow all of my opinions, but to be clear I hate Trump. I have hated Trump since I first heard of him when I moved to NYC in 1983."

He never loomed big enough in my life for me to care about him one way or another. Now that he is running for president I can evaluate him without my personal issues regarding him getting in my way.

------------

Ironically, I have always liked Trump personally. And still do. I just don't want him as the President.

Posted by: SH at June 28, 2016 03:12 PM (gmeXX)

370 It's not one commenter, it's a theme/meme that runs through the Right. "How can you claim to want to limit Government spending when you are advocating billions for our Military to be in Europe!?!".

Posted by: Lincolntf at June 28, 2016 03:12 PM (2cS/G)

371 Apparent terrorist attack at Attaturk airport in Turkey.

Posted by: Duke Lowell at June 28, 2016 03:11 PM (kTF2Z)
==========================================

Ahh geez here we go

Posted by: grammie winger, 2 Chronicles 7:14 at June 28, 2016 03:12 PM (dFi94)

372 Trump is an unpredictable joke and Hillary is an evil scrunt.

Buy more prep.

Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck at June 28, 2016 03:12 PM (nFitA)

373 >>>337 We still have mutual defense treaties with most European countries, and they still have little mousefart military's. Because why would they build a military while we can keep spending on their defense?

Losing the forward bases didn't do anything to change that dynamic.
Posted by: Chupacabra at June 28, 2016 03:06 PM (F26eZ)

___________________

You think I'm gonna support our....allies?

BWAHAHAHA

Posted by: Obama at June 28, 2016 03:12 PM (10hEu)

374 Al-Qaeda to Jihadis: Target White People So American Liberals Don't Get Confused

Posted by: The Plague at June 28, 2016 03:12 PM (e8kgV)

375 361 Apparent terrorist attack at Attaturk airport in Turkey.
Posted by: Duke Lowell at June 28, 2016 03:11 PM (kTF2Z)

Damn Lutherans!

Posted by: Aetius451AD at June 28, 2016 03:13 PM (3ZoRf)

376 As much as I respect the horde, one commenter on this blog does generally not make what is considered standard conservative thought.

Posted by: SH at June 28, 2016 03:10 PM (gmeXX)


The Horde isn't representative of anything but the Horde.

That and a subset of the clinically depressed but not suicidal cranky old geezer demographic.

Posted by: *Mikey NTH - Tent Sale at the Outrage Outlet! Sizzling Summer Savings on Slurs, Slams, and Slanders at June 28, 2016 03:13 PM (hLRSq)

377 Heh.

You said "respect the horde"

That's funny right there.

Posted by: Anon a mouse... at June 28, 2016 03:13 PM (C9pBZ)

378 Orson


Your big plan is to wait and do nothing.


Ok. Seems unproductive in the last 30 years

Posted by: ThunderB at June 28, 2016 03:13 PM (dbBTG)

379
365 If....Germany and France form the "Super Army", why would the US keep troops in Europe, they sound like they want to defend themselves.. I know NATO probably requires us to do what we are doing...but can you withdraw from NATO after all these years since WW2.


Posted by: Colin at June 28, 2016 03:11 PM (HQP2c)


They are now part of the EU... most of the countries no longer have sovereign rights... so the countries we signed with no longer exist.

And the EU is not part of NATO, even though it IS already constituting its own Army.

Posted by: Don Q, at June 28, 2016 03:14 PM (qf6WZ)

380 Ironically, I have always liked Trump personally. And still do. I just don't want him as the President.

Neither do I, but I don't want Hillary more.

Posted by: Blanco Basura at June 28, 2016 03:14 PM (4WhSY)

381 Apparent terrorist attack at Attaturk airport in Turkey.

Posted by: Duke Lowell at June 28, 2016 03:11 PM (kTF2Z)
_______________________________________


Tic, Tock

Tic, Tock

Tic.....

Posted by: IP at June 28, 2016 03:14 PM (Fol9S)

382 It's not one commenter, it's a theme/meme that runs through the Right. "How can you claim to want to limit Government spending when you are advocating billions for our Military to be in Europe!?!".

------------

That sounds more like a leftist critique. Regardless, I have not come upon that argument - certainly not among many conservatives. I'm sure there are a few here and there, but it is a fringe position among conservatives at best. At least for now. Enjoy.

Posted by: SH at June 28, 2016 03:14 PM (gmeXX)

383 "Lose control over their borders"

That's one big reason for other countries to pull out of the EU ASAP. No control over their own borders?!! Insane."

