Quick Explanation and Apology

Some people, like JackStraw and Chique d'Afrique, are objecting to my post yesterday saying #NeverTrumpers, now having no other vehicle but Hillary F'n' Clinton, should go "radio silent."

I got myself into trouble here by disguising who I was talking about. No matter how many times I do this -- attempting to obscure the people I mean -- and no matter how many times it winds up burning me because people then assume I meant them, I keep doing it.

So, let me be clear:

I was prompted to write that post after reading Charles Murray's Hate-Trump piece at NRO, seeing Ben Shapiro's here's-how-a-Trump-presidency-could-go-wrong piece, and dozen other #NeverTrump pieces.

Then I saw Brad Thor praising Andrew Sullivan for noting that Trump -- not Obama, but Trump -- was the vehicle by which fascism would come to America, and Bill Kristol yet again pushing some Phantom Candidate who could be anyone but who sure looks a lot like Hillary Clinton.

Then I clicked over to Red State, a site I never read, just to see if they were continuing their wall-to-wall #NeverTrump coverage, and they were.

I thought I should write about this. It wasn't just one piece -- I could give a shit about one piece. It was the welter of so many pieces making the same claims.

And apparently the 100% unanimity among the self-proclaimed Thought Leaders of the right, without even noting that Trump has the support of something like 87% of Republicans.

How can such a disconnect not even be noted? Doesn't anyone feel like they should have a guest poster to make the opposite case just to do some minimal due diligence in reflecting the 87% of the party which apparently supports Trump?

I find this kind of unanimity of official opinion repulsive, as I always do. It always makes me angry. I don't know why. I just always has.

But I certainly didn't mean that ordinary citizens should stop expressing themselves.

However, it does seem strange to me that people all over the right are not only continuing to demolish the candidate, even though we no longer have any other avenue by which to challenge a third Obama term, but that this is now apparently unchallengeable Received Wisdom among major right-side outlets and among major right-side thinkers.

Look, I don't like Trump. Most of you know that.

But you know why I'm even political at all? Because of Bill Clinton and his repulsive Lady Macbeth wife.

So the idea that it would now be the bog-standard, vanilla, uncontroversial, and indeed nigh-unopposed position among so many organs of the right that we're now kind of in the electing-Hillary-Clinton business seemed to me to be a rather bad one, and worthy of challenge.

No, I didn't mean you should stop debating this issue yourself.

But I sure would like to see some diversity of thought on the question from the communcative organs of the right. It seems to me that it should not be a settled question -- unworthy of even a moment's consideration -- that we are now all #WithHer.

So yeah, I was suggesting, maybe, a time-out among these outlets, and maybe a choice of topics -- like legislation or the GOP's sell-out on transgendered bathrooms made in the dead of night last night -- rather than simply destroying the only person actually running against Hillary Clinton.

It occurs to me that the frenetic Stop Trump movement began too late -- and now is ending too late as well.

Timing.

In 2002, after the Republicans won (unexpectedly) more seats in Congress, Bill Kristol observed of the Democrats and their increasingly extremist rhetoric: "They're driving themselves crazy."

By which he meant that, in response to an unexpected set-back, the party was going bananas in emotional spiralling.

Let me suggest that we take a few seconds and a few deep breaths to consider if something like that is going on in our party at the current moment.

We're a little bit angry now. But the thing is, the more you repeat something, the more invested you become in it -- ego is now on the line. You said it, so it's reality!

I can't tell you how many people answered my question "Are we now all on Team Hillary?" with the ego-based reasoning, "Yeah, well maybe when we said #NeverTrump we really meant it."

Oh? You said it, ergo it is binding forever? Well that's a terrifically reasoned position that certainly has nothing to do with ego, emotion, wounded pride, and an affront to one's tribal privileges.

I understand Trump is a brutish know-nothing. But perhaps we could all do well to take a pause and a breath to get some perspective -- are we really now on Team Hillary?

By the way, my special podcast guest today is Ben Shapiro. I'll be discussing this issue with him in an hour.

At the Risk of Poking the Hornet's Nest... I would also call for what I've been calling for for two years: A little introspection from people who have lost the public's trust as to why they lost the public's trust, instead of retreating to the comfortable but counterproductive Obama-like position of "We're too good for them" or "Our pearls are lost before such swine" and "We only failed in our messaging in explaining how wonderful we are."

There's a reason the "conservative movement," such as it is, failed.

And it did fail. Let me propose, to the stunned silence of the crowd, that maybe conservatism is not at the moment an electorally-winning set of policies, and needs some fine-tuning and even some general rethinking.

It would be a useful inquiry to discover why that occurred, instead of just saying, as liberals do, "Republicans are stupid, racist, and afraid of The Other."

Posted by: Ace at 02:57 PM




Comments

(Jump to bottom of page)

1 Not to worry.

Posted by: HH at May 26, 2016 02:58 PM (DrCtv)

2 Dont these morons know that you dont read the comments?

Posted by: Bruce With a Wang! at May 26, 2016 03:00 PM (iQIUe)

3 Still firmly in the burn it down camp, but still not sure what comes out on the other side.

Posted by: Tinfoilbaby at May 26, 2016 03:01 PM (6Ll1u)

4 "Dont these morons know that you dont read the comments?"

We have comments?

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at May 26, 2016 03:01 PM (ptqRm)

5 Heard Hugh Hewitt reading Charles Murray's hate piece on the radio and was appalled. Cant believe anyone would have anything to do with that psycho Andrew Sullivan. The man is mentally ill. That obsession he has with Palin's womb is mental illness. Shame on you, Thor!

Posted by: Bruce With a Wang! at May 26, 2016 03:02 PM (iQIUe)

6 Indeed. A good summary, and an answer as to why keep coming back...

Posted by: Anon a mouse... at May 26, 2016 03:02 PM (C9pBZ)

7 Hey Ace I was just kidding a wordplay on Trump...

//Brad Thor

Posted by: sven10077 at May 26, 2016 03:03 PM (g8Hfr)

8 People always take stuff personally.

Posted by: @votermom at May 26, 2016 03:03 PM (7lVbc)

9
Posting repeatedly in one form or another that people voting for Trump can FOAD is not exactly debate.

Posted by: Bruce With a Wang! at May 26, 2016 03:04 PM (iQIUe)

10 Trump is going to be the guy. If they don't like it, fine. Work on getting more guys like Cruz into the Senate and House. Think how awesome it would be if everything Trump had to sign into law was authored by Cruz, and Lee etc.
But no these pompous fools would rather see everything go down in flames. Maniacs!

Posted by: Iblis at May 26, 2016 03:04 PM (9221z)

11 Yeah, I can't understand the people who think that Trump will be allowed by the media and the establishment to institute Fascism.

Well, I can understand it. They don't know what Fascism is.

Posted by: Stephen Price Blair at May 26, 2016 03:04 PM (2lndx)

12 Some good writing there, Ace.

Now can I post these pictures of Lilly?

Including at least one in a bikini

http://wp.me/peIJr-3Pef

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at May 26, 2016 03:04 PM (ptqRm)

13
"I certainly didn't mean that ordinary citizens should stop expressing themselves."

===========

I'm not ordinary - I'm special.

Posted by: Bruce With a Wang! at May 26, 2016 03:04 PM (iQIUe)

14 Here is my perspective on what is happening in America today based on the Lord of the Rings. From LoTR: the city contains the GOPe, the mainstream Republicans, and the "conservatives".
The orcs are the left - the SJWs, the BLM, La Raza, and all the other "identity groups", the communists, socialists, and globalists.
The riders of Rohan are the forces of Trump, American nationalists, and the alt-right.
The giant elephant battle beasts are the Main Stream Media. With that as context, now watch these 2 clips.
http://tinyurl.com/qc7c2ob
http://tinyurl.com/zjay2e3

Posted by: Bellator Mortalis at May 26, 2016 03:05 PM (BeYLL)

15 While this should never have needed to be said... good on you for taking the time to reach out. Part of being mature is doing what shouldn't need to be, to reach out to others.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at May 26, 2016 03:05 PM (39g3+)

16 5 Posted by: Bruce With a Wang! at May 26, 2016 03:02 PM (iQIUe)

Brad Thor is wishing a Patriot would remove a troublesome Trump who can't be impeached via bullet....

quick question for Mr. Thor....

did I miss you ever being this impassioned about Obama?

Posted by: sven10077 at May 26, 2016 03:05 PM (g8Hfr)

17 Sorta willowed - I break down that anti-Trump manifesto that CBD posted about yesterday - the one signed by a bunch authors.
(In nic)

Posted by: @votermom at May 26, 2016 03:05 PM (7lVbc)

18 I understood what you meant the first time round Ace.

Posted by: Nevergiveup at May 26, 2016 03:05 PM (Ozsfq)

19 >>So yeah, I was suggesting, maybe, a time-out among these outlets, and
maybe a choice of topics -- like legislation or the GOP's sell-out on
transgendered bathrooms made in the dead of night last night -- rather
than simply destroying the only person actually running against Hillary
Clinton.



This is where I am, too.
Kneecapping Trump at this point is kneecapping ourselves. And it does help Hillary, regardless of whether you vote for her or not.

And I am so pissed at these same conservative thinkers and writers who hae lectured us in many past elections that we have to support this or that RINO because...whatever.

Ugh. What a freakin clownshow this all is.

Posted by: Lizzy at May 26, 2016 03:05 PM (NOIQH)

20 This is all so confusing.

Posted by: Weasel at May 26, 2016 03:05 PM (6xtq3)

21 Podcast sounds cool.

The thing is... NRO, Shapiro, RedState - in the grand scheme of things, those are such minor outlets with tiny audiences. The mainstream, wide-audience conservative media - FOX, most talk show hosts - are firmly on the Trump train. So is the vast, vast majority of the GOPe. Against all of that, why is the thin, strained mewl of the marginalized #NeverTrump so objectionable? Were they to back Trump, wouldn't they simply be leaving a tiny cult for a much bigger one?

Posted by: person at May 26, 2016 03:05 PM (mFkVC)

22 None of the Above.

Let it burn.

Posted by: Bea Arthur's Dick at May 26, 2016 03:06 PM (pldrX)

23 That Vanytrub girl really doesn't do much for me. She'd cute like the Wendy's girl, but that's just it. Just, cute, like your niece or something. But I'm a face guy, not a boobs guy so...

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at May 26, 2016 03:06 PM (39g3+)

24 Lets try this again

I was prompted to write that post after reading Charles Murray's Hate-Trump piece at NRO


I gave up on NRO years ago, They have always been an RNCe can do no wrong site and have never been conservative because the RNCe has never been conservative.


But since the RNCe has drifted even more into the unity party, so have they.


The best thing to do with NRO is ignore them and move on.

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at May 26, 2016 03:06 PM (vvmPQ)

25 Deeply disappointed in Brad Thor. Guess I don't need to buy any more of his books.

Posted by: jjod at May 26, 2016 03:06 PM (3UYA8)

26 Posted by: Bruce With a Wang! at May 26, 2016 03:04 PM (iQIUe)

Not only that, but all of a sudden posters show up that we've never seen before, as NGU has often pointed out.

Posted by: HH at May 26, 2016 03:06 PM (DrCtv)

27 I was under the impression that only personal attacks were verboten. Half the fun here is yelling at whomever you disagree with about whatever you disagree with about.
And Hillary is a crook.

Posted by: mallflower at May 26, 2016 03:07 PM (qSIlh)

28 The very people that you are asking to take a time out have made their living off of, and intent to continue to live of of the tit of the Obama/Clinton regime.

How's that saying go again?
The pigs with the most to lose will squeal the loudest when the trough is empty.

Posted by: IP at May 26, 2016 03:07 PM (aQQbl)

29 Fair enough, ace. I've said multiple times that I will never vote for Hillary and that Trump still has over 5 months to convince me that he deserves my vote.

Posted by: broseidon king of the brocean at May 26, 2016 03:07 PM (kumBu)

30 What of Heidi?

Posted by: garrett at May 26, 2016 03:07 PM (klBFi)

31 Ace, there is a reason it's called the Stupid Nutless Party cuz the Manhattan wing of the GOP is both Stupid and Nutless. Just sayin.

Posted by: Puddin Head at May 26, 2016 03:07 PM (oDCMR)

32 "That Vanytrub girl really doesn't do much for me. "


In the right lighting and makeup, she is attractive.

And cute.

But she does rock that blue shirt.

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at May 26, 2016 03:08 PM (ptqRm)

33 You're right, a strong negative reaction to Trump started too late. There were a few voices out there pointing out that man is/was a clown-shaped piece of orange shit (copyright AoS), but for some wack-a-doodle reason, the media drowned them out with wall-to-wall Trump coverage, very little of it negative. Go figure.

But that's water under the bridge now. Trump's our candidate. SCOTUS is too important, and electing Trump gives us at least a small chance of nominating a conservative. And as small and insignificant as my own voice is, my criticism of him will be muted between now and 9 November 2016. After that, though, watch out -- if you thought I was an insufferable asshole before, Bruce baby, you're in for a wild fuckin ride. I am constructing an I-told-you-so crossbow as we speak.

Posted by: Pastafarian at May 26, 2016 03:08 PM (LqrRo)

34 26
Deeply disappointed in Brad Thor. Guess I don't need to buy any more of his books.

Posted by: jjod at May 26, 2016 03:06 PM (3UYA

No kidding. I used to like him.

Posted by: Sixkiller at May 26, 2016 03:08 PM (pcyHg)

35 did I miss you ever being this impassioned about Obama?

This is my concern. These guys seem so much more worked up about Trump than they ever were about Obama, or are about Hillary.

Seriously?

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at May 26, 2016 03:08 PM (39g3+)

36 Was Brad Thor the guy who claimed to be Sergeant in Viet Nam at the ripe age of 8 or 9...?

Posted by: scrood at May 26, 2016 03:08 PM (3b9U4)

37 Yeah, I can't understand the people who think that Trump will be allowed by the media and the establishment to institute Fascism.

-----

Ive said this before, but thats hyperbole. Illustrating an argumentative point by holding up the extreme position to make your point can be a good thing.

Believing your own bullshit and painting yourself into a rhetorical corner with no way out is quite another thing altogether.

Posted by: fixerupper at May 26, 2016 03:08 PM (8XRCm)

38 >> Deeply disappointed in Brad Thor. Guess I don't need to buy any more of his books.


I stopped buying books a long time ago.

...batteries, too.

Posted by: Uncle Leo at May 26, 2016 03:08 PM (klBFi)

39 are we getting our 30 pieces of Silver today?

Posted by: mallflower at May 26, 2016 03:09 PM (qSIlh)

40 I'm not #NeverTrump by any stretch of the imagination, but I think it's important that we continue to make it clear to him that he hasn't closed this deal yet. I fully expect that he'll back out of every campaign promise he's made so far, especially given how he's walking everything back already, if he's not continually pressed to do something than take the path of least resistance.

Posted by: Xander Crews at May 26, 2016 03:10 PM (I3uDE)

41 Vmom:

I'm thinking of setting up shop nitpicking manuscripts at this level of detail, what do you think?

I think its a good idea. Not only is it a golden business opportunity, but you show you understand story flow, grammar, story writing, and fiction very clearly.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at May 26, 2016 03:10 PM (39g3+)

42 "even though we no longer have any other avenue by which to challenge a third Obama term"

This has been an odd election year. Given the horrendous polling of the two (likely) major party nominees, as well as the electorate's willingness to entertain a third party option, I don't understand why those of you who are social liberals, but fiscal conservatives (not to mention hating the Iraq War and other overseas adventures), aren't at least considering backing the Libertarian candidate. Their convention is this weekend.

Why not try to co-opt the Libertarian Party the way Trump has co-opted the GOP?

I'm not a particularly libertarian conservative, but it occurred to me that AFAIK neither Johnson nor Petersen have shown the types of character flaws that concern me in Hillary and Trump. So I'm considering backing their candidate.

Hell, in Kentucky he might even have a shot.

Posted by: Y-not (@moxiemom) at May 26, 2016 03:10 PM (t5zYU)

43 Lilly is adorable.

And her elbows are exquisite.

Posted by: garrett at May 26, 2016 03:10 PM (klBFi)

44 From yesterday's Radio Silence thread:

51 "So I have to ask: At this point, what is the point of the #NeverTrump impulse?"


Because Trump came out and beat all of the Campaign Consultants, he beat all of the Professional Pundits. He has done great damaged to the reputations (and future income streams) of many people in Washington and New York. How many millions were blown on studies, and strategies, and ads, and consultants, and chin-pullers, and the High Priests of the Temple of the GOP? Trump walks in and drops their idol right on the ground in front of him.

They hate him because their rice bowls are in jeopardy and bringing him down is their Leyte Gulf mission. Besides, a Hillary administration promises to bring in plenty of donations to the Consultants and Pundits who promise, promise, promise to thwart her at every turn.

Posted by: *Mikey NTH - Lighter Fluid, Charcoal, and Othe Car-Be-Cue Supplies at the Outrage Outlet at May 25, 2016 04:28 PM (hLRSq)


I still stand by that theory about most of the professional #NeverTrump people.

Posted by: *Mikey NTH - Lighter Fluid, Charcoal, and Othe Car-Be-Cue Supplies at the Outrage Outlet at May 26, 2016 03:10 PM (hLRSq)

45 Somebody just got thumped.

And I didn't recognize the precious metal based name either.

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at May 26, 2016 03:10 PM (ptqRm)

46 What was the bathroom sellout??

Posted by: gm at May 26, 2016 03:10 PM (4ueYo)

47 26 Not only that, but all of a sudden posters show up that we've never seen before, as NGU has often pointed out.

Posted by: HH at May 26, 2016 03:06 PM (DrCtv)

That happens every election cycle. It is the invasion of the paid election trolls. Ignore them. I see we have a few here today.

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at May 26, 2016 03:10 PM (vvmPQ)

48 Thanks, Ace.

I like Ben Shapiro. He and Andrew Klavan are my Rush Limbaugh replacements, and I really enjoy them.

Shapiro isn't hysterical about not supporting Trump. I don't even think he's technically #neverTrump. (Ugh, how I hate silly hashtags.) He calls out the leftists rioters and mocks Clinton, in addition to criticizing Trump. (And he was a Cruz guy. And started out actually liking Trump,like a lot of us.)

And as Levin says, if we all obediently fall in line, what chance do we have to at least try to influence him in the right direction.

It's the same as a human relationship. If your boyfriend/girlfriend treats you like crap and you do nothing about it but keep on going along with him/her, what are the chances the jerk will change?

Anyway, I'm looking forward to the podcast with him.

Posted by: chique d'afrique, former Republican at May 26, 2016 03:10 PM (uz/Pv)

49 >>> By the way, my special podcast guest today is Ben Shapiro.

Hoo-boy, this will be fun. Watched him recently on the Crowder podcasts going apoplectic over Trump.

Posted by: antisocial justice beatnik at May 26, 2016 03:11 PM (jV8Mq)

50 34 Posted by: OregonMuse at May 26, 2016 03:05 PM (N1Wpo)

I still do, but he is being an absolute total hypocrite.

Either he thinks Obama is ok and his reader base's view of him is nuts....

or he is silent on Obama relative to Trump b/c RACE!

or he is sincere in thinking Trump is worse than Obama....

None of those speak well of his judgement.

Posted by: sven10077 at May 26, 2016 03:11 PM (g8Hfr)

51 "And I am so pissed at these same conservative thinkers and writers who hae lectured us in many past elections that we have to support this or that RINO because...whatever.

Ugh. What a freakin clownshow this all is.

Posted by: Lizzy at May 26, 2016 03:05 PM (NOIQH) "

The shoe is on the other foot for both sides. The people who used to say that dissenters needed to hold their nose and vote for Rino Candidate X to stop Democrat Candidate Y from destroying America are now saying that their principles won't allow them to vote for Trump. The people who used to say that their principles wouldn't allow them to vote for Rino Candidate X are now saying that everyone else needs to hold their nose and vote Trump to stop Democrat Candidate Y from destroying America.

And it is, indeed, a freakin clownshow.

Posted by: broseidon king of the brocean at May 26, 2016 03:11 PM (kumBu)

52 Word to person in the above comment!

RE: "or the GOP's sell-out on transgendered bathrooms . . . "

Right -- that's one of several thousand such sell-outs from the past eight years and *the primary reason* why I don't vote for liberals nominated by the GOP.

We simply can't go on like this.

We must have a conservative opposition party.

Nothing else matters to me, much less another liberal president from the party of the Democrats.

We can't go on like this.

**And we won't.**

The leaders of the Republican Party will have another eight years of sitting there, figuring out if they'd like to become a conservative opposition party, or continue on with their unprincipled, corrupt, perverted, lying, hypocritical acts and speech as the Republican wing of the Washington Party.

Of course, I'd like for them to choose to become a conservative opposition party, so that we don't have another 50 like this very sad 16 years.


Posted by: Igor at May 26, 2016 03:11 PM (hyZLL)

53 This is my concern. These guys seem so much more worked up about Trump than they ever were about Obama, or are about Hillary.

Seriously?
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at May 26, 2016 03:08 PM (39g3+)
-----------------

I suspect many of them, Shapiro particularly, feel Trump can absolutely kill Movement Conservatism in a way that Obama never could. Obama was an extreme example of the awful Conservatism was defined to fight. Trump is coming in to kick them out of their only existing electoral vehicle, to coopt media outlets that professed to support them, to marginalize Constitutional Conservatism completely. Obama, Hillary... they could never have done that.

Posted by: person at May 26, 2016 03:11 PM (mFkVC)

54 Yes trump in My opinion is a buffoon.... But He's Our buffoon..... I can't tell You how terrified I am of a Hillary! Presidency... The stuff of which nightmares are made...

Posted by: donna at May 26, 2016 03:11 PM (O2RFr)

55 Meh. I liked Cruz, can live with Trump over Hilary. He's getting better as he goes, so far.

Not gonna get hysterical about Trump, either way.

Posted by: West at May 26, 2016 03:11 PM (raBzy)

56 Meanwhile Trump is flaming Elizabeth Warren live and in real time. The lead will be our betters getting the vapors about how rude he is, meanwhile her odious deception will be out there for all to see. And it took that odious madman to get the story out, not our well-heeled "thought leaders."

Being aggressive on offense is fun. It's a nice change.

Posted by: Alex #11 at May 26, 2016 03:12 PM (EUMt/)

57 If you Google "Things You Didn't Know About AT&T Spokesperson Lilly" you will find a video that gives a lot of really cool info about her.

Posted by: Sharkman at May 26, 2016 03:12 PM (82dwe)

58 Why not try to co-opt the Libertarian Party the way Trump has co-opted the GOP?

I'm not a particularly libertarian conservative, but it occurred to me that AFAIK neither Johnson nor Petersen have shown the types of character flaws that concern me in Hillary and Trump. So I'm considering backing their candidate.

Hell, in Kentucky he might even have a shot.
Posted by: Y-not (@moxiemom) at May 26, 2016 03:10 PM (t5zYU)

Open borders, religious liberty (Johnson), social leftism, party obsession with weed.

No thanks.

Posted by: chique d'afrique, former Republican at May 26, 2016 03:12 PM (uz/Pv)

59 46 Posted by: gm at May 26, 2016 03:10 PM (4ueYo)

Last night 45 "Republicans" crossed the aisle and passed the Democrats' Tranny Bathroom Joy for Contractors in Govt Amendment to the appropriations bill...

Why it is almost like Ryan works for Obama.

Posted by: sven10077 at May 26, 2016 03:12 PM (g8Hfr)

60 WTF is anyone worried about Trump ruling by EO when we have a President in office doing it RIGHT DAMN NOW ?

Posted by: Seems Legit at May 26, 2016 03:13 PM (U+nHb)

61 IMHO, there are a number of equally defensible positions.

- Trump sucks, but Hillary is worse, so I'm voting for Trump.

- Trump isn't as bad as Hillary, but he's still not good enough to vote for, so I'm not voting for Trump.

- We're screwed either way, so what does it matter how I vote?

- We're screwed either way, but at least I can be gratified if Cankles suffers a humiliating loss to Count Stubbyfingers.

So, chillax everybody.

Posted by: V the K at May 26, 2016 03:13 PM (O7MnT)

62 And as Levin says, if we all obediently fall in line, what chance do we have to at least try to influence him in the right direction.

----

Thats the point. NONE whatesover if you actively support Hillary.




Not YOU literally. But the others that said they are voting for her.

Posted by: fixerupper at May 26, 2016 03:13 PM (8XRCm)

63 Fair enough, ace. I've said multiple times that I will never vote for Hillary and that Trump still has over 5 months to convince me that he deserves my vote.
Posted by: broseidon king of the brocean

This. I can't stand Trump, but I love the Republic more than I hate Trump. It's a crazy guy who rants endlessly but doesn't hate me vs. a corrupt harpy who wants to send me to the reeducation camps. I'm not totally sold but I could be.

Posted by: MaureenTheTemp at May 26, 2016 03:13 PM (0C92K)

64
#ImWithHer

Ben Howe (Red State editor) May 3, 2016

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at May 26, 2016 03:13 PM (kdS6q)

65 Y-not the Libertarian party is full of Libertines...

Open Borders/Gun Point Cake Baking and Gun Confiscation are not a good starting point for a coalition.

Posted by: sven10077 at May 26, 2016 03:13 PM (g8Hfr)

66 "Seriously?

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at May 26, 2016 03:08 PM (39g3+) "

Actually, I understand that perfectly. It's the tribal aspect. It was the other tribe that supported Obama. Of course they're all morons - if they were right thinking people, they'd be in our tribe.

Well now, people are watching their supposed tribal confreres flocking to a man that they despise and think is antithetical to what they've worked their entire careers supporting. I think it's highly predictable that these people are lashing out in every which way.

Posted by: broseidon king of the brocean at May 26, 2016 03:13 PM (kumBu)

67 "Things You Didn't Know About AT&T Spokesperson Lilly"

And, here we go...

Posted by: garrett at May 26, 2016 03:13 PM (klBFi)

68 This is my concern. These guys seem so much more worked up about Trump than they ever were about Obama, or are about Hillary.

Seriously?
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at May 26, 2016 03:08 PM (39g3+)

I think this is the whole "fear to be called racist/sexist" thing. It is the only thing I can see as explaining the level of vitriol here but not before. Or maybe they just did not realize how bad it actually would be under Obama.

Plus, I still think it has to do with them not wanting Trump to be the face of THEIR movement. It is strange. I can understand the idea, but I do not, in any way, think Trump embodies any particular movement aside from border security.

Posted by: Aetius451AD at May 26, 2016 03:14 PM (3ZoRf)

69 Brad Thor is virtue signalling. But he's too dumb to know when to stop.


And this Vayntrub person is very nice.

Posted by: eleven -- unenthused trumpchump at May 26, 2016 03:14 PM (qUNWi)

70 Kneecapping Trump at this point is kneecapping
ourselves. And it does help Hillary, regardless of whether you vote for
her or not.

And I am so pissed at these same conservative
thinkers and writers who hae lectured us in many past elections that we
have to support this or that RINO because...whatever.

Ugh. What a freakin clownshow this all is.


Posted by: Lizzy at May 26, 2016 03:05 PM (NOIQH)

This.
Folks that get all 'holier-than-thou' and claim they'll sit this election out don't seem to realize that even if they don't vote, they're still voting, whether they go to a voting both or not. They just have to figure out who the 'no vote' actually helps.

Posted by: Sixkiller at May 26, 2016 03:14 PM (pcyHg)

71 aren't at least considering backing the Libertarian candidate.

Gun control, borders, etc.


I suspect many of them, Shapiro particularly, feel Trump can absolutely kill Movement Conservatism in a way that Obama never could.


I strongly doubt they even consider that. I think they are horrified that this guy they consider a TV buffoon, a shallow, embarrassing clown is their option and are becoming hysterical about it. The future of conservatism is not in the hands of one politician for good or ill.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at May 26, 2016 03:14 PM (39g3+)

72 I don't want to know about Lily.

I'm just lookin dammit.

Posted by: eleven -- unenthused trumpchump at May 26, 2016 03:14 PM (qUNWi)

73 And I am so pissed at these same conservative thinkers and writers who hae lectured us in many past elections that we have to support this or that RINO because...whatever.

Posted by: Lizzy at May 26, 2016 03:05 PM (NOIQH)


You nailed it, Lizzy. With the GOPe, it's "heads I win, tails you lose." Always.

F 'em.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at May 26, 2016 03:15 PM (8ZskC)

74 Being aggressive on offense is fun. It's a nice change.
Posted by: Alex #11 at May 26, 2016 03:12 PM (EUMt/)

Lolol, I love it when Trump trolls Hillary, Fauxcahontas and other deserving people.

However it doesn't mean out support him just because some of his tweets are funny and his stand up routine during his rallies is entertaining. I'm not voting for Trump or Hillary, but I think it's going to be a really entertaining season and I plan to indulge in lots of popcorn.

Posted by: chique d'afrique, former Republican at May 26, 2016 03:15 PM (uz/Pv)

75 I suspect many of them, Shapiro particularly, feel Trump can absolutely kill Movement Conservatism in a way that Obama never could. Obama was an extreme example of the awful Conservatism was defined to fight. Trump is coming in to kick them out of their only existing electoral vehicle, to coopt media outlets that professed to support them, to marginalize Constitutional Conservatism completely. Obama, Hillary... they could never have done that.
Posted by: person at May 26, 2016 03:11 PM (mFkVC)

Well and better said than I did.

Posted by: Aetius451AD at May 26, 2016 03:15 PM (3ZoRf)

76 First rule of a bar fight is don't question the purity of your fellow gang members. Jeepers - NeoCons just don't get it.

Posted by: Puddin Head at May 26, 2016 03:15 PM (oDCMR)

77 That is correct and why you should vote for our Senitor sanders for Presdent !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: Mary Clogginstien from Brattleboro, VT at May 26, 2016 03:15 PM (NuElX)

78 Last night 45 "Republicans" crossed the aisle and
passed the Democrats' Tranny Bathroom Joy for Contractors in Govt
Amendment to the appropriations bill...



Why it is almost like Ryan works for Obama.

Posted by: sven10077 at May 26, 2016 03:12 PM (g8Hfr)

Are their names available to the public?

Posted by: Sixkiller at May 26, 2016 03:16 PM (pcyHg)

79 RE: "The people who used to say that dissenters needed to hold their nose and
vote for Rino Candidate X to stop Democrat Candidate Y from destroying
America are now saying that their principles won't allow them to vote
for Trump."

Well, and then there are the people who did not vote for McCain or Romney and who said no such things about voting for Rino Candidate X to stop Democrat Candidate Ye -- and there were millions of us.

And we're not voting for any *other* liberal candidate nominated by the Republican Party either.

There's that group. You know -- the consistent conservatives who value individual liberty, limited government, free markets, private property ownership, and adherence to the Constitution and who will not enable further the Republican Party leadership in their refusal to stand by their own party's stated principles and be a conservative opposition party.

Posted by: Igor at May 26, 2016 03:16 PM (hyZLL)

80 Open borders . . .
No thanks.
Posted by: chique d'afrique

Which is why I could never vote libertarian. If they were just sensible about defending the borders I could put up with all the pot nonsense. In fact, all the stupid, stupid, stupid GOPe had to do was support closing the borders and cracking down on illegal immigration and Trump never would have happened.

Posted by: MaureenTheTemp at May 26, 2016 03:16 PM (0C92K)

81 I suspect many of them, Shapiro particularly, feel Trump can absolutely kill Movement Conservatism in a way that Obama never could.

I strongly doubt they even consider that. I think they are horrified that this guy they consider a TV buffoon, a shallow, embarrassing clown is their option and are becoming hysterical about it. The future of conservatism is not in the hands of one politician for good or ill.
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at May 26, 2016 03:14 PM (39g3+)

Thu ought to listen some of them then. Shapiro likes it when Trump smashes unnecessarily sacredows.

Posted by: chique d'afrique, former Republican at May 26, 2016 03:16 PM (uz/Pv)

82 I am on team neither... I stated repeatedly here and other places that I do not vote for progressive Democrats. That the R's seem determined to nominate one does not change that.



I do not believe that Trump is better than Hillary. I do believe that all of the terrible things Trump does should he be elected, will be blamed on conservatism.



I will not vote Trump or Hillary but I will not vote extra hard for Trump... because fuck that guy who fooled people who have been claiming to be conservative into voting for Obamacare, radical abortion positions and the destruction of free trade.

Posted by: redbanzai at May 26, 2016 03:16 PM (3JA/M)

83 Well said, Ace.

Posted by: Pastorius at May 26, 2016 03:16 PM (gMAUH)

84 For the people who seem to be all "concerned" about the US being turned to Fascism by Trump. You should be aware that the US turned Fascist a long time ago and really settled into it in the 60s onward with all the regulatory agencies unaccountable to anyone.


That train left the station long long ago and you need to worry about going full commie.

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at May 26, 2016 03:16 PM (vvmPQ)

85 That should be sacred cows.

Posted by: chique d'afrique, former Republican at May 26, 2016 03:16 PM (uz/Pv)

86 No thanks.
Posted by: chique d'afrique, former Republican at May 26, 2016
---

When I vote in November it's really going to have very little to do with policy and more about character and conduct. What I see in HRC and DT are two people who give themselves license to viciously attack/destroy anyone they perceive to be an opponent, no matter how trivial the opposition.

I do not see that in Austin Peterson or Gary Johnson. Both seem as though they'd operate under a more palatable code of conduct.

Posted by: Y-not (@moxiemom) at May 26, 2016 03:17 PM (t5zYU)

87 "...I understand Trump is a brutish know-nothing..."


In the narrow context of traditional political candidates, that could be viewed as a true statement.

However, judging from the mood of the country, the balance of the republican candidates could fit this -

"... I understand that (fill in the name) is a smooth, do nothing politician..."

The unthinking twits who fancy themselves the intellectual elite of the right don't recognize that Trump, as ego filled and unpolished as he is, is exactly what the right needs at this moment in history.

No one could attack the left PC and SJW status as effectively as Trump can with his unique style. He elicits cheers from teaming masses who have been heretofore afraid to speak up for fear of being labeled racist, sexist, nationalist, of whateverist.

Trump is expanding the party to include the working class that mistakenly thought the democrats were looking out for their side.

It's not enough for the lazy minds that used to write recycled memes for the right to accept Trump as a slightly better alternative than Hillary. It's time for them to actually find some of that intelligence they believe themselves to have and understand what and why things are shaping up the way they are.

Posted by: jwest at May 26, 2016 03:17 PM (Zs4uk)

88 "like legislation or the GOP's sell-out on transgendered bathrooms made in the dead of night last night"

Link?

Posted by: dIb at May 26, 2016 03:17 PM (VJOLZ)

89 Last night 45 "Republicans" crossed the aisle and passed the Democrats' Tranny Bathroom Joy for Contractors in Govt Amendment to the appropriations bill...

------


Goddamn that fucking INFURIATES me.....

Then the GOPe sits back shocked, aghast and amazed that a guy like Trump is kicking their fucking ass.

fucking fuck them in their fucking fuckity fuckholes. Fuck.

**spit**

Posted by: fixerupper at May 26, 2016 03:17 PM (8XRCm)

90 I hate Trump, have trashed him for month, still don't think he can win (look at the betting markets and state-by-state polls that show deep struggles despite massive clinton scandals and democratic party's total lack of unity). If the state-by-state polls look this bad under this newscycle, hard to image them getting better when democrats unite.

But Ace is totally right in his recent posts. If Trump is going to fail, he is going to fail all on this own. We can't eat our own and elect hillary. If the race further tightens, then I might even consider supporting him.

Posted by: Hotdog at May 26, 2016 03:17 PM (OHyGW)

91 I'm like that song from 'Beaches' : I'm In The Wings With The Wind.

Posted by: Joe Biden at May 26, 2016 03:17 PM (FXW24)

92 Well the way I see it is.

1. The discussion is done. Trump IS the GOP candidate.
2. The discussion is done. Hillary IS the Dem candidate.
3. One of those two will be President of the US.
4. The position of supporting Trump to stop Hillary has merits. I would not suppose to tell someone they shouldn't vote for Trump for this reason.
5. This reason alone is insufficient for me. Unless something significant changes I will not be voting for Trump in the fall.
6. I've said my peace already about how I feel about the noms and am willing to leave it at that so long as no one continues to pressure me to vote for Trump. I won't stand (any further) in his way. This follows in the tradition of Robert Morris and John Dickinson. I do have convictions. I will not apologize for them.
7. You pressure me to vote Trump I will fully or partially reiterate why I will not.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose at May 26, 2016 03:17 PM (0q2P7)

93
First rule of a bar fight is don't question the purity of your fellow gang members. Jeepers - NeoCons just don't get it.
Posted by: Puddin Head


When you're a Jet you're a Jet all the way.

Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at May 26, 2016 03:18 PM (k4M/B)

94 I strongly doubt they even consider that. I think they are horrified that this guy they consider a TV buffoon, a shallow, embarrassing clown is their option and are becoming hysterical about it. The future of conservatism is not in the hands of one politician for good or ill.
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at May 26, 2016 03:14 PM (39g3+)
---------------

Well, considering Shapiro says pretty much exactly this every day, I think its unfair to say he never thinks of this, or that it isn't his main concern.

