Is This Something?

Risen, a mystery/thriller about a Roman centurion charged with tracking down Christ's body to dispel rumors of his resurrection, and thereby quell a Jewish uprising.

As pure propaganda -- and "propaganda" has a strictly neutral meaning for anyone who actually knows the word -- I don't think I've heard a better plotline for evangelizing.

The trick here is that the movie actually begins (I imagine) like a pretty secular affair -- we've got a political problem with this uprising of Jews and these silly claims, so we're sending in a detective to find the body.

I don't think, in this movie, the centurion is going to find the body.

So what begins as a secular detective mystery (with odd historical trappings) winds up as a conversion piece.

That's pretty brilliant, isn't it?

It's a religious movie (I assume) that isn't even definitely religious until, say, the last fifteen minutes or so.* Heck, even I could sit through that, and I really don't like religious movies.

Plus, given that (I imagine) pretty much all of this is made up (unless you guys know of a story of the Roman centurion charged with this task), the writers wouldn't have the problems that dog movies like Noah, with people shooting down things for, allegedly, not being properly scriptual. All they really need for scripture here is a bit of Roman history and a very little bit (I assume) taken from the Bible.

* Well I imagine there are lots of ambiguous, is-He-or-isn't-He hints dropped before then, with, I imagine, that sort of musical cue they now use in every movie to suggest the holy and mysterious. (Sort of an ancient middle eastern fanfare.) Like the hints of the Ark's power in Raiders of the Lost Ark.

Posted by: Ace at 08:08 PM




Comments

(Jump to bottom of page)

1 Foist?

Posted by: Tim in GA at January 28, 2016 08:08 PM (q9Mkv)

2 Is that Young Shakespeare in the lead? Or that lover of Elizabeth? Something like that.

Posted by: Grump928(C) notes yet again at January 28, 2016 08:10 PM (rwI+c)

3 Awesome. Really interesting premise. How did this get past the Hollywood gatekeepers?

Posted by: Shooter McGavin at January 28, 2016 08:10 PM (OD23t)

4 Elementary!

Posted by: Spartacus Holmes at January 28, 2016 08:11 PM (H9MG5)

5 I posted about this last night on the ONT. Ace, If you really want a laugh watch this guy's analysis of the first trailer where he claims this movie is actually an Illuminati Anti-Christ Conspiracy movie.

https://youtu.be/mEvsx3E8Q6E

Posted by: buzzion at January 28, 2016 08:11 PM (zt+N6)

6 Joseph Fienes? Who's going to play Michael Jackson, apparently.

Posted by: All Hail Eris, Literate Savage at January 28, 2016 08:12 PM (jR7Wy)

7 Like "The Robe", or "Ben Hur", then; movies filmed around the edge of the Gospel.

I hope it's good. I thought "Ben Hur" was good. Couldn't finish "The Robe".

Posted by: boulder terlit hobo at January 28, 2016 08:12 PM (6FqZa)

8 Noah looked like a sci-fi flick to me.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy at January 28, 2016 08:12 PM (LUgeY)

9 Is a remake of The Robe?

Posted by: Grump928(C) says Free Soothie!, with purchase of commenter of equal or greater value at January 28, 2016 08:12 PM (rwI+c)

10 I hadn't heard of this movie until I saw the trailer in the underlings debate. I thought the same as you, Ace. A very interesting idea for a change....

Posted by: RedDish at January 28, 2016 08:12 PM (5eXg1)

11 Oh, Ace, you are so naive.

Any movie or TV show involving Christ and produced by Hollywood will wind up sneering at the devout.

Posted by: chemjeff at January 28, 2016 08:12 PM (uZNvH)

12 Why, why, why is Ace effin with my continuity?

Posted by: Clarney at January 28, 2016 08:12 PM (euE/C)

13 I suspect that it will mock Christianity again

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at January 28, 2016 08:13 PM (voOPb)

14 I downloaded the 1925 version of Ben Hur. Haven't watched it yet.

Posted by: Grump928(C) notes yet again at January 28, 2016 08:13 PM (rwI+c)

15 Yea, we saw the trailer for that ahead of seeing The Revenant, and marked it a "must see."

There's another one coming out at Easter which looks just plain bad, compared to this one.

Posted by: the littl shyning man at January 28, 2016 08:13 PM (U6f54)

16 Kind of a cool premise.

But I'm an atheist, so ymmv.

Posted by: Harry Paratestes at January 28, 2016 08:14 PM (AkOaV)

17 There are a number of stories about the Centurions present when Christ was crucified. Many of them apocryphal.

If it doesn't do a hit job on Christianity in general then I say bravo. A rarity from the Infotainment Industry.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger 1.0 and All That at January 28, 2016 08:14 PM (Xo1Rt)

18 That sounds about 57 times more interesting than another friggen Star Wars movie I know that much.

I would see it.

Posted by: eleven at January 28, 2016 08:14 PM (qUNWi)

19 I mentioned this in the last thread:

https://tinyurl.com/jkxbq54

BackwardsBoy, did you see anything at 10:25 am last Sunday? That's right in your neck of the woods, if I'm not mistaken.

Posted by: rickl at January 28, 2016 08:15 PM (sdi6R)

20 > Like the hints of the Ark's power in Raiders of the Lost Ark.

Melting a guy's face off is a pretty damn powerful hint!

Posted by: Frank Underwood (D-SC) at January 28, 2016 08:15 PM (DfclT)

21 Always enjoy the old Roman movies so why not?

Posted by: Darryl at January 28, 2016 08:15 PM (hk3Fb)

22 Your description is more coherent than the trailer, which is a bit of a mess.

Posted by: in a world gone mad, one man ... at January 28, 2016 08:15 PM (at054)

23 >>>Noah looked like a sci-fi flick to me.

well yeah it did, but, I looked into it (and bear in mind, I know nothing of the Bible), and there is a lot of stuff about Nephilim and Giants in the Earth and so forth. It's not described much in the Bible, but the Bible describes a world more full of magic and strange things in the early-going than it does in the New Testament.

Posted by: ace at January 28, 2016 08:16 PM (dciA+)

24 I saw the trailer tonight. How was this never on the radar?

Posted by: Clarney at January 28, 2016 08:16 PM (euE/C)

25 As long as it is not a musical...

Posted by: eman at January 28, 2016 08:16 PM (mR7Es)

26 well not a LOT of stuff about those things, but they are mentioned.

Posted by: ace at January 28, 2016 08:16 PM (dciA+)

27 Christian movies are always bad.

Posted by: Lauren at January 28, 2016 08:16 PM (Kqit+)

28 This and the Wacko Jacko role, Ralph's little brother. Very interesting.

Posted by: Baldy at January 28, 2016 08:16 PM (1SCTq)

29 Mel Brooks isn't in it, is he?

Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at January 28, 2016 08:17 PM (FkBIv)

30 I wonder when they'll option Salman Rushdie, The Satanic Verses

Posted by: boulder terlit hobo, watchin' the pigs fly by at January 28, 2016 08:17 PM (6FqZa)

31 >>There are a number of stories about the Centurions present when Christ was crucified. Many of them apocryphal.

That's the original "crime" but he story is about tracking down the body and the Jewish conspirators who, I imagine Pilate's theory goes, stole the body to give the illusion of a resurrection.

It's really quite a doozy of an idea.

Posted by: ace at January 28, 2016 08:17 PM (dciA+)

32 @11 Chemjeff, I have hopes. The production company is 'Affirm Films' which is claimed to produce films aimed at evangelical Christians. I am prepared to be disillusioned tho.

Posted by: RedDish at January 28, 2016 08:18 PM (5eXg1)

33 And propaganda does have a neutral meaning but it's not the one usually used.

I have never, until today, found anyone offering the word propaganda without it being weighted with negative connotations.

Strictly speaking, it CAN be neutral but never really is used. some other word is used in that situation.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger 1.0 and All That at January 28, 2016 08:18 PM (Xo1Rt)

34 Noah, on the other hand, was just some global warming bullshit or something.

Posted by: Lauren at January 28, 2016 08:19 PM (Kqit+)

35 looks good

Posted by: Bigby's Knuckle Sandwich at January 28, 2016 08:19 PM (Cq0oW)

36 I hope some antichristian liberal accidentally sees this instead of Hail, Caesar!

Posted by: matthew at January 28, 2016 08:19 PM (9cvIz)

37 I read the post at the link. I'd like to see this movie. Sounds interesting.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy at January 28, 2016 08:19 PM (LUgeY)

38 Posted by: Bitter Clinger 1.0 and All That at January 28, 2016 08:18 PM (Xo1Rt)

And here I always thought propaganda was just another word for truth!

Posted by: Hrothgar at January 28, 2016 08:19 PM (wYnyS)

39 >>> Noah, on the other hand, was just some global warming bullshit or something.

i didn't love Noah but I don't think that's fair.

Posted by: ace at January 28, 2016 08:19 PM (dciA+)

40 Oh, this is going to make All of the Money.

Posted by: Bandersnatch, Opus/Bill the Cat 2016 at January 28, 2016 08:20 PM (1xUj/)

41 Excellent premise, they'll turn it into c-rap.


Posted by: Ralph at January 28, 2016 08:20 PM (ZLAox)

42 So how are we doing the debate/trumpfest? Split screen?

Posted by: Lauren at January 28, 2016 08:20 PM (Kqit+)

43 It recalls the Saul/Paul conversion in the New Testement. Just enough, but not too much to be obvious, in my opinion. Saul was Roman. Happened on the Road to Damascus, persecuting "Christ" and so forth...

Posted by: RPF at January 28, 2016 08:20 PM (dR1P/)

44 One of the best known in the US would be The Robe.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger 1.0 and All That at January 28, 2016 08:20 PM (Xo1Rt)

45 Seriously if you want a laugh check out my link to the guy claiming that its actually about the Anti-Christ.

Posted by: buzzion at January 28, 2016 08:20 PM (zt+N6)

46 I saw one Christian movie that was almost good: "God's Not Dead". The scenes with the muslima were out of place. Otherwise Kevin Sorbo put on a career performance, and the script was generally well-done.

Posted by: boulder terlit hobo at January 28, 2016 08:20 PM (6FqZa)

47 Yeah,saw the trailer on TV the other night and it looked very interesting.I found myself thinking of what kind of sucker punch they might put in it .

Posted by: steevy at January 28, 2016 08:20 PM (8HTq1)

48 i didn't love Noah

I knew I should've let those f'ing Ewoks drown.

