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Hey Here's a Crazy Idea, Let's Try Actual Honest Discussion and See What Happens

I objected to the Huffington Post's Decidery Decision to put Trump on in the Entertainment section for the same reason I object to the media's embargo of the Planned Parenthood story:

It is an attempt to win an argument without having an argument, an attempt to win what should be a contest of competing ideas by use of processes that have nothing to do with the intellect.

Human beings are pack mammals. There are various ways to get a human being to claim agreement with your way of thinking. Excluding the more physical ways, such as simply beating that human being with the thigh-bone of an auroch until he rolls into the fetal position of surrender, here are the two main socio-intellectual ways to convince someone of something:

1. You can have an honest discussion with him, conducted on an intellectual, not emotional, not social, plane, in which you both offer your ideas and your best possible arguments for them. While such discussions rarely change minds, when they do change minds, they change them honestly and purely, by reason, by force of logic, by persuasiveness.

2. You can run a series of social-hierarchy, social-shaming political games against the person you wish to convince; you can ostracize him, setting him away from the group, alone and afraid, to be ritually mocked by the group until his humiliation and desire to end the torment of social pain compels him to confess a (coerced) agreement with you.

I'm not going to lie to anyone; #2 is more frequently effective than #1, if all you care about is pure outcome, and furthermore, #2 is very easy compared to #1, as #2 only requires that you have some allies you can convince to run the social shaming game on a target -- the butt, the scapegoat-- and it's easy to convince people to do that, because people like being cruel.

#2 is by far the most common form of political tactic, and it is indeed political -- just like any political campaign, it consists of designating a Hero (or Hero Position) and a Villain (anyone holding the Villain Position), and getting the most people to hoot and bray and jeer and spit at the other side.

You know when you've won when you get the most people on your side, or at least the most people willing to spit the most, and cow the other side into social submission.

I am annoyed by the media's Shaming and Legitimacy-Conferring or Denying in general, but I am especially disappointed by conservatives who actively celebrate instances of these things when they are useful, in the exceedingly short-term, to settle some political fight they apparently think is the Most Important Thing in the History of Ever.

And this crap with the Huffington Post is this sort of political/social gamesmaship; it is both the Bandwagon Effect and counting up your number of supporters to prove you're right (was Einstein right when he proved General Relativity, or was he right only when the Physics Cool Kids said he was?), and it is an Appeal to Authority which, again, has nothing to do with the actual truth or falsity of the claim under consideration, but is a purely emotional resort to asserting a Socio-Intellectual Hierarchy to get people of allegedly lesser rank to accept that they have been commanded by a superior member of the pack.

Oh, and by the way, as to this particular Appeal to Authority...? The Huffington Post's politics editorial staff...?

My tongue is so firmly pressed against my cheek that I can only mumble the words: "That's what I call 'a Big Get,' man. Congratulations on that. Huge if true."

I'm not angel, and I'm no idealist: I understand that political games will occasionally be deployed in politics.

However, for my part, I would say the following:

1. I am not a stupid man. The "political/social shame circle" style of "argument' increasingly strikes me as not just stupid but viciously and basely so, and so offends my intellect, which in turn offends my ego. I have an ego, and spending so much time in this insipid mode of "persuasion," favored by animals of the field and 8-year-old children establishing dominance hierarchies on the playground, offends me on an egotistical level.

I am better than this, and I am egotistical enough to declare that.

2. I am a man, not a child, and, quite frankly, this all seems extremely juvenile and catty to me -- it's sub-tweener-ish, it's puerile, it's Mean Girlish.

Again, ego intervenes: As a man, I prefer to speak to people as a man, and not as a little boy or girl running Mean Girl games on the other kids.

3. I do not believe this tactic is as effective as it appears, because, while not everyone is a great thinker, people are pretty good at detecting when they are being treated dishonestly. Even if they can't name the precise logical fallacies that are being run on them, they recognize them as illogical and therefore dishonest, and also recognize, then, the intended social slight: You are beneath me; you are stupid; this stupid lie I'm telling may appeal to you, because you are so stupid.

The result of these games is, out of every ten runs, two people cowed into submission, three unimpressed, and five now bitter emotional enemies because you ran an exceedingly stupid game on them and thus treated them with palpable contempt.

4. People are also good at sniffing out another form of dishonesty: dishonestly-hidden agendas. These games are frequently dishonest precisely because there are issues the games-runner does not want to discuss at all, and wants to elide over, or even squelch, through his anti-intellectual, social-smothering gamesmaship.

For example, Planned Parenthood, if they were being honest, would probably say something like this about their videos:

"Yes, babies' bodies are torn apart in abortions. What were you morons expecting? Most of you want us to supply the conscience-easing, intellectual slop that these are just "clumps of cells," and so we provide you morons with this obviously-dishonest claim. But if you idiots bothered to think about it, you'd realize that of course abortions result in torn apart bodies.

"But you don't like thinking. You prefer someone else do your thinking for you, and then tell you what you think. Well, we've done that, and now you dare question the manner in which we've done that?

"The babies were ripped apart, obviously, and we spared you this truth, which you did not wish to confront; and now that we have dead baby organs on our hands, which are, sorry to discomfort you non-thinking two-legged animals again, valuable to biotech corporations, what should we do? Just burn them? Well, America is about making a buck, and we're not making our salaries based on giving out free cancer screening, idiots.

"All of this would have been obvious to you if you just bothered to think about it, but you didn't want to, so we protected you from ugly reality.

"You should be thanking us for trying to insulate you from the realities of the world, not questioning us as to why, in this instance, we failed to fully do so."

So that's their honest answer. But they can't say that, because if they did, people might do some of that thinking that people typically don't like doing. People hate thinking, but they may try it when all other options have been closed to them.

So, in order to keep people from knowing the facts and, worse yet, actively thinking about those facts, they Uproar the topic: The video was "heavily edited." It is "misleading." Those people who put that video out are just crazy anti-abortion crusaders who are just crazy about abortion; you don't want to be a crazy person like those crazy people, do you?

Well do you?



Oh, Lena, you have to be pretty to run Alpha Girl dominance games!

Sorry, but for my money, much of this Trump Uproar is of a similar sort: There is a truth that many do not wish to discuss, which is this:

The Establishment is completely in favor of amnesty, but they lie about it because the base isn't.

Furthermore, many people who argue on behalf of the Establishment are themselves pro-amnesty, but will not admit that, because 1, they fear it will diminish their credibility, and 2, they fear having Social Shaming games run on themselves (you dirty RINO Amnestia!).

I can understand that last part -- and the anti-establishment people sure run their own social-mobbing games with aplomb -- but truth is truth and lies are lies, and this bullshit where people who are plainly pro-amnesty won't admit they are is doing nothing but retarding the entire issue.

Look fellas: I know that when people argue with me, they are not motivated by achieving my goals for me. They are motivated primarily by achieving their own goals, not mine, so this eternal claim that "We're just trying to help you do Smart Politics to get what you want" is seen as an obvious deception, and, of course, a contemptuous one, for who would believe that?

I'm not saying the Establishment people are selfish here: of course they seek their own political preferences.

I'm saying just that they are absurdly dishonest in refusing to admit they are seeking their own political preferences, in constantly claiming "Oh no guys we're just acting as unbidden freelance political consultants trying to help you get what you most want."

No you're not. This is dishonest, and everyone understands -- implicitly -- that people are primarily interested in their own agendas, not other people's.

So please, stop telling silly lies that not only reveal you as dishonest, but as holding your rivals in intellectual and social contempt.

I mean, a good lie would be one thing. A good, solidly-built, German-engineered lie; well that kind of lie I could stand back and admire and say, "Wow, now there is a pretty lie with graceful, panther-like lines."

But this childish "I'm just trying to help you not be so dumb" shit?

C'mon. That's contemptuous.

So here's my plea:

Can we just be honest and state our actual preferences, and why we prefer these things, and deal with each other honestly, and with enough respect to admit "I disagree with you on this," instead of perpetually running these primitive, stupid, catty, girlish, undignified, nasty, painful, cruel social-management political campaigns against one another?

The other day I explained why I was pro-choice on the blog. It was not a popular position. Undoubtedly, I lost some credibility with some.

But so what? If I had credibility on this issue only because people didn't know my actual position, then that credibility was falsely had in the first place and I should never have had it at all.

So I lost credibility among pro-life people. Good! That is honest - I honestly should not have had much credibility with them on this issue.

To lose what should have never been mine is hardly a loss.

The conservative movement has some serious disagreements. They cannot all be papered over, as we usually prefer.

The GOP is like an insecure middle class family -- always hiding the very serious issues within in it in order to present a false front of Middle Class Tranquility and Respectability to the outside world.

The schisms in the GOP are now too great for that Put On a Happy Face and Pretend Our Troubles Away act.

There are people who really want to have these issues out, to bring them to the surface, so that we can each be heard, and we can have a real resolution on them.

(Note when I say a "real resolution" I don't mean full agreement, which is impossible; at this point, I must say that a "real resolution" is of course nothing more than a political consensus formed by non-intellectual bean counting. But on the way to this admittedly non-intellectual political settlement, can we at least have an occasional non-political intellectual engagement on the issue?)

But the people who keep attempting to squelch actual problems to Put On a Happy Face aren't advancing a cause -- they are simply delaying the debate which must ultimately be had.

You're just postponing this reckoning until closer to the general election-- when there will not be time for people to get over it and get aligned with the political settlement.

I don't believe in much-- apart from cynicism, I believe in little -- but I do have one sappy sounding, idealistic bit of nonsense I believe in very passionately:

I believe that honesty is, despite its surface defects and all the horrors it appears it might cause, actually the best policy in 95% of situations, no matter what the short-term advantages Lies might seem to have, or Lies' superficial attractiveness.

We have disagreements. I would say we have fairly intense disagreements (though, in historical terms, they're merely "serious," Not cataclysmic).

Let us, in these few months before the full primary season, actually discuss these things honestly and openly, and put off the stupid animal social engineering horseshit as long as we possibly can.

How about we all just say what we really believe, and see how that works for a change?

Posted by: Ace at 06:09 PM




Comments

(Jump to bottom of page)

1 FIRST!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: Michael E. Mann, climatologist at July 17, 2015 06:08 PM (xkSSa)

2 Also, it seems the Pluto thread got demoted to the sidebar. Will Pluto's humiliations never cease?


Now to read the post.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at July 17, 2015 06:10 PM (xSCb6)

3 Willowed.

It seems to me that the lack of attacks on really soft targets, malls,
schools and suchlike (exclude Marathons for the moment) - which one
would think might be the first places they try, makes a lot of sense.
That is to say, if they are acting in a semi-organized way and being
*directed* to some degree by people with brains. And we all know that
while these are savage and vicious people, they are also very diligent,
patient and smart.

An attack on a very soft target such as
described above might just create enough public pressure on
those-who-rule-us to stop the inflow of yet more and more ROP actors
into this country, which they probably want to see happen a little more
than they want successful attacks on soft targets... at this time.

That
is to say, if you have been reading this far, it seems that the lack of
attacks on things like malls and schools and such may well just be part
of th plan, and the Tsarnaevs likely acted against the desires of those
in charge.

Of course, when they have critical mass over here, 5%, 8% 12% who knows, the gloves, as they say, may end up coming off.

Just something I was thinking. That's all.

Posted by: Mr. AR10 at July 17, 2015 06:11 PM (zZyu4)

4 Excluding the more physical ways, such as simply beating that human being with the thigh-bone of an auroch until he rolls into the fetal position of surrender, here are the two main socio-intellectual ways to convince someone of something:


I prefer that way.

Posted by: rickb223 at July 17, 2015 06:12 PM (h6BP/)

5 In fairness, a true airing of the PP affair might have the Christians backlashing against the pagans.

Posted by: Grump928(C) at July 17, 2015 06:13 PM (rwI+c)

6 Is that a movie review?

Posted by: Weasel at July 17, 2015 06:13 PM (e3bId)

7 Test

Posted by: Joey 'Two Chews' Biden at July 17, 2015 06:14 PM (IarJX)

8 Sounds like a good movie, by and large.

Posted by: lurkingestlurker at July 17, 2015 06:14 PM (ASYUV)

9 such as simply beating that human being with the thigh-bone of an auroch until he rolls into the fetal position of surrender

Wait, is that an option?

Posted by: Methos is mainly considering eating the auroch first, with the right sauce at July 17, 2015 06:14 PM (ZbV+0)

10 good ace good

Posted by: joe-impeachin44 at July 17, 2015 06:14 PM (SIR0/)

11 We're probably 5 years away from bona fide Struggle Sessions.


Mao would be thrilled.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at July 17, 2015 06:14 PM (xSCb6)

12 Well said (and said and said and said), ace.

Posted by: Jenny Hates Her Phone at July 17, 2015 06:15 PM (lzx+h)

13 Grape... Hubba... Bubba...supplies... low...

Posted by: Joey 'Two Chews' Biden at July 17, 2015 06:16 PM (IarJX)

14
We left Reason and Rationalism about 4 exits back. We are now committed to the roller coaster ride of emotional blackmail. The question is not, "Is it right?", the question now before our culture is "How does this make me feel?"

Hold on, it's going to be a bumpy ride.

Posted by: Beorn at July 17, 2015 06:17 PM (dGF4J)

15 Honest debate and discussion of a topic from both the left and the right ceased about the same time as that hillbilly gang from Arkansas got elected in 1992. The press/MSM/media types decided they would defend the Clintons no matter what as the thought of going back to anything to do with the Reagan Era left them knowing that they would lose. Conservatism wins every time it is used to debate a leftist which is why they name call, avoid the topic, lie, make up facts and generally behave like Debbie Washerman Shultz. The problem continues to be the Republicants refuse to use core conservative beliefs and try to act as Democrap Lefturd Light.
When they do that they lose EVERY TIME. Viva El Trumpo 2016! He can lie better then the Dems....

Posted by: Hairyback Guy at July 17, 2015 06:17 PM (JG47A)

16 I gather it was a rather long movie.

Posted by: Dang at July 17, 2015 06:17 PM (2oWD2)

17 YOU WANT ME ON THAT WEBSITE. YOU NEED ME ON THAT WEBSITE.

Posted by: News Editor Nathan R. Jessup at July 17, 2015 06:17 PM (rwI+c)

18 In the end, it all comes down to the thigh bone.

Posted by: Grump928(C) at July 17, 2015 06:18 PM (rwI+c)

19 Ace, they're not about fairness, they're about suppression.

Posted by: Pappy O'Daniel at July 17, 2015 06:18 PM (oVJmc)

20 and I can sling a thigh bone at 2800FPS.

Posted by: Grump928(C) at July 17, 2015 06:19 PM (rwI+c)

21 I also note several numbers among the text, and I was told there would be no math.

Posted by: Weasel at July 17, 2015 06:19 PM (e3bId)

22 just got off of a long 80's music set:

aha
tears for fears
rem
eurythmics
crowded house
pet shop boys

big 80's!

so... what's goin' on?

Posted by: steinmetz at July 17, 2015 06:20 PM (CrYC8)

23 The US political establishment is collapsing.

The GOP base has gotten fed up enough to put the least establishment favored candidate on top- Trump- and the left has gotten so fed up that they've decided they can make reality disappear by refusing to report it, or move it to the entertainment section.

Buckle up, because it isn't going to get better anytime soon.

Posted by: Xennady at July 17, 2015 06:20 PM (kh5rI)

24 Is that a movie review?

I think this is the selection we have to read for the book club.

Posted by: first rule of book club at July 17, 2015 06:21 PM (njKyW)

25 Who are you talking to, Ace? The Left ?Well, it's their choice, right? You can want what you want all you want but the person with fewer groundrules gets to the groundrules.

Posted by: Skarp Hedin at July 17, 2015 06:21 PM (KpmUl)

26 1. You can have an honest discussion with him, conducted on an
intellectual, not emotional, not social, plane, in which you both offer
your ideas and your best possible arguments for them.



This is known as "a waste of time."


The best way is not to try to change someone's mind on the spot - which will never happen, because few people have the intellectual honesty and horsepower to do that - but to plant the seed that will lead the person to change his own mind, later.


I find Socratic method especially effective for this. If you ask a question, and if instead of answering reflexively your interlocutor has to stop and think, you're making yardage.

Posted by: Jay Guevara (m sin t + f cos t) at July 17, 2015 06:21 PM (oKE6c)

27 There's not been a five-minute conversation between any two people in the history of the planet that didn't contain half-a-dozen lies. It's who we are; it's what we do.

Posted by: Kate58 at July 17, 2015 06:21 PM (oLZsm)

28 I believe therefore: I am a slave of the Tyranny; that my vote and yours will never count ; that my Faith will be Cause to those opposed to us both to murder me and call it Good; that those supporting Abortion only do so by declaring a human life as a "thing" and do not believe in Liberty; and that such Liberty and Freedom as I believe in will perish for a thousand years of murder and repression.

Posted by: Inspector Cussword at July 17, 2015 06:21 PM (/BV4k)

29 Good post, ace!

The Left can't be honest because they don't want people to see what they really want to do - it's easier to implement their agenda inch by inch, always claiming you just want one teeny, tiny thing and then pretend that this unexpectedly leads to the next teeny, tiny thing. SSM being the prime example - the "surprise" that the day of the SCOTUS decision they started pushing for polygamy after denying that would happen for decades.

Posted by: Lizzy at July 17, 2015 06:22 PM (NOIQH)

30 Link to pro choice thread please?

Posted by: Some Dude at July 17, 2015 06:22 PM (+FSPU)

31 There's not been a five-minute conversation between any two people in the history of the planet that didn't contain half-a-dozen lies. It's who we are; it's what we do.
Posted by: Kate58 at July 17, 2015 06:21 PM (oLZsm)


And those jeans makes your ass look fabulous, BTW.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at July 17, 2015 06:22 PM (V+kmg)

32 I don't think it's possible with something like illegal immigration because there will be no compromise on the issue.

They'll keep lying because to tell the truth and reveal their absolute inflexibility will result in them either losing their positions in office or the party or cause the party to permanently fracture (which will also cost them their offices and positions).

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at July 17, 2015 06:22 PM (oFCZn)

33 2 thumbs up for the review!

Posted by: dfbaskwill at July 17, 2015 06:23 PM (MVitU)

34 #3 "Of course, when they have critical mass over here, 5%, 8% 12% who knows, the gloves, as they say, may end up coming off."

No doubt- and even worse they'll have US citizenship, so we'll be told it's "domestic" terrorism, nothing to do with our muzzie friends at all.

I mean, if we survive it. And since US infrastructure is about as hardened as a grape it's rather too likely we won't.

Posted by: Xennady at July 17, 2015 06:24 PM (kh5rI)

35 If Asterix has taught me correctly, I think aurochs has an 's' at the end.

Posted by: not Rene Goscinny at July 17, 2015 06:24 PM (njKyW)

36 That abortion thread quickly focused on the typical irrelevant argument (when does a human life begin; answer:fertilization) and failed to address the real pertinent question: When as a society do we confer personhood, and the protections that come with it, to a developing life?

That's the real crux of that argument. I may be a pro-life absolutist because of my basic assumptions/beliefs/faith, but I don't think it immediately follows that every argument coming from a different worldview that balances goods differently is automatically to be ignored.

It would be so nice to be able to discuss and argue like adults instead of the screeching poo-flinging that seems to dominate modern conversation.

Posted by: Bivalve Curious at July 17, 2015 06:24 PM (/JdQf)

37 Yeah, that HuffPo treatment of Trump was pretty slimy. Thank goodness this sort of abuse does not take place within climate science.

Posted by: Michael E. Mann, climatologist at July 17, 2015 06:24 PM (xkSSa)

38 Fucking A, Ace. Seeing conservatives applaud HuffPo for relegating Trump to the entertainment section is just sad. I'm no fan of Trump, but he has struck a chord with millions of voters on a very important issue. HuffPo's intent -- and by extension, all of the conservatives who are seal-clapping their move -- is less to marginalize and other-ize Trump, and more to marginalize and other-ize his current supporters.

I expect that from HuffPo. I don't expect it from my political allies.

