Boy Scouts Votes To End Ban On Gay Leaders

This has been a long time coming. Boy Scouts has faced increasing pressure from businesses and municipalities to drop the ban.

The historic vote shifts the specter of discrimination onto local scout groups and those sponsored by religious organizations, which retain the right to set their own policies on whether they'll allow gay men to lead scouts.
Monday's vote by the group's 71-member board followed an impassioned plea in May by the Boy Scouts President Robert Gates, a former U.S. defense secretary, who told the group, "We must deal with the world as it is, not as we might wish it to be." Gates, an Eagle Scout, told leaders, "The status quo in our movement's membership standards cannot be sustained."

This was inevitable after the Scouts dropped the ban on gay scouts back in 2013. The idea that the organization was fine with gays until they turn 18 and then kick them to the curb was never going to fly for long. After that decision, some troops switched from Boy Scouts to different youth organizations. After this decision, the Mormons are exploring the possibility of creating their own Scouts-like organization and take them at their word: troops will bail on the Scouts over this.

The board says the decision whether to allow gay leaders will be left to individual troops, but I don't think that will be very successful. This decision blows a giant hole in the rationale Justice Rehnquist used in BSA v. Dale to allow the Scouts to exclude gays.

Rehnquist rested his decision on the notion that, although they are considered a public accommodation, Boy Scouts has a right to expressive association. Part of that expression was the belief that homosexuals should not be role models and that gays can therefore be excluded from the organization, despite public accommodation anti-discrimination laws. Forcing the Scouts to include gays, Rehnquist held, would "significantly burden" the Scouts' expression in opposition to homosexuality.

But now the national-level organization has abandoned this expression of disapproval. This leaves it to individual troops to argue when they are sued (and c'mon, of course they are going to get sued) that although the national organization Boy Scouts doesn't disapprove, Troop #734, sponsored by a church in Sometown, America, does? And Troop #734 is going to have to hire its own lawyers? How do you think that's going to go?

Regular listeners to the podcast know that I go off on public accommodation laws from time to time. I think they cover way too much. Under the English common law, which is where the notion originates, public accommodations were common carriers and inns and pubs. The reason common carriers, inns, and pubs were required to be open to any with the ability to pay is literally because it was matter of life and death. You have to let people have access to food and water, shelter, and travel. But that was it. It wasn't every business.

The modern trend to declare everything a public accommodation, including membership organizations that any idiot can see are private groups, abandons the notion that people have a right to associate with only those who they care to and also to not associate with those those they don't. Discrimination on the basis of race, religion, national origin, sex, and sexual orientation is abhorrent. But so is using the government to force groups or businesses to associate with individuals that they would rather not.

Posted by: Gabriel Malor at 01:41 PM

Comments

(Jump to bottom of comments)

1 1st

Posted by: Mikey NTH - Sound Less Rage-Crazy, Get Quality Euphemisms at the Outrage Outlet! at July 28, 2015 01:41 PM (hLRSq)

2 2d

Posted by: Mikey NTH - Sound Less Rage-Crazy, Get Quality Euphemisms at the Outrage Outlet! at July 28, 2015 01:41 PM (hLRSq)

3 Blow Scouts of America

Posted by: GuyWhoDoesntGiveAShit at July 28, 2015 01:41 PM (7ObY1)

4 3d

Posted by: Mikey NTH - Sound Less Rage-Crazy, Get Quality Euphemisms at the Outrage Outlet! at July 28, 2015 01:41 PM (hLRSq)

5 I won't be supporting the Boy Rape Scouts for Raping Boys anymore.

Posted by: Inspector Cussword at July 28, 2015 01:42 PM (LlQKJ)

6 Incoming merit badge for "grooming"

Posted by: brak at July 28, 2015 01:42 PM (Tj+s6)

7 So sick of the baby death reality that I ALMOST welcome the Daily Yay! Gay! Thread.

Almost.

Posted by: Sharkman at July 28, 2015 01:43 PM (72D6h)

8 Rats.

I look to the BSA's membership imploding in short order, and then the scandals coming out in a few years.

Posted by: Mikey NTH - Sound Less Rage-Crazy, Get Quality Euphemisms at the Outrage Outlet! at July 28, 2015 01:43 PM (hLRSq)

9 After this decision, the Mormons are exploring the possibility of
creating their own Scouts-like organization and take them at their word:
troops will bail on the Scouts over this.

I am shocked that the Mormons don't have something like the scouts already. They do not buy in to a lot of modern societal pressure.

Posted by: huerfano at July 28, 2015 01:44 PM (bynk/)

10 So gays don't want equality?

'Cause you know who we don't put in charge of underage post-pubescent girls in sex-segregated settings?

Men who are attracted to post-pubescent girls.

But if you don't think homosexuality is a genuine sexual desire, then I guess this makes sense.

Posted by: AmishDude at July 28, 2015 01:44 PM (JIElb)

11 Posted by: Sharkman at July 28, 2015 01:43 PM (72D6h)

I don't think Gabe was agreeing with the BSA's decision here.

Posted by: Mikey NTH - Sound Less Rage-Crazy, Get Quality Euphemisms at the Outrage Outlet! at July 28, 2015 01:45 PM (hLRSq)

12 In Iowa, will the Boy Scouts offer a merit badge in strap-on anal sex after they get sued by Iowa Safe Schools?

Posted by: OCBill at July 28, 2015 01:45 PM (cPg42)

13 I say we send them some dog food, should cheer them up as much as it does me!

Posted by: Killerdog at July 28, 2015 01:46 PM (lT+fL)

14 Mikey, much like the fact that public schools have a much higher incidence of child molestation than the Catholic Church, and the fact that 100% of the molestation of young men in the Catholic Church has been by homosexual priests, the upcoming BSA scandals will never be reported.

Posted by: Sharkman at July 28, 2015 01:46 PM (72D6h)

15 Regular listeners to the podcast know that I go off on public accommodation laws from time to time.

Look, people, I know I created a huge monster made of discarded body parts and animated him via a bizarre untested process.

But I didn't know he'd be, like, violent or anything.

Posted by: Doctor Victor (not that Vic) Frankenstein at July 28, 2015 01:46 PM (JIElb)

16 The historic vote shifts the specter of discrimination onto local scout groups and those sponsored by religious organizations, which retain the right to set their own policies on whether they'll allow gay men to lead scouts

------------------------------------

Yeah, that right to choose not to have a gay troop leader will last until the nine Tyrants in Black robes declare it to not be.

Posted by: DangerGirl at July 28, 2015 01:47 PM (f/ass)

17 And here we go. Guess I'll work at work now.

Posted by: joncelli, Boned like You at July 28, 2015 01:47 PM (RD7QR)

18 The Gaystapo is still demanding that the Boy Scouts give them their standing ovation.

Posted by: Roy at July 28, 2015 01:48 PM (VndSC)

19 Thanks for the post Gabe.

Posted by: Arson Wells at July 28, 2015 01:48 PM (UnJ7w)

20 "This has been a long time coming."

-----

Oooooh. Say that again.

Posted by: NA new (and Fabulous) Scout Leader at July 28, 2015 01:49 PM (8GKDa)

21 the upcoming BSA scandals will never be reported.

Posted by: Sharkman at July 28, 2015 01:46 PM (72D6h)

Maybe. Maybe not. But the lawsuits are going to be there and the coffers will be drained to pay the settlements anyway.

Posted by: Mikey NTH - Sound Less Rage-Crazy, Get Quality Euphemisms at the Outrage Outlet! at July 28, 2015 01:49 PM (hLRSq)

22 I'm sure this is exactly what Lord Baden Powell envisioned.

Posted by: The Spelling Police at July 28, 2015 01:50 PM (UlI/7)

23 Not good for Canteen Boy:

http://tinyurl.com/ojyg5jd

Posted by: brak at July 28, 2015 01:50 PM (Tj+s6)

24 But....but.....the new uniforms will be fabulous.

Posted by: Soona at July 28, 2015 01:50 PM (P25Hh)

25 Barack Obama is a SCOAMT.

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - Not dead yet at July 28, 2015 01:50 PM (kff5f)

26 Oops and when I read the whole piece, I see I'm just repeating what Gabe said. Eh, it's the AoS way.

Posted by: DangerGirl at July 28, 2015 01:51 PM (f/ass)

27 Burn it down.
Scatter the stones.
Salt the earth where it stood.

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - Not dead yet at July 28, 2015 01:51 PM (kff5f)

28 Oh, look, the lawn needs mowing.

Posted by: Pappy O'Daniel at July 28, 2015 01:51 PM (oVJmc)

29 Boy Scouts membership to drop even further.

Posted by: Buzzion at July 28, 2015 01:51 PM (S0T89)

30 10. NAMBLA rejoices

Posted by: @PeeteySDee at July 28, 2015 01:51 PM (qYhqx)

31 **seethe**

To Rant, or Not To Rant. That is the question...

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - Not dead yet at July 28, 2015 01:51 PM (kff5f)

32 "Discrimination on the basis of race, religion, national origin, sex, and sexual orientation is abhorrent."
Why? Freedom by definition is discrimination. Reasons for that discrimination are NOT relevant. If I cannot associate or NOT associate with whom I choose...I am not a free man. This is by definition a justification for much violence.

Posted by: Sidney Allen Johnson at July 28, 2015 01:51 PM (lwb//)

33
Next up will be the requirement that the scout leader be gay, or transexual.

Because diversity!

Posted by: nnptcrad at July 28, 2015 01:52 PM (Mxs5H)

34 I'm an Eagle Scout. I'm sad my sons won't be.

Posted by: Turd Ferguson at July 28, 2015 01:52 PM (VAsIq)

35 Promoting opportunities for sexual predators?

Seriously.

FU Gabe Malor.

You are what's wrong with this country.

Posted by: some random meathead at July 28, 2015 01:52 PM (QuNQQ)

36 >>Regular listeners to the podcast know that I go off on public accommodation laws from time to time.

So, Gabe, are in favor of repealing the Civil Rights Act of 1964?

Posted by: mynewhandle at July 28, 2015 01:52 PM (AkOaV)

37 I'm guessing the camping trips will be fabulous

Posted by: Ncj at July 28, 2015 01:52 PM (NABCa)

38 Isn't this old news? They lifted the ban back on July 10th. But local groups can deal with it as they see fit. Which will do nothing but invite legal action.

Posted by: Vic - Republicans help Obama commit treason at July 28, 2015 01:52 PM (GpgJl)

39 And I think Pixy is calling me a fatass. Whadda day!

Posted by: DangerGirl at July 28, 2015 01:53 PM (f/ass)

40 I'm glad my son got his Eagle when he did as this will be the inevitable destruction of BSA. My bet is 2/3's of the troops will dissolve. Sad day.

Posted by: wrg500 at July 28, 2015 01:53 PM (S+el1)

41

The dirty secret here is the lobbying and offensive plays by LGBT orgs for this.

There is so much collusion it is like NAMBLA has been brought in to advise.

It's as creepy and weird as Planned Parenthood harvesting organs...

The true face of progressivism is a combination of every horrorshow bad guy ever.

What was that movie with the composite badguy, Virtuosity, where he had every bad trait from every mass murderer?

Posted by: rev dr e buzz Miller at July 28, 2015 01:53 PM (cNiT0)

42 I'm out.

This is beyond insanity.

Posted by: some random meathead at July 28, 2015 01:53 PM (QuNQQ)

43 I am shocked that the Mormons don't have something like the scouts already. They do not buy in to a lot of modern societal pressure.

Posted by: huerfano

We didn't see a point in having our own version until recently. The BSA program was great and fit the Church's needs just fine.

Posted by: Turd Ferguson at July 28, 2015 01:54 PM (VAsIq)

44 Promoting opportunities for sexual predators?
Seriously.
FU Gabe Malor.
You are what's wrong with this country.
Posted by: some random meathead
-------------

Uh..., WHERE does Gabe do that? Have you READ the Post?

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at July 28, 2015 01:54 PM (9mTYi)

45 Putting gay men in close proximity to children worked so well for the Catholic Church, why shouldn't the Boy Scouts try it? When you choose a policy, you choose it's predictable results. This move will literally cause more children to be molested, that's just the reality. For those who have been speculating about pro-pedophilia legislation/judicial fiat, the zeitgeist is already here. Formalization through the Courts are next. No slippery slope....

Posted by: Lincolntf at July 28, 2015 01:54 PM (2cS/G)

46 Even if National approves it, that does not mean it is mandatory. Every troop and pack is chartered through a civic organization, usually churches. The chartering organization can impose additional requirements that align with their beliefs.

Posted by: Penfold at July 28, 2015 01:55 PM (Fbt5B)

47 Our local Boy Scout headquarters sold the building they used. The paper said that declining membership made the building unfordable. The local paper of course didn't inquire why, other than ask if they were going to welcome gay leaders, which the paper endorsed. And I suppose the paper would assume would help build the membership back...Gannett paper of course.

Posted by: Colin at July 28, 2015 01:55 PM (ui6x3)

48 I am shocked that the Mormons don't have something like the scouts already. They do not buy in to a lot of modern societal pressure.
Posted by: huerfano at July 28, 2015 01:44 PM (bynk/)

Mormon Church is heavily involved with the boy scouts. To the point of basically running the boy scouts.

So if they (and their money, volunteer time, etc) spin off from the boy scouts, it's really only a matter of time before the boy scouts implodes.

Posted by: mynewhandle at July 28, 2015 01:55 PM (AkOaV)

49 And so it goes. The destruction of another American tradition.

Posted by: Soona at July 28, 2015 01:55 PM (P25Hh)

50 @9 I am shocked that the Mormons don't have something like the scouts already. They do not buy in to a lot of modern societal pressure.
-----------------

The LDS Church didn't need to build a separate organization, because the BSA was close enough to what the Church needed.

My own thoughts are that the LDS Church wouldn't be immediately affected by this. Being Scoutmaster for an LDS troop is, so far as I've always seen, an official calling by the local Church leadership. You don't volunteer for the Scout troop leadership. The local leadership volunteers you instead (you can always decline, of course). So if the local Church leadership didn't think that a particular individual was appropriate for the Scoutmaster role for some reason *cough*, then that person would never be a Scoutmaster. "We thought his talents could be better used elsewhere in the ward."

However, it's likely that the church leadership has decided that the writing is on the wall, and it's time to bail on the organization.

Posted by: junior at July 28, 2015 01:55 PM (3m3mw)

51 Isn't this old news? They lifted the ban back on July 10th. But local groups can deal with it as they see fit. Which will do nothing but invite legal action.

No.

The National Council voted to end the blanket ban on July 10th. Yesterday was a confirmation vote by the Board (I may have that backward - it may have been the Board back on the 10th, and National Council yesterday).

And, yes, this is the worst possible policy. Given that Bob Gates is behind it, I'm not terribly surprised. Indeed, I wouldn't be surprised to find out he did it so he could claim he hadn't ended the ban "Local units get to decide!" while ending the ban - BSA will "indemnify" local units and charter orgs in the event of lawsuit- which means that those local groups have to pay first, and BSA will reimburse them later.

Take a guess how many local churches or local BSA units have the funds to take on the gaystappo.

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - Not dead yet at July 28, 2015 01:55 PM (kff5f)

52 14 Mikey, much like the fact that public schools have a much higher incidence of child molestation than the Catholic Church, and the fact that 100% of the molestation of young men in the Catholic Church has been by homosexual priests, the upcoming BSA scandals will never be reported.
Posted by: Sharkman at July 28, 2015 01:46 PM (72D6h)

___________

Do you really have to report that men molesting boys are gay? That's kind of like reporting it's not dark at noon.

Posted by: HUCK / AKIN 2016 at July 28, 2015 01:55 PM (0LHZx)

53 So all those lawsuits for not vetting scoutmasters who then molested boys over the years...what now.... all those guys were gay....

Posted by: Mr Wizard at July 28, 2015 01:56 PM (eOpVe)

54 >>> So sick of the baby death reality that I ALMOST welcome the Daily Yay! Gay! Thread.

If everybody is gay then we won't need abortion!

Remember: It's Sapient to be Homo.

Posted by: Bigby's Reacharound at July 28, 2015 01:56 PM (3ZtZW)

55 44 Mike Hammer,

I read the post, I'm waiting for the Girl Scouts to have heterosexual male leaders....

"Wait, that's different."

Posted by: The Smiling Bandit@sven10077 at July 28, 2015 01:56 PM (/4AZU)

56 I am on the board. This is simple SJW's attempts to destroy the Scouts. Read this, tell me that an oath I've taken for almost 60 years means shit now.

Boy Scout Oath or Promise
On my honor, I will do my best

To do my duty to God and my country and to obey the Scout Law;

To help other people at all times;

To keep myself physically strong, mentally awake and morally straight

Posted by: Nip Sip at July 28, 2015 01:56 PM (0FSuD)

57 Did we ever find out what happened to Ace? Did I miss a vacation post?

Posted by: Austin in TX at July 28, 2015 01:56 PM (3cp3C)

58 Uh..., WHERE does Gabe do that? Have you READ the Post?

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at July 28, 2015 01:54 PM (9mTYi)

Reading the post before commenting, while not prohibited, is heavily frowned upon in the AoSHQ Style Manual.

Posted by: Mikey NTH - Sound Less Rage-Crazy, Get Quality Euphemisms at the Outrage Outlet! at July 28, 2015 01:56 PM (hLRSq)

59 California has banned judges (who are elected/retained by the voters) from associating with the Scouts.

Any bets that now the scouts allow Gays in all rolls, that the ban will be retained nonetheless?

Posted by: The Political Hat at July 28, 2015 01:57 PM (/YkzI)

60 @Sharkman, there is a case against the BSA in New Jersey right now, a scoutmaster molested several boy scouts. BSA is opening their "perversion files" which show the steps they took, or did not take, in dealing with complaints of inappropriate contact.

Posted by: Penfold at July 28, 2015 01:57 PM (Fbt5B)

61 makes the phrase "Scouting for boys" have a new meaning

Posted by: Mr Wizard at July 28, 2015 01:57 PM (eOpVe)

62 Be Prepared!

Posted by: Count de Monet, Star Scout at July 28, 2015 01:58 PM (JO9+V)

63 Yay!!! I got my badge in feltching!!

Posted by: Ncj at July 28, 2015 01:58 PM (1VJMO)

64 Incoming merit badge for "grooming"
Posted by: brak at July 28, 2015 01:42 PM (Tj+s6)

That is disturbing on so, so many levels.

There is a reason we don't generally encourage grown men take 10 little girls into the woods alone...

Posted by: Lea at July 28, 2015 01:58 PM (lIU4e)

65 Even if National approves it, that does not mean it is mandatory. Every troop and pack is chartered through a civic organization, usually churches. The chartering organization can impose additional requirements that align with their beliefs.

Right up until they're sued into bankruptcy.

I don't even remember how many times this has already gone before the Supreme Court - but I know that it was more than once. That's not cheap. Someone is bankrolling that.

Most local churches aren't going to have the money to bankroll their own defense that long - and even GoFundMe or whatever can only cover so many of them.

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - Not dead yet at July 28, 2015 01:58 PM (kff5f)

66 I'm sure this is exactly what Lord Baden Powell envisioned.

I was going to make the usual crack about British boys' schools, but according to Wikipedia some of his biographers think he was a homosexual. Of course, biographers think everyone was homosexual, so.

Posted by: HR braucht ein Bier at July 28, 2015 01:58 PM (/kI1Q)

67 >>>> I look to the BSA's membership imploding in short order, and then the scandals coming out in a few years.

Unfortunately. What kind of gay man would be oh so interested in hanging out with young boys to be a 'role model' anyway? I mean, sure, a parent going along as a volunteer - that I'd allow, but a scoutmaster? Whatever for?

Posted by: Bigby's Reacharound at July 28, 2015 01:58 PM (3ZtZW)

68
Do you really have to report that men molesting boys are gay?

Many homosexual activists will insist that that is not true.

Posted by: Pappy O'Daniel at July 28, 2015 01:59 PM (oVJmc)

69 50 Soona,

This newer better America is a far snappier dresser with great dance moves...

