DOOM: A Serious House On Serious Earth

I been gone too long, my groovy babies. Real life doth conspire to keep us apart, but given the spectacularly DOOM-laden week gone by, I thought I should bestir myself and vent my spleen. (TRIGGER WARNING: Some Xtianist God-bothering occurs in the below text. Please keep a paper bag handy so that if your outrage causes you to hyperventilate, you can breathe into it until some semblance of emotional equilibrium is restored.)

In the wake of the Supreme Court's gay-marriage decision, there is a lot of angst among Christians about what this latest defeat in the culture war portends. Some advocate withdrawing from the culture entirely; others advocate various forms of civil disobedience. As for me...I simply feel weary. Christians have been fighting secularism in the West for more than a century now, and losing ground the entire time.

Matthew Arnold wrote "Dover Beach" more than a century ago, but it could have been written yesterday:

The Sea of Faith

Was once, too, at the full, and round earth's shore

Lay like the folds of a bright girdle furled.

But now I only hear

Its melancholy, long, withdrawing roar,

Retreating, to the breath

Of the night-wind, down the vast edges drear

And naked shingles of the world.

The poet Philip Larkin brought his secularist's fear and suppressed awe to God's house in his poem "Church Going":

A serious house on serious earth it is,

In whose blent air all our compulsions meet,

Are recognized, and robed as destinies.

And that much never can be obsolete,

Since someone will forever be surprising

A hunger in himself to be more serious,

And gravitating with it to this ground,

Which, he once heard, was proper to grow wise in,

If only that so many dead lie round.

Religious faith is serious, and only takes root in serious folk. To me and many of my Christian cohort, the diminution of Christianity in the West coincides more or less with a loss of seriousness in the West. Not just a decay of virtue (both public and private), but a decay of gladness, hope and optimism -- a loss of belief in the ideal that being moral, upright, kind, steadfast, and honest is something to be aspired to even when it brings no direct benefit. Even when no one is watching (for God is always watching). There has been a progressive (in both senses of the word) loss in the belief that there is pneuma as well as sarx and soma -- and that pneuma is the most important part.

A church is a serious house on serious earth...but much of the earth is no longer serious.

But we do not despair, we Christians. The faith will go on -- if not here, then somewhere else. Our religion is not a game of numbers, to be given up when the score goes against us. Over the course of two millennia, we have faced graver threats. Every Christian is taught over and over again that our lot on earth is hardship -- we are commanded to go forth even so and carry the Word with us. (1 Peter 4:11-12)

The recent failure of a SpaceX mission was a lousy end to a lousy week. That's three ISS cargo runs that have failed in the past year, for those keeping track: an Orbital Antares rocket exploded on the pad; a Russian Progress freighter was lost; and now a SpaceX resupply mission has failed. For some weird reason, the space-launch industry goes through these periods of high failure-rates -- there doesn't seem to be any common denominator. Just Murphy exerting his invincible will. NASA assures us that the ISS has enough supplies to last for quite a while, but the margins have narrowed significantly.

Has this Greek ~~tragedy~~farce finally entered the final act?

"This is humiliating," said Athanasios, an 80-year-old former army officer. "I used to receive a monthly pension of 1,500 euros and now I have to line up for hours to receive 120? This is unfair."

You elected the Socialist government now driving your country into the abyss, friend. If you believe as I do that people in democracies get the government they deserve, then this is perfectly fair. Socialism is a one-way ticket to misery and failure. As George Will put it, "There cannot be too many socialist smashups."

It's easy (and completely justified) to blame the Greeks for their predicament, but the Greeks are simply the vanguard in a long line of nations who have buried themselves under mountains of unpayable debt. (Puerto Rico is in pretty much the same straits as Greece financially, but since they use the US dollar and the US government is their sovereign, they will not face nearly the same downside as the Greeks.)

All beneficiaries of government largesse should remember one thing: a promise to pay benefits does not guarantee an ability to pay benefits.

The government is not a person -- it does not love you, or particularly care about your welfare, or worry about how well you're getting on. To the government, you are a ledger entry and that's pretty much it. The government is a set of rules and processes overseen by politicians and bureaucrats who have absolutely no personal investment in your welfare. Your value to the government is a statistical one, insofar as you are a member of some larger collection: part of a voting bloc, a certain class, or interest group. Most governments aren't evil, but they're not benevolent either. It is a colossal mistake to ascribe personal feelings or motivations to any government. Individuals within that government, sure, but not the government itself.

I've said it many, many times, but it bears repeating: the Euro was a horrible idea right from the start. It was a system so fragile and brittle that failure was inevitable -- the only surprise it that the Eurozone has managed to stagger along for this long without a major rupture.

Next up in the "California is boned" pageant: the city of Richmond! Let's give them a big hand!

Before I close, I want to say a few words about debt. I'm seeing a lot of hyperbole from my hard-money and libertarian friends that there is something intrinsically wrong with debt, and that one should never go into debt unless at gravest need -- and maybe not even then.

This is silly.

Why do I say this?

Because debt is simply one side of the coin; the other side of the coin is investment. You cannot borrow money unless someone is willing to loan it, and you cannot loan money unless there are borrowers. Without debt, there is no investment. Without investment, wealth cannot be created and the economy cannot grow.

People run into problems with debt in the same way they run into problems with food: they eat too much. The problem with debt are not intrinsic to the concept, but in the inability of many human beings to manage it. As in so much else in economics, debt is a behavioral problem. Many policy answers to the "debt problem" try to focus on the incentives of debt, but the problem is that the government wants people to go into debt -- requires them to go into debt, in fact. A consumer-driven economy in a fiat-money system cannot function without high levels of debt at all levels; this churn is needed to keep money in motion and provide opportunities for the investment side of the ledger. (Though in a ZIRP environment, the "investment" side of the equation is barely worthwhile, and it is this asymmetrical relationship that is at the root of our economy's underperformance.)

Debt is much like any other intoxicant: its usage requires self-control. Lacking that, all the laws and regulations in the world won't stop people from getting into trouble with debt -- as with a habitual drunkard, the only remedy is to cut them off.

Posted by: Monty at 09:45 AM

Comments

(Jump to bottom of comments)

1 Morning all.

Posted by: Nevergiveup at July 01, 2015 09:51 AM (/tNwW)

2 Not first because I actually read the post.

Monty, I sort of agree/disagree with your thoughts on debt. I agree in that that debt works that way for people but I disagree when it comes to Government, especially the Federal Government that can in essence "print" it's own money.

Posted by: The Great White Scotsman at July 01, 2015 09:54 AM (iONHu)

3 Gold standard.
Or at least Uranium-235 standard.

Posted by: @votermom at July 01, 2015 09:56 AM (RHnyk)

4 Words heard from AtC as she rested on a sternum:

I'm a Hobbit, I'm a Hobbit
I'm a Hobbit!

I'm a Hobbit, I'm a Hobbit
I'm a Hobbit!

I'm a Hobbit, I'm a Hobbit
I'm a Hobbit!

I'm a Hobbit!

Posted by: wrg500 at July 01, 2015 09:57 AM (sgrzZ)

5 And, if you're a Bible-believing individual, you have to keep in mind that it's all been foretold.

Posted by: Pappy O'Daniel at July 01, 2015 09:57 AM (oVJmc)

6 The socialist Greeks chose their fate. Boo hoo.

If they want to continue their charade of an economy, they should refloat the drachma.

Portugal may be next.

Posted by: Feh at July 01, 2015 09:58 AM (I3zSa)

7 Governor Walker hasn't exactly covered himself in glory with his handling of the " John Doe" situation.

http://tinyurl.com/pdalu2s

Posted by: steevy at July 01, 2015 09:58 AM (sPO3u)

8 Anyone got popcorn for watching the Greece drama?

Posted by: Draki at July 01, 2015 09:58 AM (0eidE)

9 DOOM!!! YES! Ok, time to read post.

Posted by: jjod at July 01, 2015 09:58 AM (0r7PZ)

10 Portugal may be next.

Posted by: Feh at July 01, 2015 09:58 AM (I3zSa)

Closely followed by Spain and Italy.

Posted by: wrg500 at July 01, 2015 09:59 AM (sgrzZ)

11 Happy July!

Posted by: Beth M at July 01, 2015 09:59 AM (kiy9d)

12 7 Ah damn it,they wont let you read the full story.Read the excerpts at Instapundit.

Posted by: steevy at July 01, 2015 09:59 AM (sPO3u)

13 Can I just say that I do not think of faith as strictly the purview of Christians, nor are Christians the only ones in this country who are suffering from the effects of the aggressively anti-faith movement? You don't have to be Christian to despair at the disintegration of traditional family (or American) values.

Posted by: Y-not on the phone at July 01, 2015 10:00 AM (RWGcK)

14 The whole European Union concept was stupid from the start. I always thought so.

Posted by: @votermom at July 01, 2015 10:00 AM (8iiwv)

15 It's probably time for me to find a church to attend. If this war is going hot, I want there to be no doubt about which side I'm on.

Posted by: Cloyd Freud, Unemployed at July 01, 2015 10:00 AM (YFw5T)

16 Monty,

In the textbook sense you are correct on the debt issue. However, I think a we have to make a distinction between private debt that adheres to the investment rules you cite and public debt, especially that associated with entitlement programs that does not.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at July 01, 2015 10:01 AM (659DL)

17 Barack Obama is a SCOAMT.

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - Not dead yet at July 01, 2015 10:01 AM (kff5f)

18 I can hardly wait until "civil asset forfeiture extends to the home.

I wonder if they will use that doctrine to seize weapons. I'm pretty sure they will try it.

Civil Asset Forfeiture. Such an officious sounding name. You can almost picture the founders telling each other, "You know what this new country needs? ..."