Posted by: zombie Noah at January 28, 2016 08:21 PM (at054)

49 Saw the trailer for this on The War Room DVD.

Also included in that DVD was a commercial if you will for Sony Pictures Chrsitian movie division, which says something. There is a definite market for it and it's growing. If you watch Christian themed movies you have seen the improvement in production values over the past few years. There have been some great stories that just were poorly made due to lack of major backing.

Sony is now in the game. I expect big things.

Posted by: blaster at January 28, 2016 08:21 PM (2Ocf1)

50 Hmmmm.... interesting. I am a sucker for detective/mystery stories set in the past and/or odd locales.

Posted by: otho at January 28, 2016 08:21 PM (EWg9n)

51 Noah was another movie I couldn't finish, from too much eye-rolling. But then that wasn't a Christian movie; it was a Jewish Pseudepigrapha movie.

Posted by: boulder terlit hobo at January 28, 2016 08:22 PM (6FqZa)

52 "Noah" was a gnostic take on the story from Genesis with heavy borrowing from the apocryphal Book of Enoch.

"Risen" is getting some positive attention from Catholic Radio, some of whom have seen it already, so I'm cautiously optimistic.

Posted by: leoncaruthers at January 28, 2016 08:22 PM (G5lyi)

53 Ridley Scott's Noah wanted all humanity destroyed so they wouldn't destroy the planet.

Posted by: steevy at January 28, 2016 08:22 PM (8HTq1)

54 >>> Hmmmm.... interesting. I am a sucker for detective/mystery stories set in the past and/or odd locales.

me too.

Posted by: ace at January 28, 2016 08:22 PM (dciA+)

55 Rush trying say that Trump might show up at the debates anyway.

I thought he might show at the undercard cause Kelly won't be there for that one. But I seriously doubt he'll show. He's got too much face to lose by showing up at either.

Better to do his event. Especially now with Huckybucky and Sanctorum.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger 1.0 and All That at January 28, 2016 08:22 PM (Xo1Rt)

56 Chemjeff, if this is the movie rush mentioned that his friend was making some time ago, it's not going to be a hit job Christianity

Posted by: chique testing testing at January 28, 2016 08:22 PM (QX0Xt)

57 >>> I imagine Pilate's theory goes...

It wasn't Pilate's theory - it was an actual theory that the Pharisees and Sadducees extolled at the time. Unless you're just simply talking about this film's premise specifically.

Posted by: Duh! at January 28, 2016 08:22 PM (tidgt)

58 I knew I should've let those f'ing Ewoks drown.
Posted by: zombie Noah


And the unicorns!

Posted by: Irish Rovers at January 28, 2016 08:22 PM (FkBIv)

59 option Salman Rushdie, The Satanic Verses
Posted by: boulder terlit hobo, watchin' the pigs fly by at January 28, 2016 08:17 PM (6FqZa)

I think your nic nails it BTH

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at January 28, 2016 08:23 PM (voOPb)

60 Some similarity to what was reported in Matthew; that the tomb guards were paid off to say the body was stolen.

It looks like the story has him being a tomb guard, which conflicts with the idea of him being paid off. Also Matthew suggests that Pilate believed the report so would not have sent out searchers.

But...looks far more decent than most "biblical" flicks

Posted by: TexasDan at January 28, 2016 08:23 PM (TqXWc)

61 I'd imagine a fair amount of scripture is involved, esp where jesus is doing odd visits after

Posted by: Bigby's Knuckle Sandwich at January 28, 2016 08:23 PM (Cq0oW)

62 OH and based on what I see from Affirm Films, Christians need not worry they will be sucker punched.

Posted by: blaster at January 28, 2016 08:24 PM (2Ocf1)

63 >>>> Christian movies are always bad.
Posted by: Lauren at January 28, 2016 08:16 PM (Kqit+)
------
The only good religious movie I have seen that was artistic and moving and not totally sentimental and cheesy is The Passion of the Christ. Yeah, Mel Gibson.

I thought it was beautiful and genius cinematically and a foreign flick. It was subtitled in Aramaic and Latin and yet still worked.

Posted by: L, Elle at January 28, 2016 08:24 PM (2x3L+)

64 I think he's doing cattle calls for his VP.

Cruz apparently has lost the race.

Palin's in the running and now Huckabee seems eager to please.

Face it folks. Love him or hate him, the election's now all about him.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger 1.0 and All That at January 28, 2016 08:24 PM (Xo1Rt)

65 >>>
It wasn't Pilate's theory - it was an actual theory that the Pharisees and Sadducees extolled at the time. Unless you're just simply talking about this film's premise specifically.

i'm talking about Pilate's theory in this specific movie. Pilate is the one who sends the centurion (detective) out to find the body and disprove the claims.

Posted by: ace at January 28, 2016 08:24 PM (dciA+)

66 Lauren, I feel you. I'm very active in the church, and outside of classical music I mostly listen to gospel. But I tend to shy away from Christian movies. 1 exception is the movie I watched on Netflix called October Baby. Its was a Christian Pro Life movie and was really well done.

Posted by: chique testing testing at January 28, 2016 08:24 PM (QX0Xt)

67 ace.....you are a good egg.....keep searching....you'll arrive home eventually

Posted by: phoenixgirl, i was born a rebel at January 28, 2016 08:24 PM (0O7c5)

68 To be fair, I didn't see Noah. Because the only thing worse than Christian movies are movies made by liberals about Christians.

However, if they're reaching out to atheists in a positive manner I should be quiet and stop bitching because it's more than I do.

Posted by: Lauren at January 28, 2016 08:24 PM (3DIzJ)

69 Yo bitches! Just got home from the bar! Ready for some Trump alt-debate-awesomeness!! Can I get a hell ya!

Posted by: Yip & 2 Corinthians at January 28, 2016 08:25 PM (e7T6D)

70 Too Soon?

Posted by: Yip & 2 Corinthians at January 28, 2016 08:25 PM (e7T6D)

71 I didn't see Tom Hanks in this trailer so maybe it's worth a look-see.

Posted by: Fritz at January 28, 2016 08:26 PM (BngQR)

72 "Christian movies are always bad."
=========

Is that so?

Posted by: The Passion of The Christ at January 28, 2016 08:26 PM (7Kbxu)

73 >>>I'd imagine a fair amount of scripture is involved, esp where jesus is doing odd visits after

but those won't be in the movie until the end. There's no story if the centurion sees him alive fifteen minutes in.

He'll HEAR these claims about the visits second-hand when he interviews witnesses, but he won't see Christ. Not until the end.

Can't solve the mystery until act 3, you know.

Posted by: ace at January 28, 2016 08:26 PM (dciA+)

74 I have never, until today, found anyone offering the word propaganda without it being weighted with negative connotations.

You must not read my comments :^)

I've been off and on referring to Capra's "Why We Fight" as propaganda for, what, eight years? Because it is. It's propaganda.

It happens that propaganda against Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan worked well, because all one had to do to get people to want to fight them was to show the stuff that those regimes actually did.

Posted by: boulder terlit hobo at January 28, 2016 08:26 PM (6FqZa)

75 Does the Roman detective:

Wear a fedora?
Have a drinking problem?
Have a sexy secretary he calls Doll?

Posted by: Bruce With a Wang! at January 28, 2016 08:26 PM (iQIUe)

76 i'm talking about Pilate's theory in this specific movie. Pilate is the one who sends the centurion (detective) out to find the body and disprove the claims.
Posted by: ace at January 28, 2016 08:24 PM (dciA+)

not to nitpick, but a centurion was an officer in the roman army.

Posted by: Harry Paratestes at January 28, 2016 08:26 PM (AkOaV)

77 Saul was a Pharisee, as Jewish as a Jew got. He was NOT a Roman.

Posted by: Conservative Crank's iPhone at January 28, 2016 08:27 PM (Gosad)

78 It looks decent. The production values look good.

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at January 28, 2016 08:27 PM (4ErVI)

79 Most Christians of the more genial sort will say that just about any story that gets people thinking about or reminded of Christ and his teachings is a good thing.

And for the most part, I would agree.

Too many people have no clue where much of our ethics/morality and common law derive from.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger 1.0 and All That at January 28, 2016 08:27 PM (Xo1Rt)

80 69
Yo bitches! Just got home from the bar! Ready for some Trump alt-debate-awesomeness!! Can I get a hell ya!


Posted by: Yip 2 Corinthians at January 28, 2016 08:25 PM (e7T6D)

you are more like 1st corinthians.......a gong booming and symbol crashing

Posted by: phoenixgirl, i was born a rebel at January 28, 2016 08:27 PM (0O7c5)

81 >>>Some similarity to what was reported in Matthew; that the tomb guards were paid off to say the body was stolen.



It looks like the story has him being a tomb guard, which conflicts
with the idea of him being paid off. Also Matthew suggests that Pilate
believed the report so would not have sent out searchers.



But...looks far more decent than most "biblical" flicks<<<

Exactly. The tomb guards were the best of the best of the centurions and everyone was to believe the apostles conspired to take the body by ambushing them.

Posted by: Duh! at January 28, 2016 08:28 PM (tidgt)

82 BTW the movie is delayed until February.

Here is the Second Trailer.

https://youtu.be/xxgm2TJr2m0

Posted by: buzzion at January 28, 2016 08:28 PM (zt+N6)

83 Tom Felton is in this playing a character named Lucius.

I hope he took the part just because of how hilarious that is.

Posted by: alexthechick - Team Two Spaces at January 28, 2016 08:28 PM (IrByp)

84 Rikl, I didn't see or hear anything last Sunday night. Was watching football.

Winter is a weird time down here for noise. If it's cold during the day, I can hear them using live munitions at the Avon bombing range which is about 60 miles from Casa Backwardio. Occasionally, the sliding glass door will rattle. Only time I can hear it.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy at January 28, 2016 08:29 PM (LUgeY)

85 I could see a Maltese Falcon version of Jesus.

Posted by: Bruce With a Wang! at January 28, 2016 08:29 PM (iQIUe)

86 The old story of the Wandering Jew would be a good movie also... Legend he it he spit on Jesus so his punishment was that he couldn't die and he spent the rest of eternity walking the earth. Some argue Kane from Kung Fu is based on the story...

Posted by: Rory at January 28, 2016 08:29 PM (J567a)

87 There's a film on Netflix about Peter on the night before his crucifixion called "Apostle Peter and the Last Supper" that I think is just lovely.

It stars Robert Loggia. That's "R," as in "Robert Loggia." "O," as in "Oh my God! It's Robert Loggia."...

Posted by: Kensington at January 28, 2016 08:29 PM (7Kbxu)

88 77 Saul was a Pharisee BUT also a Roman citizen.

