aceofspadeshq at gee mail.com
CBD:
cbd.aoshq at gee mail.com
Buck:
buck.throckmorton at protonmail.com
joe mannix:
mannix2024 at proton.me
MisHum:
petmorons at gee mail.com
J.J. Sefton:
sefton at cutjibnewsletter.com
Good Lord: Girl Pressures Boyfriend to Commit Suicide
My first reflex is to say she shouldn't be up on manslaughter charges.
She didn't kill this guy. She just strongly encouraged him to do what he said he wanted to do. But I guess she runs afoul of some assisted suicide law, outlawing the giving of advice or encouragement to one seeking to kill himself. (If there is no such forbiddance, then this prosecution is just wrong.) Whatever the legalities, this is truly outrageous. She's got some kind of Angel of Death complex going, whispering people to the grave with her sweet (hot) nothings. First of all, we need to know what kind of crazy, hot piece of ass we're talking about.
For more than a week in July 2014, Carter and Roy exchanged hundreds of messages in which Carter insisted that Roy would be better off dead. "You’re finally going to be happy in heaven. No more pain," she told him in one message. "I'’s okay to be scared and it’s normal. I mean, you're about to die." ...She spoke with him on the telephone as he killed himself with CO. At one point he got out of the truck, thinking it wasn't working. She told him to get back inside. It's just so strange and ugly.
"You always say you’re gonna do it, but you never do," Carter complained. "I just want to make sure tonight is the real thing." Another time, she texted: "You can't keep pushing it off, though. That's all you keep doing." Carter was insistent, even when Roy steered the topic to other things: ROY: How was your day? CARTER: When are you doing it? Roy said he was having a good day, but Carter wasn’t satisfied. CARTER: Really? ROY: Yes. CARTER: That’s great. What did you do? ROY: Ended up going to work for a little bit and then just looked stuff up. CARTER: When are you gonna do it? Stop ignoring the question??? Roy had doubts, and he was scared, according to his texts. What if it didn’t work and he ended up injured for the rest of his life? How would his family cope with the loss? Carter had answers. He would be her guardian angel in heaven. She would comfort his family and they would move on. If he followed the directions he had found online for killing himself with carbon monoxide, it would "100 percent work," she said.
Comments
(Jump to bottom of comments)Posted by: Nip Sip at September 01, 2015 03:34 PM (0FSuD)
Posted by: mallfly at September 01, 2015 03:34 PM (qSIlh)
Posted by: Roy at September 01, 2015 03:35 PM (rso4m)
Posted by: One-Eyed Cat Peeping in the Seafood Store at September 01, 2015 03:35 PM (aeVIR)
Posted by: Insomniac at September 01, 2015 03:35 PM (2Ojst)
Posted by: jc at September 01, 2015 03:35 PM (iRJ+A)
Posted by: Nip Sip at September 01, 2015 03:36 PM (0FSuD)
Posted by: Lizzy at September 01, 2015 03:36 PM (NOIQH)
Posted by: Mccool at September 01, 2015 03:36 PM (GpBx+)
Posted by: Ronald Raven at September 01, 2015 03:36 PM (hHFOx)
Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at September 01, 2015 03:37 PM (W5DcG)
Posted by: Ronald Raven at September 01, 2015 03:37 PM (hHFOx)
Posted by: simplemind at September 01, 2015 03:37 PM (5vV+V)
Posted by: Lizzy at September 01, 2015 03:37 PM (NOIQH)
Posted by: Brad Delp at September 01, 2015 03:37 PM (V40IZ)
Posted by: Roy at September 01, 2015 03:37 PM (rso4m)
Let's introduce her to the ISIS pen-pal network. She sounds like she'd be more effective than Obama has allowed the military to be.
Posted by: MTF at September 01, 2015 03:37 PM (TxJGV)
Posted by: HR braucht ein Bier at September 01, 2015 03:38 PM (/kI1Q)
I guess it didn't occur to the ghoul to urge him to see a psychiatrist, therapist, get on some anti depressant medication? No, because she wanted some perceived control over life and death. SHE needs to see a psychiatrist.
Posted by: FenelonSpoke at September 01, 2015 03:38 PM (OSs/l)
Posted by: Roy at September 01, 2015 03:39 PM (VndSC)
Posted by: alec the great at September 01, 2015 03:39 PM (z2Pt2)
If she avoids jail, her face should be plastered everywhere. Shame her. Shun her completely.
Of course I'm an asshole and I think this should have been done with that beeyoch who sued her parents for not sending her to the college she wanted.
Posted by: Azenogoth (Freedom or Fire) at September 01, 2015 03:39 PM (4nmNX)
Would have made for a great episode of Catfish.
Not to be too bleak about it, but sometimes you laugh when it hurts too much to cry.
Posted by: Chupacabras at September 01, 2015 03:40 PM (V40IZ)
Posted by: mallfly at September 01, 2015 03:40 PM (qSIlh)
I read all the way to the end--she wanted the attention people get when a loved one commits suicide. Munchausen by proxy.
Posted by: HR braucht ein Bier at September 01, 2015 03:40 PM (/kI1Q)
Posted by: Blanco Basura at September 01, 2015 03:40 PM (4WhSY)
This is just ghoulish and demonic.
I'm not sure if manslaughter is the right charge, but she was clearly taking advantage of a mentally disturbed person for her own gain.
Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at September 01, 2015 03:40 PM (/SIwB)
Posted by: Boss Moss at September 01, 2015 03:41 PM (DsveK)
"Hi honey. How was your day?"
"My day was fine, now cut the bullcrap. When are you going to kill yourself?"
Posted by: Ronald Raven at September 01, 2015 03:41 PM (hHFOx)
Posted by: Adirondack Patriot at September 01, 2015 03:41 PM (4AVeu)
Posted by: Adrienne at September 01, 2015 03:41 PM (lVcuh)
Posted by: Methos believes in free will(ow) at September 01, 2015 03:41 PM (ZbV+0)
Posted by: OG Celtic-American at September 01, 2015 03:41 PM (Csqn6)
Posted by: NotCoach at September 01, 2015 03:42 PM (rsudF)
Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at September 01, 2015 03:42 PM (/SIwB)
Posted by: ChristyBlinky, aging supermodel Redneck Queen at September 01, 2015 03:42 PM (mOmt+)
Posted by: Boss Moss at September 01, 2015 03:42 PM (DsveK)
Posted by: Fritz at September 01, 2015 03:42 PM (UzPAd)
Posted by: Blue Oyster Cult at September 01, 2015 03:43 PM (3FBAK)
Ask any married man.
Posted by: Azenogoth (Freedom or Fire) at September 01, 2015 03:43 PM (4nmNX)
Posted by: Eisenhorn at September 01, 2015 03:43 PM (CrJzY)
>>It's just so strange and ugly.
In the Law and Order SVU episode, she'll be the plucky activist."
Just finished the first draft and we made her a pro-life activist. Her boyfriend felt guilty about telling lies about the glorious people at Palnned Parenthood.
Posted by: Writer for Law & Order at September 01, 2015 03:43 PM (OD2ni)
You know, a suspicious person might think Kavorkian liked killing people, that he wasn't just doing that whole assisted suicide thing for humanitarian reasons, that he was in fact a monster.
I'm a suspicious person. I thinkthe girlfriend got off on the rush when she sent her idiot boyfriend over the abyss. I think she's a ghoul, a blackhearted monster. Surely she can be nailed on an incitement or depraved indifferencerap. Something.
Posted by: troyriser at September 01, 2015 03:43 PM (Bvf82)
Posted by: simplemind at September 01, 2015 03:43 PM (5vV+V)
CO2 in sufficiently high concentrations kills by hypoxia.
This will be on the test. And take that gum out of your mouth...
Posted by: Kodos the Executioner at September 01, 2015 03:44 PM (hvG3q)
I was so used to calling CO2 "The Invisible Killer" I forgot that was a joke
Posted by: ace at September 01, 2015 03:44 PM (dciA+)
She wanted to be the grieving widow.
Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at September 01, 2015 03:44 PM (/SIwB)
Posted by: Hugh Hewitt at September 01, 2015 03:44 PM (hHFOx)
Posted by: NotCoach at September 01, 2015 03:42 PM (rsudF)
If I had a daughter...
Posted by: Hannibal Lechter at September 01, 2015 03:44 PM (2Ojst)
Posted by: The Devoceleraptor at September 01, 2015 03:44 PM (o+SC1)
Posted by: Van Halen at September 01, 2015 03:44 PM (3FBAK)
Posted by: Van Helsing at September 01, 2015 03:45 PM (UsgHM)
____________________________________________________
CO, you .
Posted by: NotCoach at September 01, 2015 03:45 PM (rsudF)
Posted by: Daniel Simpson Day at September 01, 2015 03:45 PM (aA2hG)
Posted by: Boss Moss at September 01, 2015 03:45 PM (DsveK)
If you're felling depressed don't let your crazy girl friend.boyfriend/mother/father/ sister/ other convince you to take your life
Call 800-273-TALK (8255)
and yes she deserves some kind of punishment, not just a slap on the wrist and "I hope you will consider what you did."
Posted by: FenelonSpoke at September 01, 2015 03:45 PM (OSs/l)
that's a guess I had, like she's like a child killing an ant, to see what it's like to kill an ant, except this is a whole human being. More interesting for her.
Posted by: ace at September 01, 2015 03:46 PM (dciA+)
Are they Fuckin kidding me? "denying Medicaid patients the right to choose their health care providers." With the narrow networks on Fredcare that DENY yu right to pick your own Doc? And anyone swallows that ! Fuckin A!
Posted by: Nevergiveup at September 01, 2015 03:46 PM (DUoqb)
Posted by: Kodos the Executioner at September 01, 2015 03:46 PM (hvG3q)
Posted by: Idiocracy was a documentary at September 01, 2015 03:46 PM (FdTDf)
And given that women in general face lower penalties than men for that same crime, she'll probably walk or get probation.
With all that sort of evidence of encouragement, I don't see how she walks away. If it's all true of course.
Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That at September 01, 2015 03:46 PM (x3GpS)
Posted by: Methos believes in free will(ow) at September 01, 2015 03:46 PM (ZbV+0)
She told him to get back inside.
It's just so strange and ugly.
Strange and ugly ... but it certainly should not be illegal - not by a mile. It was his action. Period.
Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at September 01, 2015 03:46 PM (zc3Db)
Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at September 01, 2015 03:47 PM (8ZskC)
although what this girl did was horrific.
But apparently both she and BF had spent time in mental health facilities, so...
Posted by: mynewhandle at September 01, 2015 03:47 PM (AkOaV)
Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - Fire-hooks and Rock Salt for sale at September 01, 2015 03:48 PM (kff5f)
Posted by: Nevergiveup at September 01, 2015 03:48 PM (DUoqb)
Posted by: Planned Parenthood at September 01, 2015 03:48 PM (5LOno)
So, the whole book judging by the cover thing is a pretty solid piece of advice isn't it?
One of life's little chocolates . . . never know what your gonna get until you bite it.
Posted by: simplemind at September 01, 2015 03:48 PM (5vV+V)
Back in the 80s my girlfriend threatened suicide once..."I'm gonna slash my wrists"...I told her to hang on I'd let her borrow my butterfly knife....
she never brought it up again, and here 25 some years later she's still alive with kids.
"Do it, or live" is a valid response.
Posted by: sven10077-callsign Charon at September 01, 2015 03:48 PM (BXOyX)
SEE? GLOBAL WARMENING KILLS!!!!
Posted by: Algore at September 01, 2015 03:48 PM (8ZskC)
Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at September 01, 2015 03:47 PM (8ZskC)"
_______________________________________________
Sounds like someone coerced you into self-rape.
Posted by: NotCoach at September 01, 2015 03:48 PM (rsudF)
She told him to get back inside.
Shit.
I'm generally skeptical of blaming people for other people's suicides (like bullying type situations for instance), but this seems pretty damn bad. Not sure about the legalities of it but if there is a law and they want to prosecute her go for it. Because damn.
Posted by: Lea at September 01, 2015 03:48 PM (lIU4e)
-----------------------------
The old ace that allowed people to behave like assh*les wouldn't have got it wrong.
Posted by: Ronald Raven at September 01, 2015 03:48 PM (hHFOx)
I'll just add my "what the hell is wrong with you?" shaming to her. She definitely has some psycho complex, but no wonder there are some people like this considering our current culture.
