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Update: Pentagon IG Has Launched Investigation Into Charges That Intel Analysts Were Pressured to Make Obama's Phony War on ISIS Appear More Winning Than It Actually Is

Pardon me, I'm a couple of days behind this story -- not only was that Daily Beat article from yesterday, but the allegations were enough to spur the announcement of an IG probe yesterday, too.

Sorry, I missed this story. (Well, I had it open in my thousand tabs and then lost it.)

The New York Times reports:

WASHINGTON -- The Pentagon’s inspector general is investigating allegations that military officials have skewed intelligence assessments about the United States-led campaign in Iraq against the Islamic State to provide a more optimistic account of progress, according to several officials familiar with the inquiry.

The investigation began after at least one civilian Defense Intelligence Agency analyst told the authorities that he had evidence that officials at United States Central Command -- the military headquarters overseeing the American bombing campaign and other efforts against the Islamic State -- were improperly reworking the conclusions of intelligence assessments prepared for policy makers, including President Obama, the government officials said.

Fuller details of the claims were not available, including when the assessments were said to have been altered and who at Central Command, or Centcom, the analyst said was responsible. The officials, speaking only on the condition of anonymity about classified matters, said that the recently opened investigation focused on whether military officials had changed the conclusions of draft intelligence assessments during a review process and then passed them on.

...

Legitimate differences of opinion are common and encouraged among national security officials, so the inspector general's investigation is an unusual move and suggests that the allegations go beyond typical intelligence disputes. Government rules state that intelligence assessments "must not be distorted" by agency agendas or policy views. Analysts are required to cite the sources that back up their conclusions and to acknowledge differing viewpoints.

...

Some senior American officials in recent weeks have provided largely positive public assessments about the progress of the military campaign against the Islamic State....

But recent intelligence assessments, including some by Defense Intelligence Agency, paint a sober picture about how little the Islamic State has been weakened over the past year....

The New York Times suggests (without saying so) that all of this, to the extent there may be a "this" there at all, is due to the military brass having an vested interest in portraying themselves as more effective than they are -- lying to poor abused Obama, that is, to make themselves look good.

I have rather different suspicions myself. I suspect that Obama's people are in fact the ones putting pressure on the brass, who in turn put pressure on the analysts, to report back to him that which he hath decreed must be the reality we believe in, so he can disseminate his faked up version of reality to Congress and the American public generally.

But I guess we'll just have to see.

Scandal-free administration, boys. Scandal-free.

Posted by: Ace at 01:28 PM




Comments

(Jump to bottom of comments)

1 Like this will go anywhere...

Posted by: donna at August 27, 2015 01:29 PM (hUdMz)

2 Fox meet the inhabitants of the hen house.

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at August 27, 2015 01:30 PM (n6Nt0)

3 Doesn't a scandal have to be known by a majority of the electorate?

If Vets can die waiting for care or given too much meds and no one bats an eye. I don't see this as going anywhere, let alone become a bonafide scandal

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at August 27, 2015 01:32 PM (n6Nt0)

4 Didn't obama recently executive order some controls on IG's? I can't remember, but I seem to recall something about this...

Posted by: donna at August 27, 2015 01:32 PM (hUdMz)

5 guess i better get the others

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at August 27, 2015 01:32 PM (n6Nt0)

6 The Indian problem is largely abated.

Posted by: Gen. George Custer at August 27, 2015 01:32 PM (8ZskC)

7 Hasn't someone already said it? -- "Barry lied, people died!"

Cordially...

Posted by: Rick at August 27, 2015 01:33 PM (WO9sh)

8 Germany will be satisfied with the Sudetenland.

Posted by: Neville Chamberlain at August 27, 2015 01:33 PM (8ZskC)

9 At this point, it's probably just safe to assume the absolute worst from this administration, up to and including where this dope was born. I don't care if it's Porky Pig getting sworn in but January 2017 can't come soon enough. That or SMOD.

Posted by: Eli Cash at August 27, 2015 01:33 PM (a+WIL)

10 This administration is known for its bullying.

How could anyone draw any other conclusion? /r

The NYTimes never gives up.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at August 27, 2015 01:34 PM (qCMvj)

11 If only the Czar knew what his ministers were up to.

Posted by: Grump928(C) at August 27, 2015 01:34 PM (rwI+c)

12 The stench from this Admin can never be cleaned up

Posted by: Nevergiveup at August 27, 2015 01:34 PM (gf8BH)

13 >>> go beyond typical intelligence disputes.
-------

I dispute there is any intelligence in the WH.

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at August 27, 2015 01:35 PM (n6Nt0)

14


The JEF wants to go out all clean and shiny.

His post, post, post mortem will be indeed ugly, if we ever survive to the post, post mortem at all.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at August 27, 2015 01:35 PM (qCMvj)

15 Yeah, we're totally kicking their ass.

Posted by: Potemkin Villiage Idiot at August 27, 2015 01:35 PM (QM5S2)

16 If only Stalin knew we were hungry!

Posted by: HR braucht ein Bier at August 27, 2015 01:35 PM (/kI1Q)

17 The stench from this Admin can never be cleaned up

I might be prudent to tear down the WH and start over again...

Posted by: donna at August 27, 2015 01:35 PM (hUdMz)

18 Is this a watermelon which I see before me, The rind toward my hand? Come, let me clutch thee. I have thee not, and yet I see thee still. Art thou not, fatal vision, ...

- Bryce Williams

Posted by: The Great White Snark at August 27, 2015 01:36 PM (lGxTo)

19 God himself could not sink this ship.

Posted by: Capt. Edward Smith at August 27, 2015 01:36 PM (8ZskC)

20 9 At this point, it's probably just safe to assume the absolute worst from this administration, up to and including where this dope was born. I don't care if it's Porky Pig getting sworn in but January 2017 can't come soon enough. That or SMOD.
Posted by: Eli Cash at August 27, 2015 01:33 PM (a+WIL)

I, uh, bu-deh-bu-deh-bu-deh, swear that I will uh-b-b-b-b-b faithfully execute the uh-bu-deh-bu-deh office of the uh-bu-bu-bu-bu-bu President of the United States.

Posted by: President Porky Pig at August 27, 2015 01:36 PM (2Ojst)

21 NOT a smignin of corruption!

Posted by: Nip Sip at August 27, 2015 01:36 PM (0FSuD)

22 So since we are finding out this week, Obama will find out about this some time next week and be wery wery angwy. Totally believable.

Posted by: Eli Cash at August 27, 2015 01:36 PM (a+WIL)

23 12 The stench from this Admin can never be cleaned up
Posted by: Nevergiveup at August 27, 2015 01:34 PM (gf8BH)

Oh it can, but do we really want to start from complete scratch?

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at August 27, 2015 01:36 PM (n6Nt0)

24 This jug-eared fuck, his rat-faced handler Jarret, and his resting-bitch-faced wife have been an unmitigated disaster for this country. I don't believe we will ever recover.

Posted by: kathysaysso at August 27, 2015 01:36 PM (fMQoG)

25 Steiner Jeb! will come.

Posted by: Grump928(C) at August 27, 2015 01:36 PM (rwI+c)

26 The generals are lying to him! They lie!

If only Stalin - I mean Obama - knew!

Posted by: Mikey NTH - Stay Aghast of Events at the Outrage Outlet! at August 27, 2015 01:36 PM (hLRSq)

27 ace, which side of the argument do you fall on?

Are you in the "if we just worked harder, the middle east would be full of friendly westernized democracies" camp, or the "this is absolutely futile to try to change these cultures" camp?

Posted by: mynewhandle at August 27, 2015 01:37 PM (AkOaV)

28 The deuce?!?!?!

Posted by: Navin R Johnson at August 27, 2015 01:37 PM (Y4US3)

29

There are no conspiracies anymore.

You'll have to prove to me, hard, next time one pops up that it is not a conspiracy. These guys are the lowest of lows.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at August 27, 2015 01:37 PM (qCMvj)

30 Lying crackers in fancy dress. I should file an EEOC report against them making me look bad that way!

Posted by: president o'bumbles at August 27, 2015 01:37 PM (pgzyN)

31 If only the Czar knew what his ministers were up to.
Posted by: Grump928(C) at August 27, 2015 01:34 PM (rwI+c)


If only Comrade Stalin Knew!

Posted by: Nevergiveup at August 27, 2015 01:37 PM (gf8BH)

32 So, kinda like that Pentagon letter that came out a few weeks ago that warned that military families in WY and CO had been approached in front of their homes and harassed by ME men who knew their husband's title, etc.....and then within 24 hours of being reported the Pentagon said "Our bad, all military families are totes safe!!".

Posted by: Lizzy at August 27, 2015 01:37 PM (NOIQH)

33 Posted by: President Porky Pig

Don't worry, you can continue the tradition of having the real oath-taking occur behind closed doors in secret.

Posted by: Moderate Salami, weeping for our dead Republic at August 27, 2015 01:37 PM (/Ho8c)

34 This jug-eared fuck, his rat-faced handler Jarret, and his resting-bitch-faced wife have been an unmitigated disaster for this country. I don't believe we will ever recover.
Posted by: kathysaysso at August 27, 2015 01:36 PM (fMQoG)


well said

you are braver than me

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at August 27, 2015 01:38 PM (qCMvj)

35 Yeah, Ace, but remember: Both sides do it!

The liberals will insist it's no worse than the Bush administration did with pre-Iraq-war intelligence. Those who know otherwise and give a damn will say no they didn't, and cite the Robb-Silberman commission report. The liberals will insist that anyone who does so is a pro-Bush hack. And the above-the-fray, pox-on-both-their-houses types will shake their heads at all the partisanship and say, They all do it.

I haven't read the comments to the earlier post yet, so my apologies if someone has made this point.

Posted by: JPS at August 27, 2015 01:38 PM (De4w2)

36 Racist Faux News nontroversy!

Posted by: Cave Johnson at August 27, 2015 01:38 PM (2jQGY)

37 >>>Are you in the "if we just worked harder, the middle east would be full of friendly westernized democracies" camp, or the "this is absolutely futile to try to change these cultures" camp?

more in the latter though I still want some engagement and by engagement I mean large scale bombing

Posted by: ace at August 27, 2015 01:38 PM (dciA+)

38 Man, everyone really picked up on the same theme.

Posted by: Mikey NTH - Stay Aghast of Events at the Outrage Outlet! at August 27, 2015 01:38 PM (hLRSq)

39
There are no conspiracies anymore.



You'll have to prove to me, hard, next time one pops up that it is not a conspiracy. These guys are the lowest of lows.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at August


It's the Chicago Way.

Posted by: Moderate Salami, weeping for our dead Republic at August 27, 2015 01:38 PM (/Ho8c)

40 When the survivors run away you've won, no analysis required.

Posted by: DaveA at August 27, 2015 01:38 PM (DL2i+)

41 "19
God himself could not sink this ship."

I'd love to see him try!

Posted by: Eli Cash at August 27, 2015 01:38 PM (a+WIL)

42 NOT a smignin of corruption!



That's gotta be metric.