Posted by: leoncaruthers at January 28, 2016 08:29 PM (G5lyi)

89 @80 PHXgirl.... that's a fair cop

Posted by: Yip & 2 Corinthians at January 28, 2016 08:29 PM (e7T6D)

90 Here we are in the 21st century. Technology being what it is, there is an opportunity for people to be shown a clear image of their faith, and as powerfully dangerous as that is, for the faithful, it would be worthwhile.

Sad to say there have been few examples so far of this being attempted "straightforwardly." Is this one? We'll see.

Posted by: BurtTC at January 28, 2016 08:29 PM (Dj0WE)

91 ace in answer to your question yes it is something.

Those who say all Christian films are bad but are Christian I say stand up for your team. Yes, they have been poorly made because they haven't had the backing. Go see them and they will get the backing. Just watch the Kendricks brothers movies and you can see how they get better.

Posted by: blaster at January 28, 2016 08:29 PM (2Ocf1)

92 It would be interesting to posit scepticism on the part of Pilate. He was a first class despot but the gospels do show some internal conflict on his part over the death sentence. Plus his wife's dream and warning. Not enough to stop Pilate of course, but it could add some credibility to the plot line.

Posted by: TexasDan at January 28, 2016 08:29 PM (TqXWc)

93 Jeb Bush has been endorsed by 2 Corinthians and Thessalonians.

Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at January 28, 2016 08:30 PM (FkBIv)

94 "The Passion of The Christ"

Well, that's an exception because it was produced by people who actually knew what they were doing.

So many times Christians are like "hey, I feel moved to make this movie" and then half ass it on 200K budget. Which is fine, but they just always seem...half assed.

The exception are the movies done by Eduardo Verastegui. Those are actually good movies. Also, have you seen Eduardo Verastegui?

Posted by: Lauren at January 28, 2016 08:30 PM (3DIzJ)

95 >> 88

This.

Posted by: Duh! at January 28, 2016 08:30 PM (tidgt)

96 AtC there is a new Japanese Godzilla movie do out in July.

Posted by: steevy at January 28, 2016 08:30 PM (8HTq1)

97 >>> To be fair, I didn't see Noah. Because the only thing worse than Christian movies are movies made by liberals about Christians.

it had a lot of stuff that isn't in the Bible, some that maybe is in the Bible but is barely mentioned and then developed in the script based on nothing but imagination, etc.

This bad guy stowing away on the ark was dumb and unnecessary-- just some dumb excuse for a fight later in the movie.

But some of the movie was an earnest attempt to tell the story, which is difficult to tell. For example, one of Noah's sons, forget which, maybe Ham, is sent into exile after gazing upon Noah, naked.

That's all the Bible says. It's confusing--- what does that mean? Does that mean Ham gazed lustfully upon his father, or just saw him naked inadevertantly and for some reason this was a reason to exile him, or what...?

I mean, that's not explained in the Bible and all there are are theories to explain it. So, writing the story, the guy had to pick one theory and go with it.

And of course that's going to bother people who don't subscribe to the theory.

Posted by: ace at January 28, 2016 08:30 PM (dciA+)

98 Of course, the story of Jewish conspirators stealing the body to create the impression of a resurrection did circulate among the Jews in the 1st century and is mentioned in the Bible. Per Matthew 28:15

Posted by: Shooter McGavin at January 28, 2016 08:30 PM (OD23t)

99 7
"The Robe" was ok. Jean Simmons at her most beautiful. Richard Burton overplayed a bit but the guy who played Caligula stole the move. It had an absolutely beautiful score by Miklos Rozsa who would later score "Ben Hur".

Posted by: Tuna at January 28, 2016 08:30 PM (JSovD)

100 Let me guess: The centurion finds out Jesus is a replicant.

Posted by: Pappy O'Daniel at January 28, 2016 08:30 PM (oVJmc)

101 >>>> There's a film on Netflix about Peter on the night before his crucifixion called "Apostle Peter and the Last Supper" that I think is just lovely.
It stars Robert Loggia. That's "R," as in "Robert Loggia." "O," as in "Oh my God! It's Robert Loggia."...
Posted by: Kensington at January 28, 2016 08:29 PM
-----
Thanks for that reco. I will try to check that one out.

Posted by: L, Elle at January 28, 2016 08:30 PM (2x3L+)

102 It recalls the Saul/Paul conversion in the New Testement. Just enough,
but not too much to be obvious, in my opinion. Saul was Roman.

Saul was referred to as a Pharisee several times - what we might see today as a rabbinic Jew.

He may have been a Roman citizen, but it is unlikely that he was an "ethnic" Roman Italian who converted to Judaism (or a form of it).

Posted by: JP at January 28, 2016 08:31 PM (T8qTW)

103 So this Risen movie has the Micheal Jackson actor in it? Hmmm

Posted by: Yip & 2 Corinthians at January 28, 2016 08:31 PM (e7T6D)

104 >>> Noah, on the other hand, was just some global warming bullshit or something.

i didn't love Noah but I don't think that's fair.
Posted by: ace at January 28, 2016 08:19 PM (dciA+)


I thought the analysis of it as a Gnostic story was pretty interesting.

http://drbrianmattson.com/journal/2014/3/31/sympathy-for-the-devil

Posted by: ReactionaryMonster at January 28, 2016 08:31 PM (uURQL)

105 Mark presented his Gospel as a trailer, for the Messianic Age...

Posted by: boulder terlit hobo at January 28, 2016 08:31 PM (6FqZa)

106 not to get bogged down in VP argument

it's too early.

but trump would choose someone complementary to his approach. not a compromise with the establishment or assassination insurance. look for competence, showmanship, clear ballsy intelligence, etc

Posted by: Bigby's Knuckle Sandwich at January 28, 2016 08:31 PM (Cq0oW)

107 The Passion of the Christ. Yeah, Mel Gibson.

I thought it was beautiful and genius cinematically and a foreign flick. It was subtitled in Aramaic and Latin and yet still worked.



Side note: I'm not religious, but I decided I needed to read all of the New Testament and the non-canonical gospels and a bunch of other stuff before I could know how to take The Passion of the Christ. It turned out to be John. 'Nuff said.

The interesting thing is that there is still a sect of Christianity which speaks Aramaic. They have an Aramaic bible, which is called the Peshawa or similar.

They were sort of happy that Mel hired translators to do the dialogue in Aramaic, but they were really pissed that he had them translate the bible into it. They were like "It's already written in Aramaic!"

Posted by: Bandersnatch, Opus/Bill the Cat 2016 at January 28, 2016 08:32 PM (1xUj/)

108 AtC there is a new Japanese Godzilla movie do out in July.
Posted by: steevy at January 28, 2016 08:30 PM (8HTq1)



I knooooooooowwwww.

I'm excited about London Has Fallen just for the fanfic of having a VP announce oh so you kidnapped the President and are going to torture him on a livestream? 'K we're going to murder the fuck out of you.

Posted by: alexthechick - Team Two Spaces at January 28, 2016 08:32 PM (IrByp)

109 And, I'm going to go ahead and say that "yes, this is something."

Admittedly I'm Catholic, but I'm a very bad Catholic, and yet that trailer took my breath away and almost made me start crying.

Posted by: Kensington at January 28, 2016 08:32 PM (7Kbxu)

110 Saul of tarsus was born a jew........he was a pharisee philippians 3:5

Posted by: phoenixgirl, i was born a rebel at January 28, 2016 08:33 PM (0O7c5)

111 My bad, he was a citizen of Rome. I inferred the original comment as stating he was an agent of Rome.

Posted by: Conservative Crank's iPhone at January 28, 2016 08:33 PM (Gosad)

112 84 Rikl, I didn't see or hear anything last Sunday night. Was watching football.

Winter is a weird time down here for noise. If it's cold during the day, I can hear them using live munitions at the Avon bombing range which is about 60 miles from Casa Backwardio. Occasionally, the sliding glass door will rattle. Only time I can hear it.
Posted by: BackwardsBoy at January 28, 2016 08:29 PM (LUgeY)


No, it was in the morning! It was a bright fireball visible in broad daylight.

There was one visible in my area (southeastern PA) a few years ago, but I missed it. Near as I could tell, I had just parked my car and went into the supermarket when it happened. My boss' son saw it, and thought it looked like a bottle rocket.

Posted by: rickl at January 28, 2016 08:33 PM (sdi6R)

113 circumcised on the 8th day

Posted by: phoenixgirl, i was born a rebel at January 28, 2016 08:33 PM (0O7c5)

114 I watched that Bible series last spring that dealt with after the Crucifixion. The followers were hiding in the desert. One couple who joined them hid a little bit of money away just in case things didnt work out. Later, he was asked about it and lied and his eyes bled out and he died. Then his wife wants to know what happened to him and her eyes bleed out and she dies. I had never heard of that story before but I verified it online. Seems like the couple were being punished for being prudent. They gave most of their money to the apostles.

Posted by: Bruce With a Wang! at January 28, 2016 08:34 PM (iQIUe)

115 Diamond and Silk! Whoo hoo! heh... Trump turned this up to eleven.... just sayin

Posted by: Yip & 2 Corinthians at January 28, 2016 08:34 PM (e7T6D)

116 For Harry,
In praise of older women,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWpBQO6eqKs

Posted by: random lurker at January 28, 2016 08:34 PM (+tRIN)

117 I really wish that the Mel Gibson Maccabees movie didn't get shelved. I really would have liked to see it.

Posted by: L, Elle at January 28, 2016 08:34 PM (2x3L+)

118 Posted by: Conservative Crank's iPhone at January 28, 2016 08:27 PM (Gosad)

Exactly. Although at the time, he would've admitted to being a Roman citizen.

I personally have always suspected Paul's convenient conversion and wondered if he started the despoilation of the original Christian mysteries.

There are stories about how Christ's teachings and his ministry that can be seen to have more mystical qualities about the rituals than what became the norm.

Especially after Paul's ascension to the pinnacle of leadership.

And he was willing to let Caesar judge him which most say turned out badly but some aren't sure that the Romans killed Paul.

Either way I'm suspicious of such a zealous anti-christian suddenly becoming a convert.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger 1.0 and All That at January 28, 2016 08:35 PM (Xo1Rt)

119 It comes out of Matthew 27:62 - 28:15. The Pharisees tell Pilate about the prediction of the Resurrection and want a guard put on the Tomb. Pilate says, "Here's your guard, do your best." There's an earthquake, the Angel of the Lord rolls the stone away, the guards freak and report back to the priests, who pay them off to say that the disciples stole the Body while the guards were sleeping. As you do. When guarding something.

Could be a pretty good film.

