Upper Middle Class Exodus from GOP Begins

Shades of Andrew Sullivan.

With Jay Nordlinger, a guy who writes mental doodles, essentially tweets puckishly, then puts those tweets together into a kind of Blog About Nothing.

I'll take this as a kind of temporary provisional vindication -- we'll see if, per my prediction, this continues.

This isn't a wholesale attack on these people. They were always the most likely to flip liberal, as they share the most assumptions of what the "Good Life" consists of with liberals, and count far more liberals in their circle of micro-culture-making close relations than the average Republican.

There's a reason, after all, while the once GOP stalwart upper middle class counties around Philadelphia have been very, very liberal and Democratic for 15 years.

It's also a note to the Trump people, who pushed Trump, despite my repeated warnings that if you do this, you will lose this quarter of the party. I don't know how many times I cautioned that social status is incredibly important to people, and few will voluntarily undertake any action which results in a loss of social status.

Trump is unsophisticated and crude, and he pitches his appeal to the unsophisticated and crude. That doesn't mean you're necessarily unsophisticated and crude if you support him -- Scott Adams, for example, is perpetually finding sophisticated and finely-made machinations in Trump's unsophisticated and crude surface presentation -- but that is definitely the tone of Trump's appeal.

And people who consider themselves sophisticated -- people for whom a sense of sophistication is important to their self-evaluation -- aren't going to buy into this bozo.

The GOP is fracturing, alas, on class lines, permanently and irrevocably.

Neither side feels like much like compromising. Trump, of course, could not compromise and speak (and think!) in a more sophisticated fashion, because he doesn't know how.

This is going to be an extremely painful and emotional disaster -- worse than it is now, as the actual divorce comes.

We're right now in the constantly-finding-fault-and-denigrating-and-putting-down phase of the rapidly dissolving marriage. Seems awful, yes: But it will seem like "The Good Times" when the actual divorce comes.

At This Point... I'd bless the GOP just ignoring the voters and installing their own candidate as some kind of last-ditch attempt to keep the party intact with a compromise candidate of broad appeal.

But their are no compromise candidates of broad appeal.

If the GOP attempted to take Trump out, they'd do what they have long desired to do, just stick in a Comprehensive Amnesty Piece of Shit candidate over the protests of the voters.

Even if it were Mitt Romney -- a guy I've long liked and admired -- I couldn't get behind them just sticking in Mitt Romney. Because I know which version of Ideologically Flexible Mitt we'd get. We'd get the Pro-Amnesty Version that the Capital Class dreams of.

This is going to be a disaster. I think maybe it's the wisest, best course to not get too hung up on horserace/story of the day crap, and maybe start focusing on long-term positioning and hashing out actual philosophy -- what we'd like a party, optimally, to be.

This election is lost.

We can argue about who lost it -- indeed, most of the passive-aggressive kneecapping from the more liberal-leaning, Rubio-supporting Upper Middle Class is about arguing, in a cowardly fashion, who lost it -- and I imagine we will be arguing about that for quite a while.

Might as well stop being passive-aggressive about it and just come right out and say it. There is no party unity to pretend to be a part of any longer.

But more important than whose fault this is is what we'd actually like in a vehicle for ideological aspiration.

One thing I'd just love is if so-called conservatives weren't as joyously SJW in pushing politically correct speech codes on everyone.

I'd like to see that.

You know, you don't have to go full SJW to prove you're not Alt-Right, right? You can strike a more nuanced position than the liberal extreme.

I could feel this coming for a while, but it really crystallized last week, when Trump supporters were openly attacked in the street and the agents of the state permitted it, and conservative reaction was... muted to openly supportive of the attacks.

When you're that far gone emotionally -- when you can't even rouse a bit of fellow-feeling for people being attacked on the streets -- you have checked out of any kind of "relationship," be it personal or political.

People are still making excuses as to why they are talking nonstop about Trump's Judge and can't even talk about San Jose between breaths.

But they don't need to make excuses, really. The reality is clear enough: they just don't feel emotionally connected to the base of the party any longer.

Emotion is where all thought begins its life. And there's just none of it from the "elite" (and I use that word advisedly) of the party for the base anymore.

The hatred is palpable.

Posted by: Ace at 12:16 PM

Comments

(Jump to bottom of comments)

1 Bullshit

Posted by: nip at June 07, 2016 12:18 PM (r73Jl)

2 4/10, sidebar one is much better.

Posted by: hogmartin at June 07, 2016 12:19 PM (BVSyW)

3 Post so good, it's in the side-bar also.

No velvet divorce is in the offering it seems.

Posted by: Anna Puma at June 07, 2016 12:20 PM (RbRGC)

4 Good. The GOP and GOPe must die. Not salvageable.

Posted by: Count de Monet at June 07, 2016 12:20 PM (JO9+V)

5 It's a necessary thing.

Posted by: steevy at June 07, 2016 12:21 PM (B48dK)

6 The headlines are bleeding into the posts.....

Posted by: cthulhu at June 07, 2016 12:21 PM (EzgxV)

7 I sentence Ace of Ace of Spades HQ to become Mr Nordlinger's butler for the course of one season if the pilot works out.

Next case, amigo!

Posted by: judge gonzalo curiel at June 07, 2016 12:21 PM (PLnZs)

8 Our side has been "compromising" for years... Screw em... GTFO... and don't let the door hit you in the ass... Go vote for Hillary, traitors...

Posted by: I Smell Something Rotten at June 07, 2016 12:21 PM (ctO3Z)

9 They were always the most likely to flip liberal

I haven't read the piece yet, but I don't see how ditching the GOP in 2016 = flipping liberal.

Posted by: AD at June 07, 2016 12:21 PM (Q+fXS)

10 It's a populist uprising on both sides.
Of course it is breaking across class lines.

Posted by: @votermom at June 07, 2016 12:21 PM (7lVbc)

11 Well, the Republican party failed miserably and completely in delivering stuff that cuts across class, ethnic, and religious boundaries -- a healthy economy. You can blame anyone else you want, but the Repubs held the Presidency and Congress for 6 years. I don't recall Bush ever raising Cain about the impending housing crisis. I don't recall the Repubs stopping Monopoly money press. I do recall the Repub Congress engaging in all kinds of graft, corruption, and buying local votes. So what's the purpose of the Repub party other than to rail on certain social issues (and then be caught hypocrisising)?

Posted by: SFGoth at June 07, 2016 12:21 PM (dZ756)

12 >>That doesn't mean you're necessarily unsophisticated and crude if you support him -- Scott Adams, for example, is perpetually finding sophisticated and finely-made machinations in Trump's unsophisticated and crude surface presentation -- but that is definitely the tone of Trump's appeal.

Scott Adams has also announced that he is supporting Hillary so he's out too.

Posted by: JackStraw at June 07, 2016 12:21 PM (/tuJf)

13 Does it really matter though? If Mitch McConnell and Paul Ryan became Democrats tomorrow, would anyone's life change at all?

Posted by: Monsieur Moo Moo at June 07, 2016 12:21 PM (0LHZx)

14 >>more sophisticatedly

I'm gonna Challenge.

Posted by: garrett at June 07, 2016 12:22 PM (I8Bd1)

15 Alternate headline: The NPR Crowd Stops Pretending to be Conservative.

Posted by: cthulhu at June 07, 2016 12:22 PM (EzgxV)

16 The peasants are revolting!

Posted by: Count de Monet at June 07, 2016 12:23 PM (JO9+V)

17 If you're just now leaving the GOP you're retarded.

Posted by: Dr Spank at June 07, 2016 12:23 PM (TJCSB)

18 Scott Adams has also announced that he is supporting Hillary so he's out too.
Posted by: JackStraw at June 07, 2016 12:21 PM (/tuJf)

His support was really, really tongue-in-cheek, though.

Posted by: AD at June 07, 2016 12:23 PM (Q+fXS)

19
Scott Adams has also announced that he is supporting Hillary so he's out too.
Posted by: JackStraw at June 07, 2016 12:21 PM (/tuJf)

It was tongue in cheek. He said Trump will probably win and if he does, all high profile supporters will be targets of the Clinton lynch mob, so he's officially (wink wink) endorsing Clinton.

Posted by: @votermom at June 07, 2016 12:23 PM (7lVbc)

20 Excuse me, my good man. Do you have any Grey Poupon?

Posted by: Fritz at June 07, 2016 12:24 PM (UzPAd)

21 I started reading Nordlinger's piece, then scanned it and finally quit. He's all about his disgust with Trump. pffft. I'm all about the GOPe providing Obama all he wanted and more spending wise and accommodating his open borders crap.

The repubs definitely left me well before I knew it but I've accepted it. Weak assed NE liberals running the party just don't appeal to me.

Posted by: DanMan at June 07, 2016 12:24 PM (RusNE)

22
1. They were all useless Shits, anyway.
2. Most were already secret supporters of the Fascist Left.
3. It's not Trump who needs to change, it's them.

Posted by: Misheard Lyrics Guy at June 07, 2016 12:24 PM (yG7Ca)

23 Rush predicted a Trump landslide...

I've always appreciated his political savvy through the years, but he may want a mulligan on that prediction.

Posted by: McCool at June 07, 2016 12:24 PM (TQxRy)

24 Didn't the same shit happen in 1980? All the blue blood GOP types despised Reagan. Fuck all them.

Posted by: Monsieur Moo Moo at June 07, 2016 12:25 PM (0LHZx)

25 Jay Nordlinger is the living definition of "twee." Like Ray Jay Johnson, his schtick was funny for about five minutes.

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at June 07, 2016 12:25 PM (X6fMO)

26 I'd quibble with the assertion that a lot of these people don't advocate positions that would lose them status. There are only so many spots at the top of a socialist/communist/whatever-ist hegemony. There are quite a few more adherents than there are seats at the table. When the music stops, a lot of them are going to be on the outside looking in.

Posted by: Wahshiya at June 07, 2016 12:25 PM (W71yu)

27 The mask is off of the GOP, and we'ver seen their true, ugly face.

Posted by: Timo at June 07, 2016 12:25 PM (hy43O)

28 >>His support was really, really tongue-in-cheek, though

Probably but we shall see. A lot of time between now and November for Trump to say stupid shit. I expect there will be quite a few public defections such as Nordingler (who by the way says he will not vote for either Trump or Hillary).

Posted by: JackStraw at June 07, 2016 12:26 PM (/tuJf)

29 Ace I think don't think you should jump to conclusions every time Trump says something stupid or unfiltered and draw premature conclusions from it. You may be correct, but it is way to early to tell.

And many of us are "supporting" Trump now, who were not before, for the simple reason that the alternative at this point is worse.

Yeah it's a shitty situation, but one that can only be made worse by jumping to conclusions and reacting to every bump in the road like it is an earthquake.

But hey that is only me

Posted by: Nevergiveup at June 07, 2016 12:26 PM (zp+j1)

30 Wasn't this the same guy who said upstate NY towns should just wither and die? Or am I thinking of a different NRO jackoff.

Posted by: Monsieur Moo Moo at June 07, 2016 12:26 PM (0LHZx)

31 They really REALLY want to keep getting invited to the right cocktail parties.

Posted by: Insomniac at June 07, 2016 12:26 PM (DMWVF)

32 What the GOP loses because of Trump, the GOP gains from the disgruntled democrates/independents

Seems like a fair trade. Purge the GOP of the liberal backstabbers and gain a loyal blue collar middle class democrat.

Posted by: Wu Chu, King of Chu at June 07, 2016 12:26 PM (mT20P)

33 You know what they say: as Nordlinger goes, so goes a small part of Manhattan.

I'm honestly not that bothered by losing the people whose writing is indistinguishable from the @DemsRRealRacist parody twitter account. They have been losing non-stop for years without even bothering to put up a counter offensive. They have reserved all of their most effective vitriol for attacks to the right. Better that those attacks should come from an avowed enemy than from somebody allegedly fighting under the same banner.

I don't care how many credentials somebody has. If at the end of the day they're more likely to shoot at me than my enemy then I don't want them on my side.

Posted by: Jake (not officially a regular) at June 07, 2016 12:26 PM (1BdMd)

34
Posted by: JackStraw at June 07, 2016 12:21 PM (/tuJf)

============

It' s a freakin' joke:

"So I've decided to endorse Hillary Clinton for President, for my personal safety. Trump supporters dont have any bad feelings about patriotic Americans such as myself, so Ill be safe from that crowd. But Clinton supporters have convinced me--and here I am being 100% serious--that my safety is at risk if I am seen as supportive of Trump. So Im taking the safe way out and endorsing Hillary Clinton for president."

Posted by: Bruce With a Wang! at June 07, 2016 12:26 PM (iQIUe)

35
Besides Trump constantly breaking the Left's speech code rules, what is really their issue with him?

Posted by: Misheard Lyrics Guy at June 07, 2016 12:27 PM (yG7Ca)

36 Trump has already caused the undesirables to start self-deporting!
Hallelujah!

Posted by: @votermom at June 07, 2016 12:27 PM (7lVbc)

37 30 Wasn't this the same guy who said upstate NY towns should just wither and die? Or am I thinking of a different NRO jackoff.
Posted by: Monsieur Moo Moo at June 07, 2016 12:26 PM (0LHZx)

That's Kevin D. Williamson. The "D" stands for "die white working class scum."

Posted by: Insomniac at June 07, 2016 12:27 PM (DMWVF)

38 Nordlinger is the Bush family's stenographer. During the 2004 election he had a post at NRO about people expressing concern to him about GWB's handling of Iraq. Note that these people were not abandoning Bush, or publicly making a spectacle - just privately expressing concern that a re-think of policy might be warranted. Nordlinger's conclusion?: "I contemn these people."

Posted by: Emmett Milbarge at June 07, 2016 12:27 PM (nFdGS)

39 At the same time, though, the mean level of cultural crudity is on the rise and the class formal distinctions are becoming more and more frayed. Certainly the Not-Our-Kind-Dears of the upper Republican social group are under pressure to find somewhere else to be sniffy, but what it means to be sniffy is under constant decay. The college going class is routinely watching more and more of the same TV, partaking in more vulgarity, shopping at Costco, etc. etc.

The great hope, then, is that the self-distinction of the upper middle class finishes falling apart and the credulity given to a college education does as well right when most important. The phoenix from the ashes won't be terribly conservative, but will certainly lean populist, and I think disillusionment is a powerful drug.

Which is to say I don't think the self-considered trendy making good their escape will be The End Of All, but it's foolhardy to predict a result in certainty. Other than that "The Permanent Democratic Majority" as envisioned by the '08 Cult probably isn't it.

Posted by: Sporkatus at June 07, 2016 12:27 PM (HtLSE)

40 Upper Middle Class

or, as MooMoo calls them - The POVs.

Posted by: garrett at June 07, 2016 12:27 PM (I8Bd1)

41 30 Wasn't this the same guy who said upstate NY towns should just wither and die? Or am I thinking of a different NRO jackoff.
Posted by: Monsieur Moo Moo at June 07, 2016 12:26 PM (0LHZx)

Kevin Williamson

Posted by: AD at June 07, 2016 12:28 PM (Q+fXS)

42 "And people who consider themselves sophisticated -- people for whom a sense of sophistication is important to their self-evaluation -- aren't going to buy into this bozo."

Many of the Once Upon a Time Republicans that you describe have been drifting into the Blue Camp for years, over social issues, and more recently, because Big Business is becoming increasingly aligned with Big Gov and even the Cultural Left, and that's where they work and play. Because they're disproportionately in places like Manhattan, Silicon Valley and the more genteel suburbs of Deep Blue states, their voting power is already diluted.

I wish Trump was less of a bozo, but I wouldn't count him out.

Posted by: Ignoramus at June 07, 2016 12:28 PM (r1fLd)

43 Scott Adams thinks very highly of himself and the impact he has I guess

The only downside I can see to the new approach is that it is likely to trigger a race war in the United States. And I would be a top-ten assassination target in that scenario because once you define Trump as Hitler, you also give citizens moral permission to kill him.

Okaaaay

Posted by: RWC - Team BOHICA at June 07, 2016 12:28 PM (6TLl6)

44 I've always wondered about Nordlinger. Does he work for free? Does he give large donations to NR in exchange for . . . working at the magazine? I can't believe Lowry is actually paying him to emit those brain farts.

Posted by: bjk at June 07, 2016 12:28 PM (yNCOI)

45 well off to run errands

later

Posted by: Nevergiveup at June 07, 2016 12:28 PM (zp+j1)

46 Dang, as I wrote my comment Ace basically echoed it.

Posted by: DanMan at June 07, 2016 12:28 PM (RusNE)

47 And I really, really, really want to kill all the Irish! Like that Muldoon dick!

Posted by: zombie jonathan swift at June 07, 2016 12:28 PM (PLnZs)

48 Trump's only hope is that Pagliano squeals and it's really bad.

Posted by: bjk at June 07, 2016 12:28 PM (yNCOI)

49 Way too many people have become uppity crass

Posted by: Anna Puma at June 07, 2016 12:29 PM (RbRGC)

50 40 Upper Middle Class

or, as MooMoo calls them - The POVs.
Posted by: garrett at June 07, 2016 12:27 PM (I8Bd1)

______

I'm upper middle class I guess. But I don't vote like it.

Posted by: Monsieur Moo Moo at June 07, 2016 12:29 PM (0LHZx)

51 The peasants are revolting!

Posted by: Count de Monet

You're supposed to sock The Wizard of Id for that.

Posted by: Bandersnatch at June 07, 2016 12:29 PM (1xUj/)

52 My son just turned 18 and will be voting for the first time in November. He's got a crappy choice.

I had GHBush vs Dukakis in my first vote.
Two squishes, but at least not the sociopaths we're currently left to choose from

Posted by: McCool at June 07, 2016 12:29 PM (TQxRy)

53 Okaaaay
Posted by: RWC - Team BOHICA at June 07, 2016 12:28 PM (6TLl6

He said people were calling him Goebbels, which if true might have pissed him off.

Posted by: @votermom at June 07, 2016 12:29 PM (7lVbc)

54
I gotta lay off the low-grade beaver tranquilizers, they're making me see double.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at June 07, 2016 12:30 PM (gl5Kd)

55 51 The peasants are revolting!

Posted by: Count de Monet

You're supposed to sock The Wizard of Id for that.
Posted by: Bandersnatch at June 07, 2016 12:29 PM (1xUj/)

That's "The King is a fink!"

Posted by: Insomniac at June 07, 2016 12:30 PM (DMWVF)

56 Agree with some of your points, Ace, but you keep mischaracterizing opposition to Trump from the right.

"This isn't a wholesale attack on these people. They were always the most likely to flip liberal, as they share the most assumptions of what the "Good Life" consists of with liberals, and count far more liberals in their circle of micro-culture-making close relations than the average Republican."

Unless I misread, Nordlinger says Trump isn't conservative enough, and he says he won't support a Democrat. Sounds similar to Shapiro, who I thought you had a good exchange with. So why do you paint conservatives who don't support Trump as "flipping liberal"? We're not. Not everything is binary.

Posted by: PC Bushi at June 07, 2016 12:30 PM (Tysro)

57 ACE - I implore you to post a link to VDH's appearance on the John Batchelor show last week. He talks about the NeverTrump crowd, Natl Review, Acela Corridor, etc. He renders JBS and Mary Kissel speechless. RADIO GOLD!

I don't know how to do that shorten link thing so just google John Batchelor Show Podcasts.

Posted by: Sid at June 07, 2016 12:30 PM (xYNyF)

58 Besides Trump constantly breaking the Left's speech code rules, what is really their issue with him?

Posted by: Misheard Lyrics Guy at June 07, 2016 12:27 PM (yG7Ca)

The R next to his name.

You take Barky and all of his policies - don't change ANYTHING about him except have him be a Republican.

He'd be Uncle Tom House Negro Sellout #1 to the left.

Posted by: RWC - Team BOHICA at June 07, 2016 12:30 PM (6TLl6)

59 Unfortunately the GOP needed to die.

Bullets flying back and forth in the American Cold Civil War have included fracture lines on race, class, economics, geography, and fuck knows what else. This might just be the fatal round.

There's that neo-Marxist "intersectionality" thing. Are you still upper middle class as long as you have the house in a nice suburb, even if you were laid off four years ago and living off the 401K you had to cash out early? Donald Trump is rich as shit, but obviously is a lower class boor at heart. Hillary Clinton is rich, but does her lack of male privilege outweigh the fact she's rich on the Oppression Meter?

And yeah, Republicans of a certain social niche would rather stick with the neighbors than have unpleasant scenes with the neighbors that might upset little Chad's soccer carpool.

Kids, keep going long on canned food and rifle ammo.

Posted by: Colonel Kurtz at June 07, 2016 12:30 PM (VrRpv)

60 So if Trump wins despite carrying the unbelievable millstone that is the condemnation of NRO Republicans, what's the reaction here going to be?

Posted by: Jake (not officially a regular) at June 07, 2016 12:30 PM (1BdMd)

61 I think maybe it's the wisest, best course to not get too hung up on horserace/story of the day crap, and maybe start focusing on long-term positioning and hashing out actual philosophy -- what we'd like a party, optimally, to be.

------------

This is absolutely what Conservatives need to do.

But I don't think you are entirely fair to the NeverTrumpers. Yes, many of them are Rubio-supporting moderates. But Trumps opponents also include a lot of grass roots Conservatives, the folks who work in the trenches of the state parties - for instance, the people who gave Cruz most of Washington's delegates after he had dropped out. I also don't think your class analysis is entirely fair to folks like Thomas Sowell, Ben Shapiro, Mark Levin, David French, Ben Sasse, Ted Cruz, Mike Lee - I really think their critique of Trump goes much deeper then his crudity.

Posted by: person at June 07, 2016 12:30 PM (mFkVC)

62 Political parties re-align every generation or two. This isn't something new.

Posted by: Monsieur Moo Moo at June 07, 2016 12:30 PM (0LHZx)

63 "Seems like a fair trade. Purge the GOP of the liberal backstabbers and gain a loyal blue collar middle class democrat. "

like your optimism Wu Chu, good take

Posted by: DanMan at June 07, 2016 12:30 PM (RusNE)

64
Maybe theyll all finally admit Fascism appeals to them.

None of those Shis have shown an iota of conservatism in decades.

Posted by: Misheard Lyrics Guy at June 07, 2016 12:31 PM (yG7Ca)

65 To cast a vote for a candidate means "I am willing for this candidate to hold the office." I am absolutely not willing for Donald Trump to hold the office of President of the United States. To cast a vote for him would be a lie, a self-betrayal. So you guys will have to do this without me.

Posted by: Bat Chain Puller at June 07, 2016 12:31 PM (SCcgT)

66 Listened to the Federalist podcast this morning during the commute. I know nothing of this guy, other than he is the CEO at Heritage Action for America.

Sure made me feel a little better about the state of things.

podcast is here... http://bit.ly/28i2Mnm

Posted by: Golfman at June 07, 2016 12:31 PM (b6FQn)

67 Posted by: Misheard Lyrics Guy at June 07, 2016 12:27 PM (yG7Ca)

Like ace says a lot of it is ego/virtue signaling, but I also think that a lot of it is the fact that Trump threatens their financial existence as barnacles on the ship of state.

Posted by: Alex #11 at June 07, 2016 12:32 PM (EUMt/)

68 Look, if they feel that their financial interests align with Hillary then of course they'll vote for her.
Grab em by the wallet and their hearts and minds will follow.
#gravytrain vs #trumptrain

Posted by: @votermom at June 07, 2016 12:32 PM (7lVbc)

69 I'm upper middle class white, and I exited the "party" in 2008, and I've never looked back. #GaryJohnson2016

Seriously, Trump is significantly less offensive to me than Mitt Romney or John McCain, because they will screw you in the a$$ and tell you to shut up and like it. I despise all of these establishment types, and they have ruined this country. If a little bit of rain gets to fall on their parade, too, then la-di-da.

Posted by: sunny-dee at June 07, 2016 12:32 PM (QAOZh)

70 He said people were calling him Goebbels, which if true might have pissed him off.

Posted by: @votermom at June 07, 2016 12:29 PM (7lVbc)

I'm just saying -'top ten'

But he's absolutely right in that article.

Posted by: RWC - Team BOHICA at June 07, 2016 12:32 PM (6TLl6)

71 >>>24 Didn't the same shit happen in 1980? All the blue blood GOP types despised Reagan. Fuck all them.

Reagan was a genius, though. Those who called him "dumb" just disagreed with his conclusions.

Trump actually is an ignoramus and speaks in a stupid way. I support several of trump's ideas (to the extent he has them), but that doesn't mean they're not expressed in a low, crude manner.

Posted by: ace at June 07, 2016 12:32 PM (dciA+)

72 Matthew 7:23, KJV:

"And then I will profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye who work iniquity."

Might not be the exact applicable verse or context, but the sentiment here, is surely understandable.

I don't want to be a member of any Country Club that's a Country Club of Country Club Republicans. Or their Democrat bretheren.

Looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck. Some assembly reqd.

Jim
Sunk New Dawn
Galveston, TX

Posted by: Jim at June 07, 2016 12:32 PM (v5iqM)

73 Ace said:

"It's also a note to the Trump people, who pushed Trump, despite my repeated warnings that if you do this, you will lose this quarter of the party.
...
This election is lost."

Hold on a minute, there!

Any time a party is re-aligned, of course you LOSE voters -- but you also GAIN voters!

The GOP is making a (long overdue) realignment to jettison the elite upper class, who will move over to the D column, and in their place attract a whole fresh category of disgruntled lower-middle class whites, who will move from the D column (wherre they have been trapped uncomfortably since the '60s) to the R column.

I wager that the number of disgruntled lower-middle class whites FAR OUTNUMBERS the number of elite limousine liberals.

Overall, this is a net plus for the GOP.

The election is not anywhere close to being lost.

There will be about 73 October Surprises, against both candidates, between now and November. Anything can happen.

Posted by: zombie at June 07, 2016 12:33 PM (jBuUi)

74 Unless I misread, Nordlinger says Trump isn't conservative enough, and he says he won't support a Democrat. Sounds similar to Shapiro, who I thought you had a good exchange with. So why do you paint conservatives who don't support Trump as "flipping liberal"? We're not. Not everything is binary.
Posted by: PC Bushi at June 07, 2016 12:30 PM (Tysro)

_____

This (and every other) election is binary.

Hillary will win OR Trump will win.

So when you throw your #nevertrump tantrum you're supporting Hillary. Doesn't get more black and white.

Posted by: Monsieur Moo Moo at June 07, 2016 12:33 PM (0LHZx)

75 And fuck whoever thinks refusing to vote for Trump makes me an out-of-the-closet liberal.

Posted by: Bat Chain Puller at June 07, 2016 12:33 PM (SCcgT)

76 60 So if Trump wins despite carrying the unbelievable millstone that is the condemnation of NRO Republicans, what's the reaction here going to be?

Posted by: Jake (not officially a regular) at June 07, 2016 12:30 PM (1BdMd)

I'll be getting ready for the coming bloodshed

Posted by: RWC - Team BOHICA at June 07, 2016 12:33 PM (6TLl6)

77 Ace,

Nobody will miss them, as a class they have been spectacular failures at opposing the ever ratcheting machinations of the lunatic left. So what if they abandon the party? They are loosers anyway, good riddance.

Posted by: Mark Dietzler at June 07, 2016 12:33 PM (8RVso)

78 Analysis: True.

I work in banking and live in Philly suburbs. Nobody I know openly supports Trump. I believe there's quite a bit of support for him among my peeps but nobody at work or in social circles can talk about it. One nice lady at dinner couple of nights ago said "We can't elect Hillary" and was set upon by several at the table that we *have* to in order to prevent the evil ogre from sullying the WH.

Posted by: A McNease at June 07, 2016 12:33 PM (Zxs9d)

79 I think the major turning point in all this was the RNC's 2012 "autopsy" on the presidential election. Their big solution was amnesty for illegals. There was nothing of substance for the middle or working class. It just made it perfectly clear who their masters were.

Posted by: Mark1971 at June 07, 2016 12:33 PM (vaR50)

80 >>>Unless I misread, Nordlinger says Trump isn't conservative enough, and he says he won't support a Democrat. Sounds similar to Shapiro, who I thought you had a good exchange with. So why do you paint conservatives who don't support Trump as "flipping liberal"? We're not. Not everything is binary.

yeah but so much of this is due to a very strong agreement with the most central of liberal values -- political correctness.

Nordlinger says he wants a more "conservative" trump, but that brand of conservatism seems to take 90% of the left's political correctness agenda as right and true.

Posted by: ace at June 07, 2016 12:34 PM (dciA+)

81 screw them...they can fall in line, like they have DEMANDED the rest of the party do, or they can be treated like the democong when the burning times come.

their precious lil feel-feels are hurt? their false ideology exposed? their reliance of protection on people they disparage threatened?

SCREW...THEM

when it was time to stand up to the corruption and treason of the democong, they did NOTHING
when it was time for them to protect the income and security of Americans OTHER then themselves, they did NOTHING

SCREW...THEM

I posted yest'day about my contempt for these folk, the class from which I sprung. afaiac, the bulk of them have do-nothing and/or parasitical jobs to begun with.

so I tell the gope-trash, fall in line, or be considered as democong when the reckoning comes

Posted by: Grad School Fool at June 07, 2016 12:34 PM (swEzU)

82 I'm not assuming so soon that the election is lost.

Posted by: joeclark77 at June 07, 2016 12:34 PM (V2Bu6)

83 Reagan was a genius, though. Those who called him "dumb" just disagreed with his conclusions.

Posted by: ace at June 07, 2016 12:32 PM (dciA+)

____

Yeah that's why Ferrell and Co are making a movie about how Reagan had to be told where he was every day. They just disagreed with his conclusions.

Come on man.

Posted by: Monsieur Moo Moo at June 07, 2016 12:34 PM (0LHZx)

84
I guess Nordlinger will vote for Parachutin', Plagiarizin' Joe then.

Posted by: iforgot at June 07, 2016 12:34 PM (pC96u)

85 Rejecting the GOP right now is the only principled conservative move. Embracing Trump is actually embracing a tax-hiking pro-abortion liberal.

Posted by: Shooter McGavin at June 07, 2016 12:34 PM (OD23t)

86 The Democrat party is also fracturing along class lines. The rich socialist-lite group, the hard core 99% lefties and the working class all seem to be going their seperate ways.

Hillary will attract all of group A, a part of B (once Bernie and Warren give in) and a plurality of C. Trump might attract more of C than Hillary does, or so he claims (and hopes).

This election needs some clarity. If Hillary loses the FBI primary that might (paradoxically) give us that clarity. Despite Trump being maybe a horrible idiot I don't agree this election is yet lost.

Posted by: MTF at June 07, 2016 12:34 PM (/m8T6)

87
This is absolutely what Conservatives need to do.

Right.

Do you really think youre fooling anyone here with you seminar comments to drive down support for Trump?

Posted by: Misheard Lyrics Guy at June 07, 2016 12:34 PM (yG7Ca)

88 We need a national divorce.

Posted by: artist at June 07, 2016 12:34 PM (TwnkX)

89 Hillary The Unindictable will be elected.

Incompetence and greed on the part of the GOP Establishment, lack of subtlety on the part of The Donald, conservative malaise, and voter fraud will carry the day!

Posted by: Hrothgar at June 07, 2016 12:34 PM (wYnyS)

90 The GOPe is a fink!

Posted by: The Lone Haranguer at June 07, 2016 12:34 PM (PLnZs)

91 I mean, I understand defeatism when Trump is polling double-digits behind. I think it's silly to pretend polls are fixed in stone forever, but I get the pessimism. But when he just blipped ahead and is hanging around within two points in the RCP average?

How does the actual number of #NeverTrump diehards compare to the number of Bernouts who will follow through with their #NeverHillary threats?

Hell, what kind of half time speech did you give when your football team was down by 3? "Well guys, we're obviously fucked, and I just want you to know that I blame our inevitable loss on Donald over there."

Posted by: Jake (not officially a regular) at June 07, 2016 12:35 PM (1BdMd)

92 60 So if Trump wins despite carrying the unbelievable millstone that is the condemnation of NRO Republicans, what's the reaction here going to be?
Posted by: Jake (not officially a regular) at June 07, 2016 12:30 PM (1BdMd)

Mine will be the reaction of H.I. McDonough's parole board in Raising Arizona: well OK then.

Posted by: Insomniac at June 07, 2016 12:35 PM (DMWVF)

93 No worries, this kind of break up has worked out just fine in Venezuela. I assume that's the trend we are one now that the fast and happy hour middle class has flipped. I know it wasn't social status but survival that has them throwing in the towel in Venezuela but the results will be similar. Maybe the Democrat version of Hugo will be more competent... probably not.

Posted by: Knaws at June 07, 2016 12:36 PM (kAH2u)

94 I work in banking and live in Philly suburbs. Nobody I know openly supports Trump. I believe there's quite a bit of support for him among my peeps but nobody at work or in social circles can talk about it. One nice lady at dinner couple of nights ago said "We can't elect Hillary" and was set upon by several at the table that we *have* to in order to prevent the evil ogre from sullying the WH.
Posted by: A McNease at June 07, 2016 12:33 PM (Zxs9d)

_____

The shy Tory. It's been around for a while.

Posted by: Monsieur Moo Moo at June 07, 2016 12:36 PM (0LHZx)

95 The GOPe took middle American conservatives for granted for quite a while. Trump is their reward. It would be best if the GOPe just accepted their new role of electing Democrats.

Posted by: Carl at June 07, 2016 12:36 PM (2W8vN)

96 The way the realignment looks likely to shake out, ideas such as smaller government, entitlement reform, personal liberty, and Constitutionalism will find themselves without a party.

Trump is the Destroyer, and those are the ideas he looks set to destroy - or at least strand in the wilderness for several decades.

Posted by: person at June 07, 2016 12:36 PM (mFkVC)

97 >>>Any time a party is re-aligned, of course you LOSE voters -- but you also GAIN voters!

I see no gains. The Trump Primary Voters were already GOP general election voters -- they just didn't vote in primaries before.

Meanwhile, Trump is not making inroads with the one group he could make inroads with -- whites.

the sort of dancing-on-the-edge of racism is just not a draw for many whites. A couple, a handful. Not many.

I officially give up. This is not a heavy lift, this is an impossible lift. I'm done trying. It's hopeless.

It's time to hope for other things.

Posted by: ace at June 07, 2016 12:36 PM (dciA+)

98
Probably but we shall see. A lot of time between now and November for Trump to say stupid shit. I expect there will be quite a few public defections such as Nordingler (who by the way says he will not vote for either Trump or Hillary).

Posted by: JackStraw at June 07, 2016 12:26 PM (/tuJf)

There is also a lot of time between now and November for things called "events" to happen.

I've swung all over the place on this - from "Trump doesn't have a chance" to "actually he could do pull it off" back to "nah, not a chance." Sometimes that happens in the course of a day, not an week or a month.

