Trumps Gonna Trump

Wow. RT @alwaysonoffense: @AceofSpadesHQ https://t.co/BL0UaOJGHj pic.twitter.com/5r5GR0C8An
— Goat Floater (@howie1985_) July 18, 2015

Video here.

I have a few thoughts:

1, I'm trying to get away from that Internet Outrage thing, where everyone screams because someone said something impolitic about a Privileged Group (and on the right, at least, veterans are privileged -- you just can't mock them as a group, as you could on the left).

2. But while I'm trying not to flip out about this, I also have to recognize it's a dumb, crude thing to say. This joke -- I guess it's a joke -- is like dropping the word "fag" or "retard" about someone. You can say the target deserved it, but that's not the real question -- the real question is about all the people you didn't mean to target who are insulted by the slur, because slur includes them (or their loved ones).

One of the more difficult type of comments I have to respond to is from people with mentally-challenged children asking me why I have to use the word "retard." They're not objecting, obviously, on the target's behalf -- they're objecting because every such scattershot insult inflicts a lot of collateral damage to non-targeted persons.

I still use that word -- used it yesterday -- but I try to use it less.

Trump's comment doesn't just target McCain -- who I don't care about -- but all POWs. "I prefer the guys who don't get captured" -- oh, so those lousy POWs are incompetents and not classy and deserve their captivity because they were just too dumb not be superheroes, I guess?

So while I won't flip out about this and claim it's instantly disqualifying, it is deeply dumb and deeply offensive to many. Deeply impolitic -- and, if there's such a thing, deeply thoughtless.

3. And the problem is not just this comment; the problem is that we see now that this is a habit. Someone claimed to me yesterday that Trump had "balls." I countered: He doesn't have balls, he has Money -- he's a rich guy surrounded by favor-seekers and yes-men who hasn't been contradicted since he first spat the silver spoon out of his mouth. He has the arrogance that college athletes get sometimes, that lead some of them to do horrible things -- the arrogance of knowing there will never be consequences.

I don't call that balls. Balls -- courage -- is taking on an important fight knowing there will be consequences.

This is just an elderly rich kid with a big mouth.

4. People might say, "But he can learn." I disagree. For this reason only: In order to learn, one must wish to learn; and to wish to learn, of course, one must believe that there is something important yet to be learned, something that isn't already known to one's Big, Throbbing Wonderful Ego.

To wish to learn is an act of self-abasement; it is a brave act saying "I am incomplete, I am less than I should be."

Very egotistical men do not like learning. Learning is for the weak, or the young.

Trump went to Wharton, he's always eager to tell you; he did his learning then for a couple of years. He's all done now. Now, he will be giving lessons.

5. And that last bit -- the part about a man who has little knowledge of government, except in the favor-bank sector of it -- who actively despises learning about it, well, that could be a problem.

We just had one Know-Nothing Know-It-All Princeling as President; I'm not sure I'd like to see a different variation of the breed.

Posted by: Ace at 02:49 PM

Comments

(Jump to bottom of comments)

1 Meh.

Not picking up the mattress over this.

America is being raped.

More important.

Posted by: eman at July 18, 2015 02:56 PM (MQEz6)

2 Trump has said this before, back in the 2000s.

I thought he would have learned after what happened the last time.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at July 18, 2015 02:56 PM (gU+Ex)

3 yes i'm sure this will be the last outburst

Posted by: ace at July 18, 2015 02:56 PM (bhepQ)

4 I don't know if I should be insulted or complimented, on Twitter Trump lumped me into a group of
Obama plays Basketball

I ignored it & him.

Posted by: Carol at July 18, 2015 02:57 PM (sj3Ax)

5 I've got vague memories of the Left saying similar things back in '08.

In any case, Trump is an idiot, but at the moment he is a useful idiot for our side. I assume that he will eventually burn out and probably sooner rather than later, but in the meantime I'm happy to let him continue shaking things up and disconcerting the GOPe establishment.

Posted by: Grey Fox at July 18, 2015 02:57 PM (a42f0)

6 What did he say after that?

Posted by: eman at July 18, 2015 02:57 PM (MQEz6)

7 Yeah, I saw that this morning, and my thought was, he's pretty much done. Most POWs knew they could be captured, and they went in anyway, knowing that.

You might as well say, soldiers who die, they're not heroes. We should only celebrate those who survived.

That said, I wish he'd taken a little longer to say something this stupid. I had hoped that his jumping on immigration was the result of meeting what the market wants, so to speak, the market being the most voters possible; thus forcing the other candidates to also address the important issues.

But while there have always been some people who complain that McCain shouldn't have allowed himself to get shot down, it's not been a winning argument. And I have to admit, I dislike it more coming from the right than from the left.

Posted by: Stephen Price Blair at July 18, 2015 02:57 PM (J0IP0)

8 Can we agree that he's at least useful? I think he's going to force the GOP a-holes to at least appear to have a spine.

Posted by: Weasel at July 18, 2015 02:57 PM (e3bId)

9 In order to learn, one must wish to learn; and to wish to learn, of
course, one must believe that there is something important yet to be
learned, something that isn't already known to one's Big, Throbbing
Wonderful Ego.

Exhibit A, the JEF.

Posted by: HR trinken trinken trinken at July 18, 2015 02:59 PM (rHXGG)

10 I honestly don't GAF what comes out of The Donald's mouth.

Posted by: I. Dindoo Nuffin at July 18, 2015 02:59 PM (5fSr7)

11 "I still use that word -- used it yesterday -- but I try to use it less."

From one such parent, thanks Mr. Of Spades.

Posted by: Mr. AR10 at July 18, 2015 03:00 PM (zZyu4)

12
Is that what Trump meant? I mean really meant?

Why are we participating in the Left's game of Verbal Gotcha!?

Are we children? Are we childish totalitarians who will nitpick a few selected words so we can use that bullshit to dismiss a person't position on Everything Else?

Ace, you asked yesterday if we could have an honest debate anymore?

THIS is one reason we cannot.

Posted by: Soothsayer's Home For Imaginary Friends at July 18, 2015 03:01 PM (m66o0)

13 Wow, an Ace Saturday cameo!

Posted by: logprof at July 18, 2015 03:01 PM (bLXqW)

14 As a veteran, one that was in war, I can understand your argument that it offends some people who are innocent bystanders.

I thought I just read a post here that argued that another person's offense does not make their position legitimate or something along those lines.

I agree with trump on this one. Being a POW does not make you a HERO. Plain and simple. Any tom dick or mary can be a POW, even non military members. It does not make them heroes. What makes a person a hero is facing evil adversity and defeating it. Whether that adversity was slavery as in the 1800s, the NAZIs in Europe, Hussein's Iraq, the KKK in America. As long as what you face is evil and you defeat it, or at the very least take more of them out than they take out of you. Yes, you can be a hero that is also a POW, you can be a dead hero, and you can be a living breathing legendary hero.

But just being a hero does not in and of itself make you a hero. John McCain is living proof of that. He has spent his life since being a POW fighting the good aspects of America and helping defeat them.

Posted by: astonerii at July 18, 2015 03:01 PM (o/DjS)

15 It is myopic and silly to agonize over this.

America is being raped.

Posted by: eman at July 18, 2015 03:01 PM (MQEz6)

16 I've been holding back comment re: Trump, but watching the various points of view. I think you are spot on, Ace. (not quite threadwinner quality, but close).

I never thought of Trump as the savior of the Republican Party, the savior of republican representative government or the savior of America.

Trump acts in Trump's own self interest and never met a camera/microphone he didn't like. Slow motion train wreck.

Posted by: Muldoon, a solid man at July 18, 2015 03:02 PM (NeFrd)

17 Posted by: Soothsayer's Home For Imaginary Friends at July 18, 2015 03:01 PM (m66o0)

Trump has said this exact same thing in the past: McCain got shot down, he isn't a war hero.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at July 18, 2015 03:02 PM (gU+Ex)

18 I'm not that worked up over what Trump said, because I get the point he was trying to make. McCain was a screw-up as a pilot; he was arrogant and reckless and a show-off who took foolish chances (which is why he had so many crashes). I think Trump was just pointing out that there is a reason why McCain was captured, and it doesn't reflect well on McCain. Of course, lots of people don't know McCain's backstory, so they don't get the jab. But yes, Trump's remarks could be construed as insulting to the many other POW's who were captured through no fault of their own, so Trump should have been more careful in how he expressed himself.

Posted by: TrivialPursuer at July 18, 2015 03:02 PM (kGrdk)

19 Donald Trump has made his career off the fringes. He grew wealthy from doing the things that good and decent business people don't do: using eminent domain to the hilt, trucking in shady ventures like casinos and beauty pageants (which are as corrupt as all get-out), etc. He knows there's a ton of cash on the fringes and he's happy to scoop it up. He also knows he can't stay there, so he's ready to step back a little bit away from the fringes to maintain the illusion of respectability. In truth, his business dealings are sleazy but incredibly lucrative.

He's done the same sort of stuff to get attention, which is every bit as important to him as his wealth. More on that in a minute. Whenever his star has faded, he's jumped into another high-profile mudslinging contest to keep his name in the headlines. That's what he's doing right now with his "campaign". He's seen a vacuum in the GOP and he's filling it in the same manner he always has -- work the shady edges and say whatever he needs to say to stay in the headlines. Where he's weakest is where he has to woo respectable voters, which is where you find all his walk-back statements. He goes outrageous for the headlines then takes a step or two back.

In a couple months, what he said about John McCain won't be a big deal because he'll have stepped back a pace or two, then gone off in a new direction. He'll get different headlines and find another pot of money he can empty because he has no scruples at all.

The very best thing we can do is deprive him of one of the two things he needs like oxygen: attention. Whenever he says something outrageous, we yawn "Oh, him again? Meh." He'll get more and more crazy in an effort to get our attention but he shouldn't get it. Eventually, he'll move on and we can clean up our house of all the slime he left while he was here.

Posted by: Jimmie at July 18, 2015 03:03 PM (Mdans)

20 I completely agree w/you, Ace.

It's one of Trump's weaknesses: he loves to mix-it-up w/people he doesn't like, such as his ongoing feud w/Rosie O'Donnell. ANd he will say some harsh things while doing it. Which is fine when it's NYC celebrity/Apprentice host Trump. Not so cool when he's doing it as a GOP candidate, because it WILL be held against the GOP.

Posted by: Lizzy at July 18, 2015 03:03 PM (NOIQH)

21 I'm more likely to be insulted on behalf of other men than John McCain. Like John Glenn, I think he's wiped his ass on the country enough to counterbalance some of their more noble moments in the past.

Posted by: Pappy O'Daniel at July 18, 2015 03:03 PM (oVJmc)

22
McCain is a piece of shit. He's no hero to me.

Posted by: Soothsayer's Home For Imaginary Friends at July 18, 2015 03:04 PM (m66o0)

23 Meant, just being a POW does not make you a hero...

Posted by: astonerii at July 18, 2015 03:04 PM (o/DjS)

24 >>>From one such parent, thanks Mr. Of Spades.

well thanks, and sorry I still use it.

As hard a thing as this is to say, sometimes the word is necessary for a joke, and in those moments, I do say: Well, sorry to the families of the mentally challenged, but I'm going to ignore them here.

I tried to think of way to finish the headline without that word and nothing worked.

Posted by: ace at July 18, 2015 03:04 PM (bhepQ)

25 Nobody _actually_ wants him to win. We're just sick of everybody acting offended at a lot of shit that needs to be said.

I'd rather he'd have just said, "John McCain? Fuck that guy."

Posted by: meekle at July 18, 2015 03:05 PM (94iKh)

26 But just being a hero does not in and of itself make you a hero.

It all depends on what the meaning of is, is.

Posted by: Stephen Price Blair at July 18, 2015 03:05 PM (J0IP0)

27 My reaction to this: So will all the crazy-ass retard RINOs of one flavor or another please stop trying to shove commie-ass traitors like Obama or Trump down our fucking throats? PLEASE?

Maybe just go suck on Caitlyn's dick for a while to keep yourselves amused instead? I hear it's detachable, that sould be a big plus to you.

Posted by: Thing From Snowy Mountain at July 18, 2015 03:05 PM (2bMA4)

28 People spend a lot of time and energy attacking Trump.

How much of it is an effort to just not have certain things said?

Posted by: eman at July 18, 2015 03:06 PM (MQEz6)

29 Ace,

I wrote this a few hours ago in an earlier post.....

"I despise McCain, and find almost everything about him repugnant.

But....there
is no doubt that he served honorably and comported himself with dignity
as a POW. He upheld the highest traditions of our armed forces.

His service does not make him untouchable, but criticizing that service is beneath contempt."

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at July 18, 2015 03:06 PM (Zu3d9)

30 Note this: I'm not taking this opportunity to attack Trump.

I'm taking this opportunity to attack all of you gay cocksucker commie retard RINOS who were pretending Trump wasn't just another retard commie traitor RINO.

Posted by: Thing From Snowy Mountain at July 18, 2015 03:06 PM (2bMA4)

31 >>>Ace, you asked yesterday if we could have an honest debate anymore?

THIS is one reason we cannot.

...

i offered my honest take -- do you disagree with it?

Don't shut down my speech, bro -- if you have a point of disagreement, Use Your Words to tell me how I'm wrong, and tell me how this isn't a crude, thoughtless thing to say.

Posted by: ace at July 18, 2015 03:06 PM (bhepQ)

32 Meh. Isn't this how Brooklyn folks talk... all brash and line-crossing? The press is going to keep asking Trump insipid questions and asking for his opinions and it's Sarah Palin and magazines all over again. They never ask Donks anything ever except how they like fashion or somesuch. These moderators will not ask Jeb about dynasty or big money....until he's the nominee.

All to do about nothing. McCain's horrid nomination in 2008 lead to Obama. Maybe no one could have beaten Obama.. BUT McCain was inept. He is a RINO of the first order and has ridden his POW status to deflect criticism for years. Trump will be fine. The more press the better.

I ask you this.... of the 18% or so that already support Trump in the polls.. how many know who John McCain is? How many LIKE John McCain or think his is above reproach? How many of Trumps supporters at this stage just want to give the finger to the MSM and the GOPe and are sooper pissed about being ignored? I will posit this will matter not one wit to any of them at all.

Posted by: Yip at July 18, 2015 03:06 PM (e7T6D)

33 Sure, Trump is arrogant and egocentric -- but that is not so unusual, or a disqualifier to be president. If he was absolutely or pathologically arrogant and egocentric, as say Obama, he wouldn't have been able to humbly solicit the audience of the victims of the illegal immigrants and otherwise to talk about those less fortunate (which he does quite a bit) -- unless of course you think that is all insincere manipulative show. I do not believe that.

I simply think he likes to talk and opine (compulsively maybe) and doesn't have as well-managed a sluice-gate between thoughts and words as as other politicians do. He doesn't like McCain and he allowed this feeling to contaminate his larger critique of McCain. He saw an opportunity to take on McCain's strongest suit and couldn't resist. He's a gambler, and probably thought for an instant his comments would be seen as brave apostasy. That's a problem, but I'm not sure it confirms this awful image of Trump as some kind of moneyed ego-ogre.

I take from this that Trump really doesn't like McCain, that's all.

Posted by: rrpjr at July 18, 2015 03:07 PM (s/yC1)

34 Trump is a stalking horse for Jeb. Now that he is getting a little attention Trump has to ratchet up the stupid so people can start exiting the Trump train and go to nice safe Jeb.

Posted by: Shtetl G at July 18, 2015 03:07 PM (7jQai)

35
How does it feel to agree with El Chapo?

I wonder if El Chapo is pro-choice, too. And cool with men having husbands.

Posted by: Soothsayer's Home For Imaginary Friends at July 18, 2015 03:07 PM (m66o0)

36 Would McCain disagree? Calling everybody who shows up in a uniform a "hero" debases the word hero. So if McCain wouldn't call himself a hero, hard to see how Trump is wrong on the merits of his argument, not that anybody cares about that.

Posted by: bjk at July 18, 2015 03:08 PM (x2rNW)

37 >>>>Nobody _actually_ wants him to win. We're just sick of everybody acting offended at a lot of shit that needs to be said.

I'd rather he'd have just said, "John McCain? Fuck that guy."

...

i would have no problem at all with that. Nor with asking, for example, what McCain has done *since* his years of honorable captivity.

Posted by: ace at July 18, 2015 03:08 PM (bhepQ)

38 i would even defend a "he's been dining out on that for 40 years; isn't he supposed to have been doing things since?"

Posted by: ace at July 18, 2015 03:08 PM (bhepQ)

39 @26 I corrected. In context, it should be obvious my intention.

Posted by: astonerii at July 18, 2015 03:09 PM (o/DjS)

40 People spend a lot of time and energy attacking Trump.

Trump just spent a whole lot of energy attacking Trump. I'm just spending energy attacking all of cum-chinned motherfuckers who like this asshole anyway. He's a classic false-flag agent provocateur. Pretending to be conservative for a while so when he self destructs (like he is here).

Fine. You expressed your anger. You became another useful idiot for the democrats. You let yourself be manipulated, and all to defend another liberal just because he was insulting hispanics, legal and illegal, on the road to pretending to take a stand on illegal immigration.

Proud?

Posted by: Thing From Snowy Mountain at July 18, 2015 03:10 PM (2bMA4)

41 We just had one Know-Nothing Know-It-All Princeling as President; I'm not sure I'd like to see a different variation of the breed.

I'm sure, and the guy would be a disaster. Shit, Obama ostensibly KNOWS the Constitution and is a clownshow.

Donald "I'll-Use-Eminent-Domain-Whenever-It-Good-and-Well-Suits-Me" Trump doesn't know the first thing about restoring freedom.

Posted by: Hurricane LaFawnduh at July 18, 2015 03:10 PM (laMCB)

42 My friend the army colonel has stated repeatedly that calling pows heroes is wrong. Getting captured does not make you a hero. Their job is not to get captured and they are not suppose to encourage soldiers to be captured. And remember Patton's comment that it is not your job to die for your country but to make the other bastard die for his?

These are not difficult concepts. I think you have a case of the feelz, Ace. Take two aspirin, rest, and call me in the morning..

Posted by: Bruce With a Wang! at July 18, 2015 03:10 PM (iQIUe)

43 >>>How does it feel to agree with El Chapo?

I wonder if El Chapo is pro-choice, too. And cool with men having husbands.

...

oh this is your version of honest debate, Soothsayer?

Gooning it up? Asking me how it feels to agree with a mexican drug bandit?

You're a fool. You took "honest debate," i guess, to mean "shit that I agree with."

No, honest debate means honest statements, without these bullshit, asinine rhetorical goonish gambits like "Well, well, well you agree with a mexican drug bandit then!!"

you need to look at yourself.

Posted by: ace at July 18, 2015 03:10 PM (bhepQ)

44 i would even defend a "he's been dining out on that for 40 years; isn't he supposed to have been doing things since?"

Posted by: ace at July 18, 2015 03:08 PM (bhepQ)

****

Or perhaps more concisely- "What have you done for us lately?"

Posted by: Muldoon, a solid man at July 18, 2015 03:10 PM (NeFrd)

45 >> "he's been dining out on that for 40 years; isn't he supposed to have been doing things since?"

Why won't anyone say that?

Posted by: Lizzy at July 18, 2015 03:10 PM (NOIQH)

46 It is not the end of the world when someone says something stupid or insulting or troubling.

Get over it and focus on what is important.

You either play the modern "gotcha" game or you don't.

Posted by: eman at July 18, 2015 03:10 PM (MQEz6)

47 Shame on Trump. I thought he was the guy who did his homework.

As much as I cannot stand McCain. The guy is a hero for getting shot down on a mission and then refusing to go home early until his fellow POW's were released.
He was treated much more badly after that too, so they say.

Posted by: Drider at July 18, 2015 03:11 PM (6Xbsz)

48

Trump is being attacked, let's be honest, because we are powerless to attack the real evil in our presence.

We can't defeat obama or clinton or msnbc or Planned Abortionhood, or even Bernie Sanders. So we claw at the easy targets. This week it's Trump. Next week it will Ann Coulter or Rush. After that it will be Franklin Graham for something he said.

Posted by: Soothsayer's Home For Imaginary Friends at July 18, 2015 03:11 PM (m66o0)

49 I seem to remember watching tv commercial on armed forces network saying "if you are about to be captured you must evade capture and resist as much as possible." So in that case yes capture is a failure. It's a failure not to be captured.

Posted by: bjk at July 18, 2015 03:12 PM (x2rNW)

50 8
Can we agree that he's at least useful? I think he's going to force the GOP a-holes to at least appear to have a spine.

Posted by: Weasel

IMO, he was useful, because he turned the heat on the other GOP candidates. However, saying stupid stuff like this discredits him, and by extension, the issues he raises. The GOPe will now simply dismiss anti-amnesty as the ravings of a self-indulgent clown.

Posted by: pep at July 18, 2015 03:12 PM (LAe3v)

51 Due respect Ace you have no idea who Trump is surrounded by and you're being naive to assume he doesn't have to answer to people. He has already lost quite a bit of money by saying the things he is saying. He has partners, employees, suppliers, sponsors, investors, tenants, and other business associates. You seem to be claiming none of them have raised any objections to his statements but I think you would be wrong. Finally, anyone that has built what Trump possesses some degree of balls. Probably more than an anonymous Internet pundit I might add. On the substance, I actually believe McCain has worn out the "hero" card. He has been a net drain for years.

Posted by: Chris Vaughn at July 18, 2015 03:12 PM (Bcqod)

52
Not offended by what Trump said. I AM greatly offended by the existence and prominence of John Kerry, who DID insult me and all my brethren.

Posted by: irongrampa at July 18, 2015 03:12 PM (jeCnD)

53 #29 ACE
There is a big difference between attacking his service and arguing that he was not a hero. Not ever service member is a hero just by stint of serving or even going to war. I am certainly no hero and I spent time in theater for the first gulf war. The closest I got to action was crossing the theoretical line into Iraq to retrieve a broken down vehicle.
If we throw the word hero around to every one on the planet for any reason, then what is the meaning of the word?

Posted by: astonerii at July 18, 2015 03:13 PM (o/DjS)

54 It is myopic and silly to agonize over this.

America is being raped.

Yah, it's being raped by people like our former secretary of state and current presidental candidate who supports the Iranian Nuke Procurement Deal. Who Trump gave hyndreds of thousands of dollars to.

It doesn't hurt the country to point out that Trump's a stupid fucking asshole.

Posted by: Thing From Snowy Mountain at July 18, 2015 03:13 PM (2bMA4)

55 I calls them as I sees them.

McCain is shit, was shit and it's time for him to hit the bricks pal because he's all done.

Vote Trump 2016!.....because I ain't John McCain.

Posted by: Donald Trump at July 18, 2015 03:13 PM (JG47A)

56 "I tried to think of way to finish the headline without that word and nothing worked.

Posted by: ace"

Sure, and fwiw, I understand this. It's part of the language, we know this. Retard, short bus, etc. Truth be told, parents of children such as ours have more important things to worry about. Of course I can only speak for myself.

But I do think it's indelicate and were people to avoid using these terms, that would be nice.

Posted by: Mr. AR10 at July 18, 2015 03:13 PM (zZyu4)

57 I think we're on the same page. To me it seems really early to be doing so much hand-wringing...

I'd rather be conspiracy theorizing... Donald Trump's real purpose is to attack and break up conservative social networks. Discuss

Posted by: meekle at July 18, 2015 03:13 PM (94iKh)

58 Trump is an idiot. Not a big McCain supporter but he is not a hero because of being shot down and being a POW, but his actions as a POW. That he did not use his status as the son of a high ranking military official to get home. For that he should be held in esteem, but that is separate from what he has done since then.

As for Trump, thank you for providing to the numbnuts at the MSM, etc. some ammo to lump him in with the rest of the GOP field and damage the party (then again the GOP does a good job doing the same to themselves).

Posted by: RGallegos at July 18, 2015 03:13 PM (49Jfq)

59 Posted by: Thing From Snowy Mountain at July 18, 2015 03:10 PM (2bMA4)

Nonsense.

Trump has said what needed to be said.

Insulting Hispanics?

Nice try, troll.

Posted by: eman at July 18, 2015 03:14 PM (MQEz6)

60 Posted by: Chris Vaughn at July 18, 2015 03:12 PM (Bcqod)

Well said.

Posted by: rrpjr at July 18, 2015 03:14 PM (s/yC1)

61 Ain't that, "whom I don't care for"?

Posted by: Guitanguran at July 18, 2015 03:14 PM (PFEBk)

62
A tad more context than a 12 second pull quote:

https://youtu.be/7k1ajHAeXMU

6:29 worth. Don't see a transcript up of the whole talk.

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at July 18, 2015 03:14 PM (kdS6q)

63 Posted by: Drider at July 18, 2015 03:11 PM (6Xbsz)

Oh please....McCain behaved honorably as a POW. He simply didn't break the long-standing rules of captivity....first in....first out.