Posted by: The Smiling Bandit@sven10077 at July 28, 2015 01:59 PM (/4AZU)

70 Even if National approves it, that does not mean it is mandatory. Every troop and pack is chartered through a civic organization, usually churches. The chartering organization can impose additional requirements that align with their beliefs.
Posted by: Penfold at July 28, 2015 01:55 PM (Fbt5B)

----------------

Until the courts say they can't. I'm sure the gay mafia is already writing their civil suits.

Posted by: Soona at July 28, 2015 01:59 PM (P25Hh)

71
*Waits for lawsuits from boy scouts preyed upon by gay pedos*

That organization is toast either way. They should have voted to fold up.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at July 28, 2015 01:59 PM (ODxAs)

72 When Gabe apologizes for calling us White Supremacists on Twitter, instead of sending ace to do it for him, I'll apologize for my comment

Posted by: some random meathead at July 28, 2015 01:59 PM (QuNQQ)

73 I can't WAIT to be a Girl Scout leader. Let's make this happen!

Posted by: Woody Allen at July 28, 2015 01:59 PM (OZmbA)

74 58 Did we ever find out what happened to Ace? Did I miss a vacation post?

Posted by: Austin in TX at July 28, 2015 01:56 PM (3cp3C)

++++

Maybe he's boycotting the blog.

Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at July 28, 2015 02:00 PM (IN7k+)

75 I look to the BSA's membership imploding in short order, and then the scandals coming out in a few years.

I think the adults are less of a problem than the older scouts, honestly.

The guy in his late 30s with no wife, no kids who lives with his mother is going to be looked at very carefully as a scout leader. I'm sure he is today and always has been.

But how many teenage boys join organizations just to meet girls? So if you're gay and there's a sex-segregated organization, wouldn't you want to join that over other organizations?

The Boy Scouts should just do what most other countries do and make them co-ed.

Posted by: AmishDude at July 28, 2015 02:00 PM (JIElb)

76 Oh and to all my friends who suggest that the Scout's two deep leadership will protect boys, remember Tim and Bruce can now marry and be "two deep" leadership.

But gheys never attack little boys, never.

http://tinyurl.com/bo3ldpm

Posted by: Nip Sip at July 28, 2015 02:00 PM (0FSuD)

77 "I don't think Gabe was agreeing with the BSA's decision here."

I sort of took it the same way.

Now, on to the second part.

Our son's Troop is sponsored by a Church that has taken the very inclusive viewpoint that says if the Troop desires to exclude Gay Leaders, the Troop can find a new home.

Basically, the Headquarters Staff said they didn't have the stones, but maybe a single Troop could.

Thanks....
No...
Really....

Thanks

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at July 28, 2015 02:00 PM (VPLuQ)

78 65 Yay!!! I got my badge in feltching!!
Posted by: Ncj at July 28, 2015 01:58 PM (1VJMO)

That's....Sassy! Which there is also a badge for, I'm sure. As well as sodomy.

Posted by: model_1066 at July 28, 2015 02:01 PM (WEvvb)

79 Posted by: Nip Sip at July 28, 2015 01:56 PM (0FSuD)

Duty to God deserves bold in that, too.

Or did I miss a religion somewhere that says homosexuality is just okay?

The Boy Scouts were formed as an organization which was very specifically Christian - thus that whole "Duty to God" thing. But that doesn't matter, because it gave Bob Gates teh sadz.

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - Not dead yet at July 28, 2015 02:01 PM (kff5f)

80 Do you really have to report that men molesting boys are gay?

Many homosexual activists will insist that that is not true.
Posted by: Pappy O'Daniel at July 28, 2015 01:59 PM (oVJmc)

It's a hate crime to say gay men molest boys.

Most "male child molesters" are NOT gay we are informed by the gay types.

JERRY SANDUSKY WAS MARRIED TO A WOMAN!!!! THAT MAKES HIM STRAIGHT

-Gaystapo

Posted by: mynewhandle at July 28, 2015 02:01 PM (AkOaV)

81 Malor has pushed the gay agenda from day one. His rejoicing over Fake Marriage proved his true colors.

This is just another post for you ignorant white supremacists to soak up and to make you believe that he is actually a conservative and on your side.

Posted by: some random meathead at July 28, 2015 02:01 PM (QuNQQ)

82 Let's go whittle us up some butt-plugs, bitches!

Posted by: Scout_Leader at July 28, 2015 02:02 PM (WEvvb)

83 The Boy Scouts should just do what most other countries do and make them co-ed.

Posted by: AmishDude at July 28, 2015 02:00 PM (JIElb)

New to the game? The Scouts already have co-ed programs AND women leaders. I love advice from folks who don't know shit about what they are talking about. Sorry, that was rude. True, but rude.

Posted by: Nip Sip at July 28, 2015 02:02 PM (0FSuD)

84 What if a group allows individuals who are Gay, but prohibits members from engaging in same-sex relations or expressing support for the same, upon penalty of expulsion?

There is a difference between being homosexual, and either engaging in, or expressing support for, actual relations between those of the same sex.

Conflate the two, and you are not just banning discrimination for some trait, but placing certain behaviors above criticism.

Posted by: The Political Hat at July 28, 2015 02:02 PM (/YkzI)

85 It's the old frog in the warm water thing.... It's nice and warm and cozy so the frog doesn't notice until too late that He's boiled....

That's what's been slowly happening over the years... We've been anesthetized against things We ordinarily would be against like gay marriage, transgender kids, the glut of illegals, and every other social program they send our way..

Posted by: donna at July 28, 2015 02:03 PM (hUdMz)

86 Had a great time as a Scout. (never a cub scout) On camping jamborees, the leaders even took us to church if we wanted to go. (holy shit, what a horrible thing to do to developing boys, now days)

Posted by: Colin at July 28, 2015 02:03 PM (ui6x3)

87 Just think how happy teh gay scout leaders will be! The ones who really really really like working with Youth!

Posted by: Jeanne of the no. at July 28, 2015 02:03 PM (6zMH6)

88 Well then... I'm going to march right down there and join the NAACP.

Posted by: Ambiguously Gay Richard Simmons at July 28, 2015 02:04 PM (B1iIG)

89

And it's always a one-way street.

People are forced to do what the loudmouths via government want, but not vice versa.

They cannot comprehend how this makes them racists, bigots, hatemongers and anti-American.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at July 28, 2015 02:04 PM (qCMvj)

90 I wasn't a scout and have never been involved with it. So I'm asking because I just don't know.

Is it just 1 guy going camping with a bunch of 9 year old boys? Don't the parents of these kids go on the trips? Hell, if I had a kid that young, no way in hell I'm sending him off camping alone....gay leader, straight leader, whatever leader.

Posted by: HUCK / AKIN 2016 at July 28, 2015 02:04 PM (0LHZx)

91 46 Even if National approves it, that does not mean it is mandatory. Every troop and pack is chartered through a civic organization, usually churches. The chartering organization can impose additional requirements that align with their beliefs.
Posted by: Penfold at July 28, 2015 01:55 PM (Fbt5B)

Yes, but no. The problem is that National basically just pushed the lawsuit problem onto the backs on individual packs and troops. I just discussed this with my son's Cub Master a week or so ago. He says that technically he will be able to continue to pick and choose his leadership team and- since we are chartered by a church- decline a prospective leader for any reason, BUT that if the pack were sued over it (a) we would fold financially and (b) the local council would probably remove him and replace him with someone who will comply.

As it stands, I have no idea what to do. My son is in cub scouts and loves it and has made a lot of friends. Scouting has been important for us because we home school and it's been a positive source of socialization for the kids. If I pull him he will be extremely upset.

Posted by: Mandy P., lurking lurker who lurks at July 28, 2015 02:04 PM (KkVB6)

92 Sure opens up a new world of scout badges!

Posted by: Colonel Haiku at July 28, 2015 02:04 PM (Y8JQ4)

93 Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at July 28, 2015 02:00 PM (VPLuQ)

I'm the committee chair, and my chartered org has said that they will allow homosexual leadership.

So now I get to explain to my son that he may not get to be a scout for much longer. The *one* extra-curricular activity he's ever been in that he loved, and I'm probably going to have to take him out of it.

Thanks, BSA. Thanks a lot.

(My personal position is this - as long as it's not an issue, it's not an issue. National Council can take a flying leap for all I care. The moment it's an issue, we're out.)

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - Not dead yet at July 28, 2015 02:05 PM (kff5f)

94 Gee, it used to be the adults held themselves responsible for the safety of minors in their care. Parents knew that their children would be protected by the adults who were in charge of these groups.

There used to be an implied security in having a son or daughter involved in Scouting; the BSA has just torn that security blanket to shreds.

Posted by: Teresa in Fort Worth, TX at July 28, 2015 02:05 PM (KpAcJ)

95 Hoo Boy!

I can't wait until they put my statue up at Penn State to replace that old white guy Joe.

After that I can form my very own troop!

Happy days.

Posted by: Jerry Sandusky at July 28, 2015 02:05 PM (D0NZx)

96 Yes, pedophiles seek out opportunities to "interact" with children in occupations like coaching and teaching and volunteering with youth groups for fertile hunting grounds. It's an acknowledged fact and oh, so predictable behavior. But those gay Boy Scout leaders probably aren't the ones you should be looking at. Nope, nosiree, not at all.

Posted by: huerfano at July 28, 2015 02:05 PM (bynk/)

97 And Obama pardons Jonathan Pollard.

Sure, why not?

Posted by: JackStraw at July 28, 2015 02:05 PM (OGm46)

98 This is all just a step towards the endgame...the total destruction of the BSA.

The SJW's will accept nothing less.

Posted by: GuyWhoDoesntGiveAShit at July 28, 2015 02:06 PM (7ObY1)

99 Is it just 1 guy going camping with a bunch of 9 year old boys? Don't the parents of these kids go on the trips? Hell, if I had a kid that young, no way in hell I'm sending him off camping alone....gay leader, straight leader, whatever leader.
Posted by: HUCK / AKIN 2016 at July 28, 2015 02:04 PM (0LHZx)

When I was a boy scout, typically parent volunteers would go on the trip as well.

But there was still PLENTY of time where a kid could be alone with an adult. As I understand it, the policy from BSA has been "don't be alone with a child unless it's your child" for a while now. But there were absolutely times when I was alone with adults that were not my parent.

Posted by: mynewhandle at July 28, 2015 02:06 PM (AkOaV)

100
Go read the Scout oath and tell me how you square "morally straight" with this.

Then get back with me and explain how you justify why the Scouts should promote aberrant behavior on a national basis.

Sick manifestation of a sick society.

Posted by: irongrampa at July 28, 2015 02:06 PM (jeCnD)

101 What about transgender Scout leaders who aren't really transgender in that they still have their twig and berries, IYKWIM. And who aren't really gay in that they like other people who may or may not have a Y chromosome and who DON'T have their twig and berries any more or never had them. Clear ?

[Asking for a friend]

Posted by: Kaitlyn Jenner at July 28, 2015 02:06 PM (OZmbA)

102 The dirty secret here is the lobbying and offensive plays by LGBT orgs for this.

It's because there isn't any real discrimination against gays.

There isn't. It's hard to find. You've either got people who won't work for the wedding or organizations that felt that people being attracted to each other in close quarters is a bad idea (formerly, military and BSA).

It's almost as if they treated homosexuality as if it were a genuine sexual desire. Which is bigoted, of course.

Posted by: AmishDude at July 28, 2015 02:06 PM (JIElb)

103
hahahaha @ "gay leaders"

what an absurd phrase

Alternate post title: Boy Scouts Set To Allow Sexual Perverts Around Young Boys Unsupervised Because Not Doing So Is Discrimnation

Posted by: Soothsayer II at July 28, 2015 02:06 PM (h0PFb)

104 97 And Obama pardons Jonathan Pollard.

Sure, why not?

A bribe to make Israel shut up...

Posted by: donna at July 28, 2015 02:06 PM (hUdMz)

105 This is just another post for you ignorant white supremacists to soak up and to make you believe that he is actually a conservative and on your side.

Posted by: some random meathead at July 28, 2015 02:01 PM (QuNQQ)

It sounds like somebody needs a hug.

Posted by: Mikey NTH - Sound Less Rage-Crazy, Get Quality Euphemisms at the Outrage Outlet! at July 28, 2015 02:07 PM (hLRSq)

106 A long time coming? Really?

You know what is a long time coming?

The 41 Companies That Donate Directly to Planned Parenthood Will Shock You
Link in nick

Posted by: rebel flounder at July 28, 2015 02:07 PM (Vf5rR)

107 Trigger warning: I use homo as shorthand, not as a pejorative.

@45 When raising any question of a link between pedo and homo proclivities, you will invariably be led to a 1970's study that for obvious reasons have never been tested directly or rigorously. All later studies are weighed against that one study and another CO study of medical records.

Those two point to no homo/pedo link or point at a greater hetero/pedo link, while hiding behind the idea of "you're not homo if you do not identify as homo," any underlying homo-pedo rape/incest be damned. That is, you are not homo unless you think of yourself as homo. See, Dolezal insanity.

What both of those earlier pro-homo studies seemingly do not answer is the question of access. That is, are people with pedo proclivities (hetero, homo, or otherwise) more likely to rape if given unsupervised access? Seems self-evident.

Note the question still remains: Are people given to homo behavior (disregarding silly notions of identity) more apt to rape when given unsupervised access? As a professional, you will be road out a town on a rail for asking this question.

Posted by: rebel flounder at July 28, 2015 02:07 PM (Vf5rR)

108 So when I retire, I think I become a troop leader. One eyed leaders are in great demand.

Posted by: Harry Reid, Pederast at July 28, 2015 02:07 PM (0FSuD)

109 One hopes that the BSA's retainers are all paid up.

Posted by: Grump928(c) at July 28, 2015 02:07 PM (evdj2)

110 Is it just 1 guy going camping with a bunch of 9 year old boys? Don't
the parents of these kids go on the trips? Hell, if I had a kid that
young, no way in hell I'm sending him off camping alone....gay leader,
straight leader, whatever leader.

Back in my day the leaders took us camping, not saying the parents didn't visit, but we trusted the leaders. I'm probably talking about when I was more like 11-12 or so. I think your in the Cub Scouts at the real young age. your talking about.

Posted by: Colin at July 28, 2015 02:08 PM (ui6x3)

111 This is Gabe celebrating Gay Progress with his own version of IN YOUR FACE.

Gabe tweeted that certain conservatives were equal to White Supremacists for showing interest in a certain candidate.

He believes that everyone else has a hidden agenda - because he actually does.

Can you guess it?

Projection.

Posted by: some random meathead at July 28, 2015 02:08 PM (QuNQQ)

112 We will award special merit badges in a secret ceremony for young boys interested in the federal legislative process.

Posted by: Harry Reid and Mitch McConnell at July 28, 2015 02:08 PM (UlJ3l)

113 Usually 4 or 5 parents would accompany about twenty of us for overnight trips. The two main leaders and then random parents of the kids. Didn't seem weird or creepy at all. Of course, I only Scouted for about 3 years in the late Seventies, early Eighties, before the topic of child molestation was in the papers every day.

Posted by: Lincolntf at July 28, 2015 02:08 PM (2cS/G)

114 There is a difference between being homosexual, and either engaging in, or expressing support for, actual relations between those of the same sex.

Yes, there is. However, being openly homosexual is, by definition, both engaging in (at least in private) AND expressing support for "actual relations between those of the same sex."

There is not a single question on any application for the Boy Scouts which currently asks your sexual preference. You could be into bestiality for all we know.

So the only way this even comes up is if you are openly homosexual - and particularly "practicing". Then and only then will it be an issue.

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - Not dead yet at July 28, 2015 02:09 PM (kff5f)

115 Do you really have to report that men molesting boys are gay? That's kind of like reporting it's not dark at noon.
Posted by: HUCK / AKIN
---------------------

When GLAAD et al exert pressure on the national media outlets (who happily accede to their agenda) to NOT identify the predators as 'homosexuals', then yes, it is highly relevant.

The deflection is always that they are 'pedophiles', which is not true, as the boys involved are always post-pubescent. You see, if 'homosexual predator' is not spoken, then the community, of which he is inherently a part, is exempted from association.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at July 28, 2015 02:09 PM (9mTYi)

116 It is sad though that the Mo's must destroy everything.

Posted by: Grump928(c) at July 28, 2015 02:09 PM (evdj2)

117 Some random meth head just got out of prison....

Posted by: Scout_Leader at July 28, 2015 02:09 PM (WEvvb)

118 @90 Is it just 1 guy going camping with a bunch of 9 year old boys? Don't the parents of these kids go on the trips? Hell, if I had a kid that young, no way in hell I'm sending him off camping alone....gay leader, straight leader, whatever leader.
---------------------

For a week long hike up in the mountains?

No, the parents aren't coming along...

The trips I went on always had multiple leaders, though. So it wasn't as if it was just one scoutmaster with a bunch of boys. But anyone who's interested in teenage boys will find a way to take advantage of the situation. The more likely scenario, imo, is that a problem scoutmaster will use the trips to start grooming one of the boys, and then arrange to meet with him alone when they're not on a trip.

Posted by: junior at July 28, 2015 02:09 PM (3m3mw)

119
Well then... I'm going to march right down there and join the NAACP.

Posted by: Ambiguously Gay Richard Simmons at July 28, 2015 02:04 PM (B1iIG)

Why not? The NAACP was started around 1910 by a bunch of pasty white people (except for WEB DuBois as the token negro on the board). They didn't have a black President of the organization until the mid-70s.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at July 28, 2015 02:09 PM (egLDQ)

120 And what's with all the new "shows" with transgender kids?

Posted by: donna at July 28, 2015 02:09 PM (hUdMz)

121 Flashback

Walden West: Man accused of possessing child porn often interacted with kids who called him 'Papa Bear' - Link in Nick

Despite
assurances from at least one school district that his job duties did not
require interacting with children, a man known as "Papa Bear" arrested
Thursday on suspicion of child porn possession at science camp would
often go into cabins to wake campers in the morning, parents say.
Edgar
Covarrubias, 27, was arrested at Walden West Science Camp and is
accused of having several hundred images and videos of child pornography
on his personal computer and on his phone, according to officials from
the Santa Clara County Sheriff's Office.

What could go wrong.

Posted by: rebel flounder at July 28, 2015 02:09 PM (Vf5rR)

122
Total Bullshit. The Boy Scouts werent pressured by businesses.

Businesses were being preasured by your Leftist pals to stop supporting the Boy Scouts.

The Boy Scouts were infiltrated by enough of your pro-pervert leftist pals to cause the cave in.

Posted by: Soothsayer II at July 28, 2015 02:11 PM (h0PFb)

123 And a classic from the Best Page in the Universe

Probably NSFW for language

How to spot a pedophile

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=spot_the_pedo

Posted by: rebel flounder at July 28, 2015 02:11 PM (Vf5rR)

124 I am shocked that the Mormons don't have something like the scouts already. They do not buy in to a lot of modern societal pressure. Posted by: huerfano at July 28, 2015 01:44 PM (bynk/)

Apparently the Mormons once did girl scout troops too, but after the feminist takeovers of girl scouts in the 60s/70s they disconnected from the group. I did a Personal Progress thing combined with girls camps each summer, I think that covered the girls.

I know the Utah leaders are saying they will keep gay leaders out on a troop by troop basis, for now. No doubt they will disband and make their own group in the future. Scout troops are such an LDS staple, is going to be a kerfluffle.

Posted by: LizLem at July 28, 2015 02:11 PM (hvf9s)

125 "Discrimination on the basis of race, religion, national origin, sex, and sexual orientation is abhorrent. But so is using the government to force groups or businesses to associate with individuals that they would rather not."

Well said.

Form your own groups. It's not like the BSA has to have a monopoly.

Posted by: Feh at July 28, 2015 02:11 PM (0U+Gy)

126 Now hold on, we should look for the silver lining here.

Posted by: Wicked Uncle Ernie at July 28, 2015 02:11 PM (l3vZN)

127 And a classic from the Best Page in the Universe

Dude sure used to have some funny stuff.

Posted by: Moderate Salami, weeping for our Republic at July 28, 2015 02:12 PM (/Ho8c)

128 109
One hopes that the BSA's retainers are all paid up.