Trump's latest gaffe (why the f didn't he bring up La Raza immediately?) coupled with the news that Hill has clinched the nomination (So just stay home California Bernie supporters, the msm says you've lost.) once again makes Hillary appear inevitable. It also takes the focus off the Mexican flag waving, egg throwing aholes that make Trump look good.

But they will be back. And let's not forget the unknown unknowns. We do not know.

Posted by: Donna and V. (sans ampersands at the present time) at June 07, 2016 12:36 PM (u0lmX)

99 >>When you're that far gone emotionally -- when you can't even rouse a bit
of fellow-feeling for people being attacked on the streets -- you have
checked out of any kind of "relationship," be it personal or political......
The reality is clear
enough: they just don't feel emotionally connected to the base of the
party any longer.

Nailed it.

So what is going to happen when the RNC in Cleveland becomes a violent LARP of 1968? Are these polite GOPe folks going to brush it off like San Jose?

Posted by: Lizzy at June 07, 2016 12:37 PM (NOIQH)

100 So if Trump wins despite carrying the unbelievable millstone that is the condemnation of NRO Republicans, what's the reaction here going to be?

Posted by: Jake (not officially a regular) at June 07, 2016 12:30 PM

I have already accepted that possibility, and am at peace with it.

So I've started the seven stages of grieving, and the 21 step program for detoxification just in case Hillary gets elected president. I figure if I can accept Hillary, then Bernie won't be a problem.

Either way, there is nothing I can do about it, so I'm working on acceptance. No sense in getting killed over who is the next president.

Live hard, and party often, I say.

Posted by: Wu Chu, King of Chu at June 07, 2016 12:37 PM (mT20P)

101 We're right now in the constantly-finding-fault-and-denigrating-and-putting-down phase of the rapidly dissolving marriage. Seems awful, yes: But it will seem like "The Good Times" when the actual divorce comes.

AKA, hallway sex.

Posted by: joncelli, A Stout, Nay, Gravitationally Enhanced Fellow at June 07, 2016 12:37 PM (Mt8T4)

102 Nordlinger's a whiny little bitch, isn't he?

Posted by: OregonMuse at June 07, 2016 12:38 PM (OxsRO)

103 >>>The shy Tory. It's been around for a while.

yeah that's about a 2.5% effect.

a real winning candidate, someone really changing mind, doesn't have #SecretVoters.

A real winning candidate has voters proud to declare their allegiance.

Posted by: ace at June 07, 2016 12:38 PM (dciA+)

104 They are loosers anyway, good riddance.

Posted by: Mark Dietzler at June 07, 2016 12:33 PM (8RVso)

It's not the Establishment losers so much as the moderate, slightly squishy, normally Republican, voters they'll take with them.

Posted by: Hrothgar at June 07, 2016 12:38 PM (wYnyS)

105 I think Ace that your pessimism may be environmental - is the crowd you hang with generally NRO types who think.Trump is doomed?

Posted by: @votermom at June 07, 2016 12:38 PM (7lVbc)

106 >>and few will voluntarily undertake any action which results in a loss of social status.<<

Uh, voting for Democrats will do that faster than Trump or the GOP.

The "Upper Middle Class", Marxist terminology by the way, has only done well because a big part of their income comes from investments. They have status because of wealth. Maybe they should listen closer to what Democrats are saying about their "status".

Posted by: Marcus T at June 07, 2016 12:38 PM (O0lVq)

107 Also I have to add that Trump is incidental to the divorce. He's like the ugly broad who gets the husband to cheat simply by telling him he's hot and not yelling at him about how terrible he is. Right place, right time, right message. But this was inevitable given the last several years.

Posted by: A McNease at June 07, 2016 12:38 PM (Zxs9d)

108 Gotta hand it to Ace - takes an honorable man to basically tell people to stay away from his blog for their own sanity the next 5 months.

I'm at the point where I don't really care anymore. Maybe next year "Texit" will be in our political lexicon. If a Trump loss brings that about, I can't think of anything more healthy for us to talk about the national divorce instead of just a party divorce, which I'm convinced is the result of the left's constant efforts to rip us apart along the fault lines of tactical left-wing appeasement and all-out resistance.

Let's be honest. This union is beyond salvageable. We've all known it, but for some reason we keep thinking we're one hail mary pass from getting a foothold in reversing it. We're not and haven't been for the last 50 years because we haven't even been honest with ourselves about what was happening until very recently.

Posted by: Crrr6 (hotair refugee) at June 07, 2016 12:38 PM (s9KBB)

109 Well I'm a registered Independent... Dumped the GOP a couple years ago.... In My heart I know Trump can't win....Hate to admit it...

Posted by: donna at June 07, 2016 12:38 PM (O2RFr)

110 You know, you don't have to go full SJW to prove you're not Alt-Right, right? You can strike a more nuanced position than the liberal extreme.

Or one could take one's ego out of the equation. One could decide not to use politics as a resume bullet point.

How about not using politics as a Bennigan's waiter vest?

Posted by: weft cut-loop at June 07, 2016 12:39 PM (p2X2f)

111 >>yeah but so much of this is due to a very strong agreement with the most central of liberal values -- political correctness.

I hate politcal correctness as much as anyone but there is a yuuuge difference between pc and just saying racist of stupid shit. Trump strapped on the Fonzie jacket with his Mexican judge crap.

All Trump had to say was I believe this judge has a bias against me and my positions based on his association with La Raza. That is a perfectly defensible position and would have had a lot of people jumping to his defense instead of stepping away.

This is the problem with Trump. It's not that some of the stuff he says is completely wrong it's that he says stuff in such a clumsy and stupid way it turns a lot of people off. That doesn't make them liberal or virtue signalers. It makes them what we used to call normal people.

Posted by: JackStraw at June 07, 2016 12:39 PM (/tuJf)

112 Latest polling:

CT: Hillary +7 CT?!?
FL: Hillary +3 (Mason Dixon release June 3)

National:
IBD: Clinton +5 (released yesterday)

If it's time to throw in the towel when Trump is losing by 3 in FL, then fuck everyone on the right for being such pussies.

Posted by: Monsieur Moo Moo at June 07, 2016 12:39 PM (0LHZx)

113 >>>So if Trump wins despite carrying the unbelievable millstone that is the condemnation of NRO Republicans, what's the reaction here going to be?

Posted by: Jake (not officially a regular) at June 07, 2016 12:30 PM

...

but he won't. You can't win an election when you're socially toxic to 25% of your would-be base.

You can't just give away 25%!

25% is serious. That's not 3% or 5%.

That's a fucking quarter!

Posted by: ace at June 07, 2016 12:39 PM (dciA+)

114 F**k them. Take their uppity ass ball and go home. I ain't giving up no way ... no how. My entire family for three generations were Yellow Dogs. We all switched in 2008 to keep TFG out of the White House. If I voted for McCain and Romney, I damn sure will vote for Trump. F**ckers they want you when they need you and if you don't play by their rules they take their ball and go home. Pussies the lot of them. I am not surrendering.

Posted by: wasone at June 07, 2016 12:39 PM (nA3uK)

115 I gotta lay off the low-grade beaver tranquilizers, they're making me see double.-------IllTemperedCur

I didn't know there were high grade beaver tranquilizers. Learn something new every day...forget something old every day.

Posted by: Tilikum KAW at June 07, 2016 12:39 PM (uhftQ)

116 Hillary has chased Bernie to the extreme Left. Wait until your Upper Middle Class wake up to find out who'll be made to pay the bill for an experiment in Democratic Socialism.

Posted by: Ignoramus at June 07, 2016 12:39 PM (r1fLd)

117 They are loosers anyway, good riddance.
Posted by: Mark Dietzler at June 07, 2016 12:33 PM (8RVso)

If they're the loosers, who are the tighteners?

Posted by: Insomniac at June 07, 2016 12:39 PM (DMWVF)

118
#ImWithHer

Ben Howe (Red State editor) May 3, 2016

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at June 07, 2016 12:40 PM (kdS6q)

119 re Scott Adams: If a race war starts, your skin color is your uniform. Virtue signalling and goodthink isn't going to save your ass if you get caught in the middle of it.

Posted by: Lemmenkainen at June 07, 2016 12:40 PM (Hj1vf)

120 @73
=========================

I agree with Zombie's points too. Lots of time yet.

But Trump needs to fi d a way to increase his support level past 40. So far, his polling gains have all been the result of Hillary's declines. A little positive movement would be big news.

Posted by: MTF, please excuse iphone spelling errors at June 07, 2016 12:40 PM (/m8T6)

121 Fuck the GOP.

Posted by: Cloyd Freud, Unemployed at June 07, 2016 12:40 PM (ZEzaq)

122 Today would be a good day to rile up the Bernouts.

Their candidate is being cheated! Cheated! Probably they should peaceably assemble at a Hillary even to show their feelings.

Posted by: @votermom at June 07, 2016 12:40 PM (7lVbc)

123 Somebody came to the conclusion that we're NOT going to vote our way out of this.

Posted by: ScoggDog at June 07, 2016 12:40 PM (jeefx)

124 person at June 07, 2016 12:36 PM

Pretty much. But entitlement reform will come regardless. The financial reality of it makes it inevitable. It will just be done the hard way, when a crisis is reached and nobody can deny it any longer.

Posted by: Mark1971 at June 07, 2016 12:40 PM (vaR50)

125 A lot of people are deliberately allowing themselves to be conned if you think there is anything conservative about Trump. Name one issue he's genuinely to the right of Hillary on besides his wall-with-Mexico. As for the wall, you're counting on a guy who has declared bankruptcy four times and started up many scams, including Trump U and Trump Network, to deliver? Come on. It's ridiculous to think there's any chance he'll come through on that. Nordlinger is leaving from the right, where as Andrew Sullivan left from the left. Huge difference.

Posted by: Shooter McGavin at June 07, 2016 12:40 PM (OD23t)

126 115 I gotta lay off the low-grade beaver tranquilizers, they're making me see double.-------IllTemperedCur

I didn't know there were high grade beaver tranquilizers. Learn something new every day...forget something old every day.
Posted by: Tilikum KAW at June 07, 2016 12:39 PM (uhftQ)

The beavers are not calm, repeat, the beavers are not calm.

Posted by: Insomniac at June 07, 2016 12:40 PM (DMWVF)

127 So here's what I don't get. Why don't these "true conservatives" (for whatever definition we're using for people who hate Trump and think he's a threat to the republic) actually push back if he makes an action that's bad or unconstitutional?

You know, we used to have this system in place in this country. It was pretty cool. We "seperated" the "powers" across different branches of government, and had this system that "checked" one another when one piece got out of line.

I think that sort of thing was pretty great. Maybe we can bring that back.

If you're so afraid of Trump (and not you, people reading this, you national level politicians), you're tacitly accepting that you accept the premise that the president is this godlike position that can't be effectively fought by any of the other branches of government.

Screw you. If you were really conservative, you'd actually exercise the power granted to the legislature (or of the states), and stand up to him.

Posted by: joe, living dangerously at June 07, 2016 12:40 PM (KUaJL)

128
"And people who consider themselves sophisticated -- people for whom a
sense of sophistication is important to their self-evaluation -- aren't
going to buy into this bozo."

=====

But they already do. The bozo is 'winning' and 'tough' and an 'alpha' -- and anyone who does not buy into those characterizations is a 'sellout' and 'voting for Hillary'.

Posted by: mustbequantum at June 07, 2016 12:40 PM (MIKMs)

129 >>>This is the problem with Trump. It's not that some of the stuff he says is completely wrong it's that he says stuff in such a clumsy and stupid way it turns a lot of people off. That doesn't make them liberal or virtue signalers. It makes them what we used to call normal people.

I guess that's why it turns you off, if you say so.

I continue to not understand how "Leans Democratic in Political Outlook" became a RACIST SLUR in the past week.

It's not one of the classic Racist Slurs I'm used to.

But we live in culture of "concept creep:"

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/04/concept-creep/477939/

Posted by: ace at June 07, 2016 12:41 PM (dciA+)

130 Stop assuming we should shore up the imperium:
http://cutjibnewsletter.com/2016/05/a-tale-of-two-quotes-and-a-path-forward/

Posted by: tsrlbke PhD(c), rogue bioethicist at June 07, 2016 12:41 PM (tM4uk)

131 I'll just never understand why Amnesty had to be this thing that was so important to these people that they were willing to to blow up the GOP over it.

I could understand if the polls showed it was an incredibly unpopular position, but most data I've seen shows a border hawk position is incredibly popular with people. I can almost guarantee you Hillary will do everything to NOT talk about the one issue that got Trump the nomination.

FWIW, I don't think this election is gone even though some Beltway players are leaving.

Posted by: Maritime at June 07, 2016 12:41 PM (qed1T)

132 It all boils down to trying to feel superior to other people. Rich or poor alike strive to be better than their peers and are constantly looking for new ways to strut their moral superiority.

It goes like this: If you can't be more successful than your peers, then invent a moral code that makes you superior to them. When all are in agreement with the new code, invent a new one.

Posted by: Cygnus at June 07, 2016 12:41 PM (fdavN)

133 Trump = Kerosene

My vote = match.

LIB

Posted by: Mr. Mxyzptlk at June 07, 2016 12:41 PM (kHJ3a)

134 When protesters burn Cleveland to the ground and people end up in the hospital or worse, I think a lot of on the fence or sitting this one out voters may change their mind.

The NRO types that kneel at the new "Rules of Court" of political correctness can sit at home cluck their tongues all they want.

Posted by: brak at June 07, 2016 12:41 PM (MJuTN)

135
Do you really think youre fooling anyone here with you seminar comments to drive down support for Trump?
Posted by: Misheard Lyrics Guy at June 07, 2016 12:34 PM (yG7Ca)

=========
Most people here ignore him.

Posted by: Bruce With a Wang! at June 07, 2016 12:41 PM (iQIUe)

136 yeah that's about a 2.5% effect.

a real winning candidate, someone really changing mind, doesn't have #SecretVoters.

A real winning candidate has voters proud to declare their allegiance.

Posted by: ace at June 07, 2016 12:38 PM (dciA+)

____

And given that Hillary is winning FL by only 3%, that 2.5% will kind of be important, no?

Posted by: Monsieur Moo Moo at June 07, 2016 12:41 PM (0LHZx)

137 And there's just none of it from the "elite" (and I use that word advisedly) of the party for the base anymore.

They do not regard us as the "base". They just want us to go away.

The Uniparty Elites want to replace the white American middle class with illiterate Third World peasants, as they are more tractable and do not yammer on endlessly about silly 18th century anachronisms like "constitutions" and "rights".

Posted by: rickl at June 07, 2016 12:41 PM (zoehZ)

138 I live amongst the Upper Middle Class of suburban Maryland. They are died in the wool Democrats and have never been Republicans. I attribute it to self loathing, but only see anecdotal evidence.

Posted by: TheMoomintroll at June 07, 2016 12:42 PM (fMhOl)

139 A while ago, Ace wrote that Trump is doing horrible damage to opponents of illegal immigration, make the issue radioactive.

He's doing the exact same thing to meaningful discussions of Political Correctness. We NEED to talk about the damage PC does to the free exchange of ideas, but Trump has reduced it to an issue of whether one man - Trump - should be criticized for saying moronic things.

Posted by: person at June 07, 2016 12:42 PM (mFkVC)

140 97 >>>Any time a party is re-aligned, of course you LOSE voters -- but you also GAIN voters!

I see no gains. The Trump Primary Voters were already GOP general election voters -- they just didn't vote in primaries before.

Meanwhile, Trump is not making inroads with the one group he could make inroads with -- whites.

the sort of dancing-on-the-edge of racism is just not a draw for many whites. A couple, a handful. Not many.

I officially give up. This is not a heavy lift, this is an impossible lift. I'm done trying. It's hopeless.

It's time to hope for other things.

Posted by: ace

What?

There is a HUGE demographic of lower middle class white workers (and former workers) who have long voted for the Democratic Party out of cultural habit, but they were always an awkward fit in the party. I'm talkin' 'bout people like coal miners (who voted for the D because it was the pro-union party of "labor") and other manual laborers; and also unemployed whites on welfare who voted selfishly for the party of more welfare, even though the Democrats despised everything about the "redneck trailer trash" who foolishly gave their votes to those who mocked them.

Ace, you are just letting a couple of recent polls cloud your vision. Polls are bullshit. This race is wide open.

Posted by: zombie at June 07, 2016 12:42 PM (jBuUi)

141 In order for Trump to lose, Hillary! must win. I see that as unlikely.

Or Hillary! has to be cashiered out in favor of someone else (Biden, Sanders, whoever), who then wins. I also see that as unlikely.

So while Trump's victory is far from certain, he just has to outperform Hillary!. And there's no way she performs as well as Obama did in '12, who underperformed his 2008 self.

I mean, okay, sure unfavorables and loss of support, but still. Hillary is an ancient and unpopular Establishment crone who is limping to her own coronation. Maybe the election will be closer than it should be, but I don't think now's the time for the murder-suicide pact.

Posted by: Lance McCormick at June 07, 2016 12:42 PM (u0s1P)

142 Nordlinger's a whiny little bitch, isn't he?
Posted by: OregonMuse at June 07, 2016 12:38 PM (OxsRO)

-------

Yes.

Posted by: Seems Legit at June 07, 2016 12:42 PM (U+nHb)

143 in any event, in all honesty, I'm a sophisticated guy myself.

Trump turns ME off, too.

But what I have been trying to remind people is that we're talking, as an alternative, A THIRD OBAMA TERM AND PRESIDENT HILLARY CLINTON.

For some, this seems to be... now nearly preferable, as they tell themselves that at least they "will not be responsible for it" (despite being as responsible for it as any Hillary voter).

whatever. we wish to commit suicide; that's the way it is.

Posted by: ace at June 07, 2016 12:42 PM (dciA+)

144 I know a way to get Trump the win... I'll back Hillary!... I haven't been right yet....

Posted by: donna at June 07, 2016 12:43 PM (O2RFr)

145 I'm still trying to watch this... Sven, Jim, Rhomboid.

But I think revisionism is rampant in this... Prof. Hasegawa thinks the dropping of the atomic bombs to save American lives is a myth.

https://youtu.be/E7DQds1P6jg

Posted by: Anna Puma at June 07, 2016 12:43 PM (RbRGC)

146 Are the upper middle class GOP voters all queer lawyers? That is what most GOP Senators are.

Posted by: Ok at June 07, 2016 12:43 PM (j2xmV)

147
FLASHBACK: Sotomayor said ethnicity 'will make difference in our judging'...

==========
Hahahahaha!

Posted by: Bruce With a Wang! at June 07, 2016 12:43 PM (iQIUe)

148 I'll just never understand why Amnesty had to be this thing that was so important to these people that they were willing to to blow up the GOP over it.

$$$$$$

Posted by: brak at June 07, 2016 12:43 PM (MJuTN)

149 >>>here is a HUGE demographic of lower middle class white workers (and former workers) who have long voted for the Democratic Party out of cultural habit, but they were always an awkward fit in the party.

um no they haven't.

they've been voting for GOP for years even if they retained their nominal Dem party membership

the whites who are dem voters tend be college educated and single women

Posted by: ace at June 07, 2016 12:43 PM (dciA+)

150 It's time to hope for other things.

Kate Upton has done wet t-shirt but not official topless yet, so I'm hoping for that.

Posted by: Bandersnatch at June 07, 2016 12:44 PM (1xUj/)

151
Need I remind you that in 2004 several of these same type Republicans disavowed George Bush.

Lincoln Chafee, while still a Repblican, made sure everyone knew he was going to write-in George H W Bush on election day.

Dont worry too much about these weak kneed Shits.

Posted by: Misheard Lyrics Guy at June 07, 2016 12:44 PM (yG7Ca)

152 Ace,

Come down off it man. I am a college professor, and in the humanities no less. And yet I've read your blog since 2004. I am one of a very tiny minority...and yet you're basically telling me to fuck off.

OK...I get the message. I've got it from Trump as well. If the GOP is to be the party of proudly ignorant white nationalism, then yeah...I'm out.

But please stop complaining about the liberal bias of academia and intellectuals generally when you openly celebrate the most vulgar anti-intellectualism.

There is nothing wrong with being an ideologue. I am an ideologue. I believe in things. Trump does not believe in the things I believe in (many of which are described by Nordlinger). I do not believe in "winning". The very concept is meaningless to me.

Posted by: Jason at June 07, 2016 12:44 PM (B+KeO)

153 but he won't. You can't win an election when you're socially toxic to 25% of your would-be base.

You can't just give away 25%!

25% is serious. That's not 3% or 5%.

That's a fucking quarter!

Posted by: ace at June 07, 2016 12:39 PM (dciA+)

____

How did you come up with 25% Ace? You number may be correct for 2008. But not for today. Many of these people went to Obama's side in 2008. David Brooks, et al. I know a few myself. Life long Republicans, who thought McCain and Romney were too right wing. So of that 25%, at least 15% is already on Team Blue and has been for a while.

Posted by: Monsieur Moo Moo at June 07, 2016 12:44 PM (0LHZx)

154
And fuck whoever thinks refusing to vote for Trump makes me an out-of-the-closet liberal.

Not me. There's plenty of reasoned opposition to Teh Donald, and much of it I agree with. And I could even sit out the election if I wanted, since I live in Massachusetts; this satrapy of hell would go for Scankles even if she beat Big Papi to death in the middle of Fenway Park.

I can understand not voting for Trump. But for any "Republican," "conservative," "paleo" or whatever they call themselves move on from that point to say they will vote for Hillary - a woman who would accelerate the destruction of the First and Second Amendments, who would have a completely open-border policy and who would without question use the power of the federal government to harass and, indeed, arrest her political opposition - either because you actually prefer her as president to that lowlife Trump or because you want the dumb Trumpkins to get shafted good and hard - that is beyond the pale. IMO.

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at June 07, 2016 12:44 PM (X6fMO)

155 Is this the Chicken Little thread ?

Posted by: seamrog at June 07, 2016 12:44 PM (o9Bwk)

156 The hatred is palpable.

The feeling is mutual.

2016 is vengeance for 2014 (and 2012 and...)

I've said repeatedly this was a self-inflicted injury. Had those GOPe folk had the slightest empathy for the base and done anything of real value to protect them and their interests, Trump would have faded out last fall and we'd have someone else now.

They had it coming.

I find it impossible to care.

Posted by: Brother Cavil, readying the webcam at June 07, 2016 12:44 PM (9krrF)

157 >>I gotta lay off the low-grade beaver tranquilizers
>>I didn't know there were high grade beaver tranquilizer

Chocolate v Diamonds

Posted by: garrett at June 07, 2016 12:44 PM (I8Bd1)

158 >>There will be about 73 October Surprises, against both candidates, between now and November. Anything can happen.

Plus whatever shenanigans Obama does in his final months.
What if he tries a blanket Amnesty by EO, or completely empties Gitmo?

He's recently said he relishes getting involved in the race, so he will be in there pushing things to extremes.

Also...we have to see if Hillary really is the candidate, or if she is taken out.

Posted by: Lizzy at June 07, 2016 12:44 PM (NOIQH)

159 >>>This race is wide open.
Posted by: zombie at June 07, 2016 12:42 PM (jBuUi)

Lol.

Posted by: Guy Who Lol's At Stupid Shit at June 07, 2016 12:44 PM (kiOZ8)

160
And people who consider themselves sophisticated -- people for whom a sense of sophistication is important to their self-evaluation -- aren't going to buy into this bozo.

I think that is a large part of what drives Donald Trump to win.He is a filthy rich real estate mogul in NYC and the wealthy sophisticate have refused him membership to their club.

Posted by: Flawless Male Logic at June 07, 2016 12:44 PM (lKyWE)

161 >>>139 A while ago, Ace wrote that Trump is doing horrible damage to opponents of illegal immigration, make the issue radioactive.

He's doing the exact same thing to meaningful discussions of Political Correctness. We NEED to talk about the damage PC does to the free exchange of ideas, but Trump has reduced it to an issue of whether one man - Trump - should be criticized for saying moronic things.

...

yeah he's not exactly Thomas Fucking Paine now is he?

Posted by: ace at June 07, 2016 12:44 PM (dciA+)

162 144 I know a way to get Trump the win... I'll back Hillary!... I haven't been right yet....
Posted by: donna at June 07, 2016 12:43 PM (O2RFr)

Me too.

HILLARY/ SYPHILIS 2016!
Pee the burn!

Posted by: @votermom at June 07, 2016 12:45 PM (7lVbc)

163
Who killed Kimbo?

Let me guess: Kimbo is another one of the Clinton Crime Family's victims.

Posted by: Bruce With a Wang! at June 07, 2016 12:45 PM (iQIUe)

164 Given Hillary's very questionable health status, can she truly endure the rigors of campaigning and the presidency?

That photo of Bill on last night's ONT was telling too... looks like tertiary syphilis finally caught up with him.

Posted by: Gran at June 07, 2016 12:45 PM (XIXhw)

165 103 >>>The shy Tory. It's been around for a while.

yeah that's about a 2.5% effect.

a real winning candidate, someone really changing mind, doesn't have #SecretVoters.

A real winning candidate has voters proud to declare their allegiance.

Posted by: ace

Not true. It can be a large percentage. You know about "The Bradley Effect" -- people pressured by pollsters to claim in public that they supported the black D candidate, when in fact the were going to vote R, but embarrassed to admit it.

Anyway, a 2.5% effect is HUGE in a national election. Easily enough to sway the entire outcome.

Posted by: zombie at June 07, 2016 12:46 PM (jBuUi)

166 If the GOP is to be the party of proudly ignorant white nationalism, then yeah...I'm out.

-------

Because Trump said, "Mexican?"

Posted by: Seems Legit at June 07, 2016 12:46 PM (U+nHb)

167 the whites who are dem voters tend be college educated and single women

Posted by: ace at June 07, 2016 12:43 PM (dciA+)

_____

And union members. That's 15%ish of the population. And while the union bosses will die fighting for Democrats, the rank and file aren't too high on illegals poring over the border unchecked.

Posted by: Monsieur Moo Moo at June 07, 2016 12:46 PM (0LHZx)

168 The GOP has been doing everything they can do to piss off the bases. The RNCe is all aboard for amnesty while 70% of the Party hate it.

They have relegated themselves to obscurity even while the Democrats field an unindicted felon that everybody, inlcuding the Democrats, hate.

We truly have no Party.

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at June 07, 2016 12:47 PM (mpXpK)

169 I'll just never understand why Amnesty had to be this thing that was so important to these people that they were willing to to blow up the GOP over it.
Maritime at June 07, 2016 12:41 PM

Because to them it is an easy answer to their problem of not winning the White House. You don't have to come up with an agenda for the middle and working class. You just have to give amnesty to illegals and Hispanics will vote for you. It's a fantasy solution to electoral problems that doesn't require much thought or sacrifice on their part. Plus they get cheap labor.

Posted by: Mark1971 at June 07, 2016 12:47 PM (vaR50)

170 I hope none of You are counting on a Hillary! indictment...

Posted by: donna at June 07, 2016 12:47 PM (O2RFr)

171
yeah he's not exactly Thomas Fucking Paine now is he?

Oh, Thomas Paine, another one of those out-of-touch establishment elitists.

Posted by: V the K at June 07, 2016 12:47 PM (O7MnT)

172 164
Given Hillary's very questionable health status, can she truly endure the rigors of campaigning and the presidency?

That photo of Bill on last night's ONT was telling too... looks like tertiary syphilis finally caught up with him.

Posted by: Gran at June 07, 2016 12:45 PM (XIXhw)
Don't worry, Huma will be there. Hillary will become the puppet, Huma the puppet master.

Posted by: Our Country is Screwed - PROUD LGBT - Loves Guns, Beer and Tatas at June 07, 2016 12:47 PM (jxbfJ)

173 The GOP is dead. They will stagger on for the midterms in 2018 and collapse before the 2020 election, which will be won by Hillary's reanimated corpse or a hand-picked successor to be named later.

There will be three and maybe four parties after 2020: A Conservative party that will win some House seats and maybe a Senate seat or two but will never win the presidency; whatever the mushy core of the GOP becomes; an outright Socialist party; and the Democrats, who will rule basically unopposed until the Socialists take complete power.

(Oh, and NATO will collapse when the Russians retake the Baltic states, but that's a gloomy vision of the apocalypse for later.)

Posted by: joncelli, A Stout, Nay, Gravitationally Enhanced Fellow at June 07, 2016 12:47 PM (Mt8T4)

174
"Jason" sounds like another phony seminar commenter.

Posted by: Misheard Lyrics Guy at June 07, 2016 12:47 PM (yG7Ca)

175 >> but he won't. You can't win an election when you're socially toxic to 25% of your would-be base.

Nordlinger and Kristol are not 25% of the base. I'm not sure if all of the Republicans who live in the big cities combined are 25% of the base.

Also, do you seriously contend that Trump is more socially toxic than George W. Chimpy McBusHitler? You were blogging back in the 2000s. People were putting on plays openly fantasizing about assassinating the guy.

Supporting Trump is perfectly socially acceptable in red areas of the country. In blue areas supporters will keep quiet, since Trump is Hitler, just like they kept quiet when Bush was Hitler and when Reagan was Hitler and when Nixon was Hitler. Dems have been calling Republican candidates Hitler literally since Dewey in 1948. Trump can't be any more Hitler.

Striking a high-falutin' sophisticated tone has never been key to Republican electoral success. It was also certainly not part of W's playbook. The pundits visibly abandoning the party now are leaving more over Trump's semi-isolationist foreign policy than tone, IMO.

Posted by: Jake (not officially a regular) at June 07, 2016 12:48 PM (1BdMd)

176 Primary: Between Trump and the (bowel)movement conservatives, I'll take Al Czervik over Judge Smails any day.

General: Between Bloomberg and DiBlasio, are you serious?

Posted by: furious at June 07, 2016 12:48 PM (8lw4l)

177 This same shit happened in 2010. Had these jackoffs played ball and taken one for the team, Harry Reid would have been defeated. So fuck them and their high horses.

Posted by: Monsieur Moo Moo at June 07, 2016 12:48 PM (0LHZx)

178 71 >>>24 Didn't the same shit happen in 1980? All the blue blood GOP types despised Reagan. Fuck all them.

Reagan was a genius, though. Those who called him "dumb" just disagreed with his conclusions.

Trump actually is an ignoramus and speaks in a stupid way. I support several of trump's ideas (to the extent he has them), but that doesn't mean they're not expressed in a low, crude manner.

Posted by: ace at June 07, 2016 12:32 PM (dciA+)

Buying into the "right people's" worldview a bit?

The message that Trump brings is about the relative importance of memes. The whole "accuracy" meme -- overrated. The "coherent" meme -- overdone. What's really important is the "pro-American" meme.

The anti-American crowd is reverting to their usual "stupid" and "evil" attacks. That you're giving them credence is evidence of how thoroughly embedded those attacks have become. But that's another meme that has lost importance.

Posted by: cthulhu at June 07, 2016 12:48 PM (EzgxV)

179 As for Mitt Romney I have never liked that RINO SOB.

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at June 07, 2016 12:48 PM (mpXpK)

180 "Jason" sounds like another phony seminar commenter.
Posted by: Misheard Lyrics Guy at June 07, 2016 12:47 PM (yG7Ca)

------

Ahhhhh, thank you, should have picked up on that.

Posted by: Seems Legit at June 07, 2016 12:48 PM (U+nHb)

181 We've got a terrible economy and a softball thrown to Trump with the latest job numbers. We've got the damning IG report on Hillary's email.

Where does Trump go?

The judge is a Mexican? Really? Who the fuck does that play to?

Is this showing his adept economic grasp? His command of executive presence? Or does it look buffoonish and made to play to the lowest common denominator?

Political bias in the judicial system is nothing new Trump. It's also not high on people's list of priorities. Not matter what pejoratives you preface it with.

Posted by: Marcus T at June 07, 2016 12:48 PM (O0lVq)

182 I hope none of You are counting on a Hillary! indictment...

Wouldn't you hate to be one of Trump Trumpity's (formerly Sean Hannity) kids right now, and have to put up with him constantly shuffling around the house muttering "The indictment is coming, the indictment is coming..."

Posted by: V the K at June 07, 2016 12:48 PM (O7MnT)

183 >>>> Posted by: Jason at June 07, 2016 12:44 PM (B+KeO)
----
Hi chemjeff! I knew you wouldn't leave.

Posted by: L, Elle at June 07, 2016 12:49 PM (6IPEM)

184 I think Trump continues to do some stupid things, but I do think people in the political space believes everyone else follows every gaffe as closely as they do.

Trump handled the Mexican judge situation poorly, but the people that really sit around and digest that story have long ago made up their mind how they're going to vote.

Posted by: Maritime at June 07, 2016 12:49 PM (qed1T)

185 Nordlinger once wrote of being embarrassed about the Clinton impeachment because it was simply about sex.

That kind of said it all for me about Jay Nordlinger.

Posted by: Kensington at June 07, 2016 12:49 PM (7Kbxu)

186 Nothing is fucked Dude. They are all just a bunch of fucking amatuers!

Posted by: Walter at June 07, 2016 12:49 PM (X/5o4)

187 Ace, you called this crack-up coming a LONG time ago. I know your reduced opinion of Drudge, but this is why there's only two go to sites for me any more from the "Right". Yours for the analysis and actual "thought" on politics and other interesting topics (eg. Prince, cats, cereal), and Drudge for being ahead of what will be news (let's face it, Drudge was behind Trump almost a year ago, not to mention the illegal immigration driver as being the cause of the phenomenon). Let the great realignment begin.

Posted by: Brad at June 07, 2016 12:49 PM (arypP)

188 How the hell did We end up like this?

Posted by: donna at June 07, 2016 12:50 PM (O2RFr)

189 If the GOP is to be the party of proudly ignorant white nationalism, then yeah...I'm out.

Posted by: Jason

Something tells me you already thought the GOP was indelibly racist to begin with.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at June 07, 2016 12:50 PM (p2X2f)

190 If you vote Hillary or sit out, you are passively accepting a slow bleed to socialism. You think McAwful's voting rights for felons is a one-off? You will see more. More amnesty, more Dem bloc voters. Obamacare set in stone or moving to universal coverage. Welfare state creep. Good luck with 2020. Even if the economy dumps, expect the MSM to cover.

Trump is a clown, but he's a chance. Otherwise may as well prep for the long slow stagnation and start hablabamos el espanol. Or Mandarin.

Posted by: Banana Splits Guy at June 07, 2016 12:50 PM (BRgcl)

191 The one strategy that could kill the Trump run would be for them to quit rioting outside his events with the Mexican flag while burning the American one. Short of that I don't know what would stop Trump but these types telling people not to vote for him is a net zero on the needle movement.