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at June 28, 2016 03:14 PM (frf5f)

384 That and a subset of the clinically depressed but not suicidal cranky old geezer demographic.
-----------------------------------------

Fat needs to be in there somewhere.

Posted by: Jan Ne Onhert at June 28, 2016 03:14 PM (qNlse)

385 ...call for our troops ouster from Europe?...

So you think it no debate on whether 30K+ US troops should be in Europe?

Shouldn't those troops be in the US protecting our children from UN peacekeepers that are bring brought into the US secretly?

I have never heard that UN peacekeepers did anything but trade food for access to rape children. I think there was one report: "U.N. should take responsibility for Haiti's deadly cholera epidemic."

Posted by: Ok at June 28, 2016 03:15 PM (rnH8X)

386 Terrorist attack at Attaturk? Oh, the ME version of Attaboy.

Posted by: wth at June 28, 2016 03:15 PM (HgMAr)

387 I think there used to be more libertarians on here, too, so you'd get some more of those mixed views on this stuff.

Personally? I would have been for keeping the bases and replace NATO with something into a more realistic arrangement. Having a mutual defense pact with a country that doesn't have a real military is just a bad deal.

Posted by: Chupacabra at June 28, 2016 03:15 PM (F26eZ)

388 Posted by: SH at June 28, 2016 03:12 PM (gmeXX)

What do you like about Trump as a person? Serious question.

Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck at June 28, 2016 03:15 PM (nFitA)

389 Some good fights here today with one big difference...I am not involved in them today. Well yet anyway

Posted by: Nevergiveup at June 28, 2016 03:15 PM (zp+j1)

390 That and a subset of the clinically depressed but not suicidal cranky old geezer demographic.

------------

I knew I was among like minded people.

Posted by: SH at June 28, 2016 03:15 PM (gmeXX)

391 So the US elite have decreed that if you operate a factory in the US and sell its products into the US market it is immoral for you not to pay a statutory minimum wage to employees and provide other benefits and comply with a mind-boggling array of costly safety, environmental and labor requirements, in fact so immoral that if you persistently fail to comply with these requirements, guys in uniforms with guns will come and arrest you.

But if you pack up and move that same factory to Mexico or China you can sell your same products into the same US market but it's okay to pay your employees a dollar a day and no worries about environmental, safety or other laws. Not immoral at all, say the US elites, nothing wrong with this and it certainly should not be illegal. And the unemployed US workers (or newly-employed burger-flippers)? Why it's their own fault, really.

Posted by: Makes perfect sense! at June 28, 2016 03:15 PM (k9m+Y)

392 >>>376 As much as I respect the horde, one commenter on this blog does generally not make what is considered standard conservative thought.

Posted by: SH at June 28, 2016 03:10 PM (gmeXX)


The Horde isn't representative of anything but the Horde.

That and a subset of the clinically depressed but not suicidal cranky old geezer demographic.
Posted by: *Mikey NTH - Tent Sale at the Outrage Outlet! Sizzling Summer Savings on Slurs, Slams, and Slanders at June 28, 2016 03:13 PM (hLRSq)

______________

How old are you people???

Posted by: TeamRawDog at June 28, 2016 03:15 PM (10hEu)

393 "Pants" grammie?

Seems we've identified the real problem.

Heh.

Posted by: Anon a mouse... at June 28, 2016 03:15 PM (C9pBZ)

394

The answers are

Do nothing. Or

Hope some non governmental being can magic up Chinese cooperation



Well. Ok

Posted by: ThunderB at June 28, 2016 03:16 PM (dbBTG)

395 New Post Is Up

Posted by: Guy who says new post is up at June 28, 2016 03:16 PM (10hEu)

396 What do you like about Trump as a person? Serious question.
Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck at June 28, 2016 03:15 PM (nFitA)

You a personal friend of his? Go out to dinner with him a lot?

Posted by: Nevergiveup at June 28, 2016 03:16 PM (zp+j1)

397 John Schindler had some words to say a few months ago on the astronomical arrogance of European elites. The German ones especially so.

Berlin in particular does not seem to appreciate the Poles having perfectly valid historical reasons for not wanting to submit to Berlin's orders.

Posted by: torquewrench at June 28, 2016 03:16 PM (noWW6)

398 370 It's not one commenter, it's a theme/meme that runs through the Right. "How can you claim to want to limit Government spending when you are advocating billions for our Military to be in Europe!?!".
Posted by: Lincolntf at June 28, 2016 03:12 PM (2cS/G)

There could be some who do not like military spending (usually as a function of the giant federal shopping spree) but very few would argue against military spending as a whole. It is one of the few things the constitution actually says needs to be done.

