The Minimum Wage: How To Prove It Is Bad For Our Economy (CBD)

Don Beaudroux over at Cafe Hayek suggests an interesting minimum wage experiment. I am not sure that he has designed it perfectly, and some of the commenters suggest modifications, but the premise is interesting, if completely unworkable in today's childish political environment.

Readers urge me: "Why not regard minimum wages as social experiments? If they succeed, great. If not, they can be undone." The more intelligent of these readers understand that real-world minimum-wage legislation is instituted for political and not objectively scientific reasons. But these readers hold out hope that the political zebras who alone can inflict minimum wages on workers will lose their stripes and begin to be more "scientific" about enacting minimum wages.

It's an interesting thought experiment, and it also exposes the lack of intellectual rigor on the Left. Or more precisely, the conscious rejection of empiricism in the form of clear economic axioms. It is the minimum wage more than any other progressive shibboleth that convinces me that they are uninterested in reform, and very interested in power. That their power comes at the expense of real people is unimportant to them.

Here is a 10+ year old blog post from Coyote Blog describing his own experience with the minimum wage, but this time from the other end of the age spectrum. We mostly see the minimum wage as a hindrance to hiring teenagers and people entering the work force for the first time (i.e. no experience), but he hires retired folks with lots of life experience. The numbers are dated, but the points he makes are valid, since Obama has been unable to repeal the law of supply and demand.

Addendum Because apparently nobody is reading the linked article....

Here's a scientific experiment that I propose: abolish the minimum wage completely and for a long stretch of time and then see what happens over time.

And there's more!

If minimum-wage opponents (such as me) are correct, we'll see over time that elimination of the minimum wage increases the employment of low-skilled workers, as well as eliminates or greatly reduces the differences between the unemployment rates of black and Hispanic low-skilled workers and the unemployment rates of white low-skilled workers. We'll see a slight reduction in the incomes of middle-class households and increases in the incomes of lower-income households. We'll see also fewer people in their 20s and 30s who have never gained on-the-job experience and skills.
Of course, if minimum-wage opponents (such as me) are incorrect, then we'll not see these consequences. A much-more-solid scientific basis than what we have today will thereby be created upon which to found the case for minimum wages.

Posted by: Open Blogger at 01:48 PM

Comments

(Jump to bottom of comments)

1 First?

Posted by: OK, Thanks, Bye at April 26, 2016 01:46 PM (ucB75)

2 "...since Obama has been unable to repeal the law of supply and demand."

Lord knows he's tried!!

Posted by: Lizzy at April 26, 2016 01:47 PM (NOIQH)

3 Aren't Union Wages tied to the minimum wage? Won't all those go up too?

Posted by: OK, Thanks, Bye at April 26, 2016 01:47 PM (ucB75)

4 So let's run the experiment backwards: eliminate the minimum wage and
promise to keep it eliminated for, say, at least ten years. We'll then
be able to get a much truer and fuller sense of the employment
consequences of minimum-wage legislation.

If only.
I know one thing that would happen: Democrats would devise all sorts of (additional) *mandated* employee benefits for hourly employees to compensate for potentially low wages.

Posted by: Lizzy at April 26, 2016 01:50 PM (NOIQH)

5
3 Aren't Union Wages tied to the minimum wage? Won't all those go up too?
Posted by: OK, Thanks, Bye at April 26, 2016 01:47 PM (ucB75)

-----------

They are and they will.

Posted by: Soona at April 26, 2016 01:50 PM (Fmupd)

6 I'm sure the dem dream team of Sanders/Warren would have a maximum wage plan

Posted by: Tinfoilbaby at April 26, 2016 01:51 PM (1Jfoj)

7 >>Aren't Union Wages tied to the minimum wage? Won't all those go up too?

Yes, which is why they are working so hard for this (despite also asking to be exempt from it).

Posted by: Lizzy at April 26, 2016 01:51 PM (NOIQH)

8 Minimum wages are emotional, not rational, exercises.

Posted by: *Mikey NTH - Pox Vobiscum - Get Your Literate Latinate Curses from the Outrage Outlet! at April 26, 2016 01:51 PM (hLRSq)

9 I had moved past earning minimum wage by the time I was 16. New skills in different jobs and showing up on time with a good attitude go a long way in making more money

Posted by: Buzzsaw at April 26, 2016 01:51 PM (tf9Ne)

10 Jerry Brown flat out admitted that an increase in the minimum wage made no economic sense and then signed it into law anyway.

Posted by: Duke Lowell at April 26, 2016 01:52 PM (kTF2Z)

11 >>I had moved past earning minimum wage by the time I was 16. New skills
in different jobs and showing up on time with a good attitude go a long
way in making more money.

Exactly. Minimum wage is not supposed to be a living wage - it's for entry-level jobs that one would typically hold for a time before moving up.

Posted by: Lizzy at April 26, 2016 01:53 PM (NOIQH)

12 If you're imposing a minimum wage, why not make it $100/hr?
What's wrong with that?
Why is that amount any more absurd than $15/hr?
Minimum wage laws distort the real supply/demand relationship of labor. Why don't leftists understand this?

Posted by: freedomfirst at April 26, 2016 01:54 PM (kPeSM)

13 The minimum wage is $0/hour and always will be.

Posted by: dfbaskwill at April 26, 2016 01:54 PM (zllbf)

14
8 Minimum wages are emotional, not rational, exercises.
Posted by: *Mikey NTH - Pox Vobiscum - Get Your Literate Latinate Curses from the Outrage Outlet! at April 26, 2016 01:51

----------------------

We have become a nation bound to emotions and feelings. Gone are the days of facts and laws.

Posted by: Soona at April 26, 2016 01:54 PM (Fmupd)

15 Set the minimum wage to $500 per hour, that way, almost everybody gets a raise!

Posted by: Vashta Nerada at April 26, 2016 01:55 PM (Qvgg/)

16 17th

Posted by: AmeriDan at April 26, 2016 01:55 PM (FMZoz)

17 "I had moved past earning minimum wage by the time I was 16. New skills in different jobs and showing up on time with a good attitude go a long way in making more money

Posted by: Buzzsaw at April 26, 2016 01:51 PM"

That was my experience too.

Posted by: sock_rat_eez at April 26, 2016 01:55 PM (gUoN4)

18 New skills in different jobs and showing up on time with a good attitude go a long way in making more money
Posted by: Buzzsaw at April 26, 2016 01:51 PM (tf9Ne)

That's racist talk.

Posted by: BLMer at April 26, 2016 01:55 PM (oTWAX)

19 "Minimum wages are emotional, not rational, exercises."

Like so much of the left.

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at April 26, 2016 01:56 PM (LA7Cm)

20 If you gave everyone one million dollars, would anyone be any better off?

Posted by: Tim in GA at April 26, 2016 01:56 PM (ZpQ2k)

21 >>Jerry Brown flat out admitted that an increase in the minimum wage made no economic sense and then signed it into law anyway.

Yep, because someone else will have to deal with the mess.

Posted by: Lizzy at April 26, 2016 01:56 PM (NOIQH)

22 So the wage of consent will be 15?

Posted by: OK, Thanks, Bye at April 26, 2016 01:57 PM (ucB75)

23 I wish they'd raise the minimum wage to $500 an hour so I could become a millionaire.

Posted by: Dr Spank at April 26, 2016 01:57 PM (BaFJt)

24 How about we just dick punch anyone who suggests an increase in the minimum wage because we know it economically destructive- mKay?

Posted by: Marcus T at April 26, 2016 01:57 PM (O0lVq)

25 Readers urge me: "Why not regard minimum wages as social experiments? If they succeed, great. If not, they can be undone.

***********

Oh wow----this is so bad, but it's how the Dems operate on a grander scale--not just this commenter.

Posted by: Unfettered Power at April 26, 2016 01:57 PM (mcm0N)

26 "Minimum wages are emotional, not rational, exercises."

Like so much of the left.

===

And the Right.

Posted by: Bigby's Banjo Plucking Fingers at April 26, 2016 01:58 PM (3ZtZW)

27 We talk all the time about the minimum wage, but never seem to get to the heart of the subject:

By what twisted imagination did we reach the point where a state or nation assumes the right to set that minimum wage, as long as it is above zero?

Posted by: Vashta Nerada at April 26, 2016 01:58 PM (Qvgg/)

28 Just look at how the other ridiculous labor laws have harmed the country. Our hard working, business-building enterprisers are already hobbled by oppressive 8-hour work days (depending on the state) and 40-hour work weeks. The overtime is sinking the entire economy! Emotional and irrational for sure but also enterprise hobbling.

Posted by: RioBravo at April 26, 2016 01:58 PM (NUqwG)

29 If you gave everyone one million dollars, would anyone be any better off?

====

Our current millionaires would be.

Posted by: Bigby's Banjo Plucking Fingers at April 26, 2016 01:59 PM (3ZtZW)

30 Yes, which is why they are working so hard for this (despite also asking to be exempt from it).

Posted by: Lizzy

I believe it was the unions primarily protesting at UC Berkley for $15 an hour. Berkley then announces that they have to lay off 500 people.

Posted by: Cheri at April 26, 2016 01:59 PM (oiNtH)

31 I wonder how the protesters will feel about the minimum wage when they lose their jobs to a machine.

Wanna bet they will try to pass a law that limits or outlaws their use of technology?

Posted by: Marcus T at April 26, 2016 01:59 PM (O0lVq)

32 9 I had moved past earning minimum wage by the time I was 16. New skills in different jobs and showing up on time with a good attitude go a long way in making more money
Posted by: Buzzsaw at April 26, 2016 01:51 PM (tf9Ne)

Same. Amazing concept, isn't it ?

Posted by: BLMer at April 26, 2016 01:59 PM (oTWAX)

33 Minimum wages are emotional, not rational, exercises.

Posted by: *Mikey NTH - Pox Vobiscum - Get Your Literate Latinate Curses from the Outrage Outlet! at April 26, 2016 01:51 PM (hLRSq)

Which describes everything about the left. Empty headed emotion

Posted by: TheQuietMan at April 26, 2016 01:59 PM (493sH)

34 The minimum wage is a tremendous issue - Big Impact. Too much for Lyin' Ted & 1/38th Kasich - Minimizers that never made a job.

I will Make America Great Again & Win -Maximum- Wages For All Americans

Posted by: Donald J Trump's Twitter at April 26, 2016 01:59 PM (10hEu)

35 From each according to his ability, to each according to his need...

Posted by: tu3031 at April 26, 2016 02:00 PM (8WyYX)

36
Fox Business Headline - Hillary Clinton slams Trump for his wealth.

Because she and Slick Willie are just getting by on minimum wage and not even the $15 an hour kind.