Posted by: rickb223 at August 27, 2015 01:39 PM (O+0DS)

43 As one who used to write many intel assessments, this is one of the areas where professional intelligence officers will fall on their swords over. The intel is the intel. As pointed out, you can disagree over what the assessment means, or even the interpretation of the information, but in the end, the assessment is what it is.
If that process becomes politicized, then the whole intelligence genre is jeopardized. And every Administration, regardless of political party, needs to know what the ground truth is.

Posted by: Diogenes at August 27, 2015 01:39 PM (KE8QG)

44
more in the latter though I still want some engagement and by engagement I mean large scale bombing

Posted by: ace


lol

Posted by: Moderate Salami, weeping for our dead Republic at August 27, 2015 01:39 PM (/Ho8c)

45 more in the latter though I still want some engagement and by engagement I mean large scale bombing

Me too... Let's get Biblical on their ass...

Posted by: donna at August 27, 2015 01:39 PM (hUdMz)

46 Our leaders would rather subvert reality than deal with it.

So very wise.

Posted by: Rick Tingles at August 27, 2015 01:40 PM (PVcF3)

47 Yeah, Ace, but remember: Both sides do it!

The liberals will insist it's no worse than the Bush administration did with pre-Iraq-war intelligence. Those who know otherwise and give a damn will say no they didn't, and cite the Robb-Silberman commission report. The liberals will insist that anyone who does so is a pro-Bush hack. And the above-the-fray, pox-on-both-their-houses types will shake their heads at all the partisanship and say, They all do it.

I haven't read the comments to the earlier post yet, so my apologies if someone has made this point.
Posted by: JPS at August 27, 2015 01:38 PM (De4w2)

Ah yeah NO

The PC crap this Admin has pulled with the Military has send a message LOUD and CLEAR to the higher ups in the Pentagon and those who want to be higher ups, that it is my way or the Highway.

Posted by: Nevergiveup at August 27, 2015 01:40 PM (gf8BH)

48 That's gotta be metric.

Posted by: rickb223


You've got to hand it to him: he was telling the truth.

The amount of corruption is colossal, not just a smidgen.

Posted by: Moderate Salami, weeping for our dead Republic at August 27, 2015 01:40 PM (/Ho8c)

49 >>> As one who used to write many intel assessments, this is one of the areas where professional intelligence officers will fall on their swords over.

you mean they will... what? Unclear what you mean here. You mean they will sacrifice their careers to make sure the truth comes out?

Wish I could believe that.

Posted by: ace at August 27, 2015 01:40 PM (dciA+)

50 25 Steiner Jeb! will come.
Posted by: Grump928(C) at August 27, 2015 01:36 PM (rwI+c

snorts
i never get tired of the Hitler meltdowns.

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at August 27, 2015 01:40 PM (n6Nt0)

51
"Jeb! will come."

Maybe, but I am more upset that Trump was mean to sweet little Jorge Ramos. Mi amigo.

Posted by: Jeb Bush at August 27, 2015 01:40 PM (OD2ni)

52 I might be prudent to tear down the WH and start over again...

Posted by: zombie major-general robert ross at August 27, 2015 01:41 PM (pgzyN)

53 The next squirrel sighting is days of fawning coverage about Obama in New Orleans for Katrina 10th anniversary. I can't wait. Also, Mississippi will not be mentioned.

Posted by: Gouverneur Morris at August 27, 2015 01:41 PM (dQJCS)

54 I'm shocked! Shocked, I say!

How can this be happening in the most transparent administration evah!

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at August 27, 2015 01:41 PM (so+oy)

55 fgs , it's like Benghazi on steroids.

Look we saw all of those in charge lie and obfuscate about what went down in Benghazi and the reason it happened in the first place.

they went so low as to arrest an obscure video guy, then using their shock troops to fk with anyone that questioned the lies.

b.s

they are all responsible for the continuing Lies distortion of their Own inaction.

Posted by: willow at August 27, 2015 01:41 PM (nqBYe)

56 more in the latter though I still want some engagement and by engagement I mean large scale bombing
Posted by: ace at August 27, 2015 01:38 PM (dciA+)

Ha, okay, fair enough.

I just think it's an interesting topic, but maybe it's still 'too soon' to bring it up, since sensibilities are still... well, sensitive after that whole "lets be for a war, then tank it on purpose for political gain" move by the Dems from '04-'09.

Posted by: mynewhandle at August 27, 2015 01:41 PM (AkOaV)

57 >>more in the latter though I still want some engagement and by engagement I mean large scale bombing


Seconded.
ISIS kills all non-compliant citizens, so its not like there'd be a lot of collateral damage. I mean, it's not like we could mistakenly destroy some ancient historic site like Palmyra.

Posted by: Lizzy at August 27, 2015 01:42 PM (NOIQH)

58 Old Testament Biblical.Smiting God.

Posted by: The Great White Snark at August 27, 2015 01:42 PM (lGxTo)

59 SCoaMF is going to be as angry as the rest of us about this when he reads about it in the papers.

Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at August 27, 2015 01:42 PM (1CroS)

60 Nevergiveup, #47:

That's well put. And to be clear, I was regretting the false equivalence that will greet this even if it does get widely discussed.

Anyway, should have read the earlier thread - better commenters than me raised this point.

Posted by: JPS at August 27, 2015 01:42 PM (De4w2)

61 Totes JayVee.

Posted by: No Ways Tard at August 27, 2015 01:42 PM (oDCMR)

62 There shall be no bad news for the king. There shall be no bad news about the king.

Posted by: Soona at August 27, 2015 01:43 PM (P25Hh)

63 59 SCoaMF is going to be as angry as the rest of us about this when he reads about it in the papers.
Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at August 27, 2015 01:42 PM (1CroS)

He'll start an executive commission to find out whose ass to kick.

Posted by: Insomniac at August 27, 2015 01:43 PM (2Ojst)

64 Some asshole just asked Trump if he is bothered that KKK like groups are supporting him? What a bullshit question. Anyone ask Fredo if he ius upset that the Killer in VA supported him

Posted by: Nevergiveup at August 27, 2015 01:43 PM (gf8BH)

65 "It promotes growth and is very powerful!"

Posted by: Count de Monet at August 27, 2015 01:43 PM (JO9+V)

66 There are no conspiracies anymore.

You'll have to prove to me, hard, next time one pops up that it is not a conspiracy. These guys are the lowest of lows.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at Augus----

You can substitute the word consequence for conspiracies. It has the same amount of calories and less sodium

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at August 27, 2015 01:43 PM (n6Nt0)

67
"more in the latter though I still want some engagement and by engagement I mean large scale bombing"

I believe John Debyshire used to refer to that as a To hell with them hawk.

Posted by: Benji Carver at August 27, 2015 01:43 PM (OD2ni)

68 62 There shall be no bad news for the king. There shall be no bad news about the king.

And have You seen His new clothes!

Posted by: donna at August 27, 2015 01:43 PM (hUdMz)

69 Absolutely it is the WH that is putting the pressure on the brass just as they do with the media and any Democrat that dares to disagree with Hussein.

Why Hussein still has the approval ratings that he does is 1) Who in his base would ever read an article like this? and 2) Who of his base could ever comprehend the big words?

Posted by: Cheri at August 27, 2015 01:43 PM (oiNtH)

70
This just in:


The Pentagon IG and the White House jointly undertook self-investigation on this issue and have concluded that the charges are without merit.

Posted by: Vashta Nerada at August 27, 2015 01:44 PM (HJ9LB)

71 That's well put. And to be clear, I was regretting the false equivalence that will greet this even if it does get widely discussed.

Anyway, should have read the earlier thread - better commenters than me raised this point.
Posted by: JPS at August 27, 2015 01:42 PM (De4w2)

Gotcha

Posted by: Nevergiveup at August 27, 2015 01:44 PM (gf8BH)

72 That banhammer, Ace. May we borrow that?

Posted by: Pentagon IG at August 27, 2015 01:44 PM (Vf5rR)

73 Ace @ 49

That's exactly what I mean. I know many good men and women who have had to stand in the glare of their superiors and defend an assessment.
Many retired early.
Many were passed over for promotion.
None that I knew ever changed an assessment.

Posted by: Diogenes at August 27, 2015 01:44 PM (KE8QG)

74 The next squirrel sighting is days of fawning coverage about Obama in New Orleans for Katrina 10th anniversary

I'm mildly surprised Kohn et al aren't tsking over how rude it was for that Vester guy to take attention away from Ear Leader yesterday.

Posted by: HR braucht ein Bier at August 27, 2015 01:44 PM (/kI1Q)

75
The "MidEast fixed" vs. "bomb them into the Stone Age" dichotomy is as false and illiterate as any found in your typical Barrack Obama stump speech ("there are some who say we must confiscate all private property, and on the other side those who favor the return of chattel slavery"). But its prevalence now has crippled the US as much as the ascent of idiots and psychos into positions of power.

Posted by: rhomboid at August 27, 2015 01:44 PM (QDnY+)

76
What has any of this to do with Kim Kardashian's fat ass?

Posted by: Just asking for a friend at August 27, 2015 01:44 PM (nFhjK)

77 so will we have another congressional oversite thingie?

where everyone lies a bit of allowable truth slips out.
everyone nods to themselves while washing their hands of any responsibilty or we have guffaws when someone will say;' what does it matter Now!'

it fades away with thousands having died. Because nothing is more srs than possibly losing your pension or position

Posted by: willow at August 27, 2015 01:45 PM (nqBYe)

78 Yeah, well, we know Bill Keller would post video of fire ants chewing off his dork before he'd do anything adversely affecting President Chauncey Gardiner.

Posted by: JEM at August 27, 2015 01:45 PM (o+SC1)

79 I have rather different suspicions myself. I suspect that Obama's people are in fact the ones putting pressure on the brass, who in turn put pressure on the analysts, to report back to him that which he hath decreed must be the reality we believe in, so he can disseminate his faked up version of reality to Congress and the American public generally.

This. Definitely.

Posted by: Daybrother at August 27, 2015 01:45 PM (7jFI8)

80 If you have never been within the system, you cannot understand the insidious nature of the pressure exerted to tell the bosses EXACTLY what they want to hear.

Sure Boss! Women will be equal to Men in combat.... biology and psychology are both unimportant! It won't impact combat readiness! NOT ONE BIT! Really!!!!

And after 30+ years of this... they have changed both the Military, and Intelligence, cultures to one where if you buck the system? You are gone... and everyone knows it.

I will also add, that the President and his Administration has a HUGE impact on the Military...

I joined during Carter.... served through Reagan, Bush 1, and then Clinton... and the changes in attitude at the Deck Plate level was enormous... depending on who was President.

Posted by: BB Wolf at August 27, 2015 01:45 PM (qh617)

81 shows obummer intel photos of holes in ground in Syria from our overwhelming (/sarc) bombing campaign.

wow, he says, from this pic, it looks like the holes on a golf course. thanks guys for reminding me, time for another round.