Posted by: Buzzsaw at June 07, 2016 12:50 PM (tf9Ne)

192 National divorce is probably inevitable, not just a matter of the political parties realigning.

Of course the last time we had a thread really go that way, with the socioeconomic and ethnic factors at work in that, I got banned, and I really like this new username and don't want to go that way again.

Posted by: Colonel Kurtz at June 07, 2016 12:50 PM (VrRpv)

193 Well, you are right about one thing, Ace..

"This is going to be a disaster."

No shit, Sherlock.. we've been Trumped.

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at June 07, 2016 12:50 PM (so+oy)

194 No matter who wins it's over and there's going to be big problems.

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at June 07, 2016 12:50 PM (4ErVI)

195 Verified Official NFL Twitter feed hacked. Guy declared Goodell dead. That stayed up for about 5 minutes then was removed. The hacker posted again a few minutes ago on NFL Twitter, mocking them as "amateur detectives".

Posted by: Lincolntf at June 07, 2016 12:50 PM (2cS/G)

196 I don't think Trump University had a Humanities Department.

Posted by: garrett at June 07, 2016 12:50 PM (I8Bd1)

197 I'd like to, one day, see some recognition that the disjoint might be about policy, that being tied to a somewhat repugnant person does not come with any policy payoff here, not for me.

I guess if The Fence is more important to you than, say, entitlement reform, you might be getting a reward for ordering this shitwich. Others disagree. Has nothing to do with class, how you people smell or the awful cars you drive. Poorly.

Posted by: spongeworthy at June 07, 2016 12:50 PM (mrfTe)

198 but he won't. You can't win an election when you're socially toxic to 25% of your would-be base.

You can't just give away 25%!

25% is serious. That's not 3% or 5%.

That's a fucking quarter!

Posted by: ace

But Ace, you're just pulling that number out of thin air. There is no confirmed "25%" of Republican voters embarrassed to vote for someone accused of racism. What confirmation do you have of that? And the number of people sick to death of racial politics, and/or who are vaguely racist, and/or just hate Hillary more than Trump, could easily be more than 25% combined. I could pull a number out of thin air too: "Look -- 30% of people hate Hillary more than they hate Trump!"

Polls are bullshit.

"The Pauline Kael effect" -- judging the national mood by assessing the mood of your personal social circle -- is also bullshit.

Get ready to be surprised.

Posted by: zombie at June 07, 2016 12:51 PM (jBuUi)

199 What's really important is the "pro-American" meme.

Posted by: cthulhu at June 07, 2016 12:48 PM (EzgxV)

Yeah, except for the fact that Trump has said he doesn't believe in American Exceptionalism. And has shown no concern for or knowledge of the founding principles of the nation. And loves the despot Putin.

Posted by: person at June 07, 2016 12:51 PM (mFkVC)

200 Supporting Trump is perfectly socially acceptable in red areas of the country. In blue areas supporters will keep quiet, since Trump is Hitler, just like they kept quiet when Bush was Hitler.

Posted by: Jake (not officially a regular) at June 07, 2016 12:48 PM (1BdMd)

______

Judging purely from my personal experience, I think you're wrong. In 2004, I was working in a super duper deep blue environment. And while I didn't walk around with a W 2004!! t-shirt, I also didn't keep my opinions about the election to myself. Today, I wouldn't say I support Trump around those same people.

Not sure if that says more about Trump or about the general political climate. But it's definitely different.

Posted by: Monsieur Moo Moo at June 07, 2016 12:51 PM (0LHZx)

201 I don't think Trump University had a Humanities Department.

Okay, I laughed... Thanks..

Posted by: donna at June 07, 2016 12:51 PM (O2RFr)

202 One day and 72 years after D-Day, when a bunch of young men fresh off the farm charged into enemy bullets...

We twitter in fear of losing if we vote for a vulgar and uncouth man.

Surely there must be some assurances of victory first!

#smh

Posted by: @votermom at June 07, 2016 12:51 PM (7lVbc)

203 11 I don't recall Bush ever raising Cain about the impending housing crisis.

----------------------------------------------

I do, he and McShitty both warned of a coming housing collapse and Bwarney Fwank stood up and said there was nothing wrong, it was all scare talk.

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at June 07, 2016 12:51 PM (mpXpK)

204
Ace, Ive been reading your blog since 1957. As a lifelong Reublican who loved George Bush and even that imbecile Reagan, I just cant bring myself to vote for a racist nazi like Trump.

Posted by: Misheard Lyrics Guy at June 07, 2016 12:51 PM (yG7Ca)

205 184
but the people that really sit around and digest that story have long ago made up their mind how they're going to vote.

Posted by: Maritime at June 07, 2016 12:49 PM (qed1T)
I think 80%-90% of Americans have made up their mind.

Posted by: Our Country is Screwed - PROUD LGBT - Loves Guns, Beer and Tatas at June 07, 2016 12:51 PM (jxbfJ)

206 >>I guess that's why it turns you off, if you say so.

>>I continue to not understand how "Leans Democratic in Political Outlook" became a RACIST SLUR in the past week.

It turns me off not so much because I am a delicate flower of virtue, although I am, but mostly because it 1) will help him lose 2) makes the topic toxic and closes the door for further discussion.

Forget the base, Trump is currently polling at around 20% with Hispanics. That's not just bad, it's historically bad as in no Republican Presidential candidate has ever done this poorly and let alone done this poorly and won. Continuing to just toss out Mexicans instead of talking about things like La Raza is only going to make it worse.

It also takes the La Raza issue off the table. We had the spectacle last week of violent protesters, many of them obviously Hispanic, waving Mexican flags, burning the US flag and causing damage and attacking Trump supporters. Trump could have leveraged all of this with his attack on the judge if he had just been a little more sophisticated in his tactics and words.

Instead we have spent the last couple of days with Trump on the defensive over his dumb comments. This isn't virtue signaling or ego or upper class snobbery, it's blowing an election.

It sucks that the msm is so in the tank for the left but they are. The rules are different for anyone who opposes the left. They demonized Romney, probably one of the most honorable men to run for that office in a long time over something as stupid as binders full of women. The will kill a guy like Trump.

The primary is over and the msm has now finished with giving Trump tens of millions of free advertising. Now they are moving into destroy mode. Happens every election but we've never had a guy like Trump who thinks he can say whatever he wants and win them over. He's wrong.

Posted by: JackStraw at June 07, 2016 12:52 PM (/tuJf)

207 136 yeah that's about a 2.5% effect.

a real winning candidate, someone really changing mind, doesn't have #SecretVoters.

A real winning candidate has voters proud to declare their allegiance.

Posted by: ace at June 07, 2016 12:38 PM (dciA+)

I dunno. Last weekend when I got together with some Dems and GOPes who bitched briefly about Trump, I didn't say a word. Call me cowardly, but I was outnumbered 10 to 1 and it was a gorgeous afternoon and I didn't want to get into a political brawl. So I sipped my drink and studied the horizon and got back into the conversation when someone started talking about his dog.

I'm still going to vote for Trump in November. I'm not happy about that. I'd rather vote for Cruz. That's one reason I'm keeping my mouth shut about him. I don't want to get into a battle defending a candidate I really don't like that much.

But my reluctant vote will count as much as the vote of a Trump true believer.

How many people are like me? Not crazy about The Donald, not willing to spend an hour screaming across a picnic table to defend myself from charges of being a racissssst - but willing to crawl over ground glass on election day to vote against Cankles.

Posted by: Donna and V. (sans ampersands at the present time) at June 07, 2016 12:52 PM (u0lmX)

208

I think this fear of losing social status is true for people who are Republican For A Living

for the pundit class

I suspect the rest will hold their nose, and vote for Trump, and lie about it

as for the others, voting democratic policies is what they have been doing for at least 15 years anyway

leave already

Posted by: ThunderB at June 07, 2016 12:52 PM (zOTsN)

209 >>Nothing is fucked Dude. They are all just a bunch of fucking amatuers!
Posted by: Walter at June 07, 2016 12:49 PM (X/5o4)

Her Life was in our hands, man!

Posted by: Dude at June 07, 2016 12:52 PM (I8Bd1)

210 To me the stupidest thing I hear is "Trump is too liberal, so I will support Hillary". I just can't wrap my head around this insanity.

Posted by: Monsieur Moo Moo at June 07, 2016 12:52 PM (0LHZx)

211 >>>Get ready to be surprised.
Posted by: zombie at June 07, 2016 12:51 PM (jBuUi)

Lol.

Posted by: Guy Who Lol's At Stupid Shit at June 07, 2016 12:52 PM (kiOZ8)

212 >>>I could feel this coming for a while, but it really crystallized last week, when Trump supporters were openly attacked in the street and the agents of the state permitted it, and conservative reaction was... muted to openly supportive of the attacks.

When you're that far gone emotionally -- when you can't even rouse a bit of fellow-feeling for people being attacked on the streets -- you have checked out of any kind of "relationship," be it personal or political.

This is such bullshit. I can only think of one "commentator" I saw online who behaved in such a way (it certainly wasn't me, I was outraged and said so volubly). It was Ben Howe. A minor name at best. Who else? Who am I missing? Or did you find one example and use it as a calque for the rest of this mythical class of people who excuse violence?

Posted by: Jeff B. at June 07, 2016 12:53 PM (ewYO6)

213 But I think revisionism is rampant in this... Prof. Hasegawa thinks the dropping of the atomic bombs to save American lives is a myth.

https://youtu.be/E7DQds1P6jg

Posted by: Anna Puma at June 07, 2016 12:43 PM (RbRGC)

Is this the "America dropped the A-bomb to keep Stalin out of the Pacific war" theory? There is nothing new here, some clown named Gar Aperowitz (sp?) tried to make a cottage industry out of this back in the 1980s, and all the lefties jumped on it like ants at an outdoor buffet.

It was a joke then, and has not improved with age.

Posted by: OregonMuse at June 07, 2016 12:53 PM (OxsRO)

214 Limbaugh's on vacation thru the end of November, so by that time we'll have forgotten his prediction.

Aren't we really talking about Soccer Moms (soccer Grandmas now)? That's really the Nordlinger demographic, the so-called centrist Boxer/Feinstein/Patty Murray bloc.

Not to live in the past, but the damage Bush II as President did to the GOP is still smoldering. Some of it was bad luck (2008 housing crisis and recession), but some of it was lack of political courage.

Posted by: Big Fat Meanie at June 07, 2016 12:53 PM (hqZPQ)

215

Yikes.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at June 07, 2016 12:53 PM (qCMvj)

216 Ace's post is pretty dour reading. But thinking about it, having >2 parties wouldn't be a bad thing - especially if coalitions are needed to rule. This could bring TRUE CONSERVATISM back and make sure our voices are heard.

True conservatism - not the Rubio / Mitt neo-neo-neo-con type.

Posted by: Our Country is Screwed - PROUD LGBT - Loves Guns, Beer and Tatas at June 07, 2016 12:53 PM (jxbfJ)

217 >>>But please stop complaining about the liberal bias of academia and intellectuals generally when you openly celebrate the most vulgar anti-intellectualism.

Yes, I "celebrate the most vulgar anti-intellectualism." That's me.

No, what I do is try to convince ninnies such as yourself that this is a TRANSACTIONAL MATTER ONLY, not a matter of self-worth, and that while it's NICE to have an avatar of your class aspirations in the office, it's not NECESSARY.

But apparently the "intellectuals" cannot understand the difference between a mere official in an public position and a culture warrior/cultural avatar and insist these positions must be filled by the same man --- we need both a Warrior King AND a High Priest in the same man.

But whatever, I understand now this fight is futile, and you will affirmatively fight for the college-educated-signalling hillary clinton.

Like I said, I give up.

Posted by: ace at June 07, 2016 12:53 PM (dciA+)

218 In which I discuss my most immediate hobby horse, which is far more polite than pole up my ass though the later is more accurate.

Can we stop acting as if the two party system is Constitutionally mandated?

Yes, yes, I know the historical antecedents and why we are where we are today vis a vis the two party system. But this notion that if the GOP and/or the Dems split up then somehow the Constitutional order is annihilated is errant nonsense, to say nothing of utter bullshit.

There is no Constitutional mandate that there only ever be two parties, so shall it be written, so shall it be done. I have no emotional qualms about the GOP dying. Why should I? The GOP was nothing more than a convenient shorthand for candidate supports more of my views than the candidate doesn't. Now that that is no longer the case, fine by me if the party splits. The same is true on the Dems side as well.

It's painful and terrible and awkward and nasty and all the things that grand changes are. But what it is not is some type of destruction of the Constitution.

Sigh. I tell me about the lube and I tell me. . . .

Posted by: alexthechick - All Your Parfait Is Belong To Me at June 07, 2016 12:53 PM (mf5HN)

219 The political-demographic shift is completing is all. Started during Reagan's era. No matter.

Posted by: Bigbys Cellphone at June 07, 2016 12:53 PM (jeVt0)

220 I would like to be a 30-something without a clue or a care in this world about all of this.

Wouldn't that be nice?

Posted by: the littl shyning man at June 07, 2016 12:54 PM (DIUuF)

221 i've long looked askance at the end of the 'smoked filled room". there's no inherent value in a candidate by virtue of popularity. sometimes the political insider can make a better informed choice,

Posted by: musical jolly chimp at June 07, 2016 12:54 PM (WTSFk)

222 The pundits visibly abandoning the party now are leaving more over Trump's semi-isolationist foreign policy than tone, IMO.
Posted by: Jake

To me, Trump is a sort of test run if Pat Buchanan had been the nominee.

Buchanan's "gaffes" were way overstated by this same crowd because ultimately they didn't like his platform. So he was called a racist, anti-semite because he said some incredibly innocous things like that AIPAC has too much influence in DC.

I tend to think if you had a "respectable" Republican running on the same platform, would the same people try and find a reason to sink them even though clearly rank and file Republicans embrace the message.

Posted by: Maritime at June 07, 2016 12:54 PM (qed1T)

223 >>> Posted by: Jason at June 07, 2016 12:44 PM (B+KeO)
----
Hi chemjeff! I knew you wouldn't leave.

Oh for funks sake!

Posted by: Misheard Lyrics Guy at June 07, 2016 12:54 PM (yG7Ca)

224 Oregon Muse, yup. To keep the Soviets out pipe dream

Posted by: Anna Puma at June 07, 2016 12:54 PM (RbRGC)

225 Dear Ace,

As a Professor in Social Justice I regret to inform you I shan't be perusing your electronic diary henceforth.

Oh, and RACIST!

Posted by: Herr Doctor New Guy at June 07, 2016 12:54 PM (p2X2f)

226 ACE - I implore you to post a link to VDH's appearance on the John Batchelor show last week. He talks about the NeverTrump crowd, Natl Review, Acela Corridor, etc. He renders JBS and Mary Kissel speechless. RADIO GOLD!

I don't know how to do that shorten link thing so just google John Batchelor Show Podcasts.

Posted by: Sid at June 07, 2016 12:30 PM (xYNyF)

-----------

Yeah, really good points by VDH. He is echoing a lot of Ace's arguments.

Link in signature.

Posted by: Serious Cat at June 07, 2016 12:54 PM (UypUQ)

227 So a bunch of pro-amnesty, pro-gay marriage, wall Street lovers are mad because conservative voters won't support their "liberal lite" candidates? Too fucking bad, assholes. I'm fine with the GOP being destroyed since all they've done is shit on their voting base, anyway. Funny as hell that Trump is being blamed, when the fact that people are tired of the GOP lying to them isn't even mentioned. Maybe if the Republicans had actually run a decent, true conservative candidate then some of us would've voted for him. Nope! Gotta run Jeb and Rubio, and shit all over Cruz, since Cruz is actually fairly conservative. You guys crying about Trump need to look into a fucking mirror and see who is really to blame for this mess. Decades of worthless candidates have brought us to where we are today, and blaming Trump, or calling his voters stupid, is yet another example of how out of touch you "national review" so called conservatives are. Save your crocodile tears because you've brought this on yourselves. I'll gladly vote Trump, and if he loses then I know who to blame.

Posted by: The Drizzle at June 07, 2016 12:54 PM (Ip9P1)

228 And I really, really, really want to kill all the Irish!

----

My favorite Trump plank.

Posted by: Bigbys Cellphone at June 07, 2016 12:54 PM (jeVt0)

229
103 >>>The shy Tory. It's been around for a while.

yeah that's about a 2.5% effect.

a real winning candidate, someone really changing mind, doesn't have #SecretVoters.

A real winning candidate has voters proud to declare their allegiance.

Posted by: ace at June 07, 2016 12:38 PM (dciA+)

And get assaulted while Police look on? To get spat on and pelted with eggs?

Posted by: cthulhu at June 07, 2016 12:55 PM (EzgxV)

230 >>But apparently the "intellectuals" cannot understand the difference between a mere official in an public position and a culture warrior/cultural avatar and insist these positions must be filled by the same man

What the Fuck?

Don't lump us in with the Humanities Professors!

Posted by: Intellectuals at June 07, 2016 12:55 PM (I8Bd1)

231 Trump is a clown, but he's a chance. Otherwise may as well prep for the long slow stagnation and start hablabamos el espanol. Or Mandarin.

If our only hope is a buffoon who can't act like a gawdam grown-up for two minutes when the most important job in the world is on the line... how is that different from having no hope at all?

Posted by: V the K at June 07, 2016 12:55 PM (O7MnT)

232 This may seem kinda off the wall, but I'm putting it out here anyway.

Why are we using 'class' as a descriptor like every Marxist in the world?

Someone could be poor as dirt, but a sophisticated thinker. Someone could be wealthy and throw their money and power around, but only have a rudimentary idea of the Federalist Papers.

That is where we always fall for the con -- using Marxist sociology to put us into our boxes for the Revolution. Please do not use 'class' as a defining term. For some reason, even now in the US, geography has more influence on voting patterns than the ephemeral 'class'.

Posted by: mustbequantum at June 07, 2016 12:55 PM (MIKMs)

233 When a political party gets mad at the voter for voting for their candidate, that party need a good edema. PIAPS is in the WH unless SMOD or a lightening strike hits her on a sunny day.

Posted by: auscolpyr at June 07, 2016 12:55 PM (Ht/4p)

234 Also, I think as Mark Penn pointed out, from a marketing perspective increasing your turnout is more vital than flipping voters, assuming a roughly equal split among parties.

Posted by: Big Fat Meanie at June 07, 2016 12:55 PM (hqZPQ)

235 The same people on the right scolding us about Trump, would all be telling us how we just have to support the GOP candidate, if they'd managed to get their establishment candidate the nomination. They gave us McShitty, and Rombley...why on earth would I listen to a word they have to say now?

Posted by: Sticky Wicket at June 07, 2016 12:55 PM (i2t8l)

236 220 I would like to be a 30-something without a clue or a care in this world about all of this.

Wouldn't that be nice?
Posted by: the littl shyning man at June 07, 2016 12:54 PM (DIUuF)

Make it 20-something and I'm sold.

Posted by: Insomniac at June 07, 2016 12:55 PM (DMWVF)

237 "The Uniparty Elites want to replace the white American middle class with
illiterate Third World peasants, as they are more tractable and do not
yammer on endlessly about silly 18th century anachronisms like
"constitutions" and "rights".

I USED to think this was black helicopter talk. The gope has been working for the last ten years to make me agree with it.

Posted by: Grad School Fool at June 07, 2016 12:55 PM (swEzU)

238 Does Trump lose more self identified "sophisticated" people than he gains "low-class" people? I dunno...I don't hang with too many "sophisticated" people, unless you consider typical upper middle class suburbanites sophisticated. But I come from more down trodden roots. And there are a hell of a lot of people from that set of my life circle, previous non voters or blue dog types, that were drawn to Trump like a moth to a flame.
Anecdotal I know...but so is most of this shit.

Posted by: ajmojo at June 07, 2016 12:55 PM (1H9ox)

239 The Democratic Party is 1-2 elections from doing the same thing. They aren't quite there yet, but soon. Plenty of discontent and anger, not enough frustration to be fed up yet.

The thing is, whoever wins, we lose. Its just a matter of how much we lose, not if. Trump at what his supporters think is his absolute best wouldn't be able to turn this thing around. Its too late.

I'm torn between wanting to slow the destruction down and getting it over with in a hurry with a sudden jerk of the bandage.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at June 07, 2016 12:55 PM (39g3+)

240 The Dems might split too.Bernie has all the love from the young socialists.

Posted by: steevy at June 07, 2016 12:55 PM (B48dK)

241 >>>
Can we stop acting as if the two party system is Constitutionally mandated?

it's structually mandated. there's no law that demands it, but the entire structure of the constitution requires it, in a subtle but inevitable way.

Given the first-past-the-post system, and that for every office, there can only be an IN FACTION (that faction currently in office) and an OUT FACTION (the faction not in office), the constitution basically dictates the two party system through it's structure.

structure is everything.

Posted by: ace at June 07, 2016 12:56 PM (dciA+)

242 Interesting:

IBD POLL NATIONAL:

Clinton vs Trump: Hillary +5

Clinton vs Trump vs Johnson Hillary +4

Johnson takes more votes from Dems than Reps? I find that hard to believe. But nothing about 2016 has been easy to believe.

Posted by: Monsieur Moo Moo at June 07, 2016 12:56 PM (0LHZx)

243 *refills the Empress' heroin injector*

At this point Chinatown makes more sense.

Posted by: Anna Puma at June 07, 2016 12:56 PM (RbRGC)

244 >>>> Posted by: Jeff B. at June 07, 2016 12:53 PM (ewYO6
-----
Maybe there weren't vocal defenses of the violence outside of Ben Howe, but there was noticeable silence on the subject by a class of people who make their living writing words and offering their expert opinion on everything political. Silence implies agreement.

Posted by: L, Elle at June 07, 2016 12:56 PM (6IPEM)

245 I do not believe in "winning". The very concept is meaningless to me.

Posted by: Jason at June 07, 2016 12:44 PM (B+KeO)

Hey, us too!

Posted by: The GOP at June 07, 2016 12:56 PM (uz/Pv)

246 Posted by: alexthechick - All Your Parfait Is Belong To Me at June 07, 2016 12:53 PM (mf5HN)

I'm not familiar with how congress works for party positions on committees and things. Would a Republican congressman be adversely affected if he changed his party affiliation to independent, and just caucused with R?

Posted by: joe, living dangerously at June 07, 2016 12:56 PM (KUaJL)

247 You know, you don't have to go full SJW to prove you're not Alt-Right, right? You can strike a more nuanced position than the liberal extreme.

I could feel this coming for a while, but it really crystallized last week, when Trump supporters were openly attacked in the street and the agents of the state permitted it, and conservative reaction was... muted to openly supportive of the attacks.

When you're that far gone emotionally -- when you can't even rouse a bit of fellow-feeling for people being attacked on the streets -- you have checked out of any kind of "relationship," be it personal or political.

People are still making excuses as to why they are talking nonstop about Trump's Judge and can't even talk about San Jose between breaths.

ALL of that

if they dont care about the San Jose attacks, then their claims to care about civility and democracy are all a lie

If they cared so much about civility and the coarseness of public discourse THEY should be OUTRAGED over San Jose

Posted by: ThunderB at June 07, 2016 12:57 PM (zOTsN)

248 >>>>The GOP is fracturing, alas, on class lines, permanently and irrevocably.
.
.
.
.
.Pretty bold statement there Ace. Not buying it though. These people will line up and vote for Trump because they know what hillary is capable of doing.

Posted by: The Great White Scotsman at June 07, 2016 12:57 PM (iONHu)

249 Some of us are tired as fuck of Republican candidates cowering in the corner and crying "please don't call me racist!" while the media dog piles them for nonsense reasons.

Posted by: The Drizzle at June 07, 2016 12:57 PM (Ip9P1)

250 I'm a conservative. That means I haven't had a representational political party in this goddamned country in 12 years. Like Limbaugh said in 2008, conservatism didn't lose presendential election, it just wasn't on the ticket.

Posted by: CrustyB at June 07, 2016 12:57 PM (GvSpB)

251 Can we stop acting as if the two party system is Constitutionally mandated?

Yes, yes, I know the historical antecedents and why we are where we are today vis a vis the two party system. But this notion that if the GOP and/or the Dems split up then somehow the Constitutional order is annihilated is errant nonsense, to say nothing of utter bullshit.

___________________

The problem is, the Dems will stay united and we'll be arguing amongst ourselves until we've become Venezuela.

The same thing basically happened in canada with the Conservative Party.

We all have very different visions about what a center-right party looks like and no one is willing to compromise. Had the GOP just been a no-amnesty party, most all of this could have been avoided.

Posted by: Maritime at June 07, 2016 12:57 PM (qed1T)

252 >>I hope none of You are counting on a Hillary! indictment...

Nah, just know that Obama has a habit of taking out political foes indirectly, on technicalities or getting others to kneecap them (like getting Ryan's seals custody docs unsealed). The Clintons are and will always be his political foes - each vying to head the party. Obama finding a way to take out Hillary so that he can hand-pick the nominee would not surprise me one bit - especially now that he's announced his stay in DC after leaving office.

Posted by: Lizzy at June 07, 2016 12:57 PM (NOIQH)

253 At the end of the day this isn't really about Trump. It's about Jeb/Rubio getting embarrassed, and all their supporters taking the ball and going home to sulk.

Posted by: Monsieur Moo Moo at June 07, 2016 12:57 PM (0LHZx)

254 btw, isn't the democratic party losing the middle class as well? their base is apparently socialists, immigrant poor and bureaucrats... and angry...? phew!

Posted by: musical jolly chimp at June 07, 2016 12:57 PM (WTSFk)

255 I submit that this is an over-reaction to Trump's having a bad week. He's had them before and recovered.

I also submit that voter demographics are in a jumble. Hillary's negatives are now higher than Trump's, per a recent Fox poll. Her Man Gap is bigger than Trump's Woman Gap, and growing. You can't predict Nov 2016 turnout accurately, certainly not this early, so polls are meaningless. The election will be determined as much by who stays home as who shows up.

The last week has been driven by many major media outlets doing a 180 on Trump and Hillary, the NBC properties especially. But Trump rules the New York Post, for example.

There are many Known Unknowns which will be determined between now and Nov. None of them favor Hillary. The state of the economy is one.

Posted by: Ignoramus at June 07, 2016 12:57 PM (r1fLd)

256 The Dems might split too.Bernie has all the love from the young socialists.

But once Hillary! has her coronation, the little brown shirts will either stay home or vote for Hillary ...

Posted by: donna at June 07, 2016 12:57 PM (O2RFr)

257

because hurting peoples feels demands more of a response than physically attacking the voters

Posted by: ThunderB at June 07, 2016 12:57 PM (zOTsN)

258 Every GOP nominee is "Literally Hitler" to the left. Trump is just "extra special Literally Hitler."

Posted by: brak at June 07, 2016 12:58 PM (MJuTN)

259 "And get assaulted while Police look on? To get spat on and pelted with eggs?"

Trump supporters need to start taking shotguns to the rallies.

The obligation of subjects to the sovereign is understood to last as long, and no longer, than the power lasteth by which he is able to protect them.
Thomas Hobbes

Posted by: Grad School Fool at June 07, 2016 12:58 PM (swEzU)

260 That IBD poll has Obama at the highest of all approval ratings among the major pollsters, against a backdrop of 27% Right Direction/68% Wrong Direction for the country. Seems a little skewed to the Dems. In June.

Posted by: Big Fat Meanie at June 07, 2016 12:58 PM (hqZPQ)

261 >>I do not believe in "winning". The very concept is meaningless to me.

Posted by: Jason at June 07, 2016 12:44 PM (B+KeO)

Preach it, Brother!

Posted by: Barack Hussein Obama at June 07, 2016 12:58 PM (I8Bd1)

262 129 >>>This is the problem with Trump. It's not that some of the stuff he says is completely wrong it's that he says stuff in such a clumsy and stupid way it turns a lot of people off. That doesn't make them liberal or virtue signalers. It makes them what we used to call normal people.

I guess that's why it turns you off, if you say so.

I continue to not understand how "Leans Democratic in Political Outlook" became a RACIST SLUR in the past week.

It's not one of the classic Racist Slurs I'm used to.

But we live in culture of "concept creep:"

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/04/concept-creep/477939/

Posted by: ace at June 07, 2016 12:41 PM (dciA+)

It's no wonder you see creeps everywhere if you're reading The Atlantic.

Posted by: cthulhu at June 07, 2016 12:58 PM (EzgxV)

263 253 At the end of the day this isn't really about Trump. It's about Jeb/Rubio getting embarrassed, and all their supporters taking the ball and going home to sulk.
Posted by: Monsieur Moo Moo at June 07, 2016 12:57 PM (0LHZx)
--------------------------------

Ted Cruz never existed.

Posted by: person at June 07, 2016 12:59 PM (mFkVC)

264 Explains it.

San Jose police chief who allowed mob attacks on Trump supporters is affiliated with La Raza

http://tinyurl.com/znkywjz

Posted by: RWC - Team BOHICA at June 07, 2016 12:59 PM (6TLl6)

265 The GOP is done.

This is the American party and there's a new sheriff in town and his name is Trump!

Sounds like ACE will be joining the expatriates...

Posted by: Gonzotx at June 07, 2016 12:59 PM (1a6lo)

266 At some point the line must be drawn with all your enemies on the other side. Only then can you take the calculus of relative strengths and weaknesses and plan accordingly.

Posted by: Grump928(C) Sexual Tyrannosaurus with an itch at June 07, 2016 12:59 PM (rwI+c)

267 I don't see why anyone would assume that refusal to vote for Trump is because of class loyalty or that someone is going liberal. Neither is true of me. Trump is a moral cretin and I will not be complicit in elevating him to the presidency. Same for Hillary--I don't want either on my conscience. Jay Nordlinger going liberal? He's a hard-core Cruz supporter for crying out loud.

Posted by: Raul Johnson at June 07, 2016 12:59 PM (MiBr0)

268 Hmmm. I am upper middle class in my behavior and value patterns. I am also an American nationalist.

I think it is the second one where I break with the Nordlingers and the Kristols and the Wills. No sensibilities or philosophies "trump" my national identity. That they have lost that is not my problem.

Posted by: *Mikey NTH - The Outrage Outlet carries Billy Kristol DIY Candidate Kits! at June 07, 2016 01:00 PM (hLRSq)

269 Ace you are additionally seized with an id�e fixe, reducing all political and ideological disagreements within the Republican Party and conservatism to "class" matters. Oh, you pay lip service to the idea that some people ("the good ones," I suppose) have intellectually cognizable and valid reasons for thinking Trump worse than Hillary from the Right side, but for the most part you think it's all about class preference.

It's a theory that has some purchase, I'd argue -- I won't dismiss it entirely, because I can see the merits -- but you push it upon EVERYONE, less as an explanatory theory than as a way to delegitimize their position ab initio. "I don't need to address the substance of your argument because it's received wisdom from your social class, and you think you're better than the masses, and I see through the charade." It's the death of any sort of discourse. It's bullshit.

Guess what? I hate Hillary -- far more than you ever will, regardless of your claims. But Trump, in my opinion at least, is even worse than that, even worse than one of the worst people to ever be a major politician in modern American history. I don't believe that because of "class," I believe that because I take my ideology seriously, and I assess differently than you. I can accept your difference of opinion as an honest one. You seem incapable of accepting ours. Instead, it's all just a variation on "you just want to be popular with your friends and the people you attend parties with."

Yes, I am a bit miffed about it.

Posted by: Jeff B. at June 07, 2016 01:00 PM (ewYO6)

270 So the Party looses the most Liberal part of the Party... rich Whites...

But gains the less affluent, but more numerous working Poor....

Hell.... even the Union membership is supporting Trump... even though the Union Leadership is not.

Posted by: Don Quixote at June 07, 2016 01:00 PM (qf6WZ)

271

Trump will be in Dallas, Houston and San Antonio next week

San Antonio could very well be another San Jose

expect the beatings to continue until morale improves

Posted by: ThunderB at June 07, 2016 01:00 PM (zOTsN)

272 At This Point... I'd bless the GOP just ignoring the voters and installing their own candidate as some kind of last-ditch attempt to keep the party intact with a compromise candidate of broad appeal.

But their are no compromise candidates of broad appeal.

Ace, why would you think this would somehow save the party???

Trump is the "fuck you GOP" vote. If the RINO's install their own person, it'll be someone the base supports? Ain't gonna happen. He'll be the RINO guy and it's just another way of telling the base to go to hell.

Installing their own guy just means the divorce happens faster and messier. At this point, I'm even ok with that.

Posted by: Blano at June 07, 2016 01:00 PM (lbcdD)

273 260 That IBD poll has Obama at the highest of all approval ratings among the major pollsters, against a backdrop of 27% Right Direction/68% Wrong Direction for the country. Seems a little skewed to the Dems. In June.
Posted by: Big Fat Meanie at June 07, 2016 12:58 PM (hqZPQ)

_____

That right track / wrong track has been 25/70 for years, and doesn't mean fuck all. In 2012 it was in that ballpark too and Obama easily won re-election. It's like the approval process for Congress is always at 10% and yet 90% of incumbents get re-elected every year.

Posted by: Monsieur Moo Moo at June 07, 2016 01:00 PM (0LHZx)

274 There's always 2020! or 24 or 30...

Posted by: donna at June 07, 2016 01:00 PM (O2RFr)

275 >>If they cared so much about civility and the coarseness of public discourse THEY should be OUTRAGED over San Jose

They may not agree with the tactics taken by the mostly peaceful protesters, but they will fight to the death to protect the mostly peaceful protesters rights to beat on Republican Voters.

Posted by: garrett at June 07, 2016 01:00 PM (I8Bd1)

276
I have read Ace since he was a zygote. For the first time in my life I will vote for a Demcrat because Trump is too racist.

Signed,
Sad Conservative

Posted by: Misheard Lyrics Guy at June 07, 2016 01:00 PM (yG7Ca)

277 Can we stop acting as if the two party system is Constitutionally mandated?

_________

It sort of is, had we had say a runoff type election structure, it could be different.

The person with the most votes can't win a Presidential election, it has to be a majority of Electoral votes or else it goes to the House of Representatives.

Everything is structured to be 51%.

Posted by: Maritime at June 07, 2016 01:00 PM (qed1T)

278 How many people are like me? Not crazy about The Donald, not willing to spend an hour screaming across a picnic table to defend myself from charges of being a racissssst - but willing to crawl over ground glass on election day to vote against Cankles.

Posted by: Donna and V. (sans ampersands at the present time) at June 07, 2016 12:52 PM (u0lmX)

Me for one. I voted for him because all the other opportunities were either too inept or too inept or too inept.

No one was left by the time my primary rolled around.

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at June 07, 2016 01:00 PM (4ErVI)

279 >>>
Maybe there weren't vocal defenses of the violence outside of Ben Howe, but there was noticeable silence on the subject by a class of people who make their living writing words and offering their expert opinion on everything political. Silence implies agreement.

yeah there was a lot of sitting on hands and a noticeable lack of emotion in the rote "this isn't great" twitter drive-by commentaries.