Posted by: Guy Mohawk at September 01, 2015 03:48 PM (ODxAs)
Um, no. She was seeking to profit from his death and did not reveal her role in convincing him to die.
Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at September 01, 2015 03:49 PM (/SIwB)
Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at September 01, 2015 03:46 PM (zc3Db)
So Charlie Manson was innocent of wrongdoing all these years? Who knew?
Posted by: troyriser at September 01, 2015 03:49 PM (Bvf82)
Posted by: Sponge at September 01, 2015 03:49 PM (xttKs)
Posted by: SDN at September 01, 2015 03:49 PM (gB9nl)
Posted by: Lauren at September 01, 2015 03:49 PM (LzzEz)
Posted by: Nevergiveup at September 01, 2015 03:49 PM (DUoqb)
She told him to get back inside.
Shit.
I'm generally skeptical of blaming people for other people's
suicides (like bullying type situations for instance), but this seems
pretty damn bad. Not sure about the legalities of it but if there is a
law and they want to prosecute her go for it. Because damn.
Posted by: LeaAgree, and for the same reason. That's fvcked up.
Posted by: Moderate Salami, weeping for our dead Republic at September 01, 2015 03:49 PM (/Ho8c)
Posted by: Jay Z at September 01, 2015 03:49 PM (3FBAK)
At first I thought it was a case where someone was always talking about suicide and the other person got tired of hearing about it and just said fine, do it already.
Posted by: Bruce With a Wang! at September 01, 2015 03:49 PM (iQIUe)
Watch out boy she'll chew you up
(Oh-oh, here she comes) She's a maneater
(Oh-oh, here she comes) Watch out boy she'll chew you up
(Oh-oh, here she comes) She's a maneater
I wouldn't if I were you
I know what she can do
She's deadly man, she could really rip your world apart
Mind over matter
Ooh, the beauty is there but a beast is in the heart
Watch out boy she'll chew you up
(Oh-oh, here she comes) She's a maneater
(Oh-oh, here she comes) Watch out boy she'll chew you up
(Oh-oh, here she comes) She's a maneater
Posted by: Tom Servo at September 01, 2015 03:50 PM (Kpl3J)
Posted by: Weasel at September 01, 2015 03:50 PM (e3bId)
Posted by: Nevergiveup at September 01, 2015 03:50 PM (DUoqb)
Let nature take its course...
I support getting out of society's way as much as possible...
if he thought being with her Charon whispering tail was groovy let the bodies hit the floor...
Posted by: sven10077-callsign Charon at September 01, 2015 03:50 PM (BXOyX)
Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at September 01, 2015 03:50 PM (8ZskC)
Posted by: Kinley Ardal at September 01, 2015 03:50 PM (6JL3d)
Posted by: Guy Mohawk at September 01, 2015 03:51 PM (ODxAs)
Com'on
I suppose it happens sometimes, but regularly no.
I knew a woman suffering from depression who said she was the floor crying (This happened long before anti depressants were readily available or used) and her husband said, "I hope you die there" so evil people come in both sexes, It was not a surprise to me that almost nobody came to his funeral.
Posted by: FenelonSpoke at September 01, 2015 03:51 PM (OSs/l)
She didn't kill this guy. She just strongly encouraged him to do what he said he wanted to do.
She encouraged him to murder himself. If the dead victim was not the same one as the killer, that would trigger some law on the books, right?
Posted by: ConservativeMonster at September 01, 2015 03:51 PM (0NdlF)
Posted by: The Jackhole at September 01, 2015 03:51 PM (vpE+b)
Well I've been told to get back inside also...oh not that way..Never mind
Posted by: Nevergiveup at September 01, 2015 03:51 PM (DUoqb)
Posted by: Weasel at September 01, 2015 03:51 PM (e3bId)
Posted by: sven10077-callsign Charon at September 01, 2015 03:48 PM (BXOyX)
Nowadays, you would find yourself standing trial for "attempted encouragement of suicide" and your conviction would get an enhancement for suggesting an illegal butterfly knife, which Homeleand Security now defines as a WMD.
Consider yourself lucky that you were born that long ago
Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at September 01, 2015 03:51 PM (zc3Db)
CO2 will kill in enclosed places. Displaces oxygen.
But yes, exhaust fumes = CO. Carbon MONOXIDE.
Posted by: rickb223 at September 01, 2015 03:51 PM (O+0DS)
Some people are just evil, and in a free country, sometimes an evil one is going to slip away.
Posted by: Chupacabras at September 01, 2015 03:52 PM (V40IZ)
Posted by: sven10077-callsign Charon at September 01, 2015 03:52 PM (BXOyX)
Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at September 01, 2015 03:52 PM (/SIwB)
Obviously this guy wasn't all there. Depression plus who-knows-what obviously did a number on him.
She may not (technically) be guilty of a (technical) crime (technically), but what are the chances his family sues her into oblivion for wrongful death? Would there be a case for her influencing their "diminished capacity" son?
Because that's one evil witch.
Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - Fire-hooks and Rock Salt for sale at September 01, 2015 03:52 PM (kff5f)
Posted by: Bruce With a Wang! at September 01, 2015 03:52 PM (iQIUe)
I suspect she make take her own life someday.
Posted by: Guy Mohawk at September 01, 2015 03:51 PM (ODxAs)
Not before taking - or trying to take - other peoples' lives first.
Posted by: Insomniac at September 01, 2015 03:52 PM (2Ojst)
Posted by: Nena at September 01, 2015 03:52 PM (OD2ni)
Posted by: Lea at September 01, 2015 03:53 PM (lIU4e)
You are under arrest for spreading rumors and provoking quarrels.
Posted by: The Chinese Government at September 01, 2015 03:53 PM (dciA+)
Posted by: Trainer at September 01, 2015 03:53 PM (n4ArD)
Posted by: simplemind at September 01, 2015 03:48 PM (5vV+V)
In this case, arsenic.
Posted by: Mikey NTH - Stay Aghast of Events at the Outrage Outlet! at September 01, 2015 03:53 PM (hLRSq)
Posted by: C3PO at September 01, 2015 03:53 PM (OGm46)
Posted by: Weasel at September 01, 2015 03:50 PM (e3bId)
Carbon trioxide (CO3) is an unstable oxide of carbon (an oxocarbon).
Posted by: Sponge at September 01, 2015 03:53 PM (xttKs)
Not if I called myself "Doctor" or pretended she was pre-natal...
but yeah I am amazed how retarded a land we've become in just 2 and a half decades.
Posted by: sven10077-callsign Charon at September 01, 2015 03:53 PM (BXOyX)
Posted by: mallfly at September 01, 2015 03:53 PM (qSIlh)
BTW - any pics of her ass?
Posted by: I. Dindoo Nuffin at September 01, 2015 03:53 PM (5fSr7)
Posted by: FarmerBob at September 01, 2015 03:53 PM (sqpGi)
Posted by: Tammy at September 01, 2015 03:53 PM (in4mh)
Posted by: Live Free at September 01, 2015 03:53 PM (hx6+b)
Posted by: I. Dindoo Nuffin at September 01, 2015 03:53 PM (5fSr7)
I was thinking the same thing
Posted by: Nevergiveup at September 01, 2015 03:54 PM (DUoqb)
Posted by: ThunderB at September 01, 2015 03:54 PM (zOTsN)
Posted by: Rodney Dangerfield at September 01, 2015 03:54 PM (OD2ni)
Posted by: mallfly at September 01, 2015 03:54 PM (qSIlh)
Posted by: Ghost of Lee Atwater at September 01, 2015 03:54 PM (JxMoP)
Posted by: Tammy at September 01, 2015 03:53 PM (in4mh)
If she convinced Conrad to kill someone else, would she be liable for murder charges?
Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at September 01, 2015 03:54 PM (/SIwB)
Posted by: Insomniac at September 01, 2015 03:54 PM (2Ojst)
Posted by: Boss Moss at September 01, 2015 03:55 PM (DsveK)
Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at September 01, 2015 03:55 PM (8ZskC)
Posted by: Nip Sip at September 01, 2015 03:55 PM (0FSuD)
Posted by: Weasel at September 01, 2015 03:55 PM (e3bId)
Posted by: ConservativeMonster at September 01, 2015 03:51 PM (0NdlF)
That's a real stretch. You can break your own things but you are not allowed to break someone else's. To call a suicide a "murderer' is ... something else, really. That gets into the same territory where anti-gun nuts classify gun suicides as "gun violence".
Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at September 01, 2015 03:55 PM (zc3Db)
Posted by: Countrysquire, feeling reasonably fresh down there at September 01, 2015 03:55 PM (eEBON)
The article says a judge is considering whether she will be charged with a crime.
Posted by: Idiocracy was a documentary at September 01, 2015 03:55 PM (FdTDf)
Posted by: Bruce With a Wang! at September 01, 2015 03:56 PM (iQIUe)
Posted by: Nip Sip at September 01, 2015 03:56 PM (0FSuD)
Posted by: rickb223 at September 01, 2015 03:56 PM (O+0DS)
Posted by: wrg500 at September 01, 2015 03:56 PM (sgrzZ)
I was just thinking she looked like Wednesday Adams.
Posted by: FenelonSpoke at September 01, 2015 03:56 PM (OSs/l)
Posted by: Ronald Raven at September 01, 2015 03:56 PM (hHFOx)
Posted by: Max Power at September 01, 2015 03:56 PM (q177U)
Posted by: sven10077-callsign Charon at September 01, 2015 03:57 PM (BXOyX)
Posted by: Bruce With a Wang! at September 01, 2015 03:57 PM (iQIUe)
sort of a slippery slop if you start holding other people responsible for someone's suicide
Posted by: Coolio at September 01, 2015 03:57 PM (80fTb)
I think suicide is legally considered murder.
Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at September 01, 2015 03:57 PM (/SIwB)
Posted by: MJ at September 01, 2015 03:57 PM (2gYQK)
Posted by: Humador at September 01, 2015 03:57 PM (wtvvX)
Yeah, so another old saying that is a good deal less accurate than the not judging of the book by its cover,
girls are made of sugar and spice and everything nice
This girl not so much.
Posted by: simplemind at September 01, 2015 03:57 PM (5vV+V)
Perhaps you would feel more comfortable in the truck.
Posted by: JackStraw at September 01, 2015 03:57 PM (OGm46)
Posted by: House Harkonnen at September 01, 2015 03:58 PM (DyHko)
The newly released correspondence shines a light on Obama administration moves to isolate pro-Israel forces and boost efforts by a large network of left-leaning anti-Israel organizations.
JINOs, the whole lot of them and assholes also
Posted by: Nevergiveup at September 01, 2015 03:58 PM (DUoqb)
I was thinking the same thing
Posted by: Nevergiveup at September 01, 2015 03:54 PM (DUoqb)
Along with EVERY OTHER MALE in this blog.
ADMIT IT, you bastards.
Posted by: Sponge at September 01, 2015 03:58 PM (xttKs)
"Quit whining and threatening to kill yourself. Be a man, and do it!"
Posted by: I. Dindoo Nuffin at September 01, 2015 03:58 PM (5fSr7)
The news is that Fiorina is next at 8, biting Jebbie right in the ass. This is getting interesting.
Posted by: MTF at September 01, 2015 03:58 PM (TxJGV)
Posted by: Hillary Clinton at September 01, 2015 03:58 PM (oKE6c)
I KNEW I should have ordered a crew cab...
Posted by: sven10077-callsign Charon at September 01, 2015 03:58 PM (BXOyX)
Posted by: mallfly at September 01, 2015 03:58 PM (qSIlh)
Because that's one evil witch.
Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - Fire-hooks and Rock Salt for sale at September 01, 2015 03:52 PM (kff5f)
************
Doubt she's all that collectible. The lawyers will likely go after K-Mart, the hose manufacturer, the tape company, the cell phone company and the truck manufacturer.
Posted by: Bob's House of Flannel Shirts and Wallet Chains at September 01, 2015 03:58 PM (vgIRn)
Suicide is not murder of the self.
Would it be equally tragic if someone commits suicide in order to escape great pain and suffering?
Is the cancer patient a murderer if they take all of their pain pills at once to end what they are going through?