I also think this "aesthetics" thing needs to be but to bed. Yes, Trump is appalling on a surface level, and that actually does matter - it reflects character or a lack thereof. But if Mitt Romney came out and calmly said exactly what Trump has said, taking the same "positions" and flipping the same flop, most of these folks would be opposing him - arguably not with the same vehemence, perhaps, but still opposing.

Posted by: person at May 26, 2016 03:18 PM (mFkVC)

95 Imagine the money I will save on Brad Thor books moving forward.



Shame, actually.

I'm not demanding that he change his viewpoint.

Just moving on.

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at May 26, 2016 03:18 PM (ptqRm)

96 Trump is coming in to kick them out of their only existing electoral vehicle, to coopt media outlets that professed to support them, to marginalize Constitutional Conservatism completely.

It takes a spectacularly unaware and fundamentally ignorant person to think that the GOP has anything but hate toward conservatism at this point. All Trump has done is be the cultural shift that made them admit it. After 2014's "crush the Tea Party" effort by the Republicans anyone who doesn't see this is unreachable.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at May 26, 2016 03:18 PM (39g3+)

97 What these NeverTrumpers forget is when a President elected, assorted bureaucrats come along for the ride. Obama tends to let his off their leach. If Hillary is elected, will these be some of the same people?

Posted by: Wendy at May 26, 2016 03:18 PM (bpemY)

98 FWIW I'm not on team Hillary. But that doesn't mean I'm on team Trump either. (If it really comes down to it, I think a Trump election would at least have the possibility of being...interesting.)

But it seems to me that taking either of these simply because they're all that's left is to acquiesce to the idea you can fight against the two-party system (that we all pretty much agree isn't working for us anymore) here and here, but not over here. That is, we can say we're not going to keep repeating the same mistakes and expecting different results as long as the nomination is up for grabs, but now that an unpalatable pair of candidates are all that's available, okay.

No, at some point it's not enough to say, "This one will punch you in the face not quite as hard as that one." Better to say, "I'm not going to be on board with either of you punching me in the face."

Posted by: Nicholas Kronos at May 26, 2016 03:19 PM (NgMqF)

99 Answer: Uniparty globalists don't want a nationalist outsider candidate taking all their money and perks away.

Conservatism is NOT globalism.

I'm a conservative American nationalist.


Posted by: The Demise Of Trump Brigade at May 26, 2016 03:19 PM (G0vb2)

100
I use to listen to Doug MacIntyre in LA. When he began in 2000, he was a treat to listen to. Very conservative. Married an actress and by 2008 he was an Obama shill because as he claimed he had to teach the republicans a lesson. And it has continued to this day and he still wants to pretend he is not a full fledged prog.

Posted by: Bruce With a Wang! at May 26, 2016 03:19 PM (iQIUe)

101 >>>
I do not see that in Austin Peterson or Gary Johnson. Both seem as though they'd operate under a more palatable code of conduct.

i get your anti-trump feelings but I don't get how Hillary Clinton has become an acceptable outcome.

Posted by: ace at May 26, 2016 03:19 PM (dciA+)

102 85 That should be sacred cows.
Posted by: chique d'afrique, former Republican at May 26, 2016 03:16 PM (uz/Pv)

Lol. I thought you had made a new term: Sacredows! They're great with milk!

Posted by: Aetius451AD at May 26, 2016 03:19 PM (3ZoRf)

103 "Some men change their party for the sake of their principles; others their principles for the sake of their party."

It's
an established fact that I can come to a site like this smart military
blog and have a passionate disagreement, and still leave with each
other's respect and friendship intact, where out in the day-to-day
world, these same disagreements would violate safe spaces, trigger
microaggressions (and macro ones, too), and lead to people defaming one
another's ancestry.

As hard as it might seem to be to believe it
from my comments, and from others, this is where I come for adult
conversations about issues.

So, will I pull the handle for Trump
in November? Probably not, but then, I'm in California, so what will my
measley vote count? Besides, He Of The Honey Badger Toupee apparently
clinched the nomination. I changed my registration to Republican a few
weeks ago to vote for Cruz in the primary. I'll vote Cruz in the
primary, if for no other reason than to register a protest vote. No one
will care. Not really impressed by Gary Johnson and the Libertarians,
either. The day after the primary, barring a miracle or a disaster,
I'll either be switching back to the AIPCA, or trying to help the
Constitution Party get qualified in California.

And, still stocking up on gasoline, canned goods, and 7.62x54r.

Posted by: Qoheleth at May 26, 2016 03:19 PM (iIzG7)

104 What these NeverTrumpers forget is when a President elected, assorted bureaucrats come along for the ride. Obama tends to let his off their leach. If Hillary is elected, will these be some of the same people?



No. Worse.

Posted by: rickb223 at May 26, 2016 03:19 PM (EdhH3)

105 I just hope people tell us they're not voting for Trump a few hundred more times.

Apiece. Can't wait.

Posted by: eleven -- unenthused trumpchump at May 26, 2016 03:19 PM (qUNWi)

106 We're at war with the Progressive Left. And in war you are often presented with a set of bad choices & you have to make the least-worst choice. That's how I see things.

Posted by: josephistan at May 26, 2016 03:19 PM (7HtZB)

107 Second day I've been seriously willowed.

Posted by: Soona at May 26, 2016 03:19 PM (Fmupd)

108 78 Posted by: Sixkiller at May 26, 2016 03:16 PM (pcyHg)

It was posted in the ONT....

usual suspects the ACELA gang, the Cali folks....

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/05/paul-ryans-gay-rights-problem.html

Paul Ryan works for Pelosi

Posted by: sven10077 at May 26, 2016 03:20 PM (g8Hfr)

109 Y-Not, maybe if the libertarians were actually running libertarians, like, say, Penn Gillette, I might be able to warm up to that idea.

But they're only libertarian with respect to pot-marijuana. They're anti-2A and they're anti-religious liberty (wrt bakeries forced to make cakes for gay weddings). To hell with them -- even if they had half a shot of winning more than 2 states. Which they don't.

Posted by: Pastafarian at May 26, 2016 03:20 PM (LqrRo)

110
I love this line of thinking: I am a principled conservative, you're not, so I will vote for the commie!

Yeah, that's the ticket!

Posted by: Bruce With a Wang! at May 26, 2016 03:20 PM (iQIUe)

111 The people who used to say that dissenters needed to hold their nose and vote for Rino Candidate X to stop Democrat Candidate Y from destroying America are now saying that their principles won't allow them to vote for Trump."

How many shit sandwiches are people expected to eat?

Posted by: V the K at May 26, 2016 03:20 PM (O7MnT)

112 Authors don't make any money on used book sales.

If you like an author and dislike his political motivations, buy used.

Posted by: garrett at May 26, 2016 03:20 PM (klBFi)

113 I'm really looking forward to this podcast.

Regarding Trump, I supported Cruz in my primary but I could never bring myself to hate Trump like others did. I was comfortable with either being the nominee for different reasons. Cruz, because he was a strong conservative and Trump because he is a fighter and won't take shit from anybody.

But I can see now in retrospect that Cruz would not have been a great match up against Hillary. He doesn't have the killer instinct that Trump has and that is what you need when going up against the Clinton machine.

I think Cruz is too much of a gentleman to get really down in the dirt. For example Cruz scolded Trump for saying that Hillary is only where she is because of Bill. That is absolutely true! What was he thinking?

I don't think Trump is a perfect candidate but he is the right candidate at the right time. Trump is showing everyone in the GOPe how to fight the left which is what we have sorely needed for a long time.

Posted by: Serenity Now! at May 26, 2016 03:20 PM (BDZWU)

114
6. I've said my peace already about how I feel about the noms and am willing to leave it at that so long as no one continues to pressure me to vote for Trump. I won't stand (any further) in his way. This follows in the tradition of Robert Morris and John Dickinson. I do have convictions. I will not apologize for them.
7. You pressure me to vote Trump I will fully or partially reiterate why I will not.
Posted by: MikeTheMoose at May 26, 2016 03:17 PM (0q2P7)

1. we arent that important or powerful
2. no one is pressuring you. vote as you wish

Posted by: ThunderB at May 26, 2016 03:20 PM (zOTsN)

115 What's a Vanytrub ?

Is that this week's TrigglyPuff ?

Posted by: McCool at May 26, 2016 03:20 PM (TQxRy)

116 We'll see how many of these people actually vote for Hillary when they get in the polling booth. I didn't like a local Republican candidate and resolved to vote for the Democrat for the first time in my life. I actually stood in the polling booth for about 20 minutes staring at the ballot before I could actually get myself to do it. And, I wouldn't have done it if it wasn't the only question on the ballot (i.e., leaving it blank would have meant leaving the entire ballot blank).

Posted by: gm at May 26, 2016 03:20 PM (4ueYo)

117 >>The shoe is on the other foot for both sides.

Agreed.
I did vote for McCain and Romney, because I knew that Obama was bad news. I am not thrilled with Trump (think I've entered the Acceptance phase of mourning). However, it is *galling* that the same DC thinkers who were happy to tell us to get over whatever irks us about McCain (especially when he wouldn't fight hard for the job) and vote for him are unwilling to get over it themselves this time around.


Posted by: Lizzy at May 26, 2016 03:20 PM (NOIQH)

118 I do not see that in Austin Peterson or Gary Johnson. Both seem as though they'd operate under a more palatable code of conduct.

Policy matters more to me than how nice someone is. I don't mind a jerk who kicks doors down sometimes. Their character and persona matters, but... are you seriously arguing that a libertarian is the epitome of moral behavior?

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at May 26, 2016 03:20 PM (39g3+)

119
Did Cooke mean man enough for Gary Johnson? Or, man enough for a johnson?

Posted by: Bruce With a Wang! at May 26, 2016 03:21 PM (iQIUe)

120 89 Posted by: fixerupper at May 26, 2016 03:17 PM (8XRCm)

If you'd like I can link the Glee Gang gloating...

In essence the threat the NRO types use is "but we may lose the house and senate with TRUMP!"

I am not seeing how that matters anymore.

Posted by: sven10077 at May 26, 2016 03:21 PM (g8Hfr)

121
For those who commented on that particular post, for lack of a better phrase I objected strongly, yet politely, to one of Chique's comments and she took umbrage thinking it a personal attack.

It most certainly wasn't, as I think she's an asset here. But I was merely trying to convey to her what I thought was her flawed logic.

All that said, that in no way means that I think she should not post or even be banned from posting because she feels the way she does.

Just want to clear the air with her and all.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at May 26, 2016 03:22 PM (p4UlV)

122 I also think this "aesthetics" thing needs to be but to bed.

I'm happy for you. But simply denying its impact is ignorant. These guys find him appalling as you do, and yet you want to believe that has no influence on their opinion of him?

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at May 26, 2016 03:22 PM (39g3+)

123 >>>I just hope people tell us they're not voting for Trump a few hundred more times.
Apiece. Can't wait.

At least once for every time someone tells me I should. So yes I fully expect that to be plenty of times.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose at May 26, 2016 03:22 PM (0q2P7)

124 115 What's a Vanytrub ?

Is that this week's TrigglyPuff ?
Posted by: McCool at May 26, 2016 03:20 PM (TQxRy)

Quite a bit hotter.

http://tinyurl.com/hfg29ua

Posted by: Aetius451AD at May 26, 2016 03:22 PM (3ZoRf)

125 This is the last I heard about that push by Democrats to force the bathroom sellout into the spending bill:


Conservatives angered by the inclusion of LGBT protections in an
otherwise routine spending bill scuttled the measure Thursday, a stark
display of the potency of a civil rights issue suddenly prominent in the
presidential race and responsible for a legal standoff between the
Obama administration and several states.



The shitty Ryan leadership wanted to sell out but the few House conservatives managed to block it.


That is from Fox.

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at May 26, 2016 03:22 PM (vvmPQ)

126 Brad Thor now has a place of privilege alongside John Scalzi as one of only (now) two authors whose words and actions outside of their works have caused me to not only refuse to buy or read voluntarily anything they write but to also be ashamed that I have ever advised others to read their works.

Brad Thor has lost his damn mind and I hope that one day he takes that breath and looks back and is ashamed of himself. Not for opposing Trump, because of course not, but for turning into an utterly hateful asshole who honestly and truly believes that rubbing his shit in others' faces makes them smell like roses and not like shit.


I can't tell you how many people answered my question "Are we now all on Team Hillary?" with the ego-based reasoning, "Yeah, well maybe when we said #NeverTrump we really meant it."



Which is fine (presume rant about those who were previously party uber alles here) because if you can't support someone due to whatever reason, that's your choice and fine by me.

There is a difference in kind between Never Trump because he is horrible and Never Trump and I will now actively work to undermine him and may even work somewhat to get Hillary Clinton elected. (I'm looking at you PJ O'Rourke you idiot)

The first is intellectually and morally justifiable. The second is pathetic, dishonest hackery. There is no Universe in which Hillary Clinton is a better choice than Trump. None. I can and do have respect for nope, I cannot vote for either in this election so I won't vote. Hell, I can even respect I cannot vote for either in this election and will encourage others not to vote at all for President.

But to claim purity of purpose and then support Hillary Clinton? Yeah. No.

Posted by: alexthechick - serpentining for my sanity at May 26, 2016 03:22 PM (mf5HN)

127 i get your anti-trump feelings but I don't get how Hillary Clinton has become an acceptable outcome.
Posted by: ace at May 26, 2016 03:19 PM (dciA+)
---

And I don't get how you can look at this election and say that the Libertarian can't win. So we're at an impasse.

Posted by: Y-not (@moxiemom) at May 26, 2016 03:22 PM (t5zYU)

128 Brad Thor is wishing a Patriot would remove a troublesome Trump who can't be impeached via bullet....

Posted by: sven10077 at May 26, 2016 03:05 PM (g8Hfr)
============

Did he really say/imply that?

Posted by: Bruce With a Wang! at May 26, 2016 03:22 PM (iQIUe)

129 ......did I miss you ever being this impassioned about Obama?


Posted by: sven10077


That would be racist. Double-plus ungood, and his publisher would like to have a word with Brad Thor.

Posted by: Bossy Conservative...pondering the future at May 26, 2016 03:22 PM (RFeQD)

130 But, but, but Americans are teh racissss!

Chinese laundry detergent ad has woman shove black man in washing machine to come out Asian

Posted by: weft cut-loop at May 26, 2016 03:23 PM (p2X2f)

131 Y-Not, maybe if the libertarians were actually running libertarians, like, say, Penn Gillette, I might be able to warm up to that idea.

But they're only libertarian with respect to pot-marijuana. They're anti-2A and they're anti-religious liberty (wrt bakeries forced to make cakes for gay weddings).



Pro open borders. Plank 3.4.

Posted by: rickb223 at May 26, 2016 03:23 PM (EdhH3)

132 Please explain to me 'movement conservatism'?

We get all these 'movement conservatives' in Congress and what's the end result? A bowel movement, at best.

Instead, our "GOP" Congress has rolled over and played scratch-my-tummy for the worst President since James Buchanan. Fuck them. Fuck them in every hole with a Pope Francis dildo in a Sawzall.

In a sane world (like one where we wouldn't have a quasi-Marxist President with Eva Peron and Daniel Ortega competing to follow him) Trump wouldn't be my choice, but the GOP brand and the 'conservative' brand are worth NOTHING and I will NOT repeat NOT participate in whatever bullshit the Democrats are pulling.





Posted by: JEM at May 26, 2016 03:23 PM (o+SC1)

133 What's a Vanytrub ?

Is that this week's TrigglyPuff ?


Vayntrub.

Google it you'll like it.

Posted by: eleven -- unenthused trumpchump at May 26, 2016 03:23 PM (qUNWi)

134 What's a Vanytrub ?

Its the last name of the girl who is the AT&T spokesperson. The short cute brunette.

She's not actually getting anyone to buy AT&T, but they like her.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at May 26, 2016 03:23 PM (39g3+)

135 115 What's a Vanytrub ?

Is that this week's TrigglyPuff ?
Posted by: McCool at May 26, 2016 03:20 PM (TQxRy)


Sounds like a transliterated version of the Russian spelling/pronunciation of the name "Weintraub."

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at May 26, 2016 03:23 PM (p4UlV)

136 RE: "Folks that get all 'holier-than-thou' and claim they'll sit this
election out don't seem to realize that even if they don't vote, they're
still voting, whether they go to a voting both or not. They just have
to figure out who the 'no vote' actually helps."

I won't be sitting this one out -- I'll be there with bells on voting for conservative candidates for office.

And I've figured out that my not voting for Trump hurts the current Republican Party -- which is all to the good -- just as my not voting for McCain and my not voting for Romney hurt the current Republican Party.

I don't vote for liberals.

I *particularly* don't vote for liberals when they're put up by the Republican Party because when I do, I help them put up more liberals in the future rather than decide to promote and further their stated conservative values by becoming a conservative opposition party.

Far more important to me for the future of the country is to have a conservative opposition party -- not simply not elect a liberal candidate of the party of the Democrats over a liberal candidate of the party of the Republicans.

Posted by: Igor at May 26, 2016 03:23 PM (hyZLL)

137 131st !!!!!!!

Posted by: Scuba Dude at May 26, 2016 03:23 PM (WsJuq)

138
Last night 45 "Republicans" crossed the aisle and passed the Democrats' Tranny Bathroom Joy for Contractors in Govt Amendment to the appropriations bill...

-----------------------

I wonder if these people are secretly counting on Trump and his band of marauders to charge in and repeal everything they're doing.

Posted by: iforgot at May 26, 2016 03:23 PM (pC96u)

139 alternate explanation for the websites: funding for these guys is still nevertrump to thats why they are

Posted by: Ben H at May 26, 2016 03:23 PM (gJEsZ)

140 93
First rule of a bar fight is don't question the purity of your fellow gang members. Jeepers - NeoCons just don't get it.
Posted by: Puddin Head

When you're a Jet you're a Jet all the way.
------------------------------------------------
Yep - From your first cigarette to your last dying day.

I think it would be helpful for our 'thought leaders' to have actually worked with their hands and maybe actually carried a rifle in an effort to spread democracy. Maybe they would be more thoughtful?

Posted by: Puddin Head at May 26, 2016 03:23 PM (oDCMR)

141 Anyway, peace out, everybody.

Posted by: Y-not (@moxiemom) at May 26, 2016 03:23 PM (t5zYU)

142

its amazing to me that people come to this place and demand that their thinking not be challenged ever

too much "pressure"


safe spaces arent just for progs apparently

Posted by: ThunderB at May 26, 2016 03:23 PM (zOTsN)

143 as bad as trump is, he's more honest and less deceitful than paul fuckin ryan. paul ryan is man enough to vote for hildebeast. fuck him in the squeakhole with a flamethrower. what a two faced prick. worse than boner.

Posted by: chavez the hugo at May 26, 2016 03:23 PM (ucDmr)

144 Y-Not, maybe if the libertarians were actually
running libertarians, like, say, Penn Gillette, I might be able to warm
up to that idea.

But they're only libertarian with respect to
pot-marijuana. They're anti-2A and they're anti-religious liberty (wrt
bakeries forced to make cakes for gay weddings). To hell with them --
even if they had half a shot of winning more than 2 states. Which they
don't.


Posted by: Pastafarian at May 26, 2016 03:20 PM (LqrRo)

I would so vote for Penn Gillette even though he is insanely anti-Christian and has some weird anti-circumcision ideas.
In every other area, he is about as Constitutionally conservative and pro-freedom as you can get.

Posted by: redbanzai at May 26, 2016 03:23 PM (3JA/M)

145 Ace, I've been saying that since 2012. We always say this is still a nation where conservative policies poll well and should win elections if presented competently by a strong conservative. But are we correct? Or just wishing that was still the case?

Posted by: broseidon on his magic glowing square at May 26, 2016 03:24 PM (mozDO)

146 Thats the point. NONE whatesover if you actively support Hillary.




Not YOU literally. But the others that said they are voting for her.
Posted by: fixerupper at May 26, 2016 03:13 PM (8XRCm)

I don't take any "conservative" seriously who would vote for Hillary. There's no law that says you have to vote for her or Trump.

Posted by: chique d'afrique, former Republican at May 26, 2016 03:24 PM (uz/Pv)

147
Oh wait. VANY-trub? That's not Vayntraub.

Never mind. I got Joo on the brain.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at May 26, 2016 03:24 PM (p4UlV)

148 "Is that this week's TrigglyPuff ?"

Um....no

http://wp.me/peIJr-3Pef

View the slideshow.


AKA as that ATT girl.

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at May 26, 2016 03:24 PM (ptqRm)

149 Everyone has a tendency to make initial judgments on emotion, and then rationalize those. Like Ace, I have an emotional disgust with Trump, and it was very easy to "rationalize" that emotional NeverTrump with appeals to ideological purity. Very satisfying even.

But I swallowed my pride, buried my 10th Amendment lust, and voted for Dole, Bush, McCain, and Romney. Why should this time will be different? Because Trump is vulgar and embarrassing?

Posted by: wooga at May 26, 2016 03:24 PM (4Tl3i)

150 I wonder if these people are secretly counting on
Trump and his band of marauders to charge in and repeal everything
they're doing.

Posted by: iforgot at May 26, 2016 03:23 PM (pC96u)

I wouldn't hold my breath, wuz I them.

Posted by: redbanzai at May 26, 2016 03:25 PM (3JA/M)

151 I don't understand the impassioned pleas for Trump regarding SCOTUS. Who actually believes his SCOTUS nominations will show deference to Constitutionalism? Anyone? Trump, Hillary, it doesn't matter. We lost already. Buy ammo. Eat at Arbys.

Posted by: 2549 at May 26, 2016 03:25 PM (yTiwg)

152 I'm happy for you. But simply denying its impact is ignorant. These guys find him appalling as you do, and yet you want to believe that has no influence on their opinion of him?
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at May 26, 2016 03:22 PM (39g3+)
-----------------

Of course it has an impact, but their critique also has substance (the character thing isn't without substance - I should say other substance).

Ascribing insubstantial, venal motives to your political opponents can be fun, but it doesn't make for a good debate.

And again, Shapiro and a lot of other critics have a critique of Trump that goes much deeper then you are acknowledging.

Posted by: person at May 26, 2016 03:25 PM (mFkVC)

153
And I don't get how you can look at this election and say that the Libertarian can't win. So we're at an impasse.
Posted by: Y-not (@moxiemom) at May 26, 2016 03:22 PM (t5zYU)


look at the polling

the libertarian cannot win

and they are gun grabbers if they do

Posted by: ThunderB at May 26, 2016 03:25 PM (zOTsN)

154 Conservatives angered by the inclusion of LGBT protections in an otherwise routine spending bill scuttled the measure Thursday, a stark display of the potency of a civil rights issue suddenly prominent in the presidential race

Can the bias be any more on display here? "Protections?" "Civil rights issue?" "prominent in the presidential race?"

What piece of crap did this come from, Mother Jones?

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at May 26, 2016 03:26 PM (39g3+)

155 Quite a bit hotter.


Indeed....

Posted by: McCool at May 26, 2016 03:26 PM (TQxRy)

156 138
Last night 45 "Republicans" crossed the aisle and passed the Democrats' Tranny Bathroom Joy for Contractors in Govt Amendment to the appropriations bill...

-----------------------

I wonder if these people are secretly counting on Trump and his band of marauders to charge in and repeal everything they're doing.
-----------------------

Given this entire act was started about two weeks ago by the Civil Rights Division of DOJ, isn't it amazing at how fast our brave GOP flipped their values? Yet we are worried about Trump's conservative values. If it weren't so pathetic, it would be funny - like BBC comedy funny - not like Jon Stewart funny.

Posted by: Puddin Head at May 26, 2016 03:26 PM (oDCMR)

157 41 Vmom:

I'm thinking of setting up shop nitpicking manuscripts at this level of detail, what do you think?

I think its a good idea. Not only is it a golden business opportunity, but you show you understand story flow, grammar, story writing, and fiction very clearly.
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at May 26, 2016 03:10 PM (39g3+)

Thanks for the thumbs up!
I' haven't looked into it seriously yet, but maybe I will.

Posted by: @votermom's phone at May 26, 2016 03:26 PM (iA7Jb)

158 Posted by: J.J. Sefton at May 26, 2016 03:23 PM (p4UlV)

She's a Yid, she's cute, and unfortunately sounds like a bit of a leftist.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at May 26, 2016 03:26 PM (Zu3d9)

159 >>I love this line of thinking: I am a principled conservative, you're not, so I will vote for the commie!

>>Yeah, that's the ticket!

Pretty much the exact sentiment I heard in 2012 regarding Romney and Trump make Romney look like Goldwater. The actual Romney not the caricature one.

Posted by: JackStraw at May 26, 2016 03:26 PM (/tuJf)

160 Ace, this site is consistently in line with my thoughts. I've dropped into RedState lately and have the same impression. Too many conservatives are pushing Hillary. Weird.
Again, it's almost creepy how this site is in line with my thinking. Which is why I keep tuning in.

Posted by: Crowley at May 26, 2016 03:26 PM (nG+Z8)

161 I'm out of here... Too depressing.... Have a nice rest of the afternoon all...

Posted by: donna at May 26, 2016 03:26 PM (O2RFr)

162 145 Ace, I've been saying that since 2012. We always say this is still a nation where conservative policies poll well and should win elections if presented competently by a strong conservative. But are we correct? Or just wishing that was still the case?
Posted by: broseidon on his magic glowing square at May 26, 2016 03:24 PM (mozDO)


The problem is we do not have a political party that represents it. Add to it the MFM, academia and culture dog-piling on us and now we see why Reagan was a fluke instead of a harbinger.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at May 26, 2016 03:26 PM (p4UlV)

163 137
131st !!!!!!!


Posted by: Scuba Dude at May 26, 2016 03:23 PM (WsJuq)

SO close....

Posted by: redbanzai at May 26, 2016 03:26 PM (3JA/M)

164 >>>I did vote for McCain and Romney, because I knew that Obama was bad news. I am not thrilled with Trump (think I've entered the Acceptance phase of mourning). However, it is *galling* that the same DC thinkers who were happy to tell us to get over whatever irks us about McCain (especially when he wouldn't fight hard for the job) and vote for him are unwilling to get over it themselves this time around.


Posted by: Lizzy at May 26, 2016 03:20 PM (NOIQH)>>>

What irks me is that I had people telling me I just had to vote for McCain, had people telling me I just had to vote for Romney, and now have people telling me I just have to vote for Trump. For me, it's same GOPe tactics, different year. Except now I also get to listen to the people telling me to vote for Trump act as if I was telling them to vote for two people who I barely got myself to vote for.

Posted by: gm at May 26, 2016 03:26 PM (4ueYo)

165 Ace, I've been saying that since 2012. We always say this is still a nation where conservative policies poll well and should win elections if presented competently by a strong conservative. But are we correct? Or just wishing that was still the case?

--------------

Sometimes it wins, sometimes it loses, sometimes people run on it and do the opposite.

To me conservatism has to come from the ground up - meaning through the states. It is not a top-down ideology.

Posted by: SH at May 26, 2016 03:26 PM (gmeXX)

166 Which is why I could never vote libertarian. If they were just sensible about defending the borders I could put up with all the pot nonsense. In fact, all the stupid, stupid, stupid GOPe had to do was support closing the borders and cracking down on illegal immigration and Trump never would have happened.
Posted by: MaureenTheTemp at May 26, 2016 03:16 PM (0C92K


--------------


This is true. In the grand political scheme we were asking over and over again for at least this one thing. And all we got was spit and ridicule.

Posted by: Soona at May 26, 2016 03:26 PM (Fmupd)

167 125 Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at May 26, 2016 03:22 PM (vvmPQ)

No sir.

They caved.

Now they "passed" two fig leaf measures 1 saying NC can';t lose funds(which the Senate will not pass and we will eject in reconciliation) and the other re-affirming "religious liberty" which means nothing when Lynch will seize your church....

No Vic we lost...again....and the RINO superstars just undermine possibly the states saying "fuck you" to Ogabe magicking up Title IX to include 31 gender IDs in SCOtUS' eyes...

fuck the GOP

Posted by: sven10077 at May 26, 2016 03:26 PM (g8Hfr)

168 >> Vayntrub.
>>
>> Google it you'll like it.

Damn. I'll buy the oil. And a week someplace expensive somewhere exotic. And lots of room service.

Posted by: JEM at May 26, 2016 03:27 PM (o+SC1)

169 I won't be sitting this one out -- I'll be there with bells on voting for conservative candidates for office.




Posted by: Igor at May 26, 2016 03:23 PM (hyZLL)

Good for you. I don't care who you vote for, but I do care that you vote. It's a privilege that shouldn't be taken for granted. Participatory government and all that...

Posted by: Sixkiller at May 26, 2016 03:27 PM (pcyHg)

170 NRO now has a bunch of stealth moderators on their Discus comments section that argue with and berate anyone that makes a pro-Trump comment, or even just questions the wisdom of continuing the #nevertrump movement...and they finish up by deleting your comments.

It's a fucking clown show over there.

Posted by: Dirty Randy at May 26, 2016 03:27 PM (jjaLl)

171
That Brad Thor thing kind of shocked me and of course with Glenn Beck basically saying somebody would have to off Trump because he would be the unconstitutional tyrant. Mind boggling crazy.

That said I disagree with the last paragraph. I don't think conservatism has actually been tried, at least not my type of conservatism. But it has failed in gaining traction in a five second news cycle these days.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at May 26, 2016 03:27 PM (ODxAs)

172 159 Posted by: J.J. Sefton at May 26, 2016 03:23 PM (p4UlV)

She's a Yid, she's cute, and unfortunately sounds like a bit of a leftist.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at May 26, 2016 03:26 PM (Zu3d9)

Now it's coming back to me . . .

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at May 26, 2016 03:27 PM (p4UlV)

173 I swallowed my pride, buried my 10th Amendment lust, and voted for Dole, Bush, McCain, and Romney. Why should this time will be different? Because Trump is vulgar and embarrassing?

As long as people keep agreeing to eat shit sandwiches, the Republicans will keep serving them.

Me, I'm ready to skip a meal.

Posted by: V the K at May 26, 2016 03:27 PM (O7MnT)

174 Of course it has an impact, but their critique also has substance

OK so we don't just jettison the aesthetics as you claim.

Here's how it works: you have some concern, but that gets exacerbated and exaggerated by something that bothers you viscerally and emotionally. What you would have put up with suddenly looms large, and you use the best argument you can to support this gut feeling.

The fact is, when you go back and look, all of these guys backed Romney and McCain. All of them. Despite him having almost identical stated positions as Trump. What's the difference?

Trump is icky.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at May 26, 2016 03:27 PM (39g3+)

175 Penn's also walked back a lot of his anti-religious views. Still an atheist, of course, but realizes maybe he was on the wrong side of the culture on that.

And voting for this Libertarian? Hell no. To me, it wasn't even a question to not vote for McCain and vote L. But it's obvious which side won the great Libertarian shake-up of 2008.

Posted by: Chupacabra at May 26, 2016 03:27 PM (kZVsz)

176 "So, will I pull the handle for Trump

in November? Probably not, but then, I'm in California, so what will my

measley vote count?"

I'm in Maryland. If I show up, in theory I'm helping people down ticket - in practice that never happens when the dead in Baltimore City show up.

Posted by: Wendy at May 26, 2016 03:28 PM (bpemY)

177 If you don't vote for the nominee you're voting for Obama you stupid hillbilly bumpkin from JesusLand.

Posted by: Smart Power 2008-2012 at May 26, 2016 03:28 PM (LYCUN)

178 **I would also call for what I've been calling for for two years: A little introspection from people who have lost the public's trust as to why they lost the public's trust,*****

Translation: "you dummies just didn't realize that many of us 'conservatives' wanted to kick out the brown people all along, and you denied us that!"

Yeah, I guess some of us underestimated the depths of your "nationalism."
Posted by: Vyce at May 26, 2016 03:24 PM (25KoR)

The point of his post was to clarify that the other post was directed at commentators politicians *, not blog commenters. Unless you are one of the former two, I don't see how you could have lost the public trust.

*By the way, GOPe politicians are lining up behind Trump. Even Lindsey Graham just came out and endorsed/publicly supported him.

Posted by: chique d'afrique, former Republican at May 26, 2016 03:28 PM (uz/Pv)

179 Great article ace,

we should all endeavor to go easy on each other and not leap down each other's throats.

Posted by: Max Power at May 26, 2016 03:28 PM (q177U)

180 I appreciate the point of this article, but we have

"No, I didn't mean you should stop debating this issue yourself."

Yet, the "we no longer have any other avenue by which to challenge a third Obama term" kind of gets to the heart of the matter. As Laura Ingram put it WEEKS (months?) AGO, it's time to put the big boy/girl pants on and have a "come to Jesus" moment.

The NeverTrump stuff (as of 07MAR2016) is just plain insane. What is there to "debate"? I'm not 100% sure about Hillary, but Marco Rubio is NOT running on the Democratic ticket, folks!

Posted by: Optimizer at May 26, 2016 03:28 PM (jPHi7)

181
And a pull quote from the Charles Murray NRO rant:

In my view, Donald Trump is unfit to be president in ways that apply to no other candidate of the two major political parties throughout American history.

http://tinyurl.com/gujmvcy

And a reminder that William Jennings Bryan and Horace Greeley would be on that list....

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at May 26, 2016 03:28 PM (kdS6q)

182 Remember, Mitt Romney wasn't a very conservative guy in the strict sense either. He was a middle of the road Republican, for his region, and a liberal Republican for the rest of the country. Was there a neverMitt movement, hell no there wasn't.

Mitt went quietly into the night, losing like a gentleman the way the nevertrumpers prefer.

Posted by: Ben H at May 26, 2016 03:29 PM (gJEsZ)

183 What can I say?

It's France.

Apparently trying to solve a problem.

http://www.weaselzippers.us/?p=273648

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at May 26, 2016 03:29 PM (ptqRm)

184 I don't understand why Red State gets any mentions in the media these days. I was never a big fan but it used to have a decent number of comments years ago.

Their hate filled diaries are now lucky to hit 20 comments involving 3or 4 posters. It seems anybody who considers voting Trump over Hillary is immediately shut down by the same angry 2or 3 posters.

Posted by: Christi at May 26, 2016 03:29 PM (IvmKU)

185 What's a Vanytrub ?

Is that this week's TrigglyPuff ?

Posted by: McCool at May 26, 2016 03:20 PM (TQxRy)


She is an angel with a beautiful smile and admirable elbows.

A Trigglypuff is a Weeble from hades, the spawn of Beelzebub and an inebriated tribble with a screech to age you.

Posted by: *Mikey NTH - Lighter Fluid, Charcoal, and Othe Car-Be-Cue Supplies at the Outrage Outlet at May 26, 2016 03:29 PM (hLRSq)

186 After last election, an aging hyper-liberal aunt-in-law started ranting while visiting family (no one was hostile toward her, though none of us voted for Obama). Anyway, she was blaming the Republicans for the outcome of Obama's win - she said we didn't put up a good enough candidate so she had to vote for Obama - see, it was all our fault. If she didn't like Romney, she ain't gonna like Trump. She would have voted for Hillary anyway - since she's a woman.

Posted by: Crowley at May 26, 2016 03:29 PM (nG+Z8)

187
OT:

I see that Tom Cotton unloaded on Harry Reid on the Senate Floor.

Would not mind Cotton as a Trump veep.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at May 26, 2016 03:29 PM (p4UlV)

188 the same people who told us we must eat the shit snadwich and vote for McCain and Romney are now telling us we must NOT vote for Trump and in some cases even Hillary


no

Posted by: ThunderB at May 26, 2016 03:30 PM (zOTsN)

189 And I don't get how you can look at this election and say that the Libertarian can't win.

The Libertarian is not libertarian. Johnson sold out for tranny bathrooms? He likes drugs, hooray! But he hates states rights and believes in centralized authority. maybe if they ran Rand Paul, who actually sticks up for state rights to be stupid.

Posted by: wooga at May 26, 2016 03:30 PM (4Tl3i)

190 As long as people keep agreeing to eat shit sandwiches, the Republicans will keep serving them.

Me, I'm ready to skip a meal.
Posted by: V the K at May 26, 2016 03:27 PM (O7MnT)



President Hillary thanks you for your support.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at May 26, 2016 03:30 PM (8ZskC)

191 "The point of his post was to clarify that the other post was directed at commentators politicians *, not blog commenters. Unless you are one of the former two, I don't see how you could have lost the public trust.
"

I think you are interacting with a troll.

Could be wrong though .

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at May 26, 2016 03:30 PM (ptqRm)

192 Trump / Cotton

Sounds luxurious.

Posted by: garrett at May 26, 2016 03:31 PM (klBFi)

193 Translation: "you dummies just didn't realize that many of us 'conservatives' wanted to kick out the brown people all along, and you denied us that!"

Yeah, I guess some of us underestimated the depths of your "nationalism."
Posted by: Vyce at May 26, 2016 03:24 PM (25KoR)

-----

Hey..... new guy.

Go sell your "you border conservatives are really just closet racists" shit someplace else. We're all full here.

Posted by: fixerupper at May 26, 2016 03:31 PM (8XRCm)

194 I'm surprised more people don't see an upside to a Trump Presidency in that it will be a real shock to American politics. The normal operation of red states vs blue states is in need of some creative destruction.

