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Does Mass Transit Actually Save Energy? Maybe Not! [CBD]
Light rail, high speed trains, and the newest idiocy here in NY...a street car for Brooklyn and Queens...they are all unalloyed great things in the eyes of government. So what if they actually don't save any energy, and cost orders of magnitude more than the proven technology of the automobile. Coyoteblog is quite the contrarian when it comes to government investment in most things, and mass transit is one of his favorite targets. As he points out:
The key issue turns out to be occupancy -- how full is the train or bus. And it turns out that occupancy is probably lower than most people think. That is because everyone rides on buses or trains as they commute -- they are going in the direction of most people's travel at the time of day they travel, so the transit is totally full. But no one thinks about those trains having to go back the other direction, usually mostly empty. As a result, we get to this fact, from the National Transit Database as synthesized by Randal O'Toole. 2014 Energy Use per Passenger Mile Transit: 3141 BTUThat's most of his post, but head over there and read it and follow his links. The actual data, as opposed to the pie-in-the-sky projections produced by biased government planners, are damning. We do have one system that works quite well: the American freight rail system is efficient and fast. But that's because that pesky thing called "The Market" is allowed to control its success or failure.
Driving: 3144 BTU Valley Metro Rail here in Phoenix does better, at a reported 1885 BTU per passenger mile. As reported many times here on this site, the cost of building this rail line, now well over one and a half billion dollars, would easily have bought every round trip rider a new Prius, with a lot of money left over. This would have saved more energy as well. Buses in Phoenix are averaging just over 6000 BTU per passenger mile.
Comments
(Jump to bottom of comments)1
No, next question
Posted by: Skip at February 27, 2016 11:15 AM (fizMZ)
2
I'll get the other survivors from the political blood bath.
Posted by: Skip at February 27, 2016 11:15 AM (fizMZ)
Posted by: Bossy Conservative....tortured American at February 27, 2016 11:16 AM (+1T7c)
4
Mass transit is kinda like 'Green Energy", nice idea but not the quite the savior it is touted to be. LMAO
Posted by: Nevergiveup at February 27, 2016 11:17 AM (DUoqb)
5
No, but the opportunities for graft and corruption are excellent.
Posted by: the guy that moves pianos for a living at February 27, 2016 11:17 AM (tEDMc)
6
To take a page from ObamaCare, the obvious solution is mandatory commutes. You will be assigned a route and time. Failure to commute will have a penalty.
Don't need to go there? Tough luck, Citizen.
Don't need to go there? Tough luck, Citizen.
Posted by: Pappy O'Daniel at February 27, 2016 11:19 AM (oVJmc)
7
But, Mass Transit is progressive! It saves energy! It will stop Global Warming!
I am amused on my morning commute to see the Columbus buses (COTA- Central Ohio Transit Authority - why always the Authority?), and how EMPTY they are. And they all have tinted glass to prevent you from seeing that.
But they are all powered by Methane now (CNG), so they are clean and not smelly diesels. Smelly diesels. Probably more efficient and cost less.
I am amused on my morning commute to see the Columbus buses (COTA- Central Ohio Transit Authority - why always the Authority?), and how EMPTY they are. And they all have tinted glass to prevent you from seeing that.
But they are all powered by Methane now (CNG), so they are clean and not smelly diesels. Smelly diesels. Probably more efficient and cost less.
Posted by: Bossy Conservative....tortured American at February 27, 2016 11:20 AM (+1T7c)
8
SEPTA is always screaming for money, but their biggest budget item is manpower costs. Unions can suck the life blood out of any operation.
Posted by: Skip at February 27, 2016 11:20 AM (fizMZ)
9
Speaking of Energy and liberals letting shit slide:
VANDENBERG AIR FORCE BASE, Calif. In describing how little room the Pentagon has to extend the life of its decades-old nuclear forces, the top U.S. nuclear war-fighting commander, Navy Adm. Cecil Haney, says were at the brick wall stage.
Time to begin modernizing the countrys nuclear weapons is running short, he and other Pentagon leaders say. They contend the force is still in fighting shape safe, reliable and effective is the official mantra. But they also argue the time has come to begin modernizing the force or risk eroding its credibility as a deterrent to attack by others.
VANDENBERG AIR FORCE BASE, Calif. In describing how little room the Pentagon has to extend the life of its decades-old nuclear forces, the top U.S. nuclear war-fighting commander, Navy Adm. Cecil Haney, says were at the brick wall stage.
Time to begin modernizing the countrys nuclear weapons is running short, he and other Pentagon leaders say. They contend the force is still in fighting shape safe, reliable and effective is the official mantra. But they also argue the time has come to begin modernizing the force or risk eroding its credibility as a deterrent to attack by others.
Posted by: Nevergiveup at February 27, 2016 11:20 AM (DUoqb)
10
Please, VP Joey Choo-Choo dreams happily every evening (after his day of eating paste) of earnestly chuffing choo-choos filled with happypeons people. Don't spoil his dreams!
Please, VP Joey Choo-Choo dreams happily every evening (after his day of eating paste) of earnestly chuffing choo-choos filled with happy
Posted by: The Place With The Helpful Hardware Man at February 27, 2016 11:21 AM (BK3ZS)
11
>>>>they are clean and not smelly diesels.<<<<
I love the smell of diesel. It smells like shit getting done.
I love the smell of diesel. It smells like shit getting done.
Posted by: the guy that moves pianos for a living at February 27, 2016 11:22 AM (tEDMc)
12
Here is thought this was a No Trump Zone,
The guy who rides in private jets, limos, helicopters should have no opinion how I get around.
The guy who rides in private jets, limos, helicopters should have no opinion how I get around.
Posted by: Skip at February 27, 2016 11:22 AM (fizMZ)
13
But they also argue the time has come to begin
modernizing the force or risk eroding its credibility as a deterrent to
attack by others.
Posted by: Nevergiveup
He'll be branded some kind of genocidal warmonger for saying that.
modernizing the force or risk eroding its credibility as a deterrent to
attack by others.
Posted by: Nevergiveup
He'll be branded some kind of genocidal warmonger for saying that.
Posted by: Bossy Conservative....tortured American at February 27, 2016 11:22 AM (+1T7c)
14
Central planning rarely works, and even where it works, the invisible hand would most likely have done just as well.
Posted by: Grump928(C) says Free Soothie! at February 27, 2016 11:22 AM (rwI+c)
15
Instead of buying every public transportation commuter a Prius and having money left over, they should have bought every public transportation commuter a Tesla and maxed out their budget. Kids these days! Don't they know anything?
Posted by: Obnoxious A-Hole at February 27, 2016 11:25 AM (QHgTq)
16
Transit: 3141 BTU
Driving: 3144 BTU
I love math. It brings out the sweet sweet tears of liberals which nourish my sole soul. No fancy footwork necessary.
Driving: 3144 BTU
I love math. It brings out the sweet sweet tears of liberals which nourish my
Posted by: mega machines at February 27, 2016 11:26 AM (fbovC)
17
I love shit like this.
Oh you love science, you dogmatic progressive zealot?
What
Does
The data
Actually
Say?
Oh you love science, you dogmatic progressive zealot?
What
Does
The data
Actually
Say?
Posted by: Ghost of kari - WAR at February 27, 2016 11:27 AM (ubByS)
18
They have all kinds of worthless mass transit around me.
None of them are ever full or even close to it.
Why?
Because the city wasn't built around mass transit like in the NYC etc.
They'd have to tear down half the city to get mass transit to be viable-
or have the Mole People from the paradise at the Center of the Earth dig the tunnels. Cuz those Mole People dig good tunnels and work cheap.
Literally, to use mass transit in this city- I would have to add over an hour most days to get to work.
That is two hours of my day, at best, completely wasted.
Yeah, no thanks.
and apparently, everyone else has figured out the same thing.
Huge waste of energy. But, a beautiful generator of corruption and sweet sweet graft and bribery-
so we got that working for us.
None of them are ever full or even close to it.
Why?
Because the city wasn't built around mass transit like in the NYC etc.
They'd have to tear down half the city to get mass transit to be viable-
or have the Mole People from the paradise at the Center of the Earth dig the tunnels. Cuz those Mole People dig good tunnels and work cheap.
Literally, to use mass transit in this city- I would have to add over an hour most days to get to work.
That is two hours of my day, at best, completely wasted.
Yeah, no thanks.
and apparently, everyone else has figured out the same thing.
Huge waste of energy. But, a beautiful generator of corruption and sweet sweet graft and bribery-
so we got that working for us.
Posted by: naturalfake at February 27, 2016 11:27 AM (KUa85)
19
*fistbumps mega machine*
Posted by: Ghost of kari - WAR at February 27, 2016 11:27 AM (ubByS)
20
Mass transit works well in cities like Boston and NYC where the cities have grown with mass transit and because of geography building more roads or even parking lots is problematic. But gluing on a mass transit system to a city with lots of capacity to accommodate cars never seem to work all that well.
Posted by: JackStraw at February 27, 2016 11:28 AM (/tuJf)
21
With the amount of money wasted on Fredocare, they could have insured all the uninsured without fucking with everyone else's health insurance
Posted by: Nevergiveup at February 27, 2016 11:28 AM (DUoqb)
22
Early OT but I wish that Marine would have told Bill Clinton ' you don't have any room to talk. You abandon us in Somalia' and then walked out on his own.
Somalia still bothers the crap out of me.
Somalia still bothers the crap out of me.
Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck at February 27, 2016 11:28 AM (MNgU2)
23
Posted by: Skip at February 27, 2016 11:22 AM (fizMZ)
It was you who brought up the T-word while having the effrontry to complain about the lack of a no T-word zone. Cognitive dissonance could power so much of this economy if only a way to harness it could be created.
Posted by: Skip at February 27, 2016 11:22 AM (fizMZ)
It was you who brought up the T-word while having the effrontry to complain about the lack of a no T-word zone. Cognitive dissonance could power so much of this economy if only a way to harness it could be created.
Posted by: The Place With The Helpful Hardware Man at February 27, 2016 11:28 AM (BK3ZS)
24
By the way some "Mass transit" is NOT so cheap. Ever take the NY Waterway?
Posted by: Nevergiveup at February 27, 2016 11:29 AM (DUoqb)
25
I didn't read the whole article, but you also have to factor in the fuel burned for maintenance of tracks and infrastructure. I'm sure it's significant.
The light rail in my community is a complete waste, and a crime super-highway: The once decent mall on its stop is now unsafe because of the gangs and shoplifters. Their security costs have gone through the roof.
The light rail in my community is a complete waste, and a crime super-highway: The once decent mall on its stop is now unsafe because of the gangs and shoplifters. Their security costs have gone through the roof.
Posted by: Brave Sir Robin at February 27, 2016 11:29 AM (SeD0w)
26
They had huge drop in ridership in socal. Why? Fun employment which no one will mention. Also, public transit is not cheap and takes a lot of time and effort. The buses and service is very nice but getting to the stops is very difficult for people like me.
Posted by: Bruce With a Wang! at February 27, 2016 11:29 AM (iQIUe)
27
Mass transit is another example of the
"In theory, there's no difference between theory and practice.
In practice, there is!"
principle.
"In theory, there's no difference between theory and practice.
In practice, there is!"
principle.
Posted by: Hrothgarace at February 27, 2016 11:29 AM (wYnyS)
28
To bring it back OT, Houston has wasted over a billion on our useless , I'll-designed rail system.
Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck at February 27, 2016 11:29 AM (MNgU2)
29
When I lived in a large metro area I very much liked the smaller "busetas" which were private bus services - probably had a load of graft to get permits and huge entry barriers - that ran set routes.
Very flexible, often very crowded so well utilized, and so convenient that the drivers were told to only let people off at the stops because they were clogging up traffic.
And not tied to rails, pantographs and elevated ADA certified platforms.
One section of the town had electric streetcars with the overhead wire and the pantograph, but they didn't spread out of the one area. Probably too expensive.
Does Uber allow drivers to declare daily routes? That would be the bomb for commuters.
Very flexible, often very crowded so well utilized, and so convenient that the drivers were told to only let people off at the stops because they were clogging up traffic.
And not tied to rails, pantographs and elevated ADA certified platforms.
One section of the town had electric streetcars with the overhead wire and the pantograph, but they didn't spread out of the one area. Probably too expensive.
Does Uber allow drivers to declare daily routes? That would be the bomb for commuters.
Posted by: Kindltot at February 27, 2016 11:30 AM (q2o38)
30
ill . Freaking auto-c--t.
Posted by: Joe Hallenbeck at February 27, 2016 11:31 AM (MNgU2)
31
Does Uber allow drivers to declare daily routes?
Only the ones with multiple traffic violations who carry weapons and are homicidal.
Only the ones with multiple traffic violations who carry weapons and are homicidal.
Posted by: Nevergiveup at February 27, 2016 11:31 AM (DUoqb)
32
Well, I can fold space to transit my mass, no rails, wheels, or wings necessary.
Posted by: 3rd Stage Navigator Chris Christie at February 27, 2016 11:31 AM (LyiQq)
33
Posted by: Nevergiveup at February 27, 2016 11:29 AM (DUoqb)
It's ridiculously expensive, but it is fun.
It's ridiculously expensive, but it is fun.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at February 27, 2016 11:32 AM (Zu3d9)
34
If you look at Santa Clara County VTA Light Rail, much of the day you have very nearly as many transit cops in cars patrolling the line as you have riders.
Posted by: JEM at February 27, 2016 11:32 AM (o+SC1)
35
The light rail in my community is a complete waste, and a crime super-highway: The once decent mall on its stop is now unsafe because of the gangs and shoplifters.
Light rail - bringing the jobs to the suburbs that the suburbanites won't do themselves!
Do we see a theme here?
