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The Confederate Battle Flag: Two Views
Nikki Haley: It's Time to Take the Confederate Flag Down from the Statehouse
Update: As I was posting the Erickson-French debate, Nikki Haley announced that she was calling for the removal of the Confederate flag from the statehouse grounds.
Both opinions are nuanced, but Erick Erickson is mostly in favor of bringing down the flag (at least at the state house), and David French against that. Erick Erickson:The Bible tells me to love my neighbor. I have a number of black friends and I do not know any of them who would feel comfortable coming into my house if I were flying the Confederate battle flag. So I don't. In fact, in my life, the people I can think of who proudly fly the Confederate battle flag outside their homes are people in whose yards, let alone houses, I would not feel comfortable.David French:
I think if a Christian is to love his neighbor, he cannot fly a flag that so many of his neighbors associate with the defense of slavery. I agree with my friend Russell Moore in that, but I disagree in that I do think there are places that the Confederate flag is appropriate. I think it is appropriate at Confederate soldiers’ cemeteries. I think it is appropriate at Confederate memorials and museums. Frankly, considering a majority of citizens in Mississippi, both black and white, voted to keep it on their state flag, I think it is appropriate there. Mississippi, unlike many Southern states, put the Confederate battle flag on their state flag shortly after the Civil War, not in protest in the 1950’s and 60’s. Outside of those locations, I don’t think it is appropriate. You, like many of my friends and family, may think the Confederate battle flag is a symbol of heritage, not hate. But for millions of black Americans, it is a very real symbol of oppression.
. The martial history of our family is inseparable from the family story, and it includes men in gray. So I’ve followed this most recent round of debate over the Confederate battle flag with perhaps greater than normal interest. In the immediate aftermath of mass shootings, there is always a demand to "do something." Always, that demand involves gun control -- typically, gun-control measures that wouldn't have actually stopped the shooting in question. But often there's something more. In the aftermath of the Gabby Giffords shooting, the Left demanded "civility" -- despite zero evidence that the barking-mad perpetrator was motivated by any form of political discourse. Now the demand is to remove the Confederate battle flag from a Confederate memorial in South Carolina (and presumably elsewhere). The Atlantic’s Ta-Nehisi Coates, with characteristic vehemence, says, "Take down the flag. Take it down now." His call -- and others -- have resonated around the web. If the goal of our shared civic experience was the avoidance of pain, then we'd take down that flag. But that’s of course not the goal. There's a disturbing habit on the Left of trying to find the position that renders one especially virtuous in their identity politics culture -- regardless of its real-world impact -- and then sneering from that high ground at all who dissent....French makes a pretty case for preserving the flag, if a typical one (that is, honoring tradition, honoring those soldiers who fought with valor if not with the right). If I were to guess -- I'm not southern, so I don't know; I guess -- I would guess that the real reason many support the flag is because they feel besieged, they feel demanded to apologize for things they never did, to view themselves, as a race, as "bad people"...
From Ferguson to Charleston and beyond, anguish about race keeps building http://t.co/BLWVzFQxcN pic.twitter.com/jtuZHRiBji
— The New York Times (@nytimes) June 21, 2015Comments
(Jump to bottom of comments)1
Here we go....
Posted by: Garrett at June 22, 2015 03:52 PM (G3txG)
2
What flag can we take down to stop blacks from killing whites?
Posted by: NCKate at June 22, 2015 03:52 PM (+83oc)
3
>>>What flag can we take down to stop blacks from killing whites?
this is a very racial-tribal answer.
this is a very racial-tribal answer.
Posted by: ace at June 22, 2015 03:53 PM (bhepQ)
4
Flags?
Posted by: Turd Ferguson at June 22, 2015 03:54 PM (VAsIq)
5
I always enjoyed playing Steal the Flag.
Posted by: Turd Ferguson at June 22, 2015 03:54 PM (VAsIq)
6
*nods head* Forward! Time to take down the REAL Flag of Oppression, the Flag of the United States!
Posted by: SJWs United, Inc. at June 22, 2015 03:54 PM (sCHw2)
7
Why is it the Left NEVER has to give up anything?
Screw them. If they are afraid of a piece of fabric for God's sake, then that sounds like a personal problem.
Screw them. If they are afraid of a piece of fabric for God's sake, then that sounds like a personal problem.
Posted by: Bicentennialguy at June 22, 2015 03:55 PM (xMheo)
Posted by: Hillary Clinton at June 22, 2015 03:55 PM (HSmrB)
9
First off, thanks for saving us from that last thread.
Second off, am I the only person who doesn't give a shit about the confederate flag? Take it down, leave it, burn it, do whatever -- why is this trivial thing what I'm expected to devote mental energy to thinking about?
And as someone said in the last thread, when liberals burn the american flag they say "oh, you stupid hater, its just a piece of cloth. Of course we have the right to burn it!"
Yet when southerners fly the confederate flag, there's always a deeper meaning.
Second off, am I the only person who doesn't give a shit about the confederate flag? Take it down, leave it, burn it, do whatever -- why is this trivial thing what I'm expected to devote mental energy to thinking about?
And as someone said in the last thread, when liberals burn the american flag they say "oh, you stupid hater, its just a piece of cloth. Of course we have the right to burn it!"
Yet when southerners fly the confederate flag, there's always a deeper meaning.
Posted by: mynewhandle at June 22, 2015 03:55 PM (AkOaV)
10
On this week's Episode of Fun With Flags, we delve into some Not-So-Fun Flags.
Posted by: Dr. Sheldon Cooper at June 22, 2015 03:55 PM (G3txG)
11
i don't know. I accept that tribalism is part of the human condition, and always will be, but I do not think it should be paraded about so shamelessly.
"These blacks are angry at us for a white crime, but what about all the crimes these blacks are committing on us" is just so transparently a Racial Team statement.
I just don't think people are thinking when they say such things. They're channeling a million-year-old lizard-brain reaction to defend the tribe from outside aggressors.