Is the Yazidi girl who is fighting ISIS a murderer if she keeps one bullet for herself to avoid capture?
While that Carter chick is one cold and evil bitch, I would not classify the young Roy as a murderer because he couldn't hack it anymore.
Posted by: Azenogoth (Freedom or Fire) at September 01, 2015 03:59 PM (4nmNX)
Posted by: Max Power at September 01, 2015 03:59 PM (q177U)
Posted by: simplemind at September 01, 2015 03:59 PM (5vV+V)
Years ago and as reported on AoSHQ, werent kids hooking up on the internet in order to park their cars on a railroad track and get killed which they succeeded at? Remember? I think it happened in Queens or some such god forsaken place.
Posted by: Bruce With a Wang! at September 01, 2015 03:59 PM (iQIUe)
Posted by: sadeyesteve at September 01, 2015 03:59 PM (lPdaT)
Posted by: andycanuck at September 01, 2015 03:59 PM (pgzyN)
Posted by: Nevergiveup at September 01, 2015 04:00 PM (DUoqb)
Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That at September 01, 2015 04:00 PM (x3GpS)
Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at September 01, 2015 04:00 PM (OLNwX)
"That's a real stretch. You can break your own things but you are not allowed to break someone else's. To call a suicide a "murderer' is ... something else, really. That gets into the same territory where anti-gun nuts classify gun suicides as "gun violence"."
Yeah. I see this the same as poeple that yell "jump" to a person threatening to jump off a building. Total piece of crap, but not criminally lieable. Now, the parents may wish to consult as lawyer to see if ther are any creative tort theories for civil liability.
Posted by: Benji Carver at September 01, 2015 04:00 PM (OD2ni)
Massive liens. Make her work it off for the rest of her life. A check of $X every month. For 100 years.
Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - Fire-hooks and Rock Salt for sale at September 01, 2015 04:00 PM (kff5f)
Depression can be a terribly well hidden thing.
Posted by: Guy Mohawk at September 01, 2015 04:00 PM (ODxAs)
Could you convict Charles Manson?
He never killed anyone.
Posted by: rickb223 at September 01, 2015 04:00 PM (O+0DS)
18 >>It's just so strange and ugly.
In the Law and Order SVU episode, she'll be the plucky activist.
Posted by: HR braucht ein Bier at September 01, 2015 03:38 PM (/kI1Q)
They already did this episode. With the deaf actress being the pro suicide activist.
Posted by: Buzzion at September 01, 2015 04:00 PM (z/Ubi)
and again...
as a founding member of the Darwin Party I say let nature take its course...
if those kids are happier being Railroad Helper then who am I to quibble?
Posted by: sven10077-callsign Charon at September 01, 2015 04:00 PM (BXOyX)
To that village in India.
Where they gang rape women as punishment.
She can take the place of the two innocent Indian girls.
Posted by: Adirondack Patriot at September 01, 2015 04:00 PM (4AVeu)
Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at September 01, 2015 03:55 PM (zc3Db)
Only if you start with the assumption there is no God, and that your life is your own.
But who gave you your life? Not yourself. Not your mom, either.
Posted by: ConservativeMonster at September 01, 2015 04:01 PM (0NdlF)
Posted by: Moderate Salami, weeping for our dead Republic at September 01, 2015 04:01 PM (/Ho8c)
You're spending too much time watching TV. That's a Law and Order episode.
Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That at September 01, 2015 04:01 PM (x3GpS)
First of all, we need to know what kind of crazy, hot piece of ass we're talking about.
Leave it to Teh Ewok to hone in on the most important part of the story......
Posted by: IllTemperedCur at September 01, 2015 04:01 PM (TuXs5)
Posted by: mallfly at September 01, 2015 04:01 PM (qSIlh)
Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at September 01, 2015 03:57 PM (/SIwB)
Could be. I wouldn't be surprised. But that is really a sort of insane notion, don't you think?
If I spit on myself can I be held liable for assault?
I mean ... you can see how silly this all gets pretty quickly.
Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at September 01, 2015 04:01 PM (zc3Db)
Posted by: Bruce With a Wang! at September 01, 2015 04:01 PM (iQIUe)
Posted by: The Great _______ Snark at September 01, 2015 04:01 PM (NDwE8)
Posted by: MikeTheMoose at September 01, 2015 04:01 PM (0q2P7)
Posted by: Caitlyn Jenner at September 01, 2015 04:01 PM (E5UB0)
They already did this episode. With the deaf actress being the pro suicide activist.
Posted by: Buzzion at September 01, 2015 04:00 PM (z/Ubi)
Whaaa? Id was gweaaaat epishoode!
Posted by: Marlee Matlin at September 01, 2015 04:01 PM (2Ojst)
"OK who thinks she gives a good BJ?"
Not me.Why would you kill yourself if you had a GF that gavegood ones? Talkabout incentive to live.
Posted by: Benji Carver at September 01, 2015 04:02 PM (OD2ni)
Posted by: Anna Puma at September 01, 2015 04:02 PM (zSvKA)
No, it was a higher authority. Divorce court.
Posted by: JackStraw at September 01, 2015 04:02 PM (OGm46)
Posted by: DaveA at September 01, 2015 04:02 PM (DL2i+)
Posted by: Blanco Basura at September 01, 2015 04:02 PM (4WhSY)
I'm not kidding about this. There's a very bizarre subset of what can only be called serial killers who work in the medical field and who believe, from the bottom of their hearts, that they are helping people and sending them to a better place.
This trips all those alarms for me.
Posted by: alexthechick - Yeah I give up at September 01, 2015 04:03 PM (mf5HN)
Dad warned me not to stick Little Sven into crazy...
for the most part I've complied although in her case there *is* something Dante-esque in quite literally poking her in her sin pool...(in this case her beguiling mouth)
Posted by: sven10077-callsign Charon at September 01, 2015 04:03 PM (BXOyX)
Posted by: Nevergiveup
There's a bad one? Granted some are better than others but bad?
Posted by: wrg500 at September 01, 2015 04:03 PM (sgrzZ)
Huh. Still f'd up.
If not jail, mental hospital for sure. For a long, long time.
Posted by: Lea at September 01, 2015 04:03 PM (lIU4e)
Posted by: Boss Moss at September 01, 2015 04:03 PM (DsveK)
You're spending too much time watching TV. That's a Law and Order episode.
Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That at September 01, 2015 04:01 PM (x3GpS)
==============
I got rid of my tv over 10 years ago. No, it was a news story and it was discussed here.
Posted by: Bruce With a Wang! at September 01, 2015 04:03 PM (iQIUe)
OT
Clinton Campaign caught on camera accepting a foreign donation
from Project Veritas?
and the NYT is reporting it?
oh yes, Obama is getting rid of her
Posted by: ThunderB at September 01, 2015 04:03 PM (zOTsN)
Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair
*bigeyes*
I guess I've sexually assaulted myself lots of times, then.
Posted by: Moderate Salami, weeping for our dead Republic at September 01, 2015 04:03 PM (/Ho8c)
Posted by: Countrysquire, feeling reasonably fresh down there at September 01, 2015 04:03 PM (eEBON)
Posted by: Bruce With a Wang! at September 01, 2015 04:01 PM (iQIUe
Take Katie COuric with you when you go Yahoo nuts.
Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at September 01, 2015 04:03 PM (OLNwX)
Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at September 01, 2015 04:04 PM (8ZskC)
Could be. I wouldn't be surprised. But that is really a sort of insane notion, don't you think?
If I spit on myself can I be held liable for assault?
I mean ... you can see how silly this all gets pretty quickly.
Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at September 01, 2015 04:01 PM (zc3Db)
So maybe there's something to the feminazi idea that all men are rapists.....
Posted by: IllTemperedCur at September 01, 2015 04:04 PM (TuXs5)
She took advantage of a person not in his right mind, manipulated his influence, which led to his destruction. Can't she be culpable for that?
Posted by: Lisl at September 01, 2015 04:04 PM (LzjBu)
---
It's quite "alpha" to pick on the appearance of a mentally ill teenager, then?
Posted by: Jenny Is Very Impressed at September 01, 2015 04:04 PM (A2jNh)
Posted by: Nevergiveup
There's a bad one? Granted some are better than others but bad?
The worst is better than none at all.
Posted by: rickb223 at September 01, 2015 04:04 PM (O+0DS)
Posted by: Anna Puma at September 01, 2015 04:04 PM (zSvKA)
She's the friggin' Rhonda Rousey of spouse bitchin'. A real life child prodigy. Einstein and Beethoven rolled into one.
Posted by: Irony at September 01, 2015 04:04 PM (3FBAK)
Posted by: Neil Sedaka at September 01, 2015 04:04 PM (wAQA5)
Posted by: jewells45 at September 01, 2015 04:05 PM (l/N7H)
I apologize.
Holy crapster Batman!
Life imitating art. (and bad TV.)
Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That at September 01, 2015 04:05 PM (x3GpS)
Posted by: Benji Carver at September 01, 2015 04:05 PM (OD2ni)
Posted by: Nevergiveup
There's a bad one? Granted some are better than others but bad?
Posted by: wrg500 at September 01, 2015 04:03 PM (sg
Braces.....so i've been told.
Joe Peppitone enjoyed his partner without teeth or so I read some where.
Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at September 01, 2015 04:05 PM (OLNwX)
http://preview.tinyurl.com/o3p4x8h
Posted by: The Political Hat at September 01, 2015 04:05 PM (0TXlm)
Posted by: Angel of Death at September 01, 2015 04:05 PM (VAsIq)
It's probably Beta to look at the self-selected Omega males and laugh...
Alphas are too busy with the chicks.
Posted by: sven10077-callsign Charon at September 01, 2015 04:05 PM (BXOyX)
Posted by: dartist at September 01, 2015 04:06 PM (ahBY0)
Posted by: Michelle Carter at September 01, 2015 04:06 PM (8ZskC)
Posted by: Chupacabras at September 01, 2015 04:06 PM (V40IZ)
Posted by: Anna Puma at September 01, 2015 04:04 PM (zSvKA)
======
He was prosecuted but the punishment wasnt that harsh but it never is in euroweenieland.
Posted by: Bruce With a Wang! at September 01, 2015 04:06 PM (iQIUe)
Posted by: ThunderB at September 01, 2015 04:06 PM (zOTsN)
Posted by: Blanco Basura at September 01, 2015 04:06 PM (4WhSY)
Posted by: Grump928(c) at September 01, 2015 04:07 PM (evdj2)
Posted by: Nevergiveup
There's a bad one? Granted some are better than others but bad?
Posted by: wrg500 at September 01, 2015 04:03 PM (sgrzZ)
OK good point.
Posted by: Nevergiveup at September 01, 2015 04:07 PM (DUoqb)
I'm guess psychic powers.
She's got that weird, high,vertically dented forehead -
like the Butt-Head Aliens what got Captain Pike in StarTrek.
Beware the Butt-head Psychics!
Beware!
Posted by: naturalfake at September 01, 2015 04:07 PM (0cMkb)
Posted by: @PeeteySDee at September 01, 2015 04:07 PM (GSpCg)
She is a quiet, kind, and sympathetic young girl. She tried immensely to help Mr. Roy in his battle with depression
Yep, sounds like she helped him right off the cliff.
Posted by: FenelonSpoke at September 01, 2015 04:07 PM (OSs/l)
Posted by: Anna Puma at September 01, 2015 04:07 PM (zSvKA)
Posted by: Grump928(c) at September 01, 2015 04:07 PM (evdj2)
If I spit on myself can I be held liable for assault?
I mean ... you can see how silly this all gets pretty quickly.
Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at September 01, 2015 04:01 PM (zc3Db)
Well, if you beat yourself up and tell the police a gang did it, you do get in trouble when they figure out you were lying about it.
This girl wasn't announcing she convinced the guy to kill himself. She was doing the exact opposite, in fact: claiming she tried to save him.
Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at September 01, 2015 04:07 PM (/SIwB)
Yes. Your life isn't worth less just because it's mixed with pain and suffering.
Is the cancer patient a murderer if they take all of their pain pills at once to end what they are going through?
Depends on what you define as murder. Is it immoral killing of a human being, or immoral killing of any human being except yourself?
Is the Yazidi girl who is fighting ISIS a murderer if she keeps one bullet for herself to avoid capture?