That doesn't make him a hero.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at July 18, 2015 03:15 PM (Zu3d9)

64 As much as I cannot stand McCain. The guy is a hero
for getting shot down on a mission and then refusing to go home early
until his fellow POW's were released.

He was treated much more badly after that too, so they say.

Posted by: Drider

Exactly.

Posted by: pep at July 18, 2015 03:15 PM (LAe3v)

65
Your headline says it all, ace.

And Trump's significance - isn't it obvious, or am I delusional here? - isn't Trump, it's about what his ability to get some traction says about the poverty and awfulness of "mainstream politics" today.

And eman I think I like your comment "not gonna pick up the mattress over this". First time I've seen this. Ace, I think this could be a nice new idiomatic expression, memorializing the absurdity of our SJW-degraded civic culture: "hey, I'm not gonna pick up the matress over this". It has a quality of good idiomatic expressions - linkage to a specific real-world thing that is probably eventually lost to memory (for most). Like "the whole nine yards".

Posted by: rhomboid at July 18, 2015 03:16 PM (QDnY+)

66 >>>There is a big difference between attacking his service and arguing that he was not a hero. Not ever service member is a hero just by stint of serving or even going to war. I am certainly no hero and I spent time in theater for the first gulf war. The closest I got to action was crossing the theoretical line into Iraq to retrieve a broken down vehicle.
If we throw the word hero around to every one on the planet for any reason, then what is the meaning of the word?

...

the north vietnamese wanted to trade back McCain, ahead of everyone else, because his dad was an Admiral, and they sought to curry favor.

McCain insisted on staying with the guys, and only going when they all went.

He stayed for seven years.

Yes, that's a heroic thing.

what's trump's claim to heroism? Saving the Miss Universe pageant from chapter 11?

Posted by: ace at July 18, 2015 03:16 PM (bhepQ)

67 Just another Bloomberg.

Posted by: richard mcenroe at July 18, 2015 03:16 PM (qc1ke)

68 >>>He has the arrogance that college athletes get sometimes, that lead some of them to do horrible things -- the arrogance of knowing there will never be consequences.

Yeah, those darned college athletes. Trump sure lost the veteran's vote with this flub. The left has nothing to fear.

Posted by: Eric Shinseki at July 18, 2015 03:16 PM (6qR/9)

69 Beside what Ace just wrote, The Donald is a RINO. Go read the man's platform, I'm not just throwing RINO as an epithet.

He really, actually is a Republican In Name Only.

Posted by: CozMark at July 18, 2015 03:17 PM (52QgN)

70 I already lost my shit about this over at Hotair, so I'll try not to here, but Trump got four deferments, and now he's shitting on guys who volunteered to fly into a skyful of SAMs over Hanoi.

I can't stand McCain as a senator, but Trump is fucking over McCain's voluntary combat service as well as that of Admiral Stockdale, Col Day (who was a friend of my husband's, and a truly great man), Admiral Denton, Congressman Johnson, and every single other Hanoi POW.

Trump is now in the same category as Code Pink and Jane Fonda and if he won't drop out, he needs to at least be repeatedly kicked in the junk.

Posted by: stace at July 18, 2015 03:18 PM (CoX6k)

71 Mildly offensive. Comment was thoughtless, but not intended to demean or belittle. I'm more offended by Jeb Bush saying illegal immigration is an act of love.

So, I'll be staying off the Outrage Train on this one.

Posted by: Mr. Estrada at July 18, 2015 03:19 PM (RPsRI)

72 I thought McCain stayed bc there was a rule that the ones their longest got to be swapped first. In fact his cellmate who cared for an injured McCain, wiped his ass and fed him for months, went one ahead and McCain hated him and only spoke to him one time since.

Posted by: Bruce With a Wang! at July 18, 2015 03:19 PM (iQIUe)

73 One last thing about McCain: I call him a hero because he went into an extremely dangerous situation, one that could very easily have gotten him killed, and did what his country asked him to do. The fact that he lived (barely) after being shot down doesn't diminish his bravery.

I have no use for him as a politician, but I doubt most of the tough guy commenters here have the stones to do what he did.

Posted by: pep at July 18, 2015 03:19 PM (LAe3v)

74 Is it just that "idiot" and "moron" fell out of clinical usage well before "retarded" did, that we don't feel the same compunction in their use?

Posted by: irright at July 18, 2015 03:19 PM (DtNNC)

75 Drop out my junk.

This is how he will ruin social networks. "Donald Trump must drop out!11!! And you're a doodie head.". Unfollow.

Posted by: meekle at July 18, 2015 03:20 PM (94iKh)

76 This comment by Trump makes no difference to me. Still going to vote for him against the uniparty.

And, I understand what he was saying. This was a comment intended for McCain and McCain alone and came out a little inartfully.

I've watched Trump for many years. That's just the way he delivers his sarcastic comments. It's part of his speech patterns. The rat-a-tat-tat of his zingers.

Posted by: Misfortune & Pestilence at July 18, 2015 03:20 PM (vHFh+)

77 Um, its a little hard to avoid being taken POW when you're supposed to be flying missions behind enemy lines and you get shot down.

Its not like you abandoned your post and wandered over to an Afghan village.

Also, "don't get shot down" is easy to say. Good luck when the enemy defends the targeted bridge or whatever with AA guns. "Just avoid the air bursts of 20 mm flak"

Posted by: Harun at July 18, 2015 03:20 PM (UBBWX)

78 It wasn't stones. It was idiocy. Donald Trump is half idiot.

Posted by: meekle at July 18, 2015 03:20 PM (94iKh)

79 Posted by: ace at July 18, 2015 03:16 PM (bhepQ)

The tradition (and, for all I know, the military code of justice) says that those who are captured first go home first. What McCain did was honorable and in keeping with the highest traditions of our armed forces. I am not sure that it rises to the level of heroism.

Surviving the despicable treatment that the North Vietnamese heaped upon him is a different issue. He was one tough SOB to be able to handle that.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at July 18, 2015 03:21 PM (Zu3d9)

80 >>> Is it just that "idiot" and "moron" fell out of clinical usage well before "retarded" did, that we don't feel the same compunction in their use?

most likely, yes.

Posted by: ace at July 18, 2015 03:21 PM (bhepQ)

81 Yesterday you went off on Twitter about going after people on "our side" with hammer and tongs. You were rebuffed by a few people w/r/t Trump, myself included. Here's the thing - I think that there is a huge need for the Actual Argument that you want us to have. However, w/ Trump, he's so toxic and damaging, I think it hurts our side to a) support him b) pretend he's anything but an albatross.*

This example is exactly why although a convo about abortion is necessary, I submit that a convo about Trump is pointless. I get that a significant # of "our people" support him. It's sad and mystifying, and the supporters I've seen don't seem to want to have his general awfulness explained to them.

So, my thought is that what you're saying about the media filtering what is important and having Actual Conversations is correct - but Trump lies outside that. I mean, I would literally rather have Hillary than Trump. When you compare Trump to Ross Perot, Ross Perot starts looking like the stable and sensible choice in retrospect.** Any amount of research at all shows that he's horrid. I'm not sure that people who support him are those that are even discussion-with-able.

* The albatross was a sign of luck - until they killed it.
** For whippersnappers, he ran, dropped out, then tried to run again.

Posted by: nerble at July 18, 2015 03:21 PM (aNcWi)

82 If Trump goes away, you will get another safe, mushy campaign of cold oatmeal.

After which the Jeb loses like a Gentleman.

Posted by: eman at July 18, 2015 03:21 PM (MQEz6)

83 Ace,I like your description of Trump-elderly Rich kid with a big mouth.
I don't like McCain for trying to neutralize conservatives attacking anyone he disagrees with. Arizona can do better. I heard woman on Levin show last night who's going to run against him in R primary next year. I can only remember her first name Kelli.

Posted by: Carol at July 18, 2015 03:21 PM (sj3Ax)

84 A very good friend of mine, whose husband retired as a colonel from the Marines, was always quick to say that the uniform didn't mean the person wearing was a great or even good person.

James Stockdale was the senior Naval Officer in captivity in North Viet Nam. He was brutally tortured, but never broke. He eventually came home, wrote a book about it. He ran as Ross Perot's VP in 1992, and because of his torture, his hearing was wrecked, and the night of the VP debate, he was fumbling with his hearing aid and came across as somewhat incoherent.
A very bright and brave man, better than Dan Quayle or Al Gore, was made to look foolish on the TV. And when he died, one of the local radio know-it-alls kinda mocked him for that.
James Stockdale, one of the noblest men to ever where our Navy's uniform, is remembered by many as a hard-of -hearing boob on a TV debate with two real boobs.

Something to consider when Trump says the kinds of things we WANT to hear, and then says things that we filter out.

George Washington's doppleganger is not about to appear and run for President. We are stuck with a group of, for the most part, unpleasant mediocrities.
Joe "Forrest Gump" Biden may run. Hillary Corleone Clinton is running (she's told us at least twice). John Forbes Kerry, Viet Nam runaway, may run. Bernie 'the open socialist' Sanders from Nowhere Vermont is also running; the nancy boys and girls like him.
Then the Republicans: Debby Bush, Mike Huckabuzzkill, Rick from the Sanitarium, George Pataskala, Rick "nice hair, no memory" Perry, Bobby "personality" Jindal, Ted "Canada" Cruz, and Scott Pawlenty Walker.

And then there's Bubba Trump and his big mouth and 9 billion dollars.

One of my co-workers (a Leftist) remarked the other day how screwed up America could be that Trump could run for President. This is the new meme of the Left. I think he reads HuffPo.

Trump's a rich butthead, and I really don't want him to win, but against this field of milk toasts and wieners, what are people supposed to do?

Posted by: Bossy Conservative....outlaw in America at July 18, 2015 03:21 PM (+1T7c)

85 I dont like Trump. But b/c I dont like him doesnt mean I am going to say or agree with things I believe are untrue or wrong.

Posted by: Bruce With a Wang! at July 18, 2015 03:22 PM (iQIUe)

86 Not a lot of good things are happening to people in wars.

People are are heroes because of the way they handle the bad things that are happening, including being taken prisoner.

Whether I like McCain or not, McCain is a hero because of the way he handled one of the worst case scenarios of human existence.

Posted by: hairless mule at July 18, 2015 03:23 PM (EqmTZ)

87 People talk about the money and gigs trump has lost. Either:

1. He is genuinely so arrogant and cocooned that he couldn't see that coming, in which case he is unfit for the Presidency, or--

2. He envisions an even bigger payout down the line, in which case we shouldb't trust him with the Presidency.

Posted by: richard mcenroe at July 18, 2015 03:23 PM (qc1ke)

88 I probably wouldn't have been a fan of John McCain's politics, but if I was alive I would write something darn philosophical about Donald Trump and the triumph of style over substance in America.

Posted by: Bond, James Bond Stockdale (U.S.A., Ret., Spinning Rapidly) at July 18, 2015 03:23 PM (ZsN9X)

89 >>>This example is exactly why although a convo about abortion is necessary, I submit that a convo about Trump is pointless. I get that a significant # of "our people" support him. It's sad and mystifying, and the supporters I've seen don't seem to want to have his general awfulness explained to them.

I don't know, I Used My Words and said what I believed; how do you know it's pointless?

In any event, personalizing it and going after his supporters is guaranteed to be pointless. Most people double-down when they are attacked personally.

Posted by: ace at July 18, 2015 03:24 PM (bhepQ)

90 I found McCain potential R primary opponent on Levin's Daily Recap- Kelli Ward.

Posted by: Carol at July 18, 2015 03:24 PM (sj3Ax)

91
If you think you need to be offended, look no further than Kerry--he provides all the reason.

Trump's comment? Not so much.

Posted by: irongrampa at July 18, 2015 03:24 PM (jeCnD)

92 There is a big difference between attacking his service and arguing that he was not a hero. Not ever service member is a hero just by stint of serving or even going to war. Posted by: astonerii at July 18, 2015 03:13 PM (o/DjS)

Jeez, what is this place, Salon.com?

Trump also said:

"I prefer the guys who don't get captured"

He shit all over ALL of the POWs. He just smeared feces all over himself and drove the proverbial schoolbus into the trainload of toxic waste and retarded clowns.

Posted by: stace at July 18, 2015 03:25 PM (CoX6k)

93 It's a question of timing. Why would anyone want to shut the Donald Trump Show down now? We haven't even gotten to the good parts... and there's lots of time.

Posted by: meekle at July 18, 2015 03:26 PM (94iKh)

94 So, my thought is that what you're saying about the media filtering what is important and having Actual Conversations is correct - but Trump lies outside that.

Everything lies outside 'that' to someone. Some people want no discussion on gay marriage. Some want no discussion on illegal immigration.

Trunp is just your thing you want no one to discuss.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at July 18, 2015 03:27 PM (gU+Ex)

95 The absurd (and predictable) part of all this is -- watch the MSM suddenly take up the cause of honorable POWs grievously hurt by Trump.

Posted by: rrpjr at July 18, 2015 03:27 PM (s/yC1)

96 >> Most people double-down when they are attacked personally.

Thus destroying coalition and network power.

Posted by: meekle at July 18, 2015 03:27 PM (94iKh)

97 What this country needs is more "my friends", and such.

The good news is it won't matter much after the coming nuclear exchange in the ME.

Posted by: nip at July 18, 2015 03:27 PM (//QPb)

98 We are stuck with a group of, for the most part, unpleasant mediocrities.
Joe "Forrest Gump" Biden may run. Hillary Corleone Clinton is running (she's told us at least twice). John Forbes Kerry, Viet Nam runaway, may run. Bernie 'the open socialist' Sanders from Nowhere Vermont

*****

A veritable Mount Rushmore of incompetence.

Posted by: Muldoon, a solid man at July 18, 2015 03:27 PM (NeFrd)

99 And the one's doing the attacking are the "so smart bunch" The Malors and Popehats. Insufferable.

Posted by: meekle at July 18, 2015 03:28 PM (94iKh)

100
The copies of the U.S. Constitution are in a waste bin at the White House, the Capitol, and the Supreme Court.

And some of you are all third-party offended because Trump *offended* No One In Particular but a particular subset of a subset of a subset of people.

Posted by: Soothsayer's Home For Imaginary Friends at July 18, 2015 03:28 PM (m66o0)

101 I can't get video to play.

Posted by: Carol at July 18, 2015 03:28 PM (sj3Ax)

102 I'm like a chocolate sampler. You never know what's coming out next.

Still, given the VA scandal, the left will lose if they decide to play chicken on this one.

Posted by: Forrest Trump at July 18, 2015 03:28 PM (6qR/9)

103 (sock off)

Stockdale once said, and I'm paraphrasing:

"There's no shame in breaking. Every man breaks under torture. But after they finally let you get some rest, and they show you the document you signed, you have to deny it and make them do it all over again."

I'd like to see Donald Trump do that.

Posted by: Oschisms at July 18, 2015 03:29 PM (ZsN9X)

104 The GOP is the reason Trump is pulling a decent percentage, much moreso than Trump himself. He's just currently occupying a void the R's have left. The problems Trump causes the GOP would still be there, even if he weren't running, because they are the problems the GOP has caused itself. I will grant the problems would be much more under the surface, and easily ignored, but they would still be there almost exactly as they are now.

I happen to agree with the substance of much of what a person like Kevin Williamson is writing about Trump. I do feel he is indeed a fraud. It's just that in so far as it presents a problem for the GOP, I am unconvinced I should care. I'm currently of the opinion that is a more of a feature. I am essentially in the Drew M. camp, but the election is also more than a year away. It's real cheap and easy to be in that camp now, so I question if the levels Trump polls at are anywhere near a true ceiling if there were a real election looming.

Knowing myself, I'll probably ultimately suck it up and get in line right behind some POS candidate around 1 year from now. Don't necessarily like that about myself, but that's my history. I'm a cheap date. Many of you are too.

A major problem with what Trump said today is that it is simply idiotic politically. It is really easy to get up there in front of a crowd and fire some zingers at McCain's expense that will win some support. It is really hard to screw it up. Yet, he did. As long as Trump is a problem for the GOP, I've got a weird and confusing relationship with him as a candidate.

What Trump did today wasn't a problem for the GOP. He's got people racing to see who can defend John F. McCain the quickest, and most enthusiastically. No, that's not a problem for the GOP. That's a problem for me, and I don't much care for problems for me.

Posted by: Dave S. at July 18, 2015 03:29 PM (mhkbv)

105 >> I don't know, I Used My Words and said what I believed; how do you know it's pointless?

In any event, personalizing it and going after his supporters is guaranteed to be pointless. Most people double-down when they are attacked personally.

I have interacted with 0 Trump supporters, and if I did, I would start by pointing out his history. However, I've yet to see one exchange where someone said, "Oh, damn, I didn't know he did / said that. I guess I'll need to look closer at his record." Most reposes to facts seem to lead to flat out denials that things that happened happened or insinuate that the media twisted what happened.

Posted by: nerble at July 18, 2015 03:29 PM (aNcWi)

106
You're so offended by Trump that you're not only defending but bestowing honor upon John McCain, a rotten man who hates you.

Posted by: Soothsayer's Home For Imaginary Friends at July 18, 2015 03:30 PM (m66o0)

107 >>You're so offended by Trump that you're not only defending but bestowing honor upon John McCain, a rotten man who hates you.

you should read that "honest discussion" column again and stop with your own crude, dishonest strategems.

Posted by: ace at July 18, 2015 03:30 PM (bhepQ)

108 I want Trump to stay in the race and to continue to speak out.

If he says things I don't like or agree with, I can live with that.

The good he does by saying things the powers that be do not want said far outweighs the injuries.

Posted by: eman at July 18, 2015 03:30 PM (MQEz6)

109 I should've kept my clam shut.

Posted by: Trump steamer at July 18, 2015 03:31 PM (6qR/9)

110 Dying isnt so bad if we all die together, no? Not in a Jonestown way but in a SMOD way. Is there anything more sexy than a flash of light and poof! You're gone. We'll be cosmic debris - together. We will make beautiful sunsets on Mars.

Come on, we're fixin' to die! Everybody sing!

Posted by: Bruce With a Wang! at July 18, 2015 03:31 PM (iQIUe)

111 I know what Trump is, and I don't want to see him as president, but he deserves credit for speaking out about illegal immigration and the huge costs associated with it -- crime, disease, hundreds of billions of dollars in extra taxpayer costs every year, destruction of the rule of law, etc.

I believe the reason Trump's numbers are as high as they are right now is because Americans are fed up with the way other national politicians either avoid the topic entirely, or pander to hispanics and muslims while insinuating that any American who supports limiting immigration rights or securing our borders is some sort of bigot or nativist or hater.

People know what is going on, and they're tired of the lies and the insults. Obama's illegal but de facto open borders policies are seriously harming the nation, and people want that fact to be spoken -- in the open, and by somebody with a large megaphone. And Trump has one.

Posted by: TrivialPursuer at July 18, 2015 03:31 PM (kGrdk)

112
Buffoon is the best word I feel applies to Trump. A rich buffoon, yet nevertheless a buffoon.

As far as McCain, it is not incongruent to say he served honorably and give him thanks, but to now say he is going senile and more leftist everyday.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at July 18, 2015 03:32 PM (ODxAs)

113 >> Trunp is just your thing you want no one to discuss.

People can and are discussing it. I just think it's about as helpful as a glass hammer. He's running, people who support him seem to be deaf and blind to facts, and it's going to end in tears - the question is for whom, but probably all of us.

Posted by: nerble at July 18, 2015 03:33 PM (aNcWi)

114 >>>1, I'm trying to get away from that Internet Outrage thing, where everyone screams because someone said something impolitic about a Privileged Group (and on the right, at least, veterans are privileged -- you just can't mock them as a group, as you could on the left).

ace, this is why I hang out at the hq and not other places. We probably disagree about the "seriousness" of what trump said, but I really do appreciate your effort to not fall in to the OUTRAGEOUS OUTRAGE OF THE DAY!!! SERIOUS, YOU GUYS!!!! news cycle.

Because it's pissing me off beyond belief. I've had to stop reading a lot of blogs because of it. Just raises my blood pressure for no reason, and gets everyone bickering about... well, nothing.

So kudos.

Posted by: mynewhandle at July 18, 2015 03:33 PM (AkOaV)

115 ace, can you post more of what Trump said?

Posted by: eman at July 18, 2015 03:33 PM (MQEz6)

116 There is a big difference between "honorable" and heroic. I consider McCain's service to be honorable, but not heroic.

Posted by: ManWithNoParty, unperson from Free Market Jesus Paradise at July 18, 2015 03:33 PM (cygkw)

117 carol, i changed the manner of embedding and added a link.... if that doesn't work, I can't do anything more, as that's all I have myself.

Posted by: ace at July 18, 2015 03:33 PM (bhepQ)

118 Ace: dude take the weekend off, we need you later

Posted by: Cunctator at July 18, 2015 03:34 PM (VAPeJ)

119 Well, the border is overrun with illegals, your republican representatives play Kabuki theater with you daily and laugh at you behind your back, they've given Obama more power since taking over both chambers, they've basically given Iran a nuclear bomb, they are importing terrorist muslims to the united states, they've indebted us to the tune of 17-18 trillion dollars, the orange man is in Ireland promising more illegal immigration, the usurper is issuing muslim holiday greetings while not mentioning either the four marines shot or the white woman shot in broad daylight on a tourist's pier in San Francisco. And that's just the last two weeks of outrages.

Uh, so yeah, I don't give a rat's ass if the military-hating-media, uniparty, political pundits, or John "Wacka-doodles-Crazies" McCain is offended.

Uh, so yeah, I'm voting for Trump. F' the uniparty.

Posted by: Misfortune & Pestilence at July 18, 2015 03:34 PM (vHFh+)

120 So, this is a good test of the "All Trump Supporters are Retards" theory. Here we go: Do you STILL support Trump? If so, you're a retard. And please do the human race a favor and stop talking, stop posting. You're a retard.

Posted by: Strumpet at July 18, 2015 03:34 PM (7u7u7)

121 People talk about the money and gigs trump has lost. Either:

1. He is genuinely so arrogant and cocooned that he couldn't see
that coming, in which case he is unfit for the Presidency, or--

2. He envisions an even bigger payout down the line, in which case we shouldb't trust him with the Presidency.

OR

3. He has made his money and no longer cares about being politically correct. He has decided to say what he believes and let the chips fall where they may.

Of course he knows he is going to rub certain people the wrong way, he is calculating that enough of the silent majority that has been cowering silently will rise up to support him. I don't know if the gamble will pay off but he is certainly making hay.

The full context of the McCain remarks are not as bad as certain pundits are making it sound. He is also essentially correct in saying McCain is considered a hero mainly because he was captured. That is true. McCain might not have been much of a warrior at all but everyone politely calls him a hero because he was imprisoned. McCain has used that to his advantage much to the detriment of the party and the country.

Posted by: Chris Vaughn at July 18, 2015 03:34 PM (Bcqod)

122 eman: You look at me and see a troll. I look at you and I see a retard who's defending Trump. You wanna talk trolls? Trump is fucking Yector with ten billion dollars with which to get airtime and attention.

Look at the sorts of things Hector says when he's pretending to be conservative. It's the same things Trump says. It's just that Trump has more pull. And the media helps give him that pull, because his purpose is to hurt conservatives.

This POW thing is just the punch line. There will be more. If you don't understand it now, you will later.

Posted by: Thing From Snowy Mountain at July 18, 2015 03:34 PM (2bMA4)

123
When you compare Trump to Ross Perot
Posted by: nerble

A closer analogy would be Pat Buchanan to Bush the Elder in '92. Same media based resume, same quipity style of speaking and so on. A red meat response to a juiced in "electable" candidate. Will tend to do this sort of thing.

Now, this is a "binders full of women" moment, so those that need or want to take out Trump will us it as such. But, watching the extended clip, where he immediately pulls back much of the bile on that initial comment made in passing, much of that outrage seems somewhat overwrought.

Doesn't matter. Everyone's just going to read into the pull quote all their initial biases and have a conniption.

Racist rock, and all that.

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at July 18, 2015 03:35 PM (kdS6q)

124 I believe the reason Trump's numbers are as high as they are right now is because Americans are fed up with the way other national politicians either avoid the topic entirely....
Posted by: TrivialPursuer at July 18, 2015 03:31 PM (kGrdk)

I think you're on the right track.

I think it's because many people are realizing that ALL politicians are exactly like Trump, most just have more "polished" exteriors from years of "message sculpting" and listening to consultants.

So if we're going to have a bunch of non-ideological power hungry narcissist running, why not have at least one guy who we can all get a kick of out as he insults all of the "right people" and obnoxiously brags about his wealth and brilliance?