Posted by: VKI at January 28, 2016 08:35 PM (qySNZ)

120 Saul/Paul was a Jew who was also a Roman citizen. Tribe of Benjamin. See Romans 11:1.

Posted by: chique testing testing at January 28, 2016 08:35 PM (QX0Xt)

121 Wasn't the a tv show, or series of movies, about some monk that was a medieval detective?

Posted by: Grump928(C) notes yet again at January 28, 2016 08:35 PM (rwI+c)

122 The star looks a lot like Michael Jackson if you ask me. Or could with some make up providing he stays out of the sun. If they ever make a movie about Jacko, they should definitely get him. Yessir, he'd be the guy.

Posted by: Dorks Strewn at January 28, 2016 08:35 PM (QdAXQ)

123 Ok, cynicism aside, this trailer does look a lot better than most Christian movies and looks worth watching.

See, it IS something!

Posted by: Lauren at January 28, 2016 08:35 PM (3DIzJ)

124 I really wish that the Mel Gibson Maccabees movie didn't get shelved. I really would have liked to see it.

*urrrp*

Posted by: the demon in the liquor bottle at January 28, 2016 08:35 PM (6FqZa)

125 I really wish that the Mel Gibson Maccabees movie didn't get shelved. I really would have liked to see it.
Posted by: L, Elle at January 28, 2016 08:34 PM (2x3L+)



When he made Apocalypto there were reviews decrying how violent it was.

Yeah. Because, as we all know, the Mayans were so peace loving and kumbaya and whatnot.

Posted by: alexthechick - Team Two Spaces at January 28, 2016 08:35 PM (IrByp)

126 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_xNfp97Ic4

Trump alt-side-show... linky.... live.

you know.. cause you wanna

Posted by: Yip & 2 Corinthians at January 28, 2016 08:35 PM (e7T6D)

127 We liked Christ. Never bombarded us with letters.

Posted by: The Corinthians at January 28, 2016 08:35 PM (4ErVI)

128 As an agnostic who believes that an actual historical Jesus existed, I'm wondering how many atheists feel the same way?



Posted by: Max Power at January 28, 2016 08:36 PM (q177U)

129 Mercy, Paul was a Jew, Pharisee and a Roman Citizen. The leaders at the time of Christ death, started the rumor that the guards removed the body for money. The leaders were desperate to stay in control. Sound familiar? I hope it's a good movie, there are so few.

Posted by: tops at January 28, 2016 08:36 PM (AX1D8)

130 Wasn't the a tv show, or series of movies, about some monk that was a medieval detective?

Cadfael.

Posted by: Pappy O'Daniel at January 28, 2016 08:36 PM (oVJmc)

131 The stuff about Noah being a "killer" and a "psychopath" is unfair.

In the movie, God tells Noah he is bringing the flood because man is wicked. Noah takes this to mean the human line itself must end; he thinks that while his family will be spared, they will be spared just to save the animals, and while they are allowed to live, they should not have children of their own, for God has decreed that man should perish.

This is Noah's understanding, which, it is revealed, is a misunderstanding. Or it's Noah reading in his own pessimism about humanity into God's words.

I mean, I get the disquiet over Noah wanting to kill a baby if it's a girl (because a girl would mean more humans down the road), but the idea is that Noah is trying to carrry out what he believes God's commands are.

Spoiler alert: at some point he realizes God doesn't want him to do that, and is offering humanity a second chance.

Posted by: ace at January 28, 2016 08:36 PM (dciA+)

132 "Either way I'm suspicious of such a zealous anti-christian suddenly becoming a convert."

But that's sort of the whole point...

Posted by: Lauren at January 28, 2016 08:36 PM (3DIzJ)

133 97

Ham mocked his father Noah and tried to rope his brothers into joining in. They chose to cover Noah up instead.

The particular cultural significance of mocking his fathers nakedness has to be inferred from the severity of Ham's consequence, but it was evidently a lot worse than misdemeanor.

Posted by: TexasDan at January 28, 2016 08:36 PM (TqXWc)

134 I'm suspicious of such a zealous anti-christian suddenly becoming a convert.

That the miracle and the point of it.

Posted by: Grump928(C) notes yet again at January 28, 2016 08:36 PM (rwI+c)

135 Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at January 28, 2016 08:30 PM (FkBIv)

I think that's "only 2 Corinthians but an overwhelming majority of Thessalonians"!

Posted by: Hrothgar at January 28, 2016 08:37 PM (wYnyS)

136 Either way I'm suspicious of such a zealous anti-christian suddenly becoming a convert.
Posted by: Bitter Clinger 1.0 and All That at January 28, 2016 08:35 PM (Xo1Rt)

Um, so were other Christians at the time, initially. For the explanation, see Acts 9.

Posted by: chique testing testing at January 28, 2016 08:37 PM (QX0Xt)

137 Looks like a good movie. One of the hardest aspect of being a Christian to understand is Faith. No facts needed, you are asked to have Faith because that is all the Lord asks of you.

Thomas is a fine example.

Why doubt? No need to if you have Faith.
Over 2000 plus years and Faith is still all that is needed.

Posted by: Hairyback Guy at January 28, 2016 08:37 PM (ej1L0)

138 Not a great movie, and too much CGI for no particular reason, but I didn't get all the rage at it from some religious people, like Beck.

I don't think it was intended as sucker-punch -- just a guy attempting to tell a story where there really are not many details in the Bible at all.

Given how little there is in the Bible -- this story is quite brief -- any film is going to have to manufacture a lot of details.

Posted by: ace at January 28, 2016 08:37 PM (dciA+)

139 old story of the Wandering Jew would be a good movie also... Legend he it he spit on Jesus so his punishment was that he couldn't die and he spent the rest of eternity walking the earth. Some argue Kane from Kung Fu is based on the

=====

Sybil by Par Lagerkvist - have to juice it up a bit but the bones may be there

Posted by: Bigby's Knuckle Sandwich at January 28, 2016 08:37 PM (Cq0oW)

140 Cadfael.


Thank you.

Posted by: Grump928(C) notes yet again at January 28, 2016 08:37 PM (rwI+c)

141 Looks good to me. Thanks, Ace.

Posted by: Joanne at January 28, 2016 08:38 PM (hgBpU)

142 I thought the Wandering Jew was Lazarus?

Posted by: Grump928(C) notes yet again at January 28, 2016 08:38 PM (rwI+c)

143 You know... Noah was tasked with finding 2 Trumps... and he couldn't... there was only one.... and God said... ok then... it's ok.. heh

Posted by: Yip & 2 Corinthians at January 28, 2016 08:38 PM (e7T6D)

144 >>>> Christian movies are always bad.

Posted by: Lauren at January 28, 2016 08:16 PM (Kqit+)

------

The only good religious movie I have seen that was artistic and
moving and not totally sentimental and cheesy is The Passion of the
Christ. Yeah, Mel Gibson.



Not sure where it fits on the Christian movie spectrum, but my fave movie with strong Christian themes is O Brother, Where Art Thou.

Have started to really dislike certain Christian movies like Fireproof after seeing Dalrock expose their anti-Christian feminist core.

Posted by: ReactionaryMonster at January 28, 2016 08:38 PM (uURQL)

145 Back on topic, the trailer does look good.

Posted by: rickl at January 28, 2016 08:39 PM (sdi6R)

146 >>>
Not sure where it fits on the Christian movie spectrum, but my fave movie with strong Christian themes is O Brother, Where Art Thou.

strong pagan themes too! Those sirens!

Posted by: ace at January 28, 2016 08:39 PM (dciA+)

147
I would check out David Suchet's In the Footsteps of St Paul.

http://goo.gl/xQPSMT

He is such a charming man and unlike most religious documentarians, he is actually a believer.

Posted by: Bruce With a Wang! at January 28, 2016 08:39 PM (iQIUe)

148 Either way I'm suspicious of such a zealous anti-christian suddenly becoming a convert.

They have a Road to Damascus moment?

Posted by: Pappy O'Daniel at January 28, 2016 08:39 PM (oVJmc)

149 Being a citizen of Rome is why St. Paul got to choose beheading rather than crucifixion for his execution (he didn't feel worthy of sharing that with Jesus).

St. Peter, being merely a Jew, was not affording this luxury, though they did permit him to be crucified upside down, as he too did not want to die as Jesus had, the upright cross already having become a symbol for the early Christians. The upside-down cross = St Peter's cross. St. Andrew had a similar request, and was crucified on an X shape, which you can still see in the British flag.

Posted by: leoncaruthers at January 28, 2016 08:39 PM (G5lyi)

150 Bitter Clinger--

I'm not familiar with the line of thought you're following there. Being a 1st century Christian was anything but convenient, and he was put to death by the Romans for his troubles. Plus, as a Lutheran, I'm a big Paul fan.

Posted by: Conservative Crank's iPhone at January 28, 2016 08:39 PM (Gosad)

151 Jus t saw the Revenant. Really liked the movie. Don't know if it was the temperature of the theatre but I felt like I was freezing my ass off the whole time, and vice versa. Tom Hardy was fabulous. DiCaprio failed the "can he make me forget its him" test. Do I smell Oscar?

Posted by: Dorks Strewn at January 28, 2016 08:40 PM (QdAXQ)

152 i don't mind Noah. it's a kid's story anyway

Posted by: Bigby's Knuckle Sandwich at January 28, 2016 08:40 PM (Cq0oW)

153 Those sirens!

And the Cyclops.

Posted by: Grump928(C) notes yet again at January 28, 2016 08:40 PM (rwI+c)

154 There are stories about how Christ's teachings and his ministry that can be seen to have more mystical qualities about the rituals than what became the norm.

If you're arguing that the gnostics were right, the problem with that theory is that the gnostics whose writings survive really loved them some Paul. Paul was all about "what no eye has seen and no ear has heard" (paraphrasing).

Another problem is that the gnostic writings that survive tend to be pretty, um, bogus. The Gospel of Thomas has been debunked (by Goodacre and a few others). Most of the rest of Nag Hammadi is mumbo-jumbo, authentic desert gibberish.

Posted by: the demon in the liquor bottle at January 28, 2016 08:40 PM (6FqZa)

155 "Also, have you seen Eduardo Verastegui?"
=======

The guy from "Chasing Papi"!?! I had no idea he had a side career making Christian movies!

Posted by: Kensington at January 28, 2016 08:40 PM (7Kbxu)

156 >>
Not sure where it fits on the Christian movie spectrum, but my fave movie with strong Christian themes is O Brother, Where Art Thou.
---
Wasn't that the story of Ulysses?