That could be thrown into the category of war casualty to avoid a fate worse than death. Though suicide isn't going to win any wars.
While that Carter chick is one cold and evil bitch, I would not classify the young Roy as a murderer because he couldn't hack it anymore.
Posted by: Azenogoth (Freedom or Fire) at September 01, 2015 03:59 PM (4nmNX)
It depends entirely on if you think that Man has a Right to Suicide. I do not think so.
Posted by: ConservativeMonster at September 01, 2015 04:08 PM (0NdlF)
But encouraging a girl to get an abortion is good?
Me confused?
Posted by: Nevergiveup at September 01, 2015 04:08 PM (DUoqb)
from Project Veritas?"
It was a fucking t-shirt sale to a Canadian. The Clinton Foundation accepted millions of dollars illegally as Secretary of State.
She ain't losing or going to jail because of a t-shirt sale.
Posted by: Adirondack Patriot at September 01, 2015 04:08 PM (4AVeu)
Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That at September 01, 2015 04:08 PM (x3GpS)
There was a hilarious episode of The IT Crowd where Roy and Moss went to the apartment of a guy who advertised for someone he could kill and eat, thinking they were just going to watch movies on his flat screen TV.
Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at September 01, 2015 04:08 PM (8ZskC)
Posted by: ThunderB at September 01, 2015 04:08 PM (zOTsN)
Posted by: Nevergiveup
There's a bad one? Granted some are better than others but bad?
The worst is better than none at all.
Posted by: rickb223 at September 01, 2015 04:04 PM (O+0DS)
Your words, Big Boy.
Come on.
Posted by: Lena Dunham at September 01, 2015 04:09 PM (0cMkb)
Posted by: Nevergiveup
Would he have committed suicide if she did?
Posted by: ConservativeMonster at September 01, 2015 04:09 PM (0NdlF)
Posted by: Bruce With a Wang! at September 01, 2015 04:09 PM (iQIUe)
Actually this story has already been made into a movie. She is a female Hannibal Lector.Lector was a psychiatrist that encouraged serial killers rather than treat them. (He also had dietary habits that deviated significantly from the "norm"but I digress.)
She was looking for a career entrée into a ready supply of future victims.
Posted by: simplemind at September 01, 2015 04:09 PM (5vV+V)
Posted by: Butthead at September 01, 2015 04:09 PM (5LOno)
Posted by: Chet Simms at September 01, 2015 04:09 PM (/BYqW)
Posted by: Pappy O'Daniel at September 01, 2015 04:09 PM (oVJmc)
Posted by: Adirondack Patriot at September 01, 2015 04:10 PM (4AVeu)
Posted by: Boss Moss at September 01, 2015 04:10 PM (DsveK)
If I spit on myself can I be held liable for assault?
I mean ... you can see how silly this all gets pretty quickly.
Not really. Most of metaphysics throughout the history of the West has acknowledge your right to act as your own agent to include potential and intentional *harm* to yourself as a licit use of that agency, however it places outright killing yourself as an illicit use of that agency. A fundamental difference in kind between harming someone's body and killing them. Assault 1st Degree isn't Murder in the 5th Degree or something like that.
Posted by: MikeTheMoose at September 01, 2015 04:11 PM (0q2P7)
Welcome to the post-Obama disaster world.
http://bit.ly/1PJOFvQ
Posted by: MTF at September 01, 2015 04:11 PM (TxJGV)
Posted by: Dr. Mabuse at September 01, 2015 04:11 PM (VBbCO)
Could you convict Charles Manson?
He never killed anyone.
Posted by: rickb223
If Charles Manson only convinced people to kill themselves and had no part in the actual act, then no. A plot and conspiracy to kill others is much different.
There's all sorts of websites and Euthansia type groups that tell people the best way to commit suicide. Do I think those people should be brought up manslaughter charges? No, I don't.
It's very a slippery slope because I could see all sorts of ridiculous things like a Evangelical Pastor getting brought up on ridiculous charges if say a homosexual member killed themselves.
Ultimately, a person has the responsibility for their actions and what sort of influences they bring into their life.
Posted by: Coolio at September 01, 2015 04:11 PM (80fTb)
Posted by: Bigby's Noogie at September 01, 2015 04:11 PM (3ZtZW)
Posted by: RWC - Team BOHICA at September 01, 2015 04:11 PM (fWAjv)
maybe she told him not to tell his parents
I sure they had been on suicide watch with him
maybe they even thought this relationship was a positive sign
the whole thing is sickening
Posted by: ThunderB at September 01, 2015 04:12 PM (zOTsN)
Posted by: Irony at September 01, 2015 04:12 PM (3FBAK)
Most of us older folks don't know it, but there is an entire sub culture of youth today that is all about suicide.
They will discuss it... and even help enable it...
(both information and material).
The Police know about it, but are powerless under current law to do anything about it... because suicide is the only act which is a crime ONLY if you fail.
Posted by: BB Wolf at September 01, 2015 04:12 PM (qh617)
Posted by: Guy Mohawk at September 01, 2015 04:12 PM (ODxAs)
Posted by: RWC - Team BOHICA at September 01, 2015 04:11 PM (fWAjv)
Link? Where did yu heat that
Posted by: Nevergiveup at September 01, 2015 04:12 PM (DUoqb)
Posted by: Joe Biden at September 01, 2015 04:12 PM (VAsIq)
50/50 on last words: "But first..." OR "That thing I did in yr mouth?..."
Posted by: Bigby's Noogie at September 01, 2015 04:13 PM (3ZtZW)
/facepalm
Posted by: ConservativeMonster at September 01, 2015 04:13 PM (0NdlF)
Posted by: Nevergiveup at September 01, 2015 04:12 PM (DUoqb)
CNN via twitter
Posted by: RWC - Team BOHICA at September 01, 2015 04:13 PM (fWAjv)
Irony you are hardcore...
I'd hammer a light socket first.
Posted by: sven10077-callsign Charon at September 01, 2015 04:13 PM (BXOyX)
I think the slippery slope is in the other direction, honestly.
Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at September 01, 2015 04:13 PM (/SIwB)
Posted by: Pappy O'Daniel at September 01, 2015 04:13 PM (oVJmc)
Posted by: Dianna at September 01, 2015 04:13 PM (DV/Ik)
Posted by: Turd Ferguson at September 01, 2015 04:13 PM (VAsIq)
Posted by: bob in houston at September 01, 2015 04:13 PM (XRxxn)
Posted by: ConservativeMonster at September 01, 2015 04:09 PM (0NdlF)
this story has been all over the media in new england -- it hasnt really been made clear (at least from what I've caught on the local news) if the two of them were actually, well, dating.
It sounded more like an "online" type relationship, but I'm not sure.
Posted by: mynewhandle at September 01, 2015 04:13 PM (AkOaV)
Posted by: Soona at September 01, 2015 04:13 PM (P25Hh)
Posted by: RWC - Team BOHICA at September 01, 2015 04:14 PM (fWAjv)
BANNED!
//Ed "Poppin' Fresh" Morrisey
Posted by: sven10077-callsign Charon at September 01, 2015 04:14 PM (BXOyX)
Posted by: Notsothoreau at September 01, 2015 04:14 PM (Lqy/e)
This young woman not only repeatedly urged him to take his life. She told him to get back in the truck and complete the suicide.
Posted by: FenelonSpoke at September 01, 2015 04:14 PM (OSs/l)
ridiculous things like a Evangelical Pastor getting brought up on
ridiculous charges if say a homosexual member killed themselves.
Is the pastor TELLING him to kill himself?
Posted by: Pappy O'Daniel at September 01, 2015 04:14 PM (oVJmc)
Posted by: RWC - Team BOHICA at September 01, 2015 04:14 PM (fWAjv)
In the old days a cop killer would have been taken care of the old fashion way
Posted by: Nevergiveup at September 01, 2015 04:15 PM (DUoqb)
Posted by: artisanal 'ette at September 01, 2015 04:15 PM (qCMvj)
Remember when obama rec'd all those foreign donations via internet. Not a peep out of the NYT or the FEC.
Posted by: Guy Mohawk at September 01, 2015 04:15 PM (ODxAs)
Posted by: ThunderB at September 01, 2015 04:12 PM (zOTsN)
That part is for sure.
Whether or not legally culpable (I don't think she is), she certainly is morally at least partially responsible for his suicide, and I hope she has to live with that guilt for the rest of her life.
Posted by: mynewhandle at September 01, 2015 04:15 PM (AkOaV)
As I grew/grow older, the humor is lost on me.
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc at September 01, 2015 04:15 PM (9mTYi)
Posted by: Emily Litella at September 01, 2015 04:15 PM (4AVeu)
This young woman not only repeatedly urged him to take his life. She told him to get back in the truck and complete the suicide.
And hid her involvement, and sought to gain from his death.
Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at September 01, 2015 04:15 PM (/SIwB)
and this is the hick version of "internet muscles"
she is a manipulative psycho
Posted by: ThunderB at September 01, 2015 04:15 PM (zOTsN)
Posted by: ThunderB at September 01, 2015 04:16 PM (zOTsN)
I wouldn't say "Western". In Judaism, doing any sort of harm to oneself has always been wrong. We aren't even allowed to permanently alter our bodies for "beautification".
A fundamental difference in kind between harming someone's body and killing them. Assault 1st Degree isn't Murder in the 5th Degree or something like that.
Posted by: MikeTheMoose at September 01, 2015 04:11 PM (0q2P7)
So, let me ask you, do you agree with anti-gun "statistics" that classify gun suicides as "gun murders"?
Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at September 01, 2015 04:16 PM (zc3Db)
Posted by: Count de Monet at September 01, 2015 04:16 PM (JO9+V)
Should she be shunned by the entire human race? Most definitely.
Posted by: V the K at September 01, 2015 04:16 PM (O7MnT)
Posted by: Nevergiveup at September 01, 2015 04:16 PM (DUoqb)
Posted by: Pappy O'Daniel at September 01, 2015 04:14 PM (oVJmc)
That's what Evangelical pastors do, dontcha know. Haven't you ever sat through a sermon about how all those gay people out there need to kill themselves?
Posted by: ConservativeMonster at September 01, 2015 04:16 PM (0NdlF)
Posted by: Turd Ferguson at September 01, 2015 04:16 PM (VAsIq)
In that, SC's believe you are the property of your creator, vs. the L/l view that you are your own property to treat as you see fit?
So, while both sides (I assume) agree that her actions are truly evil, that may or may not mean all evil actions should demand the full force of the state, depending on where you come down in that worldview?
Not that there aren't religious L/l's, just that IME they tend toward the individual property argument when talking law.
Posted by: Chupacabras at September 01, 2015 04:16 PM (V40IZ)
Posted by: The Great _______ Snark at September 01, 2015 04:16 PM (McaHl)
Posted by: FenelonSpoke at September 01, 2015 04:16 PM (OSs/l)
It's a very traditional expression. In German, the word for suicide is "Selbstmord" : self-murder. It would not have been thought at all odd to describe suicide as murder in a more Christian age.
Posted by: Dr. Mabuse at September 01, 2015 04:16 PM (VBbCO)
Involuntary manslaughter is too good for her. It was pre-meditated. It was not impulsive or she was mad at the guy, and in a fit of passion and anger told him to kill himself. Nope. It was a thrill for her. Evil comes in all shapes and forms and walks this earth. She is probably such a narcissist she is faking empathy while enjoying the attention (figuring she will get off a long sentence with age and sad face).
Suicide with the help of her. She may as well have pulled the trigger. I guess if he was hanging himself she would have tightened the knot. Just reading that she told him to et back in the car triggered my hope she is locked away for life to prevent this happening again or her breeding. Put her away in the worst of prisons. She deserves nothing less as this boy was someone's son and needed help, that she denied him.
Posted by: ChristyBlinky, aging supermodel Redneck Queen at September 01, 2015 04:16 PM (mOmt+)
Posted by: ThunderB at September 01, 2015 04:17 PM (zOTsN)
Has anyone checked to see if she planned on being a nurse?
I'm not kidding about this. There's a very bizarre subset of what can only be called serial killers who work in the medical field and who believe, from the bottom of their hearts, that they are helping people and sending them to a better place.
This trips all those alarms for me.