Plus, there is always a bearsh isolationaism that has a tendency to run through conservative thought.

Leave us Alone.

*poke*

Leave us alone, we mean it!

*poke*

RIGHT!

(then we become internationalists again)

Posted by: Aetius451AD at June 28, 2016 03:17 PM (3ZoRf)

399 >>> Posted by: Anon a mouse... at June 28, 2016 03:15 PM (C9pBZ)


But, its nice to know that one of us has pants on...

Posted by: IP at June 28, 2016 03:17 PM (Fol9S)

400 I thought Poland closed its borders and refused to take in refugees.

Posted by: Bruce With a Wang! at June 28, 2016 03:17 PM (iQIUe)

401 So are they calling this "Anschluss II" or what?

Posted by: Texas Zombie at June 28, 2016 03:17 PM (SUtNI)

402 >>Jack Straw

Tellike me

Specifically

Who will negotiate these "better deals" and how will the do it

Tarriffs are a tool and a threat

How

Would
you
Do
>>It

No. I'm not going to get into a hypothetical about every facet of your trade policy with China. But it is moronic (bad kind) to assume that because Obama has negotiated bad deals and not enforced the ones in place that nobody could negotiate or enforce better deals with them.

Obama rolls over on his back and pees a little every time China or Russia farts. He's a weak pussy.

But much like our immigration laws we have tons of laws on the books that are never enforced. For example, in my old company we made a product that was overseen by the ATF, the DOT and a couple other alphabet agencies. We had a direct competitor who made their product in Indonesia and they shipped them throughout the US in plain brown cartons with 0 oversight.

That is an example of our weak trade law enforcement and it happens in thousands of cases every day in a myriad of industries.

Going full protectionist makes no more sense than going full socialist. Both have been tried repeatedly and always fail.

Posted by: JackStraw at June 28, 2016 03:17 PM (/tuJf)

403 Seriously? Well huh. I thought everybody fixated on how their pants fit each day. I guess I was wrong. (Being wrong is not new for me.)
Posted by: grammie winger, 2 Chronicles 7:14 at June 28, 2016 03:10 PM (dFi94)



Here. I'll take all of your cake.

No, no, no, don't thank me. It's noble of me, really.

Posted by: alexthechick - I despair I despair at June 28, 2016 03:17 PM (mf5HN)

404 336---Well, if you are opposed to "everything" he stands for, you're on Team Hillary, then. Fair enough.
Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at June 28, 2016 03:06 PM
-------------------------------
Not necessarily!
If X and Y are in no way opposites, one could be 100% opposed to both X and Y.
I am simultaneously 100% opposed to the designated-hitter rule and 100% opposed to pineapple on pizza.

Posted by: Margarita DeVille at June 28, 2016 03:18 PM (T/5A0)

405 Posted by: SH at June 28, 2016 03:12 PM (gmeXX)

What do you like about Trump as a person? Serious question.

------------

I have always found him entertaining and funny. I liked the Apprentice, the first season anyway. I've always just enjoyed people in the spotlight who were pompous in the way he is. Partly why I don't want him to President. Even now, I find him entertaining even when I disagree with him. Until this election, he was just a self-obsessed blow hart - I kind of liked him like that.

Posted by: SH at June 28, 2016 03:18 PM (gmeXX)

406 How old are you people???

I'm not as old as Vic.

Posted by: Blanco Basura at June 28, 2016 03:18 PM (4WhSY)

407 389 Some good fights here today with one big difference...I am not involved in them today. Well yet anyway
Posted by: Nevergiveup at June 28, 2016 03:15 PM (zp+j1)

We believe in you!

Posted by: Aetius451AD at June 28, 2016 03:18 PM (3ZoRf)

408 "Pants" grammie?



Seems we've identified the real problem.

========================================


Heh. The only reason my pants are still on is I have to go to a T ball game in a while. Taking them off and putting them back on sounds too much like work.

Posted by: grammie winger, 2 Chronicles 7:14 at June 28, 2016 03:18 PM (dFi94)

409
No soup army for you!!

Posted by: Nazi Nazi at June 28, 2016 03:19 PM (ODxAs)

410 I saw Grandly Retarded open for the Dead Milkman at Valdu Lakes in 92

Posted by: A dude in MI at June 28, 2016 03:19 PM (0LQ4f)

411 Drudge earlier:"UN military vehicles seen rolling down Virginia interstate"

Posted by: Ok at June 28, 2016 03:19 PM (jN+3o)

412

So Jack. You have no answers. You are the critic in the stands who criticizes the doer

You have no idea how to address the Chinese.