I do not say it's a bad thing or makes you a bad person. but it just seems to me to be the sort of thing one would try to restrain a bit.
"These blacks are angry at us for a white crime, but what about all the crimes these blacks are committing on us" is just so transparently a Racial Team statement.
I just don't think people are thinking when they say such things. They're channeling a million-year-old lizard-brain reaction to defend the tribe from outside aggressors.
I do not say it's a bad thing or makes you a bad person. but it just seems to me to be the sort of thing one would try to restrain a bit.
Posted by: ace at June 22, 2015 03:56 PM (bhepQ)
12
Oh no....
Posted by: Ricardo Kill at June 22, 2015 03:56 PM (LA7Cm)
13
What it is is purely another political correctness act. There is no way South Carolina should give in to the screeching from the left. They should just say Fuck You.
Posted by: maddogg at June 22, 2015 03:56 PM (xWW96)
14
>>>7 Why is it the Left NEVER has to give up anything?
a lot of us gave up productive employment!!!! Does that count?!?!!???
a lot of us gave up productive employment!!!! Does that count?!?!!???
Posted by: The Left at June 22, 2015 03:56 PM (bhepQ)
15
OK, take them down.
And then.......what, exactly? Continued Dem control of urban areas. Clearly, removal of the flags will solve every stupid policy choice of the past fifty years.
And then.......what, exactly? Continued Dem control of urban areas. Clearly, removal of the flags will solve every stupid policy choice of the past fifty years.
Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at June 22, 2015 03:57 PM (659DL)
Posted by: 18-1 at June 22, 2015 03:57 PM (78TbK)
17
You can take my Rebel Flag when you bead blast my entire body and re-paint me my original factory finish.
Posted by: The General Lee at June 22, 2015 03:57 PM (G3txG)
18
My father made a prediction about ten years ago that we were getting to the point where Robert E. Lee would be universally considered a traitor to the United States instead of a patriot to Virginia.
The fight over the Confederate flag is akin to that line of thought, methinks.
I think the flag is fine where it is now (on a war memorial), and I'd rather that my elected officials made a serious distinction on that ground and that it's the flag of the army and not the Confederate nation, but it's a losing fight.
We're getting to the point where Lee and Stonewall Jackson will become as reviled as Calhoun, and I see that as a tragedy.
The fight over the Confederate flag is akin to that line of thought, methinks.
I think the flag is fine where it is now (on a war memorial), and I'd rather that my elected officials made a serious distinction on that ground and that it's the flag of the army and not the Confederate nation, but it's a losing fight.
We're getting to the point where Lee and Stonewall Jackson will become as reviled as Calhoun, and I see that as a tragedy.
Posted by: David at June 22, 2015 03:57 PM (UtRhK)
19
I'm offended by Baseball banners/flag. Get rid of them NOW11!!!!1!
Posted by: CSMBigBird at June 22, 2015 03:57 PM (jsWA8)
Posted by: Jane D'oh at June 22, 2015 03:57 PM (FsuaD)
21
As I said earlier that flag was placed aty that site as a compromise between the believers in SC Heritage and the blacks in the SC legislature. Until the SC legislature changes its mind with a new vote to remove it it will remain where it is at as written in SC law.
Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at June 22, 2015 03:58 PM (GpgJl)
22
Posted by: ace at June 22, 2015 03:56 PM (bhepQ)
Granted.
But it's a little unreasonable for the left to spend 50 years dividing people by race, and the last 10 years explicitly talking in racial terms (white people are born with "white privilege" by their very whiteness), then get all offended when white people start tribally identifying as white.
Granted.
But it's a little unreasonable for the left to spend 50 years dividing people by race, and the last 10 years explicitly talking in racial terms (white people are born with "white privilege" by their very whiteness), then get all offended when white people start tribally identifying as white.
Posted by: mynewhandle at June 22, 2015 03:58 PM (AkOaV)
23
*cackles in Boston accent* Lord, my Lord, I am not in any way overfilled with exhaustion of discussing this in a civilized manner, but, I say, caucasian people truly need to be horse-whipped.
Posted by: Shrillary's Vagina at June 22, 2015 03:58 PM (sCHw2)
24
The Stars and Bars won't ever escape its bad connotations and is easy money for race hucksters and socialists. No one needs the Stars and Bars. Knock that shit off.
Posted by: Feh at June 22, 2015 03:58 PM (izITN)
25
The Nazis came to power in 1933.
Posted by: Mr. Naron at June 22, 2015 03:58 PM (Q61Af)
26
And now... Fun With Flags!
And now... Fun With Flags!
Posted by: Sheldon Cooper at June 22, 2015 03:58 PM (wAQA5)
27
The denial now exists almost solely in the black community.
The black community as a whole is almost entirely racist.
The black community as a whole will almost entirely deny this fact.
The denial now exists almost solely in the black community.
The black community as a whole is almost entirely racist.
The black community as a whole will almost entirely deny this fact.
Posted by: Duh at June 22, 2015 03:58 PM (LPHFE)
28
Come to think of it, I don't recall a lot of Black Folk on The Dukes of Hazard.
Posted by: Garrett at June 22, 2015 03:58 PM (G3txG)
29
>>> Take down the Confederate flag....
...and replace it with the Gadsden flag.
...
i was thinking of that when i was speaking of the confederate flag as a symbol of defiance, but with the baggage of also being the pro-slavery flag.
Incidentally, Erickson and French agree on the flag as regards confederate graveyards, museums, monuments, etc. They disagree about the state house.
...and replace it with the Gadsden flag.
...
i was thinking of that when i was speaking of the confederate flag as a symbol of defiance, but with the baggage of also being the pro-slavery flag.
Incidentally, Erickson and French agree on the flag as regards confederate graveyards, museums, monuments, etc. They disagree about the state house.
Posted by: ace at June 22, 2015 03:58 PM (bhepQ)
30
Take it down and replace it with the actual flag of the CSA, not the battle flag.