Posted by: alexthechick - Yeah I give up at September 01, 2015 04:03 PM (mf5HN)
Had a goofy "Critical Thinking" course in college where we read a first person account of exactly this situation. A long essay where the nurse was waxing poetic about releasing her patients from their pain, and how peaceful they looked afterwards.
The whole class of nitwits spent most of the hour talking about how great an idea was assisted suicide, death with dignity blah blah, while the instructor looked on passively. At least until Cur pointed out that what was described was in fact the account of a serial killer committing murder, because even if you believed in assisted suicide, it requires consent, not the pathological whims of the nurse.
The uncomfortable silence from the class (and the relieved look on the instructor's face) was epic.
Posted by: IllTemperedCur at September 01, 2015 04:17 PM (TuXs5)
Then again, if I did, I'd sure need that left nut I just gave up.
Posted by: Irony at September 01, 2015 04:18 PM (3FBAK)
The pure evil always do.
Posted by: artisanal 'ette
Sometimes they show up on my reality show!
Posted by: Bear Grylls at September 01, 2015 04:18 PM (VAsIq)
"It sounded more like an "online" type relationship, but I'm not sure. "
Don't knock it 'til you try it.
Posted by: Manti Te'o at September 01, 2015 04:18 PM (OD2ni)
she will have ZERO problem living with this
Posted by: ThunderB at September 01, 2015 04:17 PM (zOTsN)
Well, I don't know. I guess this one of those cases where "what the law says" and "what morality says" kind of diverge.
I'm uncomfortable with locking her up though.
I mean, like someone said upthread -- I've been in a situation where I had a drama queen girlfriend when I was younger who threatened to kill herself if I broke up with her and I made a glib comment about it.
Not my proudest moment, and I did not for a second think she'd actually kill herself, but I mean... should I have been legally culpable if she did kill herself?
I would have obviously felt horrible about it for the rest of my life so thank god she didn't kill herself, but legally responsible for an unstable persons actions?
Posted by: mynewhandle at September 01, 2015 04:19 PM (AkOaV)
Posted by: Bruce With a Wang! at September 01, 2015 04:19 PM (iQIUe)
"After his death, Carter became a selfproclaimed advocate for mental health.
She organized a fundraising tournament in Roy's memory and posted on Facebook and Twitter about her attempts to save her boyfriend's life.
"Even though I could not save my boyfriend's life, I want to put myself out here to try to save as many other lives as possible." she wrote on Facebook."
She's a monster.
Posted by: V the K at September 01, 2015 04:19 PM (O7MnT)
Posted by: Caitlyn Jenner at September 01, 2015 04:19 PM (E5UB0)
This young woman not only repeatedly urged him to take his life. She told him to get back in the truck and complete the suicide.
Posted by: FenelonSpoke
No, and that came out wrong , I meant that someone could make an absurd case that what he was telling the person created guilt or shame that led to suicide, etc.
I've seen cases where someone on Facebook says something nasty and the person goes on to commit suicide because they were bullied, etc.
I remember people like Ozzie Osbourne were getting charged because some crazy teen committed suicide.
I'm VERY skeptical of charging people for "influencing" someone else's behavior.
Posted by: Coolio at September 01, 2015 04:19 PM (80fTb)
Posted by: Ozzy at September 01, 2015 04:19 PM (V40IZ)
Posted by: Grump928(c) at September 01, 2015 04:20 PM (evdj2)
If suicide is illegal in that state, she is guilty of conspiracy to commit suicide.
Posted by: simplemind at September 01, 2015 04:20 PM (5vV+V)
Posted by: ConservativeMonster
Your church seems a little unusual, maybe?
Posted by: Moderate Salami, weeping for our dead Republic at September 01, 2015 04:20 PM (/Ho8c)
Not every evil thing is illegal, though. I'm really not sure if they can make this manslaughter or not. At the end of the day, it's words. We know words are powerful, can help or hurt. But they don't kill directly. He did it to himself. What does that mean, legally? I honestly don't know.
Posted by: Lea at September 01, 2015 04:20 PM (lIU4e)
Posted by: HR braucht ein Bier at September 01, 2015 04:20 PM (/kI1Q)
Posted by: ThunderB at September 01, 2015 04:20 PM (zOTsN)
Posted by: Boss Moss at September 01, 2015 04:21 PM (DsveK)
In my adult life, I've been to over a thousand church services across eight states and four countries and most every Christian denomination; I have never once heard this preached.
Posted by: V the K at September 01, 2015 04:21 PM (O7MnT)
Posted by: Nevergiveup at September 01, 2015 04:21 PM (DUoqb)
Posted by: Senor Yeb and the Mexican Crazy Train at September 01, 2015 04:21 PM (oDCMR)
Posted by: Count de Monet at September 01, 2015 04:21 PM (JO9+V)
I prefer to point out that murders and crime in general decrease where lawful gun ownership is introduced.
Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at September 01, 2015 04:21 PM (/SIwB)
Posted by: Vox at September 01, 2015 04:21 PM (hHFOx)
The payoff was the attention she received for her grief. She was soliciting it before he was dead. She chided others for taking credit for her Suicide Awareness event that followed.
Sign o' the times.
Posted by: CJ at September 01, 2015 04:22 PM (feOPk)
Posted by: Dr. Mabuse
--------------------------
The view being that we are creatures of God's creation, and do not have the right to self-murder.
Suicides could not be buried in consecrated ground, and in some cases had stakes driven through their hearts before burial.
--------------
"As we're told in Dickens literary tale, Quilp "was left to be buried with a stake through his heart in the centre of four lonely roads."
Lest we think such actions are limited only to the British Isles, fiction or literature, it is recorded in the records of Westmoreland County, Virginia, how on August 25th, 1661, "a man servant of Mr. William Frekes who was Drowned in the Creek neare to his master's plantacon {plantation}...hath wilfully cast himself away..." Thus according to local custom, he was "to be buried at the next cross path as the Law Requires with a stake driven through the middle of him in his grave, hee having wilfully Cast himself away."
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc at September 01, 2015 04:22 PM (9mTYi)
She seems more like a taker than a giver.
Posted by: Guy Mohawk at September 01, 2015 04:23 PM (ODxAs)
"After his death, Carter became a selfproclaimed advocate for mental health.
She organized a fundraising tournament in Roy's memory and posted on Facebook and Twitter about her attempts to save her boyfriend's life.
"Even though I could not save my boyfriend's life, I want to put myself out here to try to save as many other lives as possible." she wrote on Facebook."
She's a monster.
Posted by: V the K at September 01, 2015 04:19 PM (O7MnT)
schizo monster
or, playing one on tv
Posted by: artisanal 'ette at September 01, 2015 04:23 PM (qCMvj)
Not my proudest moment, and I did not for a second think she'd actually kill herself, but I mean... should I have been legally culpable if she did kill herself?
mynewhandle, this is the exact kind of situation that makes me leery of this.
There was a boy in my high school who had his girlfriend break up with him. He went to her house and shot himself on her lawn. Awful. But not her fault in any way.
Posted by: Lea at September 01, 2015 04:23 PM (lIU4e)
Posted by: simplemind at September 01, 2015 04:23 PM (5vV+V)
What do they call that with moms? Munchhousen by proxy or similar. Hopefully she won't ever have kids.
Posted by: Guy Mohawk at September 01, 2015 04:24 PM (ODxAs)
A glib comment != constant harassment to "just do it already."
Posted by: Coolio at September 01, 2015 04:19 PM (80fTb)
Again, there is a quantitative and qualitative difference between a minister saying "Being gay is bad," or Ozzie Osborn mumbling about 'slow suicide,' or even 'cyber bullying,' and a constant harassment to "just [kill yourself] already."
Especially when the one doing the harassing knows you already to be suicidal and *then* turns around and uses the suicide for personal gain.
Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - Fire-hooks and Rock Salt for sale at September 01, 2015 04:24 PM (kff5f)
"The Sheriff's Office said the deputies found a woman with a cut to
her head. The woman was holding a baby, who also appeared to have been
injured.
"The deputies attempted to arrest Flores, who, the
Sheriff's Office said, was armed, but he resisted. The deputies
attempted to use non-lethal weapons to detain Flores, officials said,
but were unsuccessful. The deputies then fired the fatal shots. Flores
died a short time later.
http://www.ksat.com/news/bexar-deputies-man-they-shot-idd-in-fatal-encounter
Posted by: Reno_Dave at September 01, 2015 04:24 PM (fPCZh)
Posted by: The Great _______ Snark at September 01, 2015 04:24 PM (W+64z)
Posted by: The Donald at September 01, 2015 04:24 PM (HxfDZ)
And I think context is essential. If you have someone who is telling a mentally ill person that they need to die all while planning to capitalize on their death, I think that's different than claiming a song made someone kill themselves, or even an offhand comment made in anger.
This was a premeditated, concerted effort against a person of questionable sanity.
Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at September 01, 2015 04:24 PM (/SIwB)
Posted by: HR braucht ein Bier at September 01, 2015 04:25 PM (/kI1Q)
Posted by: V the K at September 01, 2015 04:21 PM (O7MnT)
Forgot to close the sarc tags. I'll check into the barrel.
Posted by: ConservativeMonster at September 01, 2015 04:25 PM (0NdlF)
Posted by: The Drizzle at September 01, 2015 04:25 PM (P1s0L)
Posted by: sadeyesteve at September 01, 2015 04:25 PM (lPdaT)
Posted by: Count de Monet at September 01, 2015 04:26 PM (JO9+V)
She didnt make a one off quip in frustration to make him shut up about it: she encouraged him repeatedly and when he hesitated she goaded him into it. Judging how hard she had to push him into it can you say he wd have done it anyway? No.
Posted by: Bruce With a Wang! at September 01, 2015 04:26 PM (iQIUe)
Posted by: Wendy at September 01, 2015 04:26 PM (bpemY)
Posted by: simplemind at September 01, 2015 04:26 PM (5vV+V)
Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - Fire-hooks and Rock Salt for sale at September 01, 2015 04:24 PM (kff5f)
I mean, i think we can all agree that she is a terrible person.
I'm not sure it changes the "should she be legally culpable" question though.
There was a boy in my high school who had his girlfriend break up with him. He went to her house and shot himself on her lawn. Awful. But not her fault in any way.
Posted by: Lea at September 01, 2015 04:23 PM (lIU4e)
Right, that is awful. And imagine if they found an exasperated text message (or note or whatever) from her saying, "fine, then kill yourself. I'm done with you either way, I'm dating Joey now." Would she be legally culpable? I'd say no.
Posted by: mynewhandle at September 01, 2015 04:26 PM (AkOaV)
Posted by: V the K
-------------
These days, it is probably almost an absolute that the sermon would encourage the embrace and nurturing of sodomists.
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc at September 01, 2015 04:26 PM (9mTYi)
Posted by: Bruce With a Wang! at September 01, 2015 04:26 PM (iQIUe)
Well, because money is involved. The Insurance Company wouldn't stand for that being legal.
Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at September 01, 2015 04:27 PM (/SIwB)
I see 2 seriously disturbed people.
HERE, if it exists at all, is a bona fide case for intervention.
But I'd never trust her behind me.
Posted by: irongrampa at September 01, 2015 04:27 PM (jeCnD)
Posted by: Kurt Cobain at September 01, 2015 04:27 PM (6gR7l)
"After his death, Carter became a selfproclaimed advocate for mental health.
She organized a fundraising tournament in Roy's memory and posted on
Facebook and Twitter about her attempts to save her boyfriend's life.
Munchausen Syndrome in the Age of the Internet.
Like 'Jackie,' she needed a story of tragedy to make her feel special and get attention for herself.
Posted by: Pappy O'Daniel at September 01, 2015 04:27 PM (oVJmc)
Even that little psycho in Kentucky who tortured a girl to death gets non stop love letters --Christa something or the other.
Posted by: Bruce With a Wang! at September 01, 2015 04:27 PM (iQIUe)
And this case is vastly beyond that.
Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at September 01, 2015 04:28 PM (/SIwB)
-
Even giant Stay Puff Marshmallow men.
Posted by: The Great _______ Snark at September 01, 2015 04:28 PM (W+64z)
___
In my adult life, I've been to over a thousand church services across eight states and four countries and most every Christian denomination; I have never once heard this preached.
You're not going to the right churches.
Posted by: The International Church of Islam, Religion of Peace at September 01, 2015 04:28 PM (8ZskC)
This was a premeditated, concerted effort against a person of questionable sanity.
Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at September 01, 2015 04:24 PM (/SIwB)
But how do you write a law in such a way that it makes what this girl did a crime, but not an "offhand comment made in anger"? or Not a CD that seems to encourage suicide?
I just don't see how you thread that needle without arresting a LOT of people who should not be legally culpable for someone elses actions.
Posted by: mynewhandle at September 01, 2015 04:28 PM (AkOaV)
Posted by: Lea at September 01, 2015 04:23 PM (lIU4e)
And the lawn is easier to clean up than the driveway.....
Posted by: Nevergiveup at September 01, 2015 04:28 PM (DUoqb)
Posted by: Boss Moss at September 01, 2015 04:28 PM (DsveK)
He will ply her with pancakes.
She will ply him with rat poison.
Posted by: Pappy O'Daniel at September 01, 2015 04:29 PM (oVJmc)
TRA LA LA
LA LA LA LA
TRA LA LA
LA LA LA LA
Posted by: Asshole Banana Splits Guy at September 01, 2015 04:29 PM (7F1/n)
Not my proudest moment, and I did not for a second think she'd actually kill herself, but I mean... should I have been legally culpable if she did kill herself?
mynewhandle, this is the exact kind of situation that makes me leery of this.
There was a boy in my high school who had his girlfriend break up with him. He went to her house and shot himself on her lawn. Awful. But not her fault in any way.
Posted by: Lea at September 01, 2015 04:23 PM (lIU4e)
There is a Grand Canyon of difference between those instances and this sociopath continuously urging him to do it. Making every conversation about doing it. And then telling him to get back in the truck. Unless you're handing the girl the pills she plans to take or telling the guy to shoot himself in the head you aren't getting close to what this evil person has done.
Posted by: Buzzion at September 01, 2015 04:30 PM (z/Ubi)
I'm not sure I'd want to be represented in a criminal trial by an ewok who doesn't wake up until noon and who hunts hobos at night while drunk on val-u-rite.
but that's just me.
Posted by: mynewhandle at September 01, 2015 04:30 PM (AkOaV)
Posted by: Former Military at September 01, 2015 04:30 PM (vgIRn)
I don't know about the financial "gain" part of it, I'm only speaking to the concept of whether a girlfriend's influence convinced someone to commit suicide.
Echoing up the thread, I knew a guy who had a girlfriend that said if he broke up with her she threatened to kill herself and was dealing with a person that nearly did it.
Someone who commits suicide is considered mentally ill, so to make some else responsible as an influence is a stretch.
Posted by: Coolio at September 01, 2015 04:30 PM (80fTb)
Posted by: Boss Moss at September 01, 2015 04:31 PM (DsveK)
Posted by: Tilikum Killer Assault Whale at September 01, 2015 04:31 PM (+aCe4)
Posted by: HUCK / AKIN 2016 at September 01, 2015 04:31 PM (0LHZx)
but that's just me.
Posted by: mynewhandle at September 01, 2015 04:30 PM (AkOaV)
Raciss.
Posted by: Bob's House of Flannel Shirts and Wallet Chains at September 01, 2015 04:31 PM (vgIRn)
Right! If you can conceive of it being criminally wrong if donefor money, you certainly can conceive of it as being criminally wrong because a life was taken for malice. The life was self taken, but he DID NOT ACT ALONE. She conspired over time to support the life taking and to profit from it, albeit not in life insurance money, in notoriety and a future career.
Same thing. She should get charged.
Posted by: simplemind at September 01, 2015 04:31 PM (5vV+V)
Premeditation and let the courts decide.
What if she is more involved than is known at the moment, but because it's a suicide, it's "hands off"?
Posted by: rickb223 at September 01, 2015 04:31 PM (O+0DS)
Posted by: Boss Moss at September 01, 2015 04:31 PM (DsveK)
Right, another good example.
Are the asshole hecklers yelling at the suicidal man on the edge of the building CRIMINALLY liable if he actually jumps?
Posted by: mynewhandle at September 01, 2015 04:32 PM (AkOaV)
Posted by: mynewhandle at September 01, 2015 04:26 PM (AkOaV)
Right. I mean, I'd be happy if they locked this girl up for a good long while, because she's clearly awful. But with what law? And how would that affect other situations?
Maybe just lock her up for being crazy.
Posted by: Lea at September 01, 2015 04:32 PM (lIU4e)
Oi.
What part of "quantitatively and qualitatively different" did you miss?
If I'm joking about "the local stop-and-rob" and my idiot buddy goes and actually tries to rob it - I'm not culpable, morally or legally.
If I'm telling him every day how he should rob the local convenience store, and how he could do it, and help him plan it, and call him a coward every day when he doesn't... AT MINIMUM I'm morally culpable. I'm probably criminally culpable as well (conspiracy, etc).
This is much more like the latter option than the former. This wasn't some off-hand or glib comment. She planned it for him. She called him a coward for not doing it. Then she turned around (some are saying before he was even dead) and started trying to get famous off of it.
Now, as the law currently is, she may not be criminally culpable. No, I would have absolutely not problem if she *were.*
Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - Fire-hooks and Rock Salt for sale at September 01, 2015 04:32 PM (kff5f)
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc at September 01, 2015 04:32 PM (9mTYi)
This was an online relationship. They only physically met two times. His friends did not even know about her until he died. That is really the only time she wanted to be acknowledged as his girlfriend. When it was time to be consoled.
Posted by: CJ at September 01, 2015 04:32 PM (feOPk)
http://www.ustream.tv/channel/goatslive
Posted by: Bruce With a Wang! at September 01, 2015 04:32 PM (iQIUe)
Texts tell. She did figure that one out in her sorrow, thinking only of herself, and, whoa, "I could be in trouble." Ya think?
Social media has a way of both encouraging this type of narcissism and then being the method of protecting others. Or one would think (but not in date rape cases on college campuses. Nope. If you text all of your facebook friends that you are about to get it on with the boy down the hall, who happens to be as drunk as you, then, the next day he sees through the glass darkly that you resemble Chelsea and rejects you, then, nope!, he is guilty of rape and expelled. But I digress). I am sure, along with the texts, they can find photos of her sad faces and figuring out which little black dress to wear to the funeral.
I think you can sort of tell I am always on the side of the boy. Go figure.
Posted by: ChristyBlinky, aging supermodel Redneck Queen at September 01, 2015 04:32 PM (mOmt+)
Nothing funny about this in any way, shape or form...
Can't even type.
Time to walk the pup & get some vitamin D. See y'all after dinner.
Posted by: Chi at September 01, 2015 04:32 PM (lDfK8)
Posted by: Dr. Mabuse
-----------------------
The Church instituted Suicide as a Sin when they discovered many of the flock offing themselves to get to Heaven in a hurry. When you sell Heaven to well, many will try and cut in line.
Posted by: Senor Yeb and the Mexican Crazy Train at September 01, 2015 04:33 PM (oDCMR)
Posted by: rickb223 at September 01, 2015 04:33 PM (O+0DS)
Posted by: rickb223 at September 01, 2015 04:31 PM (O+0DS)
I mean, even if she bought him the truck, ran the hoses from the exhaust (or whatever), and set everything up for him -- it was HE who made the choice to kill himself.
And frankly, who made the choice to hang around with a batshit crazy nutso terrible human being bitch like that girl.
If she put a gun to his head and made him get in the car, that's a different story.
Posted by: mynewhandle at September 01, 2015 04:33 PM (AkOaV)
I would say it's similar to how you determine if someone told their friend to kill somebody seriously vs joking or telling their friend in anger (not meaning it) to kill someone. Nothing's different save the target.
Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at September 01, 2015 04:33 PM (/SIwB)
Posted by: Boss Moss at September 01, 2015 04:33 PM (DsveK)
Posted by: FenelonSpoke at September 01, 2015 03:38 PM (OSs/l)
If I said what she really needs to see, Ace might ban me.
Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at September 01, 2015 04:33 PM (aRgrb)
Posted by: Van Halen at September 01, 2015 04:34 PM (9mTYi)
In my adult life, I've been to over a thousand church services across eight states and four countries and most every Christian denomination; I have never once heard this preached.
Posted by: V the K
Nobody is making that claim in this thread.
Posted by: Coolio at September 01, 2015 04:34 PM (80fTb)
Posted by: Gentlemen, this is democracy manifest at September 01, 2015 04:34 PM (LWu6U)
Coolio, do you know what the felony murder rule is?
Criminal law is all about stretching responsibility for indirect acts. Otherwise far to many criminals would avoid punishment.
Felony murder sends you to the chair when you didn't kill anyone.
Posted by: simplemind at September 01, 2015 04:34 PM (5vV+V)
Posted by: mynewhandle
However, if they found hundreds of pressuring notes and helpful suicide advice and the combination to the gun safe, I'd say yes.
Posted by: Turd Ferguson at September 01, 2015 04:34 PM (VAsIq)
What if you're cranking track 2 off of Van Halen's 1984 as you drive by?
Posted by: srednop at September 01, 2015 04:34 PM (ZtFr+)
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc at September 01, 2015 04:22 PM (9mTYi)
As i pointed out, that was true in Judaism just for having tattoos. That doesn't mean that tattooing is any sort of crime that warrants jail, only shunning.
If suicide were truly considered "murder" then why aren't failed suicides prosecuted for attempted murder? The label of "murderer" is meaningless unless all failed suicides are legally treated as attempted first degree murders.
There's a difference between a label that one may put on something that bears no consequence (labeling the suicide after he's already dead) and trying to extend that label into a legal determination for the living.
Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at September 01, 2015 04:34 PM (zc3Db)
--------------
*sense the genesis of a new meme*
Get in the truck and just look at the flowers......
Posted by: rickb223 at September 01, 2015 04:35 PM (O+0DS)
Posted by: srednop at September 01, 2015 04:36 PM (ZtFr+)
Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - Fire-hooks and Rock Salt for sale at September 01, 2015 04:32 PM (kff5f)
Yeah, I don't know.
I don't think there's a simple answer here.
If someone told me to "go kill myself" "with a gun" "that you can buy at cabelas -- he's a link" "oh, ammos on sale, buy this brand"
"okay, pussy, now shoot yourself"
I don't think a reasonable person would think that that would lead to a reasonable person killing himself.
I just don't see how she could be legally culpable. I don't know though, like I said -- morally, she's guilty as hell.
Posted by: mynewhandle at September 01, 2015 04:37 PM (AkOaV)
--------------
*sense the genesis of a new meme*
--------
Get in, shut up and die
Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at September 01, 2015 04:37 PM (OLNwX)
Remember the kid who raped and killed a teacher and then tried to rape another teacher while in custody? What happened to him? It was another MassHole case.
Posted by: Bruce With a Wang! at September 01, 2015 04:37 PM (iQIUe)
Posted by: Tilikum Killer Assault Whale at September 01, 2015 04:37 PM (m3iiU)
Posted by: Senor Yeb and the Mexican Crazy Train at September 01, 2015 04:37 PM (oDCMR)
We do it all the time.
Conspiracy laws already address this (a joke or one-time comment to someone who then goes and actually commits a crime is not "conspiracy"), as do laws regarding incitement. I would focus on the repeated and constant nature of the encouragement.
It's not that hard to quantify the difference between an off-hand comment and a pattern of comments designed to spur one to action.
Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - Fire-hooks and Rock Salt for sale at September 01, 2015 04:37 PM (kff5f)
But how do you write a law in such a way that it makes what this girl did a crime, but not an "offhand comment made in anger"? or Not a CD that seems to encourage suicide?
Ok clearly nobody reads what I type. If suicide is illegal, she is guilty of conspiracy to commit suicide.
If you criminalize suicides, the successful suicides aren't going to go to jail, but those who conspire and assist in self killings would be liable for conspiring to do so. The law of conspiracy is well settled. You don't have to write anything other than a law that says suicide is illegal. Conspiracy is already on the books and has penalties attached in every state. One simple law. No fuss no muss.
Posted by: simplemind at September 01, 2015 04:38 PM (XkdIH)
Posted by: Fritz at September 01, 2015 04:38 PM (UzPAd)
Posted by: Salem, MA at September 01, 2015 04:38 PM (9mTYi)
Posted by: Boss Moss at September 01, 2015 04:38 PM (DsveK)
Posted by: Turd Ferguson at September 01, 2015 04:34 PM (VAsIq)
But I mean... he was not ruled mentally incompetent by any court that we know of, right?