Posted by: holygoat at July 17, 2015 06:24 PM (t3wLW)

39 If you really want to see technique #2, question whether the academic performance of various groups really results solely from environmental influences.

Posted by: Jay Guevara (m sin t + f cos t) at July 17, 2015 06:25 PM (oKE6c)

40 see the lena dunham tweet i added -- bang, right on schedule.

Posted by: ace at July 17, 2015 06:25 PM (bhepQ)

41 I almost read the whole thing.

Posted by: steevy at July 17, 2015 06:25 PM (sPO3u)

42 Ace was busy while we were making Uranus and Beach Burka jokes.

Posted by: wth at July 17, 2015 06:25 PM (wAQA5)

43 Ace, thanks for that glimpse into your soul. There are a few of your opinions that I don't share, but I thoroughly enjoy this lively and intelligent blog.

Now can we get back to dick jokes please?

Posted by: JohnnyBoy at July 17, 2015 06:25 PM (hk5Mp)

44
I think that statist rump swabs never want an honest and an attempt to be rational discussion. They favor the emotional variety and the more "look at meeee!" Examples that they can cite, the better they think their "argument" is.

The Kardasiann / Jenner clan and their hangers on have been nothing but "Look at meeee!" for a decade now and their sycophants cannot get enough of it.

Nearly all the rest of us are, I think, just tired of it.

Posted by: Krebs v Carnot: Epic Battle of the Cycling Stars(TM) at July 17, 2015 06:25 PM (VLTL9)

45 What are the dividends of people who are so emotionally invested in being right?


Appeals to emotion.


That's why that's all the Left has anymore. That's why you get "compassionate conservatism" and "heartless" from the pro-amnesty side on the Right. They've lost argument after argument, and debate after debate.


And yet they're still winning the war. It's actually not even close.


So what actually works?

Posted by: Burn the Witch at July 17, 2015 06:25 PM (xSCb6)

46 Stop calling this behavior girlish and junior high. That's an insult to tweener girls. Not all men settle disputes with fisticuffs then retreat to the pub with a hail-fellow-well-met punch in the arm and a pint. There are a lot of backstabbing and passive-aggressive dicks out there.

Posted by: All Hail Eris, Freak Flag Flyin' at July 17, 2015 06:25 PM (jR7Wy)

47
Skim-read fast as I could, ace.

Just a few small things.

Amnesty supporters won't be "shamed", they'll be annihilated with common sense and facts. Oh, and a basic sense of fairness. Amnesty is an indefensibly stupid idea, without any serious supporting arguments. It's a disaster for the US, for the rule of law, for the economy, for public finance, for civic culture, for American culture (such as it remains), and for national security. And obviously so.

It's also a disaster for Mexico and Central American countries. Why, the not-very-bright (more on that in a second) amnesty supporters would ask, their small brains overwhelmed? Because mass illegal immigration is a key factor retarding faster development of Mexico and especially erosion of its vile and toxic class system, a safety valve that not only undercuts pressure for positive change, but papers over economic under-achievement with remittances (essentially forced savings from a labor force whose costs are borne outside the national economy).

ace, luv ya, but you are way over-thinking and over-determining almost all of this. The people in question (amnesty supporters, people who would ever look at Salon or Slate or whichever vacuous adolescent blog did the stupid Trump stunt) *are not that smart* - they are, in fact, dumb enough, ignorant enough, that they are helping drag the US downward and backward.

Why doesn't someone ask whichever high school blog it was that did the Trump stunt if they're going to put Hillary coverage in their crime section, and Obama's speeches in whatever passes for their comics or cartoon sections?




Posted by: rhomboid at July 17, 2015 06:25 PM (QDnY+)

48 So ALL our politics are reduced to the level of #GamerGate and the Hugo Awards fight... it's ALL about clout and rice bowls nothing more.

Posted by: Richard McEnroe at July 17, 2015 06:26 PM (Kucy5)

49 Ace: "How about we all just say what we really believe, and see how that works for a change?"

OK. If you insist:

Pluto is indeed a planet.

There. I said it. Not taking it back.

Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at July 17, 2015 06:26 PM (1CroS)

50 Just remember the type of chucklehead making editorial decisions at HuffPost: young, inexperienced, intentionally ignorant -yet- highly opinionated Senior Political Economy Reporter Zach Carter.

http://www.hughhewitt.com/embarrass-journalists/

Posted by: Lizzy at July 17, 2015 06:26 PM (NOIQH)

51 Hey there tiger, slow down a bit.

Posted by: Barrels of Ink at July 17, 2015 06:26 PM (C+Q5F)

52 see the lena dunham tweet i added -- bang, right on schedule.
Posted by: ace at July 17, 2015 06:25 PM (bhepQ)


Her plea to consider the source is most cromulent.

This is also why I don't take advice of any kind from rape-hoaxers looking to goose sales on their book.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at July 17, 2015 06:27 PM (V+kmg)

53 >>> Stop calling this behavior girlish and junior high. That's an insult to tweener girls. Not all men settle disputes with fisticuffs then retreat to the pub with a hail-fellow-well-met punch in the arm and a pint. There are a lot of backstabbing and passive-aggressive dicks out there.

i'll seriously consider changing it to "childish"

Posted by: ace at July 17, 2015 06:27 PM (bhepQ)

54

at this point I realize no one is ever going to deport all the illegals that are currently here

ever

that will never happen

only one of them is promising to finally finally build a fence and deport new ones

one

his name is Trump

I will take what I can get. I dont even like him but he is the only one talking about actually stoppong or slowing immigration

and I dont even trust or like him but I don't trust or like any of them

Posted by: ThunderB at July 17, 2015 06:27 PM (zOTsN)

55 there aint no point in discussing methods of argument with these people; the country club RINOs are just as much traitors as the democong, even if there are different reasons for the treasons.

the point is the treason.

Posted by: Grad School Fool at July 17, 2015 06:27 PM (A9KzJ)

56 I miss the Auroch. They were delicious. All dark meat.

Posted by: Cave Man Bob at July 17, 2015 06:27 PM (BjKDP)

57 Need to pull a Perry on Lena:

"So...you good with what you saw on the tape?"

Posted by: Lizzy at July 17, 2015 06:28 PM (NOIQH)

58 are you pushing a rope, ace?

seems likely that the shaming style of argument is the only one possible on the net. the persuasive kind has been relegated to face to face, IMHO.

Posted by: Bigby's Knuckle Sandwich at July 17, 2015 06:28 PM (Cq0oW)

59 >>>I'm saying just that they are absurdly dishonest in refusing to admit they are seeking their own political preferences, in constantly claiming "Oh no guys we're just acting as unbidden freelance political consultants trying to help you get what you most want."

Well let's be honest then. My agenda is, in no particular order.

1. Hunt
2. Fish
3. Raise little mooses
4. Fly
5. Live in the country.
6. Have a great marriage.
7. Have meaningful relationships with my family.
8. Brew and drink beer.
9. Die and go to Heaven.

I am upset that the world as it is requires as much of my attention as it does for political ends instead of allowing me to focus on my agenda. To the extent I am forwarding my "political preferences" it has little to do with "my agenda" and more to do with doing what I think is right for the world for the sake of the future that I don't *need* to fixed for my own agenda.

If you approach someone's political preferences from the charitable view that this, after careful consideration and reflection, is what they think is not only well represented in fact, theology and philosophy, but also best for humanity for humanity's sake, you'll do a lot better than assuming we are here for our own entertainment and enjoyment.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose at July 17, 2015 06:28 PM (0q2P7)

60 Not all men settle disputes with fisticuffs then retreat to the pub with a hail-fellow-well-met punch in the arm and a pint. There are a lot of backstabbing and passive-aggressive dicks out there.
Posted by: All Hail Eris, Freak Flag Flyin' at July 17, 2015 06:25 PM (jR7Wy)


This is why you have a well-stocked dungeon, yes?

Posted by: Sean Bannion at July 17, 2015 06:28 PM (V+kmg)

61 Persuasion Method Number 2: Favored by Fascists and Totalitarians world wide! Now coming to the US of A!

Posted by: Brendan at July 17, 2015 06:29 PM (8YVZT)

62 Discuss things honestly? When your debate opponents argue men are women and white is black?

Are you serious?

Posted by: Give me a break at July 17, 2015 06:29 PM (beJFh)

63 i changed some references about it being about girls.

i kept 'catty" and "Meangirlish" having no sex-neutral alternatives.

Posted by: ace at July 17, 2015 06:29 PM (bhepQ)

64

OT update to New Jersey Paintballer Club

it appears that since Jun 29 there have been paint ball attacks on Orthodox Jews in Brooklyn and Staten Island and it looks like these are the same people

if they are form NJ

its time for the Fat Man to sing

Posted by: ThunderB at July 17, 2015 06:29 PM (zOTsN)

65 Lena Dunham would just love having oodles of abortions, so she'll have to start visiting the local sperm bank, cuz nobody could get a chubby for her.

Posted by: wth at July 17, 2015 06:29 PM (wAQA5)

66 maybe humanity really is just a bunch of monkies and this is the best they can do.

Posted by: joe-impeachin44 at July 17, 2015 06:29 PM (SIR0/)

67 Robert Reich, I believe, actually made a speech along these lines before a college on the topic of socialized medicine, saying things like of course your health care will be worse than your parents had, and of curse there will be supply restrictions. No politician would ever say this because he would not be elected.

The audience LAUGHED. He told them he was laying hard truth on them and they weren't intelligent enough to realize it wasn't a joke.

Posted by: Emile Antoon Khadaji at July 17, 2015 06:29 PM (+iI+u)

68
Teh Ewok hated the movie. Even the volcano scene.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at July 17, 2015 06:30 PM (egLDQ)

69 see the lena dunham tweet i added -- bang, right on schedule.

Posted by: ace



A Tweet? Shit just got real. Not just anyone can Tweet shit.

Sorry, Ace, but I think that paying attention to that shit is a huge part of the problem. You just promoted that pathetic insestuous fat ass bitch. She loves it.

Posted by: Dang at July 17, 2015 06:30 PM (2oWD2)

70 By the way, Ace - You do know that these opinions you hold confirm that you are extremely optimistic compared to most, right? You're like nearly giddy with glee compared to me, for example.

Always remember - your sunny outlook is like mainlining cocaine on a roller coaster surrounded by half-clothed strippers compared to how a lot of us feel.

So... you got that goin' for ya.

Posted by: Inspector Cussword at July 17, 2015 06:30 PM (/BV4k)

71 American men are pussies, forget it. And call a cop if you're bullied.

Posted by: redenzo at July 17, 2015 06:30 PM (WCnJW)

72 "Consider the source"?

It's VIDEO!

When someone says "consider the source" they just want to bail out of the argument.

If something is incontrovertible, then just attack the "crazy web site" that it's on.

Yeah. Brilliant.

Posted by: RKae at July 17, 2015 06:31 PM (P0wPL)

73 I believe that honesty is, despite its surface defects and all the horrors it appears it might cause, actually the best policy in 95% of situations, no matter what the short-term advantages Lies might seem to have, or Lies' superficial attractiveness.


I'll go even further.... our modern society is built on cooperation. We must cooperate, as each of us is not self sufficient... and in fact is way more dependent on others than our forefathers were.

Lies destroy the ability to cooperate. They destroy the very trust we need to run this technical civilization we have built.

And I see the precipice before us... as the Lemmings continue towards the cliff, led by our own Government.... who CONSTANTLY lies to us without consequence.

Posted by: BB Wolf at July 17, 2015 06:32 PM (qh617)

74 >>it appears that since Jun 29 there have been paint ball attacks on Orthodox Jews in Brooklyn and Staten Island and it looks like these are the same people


Two words: Hate Crime.
Why is this not national news?

Posted by: Lizzy at July 17, 2015 06:32 PM (NOIQH)

75 Let me know when the Blu-ray releases because based on this review it sounds pretty good.

Posted by: Brenden at July 17, 2015 06:32 PM (wa+SP)

76 The first time I sharpened the thigh bone of Auroch and hit Thak on that big assed forehead of his, he went down like a dodo and started flopping around like a hagfish. Good times.

Posted by: Cave Man Bob at July 17, 2015 06:33 PM (BjKDP)

77 Dunham, and most of the Left, is dumb enough to think that hating the messenger disproves the message.

Posted by: Pappy O'Daniel at July 17, 2015 06:33 PM (oVJmc)

78 Politicians are trained from job-infancy to dissemble and won't be able to change.

The press and cultural institutions are what are really at issue here: can we get the press to be more honest about their overwhelming bias and monolithic socialist nature? Not a single one of them is interested in profit. Fox used to be, but then the Justice Department started investigating Roger Ailes and Murdoch's issues in England endangered some of his News Corp assets here, so they obviously made a deal.

Universities, like the press, do not permit conservatives to exist in undergraduate education. The best schools are the most monolithic and anti-conservative. I went to a school where a bunch of followers of a famous conservative, Leo Strauss, ran the History and Government departments but all those professors are gone. Only leftists are there now. Dartmouth, where one of my kids went to school, had many famously conservative faculty members and Trustees until the University and its alums sued each other and the University successfully eliminated the alumni-elected Trustees. Presto! No more conservatives. The Ivy Leagues is entirely Left now.

We need to root out the socialists. It must become a virtue again to be anti-totalitarian. Make them unemployable.

Posted by: Marie Harf at July 17, 2015 06:33 PM (DkJ4E)

79 about a dozen attacks since Jue 29

all on orthodox Jews

nasty bruises, aiming for the head

some to girls young as 14 or 15

some to old men

Posted by: ThunderB at July 17, 2015 06:33 PM (zOTsN)

80 Sorry about the residual Harf sock

Posted by: MTF at July 17, 2015 06:34 PM (DkJ4E)

81 Is anyone printing this material and hiding it a cave for our descendants rebuilding civilization to read hundreds or even thousands of years from now?

Posted by: Weasel at July 17, 2015 06:34 PM (e3bId)

82

ace, you're absolutely right, but this is something I can never understand. All I do is talk about things straightforwardly (not obnoxiously, I do have tact and some breeding), but this ability to lie, really something I just don't have. Setting aside the DC people who I expect to lie about amnesty, are people really always lying? Mostly it seems they are stupid and easily misled. But active lying is a possibility.

Posted by: imp at July 17, 2015 06:34 PM (0RezW)

83 honestly: we tell you we are going to build a fence and deport people, because we want to do all that, but we want most illegal immigrants to become legal migrants/guest workers who can gain citizenship over time. We don't mention the amnesty part, because it sounds like we are being unfair and dishonest. The truth is that we are just trying to maintain the stupid laws that you idiots overwhelmingly vote for that forbid paying an Americans low wages. Because you are too good to work for some arbitrary amount, and too good to pay the high prices that results in, we are trying to let you have your cake and eat it too. There is no way to rectify your stupid policy preferences for making American labor unaffordable with your love of convenience and cheap goods without bringing in someone to pick up the slack. It would be best to do all this by law, so our borders and immigration could be tightly regulated and controlled, but you are too stupid to allow this, so it's all maintained (for your stupid sakes) illegally, by fiat and discretion. When one of our low-hanging members dares utter part of this truth, you get very indignant and start chanting about walls. Until you even acknowledge any of these truths about the economic root causes of illegal immigration, we will consider you you uneducated or unthinking and will tend to dismiss your concerns as myopic.

Posted by: Albert Lorrigan at July 17, 2015 06:36 PM (TqbUH)

84 53
>>> Stop calling this behavior girlish and junior high. That's
an insult to tweener girls. Not all men settle disputes with fisticuffs
then retreat to the pub with a hail-fellow-well-met punch in the arm and
a pint. There are a lot of backstabbing and passive-aggressive dicks
out there.



i'll seriously consider changing it to "childish"




Whaaaaaaaaat???? This is a joke right, Ace? You are punking out to the first SJW bullshit social shaming attack you get after writing about how you think that is bullshit? Damn it, man. Damn it.

Posted by: Skarp Hedin at July 17, 2015 06:36 PM (KpmUl)

85 I think some positions are best treated with the scorn they deserve. If you have a chance to actually open a mind, sure, go ahead and try the Bill Whittle approach. But the Lena Dunham's deserve only scorn, mockery and social approbation. It is the only stimulus that gets results.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at July 17, 2015 06:36 PM (tB/Si)

86 Can we just be honest and state our actual preferences, and why we prefer these things, and deal with each other honestly, and with enough respect to admit "I disagree with you on this," instead of perpetually running these primitive, stupid, catty, girlish, undignified, nasty, painful, cruel social-management political campaigns against one another?

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!

Posted by: Saul Alinsky at July 17, 2015 06:36 PM (qkRol)

87 This is why you have a well-stocked dungeon, yes?
Posted by: Sean Bannion at July 17, 2015 06:28 PM (V+kmg)
---
Some folks just need floggin'.

Posted by: All Hail Eris, Freak Flag Flyin' at July 17, 2015 06:36 PM (jR7Wy)

88 >>about a dozen attacks since June 29

They've been pushing the false story of black church burnings, yet this is a true epidemic of hate crime - very targeted.

Posted by: Lizzy at July 17, 2015 06:37 PM (NOIQH)

89 Ironic how Lena is the greatest advertisement there is for abortion. If only...

Posted by: gewa76 at July 17, 2015 06:37 PM (S9rS1)

90
The first time I sharpened the thigh bone of Auroch and hit Thak on that big assed forehead of his, he went down like a dodo and started flopping around like a hagfish. Good times.
Posted by: Cave Man Bob at July 17, 2015 06:33 PM (BjKDP)
............................
Ugh. Thak good friend. This mean war.

Posted by: Ugh the Caveman at July 17, 2015 06:37 PM (wAQA5)

91 Why no honesty? You answered your own question, boss. Because people care more about outcomes than process and principle. How to change this? Reward the latter more than the former. Not sure how that'd work.

Posted by: Feh at July 17, 2015 06:37 PM (Uk9e2)

92 I guess HuffPo forgets that more people read the Entertainment Section of their website than the political one.

.. and that half of their political opinions are from entertainers.

My guess? Once Trump's numbers go up, HuffPo will put him in the Astrology section And his numbers will still climb.

At which point Trump goes back into the Politics section

Posted by: BumperStickerist at July 17, 2015 06:38 PM (0MJOU)

93 Sorry, Ace, will never happen. Facts and reality never, EVER intersect with Leftist Dogma. That's why all the "shut up, that's why!" responses to things like this ghoulish fetal body parts video, or human-created Climate Change, or Obamacare.

A real discussion, with facts, would result in the Left losing. Every time. And neither they nor the Media will allow that.

When and if facts are allowed in, I will welcome it. But I am skeptical it will happen anytime soon. That being said, it is an excellent thing to aspire to. I hope it happens sooner rather than later.

Posted by: acethepug at July 17, 2015 06:38 PM (WK825)

94 OK, do we even have a cave picked out? Sheesh!

Posted by: Weasel at July 17, 2015 06:38 PM (e3bId)

95 I love a good rant.

Posted by: I. Dindoo Nuffin at July 17, 2015 06:38 PM (5fSr7)

96 No, srsly, I accept die Fragestellung you pose, you NE Loyalist types.
Those who think maybe Iran and the child-fuckers might have a point need to be refuted with logic....
Temporary marriages, like the Iranian power-elite, and ours, currently, practice, will lead to a Jewish Prince as head of state and therefore social justice, 'n' all.
English Common Law?
Dood, will that get you an underage sex partner?!?
No.
You have to choose sides now.

Posted by: Loyalist Gene at July 17, 2015 06:38 PM (empCI)

97 Lena Dunham : consider the horse. Of course of course.

Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at July 17, 2015 06:38 PM (W5DcG)

98 >>Ironic how Lena is the greatest advertisement there is for abortion. If only...


She is a very big booster of PP. She incorporated PP fundraising into her book tour (arranged by her lesbian activist sister) so that each stop was a paid ticket event w/some/all? proceeds going to PP.
Given that, shouldn't she be asked her opinion on what was discussed on the tape? Not just glib tweets or brushoffs.