Posted by: TheQuietMan at April 26, 2016 02:00 PM (493sH)

37 Our current millionaires would be.
Posted by: Bigby's Banjo Plucking Fingers at April 26, 2016 01:59 PM (3ZtZW)

*****

How so?

Posted by: Tim in GA at April 26, 2016 02:00 PM (ZpQ2k)

38 Look, even Jerry Brown knows that minimum wage is bad economically and damaging to business, they just figure its worth the cost. They think that overall its so beneficial that it is worth a few businesses shutting down and prices going up.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 26, 2016 02:01 PM (39g3+)

39 16 17th
Posted by: AmeriDan

Missed it by "that much". Of course, I comment at the current minimum wage so can't be expected to produce quality results for any amount less than 15 bucks an hour.

FIGHT FOR FIFTEEN!!!

Posted by: AmeriDan at April 26, 2016 02:01 PM (FMZoz)

40 Oops. Off.

Posted by: jsg at April 26, 2016 02:01 PM (oTWAX)

41
First there was the elbow dicking and I said nothing. Then there were the atomic wedgies and again I said nothing...

Posted by: Bruce With a Wang! at April 26, 2016 02:01 PM (iQIUe)

42 So....I have a particularly jaundiced Republican friend who says the Dems aren't interested in this idea working.....they are interested in more voters becoming dependent on Big Government. He's probably right. Good luck to any Republican politician that makes reference to that eventuality.

Posted by: Unfettered Power at April 26, 2016 02:02 PM (mcm0N)

43 How so?

===

Money flows towards people who know what to do with it. Money flies from those who know nothing of its value. Thus, our current millionaires would own all of the others' millions within 2 years or so.

Posted by: Bigby's Banjo Plucking Fingers at April 26, 2016 02:02 PM (3ZtZW)

44 Readers urge me: "Why not regard minimum wages as social experiments? If they succeed, great. If not, they can be undone.

***********

Oh wow----this is so bad, but it's how the Dems operate on a grander scale--not just this commenter.

Posted by: Unfettered Power

Which only further underscores the problem we're in; the government was never supposed to be able to have the power to conduct such things.

We're now having to argue the economic value of min wage laws without having enough breath left to argue for cutting back the size and scope of the Leviathan.

WASF

Posted by: weft cut-loop at April 26, 2016 02:03 PM (OcD4G)

45 I suspect that democrats continually push to increase the minimum wage so that increasing numbers of LIVs become wards of the state, beholden to the party that pays their housing, food, and telephone bills.

Posted by: Vashta Nerada at April 26, 2016 02:03 PM (Qvgg/)

46 3 Aren't Union Wages tied to the minimum wage? Won't all those go up too?
Posted by: OK, Thanks, Bye at April 26, 2016 01:47 PM (ucB75)

*******

I think that's correct.

Posted by: Unfettered Power at April 26, 2016 02:04 PM (mcm0N)

47 A person who is making $15/hr now does what, Mr. Brown ?

Posted by: jsg at April 26, 2016 02:06 PM (oTWAX)

48 Wow! Let's see... if I employed a group of people and was then required to pay a higher minimum wage, I'd start thinking of options.
1. Reduce hours
2. Reduce other benefits
3. Reduce employees
Those are the first three.
Corollary to #1 is to squeeze more productivity out of each employee. That assumes that employees have excess capacity and that they can operate without that "buffer".
There comes a point at which labor is too expensive and the only logical business decision is to cease operations. Maybe the survivors are the corporate giants that libs love so much. How ironic!

Good job, libs!

Posted by: freedomfirst at April 26, 2016 02:07 PM (kPeSM)

49 I worry more about minimum wedgie and its escalator clause.

Posted by: Headless Body of Agnew at April 26, 2016 02:07 PM (FtrY1)

50 45 I suspect that democrats continually push to increase the minimum wage so that increasing numbers of LIVs become wards of the state, beholden to the party that pays their housing, food, and telephone bills.
Posted by: Vashta Nerada at April 26, 2016 02:03 PM (Qvgg/)

------------------

This. And, unfortunately, it's working.

Posted by: Soona at April 26, 2016 02:07 PM (Fmupd)

51 47 A person who is making $15/hr now does what, Mr. Brown ?

The person of Hispanic origin and undetermined citizenship who takes care of my lawn makes $15 per hour.

Posted by: jwest at April 26, 2016 02:08 PM (Zs4uk)

52 13 The minimum wage is $0/hour and always will be.

--

That's what I'm getting paid

Posted by: @votermom's phone at April 26, 2016 02:08 PM (yfBjX)

53 We're now having to argue the economic value of min wage laws without having enough breath left to argue for cutting back the size and scope of the Leviathan.

WASF
Posted by: weft cut-loop at April 26, 2016 02:03 PM (OcD4G)

**********

Yep.

Posted by: Unfettered Power at April 26, 2016 02:08 PM (mcm0N)

54 Strangely, the world is suffering from two seemingly opposite trends ... overpopulation and depopulation in concert. The overpopulation is due to the increased longevity of elderly lifespans vs. depopulation of young populations due to collapsing birthrates. The depopulation is among most under 25yr old populations (except Africa) and among many under 45yr old populations.

So, the old are living decades longer than a generation ago but their adult children are having far fewer children. The economics of this is a complete game changer and is unlike any time previously in the history of mankind. None of the models ever accounted for a shrinking young population absent income, savings, or job opportunity vs. massive growth in the old with a vast majority reliant on government programs in their generally underfunded retirements (apart from a minority of retirees who are wildly "overfunded").

... at last the market is correcting itself. There are going to be more retired experienced employees than were originally expected.

This also has yet another effect. Folks here at the Obama Treasury in concert with the Federal Reserve have been fighting a deflationary economy for 7+ years now. We see the $15 minimum wage as a way to start inflation .. from the bottom up.

Posted by: Jack Lew at April 26, 2016 02:09 PM (e8kgV)

55 If you took the wealth of the entire world, put it a pile, and divided it up equally among the worlds population, in 2-3 years the same people would be rich and the same people would be poor.

Posted by: Duke Lowell at April 26, 2016 02:09 PM (kTF2Z)

56 Jerry Brown flat out admitted that an increase in the minimum wage made no economic sense and then signed it into law anyway.
Posted by: Duke Lowell at April 26, 2016 01:52 PM (kTF2Z)

Because socialism is a religion, and faith in socialism is the progressive tithe.

Posted by: Ghost of kari - certified sidebar at April 26, 2016 02:09 PM (xuouz)

57 Are Union dues a percentage of earnings ?

Posted by: jsg at April 26, 2016 02:09 PM (oTWAX)

58 Which describes everything about the left. Empty headed emotion

====

Think so? What was the big Fight on the Right awhile back? Making Dubya's tax cuts permanent. What is it now? "Everybody's gotta have skin in the game", ie raising taxes. We're all just playing Pin The Tale on the Principles.

Posted by: Bigby's Banjo Plucking Fingers at April 26, 2016 02:09 PM (3ZtZW)

59 the problem with some of the left is that they do not believe that prices will rise to match the increase in wages. In their minds, prices reflect the greed of the supplier, not the cost of raw materials and labor.

Posted by: Deathknyte at April 26, 2016 02:09 PM (is1bw)

60 There comes a point at which labor is too expensive and the only logical business decision is to cease operations. Maybe the survivors are the corporate giants that libs love so much. How ironic!

---------
As when energy costs, resource costs, and interest rates increase.

Posted by: RioBravo at April 26, 2016 02:09 PM (NUqwG)

61 We have become a nation bound to emotions and feelings. Gone are the days of facts and laws.

Posted by: Soona at April 26, 2016 01:54 PM (Fmupd)

Fact and law has always been an uneasy rider on an emotional horse. This is nothing new at all, just that once in a while you would hear appeals to better emotions.

Posted by: *Mikey NTH - Pox Vobiscum - Get Your Literate Latinate Curses from the Outrage Outlet! at April 26, 2016 02:10 PM (hLRSq)

62 Wait. Faith in socialism is the progressive faith.

The economic harm wrought by socialist policies are the progressive tithe.

#yesallmetaphors

Posted by: Ghost of kari - certified sidebar at April 26, 2016 02:10 PM (xuouz)

63 Minimum wage laws are already destroying California.

Here in the Bay Area, when many cities already have $15 minimum wages, all restaurants have become outrageously expensive, and small businesses are shutting down right and left -- many explicitly citing the minimum wage law as the reason.

And the trendy restaurants are all starting this outrageous bizarre policy -- charging customers a whopping surchange to pay for the minimum wage.

Here's a good example -- a restaurant in Oakland:

http://www.bocanova.com/food.shtml

"Please note: 20% WILL BE ADDED TO THE SUBTOTAL OF YOUR BILL
Are you curious WHY?
Because we believe in just and equitable compensation for all of our hourly wage earners"

Think about this for a second. The restaurant is trying to guilt-trip customers about exploiting the waitstaff...but exactly WHO is oppressing the employees? Why, it is the restaurant owners themselves!

So this restaurant (and all the other trendy restaurants in the Bay Area with the same new policy) is saying this:

"We, the evil capitalist owners of this restaurant, are so diabolical that we practically enslave our employees! Help stop this outrage by GIVING US MORE MONEY so we can finally pay a pittance to our employees, crush capitalism and fund the workers' revolution -- against evil capitalists like us!"

The mind boggles. Hypocrisy supernova.

Posted by: zombie at April 26, 2016 02:11 PM (jBuUi)

64 You'll never make any headway with the minimum wage as long as you are flooding the country with immigrants, legal or illegal.

Posted by: WOPR - Nationalist at April 26, 2016 02:11 PM (n2GmV)

65 This is the evil twin of Pascal's Wager. He said that if you chose to live a moral life and there was no God, you had lost nothing. The minimum wage wager is that if you raise wages and it does no harm you have lost nothing, but, if it does do harm you have no recourse but to keep raising it, we have a century of proof.

Posted by: billhedrick at April 26, 2016 02:11 PM (NtggE)

66 The person of Hispanic origin and undetermined citizenship who takes care of my lawn makes $15 per hour.
Posted by: jwest at April 26, 2016 02:08 PM (Zs4uk)

And what will he want now that he knows the new guy the boss just hired is making the same as him ?