Posted by: ThunderB at June 28, 2016 03:19 PM (dbBTG)

413 Who's shooting whom? Is there room in the circle for another Shooter? What are the ROE's of this new circular firing squad?

Posted by: Tim in Illinois. at June 28, 2016 03:19 PM (WVsWD)

414 400 I thought Poland closed its borders and refused to take in refugees.
Posted by: Bruce With a Wang! at June 28, 2016 03:17 PM (iQIUe)

Thought that was Hungary. Did Poland do it as well?

Posted by: Aetius451AD at June 28, 2016 03:19 PM (3ZoRf)

415 ...call for our troops ouster from Europe?...

So you think it no debate on whether 30K+ US troops should be in Europe?

----------

I don't think it shouldn't be debated. Just that calling for removal is not really a shared position held by many conservatives. At least not conservative "leaders." Perhaps among the conservative base it would be more accepted.

Posted by: SH at June 28, 2016 03:19 PM (gmeXX)

416 Posted by: alexthechick - I despair I despair at June 28, 2016 03:17 PM (mf5HN)
===========================================


I would gladly share my cake with you, alex, if I had cake. I have some Fruit Roll-ups and a bag of Dum-Dums. That's the extent of my sweets. I do have a drawerful of cheese, however.


Posted by: grammie winger, 2 Chronicles 7:14 at June 28, 2016 03:21 PM (dFi94)

417 A typical example of EU overbearing is the recently-announced ban on "high-powered" electric kettles. I finally found an article that admitted that the ban doesn't save any energy at all, since boiling a given amount of water takes the same amount of total energy no matter what power level you use. The objective, instead, was to make the kettle boil slower so that the user is annoyed enough at the delay that he simply stops using it.

Get it? The EU is mandating the manufacture of useless appliances in order to force social and behavioral change. Yeah, that's really going to make Europe more competitive in the global marketplace.

Posted by: Socratease at June 28, 2016 03:22 PM (FqHs5)

418 So Jack. You have no answers. You are the critic in the stands who criticizes the doer

You have no idea how to address the Chinese.

------------

Let me propose this. First, I would strengthen our military presence over there. Second, regards to economics, what if we eliminated all tariffs on importing goods from China. Why would that be a bad thing. If China wants to use cheap goods to make cheap products that Americans wish to buy - so be it.

Posted by: SH at June 28, 2016 03:22 PM (gmeXX)

419 Whats the population of the pEU? Something like 550 million? If they can't find 3 million or so people to defend their own damn land, I don't see why we should.

Posted by: Tim in Illinois. at June 28, 2016 03:22 PM (WVsWD)

420

So the advice is wait for someone to magically appear who will do better with the Chinese. Some plan

Posted by: ThunderB at June 28, 2016 03:23 PM (dbBTG)

421 304 This ain't a real estate deal. Politicians and leaders of other
countries will cut off their nose to spite their face if they are
insulted and bullied for all to see. Trump needs to continue with a
tough persona but needs to temper his rhetoric if he wants future
cooperation. If that's not his goal then fine, continue with the shoot
from the hip style.

Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck at June 28, 2016 02:59 PM (nFitA)



Gotta disagree across the board.

1. Everything is a real estate deal at some level: a negotiation to effect an exchange of value. Exactly what items of value are being exchanged is a secondary detail.

2. Politicians who are butt-hurt inflict damage on themselves and their personal prospects. A good way to avoid getting butt-hurt is to get out in front of the issue. See Cameron, David.

3. Tempering his rhetoric is exactly what Trump should NOT do. To negotiate effectively, the other side has to have something potentially to lose. He's making clear that that is the case. Now the other side has an incentive to cooperate, and its leader have an incentive to avoid #2.


Whom would you want representing you in, say, a house or car purchase: Trump or McCain?

Posted by: Hillary Clinton at June 28, 2016 03:23 PM (oKE6c)

422 "I feel fat" would be in the top two or three...

Posted by: Anon a mouse... at June 28, 2016 03:07 PM (C9pBZ)

Well, i don't know about that. Spouse had to get something checked out at the walk in medical care place while we on vacation and he said. They weighed me."I've never weighed this much in my life!" He's not a big man and nobody would call him fat, but he does like ice cream and cookies."
So he obviously thought about it.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at June 28, 2016 03:24 PM (frf5f)

423 Sure is quiet in here

Posted by: ThunderB at June 28, 2016 03:24 PM (dbBTG)

424 >>>413 Who's shooting whom? Is there room in the circle for another Shooter? What are the ROE's of this new circular firing squad?
Posted by: Tim in Illinois. at June 28, 2016 03:19 PM (WVsWD)

______________

Aim & Shoot

Aiming optional

Posted by: TeamRawDog at June 28, 2016 03:24 PM (10hEu)

425 Whom would you want representing you in, say, a house or car purchase: Trump or McCain?

----------------

Myself. Why do I need either of them?