Or we can get the "I'm just like you!" types who are just as bad as trump, but insult us by lying and pretending to be dumb rubes just like us.

Posted by: mynewhandle at July 18, 2015 03:35 PM (AkOaV)

125 The bitter truth is that ONLY Trump is saying things that need to be said. If it's all about money more than balls, where are the balls on the other guys who have less money?

Posted by: rrpjr at July 18, 2015 03:35 PM (s/yC1)

126 I gave The Donald $10. Does that make me a supporter? In a head to head, I'd vote for any other Republican. Am I a Trump supporter?

Posted by: meekle at July 18, 2015 03:35 PM (94iKh)

127 Disagreeing with, and arguing against, something someone actually said is not gotcha gaming. Otherwise there is no political discussion at all.

I worry sometimes that we have all internalized the left's moral relativism. Arguing against something taken out of context is not the same as arguing against something as it was meant. This appears, at the moment, to be the latter. Trump said something about McCain, and then generalized it to cover far more people than McCain. (And for that matter, McCain was definitely a hero in Vietnam as far as I'm concerned.)

Posted by: Stephen Price Blair at July 18, 2015 03:35 PM (J0IP0)

128 If Trump keeps shooting his mouth off and offending people, he'll definitely win the election. Go Trump, go!!

Posted by: C Students for Trump at July 18, 2015 03:36 PM (7u7u7)

129 Welp, there goes Trump.

All we are left with are the trannies are the most courageous people on the planet candidates.
I have to admit. Watching Farve clap while Jenner proceeded to jam his fantasies down our throats was pretty amusing.

Posted by: Drider at July 18, 2015 03:36 PM (6Xbsz)

130 People can and are discussing it. I just think it's about as helpful as a glass hammer. He's running, people who support him seem to be deaf and blind to facts, and it's going to end in tears - the question is for whom, but probably all of us.
Posted by: nerble at July 18, 2015 03:33 PM (aNcWi)

It's already ended in tears. We have lost on everything I cared about. At this point it's about destroying the GOP which sold us out.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at July 18, 2015 03:37 PM (gU+Ex)

131 Politically correct speech is not honest speech. I think the hero's, and stand up people have thicker skin than to get easily offended. There are plenty of people who play the offended card as often and for the same reason Obama plays the race card.

Posted by: OTB at July 18, 2015 03:37 PM (BvSwL)

132 122 eman: You look at me and see a troll. I look at you and I see a retard who's defending Trump. You wanna talk trolls? Trump is fucking Yector with ten billion dollars with which to get airtime and attention.

Look at the sorts of things Hector says when he's pretending to be conservative. It's the same things Trump says. It's just that Trump has more pull. And the media helps give him that pull, because his purpose is to hurt conservatives.

This POW thing is just the punch line. There will be more. If you don't understand it now, you will later.
Posted by: Thing From Snowy Mountain at July 18, 2015 03:34 PM (2bMA4)

I do not support Trump.

I support the things he is saying now.

He has said things that powerful folks do not want said.

I am well familiar with Trump's faults.

Trump is not the issue.

Posted by: eman at July 18, 2015 03:37 PM (MQEz6)

133 116
There is a big difference between "honorable" and heroic. I consider McCain's service to be honorable, but not heroic.

Posted by: ManWithNoParty, unperson from Free Market Jesus Paradise

Leaving a note on a car you dinged is honorable. Flying a jet into the most heavily defended air on the planet is heroic.

Posted by: pep at July 18, 2015 03:37 PM (LAe3v)

134 Posted by: Thing From Snowy Mountain at July 18, 2015 03:34 PM (2bMA4)

Oh yeah!

Without a doubt, Trump is a huge troll. He's been at it for decades.

He might even be the "original troll"

But why is that a negative? I'm not saying to elect the guy, but why not enjoy the show while he's around?

Then we can move on and focus on the real issues, like Mitt Romneys dog, binders full of women, and Big Bird's bleak future if a republican is elected.

Posted by: mynewhandle at July 18, 2015 03:37 PM (AkOaV)

135 Knowing myself, I'll probably ultimately suck it up and get in line right behind some POS candidate around 1 year from now. Don't necessarily like that about myself, but that's my history. I'm a cheap date. Many of you are too.

Posted by: Dave S.

And really, that's where most of us are. We can all talk about how we Hate the Republicans, but voting for Hillary in protest would make me puke. Ralph Nader? The libertarian candidate, whomever he/she /it turns out to be?

This election, this vote will not make much difference, until the sewer that is our popular culture changes.

Or we ALL get on Twitter and make it a total Democracy.

Posted by: Bossy Conservative....outlaw in America at July 18, 2015 03:38 PM (+1T7c)

136 I see heroes as falling into one of two categories.

There is the comrade in arms who takes action above and beyond the call, at great personal risk or sacrifice to protect or support his fellows in the heat of battle. The personal hero.

The second type is the media-creation or government-selected 'symbol' of national pride, the ideal to be held up for the populace to adore, as a unifying totem of sorts. The public hero.

Some people fall into both groups.

(I intentionally omitted the sandwich as a third type of hero).

Posted by: Muldoon, a solid man at July 18, 2015 03:38 PM (NeFrd)

137 At what point will everyone realize that Trump is largely a product of the Democratic media, and designed to take the public attention away from all of the rest of the Republican bench?

The goal: Make sure that Republican primary voters are saying things like "who's this Walker guy?"

Posted by: TB at July 18, 2015 03:39 PM (8u/5i)

138 32 Meh. Isn't this how Brooklyn folks talk... all brash and line-crossing?

Hey, oh, hey there. You're gonna haveta blame Queens for dat guy. Leave me outta this.

Posted by: Old Timey Brooklyn at July 18, 2015 03:39 PM (ZsN9X)

139 1 Nothing could stop me from retiring and living off a rich wife's money. NOTHING.

Posted by: Bruce With a Wang! at July 18, 2015 03:39 PM (iQIUe)

140 Here we go: Do you STILL support Trump? If so, you're a retard. And please do the human race a favor and stop talking, stop posting. You're a retard.
Posted by: Strumpet at July 18, 2015 03:34 PM (7u7u7)

Oh, okay. Trump makes fun of John McCain, and now everyone who won't rush out to denounce Trump and strum him out of polite society is a "retard" who should stop talking and posting.

Got it.

Posted by: mynewhandle at July 18, 2015 03:39 PM (AkOaV)

141 Laurie David's Cervix,Racist Rock is a British Naval Term, I believe. It was long before racist was thrown around as casually as it is now.

Posted by: Carol at July 18, 2015 03:39 PM (sj3Ax)

142 I wanted to post something about this Trump story earlier but I was stuck at a four way stop sign for two hours because I was in the middle of nowhere and it took that long for someone to come up behind me and beep so that I knew it was my turn. Anyways, I agree with Trump, because I'm angry at McCain and that's really all there is to it. And another thing... zzzzzzzz. Snort. What? Who is this? zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Posted by: Trumpinator 2018 at July 18, 2015 03:40 PM (7u7u7)

143 please stop with personal attacks on Trump supporters.

a lot of people are acting like Elitist Snots and I don't have CVs in front of me to even see if they have the basic qualifications to act like Elitist Snots.

if you consider yourself an elitist, try to, um, act in an elite way.

Posted by: ace at July 18, 2015 03:40 PM (bhepQ)

144 (I intentionally omitted the sandwich as a third type of hero).
Posted by: Muldoon, a solid man at July 18, 2015 03:38 PM (NeFrd)

Yeah, i thought we were talking about big sandwiches full of Italian meat here...

Am I in the wrong thread?

Is this not the semmich thread?

//so confused

Posted by: mynewhandle at July 18, 2015 03:40 PM (AkOaV)

145 I missed the Iran thread so I will be force to note here that Iran is a pissant country with the GDP of Dallas-Fort Worth, all from a commodity that has to be shipped by tanker and exposed pipeline.

Posted by: Grump928(C) is no fun at all at July 18, 2015 03:40 PM (rwI+c)

146 I have snot. I've been blowing my nose all day.

Posted by: Bruce With a Wang! at July 18, 2015 03:41 PM (iQIUe)

147 Doesn't McCain insult us on a regular basis? Yes. Yes, he does.

And didn't he tell us that Obama was a fine fellow, and that we had nothing to fear from him? Yes. Yes he did.

Maverick deserves much worse than being insulted by Trump. Much, much worse. And surviving captivity, while admirable and indicative of a tough SOB, doesn't absolve him of the transgressions that followed.

The damage he's done pretty much negates everything else.

Posted by: tsj017 at July 18, 2015 03:41 PM (t1f6S)

148 "If so, you're a retard. And please do the human race a favor and stop talking, stop posting. You're a retard.

Posted by: Strumpet"

I resemble that remark.

Posted by: Mr. AR10 at July 18, 2015 03:41 PM (zZyu4)

149 I predict Trump gets mouthy at the debate and Rick Perry calls him out.

I'm hoping for a Vidal/Buckley moment.

an insult in Spanish from Rubio would also be awesome.

People who are whining about "milk toast candidates" apparently haven't actually noticed they can support Perry, Rand, Cruz, or Walker who aren't really "milk toast."

Don't imagine those guys are Boehner-like - they are not.

Seriously, I get the excitement of watching someone exciting like Trump, but he goes wayyyy too far.

Yes, illegal convicts should be sent back - Perry said that too, so did JEB even

But Trump now claims the Mexican government warehouses people from around the world to send to America.

Um. No. People may use the border, but the Mexican government is not warehousing them.

If you let this guy be your voice cuz you don't like illegal immigration, he will make you look STUPID.

If you just want to enjoy him for a while, I'm doing that, too.

Finally, I think Trump allows everyone else to ignore the issue of sanctuary cities when he takes it too far into fantasy land. The Left must breathe a sigh of relief.

Posted by: Harun at July 18, 2015 03:41 PM (UBBWX)

150 It's Trump being Trump: Running off at the mouth without knowing much of anything about his topic du jour. He has primitive ideas about the economy and his foreign policy understanding matches his experience in the arena. I didn't like him before and I like him even less now. Having been in the same war McCain was in, and knowing a number of people who were shot down by North Vietnamese guns and SAMs, and having watched shot, shell and SAMs coming up myself. I know that Trump is just a loudmouth spoiler.

Posted by: TOF at July 18, 2015 03:41 PM (CuTfa)

151 Trump running is destroying the strategy of Karl Rove and the GOPe. The GOPe are hard at work and folks are certainly lining up to destroy Trump and the threat his populist campaign represents to Jeb. MOST voters are NOT following shit right now. I just wish Trump would use his megaphone and the attention he is generating to keep hitting the points that the MSM and the GOPe wish weren't talked about.

Illegal immigration. Obama turning the M.E. into a flaming pit of hell. Obama's era of awesome foreign policy that has the U.S. at a new cold war status with China AND Russia! Obama issuing edicts and EO's like crazy.... like a man with no support but an agenda to push through. .... hmmm. Keep at it Trump.

Trump actually equals SMOD.

Posted by: Yip at July 18, 2015 03:42 PM (e7T6D)

152 Let's cut to the chase: how ever farfetched it may be, if your choice for President came down to Hillary or Trump, for whom would you vote?

Posted by: Ramon from Texas at July 18, 2015 03:42 PM (hRytD)

153 Nothing better than a great hero sandwich.

Posted by: Bruce With a Wang! at July 18, 2015 03:42 PM (iQIUe)

154 Some people are retards. Trump supporters are such people. They will never understand why we call them retards. Why? BECAUSE THEY'RE RETARDS.

Posted by: War Zeros at July 18, 2015 03:42 PM (7u7u7)

155
OT: In And Out Burger is a great name, I must admit.

But here in MA is liquor store called...

Liquor & More.

That's clever.

Posted by: Soothsayer's Home For Imaginary Friends at July 18, 2015 03:42 PM (m66o0)

156 "And didn't he tell us that Obama was a fine fellow, and that we had nothing to fear from him? Yes. Yes he did. "

Trump said the same thing. Trump was fine with Obama.

Trump funded Hillary.

Don't try to claim Trump is better than McCain, because you have no idea of what Trump really will do.

Posted by: Harun at July 18, 2015 03:42 PM (UBBWX)

157 Posted by: Muldoon, a solid man at July 18, 2015 03:38 PM (NeFrd)

Sort of like Bruce Jenner.

I'll take the first example.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at July 18, 2015 03:43 PM (Zu3d9)

158 I want a brutal hacking high bucks battle between Trump and Jeb that leaves both bloody and Perry or Walker as the compromise nominee.

Posted by: Grump928(C) is no fun at all at July 18, 2015 03:43 PM (rwI+c)

159 >>>4 Some people are retards. Trump supporters are such people. They will never understand why we call them retards. Why? BECAUSE THEY'RE RETARDS.

did no one read the post? Or notice that there's a commenter here with a mentally challenged family member?

Do people read anymore, or do they just like shouting online?

Posted by: ace at July 18, 2015 03:43 PM (bhepQ)

160 "If you think you need to be offended, look no further than Kerry--he provides all the reason.

Trump's comment? Not so much."

Right! The War hero Kerry just gave Iran the bomb. McCain - the war hero - gave us Obama. Even campaigned for him during his own campaign with his - you have nothing to fear comments.

Posted by: Misfortune & Pestilence at July 18, 2015 03:44 PM (vHFh+)

161 I do not support Trump.

I support the things he is saying now.
____________________

I'm with you, eman. I don't like Trump (even though I did once win over $5k on his game show Trump Card -- true story). I don't support him for president, but I do support his right to point out the idiocy and illegality and danger of Obama's open borders policies -- especially when no other Republican, or even RINO, candidate is willing to do it.

Posted by: TrivialPursuer at July 18, 2015 03:44 PM (kGrdk)

162 If you note the people in here who are saying they support Trump, most are basically saying that they forgive all his past (and undoubtedly future) mistakes and errors for "saying the things that no one else is saying."

This blanket indulgence is a huge part of why I think that his supporters cannot really be reasoned with and why I think the discussion thing is pointless. An argument can be made that the majority of people who support a political candidate are like this, and that may be true.

However, the reality is that Trump is a terrible candidate, he's saying things that are helpful to the other side, the video being an excellent example, and while I think insulting his supporters is pointless, I also think trying to argue with them rationally also falls into that category.

Just FTR, I'm let it burn, so this is basically a thought exercise. To me, people supporting Trump only vindicates my worldview.

Posted by: nerble at July 18, 2015 03:44 PM (aNcWi)

163 More proof Trump is a lib.

Posted by: Mega at July 18, 2015 03:44 PM (9Du4t)

164 Dat guy's a chooch. And a mamaluke.

Posted by: Old Timey Brooklyn at July 18, 2015 03:44 PM (ZsN9X)

165 One of the biggest reasons I left Elkton Hills was because I was surrounded by phonies.

Posted by: meekle at July 18, 2015 03:44 PM (94iKh)

166 Trumps, McVain slam ?
well, it is more of a smack down of an individual of political privilege than a group slam.
But Republican Or Dim
Both parties got a reverse Bullying coming ACE.
Tell me you do not feel like you have been recipient of pile driver type abuse by the establishment?

Posted by: Chesty where ever you are at July 18, 2015 03:45 PM (/WmRg)

167 Never said Trump was "better". But he can insult McCain as much as he wants. It's well deserved.

Posted by: tsj017 at July 18, 2015 03:46 PM (t1f6S)

168 Do people read anymore, or do they just like shouting online?

Posted by: ace at July 18, 2015 03:43 PM (bhepQ)

10 OUT OF 10 POLL RESPONDENTS PREFER SHOUTING ONLINE OVER READING, and why that's a healthy thing for our electoral system

Posted by: Vox, voxplaining the world at July 18, 2015 03:46 PM (AkOaV)

169 Wait wait wait, lotta vitriol being spewed at McCain here.

Say what you will about the man as a politician...

Say that "just because you were a POW doesn't automatically make you a hero..."

...but back in the day, when it counted, McCain was not only tortured FOR YEARS by communists, but more significantly, he was offered freedom and he REFUSED to go free unless all the men under his command in the Hanoi Hilton were also freed.

Needless to say, the Viet Cong refused, and kept him in prison and then continued to torture him for MORE YEARS.

Hero? Hell yeah he's a hero.

Could you do that - volunteer for years of torture out of sense of duty to your fellow soldiers?

Most men would kill their own mothers, would sell their souls to the devil, would betray their country, to avoid just ONE torture session.

Do I like McCain as a politician? No.

Was he a good pilot before being captured? No.

But none of that matters. When the chips were down, McCain showed true character, far beyond what Trump or any other critics could ever show.

Posted by: zombie at July 18, 2015 03:46 PM (jBuUi)

170 I smell a troll....trolls ...some times a whole herd...

Posted by: Chesty where ever you are at July 18, 2015 03:47 PM (/WmRg)

171 "Let's cut to the chase: how ever farfetched it may be, if your choice for President came down to Hillary or Trump, for whom would you vote?"

Trump. Hillary is far scarier. Trump might be fun as president.

But the real problem is Hillary, GOP X, and Trump.

When he goes 3rd party so all the constantly contrarian butt-hurt conservative types think they will send a message...that is the key vote.

Hillary appointing SCOTUS = death of Republic

If voters don't like the GOP in congress, PRIMARY THEM.

Ace's decimation idea is the best.

The other choice is to allow Hillary 4-8 years and have the GOP implode.

Not so horrible if you get a better result...can you guarantee that? no. you can't.

Posted by: Harun at July 18, 2015 03:47 PM (UBBWX)

172
Nobody here is a Trump supporter.

There are, however, many here such as myself who support Whoever Sticks Their Thumb In The Left's Eye.

I'm starving for pushback. Right now, Trump is the only doing the pushing. So, in that way, I suppose, I support Trump.

If you believe we're better off if Trump would shut up forever, tell me why.

Posted by: Soothsayer's Home For Imaginary Friends at July 18, 2015 03:47 PM (m66o0)

173 Google says that's a donkey and a foolish person.

Posted by: New Timey Brooklyn at July 18, 2015 03:47 PM (ZsN9X)

174 We have the largest, most qualified Republican field in our lifetime (ever?), including a Governor who has gone up against the Hard Core Left Machine and has won, repeatedly, and a significant minority wants to go with ... Donald Trump. I give up.

Posted by: ok ok at July 18, 2015 03:47 PM (7u7u7)

175 147 Doesn't McCain insult us on a regular basis? Yes. Yes, he does.

And didn't he tell us that Obama was a fine fellow, and that we had nothing to fear from him? Yes. Yes he did.

Posted by: tsj017 at July 18, 2015 03:41 PM (t1f6S)

------

Yes, and yet somehow Trump made him a sympathetic figure. Probably the only way possible, and he managed to do it. If he's going to be in the political arena, and be the person that represents the dissatisfied right, then I'd prefer he do it in ways that do not have everyone rushing to defend John McCain.

Posted by: Dave S. at July 18, 2015 03:47 PM (mhkbv)

176 Truth be told, I don't care about the slur against McCain. I care about the slur against other soldiers.

It's being argued, rightly, that McCain insisted on staying behind with his fellow soldiers, and that's heroic. It certainly is. But last I checked, we live in a world where one's past accomplishments and displays of heroism mean nothing if we're a political problem at the moment. McCain's more than happy to mock people who are anti-immigration as crazies, etc.

Fine. Then let him feel what it's like to be unfairly mocked.

Posted by: Crude at July 18, 2015 03:48 PM (/IrCS)

177 How about an AoShq Sing A Long?

Come on! It'll be fun!

Posted by: Bruce With a Wang! at July 18, 2015 03:49 PM (iQIUe)

178 As a veteran myself I have deep respect for what John McCain endured in the service of his country. However, that doesn't excuse all the fucktardery that comes out of John McCains mouth as a US Senator (or for that matter fellow veteran Lindsey Graham's).

Military service, and especially POW status, are important but it does not make you a demi-god in the arena of ideas -- a former POW can still be a fucking retarded jackass the same way any veteran can be and they do not deserve a pass because of their veteran or POW status.

John McCain is a septugenarian fuckwit who thinks his STATUS as a Senator/Veteran/POW gives him a free pass to open his mouth and say some mightily stupid shit because he is surrounded by yes-men and hangers-on looking for candy... so yeah he's like Trump but with a smaller net worth.

Posted by: Nevyan at July 18, 2015 03:49 PM (zxWyw)

179 Maverick deserves much worse than being insulted by Trump. Much, much worse. And surviving captivity, while admirable and indicative of a tough SOB, doesn't absolve him of the transgressions that followed.

The damage he's done pretty much negates everything else.
Posted by: tsj017

I listened (live) to McCain go nuts on the Michael Reagan radio show back in 2000, when Michael had him on the phone (and at the time, Michael had endorsed no one, but was leaning to McCain), McCain went coo-coo-bananas live on the radio. Michael ended up hanging up on him. It was that bad.
He is mentally unbalanced, and I am not saying that as an insulting metaphor to ridicule him.

Posted by: Bossy Conservative....outlaw in America at July 18, 2015 03:49 PM (+1T7c)

180 Everyone is a Hero!

Posted by: Participation Trophy at July 18, 2015 03:50 PM (Cq0oW)

181 When McCain ejected out of an A-4 over North Vietnam, he broke both arms and legs in the ejection sequence. I'm assuming that Trump expected McCain to use his Black Knight-fu on his captors but Monty Python and the the Holy Grail was made two years after McCain was released and probably wasn't included in SERE training.

Posted by: jim_h at July 18, 2015 03:51 PM (ZEZnr)

182 Let's not forget a couple of things about McCain's service.

1) He was on the flight deck in his airplane when the USS Forrestal accident started. Helped a fellow pilot, ended up pushing bombs on carts overboard with others to prevent them from being 'cooked off' -- injured in chest and thigh. Volunteered to continue duty on other carrier.

2) The whole POW thing

3) became Squadron Commander AFTER release. Led unit to its first Meritorious Unit Commendation.

....

Jesus, People - Silver Star, a couple of Legion of Merits , Purple Hearts, Distinguished Flying Cross, three Bronze Stars ...

Posted by: BumperStickerist at July 18, 2015 03:51 PM (0MJOU)

183 Is "under tall" the new substitute for "short"?

Posted by: nip at July 18, 2015 03:51 PM (//QPb)

184 "Right! The War hero Kerry just gave Iran the bomb. McCain - the war hero - gave us Obama. Even campaigned for him during his own campaign with his - you have nothing to fear comments."

--------------------------------------------------------------------
If it were possible their behavior would have some hero's spinning in their grave.

Posted by: OTB at July 18, 2015 03:51 PM (BvSwL)

185 Do people read anymore, or do they just like shouting online?

Posted by: ace at July 18, 2015 03:43 PM (bhepQ)

It's because we haven't had a flame war in....forever.

"These things gotta happen every five years or so, ten years. Helps to get rid of the bad blood. Been ten years since the last one. You know, you gotta stop them at the beginning. Like they should have stopped Hitler at Munich, they should never let him get away with that, they was just asking for trouble. "

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at July 18, 2015 03:51 PM (Zu3d9)

186 If Trump wants to attack McCain's service in DC, go for it. But attack his service in Vietnam? Seriously? And there are people here DEFENDING Trump? WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU???

Posted by: ok ok at July 18, 2015 03:51 PM (7u7u7)

187
The goats are eating:

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/goatslive

Posted by: Bruce With a Wang! at July 18, 2015 03:51 PM (iQIUe)

188 I'll admit I was hoping that "chooch" and "mamaluke" were racial slurs, so I could get Old Timey Brooklyn fired. (Shrug.)

Posted by: New Timey Brooklyn at July 18, 2015 03:52 PM (ZsN9X)

189 John McCain is a septugenarian fuckwit who thinks his STATUS as a Senator/Veteran/POW gives him a free pass to open his mouth and say some mightily stupid shit because he is surrounded by yes-men and hangers-on looking for candy... so yeah he's like Trump but with a smaller net worth.
Posted by: Nevyan at July 18, 2015 03:49 PM (zxWyw)

Exactly. Just like all trolls are Average Joe, all politicians are Donald Trump, but with less money and less physic-defying hair.

It's okay for McCain to call Trumps audience in AZ (his constituents!!!) "crazies" even though I'm sure there were wounded veterans and war heroes in the crowd, as well as Hispanics, women, and whatnot.

And that's unremarked upon in the "conservative" media. "Oh, that's just the Maverick! Hobbits, crazies and wacko birds! Oh, how silly! (cough and accurate)"

But Trump... well fuck him with a 10 foot pole!

Posted by: mynewhandle at July 18, 2015 03:52 PM (AkOaV)

190 "If you note the people in here who are saying they support Trump, most are basically saying that they forgive all his past (and undoubtedly future) mistakes and errors for "saying the things that no one else is saying."

This blanket indulgence is a huge part of why I think that his supporters cannot really be reasoned with and why I think the discussion thing is pointless. An argument can be made that the majority of people who support a political candidate are like this, and that may be true. "

THIS.