Posted by: jsg at April 26, 2016 02:12 PM (oTWAX)

67 I don't look any more but I think the unemployment rate for Young black males might be near 50%.

This minimum wage deal ought to fix that. Maybe the Dems can hit 60%. Although even now that 50% unemployment rate might be matching some third world countries. Eh--it's probably not that bad yet.

Posted by: Unfettered Power at April 26, 2016 02:13 PM (mcm0N)

68 I think too many working people who are for minimum wage, think their employers are Scrooge McDuck swimming in a vault full of money, and that employers can easily afford to pay "a little more." Also there's a certain irony in calling for $15 an hour at a university, and then yelling for lower tuition.

Posted by: Barb the Evil Genius at April 26, 2016 02:14 PM (FQKBL)

69 Is there a state-mandated minimum rage?
Because I've been making a ton of that for a while now...

Posted by: Chi at April 26, 2016 02:14 PM (AfOTL)

70 the only real minimum wage is $0/hour

Posted by: redc1c4 at April 26, 2016 02:14 PM (WhYLb)

71 And what will he want now that he knows the new guy the boss just hired is making the same as him ?

Posted by: jsg at April 26, 2016 02:12 PM (oTWAX)

Since it's all cash off the books, if he hires a helper I'm sure he'll charge me the $15/hr and pay the other guy $10/hr.

A capitalist is born.

Posted by: jwest at April 26, 2016 02:15 PM (Zs4uk)

72 Most minimum wages are supplemented by what can be stolen out of the cooler. Beer, hamburger patties, steaks.

Posted by: Fritz at April 26, 2016 02:15 PM (UzPAd)

73 "Aren't Union Wages tied to the minimum wage? Won't all those go up too?"

here in Lost Angels, #Failifornia, the unions are demanding exceptions for union shops... they only want the higher rates for places that aren't union, to entice the owners to encourage unionization.

fing scumbags.

Posted by: redc1c4 at April 26, 2016 02:17 PM (WhYLb)

74 This also has yet another effect. Folks here at the Obama Treasury in concert with the Federal Reserve have been fighting a deflationary economy for 7+ years now. We see the $15 minimum wage as a way to start inflation .. from the bottom up.
Posted by: Jack Lew at April 26, 2016 02:09 PM (e8kgV)

*******

Oh gawd--is that what they think is going to fix the deflationary economy? Mother of Gaia.

Posted by: Unfettered Power at April 26, 2016 02:17 PM (mcm0N)

75 To Progs, the argument about having a minimum wage is a nonstarter. 15$ per hour is their Utopia. I always say something like " 15$? Fine by me... you understand the cost of EVERYTHING will go up around 40% to cover the 15$ ?
Cause profits.... that's when they glaze over, because they don't understand the concept, cause the world exists to service THEM...

Posted by: kraken at April 26, 2016 02:19 PM (zuTLp)

76 Thus, our current millionaires would own all of the others' millions within 2 years or so.
Posted by: Bigby's Banjo Plucking Fingers

That's a best case senerio. I'd give it a year at most.

Posted by: AmeriDan at April 26, 2016 02:20 PM (FMZoz)

77 I've asked this many many times: Does the concept of a minimum wage reflect any conservative principle? If so, what?

My position is- abolish MW entirely.

Posted by: Bat Chain Puller at April 26, 2016 02:20 PM (SCcgT)

78 Interesting read over at the coyote blog link.

Posted by: Max Power at April 26, 2016 02:20 PM (QCc6B)

79 71 Since it's all cash off the books

The rub.

Posted by: jsg at April 26, 2016 02:21 PM (oTWAX)

80 The real issue is this:

Higher minimum wages HURT the poor at the lowest end of the economic spectrum.

Small business with employees will necessarily have to jack up with prices to match the increase in the wages. So everything will become more expensive in exact proportion to the wage increase. If everybody was employed, the end result would be an exact break-even no-gain situation: everybody earns more, but everybody would have to spend more too. So all you would have achieved is purposeless inflation.

But that's the BEST-case scenario. Because in reality, some huge percentage of households --something like 25% now in Obama's America -- have NO wage-earners, and survive on various types of welfare benefits. And for those people, they have to pay the new higher prices -- but without any attendant increase in wages, because they aren't earning any wages! So for the poorest Americans, their purchasing power DECREASES when wages increase!

The only solution to THAT problem is to increase welfare benefits -- and thus the spending spiral continues to skyrocket and the nation accelerates toward bankruptcy.

Which, frankly (cough Cloward-Piven cough) is the ultimate goal.

Posted by: zombie at April 26, 2016 02:21 PM (jBuUi)

81 Repealing the MW is an idea that would be impossible to "sell" to the voters.

Posted by: Max Power at April 26, 2016 02:21 PM (QCc6B)

82 If you gave everyone one million dollars, would anyone be any better off?

Posted by: Tim in GA>>>

Big screen TV makers and drug dealers?

Posted by: Buzzsaw at April 26, 2016 02:22 PM (tf9Ne)

83 Massive famines are key icons of climate change and global environmental change. However, the relationships among a bread box, science, and famines particularly related to epistemological questions about the production of famineological knowledge remain understudied. This paper thus proposes a famineology framework with four key components: 1) knowledge producers; (2) famine science and knowledge; (3) systems of scientific domination; and (4) alternative representations of famines. Merging famine postcolonial science studies and famine political ecology, the famineology framework generates robust analysis of famines, power, and epistemologies in dynamic social-ecological systems, thereby leading to more just and equitable science and human-famine interactions.

Posted by: Yasser Arafat at April 26, 2016 02:23 PM (e8kgV)

84 something like 25% now in Obama's America -- have NO wage-earners, and survive on various types of welfare benefits. And for those people, they have to pay the new higher prices -- but without any attendant increase in (income)
-------
I am sure they will come up with a plan to rectify that in time for the following legislative sessions.

Posted by: RioBravo at April 26, 2016 02:24 PM (NUqwG)

85 Good news. We can buy gun suppressors in OK now.

Posted by: Soona at April 26, 2016 02:24 PM (Fmupd)

86 a progressive (or liberal or what ever they're calling themselves today) is incapable of admitting that his ideas are wrong, it will always be the way the plan was carried out. I believe it was supergenius Krugman who said the 2009 stimulus would have worked much better if it had been double the amount.
ditto 'Gun control never works because it never goes far enough.'

Posted by: Satan of Blutwurst Vt at April 26, 2016 02:25 PM (qSIlh)

87 If you were running an illegal MJ business, wouldnt you have security? Dogs, guards, guns, alarms, etc.

Posted by: Bruce With a Wang! at April 26, 2016 02:25 PM (iQIUe)

88 Some moron linked a cartoon with underwater houses?

Posted by: DatAss at April 26, 2016 02:25 PM (DL2i+)

89 13 The minimum wage is $0/hour and always will be.

--

That's what I'm getting paid
Posted by: @votermom's phone

--------

Have I got a deal for you!!!

Posted by: Congressional Intern Recuiter at April 26, 2016 02:25 PM (FMZoz)

90 9 I had moved past earning minimum wage by the time I was 16. New skills in different jobs and showing up on time with a good attitude go a long way in making more money

Posted by: Buzzsaw at April 26, 2016 01:51 PM (tf9Ne)

That has to racist!

Posted by: RWC-Team BOHICA at April 26, 2016 02:26 PM (/CXhS)

91 re 66: equal pay for equal work. Isn't that what the progs are all hollering these days?
Oh if only we had a gov't bureau to set fair wages! Paradise would beckon!

Posted by: Satan of Blutwurst Vt at April 26, 2016 02:26 PM (qSIlh)

92 Proggies never think things out to the end. I suspect their brains have become truncated by wishcasting. The end of their socialist collective mindset is sitting in a government assigned, crumbling project, assigned to you. Going to your deadend government provided job, with its' set wage. Watching Government TV, on only set available in the Government store.
This is all common documented knowledge, but then again, who ever heard of the Soviet Union ???

Posted by: kraken at April 26, 2016 02:26 PM (zuTLp)

93 The Queen to Obozo: Get. Off. My. Lawn.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks at April 26, 2016 02:27 PM (Nwg0u)

94 Good news. We can buy gun suppressors in OK now.
Posted by: Soona at April 26, 2016 02:24 PM (Fmupd)
--------
Of the cylindrical variety or the leftist variety?

Posted by: RioBravo at April 26, 2016 02:27 PM (NUqwG)

95 Gun suppressors?
Is that anything like a Democrat?

Posted by: freedomfirst at April 26, 2016 02:27 PM (aO1W9)

96 85 Good news. We can buy gun suppressors in OK now.

Posted by: Soona at April 26, 2016 02:24 PM (Fmupd)

Still need to pay though, right?

Posted by: RWC-Team BOHICA at April 26, 2016 02:28 PM (/CXhS)

97 But a 23 year old mother of 5 can't live on $7.25 an hour.

Posted by: VOX at April 26, 2016 02:28 PM (SeZRV)

98
Me and Mr Spades, Mr Spades, Mr Spades...
We gotta a thang going on...
We both know that it's wrong
But it's much too strong to let it go now...

Posted by: Bruce With a Wang! at April 26, 2016 02:28 PM (iQIUe)

99 One thing which I always ask these new age thinkers with their progressive plans is what exactly is the definition of "Success", and the methodology to determine if the definition has been met.

GE sets out to reduce fuel burn rate, they say "Our targeted reduction is XX%".

They then test the engine, to see if fuel burn rate has been reduced by the correct amount.

If not?
Fail.

Government says "We have a great new plan" and not a damn person alive can define the parameters for success or failure.

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at April 26, 2016 02:29 PM (ptqRm)

100
Sounds great just exempt us like usual.

Posted by: DC politicians and workers at April 26, 2016 02:29 PM (ODxAs)

101 --btw McDonald's is looking at robotics for hamburger flipping.

At some point it's probably worth the initial investment.

Posted by: Unfettered Power at April 26, 2016 02:29 PM (mcm0N)

102
96 85 Good news. We can buy gun suppressors in OK now.

Posted by: Soona at April 26, 2016 02:24 PM (Fmupd)

Still need to pay though, right?
Posted by: RWC-Team BOHICA at April 26, 2016 02:28 PM (/CXhS)

----------------

??

Posted by: Soona at April 26, 2016 02:30 PM (Fmupd)

103 I've asked this many many times: Does the concept of a minimum wage reflect any conservative principle? If so, what?

====

Conservatives don't have much in the way of principles. Its a defensive posture, nothing more.