Posted by: All Hail Eris, Literate Savage at January 28, 2016 08:40 PM (jR7Wy)

157 Bear rapey

Posted by: Yip & 2 Corinthians at January 28, 2016 08:41 PM (e7T6D)

158 /off sock
//ugh

Posted by: boulder terlit hobo at January 28, 2016 08:41 PM (6FqZa)

159 ace yes it is something.

And Scipture will show up early. I suspect your lack of knowledge of Christianity is why you think they will hide it until the end but that's okay. The Crucifixion is Scripture and that needs to happen in Act I so there is a call to action, right?

Also, the centurion is likely going to talk to people who saw Jesus after his death. That is also from Scripture.

No doubt the centurion will be skeptical. And he will talk to people who are skeptical. People don't rise from the dead! This is also from Scripture! That's where we get the phrase "doubting Thomas." Thomas was an apostle, and he was skeptical until Jesus appeared to him.

So I expect the whole movie will be infused with Scripture. And if you think it only shows up at the end, well, then it will have told its story well.

Posted by: blaster at January 28, 2016 08:41 PM (2Ocf1)

160 Saul was a Pharisee, as Jewish as a Jew got. He was NOT a Roman.

Posted by: Conservative Crank's iPhone at January 28, 2016 08:27 PM (Gosad)

Saul was Roman. That's why he was able to exercise his right to be heard in Rome.

Posted by: Blano at January 28, 2016 08:41 PM (37D93)

161 "Have started to really dislike certain Christian movies like Fireproof"

That's what I mean when I say Christian movies are bad.

It's like Christian music.

Some of the most powerful, beautiful music ever created was created to worship God.

And then you have modern worship music that treats God like a boyfriend and thinks the height of lyricism is to say "yes lord, yes" 500 times.

It's just not good. And I think Christians think "hey, I'm doing this for God so it doesn't have to be "good" by worldly standards" but I think that's BS. If you're doing it for God it should be *really* good. Beyond reproach.

I mean, hey, I'm not doing anything to further God's kingdom so I guess I shouldn't throw stones, but those things are just like nails on a chalkboard to me.

Posted by: Lauren at January 28, 2016 08:42 PM (f3Iw2)

162 Rome was great if you were rich. Every one else lived in these slum highrises which were hotter than hell, fire hazards, and had rampant crime. Rome stunk to high heaven.

Posted by: Bruce With a Wang! at January 28, 2016 08:43 PM (iQIUe)

163 How long did it take Noah to build the Ark - 400 years? All that time he was preaching repentance but they didn't listen.

Posted by: tops at January 28, 2016 08:43 PM (AX1D8)

164 135 Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at January 28, 2016 08:30 PM (FkBIv)

I think that's "only 2 Corinthians but an overwhelming majority of Thessalonians"!


Posted by: Hrothgar

I think everyone knew what Trump was referring to.

Posted by: Dorks Strewn at January 28, 2016 08:43 PM (QdAXQ)

165 134 I'm suspicious of such a zealous anti-christian suddenly becoming a convert

You should have sock puppeted as Ananias.

Plus the whole early church. Acts 9:26. Can post the text for some reason.

Posted by: TexasDan at January 28, 2016 08:43 PM (TqXWc)

166 @160

See my new culpa above

Posted by: Conservative Crank's iPhone at January 28, 2016 08:43 PM (Gosad)

167 Exactly Blano @ 160

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at January 28, 2016 08:43 PM (voOPb)

168 >>>
So I expect the whole movie will be infused with Scripture. And if you think it only shows up at the end, well, then it will have told its story well.

no i get the crucifixion comes first act (or prologue). But there's nothing necessarily "religious' or supernatural about that -- most non-believers agree that a man called Iesu was crucified around 4 A.D. by Pilate.

When I say "religious" I'm talking about stuff that takes a clear position on the existence or non-existence of God (or Jesus' divinity). There will be hints about this, but no confirmation until the end.

because that's the end of the mystery.

Posted by: ace at January 28, 2016 08:43 PM (dciA+)

169 " I had no idea he had a side career making Christian movies!"

Pro-life movies at that!

Posted by: Lauren at January 28, 2016 08:43 PM (f3Iw2)

170 *mea* culpa.

Posted by: Conservative Crank's iPhone at January 28, 2016 08:44 PM (Gosad)

171 Lurker

Older women? You wanna talk older women, right? Right? Listen... I've schlonged more AMAZING married brawds than you ever even wetdreamed of! AMAZING quiff! Stuff you never even imagined! If I wrote a book about all the married brawds I had, it would be an amazing best seller, let me tell you! FAMOUS long-legs brawds! (But I never brag, 'cause that wouldn't be classy.)

I'm Donald Trump & I approved this disgusting message... and how!

Posted by: mnw (fair and ballast) at January 28, 2016 08:44 PM (rqQ57)

172 I think everyone knew what Trump was referring to.


Thespians?

Posted by: Grump928(C) notes yet again at January 28, 2016 08:44 PM (rwI+c)

173 Plus, as a Lutheran, I'm a big Paul fan.
Posted by: Conservative Crank's iPhone at January 28, 2016 08:39 PM (Gosad)

This Assemblies of God chick is a massive Paul fan. Aside from Christ, he is the human I admire the most. His epistles show the many sides of the man.

If I ever have any kids, I want them to have Nigerian names, but if I have a son I definitely want him to be named Paul.

Posted by: chique testing testing at January 28, 2016 08:44 PM (QX0Xt)

174 The second trailer directly mention Mary Magdalene and looks like she'll be a character.

Posted by: buzzion at January 28, 2016 08:44 PM (zt+N6)

175 >> Seems like the couple were being punished for being prudent.

Re-read the Book of Acts. They told the community they were going to sell a house and commit all the proceeds to the group, then held some back. The punishment was for lying about how much they gave, not for holding some back. Most joining the Church didn't give everything to it, but most didn't lie about what they were giving.

Posted by: leoncaruthers at January 28, 2016 08:44 PM (G5lyi)

176 Saul of Taurus was a Roman anchor baby.

Posted by: Dave at Buffalo Roam at January 28, 2016 08:45 PM (gHWQS)

177 Lauren, I know you're really active in the pro-life movement. Have you seen October Baby?

Posted by: chique testing testing at January 28, 2016 08:45 PM (QX0Xt)

178 @160

See my new culpa above

Posted by: Conservative Crank's iPhone at January 28, 2016 08:43 PM (Gosad)

I'm just late to the party, as usual.

Posted by: Blano at January 28, 2016 08:45 PM (uiVGU)

179 Saul of Taurus was a Roman anchor baby.
Posted by: Dave at Buffalo Roam


Bull

Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at January 28, 2016 08:46 PM (FkBIv)

180 Saul was a Roman citizen who, also, happened to be a Jew by birth and faith. Rome was the sort of empire where an ethnic non-Italian could become a citizen through service to the empire. This did, usually, include worship of Rome's gods, including the emperor, but loyal Jews got a waiver if they prayed *for* the emperor rather than to him.

Posted by: boulder terlit hobo at January 28, 2016 08:46 PM (6FqZa)

181 400 years to build a boat?


He must have been sick of that thing.

Posted by: eleven at January 28, 2016 08:47 PM (qUNWi)

182 161
If you're doing it for God it should be *really* good. Beyond reproach.
Posted by: Lauren at January 28, 2016 08:42 PM (f3Iw2)


I thought so.

Posted by: J. S. Bach at January 28, 2016 08:47 PM (sdi6R)

183 In many ways, Paul created the Christian Church as it exists today.

And that's not praise. There's some very bad thing that are entwined with the foundation of the Church and they can be laid directly at the feet of Paul.

So, the STORY of Saul becoming Paul was supposed to be one of a miracle, it could easily be and long told lie meant to fool the Christians into accepting the changes Paul brought about.

At the time, Saul was having a difficult time bringing the Christians to justice. What better thing to do in that case than to turn mole and destroy them from within?

Up until Paul, the Christian sect was a mystical cult that wasn't so concerned with spiritual materialism. Something that seized the Church of Rome for a thousand years until Luther demanded changes. (yes I know, Luther is problematical also. Hey. It's humans we're talking about)

Posted by: Bitter Clinger 1.0 and All That at January 28, 2016 08:47 PM (Xo1Rt)

184 Seems like the couple were being punished for being prudent. They gave most of their money to the apostles.
Posted by: Bruce With a Wang! at January 28, 2016 08:34 PM (iQIUe)


The story is in Acts 5. They were punished for lying, not for prudence.

When their action is judged, it is pointed out that the money was theirs to do as they pleased. The punishment is not for using the money as they wished, but for misrepresenting their act of giving as something it was not.

Like holding a bake sale and claiming all proceeds will go to charity, when in reality pocketing half of it. That's not prudence, that's fraud.

Posted by: ReactionaryMonster at January 28, 2016 08:47 PM (uURQL)

185 400 years to build a boat?

He must have been sick of that thing.
Posted by: eleven


And you thought the Professor was bad.

Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at January 28, 2016 08:48 PM (FkBIv)

186 I went on a blind date once that felt like 400 years....

Posted by: Yip & 2 Corinthians at January 28, 2016 08:48 PM (e7T6D)

187 173
See Caravaggio's painting Conversion of St.Paul on the Way to Damascus. it captures that moment perfectly.

Posted by: Tuna at January 28, 2016 08:48 PM (JSovD)

188 "Have you seen October Baby?"

Yes. I think it was definitely one of the better made Christian films. The story it tells is a fictionalized account of a real abortion survivor which makes it even more powerful.

Posted by: Lauren at January 28, 2016 08:48 PM (f3Iw2)

189 @181 Ha HA -I think being on the boat for most of a year made him very tired of it indeed.

Posted by: tops at January 28, 2016 08:49 PM (AX1D8)

190 AtC, yeah, loved Apocalypto too. Also, dead language movie. And dead ancient culture too. Gibson does have a preference for graphic violence though, but it's based on historic fact. I can barely stomach watching it, but oh well.

What he has done with Passion and Apocolypto is so hard to pull off for a movie especially with language angle. I think he is genius as a director and has an extraordinary, inspired, creative gift.

But then there is all his stupid baggage that gets in the way.

Posted by: L, Elle at January 28, 2016 08:49 PM (2x3L+)

191 Paul Kantner died.

Posted by: Bruce With a Wang! at January 28, 2016 08:49 PM (iQIUe)

192 Just kidding Bertram. I am well aware Saul was a Roman citizen by birth.

Posted by: Dave at Buffalo Roam at January 28, 2016 08:49 PM (gHWQS)

193 "So, the STORY of Saul becoming Paul was supposed to be one of a miracle, it could easily be and long told lie meant to fool the Christians into accepting the changes Paul brought about."