Posted by: ace at June 07, 2016 01:00 PM (dciA+)

280 Sigh. I tell me about the lube and I tell me. . . .
Posted by: alexthechick - All Your Parfait Is Belong To Me at June 07, 2016 12:53 PM (mf5HN)

[Stupid laugh] She said lube...

Posted by: Beavis (or is it Butthead?) at June 07, 2016 01:01 PM (Mt8T4)

281

This is what happens when it is time to LET IT BURN.

We think that it could happen in a pleasant wya, but the truth of a breakup is so much more nasty and personal, it's hard to prepare for. It will be unpredictable.

But if we're out to get these assholes in the GOP to wake up, they need to feel it, this is what this is. They asked for it.

Creative destruction, it brings golden opportunities, or dissolution and something like what happened to the music industry, no clear leadership.

This is where the idiot progs have it, they are bred to follow, the cons, not as much, but the David Brookses are sheep. They will literally vote for Hillary. Hell, there's not much difference in any regard from them!

It will be fun to watch.

Posted by: Rev Dr E Buzz The Main Dude My Man Esq at June 07, 2016 01:01 PM (mop5z)

282 I do not believe in "winning". The very concept is meaningless to me.
Posted by: Jason at June 07, 2016 12:44 PM

Which is why you're you, and I'm me.

Posted by: Charles S. X. McSheen at June 07, 2016 01:01 PM (qcIWB)

283 This is just the end product of the GOP's 'Fuck the Base' strategy of, oh, the last 10 years...

Posted by: Mr. Peebles at June 07, 2016 01:01 PM (uz/Pv)

284 Republican v. Democrat? WTF?

What we have in Washington, DC is the UniParty. And the UniParty's goals are not the same goals held by people not members of the UniParty.

The UniParty is all about enriching members of the UniParty by using the federal regulatory system to systematically loot the working people of this country and to payoff political donors.

I've been a lifelong Republican. My first vote was for Gerald Ford in the '76 general and until the 2012 meltdown, I thought I'd never write a paragraph like the one above. But I see no fight against Obama from Mitch McConnell or Paul Ryan, and Ryan was our party's 2012 VP nominee.

Yeah, Trump is crude and he puts his arguments forward in "crude" form. But he isn't talking to you, Ace, he's speaking to the hearts and minds of people who have never voted, people who feel disenfranchised, people who have given up hope in a a better future for their children. It's a direct appeal to the heart from a man who is willing to fight.

Posted by: mrp at June 07, 2016 01:01 PM (JBggj)

285 This is the American party Good and there's a new sheriff in town and his name is Trump! Less good.

Posted by: Grump928(C) Sexual Tyrannosaurus with an itch at June 07, 2016 01:01 PM (rwI+c)

286 All systems ultimately are two party, no matter how many alleged parties there are. they end up either being a faction in power, a faction opposing that with different ideas... or meaningless nobodies. Its just a question of whether you fracture the different elements of a party out into separate names or not.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at June 07, 2016 01:01 PM (39g3+)

287 This is the problem with Trump. It's not that some of the stuff he says is completely wrong it's that he says stuff in such a clumsy and stupid way it turns a lot of people off.

Everything I have heard that Trump 'said' I got it from the media.

Posted by: Wu Chu, King of Chu at June 07, 2016 01:01 PM (mT20P)

288 Actual, legitimate, not-leading-or-passive-aggressive question here - has Trump said anything about the San Jose riots?

Posted by: person at June 07, 2016 01:01 PM (mFkVC)

289 @JeffB check the tweet this responds to

https://twitter.com/FormerlyFormer/status/739514233805623298

Posted by: @votermom at June 07, 2016 01:02 PM (7lVbc)

290 Guess what? I hate Hillary -- far more than you ever will, regardless of your claims.

Posted by: Jeff B.

The presumption ... it burns.

Posted by: Herr Doctor New Guy at June 07, 2016 01:02 PM (p2X2f)

291 268 Hmmm. I am upper middle class in my behavior and value patterns. I am also an American nationalist.

____

Me too. I'm not sure when it became illegal to be well off, well educated **AND** love your country. Seems like you're only allowed to love your country if you make under $40K a year and/or didn't finish high school.

Who exactly made that rule? And fuck him/her.

Posted by: Monsieur Moo Moo at June 07, 2016 01:02 PM (0LHZx)

292 This show is such agitprop...

Japan's fear of Communism and the Soviets, not Nagasaki, is what forces the Emperor to surrender.

Posted by: Anna Puma at June 07, 2016 01:02 PM (RbRGC)

293 268 Hmmm. I am upper middle class in my behavior and value patterns. I am also an American nationalist.

I think it is the second one where I break with the Nordlingers and the Kristols and the Wills. No sensibilities or philosophies "trump" my national identity. That they have lost that is not my problem.

Posted by: *Mikey NTH - The Outrage Outlet carries Billy Kristol DIY Candidate Kits! at June 07, 2016 01:00 PM (hLRSq)

+1000

Posted by: Don Quixote at June 07, 2016 01:02 PM (qf6WZ)

294 If the election is truly lost, I just don't see the point in any further berating of Trump. Am I missing something?

Posted by: That guy who always says... at June 07, 2016 01:02 PM (Tyii7)

295 >>>This election is lost.

What? You're now channeling Harry Reid?

Posted by: New Phone at June 07, 2016 01:02 PM (QD9b6)

296 Soon, the whole country will be governed like California.
Except without the nice weather.
Welcome to Fresno! Lock your doors.

Posted by: wooga at June 07, 2016 01:02 PM (0+LRx)

297

remember the Alamo

San Antonio is La Raza's home town

Posted by: ThunderB at June 07, 2016 01:02 PM (zOTsN)

298 >>>Ace, why would you think this would somehow save the party???

um, I'm not pro-Trump. I am merely intensely anti-Hillary. I will do anything to stop her from being president. If trump looks like a loser -- and he increasingly does -- then i will support booting him out.

Except if they install a pro-amnesty Capital Class stooge.

Which is, of course, exactly what they'd do.

Posted by: ace at June 07, 2016 01:02 PM (dciA+)

299 >>>> San Jose police chief who allowed mob attacks on Trump supporters is affiliated with La Raza
http://tinyurl.com/znkywjz
Posted by: RWC - Team BOHICA at June 07,
------
Yup. Not surprised in the least.

Posted by: L, Elle at June 07, 2016 01:03 PM (6IPEM)

300 I am going to hole my nose and vote Trump, not because I support him as a conservative. A lot because I despise Hillary but the real reason, it's a stick in the eye to every on of those jackholes with an -R after their name, who sat on the hill and did not stand up and fight against everything the last 8 years wroght, INCLUDING the last to AG's...screw 'em. I see Ryan et al happier under Clinton, like they are under obozo, so my vote for Trump is my protest vote.

Posted by: Cu'Chuillain at June 07, 2016 01:03 PM (vmsda)

301 181 We've got a terrible economy and a softball thrown to Trump with the latest job numbers. We've got the damning IG report on Hillary's email.

Where does Trump go?

The judge is a Mexican? Really? Who the fuck does that play to?

Posted by: Marcus T at June 07, 2016 12:48 PM (O0lVq)

Trump is politically dumb and undisciplined. He got away with it in the primary bc he could steer the media narrative.

Saying ban all Muslims is way more controversial than saying your Mexican-American judge has it in for you, but the media is out for blood now. All of the GOP pols who got away with disavowing his comments in the primary and who were forced to endorse him as the nominee now are running scared to justify their endorsement. They don't have to any more than Democrat pols have to justify Hillary's criminality, but these people are so used to running scared for their political lives that they don't know how to just blow them off.

Posted by: Crrr6 (hotair refugee) at June 07, 2016 01:04 PM (s9KBB)

302 I don't feel much connected to anyone outside of my immediate family these days. I hate the GOP. I hate Trump. God knows I hate the left in general and the Donk Party in particular with the heat of a thousand suns. I hate the creeping trend of identity politics that's been flavoring the right - identity politics is uttrely corrosive, and it's what THEY do. I hate the PC pussies and the type of supposed conservatives who play their game. I hate the libertarians for being such purity obsessed witch hunters that I can't go along with them despite agreeing with them about 80-90% of the time. I hate that most Americans are apparently super thrilled about the expansion of state power, since all three remaining candidates are enthusiastic statists.

There just is very little to be optimistic about from a political/cultural standpoint.

Posted by: radar at June 07, 2016 01:04 PM (3z8GQ)

303 Posted by: Jeff B. at June 07, 2016 01:00 PM (ewYO6)

What is your definition of worse here? I mean, I don't think Ace accepts that someone could think that Trump is worse than Hillary, I'm having difficulty figuring out how myself.

By what metric does Trump rank lower than Hillary?

Posted by: joe, living dangerously at June 07, 2016 01:04 PM (KUaJL)

304 San Jose police chief who allowed mob attacks on Trump supporters is affiliated with La Raza

The lawyers advocacy group, or the totally unconnected rayciss group?

Posted by: rickb223 at June 07, 2016 01:04 PM (LwB8i)

305 "Didn't the same shit happen in 1980? All the blue blood GOP types despised Reagan. Fuck all them.

Posted by: Monsieur Moo Moo at June 07, 2016 12:25 PM (0LHZx) "

William F. Buckley loved Reagan, and you can't get any more blue blood than he was.

Posted by: broseidon king of the brocean at June 07, 2016 01:04 PM (kumBu)

306 and conservative reaction was... muted to openly supportive of the attacks

Greg Gutfeld did a good job of going the other way on one of his shorts for The Five. Basically taking on the media for always calling them "protestors" when they're really violent attackers.

Posted by: Stephen Price Blair at June 07, 2016 01:04 PM (2lndx)

307 I do and will blame the Jeb Bush crowd.

Posted by: Erb at June 07, 2016 01:04 PM (oFu2g)

308
Jeff B has a long track record of siding with Democrats [reluctantly, of course, of course] every time a Republican strays off the reservation and becomes the target of the media.

Posted by: Misheard Lyrics Guy at June 07, 2016 01:04 PM (yG7Ca)

309 I have read Ace since he was a zygote. For the first time in my life I will vote for a Demcrat because Trump is too racist.

Signed,
Sad Conservative

Posted by: Misheard Lyrics Guy at June 07, 2016 01:00 PM (yG7Ca)

If you're voting for Hillary, you're a fake conservative. Period.

Posted by: Blano at June 07, 2016 01:05 PM (lbcdD)

310 I think it is the second one where I break with the Nordlingers and the Kristols and the Wills. No sensibilities or philosophies "trump" my national identity. That they have lost that is not my problem.

Posted by: *Mikey NTH - The Outrage Outlet carries Billy Kristol DIY Candidate Kits! at June 07, 2016 01:00 PM (hLRSq)

You can't lose something you never had in the first place.

Their internationalism trumps (heh) everything else and always has.

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at June 07, 2016 01:05 PM (4ErVI)

311 What is your definition of worse here? I mean, I don't think Ace accepts that someone could think that Trump is worse than Hillary, I'm having difficulty figuring out how myself.

By what metric does Trump rank lower than Hillary?

Weight?

Posted by: rickb223 at June 07, 2016 01:05 PM (LwB8i)

312 There is a chance the Bradley effect might happen... I mean who wants to admit to backing Trump what with His "racist" and stupid remarks? When you're in the voting booth, no one can see your vote.... A lot of people are fed up..... Probably not enough but we shall see....

Posted by: donna at June 07, 2016 01:05 PM (O2RFr)

313 It's funny, I'm a former Democrat and kind of culturally liberal and I wouldn't vote for Hillary if you put a fucking gun to my head.

I'm pulling the lever for the Trump.

Posted by: Max Power at June 07, 2016 01:05 PM (QCc6B)

314 <<116
Hillary has chased Bernie to the extreme Left. Wait until your Upper
Middle Class wake up to find out who'll be made to pay the bill for an
experiment in Democratic Socialism.
Posted by: Ignoramus at June 07, 2016 12:39 PM (r1fLd)>>

There is not enough UMC at this point to make much of a difference. The GOPe and Democratic parties are the parties of the upper class and the poor. The middle class really has no voice in American politics anymore and unfortunately, they are shrinking as a political bloc into irrelevancy. In part because of economics, in part because liberals have convinced many to forget to vote based on principle or morals, but based on bullshit stuff like the color of their skin or gender.

Posted by: MacGruber at June 07, 2016 01:06 PM (FEAjO)

315 Right Track/Wrong Track was underwater but only 40-54 in Nov 2012 (after Obama got his Hurricane Sandy love).

It was 27-65 in Nov 2014 when the GOP crushed the Dems in the midterms. It's at that same number now even though gas is cheaper, stock market is up, and unemployment is down.

Posted by: Big Fat Meanie at June 07, 2016 01:06 PM (hqZPQ)

316 it's structually mandated. there's no law that demands it, but the entire structure of the constitution requires it, in a subtle but inevitable way.

Given the first-past-the-post system, and that for every office, there can only be an IN FACTION (that faction currently in office) and an OUT FACTION (the faction not in office), the constitution basically dictates the two party system through it's structure.

structure is everything.
Posted by: ace at June 07, 2016 12:56 PM (dciA+)

Shhhhhhhhhh. You aren't supposed to point out facts and what not contradicting my whinging.

That's Bander's job.

I disagree to an extent about structure in that the first past the post makes a two party system more efficient but that does not make the two party system necessary. Also I am speaking more to the position that some (oh the dreaded some) have espoused for years that doing away with the Dems and the GOP is somehow Constitutionally prohibited. It's not. It's just that another party will step in to fill the void KOFF WHIGS KOFF and we're back to there can be only two.

But. Yes. *grits teeth* You have good points.

Posted by: alexthechick - All Your Parfait Is Belong To Me at June 07, 2016 01:06 PM (mf5HN)

317 OF COURSE Hillary is worse. That is irrelevant. The issue is what is going to happen to the country because the GOP can't spare the support.

Posted by: Erb at June 07, 2016 01:06 PM (oFu2g)

318 JeffB is a Genesis fan.

I can't think of anything more condemning than that.

Posted by: garrett at June 07, 2016 01:06 PM (I8Bd1)

319 You can vote for Trump and maybe watch him win. Or Hillary will be the next president. That's really the only 2 possible outcomes. By about 2018 when the world has gone to hell and America is burned to hell, I hope all the NeverTrump people still have their pride standing in the bread lines or living in forests.

Posted by: Eli Cash at June 07, 2016 01:06 PM (a+WIL)

320 >>if you do this, you will lose this quarter of the party.

You can't lose something you never really had. Good riddance to expensive electoral ballast.

Posted by: General Zod at June 07, 2016 01:06 PM (Bdeb0)

321 It has become clear to me as I've aged that the political parties are not concerned with Americans.

They have done their best to fracture this country along as many lines as possible, going as far as hyphenating your label, with American being in the secondary position.

Yes, both parties, because the one I foolishly aligned with for so long was laughing at me behind my back, lying to my face, and going along with leftism at every step, only a little slower.

So, I no longer choose to associate with either political party, and try only to look at what would be best for America.

Given what I know of the two candidates, I believe Trump to be the better. That may make me an untermenchen, but I no longer give a rip what my self-annointed social betters think.

In fact, my Must Punch list is equal parts D and R.

Posted by: OneEyedJack at June 07, 2016 01:07 PM (kKHcp)

322

The RNC and the Political Commentariat, especially the Right-o-sphere were practically silent on the attacks in San Jose

yet they trip pver each other because Trumps judge might be biased. Never mind that bias is THE WHOLE POINT OF IDENTITY POLITICS

Posted by: ThunderB at June 07, 2016 01:07 PM (zOTsN)

323 Another thing. I think I speak for myself and others when I tell you I would be more likely to attend a Trump rally with a 2-foot piece of oak handrail to put upside the head of these sucker-punching pussies than vote for Trump. I assumed the tepid reporting was an effort to avoid an all-out throwdown, which I would welcome. Again, not alone in this.

Posted by: spongeworthy at June 07, 2016 01:07 PM (mrfTe)

324
131 I'll just never understand why Amnesty had to be this thing that was so important to these people that they were willing to to blow up the GOP over it.

--------------------------

Mickey Kaus wrote a column about that -- can't remember which one, too lazy to check -- but he listed all the possible reasons, struck them all down based on logic and empirical evidence, and came out scratching his head.

Posted by: iforgot at June 07, 2016 01:07 PM (pC96u)

325 >>.....- but willing to crawl over ground glass on election day to vote against Cankles.

I'm with you on that. Not a Trumpster - he makes me cringe most of the time, but then he'll say something so great, so normal yet no longer allowed to be uttered in public, such as defundng UN climate nonsense, treating Bergdahl and illegals better than vets, etc.. And he fights. Really fights. So...I am coming to terms with having to vote for him in November.

Posted by: Lizzy at June 07, 2016 01:07 PM (NOIQH)

326 Anecdotal but interesting....

I just voted here in Calif... as a registered independent I could not vote Repub, but could vote Dem...

so I marked my Ballot for Crazy Uncle Bernie....

Weird though.... even though I live in a Majority Hispanic town.... the only people at the polling place... voters OR poll workers... were either Black, or White... very odd....

Posted by: Don Quixote at June 07, 2016 01:08 PM (qf6WZ)

327 At This Point... I'd bless the GOP just ignoring the voters and
installing their own candidate as some kind of last-ditch attempt to
keep the party intact with a compromise candidate of broad appeal.

The GOP had their chance to do exactly that...with the primaries. They failed miserably. The time to offer up a candidate with broad appeal was over a year ago. They're not going to win back the support they're losing, by thumbing their upper crust noses at the base.

Posted by: Sticky Wicket at June 07, 2016 01:08 PM (i2t8l)

328 If the election is truly lost, I just don't see the point in any further berating of Trump. Am I missing something?
Posted by: That guy who always says

I feel the same way. I also think the idea of a "do over" would wreck things far worse.

I didn't vote Trump in the primary because I was afraid he would blow himself up, but I liked most of what he had to say and I think the GOP needed a realignment.

If Trump loses, my guess is it will be within spitting distance of what McCain and Romney finished. Yet somehow, nobody ever talked about how these nominees had permanently tainted the GOP.

Posted by: Maritime at June 07, 2016 01:08 PM (qed1T)

329 The GOP started the fire 7 1/2 years ago.....and now they are rolling around in the ash wailing and gnashing of teeth......and now it's our fault because we want to put out the fire boy scout style. Good riddance GOP...keep pissing on the ashes Donald !

Posted by: MrKnowItAll at June 07, 2016 01:08 PM (egzLR)

330 The lawyers advocacy group, or the totally unconnected rayciss group?>>>

No, the Italian Lawyer one.

Posted by: Buzzsaw at June 07, 2016 01:08 PM (tf9Ne)

331 Can we stop acting as if the two party system is Constitutionally mandated?

There is nothing about parties in the Constitution, as Your Voluptuousness knows full well.

It is however a fact of political science that the SMPD (single member plurality district, or "first past the post") scheme of elections leads to two parties.

Parliamentary governments and systems with proportional representation facilitate multiple parties. The scheme in which one guy (or xuy) wins in one district leads to two parties.

So we have a two party system. When one of them has to die, and one of them does now, a couple of splinter groups roam the wilderness for a while until one of them coalesces in a new coalition.

The GOP is dead. Long fuck the GOP.

Posted by: Bandersnatch at June 07, 2016 01:08 PM (1xUj/)

332 #269, if you think Hillary is better than Trump, then there is something deeply wrong with you and your worldview.

Yes Trump is awful (and I strongly dislike him), but Hillary is corrupt and tyranical. We know for a fact she will vigirously attack the 1st and 2nd amend in ways that will make us miss Obama. And that will just be the start.
You can take your miffed and shove it.

Posted by: Tilikum KAW at June 07, 2016 01:09 PM (0x/TW)

333 I'll probably still end up voting for Trump because, well I've held my nose and voted for long enough so why stop now?

I'd also like to challenge the #NeverTrump people to something akin to #NeverTrumpAlwaysLocal so that we could keep the GOP alive in the local elections.

Still I don't believe the GOP is entirely dead. The Dems didn't die from McGovern anymore than the GOP will die from Trump. The Dems didn't even become the hardcore extreme liberal party until much later. But it's basically a 'come to Jesus' time for the Republican party where those socially liberal, well educated people (which I guess I kinda am) will have to work with those socially conservative less educated to develop something akin to a legitimate power sharing.

I disagree with Ace only on the grounds that the socially liberal "we don't associate with them" crowd isn't going to gain power or gain much of what they want. They don't have power now, and the Dem train is running full speed from one insanity to the other. Say what you will about being socially liberal but I don't see many of them accepting the SJW 'outrage of the day' on a regular basis. The Trans Bathroom debacle? The upcoming 'gender must be whatever you feel like' BS? I don't see social liberal conservatives backing this crap and without the GOP they don't have the power to stop it or gain any of the 'conservative economic' things they're fighting for. Yes they'll get their open border....and? That's not they want.

After this election is lost (baring some kind of ridiculousness) the GOP can legitimately meet and decide how we go about fixing this. I think this is going to inspire some real soul searching and you'll see something change. The Tea Party was hijacked by the 'establishment' that wanted to keep its power. Trump is the middle finger throw the grenade at the establishment candidate. The Establishment and the Tea Party people are going to have to realize that until/unless they work together, neither will get what they want and the US is going to be Venezuela.

Posted by: Defector at June 07, 2016 01:09 PM (rLDM0)

334 trump very well may be politically inviable come november, but if he's still a contendah i expect he'll garner even ace's vote given the alternative and that he claims he will:

- rescind obama's executive orders.

- repeal obamacare.

- enforce immigration law.

- appoint a conservative justice.

Posted by: musical jolly chimp at June 07, 2016 01:09 PM (WTSFk)

335 The GOP is dead. Long fuck the GOP.

Better use Huma's Weiner for that...

Posted by: Anna Puma at June 07, 2016 01:09 PM (RbRGC)

336 Meh.

Nordlinger is an opera critic or whatever, and not to poohpooh high art, but, this isn't really a high art country.

If Trump isn't up to Nordlinger's pecksniffian standards, well, he had lots of other candidates to choose from. How'd they do?

Trump can beat Hillary. I don't think it is a foregone conclusion, but it is definitely possible. And if Nordlinger doesn't vote in NY, well, that isn't going to matter.

Posted by: blaster at June 07, 2016 01:09 PM (tewYv)

337 Posted by: JackStraw at June 07, 2016 12:26 PM (/tuJf)

Scott Adam's "support" for Hillary was for "fear of his physical safety".

Posted by: GMan at June 07, 2016 01:09 PM (sxq57)

338 296 Soon, the whole country will be governed like California.
Except without the nice weather.
Welcome to Fresno! Lock your doors.
Posted by: wooga at June 07, 2016 01:02 PM (0+LRx)

So, imagine living in Omaha and being governed as they are in California. Now imagine that it's late January. Can I offer you some Valu-Rite?

Posted by: joncelli, Hoping for An End to It All at June 07, 2016 01:09 PM (Mt8T4)

339 Why don't we just drop the fucking pretense of civility and let the shooting begin?

Posted by: Weasel at June 07, 2016 01:09 PM (6xtq3)

340 Did someone say 'jeff b'???
https://twitter.com/EmpireOfJeff/status/737807741851406336

Posted by: andycanuck at June 07, 2016 01:10 PM (PLnZs)

341 Ferrell is stepping away from the Reagan movie.

I would post a link but this comment system won't let me. TinyURL is annoying.

Posted by: JT at June 07, 2016 01:10 PM (yqvys)

342 I agree with ace's post, except i still think it's insane to for Taco Bowl to say that a judge should recuse himself because he's a Mexican. Amusingly, he does this while claiming that the Mexicans love him.

It's great that Taco Bowl got us all talking about the Mexicans and Trump U, instead of the State Dept IG report and the crappy jobs numbers.

Posted by: stace at June 07, 2016 01:10 PM (ozZau)

343 >>>
Mickey Kaus wrote a column about that -- can't remember which one, too lazy to check -- but he listed all the possible reasons, struck them all down based on logic and empirical evidence, and came out scratching his head.

it's a class thing. Seriously. For one thing, upper middle class professionals face very little competition from foreign imports (except in some limited areas -- in the university, in IT).

For another, the upper middle class has completely incorporated the Strong Form of the liberals' anti-"racism" agenda and considers it racist -- or at least very "ugly" (if they want to avoid the word racist, for political reasons) to ever say "No, we don't want further poor unskilled immigrants in a country with increasingly few jobs for the unskilled, plus a non-assimilation crisis."

To them, anything that disadvantages any non-white is inherently 'racist" even if racism has nothing to do with it -- which is, not conicidentally, the liberals' definition of racism too.

Posted by: ace at June 07, 2016 01:10 PM (dciA+)

344 Eh.

I've noticed in the #nevertrumpists a fairly pronounced streak of leftist thought patterns-

non-acceptance of reality and human behavior, blaming other people for them not getting what they want, everyone who disagrees with them is racist and on and on

I suspect that a lot, a lot, of so-called conservatives/neo-conservatives/ etc-

were merely Democrats/libtards who had enough common-sense after the events of 911 to hop to the Republican/'conservative' side of things over national defense and personal safety,

but never really challenged their own assumptions about everything else.

That's why they kept telling us...that the era of Reagan was dead

So, here we are. They want to be part of the cool kids again.

Not surprising. At. All.

Nationalism may be the only way to get back to constitutional conservatism, because

you have to value your country to want to preserve it's values.

However, notice that outside of racism for the left and nutcake #nevertrumps that the greatest sin an American can commit-

is national pride and patriotism.

Posted by: naturalfake at June 07, 2016 01:10 PM (0cMkb)

345

Bias is the whole point of identity politics of the left

it isnt racist to notice

Posted by: ThunderB at June 07, 2016 01:10 PM (zOTsN)

346 some of the commenters here remind me of the commenter who immediately switched sides on little green footballs. Some of you guys are just parroting the media talking points about Trump because you're mad that your sad-sack candidates were utterly repudiated by conservatives who are sick of your bullshit. You want to say "Trump is racist!" even after fucking LA Raza beat the fuck out of white Trump supporters? Go fuck yourselves.

Posted by: The Drizzle at June 07, 2016 01:10 PM (Ip9P1)

347 Fuck it dude. Let's go bowling.

Posted by: Walter at June 07, 2016 01:11 PM (X/5o4)

348 I always thought the liberals were insane to keep pushing the ego-defensive theory that, way back when, all the racists jumped from Dem to GOP and vice versa. It seemed implausible that large swaths of two parties would just switch sides in a single cycle.

Now...well...

Posted by: Tonic Dog at June 07, 2016 01:11 PM (CbsLH)

349 339
Why don't we just drop the fucking pretense of civility and let the shooting begin?

I would prefer to drop the pretense of civility and let the f___ing begin.

Posted by: Big Fat Meanie at June 07, 2016 01:11 PM (hqZPQ)

350 A Trump presidency would be the 2nd worst thing to happen to this country. No doubt about it.

Posted by: navybrat at June 07, 2016 01:11 PM (w7KSn)

351 Ted Cruz never existed.

I believe it's pronounced "Lyin' Canadian Ugly Wife Ted Whose Dad Killed JFK Cruz."

Posted by: V the K at June 07, 2016 01:11 PM (O7MnT)

352 By the by, the Cubs are on pace to win 116 games and the Indians are currently 2.5 games up in the Central.

Just.

You know.

Sayin'.

Posted by: alexthechick - All Your Parfait Is Belong To Me at June 07, 2016 01:11 PM (mf5HN)

353 On the class divide, the weirdest thing about this whole deal is reading completely clueless statements from people who I otherwise agree with about Trump. In a recent Weekly Standard, Jonathan V. Last wrote:

...as imperfect as Mitt Romney and John McCain were, they didn't prompt prominent Republicans to burn their party registration cards... The resistance to Trump from within the Republican party is a difference of kind, not degree.

Well, no. The resistance to Trump is a difference of kind only within your part of the party. Anyone hanging out on the rank-and-file blogs (like this one) could see people metaphorically burning their cards because of Romney.

And then the very smart Bill Kristol wrote:

Of course, putting together a serious independent campaign is a formidable task--but plenty of operatives and aides and donors and lawyers stand ready.

The operative-aide-donor-lawyer class is not going to make a serious independent campaign, because they're the problem that voters are reacting against.

Posted by: Stephen Price Blair at June 07, 2016 01:11 PM (2lndx)

354

David Brooks: loves Obama

Now, is he alone in that desire as a Republican? Hell no, even after all these years.

Posted by: Rev Dr E Buzz The Main Dude My Man Esq at June 07, 2016 01:11 PM (mop5z)

355 Ace -

Well there is a way to respond to those who care about their social status more than the country. For argument sake let us call Trump supporters - Jacksonian America.

When this country falls apart in the near future, and it will at the rate we are going, don't expect Jacksonian Americans to save those socially uptight "conservatives" from the leftist paradise part of the country they will be living in.

If they role over now, Jacksonians will not help them to keep their taxes low anymore, keep their property safe, or keep them from being lynched by the leftist inspired mob at their door. Don't expect Jacksonians to get too worked up if North Korea or some Jihadist group nukes some leftist paradise like San Francisco.

If that segment of the GOP, which I doubt is a quarter of the party but even if so, wants to go and become democrats, or become something else, I say go ahead. We need to know now so we don't have to rely on the "Italian army" to hold a important part of the line in battle.

As for the election being a disaster, it is not. It is a important eye opening event to show everyone where this country is, or even if it is a workable nation anymore. I would rather be with "brave buffoons", then be with "cowardly intellectuals". The buffoons have a chance of learning to be more intellectual, but it is harder to teach someone to be brave.

I can guarantee you one thing: Jacksonian America will be able to handle itself fine. They can fight for their freedom even if it comes to war, even if it becomes separate countries. However, I know those who are most upset with Trump do not have enough warriors among them to fight without Jacksonian help.

That help will not be coming if they bolt in a fit of PC sissy rage over Trump. Those over educated, upper class snobs can learn the hard way, like the upper class Romans would find out - Don't spit on the legions...

Posted by: William Eaton at June 07, 2016 01:11 PM (KhJh8)

356 I just voted here in Calif... as a registered independent I could not vote Repub, but could vote Dem...

Wait, what?

Posted by: OregonMuse at June 07, 2016 01:11 PM (OxsRO)

357 The GOPe, particularly in South Carolina, lost it by hanging on to the fantasy of Rubio, rather than backing Cruz early.

Anyone know how to unregister to vote?

Posted by: gm at June 07, 2016 01:12 PM (1BO47)

358 Oh, and Jerry Pournelle called it when he theorized the rise of a fusion party of GOP and Democrats that rules by panem et circensis and outright election fraud, with some splinter parties for show.

Posted by: joncelli, Hoping for An End to It All at June 07, 2016 01:12 PM (Mt8T4)

359 The defeatist talk is waaaaay premature. Trump is down 2 in the RCP polling. It's the beginning of June. There's still plenty of game to be played.

If you want to talk political skill, take a step back from the racist! outrage! of the moment, and think about this: Trump started out with 16 opponents and the entire party apparatus arrayed against him. He wrapped up the nomination by mid-May. Hillary had every structural advantage built in from the beginning and still hasn't put away an ancient socialist who had approximately zero name recognition at the beginning of the campaign.

Hillary has the media on her side, but she is fundamentally not good at politics. To claim at this point that Trump can't overcome a two point polling disadvantage because Kristol and Nordlinger don't like him is ridiculous.

Posted by: Jake (not officially a regular) at June 07, 2016 01:12 PM (1BdMd)

360 Neil Stevens (red state)
@preschool
June 5 7:46am
It's time we armed illegal aliens in self-defense against Trumpers

Can't find the original tweet - seems deleted

Posted by: @votermom at June 07, 2016 01:12 PM (7lVbc)

361 >>>I don't recall Bush ever raising Cain about the impending housing crisis.<<<

.
Other people do.

http://tinyurl.com/o5q2yjk

http://tinyurl.com/dbo9ss

Posted by: Javems at June 07, 2016 01:12 PM (yOqwj)

362
Mickey Kaus wrote a column about that -- can't remember which one, too lazy to check -- but he listed all the possible reasons, struck them all down based on logic and empirical evidence, and came out scratching his head.
Posted by: iforgot at June 07, 2016 01:07 PM (pC96u)
------------------

Oh, and while I'm on that:

What does the GOPe think is going to happen if "racist" Trump is elected? We're going to revert to slavery? To Jim Crow? ISIS will change its mind and attempt to attack us after all? WHAT?

Posted by: iforgot at June 07, 2016 01:12 PM (pC96u)

363 To those who claim they'll vote FOR Hillary rather than Trump;

Quit claiming to be conservative, or even an R.
You're not.
There is still a choice of not voting at all, and choosing to flip parties is not the choice of a "principled conservative".
It is poor quality trolling.

Posted by: OneEyedJack at June 07, 2016 01:13 PM (kKHcp)

364 The first mistake anyone makes is that Trump is unsophisticated. What if he's more sophisticated than you think and expresses it in a way you're not used to?

He does say things off the cuff that come out wrong sometimes given the filter that liberals and the liberal minded and the liberal trained have learned to use and apply.

His aim isn't the same aim that you have. You think he should be this or that or talk this or that way or appease this or that group.

I ask; Why?

So what if we lose a bunch of people who are reliably voting Democrat or at best support much of what Democrats want to do and have similar attitudes about speech, immigration "polite" engagement.

Trump is blunt. He says what he believes to be the truth and much of the time what he says resonates with a majority of the working class in this country.

The real question is whether there are more of the working class than of the talking class. The people who believe it's okay if what you think will work doesn't work, at least you're trying. And that it's more important to not offend anyone's sensibilities misplaced as they might be than to speak the truth and point out where there are problems being caused by them and ways to correct that.

Many are tired of Political Correctness. They see the damage done the stifling of free speech and even the stifling of the facts if they're not comfortable with those facts.

Many are tired of the politicians pandering to small isolated groups who happen to have gotten the media's attention and therefore have a louder voice out of proportion to their numbers.

Many are tired of the destruction of the working class and the sending of our economy overseas for others to be provided with wages that should be being paid to workers here. And on top of that, having these same countries refuse our goods to support their economies.

Many are tired of countries allowing their superfluous and in many cases useless population to migrate to the US costing that same working class money and making it less pleasant for their own children to be taught.

Many are tired of their children being taught lies and not being taught the country's history or even being told that the world's problems are all their fault.

Many are tired of supplying the necessities to everyone and receiving less and less in return.

And that's what they believe Trump will do something about.

He's already revealed the true colors of so many fakers and shown how biased so many are that they can't even hear the truth spoken and they riot.

Many of us are tired of seeing the country torn down and nothing better put in it's place. Because the people doing the tearing down want a subject population that does what it's told and doesn't try to better themselves.