Posted by: Semper In Stercus at July 01, 2015 10:01 AM (BZAd3)

19 Burn it down.
Scatter the stones.
Salt the earth where it stood.

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - Not dead yet at July 01, 2015 10:01 AM (kff5f)

20 If you believe God founded this nation for a purpose - then these are the hard times where we have to believe He will be faithful to complete that purpose. Think of Obama as King Saul in the OT (he was the people's choice, not God's choice - and there were consequences for that) and pray for our David to come forth next.

Posted by: Beth M at July 01, 2015 10:01 AM (kiy9d)

21 BBQ nite at The Rainbow White House! Getting my drink on early. Will throw waygu beef scraps over the fence for y'all!

Posted by: Joe Biden at July 01, 2015 10:01 AM (gwG9s)

22 Christianity is no stranger to the underground, but Christians shouldn't just roll over and let their kids be subject to hostile pagan powers.

SCOTUS has demoted all marriages to the status of temporary contracts between unfaithful sex partners. It's up to Christians to show, once again, how there's a better way which reflects the reality and stability of self-sacrificing love.

/end tedious sermonizing

Posted by: Feh at July 01, 2015 10:02 AM (I3zSa)

23 Or should we get drunk on rib eye while Greece implodes?

Posted by: Draki at July 01, 2015 10:02 AM (0eidE)

24 Or should we get drunk on rib eye while Greece implodes?
Posted by: Draki at July 01, 2015 10:02 AM (0eidE)

Now THAT sounds like a plan!

Posted by: Nevergiveup at July 01, 2015 10:03 AM (/tNwW)

25 Ouzo and rib eye, eewww. Actually, I hate Ouzo with anything.

Posted by: Lincolntf at July 01, 2015 10:04 AM (2cS/G)

26 As to being an embattled Christian - it was always thus.

Jesus said "If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you."

Rome thought that it could end Christianity. The Roman Empire is long gone. Today St. Peter's church is seated in its capital.

Posted by: blaster at July 01, 2015 10:04 AM (2Ocf1)

27 The DJIA is up 180. Madness.

Posted by: Grump928(c) at July 01, 2015 10:04 AM (evdj2)

28 It's probably time for me to find a church to
attend. If this war is going hot, I want there to be no doubt about
which side I'm on.

Posted by: Cloyd Freud, Unemployed at July 01, 2015 10:00 AM (YFw5T)
This is the boat I'm in right now. After years of studiously avoiding churches because I dislike the internal politics, I've come to the conclusion that church politics < Cultural Marxist politics.

Posted by: Country Singer at July 01, 2015 10:04 AM (8hctH)

29 The European Union was the dream of Monnet et al at the end of the First World War. Their goal was supranational and eventually global governance.

The best book on its origins is called _The Great Deception_ by Richard North and Christopher Booker. The depth of research is excellent and inarguable.

Posted by: Feh at July 01, 2015 10:04 AM (I3zSa)

30 Good job monty on the debt stuff.

My dad always taught me how to leverage debt to my advantage. Look at the interest rates, terms, and what your ability to repay it is.

Have a plan (even if that plan is unloading the asset at a loss and paying the difference for things that depreciate.)

It has served us well. Like many we use credit cards as "consolidators" that is, we put everything on them and then pay them off each month. (Consolidating our many expenses into two major bills rather than a ton of smaller bills, this also syncs us up with our paychecks better.)

Occasionally we'll take advantage of no interest financing for short term stuff, but only if we have the cash around to pay it off as needed. This keeps us liquid but allows us to still get stuff (furniture, repair cars, etc.) We try not to have more than one of these plates spinning at a time.

Lastly we have our "larger" purchases. House, Car, education. Low interest rates on most of these, super emergency plans should horrific things happen (i.e we out run our 6 month cash cushion, our super-emergency funds, and our plan C contingencies.)
We've planned for these, we're paying them down on time (we're ahead of schedule on the higher interest rate accounts, that is those above 4%.)
We only have 1 car in financing at any one time (hopefully, please stay running corolla!).

Debt is useful, but like any tool it can hurt you if you use it wrong.

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) rogue bioethicst at July 01, 2015 10:05 AM (s92xH)

31 Without debt, there is no investment. Without investment, wealth cannot be created and the economy cannot grow.

This is not true. One can invest liquid capital one already owns. I do not have to borrow money to buy a new plow, or a new sewing machine- I can save up my money and buy it later.

People did this for millennia.

Now, the larger point: that debt, when well managed, is not bad in-and-of itself, that is true. But economies can grow without debt- it will just be slower. On the other hand, it will also be less likely to retract, because the less debt their is, the less chance of default - which is really just an admission that money has disappeared: something of value was traded for something of no value.

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - Not dead yet at July 01, 2015 10:05 AM (kff5f)

32 I'm seeing a lot of hyperbole from my hard-money and libertarian friends that there is something intrinsically wrong with debt, and that one should never go into debt unless at gravest need -- and maybe not even then.

On a personal level, sometimes this makes sense. I don't agree with everything Dave Ramsey says, but he helps a lot of people. As an individual, or a family, you are probably going to be better off if you spend less than you earn, in general. Exceptions for a house, maybe in some circumstances a car or education. But when we as a country started thinking of these things as 'good' debt, they started spinning wildly out of control.

In addition, there are many, many references to good stewardship of money in the bible. 'The borrower is a slave to the lender'. True then, true now.

Posted by: Lea - I don't want to have to fight you but I damn sure will at July 01, 2015 10:06 AM (lIU4e)

33 Monty, I don't think you get enough positive feedback for the great work you do around here, so let me step up and say, that is one cute little kitty you selected for today's piece. Kudos!

Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at July 01, 2015 10:06 AM (IN7k+)

34 With no faith there is no basis, really, for a sense of despair over this disintegration. It's just folk evolving, like our President.

Posted by: Lizabth at July 01, 2015 10:06 AM (Qeh6Q)

35 Or should we get drunk on rib eye while Greece implodes?

Did last night thanks to all the talk yesterday.

Posted by: rickb223 at July 01, 2015 10:06 AM (wGV1Q)

36 EUniks are always pushing anti-Christian social policy. What's painful to watch is the Roman part of the Church gadding after the global governors, hoping to eat crumbs that drop from their masters' table. Pathetic.

Posted by: Feh at July 01, 2015 10:07 AM (I3zSa)

37 This is not true. One can invest liquid capital one already owns

Seconded. I will say that debt is sometimes required to do something like start a business, but it should be treated with caution and the knowledge that this is a high risk/high reward calculation you're making.

Posted by: Lea - I don't want to have to fight you but I damn sure will at July 01, 2015 10:07 AM (lIU4e)

38 Ace buying NJ-based Chubb in cash-and-stock deal valued at $28.3B

Hope it is not all Debt financed? I never knew blogging paid so well?

Posted by: Nevergiveup at July 01, 2015 10:07 AM (/tNwW)

39 Faith also requires that we humans think beyond our own lifespans -- to our posterity. Creating people who can not imagine beyond themselves is the whole ant and grasshopper fable.

Posted by: mustbequantum at July 01, 2015 10:08 AM (MIKMs)

40 The idea of proper debt is that it is an investment on future production. A farmer may borrow money to buy seed, but it's intended to be paid back by created wealth later. The net amount of wealth at the end is increased on both sides if it's done right.

Debt, particularly on a national scale, has become something that is simply increased, with no intention of being paid back, as though you handed somebody a credit card with no upper limit.

Unfortunately, political leaders aren't really worried by economic collapse.

Remember what Ayn Rand pointed out in "Atlas Shrugged," that a nation does not have to be wealthy, or even livable, for those with political power to thrive. In fact, most totalitarian regimes are cesspits for the average citizen, but somehow the leaders still manage to live in palaces.

Posted by: TB at July 01, 2015 10:08 AM (8u/5i)

41 The biggest difference I see between debt and investment is the return, or lack of it.

Debt gets repaid with interest to the loaner at a fixed rate.

Investment is repaid with variable interest, but usually much more than a set rate. Sometimes, an investment returns many times the total of the original sum.

The perversion of this clown car of an administration's definition of "investment" has been ruinous in terms of getting any money back on the fantastic sums of other people's money that's been wasted. It's not an investment if the hole you're pouring tax money into is bottomless and there's no return to the taxpayer.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this sh1t at July 01, 2015 10:08 AM (eEb+d)

42 I agree Steevy. As a solid, small government conservative I despise the way Gov. Walker has reacted to this extra-judicial class-lawfare against him and people who might have been his supporters.

Because of this I have to announce that in response I must support the only clean, honest, principled candidate for 2016, Hillary Rodham Clinton.

Posted by: Liberal Arts Major at July 01, 2015 10:08 AM (3pRHP)

43 Is it wrong that I wrung my hands gleefully as i read this?

Posted by: cajun caret at July 01, 2015 10:08 AM (UZQM8)

44 The whole European Union concept was stupid from the start. I always thought so.
Posted by: @votermom at July 01, 2015 10:00 AM (8iiwv)

These are a bunch of countries that can't go 50 years without a war...

Posted by: Lea - I don't want to have to fight you but I damn sure will at July 01, 2015 10:08 AM (lIU4e)

45 Good.

That last thread was getting weird.

Posted by: Citizen X at July 01, 2015 10:09 AM (7ObY1)

46 I don't think the goat cheese, grilled chicken spinach salad my wife made is a good substitute for rib eye.... but it was good.

Posted by: Draki at July 01, 2015 10:10 AM (0eidE)

47 Richmond, if you were a serious city, you're mayor would not be named Tom Butt

Posted by: JohnnyBoy at July 01, 2015 10:10 AM (l2Gqi)

48 People - and governments - shouldn't worry about private citizen's debt levels.

Sure, we know that certain people are going to borrow too much, but that's their business. Public Scolds want to convey their wisdom and in doing so, encourage do-gooders in government to write regulations and shape policies to discourage or prohibit what should be free market lending.