Posted by: brak at June 22, 2015 03:59 PM (Tj+s6)
31
3
>>>What flag can we take down to stop blacks from killing whites?
this is a very racial-tribal answer. " (Ace)
This very blog told me just yesterday that all humans are intrinsically tribal, it's unavoidable: "Human beings are tribal by nature. Always have been, always will be. That's never going to change."
Thus how could we offer other than a tribal response?
>>>What flag can we take down to stop blacks from killing whites?
this is a very racial-tribal answer. " (Ace)
This very blog told me just yesterday that all humans are intrinsically tribal, it's unavoidable: "Human beings are tribal by nature. Always have been, always will be. That's never going to change."
Thus how could we offer other than a tribal response?
Posted by: Kate58 at June 22, 2015 03:59 PM (oLZsm)
32
I'm with French. Sorry, but it's never enough. They always want more. They'll demand the battle flag be removed because of the pain it causes, but cannot imagine the problem with Christians being deeply offended by the new Planned Parenthood clinic the Government helped fund down the street in their town. Nah, they just gotta take it.
The flag would lose it's power if it was ignored. It only has the FU power because the race-baiters give it that power. Take down the flag and next will be the demand that all Confederate statues and monuments be removed.. just watch.
The flag would lose it's power if it was ignored. It only has the FU power because the race-baiters give it that power. Take down the flag and next will be the demand that all Confederate statues and monuments be removed.. just watch.
Posted by: Yip at June 22, 2015 03:59 PM (e7T6D)
33
>>>The Nazis came to power in 1933.
i was told there would be no math.
I'm such a fucking dumbass.
i was told there would be no math.
I'm such a fucking dumbass.
Posted by: ace at June 22, 2015 03:59 PM (bhepQ)
34
For a less nuanced take, there's always Jason Lee Steorts.
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/420132/dishonorable-confederate-battle-flag-jason-lee-steorts
Amazingly the guy expresses an opinion that I agree with on the surface, and makes me want to take a completely different position.
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/420132/dishonorable-confederate-battle-flag-jason-lee-steorts
Amazingly the guy expresses an opinion that I agree with on the surface, and makes me want to take a completely different position.
Posted by: Paul at June 22, 2015 04:00 PM (P1jJI)
35
My tribe is my family. My family has no flag. I couldn't care less what happens with the confederate flag. If a flag can make people kill, then there have to be other flags out there making people kill as well.
Posted by: NCKate at June 22, 2015 04:00 PM (+83oc)
36
They should just say Fuck You.
Posted by: maddogg at June 22, 2015 03:56 PM (xWW96)
I mean, they can say "fuck you" -- and I really don't care either way -- but ace's point is a valid one. There are a lot of people who are offended (and there's merit to their offense in this situation, unlike most of the SJW preening) by the sight of it.
So if you don't mind gratuitously offending a large number of your fellow citizens, then by all means fly the confederate flag.
Posted by: maddogg at June 22, 2015 03:56 PM (xWW96)
I mean, they can say "fuck you" -- and I really don't care either way -- but ace's point is a valid one. There are a lot of people who are offended (and there's merit to their offense in this situation, unlike most of the SJW preening) by the sight of it.
So if you don't mind gratuitously offending a large number of your fellow citizens, then by all means fly the confederate flag.
Posted by: mynewhandle at June 22, 2015 04:00 PM (AkOaV)
37
Can we go back to when the Confederate flags meaning had to do with short shorts and jumping Dodge Chargers instead of the current trigger warnings?
Posted by: Buzzsaw at June 22, 2015 04:00 PM (aVYsC)
38
The black community as a whole is almost entirely racist.
The black community as a whole will almost entirely deny this fact.
Posted by: Duh at June 22, 2015 03:58 PM (LPHFE)
Hell, I'll deny this "fact"
The black community as a whole will almost entirely deny this fact.
Posted by: Duh at June 22, 2015 03:58 PM (LPHFE)
Hell, I'll deny this "fact"
Posted by: Sean Bannion at June 22, 2015 04:00 PM (V+kmg)
39
In the immediate aftermath of mass shootings, there is always a demand to "do something."
I don't really have an opinion on the Confederate battle flag (though I will come up with one soon and cut out your spleen if it differs from yours), but this is the part that bugs me.
There's always a pre-existing demand for change that hasn't had enough impetus to come into effect. The people who have been pushing -- unsuccessfully -- for that change seize on tragedy to say, "you see? You must implement our change now!"
It is both intellectually and emotionally dishonest.
In the immediate aftermath of mass shootings, there is always a demand to "do something."
I don't really have an opinion on the Confederate battle flag (though I will come up with one soon and cut out your spleen if it differs from yours), but this is the part that bugs me.
There's always a pre-existing demand for change that hasn't had enough impetus to come into effect. The people who have been pushing -- unsuccessfully -- for that change seize on tragedy to say, "you see? You must implement our change now!"
It is both intellectually and emotionally dishonest.
Posted by: Bandersnatch at June 22, 2015 04:00 PM (JtwS4)
40
i think I was actually dating the Nazi Empire, wrongly, as beginning the same time as Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade (1937)
Posted by: ace at June 22, 2015 04:00 PM (bhepQ)
41
and replace it with the Gadsden flag.
Posted by: 18-1 at June 22, 2015 03:57 PM (78TbK)
-------------------------------------------
It's a precise statement against anyone wanting to take away our freedoms. AND it's totally non-racial. I know for a fact that it gives the left-leaning tards the heeby jeebys, as it should.
Posted by: 18-1 at June 22, 2015 03:57 PM (78TbK)
-------------------------------------------
It's a precise statement against anyone wanting to take away our freedoms. AND it's totally non-racial. I know for a fact that it gives the left-leaning tards the heeby jeebys, as it should.
Posted by: Soona at June 22, 2015 04:00 PM (P25Hh)
42
30 Take it down and replace it with the actual flag of the CSA, not the battle flag.
Posted by: brak at June 22, 2015 03:59 PM (Tj+s6)
I think that's actually worse.