The light rail in my community is a complete waste, and a crime super-highway: The once decent mall on its stop is now unsafe because of the gangs and shoplifters.
Light rail - bringing the jobs to the suburbs that the suburbanites won't do themselves!
Do we see a theme here?
Posted by: The Place With The Helpful Hardware Man at February 27, 2016 11:32 AM (BK3ZS)
36
As much as people don't like buses, and they are stinky and annoying if you are sharing the road with them, they do offer one of the few options for low income folks to get around.
The high speed rail nonsense has everything to do with federal politicians promising to throw money at a thing, and cities/metro areas deciding to chase that federal money, whether their community needs high speed rail or not. And subsequently, these very same communities cut back on buses.
Buses are not sexy, and yeah, probably not terribly efficient in many ways. But you can ignore low income transit if you like, I can understand from a libertarian view why one would, but if you are going to fund ANYTHING at a community level, I would think this would be a thing one would consider. Not sexy rails. Boring old buses.
The high speed rail nonsense has everything to do with federal politicians promising to throw money at a thing, and cities/metro areas deciding to chase that federal money, whether their community needs high speed rail or not. And subsequently, these very same communities cut back on buses.
Buses are not sexy, and yeah, probably not terribly efficient in many ways. But you can ignore low income transit if you like, I can understand from a libertarian view why one would, but if you are going to fund ANYTHING at a community level, I would think this would be a thing one would consider. Not sexy rails. Boring old buses.
Posted by: BurtTC at February 27, 2016 11:33 AM (TOk1P)
37
It's ridiculously expensive, but it is fun.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at February 27, 2016 11:32 AM (Zu3d9)
Yup and the "free" busses to elsewhere in NYC is great but I can NEVER find a return bus?
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at February 27, 2016 11:32 AM (Zu3d9)
Yup and the "free" busses to elsewhere in NYC is great but I can NEVER find a return bus?
Posted by: Nevergiveup at February 27, 2016 11:33 AM (DUoqb)
38
Idiots in Dallas are always whining about moving the Rangers to Dallas so they can use light rail to go to games.
I hate them.
I hate them.
Posted by: Lauren at February 27, 2016 11:34 AM (vA1V9)
Posted by: Ray Nagin at February 27, 2016 11:34 AM (wYnyS)
40
>>Mass transit works well in cities like Boston and NYC where the cities
have grown with mass transit and because of geography building more
roads or even parking lots is problematic. But gluing on a mass transit
system to a city with lots of capacity to accommodate cars never seem to
work all that well.
THIS.
The lightrail in Denver is not that useful because it was only (fairly) recently built, so it's path was dictated by available land and politics, not commuting patterns. It will become more useful once they get the part that will go out to the airport, but I doubt it will ever be well-used or more energy efficient than cars.
have grown with mass transit and because of geography building more
roads or even parking lots is problematic. But gluing on a mass transit
system to a city with lots of capacity to accommodate cars never seem to
work all that well.
THIS.
The lightrail in Denver is not that useful because it was only (fairly) recently built, so it's path was dictated by available land and politics, not commuting patterns. It will become more useful once they get the part that will go out to the airport, but I doubt it will ever be well-used or more energy efficient than cars.
Posted by: Lizzy at February 27, 2016 11:35 AM (NOIQH)
41
Central planning rarely works
It works great "every time it's tried!" For central planners, of course.
It works great "every time it's tried!" For central planners, of course.
Posted by: t-acebird at February 27, 2016 11:35 AM (mxCgt)
42
Not sure where Uber like competitor guy picked up two women, let's one off at destination and forcefully takes off with other one taking her knowingly in wrong direction. She jumped out at stop sign, company dismissed driver. Was on local news this morning.
Posted by: Skip at February 27, 2016 11:36 AM (fizMZ)
43
Ugh buses are awful too. I used to live off S. Congress St in Austin. Every single time I went anywhere I'd get stuck behind a bus at least 3 times. And who rode these buses? Hobos, exclusively.
Posted by: Lauren at February 27, 2016 11:37 AM (vA1V9)
44
Google Maps is the greatest anti-transit selling tool yet developed, because it'll map transit routes.
And when it does, if you're anywhere but downtown or next to a heavy-rail station or one stop from your destination, you see that driving is 19 minutes without traffic, 31 minutes with traffic, and over 2 hours by transit, at which point everyone who has a choice heads for the car.
It would be interesting, if one could get the data, to compare ridership for the local public bus service with the fleets of white buses running up and down US 101 on the SF Peninsula.
And when it does, if you're anywhere but downtown or next to a heavy-rail station or one stop from your destination, you see that driving is 19 minutes without traffic, 31 minutes with traffic, and over 2 hours by transit, at which point everyone who has a choice heads for the car.
It would be interesting, if one could get the data, to compare ridership for the local public bus service with the fleets of white buses running up and down US 101 on the SF Peninsula.
Posted by: JEM at February 27, 2016 11:37 AM (o+SC1)
45
Mass transit benefits the poor and unions.
Posted by: Pappy O'Daniel at February 27, 2016 11:38 AM (oVJmc)
46
In order to get from my house to my former place of work on public transit - bus, in my case - I had to ride a bus into downtown Wilmington and then catch another bus out to the DuPont Experimental Station. Total transit time, including waiting, was an hour and the distance traveled was at least 3x more than driving myself.
Why? Because the buses use a hub-and-spokes routing model and they are not ever lijely to implement anything but that model.
In order to get from my house to my former place of work on public transit - bus, in my case - I had to ride a bus into downtown Wilmington and then catch another bus out to the DuPont Experimental Station. Total transit time, including waiting, was an hour and the distance traveled was at least 3x more than driving myself.
Why? Because the buses use a hub-and-spokes routing model and they are not ever lijely to implement anything but that model.
Posted by: The Place With The Helpful Hardware Man at February 27, 2016 11:38 AM (BK3ZS)
47
As much as people don't like buses...they do offer one of the few options for low income folks to get around.
And by carefully controlling the routes, you can keep the smelly people out of your neighborhood!
And by carefully controlling the routes, you can keep the smelly people out of your neighborhood!
Posted by: The Supreme Council of Local Superintendants at February 27, 2016 11:38 AM (mxCgt)
48
3
Skip? First again?
What does he know, and when did he know it?
Posted by: Bossy Conservative....tortured American at February 27, 2016 11:16 AM (+1T7c)
with the luxurious Iridium membership, you get an auto-first app for the HQ
Skip? First again?
What does he know, and when did he know it?
Posted by: Bossy Conservative....tortured American at February 27, 2016 11:16 AM (+1T7c)
with the luxurious Iridium membership, you get an auto-first app for the HQ
Posted by: chemjeff - PuppyMonkeyBaby '16 at February 27, 2016 11:38 AM (uZNvH)
49
The Metro in DC is pretty good for local traffic
Posted by: Nevergiveup at February 27, 2016 11:38 AM (DUoqb)
50
the fleets of white buses running up and down US 101
Just build up in the City, Google, and spare us the damned buses.
Just build up in the City, Google, and spare us the damned buses.
Posted by: t-acebird at February 27, 2016 11:39 AM (mxCgt)
51
23- either a comment was pulled (happens) or I'm totally wrong probably jumping around today's threads mixing up content.
Posted by: Skip at February 27, 2016 11:40 AM (fizMZ)
52
@20 Mass transit works well in cities like Boston and NYC ...
Uh, no. Mass transit, to the extent it "works" in Boston, is only so because driving in-and-around Boston is so flipping disgustingly painful it makes ones head explode simply thinking about it. The commuter rail is "OK" at best, the Orwellianly-named "rapid transit" subway system is an epic disaster and don't even get me started on the busses.
Uh, no. Mass transit, to the extent it "works" in Boston, is only so because driving in-and-around Boston is so flipping disgustingly painful it makes ones head explode simply thinking about it. The commuter rail is "OK" at best, the Orwellianly-named "rapid transit" subway system is an epic disaster and don't even get me started on the busses.
Posted by: DocJ at February 27, 2016 11:40 AM (5Nr9V)
53
Boring old buses.
Posted by: BurtTC at February 27, 2016 11:33 AM (TOk1P)
Buses, who needs them!
Posted by: Ray Nagin at February 27, 2016 11:34 AM (wYnyS)
What if they were CHOCOLATE buses, fake Ray Nagin?
Posted by: BurtTC at February 27, 2016 11:33 AM (TOk1P)
Buses, who needs them!
Posted by: Ray Nagin at February 27, 2016 11:34 AM (wYnyS)
What if they were CHOCOLATE buses, fake Ray Nagin?
Posted by: BurtTC at February 27, 2016 11:41 AM (TOk1P)
54
Firsts are not always hard if you pay attention, or if your awarded one.
Posted by: Skip at February 27, 2016 11:41 AM (fizMZ)
55
Speaking of transportation, electricity and smelly diesels, the trains that carry the container traffic that arrives at the Port of Long Beach east to the rest of the country run in this concrete trench in order to minimize the noise that people along the route are subjected to and so that the roads that cross the route do not have their traffic stopped and can proceed without bridges or underpasses.
The trains that run through there are pulled by diesel-electric locomotives, that is a diesel engine powers a generator or alternator which powers the electric motors (traditionally DC) on the power axles. These sorts of locomotives are quite conducive to drawing electricity from overhead wires instead of onboard generated power.
If that concrete ditch through Los Angeles were equipped with overhead power wires and the trains running through there turned off their diesel engines or swapped out locomotives at the end of the electric line, that would probably make a noticeable difference in the amount of diesel exhaust that is released into the LA Basin. Given how power plants produce a base level of electricity 24/7 even when there is not enough demand from about 11 PM to 6 AM, trains running during low demand times would actually be using free electricity.
Anyway. It is not happening and I don't expect it to happen. Instead I expect CARB to find new ways to make life in Southern California more unpleasant and to grow their bureaucratic fiefdom.
The trains that run through there are pulled by diesel-electric locomotives, that is a diesel engine powers a generator or alternator which powers the electric motors (traditionally DC) on the power axles. These sorts of locomotives are quite conducive to drawing electricity from overhead wires instead of onboard generated power.
If that concrete ditch through Los Angeles were equipped with overhead power wires and the trains running through there turned off their diesel engines or swapped out locomotives at the end of the electric line, that would probably make a noticeable difference in the amount of diesel exhaust that is released into the LA Basin. Given how power plants produce a base level of electricity 24/7 even when there is not enough demand from about 11 PM to 6 AM, trains running during low demand times would actually be using free electricity.
Anyway. It is not happening and I don't expect it to happen. Instead I expect CARB to find new ways to make life in Southern California more unpleasant and to grow their bureaucratic fiefdom.
Posted by: Obnoxious A-Hole at February 27, 2016 11:41 AM (QHgTq)
56
>> The lightrail in Denver is not that useful because it was
>> only (fairly) recently built, so it's path was dictated by
>> available land and politics, not commuting patterns.
Once upon a time, the (privately owned) railroads/streetcar lines and the towns grew organically. Someone built a new development, the railroad threw up a line to serve it. There was lots of friction but that thing called the market usually worked it out.
Then you had the advent of municipally owned transit that'd get political favoritism over the private operators, and the Depression, then WWII wore out the railroads and it was a better ROI for them to sell off their land than to rebuild.
>> only (fairly) recently built, so it's path was dictated by
>> available land and politics, not commuting patterns.
Once upon a time, the (privately owned) railroads/streetcar lines and the towns grew organically. Someone built a new development, the railroad threw up a line to serve it. There was lots of friction but that thing called the market usually worked it out.
Then you had the advent of municipally owned transit that'd get political favoritism over the private operators, and the Depression, then WWII wore out the railroads and it was a better ROI for them to sell off their land than to rebuild.
Posted by: JEM at February 27, 2016 11:42 AM (o+SC1)
57
Firsts are not always hard if you pay attention, or if your awarded one.
Posted by: Skip at February 27, 2016 11:41 AM (fizMZ)
Also not hard if you don't give a damn.
Posted by: Skip at February 27, 2016 11:41 AM (fizMZ)
Also not hard if you don't give a damn.
Posted by: BurtTC at February 27, 2016 11:43 AM (TOk1P)
58
People are also more creative and flexible than mass transit, as you can see with the DC sluggers. Had friends who did this for years (commuting in to DC daily) and never had a problems w/anyone they picked up.
No money exchanged.
No regulation, management by bureaucrats.
You can imagine how much city officials haaaate that
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slugging
No money exchanged.
No regulation, management by bureaucrats.
You can imagine how much city officials haaaate that
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slugging
Posted by: Lizzy at February 27, 2016 11:43 AM (NOIQH)
59
They use to have ferry service between SF, Marin, Berkeley, and Richmond. I think only Marin/SF is still operating and it is not cheap. Still nice way to commute if you can afford it.
Posted by: Bruce With a Wang! at February 27, 2016 11:43 AM (iQIUe)
60
Much like the public "education" system, the mass transit systems in most (all?) major cities have precisely nothing to do with their stated reason for existing in the first place (that being, moving people into and out of said major city) and everything to do with employing as many otherwise unemployable, unionized Democrat primary voters as possible.
Posted by: DocJ at February 27, 2016 11:44 AM (5Nr9V)
61
What if they were CHOCOLATE buses, fake Ray Nagin?
Posted by: BurtTC at February 27, 2016 11:41 AM (TOk1P)
Now you're talkin' my language, brother!
Posted by: BurtTC at February 27, 2016 11:41 AM (TOk1P)
Now you're talkin' my language, brother!
Posted by: Ray Nagin at February 27, 2016 11:44 AM (wYnyS)
62
This guy was an acquaintance of mine:
Terry Randall Schulte
February 11, 1947 - February 22, 2016
Surrounded by family and close friends, Terry Randall Schulte passed on February 22, 2016, at the age of 69, after a long battle with leukemia.