They want to turn the US into a 3rd world nation while at the same time forcing the US into being the money tree for all the others.

Many are tired and have said; Enough.

Trump may be unsophisticated but then so are most working people and we're tired of nuanced crap that always seems to help someone else at our expense and usually someone who has come here to exploit our generosity.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That at June 07, 2016 01:13 PM (ECJ+C)

365 JeffB is a Genesis fan.

I can't think of anything more condemning than that.

Posted by: garrett at June 07, 2016 01:06 PM (I8Bd1)

I remember the first time I heard Peter Gabriel era Genesis, before I knew such a thing existed. I grew up in an era when Genesis was slick pablum for the most part, with an occasional ok song thrown in.

The Peter Gabriel stuff was exciting. Still is, even though a bit dated, occasionally overwrought.

What I find difficult, if not impossible to reconcile is anyone who is both a fan of Peter Gabriel era Genesis, and Phil Collins era Genesis.

I hate Phil Collins almost as much as I hate Eli... no, I can't say that either. I don't hate anybody as much as I hate Eli Manning. But I thought about it. Really, I hate Phil Collins.

Posted by: BurtTC at June 07, 2016 01:13 PM (TOk1P)

366 Posted by: Crrr6 (hotair refugee) at June 07, 2016 01:04 PM (s9KBB)

More so.... Trump has talked about the IG report...

He has talked about Hillary Emails...

But what the PRESS wants you to hear... what they put in the HEADLINES... is of course what they consider controversial...

The guy talks for at least a couple of hours every day.... you hear the 2 or 3 sentences the media WANTS you the hear...

Posted by: Don Quixote at June 07, 2016 01:13 PM (qf6WZ)

367 "No, we don't want further poor unskilled immigrants in a country with increasingly few jobs for the unskilled, plus a non-assimilation crisis."

I really can never wrap my head around this type of thinking. It is actually immoral to import labor while, at the same time, paying a portion of your population not to labor.

Posted by: no good deed at June 07, 2016 01:13 PM (9nt94)

368 Yeah hitting LD-60 here. So out.

Posted by: Anna Puma at June 07, 2016 01:13 PM (RbRGC)

369 >>By the by, the Cubs are on pace to win 116 games and the Indians are currently 2.5 games up in the Central.

Surely SMOD can't be far behind.

Posted by: garrett at June 07, 2016 01:13 PM (I8Bd1)

370 Ace, you keep attacking National Review for not denouncing the riot in San Jose. They denounced it in an editorial. That happened. Stop throwing false attacks at them.

Posted by: Roger Ailes' Cat at June 07, 2016 01:13 PM (Pm+du)

371

seriously

did La Raza "organize" the "protestors" in San Jose?

Posted by: ThunderB at June 07, 2016 01:13 PM (zOTsN)

372
I know, right?

Are you telling me we lost Peggy Noonan, andrew Sullivan, David Brooks, and Bill Buckley's kid Chris?!?!

/2008

Posted by: Misheard Lyrics Guy at June 07, 2016 01:14 PM (yG7Ca)

373 Not voting today. First time in decades. Done with this sham.

Posted by: gm at June 07, 2016 01:14 PM (1BO47)

374 352 By the by, the Cubs are on pace to win 116 games and the Indians are currently 2.5 games up in the Central.

Just.

You know.

Sayin'.

Posted by: alexthechick - All Your Parfait Is Belong To Me at June 07, 2016 01:11 PM (mf5HN)

Yeah, but the Cavs are getting eaten alive by Golden State, and the Browns think that RGIII will take them to the Super Bowl.

So all in all, I'd say it's a push.

Posted by: OregonMuse at June 07, 2016 01:14 PM (OxsRO)

375 >> the Indians are currently 2.5 games up in the Central.

how 'bout them Cavs?

Posted by: garrett at June 07, 2016 01:14 PM (I8Bd1)

376 Can't speak for Nordlinger, but my loathing of Trump has nothing to do with virtue signaling or loss of status concerns. As I've been saying I would, I'll vote for that sleazy, two-bit demagogue come November since he's the nominee of my party. I'll go in the booth, vote straight-ticket GOP as I've done for over 15 years now, and then quit the GOP and not look back.

I will say this, though: we were given a wide array of excellent choices this primary season. There were several real-deal conservatives among them. A few of these candidates--such as Walker and Perry--had stellar accomplishments behind them. Yet many of you went for Trump, anyway. Youchose Trump. I still can't believe it.

I'm going out on a limb here and predicting a Trump loss of historic proportions in November, a Reagan/Mondale-like blowout resulting in probable loss of the Senate and possible loss of the House.

I'm guessing when you say, 'Let It Burn!', 'It' means the other guy. Funny how things work out.

Posted by: troyriser at June 07, 2016 01:14 PM (UWlp+)

377 Posted by: Max Power
"313
It's funny, I'm a former Democrat and kind of culturally liberal and I
wouldn't vote for Hillary if you put a fucking gun to my head.

I'm pulling the lever for the Trump."

I'll chew on a toilet brush before I vote for the Lady MacBeth of Little Rock.

Posted by: furious at June 07, 2016 01:14 PM (8lw4l)

378 I'm upper middle class and my husband, myself and my two grown sons are voting Trump, so there are "some" and those "some" were the perpetual liberals in the GOP, the ones who always voted to fund PP, voted to let open borders happen, the ones who voted to allow the government fund every leftwing group there ever was. They weren't ever part of or running an opposition Party.

Posted by: JadedByPolitics at June 07, 2016 01:14 PM (jSlyo)

379 Neither party represents what they purport to represent, and they haven't for a long time. For years they have picked the issues, none of which were particularly important to the country generally speaking, and they have fired masses of people up by making mountains out of mole hills.

But they fucked up. They said they'd fix the mole hills and that would have been fairly easy, but instead they failed even at that and people started catching on.

And there's a good goddamned reason. They aren't in charge. They can't be. The bureaucracy has gotten too big of D.C. to manage and if the technocrats who are in charge, don't give the politicians explicit, detailed instructions, the politicians don't have a clue what to do.

I'll go back to my corner now.

Posted by: Mr Macca Bean at June 07, 2016 01:14 PM (4ng05)

380 ace,

Do you have a Netflix subscription?

Watch "Holy Ghost".

There is a whole other world out there.

Posted by: Grampa Jimbo at June 07, 2016 01:14 PM (1ijHg)

381 The idea that 'illegal immigration and PC culture need to be fought but that this icky Trump isn't the right guy to do it' is the same as saying we need to keep our powder dry for the next fight, the perfect fight, the decisive engagement that the Japanese were always looking for in the Pacific. It never happened. They lost. They let the perfect be the enemy of the good. Or adequate. Or grotesque, as the case may be.

Trump is blasting giant inarticulate holes in narratives that were sacrosanct even a year ago. He's rude and crude and an ass, but that's the only person who could possibly have done so. Only an unrepentant ego maniac would have the balls. Take his lead. Fight. Don't apologize. Republicans and righties are so afraid of their own shadow they won't even stand up for themselves. He's aligned with conservative principles, or at least as aligned as we are going to get, and he's doing us the favor of showing that some subjects can be discussed, social consequences be damned.

"He won't really build a wall, it's all talk." Who cares? Fight. The issue is on the table now, fight fight FIGHT.

"He's really a stealth liberal." Oh yeah? With that mouth? Please.

"He used to support democrats and their causes." So did Reagan.

Trump gave us an opening. Take it. I've never had so much fun in an election cycle, and there's a whole generation of people who are waking up and fighting back. Like ace said of the gamers, when you've turned someone into a social pariah they have nothing left to lose. Have fun, laugh, be open about what you believe, use Trump's excess to move the conversation. Show others they aren't alone. FIGHT.

And if he loses, go down fighting and know that you did all you could, and you kept the flame alive and you spread the flame. Show them that only a bullet will stop you from preaching the gospel of American values.

Posted by: Alex #11 at June 07, 2016 01:14 PM (EUMt/)

382 Still I don't believe the GOP is entirely dead. The Dems didn't die from McGovern anymore than the GOP will die from Trump.
Posted by: Defector
__________

It's a good point.

Democrats had been wiped out election after election, twice the lost 49 states in just a few year span yet how come their tribe stayed together?

And the latest polls show Hillary and Trump within the margin of error, but that means the end of the GOP because a few NeoCons that most people had forgotten say so?

Guess what? 70% of Hispanics voted for Michael Dukakis after Reagan passed an Amnesty. That's pretty much the way it;s going to be for a long time, so Trump clumsily calling a La Raza judge out isn't going to do much to that dynamic.

Posted by: Maritime at June 07, 2016 01:15 PM (qed1T)

383 "This is going to be a disaster. I think maybe it's the wisest, best course to not get too hung up on horserace/story of the day crap, and maybe start focusing on long-term positioning and hashing out actual philosophy -- what we'd like a party, optimally, to be.

This election is lost."

This is why it is important for conservatives and similar to stop focusing on getting their guy elected and spend that energy on helping people understand how the basic conservative approach is better for the individual than the saccharine that the left is selling them. Grow the base and the politics will take care of itself.

Posted by: WTP at June 07, 2016 01:15 PM (F26eZ)

384 >>It is actually immoral to import labor while, at the same time, paying a portion of your population not to labor.

Not if you let Nancy Pelosi do the Math.

Posted by: garrett at June 07, 2016 01:15 PM (I8Bd1)

385 If they role over now, Jacksonians will not help them to keep their taxes low anymore, keep their property safe, or keep them from being lynched by the leftist inspired mob at their door. Don't expect Jacksonians to get too worked up if North Korea or some Jihadist group nukes some leftist paradise like San Francisco.

Posted by: William Eaton at June 07, 2016 01:11 PM (KhJh

That's my position already.

If Iran nukes New York City and Washington, why is that a bad thing?

Posted by: Blano at June 07, 2016 01:15 PM (lbcdD)

386 Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That at June 07, 2016 01:13 PM (ECJ+C)

*blows whistle*

*throws flag*

That's 15 yard penalty and loss of down for intentional use of reason, insight into human nature and egregious lack of name calling.

Next violation will be a yellow card with 5 minutes in the penalty box so you can feel shame.

Posted by: alexthechick - All Your Parfait Is Belong To Me at June 07, 2016 01:16 PM (mf5HN)

387 287 This is the problem with Trump. It's not that some of the stuff he says is completely wrong it's that he says stuff in such a clumsy and stupid way it turns a lot of people off.

Everything I have heard that Trump 'said' I got it from the media.

Posted by: Wu Chu, King of Chu at June 07, 2016 01:01 PM (mT20P)

......who are a notoriously biased tribe of shitweasels.....

Posted by: cthulhu at June 07, 2016 01:16 PM (EzgxV)

388 I'm really tired of the "Let X die" "burn it down" statements. It's similar to silly statements about "moving on" from religious voters. Those people aren't dead and you can't "leave" them (unless literally talking about disenfranchisement). They are going to vote for somebody.

Posted by: JT at June 07, 2016 01:16 PM (yqvys)

389 356 I just voted here in Calif... as a registered independent I could not vote Repub, but could vote Dem...

Wait, what?

Posted by: OregonMuse at June 07, 2016 01:11 PM (OxsRO)

Calif rules.... pretty silly.... but the parties get to choose who votes in their primaries..

This year the Repubs had a closed Primary... Dems had an open Primary....

So, as a registered independent, I could vote in the Dem Primary, but not the Repub.

Posted by: Don Quixote at June 07, 2016 01:16 PM (qf6WZ)

390 I would like to see some data to back up these assertions.

There is myth circulating in the sub-tribe of writers and party insiders that only the lower classes of the right are Trump supporters. They imagine that the more educated and informed (as they see themselves) are against someone so vulgar and crude.

Of course, no facts have ever backed this up.

This wild hysteria evolves from the fear of this media/party elite sub-tribe losing its power. They imagine that there are millions of upper middle class people who naturally support the defenders of the status quo, such as themselves.

They can't believe that Trump might appeal to business owners, upper managers, professionals and investors that frequent the same restaurants and parties they go to.

Because they're blind and stupid.

The media/party elite bubble is thick and all encompassing. Those inside have no idea how isolated and wrong they are when it comes to politics.

Just go back and list the ones who gave Trump a chance at winning the nomination.

Pretty short list, eh?

Jay Nordlinger needs to go fuck himself. He, along with the vast majority of the right-wing print/digital media couldn't find their ass with both hands.

Posted by: jwest at June 07, 2016 01:16 PM (Zs4uk)

391 It's great that Taco Bowl got us all talking about the Mexicans and
Trump U, instead of the State Dept IG report and the crappy jobs
numbers.
==========

I'm pretty sure that D Trump would enjoy discussing job numbers and the State Department's IG report. But the MSM is a DNC operation.

Also, Trump's move is to discredit the Trump U. controversy. I think he's succeeding at doing that. I think the last two weeks have been all about California and the Hillary-Bernie fight. Let's see what happens after tonight.

Posted by: mrp at June 07, 2016 01:16 PM (JBggj)

392 >>>
I hate Phil Collins almost as much as I hate Eli... no, I can't say that either. I don't hate anybody as much as I hate Eli Manning. But I thought about it. Really, I hate Phil Collins.
Posted by: BurtTC at June 07, 2016 01:13 PM (TOk1P)>>>

I like Peter Gabriel better than Phil Collins, but like both. But hate Eli with the power of a thousand suns.

Posted by: gm at June 07, 2016 01:16 PM (1BO47)

393 I believe it's pronounced "Lyin' Canadian Ugly Wife Ted Whose Dad Killed JFK Cruz."

Posted by: V the K at June 07, 2016 01:11 PM (O7MnT)

It's pronounced "Executive overreach supporting, and TPP authoring pustule of a candidate who did everything in his power to ensure that TPP succeeded".

Posted by: Sticky Wicket at June 07, 2016 01:16 PM (i2t8l)

394 I suspect that a lot, a lot, of so-called conservatives/neo-conservatives/ etc-

were merely Democrats/libtards who had enough common-sense after the events of 911 to hop to the Republican/'conservative' side of things over national defense and personal safety,

but never really challenged their own assumptions about everything else.

I would have to personally agree with much of that, for what it's worth. Which ain't much...

Posted by: That guy who always says... at June 07, 2016 01:16 PM (Tyii7)

395 "The GOP is dead. Long fuck the GOP.

Posted by: Bandersnatch at June 07, 2016 01:08 PM (1xUj/) "

When the Whigs died, the GOP were already competitive in national elections by the next cycle. And that was in a world with horses and buggies and the telegraph. I have no doubts that if the GOP were to truly die, the new party would be competitive by 2018. But the GOP won't die quickly - its death throes will be long and excruciating.

Posted by: broseidon king of the brocean at June 07, 2016 01:16 PM (kumBu)

396 I suspect that a lot, a lot, of so-called conservatives/neo-conservatives/ etc-

were merely Democrats/libtards who had enough common-sense after the events of 911 to hop to the Republican/'conservative' side of things over national defense and personal safety,

but never really challenged their own assumptions about everything else.
............
OK.. so now, if you criticize Trump, you're a closet Democrat.. I was wondering when it would come to this..

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at June 07, 2016 01:17 PM (so+oy)

397 The lawyers advocacy group, or the totally unconnected rayciss group?

Posted by: rickb223 at June 07, 2016 01:04 PM (LwB8i)

'La Raza Roundtable brings together community organizations, community leaders, elected officials, private and public sector representatives in leadership capacities that can impact positive change for La Raza.'

Posted by: RWC - Team BOHICA at June 07, 2016 01:17 PM (6TLl6)

398 It's not Trump's racist take on this judge thing. It's his utter stupidity in how to argue it.

That, and his failure to mount an attack based on what happened in San Jose.

He's got no depth at all. None.

Posted by: the littl shyning man at June 07, 2016 01:17 PM (JIqJx)

399 "I don't see why anyone would assume that refusal to vote for Trump is because of class loyalty or that someone is going liberal. Neither is true of me."

Not true of me, either.

And Fuck the GOP.

Posted by: Cloyd Freud, Unemployed at June 07, 2016 01:17 PM (ZEzaq)

400 Democrats had been wiped out election after election, twice the lost 49 states in just a few year span yet how come their tribe stayed together?

The left is a tribe. The right really isn't. The right is mostly (and has always mostly been) those who are not left.

Posted by: Stephen Price Blair at June 07, 2016 01:17 PM (2lndx)

401

Third party... hmmm....

POTUS? Gary Sinise
VP? Robert Downey Jr. in his Iron Man suit

VP alternatives?

Dwayne Johnson (The Rock)
James Earl Jones' voice
Denzel Washington
Buffy the Vampire Slayer
Vince Vaughn (because he's so BIG)
Robert Duvall (but only in The Godfather role)

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at June 07, 2016 01:18 PM (qCMvj)

402 Posted by: alexthechick - All Your Parfait Is Belong To Me at June 07, 2016 01:11 PM (mf5HN)

Yeah, but the Cavs are getting eaten alive by Golden State, and the Browns think that RGIII will take them to the Super Bowl.

So all in all, I'd say it's a push.

Posted by: OregonMuse at June 07, 2016 01:14 PM (OxsRO)

And if you are a Cubs fan, don't you have to be wondering if the Jake Arrieta era is coming to a close? Where did the guy come from? What kind of deal with the devil did he make to be suddenly catapulted to not just the greatest pitcher of his day, but possibly of all time?

Certainly one can't think that's the Lord's work. This is the Cubs, after all.

Posted by: BurtTC at June 07, 2016 01:18 PM (TOk1P)

403 Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That at June 07, 2016 01:13 PM (ECJ+C)

Damn good comment.

Posted by: jwest at June 07, 2016 01:18 PM (Zs4uk)

404 By the by, the Cubs are on pace to win 116 games and the Indians are currently 2.5 games up in the Central.

Surely SMOD can't be far behind.

Posted by: garrett at June 07, 2016 01:13 PM (I8Bd1)

Nah, if the Cubs win 100+ they'll get swept in the playoffs. You heard it here first.

Posted by: Blano at June 07, 2016 01:18 PM (lbcdD)

405 Trump supporters need to start taking shotguns to the rallies.

----

Emotional support dobermans

Posted by: Bigbys Cellphone at June 07, 2016 01:18 PM (jeVt0)

406 There's gonna be lots of divorces.

For example, lots of union workers are sick of illegal immigration and will vote for Trump. The same for people who feel like they now have to apologize for being white.

A major realignment of party values has been in the making for years. Obama and the donor class have brought the pustule to a head. It's time to lance it.

As for those leaving:

Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.

Posted by: Horatio Alger Hiss at June 07, 2016 01:19 PM (RcpcZ)

407 The GOP has been peeing on our rug for over 8 years and ignored lines drawn in the sand.

All Americans are pissed off and begin to push back, and the cluster B personality types in the government and the upper middle class are crying and scared because they have been exposed as the compulsive lying rug peeing frauds that they are.

Posted by: Coen Brithers at June 07, 2016 01:19 PM (X/5o4)

408 Can't speak for Nordlinger, but my loathing of Trump has nothing to do with virtue signaling or loss of status concerns.

It really has to do with how Trump has consistently demonstrated bad judgment and a lack of honor.

BTW, you do know Trump endorsed Renee Ellmers, right?

Posted by: V the K at June 07, 2016 01:19 PM (O7MnT)

409 Also, Trump's move is to discredit the Trump U. controversy. I think he's succeeding at doing that. I think the last two weeks have been all about California and the Hillary-Bernie fight. Let's see what happens after tonight.
Posted by: mrp
............
WTF world do you live in? Do you fucking watch TV? the news?
Not a single Republican - trump supporter or not - can appear in public without being attacked with this mexican judge comments from Trump bullshit.
It must be nice to live in your world..

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at June 07, 2016 01:19 PM (so+oy)

410 "You know.

Sayin'.

Posted by: alexthechick - All Your Parfait Is Belong To Me at June 07, 2016 01:11 PM (mf5HN) "

Don't jinx it! The Cubs-Indians WS is going to be riot-tastic. Whatever is left of Cleveland after the Cavs lose the Finals and the RNC is going to be nice and crispy come late October.

Posted by: broseidon king of the brocean at June 07, 2016 01:19 PM (kumBu)

411 That, and his failure to mount an attack based on what happened in San Jose.

He's got no depth at all. None.
Posted by: the littl shyning man at June 07, 2016 01:17 PM (JIqJx)
----------------------

Again, I ask with sincerity - what has Trump said about San Jose?

Posted by: person at June 07, 2016 01:19 PM (mFkVC)

412 I hate Phil Collins almost as much as I hate Eli...
no, I can't say that either. I don't hate anybody as much as I hate Eli
Manning. But I thought about it. Really, I hate Phil Collins.

Posted by: BurtTC at June 07, 2016 01:13 PM (TOk1P)>>>

I like Peter Gabriel better than Phil Collins, but like both. But hate Eli with the power of a thousand suns.

Posted by: gm at June 07, 2016 01:16 PM (1BO47)

You are two-thirds right then. I shall only condemn you, 33%.

Posted by: BurtTC at June 07, 2016 01:20 PM (TOk1P)

413 In fact, my Must Punch list is equal parts D and R.

My R list is longer. I expect treason from my enemy. I DO NOT expect it from my allies.

Posted by: rickb223 at June 07, 2016 01:20 PM (LwB8i)

414 Shorter Nordlinger:
- Although he hasn't yet, he intends to revoke his GOP affiliation
- He won't vote Democrat
- He won't vote Trump

As to what he will do with the non-Trump races: doesn't say.

Even shorter Nordlinger: #neverTrump

Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at June 07, 2016 01:20 PM (R+30W)

415 San Antonio could very well be another San Jose

expect the beatings to continue until morale improves
Posted by: ThunderB at June 07, 2016 01:00 PM (zOTsN)

I could be wrong, but I doubt that because we're one of the only cities in which crime goes down when our team wins the championship.

We don't do riots. We do parties. Big ones. We have the second biggest festival in the country after Mardi Gras, and everyone gets along great. There will probably be protesters, but violence is unlikely. Our cops know how to do huge events and let everyone have fun without getting out of hand.

Posted by: stace at June 07, 2016 01:20 PM (ozZau)

416 So, as a registered independent, I could vote in the Dem Primary, but not the Repub.
Posted by: Don Quixote at June 07, 2016 01:16 PM (qf6WZ)

Oh, OK. It sounded to me like the CA Democrats were so in control of the election machinery that they could dictate who could vote for who when.

Restricting a Republican primary to Republican voters is actually a good thing.

I'll have to save my sputtering outrage for something else.

Posted by: OregonMuse at June 07, 2016 01:20 PM (OxsRO)

417 As pointed out several times Dems survived getting seriously trounced at the polls more than once. The GOP survived Goldwater's loss and then won the next two Presidential races in landslides.

Parties can survive bad candidates - if that is what people are worried about with Trump, then its okay.

But a party can't survive this kind of schism. The GOP didn't proclaim Goldwater to be the end of life as we know it even though they thought he would lose badly. This reaction to Trump is really stupidity.

Posted by: blaster at June 07, 2016 01:20 PM (tewYv)

418 By about 2018 when the world has gone to hell and America is burned to hell, I hope all the NeverTrump people still have their pride standing in the bread lines or living in forests.
Posted by: Eli Cash at June 07, 2016 01:06 PM (a+WIL)

____

In the camps, I'm going to insist we put a NR on their shirts, underneath the C.

Posted by: Monsieur Moo Moo at June 07, 2016 01:20 PM (0LHZx)

419 I'd like to hear anecdotes.

Does the Horde know of anyone that is a reliable Republican voter that will either be voting Hillary or 3rd party over the Trump nomination?

I know FAR more people that aren't politically engaged that are excited about Trump than I saw for Romney.

Posted by: Maritime at June 07, 2016 01:21 PM (qed1T)

420 Nah, if the Cubs win 100+ they'll get swept in the playoffs. You heard it here first.
Posted by: Blano
..........
Yup.. the Cubbies have two scenarios they have repeated over the years... they either tank early in the season, or they tank late.. looks like this will be a tank late year..

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at June 07, 2016 01:21 PM (so+oy)

421

If you can only name a handful of people you respect in your party, it's not your party anymore.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at June 07, 2016 01:21 PM (qCMvj)

422 It is truly disturbing to me, at a very deep level, the amount of smirking apathy at what has happened to the Trump supporters in several places now. Its like death threats and attempts against people who dare to say something Muslims don't like. Well, they shouldn't have acted/dressed like a slut and they wouldn't have been raped.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at June 07, 2016 01:21 PM (39g3+)

423 What's really interesting is that although the upper middle class GOP doesn't get Trump, Ralph Nader understands him perfectly.

http://tinyurl.com/jzh7yv6

Posted by: V the K at June 07, 2016 01:21 PM (O7MnT)

424 326 Anecdotal but interesting....

I just voted here in Calif... as a registered independent I could not vote Repub, but could vote Dem...

so I marked my Ballot for Crazy Uncle Bernie....

Weird though.... even though I live in a Majority Hispanic town.... the only people at the polling place... voters OR poll workers... were either Black, or White... very odd....

Posted by: Don Quixote at June 07, 2016 01:08 PM (qf6WZ)

Because the hispanics do not self-identify as American citizens....

Posted by: cthulhu at June 07, 2016 01:21 PM (EzgxV)

425 This election is lost.

------------

With Hillary as the opposition, I cannot be so sure. And I say that as a Trump hater.

Posted by: SH at June 07, 2016 01:22 PM (gmeXX)

426 I voted for Nixon in 1960, my first vote. I voted form Trump absentee in CA. Why ?

To stop the train.
http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/52951.html

Posted by: Mike K at June 07, 2016 01:22 PM (5namt)

427 WTF world do you live in? Do you fucking watch TV? the news?
Not a single Republican - trump supporter or not - can appear in public without being attacked with this mexican judge comments from Trump bullshit.

The La Raza judge? That one?

Posted by: rickb223 at June 07, 2016 01:22 PM (LwB8i)

428 >>>416 So, as a registered independent, I could vote in the Dem Primary, but not the Repub.
Posted by: Don Quixote at June 07, 2016 01:16 PM (qf6WZ) >>>

Oh, OK.

Posted by: OregonMuse at June 07, 2016 01:20 PM (OxsRO)>>>

Democrats is actually partially closed. Only Democrats and independents can vote in their primary. Republicans cannot.

Posted by: gm at June 07, 2016 01:22 PM (4ueYo)

429 Nordlinger was a Cruz booster before anyone knew who Cruz was.

Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck at June 07, 2016 01:22 PM (ktOIC)

430 "I know FAR more people that aren't politically engaged that are excited about Trump than I saw for Romney. "

This may be true. If you only hang around places like Manhattan, you wouldn't know it.

Posted by: Ignoramus at June 07, 2016 01:22 PM (r1fLd)

431 In the camps, I'm going to insist we put a NR on their shirts, underneath the C.

Posted by: Monsieur Moo Moo at June 07, 2016 01:20 PM (0LHZx)

Nevertrumpers will get an extra ration of gruel at the camps. Also window bunks.

Posted by: Sticky Wicket at June 07, 2016 01:22 PM (i2t8l)

432 Just for the local trivia

East Chicago just had to have a special council vote to remove an indicted for murder councilman from the council. He won after he was charged.

http://tinyurl.com/h6vtu2g

Also today ArcerlorMittal idled 4 (four) steel finishing lines in East Chicago.

You can still get the BEST Polish sausage I've ever had at Michaels though.

Posted by: DaveA at June 07, 2016 01:22 PM (DL2i+)

433 All of you promoting a realignment that co-opts Democrats to replace us snobby ideologues, you do get that these are Democrats, right? People who vote for handouts, whose conventions are basically entitlement auctions? What have you won when you win with them?

You consider yourselves conservative purists and point the RINO finger at someone like Romney, then sell out a good 2/3 of conservative dogma just to win. With Democrats. Can any of you tell me what, exactly, you have won? A trophy or bragging rights or what?

Posted by: spongeworthy at June 07, 2016 01:22 PM (mrfTe)

434
Certainly one can't think that's the Lord's work. This is the Cubs, after all.
Posted by: BurtTC at June 07, 2016 01:18 PM (TOk1P)

I maintain my position that the Universe craves balance and thus the Universe is balancing out Trump/Hillary! with a Cubs/Indians World Series.

Which will go to 15 innings in game 7 and ( your preferred team here ) will be down 3 runs in the bottom of the 15th with bases loaded, 2 out, 2 strikes and then WHAM back back back aaaannnnddddd

SMOD hits. The stadium. Which you get to see just before the ball either goes out for the grand slam or gets caught in a miracle save.

Posted by: alexthechick - All Your Parfait Is Belong To Me at June 07, 2016 01:23 PM (mf5HN)

435 FYI - Steel is strong because it's an alloy not because it's diverse.

Posted by: DaveA at June 07, 2016 01:23 PM (DL2i+)

436 WTF world do you live in? Do you fucking watch TV? the news?

Not a single Republican - trump supporter or not - can appear in
public without being attacked with this mexican judge comments from
Trump bullshit.

It must be nice to live in your world..
==================

I don't watch network news and I don't have cable.

I also don't believe that judges are deities above reproach.

Posted by: mrp at June 07, 2016 01:23 PM (JBggj)

437
Posted by: alexthechick - All Your Parfait Is Belong To Me at June 07, 2016 12:53 PM (mf5HN)

Did you say something, Imperial One? All I saw were "pole" and "ass" and the rest basically became a blur.

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at June 07, 2016 01:23 PM (X6fMO)

438 Upper-middle class and professionals alienated by Trump aren't going to just suddenly embrace the left, especially the wacky racial grievance nonsense and all that other college kid stuff. So if there is an exodus from the GOP, it doesn't mean the Dems will gain from it.

If the Dems do absorb some class refugees, it will change the Dems in the long run and they will not remain the party they now are.

Posted by: cjw at June 07, 2016 01:23 PM (onydf)

439 Nordlinger was a Cruz booster before anyone knew who Cruz was.

------------

Yep. I don't question his conservative credentials.

Posted by: SH at June 07, 2016 01:23 PM (gmeXX)

440
Because the hispanics do not self-identify as American citizens....
Posted by: cthulhu at June 07, 2016 01:21 PM (EzgxV)
----------------------

Which makes it even more interesting, because such people are a Hillary constituency.

Posted by: iforgot at June 07, 2016 01:24 PM (pC96u)

441 Genesis? Oh Man, I LOVE Phil Collins ever since the day Swytek shot the TV while Collins was doing a fund raising scan and casting out demons.

Posted by: Wu Chu, King of Chu at June 07, 2016 01:24 PM (mT20P)

442 Those over educated, upper class snobs can learn the hard way, like the
upper class Romans would find out - Don't spit on the legions...

Did somebody call?

Posted by: Caesar North of the Rubicon at June 07, 2016 01:24 PM (5f5bM)

443 Well, that follow was short.

This blog appears to be one of many (Boomer??) "I'm smarter than absolutely everyone else."

I'm sorry that Trump is too low class for you and you'd prefer to ignore the results of elections and millions of people on the high principle that someone is gauche and thousands of rich people will care.

At this point, this divorce can absolutely not come fast enough.

Posted by: AM at June 07, 2016 01:24 PM (bVGl6)

444 We don't do riots. We do parties. Big ones. We have the second biggest festival in the country after Mardi Gras, and everyone gets along great. There will probably be protesters, but violence is unlikely. Our cops know how to do huge events and let everyone have fun without getting out of hand.

Posted by: stace at June 07, 2016 01:20 PM (ozZau)

Your mayor is Julian Castro, isn't it? You know your city better than I do, but from what I've read of the Castro twins, they are community organizers par excellence and not the sort to let opportunities like a Trump visit go to waste.

Posted by: Donna and V. (sans ampersands at the present time) at June 07, 2016 01:24 PM (u0lmX)

445 FYI - Steel is strong because it's an alloy not because it's diverse.

-----------

Still, its no match for fire. Or so I've been told.

Posted by: SH at June 07, 2016 01:24 PM (gmeXX)

446 Ace, I understand your discouragement, anger and sense of betrayal.

But all is not lost, by any means. I would suggest that the following is as appropriate today as it was when it was first written:

"They tell us, sir, that we are weak; unable to cope with so formidable an adversary. But when shall we be stronger? Will it be the next week, or the next year? Will it be when we are totally disarmed, and when a guard shall be stationed in every house? Shall we gather strength by irresolution and inaction? Shall we acquire the means of effectual resistance by lying supinely on our backs and hugging the delusive phantom of hope, until our enemies shall have bound us hand and foot?

"Sir, we are not weak if we make a proper use of those means which the God of nature hath placed in our power. The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us. Besides, sir, we shall not fight our battles alone. There is a just God who presides over the destinies of nations, and who will raise up friends to fight our battles for us."

Posted by: Natrium at June 07, 2016 01:25 PM (uEGn1)

447 I don't really know, or care, what T. Coddington van Voorhees the VIIth and his cocktail party circuit are going to do on Election Day.

What I'm going to do is what I have done every single year since 1988 with grim determination: go vote against the Democrat. Not for the Republican. Against the Democrat.

Trump isn't to my tastes. He is probably going to lose. He's not a genuine conservative. But this differs from the various reeking hairballs which have been horked up on the carpet by the GOP primary process every four years since 1988 how again precisely?

Really the only difference is that Trump is regarded as a boorish arriviste, Not Quite Our Class Dear, who might embarrass the whole table by using the wrong fork during the salad service, and worse, not caring. Oh noes! We must all link arms and denounce this menace to civilization!

Posted by: torquewrench at June 07, 2016 01:25 PM (noWW6)

448 Even shorter Nordlinger: #neverTrump

More accurate Nordlinger: voting Hillary

I want Trump to win even more now, so that the mere charge of racism has its teeth pulled. They're screaming it over and over like a 2 year old pounding the floor with their fists. I want that to fail.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at June 07, 2016 01:25 PM (39g3+)

449 Which you get to see just before the ball either goes out for the grand slam or gets caught in a miracle save.

Damn it! No Soprano's ending! I want to know what happens.

Posted by: no good deed at June 07, 2016 01:25 PM (9nt94)

450 The GOP did this. They created Trump and they were certain all along that they were going to be able once again to anoint one of their own - Rubio comes to mind - and we'd either fall for the "if you don't vote for our candidate, you'll ensure the Dems win," guilt trip.

After Obama, this election should have been a shoe-in. Hell, the last election should have been a shoe-in, but the goddamned GOP was too arrogant and disrespectful of anybody other than the apparatchiks, to even bother to give a rat's ass.

Posted by: Mr Macca Bean at June 07, 2016 01:25 PM (4ng05)

451 Nevertrumpers will get an extra ration of gruel at the camps. Also window bunks.

Being a kapo in THESE camps will get you beat.

Posted by: rickb223 at June 07, 2016 01:26 PM (LwB8i)

452 Nood. Social drops.

Posted by: johnd01 at June 07, 2016 01:26 PM (ukNFU)

453 The Republican Party will not survive a Trump nomination. The only question is who leaves the party and who stays aboard.