Posted by: SH at June 28, 2016 03:24 PM (gmeXX)

426 A ton of unattached males with no hope of getting married added to the mix. Always ends well.
Posted by: Aetius451AD at June 28, 2016 03:11 PM (3ZoRf)

We're so ronrey.

Posted by: Unmarried Chinese men at June 28, 2016 03:25 PM (7HtZB)

427 The problem is currency manipulation. Your big answer is do nothing

So. Status quo. Genius

Posted by: ThunderB at June 28, 2016 03:25 PM (dbBTG)

428 FWIW, it'd be easier to stomach if "mutual defense" of western Europe had at least a little "mutual" component...

Heh.

Posted by: Anon a mouse... at June 28, 2016 03:25 PM (C9pBZ)

429 Going full protectionist makes no more sense...Posted by: JackStraw at June 28, 2016 03:17 PM (/tuJf)

I think this is one of the more troubling aspects of Trump's pitch. Full protectionism is a siege you place against your own castle. I hear the "great deals/Chyyyna/winning" language, and I'm for Trump, but he'd probably be taken more seriously if he didn't seem to suggest that we were going to be paying (bigly) for U.S. union-made stuff by guys only a pink slip away from membership in the Free Shit Army.

In fact, unions are a species of the FSA genus.

Posted by: General Zod at June 28, 2016 03:26 PM (Bdeb0)

430 419 Whats the population of the pEU? Something like 550 million? If they can't find 3 million or so people to defend their own damn land, I don't see why we should.

Posted by: Tim in Illinois. at June 28, 2016 03:22 PM (WVsWD)

There are good strategic reasons not to: not allow an enemy to create an unassailable foothold should they overrun Europe, create a deterrent against invasion.

My point above is that our strategic goals and practices had an unintended cultural outcome.

It is not an easy answer one way or another.

Posted by: Aetius451AD at June 28, 2016 03:26 PM (3ZoRf)

431 422; Re, regarding the idea that men never think, I feel fat".

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at June 28, 2016 03:26 PM (frf5f)

432 30,000 troops at a minimum. I'd prefer 50 thousand. Europe is a big and complex place, with millennia of war experience. There are many "knowns" about fighting in Europe, and having your troops already there and in fighting shape is one of the known advantages.

Posted by: Lincolntf at June 28, 2016 03:26 PM (2cS/G)

433 The problem is currency manipulation. Your big answer is do nothing

So. Status quo. Genius

--------

First, I want to understand what you mean by currency manipulation. How is China manipulating the currency? Last I have seen, the dollar is rising quickly against all currencies. The soundest policy of all is having a currency backed by a country that will actually back it.

Posted by: SH at June 28, 2016 03:27 PM (gmeXX)

434 423 Sure is quiet in here
Posted by: ThunderB at June 28, 2016 03:24 PM (dbBTG)

There is a nood, TB.

Posted by: Aetius451AD at June 28, 2016 03:27 PM (3ZoRf)

435 What is this bullshit, I was promised rapey Tuesday.

Posted by: Tinfoilbaby at June 28, 2016 03:27 PM (6Ll1u)

436 Trump should reveal his negotiating strategy in a speech


Ok

Posted by: ThunderB at June 28, 2016 03:27 PM (dbBTG)

437 Myself. Why do I need either of them?

Posted by: SH at June 28, 2016 03:24 PM (gmeXX)

A mendacious answer, so how about this: which one would you rather negotiate against?

Posted by: Hillary Clinton at June 28, 2016 03:28 PM (oKE6c)

438 First, I want to understand what you mean by currency manipulation. How is China manipulating the currency? Last I have seen, the dollar is rising quickly against all currencies. The soundest policy of all is having a currency backed by a country that will actually back it.
Posted by: SH at June 28, 2016 03:27 PM (gmeXX)

They are keeping their currency devalued vs others so it will be cheaper to manufacture things there for outside companies.

Posted by: Aetius451AD at June 28, 2016 03:28 PM (3ZoRf)

439 "Could a ... just seize all of ... assets somehow?"

Asset forfeiture. Happens every day.

About to blow up because a task force seized a boatload but some of it didn't make it to the counting room.