So wait, you're a Paul truther?

Posted by: Lauren at January 28, 2016 08:50 PM (f3Iw2)

194 Live presser from Oregon:


https://youtu.be/_lAYQLD-ZuY

Posted by: Country Singer at January 28, 2016 08:50 PM (GUBah)

195 Nood thread will Trump this.

Posted by: Duncanthrax the Bellicose at January 28, 2016 08:50 PM (sOhww)

196 Josephus was another Pharisaic Jew who was a Roman citizen - hence, "Titus Flavius Josephus". He wrote lots of books defending Judaism and Jewish history, so wasn't an apostate.

(Although there *are* those who still see the man as a traitor...)

Posted by: boulder terlit hobo at January 28, 2016 08:50 PM (6FqZa)

197 Just kidding Bertram. I am well aware Saul was a Roman citizen by birth.
Posted by: Dave at Buffalo Roam


You said Taurus. That's why I said bull.

Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at January 28, 2016 08:50 PM (FkBIv)

198 Since we have a side topic about Noah: I just figured out last year that Methusalah dies in the year of the flood.

And his name then seems more significant as well.

Posted by: TexasDan at January 28, 2016 08:51 PM (TqXWc)

199 St Paul and St Peter being contemporaries and associates, with Peter recognizing Paul as a fellow Apostle, the notion that St Paul "changed" Christianity is bullfeathers.

Posted by: leoncaruthers at January 28, 2016 08:51 PM (G5lyi)

200 Posted by: J. S. Bach at January 28, 2016 08:47 PM (sdi6R)

Me too!

Posted by: G. F. Handel at January 28, 2016 08:52 PM (wYnyS)

201 Always thought "seeing" was synonymous to "knowing".


Wasn't it Paul who demanded a trial because he was a Roman citizen.



Posted by: Ralph at January 28, 2016 08:52 PM (ZLAox)

202 Wasn't that the story of Ulysses?
Posted by: All Hail Eris, Literate Savage at January 28, 2016 08:40 PM (jR7Wy)


It is, and that's part of why I like it so much. Weaving classical stories and a Christian theme into good art.

(main character reaches end of his rope, prays to God, receives a miraculous salvation and baptism by an overwhelming flood)

Posted by: ReactionaryMonster at January 28, 2016 08:52 PM (uURQL)

203 What is "truth?"

Posted by: Pilate at January 28, 2016 08:53 PM (T/5A0)

204 So wait, you're a Paul truther?
Posted by: Lauren at January 28, 2016 08:50 PM (f3Iw2)


Best part is that he blames the Joooooooos.

Okay, that's unavoidable since we're dealing with Jesus ... but heh.

Posted by: ReactionaryMonster at January 28, 2016 08:54 PM (uURQL)

205 There are people out there saying the Kendricks movies are anti-Christian? Sheesh.

But Fireproof was a good story and its production values were low. Lauren, Christian move makers are half assign it on 200k budgets because they can't get more backing. Then they punch above their weight and get more backing.

It's how Robert Rodriguez did it.

But they made a lot of money with Fireproof and you can see the upgrade in Facing the Giants.

Posted by: blaster at January 28, 2016 08:56 PM (2Ocf1)

206 Two things we should be forever grateful for, popularized by Paul: 1. Bringing the Gospel to Gentiles.
2. BACON!

Posted by: Dave at Buffalo Roam at January 28, 2016 08:56 PM (gHWQS)

207 Posted by: Lauren at January 28, 2016 08:42 PM (f3Iw2)

I think there's a difference between simplicity, which can also be profound, and simplisticness. (Is that a word ?) For example in Nigeria we had some really simple choruses that touched me deeply. One of them was mostly singing, Jehovah, you are the most high, you are the Most High God. To me, that is a wonderful confession of worship despite the simplicity.

I find that a lot of black gospel music is also deeper than its pop rock worship music counterparts. ( maybe I'm biased.) For example, Fred Hammond songs are really great. You can tell that he and the other songwriters are really steeped in the scriptures.

I think, just like everything else in the culture, Christian music is also being dumbed down. It's not about the styles for me. I'm pretty sure there is no style of Christian music being sung anywhere on the globe that is like what the early church sang. It's about the words, and way too many of today's choruses are about me, me, me, about how God makes me feel, rather than being directed upwards to God.

Anyway, /rant off.

Posted by: chique testing testing at January 28, 2016 08:56 PM (QX0Xt)

208 Like holding a bake sale and claiming all proceeds will go to charity, when in reality pocketing half of it. That's not prudence, that's fraud.
Posted by: ReactionaryMonster at January 28, 2016 08:47 PM (uURQL)

=============
But having your eyes bleed out just for a inconsequential lie? Harsh, man, harsh...

Posted by: Bruce With a Wang! at January 28, 2016 08:56 PM (iQIUe)

209
At the time, Saul was having a difficult time bringing the Christians to justice. What better thing to do in that case than to turn mole and destroy them from within?

Up until Paul, the Christian sect was a mystical cult that wasn't so concerned with spiritual materialism. Something that seized the Church of Rome for a thousand years until Luther demanded changes. (yes I know, Luther is problematical also. Hey. It's humans we're talking about)
Posted by: Bitter Clinger 1.0 and All That at January 28, 2016 08:47 PM (Xo1Rt)

Dude. He was so successful at persecuting the church that he started the diaspora.

So then he cleverly joined the church. He himself being persecuted, beaten and living the life of a semipermanent nomad, in order to poison it from within, ultimately sacrificing his own life in pursuit of that goal?

Posted by: TexasDan at January 28, 2016 08:57 PM (TqXWc)

210 There are people out there saying the Kendricks movies are anti-Christian? Sheesh.


Do you believe that husbands should submit to their wives? Don't just feel good about the story, examine what it teaches against Christian doctrine.

https://dalrock.wordpress.com/2013/01/03/how-fireproof-lowers-the-boom/

Posted by: ReactionaryMonster at January 28, 2016 08:59 PM (uURQL)

211 But having your eyes bleed out just for a inconsequential lie? Harsh, man, harsh...
Posted by: Bruce With a Wang! at January 28, 2016 08:56 PM (iQIUe)


Lying to God is by definition not inconsequential.

Posted by: ReactionaryMonster at January 28, 2016 09:00 PM (uURQL)

212 Two things we should be forever grateful for, popularized by Paul: 1. Bringing the Gospel to Gentiles.
2. BACON!
Posted by: Dave at Buffalo Roam at January 28, 2016 08:56 PM (gHWQS)

Peter brought us bacon, my friend.

And baptism of the holy spirit for gentiles. Woot!

Posted by: TexasDan at January 28, 2016 09:00 PM (TqXWc)

213 Is this based on the game of the same name?

Posted by: Shiggz at January 28, 2016 09:01 PM (G7wcY)

214 If you're arguing that the gnostics were right, the problem with that theory is that the gnostics whose writings survive really loved them some Paul. Paul was all about "what no eye has seen and no ear has heard" (paraphrasing).

=====

there were plenty of jewish_Christians who wouldn't accept Paul, including early on many of the apostles.

Posted by: Bigby's Knuckle Sandwich at January 28, 2016 09:01 PM (Cq0oW)

215 Wait, whose eyes bled out. Is that a movie?

Posted by: chique testing testing at January 28, 2016 09:01 PM (QX0Xt)

216 >> But having your eyes bleed out just for a inconsequential lie? Harsh, man, harsh...

No lie is inconsequential. They lied straight to the Apostle and the Church when they could have just been honest, they sinned against fellow Christians for personal gain and -- Ace will love this one -- they signaled virtue that they didn't have. They wanted the credit for giving away everything without having actually done so.

Posted by: leoncaruthers at January 28, 2016 09:02 PM (G5lyi)

217 ============
But having your eyes bleed out just for a inconsequential lie? Harsh, man, harsh...
Posted by: Bruce With a Wang! at January 28, 2016 08:56 PM (iQIUe)

Acts reports them dropping dead. The eye melting sounds like artistic license. And unfortunate.

Posted by: TexasDan at January 28, 2016 09:03 PM (TqXWc)

218 I have always said there is a lot of science fiction in the Bible. Ezekiel riding a flaming chariot up into heaven. The three men cast into the furnace who are unharmed.

Mohammed and his fiery winged horse who takes him to Jerusalem and back overnight.

Aliens, even.

Posted by: Lewis Lesshausher at January 28, 2016 09:03 PM (2qO05)

219 Heh.

http://www.greatdreams.com/anunnaki/grandma-nammu.htm

Posted by: Hot Gates at January 28, 2016 09:03 PM (KJZeR)

220 >> Wait, whose eyes bled out. Is that a movie?

Acts 5, Chique. Ananais and Sapphira.

Posted by: leoncaruthers at January 28, 2016 09:04 PM (G5lyi)

221 If we're talking about Ananias and Sapphira, who literally dropped dead, no eye bleeding recorded, this was the beginning of a new chapter for God's people as the early church was being established. They lied to the Holy Spirit, which is a pretty big deal.

People have pointed out that at the inauguration of various covenants or new chapters in his relationship with his people, God metes out harsh punishments to violations of his law.

You will actually find that God is incredibly patient the vast majority of the time. In the Old Testament, he wanted the Israelites and the people of Judah for at least 100 years that they had to stop their evil ways or be punished before he act finally punished them. And they were pretty evil.

Slow to anger and abounding in love.

Posted by: chique testing testing at January 28, 2016 09:07 PM (QX0Xt)

222 Bigby: The anti-Pauline Jewish-Christians didn't intersect with the Egyptian gnostics, which gnostics are the ones Bitter Clinger is discussing.

The earliest Jewish-Christian writings *don't* survive, unfortunately. Unlike Gnostics I get the impression that Messianic Jews would have been direct witnesses to events.

Posted by: boulder terlit hobo at January 28, 2016 09:07 PM (6FqZa)

223 185 400 years to build a boat?

He must have been sick of that thing.
Posted by: eleven

And you thought the Professor was bad.


Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr.

I understand it took 40 years to pay off, like most boats. Little known fact-- after that experience it was Noah that originated the admonition, "If it flyeth, floateth or fuketh, lease don't buy."

Posted by: Dirks Strewn at January 28, 2016 09:08 PM (QdAXQ)

224 Mohammed and his fiery winged horse who takes him to Jerusalem and back overnight.


Huh?

Posted by: chique testing testing at January 28, 2016 09:08 PM (QX0Xt)

225 Mohammed and his fiery winged horse who takes him to Jerusalem and back overnight

That's not in the Bible. It's not even in the Qur'an, if we are splitting hairs . . .