The battle flag is the flag the young men fought under when they defended their homes. The CSA flag is the political flag and rightfully holds all of the baggage that goes with the CSA's politics.
Posted by: brak at June 22, 2015 03:59 PM (Tj+s6)
I think that's actually worse.
The battle flag is the flag the young men fought under when they defended their homes. The CSA flag is the political flag and rightfully holds all of the baggage that goes with the CSA's politics.
Posted by: David at June 22, 2015 04:00 PM (UtRhK)
43
Sorry, Jane, come on back if you need cheering up/flaring anger.
Posted by: JohnnyBoy at June 22, 2015 04:01 PM (TPjwz)
44
then get all offended when white people start tribally identifying as white.
***
How about instead we just call anyone that uses the words "white privilege" a racist? Don't weaken it with reverse racist or anything like that.
I've often thought conservative could make up a fair amount of political ground by using the terms of the left.
Racialists like Sharpton or Holder? Racist.
Gay supremacists attacking Christian bakers? Bigots.
etc...
***
How about instead we just call anyone that uses the words "white privilege" a racist? Don't weaken it with reverse racist or anything like that.
I've often thought conservative could make up a fair amount of political ground by using the terms of the left.
Racialists like Sharpton or Holder? Racist.
Gay supremacists attacking Christian bakers? Bigots.
etc...
Posted by: 18-1 at June 22, 2015 04:01 PM (78TbK)
45
To me it comes down again to people redefining words, objects or actions to suit their grievances . Personally I would not have the confederate flag flown but I will defend the rights of those that choose to fly it.
But if we are going to ban flags, I demand that the Rainbow a Flag be banned.
But if we are going to ban flags, I demand that the Rainbow a Flag be banned.
Posted by: Cruzinator at June 22, 2015 04:01 PM (yCkeu)
46
Barack Obama is a SCOAMT.
Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - Not dead yet at June 22, 2015 04:01 PM (kff5f)
Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - Not dead yet at June 22, 2015 04:01 PM (kff5f)
48
>>i was told there would be no math.
I'm such a fucking dumbass.
It's all the rage on the ONT these days. Stop by for a logic problem, stay for the Compliance Pics.
I'm such a fucking dumbass.
It's all the rage on the ONT these days. Stop by for a logic problem, stay for the Compliance Pics.
Posted by: Garrett at June 22, 2015 04:01 PM (G3txG)
49
" I'm with French. Sorry, but it's never enough. They always want more. "
Then the response ought to be to make THEM give something up in return.
Like, no use of Soviet-style aesthetics, EVER. The Soviets were murderous, genocidal bastards. Any suggestion of the USSR is a trigger!
Then the response ought to be to make THEM give something up in return.
Like, no use of Soviet-style aesthetics, EVER. The Soviets were murderous, genocidal bastards. Any suggestion of the USSR is a trigger!
Posted by: Feh at June 22, 2015 04:01 PM (izITN)
50
First off, thanks for saving us from that last thread.
You shouldn't have needed saving. You should have had Last Thread Survival Gear.
First off, thanks for saving us from that last thread.
You shouldn't have needed saving. You should have had Last Thread Survival Gear.
Posted by: Bandersnatch at June 22, 2015 04:01 PM (JtwS4)
51
>>Incidentally, Erickson and French agree on the flag as regards confederate graveyards, museums, monuments, etc. They disagree about the state house.
Isn't that really the heart of the entire argument? I don't give a crap what flag you fly on your own property but why fly a flag that has a lot of baggage for many people on state property? A monument ok, a museum, of course but at the State House?
Isn't that really the heart of the entire argument? I don't give a crap what flag you fly on your own property but why fly a flag that has a lot of baggage for many people on state property? A monument ok, a museum, of course but at the State House?
Posted by: JackStraw at June 22, 2015 04:01 PM (g1DWB)
52
Sticks and stones can break my bones, but words can never hurt me.
Put those words or symbols on a flag, and that will disconcert me.
Put those words or symbols on a flag, and that will disconcert me.
Posted by: flounder at June 22, 2015 04:01 PM (Vf5rR)
53
I think if a Christian is to love his neighbor, he cannot fly a flag
that so many of his neighbors associate with the defense of slavery.
Exactly !
And the American Flag symbolizes racism and the Anglo theft of Mexican soil!
No more flags! Banderas no mas!
that so many of his neighbors associate with the defense of slavery.
Exactly !
And the American Flag symbolizes racism and the Anglo theft of Mexican soil!
No more flags! Banderas no mas!
Posted by: La Raza at June 22, 2015 04:01 PM (GxHdH)
54
What flag can we take down to keep blacks from killing blacks, that's a big problem
Posted by: Colin at June 22, 2015 04:01 PM (VVrB8)
55
Read the diaries of Confederates. Many were ambivalent about slavery -- almost none about white supremacy and exclusion of blacks from society. Every time I hear that somebody's great great great grandfather wasn't fighting for slavery, I ask: If he had been, what side would he have picked? Would they throw him out?
The Sioux, the Empire of Japan, and the Confederate States of America all hit the USA first, and why you'd fly that banner and then act shocked, shocked that the descendants of the 2/3 of America that answered the cannon fire at Fort Sumter, plus all the descendants of the immigrants who plead loyalty to the USA, act like you're an asshole, I don't get.
The Sioux, the Empire of Japan, and the Confederate States of America all hit the USA first, and why you'd fly that banner and then act shocked, shocked that the descendants of the 2/3 of America that answered the cannon fire at Fort Sumter, plus all the descendants of the immigrants who plead loyalty to the USA, act like you're an asshole, I don't get.
Posted by: Chris Balsz at June 22, 2015 04:02 PM (8rRE+)
56
Flag? Sure. Any excuse to dominate.
Posted by: Totalitarian at June 22, 2015 04:02 PM (+IuHY)
57
I live in PA. I am black. While I understand and am ok with flying the confederate flag in certain contexts such as those Erickson mentioned, I would definitely not feel comfortable, for example, around the guys I see in PA who have confederate flags as the front license plate on their tricks.