Distorting the market leads to increased rates or the inability to borrow for millions of people caught between the extremes.

If someone borrows too much, they will eventually go broke. If a lender lends too much to unqualified people, they will go broke. Just like gravity, the law is already in nature.

Posted by: jwest at July 01, 2015 10:11 AM (9ZZd+)

49 West Germany bought East Germany. As the biggest contributors to the ECB, I think it can handle Greece.

But why should it?

I think it's because Merkel is a EUnik and doesn't want "the European dream" to die on her watch. Plus, she's probably fempals with Lagarde.

Posted by: Feh at July 01, 2015 10:11 AM (I3zSa)

50 Borrow money if it will pay for itself. Buy your pleasures with cash.

Posted by: Grump928(c) at July 01, 2015 10:11 AM (evdj2)

51 Yes, debt is like hooch. The problem with our government is that they are alcoholics who also own the distillery.

Posted by: MacGruber at July 01, 2015 10:11 AM (sWgE+)

52 Rescuing the Greek economy will be a Herculean task, but it's not a feta compli. A period of living a more spartan lifestyle, and the ability to resist opening a Pandora's Box of new foreign creditors who will simply be another Trojan Horse of indebtedness, are the key out of the maze they're stuck in.

Posted by: Lincolntf at July 01, 2015 10:12 AM (2cS/G)

53 42 Yeah,that is exactly what I said!

Posted by: steevy at July 01, 2015 10:12 AM (sPO3u)

54 Oh, Monty, how I miss your Doomsmanship!!!

I keep hearing the Greeks saying how the debt they've incurred is "un-democratic". Well, nobody put a fvcking gun to your heads when you TOOK the damned money, did they?? It is time to pay the g_d-damned piper, mofos.

Posted by: The Barrel at July 01, 2015 10:12 AM (wtvvX)

55
The Serb spotted in last thread. Ban plz:

Posted by: Support Winners. at July 01, 2015 09:50 AM (a1UrB)

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at July 01, 2015 10:12 AM (kdS6q)

56 You elected the Socialist government now driving your country into the
abyss, friend. If you believe as I do that people in democracies get the
government they deserve, then this is perfectly fair. Socialism is a one-way ticket to misery and failure.

It is amazing to me how socialism has been proven to be a failure time after time after time again, and yet people still believe there IS such a thing as a free lunch. Eventually the law of economics and nature will keep catch up. And the longer it goes before it does, the more upheaval will come.

And we are headed in that very same direction. We have unemployment at or above depression era levels and inflation above Carter levels. Out corrupt government is hiding it for now and the MFM is helping them. But you can only cover up cat shit for so long before the litter box overflows.

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at July 01, 2015 10:14 AM (GpgJl)

57 Richmond, if you were a serious city, you're mayor would not be named Tom Butt

Posted by: JohnnyBoy at July 01, 2015 10:10 AM (l2Gqi)

I know, right?

Posted by: Fire Captain Angel Bobo at July 01, 2015 10:14 AM (2Ocf1)

58 Sha-la-la-la-la-la, live for today

Sha-la-la-la-la-la, live for today

And don't worry 'bout tomorrow, hey, hey, hey

Posted by: Greece, A Musical at July 01, 2015 10:14 AM (oVJmc)

59 Lincolntf 52

Thread winner for most groans elicited.

Posted by: JohnnyBoy at July 01, 2015 10:14 AM (l2Gqi)

60 Posted by: Lincolntf at July 01, 2015 10:12 AM (2cS/G)

Slow Thespian clap.

Posted by: Country Singer at July 01, 2015 10:14 AM (8hctH)

61 Actually, I hate Ouzo with anything.

Posted by: Lincolntf at July 01, 2015 10:04 AM (2cS/G)

I found it works pretty well as a paint remover!

Posted by: Hrothgar at July 01, 2015 10:14 AM (ftVQq)

62 Posted by: Lincolntf at July 01, 2015 10:12 AM (2cS/G)

And a default. Don't forget the default.

Seriously, the Greek economy is a shambles. They can't even afford to pay their new bills, let alone the debt they've accumulated. The best option (and it's a horrible option) is for them to remove themselves from the EU, cry "Default!" and start over.

Then, yes, your option becomes workable. But with the mountain of debt they're under right now? Not so much.

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - Not dead yet at July 01, 2015 10:14 AM (kff5f)

63 Suppose one of you wants to build a tower. Won't you first sit down and estimate the cost to see if you have enough money to complete it? For if you lay the foundation and are not able to finish it, everyone who sees it will ridicule you, saying, 'This person began to build and wasn't able to finish.'

Posted by: Stuff Jesus Said, Luke 14:28-30 at July 01, 2015 10:14 AM (evdj2)

64 As Monty doom threads go , this one is somewhat mild and in places uplifting . What the hell is wrong with you Monty?

Posted by: Cruzinator at July 01, 2015 10:15 AM (Q4pU/)

65 Anyone notice that China's index plunged 8% yesterday? They're saying b/c GREECE! Methinks it's a bit more fundamental than that.

Posted by: The ChiComs at July 01, 2015 10:15 AM (5buP8)

66 The whole European Union concept was stupid from the start. I always thought so.

It's what we in the engineering world call, "designed to fail." There was no way that was going to ever work.

But their betters, as usual, knew better and imposed an unworkable system on the Euroweenies anyway. Now they're paying for it, which just warms the cockles of my black heart.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this sh1t at July 01, 2015 10:15 AM (eEb+d)

67 Rescuing the Greek economy will be a Herculean task, but it's not a feta compli. A period of living a more spartan lifestyle, and the ability to resist opening a Pandora's Box of new foreign creditors who will simply be another Trojan Horse of indebtedness, are the key out of the maze they're stuck in.

^^^^^
Olive that and then some.

Posted by: rickb223 at July 01, 2015 10:15 AM (wGV1Q)

68 Cloyd and Country Singer, I have also been AWOL from church since...childhood C&E visits. My issue is finding a church that will have ME.

Posted by: All Hail Eris at July 01, 2015 10:15 AM (Lk67m)

69 Kitteh wants to go out but teh snow.

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at July 01, 2015 10:16 AM (GpgJl)

70
I'm seeing a lot of hyperbole from my hard-money and libertarian friends that there is something intrinsically wrong with debt...This is silly. Why do I say this?

Chemtrails?

Posted by: Your Hard-money and Libertarian Friends

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at July 01, 2015 10:16 AM (kdS6q)

71 Slow Thespian clap.

Posted by: Country Singer at July 01, 2015 10:14 AM (8hctH)

That was a shot, wasn't it?

Posted by: Hillary Clinton at July 01, 2015 10:16 AM (2Ocf1)

72 Ugh, I'd love for our stock market to crash so I could move some cash back into the market.... oh well guess I'll keep waiting.

Posted by: Draki at July 01, 2015 10:16 AM (0eidE)

73 Joshua: 14 �Now therefore fear the LORD, and serve him in sincerity and in truth: and put away the gods which your fathers served on the other side of the flood, and in Egypt; and serve ye the LORD.
15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.

Posted by: petunia at July 01, 2015 10:17 AM (VoCyE)

74 Great post. Welcome back, Monty.

Posted by: Jen the original at July 01, 2015 10:17 AM (WV80V)

75 57 Richmond, if you were a serious city, you're mayor would not be named Tom Butt

Posted by: JohnnyBoy at July 01, 2015 10:10 AM (l2Gqi)

I know, right?
Posted by: Fire Captain Angel Bobo at July 01, 2015 10:14 AM (2Ocf1)

I feels ya bra....

Posted by: City Councilman Corky Booze at July 01, 2015 10:17 AM (UZQM8)

76 Greece flew too close to the sun.

Posted by: Cruzinator at July 01, 2015 10:17 AM (Q4pU/)

77 ...and yet people still believe there IS such a thing
as a free lunch.

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at July 01, 2015 10:14 AM (GpgJl)
Embodied in the mindset, expressed in current vernacular, "I 'ont care, I gots mines."

Posted by: Country Singer at July 01, 2015 10:17 AM (8hctH)

78 @lincolntf

I have family from Greece (I have an eclectic ancestry - which is why I am an American) and one of my cousins got married a couple of weeks ago. I tried to find a "good" bottle of retsina and ouzo for the wedding, i only gathered looks of dumbfoundness.

Posted by: Penfold at July 01, 2015 10:17 AM (Fbt5B)

79 For if you lay the foundation and are not able to finish it, everyone who sees it will ridicule you, saying, 'This person began to build and wasn't able to finish.'

BUT, if you want an NFL team, build the foundation, and the Rams will come running to finish it for you

Posted by: Stuff Stan Kronke said at July 01, 2015 10:17 AM (5buP8)

80 People - and governments - shouldn't worry about private citizen's debt levels.

In the last few years we have seen people have home debt wiped out and movements to have student loan debt wiped, and there is also bankruptcy.

If the government is going to get involved in wiping out people's debt, you damn sure should be worried about private citizens. And if they are in debt up their eyeballs they can't buy anything, which hurts the economy.

Posted by: Lea - I don't want to have to fight you but I damn sure will at July 01, 2015 10:17 AM (lIU4e)

81 Yeah, looking at the drop in SSE now. The news ain't covering this. Might be due to demand in manufacturing or their real estate issue in China.

Posted by: Draki at July 01, 2015 10:18 AM (0eidE)

82 The Middle East is on the brink of self-destruction and the entire world wide economy is about to self-implode. Life for everybody on this earth could get drastically worse very quickly, yet the issue which occupies all the attention is gay marriage.

The real motivation in this decision is not perhaps what it seems.

The real issue here is not to win equality in marriage for gay people, as so many believe. The real agenda here, is to marginalize Christians. That is why this is being celebrated so widely and why, despite the plethora of other more important events and issues around the world, it occupies such a place of prominence.