Single issue voters on keeping illegals out.

I was enjoying Trump for a while, and giving him the benefit of the doubt, but eventually he will say something that just grates you so much, you ignore him.

Then he will run 3rd party so that we can have Hillary (someone he's donated to before) and Trump will go back to TV shows, and you Trump voters will still be angry at the GOP and angry that Hillary appoints Anothony Weiner to the SCOTUS.

Posted by: Harun at July 18, 2015 03:52 PM (UBBWX)

191 There was never any doubt in my mind that The Donald would say *something* that brought the D-Train to a stop.

Everyone here I suppose detests Rosie O'Donnell. But look at how Trump went to feuding with her a few years back. When The Donald gets into a feud he can't be civil or above it all. He can be just as mean and stupid as Rosie.

Ace is right, he's an ego with legs and a YUGE mouth. He's also a (R)epublican (I)n (N)ame (O)nly.

Posted by: CozMark at July 18, 2015 03:52 PM (52QgN)

192
Jesus, People - Silver Star, a couple of Legion of Merits , Purple Hearts, Distinguished Flying Cross, three Bronze Stars ...

And today? Today he's obama's bitch.

Posted by: Soothsayer's Home For Imaginary Friends at July 18, 2015 03:52 PM (m66o0)

193 As polarized as the public is, there SHOULD be no independents to cater to. If so, they are truly the assholes of the country. Either vote DNC for a continuation of Obama's Unicorn Festival and the further few doors into the fun house of ruination, or vote for a pull back of some sort.... a stop to the leftard drift and overreach that continually polls that a greater and greater number of folks are aware of.

There is no real middle ground. It matters not one bit about binders or McCain or other bullshit gotchas.... the MSM will play their game, but it's will the DNC cheat their way to another victory. Will enough good folks just stay home. Will there be a third party race or four?

heh heh.... what if Trump runs indie..... and Bernie runs green or something.... that's rich... hahahaahhaaa

Posted by: Yip at July 18, 2015 03:52 PM (e7T6D)

194
obama's foreign policy bitch, to be fair..

Posted by: Soothsayer's Home For Imaginary Friends at July 18, 2015 03:53 PM (m66o0)

195 Unlike Senator McCain, I would have fixed up that Hanoi Hilton so it was something to be proud of.

Posted by: Donald Trump at July 18, 2015 03:53 PM (8ZskC)

196 186 If Trump wants to attack McCain's service in DC, go for it. But attack his service in Vietnam? Seriously? And there are people here DEFENDING Trump? WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU???
Posted by: ok ok at July 18, 2015 03:51 PM (7u7u7)

...He crashed a plane and got captured.

I don't think that automatically makes him a "hero" and even if it did, that was a long time ago and he's more than made up for that act of bravery or whatnot with decades of asshattery.

Posted by: mynewhandle at July 18, 2015 03:53 PM (AkOaV)

197 CharlieBrown'sDildo Thanks for the Fat Clemenza. That quote comes to my mind often.

Posted by: meekle at July 18, 2015 03:54 PM (94iKh)

198 I have a son with special needs, and the word "retard" doesn't offend me. I can't say I've ever heard anyone use the
word "retard" to describe a person with naturally-born lower
intelligence, but have heard it used plenty of times for people who have
God-given higher intelligence who choose not to use it. I have heard the word "retarded" used to describe someone of naturally lower intelligence, but not at all in a derogatory manner. The word means slow for Pete's sake. In music, a ritard or ritardando means to make slower, to decrease tempo.

If you go through life being offended at name-calling, you end up like John Boehner, a man who surrenders without a fight so nobody calls him a racist. Life's too short to have pity parties. Let them call you whatever they want, keep your eyes on the eternal reward, and move on.

Posted by: unfatmatt at July 18, 2015 03:54 PM (kyTFr)

199 sock off

Posted by: Oschisms at July 18, 2015 03:54 PM (ZsN9X)

200 then criticize McCain as Obama's bitch.

The man's service record is far more than "POW" - both before and after being a prisoner.

Posted by: BumperStickerist at July 18, 2015 03:55 PM (0MJOU)

201 I listened (live) to McCain go nuts on the Michael Reagan radio show back in 2000, when Michael had him on the phone (and at the time, Michael had endorsed no one, but was leaning to McCain), McCain went coo-coo-bananas live on the radio.
____________________

I've lived in AZ for decades and had several run-ins with McCain. He is as nasty and unpleasant a person in person as you would expect. And as an AZ voter, McCain's continuing hypocrisy and dishonesty on the border issues is absolutely intolerable.

Posted by: TrivialPursuer at July 18, 2015 03:55 PM (kGrdk)

202
fresh sweet peanut hay
bicarb with minerals
alfalfa cubes
red berry salt lick
and clean cool water!

Posted by: Bruce With a Wang! at July 18, 2015 03:55 PM (iQIUe)

203 "These things gotta happen every five years or so, ten years. Helps to get rid of the bad blood.

Your recipe for cooking steak sucks.

Posted by: pep at July 18, 2015 03:55 PM (LAe3v)

204 Posted by: Yip at July 18, 2015 03:52 PM (e7T6D)

Trump has national recognition and will draw far more votes away from the Republican nominee than Sanders will draw from the Democrat.

Sanders' support comes from the dedicated hard-left. There aren't many of them. His appeal is limited to them, and the Democrat LIVs would gravitate toward the mainstream Democrat.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at July 18, 2015 03:56 PM (Zu3d9)

205 Videos won't play, Twitter isn't loading for me on iPad or iPhone. I just noticed bathtub is dirty on outside.I'm going to clean tub go back to reading book I was reading on iPad.
Glad to see Ace on a Saturday.

Posted by: Carol at July 18, 2015 03:56 PM (sj3Ax)

206 Well, that guy Sam has balls, I suppose. What does that make him? A fig. Apply to Bruce Jenner, too?

Posted by: Eromero at July 18, 2015 03:56 PM (go5uR)

207 Posted by: pep at July 18, 2015 03:55 PM (LAe3v)

Your wife loved it last night!

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at July 18, 2015 03:56 PM (Zu3d9)

208 207
Posted by: pep at July 18, 2015 03:55 PM (LAe3v)

Your wife loved it last night!

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo

Okay, I got nothing. You win.

Posted by: pep at July 18, 2015 03:57 PM (LAe3v)

209 Posted by: unfatmatt at July 18, 2015 03:54 PM (kyTFr)

I have members of my (extended) family with learning disabilities and mental disabilities, and I will admit to cringing a little bit when I hear the word "retard" casually thrown around.

That being said, I'm not like SUPER OUTRAGED!!! about it, but it's a word I try to avoid using out of context.

Similar to "fag" or "gay" (as in, "i have to be at work early tomorrow. that's so gay!").

But YMMV

Posted by: mynewhandle at July 18, 2015 03:57 PM (AkOaV)

210 Sidenote: If Trump is so awesome, how does he not know that the Republicans are the RAWR RAWR military party?

This is on par with Hillary going out and calling Prius drivers hippies who need to learn how to grill a steak. It's, like, the freaking core constituency.

Posted by: nerble at July 18, 2015 03:58 PM (aNcWi)

211 One of the reasons why you Republicans who are tut-tutting Trump for this comment aren't registering with Trump's supporters is because you establishment Republicans have allowed the illegal immigration issue to fester for so long.

You establishment hacks have played stupid games on the immigration issue for 15+ years, now you're going to win stupid prizes. Sooner or later, *someone* (in this case, Trump) was going to stand up and start pointing out the obvious issues with the illegal alien problems in the US, just as people are now doing in Europe. Nationalist parties are making gains in Europe on the same issue, completely outside the American version of the issue.

The public's anger on this issue is white-hot, and you establishment hacks have ignored, poo-poo'ed and ridiculed the public for years on this issue. Now along comes Trump, who has the money and ego to grab the press by the lapels and hand them their heads in one-on-one interviews (another place where the GOP has been moral and intellectual cowards for decades), and now you establishment hacks wonder why he has support? And you wonder why so many people are willing to give Trump a pass on outlandish and illogical comments? People who are giving their white-hot anger an outlet aren't going to allow reason into the discussion. They want to kick *your* asses.

Pfah. You establishment hacks are fine examples of why the GOP is called "The Stupid Party."

As for McCain: I haven't trusted him since the Keating Five scandal. I think he got off way too lightly for his part in that. His presidential ambitions were some of the purest intellectual onanism, and the GOP establishment could never seem to understand that. The man is a crooked politician. Regardless of whatever he might have done in Vietnam, he's been a crooked and arrogant political hack for the last 30 years. He's not much better than John Kerry in his personal behavior - he divorced his wife to marry a rich woman so he wouldn't have to work. His resulting daughter and her public comments are a reflection of her father and his attitudes towards the public.

Posted by: PS at July 18, 2015 03:58 PM (odmOB)

212 210 Sidenote: If Trump is so awesome, how does he not know that the Republicans are the RAWR RAWR military party?

This is on par with Hillary going out and calling Prius drivers hippies who need to learn how to grill a steak. It's, like, the freaking core constituency.
Posted by: nerble at July 18, 2015 03:58 PM (aNcWi)

What do you mean "RAWR RAWR military party?"

Not sure I follow...

Posted by: mynewhandle at July 18, 2015 03:59 PM (AkOaV)

213 I do blame the GOP establishment for Trump.

This was their year to be mean to Obama, and instead they gave it up...Drew M is right.

the Democrats don't have this problem because they try to actually deliver something to their base...

The GOP decided to lose on purpose to have issues. This is repugnant.

You know the one GOP person to deliver on something?

RAND PAUL

You may not agree with what he did to the NSA, but he at least delivered.

Posted by: Harun at July 18, 2015 03:59 PM (UBBWX)

214 "People might say, 'But he can learn.' "

Trump is 69 years old. If he hasn't learned yet how to be a decent human being, he's not going to learn now.

Posted by: pst314 at July 18, 2015 03:59 PM (T4dRn)

215 balls

Like saying no thank you to the NVA torture squads early release ploy.

Posted by: DaveA at July 18, 2015 03:59 PM (DL2i+)

216 Per The Weekly Standard Trump won't rule out Third Party Run!I put that on Twitter hope it gets me off Trump ListObama Plays Basketball
WTH does that mean??

Posted by: Carol at July 18, 2015 03:59 PM (sj3Ax)

217 I rarely use the word retard, even to describe mindless Obama supporters. But, oh boy, does it apply to Trump supporters. Just look at them now defending Trump and attacking McCain because "he was shot down, he's no hero." IGNORANT.

If you aren't really a Trump supporter but think he's "shaking things up, which is good," it is time for you to get off of this crazy train. Every time Trump opens his mouth he creates new Hillary voters. If you don't see this, you aren't thinking right.

Posted by: ok ok at July 18, 2015 04:00 PM (7u7u7)

218 Let's focus on real combat veterans like John Kerry and Hillary Clinton. And Brian Williams.

Posted by: No Medals at July 18, 2015 04:00 PM (Gcu5R)

219 Wasn't McCain's father an admiral? Anyone think his service could have been embellish to please the Admiral? Wouldn't be the first time.

Posted by: OTB at July 18, 2015 04:00 PM (BvSwL)

220 FOR FUCK'S SAKE

One time, People:

BEFORE McCain was shot down, while continuing a bombing run - which was effective - AFTER being hit - for which he received a citation McCain was a decorated Naval Aviator.

AFTER coming home, McCain pushed himself, became a squadron leader and his unit earned a Meritorious Unit Commendation - its first.

Then there's the whole POW thing.
---------

Posted by: BumperStickerist at July 18, 2015 04:00 PM (0MJOU)

221 ...and I don't have CVs in front of me to even see if they have the basic qualifications to act like Elitist Snots.

I have a degree from Cornell.

Posted by: Keith Olbermann at July 18, 2015 04:01 PM (J0IP0)

222 "I have members of my (extended) family with learning
disabilities and mental disabilities, and I will admit to cringing a
little bit when I hear the word "retard" casually thrown around.

That being said, I'm not like SUPER OUTRAGED!!! about it, but it's a word I try to avoid using out of context.

...But YMMV

Posted by: mynewhandle"

This is exactly similar to what I was trying to say.

Posted by: Mr. AR10 at July 18, 2015 04:01 PM (zZyu4)

223 You know the one GOP person to deliver on something?

RAND PAUL

You may not agree with what he did to the NSA, but he at least delivered.
Posted by: Harun at July 18, 2015 03:59 PM (UBBWX)

Yeah. But Rand will go nowhere, he's almost as despised by the GOPe and the "talking heads" and the "brainiac elites" on our side as Trump is.

But I'm with him 100% on NSA spying and drone strikes and his tax plan and everything domestic.

Foreign policy wise? Eh, Anything is an improvement over Obama.

Posted by: mynewhandle at July 18, 2015 04:02 PM (AkOaV)

224 but at the moment he is a useful idiot for our side.

Or is he an embarrassment Moby deliberately? Making noise is one thing, moving the other candidates? Gaining more than he'd driving away for him or anyone else.

Posted by: DaveA at July 18, 2015 04:02 PM (DL2i+)

225 "One of the reasons why you Republicans who are tut-tutting Trump for this comment aren't registering with Trump's supporters is because you establishment Republicans have allowed the illegal immigration issue to fester for so long."

Yes, we are all establishment hacks here. LUL.

Romney was pretty hard on illegal immigration.

HE LOST.

Posted by: Harun at July 18, 2015 04:02 PM (UBBWX)

226 I have a degree from Cornell.

Posted by: Keith Olbermann

Big whoop. I have many degrees.

Posted by: Anders Celsius at July 18, 2015 04:02 PM (LAe3v)

227 Posted by: nerble at July 18, 2015 03:58 PM (aNcWi)

Hillary! needs to be POTUS. For her, there is nothing left if she can't be POTUS.

The Donald merely wants to be POTUS. He can go back to being the Biggest Swinging Dick In The Board Room.

Posted by: CozMark at July 18, 2015 04:02 PM (52QgN)

228 219 Wasn't McCain's father an admiral? Anyone think his service could have been embellish to please the Admiral? Wouldn't be the first time.
Posted by: OTB at July 18, 2015 04:00 PM (BvSwL)

Father and Grandfather IIRC.

In fact, there were long rumors that McCain received special treatment as a POW because his dad was (I believe) head of the Pacific Theater for the Navy at the time.

Posted by: mynewhandle at July 18, 2015 04:03 PM (AkOaV)

229 Also, McCain was born in Panama.

Just a little tidbit of historical knowledge there.

Posted by: mynewhandle at July 18, 2015 04:03 PM (AkOaV)

230 @mynewhandle

I will vote for Rand.

and his foreign policy is less worrying since Obama already has given everything away.

In 18 months being a little isolationist may be a good thing. For example, I don't want America to be the balancer of power between Shia and Sunni Islam.

Posted by: Harun at July 18, 2015 04:04 PM (UBBWX)

231 CBD.... I think Trump, IF Trump makes it to the ballot stage... would draw from the idiots that voted for Obama because they thought voting for the 1st -something Presnit was akin to voting on their cell-phone for contestants on a TV show.

Trump will only draw from those most influenced by populism. Bernie will likely not run third party or end up like Nader.... but he could... he's committed....

Sadly, I don't have much faith that over half of the country gives a shit to vote. They're cynical or busy living large. The far left has an agenda and likes it mighty fine like that. The MSM will do all in it's power to undermine conservatives and the GOPe will feed them. At some point, those of us that give a shit withdraw from the fight and get small...... or secede. ... emotionally.... physically..

Posted by: Yip at July 18, 2015 04:04 PM (e7T6D)

232 Yes, we are all establishment hacks here. LUL.

Romney was pretty hard on illegal immigration.

HE LOST.
Posted by: Harun at July 18, 2015 04:02 PM (UBBWX)

It was those damned binders full of women, I'll tell ya!

Posted by: MittBot2012, now 10% less severely conservative at July 18, 2015 04:04 PM (AkOaV)

233 The 'Judgement Factor' would not have precluded Trump from making comments about McCain, it merely would have couched the criticism in unemotional terms that did not impugn McCain's service.

Still...., Trump vs. Obama...?
In that case, the devil that you know MAY in fact be worse than the one that you do not know.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at July 18, 2015 04:04 PM (9mTYi)

234 We can still use the word 'oxymoron' can't we? For something that is self-contradictory.

Maybe we should coin a new word, 'oxyretard' for someone who seems to have normal intelligence but says or does things that are stupid.

Trump for President- that's an oxyretard!

Posted by: Muldoon, a solid man at July 18, 2015 04:04 PM (NeFrd)

235 "You establishment hacks..."

Posted by: PS at July 18, 2015 03:58 PM (odmOB)

I have been called many things, but this is the first time that I have been called that!

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at July 18, 2015 04:05 PM (Zu3d9)

236 In 18 months being a little isolationist may be a good thing. For example, I don't want America to be the balancer of power between Shia and Sunni Islam.

Posted by: Harun at July 18, 2015 04:04 PM (UBBWX)

Yeah. Obama set the stage for the next president to either have to bomb the shit out of everyone to get our credibility back, or get the fuck out of the way before the bombs start flying.

I kind of prefer the "get the fuck out of the way" approach myself.

Posted by: mynewhandle at July 18, 2015 04:05 PM (AkOaV)

237 Let me sum up the Left:

Binders full of women--> OUTRAGE!!!

Blenders full of fetal organs--> Not seeing a problem.

Posted by: Muldoon, a solid man at July 18, 2015 04:06 PM (NeFrd)

238 I'm for Christie. We haven't had a lard ass like that in the White House since William Howard Taft.

Posted by: No Medals at July 18, 2015 04:06 PM (Gcu5R)

239 "Wasn't McCain's father an admiral? Anyone think his service could have been embellish to please the Admiral? Wouldn't be the first time."

It's not like there weren't a bunch of witnesses in the Hanoi Hilton.

I'm coming late to the party, but:

1. Whatever you think of McCain, flying fighter jets over Vietnam should more courage than anything Trump has ever done. Yeah, McCain got captured. He also put himself into a position where he could get captured and killed. Trump hasn't.

2. If anything having an admiral as a father and grandfather should have given McCain the strings to avoid that kind of danger if he wanted to.

3. It's not just that McCain wasn't captured, it's how he acted in prison, which made him a war hero.

Again, Trump has not been in that position and has not put himself into a situation where he ever could be in that position, so on this one he should STFU.

Posted by: AD at July 18, 2015 04:06 PM (yBmlR)

240 Trump will pull all from GOP leaners and maybe some anti-trade Democrats.

The press won't push that though - they won't get Donald to talk about banning imports, which would attract lefties.

They will use Trump to paint the GOP as racist and anti-immigrant. (and why yes, they won't distinguish between illegal and legal immigration.)

Trump supporters are just bitter voters angry at Boehner...me too, but he's not the solution.

Perry, Rand, or Walker. Heck, even Carly!

Posted by: Harun at July 18, 2015 04:07 PM (UBBWX)

241 169
The argument is that Trump insulted an entire class of special privileged people, POWs, with what he said. For that to be true, then each and every single POW must be considered a hero. My statement stands.
Just because you were a POW does not make you a hero. If you want to take that as a statement against McCain, that is your internal voice creating the words to that effect. I attack McCain for more recent events. Maybe he was once a hero for his service, but since that time he has changed to something far more sinister and destructive to our American Way of life.
McCain is far from a hero based on his life accomplishments. Benedict Arnold should be considered an American Hero otherwise. He was one of our commanders and took serious injury in battles by being in the front ranks during the Revolutionary War.
If anyone imagines that I do this because I support Trump, well, I support Trump about as much as I supported Romney. Screaming that if the Base picks him as the nominee, I will not vote for him and may vote Democrat as a protest.

Posted by: astonerii at July 18, 2015 04:07 PM (o/DjS)

242 As for McCain: I haven't trusted him since the Keating Five scandal. I think he got off way too lightly for his part in that. His presidential ambitions were some of the purest intellectual onanism, and the GOP establishment could never seem to understand that. The man is a crooked politician. Regardless of whatever he might have done in Vietnam, he's been a crooked and arrogant political hack for the last 30 years. He's not much better than John Kerry in his personal behavior - he divorced his wife to marry a rich woman so he wouldn't have to work. His resulting daughter and her public comments are a reflection of her father and his attitudes towards the public.
Posted by: PS

I don't dispute that McCain is a lousy politician in many ways. But that's not what Trump said, nor what we're arguing about. If Trump had said, "McCain is a corrupt fuckwit with dementia," no one would be arguing with him. But instead of doing that. Trump specifically disparaged McCain's wartime heroism. And in so doing stuck his foot in his mouth. There was no need to do that -- there are plenty of legitimate topics on which to criticize McCain.

Imagine if someone said, "That creepy perverted lunatic Bruce Jenner dressing up like a woman disgusts me: In my opinion, Jenner never did win a gold medal at the Olympics!"

Casting doubt on a historical fact totally undermines whatever contemporary criticism you may have.

Yes, being a hero doesn't give McCain carte blanche to be forgiven for all political sins, and wining a medal doesn't give Jenner moral authority to rub his lunacy in our faces, but facts are facts, and can't be erased from history just because we don't like people.

Posted by: zombie at July 18, 2015 04:07 PM (jBuUi)

243 Rand Paul didn't collect in campaign funding what he expected this year, he thought he'd get his father's following but hasn't.
He's got those crazy Luap Nor genes to overcome.

Posted by: Carol at July 18, 2015 04:08 PM (sj3Ax)

244 I think 104 -- Posted by: Dave S. at July 18, 2015 03:29 PM (mhkbv) -- and 111 -- Posted by: TrivialPursuer at July 18, 2015 03:31 PM (kGrdk) are both very good points.

The GOPe has decided to pander to a minority and leave a huge void in political speech that The Donald is filling. If someone else were to fill it, The Donald would be just another blowhard.

Posted by: cthulhu at July 18, 2015 04:08 PM (EzgxV)

245 Posted by: Yip at July 18, 2015 04:04 PM (e7T6D)

I understand your point...I just disagree.

But I doubt it will be an issue, because I simply don't see Trump doing the heavy lifting necessary for a successful campaign for the nomination.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at July 18, 2015 04:08 PM (Zu3d9)

246 And as long as we're talking about parents pulling strings, Trump being the son of a wealthy real estate mogul could have always helped just a little bit in him getting into Wharton.

Posted by: AD at July 18, 2015 04:08 PM (yBmlR)

247 It's just Donald being a fucking retard.

Posted by: Biggus Dikkus at July 18, 2015 04:08 PM (LPHFE)

248 Look, I'm in this solely for the entertainment. I wouldn't vote for any of these asshats.

Posted by: No Medals at July 18, 2015 04:08 PM (Gcu5R)

249 Posted by: AD at July 18, 2015 04:06 PM (yBmlR)

Well, lets just say that McCains version of events in Hanoi are... well, shall we say "highly contested" ?

link dump:
http://tinyurl.com/qczwnc6

Posted by: mynewhandle at July 18, 2015 04:09 PM (AkOaV)

250 "McCain is a corrupt fuckwit with dementia,"

****

I have a family member who is a corrupt fuckwit. I am incensed at this usage.

Posted by: Muldoon, a solid man at July 18, 2015 04:09 PM (NeFrd)

251 >> One of the reasons why you Republicans who are tut-tutting Trump for this comment aren't registering with Trump's supporters is because you establishment Republicans have allowed the illegal immigration issue to fester for so long.

I am let it burn. I don't have a particular fondness for any candidates, and if you think Trump is going to do anything but follow what he thinks is good for Trump, you're going to have a very ugly surprise waiting for you. Right now, it sounds like you're clinging to Trump saying stuff about illegals as a good reason to support him. My guess is that the more awful things he says, the more you'll dig in your support for him because you've expended so much mental energy towards doing so.

I can't honestly think of a single R candidate that I would vote for. I think they all say good things at times, but their actions tend to belie their words. Rubio is a rising star, but as a former Florida resident who saw him flail wildly after lying about his immigration stance, I'm not voting for him. Period. I'm not going to support that shit. Lesser evil my ass.

It's easy for you to cast EVERYONE into the establishment pool, just as many establishment people will cast people they disagree with into the lower-caste pool. Both are wrong, and both are a way of sweeping away ugly little facts that show someone their are chinks in their argument.

Sure, my facts may not be 100% correct, but you're LESSER for [insert reason here]. Stop interrupting my onanism with your reality and opposing worldview.

Posted by: nerble at July 18, 2015 04:10 PM (aNcWi)

252 "Right! The War hero Kerry just gave Iran the bomb. McCain - the war hero - gave us Obama. Even campaigned for him during his own campaign with his - you have nothing to fear comments."

Trump's given money to both Kerry and McCain in the past, in 2006 and 2008 respectively. If you think you're going to counter their left-of-center public positions by supporting Trump, well, Trump's been funding those all this time.