Posted by: Serious Cat at May 26, 2016 03:31 PM (UypUQ)

195 Translation: "you dummies just didn't realize that many of us 'conservatives' wanted to kick out the brown people all along, and you denied us that!"

Yeah, I guess some of us underestimated the depths of your "nationalism."

Posted by: Vyce at May 26, 2016 03:24 PM (25KoR)


Are you stupid or something?

Posted by: jwest at May 26, 2016 03:31 PM (Zs4uk)

196 57 If you Google "Things You Didn't Know About AT&T Spokesperson Lilly" you will find a video that gives a lot of really cool info about her.
Posted by: Sharkman at May 26, 2016 03:12 PM (82dwe)

Uh, sharkman, you don't have a wall covered in pictures of Lilly and crayon/lipstick scrawls, do you?

Just askin'

Posted by: West at May 26, 2016 03:31 PM (raBzy)

197 192 Trump / Cotton

Sounds luxurious.
Posted by: garrett at May 26, 2016 03:31 PM (klBFi)

2,000 thread count. YUUUGE thread counts.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at May 26, 2016 03:32 PM (p4UlV)

198 Is this another thread where we punch each other in the face?

*runs off to find sock and Quiet Riot mask*

Posted by: Banana Splits Guy at May 26, 2016 03:32 PM (HCv3S)

199 Last night 45 "Republicans" crossed the aisle and passed the Democrats' Tranny Bathroom Joy for Contractors in Govt Amendment to the appropriations bill...

-----------------------


I am so glad I am no longer a Republican.

Posted by: chique d'afrique, former Republican at May 26, 2016 03:32 PM (uz/Pv)

200 Trump / Cotton

Sounds luxurious.



The matching duvet is to die for.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at May 26, 2016 03:32 PM (8ZskC)

201 Translation: "you dummies just didn't realize that many of us 'conservatives' wanted to kick out the brown people all along, and you denied us that!"

Yeah, I guess some of us underestimated the depths of your "nationalism."
Posted by: Vyce at May 26, 2016 03:24 PM (25KoR)




aw he is a bit peckish


someone go feed him a bag of dicks

Posted by: ThunderB at May 26, 2016 03:32 PM (zOTsN)

202 No, we punch each other in the dicks. Either in our girl dicks, or boy dicks, because inclusive.

Posted by: Chupacabra at May 26, 2016 03:33 PM (kZVsz)

203 I don't think there was enough of "conservative movement" to fail nationally. Locally, however, it has been succeeding legislatively: from Arizona to Wisconsin to South Carolina. Even then, the entrenched federal court system is going to have final say.

Posted by: David Wellman at May 26, 2016 03:33 PM (Hi6cL)

204 128 Posted by: Bruce With a Wang! at May 26, 2016 03:22 PM (iQIUe)

Absolutely....

http://tinyurl.com/juvzyam

Gateway Pundit-On Thor

Breitbart has it too....

essentially they "hypotheitcaled" that Trump is a Latin Strongman and if unimpeachable would a patriot take hm out....?

I am in awe, I have never wished harm on the Constitution hating shithead currently in office....

I don't want Trump or any candidate killed...I want tyrants defeated at the polls.

Posted by: sven10077 at May 26, 2016 03:33 PM (g8Hfr)

205 The fact is, when you go back and look, all of these guys backed Romney and McCain. All of them. Despite him having almost identical stated positions as Trump. What's the difference?

Trump is icky.
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at May 26, 2016 03:27 PM (39g3+)
-------------------

Trump is exponentially less conservative then Romney or McCain.

Those two were squishes with some strong points - McCain would have been firm on the military, Romney would have been quite fiscally conservative. Trump is neither of these things.

The biggest issue is this, and it is REALLY a big issue - Trump does not even pay lip service to the Constitution or the founding principles of this nation. Romney and McCain were far to ready to compromise on issues related to Constitutionalism - Trump just doesn't care. At all.

Posted by: person at May 26, 2016 03:33 PM (mFkVC)

206 President Hillary thanks you for your support.


This whole "You can't be one of the cool kids if you don't go along" didn't work on me in the 8th grade. It's not going to work now.

Posted by: V the K at May 26, 2016 03:33 PM (O7MnT)

207 I think it's funny how some people have shown their intellectual dishonesty on this issue. How they can't come to terms with someone like Trump. but they "held their nose" and voted for Romney because...wait for it...they cared about the country,

That was obviously not true, because their argument is essentially- Hillary!, because that's who the #nevertrump crowd is all about.

I voted for Cruz, and now I will vote for Trump because I'm tired of people who put their own personal proclivities and hobgoblins over the ultimate good of our country. They are contemporary fascists and they don't even know it.

Posted by: Marcus T at May 26, 2016 03:33 PM (O0lVq)

208
And I don't get how you can look at this election and say that the Libertarian can't win.
Posted by: Y-not



Because the Libertarians have been on the presidential ballot nationally for 40 years and have gotten more than 1% of the vote just once? And then by just a smidge.

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at May 26, 2016 03:33 PM (kdS6q)

209 This country is burning. All that's left to do is grab a fiddle and a bottle of Valu-Rite.

Posted by: gm at May 26, 2016 03:33 PM (4ueYo)

210 I was just reading Brad Thor's Twitter feed.

I've met and conversed with the man twice now, and was impressed with him as a patriot and warm, friendly person.

I listened to the feed from Beck's show (can't stand Beck), and he DID NOT call for Trump to be assassinated.

However, a Trump supporter tweeted that he hoped President Trump would send Thor "to the gas chambers."

I'll hold my nose and vote Trump, but I've had it with this election season. I've never seen nastier business.

Taking a break.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at May 26, 2016 03:33 PM (1ZOkK)

211
Time to feed the kittehs and then a conference call at 4.

Trolls can suck my ass.

BBL.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at May 26, 2016 03:33 PM (p4UlV)

212 Yeah, I guess some of us underestimated the depths of your "nationalism."
Posted by: Vyce at May 26, 2016 03:24 PM (25KoR)



The moose out front would like a word with you.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at May 26, 2016 03:33 PM (8ZskC)

213 I'm man enough to punch you in the nuts!!

Posted by: Banana Splits Guy at May 26, 2016 03:33 PM (HCv3S)

214 I'm surprised more people don't see an upside to a Trump Presidency in that it will be a real shock to American politics. The normal operation of red states vs blue states is in need of some creative destruction.
Posted by: Serious Cat at May 26, 2016 03:31 PM (UypUQ)

Trump Shock may not necessarily be good.

See: Obama Change

Posted by: chique d'afrique, former Republican at May 26, 2016 03:34 PM (uz/Pv)

215 Donald Trump is more conservative than Mitt Romney, John McCain, George W. Bush, or George H.W. Bush. His nomination is a repudiation of the Republican establishment, not of conservatism. Ostensible conservatives who were willing to hold their noses and vote for those previous candidates should be willing to vote for Trump.

Posted by: My Ridiculously Circuitous Plan at May 26, 2016 03:34 PM (FohCt)

216 Yep, that puts you on Team Hillary.

Posted by: exhelodrvr at May 26, 2016 03:34 PM (IijTQ)

217 199 Posted by: chique d'afrique, former Republican at May 26, 2016 03:32 PM (uz/Pv)

If it's any consolation the GOP is no longer Republican...

Posted by: sven10077 at May 26, 2016 03:34 PM (g8Hfr)

218 We always say this is still a nation where conservative policies poll well and should win elections if presented competently by a strong conservative. But are we correct? Or just wishing that was still the case?

We're not. And they don't. But with good leadership and courage in office, it could be again. Most of the cultural shift has been because those in power say something and most people know no better and go along with authority. If that was pushed back, most people would go along for the same reasons.

But there's nobody in power or on the horizon with those qualities. And those who should know better in the nation are still sending their kids to be indoctrinated at schools and incrementally buying into the corrosive social concepts of the left.

Just ten years ago here, people laughed out loud at the idea of homosexual marriage. Now many if not most think its something that is part of society and not to be fought.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at May 26, 2016 03:34 PM (39g3+)

219 Locally, however, it has been succeeding legislatively: from Arizona to Wisconsin to South Carolina. Even then, the entrenched federal court system is going to have final say.

----------

As I say, it will have to come from the ground up. Then at some point, some state or states will just have to say NO. At some point, the federal government will not be able to push back. Eventually, the king gets deposed. I don't know when it will be, but eventually it happens.

Posted by: SH at May 26, 2016 03:34 PM (gmeXX)

220 How many folks yelling for people to line up behind Trump would have been #NeverJeb?

Posted by: person at May 26, 2016 03:34 PM (mFkVC)

221 "maybe conservatism is not at the moment an electorally-winning set of policies, and needs some fine-tuning and even some general rethinking."

I don't know what conservatism means anymore. It used to be a mish-mash of Fiscal Conservatism (with Tea Party flavorings), Social Conservatism and Strong Military Neo-Conservatism, which existed in the Republican party in an uneasy alliance. That's over.

Conservative Pundits don't want to face it, and so they're into Shooting the Messenger, one Donald J. Trump.

Posted by: Ignoramus at May 26, 2016 03:35 PM (r1fLd)

222 "There's a reason the "conservative movement," such as it is, failed.

And it did fail. Let me propose, to the stunned silence of the crowd, that maybe conservatism is not at the moment an electorally-winning set of policies, and needs some fine-tuning and even some general rethinking.

It would be a useful inquiry to discover why that occurred, instead of just saying, as liberals do, "Republicans are stupid, racist, and afraid of The Other.""
-------------
Yes, there is a reason. The Conservative movement's perspective of its "rightness" has overridden its perspective of how many Americans agree with such. So long as we intend to remain a democracy of any stripe, 17th Amendment and related issues or not, there needs to be an expansion of the voter base. It's as simple as that. Ranting on the internet among like-thinkers does not get the job done. Conservative people need to get out in their communities, outside of their churches (though the churches are a good starting point) and teach people how to fish and how our great economic system helps them not hurt them.

Posted by: WTP at May 26, 2016 03:35 PM (XiVKO)

223 My take on Trump. He loves this country and is tired of seeing us being forced to host an invasion. But in a way, he is a human smod. People are tired of the gop saying one thing and doing another so they choose the human wrecking ball and watch the party shit itself because the peasants are revolting. The gop establishment is having a meltdown because Trump is revealing their true nature. The pundits and so called thinkers on the inside hate knowing that Trump doesn't give a shit about them or their stupid opinions and agendas. The media is terrified that they can't control the narrative with Trump. And we the people might as well sit back and watch the fun, because the dems and the repubs will both remember their oath of office and start doing what Congress is supposed to do to " check and balance" the executive if that turns out to be Pres. Trump.

Posted by: madamemayhem at May 26, 2016 03:35 PM (WPm3x)

224 Those two were squishes with some strong points - McCain would have been firm on the military, Romney would have been quite fiscally conservative. Trump is neither of these things.

I find your characterization of Romney to be astoundingly lacking in facts and history, given that it was just 4 years ago.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at May 26, 2016 03:35 PM (39g3+)

225 205 Posted by: person at May 26, 2016 03:33 PM (mFkVC)


I think you're a bit over the top but that's not the issue. The issue is vote for someone (or allow it by staying home) who has a 40+ year record of absolute destruction and criminality or vote for someone to prevent that, not really having any inkling of what he may or may not do.

I'll take that chance.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at May 26, 2016 03:36 PM (p4UlV)

226 I'm surprised more people don't see an upside to a Trump Presidency in that it will be a real shock to American politics. The normal operation of red states vs blue states is in need of some creative destruction.

------------

If it happens, I am hoping that is a byproduct.

Posted by: SH at May 26, 2016 03:36 PM (gmeXX)

227 210 I was just reading Brad Thor's Twitter feed.

I've met and conversed with the man twice now, and was impressed with him as a patriot and warm, friendly person.

I listened to the feed from Beck's show (can't stand Beck), and he DID NOT call for Trump to be assassinated.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at May 26, 2016 03:33 PM (1ZOkK)

Posting so people see this.

Posted by: chique d'afrique, former Republican at May 26, 2016 03:36 PM (uz/Pv)

228 >>Except now I also get to listen to the people telling me to vote for
Trump act as if I was telling them to vote for two people who I barely
got myself to vote for.


I'm not telling anyone how to vote, especially not when it comes to someone as polarizing as Trump. I was criticizing the DC/NYC media people who lecture the GOP masses each election season.


Posted by: Lizzy at May 26, 2016 03:36 PM (NOIQH)

229 How many folks yelling for people to line up behind Trump would have been #NeverJeb?

Posted by: person at May 26, 2016 03:34 PM (mFkVC)





here is my answer

STOP ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION

Posted by: ThunderB at May 26, 2016 03:36 PM (zOTsN)

230 I would be MUCH less disgusted with this talk of writing in somebody, and such, if were a more "normal" election, where it wasn't so imperative that the damage caused by the only anti-American POTUS in history be reversed, and where we didn't have a Democratic ticket with either a woman under FBI investigation or a socialist were the choices. Said woman literally got one of our ambassadors killed, Cyrano de Bergerac style, and compromised TOP SECRET/SPECIAL ACCESS information via one of the bigger espionage rings in US history.

WTF are you guys THINKING!?!

Posted by: Optimizer at May 26, 2016 03:36 PM (jPHi7)

231 210 Posted by: Jane D'oh at May 26, 2016 03:33 PM (1ZOkK)

I listened too, and in context you had Thor comparing Trump unfavorably to Hugo Chavez style leadership and the "patriot bit"....

I assure you I am not thrilled with him, it, or my reaction and shock at it.

Thor is far angrier at Trump than Obama so far as I can see Mrs. D'oh....

That *is* reality.

Posted by: sven10077 at May 26, 2016 03:36 PM (g8Hfr)

232 What piece of crap did this come from, Mother Jones?

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at May 26, 2016 03:26 PM (39g3+)

As I said, it came from Fox. And that is the last I heard of that bathroom sellout. They say the conservatives blocked it.

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at May 26, 2016 03:36 PM (vvmPQ)

233 in weighing the two (terrible!) choices, I've got to go with #neverHillary over #neverTrump

Posted by: the Butcher at May 26, 2016 03:36 PM (AGJqR)

234 well done, ace. Saw this confusion brewing in the lower thread. But savvy experienced morons like JackStraw and chique probably sorta sensed what you just posted. stace, another outstanding moron, I think also took it the wrong way, as she repeatedly said she would not be silent about her decidedly non-tepid views of the presumptive nominee.


Posted by: rhomboid at May 26, 2016 03:36 PM (QDnY+)

235 But in a way, he is a human smod.

If A.L.I.E. the genocidal AI from 'The 100' were running, I would be giving her serious consideration.

Posted by: V the K at May 26, 2016 03:36 PM (O7MnT)

236 If conservatism has failed, which is like saying free market capitalism has failed, the the United States is dead and Obama killed it.

If conservatives no longer have a voice in politics, if crony capitalism is all we have left to look forward to, then the United States is dead because no one in the political class defended the principles on which the country was founded.

Posted by: HyperMania1637 at May 26, 2016 03:36 PM (V2ggy)

237 >>Was there a neverMitt movement, hell no there wasn't.

Hell yes there was.

Go back and look at the archives here for one example. Every day we were treated to the stylings of DrewM trashing Romney and getting on board with whichever Not Romney was the flavor of the day.

This led to him backing such stalwart conservatives as Newt and Santorum. In fact, there was a committed attempt to actually obscure or rewrite his record to make him even less acceptable.

I certainly don't want to relieve that shit but the idea that everyone quietly got on the Romney train and did their duty is laughable.

Posted by: JackStraw at May 26, 2016 03:37 PM (/tuJf)

238 >>>I voted for Cruz, and now I will vote for Trump because I'm tired of people who put their own personal proclivities and hobgoblins over the ultimate good of our country. They are contemporary fascists and they don't even know it.
Posted by: Marcus T at May 26, 2016 03:33 PM (O0lVq)>>>

What's for the good of the country? Elect the Democrats and they screw you in the way they promise. Elect the Republicans and they stab you in the back? Is there a point? Not a rhetorical question. I'm to the point that I don't even see the point in bothering anymore, other than to read the HQ because it beats working. But, getting up, walking to my car and driving to vote or volunteer? Really not worth the effort or gas.

Posted by: gm at May 26, 2016 03:37 PM (4ueYo)

239 "40
I'm not #NeverTrump by any stretch of the imagination, but I think it's
important that we continue to make it clear to him that he hasn't closed
this deal yet. I fully expect that he'll back out of every campaign
promise he's made so far, especially given how he's walking everything
back already, if he's not continually pressed to do something than take
the path of least resistance.

Posted by: Xander Crews at May 26, 2016 03:10 PM (I3uDE)"


I heard on the radio today that enough of the unpledged delegates have announced that they will vote for Trump that he now has 1238 delegates.

In other words, he has essentially closed the deal.

Posted by: Obnoxious A-Hole at May 26, 2016 03:37 PM (QHgTq)

240 "And I don't get how you can look at this election and say that the Libertarian can't win."

Johnson could win the lottery.

Posted by: Wendy at May 26, 2016 03:37 PM (bpemY)

241 Posting so people see this.

Posted by: chique d'afrique, former Republican at May 26, 2016 03:36 PM (uz/Pv)


You should have included the part about someone tweeting Thor that they hope President Trump sends him (Thor) to the "gas chambers."

Unreal.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at May 26, 2016 03:37 PM (1ZOkK)

242 If I may, at the risk of repeating myself ad naseum, our failure was because we did not tend our garden. We allowed ourselves to disengage from the social arena and we failed to exercise basic discipline on who we let represent us. As such, if we were a garden, the soil got depleted and changed and we got choked with weeds.

The weeds are easy to deal with. It's the soil that's the big problem.

Posted by: Brother Cavil at May 26, 2016 03:38 PM (9krrF)

243 How many folks yelling for people to line up behind Trump would have been #NeverJeb?
Posted by: person at May 26, 2016 03:34 PM (mFkVC)

------

Nope. Would have help my nose and voted. Like for Romney. Like for McCain. Like for Dole.

But, nice strawman you got there Tinman.

Posted by: fixerupper at May 26, 2016 03:38 PM (8XRCm)

244 I blame lousy faux conservative GOP candidates, and not conservatism as a set of principals. IT is hard to argue any Bush, McVain, or Romney or Ryan ever held a conservative idea to be true in their lives. These are all big government, anti-tenth amendment liberals.

What's more, they are terrible electoral candidates. After all, if you can't win arguments against Candy Crowley and Slo-Joe Biden, you don't deserve to win.

Posted by: MTF at May 26, 2016 03:38 PM (/m8T6)

245
So long as we intend to remain a democracy of any stripe, 17th Amendment and related issues or not, there needs to be an expansion of the voter base.
--------------------

This is exactly what Teddy Kennedy realized regarding leftism. He needed to expand the voter base. So he pushed through the Immigration Act and here we are.

Now, what are anti-leftists going to do? Certain answers spring to mind.

Posted by: iforgot at May 26, 2016 03:38 PM (pC96u)

246 Seriously. Do you guys not remember Heidi?

She had some serious talent.

Posted by: garrett at May 26, 2016 03:38 PM (klBFi)

247 171 NRO now has a bunch of stealth moderators on their Discus comments section that argue with and berate anyone that makes a pro-Trump comment, or even just questions the wisdom of continuing the #nevertrump movement...and they finish up by deleting your comments.

It's a fucking clown show over there.

NR deleted almost every anti-Rubio comment I made on there at the time. I was kind of shocked at the level of censorship at the time. That said I got away w/posting and links about the Lowry/Hillary operative meeting.

At this point they should just hand over the moderation to CTR. Google Correct The Record and Hillary Clinton. They are openly admitting they are paying people to do this stuff on social media.

Posted by: Christi at May 26, 2016 03:38 PM (IvmKU)

248 I swallowed my pride, buried my 10th Amendment lust, and voted for Dole, Bush, McCain, and Romney. Why should this time will be different? Because Trump is vulgar and embarrassing?

---

I would happily and proudly vote for Trump if those were the only problems.

Again, it seems someone is trying to pretend that there are no substantive issues that people have with Trump.

Posted by: chique d'afrique, former Republican at May 26, 2016 03:38 PM (uz/Pv)

249 Yes, because what's happening in Washington has been so good for the country and something different would be disastrous. I'm almost choking to death laughing on that delusional fiction.

Hillary has already made clear her intention to disegard Constitution, effectively repeal the Second Amendment, continue Presidency by dictatorship, diminish the military, make herself immune from law and continue to lurch the country towards fiscal disaster. We are already not a constitutional democracy.

But you know #nevertrump. I hate these people as much as the liberal fascists.

Posted by: Marcus T at May 26, 2016 03:38 PM (O0lVq)

250 FWIW, Ace, I understood what you meant perfectly.

Posted by: sock_rat_eez_and_the_dogs at May 26, 2016 03:39 PM (gUoN4)

251 >>>Go back and look at the archives here for one example. Every day we were treated to the stylings of DrewM trashing Romney and getting on board with whichever Not Romney was the flavor of the day.

This led to him backing such stalwart conservatives as Newt and Santorum. In fact, there was a committed attempt to actually obscure or rewrite his record to make him even less acceptable.

I certainly don't want to relieve that shit but the idea that everyone quietly got on the Romney train and did their duty is laughable.

Posted by: JackStraw at May 26, 2016 03:37 PM (/tuJf)>>>

I barely got myself on the Romney train at the last moment. And, since Trump and Romney are - policy-wise - identical twins, I don't imagine I'll get on the Trump train any earlier, if at all.

Posted by: gm at May 26, 2016 03:39 PM (4ueYo)

252 .....Now can I post these pictures of Lilly?

Now son don't be silly. She's been dead since 1929.

Posted by: X at May 26, 2016 03:39 PM (PPTQ9)

253 "Too many conservatives are pushing Hillary. Weird. "

Let me ask you something. Where else in your life would you see something so incongruent that you would just say, oh, well?

You wouldn't. It's so off the rails. The reaction so hysterical that you know these people fear a loss of income or privilege. Plus there are the never were - conservatives or righties - to begin with group.

Trump is just a successful businessman. A known quantity but he's been called Hitler and the rest. It's stupid. It's irrational and hysterical.

Posted by: The Demise Of Trump Brigade at May 26, 2016 03:39 PM (G0vb2)

254 As I said in the last thread: the fight now seems to be nationalism vs globalism, and if that's all it comes down to, we lose either way.

Because once you take the ball off liberty, you lose everything. Slavery is slavery, whether global or national.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at May 26, 2016 03:39 PM (39g3+)

255 Thank you, Ace, well said. One year ago, I vowed to vote for Hillary if Jeb got the nomination so conservatives (Federalists, really) could build anew. I have abandoned that position as I am reminded of the true nature of the hideous human being that inhabits the skin of Hillary Clinton. If she wins, there will be no base, no foundation whatsoever to build upon. Trump it is. And I feel no hesitation nor remorse in reminding those who told me I must vote for Dole - and McCain - and Romney even though they weren't my first choices. Sauce. Goose. Gander.

Posted by: Gouverneur Morris at May 26, 2016 03:39 PM (dQJCS)

256 "someone go feed him a bag of dicks"

Make sure they're boneless.

Vegan if possible.

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at May 26, 2016 03:39 PM (ptqRm)

257 Pastafarian, your summarized analysis on the voters' choice here is sound.


But you might pause, as you prep your told-you-so crossbow (what, not a long bow??!!!), and consider that lots of eventual Trump voters are making cold-blooded calculations just like yours.


Of course there are some enthusiasts who have real high expectations. I too think they are unlikely to be met - but 1) I'm not sure and 2) any president actually pushing for correct policies can fail/partially fail for all sorts of reasons, none of which make him/her particularly bad or harmful.

Posted by: rhomboid at May 26, 2016 03:40 PM (QDnY+)

258 >>>Folks that get all 'holier-than-thou' and claim they'll sit this election out don't seem to realize that even if they don't vote, they're still voting

I understand that exactly. My vote concerning Trump/Hillary is "This decision will be made without me" I will go to the polls. But since the choice is FOR Hillary or FOR Trump, I afraid I have to vote Present.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose at May 26, 2016 03:40 PM (0q2P7)

259
Trump / Cotton Sounds luxurious.
Best ctton in the world you won't believe how good it is.Way better than the Egyptian cotton made in a country that rips us off, takes American jobsand they want to kill us too

Posted by: Flawless Male Logic at May 26, 2016 03:40 PM (lKyWE)

260 194 I'm surprised more people don't see an upside to a Trump Presidency in that it will be a real shock to American politics. The normal operation of red states vs blue states is in need of some creative destruction.
Posted by: Serious Cat at May 26, 2016 03:31 PM (UypUQ)


------------------


Heh. Just a thought. Many people are blaming LIV's for Trump's ascendency. Maybe the LIV's are the ones that will actually save this country.

Posted by: Soona at May 26, 2016 03:40 PM (Fmupd)

261 "Now, what are anti-leftists going to do? Certain answers spring to mind."

That's part of the answer, but we're a couple generations down from Teddy's f'n us over. Can't change much of that, but we can work to help the citizenry who are already here. They aren't so much stupid as ignorant. Yes many are stupid but even the stupid can stumble in to the truth.

Posted by: WTP at May 26, 2016 03:40 PM (XiVKO)

262 Again, it seems someone is trying to pretend that there are no substantive issues that people have with Trump.

-----------

Agreed. Hillary is not the enemy. My goal is not to simply defeat Hillary. Progressiveism is the enemy. Advancing conservatism and constitutionalism is the goal. I'll compromise where I must, and have many times. But so far, I see no reason to compromise with Trump. I'll give him this, I think his list of justices was a good idea. He should do more things like that to help persuade conservatives that he is worth voting for.

Posted by: SH at May 26, 2016 03:40 PM (gmeXX)

263 >> Nope. Would have help my nose and voted. Like for
>> Romney. Like for McCain. Like for Dole.

Exactly. In the land of the blind the one-eyed man is king.

And there hasn't been a Democrat since Bill Clinton whose head wasn't so far up his (or her) own ass that all that individual could see is fecal matter.

Hell, I worked for the McCain campaign, just because I read a couple chapters of Obama's book and concluded that he was a crooked and incompetent piece of shit.

Posted by: JEM at May 26, 2016 03:40 PM (o+SC1)

264 Donald Trump is more conservative than Mitt Romney,
John McCain, George W. Bush, or George H.W. Bush. His nomination is a
repudiation of the Republican establishment, not of conservatism.
Ostensible conservatives who were willing to hold their noses and vote
for those previous candidates should be willing to vote for Trump.


Posted by: My Ridiculously Circuitous Plan at May 26, 2016 03:34 PM (FohCt)

I see absolutely no evidence that Trump is even more conservative than Hillary.
What I see a lot of is people projecting who they thought they voted for onto Trump.

Posted by: redbanzai at May 26, 2016 03:41 PM (3JA/M)

265 I think you're a bit over the top but that's not the issue. The issue is vote for someone (or allow it by staying home) who has a 40+ year record of absolute destruction and criminality or vote for someone to prevent that, not really having any inkling of what he may or may not do.

I'll take that chance.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at May 26, 2016 03:36 PM (p4UlV)
----------------

Sorry to come across as over the top - I'm sure I do, I'm passionate about this.

The thing is, Trump really doesn't seem to know basic US civics or care to learn them. When Rand Paul pressed him on a Constitutional point in a debate, he dodged. He routinely talks about a president's "reign." He frequently proposes things that would violate checks-and-balances or Federalism. He never, ever refers to the Constitution or the Founders in any meaningful way - or at all really.

He's not Hitler by any means. But I don't think he'd let a centuries old document restrain him very much.

Posted by: person at May 26, 2016 03:41 PM (mFkVC)

266
Lotsa theories here.

Mine is that we fell for the racism charge. We let a thing so unprovable become equal to a verdict.

America's greatest weakness: we feel guilty because of slavery. You can leverage that into all kinds of self-destructive acts, including on the part of conservatives.

Posted by: iforgot at May 26, 2016 03:41 PM (pC96u)

267 >>>But you know #nevertrump. I hate these people as much as the liberal fascists.
Posted by: Marcus T at May 26, 2016 03:38 PM (O0lVq)>>>

Seems to me that the choice this year is between the liberal commie and the liberal fascist. I guess the liberal fascist is marginally better, but probably not enough to volunteer or vote for. We'll see.

Posted by: gm at May 26, 2016 03:41 PM (4ueYo)

268 As one who has been pretty excited about Trump from the beginning (the only candidate that has done that since Reagan), I welcome Ace's position. I regret he is not more receptive to Trump (who, I think, is a true conservative, without a professional politician's precision of language), but I do appreciate his thoughtful approach.

Thanks.

Posted by: One-Eyed Cat Peeping in the Seafood Store at May 26, 2016 03:41 PM (aeVIR)

269 Hot damn! You mean by voting for Trump I can stick it into the eye of Hillary, the Establishment GOP and the Conservative elite who damn well know what's good for us middle Amurrican mouth-breathers?

How many times can I vote?

Posted by: Uma Thurmond's Feet at May 26, 2016 03:41 PM (SHqMq)

270 >>>Because Trump is vulgar and embarrassing?

Actually I find those his most endearing qualities.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose at May 26, 2016 03:41 PM (0q2P7)

271 Now son don't be silly. She's been dead since 1929.

Go talk to Marianne. She has shaky hands.

And, since Trump and Romney are - policy-wise - identical twins

The main difference is immigration, if you believe Trump's speeches on the topic.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at May 26, 2016 03:41 PM (39g3+)

272 #HillaryHumpers

Posted by: CSMBigBird at May 26, 2016 03:42 PM (jsWA8)

273 It is odd that we finally have a candidate that through the shear force of his personality has shifted the Overton Window back to Modernity from postModernity on issues related to Borders and the Purpose of a Nation and Trade and it is Manhattan 'Thought Leaders' that find him unfit.

Manhattan Privilege is a real thing.

Posted by: Puddin Head at May 26, 2016 03:42 PM (oDCMR)

274 "It would be a useful inquiry to discover why that occurred, instead of just saying, as liberals do, "Republicans are stupid, racist, and afraid of The Other."""

I actually touched on that in the last thread. It's boring and being sold by boring people in the most boring way possible. They need to cut parts of it out gussy them up, get some great sales people (one Donald Trump comes to mind) and work on selling.

Karl Marx is the bore to end all bores so his acolytes don't sell him by getting together a seminar. No, they get some awesome rims, a stellar paint job, fuzzy dice and a chick like Lily to smile at you when they are making the sale and they unload that clunker.

Constitutional Conservatives need to lecture less, put down the g-d textbooks, and learn the fine art of hullabaloo and hype.

Posted by: *Mikey NTH - Lighter Fluid, Charcoal, and Othe Car-Be-Cue Supplies at the Outrage Outlet at May 26, 2016 03:42 PM (hLRSq)

275 "You wouldn't. It's so off the rails. The reaction so hysterical that you know these people fear a loss of income or privilege."

Or dare I say, worse. Lots of crimes to be investigated.

Posted by: The Demise Of Trump Brigade at May 26, 2016 03:42 PM (G0vb2)

276 I have an open mind. Trump's Supreme Court list was OK. He is talking about energy on TV now and that is good. He was hitting Obama for removing sanctions on Iran and its oil industry while putting sanctions on ours. That was a very nice way to frame taxes because there really is no difference between them and sanctions.

He, like every other president, will be a mixed bag. I think that Trump combined with a GOP House to rein him in when he goes wrong would be about the best we could hope for now. The GOP can retain the Senate, but as we have seen there is really no difference between Reid running it vs. McConman. And if both candidates have totalitarian impulses in certain areas then that is in Trump's favor too since the opposition controls all of the media and is more likely to hold him to account. Hillary would get a watered down version of the privilege pass that Obama got.

Anyway, that is how I am feeling today. It is subject to change. If the Libertarian guy polls well then he might be worth a look, but he was giggling inappropriately the last time I saw him on TV and I was wondering if maybe he was high. It was really odd.

Posted by: Thatch at May 26, 2016 03:42 PM (pBZp4)

277 227 Posted by: chique d'afrique, former Republican at May 26, 2016 03:36 PM (uz/Pv)

Brad Thor, and Beck were on about Trump.

Trump is a latin American style strongman after all.

Thor then puts "air quotes" around a hypothetical and discusses needing a dictator shot if he can't be impeached....in the same segment.

https://twitter.com/BradThor/status/735615301841244163

He even admits what he was discussing here, and simply ignores the segment's context....

Yup Trump is the nut in this picture.

Posted by: sven10077 at May 26, 2016 03:42 PM (g8Hfr)

278 Ugh. What a freakin clownshow this all is.----------Lizzy

Someone call me?

Posted by: Flaming Clown Boner at May 26, 2016 03:43 PM (0x/TW)

279 >>I see absolutely no evidence that Trump is even more conservative than Hillary.What I see a lot of is people projecting who they thought they voted for onto Trump.
Posted by: redbanzai at May 26, 2016 03:41 PM (3JA/M)
<<

Care to provide what you see as the evidence? On what basis exactly?

You know instead on arguing obscurities.

Posted by: Marcus T at May 26, 2016 03:43 PM (O0lVq)

280 Because once you take the ball off liberty, you lose everything. Slavery is slavery, whether global or national.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at May 26, 2016 03:39 PM (39g3+)

This.

Posted by: redbanzai at May 26, 2016 03:43 PM (3JA/M)

281 >>>Maybe the LIV's are the ones that will actually save this country.

Posted by: Soona at May 26, 2016 03:40 PM (Fmupd)>>>

Seems unlikely. Did we grab some bushman out of Africa and put him in charge of putting a man on the moon?

Posted by: gm at May 26, 2016 03:43 PM (4ueYo)

282 >>I barely got myself on the Romney train at the last moment. And, since Trump and Romney are - policy-wise - identical twins, I don't imagine I'll get on the Trump train any earlier, if at all.

Having lived in the northeast most of my life including during Romney's time as governor I can tell you their policy positions are not even close.

Romney was a bad campaigner and it cost him. He seemed incapable for fighting back and correcting the record but his actual record, nothing like what Trump is talking about.

Posted by: JackStraw at May 26, 2016 03:43 PM (/tuJf)

283 Going t a doctor's appt today, I stumbled on Bloomberg Radio. The interviewer was talking to some young kid (I suppose he was a pundit, but he sounded like a putz, so get off my lawn) about the democratic platform, Bernie, Hillary, and Trump. The kid said that "Bloomberg" had interviewed a "number" of CEO's and CFO's of "MAJOR" corporations, and "they couldn't understand why Trump has taken hold of the populace." The unsaid "unwashed peasants, bitter clingers, etc" could still be heard in their chortles and sighs of disbelief.

This is the problem with all the political types-they have contempt for the people they are trying to woo as voters, whether it's blacks and hispanics for Dems, or worwking class middle class for the Repubs. We aren't inside the Beltway, living in McLean, Arlington Potomac or Bethesda, or Georgetown, so what we think or believe really doesn't matter.

I guess this is why Trump, who at least pretends to care about the average voter, and Bernie, who looks and acts average, are stirring up such visceral support.

Posted by: Moki at May 26, 2016 03:43 PM (ezHMO)

284
By taking a percentage instead of a flat salay, Robert Downey made $50 million from the latest Avengers flix.

Posted by: Bruce With a Wang! at May 26, 2016 03:43 PM (iQIUe)

285 The beginning of the end of the American experiment was 2012. I always believed the country can survive a bad President, but it cannot survive a rabidly and willfully ignorant electorate. The presumptive nominees of each of the parties accurately reflect just how far down that road Americans have traveled.

Neither Clinton nor Trump is fit to occupy that office, and so neither will receive my vote. Either a Trump or Clinton administration will hasten our demise as a nation - it matters not which one gets elected. The only hope remaining as that some of the states will be strong enough to reconstitute the country when the two parties are finished tearing it apart.

Posted by: Sirius the Canine Pundit at May 26, 2016 03:43 PM (LBO1U)

286 I don't care for Trump, he wasn't even in my top ten when the field was full of candidates, however I cannot conceive of him fucking up so badly that would be worse than Hillary would do on purpose.

Posted by: Cocklebur at May 26, 2016 03:44 PM (2kh7p)

287 A lot of people who are lining up behind the comb over creep seem to forget how great a general election strategy Clinton hatred was in the 1996 and 1998 elections.

Here's a hint, Ace. If you can't tell me something positive about what Trump is certain to attempt to do if elected, maybe you are the one who needs to SYFU and reconsider your core principles versus your ego. But as you so readily know, everything out of his mouth is merely a suggestion, rather than a core principle or a policy statement because Trump has no moral core.

When both options are immoral, the moral thing to do is to walk away.






Posted by: NC Mountainl Girl at May 26, 2016 03:44 PM (x1d3E)

288 Didn't our esteemed and missed Dagny drop in here in the past few weeks and comment inter alia that "they" over at NRO (where she moderated comments?) had gone off the rails (paraphrasing from memory)?


Sad about Thor. Don't read much fiction, don't read his books, but think I heard him on radio once and he seemed sharp.


Posted by: rhomboid at May 26, 2016 03:44 PM (QDnY+)

289 I think one thing Trump supporters have a problem with is that they don't get that non-supporters don't grasp the wonderfulness they see in him.