The real agenda here is to put Christians in a position where they are finally, legally exposed if they follow and practice their faith. The endgame is "to get" Christianity. The desired outcome is not to liberalize and bring equality for gay people; the desired outcome is to put Christianity directly within the crosshairs so that its adherents can be proactively attacked and persecuted.

If you live in the United States of America and you are a Bible believing Christian you woke up this morning criminalized. When you went to bed early last week you were a different person to the person waking up this morning.

The repercussions of this judgment will be far reaching.

Posted by: wrg500 at July 01, 2015 10:18 AM (sgrzZ)

83 I feels ya bra....

Word.

Posted by: Luther Strange, AL AG at July 01, 2015 10:18 AM (evdj2)

84 As I started in reading this, "Sea of Faith" caught my eye. When I was done, I remembered another sea...

http://tinyurl.com/pgn48un

Vic is probably the only one old enough to remember this one, besides me.

Posted by: fairweatherbill at July 01, 2015 10:19 AM (1eYr7)

85 All beneficiaries of government largesse should remember one thing: a promise to pay benefits does not guarantee an ability to pay benefits.

I say this all the time to our clients - we can get you a judgment but what I think you want is money. Those aren't the same things.

The United States citizenry needs to have driven home to them that SCOTUS decided many many many years ago that there is no vested right in a certain level of government benefits, specifically, Social Security benefits. Those "promises" are utterly ethereal, not set in stone. There is no right to receive a certain level of benefit.

At least there wasn't. This is the nightmare of King v. Burwell. I can't say that now. Who knows what will happen when means testing will be applied by Math.

Dammit. Dammit I was already furious enough that I didn't have to heave myself down the Doom volcano too.

Posted by: alexthechick - You don't want me to be reciprocal at July 01, 2015 10:19 AM (mf5HN)

86 My issue is finding a church that will have ME.

Posted by: All Hail Eris at July 01, 2015 10:15 AM (Lk67m)
Frankly, I have concerns that I will be proof of spontaneous combustion when I again step foot in a church.

Posted by: Country Singer at July 01, 2015 10:19 AM (8hctH)

87 The mister said last night, "I don't see what the big deal about the debt is. It's not even real money, it's just a number on a computer."

Posted by: Gregory of Yardale at July 01, 2015 10:19 AM (O7MnT)

88 In the last few years we have seen people have home debt wiped out and movements to have student loan debt wiped, and there is also bankruptcy.

If the government is going to get involved in wiping out people's debt, you damn sure should be worried about private citizens. And if they are in debt up their eyeballs they can't buy anything, which hurts the economy.
Posted by: Lea - I don't want to have to fight you but I damn sure will at July 01, 2015 10:17 AM (lIU4e)

Hehe, govt isn't forgiving that student loan debt. It gets it back with taxes and SS withholdings.

Posted by: Draki at July 01, 2015 10:20 AM (0eidE)

89 My issue is finding a church that will have ME.

Posted by: All Hail Eris at July 01, 2015 10:15 AM (Lk67m)

Same problem here!

But I am seriously thinking about looking again because I think very very soon both I and the church will need each other.

Posted by: Hrothgar at July 01, 2015 10:20 AM (ftVQq)

90 The EU was designed for the purpose of making transfer payments from richer to poorer countries, to socialize European wealth and debt.

I admire the EFTA countries and Switzerland for having the foresight to steer clear of the eventual train wreck.

Posted by: Feh at July 01, 2015 10:20 AM (I3zSa)

91 Greece has gone to Hellespoint in an amphora.

Posted by: @votermom at July 01, 2015 10:20 AM (km3xQ)

92 >>My issue is finding a church that will have ME.

I am feeling more and more like my fate is to be a Ronin Christian; a disciple without a master.

Posted by: Gregory of Yardale at July 01, 2015 10:20 AM (O7MnT)

93 That was a shot, wasn't it?

Posted by: Hillary Clinton at July 01, 2015 10:16 AM (2Ocf1)

Not at all. I wanted to acknowledge the effort as well as stay within the theme.

Posted by: Country Singer at July 01, 2015 10:21 AM (8hctH)

94 I feels ya bra....

Word.

Posted by: Luther Strange, AL AG

*snort*

Posted by: Young Boozer, AL Treasurer at July 01, 2015 10:21 AM (evdj2)

95 a "good" bottle of retsina

I think I see your problem right there....

Vile thing Greeks drink: retsina and Coke

Posted by: blaster at July 01, 2015 10:21 AM (2Ocf1)

96 "If the government is going to get involved in wiping out people's debt, you damn sure should be worried about private citizens. And if they are in debt up their eyeballs they can't buy anything, which hurts the economy. "

Posted by: Lea - I don't want to have to fight you but I damn sure will at July 01, 2015 10:17 AM (lIU4e)

The government needs to stay out of lending and borrowing of private individuals. Otherwise, it tries to pick winners and losers and always chooses wrong.

Markets take care of themselves as long as politicians stay out of it.

Posted by: jwest at July 01, 2015 10:21 AM (9ZZd+)

97 The Middle East is on the brink of self-destruction and the entire world wide economy is about to self-implode. Life for everybody on this earth could get drastically worse very quickly, yet the issue which occupies all the attention is gay marriage.
Posted by: wrg500 at July 01, 2015 10:18 AM (sgrzZ)

Most people aren't interested in it for news I think. Just like they weren't interested in Hillary lying about Benghazi. On the plus side, this allows the DoD when a Dem is president to drone jihadis in yemen or anywhere else they want to.

Posted by: Draki at July 01, 2015 10:21 AM (0eidE)

98 81 Yeah, looking at the drop in SSE now. The news ain't covering this. Might be due to demand in manufacturing or their real estate issue in China.

Something odd is happening out there. I sell software, and had lunch w/a Director of IT yesterday. He said it's almost impossible to buy computers and parts now. Dell reps take days to call him back. And that's not just because they're a shitty sales organization.

Posted by: Brave Sir Robin at July 01, 2015 10:21 AM (5buP8)

99 This is the nightmare of King v. Burwell

I thought we (as an Anglospheric, Judeo-Christian culture) had already fought this battle of "the Rule of Law."

So sad to find out the "Rule of Men" was burrowing under the walls the whole time.

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - Not dead yet at July 01, 2015 10:22 AM (kff5f)

100 87 The mister said last night, "I don't see what the big deal about the debt is. It's not even real money, it's just a number on a computer."

He has a bright future as a government economist.

Posted by: Brave Sir Robin at July 01, 2015 10:23 AM (5buP8)

101 Greece could sure use King Midas right now.

Posted by: Cruzinator at July 01, 2015 10:23 AM (Q4pU/)

102 YEA...DOOM!

Posted by: Paladin at July 01, 2015 10:23 AM (WujO7)

103 I admire the EFTA countries and Switzerland for having the foresight to steer clear of the eventual train wreck.

--

Hard to pull the wool over Swiss bankers eyes when it comes to monetary jiggery-pokery. That's their specialty.

Posted by: @votermom at July 01, 2015 10:23 AM (km3xQ)

104 Posted by: Luther Strange, AL AG at July 01, 2015 10:18 AM (evdj2)

Speaking of ol' Luther, y'all should have heard the radio ads being run against him during the last campaign. Complete concern trolling wrapped in war on wymyn. Literally, it was "I'm a hardcore Republican, but did you know Luther Strange supports rape? How can you vote for him?"

Posted by: Country Singer at July 01, 2015 10:24 AM (8hctH)

105 I thought we (as an Anglospheric, Judeo-Christian culture) had already fought this battle of "the Rule of Law."

So sad to find out the "Rule of Men" was burrowing under the walls the whole time.
Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - Not dead yet at July 01, 2015 10:22 AM (kff5f)

Agreed, it's sad to see Rule of Law dying in America. It'll be funny to see it hurting the liberals. Gotta play our cards right.

Posted by: Draki at July 01, 2015 10:24 AM (0eidE)

106 Vile thing Greeks drink: retsina and Coke

Sounds like eye drops and a cold drink.

Posted by: rickb223 at July 01, 2015 10:24 AM (wGV1Q)

107 Anyone who is looking for a church home to return to and you are in Northern Virginia, I can recommend Fairfax Community Church.

It is a very vital church.

Posted by: blaster at July 01, 2015 10:24 AM (2Ocf1)

108 >>>>Suppose one of you wants to build a tower. Won't you first sit down and
estimate the cost to see if you have enough money to complete it? For if
you lay the foundation and are not able to finish it, everyone who sees
it will ridicule you, saying, 'This person began to build and wasn't
able to finish.'
.
.
.Doesn't work that way in the US anymore. People are not ridiculed or held responsible for things anymore. A Prime example is the big hole in Lexington Kentucky. The main contractor/Financier has made promise after promise to build stuff ranging from a very needed parking garage to multiple office spaces but all we have is a very large one square block hole in the ground to show for it.

The City has attempted to step in and make him fill it back in with his bond money but all to no avail. So at some point the city is going to be on the hook for getting rid of a massive hole in the middle of the City.

Posted by: The Great White Scotsman at July 01, 2015 10:24 AM (iONHu)

109 bureaucrats who have absolutely no personal investment in your welfare

I'm pretty sure they're out to get me.

Posted by: SpongeBobSaget at July 01, 2015 10:24 AM (zauWW)

110 >>> But I am seriously thinking about looking again because I think very very soon both I and the church will need each other.

Churches are useful, for certain values of useful. Off and on I think about it but it wears off pretty quick. The odd thing is I've thought a lot about theology and disagree with significant portions of what's on offer, and I'm serious enough about my beliefs that I cannot bring myself to lie just to be accepted into a false covenant.

Posted by: Bigby's Indian Sunburn at July 01, 2015 10:25 AM (3ZtZW)

111 " One can invest liquid capital one already owns."