. . .
He served in the US Army from June 1965 to December 1973, where he served in Korea, Germany, Vietnam, as well as stateside. Terry was part of the Vietnam Counteroffensive Phases III, IV, V, VII, and the Tet Counteroffensive. He was awarded four Purple Hearts (but only accepted two), the Airborne Jump Wings, Good Conduct Medal, Vietnamese Cross of Gallantry, Presidential Citation Air Medal, and a Combat Infantry Badge."
He was awarded four Purple Hearts (but only accepted two)
I guess he didn't have the Horseface Kerry scratch = medal philosophy.
Terry Randall Schulte
February 11, 1947 - February 22, 2016
Surrounded by family and close friends, Terry Randall Schulte passed on February 22, 2016, at the age of 69, after a long battle with leukemia.
. . .
He served in the US Army from June 1965 to December 1973, where he served in Korea, Germany, Vietnam, as well as stateside. Terry was part of the Vietnam Counteroffensive Phases III, IV, V, VII, and the Tet Counteroffensive. He was awarded four Purple Hearts (but only accepted two), the Airborne Jump Wings, Good Conduct Medal, Vietnamese Cross of Gallantry, Presidential Citation Air Medal, and a Combat Infantry Badge."
He was awarded four Purple Hearts (but only accepted two)
I guess he didn't have the Horseface Kerry scratch = medal philosophy.
Posted by: The Great White Snark at February 27, 2016 11:44 AM (Nwg0u)
63
I don't despise mass trans, I see many people around work sites that absolutely need it.
Posted by: Skip at February 27, 2016 11:45 AM (fizMZ)
64
I wouldn't mind more mass transit options for intermediate-distance travel. Say, between St. Louis and Chicago. It's a hassle to fly, but it is also a pain to drive.
Posted by: chemjeff - PuppyMonkeyBaby '16 at February 27, 2016 11:45 AM (uZNvH)
Posted by: eleven at February 27, 2016 11:46 AM (qUNWi)
66
They had this thing in Berkely where cars would pick up two people which would allow them to cross bridge for free and in the express lane. It was great.
Posted by: Bruce With a Wang! at February 27, 2016 11:46 AM (iQIUe)
67
I went shopping yesterday and bought the kind of chocolate for baking my wife wanted and I also bought some white chocolate that I like for baking and my wife just came in to "yell" at me that nobody likes the white chocolate????I guess I am considered a nobody?
Posted by: Nevergiveup at February 27, 2016 11:47 AM (DUoqb)
68
Probably the greatest waste of tax dollars is going to be (or someday) California's High Speed Rail...Maybe not local transit, but they tell of how many cars will be taken off the roads because of this boondoggle. Billions and Billions and I doubt it will ever run a train from San Francisco to Las Angles, ever. Lots of tax payers dollars just to keep it running, if it is ever finished.
Posted by: colin at February 27, 2016 11:47 AM (VqjZf)
69
Posted by: Bruce With a Wang! at February 27, 2016 11:46 AM (iQIUe)
Or just use an inflatable doll in the back seat and use the carpool lane anyway.
Or just use an inflatable doll in the back seat and use the carpool lane anyway.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at February 27, 2016 11:48 AM (Zu3d9)
70
Posted by: Nevergiveup at February 27, 2016 11:47 AM (DUoqb)
What's your name again? You look vaguely familiar, but...
What's your name again? You look vaguely familiar, but...
Posted by: Hrothgarace at February 27, 2016 11:48 AM (wYnyS)
71
"46
In order to get from my house to my former place of work on public
transit - bus, in my case - I had to ride a bus into downtown Wilmington
and then catch another bus out to the DuPont Experimental Station.
Total transit time, including waiting, was an hour and the distance
traveled was at least 3x more than driving myself.
Why? Because the buses use a hub-and-spokes routing model and they are not ever lijely to implement anything but that model.
Posted by: The Place With The Helpful Hardware Man at February 27, 2016 11:38 AM (BK3ZS)"
I have often wondered why public transportation systems do not add a set of buses that drive around the ring roads that most cities have, driving from shopping mall to shopping mall and connecting to the spoke routes at the shopping malls that are at the intersections of busy roads. Plenty of parking, more people coming to the mall and bus routes that go closer to where people live and want to go to.
In order to get from my house to my former place of work on public
transit - bus, in my case - I had to ride a bus into downtown Wilmington
and then catch another bus out to the DuPont Experimental Station.
Total transit time, including waiting, was an hour and the distance
traveled was at least 3x more than driving myself.
Why? Because the buses use a hub-and-spokes routing model and they are not ever lijely to implement anything but that model.
Posted by: The Place With The Helpful Hardware Man at February 27, 2016 11:38 AM (BK3ZS)"
I have often wondered why public transportation systems do not add a set of buses that drive around the ring roads that most cities have, driving from shopping mall to shopping mall and connecting to the spoke routes at the shopping malls that are at the intersections of busy roads. Plenty of parking, more people coming to the mall and bus routes that go closer to where people live and want to go to.
Posted by: Obnoxious A-Hole at February 27, 2016 11:48 AM (QHgTq)
72
Mass transit = confined spaces where women can be groped and everyone can be pickpockets.
No wonder Dems love it.
No wonder Dems love it.
Posted by: votacemom at February 27, 2016 11:48 AM (cbfNE)
73
48 with the luxurious Iridium membership, you get an auto-first app for the HQ
Posted by: chemjeff - PuppyMonkeyBaby '16 at February 27, 2016 11:38 AM (uZNvH)
With all his newfound spare time since he's eschewed Twitter, perhaps ace could prepare a brochure that lists all the nembership options here at AoSHQ. Silver, gold, titanium, platinum, iridium -- I've seen all these mentioned -- and yet, no matter what I sign up for the performance always seems to be "cardboard".
Why is that?
* "You'll get cardboard and you'll like it! -- Minx 0.7 alpha *
48 with the luxurious Iridium membership, you get an auto-first app for the HQ
Posted by: chemjeff - PuppyMonkeyBaby '16 at February 27, 2016 11:38 AM (uZNvH)
With all his newfound spare time since he's eschewed Twitter, perhaps ace could prepare a brochure that lists all the nembership options here at AoSHQ. Silver, gold, titanium, platinum, iridium -- I've seen all these mentioned -- and yet, no matter what I sign up for the performance always seems to be "cardboard".
Why is that?
* "You'll get cardboard and you'll like it! -- Minx 0.7 alpha *
Posted by: The Place With The Helpful Hardware Man at February 27, 2016 11:48 AM (BK3ZS)
Posted by: eleven at February 27, 2016 11:49 AM (qUNWi)
75
My main experience with mass transit was Disney World. It worked *Great* (really, it did) unless it was late, or you had a wheelchair (because the depots were fairly far from the park entrances) or wanted to go any place other than the park entrances. I figure that if a place as relatively contained and with as much incentive to get it right as possible couldn't make it work 1/3 of the time, there was no hope for really effective mass transport in the US. The countries where it works are much smaller and have more compact living arrangements as well as smaller populations.
Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette at February 27, 2016 11:50 AM (GDulk)
76
"I guess I am considered a nobody?
Posted by: Nevergiveup at February 27, 2016 11:47 AM (DUoqb)"
Correct in one.
For a happy family it is important to understand where everybody fits in.
Posted by: Nevergiveup at February 27, 2016 11:47 AM (DUoqb)"
Correct in one.
For a happy family it is important to understand where everybody fits in.
Posted by: Obnoxious A-Hole at February 27, 2016 11:50 AM (QHgTq)
77
White chocolate or strawberry licorice, first word has nothing to do with second in either.
Posted by: Skip at February 27, 2016 11:51 AM (fizMZ)
78
And then there's the crime problem. LA's Blue Line, for example, is notorious for its problems with this.
The mass transit to help ghetto denizens get to their jobs - liberals say that without laughing - also provides a conduit to promote the mobility of the criminally inclined, their wonders to achieve.
http://tinyurl.com/jt53wk9
The mass transit to help ghetto denizens get to their jobs - liberals say that without laughing - also provides a conduit to promote the mobility of the criminally inclined, their wonders to achieve.
http://tinyurl.com/jt53wk9
Posted by: Jay Guevara at February 27, 2016 11:51 AM (oKE6c)
Posted by: Lizzy at February 27, 2016 11:52 AM (NOIQH)
80
68
I forget where they are starting the train. Corcoran? Really?
I also hate CARB. they are making us destroy older tractors. We have to crush them. I wonder how poor farmers will buy used tractors?
I forget where they are starting the train. Corcoran? Really?
I also hate CARB. they are making us destroy older tractors. We have to crush them. I wonder how poor farmers will buy used tractors?
Posted by: CaliGirl at February 27, 2016 11:52 AM (egOGm)
81
Mass Transit is all about control. How you go, where you go, when you go. Every Libturd is for it, every common sense individuals are meh about it.
Ever ride a bus? Subway? MARTA?.....like visiting some dystopian novel for the time you spend riding one.
Now ass transit, that's another story.
Ever ride a bus? Subway? MARTA?.....like visiting some dystopian novel for the time you spend riding one.
Now ass transit, that's another story.
Posted by: Hairyback Guy at February 27, 2016 11:52 AM (ej1L0)
82
What's wrong with white chocolate, even if it isn't technically chocolate?
I like it...
Posted by: Lizzy at February 27, 2016 11:52 AM (NOIQH)
That's #WhitePrivilegeChocolate to you!
I like it...
Posted by: Lizzy at February 27, 2016 11:52 AM (NOIQH)
That's #WhitePrivilegeChocolate to you!
Posted by: Hrothgarace at February 27, 2016 11:53 AM (wYnyS)
83
Polliwog, thanks for answering my question about tumblr and integral yesterday (or was it the other day)? I saw it after a couple np odd had gone by.
Posted by: votermom at February 27, 2016 11:53 AM (cbfNE)
84
Posted by: Obnoxious A-Hole at February 27, 2016 11:48 AM (QHgTq)
Go to any large park, or college campus with a big green in the middle.
The paved pathways rarely match the routes people actually take. Just look at the pathways worn into the grass.....
Go to any large park, or college campus with a big green in the middle.
The paved pathways rarely match the routes people actually take. Just look at the pathways worn into the grass.....
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at February 27, 2016 11:53 AM (Zu3d9)
85
If you like it get it, life's to short to not get the little things you want.
Posted by: Skip at February 27, 2016 11:53 AM (fizMZ)
86
I wonder how poor farmers will buy used tractors?
Posted by: CaliGirl at February 27, 2016 11:52 AM (egOGm)
Crony capitalism works in not so mysterious ways!
Wanna buy a Chinese tractor cheap?
Posted by: CaliGirl at February 27, 2016 11:52 AM (egOGm)
Crony capitalism works in not so mysterious ways!
Wanna buy a Chinese tractor cheap?
Posted by: Hrothgarace at February 27, 2016 11:54 AM (wYnyS)
87
Nevergiveup, I took a chance and bought some Milka white chocolate, and even though Milka is pretty wonderful in the regular chocolate, toffee, and espresso variants (they are, after all made in the land of chocolate) the white chocolate tasted like sweetened, solidified mayonnaise.
High quality mayonnaise, mind you, probably made by elves in the land of chocolate, but still mayonnaise.
High quality mayonnaise, mind you, probably made by elves in the land of chocolate, but still mayonnaise.
Posted by: Kindltot at February 27, 2016 11:54 AM (q2o38)
88
I wouldn't mind more mass transit options for
intermediate-distance travel. Say, between St. Louis and Chicago. It's a
hassle to fly, but it is also a pain to drive.
Posted by: chemjeff - PuppyMonkeyBaby '16 at February 27, 2016 11:45 AM (uZNvH)
Once upon a time, when Barack Hussein Obama was shiny and new, that was one of the routes that was on the approved list of high speed, city to city traffic. I'm sure billions of dollars have been pulled out of our great-grandchildren's futures, and put in the hands of shovel-ready Democrat donors.
I have no idea if anything has been done to put in the lines.
intermediate-distance travel. Say, between St. Louis and Chicago. It's a
hassle to fly, but it is also a pain to drive.
Posted by: chemjeff - PuppyMonkeyBaby '16 at February 27, 2016 11:45 AM (uZNvH)
Once upon a time, when Barack Hussein Obama was shiny and new, that was one of the routes that was on the approved list of high speed, city to city traffic. I'm sure billions of dollars have been pulled out of our great-grandchildren's futures, and put in the hands of shovel-ready Democrat donors.
I have no idea if anything has been done to put in the lines.
Posted by: BurtTC at February 27, 2016 11:54 AM (TOk1P)
89
It almost always ends in food, or a political brawl
Posted by: Skip at February 27, 2016 11:55 AM (fizMZ)
90
>>And then there's the crime problem. LA's Blue Line, for example, is notorious for its problems with this.
Yeah, had family in Atlanta, and IIRC the crime stats for the neighborhood w/in a 1 mile radius of the BART stations were bad.
Yeah, had family in Atlanta, and IIRC the crime stats for the neighborhood w/in a 1 mile radius of the BART stations were bad.
Posted by: Lizzy at February 27, 2016 11:55 AM (NOIQH)
91
California's High Speed Rail, I always joke about getting from Merced to Chowchilla for a billion or two....from there on, who knows.
Posted by: colin at February 27, 2016 11:55 AM (VqjZf)
92
It's all about Big Brother telling you where you can go and when you can go there.
Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at February 27, 2016 11:56 AM (FkBIv)
93
Chowchilla sounds like prison food.
Posted by: eleven at February 27, 2016 11:56 AM (qUNWi)
94
I note the linked article doesn't deal with the possible difference in times of the two commutes. Half a lifetime ago I lived in Skokie and worked in downtown Chicago. I could spend an hour and a half commuting on the Skokie Swift and El or forty-five minutes driving in the comfort of my own car.