Posted by: boulder terlit hobo at January 28, 2016 09:09 PM (6FqZa)

226 Pretty sure Mohammad was born centuries after the last book of the Bible was written.

Posted by: chique testing testing at January 28, 2016 09:10 PM (QX0Xt)

227 I saw a good Christian movie made by an independent co. It's probably about 10 years old now, "Noelle". A weird little movie but I still think about it to this day. My hash tags for the movie would be # Catholicism, Priesthood, loss, abortion, pride, lust, love, sin, redemption,#

Posted by: small town girl at January 28, 2016 09:11 PM (UYkjZ)

228 Lying to God is by definition not inconsequential.
Posted by: ReactionaryMonster at January 28, 2016 09:00 PM (uURQL)

===========
They lied to Peter not God.
People lie to God all the time. Dont see their eyes bleeding out nor would I want to. Again, way to harsh.

Posted by: Bruce With a Wang! at January 28, 2016 09:12 PM (iQIUe)

229 Bigby: The anti-Pauline Jewish-Christians didn't intersect with the Egyptian gnostics, which gnostics are the ones Bitter Clinger is discussing.

===

agreed. throwing it in there

Posted by: Bigby's Knuckle Sandwich at January 28, 2016 09:13 PM (Cq0oW)

230 i mean if you're going to critique Paul go to them and use Paul's words. it's a much stronger argument. it's my starting point anyway.

Posted by: Bigby's Knuckle Sandwich at January 28, 2016 09:14 PM (Cq0oW)

231 No, it was in the morning! It was a bright fireball visible in broad daylight.


Duh, I misread the am/pm thingy. I was inside at that time.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy at January 28, 2016 09:16 PM (LUgeY)

232 Dont see their eyes bleeding out nor would I want to. Again, way to harsh.
Posted by: Bruce With a Wang! at January 28, 2016 09:12 PM (iQIUe)

You do realize that their eyes didn't bleed out right?

Posted by: chique testing testing at January 28, 2016 09:16 PM (QX0Xt)

233 Jonah is a nice, short book, worth a read, and encapsulates the Covenant with God beautifully. It's actually sort of an amazing comedy, and I'd love to see it performed as one with some reverence.

Jonah hates the Ninevites, see, and God chooses him to be his prophet to them. Jonah says no, I hate those guys, I'm getting on a boat and going the opposite direction. There's a huge storm and the crew of the boat are terrified and start asking what they've done to offend the powers of Heaven. Jonah admits that he's running away from a job God gave him, and they flip out like "He told you to do something and you said no? Are you high?" and Jonah says "you should probably just throw me off the boat".

They do, he gets swallowed by the big fish and spat up on the shores of Ninevah. He basically says "fine, I'll go tell those worthless Ninevites that they are terrible sinners. They're awful, they won't listen, and then I'll get to watch God visit vengeance upon them!". Then he goes and tells them they suck at obeying God's Law... and they repent. Sackcloth, ashes, prayers, sacrifices, everything, so God shows them mercy.

Jonah is utterly livid at this point and storms off into the desert to just sit and wait 'til the elements kill him. God grows a gourd leaf just over his head to give him shade and keep him alive, then tells him to write all of this down if he wants to be done propheting. That's where the book ends. It's really hilarious.

Posted by: leoncaruthers at January 28, 2016 09:18 PM (G5lyi)

234 >> People lie to God all the time. Dont see their eyes bleeding out nor would I want to. Again, way to harsh.

What the hell translation are you reading?

Posted by: leoncaruthers at January 28, 2016 09:21 PM (G5lyi)

235 The veggietales Jonah movie was another Christian flick that was almost good. Probably should have been left to a DVD bible series.

Posted by: boulder terlit hobo at January 28, 2016 09:24 PM (6FqZa)

236 The plot sounds very similar to Stephen Dando-Collins' The Inquest except that it is set about 40 years after the crucifixion during the final stages of the Jewish War.

Although The Inquest is billed as fiction, Dando-Collins has written a number of purported non-fiction books about the Roman Empire that I view as more speculation than history. I forgive him, though, because even though the theme of the book may be BS, you learn so much interesting stuff it's hard not to like the book. For example, his book The Blood of the Caesars is about the death and purported murder of Germanicus. Although he purports to identify the murderers, I doubt he's right but he does give a lot of interesting details about the people and the times.

Reminds me of the TV show Deadliest Warrior in which the cold, cold computer determines who would win in a fight between a Roman gladiator and an Apache warrior or a ninja. Although the conclusion may be BS, you learn so much about gladiators, Apaches, and ninjas that it makes watching worthwhile.

Posted by: The Great White Snark at January 28, 2016 09:25 PM (Nwg0u)

237 Ace, you do realize, don't you, that you have significant numbers of the Horde praying for you often, and the better members praying daily?

CS Lewis wrote:

"Amiable agnostics will talk cheerfully about "man's search for God." To me, as I then was, they might as well have talked about the mouse's search for the cat."

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/questionofgod/ownwords/joy.html

Posted by: Michael the Hobbit at January 28, 2016 09:26 PM (dPpmC)

238 I find the whole premise more question begging and irritating than anything else. I've probably been asked one dozen too many times "So how do you explain the empty tomb, hunh?" and had to explain carefully that there's no evidence of any tomb whatsoever, much less an empty one, outside of texts that sell a particular religion that relies for its validity on the empty tomb......Jesus fatigue, in all likelihood. I'd probably enjoy it more if I was a good natured agnostic in a country that didn't really care that much about it all, instead of a bloody minded atheist surrounded by religionists.

Posted by: HiHo at January 28, 2016 09:28 PM (WclzR)

239 jeb wants a more open ended AUMF?

What a fuck.

Posted by: Harry Paratestes at January 28, 2016 09:28 PM (AkOaV)

240 Wallace, that's a debate? Ask everyone to attack Ted?

Posted by: Harry Paratestes at January 28, 2016 09:28 PM (AkOaV)

241 They lied to Peter not God.

People lie to God all the time. Dont see their eyes bleeding out nor would I want to. Again, way to harsh.
Posted by: Bruce With a Wang! at January 28, 2016 09:12 PM (iQIUe)


The supernatural death says otherwise. It's not like the early Christians chose to physically execute them for lying. They were stricken dead by non-human means.

God chose to make an example of them. That's why the story was recorded and why it's remembered and learned from.

Posted by: ReactionaryMonster at January 28, 2016 09:29 PM (uURQL)

242 Trump really made the right call not showing up. These people are dicks.

Fuck this noise.

This is not a debate.

It's a circle jerk firing squad.

Posted by: Harry Paratestes at January 28, 2016 09:30 PM (AkOaV)

243 I've seen a movie here a roman chases after the resurrected Jesus but never catches up. Long time ago

Posted by: macko at January 28, 2016 09:33 PM (/mlup)

244 HiHo, the tomb matters a lot less than the martyrdom of the Apostles. They stood to gain nothing - and most lost everything - for continuing to spread the Gospel. Had they relented at any point, they could have faded into obscurity. Instead they all faced execution. St John died much later, true, but only because he survived being boiled alive.

Later martyrs died believing what they'd been told by these men or by their successors, but the Apostles went to their deaths testifying about what they'd seen. A man who has no reason to fear death for the truth will go to it happy. Who dies for a lie?

Posted by: leoncaruthers at January 28, 2016 09:34 PM (G5lyi)

245 There was a similiar movie in the 80's called The Inquiry on pretty much the same plot starring Keith carridine and Harvey Keitel.

Posted by: canuk at January 28, 2016 09:34 PM (I/h67)

246 "So how do you explain the empty tomb, hunh?" and had to explain
carefully that there's no evidence of any tomb whatsoever, much less an
empty one, outside of texts that sell a particular religion that relies
for its validity on the empty tomb......Jesus fatigue, in all
likelihood.


There's evidence that Jesus existed, that Jesus was executed, and that the authorities of the time failed to produce a body to dispel the rumors that this failed messiah figure had resurrected.

The simplest explanation of why a third of the world is currently nominally Christian and how it ended up that the entire world uses his birth-date for its calender is that he is who he said he was, and did what his disciples said he did. Everything else requires a more complicated and less satisfactory explanation.

Posted by: ReactionaryMonster at January 28, 2016 09:35 PM (uURQL)

247 400 years to build a boat?

He must have been sick of that thing.

-
Would have been 300 years but Noah just had to have a holodeck.

Posted by: The Great White Snark at January 28, 2016 09:40 PM (Nwg0u)

248
The old story of the Wandering Jew would be a good movie also... Legend he it he spit on Jesus so his punishment was that he couldn't die and he spent the rest of eternity walking the earth. Some argue Kane from Kung Fu is based on the story...

Posted by: Rory at January 28, 2016 08:29 PM (J567a)








Or that story's close cousin, Barry Sadler's Casca, The Eternal Mercenary pulp novels. Casca Longinus is the Roman who stabbed a crucified yet still living Jesus with a spear. He's condemned to wander the earth as a soldier until the Second Coming.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at January 28, 2016 09:45 PM (o98Jz)

249 I need to apologize, although some say it took 400 years to build the Ark most people think it was less than 100 years. My point was he was calling people into to repentance all the time he was building the Ark and they laughed at him.

Posted by: tops at January 28, 2016 10:00 PM (AX1D8)

250 Yeah, this is why...

No, none of that is decent historical argument, yes I've heard it before, and it wasn't any good before either. Its like you two are reading from a bloody script... You are actually arguing for the historicity of a story that literally has zombies wandering around Jerusalem, dead people coming back to life, and demons causing suicidal pigs.

Just....enough already. You have your reasons, I have mine. I don't accept responsibility for you making these arguments. Give it a rest.

Posted by: HiHo at January 28, 2016 10:03 PM (WclzR)

251 >> Casca Longinus is the Roman who stabbed a crucified yet still living Jesus with a spear.

That doesn't square with the Gospel account. St John records in 19:34 that blood and water came from the spear-wound, indicating that the blood had settled out from the stopping of the heart, i.e. Jesus being already dead.

Posted by: leoncaruthers at January 28, 2016 10:10 PM (G5lyi)

252 @248

I think that is a pulp interpretation, otherwise it is taught that Gaius Cassius Longinus only pierced Jesus' side because he KNEW he was already dead and did so to prove it. (And thus the breaking of his legs to advance death was unnecessary, and fulfilled Scripture, see Psalms 22 and 34)

Posted by: FredB at January 28, 2016 10:12 PM (uPfvr)

253 HiHo, why did the Apostles die for it if it's a lie? Your argument is an appeal to incredulity and nothing more.

"I can't believe it, therefore it's false" is a logical fallacy. You know that, right?