Posted by: Bigby's Banjo Plucking Fingers at April 26, 2016 02:30 PM (3ZtZW)

104 Minimum Wage? Hell, wait until obesity is declared a disability and you can get a monthly check for being fatter than whatever government BMI numbers the liberals dream up.

Posted by: ChampionCapua at April 26, 2016 02:30 PM (1F5vB)

105 The minimum wage is a tired, 100+ year old idea from the day when most workers were unskilled laborers paid hourly. The idea hasn't been updated for over a century even as the economy has vastly changed. Why is there no minimum wage for small business owners? Why is there no minimum wage for independent contractors? Why is there one fixed wage for all labor regardless of type? More to the point, why should private businesses be the dispensiaries of the state's social welfare agenda? If the state believes that a person doesn't "deserve" below $X/hour, then let the state subsidize that person directly, and stop forcing companies to do so.

If you talk to any liberal for any extent of time on this, it becomes immediately clear that (a) they don't care at all about the economics, it is all a moral issue to them; and (b) it is not so much of a moral issue about the worker, but moreso a moral issue about the *company*, that it is *immoral* for the company to pay wages that they regard as "low". They will say straight-up that if a company cannot afford to pay the minimum wage (or a "living wage") that the company should go out of business, even if it means unemployment goes up and more people end up on welfare. Because what happens to the workers is not important to them, it is more important that they punish what they perceive to be immoral behavior.

Posted by: chemjeff at April 26, 2016 02:30 PM (dpnZC)

106 re 97: and wait till she gets 12 weeks paid family leave every year. Think of how the economy will soar, almost like transferring the cost of welfare to business instead of the taxpayers!

Posted by: Satan of Blutwurst Vt at April 26, 2016 02:30 PM (qSIlh)

107
The only solution to THAT problem is to increase welfare benefits -- and thus the spending spiral continues to skyrocket and the nation accelerates toward bankruptcy.

Which, frankly (cough Cloward-Piven cough) is the ultimate goal.
Posted by: zombie

^^^this^^^

Posted by: AmeriDan at April 26, 2016 02:30 PM (FMZoz)

108 How about a dramatic increase in the minimum wage plus requirement that employers plus State share on providing six weeks of paid family leave at full pay? Sounds like a great plan to expand business in California.

Posted by: Joe Hallenback at April 26, 2016 02:31 PM (EWRow)

109 85

"We can buy gun suppressors in OK now."

Cool. Slavery reboot and it couldn't happen to more deserving people.

Posted by: Headless Body of Agnew at April 26, 2016 02:31 PM (FtrY1)

110 Fox Business Headline - Hillary Clinton slams Trump for his wealth.

Because she and Slick Willie are just getting by on minimum wage and not even the $15 an hour kind.

In fairness, they had to live in government housing for nearly twenty years.

Posted by: Grump928(c) says Free Soothie! at April 26, 2016 02:32 PM (evdj2)

111 "what they think is going to fix the deflationary economy? "

Probably not. They are probably just officers in the Cloward-Piven Strategy.

Summed up: create a crisis to get your agenda implemented. no jobs = crisis

Posted by: hard to tell at April 26, 2016 02:32 PM (j2xmV)

112 ??
Posted by: Soona at April 26, 2016 02:30 PM (Fmupd)

NFA tax

Posted by: RWC-Team BOHICA at April 26, 2016 02:32 PM (/CXhS)

113 I've asked this many many times: Does the concept of a minimum wage reflect any conservative principle? If so, what?

I think you can make humanist arguments that a person's labor should be worth at least some minimal value, and to the extent conservatism and humanism overlaps then there might be some merit to that position, but I don't think there is any conservative principle that says that the minimum wage, if there is to be one, ought to be federally mandated.

Posted by: chemjeff at April 26, 2016 02:32 PM (dpnZC)

114 They will say straight-up that if a company cannot afford to pay the minimum wage (or a "living wage") that the company should go out of business, even if it means unemployment goes up and more people end up on welfare. Because what happens to the workers is not important to them, it is more important that they punish what they perceive to be immoral behavior.
Posted by: chemjeff at April 26, 2016 02:30 PM (dpnZC)

Yet they never see their own behavior as immoral.

Posted by: rickb223 at April 26, 2016 02:32 PM (D4SfS)

115 You evil capitalists have it all wrong. The people will make more money which will put it into the economy which will make everyone rich but prices for everything will remain the same as they were before everyone was rich because none of those things are connected in any way. Oh, and by the way, pay for my health insurance and student loans and mortgage and while your at it I need a new phone and maybe a car.

Posted by: ajmojo at April 26, 2016 02:32 PM (1H9ox)

116 The internetz is telling us we eat too much, food shaming. So maybe there will be less no skill 15$ per hour jobs soon. I guess what's left then is just giving the slackers 15 bucks an hour on an EBT card.

Posted by: kraken at April 26, 2016 02:33 PM (zuTLp)

117 btw McDonald's is looking at robotics for hamburger flipping.

At some point it's probably worth the initial investment.

Posted by: Unfettered Power

--

I'd say it is somewhere around $15 per hour.

Posted by: Vashta Nerada at April 26, 2016 02:33 PM (Qvgg/)

118 Like all Democratic ideas, the minimum wage was invented and designed to fuck black Americans. Admittedly and openly.

Posted by: Grump928(c) says Free Soothie! at April 26, 2016 02:33 PM (evdj2)

119 "We can buy gun suppressors in OK now."

Isn't there a $200 tax on those?

Posted by: hard to tell at April 26, 2016 02:33 PM (j2xmV)

120 I read that the real reason the Left is pushing this is because SEIU wages are tied to the minimum wage. If the minimum wage goes up, so does the unions.

Of course, after this, prices will go up, because it will cost more to pay people to produce.

Posted by: ALH at April 26, 2016 02:33 PM (uLuPn)

121 "??"

As stated, the $200.00 per suppressor NFA Federal tax.

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at April 26, 2016 02:34 PM (ptqRm)

122 >>>>"I had moved past earning minimum wage by the time I was 16. New skills
in different jobs and showing up on time with a good attitude go a long
way in making more money

Posted by: Buzzsaw at April 26, 2016 01:51 PM"

That was my experience too.
.
.
.
.I got bumped up to $1.75 an hour within 60 days on my first job at Woolworth's. The minimum wage then was $1.40 an hour. It is amazing how showing up for work on time every day actually willing to work makes things so much better for the worker.

Posted by: The Great White Scotsman at April 26, 2016 02:34 PM (iONHu)

123 115 You evil capitalists have it all wrong. The people will make more money which will put it into the economy which will make everyone rich but prices for everything will remain the same as they were before everyone was rich because none of those things are connected in any way. Oh, and by the way, pay for my health insurance and student loans and mortgage and while your at it I need a new phone and maybe a car.
Posted by: ajmojo at April 26, 2016 02:32 PM (1H9ox)

IOW same as Obamacare.

Posted by: Golfman at April 26, 2016 02:36 PM (SeZRV)

124
You evil capitalists have it all wrong. The people will make more money which will put it into the economy which will make everyone rich but prices for everything will remain the same as they were before everyone was rich because none of those things are connected in any way.

Posted by: ajmojo at April 26, 2016 02:32 PM (1H9ox)

And we'll make it illegal to raise prices, as the evil capitalists should pay for the increased costs by reducing their obscene puppy-killing profits!

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at April 26, 2016 02:36 PM (MEFzG)

125 You mean you couldn't buy plastic 2 liter bottles of pop before in OK?

Posted by: Bigby's Banjo Plucking Fingers at April 26, 2016 02:36 PM (3ZtZW)

126 Unemployment is great for the economy. Those poor bastards spend it immediately. Everyone knows this.

Posted by: Nancy Pelosi at April 26, 2016 02:37 PM (oTWAX)

127
You mean you couldn't buy plastic 2 liter bottles of pop before in OK?

Posted by: Bigby's Banjo Plucking Fingers at April 26, 2016 02:36 PM (3ZtZW)

Or oil filters.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at April 26, 2016 02:37 PM (MEFzG)

128 >>>But a 23 year old mother of 5 can't live on $7.25 an hour<<<

If she locks them in the car in 110deg heat while auditioning at the local strip club she can.

Posted by: Fritz at April 26, 2016 02:37 PM (UzPAd)

129 Posted by: Soona at April 26, 2016 02:30 PM (Fmupd)

NFA tax
Posted by: RWC-Team BOHICA at April 26, 2016 02:32 PM (/CXhS)

-------------------

Just read the bill. It doesn't mention that.

Posted by: Soona at April 26, 2016 02:37 PM (Fmupd)

130 re 105: an important concept underlying the minimum wage is what's called "the lump of labor" theory. I am having trouble trying to word this correctly, but basically it means there is only so much work to go around; if business is discouraged from employing people over a certain number of hours a week, it will make work available for the unemployed.
Was that clear? I'm still not sure.

Posted by: Satan of Blutwurst Vt at April 26, 2016 02:38 PM (qSIlh)

131 This is on page 37 of "Slow-Motion Communist Revolution for Dummies" in the "How to transition to a centralized economy in five easy steps" chapter.

Posted by: zombie at April 26, 2016 02:38 PM (jBuUi)

132 I'd say it is somewhere around $15 per hour.
Posted by: Vashta Nerada at April 26, 2016 02:33 PM (Qvgg/)

**********

I'm almost willing to bet on that. And ---I lived in Las Vegas for years-- but only lost six dollars.

Posted by: Unfettered Power at April 26, 2016 02:38 PM (mcm0N)

133 Millions of people across the United States took to the streets yesterday to celebrate the fourth consecutive day without a deadly school shooting in America.

Posted by: Ron Jeremy at April 26, 2016 02:39 PM (e8kgV)

134 >>>>>Posted by: Soona at April 26, 2016 02:30 PM (Fmupd)

NFA tax

Posted by: RWC-Team BOHICA at April 26, 2016 02:32 PM (/CXhS)

-------------------

Just read the bill. It doesn't mention that.

Posted by: Soona at April 26, 2016 02:37 PM (Fmupd)

---------------------------------------------------------------------That $200 is the Federal Tax stamp, the State Bill wouldn't mention that at all.

Posted by: The Great White Scotsman at April 26, 2016 02:39 PM (iONHu)

135 So the head of the night shift who worked himself up to 15.50 / hr is just going to accept a new hire being paid 15.00 / hr?

Not going to happen.

Posted by: Joe Hallenback at April 26, 2016 02:39 PM (EWRow)

136 'In compliance with the National Firearms Act.'