Posted by: morigu at August 27, 2015 01:45 PM (BhYuI)

82 What has any of this to do with Kim Kardashian's fat ass?

You know She can balance a champagne glass on it!

Posted by: donna at August 27, 2015 01:45 PM (hUdMz)

83 Jinx. Double Post.

Posted by: Boss Moss at August 27, 2015 01:45 PM (DsveK)

84 Some asshole just asked Trump if he is bothered that KKK like groups are supporting him? What a bullshit question. Anyone ask Fredo if he ius upset that the Killer in VA supported him

Posted by: Nevergiveup

Even better, is Hussein upset that Iran, Cuba, Russia, et.al. supported/supports him?

Posted by: Cheri at August 27, 2015 01:45 PM (oiNtH)

85 You know, the more the media imbeciles attack Trump the stronger they make him. And they are too fucking stoopid to detect the obvious.

Posted by: maddogg at August 27, 2015 01:45 PM (xWW96)

86 64 Some asshole just asked Trump if he is bothered that KKK like groups are supporting him? What a bullshit question. Anyone ask Fredo if he ius upset that the Killer in VA supported him
Posted by: Nevergiveup at August 27, 2015 01:43 PM (gf8BH)


I wonder who Vester voted for for president. Suppose anybody will ask Obama how he feels?

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at August 27, 2015 01:45 PM (fJ5wU)

87 Wait a cotton collecting moment. Are you telling me that the DNC politicized intelligence? HOW CAN THAT BE THE DNC PROMISED ME THAT IF I VOTED FOR OBAMA POLITICIZED INTELLIGENCE WAS ONLY A RETHUGLICANS AND BUSHITLER AND DARTH CHENEY DIRTY TRICK! I feel so dirty and like a used paper towel after a bad night of Buffalo Wings. Oh dear god what have I done.

Posted by: Charles at August 27, 2015 01:45 PM (Yw+No)

88 Maybe we should hire Sri Lankan military to go in and root out ISIS.

Remember when they finally got sick and tired of the Tamil Tigers and went in and executed every single one of them to the last man.

It wasn't pretty, but it worked. No more Tamil Tigers (at least not as a fighting force anyway).

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at August 27, 2015 01:46 PM (oFCZn)

89 If you have never been within the system, you cannot understand the insidious nature of the pressure exerted to tell the bosses EXACTLY what they want to hear.

Sure Boss! Women will be equal to Men in combat.... biology and psychology are both unimportant! It won't impact combat readiness! NOT ONE BIT! Really!!!!

And after 30+ years of this... they have changed both the Military, and Intelligence, cultures to one where if you buck the system? You are gone... and everyone knows it.

I will also add, that the President and his Administration has a HUGE impact on the Military...

I joined during Carter.... served through Reagan, Bush 1, and then Clinton... and the changes in attitude at the Deck Plate level was enormous... depending on who was President.
Posted by: BB Wolf at August 27, 2015 01:45 PM (qh617)


BINGO--Exactly!

Posted by: Nevergiveup at August 27, 2015 01:46 PM (gf8BH)

90 From the musical

Barry Get Your Gun

(Barry Singing to W)

Anything you can do,
I can do worser.
I can do anything
Worser than you.

(both singing back and forth)

No, you can't.
Yes, I can. No, you can't.
Yes, I can. No, you can't.
Yes, I can,
YES I CAN!

Posted by: zombie at August 27, 2015 01:46 PM (jBuUi)

91 @75 - it's called 'suppression'.

You do whatever you want to each other, except for these people here that we've decided you're too inhuman to leave you in control of, and if you touch them then you'll need scientific notation to count your casualties.

Posted by: JEM at August 27, 2015 01:46 PM (o+SC1)

92 Is the Pentagon lie to the JEF or will the JEF lie about findings?

Posted by: Carol at August 27, 2015 01:47 PM (sj3Ax)

93 So based on the long list of other Obama administration whistleblower scandals which have been referred to an IG, here's what will happen next:

(1) Obama will contemptuously ignore the findings of the IG and/or illegally fire the IG.

(2) The whistleblowers will end up with their careers destroyed and possibly facing a ginned-up federal criminal prosecution in a kangaroo court for violating workplace "disclosure" rules.

(3) The Beltway Republican establishment will do precisely nothing about any of this.

Posted by: torquewrench at August 27, 2015 01:48 PM (noWW6)

94 Lying liars gotta lie. It's what they do.

Posted by: John Doh at August 27, 2015 01:48 PM (XApGT)

95 "...more in the latter though I still want some engagement and by engagement I mean large scale bombing"
Posted by: ace


I agree we should share more of our technology with them.

Posted by: Daybrother at August 27, 2015 01:48 PM (7jFI8)

96 It will be impossible to get rid of ISIS without large civilian casualties I think.

Of course, there are huge civilian casualties going on right now thanks to ISIS so...

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at August 27, 2015 01:48 PM (oFCZn)

97 See. This is why I let everyone intercept Top Secret material. I was enabling misinformation in order to sabotage enemy plans.

You're welcome.

Posted by: Hillary! at August 27, 2015 01:48 PM (1CroS)

98 Posted by: Diogenes at August 27, 2015 01:44 PM (KE8QG)


That's heartening.

Posted by: rhomboid at August 27, 2015 01:44 PM (QDnY+)

I always appreciate your commentary.

Posted by: Pentagon IG at August 27, 2015 01:48 PM (Vf5rR)

99 No JPS your comment is quite valuable. Even most of the high-information sorts around here rarely bother to look into the important issues. It's why I think there is no hope (well, one reason). Even the people in the US who are *not* the problem operate, most of the time, in the same false framework that the worst of the statist/anti-US/fascist types do.

Posted by: rhomboid at August 27, 2015 01:48 PM (QDnY+)

100 They are so fuckin interested in Trump's religion? Gee not so much with Fredo's?

Posted by: Nevergiveup at August 27, 2015 01:48 PM (gf8BH)

101 So basically I won't have to hear any more "Bush Manipulated Intel For Iraq War" any more from the Lefties, right?


Right?

Posted by: Burn the Witch at August 27, 2015 01:49 PM (Wckf4)

102 85 You know, the more the media imbeciles attack Trump the stronger they make him. And they are too fucking stoopid to detect the obvious.
Posted by: maddogg at August 27, 2015 01:45 PM (

I understand it is harder to obtain a Womans' Studies B.A. then it is a Journalism BA.

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at August 27, 2015 01:49 PM (n6Nt0)

103 Did they ever find Vince Foster's car keys?

Posted by: Boss Moss at August 27, 2015 01:49 PM (DsveK)

104 >>torquewrench

Yes, but first the WH will refuse to comment because "open investigation" followed by the Clinton favorite months later, it's "old news" or a "phony scandal".

Posted by: Lizzy at August 27, 2015 01:49 PM (NOIQH)

105 Trump talking to Ted Cruz about a combined Protest to the Iran Deal in DC ? Outstanding

Posted by: Nevergiveup at August 27, 2015 01:50 PM (gf8BH)

106 85 You know, the more the media imbeciles attack Trump the stronger they make him. And they are too fucking stoopid to detect the obvious.

Posted by: maddogg at August 27, 2015 01:45 PM


It seems more like they THINK there's a magic bullet that will bring him down if they can only find that bullet.

Hey Religion!! The knuckledraggers are bible thumpers so let's try that and see if it works!

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at August 27, 2015 01:50 PM (oFCZn)

107
One cannot train the population of the middle east to be peaceful and respect other cultures' values.

One can make the population of the middle east afraid of what will happen if they try to impinge on other cultures' values.

Posted by: Vashta Nerada at August 27, 2015 01:50 PM (HJ9LB)

108 torquewrench: "(3) The Beltway Republican establishment will do precisely nothing about any of this."

I demand a retraction, harumph!

Many tables will be pounded. Tables futures will skyrocket.

Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at August 27, 2015 01:50 PM (1CroS)

109 Days until Pentagon IG gets fired: 3

Posted by: blaster at August 27, 2015 01:50 PM (ZFt7y)

110 Scandal-free administration, boys. Scandal-free.
---------------

Not a smidgen.

Posted by: Are my lips moving? at August 27, 2015 01:51 PM (9mTYi)

111 @96 - If ISIS throws someone off a building, you wipe out the building and two or three blocks around it.

If ISIS is beheading people in a stadium, and you've got the intel to know it, you wipe out the stadium during the event. The victims are going to die anyway, you need to kill the fanbois in four, five, and six-figure numbers. You've got to make them more afraid of us than ISIS.



Posted by: JEM at August 27, 2015 01:51 PM (o+SC1)

112 75
The "MidEast fixed" vs. "bomb them into the Stone Age" dichotomy is as false and illiterate as any found in your typical Barrack Obama stump speech ("there are some who say we must confiscate all private property, and on the other side those who favor the return of chattel slavery"). But its prevalence now has crippled the US as much as the ascent of idiots and psychos into positions of power.
Posted by: rhomboid at August 27, 2015 01:44 PM (QDnY+)

Rhom, I'm not trying to start a flame war here, but i think that's a mischaracterization.

Look, even Reagan said "don't mistake our reluctance for war for a lack of resolve". We've never been a nation that thought we were some kind of big swinging dick going around the world trying to "civilize" them.

And yet... we've been trying that recently. And failing.

And we've been trying it in the one part of the world where no one else -- even the most experienced, cutthroat (in a good way), pro-imperialist powers in the world -- has been able to make it happen.

And it just seems beyond futile to me, and not only is it futile, but we're essentially HELPING the sunni jihadists by "paving the way for democracy" and killing their dictators.

The muslim world doesnt want Democracy (it's unIslamic) they want theocracies where the only law of the land is Sharia law (to put mans law above Allahs law is considered unIslamic, and makes one a 'kaffir').

So when we get rid of unpopular dictators, we're opening the door for the jihadi types.

I don't see how we change the situation "on the ground". I really don't.

Posted by: mynewhandle at August 27, 2015 01:51 PM (AkOaV)

113 102 You should try to get a Latin American Studies BA.

Posted by: Jeb! Bush at August 27, 2015 01:51 PM (DsveK)

114 I understand it is harder to obtain a Womans' Studies B.A. then it is a Journalism BA.
Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at August 27, 2015 01:49 PM (n6Nt0)


If it's anything like a Teaching degree a one armed masterbating chimp could pass it with a hangover.

Posted by: maddogg at August 27, 2015 01:51 PM (xWW96)

115 IMO you will find it is not the President who is putting on said pressure...

It is Susan Rice... the Nat Sec Advisor...

She has no intelligence OR Military background... and is trying to convince her boss to do things a certain way...

So only wants the information SHE wants to reach him.... to get to him...

Staff... is Policy.... but the Precedent is IMO being run by S. Rice and Val Jarret...

Posted by: BB Wolf at August 27, 2015 01:51 PM (qh617)

116 Trump talking to Ted Cruz about a combined Protest to the Iran Deal in DC ? Outstanding

Posted by: Nevergiveup

I would say not so much of a deal as it is rape. Anal rape. And we are the ones clutching our ankles.