Posted by: Thing From Snowy Mountain at July 18, 2015 04:10 PM (2bMA4)

253
64 As much as I cannot stand McCain. The guy is a hero
for getting shot down on a mission and then refusing to go home early
until his fellow POW's were released.

He was treated much more badly after that too, so they say.

Posted by: Drider

I don't know all the details of this but I've always had a hard time believing it. I imagine the Norks grabbing him out of his cell, saying "you here too long, you go now," and Mccain refusing, with them showing him the door and kicking his ass out...with proper arrangements for his pickup made, of course.
I just don't see MCCain having any say-so in the state of his captivity or freedom.

Posted by: Norman at July 18, 2015 04:10 PM (CYS6Q)

254 Trump on Twitter is already using this point to out how McCain has done nothing for the vets.

VA Scandal
Illegals get free healthcare but our vets get the VA.

Go Trump!

Posted by: Misfortune & Pestilence at July 18, 2015 04:10 PM (vHFh+)

255 239 It's not just that McCain wasn't captured, it's how he acted in prison, which made him a war hero.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
That is true enough.
A hero's reputation endures though doesn't it. McCain's hasn't. Also all the argument about it here shows that status is in doubt. We usually don't argue about if a true hero is a hero.

Posted by: OTB at July 18, 2015 04:10 PM (BvSwL)

256 246 And as long as we're talking about parents pulling strings, Trump being the son of a wealthy real estate mogul could have always helped just a little bit in him getting into Wharton.
Posted by: AD at July 18, 2015 04:08 PM (yBmlR)

Could have, but "wealthy" is a bit of an exaggeration.

I want to say his dad had a net worth of 3 or 4 million when trump got in to the business.

So, definitely not a pauper -- but that's a far cry from having Kennedy money.

Posted by: mynewhandle at July 18, 2015 04:11 PM (AkOaV)

257 I'm what's for beakfast, America.

Posted by: Supertrump at July 18, 2015 04:11 PM (6qR/9)

258 McCain is a brave man.

Posted by: El Chapo at July 18, 2015 04:11 PM (Gcu5R)

259 This just hit Reddit. Comments are remarkably sane.

Posted by: Harun at July 18, 2015 04:11 PM (UBBWX)

260 It doesn't hurt the country to point out that McCain's ~~Trump's~~ a stupid fucking asshole.

FTFY

Posted by: some random meathead at July 18, 2015 04:11 PM (p7ckx)

261 what's trump's claim to heroism?

He's kept the entire human race safe from that hair ferret for 20 years.

Posted by: DaveA at July 18, 2015 04:11 PM (DL2i+)

262 250 "McCain is a corrupt fuckwit with dementia,"

****

I have a family member who is a corrupt fuckwit. I am incensed at this usage.
Posted by: Muldoon, a solid man at July 18, 2015 04:09 PM (NeFrd)

______________________________

My Uncle is a corrupt fuckwit with dementia too, and I'm ok with the McCain comparison.

Posted by: CozMark at July 18, 2015 04:12 PM (52QgN)

263 "Politics ain't beanbag"

Posted by: some random meathead at July 18, 2015 04:12 PM (p7ckx)

264 Posted by: Norman at July 18, 2015 04:10 PM (CYS6Q)

Some other POWs from the era said McCain made propaganda tapes denouncing the US and calling various US officials "war criminals" and that he got special treatment.

Don't know if it's true, I think the actual facts of his stay have been "lost to history" if you will.

Posted by: mynewhandle at July 18, 2015 04:12 PM (AkOaV)

265 I like businessmen who don't regularly declare bankruptcy while sitting on billions of dollars.

Posted by: lincolntf at July 18, 2015 04:13 PM (tvQwu)

266 "I don't know all the details of this but I've always had a hard time believing it. I imagine the Norks grabbing him"

You think McCain fought against North Korea.

Posted by: Harun at July 18, 2015 04:13 PM (UBBWX)

267 MyNewHandle,Thank you for McCain link.

Posted by: Carol at July 18, 2015 04:13 PM (sj3Ax)

268 In just looking at how the campaigns are being run, I still think Rand Paul has the best run campaign. I'll read here about people wanting a candidate to support something. Then Paul will come out for it and the comment is always "yeah, he supported that, but he did something I didn't like and the apple doesn't fall far from the tree."

I think, with the exception of Perry, what we have now is the field for 2016. We need to start figuring out which flawed candidate we can support. So far, I've seen missteps from all of them.

Posted by: notsothoreau at July 18, 2015 04:13 PM (5HBd1)

269 "Illegals get free healthcare but our vets get the VA.

Go Trump! "

Obama won't sign a voucher system replacement, but they did allow some vouchers and its working better than the old system.

But you believe Trump who believes ib single payer healthcare will fix the VA?

LOL.

Posted by: Harun at July 18, 2015 04:14 PM (UBBWX)

270 You think McCain fought against North Korea.
Posted by: Harun at July 18, 2015 04:13 PM (UBBWX)

I think we all know he meant north vietnam, c'mon now...

Posted by: mynewhandle at July 18, 2015 04:14 PM (AkOaV)

271 "I have a family member who is a corrupt fuckwit. I am incensed at this usage.

Posted by: Muldoon, a solid man"

I lol'd.

Posted by: Mr. AR10 at July 18, 2015 04:15 PM (zZyu4)

272
And as long as we're talking about parents pulling strings, Trump being the son of a wealthy real estate mogul could have always helped just a little bit in him getting into Wharton.
Posted by: AD

Know it took being the son of a Representative and grandson of a Senator to get my sorry stupid ass into UT Austin.

And even then, we had to throw in a few sets of steaks knives for the admissions committee to seal the deal.

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at July 18, 2015 04:15 PM (kdS6q)

273 In fact, there were long rumors that McCain received special treatment as a POW because his dad was (I believe) head of the Pacific Theater for the Navy at the time.

The bad kind of special treatment.

Posted by: Grump928(C) is no fun at all at July 18, 2015 04:15 PM (rwI+c)

274 268 In just looking at how the campaigns are being run, I still think Rand Paul has the best run campaign. I'll read here about people wanting a candidate to support something. Then Paul will come out for it and the comment is always "yeah, he supported that, but he did something I didn't like and the apple doesn't fall far from the tree."

Posted by: notsothoreau at July 18, 2015 04:13 PM (5HBd1)

Hey, Luap Dnar people... you're not helping.

Trust me.

Posted by: mynewhandle at July 18, 2015 04:15 PM (AkOaV)

275 "A hero's reputation endures though doesn't it. McCain's hasn't. Also all the argument about it here shows that status is in doubt. We usually don't argue about if a true hero is a hero."

Sorry, but that's just ridiculous.

A very rich troll ditches the internet and goes in front of a camera to say a stupid thing, so the stupid thing might have some merit?

Are we going to start saying the same thing about all the bullshit Harry Reid has spouted?

This was never in doubt by anybody because it's simply a ridiculous statement coming from anybody who knows anything about McCain's war record other than the fact he was captured.

If you want to attack McCain, call him an out-of-touch asshole who doesn't care about the base. This is an unforced error. It's assholish unforced error and it's simply a wrong unforced error.

Posted by: AD at July 18, 2015 04:16 PM (yBmlR)

276 Does a transplanted heart count as a Purple Heart?

Posted by: Dick Cheney at July 18, 2015 04:16 PM (Gcu5R)

277 Norv doesn't sound as bad as Nork.

Posted by: Harun at July 18, 2015 04:16 PM (UBBWX)

278 273 In fact, there were long rumors that McCain received special treatment as a POW because his dad was (I believe) head of the Pacific Theater for the Navy at the time.

The bad kind of special treatment.
Posted by: Grump928(C) is no fun at all at July 18, 2015 04:15 PM (rwI+c)

Yeah, when a guy comes back skinny with bones broken, I think we can quit that talk about special treatment.

Posted by: AD at July 18, 2015 04:17 PM (yBmlR)

279 Surviving the despicable treatment that the North Vietnamese heaped upon him is a different issue. He was one tough SOB to be able to handle that.

=====

with his life, not his mind.

part of his bomb everything schtick is his inchoate rage at being broken and brainwashed. which he did admit to.

part of my disgust is everyone saying he's a hero and hey let's have a broken and brainwashed guy be our president

fuck that

Posted by: Participation Trophy at July 18, 2015 04:17 PM (Cq0oW)

280 I switched Internet providers, so I'm playing What's My Hash. I hope it's a good one . . .

Posted by: filbert at July 18, 2015 04:18 PM (JvPqF)

281 "This comment by Trump makes no difference to me. Still going to vote for him against the uniparty. "

Then frankly you and everyone like you is a fucking idiot. Thanks in advance for GOP nominee Jeb Bush.

Posted by: Paul at July 18, 2015 04:18 PM (n+82F)

282 Trump boldly changed the media BS to focus on immigration. Good.

Trump is a pig.
Trump is a bully.

IIRC: Trump called Bush Evil, says he wants single payer health care, says he wants to raise taxes to confiscatory levels, is in favor of gun bans.

Trump is up to something specifically for Trump, I hope it is only publicity to grow his real estate empire.

Posted by: Ralph at July 18, 2015 04:18 PM (9KUj4)

283 Some other POWs from the era said McCain made propaganda tapes denouncing the US and calling various US officials "war criminals" and that he got special treatment.

Don't know if it's true, I think the actual facts of his stay have been "lost to history" if you will.

Posted by: mynewhandle

Most POWs held by the Viet Cong (and earlier by the North Koreans) were indeed forced to make propaganda tapes. This isn't particularly unexpected or noteworthy. McCain is simply one of hundreds (or thousands) compelled at gunpoint (or threat of soul-wrenching agony) to make anti-US propaganda tapes for his captors. Par for the course over there. Doesn't mean he believed it. Same thing happens nowadays when westerners are captured by jihadists. Do we blame the beheading victims for making pro-Islam propaganda (which most were forced to do)?

Posted by: zombie at July 18, 2015 04:18 PM (jBuUi)

284
you Republicans
Posted by: PS

He don't know us very well, do he?

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at July 18, 2015 04:18 PM (kdS6q)

285 "Politics ain't beanbag"

Posted by: some random meathead at July 18, 2015 04:12 PM (p7ckx)

No, but it IS cornholing.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at July 18, 2015 04:18 PM (Zu3d9)

286 So first, this was a dumb thing to say by Trump.

But isn't there a problem with the way we use hero?

I see teachers called heroes all the time. W...T...F.

Working at a run of the mill job doesn't make one a hero even if, in say the inner city, it is rather less cushy.

And further, being a member of the military by itself doesn't make you a hero either. Remember Max Cleland?

Being a member of the military gives you a much greater likelihood of being put in the position where you can become a hero - like an Audy Murphy or Alvin York.

McCain's record prior to his capture was honorable, though not particularly heroic. He obviously made his name in refusing to allow his release ahead of others which was certainly heroic...but since then of course he has been rather less then a hero - he has become vain, spiteful, and a key leader of the cohort that is trying to destroy his country.

This makes his unending self promotion as a hero rather complicated.

I do wonder if there is anyway that a public figure, say someone far more serious then Trump, could actually discuss this in our modern political culture.

Posted by: 18-1 at July 18, 2015 04:18 PM (5LOno)

287 Jimmy Carter - Naval Officer
John Kerry - Naval Office and Vietnam Vet
Bob Kerry - Navy Seal

Senator Jim Webb (D-VA) -- rifle platoon and company commander with the
Fifth Marine Regiment in the An Hoa Basin west of Danang; was awarded
the Navy Cross, the Silver Star Medal, two Bronze Star Medals, and two
Purple Hearts

Representative Jack Murtha (D-PA) - distinguished 37-year
career in the U.S. Marine Corps, Bronze Star and two Purple Hearts,
retired from the Marine Corps Reserve as a colonel in 1990.

Posted by: some random meathead at July 18, 2015 04:19 PM (p7ckx)

288 The bad kind of special treatment.
Posted by: Grump928(C)

like I said, I don't know what really happened. Here's a quote from linky dump above:

"Jack McLamb is a highly respected name in law enforcement circles. After 9 years of clandestine operations in Cambodia and unmentionable areas, he returned home to Phoenix where he became one of the most decorated police officers on record. Twice McLamb was named Officer of the Year. He went on to become an FBI hostage negotiator.
This man has stated that every one of the many former POWs he has talked with consider McCain a traitor. States McLamb, "He was never tortured... The Vietnamese Communists called him the Songbird, that's his code name, Songbird McCain, because he just came into the camp singing and telling them everything they wanted to know." McLamb further
quotes former POWs as saying McCain starred in 32 propaganda videos in which he denounced his country and comrades."

True? lies? Made up by liberals in '08?

I don't know.

Posted by: mynewhandle at July 18, 2015 04:19 PM (AkOaV)

289 You think McCain fought against North Korea.
Posted by: Harun at July 18, 2015 04:13 PM (UBBWX)

Oops, my bad. The NORVS, I meant. Please don't shame me.

Posted by: Norman at July 18, 2015 04:19 PM (CYS6Q)

290 Let's assume McCain is not a "hero" but you still should respect him for flying combat missions and being held in the Hanoi Hilton.

Its not like he defected or something.

p.s. Hogan's Heroes....did McCain do any less than those guys...and they were called Heroes

Posted by: Harun at July 18, 2015 04:19 PM (UBBWX)

291 Posted by: some random meathead at July 18, 2015 04:19 PM (p7ckx)

And lets not forget "hero" Jeremiah Wright (of "god damn america!" fame) who served in the Marines.

Or the "Rent is Too Damn High" guy, who I believe was Army infantry in 'nam.

Posted by: mynewhandle at July 18, 2015 04:20 PM (AkOaV)

292 Is Caitlyn Jenner a hero or heroine? Or something else....

Posted by: Confused at July 18, 2015 04:21 PM (Gcu5R)

293 I've said repeatedly just sit back and enjoy the free entertainment. Trump will flame out on his own.

Posted by: Blano at July 18, 2015 04:21 PM (aeRWb)

294 I'm not banging the drum for Trump, but he has a good habit of saying things that make people uncomfortable, and I wish to encourage that.

He's right. McCain is not a war hero. As Senator, he has done and continues to do tremendous damage to this country.

He has coasted on his captivity for far too long, and it's time he was called on it.

As far as I am concerned, he was turned by his Communist captors, and is a true Manchurian Candidate. He said, "You have nothing to fear from an Obama presidency." Would a real anti-Communist have said that? When anybody who could fog a mirror could see who and what Obama was?

Fuck McCain, and fuck his "service".

Posted by: rickl at July 18, 2015 04:21 PM (sdi6R)

295 everyone saying he's a hero and hey let's have a broken and brainwashed guy be our president

We've already got that.

Posted by: HR trinken trinken trinken at July 18, 2015 04:21 PM (rHXGG)

296 p.s. Hogan's Heroes....did McCain do any less than those guys...and they were called Heroes
Posted by: Harun at July 18, 2015 04:19 PM (UBBWX)

They were heroes because of all of their behind the scenes hilarious tom foolery that was constantly hurting the Nazi war machine and helping the allies.

I especially loved when Hogan impersonated German officers and called himself "Colonel Hoganhoff" which is a great cover.

Posted by: mynewhandle at July 18, 2015 04:21 PM (AkOaV)

297 Trump is going to beat his dick in front of reporters, and continue to step on it, until he gets bored/humiliated.

Posted by: lincolntf at July 18, 2015 04:22 PM (tvQwu)

298 Yeah , Max Cleland.

Another one.

Posted by: some random meathead at July 18, 2015 04:22 PM (p7ckx)

299 Nork, Norv...NORM??????

coincidence?

Are you from Northern Montana and a communist enemy?

I do say, no matter what, Trump is entertaining.

and with presidential elections now being reality TV shows, maybe he will force the other candidates to up their game.

I am still predicting Rick Perry calls him out for a celebrity boxing match.

Posted by: Harun at July 18, 2015 04:22 PM (UBBWX)

300 I want to say his dad had a net worth of 3 or 4 million when trump got in to the business.

So, definitely not a pauper -- but that's a far cry from having Kennedy money.
Posted by: mynewhandle at July 18, 2015 04:11 PM (AkOaV)

No idea what the exact amount was, but according to Wikipedia, his father was worth $250-300 million

His father "embarked on a career as an entrepreneur through real estate development, building, and operating affordable rental housing via large apartment complexes in New York City, including more than 27,000 low-income multifamily apartments and row houses in the neighborhoods of Coney Island, Bensonhurst, Sheepshead Bay, Flatbush, and Brighton Beach in Brooklyn and Flushing and Jamaica Estates in Queens."

His father would have been ~60 when Trump applied to Wharton.

So, I find that hard to believe.

Posted by: AD at July 18, 2015 04:22 PM (yBmlR)

301 The last time most of you spent an uncomfortable five and a half years, you called it high school.

Posted by: Adjoran at July 18, 2015 04:23 PM (QIQ6j)

302 like Elitist Snots.

Flonase really works.

Posted by: DaveA at July 18, 2015 04:23 PM (DL2i+)

303 Hogan's Heroes:

Are we sure keeping Col. Klink and Sgt. Schulz off the front-line really hurt the Germans?

Posted by: Harun at July 18, 2015 04:23 PM (UBBWX)

304 "IIRC: Trump called Bush Evil, says he wants single payer health care, says he wants to raise taxes to confiscatory levels, is in favor of gun bans."

Oh please, this has already been debunked on other conservative sites. This blog is not set up for listing links and debating. It's more set up for quick comments so I won't bother trying to give more information.

But I will say, that raising taxes on the wealthy - Chamber of Commerce traitors - is appealing as Ace posted back a few months ago during one of his 'damn them all to hell' rants. So I'd be good with the uniparty being taxed.

Posted by: Misfortune & Pestilence at July 18, 2015 04:24 PM (vHFh+)

305 Trump's a business hero because he got rich. I like business heroes who didn't go bankrupt on the way to getting rich.

Posted by: George Tirebiter at July 18, 2015 04:24 PM (/zyrl)

306 McCain is not a war hero. As Senator, he has done and continues to do tremendous damage to this country.

He has coasted on his captivity for far too long, and it's time he was called on it.

As far as I am concerned, he was turned by his Communist captors, and is a true Manchurian Candidate. He said, "You have nothing to fear from an Obama presidency." Would a real anti-Communist have said that? When anybody who could fog a mirror could see who and what Obama was?

I've actually enjoyed some of Trump's ragging, but this is just a ridiculous statement and you know it.

Read what the people in the Hanoi Hilton said about McCain. Did the Vietnamese turn them too?

Posted by: AD at July 18, 2015 04:24 PM (yBmlR)

307 Klink! You are an idiot!

Posted by: General Bulkhaulter at July 18, 2015 04:24 PM (e7T6D)

308 A bunch of my conservative friends at work are pitching Trump on a daily basis around the lunch room table. I keep telling them not to fall for the same cult of personality that the Left fell for with Obama. I'm not getting through.

Posted by: Eisenhorn at July 18, 2015 04:25 PM (J9FkY)

309 "Oh please, this has already been debunked on other conservative sites. This blog is not set up for listing links and debating. It's more set up for quick comments so I won't bother trying to give more information. "

OK sure.

Now explain his donations.

He's also against free trade.

Posted by: Harun at July 18, 2015 04:26 PM (UBBWX)

310 A LOT of hard line Communists were war heroes.

Posted by: some random meathead at July 18, 2015 04:26 PM (p7ckx)

311 So, I find that hard to believe.
Posted by: AD at July 18, 2015 04:22 PM (yBmlR)

You might be right, but I remember watching a documentary on Trump Sr. and his little money laundering investigation when he was bailing out his son's casino back in the day, and Sr. said he was only worth 3 or 4 million when Donald joined his business, and that he credited Donald with expanding his business to an empire and blah blah blah.

Could be all self serving bullshit, I dont know.

I do know his dad set up shop in Jamaica Queens, and it was Donald who broke in to Manhattan (which is obviously where the big money is)

Posted by: mynewhandle at July 18, 2015 04:26 PM (AkOaV)

312 You are a great blogger with, I believe, a first-rate mind, but... You're internalizing the slave master. Free speech is free or it isn't speech. "Collateral damage" which "hurts people's feelings" is not your trouble when you speak freely. Especially in this day and age, when "hurtful speech" is being used to squeeze what people exactly like yourself will be permitted or permit themselves to say. In a world where Major Garret is reviled for asking one single serious question, I recommend being racier and less PC, not more.

Posted by: herb borkland at July 18, 2015 04:27 PM (AZ4sn)

313 McCain once kissed a chicken. He's a hero to me.

Posted by: Chicken Lips at July 18, 2015 04:27 PM (Gcu5R)

314 Heh..

Posted by: Major Hoshtelltier at July 18, 2015 04:27 PM (e7T6D)

315 Read what the people in the Hanoi Hilton said about McCain. Did the Vietnamese turn them too?
Posted by: AD at July 18, 2015 04:24 PM (yBmlR)

Well, from what I have read, others in the Hanoi Hilton said McCain was isolated from them, they don't think he was tortured, and they do think he was turned.

But, again, none of us know what happened there, and I doubt there are many living people who could (or would) back up either version of events.

Posted by: mynewhandle at July 18, 2015 04:27 PM (AkOaV)

316 When McCain dumped his bird in the Hawaii bay he would have been grounded, to say the least, if his daddy was not an admiral.

McCain, when he was running for congress, toured all his father-in-law's distributorships and told the workers if they did not vote for him he would be their ass-whole boss.

McCain was a POW, so were many others. He has milked it long enough.

Trump is a pig and a bully. God save us from anyone who really thinks he should be president.

Posted by: Ralph at July 18, 2015 04:28 PM (9KUj4)

317 241 169
The argument is that Trump insulted an entire class of special privileged people, POWs, with what he said. For that to be true, then each and every single POW must be considered a hero. My statement stands.
=====

This has nothing to do with who's a "hero" and who's not.

Trump said he prefers people who weren't captured, that being ALL the POWs. He shit on ALL the POWs. He shit on Bud Day. He shit on Jim Stockdale. As far as I'm concerned, he shit all over himself too. What a disgrace.

BTW, you can say they're not heroes for getting captured, and you're welcome to your opinion, but in my book guys who volunteered to repeatedly fly into downtown Hanoi, the most heavily defended airpsace on earth, ARE heroes, at least compared to guy who took five deferments. And this is all unrelated to McCain's upfuckery as a senator.

Posted by: stace at July 18, 2015 04:28 PM (CoX6k)

318 Wow. I just watched the little video. Teh SJW's have won if this slightly impolitic soundbite raises any hackles here.

Posted by: t-bird at July 18, 2015 04:29 PM (FcR7P)

319 We can't save the country until we get past the critical question of whether John McCain is or is not a hero. Thank you, Donald Trump, for raising this issue that nobody else dared to bring up.

Posted by: Dave S. at July 18, 2015 04:29 PM (mhkbv)

320 Are we sure keeping Col. Klink and Sgt. Schulz off the front-line really hurt the Germans?

Posted by: Harun at July 18, 2015 04:23 PM (UBBWX)

Well, they were under constant threat of being sent to the Eastern Front.

And Hogan had to keep them in Stalag 13 because he had to rely on their stupidity to pull his plans off.

Think about it, if they had real guards there, someone might have noticed that the tree stump was fake and led back in to the camp!

Posted by: mynewhandle at July 18, 2015 04:29 PM (AkOaV)

321 5 years being beaten and tortured, meh, he's no Caitlyn Jenner.

Posted by: lincolntf at July 18, 2015 04:30 PM (tvQwu)

322 Trump is a bombast and is selling what a large number of voters are buying.

It's a strategy, not a belief system.

Trying to equate anything a politician says during a campaign into his/her innermost thoughts is a waste of time.

Posted by: some random meathead at July 18, 2015 04:30 PM (p7ckx)

323 Posted by: stace at July 18, 2015 04:28 PM (CoX6k)

Don't you think the POWs would have preferred to not be captured, too?

Why is everyone reading in to this so much?

Posted by: mynewhandle at July 18, 2015 04:30 PM (AkOaV)

324 306
He said, "You have nothing to fear from an Obama presidency." Would a real anti-Communist have said that? When anybody who could fog a mirror could see who and what Obama was?

I've actually enjoyed some of Trump's ragging, but this is just a ridiculous statement and you know it.

Posted by: AD at July 18, 2015 04:24 PM (yBmlR)

So what was McCain's excuse for saying it?

Posted by: rickl at July 18, 2015 04:31 PM (sdi6R)

325 "Now explain his donations."

He's a business man in NYC. The heart of the democrat sewer. They control the game there and if you want to play the game you pay. Just like Chitcago. I don't hold it against him.

You really don't get it, do you? That's why you will never understand his supporters.

I bet you didn't understand the tea party either.

You must be one of those National Review, Chamber of Commerce, or NeoCon types.