So yep, you'd need the Form 4 Tax Stamp.

Posted by: RWC-Team BOHICA at April 26, 2016 02:40 PM (/CXhS)

137 another cure for unemployment was being pushed by the left years ago: eight hours pay, six hour day, make it illegal to lay off anyone, the gov't takes over business that are going broke. That was the Socialist Workers Party (Trotskyites) anyway. Rocket science at its best.

Posted by: Satan of Blutwurst Vt at April 26, 2016 02:40 PM (qSIlh)

138 I would have as much succes talking basic economics to the garden variety Proggie as I would my dog. He eats shits and sleeps. He wants to play all the time, when not doing those other things. Like a Prog, he's into lots of leg humping. He really does not understand consequences, and does not care where the dog food comes from, as long as it's there on time.

Posted by: kraken at April 26, 2016 02:40 PM (zuTLp)

139 And there's more!

If minimum-wage opponents (such as me) are correct, we'll see over time that elimination of the minimum wage increases the employment of low-skilled workers, as well as eliminates or greatly reduces the differences between the unemployment rates of black and Hispanic low-skilled workers and the unemployment rates of white low-skilled workers. We'll see a slight reduction in the incomes of middle-class households and increases in the incomes of lower-income households. We'll see also fewer people in their 20s and 30s who have never gained on-the-job experience and skills

We could never do that. My heavens, what would the unions do?

///

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at April 26, 2016 02:40 PM (voOPb)

140 ...but only lost six dollars.

---------------------
Congratulations! You qualify to be a Republican Congressman. You will never win but you can come up just short after a gallant, humiliating struggle time and time again.

Posted by: RioBravo at April 26, 2016 02:41 PM (NUqwG)

141 Rough estimate...
By what percentage do you think the "average" American's yearly expenditures have increased over what they were say, 25 years ago, due to federally mandated bullshit (MW, fees, taxes, epa regulation, insurance, liability, etc, etc, etc)?

Posted by: ajmojo at April 26, 2016 02:41 PM (1H9ox)

142 re 135
So the head of the night shift who worked himself up to 15.50 / hr is just going to accept a new hire being paid 15.00 / hr?

Not going to happen.

that's why we need unions! Didn't you ever study political economix?

Posted by: Satan of Blutwurst Vt at April 26, 2016 02:41 PM (qSIlh)

143 "Just read the bill. It doesn't mention that."

What the Scotsman of Pallor just said.

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at April 26, 2016 02:41 PM (ptqRm)

144 We could pay every unemployed person $15 per hour to affix "Transgender Bathroom" signs on every toilet in America, and a perfect utopia will have been achieved! Society's two most pressing injustices solved in one fell swoop!

Posted by: zombie at April 26, 2016 02:42 PM (jBuUi)

145 Prove it? Because the leftists want it.

Posted by: Skip who voted for the Lions Ted at April 26, 2016 02:42 PM (8BJMp)

146 This is all common documented knowledge, but then again, who ever heard of the Soviet Union ???
Posted by: kraken at April 26, 2016 02:26 PM (zuTLp)

They romanticize it. They think that everyone having a little of something is better than people being given the choice and opportunity to have as much as they want based on their effort. Because effort and work are stupid, unless the government requires it of you-hence the Earf day grounds clean ups, that ridiculous service day for 9/11 imposed by the current administration, etc.

I lived in Warsaw, and there are plenty of people there who have vivid memories of life under Soviet rule. The most hated building in the city is the Palace of Culture, an giant tower built by the Soviets in the middle of Centrum. It's like a giant finger to Poland. These people know what it's like to wait in line for six feet of toilet paper, or for a week's ration of bread, which was about three loaves. They are still surrounded by the Soviet style housing blocks, which allotted five hundred square feet per family, with one bathroom per floor for the seven or eight apartments. They don't want to go back to that, and they do not understand why anyone would want to live that way.

What I really think the left wants is to send all of us who disagree with them to the Gulags, so that they can live in peace and harmony with like minded totalitarians. It will be a real shame when every thing breaks, and the little snowflakes have no one to fix it.

Posted by: Moki at April 26, 2016 02:42 PM (ezHMO)

147 Multiple Facebook pages supporting Democratic presidential candidate Bernie Sanders were abruptly removed from the social media network late last night following an apparent coordinated cyberattack.

The pro-Sanders pages -- which include Bernie or Bust, Bernie Believers and Bernie Sanders is my HERO -- were collectively followed by over a quarter-million supporters of the Vermont senator, and many had been operating continuously since Sanders launched his campaign last year.

The attack began around 9 p.m. EDT and lasted until just after midnight, when most of the pages recovered their accounts.

According to eyewitness reports, the pages were flooded with pornographic images in coordinated fashion and then flagged for obscene content, prompting Facebook to remove them.

Posted by: Ron Jeremy at April 26, 2016 02:42 PM (e8kgV)

148 Slavery is illegal in the U.S.

Anyone has the choice of walking away from a job if it doesn't pay enough.

Abolish minimum wage.

Posted by: Bat Chain Puller at April 26, 2016 02:43 PM (SCcgT)

149 ---------------------------------------------------------------------That $200 is the Federal Tax stamp, the State Bill wouldn't mention that at all.
Posted by: The Great White Scotsman at April 26, 2016 02:39 PM (iONHu)

---------------

So I pay the $200. Then I have a legal, manufactured silencer. I'll take the deal.

Posted by: Soona at April 26, 2016 02:43 PM (Fmupd)

150 Congratulations! You qualify to be a Republican Congressman. You will never win but you can come up just short after a gallant, humiliating struggle time and time again.
Posted by: RioBravo at April 26, 2016 02:41 PM (NUqwG)

*********

I played Black Jack for hours---but only single deck. I also bet on the Streelers a couple of times. So suck it!

Posted by: Unfettered Power at April 26, 2016 02:44 PM (mcm0N)

151 *STEELERS*

Posted by: Unfettered Power at April 26, 2016 02:44 PM (mcm0N)

152 Doesn't matter. When Gov. Moonbean signed $15 into law he said it probably isn't a good idea economically, but it's "the right thing to do". This is the world in which we live.

Posted by: Monsieur Moo Moo at April 26, 2016 02:45 PM (0LHZx)

153 Rush just had a good heartfelt section about his personal knowledge of both Trump and Cruz which would've been good for both

Trump supporters and #nevertrumpsters and Cruz supporters to hear.

Posted by: naturalfake at April 26, 2016 02:45 PM (WNXgj)

154 So the head of the night shift who worked himself up to 15.50 / hr is just going to accept a new hire being paid 15.00 / hr?

Not going to happen.

THIS!

Posted by: rickb223 at April 26, 2016 02:45 PM (D4SfS)

155 So I pay the $200. Then I have a legal, manufactured silencer. I'll take the deal.

They are legal to hunt with in Texas per 2015 season.

Posted by: rickb223 at April 26, 2016 02:46 PM (D4SfS)

156 The best argument against min wage is - if $15 is so great, why not $150? At least then the leftist imbecile has a teenie, tiny idea planted in his head that this whole thing doesn't work as he's been told.

Posted by: Monsieur Moo Moo at April 26, 2016 02:46 PM (0LHZx)

157 I have no problem abolishing minimum wage. As long as we implement a maximum wage (essential governmental employees and favored others excluded, of course).

Posted by: Anyone on the Democrat side including Hillary but don't vote for Trump at April 26, 2016 02:47 PM (1H9ox)

158 >>>>>---------------------------------------------------------------------That
$200 is the Federal Tax stamp, the State Bill wouldn't mention that at
all.

Posted by: The Great White Scotsman at April 26, 2016 02:39 PM (iONHu)

---------------

So I pay the $200. Then I have a legal, manufactured silencer. I'll take the deal.

Posted by: Soona at April 26, 2016 02:43 PM (Fmupd)
..----------------------------------------------------------------Uh, you have to pay for the silencer also.

Posted by: The Great White Scotsman at April 26, 2016 02:47 PM (iONHu)

159 So the head of the night shift who worked himself up to 15.50 / hr is just going to accept a new hire being paid 15.00 / hr?

Not going to happen.
Posted by: Joe Hallenback

It's the new American way. Pit everybody against everybody else from every direction and level.

Posted by: AmeriDan at April 26, 2016 02:47 PM (FMZoz)

160 So he's proposing a bold, new economic approach to America called "freedom?" This country would never go for anything so outlandish as freedom. Where my handouts at?

Posted by: CrustyB at April 26, 2016 02:47 PM (GvSpB)

161 OT - We are supposed to commemorate the 101st anniv of the Armenian genocide - tens of thousands marched in L A this weekend. Coincidentally, I've been reading "Imperial apocalypse : the Great War and the destruction of the Russian Empire" by Joshua A Sanbor.

He mentions the Armenians were disarmed in February, 2015.

The Genocide began late April.

Coincidentally? Muhuhaha - Cali has lib's wet dream gun control measures in pipeline - thanks, DeLeon.

Posted by: OK, Thanks, Bye at April 26, 2016 02:47 PM (ucB75)

162 They are legal to hunt with in Texas per 2015 season.

Posted by: rickb223 at April 26, 2016 02:46 PM (D4SfS)

For hunting the most dangerous game?

AWESOME!

Posted by: RWC-Team BOHICA at April 26, 2016 02:48 PM (/CXhS)

163 154 So the head of the night shift who worked himself up to 15.50 / hr is just going to accept a new hire being paid 15.00 / hr?

Not going to happen.

THIS!
Posted by: rickb223 at April 26, 2016 02:45 PM (D4SfS)

____

Right. All $15 an hour will do in the long run is cause inflation to where $15 will have the same buying power as what $7.25 had. Which is why I don't worry about this too much because supply and demand theory will fix the Democrats' stupidity.

Posted by: Monsieur Moo Moo at April 26, 2016 02:48 PM (0LHZx)

164 Unions push it because it will give them a raise

Posted by: Skip who voted for the Lion Ted at April 26, 2016 02:48 PM (8BJMp)

165 152 Doesn't matter. When Gov. Moonbean signed $15 into law he said it probably isn't a good idea economically, but it's "the right thing to do". This is the world in which we live.
Posted by: Monsieur Moo Moo at April 26, 2016 02:45 PM (0LHZx)

Wow. Delusional flights from reality. A reality where your personal stroking of your personal righteousness trumps the world. Nice.

Posted by: kraken at April 26, 2016 02:49 PM (zuTLp)

166 I read the linked article CBD. I even shared it and talked smack at the person I shared it with to make sure they clicked on it themselves.