Posted by: lxim at June 07, 2016 01:26 PM (+fXXA)

454 I don't see any reason to slit wrists.

So the Republican party is dead? GOOD. It's been dead to many of us for a long time. That death-grip the GOPe had on party power is gone now, because their "credibility", or appearance of credibility is gone. Pointing and blaming Cruz. Trump or Rubio is pointless - there are way more people at fault, a whole politcal culture, that is bigger than all of them. Fundamental wrongs that were institutionalized and accepted a "right" for so long some don't even remember what it was like before the brainwash. Immigration is a text book example of that.

The right wing base was not represented. The party crafted a new agenda, lied itself into power, and attracted like-minded supporters that are alien to the conventional base. There is no fixing the problem until it is identified. Note that same happened tot he left around 2000 - they are certifiably INSANE now, and they control the culture.

If Trump loses, will rebirth take a while? Yes, but people like me have been calling for this band-aid ripping for a long time. Like everything else, the right/conservatives are late to the party.

As for Spillary, do I want her elected? No. I want her imprisoned. At best. And I don't see anyone, ANYONE, that can challenge the media and Spill like Trump. That's not applause for Trump, that's stone clod reality that there is no one else with at least the appearance of the sack to do it.

I should not have to vote to keep a criminal (Spillary) out of office. That's what the FBI/DOJ is for. If I have to, and I do, there are serious, fundamental problems going on that make Donald Trump look like a hangnail.

Posted by: SaltyDonnie at June 07, 2016 01:26 PM (i6shs)

455 >> All of you promoting a realignment that co-opts Democrats to replace us snobby ideologues, you do get that these are Democrats, right? People who vote for handouts, whose conventions are basically entitlement auctions? What have you won when you win with them?

For the union guys the handout they want is trade protectionism and immigration restriction. I can live with that.

Republicans in general are already highly attached to their "earned" handouts like social security. I used to be big on reforming social security. You know what? Watching the government shovel a trillion dollars out the door to special interest groups every year as the stimulus bill became part of the budget has made me a lot more skeptical of the argument that working and middle class people need to tighten their belts so the party can keep on going.

Posted by: Jake (not officially a regular) at June 07, 2016 01:26 PM (1BdMd)

456 Did you say something, Imperial One? All I saw were "pole" and "ass" and the rest basically became a blur.
Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at June 07, 2016 01:23 PM (X6fMO)

*shoves martini through USB port*

Finally someone who focused on the important part.

Also nood.

Posted by: alexthechick - All Your Parfait Is Belong To Me at June 07, 2016 01:26 PM (mf5HN)

457 425
This election is lost.

------------

With Hillary as the opposition, I cannot be so sure. And I say that as a Trump hater.

Posted by: SH at June 07, 2016 01:22 PM (gmeXX)

Didn't harry Reid say something similar, before the surge?

Posted by: Caesar North of the Rubicon at June 07, 2016 01:27 PM (5f5bM)

458 Your mayor is Julian Castro, isn't it? You know your city better than I do, but from what I've read of the Castro twins, they are community organizers par excellence and not the sort to let opportunities like a Trump visit go to waste.
Posted by: Donna and V. (sans ampersands at the present time) at June 07, 2016 01:24 PM (u0lmX)

Castro won't encourage riots. We don't do that here, and he knows that. We have the same old conscientious police chief, and a good sheriff, and they won't let it happen either.

Posted by: stace at June 07, 2016 01:27 PM (ozZau)

459 "I know FAR more people that aren't politically engaged that are excited about Trump than I saw for Romney. "

This may be true. If you only hang around places like Manhattan, you wouldn't know it.
Posted by: Ignoramus

I think that's another key aspect that some people are missing.

The kind of people most politically engaged people hang around with are white collar, upper middle class. That includes me. This group would have issues if John Kasich got the nomination.

But ask your electrician and plumber and Trump's appeal over say a Romney type candidate is real.

I still though think Trump needs to stop saying stupid shit, even if he's right.

Had Trump just called out the La Raza stuff instead of "Mexican", he would have had a good week.

Posted by: Maritime at June 07, 2016 01:27 PM (qed1T)

460 Who's to blame?

It's not the Trump supporters. They used to be polite, critically-thinking, civic-minded voters. They tried politely to deal with the GOP in the Bush years but they got pissed on. Then they got pissed on by John Boehner and Mitch McConnell.

Now they're pissed off.

I'm not a trump supporter, but I'm probably going to vote for him anyway just because I can't stand to look myself in the mirror and know that I sat at home while Hillary Clinton got elected. If Trump says racist things about a mexican judge, I don't really care anymore. I didn't pick this man to be our nominee. Take that up with his backers. I voted for Cruz.

But if I have to choose between Granny Clinton and Donald Trump, it's really not a hard decision to make.

Posted by: Sam In VA at June 07, 2016 01:27 PM (bNi5D)

461 What's really interesting is that although the upper middle class GOP doesn't get Trump, Ralph Nader understands him perfectly.

http://tinyurl.com/jzh7yv6

Posted by: V the K at June 07, 2016 01:21 PM (O7MnT)

Other than superficially, Ralph Nader doesn't understand shit.

Posted by: Mr Macca Bean at June 07, 2016 01:27 PM (4ng05)

462 Certainly one can't think that's the Lord's work. This is the Cubs, after all.

Posted by: BurtTC at June 07, 2016 01:18 PM (TOk1P)

I maintain my position that the Universe craves balance and thus the
Universe is balancing out Trump/Hillary! with a Cubs/Indians World
Series.

Which will go to 15 innings in game 7 and ( your preferred team here
) will be down 3 runs in the bottom of the 15th with bases loaded, 2
out, 2 strikes and then WHAM back back back aaaannnnddddd

SMOD hits. The stadium. Which you get to see just before the ball
either goes out for the grand slam or gets caught in a miracle save.

Posted by: alexthechick - All Your Parfait Is Belong To Me at June 07, 2016 01:23 PM (mf5HN)

Hmmm, your scenario, it does not displease me.

Although I tend to be a "the universe is chaos" sort myself. I believe balance is what Russian/Romanian gymnasts have at age 14. Otherwise, not so much.

Posted by: BurtTC at June 07, 2016 01:28 PM (TOk1P)

463 Not a single Republican - trump supporter or not - can appear in
public without being attacked with this mexican judge comments from
Trump bullshit.

It must be nice to live in your world..

So what? Who gives a shit?

Any Republican worth a salt should be saying that the judge is a La Raza piece of shit and for that reason alone should be removed from the bench.

Fuck them all.

Posted by: Blano at June 07, 2016 01:28 PM (lbcdD)

464 Really the only difference is that Trump is regarded as a boorish arriviste, Not Quite Our Class Dear, who might embarrass the whole table by using the wrong fork during the salad service, and worse, not caring. Oh noes! We must all link arms and denounce this menace to civilization!

Exactly. I strongly suspect the "he'll be a tyrant!" is just a grasping at something to say other than "eww, he's so crass and gauche lovey!" because they know how that sounds.

He's from the wrong school, he hangs out with the wrong people, he has the wrong approach. Eww, ick.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at June 07, 2016 01:28 PM (39g3+)

465 >>>446 Ace, I understand your discouragement, anger and sense of betrayal.

But all is not lost, by any means. I would suggest that the following is as appropriate today as it was when it was first written:

"They tell us, sir, that we are weak; unable to cope with so formidable an adversary. But when shall we be stronger? Will it be the next week, or the next year? Will it be when we are totally disarmed, and when a guard shall be stationed in every house? Shall we gather strength by irresolution and inaction? Shall we acquire the means of effectual resistance by lying supinely on our backs and hugging the delusive phantom of hope, until our enemies shall have bound us hand and foot?

"Sir, we are not weak if we make a proper use of those means which the God of nature hath placed in our power. The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us. Besides, sir, we shall not fight our battles alone. There is a just God who presides over the destinies of nations, and who will raise up friends to fight our battles for us."
Posted by: Natrium at June 07, 2016 01:25 PM (uEGn1)

_________

This. One thousand times this.

We are weak, but in four years we will be weaker.

And in four more we will be weaker still.

There were better hills to die on that this one, but the up coming next hills are far worse.

"Do what you can, with what you have, where you are."

Posted by: TeamRawDog at June 07, 2016 01:28 PM (10hEu)

466 Trump is a buffoon and Ace is right that the upper middle class GOP will largely not swallow his BS. They cannot defend the man in polite conversation with other upper middle class white voters (indies and dems), they cannot support him publicly (unless they are willing to risk a backlash) and the items on his agenda are not the items on their agenda.

With respect to illegal immigration, the whole thing has become a toxic proxy fight to paper over politically-sacrosanct sacred cows. Want to help end illegal immigration? Repeal minimum wage laws. Also repeal the Taft-Hartley act and bust union organizing for what it is (a monopoly on labor). Loosen labor standards. Repeal overtime regulations. Etc.

Because these policies are "settled" and no-one wants to fight over them, business owners do what makes sense for their business -- they hire illegals rather than citizens. Of course, once the democrats make this latest round of illegals legal, the business community will need another bolus of them to help them skirt business killing labor regulations.

Revisiting these policies is, however, anathema to Trump's coalition, who appear to want a golden return to the nostalgia of a white working class that is not falling behind. Those times are not coming back. Voters can rage out as much as they like with Trump -- there isn't anything that he can do either.

Posted by: Revenant at June 07, 2016 01:29 PM (y64uP)

467 We don't do riots. We do parties. Big ones. We have the second biggest festival in the country after Mardi Gras, and everyone gets along great. There will probably be protesters, but violence is unlikely. Our cops know how to do huge events and let everyone have fun without getting out of hand.

Posted by: stace at June 07, 2016 01:20 PM (ozZau)

_____

San Jose doesn't "do riots" either. But they did it for Trump.

Posted by: Monsieur Moo Moo at June 07, 2016 01:29 PM (0LHZx)

468 I'm not a trump supporter, but I'm probably going to vote for him anyway just because I can't stand to look myself in the mirror and know that I sat at home while Hillary Clinton got elected. If Trump says racist things about a mexican judge, I don't really care anymore. I didn't pick this man to be our nominee. Take that up with his backers. I voted for Cruz.

But if I have to choose between Granny Clinton and Donald Trump, it's really not a hard decision to make.

Posted by: Sam In VA at June 07, 2016 01:27 PM (bNi5D)

At this point Trump could admit he's actually Satan and I'd still vote for him over that Bitch.

Posted by: Blano at June 07, 2016 01:29 PM (lbcdD)

469 I will vote Trump even though he is an ignorant Democrat. I'll vote for him because he's evidently less criminal than Hillary, smarter and because he will judge economic policy better than she. I will vote Trump because he will hopefully be persuadable and do less damage to the Constitution.

Those aren't great reasons to vote Trump, being mostly an effort to limit the damage, but keeping Hillary and the progressive tyranny at bay is far more important than anything else.

Not even a close decision.

Posted by: MTF, please excuse iphone spelling errors at June 07, 2016 01:29 PM (/m8T6)

470 We don't do riots. We do parties. Big ones. We have the second biggest festival in the country after Mardi Gras, and everyone gets along great. There will probably be protesters, but violence is unlikely. Our cops know how to do huge events and let everyone have fun without getting out of hand.

Posted by: stace at June 07, 2016 01:20 PM (ozZau)

I lived in San Antonio for four years. Fiesta is great

Your Mayor is La Raza, the Castros are from SA and it will be a hot mess. Like mexican food in a baby diaper on a grill mess

Posted by: ThunderB at June 07, 2016 01:30 PM (zOTsN)

471 What's going to happen to these retards? They're so inept that even the totally inept Dems won't want them. They wouldn't trust them anyway.

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at June 07, 2016 01:30 PM (4ErVI)

472 Weird though.... even though I live in a Majority Hispanic town.... the only people at the polling place... voters OR poll workers... were either Black, or White... very odd....

Posted by: Don Quixote at June 07, 2016 01:08 PM (qf6WZ)

Because the hispanics do not self-identify as American citizens....

Posted by: cthulhu at June 07, 2016 01:21 PM (EzgxV)

Interesting.... because I've had Jury duty twice in the Last year... one Fed, one State...

Juries are made up from the Voter rolls...

And both times the Jury pool was like 90% Black or White.... only about 10% Hispanic...

Even though my county is 57.5% Hispanic according to the Census...

Weird.... anecdotal... but.... weird...

Posted by: Don Quixote at June 07, 2016 01:30 PM (qf6WZ)

473 Genesis? Oh Man, I LOVE Phil Collins ever since the
day Swytek shot the TV while Collins was doing a fund raising scan and
casting out demons.

Posted by: Wu Chu, King of Chu at June 07, 2016 01:24 PM (mT20P)

I wish I understood what this meant, because it's probably funny.

Posted by: BurtTC at June 07, 2016 01:30 PM (TOk1P)

474 438 Upper-middle class and professionals alienated by Trump aren't going to just suddenly embrace the left, especially the wacky racial grievance nonsense and all that other college kid stuff. So if there is an exodus from the GOP, it doesn't mean the Dems will gain from it.

If the Dems do absorb some class refugees, it will change the Dems in the long run and they will not remain the party they now are.

Posted by: cjw at June 07, 2016 01:23 PM (onydf)

Oh sure. That's why they are battling so hard against the SJW crap taught at unis which cost $55,000 a year to attend.

Where the hell do you think SJWs come from anyway? Do you think they are poor oppressed kids? Trigglypuff's dad was a Harvard prof. They're spoiled rich kids.

For God's sake, the Brooklyn Museum honored Angela Davis on Saturday. The people applauding her were wealthy and white.

Posted by: Donna and V. (sans ampersands at the present time) at June 07, 2016 01:30 PM (u0lmX)

475 SMOD never fails

to disappoint.

Posted by: Grampa Jimbo at June 07, 2016 01:30 PM (1ijHg)

476 458 Your mayor is Julian Castro, isn't it? You know your city better than I do, but from what I've read of the Castro twins, they are community organizers par excellence and not the sort to let opportunities like a Trump visit go to waste.
Posted by: Donna and V. (sans ampersands at the present time) at June 07, 2016 01:24 PM (u0lmX)

Oops, I forgot Castro is now head of HUD.

Our Mayor is Ivy Taylor, the first black female mayor of a top ten city, and for a Democrat, she's a good egg.

Posted by: stace at June 07, 2016 01:30 PM (ozZau)

477 I should not have to vote to keep a criminal
(Spillary) out of office. That's what the FBI/DOJ is for. If I have to,
and I do, there are serious, fundamental problems going on that make
Donald Trump look like a hangnail.

Posted by: SaltyDonnie at June 07, 2016 01:26 PM (i6shs)

Hate to tell you, SaltyDonnie, but it's a lot bigger problem than the FBI and DOJ. If indicted, she would be tried in either DC or NY, and in both places she is unconvictable, because it would be impossible to empanel a jury that did not include at least one (probably more) die-hard Democrat who would never convict her of anything, no matter how damning the evidence. She could rob a bank, smile and wave at the camera, and still there would be a hung jury. That is the fundamental problem. We have a criminal class living within our midst that is open and brazen about it.

Posted by: Caesar North of the Rubicon at June 07, 2016 01:31 PM (5f5bM)

478 I suspect that a lot, a lot, of so-called conservatives/neo-conservatives/ etc-

were merely Democrats/libtards who had enough common-sense after the events of 911 to hop to the Republican/'conservative' side of things over national defense and personal safety,

but never really challenged their own assumptions about everything else.
............
OK.. so now, if you criticize Trump, you're a closet Democrat.. I was wondering when it would come to this..
Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at June 07, 2016 01:17 PM (so+oy)

Ahhh, the smell of burning martyr.

Nice strawman but that's not what I said.

Please read again....the word you're looking for is all.

However, it's not there.

But, your thinking is exhibiting pronounced leftist patterns of thought

so I admit I'm a bit flummoxed here.

Posted by: naturalfake at June 07, 2016 01:31 PM (0cMkb)

479 And fuck whoever thinks refusing to vote for Trump makes me an out-of-the-closet liberal.

Posted by: Bat Chain Puller at June 07, 2016 12:33 PM (SCcgT)

Rejecting the GOP right now is the only principled conservative move. Embracing Trump is actually embracing a tax-hiking pro-abortion liberal.

Posted by: Shooter McGavin at June 07, 2016 12:34 PM (OD23t)

It's time to hope for other things.

I knew you'd see it my way!

Posted by: ace at June 07, 2016 12:36 PM (dciA+)

Posted by: SMOD 2016! at June 07, 2016 01:31 PM (OJKE+)

480 Sorry if this comes off trollish... I don't post here often, and I usually don't post when I agree with what's been said, which is most of the time. So forgive me.

But I hear you all talking about "honor" and "values" as a reason not to vote for Trump. Do you honestly believe that any of the candidates had either of these things? Yes, they pretend to every 4 years, but it's clear from their actions that they have none. If they had, we would not be hearing alleged conservatives regurgitating points that even left wing Democrats thought too extreme to say 10 years ago.

Trump is just the same as any other politician we've elected for 100 years now. He's just honest about it, and doesn't wrap what he's doing in sanctimony, like both sides have done for the last 50 years, as if being in government is some holy obligation.

Posted by: LawLurker at June 07, 2016 01:31 PM (bq0pK)

481 Next violation will be a yellow card with 5 minutes in the penalty box so you can feel shame.
But only some English pig with no brain would do that!

Posted by: andycanuck at June 07, 2016 01:32 PM (PLnZs)

482 . If Trump says racist things about a mexican judge,
Posted by: Sam In VA at June 07, 2016 01:27 PM (bNi5D)

The Wise Latina: "I will make judgements based on the fact that I am a Latina"

MSM/RINOs: Wow, what a great woman.

Trump: That Mexican judge is biased against me because he's Latino and I believe his heritage will be a factor in his decision making.

MSM/RINOs: What a racist!!!!

Posted by: Monsieur Moo Moo at June 07, 2016 01:32 PM (0LHZx)

483
At this point Trump could admit he's actually Satan and I'd still vote for him over that Bitch.

Posted by: Blano at June 07, 2016 01:29 PM (lbcdD)

Well..... it is my theory that Satan was the first American...

Revolted against a Monarch... wanted Freedom of Speech and Religion... ( I keed... I keed....)

Posted by: Don Quixote at June 07, 2016 01:32 PM (qf6WZ)

484 I'm an American citizen First.

I want a party and a government that puts my interests above the others.

I want a government that enforces the law and not selectively.

Neither Dems or Republicans in office do this and have not for a long time.

A new party is forming. It's a revolution, with very little blood loss at the ballot box.

The two sides forming are pretty danm cut and dry. Pick one and toss old two party labels.

It is that simple. It may hurt many egos, but lines in the sand are being drawn by the American Voters.

Posted by: American citizen at June 07, 2016 01:32 PM (X/5o4)

485 There's a little to take offense at in this piece, but I'm not going to because 1) taking offense is a choice, and B) I actually get where you're coming from Ace, even if we disagree on the use and maybe definition of "conservatism." And what I mean by that is that one cannot be taken in with liberal ideology and be a conservative. One cannot be a SJW or SJW-like, and be a conservative. Those condoning the attacks against Trump supporters are not conservatives, they're progressive Republicans. At least in my dictionary.

But the larger point you make is clear and correct, IMHO. We are set for a divorce, and frankly, I suspect I'm in a very small minority as a Constitutionalist, because in this divorce I'm from Earth, progressive Republicans are from Venus, and Trump supporters are from Mercury. I'm not on the same planet with any of them.

The only solace I can take is that when the end comes -and at 50 years old I unfortunately expect to live long enough to see it- the clear implication of the destruction will be laid at the feet of the progressive left, and right, not those who used to believe in conservatism. Unless Hillary's indicted and Trump wins, then conservatism -which has no role or influence in modern American politics in general and this election in particular- will be blamed.

Constitutionalists, n�e Conservatives, are Israel; Progressives are Palestine.

Posted by: bkeyser at June 07, 2016 01:32 PM (l4B3N)

486
William F. Buckley loved Reagan, and you can't get any more blue blood than he was.

WFBs father was a Texas oilman with Irish roots. His mother was a Swiss-German-Irish mix from New Orleans. Not exactly Cabot or Lowell background.

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at June 07, 2016 01:32 PM (X6fMO)

487 Trump does get support from the upper middle class, as part of a broad spectrum of folks who view Trump as a "screw you" vote against the political class.
Much of the upper middle class tends to like technocrats/manager types who stand for 'good government' whatever that means.
Trump by his nature should qualify as a manager type, but his rhetoric is all over the place. his propensity to pick fights, for the sake of picking fights does alienate many people, who may give him the benefit of the doubt

Posted by: standfast24 at June 07, 2016 01:33 PM (PNFIr)

488 Posted by: MTF, please excuse iphone spelling errors at June 07, 2016 01:29 PM (/m8T6)

Trump alone won't judge anything better than Hillary and would be less consistent, thus harder to predict and handle. The only positive is that Trump will supposedly have advisers that lean right and will hopefully guide Trump in the right direction.

Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck at June 07, 2016 01:33 PM (ktOIC)

489 The proper response to the yells of "Trump is a huge racist, see he said Mexican, MEXICAN!!!!" is this, in my experience:

Yes, he said Mexican and it was stupid and clumsy. I agree that sounds bad, particularly in today's easily-offended over-sensitive society.

But if you look you can see what he is talking about: the judge is part of an organization tied to a racial supremacy group and that concerns Trump about his level of objectivity.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at June 07, 2016 01:34 PM (39g3+)

490 261 >>I do not believe in "winning". The very concept is meaningless to me.

Posted by: Jason at June 07, 2016 12:44 PM (B+KeO)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Indeed. Perhaps you are better acquainted with the term "losing" and the implications of same. You may not care at all about "winning", but the alternative should scare the shit out of you.

Posted by: deadrody at June 07, 2016 01:34 PM (W15tP)

491 Many of these people were Democrats and yes they did come over after 9/11.

Charles Jhonson was an example.

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at June 07, 2016 01:34 PM (4ErVI)

492 Buffoon or not, I can't see how it would be possible for Trump to be worse than Obama. The worst case scenario will be that nobody will cooperate with him, and either nothing will get done, or congress may decide that it would be in their interest to take some of the power that the last few presidents have lifted from them, and do their job for a change.

I doubt that the later is likely, because I honestly don't believe they have a clue what to do.

Posted by: Mr Macca Bean at June 07, 2016 01:34 PM (4ng05)

493 But I hear you all talking about "honor" and "values" as a reason not to vote for Trump. Do you honestly believe that any of the candidates had either of these things?

----------------

Yes, I do. Some candidates are more honorable than others and have better values than others. Both Bushes were way more honorable than Clinton. We can disagree on their policies and how conservative they were or weren't. But don't try to argue with me that they were less honorable than Clinton - or that their values were the same.

Posted by: SH at June 07, 2016 01:34 PM (gmeXX)

494 Much of the upper middle class tends to like technocrats/manager types who stand for 'good government' whatever that means.
Posted by: standfast24 at June 07, 2016 01:33 PM (PNFIr)

____

It means we can run the super nanny state better than the other guys.

Posted by: Monsieur Moo Moo at June 07, 2016 01:35 PM (0LHZx)

495 damn quitters

Posted by: oddnot frets not at June 07, 2016 01:36 PM (g1MTt)

496 Maritime-

Here's an anecdote for you.

My somewhat well-read "conservative" friends know well enough to sneer at Trump in politically mixed company, while complaining of the same issues Trump brings up when preaching to the choir..

Social signalling, indeed.

What will they do in Nov?
/shrugs

Posted by: OneEyedJack at June 07, 2016 01:36 PM (kKHcp)

497 But ask your electrician and plumber and Trump's appeal over say a Romney type candidate is real.

Posted by: Maritime at June 07, 2016 01:27 PM (qed1T)

That is, if your electrician and plumber speak English and weren't just in the Home Depot parking lot this morning. Carpenters yesterday, roofers the day before that, cement finishers the day before that.

Posted by: Caesar North of the Rubicon at June 07, 2016 01:36 PM (5f5bM)

498 Jesus fucking Christ, Ace. Pull yourself together.

You're acting like a goddamned little girl.

It's the first week in JUNE for fuck's sake.

The election could be won or lost two dozen times before the actual voting happens, and probably stolen twice after it has.

Pissing your panties now and ranting about how doomed we all are does fuck all to make either outcome happen, so it just ends up making you look like a tool.

Suck it up, girly man. There are miles to go and mountains to climb before the outcome is even in sight, much less known for sure.

Posted by: CoolHand at June 07, 2016 01:36 PM (+5kzn)

499 Guess what? I hate Hillary -- far more than you ever will, regardless of your claims. But Trump, in my opinion at least, is even worse than that, even worse than one of the worst people to ever be a major politician in modern American history. I don't believe that because of "class," I believe that because I take my ideology seriously, and I assess differently than you. I can accept your difference of opinion as an honest one. You seem incapable of accepting ours. Instead, it's all just a variation on "you just want to be popular with your friends and the people you attend parties with."

Yes, I am a bit miffed about it.
Posted by: Jeff B. at June 07, 2016 01:00 PM (ewYO6)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I'd guess the only real response to you is simply - You're Wrong. Very Wrong

Posted by: deadrody at June 07, 2016 01:36 PM (W15tP)

500 Trump alone won't judge anything better than Hillary and would be less consistent, thus harder to predict and handle. The only positive is that Trump will supposedly have advisers that lean right and will hopefully guide Trump in the right direction.
Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck at June 07, 2016 01:33 PM (ktOIC)
------------------

We've seen this week how much influence Trump's advisers are likely to have on him.

Posted by: person at June 07, 2016 01:37 PM (mFkVC)

501 37 30 Wasn't this the same guy who said upstate NY towns should just wither and die? Or am I thinking of a different NRO jackoff.
Posted by: Monsieur Moo Moo at June 07, 2016 12:26 PM (0LHZx)

That's Kevin D. Williamson. The "D" stands for "die white working class scum."

And you know who wrote a spirited defense of Williamson's hate-screed?

David French.

So many principled conservatives, it's hard to keep track of them all anymore.

Posted by: WhatWhatWhat? at June 07, 2016 01:37 PM (s/EUv)

502 I wish I understood what this meant, because it's probably funny.

Posted by: BurtTC at June 07, 2016 01:30 PM

It was the ending of a Miami Vice episode, and I believe it was the birth of the 'shoot the TV' meme.

If you can find that episode, it was a good one.

Posted by: Wu Chu, King of Chu at June 07, 2016 01:37 PM (mT20P)

503 With respect to illegal immigration, the whole thing has become a toxic proxy fight to paper over politically-sacrosanct sacred cows. Want to help end illegal immigration? Repeal minimum wage laws.

Like that's ever going to happen. Stupid fantasy arguments like that are a waste of time.

Trump lives in the real world. So do his supporters.

Fuck the crowd that demands to live in a cozy bubble.

Posted by: Horatio Alger Hiss at June 07, 2016 01:37 PM (RcpcZ)

504 My somewhat well-read "conservative" friends know well enough to sneer at Trump in politically mixed company, while complaining of the same issues Trump brings up when preaching to the choir..

-------------

One can be anti-Trump even if you can agree with some of the things Trump says - or some of the faults that Trump has found in the party.

Posted by: SH at June 07, 2016 01:37 PM (gmeXX)

505 Ace,

Methinks that you are putting your own experiences as being more widespread than it really is.

You seem obsessed over this "upper middle class" of country-club Republicans, almost damning them as bourgeoisie.

Maybe, juuust maybe, being put off by the "Honey Boo Boo"-esque style pseudo-campaign of Donald Trump is not the subconsious yearning for acceptance to the Leftist elite, but an honest disgust at what America has become

Posted by: The Political Hat at June 07, 2016 01:38 PM (vBeA5)

506 No way in hell I'm voting for The Butcher of Benghazi, so Trump it is.

Posted by: WhatWhatWhat? at June 07, 2016 01:38 PM (s/EUv)

507 SH -

The Bushes are personal friends with both Bill and Hillary. You've never heard Jenna and Barbara refer to "Uncle Bill" and "Aunt Hillary?"

Could you, as a man of honor and integrity, tell your daughters to refer to a known rapist and philanderer as "Uncle Bill"?

I do not dispute that GWB and GHWB *appeared* to be more honorable than the monster copping BJs in the Oval Office, but isn't character measured by how you behave when no one is looking? And if these guys are buds when nobody's around, then what exactly is the distinction?

Posted by: LawLurker at June 07, 2016 01:38 PM (bq0pK)

508 To all the people who say Trump is a liberal....if this were the case, wouldn't the left love him? It's so weird how the so-called right is convinced Trump is Marx while the left is doing everything it can to stop him.

Posted by: Monsieur Moo Moo at June 07, 2016 01:39 PM (0LHZx)

509 >>>By what metric does Trump rank lower than Hillary?

outgassing?

Posted by: x at June 07, 2016 01:39 PM (nFwvY)

510 It means we can run the super nanny state better than the other guys.

Right, its the same thing as "compassionate 'conservatism'" which is just nanny state from the right. A lot of social conservatives have a nasty leaning toward big government, just big government they like. I don't like people being conspiculously homosexual, or taking drugs, or worshiping Satan, or having Muslim outreach to schools but that's what freedom includes.

Freedom means nothing if its restricted to only the things the people in power like. Even if I agree with them.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at June 07, 2016 01:39 PM (39g3+)

511 Trump is the crooked cop. Hillary is the crook.

Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck at June 07, 2016 01:40 PM (ktOIC)

512 "because it would be impossible to empanel a jury that did not include at least one (probably more) die-hard Democrat who would never convict her of anything, no matter how damning the evidence."

Don't need a conviction. Not even an indictment.

A leak of an FBI referral with the magic word "RICO."

Posted by: Ignoramus at June 07, 2016 01:40 PM (r1fLd)

513 A lot of social conservatives have a nasty leaning toward big government, just big government they like.

------------

And a lot of social conservatives detest big government.

Posted by: SH at June 07, 2016 01:41 PM (gmeXX)

514 Points to ponder:

1) Trump is "unelectable", but Hillary IS "electable". Hillary. With all of her history and current issues Why is this? Really, why? Why assume the sale? Because Trump is a boor? Is that enough?

2) Why are the "feels" of the upper middle class so very important in this election, such that the middle class or lower class feels are insulted and dismissed? Haven't the "privileged" upper middle class been the target of every lefty ass-raping socio-economic policy for about 20 years?

3) Why are supposed limited govt. conservatives hoping for a Federal govt. fix to the problems of the US? The Feds were instrumental in creating them. Why not focus on other, non-federal options, and "manning" up to deal with the blow-back?

4) Even if Spill or Trump win, these problems are NOT going away. There is a limit to the amount of the dumbass gas the Feds can bomb us with before the EBT cards come up $0.00.

Posted by: SaltyDonnie at June 07, 2016 01:41 PM (i6shs)

515 It was the ending of a Miami Vice episode, and I believe it was the birth of the 'shoot the TV' meme.

If you can find that episode, it was a good one.

Posted by: Wu Chu, King of Chu at June 07, 2016 01:37 PM (mT20P)

Shoot the TV?

Posted by: Elvis at June 07, 2016 01:41 PM (5f5bM)

516 406
There's gonna be lots of divorces.

For example, lots of union workers are sick of illegal immigration
and will vote for Trump. The same for people who feel like they now have
to apologize for being white.

A major realignment of party values has been in the making for
years. Obama and the donor class have brought the pustule to a head.
It's time to lance it.

As for those leaving:

Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.

Posted by: Horatio Alger Hiss at June 07, 2016 01:19 PM (RcpcZ)

I don't think this is as big of a group as you think it is and I also don't believe that this group hasn't already left. Unless they're so afraid that the union can see in the ballot box or brings someone to hold their hand inside the booth, I have to imagine there's alot of union workers who are already secret republicans (if we assume they care more about their pocket book and less about social issues - what's the matter with Kansas?)
There is also a chance that Trump is playing 3D Chess while we are looking at a checkers board. For all the bad jokes about Trump, stupid people don't stay that wealthy for that long.

Posted by: Defector at June 07, 2016 01:41 PM (rLDM0)

517 Like that's ever going to happen. Stupid fantasy arguments like that are a waste of time.

Trump lives in the real world. So do his supporters.

Fuck the crowd that demands to live in a cozy bubble.

Posted by: Horatio Alger Hiss at June 07, 2016 01:37 PM (RcpcZ)

_____Do Trump supporters want to address the problem, or just stamp their feet and show how angry they are about it, without doing anything about it?Nevermind that Trump appears to have won the primary on the basis of a fantasy wall and muslim ban.Actually fixing the problems wrong with America will require an end to normalcy bias and a reexamination of prior policy errors.Or, we can just collapse. In which case, it doesn't really matter what candidate wins in the fall, does it?

Posted by: Revenant at June 07, 2016 01:41 PM (y64uP)

518 The strange thing is that all Trump would need to do to re-gather a broad base of support around him again, would be to get his shit together and get control of his mouth.

Posted by: Mr Macca Bean at June 07, 2016 01:42 PM (4ng05)

519 "WFBs father was a Texas oilman with Irish roots. His mother was a Swiss-German-Irish mix from New Orleans. Not exactly Cabot or Lowell background.

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at June 07, 2016 01:32 PM (X6fMO) "

He had the social cachet of a Boston Brahmin, though. He talked about it a few times in interviews - he was the epitome of a "WASP," yet he wasn't Protestant or Anglo-Saxon. But perception trumps reality.

Posted by: broseidon king of the brocean at June 07, 2016 01:42 PM (kumBu)

520 Or, we can just collapse. In which case, it doesn't really matter what candidate wins in the fall, does it?

-----------

Wasn't that the initial appeal of Trump?

Posted by: SH at June 07, 2016 01:42 PM (gmeXX)

521 It was the ending of a Miami Vice episode, and I believe it was the birth of the 'shoot the TV' meme.

If you can find that episode, it was a good one.

Posted by: Wu Chu, King of Chu at June 07, 2016 01:37 PM (mT20P)

"In the Air Tonight" was another good Miami Vice/Phil Collins collaboration.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1o-NWNmQLM

Posted by: Caesar North of the Rubicon at June 07, 2016 01:42 PM (5f5bM)

522 Maybe, juuust maybe, being put off by the "Honey Boo Boo"-esque style pseudo-campaign of Donald Trump is not the subconsious yearning for acceptance to the Leftist elite, but an honest disgust at what America has become

I think you have to draw a distinction between the two statements ace made. He wasn't saying "they don't like Trump because they want bonus points with the left" but rather "they lean left to begin with and this is just one more thing pushing them that way."

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at June 07, 2016 01:42 PM (39g3+)

523 Posted by: stace at June 07, 2016 01:10 PM (ozZau)
----

Should a gay judge that lives in X state and wants to be married recuse himself from presiding over a court case on the Constitutionality of same-sex marriage in X state? If not, why?