Posted by: Grump928(c) at July 28, 2015 02:07 PM (evdj2)

I mentioned this at the board meeting yesterday. This is just the beginning. It will never end till the SJW ban the Scouts. Believe in God? NO. Believe in being Physically fit, NO what about our handicapped. Believe in helping others? NO, that for the government.

Conservative organizations must be attacked. PERIOD.

Posted by: Harry Reid, Pederast at July 28, 2015 02:12 PM (0FSuD)

129 117
Some random meth head just got out of prison....

Yeah whatever.

I have been around here for years.

To this day I can't fathom why Malor is still here.

ace's weak assplanation on Friday didn't help.

Posted by: some random meathead at July 28, 2015 02:12 PM (QuNQQ)

130 Well then... I'm going to march right down there and join the NAACP.
---------------

Worked for me.

Posted by: Rachel Dolezal at July 28, 2015 02:12 PM (9mTYi)

131 Do you really have to report that men molesting boys are gay? That's kind of like reporting it's not dark at noon.

I've seen a little bit written about this.

According to the evidence, it turns out that women do very little molesting statistically. It's a male phenomenon. True pedophiles (pre-pubescent) don't seem to track with their sexual identity at all. That is, that if a man is a pedophile and molests boys then he is no more likely to think of himself as homosexual (and act that way with adults) than otherwise.

However, when it comes to post-pubescent, then ephibophiles tend to correlate with their attraction to adult genders.

Posted by: AmishDude at July 28, 2015 02:12 PM (JIElb)

132 Why not? The NAACP was started around 1910 by a bunch of pasty white people (except for WEB DuBois as the token negro on the board). They didn't have a black President of the organization until the mid-70s.
Posted by: IllTemperedCur
______________

Didn't know that. So what you're saying is that the NAACP used to be almost as white as a Bernie Sanders rally?

Posted by: Furious George at July 28, 2015 02:13 PM (UlJ3l)

133 @91 As it stands, I have no idea what to do. My son is in cub scouts and loves it and has made a lot of friends. Scouting has been important for us because we home school and it's been a positive source of socialization for the kids. If I pull him he will be extremely upset.
------------------------

My suggestion for anyone in this situation is pretty straightforward. Get in touch with the local LDS church leadership, and get your son into their scouting program. The LDS church is *not* going to allow this, and has the finances to deal with any immediate legal threats.

Posted by: junior at July 28, 2015 02:13 PM (3m3mw)

134
It should not be a light bulb moment that pedos go where they have trusted positions with kids; teachers, religious leaders, youth groups, coaches and scouts. Scouts just made it easier for gay pedos.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at July 28, 2015 02:13 PM (ODxAs)

135 The trips I went on always had multiple leaders, though. So it wasn't as if it was just one scoutmaster with a bunch of boys. But anyone who's interested in teenage boys will find a way to take advantage of the situation. The more likely scenario, imo, is that a problem scoutmaster will use the trips to start grooming one of the boys, and then arrange to meet with him alone when they're not on a trip.
Posted by: junior at July 28, 2015 02:09 PM (3m3mw)

Yeah I mean its like teachers or priests -- there really isn't a reason for either of them to ever be totally alone with a young student, but yet... seems to happen.

Posted by: mynewhandle at July 28, 2015 02:13 PM (AkOaV)

136 Well then... I'm going to march right down there and join the NAACP.
-----------------
Sure, that's fine.
Congressional Black Caucus, not so much.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at July 28, 2015 02:13 PM (9mTYi)

137 Hey, y'all remember back in the olden times when the Catholic Church was being pilloried because Priests were abusing alter boy? Remember that? Maybe it was before you were born.

Ok, so that news story went away, and a few years later the Catholic Church was being pilloried because the Church didn't have any gay priests?

Ya, that story went away too, so now all we have a rumors that gay priests are abusing altar boys again, but it's okay now because gay men having sex with young boys is normal, you see?

Posted by: Pyro Maniac at July 28, 2015 02:13 PM (0M6zi)

138 But there was still PLENTY of time where a kid could be alone with an adult. As I understand it, the policy from BSA has been "don't be alone with a child unless it's your child" for a while now. But there were absolutely times when I was alone with adults that were not my parent.

This. Even with "two deep leadership" it's very, very easy to end up - completely accidentally - alone with a child. It would be even easier to do so on purpose.

As for camping with or without parents- as a cub scout, you generally don't go camping without at least one of your parents present. Sometimes it will happen, but not often. As a Boy Scout, you'll usually have the Scout Master, Assistant Scout Master, and maybe one or two adult volunteers with anywhere from 8 - 16 (or more, depending) scouts.

A large part of Boy Scouts is learning independence and self-reliance, which is harder to do if Mom and Dad are at every event.

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - Not dead yet at July 28, 2015 02:13 PM (kff5f)

139 Maybe I'm over protective, but I wouldn't allow my kids to go on overnight trips without me or my wife present. Scouts, school trips, sporting events, whatever. And while on those trips, no way in hell my kids are ever alone with an adult.

Posted by: HUCK / AKIN 2016 at July 28, 2015 02:14 PM (0LHZx)

140 The Scouts have a program and require all leaders to take it. Called "Two Deep" leadership.

No Scout can be with an adult by himself. So when the newly married ghey couple ask Billy to the shower, he'll be OK.

Right.

Posted by: Harry Reid, Pederast at July 28, 2015 02:14 PM (0FSuD)

141 When the boy-molestations start , and they will , we can all stand up and cheer for the supporters of the Gay Agenda.

Posted by: some random meathead at July 28, 2015 02:14 PM (QuNQQ)

142 >>> Most "male child molesters" are NOT gay we are informed by the gay types.

FINE. Will the LGBT lobby admit that *pedophiles* may very well *pose* as gay to avoid discrimination and to gain access to their objects of lust?

Posted by: Bigby's Reacharound at July 28, 2015 02:14 PM (3ZtZW)

143 off read sock, but hey why?

Posted by: Nip Sip at July 28, 2015 02:14 PM (0FSuD)

144 The Gramscian goal of this is, in the long run, to completely destroy the Boy Scouts as an organization.

The people who pushed for this ruling WANT molestation scandals to happen. They WANT the Scouts to be sued into oblivion by the parents of boys who get molested.

That is the entire purpose of "The Long March": to infiltrate organizations not to assume and maintain control of them but specifically to corrupt and thereby destroy them from within.

Posted by: zombie at July 28, 2015 02:14 PM (jBuUi)

145 Didn't know that. So what you're saying is that the NAACP used to be almost as white as a Bernie Sanders rally?
Posted by: Furious George at July 28, 2015 02:13 PM (UlJ3l)

started by jewish guys and a few republicans.

Didn't turn in to a liberal hate whitey group until last few generations.

Posted by: mynewhandle at July 28, 2015 02:14 PM (AkOaV)

146 Now all the child molest cases start again.

Posted by: Bruce With a Wang! at July 28, 2015 02:14 PM (iQIUe)

147 This is all part and parcel of the movement to basically eliminate all "private" organizations, and replace them with politically correct government-approved substitutes.

The Church? It's A toothless tiger now. Don't count on it to draw a red line, much less defend it...

Posted by: Tex Lovera at July 28, 2015 02:15 PM (wtvvX)

148 I was a Girl Scout and loved it. I never put my daughter in Scouts because of their cozy association with PP. It is sad how the left is permeating anything innocent.

I will not be surprised when Jenner, et.al. lobby for trans-whatevers to be allowed to enter the fray.

Posted by: Cheri at July 28, 2015 02:15 PM (oiNtH)

149 That is the entire purpose of "The Long March": to infiltrate organizations not to assume and maintain control of them but specifically to corrupt and thereby destroy them from within.

This is all so disheartening...

Posted by: donna at July 28, 2015 02:15 PM (hUdMz)

150 Ace and Gary - The Ambiguously Gay Boy Scout Leaders.

Too soon?

Posted by: Mikey NTH - Sound Less Rage-Crazy, Get Quality Euphemisms at the Outrage Outlet! at July 28, 2015 02:15 PM (hLRSq)

151 Maybe now we can have gay. Catholic Priests, that should work out ok.

Posted by: Skip at July 28, 2015 02:15 PM (CFAPf)

152 OT, but this Wired (UK) article on the EM Drive paper being presented at the Propulsion conference just yesterday held in Orlando hints at vacuum tests. Pretty cool stuff, either one of this or the Cannae Drive.

http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2015-07/24/emdrive-space-drive-pluto-mission

Posted by: MTF at July 28, 2015 02:15 PM (TxJGV)

153 heh. Zombie kinda beat me to it...

Posted by: Tex Lovera at July 28, 2015 02:15 PM (wtvvX)

154 Trail Life USA is the boy scout alternative - set up shortly after the last decision in 2013.

Posted by: KK at July 28, 2015 02:16 PM (5WKRz)

155 "The historic vote"

"Historic" in the Newspeak sense of "not worth a shit," as in our "historic" President, and Hillary Clinton's "historic" campaign.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at July 28, 2015 02:16 PM (oKE6c)

156 Is it just 1 guy going camping with a bunch of 9 year old boys? Don't
the parents of these kids go on the trips? Hell, if I had a kid that
young, no way in hell I'm sending him off camping alone....gay leader,
straight leader, whatever leader.

Unfortunately many parent in my experience as a scout leader use Cub and Boy Scouts as a baby sitting service and have little dealings with the troop. My son's troop had about 70 boys in it with a core group of fathers of about 8 to 12 helping and 6 to 8 on any given camping trip.

Posted by: wrg500 at July 28, 2015 02:16 PM (S+el1)

157 Posted by: some random meathead at July 28, 2015 02:08 PM (QuNQ

You got called on your knee jerk reaction and you continue to double down. In addition to calling others who didn't idiotically jump on Gabe for something he never said as naive. Save it for when it's valid.

Posted by: Cruzinator at July 28, 2015 02:16 PM (KkliO)

158
If you read Gates closely, he inadvertently admits that he LOWERED the BSA's standards.

This is not progress and it s certainly not good for children. Once again standards and morals were lowered to please the Left.

The time has come and passed, however, when we need to stop blaming Progressives for allowing them to them to get away with this evil. We are destroying ourselves.

Posted by: Soothsayer II at July 28, 2015 02:16 PM (h0PFb)

159 "Boy Scouts membership to drop even further."

Trail Life USA says thank you. I know a number of boys - one who was close to becoming an Eagle Scout - who have jumped ship from the BSA and signed on with Trial Life. Check them out if you'd like: traillifeusa-dot-com.

Posted by: Keith Arnold at July 28, 2015 02:16 PM (iIzG7)

160 I think a lot of people dont care what gays do but object to being forced to endorse it. We were blatantly lied to about certain things happening wouldnt lead to having this shit shoved down our throats 24/7.

Posted by: Bruce With a Wang! at July 28, 2015 02:16 PM (iQIUe)

161 Zombie - thank you, you wrote what I was trying to say.

Posted by: Cheri at July 28, 2015 02:16 PM (oiNtH)

162 Young boys will be seriously damaged physically and psychologically by this stupid PC bullshit.

And the Gay Agenda marches on.

Posted by: some random meathead at July 28, 2015 02:16 PM (QuNQQ)

163 New to the game? The Scouts already have co-ed programs AND women leaders. I love advice from folks who don't know shit about what they are talking about. Sorry, that was rude. True, but rude.

I know all that and they've had women leaders "den mothers" since the beginning. But the programs are pretty separate and not in the intimate setting of the core Boy Scout program.

Also, statistically women don't molest boys or girls, hot teachers exempted.

In most other countries the "Boy Scouts" are co-ed and there is an equivalent of "Girl Scouts" because women, I guess.

Posted by: AmishDude at July 28, 2015 02:17 PM (JIElb)

164 Form your own groups. It's not like the BSA has to have a monopoly.
Posted by: Feh at July 28, 2015 02:11 PM (0U+Gy)

Yeah, they could form "BS Fuck Me In The AA".

Posted by: Scout_Leader at July 28, 2015 02:17 PM (WEvvb)

165 FINE. Will the LGBT lobby admit that *pedophiles* may very well *pose* as gay to avoid discrimination and to gain access to their objects of lust?
Posted by: Bigby's Reacharound at July 28, 2015 02:14 PM (3ZtZW)

Well here's the circle I have trouble squaring.

We're told homosexuality is not a choice. You're born that way. In fact, it's almost a hate crime to think anything other than nature made you gay.

AND YET criminologists and FBI profilers will tell you that pedophilia is not necessarily an innate characteristic, most people who end up being pedo's had some kind of traumatic child hood event (like they themselves being raped as young children) that made them that way.

So -- which is it? Is "sexual orientation" a nature thing? or a nurture thing?

And if being gay is totally nature, then being a pedophile is too, and we should not criminalize them for something they have no control over. Right?

(my feeling: both are a mix of nature/ nurture that varies wildly by person. But that's a hate crime to say)

Posted by: mynewhandle at July 28, 2015 02:17 PM (AkOaV)

166 This hit the "Mormon Newsroom" yesterday. The inside skinny seems to be that since the last decision, the LDS church has been working on their own program in case/when it all came to this. I predict they will withdraw, and soon. The BSA will become a skeletal organization, if they survive at all. They will lose the majority of their funds if/when the Mormons leave.

Posted by: small town girl at July 28, 2015 02:18 PM (nwGjA)

167 Young boys ~~will be~~ already have been seriously damaged physically and psychologically by this stupid PC bullshit.

Posted by: Tex Lovera at July 28, 2015 02:18 PM (wtvvX)

168 Discrimination on the basis of race, religion, national origin, sex, and sexual orientation is abhorrent -Gabe-

Is it? Is it really abhorrent? Or is that lip service to political correctness? I think thou protest too much.

You think women-only health clubs feel bad about excluding 50% of the population?
How about all the race and gender exclusive clubs that have official campus sanction, do you think the members feel abhorrent about excluding the "others"?

Where this really leads back to is the notion that white heterosexual men have to "feel" bad about excluding any group, but that onus to be inclusive only goes one way.

So we pay homage to how "abhorrent" it all is, while recognizing that it is a one way street.

Posted by: OneEyedJack at July 28, 2015 02:18 PM (XmOA9)

169
You got called on your knee jerk reaction and you continue to double
down. In addition to calling others who didn't idiotically jump on
Gabe for something he never said as naive. Save it for when it's valid

If you think that this isn't Malor doing and end-zone dance then you have not been reading his stuff for long.

You can read Gabe's Friday tweet as well as I can.

Posted by: some random meathead at July 28, 2015 02:18 PM (QuNQQ)

170 @Gabe, I regularly defend you at AOSHQ. I can't do that now.

Sorry, but you're dead wrong here. I say that as an Eagle Scout with the Order of the Arrow award.

Get back to us when the first Boy Scout is raped by a gay scout leader and tries to sue the Boy Scouts out of existence, because that is the end game.

Posted by: Michael the Hobbit at July 28, 2015 02:18 PM (0RdKg)

171 145 Didn't know that. So what you're saying is that the NAACP used to be almost as white as a Bernie Sanders rally?
Posted by: Furious George at July 28, 2015 02:13 PM (UlJ3l)
started by jewish guys and a few republicans.
Didn't turn in to a liberal hate whitey group until last few generations.
Posted by: mynewhandle at July 28, 2015 02:14 PM (AkOaV)

True. And a little known fact.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at July 28, 2015 02:18 PM (oKE6c)

172 My nephew played on traveling baseball teams from the time he was about 8 years old. My brother or s-i-l always went with them, even though they mostly trusted the coaches and other parents. But you just don't ever know for sure.

Posted by: huerfano at July 28, 2015 02:19 PM (bynk/)

173 The Boy Scouts are over. Almost half of all Scouts are in troops chartered by the Mormons, the Catholics, or the Southern Baptists, with the largest number coming from the Mormons - close to 20% of all Scouts. The Baptists have already been cooling in their affiliation with BSA, and if the Mormons pull out, it will be the end.

Boy Scouts are a big deal for the Mormons - it's basically the youth program for teen boys. The problem for the church, however, is that many countries don't have a Scouting organization, so if they have to create a program for areas that don't have Scouts, and if they're not happy with the direction of BSA, why not just create their own program that can be used worldwide?

It's a shame - it's a rotten, dirty shame.

Posted by: biancaneve at July 28, 2015 02:19 PM (kBiy2)

174 I'm going to report this from the last thread because i think it is relevant here.

I just finished the To Kill a Mockingbird sequel, Go Set a Watchman and I quite liked it (although not as good as TKAM). The only positive review I read was from the NYT who said it ripped apart the myth of the South, created in part by TKAM, that only the white trash were racist scum but instead all southerners were racist scum. Now we see that Atticus himself is racist scum.

Not the book I read. Scout, now 26, comes back from NYC to visit her dad, apparently in the mid 1950s. She finds that racial relations have deteriorated badly which Atticus, and too an extent Scout also, view as caused by a recent Supreme Court decision (never expressly stated but I suspect it's Brown v. Board of Education). Both are offended by the court's disregard of the 10th amendment (and by the NAACP) but they react differently. Atticus joins a citizens committee intended to resist federal intrusion into local affairs and Scout, while offend by the court, believes that the change should be accepted. Atticus and Scout have a big fight and eventually learn to accept each other. Atticus is definitely a racist by today's standards but he is presented as a good, decent, wise, honest, and honorable man.

This book was, apparently, written in the 50s and it is interesting to look back at this depiction of southern attitudes from a perspective of 60 years. It is a moron-friendly book and I found the confrontation between Scout and Atticus to be very moving.

I thought this was relevant to the allegations of racism as reported in this thread.

Posted by: The Great White Snark at July 28, 2015 02:19 PM (XUKZU)

175 90 I wasn't a scout and have never been involved with it. So I'm asking because I just don't know.

Is it just 1 guy going camping with a bunch of 9 year old boys? Don't the parents of these kids go on the trips? Hell, if I had a kid that young, no way in hell I'm sending him off camping alone....gay leader, straight leader, whatever leader.
Posted by: HUCK / AKIN 2016 at July 28, 2015 02:04 PM (0LHZx)

Cub scouts? No. Parental involvement is a requirement. At least one parent or guardian must attend all meetings and events with your scout.

Boy Scouts? Different story. The older scouts are supposed to be working on honing their own leadership and self-sufficiency skills. There may be some troops that allow parents who aren't leaders to attend, but I don't think that's the majority.

Posted by: Mandy P., lurking lurker who lurks at July 28, 2015 02:19 PM (KkVB6)

176 Posted by: junior at July 28, 2015 02:13 PM (3m3mw)

Nope. If I'm forced out by this policy - not because they kick me out but because my conscience will not allow me to serve the organization once someone openly homosexual seeks to join the leadership of my pack - then I'm done. I cannot support the BSA in any way.

If my son liked BSA just a little less, I'd drop out now.

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - Not dead yet at July 28, 2015 02:19 PM (kff5f)

177 Form your own groups. It's not like the BSA has to have a monopoly.

That seems like a lot more work than throwing a tantrum until the government makes the BSA take you. (Nevermind fewer people would sign their kid up for the Gay Scouts...)

Posted by: HR braucht ein Bier at July 28, 2015 02:20 PM (/kI1Q)

178 85 It's the old frog in the warm water thing.... It's nice and warm and cozy so the frog doesn't notice until too late that He's boiled....

That's what's been slowly happening over the years... We've been anesthetized against things We ordinarily would be against like gay marriage, transgender kids, the glut of illegals, and every other social program they send our way..
Posted by: donna

Not true. In reality the frog always jumps.

Posted by: Charlemagne at July 28, 2015 02:20 PM (E9jDV)

179 BTW - Threadwinning material, here.

6
Incoming merit badge for "grooming"

Posted by: brak at July 28, 2015 01:42 PM (Tj+s6)

Posted by: rebel flounder at July 28, 2015 02:20 PM (Vf5rR)

180 I'm very open to gay rights due to my libertarian leanings. I've been in favor of gay marriage for 20 years. But I never had a problem with the Boy Scouts ban on gay troop leaders.

I certainly don't equate homosexuality to pediophila. But the way I look at it, the word for concern in "gay male" isn't "gay" but rather "male". I would no sooner trust a man or a couple of men to take my 13 year old daughter and her group out in the woods camping than I would a gay male to take my son when he gets to be that age.

I mean face it, as a gender, we have a relatively high percentage of freaking deviants. Wouldn't be rolling that dice with my kids.