I do think the Nazi analogy is something we should consider.
I do think the Nazi analogy is something we should consider.
Posted by: chique d'afrique (the artist formerly known as african chick) at June 22, 2015 04:02 PM (shFKH)
58
>>>There's always a pre-existing demand for change that hasn't had enough impetus to come into effect. The people who have been pushing -- unsuccessfully -- for that change seize on tragedy to say, "you see? You must implement our change now!"
It is both intellectually and emotionally dishonest.
...
yes, and it's like a sharp-dealing funeral home salesman upselling you on the EternaRest 5000 model.
You are in a compromised state of mind, and he's giving you the must-decide-now speech.
Anyone who rushes you is someone who doesn't want you to think, and anyone who doesn't want you to think simply wishes to control you.
It is both intellectually and emotionally dishonest.
...
yes, and it's like a sharp-dealing funeral home salesman upselling you on the EternaRest 5000 model.
You are in a compromised state of mind, and he's giving you the must-decide-now speech.
Anyone who rushes you is someone who doesn't want you to think, and anyone who doesn't want you to think simply wishes to control you.
Posted by: ace at June 22, 2015 04:02 PM (bhepQ)
59
So a Che shirt is a F U from the left,
is the stars and bars a F U just from another point of view?
Bon Scott, from Austrailia would wear a stars and bars belt buckle from time to time
So a Che shirt is a F U from the left,
is the stars and bars a F U just from another point of view?
Bon Scott, from Austrailia would wear a stars and bars belt buckle from time to time
Posted by: Yo! at June 22, 2015 04:02 PM (q+zA9)
60
That flag is the battle flag. It is not the flag of the CSA. Different thing entirely. Having said that, NEITHER of them represent racism. Like a bunch of other people in the South (and elsewhere in the US), I am a Southerner and an American. Before the War Between The States (NOT a civil war), people who lived in these United States were citizens of their state first. I think anti-history idiots should just shut up about that flag, until they get some learning. And by learning I mean real history, not yankee-written history. I do not denounce myself. I have nothing to be ashamed of.
Posted by: Eromero at June 22, 2015 04:02 PM (go5uR)
Posted by: Feh at June 22, 2015 04:02 PM (izITN)
62
My father made a prediction about ten years ago that we were getting to the point where Robert E. Lee would be universally considered a traitor to the United States instead of a patriot to Virginia.
Some years back, the Robert E. Lee Council (Boy Scouts) was renamed as the Heart of Virginia Council. A few people still wear the Robert E. Lee Council patch. Pretty sure that some do so out of "fcuk you".
Some years back, the Robert E. Lee Council (Boy Scouts) was renamed as the Heart of Virginia Council. A few people still wear the Robert E. Lee Council patch. Pretty sure that some do so out of "fcuk you".
Posted by: physics geek at June 22, 2015 04:02 PM (MT22W)
63
I'm not sure about this one. On the one hand It probably would be a good idea to not have it flying over the State House. On the other a memorial to all those who lost their lives for that flag seems an appropriate place for it...
Posted by: donna at June 22, 2015 04:02 PM (Bn6aD)
64
I'd say on some theoretic sober dawn of American politics where everything is not made into a political battle I could see the Confed flag being retired and put away in musty boxes.
However, it's willful naivete to believe that this politico-powered frenzy to ban the flag is anything but that time.
This is another self-aggrandizing conspicuous display of will-to-power by the Left.
The flag is a macguffin; it's not at all important to the talking heads on the Left. Banning it or forcing capitulation on what the flag represents is just another self-awarded gold-star sticker in their neverending and obscene campaign for more power.
You will be made to applaud.
However, it's willful naivete to believe that this politico-powered frenzy to ban the flag is anything but that time.
This is another self-aggrandizing conspicuous display of will-to-power by the Left.
The flag is a macguffin; it's not at all important to the talking heads on the Left. Banning it or forcing capitulation on what the flag represents is just another self-awarded gold-star sticker in their neverending and obscene campaign for more power.
You will be made to applaud.
Posted by: weft cut-loop at June 22, 2015 04:02 PM (KoT6c)
65
i was told there would be no math.
I'm such a fucking dumbass.
Posted by: ace at June 22, 2015 03:59 PM
But you're our dumbass.
I'm such a fucking dumbass.
Posted by: ace at June 22, 2015 03:59 PM
But you're our dumbass.
Posted by: RedMindBlueState at June 22, 2015 04:03 PM (h4vJk)
66
You shouldn't have needed saving. You should have had Last Thread Survival Gear.
Posted by: Bandersnatch at June 22, 2015 04:01 PM (JtwS4)
....Today's Deal of the Day on Amazon.
Posted by: Bandersnatch at June 22, 2015 04:01 PM (JtwS4)
....Today's Deal of the Day on Amazon.
Posted by: Sean Bannion at June 22, 2015 04:03 PM (V+kmg)
67
Fuck.them.all.
Posted by: Grump928(c) at June 22, 2015 04:03 PM (evdj2)
68
The battle flag is the flag the young men fought under when they defended their homes. The CSA flag is the political flag and rightfully holds all of the baggage that goes with the CSA's politics
I agree with you, just being a smartass.
I've seen tributes to the 6 flag of Texas here that fly that flag with nary a peep from anyone, probably bc they don't recognize it.
I agree with you, just being a smartass.
I've seen tributes to the 6 flag of Texas here that fly that flag with nary a peep from anyone, probably bc they don't recognize it.
Posted by: brak at June 22, 2015 04:03 PM (Tj+s6)
69
So if you don't mind gratuitously offending a large number of your fellow citizens, then by all means fly the confederate flag.
Posted by: mynewhandle at June 22, 2015 04:00 PM (AkOaV)
They don't mind offending me. Screw them. I don't take my morals from screeching leftards, nor do I recognize them as an authority.