Posted by: Lizzy at July 17, 2015 06:40 PM (NOIQH)

99 >>>Whaaaaaaaaat???? This is a joke right, Ace? You are punking out to the first SJW bullshit social shaming attack you get after writing about how you think that is bullshit? Damn it, man. Damn it.

i think it's girlish, but she has a point: I see a lot of men pulling this silly shit.

That's actually why I kept calling it girlish; to shame the MEN who keep doing it.

but it gives offense, and it's not quite fair, and on top of it all, it's a bonus example of that social shaming thing i'm writing about, so... easy enough to change.

(Though i'm not sure an appeal to honor or manhood is the sort of thing I object to when i talk of "shaming," any more than telling people to stop telling lies is an example of such "shaming.")

Posted by: ace at July 17, 2015 06:40 PM (bhepQ)

100 Posted by: Loyalist Gene at July 17, 2015 06:38 PM (empCI)

That was some authentic frontier gibberish right there.

Posted by: Howard Johnson at July 17, 2015 06:40 PM (V+kmg)

101
Is anyone printing this material and hiding it a cave for our descendants rebuilding civilization to read hundreds or even thousands of years from now?
Posted by: Weasel at July 17, 2015 06:34 PM (e3bId)
...................................
If they are I hope it includes a complete list of King Barry's nicknames.

Posted by: wth at July 17, 2015 06:41 PM (wAQA5)

102 Oh, as for pro-choice? No worries, that's your call. I would allow for a very narrow choice option, I won't impose my religious belief that all abortion is murder because, to those who do not share my faith, they cannot and will not accept it. I think rape and health of the mother are sufficient (all IMHO).

But I don't hate you, or think any more (or less) of you, lil' Ewok-dude. You give this little puggie a place to come visit -- I appreciate that very much.

Posted by: acethepug at July 17, 2015 06:41 PM (WK825)

103 Can we just be honest and state our actual preferences, and why we prefer these things, and deal with each other honestly, and with enough respect to admit "I disagree with you on this," instead of perpetually running these primitive, stupid, catty, girlish, undignified, nasty, painful, cruel social-management political campaigns against one another?

Honest discussions will get you fired, bullied, and ostracized from society if your honest opinion is not the pre-determined correct one.

Posted by: The Political Hat at July 17, 2015 06:42 PM (7YlUk)

104 40 see the lena dunham tweet i added -- bang, right on schedule.

Posted by: ace at July 17, 2015 06:25 PM (bhepQ)


Like it got mentioned on the Podcast with Meghan Kelly having that DNC hack on and Dana Loesch calling him out. What was out of context what was edited? They released the entire video recording for viewing as well. They really think that saying that is all that is needed and no proof is required.

Oh and speaking of your #2 method of persuasion where you refuse to allow the opposing side any legitimacy. Did Fox ever put up that video of Megyn Kelly kicking ass on the murder of the woman in San Fran by the illegal alien?

Posted by: buzzion at July 17, 2015 06:42 PM (zt+N6)

105 Lena Dunham and Planned Parenthood and Hillary! Clinton and the rest of the progressive left do not want to have any kind of a discussion, much less an honest one, and it is fruitless to ask them to do so. They're not interested in discussion, all they're interested in is power and acquiring more power. Words mean nothing to them except as they can be used as tools to attack their enemies (that would be us) and to acquire more power.

Posted by: OregonMuse at July 17, 2015 06:42 PM (qkRol)

106
I love a good rant.
Posted by: I. Dindoo Nuffin at July 17, 2015 06:38 PM (5fSr7)
..............................
You spelled riot wrong.

Posted by: wth at July 17, 2015 06:42 PM (wAQA5)

107 A man has to believe in something and I believe I will have another drink.

Posted by: Jukin, Former Republican at July 17, 2015 06:43 PM (TV9BR)

108
Can I honestly say I want to see his?

AlienTampon: https://goo.gl/eSNr3b

Posted by: Bruce With a Wang! at July 17, 2015 06:43 PM (iQIUe)

109 past #100, so we're good to go to boobs, correct?

Posted by: Weasel at July 17, 2015 06:43 PM (e3bId)

110 I fully support aborting Lena Dunham in the 119th trimester of her life.

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at July 17, 2015 06:43 PM (oFCZn)

111 about a dozen attacks since Jue 29

all on orthodox Jews

nasty bruises, aiming for the head

some to girls young as 14 or 15

some to old men


Would my heart ever bleed if these punks ran into somebody who was carrying.

Posted by: gewa76 at July 17, 2015 06:44 PM (S9rS1)

112 A man has to believe in something and I believe I will have another drink.

Posted by: Jukin, Former Republican at July 17, 2015 06:43 PM (TV9BR)




Obligatory: https://youtu.be/2JgFiK2nQew

Posted by: Country Singer at July 17, 2015 06:45 PM (nL0sw)

113 96

Source your quotes and stop chopping all of them up without line breaks. It looked like all your quotations were one long string of nonsense. Funny, but confusing.

Let me guess - it all came from DU and Stormfront?

Posted by: Inspector Cussword at July 17, 2015 06:45 PM (/BV4k)

114 Whaaaaaaaaat???? This is a joke right, Ace? You are punking out to the first SJW bullshit social shaming attack you get after writing about how you think that is bullshit? Damn it, man. Damn it.
Posted by: Skarp Hedin at July 17, 2015 06:36 PM (KpmUl)
----
Ace bows to no (wo)man, and I'm certainly not a Social Justice Shamer.

Posted by: All Hail Eris, Freak Flag Flyin' at July 17, 2015 06:45 PM (jR7Wy)

115 109 past #100, so we're good to go to boobs, correct?

Posted by: Weasel at July 17, 2015 06:43 PM (e3bId)


There's a non-good kind in the post.

Posted by: buzzion at July 17, 2015 06:45 PM (zt+N6)

116 Will I vote for Trump? No.
Can he win? Maybe.
obama's re-election proved anything is possible.

Posted by: Darth Randall at July 17, 2015 06:45 PM (6n332)

117 107 A man has to believe in something and I believe I will have another drink.

*hic*

Cheers!

*wobbles a bit*

Posted by: Foster Brooks at July 17, 2015 06:45 PM (RwwCT)

118 @100 THANK YOU!!
Always nice to hear from the monoglot Loyalist/Bush camp.

Posted by: Loyalist Gene at July 17, 2015 06:45 PM (empCI)

119 fwiw - the soon-to-be-exhumed Nathan Bedford Forrest had a solution when his the

"I have stood your meanness as long as I intend to. You have played the part of a damned scoundrel, and are a coward, and if you were any part of a man I would slap your jaws and force you to resent it.

You may as well not issue any more orders to me, for I will not obey them, and I will hold you personally responsible for any further indignities you endeavor to inflict upon me. You have threatened to arrest me for not obeying your orders promptly.

I dare you to do it, and I say to you that if you ever again try to interfere with me or cross my path it will be at the peril of your life." General Forrest to General Braxton Bragg.

... needs a bit of updating, but not much.

Posted by: BumperStickerist at July 17, 2015 06:46 PM (0MJOU)

120 115 you mean hidden up there in all of the words and math?

Posted by: Weasel at July 17, 2015 06:46 PM (e3bId)

121 There's also argument by good example, which creates a virtue bandwagon. I'd guess that'll get you 5%.

Of course, you could be honest purely for reasons of integrity and self-respect, but such things are attacked from all sides, even from within.

Posted by: Feh at July 17, 2015 06:47 PM (Uk9e2)

122 Ace bows to no (wo)man, and I'm certainly not a Social Justice Shamer.

Posted by: All Hail Eris, Freak Flag Flyin' at July 17, 2015 06:45 PM (jR7Wy)


And you might stab him with an edged weapon if he doesn't listen to you.

Posted by: buzzion at July 17, 2015 06:47 PM (zt+N6)

123
109
Fire away. And don't forget Uranus.

Posted by: wth at July 17, 2015 06:47 PM (wAQA5)

124 @100 THANK YOU!!
Always nice to hear from the monoglot Loyalist/Bush camp.
Posted by: Loyalist Gene at July 17, 2015 06:45 PM (empCI)


Moar caps! MOAR CAPS!!!

Posted by: Howard Johnson at July 17, 2015 06:48 PM (V+kmg)

125
One of the biggest traits of the left is an inability to face reality. They really don't care about the truth, especially if it doesn't make them feel good about themselves.
They seek power partly so they can shut up the people who dare to try and inject reality into their world.
My moonbat brother when his car brok down:
"It can't be broken, I have things to do."

Posted by: Tilikum Killer Assault Whale at July 17, 2015 06:48 PM (LWWrf)

126 99
>>>Whaaaaaaaaat???? This is a joke right, Ace? You are punking
out to the first SJW bullshit social shaming attack you get after
writing about how you think that is bullshit? Damn it, man. Damn it.



i think it's girlish, but she has a point: I see a lot of men pulling this silly shit.



That's actually why I kept calling it girlish; to shame the MEN who keep doing it.



but it gives offense, and it's not quite fair, and on top of it all,
it's a bonus example of that social shaming thing i'm writing about,
so... easy enough to change.



(Though i'm not sure an appeal to honor or manhood is the sort of
thing I object to when i talk of "shaming," any more than telling people
to stop telling lies is an example of such "shaming.")


Dude. Read your damn article again. You are submitting to social shaming. You are right. You spoke well. Do not back down. Do not tiptoe. Be a MAN. It is ok. You will not get hurt or die. It is ok to offend people. It is ok to call out adults for acting like bitchy little tweener girls. You are fine. Stand up.

Posted by: Skarp Hedin at July 17, 2015 06:48 PM (KpmUl)

127 (Though i'm not sure an appeal to honor or manhood is the sort of thing I object to when i talk of "shaming," any more than telling people to stop telling lies is an example of such "shaming.")
Posted by: ace at July 17, 2015 06:40 PM (bhepQ)
---
Appealing to honor and manhood is showing the utmost respect to your opponent because it says you see them as a responsible adult.

Posted by: All Hail Eris, Freak Flag Flyin' at July 17, 2015 06:48 PM (jR7Wy)

128 And you might stab him with an edged weapon if he doesn't listen to you.
Posted by: buzzion at July 17, 2015 06:47 PM (zt+N6)


Ummmmm, I think she'll be using another type of weapon.

Jus sayin

Posted by: Sean Bannion at July 17, 2015 06:48 PM (V+kmg)

129 120 115 you mean hidden up there in all of the words and math?

Posted by: Weasel at July 17, 2015 06:46 PM (e3bId)


No. Lena Dunham. She's a boob. Not the good kind.

Posted by: buzzion at July 17, 2015 06:49 PM (zt+N6)

130 DO NOT GO DOWN THEIR RABBIT HOLE.

Your instincts are correct.

Ignore their shaming.

Posted by: Skarp Hedin at July 17, 2015 06:49 PM (KpmUl)

131 Re: The Dunham tweet--
And who's defending and standing with PP? A discredited individual who admitted "sexually experimenting" with a younger sibling.

Posted by: dave at July 17, 2015 06:49 PM (8uzdZ)

132 I mourn the lost Uranus thread.

Posted by: Weasel at July 17, 2015 06:49 PM (e3bId)

133 ~/ Glove Slap,
Baby, Glove Slap,

Glove Slap,
Baby, Glove Slap /~

Posted by: Homer J. Simpson at July 17, 2015 06:50 PM (0MJOU)

134 79

Just a good old-fashioned Muslim American family past-time!

Posted by: wow at July 17, 2015 06:50 PM (mvuew)

135
Can we just be honest and state our actual preferences



We ARE honest -- to our well heeled donors and the political taste-makers whose approval we so avidly seek. Many a soul searching conversation has been had over champagne and caviar served on folded $100 bills.

But you rabble? To the extent we deign to acknowledge you at all, you are mere chattel to be instructed. Know your place and pull the lever every other November, you laborers.

And next time, use the trade entrance at back. This is a respectable neighborhood.

Posted by: The GOP

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at July 17, 2015 06:50 PM (kdS6q)

136 Appealing to honor and manhood is showing the utmost respect to your opponent because it says you see them as a responsible adult.
Posted by: All Hail Eris, Freak Flag Flyin' at July 17, 2015 06:48 PM (jR7Wy)


Haven't been on Twitter lately, have you?

Posted by: Sean Bannion at July 17, 2015 06:50 PM (V+kmg)

137 Ace, 80% of this society never really made it out of kindergarten. Persuasion is not in the cards, all they'll ever know I hair-pulling, cutdowns and comebacks.

Posted by: bernverdnardo at July 17, 2015 06:50 PM (WhfU/)

138 Dude. Read your damn article again. You are submitting to social shaming. You are right. You spoke well. Do not back down. Do not tiptoe. Be a MAN. It is ok. You will not get hurt or die. It is ok to offend people. It is ok to call out adults for acting like bitchy little tweener girls. You are fine. Stand up.

---

No, he's listening to another person's honest, clearly-stated critique and honestly considering her perspective. You, on the other hand, don't want to think and argue honestly and instead are using lazy-ass buzzwords like SJW to neatly and thoughtlessly categorize things

Posted by: Jenny Hates Her Phone at July 17, 2015 06:51 PM (lzx+h)

139 >>>
Dude. Read your damn article again. You are submitting to social shaming. You are right. You spoke well. Do not back down. Do not tiptoe. Be a MAN. It is ok. You will not get hurt or die. It is ok to offend people. It is ok to call out adults for acting like bitchy little tweener girls. You are fine. Stand up.

not to get in a ridiculous shame circle, but if what she did was shaming, you are now equally "shaming' me.

come on, the principle has a limit. People saying 'I object to this' is not, of itself, shaming.

Otherwise we can't disagree with each other, which is preposterous.

Social shaming requires *a multiparty coordinated effort.*

Eris objecting, as a single person, cannot be "social shaming," as there is no society there -- she is just one person.

Posted by: ace at July 17, 2015 06:51 PM (bhepQ)

140 *rests case*

Posted by: Loyalist Gene at July 17, 2015 06:51 PM (empCI)

141
I mourn the lost Uranus thread.
Posted by: Weasel at July 17, 2015 06:49 PM (e3bId)
...........................
You lost Uranus?

Posted by: wth at July 17, 2015 06:52 PM (wAQA5)

142 Lena Dunham and boob in the same sentence makes me want to become a homo.

Posted by: Weasel at July 17, 2015 06:52 PM (e3bId)

143 obama's re-election proved anything is possible.
Posted by: Darth Randall at July 17, 2015 06:45 PM (6n332)
---
Heard an Obama fan at work say "There's NO WAY somebody like Trump, with his lack of experience, could be elected to the presidency!".

But I bite my tongue, because this is an otherwise upstanding and intelligent fellow.

Posted by: All Hail Eris, Freak Flag Flyin' at July 17, 2015 06:52 PM (jR7Wy)

144 >>And who's defending and standing with PP? A discredited individual who admitted "sexually experimenting" with a younger sibling.

And who slandered a college classmate with a ridiculous "rape" story of drunk/drugged up regret sex. And still refuses to clear his name despite the publisher changing the text that implied e was the "rapist."

Posted by: Lizzy at July 17, 2015 06:52 PM (NOIQH)

145
"You can run a series of social-hierarchy, social-shaming political games against the person you wish to convince; you can ostracize him, setting him away from the group, alone and afraid, to be ritually mocked by the group until his humiliation and desire to end the torment of social pain compels him to confess a (coerced) agreement with you."
The hell you say!

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo Goldstein at July 17, 2015 06:52 PM (YJeFl)

146 >>>Ace, 80% of this society never really made it out of kindergarten. Persuasion is not in the cards, all they'll ever know I hair-pulling, cutdowns and comebacks.

i know. I think the secret reason social media is popular is everyone kind of hates having left the 7th grade, and consider that to have been the first major error of their lives.

Social media permits a reversion to 7th grade, and people seem to like it.

Posted by: ace at July 17, 2015 06:53 PM (bhepQ)

147 It's funny. I don't kill anyone or try to shame anyone into believing the way I believe, although I'm not above making fun of them if their views are inconsistent or just plain stupid. But, because I think dismembering not quite standalone human beings is murder and selling leftover parts is barbaric and that men have that pesky y chromosome and women do not and that people should be able to turn away business if they don't feel they can put their hearts or even their best efforts into their work because of a conflict with their beliefs, I am labeled an extremist or a hater or a bigot or some other thing that I really am not. And I'm okay with that.

Wait, fuck that. I'm not okay with that. I'm right.

Posted by: huerfano at July 17, 2015 06:53 PM (bynk/)

148 not to get in a ridiculous shame circle, but if what she did was shaming, you are now equally "shaming' me.



What in the ever loving fuck is happening here?

Posted by: Dang at July 17, 2015 06:53 PM (2oWD2)

149 Also, the progressive left will NEVER state what they truly believe or what their true preferences are. If they did, they would never win, in fact, they would probably be run out of town on a rail. So they must obfuscate, lie, and slander those who disagree with them. That's the only way they can implement their agenda.

Posted by: OregonMuse at July 17, 2015 06:53 PM (qkRol)

150 141 well, figuratively speaking, we all lost our anii.

Posted by: Weasel at July 17, 2015 06:54 PM (e3bId)

151
That's a hella lot of words to say the HuffPo argues like Eric Cartman.

Posted by: Ed Anger at July 17, 2015 06:54 PM (RcpcZ)

152 I agree. The Trump thing strikes me as petty.

That said, I don't think any liberal actually believes you guys are going to nominate Donald Trump. (And they would LOVE it if you did.) So I don't think there's a whole lot of gamesmanship to this. I think people legitimately find his comments about Mexicans (for example) to be offensive and they don't want to give this joker a bigger platform than he deserves.

I mean, are you really going to nominate Donald Trump?! Please tell me that you are.

Posted by: seattle slough at July 17, 2015 06:54 PM (mCz8+)

153 I believe in God the Father, and in Jesus Christ, His begotten Son. I believe in the Holy Spirit. I believe in the forgiveness of sins and resurrection from the dead. I believe in Christ's return to earth to consummate human history. When I remember this, I believe that little else matters.

I believe honesty is a good start.

Posted by: RedWhiteandTrue at July 17, 2015 06:54 PM (sd5lN)

154
Ace I believe the difference between #1 and #2 was described by Aristotle as the difference between Dialectic and Rhetoric.
Although he believed that some people are inherently incapable of being swayed by dialectic.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo Goldstein at July 17, 2015 06:54 PM (YJeFl)

155 >>>That's a hella lot of words to say the HuffPo argues like Eric Cartman.


i'd like to become the White Ta-Nehisi Coates

Posted by: ace at July 17, 2015 06:55 PM (bhepQ)

156 You've framed the debate as Trump and his supporters vs "The Establishment." That's ridiculous. To use your own arguments, how are people supposed to debate these issues when you categorize any and all disagreement as "pro-amnesty" and "Establishment"? That's bullshit.

Posted by: Thorrison at July 17, 2015 06:55 PM (AVWYi)

157 Ace, 80% of this society never really made it out of kindergarten. Persuasion is not in the cards, all they'll ever know I hair-pulling, cutdowns and comebacks.

Posted by: bernverdnardo at July 17, 2015 06:50 PM (WhfU/)




That's because they haven't experienced the level of "struggle" that they think they have. Once reality/Teh Burning Times smack them harshly in the face the survivors will grow up rather quickly, I suspect. They simply have no friggin' idea what an easy street life they have (I was going to say "row to hoe," but it occurred to me that they don't even have to do that. Yet).

Posted by: Country Singer at July 17, 2015 06:55 PM (nL0sw)

158 Lena Dunham and boob in the same sentence makes me want to become a homo.

Posted by: Weasel

Hop a rocket to Uranus, Asstronaut!!!

Posted by: That guy who always says Uranus at July 17, 2015 06:55 PM (2oWD2)

159 Heard an Obama fan at work say "There's NO WAY somebody like Trump, with his lack of experience, could be elected to the presidency!".

But I bite my tongue, because this is an otherwise upstanding and intelligent fellow.

Posted by: All Hail Eris, Freak Flag Flyin' at July 17, 2015 06:52 PM (jR7Wy)


and thus you cede the public space, to the idiots.

Our own good manners are destroying any chance the Right has of making positive change in this country.

We are so scared of offending... that we remain silent, while THEY speak...