Posted by: Misfortune & Pestilence at July 18, 2015 04:31 PM (vHFh+)

326 "Well, from what I have read, others in the Hanoi Hilton said McCain was isolated from them, they don't think he was tortured, and they do think he was turned."

According to the guy who had a cell directly across from McCain (forget the name), he would be taken occasionally for interrogation, come back beaten up, flash a thumbs up sign, and go back into his cell.

Posted by: AD at July 18, 2015 04:31 PM (yBmlR)

327 "We just had one Know-Nothing Know-It-All Princeling as President; I'm
not sure I'd like to see a different variation of the breed."

The only sense I can make of this is you are actively seeking someone who will compromise. Well, hell, Ace, that's how the GOP got us to this brink, to start with. No, I want most of what this regime has accomplished extirpated root and branch. The man or woman who does that must be as sure of themselves and their beliefs in the Constitution as Obama is in Cloward, Piven and Alinski.

Posted by: herb borkland at July 18, 2015 04:31 PM (AZ4sn)

328 Yaayyyyyy, I'm in the protected class!!!

Posted by: Corky the Retard at July 18, 2015 04:31 PM (c0AOK)

329 You can pack a lot into four letters.

Posted by: Avid speller at July 18, 2015 04:32 PM (Gcu5R)

330 Free speech is free or it isn't speech. "Collateral damage" which "hurts people's feelings" is not your trouble when you speak freely.

This is nonsense on stilts. When you aim to persuade, you better damn sure care what your audience will think about your remarks.

If someone just want to vent rather than persuade, they shouldn't be surprised when people feel free to call them an asshole.

Posted by: Grump928(C) is no fun at all at July 18, 2015 04:33 PM (rwI+c)

331 How do I know Trump is a liberal? Because he's bold . Everyone on the Left is bold . But no one on the Left is courageous. Unfortunately a lot of people confuse being bold with being courageous .

Posted by: Cruzinator at July 18, 2015 04:33 PM (4SgJh)

332 I have to admit I've always been troubled by McCain being accorded "hero" status just for being a POW. If you're captured you lost. You, or someone on your side fucked up. If he escaped like Dieter Dengler and got back in the fight that would be one thing. Americans are supposed to like winners. That's why we don't like sports you can tie in like soccer. I think its a troubling message for our society where we are in effect lionizing the losers and ignoring those who've actually won.

Posted by: Iblis at July 18, 2015 04:33 PM (nTgIR)

333 According to the guy who had a cell directly across from McCain (forget the name), he would be taken occasionally for interrogation, come back beaten up, flash a thumbs up sign, and go back into his cell.
Posted by: AD at July 18, 2015 04:31 PM (yBmlR)

and that could very well be the case.

I'm just saying that questioning someones "hero" status (especially 40 something years after the fact) should not be such a MAJOR SNAFU!!! and wouldnt be if someone other than trump had done it.

For example, I promise you I can find stuff from '08 where the outrageously outraged liberals took pot shots at McCains "hero' status. Yet, today they're as outraged as anyone.

Posted by: mynewhandle at July 18, 2015 04:33 PM (AkOaV)

334 "He said, "You have nothing to fear from an Obama presidency." Would a real anti-Communist have said that? When anybody who could fog a mirror could see who and what Obama was?"

Because a guy being an asshole and squish on some big issues who's simply not as threatened by the Democrats in D.C. as he should be = turned by the Vietnamese into a Manchurian candidate?

Posted by: AD at July 18, 2015 04:34 PM (yBmlR)

335 I don't call that balls. Balls -- courage

-
This is sexist and misogynistic. Why don't you use cvnt as a symbol for courage?

Posted by: The Great White Snark at July 18, 2015 04:34 PM (G6+ou)

336 "Trump said he prefers people who weren't captured, that being ALL the POWs. He shit on ALL the POWs. He shit on Bud Day. He shit on Jim Stockdale. As far as I'm concerned, he shit all over himself too. What a disgrace. "

Baloney. This is just a hammer you want to use for your candidate.

We all know what he meant.

Posted by: Misfortune & Pestilence at July 18, 2015 04:35 PM (vHFh+)

337 there were long rumors that McCain received special treatment as a POW

If by special you mean permanently crippled.

Posted by: DaveA at July 18, 2015 04:36 PM (DL2i+)

338 nood, nuts, and ace is still around?

Posted by: mynewhandle at July 18, 2015 04:36 PM (AkOaV)

339 I'm just saying that questioning someones "hero" status (especially 40 something years after the fact) should not be such a MAJOR SNAFU!!! and wouldnt be if someone other than trump had done it.

For example, I promise you I can find stuff from '08 where the outrageously outraged liberals took pot shots at McCains "hero' status. Yet, today they're as outraged as anyone.

That is the Obama exception--even stronger than the regular Democrat exception when it comes to gaff standards, especially in '08. It applies to no other people person, particularly on the right.

Posted by: AD at July 18, 2015 04:36 PM (yBmlR)

340 When the subject of Juan McInsane comes up, best to instead talk about the guy's past record of repeatedly saying to voters, "I get it, build the dang fence," and then doing precisely nothing regarding said fence.

Posted by: Brain Slug Planet at July 18, 2015 04:36 PM (Gvtxy)

341 "I bet you didn't understand the tea party either.

You must be one of those National Review, Chamber of Commerce, or NeoCon types."

Oh, yes, you have me pegged.

Posted by: Harun at July 18, 2015 04:37 PM (UBBWX)

342 POW's are history' s losers? How much time have you spent on missions behind enemy lines? Eh, Mr. Trump?

Posted by: lincolntf at July 18, 2015 04:37 PM (tvQwu)

343 McCain calls people whack jobs or whacko birds. And Trump calls him retarded. Score tie at negative one each.

That said , I don't think MCCain's service or time as a POW is fair game. There's enough to criticize without going there.

Posted by: Cruzinator at July 18, 2015 04:38 PM (4SgJh)

344 Come on, he was ragging on McCain. He wasn't issuing a scientific paper stating that all POW's and Disabled Veterans suck.

Posted by: t-bird at July 18, 2015 04:38 PM (FcR7P)

345 "We all know what he meant."

*****

That may be the funniest thing I have ever read on this site.

Posted by: Muldoon, a solid man at July 18, 2015 04:38 PM (NeFrd)

346 McCain's service ended on his EAOS date. Since that time his buddies have included Biden, Kennedy, and Hillary.

Trump is an asshole for bringing it up. I don't think the Donald himself would disagree with that statement.

Posted by: some random meathead at July 18, 2015 04:38 PM (p7ckx)

347 If by special you mean permanently crippled.
Posted by: DaveA at July 18, 2015 04:36 PM (DL2i+)

that was from failing to tuck his legs and arms in before he bailed from his plane.

I'm sure it was incredibly painful.

Posted by: mynewhandle at July 18, 2015 04:38 PM (AkOaV)

348 Trump still wins

We are talking about him!

Posted by: Casual Indifference at July 18, 2015 04:38 PM (kf36l)

349 Trump still wins

We are talking about him!

Yeah, but with disgust.

Posted by: Grump928(C) is no fun at all at July 18, 2015 04:39 PM (rwI+c)

350 das nood

Posted by: Major Hoshtelltier at July 18, 2015 04:39 PM (e7T6D)

351 "He's also against free trade."

Uh, no he's not. We don't have free trade now with the bad deals we've been sold out for like NAFTA.

Try again.

Posted by: Misfortune & Pestilence at July 18, 2015 04:39 PM (vHFh+)

352 Nork, Norv...NORM??????
coincidence?
Are you from Northern Montana and a communist enemy?

Posted by: Harun at July 18, 2015 04:22 PM (UBBWX)

Do you mean "am I a communist" or "am I an enemy of communism?" Your typing style confuses me. Please stop your unwarranted cruel attack over one lousy misspent letter.
*runs crying from the room*

Posted by: Norman at July 18, 2015 04:40 PM (CYS6Q)

353 Well, from what I have read, others in the Hanoi Hilton said McCain was isolated from them, they don't think he was tortured, and they do think he was turned.

But, again, none of us know what happened there, and I doubt there are many living people who could (or would) back up either version of events.
Posted by: mynewhandle at July 18, 2015 04:27 PM (AkOaV)

That's a bunch of horsehockey, no offense. My husband knew Bud Day, and you can read his book. He roomed with McCain in Hanoi. They were both completely disabled by their ejection injuries and had to be cared for by other POWs. McCain was the worst injured prisoner to survive.

You really should read up on that time a bit. Of the hundreds of POWS, all but a small handful broke at one time or another. McCain was one of the vast majority who did, and it was considered acceptable by that time, because virtually no one could endure it.

As others have mentioned, McCain was offered early release because his dad was Cincpac, and other prisoners said he should take it because he was so badly injured, but he didn't.

Just please take a tip--this is not the way to go if you want to criticize McCain. He's a POS, but spreading myths about or mocking his service just makes people want to defend him.

Posted by: stace at July 18, 2015 04:41 PM (CoX6k)

354 He prefers the ones who weren't' captured, like his golfing buddies while he was getting deferments. "Great par save, Chas, you're my hero!".

Posted by: lincolntf at July 18, 2015 04:41 PM (tvQwu)

355 I keep telling them not to fall for the same cult of personality that the Left fell for with Obama. I'm not getting through.
Posted by: Eisenhorn at July 18, 2015 04:25 PM (J9FkY)
---
But the left got their guy elected. Trump is the only one saying the right things about the most pressing existential issue facing America.

Posted by: Trumplestiltskin at July 18, 2015 04:41 PM (6qR/9)

356 About Trump learning. He is capable of it. He has had many ups, but he has also had personal and professional failures. He had to reassess and change and self correct. If it was important enough to him, he did. Let's hope this "run" and what he feels for America is important enough for him to be more thoughtful in his bombasts.

Personally what he said about McCain -- poorly articulated.

Posted by: gracepc at July 18, 2015 04:41 PM (DMQhB)

357 Posted by: Iblis at July 18, 2015 04:33 PM (nTgIR)

You're not a hero for becoming a POW. You become a hero by how you conduct yourself as a POW. What most of those men did as POWs in Vietnam is some of the most heroic actions I can think of.

Posted by: Cruzinator at July 18, 2015 04:42 PM (4SgJh)

358 I see some people here like Trump because he won't compromise and he fights.

I get it.

But you need to keep in mind that the GOP holds the house. I hope we can keep the Senate, too.

Then you really don't need to compromise with Obama anymore. The whole problem is Obama, and establishment GOP in Congress sucking up to him.

But without Obama, and instead name a candidate, they will have to suck up to that guy.

Your worst fear is Hillary. The GOP in congress with suck up to her and compromise.

But I don't mind if you like Trump in the primary. I just worry about 3rd party run.

Posted by: Harun at July 18, 2015 04:42 PM (UBBWX)

359 334 "He said, "You have nothing to fear from an Obama presidency." Would a real anti-Communist have said that? When anybody who could fog a mirror could see who and what Obama was?"

Because a guy being an asshole and squish on some big issues who's simply not as threatened by the Democrats in D.C. as he should be = turned by the Vietnamese into a Manchurian candidate?

Posted by: AD at July 18, 2015 04:34 PM (yBmlR)

He all but threw the election, for crying out loud. I've never seen anything like that in my life.

I'm nobody special, and Obama was ringing alarm bells all over the place for me.

If McCain "wasn't threatened", then he's either dumb as a rock or is in cahoots with the Communists. Either way, he's got no damn business in the government.

Posted by: rickl at July 18, 2015 04:42 PM (sdi6R)

360 "Yeah, but with disgust."

This is a nothing - burger.

Don't worry. Next week Obama and the Obamicans will have done something so egregious and traitorous and Trump will point it out and have been proven correct again.

Posted by: Misfortune & Pestilence at July 18, 2015 04:43 PM (vHFh+)

361 John McCain was an incompetent pilot who got men killed.

John McCain was an incompetent pilot who got his ass shot down in enemy territory.

John McCain was a corrupt Senator who should have been brought down in the SandL scandal.

John McCain ran one of the worst Presidential campaigns in modern history one in which he didn't want to win and actively set out to destroy his running mate.

John McCain wants to overrun my country with third world peasants from socialist shitholes.

Hero, not a hero, I don't care.

I DON'T GIVE A RATS ASS ABOUT JOHN MCCAIN!

Posted by: Kreplach at July 18, 2015 04:43 PM (WVvzl)

362 Relax, the process is still early. You may think Trump is hurting our chances, he isn't. His accidentally grabbing of the immigration third rail woke a sleeping giant. Let it build.

We don't need Trump to keep moving forward, but we need the message. Let's hope someone picks it up soon (and means it) then Trump can fall by the wayside.

Immigration is the most important issue of this election and of America's future.

Posted by: Phil at July 18, 2015 04:44 PM (DjpfO)

363 The Vietnamese should've kept McCain.

Posted by: Johnny at July 18, 2015 04:44 PM (WvGsS)

364 I don't even like roller coasters. So just getting into a jet plane and flying over flak and SAMs is enough for me to not question being a POW after ejection with two broken arms.

Posted by: Harun at July 18, 2015 04:45 PM (UBBWX)

365 Posted by: Iblis at July 18, 2015 04:33 PM (nTgIR)

Getting shot down in combat makes you a loser? Since when?

Posted by: stace at July 18, 2015 04:45 PM (CoX6k)

366 332
I am against the POW = hero idea myself. But to argue that POW status itself disqualifies you from being a hero is as stupid as the idea that being a POW in and of itself makes you a hero. No risk, no reward. People who risk tremendously and succeed in causing the enemy significant damage and in the process die or are captured are heroes for those actions. We have a whole history of such men and women in this nation.

For me to see McCain as a Hero, he would have to show evidence of going beyond the call of duty and causing significant damage to the enemy or assisting significantly Americans or Allies in danger.

But like Benedict Arnold before him, to retain the status of Hero, you have to remain true to, in the case of myself, American ideals. Otherwise, you lose the status of hero. McCain has not been on the side of American ideals for quite some time.

Posted by: astonerii at July 18, 2015 04:45 PM (o/DjS)

367 Donald trump is Ross Perot, with the integrity of Morton Downey Jr.

Posted by: fretless at July 18, 2015 04:45 PM (TtMyK)

368 "As much as I cannot stand McCain. The guy is a hero for getting shot down on a mission and then refusing to go home early until his fellow POW's were released.
He was treated much more badly after that too, so they say.
Posted by: Drider at July 18, 2015 03:11 PM (6Xbsz)"

He WAS a hero. Apparently he subsequently concluded he's earned enough brownie points from that affair to spend them on being a traitorous POS for the rest of his life.

Posted by: Johnny at July 18, 2015 04:46 PM (WvGsS)

369 He all but threw the election, for crying out loud. I've never seen anything like that in my life.

Remember when he suspended his campaign to "fix the economy?"

Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at July 18, 2015 04:46 PM (W5DcG)

370 So if Trump is finished (which I don't believe he is) where does that leave us? Do you really think precious Walker, Perry or Jindal stand a chance? They don't.

The race now is between Jeb and Trump. If you aren't for Trump then you are by default for Jeb, because that's who it's going to be. And if you are for Jeb you are by default for Hilary because no way is Jeb going to win the general.

I'm for Trump not just because I happen to like him and think his alpha male approach can be useful in dealing with the evil in the world, but because realistically he is the only chance we have. It's Trump or Hilary period. And I will walk over broken glass barefoot to vote against both her and Jeb.

Posted by: Galadriel at July 18, 2015 04:46 PM (TkOOR)

371 Ann Coulter says that the Democrats won in 2008 and 2012 ONLY because, essentially, there is no wall on the southern border. Period.
Trump syas he will build the best wall on the southern border. The best wall EVER.
How about this Ace--let's let the uncouth asshole Trump save THIS(USA) country ....Then we will worry about the POS McCain's honor.?

Posted by: Lower Class person whose opinions need to be guided at July 18, 2015 04:47 PM (7GI9v)

372 "Getting shot down in combat makes you a loser? Since when?
Posted by: stace at July 18, 2015 04:45 PM (CoX6k)"

That's pretty much the textbook definition of a loser. You know, when your job is to fly a plane and shoot other people but you can't do that anymore because someone shot YOU out of the sky.

Posted by: Johnny at July 18, 2015 04:47 PM (WvGsS)

373 I would prefer that someone as rich as Trump just run issue ads all the time. During television shows that the LIV are likely to watch. 15 and 30 second spots. Our opponents convict themselves so many times on video but the State Media puts a blackout on what they said before as soon as the party line changes. Someone should point this out. Not just during the election cycle but constantly.

Posted by: Grump928(C) is no fun at all at July 18, 2015 04:47 PM (rwI+c)

374 "But you need to keep in mind that the GOP holds the house. I hope we can keep the Senate, too.

Then you really don't need to compromise with Obama anymore. The whole problem is Obama, and establishment GOP in Congress sucking up to him. "

Spare me your concern. I don't care what happens to the republicans. They are the uniparty.

I hope each Uniparty traitorous co-hort is primaried and voted out.

Starting with Boehner and McConnell.

Posted by: Misfortune & Pestilence at July 18, 2015 04:48 PM (vHFh+)

375 "McCain was a POW, so were many others. He has milked it long enough."

-------------------------------------------------------------------

True enough. He has been a Senator for a long time. He married money (which is fine). He should have some other bragging points by now then being a POW.

Posted by: OTB at July 18, 2015 04:48 PM (BvSwL)

376 ALL because he shit on mccain???

3rd party then?

This train has no breaks.

Posted by: Casual Indifference at July 18, 2015 04:48 PM (kf36l)

377 Trump's man-smirk rivals Jim Messina's for sheer creepiness.

Posted by: Garrett at July 18, 2015 04:50 PM (aCKr2)

378 3rd party then?

I wish. I'm afraid this party has to crash first.

Posted by: Grump928(C) is no fun at all at July 18, 2015 04:50 PM (rwI+c)

379
@361

Right On!

Posted by: Misfortune & Pestilence at July 18, 2015 04:50 PM (vHFh+)

380 I think heroism is ultimately personal and shouldn't be commodified or converted for any public purpose. Good to award heroism in war, but the award or the heroic act itself is the end not the means to another end. It doesn't qualify or entitle someone to anything else. If you're a hero, you know it, and that's your reward.

McCain is a bad senator and, I think a man with a demented sense of zeal, i.e., a man who became demented somewhere along the line. McCain-Feingold was grotesque. That a "war-hero" would be involved in that corruption of our Constitution is both terrible and revealing.

Posted by: rrpjr at July 18, 2015 04:51 PM (s/yC1)

381 John McCain was an incompetent pilot who got men killed.

======

Please don't make stuff up.

I don't like either Trump or McCain, but I also hate myths and I like facts.

Posted by: stace at July 18, 2015 04:51 PM (CoX6k)

382 Voting for McCain (or excusing his behavior) just because he was a POW is like voting for Obama (or excusing his behavior) just because he is black.

We are according groups with protected status to say and do stupid shit without consequence.

McCain has (and continues to) say stupid shit all the time. So does his fellow veteran Lindsey Graham. But apparently we are to give him a pass because POW/Veteran!

According to the Ace Outrage Meter I'm supposed to be in a huff because Trump uses a microagression against a guy who rides his POW/Veteran and Senator status to say and do stupid shit all the time?

If someone says something outlandish and they just happen to have the Medal of Honor am I supposed to shut my fucking yap and nod my head in agreement? That would apparently be the Ace Interpretation of How Our Country Works.

McCain is a disgrace as a politician -- however honorable his military service was, one thing does not forgive the other.

Posted by: Nevyan at July 18, 2015 04:51 PM (zxWyw)

383 Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at July 18, 2015 04:46 PM (W5DcG)

I still don't get the criticism for suspending his campaign and going back to Washington to participate in legislation to address the economic problems.

Posted by: Cruzinator at July 18, 2015 04:51 PM (B7Uun)

384 this is not the way to go if you want to criticize McCain. He's a POS, but spreading myths about or mocking his service just makes people want to defend him.

Posted by: stace

This
+
I stood in line 2 hours in MD to vote for McCain (to die and he still hasn't done it).

Posted by: DaveA at July 18, 2015 04:52 PM (DL2i+)

385 "The race now is between Jeb and Trump. If you aren't for Trump then you are by default for Jeb, because that's who it's going to be. And if you are for Jeb you are by default for Hilary because no way is Jeb going to win the general."

Remember 2012?

nobodys "default"

Posted by: Harun at July 18, 2015 04:53 PM (UBBWX)

386 Posted by: Nevyan at July 18, 2015 04:51 PM (zxWyw)

You're expected not to give statements that diminish the MOH and service in your criticism.

Posted by: Cruzinator at July 18, 2015 04:53 PM (B7Uun)

387 I still don't get the criticism for suspending his campaign and going back to Washington to participate in legislation to address the economic problems.

It would have made sense if he had then voted *against* the legislation and told the voters why. Instead he just was an undistinguished one of 100. He may have believed it was necessary economically, but it was stupid politically.

Posted by: Grump928(C) is no fun at all at July 18, 2015 04:54 PM (rwI+c)

388 Also, if you think "alpha male" approach = Trump...well, that's hilarious.

Perry seems pretty alpha male, too.

Posted by: Harun at July 18, 2015 04:54 PM (UBBWX)

389 Regardless of the fact that McCain is a lousy Senator, what Trump said about McCain (and thus POWs in general) is despicable. Just as when the left (including no less than Gen. Wesley Clark) and all the MSM saying pretty much the same thing about McCain (and thus POWs in general) was despicable.
However, the left and the MSM getting outraged about Trump saying now what they said then is hypocritical.
So -- overall, I'm more inclined to get worked up over the hypocrisy, although I don't think I'll get too worked up over that either.

Posted by: Dancing Queen at July 18, 2015 04:55 PM (nJvB1)

390 Perry seems pretty alpha male, too.

Those Marie Harf glasses just scream alpha male.

Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at July 18, 2015 04:55 PM (W5DcG)

391 That's pretty much the textbook definition of a loser. You know, when your job is to fly a plane and shoot other people but you can't do that anymore because someone shot YOU out of the sky.
Posted by: Johnny at July 18, 2015 04:47 PM (WvGsS)

Or when you're sent to a heavily defended area, like Germany in WW2 or Hanoi, in which it's known that a certain percentage are going to be shot down no matter how skilled they are.

You just shit all over the thousands who got shot down in WW2, Korea, Vietnam and elsewhere.

Posted by: stace at July 18, 2015 04:55 PM (CoX6k)

392 383
I still don't get the criticism for suspending his campaign and going back to Washington to participate in legislation to address the economic problems.

Posted by: Cruzinator at July 18, 2015 04:51 PM (B7Uun)

He voted for TARP! That did not "address the economic problems", it made them WORSE!

Posted by: rickl at July 18, 2015 04:55 PM (sdi6R)

393 And yet, McCain refused to run one damn ad against Obama pointing that he attended an un-American, Marxist Church. Plus, Fein-Gold McCain, the gang of 12 horseshit. McCain was a brave soldier. He just is and has been a Democrat in Republican sheepskin as a politician.

"182 Let's not forget a couple of things about McCain's service.

1) He was on the flight deck in his airplane when the USS Forrestal accident started. Helped a fellow pilot, ended up pushing bombs on carts overboard with others to prevent them from being 'cooked off' -- injured in chest and thigh. Volunteered to continue duty on other carrier.

2) The whole POW thing

3) became Squadron Commander AFTER release. Led unit to its first Meritorious Unit Commendation.

....

Jesus, People - Silver Star, a couple of Legion of Merits , Purple Hearts, Distinguished Flying Cross, three Bronze Stars ... "

Posted by: Grumpyguy at July 18, 2015 04:56 PM (6OScs)

394 You know, when your job is to fly a plane and shoot other people

His job was to bomb highly contested ground targets.

Posted by: Grump928(C) is no fun at all at July 18, 2015 04:56 PM (rwI+c)

395 I still don't get the criticism for suspending his campaign and going back to Washington to participate in legislation to address the economic problems.

**********************************************
The MEDIA made it a "problem" on par with "binders full of women."

Posted by: Dancing Queen at July 18, 2015 04:57 PM (nJvB1)

396 "Those Marie Harf glasses just scream alpha male."

But Trump's hair and bad taste all signals of a man who's a real man's man.

LOL.

You probably want Trump to do some Putin shirtless shots so you have spank material.

Posted by: Harun at July 18, 2015 04:58 PM (UBBWX)

397 Posted by: Grump928(C) is no fun at all at July 18, 2015 04:54 PM (rwI+c)

He did try to make similar points but once again the mob took over and the only thing that was discussed or reported was how it was stupid to 'suspend' his campaign and how smart it was for the guy who didn't give two shits about the country and hardly voted , continued to campaign.