There are a lot of emotionally-invested Trump supporters who take rejection of the candidate personally and get offended by it.

They assume non-supporters can't be persuaded (how can they possibly miss out on Trump's greatness) and assume that anyone who isn't on the Trump train is either a "Sore Cruzer," or an Establishment stooge who can't cope with "the loss of your power."

The idea that people can rationalize assess Mr. Trump and determine that he's just not right for the presidency just seizes up their circuits. They can't accept it. And so they argue as if all rejection of Trump is visceral and emotional.

Posted by: V the K at May 26, 2016 03:44 PM (O7MnT)

290 >>Seems to me that the choice this year is between the
liberal commie and the liberal fascist. I guess the liberal fascist is
marginally better, but probably not enough to volunteer or vote for.
We'll see.
Posted by: gm at May 26, 2016 03:41 PM (4ueYo)
<<

I notice the comments against Trump are mostly ad hominems with no substance. I have yet to see an actual, factual, intellectual argument in support of these arguments.

Posted by: Marcus T at May 26, 2016 03:44 PM (O0lVq)

291 The horrid Barbara Boxer retired and it looks like she's going to be replaced by another equally bad woman. One is the hot AG who is prosecuting the guy that out the PP baby parts videos, and the other got elected by illegal alien voter fraud the first time and is a far left laraza wack job.

Posted by: Tinfoilbaby at May 26, 2016 03:44 PM (6Ll1u)

292 >>>The shoe is on the other foot for both sides.

Posted by: broseidon king of the brocean at May 26, 2016 03:11 PM (kumBu)>>>

How is the shoe on the other foot, when every friggin' year, I have people telling me that I have to vote for some socially liberal, big government GOP clown who pretends to be against illegal immigration? Seems like shoes on the same foot every year.

Posted by: gm at May 26, 2016 03:45 PM (4ueYo)

293 >> Agreed. Hillary is not the enemy. My goal is not to simply
>> defeat Hillary. Progressiveism is the enemy.

There are three issues at work with Hillary:

a) The Progressive Agenda
b) The Democrat Nixon
c) The Clinton Dynasty

(a) is self-evident. You want tranny toilets, vote Hillary.

(b) is a very very big one for me. Conspiracy to evade Federal records laws? Doing it so fecklessly that you expose national security information to trivial hacks and probably yourself to blackmail as well? What she's done is worse than anything Nixon did - because of the national-security implications - and is IMO an immediate disqualification for the Presidency.

(c) I'm also very big on the 'No more Bushes no more Clintons' but at least Jeb isn't demonstrably a crook.

Posted by: JEM at May 26, 2016 03:45 PM (o+SC1)

294 And with that, I'm gonna go sit on the boat and drink beer and see if my new wifi connection works. If not, the beer will still work.

Posted by: JackStraw at May 26, 2016 03:45 PM (/tuJf)

295 I think that Trump combined with a GOP House to rein him in when he goes wrong would be about the best we could hope for now

He is the best we can hope for, now. We're in a situation where we're being asked which testicle we want shot off. The left one that hangs lower? Or the right one?

Neither choice is ideal. Both are pretty awful. Either way, in the end, we lose.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at May 26, 2016 03:45 PM (39g3+)

296 I think Presdent Obama should do something about Trump's lies about Senator Standers. he is a wise man and woulds be good fur our country. Please votes for Semator Sanders in the upcoming Californica primaries.

Posted by: Mary Clogginstien from Brattleboro, VT at May 26, 2016 03:45 PM (NuElX)

297 @228 "...I'm not telling anyone how to vote, especially not when it comes to someone as polarizing as Trump. I was criticizing the DC/NYC media people who lecture the GOP masses each election season.

Posted by: Lizzy at May 26, 2016 03:36 PM (NOIQH)"


WTH is do damn "polarizing" about Trump? Really it's a matter of the media lying about him on some hot-button issues. Build a wall? Common sense. Temporarily stop Muslim immigration? The same common sense that should be applied to any communicable disease - a quarantine (although there's a problem in actually identifying who is actually Muslim).

They say he hates Hispanics, and that's unsupported. They say he said all Mexicans are rapists. Another lie. He said a relative handful of nasty things to some people he was arguing with over the past 40 years. BFD.

He said some negative things about previous Republican Presidents and/or candidates. Join the club! What are we? DEMOCRATS?

"He a DEMOCRAT!" Gimme a break!! Have you even HEARD what Democrats SOUND like these days? Bill Clinton is barely a Democrat!!!

Posted by: Optimizer at May 26, 2016 03:46 PM (jPHi7)

298 Thanks, ace, for the clarification.

BTW, even though I'll probably vote for the orange caudillo, I liked what Brad Thor said, except for the Sullivan part. Ignoring the hyperbole, I thought he was mostly correct.

I have the right to say bad things about our nominee, even if our nominee doesn't support that right.

Posted by: stace at May 26, 2016 03:46 PM (ozZau)

299 210 I was just reading Brad Thor's Twitter feed.

I've met and conversed with the man twice now, and was impressed with him as a patriot and warm, friendly person.

I listened to the feed from Beck's show (can't stand Beck), and he DID NOT call for Trump to be assassinated.

However, a Trump supporter tweeted that he hoped President Trump would send Thor "to the gas chambers."

I'll hold my nose and vote Trump, but I've had it with this election season. I've never seen nastier business.
Posted by: Jane D'oh at May 26, 2016 03:33 PM (1ZOkK)

I took it as his meaning exactly that as he started off saying "What I'm about to suggest is terrible"

I don't think it's fair to hold anonymous Twitter users to the same standards as a prominent writer.

Posted by: Christi at May 26, 2016 03:46 PM (IvmKU)

300 The conservative movement failed because it hasn't been represented! Too many RINOs and GOPe votes have made sure that the conservative stance on every issue failed. And conservatives are sick and tired of voting for more of the same. The economy is on life support, the nation's finances are drowning in debt, morality and family values have been beaten down and continue to be assaulted from every angle. But in D.C. none of that matters. Congress and the Senate continue to allow all of this to continue on with no more than token shows of opposition before rolling over and allowing it to continue unabated. Meanwhile, conservative pundits such as Ace have been preaching about burning the whole GOP down and starting over. Enter Trump. If he wins, something is finally going to change. Whether he burns down the GOPe or the Democrat party, or all of D.C., he's definitely going to be different than the last 20 years of conservatives being ignored.

Posted by: pete at May 26, 2016 03:46 PM (meg+g)

301 Wow just went over to NRO to gauge the mood there. The tell (among many) was that there was a Hilary! ad on the page.

Right, the Clinton Campaign is advertising on NRO, and obviously thinks it is worth it.

Interesting.....But the NRO assholes ought to consider getting on the goddam bus, as that is what they say whenever it's a candidate that has US holding OUR noses.

Posted by: West at May 26, 2016 03:46 PM (raBzy)

302 >>>Thor then puts "air quotes" around a hypothetical and discusses needing a dictator shot if he can't be impeached....in the same segment.

Really when did they say "shot" I didn't get that. Maybe you could pull a quote for me where they actually explicitly say something about killing him.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose at May 26, 2016 03:46 PM (0q2P7)

303 >>>I notice the comments against Trump are mostly ad hominems with no substance. I have yet to see an actual, factual, intellectual argument in support of these arguments.
Posted by: Marcus T at May 26, 2016 03:44 PM (O0lVq)>>>

A description of his policy preferences is not an ad hominem. But, I was just using your words, bubba. Take it up with Marcus T.

Posted by: gm at May 26, 2016 03:46 PM (4ueYo)

304 >>>Folks that get all 'holier-than-thou' and claim they'll sit this election out don't seem to realize that even if they don't vote, they're still voting

I understand that exactly. My vote concerning Trump/Hillary is "This decision will be made without me" I will go to the polls. But since the choice is FOR Hillary or FOR Trump, I afraid I have to vote Present.
Posted by: MikeTheMoose at May 26, 2016 03:40 PM (0q2P7)

I'll skip or write in for president and vote down ballot.

Posted by: chique d'afrique, former Republican at May 26, 2016 03:46 PM (uz/Pv)

305 Karl Marx is the bore to end all bores so his acolytes don't sell him by getting together a seminar. No, they



kill 50 million people.

Posted by: rickb223 at May 26, 2016 03:46 PM (EdhH3)

306 "Because once you take the ball off liberty, you lose everything"

You have to have a country first. With no country, nation, borders there is no liberty.

We've witnessed it where illegals have more rights than citizen do.

Posted by: The Demise Of Trump Brigade at May 26, 2016 03:47 PM (G0vb2)

307
A lot of people who are lining up behind the comb over creep seem to forget how great a general election strategy Clinton hatred was in the 1996 and 1998 elections.

It ain't 1996 anymore.

Posted by: Flawless Male Logic at May 26, 2016 03:47 PM (lKyWE)

308 Care to provide what you see as the evidence? On what basis exactly?

You know instead on arguing obscurities.


Posted by: Marcus T at May 26, 2016 03:43 PM (O0lVq)

Radically pro-abortion... check
pro-gun control (see Trump's 2012 tweets)... check
pro-single payer health care and individual mandate... check
pro-amnesty (with or without touchback)... check
mean, nasty, characterless individuals prone to the politics of personal destruction... check, check, check

Now tell me again why I should care who of those two gets elected?

Posted by: redbanzai at May 26, 2016 03:47 PM (3JA/M)

309 I'm not more happier that it's Trump, just watched a long live feed of Trump in Bismarck. He's got nothing, but also saw Hillary a little while ago and she is frightening and should be in prison. So that's the choice, no one else it's going to be one or the other.

Posted by: Skip at May 26, 2016 03:47 PM (3wHFl)

310 I think at some point people have to realize a majority of the electorate has changes and you have to start with doing what you can, rather than what you would personally want. Politics has never, and will never be a zero sum game.

Posted by: Marcus T at May 26, 2016 03:47 PM (O0lVq)

311 The choice this year isn't left vs right. It isn't good vs evil. It isn't even Democrat vs Republican.

Its nationalist vs globalist. Which do you prefer? We'd be better off with liberty vs slavery, but that's not what we ended up with. Nationalism is marginally better than globalism, but either way we lose our liberty.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at May 26, 2016 03:47 PM (39g3+)

312 There seems to be a concentration of people in the writing business who are awed and impressed with titles and positions.

When the skating rink in Central Park lay unusable for 6 years being repaired by the experts with decades of public service to city, Trump was asking why it's taking so long.

With a projection from City Engineers, Procurement Managers and Public Works Supervisors, experts all with the type of resumes and experience that would wow our right wing writers, of a remaining 3 years and millions of dollars to complete the job, Trump took over and finished it in a few months.

Our journalistic elite just can't get their heads around how something like that happens.

Everything they know and believe in is turned on it's head when system they've grown up in fails and someone on the outside shows how the world actually works.

They know their dogma speaks to that, but they can't seem to apply it.

Trump is the problem.

Our right wing writers are.

Posted by: jwest at May 26, 2016 03:47 PM (Zs4uk)

313 285
The beginning of the end of the American experiment was 2012.


Posted by: Sirius the Canine Pundit at May 26, 2016 03:43 PM (LBO1U)



No, the beginning of the end was the election of 1796 when when big government worshiper Adams was elected and he put we own the Constitution John Marshall on the Supreme Court.


The final end came in 1865 when big Washington took 100% control of the government over the States.

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at May 26, 2016 03:48 PM (vvmPQ)

314 Mental illness and depravity.

https://pjmedia.com/instapundit/234689-2/

Posted by: steevy at May 26, 2016 03:48 PM (B48dK)

315 Apology accepted, Captain Ace.

Posted by: Darth Vader at May 26, 2016 03:48 PM (71OEY)

316 299 Posted by: Christi at May 26, 2016 03:46 PM (IvmKU)

What's terrible about an out of control strictly hypothetical dictator getting his brains blown out?

I'm confused.

Hell make it Hitler and you'd have a blockbuster novel or film...

I'm thinking his "air quotes" terrible was because he was making exactly the point.

Posted by: sven10077 at May 26, 2016 03:48 PM (g8Hfr)

317 >> Now tell me again why I should care who of those two gets
>> elected?

Because there's hope Trump can be manipulated into doing the right thing.

Posted by: JEM at May 26, 2016 03:48 PM (o+SC1)

318 "Because once you take the ball off liberty, you lose everything"

You have to have a country first. With no country, nation, borders there is no liberty.

-------------

I like the first point. Not sure I agree with the counter.

Posted by: SH at May 26, 2016 03:48 PM (gmeXX)

319 264 I see absolutely no evidence that Trump is even more conservative than Hillary.
What I see a lot of is people projecting who they thought they voted for onto Trump.


Posted by: redbanzai at May 26, 2016 03:41 PM (3JA/M)
------------------------------------------------

Going issue by issue, I think Trump is more conservative economically and on most regulation. He might be to the left of President Hillary on a number of issues too, I agree. It comes down to the deals he strikes for conservative support in the very near term.

If he agrees to appoint solely from his published SCOTUS list, I'd enthusiastically vote for him on that alone. Unfortunately he started backtracking from the list practically the minute it was released.

Cruz is my weather vane on Trump. If Cruz makes a deal with Trump I am betting it is based on judges.

Posted by: MTF at May 26, 2016 03:49 PM (/m8T6)

320 So what do ya'll think about Trump going after Gov Martinez? Is that an example of his party unification plan?

Posted by: stace at May 26, 2016 03:49 PM (ozZau)

321 Radically pro-abortion... check
pro-gun control (see Trump's 2012 tweets)... check
pro-single payer health care and individual mandate... check
pro-amnesty (with or without touchback)... check
mean, nasty, characterless individuals prone to the politics of personal destruction... check, check, check

Now tell me again why I should care who of those two gets elected?
Posted by: redbanzai at May 26, 2016 03:47 PM (3JA/M)

He's also to the left of Hillary on trade and (in terms of the last several decades) international relations.

Posted by: person at May 26, 2016 03:49 PM (mFkVC)

322 I'm not willing to let it burn.......I want a good country and opportunity for my child. Call me selfish, but I will tolerate Trump this time and hope for someone to pull their head out of their ass and actually LEAD this country and make it what it SHOULD be.

For my kid. She DESERVES it.

I will NEVER vote for a Democrat ever again and REFUSE to sit and let Hillary Clunton destroy what's left of a free country.

Posted by: Sponge at May 26, 2016 03:49 PM (xttKs)

323 Meh why apologize?

Let's give #nevertrump their assumptions. Let's say Trump will be one thousand times worse than Hillary will be, than Bernie could be, than Obama was. He is more cunning and conniving and organized and persuasive than all of the above, and he is evil incarnate.

Cries of "Oh my goodness fascisssssssm! Oh my goodness autocracyyyyyy!" show a lack of faith in our system. If you believe literally one celebrity and his runaway toupee can tear down our entire system - one which withstood so much else - from a largely ceremonial position, then why bother protecting it? It's clearly nothing important if Trump will end it.

I don't believe that. The suggestion that Trump is Dictator Zero is laughable. Bush Derangement Syndrome on roids with a sprinkling of fratricide.

So just stick to posturing to impress liberal friends. It's much more honest and looks less stupid than the suggestion that Trump is the one and only existential threat that could ever deal an instantaneous death blow to representative government in America.

Posted by: 0302 at May 26, 2016 03:49 PM (wx6iv)

324 I think that the choice between Hillary and Trump is the choice, in Sophie's Choice : which of her two children is to be murdered by the Nazis?

Take my baby!!! May have settled it in Sophie's Choice, but the eventual suicide of the lovers who remain may give you a hint into what endless cavern such a choice takes one.

Posted by: Trump's Stubby Fingers at May 26, 2016 03:50 PM (SJ184)

325 Seems unlikely. Did we grab some bushman out of Africa and put him in charge of putting a man on the moon?
Posted by: gm at May 26, 2016 03:43 PM (4ueYo)


------------


I see that the word "correlation" is not in your vocabulary.

Posted by: Soona at May 26, 2016 03:50 PM (Fmupd)

326 NeverTrump has become an industry and a fad. I despise the man and would vote for Petersen if the Libertarians nominate him (I won't vote for Gary Bake-Me-A-Fucking-Cake Johnson). I can't say now if I would vote for Trump. Maybe he assembles a Dream Team cabinet. Maybe he's impeached and replaced in a grand conspiracy. If most of his own party and all of the significant media save for Breitbart hate him, can he really get away with much? Does a Paul Ruan endorsement mean he won't openly defy him in the future?
What I do know is people like Rick Wilson and Liz Mair have achieved a level of fame and income they never would have without NeverTrump. Also the hysteria around there movement turns me off in the same way the rabid excitement for Rubio turned me off.

Posted by: Freedom Sauce at May 26, 2016 03:50 PM (BcQC4)

327 Unless that rethinking involves not starting wars we all know won't be won and a ban on immigration, don't bother.

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at May 26, 2016 03:50 PM (4ErVI)

328 And, since Trump and Romney are - policy-wise - identical twins, I don't
imagine I'll get on the Trump train any earlier, if at all.


An interesting comment, based on Romney's obsession with #NeverTrump. Maybe Mittsy is just jealous that Trump will implement the Romney/Ryan agenda?

Posted by: One-Eyed Cat Peeping in the Seafood Store at May 26, 2016 03:50 PM (aeVIR)

329 8
People always take stuff personally.

Posted by: @votermom at May 26, 2016 03:03 PM (7lVbc)

That offends me.

Posted by: Mimzey at May 26, 2016 03:51 PM (aRUb8)

330 >>>310 I think at some point people have to realize a majority of the electorate has changes and you have to start with doing what you can, rather than what you would personally want. Politics has never, and will never be a zero sum game.
Posted by: Marcus T at May 26, 2016 03:47 PM (O0lVq)>>>

Elect a Democrat or a Republican, we get what the Democrats and their voters want. Democrats treat politics as a zero sum game and, thus, win in a zero sum way.

Posted by: gm at May 26, 2016 03:51 PM (4ueYo)

331
Now tell me again why I should care who of those two gets >> elected?
Because Clinton wants to automatically register illegals to vote when they get a driver license

Posted by: Flawless Male Logic at May 26, 2016 03:51 PM (lKyWE)

332 You have to have a country first. With no country, nation, borders there is no liberty.

If you don't fight first and foremost for liberty, what does it matter whether you have national boundaries or not?

As human beings, the highest goal we can have after service to God is liberty among our fellow man. The highest. Losing sight of that means we lose it all. Freedom is worth dying for, let alone voting for. America lost sight of that, and we're all paying the price.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at May 26, 2016 03:51 PM (39g3+)

333 @276 "... I think that Trump combined with a GOP House to rein him in when he goes wrong would be about the best we could hope for now. ...
Posted by: Thatch at May 26, 2016 03:42 PM (pBZp4)"


It's ironic, but usually having Congress and the WH both controlled by the same party is a recipe for trouble (like ObamaCare), yet Trump appears to be a way to avoid that.

What we would normally expect is for Republicans to push some religiously-motivated agenda down the country's throat, claiming a "mandate", INSTEAD OF doing what they were actually sent there for - to undo the damage caused by the Democrats.

Posted by: Optimizer at May 26, 2016 03:51 PM (jPHi7)

334 Is this out on video yet ?

Posted by: The Jackhole somewhere on Ventura Highway at May 26, 2016 03:51 PM (dULJN)

335 I don't believe that.

------------

I don't believe it either. Which is why I don't believe in the necessity of stopping Hillary at all costs.

Posted by: SH at May 26, 2016 03:51 PM (gmeXX)

336 Karl Marx is the bore to end all bores so his acolytes don't sell him by getting together a seminar. No, they



kill 50 million people.

Posted by: rickb223 at May 26, 2016 03:46 PM (EdhH3)


They killed 50 million in this country?

Why wasn't I told this!?!

Posted by: *Mikey NTH - Lighter Fluid, Charcoal, and Othe Car-Be-Cue Supplies at the Outrage Outlet at May 26, 2016 03:51 PM (hLRSq)

337 You virtue signaling #nevertrumpers are a full blown clown show. Best bet right now is that Trump will be a second Reagan, but for these times, not the times Reagan had to deal with. Unlike Reagan, who was tasked to win the Cold War but left Fed Government bigger than when it took over, the Fed Government will be smaller by the time Trump leaves, and the economy on the mend.

The business of America, is business. Trump will show you all why that is a truism. Just watch.

Posted by: mycherrysamores at May 26, 2016 03:51 PM (k1Zq7)

338
The best I can bring myself to hope for this year is paul ryan losing a primary or a general election. I guess I will most likely be disappointed, but that conservative district has one hell of a fake conservative in the House.

I would like to see a thread on this repub bathroom sellout since it was news to me.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at May 26, 2016 03:52 PM (ODxAs)

339 Several weeks ago Thor plagiarized a tweet from a journalist. When called out about it from the writer he kept trying to play stupid like saying he ran out of charachters(which he hadn't) and he obviously understands how to quote a tweet. Eventually he reluctantly apologized like a weasel.

If you want to behave and moralize the way Thor does you should really avoid plagiarism.

Posted by: Christi at May 26, 2016 03:52 PM (IvmKU)

340 Ace, I don't know if you saw or not, but Caleb Howe posted a blog piece last night that basically accused you of being a paid Trump shill. That little fuck

Posted by: Freedom Sauce at May 26, 2016 03:52 PM (BcQC4)

341 >>>An interesting comment, based on Romney's obsession with #NeverTrump. Maybe Mittsy is just jealous that Trump will implement the Romney/Ryan agenda?
Posted by: One-Eyed Cat Peeping in the Seafood Store at May 26, 2016 03:50 PM (aeVIR)>>>

A difference in style over substance. A personality difference that does not allow reconciliation.

Posted by: gm at May 26, 2016 03:52 PM (4ueYo)

342

There's a reason the "conservative movement," such as it is, failed.

Failure to implement properly is a time tested mismanagement tool at every level.

Posted by: DaveA at May 26, 2016 03:52 PM (DL2i+)

343 > when a President elected, assorted bureaucrats come along for the ride.

What most people don't realize is that unelected, Professional Bureaucrats stay in place for their entire working life. They DON'T change, at all, when a new President comes along.

All of them are wedded to implementing the policies in place, to preserve their individual power empires. They are NOT going to change willingly, just because someone else gets elected.

Anything President Trump would try to implement will be resisted.

Lots of footdragging will happen.

Unless he does something completely unique, and unforseen, to circumvent these "civil servants" hold on things...

Posted by: just wait, you won't believe what happens next at May 26, 2016 03:52 PM (25+/B)

344 My voting evolution:
1980 -.Reagan - yay!
1984.- Reagan - yay!
1988 - Bush I - yay!....oh, wait...
1992 - Bush I - -_-
1996 - Dole - (nose hurts from pinching shut)
2000 - Bush II -.meh
2004.- Bush II - double meh
2008.- McCain -.because, Palin
2012.- Romney - with fingers crossed
2016 -.Trump - because, eff it

Posted by: Russkilitlover at May 26, 2016 03:53 PM (Vc7DH)

345 313 Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at May 26, 2016 03:48 PM (vvmPQ)
------------------------------------------------

Nuts to that Vic. From a Constitutional perspective I think it was when FDR successfully packed the court (I know school kids are taught he failed, but look at what actually happened in case law thereafter) and it was the post-war dramatic expansion of the administrative apparatus, especially under Nixon.

Posted by: MTF at May 26, 2016 03:53 PM (/m8T6)

346 >>Now tell me again why I should care who of those two gets elected?
Posted by: redbanzai at May 26, 2016 03:47 PM (3JA/M)
<<

Maybe you should cite his current positions, which he has made very clear.

Or should we go back to the "at one time Reagan supported abortion" fact and move forward from there?

I may not know precisely what I will get from Trump. But I do know what will come from Hillary. Which is more of what is destroying my friends, neighbors and leaving my brothers without leadership and what they need on the battlefield.

You want to live in a delusional world where you make sophistic arguments- go right ahead. But I am going to vote for what I believe is best for my family and community...I've never been a coward who sits on his hands and stays home or is unable to identify real threats like Hillary and that won't change until my dying breath.

Posted by: Marcus T at May 26, 2016 03:53 PM (O0lVq)

347 Very good post and explanation, ace. And I agree - even just a little bit of introspection by the folks who have betrayed the public's trust, and making an effort to understand why they're so pissed off, would make a nice change of pace.

Posted by: Insomniac at May 26, 2016 03:53 PM (0mRoj)

348 >>>If you want to behave and moralize the way Thor does you should really avoid plagiarism.
Posted by: Christi at May 26, 2016 03:52 PM (IvmKU)>>>

What if you want to behave and moralize like a Democrat VP?

Posted by: gm at May 26, 2016 03:53 PM (4ueYo)

349 >>> If you believe literally one celebrity and his runaway toupee can tear down our entire system...
****

Worked fine for me, even without the toupee.

Someone hand me my pen and phone.

Posted by: Barack Obama at May 26, 2016 03:53 PM (71OEY)

350 The fact that #Never_Trump continues to wave the red hanky at him proves they don't know WTF they're doing.

Posted by: DaveA at May 26, 2016 03:53 PM (DL2i+)

351 345 Nuts to that Vic. From a Constitutional perspective
I think it was when FDR successfully packed the court (I know school
kids are taught he failed, but look at what actually happened in case
law thereafter) and it was the post-war dramatic expansion of the
administrative apparatus, especially under Nixon.

Posted by: MTF at May 26, 2016 03:53 PM (/m8T6)

I said the "beginning of the end"; not the end of the end.

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at May 26, 2016 03:54 PM (vvmPQ)

352 I don't like Donald Trump. I don't trust him. I believe he lies through his teeth about the wall and immigration. I think he's center-left at best and will be awful in office.

But there is nothing more insane and utterly lacking in comprehension of reality than saying he's the same as or worse than Hillary. That is abjectly dumber than using a heated iron to dry out your underwear... while wearing it. Someone that utterly unaware of reality should not be allowed to live without adult supervision.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at May 26, 2016 03:54 PM (39g3+)

353 Trump is a poor fit for the WH.
However, Hillary is a guranteed disaster and there WILL be blood if she wins. Period.

Posted by: Tilikum KAW at May 26, 2016 03:54 PM (m3iiU)

354 I will not vote Trump or Hillary but I will not vote extra hard for Trump... because fuck that guy who fooled people who have been claiming to be conservative into voting for Obamacare, radical abortion positions and the destruction of free trade.

Posted by: redbanzai at May 26, 2016 03:16 PM (3JA/M)


See ya in the camps, then, honey.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at May 26, 2016 03:54 PM (zKSco)

355 >>>The business of America, is business. Trump will show you all why that is a truism. Just watch.

I desperately and sincerely hope you are correct. I just don't think that you are.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose at May 26, 2016 03:54 PM (0q2P7)

356 Having lived in the northeast most of my life including during Romney's time as governor I can tell you their policy positions are not even close.

Romney was a bad campaigner and it cost him. He seemed incapable for fighting back and correcting the record but his actual record, nothing like what Trump is talking about.
Posted by: JackStraw at May 26, 2016 03:43 PM (/tuJf)

I'm glad you stated this. Trump is an authoritarian. Romney wasn't talking up tariffs. For example. He is not like Romney or even the loathsome McCain.

Posted by: chique d'afrique, former Republican at May 26, 2016 03:54 PM (uz/Pv)

357 Unless he does something completely unique, and unforseen, to circumvent these "civil servants" hold on things...

Posted by: just wait, you won't believe what happens next at May 26, 2016 03:52 PM (25+/B)


He'll have a pen and a phone. TFG set the precedent.

Posted by: Sponge at May 26, 2016 03:55 PM (xttKs)

358 "I may not know precisely what I will get from Trump. But I do know what will come from Hillary."

Here's where I am on this. We're on a jetliner with three engines on fire. Trump might actually call in a mayday and try to land the thing. Maybe. Hillary will deliberately auger it in.

Posted by: Insomniac at May 26, 2016 03:55 PM (0mRoj)

359 >>>You want to live in a delusional world where you make sophistic arguments- go right ahead.

Posted by: Marcus T at May 26, 2016 03:53 PM (O0lVq)>>>

It is delusional to trust the words of a modern GOP pol, particularly when they contradict most everything in said pol's history.

Posted by: gm at May 26, 2016 03:55 PM (4ueYo)

360 320 So what do ya'll think about Trump going after Gov Martinez? Is that an example of his party unification plan?

Posted by: stace at May 26, 2016 03:49 PM (ozZau)

What do you think about Martinez publicly criticizing him and refusing a personal meeting to discuss their differences? Would you rather him sit back and take it like a good GOPe?

Posted by: Christi at May 26, 2016 03:55 PM (IvmKU)

361 259
Trump / Cotton Sounds luxurious.
Best ctton in the world you won't believe how good it is.Way better than the Egyptian cotton made in a country that rips us off, takes American jobsand they want to kill us too
Posted by: Flawless Male Logic at May 26, 2016 03:40 PM (lKyWE)

I LOLed

Posted by: josephistan at May 26, 2016 03:55 PM (7HtZB)

362 320 So what do ya'll think about Trump going after Gov Martinez? Is that an example of his party unification plan?

Posted by: stace at May 26, 2016 03:49 PM (ozZau)


Trump had to take a shot at her.

She made the decision to let the press know she was going to be too busy to meet with Trump. She had to make the statement hoping the press would see her as principled and clever.

Trump had no alternative than to shoot back and let her know how insignificant she is. Not for her sake, but as a warning to other public officials who might have seen making a disparaging statement about Trump as their ticket to 15 minutes of fame.

This is basic alpha dog stuff. Nip at my ass and I'll rip your throat out.

Posted by: jwest at May 26, 2016 03:55 PM (Zs4uk)

363
So what do ya'll think about Trump going after Gov Martinez? Is that an example of his party unification plan?


She deserved it.The republican nominee is speaking in her state,she is being pushed as a possible VP on the Trump ticket and she announces she is just too damn busy with something to attend his rally.what the fuck could be so important in NM?

Posted by: Flawless Male Logic at May 26, 2016 03:56 PM (lKyWE)

364 To EVERYONE claiming how bad Trump is that they could never vote for him: look at his list of Supreme Court nominees. If everything else he does is as bad as it could be, at least his SC nominations will set the stage for a near future recovery of conservative values. Give the presidency to Hillary, and you've fucked conservative ideals for at least 20 years. So stop weighing this election as a vote for turd A or turd B. Consider this election as your chance to shape the future of the Supreme Court. Do you want a progressive/activist supreme court, or a constitutional/conservative supreme court?

Posted by: pete at May 26, 2016 03:56 PM (meg+g)

365 Sorry to come across as over the top - I'm sure I do, I'm passionate about this.

The thing is, Trump really doesn't seem to know basic US civics or care to learn them. When Rand Paul pressed him on a Constitutional point in a debate, he dodged. He routinely talks about a president's "reign." He frequently proposes things that would violate checks-and-balances or Federalism. He never, ever refers to the Constitution or the Founders in any meaningful way - or at all really.

He's not Hitler by any means. But I don't think he'd let a centuries old document restrain him very much.
Posted by: person at May 26, 2016 03:41 PM (mFkVC)


And...we currently have in the White House a Constitutional scholar who was the editor of Harvard Law Review and taught constitutional law at the University of Chicago.

And you are worried that Donald Trump, who was born in the USA, grew up in the USA, has worked and lived his entire life here, has no grasp of the US Constitution or would not adhere to it once he is president?
Unlike the Constitutional Lawyer and Professor in the White House now?

Posted by: Jen the original at May 26, 2016 03:56 PM (Smc8E)

366 Hillary annoys me.
Trump scares me.

Posted by: Spoonman at May 26, 2016 03:56 PM (PcHwJ)

367 351 I said the "beginning of the end"; not the end of the end.


Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at May 26, 2016 03:54 PM (vvmPQ)
--------------------------------------------

I should learn "reading is fundamental"

Posted by: MTF at May 26, 2016 03:57 PM (/m8T6)

368 >>Elect a Democrat or a Republican, we get what the
Democrats and their voters want. Democrats treat politics as a zero sum
game and, thus, win in a zero sum way.
Posted by: gm at May 26, 2016 03:51 PM (4ueYo)
<<

They curb stomp and roll over democratic process. They disregard constitution and obfuscate the law by packing courts with their supporters.

I have to laugh that people complain all day long about their schools, communities, gay cakes, transgender bathrooms, racial disharmony and the rest of the liberal fascist agenda, then have the balls to say I'm sitting home or #nevertrump.

Posted by: Marcus T at May 26, 2016 03:57 PM (O0lVq)

369 366 Hillary annoys me.
Trump scares me.

other way around for me.

Posted by: Pug Mahon at May 26, 2016 03:57 PM (RwwCT)

370 I take responsibility for my vote, my pen, and my voice. I will support only those candidates who meet my standards. If no candidate manages this, then my position is none-of-the-above. I will either not vote the top of the ticket, vote for a third party candidate, or write someone in. I reject false choices. #NeverTrump #NeverHillary #AlwaysConservative

D.GOOCH

Posted by: GOOCH at May 26, 2016 03:57 PM (cxLzw)

371 367 351 I said the "beginning of the end"; not the end of the end.


Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at May 26, 2016 03:54 PM (vvmPQ)

Or maybe it's the end of the beginning?

Whoa. Mind. Blown.

Posted by: Insomniac at May 26, 2016 03:57 PM (0mRoj)

372 Nood to fill in while making the podcast

Posted by: Skip at May 26, 2016 03:57 PM (3wHFl)

373 Hillary annoys me.
Trump scares me.

Posted by: Spoonman at May 26, 2016 03:56 PM (PcHwJ)


Then you're backwards, IMHO. I think Clunton will do WAY more destruction to American AND the world in the Owebama way. I don't think Trump will do that.

Posted by: Sponge at May 26, 2016 03:58 PM (xttKs)

374 So what do ya'll think about Trump going after Gov Martinez? Is that an example of his party unification plan?

-----

You mean the unification plan where she tried to embarass Trump and use the press as her messenger boys??

THAT unification plan.???

She deserved to get schlonged.

Posted by: fixerupper at May 26, 2016 03:58 PM (8XRCm)

375 >>>366 Hillary annoys me.
Trump scares me.
Posted by: Spoonman at May 26, 2016 03:56 PM (PcHwJ)>>>

There's no way that Trump is scarier than Hillary. Imagine the architect of Benghazi in charge of national defense.

Posted by: gm at May 26, 2016 03:58 PM (4ueYo)

376 The Never Trumpers who feel the need to loudly proclaim, on a daily basis, that they will never ever vote for Trump, remind me of vegans. We get it, you can stfu now.

Posted by: Real joe at May 26, 2016 03:58 PM (2gGwJ)

377 Fucking Romney.

Posted by: Grump928(c) says Free Soothie!, with purchase of commentor of equal or greater value at May 26, 2016 03:58 PM (c5CJQ)

378 Why are so many people so concerned when some people say they are sitting this election out? It really makes no difference in nearly all States if a Republican here and there sits it out.


There are only a few States like FL, VA, OH, and now NC where every vote counts. I don't plan on voting this election and it will have zero impact on SC. It will go Republican by a large margin whether I vote or not.


Presidential voting only matters State by State, the population vote doesn't count, and neither does county by county as someone tried to bring up a few days ago.

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at May 26, 2016 03:58 PM (vvmPQ)

379 To my follow Texans in Dallas and Amarillo - Max Thornberry and Pete Sessions did Paul Ryan's bidding yesterday and killed Paul Gosar's amendment to stop allowing illegals to gain citizenship by joining the military.

They will not respond to out of district questions so maybe somebody they get votes from can ask them why and report back.

Posted by: DanMan at May 26, 2016 03:58 PM (RusNE)

380 What most people don't realize is that unelected, Professional Bureaucrats stay in place for their entire working life. They DON'T change, at all, when a new President comes along.

Anyone remember the Travel Office scandal under the Clintons? I know, it was a long time ago. Some of you were only a glint in your father's eye at the time.

Hillary Clinton drummed up false charges about a bunch of people in the White House Travel office and got them fired. Why? Because they wouldn't let the Clintons abuse the privilege and were resisting her use of the vehicles etc. And they were unionized and locked in and could not be fired.

Unless they were criminal.

The Clintons cleaned house like that, getting rid of Reagan-era hires and promotions. Because they knew the bureaucracy was the real power in the office, just like the secretaries are in charge, not the executives.

Bush didn't do that. He left them in and had to fight them constantly, facing leaks, lies, fraud, and foot-dragging his entire administration.

These people don't get fired when the new president comes in. They serve for decades, through all sorts of administrations. And today, they're even harder to fire than ever with new iron clad contracts. Recently, a cabinet office had to bribe a sex offender, a kiddy diddler to leave office because he couldn't be fired.

That's the problem with government. That's why we're in this place, because they all loooove Obama and will do anything he wants without even being asked, and he will never rein them in. The next president has these guys and will have to deal with them. Trump can't just yell "you're fired" and they all file out the door sheepish and head low. They shrug and go back to work to stop him.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at May 26, 2016 03:59 PM (39g3+)

381 >>>I have to laugh that people complain all day long about their schools, communities, gay cakes, transgender bathrooms, racial disharmony and the rest of the liberal fascist agenda, then have the balls to say I'm sitting home or #nevertrump.
Posted by: Marcus T at May 26, 2016 03:57 PM (O0lVq)>>>

I have to laugh at people who think Trump will do anything different.