Posted by: Headhunt23 at July 28, 2015 02:20 PM (3gdZP)

181 I'm an Eagle Scout but the BSA cowardice makes me want to cut up my card (which I never was thrilled about having Bill Clinton's stamped on signature on it).

The LDS (aka Mormon) Church is going to be reviewing their relationship with the BSA next month - if they leave then its going to leave a huge hole for them as I believe the largest Scout council and troops are in Utah. Here's hoping they do leave and make these worms squirm.

Posted by: Arcadehero at July 28, 2015 02:21 PM (xOH0X)

182 Again on the Electromagnetic Drive, this report covering yesterdays presentation explicitly says NASA performed tests of the drive in a vacuum and it worked.

http://bit.ly/1Ozq0JU

Posted by: MTF at July 28, 2015 02:21 PM (TxJGV)

183
btw, Im almost certain Gates said the exact same thing when he announced he and obama would allow open perverts to serve in the US military.

Posted by: Soothsayer II at July 28, 2015 02:21 PM (h0PFb)

184 My daughter will start traveling for ski competitions this winter. Which means I will start traveling for ski competitions as well. I'm glad she chose skiing over gymnastics!

Posted by: HUCK / AKIN 2016 at July 28, 2015 02:21 PM (0LHZx)

185 Maybe I'm over protective, but I wouldn't allow my kids to go on overnight trips without me or my wife present. Scouts, school trips, sporting events, whatever.

Posted by: HUCK / AKIN 2016 at July 28, 2015 02:14 PM (0LHZx)

Gee, you wouldn't even trust your kids on an overnight trip with your trusted manservant if he was accompanied by the head scullery maid?

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at July 28, 2015 02:21 PM (8ZskC)

186 Let's compromise. Homosexual Scout leaders? OK. But any of them caught diddling any boys under 18 - any boys, not just Scouts - are treated as having perpetrated a hate crime, and get a minimum of 20 years in the can. Deal?

Posted by: Jay Guevara at July 28, 2015 02:21 PM (oKE6c)

187 Many many gay theoriste and "queer" philosophers in the '70s, '80s and '90s persuasively argued that homosexuality was at its core a desire for adolescence -- that gayness and ephebophilia (sexual attraction to pubescent boys) were inextricably interlinked -- and many argued they were they same thing. Adult/adult gay sex was, according to the theorists, itself a sublimation of the true desire for adult/boy gay sex; gay adult only settle for having sex with other adults because they are not allowed access to boys by our social norms.

This isn't some kooky outsider's accusation -- this was the general consensus at the time.

Ever since, the movement has done its best to cover up that admission.

Posted by: zombie at July 28, 2015 02:22 PM (jBuUi)

188 I was a Cub Scout and started out to be a Boy Scout but my hormones got in the way. Mixers with Girl Troops would have helped retainment stats.

Posted by: Cruzinator at July 28, 2015 02:22 PM (KkliO)

189 Time for secret societies. Just exactly what the US was formed to do away with (well mostly)

When associations meet in secret they no longer have to concern themselves about the boundaries of civil society.

They, they're members and their families act in secret and in concert. Which is far worse than the alternative.

Government is forcing people to pray in secret and meet in secret and act in secret and that will breed secret anti government action.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That at July 28, 2015 02:22 PM (x3GpS)

190

I wonder how many will actually sign up.

I am assuming there have been gay Boy Scout and Girl Scout leaders throughout the history of the orgs, but back then, they kept to themselves.

I see mostly parents signing up for this.

Most of the pedo's I have read about, or knew about more personally, were after opposite sex children. It's all over the map.

None of the gay people I know diddle little girls and boys.

Pedo's aren't going to "come out of the closet." They'll be beat to death.

The Scouts should always have multiple adults to look over all the adults.

I don't know how to handle the teacher/student issue. It used to be mostly college level, now it's all ages. And, again, it's the opposite sex going after much younger of the opposite sex.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at July 28, 2015 02:22 PM (qCMvj)

191 Malor writes a bunch of legalese bullshit justifying the opposite point of view. It's his job. He's a lawyer.

His joyous celebration of gay marriage and shots at conservatives shows a very different face from his AOS posts.

Posted by: some random meathead at July 28, 2015 02:22 PM (QuNQQ)

192 At least one parent or guardian must attend all meetings and events with your scout.

It may be a requirement but it's enforced. I've seen too many kids dropped at the door and the parents drive off.

Posted by: wrg500 at July 28, 2015 02:23 PM (S+el1)

193 There is a gay gene. We haven't found it, but it's there. The science is settled.

Posted by: Michael Manntooth at July 28, 2015 02:23 PM (Mes9Q)

194 Oh, I guess the LDS angle was discussed a bit already. That's what I get for not reading the previous comments

Posted by: Arcadehero at July 28, 2015 02:23 PM (xOH0X)

195 So -- which is it? Is "sexual orientation" a nature thing? or a nurture thing?

And if being gay is totally nature, then being a pedophile is too, and we should not criminalize them for something they have no control over. Right?

(my feeling: both are a mix of nature/ nurture that varies wildly by person. But that's a hate crime to say)Posted by: mynewhandle at July 28, 2015 02:17 PM (AkOaV)It was only nature because that was politically expedient. Heck, radical feminists still argue that lesbianism is a political act, implying that one can choose to be a lesbian.When it becomes convenient again to claim that sexuality is fluid, they'll go back to asserting that being gay is a choice.

Posted by: Colorado Alex at July 28, 2015 02:24 PM (OiH3z)

196 I certainly don't equate homosexuality to pedophilia.

First, it's not pedophilia we're talking about, it's pederasty. And while (male) homosexuality does not equate to pederasty, pederasty is a wholly-contained subset of male homosexuality. That is, all pederasts are male homosexuals, by definition.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at July 28, 2015 02:24 PM (oKE6c)

197 Posted by: OneEyedJack at July 28, 2015 02:18 PM (XmOA9)

I tried to get in to a club the other night.

Bouncer said it was full.

Then a gaggle of hot girls in their early 20s walked by, an WHOA wouldn't you know it, they had just enough capacity to let them in.

But not me and my group of 3.

That is discrimination based on sex, no? Should I have sued the bouncer and called him abhorrent for discriminating based on sex in a public accommodation?

How about my favorite bar down the street? On Tuesdays, WOMEN drink for half off. But as a man, I have to pay full price. Is that not discrimination?

And according to Gabe and his calling it abhorrent, should I boycott then sue the bar?

Posted by: mynewhandle at July 28, 2015 02:24 PM (AkOaV)

198 @Gabe, my apologies. After re-reading your post several times, I think that I was wrong and that you're arguing against public accommodation laws being applied to the Boy Scouts.

My sincerest apologies.

I get what you're saying about leaving the matter up to individual troops, instead of the organization as a whole.

On the other hand, if you support the Boy Scouts being able to determine who and who isn't a morally fit candidate to serve in a leadership position, then come out and say it up front. Really, it would save you a lot of trouble and misinterpretation.

Posted by: Michael the Hobbit at July 28, 2015 02:25 PM (0RdKg)

199 Cub scouts? No. Parental involvement is a requirement. At least one parent or guardian must attend all meetings and events with your scout.

Not quite.

Tiger Cubs (1st graders) require a Registered Adult to be present at all official functions.

Everyone else does not, with the exception of camp outs. However, camp outs are limited in scope and number.

Webelos (and now the Arrow of Light rank - don't get me started) do not require a parent for camps, and may attend resident camps (that is- multi-night camp outs).

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - Not dead yet at July 28, 2015 02:25 PM (kff5f)

200 Kids will get hurt. Badly. But hey, at least the lawyers will be able to successfully sue on behalf of the victims. $

Posted by: some random meathead at July 28, 2015 02:25 PM (QuNQQ)

201 [And if being gay is totally nature, then being a pedophile is too,
and we should not criminalize them for something they have no control
over. Right?

You betcha. I'm a martyr for the cause!

Posted by: John Wayne Gacy at July 28, 2015 02:25 PM (oKE6c)

202 I find it much more disturbing to allow openly gay 12 year olds in a scout troop than allowing openly gay adult troop leaders.

Posted by: mugiwara at July 28, 2015 02:25 PM (HLfuT)

203 Unfortunately many parent in my experience as a
scout leader use Cub and Boy Scouts as a baby sitting service and have
little dealings with the troop. My son's troop had about 70 boys in it
with a core group of fathers of about 8 to 12 helping and 6 to 8 on any
given camping trip.

Posted by: wrg500 at July 28, 2015 02:16 PM (S+el1)

This is sooo true. We made parents participation a requirement to have a kid in the troop. Once the dad's go on a camp out with their son, they usually are hooked. Of course, exception are made for kids from divorces, etc. We found that the dad just needs a push to make it happen. The sons really appreciate the push. Some of these kids barely know their dads.

Amish, I am not talking about den mothers, that has always been a Cub Scout thing. Now many troop have women leaders, I know, strange shit, but they usually work hard at it. I take nothing away from their service. Also the Explorer, a branch of the Scouts, actively recruit it girls to join.

Shit our Order of the Arrow has women members.

Posted by: Nip Sip at July 28, 2015 02:26 PM (0FSuD)

204 So now I get to explain to my son that he may not
get to be a scout for much longer. The *one* extra-curricular activity
he's ever been in that he loved, and I'm probably going to have to take
him out of it.

Thanks, BSA. Thanks a lot.

(My personal position is this - as long as it's not an issue, it's
not an issue. National Council can take a flying leap for all I care.
The moment it's an issue, we're out.)

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - Not dead yet at July 28, 2015 02:05 PM (kff5f)

***********************
AllenG, you can look at another troop in your area. Don't let the SJW's hurt your son.

Posted by: Jon Stewart at July 28, 2015 02:26 PM (5f5bM)

205 Posted by: Headhunt23 at July 28, 2015 02:20 PM (3gdZP)

good points

I just have to add what I mentioned earlier. So many female teachers are having sex with the younger students.

It seems to be getting worse.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at July 28, 2015 02:27 PM (qCMvj)

206 The issue here isn't the homo leaders' access to 9 year olds. That's not what they're after. They want the 14 year olds.

Posted by: Jon Stewart at July 28, 2015 02:27 PM (5f5bM)

207 202
I find it much more disturbing to allow openly gay 12 year olds in a scout troop than allowing openly gay adult troop leaders.

Posted by: mugiwara at July 28, 2015 02:25 PM (HLfuT)

Most kids at 12 have no clue if they are ghey and are usually acting out. The fake ghey 12 year old has a hard time getting anyone to sleep in his tent.
They usually quit ASAP.

Posted by: Nip Sip at July 28, 2015 02:27 PM (0FSuD)

208 193 There is a gay gene. We haven't found it, but it's there. The science is settled.
Posted by: Michael Manntooth
------------------------------

Once they come up with a DNA test, Planned Parenthood will be awash in crunchy bits.

Posted by: ISIS and Co. at July 28, 2015 02:27 PM (VndSC)

209 "This has been a long time coming."

When the pendulum swings back the other way I will say the same thing.

Posted by: Achilles at July 28, 2015 02:27 PM (TpeIH)

210 Off sock, I haven't been Jon Stewart for several days now!

Posted by: Caesar North of the Rubicon at July 28, 2015 02:28 PM (5f5bM)

211 The problem here is selection bias. Not expecting a pederasty problem from homosexual Scoutmasters is like not expecting a magnet to attract iron filings.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at July 28, 2015 02:28 PM (oKE6c)

212
If we have "openly gay" 12 yr olds in this country we have BIG PROBLEMS in our rotten culture.

Posted by: Soothsayer II at July 28, 2015 02:28 PM (h0PFb)

213 Why have the Boy Scouts "faced increasing pressure from businesses and municipalities to drop the ban"?

What is this pressure, and why is it more important than protecting boys?

Posted by: pam at July 28, 2015 02:29 PM (EAZ7y)

214 As it stands, I have no idea what to do. My son is
in cub scouts and loves it and has made a lot of friends. Scouting has
been important for us because we home school and it's been a positive
source of socialization for the kids. If I pull him he will be extremely
upset.

Posted by: Mandy P., lurking lurker who lurks at July 28, 2015 02:04 PM (KkVB6)
------Mandy P., I am den leader for a troop chartered with a local Catholic parish. No one has mentioned letting gay leaders in. First thing to inquire is what is the chartering organization's position? That is the one troop or pack will have to meet, regardless of National's votes. I would not pull your son from cub scouts unless the pack goes a way you don't want them too. There are also other packs. Someone (and i think more than one) upthread has suggested LDS and I would say Catholic Church as well. I don't see them permitting gay leaders.

Posted by: Penfold at July 28, 2015 02:29 PM (Fbt5B)

215

Thanks for filling in for Ace, Gabe.

I hadn't read why Ace is away. Holiday?

I hope so.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at July 28, 2015 02:29 PM (qCMvj)

216 Discrimination on the basis of race, religion, national origin, sex, and sexual orientation is abhorrent

Wow - so the Ancient Order of Hibernians who were formed in support of Irish Catholics are now 'abhorrent' and must be forced to accept Muslims a members ? Freedom of Association now out the window ?

Posted by: McCool at July 28, 2015 02:29 PM (nCSwS)

217 we have BIG PROBLEMS in our rotten culture.

You don't say!

Posted by: Planned Parenthood ghoul, chomping on some crunchy bits at July 28, 2015 02:29 PM (sxq57)

218 If we have "openly gay" 12 yr olds in this country we have BIG PROBLEMS in our rotten culture.

Posted by: Soothsayer II

Yes, and yes, we do have big problems in our rotten culture.

Posted by: Moderate Salami, weeping for our Republic at July 28, 2015 02:30 PM (/Ho8c)

219 Something's got to provide the electromagnetic force so the idea of no fuel is wrong. There MAY be energy conservations somewhere but this is like saying an electric car is emission less. It's true that it isn't but it does require electricity generated by an emission source.

This is the same thing.

Of course further experimentation and doing so IN SPACE may reveal other factors.

I've always felt that we will not discover FTL until we can get beyond the solar envelope.

The physics my be different out there or there may be forces in play that cannot be used here close to such a large nuclear fusion and gravitational source as the sun.

*all I wanted was to see a flying car. Now I won't even get a Mars expedition*

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That at July 28, 2015 02:30 PM (x3GpS)

220 Lurker. We've got a dude on these Malor threads who (to coopt his own indirect approach) can't and won't stop his troll-like posts. Seriously, the rhetoric and behavior I'm seeing displayed is not that of a reasonable person who disagrees with Gabe or one who is (rightly.considering Gabes twitterage) offended by him. This is behavior more in line with a jilted lover or stalker than anything else.

Posted by: goodgrief at July 28, 2015 02:30 PM (RCkqB)

221 My sense of it is that the BSA have become the go to place for parents hoping to 'change' their son into something, well, normal. My son lasted a year and wanted out because he felt he was being used to babysit so many 'psychotropic druggies' within the troop. What I saw did not compare to the Boy Scouts I experienced. My son agreed to play baseball on two teams that spring, summer and fall. It was a better deal playing with competitive guys his age instead of dealing with the cabbage heads.

Posted by: Super Creepy Eric Hoteham at July 28, 2015 02:30 PM (tC2zT)

222 206 The issue here isn't the homo leaders' access to 9 year olds. That's not what they're after. They want the 14 year olds.
Posted by: Jon Stewart

Yes -- agreed.

There is a difference between pedophilia (sexual attraction to pre-pubescents) and ephebophilia (sexual attraction to underage post-pubescents.) Most "child molestors" are in fact ephebophiliacs. True pedophiles are rather rare.

Posted by: zombie at July 28, 2015 02:30 PM (jBuUi)

223 213
Why have the Boy Scouts "faced increasing pressure from businesses and municipalities to drop the ban"?

What is this pressure, and why is it more important than protecting boys?

Posted by: pam at July 28, 2015 02:29 PM (EAZ7y)

The ghey polesse. Gabe knows all about them, they outed donors to the CA ban on ghey marriages, and I didn't hear any complaint about it from him.

Posted by: Nip Sip at July 28, 2015 02:30 PM (0FSuD)

224 When it becomes convenient again to claim that sexuality is fluid, they'll go back to asserting that being gay is a choice.
Posted by: Colorado Alex at July 28, 2015 02:24 PM (OiH3z)

Okay, so if sexuality is fluid, is gender fluid?

Because if gender IS fluid, then Bruce Jenners doctor should go to jail for medical malpractice.

Because just because Bruce identifies as Caitlyn now, he may some day again want to identify as Bruce.

The thing is -- the only way for the political acceptance of all of this stuff is to make people feel bad for homosexuals / transsexuals by thinking "there but for the grace of God, go I. Poor thing was born in the wrong body." (or whatever)

If they start saying, "shit it's all fluid. Sometimes I'm gay, sometimes I'm a woman, sometimes I'm _______" then it no longer looks like discrimination based on immutable characteristics, but rather people "discriminating" against certain BEHAVIORS, which I think we can all agree is very different.

Posted by: mynewhandle at July 28, 2015 02:31 PM (AkOaV)

225 Gabe,

I find your views on "public accommodation" laws to be entirely correct and refreshing.

Thanks for that. You are right, the right to associate also carries with it the right to disassociate and aside from necessary life-giving essentials, such as food and shelter, private persons and orgs can meet with and serve whomever they please.

Posted by: prescient11 at July 28, 2015 02:31 PM (q5APL)

226 find it much more disturbing to allow openly gay 12 year olds in a scout troop than allowing openly gay adult troop leaders.
Posted by: mugiwara

I agree. I fear a sexualized teenager more than an adult. Although anyone can be a predator.

Posted by: Jean at July 28, 2015 02:31 PM (ztOda)

227 Many many gay theoriste and "queer" philosophers in
the '70s, '80s and '90s persuasively argued that homosexuality was at
its core a desire for adolescence -- that gayness and ephebophilia
(sexual attraction to pubescent boys) were inextricably interlinked --
and many argued they were they same thing. Adult/adult gay sex was,
according to the theorists, itself a sublimation of the true desire for
adult/boy gay sex; gay adult only settle for having sex with other
adults because they are not allowed access to boys by our social norms.

This isn't some kooky outsider's accusation -- this was the general consensus at the time.

Ever since, the movement has done its best to cover up that admission.

Posted by: zombie at July 28, 2015 02:22 PM (jBuUi)

Oh, we'll hear it again. NAMBLA is warming up in the bullpen, and is probably at least one of the parties behind (?) this decision by the Scouts.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at July 28, 2015 02:31 PM (oKE6c)

228 197
Posted by: OneEyedJack at July 28, 2015 02:18 PM (XmOA9)

I tried to get in to a club the other night.

Bouncer said it was full.

Then a gaggle of hot girls in their early 20s walked by, an WHOA
wouldn't you know it, they had just enough capacity to let them in.

But not me and my group of 3.

That is discrimination based on sex, no? Should I have sued the
bouncer and called him abhorrent for discriminating based on sex in a
public accommodation?

How about my favorite bar down the street? On Tuesdays, WOMEN drink
for half off. But as a man, I have to pay full price. Is that not
discrimination?

And according to Gabe and his calling it abhorrent, should I boycott then sue the bar?

Posted by: mynewhandle at July 28, 2015 02:24 PM (AkOaV)

**************
I am just waiting for the end of women's athletics under Title IX. It is blatantly discriminatory, and when trans athletes are allowed/mandated to participate with the sex with which they self-identify, that will be the end. It would serve them right to be hoist on their own petards.

Posted by: Caesar North of the Rubicon at July 28, 2015 02:31 PM (5f5bM)

229 The BSA has been on a downward spiral for the last couple of decades, as they let more and more female leaders into decision making. It became more about status and awards then about character and masculine activities.
And with this as the final straw, both my sons are no longer in Scouts and the BSA leadership will know why.

Posted by: Ostar at July 28, 2015 02:32 PM (gc83Y)

230 "So Gabe are you in favor of repealing the Civil Rights Act of 1964?"

I think we already know the answer to that. The role of a good conservative is to slice the salami so think that you oppose the "abuse" of public accomodation laws in a totally toothless way that changes nothing.