But I didn't comment about it.

Posted by: Ghost of kari - certified sidebar at April 26, 2016 02:49 PM (xuouz)

167 Feb 1915 - d'oh!

Posted by: OK, Thanks, Bye at April 26, 2016 02:49 PM (ucB75)

168 Eliminate a thing that generates votes and redistributes power from citizens to politicians?

Yeah, right.

Posted by: eman at April 26, 2016 02:50 PM (mR7Es)

169 A "minimum wage" was instituted by unions in many manufacturing jobs. A cursory look at the number of manufacturing jobs going to states that don't require union membership to work should be ample evidence for all but the terminally stupid and/or ideological.

Posted by: Hank at April 26, 2016 02:50 PM (uIvKc)

170 #3 actually, no. Only those union werkers makin less than min wage will get a "raise". The rest have to 'bargain'. They really can't strike, everything costs more with a higher min wage forcing them to work or starve.

Posted by: torabora at April 26, 2016 02:50 PM (i8q2v)

171
What I really think the left wants is to send all of us who disagree with them to the Gulags, so that they can live in peace and harmony with like minded totalitarians. It will be a real shame when every thing breaks, and the little snowflakes have no one to fix it.

Posted by: Moki at April 26, 2016 02:42 PM (ezHMO)

As I've ranted here before, leftists DON'T CARE about building a socialist/communist utopia. That's just the lie that they spew to the masses in order to pull the wool over their eyes while the left works on their real agenda, which is chaos, destruction, slavery and death.

Building a utopian society isn't much fun, because it's work. But as long as a leftist gets the opportunity to shoot a few kneeling Kulaks in the back of the neck, they're content.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at April 26, 2016 02:50 PM (MEFzG)

172 ..----------------------------------------------------------------Uh, you have to pay for the silencer also.
Posted by: The Great White Scotsman at April 26, 2016 02:47

----------------

Really? Duh!

Posted by: Soona at April 26, 2016 02:50 PM (Fmupd)

173 $15/hr = $30K a year roughly. But the poverty line for a single person is about $20K a year. Which means, working full time for $15 = you lose all those sweet, sweet govt freebies for "the poor".

But worry not members of the FSA, they'll probably just move the definition of "poor" to $35K a year to make up for it.

Posted by: Monsieur Moo Moo at April 26, 2016 02:51 PM (0LHZx)

174 Which is why I don't worry about this too much because supply and demand theory will fix the Democrats' stupidity.
Posted by: Monsieur Moo Moo at April 26, 2016 02:48 PM (0LHZx)

Fixing democrat stupidity is like brushing your teeth. It doesn't happen on its own, it's not ok to ignore it, and if you think you don't need floss and listerine too you're fooling yourself.

Posted by: Ghost of kari - certified sidebar at April 26, 2016 02:52 PM (xuouz)

175 China finally admitted they were wrong about The One Child Policy, but at the same time they made it possible for parents to take their children to court for not visiting and/or--supporting them.

Posted by: Unfettered Power at April 26, 2016 02:53 PM (mcm0N)

176 Fixing democrat stupidity is like brushing your teeth. It doesn't happen on its own, it's not ok to ignore it, and if you think you don't need floss and listerine too you're fooling yourself.
...
Seems more like wiping your nether regions.

Posted by: Anyone on the Democrat side including Hillary but don't vote for Trump at April 26, 2016 02:53 PM (1H9ox)

177 Fixing democrat stupidity is like brushing your teeth. It doesn't happen on its own, it's not ok to ignore it, and if you think you don't need floss and listerine too you're fooling yourself.
Posted by: Ghost of kari - certified sidebar at April 26, 2016 02:52 PM (xuouz)

____

Oh don't get me wrong, there will be many people hurt by this. But in the long run, as hard as they try they can't bend the laws of supply and demand. Raise the min wage to $1M an hour, and it won't matter in the long run as the economy will adjust. Marginal cost of labor = price of labor. That equation doesn't change, on a relative basis.

That's my point.

Posted by: Monsieur Moo Moo at April 26, 2016 02:54 PM (0LHZx)

178
Fixing Democrat stupidity?

C'mere, gimme a hand with this rock.

Posted by: Sisyphus at April 26, 2016 02:54 PM (MEFzG)

179 Uh, you have to pay for the silencer also.

===

Or, submit paperwork for manufacture and pay the tax stamp

Posted by: Bigby's Banjo Plucking Fingers at April 26, 2016 02:54 PM (3ZtZW)

180 When did things change?

Way back when we hired people (mainly kids) for minimum wage, that amount only lasted for the first 60 or 90 days. After that, you knew whether or not you were going to keep them or not and we would give them a $.20 or $.25 more.

As far as I knew, that's how just about everyone handled it.

I can't imagine how bad an employee you would have to be to working for a few years and still be at the minimum.

Posted by: jwest at April 26, 2016 02:55 PM (Zs4uk)

181 If people were coldly rational the explanation that labor is a commodity and is not always worth $15/hr would work perfectly. They aren't, and no one is contesting the left's ownership of the moral argument. You're leaving it to the supporters of partial-birth abortion to make the argument that human worth can be measured in more ways than current market value.

Posted by: a phoenician sailor at April 26, 2016 02:56 PM (uEmgg)

182 I can't imagine how bad an employee you would have to be to working for a few years and still be at the minimum.
...
Have you been on a college campus lately?

Posted by: ajmojo at April 26, 2016 02:56 PM (1H9ox)

183 I believe this raising the minimum wage thing could work
If they raised my hourly wage to $1M/hr

Just me. That would be my minimum wage. Nothing for the rest of you.

I believe that this would be an unalloyed good for American society and cause no larger economic harm.

Join me and demand that Congress pass the Naturalfake $1M/hr Minimum Wage Make America Great Bill today!

Posted by: naturalfake at April 26, 2016 02:56 PM (WNXgj)

184 Don't forget raising the minimum wage also raises the payroll taxes that struggle to keep programs like SS and Medicare afloat.

Posted by: Hank at April 26, 2016 02:56 PM (uIvKc)

185 http://www.princeton.edu/~tleonard/papers/Eugenics.pdf

How minimum wage got started: as an instrument of racism. The specific section starts on page 13.

Posted by: Epobirs at April 26, 2016 02:56 PM (IdCqF)

186 When I started work, they paid us in chickens. Then it evolved into bacon. Progress!!!

Posted by: kraken at April 26, 2016 02:57 PM (zuTLp)

187 If enough low skill people lose their jobs because of the minimum wage, the Leftists can just fix it with the Negative Income Tax.

It's all a Win for these turds.

Posted by: Grump928(c) says Free Soothie! at April 26, 2016 02:58 PM (evdj2)

188 A very simple example but applicable.

Today:
Min wage = $1
Price of product created by worker = $2
Profit = 1 hour of labor per 1 unit of product
Worker can buy 1/2 of his own product with 1 hour of labor

Tomorrow:
Min wage = $2
Price of product increased to $4
Profit = still 1 hour of labor per unit of product
Worker can still buy 1/2 of his own product with 1 hour of labor

So you can increase the minimum wage to whatever you want, at the end of the day the buying power of that minimum wage doesn't change.
Price of product now has to be $4 in or

Posted by: Monsieur Moo Moo at April 26, 2016 02:58 PM (0LHZx)

189 How does the $15 minimum affect the Earned Income Tax Credit? I hear about tax rebates* for single mothers that get near $10K when the wages they made would have had little to no fed withholding.

*Rebates is probably the wrong word but I can't think of the right one.

Posted by: Buzzsaw at April 26, 2016 02:58 PM (tf9Ne)

190 Microeconomics vs Macroeconomics, in the sense of short-term benefit vs. long-term costs.

Remember the Keynesianism "In the long term, we're all dead" in response to concerns about long term consequences?

Now, interestingly, and ironically, in the long term, extreme wage hikes could reduce inflation by forcing the bottom of the economy out of work to be replaced by automation.

What to do with *another* 60 million unemployed is another question entirely.

I think California already started on that with the "Assisted Suicide Hotline" (you read that right, a pro-suicide hotline).

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at April 26, 2016 02:58 PM (wB8Tg)

191 For people whose wages go up, their costs go up.

For people whose wages don't go up, their costs also go up.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at April 26, 2016 02:59 PM (wB8Tg)

192

===

Or, submit paperwork for manufacture and pay the tax stamp
Posted by: Bigby's Banjo Plucking Fingers at April 26, 2016 02:54 PM (3ZtZW)

---------------

We'll see. I'm getting one. Because, you see, once I get it, it'll be legal in OK. Would it be legal in your state if you wanted one? Probably not.

Posted by: Soona at April 26, 2016 02:59 PM (Fmupd)

193 Seems more like wiping your nether regions.
Posted by: Anyone on the Democrat side including Hillary but don't vote for Trump

Do go on...

Posted by: AmeriDan at April 26, 2016 02:59 PM (FMZoz)

194 You're leaving it to the supporters of partial-birth abortion to make the argument that human worth can be measured in more ways than current market value.

It can be measured in two kidneys and a liver!

Posted by: rickb223 at April 26, 2016 03:00 PM (D4SfS)

195 Min wage = $1
Price of product created by worker = $2
Profit = 1 hour of labor per 1 unit of product
Worker can buy 1/2 of his own product with 1 hour of labor

======

...Sold my soul to the Company Store...

Posted by: Bigby's Banjo Plucking Fingers at April 26, 2016 03:00 PM (3ZtZW)

196 I think California already started on that with the "Assisted Suicide Hotline" (you read that right, a pro-suicide hotline).

The anti-jumper fence on the Golden Gate Bridge ends at the waterline. It's about protecting the tourists at the Presidio.

Posted by: Grump928(c) says Free Soothie! at April 26, 2016 03:00 PM (evdj2)

197 Would it be legal in your state if you wanted one? Probably not.

===

Everything is legal to The Correct People. The Incorrect People adapt available, legal technology to whatever uses they wish to.

Posted by: Bigby's Banjo Plucking Fingers at April 26, 2016 03:02 PM (3ZtZW)

198 Being old, I'm amused, in a mordant, gallows sort of way, about how wise and knowing the average young Leftist is about economic reality. . The probably reject Newtonian physics when it gets in the way of their wishes.

Posted by: kraken at April 26, 2016 03:02 PM (zuTLp)

199 Sock fail on #193. Meant to sign as "Sick Pervert (coming soon to a unisex bathroom near you)"

Let the humilation commence.