Only if there is a counterparty to borrow those funds. Which means that if you want to invest, someone else must take on debt. You can't invest without a debt counterparty.

Posted by: Monty at July 01, 2015 10:25 AM (WzYlo)

112 The mister said last night, "I don't see what the
big deal about the debt is. It's not even real money, it's just a number
on a computer."

Posted by: Gregory of Yardale at July 01, 2015 10:19 AM (O7MnT)

Sounds like the libs I know: "Oh, all we have to do is print more money."
*facepalm*

Posted by: Country Singer at July 01, 2015 10:25 AM (8hctH)

113
Yeah, looking at the drop in SSE now. The news ain't covering this. Might be due to demand in manufacturing or their real estate issue in China.

Something odd is happening out there. I sell software, and had lunch w/a Director of IT yesterday. He said it's almost impossible to buy computers and parts now. Dell reps take days to call him back. And that's not just because they're a shitty sales organization.

Time to check the tide tables for Taiwan and the weather forecast for the South China Sea.....

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at July 01, 2015 10:25 AM (kdS6q)

114 For me, Ouzo will forever be associated with Octopus Night at Red Wings games. **misty watercolor mem'ries**

Posted by: All Hail Eris at July 01, 2015 10:25 AM (Lk67m)

115 The government needs to stay out of lending and borrowing of private individuals.

What should be, and what actually is, are different things entirely.

Posted by: Lea - I don't want to have to fight you but I damn sure will at July 01, 2015 10:26 AM (lIU4e)

116 Something odd is happening out there. I sell software, and had lunch w/a Director of IT yesterday. He said it's almost impossible to buy computers and parts now. Dell reps take days to call him back. And that's not just because they're a shitty sales organization.
Posted by: Brave Sir Robin at July 01, 2015 10:21 AM (5buP

--

Dang. Kid was thinking of getting a Dell from their website.

Posted by: @votermom at July 01, 2015 10:26 AM (agykP)

117 ...and yet people still believe there IS such a thing
as a free lunch.

Or they believe they deserve it because they "paid in."

Posted by: HR braucht ein Bier at July 01, 2015 10:27 AM (ZKzrr)

118 Pan me all you want. It's hot as Hades here, wife wants a Hermes bag, I've got two tickets to the Apollo and our daughter, Phoebe, isn't available to babysit since she hooked up with some empty-headed Adonis who models for Nike.

Posted by: Lincolntf at July 01, 2015 10:27 AM (2cS/G)

119 The least DOOMy of all the DOOM posts, thank you for keeping things in perspective.

Posted by: Mister Magic at July 01, 2015 10:27 AM (/AxZ9)

120 For those looking for a Church home- I can make no promises, because every congregation is completely autonomous, but you could look at the churches of Christ (not the United Church of Christ- they're a whole different group).

With the caveat that other denominations' teachings on baptism have changed over the last 150 years, and ours mostly haven't, we're actually founded on the ecumenical Campbell-Stone movement. Again, different congregations will differ, and some are much more judgmental than others, but if you find a young-ish congregation, I think you'd be surprised at how welcomed you'd be.

If you happen to live in DFW, feel free to head to Mansfield CoC- it's my church home.

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - Not dead yet at July 01, 2015 10:27 AM (kff5f)

121 That is an adorable kitteh of doom.

Posted by: Mindy at July 01, 2015 10:27 AM (BkhqT)

122 Doesn't work that way in the US anymore. People are not ridiculed or held responsible for things anymore. A Prime example is the big hole in Lexington Kentucky. The main contractor/Financier has made promise after promise to build stuff ranging from a very needed parking garage to multiple office spaces but all we have is a very large one square block hole in the ground to show for it.

This is how Chris Pratt got famous, so maybe not all bad....

Posted by: blaster at July 01, 2015 10:27 AM (2Ocf1)

123 And that's not just because they're a shitty sales organization.
Posted by: Brave Sir Robin at July 01, 2015 10:21 AM

Why not?

Anyone know where I can get a front-bumper Confederate Battle Flag?

Posted by: First-Rate Political Hack at July 01, 2015 10:27 AM (f5niE)

124 Retsina: Is it true the Greeks added pine needles to perfectly good wine, thus making it unpalatable to the invading Nazis, or is that urban myth? I do know this: the shit is god awful.

Posted by: Brave Sir Robin at July 01, 2015 10:28 AM (5buP8)

125 A 21-year-old man from Utah, Richard 'Rick' Jones, was the apparent victim of a series of vicious anti-gay hate crimes.

Suspect in custody - Richard "Rick" Jones.

Posted by: RWC - Team BOHICA at July 01, 2015 10:29 AM (fWAjv)

126 If the posts here are any indication, the left's effort to undermine the church may just backfire on them. Maybe there is a "Great Revival" coming.

Posted by: Country Singer at July 01, 2015 10:29 AM (8hctH)

127 This is how Chris Pratt got famous, so maybe not all bad....
Posted by: blaster at July 01, 2015 10:27 AM (2Ocf1)

The pit.
I was in the pit.
We all were in that pi-I-it!

Posted by: Lea - I don't want to have to fight you but I damn sure will at July 01, 2015 10:29 AM (lIU4e)

128 "... wife wants a Hermes bag..."

Tell here to take the 6 Hermes bags she has in the closet that she doesn't use anymore and send them to my wife, who will send her the 6 she no longer carries.

It will be like Christmas.

Posted by: jwest at July 01, 2015 10:30 AM (9ZZd+)

129
*Monty*

Dump AND Doom. What have we done this morning to deserve such a bounty?

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at July 01, 2015 10:30 AM (vXKGT)

130 The Great White Scotsman

Do you know if the contractor had a performance bond? I deal with this a lot in my professional life, and every public job in NY is bonded and large private projects (like the one you describe) are usually bonded. I would be surprised that Kentucky does not have similar laws about bonds for public projects, the feds do (Miller Act and the little Miller Act).

Posted by: Penfold at July 01, 2015 10:30 AM (Fbt5B)

131 I can't drink retsina at all, but I have been occasionally cajoled into a quick ice cold shot of ouzo, which I try to forget about as soon as possible.

Posted by: Lincolntf at July 01, 2015 10:30 AM (2cS/G)

132
My issue is finding a church that will have ME.
Posted by: All Hail Eris

Same problem here!
Posted by: Hrothgar

If your interested, I've started an apocalyptic comet cult.

You get a cool robe.

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at July 01, 2015 10:30 AM (kdS6q)

133 Dump AND Doom. What have we done this morning to deserve such a bounty?

Posted by: IllTemperedCur

You ate fiber with hot sauce.

Posted by: Turd Ferguson at July 01, 2015 10:31 AM (VAsIq)

134 @124 - no, that's not true at all.

Ancient Greeks sealed up wine bladders with pine resin it seeped into the wine.

So it is much, much older than the Nazis.

Posted by: blaster at July 01, 2015 10:31 AM (2Ocf1)

135 If the posts here are any indication, the left's effort to undermine the church may just backfire on them. Maybe there is a "Great Revival" coming.

Like, a crusade!

Posted by: rickb223 at July 01, 2015 10:31 AM (wGV1Q)

136 And this OT...
Heard this morning that Nascar and it's bend in the wind CEO Brian France, along with Daytona Speedway's Joie Chitwood are offering to trade racegoers an American Flag for a CBF or any other flag.
They have also stated that they are going to work on banning(yes, banning) CFB flags from being brought to Nascar events.
Nascar has choked itself through commericalism, socialism, feminism, etc through the past decade to the point where it has lost a huge audience. Michigan International Speedway has removed over half it's seating that was just built and installed at the beginning of the 2,000 because they don't want people seeing huge swaths of empty stands on television.
This is just another nail in the coffin. I hope everyone who can possibly do so, if they attend this weekend's race, flies as many CFB's flags they can get ahold of.

Posted by: Jen the original at July 01, 2015 10:31 AM (WV80V)

137 84 Vic is probably the only one old enough to remember this one, besides me.

Posted by: fairweatherbill at July 01, 2015 10:19 AM (1eYr7)

Not only do I remember it, I have the CD.

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at July 01, 2015 10:31 AM (GpgJl)

138
For me, Ouzo will forever be associated with Octopus Night at Red Wings games. **misty watercolor mem'ries**

Pics?

Posted by: Bandersnatch at July 01, 2015 10:32 AM (JtwS4)

139
Suspect in custody - Richard "Rick" Jones.

I'm sure this has made the rounds on Twitter, however, and will remain in the SJW consciousness as the latest version of an anti-gay Holocaust.

Posted by: Greece, A Musical at July 01, 2015 10:32 AM (oVJmc)

140 My theory is that we're already dead, and in hell.

Posted by: Insomniac at July 01, 2015 10:32 AM (mx5oN)

141 Anyone know where I can get a front-bumper Confederate Battle Flag?

Posted by: First-Rate Political Hack at July 01, 2015 10:27 AM (f5niE)

My neighbor two doors down has one. It's about 18"x18" and adorns the front of his '85 Mitsubishi Montero.

Posted by: Country Singer at July 01, 2015 10:32 AM (8hctH)

142 "Campbell-Stone movement."

When I was a kid, some of my friends assured me that I was a "Campbellite."

Posted by: Cloyd Freud, Unemployed at July 01, 2015 10:32 AM (YFw5T)

143 Like, a crusade!

Posted by: rickb223

I call the high horse!

Posted by: Turd Ferguson at July 01, 2015 10:32 AM (VAsIq)

144 125 A 21-year-old man from Utah, Richard 'Rick' Jones, was the apparent victim of a series of vicious anti-gay hate crimes.

Suspect in custody - Richard "Rick" Jones.
Posted by: RWC - Team BOHICA at July 01, 2015 10:29 AM (fWAjv)

Cocaine's helluva drug!