Posted by: gm at May 26, 2016 03:59 PM (4ueYo)

382 Good write up Ace.

Billy Kristol is an ass and hasn't realized that fascism is here already in the form of Obama, the IRS, the EPA, Tesla Motors, and on and on.

Mussolini was a piker compared to Bush and Obama.

Mr. Kristol is exactly what is wrong and has gone wrong with conservatism. He needs to come down from his Ivory Tower some time and rub elbows with the great unwashed.

Posted by: Hairyback Guy at May 26, 2016 03:59 PM (ej1L0)

383 In my opinion John Mc Cain saw which way the wind was blowing and the worm was turning and towards the end of his campaign in 2008 decided he didn't want to be the turd in the punch bowl who denied the nation the Historical First Black President.
Mitt Romney wanted the job, but he was told to pull his punches after he knocked Obama down in the first debate--and so he lost.
Trump is going for the jugular at every turn--he wants this job.
So we haven't seen a "Republican" nominee fight so hard to be president in at least two election cycles. Yes he's coarse and ham-fisted--using a blunderbuss when when a rapier will do--but he he smashing golden idol sacred cows at every turn simply by mentioning the unmentionables.
He may lose; maybe huuugely.
But so did the last two nominees.
But he might win. So bring the Glade into the booth, but vote for him...

Posted by: JoeF. at May 26, 2016 04:00 PM (SvkdM)

384 Old and busted: Burn it down
New hotness: #nevertrump

What utter, illogical dishonesty.

Posted by: Marcus T at May 26, 2016 04:00 PM (O0lVq)

385 366 Hillary annoys me.
Trump scares me.
Posted by: Spoonman at May 26, 2016 03:56 PM (PcHwJ)


---------------

You scare me.

Posted by: Soona at May 26, 2016 04:00 PM (Fmupd)

386 Why not try to co-opt the Libertarian Party the way Trump has co-opted the GOP?

Trump already rejected this strategy wrt: the Reform Party.
You'd need a national TV celebrity with amazing persuasion skills - and big hair.

Posted by: DaveA at May 26, 2016 04:00 PM (DL2i+)

387 Really when did they say "shot" I didn't get that. Maybe you could pull a quote for me where they actually explicitly say something about killing him.
Posted by: MikeTheMoose at May 26, 2016 03:46 PM (0q2P7)



This is the audio - http://bit.ly/1TLW1nF


This is the full quote and holy hell I'm so about to go in the Barrel:

This is Brad Thor talking:

"I am about to suggest something very bad. It is a hypothetical I am going to ask as a thriller writer.

With the feckless, spineless Congress we have, who will stand in the way of Donald Trump overstepping his constitutional authority as President? If Congress won't remove him from office, what patriot will step up and do that if, if, he oversteps his mandate as president, his constitution-mandated authority as president, I should say.

If he overstepts that, how do we get him out of office? And I don't think there is a legal means available. I think it will be a terrible, terrible position the American people will be in to get Trump out of office, because you won't be able to do it through Congress."

Now, did Thor say the words shot or assassinate?

No.

But come the fuck on. "I am about to suggest something very bad. It is a hypothetical I am going to ask as a thriller writer."

There is no reasonable way to interpret that as anything other than calling for Trump's assassination. Something very bad. As a thriller writer. What patriot will step up and do that.

Come. The. Fuck. On. He was full out troublesome priesting it.

Pretending Thor wasn't calling for violence against Trump is willful blindness.

Posted by: alexthechick - serpentining for my sanity at May 26, 2016 04:00 PM (mf5HN)

388 Vote whatever you feel ...

... because we ain't voting our way out of the coming shit storm no matter what.

Posted by: ScoggDog at May 26, 2016 04:00 PM (Z+1Ng)

389 The American people have extra-legally removed several Presidents from office in a "terrible way" in her history.

They were all shot.

Wait MY mistake....

Brad Thor was discussing the American people tickle torturing Trump and then giving him a Saturn V rocket Booster Suppository and launching him the fuck home to OOMPA-LOOMPA....


Posted by: sven10077 at May 26, 2016 04:01 PM (g8Hfr)

390 Really, you'd think people who believed in competition would be better at it than this...

Posted by: Brother Cavil at May 26, 2016 04:01 PM (9krrF)

391 "If you don't fight first and foremost for liberty, what does it matter whether you have national boundaries or not? "

The founders founded a COUNTRY with borders for our freedom, liberty, rights, and responsibilities.

Look it up some time.








Posted by: The Demise Of Trump Brigade at May 26, 2016 04:01 PM (G0vb2)

392 I reject the transactional voting / support model. To accept it is essentially to say the candidate's qualities are irrelevant. I would have to say, if he shoots down a 5 year old and his puppy in the street, I'll still vote for him, because I might get better policy from him than Hillary. No. I'm not voting for someone who isn't worthy of the office. If the Republican and Democrat parties can't nominate someone who fits the bill, I choose (c). D.GOOCH

Posted by: GOOCH at May 26, 2016 04:01 PM (cxLzw)

393 373 Hillary annoys me.
Trump scares me.

Posted by: Spoonman at May 26, 2016 03:56 PM (PcHwJ)

Then you're backwards, IMHO.
-------------------------------------------

I thought this argument ran out of gas in the morning retread of the ONT. It seemed to me then that we definitively agreed Hillary is evil to her core and President Orange is merely a superficial opportunist, but not evil.

Posted by: MTF at May 26, 2016 04:01 PM (/m8T6)

394 >>>look at his list of Supreme Court nominees

That's a sales pitch. Not a set of nominees. It's called an "assurance" in game theory. There is no commitment. He's both ruthless and a pro at game theory and quite frankly proud of it. I have to assume that list means pretty much nothing.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose at May 26, 2016 04:01 PM (0q2P7)

395 >>>376 The Never Trumpers who feel the need to loudly proclaim, on a daily basis, that they will never ever vote for Trump, remind me of vegans. We get it, you can stfu now.
Posted by: Real joe at May 26, 2016 03:58 PM (2gGwJ)>>>

I'd say that they're more like the breastfeeding cultists. Even if you're sort of supportive of their position, you find them extremely annoying.

Posted by: gm at May 26, 2016 04:02 PM (4ueYo)

396 321
Radically pro-abortion... check

pro-gun control (see Trump's 2012 tweets)... check

pro-single payer health care and individual mandate... check

pro-amnesty (with or without touchback)... check

mean, nasty, characterless individuals prone to the politics of personal destruction... check, check, check



Now tell me again why I should care who of those two gets elected?

Posted by: redbanzai at May 26, 2016 03:47 PM (3JA/M)



He's also to the left of Hillary on trade and (in terms of the last several decades) international relations.

Posted by: person at May 26, 2016 03:49 PM (mFkVC)

Aaand....Trump campaign manager paul manafort "Hes going to soften some more on his muslim ban"
It'll be the same with the "wall".

Suckers.

Posted by: Mimzey at May 26, 2016 04:02 PM (aRUb8)

397 >>I have to laugh at people who think Trump will do anything different.
Posted by: gm at May 26, 2016 03:59 PM (4ueYo)<<

Or perhaps people who have no logical basis to believe he will do a great deal of what he actually has stated.

Yes, of course. Trump is Obama, only worse or something....right.

Posted by: Marcus T at May 26, 2016 04:02 PM (O0lVq)

398 Mr. Kristol is exactly what is wrong and has gone wrong with conservatism. He needs to come down from his Ivory Tower some time and rub elbows with the great unwashed.

Posted by: Hairyback Guy at May 26, 2016 03:59 PM (ej1L0)


What they fail to realize is, they're ALL Beltway Elites and have no fucking clue what it's like for Americans ever day.

They're all just so goddamn smart and we MUST listen with bated breath on their every thought.

Posted by: Sponge at May 26, 2016 04:02 PM (xttKs)

399 Willowed I see. I moved that last post to the new thread

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at May 26, 2016 04:02 PM (vvmPQ)

400 387 Posted by: alexthechick - serpentining for my sanity at May 26, 2016 04:00 PM (mf5HN)

Correct...

I got a 500 error trying to paste the transcript...

The "American people" have extra-legally removed several Presidents....

all shot....

Brad Thor was not discussing sending El Comandante Trump to Superman's Phantom Zone

Posted by: sven10077 at May 26, 2016 04:02 PM (g8Hfr)

401 392, you want Gooch, but you'll get Hillary--and her hootch and Huma's hoo-ha too....

Posted by: JoeF. at May 26, 2016 04:02 PM (SvkdM)

402 You virtue signaling #nevertrumpers are a full blown clown show. Best bet right now is that Trump will be a second Reagan, but for these times, not the times Reagan had to deal with. Unlike Reagan, who was tasked to win the Cold War but left Fed Government bigger than when it took over, the Fed Government will be smaller by the time Trump leaves, and the economy on the mend.

The business of America, is business. Trump will show you all why that is a truism. Just watch.
Posted by: mycherrysamores at May 26, 2016 03:51 PM (k1Zq7)

Wow. I don't know where you get the idea that big government Trump will shrink the size of government. Honestly, I believe for a lot of people, Trump is their very own 2008 Obama, an inspirational figure on whom to pin all their hopes and dreams.

Posted by: chique d'afrique, former Republican at May 26, 2016 04:02 PM (uz/Pv)

403 "And it did fail. Let me propose, to the stunned silence of the crowd, that maybe conservatism is not at the moment an electorally-winning set of policies, and needs some fine-tuning and even some general rethinking."

That's the thing, Ace. Conservatism wins at the polls, if one <i>actually has a record of conservatism to run on</i>. The current crop of establishment leadership has proven, time and time again, that they are <i>not conservative</i>, because they refuse to fight, even when they are assured of winning due to the weakness of the opposition. They have refused to fight for 20 years. Democrats know it, and the base knows it, and the base is not having it any more.
Trump is proving that the opposition has the staying power of a paper tiger, and even less of a bite, and if the damned Republicans had stood for their principles when they had the chance Trump would not be necessary.

Posted by: Mark Dietzler at May 26, 2016 04:02 PM (GHc0c)

404 So just stick to posturing to impress liberal friends.
Posted by: 0302 at May 26, 2016 03:49 PM (wx6iv)

That's a smear on conservatives who don't want to get on the Trump train because he's not conservative enough and his character is disgusting. Yes, some RINOs are trying to impress liberal friends at cocktail parties, but the ones I know in meatspace and online don't give a shit what liberals think of us, or else we wouldn't be conservatives.

Posted by: stace at May 26, 2016 04:02 PM (ozZau)

405 The "intellectual" assholes (Cooke, Murray et al.) are all butthurt because they were too damned stupid to see the Trump train was gonna roll over all opponents.

If those dumb fucks were record producers they would have turned down The Beatles and pimped Milli Vanilli.

Posted by: Ed Anger at May 26, 2016 04:03 PM (RcpcZ)

406 >>>384 Old and busted: Burn it down
New hotness: #nevertrump

What utter, illogical dishonesty.
Posted by: Marcus T at May 26, 2016 04:00 PM (O0lVq)>>>

Not really. Supporting Hillary is certainly supporting burning it down, eh?

Posted by: gm at May 26, 2016 04:03 PM (4ueYo)

407 And I don't get how you can look at this election and say that the Libertarian can't win. So we're at an impasse.

Posted by: Y-not (@moxiemom) at May 26, 2016 03:22 PM (t5zYU)


Libertarians couldn't organize a two-man rush on a three-hole shitter.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at May 26, 2016 04:03 PM (zKSco)

408
I thought this argument ran out of gas in the morning retread of the ONT. It seemed to me then that we definitively agreed Hillary is evil to her core and President Orange is merely a superficial opportunist, but not evil.

Posted by: MTF at May 26, 2016 04:01 PM (/m8T6)



I wasn't in the comments for the ONT this morning, so I missed out, apparently.

Posted by: Sponge at May 26, 2016 04:03 PM (xttKs)

409
There is no reasonable way to interpret that as anything other than calling for Trump's assassination. Something very bad. As a thriller writer. What patriot will step up and do that.


Clearly, he went too far, but he did qualify it as if Trump was in office and abused power, went too far etc. Not just "will someone not rid me of this troublesome Trump?" but: will someone end him if he turns into what I fear?

I suspect many if not most of us have not wondered that about other politicians.

I think he's being a fool about Trump, and I think he shouldn't talk like that. But its not as outrageous as it was presented.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at May 26, 2016 04:04 PM (39g3+)

410 Really, you'd think people who believed in competition would be better at it than this...

Posted by: Brother Cavil at May 26, 2016 04:01 PM (9krrF)


They are terrible at sales. It's sad, very sad.

Posted by: *Mikey NTH - Lighter Fluid, Charcoal, and Othe Car-Be-Cue Supplies at the Outrage Outlet at May 26, 2016 04:04 PM (hLRSq)

411 Hey, Ace, when you talk about this as an ego thing for NeverTrumpers, is it really a bad thing to have your ego invested in adherence to principal? Well before this primary I've certainly seen you talk about your refusal to carry water for the more outlandish and hacky claims of the right that people want you to push, out of a matter of ego, and it's one of the things I love about you. I assumed my entire life as a politics junkie that conservatism's foundation was rigid adherence to principal.

A lot of us are still reeling from the Trump victory, and there's been a ton of new information we're having to deal with about our political movement that we're still taking in. I suppose it's useful, even if most of us preferred ignorant bliss. As someone who tends to waver between elitism and anti-elitism, I absolutely think an elitist argument should be part of the current debate within the party. This stuff is certainly no more insane than what pro-Trump sites like Breitbart are pushing, and I think at the very least those of us who lost this primary in the most excruciating way imaginable should at least be forgiven the catharsis of working through it in our own way. And is anti-populism necessarily elitism? Charles Murray's whole shtick for the last several years has been pushing to mainstream attention the cause of poor, under-educated whites who we're assuming (I think wrongly) are the driving force of Trump's primary success. He wrote a book about it.

Also, Ace, didn't you quite the party like a year or two ago? Why is party unity something you even care about?

Posted by: reform highlander at May 26, 2016 04:04 PM (jCH/T)

412 340 Ace, I don't know if you saw or not, but Caleb Howe posted a blog piece last night that basically accused you of being a paid Trump shill. That little fuck
Posted by: Freedom Sauce at May 26, 2016 03:52 PM (BcQC4)

=============
Cool! You mean Ace is getting that sweet sweet Trump gold? That's YUGE! Maybe he will use it to throw us a kegger?

Posted by: Bruce With a Wang! at May 26, 2016 04:04 PM (iQIUe)

413
Come. The. Fuck. On. He was full out troublesome priesting it.

Pretending Thor wasn't calling for violence against Trump is willful blindness.


Posted by: alexthechick - serpentining for my sanity at May 26, 2016 04:00 PM (mf5HN)
--------------------------------------------------------

Wow-- there's no wiggle-room there. You nailed it Alex.


*sheepishly wonders who among us have not had similar thoughts about a SCOTUS Justice or two*

*or semi-retired President*

Posted by: MTF at May 26, 2016 04:04 PM (/m8T6)

414 I don't know why everyone keeps saying conservative policies are dead, or that those who support Trump are not "conservatives"...

A huge chunk of Trump supporters are actually VERY conservative, just not in a traditional bible-belt religious sense... I'm someone who is both strongly conservative AND a Christian, and I honestly don't care about Trump's social positions.

He may end up being a disaster as a President, but at least he's FIGHTING THE OPPOSITION!!!!!

If there was any other "more conservative" candidate sticking it to the other side the same way Trump is, I would support them in a heartbeat... But they can't and they won't and they're not...

Trump is the only one who realizes the paradigm is broken and is not allowing the left to control him or the narrative. That alone makes me think he just might be able to handle the job.

Posted by: I Smell Something Rotten at May 26, 2016 04:04 PM (ctO3Z)

415 "This is the problem with all the political types-they have contempt for the people they are trying to woo as voters, whether it's blacks and hispanics for Dems, or worwking class middle class for the Repubs. We aren't inside the Beltway, living in McLean, Arlington Potomac or Bethesda, or Georgetown, so what we think or believe really doesn't matter. "
----------
^^^
This

Posted by: WTP at May 26, 2016 04:04 PM (XiVKO)

416 we definitively agreed Hillary is evil to her core and President Orange is merely a superficial opportunist, but not evil.

This is probably the best possible presentation of the facts. Hillary is the kind of evil you only see in movies in people who literally worship Satan.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at May 26, 2016 04:05 PM (39g3+)

417


At the Risk of Poking the Hornet's Nest... I would also call
for what I've been calling for for two years: A little introspection
from people who have lost the public's trust as to why they lost the
public's trust, instead of retreating to the comfortable but
counterproductive Obama-like position of "We're too good for them" or
"Our pearls are lost before such swine" and "We only failed in our
messaging in explaining how wonderful we are."


There's a reason the "conservative movement," such as it is, failed.


And it did fail. Let me propose, to the stunned silence of the crowd, that maybe conservatism is not at the moment an electorally-winning set of policies, and needs some fine-tuning and even some general rethinking.


It would be a useful inquiry to discover why that occurred, instead
of just saying, as liberals do, "Republicans are stupid, racist, and
afraid of The Other."


----------------
Just for the record, I'm not on Team Hillary -- I'll never cast a vote in favor of that felonious shrew. And I agree that there is a disconnect between standard issue GOP "Thought Leaders" (gods, I hate that term) and the rank and file.

My real issue and problem is that both the RNC leaders and the people are both wrong. The people are suffering from a massive case of normalcy bias -- they assume that the "American Dream" must mean what it meant to their parents. They are upset and angry that their standard of living is in decline. That was not supposed to happen to them -- they were supposed to have even more than their parents. And their kids were supposed to do even better than that.
That's straight up normalcy bias. Things can get better -- they also can get worse. They rarely stay the same.
There is a real impulse among people generally to prefer stability. Many people do not like risks. They don't do well in changing conditions and cannot handle chaos. They try to lead their lives with ordered plans in mind incorporating baseline scenarios that exclude what they consider to be aberrant or non-normal contingencies. They are risk averse.
For decades, America's great strength and prosperity inculcated this idea that things just get better -- each generation will be better off. Things that happen overseas won't happen here, etc. But now that America is in decline, the veneer on that promise is starting to wear thin as the rot sets in.

Kids see it with immense student loans and their inability to start a family or become fully adults. Older people see it with retirement funds that are insufficient to fund what they hoped would be their golden years. Blue collar workers see it with jobs that are going overseas. White collar workers see it by being forced to be on call 24/7 and work long hours just to keep pace.
The people are angry. Their assumed sense of "normal" is wrong, and they haven't factored in the possibility that the future may be smaller than the present.
The pro-Trump faction of the GOP is the avatar of this thinking, by and large. They want things returned to a 1950s-60s vision where there are no illegal immigrants, wages are rising, their children can look forward to even more prosperity and the USA confidently interjects itself onto the world stage.
The RNC elite know that this is not possible. The budget problems are getting worse, not better. The world still has not gotten out of the debt crisis. The RNC looks at the future and see one where the white share of the population will continue to decline (especially as the baby boomers retire), the Hispanic share will continue to rise, and the people will continue to accept (or even demand) increased government intervention into the economy.
They are wrong too -- those solutions will not set us right. We desperate need an energetic reform that gets the government out of our lives, reduces (whether by bounds or in increments) the government's role as a pension plan, and that encourages people to take risks again by letting people keep the rewards.
Conservativism "failed" in the sense that people will choose any phantasm that continues the lulling siren song of their normalcy bias. For all of its faults Conservativism provided some avenue of reform away from these problems (such as through entitlement reform, continued promotion of free trade, etc). People don't want to hear that.
That doesn't make the people "right" either. It just means that the country's problems will not be fixed and the decline (and anger) will continue, no matter who is elected.

Posted by: Revenant at May 26, 2016 04:05 PM (y64uP)

418
To EVERYONE claiming how bad Trump is that they could never vote for
him: look at his list of Supreme Court nominees. If everything else he
does is as bad as it could be, at least his SC nominations will set the
stage for a near future recovery of conservative values. Give the
presidency to Hillary, and you've fucked conservative ideals for at
least 20 years. So stop weighing this election as a vote for turd A or
turd B. Consider this election as your chance to shape the future of the
Supreme Court. Do you want a progressive/activist supreme court, or a
constitutional/conservative supreme court?


Posted by: pete at May 26, 2016 03:56 PM (meg+g)

You mean the list written by others that he almost immediately started walking back?

That list?

Yes, that list was great... and just about representative of Trump's actual views as Jeff Sessions' position paper that called for a freeze on H1B visas.

Posted by: redbanzai at May 26, 2016 04:05 PM (3JA/M)

419 >>>Or perhaps people who have no logical basis to believe he will do a great deal of what he actually has stated.

Yes, of course. Trump is Obama, only worse or something....right.
Posted by: Marcus T at May 26, 2016 04:02 PM (O0lVq)>>>

LOL. What GOP pol ever does what he says? And, if what a GOP pol says contradicts what his history shows, it is almost universal that what the GOP pol is saying is a lie.

And, yeah, nice strawman you got there. Want a torch?

Posted by: gm at May 26, 2016 04:06 PM (4ueYo)

420 348 >>>If you want to behave and moralize the way Thor does you should really avoid plagiarism.
Posted by: Christi at May 26, 2016 03:52 PM (IvmKU)>>>

What if you want to behave and moralize like a Democrat VP?
Posted by: gm at May 26, 2016 03:53 PM (4ueYo)

You're right. We should all work harder in our lives to be more like Biden.
Maybe he can start telling us Trump will start putting all the #NeverTrumpers in chains.
Hmmm... Maybe Trump should promise that, sounds good for a poll bump and it would take the crease right out of George Wills pants.

Posted by: Christi at May 26, 2016 04:06 PM (IvmKU)

421 "The Never Trumpers who feel the need to loudly proclaim, on a daily basis, that they will never ever vote for Trump, remind me of vegans. We get it, you can stfu now."

Yeah. They are all quite self-involved little snowflakes.

Posted by: The Demise Of Trump Brigade at May 26, 2016 04:06 PM (G0vb2)

422 @332 ... If you don't fight first and foremost for liberty, what does it matter whether you have national boundaries or not?

...
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at May 26, 2016 03:51 PM (39g3+)"


You're unlikely to have liberty without a country. Obviously.

Have you ever heard of a people having liberty while ruled by somebody else? Maybe, if the ruling party values liberty, but how often has THAT ever happened, aside from when the country we're talking about was involved?

Posted by: Optimizer at May 26, 2016 04:06 PM (jPHi7)

423 Good post Ace.

My objection to yesterdays commentary was your - uncharacteristically - shallow description of the motives for someone refusing to vote for Trump. My personal opinion is that the next candidate is going to come into office with low approval ratings and only get worse from there and will likely destroy their party's electoral chances at least in the short term. Better them than us. And I do believe Donald Trump will absolutely DEVASTATE any political viability the right has left.

A vote for Trump (if he wins) will hand the Democrats two victories: one, they'll bet getting the most liberal republican possible. Two, they'll be getting a crass, vulgar, egomaniac who will be the perfect charicature with which they'll tar conservatism and the GOP for at least a decade. Tails they win, heads we lose. I'd rather see the electorate get four years of an absolute lying criminal psychopathic unlikeable bitch. Maybe THEN they'll get over this stupid fascination with liberalism.

I'm not under any obligation to support the candidate of a party whose leadership hates my guts... is embarrassed to have my allegiance. And I'm under no obligation to vote for a crass, ultra-wealthy, liberal new yorker just because he has an (R) next to his name.

If I believed ONE WORD that comes out of Donald Trump's mouth about immigration, or guns, or taxes, or anything else, I'd vote for him. But he's lying. So I'll vote for Hillary (the Devil I know) or Gary Johnson.

Posted by: Sam In VA at May 26, 2016 04:06 PM (bNi5D)

424
I wasn't in the comments for the ONT this morning, so I missed out, apparently.

Posted by: Sponge at May 26, 2016 04:03 PM (xttKs)
---------------------------------------------

Heh. I don't doubt for a moment we will have this exact fight around here right up until Trump actually stands revealed (and hopefully not reviled).

Posted by: MTF at May 26, 2016 04:07 PM (/m8T6)

425 @421 "The Never Trumpers who feel the need to loudly proclaim, on a daily basis, that they will never ever vote for Trump, remind me of vegans. We get it, you can stfu now."

Yeah. They are all quite self-involved little snowflakes.

Posted by: The Demise Of Trump Brigade at May 26, 2016 04:06 PM (G0vb2)


Drama queens, really. Maybe if they start to get ingored, they'll calm themselves down.

Posted by: Optimizer at May 26, 2016 04:07 PM (jPHi7)

426 It is shocking to me how bad the GOP is at sales. They don't even put the slightest effort into renovating their public image, they don't even try to hire a bunch of PR guys to fix things up between elections. Not a dime.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at May 26, 2016 04:08 PM (39g3+)

427 413 Posted by: MTF at May 26, 2016 04:04 PM (/m8T6)

It is at best a sophisticated version of "I hope Justice Thomas eats a lot of butter" gambit...

at worst it is precisely what it sounded like and read as.

Americans *have* extra-legally removed Presidents....always with a gun.

Posted by: sven10077 at May 26, 2016 04:09 PM (g8Hfr)

428 We've witnessed it where illegals have more rights than citizen do.

Posted by: The Demise Of Trump Brigade at May 26, 2016 03:47 PM (G0vb2)


Illegals have better medical benefits than veterans have in the VA and a combined welfare benefit better than currently serving active duty enlisted.

Has Obama made this a great country or what!

Posted by: Hrothgar says 'BTW F@#k Cancer!' at May 26, 2016 04:09 PM (wYnyS)

429 >>>There is no reasonable way to interpret that as anything other than calling for Trump's assassination.

You could reasonably interpret it as forcibly removed from office. And what that would entail would make excellent thriller writer content. No assassination needed.

I'm going to move on with the conclusion this accusation is bunch of invented bunk if that's the best you have.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose at May 26, 2016 04:09 PM (0q2P7)

430 > Brad Thor is wishing a Patriot would remove a troublesome Trump who can't be impeached via bullet....

and yet, how many conservatives would SQUEAL if Mr.Speaking Hypothetically was running for President.

Somehow, HIS rhetoric isn't dangerous because he isn't running for "anything".

hmm, maybe he is, someday, that or writing another political thriller!
Why else share his "hypothetical plot" with, Beck, of all people?

Posted by: cind at May 26, 2016 04:09 PM (nRbbW)

431 Libertarians couldn't organize a two-man rush on a three-hole shitter.
Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at May 26, 2016 04:03 PM (zKSco)

Yup....I joined the Libshit Party many moons ago. I sent them a check, they sent me a really nice membership card and a really nice letter. After that, nothing. No candidates to look out for and support, no policy statements or info, nothing, nada, zilch. It's like a bunch of stoner retards all sitting around saying what they are gonna do but they couldn't find an their assholes with a map and compass.

Posted by: Hairyback Guy at May 26, 2016 04:10 PM (ej1L0)

432 Anybody here interested in running for president? I already did, even though my heart wasn't really in it.

Posted by: Mitt Romney at May 26, 2016 04:10 PM (LYCUN)

433 A real, productive debate about this would involve debating whether Hillary Clinton or Trump would be worse.

If it's possible to do that civilly, awesome. The odds of that happening are low.

I have no qualms with people who merely expressed a dislike for him jumping on board. Most anti-Trump people expressed something a lot stronger than that--to the point where Hillary vs. Trump would not be an easy decision.

Posted by: AD at May 26, 2016 04:10 PM (tHoFk)

434 >>>426 It is shocking to me how bad the GOP is at sales. They don't even put the slightest effort into renovating their public image, they don't even try to hire a bunch of PR guys to fix things up between elections. Not a dime.
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at May 26, 2016 04:08 PM (39g3+)>>>

It makes sense if they're just the Washington Generals.

Posted by: gm at May 26, 2016 04:11 PM (4ueYo)

435
Trump is an authoritarian


Honestly,where does that come from? can you give us some examples?

Posted by: Flawless Male Logic at May 26, 2016 04:11 PM (lKyWE)

436 429 Posted by: MikeTheMoose at May 26, 2016 04:09 PM (0q2P7)

Right so wait....


a crack commando team of Shriners places him into a clown car and he vanishes into thin air?

*right*

Posted by: sven10077 at May 26, 2016 04:11 PM (g8Hfr)

437 >>I guess this is why Trump, who at least pretends to care about the
average voter, and Bernie, who looks and acts average, are stirring up
such visceral support.



Yep.

I don't know if we can count on Trump to follow-through, but he really tapped into the opinions/values of a lot of people who have been characterized as knuckle-dragging racists/bigots/homophobes/Islamaphobes/whatevers by pretty much everyone in politics and the MSM with his embrace of enforcing immigration laws. That alone had an incredible effect on the race, and I was so disappointed that none of the other candidates could swoop in and run with that.

Posted by: Lizzy at May 26, 2016 04:11 PM (NOIQH)

438 Have you ever heard of a people having liberty while ruled by somebody else?

Everyone is governed by someone else. I don't live in Illinois, Lincoln does. Almost everyone in government comes from a different part of the country than I do. The question is how much liberty you have under that government, not where they come from.

Liberty is the bottom line, period. That's where you start from. If you lose track of that foundational thing, you lose it all, nationalist or globalist.

ou mean the list written by others that he almost immediately started walking back?

All politicians have dudes who handle that stuff for them. Trump isn't unique in that; but it does say something that he has people like that making the list. Nobody sane thinks Trump's SC choices will be worse than Hillary's. Will they be good? I'd be shocked if they were. But they won't be as deliberately awful and incredibly radical leftist as Hillary's.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at May 26, 2016 04:11 PM (39g3+)

439 I blame the GOPe for all of this. These so-called "conservatives" that are saying they'll vote for the Hildebeast is really the reason the brand is being redefined. This has been a very long march through the conservative movement and the results have been just as destructive as the long march of the leftist through the other American institutions.

Posted by: Soona at May 26, 2016 04:12 PM (Fmupd)

440 Maybe he will use it to throw us a kegger?

Posted by: Bruce With a Wang! at May 26, 2016 04:04 PM (iQIUe)
----------------------------------------------

We could really use a kegger. Blow out the petty bullshit shotgunning beers and listening to good music. Complete with trap lessons for the kids and free ace of spades tattoos over in the lunchroom.

In Peruvia, beyond the reach of ATF.

Posted by: MTF at May 26, 2016 04:12 PM (/m8T6)

441 >>>The Never Trumpers who feel the need to loudly proclaim, on a daily basis, that they will never ever vote for Trump, remind me of vegans. We get it, you can stfu now.

Well you Trumpers remind me crossfitters. It's not enough that you tell me everyday that YOU do cross fit. You have to tell me every day that I SHOULD do cross fit.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose at May 26, 2016 04:12 PM (0q2P7)

442 Actually, I'm very encouraged by this...

It appears that with Trump, we are going to pick up millions of stupid voters who will choose due to celebrity or believe Trump will bring back their coal mining job.

On the other hand, we will lose a relative handful of stupid voters who think that there is no difference between the criminal Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump.

As a dealmaker, I'll take this any day.

Posted by: jwest at May 26, 2016 04:12 PM (Zs4uk)

443 You mean the list written by others that he almost immediately started walking back?

That list?

Yes, that list was great... and just about representative of Trump's actual views as Jeff Sessions' position paper that called for a freeze on H1B visas.
Posted by: redbanzai at May 26, 2016 04:05 PM (3JA/M)

Which SC consideration on the list is Trump walking back? I heard him personally two weeks ago double down on it, explaining that it was formulated with the assistance of the Heritage Foundation and the Federalist Society and that their may be additional people added to it.

Posted by: Jen the original at May 26, 2016 04:13 PM (Smc8E)

444 It is shocking to me how bad the GOP is at sales. They don't even put the slightest effort into renovating their public image, they don't even try to hire a bunch of PR guys to fix things up between elections. Not a dime.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at May 26, 2016 04:08 PM (39g3+)


The GOPe is not bad at sales, they just don't give a crap, because they know they are essentially in office for life and the combined graft distribution network run by the DC Cartel will keep them in gated communities for life, safe from dealing with or actually representing the population!

Posted by: Hrothgar says 'BTW F@#k Cancer!' at May 26, 2016 04:13 PM (wYnyS)

445 >>>Right so wait....


>>>a crack commando team of Shriners places him into a clown car and he vanishes into thin air?


Deposing dictators often happens without them getting shot. Look it up.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose at May 26, 2016 04:14 PM (0q2P7)

446 There is no Universe in which Hillary Clinton is a better choice than Trump.

It's been a long time but aren't there 13 cantos?

Posted by: DaveA at May 26, 2016 04:14 PM (DL2i+)

447 Trump is an authoritarian


Honestly,where does that come from? can you give us some examples?
Posted by: Flawless Male Logic at May 26, 2016 04:11 PM (lKyWE)

From people who have never had to supervise others or accomplish a project on a deadline.

Posted by: Jen the original at May 26, 2016 04:14 PM (Smc8E)

448 Conservatism, most broadly defined, hasn't failed. I'll grant that in an era where billiionaires pay 12% tax rates at one end, while half the country at the other end pays nothing, and the folks in the middle pay 24-45% of their income in taxes, then "tax cuts" aren't a winning issue.

After Bush's Iraq stupidity (the tactics, if not the strategy) a hawkish defense policy probably isn't going to sell.

But if you took a candidate who could explain freedom, and markets, and opportunity, and local control the way Bill Whittle does, conservatives would go back to being the ideological majority. Instead, our national figure-heads tell our primary voters how "severely conservative they are" and then run from it when the cameras are turned on.

No wonder the public isn't ready to buy into conservatism when they believe (falsely) that it means aimless wars, tax cuts for the ultra-wealthy, and a hatred for America's poor.

With that said, it's not so much conservatives who need a couple years worth of introspection. (we do, but let's face it... conservatives haven't been seen governing since arguably Newt Gingrich was speaker.) It's the GOP and it's leadership, it's donors, and its consultants who need to do the reassessments and the "mea culpas."

Posted by: Sam In VA at May 26, 2016 04:14 PM (bNi5D)

449 "This is the problem with all the political types-they have contempt for the people they are trying to woo as voters, whether it's blacks and hispanics for Dems, or worwking class middle class for the Repubs. We aren't inside the Beltway, living in McLean, Arlington Potomac or Bethesda, or Georgetown, so what we think or believe really doesn't matter. "


------------------------

There is that cartoon of the Yuge pig stuffing his face -labeled politician- next to an emaciated, starving man - labeled taxpayer - with the pig telling the starving man that he's just going to have to tighten his belt a little.

For all the caterwauling, hysterical theatrics, sore losers, fatcat politicians and pundits the American taxpayer is raging angry.

Posted by: The Demise Of Trump Brigade at May 26, 2016 04:15 PM (G0vb2)

450 It makes sense if they're just the Washington Generals.

Truthfully... that's the only way it makes sense.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at May 26, 2016 04:16 PM (39g3+)

451 445 Posted by: MikeTheMoose at May 26, 2016 04:14 PM (0q2P7)

and that is "terrible?"

Look you and he win...Secret Service would not find it actionable in all likleihood because of his semantic games....

I am not impressed by his semantic games.

Posted by: sven10077 at May 26, 2016 04:17 PM (g8Hfr)

452 443 Posted by: Jen the original at May 26, 2016 04:13 PM (Smc8E
-----------------------------------

C'mon Jen, he said that very afternoon the list was "representative" of the "types" of judges he would appoint. That was pretty starkly a walk-back.

Posted by: MTF at May 26, 2016 04:18 PM (/m8T6)

453 and Mike...

No American President has ever been remove Extra-Legally without a bullet.

What I just typed is as valid as my acknowledging Thor's Weasel-Fu is strong.

Posted by: sven10077 at May 26, 2016 04:18 PM (g8Hfr)

454 >>>From people who have never had to supervise others or accomplish a project on a deadline.

Right every single person. Every last one. Whom says Trump is Authoritarian has never held a supervision position or had to accomplish a project by a deadline. If you'd like to know why you continually reap division, maybe, just maybe, it's because you keep sowing it. Ever think about that?

Posted by: MikeTheMoose at May 26, 2016 04:19 PM (0q2P7)

455 It's been a long time but aren't there 13 cantos?


Posted by: DaveA at May 26, 2016 04:14 PM (DL2i+)
-----------------------------------------------

BOOM!

Posted by: Dante Alighieri, Chef To The Stars at May 26, 2016 04:20 PM (/m8T6)

456 don't see an upside to a Trump Presidency in that it will be a real shock to American politics.

Maybe somebody will get a suplex.

Posted by: DaveA at May 26, 2016 04:21 PM (DL2i+)

457 I'd like to offer some things that I think we can all agree on, then proceed from there:

1. No one is going to deal with entitlements. Period. If we waved a magic wand and made every other issue on earth disappear other than entitlements, the result is the country is PRESENTLY in debt far beyond what it can sustain, even if we taxed 100% of earning for all of the top companies in the U.S. When (not if, when) this collapses, we take the global economy with us.

2. No one is going to repeal Obamacare. At best, it will be relabeled and expanded. Whoever is sitting in the driver's seat will call it a replacement. This will compound point one.