Posted by: Cheri at August 27, 2015 01:52 PM (oiNtH)

117
Nice job you got there, General. Be a shame if something happened to it.

Posted by: ValJar at August 27, 2015 01:52 PM (9mTYi)

118 Some asshole just asked Trump if he is bothered that KKK like groups are
supporting him? What a bullshit question. Anyone ask Fredo if he ius
upset that the Killer in VA supported him



Posted by: Nevergiveup

Medved did this same crap with Ron Paul. He lost a listener. Not a Paul supporter, but that crap is ridiculous.

Posted by: rebel flounder at August 27, 2015 01:52 PM (Vf5rR)

119 There shall be no bad news for the king. There shall be no bad news about the king.

Don't nobody bring me no bad news! No bad news!

Posted by: The Wiz at August 27, 2015 01:53 PM (2lndx)

120 For some reason I have hope that once the JEF is officially out of the WH, then the leaks will start. Someone somewhere will leak a small thing that impugns Chicago Jesus and it will be ignored. Then there will be another. That too will be ignored. And so on. But the leaks will become steadier. And more detailed. And more damning.

More. And more. And more. And more.

There will be calls that this is old news, that there are those would besmirch the fearlessness of our former, exhalted, leader who, let us be honest for a moment, deserves to be the lone bust on Mount Rushmore (though to be fair is his head were in the middle, his ears are so big they'd take up all the rest of the space).

And so it goes, and nothing will be done about it. Zero.

UNLESS! An actual person, unlike the clownship Jeb! or even Trump, takes office and goes Soviet era purging through every last agency on the record books. I have no idea what Trump would do, but either him or someone else needs to clean house, Aegean Stables style. Flush everyone out, have the Muslim Brotherhood members arrested, and shut down the social justice warriors in the Justice Department. In short, fire every single person appointed or hired to any and all positions during the Obama years. Start there. Then, fire even more.

More reasons why I'll never be president.

Posted by: sans_sheriff at August 27, 2015 01:53 PM (dBAgi)

121 The JEF has been lying hiding the truth since he ran for office.
College records-Sealed. Everything is sealed.
LA Times video-hidden or lost.

Posted by: Carol at August 27, 2015 01:53 PM (sj3Ax)

122
To add to my point in the earlier thread about Team A/Team B Soviet assessments and *internal* intel community politicization, let's recall the Iran nuke NIE in Bush's second term.

Absurd, on its face. How many careers were derailed by authoring *that* particularly ridiculous - and consequential - bit on garbage?

This was the politicization of the intel community, primarily the Beltway mindset, primarily Agency and not DIA, from within.

One of the two key moments Dubya should have gone balls-out and said "enough". His people should have publicly taken apart the estimate - no need to use sensitive info, really - and announced reform of the intel community. Other key moment missed was when he decided to comply with the dangerous, outrageous, indefensible shredding of the Constitution by (surprise!) Kennedy in the Bush v. Hamdan ruling (wherein Kennedy literally pretended to believe that up = down, and usurped the treaty power in the bargain). One of the least noted and most disastrous SCOTUS excesses of all (which is saying something).

Posted by: rhomboid at August 27, 2015 01:54 PM (QDnY+)

123 >>If ISIS throws someone off a building, you wipe out the building and two or three blocks around it.

If ISIS is beheading people in a stadium, and you've got the intel to know it, you wipe out the stadium during the event.

THIS.
ISIS is live tweeting this shit and I bet they're providing locational info in their tweets from smartphones, etc. Can't believe they'd be hard to find.

Posted by: Lizzy at August 27, 2015 01:54 PM (NOIQH)

124 Is turns out that the Obama Administration IS the most transparent administration in history.

They transparently lie at every opportunity.

Posted by: zombie at August 27, 2015 01:55 PM (jBuUi)

125 TRUMP: I don't attach Cruz or Carson because they are nice to me..


Hey MEMO to the R Establishment...GET ON THE FUCKIN TRAIN

Posted by: Nevergiveup at August 27, 2015 01:55 PM (gf8BH)

126 Is turns out = It turns out

Posted by: zombie at August 27, 2015 01:55 PM (jBuUi)

127 I would say not so much of a deal as it is rape. Anal rape. And we are the ones clutching our ankles.
Posted by: Cheri
-----------------

The Musical will consist entirely of background ululation.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at August 27, 2015 01:55 PM (9mTYi)

128
What has any of this to do with Kim Kardashian's fat ass?
------------------------

I'd hit it....

Posted by: Hillary Clinton at August 27, 2015 01:55 PM (HSmrB)

129 There are multi-millions to be made for the first one who writes a tell-all book about the last 8 years of this farce. Of course, their life expectancy may not last long enough to spend those millions...

Posted by: Cheri at August 27, 2015 01:55 PM (oiNtH)

130 Oh, waiter! Garcon! Refill my wine glass! That's a good steward. Say, your outfit almost makes you look like a general or something. ahahahaha

Posted by: Val Jarrett at August 27, 2015 01:56 PM (JO9+V)

131 If it's anything like a Teaching degree a one armed masterbating chimp could pass it with a hangover.
Posted by: maddogg at August 27, 2015 01:51 PM (xWW96

Diet Pepsi washed monitor. Thanks maddogg

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at August 27, 2015 01:56 PM (n6Nt0)

132 I am sensing a pattern.

Isn't this similar to what happened with the Benghazi doctored intelligence reports citing a spontaneous protest over a video?

Posted by: rebel flounder at August 27, 2015 01:56 PM (Vf5rR)

133
Conservatives fear government
Liberals fear government when they're not in charge

Is that too long for a bumper sticker?

Posted by: Mega at August 27, 2015 01:56 PM (9Du4t)

134 Posted by: BB Wolf at August 27, 2015 01:51 PM (qh617)

The administration is so corrupt and so mal-administered. I wouldn't be surprised if it's the simplest explanation: the staff doesn't want to give the boss bad news.

Posted by: Hurricane LaFawnduh at August 27, 2015 01:57 PM (laMCB)

135 Conservatives fear government
Liberals fear government when they're not in charge

Is that too long for a bumper sticker?
Posted by: Mega at August 27, 2015 01:56 PM (9Du4t)

Not if you pin it on hillary's ass

Posted by: Nevergiveup at August 27, 2015 01:57 PM (gf8BH)

136 >>I don't see how we change the situation "on the ground". I really don't.

Visit the UAE. Is it Texas? No. But it is a fairly open and stable country right smack in the middle of a bunch of crazies. I've never, ever felt the least bit threatened there. And it is also very Islamic.

It can be done. It takes will.

Posted by: JackStraw at August 27, 2015 01:58 PM (OGm46)

137 Visit the UAE. Is it Texas? No. But it is a fairly open and stable country right smack in the middle of a bunch of crazies. I've never, ever felt the least bit threatened there. And it is also very Islamic.

It can be done. It takes will.

Posted by: JackStraw at August 27, 2015 01:58 PM (OGm46)


They had a female Islamist kill a foreigner in a bathroom.

They were all over that shit in a hurry.

Captured, tried, executed FAST.

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at August 27, 2015 01:59 PM (oFCZn)

138 Haven't some former TFG officials had books?
Mrs. Clinton just likened republicans to terrorists!

Posted by: Carol at August 27, 2015 01:59 PM (sj3Ax)

139 Simply put, I operate under one pretty reliable premise: the only part of the government that does its job effectively is the military. Every other piece of government you can name is ineffective, inefficient, expensive, and corrupt, but the American military is second to none, and can do its assigned mission of killing our opponents and smashing their toys and their backyard better than anyone on the planet.

If the Iraq War really had been about oil, we would have the oil. The Marines would have been sent in to secure the oilfields and establish a protected pipeline, and gas at the pump would be under a dollar a gallon here, because WE'D HAVE ALL THE FVCKING OIL.

Despite the damage done to our military with the REMFs (and I mean REMFs going all the way up to the Commander in Chief) gutting and politicizing our officer corps, playing their social engineering experiments with the troops, downsizing our floating Navy, and screwing around with dipshittery like the F-35, if we really wanted to put an end to ISIS, they'd already have been introduced to Allah by the thousands, and the rotting flesh of ISIS carcasses would have made parts of the Middle East uninhabitable for the stench of their corpses.

If American leadership were serious about dealing with ISIS, their name would already have been changed to WASWAS, because they would all already be dead, and every other upstart tinhorn dickwad over there would be afraid to make us ever have to come back again.

But that's just me, I guess.

Posted by: Qoheleth at August 27, 2015 01:59 PM (iIzG7)

140 Aegean stables?

Posted by: Hercules at August 27, 2015 02:00 PM (8ZskC)

141 Whoa.


One thing that the leftists forget is that there are a LOT of people in government who don't hate their own country.


Burn this fucking administration down and start with the indictments.

Posted by: prescient11 at August 27, 2015 02:01 PM (q5APL)

142 139................ But that's just me, I guess.
Posted by: Qoheleth at August 27, 2015 01:59 PM (iIzG7

^^This^^

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at August 27, 2015 02:01 PM (n6Nt0)

143 Anybody apologized to Lord Elgin or U of Chicago yet for the vicious accusations of 'cultural theft' in light of the Buddhas and Palmyra? How about Napoleon and the Rosetta Stone?

During the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood regime, even the smarmy head of archaeology was under fire.

I wonder if the UN Heritage sites can be saved at all.

Posted by: mustbequantum at August 27, 2015 02:01 PM (MIKMs)

144 Isn't this similar to what happened with the Benghazi doctored intelligence reports citing a spontaneous protest over a video?
Posted by: rebel
--------------

IRS
VA
'Stimulus'
Obamacare
F&F
EPA

...and much, much more.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at August 27, 2015 02:01 PM (9mTYi)

145 Visit the UAE. Is it Texas? No. But it is a fairly open and stable country right smack in the middle of a bunch of crazies. I've never, ever felt the least bit threatened there. And it is also very Islamic.

It can be done. It takes will.
Posted by: JackStraw at August 27, 2015 01:58 PM (OGm46)

We didn't do that. Massive oil wealth combined with brutal dictatorship and a small population that could be bought off with oil money did that.

Posted by: mynewhandle at August 27, 2015 02:01 PM (AkOaV)

146 >>They had a female Islamist kill a foreigner in a bathroom.

>>They were all over that shit in a hurry.

>>Captured, tried, executed FAST.


Yep. They have a very active anti-jihad movement in the UAE. They will find them and they will kill them.

Posted by: JackStraw at August 27, 2015 02:02 PM (OGm46)

147 >>>Analysts are required to cite the sources that back up their conclusions and to acknowledge differing viewpoints.

And do it in a civil way. Otherwise they will be banned.

Posted by: Bruce Boehner at August 27, 2015 02:03 PM (E5UB0)

148 Anybody else in NY catch the fighter jets tailing a larger aircraft around 11:30am over lower Manhattan and the Verrazano?