And when all people hear is one side, they believe that EVERYONE is on that side...

Posted by: BB Wolf at July 17, 2015 06:55 PM (qh617)

160 Eris objecting, as a single person, cannot be "social shaming," as there is no society there -- she is just one person.

Posted by: ace at July 17, 2015 06:51 PM (bhepQ)
---
The screamer has a point. I shouldn't have said "Stop saying...". I should have phrase it "Perhaps it would be more accurate to say...". It was not my intent to tell you your own opinion.

We get puffy and irritable every now and then, you know how it goes.

Posted by: All Hail Eris, Freak Flag Flyin' at July 17, 2015 06:55 PM (jR7Wy)

161 ace, one thing the lefties can't stand is the feeling of not being cool. I know lefties in their 60s who still think cool is the main criterion. it's embarrassing, but they're oblivious.

the only thing cooler than cool is monied maturity.

Posted by: Feh at July 17, 2015 06:55 PM (Uk9e2)

162 a shame circle is like a drum circle without dreads

Posted by: ThunderB at July 17, 2015 06:55 PM (zOTsN)

163 WHO WANTS SOME?!?
...I'm willing to listen.
Tell me where I'm going wrong?
*draws back fist*
No, really. C'mere!

"While these tactics work for some, I never use them unless I do. Until we have a greater understanding of your stupidity and my ignorance, we'll never get anywhere."

-"That's why I'm starting F.riends U.rging C.onstant K.nowledge".

...Y.outh O.utreach for U.nderstanding.

For a newsletter, email FU@earthlink.com.

...then Pray you don't hear from me.

Posted by: Slapweasel (Cold1) (T) at July 17, 2015 06:55 PM (OQ9R7)

164 @139 Totally.
Yet another reason why I return again and again to this award-winning, smart, military blog!

Posted by: Loyalist Gene at July 17, 2015 06:55 PM (empCI)

165 162 a shame circle is like a drum circle without dreads
Posted by: ThunderB at July 17, 2015 06:55 PM (zOTsN)
---
We can shame each other off without shame!

Posted by: All Hail Eris, Freak Flag Flyin' at July 17, 2015 06:56 PM (jR7Wy)

166 Who's acting girlish? What?

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at July 17, 2015 06:56 PM (cD1Y4)

167 Something that scares me almost as much as what Obama's going to do in his last months is what will McCain do if he loses the primary and has NO reason to be even HIS brand of reasonable during those same last months.

It might be the perfect storm. He's a jackass and probably willing to spite every one of us somehow and Obama and friends will be trying to cook up as much crap for the next President (inevitably a Republican but they don't care either way) to have to wade through just to get started.

It could get very very bad. Especially with mealy mouth McConnell and the Weeping Boehner in charge.

Anything could happen.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That at July 17, 2015 06:56 PM (x3GpS)

168 Shame circle? Isn't that what we call a donut? Delicious shame circles...

Posted by: Tilikum Killer Assault Whale at July 17, 2015 06:57 PM (LWWrf)

169 We can shame each other off without shame!
Posted by: All Hail Eris, Freak Flag Flyin' at July 17, 2015 06:56 PM (jR7Wy)


#EuphemismAlert

Posted by: Sean Bannion at July 17, 2015 06:57 PM (V+kmg)

170 You have to comment on the post to see what's in it.

Can we just be honest and state our actual preferences, and why we prefer these things, and deal with each other honestly

Only if it means we'll win the argument.

Seriously, you're asking a lot of two kinds of people here:

(1) people who don't want to be shamed, and so will lie about their position, and
(2) people who don't believe their position holds anything close to enough of a majority, and so who use minority shaming tactics to shut down opposition.

If I were a progressive, and I wanted progressive things, I'm not going to come out and say, hey, we should farm people for organs. Even if I think that sort of scientific state is exactly what we need. Because I know damn well I well that's a minority position.

Ultimately, as long as the media is made up of tweener girls, attempts to use shame to avoid argument themselves need to be ridiculed to shame. I would love to see a viable alternative.

Posted by: Stephen Price Blair at July 17, 2015 06:57 PM (J0IP0)

171 Posted by: seattle slough

STFU, dunce.

Posted by: since soothie isn't here to say what needs to be said at July 17, 2015 06:57 PM (njKyW)

172 @153 !

Posted by: Loyalist Gene at July 17, 2015 06:57 PM (empCI)

173 *pounces Tilikum*

Sushi!

Posted by: Anna Puma at July 17, 2015 06:57 PM (ScdsY)

174 >>>That said, I don't think any liberal actually believes you guys are going to nominate Donald Trump. (And they would LOVE it if you did.) So I don't think there's a whole lot of gamesmanship to this. I think people legitimately find his comments about Mexicans (for example) to be offensive and they don't want to give this joker a bigger platform than he deserves.

I mean, are you really going to nominate Donald Trump?! Please tell me that you are.

...

honestly i don't care either way, the country is doomed, I shall tend my own garden and be the best human being I am capable of being under a bent fascist regime.

Posted by: ace at July 17, 2015 06:58 PM (bhepQ)

175 Shame circle? Isn't that what we call a donut? Delicious shame circles...
Posted by: Tilikum Killer Assault Whale

They used to have sprinkles.

Posted by: Ariana Grande at July 17, 2015 06:58 PM (rVQpn)

176 ents provided exclusively to POLITICO, the Democratic-backed American Bridge [to nowhere] 21st Century super PAC has begun submitting requests under the Freedom of Information Act to the Securities and Exchange Commission and the Federal Aviation Administration for correspondence with employees of The Trump Organization, including Trump himself.

Posted by: Islamic Rage Boy at July 17, 2015 06:58 PM (+aiYj)

177
honestly i don't care either way, the country is doomed, I shall tend my own garden and be the best human being I am capable of being under a bent fascist regime.

Posted by: ace at July 17, 2015 06:58 PM (bhepQ)


This.

*fist bump*

Don't fear the reaper...

Posted by: Sean Bannion at July 17, 2015 06:59 PM (V+kmg)

178 You mean little girls don't do the shame circle thing? Not seeing how saying that is wrong.

Posted by: Tilikum Killer Assault Whale at July 17, 2015 06:59 PM (LWWrf)

179 speaking of country singers, Zane Williams is a fine one

Posted by: Feh at July 17, 2015 06:59 PM (Uk9e2)

180 "honestly i don't care either way, the country is doomed, I shall tend my own garden and be the best human being I am capable of being under a bent fascist regime."

Nicely played, Sir.

Posted by: Slapweasel (Cold1) (T) at July 17, 2015 06:59 PM (OQ9R7)

181 >>>You mean little girls don't do the shame circle thing? Not seeing how saying that is wrong.

so do little boys and so, increasingly, do adult men

Posted by: ace at July 17, 2015 06:59 PM (bhepQ)

182 167 Something that scares me almost as much as what Obama's going to do in his last months is what will McCain do if he loses the primary and has NO reason to be even HIS brand of reasonable during those same last months.

Why, he could vote to give Iran nukes!

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at July 17, 2015 07:00 PM (cD1Y4)

183 Ain't That a Shame was covered by Cheap Trick.

Posted by: Dang at July 17, 2015 07:00 PM (2oWD2)

184 Any Canadians here? I was recently in Ottawa and was told by a grocer in a large chain store that canned Deviled Ham is not sold. True?

Posted by: Weasel at July 17, 2015 07:00 PM (e3bId)

185 Well, all I'm saying is that I want to look back and say that I did I the best I could while I was stuck in this place. Had as much fun as I could while I was stuck in this place. Played as hard as I could while I was stuck in this place... Dogged as many girls as I could while I was stuck in this place.

Posted by: Stephen Price Blair at July 17, 2015 07:00 PM (J0IP0)

186 Who's attacking Planned Parenthood? An extreme (and extremely discredited) anti-abortion group. Consider the source






Who's defending Planned Parenthood? A complete lunatic. Consider the source

Posted by: TheQuietMan at July 17, 2015 07:01 PM (DiZBp)

187 I'll confess;

I believe Trump to be a leftist. I am fully aware of his stance on abortion, amnesty and his near constant praise of Democrats over the years.

I believe him to be a buffon. A loudmouth. A man only capable of selling himself and saying whatever is necessary to the people in order to get the nomination. I do not believe for one second that he supports my views or the views of most conservatives. I don't even think he's a particularly good manager like most accomplished CEOs and businessmen.

I believe he would be vaporized in a general election against any nominated Dem from Hillary to Webb to Sanders. I believe on the slim chance he actually were elected president, he would be a walking shambling disaster that would further lead this country into ruin.

But I support him. Because he is a complete headshot to the GOP braintrust and his nomination would completely destroy the Republican Party. Trump is a vote of no confidence in the GOP and the first step to destroying them and moving towards a Third Party.

That is why he has my vote. He is a kamikaze style attack against Republicans now that I feel that country is already lost and the damage of the Obama years cannot be undone in our current political state. I have no delusions about him 'being angry on my behalf' or 'representing my frustrations' and I accept it.

He is merely the means to an end for me.

Posted by: El Kabong at July 17, 2015 07:01 PM (75gXb)

188
I want my country back--as I knew it growing up. I believe in the Constitution, Bill of Rights, Declaration of Independence--in short, the bedrock of this nation.

I believe in my country to the point of being willing to die to ensure it's survival.

For some time now have been working to restore the place, both for me and my kids. I can only do this at my very local level where things MUST begin, so here I am.

Long slow process with lots of heartburn.

I have NOTHING in common with the left save we are both carbon based life forms. And at some point, I will be in the ascendancy.

We'll see what transpires at that stage.

Posted by: irongrampa at July 17, 2015 07:01 PM (jeCnD)

189 that's the spirit, ace

cool summer so far, not the best for tomatoes, but great for having sex with the windows open

Posted by: Feh at July 17, 2015 07:01 PM (Uk9e2)

190
Ow, ow, ow,ow!
I am not sushi Anna. Come back with my fin darn it. All the other killer whales will laugh at me.

Posted by: Tilikum Killer Assault Whale at July 17, 2015 07:02 PM (LWWrf)

191 I think people legitimately find his comments about Mexicans (for example) to be offensive and they don't want to give this joker a bigger platform than he deserves.

I mean, are you really going to nominate Donald Trump?! Please tell me that you are.


Posted by: seattle slough at July 17, 2015 06:54 PM (mCz8+)


Please come to California... live here awhile... THEN say that.

The culture here has changed, and not for the better.... non Spanish speakers are at a competitive disadvantage... and Hispanics will go to Hispanic companies FIRST for business...

On many days, I hear more Spanish spoken, than English...

I think there are a whole lot of people out there who agree with Trump....

Posted by: BB Wolf at July 17, 2015 07:02 PM (qh617)

192 Who's defending Planned Parenthood? A complete lunatic. Consider the source
Posted by: TheQuietMan

A complete, child molesting lunatic. Get it right.

Posted by: Prince Ludwig the Indestructible at July 17, 2015 07:02 PM (rVQpn)

193 And when all people hear is one side, they believe that EVERYONE is on that side...
Posted by: BB Wolf at July 17, 2015 06:55 PM (qh617)
---
When the reds, pinks, mauves, and puces voice their opinions it sort of drifts away in the wind. When a more muscular fact-based assertion is made hackles are raised and oh it's on.

Totally not worth it. It's the workplace, I don't really mind putting the kibosh on politics.

Posted by: All Hail Eris, Freak Flag Flyin' at July 17, 2015 07:02 PM (jR7Wy)

194 SHAME! *ding* SHAME! *ding* SHAME! *ding*...

Posted by: The Nun walking behind Cersei at July 17, 2015 07:02 PM (cD1Y4)

195
Paintball attacks, all on orthodox Jews.

This could be a significant nascent cultural meme. The beginning of terrorist worship by imitation. Think gangsta wannabees with gold chains and their butts hanging out of their pants.

Posted by: Lurking In The Wilderness at July 17, 2015 07:02 PM (1Y+hH)

196 The left lies and so does the right. Doesn't matter which side, lying is evil. I have decided not to listen to any more of their lies. The time for talk is over, anyway. IMO.

Posted by: Eromero at July 17, 2015 07:02 PM (go5uR)

197 Shame circle? Isn't that what we call a donut? Delicious shame circles...
Posted by: Tilikum Killer Assault Whale

They used to have sprinkles.Posted by: Ariana Grande at July 17, 2015 06:58 PM (rVQpn)..................................Who gets glazed?

Posted by: wth at July 17, 2015 07:03 PM (wAQA5)

198 155 >>>That's a hella lot of words to say the HuffPo argues like Eric Cartman.


i'd like to become the White Ta-Nehisi Coates

---

You need more ridiculous hyphens and a better hairstyle.

Posted by: Jenny Hates Her Phone at July 17, 2015 07:03 PM (lzx+h)

199 Who's defending Planned Parenthood? A complete lunatic. Consider the source
Posted by: TheQuietMan

A complete, child molesting lunatic. Get it right.

Posted by: Prince Ludwig the Indestructible at July 17, 2015 07:02 PM (rVQpn)




A complete, incestuous child molesting lunatic. Get it right.

Posted by: Country Singer at July 17, 2015 07:03 PM (nL0sw)

200 159 It's not manners holding us back from speaking, it's the utter terror of losing your job and possibly your career. SJW's play for keeps and beyond.

Posted by: MAx at July 17, 2015 07:04 PM (YJeFl)

201 honestly i don't care either way, the country is doomed, I shall tend my own garden and be the best human being I am capable of being under a bent fascist regime.

Posted by: ace at July 17, 2015 06:58 PM (bhepQ)

---
So are we reading Candide?

Posted by: All Hail Eris, Freak Flag Flyin' at July 17, 2015 07:04 PM (jR7Wy)

202 For All Hail Eris, some classic Blind Swordsman Zatoichi

https://youtu.be/LYaXwv1peeQ

Nyah Tilikum! Pretty sure it will be covered with 404Care... after a panel review..

Posted by: Anna Puma at July 17, 2015 07:04 PM (ScdsY)

203 34
"
No doubt- and even worse they'll have US citizenship, so we'll be
told it's "domestic" terrorism, nothing to do with our muzzie friends at
all.



I mean, if we survive it. And since US infrastructure is about as hardened as a grape it's rather too likely we won't.

Posted by: Xennady"


Thanks, I wasn't sure anyone was reading that. And you are right.

This to me is rather chilling, knowing that there seems to be in place a plan, being executed, with the apparent collusion of the state, to do these things.

Maybe I am wrong, but looking at what is happening, it would seem I am not.


Posted by: Mr. AR10 at July 17, 2015 07:04 PM (zZyu4)

204 What do you mean doomed? Like you think we are all going to die? Or you think we're going to be invaded? Or you think we're going to splinter apart? What does this doom look like.

What's the end game?

Posted by: seattle slough at July 17, 2015 07:04 PM (mCz8+)

205 @200 Saiga 12 much?

Posted by: Loyalist Gene at July 17, 2015 07:04 PM (empCI)

206 Ugh, Friday afternoon Hector!

Posted by: Lizzy at July 17, 2015 07:05 PM (NOIQH)

207 Well, those of you who had "July 17th" as the date when ace announced he was prepared to go "Full Goldstein" - pick up your winnings at the cashier.

Posted by: BumperStickerist at July 17, 2015 07:05 PM (0MJOU)

208 >>.So are we reading Candide?

actually i was but i stopped because i tend to quit most things

Posted by: ace at July 17, 2015 07:05 PM (bhepQ)

209
191 To say Trump was talking about Mexicans is a lie and a vicious slander. He was talking about illegal immigrants from Mexico.
Read the transcript.

Posted by: MAx at July 17, 2015 07:06 PM (YJeFl)

210
First, you need to understand you're arguing with ideological-religious zealots.

Doctrine comes first with these people. They are dogmatic ideological zealots.

Posted by: Soothsayer's Home For Imaginary Friends at July 17, 2015 07:06 PM (lyLdm)

211 @205 Surely, you're not talking set guns? Or murder?!?

Posted by: N E 1 Read Blackstone's Commentaries? at July 17, 2015 07:06 PM (empCI)

212 Dammit, I confused Ta-Nehisi with Toure of The Glorious Dreads. Ace probably already has dumb hipster glasses and can cultivate a beard

Posted by: Jenny Hates Her Phone at July 17, 2015 07:06 PM (lzx+h)

213 I wish I my anus. Big bad salsa last night and spitting out molten diarrhea is not fun. Of course it won't stop me from eating it again.

Posted by: Jukin, Former Republican at July 17, 2015 07:06 PM (TV9BR)

214 Fuck you right wingers I'm no pussy.

Posted by: scott wiener at July 17, 2015 07:06 PM (WCnJW)

215

now that I have looked at it some more

there have been well over a dozen attacks on orthodox jews via paintball in Brooklyn and Staten Island since at least March 31

same car

same people

Posted by: ThunderB at July 17, 2015 07:07 PM (zOTsN)

216 Uranus, hisanus, heranus, theiranus, I will visit all of them.

Posted by: Explosive Diarrhea at July 17, 2015 07:08 PM (TV9BR)

217 a very fun read is Innocents Abroad by Mark Twain

Posted by: ThunderB at July 17, 2015 07:08 PM (zOTsN)

218 >>same car
same people

Is the license plate not visible in the photos?

Posted by: Lizzy at July 17, 2015 07:08 PM (NOIQH)

219 I love nuns. Up here, they wear habits, do good works, and look very happy. I know many orders are aging, but I see many young ones who are tending their gardens despite the chaos swirling around them. Still points in a turning world. It makes me happier knowing they are here.

Posted by: Feh at July 17, 2015 07:09 PM (Uk9e2)

220 an attempt to win what should be a contest of competing ideas by use of processes that have nothing to do with the intellect.

You'd think they'd relish the chance to Brandish their Better Ideas.

Posted by: t-bird at July 17, 2015 07:10 PM (FcR7P)

221 "They are dogmatic ideological zealots."

With venereal disease and assorted neuroses.

Posted by: Feh at July 17, 2015 07:10 PM (Uk9e2)

222 182 What could McCain do to this country that is worse than what he HAS done to this country, or helped McConnell do to this country?

Posted by: Richard McEnroe at July 17, 2015 07:10 PM (Kucy5)

223 >>.a very fun read is Innocents Abroad by Mark Twain

hm, remind me of that next time we talk book club!

seems do-able.

Posted by: ace at July 17, 2015 07:10 PM (bhepQ)

224 I love nuns. Up here, they wear habits, do good works, and look very happy. I know many orders are aging, but I see many young ones who are tending their gardens despite the chaos swirling around them. Still points in a turning world. It makes me happier knowing they are here.
Posted by: Feh at July 17, 2015 07:09 PM (Uk9e2)


There's an entire community grown up overnight near a Catholic monastery in Clear Creek, OK.

Same dynamic. They're living out the "Benedict Option," just hunkering down and watching to wave break over them.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at July 17, 2015 07:11 PM (V+kmg)

225 twain is one of those writers who I previously pretended to read (for school) who I would like to one day actually read.

i don't want to read huck finn, tho. Just seems... i dunno. Just not my bag.

Posted by: ace at July 17, 2015 07:11 PM (bhepQ)

226 204 What do you mean doomed? Like you think we are all going to die? Or you think we're going to be invaded? Or you think we're going to splinter apart? What does this doom look like.

Well, there's the deficits and debts nobody will deal with, the immigrants pouring over our borders illegally being used as slaves and votes by the elites, our entitlement plan which has too few workers to support the elderly, the blind eye to Islam which wants to kill anyone who displays a picture, and the psychotic hatred of every other religion.

And there's Iran's impending nuclear bomb, China's likely implosion, the probably collapse of the Eurozone...

There's the witch hunt to find and fire conservatives or christians from any facet of society (which I'm sure you're fine with, or will say doesn't happen).

There's the move by corporations to ban anything that offends SJWs this week, such as that symbol of hatred the General Lee.