3. The past 12 years of foreign policy have resulted in utter chaos. The world has never been less safe by any measure. Our military hasn't been this weak since before Reagan and, arguably, before WWII. Worse, policies over the past 7 years have focused on making the military into a SJW/ LGBT/ Women/ Minority jobs program and "fairness" than anything resembling national defense. Our fleets and assets of everything across the board our grossly outdated and decaying. In short, WHEN these problems erupt, we have no effective way of dealing with it or defending ourselves against even a single determined enemy with reasonable funding. We have no strong allies and they are making themselves weaker by the day.

4. Forget roads and bridges. Our entire future and infrastructure is dependent on Millennials and the next generations coming up. Look at the state of education from K- PhD. It's a joke. People are getting dumber by the day and our answer is to reduce standards to the lowest common denominator. If we got rid of the DOE , the unions, and fixed every other problem today across the board... we'd have to wait out 2 generations to see the results.

No one is going to fix these problems. For most of it, there really isn't a true solution, even if anyone was willing to implement a solution.

Even if you are his most ardent supporter, the truth is that Trump cannot and will not solve any of this. This is equally true of Hillary, Bernie... pick any name you like. There is no savior.

So I will offer a 3rd option. No, it is not a third party. The ONLY solution I see is essentially giving up on a government solution entirely. Let the fools elect whomever they like. The answer is, as it has been for a long time, whomever is the biggest celebrity and promises the most free stuff and/ or riles up the highest level go grievances.

For myself, I'm, saying fuck it all. I'm doing what I can to set my financial house in order and make sure my responsibilities are met in ways that are not contingent on any government or any third party whatsoever. I am getting mentally prepared for things to get bad... really bad.

Elect whomever you want. None of them are going to deal with anything that matters but it if makes you feel better and gives you some level of comfort, go ahead, pull the lever for whatever rabble rouser suits your fancy and makes you feel like you're getting what you want.

Posted by: Damiano at May 26, 2016 04:21 PM (71OEY)

458 220 How many folks yelling for people to line up behind Trump would have been #NeverJeb?

Posted by: person at May 26, 2016 03:34 PM (mFkVC)

Jeb! and Rubio were the two GOP candidates I could have never voted for.

Posted by: Donna and V. (sans ampersands at the present time) at May 26, 2016 04:22 PM (u0lmX)

459 You're a voice of reason, Ace.

Posted by: Fan Of Voice Of Reason at May 26, 2016 04:22 PM (XMXX5)

460 "Well you Trumpers remind me crossfitters. It's not enough that you tell me everyday that YOU do cross fit. You have to tell me every day that I SHOULD do cross fit. "

No, we want you to get out of our way at the gym and sulk at home while we carry on with the work that needs to be done in impeded by your sabotaging efforts.

Posted by: The Demise Of Trump Brigade at May 26, 2016 04:22 PM (aYRWr)

461 265
The thing is, Trump really doesn't seem to know basic US civics or care to learn them. When Rand Paul pressed him on a Constitutional point in a debate, he dodged. He routinely talks about a president's "reign." He frequently proposes things that would violate checks-and-balances or Federalism. He never, ever refers to the Constitution or the Founders in any meaningful way - or at all really.
Posted by: person at May 26, 2016 03:41 PM (mFkVC)

Yes, he always used the word REIGN when discussing JEB!
I wonder why?

Posted by: Christi at May 26, 2016 04:22 PM (IvmKU)

462 Murray's piece is good, and doesn't fall into the retarded "Trump is a liberal AND a fascist" tropes that a bunch of movement conservatives are stuck on, like Erickson.

Idk, these types of posts are fairly reasonable, but then you're trying to convince people that Bill Clinton is both a murderer and a rapist. Although by the ridiculous feminist parameters of today, the latter's probably true. But did you believe this shit in the 90s, cuz it comes off as just reverse-engineering the leftist "wrong politics = evil person" psychoanalysis crap.

Posted by: Observer at May 26, 2016 04:23 PM (amQdW)

463 435
Trump is an authoritarian


Honestly,where does that come from? can you give us some examples?
Posted by: Flawless Male Logic at May 26, 2016 04:11 PM (lKyWE)

His rolling over like a puppy when Putin praised him. He expressed support for the Chinese government's massacre of protesters at Tiananmen Square, because itt showed their "strength".

He expressed admiration for Kim Jong Un executing family members to consolidate power. That showed Kim's strength.

He's said several times that people shouldn't be "allowed" to say certain things.

I'm surprised that people can't see the old school Latin strongman in him. He even has the mannerisms and facial expressions down. He's never expressed any interest in liberty, but admires "strength", even in dictators.

I had to explain to someone the other day the difference between a strong man (good), and a strongman (bad). Trump is number 2.

Posted by: stace at May 26, 2016 04:23 PM (ozZau)

464 Conservatism failed because it was NOT conservatism... It was statist globalism and big-corporatism and screw the individual. Conservatism for the last 20 years or so opposed the heavy hand of government interfering with companies by (gasp!) regulating them, but happy to expand the role of government in enforcing things corporate property rights and intellectual property rights in all instances.

Someone spend too much on credit cards and needs to declare bankruptcy? No way--the GOP (and the "conservatives") are going to make sure that can't happen. No reason banks should lose money just because they loaned to the wrong people!

Too many bad mortgages at high interest rates to lousy borrowers? Can;t have the bank owners lose their equity! Here's a trillion dollar bailout!

GE having trouble making money on light bulbs? Let's outlaw those cheap incandescence and only allow patented technologies to be sold.

Wait? Someone is downloading illegal music? We have to give the Record Industry the right to issue subpoenas and search warrants so they can extort settlements!

Wages for lower-paid workers going up? Hey, let us bring in many millions of illegals and special visa entries that will work for slave wages.

Fuck that "conservatism". Fuck the GOP.

Trump may be a buffoon and a hypocrite, but the message people are responding to is simple. A NATIONAL government should operate in the NATIONAL interests. That the government owes more to its citizens than to multinational corporations and mulinational interests.

Posted by: Kasper Hauser at May 26, 2016 04:23 PM (HqpV0)

465 You could reasonably interpret it as forcibly removed from office. And what that would entail would make excellent thriller writer content. No assassination needed.

I'm going to move on with the conclusion this accusation is bunch of invented bunk if that's the best you have.
Posted by: MikeTheMoose at May 26, 2016 04:09 PM (0q2P7)



The best I have is the actual audio clips and a word for word transcription. I didn't invent a single bit of it and I resent, deeply, your statement that I did. I gave you actual original sources.

So if you wish to say that you have a different interpretation, one which at best says that Thor was calling for a coup, then fine.

But do not for one moment say this was invented. Those were Brad Thor's actual words.

Posted by: alexthechick - serpentining for my sanity at May 26, 2016 04:23 PM (mf5HN)

466 387
"If Congress won't remove him from office, what patriot will step up and do that if, if, he oversteps his mandate as president, his constitution-mandated authority as president, I should say.

If he overstepts that, how do we get him out of office? And I don't think there is a legal means available. I think it will be a terrible, terrible position the American people will be in to get Trump out of office, because you won't be able to do it through Congress."
--Brad Thor


Interesting. I wonder if he has ever said anything similar about Obama, who has been overstepping his authority from Day 1?

Posted by: rickl at May 26, 2016 04:24 PM (zoehZ)

467 And it did fail. Let me propose, to the stunned silence of the crowd, that maybe conservatism is not at the moment an electorally-winning set of policies, and needs some fine-tuning and even some general rethinking.

As a conservative, i have to agree with the above. Its quite obvious now. The idea that federalism and small government is something that should be striven for is fairly obviously no longer desired by the mass of people voting republican these days.

Not only that, but most R voters who say the debt is an issue are thus outright lying, as one of Trump's largest positions is not to touch medicare or social security. So unless you think that it would be great to have no military spending, you are obviously in favor of significantly expanding debt outstanding in the not very distant future.

Also expect a significant increase in the scope of the government in the economy. I would expect most R's to vote to have the federal government take over healthcare completely and dissolve all the third party health insurers in the not too distant future. I hope everyone enjoys becoming medicaid recipients.

Posted by: JeffreyL at May 26, 2016 04:24 PM (mXv3y)

468
I have not been keeping up but you morons have not given me a heads up either. And for that I spank you.

In about an hour, there is another Space X launch.

Posted by: Bruce With a Wang! at May 26, 2016 04:24 PM (iQIUe)

469 A NATIONAL government should operate in the NATIONAL interests.
--------------------------------------------

Am I finally winning the argument? Ever hopeful...

Posted by: Alex Hamilton at May 26, 2016 04:25 PM (/m8T6)

470 "Right every single person. Every last one. Whom says Trump is Authoritarian has never held a supervision position or had to accomplish a project by a deadline. If you'd like to know why you continually reap division, maybe, just maybe, it's because you keep sowing it. Ever think about that? "

------------------
Did Trump steal your girlfriend or something?

It's over. Trump won.

Posted by: The Demise Of Trump Brigade at May 26, 2016 04:25 PM (aYRWr)

471
442 Actually, I'm very encouraged by this...

It appears that with Trump, we are going to pick up millions of stupid voters who will choose due to celebrity or believe Trump will bring back their coal mining job.

On the other hand, we will lose a relative handful of stupid voters who think that there is no difference between the criminal Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump.

As a dealmaker, I'll take this any day.


Very well put.

And I hope the door breaks their ass bones on their way out.

Posted by: Ed Anger at May 26, 2016 04:25 PM (RcpcZ)

472 The Brain of the World has been crushed by the Heart of Hell.

Posted by: BeckoningChasm at May 26, 2016 04:25 PM (j8Jx5)

473 >>>No American President has ever been remove Extra-Legally without a bullet.

The scenario wasn't removing an American President. It was removing an American Dictator. One that openly revoked the Constitution.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose at May 26, 2016 04:27 PM (0q2P7)

474 320 So what do ya'll think about Trump going after Gov Martinez? Is that an example of his party unification plan?
Posted by: stace at May 26, 2016 03:49 PM (ozZau)
------------------------------
I think it was politically stupid. Gratuitously, unbelievably stupid.

Here you have a candidate who is considered a misogynist and, worse yet, an anti-Hispanic, raaaaacist bigot. And he decides to attack a female, Hispanic governor. A GOP governor.

Posted by: Margarita DeVille at May 26, 2016 04:27 PM (T/5A0)

475 I'll show you on the doll where Trump touched me.

Posted by: Mitt Romney at May 26, 2016 04:27 PM (LYCUN)

476 >>>Did Trump steal your girlfriend or something?
It's over. Trump won.

Refer to comment 92.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose at May 26, 2016 04:29 PM (0q2P7)

477 443 Posted by: Jen the original at May 26, 2016 04:13 PM (Smc8E
-----------------------------------

C'mon Jen, he said that very afternoon the list was "representative" of the "types" of judges he would appoint. That was pretty starkly a walk-back.
Posted by: MTF at May 26, 2016 04:18 PM (/m8T6)

Here is the quote to Hannity. It is a conversational response, not an official press release or policy document.

"I thought what I would do is put this forward, and this would be the list that I would either choose from or pick people very close in terms of the spirit and the meaning of what they represent," Trump told host Sean Hannity.

Trump said he wants people with "high intellect" and who are pro-life.

The presumptive GOP nominee said he knows some of his conservative supporters wanted to know exactly what kind of judges he would appoint, and that's why he released the list.

Posted by: Jen the original at May 26, 2016 04:29 PM (Smc8E)

478 If I can hold my nose election after election to vote for the GOP choices, I can certainly do the same for Trump. Clinton isn't qualified to be a human being, yet alone President.

Posted by: MsYoung at May 26, 2016 04:29 PM (zZqfc)

479 Tomorrow is the FBI primary. Fingers crossed.

Posted by: MTF at May 26, 2016 04:30 PM (/m8T6)

480 Trump is an authoritarian





Honestly,where does that come from? can you give us some examples?

Posted by: Flawless Male Logic at May 26, 2016 04:11 PM (lKyWE)



From people who have never had to supervise others or accomplish a project on a deadline.

Posted by: Jen the original at May 26, 2016 04:14 PM (Smc8E)
Right every single person. Every last one. Whom says
Trump is Authoritarian has never held a supervision position or had to
accomplish a project by a deadline. If you'd like to know why you
continually reap division, maybe, just maybe, it's because you keep
sowing it. Ever think about that?

Posted by: MikeTheMoose at May 26, 2016 04:19 PM (0q2P7)


Some, if not all, are also incredibly fantastic fricken minds readers and don't even know it.

Posted by: Burnt Toast at May 26, 2016 04:30 PM (iYTlX)

481 But they're only libertarian with respect to pot-marijuana. They're
anti-2A and they're anti-religious liberty (wrt bakeries forced to make
cakes for gay weddings). To hell with them -- even if they had half a
shot of winning more than 2 states. Which they don't.

This is true for Johnson/Weld - not true for Austin Petersen, he really hammered Johnson over the bakery issue.

Posted by: Silent Moron at May 26, 2016 04:31 PM (0CeRG)

482 I still think Ted Cruz would have been a hell of a POTUS, but now I will vote for the lesser evil-- just like the last 2 elections. I still think conservatism will prevail over time-- we may go the way of Venzuela for awhile as emotion "trumps" reason these days in the electorate, but I may not be around to see it. People will learn painfully, but that has always been the way for most.

Posted by: Buckeye Abroad at May 26, 2016 04:31 PM (fSpRi)

483
Here you have a candidate who is considered a misogynist and, worse yet, an anti-Hispanic, raaaaacist bigot. And he decides to attack a female, Hispanic governor. A GOP governor.

How is that misogynist or anti-hispanic?

Posted by: Flawless Male Logic at May 26, 2016 04:31 PM (lKyWE)

484 OK HERE IT IS--Never Trump people are dildos. They WANT to be penises, but they have no live rounds-- They are DILDOS. I am not wild about Trump, but I hate Bernie and Billary--Sooooo, Trump is my only viable alternative. The other thing I would point out to you dildos--business people are prone to listening to others, unlike the current know-it-all currently occupying OUR White House. They tend to hire smart people -not useful idiots.

Posted by: rld77 WAY down south at May 26, 2016 04:31 PM (0xZDZ)

485 "6. I've said my peace already about how I feel about the noms and am willing to leave it at that so long as no one continues to pressure me to vote for Trump."

Great. Nobody is pressuring you to vote Trump.

Admit it every time Trump's name is mentioned you are going to assume that it's open season to get your #NeverTrump on.

Posted by: The Demise Of Trump Brigade at May 26, 2016 04:33 PM (aYRWr)

486 Ace Johnson is right! What kind of people are we, anyway? I say we stay and fight it out!





Posted by: Dr. Samuel Johnson at May 26, 2016 04:34 PM (FtrY1)

487 Ace, I think you're doing just fine. You've been a pretty fair broker in all of this. I thought you were too hard on Marco through the primary and your Trump-curious phase was disheartening, but I at least get where you are coming from and appreciate your honest viewpoints.

So - I don't read as much political news as many of the regulars here, I'm sure. I mostly come to this Smart Military Blog, hit up National Review, and then sometimes go to the Federalist. I at least know who Eric Erickson is because of links to his stuff but I don't visit RedState, Powerline, or whoever else is in the Conservative Commentariat because, frankly, I don't have the time or interest.

But there is something I've been seeing pop up - perhaps it was on Facebook where Pro-Trump stuff gets shared. It's the assertion that the #NeverTrump movement is nothing more than disaffected Establishment campaign consultants who are mad that they are losing their jobs. Nothing could be further from the truth for me.

I am #NeverTrump because the man disgusts me. He comes from a culture of Reality TV that disgusts me and made his business empire by paying off politicians that disgust me. His core supporters are idiots who think he'll make us all rich, Neo-Nazis who think we just need a White Man in charge, and other not-quite-so-racist people who still cling to White tribal identity - all of which disgust me. Then there are the working class people who just want to use him as a tool to shiv the Establishment. Okay, I get that and they don't disgust me... I just think they are being foolish.

Don't get me wrong, I am #NeverHillary too. That is why I am probably voting Libertarian this Fall. But if Hillary wins because real Conservatives won't unite behind Trump - so be it. She will do great damage to America, sure. But she won't have sycophants who are running around trying to explain how her actions are actually Conservative the way Trump will. I'd rather lose this election than lose my soul.

Maybe I'm in the minority and it really doesn't matter... but we shall see.

Posted by: Cranky Contrarian at May 26, 2016 04:34 PM (XwHES)

488 I'm doing what I can to set my financial house in order and make sure my responsibilities are met in ways that are not contingent on any government or any third party whatsoever. I am getting mentally prepared for things to get bad... really bad.

Elect whomever you want. None of them are going to deal with anything that matters but it if makes you feel better and gives you some level of comfort, go ahead, pull the lever for whatever rabble rouser suits your fancy and makes you feel like you're getting what you want.

Posted by: Damiano


And that's exactly where I am. No matter who wins: we lose. Look to your family and neighbors.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at May 26, 2016 04:35 PM (39g3+)

489 Let's make some assumptions:
1. Trump wins in Nov.
2. Once in office, he holds 100% true and devotes 100% of his effort to implementing whatever anyone has heard (or thinks they heard) that they like.
...

In January 2021, what is different? How?

If, A) Trump accomplishes everything people have heard (or think they heard) that they like, it will be by become even more of a dictator than Obama ever dreamed and utterly ignoring any financial consequence or limitation. Does that make anything better?

or B) He tries is damnedest, and makes every deal he can but nothing changes because he is opposed by the other 2 branches of government and at least 50% of the public. Does that make anything better?

Posted by: Damiano at May 26, 2016 04:35 PM (71OEY)

490 The problem with #nevertrump isn't that they aren't going to vote for Trump. Personally, I didn't have the slightest intention of voting for Rubio or L Graham if either man had gotten the nomination.

There are myriad reasons for that, but the biggest is foreign policy. Saying they would shoot down Russian planes to defend Turkey speaks for itself. Disqualified.

Perhaps Hillary might also try to do stupid shit like that, but I believe the peace-wing of her Party could keep her at least a bit tied down. Rubio or Graham and it's anchors away.

I wouldn't have voted for Bush either, because a Party that thinks running another Bush is simply insane and will not receive my support.

I have to say, I don't think any of the three had the slightest chance in Hell of winning the POTUS, with my vote or without.

What I would NOT have done is go on right-leaning sites and basically act like everyone who would vote for one of the three, was a fucking moron. This is what #nevertrump basically does. It's unbelievably grating.

Worse, instead of just promoting down-ballot stuff and being silent about Trump, they not only trash those supporting him, they are explicitly plotting a third Party run to DELIBERATELY hand the election to Hillary, so WE get stuck with the crippled bitch, and expect no criticism!

This is our lives they are playing with. Again, if they just promoted "conservative" (whatever the fuck that even means) candidates down ballot, and weren't the constant death of the party, who would complain about them?

But they are rooting for Hillary, many explicitly. Seriously, read these people when a good Trump poll comes out. They should be neutral in they're truly also #neverhillary, but they're not. They're angry. They want Hillary. They want to SHOW us. If they have to live with Trump than WE must be made to live with Hillary.

So, I say as far as #nevertrump, fuck them all. Fuck em in the ear.

#AlwaysTrump

Posted by: trickamsterdam at May 26, 2016 04:35 PM (6aXy5)

491

good post

no kidding

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at May 26, 2016 04:36 PM (qCMvj)

492
Posted by: MikeTheMoose at May 26, 2016 04:19 PM (0q2P7)

So tell how he is an authoritarian

Posted by: Flawless Male Logic at May 26, 2016 04:36 PM (lKyWE)

493 482" I still think Ted Cruz would have been a hell of a POTUS..."


A president needs to be able to judge risk versus reward in a realistic way.

Cruz demonstrated he doesn't possess that talent on the last day of his campaign. He went into crazy mode, attacking Trump in a way that would provide too many soundbites for the democrats.

Of course, everyone around him had to know that the chance of his attack working was next to nill.

He went ahead anyway.

Not the type of judgment we need in office.

Posted by: jwest at May 26, 2016 04:38 PM (Zs4uk)

494 BTW, I would be remiss to say that I do tell my Trump-accepting friends that there is a way that I will change my position and not be #NeverTrump. And it's not that bullshit way that most people are saying it - where they will go back on it as soon as he has a one-week news cycle without controversy.

If Trump is elected (and I think it's a pretty good possibility), and if Trump governs Conservatively enough in his first term, and if Trump doesn't do things that will embarrass me as an American... then I will vote for his reelection.

I hope to be convinced.

Posted by: Cranky Contrarian at May 26, 2016 04:39 PM (XwHES)

495 I am #NeverTrump because the man disgusts me. He comes from a culture of Reality TV that disgusts me and made his business empire by paying off politicians that disgust me. His core supporters are idiots who think he'll make us all rich, Neo-Nazis who think we just need a White Man in charge, and other not-quite-so-racist people who still cling to White tribal identity - all of which disgust me. Then there are the working class people who just want to use him as a tool to shiv the Establishment. Okay, I get that and they don't disgust me... I just think they are being foolish.
Posted by: Cranky Contrarian at May 26, 2016 04:34 PM (XwHES)

Do you people understand after reading this why those of us who have decided to try to save something of the country by voting for Trump why the Never Trumps are held in such disdain?

So I am a NeoNazi racist? Because by voting for Trump, I actually am doing so because I want a white guy in charge?
I disgust you because I am clinging to White Tribalism?
Who the hell do you think you are?

Posted by: Jen the original at May 26, 2016 04:42 PM (Smc8E)

496 In January 2021, what is different? How?

Illegal immigration is reduced massively, and the importation of Muslims trying to destroy our culture and country is severely curtailed. He appoints someone to the supreme court that isn't a radical lunatic. The VA is reformed, firing the people in charge, streamlining the system, and helping vets get better medical care faster. Tax reform reduces debt and simplifies the tax code.

That's a pretty big win, I'd say. Assuming he does 100% of his stated campaign official policy statements.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at May 26, 2016 04:42 PM (39g3+)

497 "If Trump is elected (and I think it's a pretty good possibility), and if Trump governs Conservatively enough in his first term, and if Trump doesn't do things that will embarrass me as an American... then I will vote for his reelection.

I hope to be convinced."

Posted by: Cranky Contrarian at May 26, 2016 04:39 PM (XwHES)


At that point, we won't need your vote.

History is made by those who don't wait to see if the results are exactly as they hoped.

Vote for Hillary or vote for Trump. Take a position and stand by it.


Posted by: jwest at May 26, 2016 04:43 PM (Zs4uk)

498 Spoiled brats can't be reasoned with. People like Ben Shapiro et al thought they were opinion makers...then they watched the stage coach they thought they were piloting ride away without them...without their permission.

Posted by: ccoffer at May 26, 2016 04:43 PM (ZrNvQ)

499 If Trump is elected (and I think it's a pretty good
possibility), and if Trump governs Conservatively enough in his first
term, and if Trump doesn't do things that will embarrass me as an
American... then I will vote for his reelection.

I hope to be convinced.


Posted by: Cranky Contrarian at May 26, 2016 04:39 PM (XwHES)

Exactly. I would love to be wrong...and WILL admit it when I'm proven wrong about Trump. Until then, I have to go with MY instincts, HIS past, his actions, his words and his associations. If the #NeverTrumpers are proven right, will the Trumpatrons be as honest?

Posted by: Mimzey at May 26, 2016 04:44 PM (aRUb8)

500 >>>So if you wish to say that you have a different interpretation

Yes objectively speaking what you have is a discussion not where someone certainly *did* call for Trump's assassination but as someone quipped, an extra legal removal from office.

I'm certainly not saying your sources are inaccurate. What I am saying is they don't support the conclusion. Therefore the allegation is invented from a subjective opinion of what was meant but not said, not from objective fact of what was actually said. Yes the idea that the person called in question called for assassination is *invented* because it is not explicit, and other reasonable alternatives exist.

Now you choose to find an implication in what I said that I was somehow questioning the factual accuracy of your source. I wasn't. This is the second time you found an implication which I think is unwarranted.

Now if you want to take it personal because I looked at the source you provided, concluded that your conclusion was subjective and unwarranted, and therefore the accusation is invented and bunk. Take it personal. Round here however we call that, a disagreement of opinion between adults.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose at May 26, 2016 04:44 PM (0q2P7)

501 As fate would have it. Conservatism became irrelevant right after Clinton. They did they're jobs, stopped his insane spending plans on at least 4 occasions, controlled the purse strings via a government shutdown of which they let Clinton out wit them and hang around their necks. Clinton came around, yes, the conservatives for whatever reason failed to capitalize on their stellar jobs.

Ever since then the Republican leaders have simply taken on the European model of governing which is simply to let someone else call the shots and take the heat, get elected but do not ever rock the boat for anyone else but the rich donor class people who happen to be the same people that the other side is courting.

I typed all of that out to simply state this. Mark my words, write it down.

A conservative will NEVER make conservatism relevant again. It will only become relevant out of need by more pragmatic leaders.

Posted by: Drider at May 26, 2016 04:46 PM (6Xbsz)

502 483
Here you have a candidate who is considered a misogynist and, worse yet, an anti-Hispanic, raaaaacist bigot. And he decides to attack a female, Hispanic governor. A GOP governor.
----------------------
How is that misogynist or anti-hispanic?
Posted by: Flawless Male Logic at May 26, 2016 04:31 PM
-------------------------------
Oh, for crap's sake. Who cares whether it IS anti-female or anti-Hispanic? What matters is how it LOOKS.

If Martinez were a Democrat and you're hitting her on policy, fine. But by what bizarre calculus is this other than an unforced error?

Posted by: Margarita DeVille at May 26, 2016 04:47 PM (T/5A0)

503 @463 "435
Trump is an authoritarian


Honestly,where does that come from? can you give us some examples?
Posted by: Flawless Male Logic at May 26, 2016 04:11 PM (lKyWE)

His rolling over like a puppy when Putin praised him. He expressed support for the Chinese government's massacre of protesters at Tiananmen Square, because itt showed their "strength".

He expressed admiration for Kim Jong Un executing family members to consolidate power. That showed Kim's strength.

He's said several times that people shouldn't be "allowed" to say certain things.

I'm surprised that people can't see the old school Latin strongman in him. He even has the mannerisms and facial expressions down. He's never expressed any interest in liberty, but admires "strength", even in dictators.

I had to explain to someone the other day the difference between a strong man (good), and a strongman (bad). Trump is number 2.
Posted by: stace at May 26, 2016 04:23 PM (ozZau)"


That's reading an awful lot into somebody simply shooting his mouth off, and I'd have to see/hear direct quotes - in context - anyway, since the media lies so much.

Posted by: Optimizer at May 26, 2016 04:47 PM (jPHi7)

504 "If the #NeverTrumpers are proven right, will the Trumpatrons be as honest?"

Perhaps we could work out some kind of bet. What, SPECIFICALLY, discrete, concrete, worse-than-anything-hillary-would-do thing do #NEVERTUMPs expect to happen if Trump gets elected?

Posted by: WTP at May 26, 2016 04:47 PM (XiVKO)

505 "I hope to be convinced."

Oh good. We'll all be waiting around with baited breathe to find out if you are satisfied or not.

Posted by: The Demise Of Trump Brigade at May 26, 2016 04:47 PM (aYRWr)

506 Wasn't it the hallowed William F Buckley himself who said he'd rather be governed by the first 50 people in the Boston phone book than by the faculty of Harvard? Well, we've seen what Harvard has done for our country (and Yale too). I think Buckley meant he respected the good old common sense of regular Americans...which is what Trump currently represents.

Though I'm a red state Republican, I for one am more than ready to try it.

Posted by: KimVerska at May 26, 2016 04:48 PM (/xSuM)

507 Which SC consideration on the list is Trump walking back? I heard him personally two weeks ago double down on it, explaining that it was formulated with the assistance of the Heritage Foundation and the Federalist Society and that their may be additional people added to it.

Posted by: Jen the original at May 26, 2016 04:13 PM (Smc8E)


It pays to keep in mind that whenever Trump says or does something that might appeal to conservatives, redbanzai pops up to say that he is lying or that it's just posturing. You can set your clock by it.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at May 26, 2016 04:48 PM (8p7pX)

508 Posted by: ccoffer at May 26, 2016 04:43 PM (ZrNvQ)

What did I miss about Shapiro? He's pretty sharp and articulate imo.

Posted by: Mimzey at May 26, 2016 04:48 PM (aRUb8)

509 So I am a NeoNazi racist? Because by voting for Trump, I actually am doing so because I want a white guy in charge?

I disgust you because I am clinging to White Tribalism?

Who the hell do you think you are?

Posted by: Jen the original at May 26, 2016 04:42 PM (Smc8E)

I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you are just a foolish person who wants to shiv the Establishment and see Trump as the vehicle. If you think Trump is actually going to be a good President or has conducted himself in any sort of an honorable way in the past - well then you're even more foolish.Or perhaps I am the one who is foolish for not seeing this great opportunity and getting on board. Who the hell do I think I am? Just a regular guy who gets the great honor of being part of a Democratic Republic - which means I can vote my conscience and tell other people how I feel.

Posted by: Cranky Contrarian at May 26, 2016 04:49 PM (XwHES)

510 "Perhaps we could work out some kind of bet. What, SPECIFICALLY, discrete, concrete, worse-than-anything-hillary-would-do thing do #NEVERTUMPs expect to happen if Trump gets elected?"

Don't bother. When Trump breaks ground on the wall and long after it's built they'll still be yelling that he won't build it.

It's an irrational, pathological condition we are talking about here.

Posted by: The Demise Of Trump Brigade at May 26, 2016 04:50 PM (aYRWr)

511 Choosing not to defeat Hillary Clinton any way possible is the thinking of what I would coin "confetishists". They sincerely believe they are holding conservative principles in the same way that some people sincerely believe they are Springer Spaniels named Ralph cruelly trapped in the wrong time and place. Nevertheless, they push on.

Posted by: Jamie at May 26, 2016 04:51 PM (eQFyY)

512 "And it did fail. Let me propose, to the stunned silence of the crowd, that maybe conservatism is not at the moment an electorally-winning set of policies, and needs some fine-tuning and even some general rethinking."

Conservatism did not fail. The people who proclaim they are American Conservatives, then turn out to be Democrat Lite, did. Capitulation on principles did.

Some of us can only abandon our principles for electoral pragmatism so far. You can vote for the guy who is a Democrat, or the lady who is an even more hardcore Democrat. That's your choice. Some of us will hold on to some principle. Those voting for Trump have abandoned theirs, and might as well change their party affiliation to Democrat.

Posted by: William Teach at May 26, 2016 04:54 PM (9bIJl)

513 "I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you are just a foolish person who wants to shiv the Establishment and see Trump as the vehicle. If you think Trump is actually going to be a good President or has conducted himself in any sort of an honorable way in the past - well then you're even more foolish.Or perhaps I am the one who is foolish for not seeing this great opportunity and getting on board. Who the hell do I think I am? Just a regular guy who gets the great honor of being part of a Democratic Republic - which means I can vote my conscience and tell other people how I feel."


It sounds like your the fool to me. You have no crystal ball to back up any of your claims whatsoever but then you drop the honor word like we are all suppose to snap to attention and salute.

Posted by: Drider at May 26, 2016 04:54 PM (6Xbsz)

514 I think Buckley meant he respected the good old common sense of regular Americans...which is what Trump currently represents.



Though I'm a red state Republican, I for one am more than ready to try it.





Posted by: KimVerska at May 26, 2016 04:48 PM (/xSuM)

This is an amazing belief system to me. Trump is a "good old common sense 'regular American'"???? What is that evaluation based on? Just curious.

Posted by: Mimzey at May 26, 2016 04:54 PM (aRUb8)

515 "It's an irrational, pathological condition we are talking about here."

It's even worse over at Patterico...

Posted by: WTP at May 26, 2016 04:55 PM (XiVKO)

516 >>>So tell how he is an authoritarian

Why exactly? So we can have another long discussion that convinces no one and will only act as potential fodder against Trump later? I've already said that I've got no interest in campaigning against him.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose at May 26, 2016 04:55 PM (0q2P7)

517 Well, if this is the way that Pro-Trump ambassadors convince worried Conservatives to untie behind their candidate, I'm sure we will have unity in no time!

Posted by: Cranky Contrarian at May 26, 2016 04:56 PM (XwHES)

518 Explaining means you're losing, pajama boy.

Posted by: Berserker at May 26, 2016 04:56 PM (jtQ8E)

519 *unite

Posted by: Cranky Contrarian at May 26, 2016 04:56 PM (XwHES)

520
His rolling over like a puppy when Putin praised him. He expressed support for the Chinese government's massacre of protesters at Tiananmen Square, because itt showed their "strength". He expressed admiration for Kim Jong Un executing family members to consolidate power. That showed Kim's strength.

Thats it? that is some weak tea.Besides the fact that you are completely taking those statements out of context,doesn't someone actually have to do something authoritarian to earn the title

Posted by: Flawless Male Logic at May 26, 2016 04:56 PM (lKyWE)

521 Old hotness: Let it burn! Trump will burn it down! Consequences be damned! The GOPe (AKA anyone who disagrees with me) must be punished. Go Trump!

New Hotness: You #nevertrump people need to grow up and be constructive. Shut your whore mouths about the daily horribleness from Trump. Go trump!

Posted by: Malachi45 at May 26, 2016 04:57 PM (Y9zAG)

522 >>>Conservatives to untie behind their candidate, I'm sure we will have unity in no time!

Freud would have been proud of that one.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose at May 26, 2016 04:57 PM (0q2P7)

523
This is an amazing belief system to me. Trump is a "good old common sense 'regular American'"???? What is that evaluation based on? Just curious.


Well let's put it this way: he's more like Joe random on the street than a Harvard grad who had a red carpet rolled out to a position of power.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at May 26, 2016 04:58 PM (39g3+)

524 "But you know why I'm even political at all? Because of Bill Clinton and his repulsive Lady Macbeth wife." -me too. Until they came along, I never realized how seriously rotted-out this country had become. It was a real shock to me to find out that the majority of the people in this country really just DGAF about outright criminality in their elected officials. Unfortunately instead of shocking the electorate into exercising some judgment, the Clintons' criminality just showed the way for the criminals to come.

Posted by: mikesixes at May 26, 2016 04:59 PM (tk6II)

525 You nailed it yesterday, and again today. I have not read Red State probably since I found you. I really thought there were too many
pompous prigs.

Posted by: Auntie Doodles at May 26, 2016 04:59 PM (teYv/)

526 I'm on the fence about voting for Trump or not, and after reading this thread, if the election were held right now, I wouldn't vote for him.

Not enough of his supporters are willing to admit his grave faults.

He will need extremely close supervision if he wins. Not enough people here (anecdotally) are willing to admit his flaws or willing to hold his feet to the fire.

Posted by: stace at May 26, 2016 05:00 PM (ozZau)

527 I've been a daily reader (multiple times a day) of AceHQ for 4 years but seldom ever comment. This post, in my opinion, is the most reasoned and timely post I've ever read. Well, except for the one on kid's cereal. That was a classic.

Posted by: 1curiousmind at May 26, 2016 05:01 PM (XxCCS)

528 Stace, I'm not going to tell you who to vote for. Vote for your cat if you want. But I fail to understand how someone's supporters being jerks makes you more or less likely to vote for the actual candidate.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at May 26, 2016 05:01 PM (39g3+)

529
I'm old enough to remember when we use to call tinpot dictators "stongman" and is was taken as an insult not an approval of them

Posted by: Flawless Male Logic at May 26, 2016 05:01 PM (lKyWE)

530 You have no crystal ball to back up any of your
claims whatsoever but then you drop the honor word like we are all
suppose to snap to attention and salute.



Posted by: Drider at May 26, 2016 04:54 PM (6Xbsz)

No one has a crystal ball of the future. Thats why past actions and statements, and associations are the basis for the best guess anyone can make.
The same reality was pointed out about Obama, his past, his words, his associations etc. The true believers ridiculed those trying to point this out. Why? Because their "saviour" was saying all the right things. "most transparent".."most honest".."give power back to the people"..."take the influence of special interests groups out of government"...etc, etc. Who was right about that?
What's the difference?

Posted by: Mimzey at May 26, 2016 05:02 PM (aRUb8)

531 As for introspection, I would have pointed out the inarguable fact that the GOP has broken every promise it has made to its voters. I might have made allowances for the fact that many of them were traumatized, like Boehner, by the crap the Dems and media had been flinging at them since Gingrich was Speaker. But there would have been no excusing their gross self indulgence (seriously, exempting yourself from insider trading laws you just passsed?)and insularity.

But when the voters had the chance to vote for ONE man who has consistently stood up for their interests, in the court's and Congress, they chose instead to vote for the mountebank who shouted loudest.

Not sure who should be doing more introspection now.

The death of a republic is carried in its mobs, and the mobs have been awakened.

Posted by: Richard McEnroe at May 26, 2016 05:03 PM (y85TW)

532 514 '...This is an amazing belief system to me. Trump is a "good old common sense 'regular American'"???? What is that evaluation based on? Just curious.
Posted by: Mimzey at May 26, 2016 04:54 PM (aRUb'


"Belief system"? Who let the liberal in here?