Posted by: Insomniac at July 01, 2015 10:32 AM (mx5oN)

145 LDC, if your cult shirt is the same one the comet jockey scientist was excoriated for wearing, I'm in!

Posted by: All Hail Eris at July 01, 2015 10:32 AM (Lk67m)

146 >>
52 Rescuing the Greek economy will be a Herculean task, but it's not a feta compli. A period of living a more spartan lifestyle, and the ability to resist opening a Pandora's Box of new foreign creditors who will simply be another Trojan Horse of indebtedness, are the key out of the maze they're stuck in.
Posted by: Lincolntf at July 01, 2015 10:12 AM (2cS/G) <<

I think I may have an idea of what you did there.

Posted by: MacGruber at July 01, 2015 10:32 AM (sWgE+)

147 If your interested, I've started an apocalyptic comet cult.

You get a cool robe.

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at July 01, 2015 10:30 AM (kdS6q)

Do you supply the Nike's also? Or do I have to bring my own?

Posted by: wrg500 at July 01, 2015 10:32 AM (sgrzZ)

148 I think that is an urban legend. Retsina has been a weapon against foreign invaders for millenia. Per wikipedia (i know, always a reliable source), it has been around for at least 2000 years.

Posted by: Penfold at July 01, 2015 10:32 AM (Fbt5B)

149 "a" helluva drug.

Posted by: Insomniac at July 01, 2015 10:33 AM (mx5oN)

150 For those looking for a church... I recommend this man until you find a local one. http://kimclement.com/

Posted by: Beth M at July 01, 2015 10:33 AM (kiy9d)

151 If the posts here are any indication, the left's effort to undermine the church may just backfire on them. Maybe there is a "Great Revival" coming.

Even Instapundit has picked up on this - a while ago.

So it's old.

Posted by: blaster at July 01, 2015 10:33 AM (2Ocf1)

152 143 Like, a crusade!

Posted by: rickb223

I call the high horse!
Posted by: Turd Ferguson at July 01, 2015 10:32 AM (VAsIq)

There's a few people that'll have to climb down off of it first.

Posted by: Insomniac at July 01, 2015 10:34 AM (mx5oN)

153 I kinda like retsina. I like my white wines on the dry side so I prefer a retsina to a fruity white wine.

Posted by: MacGruber at July 01, 2015 10:35 AM (sWgE+)

154 124 pine needles

Not urban myth. Retsina represents a very old method of winemaking. The Greeks and Romans all added resins and various other things to their wine as preservatives.

For taste, he Romans were especially fond of adding seawater. Some added donkey gall.

Posted by: Feh at July 01, 2015 10:35 AM (I3zSa)

155 You want unserious?

Tune in something like the Today show or Good Morning America on network TV, any morning.

Mostly a bunch of screaming bimbos and their manly friends like Matt Lauer and George Stephanopoulus, babbling away about nothing.

Nothing, but with a decidedly leftist bent, if you listen between the lines.

Posted by: the littl shyning man at July 01, 2015 10:35 AM (U6f54)

156 >>>The recent failure of a SpaceX mission was a lousy end to a lousy week

Its cause their fucking pansies.

Posted by: Sissy SpaceX at July 01, 2015 10:35 AM (6qR/9)

157 I was a "Campbellite."

Yeah. Otis Campbell.

Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at July 01, 2015 10:35 AM (W5DcG)

158 This is just another nail in the coffin. I hope everyone who can possibly do so, if they attend this weekend's race, flies as many CFB's flags they can get ahold of.

NASCAR can f'ng die. I have a friend who does rally-car racing, he calls them "round-and-rounders." F1 is where it's at.

Posted by: Brave Sir Robin at July 01, 2015 10:36 AM (5buP8)

159 I have been reading Misreading Scripture With Western Eyes by Richards and O'Brian. (It starts out pretty shallow but gets better.) One of the points they make is the difference between a good or bad culture, as we allegedly have, and a shame or honor culture. In a good or bad culture, our conscience is supposed to guide us even if nobody is watching. In a shame or honor culture, that which is unknown does not create shame. Today, we have no shame, indeed many people are most proud of that which should shame them. It makes y wonder if a good shaming isn't what we the people need.

Posted by: The Great White Snark at July 01, 2015 10:36 AM (XUKZU)

160 I call the high horse!

Someone to be fetching my trusty steed, Quantrill, please!

Posted by: rickb223 at July 01, 2015 10:36 AM (wGV1Q)

161 @156 - that made me laugh

Posted by: blaster at July 01, 2015 10:36 AM (2Ocf1)

162 Some added donkey gall.

Budweiser did that for years. Now the just use donkey piss.

Posted by: wrg500 at July 01, 2015 10:36 AM (sgrzZ)

163 jwest -

My wife has a handbag ensemble that is notable for its vastness (at least a couple of dozen) and that she prefers the reasonably priced Vera Bradley bags, which the cats quickly decide make comfy sleeping areas and then a new bag is required! My condolences on your wife's expensive taste in bags.

Posted by: Penfold at July 01, 2015 10:37 AM (Fbt5B)

164 Not just a decay of virtue (both public and private), but a decay of gladness, hope and optimism...

What we've lost the most of is respect in all it's forms: respect for virtue, for wisdom, for maturity, for institutions, for each other.

And make no mistake, there is a malevolent spirit behind all of it, one that seeks to make mankind suffer instead of enjoying a life full of God's Bountiful Love and the benefits that inevitably follow such Goodness.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this sh1t at July 01, 2015 10:37 AM (eEb+d)

165 Saw a joke yesterday that made me sad chuckle:

Pedophiles are fucking immature assholes.

Posted by: Turd Ferguson at July 01, 2015 10:37 AM (VAsIq)

166 >>162 Some added donkey gall. <<

More donkey gall means more iron.

Posted by: MacGruber at July 01, 2015 10:37 AM (sWgE+)

167 In sickness and in health, til debt do us part.

Posted by: Seamus Muldoon at July 01, 2015 10:37 AM (mvenn)

168 Greece.....what the hell. Bunch of morons. The Europeans don't need a union what they need is a bath with hot soap and water. Get in the cracks and wash their asses really good as they stink to high heaven. P-U!

Posted by: Hairyback Guy at July 01, 2015 10:38 AM (D0NZx)

169 I was a "Campbellite."

Yeah. Otis Campbell.

Bruce "Boomstick" Campbell

Posted by: rickb223 at July 01, 2015 10:38 AM (wGV1Q)

170 if they attend this weekend's race, flies as many CFB's flags they can get ahold of.

NASCAR can f'ng die. I have a friend who does rally-car racing, he calls them "round-and-rounders." F1 is where it's at.
Posted by: Brave Sir Robin at July 01, 2015 10:36 AM (5buP

Looking for front bumper CFB license-plate type deal. An recommendations for a source?

Posted by: First-Rate Political Hack at July 01, 2015 10:38 AM (f5niE)

171 Why all the hate on Grease? It was Travolta's greatest role!

Posted by: Turd Ferguson at July 01, 2015 10:38 AM (VAsIq)

172 We're all doomed.

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at July 01, 2015 10:39 AM (LA7Cm)

173 Pedophiles are fucking immature assholes.
Posted by: Turd Ferguson at July 01, 2015 10:37 AM (VAsIq)

Are pedophiles like anglophiles? No? Huh...

Posted by: First-Rate Political Hack at July 01, 2015 10:39 AM (f5niE)

174 We're all doomed.

Posted by: Ricardo Kill

*pulls head into shell*

Posted by: Mitch McConnell at July 01, 2015 10:40 AM (VAsIq)

175 Bruce "Boomstick" Campbell

You know spies - buncha whiney little girls.

Posted by: Citizen X at July 01, 2015 10:40 AM (7ObY1)

176 Appropriately, although it was almost a Barrel-worthy slip up, that last comment really should've been italicized anyway.

I meant to do that.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this sh1t at July 01, 2015 10:40 AM (eEb+d)

177 I don't think this is primarily a church vs. state issue anymore or that the revival of the church will save us as America, the unique thing made manifest in our Founding and by its charters. This is a deeper issue of the corruption of our Constitution and the character of our citizens. Certainly the State wishes to destroy the Church. But that is always part of the State's destructive and self-centered destiny.

Posted by: rrpjr at July 01, 2015 10:40 AM (s/yC1)

178 Stop whining Athanasios. At least you cannot die.

Posted by: Bishop Arius at July 01, 2015 10:41 AM (6qR/9)

179 You know spies - buncha whiney little girls.

Posted by: Citizen X

*rolls eyes*
*eats another yogurt*

Posted by: Michael Westen at July 01, 2015 10:41 AM (VAsIq)

180 And speaking of shame culture (or lack thereof), saw a guy at the airport sporting a t-shirt that read "I don't need a tractor to pull hoes!"

And yes, I larfed, but come on people, you gotta try harder when you're in public!

Posted by: All Hail Eris at July 01, 2015 10:42 AM (Lk67m)

181 Cocaine's helluva drug!

Posted by: Insomniac at July 01, 2015 10:32 AM (mx5oN)

Damn right!

The first attack left the young businessman with a bruised face and the words 'die f*g' carved into his arm. After the seemingly horrifying anti-gay attack, Jones troubles did not end. Five days after the apparent hate-fueled assault, Jones' home was vandalized with the same harmful words. On June 10th, the 'attacks' came to a head when a molotov cocktail was thrown into the family's home and their pizza business was robbed of $1,000 and spray painted.

Posted by: RWC - Team BOHICA at July 01, 2015 10:42 AM (fWAjv)

182 Way OT.
I was just watching drag racing from Germany, Euro Series. The people in the stands looked and dressed exactly like the race fans I see at NHRA events. German rednecks.

Also, there is a thriving western pleasure and rodeo scene in the Netherlands.