And there's harvesting baby organs for sale to medical companies, which society views as less objectionable than saying a 59 year old transwoman might not be the bravest person on earth.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at July 17, 2015 07:11 PM (cD1Y4)

227 Damn shame. Dinner time. Adios.

Posted by: Dang at July 17, 2015 07:12 PM (2oWD2)

228
The Left might as well just keep screaming Blasphemer! and Lies, All Lies! at you when you're arguing with them because that's pretty much what they're doing anyway.

So, no, you cannot have an honest discussion today with half the country.

Posted by: Soothsayer's Home For Imaginary Friends at July 17, 2015 07:12 PM (lyLdm)

229 Heard on the radio this afternoon that the terrorist shit was going to get hired by the Nuclear plant up in Cleveland. And then he failed a background check. I wonder what that check turned up.

Posted by: buzzion at July 17, 2015 07:12 PM (zt+N6)

230 I know them well, Bannion.

Ace, Life on the Mississippi is enjoyable.

Posted by: Feh at July 17, 2015 07:13 PM (Uk9e2)

231 Two words: Hate Crime.
Why is this not national news?


Because the victims are Orthodox Jews.

Posted by: Michael the Hobbit at July 17, 2015 07:13 PM (0RdKg)

232
I believe in Uncle Todd, who waves his penis.

And that Lemon Pokey is better than Chocolate Almond Pokey.

And that's it.



Wait. Wait. And I also believe that "Blood Creek" is a very good but not great horror movie.


That's it.


No...wait....


No, that's all.

Posted by: naturalfake at July 17, 2015 07:13 PM (KUa85)

233
I wish I my anus.
............................
Granted. Two more wishes.

Posted by: Genie in a bottle at July 17, 2015 07:13 PM (wAQA5)

234 Same dynamic. They're living out the "Benedict Option," just hunkering down and watching to wave break over them.
Posted by: Sean Bannion at July 17, 2015 07:11 PM (V+kmg)
---
Me too, except it's in my dungeon, and its the Pope Alexander VI Option.

Posted by: All Hail Eris, Freak Flag Flyin' at July 17, 2015 07:14 PM (jR7Wy)

235 But more importantly because the attackers are a protected class.

Posted by: Anna Puma at July 17, 2015 07:14 PM (ScdsY)

236 innocents Abroad satered as a bunch of columns he wrote for his trip to Europe

IIRC its pretty fun, a quick read with some very politically incorrect observations of the old sod

Posted by: ThunderB at July 17, 2015 07:14 PM (zOTsN)

237 I'll be honest and say that what I'd like to say would get me banned. Honesty and civility are not always compatible.

Posted by: freaked at July 17, 2015 07:14 PM (BO/km)

238 Bevel, and that's just the minor stuff.

Posted by: Feh at July 17, 2015 07:14 PM (Uk9e2)

239 Hide the chestnuts!

Posted by: Anna Puma at July 17, 2015 07:14 PM (ScdsY)

240 So I lost credibility among pro-life people.

Maybe a different word. I already knew you believed your position. I just know it's wrong.

Meanwhile
How about we all just say what we really believe, and see how that works for a change?

How many of these things would be pure poison for some candidates to Bulworth? eg. A Pro-Amnesty statement would kill pretty much anybody but the Anointed JEB right now.

Posted by: DaveA at July 17, 2015 07:14 PM (DL2i+)

241 Great choice to use immigration for your argument. I could, maybe, be convinced amnesty is necessary, if the liars pushing explained themselves and weren't such lying liars.

Posted by: Old Hob at July 17, 2015 07:15 PM (Z+7WE)

242 I admit, although I think Trump as a President would be a tragic disaster of Bloombergian proportions, I hope he stays high enough in the polls to where the cherry-picked Fox debate has no choice but to seat him, sending the Jeb parade over the edge like a carriage in a Terry Pratchett novel.

Posted by: Richard McEnroe at July 17, 2015 07:15 PM (Kucy5)

243
You know why we're doomed? Because we are at war and we refuse to fight or we do not acknowledge that we're at war.

Time for a stand. Or we'll wither away and die. Or we'll be gunned down by our other enemies, the muslims.

Posted by: Soothsayer's Home For Imaginary Friends at July 17, 2015 07:15 PM (lyLdm)

244 >>Heard on the radio this afternoon that the terrorist shit was going to get hired by the Nuclear plant up in Cleveland. And then he failed a background check


Huh. Saw this over ate neoneocon:

Abdulazeez was "was a student intern a few years ago at the authority, a federally owned utility that operates power plants and dams across the South."

Yikes!

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/
latest-witness-talks-barrage-gunfire-32496212

Posted by: Lizzy at July 17, 2015 07:15 PM (NOIQH)

245 Me too, except it's in my dungeon, and its the Pope Alexander VI Option.
Posted by: All Hail Eris, Freak Flag Flyin' at July 17, 2015 07:14 PM (jR7Wy)


I'm more a "Banquet of the Chestnuts" kinda guy.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at July 17, 2015 07:16 PM (V+kmg)

246 Perhaps we are on the Discworld
Soros is so odious and malignant
that Death is going, "No way Jose!"

Posted by: Anna Puma at July 17, 2015 07:16 PM (ScdsY)

247
STFU, dunce.

Well said.

Posted by: Soothsayer's Home For Imaginary Friends at July 17, 2015 07:16 PM (lyLdm)

248 discussions?

thing is there are two parallel realities - the reality of facts (us) and the reality of political war (them).

where we see islamic terror, potential economic collapse and political abuse of power, they see rape culture, agw and pc intolerance as problems.

Posted by: steinmetz at July 17, 2015 07:16 PM (CrYC8)

249 I believe I can fly.

Posted by: R. Kelly's Penis at July 17, 2015 07:17 PM (ivLob)

250 Ace, it would make too much sense if we could just sit down and have a rational discussion and agree to disagree. But it won't happen.

1) It's much more fun to fling poo. You really have to give it to the chimps there.

2) People don't argue honestly. Liberals, in particular, lie. They say, "oh, we just want X" when they really want X, Y, Z, P, D, and Q. As soon as they get X, they start saying, "oh, we just want Y" and you give in and eventually they win.

3) Point 2 leads to this. If you are arguing with a liberal, and reasonably propose a middle-of-the-road solution, they will immediately move the goalposts, as soon as they get you in the middle. It is an inexorable, step-by-step movement to what they want, and they never, EVER, give an inch. Ever. If you try to negotiate with a liberal, you will lose.

4) Some arguments simply don't have a mutually agreeable solution. Me, I think the GOP is about to blow itself apart over many issues, but amnesty is the catalyst. You want amnesty, or you do not. And you can't have something in the middle. The GOPe wants it badly, some of us in the base are rabidly against it, and there is NO common ground there. None. I will vote against the GOP if a pro-amnesty candidate wins the nomination. I will do it to break the party, because we will have reached the point that only if the GOP is broken can a true conservative party be born. F--- the Chamber of Commerce.

4) Trump has resonated so strongly because, I believe, amnesty is the single most important issue in this election. If amnesty is granted, the extra 30 million Dem voters mean the "fundamental transformation" will be fixed in stone, and we are DONE. What would I do instead? I agree we can't deport all those people. I would give them "guest worker" status, the right to live here, drive, etc. as long as they pay taxes and stay clean with the law. But never, ever to be citizens or vote. And I'd take away birthright citizenship from noncitizen parents: no more anchor babies. No more bringing in 20 relatives.

But even if I got everything I want, the Dems would immediately go to court and eventually a judge would give them what they want. So this is a case where a solution that at least tries to be reasonable (at least I'm not trying to deport people with my compromise) simply won't be possible to achieve.

Personally, I believe we're hosed anyway. But fighting amnesty could buy us another generation.

Posted by: Agent J at July 17, 2015 07:17 PM (t46pG)

251 Well that's where you want your terrorists! At dams and nuclear power plants!

Posted by: Weasel at July 17, 2015 07:17 PM (e3bId)

252 How do you have an honest discussion with a liar ?

The GOP lied to us.

The time for discussion is over.

The GOP is a hopeless pile of junk.

How about an honest discussion of how to replace it and with what?

Posted by: eman at July 17, 2015 07:17 PM (VYfZq)

253 Here's what I believe:

Islam, at least as currently interpreted by the majority of mainstream muslims, is a violent and dangerous theocratic-political system that is hostile to, and irreconcilable with, western civilization. The basic tenets of the muslim faith (e.g., no freedom of speech, no freedom of religion, no separation of church and state, no equal civil rights for women, gays, etc.) are antithetical to the values of the majority of Americans. For this reason, true assimilation of muslim immigrants into our culture is not possible, and therefore we should stop allowing muslims to immigrate here.

As to amnesty, that is simply bad public policy. We should have learned this lesson decades ago. Amnesty rewards law-breaking, and encourages and incentivizes even more law-breaking in the future. (Exhibit A: the 1986 amnesty of 3 million illegal aliens, which opened the floodgates to more illegal entries, so that we now have 15-30 million more illegals demanding their own bite at the amnesty apple). Amnesty is also unfair to people who obeyed the law and waited for a visa; it makes them into suckers. Amnesty undermines the rule of law, which is vital to our society, because it breeds contempt for the law and for lawmakers.

I also believe that every foreigner on the planet does NOT have a natural right to live in America. America is a sovereign nation, built by the blood, sweat, and sacrifice of generations of Americans. This country did not spontaneously spring up, fully formed, on this continent. It was built here -- by and for a specific people. We may choose to allow others to come here, or we may choose not to. But no foreigner has the "right" to come and live here, no matter how much he or she may want to, no matter how much he or she may share our ideals or feel that they are American in spirit. To live in America is a privilege that we Americans may grant to foreigners, but it is never, ever a right that they can demand. And our immigration policies should (but obviously do not) reflect that fact. Our immigration policies should, first and foremost, serve the best interests of the American people -- not the rest of the world.

Posted by: TrivialPursuer at July 17, 2015 07:17 PM (kGrdk)

254 Speaking of Twain "What Is Man" would also be good for discussion. One of my favorites.

Posted by: freaked at July 17, 2015 07:17 PM (BO/km)

255 A good, solidly-built, German-engineered lie;

Da, dose pants do not make your ass look fat Fraulein

Posted by: DaveA at July 17, 2015 07:18 PM (DL2i+)

256 Ooh, Anna, the fight is about to start

*munches mochi* (not a euphemism)

Posted by: All Hail Eris, Freak Flag Flyin' at July 17, 2015 07:18 PM (jR7Wy)

257 Terrorists working for power companies... where have I heard that in fiction?

Oh wait Patriot Games by Tom Clancy.

Posted by: Anna Puma at July 17, 2015 07:18 PM (ScdsY)

258 Abdulazeez! Abdulazeez!

Posted by: Gesundheit! at July 17, 2015 07:18 PM (wAQA5)

259 The image of Twain got me smoking Virginia in a cob pipe now and then, just to see. I walked around a lake the other day smoking burley. Einstein said it made him more objective, but all it made me was thirsty.

Posted by: Feh at July 17, 2015 07:19 PM (Uk9e2)

260 i don't want to read huck finn, tho. Just seems... i dunno. Just not my bag.



Posted by: ace at July 17, 2015 07:11 PM (bhepQ)



Tom Sawyer would be more your speed. Convincing others to do your work for free.

"Hey Maet, you should try painting the fence writing a blog post. Its awesome and fun!"

Posted by: buzzion at July 17, 2015 07:20 PM (zt+N6)

261 Or terrorists blowing up an oil field - Red Storm Rising and the killers were Muslim.

Posted by: Anna Puma at July 17, 2015 07:21 PM (ScdsY)

262 I'm more a "Banquet of the Chestnuts" kinda guy.
Posted by: Sean Bannion at July 17, 2015 07:16 PM (V+kmg)
---
Not from the Urban Dictionary for once.

Always learning at the AoSHQ.

Ejacupacity!

Posted by: All Hail Eris, Freak Flag Flyin' at July 17, 2015 07:21 PM (jR7Wy)

263 The schisms in the GOP are now too great f

The Scankles-Bernie gap wont be Bidened away this time either.

Posted by: DaveA at July 17, 2015 07:21 PM (DL2i+)

264 I suspect Trump won't actually make it past the primaries. I suspect his flip-flopping will be exposed and sink him.

But if he manages to convince primary voters that he is now sincerely anti-Hillary, anti-amnesty, pro-free market healthcare, etc., he may be a good candidate in the general election. He polls weakly now, but on a one-on-one with Billary or Bernie, he'd be able to close that gap some, and maybe reverse it.

What most people don't like about trump is his crassness, because we're not supposed to like that stuff from politicians. But I have a suspicion--maybe I'm wrong; I often am--that the initial "Oh, dear me!" pearl clutching that Trump's demeanor induces will give way to acceptance. He is, after all, saying many things that are true, but that we just aren't supposed to say--*and in the tone they deserve to be said in*. His response to the Huffington Puffington Compost on Facebook is a perfect example.

Whatever bullshit Trump puts out, he also cuts through a lot of it. More of it than he puts out, I think. And yes, that *does matter*. Because bullshit is bad for you.

Posted by: Mr. Estrada at July 17, 2015 07:22 PM (RPsRI)

265 would Jeb fight the jihad any differently?

I doubt it

Posted by: Feh at July 17, 2015 07:22 PM (Uk9e2)

266 I believe I can fly.


Posted by: R. Kelly's Penis at July 17, 2015 07:17 PM
-------

Well, believe it or not I'm walking on air. I never thought I could feel so free!

Posted by: Greatest American Hero at July 17, 2015 07:22 PM (X9w90)

267 Ejacupacity!
Posted by: All Hail Eris, Freak Flag Flyin' at July 17, 2015 07:21 PM (jR7Wy)


Shhhhhh!

*shifty eyes*

That's the password for the camps.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at July 17, 2015 07:23 PM (V+kmg)

268 will the press ever cover the fact that the assholes who cause Staten Island to be shut down this afternoon are responsible for over a dozen attacks on Orthodox Jews

will the NYPD ever admit it

and if these assholes lived in NJ will Christie talk about it

Posted by: ThunderB at July 17, 2015 07:24 PM (zOTsN)

269 "pearl clutching that Trump's demeanor induces will give way"

totally agree, and he'll split Dems some, too

Posted by: Feh at July 17, 2015 07:24 PM (Uk9e2)

270
I shall tend my own garden and be the best human being I am capable of being under a bent fascist regime.

Aye, you could do this.
But since you don't believe in an Afte-Life, why not be the Best Ace you can be and go balls deep in this godforsaken world?



Posted by: Soothsayer's Home For Imaginary Friends at July 17, 2015 07:24 PM (lyLdm)

271 Or terrorists blowing up an oil field - Red Storm Rising and the killers were Muslim.


Posted by: Anna Puma at July 17, 2015 07:21 PM (ScdsY)


Hollywood: Really? Better change it to the Tea Party. That's more believable.

Posted by: TheQuietMan at July 17, 2015 07:24 PM (DiZBp)

272 I take care of the Trump for you, no problem.

Posted by: "Shorty" Guzman at July 17, 2015 07:24 PM (wAQA5)

273 would Jeb fight the jihad any differently?

I doubt it
Posted by: Feh

Jihad is an act of love. These are great people doing the jobs Americans just won't do. And they're such dedicated family men.

Posted by: El Jefe HEB Boosh at July 17, 2015 07:24 PM (rVQpn)

274 Point of information.

Gov Fallin's order applies to the OK National Guard and its recruiting offices.

And it makes Prezzy Mus-symp look bad.

Posted by: Lurking In The Wilderness at July 17, 2015 07:25 PM (1Y+hH)

275 if there were a dozne paintball attacks on black in NYC woud we hear about it?

if there were a dozen paint ball attacks on muslims in NY or NJ would we hear about it?

Posted by: ThunderB at July 17, 2015 07:25 PM (zOTsN)

276 Guzman's being the best Guzman he can be.

Posted by: Feh at July 17, 2015 07:26 PM (Uk9e2)

277 263 The Scankles-Bernie gap wont be Bidened away this time either.
Posted by: DaveA at July 17, 2015 07:21 PM (DL2i+)

DaveA, that is a real issue for the Dems, but it's not as if their party is breaking up. The socialist wing will vote for the nominee no matter what. The only thing a HRC victory over Sanders would do is reduce turnout a few points, just like Nader took a few away from Algore. And it'll be a few points from like Vermont and MA and CA and the most liberal states, it won't cost them "normal" states.

The GOP, though, already starting from a position of weakness, can't afford to lose any of the base. We saw last time what that did. But they are well on the way to chasing away maybe 5-10% of their own base.

Posted by: Agent J at July 17, 2015 07:27 PM (t46pG)

278 So did they pick up that van yet? You know that one loaded with weapons packed up and ready to go?

Posted by: freaked at July 17, 2015 07:28 PM (BO/km)

279 I can't see a milquetoast winning the general. The world is on fire.

Posted by: Feh at July 17, 2015 07:28 PM (Uk9e2)

280
Okay, honesty?
1) Anyone who claims that a fetus is a baby in the first trimester is a little bit nuts, and this can be proven scientifically. In such cases a woman's right is the rule, unless she is a minor, then either a judge or her parents must sign off on the deal.
2) Anyone who says a baby in the last trimester is not a baby is nuts and this can be proven scientifically. In such cases a woman has no right to kill her unborn child. And don't bullshit me and say you didn't know you were pregnant for six months.
3) The middle three months, split the damn difference.You can have an abortion if genetic abnormalities are detected, and a doctor signs off. Otherwise nope. But heck, we can talk it out.
By the by, these are more or less the abortion rules for MOST of western Europe. Sweden is ladies choice up to 18 weeks (4.5 months), after that ONLY to save the life of the mother. Guess what? Not controversial at all.

Posted by: Geroge Orwell's ghost at July 17, 2015 07:29 PM (HuVX+)

281 The public wants dishonesty, so the political class will give it to them.

Until we can change the public's desire, we will see this continue...

Posted by: 18-1 at July 17, 2015 07:29 PM (5LOno)

282 This is one reason I'm glad I'm a housewife. I speak the truth as I see it, piss off friends, (extended) family and acquaintances and the heck with it. The older I get, the less time I waste on people who refuse to see what's in front of their faces.

Posted by: LadyS at July 17, 2015 07:29 PM (xYNhJ)

283 I hope the movie scene met your expectations All Hail Eris.

Posted by: Anna Puma at July 17, 2015 07:29 PM (ScdsY)

284 267 Ejacupacity!
Posted by: All Hail Eris, Freak Flag Flyin' at July 17, 2015 07:21 PM (jR7Wy)

Shhhhhh!

*shifty eyes*

That's the password for the camps.
Posted by: Sean Bannion at July 17, 2015 07:23 PM (V+kmg)
---
Wait till you see the secret handshake!

Posted by: All Hail Eris, Freak Flag Flyin' at July 17, 2015 07:29 PM (jR7Wy)

285 @225 Yet so much of what you should read depends on Huck Finn.
Up From Slavery
Out of Africa
Witness
Up From Liberalism
The Moviegoer
Franny and Zooey
A Fan's Notes
Please realize love is. God rules. People fail.
Bring Him rags and failures? A strange exchange makes them myrrh and gold.
http://preview.tinyurl.com/pm2ggfy

Posted by: James Boswell, "Life of Johnson" at July 17, 2015 07:30 PM (empCI)

286 >>>

Dude. Read your damn article again. You are submitting to social
shaming. You are right. You spoke well. Do not back down. Do not tiptoe.
Be a MAN. It is ok. You will not get hurt or die. It is ok to offend
people. It is ok to call out adults for acting like bitchy little
tweener girls. You are fine. Stand up.



not to get in a ridiculous shame circle, but if what she did was shaming, you are now equally "shaming' me.



come on, the principle has a limit. People saying 'I object to this' is not, of itself, shaming.



Otherwise we can't disagree with each other, which is preposterous.



Social shaming requires *a multiparty coordinated effort.*



Eris objecting, as a single person, cannot be "social shaming," as there is no society there -- she is just one person.


Ace, she objected to it on the grounds that you were being "sexist". Not that it was not accurate or true. But that it was wrong to do because it was sexist. Are you a sexist, Ace? Was what you wrote sexist? Is that a concern of yours? If you agree with her criticism you are accepting a huge number of her assumptions. I am assuming you do not agree with those assumptions and changed because you felt guilt at being called a sexist. Maybe you felt guilt at being sexist and making a true but impermissible point?