No contest.
No contest.
Posted by: creeper at February 27, 2016 11:57 AM (Vd733)
95
You got chocolate in my transit thread!
You got transit talk in my chocolate!
Time to choose your weapons - who wants the hammers and who wants the tongs?
You got chocolate in my transit thread!
You got transit talk in my chocolate!
Time to choose your weapons - who wants the hammers and who wants the tongs?
Posted by: The Place With The Helpful Hardware Man at February 27, 2016 11:57 AM (BK3ZS)
96
Go to any large park, or college campus with a big green in the middle.
The paved pathways rarely match the routes people actually take. Just look at the pathways worn into the grass.....
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at February 27, 2016 11:53 AM (Zu3d9)
I was once told it was clear I had been in the Army. I asked how, thinking it was my military bearing or whatever. No, it was obvious to this person because I never walked on the grass.
The paved pathways rarely match the routes people actually take. Just look at the pathways worn into the grass.....
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at February 27, 2016 11:53 AM (Zu3d9)
I was once told it was clear I had been in the Army. I asked how, thinking it was my military bearing or whatever. No, it was obvious to this person because I never walked on the grass.
Posted by: BurtTC at February 27, 2016 11:57 AM (TOk1P)
97
We have to crush them. I wonder how poor farmers will buy used tractors?
Posted by: CaliGirl at February 27, 2016 11:52 AM (egOGm)
They won't. They will have to sell out to agribusinesses that might keep them on as sharecroppers. Or borrow from lending institutions that will essentially do the same. Or will direct their operations as a condition of the loan.
and this makes me furious.
Posted by: CaliGirl at February 27, 2016 11:52 AM (egOGm)
They won't. They will have to sell out to agribusinesses that might keep them on as sharecroppers. Or borrow from lending institutions that will essentially do the same. Or will direct their operations as a condition of the loan.
and this makes me furious.
Posted by: Kindltot at February 27, 2016 11:57 AM (q2o38)
98
29 When I lived in a large metro area I very much liked the smaller "busetas" which were private bus services - probably had a load of graft to get permits and huge entry barriers - that ran set routes.
--
What kind of vehicles are they?
--
What kind of vehicles are they?
Posted by: votermom at February 27, 2016 11:57 AM (cbfNE)
99
Mass trans, barely works in the heavy populated North East, but their always screaming for rate increases.
Posted by: Skip at February 27, 2016 11:58 AM (fizMZ)
100
"60
Much like the public "education" system, the mass transit systems in
most (all?) major cities have precisely nothing to do with their stated
reason for existing in the first place (that being, moving people into
and out of said major city) and everything to do with employing as many
otherwise unemployable, unionized Democrat primary voters as possible.
Posted by: DocJ at February 27, 2016 11:44 AM (5Nr9V)"
My wife worked at a bus company in one of the cities we lived in. Her boss told her one day that she was glad that it was not until she learned what a good worker she was that she found out that my wife was a Republican because she never would have hired her if she had known.
The customers of the bus company were the various government agencies that provided the bulk of the money. The people who rode on the buses were viewed as merely an irritant and they would have been perfectly happy to drive around empty buses every day.
Much like the public "education" system, the mass transit systems in
most (all?) major cities have precisely nothing to do with their stated
reason for existing in the first place (that being, moving people into
and out of said major city) and everything to do with employing as many
otherwise unemployable, unionized Democrat primary voters as possible.
Posted by: DocJ at February 27, 2016 11:44 AM (5Nr9V)"
My wife worked at a bus company in one of the cities we lived in. Her boss told her one day that she was glad that it was not until she learned what a good worker she was that she found out that my wife was a Republican because she never would have hired her if she had known.
The customers of the bus company were the various government agencies that provided the bulk of the money. The people who rode on the buses were viewed as merely an irritant and they would have been perfectly happy to drive around empty buses every day.
Posted by: Obnoxious A-Hole at February 27, 2016 11:58 AM (QHgTq)
101
He was awarded four Purple Hearts (but only accepted two)
I guess he didn't have the Horseface Kerry scratch = medal philosophy.
Posted by: The Great White Snark at February 27, 2016 11:44 AM (Nwg0u)
May your friend rest in peace.
I guess he didn't have the Horseface Kerry scratch = medal philosophy.
Posted by: The Great White Snark at February 27, 2016 11:44 AM (Nwg0u)
May your friend rest in peace.
Posted by: Sherry McEvil, Stiletto Corsettes now franchising Lulu Snackbars at February 27, 2016 11:58 AM (kXoT0)
102
Agenda 21.
Posted by: Pappy O'Daniel at February 27, 2016 11:59 AM (oVJmc)
103
CARB is essentially running a cash for clunkers program.
Posted by: CaliGirl at February 27, 2016 11:59 AM (egOGm)
104
If your blood pressure is low and you need a boost mosey over to weasel zippers and watch Bill Clinton and a crowd in South Carolina shout down a marine asking about Benghazi
Posted by: ThunderB at February 27, 2016 11:59 AM (zOTsN)
105
Chowchilla sounds like prison food.
Posted by: eleven at February 27, 2016 11:56 AM (qUNWi)
Or a cloning experiment involving dogs and spiders that went terribly terribly wrong.
Posted by: eleven at February 27, 2016 11:56 AM (qUNWi)
Or a cloning experiment involving dogs and spiders that went terribly terribly wrong.
Posted by: BurtTC at February 27, 2016 12:00 PM (TOk1P)
106
Passenger Train travel couldn't compete against the Model T
Drive across the US multiple times, there is no places other than the Northeast Corridor, Chicago and Metro LA that have the population density and city density to justify a passenger/commuter rail service. It would be prohibitively expensive to do it in LA at this point
Drive across the US multiple times, there is no places other than the Northeast Corridor, Chicago and Metro LA that have the population density and city density to justify a passenger/commuter rail service. It would be prohibitively expensive to do it in LA at this point
Posted by: EF Harriman at February 27, 2016 12:00 PM (12kBq)
107
Posted by: Kindltot at February 27, 2016 11:57 AM (q2o3
"Poor" farmers shouldn't have to live under those stressful conditions, far better that a donor corporation manage the land for them so they can relax, max out their EBT cards, and let a sweet socialist state take care of them!
"Poor" farmers shouldn't have to live under those stressful conditions, far better that a donor corporation manage the land for them so they can relax, max out their EBT cards, and let a sweet socialist state take care of them!
Posted by: Hrothgarace at February 27, 2016 12:00 PM (wYnyS)
108
The people who rode on the buses were viewed as merely an irritant and they would have been perfectly happy to drive around empty buses every day.
Hawwy Weidism ("keep those stinky tourists away from us") right there in a nutshell.
The people who rode on the buses were viewed as merely an irritant and they would have been perfectly happy to drive around empty buses every day.
Hawwy Weidism ("keep those stinky tourists away from us") right there in a nutshell.
Posted by: The Place With The Helpful Hardware Man at February 27, 2016 12:01 PM (BK3ZS)
109
"93
Chowchilla sounds like prison food.
Posted by: eleven at February 27, 2016 11:56 AM (qUNWi)"
Made out of dogs. Or spiders.
Chowchilla sounds like prison food.
Posted by: eleven at February 27, 2016 11:56 AM (qUNWi)"
Made out of dogs. Or spiders.
Posted by: Obnoxious A-Hole at February 27, 2016 12:01 PM (QHgTq)
110
What kind of vehicles are they?
Posted by: votermom at February 27, 2016 11:57 AM (cbfNE)
Back in the day in the PI they had "jeepneys" which were any old military surplus vehicles or such painted in bright colors with all kinds of Flippo crap hanging here and there. Like an amusement park taxi ride.
Posted by: votermom at February 27, 2016 11:57 AM (cbfNE)
Back in the day in the PI they had "jeepneys" which were any old military surplus vehicles or such painted in bright colors with all kinds of Flippo crap hanging here and there. Like an amusement park taxi ride.
Posted by: Hairyback Guy at February 27, 2016 12:02 PM (ej1L0)
111
>>Uh, no. Mass transit, to the extent it "works" in Boston, is only so because driving in-and-around Boston is so flipping disgustingly painful it makes ones head explode simply thinking about it. The commuter rail is "OK" at best, the Orwellianly-named "rapid transit" subway system is an epic disaster and don't even get me started on the busses.
Not really. I lived around Boston for about 40 years and in the city itself for 19 of those years. The MBTA is a really good transit system and you can get anywhere. When I had my offie in the city I took the T to virtually all my customers, the airport, to the Garden, to just about anything. I hardly ever drove unless I was heading to the ocean.
Back in the 40's (I think, might have been the 50's) there was rail service to Boston from the South Shore. They took it down when they put in Rte 3 because the magic of cars. As the area grew with commuters a commute from the Plymouth area by car could take up to 2 hours on a bad day. In 2007/8 they put the trains back in service and they were so popular from day 1 they doubled the number of trips within weeks.
Some places it works, some not.
Not really. I lived around Boston for about 40 years and in the city itself for 19 of those years. The MBTA is a really good transit system and you can get anywhere. When I had my offie in the city I took the T to virtually all my customers, the airport, to the Garden, to just about anything. I hardly ever drove unless I was heading to the ocean.
Back in the 40's (I think, might have been the 50's) there was rail service to Boston from the South Shore. They took it down when they put in Rte 3 because the magic of cars. As the area grew with commuters a commute from the Plymouth area by car could take up to 2 hours on a bad day. In 2007/8 they put the trains back in service and they were so popular from day 1 they doubled the number of trips within weeks.
Some places it works, some not.
Posted by: JackStraw at February 27, 2016 12:02 PM (/tuJf)
Posted by: Insomniace at February 27, 2016 12:03 PM (0mRoj)
113
Yeah, had family in Atlanta, and IIRC the crime stats for the neighborhood w/in a 1 mile radius of the BART stations were bad.
Posted by: Lizzy at February 27, 2016 11:55 AM (NOIQH)
It's MARTA--just to be a nitpicker. I was in Atlanta for two years on an IT project. I always took MARTA to the airport--Because 1996 OLYMPICS. During that time period, they had a major push to keep MARTA clean and safe, so it was. The route to the airport went through some dismal neighborhoods, but, I never felt unsafe on the train.
Posted by: Lizzy at February 27, 2016 11:55 AM (NOIQH)
It's MARTA--just to be a nitpicker. I was in Atlanta for two years on an IT project. I always took MARTA to the airport--Because 1996 OLYMPICS. During that time period, they had a major push to keep MARTA clean and safe, so it was. The route to the airport went through some dismal neighborhoods, but, I never felt unsafe on the train.
Posted by: Sherry McEvil, Stiletto Corsettes now franchising Lulu Snackbars at February 27, 2016 12:03 PM (kXoT0)
114
There should be an Uber carpool option.
Posted by: votermom at February 27, 2016 12:03 PM (cbfNE)
115
If you have ever been to West New York, across the river from Manhattan, most of the little buses are run privately, its a Hispanic city, so you have many, many little buses, I believe a buck a ride. Probably the way its done in Mexico, etc. actually it works, and the wait is short, because there are so many of these small buses..Never seen that anywhere else in the USA.
Posted by: colin at February 27, 2016 12:03 PM (VqjZf)
116
90 >>And then there's the crime problem. LA's Blue Line, for example, is notorious for its problems with this.
Yeah, had family in Atlanta, and IIRC the crime stats for the neighborhood w/in a 1 mile radius of the BART stations were bad.
Posted by: Lizzy at February 27, 2016 11:55 AM (NOIQH)
IIRC, a similar thing happened in St. Louis (chemjeff can probably comment on this) when it built a light rail system. You could trace the route by the jump in crime stats. Sort of a criminal angiogram, it was.
Yeah, had family in Atlanta, and IIRC the crime stats for the neighborhood w/in a 1 mile radius of the BART stations were bad.
Posted by: Lizzy at February 27, 2016 11:55 AM (NOIQH)
IIRC, a similar thing happened in St. Louis (chemjeff can probably comment on this) when it built a light rail system. You could trace the route by the jump in crime stats. Sort of a criminal angiogram, it was.
Posted by: Jay Guevara at February 27, 2016 12:03 PM (oKE6c)
117
Share cropping is illegal. What they do now is lease their land to you. You have to use the owners sales company @ .25 cents a box or 8%. Also use the owners cooler @ $1.50 a box. Plus rent.
Posted by: CaliGirl at February 27, 2016 12:04 PM (egOGm)
118
Back in the day in the PI they had "jeepneys" which were any old military surplus vehicles or such painted in bright colors with all kinds of Flippo crap hanging here and there. Like an amusement park taxi ride.
Posted by: Hairyback Guy at February 27, 2016 12:02 PM (ej1L0)
Pretty sure they still have them.
Posted by: Hairyback Guy at February 27, 2016 12:02 PM (ej1L0)
Pretty sure they still have them.
Posted by: votermom at February 27, 2016 12:04 PM (cbfNE)
119
I see mass transit more as a benefit, like welfare, for people who can't afford a car or are for some other reason unable to drive. It doesn't cut down on traffic where I live but the abuelitas use the bus to get to work.
Posted by: stace at February 27, 2016 12:05 PM (c80mr)
120
I see mass transit more as a benefit, like welfare, for people who can't
afford a car or are for some other reason unable to drive.
And for cronies of those distributing funds, e.g., unions.
afford a car or are for some other reason unable to drive.
And for cronies of those distributing funds, e.g., unions.
Posted by: Jay Guevara at February 27, 2016 12:06 PM (oKE6c)
121
They save beaucratic wnwegy. Largw 'public' works projects are great waya to burn tax payer vaah and hisw graft.