So he was a functioning, mentally competent adult human being who --as far as we know -- acted completely alone in killing himself.
That kind of makes him responsible for his actions, even if little miss poutyface was urging him on from the sidelines.
Right?
Posted by: mynewhandle at September 01, 2015 04:38 PM (AkOaV)
Posted by: Auntie Doodles at September 01, 2015 04:39 PM (teYv/)
Posted by: simplemind at September 01, 2015 04:39 PM (XkdIH)
Bitches.
Posted by: Garrett at September 01, 2015 04:39 PM (wH2zY)
Posted by: Salem, MA at September 01, 2015 04:38 PM (9mTYi)
No it wouldn't: witches were hanged in Salem, not burned.
Posted by: Pedant at September 01, 2015 04:39 PM (/SIwB)
Posted by: rickl at September 01, 2015 04:39 PM (zoehZ)
Posted by: simplemind at September 01, 2015 04:38 PM (XkdIH)
well, suicide is illegal, and yet they're not charging her with conspiracy.
They're charging her with involuntary manslaughter.
Posted by: mynewhandle at September 01, 2015 04:39 PM (AkOaV)
Posted by: Turd Ferguson at September 01, 2015 04:39 PM (VAsIq)
Posted by: Salem, MA
-----------
Okay 400 years ago....
Posted by: Salem, MA at September 01, 2015 04:39 PM (9mTYi)
And a jury, presumably, would decide that level of culpability in the suicide not the state.
Posted by: andycanuck at September 01, 2015 04:40 PM (pgzyN)
If you are getting texts from someone who is telling you to kill yourself, you should probably block them.
How come when a girl does this shit we say she has "munchies by proxy" or whatever, but when a guy does it we just straight up say he is a psychopath?
Posted by: Gentlemen, this is democracy manifest at September 01, 2015 04:34 PM (LWu6U)
This seems to be more of a girl way to play things to me...Maybe there are men doing the same thing. Feel free to post examples.
But she has been called a sociopath, which is more accurate than a psychopath really. So.
Posted by: Lea at September 01, 2015 04:41 PM (lIU4e)
Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - Fire-hooks and Rock Salt for sale at September 01, 2015 04:37 PM (kff5f)
But if I stalk you in every thread saying "cmon alleng, kill yourself. Do it. Do it. Do it." would that make you kill yourself?
Of course not!
Would I, as a reasonable person, assume that you as a reasonable person would take my taunting / encouragement to heart? No!
So why is this any different?
Like I said, I don't really know the answer here, I'm just kind of gaming it out in my head on the fly.
Posted by: mynewhandle at September 01, 2015 04:41 PM (AkOaV)
The solution here is simple, but we have to ask "what would the mediaevals have done?"
We need to tie her to a rock and see if she floats. If she floats, she is a witch - Burn her.
Posted by: Gentlemen, this is democracy manifest at September 01, 2015 04:41 PM (LWu6U)
No one is saying he isn't responsible for his actions. The question is whether she is responsible for HER actions.
Like someone who helps plan a bank robbery but doesn't go to the bank she is guilty of conspiracy. And if someone died in the bank robbery she would be subject in some jurisdictions to the felony murder rule. EVEN if the person who died was her co conspirator! Bottom line, criminal masterminds don't get a free pass.
Posted by: simplemind at September 01, 2015 04:41 PM (XkdIH)
Coolio, do you know what the felony murder rule is?
Criminal law is all about stretching responsibility for indirect acts. Otherwise far to many criminals would avoid punishment.
Felony murder sends you to the chair when you didn't kill anyone.
Posted by: simplemind
I don't consider suicide to be murder in a legal sense.
Some states do, but how many times does the state prosecute a failed suicide attempt as "attempted murder"?
I guess I can separate someone being evil but not necessarily getting the state involved.
I consider abortion to be an evil act, but even if abortion was illegal, I couldn't imagine say charging someone who actively convinced a person to get an abortion.
Posted by: Coolio at September 01, 2015 04:41 PM (80fTb)
Posted by: rickb223 at September 01, 2015 04:42 PM (O+0DS)
Posted by: Mr. Healthy Penis at September 01, 2015 04:42 PM (HstNY)
I totally don't want to be one of those "why are we talking about this" people, but I sort of am.
How generalizable is this? How many other instances are going to crop up so that it's important to have an opinion on it?
I had intended to distract y'all with something shiny, but I got nothin'.
You?
Posted by: Bandersnatch at September 01, 2015 04:42 PM (JtwS4)
Posted by: Serious Cat at September 01, 2015 04:43 PM (UypUQ)
Posted by: mynewhandle at September 01, 2015 04:39 PM (AkOaV)
"involuntary"?? But the whole basis of their allegations of any "crime" is that it was intentional. specifically.
This just shows that they are making shit up ... and intellectually offensive shit, at that. if one starts holding people liable for "involuntary manslaughter" any time that stuff they said just so happened to allegedly lead someone else to commit suicide ... that is just crazy.
Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at September 01, 2015 04:43 PM (zc3Db)
Posted by: Pedant
-------------
My good friend and colleague, please stop screwing with my narrative. "False but believable" is acceptable journalism these days.
Posted by: Salem, MA at September 01, 2015 04:43 PM (9mTYi)
And a jury, presumably, would decide that level of culpability in the suicide not the state.
Posted by: andycanuck at September 01, 2015 04:40 PM (pgzyN)
I think it really is hard.
because then we get back to the bullying stuff.
With mean girls in middle school telling the girl with glasses to "kill yourself, none of the boys even like you!"
"You should just go die somewhere, loser!"
Kids say MEAN, HORRIBLE SHIT all the time...
Posted by: mynewhandle at September 01, 2015 04:43 PM (AkOaV)
Bitches.
Posted by: Garrett at September 01, 2015
Wonder if her dad is still alive, mothers/daughters and all.
Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at September 01, 2015 04:43 PM (OLNwX)
Posted by: Pedant at September 01, 2015 04:39 PM (/SIwB)
Giles Corey called, and said he coulda used a spotter.
Posted by: Bob's House of Flannel Shirts and Wallet Chains at September 01, 2015 04:43 PM (vgIRn)
Sounds silly, but in this day and age, it concerns me.
Posted by: Soona at September 01, 2015 04:44 PM (P25Hh)
Posted by: Y-not at September 01, 2015 04:44 PM (xpJpI)
Posted by: Soothsayer, now with a low profile tip and ergonomical handle at September 01, 2015 04:44 PM (aqmEj)
Posted by: Boss Moss at September 01, 2015 04:44 PM (DsveK)
Posted by: FenelonSpoke at September 01, 2015 04:45 PM (OSs/l)
Posted by: Boss Moss at September 01, 2015 04:45 PM (DsveK)
Wrong. The question is whether she is LEGALLY responsible for her actions, rather than just morally. She is absolutely MORALLY responsible. Legally? More complicated.
Posted by: Lea at September 01, 2015 04:46 PM (lIU4e)
Posted by: Boss Moss at September 01, 2015 04:46 PM (DsveK)
---------------
Possibly, it is good policy to simply not say things like that.
I know, I know... I'm going.
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc at September 01, 2015 04:46 PM (9mTYi)
Unless it's some asshole socking the dear, departed Buzzion. If that's the case, ckuf that guy.
Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at September 01, 2015 04:46 PM (4ErVI)
Posted by: rickb223 at September 01, 2015 04:47 PM (O+0DS)
That's where diminished capacity comes into play. "A normal person?" No, absolutely not. But someone who is already suicidal and struggling with depression? That's a very different kettle of fish.
And, again, we already have laws on the books designed to protect those not in their right mind from predation.
That's the thing - if this were a one time thing, or he hadn't been suicidal (and she hadn't been a ghoul trying to turn his suicide into personal gain) - I think she could say "What the f*ck! Dude, I was kidding!"
This? Not that.
Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - Fire-hooks and Rock Salt for sale at September 01, 2015 04:47 PM (kff5f)
Posted by: Weasel at September 01, 2015 04:47 PM (e3bId)
You already can't say that kind of thing nowadays. It's taken as harassment and you get fired or arrested by the FBI for being a terrorist.
Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at September 01, 2015 04:48 PM (/SIwB)
Posted by: Minnfidel at September 01, 2015 04:48 PM (cYXYO)
Posted by: Jack at September 01, 2015 04:48 PM (XhzTz)
Posted by: Boss Moss at September 01, 2015 04:49 PM (DsveK)
Of course not!
Would I, as a reasonable person, assume that you as a reasonable person would take my taunting / encouragement to heart? No!
So why is this any different?
Like I said, I don't really know the answer here, I'm just kind of gaming it out in my head on the fly.
Posted by: mynewhandle
If you insinuated yourself in AllenG's life as a friend first, then preyed on weaknesses you learned as someone he trusted, that is miles different from some stranger shouting at you to kill yourself.
Posted by: Turd Ferguson at September 01, 2015 04:49 PM (VAsIq)
Posted by: Soothsayer, now with a low profile tip and ergonomical handle at September 01, 2015 04:49 PM (aqmEj)
Posted by: Tyrone Slothrop at September 01, 2015 04:49 PM (LDepp)
Posted by: Jack at September 01, 2015 04:49 PM (XhzTz)
Posted by: Jenny Is Just Testing Something at September 01, 2015 04:50 PM (GvNnD)
Those of you who call yourselves libertarians, this is the sort of thing about which I would hope you are howling about, if the long arm of the government gets involved.
She seems like an awful human being. He chose to kill himself. Neither one of those things are, nor should they be, illegal.
Don't get technical with me about suicide, I don't care if there are laws on the books. You can't prosecute the dead.
Posted by: BurtTC at September 01, 2015 04:50 PM (TOk1P)
Posted by: Thatch at September 01, 2015 04:50 PM (pBZp4)
Ofcoursereporting being what it is, this is likely factually erroneous.
Sad sign of the times number 3462.
Posted by: simplemind at September 01, 2015 04:50 PM (XkdIH)
Involuntary Manslaughter
As with voluntary manslaughter Massachusetts statutory law does not define involuntary manslaughter. Rather, Massachusetts common law, as pronounced by the courts, provides the definition for involuntary manslaughter:
One can commit involuntary manslaughter through:
(1) an unintentional killing occasioned by an act which constitutes such a disregard of the probable harmful consequences to another as to be wanton or reckless; or
(2) an unintentional killing resulting from a battery.
The first theory under which a person may face conviction for involuntary manslaughter requires an unintentional, yet unlawful killing resulting from the wanton or reckless conduct of the defendant. This theory of involuntary manslaughter is sometimes called "Welansky manslaughter," after the 1944 case in which the owner of a nightclub was convicted of involuntary manslaughter when a fire in his club caused the death of over 400 patrons. That case also established that wanton or reckless conduct includes both affirmative acts and failures to act where a duty to act exists. Such acts or omissions must embody a disregard for the probable harmful consequences to another. The conduct must involve a high degree of likelihood that substantial harm will result to another.
The law requires that the defendant have knowledge of the circumstances and the intent to do the act that caused the death, and also requires that the circumstances presented a danger of serious harm such that a reasonable man would have recognized the nature and degree of danger. Wanton and reckless conduct is distinct from negligence or gross negligence for which, in the common law of Massachusetts, there is no criminal liability.
The second theory on which a defendant may face conviction for involuntary manslaughter requires that the defendant commit a battery, not amounting to a felony, which causes death. A person who uses a level of force against another that is likely to cause harm and which produces death is guilty of involuntary manslaughter. The law requires that the prosecution establish that the defendant knew, or should have known that his conduct created a high degree of likelihood that substantial harm would result to another. This means that the same standards of proof apply to both voluntary and involuntary manslaughter.
The punishment for both voluntary and involuntary manslaughter, as set by statute, is the same. The maximum sentence for an involuntary manslaughter conviction is imprisonment for twenty years, except in circumstances where the voluntary manslaughter involves explosives or infernal machines, in which cases the maximum punishment is life imprisonment.
[andycanuck: And as a comparison...]