If you were being direct and honest and that is how you feel then tell her to buzz off with her Leftist bs.

If you were being Alinksyesque and were not being direct and honest then retract.

Posted by: Skarp Hedin at July 17, 2015 07:30 PM (KpmUl)

287 LA Morons looking to leave LA via the 15 today need to rearrange plans. The freeway is on fiyah!

Posted by: weft cut-loop at July 17, 2015 07:30 PM (VY8H5)

288
Has anyone mentioned/reminded us of the fact that about 8-15 years ago the Left attacked recruiters, too?

Anyone else remember the big push to boot recruiters off ALL campuses? Remember how UGLY it got? The Left did while pretending to support the troops, too. And by the Left, I mean Democrats in office. Traitors and terrorists, no different than Mohammed Alhourezzebub.

Posted by: Soothsayer's Home For Imaginary Friends at July 17, 2015 07:30 PM (lyLdm)

289
278
and he has bigger boobs than you.

Posted by: wth at July 17, 2015 07:30 PM (wAQA5)

290 286. Ace has met AllHailEris. Buzz off.

Posted by: LadyS at July 17, 2015 07:31 PM (xYNhJ)

291 By the by, these are more or less the abortion rules for MOST of western Europe. Sweden is ladies choice up to 18 weeks (4.5 months), after that ONLY to save the life of the mother. Guess what? Not controversial at all.
Posted by: Geroge Orwell's ghost

It's noncontroversial because they got to actually, you know, vote on it.

Posted by: Prince Ludwig the Indestructible at July 17, 2015 07:31 PM (rVQpn)

292 I think he's using Caitlyn's boob advisor.

Posted by: Weasel at July 17, 2015 07:32 PM (e3bId)

293 Mr Orwelk's Ghost are you saying that it can be scientificly proven that I'm nuts?

Posted by: freaked at July 17, 2015 07:32 PM (BO/km)

294 Yeah All Hail Eris told Ace to get off her lawn and lived.

Posted by: Anna Puma at July 17, 2015 07:32 PM (ScdsY)

295
btw, Ace, an awesome alternate post title for the post below about the pic of the menacing muslim woman would be:

Muslim Backlash

Posted by: Soothsayer's Home For Imaginary Friends at July 17, 2015 07:32 PM (lyLdm)

296 I cant find it now but I read about Susan B Anthony's grand niece or grand daughter who was a total slut and druggie and then became a nun.

Posted by: Bruce With a Wang! at July 17, 2015 07:33 PM (iQIUe)

297 Our political process could use more auroch bones.

Posted by: rickl at July 17, 2015 07:33 PM (sdi6R)

298 283 I hope the movie scene met your expectations All Hail Eris.
Posted by: Anna Puma at July 17, 2015 07:29 PM (ScdsY)
----
Just finished it. Classic, the light snow falling, everything is hushed, just the singing blades, monochrome palate except for the trail of blood in the snow.

I know noting of samurai sword fighting, but it was unusual that he held his sword with the blade pointed down, yes?

Posted by: All Hail Eris, Freak Flag Flyin' at July 17, 2015 07:34 PM (jR7Wy)

299
This was an important post ace.
Vox Day has also recently been exploring the difference between rhetoric and dialectic modes of discourse.
Couldn't SJW without mad skillz in rhetoric.
http://tinyurl.com/no5lo5r Super-important post.

Posted by: MAx at July 17, 2015 07:34 PM (YJeFl)

300 278
and he has bigger boobs than you.Posted by: wth at July 17, 2015 07:30 PM (wAQA5).....................Ignore. Repeat, ignore. Mistake. Goodbye.

Posted by: wth at July 17, 2015 07:34 PM (wAQA5)

301 And yes. I am shaming you. But I genuinely feel this way. I am being direct. I do not think you should bend to cultural left bs. It is unmanly and I think acting like a man is good. Epsecially for men.

If a cultural Leftist honestly has a standard and holds you to it that is fine.

It is not fine when they hold you to a standard they do not care about.

Be direct and honest and ignore the shaming.

Posted by: Skarp Hedin at July 17, 2015 07:34 PM (KpmUl)

302 An honest discussion??? I just got back from the local Walmart. Try listening to conversations you hear there. THAT, incoherent babble of non-sense is your average voter! I purchased meal packets of dehydrated food. The clerk (who, one would presume is smarter than the shoppers) asked me if you needed to add water to those to make a meal. The herd needs some SERIOUS thinning.

Posted by: Vn Redleg at July 17, 2015 07:35 PM (L7quo)

303
Incidentally, the Left issues the exact same response when Mann's emails exposed him as a fraud: Who's attacking Mann's Penn State Global Warming Data? An extreme and discredited source, that's who!



Posted by: Soothsayer's Home For Imaginary Friends at July 17, 2015 07:35 PM (lyLdm)

304
Every time the Left gets fully exposed the reaction is the same: Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain!!

Posted by: Soothsayer's Home For Imaginary Friends at July 17, 2015 07:36 PM (lyLdm)

305 In order to show proper respect for the lost thread, I will refrain from making Uranus jokes for the rest of this evening and welcome others to join me.

Posted by: Weasel at July 17, 2015 07:36 PM (e3bId)

306 Our political process could use more auroch bones.

Posted by: rickl at July 17, 2015 07:33 PM (sdi6R)


I'd settle for the aurochs themselves. Several of them.

Released on the Senate floor.

Posted by: OregonMuse at July 17, 2015 07:36 PM (qkRol)

307 290
286. Ace has met AllHailEris. Buzz off.

Nice. Exactly my point. Don't upset the white women, Ace@! Say what it takes to make them happy!

Especially if you know them!?

Posted by: Skarp Hedin at July 17, 2015 07:37 PM (KpmUl)

308
Anti-Muslim Backlash?, rather.

Posted by: Soothsayer's Home For Imaginary Friends at July 17, 2015 07:37 PM (lyLdm)

309 Skarp, is Roissy telling you guys "I genuinely feel..." Is manly writing? LOL. What is the manosphere coming to?

Posted by: LadyS at July 17, 2015 07:38 PM (xYNhJ)

310
And in conclusion, Shemp was an awful stooge. And I hate fucking monkeys.

Posted by: Soothsayer's Home For Imaginary Friends at July 17, 2015 07:38 PM (lyLdm)

311 It is not fine when they hold you to a standard they do not care about.

Which, for the left, is, like, all the time.

Posted by: OregonMuse at July 17, 2015 07:38 PM (qkRol)

312 rickb223, you met one of the Siri herd. If Siri don't tell them to breath, they asphyxiate.

Posted by: Anna Puma at July 17, 2015 07:38 PM (ScdsY)

313 305
In order to show proper respect for the lost thread, I will refrain from
making Uranus jokes for the rest of this evening and welcome others to
join me.


Yeah, no. I've spent my life looking at Uranus, literally the ass end of the solar system, and now I get demoted? Now I'm what, a clown? I amuse you? Kiss my asteroids.

Posted by: Pluto at July 17, 2015 07:39 PM (LAe3v)

314 Honesty. It's such a lonely word.

Posted by: Brian Williams at July 17, 2015 07:39 PM (Gcu5R)

315 309
Skarp, is Roissy telling you guys "I genuinely feel..." Is manly writing? LOL. What is the manosphere coming to?

Textbook.

Posted by: Skarp Hedin at July 17, 2015 07:39 PM (KpmUl)

316 In order to show proper respect for the lost thread, I will refrain from making Uranus jokes for the rest of this evening and welcome others to join me.Posted by: Weasel at July 17, 2015 07:36 PM (e3bId)...................................You better no be making these jokes because I was een the prison, man.Entiendo, gringo?

Posted by: "Shorty" Guzman at July 17, 2015 07:39 PM (wAQA5)

317 *rests case*

Posted by: Loyalist Gene at July 17, 2015 06:51 PM (empCI)



The East German judge scores 2.7 on the Flounce.

Posted by: Grump928(C) at July 17, 2015 07:39 PM (rwI+c)

318 Ultimately what drove me from the GOP was the dishonesty. And they pretty much created an enemy. I get "diplomatic speech" and tact are something politicians need to do, but actually doing something the exact opposite of what you campaigned on is deception and lies.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at July 17, 2015 07:39 PM (ODxAs)

319 Rush had it right today when he said that no matter what thing could be reported about Planned Parenthood, it could be the baddest most horrific thing imaginable, the lefties would not waver a millimeter from their absolute support, and would go ballistic in their condemnation of the reporting entities.

They could be caught flaying the corpses, and blowing the skins up as dolls and balloons. No matter.

The left is invested deeply in its belief, and no scam reports will move their belief.

He compared their belief and faith to Christians, for whom any scam reports or stories or exposes about Jesus Christ, would be dismissed as heresy.

The Church of Progressivism is a religion, and its faithful are deeply bound to its tenets, with one of the principal ones being abortion.

Posted by: the littl shyning man at July 17, 2015 07:39 PM (U6f54)

320 ***"And I hate fucking monkeys."***



In all fairness, they're probably not too thrilled with the arrangement either.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at July 17, 2015 07:40 PM (xSCb6)

321 Unfortunately anyone who says immigration reform is needed immediately gets tarred as pro amnesty. An honest discussion is impossible.

Posted by: Cruzinator at July 17, 2015 07:40 PM (4SgJh)

322 Nice. Exactly my point. Don't upset the white women, Ace@! Say what it takes to make them happy!

Especially if you know them!?
Posted by: Skarp Hedin at July 17, 2015 07:37 PM (KpmUl)
---
He lives in abject fear! I smother all dissent with my social justice boobies!

Posted by: All Hail Eris, Freak Flag Flyin' at July 17, 2015 07:41 PM (jR7Wy)

323 ***"And I hate fucking monkeys."***



In all fairness, they're probably not too thrilled with the arrangement either.

Posted by: Burn the Witch

Unless they're cheeky monkeys.

Posted by: Prince Ludwig the Indestructible at July 17, 2015 07:41 PM (rVQpn)

324 Fighting for truth, justice, and boobehs!

All Hail Eris, Wonder Woman.

Posted by: Anna Puma at July 17, 2015 07:42 PM (ScdsY)

325 316 Hey Shorty, how's YOUR anus? HAHAHA!

Well, that didn't last long.

Posted by: Weasel at July 17, 2015 07:42 PM (e3bId)

326 The worm just continues to turn ...

... from "if you gore my ox, fuck you get out" to "let's stop being nice and start being real".

Who is this fellow that still doesn't beat pocket deuces without help from the board ?

Posted by: Trips at July 17, 2015 07:43 PM (H8Bf9)

327 In prison they all talk about Uranus. Uranus, Uranus, Uranus. All the fucking day long. I no wanna hear more about Uranus, OK?

Posted by: "Shorty" Guzman at July 17, 2015 07:43 PM (wAQA5)

328 Whoa! Semi track on fire big time at the El Cajon past. Highway packed with cars.

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/no-thiefs-allowed

Posted by: Bruce With a Wang! at July 17, 2015 07:44 PM (iQIUe)

329
Question to ponder this weekend:

What is the last thing the Republicans politicized and scored points off?

I don't know, either.

Posted by: Soothsayer's Home For Imaginary Friends at July 17, 2015 07:45 PM (lyLdm)

330 I believe Sleestak are misunderstood.

...and handsome in a rugged sort of way

...and they're not my father or brother so, there's that.

Posted by: Holly at July 17, 2015 07:45 PM (X9w90)

331 321
Unfortunately anyone who says immigration reform is needed immediately
gets tarred as pro amnesty. An honest discussion is impossible.

Posted by: Cruzinator


When "immigration reform" is used almost universally as code for amnesty, that's going to happen. I have yet to hear any important politician discuss "immigration reform" in the context of shutting down immigration, legal or otherwise, and that's that. The end. Nothing else.

Ergo, amnesty.

Posted by: pep at July 17, 2015 07:45 PM (LAe3v)

332 The firefighters are trying to contain the vehicle fires onthe 15 and one fighter was hosing down a car next to a semi on fire. The car's tank exploded. The fighter slowly backed away.

Oh, and they did a helo water drop on the semi. Big ass steam plume belched out and the flames billowed out.


Posted by: weft cut-loop at July 17, 2015 07:46 PM (VY8H5)

333 "If in doubt, tell the truth."

MARK TWAIN

Posted by: Samuel Clemens at July 17, 2015 07:46 PM (SJ184)

334 >> Rush had it right today when he said that no matter what thing could be reported about Planned Parenthood....lefties would not waver a millimeter from their absolute support

Honestly don't know what could be worse than that video or Gosnell (I know, not PP, but abortion). Both are downright ghoulish - the type of stuff depicted in sci-fi and horror films or books like "Coma", "V", and "The Matrix."

That's what I find so frightening (really, not doing a moral posture here) - they either completely ignore it (Gosnell) or they give it a glib brush-off like Dunham or Marcotte.

Posted by: Lizzy at July 17, 2015 07:46 PM (NOIQH)

335 321 Unfortunately anyone who says immigration reform is needed immediately gets tarred as pro amnesty. An honest discussion is impossible.

Posted by: Cruzinator at July 17, 2015 07:40 PM (4SgJh)


Because they have already poisoned the term "immigration reform." Because when it does come up and then you start looking at what they are proposing as reform it is amnesty. And also they don't usually say that. They say "comprehensive immigration reform" and make mentions of working in a bipartisan manner. So yeah an honest discussion is impossible, because they are dishonest in their goal of amnesty.

Posted by: buzzion at July 17, 2015 07:46 PM (zt+N6)

336
Eunuch was a good Sleestak.

Posted by: Soothsayer's Home For Imaginary Friends at July 17, 2015 07:46 PM (lyLdm)

337 What is the last thing the Republicans politicized and scored points off?

The Charleston shooting. Mitt used it to look statesman-like and Nikki Haley used it to guarantee herself the VP slot.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at July 17, 2015 07:47 PM (gU+Ex)

338 Like I said.

Posted by: Cruzinator at July 17, 2015 07:48 PM (4SgJh)

339 He lives in abject fear! I smother all dissent with my social justice boobies!

Posted by: All Hail Eris, Freak Flag Flyin' at July 17, 2015 07:41 PM (jR7Wy)


I disagree with you!

*waits*

Posted by: buzzion at July 17, 2015 07:48 PM (zt+N6)

340
Hey Senor Weasel, you feel very safe here in America, no?
Well, I do too!!! Ha ha ha ha

Posted by: "Shorty" Guzman at July 17, 2015 07:49 PM (wAQA5)

341 322
Nice. Exactly my point. Don't upset the white women, Ace@! Say what it takes to make them happy!



Especially if you know them!?

Posted by: Skarp Hedin at July 17, 2015 07:37 PM (KpmUl)

---

He lives in abject fear! I smother all dissent with my social justice boobies!

Why do you keep talking to me? Stop. You are only of interest to the extent that you social shamed Ace into editing an excellent point out of his post.

Posted by: Skarp Hedin at July 17, 2015 07:49 PM (KpmUl)

342 a lie goes around the world in the time the truth puts on its pants/

Posted by: steinmetz at July 17, 2015 07:50 PM (CrYC8)

343 Unfortunately anyone who says immigration reform is needed immediately gets tarred as pro amnesty.

Especially when the reform includes .. amnesty.

Posted by: Grump928(C) at July 17, 2015 07:50 PM (rwI+c)

344 331 321
Unfortunately anyone who says immigration reform is needed immediately
gets tarred as pro amnesty. An honest discussion is impossible.

Posted by: Cruzinator

When "immigration reform" is used almost universally as code for amnesty, that's going to happen. I have yet to hear any important politician discuss "immigration reform" in the context of shutting down immigration, legal or otherwise, and that's that. The end. Nothing else.

Ergo, amnesty.
Posted by: pep at July 17, 2015 07:45 PM (LAe3v)


Plus, the last two times amnesty+enforcement plans were implemented, there was amnesty and no enforcement.

We'd be idiots to believe these people now.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at July 17, 2015 07:50 PM (gU+Ex)

345 ***"Unfortunately anyone who says immigration reform is needed immediately gets tarred as pro amnesty. An honest discussion is impossible."***


Just as soon as someone who talks about immigration reform outlines a plan that isn't Amnesty, I'm all ears.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at July 17, 2015 07:50 PM (xSCb6)

346
Immigration reform, like amnesty, is bullshit.

What WILL help is simply enforcing EXISTING law--stringently and across the board.

Do this for 3 to 5 years and I'll bet the problem would be halved or better.

I submit there is no will to enforce--that has to change.

Posted by: irongrampa at July 17, 2015 07:51 PM (jeCnD)

347 I honestly hate (list is endless). And I hate lists.

Posted by: Miss Anthrope at July 17, 2015 07:51 PM (Gcu5R)

348 Posted by: Geroge Orwell's ghost at July 17, 2015 07:29 PM (HuVX+)

Have you ever seen pics at 10 weeks ?

Posted by: Cruzinator at July 17, 2015 07:52 PM (4SgJh)

349 "a lie goes around the world in the time the truth puts on its pants"

correct, it's the truth that wears the pants

Posted by: Feh at July 17, 2015 07:52 PM (Uk9e2)

350 342 Steinmetz so glad you've come back. I was worried

Posted by: MAx at July 17, 2015 07:52 PM (YJeFl)

351 335
Because they have already poisoned the term "immigration reform." Because when it does come up and then you start looking at what they are proposing as reform it is amnesty.

Posted by: buzzion at July 17, 2015 07:46 PM (zt+N6)



And look what happened with "health care reform".

Posted by: rickl at July 17, 2015 07:53 PM (sdi6R)

352 I believe that now that I'm home, I shall get drunk.
I also believe I need some pepper spray lest Anna take another fin from me.

Posted by: Tilikum Killer Assault Whale at July 17, 2015 07:53 PM (YGnSA)

353 Eunuch was a good Sleestak.
Posted by: Soothsayer's Home For Imaginary Friends at July 17, 2015 07:46 PM



...and the way he used those mitten hands of his...


*blushes*

Posted by: Holly at July 17, 2015 07:53 PM (hcXrg)

354 Fort Weasel - Code Roja!

Posted by: Weasel at July 17, 2015 07:53 PM (e3bId)

355

I objected to the Huffington Post's Decidery Decision to put Trump on in the Entertainment section


I object too, dahlink. Hooterville, Pixley, Crabwell Corners, Stankwell Falls and even the Old Haney Place are such nice places, and Oliver was just a crank.

"No hotscakes for you." was the only way to keep Oliver in line. I'm sure The Donald will learn too.

Posted by: Lisa Douglas at July 17, 2015 07:53 PM (FlRtG)

356 352 I believe that now that I'm home, I shall get drunk.
I also believe I need some pepper spray lest Anna take another fin from me.
Posted by: Tilikum Killer Assault Whale at July 17, 2015 07:53 PM (YGnSA)
---
Try the wasabi-shoyu spray!

Posted by: All Hail Eris, Freak Flag Flyin' at July 17, 2015 07:54 PM (jR7Wy)

357 We've let 20 million illegals in? Quick, seal the border, don't let me leave!

Posted by: Senator Windbag at July 17, 2015 07:54 PM (Gcu5R)

358 Unfortunately anyone who says immigration reform is needed immediately gets tarred as pro amnesty. An honest discussion is impossible.

An honest discussion would start with: "yes, I'm in favor of rewarding those who snuck across the border illegally by granting them favors that those who obeyed the law won't get, but here's why that isn't as bad as it sounds......".

That won't work politically, and they know it, hence no honest discussion.

Posted by: pep at July 17, 2015 07:54 PM (LAe3v)

359 Plus, the last two times amnesty+enforcement plans were implemented, there was amnesty and no enforcement.

We'd be idiots to believe these people now.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at July 17, 2015 07:50 PM (gU+Ex)



And the number of people that try to use Reagan on this is pathetic. You know the "Reagan did amnesty and he's still a conservative hero why are you going after these guys that are trying it again?" Because you numbnuts, Reagan's amnesty was a mistake. And when the enforcement didn't happen he knew it was a mistake. You don't double down on the mistakes.