Posted by: AmeriDan at April 26, 2016 03:02 PM (FMZoz)

200 Now, interestingly, and ironically, in the long term, extreme wage hikes could reduce inflation by forcing the bottom of the economy out of work to be replaced by automation.

******

So that's just enough to get Hillaryland re-elected. Then she does "single-payer" which assists with the second part of the longer term problem.

Posted by: Unfettered Power at April 26, 2016 03:02 PM (mcm0N)

201 Moo Moo, I understand what you're saying. It discounts the fact that the precipitous shift in wages and prices will be stoked into a crisis (real or imagined) used to justify further economic action by the left, which will not, necessarily, be confined to effects which can be rationalized away.

Posted by: Ghost of kari - certified sidebar at April 26, 2016 03:03 PM (xuouz)

202 You have chosen slow and horrible.

Have a nice day.

Posted by: Just the Punchline at April 26, 2016 03:03 PM (evdj2)

203 "Would it be legal in your state if you wanted one? Probably not."

Maryland allows them

I understand it is a six-nine month application turnaround time with the Feds for the Stamp.

They do save your hearing though.

Wish I had the scratch laying around for one, or more.

Enjoy your when you get it.

Serious.

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at April 26, 2016 03:04 PM (ptqRm)

204 The anti-jumper fence on the Golden Gate Bridge ends at the waterline. It's about protecting the tourists at the Presidio.
Posted by: Grump928(c) says Free Soothie! at April 26, 2016 03:00 PM (evdj2)

*********

LOL---shit.

Posted by: Unfettered Power at April 26, 2016 03:04 PM (mcm0N)

205 So once the minimum wage goes up, does Social Security, or Military retirement go up as well?

Asking for a me.

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at April 26, 2016 03:05 PM (ptqRm)

206 So once the minimum wage goes up, does Social Security, or Military retirement go up as well?

Of course not. Official Inflation will remain at .2% annual.

Posted by: Grump928(c) says Free Soothie!, with purchase of commentor of equal or greater value at April 26, 2016 03:06 PM (evdj2)

207 So once the minimum wage goes up, does Social Security, or Military retirement go up as well?

Asking for a me.
Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice

Hahahaha. Good one.

Posted by: AmeriDan at April 26, 2016 03:07 PM (FMZoz)

208 Everything is legal to The Correct People. The Incorrect People adapt available, legal technology to whatever uses they wish to.
Posted by: Bigby's Banjo Plucking Fingers at April 26, 2016 03

-------------

I try to stay correct as much as I can. It cuts down on a lot of negative hassles.....you know, like prison.

Posted by: Soona at April 26, 2016 03:07 PM (Fmupd)

209 I predict that once Trump wins the nomination, he'll come out in support of a $16 dollar an hour minimum wage of some sort.

Then he'll walk it back by allowing exceptions.

Posted by: Harun at April 26, 2016 03:07 PM (UBBWX)

210 Tomorrow:
Min wage = $2
Price of product increased to $4
Profit = still 1 hour of labor per unit of product
Worker can still buy 1/2 of his own product with 1 hour of labor
...
Except worker can now be replaced by an illegal immigrant working for cash, a robot, or outsourced to some country with small handed nimble workers. Thus:
Min wage= $2
Wages paid (minus investment of paying a coyote, buying a robot, or shipping overseas)= $1.75
Price of product increases to $3.50
Profit= 1 hour labor per unit of product
Business drives other businesses out of business due to low overhead
Worker can't buy shit because worker aint got no jobbyjob.

Posted by: ajmojo at April 26, 2016 03:07 PM (1H9ox)

211 Sanders to "re access" his campaign tonight ?

Posted by: Nevergiveup at April 26, 2016 03:07 PM (V/InG)

212 You have chosen slow and horrible.

Have a nice day.
Posted by: Just the Punchline

Heh.

Posted by: AmeriDan at April 26, 2016 03:08 PM (FMZoz)

213 OT, whatever that means, but I see "Free Soothie! " Has he been kidnapped, or maybe banished? What did this person do?
Also, whatever happened to Willow? Don't see her anymore.

Posted by: kraken at April 26, 2016 03:09 PM (zuTLp)

214 I think Jerry Brown's actual quote was that economics make no sense, so what the hell.

Posted by: t-bird at April 26, 2016 03:10 PM (F1ndw)

215 214 I think Jerry Brown's actual quote was that economics make no sense, so what the hell.
Posted by: t-bird at April 26, 2016 03:10 PM (F1ndw)
So, drug-addled. Gotcha.

Posted by: kraken at April 26, 2016 03:12 PM (zuTLp)

216 Does this spill over to salary employees?

Is the minimum $600/wk for full time?

Posted by: jwest at April 26, 2016 03:13 PM (Zs4uk)

217 Worker can't buy shit because worker aint got no jobbyjob.
Posted by: ajmojo at April 26, 2016 03:07 PM (1H9ox)

Worker gots EBT. Worker can buy lobster, Escalades, & Air Jordans.

Posted by: rickb223 at April 26, 2016 03:13 PM (D4SfS)

218 I'm late to this thread.. and not sure if this has been mentioned above..

but basically this fight for a $15 minimum wage is being funded by SEIU... they are pouring millions into this campaign.

Many of their contracts are based on "minimum wage plus".. so everyone who is in an SEIU local will get raises PLUS whatever the dollar amount OVER min wage the contract calls for.

SEIU does not really give a shit about minimum wage workers.. this is about their union members making more than minimum wage already, who will get a giant boost and pay more union dues.. and their supervisors' pay will go up.. and so on and so on..

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at April 26, 2016 03:13 PM (so+oy)

219 The Steven Crowder rant on the sidebar is very good; you should try it.

Posted by: *Mikey NTH - Pox Vobiscum - Get Your Literate Latinate Curses from the Outrage Outlet! at April 26, 2016 03:13 PM (hLRSq)

220 >>>>
So once the minimum wage goes up, does Social Security, or Military retirement go up as well?

Asking for a me.

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at April 26, 2016 03:05 PM (ptqRm)
---------------------------------.Nope, our retirements are locked in to what we got when we retired and the kicker is that with the Fed saying there is no inflation we don't even get raises.

Our Military pensions are worth less and less each passing year.

Posted by: The Great White Scotsman at April 26, 2016 03:13 PM (iONHu)

221 Has he been kidnapped, or maybe banished? What did this person do?

Yes, banned by maet after a pissing contest. And he predates pretty much all of you guys as a commenter.

Posted by: Grump928(c) says Free Soothie!, with purchase of commentor of equal or greater value at April 26, 2016 03:14 PM (evdj2)

222 Sanders to "re access" his campaign tonight ?
Posted by: Nevergiveup

Horsehead been sent?
Black roses?
Fish?

Posted by: rickb223 at April 26, 2016 03:14 PM (D4SfS)

223 Posted by: kraken at April 26, 2016 03:09 PM (zuTLp)

Roughly speaking, Soothie lost his shit and got banned.

Willow is taking a break (and I'm cutting back) during Primary Season because people are losing their shit.

She stops in every so often.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at April 26, 2016 03:15 PM (wB8Tg)

224 Bernie supporters want to increase the township superiors in my township from 3 to 5, no goverment can be too small for socialists.

Posted by: Skip who voted for the Lion Ted at April 26, 2016 03:16 PM (8BJMp)

225 Roughly speaking, Soothie lost his shit and got banned.

I think Maet equally lost his shit in their exchange, but he's a Cob-logger and crony, so, it happened.

Posted by: Grump928(c) says Free Soothie!, with purchase of commentor of equal or greater value at April 26, 2016 03:17 PM (evdj2)

226 I try to stay correct as much as I can. It cuts down on a lot of negative hassles.....you know, like prison.

===

*shrug*

Stating something I've noticed is all.

Posted by: Bigby's Banjo Plucking Fingers at April 26, 2016 03:17 PM (3ZtZW)

227 Random, but I completely despise Bernie Sanders and his thieving supporters.

I made a sarcastic comment about Bernie stealing my money to pay for college for strangers, and some douche ranted at me about "the whole they-do-nothing-to-earn-it" argument of Bernie haters. He went on to elaborate that he's earned it by working a full work week and paying taxes.

Seriously, I owe him and other millennials an extra $15,000 a year out of my pocket because he has a fucking job.

Posted by: Randy Weaver's Revenge at April 26, 2016 03:18 PM (hxUdS)

228 Also, whatever happened to Willow? Don't see her anymore.
Posted by: kraken

Willow wrote that she was taking a break from political stuff here. She phrased it better than that, though.

Posted by: AmeriDan at April 26, 2016 03:18 PM (FMZoz)

229 Thanks, Grump and Merovign. Could not remember the thing about Soothie. Must have pushed that magic button. I avoid some topics and themes because the line sometimes taunts me.
Willow I miss. Fun and quirky, in the best way.

Posted by: kraken at April 26, 2016 03:19 PM (zuTLp)

230 Seriously, I owe him and other millennials an extra $15,000 a year out of my pocket because he has a fucking job.

Tell him that he needs to sack up and Come and Take it.

Posted by: Grump928(c) says Free Soothie!, with purchase of commentor of equal or greater value at April 26, 2016 03:19 PM (evdj2)

231 Thanks, AmeriDan.

Posted by: kraken at April 26, 2016 03:19 PM (zuTLp)

232 Has he been kidnapped, or maybe banished? What did this person do?

Yes, banned by maet after a pissing contest. And he predates pretty much all of you guys as a commenter.
Posted by: Grump928(c) says Free Soothie!
............
and WTF happened to rdbrewer?

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at April 26, 2016 03:20 PM (so+oy)

233 I mourn for a year and a day in the traditional manner.

Posted by: Grump928(c) says Free Soothie!, with purchase of commentor of equal or greater value at April 26, 2016 03:20 PM (evdj2)

234 The numbers are dated, but the points he makes are valid, since Obama has been unable to repeal the law of supply and demand.

This is what most don't seem to get about Democrats and the min wage. They understand the problem. Immigration, both legal and illegal, is suppressing wages. The problem, for them, is how to address this issue without violating party planks. The min wage is their answer. They intend to force employers to increase the wages of their employees in defiance of the laws of supply and demand. This is of course more than the Republicans plan to do, which is nothing since many support open borders as an economic model.