Posted by: Marcus T at August 27, 2015 02:04 PM (2adPJ)

149 I am sensing a pattern.

Isn't this similar to what happened with the Benghazi doctored intelligence reports citing a spontaneous protest over a video?
Posted by: rebel flounder


That's the problem with lies and corruption. Is this the typical Obama admin Leftist Mussolini tendency or is it something else? It could mean that next week they know 3 cities are going up in the Southwest but can't stop it and are setting the narrative now. We've been excluded and lied to so often that the new normal is to assume they are lying.

Posted by: Daybrother at August 27, 2015 02:04 PM (7jFI8)

150 UAE pays bribe money to keep the terrorist activity to a minimum.

Posted by: Vashta Nerada at August 27, 2015 02:04 PM (HJ9LB)

151 That's the problem with lies and corruption. Is this
the typical Obama admin Leftist Mussolini tendency or is it something
else? It could mean that next week they know 3 cities are going up in
the Southwest but can't stop it and are setting the narrative now. We've
been excluded and lied to so often that the new normal is to assume
they are lying.

Posted by: Daybrother at August 27, 2015 02:04 PM (7jFI

The gaslighting of America, as the left cheers on.

Posted by: rebel flounder at August 27, 2015 02:07 PM (Vf5rR)

152 >>We didn't do that. Massive oil wealth combined with brutal dictatorship and a small population that could be bought off with oil money did that.

Yea, we did and we are still doing it. Didn't require an intervention but our influence and the influence of the UK which has thousands of ex-pats living there, can be felt everywhere. Not every place requires bombs. We were more fortunate there because the territory was occupied by a couple powerful tribes that still run the place and were happy to deal with the west and not let the place become a copy of Saudi Arabia.

It is a highly westernized country in many ways and with the 2030 economic plan, which was largely written by western consultants, introduced and adopted by the Sheik it will become even more stable and westernized.

Posted by: JackStraw at August 27, 2015 02:07 PM (OGm46)

153
I'm reading about Lord Boothby. During the 30s when nazis would say Heil Hitler to him he wd respond, Heil Boothby.

Posted by: Bruce With a Wang! at August 27, 2015 02:08 PM (iQIUe)

154

2 dozen different scandals should have ended this presidency. If it hasn't happened by now, that says more about the press and the electorate than it does about President Historical First.


Posted by: GBruno at August 27, 2015 02:08 PM (u49WF)

155 Police remove gay pride rainbow flag from Nutless Fuck's apartment.

Yeah, that ain't going anywhere.

Posted by: RWC - Team BOHICA at August 27, 2015 02:08 PM (fWAjv)

156 Meanwhile, ISIS swarms locust-like across Syria, absorbing or eliminating various insurgency groups as it goes,and moves on Assad, who is holding out with the remnants of his army, its strength halved,in Damascus.

Spin that.

Posted by: troyriser at August 27, 2015 02:08 PM (XHR9b)

157 We've been excluded and lied to so often that the new normal is to assume they are lying.
Posted by: Daybrother at August 27, 2015 02:04 PM (7jFI

I always find the different lies on the same topic funny.
Posted by: Jon Lovitz

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at August 27, 2015 02:08 PM (n6Nt0)

158 Maybe he's trying to flood Europe with refugees to accelerate its demise. Is that his endgame? He's a malevolent fucker, that's for sure.

Posted by: Bruce Boehner at August 27, 2015 02:09 PM (E5UB0)

159 84 Some asshole just asked Trump if he is bothered that KKK like groups are supporting him? What a bullshit question. Anyone ask Fredo if he ius upset that the Killer in VA supported him

Posted by: Nevergiveup

- - - - -

The correct response would have been "I'm about as bothered as the President was when Black Panthers members stood outside polling stations".

Done.

Posted by: Community Organizer at August 27, 2015 02:10 PM (9VLhN)

160 It is a highly westernized country in many ways and with the 2030 economic plan, which was largely written by western consultants, introduced and adopted by the Sheik it will become even more stable and westernized.
Posted by: JackStraw at August 27, 2015 02:07 PM (OGm46)

yes, I'm sure their 15 year plan will work out as well as Stalin's 5 year plans.

The only reason that country exists as it does, like I said, is wild amounts of oil wealth combined with a small population.

That's not really replicable in most Muslim countries, and it probably won't hold true for the various city states in the UAE forever either.

Posted by: mynewhandle at August 27, 2015 02:10 PM (AkOaV)

161 Jack, let me put it this way -- do you think Dubai would remain Dubai if they ran out of oil tomorrow?

No, it would descend in to chaos like the rest of the Muslim world.

Posted by: mynewhandle at August 27, 2015 02:10 PM (AkOaV)

162
'handle, gotta run, but wrong wrong wrong (premises, I mean).

First, imperial powers were quite successful in most of their efforts, given the situation. That's why the MidEast was as (comparatively) organized/stable as it was up until the nationalist movements of the early 1960s (Nasser, Assad, et al). Even then - the basic geographic/political set-up endured.

Second, we're not trying to "remake" the area. We didn't "remake" Kuwait after 1991 - though in fact that whole episode led to reforms (none of which have destabilized things) from Jordan to the Gulf. If you are forced to intervene, for your own interests, you usually are then faced with the need for follow-up - but that can take all sorts of different forms.

We didn't nuke Hiroshima to give Japanese women the vote. We didn't level Germany to create what is there today. You do what you have to do - what you are FORCED to do, in your own interests - and then you make the best of what follows.

Not one element of today's Iraq was inevitable. Again, Greece, France, 1940s. Today's western Europe just didn't happen. You are completely wrong that we simply had to help sweep up the rubble - NONE of the mostly stable and friendly western European development after May '45 was auto-pilot or inevitable. As JackStraw noted, it required prolonged involvement.

Levels/styles of involvement vary greatly. We were pretty hands-off in South Korea, actually.

We have worked to support friendly (or useful) dictators etc. in the MidEast, successfully, for a long time. We have opposed others. We have taken out just one (Saddam) - which was a good call, but a judgement call - and was not done to transform Iraq, it was done to .... remove Saddam.

Assad the Lesser and Khaddafy/Qaddafi/Kadaffy/Qhadafi fell because .... their particular bailing-wire-and-bubble-gum polities fell apart, for their own reasons, without anyone else causing it. Our last-second intervention in Libya was stupid, mindless, as you'd expect from the current crew. It really is an outlier in terms of all our post-war ME history. But it probably didn't alter the course of events anyway.

And yes, absolutely, it is an Obamaesque false dichotomy cartoon to say we must either disengage or virtually annex/transform countries in the MidEast. We have been deeply, deeply involved, in widely varying ways, for a very long time, mostly successfully. We can do anything we want. But 99% of the laments and dissatisfaction with MidEast policy *is* operating in a false, cartoonish framework.

Posted by: rhomboid at August 27, 2015 02:11 PM (QDnY+)

163 >> I understand it is harder to obtain a Womans' Studies B.A. then it is a Journalism BA.
Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at August 27, 2015 01:49 PM (n6Nt0)

And both are easier to get than a box of free condoms.

Posted by: Sandra Fluke at August 27, 2015 02:11 PM (ROnPv)

164 I know ace is right that it is Obama's people pressuring the military to fudge the numbers.
However I'm also pretty damned positive we'll never be told that.
The military guys may as well just confess and commit hari kari now as they are definitely going to be the scapegoats here.

Posted by: Dancing Queen at August 27, 2015 02:11 PM (/B6Iw)

165 Yep. They have a very active anti-jihad movement in the UAE. They will find them and they will kill them.
Posted by: JackStraw at August 27, 2015 02:02 PM (OGm46)


---------------------


Can you take a Bible into the UAE?

Posted by: Soona at August 27, 2015 02:11 PM (P25Hh)

166 Posted by: rhomboid at August 27, 2015 02:11 PM (QDnY+)

alright, well I enjoyed the discussion. We'll have to agree to disagree.

Posted by: mynewhandle at August 27, 2015 02:12 PM (AkOaV)

167 >>yes, I'm sure their 15 year plan will work out as well as Stalin's 5 year plans.

No offense but you really don't know what you're talking about on this one. The whole point of that plan was to open up the UAE to more economic development and slowly wean the country off oil because they are smart enough to know that having a population of unproductive men in an Islamic country is inherently dangerous.

They are planning for the end of the oil boom and trying to build an infrastructure of business that will employ their people and sustain them when the oil is gone. It is a highly western, pro-growth and stability plan.

It has nothing to do with Stalin.

Posted by: JackStraw at August 27, 2015 02:14 PM (OGm46)

168 Posted by: rhomboid at August 27, 2015 02:11 PM (QDnY+)

I will say this though -- maybe it's because I'm a natural pessimist, but I just don't see how we change 1000 years of culture without
a) somehow killing off the religion of islam
b) somehow breaking up the tribes and tribal loyalties throughout the ME / N Africa.

Is it doable? I suppose, in the abstract, given enough time, money, will, and ability to be brutal a la the Japanese in WWII -- possibly.

Is it doable by America with out cultural, political, and military history and our aversion to empires and "nation building"? Eh...

Posted by: mynewhandle at August 27, 2015 02:14 PM (AkOaV)

169 Can you take a Bible into the UAE?

Posted by: Soona at August 27, 2015 02:11 PM (P25Hh)


The way things are going you won't be able to take one into the US.

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at August 27, 2015 02:15 PM (oFCZn)

170 159
84 Some asshole just asked Trump if he is bothered that KKK like groups
are supporting him? What a bullshit question. Anyone ask Fredo if he ius
upset that the Killer in VA supported him



Posted by: Nevergiveup



- - - - -



The correct response would have been "I'm about as bothered as the
President was when Black Panthers members stood outside polling
stations".



Done.

Posted by: Community Organizer at August 27, 2015 02:10 PM (9VLhN)

The correct response to any of these gotcha questions is, "Are you proud of yourself? While you want to play silly little games with your gotcha questions, Americans are struggling. Americans are tired of the political games and want to make America great again. Are you going to ask a serious question or waste another four years covering for the failures of Obama and the Democrat party."
That's a reusable FYNQ. Classy.

Posted by: rebel flounder at August 27, 2015 02:15 PM (Vf5rR)

171 When I was in school we had a lot of discussions about how to avoid groupthink in important decision making moments.

Clearly, the Obama administration did not learn any of these things. Or they don't care.

Posted by: Lea at August 27, 2015 02:15 PM (lIU4e)

172 They are planning for the end of the oil boom and trying to build an infrastructure of business that will employ their people and sustain them when the oil is gone. It is a highly western, pro-growth and stability plan.

It has nothing to do with Stalin.
Posted by: JackStraw at August 27, 2015 02:14 PM (OGm46)

I just am not a big fan of top-down economic plans that never seem to work as well as the central planners think it will.

But we shall see how it plays out.

Posted by: mynewhandle at August 27, 2015 02:15 PM (AkOaV)

173
Can you take a Bible into the UAE?

--

There is a district in Dubai that has various non-mahommedan churches, sponsored by the sheik. I believe it is the only nation in the region where one can attend a church. UAE is the Switzerland of the middle east - pretty much non partisan.