Posted by: Cruzinator at July 18, 2015 04:58 PM (B7Uun)

398 How about we watch the whole statement
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7k1ajHAeXMU

Posted by: Old Guy at July 18, 2015 04:58 PM (oXkj8)

399
Trump is a stalking horse for Jeb. Now that he is getting a little
attention Trump has to ratchet up the stupid so people can start exiting
the Trump train and go to nice safe Jeb.

* * *

Yep. Perot redux.

Posted by: Doomed at July 18, 2015 04:59 PM (bGLSw)

400 McCain being a bad politician does not detract from his POW "hero" status.

He's also not the first guy to come to DC and get brainwashed. Let's see Ted Cruz in 20 years.

Posted by: Harun at July 18, 2015 04:59 PM (UBBWX)

401 Posted by: Nevyan at July 18, 2015 04:51 PM (zxWyw)

Not one person here, unless I missed it, has said that McCain should get a pass for his behavior now or as a senator. No one is saying that.

Posted by: stace at July 18, 2015 05:00 PM (CoX6k)

402 Posted by: rickl at July 18, 2015 04:55 PM (sdi6R)

TARP did prevent an economic disaster and it's been paid back.

Posted by: Cruzinator at July 18, 2015 05:00 PM (B7Uun)

403
Those Marie Harf glasses just scream alpha male.

*******************************************

If you think glasses are definitive of alpha male status then you have no idea what an alpha male is.

Posted by: Dancing Queen at July 18, 2015 05:00 PM (nJvB1)

404 He did try to make similar points but once again the mob took over and the only thing that was discussed or reported was how it was stupid to 'suspend' his campaign and how smart it was for the guy who didn't give two shits about the country and hardly voted , continued to campaign.

He diminished himself. He went from being one of two to one of 536. And then voted for business as usual with the majority, again making himself undistinguished. It was an own goal politically, though I grant him the courtesy to assume he though it was the right thing to do for the country.

Posted by: Grump928(C) is no fun at all at July 18, 2015 05:00 PM (rwI+c)

405 399
Trump is a stalking horse for Jeb. Now that he is getting a little
attention Trump has to ratchet up the stupid so people can start exiting
the Trump train and go to nice safe Jeb.

Posted by: Doomed at July 18, 2015 04:59 PM (bGLSw)

Actually, I think Jeb is a stalking horse for Rubio.

Posted by: rickl at July 18, 2015 05:00 PM (sdi6R)

406 Trump is a stalking horse for Jeb. Now that he is getting a little
attention Trump has to ratchet up the stupid so people can start exiting
the Trump train and go to nice safe Jeb.

* * *

Yep. Perot redux.
----

Umm, you guys do know that Bill Clinton won, right?

Trump is more likely to be a stalking horse for Hillary than Jeb.

Posted by: Harun at July 18, 2015 05:01 PM (UBBWX)

407 "According to the Ace Outrage Meter I'm supposed to be in a huff because Trump uses a microagression against a guy who rides his POW/Veteran and Senator status to say and do stupid shit all the time?"

Right. Some here have the vapors and need their smelling salts.

Don't worry, Monday, Obama will release hardened criminals into your new mandatory neighborhood Section 8 housing complex and you will all forget about this. That's his latest "Batman Joker" destructive move according to the newspapers.

Posted by: Misfortune & Pestilence at July 18, 2015 05:01 PM (vHFh+)

408 Even if you grant the merits of the TARP, his vote wasn't needed to pass it.

Posted by: Grump928(C) is no fun at all at July 18, 2015 05:01 PM (rwI+c)

409 383 The problem was that when he showed up at the meetings to fix the financial problems, he violated Sonny Corleone's instruction to Clemenza. And his campaign collapsed.

Posted by: George Tirebiter at July 18, 2015 05:01 PM (/zyrl)

410 Doesn't matter which face of the establishment he's stalking for. He's stalking for the establishment - be it (D) or (R), it makes no difference.

Posted by: Doomed at July 18, 2015 05:02 PM (bGLSw)

411 "Trump is more likely to be a stalking horse for Hillary than Jeb."

Trump is nobodies stalking horse. You need to get some better talking points. Yours are kind of worn out, tired, and lame.

Posted by: Misfortune & Pestilence at July 18, 2015 05:03 PM (vHFh+)

412 I don't see anybody calling for McCain's head or saying his political career over even though he said something far worse by calling his own voters "crazies." But I get it, people have been salivating for Trump to say something that they can point to and say, "See, he's done!" It's just ridiculous. Let Trump be Trump and be glad he's on our side!

Posted by: Galadriel at July 18, 2015 05:03 PM (TkOOR)

413 I don't see anybody calling for McCain's head or saying his political career over even though he said something far worse by calling his own voters "crazies."

Welcome, stranger to these parts.

Posted by: Grump928(C) is no fun at all at July 18, 2015 05:04 PM (rwI+c)

414 A parent's job is to raise their child to adulthood. Parents whose kids die are huge losers, just like McCain. Right, Johnny?

Posted by: lincolntf at July 18, 2015 05:04 PM (tvQwu)

415 See, I'm leaning more and more to the Drew M view of the GOP, but I don't see how its gets me to the next step of "Trump is the solution!"

GOP establishment is bad
Vote Trump!
Profit!

Trump is saying a lot of stuff.

Do you think Boehner, Squish, will just roll over and obey Trump?

LOL. The establishment has been able to use the bureaucracy for decades.

Trump will end up yelling at foreign leaders and that's it.

Posted by: Harun at July 18, 2015 05:04 PM (UBBWX)

416 402
TARP did prevent an economic disaster and it's been paid back.
Posted by: Cruzinator at July 18, 2015 05:00 PM (B7Uun)

No, it didn't. It postponed it and made it much, much worse when it does inevitably happen.

We are in a depression right now and it's being papered over by deficit spending.

If we had taken our medicine in 2008, we would be in a genuine recovery by now.

Posted by: rickl at July 18, 2015 05:05 PM (sdi6R)

417 Trump is never going to be president.
It was a stupid thing to say.
But, McCain started the fight.
And McCain has heard this kind of "insult" before and is no shrinking violet.
All that having been qualified, one thing I Trump has over every other R in this race: I doubt he would ever allow his presidency to sustain the damage that 43's did over "Bush lied people died" when wmd's were later found.
I picture him, like Reagan perhaps, saying "there's the stuff we told you about, I told you so, now onto other matters."
IF Karl Rove actually instructed 43 not to point out the sarin gas etc., that is the single biggest blunder in politics in my lifetime, bar none including Christine O'Donnell and Todd Akin, etc., etc., it was malpractice.
Again IF, the amount of sarin gas was Iraqi and was of a significant amount etc.
At least Trump fights.
His childish tirade against Rosie O'Donnell was embarrassing but, once called out, at least she eventually shut up.

Posted by: bopiddy at July 18, 2015 05:05 PM (9HJf4)

418 Trump gets outta this because he will continue to push forward

Posted by: Casual Indifference at July 18, 2015 05:05 PM (kf36l)

419 Posted by: Grump928(C) is no fun at all at July 18, 2015 05:00 PM (rwI+c)

I thought just the opposite. He was one of two that showed concerned for what was happening and put country first. But granted the LIVs and the mob agreed with you.

Posted by: Cruzinator at July 18, 2015 05:06 PM (B7Uun)

420 TARP protected the large well-connected institutions. It gave them room to maneuver when the Feds changed the reserve requirements and mark-to-market rules. Smaller and regional banks were not so lucky. I have to admit I'm a bitter because I had two banks fail in which I was invested costing me $100K. No Federal white knight came to their aid.

Posted by: Grump928(C) is no fun at all at July 18, 2015 05:07 PM (rwI+c)

421 Ok, I'm gonna comment and run cause stuff, but:

My dad was a proud Marine, and could have been on a recruiting poster almost until the day he died. He got his sergeant stripe from The Seargeant Major of the Marine Corps. He LOATHED John McCain, and talked smack going back to the Keating 5. He always said MAYBE mccain behaved honorably as a POW. Daddy was never sure. I wonder now if mccain was the colossal dick pilot whose ejector seat pin got pulled and presented AFTER he came back from a hop.

Posted by: bebe's boobs destroy at July 18, 2015 05:08 PM (Vm8WO)

422 But granted the LIVs and the mob agreed with you.

Shrug. And the voters.

Posted by: Grump928(C) is no fun at all at July 18, 2015 05:08 PM (rwI+c)

423 Posted by: rickl at July 18, 2015 05:05 PM (sdi6R)

Do you even know way at TARP did? Nevermind you have your opinion and I have mine. We ain't changing minds.

Posted by: Cruzinator at July 18, 2015 05:08 PM (B7Uun)

424 Watch the entire tape. The moderator demands to know why Donald Trump called a WAR HERO a dummy. "He's a WAR HERO. POW! 5 1/2 years! WAR HERO!" Trump explains that it is disgusting that McCain dismissed 15,000 Trump supporters in Phoenix, Arizona, McCain's home state, "crazies". While Trump is still speaking, the moderator interrupts: "But he's a WAR HERO! A WAR HERO!". That's when Trump screws up his face in disgust and says "he's not a war hero....He is a war hero. He's a war hero because he was captured. I like people who weren't captured."

It was an instinctive, unfiltered reaction to the disgusting use of "WAR HERO" as a magic shield to shut down criticism of the odious McCain, something that he and his supporters have been doing for decades. It was impolitic, and rude, but it was not meant to slander others, but to slander one person, McCain. And McCain deserved it.

Posted by: Papillon at July 18, 2015 05:08 PM (83IN3)

425 "I don't see anybody calling for McCain's head or saying his political career over even though he said something far worse by calling his own voters "crazies."

I would support a primary against McCain.

Trump may not be on your side. You think he is. He may not. His entire goal could be ego alone. Or to help Hillary - hey his business empire needs to be friendly to Democrats, that's his excuse for donating to her.

He may completely bullox foreign policy for all we know.

I think his anti-trade and evermore bizarre illegal immigration claims HURT those causes.

Claiming Mexico's government warehouses criminals from all over the world who have been sent there specifically to get rid of them by sending them to the USA is crazy.

I'd need to see evidence. Mexican government camps full of rapists from all over the world.

Now..do bad guys come across. for sure.

But he's now claiming its orchestrated.

Posted by: Harun at July 18, 2015 05:09 PM (UBBWX)

426 Posted by: Grump928(C) is no fun at all at July 18, 2015 05:08 PM (rwI+c)

That's who most of the voters are.

Posted by: Cruzinator at July 18, 2015 05:09 PM (B7Uun)

427 Let's look at it another way. McCain bravely fought our communist enemies in Vietnam.

Yet, when he had a chance to fight a domestic communist threat to the USA, he shirked his duty, and in fact, has worked often in tandem with said enemy.

So, yeah, fuck McCain the politician.

Posted by: Grumpyguy at July 18, 2015 05:11 PM (6OScs)

428 That's who most of the voters are.

You either believe in self-government, or you don't. If you can't sell your program to them, you need to be in another line of work. Sure, it was a hostile marketplace but, McCain couldn't make the sale. That's the bottom line.

Posted by: Grump928(C) is no fun at all at July 18, 2015 05:12 PM (rwI+c)

429 Two predictions, which anyone here is able to make:

1. If Trump
takes the clear lead and stays there, he won't cool out and start to act
all statesmanlike. He'll ramp it up, saying even more
egregiously and deliberately stupid things to alienate more and more
people who may otherwise be drawn to him.

2.
If Trump slips back in the pack, he eventually goes third
party. Note he refused to categorically deny it was a possibility, nor
will he refuse to.

Result is the same either way. I expect option 2 will happen.

Posted by: Doomed at July 18, 2015 05:13 PM (bGLSw)

430 1. Trump is an egotistical blowhard who shouldn't be allowed into 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. except with a group tour.

2. Trump is saying things that need to be said (not this one) but are not being said even by the "un-RINO" candidates.

1 and 2 are not mutually exclusive. And people who address 1 without addressing 2 are only insuring that the Trump candidacy continues.

Posted by: FOAF at July 18, 2015 05:13 PM (eVemY)

431 I would support a primary against McCain.

Posted by: Harun at July 18, 2015 05:09 PM (UBBWX)

But he's a WAR HERO!! POW!!! WAR HERO!!! WAR HERO!!!

You can't run against a godamn POW/VETERAN microagressionblarghahhsls You should be up in arms! God damn War Hero!!! -- Ace.

Posted by: Nevyan at July 18, 2015 05:14 PM (zxWyw)

432 Beat that strawman, Nevyan.

Posted by: Grump928(C) is no fun at all at July 18, 2015 05:15 PM (rwI+c)

433 TARP was massive welfare subsidies to the banks and other financial institutions to fix a problem the government created in the first place, it was completely unnecessary and was simply put on the nations credit card.

We would have survived without it.

Posted by: Kreplach at July 18, 2015 05:15 PM (WVvzl)

434 432 Beat that strawman, Nevyan.

Posted by: Grump928(C) is no fun at all at July 18, 2015 05:15 PM (rwI+c)

Well seeing how Ace's stumping for Mike Flynn worked out I'm sure he will turn the tides for whichever candidate the establishment picks for us.

God Damn War Hero.

Posted by: Nevyan at July 18, 2015 05:17 PM (zxWyw)

435 Nevyan. I don't think that is Ace's position

We can be respectful that Charles Rangel served in Korea, but want him to lose an election.

You're imagining stuff to support Trump.

This would be like a Democrat calling Rangel a "coward who bugged out in Korea" in a primary.

Call Rangel a tax cheat would be fine. Calling Rangel as coward would not.

This is not really difficult, but apparently the siren call of Trump trumps all.

I bet Trump himself walks this back, just like he did with the "Mexicans are rapist" line. (Yes, I know he didn't quite say that...)

Posted by: Harun at July 18, 2015 05:17 PM (UBBWX)

436 I guess the non sequitur is better than the strawman, in a cosmic sense.

Posted by: Grump928(C) is no fun at all at July 18, 2015 05:18 PM (rwI+c)

437 I don't think that is Ace's position

Shh. He's rolling.

Posted by: Grump928(C) is no fun at all at July 18, 2015 05:19 PM (rwI+c)

438 433 TARP was massive welfare subsidies to the banks and other financial institutions to fix a problem the government created in the first place, it was completely unnecessary and was simply put on the nations credit card.

We would have survived without it.

Posted by: Kreplach at July 18, 2015 05:15 PM (WVvzl)

Exactly. WE would have survived, but the big banks wouldn't have. Too bad, so sad. Sucks to be them.

But that's the way capitalism is supposed to work.

Posted by: rickl at July 18, 2015 05:21 PM (sdi6R)

439 "2. Trump is saying things that need to be said (not this one) but are not being said even by the "un-RINO" candidates."

What's he saying?

that Mexico;s government has secret warehouse's full of dangerous criminal from all over the world that they send here?

Sorry, that's outlandish. And it hurts the cause.

Posted by: Harun at July 18, 2015 05:21 PM (UBBWX)

440 Bottom line.... Trump fights.
He will NEVER be president...
but he is teaching the other candidates how you handle the press in 2015 IF you want to win.
He is inflicting some serious damage on "the coup".
President Obama had to hide from Kate Steinele's parents because of what Trump said.
What other person can see "I did that" ?

Posted by: bopiddy at July 18, 2015 05:23 PM (9HJf4)

441
@424

Absolutely correct.

Posted by: Misfortune & Pestilence at July 18, 2015 05:23 PM (vHFh+)

442 Nevyan wrote:

"I would support a primary against McCain.

Posted by: Harun at July 18, 2015 05:09 PM (UBBWX)

But he's a WAR HERO!! POW!!! WAR HERO!!! WAR HERO!!!

You can't run against a godamn POW/VETERAN microagressionblarghahhsls You should be up in arms! God damn War Hero!!! -- Ace."

You're conflating two different things. Just because McCain is a lousy damn politician in the present day doesn't mean the events of the sixties and seventies _never happened_.

Basically, go back to the 240's and see what Zombie wrote.

Posted by: Thing From Snowy Mountain at July 18, 2015 05:25 PM (2bMA4)

443 McCain is a punk. He had it coming. Get over it. As a former Marine I am all for someone with balls fighting back against these pieces of crap GOP establishment types.

Posted by: WJ at July 18, 2015 05:25 PM (oPNiH)

444 Well, while I'm worrying about Trump, every Democratic candidate wants to EXPAND social security.

Posted by: Harun at July 18, 2015 05:25 PM (UBBWX)

445 Breitbart notes that "Trump left to a long lasting standing ovation, which will be by far the biggest ovation of the weekend, and much congratulatory praise."

Trump's "clarifying" statement is not defensive at all -- in fact, he presses his points about McCain as a lousy senator.

Perry wants Trump to withdraw. What an asshole. He's acting like the Miss Manners proctor of the race -- deciding what's "respectful" and who should withdraw. Ben Carson, to his credit, welcomed all voices and to let the marketplace decide.

Posted by: rrpjr at July 18, 2015 05:26 PM (s/yC1)

446 Posted by: Papillon at July 18, 2015 05:08 PM (83IN3)

Thanks, that's good to know that it was a spontaneous reaction to a jerk moderator, rather than a planned statement. That makes it slightly less assholish. Still, if he's going to keep running, he'll need to be more thoughtful. Even I can think of a much better response than the one he gave, and I get stuck for an answer when someone says Hello to me.

Posted by: stace at July 18, 2015 05:27 PM (CoX6k)

447 Well, while I'm worrying about Trump, every Democratic candidate wants to EXPAND social security.

In fairness, so do most the Republican candidates. Sure, we lose money on every immigrant, but we'll make it up in volume!

Posted by: Grump928(C) is no fun at all at July 18, 2015 05:27 PM (rwI+c)

448 #424
Is that the story?
I would have said, He WAS a war hero. Now he is a Senator for the Republican party and serves a base he personally detests. If you voted for him, McCain has more hatred of you than he does anyone else.

Posted by: astonerii at July 18, 2015 05:28 PM (o/DjS)

449 I think Hillary Clinton's entire campaign is scared shitless of the thought of her on a stage engaged in a one on one debate with Trump.

Of course if this happens something went very wrong.

Posted by: bopiddy at July 18, 2015 05:30 PM (9HJf4)

450 "Perry wants Trump to withdraw."

-------------------------------------------------------------------
Because he can't beat him. Otherwise he would fight. The fight would show he had some gusto.

Posted by: OTB at July 18, 2015 05:30 PM (BvSwL)

451 McRino punched "The Donald" in the arm....."The Donald" punched McRino in the mouth......as of two or three days ago....if this never happened.....would there be 420 comments on the matter......go to You-tube and type in John McCain Exposed by VN vets and POW'S.....10:39 of viewing.....
I am a VN vet and know about McRino....NOT A GOOD GUY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
and just for shit's and giggles......find out who dropped the bombs in shear panic from their aircraft that helped kill 134 sailors on the USS Forrestal Aircraft Carrier.......
and about captured because you were over-run....in VN "ONLY" the lucky-ones became POW'S
High ranking NCO's and just about all officers.....

Posted by: Jerseyflash at July 18, 2015 05:32 PM (iYA3D)

452 "He will NEVER be president... "

Well, an illegal alien with a forged birth certificate, affirmative action, grifting, community organizer with a whole 120 days in the Senate married to an illiterate, white hating, grifting, "beard" of a wife was elected pResident.

So while I can't predict the future, after Obama, ANYONE can be president in now.

Posted by: Misfortune & Pestilence at July 18, 2015 05:33 PM (vHFh+)

453 452

Well said.

Posted by: OTB at July 18, 2015 05:35 PM (BvSwL)

454 find out who dropped the bombs in shear panic from their aircraft that helped kill 134 sailors on the USS Forrestal Aircraft Carrier

No, I'm not going to go there. As much as I despise McCain, it's been proven time and time again that he had nothing to do with the Forrestal disaster. He was lucky to escape with his life.

Posted by: rickl at July 18, 2015 05:36 PM (sdi6R)

455 Trump went to Wharton undergrad in the '60's when if you had a pulse you could get in and if you could stay relatively sober , you could get through . Trump is an idiot .

Posted by: jay hoenemeyer at July 18, 2015 05:42 PM (uvj0z)

456 Posted by: Jerseyflash at July 18, 2015 05:32 PM (iYA3D)

That's a myth about what happened on the Forrestal.

Almost all the POWs were pilots who were shot down behind enemy lines. Yes, they were all officers, except for a handful.

I can't stand Trump, but I'm not going to spread old wive's tales about him.

Posted by: stace at July 18, 2015 05:44 PM (CoX6k)

457 "A parent's job is to raise their child to adulthood. Parents whose kids die are huge losers, just like McCain. Right, Johnny?
Posted by: lincolntf at July 18, 2015 05:04 PM (tvQwu)"

Yes. Being a loser isn't necessarily a character failure or even something you can avoid.

Posted by: Johnny at July 18, 2015 05:44 PM (WvGsS)

458
At one point, Mccain personified duty, honor and country.

It's a shame that didn't carry over.

Posted by: irongrampa at July 18, 2015 05:48 PM (jeCnD)

459 Posted by: Johnny at July 18, 2015 05:44 PM (WvGsS)

To take it a bit farther, a soldier's job is to kill the soldiers on the other side, and if he gets killed he's failed. He's a loser. Those cemeteries in France full of Americans? Just a bunch of fuckups. Retarded clowns, the lot. Even though there deaths enabled their side to win, they are LOSERS.

Posted by: stace at July 18, 2015 05:48 PM (CoX6k)

460 Trump is so right about McVain, but doesn't know why.

http://www.pythiapress.com/wartales/McCain-Shootdown.htm

Posted by: Valiant at July 18, 2015 05:54 PM (2bqlb)

461 "McRino punched "The Donald" in the arm....."The Donald" punched McRino in the mouth......as of two or three days ago....if this never happened.....would there be 420 comments on the matter......go to You-tube and type in John McCain Exposed by VN vets and POW'S.....10:39 of viewing.....
I am a VN vet and know about McRino....NOT A GOOD GUY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
and just for shit's and giggles......find out who dropped the bombs in shear panic from their aircraft that helped kill 134 sailors on the USS Forrestal Aircraft Carrier.......
and about captured because you were over-run....in VN "ONLY" the lucky-ones became POW'S
High ranking NCO's and just about all officers....."

About 110 or so American POW's died in captivity in the Vietnam War. I suspect if you really were an American vet you'd know that.

I guess the fifty ruble army is sending in support for Trump now.

Posted by: Thing From Snowy Mountain at July 18, 2015 05:56 PM (2bMA4)

462 From an interesting article.

...McCains most horrendous loss occurred in 1967 on the USS Forrestal.

Well, not horrendous for him.

The starter motor switch on the A4E Skyhawk allowed fuel to pool in the engine. When the aircraft was wet-started, an impressive flame would shoot from the tail. It was one of the ways young hot-shots got their jollies.

Investigators and survivors took the position that McCain deliberately wet-started to harass the F4 pilot directly behind him. The cook off launched an M34 Zuni rocket that tore through the Skyhawks fuel tank, released a
thousand pound bomb, and ignited a fire that killed the pilot plus 167
men.

Before the tally of dead and dying was complete, the son and
grandson of admirals had been transferred to the USS Oriskany.

McCain was, is and will always be a turd.

He's was a lousy soldier, a terrible and corrupt Senator and the worst GOP Presidential candidate I've ever seen.

Stephen Hayes is a dick for what he did and I have absolutely no problems with what Trump said.

Posted by: Kreplach at July 18, 2015 05:57 PM (WVvzl)

463

Drudge: "OBAMA'S SECRET RACE DATABASE"

See? Here we go again. I predicted Monday but things are picking up speed so the latest outrage is here on Saturday.

Posted by: Misfortune & Pestilence at July 18, 2015 05:59 PM (vHFh+)

464 @463

He's got a little less than two years left to do as much damage as possible.

I fully predict this asshole will at least get one and quite possibly two more shots at SCOTUS nominations.

One being Ginsburg and probably one of the others on the court.

Scalia is 76 so unless that guy has some longevity genes his time is about up.

And I don't think Obama is going to nominate a Justice in the Scalia mold.

Posted by: Kreplach at July 18, 2015 06:04 PM (WVvzl)

465
Drudge:

"Unprecedented collection of sensitive data on Americans..."
"Prying into most personal info at most local levels..."
"All for purpose of 'racial and economic justice'..."

Now you know that all the candidates will say nothing and do nothing to stop Obama because...Uniparty!

Posted by: Misfortune & Pestilence at July 18, 2015 06:05 PM (vHFh+)

466 Ace, don't quite know how to say this but. get over it and grow a pair. So Trump throws a few elbows back and you get all vaklempt.

No one else was targeted. Unless there are other POW's that specifically went after Trump and hold national office you have a sample size of 1.

Stop acting like the God damned left.