Posted by: bjk at July 28, 2015 02:32 PM (x2rNW)

231 Any bets that now the scouts allow Gays in all rolls, that the ban will be retained nonetheless?

Posted by: The Political Hat at July 28, 2015 01:57 PM (/YkzI)

Given that BSA will soon be known for its pederasty scandals ... I have no qualms with keeping the ban. Just ban the organization and get it over with.

Posted by: ConservativeMonster at July 28, 2015 02:32 PM (0NdlF)

232 193
There is a gay gene. We haven't found it, but it's there. The science is settled.

Posted by: Michael Manntooth at July 28, 2015 02:23 PM (Mes9Q)

No. Now that gay marriage is law, they tell us it does not matter, because troubles over the "pedo gene." See, they have their cake. They would like to eat it, too.

Posted by: rebel flounder at July 28, 2015 02:32 PM (Vf5rR)

233 Of course as a kid of 10 or so, I went all over town on my bike. No one (I think) worried where I was. Went with friends, but this was a village of about 3000, Not a big city. Can't even walk to school anymore at that age.

Posted by: Colin at July 28, 2015 02:33 PM (ui6x3)

234
Anybody here seen my old friend Ace?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
He freed lotta morons but it seems the good they die young
You know I just looked around & he's gone...
Oooo! Oooo! Oooo!

Posted by: Bruce With a Wang! at July 28, 2015 02:33 PM (iQIUe)

235 In our area, the exodus from Scouts started last year, when anyone with a brain could see the writing on the wall.

Troops of St. George is thriving, and several dads keep up activities informally - camping, hunting, etc.

I suspect that this will be the final nail in the coffin for our parish troop.

Posted by: J Anne at July 28, 2015 02:33 PM (5rbdR)

236
*sigh*
Damn, I weary of this. People are playing into the gheystapo agenda by throwing the word 'Pedophile' around. They do it because it rightly carries an abhorrent, heinous meaning, and they think that flinging the label will bring immediate condemnation of the individual to which it is attached.

The problem is, the gheystapo will celebrate your doing so, for the simple reason that it deflects from the actual circumstance. Pedophiles, by definition, engage pre-pubescent children, of either sex. That is NOT what is happening in the case of homosexuals preying on young post-pubescent boys.

By flinging the 'pedophile' label, one simply exempts the homosexual predator from the 'normal' family of homosexuals, and in fact removes the person from the homosexual community altogether. They are transported to the community of the mentally ill.

When you describe a homosexual predator as a 'pedophile', as awful as that is, you are giving them a pass. It is, in an inverted way, analogous to the media describing Zimmerman as a 'white hispanic'.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at July 28, 2015 02:33 PM (9mTYi)

237 I believe the Boy Scouts, as a private institution, should be able to exclude or include anyone they want as a scout leader. At the same time, if I were a male girl scout leader, attracted to women, I wouldn't have sex with underage girls in my troupe, I'm not a pedophile. Are some saying that gay scout leaders, attracted to men, would have sex with their male scouts just because they are gay?

Posted by: Dr Spank at July 28, 2015 02:33 PM (TJCSB)

238 The Boy Scouts should just do what most other countries do and make them co-ed.

No, we need more choices of types of scout troops, kinda like the University of California is doing:

"One new question posed to those seeking admittance to the system - which educates 233,000 students enrolled in 10 campuses statewide - is 'How do you describe yourself? (Mark one answer).'

"The choices are: 'male; female; trans male/trans man; trans female/trans woman; gender queer/gender non-conforming; and different identity.'"

We need Gender Queer/Gender Non-conforming Scouts etc.

Posted by: The Great White Snark at July 28, 2015 02:33 PM (XUKZU)

239 Let's see baby parts and gay scout leader threads and I'm at the lake and heat index is 120. Oh, what the hell, YOLO. Lake it is.

Posted by: olddog in mo at July 28, 2015 02:34 PM (HfoJ0)

240 Posted by: goodgrief at July 28, 2015 02:30 PM (RCkqB)

Gabe has pissed off a lot of people in his time at the hq.

Personally, I think reading his pieces.

Don't usually agree, but I think Gabe has well thought out arguments (even if I think they're wrong) which is always refreshing to read.

But I understand why people could maybe not be a big fan of someone who has called them sexist, homophobic, and most recently essentially called them closeted KKK members for being against unlimited illegal aliens in the US.

Posted by: mynewhandle at July 28, 2015 02:34 PM (AkOaV)

241 OK, off to Verizon store. I debated this yesterday with Scout leaders, and I am sick of the entire thing.

Some of the squishes on our board amaze me. Yes, they ARE Yankees. Sorry.

Posted by: Nip Sip at July 28, 2015 02:34 PM (0FSuD)

242 "Once they come up with a DNA test, Planned Parenthood will be awash in crunchy bits."

I have often wondered if in any other animal besides humans, would we consider this gene to be a defect?

And even in humans, if the goal of any species is the survival of the species, how would a geneticist look upon a "Gay" gene?

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at July 28, 2015 02:34 PM (VPLuQ)

243 -- The modern trend to declare everything a public accommodation, including membership organizations that any idiot can see are private groups, abandons the notion that people have a right to associate with only those who they care to and also to not associate with those those they don't. --

Freedom of association strikes me as one of the inherent rights of human life: indispensable to any society, much less one that calls itself "free." But as long as persons who trumpet that "The personal is the political!" have the reins of power, the only rights that will be honored are the right to an abortion, the right to anal sex, and the right to agree with them.

Posted by: Francis W. Porretto at July 28, 2015 02:34 PM (d2g9U)

244 AllenG, you can look at another troop in your area. Don't let the SJW's hurt your son.

Nope.

I have to balance two conflicting pieces of my morality.

1) My belief that homosexual leadership (which is distinct and different from participation) is immoral and cannot be supported.

2) My belief that God is God of the Just, and part of Justice is keeping one's commitments (specifically, that I committed to being the Committee Chair).

At the moment, the balance leans (by the slightest of margins) to the side of Justice/Commitment. But once I am faced with the choice of either holding up an openly sexual man (or woman) as someone whose life is worthy of emulation to a group of young, naturally aspirational boys or discarding my commitment, the balance will swing the other way.

Once that happens, how can I support the BSA at any level? How can I spend any part of my life (for money = time = life) supporting such an organization?

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - Not dead yet at July 28, 2015 02:34 PM (kff5f)

245 236 Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc.

See my comments #187 and #222.

Posted by: zombie at July 28, 2015 02:35 PM (jBuUi)

246 Shouldn't be long before it's the Boys, Girls and LGBT Scouts of America. With LGBT leaders.

We Are So Screwed

Posted by: Hank at July 28, 2015 02:35 PM (LpJen)

247 errr... "...openly homosexual man..."

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - Not dead yet at July 28, 2015 02:35 PM (kff5f)

248 The problem here is selection bias.

Yep. The gay marriage issue was supported by most gays only as a lever to undermine traditional marriage. Few gays were actually interested in being married. It was all about getting a nihilistic thrill out of sticking it to The Man.

In the same vein, I don't foresee gays lining up to be scoutmasters. However, the few that do should be watched like hawks, since most of them are likely to be there for the "boy," part, not the "scout" part.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at July 28, 2015 02:36 PM (8ZskC)

249 I'm beginning to think I'm too old for this.... Don't seem to fit in with the new "norm."

Posted by: donna at July 28, 2015 02:36 PM (hUdMz)

250 144 The Gramscian goal of this is, in the long run, to completely destroy the Boy Scouts as an organization.

The people who pushed for this ruling WANT molestation scandals to happen. They WANT the Scouts to be sued into oblivion by the parents of boys who get molested.

That is the entire purpose of "The Long March": to infiltrate organizations not to assume and maintain control of them but specifically to corrupt and thereby destroy them from within.
Posted by: zombie at July 28, 2015 02:14 PM (jBuUi)

As a devout Catholic, this. All of this. I cannot tell you how damn frustrating it is for every single objection to our insistence in holding to doctrine to be, "But the Prieeeeeesssstssss scandal!!!"

And now we've got the Lavendar Mafia that's infiltrated the hierarchy to the point where serious Catholics are worried they're going to try and change practice so as to make actual doctrine irrelevant.

It's a mess.

Posted by: Mandy P., lurking lurker who lurks at July 28, 2015 02:37 PM (KkVB6)

251 I look forward to the many, many lawsuits by survivors of gay sexual abuse in the Scouts. Putting gay men around young boys is like putting men in their twenties and thirties around teen girls, unsupervised. Its a bad idea.

Its basically the death of the Scouts, the whole point. Gays will rush in to become leaders (and behave like a whole lot of Catholic Priests) and every mother with a brain will pull her boy out so he's not molested.

If we are going to be blunt and honest and without the BS that gays like to throw out. No parent would want their daughter in her teen years unsupervised with adult straight males; why would they want their son to be molested? Those Catholic Priests were not straight, and their victims were 90% boys.

Straight men like to have sex with teen girls. Gay men like to have sex with pre-pubescent boys. Both ought to be forbidden by a sane society. But PC culture worships gays as tragic victims and ignores the reality of their sex drive.

Posted by: Whiskey at July 28, 2015 02:37 PM (PO8w6)

252 What's the over and under on years for a big sexual abuse case by some group of Boy Scout adult supervisors?

Posted by: Skip at July 28, 2015 02:38 PM (CFAPf)

253 237 I believe the Boy Scouts, as a private institution, should be able to exclude or include anyone they want as a scout leader. At the same time, if I were a male girl scout leader, attracted to women, I wouldn't have sex with underage girls in my troupe, I'm not a pedophile. Are some saying that gay scout leaders, attracted to men, would have sex with their male scouts just because they are gay?
Posted by: Dr Spank at July 28, 2015 02:33 PM (TJCSB)

No, but a large number of men (straight or gay) are attracted to (or would at least act upon advances from) teenagers.

I don't know what the percentages are or the statistics, but suffice to say that I would not want my 15 year old daughter alone somewhere with a grown man.

95% chance it would be perfectly innocent.

But.... I don't want to gamble unnecessarily with my kids lives like that.

Posted by: mynewhandle at July 28, 2015 02:38 PM (AkOaV)

254 226 find it much more disturbing to allow openly gay 12 year olds in a scout troop than allowing openly gay adult troop leaders.
Posted by: mugiwara

I agree. I fear a sexualized teenager more than an adult. Although anyone can be a predator.
Posted by: Jean at July 28, 2015 02:31 PM (ztOda)

Really? I can't recall one story about a straight teen being seduced by a gay teen or sexually bullied by a gay teen. I suppose it could happen but I have no anecdotal info I'm aware of. It's the power of an adult that would worry me.

Posted by: Cruzinator at July 28, 2015 02:38 PM (KkliO)

255 How about my favorite bar down the street? On Tuesdays, WOMEN drink for half off. But as a man, I have to pay full price. Is that not discrimination?

I think but don't know for sure, that some court case somewhere said NO to that, and the response of the bar owners has been to offer discounts for "skirt" night. Even better for the men in the place that know women will be wearing skirts to get the discount, but not for the bars, because I personally saw a bunch of men show up in skirts to get the discount. It was done for shits and giggles, cuz morons, but still.

Posted by: OneEyedJack at July 28, 2015 02:38 PM (XmOA9)

256 >>> so if they have to create a program for areas that don't have Scouts, and if they're not happy with the direction of BSA, why not just create their own program that can be used worldwide?

I suppose its a good thought problem: How would you improve upon Scouting? What changes or improvements do you expect would help the new org in replacing the old?

Posted by: Bigby's Reacharound at July 28, 2015 02:38 PM (3ZtZW)

257 Can't wait for gopEdaddy to go off the "base" of the repukes if they lose in aught 16.

The rant should be epic.

Posted by: Tim in Illinois. Proud owner of Luap Nor's Last Brain Cell at July 28, 2015 02:38 PM (1aNPq)

258 Discrimination on the basis of race, religion, national origin, sex, and sexual orientation is abhorrent

-
Maybe, but fascism is worse.

Posted by: The Great White Snark at July 28, 2015 02:39 PM (XUKZU)

259 Where this really leads back to is the notion that white heterosexual men have to "feel" bad about excluding any group, but that onus to be inclusive only goes one way.

Sorry. My "Feel Meter" is broken. And it's so old, repair parts are no longer made.

Posted by: rickb223 at July 28, 2015 02:39 PM (jTo7g)

260 I wouldn't allow my kids to go on overnight trips without me or my wife present. Scouts, school trips, sporting events, whatever.

When they get a little older, this is hard to maintain. My mom was paranoid as hell when I was a kid, but I know there were plenty of church/school/band/whatever trips..

Posted by: Lea at July 28, 2015 02:39 PM (lIU4e)

261 What if Ace is off being "jennerized"?

Posted by: Bruce With a Wang! at July 28, 2015 02:39 PM (iQIUe)

262
I'm beginning to think I'm too old for this.... Don't seem to fit in with the new "norm."

Asking a 12 year old what sex they think they want to be, I'm out of here also....

Posted by: Colin at July 28, 2015 02:39 PM (ui6x3)

263 Have we started voting against our own "self interests" yet? I always get a kick out of that line.

Posted by: Tim in Illinois. Proud owner of Luap Nor's Last Brain Cell at July 28, 2015 02:39 PM (1aNPq)

264 @Super Creepy Eric Hoteham -

I am seeing some more of that, but at the cub scout level, I am seeing kids that are atypical and parents that want them to be "normal". They aren't necessarily drugged up, but some are ASD or ADHD. Some parents are almost at their wits end when they try scouts and for some kids it works. It gives them an outlet, socialization and gets them outside and camping and hiking and learning to be a good citizen. And the parents get to step aside a bit and not have to be dealing with their kids.

Posted by: Penfold at July 28, 2015 02:40 PM (Fbt5B)

265 how would a geneticist look upon a "Gay" gene?
Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice
---------------

Degenerate.
By definition.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at July 28, 2015 02:40 PM (9mTYi)

266 I'm pretty sure Sidney @32 understands now what a cuckservative is.

Posted by: Endless sorry at July 28, 2015 02:40 PM (cWRzJ)

267 Posted by: Whiskey at July 28, 2015 02:37 PM (PO8w6)

Let me put it this way -- I'm in my late 20s, and I recently was at a company event where a coworkers daughter (she was 15 or 16) was hitting on me HARD.

Flirting in a way no girl has flirted with me since, well, high school.

Now of course I politely rebuffed her advances for a whole host of reasons, but would every guy have done the same in my shoes? I don't know.

Posted by: mynewhandle at July 28, 2015 02:40 PM (AkOaV)

268 >>What if Ace is off being "jennerized"?

Or learning to be a Scout leader.

Posted by: JackStraw at July 28, 2015 02:40 PM (OGm46)

269 "Born This Way" wins the day.

Posted by: Tattoo De Plane at July 28, 2015 02:41 PM (nCKKS)

270 If a gay man had adopted a child and the child was of Scouting age I could understand a desire to get involved with the Troop, but for a gay man without an adopted child what reason other than pedophilia could he have for getting involved?

For what its worth (and given that its him, probably not much) Gore Vidal postulated in his autobiography that all young people are to some extant capable of hetero or homo sexual attraction, based upon his own experiences, but that a decision tended to be made at some point in adolescence.

Posted by: MTF at July 28, 2015 02:41 PM (TxJGV)

271 http://www.businessinsider.com/barack-obama-jokes-about-winning-third-term-ethiopia-2015-7

What an asshole.

Posted by: cajun caret at July 28, 2015 02:42 PM (UZQM8)

272 As for Ace.... I heard there's a Hobo Safari in Baltimore...

Posted by: Mr Wizard at July 28, 2015 02:42 PM (eOpVe)

273 As a 8 year old boy I did play house and had a doll house, does that make me gay?

Posted by: Colin at July 28, 2015 02:42 PM (ui6x3)

274 Posted by: OneEyedJack at July 28, 2015 02:38 PM (XmOA9)

I believe that was a NJ state court decision IIRC.

Posted by: mynewhandle at July 28, 2015 02:42 PM (AkOaV)

275 I wanna become a girl scout leader.

Posted by: Dr. Earl Bradley at July 28, 2015 02:42 PM (hpUHg)

276 Speaking of gay leaders, Tom Brady's suspension was just upheld by Goddell.

Posted by: JackStraw at July 28, 2015 02:42 PM (OGm46)

277 >>>Discrimination on the basis of race, religion, national origin, sex, and sexual orientation is abhorrent.

Oh come off it Gabe. This isn't about "discrimination". As has been pointed out above, do you think it would fly to let heterosexual men lead girl scout troops?

This is about enacting measures to ensure the safety of the children involved. To think that the wounded pride of a bunch of activists should be allowed to trump the safety of these kids is abhorrent.

Posted by: Kevin Jennings at July 28, 2015 02:42 PM (E5UB0)

278 Discrimination on the basis of race, religion, national origin, sex, and sexual orientation is abhorrent

Unfair perhaps, inefficient certainly. Abhorrent, hmm. I would have to disagree. Tolerate the tolerable is my motto, which implies that there exist a class of things intolerable.

Posted by: Grump928(c) at July 28, 2015 02:43 PM (evdj2)

279 273 As a 8 year old boy I did play house and had a doll house, does that make me gay?
Posted by: Colin
-----------------

No, just "questioning".

Posted by: Roy at July 28, 2015 02:43 PM (VndSC)

280 Posted by: Dr Spank at July 28, 2015 02:33 PM (TJCSB

Yes. Unfortunately I had a person I knew from my Frat that used his position as a Youth sports coach to seduce some of his players. He was trusted by the parents and his actions were not discovered until after he had committed suicide after being caught embezzling money from the association.

Posted by: Cruzinator at July 28, 2015 02:43 PM (KkliO)

281 Get back to us when the first Boy Scout is raped by a gay scout leader and tries to sue the Boy Scouts out of existence, because that is the end game.

Posted by: Michael the Hobbit at July 28, 2015 02:18 PM (0RdKg)

Any bets it'll the opposite?

Scout accuses Gay Scout Leader of molestation, then is kicked out of the Scouts for homophobia and even accused of criminal H8 crimes (libel, harassment, defamation of character, &c.)...

Posted by: The Political Hat at July 28, 2015 02:43 PM (/YkzI)

282 I'm beginning to think I'm too old for this.... Don't seem to fit in with the new "norm."
Posted by: donna
--------------

"This ain't no country for old men" - Tommy Lee Jones

Probably for old women either.

The decay of society is a sad, sad thing to watch.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at July 28, 2015 02:43 PM (9mTYi)

283 "I heard there's a Hobo Safari in Baltimore..."

No....those gunshots aren't directed at Hobos.

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at July 28, 2015 02:43 PM (VPLuQ)

284 255 How about my favorite bar down the street? On Tuesdays, WOMEN drink for half off.
========================

What bar?

Posted by: Man Who Likes Women Wearing Clothes Half Off at July 28, 2015 02:43 PM (TxJGV)

285 Anybody seen DrewM lately?

http://www.weaselzippers.us/?p=230245

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at July 28, 2015 02:44 PM (VPLuQ)

286 Gore Vidal postulated in his autobiography that all young people are to some extant capable of hetero or homo sexual attraction, based upon his own experiences, but that a decision tended to be made at some point in adolescence.

Because he was a homo. Equally, I postulate that they are not, based on my experience.

Posted by: Grump928(c) at July 28, 2015 02:44 PM (evdj2)

287 242
"Once they come up with a DNA test, Planned Parenthood will be awash in crunchy bits."

I have often wondered if in any other animal besides humans, would we consider this gene to be a defect?

And even in humans, if the goal of any species is the survival of the species, how would a geneticist look upon a "Gay" gene?

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at July 28, 2015 02:34 PM (VPLuQ)

*******************
VIA, I discussed this with a Ph.D. geneticist once. He said that any trait that tends to render its holders nonreproductive would never be more than about 2-3% of a population, no matter how strong the mutation. A population can't sustain much more than that. (This was in the context of the 10% claim, popularized by Kinsey et al.). Lo and behold, the most recent surveys from UCLA and NIH tell us that about 2% of the population is homosexual and another percent or so is bisexual. They are a tiny, but obviously powerful minority, who are given their influence by the rest of us.So if there is a genetic predisposition for the behavior, it seems to correlate with what would be expected by population genetics. Now, just because two men have an innate urge to put their things in each other's bungholes, that doesn't mean it should be a behavior that is mainstreamed. It is deviant and rare, and should not be celebrated. IMO, the reason that the leftists latch onto this group so strongly is that by pushing their agenda they work toward their goal of destroying the foundations of society so that they can be remade. How's that fundamental transformation working out?