Posted by: SaltyDonnie at June 07, 2016 01:43 PM (i6shs)

524 WOO-WOO

Yep, surely THIS THING will be the one that finally derails me.

Just like all the other THIS THINGs

WOO-WOO

Posted by: Trump Train at June 07, 2016 01:43 PM (10hEu)

525 oh no, were going to lose the house and senate
...that allowed obamacare to stand
...that always raises the debt limit
...that abdicated their duty to vote on a treaty giving nuclear arms to religious savages
...that didnt impeach over the violations of the war powers act or fast and furious or bengahzi or the trading of 5 terrorists for a deserter
...that winks and nods at the executive amnesty after their own proposed amnesty was rebuked by the citizens

I'm so startled

Posted by: Grad School Fool at June 07, 2016 01:43 PM (swEzU)

526 Should a gay judge that lives in X state and wants to be married recuse himself from presiding over a court case on the Constitutionality of same-sex marriage in X state? If not, why?

-----------------

What if he wants to be married, but believes that that power is reserved to the states?

Posted by: SH at June 07, 2016 01:44 PM (gmeXX)

527 The other thing that gets me, is that there's this assumption that if Trump were sophisticated and made cogent arguments for his side, that he'd be more effective and would be a better champion for the conservative movement.

But Ted Cruz did all that. He makes fantastic arguments, on national television sometimes, for conservatism. He's ignored and jeered. Often by the same people who are now fueling the NeverTrump movement.

Do you think that anyone saying the substance of what Trump is saying, but instead clothes it in a better argument, would get a different treatment? No, he'd just be lampooned as a racist, just like Trump.

Posted by: LawLurker at June 07, 2016 01:44 PM (bq0pK)

528
Wasn't that the initial appeal of Trump?

Posted by: SH at June 07, 2016 01:42 PM (gmeXX)

_____I think it was, at least in some circles.To be consistent, that crowd should just be cheering Trump on, and not really caring about whether he beats Hillary.

Posted by: Revenant at June 07, 2016 01:44 PM (y64uP)

529 To allow Trump's boorishness and the agenda driven media to take his inelegant statements and dishonestly run with them as "racist" as a grounds for effectively supporting the most corrupt presidential candidate evah is stupid, arrogant, elitist and selfish.

Wait! That's the GOPe.

Posted by: oddnot frets not at June 07, 2016 01:44 PM (g1MTt)

530 I don't know what's going to happen in November, but I have my fears. But what I want to know from ace and all the other #NeverTrumpers is do you really thing the upper middle class white "Republicans"--for whom social status if everything- were going to stick around if Ted Cruz was the nominee?

Posted by: JoeF. at June 07, 2016 01:44 PM (OOnVm)

531
And a lot of social conservatives detest big government.

Sure, I'm another one like that. But it is a tendency of people whose politics are limited to their ethical or religious system instead of being informed by the constitution and the concepts of liberty and justice over the centuries as they developed into the USA.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at June 07, 2016 01:45 PM (39g3+)

532 This is further proof that we need amnesty so that the judge in the Trump case will like us and rule in Trump's favor

wait...I mean...

Ah fuck. I WANT AMNESTY WWWAAAAA WWWAAAA why won't you rubes give it to me!!!!!

Posted by: Paul Ryan at June 07, 2016 01:45 PM (10hEu)

533 "To all the people who say Trump is a liberal....if this were the case, wouldn't the left love him? It's so weird how the so-called right is convinced Trump is Marx while the left is doing everything it can to stop him.

Posted by: Monsieur Moo Moo at June 07, 2016 01:39 PM (0LHZx) "

You assume the Democratic establishment cares about liberal values any more than the GOPe cares about conservative values? If they did, they'd be supporting Bernie. It's about power and control, same as always. Hillary is a known entity to them, Trump is the ultimate wildcard.

Posted by: broseidon king of the brocean at June 07, 2016 01:45 PM (kumBu)

534 Just because class is more important to some than ideology, doesn't mean that it's more important to all.

Ace also slams NRO and the Standard et al. for not making a bigger deal about San Jose. Why isn't Trump making a bigger deal about it? There is no bigger voice within the party in a presidential year than the nominee, and with Trump, that voice is magnified. Imagine what Trump could have done with the story, if he'd used every media opportunity to concentrate on it. He's got an astounding ability to redirect questioning in interviews to discussions he wants to have, so why not constantly redirect the discussion to the violence there? Instead we're getting Trump working through his issues- explaining to himself that when he loses the suit, it won't be because he lost on the merits, but because the judge was biased.

Posted by: El Skippito Friskito at June 07, 2016 01:45 PM (F26eZ)

535 So Ace,

Trumps own lawyers said this judge wasn't biased. So you are in essence advocating Trumpism? Make outrageous pronouncements with no evidence? Before we use tactics of the left and trash this judge as some sort of la Raza extremist, just to be chic, let's see the facts.

Trump corrupts. Our only chance is unbinding the delegates, otherwise this election will be an epic bloodletting, and embarrassment. No party should ever have trump as a nominee

Posted by: Raquel at June 07, 2016 01:47 PM (WMuZx)

536 JoeF

If you want a specific example, Nordlinger was a huge supporter of Ted Cruz.

Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck at June 07, 2016 01:47 PM (ktOIC)

537 I don't care if my address gets banned. I have only posted on this blog about ten times. Been reading it since 2007. Know many of names from green ass bicycle boys blog which was purged.

Where are the people who worked so hard searching and searching archives on the web to find out what might be there on TFG. Where are the people who fought to keep him out of the White House even with the pathetic pansy candidate McCain. McCain who may have been a war hero but he was no hero in the 2008 election. He rolled over.

I attended my first Republican speech when he was in Nashville. The line of Republicans stood by and said nothing as the SEIU Union thugs screamed and ridiculed them ... they said nothing in return. I was no longer a democrat but G-d damn I was going to take it to the Union 6 ft thug. I am 5'4" and got face to face with him. His spit from screaming at me was all over my cheek. Did I turn and crawl away ... No! I told him the party was a sham and I was his f**king worse nightmare. Because, unlike the sheep in line to hear McCain, I knew the Dems tactics and was not afraid.

During McCain's speech a protestor in the back of the balcony started yelling at McCain. A plant from the Union thugs. Did anyone in the audience even stand up to shout him down? No. I could not take the pussies any longer. I stood up and screamed at him that Obama was a Marxist and the world needs to expose him. Silence from the entire crowd. They looked at me like I was a raging lunatic. After the speech was over, a few men came over to me and told me I screamed what they felt. We shared a few minutes together.

The SEIU Thugs were waiting as everyone exited the Ryman. It started again and again I took it right back to the thugs. The majority of the crowd exited as if they were coming out of a Methodist church service. Never saying one thing to the Thugs. It was pathetic.

You want to win? You fight like your opponent ... only stronger with conviction. The Republicans at the headquarters I visited were welcoming on my visit a few days before McCains speech. Oh, what a beautiful headquarters. Big flat screen televisions, etc. ... looked like a suite at the Four Seasons.

Dress up in your best suit, put on your fine cologne and fight like a pussy ... that is what they did ... just like Graham from SC.

If it took the humbling of my entire family by what we finally saw in the Dems Party, to make us all pull the lever for pansy McCain in the slight chance he could win ... then these uppity tight asses need to get on any damn train rides to victory over Hillary Rodham Clinton.

We were just leftovers from the Depression when my grandfathers were coal miners and Roosevelt was gonna save all the poor people. My parents did well for themselves even without college education. I grew up listening to "look for the union label" background. Generational politics passed down.

I don't give one flying flip what happens in this election except one thing ... Hillary must be defeated.

You choose to sit this one out, you choose to want to be the girl at the party who can't decide so she gets all the attention? ... just bend over now because you don't have any balls in your sacks.

If I can wipe spit from a SEIOU Thug off my cheek in support of McCain and keep on taking it to the Thug. You f**king pansies need to man up and fight.

If not, surrender now and just admit you are too cowardly to fight for anything. No decision is a decision.

Trump for whatever reason is the one that got the nomination. We were asked to support McCain and Romney what was so special about them that it was okay? But, if you will pull the lever for Trump to keep Hillary out of the White House even if you don't agree with him on some or even a lot of thing ... then you are somehow an idiot? Less informed?

It's pathetic. You think you are special because you gonna sit this one out? F**k you ... you are not crap that I would wipe off my shoes.

Hope I never meet you in public. I can yell like a Union Thug and shoot my Mossberg until I drop.

Take your ball and go home pussies.

Posted by: wasone at June 07, 2016 01:47 PM (nA3uK)

538 533 "To all the people who say Trump is a liberal....if this were the case, wouldn't the left love him? It's so weird how the so-called right is convinced Trump is Marx while the left is doing everything it can to stop him.

Posted by: Monsieur Moo Moo at June 07, 2016 01:39 PM (0LHZx) "

You assume the Democratic establishment cares about liberal values any more than the GOPe cares about conservative values? If they did, they'd be supporting Bernie. It's about power and control, same as always. Hillary is a known entity to them, Trump is the ultimate wildcard.
Posted by: broseidon king of the brocean at June 07, 2016 01:45 PM (kumBu)

____

I'm not talking about he DNC establishment. I'm talking about the common SJW on the street. If Trump were 1/2 as liberal as some so-called cons claim he is, leftists would be falling over themselves to vote for him.

Instead they're literally beating up people who do want to vote for him.

Which means

a) Trump isn't liberal

b) ??

Posted by: Monsieur Moo Moo at June 07, 2016 01:47 PM (0LHZx)

539
Funny, that I used to consider myself the base of the party. I knew that I had drifted out of the base when McCain was nominated, and then Romney, either of which I would have voted for by virtue of the Republican guilt trip.

What's weird is now, it seems, people are linking Trump support to "the base" of the Republican party.

That can't even be close to the truth of what's going on.

Posted by: Mr Macca Bean at June 07, 2016 01:48 PM (4ng05)

540 But what I want to know from ace and all the other #NeverTrumpers

I am truly confused why people keep claiming ace will never vote for Trump. He's said repeatedly he will -- reluctantly, like most of humanity in America.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at June 07, 2016 01:48 PM (39g3+)

541 @474 The people alienated by Trump aren't necessarily monocle-and-tophat rich or even sending their kids to prep schools and Ivies. They don't all use "summer" as a verb.

The social class threshold at which Trump becomes painfully embarassing and indefensible is much much lower than some people seem to think it is, at least in the urban and suburban areas. In rural areas, social class has completely different signals and Trump isn't a litmus test at all unless you work for an elected officeholder.

Posted by: cjw at June 07, 2016 01:48 PM (onydf)

542 "I could feel this coming for a while, but it really crystallized last week, when Trump supporters were openly attacked in the street and the agents of the state permitted it, and conservative reaction was... muted to openly supportive of the attacks."

I don't think you understand what was going on in San Jose. The refusal of the cops to intervene was a variant of the Ferguson Effect and not done in ideological support of Mayor Liccardo, who the cops hate.

Posted by: Mr.Cranford at June 07, 2016 01:48 PM (zfNsX)

543 526
Should a gay judge that lives in X state and wants to be married recuse
himself from presiding over a court case on the Constitutionality of
same-sex marriage in X state? If not, why?

-----------------

What if he wants to be married, but believes that that power is reserved to the states?

Posted by: SH at June 07, 2016 01:44 PM (gmeXX)

I believe the OP was referring to California.

Posted by: Caesar North of the Rubicon at June 07, 2016 01:48 PM (5f5bM)

544 I can't speak for everyone opposing Dump, but for me it has nothing to do with speech codes, and everything to do with the fact that he isn't a conservative. He also says dumb sh*t constantly. Some people may like that. I don't.

Look, I'm from Oklahoma. I have to live in NYC because of school(yay GI Bill), and soon, work, and because my wife likes it here. It blows. I have to swim in a sea of liberal Democrats. I'm not gonna vote for one for president.

Every time I think about voting for Trump, I go over to the comment section at Breitbart. I see a bunch of actually racist morons saying blatantly anti-Semitic sh*t. I don't think Trump is a racist, but I learned in the Marine Corps that a leader sets the example for everyone else. The dumb sh*t he says encourages all these c*ckgobblers to come out of the woodwork. He is not the death of PC, look at his statements on Bruce Jenner. He is the creeping death of the perception that conservatism isn't racist.

I'm voting Republican down the line in November, but I'm not voting for Trump. Especially not because some people who DON'T PAY ATTENTION decided they'd rather vote for a liberal than an actual conservative who opposed amnesty.

If I split from the Republican Party, it's to find a more conservative party, not to join the Democrats. I'm not holier than thou, but there is no lesser evil here. There's just two sociopaths.

Posted by: Peter at June 07, 2016 01:49 PM (Pc8rt)

545 "Hey! If we all think really hard, maybe we can stop this rain!"

Posted by: Corona at June 07, 2016 01:49 PM (ragzU)

546 CNN is going full tilt on "First Female Nominee!!!" and it's disgusting--complete with photoshopped portrait of Skankles. It was inevitable, but now they are treating her gender as a "thing." It's sickening. She's a drunken, decrepit old skank; a reprobate; a liar. And no one --in the elite precincts of both major parties--has a problem with her becoming president.
We are thoroughly screwed.

Posted by: JoeF. at June 07, 2016 01:50 PM (OOnVm)

547 "Posted by: Monsieur Moo Moo at June 07, 2016 01:47 PM (0LHZx) "

The claim is that Trump has always been liberal but is now mouthing conservative ideals because he's the GOP nominee. You're expecting people stupid enough to riot in the streets just because their feels are hurt to see beyond the same facade that has rooked most of the Republican base? That's asking an awful lot of them.

Posted by: broseidon king of the brocean at June 07, 2016 01:51 PM (kumBu)

548 What if he wants to be married, but believes that that power is reserved to the states?
Posted by: SH at June 07, 2016 01:44 PM (gmeXX)

The whole entire point of recusal is to avoid even the appearance of conflict of interest.
It undermines faith the Justice if one has to ask if biases played a role in a controversial decision.

So in answer, who cares what He believes? He stands to gain personally from his decision, and therefore should recuse himself.

Posted by: OneEyedJack at June 07, 2016 01:51 PM (kKHcp)

549 Trumps own lawyers said this judge wasn't biased.

Well, that may or may not be accurate. Lawyers have a career on the line dealing with judges, so they are much more careful about public statements. Maybe they're right and its just Trump's concerns. Or maybe Trump is just being a bombastic jackwagon trying to influence the case that's weak for him. Or maybe he's got a point that the lawyers don't know. I dunno.

Frankly I don't care.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at June 07, 2016 01:51 PM (39g3+)

550 CNN is going full tilt on "First Female Nominee!!!" and it's disgusting--complete with photoshopped portrait of Skankles. It was inevitable, but now they are treating her gender as a "thing." It's sickening. She's a drunken, decrepit old skank; a reprobate; a liar. And no one --in the elite precincts of both major parties--has a problem with her becoming president.
We are thoroughly screwed.
Posted by: JoeF. at June 07, 2016 01:50 PM (OOnVm)

"The Revolution" is the headline on Comcast home page. Shades of Hugo Chavez.

Posted by: Mr Macca Bean at June 07, 2016 01:52 PM (4ng05)

551 Posted by: OneEyedJack at June 07, 2016 01:51 PM (kKHcp)

Trump's attorneys should file the motion. Why haven't they?

Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck at June 07, 2016 01:52 PM (ktOIC)

552 "People are still making excuses as to why they are talking nonstop about Trump's Judge and can't even talk about San Jose between breaths."

Trump personally brought up the judge in his speeches at rallies last week.

So, maybe you could put some blame on him.

Trump in a conference call told his campaign to pay MORE attention to the judge issue and stop trying to ignore it.

So stop making excuses for Trump. He's the leader here.

Posted by: Sexypig at June 07, 2016 01:52 PM (UBBWX)

553 I'm not even really sure what #NeverTrump means. I guess it's the whiny commentariat class and ex-Rubio fanbois and fangurlz on Twitter who were basically already closet liberals?

Because Ted Cruz had a lot of supporters, and we didn't just disappear when he dropped out. And most of the ones I know are either grudgingly voting for Trump, voting 3rd party, or staying home. I guess we're not #NeverTrump because we don't make a lot of noise on Twitter, but we do exist.

Posted by: broseidon king of the brocean at June 07, 2016 01:53 PM (kumBu)

554 Oh, the reason the left isn't giving Trump a break on his politics is the same reason Romney wasn't given a break: because of his party. It didn't matter how much he agreed with them or would govern in a manner they would like. All that matters is that party label. Its part brainless cheerleading "them against us" and part strategy: the other side cannot win any victories.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at June 07, 2016 01:54 PM (39g3+)

555 477 Posted by: Caesar North of the Rubicon at June 07, 2016 01:31 PM (5f5bM)

---
Amen. Exactly my point. So why are we clutching pearls over Trump and his comments again?

Ace does a two-sentence post on how evil Hillary is (agreed) but goes on and on and on over the woes of Trump (and there are woes).

If I was opposition research for Trump, and he came to me to ask my ideas for commercials against Spill, I would belly laugh, stammer and ask "what's your budget!?" The sky's the limit on that bitch, you'd run out of money before I ran out of attack ads based on TRUTH, before I ever got to the bloody slander.

I saw this with Cruz - more bashing of Trump and not enough support of Cruz. Trump sucks. Yes, and? WHY is Cruz good? WHY should he supported? WHAT did he actually accomplish in office? SELL Cruz, don't bash his competitors.

Why are we willing to cave and accept the left's view on every fucking thing that pops up in the media without a fight? Why do we care what others think of us, when those others wouldn't piss on us if we were on fire? Because we fear Trump will become what we already have? Seriously?

We are where we are now because a GOP Congress lacked the balls to use its Constitutional powers to keep Obama in check primarily for FEAR of being CALLED racist. "Appearances". Narcissistic bullshit excusing incompetence and collaboration.

And here we are, yet again, longing to give in. I'd rather go down swinging that wetting myself over "tone" and "appearance" and "class status". This isn't fucking high school.

Posted by: SaltyDonnie at June 07, 2016 01:54 PM (i6shs)

556 If I split from the Republican Party, it's to find a more conservative party, not to join the Democrats. I'm not holier than thou, but there is no lesser evil here. There's just two sociopaths.
Posted by: Peter at June 07, 2016 01:49 PM (Pc8rt)

I've no problem with sitting out. There have been a few who've said they'd vote for Hellary over Trump, and I say one can't claim to be conservative and vote for her.
ps those posters were nics I'd not seen before, which is why I suggested trolling over honest disagreement.

Posted by: OneEyedJack at June 07, 2016 01:55 PM (kKHcp)

557 Many are tired of Political Correctness. They see the damage done the stifling of free speech and even the stifling of the facts if they're not comfortable with those facts.

I really honestly believe this is the Anti-PC election. If Trump wins, he'll have broken a lot of the PC bullshit. If he loses, it's going to get far, far worse.

I actually think that's really what has driven him into being the nominee. His lack of fear of saying things that, if *I* said them, I'd lose my livelihood, and be driven out of society.

Posted by: GMan at June 07, 2016 01:55 PM (sxq57)

558 OK, gang. I hate for this to sound like a Can't We All Get Along, I really do, but intra-conservative disputes are really starting to sound to me like the People's Front of Judea. We're rapidly nearing this level:

http://tinyurl.com/z3fggfg

Posted by: JPS at June 07, 2016 01:55 PM (mH5lL)

559 Y'all have probably discussed this already, but Peter and a couple of the other incessant ant-Trumpers here are probably astro-turfers, am I right?

It just seems that that level of dedication would be hard to maintain, without being compensated for it.

Posted by: Mr Macca Bean at June 07, 2016 01:56 PM (4ng05)

560 Trump support is not just working class whites.

So this claim that the party is splitting up by class doesn't quote hold water.

I think the split is from those who are okay with white identity politics vs. those who are not.

I actually get those who have decided to fight fire with fire by setting up a white identity. Its a strategy.

But its also a dangerous one. If it works, you can't go back. You have allowed the other side to set the rules.

Posted by: Sexypig at June 07, 2016 01:56 PM (UBBWX)

561 CNN is going full tilt on "First Female Nominee!!!" and it's disgusting--complete with photoshopped portrait of Skankles.

One of their reporter girls breathlessly asked Hillary what it "felt like" to be "historical" because she's going to have the required delegates soon. She didn't bother doing that with Bernie Sanders, the first Jewish candidate in American history to do as well as he is. He's a historical first actual minority candidate -- the second that Hillary Clinton has tried to keep from winning.

Trump personally brought up the judge in his speeches at rallies last week.

I agree, he should bring up the thugs and violence directed against his supporters more. Its annoying that this is being more or less swept under the rug.

But Trump does not compel everyone to do anything. They should by its very nature be much more concerned about people beating and burning and breaking because they don't like a political candidate than someone calling a guy Mexican. And they aren't. And I think that's pretty significant.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at June 07, 2016 01:57 PM (39g3+)

562 I don't think you understand what was going on in San Jose. The refusal of the cops to intervene was a variant of the Ferguson Effect and not done in ideological support of Mayor Liccardo, who the cops hate.

Yeah, sure. The fact that the chief of police there is a member of La Raza had nothing to do with it, right?

Posted by: GMan at June 07, 2016 01:57 PM (sxq57)

563 "The anti-American crowd is reverting to their usual "stupid" and "evil" attacks. That you're giving them credence is evidence of how thoroughly embedded those attacks have become. But that's another meme that has lost importance.
Posted by: cthulhu at June 07, 2016 12:48 PM (EzgxV)"

(Hi, Coothie!)

Just because "stupid" and "evil" is their default attack position doesn't mean Trump is not, in fact, objectively, an ass. An unsophisticated, crude, moron.

Contrary to Sean Hannity (who's ONLY shtick for over a decade and a half has been to *whine* incessantly about the UNFAIR "Mainstream Media", like an annoying pussy, from his platform at Fox News) it's NOT UNFAIR to note that Trump is a dishonest, deeply weird, stupid man.

I mean yeah, I'll vote for Trump, probably, but I'm under no illusions as to the low character, deeply flawed nature both (intellectually and temperamentally) of Trump as a candidate and I don't wish to be.

Posted by: Deety (Roof Korean) at June 07, 2016 01:58 PM (xPWMR)

564 Posted by: SaltyDonnie at June 07, 2016 01:54 PM (i6shs)

Respectfully disagree. Every post on Cruz addressed why Cruz was the best candidate. Trump's faults always came up as a contrast to Cruz's positions.

Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck at June 07, 2016 01:58 PM (ktOIC)

565 Trumpets are so pathetic. Jay Nordinger wrote a very thoughtful piece, and him not supporting some blowhard like trump doesn't make him a liberal. No self respecting conservative should be anywhere near trump, with his ever changing positions, strong man tendencies. He is an embarrassment to the country. Insulting war veterans, handicapped people, fantasizing about bedding his own daughter, his support for single payer, touchback amnesty, mr. Planned parenthood is awesome, transgender bathrooms swell, etc. Not to mention how much of a complete whack job trump is and how suspended from reality you have to be to support him. He is a walking caricature of what a conservative would act and behave like in the mind of the left. Jay is a conservative, who doesn't want to be attached to someone like trump, and his band of alt right white nationalists troll supporters. There aren't enough angry white guys left to give trump the election sorry trumpets.

Posted by: Raquel at June 07, 2016 01:58 PM (WMuZx)

566 conservative reaction was... muted to openly supportive of the attacks.

I don't think this is correct. Certainly the Left was on the attack. Who in the Right supported or condoned the attacks on Trump supporters? Maybe the David Brooks/Frum crowd, but which conservatives? Evidence?

Posted by: Hurricane LaFawnduh at June 07, 2016 01:58 PM (laMCB)

567

Oh, have I mentioned that I hate mowing?

Posted by: Kudzu King at June 07, 2016 01:59 PM (HSmrB)

568 "I don't think this is as big of a group as you think it is and I also don't believe that this group hasn't already left"

When I first moved back to the Midwest after living in DC for over a dozen years, I noticed that people here talked politics for a few minutes and then stopped, unless someone got very heated and vehement with an opposing position. Because most people don't find politics that interesting. After all those years in DC, where everyone talked politics all the f'ing time and thought it was the most interesting subject on earth, I was shocked to hear people treat it like people in San Diego must treat discussions of the weather.

And I live in a blue neighborhood now - the discussions and concerns in the 'burbs are completely different. So are the yard signs come October.

One reason I am loath to make any predictions at this point is because I became aware of just how blinkered one's political POV can be based on where you are located.

Yeah, it's a trite, obvious point, but one that is so very easy to forget.

Posted by: Donna and V. (sans ampersands at the present time) at June 07, 2016 01:59 PM (u0lmX)

569 "There have been a few who've said they'd vote for Hellary over Trump, and I say one can't claim to be conservative and vote for her."

People say they will move to Canada, too. Its just blowing smoke.

Posted by: Sexypig at June 07, 2016 01:59 PM (UBBWX)

570 "It just seems that that level of dedication would be hard to maintain, without being compensated for it.

Posted by: Mr Macca Bean at June 07, 2016 01:56 PM (4ng05) "

Only if you extend the same rationale to wasone, who shit out an ace-movie-review length turd just above Peter's post.

Posted by: broseidon king of the brocean at June 07, 2016 01:59 PM (kumBu)

571 Ah, yes: is this Chapter 28 of The Power of Negative Thinking?

The Leftists don't let this sort of thing deflect them. Ever. At all. They take whatever inches they get and push for more, always. Their unholy tenacity is the one thing I grudgingly respect about them: no matter who their candidates are (and they've fielded some real horrorshows), they never ever kick over the game board.

Posted by: Beverly at June 07, 2016 01:59 PM (zge9P)

572 Posted by: Raquel at June 07, 2016 01:58 PM (WMuZx)

Your concern is.....

Posted by: Donna and V. (sans ampersands at the present time) at June 07, 2016 02:00 PM (u0lmX)

573 Who in the Right supported or condoned the attacks on Trump supporters? Maybe the David Brooks/Frum crowd, but which conservatives? Evidence?

Evidence is tough, when the problem was the *lack* of commentary on it by people that should have been raising holy hell. Like, I dunno, Paul Ryan, Priebus, or McConnel, or Gingrich...

You know, the quote, unquote, leaders.

Posted by: GMan at June 07, 2016 02:00 PM (sxq57)

574 526 -Posted by: SH at June 07, 2016 01:44 PM (gmeXX)

Yes, like in California. that's not a hypothetical. That happened. And paved the way for the SCOTUS to force it on everyone. Because a biased Judge read the Constitution to read what wasn't there, and a biased state Attorney General decided not to prosecute the appeal, and a biased judiciary found no standing in the PEOPLE of said state to contest the Federal govt. rescinding their elected state constitutional amendment defining for themselves what marriage was as a social definition.

So, no biggie if the Judge has a personal stake?

Posted by: SaltyDonnie at June 07, 2016 02:00 PM (i6shs)

575 Who in the Right supported or condoned the attacks on Trump supporters? Maybe the David Brooks/Frum crowd, but which conservatives? Evidence?

All the ones that were not loud and upset in their condemnations as the situation and events properly warranted. This wasn't a 'tut tut, how sad" event. This was a "WHAT THE LIVING F---????" event. Beating people bloody for wanting to vote for a guy is not just sad, its shockingly horrific and unacceptable no matter who the candidate is. This isn't freaking Burkina Faso or North Korea, for crying out loud.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at June 07, 2016 02:01 PM (39g3+)

576 I think the split is from those who are okay with white identity politics vs. those who are not.

It's between political junkies and normal people.

This blog is a self-selected minority of political junkies.

So it makes sense that most people here will never get it.

Posted by: Horatio Alger Hiss at June 07, 2016 02:01 PM (RcpcZ)

577 Maybe they dusted off Axelrod and brought in the "special" crew to stroll through the blogs. Going back to just reading.

Posted by: wasone at June 07, 2016 02:01 PM (nA3uK)

578 564 Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck at June 07, 2016 01:58 PM (ktOIC)

Respectfully disagree. I got tired of coming here and seeing bashing. I hated Rubio but I got sick of that, too. I don't mean a sentence here or there, I mean posts the size of movie reviews, real research, or at least, informed cites to links with research.

Posted by: SaltyDonnie at June 07, 2016 02:04 PM (i6shs)

579 And if you are a Cubs fan, don't you have to be wondering if the Jake Arrieta era is coming to a close? Where did the guy come from? What kind of deal with the devil did he make to be suddenly catapulted to not just the greatest pitcher of his day, but possibly of all time?

Certainly one can't think that's the Lord's work. This is the Cubs, after all.
Posted by: BurtTC at June 07, 2016 01:18 PM (TOk1P)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Well, first of all, you're confused. The best pitcher on the planet is Clayton Kershaw and it really isn't all that close. Better by a factor of 2 if you stretch the window far enough.

Posted by: deadrody at June 07, 2016 02:04 PM (W15tP)

580 It's pathetic. You think you are special because you gonna sit this one out? F**k you ... you are not crap that I would wipe off my shoes.

Hope I never meet you in public. I can yell like a Union Thug and shoot my Mossberg until I drop.

Take your ball and go home pussies.

Posted by: wasone at June 07, 2016 01:47 PM (nA3uK)

Well said. All of it.

Posted by: Blano at June 07, 2016 02:06 PM (lbcdD)

581 Yeah Kershaw is by a large margin the best pitcher of the day, but Arrieta is extremely good. The last year or so of baseball he's been as good as Kershaw, but he needs to keep that up for about 4 years to be better.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at June 07, 2016 02:06 PM (39g3+)

582 Well, first of all, you're confused. The best pitcher on the planet is Clayton Kershaw and it really isn't all that close. Better by a factor of 2 if you stretch the window far enough.

Posted by: deadrody at June 07, 2016 02:04 PM (W15tP)
__________________________

Yeah,, but how does he feel about mowing?

Posted by: Kudzu King at June 07, 2016 02:07 PM (HSmrB)

583 Posted by: Raquel at June 07, 2016 01:58 PM (WMuZx)

Begonia has reappeared.

Posted by: Blano at June 07, 2016 02:09 PM (lbcdD)

584 Well, first of all, you're confused. The best pitcher on the planet is Clayton Kershaw and it really isn't all that close. Better by a factor of 2 if you stretch the window far enough.

Posted by: deadrody at June 07, 2016 02:04 PM (W15tP)

I love Kershaw, but his arm suddenly seems to stop working in October, especially when he's facing hitters with birds on bats on their uniforms.

Posted by: Donna and V. (sans ampersands at the present time) at June 07, 2016 02:09 PM (u0lmX)

585 "Yeah Kershaw is by a large margin the best pitcher of the day, but Arrieta is extremely good. The last year or so of baseball he's been as good as Kershaw, but he needs to keep that up for about 4 years to be better.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at June 07, 2016 02:06 PM (39g3+) "

Kershaw is having his best year ever so far - I didn't think he had another level to reach, but apparently he did. He's got a .647 WHIP and an 18.17(!) strikeout to walk ratio. 109 K's and 6 BB's. You know how people say X has 'video game numbers'? I would have trouble putting up those numbers in The Show.

Of course, some people will never give him proper credit until he does it consistently in October. But he will - talent wins out in the end.

Posted by: broseidon king of the brocean at June 07, 2016 02:10 PM (kumBu)

586 An unsophisticated and crude description of our plight is the most accurate.

We're being raped and robbed.
Our republic is being stolen our from under us.
The people who promised to fight for us lied through their teeth, are in on it, and actually despise us.
There is no rule of law anymore.

Crude, simple, accurate.

Posted by: Semi-Literate Thug at June 07, 2016 02:10 PM (4ODOq)

587 He said Trump will probably win and if he does, all high profile supporters will be targets of the Clinton lynch mob, so he's officially (wink wink) endorsing Clinton.

Yeah well, this is probably a wise approach. A Clinton win = endorsement of the thug violence tactics directed at Trump supporters. See, America doesn't care, law enforcement doesn't care, and the people in power were behind it to begin with, its open season.

Combine that with how Hillary Clinton doesn't talk about the "Vast Right Wing Conspiracy" out of some crass political leveraging. She really believes this is real in the bottom of her heart. If she wins, she's unstoppable, and with the last 8 years of Obama she's got precedent for shredding the law and attacking political enemies with the administration without a single consequence or real opposition.

God help us all.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at June 07, 2016 02:10 PM (39g3+)

588 Well, folks, it's "Press the hyperspace button and make the jump to warp speed" with Trump, hoping for luck, OR

"Stick around in the asteroid field and get battered to death by Hildabeast and her Flying Monkeys from the Dark Side."

Posted by: Beverly at June 07, 2016 02:13 PM (zge9P)

589 "That IBD poll has Obama at the highest of all approval ratings among the major pollsters, against a backdrop of 27% Right Direction/68% Wrong Direction for the country. Seems a little skewed to the Dems. In June."

I think its because Obama stopped doing anything except the photo ops for his social media plays.

Posted by: Sexypig at June 07, 2016 02:14 PM (UBBWX)

590 Of course, some people will never give him proper credit until he does it consistently in October. But he will - talent wins out in the end.

Posted by: broseidon king of the brocean at June 07, 2016 02:10 PM (kumBu)

I hope it does, but if not he's not the first great player to wilt in the offseason. I'm reading a biography of Ty Cobb right now. Dude had a .366 lifetime BA , set a zillion mlb records and yet he was a reliable post-season choker.

Posted by: Donna and V. (sans ampersands at the present time) at June 07, 2016 02:15 PM (u0lmX)

591 We have to destroy the village party in order to save it.

Posted by: Steve (a.ka. Ed Snate) at June 07, 2016 02:15 PM (SCUgO)

592 Even when Kershaw isn't good (last start) he still manages to get a win out of it by sheer talent and willpower. He's just that good at pitching, rather than physical ability. My favorite all time Dodger pitcher is Orel Herschiser, who at his best was simply impossible to beat. But Kershaw is one of the best pitchers that has ever picked up a baseball, of all time. Top ten, maybe even top five. Even Sandy Koufax wasn't as good, as long.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at June 07, 2016 02:15 PM (39g3+)

593 @583

I don't know who begonia is, but I'm not her/him/it. I'm just a black conservative that will not and cannot support someone like trump and his brand of white identity politics. I left the dem plantation to escape identity politics, now I'm horrified that it's found its way into the GOP. Never in my wildest dreams did I think a wild eyed conspiracy whack job like trump could win the GOP nomination. Rafael Cruz whacked jfk though... LEts find out the truth about 9/11!!!eleventy111 no wmds Iraq, bush lied. Etc etc. I can't support someone like that ever.

Posted by: Raquel at June 07, 2016 02:15 PM (WMuZx)

594 "This (and every other) election is binary.

Hillary will win OR Trump will win.