Posted by: Jean at February 27, 2016 12:06 PM (k/F75)
122
They save beaucratic wnwegy. Largw 'public' works projects are great waya to burn tax payer vaah and hisw graft.
Check your home keys.
/My 8th Grade Typing Teacher
Check your home keys.
/My 8th Grade Typing Teacher
Posted by: Pappy O'Daniel at February 27, 2016 12:07 PM (oVJmc)
123
They save beaucratic wnwegy. Largw 'public' works projects are great waya to burn tax payer vaah and hisw graft.
wut
wut
Posted by: eleven at February 27, 2016 12:08 PM (qUNWi)
Posted by: The Place With The Helpful Hardware Man at February 27, 2016 12:09 PM (BK3ZS)
125
Btw the math and memory skills of a Filipino heroine driver are amazing. He's driving a vehicle and in the rearview mirror he keeps track of when passengers get on and where they are gonna get off and how much they owe him coz fare is proportional to distance.
This while the radio is blaring and sometimes he is reading a paperback at stops.
This while the radio is blaring and sometimes he is reading a paperback at stops.
Posted by: votermom at February 27, 2016 12:10 PM (cbfNE)
126
The paved pathways rarely match the routes people actually take. Just look at the pathways worn into the grass.....
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at February 27, 2016 11:53 AM (Zu3d9)
Then if a city or school has a smart planner, those paths get made into sidewalks. It's like watching an intersection over time wherein the high concrete curbs get destroyed by large trucks driving over the top of them to make a turn, then watch them get replaced a number of times until someone decides to replace the brittle curbs/grass combination with a sloping curved all concrete solution that the truck tires easily roll over.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at February 27, 2016 11:53 AM (Zu3d9)
Then if a city or school has a smart planner, those paths get made into sidewalks. It's like watching an intersection over time wherein the high concrete curbs get destroyed by large trucks driving over the top of them to make a turn, then watch them get replaced a number of times until someone decides to replace the brittle curbs/grass combination with a sloping curved all concrete solution that the truck tires easily roll over.
Posted by: Sherry McEvil, Stiletto Corsettes now franchising Lulu Snackbars at February 27, 2016 12:10 PM (kXoT0)
127
OT & Sorry CBD.
I've asked for prayers for my friend Gayle, who was diagnosed with Stage IV brain cancer the size of a golf ball in November. She had brain surgery November 12 & the surgeons could only remove 80% of the tumor.
She passed away today at 3:58 am, her husband Paul updated her FB page today.
Thank you all for your prayers,.
I've asked for prayers for my friend Gayle, who was diagnosed with Stage IV brain cancer the size of a golf ball in November. She had brain surgery November 12 & the surgeons could only remove 80% of the tumor.
She passed away today at 3:58 am, her husband Paul updated her FB page today.
Thank you all for your prayers,.
Posted by: Carol at February 27, 2016 12:10 PM (sj3Ax)
128
You know how China is planning to ship goods from inland manufacturing cities to the Ports?
Cargo planes...
It's cheaper to build runway than 50-100 miles of rail line. Also creates a much more complex network than could be built by rail or highways.
Rail is great for moving raw materials that don't have water access. (like here in the US) Not so good for finished goods - hence
Cargo planes...
It's cheaper to build runway than 50-100 miles of rail line. Also creates a much more complex network than could be built by rail or highways.
Rail is great for moving raw materials that don't have water access. (like here in the US) Not so good for finished goods - hence
Posted by: Bill Boeing at February 27, 2016 12:10 PM (12kBq)
129
O/T: I call this video "Essence of an AoSHQ Trump Thread".
https://youtu.be/0f8xnaDIAow
(Possibly NSFW, for fowl language.)
https://youtu.be/0f8xnaDIAow
(Possibly NSFW, for fowl language.)
Posted by: Brother Cavil, hither and yon at February 27, 2016 12:11 PM (D0J8L)
130
Sorry about your friend Carol.
Posted by: eleven at February 27, 2016 12:12 PM (qUNWi)
131
Carol,
Oh Carol, I am so sorry for your loss. Prayers for Gayle and family.
Oh Carol, I am so sorry for your loss. Prayers for Gayle and family.
Posted by: CaliGirl at February 27, 2016 12:13 PM (egOGm)
132
127 OT & Sorry CBD.
I've asked for prayers for my friend Gayle, who was diagnosed with Stage IV brain cancer the size of a golf ball in November. She had brain surgery November 12 & the surgeons could only remove 80% of the tumor.
She passed away today at 3:58 am, her husband Paul updated her FB page today.
Thank you all for your prayers,.
Posted by: Carol at February 27, 2016 12:10 PM (sj3Ax)
I'm sorry for the loss of your friend.
I've asked for prayers for my friend Gayle, who was diagnosed with Stage IV brain cancer the size of a golf ball in November. She had brain surgery November 12 & the surgeons could only remove 80% of the tumor.
She passed away today at 3:58 am, her husband Paul updated her FB page today.
Thank you all for your prayers,.
Posted by: Carol at February 27, 2016 12:10 PM (sj3Ax)
I'm sorry for the loss of your friend.
Posted by: Insomniace at February 27, 2016 12:13 PM (0mRoj)
133
Carol, may your friend rest in peace.
Posted by: Sherry McEvil, Stiletto Corsettes now franchising Lulu Snackbars at February 27, 2016 12:13 PM (kXoT0)
134
What kind of vehicles are they?
Posted by: votermom at February 27, 2016 11:57 AM (cbfNE)
I don't remember the make, but they were essentially 25 seat diesel powered short buses. They had the look of a shoebox. They were about the size of an SF streetcar, if I remember correctly - it was 30 years ago.
Posted by: votermom at February 27, 2016 11:57 AM (cbfNE)
I don't remember the make, but they were essentially 25 seat diesel powered short buses. They had the look of a shoebox. They were about the size of an SF streetcar, if I remember correctly - it was 30 years ago.
Posted by: Kindltot at February 27, 2016 12:13 PM (q2o38)
135
I work on a Marine Corps base - the Federal gub'mint has something called the Transportation Incentive Program, wherein people are subsidized, based on the distance between their home and Cherry Point, to ride a van pool to work. We adopted it here because parking is at a premium and the office people who come in at 8 got tired of losing all the primo spaces to the mechanics who come in at 5.
Posted by: antisocialist at February 27, 2016 12:13 PM (cDs+4)
136
Passenger Train travel couldn't compete against the Model T
Picking a scab, right there. You'll never see it mentioned, but for a whole generation 100 years ago there was a series of "Traction Trust" scandals that made the automobile what it is today (or, what it was 50 years ago). Funny, those things were still taught when I was in college, but you'll google in vain to find them now.
In one chapter of Sister Carrie, the ruined rich guy is trying to eke out a living as a motorman, and gets hit in the head with a rock during a strike. Dreiser was writing while working as a reporter in the next big town south of Detroit, and the streetcar strike was ripped from his own headlines.
My grandfather, an ex-lumberjack and New England horse trader, cleaned up during that crisis. The were putting on special trains to bring used cars, any used cars, to town because people were so mad they just plain swore off riding public transit. The awful cars dumped into the market were still a burden ten years later. Grampa may or may not have been responsible for some of those.
Midwestern cities were built around railroads and streetcars -- and horses. All the adaptation to parking lots and freeways happened because people had, with full knowledge, voted with their pocketbooks not to to rail any more, under the circumstances with which it was offered. It was kind of a big deal.
The resulting usual "sufficient opportunities for graft" made parking lot barons and Interstate billionaires, of course -- people had to learn that lesson. But when customers went heavily for private cars after WWI, they were striking a blow for liberty, not just from "drudgery" but from bureaucracy and cronism too.
Picking a scab, right there. You'll never see it mentioned, but for a whole generation 100 years ago there was a series of "Traction Trust" scandals that made the automobile what it is today (or, what it was 50 years ago). Funny, those things were still taught when I was in college, but you'll google in vain to find them now.
In one chapter of Sister Carrie, the ruined rich guy is trying to eke out a living as a motorman, and gets hit in the head with a rock during a strike. Dreiser was writing while working as a reporter in the next big town south of Detroit, and the streetcar strike was ripped from his own headlines.
My grandfather, an ex-lumberjack and New England horse trader, cleaned up during that crisis. The were putting on special trains to bring used cars, any used cars, to town because people were so mad they just plain swore off riding public transit. The awful cars dumped into the market were still a burden ten years later. Grampa may or may not have been responsible for some of those.
Midwestern cities were built around railroads and streetcars -- and horses. All the adaptation to parking lots and freeways happened because people had, with full knowledge, voted with their pocketbooks not to to rail any more, under the circumstances with which it was offered. It was kind of a big deal.
The resulting usual "sufficient opportunities for graft" made parking lot barons and Interstate billionaires, of course -- people had to learn that lesson. But when customers went heavily for private cars after WWI, they were striking a blow for liberty, not just from "drudgery" but from bureaucracy and cronism too.
Posted by: Stringer Davis at February 27, 2016 12:14 PM (xq1UY)
137
Posted by: Brother Cavil, hither and yon at February 27, 2016 12:11 PM (D0J8L)
"Why birds acquired from Joe Pesci are always returned for a refund"
Posted by: Brother Cavil, hither and yon at February 27, 2016 12:11 PM (D0J8L)
"Why birds acquired from Joe Pesci are always returned for a refund"
Posted by: The Place With The Helpful Hardware Man at February 27, 2016 12:14 PM (BK3ZS)
138
Oh, look. MUMR had another convulsion on his keyboard.
Posted by: AlaBAMA at February 27, 2016 12:14 PM (pUDQf)
139
Votermom,
What is a heroine driver?
What is a heroine driver?
Posted by: CaliGirl at February 27, 2016 12:15 PM (egOGm)
140
I work on a Marine Corps base - the Federal gub'mint has something called the Transportation Incentive Program, wherein people are subsidized, based on the distance between their home and Cherry Point, to ride a van pool to work. We adopted it here because parking is at a premium and the office people who come in at 8 got tired of losing all the primo spaces to the mechanics who come in at 5.
Posted by: antisocialist at February 27, 2016 12:13 PM (cDs+4)
I was a Cherry Point 2 years ago.
Posted by: antisocialist at February 27, 2016 12:13 PM (cDs+4)
I was a Cherry Point 2 years ago.
Posted by: Nevergiveup at February 27, 2016 12:15 PM (DUoqb)
141
I'm so sorry for your loss, Carol.
Posted by: votermom at February 27, 2016 12:16 PM (cbfNE)
142
Carol, prayers for Gayle family. May His mercy follow them all the days hereafter.
Posted by: Brother Cavil, hither and yon at February 27, 2016 12:16 PM (D0J8L)
143
Coyote Ugly doesn't get it.
Transit is there for the Little Brown People...our cheap labor and docile servants.
Transit is there for the Little Brown People...our cheap labor and docile servants.
Posted by: GOPe at February 27, 2016 12:16 PM (Yt+zw)
144
139 Votermom,
What is a heroine driver?
Posted by: CaliGirl at February 27, 2016 12:15 PM (egOGm)
--
Eek!
Heroine = jeepney
Auto cucumber is killing me
What is a heroine driver?
Posted by: CaliGirl at February 27, 2016 12:15 PM (egOGm)
--
Eek!
Heroine = jeepney
Auto cucumber is killing me
Posted by: votermom at February 27, 2016 12:17 PM (cbfNE)
145
RIP.
Posted by: Pappy O'Daniel at February 27, 2016 12:17 PM (oVJmc)
146
Two Palestinian terrorists attempted a drive-by shooting on an Israeli car near Maalei Adumim, east of Jerusalem, late Saturday.
For reasons as yet unknown the terrorists were prevented from opening fire, and fled the scene.
No one was injured in the incident.
Security forces are currently staging an extensive manhunt for the pair.
The terrorists fled in the direction of Jerusalem, prompting police to erect checkpoints along all routes into the capital.
For reasons as yet unknown the terrorists were prevented from opening fire, and fled the scene.
No one was injured in the incident.
Security forces are currently staging an extensive manhunt for the pair.
The terrorists fled in the direction of Jerusalem, prompting police to erect checkpoints along all routes into the capital.
Posted by: Nevergiveup at February 27, 2016 12:17 PM (DUoqb)
147
Then if a city or school has a smart planner, those paths get made into sidewalks. It's like watching an intersection over time wherein the high concrete curbs get destroyed by large trucks driving over the top of them to make a turn, then watch them get replaced a number of times until someone decides to replace the brittle curbs/grass combination with a sloping curved all concrete solution that the truck tires easily roll over.
Posted by: Sherry McEvil, Stiletto Corsettes now franchising Lulu Snackbars at February 27, 2016 12:10 PM (kXoT0)
That's good design.
Smart landscape architects convince "campi" to not install sidewalks around a new building. Grass it all, and build the walks year two.
Saves on grass. Saves on useless concrete. Plus, you end up with more organic shapes... rarely sharp angles.
Posted by: Sherry McEvil, Stiletto Corsettes now franchising Lulu Snackbars at February 27, 2016 12:10 PM (kXoT0)
That's good design.
Smart landscape architects convince "campi" to not install sidewalks around a new building. Grass it all, and build the walks year two.
Saves on grass. Saves on useless concrete. Plus, you end up with more organic shapes... rarely sharp angles.
Posted by: MarkY at February 27, 2016 12:17 PM (KeVib)
148
I was a Cherry Point 2 years ago.
Posted by: Nevergiveup at February 27, 2016 12:15 PM (DUoqb)
I've worked at the FRC for over 30 years, husband retired from the Marine Corps and works here, too. Best job I've ever had, except for the idiot upper management.
Posted by: Nevergiveup at February 27, 2016 12:15 PM (DUoqb)
I've worked at the FRC for over 30 years, husband retired from the Marine Corps and works here, too. Best job I've ever had, except for the idiot upper management.