Posted by: Caesar North of the Rubicon at July 28, 2015 02:44 PM (5f5bM)

288 As a 8 year old boy I did play house and had a doll house, does that make me gay?

Not if the house was a pillbox and the doll had a plastic bazooka.

Posted by: eleven at July 28, 2015 02:45 PM (ykfyK)

289 As a 8 year old boy I did play house and had a doll house, does that make me gay?

Um, yes.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at July 28, 2015 02:45 PM (8ZskC)

290 Remember that this crap was started by AT&T CEO Randall Stephenson and followed thru on by Robert Gates.

We saw this coming 3 years ago when they started with the gay scouts. We knew it would not be long before it was leaders too. I stuck with it long enough to get my oldest to Eagle and then left.

It's sad and I feel betrayed by the BSA but I got over the anger a couple of years ago. Now I want revenge. So FU ATT and everyone else trying to destroy my country. Expect no sympathy or charity from me.

Posted by: f'd at July 28, 2015 02:45 PM (KvWlw)

291 Wow - so the Ancient Order of Hibernians who were formed in support of Irish Catholics are now 'abhorrent' and must be forced to accept Muslims a members ? Freedom of Association now out the window ?

Posted by: McCool at July 28, 2015 02:29 PM (nCSwS)

Yes. Yes it is. As Gabe ably pointed out there are good reasons for some businesses to be unable to discriminate. But we've lost all sense of freedom of association in this country, not all at once, and not for everybody, and so as others have used the frog-boil analogy, now it's too late.

For some, but not all.
And that's my main complaint, that some groups are allowed that freedom and some aren't in truth means it is not a freedom.
It is a grant from tyrannical government, to be dispensed at will and whim.

Posted by: OneEyedJack at July 28, 2015 02:46 PM (XmOA9)

292
Then a gaggle of hot girls in their early 20s walked by, an WHOA wouldn't you know it, they had just enough capacity to let them in.

.......................

Got the address? *hic*

Posted by: Hillary Clinton at July 28, 2015 02:46 PM (HSmrB)

293 @254
Really? I can't recall one story about a straight teen being seduced by a gay teen or sexually bullied by a gay teen. I suppose it could happen but I have no anecdotal info I'm aware of. It's the power of an adult that would worry me.
---------------------

Part of that is probably because of the way that the media handles these things.

Case in point, a little while back I read a story about a kid (can't remember the name off the top of my head, unfortunately) who was a cross-dresser, and started engaging in what was blatantly sexual harassment of one of his straight classmates. School faculty didn't step in to stop it (and, in fact, one of the teachers my have been encouraging it), and the victim of the harassment finally "resolved" the issue by bringing a gun to school and killing his harasser.

The headlines, of course, shrieked "Hate Crime!" But it was really a case of the gay kid bullying an uninterested classmate, and the classmate dealing with the problem in the only way he thought he could. If the target of the bullying had been female, then the made for TV movie praising her heroic action in stopping her tormentor would have already aired.

Posted by: junior at July 28, 2015 02:46 PM (3m3mw)

294 180 I'm very open to gay rights due to my libertarian leanings. I've been in favor of gay marriage for 20 years. But I never had a problem with the Boy Scouts ban on gay troop leaders. [...]
Posted by: Headhunt23 at July 28, 2015 02:20 PM (3gdZP)

I think few here would disagree from a perspective rooted soundly in objective principle. The problem is more than the practicalities you identified though - it's that it's not about equality, it's about power beyond equality, and it's progressive-aligned.

The individual is fine, the collective political entity is a leftist bully of the worst kind. And anyone who thinks cooperation or endorsement causes friendship at the point of "equality" (whatever that is) is an imbecile. It only emboldens the political entity.

I don't see why open sexuality plays a role in BSA leadership, but if it does, okay, the lives of a small handful of genuinely good men are marginally improved by this. But in doing so they've thrown more coal into the progressive engine that will eventually eliminate the ever-hollower values the BSA alleges to espouse.

Posted by: 0302 at July 28, 2015 02:46 PM (N6eLE)

295 Wow - so the Ancient Order of Hibernians who were formed in support of Irish Catholics are now 'abhorrent' and must be forced to accept Muslims a members ? Freedom of Association now out the window ?

Posted by: McCool at July 28, 2015 02:29 PM (nCSwS)

No, Gabe specifically said that he did not agree with expanding the definition of a 'public accommodation' beyond the traditional inns, public houses, and common carriers.

Posted by: Mikey NTH - Sound Less Rage-Crazy, Get Quality Euphemisms at the Outrage Outlet! at July 28, 2015 02:47 PM (hLRSq)

296 I am assuming there have been gay Boy Scout and Girl Scout leaders throughout the history of the orgs, but back then, they kept to themselves.

===========

er no.

The classic 'raped as a boy' story nearly always involved scouting/summer camp in the past. 70s/80s a lot of those stories were around.

Posted by: Bigby's Reacharound at July 28, 2015 02:47 PM (3ZtZW)

297 Now of course I politely rebuffed her advances for a whole host of reasons, but would every guy have done the same in my shoes? I don't know.

I guess, while growing up, I believed people when they said statutory rape = prison.

Maybe I am special. Who knows?

Posted by: rickb223 at July 28, 2015 02:47 PM (jTo7g)

298 As a 10-year-old boy I was playing wedding and honeymoon with the neighbor girls. No penetration, but some pretty heavy petting.

Was I weird?

Posted by: Hank at July 28, 2015 02:48 PM (LpJen)

299 Meh anyway. Much will be settled in the Burning Time.

Posted by: Grump928(c) at July 28, 2015 02:48 PM (evdj2)

300 Once that happens, how can I support the BSA at any level? How can I spend any part of my life (for money = time = life) supporting such an organization?
Posted by: AllenG

This is exactly why we pulled out of Girl Scouts and moved to AHG. Furtherance of evil is evil.

Posted by: Jean at July 28, 2015 02:49 PM (ztOda)

301 "He said that any trait that tends to render its holders nonreproductive would never be more than about 2-3% of a population, no matter how strong the mutation. A population can't sustain much more than that."

So, would this genetic trait be considered desirable, or non-desirable for the species in question?

I can understand the concept of it's presence being limited to a low percentage, but the question is about the genetic trait being desirable, or something that perhaps a cure should be sought.

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at July 28, 2015 02:49 PM (VPLuQ)

302 When the first big case of a boy being sodomized by an openly homosexual leader hits the press (and it will), the stock response will be "He's not gay, he's just a pedophile."

Despite such weasling, the fact remains that any man who can become sexually aroused by and desire sexual interaction
with another male - regardless of that other male's age - is, by
definition, homosexual.

However, since that reasoning is pretty much ignored by the Left, an alternative response could be, "Okay, he's not "gay." He's pansexual, under which umbrella homosexuals are fully included, whereas strict heterosexuals are not."

Posted by: Doomed at July 28, 2015 02:49 PM (bGLSw)

303 252 What's the over and under on years for a big sexual abuse case by some group of Boy Scout adult supervisors?

Exactly zero. The MSM and TPTB will suppress that info and suppress it because it would not support the current meme of Homo is Best.

Posted by: havildar - major at July 28, 2015 02:49 PM (jpW6t)

304 He said that any trait that tends to render its holders nonreproductive would never be more than about 2-3% of a population

I'm not sure that holds in the 21st century, when any gay man with sufficient funds can buy an egg and rent a womb.

...and we're back to babies as commodities.

Posted by: HR braucht ein Bier at July 28, 2015 02:50 PM (/kI1Q)

305
These hot airish posts arent cutting it. Where's Ace?

Posted by: Soothsayer II at July 28, 2015 02:50 PM (h0PFb)

306 I find it interesting that you think this decision has anything to do with associating with individuals. It has to do with associating with classes.

MTF: It would be weird for any adult without children to be a Boy Scout Leader. Period.

Posted by: seattle slough at July 28, 2015 02:50 PM (mCz8+)

307 4 game suspension of Cheatriots QB Tom Brady upheld.

Posted by: logprof at July 28, 2015 02:50 PM (3nhNf)

308 Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - Not dead yet at July 28, 2015 02:25 PM (kff5f)

Ah. It must be particular to my son's pack, then. Our cub master will flat out call a parent who dumps their kid and drives off and insist they either come back and be with their son or come pick him up, regardless of rank.

Posted by: Mandy P., lurking lurker who lurks at July 28, 2015 02:50 PM (KkVB6)

309 179 @165

Nature vs Nuture is irrelevant, all that matters or should matter is what society, localities and the people themselves wish to give their imprimatur too.

Homosexuality is a deviancy and deliterious to society and here a corrupt bankrupt political urchin substituted his judgement to that of the wider organization.

If I actually believed in hell I'd hope this prick would burn in it for all eternity.

Posted by: Kreplach at July 28, 2015 02:50 PM (7mKz/)

310 >>>Most of the pedo's I have read about, or knew about more personally, were after opposite sex children. It's all over the map.

Since heterosexuals make up most of the population, of course this will be true. The fact is though, that a much higher percentage of homosexuals are pedophiles than heterosexuals, thus there would be more risk in instating a homosexual scout leader.

>>>None of the gay people I know diddle little girls and boys.

>>>Pedo's aren't going to "come out of the closet." They'll be beat to death.

Note the tension between those two statements. Maybe some that you knew have been diddling, but didn't admit it to you.

>>>I don't know how to handle the teacher/student issue. It used to be mostly college level, now it's all ages. And, again, it's the opposite sex going after much younger of the opposite sex.

Statistics? There was a case in Michigan a few years back of a male teacher who was convicted of molesting a boy, and the union wanted him to keep his pension. And a few weeks ago, a woman teacher convicted of molesting a girl. Again, numerically, there will be more heterosexual cases, since heterosexuals vastly outnumber homosexuals. But again, look at the percentages relative to each orientation, and there is much less risk.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at July 28, 2015 02:22 PM (qCMvj)

----------------------------------------------------

And also, this is kind of a false dichotomy. Eliminate risk of heterosexual molestation by banning heterosexuals of the opposite sex as scout leaders, as well as homosexuals of the same sex. Both/and, not either/or.

Posted by: Kevin Jennings at July 28, 2015 02:50 PM (E5UB0)

311 250 144 The Gramscian goal of this is, in the long run, to completely destroy the Boy Scouts as an organization.

The people who pushed for this ruling WANT molestation scandals to happen. They WANT the Scouts to be sued into oblivion by the parents of boys who get molested.

That is the entire purpose of "The Long March": to infiltrate organizations not to assume and maintain control of them but specifically to corrupt and thereby destroy them from within.
Posted by: zombie at July 28, 2015 02:14 PM (jBuUi)

As a devout Catholic, this. All of this. I cannot tell you how damn frustrating it is for every single objection to our insistence in holding to doctrine to be, "But the Prieeeeeesssstssss scandal!!!"

And now we've got the Lavendar Mafia that's infiltrated the hierarchy to the point where serious Catholics are worried they're going to try and change practice so as to make actual doctrine irrelevant.

It's a mess.

Posted by: Mandy P., lurking lurker who lurks at July 28, 2015 02:37 PM (KkVB6)

Mandy P.: you should check out the Eastern Orthodox Church. There is no "modernity" to speak of, and SJW types who would try to instill any wouldn't get too far. If the Greek, Russian, Romanian, Serbian, Syrian, etc are too "ethnic" there is the OCA - Orthodox Church in America

Posted by: the Butcher at July 28, 2015 02:52 PM (fUjxW)

312 As numerous others have pointed out, what is truly scummy about the SJBs is that they're never content to build their own, parallel organizations to those like the Boy Scouts. No, that's too much work, much easier to trash a long-lived, traditional organization instead.

Posted by: logprof at July 28, 2015 02:52 PM (3nhNf)

313 Tolerate the tolerable is my motto, which implies that there exist a class of things intolerable.

Posted by: Grump928(c) at July 28, 2015 02:43 PM (evdj2)

Now there is a well phrased sentence. I'm stealing it.

Posted by: OneEyedJack at July 28, 2015 02:53 PM (XmOA9)

314 "The spector of discrimination." So was this a "straight" story, or an op-ed column?

Posted by: logprof at July 28, 2015 02:53 PM (3nhNf)

315 If homosexual men are great leaders for Boy Scouts, then hetrosexual men are great leaders for Girl Scouts.

Posted by: changey at July 28, 2015 02:53 PM (eOdp2)

316 296
I am assuming there have been gay Boy Scout and Girl Scout leaders
throughout the history of the orgs, but back then, they kept to
themselves.

===========

er no.

The classic 'raped as a boy' story nearly always involved
scouting/summer camp in the past. 70s/80s a lot of those stories were
around.

Posted by: Bigby's Reacharound at July 28, 2015 02:47 PM (3ZtZW)

*****************
Apparently there was a scandal in England some time back and the phrase "Queer as a Scoutmaster" came into the English language. When I was an older Scout in the 1970s, we used to tease the adults sometimes with it (not around the younger boys).

Posted by: Caesar North of the Rubicon at July 28, 2015 02:54 PM (5f5bM)

317
As a 8 year old boy I did play house and had a doll house

Posted by: Colin

I know -- someone -- who just earned his Interior Decorating Merit Badge!

Posted by: Your New Scout Master

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at July 28, 2015 02:54 PM (kdS6q)

318 "The classic 'raped as a boy' story nearly always involved scouting/summer camp in the past. 70s/80s a lot of those stories were around."

I had some real sick and twisted people whom would share ideas with me.

Which is how I came to know of the existence of nifty(dot)org.

It's an erotic story repository, so don't say you weren't warned.

Some people find a great deal of sexual arousal by reading certain types of sexual fantasies.

Just sayin'

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at July 28, 2015 02:54 PM (VPLuQ)

319 If a business or organization can't associate with whomever they choose - then why can't they hire non-union workers?

Posted by: Jean at July 28, 2015 02:54 PM (ztOda)

320 As numerous others have pointed out, what is truly scummy about the SJBs is that they're never content to build their own, parallel organizations to those like the Boy Scouts.

Too bad. The outfits could have been fabulous!

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at July 28, 2015 02:55 PM (8ZskC)

321 250 144 The Gramscian goal of this is, in the long run, to completely destroy the Boy Scouts as an organization.

That is completely true. They infiltrated the National Board and actively seek to destroy Scouting under the guise of inclusiveness.

Posted by: f'd at July 28, 2015 02:56 PM (KvWlw)

322 What if Ace is off being "jennerized"?

Posted by: Bruce With a Wang! at July 28, 2015 02:39 PM (iQIUe)

Nah, he's at a spa. Do you know how long it takes to wash, groom, and clip an Ewok? If he asks for a waxing he'll be there for a month!

Posted by: Mikey NTH - Sound Less Rage-Crazy, Get Quality Euphemisms at the Outrage Outlet! at July 28, 2015 02:56 PM (hLRSq)

323
Its not just that gay pedos will have increasing access, it is the never ending promotion of gay all things. Scouting should not be about sex. Gays just can't help talking about how they are gay.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at July 28, 2015 02:56 PM (ODxAs)

324 All this "news" today has really got me down.
I'm going to go read something uplifting....a zombie apocalypse story.

Posted by: lindafell de Spair at July 28, 2015 02:57 PM (xVgrA)

325 Nood Hillary On Keystone Light

Posted by: Buzzsaw at July 28, 2015 02:57 PM (81UWZ)

326 I happened to google "boy scout lawsuits 70s" and there are quite a few active lawsuits against BSA charging them with not protecting kids against predators.

A lot of these suits seem to hinge on these supposed "secret lists". But the logic is bizarre.

If somebody's on the "secret list" then the BSA is quietly keeping them out of scoutmaster positions and being responsible.

If they aren't on the "secret list" then the BSA didn't know anything about them in the first place.

When they were released I saw some map some news org did tat was one of those "click on your hometown to see if somebody you knew was on the list" deals.

Well most of the ones I saw were just public records of people arrested, indicted or convicted -- all public information, they'd just compiled it. A difficult task pre-Internet. But what do you do if a kid accuses a scoutmaster, the scoutmaster agrees to resign but no further charges are pressed because the kid insists on it? Do you just let him move on to the next troop?

These days, I guess they'd make the kid testify.

Posted by: AmishDude at July 28, 2015 02:57 PM (JIElb)

327 No, that's too much work, much easier to trash a long-lived, traditional organization instead.
Posted by: logprof
----------------------

Those traditions and organizations are stabilizing. They are social capital. With their loss, goes the stability of polite, civil society. The left thrives in those circumstances.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at July 28, 2015 02:57 PM (9mTYi)

328 MTF: It would be weird for any adult without children to be a Boy Scout Leader. Period.

Posted by: seattle slough at July 28, 2015 02:50 PM (mCz8+)

Not really. My son's troop has several leaders who were scouts themselves and believe in the organization (and like to get outdoors and go camping too). My Scoutmaster in the 1970s was an older gentleman, a decorated WWII vet, who thought he was doing his part in serving his country by being a youth leader, and another one of the Assistant Scoutmasters had daughters and loved them, but enjoyed getting out and doing guy things with the scouts (and probably the adult leaders too, although we didn't see much of that).

Posted by: Caesar North of the Rubicon at July 28, 2015 02:57 PM (5f5bM)

329 Yes, the Gramsci plans specifically target the core institutions of the culture to undermine, destroy, or otherwise subvert them in order to remake said culture. Been working swimmingly.

Posted by: Moderate Salami, weeping for our Republic at July 28, 2015 02:58 PM (/Ho8c)

330 And the hits just keep on coming: Johnathan Pollard to be released in November

Posted by: The Great White Snark at July 28, 2015 02:59 PM (XUKZU)

331 I would not want a male Girl Scout leader for my girls. For the same reason I would not want a gay male scout leader for my boys.

Watch the scout numbers decline. Especially in the south.

Posted by: typo dynamofo at July 28, 2015 02:59 PM (i7JE3)

332 I see mostly parents signing up for this.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at July 28, 2015 02:22 PM (qCMvj)
------------------------------------------------------------------
Frank Lombard was a gay parent who molested his 5 year old son, adopted from Africa. I'm sure he'd like to sign up to be a scout leader.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2282809/posts

Posted by: Kevin Jennings at July 28, 2015 02:59 PM (E5UB0)

333 Those traditions and organizations are stabilizing.
They are social capital. With their loss, goes the stability of polite,
civil society. The left thrives in those circumstances.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at July 28, 2015 02:57 PM (9mTYi)

OMG!! I see it now. Their next move is to create a GOVERNMENT-SPONSORED youth organization with taxpayer funds. Obama Jugend?

Posted by: Caesar North of the Rubicon at July 28, 2015 02:59 PM (5f5bM)

334 Like other American institutions, the BSA had to be destroyed. It's simply ingrained into the leftist mindset: http://tiny.cc/tam50x

Posted by: Country Singer at July 28, 2015 03:00 PM (8hctH)

335 Will businesses and municipalities compensate BSA for the funding the organization will lose when churches bail out over this?

Unlikely.

Will Gabe volunteer to lead a troop?

Unlikely.

And that's why I don't give a shit about either of their opinions.

Posted by: VA GOP Sucks at July 28, 2015 03:00 PM (eytER)

336 MTF: It would be weird for any adult without children to be a Boy Scout Leader. Period.

Posted by: seattle slough

I understand where you're coming from with that sentiment, but I disagree. Perhaps childless adults might want the opportunity to share knowledge with children.

Not everyone who likes children can have their own.

Posted by: Moderate Salami, weeping for our Republic at July 28, 2015 03:00 PM (/Ho8c)

337 I am an ancient Eagle Scout from Troop 47, an ancient troop. We had a half-Indian Scoutmaster. I am a Vigil member of the OA and worked at Scout camp as a kid.

The BSA is dead to me.

Posted by: Dave at Buffalo Roam at July 28, 2015 03:01 PM (MDvKH)

338 Oh come off it Gabe. This isn't about "discrimination". As has been pointed out above, do you think it would fly to let heterosexual men lead girl scout troops?