Pennsylvania "special drug unit" decided to free lance on the sweet forfeiture racket. Trying to hide it. Jealousy and greed will out them. Google or Bing asset forfeiture. See how far our country has sunk.

Posted by: Ok at June 28, 2016 03:28 PM (jN+3o)

440 Of course the dollar is rising.


China artificially depresses their currency

Posted by: ThunderB at June 28, 2016 03:28 PM (dbBTG)

441 >>426 A ton of unattached males with no hope of getting married added to the mix.

INVEST IN SOCKS!!!

Posted by: Banana Splits Guy at June 28, 2016 03:29 PM (dSuDi)

442 437 Myself. Why do I need either of them?

Posted by: SH at June 28, 2016 03:24 PM (gmeXX)
A mendacious answer, so how about this: which one would you rather negotiate against?
Posted by: Hillary Clinton at June 28, 2016 03:28 PM (oKE6c)

Dude, Hillary is trying to pin you down. Huma is getting jealous.

Posted by: Aetius451AD at June 28, 2016 03:29 PM (3ZoRf)

443 Myself. Why do I need either of them?

Posted by: SH at June 28, 2016 03:24 PM (gmeXX)
A mendacious answer, so how about this: which one would you rather negotiate against?

-----------

Probably McCain, because he has something I would actually want - beer.

In all seriousness, why is it necessary for the government to negotiate business deals for private citizens?

Posted by: SH at June 28, 2016 03:30 PM (gmeXX)

444 Posted by: Hillary Clinton at June 28, 2016 03:23 PM (oKE6c)

I respect your opinion but I'm basing my opinion on my own experience as my job as negotiator in adversarial situations. I would not survive with the Trump style.

Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck at June 28, 2016 03:30 PM (nFitA)

445 t is not an easy answer one way or another.

Posted by: Aetius451AD at June 28, 2016 03:26 PM (3ZoRf)

Sure it is. Not enough dead American Soldiers buried over there already?

We can defend our on shores, maybe. I see no need to defend them when they won't defend themselves.

Posted by: Tim in Illinois. at June 28, 2016 03:30 PM (WVsWD)

446 #Johnson/Weld
Posted by: TheJamesMadison at June 28, 2016 02:57 PM


That sounds like a very painful medical condition.

Posted by: RedMindBlueState at June 28, 2016 03:30 PM (bzd8I)

447 They are keeping their currency devalued vs others so it will be cheaper to manufacture things there for outside companies.

---------------

Do you call that manipulation? I call that a country acting like a country. If they want to have a devalued currency - let them.

Posted by: SH at June 28, 2016 03:31 PM (gmeXX)

448 What is this bullshit, I was promised rapey Tuesday.

Posted by: Tinfoilbaby at June 28, 2016 03:27 PM


Well, the Europeans are about to get fcuked. Does that count?

Posted by: RedMindBlueState at June 28, 2016 03:32 PM (bzd8I)

449 "The soundest policy of all is having a currency backed by a country that will actually back it. "

Michael Pettis has proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that all a country has to do to run a trade surplus is buy bonds of a trading partner. The easiest bonds to buy are US bonds and that will do the trick.

Pettis has shown other ways countries can do this but bonds are the easiest to show.


Posted by: Ok at June 28, 2016 03:32 PM (jN+3o)

450 I would gladly share my cake with you, alex, if I had cake. I have some Fruit Roll-ups and a bag of Dum-Dums. That's the extent of my sweets. I do have a drawerful of cheese, however.


Posted by: grammie winger, 2 Chronicles 7:14 at June 28, 2016 03:21 PM (dFi94)



All of that is acceptable.

Posted by: alexthechick - I despair I despair at June 28, 2016 03:34 PM (mf5HN)

451 Mexico says it is time for the North American Union.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/mexico-president-urges-north-american-integration-brexit-200300558.html

Don't laugh a large portion of both political parties in congress are internationalists fo some kind or another. Why do you think so many support amnesty, and strange trade deals that knock down national sovereignty.

So a union with our two neighbors is just right up their lane. A union would be the perfect globalist solution to solve the immigration crisis they created on purpose. We are all "North Americans" they would say at a joint press conference all smug and such.

It explains a lot when you think about it. Why Paul Ryan is so gun-ho for immigration reform, why so many Republicans freak out at Trump over immigration and trade. He is messing up their plains for utopia!!!!!

Posted by: William Eaton at June 28, 2016 03:35 PM (KhJh8)

452 Sure it is. Not enough dead American Soldiers buried over there already?

We can defend our on shores, maybe. I see no need to defend them when they won't defend themselves.
Posted by: Tim in Illinois. at June 28, 2016 03:30 PM (WVsWD)

A fair point (and one I argued above.)