Posted by: antisocialist at February 27, 2016 12:18 PM (cDs+4)
149
Votermom,
I'm not familiar with mass transit, at first I thought you were impressed with a drug dealers math skills.
I'm not familiar with mass transit, at first I thought you were impressed with a drug dealers math skills.
Posted by: CaliGirl at February 27, 2016 12:19 PM (egOGm)
Posted by: eleven at February 27, 2016 12:19 PM (qUNWi)
151
Public transportation is horribly expensive and also a boondoggle meant to enrich the Donald Trumps of the building and rail worlds at the expense of taxpayers... the same is true "green" energy.
Posted by: redbanzai at February 27, 2016 12:19 PM (NPofj)
152
Did yiu ever nitice that autocucumber never corrects "autocucumber"?
Is that because that is what it wants to be called? Who is serving whom, eh?
Did yiu ever nitice that autocucumber never corrects "autocucumber"?
Is that because that is what it wants to be called? Who is serving whom, eh?
Posted by: The Place With The Helpful Hardware Man at February 27, 2016 12:20 PM (BK3ZS)
Posted by: Jay Guevara at February 27, 2016 12:20 PM (oKE6c)
Posted by: eleven at February 27, 2016 12:20 PM (qUNWi)
155
Oy.
Posted by: Pappy O'Daniel at February 27, 2016 12:20 PM (oVJmc)
156
We do have one system that works quite well: the American freight rail system is efficient and fast. But that's because that pesky thing called "The Market" is allowed to control its success or failure.
Also because it is actually possible to make a profit moving freight. Passenger service, even in the Golden Age of railroads, always operated at a loss and was offered as a public-relations gesture and prestige item by the railways, I believe.
Also because it is actually possible to make a profit moving freight. Passenger service, even in the Golden Age of railroads, always operated at a loss and was offered as a public-relations gesture and prestige item by the railways, I believe.
Posted by: Grey Fox at February 27, 2016 12:21 PM (bZ7mE)
157
Thank you all for your prayers,
Love Carol
Love Carol
Posted by: Carol at February 27, 2016 12:21 PM (sj3Ax)
158
That is a very rapid progression from diagnosis to passing. Carol, I hope her family has as much support as they need. There is no good way to die, and brain tumors can go to hell as far as I'm concerned. Still, I'm hoping she had as much peace as the universe could grant while she went through it, and has reached the ultimate of love and peace now that she is beyond it.
Posted by: BurtTC at February 27, 2016 12:22 PM (TOk1P)
159
Posted by: Stringer Davis at February 27, 2016 12:14 PM (xq1UY)
It's not mentioned in the rail history books I read, but then again they focus on the freight side and the named interstate passenger trains, which were primarily a luxury for the rich, and created significant operating issues on a freight network.
It's not mentioned in the rail history books I read, but then again they focus on the freight side and the named interstate passenger trains, which were primarily a luxury for the rich, and created significant operating issues on a freight network.
Posted by: EF Harriman at February 27, 2016 12:23 PM (12kBq)
160
Also because it is actually possible to make a
profit moving freight. Passenger service, even in the Golden Age of
railroads, always operated at a loss and was offered as a
public-relations gesture and prestige item by the railways, I believe.
Posted by: Grey Fox at February 27, 2016 12:21 PM (bZ7mE)
Because people don't like getting slowly shifted around at 3 am. Freight, not so much.
profit moving freight. Passenger service, even in the Golden Age of
railroads, always operated at a loss and was offered as a
public-relations gesture and prestige item by the railways, I believe.
Posted by: Grey Fox at February 27, 2016 12:21 PM (bZ7mE)
Because people don't like getting slowly shifted around at 3 am. Freight, not so much.
Posted by: Jay Guevara at February 27, 2016 12:23 PM (oKE6c)
161
Posted by: EF Harriman at February 27, 2016 12:23 PM (12kBq)
I believe that you owe me some back pay for hazardous duty.
-- Woodcock
Posted by: EF Harriman at February 27, 2016 12:23 PM (12kBq)
I believe that you owe me some back pay for hazardous duty.
-- Woodcock
Posted by: The Place With The Helpful Hardware Man at February 27, 2016 12:24 PM (BK3ZS)
162
Grey Fox is right. The railroaders' joke is "People just don't weigh enough."
But by golly we're trying.
But by golly we're trying.
Posted by: Stringer Davis at February 27, 2016 12:25 PM (xq1UY)
163
OT: I have a beehive in my rental trailer. Got it cleaned out this morning but still have a lot of bees.
What wiil kill bees?
What wiil kill bees?
Posted by: tbodie at February 27, 2016 12:25 PM (GHHRC)
164
Public transportation is horribly expensive and also a boondoggle meant to enrich the Donald Trumps of the building and rail worlds at the expense of taxpayers... the same is true "green" energy.
Posted by: redbanzai at February 27, 2016 12:19 PM (NPofj)
Damn that horrible rich man Trump. How awful he is for being wealthy! Is he the new "Bush" for 2016?
Posted by: redbanzai at February 27, 2016 12:19 PM (NPofj)
Damn that horrible rich man Trump. How awful he is for being wealthy! Is he the new "Bush" for 2016?
Posted by: Hairyback Guy at February 27, 2016 12:25 PM (ej1L0)
165
Votermom, this is what they looked like.
I can't believe how old I've gotten. They don't much look like this anymore I gather.
http://preview.tinyurl.com/hkoqndq
I can't believe how old I've gotten. They don't much look like this anymore I gather.
http://preview.tinyurl.com/hkoqndq
Posted by: Kindltot at February 27, 2016 12:25 PM (q2o38)
166
But by golly we're trying.
Shhh! Don't give away our secret!
-- The Tripartite Evil Axis of Big Fructose, Big Rail and Big Gulps
But by golly we're trying.
Shhh! Don't give away our secret!
-- The Tripartite Evil Axis of Big Fructose, Big Rail and Big Gulps
Posted by: The Place With The Helpful Hardware Man at February 27, 2016 12:27 PM (BK3ZS)
167
OT: I have a beehive in my rental trailer. Got it cleaned out this morning but still have a lot of bees.
What wiil kill bees?
Mongoose.
What wiil kill bees?
Mongoose.
Posted by: eleven at February 27, 2016 12:27 PM (qUNWi)
168
>>Also because it is actually possible to make a profit moving freight. Passenger service, even in the Golden Age of railroads, always operated at a loss and was offered as a public-relations gesture and prestige item by the railways, I believe.
The only section of the AMTRAK network that makes money is the Northeast Corridor. AMTRAK recently signed a deal with Alstom for new high speed locos that will be built in upstate NY.
The only section of the AMTRAK network that makes money is the Northeast Corridor. AMTRAK recently signed a deal with Alstom for new high speed locos that will be built in upstate NY.
Posted by: JackStraw at February 27, 2016 12:28 PM (/tuJf)
169
Because people don't like getting slowly shifted around at 3 am. Freight, not so much.
Posted by: Jay Guevara at February 27, 2016 12:23 PM (oKE6c)
Passenger rail service would be much more affordable if only they waited until the trains were 100% full before leaving.
Posted by: Jay Guevara at February 27, 2016 12:23 PM (oKE6c)
Passenger rail service would be much more affordable if only they waited until the trains were 100% full before leaving.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at February 27, 2016 12:28 PM (Zu3d9)
170
the weight of two train wheels and an axle is about the same as the pair of jet engines on a 737
Posted by: Bill Boeing at February 27, 2016 12:28 PM (12kBq)
171
OT: I have a beehive in my rental trailer. Got it cleaned out this morning but still have a lot of bees.
What wiil kill bees?
Mongoose.
Posted by: eleven at February 27, 2016 12:27 PM (qUNWi)
Giant wasps and fire ants.
What wiil kill bees?
Mongoose.
Posted by: eleven at February 27, 2016 12:27 PM (qUNWi)
Giant wasps and fire ants.
Posted by: Kindltot at February 27, 2016 12:28 PM (q2o38)
172
Probably the greatest waste of tax dollars is going to be (or someday) California's High Speed Rail...Maybe not local transit, but they tell of how many cars will be taken off the roads because of this boondoggle. Billions and Billions and I doubt it will ever run a train from San Francisco to Las Angles, ever. Lots of tax payers dollars just to keep it running, if it is ever finished.
Posted by: colin at February 27, 2016 11:47 AM (VqjZf)
The CA HSR system has two purposes, and two purposes only. First and foremost of course is graft, and getting the right people rich off of construction. Hell, the second season of True Detective revolved around the corruption inherent in the CA HSR.
The other purpose is as a transportation subsidy for assholes in Frisco who can't afford to purchase homes in the Bay Area. But they CAN afford to purchase homes in the San Joaquin Valley. They've been buying homes there and doing the car commute on their own dime for years, but now they're trying to push off a chunk of the cost on the rest of us. You watch, if the thing EVER starts service the timetable will be optimized for Frisco-Fresno daily commuters.
Probably the greatest waste of tax dollars is going to be (or someday) California's High Speed Rail...Maybe not local transit, but they tell of how many cars will be taken off the roads because of this boondoggle. Billions and Billions and I doubt it will ever run a train from San Francisco to Las Angles, ever. Lots of tax payers dollars just to keep it running, if it is ever finished.
Posted by: colin at February 27, 2016 11:47 AM (VqjZf)
The CA HSR system has two purposes, and two purposes only. First and foremost of course is graft, and getting the right people rich off of construction. Hell, the second season of True Detective revolved around the corruption inherent in the CA HSR.
The other purpose is as a transportation subsidy for assholes in Frisco who can't afford to purchase homes in the Bay Area. But they CAN afford to purchase homes in the San Joaquin Valley. They've been buying homes there and doing the car commute on their own dime for years, but now they're trying to push off a chunk of the cost on the rest of us. You watch, if the thing EVER starts service the timetable will be optimized for Frisco-Fresno daily commuters.
Posted by: IllTemperedCur at February 27, 2016 12:29 PM (o98Jz)
173
Posted by: JackStraw at February 27, 2016 12:28 PM (/tuJf)
Nope. Not even the Northeast corridor makes money.
They play accounting games like ignoring all of the costs, and just look at operating costs.
Nope. Not even the Northeast corridor makes money.
They play accounting games like ignoring all of the costs, and just look at operating costs.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at February 27, 2016 12:29 PM (Zu3d9)
174
Posted by: tbodie at February 27, 2016 12:25 PM (GHHRC)
You don't need to kill the bees, a beekeeper will get them for you. You need a queen. The worker bees will follow.
You don't need to kill the bees, a beekeeper will get them for you. You need a queen. The worker bees will follow.
Posted by: CaliGirl at February 27, 2016 12:29 PM (egOGm)
175
One 747 carries more people than the 15 car Super Chief could between Chicago and LA
Posted by: Bill Boeing at February 27, 2016 12:30 PM (12kBq)
176
>>Nope. Not even the Northeast corridor makes money.
>>They play accounting games like ignoring all of the costs, and just look at operating costs.
Got a link for that?
>>They play accounting games like ignoring all of the costs, and just look at operating costs.
Got a link for that?
Posted by: JackStraw at February 27, 2016 12:30 PM (/tuJf)
177
OT: I have a beehive in my rental trailer. Got it cleaned out this morning but still have a lot of bees.
What wiil kill bees?
-------------------
Mongoose.
Posted by: eleven at February 27, 2016 12:27 PM (qUNWi)
I don't know if that's true or not, but I do know honey badgers don't care.
What wiil kill bees?
-------------------
Mongoose.
Posted by: eleven at February 27, 2016 12:27 PM (qUNWi)
I don't know if that's true or not, but I do know honey badgers don't care.
Posted by: BurtTC at February 27, 2016 12:30 PM (TOk1P)
178
Dr. Ruth Westheimer
Following elections can lead to high blood pressure which leads to erecile problems so for sake of your sex life, don't follow elections
Dr. Ruth Westheimer
Following elections can lead to high blood pressure which leads to erecile problems so for sake of your sex life, don't follow elections
Posted by: Bruce With a Wang! at February 27, 2016 12:31 PM (iQIUe)
Posted by: The Place With The Helpful Hardware Man at February 27, 2016 12:31 PM (BK3ZS)
180
Giant wasps and fire ants.
Posted by: Kindltot at February 27, 2016 12:28 PM (q2o3
And when it's time to get rid of the wasps and ants? Fill the trailer with water, add a school if piranhas.
Posted by: Kindltot at February 27, 2016 12:28 PM (q2o3
And when it's time to get rid of the wasps and ants? Fill the trailer with water, add a school if piranhas.
Posted by: BurtTC at February 27, 2016 12:32 PM (TOk1P)
181
I don't know if that's true or not, but I do know honey badgers don't care. Posted by: BurtTC at February 27, 2016 12:30 PM (TOk1P)
I don't think that quote is completely accurate.
I don't think that quote is completely accurate.
Posted by: Kindltot at February 27, 2016 12:32 PM (q2o38)
182
Hillary Clinton crashes a bachelor party...
http://www.weaselzippers.us/258952-hillary-clinton-crashes-a-bachelor-party/
http://www.weaselzippers.us/258952-hillary-clinton-crashes-a-bachelor-party/
Posted by: SMFH at February 27, 2016 12:32 PM (rlfds)
183
Nope. Not even the Northeast corridor makes money.
>>They play accounting games like ignoring all of the costs, and just look at operating costs.
Got a link for that?
Posted by: JackStraw at February 27, 2016 12:30 PM (/tuJf)
The NorthEast Corridor always runs in the red and is kept afloat by Gov Subsidies. I've used it at times and it is not bad depending one where and why your going someplace but it loses money
>>They play accounting games like ignoring all of the costs, and just look at operating costs.