Well, you could start with the first "Trumpism", which was essentially "Gee, we have millions of foreigners invading our country, maybe we ought to beef up our border security." Implicit with that is "No, it's not racist, it's the same thing any normal country would do, and you go ahead and tell anyone who says otherwise to go to hell."

Another that comes to mind is, "How come we're paying for the defense of all these other countries who aren't third-world countries, and are certainly able to pay their own way?"

At the NRA there was "Hey, if some of the victims of the mass shootings were armed, the shooter may not have gotten as far, and probably wouldn't have shown up in the first place."

Or "Gee, a plane goes missing as it approaches Egypt, and a ship captain said he saw an explosion. On what planet does that not add up to a terrorist attack?"

Need more?

Posted by: Optimizer at May 26, 2016 05:04 PM (jPHi7)

533 Well let's put it this way: he's more like Joe
random on the street than a Harvard grad who had a red carpet rolled out
to a position of power.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at May 26, 2016 04:58 PM (39g3+)

You can't be serious.

Posted by: Mimzey at May 26, 2016 05:05 PM (aRUb8)

534 Holy Crap, just vote against Hillary by voting for the opposite party. Third party BS is meaningless and a waste of everyone's time at this point.

It's just not that hard to understand.

Vote against the Clinton Crime Syndicate and quit thinking your vote is somehow a personal intimate act. No sin is ascribed to you if you vote against Hillary and have to choose some other doofus. It's not sex, it's pulling a lever. It's also secret.

I had no idea that people thought voting a name was some sort of moral stance that would hang on their souls for all eternity, especially when the other choice is even more horrific.

Posted by: dagny at May 26, 2016 05:06 PM (UbIg6)

535 Pro-Trump internet commenters are like anal lube. They help Hillary go in fairly painlessly.

Posted by: reform highlander at May 26, 2016 05:07 PM (jCH/T)

536 @526 "I'm on the fence about voting for Trump or not, and after reading this thread, if the election were held right now, I wouldn't vote for him.

Not enough of his supporters are willing to admit his grave faults.

He will need extremely close supervision if he wins. Not enough people here (anecdotally) are willing to admit his flaws or willing to hold his feet to the fire.
Posted by: stace at May 26, 2016 05:00 PM (ozZau)"



See what I mean about the drama queens? "I MIGHT have voted for Trump, but I won't because I'm so disappointed in you guys."

And get it right! You're not "on the fence"! You're on the Wall ... the Great wall of Trump!!

Posted by: Optimizer at May 26, 2016 05:08 PM (jPHi7)

537 528 Stace, I'm not going to tell you who to vote for. Vote for your cat if you want. But I fail to understand how someone's supporters being jerks makes you more or less likely to vote for the actual candidate.
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at May 26, 2016 05:01 PM (39g3+)

Sorry, I wasn't clear, Christopher. I'm not calling them jerks. I worry that too many of them are sycophants who won't hold the president accountable. He will need to be controlled with a shock collar, and those who think literally everything he does is wonderful won't be able to administer that shock.

Posted by: stace at May 26, 2016 05:09 PM (ozZau)

538 "511 Choosing not to defeat Hillary Clinton any way possible is the thinking of what I would coin "confetishists". They sincerely believe they are holding conservative principles in the same way that some people sincerely believe they are Springer Spaniels named Ralph cruelly trapped in the wrong time and place. Nevertheless, they push on.
Posted by: Jamie at May 26, 2016 04:51 PM (eQFyY)"
Bingo

Posted by: dagny at May 26, 2016 05:10 PM (UbIg6)

539 "I'm on the fence about voting for Trump or not, and after reading this thread, if the election were held right now, I wouldn't vote for him.

Not enough of his supporters are willing to admit his grave faults. "

Here's a hint:

Nobody gives a shit who you vote for because we know you are pathological.

Posted by: The Demise Of Trump Brigade at May 26, 2016 05:11 PM (aYRWr)

540
@535

you seem to know a lot about anal lube

Posted by: Flawless Male Logic at May 26, 2016 05:12 PM (lKyWE)

541 Conservative and liberal have lost their meaning this cycle.
Either your pro America or your a globalist.

That Ace continues with her intellectual dishonesty is hardly a shock. The phony voted for Rapin' Bill so it's hardly a reach that she'll vote for her sister Killary.

Big shout to Ace for slipping off her mask.

Posted by: Berserker at May 26, 2016 05:12 PM (jtQ8E)

542 I assume they continue to write the volume of articles (i.e. the wall-to-wall at RedState of which you note) because they get clicks. The audience obviously isn't done debating this, or at least is still feeling the need to dwell in the emotional venting stage.

That the principles of limited government are not an "electorally winning set of policies" is no surprise. Mitt Romney pegged that with his much-maligned 47% comment, governments playing Santa are always popular until those policies play out to their inevitable disastrous conclusion. I'm not sure they will ever win again until after we've hit Venezuela-stage. But if people wanna go retool them, rethink them, imagining that's productive, good for them.

The Worker's Party of America Trump says he wants to morph the GOP into is not a vehicle for limited government, it is a vehicle for handing out goodies to his voting coalition just like the modern Dems are. I guess you can lament the 9000th Jonah Goldberg column about why he won't change his mind and vote for Trump, he probably should just move on to another topic for awhile, but his and NR's and RS's reasons for being #NeverTrump are not going to be altered by Trump gaining the nomination.

Posted by: cjw at May 26, 2016 05:13 PM (onydf)

543 Posted by: Optimizer at May 26, 2016 05:04 PM (jPHi7)

As one of Trumps spox said recently...(paraphrased)"The idea that his words have meaning is ridiculous." Why is this belief in his words..well, believed?? Obama had great words for America...a regular "common sense American" did he not?
Willful blindness?

Posted by: Mimzey at May 26, 2016 05:13 PM (aRUb8)

544
@541

do you think thats funny?because it ain't

Posted by: Flawless Male Logic at May 26, 2016 05:14 PM (lKyWE)

545 Posted by: stace at May 26, 2016 05:09 PM (ozZau)

Potentially.

However, we KNOW FOR SURE that Hillary will be feted with the most obsequious display of revolting adoration since "the One" ascended to the throne of imperial power.

Trump sucks. Hillary sucks far more. It's a binary choice.

Posted by: dagny at May 26, 2016 05:14 PM (UbIg6)

546

@534

Brilliant!

Posted by: The Demise Of Trump Brigade at May 26, 2016 05:15 PM (aYRWr)

547 See what I mean about the drama queens? "I MIGHT have voted for Trump, but I won't because I'm so disappointed in you guys."

And get it right! You're not "on the fence"! You're on the Wall ... the Great wall of Trump!!
Posted by: Optimizer at May 26, 2016 05:08 PM (jPHi7)

He's applying to work for me, not vice versa.

I don't think Trump the Great understands that.

Posted by: stace at May 26, 2016 05:16 PM (ozZau)

548 Posted by: dagny at May 26, 2016 05:14 PM (UbIg6)

Yep. True.

Posted by: stace at May 26, 2016 05:18 PM (ozZau)

549 536--- Optimizer ---
Aren't you just being a "drama queen" yourself?
It seems that you're just posturing and expressing your feeeelings and putting Stace down.

I mean, if you were interested in moving someone toward the vote-for-Trump camp, you might have addressed her reasonable concerns rather than hurl ridicule. (?)


Posted by: Margarita DeVille at May 26, 2016 05:18 PM (T/5A0)

550 RE: "i get your anti-trump feelings but I don't get how Hillary Clinton has become an acceptable outcome.



Posted by: ace at May 26, 2016 03:19 PM (dciA+)

Who said anything about "acceptable outcome"? Obviously neither Trump nor Hillary are "acceptable outcomes." Neither Trotsky or Lenin were acceptable outcomes. But Trump as an outcome is far less acceptable as it encourages and enables a Party to continue to violate its own stated values and principles.
We need a conservative opposition party. That will either be 1) a third party [cue 30-50 years of being in the wilderness] or 2) the Republican party, chastened and repentant [cue Yet Another Eight Years in the wilderness].
I choose option 2.

Posted by: Igor at May 26, 2016 05:19 PM (hyZLL)

551 That Ace continues with her intellectual dishonesty
is hardly a shock. The phony voted for Rapin' Bill so it's hardly a
reach that she'll vote for her sister Killary.



Big shout to Ace for slipping off her mask.





Posted by: Berserker at May 26, 2016 05:12 PM (jtQ8E)

Med time? Have a puddin' cup and reward yourself. You deserve it!

Posted by: Mimzey at May 26, 2016 05:19 PM (aRUb8)

552 Who said anything about "acceptable outcome"?
Obviously neither Trump nor Hillary are "acceptable outcomes." Neither
Trotsky or Lenin were acceptable outcomes. But Trump as an outcome is
far less acceptable as it encourages and enables a Party to continue to
violate its own stated values and principles.
We need a conservative
opposition party. That will either be 1) a third party [cue 30-50 years
of being in the wilderness] or 2) the Republican party, chastened and
repentant [cue Yet Another Eight Years in the wilderness].
I choose option 2.


Posted by: Igor at May 26, 2016 05:19 PM (hyZLL)


Exactly.

Posted by: Mimzey at May 26, 2016 05:21 PM (aRUb8)

553 "...that maybe conservatism is not at the moment an electorally-winning set of policies, and needs some fine-tuning and even some general rethinking.

It would be a useful inquiry to discover why that occurred, instead of just saying, as liberals do, "Republicans are stupid, racist, and afraid of The Other.""

My world is shaken. You mean sun doesn't go round the Earth? I'm looking forward to discussion of this proposition. Seriously.

Posted by: C. Moss at May 26, 2016 05:22 PM (HS6CF)

554 Hillary Clinton will put Marxists on the bench who will neutralize Citizens United...you know, the case that, had one vote gone the other way, would have made it illegal to criticize Hillary Clinton. She will continue Obama's abuse of the IRS to destroy conservative organizations. She will push through amnesty to grant voting rights to millions of undocumented Democrats.

If you genuinely believe that after four to eight years of Hillary Clinton, after being demographically displaced, having their First Amendment rights stripped bare, and having no ability to organize, conservatives will ever win anything again in this country, you need to stop taking drugs.

Posted by: Jay at May 26, 2016 05:22 PM (9Mnn7)

555 Note that pajama boy Ace has never apologized to Trump supporters for her petty petulant mean girl meltdowns.

Ace's word is garbage.

Posted by: Berserker at May 26, 2016 05:24 PM (jtQ8E)

556 Posted by: Igor at May 26, 2016 05:19 PM (hyZLL)

This.

Posted by: Malachi45 at May 26, 2016 05:24 PM (Y9zAG)

557 .........her petty petulant mean girl meltdowns.



Posted by: Berserker at May 26, 2016 05:24 PM (jtQ8E)


Ummmm.....project much?



Posted by: Mimzey at May 26, 2016 05:26 PM (aRUb8)

558 554 Hillary Clinton will put Marxists on the bench who will neutralize Citizens United...

Posted by: Jay at May 26, 2016 05:22 PM (9Mnn7)
------------------
Not to mention Heller.

This is a powerful argument to vote for the Orange Weaselhead. With Hillary, I have a 0% chance of an Constitutionalist. With Trump, it is reasonable to think I have at least a 50% chance of one.

Posted by: Margarita DeVille at May 26, 2016 05:30 PM (T/5A0)

559 Here's a hint:

Nobody gives a shit who you vote for because we know you are pathological.

Posted by: The Demise Of Trump Brigade at May 26, 2016 05:11 PM (aYRWr)

Likewise, Trump said he didn't need the votes of people who'd supported other candidates in the primary. We'll see if he holds to that strategy.

Posted by: stace at May 26, 2016 05:31 PM (ozZau)

560 So Ace you seemed to be demanding that anyone with principles MUST vote for this guy who realistically , when you look at his long term stands and not his grandstanding , is against everything I stand for.

Why?

You have simply not made the case that Trump will be less destructive to the Republic than Hillary. It's kinda like picking between a tornado and a hurricane. Which is worse? Depends, but hard to figure out before hand.

Now maybe Trump will wake up and change his tune credibly. I'm waiting. Be glad to see it.

But till then, don't tell us to shut up. That is beneath you.

The principled stand is to criticize from a principled position. Trump will not come around to a principled stance if we shut up. He will just do as he always has, lie, insult, backstab, cheat and betray. End of Story. So why are you telling us to shut up?

Neither Hillary or Trump has any principles except "Me first and above all". So me and millions like me will continue to rip to shreds both the Donald and Queen Hillary as we see fit.

Posted by: Unsk at May 26, 2016 05:32 PM (ItEIu)

561 I have to think Ben Shapiro will sleep better at night than myself when Hillary wins.

Posted by: waelse1 at May 26, 2016 05:32 PM (BI4tl)

562 Ironic, isn't it, that the types who wanted to see Republicans they don't like lose, even to Democrats, are the same types that demand that everybody else fall in line with Trump.

There is nothing slimy about opposing Trump. It isn't moral preening. It is positioning oneself for the aftermath of the November election.

It is distancing from the unsavory types who are cheerleading for Trump, and whose arguments come down to "vote for Trump or else you are a 'cuck' and probably a Jooo".

It is about the irony of people who smashed not just some squishes or "establishment" types, but actual conservatives; they who then turned around and demanded absolute party loyalty (under their benevolent control).

And it did fail. Let me propose, to the stunned silence of the crowd, that maybe conservatism is not at the moment an electorally-winning set of policies, and needs some fine-tuning and even some general rethinking.

Then we've gone past the point of no return. We really are doomed. All we could do it limit the rate of the damage while trying to preserve something somehow.

But people wanted to gamble everything on a toss of a die loaded against them.


Posted by: The Political Hat at May 26, 2016 05:35 PM (itfg0)

563 Not to mention Heller.

This is a powerful argument to vote for the Orange Weaselhead. With Hillary, I have a 0% chance of an Constitutionalist. With Trump, it is reasonable to think I have at least a 50% chance of one.
Posted by: Margarita DeVille at May 26, 2016 05:30 PM (T/5A0)

Yes, it's THE reason to vote for him.

Posted by: stace at May 26, 2016 05:35 PM (ozZau)

564 561
I have to think Ben Shapiro will sleep better at night than myself when Hillary wins.

Posted by: waelse1 at May 26, 2016 05:32 PM (BI4tl)

What's the shade about Shapiro? What am I missing?

Posted by: Mimzey at May 26, 2016 05:36 PM (aRUb8)

565 What Unsk and Political Hat said.

Posted by: stace at May 26, 2016 05:42 PM (ozZau)

566
Conservatism did not fail. The people who proclaim they are American Conservatives, then turn out to be Democrat Lite, did. Capitulation on principles did.

Some of us can only abandon our principles for electoral pragmatism so far. You can vote for the guy who is a Democrat, or the lady who is an even more hardcore Democrat. That's your choice. Some of us will hold on to some principle. Those voting for Trump have abandoned theirs, and might as well change their party affiliation to Democrat.
Posted by: William Teach at May 26, 2016 04:54 PM (9bIJl)

Hearing some #nevertrumper croak out some fucking so-tired-it's-practically-comatose bullshit about his gay-ass "principles" has got to be like the first million years in Hell. Makes me wanna play Russian roulette with a semi-auto.

Guess what? Some people are just shits, darling. And "conservatism" (whatever that even fucking means) did fail. Utterly. Those are your two reality checks of the day. Or what do you call what happened in Indiana?

And the winners don't change their Party affiliations, bro. The losers do.

PS- You should refer to your "beliefs," not your "principles." "Principles" is grating, because it implies a moral superiority to the listener, that clearly in your case, isn't there. "Beliefs" just let's people know that you're an eccentric weirdo, and they won't hate you so much. No wonder you people hate Trump... You resent him because you can't talk or persuade for shit.

Posted by: trickamsterdam at May 26, 2016 05:43 PM (6aXy5)

567 On the bright side after the election when this site folds, we can continue to read Ace's tripe on Huffington Post.

Hat tip to Michelle Fields.
Who says white knighting doesn't pay off?

Posted by: Berserker at May 26, 2016 05:43 PM (FbUrh)

568 I'm with you ace.

Look, it's like an artist, with some talent and vision, putting out a painting, and everyone hates it. He wails and cries "they just don't get me!" Fuck that guy. You have a vision? maybe you don't pull the public along in one leap, maybe you make it work a bit at a time. Incrementally. by the way, that's I how the fucking left does it. And they win. And we lose.

What we are doing is lazy. Lazy loses every time.

Posted by: George Orwell's Ghost at May 26, 2016 05:45 PM (VPvxh)

569 Posted by: Mimzey at May 26, 2016 05:36 PM (aRUb

Supposedly a conservative, his animus for Trump is driving him to Team Hillary. #LetItBurn I guess.

Posted by: waelse1 at May 26, 2016 05:49 PM (BI4tl)

570 Like a train wreck, can't turn away from watching the pre-ban Berserker meltdown.

Posted by: stace at May 26, 2016 05:50 PM (ozZau)

571 Posted by: trickamsterdam at May 26, 2016 05:43 PM (6aXy5)
Delusional at best, imo. Others may feel differently.

Posted by: Mimzey at May 26, 2016 05:50 PM (aRUb8)

572 Do you Trump commenters think this aggressive style of argument on every online comment section helps the cause? If the rest of us were receptive to that sorta thing, we'd already be on board the train. You're not only not selling Trump, you're creating buyers remorse for things we had already been long sold on, like having bought into the Republican party to begin with. Trump's already the nominee, his polling is way more competitive than I and probably most people expected, and you're preoccupying brain cycles that could be filled with thoughts about how much I don't like Hillary with thoughts about how much I don't like you lot.

Let someone like Ace, who I actually have respect for, make this case for you. You would do your candidate a world of good by keeping your thoughts to yourselves.

Posted by: reform highlander at May 26, 2016 05:50 PM (jCH/T)

573 "What's the shade about Shapiro? What am I missing?
Posted by: Mimzey at May 26, 2016 05:36 PM (aRUb"

He's a #nevertrump imbecile and a cuck's cuck who made the mistake of demanding we believe him and not our Lyin' eyes during the whole Michelle Field's Fiasco.

Think this is bad? Just wait if Hillary wins, and #nevertrump is blamed by the American Right for every stupid thing she does for four straight years.

Don't think it'll be bad? Dems still haven't forgiven Nader for 2000, and he was never quoted as saying he'd rather have Bush.

#AlwaysTrump

Posted by: trickamsterdam at May 26, 2016 05:52 PM (6aXy5)

574 Lol, Ace has revealed himself to be a phony this season. That people still find him credible is......Sad!

Posted by: Berserker at May 26, 2016 05:52 PM (FbUrh)

575 Supposedly a conservative, his animus for Trump is driving him to Team Hillary. #LetItBurn I guess.

Posted by: waelse1 at May 26, 2016 05:49 PM (BI4tl)

Thanks waelse1. He states he will vote for Hillary? I missed that. Was it made in a statement of objective reality, or facetiously?

Posted by: Mimzey at May 26, 2016 05:53 PM (aRUb8)

576 574
Lol, Ace has revealed himself to be a phony this season. That people still find him credible is......Sad!

Posted by: Berserker at May 26, 2016 05:52 PM (FbUrh)

A "phony" what?? Can you provide some examples or context?

Posted by: Mimzey at May 26, 2016 05:54 PM (aRUb8)

577 The people Ace refers to like they fucking matter: Allahpundit, Andrew Sullivan, Bill Kristol, Ed Morrissey, etc, etc. People could care less what they and yes Ace thinks. They don't have the influence that they think they do, hence the vapors for Trump who pops their bubble.

Posted by: Berserker at May 26, 2016 05:56 PM (FbUrh)

578 Thanks for the "hornet's nest" part of the post, Ace. I've been introspecting a lot on that lately - so much so that I've been wondering if I'm even a conservative.

In my humbles, the conservative movement failed because it's too dogmatic - we (yes, "we" - I've reconcluded that I'm still a conservative) have too much passion on too many issues. For myself, the rule of law is the most important; everything else, to the degree I even have an opinion, stems from that. Half of the country seems to have abandoned this basic principle, to my dismay.

(On pretty much everything else I don't say anything - though I'll chime in on this bathroom controversy upon request.)

Posted by: FireHorse at May 26, 2016 05:58 PM (ByXRe)

579 Ace being head proponent of the Let it Burn crowd then when Trump started winning primaries the meltdowns began.
Using leftist tactics in the Michelle Fields fiasco.
The guy can dish it out but can hardly hack it.

Posted by: Berserker at May 26, 2016 05:59 PM (FbUrh)

580 You know what keeps me from supporting Trump? Trump supporters. Fuck you white power assholes, I won't ever stand with you.

And, no, 'cuck' isn't a neutral description. It's white power talk. End of story.

Posted by: DriveBy at May 26, 2016 06:01 PM (C9Vc8)

581 "PS- You should refer to your "beliefs," not your "principles." "Principles" is grating, because it implies a moral superiority to the listener,"

Great post.

It's not about principle regardless. They are lying. Want to know how I know that?

Because Trump has put out a list of judges for the Supreme Court.


If they vote for Hillary they get her Supreme Court.

If they sit home and Hillary wins they get her Supreme Court.

If Trump wins they at least get the court from the list.

They are not telling the truth about their motives. It's plain as day.

Some are complete liberals. Some are Hillary trolls. Some are butthurt over Cruz and Rubio and want Trump to fail with all of their hearts and minds. They are the dead-enders, the passive aggressive ones that will sabotage our side every chance they get as revenge.

They won't be reasoned with. They have different agendas than the rest of us.




Posted by: The Demise Of Trump Brigade at May 26, 2016 06:02 PM (aYRWr)

582 If you genuinely believe that after four to eight years of Hillary Clinton, after being demographically displaced, having their First Amendment rights stripped bare, and having no ability to organize, conservatives will ever win anything again in this country, you need to stop taking drugs.
Posted by: Jay at May 26, 2016 05:22 PM (9Mnn7)

I am still in awe of the number of people on this blog who live in some kind of world governed by the latest movie or their favorite TV series. Who believe that the scripts they watch play out are actually like real life and would play out the same way.

the "let it burn" crowd.

I would venture to say that most of these people have never been to nor had any meaningful discussion with third world country ex pats who managed to escape and are now living here or in some other similar nation.

Talk to them. Find out exactly what "let it burn" means. And why preventing the "burn" is far preferable to trying to live through it , or escape.

We are extremely fortunate in this country. We were , at one time, and still have some semblance of being the most free and prosperous people on earth. From the revolutionary war on, millions of Americans, mostly men, have died or suffered horrible injuries to preserve that freedom.
And today, we have lazy and careless individuals who think that this will last with no effort on their part. Someone else will do the hard work, and someone else will die to preserve it. We think each president or congress can't be that bad, yet with intermittant exceptions, each one in the past 100 years has been worse for liberty than the predecessor.

Voting is the only thing that we actually have at the moment to try to stop this slide. Don't tell me garbage about "when the shooting starts", The vast majority of Americans do not have the stomach for such things and you'll quickly find yourself in the gulag when your neighbors, out of self preservation, turn you in.

Posted by: Jen the original at May 26, 2016 06:03 PM (Smc8E)

583 "572 Do you Trump commenters think this aggressive style of argument on every online comment section helps the cause? If the rest of us were receptive to that sorta thing, we'd already be on board the train. You're not only not selling Trump, you're creating buyers remorse for things we had already been long sold on, like having bought into the Republican party to begin with. Trump's already the nominee, his polling is way more competitive than I and probably most people expected, and you're preoccupying brain cycles that could be filled with thoughts about how much I don't like Hillary with thoughts about how much I don't like you lot.

Let someone like Ace, who I actually have respect for, make this case for you. You would do your candidate a world of good by keeping your thoughts to yourselves.
Posted by: reform highlander at May 26, 2016 05:50 PM (jCH/T)"

What happened to your precious "principles?" I thought Trump voters were the ones who were LIVs and driven by emotion?

And now a Trump-hater is saying he's might let his decision on the fate of his country be based curt posts on a website? Oh, horrible fate! Horrible fate!

Do you see why so many despise the weakness and hypocrisy of you types?

#AlwaysTrump

Posted by: trickamsterdam at May 26, 2016 06:05 PM (6aXy5)

584 Not sure why people think that the President has to know every issue through and through the day after he announces that he's running.

The pundits want a 30 point plan for everything.

Trump will win and be regarded as one of the best Presidents ever. He will grow the economy, he will build the wall, he will bring back jobs, and do as good or better job than Reagan on stocking the SCOTUS.

And anyone who thinks he's dumb or know's nothing is mistaken. He certainly knew how to dismantle the best that the Republican party had to offer in a very good year for candidates. Plus he's made Hillary and Bill shut their carpet holes.

Take no chances, take the devil you know.

Posted by: Dirks Strewn at May 26, 2016 06:06 PM (QdAXQ)

585 Posted by: Mimzey at May 26, 2016 05:53 PM (aRUb

Sorry didn't mean to imply he will pull the lever for Hillary!, just that he spends every day railing against the only alternative. One vote doesn't really matter but he uses his media megaphone to help her.

Posted by: waelse1 at May 26, 2016 06:06 PM (BI4tl)

586 Cuck has absolutely no racist/racial conotations.

Mandigoing on the other hand, Yes.

To the pajama boys offended at the word Cuck, shame on you!

Posted by: Berserker at May 26, 2016 06:06 PM (FbUrh)

587 So what happens if this e-mail server brings down Hillary before the general election? We maybe get Bernie by default, and moral qualms about Benghazi and Clinton corruption become moot. That happens and, yeah, voting against Trump gets way easier for the rest of us.

Posted by: reform highlander at May 26, 2016 06:08 PM (jCH/T)

588 Posted by: waelse1 at May 26, 2016 06:06 PM (BI4tl)

Thanks for the clarification.

Posted by: Mimzey at May 26, 2016 06:11 PM (aRUb8)

589 Don't worry guys once the general electorate gets word that Trump is not a real conservative, then it'll all unravel.

Trust me.

Posted by: Allahpundit at May 26, 2016 06:11 PM (FbUrh)

590


Posted by: The Demise Of Trump Brigade at May 26, 2016 06:02 PM (aYRWr)

True believer.

Posted by: Mimzey at May 26, 2016 06:13 PM (aRUb8)

591 587

So you would vote for a communist over a capitalist? Wow. Amazing some of you guys call yourselves conservative.

I vote vote for Hillary 10 times over before I vote for sanders. I can deal with corruption, I can't deal with Communism.

Posted by: Deno at May 26, 2016 06:14 PM (g3y2Q)

592 So what happens if this e-mail server brings down Hillary before the general election? We maybe get Bernie by default, and moral qualms about Benghazi and Clinton corruption become moot.

Posted by: reform highlander at May 26, 2016 06:08 PM (jCH/T)
________

Then 2016 in effect becomes the Great Referendum in which America picks capitalism or communism.

Posted by: FireHorse at May 26, 2016 06:15 PM (ByXRe)

593 Posted by: trickamsterdam at May 26, 2016 06:05 PM (6aXy5)

You are such ridiculous people. Not saying Ace would influence me to support Trump, just saying I actually take Ace's arguments seriously, and that the rest of you make Hillary more tempting than she has any right to be. I'm also saying, please stop being rude dickheads if you want people to listen to you. I've got nothing to sell you, I don't want either candidate. You presumably want to get more of us on board with Trump, though.

Posted by: reform highlander at May 26, 2016 06:16 PM (jCH/T)

594 Brakabama knows more than anyone else the damage he's done. Chickens coming home to roost and all that. He'd like a republican to win instead of a democrat.

Posted by: ccoffer at May 26, 2016 06:17 PM (ZrNvQ)

595 RE: "We maybe get Bernie by default, and moral qualms about Benghazi and
Clinton corruption become moot. That happens and, yeah, voting against
Trump gets way easier for the rest of us."

Oh don't worry -- Sanders will then become The Absolute Worstest Democrat Ever and therefore -- VOTE TRUMP. ; > )

Long ago I realized that the party of the Democrats has an endless supply -- a black hole, as it were -- of absolutely awful fascist liberal candidates.

So get rid of one and a score spring up in his or her place.

That's another reason why Vote Now For Our Liberal Republican To Prevent That Liberal Democrat Over There From Being Elected is a non-starter for me and now millions of others like me.

This is a game. We simply can't go on like this.

More important than not having This Current Awful Liberal Democrat Elected President is having an actual conservative opposition party.

That's what matters.

Because the game of "Vote For Our Guy Trotsky Over Here" in order to prevent That Guy Lenin from being elected is an endless game. Soon it becomes "Vote For Our Guy Lenin Over Here in order to prevent That Guy Stalin from being elected. And so on.

We can't go on like this.

**And we won't.**

Soon the Republican Party will have another eight years to contemplate whether they'd like to be the conservative opposition party and stop putting up Trotskys for our votes.

Or we will have to spend 30-50 years building our third party while the RINOS scream at us for Ruining the Country because we didn't vote for Trotsky.

Posted by: Igor at May 26, 2016 06:19 PM (hyZLL)

596 Ben Sasse, you're our only hope!

-Cuckservatives

Posted by: Allahpundit at May 26, 2016 06:19 PM (FbUrh)

597 When did this place become such a "safe place"

And yes I understand the irony having gone the Facebook route of commentary.

Posted by: Allahpundit at May 26, 2016 06:21 PM (FbUrh)

598 You're a hoss, Ace (pardon the Texanism).

I rarely read the comments; nevertheless, please make it obvious (to people like me) when you're down here in Mordor on the Potomac. I'll happily buy you a round or ten.

Posted by: some asshole at May 26, 2016 06:22 PM (l9C+f)

599 Amazing, Ace ends up where I started and where I still am. Glad to see he has wormed his way out of the NRO joy boy black hole of lame.

Posted by: Awnree at May 26, 2016 06:25 PM (wrO39)

600 Posted by: Deno at May 26, 2016 06:14 PM (g3y2Q)

Bernie's a lifelong slacker, he'll be a dud in office. Not terribly worried about his socialist revolution. And frankly, corporate America in the Obama years has designated itself a cultural arbiter, pushing leftism. I wouldn't mind giving them a taste of it good and hard for a few years.

Being rich does not mean being good for capitalism.

Posted by: reform highlander at May 26, 2016 06:28 PM (jCH/T)

601 589
Don't worry guys once the general electorate gets word that Trump is not a real conservative, then it'll all unravel.



Trust me.

Posted by: Allahpundit at May 26, 2016 06:11 PM (FbUrh)

Too late. The Trumpatrons have been brainwashed using the same technique the leftist used to convince people that a man in a dress is a woman..that fracking causes "earthquakes"..that the BLM movement is about "fighting racism", etc, etc. Simply change the meaning of the words. Now Trump represents a "regular American", with "common sense"..even tho all evidence point to that not being true.Brainwashing is a hell of a drug.

Posted by: Mimzey at May 26, 2016 06:28 PM (aRUb8)

602 . Glad to see he has wormed his way out of the NRO joy boy black hole of lame.

Posted by: Awnree at May 26, 2016 06:25 PM (wrO39)

"It feels so good to give up." It's all so clear now...why didn't I see that before? It makes me want to form a circle with others and sing "This land is my land...this land is your land" Power to the people!!!

Posted by: Mimzey at May 26, 2016 06:32 PM (aRUb8)

603 587 So what happens if this e-mail server brings down Hillary before the general election? We maybe get Bernie by default, and moral qualms about Benghazi and Clinton corruption become moot. That happens and, yeah, voting against Trump gets way easier for the rest of us.


Posted by: reform highlander

You'd prefer a socialist. Got it.

Posted by: Dirks Strewn at May 26, 2016 06:33 PM (QdAXQ)

604
Re "There's a reason the "conservative movement," such as it is, failed. And it did fail. Let me propose, to the stunned silence of the crowd, that maybe conservatism is not at the moment an electorally-winning set of policies, and needs some fine-tuning and even some general rethinking."
Absolutely right. Totally agree. Political conservatism, i.e. conservatism as an ideological/political movement, has failed. I have heard some conservatives (I'm looking at you, big-shot pundits) say it has failed because it hasn't been "done" correctly. They sound exactly like Marxist trying to explain the failure of Marxism. It's baloney. Political conservatism has failed because, like Marxism, it doesn't and can't work in the real world.

As a way of ordering one's life--it does work. It works as a guiding philosophy, as a guide to living. But as a political movement--nope.

Posted by: Steve (a.ka. Ed Snate) at May 26, 2016 06:35 PM (8R5jF)

605 I've got nothing to sell you, I don't want either candidate. You presumably want to get more of us on board with Trump, though.


Posted by: reform highlander at May 26, 2016 06:16 PM (jCH/T)

That.

Posted by: Mimzey at May 26, 2016 06:35 PM (aRUb8)

606 591 587

So you would vote for a communist over a capitalist? Wow. Amazing some of you guys call yourselves conservative.

I vote vote for Hillary 10 times over before I vote for sanders. I can deal with corruption, I can't deal with Communism.


Posted by: Deno

You wont have to. You don't deal with Communism, Communism deals with you.

Posted by: Dirks Strewn at May 26, 2016 06:36 PM (QdAXQ)

607 You wont have to. You don't deal with Communism, Communism deals with you.



Posted by: Dirks Strewn at May 26, 2016 06:36 PM (QdAXQ)

You get to vote.
Once.

Posted by: Mimzey at May 26, 2016 06:37 PM (aRUb8)

608 Posted by: Igor at May 26, 2016 06:19 PM (hyZLL)

Amen.

If all you have to offer are threats about how awful the opposition will be, you don't have anything to offer. The Supreme Court is not gonna be a hostage the party loyal can use to coerce my behavior. I would rather be an exile in the wilderness than a perpetual captive.

My patriotism towards this country is purely nostalgic at this point, gratitude towards those before us. Don't see the urgency in saving the future of a country made entirely of two factions of hateful people that don't particularly care about it.

Posted by: reform highlander at May 26, 2016 06:41 PM (jCH/T)

609 That Ace is pragmatic enough to realize that whether anyone likes it or not, Trump is the only choice now to counter a real tyranny by Hillary Clinton. Not some pretend maybe gonna be dreamed by Ben Shapiro one night.

Which is why I still hang around here where other places I don't go anymore because despite reality, those people still think we all should stay home or let Bill Kristol and Mitt Romney sabotage our opportunity to stop Hillary Clinton.

It just amazes me that they're willing to take that chance and that that's some sort of principle or something.

Plus I firmly believe that by the end of 90 days of a Trump presidency there will be many naysayers that will be gobsmacked at how much he will have done to right the ship of state. (crossed fingers)

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That at May 26, 2016 06:45 PM (Xo1Rt)

610 Ace, I objected and object, strenuously, to the post you are now explaining away. I objected and object still more strenuously to the apparent abandonment of the other month's assertion that the ban-hammers were out for those who engaged in vulgar abuse, incivility, and ad hominem argument in the comments: which, as to that post and increasingly to this, is an utter sump.

I do not expect improvement, frankly. But may I at least point out one last thing? This argument of Rumsfeldian expediency, that you go into an election with the candidate you have, sits very oddly with the contemporaneous post, also by you, of "So the GOP Gave In to Obama on Transgendered Bathrooms ... Shock." It was the expediency policy, the, "well, it's a zero sum game and the other side are worse" notion, that gave us just those invertebrate eunuchs on the Hill about whom you and all of us are spitting mad.

Perhaps it is not only those with whom you are now disagreeing who would be well advised to step away from the election for a week and do some introspection?

Posted by: MarkhamShawPyle at May 26, 2016 06:49 PM (WlkUc)

611 Diversity of thought and freedom of expression are important. It's nice that Ace welcomes it and others should also. I personally don't see the point in kneecapping Trump, particularly when he's so willing to spout stuff without apparently thinking it through.

I had reluctantly concluded that I'd vote for whoever won the GOP nomination because letting Hillary get in was too big a risk. That even extended to Trump. Then he stupidly, weirdly, and nastily smeared Cruz's father with the National Enquirer story claiming Cruz Sr. was associated with Lee Harvey Oswald. That led me to think Trump was beyond nuts and couldn't control his psychotic behavior.

Now, I'm just in wait and see mode. I feel no obligation to defend Trump because he's not really committed to the GOP or its ideology. I feel no inclination to attack him because everybody I liked lost, and I'm not interested in helping Hillary. It's fun to read about his attacks on Hillary, and it's righteously amusing to read about his failings as a candidate.

In early November I'll look at the polls and decide if my vote could make a difference. If it might and Trump is still claiming he'll appoint conservative judges, then I'll probably vote for him with very low expectations of good things to come. If he's losing badly or winning handily, I'll still vote GOP down-ballot and then choose between Libertarian or skipping the presidential race.

Everybody has to make their own choice. I don't begrudge people deciding Trump is the lesser of two evils or a step too far. Having seen all my hopes for a big red wave in 2016 dashed, it doesn't seem right for me harangue other Republicans that still feel engaged in the campaign.

Posted by: Jill v2 at May 26, 2016 06:50 PM (73TVV)

612 Ace, ignore these people. Their numbers are insignificant and they do this every election. Some will vote Trump in the end, and some won't vote. Some never intend to vote, they just want attention.

A very few may vote Hillary, like Bill Kristol.

There will be people on the other side doing the apposite thing. None of them are worth all the keystrokes. In every presidential election about 35% of the electorate does not vote.