Posted by: DFCtomm at April 26, 2016 03:20 PM (MJ2pn)

235 actually, increased wages in some industry followed by increased prices does not equal inflation. The central bank increasing the supply of money and credit is inflation.
After all, if I am one of those lucky people whose income is enough to pay for my needs and a few wants, making me pay an extra ten dollars a week for something (let's say my gas for the furnace bill goes up due to idiot EPA policies) I have ten dollars a week less to spend elsewhere.
Blaming unions or OPEC for an increase in the cost of living makes it possible to redirect blame from the politicians and central banks for crappy monetary policies.
I hope that came out right.

Posted by: Satan of Blutwurst Vt at April 26, 2016 03:20 PM (qSIlh)

236 I'll start wearing black immediately, Grump, in Moron solidarity...... nah, it makes me look like a Pentecostal preacher.

Posted by: kraken at April 26, 2016 03:21 PM (zuTLp)

237 Thanks, AmeriDan.
Posted by: kraken

You're very welcome.

Posted by: AmeriDan at April 26, 2016 03:22 PM (FMZoz)

238 and WTF happened to rdbrewer?

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at April 26, 2016 03:20 PM (so+oy)

I think they found some bodies in his crawlspace.

Posted by: jwest at April 26, 2016 03:22 PM (Zs4uk)

239 Inflation is always and everywhere a monetary phenomenon in the sense that it is and can be produced only by a more rapid increase in the quantity of money than in output. - Uncle Milton

Posted by: Grump928(c) says Free Soothie!, with purchase of commentor of equal or greater value at April 26, 2016 03:22 PM (evdj2)

240 But the left will set forth bogus stats and the media will let them get away with it.

Posted by: Bud Norton at April 26, 2016 03:23 PM (6cOMd)

241 nood..

Posted by: kraken at April 26, 2016 03:23 PM (zuTLp)

242 Wage Inflation / Price Inflation are subsets and not the same as general Inflation...

...but the money still has to come from somewhere.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at April 26, 2016 03:24 PM (wB8Tg)

243 239
Inflation is always and everywhere a monetary phenomenon in the sense
that it is and can be produced only by a more rapid increase in the
quantity of money than in output. - Uncle Milton

Posted by: Grump928(c) says Free Soothie!, with purchase of commentor of
equal or greater value at April 26, 2016 03:22 PM (evdj2)

Then why haven't we been experiencing inflation. The FED has been creating money out of thin air like mad since 2008, and yet no inflation.

Posted by: DFCtomm at April 26, 2016 03:25 PM (MJ2pn)

244 I'm taking a Moronic poll: Should I bother to go vote in the Delaware primary today?

Posted by: Blue Hen at April 26, 2016 03:27 PM (326rv)

245 The FED has been creating money out of thin air like mad since 2008, and yet no inflation.

No Official Inflation. It's in the definitions.

Posted by: Grump928(c) says Free Soothie!, with purchase of commentor of equal or greater value at April 26, 2016 03:31 PM (evdj2)

246 Grump, he's moved on to mocking my argument by telling me to fuck off, because he has to plan out how he needs to plan how to break into my bank and steal my money.

He ended up screaming that he doesn't actually want my money (he never explained how that logic worked) and deleting the conversation off facebook.

Tool.

Posted by: Randy Weaver's Revenge at April 26, 2016 03:34 PM (hxUdS)

247 Posted by: Satan of Blutwurst Vt at April 26, 2016 03:20 PM (qSIlh)

It's a combo. You know economics and cost push contributes greatly.. What comes first, shitty monetary policy or the egg?

Posted by: Joe Hallenback at April 26, 2016 03:36 PM (EWRow)

248 Posted by: Blue Hen at April 26, 2016 03:27 PM (326rv)

Yes .

Posted by: Joe Hallenback at April 26, 2016 03:37 PM (EWRow)

249 He ended up screaming that he doesn't actually want my money (he never explained how that logic worked) and deleting the conversation off facebook.

If he unfriended you, it's a win.

Posted by: Grump928(c) says Free Soothie!, with purchase of commentor of equal or greater value at April 26, 2016 03:38 PM (evdj2)

250 245

No Official Inflation. It's in the definitions.

Posted by: Grump928(c) says Free Soothie!, with purchase of commentor of
equal or greater value at April 26, 2016 03:31 PM (evdj2)

I'll grant you that the government manipulates numbers such as the CPI, but if you were to go with shadowstats inflation numbers, and I haven't looked, but I'm willing to bet they're still relatively low. Why?

Posted by: DFCtomm at April 26, 2016 04:04 PM (MJ2pn)

251 but if you were to go with shadowstats inflation numbers, and I haven't looked

Go look. Based on the 1980 method, we're near 10% and have been as high as 13%

Posted by: Grump928(c) notes the misheard lyric at April 26, 2016 04:09 PM (evdj2)

252 Just checked Shadow Stats and we've been hovering around 7.5% , using the 1980s methodology, for a few years now. That's high, but I would still have expected higher.

Posted by: DFCtomm at April 26, 2016 04:16 PM (MJ2pn)

253 251
but if you were to go with shadowstats inflation numbers, and I haven't looked

Go look. Based on the 1980 method, we're near 10% and have been as high as 13%

Posted by: Grump928(c) notes the misheard lyric at April 26, 2016 04:09 PM (evdj2)

I didn't see your comment, but I did check the data. That's high, but not as high as I would have expected for a near extinction level event like 2008 and the massive intervention that followed. There are other forces at work that are mitigating the effect.

Posted by: DFCtomm at April 26, 2016 04:20 PM (MJ2pn)

254 Look, I can prove that the minimum wage is crap with two seconds of thought:

1) The cost of living in every state is not the same. Not the same between states, not the same within states. Not even the same in different parts of a city (say Beverly Hills and East L.A.)
2) Jobs that pay less than the cost of living will have no employees. If you can't survive on the pay, then you won't work there. Jobs that pay more will have applicants.
3) Since the cost of living varies by state and community, the living wage must vary by state and community, reflecting the cost of living and the availability of workers and employment.
4) setting the living wage at a fixed number is idiotic, since it will either be set too high (resulting in less employment) or set to low (in which case it is irrelevant). So minimum wages adversely impact the poor in low cost of living areas. It also has no effect at all in wealthy communities.

Posted by: George Orwell's Ghost at April 26, 2016 04:33 PM (mBzJW)

255 getting rid of min wage may sound good in theory but I would be afraid that the Chamber of Commerce GOP would go bonkers trying to get container ship loads of third worlders here who would work for bags of flour and a roof....

Posted by: azjaeger at April 26, 2016 04:43 PM (e6hZh)

256 244 I'm taking a Moronic poll: Should I bother to go vote in the Delaware primary today?
Posted by: Blue Hen at April 26, 2016 03:27 PM (326rv)

Yes! Write in 'Wendel Wilkie'!

Posted by: the Butcher at April 26, 2016 05:02 PM (AGJqR)

257 I think you underestimate the ingenuity and resourcefulness of people who operate without any morality. There are plenty of businesses who are always trying to lower wages for reasons that have nothing to do with traditional supply/demand relationships. There are mid level managers that literally only care about increasing profit levels. They are under constant pressure to always find a new way to increase profits. they can only raise the price of the product to certain levels before you lose customers (unless the product is a lifesaving drug), and you can only squeeze your suppliers so far before they cannot afford to supply the raw materials any more. So on a regular basis, they look at wages, and try to come up with a way to lower them.

The only thing that matters is driving down cost, in the short term. that is why a large company in my area that employs machinists fired everyone with more than five years experience, while admitting publicly that the cuts were not motivated by economic need. It was about short term increases in dividends. Next quarter, they will be under pressure to try something else.

There are plenty of examples of how far such people will go in search of the tiniest increase in profits. My Grandfather worked in Appalachian coal mines. There is an industry that was not even content to have the workers toil for free. They came up with a system whereby the longer you worked for the company, the more you ended up owing them. There is a reasonable possibility that wherever you work, no matter how productive you think you are, there is someone right now trying to come up with a scheme to have you replaced with someone working for half your wages. And six months after you get laid off, the guy they hired to replace you will be worried about his cheaper replacement. And your plan to go work for the competition failed, because they are doing the same thing. In fact, it only really works when everyone colludes to keep wages dropping. It is in their collective best short term interest to do so. Welcome to the new economy.

Posted by: toadboy at April 26, 2016 05:45 PM (JjqX3)

258 I don't know what's so special about this argument? "If you think I'm wrong, let's do what I want and see what happens" is said all the time about everything. And it's not like the outcome even matters to most people. We saw what happens when we passed Obamacare to see what was in it. Premiums shot up, exchanges collapsed. So now its supporters have done a 180, right? Of course not.

Posted by: This Dave at April 26, 2016 05:56 PM (Um/n9)

259 Indiana has one of the weakest minimum wages. After I got over a portion of my crazy, I started working at the minimum, which USED to be the lowest base value of an employee until they have proven themselves, but because of minimum wage, and the high unemployment in my neighborhood, they had strict enforcement that allowed high turnover, so nobody got any real raises. They used the salesman pitch of bonuses, only I actually achieved those bonuses, and in my one year at this new job, that I took so that I could show that I can take and keep and perform at a job, my annual average wage, while getting promoted, and recieving graduated bonus because I really could deliver, added up to about 18K a year..

It was hard, but I made enough of a living with no external under the table income to continue living a not horrible life. They wanted to keep me, but their business model was based on low employment and minimum wage and high turnover.

I did what I intended, and I kept my promise to my bosses to provide the service I am capable, and I received the wage that they offered. Not the other way around. I work as hard and as well as _I_ can work so that I might grow. The following year, I found new employment and my estimated annual wage was 38K, I didn't finish a full year at my next stage of work, but in about 4 months, at my next step of advancement, I was estimated at about 43K.

Now, getting BACK, granted, my situation is different, I'm getting BACK to where I SHOULD be, but I still had to pay 3 plus years of dues to get BACK to where I used to be, There is no excuse for the youth to bitch about paying dues, and making the effort of starting for the first time and grow and not appreciate the opportunities they can achieve for themselves, but in the matter of 3 years, If I exercise slight discipline and work hard and make it to work and don't bitch about all of the time I get off, but rather make an effort to be present for the time I'm allowed to earn a living, I have nearly quintupled my annual income.

I have my opinion about it, but there is my story so far, in the last three years.

Posted by: wickedpinto at April 26, 2016 09:18 PM (wdvFT)

260 So, what up tonjiht?

Posted by: Tim in GA at April 27, 2016 01:51 AM (YLidQ)

261 Sorry, tonight.

Posted by: Tim in GA at April 27, 2016 01:52 AM (YLidQ)

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