Got a link for that?
Posted by: JackStraw at February 27, 2016 12:30 PM (/tuJf)
The NorthEast Corridor always runs in the red and is kept afloat by Gov Subsidies. I've used it at times and it is not bad depending one where and why your going someplace but it loses money
Posted by: Nevergiveup at February 27, 2016 12:32 PM (DUoqb)
184
Following elections can lead to high blood pressure which leads to erecile problems so for sake of your sex life, don't follow elections
Posted by: Bruce With a Wang! at February 27, 2016 12:31 PM (iQIUe)
For elections lasting over four hours, see your doctor.
No, wait...that's not right, is it?
Posted by: Bruce With a Wang! at February 27, 2016 12:31 PM (iQIUe)
For elections lasting over four hours, see your doctor.
No, wait...that's not right, is it?
Posted by: antisocialist at February 27, 2016 12:33 PM (cDs+4)
185
Public transportation is horribly expensive and also
a boondoggle meant to enrich the Donald Trumps of the building and rail
worlds at the expense of taxpayers... the same is true "green" energy.
Posted by: redbanzai at February 27, 2016 12:19 PM (NPofj)
Damn that horrible rich man Trump. How awful he is for being wealthy! Is he the new "Bush" for 2016?
Posted by: Hairyback Guy at February 27, 2016 12:25 PM (ej1L0)
Thank heavens for Don Trump. Nobody talks about us no more.
a boondoggle meant to enrich the Donald Trumps of the building and rail
worlds at the expense of taxpayers... the same is true "green" energy.
Posted by: redbanzai at February 27, 2016 12:19 PM (NPofj)
Damn that horrible rich man Trump. How awful he is for being wealthy! Is he the new "Bush" for 2016?
Posted by: Hairyback Guy at February 27, 2016 12:25 PM (ej1L0)
Thank heavens for Don Trump. Nobody talks about us no more.
Posted by: Koch Bros. at February 27, 2016 12:33 PM (TOk1P)
Posted by: votermom at February 27, 2016 12:33 PM (cbfNE)
187
Mongoose will clear up your piranha problem also.
Posted by: eleven at February 27, 2016 12:33 PM (qUNWi)
188
Public Transportation has its place but cities place way too much emphasis on it because if people would just shut up and use that instead of driving, it makes their planning way easier. They dress it up in all this language, but most of the complaint is that traffic patterns and parking are 90% of a city's headaches and they just want that to go away.
I don't care if someone wants to create a private company that drives people around in busses or trains or whatever. Good for you, go for it. But you notice they don't? Because they only way it can be done is at a huge loss each year. So the government has to dump money into the project constantly.
Now, advocates of mass transit argue that roads cost a lot of money every year so there!
The problem with this argument is that roads make a lot of money each year. They generate revenue, jobs, and taxes, paying for themselves by delivering workers, goods, and supplies in a constant stream for almost no cost compared to the use.
Mass transit delivers workers, but not much more efficiently than cars, and that's it, no more commerce and no taxes.
I don't care if someone wants to create a private company that drives people around in busses or trains or whatever. Good for you, go for it. But you notice they don't? Because they only way it can be done is at a huge loss each year. So the government has to dump money into the project constantly.
Now, advocates of mass transit argue that roads cost a lot of money every year so there!
The problem with this argument is that roads make a lot of money each year. They generate revenue, jobs, and taxes, paying for themselves by delivering workers, goods, and supplies in a constant stream for almost no cost compared to the use.
Mass transit delivers workers, but not much more efficiently than cars, and that's it, no more commerce and no taxes.
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at February 27, 2016 12:33 PM (39g3+)
189
Nood Gardening thread.
Posted by: HH at February 27, 2016 12:34 PM (DrCtv)
190
162 Grey Fox is right. The railroaders' joke is "People just don't weigh enough."
But by golly we're trying.
Posted by: Stringer Davis at February 27, 2016 12:25 PM (xq1UY)
Half the folks in my gym are certainly doing their part. There's a distinctly bimodal distribution: people who are in great shape, and people doing their Jabba the Hutt impression.
How do people get that fat in SoCal? It's not as though we're shut in for a brutal winter. The weather is perfect all year around, there are lots of opportunities for outdoor activities. It takes decades to get that fat - did they notice that they had to turn sideways to get through doorways? /rant
But by golly we're trying.
Posted by: Stringer Davis at February 27, 2016 12:25 PM (xq1UY)
Half the folks in my gym are certainly doing their part. There's a distinctly bimodal distribution: people who are in great shape, and people doing their Jabba the Hutt impression.
How do people get that fat in SoCal? It's not as though we're shut in for a brutal winter. The weather is perfect all year around, there are lots of opportunities for outdoor activities. It takes decades to get that fat - did they notice that they had to turn sideways to get through doorways? /rant
Posted by: Jay Guevara at February 27, 2016 12:35 PM (oKE6c)
191
that sidebar pic of the unhinged Missou prof (way down the sidebar).
I find it equally humorous and disturbing.
I find it equally humorous and disturbing.
Posted by: ghost of hallelujah at February 27, 2016 12:36 PM (dBmVV)
192
187 Mongoose will clear up your piranha problem also.
Posted by: eleven at February 27, 2016 12:33 PM (qUNWi)
They'll also knock out your cobra problem tout suite.
Posted by: eleven at February 27, 2016 12:33 PM (qUNWi)
They'll also knock out your cobra problem tout suite.
Posted by: Jay Guevara at February 27, 2016 12:36 PM (oKE6c)
193
@159 I get your nic. Yes, class, Averell Harriman was the son of a rail baron.
"Traction trusts" will be found under "Streetcar history." The scandals of long-haul rail are in another section.
Did I mention, Sam Rayburn really hated railroads? There was quite a bone of contention inside the Dem party on that, for a century or so.
"Traction trusts" will be found under "Streetcar history." The scandals of long-haul rail are in another section.
Did I mention, Sam Rayburn really hated railroads? There was quite a bone of contention inside the Dem party on that, for a century or so.
Posted by: Stringer Davis at February 27, 2016 12:36 PM (xq1UY)
194
I don't know if that's true or not, but I do know
honey badgers don't care. Posted by: BurtTC at February 27, 2016 12:30
PM (TOk1P)
I don't think that quote is completely accurate.
Posted by: Kindltot at February 27, 2016 12:32 PM (q2o3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4r7wHMg5Yjg
Oh snap!
honey badgers don't care. Posted by: BurtTC at February 27, 2016 12:30
PM (TOk1P)
I don't think that quote is completely accurate.
Posted by: Kindltot at February 27, 2016 12:32 PM (q2o3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4r7wHMg5Yjg
Oh snap!
Posted by: Randall at February 27, 2016 12:37 PM (TOk1P)
195
Also, even in places where a private market in mass transit has grown up and is profitable, if the government take it over, they manage to make it less useful and a YUGE money-pit. Here is an econtalk where the talk about one such case in Chile: http://www.econtalk.org/archives/2010/08/munger_on_priva.html
Posted by: redbanzai at February 27, 2016 12:38 PM (NPofj)
196
mini buses literally
Posted by: votermom at February 27, 2016 12:33 PM (cbfNE)
The chocolate filled ones covered in nuts are especially yummy.
Posted by: votermom at February 27, 2016 12:33 PM (cbfNE)
The chocolate filled ones covered in nuts are especially yummy.
Posted by: Great Grandama at February 27, 2016 12:40 PM (aRUb8)
197
>>The NorthEast Corridor always runs in the red and is kept afloat by Gov Subsidies. I've used it at times and it is not bad depending one where and why your going someplace but it loses money
Again, any links?. I've always heard that the NEC profits were used to cover the costs of the under performing routes. In fact, in 2014 a bill was introduced in the House to allow AMTRAK to decouple and only use NEC profits to pay for the NEC costs.
I used to take the train all the time when I was living in Boston and it was almost always packed. And a hell of a lot more convenient than flying.
Again, any links?. I've always heard that the NEC profits were used to cover the costs of the under performing routes. In fact, in 2014 a bill was introduced in the House to allow AMTRAK to decouple and only use NEC profits to pay for the NEC costs.
I used to take the train all the time when I was living in Boston and it was almost always packed. And a hell of a lot more convenient than flying.
Posted by: JackStraw at February 27, 2016 12:40 PM (/tuJf)
198
>> The CA HSR system has two purposes, and two
>> purposes only.
You forgot one, though it's tangentially related to graft.
The Democrats destroyed the private-sector Central Valley ag economy with their water policies, and this is how they make those people and those votes dependent on the government money teat.
>> purposes only.
You forgot one, though it's tangentially related to graft.
The Democrats destroyed the private-sector Central Valley ag economy with their water policies, and this is how they make those people and those votes dependent on the government money teat.
Posted by: JEM at February 27, 2016 12:41 PM (o+SC1)
199
Mass transit delivers workers, but not much more efficiently than cars, and that's it, no more commerce and no taxes.
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at February 27, 2016 12:33 PM (39g3+)
True, but in the big cities, it also helps to stem the parking problems that come with commuting in cars. My uncle lives in Manhattan, has for 40 years, and has never kept a car in the city. He owns one, but he keeps it at the train station upstate for when he goes back to the Ancestral Estate. Says parking is scarce, expensive, and inconvenient in the city.
Now, do I think mass transit would be more efficient if it was run by private entities rather than city/county government? Heck yeah. But then, where would city/county governments hide their graft payments and such?
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at February 27, 2016 12:33 PM (39g3+)
True, but in the big cities, it also helps to stem the parking problems that come with commuting in cars. My uncle lives in Manhattan, has for 40 years, and has never kept a car in the city. He owns one, but he keeps it at the train station upstate for when he goes back to the Ancestral Estate. Says parking is scarce, expensive, and inconvenient in the city.
Now, do I think mass transit would be more efficient if it was run by private entities rather than city/county government? Heck yeah. But then, where would city/county governments hide their graft payments and such?
Posted by: antisocialist at February 27, 2016 12:42 PM (cDs+4)
200
Just about any insecticide kills bees.
It's alway nice to retrieve the hive if possible, but rarely possible without destroying where they are (tree, house, etc.).
Garden Sevin (carbaryl) permethrins, pyrethroids, all have a warning about when NOT to spray to avoid killing bees.
It's alway nice to retrieve the hive if possible, but rarely possible without destroying where they are (tree, house, etc.).
Garden Sevin (carbaryl) permethrins, pyrethroids, all have a warning about when NOT to spray to avoid killing bees.
Posted by: MarkY at February 27, 2016 12:43 PM (KeVib)
201
True, but in the big cities, it also helps to stem the parking problems that come with commuting in cars.
Well yeah, thus my point: its about making life easier for city planners and councils. All their talk about cleaner cities, better life, mother gaia and that crap is a blind. Its about it being a pain to engineer traffic flow and find parking.
Well yeah, thus my point: its about making life easier for city planners and councils. All their talk about cleaner cities, better life, mother gaia and that crap is a blind. Its about it being a pain to engineer traffic flow and find parking.
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at February 27, 2016 12:45 PM (39g3+)
202
Rail is more convenient than flying if its already available. Now if you built more airports... which won't happen because they're government controlled monopolies...
Posted by: Bill Boeing at February 27, 2016 12:45 PM (12kBq)
203
Again, any links?. I've always heard that the NEC profits were used to cover the costs of the under performing routes. In fact, in 2014 a bill was introduced in the House to allow AMTRAK to decouple and only use NEC profits to pay for the NEC costs.
I used to take the train all the time when I was living in Boston and it was almost always packed. And a hell of a lot more convenient than flying.
Posted by: JackStraw at February 27, 2016 12:40 PM (/tuJf)
I am sure there are. I just remember reading that even the Northeast Corridor is loser. And yeah it is packed at rush hour times, but most of the day it is not
I used to take the train all the time when I was living in Boston and it was almost always packed. And a hell of a lot more convenient than flying.
Posted by: JackStraw at February 27, 2016 12:40 PM (/tuJf)
I am sure there are. I just remember reading that even the Northeast Corridor is loser. And yeah it is packed at rush hour times, but most of the day it is not
Posted by: Nevergiveup at February 27, 2016 12:45 PM (DUoqb)
204
Had to step away so thanks to all for your suggestions. .
And Caligirl, I called 3 beekeepers in this area and none were interested.
I'm going with mongoose. They seem to be most widely recommended.
.
And Caligirl, I called 3 beekeepers in this area and none were interested.
I'm going with mongoose. They seem to be most widely recommended.
Posted by: tbodie at February 27, 2016 12:46 PM (GHHRC)
205
Rail is more convenient than flying if its already available. Now if you built more airports...
Only if you don't need to get there on time. I really prefer to ride rail, but its always, always late. And for some reason not much cheaper than flying. It used to be much cheaper, then you paid the difference in buying food but now you buy the food anyway, and rail costs as much as a plane ticket.
Only if you don't need to get there on time. I really prefer to ride rail, but its always, always late. And for some reason not much cheaper than flying. It used to be much cheaper, then you paid the difference in buying food but now you buy the food anyway, and rail costs as much as a plane ticket.
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at February 27, 2016 12:47 PM (39g3+)
Posted by: votermom at February 27, 2016 12:49 PM (cbfNE)
207
198 >> The CA HSR system has two purposes, and two
>> purposes only.
You forgot one, though it's tangentially related to graft.
The Democrats destroyed the private-sector Central Valley ag economy with their water policies, and this is how they make those people and those votes dependent on the government money teat.
Posted by: JEM at February 27, 2016 12:41 PM (o+SC1)
Well, I'm of the opinion that the commie cocksuckers cut off all the water in order to keep it in the Delta area where the Bay Area could get their hands on it for local urban use. The side effect is that it destroyed the Valley's ag economy giving a forced incentive to the normally conservative rural folks to start giving up and moving out of state. Leaving the land available for assholes from Frisco to purchase for their homes, at much reduced prices because of the shitty Valley economy.