Posted by: mynewhandle at June 22, 2015 04:00 PM (AkOaV)
They don't mind offending me. Screw them. I don't take my morals from screeching leftards, nor do I recognize them as an authority.
Posted by: maddogg at June 22, 2015 04:03 PM (xWW96)
70
White privilege.
I am exactly three generations removed from a great-great grandfather that signed his name on his homestead deed with an X.
I am exactly three generations removed from a great-great grandfather that signed his name on his homestead deed with an X.
Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at June 22, 2015 04:03 PM (659DL)
71
There is just an incapability of black Americans to get their shit together.
"Whitey's holding me down! I can't breathe!"
Seriously. Tell me what it is you want to do, and then bring me proof that someone other than yourself is stopping you from doing it.
We need to keep bringing Asians into this utterly stupid argument. Do they have "yellow privilege?" Just keep hammering this question over and over and over and over and over.
Because the fact of the matter is that Asians have their shit together.
"Whitey's holding me down! I can't breathe!"
Seriously. Tell me what it is you want to do, and then bring me proof that someone other than yourself is stopping you from doing it.
We need to keep bringing Asians into this utterly stupid argument. Do they have "yellow privilege?" Just keep hammering this question over and over and over and over and over.
Because the fact of the matter is that Asians have their shit together.
Posted by: RKae at June 22, 2015 04:03 PM (7Sr/D)
Posted by: High Church of the Perpetually Butthurt at June 22, 2015 04:03 PM (GxHdH)
73
Pedantic whine:
The preNazi army was the Reichswehr. Hitler tore up Versailles and its 100,000 man limit and the ban on the general staff to create the Wehrmacht.
The preNazi army was the Reichswehr. Hitler tore up Versailles and its 100,000 man limit and the ban on the general staff to create the Wehrmacht.
Posted by: Chris Balsz at June 22, 2015 04:04 PM (8rRE+)
74
Just curious, Ace: Are people on the Right allowed to keep any symbols that cause butthurt on the Left?
I mean, slavery existed for decades under the United States flag. As such, displaying the stars and stripes could credibly "trigger" someone into believing that you support slavery. So perhaps the next step (and there is always a next step) will be to stop displaying the "racist" US flag?
I mean, we certainly wouldn't want to hurt anyone's precious feel-feels, or anything.
Just curious, Ace: Are people on the Right allowed to keep any symbols that cause butthurt on the Left?
I mean, slavery existed for decades under the United States flag. As such, displaying the stars and stripes could credibly "trigger" someone into believing that you support slavery. So perhaps the next step (and there is always a next step) will be to stop displaying the "racist" US flag?
I mean, we certainly wouldn't want to hurt anyone's precious feel-feels, or anything.
Posted by: Gomer at June 22, 2015 04:04 PM (ZUpsK)
75
It'sa symbol of a failed, defeated and oppressive nation that was established by, of and for democrats. The last flag that nation flew was solid white. We've got as much business defending it here as we do the black nationalists' flag.
Posted by: f2000 at June 22, 2015 04:04 PM (5xwgn)
76
Ace, I'd ask you to review Ex Machina (it was sidebarred here a couple months ago) but please never see it... it is crap. I don't know how it has all these high ratings from so many people. Total garbage I wish I had shut off.
Posted by: Mega at June 22, 2015 04:04 PM (hHFOx)
77
If I were to guess -- I'm not southern, so I don't know; I guess -- I would guess that the real reason many support the flag is because they feel besieged, they feel demanded to apologize for things they never did, to view themselves, as a race, as "bad people"...
I'm not southern either, so I have been staring at this debate with fairly dumb eyes.
I would tend to think the same, your closing sentence.
I need to read the entire post now
I'm not southern either, so I have been staring at this debate with fairly dumb eyes.
I would tend to think the same, your closing sentence.
I need to read the entire post now
Posted by: artisanal 'ette at June 22, 2015 04:04 PM (qCMvj)
78
The Butthurt is Strong with this Thread.
Posted by: Garrett at June 22, 2015 04:04 PM (G3txG)
79
How about the Democrats have a Democrat only vote on their flag and Team R sits it out.
#nowtoreadcontent
#nowtoreadcontent
Posted by: DaveA at June 22, 2015 04:04 PM (DL2i+)
80
Basically the Confederate flag is triggering, you guys!
Posted by: @votermom at June 22, 2015 04:04 PM (35/r4)
81
By the way nothing will ever be enough for the griever crowd..
Posted by: donna at June 22, 2015 04:04 PM (Bn6aD)
82
i think I was actually dating the Nazi Empire, wrongly, as beginning the same time as Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade
***
See that's what happens when you spend 10,000 lines per movie review.
***
See that's what happens when you spend 10,000 lines per movie review.
Posted by: 18-1 at June 22, 2015 04:04 PM (78TbK)
83
Yeeeeeeeeeeee-haaaaaaaaawwwwwwwww!
Posted by: Bo and Luke Duke at June 22, 2015 04:04 PM (Ejd3m)
84
I thought the problem was guns, now it's flags.
Or is it meaningless symbolism and rank opportunism?
Or is it meaningless symbolism and rank opportunism?
Posted by: Erasmus Hodag at June 22, 2015 04:04 PM (CeZq3)
85
@45... heh heh...... thought experiment. Picture some protesters.... burning and walking on rainbow flags... oh, the outrage !
Posted by: Yip at June 22, 2015 04:05 PM (e7T6D)
86
Flying the flag at your crib is just a little to tribal, y'all.
Posted by: Fritz at June 22, 2015 04:05 PM (UzPAd)
Posted by: mynewhandle at June 22, 2015 04:05 PM (AkOaV)
88
Projection, it's a way of life for the SJW's to force their world view on others.
Also, TFG is racist.
Also, TFG is racist.
Posted by: Gmac- Pulling in feelers in preperation... at June 22, 2015 04:05 PM (4CRfK)
89
But if we are going to ban flags, I demand that the Rainbow a Flag be banned.
this is a very sexual-tribal answer.
this is a very sexual-tribal answer.
Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at June 22, 2015 04:05 PM (W5DcG)
Posted by: Moderate Salami at June 22, 2015 04:06 PM (/Ho8c)
91
Seven people shot in Philadelphia, reportedly gunman at large, but Police vow to find and arrest the Confederate Battle Flag responsible for this carnage.
Seven people shot in Philadelphia, reportedly gunman at large, but Police vow to find and arrest the Confederate Battle Flag responsible for this carnage.
Posted by: Doctor Fish at June 22, 2015 04:06 PM (P330y)
92
I do think the Nazi analogy is something we should consider.
Posted by: chique d'afrique (the artist formerly known as african chick) at June 22, 2015 04:02 PM (shFKH)
That's a totally inaccurate analogy, Chique.
I'm ambivalent about the entire issue because I don't believe either side is being entirely intellecutally honest.
Posted by: chique d'afrique (the artist formerly known as african chick) at June 22, 2015 04:02 PM (shFKH)
That's a totally inaccurate analogy, Chique.
I'm ambivalent about the entire issue because I don't believe either side is being entirely intellecutally honest.
Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at June 22, 2015 04:06 PM (659DL)
93
>>>They don't mind offending me. Screw them. I don't take my morals from screeching leftards, nor do I recognize them as an authority.
you're making a cognitive error, though. You're assuming the worst motives for this proposition, and then burning down those straw men.
Without doubt, there are people with those Worst Motives who exist. In fact, I'd guess it's a majority or near-majority. Those with the Worst Motives who just want to bully you are a large fraction of those calling for this.
However, there are those with good motives, too --and you're not arguing with them, because it's easier to dismiss those with the Worst Motives.
Chique, for example, seems someone with good motives; her case, I think, would be far harder for you to dismiss.
you're making a cognitive error, though. You're assuming the worst motives for this proposition, and then burning down those straw men.
Without doubt, there are people with those Worst Motives who exist. In fact, I'd guess it's a majority or near-majority. Those with the Worst Motives who just want to bully you are a large fraction of those calling for this.
However, there are those with good motives, too --and you're not arguing with them, because it's easier to dismiss those with the Worst Motives.
Chique, for example, seems someone with good motives; her case, I think, would be far harder for you to dismiss.
Posted by: ace at June 22, 2015 04:06 PM (bhepQ)
94
"You will be made to applaud"
Then you take retribution and demand they applaud something you like. Why all this ceding of the initiative? Why do the socialists always get to play offense, when they should be doing nothing but playing defense as they skulk away with their shit-stained tails between their legs?
Then you take retribution and demand they applaud something you like. Why all this ceding of the initiative? Why do the socialists always get to play offense, when they should be doing nothing but playing defense as they skulk away with their shit-stained tails between their legs?
Posted by: Feh at June 22, 2015 04:06 PM (izITN)
95
Take it down plus make it a crime to wear a Che shirt or display a Communist flag from any former or current communist nation.
If we're restricting speech, let's fucking start with the supporters of 127 million murders.
If we're restricting speech, let's fucking start with the supporters of 127 million murders.
Posted by: Inspector Cussword at June 22, 2015 04:06 PM (5YStP)
96
"...but it does seem that at some point the most efficient course of action is to stop displaying the symbol, or to adopt a new one."
So, appease? Got it.
So, appease? Got it.
Posted by: Kevin at June 22, 2015 04:06 PM (QViPR)
97
Actually, I would think groups like the Black Panthers would like Civil War era flags because "Whiteys killing Whiteys."
Posted by: Rex B at June 22, 2015 04:06 PM (OXzvH)
98
Who the fuck is Greg Tate?
Posted by: Gaff at June 22, 2015 04:07 PM (jPS2y)
99
But if we are going to ban flags, I demand that the Rainbow a Flag be banned.
this is a very sexual-tribal answer.
That and the Mexican flag that is so prominently displayed in the US of A...
this is a very sexual-tribal answer.
That and the Mexican flag that is so prominently displayed in the US of A...
Posted by: donna at June 22, 2015 04:07 PM (Bn6aD)
100
>>>
15
OK, take them down.
And then.......what, exactly? Continued Dem control of urban areas.
Clearly, removal of the flags will solve every stupid policy choice of
the past fifty years.
Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at June 22, 2015 03:57 PM (659DL) <<<
I have it on the best of authorities that when the Flag comes down, this will be the moment when the rise of the oceans will slow, the Earth will began to heal, Washington DC will be functional, and all the racy raycist raycism will vanish, FOREVER.or something like that.....
15
OK, take them down.
And then.......what, exactly? Continued Dem control of urban areas.
Clearly, removal of the flags will solve every stupid policy choice of
the past fifty years.
Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at June 22, 2015 03:57 PM (659DL) <<<
I have it on the best of authorities that when the Flag comes down, this will be the moment when the rise of the oceans will slow, the Earth will began to heal, Washington DC will be functional, and all the racy raycist raycism will vanish, FOREVER.or something like that.....
Posted by: Professor of 0Bama-ology at June 22, 2015 04:07 PM (sCHw2)
101
Whatever happened to El DeBarge, anyway?
Posted by: Garrett at June 22, 2015 04:07 PM (G3txG)
102
>>>Ace, I'd ask you to review Ex Machina (it was sidebarred here a couple months ago) but please never see it... it is crap. I don't know how it has all these high ratings from so many people. Total garbage I wish I had shut off.
huh. Is it on PPV now?
huh. Is it on PPV now?
Posted by: ace at June 22, 2015 04:08 PM (bhepQ)
103
Or is it meaningless symbolism and rank opportunism?
Posted by: Erasmus Hodag at June 22, 2015 04:04 PM (CeZq3)
No, the problem is "unenlightened" white people.
It's all about cultural signifiers.
To the "elite" class in this country, guns, confederate flags, camouflage clothing (when not in the military), country music, etc. etc. etc. all signify "uneducated redneck hick".
In other words, its not the flag or the guns or whatever that they hate, it's the people who OWN confederate flags and OWN guns that they hate.