This is about enacting measures to ensure the safety of the children involved. To think that the wounded pride of a bunch of activists should be allowed to trump the safety of these kids is abhorrent.

Posted by: Kevin Jennings at July 28, 2015 02:42 PM (E5UB0)

Let's fix the language. It is discrimination, and it's good discrimination using evidence and common sense.

We have a legal system that is designed to discriminate between the innocent and the guilty. Having a problem with "discrimination" is having a problem with justice.

That is why our society has become so unjust - "we" have abandoned good judgement.

Posted by: ConservativeMonster at July 28, 2015 03:01 PM (0NdlF)

339 Obama Jugend?

Posted by: Caesar North of the Rubicon

How else can you train up a security force just as well trained and funded as the military?

Posted by: Moderate Salami, weeping for our Republic at July 28, 2015 03:01 PM (/Ho8c)

340
Just spent a week camping with my son's Boy Scouts troop and the issue never came up.

Pretty sure my daughter's Girl Scouts troop will not let me camp with them.

Posted by: CJ at July 28, 2015 03:02 PM (9KqcB)

341 There's American Heritage Girls for parents who want options for their girls other than GSA. I expect something similar to spring up for the boys.

Posted by: Kevin Jennings at July 28, 2015 03:02 PM (E5UB0)

342 How about trannies? Can they be Scout leaders? How about undetermined? Let's not discriminate against those still making up their tiny minds.

Posted by: TheQuietMan at July 28, 2015 03:02 PM (493sH)

343 301
"He said that any trait that tends to render its holders nonreproductive
would never be more than about 2-3% of a population, no matter how
strong the mutation. A population can't sustain much more than that."

So, would this genetic trait be considered desirable, or non-desirable for the species in question?

I can understand the concept of it's presence being limited to a low
percentage, but the question is about the genetic trait being
desirable, or something that perhaps a cure should be sought.

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at July 28, 2015 02:49 PM (VPLuQ)

Interesting question. Does the mutation somehow benefit the population? Did cavemen have a need for interior design, so the women would call Ogg to come help them with arranging cave paintings and bearskins?

Posted by: Caesar North of the Rubicon at July 28, 2015 03:03 PM (5f5bM)

344 NAMBLA rejoices

Posted by: @PeeteySDee at July 28, 2015 01:51 PM (qYhqx)

They're probably lined up around the block waiting to apply.

Posted by: TheQuietMan at July 28, 2015 03:04 PM (493sH)

345 I've always wanted to be a Girl Scout Leader.

Posted by: Kaitlyn Janner at July 28, 2015 03:04 PM (hHs1b)

346 I hate to bring this up but does anyone not see the agenda behind this boy scout thing? I mean, what could possibly be the reason gay men want to be closely involved with young boys? I suppose it is an inponderable conumdrum to the daft. As is the possible 'motive' for mohamadan murderers a-murderin'. It's plain as day to me.

Posted by: Eromero at July 28, 2015 03:04 PM (go5uR)

347 That is why our society has become so unjust - "we" have abandoned good judgement.
Posted by: ConservativeMonster at July 28, 2015 03:01 PM (0NdlF)
-------------------------------------------------------------
yeah, that's what I meant. What I should have said is, it's not an arbitrary "gays are icky" discrimination.

Posted by: Kevin Jennings at July 28, 2015 03:04 PM (E5UB0)

348 How else can you train up a security force just as well trained and funded as the military?

Posted by: Moderate Salami, weeping for our Republic at July 28, 2015 03:01 PM (/Ho8c)

Somebody has to man the Panzerfausts when the Russians roll into town.

Posted by: Caesar North of the Rubicon at July 28, 2015 03:05 PM (5f5bM)

349 OMG!! I see it now. Their next move is to create a GOVERNMENT-SPONSORED youth organization with taxpayer funds. Obama Jugend?

Posted by: Caesar North of the Rubicon at July 28, 2015 02:59 PM (5f5bM)

A Barry youth group would be more like the SA. Very rainbowy

Posted by: TheQuietMan at July 28, 2015 03:06 PM (493sH)

350 "what could possibly be the reason gay men want to be closely involved with young boys?"

Because that's where the potential future homosexual recruits are, and it's much easier and cheaper than getting teacher licensure.

Posted by: Doomed at July 28, 2015 03:06 PM (bGLSw)

351 I also think that heterosexual men should be allowed to spend the weekend in the woods alone with Girl Scouts.

Posted by: Tom The Rapist at July 28, 2015 03:07 PM (7u7u7)

352 I am an ancient Eagle Scout from Troop 47, an
ancient troop. We had a half-Indian Scoutmaster. I am a Vigil member
of the OA and worked at Scout camp as a kid.

The BSA is dead to me.

Posted by: Dave at Buffalo Roam at July 28, 2015 03:01 PM (MDvKH)

Eagle from Troop 68, Brotherhood OA, Camp Mack Morris staff for three years. It's dead to me, too.

I expect something similar to spring up for the boys.

Posted by: Kevin Jennings at July 28, 2015 03:02 PM (E5UB0)
Look up TrailLife USA.

Posted by: Country Singer at July 28, 2015 03:07 PM (8hctH)

353 346
I hate to bring this up but does anyone not see the agenda behind this
boy scout thing? I mean, what could possibly be the reason gay men want
to be closely involved with young boys? I suppose it is an inponderable
conumdrum to the daft. As is the possible 'motive' for mohamadan
murderers a-murderin'. It's plain as day to me.

Posted by: Eromero at July 28, 2015 03:04 PM (go5uR)

*******************
I eagerly await the day when they hold the gay pride demonstration outside the mosque on Friday, in solidarity with the gay Muslims who are in the closet. Or when the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence hold the "Hunky Mohammed" contest. The war of the fellow travelers will be interesting to watch while everything else is burning. My money is on the suicide bombers.

Posted by: Caesar North of the Rubicon at July 28, 2015 03:08 PM (5f5bM)

354 I assume gays have been scout masters, discreetly for sure, in the past. I assume gay boys have joined scouts because of the attraction. This stuff happens. I was a scout and we did some pretty unacceptable stuff in the day. Including having our male assistant scout leader do some streaking thru campsites in the wee hours of the morning. Edgy to us 12 year olds. Given the ubiquity of HD cameras, I don't know why any adult would take the risk of being a scout master, gay or not.

Posted by: changey at July 28, 2015 03:08 PM (eOdp2)

355 This is the origin of the Catholic Church sex scandal. The Church decided that non-practicing gay men could be admitted to the priesthood. Those men then spent a great deal of time around alter boys. Many of the molested were teens. That is not pedophilia. It is a gay sex scandal.

Posted by: typo dynamofo at July 28, 2015 03:09 PM (i7JE3)

356 The BSA has adopted a new anthem.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDcvmrHV9Jc

Posted by: Doomed at July 28, 2015 03:09 PM (bGLSw)

357 Why do gays always have to infiltrate an existing organization and foist their idiosyncrasies upon others?

Can't they start their own organizations, like say, the Gay Scouts, and take it from there?

Posted by: Fritz at July 28, 2015 03:09 PM (o/UmK)

358 Posted by: Kevin Jennings at July 28, 2015 03:02 PM (E5UB0)

Just a suggestion. If you're opposed to gay Scout Masters you probably change your handle to something else as Kevin Jennings-Obama's radical safe school czar-wouldn't be.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at July 28, 2015 03:11 PM (OSs/l)

359 A Barry youth group would be more like the SA. Very rainbowy

Posted by: TheQuietMan at July 28, 2015 03:06 PM (493sH)

Another Night of the Long Knives in our future? I recently re-read Len Deighton's "Winter," which is set in those times. A lot of details I had forgotten or never knew about the intricacies of Germany between the wars. It was not inevitable that what happened would happen, but many good people would not stand up to what was going on around them, instead trying to do their best to get along, make a buck, and take care of their families. We cannot commit the same mistake.

Posted by: Caesar North of the Rubicon at July 28, 2015 03:12 PM (5f5bM)

360 For what its worth (and given that its him,
probably not much) Gore Vidal postulated in his autobiography that all
young people are to some extant capable of hetero or homo sexual
attraction, based upon his own experiences, but that a decision tended
to be made at some point in adolescence.

Posted by: MTF at July 28, 2015 02:41 PM (TxJGV)
Great argument for keeping fruits away from adolescent boys.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at July 28, 2015 03:12 PM (oKE6c)

361 Why do gays always have to infiltrate an existing organization and foist their idiosyncrasies upon others?

Can't they start their own organizations, like say, the Gay Scouts, and take it from there?
Posted by: Fritz at July 28, 2015 03:09 PM (o/UmK)
-----------------------------------------------------
There's a conservative thinker Sarah Hey at epsicopal site standfirminfaith.com who has addressed this issue with regards to liberal infiltration of the Episcopal Church over the past several decades. Basically the reason is that liberals are parasites. They cannot produce anything of value themselves, so they are continually on the lookout for organizations they can co-opt.

Posted by: John Shelby Spong at July 28, 2015 03:13 PM (E5UB0)

362 Eromero: Why would a gay man want to be a boy scout leader? I don't know. Why would a straight man want to be a boy scout leader?

In both cases I would assume it was because their own son was a boy scout or they had a positive experience scouting or a preferably a combination of the two. And I'm sure that's true for gay and straight adults alike.

I'm not a scout leader because I wasn't a scout and my kids aren't scouts. I did reluctantly become a soccer coach because my kids needed coaches. Turns out I loved doing it. Now that both my kids have graduated to select teams, I'm out. That's typically how these things happen. Isn't it?

Posted by: seattle slough at July 28, 2015 03:14 PM (mCz8+)

363 You wanna know why folks don't want homo scout masters? Look up the meaning of "chicken hawk," if you dare.

Posted by: logprof at July 28, 2015 03:14 PM (3nhNf)

364
Posted by: John Shelby Spong
---------------------------------

ISWYDT

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at July 28, 2015 03:15 PM (9mTYi)

365 Can't they start their own organizations, like say, the Gay Scouts, and take it from there?

Posted by: Fritz

Granted, for some, the issue is "equality for gays." However, the overarching reason, and the reason why your suggestion doesn't solve their problem, is they want to destroy the Scouts. Creating something positive for gay boys isn't the goal; they want the heteronormative and largely Christian Boy Scouts destroyed, because it is an institution of cultural stability that promotes values (many of us would call them 'American" values) that the Progressives hate; among them honor and duty to God and Country.

Posted by: Moderate Salami, weeping for our Republic at July 28, 2015 03:15 PM (/Ho8c)

366 Pedophiles (and by pedophiles I mean actual honest to goodness pedophiles) typically don't discriminate between boys and girls. Pre pubescent boys and girls are neither men nor women and most real pedos take what they can get.

Historically you see more same sex pedophilia for the simple fact that it's easier to get access to same sex kids. Coaches, scout leaders, camp counselors, etc, are almost always of the same sex as the kids they have access to.

Posted by: seattle slough at July 28, 2015 03:17 PM (mCz8+)

367 "Discrimination on the basis of race, religion, national origin, sex, and sexual orientation is abhorrent."

Why?

Posted by: Kate58 at July 28, 2015 03:18 PM (oLZsm)

368 "Next up will be the requirement that the scout leader be gay, or transexual.

Because diversity!"

Not funny. We already have quotas although they are not called that based on race and sex, in most large organizations, They are sometimes done gladly where liberals are in charge or under threat of law fare. We will soon start to see these quotas extended to gays. And BSA will be at the the top of the the SJW target list.

Because vengeance!

Posted by: George Orwell de Leon at July 28, 2015 03:18 PM (1BQGO)

369 Just a suggestion. If you're opposed to gay Scout Masters you probably change your handle to something else as Kevin Jennings-Obama's radical safe school czar-wouldn't be.
Posted by: FenelonSpoke at July 28, 2015 03:11 PM (OSs/l)
----------------------------------------
yeah. Just being ironic. His appointment was one of those "HOW CAN THIS BE HAPPENING???" moments. He failed to report a 14 year old who told him that an adult man had molested him. He also liked showing pornographic videos to high school students. It was a signal that we had truly hit rock bottom and perhaps we were beyond hope at this point. How could it be that this person was not put behind bars? Some conservative, some journalist must have known about this. Why no outcry?

Posted by: Kevin Jennings at July 28, 2015 03:18 PM (E5UB0)

370 Posted by: Moderate Salami, weeping for our Republic at July 28, 2015 03:15 PM (/Ho8c)

It's been a long march through the Scouting institution, too. Just look at how the National Jamboree themes have changed over the years: http://tiny.cc/c2m50x

Posted by: Country Singer at July 28, 2015 03:19 PM (8hctH)

371 With no intention of giving them the slightest credit for anything, I used to believe the Left sought to infiltrate institutions in order to corrupt and destroy them, thus necessitating replacing dead institutions with government or something government-oriented (all about power over others). And they still do this.

Now it seems that they've attained power, many Leftists are into destroying various institutions just because they can, with no real thought to replacing them. That still has power over others as the motivator; it just lacks the same justification.

Posted by: Doomed at July 28, 2015 03:20 PM (bGLSw)

372 BSA membership might also decline simply because boys could become ashamed to be associated with it. Nobody would want to be called a Gay Scout. Kids are cruel, it would certainly happen.

Posted by: I Know Nuthink at July 28, 2015 03:21 PM (eEW5/)

373 Discrimination doesn't have to be "abhorrent." The military's old ban on women troops wasn't, for instance. The insistence of the modern conservative movement/GOP on being just as anti-discrimination as the Dems is lame.

Posted by: W at July 28, 2015 03:22 PM (0AOFS)

374 yeah. Just being ironic.

Yes, Kevin Jennings nomination just horrible. Just another high benchmark for Obama appointees who are either all , corrupt, soulless, and/ or incompetent. I winder where's he messing up things now?

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at July 28, 2015 03:22 PM (OSs/l)

375 I have two young uns in Cub Scouts and I may have to quit over this. Pains me to do it because they enjoy it so. However, it has already been watered down with nannyism and early-stage political correctness so this doesn't surprise me in the least.

F**ing liberals. They ruin every damned thing. This isn't just business and stealing my money anymore. This is becoming personal..

Posted by: George Orwell de Leon at July 28, 2015 03:25 PM (1BQGO)

376 Now it seems that they've attained power, many
Leftists are into destroying various institutions just because they can,
with no real thought to replacing them. That still has power over
others as the motivator; it just lacks the same justification.

Posted by: Doomed at July 28, 2015 03:20 PM (bGLSw)

Not replacing them? The Young Pioneers can't be far off. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pioneer_movement
(I just noticed that the Young Pioneers of America - a Communist alternative to the Scouts - already exists, so my snark was particularly apposite.)

Posted by: Jay Guevara at July 28, 2015 03:27 PM (oKE6c)

377 BSA membership might also decline simply because boys could become ashamed to be associated with it.

This is an aspect I suspect that homosexuals do not get. No matter how much they campaign, a lot of people will probably always find homosexuality and especially homosexual practices repellent.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at July 28, 2015 03:28 PM (oKE6c)

378 We can reasonably expect a 1,000% increase in the number of Scouts molested, with a corresponding increase in lawsuits against the BSA for failing to protect these young men.

Heil Homos!

Posted by: Sam Adams at July 28, 2015 03:29 PM (R8h28)

379 Granted, for some, the issue is "equality for gays."
However, the overarching reason, and the reason why your suggestion
doesn't solve their problem, is they want to destroy the Scouts.
Creating something positive for gay boys isn't the goal; they want the
heteronormative and largely Christian Boy Scouts destroyed, because it
is an institution of cultural stability that promotes values (many of us
would call them 'American" values) that the Progressives hate; among
them honor and duty to God and Country.

Posted by: Moderate Salami, weeping for our Republic at July 28, 2015 03:15 PM (/Ho8c)
This.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at July 28, 2015 03:30 PM (oKE6c)

380 "Discrimination on the basis of race, religion, national origin, sex, and sexual orientation is abhorrent."

Why?"

Fair question. Legally, I'm with Goldwater in permitting private sector discrimination. Only the government, which is charged with protecting all citizens equally under the law, should be barred by law from discrimination. Otherwise, this is a question for individual conscience, not a legal matter.

Conscience-wise, there's a huge grey area between "abhorrent" ("the worst") and "undesirable" or just "bad manners." We've been raised in a culture that knee-jerks discrimination to eleventy-bad and that's simply not realistic. People who are bigoted cause socially awkward situations, but absent violence or threat of violence, they're not criminals or otherwise "abhorrent." We have laws against threats and violence already - we don't need to create another category of BadThink or ThoughtCrime for "protected-class" discrimination, morally, much less legally.

I think that people who elevate nature over nurture, beyond the broadest-based statistical analysis (e.g. minor IQ deviations and personality trait variances over entire populations) are wrong in a scientific sense, but saying they're "abhorrent" is like calling for "climate deniers" to be jailed.

It's a hard/biological and social science question first, a moral one second, and I agree with you that we should ask ourselves why we're so quick to label this entire constellation of issues as not only "settled science" but ThoughtCrime as well.

Posted by: SocietyIs2Blame at July 28, 2015 03:32 PM (7OMbF)

381 "Discrimination on the basis of race, religion, national origin, sex, and sexual orientation is abhorrent." I really cannot see why. I know that we are supposed to say that to be politically correct and avoid social ostracism, but I don't believe it to be true. Either we have freedom of association or we don't. Since 1964, we apparently don't.

Posted by: gp at July 28, 2015 03:32 PM (mk9aG)

382 "Discrimination on the basis of race, religion, national origin, sex, and sexual orientation is abhorrent."

So Rachel Dolezal can rejoin the NAACP?

Posted by: TheQuietMan at July 28, 2015 03:37 PM (493sH)

383 "Discrimination on the basis of race, religion, national origin, sex,
and sexual orientation is abhorrent." I really cannot see why. I know
that we are supposed to say that to be politically correct and avoid
social ostracism, but I don't believe it to be true. Either we have
freedom of association or we don't. Since 1964, we apparently don't.

We as whites are supposed to say that. Blacks routinely discriminate against whites; colleges have all black dorms, black student unions, etc. Mexicans happily assert the primacy of "La Raza" in language that would make Adolf blush.

The same thing is true of men. Womens' center? Where's the Mens' Center? Etc.

And if you're white AND male, crapping on you is not only acceptable, but encouraged.

And discrimination against Asians is fine too, especially in university admissions.

So discrimination is A-OK, as long as you pick your target appropriately, viz., choose someone whose demographic is responsible for 90% of human progress.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at July 28, 2015 03:38 PM (oKE6c)

384 " I really cannot see why. I know that we are supposed to say that to be
politically correct and avoid social ostracism, but I don't believe it
to be true. Either we have freedom of association or we don't. Since
1964, we apparently don't."

That's why Goldwater was denounced as a "racist" despite having been a ground-floor NAACP supporter in AZ - and it's a big bogey in terms of Dems calling Republicans racist to this day. He voted for every prior Civil Rights Act which restricted government discrimination. 1964's jumped the shark into the private sector and he called BS.

He was right - discrimination laws against private citizens have exacerbated, not improved, race relations, creating identity group warfare and the absurd concept of "white privilege," playing directly into cultural Marxist hands for decades. Nixon, heralding the "please stop hating me" approach of modern Republicans, bought in whole hog - albeit in the mistaken belief that affirmative action would be temporary.

Nothing about crit-theory race/class/gender politics is temporary. The grievance lobbies can't be satisfied. It's about revenge first, then taking over the superior "privileged" position until forcibly dislodged.

I'd say "meet the new boss, same as the old boss" but in truth the WASPs are the only group that were well-intentioned and frankly dumb enough to buy into this.

Once you hand the Left a club, they will never stop beating you with it.

Posted by: SocietyIs2Blame at July 28, 2015 03:41 PM (wCFAe)

385 By the way, there's a new merit badge.

Posted by: cortezoid at July 28, 2015 03:43 PM (e3KKU)

386
Cub Scouts are set for boys from first to sixth grade (~6 yo to ~12 yo).
At the lower end first through third grade, we want the parents to camp with the scouts. Those activities are called ... family camping.

Boy Scouts, mainstream, are from ~11 or so to 18 yo. They are not currently coed, but may have female leaders. it's a volunteer organization, and you fill the need with who will volunteer, generally. Local Charter Organizations vet the leadership, usually very carefully.
Older scout programs include Explorers, Venturing, and Sea Scouts. They usually run up to 21 yo, and are commonly coed.