Don't you love it when a plan comes together?
198 >> The CA HSR system has two purposes, and two
>> purposes only.
You forgot one, though it's tangentially related to graft.
The Democrats destroyed the private-sector Central Valley ag economy with their water policies, and this is how they make those people and those votes dependent on the government money teat.
Posted by: JEM at February 27, 2016 12:41 PM (o+SC1)
Well, I'm of the opinion that the commie cocksuckers cut off all the water in order to keep it in the Delta area where the Bay Area could get their hands on it for local urban use. The side effect is that it destroyed the Valley's ag economy giving a forced incentive to the normally conservative rural folks to start giving up and moving out of state. Leaving the land available for assholes from Frisco to purchase for their homes, at much reduced prices because of the shitty Valley economy.
Don't you love it when a plan comes together?
Posted by: IllTemperedCur at February 27, 2016 12:52 PM (o98Jz)
208
>>I am sure there are. I just remember reading that even the Northeast Corridor is loser. And yeah it is packed at rush hour times, but most of the day it is not
I think you read wrong. The NEC routinely has an operating profit of over $300 million but because of the way AMTRAK is set up they must use those profits to subsidize money losing routes rather than allowing AMTRAK to spend the money on the NEC infrastructure needs.
That was the reason for the bill in Congress, to allow AMTRAK to undo this policy and use NEC profits to support NEC infrastructure. That's why it looks like the NEC is losing money but it really isn't. The NEC could be self-sustaining and profitable if it is allowed to keep their profits for re-investment on their own infrastructure.
I think you read wrong. The NEC routinely has an operating profit of over $300 million but because of the way AMTRAK is set up they must use those profits to subsidize money losing routes rather than allowing AMTRAK to spend the money on the NEC infrastructure needs.
That was the reason for the bill in Congress, to allow AMTRAK to undo this policy and use NEC profits to support NEC infrastructure. That's why it looks like the NEC is losing money but it really isn't. The NEC could be self-sustaining and profitable if it is allowed to keep their profits for re-investment on their own infrastructure.
Posted by: JackStraw at February 27, 2016 12:52 PM (/tuJf)
209
MarkY, just saw your answer, thanks.Garden Sevin is the new plan.
And I think global warming got me in this mess.
And I think global warming got me in this mess.
Posted by: tbodie at February 27, 2016 12:54 PM (GHHRC)
210
...The NEC could be self-sustaining and profitable if it is allowed to keep their profits for re-investment on their own infrastructure...
If
If
Posted by: scorecard at February 27, 2016 12:54 PM (CRXed)
211
I used to drive into Boston all the time & didn't mind at all. Many years ago our office was 5 miles from my house & before The Big Dig ruined Tobin Bridge, I could make it to work in 9-10 minutes on a good day.
I'd much rather drive into Boston than take MBTA. In 2013 I needed gum graft because I used to brush teeth too hard & my dentist couldn't do it & I hadn't been on MBTA in years. A friend escorted me to station & though she wasn't familiar with Downtown Crossing area offered to walk me to it.
I drove to appointments for grafts & took taxi from office instead of MBTA for follow ups. Taxis often drove right past it.
I'd much rather drive into Boston than take MBTA. In 2013 I needed gum graft because I used to brush teeth too hard & my dentist couldn't do it & I hadn't been on MBTA in years. A friend escorted me to station & though she wasn't familiar with Downtown Crossing area offered to walk me to it.
I drove to appointments for grafts & took taxi from office instead of MBTA for follow ups. Taxis often drove right past it.
Posted by: Carol at February 27, 2016 12:57 PM (sj3Ax)
212
...Folks to start giving up and moving out of state...
I think of Lot leaving Sodom. Sodom had to be a beautiful place with nice weather.
I think of Lot leaving Sodom. Sodom had to be a beautiful place with nice weather.
Posted by: scorecard at February 27, 2016 12:57 PM (CRXed)
213
That Marine, or one of his brethren, needs to show up at the next Clinton event and ask the same question.
And every following one.
That Marine, or one of his brethren, needs to show up at the next Clinton event and ask the same question.
And every following one.
Posted by: irongrampa at February 27, 2016 12:59 PM (P/8aq)
214
But that's because that pesky thing called "The Market" is allowed to control its success or failure.
Posted by Open Blogger at 11:15 AM Comments
ooh! You said a dirty word! I'm telling Mom.
Posted by Open Blogger at 11:15 AM Comments
ooh! You said a dirty word! I'm telling Mom.
Posted by: goon at February 27, 2016 01:00 PM (gy5kE)
215
...And for some reason not much cheaper...
That is what subsidies do. They make everything more expensive and lower the quality. Just the tip of socialism or crony capitalism. (these work the same but a different group collects the vig)
That is what subsidies do. They make everything more expensive and lower the quality. Just the tip of socialism or crony capitalism. (these work the same but a different group collects the vig)
Posted by: scorecard at February 27, 2016 01:01 PM (CRXed)
216
Yeah but Amtrak has always existed on subsidies, they just suddenly got more expensive in the Bush years. I suspect its possible that the GOP congress reduced their huge money flow and they had to raise prices to make up for the lack of subsidies, but I don't know for sure.
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at February 27, 2016 01:05 PM (39g3+)
217
OT. I figured out a name for the Air Force's new stealthy angular nuclear B-21 bomber that strkes without warning - The Atomic Wedgie.
Posted by: Semi-Literate Thug at February 27, 2016 01:05 PM (/f6Nd)
218
207 I'm pretty convinced that they turned of the water to the small farmers so that they'll sell their now-worthless land on the cheap to the major agcorporations.
Then they'll turn the water back on.
Watch and learn, my young apprentices
207 I'm pretty convinced that they turned of the water to the small farmers so that they'll sell their now-worthless land on the cheap to the major agcorporations.
Then they'll turn the water back on.
Watch and learn, my young apprentices
Posted by: MAx at February 27, 2016 01:07 PM (LAliD)
219
I like to ride trains. The leg room is good, the windows are big, there is relatively fresh air, and the sound of the tracks is soothing and rhythmic. Now if they would just get rid of all of those humans that spoil the experience, it would be a wonderful way to travel.
Posted by: goon at February 27, 2016 01:07 PM (gy5kE)
220
CBD, thanks for bringing this to the Horde's attention. I really appreciate vindication that my desire for independence is not bad ecological stewardship.
Posted by: Emmie at February 27, 2016 01:10 PM (ezXrF)
221
206 What wiil kill bees?
Global warming!!!!
Posted by: votermom at February 27, 2016 12:49 PM (cbfNE)
I have a "magnetic" windshield that does a passable job. If I don't bust into a swarm of those sticky devils at least once a year I feel cheated.
Global warming!!!!
Posted by: votermom at February 27, 2016 12:49 PM (cbfNE)
I have a "magnetic" windshield that does a passable job. If I don't bust into a swarm of those sticky devils at least once a year I feel cheated.
Posted by: goon at February 27, 2016 01:12 PM (gy5kE)
222
Public transportation is horribly expensive and also a boondoggle meant to enrich the Donald Trumps of the building and rail worlds at the expense of taxpayers... the same is true "green" energy.
Posted by: redbanzai at February 27, 2016 12:19 PM (NPofj)
Nobody mentioned Trump in this thread until you brought him up? Does that "red" in your nic refer to your Soviet sympathies? Sure does seem that way.
Posted by: redbanzai at February 27, 2016 12:19 PM (NPofj)
Nobody mentioned Trump in this thread until you brought him up? Does that "red" in your nic refer to your Soviet sympathies? Sure does seem that way.
Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at February 27, 2016 01:18 PM (afR/C)
Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at February 27, 2016 01:20 PM (afR/C)
224
See, part of the appeal of mass transit to the totalitarian lefties is that it *could* be more economical if everyone were required to use it all the time.
Posted by: Emmie at February 27, 2016 01:33 PM (ezXrF)
225
Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at February 27, 2016 01:20 PM (afR/C)
If you are still around, I have a question that you might be able to help with....
If you are still around, I have a question that you might be able to help with....
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at February 27, 2016 01:33 PM (Zu3d9)
226
224. Lefties: we will mandate that employers structure their operating schedules so that there will be more riders during the "off" times and thus fuller trains.
Posted by: Emmie at February 27, 2016 01:35 PM (ezXrF)
227
http://freakonomics.com/2012/01/05/freakonomics-quorum-can-amtrak-ever-be-profitable/
Posted by: scorecard at February 27, 2016 01:48 PM (CRXed)
228
171 OT: I have a beehive in my rental trailer. Got it cleaned out this morning but still have a lot of bees.
What wiil kill bees?
Mongoose.
Posted by: eleven at February 27, 2016 12:27 PM (qUNWi)
Giant wasps and fire ants.
Posted by: Kindltot at February 27, 2016 12:28 PM (q2o3
'Course then you'll need large spiders to get rid of them.
What wiil kill bees?
Mongoose.
Posted by: eleven at February 27, 2016 12:27 PM (qUNWi)
Giant wasps and fire ants.
Posted by: Kindltot at February 27, 2016 12:28 PM (q2o3
'Course then you'll need large spiders to get rid of them.
Posted by: rickl at February 27, 2016 01:49 PM (sdi6R)
229
Logic has nothing to do with it. Money and control has everything to do with it.
Posted by: freaked at February 27, 2016 02:01 PM (wezJK)
230
Mass Transit is just another union/green crony grubermint monopolistic socialist trending boondoggle, along with public schools, public libraries, high speed trains, etc, etc.
If they made economic sense when it comes to providing a quality service for the cost, the marketplace (or social marketplace) could be (and should be) configured and promoted to handle these issues outside of the grubermint political meddling.
If they made economic sense when it comes to providing a quality service for the cost, the marketplace (or social marketplace) could be (and should be) configured and promoted to handle these issues outside of the grubermint political meddling.
Posted by: Seipherd at February 27, 2016 02:04 PM (bLo7S)
231
Cobb County, in suburban Atlanta said thanks for but no thanks to a subway expansion. That was uber racist of course since how dare the suburbs not provide cheap transportation for urban gang members? This decision was made something like 30 years ago and still when you mention Cobb Co to some people they scream RACISTS!!
Posted by: Monsieur Moo Moo at February 27, 2016 02:12 PM (G8lU8)
232
When I went to Europe for the first time I was amazed at how much public transportation there was. A million trains between cities and within cities, subways, street cars on practically every major avenue.
So why the fuck can't America have this as well? That's the question every 21 year old asks. The answer of course is because Cleveland and Dusseldorf are geographically worlds apart and what works for Dusseldorf doesn't make sense for Cleveland.
Problem is the 21 year old liberals idiots don't understand this. So as they get into elected office they still have the mentality of "well if it works in Europe, it will work here as well". That's because liberals are fucking imbeciles.
So why the fuck can't America have this as well? That's the question every 21 year old asks. The answer of course is because Cleveland and Dusseldorf are geographically worlds apart and what works for Dusseldorf doesn't make sense for Cleveland.
Problem is the 21 year old liberals idiots don't understand this. So as they get into elected office they still have the mentality of "well if it works in Europe, it will work here as well". That's because liberals are fucking imbeciles.
Posted by: Monsieur Moo Moo at February 27, 2016 02:18 PM (G8lU8)
233
But think of the bloated bureaucracy! That's a benefit!
Posted by: Man from Wazzustan at February 27, 2016 03:08 PM (FtrY1)
234
Test.
Am I banned again?
Am I banned again?
Posted by: Chi at February 27, 2016 03:33 PM (8RrKz)
235
Greetings:
I grew up in the Bronx of the '50s and '60s. Our small by New York City standards neighborhood was mostly five story apartment buildings. It was about four blocks to either of two different subways systems, the IND or the IRT. It was about two blocks to one of three different bus lines.
In the '70s, I took a course in Urban Economics in which the professor stated unequivocally that there were two important concepts in Mass Transit, one being the Mass and the other being the Transit. I continue to be disappointed how willing our rulers are to incur debt and waste money on Mass Transit ventures that provide low frequency arrivals in low population density areas.
Still.
I grew up in the Bronx of the '50s and '60s. Our small by New York City standards neighborhood was mostly five story apartment buildings. It was about four blocks to either of two different subways systems, the IND or the IRT. It was about two blocks to one of three different bus lines.
In the '70s, I took a course in Urban Economics in which the professor stated unequivocally that there were two important concepts in Mass Transit, one being the Mass and the other being the Transit. I continue to be disappointed how willing our rulers are to incur debt and waste money on Mass Transit ventures that provide low frequency arrivals in low population density areas.
Still.
Posted by: 11B40 at February 27, 2016 04:51 PM (evgyj)
236
Friggin' buses are rolling roadblocks that add an calculated factor to public-trans inefficiency. I've often wondered if issuing little POS cars to regular bus riders might be more cost effective than maintaining the BS transit monopoly we have in D.C.
Posted by: Yankee_Doodler at February 27, 2016 05:33 PM (XmkaW)
237
If it were not illegal to attach passenger cars to an engine carrying freight cars, we might have more rail travel, and fewer RRs would have gone out of business.
Posted by: Persnickety at February 27, 2016 05:59 PM (j/YTu)
238
UN-calculated!, I mean.
Posted by: Yankee_Doodler at February 28, 2016 01:01 AM (XmkaW)
239
they have trouble controlling you in your car.....
Posted by: the Artman at February 28, 2016 08:10 PM (Kcflc)
240
Mass transit may not be as cost efficient as predicted, but it does effectively solve one serious problem, "Without it, where would you park all those cars?"
Posted by: daveclay at February 29, 2016 10:26 AM (I+4FK)
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