Posted by: Vashta Nerada at August 27, 2015 02:15 PM (HJ9LB)

174


This is a set up. The Isis plan was doomed to fail based on obamas demands


This is him prepping the military to go under the bus

Posted by: ThunderB at August 27, 2015 02:15 PM (zOTsN)

175 Meanwhile, ISIS swarms locust-like across Syria, absorbing or eliminating various insurgency groups as it goes,and moves on Assad, who is holding out with the remnants of his army, its strength halved,in Damascus.

Spin that.

Posted by: troyriser at August 27, 2015 02:08 PM (XHR9b)



Steiner is coming.

Posted by: Mikey NTH - Stay Aghast of Events at the Outrage Outlet! at August 27, 2015 02:16 PM (hLRSq)

176 All these investigation leave me wanting.

Posted by: dananjcon at August 27, 2015 02:17 PM (NpXoL)

177 This is a set up. The Isis plan was doomed to fail based on obamas demands


This is him prepping the military to go under the bus
Posted by: ThunderB at August 27, 2015 02:15 PM (zOTsN)

The ISIS plan failed, because like every other situation in the middle east, we can never answer the follow up question of "...and then what?"

Because overthrowing the dictator is the easy part. Figuring out what to do next is the part that no one has an answer to.

Posted by: mynewhandle at August 27, 2015 02:17 PM (AkOaV)

178 I know ace is right that it is Obama's people pressuring the military to fudge the numbers.

Of course! Our wise, benevolent, and blessedly merciful Head Ewok (pbuh) is always right, you know.

Far be it from me to suggest otherwise. Nay, even to intimate so.

Posted by: Moderate Salami, weeping for our dead Republic at August 27, 2015 02:17 PM (/Ho8c)

179 >>This is a set up. The Isis plan was doomed to fail based on obamas demands


IIRC, "just muscular enough to not be mocked."

Or was that an explanation of what Obama had us do in Libya? Or Iraq? or Afghanistan?

Posted by: Lizzy at August 27, 2015 02:18 PM (NOIQH)

180 Boehner called Cruz a jackass at a fundraiser yesterday.
That makes me like Cruz more.

Posted by: Carol at August 27, 2015 02:19 PM (sj3Ax)

181 176 All these investigation leave me wanting.
Posted by: dananjcon at August 27, 2015 02:17 PM (NpXoL

Pudding? What? Let's be specific.

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at August 27, 2015 02:19 PM (n6Nt0)

182

The ROE he demanded determined the outcome


The IG will find the DOD failed him


ISIS wins, we lose and Obama pretends he has clean hands

Posted by: ThunderB at August 27, 2015 02:19 PM (zOTsN)

183 IIRC, "just muscular enough to not be mocked."

Or was that an explanation of what Obama had us do in Libya? Or Iraq? or Afghanistan?
Posted by: Lizzy


No, that was the JEF's wedding night.

Posted by: Daybrother at August 27, 2015 02:19 PM (gVHY/)

184 We handle ISIS and Jihadi Islam by killing it. Vigorously. Which no one in this country that controls shit wants to do, or even talk about. It's cancer, you have to eradicate it.

Posted by: kraken at August 27, 2015 02:19 PM (m/2HS)

185 Rats, "just muscular enough to not be mocked."
was what we did in Syria.

Posted by: Lizzy at August 27, 2015 02:20 PM (NOIQH)

186
Same with the borders issues, etc. It's what being taught to an entire generation.

Is anyone really surprised that the big dogs at the Pentagon are afraid to tell Barky the truth? Be afraid or we'll burn your life down.

They couldn't stop the pullout from Iraq. Or the Iran deal (with the help of the GOPe). That about says it all.

Posted by: GBruno at August 27, 2015 02:20 PM (u49WF)

187 176 All these investigation leave me wanting.
Posted by: dananjcon at August 27, 2015 02:17 PM (NpXoL)

- - - -

Any other President with an (R) beside his name would have been done in a long, long time ago.

This guy is beyond teflon. He's superhydrophobic.

It's actually incredible.

Posted by: Community Organizer at August 27, 2015 02:20 PM (9VLhN)

188 Has anyone been banned yet today?

Posted by: logprof, now available on Kindle! at August 27, 2015 02:20 PM (vsbNu)

189 ABC News:

Hillary Clinton compared her Republican rivals' views on women's health issues to those of "terrorist groups" in a Cleveland speech today.

"Extreme views about women, we expect them from some of the terrorist groups, we expect that from people who don't want to live in the modern world, but it's a little hard to take coming from Republicans who want to be the president of the United States, yet they espouse out-of-date and out-of-touch policies," Clinton said.

Posted by: Bandersnatch at August 27, 2015 02:20 PM (JtwS4)

190 ***"Some asshole just asked Trump if he is bothered that KKK like groups are supporting him? What a bullshit question. Anyone ask Fredo if he ius upset that the Killer in VA supported him"***


My favorite turnaround on that is to point out how they feel that NAMBLA supports the Democrats.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at August 27, 2015 02:21 PM (Wckf4)

191 If American leadership were serious about dealing with ISIS, their name would already have been changed to WASWAS, because they would all already be dead, and every other upstart tinhorn dickwad over there would be afraid to make us ever have to come back again.

But that's just me, I guess.
Posted by: Qoheleth at August 27, 2015 01:59 PM (iIzG7)

Nope your 100% correct. The failure, is the failure of will of the Leadership in DC and how they have PC Brainwashed the American Public

Posted by: Nevergiveup at August 27, 2015 02:21 PM (gf8BH)

192
Boehner called Cruz a jackass at a fundraiser yesterday.

--

I'm kind of wondering what kind of person will write a check to Boehner after hearing him call a fellow party member (one who actually tries to do what he promised to do if elected) names.

Posted by: Vashta Nerada at August 27, 2015 02:21 PM (HJ9LB)

193 rhomboid, #122:

"let's recall the Iran nuke NIE in Bush's second term.

"Absurd, on its face."

I keep thinking of that one as this Iran deal moves forward. That is, I would have thought of it anyway, and then some supporters of the deal started pointing to it, amazingly to my mind, and saying, "You see? They halted their program!"

(Thanks for your #99.)

Posted by: JPS at August 27, 2015 02:21 PM (De4w2)

194 Did they hire Cheney?

Posted by: Jean at August 27, 2015 02:21 PM (ztOda)

195 Has anyone been banned yet today?
Posted by: logprof, now available on Kindle! at August 27, 2015 02:20 PM (vsbNu)

Well ya know what they say: If you have to ask?

Posted by: Nevergiveup at August 27, 2015 02:22 PM (gf8BH)

196 The difference between the military and civilian federal workers is that if you fuck up in the military, you get punished. Often times much harder than you would on the outside.

This is why the military isn't generally a pack of incompetent assbags (yes, I know, there are other reasons too, but bear with me). There are consequences for your actions. It doesn't take all that big a screwup to get a 45/45, and that keeps you honest.

If there's no accountability, and no punishment, the "corporate culture" will turn to shit, and you'll produce nothing but more shit.

Posted by: Chupacabras at August 27, 2015 02:22 PM (kZVsz)

197
176 All these investigation leave me wanting.

Posted by: dananjcon at August 27, 2015 02:17 PM (NpXoL



Pudding? What? Let's be specific.

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at August 27, 2015 02:19 PM (n6Nt0)
**

Pudding and heads on a platter...but mostly heads on a platter.


Posted by: dananjcon at August 27, 2015 02:22 PM (NpXoL)

198 Boehner called Cruz a jackass at a fundraiser yesterday.


And Trump call Cruz nice things today.

See a pattern here?

Posted by: Nevergiveup at August 27, 2015 02:22 PM (gf8BH)

199 "Because overthrowing the dictator is the easy part. Figuring out what to do next is the part that no one has an answer to."

I think this is because of our weird modern ideological focus. It is blatantly out of step with how the rest of the world works on the ground and operating with any realism would be outside our kooky moral bounds. Our ideology locks us into doing things that can't possibly work, but we can't accept that they won't work because it would discredit the Universalism of our values.

Posted by: Not Mitt Romney at August 27, 2015 02:23 PM (TULs6)

200 185 Rats, "just muscular enough to not be mocked."
was what we did in Syria.
Posted by: Lizzy at August 27, 2015 02:20

drawing artificial red lines is muscular?
I must have grew up in a different time.

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at August 27, 2015 02:23 PM (n6Nt0)

201 189 ABC News:

Hillary Clinton compared her Republican rivals' views on women's health issues to those of "terrorist groups" in a Cleveland speech today.

"Extreme views about women, we expect them from some of the terrorist groups, we expect that from people who don't want to live in the modern world, but it's a little hard to take coming from Republicans who want to be the president of the United States, yet they espouse out-of-date and out-of-touch policies," Clinton said.
Posted by: Bandersnatch at August 27, 2015 02:20 PM (JtwS4)

- - - - - -

The woman is evil and insane.

Posted by: Community Organizer at August 27, 2015 02:23 PM (9VLhN)

202 >>I just am not a big fan of top-down economic plans that never seem to work as well as the central planners think it will.

That's not what it really is, more of a framework for growth and encouragement for companies to set up for business there. They tried to get my company to open a manufacturing operation there and made it pretty damn attractive. In many ways, easier to do business there than here.

Hey, no place over there is ever going to look like your average NE town meeting but all things considered, I would sleep a hell of a lot easier if the entire middle east looked like the UAE.

Posted by: JackStraw at August 27, 2015 02:23 PM (OGm46)

203 well regardless of whether the Obama Administration is putting pressure on the Defense Department is still to be faulted for supplying massaged data.
Islam is strongly anti abortion, of course in Israel the abortion rate is higher than here

Posted by: righter at August 27, 2015 02:23 PM (M0JAU)

204
Not if you pin it on hillary's ass

Posted by: Nevergiveup at August 27, 2015 01:57 PM (gf8BH)

----------------------

Shut your whore mouth....

Posted by: Hillary Clinton at August 27, 2015 02:23 PM (HSmrB)

205 CNN to choose the candidates for the next debate with an average of the last 100 polls, But Calvin Coolidge is unsure if he can attend

Posted by: Nevergiveup at August 27, 2015 02:24 PM (gf8BH)

206 Pudding and heads on a platter...but mostly heads on a platter.


Posted by: dananjcon at August 27, 2015 02:22 PM (NpXoL)

Yay!! That's what I was looking for.

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at August 27, 2015 02:24 PM (n6Nt0)

207 And dammit, now I want some pudding.

Posted by: Chupacabras at August 27, 2015 02:24 PM (kZVsz)

208 No, no. Uhh. You must um have ah mi-misunderstood. You see, just give me a second here.. I ah said *sandle* free administration (half-grins). Sandle-free. Yah. (Cocks head up.) So i could see how you made that mistake.