Voluntary Manslaughter
Massachusetts statutory law does not define voluntary manslaughter. Rather, Massachusetts common law, as announced by the courts, provides a definition for manslaughter:
The unlawful killing of another, intentionally caused from a sudden transport of passion or heat of blood:
(1) upon a reasonable provocation and without malice or upon sudden combat; or
(2) from the excessive use of force in self-defense.
Posted by: andycanuck at September 01, 2015 04:50 PM (pgzyN)
Posted by: Joe Biden at September 01, 2015 04:51 PM (UlJ3l)
Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at September 01, 2015 04:51 PM (4ErVI)
Posted by: Jack
------------
That's you, Dr. K, isn't it?
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc at September 01, 2015 04:51 PM (9mTYi)
She was rubbing one out while he did, too. Any bets?
Posted by: Bigby's Noogie at September 01, 2015 04:51 PM (3ZtZW)
Posted by: Boss Moss at September 01, 2015 04:44 PM (DsveK)
You know what it takes to sell blogs? Brass Balls of Banning. Now put. The Coffee. Down.
Posted by: The guy from Mitch and Murray at September 01, 2015 04:51 PM (vgIRn)
You can prosecute the living conspirators though can't you.
Bank robber dies in the act. Does that mean thecrime didn't happen, so we can't charge the get away driver? Or the person who planned it but stayedhome?
Posted by: simplemind at September 01, 2015 04:52 PM (XkdIH)
Posted by: Ray Charles at September 01, 2015 04:53 PM (3ZtZW)
I would compare this to the case of Iago and Othello. Othello did the actual crime, of murdering Desdemona. And the injustice of suspecting her of infidelity. But the whole tragedy was plotted and egged on by Iago. At the end of the play, Othello gets what he deserves - death. (Suicide, as a matter of fact!) But Iago is taken away to be... dealt with. And we don't ever see or hear what happens to him. Maybe Shakespeare recognized that these sorts of cases don't make for neat, legally-tight prescriptions. But we all feel that it would be wrong for Iago to just dance off because he didn't personally do any violence.
Posted by: Dr. Mabuse at September 01, 2015 04:55 PM (VBbCO)
Posted by: Jinx the Cat at September 01, 2015 04:56 PM (l3vZN)
Dear God, help us.
Posted by: Donna and V. (sans ampersands) at September 01, 2015 04:56 PM (u0lmX)
Don't get technical with me about suicide, I don't care if there are laws on the books. You can't prosecute the dead.
Posted by: BurtTC at September 01, 2015 04:50 PM (TOk1P)
The dead vote in Chicago, no reason why they shouldn't be prosecuted from time to time....
Posted by: IllTemperedCur at September 01, 2015 04:56 PM (TuXs5)
Posted by: andycanuck at September 01, 2015 04:57 PM (pgzyN)
Did Charles Boyer commit a crime in Gaslight? I say yes!
Posted by: Bruce With a Wang! at September 01, 2015 04:57 PM (iQIUe)
Not my proudest moment, and I did not for a second think she'd actually kill herself, but I mean... should I have been legally culpable if she did kill herself?
I would have obviously felt horrible about it for the rest of my life so thank god she didn't kill herself, but legally responsible for an unstable persons actions?
Posted by: mynewhandle at September 01, 2015 04:19 PM (AkOaV)
There's a huge gulf between a glib comment made by the exasperated partner of a drama queen, and the persistent amd constructive badgering done by this evil twat.
Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at September 01, 2015 05:04 PM (aRgrb)
I think you can disagree over whether or not suicide should be a crime. But if it is a crime in that state she can be charged with conspiracy.
While personal autonomy is a societalgood in general, it should have limits.That is a conservative tenent.Suicide hurts more than justthe person who self killed. There are always families, and often dependents who are hurt.Suicideis not something society should encourage.Period.
On the other hand, many here would advocate self killing if they were suffering from an incurable disease i.e. a mercy killing. I personally, get that. I don't judge anyone who does that, not my job. Frankly those people aren't ever going to face a jury either. So not a practical issue.
Now I have seen cases where people go into hospitals and shoot loved ones who are suffering from an incurable disease.That's a crime. Punishment would depend on the evidence. Not going to give it a pass though because that situation istoo easilysubject to abuse.
Posted by: simplemind at September 01, 2015 05:05 PM (5vV+V)
Posted by: Hillary Clinton at September 01, 2015 05:06 PM (y5bPZ)
Should be "voluntary" manslaughter charge via her pestering him to kill himself even when he claimed to have a good day. And "helping" him figure out how the generator worked, telling him to get it repaired, etc.
This was not an innocent lass who wanted the best for her "friend." It was a morbid experiment with a life and the craving for attention after the fact.
Posted by: ChristyBlinky, aging supermodel Redneck Queen at September 01, 2015 05:06 PM (mOmt+)
Posted by: Libertatis_Cunabula at September 01, 2015 05:08 PM (vF9bi)
I would have obviously felt horrible about it for the rest of my life so thank god she didn't kill herself, but legally responsible for an unstable persons actions?
You might not be following the argument because you don't know what it takes to make a conspiracy. A conspiracy is more than just "hey lets go rob the bank sometime". Glib comments do not a conspiracy make. There has to be concreteplanning, and it takes place over time, and has a definite goal. A concert of wills. Its a very well developed area of law with a lot of cases. Although I must concede its is likely an abstraction for a layperson.
Posted by: simplemind at September 01, 2015 05:12 PM (5vV+V)
I mean, that's how the succubus draws you into her crazy, right?
Posted by: Dale Franks at September 01, 2015 05:16 PM (R/CAo)
This just shows that they are making shit up ... and intellectually offensive shit, at that. if one starts holding people liable for "involuntary manslaughter" any time that stuff they said just so happened to allegedly lead someone else to commit suicide ... that is just crazy.
Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at September 01, 2015 04:43 PM (zc3Db)
You don't seem very familiar with the law.
"involuntary manslaughter" means that you were criminally negligent in actions in a way that lead to someone's death, without the intentions of killing someone.
Ex: DUI that results in car accident killing non-drunk driver. The drunk driver did not desire to kill someone, but deliberately took actions (drink + drive) that led to someone's death.
Posted by: ConservativeMonster at September 01, 2015 05:18 PM (0NdlF)
Thus, this is Society's Fault.
Posted by: RobM1981 at September 01, 2015 05:23 PM (zurJC)
Posted by: Dirks Strewn at September 01, 2015 05:31 PM (QdAXQ)
seriously.
His death was her employment stepping stone.
I don't have a problem with the charges.
Posted by: SarahW at September 01, 2015 05:33 PM (3fTXW)
Posted by: RobM1981 at September 01, 2015 05:40 PM (zurJC)
"involuntary manslaughter" means that you were criminally negligent in actions in a way that lead to someone's death, without the intentions of killing someone.
Posted by: ConservativeMonster at September 01, 2015 05:18 PM (0NdlF)
I understand that, full well. No one is really considering the idea that she did this WITHOUT the intention of him carrying out his suicide - not those arguing for her to held criminally liable and not those who think she has no criminal liability.
The only real argument against her is that she INTENDED to talk him into killing himself. Without that intention there is absolutely nothing to even discuss. By the standard of "criminal negligence" I think the parents probably would be a better case.
The state is making an insane case. No surprise. Our courts (and their officers) entertain the most insane and asinine ideas daily, which is why they deserve our contempt.
Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at September 01, 2015 05:44 PM (zc3Db)
Unfortunately she'll probably get a slap on the wrist, given the laws in her state and because she's young, white, and good-looking. There's one pic of her giving a disgusted look at (presumably) the judge. There's no remorse there, none at all. Nothing but sly calculation.
Posted by: JuJuBee at September 01, 2015 06:00 PM (9pupE)
"For more than a week in July 2014, Carter and Roy exchanged hundreds of messages in which Carter insisted that Roy would be better off dead."
This isn't an offhand comment. This is a documented sustained effort on her part.
We can bring it to a jury of her peers and they can decide whether the charge fits. That's what trials are for.
On the off chance that she's "innocent" and happens to look guilty enough that her peers find her so ... tough luck. Turns out spending a week encouraging someone to kill himself isn't a wise life decision.
She'll get a chance to learn from her mistake; he won't.
Posted by: ConservativeMonster at September 01, 2015 06:28 PM (0NdlF)
I am a James Dean fan. (Just recently finished re-watching Kazan's _East of Eden_)
If James Dean had had an EVIL twin: it would have been this sad, horrendous bitch, Carter.
(Just look at her eyes and compare with Dean's.)
Posted by: Trump Super-Fan at September 01, 2015 06:37 PM (l2dSQ)
This isn't an offhand comment. This is a documented sustained effort on her part.
That's my point. There is nothing "involuntary' or merely "negligent" about this. It is an intentional effort. If you believe that she is criminally liable then you have to believe that she was far more than merely "negligent". You have given proof of intention. You would use this to get her to plea bargain for a charge of involuntary manslaughter, not to actually try to take her to trial on that charge.
We can bring it to a jury of her peers and they can decide whether the charge fits. That's what trials are for.
Prosecutors are not supposed to bring ridiculous charges just to drag someone through court. If the prosecutor thinks that there is criminal liability here, then that is due to an INTENTIONAL effort to get the guy to kill himself (if one considers that a crime).
On the off chance that she's "innocent" and happens to look guilty enough that her peers find her so ... tough luck. Turns out spending a week encouraging someone to kill himself isn't a wise life decision.
She'll get a chance to learn from her mistake; he won't.
Posted by: ConservativeMonster at September 01, 2015 06:28 PM (0NdlF)
Meh. I don't hold people liable for someone else deciding to kill himself. If he was that easily swayed then he was bound to kill himself over something, eventually. I hold him solely responsible for his suicide. Evidently we disagree on this.
Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at September 01, 2015 06:42 PM (zc3Db)
Posted by: RAB at September 01, 2015 07:08 PM (t/fol)
Involuntary manslaughter means that it is not voluntary manslaughter, which is, "I kill you".
"Kill yourself" does not fit into "I kill you".
Would it be possible to charge her with voluntary manslaughter? You'd have to establish that her words alone are enough to be a murder weapon. Not a lawyer, but that doesn't sound possible. It also requires getting the mental state of the victim, which is unavailable because he's dead. Remember the state has to prove the case.
Legal logic can be weird and there are horrible rulings, but at a glance there's nothing particularly wrong with it here.
Posted by: ConservativeMonster at September 01, 2015 07:10 PM (0NdlF)
Posted by: Sam at September 01, 2015 07:38 PM (sO6CM)
Posted by: mark at September 01, 2015 07:46 PM (1Qsuq)
Posted by: Grump928(C) at September 01, 2015 08:03 PM (rwI+c)
Posted by: dagny at September 01, 2015 08:22 PM (AjoTQ)
Posted by: dogfish at September 01, 2015 08:27 PM (jWtyG)
"Come on honey.... I SWEAR I'll kill myself but I want to do butt stuff with you before I die." Then just decide you'll kill yourself later.
Posted by: Sam in Va at September 01, 2015 08:53 PM (9stgl)
Good news for me!
Posted by: Prothonotary Warbler... Trump/Camacho 2016! at September 01, 2015 08:53 PM (wKc1L)
Posted by: Sam in Va at September 01, 2015 08:56 PM (9stgl)
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2015/08/slender-man-stabbing.html
Posted by: The bukes at September 01, 2015 08:57 PM (5TcRs)
Posted by: Randy at September 01, 2015 10:51 PM (wxQ53)
She was impatient to get the show on the road, because she wanted to enhance her fundraising resume and play brave heroine who prevails and makes the world a better place.
To her, him ending his life was a gimmick that would get her where she wanted to go in life.
If you read the transcript, she's relentless and desperate to stop him from backing out. I think she realized shed gone too far and if he lived and got better, not only did she miss out on the boosterism gig and resume fattening, her psychopath over was blown.
Posted by: SarahW at September 01, 2015 11:13 PM (3fTXW)
If your mean and callous enough to talk someone into suicide then It's not Darwin on your shoulder but Satan.
The moral of this tale of Woe is, "What comes around goes around" l'il girl.
This is not the last we have heard of her.
Posted by: obsidian at September 02, 2015 12:29 AM (ARK2U)
Posted by: Tonys Weenir at September 02, 2015 02:56 AM (ybIap)
Posted by: Walknot at September 02, 2015 04:38 PM (FnHBZ)
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