Posted by: brainpimp at July 18, 2015 06:08 PM (zosQc)

467 Posted by: Kreplach at July 18, 2015 05:57 PM (WVvzl)

Again, the Forrestal thing is a myth. McCain's plane (or the one next to his, I forget) was hit by a rocket accidentally fired from across the deck.

Posted by: stace at July 18, 2015 06:12 PM (CoX6k)

468 Investigators and survivors took the position that McCain deliberately wet-started to harass the F4 pilot directly behind him. The cook off launched an M34 Zuni rocket

That sounds fairly preposterous on it's face.

Posted by: Grump928(C) at July 18, 2015 06:13 PM (rwI+c)

469 It's a mystery to me why criticism of McCain the horrible senator has to include myths about him supposedly destroying an aircraft carrier.

Posted by: stace at July 18, 2015 06:14 PM (CoX6k)

470 "To take it a bit farther, a soldier's job is to kill the soldiers on the other side, and if he gets killed he's failed. He's a loser. Those cemeteries in France full of Americans? Just a bunch of fuckups. Retarded clowns, the lot. Even though there deaths enabled their side to win, they are LOSERS.
Posted by: stace at July 18, 2015 05:48 PM (CoX6k)"

Do you get off on humiliation or something? Is that cuckold article ace linked about you?

Posted by: Johnny at July 18, 2015 06:16 PM (WvGsS)

471 ACE-Change your fucking tampon. THIS is the kind of shit repubes fold on every time.Haven't you learned a fucking thing?!

Posted by: NYDOLLS at July 18, 2015 06:21 PM (aHX05)

472 McCain is a Political target- Get it-At least i know what trump truly thinks, cuz his mouth runs faster than his political correctness.

For a business man its win or loose. Period, McCain has done more damage than most. is it not in our own best interest to inject some balls into this group
of wannabe kings.

Posted by: Frodus at July 18, 2015 06:23 PM (7OAjN)

473 Everyone knows what Trump meant. This McCain sanctimony bullshit is pathetic...

Posted by: J76 at July 18, 2015 06:24 PM (aHX05)

474 Okay, diagrams available online show the idea of McCain's A4 setting off the missile seem unlikely in the extreme. The diag show the A4's with their tails pointed outboard, which jibes with the available video on YouTube.

Is this really a thing?

Posted by: Grump928(C) at July 18, 2015 06:26 PM (rwI+c)

475 462
"From an interesting article.

Investigators and survivors took the position that
McCain deliberately wet-started to harass the F4 pilot directly behind
him. The cook off launched an M34 Zuni rocket that tore through the
Skyhawks fuel tank, released a
thousand pound bomb, and ignited a fire that killed the pilot plus 167
men."

Posted by: Kreplach at July 18, 2015 05:57 PM (WVvzl)

Kind of hard to harass the "F-4 pilot directly behind him" when the engine of 416 was POINTED OFF THE FANTAIL.

The fire on CV-59 stemmed from two things:

1. an electrical short, and
2. the installation of the signal pigtail with the aircraft pointing across the deck, in direct contravention to NAVWEPS standing directive

McCain has had plenty to do with our current state of affairs, but he had fuck-all to do with the fire.

Seriously- if you're going to collect your material on the subject matter of the Forrestal fire from Godlike Productions, do us a favor and hold your breath for 10-12 minutes before posting.

Posted by: Fringe at July 18, 2015 06:26 PM (+GIZJ)

476 Trump states the obvious. McLame has fucked this country over more from the senate than islam could dream of.

Posted by: GRYF at July 18, 2015 06:27 PM (aHX05)

477 ACE gets the vapors...I do declare...

Posted by: MoeGreen at July 18, 2015 06:30 PM (aHX05)

478 "It's a mystery to me why criticism of McCain the horrible senator has to include myths about him supposedly destroying an aircraft carrier."

When you're a member of the fifty ruble army, getting people to stop discussing the issues and force them to defend a politician they don't like is a victory.

It's part of what's making Trump such an effective troll as well.

I dislike Boner, and McConnell, and all the GoPe has done to us, and Obama, but since everyone's decided on Trump being The Figurehead of the Anti-Establishment we're stuck being revolted by the guy who's sucking all the oxygen out of the room for the adult opposition, like Perry or Walker.

Posted by: Thing From Snowy Mountain at July 18, 2015 06:34 PM (2bMA4)

479 @475

Here's the thing, I don't give a flying fuck about McCain, his sacred honor, his service or what might or not be the myth or reality of the Forrestal

What I care about is a man who was and is a corrupt Senator, who regards me as a whacko bird and wants my votes and desires to become a nullity by importing millions of illiterate peasants to swamp this country and ultimately transform it into a socialist banana republic AmeriMexico shithole.

Stephen Hayes is a dick, McCain is a clown and I find nothing wrong with what McCain said.

There is exactly one candidate for the GOP nomination who pretty much mirrors my opinion on immigration and is annunciating it, perhaps imperfectly, but he is the only one.

I support that man.

Posted by: Kreplach at July 18, 2015 06:45 PM (WVvzl)

480 Assume much you have..The other wanna bees turned over their air at their own demise. True this is, Blame Trump for the others faults much, you have.

Oh big mouth took my toys away, I wanna play too.

Posted by: Frodus at July 18, 2015 06:46 PM (7OAjN)

481 Here's the thing, I don't give a flying fuck about McCain, his sacred honor, his service or what might or not be the myth or reality of the Forrestal

Indeed. But you posted myth. That needs to be pointed out so others don't make the same mistake and look foolish. Nothing personal in it, at least, not from me.

Posted by: Grump928(C) at July 18, 2015 06:49 PM (rwI+c)

482 McCain is a war hero because he flew his A-4 Skyhawk into PAK 6, the region with the heaviest air defenses ever concentrated in wartime up to then. He got shot down by an SA-2 Guideline missile, about the size of three telephone poles bundled together. You can see one over at the Udvar-Hazy branch of the National Air & Space Museum by Dulles airport outside DC. The North Vietnamese had to shoot about fifty of those to down an aircraft.

If you got shot down over North Vietnam, you were captured or killed. There were no exceptions. No US pilot descending by parachute over North Vietnam ever talked his way out. Nobody was fooled by their clever disguise of being a Westerner in a flight suit.

McCain had the particular misfortune of breaking both arms and his right leg in the inverted ejection and landing in a lake in the middle of Hanoi. He was saved from drowning by North Vietnamese who beat the shit out of him until he was taken direct to the Hanoi Hilton.

The North Vietnamese commie animals tortured him for years. When they found out he was an admiral's son, they offered him early release but he refused to be repatriated ahead of the others. So they tortured him for years more. Of all the military POWs held by the Vietnamese, he was one of the fiercest resisters. That's what makes him a goddam war hero.

When has this trash-talking rich pussy boy Trump ever put his fat ass on the line for his country? He's got the typical rich boy attitude of making cheap insults because he is insulated from repercussion by his wealth.

Trump has just committed political suicide, thank goodness. He will not recover from this jackass treasonous remark. Good riddance to him. Now we can focus on the real candidates, the ones not wearing the orange wig of a clown.

McCain is a great man, a mediocre politician, and a lousy conservative, but he is indisputably a war hero.

Posted by: Tantor at July 18, 2015 06:54 PM (IUeEL)

483 @481

Again, I may or may not have posted myth.

I don't know.

I don't care.

I do not like McCain.

People like him are destroying this country.

He needs to stop, he needs to go away.

I support Trump because he is saying things I agree with, I suspect you agree with him as well.

So I would say to you, who I have the utmost respect for, we should support him as well, as imperfect as he is.

Because all of the other candidates support amnesty, oh they might tell you they don't, but they do.

Posted by: Kreplach at July 18, 2015 06:55 PM (WVvzl)

484 "I'm sure, and the guy would be a disaster. Shit, Obama ostensibly KNOWS the Constitution and is a clownshow. "

I can't believe anybody here actually wrote that comment in seriousness.

I bet you believe he was a law professor too.

Posted by: Misfortune & Pestilence at July 18, 2015 06:56 PM (vHFh+)

485 So let get this straight the head of the RNC call Trump and says tone it down fella or we ain't gonna play with you. The RNC has to call him instead Trump calling the RNC. Sounds about right to me, the RNC is getting publicly bitched slapped for the last 3 weeks.

Ok as if i give a rats ass what McCain did with his pilot stick between his legs 30 years ago. Move along nothing to see here...

Posted by: Frodus at July 18, 2015 06:57 PM (7OAjN)

486 Again, I may or may not have posted myth.

I don't know.

I don't care.

I do not like McCain.

I understand the temptation. Any stick for a dog, the Abyss stares back, etc.

Posted by: Grump928(C) at July 18, 2015 06:59 PM (rwI+c)

487 "Damn it" Jim, the Republicans own the house and the Senate, im doctor not a miracle maker.

Am i missing something here, they own both house and still roll over like lap dogs and McCain i got shot down and demand you bow down while kiss Obama ass whether you like it or not.

Damn it Jim put McCain back in that plane bitch.

Posted by: Frodus at July 18, 2015 07:05 PM (7OAjN)

488 "Again, I may or may not have posted myth.

I don't know.

I don't care."

But you cared enough to post it, and underline your willingness to sign on in support over things you know nothing about.

Do you know why Americans classify immigration as the 4th most important topic for the 2016 election? Because the economy, rampant unemployment, and the exponentially increasing cost of healthcare is *more* important. It's not a top three issue, because Americans expect it to be handled in accordance with *current* law.

That is the underlying problem- that we have a whole host of current laws on the books, mostly capable of handling the matter now; the United States doesn't require 'immigration reform', but instead merely executing the law as written.

Meanwhile...

Trump speaks to neither the first or second concern,
thinks single-payer is awesome (read "The America We Deserve"),
and that Obama is a swell guy (also on the record)

Does that actually jive with you as someone with critical decision making skills?

Posted by: Fringe at July 18, 2015 07:08 PM (+GIZJ)

489 I have no use for McCain as a politician or as a man. He's one of those types who runs his eyes up and down every woman and then decides if she is pretty enough to bother to talk to. Acceptable, if boorish, in a bar. Repugnant at a political reception. Really stupid when the woman's clothes and jewelry suggests she could easily write a large check on the spot.

That said, my first reaction to meeting McCain was how much older he looked than he appeared on TV. He was 60 at the time. Up close he looked and moved like am octogenarian: The trademark white hair was thin and lank, the hands gnarled and he obviously didn't enjoying standing for any length of time.

Trump's comment shows the same ignorance Obama's minions displayed back in 2008 when they made fun of him for not using e-mail. If they had googled McCain and arthritis they'd have found the physical abuse and improperly treated injuries suffered in Vietnam caught up with McCain a long time ago.

McCain was there the day I met him to help another mangled warrior, Bob Dole. McCain has been pretty tireless over the years in helping other candidates, despite the fact that he obviously is often in pain.

Who does the Donald ever seem help other than himself?

Posted by: NC Mountain Girl at July 18, 2015 07:09 PM (pnoHo)

490 The longer we go, the more I think The Don is God's punishment on the GOP for running off Palin. They didn't like the gov because she was poor, vulgar white trash, didn't have enough experience and wasn't a team player?* Well, now they have a rich vulgar white trash candidate, with no political experience, who really isn't a team player and appears to have neither the inclination nor frankly the motivation to try to learn. Good luck with that, boys.

*In their estimation, which is (putting it mildly) overrated.

Posted by: Rich Fader at July 18, 2015 07:13 PM (LeeQi)

491 "Posted by: Tantor at July 18, 2015 06:54 PM (IUeEL)"

McCain is a traitor no matter how hard you blow him. I don't give a shit about what he did a hundred years ago. The McCain of today is selling his country.

Posted by: Johnny at July 18, 2015 07:14 PM (WvGsS)

492 I agree with Trump. McCain isn't a war hero. What amazing victory did he achieve? What incredible feat did he accomplish overcoming near insurmountable odds. All McCain did was get shot down. hardly the stuff of legends.

Words are suppose to mean something. Calling someone a hero is supposed to mean that person did something heroic. Everyone is not a winner. Everyone is not a hero.

Posted by: amanwithnoparty at July 18, 2015 07:26 PM (sbaXF)

493 This shit is hilarious.

Posted by: Duncan MacLeod, the Highlander at July 18, 2015 07:27 PM (COpZ4)

494 Pssssssttttt.....Our country is going down in flames. Maybe we should, ya know, tackle that.

Posted by: Duncan MacLeod, the Highlander at July 18, 2015 07:28 PM (COpZ4)

495 490.
Exactly.
I actually enjoying watching the news anymore just to see the reactions.
There was a female cnn reporter interviewing Trump on his golf course and her reactions were priceless.
I know this is going to end badly (his candidacy) but I'm enjoying it while it lasts.
I think Gavin Mcinness might be on to something with "Trump paving the way for a Walker or a Cruz, etc....."

Posted by: bopiddy at July 18, 2015 07:30 PM (9HJf4)

496 Ha ha, you wrote about Trump seriously. That was well thoughtful, more thought than the subject deserves. The subject is narcissist. Boom, gotcha. Got your thoughts, more than he deserved.

Posted by: bour3 at July 18, 2015 07:31 PM (5x3+2)

497 "Trump speaks to neither the first or second concern,
thinks single-payer is awesome (read "The America We Deserve"),"

Yeah, what's so different with the Uniparty candidates?

We'll get rid of Obamacare. That's our slogan for 2016 - Signed the GOPe (Hey, it worked the last three times - suckers).

"and that Obama is a swell guy (also on the record)"

Do you remember that roast that Obama did to Trump at the Correspondents dinner? I bet Trump despises Obama. He's bidding his time. He's no fool.

The rest of the field sucks up to Obama too. So what is your point?

Posted by: Misfortune & Pestilence at July 18, 2015 07:34 PM (vHFh+)

498 Not that I like the man. But he does have a sort of skewed point with "I prefer the guys who don't get captured."

He wants to point to superheroes, not reality. And that's what sells movies, too. He wants fantasy, not reality. As do most politicians.

Posted by: Kathy Kinsley at July 18, 2015 07:36 PM (P1Mfe)

499 "Who does the Donald ever seem help other than himself?"

Read comment #424 to hear what really happened here.

This all started because McCain called the base, people who voted for him in 2008 - crazies. McCain attacked Trump's supporters and Trump had the balls to defend them. (God, that's refreshing).

McCain is an asshole whose only saving grace is his past military service.

He swung at Trump first.

The moderator brought up the subject and got an off the cuff remark from Trump.

But feel free to be all outraged and stuff.

Posted by: Misfortune & Pestilence at July 18, 2015 07:46 PM (vHFh+)

500 Trump gets elected.
Trump goes "full Bullworth"
Starts renaming states:
"Trumpifornia"
"Trumpsylvania"
"Trumplahoma"............

Posted by: bopiddy at July 18, 2015 07:48 PM (9HJf4)

501 Trumplorado

Posted by: bopiddy at July 18, 2015 07:52 PM (9HJf4)

502 I'm not a fan of Trump and agree his remark was crass, but McCain threw the first punch (Trump has stirred up the crazies.) If you can't take a punch, don't start a fight.

Posted by: BBReggie at July 18, 2015 07:54 PM (K1RXR)

503 This is daily media masturbation.

I care about the future of the nation, not people's opinions on John McVain.

Who gives a fuck what about anyone thinks about John Mcvain? How about we get a secure border and some decent jobs in this shitty country?

Posted by: Duncan MacLeod, the Highlander at July 18, 2015 08:02 PM (COpZ4)

504 Look at the electorate he his dealing with.

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Posted by: Frodus at July 18, 2015 08:04 PM (7OAjN)

505 Ah HAHAHAHA!

Posted by: The Barrel at July 18, 2015 08:07 PM (sdi6R)

506 Getting shot down is either bad luck or incompetence, but it's certainly not heroism, except in the sense that being there to be shot down is both heroic and what goes with the job. So Trump is right to decry the automatic 'hero' status we award our POWs.

But McCain is reported to have behaved heroically in captivity and to have suffered for it, so 'war hero' seems appropriate. Forty years of his posing in front of a backdrop with the word 'HERO' emblazoned on it and arrows pointing down have kind of worn the gloss off it, though. And he did start the name calling.

So Trump may have been more logical than politic in his comment, and it would certainly have sounded better coming from a veteran, but I can't really fault him for it. And unsentimental logic is something we are going to need.

Posted by: PersonFromPorlock at July 18, 2015 08:33 PM (U4QC6)

507 Meh, I still can fantasize about a Trump Presidency: Lining up cabinet heads, government union workers and on national TV telling them that government workers are useless and inefficient (or course meaning just those ones but that's the way he does it - 'offending' everyone else who wants to be offended) and that they're Fired.

Posted by: doug at July 18, 2015 08:48 PM (IYEs/)

508 All Trump has to do is buy 2 minutes of air time and apologize to everyone else and that he really only was talking about McCain in his comment, after all Benedict Arnold was a 'hero' at one point. Then point out that he wishes McCain would just jump in the ring as well so he can kick his face-sucking-off-the-government-teat-should-have-been-term-limited-long-ago ass as well. Heck, he probably would have half the vote right then and there.

Posted by: doug at July 18, 2015 08:51 PM (IYEs/)

509 Pretty simple, Trump is not a member of the political class, ergo the political class must destroy him.

Trump is not a member of the political class, ergo he will be a favorite to win in an era where the citizenry wants blood from it's politicians. All he has to do is keep belittling each of the other politicians and get them all massed against him and he gets 40% of the primary vote and everyone else splits the rest.

Well, until Palin gets in the ring, then it's all over for everyone else.

Posted by: doug at July 18, 2015 09:09 PM (IYEs/)

510 Perfect opportunity for Teh Donald to go (I), and become the 2016 version of Ross Perot.

Jeb! becomes the nominee, and Der Hildebeast miraculously pulls out the nomination from the upstart socialist.

So, you will have Bush vs. Clinton vs. Perot, er Trump......

Think I've seen this movie before, and spoiler alert, it doesn't end well......

Posted by: wytshus at July 18, 2015 09:44 PM (eHTNi)

511 Enough of this garbage. Give me a fucking break.

That pos mccain gave a STATEMENT in an interview with alib and a lib rag calling gop voters crazies.

Where's my fucking rnc tweet statement on that?

Fuck mccain and his service. Luntz used his war hero status as a trap. Trump was inartful, boo fucking hoo. He immediately clarified.

Enough with this bullshit. You fools don't realize that literally only trump or bush can win. It's all a setup, which is why the knives are out for donald.

Posted by: Prescient11 at July 18, 2015 10:11 PM (IXLyX)

512 Ace is a bigger bitch than Caitlyn.

Posted by: Beardless Wunder at July 18, 2015 10:24 PM (hoHGs)

513 First watch the entire 5 minutes of video, otherwise you have no context.
McCain will be sorry he threw the first punch. There is a nice picture of him standing next to all the pre Isis fighters going around with the caption "Real Heroes don't stand with the enemy" McCain is used to being the bully, he is going to be destroyed by this. The internet is dredging up every past betrayal and scandal this nasty piece of corruption has done in his career from every dubious yet strangely credible occurance during his service years given legs by his stalwart stand against MIA's to his involvement in the Keating 5, to his crazy support for the Libyan bombing, to his build the danged fence lies. Trump may be imperfect, but he defended us crazies stalwartly and well against one of the great serial betrayers of conservative principles in the entire Senate. Straight Talk right back at cha Johnny boy. As to Rick (I put the guard on the border ) Perry we here in Texas know that was worth nuthin.
I don't know I thought Trump might not be serious in the beginning, but he is beginning to look as serious as a heart attack to the quisling repubs who have never faced an opponent who simply doesn't care what the pc proles think.
Is he flawed? Terribly, but not as badly flawed as the folks who keep telling us lie after lie after lie. Somehow I'm ok either way. Either he is telling the truth, or he is just another sellout in the end. But don't tell me there is any other candidate who isn't lying through their teeth and I'm looking at you one worlder JEB! And you amnesty Rubio, and gardisil Perry, and the Huckster, I gotta raise enough money to live on for four more years Santorum, I'm a brain surgeon make me president Carson, reach out to prisoners ticket to the White House Paul, TTP Cruz and so on.
If I'm going to be sold out again at least this time I get to watch the rest of the sellouts go down too.

Posted by: Old Guy at July 18, 2015 10:26 PM (FeRav)

514 ACE-you folded faster than Mike Pence with the fudgepackers. The Washington Postquoted out of context. Trump said just the opposite.

Posted by: NYDOLLS at July 18, 2015 10:35 PM (aHX05)

515 Trumpesota

Posted by: bopiddy at July 18, 2015 10:35 PM (J7XQ0)

516 513
I am very sorry for you. You must be a very unhappy person.
I hope you can have a nice day sometime. Maybe you can, if you realize you are also imperfect.

Posted by: Arkansas Yankee at July 18, 2015 11:23 PM (Je4OY)

517 Trumped. Again

John McCain and his Nonsense, is now a wedge issue in GOP

Thanks Trump!

Posted by: Casual Indifference at July 19, 2015 12:05 AM (kf36l)

518 "Somebody's doing the raping."

Trump
2016

Posted by: Prescient11 at July 19, 2015 12:31 AM (IXLyX)

519
Face it. Trump is the highlight of this electionand will eventually drop out. Hillary or one of the manyrepublican She-maleswill be elected. There will be little political change either way.Just an everincreasing slide into socialism.
We'll still be here bitching about the uni-party and looking at fucking cat pictures...

Posted by: NYDOLLS at July 19, 2015 12:47 AM (aHX05)

520 Trump is leading all polls and only half those polled thinks his run is serious.

Think very hard on that.

Posted by: Prescient11 at July 19, 2015 01:11 AM (IXLyX)

521 Ah, the daily Ace Is Bashing Trump post.

Look, Trump isn't going to be the nominee. Stop wasting time pretending that he's a serious threat at winning the nomination.

Posted by: Justfactualthings at July 19, 2015 01:21 AM (oCxXI)

522 In my nic is an article about John McCain "war hero" which I will also link in the early thread.
I am voting for Trump!

Posted by: Chilling the most at July 19, 2015 08:28 AM (zW5rQ)

523 "We just had one Know-Nothing Know-It-All Princeling as President; I'm not sure I'd like to see a different variation of the breed."

Cain't argue. Also, Prescient11 at comment #520 is pretty spot on. Heinlein's Crazy Years.

Posted by: Mentor of Arisia at July 19, 2015 09:24 AM (kk2ap)

524 A discussion on American Thinker concerning McCain. The comments are pretty brutal, especially for American Thinker.

http://tinyurl.com/pfmdxtp

Posted by: thatcrazyjerseyguy at July 19, 2015 10:05 AM (TPimP)

525 ace is gay

fuck mccaine and his service

TRUMP TRUMP TRUMP TRUMP TRUMP

Posted by: trump fan at July 19, 2015 10:07 AM (cGJg+)

526 everywhere I go on these Internets I keep seeing conservative blogs bashing Trump.

then I read the comment section and see the astounding level of support for Trump.

has the revolution begun?

I don't know maybe, if Trump keeps up pissing off all the right people he just may be able to win or at least force a major attitude shift in the GOP.

Carry on Mr. Trump

Posted by: Shoey at July 19, 2015 10:29 AM (vA94g)

527 McCain a hero? Sure
McCain a retard? Definitely!

Posted by: Short Bus at July 19, 2015 03:14 PM (FxXWj)

528 It's official. ACE has turned into CHARLES JOHNSON. "Watch me, Faggots"...

Posted by: NYDOLLS at July 19, 2015 03:19 PM (aHX05)

529 McCain has been a traitor, in spite of "performing well" as a POW. That's about it. Watch him throwing the election in 2008; watch him sell us out in the Senate. Watch him buddy-up to islamists. I will take Trump's truth over most of what everyone else has to say these days. Anyone who speaks truth to power and truth to corruption is ok in my book and should have the privilege of running for President. Let's simply hold his/her feet to the fire, too, but ask those bought-and-sold leftists (name the owners of media -- not their slavies) the same questions. Ask the other so-called Republican-Independent candidates the same questions.

Posted by: pyromancer76 at July 19, 2015 03:21 PM (zvcr8)

530 Sometimes, stupid people with important things to say should learn when to shut their stupid mouths about unimportant things. Trump dragged one of the most important issues in our country kicking and screaming into the limelight.

Now this important issue will slink back into the darkness because it will be seen as one of the many outre things ranted about by a fringe lunatic.

Why, oh why could he not just stay on topic? The immigration issue and his plain talk about it skyrocketed him to the top of the GOP heap. Don't get ensnared in media traps and he had a real shot.

Posted by: Lamont Cranston at July 19, 2015 07:02 PM (Rtyzj)

531 McCain needed to retire yesterday. Hero is in the eye of the beholder. As a senator he has been a real pain in the ass. He has fought withhis own party as much as with the donks.

Posted by: Case, Mors Semper Tyrannis at July 20, 2015 02:42 AM (jN+3o)

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