Posted by: Meremortal, Someone's French sucks at May 26, 2016 06:50 PM (3myMJ)

613 586 Cuck has absolutely no racist/racial conotations.

Mandigoing on the other hand, Yes.

To the pajama boys offended at the word Cuck, shame on you!
Posted by: Berserker at May 26, 2016 06:06 PM (FbUrh)
===============

Uh, huh. Sure. Say, what was your favorite article in StormFront this month?

Posted by: DriveBy at May 26, 2016 06:52 PM (C9Vc8)

614 I deeply resent that my choice is Trump or Hillary. I resent that operation chaos was effectively used against us Cruzers and the turnout of LIVs. Boo Freakin' Hoo.

I am not going to vote for Trump because he is morally reprehensible.
I attempt to restrain commentary toward him until after the election.



Posted by: Patina Awry Newt at May 26, 2016 06:57 PM (wp7uW)

615 The Good News: Trump came out today for the Keystone Pipeline.

The Bad News: What he said:

"I want the Keystone pipeline, but the people of the United States should be given a significant piece of the profits."

WUT?

This is a privately funded venture. The people deserve no profits from this venture at all. Zero. Nada. Zip. No true supporter of free markets and the Constitution would even consider taking a percentage of the profits. Here is just another instance of the Wacko Socialist/Fascist Prog Trump showing his true colors again.

Oh, ya and we are told he is such a great businessman and Capitalist. Not! Big fat NOT! Once again for the umpteenth time Trump obliterates his own meme. And we are supposed to hold our criticism? To have got to be kidding.

To ask that is down right Un-American.

Posted by: Unsk at May 26, 2016 07:30 PM (ItEIu)

616 Ace says: "maybe conservatism is not at the moment an electorally-winning set of policies"

SOCIAL conservatism is certainly a loser. The reason the transgender bathroom thing has traction is that social conservatives keep throwing sand under the tires.

Fiscal conservatism - not the kind being practiced now, but actual fiscal sanity - is a winner.

Posted by: Jason M at May 26, 2016 07:34 PM (Mc0GA)

617 Well, there are some unifying theories here.

That the liberalism that is modern race relations/economic theory/feminism/secularism is far more important that almost any other consideration, including Hillary winning. You can see it in the tranny bill and the "controversy" about a Bible. The Dem lite party is really just the same people and snazzy suits, where Trump is actually different.

Or it could be a bunch of politico people who think they're really important watch all their rules broken by someone who they consider to be beneath them and will go to their graves that way.

Or it could be that all the ideas related to "cuck", even if Trump never uses the word, are very uncomfortable and suggest a dereliction of duty on the part of a particular generation for the sake of money and easy morality.

Or it could be all of the above. And if any one of them are true, I would not expect #NeverTrump coverage to stop.

Posted by: AM at May 26, 2016 07:38 PM (bVGl6)

618 Here's the thing...

Those who fancy themselves as molders, shapers, and purveyors of mainstream conservatism are only kind of, sort of influential among those who self-identify as having some kind of center-right philosophy. They're even less influential when it comes to the culture as a whole. SO I'm not sure it even matters. The question no one is asking is: whither Bill Kristol?

Trump succeeds in almost exactly the same manner as Obama. In other words, it's not pouty-faced, sour-pussed convervative columnists who are needed for victory but the single most powerful voting-bloc in all America. I speak, here, of the LIVs. Whatever the merits of Trump the man or, even, Trump the candidate he is undoubtedly a man prepared for this hour.

He is not losing sleep or elections over this Inside Baseball bickering in the conservative ghetto.

Posted by: The Emperor Cletus Augustus at May 26, 2016 07:39 PM (BXWbP)

619 All of which is to say, by all means #neverTrump if you must. But it is all just vanity. Sound and fury signaling virtue. Etc, etc.

Posted by: The Emperor Cletus Augustus at May 26, 2016 07:42 PM (BXWbP)

620 I say this as a Walker/Perry/Jindal/Fiorina fan:

I have yet to hear any valid reasons why heavily-Principled Conservatives with their stash of amazing Conservative Principles are not trying to get as close to Trump as possible in every way in order to share their incredibly Patriotic Conservative Principles with him and be of some positive influence, since they claim he is so bereft of any.

You'd think those so worried about the Fate Of The Republic would do their best to save it, not stand by and watch it flounder, since that is their predicted outcome of a Trump presidency. We all know it's a certainty of any Clinton presidency. Your Cruz and Rubio votes were the first volley, not the last.

Allowing Bill Fucking Clinton and his Succubus back into the White House is simply not an option.


Posted by: ChampionCapua at May 26, 2016 07:47 PM (6wqLL)

621 I mean, also, that all this tut-tutting from the conservative commentariat, to say nothing of the hysterics from the mainstream media is not making any sort of visceral connection with the LIVs to the extent that they are even paying attention right now. But when the LIVs do tune in, I'm not sure certain that Trump is a sure loser. His poll numbers are not bad for where we are in the cycle. Especially when you consider the traditional handicaps of a Republican candidate.

Posted by: The Emperor Cletus Augustus at May 26, 2016 07:50 PM (BXWbP)

622 I don't think you owe anyone an apology, Ace. At least not to those who are even considering voting for Hillary.

We should at least give Trump a chance. He has already demonstrated that his SCOTUS appointments would be vastly better than Hillary's. Heck, if Hillary is elected, in four years elections might be irrelevant. We might have a SCOTUS that might make it illegal to be a Constitutional conservative or a Christian and live like it, a SCOTUS that would overturn just about any conservative victory.

Any "conservative" who would vote for Hillary is either nuts or not a conservative.

And I will NOT apologize for saying that.

Posted by: WannabeAnglican at May 26, 2016 08:01 PM (7GJ1L)

623 "But when the voters had the chance to vote for ONE man who has consistently stood up for their interests, in the court's and Congress, they chose instead to vote for the mountebank who shouted loudest."

I think this is the biggest reason I'm angry at Trump-supporters* who frequent conservative blogs; they pretended to be on the side of Constitutional conservatism when they needed allies against the GOPe, and now they openly disparage and ridicule those of us who didn't betray the ostensible purpose of opposing the GOPe in the first place, and smugly blackmail us with the forlorn hope that we won't be betrayed on Supreme Court picks.....just like the GOPe.

I've been without illusions regarding the GOPe for years, and that was bad enough......but damn its painful to lose one's illusions about the base.



Posted by: lowtech redneck at May 26, 2016 08:05 PM (KF8B+)

624 *I forgot to clarify: I meant people who supported in the Primaries even after he criticized Cruz for opposing rather than cooperating with the GOPe, not people who are reluctantly resigned to voting for him now. If the vote is close, I'll probably do the same thing......against Hillary, I would probably vote for Mitch McConnell as well.

Posted by: lowtech redneck at May 26, 2016 08:10 PM (KF8B+)

625 @623

It's possible the base was not as large as we had thought and that Trump's candidacy is base-expanding in the way of all celebrity candidacies. To the extent that there is a conservative base it seems to consist of two main groups: literary sorts that read lots of books by Burke, Kirk, and Buckley et al. and temperamental sorts who read less and are mainly practical sorts who do things like work at their own business and just generally react poorly to do-gooders and busybodies. At a guess, I'd say Trump is pulling heavily from the latter group and less well from the former. The main selling point is probably his ability to do well in a hostile media environment and an ability to induce hysterics among known enemies.

Posted by: The Emperor Cletus Augustus at May 26, 2016 08:17 PM (BXWbP)

626 Breitbart (now a Trump subsidiary) attacks Kristol as a "renegade Jew" seconded by Trump himself--obviously po'd by Kristol's quixotic search for a third way (w trope of loser-warmonger rather than neocon Zionist), but this is then reinforced by twitter and internet amens by Infowars and 88 club Stormtrooper fan club.

Adelson is giving his blood money to Trump as a communal payoff. a bribe to the prince--maybe it will work or maybe not. For a Jew to vote for Trump they have to have a hole in their head imo; non-Jews might consider very seriously how Trump devolves everything into an immediate personal transaction in which the goal is to establish a power relation of master-submission, backed by a willingness to personally level and humiliate his opponents.

There still is no coherent policy beyond bromides and the usual promises that will never be kept.

I think you guys will get more than you've bargained for in a Trump regime that looks increasingly likely given Ms. Clinton's old-style, old-school bureaucratic approach to campaigning (think of how many man-years went in to placing McAuliffe as a friendly governor in swing-state Virginia) and her absolute inability to establish a connection either 1-on-1 with those she doesn't know personally on the campaign trail (she is a different person with a known and friendly audience, really) or with the unseen audience beyond the camera eye. She is not an apt candidate even before you toss in the difficulties her squirrel-accumulating-chestnuts lifesteps choices now cause her: the turtle is protected by its shell but also immobilized by it--and the hare, despite Aesop's moral, has an advantage.

But again, go vote! A vote is a personal choice--in the end there is as much to be said about an intuitive reaction than a chain of syllogisms and ratiocinations constructed on the edifice of party affiliation.

Posted by: Paul Freedman at May 26, 2016 08:18 PM (gitaY)

627 "I have yet to hear any valid reasons why heavily-Principled Conservatives with their stash of amazing Conservative Principles are not trying to get as close to Trump as possible in every way in order to share their incredibly Patriotic Conservative Principles with him and be of some positive influence, since they claim he is so bereft of any. "
Posted by: ChampionCapua at May 26, 2016 07:47 PM (6wqLL)

I'm not in this group because a) I'm less of a social conservative than Bill Krystol, Erick Erickson, etc. and b) I can see a set of circumstances where I'd hold my nose & vote for this creep.

That said, I have no illusions that anyone is going to influence Trump by trying to share their principles with him. His guiding principle seems to be whatever suits his purposes at the moment. He's almost 70. That's not changing. He's not listening much to his own campaign team. He's certainly not going to listen to ideological conservatives whose beliefs he's never cared to study up on.

The one thing I hope we can all agree on is that we need to vote in as many principled, conservative Republicans as we can at all levels. That way if Trump wins, he may see it more in his interest to work with our team. If Trump loses, we'll have more people to try to limit the damage Hillary will surely do.

Posted by: Jill v2 at May 26, 2016 08:20 PM (73TVV)

628 To align oneself with Bill Kristol (and lesser degree Ben Shapiro) is unthinkable to me. Maybe if I was a lumbersexual cuckservative invited to the right parties in DC but I am not.

Amazing.

Posted by: oddnot says ~sigh~ at May 26, 2016 08:23 PM (g1MTt)

629 Trump plays chess while Ace is still playing solitaire (and still can't win)

Posted by: Ace is a brutish know nothing at May 26, 2016 08:27 PM (nGSDD)

630 @626

This:

"I think you guys will get more than you've bargained for in a Trump
regime that looks increasingly likely given Ms. Clinton's old-style,
old-school bureaucratic approach to campaigning (think of how many
man-years went in to placing McAuliffe as a friendly governor in
swing-state Virginia) and her absolute inability to establish a
connection either 1-on-1 with those she doesn't know personally on the
campaign trail (she is a different person with a known and friendly
audience, really) or with the unseen audience beyond the camera eye. She
is not an apt candidate even before you toss in the difficulties her
squirrel-accumulating-chestnuts lifesteps choices now cause her: the
turtle is protected by its shell but also immobilized by it--and the
hare, despite Aesop's moral, has an advantage."

The odd thing here is that this thing should be a layup for, say, Martin O'Malley or even Joe Biden or Elizabeth Warren (the media can work with these folks). Sanders has no chance and for that matter neither did Martin or Joe or Lizzie. But no, the Dems are stuck with their worst possible candidate which makes Trump possible.

That being the case, it doesn't seem like a bad idea for #neverTrump to evolve to #halfaloaf. That might be the smart thing for advancing their policy priorities under an administration that doesn't actually need them electorally but we conservative folk love to self-immolate for a noble cause so who knows...

Posted by: The Emperor Cletus Augustus at May 26, 2016 08:27 PM (BXWbP)

631 "Trump plays chess while Ace is still playing solitaire (and still can't win)
Posted by: Ace is a brutish know nothing at May 26, 2016 08:27 PM (nGSDD)"

Perhaps you're new here. Ace is presently committed to voting for Trump because he's decided Trump is a better choice than Hillary. He doesn't like Trump, but he loathes Hillary. He's trying to convince his readers to consider looking at it that way too.

Since you support Trump, perhaps you should encourage Ace rather than getting offended by his wording. Along the lines of getting more flies with honey than with vinegar......

Posted by: Jill v2 at May 26, 2016 08:33 PM (73TVV)

632 Since Ace called for introspection, it's probably time to ask the eternalquestion, Who Goes Nazi? http://goo.gl/9QHo30 #Hillary/Trump1936

Posted by: richard mcenroe at May 26, 2016 08:37 PM (Kucy5)

633 17
Sorta willowed - I break down that anti-Trump manifesto that CBD posted about yesterday - the one signed by a bunch authors.

(In nic)

Posted by: @votermom at May 26, 2016 03:05 PM

***

I read that and it was the most juvenile thing I've seen in a while. whiny and arrogant too. Kinda like something written by BLM or Oberlin SJWs. Sheesh.

Posted by: oddnot says ~sigh~ at May 26, 2016 08:39 PM (g1MTt)

634 #615 New. York. Democrat. We don't keep saying that just because it sounds funny.

Did Mr. Business Jeenyuss explain why the American people shouldn't get a cut of every other pipeline in the US as well?

Posted by: richard mcenroe at May 26, 2016 08:41 PM (Kucy5)

635 Ace support you

Posted by: Mobile87 at May 26, 2016 09:14 PM (eAhji)

636 Movement Conservatism is a unicorn.

Posted by: eman at May 26, 2016 09:28 PM (mR7Es)

637 Vote the way you want and say what you want.

I ask that folks also tell me why and what they think the consequences will be.

That is it.

I have limits and I certainly do respect those of others.

If you do not want to vote for Trump, it's cool, yo.

Posted by: eman at May 26, 2016 09:32 PM (mR7Es)

638 628 To align oneself with Bill Kristol (and lesser degree Ben Shapiro) is unthinkable to me. Maybe if I was a lumbersexual cuckservative invited to the right parties in DC but I am not.

Amazing.
Posted by: oddnot says ~sigh~ at May 26, 2016 08:23 PM (g1MTt)
====================

So, what was your favorite article in Storm Front?

Are you sick of hearing what the Jew York Times thinks about immigration?

Go on, tell me you don't have interracial porn bookmarked on your browser.

Posted by: DriveBy at May 26, 2016 09:34 PM (C9Vc8)

639 am i shadow banned here? My comments post, no one seems to see them.

Posted by: dzmath at May 26, 2016 10:01 PM (7nfma)

640 "I find this kind of unanimity of official opinion repulsive, as I always do. It always makes me angry. I don't know why. I just always has"

I think it's what CS Lewis was getting at in That Hideous Strength.

Posted by: Knemon at May 26, 2016 10:25 PM (hswHV)

641 I think 3 reasons the conservative movement has failed.

1. We're really bad at selling it. We have salesmen who couldn't sell a bucket of water to a man on fire.

2. It's so much easier to 'care' about people and signal that by telling everybody else to pay up.

3. People really want their 'free' goodies.

Posted by: Servius at May 26, 2016 10:30 PM (55a8b)

642 " Let me propose, to the stunned silence of the crowd, that maybe conservatism is not at the moment an electorally-winning set of policies, and needs some fine-tuning and even some general rethinking."

And of course, you're right ace. Conservatism will never be an electorally winning set of principles as long as there's enough illusion of normality that allows for the distribution of Free Shit. Only when the Gods of the Copybook headings actually arrive and begin the terror and slaughter will that illusion vanish.

And the best way to hasten their arrival is probably to vote for Hillary. Why not? If I was prepared to do that if the GOPe didn't nominate an actual conservative like Cruz, but someone like Rubio, why wouldn't I do the same now that they've nominated an obvious con artist who's already repudiating every position he used to sucker the Trumpkins?

Posted by: SDN at May 26, 2016 10:32 PM (m/qEg)

643 yeah, I don't go to RedState, I've always thought they set themselves up as some kind of leader or style-setter of conservative policy and thought and politics, but I saw an Eric Erickson article somewhere else and I was like, fuck, give it a rest, just shut up already. You lost. You made a calculated bet disinviting Trump to your thing because of (supposedly) his treatment of a fox news hostette (why anyone would defend ANY member of the media, fox or not, was always beyond me) and you guessed wrong. Now he's humiliated and pissed off that he actually has zero influence in the big big world and he's not going to stop ranting about it, ever, I guess. When Trump wins, he'll be right there, snipping at his heels like a little dog, saying "I TOLD YOU SO" at every chance and just generally being an asshole. Daily Caller is doing this too, and i have to wonder, just who is their audience? Who are they writing for? Are they just saying fuck it and throwing in the towel as a business because their guy lost.

I don't buy at all that Trump is any worse than any other politician. McCain was a fucking prick, vain, touchy, inauthentic, vacillitating, conservative when it suited him and bashing conservatives when he felt the need. Romney was a jackass who was just more gentlemanly about it: the guy invented obamacare for christ sake, and you want to tell me TRUMP isn't a real conservative??

The thing about Trump is like Lincoln said about Grant: I can't spare him, the man fights. I'm sick of McCain refusing to bring up Rev Wright or Romney refusing to bring up the myriad sins of obama so both could lose in a "classy", fastidiously prissy way. Well, Trump won't do that. He'll call hillary on everything, and it's about fucking time. I'm sick of pulling punches. Bush probably only got re-elected because the Swiftboaters did his dirty work for him. Well, Trump's going to do it himself, and god bless him. I have been WAITING for someone to tell the press to get fucked for what they is a "gotcha", for someone to tell all the SJWs and PC fuckers to eat shit and like it.

Everyone says "I don't like the guy, but we need to control the SCOTUS" etc. Well, I like him a damn sight more than I liked McCain or Romney, or Dole, or GHWB for that matter. Would you really be happier with Rubio, or god forbid Cruz up there, losing in fine GOP fashion because they would refuse to call hillary out? Or Perry or Jeb or any of the shitty campaigners who fell by the wayside? I present to you that ONLY Trump could beat hillary, and god bless him.

Trump's a ballcock, and a heart of gold,
A lad of life, an imp of fame;
Of parents good, of fist most valiant.
I kiss his dirty shoe, and from heart-string
I love the lovely bully.

Posted by: docweasel at May 26, 2016 11:02 PM (XxzcU)

644 >Was there a neverMitt movement, hell no there wasn't.

Why yes there was by the same #NeverTrump stalwarts today Erick Erickson, George Will etc., of course it was called #NotMitt http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2011/11/08/not-mitt-romney-for-republican-nominee.html now that was 2011 and once he won the whole shebang they were all in for YOU to ignore their previous actions and get the voting booth for Mitten.

Posted by: JadedByPolitics at May 26, 2016 11:10 PM (jSlyo)

645 Ace sez:

"I can't tell you how many people answered my question 'Are we now all on Team Hillary?' with the ego-based reasoning, 'Yeah, well maybe when we said #NeverTrump we really meant it.' Oh? You said it, ergo it is binding forever? Well that's a terrifically reasoned position that certainly has nothing to do with ego, emotion, wounded pride, and an affront to one's tribal privileges.

Whatever, Ace. You said you would support Hillary over Trump yourself. This is an attempt to justify your own switch. If a politician did what you did, you'd mock them for flip-flopping. If it were a Republican, you'd be calling for a primary.

You have no principles, it seems. You are a rank hypocrite. And we can't take you at your word.

You and Trump were made for each other.

#NeverHillary #NeverTrump

Posted by: Demosthenes at May 26, 2016 11:30 PM (9V0rz)

646 "But you know why I'm even political at all? Because of Bill Clinton and his repulsive Lady Macbeth wife."

You mean the woman you said you'd support instead of Trump? She made you political because you so despised her? And then you pledged to vote for her over Trump (if you even voted at all), before going back on your own word like a mewling bitch?

Doing it wrong, you are.

Posted by: Demosthenes at May 26, 2016 11:32 PM (9V0rz)

647 " 466 387
"If Congress won't remove him from office, what patriot will step up and do that if, if, he oversteps his mandate as president, his constitution-mandated authority as president, I should say.

If he overstepts that, how do we get him out of office? And I don't think there is a legal means available. I think it will be a terrible, terrible position the American people will be in to get Trump out of office, because you won't be able to do it through Congress."
--Brad Thor

Interesting. I wonder if he has ever said anything similar about Obama, who has been overstepping his authority from Day 1?"

Thor would have been arrested and charged, even while Obama was just a candidate in 2008. Mull that one. It's hard to see how equal protection and the Rule of Law exist on American soil ever again. Would Loretta Lynch prosecute Thor is he assassinated Trump? Maybe. Would she prosecute Bill Clinton if he assassinated Trump? No. The game is over already. Democracy lost long ago. How that could possibly be blamed on Trump would require such a stunted view of reality it is hard to conceive.

As to the #nevertrump deadenders, they mostly are at obscure websites and elicit little more than eyerolls from most conservatives let alone Republicans. The #nt movement has a competitive religious fervor wherein the cultists strive to show how they are the better #nevertrumpers. If these clowns go and are replaced by manifold others who are not ludicrous assholes we should celebrate. It appears to be happening.

Just because it was good for a laugh: Erick Erickson appeared on Katie Couric's Bloomberg broadcast to discuss #nevertrumpism, The Pure Version, about 48 hours before it was revealed she had altered the gun ownership story in a malignant, dishonest, should-be-career-ending way. Good timing there.

It's actually time to ignore these people. Yes, it is obnoxious when one gets dragged onto something like Katie Live in Pyongyang to play concern troll, but their numbers are tiny and dwindling and threads such as this one just hand dying voices a tiny megaphone. Let them go. Most of them were a major part of the problem that created the freakshow that is the GOP. This accident isn't worth the rubbernecking.

Posted by: Trump poisoned my cat at May 27, 2016 12:16 AM (Z4+eg)

648 The most insulting is that Trump voters are dumb. Read it every day on T. These sanctimonious hard-liners against Trump are losing. And yes, ego is involved. I don't want their empires to go down in flames. But maybe they will after all. Put all their eggs in the conservative basket & that doesn't sell in 2016.

Posted by: Lisa at May 27, 2016 12:22 AM (gxJ5D)

649 RE: "'Yeah, well maybe when we said #NeverTrump we really meant it.' Oh? You
said it, ergo it is binding forever? Well that's a terrifically
reasoned position that certainly has nothing to do with ego, emotion,
wounded pride, and an affront to one's tribal privileges."

Well the reason why people say "yeh, we really meant it" was because we'd thought it through very carefully, weighed the worst outcomes to test our theory of Never, and then explained, very methodically and persistently, over and over and over, for many months, our reasoned position against Trump.

And now we're saying "yep -- we meant it -- it wasn't a joke, or histrionics, or idle threat -- it was real."

I guess -- for some -- it *was* histrionics or idle threat, and they hadn't reasoned it out and they hadn't weighed the worst possible outcomes, and said "yep, in light of these worst possible outcomes, it's still better for him to not get elected."

And that's fine.

But . . . we really meant it. Because we'd really thought about it.

The good news is that we were assured that it didn't matter, we weren't really needed, and Trump had this cold. I always assumed that he and his supporters believed that the millions of Democrats and not-voters who would be voting for Trump would make up for the millions of conservatives-who-don't-vote-for-liberals [and have demonstrated this in spades with McCain and Romney], and the few RINOS who will muster up the integrity to not vote for Trump because they think he's kinda low-class and tawdry.

It's going to be interesting to see if this is the case. I don't know. I'm dubious. But I'll be watching with great interest.

Posted by: Igor at May 27, 2016 12:27 AM (hyZLL)

650 I won't vote for Hillary under any circumstances.

But I sure as hell won't vote for Trump either.

Look at what Trump did to Susanna Martinez in New Mexico. Because she would not fall into line dutifully, he attacked her and denounced her as the source of New Mexico's problems.

This is not an aberration. This is what he has done since the start of his campaign. And now he is doing it even though he has already won the nomination.

President Trump will spent his four or eight years actively attacking his opponents on the Right in an effort to destroy any dissent in the Republican Party -- and to destroy the Conservative movement outright. It won't be an ideological purge, but it will be a purge of all who dare to oppose the Dear Leader. All the energy people on the Right ought to be spending on persuading the body politic of the value of our views will instead be spent on surviving the onslaughts of a President nominally of our political party.

Under a President Clinton, we would at least be able to focus our energies on opposing her policies and promoting our own. If that leads to a renewed Republican Congressional majority in 2018 (after whatever losses we suffer in Congress in 2016) and eventually to second President Clinton saying, "The era of Big Government is over," that's to me a far preferable outcome to constant attacks from the Republican Party on my refusal to kowtow to President Trump.

Posted by: stuiec at May 27, 2016 01:00 AM (G/C31)

651 You drooling imbeciles who decided that "no more brown people" was the hill to die on are going to get what you asked for good and hard.

Posted by: DriveBy at May 27, 2016 01:45 AM (C9Vc8)

652 Word to stuiec.

"If we must have an enemy at the head of Government, let it be one whom
we can oppose, and for whom we are not responsible, who will not involve
our party in the disgrace of his foolish and bad measures."
Alexander Hamilton

Posted by: Igor at May 27, 2016 01:58 AM (hyZLL)

653 Thew time to have stopped Trump was last September-October, before Paris and San Bernardino, when any of a number of GOP candidates could have spoken forthrightly about immigration and globalization, without looking opportunistic. But, none did, presumably on orders from their donors and/or fear of the media if they were not politically correct.

Trump did so and in that sense had the smarts, courage, call it what you will--he earned the nomination in a few days last fall when he was the only candidate who spoke from the heart to what everyone was worried about but too cowed to say.

The time to have stopped was after the Nevada caucuses when Trump not only won but got a plurality of Hispanic votes. But for the hard to impress, two weeks later when he skunked Rubio in Florida and swept Illinois against the entire Illinois GOP. Everything after March 16 has been just free support to the Democrats.

Posted by: mhjhnsn at May 27, 2016 03:19 AM (uKxRL)

654 @ 652

Yeah, you might not want to cite that quote before you look at what happened to Hamilton's Federalists. They never won another presidential or congressional election after he said that, and eventually folded into the Whigs. Who also aren't around anymore.

Not saying this as a criticism. I hate Trump, and I'm not voting for him either. But we have to prepare ourselves for the possibility that just as Obama is the modern-day Woodrow Wilson, Trump will be the modern-day Andrew Jackson.

Posted by: Demosthenes at May 27, 2016 03:30 AM (9V0rz)

655 @493 jwest

"Not the type of judgment we need in office."

Riggghttt. Cruz has solid credentials and has proven to be in the conservative realm closer than any other candiate. He makes a mistake in the campaign and his quikcly dismissed? Hope you hold all the others to such standards. Has Trump proven anything he has accused others or lying off the cuff is to be commended?

Posted by: Buckeye Abroad at May 27, 2016 04:09 AM (E8UjU)

656 @531 Richard McEnroe

"The death of a republic is carried in its mobs, and the mobs have been awakened."

And when the choice is left to a mob, they will choose Barabbas every time.

Posted by: Buckeye Abroad at May 27, 2016 04:18 AM (E8UjU)

657 "You drooling imbeciles who decided that "no more brown people" -

Idiot. We like brown people. What simply believe that if we are going to have immigration into this country, it should be orderly and follow some rules. And that those rules should be enforced.

What's your address? I'm putting out fliers in Mexico City this weekend - Party at your house. Free food and beer. Free women too.

Posted by: Fen at May 27, 2016 05:30 AM (gFa18)

658 Although I am a#NeverTrump supporter, I thought the main point of your article was sound, that many conservative opinion outlets should present the pro-Trump side of the argument. The American Spectator does that and I regularly go to that site just to read the pro-Trump arguments. I have found none of those arguments convincing on any level but I still want to read what they have to say.

However, you lost me when you finished your post by saying, "There's a reason the "conservative movement," such as it is failed. And it did fail. Let me propose, to the stunned silence of the crowd, that maybe conservatism is not at the moment an electorally-winning set of policies, and needs some fine-tuning and even some general rethinking."

Such a statement makes it clear that you see an electoral setback as reason enough to start hitting the delete button on principles. Which conservative principles should we toss overboard, fidelity to the original intent of the Constitution, limited government, anti-authoritarianism, free market capitalism?? Is current popularity now the single standard by which political principles should be judged?

What an embarrassingly weak admission to make.

I'll leave you with an excerpt from Robert Bolt's play "A Man For All Seasons."

"I will not give in because I oppose it - I do - I. Is there no single sinew in the midst of this that serves no appetite of Norfolk's but is just, just, Norfolk? There is! Give that some exercise my lord! Because as you'll go before your maker in a very ill condition! And he'll have to think that somewhere back along your pedigree - a bitch got over the wall."

Posted by: Joel at May 27, 2016 05:33 AM (N5wlQ)

659 Au contraire. Ace is correct when he says "There's a reason the 'conservative movement,' such as it is failed. And
it did fail. Let me propose, to the stunned silence of the crowd, that
maybe conservatism is not at the moment an electorally-winning set of
policies, and needs some fine-tuning and even some general rethinking."

There are many in the conservative movement who have championed a more populist position on trade. Gary Bower will sometimes go off on Rose, and did so a few Sundays back, that Republicans can't keep fighting the Dems with the same tired old arguments on free trade.

The Dems ALWAYS run as populists. Even when they don't mean it. They ALWAYS vote against bad trade deals, except for the handful of safe-seat Dems needed to make sure the deals pass. Dems get the deals their pay-masters want, while the Repubs get the blame.

Not only do the "conservative" Rinos refuse to fight (they are all labeled as racists anyway), they refuse to make a compelling argument. When they do make an argument, it amounts to "cheap products are good, even if you lose your job."


Posted by: Great Reagan's Ghost at May 27, 2016 06:21 AM (kfoLf)

660 Look up the video "I vote against you" by Pat Condell? and it sums up EXACTLY why I would vote for Trump.

Posted by: DavidM at May 27, 2016 08:46 AM (S2ZVH)

661 > You said it, ergo it is binding forever?

"I say what I mean. Or at least I mean what I say. That's the same thing, you know."

"Not the same thing a bit!"

Posted by: Original Roy at May 27, 2016 09:00 AM (fASYn)

662 What bothers me and as Mark Levin keeps pointing out, WHERE WERE THE NEVER TRUMP PEOPLE WHEN WE HAD TED CRUZ? Now they are telling us day after day how bad Trump is'; and like you say Ace, we have no other choice!! Damn, damn, damn all of those who did not lend an iota of support to a Constitutional Conservative. As Dennis Prager has repeated the saying of I can't remember who, "Better is the enemy of good."
We had very good, Cruz, and since he wasn't perfect enough now we have Trump, the most flawed human being! I cannot stand listening to his dodgey too much information about a subject that he is NOT being questioned about. How does anyone interview him with a straight face without saying Stop the bullshitting just answer my Fuc----Question!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: Marlene at May 27, 2016 09:32 AM (+5kT0)

663 On target commentary about the #neverTrump people. Having yawned through the brief window when Cruz might have surged, they now tell us putting Hillary in office is the only way to save Conservatism! Of course these are the same people who have repeatedly avowed the Republican Party is conservative....

Posted by: TomS. at May 27, 2016 10:45 AM (9/QQm)

664 "11
Yeah, I can't understand the people who think that Trump will be allowed
by the media and the establishment to institute Fascism.



Well, I can understand it. They don't know what Fascism is."

Wont be fascism, although not very far from its milder version, mafiarule. Think Berlusconi in Italy. As a Norwegian, I do know what fascism looked like to my grandparents, and it wont be that. But if he is really going to deport 11, or to be realistic, 5 million people in a rush, he needs the logistics for it. Thats a huge operation, especially in tandem with building the wall. I have yet to see even a logistical overdraft on how he plans to do it, how many extra government sector jobs that will take.

Posted by: Fnord at May 27, 2016 11:40 AM (ZgRru)

665 PS: I would have thought that his dropping of the Nuremberg principles of warfare would be something of a problem for the christian army contigent.

Posted by: Fnord at May 27, 2016 11:41 AM (ZgRru)

666 At the risk of poking the hornets nest; lets say you're right.

So we get behind making government bigger and more expansive; removing free press and free speech rights when it offends our dear leader; adding tariffs and new means of revenue generation to the government and not cutting any entitlements.

And tell everyone they can use any damned bathroom they want... because conservatism is failing; we need to embrace big government authoritarian liberalism.

...

One question. Why the heck are we NOT supporting Hillary if that is the path to "Make America Great Again"?
What is the reasoning why a liberal with an (R) is massively superior to a liberal with a (D) when we're openly stating that maybe giving up Conservatism entirely and having both parties be big government authoritarian liberals 100% of the time is the goal?

Why bother?

Posted by: gekkobear at May 27, 2016 11:55 AM (FIMzP)

667 "PS: I would have thought that his dropping of the Nuremberg principles of warfare would be something of a problem for the christian army contigent."

That would be because the "Nuremburg principles of warfare" were always bullshit on steroids. Just an early form of virtue signalling by the victors.

Posted by: SDN at May 27, 2016 01:08 PM (m/qEg)

668 In re 643, supra: An appropriate quotation from Hank Five's Play, there: a lying, thieving, conniving coward expressing his adoration of a second-generation usurper known for a wasted youth and most famous for persecutions at home and pointless and unprovoked aggression abroad solely in his own personal interest.

Fortunately, I have always been a Yorkist.

Posted by: MarkhamShawPyle at May 27, 2016 01:25 PM (WlkUc)

669 Ace, you're my hero.

Posted by: ZonToro at May 27, 2016 01:58 PM (WOuQ/)

670 You almost had me going with your non-apology-apology until you suggested that conservatism might be a bad bet. Conservatism, like entropy, is a force of nature. You can't fine tune it (or rough tune it) to be more palatable. It can only be accepted or rejected. Political conservatives seek to preserve what is good, while working to fix what is bad with the least possible upset. Seems like a natural winner to me, but the fact is that too many people want bad things that make their life easier like abortion, mind altering drugs, and government benefits.

Posted by: Immolate at May 27, 2016 03:25 PM (R1oMt)

671 Ace, if I may disagree, the real conservative movement (embodied, in my opinion, by the Tea Party movement and in politicians such as Ted Cruz and Mike Lee) did not fail; it was serially betrayed by what you call the "conservative movement, such as it is" - a bunch of lying usurpers from Mitch McConnell right on down to Scott Brown and Mario Rubio, all of whom promised conservative purity long enough to gain power and then betrayed the country and the Constitution at nearly every turn.

So yes, true Constitutional Conservatism lost ground to the latest gaggle of lying pretenders, but I contend it is alive and we must continue to fight not only the socialist horde but also the snake oil peddlers masquerading on our side.

That includes putting Trump in the White House to prevent something unimaginably worse.

Posted by: Kaner at May 27, 2016 04:03 PM (3Duad)

672 "One question. Why the heck are we NOT supporting Hillary if that is the path to "Make America Great Again"?
What is the reasoning why a liberal with an (R) is massively superior to a liberal with a (D) when we're openly stating that maybe giving up Conservatism entirely and having both parties be big government authoritarian liberals 100% of the time is the goal?

Why bother?
Posted by: gekkobear at May 27, 2016 11:55 AM (FIMzP)"

Well, you might want the person who will actually use the phrase "Islamic extremists" (unlike Hillary) or who thinks ISIS is more dangerous to the US than man-made global warming (like Trump).

Only reason to vote against Trump is if you think he's completely unhinged and might start a nuclear war. I don't think that at all, but I could understand it.

The idea that they are the same is, no offense, not very bright. Even Joe Manchion (Dem senator of West Virginia) and Hillary aren't that similar, let alone Trump and Hillary.

#AlwaysTrump

Posted by: trickamsterdam at May 27, 2016 05:07 PM (zMN+i)

673 @671 (Kaner)

You Cruz people seem to think that he simply didn't explain himself well-enough. Actually, he explained himself perfectly well, and the people rejected him (and his ideas).

People reject the idea that you must have a high level of immigration and "free" trade, if it lowers wages. They don't care if that's a conservative (or libertarian) "principle." Understand?

PS- Scott Brown did not sell himself as a "conservative purist," but as a centrist, similar to the way Trump is. Conservative purity sells precisely no where.

#AlwaysTrump

Posted by: trickamsterdam at May 27, 2016 05:20 PM (zMN+i)

674 @673 "Understand?"

I do. Perfectly.

Posted by: Kaner at May 27, 2016 05:54 PM (UWSKz)

675 NeverTrump means NeverTrump.

Just because you have no principles or honor Ace and your word is worthless. Doesn't mean others don't stick to theirs.

#NEVERTRUMP

Posted by: Trump to lose in a landslide at May 27, 2016 10:52 PM (/9pFG)

676 "It would be a useful inquiry to discover why that occurred, instead of just saying, as liberals do, 'Republicans are stupid, racist, and afraid of The Other.'"

John Hayward (Doc Zero) already covered that long ago:

http://preview.tinyurl.com/hazfeeb

and

http://preview.tinyurl.com/h4bbpuy

Posted by: Cynewulf at May 28, 2016 12:55 PM (Jiexw)

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