So you see no eventuality in which we would not need to project force in Europe, for any reason?

Posted by: Aetius451AD at June 28, 2016 03:35 PM (3ZoRf)

453 "Well, the Europeans are about to get fcuked. Does that count?"

They have already been done every day since the day they were born. The procedure is about to become more painful and may be done multiple times a day.

If the US survives with our freedoms retaken we will send them food.

Posted by: Ok at June 28, 2016 03:35 PM (jN+3o)

454 "So you see no eventuality in which we would not need to project force in Europe, for any reason? "

Missile shield and large supply of MIRV neutron armed ballistic missiles. Rods-of-god?

Posted by: Ok at June 28, 2016 03:37 PM (jN+3o)

455

No answers. No understanding. Criticize those who do.


Got it

Posted by: ThunderB at June 28, 2016 03:38 PM (HDS2u)

456 >>>>The problem is currency manipulation. Your big answer is do nothing



So. Status quo. Genius
.
.
.
.The US is the most guilty party when it comes to currency manipulation. QE I, II, II, infinity anyone?

Posted by: The Great White Scotsman at June 28, 2016 03:39 PM (iONHu)

457 No answers. No understanding. Criticize those who do.


Got it
Posted by: ThunderB at June 28, 2016 03:38 PM (HDS2u)

----------

I've given answers. I'm willing to discuss things with you. You may disagree with my answers, but you cannot say I have none.

Posted by: SH at June 28, 2016 03:40 PM (gmeXX)

458 "Mexico says it is time for the North American Union."

I think we should send some rough men and women (eg 1836 Texans) to settle Mexico and make it a decent place to live.

My solution is cheaper. :-)

Posted by: Ok at June 28, 2016 03:41 PM (rnH8X)

459 To the extent that something can or needs to be done about a country who devalues their currency ... my answer may be to do nothing and let them make themselves poorer.

Posted by: SH at June 28, 2016 03:41 PM (gmeXX)

460 Missile shield and large supply of MIRV neutron armed ballistic missiles. Rods-of-god?
Posted by: Ok at June 28, 2016 03:37 PM (jN+3o)

That is a strategy.

Actually it bother me we have not heard about missile defense. I would not be surprised if a president from the republicans got in office, and found that Obama had destroyed everything, including the plans, and sent all of the esigners to jail.

Posted by: Aetius451AD at June 28, 2016 03:42 PM (3ZoRf)

461 @191: "The fun part is that neo-aristocrats would have to convert in order to ride that tiger."

Not to worry, they've got their Shahadah recitations warmed up and ready to go.

Posted by: FaCubeItches at June 28, 2016 03:43 PM (rznWS)

462 What those Euro tards don't understand is we won't be coming back. For the Third time.

Posted by: Eye-Tie at June 28, 2016 03:43 PM (k9San)

463 What those Euro tards don't understand is we won't be coming back. For the Third time.

-------------

Yeah, I wouldn't bet on that (meaning we will be back). Heck we are going to be back for a third time in Iraq.

Posted by: SH at June 28, 2016 03:44 PM (gmeXX)

464 On the plus side, when the mask slips off, people can see what the real goals and agendas are, and are then able to make much more wise choices. Brexit may be the sunlight that turns the light fully on the cockroaches of Big State Government, by, for, and of the monied elites.

I give war not more than eight years before it breaks out for real in Europe.

Posted by: Rolf at June 28, 2016 03:44 PM (EChmJ)

465 Obama scrapped our missile defense agreements with Poland and Czech pretty much the first day he was in Office.

Posted by: Lincolntf at June 28, 2016 03:45 PM (2cS/G)

466 So you see no eventuality in which we would not need to project force in Europe, for any reason?

Posted by: Aetius451AD at June 28, 2016 03:35 PM (3ZoRf)

I would be willing to commit Troops and use force. As long as what ever territory we take, we keep. Immediate annexation into the U.S. with territorial status plus taxation paid to the federal goober'mint.

Any and all resources will be used to pay for the "adventure" before one single pfennig is paid out out for any thing else.

Posted by: Tim in Illinois. at June 28, 2016 03:47 PM (WVsWD)

467 SH lower currency does not make a country poorer. It increases trade. That's why they do it

Posted by: ThunderB at June 28, 2016 03:47 PM (upeBX)

468 Why bother "taking and keeping" territory if we're just going to give it back a generation or two later? Like we just did. We fought for it, took it, had it, and then we ran away like little bitches. We don't need to Territorialize entire nations, we just need sound strategic placement of our forces.