The problem with the same-sex attraction, as some note, is that there is more at play than pedophilia. The older scouts are 16, 17, and 18 years old, Go by a local high school sometime and take a look. Kids that age are physically fairly mature and can be very attractive.

There are all kinds of problems with this decision, and the end result will be a massive contraction of scouts as parents pull their children and adult leaders decide not to continue to be associated.

As a current scout leader, I'm ready to throw in the towel on this organization, I just don't want to abandon the scouts we currently have that never asked for this crap. What I want is an organizational referendum on retaining Gates as BSA management.

Posted by: Advo at July 28, 2015 03:43 PM (7vbG1)

387 "So discrimination is A-OK, as long as you pick your target
appropriately, viz., choose someone whose demographic is responsible for
90% of human progress."

The socially just aspect of affirmative action (if there ever was one - I think it's a round peg approach to a square hole problem) long ago exceeded its risk-reward threshold. Now it's a one-way ratchet for crit-theory toxins to be pumped into the American culture. The USSR and its cronies are killing us from beyond the grave with this stuff.

There is no "punch up or punch down" - more simply it's turned into "punch or be punched" and we need to learn how to start punching again. First by dispensing with unearned guilt and being able to proudly say, as an objectively verifiable proposition, that Anglo culture has in fact been responsible for the vast majority of human progress.

We didn't "steal" our prosperity and success. We created it. If you want to take that away, you're going to have to fight us for it. If other cultures want peaceful coexistence, stop making demands on us as looters and start acting as fair traders, value for value.

Posted by: SocietyIs2Blame at July 28, 2015 03:47 PM (eGrbC)

388 my brother was in a state boy's choir when he was 8-10 years old. He toured the US and Europe singing. The director of the choir was a pedophile, and raped many of the boys. He tried to rape my brother, who apparently hit him and locked himself in a bathroom and wouldn't come out. He then quit the choir, despite much success and some recording opportunities, but didn't tell my parents why. To their everlasting credit, they let him quit. Years later, he told them what happened. Apparently the choir director was known to many in the community for his proclivities, and nothing was ever done, because he was successful with the choir.

But how many lives were screwed up or destroyed because of that son of a bitch?

So yeah, a lot of good is sure to come of this move, BSA.

Posted by: Moki at July 28, 2015 03:48 PM (x303I)

389 " the end result will be a massive contraction of scouts as parents pull
their children and adult leaders decide not to continue to be
associated."

Inevitable. As with everything else the crit theory Left infects, they kill the host in the name of saving it.

Posted by: SocietyIs2Blame at July 28, 2015 03:49 PM (eGrbC)

390 Hey, this is great. I used to have to go to the Daily Kos or Huffington Post to have my beliefs questioned and be insulted. Now, AOSHQ is truly a one stop shop for political commentary. I can read some good conservative red meat and be called a racist homophobe...all without leaving the comfort of the same browser window!

I commend Ace's new web strategy. Sure, 99% of Ace's readers come here to have their beliefs confirmed and celebrated, but shifting to more of a contest and insult model will surely bring in those clicks and keep Ace in cheap whiskey, not that there's anything wrong with that.

And Gabe, you are indeed whiley! You not only establish your leftist bona fides, but your clever angling will definitely get you that gig with Shep Smith when he leaves Fox, comes out, and goes on the bash conservatives circuit. David Brock is smiling with admiration. Well played.

Posted by: MC Slammer at July 28, 2015 03:49 PM (eKIg1)

391 "And Gabe, you are indeed whiley!"

I'm no Gabe fan to say the least, but there's little to flame him on with this piece but for the "abhorrent" reference. He's acknowledged that this was a bad outcome socially and legally and deferred to private sector right to discrimination. If I saw him acknowledge that this kind of action is the inevitable outcome of his push for "gay rights" given our present identity politics, that would be plus, but that's his Rubicon (or at least one of them).

Posted by: SocietyIs2Blame at July 28, 2015 03:56 PM (k7Zse)

392 Having some foresight about the BSA decision, I wonder about two things:

1 How will this affect our military? (Because there is some tradition there between the military and the Boy Scouts)

and

2 What will the value of being an Eagle Scout be on a resume or college application? And what happens if you choose to join an alternative scouting group. . . will you be ostracized/handicapped for not sticking with the liberal organization?

Posted by: anon at July 28, 2015 03:59 PM (26e2V)

393 SocietyIs2Blame, yeah, this post was not completely over the top, but given Gabe's history over the last year or so...

But then I've been slightly detecting Charles Johnson stench....so maybe I'm crazy.

Posted by: MC Slammer at July 28, 2015 04:02 PM (eKIg1)

394 I am still waiting to hear the outrage from "black Christians" over gay marriage.

Posted by: Spudskie at July 28, 2015 04:02 PM (WxxY3)

395 I started late in Scouts and only got to Star but had the badges to make Eagle just not the time in.

Our local BSA was sued by the DWLs here because they fired a homo scout leader. The DWLs won the case and the homo scout leader got his position back. Less than a year later he NAMBLAed a young boy and the same DWLs sued the BSA chapter for allowing the homo leader to be in contact with the boys.

I. Shit. You. Not.

Posted by: Jukin, Former Republican at July 28, 2015 04:05 PM (f+6Pd)

396 Jukin,
What is a DWLs?
Your story reminds me a a girl who sued to be allowed wrestle on her boys high school team in Illinois. When she was severely injured her parents then sued because she had been injured.

Posted by: typo dynamofo at July 28, 2015 04:09 PM (i7JE3)

397 Posted by: SocietyIs2Blame at July 28, 2015 03:32 PM (7OMbF)

Excellent points.

Posted by: rebel flounder at July 28, 2015 04:15 PM (Vf5rR)

398
To keep myself physically strong, mentally awake and morally straight
Posted by: Nip Sip at July 28, 2015 01:56 PM (

Bell curve

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at July 28, 2015 04:18 PM (QyBQv)

399 Yea, I'm sure parents will eagerly be letting gay men take their kids into the woods.

Just like I'd let a straight man take my young daughters camping, even though heterosexuality and pedophilia don't correlate, it's just common sense.

Fortunately, this stuff will be handled locally and with involved parents. If some weirdo gay guy decides he wants to get really involved in taking young boys on excursions, parents will know what to do.

Posted by: McAdams at July 28, 2015 04:25 PM (994nC)

400 Abhorrent?

Hardly. We can have freedom. Or we can have equality. But it's pretty hard to have both, particularly when you're telling privately owned businesses, clubs, etc. whom to include.

Discriminating used to be a positive word, as in standards. And, as others pointed it out, there's lots of good reasons to have religious, single sex, and other forms of exclusive clubs.

We need to stop letting the liberals set the standards of right and wrong. We can't win at that game.

Posted by: Roman Dmowski at July 28, 2015 04:40 PM (3/wVX)

401 "Discrimination on the basis of race, religion, national origin, sex, and sexual orientation is abhorrent.

Really? Ok. If you say so.

I want to be a Girl Scout leader; and take teenage girls on week long campouts in the woods every month without any other adults around.

Why yes I AM a mid-40's straight single guy.

But discriminating based on my sex or sexual orientation is BAD so if you let a WOMAN be a girl scout leader; you have to let me have teenagers to take to my dung.. I mean camping trip. Just a weird typo to start "camping trip" is all there.

NOT letting me have teenage girls under my leadership and control is "abhorrent" isn't it? Of course it is. Because that would be discrimination based on sex and orientation; you let straight WOMEN do this; but not me? ABHORRENT!

This is weird though.
It wasn't that long ago LETTING me have a harem (sorry "troop") of teenage girls for my own satisfaction was abhorrent.

When did it change so that NOT letting me have them was worse?

Posted by: gekkobear at July 28, 2015 04:49 PM (kq7Of)

402 Dude. How did Gabe know my boys are in troop #734. Friggin' stalker.

Posted by: gm at July 28, 2015 04:53 PM (uHnPm)

403
When did it change so that NOT letting me have them was worse?
Posted by: gekkobear at July 28, 2015 04:49 PM (kq7Of)

When the progtards decided to say evil is good, and good is evil. So they can totes do what they want, but not you silly Christianist, white gun toting racists. Because that's fair.

Seriously, I think that the fringe groups who were long considered abnormal are having a hey day now, and are behaving the way they presumed the rest of us behaved towards them. And in some cases, it was true that they were shunned or ridiculed for their outrageous/different/freaking weird lifestyle. So they think that because the pendulum has swung back to their side, they are going to unleash all that pent up desire for revenge on the people who made them feel outrageous/different/freaking weird. Under the guise of "tolerance." But they have no real understanding of the word and its meaning, nor do they want to. They want to be freaks, and be accepted for it, and behave however they want and mommy and dadd...um society, can't say a damn thing about it. Even if what they do hurts someone else. Because it is all about them, and how THEY feel. Selfishness is now a religion.

Posted by: Moki at July 28, 2015 04:56 PM (x303I)

404 I want to be a girl scout leader.

Posted by: 53 yr old single man at July 28, 2015 05:02 PM (XhzTz)

405 Probably commenting on the late side but this has been a huge blow to our family. My husband (we're Mormon) has had a scout job for 8 of the last 10 years--mind you, in our faith, we don't get to pick our jobs and it was a super rough 'calling' for him to accept--gone (often without any of our own children) one weekend a month to camp in all sorts of conditions, running activities one night a week (again, not for his own children, by and large), organizing camps and high adventures (again, without his own children) that have complicated logistics and take precious vacation days... Initially he didn't much like camping or scouts or any of it. And we were kind of fighting about this last night and I said, "You hate scouts! Why do you even care if we stay?" (I've been a Cub scout leader for 3 or four years and loved it--hated the hoops and the narrow achievement parameters and the way they train you like everyone is a potential child rapist but liked the bulk of it.) Anyway, he said, "I used to hate it. I worked very hard to change and I have." He is just sick about this. Sick. The number of hours he's devoted to teaching young boys to grow up to be honest, thrifty, brave, etc., etc. men--his favorite merit badge to mentor is the Personal Finance one!

A crapton of time is spent in scouts to make sure everyone is safe and the boys are not put in compromising sexual situations. I would never allow a group of boys to be chaperoned on overnight camping trips by two, squeaky-clean middle-aged women. The sexual attraction dynamic is similar in the case of gay men. As far as the bureaucracy goes, I don't care if gay men or lesbians are on the council--but propriety would suggest that their presence on campouts is problematic.

I don't know what our chartering organization will decide in the case of BSA but I'm not married to it. I am married to the idea that I have to nurture an environment of growth around my son however that happens. And if the BSA (Gates makes my blood actually boil.) thinks that this concession is the last, he's a fool. There are always other more progressive mountains awaiting.

Our oldest (15) just got his Eagle award and we still have yet to do his Court of Honor. I don't know what the other boys will do. Our family tradition is scouting and we love it. I can't wait to see what the Cis-Normative Privilege Badge looks like.

Posted by: Beanerschnitzel at July 28, 2015 05:03 PM (8d63Z)

406 Beanerschnitzel- bless your heart. Thank you to you and your husband for putting in the time to mentor the scouts you have encountered. Thank you for trying to teach them something good and useful and worthwhile. It still matters, although not in the current BSA venue. Prayers for y'all for whatever you decide to do.

Posted by: Moki at July 28, 2015 05:08 PM (x303I)

407 I was a Boy Scout. My son will not be.

Posted by: Birdeye at July 28, 2015 05:12 PM (ioXhR)

408 Look how Gayb contradicts himself in the final paragraph:

"abandons the notion that people have a right to associate with only those who they care to and also to not associate with those those they don't. Discrimination on the basis of race, religion, national origin, sex, and sexual orientation is abhorrent."

Using this logic, straight men should be thus allowed to take Girl Scouts camping. If not, then that's discrimination against heterosexuals. "Abhorrent."

Posted by: Birdeye at July 28, 2015 05:17 PM (ioXhR)

409 Kiss the Boy Scouts goodbye. Sorry, but being a sodomite does not constitute "morally straight." Also, what about all of the gay Scout leaders who will most certainly be busted for giving "guidance" to the boys under their charge? When I was in NOLA once, there was a gay festival on Rue Bourbon. Wanna know the favorite costume beside sailor and fairy? Boy Scout. It's a sick fantasy of theirs to bring new adherents into their cult of depravity and now they'll get to live it.

As a former Life Scout, I'm sickened. I'm outraged. I'm depressed. It was such a great organization and such a positive experience for me that helped me greatly in my life and in my career. Now, boys won't get the chance to learn how to build a fire, tie knots, do service projects, learn leadership, life skills and get along with other folks of different religions and ethnic groups. Our troop had Catholics, Baptists, Jews and believe or not, a couple of Muslim kids. We might've been different, but we were one troop.

Oh, BTW, our patrol name that I invented was the best. The GENERIC patrol. We stenciled everything GENERIC, ate only generic store brand food on camp outs and had a plain white flag and a plain white patch on our uniforms. It was classic.

I guess David Letterman's writers were psychic. From a Top 10 list called Least Popular Merit Badges
10. Spit craft (yep)
9. Sitting in fire
8. Judy Garland lore (you betcha)
7. Police informant
6. Shallow-grave maintenance
5. Afternoon with Linda Lavin
4. Trouser tenting (yep again)
3. Animal waste identification
2. Heimliching squirrels
1. Toe dancing

When does this ever end? The world wonders.

Posted by: Grizzled Southerner at July 28, 2015 05:20 PM (5bWE2)

410 "Regular listeners to the podcast know that I go off on public accommodation laws from time to time."

Right, you object to them right up to the point where they don't accommodate you.

Posted by: Vermin McCann at July 28, 2015 05:38 PM (G5/Wj)

411 I don't think Gabe was agreeing with the BSA's decision here.

Posted by: Mikey NTH - Sound Less Rage-Crazy, Get Quality Euphemisms at the Outrage Outlet! at July 28, 2015 01:45 PM (hLRSq)

Dollars to donuts he does.

Posted by: redbanzai at July 28, 2015 05:41 PM (OrI3J)

412 49
And so it goes. The destruction of another American tradition.

Posted by: Soona at July 28, 2015 01:55 PM (P25Hh)

This and the Girl Scouts announcing they would welcome "transsexual girls" (read little boys whose parents are screwing with their heads) means the only children's groups safe from PC compliance with perversion are church based. I bet Baptist RA and GA groups see surging enrollment.

Posted by: redbanzai at July 28, 2015 05:50 PM (OrI3J)

413 Canada's membership in the Boy Scouts plummeted, and is still falling, after gays were allowed in the (pup) tent.

As an Eagle Scout, with Bronze Palm, the Ad Altare Dei Award, Order of the Arrow (attaining Brotherhood honor) and a World Jamboree attendee in 1971 in Japan, I abhor this decision. It is the end of Boy Scouting in America. This is, of course, by design. Fundamental transformation and all that shit.

Posted by: RickZ at July 28, 2015 05:55 PM (HEtQ3)

414 Posted by: Grizzled Southerner at July 28, 2015 05:20 PM (5bWE2)

I was Patrol Leader of the Roadrunner Patrol. We bought blank patrol patches and sewed our own {BEEP! BEEP!} with a dust cloud on it. Our patrol flag, with cartoon Mr. Roadrunner himself, always got comments whenever we were in a Jamboree setting with other troops.

Posted by: RickZ at July 28, 2015 05:59 PM (HEtQ3)

415 Basically, the entire focus of our culture must now be on sodomy. Everything. All the time. Everywhere. Especially kids.

Posted by: Ben H at July 28, 2015 06:01 PM (gJEsZ)

416 This is the culmination of decades of effort by the gay groups. Its the priority they have always returned to, again and again. Its clearly an obsession, an unhealthy one, and I doubt I'm the only one who finds it grotesque.

Posted by: Ben H at July 28, 2015 06:03 PM (gJEsZ)

417 I always thought all of the boy scouts in my hometown were fags. That's why I never joined.

Posted by: teapartydoc at July 28, 2015 07:01 PM (hWHqx)

418 Inevitable in a place like sodom and gomorrah. I won't be buying any more carmel corn. Already gave up the thin mints. Maybe I will lose weight!

Posted by: Bonnie Blue at July 28, 2015 07:16 PM (ZXK8H)

419 gabe is lying again. He cheered on the fake survey in the military prior to gays being cleared.
He realizes like everyone else that this is a fait accompli.

And now
we should believe that he's suddenly truthful? Not likely.

Posted by: Blue Hen at July 28, 2015 07:40 PM (VFjhH)

420 93
Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at July 28, 2015 02:00 PM (VPLuQ)

I'm the committee chair, and my chartered org has said that they will allow homosexual leadership.

So now I get to explain to my son that he may not get to be a scout
for much longer. The *one* extra-curricular activity he's ever been in
that he loved, and I'm probably going to have to take him out of it.

Thanks, BSA. Thanks a lot.

(My personal position is this - as long as it's not an issue, it's
not an issue. National Council can take a flying leap for all I care.
The moment it's an issue, we're out.)

Ahhhh.... but unfortunately, as a parent you're unlikely to know that it's an issue until looong after it has become an issue. Many victims of childhood sexual molestation are ashamed and embarrassed and therefore delay their reporting of these crimes for many years. And this ignores the more vicious predators who threaten the kids (and their families) if they do not remain quiet.

My Dad was a Adult Scout-Leader. I was a Scout. My son made Eagle Scout. And I am currently an Adult Leader of a BSA Venture Crew (where "Safe-Scouting" is especially emphasized due to the co-ed environment) and a Merit-Badge Counselor.
But I fear that my family's affiliation with BSA is coming to a close. The kids need this sort of activity, so I am looking at TrailLife as an alternate group to support.

Posted by: deMontjoie at July 28, 2015 07:47 PM (msAGT)

421 The BSA will not have my son's asses. After all is said and done, these guys are just cock sucking buggers.

Posted by: 1st Class Scout at July 28, 2015 07:51 PM (zSLqp)

422 So glad my Eagle Scouts are adults now. I wouldn't give a penny for this organization now.

Posted by: SAHMmy at July 28, 2015 08:13 PM (DaDhj)

423 Hey Gabe,

The Cubscouts just hired me to show them how to lick their own assholes! !!11!! Isn't it wonderful? ???

Posted by: Yogi Freakscene Alienhead at July 28, 2015 08:52 PM (DyqiE)

424 9 After this decision, the Mormons are exploring the possibility of creating their own Scouts-like organization and take them at their word: troops will bail on the Scouts over this.

They've been developing a parallel program for decades, called Duty to God. I earned the DTG in the late 70s, awarded at the same time I earned my Eagle. The requirements have evolved significantly since then, along with the award program for young women 12-18.

Posted by: Sulla at July 28, 2015 11:08 PM (0GucZ)

425 "Discrimination on the basis of race, religion, national origin, sex, and sexual orientation is abhorrent"

really Gabe? get off your soap box you f'ing fascist.

First off I will discriminate all I can against some of the other 'religions' because many of them are CULTS and not religions like you, the government, and the media want us to think.

Secondly, I will discriminate all I want on the basis of national origin. If I meet with someone from certain countries that I know are against our country's beliefs, then, yes, I will be very cautious with them and won't allow them near my children until I am familiar with them.

Thirdly, I will discriminate constantly on the basis of sex. There is no way in hell I'm going to look at you or another man and have the same warm feeling inside I get when looking at a woman.

Finally, I will always discriminate based on sexual orientation. Certain orientations are sinful and dangerous to the human race and I will treat those people differently depending on the circumstance. I would assume that you would treat people who have a beastiality preference for their sexuality a bit differently as well, maybe keeping your pets on a leash or inside more often?

Abhorrent? Your statement is abhorrent.

Posted by: doug at July 29, 2015 02:00 AM (IYEs/)

426 So why exactly is it perfectly appropriate to ban heterosexual males from taking a Girl Scout Troop on an overnight camping trip but "abhorrent" to ban homosexual males from taking a Boy Scout Troop on an overnight camping trip? I assume homosexual men are as attracted to nubile, teen boys as I am nubile, teen girls.

Posted by: Lamont Cranston at July 29, 2015 04:26 AM (Rtyzj)

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