Posted by: Dave at Buffalo Roam at July 01, 2015 10:42 AM (L+eMF)

183 Would I lie to you?
Would I lie to you honey?
Now would I say something that wasn't true?
I'm asking you sugar
Would I lie to you?

Posted by: Greek Pension Promises at July 01, 2015 10:42 AM (VAsIq)

184 Spiros, my good man, come here and taste this wine. No, I insist, Spiros, taste the wine. Now, you tell me, my friend, does that taste like it has enough donkey gall? Tell me, Spiros, where is the donkey gall? Where is the donkey gall??!!!???

Posted by: Lincolntf at July 01, 2015 10:42 AM (2cS/G)

185 Who you callin' "habitual"!

Posted by: goon at July 01, 2015 10:43 AM (gy5kE)

186 Also, there is a thriving western pleasure and rodeo scene in the Netherlands.

I bet there is!

Posted by: blaster at July 01, 2015 10:43 AM (2Ocf1)

187 Bruce "Boomstick" Campbell
Posted by: rickb223 at July 01, 2015 10:38 AM (wGV1Q)
-----------------------------------------
It's Caitlyn Campbell. Yowza, do I need some mandible contouring or what.

Posted by: Caitlyn Campbell at July 01, 2015 10:43 AM (6qR/9)

188 >>"I don't need a tractor to pull hoes!"

LOL.

>>'die f*g'

Die Fig? Is it fig season already?

Posted by: Lea - I don't want to have to fight you but I damn sure will at July 01, 2015 10:43 AM (lIU4e)

189 "My condolences on your wife's expensive taste in bags."

Posted by: Penfold at July 01, 2015 10:37 AM (Fbt5B)

That's OK, it's all borrowed money. I'm just waiting for the government to pick up the tab.

Posted by: jwest at July 01, 2015 10:43 AM (9ZZd+)

190 Drag racers call NASCAR racing "Hillbillies Turning Left".

Posted by: Dave at Buffalo Roam at July 01, 2015 10:44 AM (L+eMF)

191 Also, there is a thriving western pleasure and rodeo scene in the Netherlands.

I'm pretty sure The Book of Revelation covers that.

Posted by: Brave Sir Robin at July 01, 2015 10:44 AM (5buP8)

192 Die Fig? Is it fig season already?

Posted by: Lea

It's German--means "the figure". Probably some artistic meme.

Posted by: Turd Ferguson at July 01, 2015 10:45 AM (VAsIq)

193 Interesting. I am finding that Leftists love Al Jazeera for news.

Posted by: blaster at July 01, 2015 10:45 AM (2Ocf1)

194 Drag racers call NASCAR racing "Hillbillies Turning Left".

Posted by: Dave at Buffalo Roam

I call it "Where the hell's the remote?"

Posted by: Turd Ferguson at July 01, 2015 10:46 AM (VAsIq)

195 cafe press is filtering "confederate flag" from search results...

Posted by: First-Rate Political Hack at July 01, 2015 10:46 AM (f5niE)

196 Also, there is a thriving western pleasure and rodeo scene in the Netherlands.

Posted by: Dave at Buffalo Roam at July 01, 2015 10:42 AM (L+eMF)

Here's some European western pleasure for ya: https://youtu.be/IZvpHwoQfqk

Posted by: Country Singer at July 01, 2015 10:46 AM (8hctH)

197 I'm pretty sure The Book of Revelation covers that.

Never refer to the 4 Horsemen of the Apocalypse as a horserace gone bad.

Posted by: rickb223 at July 01, 2015 10:46 AM (wGV1Q)

198 Scandi's on Western saddles. I think they just do it b/c they can wear chaps and spurs outside of their local bar.

Posted by: Brave Sir Robin at July 01, 2015 10:46 AM (5buP8)

199 I hate to admit that I am this shallow but a major factor in the reason I don't attend church regularly on Sundays is the book thread. I look forward to book thread all week and goes up just before church.

Posted by: The Great White Snark at July 01, 2015 10:46 AM (XUKZU)

200 Also, there is a thriving western pleasure and rodeo scene in the Netherlands.

It's none of our business what you do with your two lips.

Posted by: Blue Hen at July 01, 2015 10:46 AM (Spluw)

201 Never refer to the 4 Horsemen of the Apocalypse as a horserace gone bad.

Posted by: rickb223

Is this like saying Beetlejuice thrice?

Posted by: Turd Ferguson at July 01, 2015 10:47 AM (VAsIq)

202 Pleasure and rodeo scene?

Assless chaps?

Posted by: All Hail Eris at July 01, 2015 10:47 AM (Lk67m)

203 Lincolntf, "Mare's Sweat".

(obscure Forum ref)

Posted by: Dave at Buffalo Roam at July 01, 2015 10:47 AM (L+eMF)

204 "die f*g"

Die fog?

Maybe he just really hates fog.

Posted by: Citizen X at July 01, 2015 10:48 AM (7ObY1)

205 >>>the only remedy is to cut them off.

^^^THIS^^^

Most of the time, cutting things off is the only remedy.

Posted by: Caitlyn Jenner at July 01, 2015 10:48 AM (6qR/9)

206 199
I hate to admit that I am this shallow but a major factor in the reason I
don't attend church regularly on Sundays is the book thread. I look
forward to book thread all week and goes up just before church.

Posted by: The Great White Snark at July 01, 2015 10:46 AM (XUKZU)
No worries, we give the damned a ten-minute break on Sundays to read. However, there are only Kardashian biographies in the library

Posted by: Satan at July 01, 2015 10:49 AM (/2E+M)

207 All chaps are by definition, assless.

Posted by: Dave at Buffalo Roam at July 01, 2015 10:49 AM (L+eMF)

208 CBF are still available from www dot Gadsen and Culpepper dot com.

They may be out of stock, but they still carry them.

Posted by: rickb223 at July 01, 2015 10:49 AM (wGV1Q)

209 DOOM!!! is back.

Yay

Posted by: mynewhandle at July 01, 2015 10:49 AM (Zur5p)

210 Varoufakis: "The EU treaties make no provision for euro exit and we refuse to accept it. Our membership is not negotiable."

Erm, Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty is pretty clear: http://tinyurl.com/ctalshr

Posted by: Feh at July 01, 2015 10:49 AM (I3zSa)

211 Die, Fig!

Posted by: Newton at July 01, 2015 10:49 AM (2cS/G)

212 It's none of our business what you do with your two lips.

Posted by: Blue Hen

My lips, two blushing pilgrims, ready stand
To smooth that rough touch with a tender kiss.

Posted by: Romeo at July 01, 2015 10:49 AM (VAsIq)

213 Brilliant post, BTW, Montague.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this sh1t at July 01, 2015 10:50 AM (eEb+d)

214 However, there are only Kardashian biographies in the library

Posted by: Satan

At work yesterday, we received the latest book by Kim Kardashian--it's just a bunch of selfies she took. Seriously, Satan, you're working overtime lately.

Posted by: Turd Ferguson at July 01, 2015 10:50 AM (VAsIq)

215 Regarding the receding of Christian ethic in the culture war... I for one look forward to how God is going to work in our society when society forbids him to do so. The Christian church has floundered here, I think, because of a serious lack of persecution. Non-Christians often point to the dogmatic Christian believer who says one must believe in Christ to be saved, and they will ask smugly, "What about the heathen in Africa who has never heard of Christ and dies? If what you say is true how can you say God loved him?" Here in America, God can point to our society and say, "You were completely free to choose me, and you chose something else." The church is thriving in countries where it is being suppressed. I suspect the same will begin to occur here.

Additionally, I would add the observation that the Roman culture in which the early church largely took root had rampant hedonism and particularly the practice of homosexuality was widespread. Yet the church thrived.

Our mission as Christians is not to society. Our mission is to our individual neighbors, to love them and offer them Christ.

Be of good cheer, Christians. This was never your home anyway. Why should you be surprised that non-believers act like non-believers?

Posted by: Samuel at July 01, 2015 10:51 AM (i6yP0)

216 ALL CHAPS ARE BY DEFINITION, ASSLESS?

Posted by: Al Sharpton at July 01, 2015 10:51 AM (evdj2)

217 So Scarlet Witch is the younger sister of the Olsen twins.

Yep, totally random.

Posted by: RWC - Team BOHICA at July 01, 2015 10:51 AM (fWAjv)

218 207
All chaps are by definition, assless.

Posted by: Dave at Buffalo Roam at July 01, 2015 10:49 AM (L+eMF)

Wait, what?

Posted by: An Ass Wearing Chaps at July 01, 2015 10:51 AM (yYOXd)

219 Portugal may be next.

Posted by: Feh at July 01, 2015 09:58 AM (I3zSa)

Closely followed by Spain and Italy.

Posted by: wrg500 at July 01, 2015 09:59 AM (sgrzZ)

PIGS for the loss.

Posted by: steveegg at July 01, 2015 10:51 AM (cL79m)

220 As in Wisconsin with the prosecutor, the left can now literally storm into our homes with guns and terrorize and imprison us for exercising our first amendment rights.

WHAT IS OUR RECOURSE? And where is coward scott walker on this? A milquetoast statement doesn't cut it.

This is happening, yet the idiot repub electorate thinks jeb bush is the answer.

Posted by: Duncan MacLeod, the Highlander at July 01, 2015 10:51 AM (COpZ4)

221 Zoophiles are fucking subhuman assholes.

Posted by: Chinese monkey peanut zookeeper at July 01, 2015 10:51 AM (6qR/9)

222 All of the economic jargon is Greek to me.

Posted by: Cruzinator at July 01, 2015 10:51 AM (Q4pU/)

223 "That's OK, it's all borrowed money. I'm just waiting for the government to pick up the tab"

Posted by: jwest at July 01, 2015 10:43 AM (9ZZd+)
I try to deduct it, but the accountant says I cannot, at least not yet. Maybe if i was able to get a doctor to claim she has an addiction we can deduct as a medical expense.