Posted by: buzzion at July 17, 2015 07:54 PM (zt+N6)

360 He lives in abject fear! I smother all dissent with my social justice boobies!
Posted by: All Hail Eris, Freak Flag Flyin' at July 17, 2015 07:41 PM (jR7Wy)


*scribbles notes for NoVAMoMee IV*

Posted by: Sean Bannion at July 17, 2015 07:55 PM (V+kmg)

361 How did I miss that little pearl of stupidity at 280?

Posted by: Burn the Witch at July 17, 2015 07:55 PM (xSCb6)

362

Hahahaha!

Robert Spencer in PJM: Chattanooga Shooter Marinated in Self-Pity Over 'Islamophobia'

Posted by: Bruce With a Wang! at July 17, 2015 07:55 PM (iQIUe)

363 .
.
wtf?

friend-zoned again


Cha-ka no like!

Posted by: Holly at July 17, 2015 07:55 PM (hcXrg)

364 Cha-ka haz sock fail!

Posted by: Cha-ka at July 17, 2015 07:56 PM (hcXrg)

365 There's that fag talk we talked about.

Posted by: Randall Hoven at July 17, 2015 07:56 PM (HrPhZ)

366 While listening to the Brad Thor podcast, I ordered a kindle version of his latest book.

Usually, the e-book is sent within minutes.

It's been over an hour, and I still haven't gotten it.

Maybe, just maybe, the horde overloaded the system.

Support like minded people.

Posted by: seamrog at July 17, 2015 07:57 PM (XLIK3)

367 Try the wasabi-shoyu spray!

Posted by: All Hail Eris, Freak Flag Flyin'
****
I'd dress up as a clown spider at this point. My other fin is still healing from her last attack.

Posted by: Tilikum Killer Assault Whale at July 17, 2015 07:57 PM (YGnSA)

368 There was a scene in Bloodborne that really resonated with me.

Bloodborne is about random humans turning into deadly beasts, and so humans hunt the beasts to kill them.

Except one night, everyone starts turning into beasts.

So people who are partly beasts are running around stabbing things that are mostly beasts, or vice versa.

One scene is of a wolf-man in clothes stabbing another wolf-man in clothes to death with a hunter weapon. They look about the same level of beast, but neither one sees it that way.

This is basically what the internet is: we are all beasts, hunting things 'more' beastly than ourselves (or perhaps less), to destroy them, and in the process we become more beastly.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at July 17, 2015 07:57 PM (gU+Ex)

369 *scribbles notes for NoVAMoMee IV*

Notes? NOTES???

What happened to pix or it didn't happen?

Posted by: pep at July 17, 2015 07:57 PM (LAe3v)

370
a lie goes around the world in the time the truth puts on its pants/
......................................
Well, sometimes here at AoS that pants thingy may take a while.

Posted by: wth at July 17, 2015 07:58 PM (wAQA5)

371 Robert Spencer in PJM: Chattanooga Shooter Marinated in Self-Pity Over 'Islamophobia'
Posted by: Bruce With a Wang!

Isn't a phobia an irrational fear? Is it really irrational to be afraid of people constantly shouting "I keel you"?

Posted by: Prince Ludwig the Indestructible at July 17, 2015 07:59 PM (rVQpn)

372 ... and then when the lie gets there it rings the truth's doorbell and goes "you're a big sissy man" and the truth hits the lie and the lie starts crying and goes to the new york times and says "waaaaaah" and the new york times says "we'll get that big bully" and at that point i'm just shaking my head...my, my, my...

Posted by: steinmetz at July 17, 2015 07:59 PM (CrYC8)

373 Is this the gun thread?
I need a rifled choke for my Saiga 12. Anyone?

Posted by: Slugcaster at July 17, 2015 08:00 PM (empCI)

374 Robert Spencer in PJM: Chattanooga Shooter Marinated in Self-Pity Over 'Islamophobia'

He showed us!

Posted by: gewa76 at July 17, 2015 08:00 PM (S9rS1)

375 If all of the political blog sites joined together and formed a newspaper, HuffPo would be the comics section.

Posted by: Hank at July 17, 2015 08:00 PM (hA1uV)

376 Well, sometimes here at AoS that pants thingy may take a while.

Posted by: wth
****

Down with pants!!!!

Posted by: Tilikum Killer Assault Whale at July 17, 2015 08:01 PM (YGnSA)

377 What happened to pix or it didn't happen?
Posted by: pep at July 17, 2015 07:57 PM (LAe3v)


I need time to get the video crew in place.

Thermal and IR cams are also very expensive.

Jus sayin

Posted by: Sean Bannion at July 17, 2015 08:01 PM (V+kmg)

378 I honestly am drunk. Good night, cruel world.

Posted by: Hiccup. at July 17, 2015 08:01 PM (Gcu5R)

379 The issue is never the issue.

Posted by: Better Call Saul (Alinsky) at July 17, 2015 08:01 PM (YFw5T)

380 Driving that DC-7 fire-bomber must be the funnest job in the world

Posted by: MAx at July 17, 2015 08:02 PM (YJeFl)

381 Posted by: Lisa Douglas at July 17, 2015 07:53 PM (FlRtG)

I hate it when Mom and Dad fight.

Posted by: Eb Dawson at July 17, 2015 08:02 PM (W5DcG)

382 Ha HA American men are pussies they won't even give a jar head a side arm. And fuck you. You voted for this.

Posted by: redenzo at July 17, 2015 08:03 PM (WCnJW)

383 >>>If you were being direct and honest and that is how you feel then tell her to buzz off with her Leftist bs.

not every first thought I have is so perfect that it shouldn't be reconsidered; what about you?

Beyond this, even if it were the case that I was certain this behavior was marginally more pronounced among girls than boys, but this alienated an ally, what the hell skin is it off my nose to change the word to "children"?

I would be very careful of confusing the concepts of truculence and masculinity.

A man fights.

A boy fights for no reason, except to pretend he's a man who fights.

Posted by: ace at July 17, 2015 08:03 PM (bhepQ)

384 Bevel ... I could not have outlined a better example of Moral Reletavism if I tried.

Mind you, I see this shit all the time ... from both sides of the aisle.

But what do I know ? Just a Federalist with visions of Libertarianism who smokes no dope, supports no open borders, and has no party.

Posted by: Trips at July 17, 2015 08:04 PM (H8Bf9)

385 Driving that DC-7 fire-bomber must be the funnest job in the world

Posted by: MAx


Yeah. Except when they fall apart mid-air and crash.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at July 17, 2015 08:05 PM (VY8H5)

386 I would be very careful of confusing the concepts of truculence and masculinity.
Posted by: ace at July 17, 2015 08:03 PM (bhepQ)


That.

And....in case more was needed:

http://harveymansfield.org/book/manliness/

Posted by: Sean Bannion at July 17, 2015 08:05 PM (V+kmg)

387 >>>Nice. Exactly my point. Don't upset the white women, Ace@! Say what it takes to make them happy!

Especially if you know them!?

...

again, truculence =/= masculinity, inconsideration =/= guts

Posted by: ace at July 17, 2015 08:05 PM (bhepQ)

388 Yeah. Except when they fall apart mid-air and crash.



Posted by: weft cut-loop
****
Wings? Wings? We don't need no stinking wings!
Oh SH*T, yes we do! Crunch.

Posted by: Tilikum Killer Assault Whale at July 17, 2015 08:06 PM (YGnSA)

389 I'm watching an Israeli show called Srugim. It's like a Jewish orthodox Friends It takes place in Jerusalem.

Posted by: Bruce With a Wang! at July 17, 2015 08:06 PM (iQIUe)

390 Truckulents, on the other hand, can be perfectly normal kids.

Posted by: Better Call Saul (Alinsky) at July 17, 2015 08:06 PM (YFw5T)

391 politics used as a constant justification for bad behavior is not politics, it is merely self-justification for a bad person.

Posted by: ace at July 17, 2015 08:07 PM (bhepQ)

392 Is anyone else watching Gawker explode? It's pretty awesome.

Posted by: The Governor at July 17, 2015 08:08 PM (wzvkj)

393 Two of my cooks are Egyptian muslims who I have known for 20 tears. They and their families are great American immigrants.

Much more trustworthy than some American native born.

Posted by: redenzo at July 17, 2015 08:08 PM (WCnJW)

394 391 Right. It's just a RATIONALIZATION.

Posted by: MAx at July 17, 2015 08:09 PM (YJeFl)

395 Truculents? Aren't they dug up by pigs?

Posted by: Tilikum Killer Assault Whale at July 17, 2015 08:09 PM (YGnSA)

396 Isn't a phobia an irrational fear? Is it really irrational to be afraid of people constantly shouting "I keel you"?
Posted by: Prince Ludwig the Indestructible at July 17, 2015 07:59 PM (rVQpn)

===============

You mis-read it. No one threatens the muslims in this country. They threaten us.

Posted by: Bruce With a Wang! at July 17, 2015 08:09 PM (iQIUe)

397 for example, i can probably beat Eris in a physical fight, I could also beat her in a Banning Fight (since I have the ban button)...

...where are you getting the idea that I have to prove my dominance over her by challenging her needlessly?

this is where some people start to sound very crude to my ears, this schoolyard (or savage) idea that everything is about IMPOSING YOUR WILL on people, proving you're a "man" by confrontation, etc.

boys fight, men fight for good reason.

Posted by: ace at July 17, 2015 08:10 PM (bhepQ)

398 @391 Wait, what?
Wars are won by only good people?!?
How does the World end,, Ace?

Posted by: Slugcaster at July 17, 2015 08:10 PM (empCI)

399 >>> Is anyone else watching Gawker explode? It's pretty awesome.

yeah i meant to post about that... some new news?

Posted by: ace at July 17, 2015 08:10 PM (bhepQ)

400 387 >>>Nice. Exactly my point. Don't upset the white women, Ace@! Say what it takes to make them happy!

Especially if you know them!?

...

again, truculence =/= masculinity, inconsideration =/= guts

---

This cannot be overstated, and it's honestly one of the most important things a young man can learn, one of the things that is truly lost when fathers are marginalized or allowed to marginalize themselves.

I've spent the past week with my dad, my teenage sons and nephew, and my husband who at 41 is still smarting from a boyhood without a good father and that is something that's bounced around my head a lot.

Posted by: Jenny Hates Her Phone at July 17, 2015 08:12 PM (lzx+h)

401 What's going on with Gawker? I hardly ever go there, but I would love to see it crash and burn. Also, TMZ.

Posted by: OregonMuse at July 17, 2015 08:13 PM (qkRol)

402
I hate it when Mom and Dad fight.
Posted by: Eb Dawson at July 17, 2015 08:02 PM (W5DcG)
..........................................
I hate it when Mom and Mom fight. Last time they battered each other with the dildo.

Posted by: Tissue Mass that barely made it at July 17, 2015 08:13 PM (wAQA5)

403 You mis-read it. No one threatens the muslims in this country. They threaten us.
Posted by: Bruce With a Wang!

No, I got it. I was just making a general point about the ridiculousness of the word "islamophobia." It's not irrational to be afraid of/suspicious of muslims, therefore not a phobia.

Posted by: Prince Ludwig the Indestructible at July 17, 2015 08:13 PM (rVQpn)

404 The fact that from the lowest levels up most politicians and their sycophants are dunning-krugger architypes is the primary problem. Honesty will go nowhere because they know they are right.

Their puppetmasters have known for millennia that populism works, populism that promises free-shit for everyone. To paraphrase Thatcher, socialism works, until it doesn't. Honesty doesn't work the puppeteers because they will still be living in that castle on the top of the hill when everything else burns down.

Honesty doesn't work with the FSA - they want "theirs" now and do not want to hear about when it all falls apart.

Honesty only works when it gets so bad that those who want to be left alone form their own government and start vicious legal beatdowns on the above.




Posted by: Burnt Toast at July 17, 2015 08:13 PM (NaeCR)

405 ...saw gawker explode already so i went and heard the opening song to "petticoat junction" inspired by the above.

and now can't get it out of my head. thanks.

Posted by: steinmetz at July 17, 2015 08:15 PM (CrYC8)

406 >>What's going on with Gawker? I hardly ever go there, but I would love to see it crash and burn.

Well, they lost a sh#t-ton of money on their biased GamerGate coverage a few months ago, then unionized, and now they've outed Tim Geithner's brother and are getting serious blowback. Insty has some links.

Posted by: Lizzy at July 17, 2015 08:16 PM (NOIQH)

407 And, thus, the Great Progressive Struggle to get to the root of the matter, and define social norms via a grasp on the media and education.

Because that shit works.

Posted by: Trips at July 17, 2015 08:16 PM (H8Bf9)

408 Gawker ran some story about a Conde Nast bigwig that supposedly shelled out for a night (or weekend or whatevs) with a gay porn star.

Naturally those involved took it with the natural good grace one would expect from such communities and...wait, just kidding, it stirred up a shitstorm that caused editorial to yank the piece.

Which sets poorly enough with the newly unionized staff at the Gawkerplex that it has, in turn, set off a new shitstorm.

And Hurricane Hulkster is still lurking.

I need more popcorn...

Posted by: Brother Cavil, by the Pale Moon light at July 17, 2015 08:17 PM (m9V0o)

409 If you don't have two rational people, and there are two people, it turns into an enforcement problem.
Gun thread?
Or, remain in the Deep Blue Cities until you die.

Posted by: You Need Two at July 17, 2015 08:17 PM (empCI)

410 401 What's going on with Gawker? I hardly ever go there, but I would love to see it crash and burn. Also, TMZ.

---

They posted a needless story about an exec at Conde Naste (who owns Reddit, the Gretchen Weiners to Gawker's Regina George) texting a gay prostitute with whom he was considering an affair. There was some blackmail attempt on the part of the prostitute (whose identity gawker protected). The readers rightly had a fit and spammed all the other articles' comments and all the writers' twitters

Posted by: Jenny Hates Her Phone at July 17, 2015 08:17 PM (lzx+h)

411
Truculents? Aren't they dug up by pigs?
................................
We've been over this before. I'm hoping you bring it back Monday after a couple of dump runs. With a full tank.

Posted by: wth at July 17, 2015 08:17 PM (wAQA5)

412 When I was younger, I strove to find common ground with those on the Left. For example, they said they wanted the "little guy" to get an even break; I said I shared that goal, but that I had a different path to it. I was very seldom successful in convincing any of them of anything, but I was at least able to have a cordial discussion most of the time.

Nowadays, it is virtually impossible to have a cordial discussion about anything remotely political, even with people who substantially agree with me. Kerry made "nuance" a dirty word among the Right, so I find myself arguing with other conservatives as often as I do with Progressives.

In other words, I more or less agree with you, Ace. Even though I disagree with you on some specific issues, I respect your position, especially since I've seen you over the past 8 years of my presence here move drastically towards my view of things.

I see no profit in any discussion with the Left at this juncture, but I do believe that we on the Right must strive to emphasize our consonances, and work cordially to resolve our dissonances.

Posted by: Otis Criblecoblis at July 17, 2015 08:18 PM (IAe6t)

413 347 I honestly hate (list is endless). And I hate lists.

Posted by: Miss Anthrope at July 17, 2015 07:51 PM (Gcu5R)


I did a version of the Tom T. Hall song "I Love" called "I Hate" and it was seven hours long.

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at July 17, 2015 08:18 PM (oFCZn)

414 Nice piece, Ace.

Posted by: rebel flounder at July 17, 2015 08:19 PM (Vf5rR)

415 We left Reason and Rationalism about 4 exits back. ..
Hold on, it's going to be a bumpy ride.
Posted by: Beorn at July 17, 2015 06:17 PM (dGF4J)

I'm afraid so.

Posted by: rrpjr at July 17, 2015 08:20 PM (s/yC1)

416 >>>What's going on with Gawker? I hardly ever go there, but I would love to see it crash and burn. Also, TMZ.

i'll do a quickie post, hang on.

Posted by: ace at July 17, 2015 08:20 PM (bhepQ)

417 ciao

Posted by: steinmetz at July 17, 2015 08:22 PM (CrYC8)

418 i'll do a quickie post, hang on.

Posted by: ace at July 17, 2015 08:20 PM (bhepQ)




TWSS

Posted by: Country Singer at July 17, 2015 08:24 PM (nL0sw)

419 ace, this is brilliant. Seriously, and honestly, heh, brilliant.

Thank you for saying this.

Posted by: alexthechick - Come to us SMOD at July 17, 2015 08:24 PM (IrByp)

420 Why can't Ray Charles see his friends?





Because he's married.




Or because he's dead, you morons.

Posted by: rebel flounder at July 17, 2015 08:24 PM (Vf5rR)

421 wow this is still up.

anyway

i don't bother arguing anything on the net anymore. i state my piece and fuck you, period. it applies here as well.

everywhere has become a stifling echo chamber. the good thing is that it's all something you can walk away from.

Posted by: Bigby's Knuckle Sandwich at July 17, 2015 08:26 PM (Cq0oW)

422 383
>>>If you were being direct and honest and that is how you feel then tell her to buzz off with her Leftist bs.



not every first thought I have is so perfect that it shouldn't be reconsidered; what about you?



Beyond this, even if it were the case that I was certain this
behavior was marginally more pronounced among girls than boys, but this
alienated an ally, what the hell skin is it off my nose to change the
word to "children"?



I would be very careful of confusing the concepts of truculence and masculinity.



A man fights.



A boy fights for no reason, except to pretend he's a man who fights.


Yes Ace. Mind you manners and the schoolmarms.

Manners are schoolmarms aren't a significant concern to men. Or, didn't used to be.

Achilles was still Achilles in his tent. He was in his tent because he was Achilles.

Posted by: Skarp Hedin at July 17, 2015 08:27 PM (KpmUl)

423 Who on the podcast has the "Valley Girl" cadence?

I agree with most of the points, but the tone is similar to: OH my God. AS if.( ? at end)

I'm from flyover country, sounds weird to me.

Posted by: seamrog at July 17, 2015 08:27 PM (XLIK3)

424 I love that our new quasi troll confuses AHE's mockery with engagement, i.e. "talking to"

Posted by: lurkingestlurker at July 17, 2015 08:27 PM (ASYUV)

425 Achilles was still Achilles in his tent. He was in his tent because he was Achilles.

Fuck. Delusions of adequacy..

Achilles is here, boys.

Posted by: Grump928(C) at July 17, 2015 08:29 PM (rwI+c)

426
Someone's an asskiss..

Posted by: Soothsayer's Home For Imaginary Friends at July 17, 2015 08:29 PM (lyLdm)

427 "But I have a suspicion--maybe I'm wrong; I often am--that the initial "Oh, dear me!" pearl clutching that Trump's demeanor induces will give way to acceptance."
Posted by: Mr. Estrada at July 17, 2015 07:22 PM (RPsRI)

I think you may be right about this. As a society we seem past the point where crassness was a prima facie disqualification. It could even be, when combined as it is in his case with an equal cargo of cut-the-shit straight talk (even given the BS), an advantage. Trump is Trump's worst enemy.

Posted by: rrpjr at July 17, 2015 08:31 PM (s/yC1)

428 @422

Good Lord. Achilles was also an ahole. Hector was a far more sympathetic character, as was Diomedes.

Posted by: lurkingestlurker at July 17, 2015 08:31 PM (ASYUV)

429
We need our own TMZ.

I really can't believe no one wants to do a our own go fund me thing.

We need to do our own shit and stop subsidizing our enemies who want to enslave or kill us off.

Posted by: Soothsayer's Home For Imaginary Friends at July 17, 2015 08:31 PM (lyLdm)

430 426
Someone's an asskiss..

Posted by: Soothsayer's Home For Imaginary Friends at July 17, 2015 08:29 PM (lyLdm


Rule of Acquisition #33: It never hurts to suck up to the boss.

Posted by: buzzion at July 17, 2015 08:32 PM (zt+N6)

431
Anyone else watching Shark Tank?

Posted by: Soothsayer's Home For Imaginary Friends at July 17, 2015 08:32 PM (lyLdm)

432 I'm watching Dominion, which I think will be better this season than it has been.

Posted by: Grump928(C) at July 17, 2015 08:33 PM (rwI+c)

433 How about we all just say what we really believe, and see how that works for a change?

Done it a few times. I seem to be getting away with it!