So when you throw your #nevertrump tantrum you're supporting Hillary. Doesn't get more black and white."

Help me out with your math here, guy. So:

Vote for Trump = vote for Trump
Vote for Hillary = vote for Hillary
Vote for neither = vote for Hillary

Is that Common Core or something?

Posted by: PCBushi at June 07, 2016 02:15 PM (Tysro)

595 That Mencken quote should probably be taken off the mast head. Replace it with something more pusillanimous.

Posted by: nip at June 07, 2016 02:16 PM (r73Jl)

596 I hope it does, but if not he's not the first great player to wilt in the offseason.

Alex Rodriguez is the same way. One of the best hitters of all time, but not great in post season. Barry Bonds was lousy post season for a while too, then he figured it out and was simply terrifying. Post Season is a different ballgame.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at June 07, 2016 02:17 PM (39g3+)

597 There is no truer clich� than politics is the art of addition. I absolutely agree with you that the virtue signaling upper-middle class GOP, which comprises about 25 percent, has decided to bolt. The basically phony single issue pro-lifers (probably 1-2 percent) likely are gone as well. As you have written previously, there really hasn't been a coalition in recent years, just that bolting segment telling the other 75 percent what to do. The white working class Democrats, meanwhile, are defecting heavily to Trump. Will those gains offset the losses? No one knows at this point, and frankly the election got tighter more quickly than I thought and we still don't know what the Bernie people will do (probably fall into line but who knows?). Either Clinton or Trump could win in a blow out, or it could be like recent elections with a paper thin margin, which would give a slight Clinton advantage. If she does in fact go with Sherrod Brown or another white male swing state veep, it would indicate she thinks this is the case as well.

Short version: no one knows what will happen at this point. No one even can make an educated guess.

All that said, I agree with you totally here:

"I think maybe it's the wisest, best course to not get too hung up on horserace/story of the day crap, and maybe start focusing on long-term positioning and hashing out actual philosophy -- what we'd like a party, optimally, to be. "

This is true regardless of who prevails. The Republican Party has been reconfigured as far as class. Now it needs to sort out how to make an ideology fit its demography.

This needs to be the focus regardless of who wins, and I highly recommend the Journal of American Greatness for suggestions. While I don't like going this route, I'll repeat something I wrote yesterday: the goal needs to make the Republican Party the only one acceptable to whites outside of left-wingers (it almost is there, anyhow), and to drag along members of other tribes who oppose left-wingers. It would be great to have parties based on ideas, but at this juncture it isn't an option. Now to the platform. Trump already has shown us what has to be done as far as the media and political correctness. Those are mere procedure albeit overdue. Now to substance.

Posted by: Trump poisoned my cat at June 07, 2016 02:17 PM (HmQEk)

598 OMG Ace, we all knew this in 08. The way the Republicans turned down their noses at Palin.

So glad they are going back from whence they came....the left. Hope they stay there and wallow in the 3rd world country they have created.

Posted by: Pam at June 07, 2016 02:18 PM (cF0hS)

599 I'm just a black conservative that will not and cannot support someone like trump and his brand of white identity politics.

I feel sorry for you that you cannot grasp that pro-America does not mean "white identity politics." Its truly sad to me that there are people out there so wholly incapable of reason and critical thought as to view Trump as some white supremacist.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at June 07, 2016 02:18 PM (39g3+)

600 Macca Bean- I've never posted here so I don't know how to link to your comment. I've lurked on this site since, I wanna say, 2007-2008? When I was in college. I mostly just look at the ONT every night, or in the morning when I was deployed and the white line was working. I don't see how I could possibly be an incessant anti-Trump poster, given this is my first ever post. I do however hate the d-bag. I'm really sorry you have a hard-on for an orangutan. I don't even think you could go to Denmark any more and have sex with it; I think they repealed their lenient laws toward bestiality. I may be mixing that up with a different Scandi country. Best of luck with your romantic efforts.

Posted by: Peter at June 07, 2016 02:18 PM (Pc8rt)

601 Best elections evah!

Posted by: G6loq at June 07, 2016 02:18 PM (zj+JZ)

602 "I hope it does, but if not he's not the first great player to wilt in the offseason. I'm reading a biography of Ty Cobb right now. Dude had a .366 lifetime BA , set a zillion mlb records and yet he was a reliable post-season choker.

Posted by: Donna and V. (sans ampersands at the present time) at June 07, 2016 02:15 PM (u0lmX) "

Indeed, odd things happen in small sample sizes. Honus Wagner famously stunk in the first ever WS (though he redeemed himself in 1909). Ted Williams was poor in his only WS appearance, though I believe he was nursing an injury. Barry Bonds was famously a terrible postseason hitter until his PED-aided second prime where he put up one of the best playoff hitting runs of all time.

Posted by: broseidon king of the brocean at June 07, 2016 02:19 PM (kumBu)

603 The path these bastards have in mind for us us Venezuela. It begins with mobs of 'conccerned citizens' attacking the political opposition, mobs organized by the government and protected by the police. The mobs are going to grow larger and bolder, and their police protection more obvious, no matter who gets elected.

We are headed for some form of open warfare. And poverty, crime, and false imprisonment.

Posted by: Semi-Literate Thug at June 07, 2016 02:20 PM (4ODOq)

604 @Pam I hate to break it to you, but Palin was a walking disaster, and her voice was like nails on the chalk. Want proof? She endorsed Trump!!! Enough said!

Posted by: Raquel at June 07, 2016 02:20 PM (WMuZx)

605 Posted by: Raquel at June 07, 2016 02:15 PM (WMuZx)

As a "black conservative" have you given any thought to the fact that amnesty will drive the unemployment rates of blacks even higher?

You might not be interested in identity politics but they are interested in you. If blacks were able to drop the "He's a raccccccist!" crap for a second and think a bit deeper, they would realize that unrestricted immigration hurts blacks more than anybody.

Posted by: Donna and V. (sans ampersands at the present time) at June 07, 2016 02:21 PM (u0lmX)

606 "Top ten, maybe even top five. Even Sandy Koufax wasn't as good, as long.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at June 07, 2016 02:15 PM (39g3+) "

If Kershaw retired tomorrow, he's a Hall of Famer. If he keeps going at this pace, he has a chance to be in the best of all time argument.

Posted by: broseidon king of the brocean at June 07, 2016 02:21 PM (kumBu)

607 586 An unsophisticated and crude description of our plight is the most accurate.

We're being raped and robbed.
Our republic is being stolen our from under us.
The people who promised to fight for us lied through their teeth, are in on it, and actually despise us.
There is no rule of law anymore.

Crude, simple, accurate.
Posted by: Semi-Literate Thug at June 07, 2016 02:10 PM (4ODOq)

There, there, mi amigo. No need to worry, we plan on passing Amnesty to help you and all your undocumented brothers the moment the next president is elected!

Posted by: Mitch McConnell at June 07, 2016 02:23 PM (pVM3N)

608 Trump should have settled his Trump University lawsuits last year. Just paid out the money.

He's worth $10 billion dollars.

Instead, he actually brought this case and judge more attention this weekend.

Trump himself brought this up in speeches!!!!!

I think he maybe wants to lose. Maybe he knows he isn't really going to like being president.

Posted by: Sexypig at June 07, 2016 02:25 PM (UBBWX)

609 White identity politics? Complete nonsense, utterly predictable leftwing garbage.

The Race Card is maxed out!

Posted by: Pam at June 07, 2016 02:26 PM (cF0hS)

610 As a "black conservative" have you given any thought to the fact that amnesty will drive the unemployment rates of blacks even higher?
-----
Why are you putting this in quotations?

You might not be interested in identity politics but they are interested in you. If blacks were able to drop the "He's a raccccccist!" crap for a second and think a bit deeper, they would realize that unrestricted immigration hurts blacks more than anybody.
----
This commenter already said she doesn't do that: she left the plantation.

And you decide to just lump her in.

Posted by: Sexypig at June 07, 2016 02:28 PM (UBBWX)

611 Drew M is right: don't fall in love with politicians. They are only tools. Reward good behavior - punish bad behavior.

Posted by: Sexypig at June 07, 2016 02:29 PM (UBBWX)

612 This is wrong on one point: Nordlinger is not one of the NR writers who fit the profile of those "always the most likely to flip liberal, as they share the most assumptions of what the "Good Life" consists of with liberals". Unless you think that highbrow cultural tastes are the test (and that would be absurd.)

I gave up on NRO about 2 months ago, because of the narrowness of many of their main cast, but Nordlinger simply wasn't one of them. Williamson, Goldberg, and Charen, yes. Even sometimes French. But of the regulars, I don't at all see it in Nordlinger (or McCarthy or Hanson, for that matter.) What I think you are doing is imposing your model of what a particular group is like; painting a picture of what those who won't support Trump are like, and then assuming that any conservative writer who doesn't, looks like that picture. (The same kind of mistake the Rubiettes made.)

E.g., "One thing I'd just love is if so-called conservatives weren't as joyously SJW in pushing politically correct speech codes on everyone." Absolutely inappropriate for Nordlinger; I don't recall him ever being guilty of that.

The problem is that this year fits no one's preconceptions, but we all seem to want to cling to ours. Won't work.

Posted by: George LeS at June 07, 2016 02:31 PM (iqTN2)

613 ok, i actually have a somewhat different impression. i am surprised at the number of GOPers (ryan etc) who stay they will stick with trump though what he said was 'racist'. something momentous is happening with the weight of the charge of racism. like, if ryan (of all people) thinks he can vote for a racist then... how mainstream have "racists" become?

trump's alleged order to his surrogates to call democrats and others calling him racist 'racist' in return sounded stupid initially but it might turn out to not be. 'racist' seems to be losing its edge - mainstream gopers now support people they themselves consider racist - so it becomes more like 'foolish' or 'stupid' rather than that virtue/class imprimatur that it used to be.

sure there is the NRO crowd who is still atoning to buckley's racism but that is a small subset of a suburban GOP. while i live in the city i am demographically the suburban type (married woman with kids, high income, ivy league degrees etc) and i am sticking with trump. not saying i am typical (i am not) but not sure nordlinger is either.

Posted by: kata at June 07, 2016 02:31 PM (+m6t7)

614
I'm just a black conservative that will not and cannot support someone like trump and his brand of white identity politics.

Oh God forbid somebody pander to the white working class which has all but been abandoned by both parties

Posted by: Flawless Male Logic at June 07, 2016 02:32 PM (lKyWE)

615 If Kershaw retired tomorrow, he's a Hall of Famer. If he keeps going at this pace, he has a chance to be in the best of all time argument.

Posted by: broseidon king of the brocean at June 07, 2016 02:21 PM (kumBu)

He also has to be one of the most fun pitchers I've watched - that deceptive herky-jerky movement and differing release points seem to be what gives batters fits. (Well, perfectly placed pitches too)

I think the only other pitcher who was so much fun to watch was Riviera. I was always amused that with Mariano, everyone knew what pitch was coming - the slider of death -and yet nobody could ever hit the damned thing.

Posted by: Donna and V. (sans ampersands at the present time) at June 07, 2016 02:32 PM (u0lmX)

616 565 Trumpets are so pathetic. Jay Nordinger wrote a very thoughtful piece, and him not supporting some blowhard like trump doesn't make him a liberal. No self respecting conservative should be anywhere near trump, with his ever changing positions, strong man tendencies. He is an embarrassment to the country.

Posted by: Raquel at June 07, 2016 01:58 PM (WMuZx)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Right. And I'm sure yours and Jay's righteous indignation will keep you warm during the coming economic collapse under Clinton. Highbrow intellectual principles are great until they cost you the entire nation you call home. You'll get an extra sheet on your bed at the gulag.

Posted by: deadrody at June 07, 2016 02:33 PM (W15tP)

617 Your Mayor is La Raza, the Castros are from SA and it will be a hot mess. Like mexican food in a baby diaper on a grill mess
Posted by: ThunderB at June 07, 2016 01:30 PM (zOTsN)

Our mayor is a black woman, and she was elected with white suburban money over Hispanic Leticia Van de Putte, who soiled herself running for Lt Gov when Wendy ran for gov.

There won't be any riots, unless by some chance Soros or whoever buses in goons from California.

We don't riot in San Antonio. We just don't..

Posted by: stace at June 07, 2016 02:33 PM (gr5t5)

618 Lookee at all the new nics.

Posted by: Count de Monet at June 07, 2016 02:34 PM (JO9+V)

619 I'd take Palin anyday over the sniveling GOP water-boys for the left.

Posted by: Pam at June 07, 2016 02:34 PM (cF0hS)

620 Highbrow intellectual principles are great until they cost you the entire nation you call home. You'll get an extra sheet on your bed at the gulag.

Posted by: deadrody at June 07, 2016 02:33 PM (W15tP)

Yep. And Sexypig will get two cups of gruel for her service to the Cause.

'Cause, you know, Irish lawyers. Or something.

Posted by: Donna and V. (sans ampersands at the present time) at June 07, 2016 02:35 PM (u0lmX)

621
Yep. And Sexypig will get two cups of gruel for her service to the Cause.
'Cause, you know, Irish lawyers. Or something.

Send me a link

Posted by: Uglyhog at June 07, 2016 02:37 PM (IqV8l)

622 Posted by: wasone at June 07, 2016 01:47 PM (nA3uK)

-

AMEN.

Posted by: SaltyDonnie at June 07, 2016 02:38 PM (i6shs)

623 "I think the only other pitcher who was so much fun to watch was Riviera. I was always amused that with Mariano, everyone knew what pitch was coming - the slider of death -and yet nobody could ever hit the damned thing.

Posted by: Donna and V. (sans ampersands at the present time) at June 07, 2016 02:32 PM (u0lmX) "

Bill Selby, a utility infielder for the Indians, hit a walk-off Grand Slam off of Mariano once. He did it right after backing up in the box, since Mo's cutter bores in on lefty hitters. He was able to get his arms extended and deposited one into the right field seats. It always surprised me how few players tried those kind of adjustments on Mo - obviously nothing was surefire, but just hacking away like normal was suicidal on that pitch.

Posted by: broseidon king of the brocean at June 07, 2016 02:43 PM (kumBu)

624 The chickens have come home to roost.

Posted by: Zeno at June 07, 2016 02:44 PM (mk1E9)

625 It's also a note to the Trump people, who pushed Trump, despite my
repeated warnings that if you do this, you will lose this quarter of the
party. I don't know how many times I cautioned that social status is
incredibly important to people, and few will voluntarily undertake any
action which results in a loss of social status.

We need to lose that quarter of the party. For years now the progressives have been driving the middle of the road Democrats to the GOP, and has served to pull both parties to the left. With the departure of the moderate Dems they move left, and with the arrival of those moderates in the GOP it moves left. Drive them back home and let them fight for the party that was always theirs.The fight they should have waged from the beginning. Let Krystal do what his father should have done.

Posted by: DFCtomm at June 07, 2016 02:47 PM (qGQUx)

626 test

Posted by: dt at June 07, 2016 02:48 PM (LEV7s)

627 We don't riot in San Antonio. We just don't..

Posted by: stace at June 07, 2016 02:33 PM (gr5t5)

Times they are a changin. This is a fourth turning, you probably only get one of those in a lifetime, and if you're old enough this is all you're going to know for the rest of your life, so you might as well settle in and try to learn to enjoy the chaos.

Posted by: DFCtomm at June 07, 2016 02:50 PM (qGQUx)

628 Can we bring back the idea of a national divorce?

Posted by: Conservative Yoda at June 07, 2016 02:51 PM (NBOA5)

629 Sorry, but this emotional "divorce" took place a long time ago when the IRS targeted the tea party and "elites" (I use that term advisedly too) barely managed to raise an eyebrow.

Posted by: GPQuartano at June 07, 2016 02:53 PM (XFFWZ)

630 IF only what you are to lose were a little social status.

What four more years, essentially , of 0 will produce will make the virtue-signaling, spineless social betters among us less...less in number for a variety of hard, cold reasons.

The number that WILL grow from this loss to 0/Herself will not be the social betters.

Posted by: Malignantly aggrieved and economically useless at June 07, 2016 02:54 PM (3ZttN)

631 The destruction of the GOP is the desired result. Trump isn't our candidate, he is our murder weapon.
The political parties, both of them, have long ossified into corrupt political theatre. Actual conservatives are simply done. If the choice is between @Ricky_Vaughn99 or Paul Ryan, we're going to go with Ricky. At least he isn't going to call us racist.
Yes, that means that a lot of people, possibly including Ace, are no longer going to be able to virtue-signal their social class and pretend to be conservative at the same time. Too bad. You guys have directed the conversation for 50 years, and it has led inexorably to the current untenable situation. It's now, according to the people who will leave the party, too late to do anything about abortion, or gay "marriage", Obamacare, and soon, sexually-disordered creeps in women's bathrooms.
There's no hill they are willing to die on, so they refuse as a matter of principle to actually defend any of their "principles". There's no violation of those principles they will not endorse, given 5 years or 2 election cycles.

They can go off with the people who want the future they're okay with, instead of the stupid unsophisticated racists they have to tolerate now.

Posted by: Danby at June 07, 2016 02:58 PM (PNULu)

632 Walking into this world, blinking, dew-eyed, and knowing nothing about it all works, the default, init level 0, is Liberal. It's why the young lean Left. It's why the uneducated lean so far Left.

The default setting of humanity is barbarism. Civilization is learned and passed on.

This "upper middle class" you speak of -- how many are even left? I am college educated, in International Relations and History no less. I'm an outlier, though, in my politics. All too typically, I found my studies were useless in the real world. As recently as ten years ago my job was unloading ocean freight containers with illegals.

But I've been a reader. There are reasons I nod along and enjoy the people taking on the SJW delusions. There is a reason I found Thomas Sowell's books on economics so inspiring, and especially why Heather MacDonald's "Burden of Bad Ideas" to utterly gut the Left-wing, Daddy-Will-Fix-It world view. Real world experience of government bureaucracies has only emboldened this.

All my friends are Left and Lefter. I swim in a sea of Blue. You are half right about the social agency involved in political decisions. However, I cannot be pressured into, say, thinking Hillary is anything but a crook. If ever I could turn off my brain and slide into an intellectual torpor to even allow such a scenario, the wide availability of better ideas on the Internet has made me immune.

I am an atheist. I don't believe in total abortion bans, and I'm not hot and bothered to give a damn about gay marriage. I've always voted, though, with the Values Right, because our principles align in a broader way.

Your analysis is wrong. Dead wrong. Keep in mind, with this massive loss coming, larger than Romney, every lesson you are trying to read into it is a bit too clever by half. You lose the Values people who are disgusted with Trump, and you lose half the Libertarian auxiliary like myself. (The other half, the feverish alt-righters, are of course delighted. How many decisions have they got?)

The insinuation is that us NeverTrump are somehow for Hillary. Or somehow _secretly_ for Hillary. Or maybe Hillary-curious. No. I cannot actually decide which is a worse scenario for our country. (Trump's trade war or Hillary's socialism? Both mean the economy and freedom suffer.) You are reading too much into this. It is a mistake that will continue to be repeated this year.

This is a grand mess. It also may be an opportunity. Maybe the atomization of the Right will lead to new coallitions? Who knows. If you ask me, the Left has bloated itself too much, where even Leftists I know, admit that Obamacare should have been done differently. Even they admit that socialism won't solve their problems.

Listen to the Bernie People. Half of them are deluded, (our children, 'Murika), and the other half just know deep inside that Hillary is despicable, but cannot bear the idea of going conservative. At least not yet.

This election would have been a gimme for a decent Republican. We've learned that the "deep bench" was a lot more shallow than we thought. That many of the so-called Values Voters are just sentimental fools who will abandon their principles for a Strong Daddy. A career con man has wormed his way up to the top of the Republican party, and will give the election away to Hillary.

Blame the intellectuals. But blame the illiterates as well.

Posted by: Leo Spaceman at June 07, 2016 03:08 PM (sKojJ)

633 By the way, the description of Jay Nordlinger was hilarious, and exactly what I have thought of his blog.

Posted by: Leo Spaceman at June 07, 2016 03:08 PM (sKojJ)

634 Spaceman- damn skippy.

Posted by: Peter at June 07, 2016 03:11 PM (Pc8rt)

635 @Donna and @Ace

Look as a black conservative I obviously left the liberal plantation to escape identity politics and the expectations game.

Who are you kidding trump is all for amnesty? Or you haven't been paying attention??? Seriously? Touchback amnesty and his extensive support for h1b visas. The wall with Mexico is a joke and unrealistic and will never happen, you know it and I know it.

And it's interesting that you played identity politics without even realizing it. I am all against amnesty and have made that clear, but you can't group all blacks together into one. Are you assuming we are all low skill idiots and only can manage meager low skill jobs?

As for the final reason I'd never vote for trump, is just the company he keeps the white nationalists and the trolls who threatened people, the closest to the left I have seen.

Posted by: Raquel at June 07, 2016 03:15 PM (WMuZx)

636 @deadroady

As far as I'm concerned there is no difference between trump and Hillary. Trump would destroy the gop for years to come, he is mentally unstable. He is unfit to be president.

I hope we can stop trump at the convention and unbind the delegates. That's our only hope.

Posted by: Raquel at June 07, 2016 03:20 PM (WMuZx)

637 Times they are a changin. This is a fourth turning, you probably only get one of those in a lifetime, and if you're old enough this is all you're going to know for the rest of your life, so you might as well settle in and try to learn to enjoy the chaos.
Posted by: DFCtomm at June 07, 2016 02:50 PM (qGQUx)

We don't do that here.

Posted by: stace at June 07, 2016 03:24 PM (S0w2h)

638 537:

Somewhat similar. It was hard to stay afterwards for me but I did. Those people beaten for attending a political rally in San Jose last weak deserve it. God knows the communists' cheerleaders among some self-proclaimed conservatives just Want. Them. Dead.

Great post.

Posted by: Trump poisoned my cat at June 07, 2016 03:24 PM (HmQEk)

639 (Trump's trade war or Hillary's socialism? Both
mean the economy and freedom suffer.)

Posted by: Leo Spaceman at June 07, 2016 03:08 PM (sKojJ)

You're whole story stinks like dead fish. You claim you've got a useless degree and that you've had to do manual labor(faint) with illegals, yet you think the economy is fine, since it has to be fine to suffer. This is why nobody pays any attention to your side when you toss out threats about the economy, and the disaster that Trump's trade policies will be. We just don't care. He isn't a disaster to us, since we've already had our disaster. The disaster you speak of is to you and your class.

Posted by: DFCtomm at June 07, 2016 03:25 PM (qGQUx)

640 488 Posted by: MTF, please excuse iphone spelling errors at June 07, 2016 01:29 PM (/m8T6)

Trump alone won't judge anything better than Hillary and would be less consistent, thus harder to predict and handle. The only positive is that Trump will supposedly have advisers that lean right and will hopefully guide Trump in the right direction.

Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck at June 07, 2016 01:33 PM (ktOIC)
---------------------------------------
My own view is founded on Trumps long experience in the private sector, particularly his development experience. Since real estate development feels economic cycles more acutely (and faster) than just about any other area of the economy I believe Trump will have a far better developed sense of economic policy.

That's why I said he will judge better than Hillary, a woman with essentially no experience of the private sector (except as a source of pay offs).

Posted by: MTF at June 07, 2016 03:25 PM (/m8T6)

641 Those who are appalled and leaving are in general the most guilty for having driven the GOP to this brink in the first place. It has "preached" conservative values which it has later proven to view as gobbledy gook. It has deceived the Tea Party since its inception. Now the "elites" are mad at those it has been hoodwinking and the other random and newly energized electorate who are "all in" for Trump.

Posted by: calmly_observing at June 07, 2016 03:26 PM (Tsb/c)

642 We don't do that here.

Posted by: stace at June 07, 2016 03:24 PM (S0w2h)

Normalcy bias is a bitch

Posted by: DFCtomm at June 07, 2016 03:29 PM (qGQUx)

643 My ideological position going forward is quite simple.
make trump president.. or I'm revolting

Posted by: bob at June 07, 2016 03:32 PM (1WcFV)

644 To everyone who says that Dump is the anti-GOPe candidate, why is he so cozy with all of them, and more importantly, why all the major establishment leaders cozying up to him? They are without principle and go wherever the winds are blowing. They'll switch to saying what he's saying, watered-down, of course, and then keep on keeping on. They'll mouth the new pieties, and then continue to do nothing, because their strategy of getting elected is to let the other side win, decry them, and count on voter anger to put themselves back in office. Trump plays at being anti-PC, but isn't. He's the capital class.

Posted by: Peter at June 07, 2016 03:36 PM (Pc8rt)

645 actually just about everyone is leaving the GOP

Posted by: bubba at June 07, 2016 03:41 PM (M2Zoe)

646 I left the GOP. But I didn't go with Nordlinger. I don't want anything to do with him and his crowd.

Trump IS because conservative politicians COULDN'T.

Movement conservatism, or political conservatism, or whatever you want to call it, failed.

I don't know what conservatives like me, like most of us here, can do in the political arena--can hope to accomplish. I just know that the old ways will not work.

The GOP is in it its death throes because its leaders failed us. Because even when they won elections they failed us. Because we now know, with a certainty, that they will always fail us.

The party deserves to die. And it will die.

We have to find another way.

Posted by: Steve (a.ka. Ed Snate) at June 07, 2016 03:57 PM (SCUgO)

647 The author of the above article is a fool. As a USMC I qualify for your designation of "unsophisticated and cruude". However, let me say from my heart, that if, I came across you on the side of the road on fire, I would not urinate on you in an attempt to put you out. That is how crude and unsophisticated I am.

Posted by: Tom at June 07, 2016 04:12 PM (5EZnF)

648 (Trump's trade war or Hillary's socialism? Both

mean the economy and freedom suffer.)

Posted by: Leo Spaceman at June 07, 2016 03:08 PM (sKojJ)

I'd like to elaborate more on this point. It's something that many in the GOP don't seem to understand. They cry that the sky is going to fall if Trump's economic policy is enacted. These are the same people that fanatically endorse complete and total free trade, and never, ever acknowledge that a trade deal might have unfavorable conditions. People like Kevin Williamson also claim that much of fly over country is lazy, drug addled and morally bankrupt, and they could care less if we're too lazy to be successful. Let's assume that all that is true.
That means that we've been cut out of the economy. We are free of those concerns, so why would you ever imagine your threats of disaster would matter to us? You might want to consider this as you scream that the sky is falling, and all we do is yawn. This sky is falling for you, not for us.

Posted by: DFCtomm at June 07, 2016 04:15 PM (qGQUx)

649 I am upper middle class, all I want and have wanted all my life is for a much smaller limited government . Democrats don't want that . Republicans claim they do , but they did everything they could to stop Cruz, even at the expense of now having a candidate like Trump who cares about nothing but money and sex, is an ignorant buffoon and a complete liar . I dont think the US government will survive for that much longer, the economy will collapse under Trump protectionist idiocy and it will slowly strangle under Hillary's increased regulation and foreign adventures. Moreover currency debasement will continue under both . It isnt possible for the government to fund all its its stupidities without buying its own bonds.

Posted by: mr burns at June 07, 2016 04:19 PM (1Arcq)

650 I admire Jay Nordlinger immensely and have for a long time. Your weak characterization of him Ace doesn't become this fine military blog.

Holding your nose and abandoning years of personal principles to vote for either of the con artists that are the presumptive nominees is the epitome of selling out to the festering corruption that is our political system.

Let it burn.

Posted by: what me worry? at June 07, 2016 04:24 PM (dZGNV)

651 639 (Trump's trade war or Hillary's socialism? Both
mean the economy and freedom suffer.)
(sKojJ)

You're whole story stinks like dead fish. You claim you've got a useless degree and that you've had to do manual labor(faint) with illegals, yet you think the economy is fine, since it has to be fine to suffer.

... The disaster you speak of is to you and your class.
Posted by: DFCtomm at June 07, 2016 03:25 PM (qGQUx)

===

I don't think the economy is fine. I think it stinks and Obama has been a disaster.

My class? Like I said, I got a useless college degree, but hauled heavy shit with my hands for shit pay, so I'm stating emphatically that I don't I'm too good for anything. I worked with the very illegals Trump is riding to victory, as well as the rednecks whose jobs they took.

I'm saying I empathize with the Trump train gripes. I understand them. But blaming this on intellectuals is too clever by half. There is a point to reading Heather MacDonald and Thomas Sowell. Being blue collar and uneducated is no excuse for being _illiterate_ in this day and age, and you don't get sympathy for abandoning Conservatism for Daddy-Will-Fix-It strongman politics. It doesn't end well. A history degree is pretty useless, but I learned that much.

I'm an outlier. Who knows? Maybe I only speak for a fraction to the right of a decimal percentage.

Posted by: Leo Spaceman at June 07, 2016 04:31 PM (wHDi7)

652 ***#113 ace at June 07, 2016 12:39 PM (dciA+)****

I think the 25% is perhaps exaggerated, but that is a matter of different judgment. The key point, as with the binary nature of the choices in the general, is that you can lose RINO's who really want to be Democrats, or you can lose most of the rest of the party who are really tired of being micturated upon from a very great height by those RINO's who really want to be Democrats. They [the RWRWTBD] seem to think that if Trump was removed by whatever means, that the rest of the party would tug their collective forelocks, cap in hand, and beg to be led by the RWRWTBD. Which gives a better chance for survival?

Posted by: Subotai Bahadur at June 07, 2016 04:47 PM (y0yvy)

653 Being blue collar and uneducated is no excuse for being
_illiterate_ in this day and age, and you don't get sympathy for
abandoning Conservatism for Daddy-Will-Fix-It strongman politics. It
doesn't end well. A history degree is pretty useless, but I learned that
much.

Posted by: Leo Spaceman at June 07, 2016 04:31 PM (wHDi7)

This is what you can't seem to figure out. Neither of those two choices have fixed anything. Conservatism is being abandoned because it's failed in practice not in theory. Everybody likes the concept of small government, and free trade in theory, but the way the GOP has been practicing those principles has caused them great damage. People like you then turn around and blame us for that damage. It's important to realize that a thing, no matter how beautiful, must function in the real world, otherwise it's just a fable, a fairy tale, or myth.

Posted by: DFCtomm at June 07, 2016 05:19 PM (qGQUx)

654 Normalcy bias is a bitch
Posted by: DFCtomm at June 07, 2016 03:29 PM (qGQUx)

We don't do that here.

Posted by: stace at June 07, 2016 05:39 PM (ozZau)

655 Trump was stupid to bring up the judge... not because he is wrong, necessarily, tho he should have specified the LaRaza connection, not just "Mexican," which was a YUUGE mistake--but he should have just sat on his ass and let San Jose play for a couple more days.

he's like a comic who stepped on his best line.

When does he figure out, it isn't the GOP primary any more, and he needs to broaden his brand a lot. He can't keep just shoving out the same raw meat as in January--he needs something different now, and if he can't get into that mode quickly, it's all over, no matter how bad Clinton is.

And, you can always count on the GOP Circular Firing Squad to do the Democrats' work for them. Ryan, et al couldn't wait a couple of days to see the polling, they have to prove their liberal bona fides to people who will NEVER support them, anyway.

Stupid Party

Posted by: mhjhnsn at June 07, 2016 05:49 PM (FZdvr)

656 653

... Conservatism is being abandoned because it's failed in practice not in theory. Everybody likes the concept of small government, and free trade in theory, but the way the GOP has been practicing those principles has caused them great damage. People like you then turn around and blame us for that damage. It's important to realize that a thing, no matter how beautiful, must function in the real world, otherwise it's just a fable, a fairy tale, or myth.
Posted by: DFCtomm at June 07, 2016 05:19 PM (qGQUx)

===

I don't get the end game, here. I agree we haven't Republicans -- esp Dubyuh -- that interested in small government. Dubyuh expanded the government, and it blew up. Obama doubled down on that.

If you're saying, hey, in fact a bunch of people actually like big guv'ment, I agree with you. People are wrong, but they want more guv'ment programs.

Some things are worth standing for. I believe scaling down government in the most modest ways -- such as privatizing the TSA and, say, scaling back on "too big to fail." These things poll well.

I don't know what you mean blaming "you." Like I said, I'm one of those people who read conservative "intellectuals", and my life is better for it. I'm no stranger to blue collar work, and I've seen the downside of massive, uncontrolled immigration.

If Trump was ever going to rise to the occasion, and win over people like me, I'm still waiting.

Posted by: Leo Spaceman at June 07, 2016 06:29 PM (grN2q)

657 I don't get the end game, here.
Posted by: Leo Spaceman at June 07, 2016 06:29 PM (grN2q)

I thought you were a student of history? What is the end game for all empire? The way you talk gives the impression that you think there is something that can be done, and that either you or I know what that something is. I don't know that there is anything that can be done. We don't avoid this we go through it, and we may or may not come out the other side. Matter can't be destroyed so we'll come out the other side, but the question is what level of disassembly will have occurred.

Posted by: DFCtomm at June 07, 2016 06:50 PM (qGQUx)

658 My first comment here. There is something to be said for the Upper Middle Class #NeverTrump/Democrat overlap that Ace discusses. Although, I think some of the #NeverTrump types are more conservative than Ace gives them credit. Also, Marco Rubio, but whatevs. Watching Megan Kelly's crazy focus group, and an aggressive Hillary woman voter shouts down a woman supporting Trump and his immigration position by yelling "Who mows your lawn and who cleans your toilet and who watches your kids?" To which the Trump lady replied "I do!" I was #NeverTrump. I'm not anymore, but I am a Johnny Come Lately to the upper middle class and we don't have the same life experiences as the middle class.

Posted by: Katiedid at June 07, 2016 10:07 PM (hQoJM)

659 Ace, you're going to have to wear a dress and call yourself Bruce when Trump wins.

You have to do something when you're proven wrong.

What will it be?

Posted by: Pastorius at June 07, 2016 10:15 PM (gMAUH)

660 Nordlinger points out that Trump

- opposes entitlement reform.

- opposes free trade.

- praises Planned Parenthood

- denounces NATO

- praises Obama's capitulation to Castro

I could add

- endorses the Kelo decision

So objecting to all that makes him a RINO, a flip to liberalism?

All that before one considers Trump's appalling character. Which is very upper class: typical of an entitled rich boy who thinks his money buys him the deference of anyone who isn't rich.

Posted by: Rich Rostrom at June 08, 2016 12:08 AM (YkV15)

661 I'm really getting to where I hope Gary Johnson can do some damage. I've got a few problems with him, his support of the crushing hand of Govt forcing people to do what they don't want because we need to be nice, but I think he's still far better than the other two ultra leftist that will be in the 3 person race.

Hopefully the Bernie supporters hate Hillary enough, and notice Johnson loves him some pot, and they jump on board, because let's face it, a majority of them are too stupid to know what they're actually voting for and will switch on that major issue alone.

Posted by: Rbastid at June 08, 2016 02:41 AM (XwTyM)

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