Posted by: Penfold at July 01, 2015 10:51 AM (Fbt5B)

224 I knew a chap once, took up two seats on the bus, you telling me he was assless?

Posted by: Lincolntf at July 01, 2015 10:52 AM (2cS/G)

225 All chaps are by definition, assless.

Posted by: Dave at Buffalo Roam

Hey, now! Your arse ain't nothin' to write home about, neither!

Posted by: British people commonly referred to as "chap" at July 01, 2015 10:52 AM (VAsIq)

226 Δάγκωσέ με!

Posted by: Greece at July 01, 2015 10:52 AM (evdj2)

227 Weird how assless chaps so often lead to chapped asses at the M�bius Strip Club.

Posted by: All Hail Eris at July 01, 2015 10:53 AM (Lk67m)

228 >>>Though in a ZIRP environment, the "investment" side of the equation is barely worthwhile

ZIRP is derp.

Posted by: Frank Zirpa at July 01, 2015 10:53 AM (6qR/9)

229 Eventually the battle flag will rise again because, next time, its associations won't be with slavery or that asswipe Dylann Roof, but with anti-Big Brotherism.

The Left has basically changed the CBF's associations by being totalitarian pricks against it.

Posted by: Feh at July 01, 2015 10:53 AM (I3zSa)

230 If Spain and Italy go we may well have trouble. I'm understating, of course.

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at July 01, 2015 10:53 AM (LA7Cm)

231 Nood.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this sh1t at July 01, 2015 10:54 AM (eEb+d)

232 "That's OK, it's all borrowed money. I'm just waiting for the government to pick up the tab"

Posted by: jwest at July 01, 2015 10:43 AM (9ZZd+)

Yea, no... Once they run out of collateral, they start taking money out of bank accounts.

Posted by: Satan at July 01, 2015 10:54 AM (/2E+M)

233 @226

Hey, same to you, buddy!

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at July 01, 2015 10:55 AM (LA7Cm)

234 "PIGS for the loss."

Make your bed and sty in it, I guess. It's so gradual and well-meaning that it was easy to demonize those against it.

Those who are against creeping socialism are always right, in the end.

Posted by: Feh at July 01, 2015 10:56 AM (I3zSa)

235 I still think Greece will be bailed out eventually by the EU. Just like CA and IL and Puerto Rico will be by Uncle Sugar Daddy Barack.

Posted by: HUCK / AKIN 2016 at July 01, 2015 10:59 AM (0LHZx)

236 The recent failure of a SpaceX mission was a lousy end to a lousy week.

Yeah, I said over at PJM that it was the cherry on top.

Posted by: rickl at July 01, 2015 11:02 AM (zoehZ)

237 Frankly, I have concerns that I will be proof of spontaneous combustion when I again step foot in a church.
Posted by: Country Singer at July 01, 2015 10:19 AM (8hctH)

See, now that is proof of serious thinking. I commend you (in all sincerity). The LORD is no respecter of persons. Find the place that welcomes you. All other places, walk away, they are not practicing the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Posted by: Flyover Pilgrim at July 01, 2015 11:04 AM (YHP5A)

238 >>
224 I knew a chap once, took up two seats on the bus, you telling me he was assless?
Posted by: Lincolntf at July 01, 2015 10:52 AM (2cS/G) <<

Did you explain to him how rude it is to manspread?

Posted by: MacGruber at July 01, 2015 11:06 AM (sWgE+)

239 PET PEEVE:
The old saw that in a democracy "the people" deserve what they get always annoys me. Yes, the 52% deserve it, but the 48% do not. And the saddest thing is that the 48% are the most likely to be hurt.

I have relatives in Venezuela who despise the socialists and always opposed them. They don't "deserve" the loss of property, unemployment, and (in one case) imprisonment they have suffered.

As for the Europeans, not one single country voted for the EU and the euro. Where they would even allow a plebiscite, it failed. They most often never dared to put it to a popular vote. This was all imposed "by treaty."
But even if they had had 60% to approve it, the 40% would still exist.

Posted by: Margarita who wishes she drank more at July 01, 2015 11:10 AM (cN9Sk)

240 >>> Never refer to the 4 Horsemen of the Apocalypse as a horserace gone bad.

They never named the horses! The jockeys, sure.

Posted by: Bigby's Indian Sunburn at July 01, 2015 11:12 AM (3ZtZW)

241
I'd go to church, but every time I step into one I burst into flames.

Posted by: Tilikum Killer Assault Whale at July 01, 2015 11:26 AM (LWWrf)

242 My lousy two cents. Christians should not be fighting secularism. The religious belongs to the realm of faith; the secular belongs to the realm of economics/politics (in the most general terms). Christians witness through their lives, values, charities, faith. The "modern secular" for Western societies begins with limits to the religious strictures (and divine fiat) on thought, science, politics, individual/family lives.

Simply because American founders believed in
God (in a variety of ways - how about the slave-holders' God?), does not mean that the most magnificent values of this society developed because of religious faith. I would turn this idea around. Americans could develop the market, their ingenuity, creativity, productivity because of the "limits" and because of "law". When a person's faith/religion makes him/her stronger in support of American values, all the better. In fact, this kind of upbringing we know can develop the strongest, most courageous Americans.

Best to reread the 14th Amendment. "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws." Gay and lesbians were being denied in all sorts of way, mostly because of "faith" and religious traditions. We need to grow up. Had we taken care of the 14th Amendment protections, with a specific and honorable (and "equal") place for "partnerships" -- this diminution (and possibly destruction) of "marriage" might not have happened.

Posted by: pyromancer76 at July 01, 2015 11:35 AM (zvcr8)

243
I would like to point out that this country was founded on religious principles, namely that people were free to express their beliefs, and the state was to stay out of it. Because of the faith of the people of this nation, and the specific request for heavenly blessing from our founders and first president,we were blessed by God for many years.

With the abortion by court fiat, we lost some of that divine protection, and suffered. With the latest creation of law by the court regarding homosexuality, and the coming attack on religious freedom, all protection will be removed.

I expect very bad things to happen.

Posted by: Vashta Nerada at July 01, 2015 11:37 AM (vJki2)

244 The last time the Government saw Jesus it killed him.

Posted by: Boss Moss at July 01, 2015 11:42 AM (n3Sbm)

245 "When Christ calls a man, he bids him come and die."

The days of cheap grace are nearly done.

Posted by: Dietrich Bonhoeffer at July 01, 2015 11:46 AM (WEfbY)

246 as with a habitual drunkard, the only remedy is to cut them off.>>>

Umm does this mean no more ValuRite?

Posted by: Buzzsaw at July 01, 2015 11:59 AM (P/aDH)

247 "I for one look forward to how God is going to work in our society when society forbids him to do so.
Posted by: Samuel at July 01, 2015 10:51 AM (i6yP0)"

Classic paradoxical statement consistent with the truth of Christianity. Comments like this are another reason I enjoy this site.

Posted by: rrpjr at July 01, 2015 12:47 PM (s/yC1)

248 ""I for one look forward to how God is going to work in our society when society forbids him to do so."
---
This will make a great epitaph on the tombstone of the West. Actual reality always prevails over "social reality" in a long enough time frame. God/reality will march on.

Posted by: SocietyIs2Blame at July 01, 2015 01:16 PM (WIOql)

249 247 "I for one look forward to how God is going to work in our society when society forbids him to do so.
Posted by: Samuel at July 01, 2015 10:51 AM (i6yP0)"

Classic paradoxical statement consistent with the truth of Christianity. Comments like this are another reason I enjoy this site.

Posted by: rrpjr at July 01, 2015 12:47 PM (s/yC1)

Thanks for the compliment, I think. Not quite sure I understand your meaning.

Posted by: Sambo at July 01, 2015 01:29 PM (OlJ9S)

250 245 "When Christ calls a man, he bids him come and die."

The days of cheap grace are nearly done.
Posted by: Dietrich Bonhoeffer at July 01, 2015 11:46 AM (WEfbY)

Word!

Posted by: Sambo at July 01, 2015 01:37 PM (OlJ9S)

251 "It's probably time for me to find a church to
attend. If this war is going hot, I want there to be no doubt about
which side I'm on.

Posted by: Cloyd Freud, Unemployed at July 01, 2015 10:00 AM (YFw5T)

This
is the boat I'm in right now. After years of studiously avoiding
churches because I dislike the internal politics, I've come to the
conclusion that church politics < Cultural Marxist politics.

==============

Same. I'm three months into re-attending church.

As an atheist I've been surrounded by libertine Libertarians who confuse immediate self-gratification with rational self-interest for decades.

Now that lines are being drawn and sides chosen, I'd rather stand with those who recognize absolute external morality rather than lawyering and rationalizing morality to mean whatever gets their rocks off today without regard for the past or the future.

Frankly I find Christians have more in common with my brand of Objectivism than most Libertarians in the sense of rejecting subjective and relative value systems, recognizing duties are owed to the predecessors that lifted us up, and demanding that achievement (which requires effort and often privation to accomplish), not mere emotional "happiness," be our goal of life.

The Oprahfied version of self-interest held up as the ultimate aim of life by many Libertarians reverses cause and effect. You should seek goals and achievements whose accomplishment makes you happy, not seek happiness itself as a primary goal.

Like Objectivism, Christianity demands that you be a better person rather than merely saying you should "celebrate yourself" in the basest and most shallow sense of pursuing GoodFeels - which seems to be as far as most Libertarians are willing to pursue morality.

Posted by: SocietyIs2Blame at July 01, 2015 01:43 PM (WIOql)

252 MONTY! Love your work. I always look forward to it.

Posted by: Truck Monkey is a Mime..... Serious at July 01, 2015 02:50 PM (fLKzW)

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