Posted by: leoncaruthers at January 28, 2016 10:13 PM (G5lyi)

254 No, none of that is decent historical argument, yes I've heard it before, and it wasn't any good before either. Its like you two are reading from a bloody script...

What on earth is a historical argument, and what makes for a decent one?


You are actually arguing for the historicity of a story that literally has zombies wandering around Jerusalem, dead people coming back to life, and demons causing suicidal pigs.

Being incredulous isn't an argument.


Just....enough already. You have your reasons, I have mine.

I don't care about persuading you. This was a comparison of notes, and nothing you have is intellectually superior to what I have so far.

And I'm not even looking at the practical aspect - a life inline with Christ's teachings is far superior than anything else marketed in the modern world.

As far as the modern world has divorced itself from its Christian roots, it has degenerated into murderous materialist irrationalism.

Good luck fighting off Islam without a religion, by the way.

Posted by: ReactionaryMonster at January 28, 2016 10:13 PM (uURQL)

255 Sorry, IllTempered @ 248 and Leon@252, I missed your comments when posting my own.

But I think we agree,


Posted by: FredB at January 28, 2016 10:16 PM (uPfvr)

256 I stopped watching Exodus when it didn't use BC which told me that it would be shit since they didn't believe in what they were making.

Say what you will about Mel Gibson but you could tell he poured his soul into that movie.

Posted by: Patrick From Ohio at January 28, 2016 10:19 PM (c4yY7)

257 Richard Burton did this story better in "The Robe" even if he was drunk in every scene. He was always drunk, that was just Burton.

Posted by: Tom Servo at January 28, 2016 10:41 PM (V2Yro)

258 Appeal to incredulity is quite reasonable, so long as it isn't merely personal incredulity, but generalizeable principled skepticism about miracle stories and the like. If a child tells you that the window was broken by aliens, it is reasonable to be incredulous. If a book tells you that a guy who was dead for three days came back to life and that zombies wandered around Jerusalem chatting with their neighbors, it is reasonable to be skeptical. If the only evidence for the miracle story is the mere say so of some texts, it is even more reasonable to be skeptical.

People believe in odd things. People die for odd beliefs. If dying for belief signals truth, then by all the evidence Islam MUST be true, because if there is one thing jihadis know how to do, it is die for their beliefs. Parenthetically I far prefer Modern Christianity to Modern Islam. Hands down, no question, you guys have it all over them, but that is in part because modern Christians tend to take the laudable attitude that it is better to make your enemy die for their belief than for you to die for your own, though I confess I don't find that a terribly Christ-like ethos.




Posted by: HiHo at January 28, 2016 10:46 PM (WclzR)

259 Again, dying for something you believe because you've been told and trust the teller is entirely different from dying for testimony to something you've personally witnessed.

But you're an atheist using pejorative language on purpose, heart well hardened and intellect dulled by snark. This will be lost on you.

Posted by: leoncaruthers at January 28, 2016 10:54 PM (G5lyi)

260 Is Mel Gibson involved somehow? Please say yes.

Posted by: simplemind at January 28, 2016 11:03 PM (BTnAK)

261 If you want a good religious movie, try "the song of Bernadette". Its about the apparitions of Mary at Lourdes. Sounds corny I know but it is actually a deep and moving film on many levels, not overly 'religious' or preachy or corny at all. Vincent Price is in it!

Posted by: Ben H at January 28, 2016 11:10 PM (gJEsZ)

262 "dying for testimony to something you have personally witnessed" is question begging. We don't have any evidence of WHAT was witnessed, or by whom, outside the texts. Yeah, my heart is hardened towards such stuff: You got that part dead right.

Posted by: HiHo at January 29, 2016 12:03 AM (WclzR)

263 The Robe...

or "Quo Vadis"

Posted by: furious at January 29, 2016 12:18 AM (8lw4l)

264 Either way I'm suspicious of such a zealous anti-christian suddenly becoming a convert.

Hey, David Brock went to work for Hillary...no zeal like that of the convert.

Posted by: furious at January 29, 2016 12:29 AM (8lw4l)

265 If a book tells you that a guy who was dead for three days came back to
life and that zombies wandered around Jerusalem chatting with their
neighbors, it is reasonable to be skeptical. If the only evidence for
the miracle story is the mere say so of some texts, it is even more
reasonable to be skeptical.


We have not just the existence of the texts, but the history of how they came to be accepted and the fact that they survived skepticism of an adult population familiar with the history of events.

All you are saying is that you want to apply unequal arbitrary standards and call it "reasonable".

It is not.


If dying for belief signals truth, then by all the evidence Islam MUST be true

Shoddy false equivalence. On top of your "no evidence" claims, you are not rational enough for this discussion.

Hint: Unconvincing or inconclusive evidence is unconvincing is still evidence.

Posted by: ReactionaryMonster at January 29, 2016 12:46 AM (1D4Ef)

266 Yes. This is something.

Posted by: Easein at January 29, 2016 12:48 AM (6C40H)

267 Saw both trailers.
Will go see it.

I believe in the Resurrection and no flick will change that.

Posted by: The Man from Athens at January 29, 2016 12:51 AM (lQqij)

268 If dying for belief signals truth, then by all the evidence Islam MUST be true
Posted by: ReactionaryMonster at January 29, 2016 12:46 AM (1D4Ef)

That's killing in the name of Islam.
Blowing up just yourself gets you nothing.
Not even an HIV infected goat.

Posted by: The Man from Athens at January 29, 2016 12:55 AM (lQqij)

269 An Indian Brahmin was sitting next to a Methodist minister in a flight from London to Calcutta, and they talked of many things, including their beliefs. The Hindu said to the minister, "I do not know the story of Jesus in any detail. What is it?"

The minister was a bit surprised, but he told the man, "He was incarnated as a man and lived among us for 33 years; he taught his disciples what God would have us do, then he was crucified -- and on the third day he rose from the dead and appeared before the disciples, saying he, the Son of God, had been slain to be a full, perfect, and sufficient sacrifice for the sins of the whole world, and to save us from eternal death and damnation."

The Hindu gentleman was silent for a moment, then he looked straight into the minister's eyes, and said, "If what you say is true, then this is not only the Most important thing -- it's the Only Thing."

The minister was stunned, for he saw that this man had seen to the heart of what he himself had lost the mystery of. And remembered once again that, yes, His death and resurrection are the Only Thing that matters in this life.

Posted by: Beverly at January 29, 2016 02:16 AM (/UGCd)

270 All I know is what I read, from the time, and that's in the book of Matthew, Chapter 27.

It says that the Jewish leaders were afraid of Jesus' body being stolen, and that a claim would be made that he had risen from the dead. Given stories like Lazarus and several others, resurrection was a key component of the Messiah story - and that was a very, very big deal at the time.

To prevent a staged resurrection, they asked Pilate to post a guard, and a guard was posted.

Like the movie Noah, or the recent series The Bible, the details are unknown. How many guards, were they Roman or Hebrew, were they punished or even executed, etc.

Unknown.

If you want to dramatize the event, however, these details have to be filled in.

Is it a Conversion Tale? Yes, by definition. If, like me, you are a Christian then this is one of the cornerstones of the Faith - arguably the primary one.

Believe or don't believe. I appreciate you being respectful either way. If you want to dive deeper, ask whatever you'd like.

Posted by: RobM1981 at January 29, 2016 04:28 AM (zurJC)

271 Well, I'm obviously late to the party. But I do want to recommend the recent translation of Gyorgy Sprio's "Captivity." It's a great introduction to the first century AD Mediterranean world, especially Rome, Judea, and Alexandria. The scene where the protagonist shares a cell with Jesus in Jerusalem got a lot of press when the book was released, but it's really almost a throwaway scene in the book. The interesting part is later, when he has dinner with Pilate and others...there he hears that the crucifixions that day were more of a crowd control/sending a message act. Highly recommend the book.

Posted by: dwinnorcal at January 29, 2016 05:33 AM (3OTR8)

272 I've mentioned this before, so here goes. A friend I worked with in Seattle had a book that was titled something along the lines of "The Talessman of Jesus Christ".
It was a translation of the Roman Empires documents of the Senate; still existing in the Vatican. According to the preface a group of scholars received permission to translate reports to the Roman Senate on King Herod killing all the male infants shortly after Christ was born. Also a report on Judea after the Crucifixion of Christ, and interviews of Mary and Joseph.
I only read as far a the report of Herod, before he moved and wanted his book back (1994). It was a difficult read because of the English of the time it was written. A whole lot of thees and thou's. The sentence structure was killing me. I it was translated from Latin to English in the early 1800's. I have never been able to find anything about it since.

Posted by: Paladin at January 29, 2016 06:25 AM (yLtno)

273 I saw the preview for Risen when we saw War Room. It looked really good and audience reaction seemed positive.

Hopefully they don't screw it up.

Posted by: digitalbrownshirt at January 29, 2016 06:26 AM (ROUi8)

274 Actually the claims of Christ's Resurrection were a problem to the Jews, not the Romans. For the Romans, the Crucifixion was just a routine execution of one more rabble-rouser, forgotten almost as soon as it was done.

Posted by: John at January 29, 2016 07:56 AM (VPsfR)

275 Too much assuming ang supposing

Posted by: F that F-in F-er at January 29, 2016 09:18 AM (4Z0vT)

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They Done Found Us Out, Cletus: Intrepid Internet Detective Figures Out Our Master Plan
Shock: Josh Marshall Almost Mentions Sarin Discovery in Iraq
Leather-Clad Biker Freaks Terrorize Australian Town
When Clinton Was President, Torture Was Cool
What Wonkette Means When She Explains What Tina Brown Means
Wonkette's Stand-Up Act
Wankette HQ Gay-Rumors Du Jour
Here's What's Bugging Me: Goose and Slider
My Own Micah Wright Style Confession of Dishonesty
Outraged "Conservatives" React to the FMA
An On-Line Impression of Dennis Miller Having Sex with a Kodiak Bear
The Story the Rightwing Media Refuses to Report!
Our Lunch with David "Glengarry Glen Ross" Mamet
The House of Love: Paul Krugman
A Michael Moore Mystery (TM)
The Dowd-O-Matic!
Liberal Consistency and Other Myths
Kepler's Laws of Liberal Media Bias
John Kerry-- The Splunge! Candidate
"Divisive" Politics & "Attacks on Patriotism" (very long)
The Donkey ("The Raven" parody)
News/Chat