Posted by: Teh Uno at August 27, 2015 02:25 PM (JIJNV)

209 Hey, no place over there is ever going to look like your average NE town meeting but all things considered, I would sleep a hell of a lot easier if the entire middle east looked like the UAE.
Posted by: JackStraw at August 27, 2015 02:23 PM (OGm46)

Hey, no arguments from me.

I just don't see a path to making that happen when you look at the polling data in the muslim world and realize that large majorities in most Muslim countries (including 90%+ in Iraq) favor making Sharia the law of the land, and the only law of the land.

We had a decent set up when we had brutal dictators running most of the show. The left in this country (and even Bush) screamed about bringing "democracy" to the ME.

Well, it's there. This is what popular will and popular opinion looks like in that part of the world.

Posted by: mynewhandle at August 27, 2015 02:26 PM (AkOaV)

210 Vashta Nerada: "I'm kind of wondering what kind of person will write a check to Boehner after hearing him call a fellow party member (one who actually tries to do what he promised to do if elected) names."

The very ones who give Boehner money already: CoC types who find a smaller-gov type threatening to their monopoly.

Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at August 27, 2015 02:26 PM (1CroS)

211 It's pretty hysterical that Miss Lindsey or Jeb think they have a ghost of a chance.

Posted by: Nevergiveup at August 27, 2015 02:26 PM (gf8BH)

212 Our wise, benevolent, and blessedly merciful Head Ewok (pbuh) is always right, you know.


Yes, yes praise be his name!

Posted by: wrg500 at August 27, 2015 02:26 PM (C278+)

213 There needs to be an investigation as to why Reich-wing military elements would lie to our historic first multiracial President. I can only hope that President Sanders is more ruthless at weeding out counterrevolutionary elements and antiprogressive traitors who work against the Party's goals.

Posted by: Mary Cloggenstein from Brattleboro, VT at August 27, 2015 02:26 PM (yfUzb)

214 211 It's pretty hysterical that Miss Lindsey or Jeb think they have a ghost of a chance.
Posted by: Nevergiveup at August 27, 2015 02:26 PM (gf8BH)

I'm very encouraged that both of them are tanking in the polls.

Posted by: mynewhandle at August 27, 2015 02:27 PM (AkOaV)

215 The UAE understands what even the most junior of street pushers knows: peace equals profits.

Posted by: Chupacabras at August 27, 2015 02:27 PM (kZVsz)

216
Shut your whore mouth....

Posted by: Hillary Clinton at August 27, 2015 02:23 PM (HSmrB)

I think they were talking about me.

Posted by: The Big He at August 27, 2015 02:27 PM (JIJNV)

217 212 Our wise, benevolent, and blessedly merciful Head Ewok (pbuh) is always right, you know.


Yes, yes praise be his name!
Posted by: wrg500 at August 27, 2015 02:26 PM (C278+)

peace be upon him. He is the wisest of the wise.

It is known.

Posted by: mynewhandle at August 27, 2015 02:27 PM (AkOaV)

218 Rush earlier today cited a Quinnipiac poll that had Trump performing best vs. CLinton, with No. 2 being . . . Dr. Carson (?!) . . . Are you reading the tea leaves, milquetoast Establishment GOP?

Posted by: logprof, now available on Kindle! at August 27, 2015 02:28 PM (vsbNu)

219 >>Boehner called Cruz a jackass at a fundraiser yesterday.

Your GD right I did. Fucker cut in line in front of me at the bar.

*hic*

Posted by: John Boehner at August 27, 2015 02:28 PM (ROnPv)

220 Never hear much about the UAE, or even think about them. Which, to a limited personage entity thing like me, seems like a good thing. Now Syria, Iran, Iraq, North Korea.... yeah, they're on my mind.

Posted by: kraken at August 27, 2015 02:28 PM (m/2HS)

221 180
Boehner called Cruz a jackass at a fundraiser yesterday.

That makes me like Cruz more.



Posted by: Carol at August 27, 2015 02:19 PM (sj3Ax)

Ban him, Ace!

Posted by: rebel flounder at August 27, 2015 02:28 PM (Vf5rR)

222
This guy is beyond teflon. He's superhydrophobic.

It's actually incredible.
Posted by: Community Organizer at August 27, 2015 02:20 PM (9

Not only that he is super-duper waterproof

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at August 27, 2015 02:28 PM (n6Nt0)

223 >>>>It will be impossible to get rid of ISIS without large civilian casualties I think.



Of course, there are huge civilian casualties going on right now thanks to ISIS so...
.
.
.Yep and the MSM will make double darn sure that any civilian casualties are magnified on an hourly basis.

Posted by: The Great White Scotsman at August 27, 2015 02:28 PM (iONHu)

224 Nevergiveup,
Yes, I see the pattern there.
I didn't hear Trump said nice things about Cruz.

Posted by: Carol at August 27, 2015 02:28 PM (sj3Ax)

225 I'm kind of wondering what kind of person will write a check to Boehner after hearing him call a fellow party member (one who actually tries to do what he promised to do if elected) names.
Posted by: Vashta Nerada at August 27, 2015 02:21 PM (HJ9LB)


------------------


That's easy. The very same people that voted for him. OH is not a friend to conservatives

Posted by: Soona at August 27, 2015 02:28 PM (P25Hh)

226 Ban him, Ace!
Posted by: rebel flounder at August 27, 2015 02:28 PM (Vf5rR)

Chuckles

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at August 27, 2015 02:28 PM (n6Nt0)

227 >>>If that process becomes politicized, then the whole intelligence genre is jeopardized.


the shadow warriors have achieved success.

Posted by: north and judd at August 27, 2015 02:29 PM (0z/89)

228
>>>>If there's no accountability, and no punishment, the "corporate culture" will turn to shit, and you'll produce nothing but more shit.
Posted by: Chupacabras at August 27, 2015 02:22 PM


Welcome to the Soviet Union, American progressive style.

Posted by: GBruno at August 27, 2015 02:30 PM (u49WF)

229 Oh yeah -- Obama is behind it. Foregone conclusions and all that, he's good at twisting and inverting facts. Look at his Iran 'deal'. He doesn't want anyone to claim he's responsible for starting a war with Iran, but he knows full well there will be one soon, deal or no deal. Israel will wait until he is out of office, then have to blow Iran to hell and gone to stop them, and will have to use nukes to do it, which will drag us all into another war. His 'deal' with Iran guarantees it. I think, based on all the other sneaky shit he does, that he's deliberately staging that up.

Posted by: starboardhelm at August 27, 2015 02:30 PM (hOtJL)

230 >>drawing artificial red lines is muscular?
I must have grew up in a different time.

It was in reference to airstrikes on Assad in August, 2013...two years later ISIS has moved in. And they mock America daily on social media for being such pussies.

One U.S. official who has been briefed on the options on Syria said he believed the White House would seek a level of intensity "just muscular enough not to get mocked" but not so devastating that it would prompt a response from Syrian allies Iran and Russia...

Posted by: Lizzy at August 27, 2015 02:30 PM (NOIQH)

231 148
Anybody else in NY catch the fighter jets tailing a larger aircraft around 11:30am over lower Manhattan and the Verrazano?

Posted by: Marcus T at August 27, 2015 02:04 PM (2adPJ)

Was it AF 1?

Posted by: BignJames at August 27, 2015 02:31 PM (HtUkt)

232 Extreme views about women, we expect them from some of the terrorist
groups, we expect that from people who don't want to live in the modern
world
-----------------------------------------------

Remember when "palling around with terrorists" was inflammatory and extreme? Oh that's right, it hadn't been said by someone with a "(D)". Carry on.

Posted by: Ronald Raven at August 27, 2015 02:31 PM (9Du4t)

233 Basically, if the military were run like the civilian federal agencies, every unit would be run by Sgt. Bilko.

Posted by: Chupacabras at August 27, 2015 02:31 PM (CGjum)

234 214 211 It's pretty hysterical that Miss Lindsey or Jeb think they have a ghost of a chance.
Posted by: Nevergiveup at August 27, 2015 02:26 PM (gf8BH)

I'm very encouraged that both of them are tanking in the polls.
Posted by: mynewhandle at August 27, 2015 02:27 PM (AkOaV)

Sundance over at Conservative Treehouse attributes it to the RNC Splitter Strategy. They are candidates meant to draw support from key states from non-establishment candidates at the convention so a GOPe candidate can win with much less than majority support. Jeb was supposed to be the beneficiary.

Posted by: First-Rate Political Hack at August 27, 2015 02:31 PM (JIJNV)

235 Rush earlier today cited a Quinnipiac poll that had
Trump performing best vs. CLinton, with No. 2 being . . . Dr. Carson
(?!) . . . Are you reading the tea leaves, milquetoast Establishment
GOP?

Posted by: logprof, now available on Kindle! at August 27, 2015 02:28 PM (vsbNu)

***
Breaking news.....Frank Luntz see running naked down K-Street with a microphone up his ass...fill at 11:00!!


Posted by: dananjcon at August 27, 2015 02:31 PM (NpXoL)

236 And what does Hillary mean terrorists "don't want to live in the modern world"? They watch youtube videos, don't they?

Posted by: Ronald Raven at August 27, 2015 02:32 PM (9Du4t)

237 ... with No. 2 being . . . Dr. Carson (?!) . . .

I saw a car yesterday with a NRA "Stand & Fight" bumper sticker...right next to a "Ben Carson 2016" sticker.

*facepalm*

Posted by: AltonJackson at August 27, 2015 02:32 PM (ZQfW9)

238 I'm kind of wondering what kind of person will write a check to Boehner after hearing him call a fellow party member (one who actually tries to do what he promised to do if elected) names.
Posted by: Vashta Nerada at August 27, 2015 02:21 PM (HJ9LB)


Why, a guy who knows that he and his pals run the GOPe, that kind.

Posted by: Hurricane LaFawnduh at August 27, 2015 02:32 PM (laMCB)

239 Posted by: wrg500 at August 27, 2015 02:26 PM (C278+)

Were you the guy with the Perry emoticons? If so, Trump ones are in order.

Posted by: rebel flounder at August 27, 2015 02:33 PM (Vf5rR)

240 Did I say free community college for everyone?

I misspoke. I meant free community college for everyone, and government-guaranteed home loans for everyone!

Posted by: El Gobernador Jeb Bush at August 27, 2015 02:33 PM (8ZskC)

241 @Alton

"We" have our share of LiV's, too.

Posted by: Chupacabras at August 27, 2015 02:33 PM (CGjum)

242 Democratic guy on FOX is knocking Trump. That's a good sign

Posted by: Nevergiveup at August 27, 2015 02:33 PM (gf8BH)

243

"just muscular enough not to get mocked"

What other administration in history has made a virtue of doing only enough to avoid ridicule (and thereby guaranteeing it)?

Posted by: imp at August 27, 2015 02:33 PM (XIXZz)

244 Well, it's there. This is what popular will and popular opinion looks like in that part of the world.

Posted by: mynewhandle at August 27, 2015 02:26 PM (AkOaV)


Yup... our strategery was flawed...