Posted by: Lincolntf at June 28, 2016 03:50 PM (2cS/G)

469 "the direction of a Marine officer who should have refused to sanction this action"

THIS

Those on the line need to do their duty. Defend the Constitution. Ignore and/or arrest corrupt politicians.


Posted by: Grad School Fool at June 28, 2016 03:50 PM (swEzU)

470 SH lower currency does not make a country poorer. It increases trade. That's why they do it

--------------

Increasing trade to what end? Does that mean selling more exports or buying more imports. You seem to think that lowering currency in and of itself benefits the country lowering the currency. If so, then every country should just devalue their currency.

Posted by: SH at June 28, 2016 03:50 PM (gmeXX)

471 We don't need to Territorialize entire nations, we just need sound strategic placement of our forces.

----------

Like Iraq? You are singing my tune.

Posted by: SH at June 28, 2016 03:51 PM (gmeXX)

472 You think our tent camps and occupied hotels in Iraq at all equate to our established European bases? Apples and olives.

Posted by: Lincolntf at June 28, 2016 03:53 PM (2cS/G)

473 Selling

I can't be your macro economics class

Posted by: ThunderB at June 28, 2016 03:54 PM (upeBX)

474 Trade and big wealthy American corporations are great things, unless:

1. That "trade" is being used as a method to destroy American sovereignty.

2. Those big wealthy corporations based in this country no longer put their first loyalty to America, but pledge their loyalty to internationalism.

This in turn leads to...

Americans losing their liberties, constitution, etc. Most of the world does not believe in the freedoms we have, especially the first and second amendment.

So you can see why so many of us "conservatives", in my case "former conservative" are against more free trade, and have turned against certain big wealthy American corporations.

I will always put liberty before a good economy, or money, or trade, as William Pitt said in 1775 that Americans prefer liberty over "gilded chains and sordid affluence".




Posted by: William Eaton at June 28, 2016 03:55 PM (KhJh8)

475 You think our tent camps and occupied hotels in Iraq at all equate to our established European bases? Apples and olives.

----------

I think in general when we fight wars that cost blood and money, especially if it is our second go around, we should probably establish an outpost or two and stay a while.

Posted by: SH at June 28, 2016 03:55 PM (gmeXX)

476 That was bitchy. I'm sorry

Posted by: ThunderB at June 28, 2016 03:59 PM (upeBX)

477 it's not a conspiracy theory: the Left overtly craves "one-world government."

And considering the breathtaking comments from the Left after the Brexit vote, they also aren't too keen on "democracy" either, and want that one-world government to be rule by unelected bureaucrats.

The problem is that they've decided that an Islamic Caliphate is the quickest path to one-world government.

Posted by: Hikaru at June 28, 2016 04:00 PM (XMDuf)

478


Gah! Just when I try to reconcile myself to Not-Hillary he goes full bore against everything I believe in.

Posted by: Bandersnatch at June 28, 2016 02:26 PM (1xUj/)


Every. Stinking. Time.

Posted by: redbanzai at June 28, 2016 04:01 PM (3JA/M)

479 That was bitchy. I'm sorry
Posted by: ThunderB at June 28, 2016 03:59 PM (upeBX)

-------------

No worry. So China sells more goods. Why should that bother us? We get to buy cheap goods at cheaper prices? I fail to understand why that is a bad thing from a macro perspective. I get it from a micro perspective.

Posted by: SH at June 28, 2016 04:03 PM (gmeXX)

480 Well, looks like they might end up in a war after all. I thought Europe had grown up after WWII. Guess not.

Posted by: PJ at June 28, 2016 05:14 PM (cHuNI)

481 261 He's negotiating. It's hard to recognize a tough negotiator because Republicans have so little experience with it
Posted by: ThunderB at June 28, 2016 02:51 PM (dbBTG)

Jep.thats why trump doesnt spook or confuse me i hear him as a blustery opener in negotiations. Have any of you people bought a car? Do you just pay sticker price?

My concern w trump is that he will compromise to make a deal. In fairness to Trump i did just get out of bad decades long relationship wiith dc republicans where compromise was a code word for letting the left butt fudge me. Trump does seem to genuinely want to see america prosperous and strong.

Posted by: Shiggz at June 28, 2016 05:49 PM (MszXz)

482 So whats the alternative stay in europe for ever and keep them dependent on our military welfare so they can keep giving all their money to their socialist bi boyfrined whose cheating with self hating gay muzzi$?

Posted by: Shiggz at June 28, 2016 05:54 PM (MszXz)

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