Posted by: Barack "The Choom King" Obama at July 17, 2015 08:33 PM (FcR7P)

434 425
Achilles was still Achilles in his tent. He was in his tent because he was Achilles.



Fuck. Delusions of adequacy..



Achilles is here, boys.


Why did you think I was saying I was Achilles? I am no Achilles. But he is the model. He is what we should aspire to.

Do you disagree with my point?

I like Ace. I thought this was one of his all-time posts. I agree with it. That is why I am so insistent on the point.

Posted by: Skarp Hedin at July 17, 2015 08:33 PM (KpmUl)

435 Grump ... He's got a point.

Given the current path we're on, who do YOU want to emulate ?

The current Modern Gentleman, or Achilles ?

Posted by: Trips at July 17, 2015 08:34 PM (H8Bf9)

436 Gawker's basically getting eaten by its own kind because they outed a poor, defenseless executive as being gay.

It's fitting, and ties into the beasts killing beasts aspect of the internet.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at July 17, 2015 08:34 PM (gU+Ex)

437

TN Terrorist was born in Kuwait

but he was Palestinian

his mother and father divorced in 2009 when he beat her, raped her and wanted a second wife in "Palestine"

yet the father was taken off a watch list and allowed to be a "Special Policeman" for the Chattanooga PD in 2012

Posted by: ThunderB at July 17, 2015 08:35 PM (zOTsN)

438 gawker piece up.

Posted by: ace at July 17, 2015 08:35 PM (bhepQ)

439 Achilles was a heel.

Posted by: Pappy O'Daniel at July 17, 2015 08:37 PM (oVJmc)

440 Given the current path we're on, who do YOU want to emulate ?

The current Modern Gentleman, or Achilles ?



Conan.

Posted by: rickb223 at July 17, 2015 08:37 PM (h6BP/)

441 428
@422



Good Lord. Achilles was also an ahole. Hector was a far more sympathetic character, as was Diomedes.

Being the most sympathetic is not the best thing. Hector was the Best of the Trojans but not The Best of them all.

And yes. Achilles was without question an asshole.

Posted by: Skarp Hedin at July 17, 2015 08:37 PM (KpmUl)

442 Let us all support Hillary

to be put in a pillory

past sins not forgotten

with veggies rotten

for those this rankles ?

go kiss her kankles

(fractured fairy tales for now)

Posted by: seamrog at July 17, 2015 08:37 PM (XLIK3)

443 119
"if you ever again try to interfere with me or cross my path it will be at the peril of your life."
General Forrest to General Braxton Bragg.

Posted by: BumperStickerist at July 17, 2015 06:46 PM (0MJOU)



Bob Dylan used that line in a song once. I can't remember which one off the top of my head. I'll have to look for it.

Posted by: rickl at July 17, 2015 08:37 PM (sdi6R)

444

its at the Daily Mail

and Bigby you were ranting raving and name calling just yesterday about how marines couldnt be armed at recruiting centers because of Posse Commitatus

Posted by: ThunderB at July 17, 2015 08:38 PM (zOTsN)

445 So, gawker publishes some gossip about it's parent company's CEO, takes it down with a half ass insulting apology. Smart.....

Posted by: Bruce With a Wang! at July 17, 2015 08:38 PM (iQIUe)

446 You know Howard had to edit out all the despondent drunkeness of Conan?

Posted by: Skarp Hedin at July 17, 2015 08:39 PM (KpmUl)

447 440
Given the current path we're on, who do YOU want to emulate ?



The current Modern Gentleman, or Achilles ?







Conan.


Well we should all agree that the Modern Gentleman is a disaster of a choice.

Posted by: Skarp Hedin at July 17, 2015 08:40 PM (KpmUl)

448 Here, or not too far away (but they have choppers), the Socialists are already in control. Sanctuary Cities? Try Illegal Breeder Farm. (Taxpayer expense.)
So, really, innit gun thread time?
When the dead vote, and actual illegals are legalized and self-defense is, at best, tricky, innit time for the gun thread?
When common sense is an old dead white man thing, don't those with common sense want a gun thread?
[Elsewhere, see the targeting information.]

Posted by: Drag Your Shotgun Through the +1-degree C. Mud? at July 17, 2015 08:40 PM (empCI)

449 g'early evenin', 'rons

Posted by: AltonJackson at July 17, 2015 08:40 PM (KCxzN)

450 The National Socialists always eat their own in the end.

Just ask Ernst Rohm.

And I'm tired of calling them Progressives.

Posted by: Trips at July 17, 2015 08:41 PM (H8Bf9)

451 439
Achilles was a heel.


Posted by: Pappy O'Daniel at July 17, 2015 08:37 PM (oVJmc)

He was the greatest of the Greeks and you forget the end of the story with Priam.

Posted by: Skarp Hedin at July 17, 2015 08:42 PM (KpmUl)

452 Skarp, how much do you disagree with Eris's point that the behavior in question is not an innately feminine trait? Do you think ace does not honestly agree (to some extent) with her, and that he is changing his wording dishonestly?

Ace has also done something similar with thoughtless use of the word "retarded" in the past: a parent (I think a dad, not sure) of a kid with DS brought up the issue in a way similar to how Eris did and ace reconsidered

Posted by: Jenny Hates Her Phone at July 17, 2015 08:42 PM (lzx+h)

453 peeks in

I can still post here, right?? I'm a dreaded Christianist. On all the social issues I'm probably in disagreement with Ace. I would still have a beer with him. Well, after being all judgmental and shit. I am a Christianist after all. :-)

Posted by: Puddleglum at July 17, 2015 08:42 PM (bD/KL)

454 445 So, gawker publishes some gossip about it's parent company's CEO, takes it down with a half ass insulting apology. Smart.....

---

Not it's own parent company, it's rival's (Reddit's) parent company

Posted by: Jenny Hates Her Phone at July 17, 2015 08:43 PM (lzx+h)

455
452 Well maybe not feminine but EFFEMINATE. Ther kind of arguing boys who were raised by women use.
Because back in the day they'd have had that nastiness beaten out of them. Man code.

Posted by: MAx at July 17, 2015 08:44 PM (YJeFl)

456 443
Bob Dylan used that line in a song once. I can't remember which one off the top of my head. I'll have to look for it.
Posted by: rickl at July 17, 2015 08:37 PM (sdi6R)



Got it on the first try:

http://www.bobdylan.com/us/songs/floater-too-much-ask

That's a great song. It's from the 2001 album "Love and Theft". It sounds like it's from the 1930s.

Posted by: rickl at July 17, 2015 08:45 PM (sdi6R)

457
and Bigby you were ranting raving and name calling just yesterday about how marines couldnt be armed at recruiting centers because of Posse Commitatus


======

yep i stated my piece and people started up with me.

do you have the impression i care? i don't.

you all are just as bad as the left. get a mirror.

Posted by: Bigby's Knuckle Sandwich at July 17, 2015 08:47 PM (Cq0oW)

458 Yuengling Summer Wheat is a reasonably priced beer that is very very good. Well, those on the East coast its reasonably priced. Can't speak for the rest of the nation. Its a fine beer.

Posted by: Puddleglum at July 17, 2015 08:49 PM (bD/KL)

459 Those Marines stopped the bullets for civilians again. Amirite?

Posted by: Book of Amos Singletary-type at July 17, 2015 08:49 PM (empCI)

460 With respect, Ace, your plea for rationality is displaced. Mass modern secular liberal democracy is nothing more than political pro-wrestling. "Having a discussion" and "rational discourse" are merely Trojan Horses to be used against those who abide by the rules. The real power lies with those who shape the passions, opinions, and habits of the masses, and they are playing for keeps. Just ask the Vendee and the Kulaks. There is no live and let live in this world. Failure to recognize this and fight accordingly is why Libertarians and Conservatives have always been at the mercy of those dragging the Overton window.

"When I am weaker than you, I ask for my freedom, because that is according to your principles; when I am stronger than you, I take away your freedom, because that is according to mine."

Posted by: SF at July 17, 2015 08:50 PM (/ccxi)

461 458 Yuengling Summer Wheat is a reasonably priced beer that is very very good. Well, those on the East coast its reasonably priced. Can't speak for the rest of the nation. Its a fine beer.
Posted by: Puddleglum at July 17, 2015 08:49 PM (bD/KL)


I just bought a case tonight. I kept hearing commercials on the radio and they had the desired effect. I haven't tried one yet because they're still not cold.

Posted by: rickl at July 17, 2015 08:52 PM (sdi6R)

462
***(was Einstein right when he proved General Relativity, or was he right only when the Physics Cool Kids said he was?)***

Great thoughts Ace - absolutely. We have to be PAINFULLY honest on every issue, no matter the end. That's why the progs are deeply invested and entrenched in the schools, the media and the "the culture". They own it all except radio and some internet and still have to "lie" just to get 51%.
But it works for them.
And that is the crux of the entire society.
I think a lot of us are trying to take that approach.
If the cool kids are "Lena Dunham" and her ilk at HuffPo, shooting the truth back at them should work but, ***Discuss things honestly? When your debate opponents argue men are women and white is black?***

I think we're all still listening - but not much seems to be working these days. President HistoricFirst beat Romney by 5 million votes. If Trump pulls a Perot ( got 20 million votes ) then it's over, even if he doesn't "get it".

And I don't think we'll survive President FirstWomen.
I'm surprised we made it this far.

Posted by: GBruno at July 17, 2015 08:56 PM (u49WF)

463 SF ... That ought to be at the top of the page. That's the heart of the matter, right there.

How to square it ? I do not know. I believed in Federalism ... but it has failed.

Hell of a post.

Posted by: Trips at July 17, 2015 08:59 PM (H8Bf9)

464 452
<i>Skarp, how much do you disagree with Eris's point that the behavior in
question is not an innately feminine trait? Do you think ace does not
honestly agree (to some extent) with her, and that he is changing his
wording dishonestly?



Ace has also done something similar with thoughtless use of the word
"retarded" in the past: a parent (I think a dad, not sure) of a kid
with DS brought up the issue in a way similar to how Eris did and ace
reconsidered</i>

I will not go down your gender rabbit hole. I reject your assumptions.

It is a trait of tweener girls. They are the paradigmatic example. They exhibit that trait in the most paradigmatic way. That is undeniable. It is not a good thing. It is discouraged in them for a reason. It is worse when adult women exhibit it. It is much worse when adult men exhibit it. It is to be discouraged.

There are traits of teen boys which are not good things. This is not one of them. I use those where appropriate.

Posted by: Skarp Hedin at July 17, 2015 09:04 PM (KpmUl)

465 "That strikes me as an extraordinarily bad idea..."
-- Dr. Egon Spengler, "Ghost Busters"

Posted by: mojo at July 17, 2015 09:06 PM (OmBeX)

466 You don't lose me on the pro-choice thing. I used to be pro-choice too. I believed all that stuff they told me about keeping abortions rare and how you need them in cases of rape and incest. It was the partial birth abortion that got to me. How can you possibly justify that? And it was all lies. It wasn't a rare procedure. They do it all the time.

Here's the truth: it's 2015 and we have great contraceptives these days. You have a lot of choices and they are inexpensive and easy to get. So we should be seeing abortion rates plummet. I'm especially concerned that we have high levels of abortion amongst blacks and hispanics. Don't they understand that Planned Parenthood targets them? And then there was Gosnell. Yes, the pictures should make you queasy and yes, open your eyes and look at them. This is the business they are in and this is what they do. And they care so little about women's health that they want to do it on an outpatient basis, in filthy uninspected buildings. Women die from "safe" abortions, just like they did in the back room days. If we are crazy for noticing this stuff, what are they for walking around with their eyes tightly shut??

Posted by: notsothoreau at July 17, 2015 09:23 PM (5HBd1)

467 Nicely done. Stuck with me. And just like we do not want to see what is really involved in late stage abortions and then ripping the fetus apart for "science" we do not want to see with this President and this Administration America has gone over to the dark side.

Posted by: gracepmc at July 17, 2015 09:24 PM (DMQhB)

468 Bevel Lemelisk @ 337- Nikki Haley used the Charleston shootings to guarantee herself a VP slot? Dude. What are you smoking? I want some of that. That governor position is the last one she ever holds in S.C. Believe it or not there are not enough blacks there to elect her for anything else. And that's if they vote for her even if she becomes a real democrat. Instead of an ersatz republican. Caveat- I realize she probably took down the flag to avoid race riots (I remember Orangeburg) in S.C. But what she should have done was to state in no uncertain terms the CBF had nothing to do with the killings. It was a crazy evil bastard who did those killings. I intend to see he gets the death penalty if found guilty. Next question.

Posted by: Eromero at July 17, 2015 09:26 PM (go5uR)

469 460
With respect, Ace, your plea for rationality is displaced. Mass modern
secular liberal democracy is nothing more than political pro-wrestling.
"Having a discussion" and "rational discourse" are merely Trojan Horses
to be used against those who abide by the rules. The real power lies
with those who shape the passions, opinions, and habits of the masses,
and they are playing for keeps. Just ask the Vendee and the Kulaks.
There is no live and let live in this world. Failure to recognize this
and fight accordingly is why Libertarians and Conservatives have always
been at the mercy of those dragging the Overton window.

"When I
am weaker than you, I ask for my freedom, because that is according to
your principles; when I am stronger than you, I take away your freedom,
because that is according to mine."

Powerful stuff. I think the pro-wrestling or wrasslin' is spot on. I think about the similarities often. Pro-wrestlers are quite honest about the con and their disdain for the punters. And the extreme and absurdly mannered style is exactly what they use... But they are con-man and sucker at the same time. So much of their argumentation style is for their won benefit. It is "the feeding of the Id" as I call it. That is why they are so tireless... The style works and lights up their Id's like the Fouth of July...


Posted by: Skarp Hedin at July 17, 2015 09:34 PM (KpmUl)

470 That's the problem Ace. Socons have always said what we truly thought. You just don't like it. Why would we help you? What can you possibly offer us.

Nothing.

Posted by: James at July 17, 2015 09:35 PM (SPIK4)

471 470
That's the problem Ace. Socons have always said what we truly thought.
You just don't like it. Why would we help you? What can you possibly
offer us.



Nothing.


I for one think the more honest Ace gets, the more so-con he will become. Cognitive Dissonance pains Ace I think...

Posted by: Skarp Hedin at July 17, 2015 09:41 PM (KpmUl)

472 Politicians are trained from job-infancy to dissemble and won't be able to change.

The press and cultural institutions are what are really at issue here: can we get the press to be more honest about their overwhelming bias and monolithic socialist nature? Not a single one of them is interested in profit. Fox used to be, but then the Justice Department started investigating Roger Ailes and Murdoch's issues in England endangered some of his News Corp assets here, so they obviously made a deal.

Universities, like the press, do not permit conservatives to exist in undergraduate education. The best schools are the most monolithic and anti-conservative. I went to a school where a bunch of followers of a famous conservative, Leo Strauss, ran the History and Government departments but all those professors are gone. Only leftists are there now. Dartmouth, where one of my kids went to school, had many famously conservative faculty members and Trustees until the University and its alums sued each other and the University successfully eliminated the alumni-elected Trustees. Presto! No more conservatives. The Ivy Leagues is entirely Left now.

We need to root out the socialists. It must become a virtue again to be anti-totalitarian. Make them unemployable.
Posted by: Marie Harf


80 Sorry about the residual Harf sock
Posted by: MTF


No need to apologize. That was so fucking hot my junk's gonna need a week to recover.

Posted by: Oedipus at July 17, 2015 09:45 PM (CXLVd)

473 If Snooki or OJ's lawyer's widow's third boob, or for that matter any other worthless piece-of-... "reality"show "celebrity" concocts some bull... publicity stunt, wht the ... should that be conflated with "news"?

Posted by: iugfv at July 17, 2015 10:25 PM (VnJQY)

474 Lena is gross. On the inside just as much as the outside.

Gross little troll.

Posted by: Community organizer at July 17, 2015 10:37 PM (Bjvsz)

475 I really enjoyed reading this think piece, ace, and I feel that it touches upon my biggest source of pessimism about the US's future -- The lying. The constant lying from those in charge, from those we are supposed to have some faith in their good intentions.

Small lies are a social lubricant and can cause some butthurt when exposed, but are generally well intentioned. Big lies are the rule of the day now though. And what is lying but the opposite of honesty. There's no such thing as an honest liar.

One of the greatest things about this blog, and you, is the candor.

Posted by: GnuBreed at July 17, 2015 10:59 PM (HIyIj)

476 Okay, here's some raw truth:

Most conservatives are white. Whites are rapidly becoming a minority in the United States. Non-whites tend to be liberal, and they also tend to be less than fond of whites.

Therefore, it is in the best interests of white people - especially white conservatives - that white people remain the majority in the United States. Therefore, we need to stop illegal immigration (which comes primarily from non-white countries), and we need to restrict legal immigration (which also comes primarily from non-white countries).

If we don't do either, we whites will shortly become a much-loathed minority in the nation our ancestors created and built, and our children and grandchildren will grow up in a one-party socialist state where they are viewed with contempt by the majority.

Blunt enough for ya?

Good. Now, understand that I am not alone in this opinion. And now you understand the support for the Trump campaign.

Any questions?

Posted by: Justfactualthings at July 18, 2015 01:05 AM (oCxXI)

477 I think this is spot on. I've always thought that many of the people I meet who identify as liberal only take that position because they want to sit at the cool kids table in the cafeteria.

Posted by: Hullabaloser at July 18, 2015 08:05 AM (PvXvl)

478 The ancient Greeks would hold votes on which politician they would exile.

We need to revive and expand this practice.
Perhaps it should also involve a trebuchet and a volcano.

Posted by: Jack O'Spades at July 18, 2015 08:43 AM (xQZ/Y)

479 You want the truth? Here you go. Ship all the illegals back. Every damned one of them, along with their anchor babies, which should be "un-anchored" by force of law. No two American parents, no citizenship.

End all permanent immigration to the U.S. for 25 years and stop using any language but English as a medium for instruction in anything but specified foreign language courses.

Make it mandatory to use e-Verify for all hiring of employees in this country. Stop all Muslim immigration of any sort and ban the operation of mosques in the U.S. on the basis that Islam is not a religion but a political philosophy whose core text advocates behavior clearly contravening U.S. law.

I want to make it impossible for a judge at any level to overrule a popularly passed referendum.

I want to forcibly deport all foreign-born criminals AND THEIR IMMEDIATE FAMILIES back to country of origin AT THE EXPENSE OF SAID COUNTRY. If the country of origin should balk, refuse to issue any further visas for immigration from their country until they take their nationals back.

I want the State Department purged, the EPA, HUD and the Department of Education abolished outright, the IRS gutted, and the rest of the Federal Government cut by 50%.

I want the U.S. Congress to telecommute from their home districts and to meet in DC no more than two months per year. The elected representatives of the United States need to spend their time among the people who represented them, not the lobbyists and sycophants inhabiting the District of Criminals.

I want to make drug tests mandatory for all welfare recipients. Choose to do drugs, fine, but no welfare benefits from the taxpayers are allowed.

End the war on drugs and absolutely forbid civil forfeiture of assets. If the government at any level intends to take something from someone, they need to justify it and level a formal legal charge to show why they have taken such action.

End prosecutorial immunity. Any prosecutor who is found to have leveled an unjustified charge at an individual gets tried him/her self.

I want any government employee found guilty of malfeasance in office to lose all pension rights and forfeit any chance of returning to government service.

I want to see voter fraud earn a minimum five-year sentence for voters and a 25-year sentence without possibility of parole for election officials.

How's that for honesty, Ace?

Posted by: mac at July 18, 2015 12:53 PM (ilMXv)

480 30
Link to pro choice thread please?

Posted by: Some Dude at July 17, 2015 06:22 PM (+FSPU)

Here's the linkhttp://acecomments.mu.nu/?post=357873
Just search the comments " ace " and you'll find it

Posted by: Matt at July 18, 2015 03:12 PM (UeLuh)

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