We should not be pushing Democracy on the Middle East... we should be pushing a US style Bill of Rights on the middle east...

With Democracy, the majority will vote in Sharia law, which takes away freedom.... even the Freedom NOT to submit to Sharia Law...

Posted by: BB Wolf at August 27, 2015 02:33 PM (qh617)

245 And tiny American flags!

Posted by: Kodos at August 27, 2015 02:34 PM (CGjum)

246 when you look at the polling data in the muslim world and realize that
large majorities in most Muslim countries (including 90%+ in Iraq) favor
making Sharia the law of the land, and the only law of the land.


Oh hell, polls of Muslims living here favor making Sharia the law of the land.
http://is.gd/6RfHuu

But Curt Schilling is an extremist who must be barred from polite society.

Posted by: HR braucht ein Bier at August 27, 2015 02:34 PM (/kI1Q)

247 Welcome to the Soviet Union, American progressive style.



Posted by: GBruno at August 27, 2015 02:30 PM (u49WF)


And the Progressive dream will end the same way: a bunch of old ditherers sitting around wondering what to do as people flip them off and throw rocks at them.

Posted by: Mikey NTH - Stay Aghast of Events at the Outrage Outlet! at August 27, 2015 02:34 PM (hLRSq)

248 I saw a car yesterday with a NRA "Stand & Fight" bumper sticker...right next to a "Ben Carson 2016" sticker.

*facepalm*
Posted by: AltonJackson at August 27, 2015 02:32 PM
(ZQfW9)

We are the in the post-information age. Never mind that your candidate is wobbly on the 2A. It's how I feeeeeeeeeelll about him/her.

Posted by: Hurricane LaFawnduh at August 27, 2015 02:35 PM (laMCB)

249
What other administration in history has made a virtue of doing only enough to avoid ridicule (and thereby guaranteeing it)?

--

You aren't old enough to have seen the seventies, huh?

Posted by: Vashta Nerada at August 27, 2015 02:35 PM (HJ9LB)

250 Are you reading the tea leaves, milquetoast Establishment GOP?

Posted by: logprof, now available on Kindle! at August 27, 2015 02:28 PM (vsbNu)

If only we had things, maybe attached to our bodies in some fashion, that would let in patterns of sound pressure and reflected light, such that other beings that we would like to encourage to vote for us could transmit information or data about their concerns and desires.
*oh well*


Posted by: GOPe at August 27, 2015 02:35 PM (Vf5rR)

251 Were you the guy with the Perry emoticons? If so, Trump ones are in order.


Posted by: rebel flounder

May you camel be infested with a thousand flies! Infidel!

Posted by: wrg500 at August 27, 2015 02:35 PM (C278+)

252 >>>>It was in reference to airstrikes on Assad in August, 2013...two years later ISIS has moved in. And they mock America daily on social media for being such pussies
-----

Hey Lizzy thanks for the clarification for your dumbbell here. Oh did I get myself banned? Hope not

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at August 27, 2015 02:37 PM (n6Nt0)

253 AltonJackson: I saw a car yesterday with a NRA "Stand & Fight" bumper sticker...right next to a "Ben Carson 2016" sticker.

*facepalm*


Yeah, Carson is still in the evolving phase. Highly intelligent but not enough foundation yet for the highest office.

Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at August 27, 2015 02:38 PM (1CroS)

254
But Curt Schilling is an extremist who must be barred from polite society.

Posted by: HR braucht ein Bier at August 27, 2015 02:34 PM (/

White
Winner
Conservative.

Do you think Harold Reynolds would have been treated the same as Kurt? Nope, I didn't think so.

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at August 27, 2015 02:38 PM (n6Nt0)

255 What other administration in history has made a virtue of doing only enough to avoid ridicule (and thereby guaranteeing it)?

Posted by: imp at August 27, 2015 02:33 PM (XIXZz)

lol. It's President Lumbergh.


Posted by: rebel flounder at August 27, 2015 02:40 PM (Vf5rR)

256 We might as well elect Dilbert.

At least I can chuckle at that and relate on occassion.

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at August 27, 2015 02:41 PM (n6Nt0)

257 Yeah, Carson is still in the evolving phase. Highly intelligent but not enough foundation yet for the highest office.


Yep. He has to spend more time outside the east coast. Those automatic assumptions are deadly -- to all of us.

Posted by: mustbequantum at August 27, 2015 02:41 PM (MIKMs)

258

>>>>And the Progressive dream will end the same way: a bunch of old ditherers sitting around wondering what to do as people flip them off and throw rocks at them.
Posted by: Mikey NTH - Stay Aghast of Events at the Outrage Outlet! at August 27, 2015 02:34 PM

No doubt. Unfortunately, listening to the left in the meantime makes my ears bleed. And the casualties on the conservative side seem to be mounting to a breathtaking scale.

Posted by: GBruno at August 27, 2015 02:42 PM (u49WF)

259 On a side note, ISIS is actually doing pretty poorly at the moment against everyone but Assad (well, and everyone in Libya). They've recently expanded against him in Palmyra and towards Damascus and the Druze areas in Suwadya and the Jordanian border.

In the northwest of Syria they are locked in stalemate with Al Quaeda and the FSA rebels, in the northeast they are getting their asses kicked by Syrian Kurds. In Iraq it's hard to say but it looks like they're having a real hard time. They look to be losing Baji and possibly Ramadi. The only thing saving them from the Kurds is the Iraqi Kurds already have all the Kurdish lands and don't really want the rest.

The best place I have found for keeping tabs on the wars is actually Wikipedia. Most all the news you get from the MSM comes courtesy of there or the British Syrian Human Rights Observatory (which I think is responsible for most of the content on Wiki as well). If you're following the wiki you'll probably know everything the journalists report before they report it since they just recycle it when they think it rises to the level of sensationalism they need to be newsworthy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syrian_Civil_War
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_War_%282014%E2%80%93present%29
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yemeni_Civil_War_%282015%29
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libyan_Civil_War_%282014%E2%80%93present%29

Posted by: Not Mitt Romney at August 27, 2015 02:44 PM (TULs6)

260 imp: "What other administration in history has made a virtue of doing only enough to avoid ridicule (and thereby guaranteeing it)?"

Nurse: Mr. America is bleeding out. What do you want to do, Dr.?

Dr. SCoaMF: Is he bleeding out of the mouth, too? Do we have transfusions ready?

Nurse: No, and we'll get right on that.

Dr. SCoaMF: Then everything's fine. Just hold what you got.

Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at August 27, 2015 02:46 PM (1CroS)

261 obama declares that perpetual motion development is on the brink of a major break though and stop staring at his neked body.

Posted by: Buffalbob at August 27, 2015 02:49 PM (nIzfh)

262 Just put a comment into Politico for Rich and his complete and total elision of why the GOP is sucking and Trump is approaching 50%.

At this rate Trump will have the nomination sewed up before Christmas.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That at August 27, 2015 02:50 PM (x3GpS)

263 >>What other administration in history has made a virtue of doing only enough to avoid ridicule (and thereby guaranteeing it)?

The self-absorption of the statement is staggering, eh?

Not about stopping a tyrant or saving people, it's about making them looking effective - not BEING effective - just looking that way.

Posted by: Lizzy at August 27, 2015 02:50 PM (NOIQH)

264 "And they mock America daily on social media for being such pussies "

Best ISIS trolling of America ever:

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/isis-tweet-mocks-michelle-obama-over-stolen-us-army-humvees-1453524

That one made me laugh at ourselves...

Posted by: Not Mitt Romney at August 27, 2015 02:52 PM (TULs6)

265 Carson is still a brain surgeon. They're approach is deliberative and cautious (for good fcuking reason) and bombast and ruckus are not their normal mode of communication.

He is thus very boring for millenials and anyone else who's jittering like a 3 year old on sugar puffs.

Ben; Get loud, get proud. I think he's just in it for the prestige of running and to show the country that not all smart Black politicians are communist/socialist crypto muslims who hate America. And bravo to him for doing so.

Presdential candidate? No sorry, no fire.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That at August 27, 2015 02:54 PM (x3GpS)

266 est ISIS trolling of America ever:



http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/isis-tweet-mocks-michelle-obama-over-stolen-us-army-humvees-1453524



That one made me laugh at ourselves...

Posted by: Not Mitt Romney


OMG, that's hysterical.

Posted by: Moderate Salami, weeping for our dead Republic at August 27, 2015 02:55 PM (/Ho8c)

267 ***"Some asshole just asked Trump if he is bothered that KKK like groups are supporting him?

He could always say "I think it's interesting that I am appealing to Democrats" Next!

Posted by: gapoz at August 27, 2015 02:56 PM (thyJJ)

268 Diogenes@ 73 - This.

I had an intel guy that worked for me in another world that resigned his commission rather than play games as demanded. Ponder that - an O-3E who could easily made O-4 resigned his commission vs. retire because of the reindeer games demanded of him.

I told him that this is what folks must have felt like in the late 30s in the run-up to WWII and he just slowly shook his head. We then toasted with some single malt and killed our glasses.

I fear for my grandchildren... and his children...

Posted by: Al Shabbah at August 27, 2015 03:12 PM (C4cQf)

269 He hath decreed reality.
Son, no one has spoken that fact so beautifully. My eyes and brain are evermore grateful.

Posted by: Hammerin' Hal at August 27, 2015 04:00 PM (7DzyD)

270 WMDs !!! OMG they are gonna kill us all
It was only a matter of time before the radical right would start attacking the military for supporting obama
#264 you should head on over to Iraq and fight ISIS yourself. Stop waiting for someone else (Obama) to tell other people (U>S> military) to do what you think should be done
bell that damn cat yourself

Posted by: righter at August 27, 2015 04:24 PM (xpmPK)

271 IG probe or White Wash...Hmmmm

Posted by: Rob in Katy at August 27, 2015 04:25 PM (uaYXs)

272 no really I think we have reached that fabled tipping point with ISIS
These latest ISIS victories just show how desperate they are
My answer is bring 'em on

THE FIRST VICTIM IN ANY WAR IS TRUTH

Posted by: righter at August 27, 2015 04:31 PM (xpmPK)

273 In a tableau reminiscent of LBJ picking bombing targets in North Vietnam, a small number of Army officers at CENTCOM back in Tampa are picking targets for the Air Force to go after. They're not asking the Air Force what might the better use of airpower. The result is a bombing campaign that often seems to be simply what the artillery guys call "harassment interdiction fires."

Posted by: TiredOld at August 27, 2015 08:56 PM (v5uOx)

274 The phenomenon of a government lying to itself by means of lower level bureaucrats submitting reports based on the leaders' expectations has heretofore been a primaryfeature of totalitarian regimes. Examples include military orders of battlein 1944-45 Nazi Germany, and agricultural and industrial production forecasts in the Soviet Union.
This is yet another aspect of the "fundamental transformation" of America wrought byour god-emperor.

Posted by: David at August 28, 2015 06:56 PM (SO2HP)

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