They're totally cool with their armed security carrying guns. The sight of a gun doesn't frighten them. The sight of a toothless redneck from fly over country ANGERS them though. Because they're offended that they have to share a country with such people.
(sorry if that's a little rambling, still trying to collect my thoughts on this)
Posted by: Erasmus Hodag at June 22, 2015 04:04 PM (CeZq3)
No, the problem is "unenlightened" white people.
It's all about cultural signifiers.
To the "elite" class in this country, guns, confederate flags, camouflage clothing (when not in the military), country music, etc. etc. etc. all signify "uneducated redneck hick".
In other words, its not the flag or the guns or whatever that they hate, it's the people who OWN confederate flags and OWN guns that they hate.
They're totally cool with their armed security carrying guns. The sight of a gun doesn't frighten them. The sight of a toothless redneck from fly over country ANGERS them though. Because they're offended that they have to share a country with such people.
(sorry if that's a little rambling, still trying to collect my thoughts on this)
Posted by: mynewhandle at June 22, 2015 04:08 PM (AkOaV)
104
If I can't get your guns, I'll get your FLAG!
So there! You smelly, redneck, unpeople from Jesus-land!
So there! You smelly, redneck, unpeople from Jesus-land!
Posted by: the 4 year old in the White House at June 22, 2015 04:08 PM (GxHdH)
105
you're making a cognitive error, though. You're assuming the worst motives for this proposition, and then burning down those straw men.
Posted by: ace at June 22, 2015 04:06 PM (bhepQ)
You must be new here.
Posted by: ace at June 22, 2015 04:06 PM (bhepQ)
You must be new here.
Posted by: Sean Bannion at June 22, 2015 04:08 PM (V+kmg)
106
95 Take it down plus make it a crime to wear a Che shirt or display a Communist flag from any former or current communist nation.
If we're restricting speech, let's fucking start with the supporters of 127 million murders.
----
Wait, this is a post about flying the confederate flag at the state house, isn't it? So why are you comparing it to personal speech like Che shirts?
If we're restricting speech, let's fucking start with the supporters of 127 million murders.
----
Wait, this is a post about flying the confederate flag at the state house, isn't it? So why are you comparing it to personal speech like Che shirts?
Posted by: Jenny Hates Her Phone at June 22, 2015 04:08 PM (nQW20)
107
If your truck has that hillbilly flag on it and tries to deliver/pick up materials at my plant, I will turn you around personally. Don't be an idiot and display that crap.
Posted by: Big Fat Meanie at June 22, 2015 04:08 PM (yib2+)
108
but it does seem that at some point the most efficient course of action is to stop displaying the symbol, or to adopt a new one.
good idea
of course, the Don't Tread on Me flag by the Tea Party got pooped on right away. And God got pee'd on.
But my ultra liberal sil's ex wears a REALLY BIG black and white CHE GUEVARA head t-shirt with pride. Not a word is said.
good idea
of course, the Don't Tread on Me flag by the Tea Party got pooped on right away. And God got pee'd on.
But my ultra liberal sil's ex wears a REALLY BIG black and white CHE GUEVARA head t-shirt with pride. Not a word is said.
Posted by: artisanal 'ette at June 22, 2015 04:08 PM (qCMvj)
109
Are any Mexican flags flying over any buildings? Demand they be taken down.
Posted by: Feh at June 22, 2015 04:08 PM (izITN)
110
Let's just get it over with and kick South Carolina out of the Union.
Posted by: Weasel at June 22, 2015 04:08 PM (e3bId)
111
I don't wear a London Boys t-shirt because people would interpret it and me a certain way. Sure I could defend it as some sort of musical pride thing.., but c'mon, the implication is there.
Posted by: wooga at June 22, 2015 04:08 PM (QhgyC)
Posted by: Chris Balsz at June 22, 2015 04:08 PM (8rRE+)
113
2 What flag can we take down to stop blacks from killing whites
Posted by: NCKate at June 22, 2015 03:52 PM (+83oc)
Not the point of the post.
I'm not going to rank slavery as practiced in the US against the Holocaust, but try to imagine that American blacks may feel the same way about it as Jews who were born after WWII might feel about the Holocaust.
Again, I don't think SC should succumb to pressure and take the flag down as what that deranged monster did and the flag flying are completely unrelated.
Posted by: NCKate at June 22, 2015 03:52 PM (+83oc)
Not the point of the post.
I'm not going to rank slavery as practiced in the US against the Holocaust, but try to imagine that American blacks may feel the same way about it as Jews who were born after WWII might feel about the Holocaust.
Again, I don't think SC should succumb to pressure and take the flag down as what that deranged monster did and the flag flying are completely unrelated.
Posted by: chique d'afrique (the artist formerly known as african chick) at June 22, 2015 04:08 PM (shFKH)
114
75
It'sa symbol of a failed, defeated and oppressive nation that was
established by, of and for democrats. The last flag that nation flew was
solid white. We've got as much business defending it here as we do the
black nationalists' flag.
Posted by: f2000
No scooter, the South never flew a white flag.
Read history before you try telling your version of it, that's revisionism.
Thanks for playing, you can crawl back under your rock now.
It'sa symbol of a failed, defeated and oppressive nation that was
established by, of and for democrats. The last flag that nation flew was
solid white. We've got as much business defending it here as we do the
black nationalists' flag.
Posted by: f2000
No scooter, the South never flew a white flag.
Read history before you try telling your version of it, that's revisionism.
Thanks for playing, you can crawl back under your rock now.
Posted by: Gmac- Pulling in feelers in preperation... at June 22, 2015 04:08 PM (4CRfK)
115
We get to keep our rainbow-colored version of the US flag though, right?
'Cause that's not offensive to anyone....
'Cause that's not offensive to anyone....
Posted by: Militant Gays Everywhere at June 22, 2015 04:09 PM (XlHZs)
116
Bon Scott, from Austrailia would wear a stars and bars belt buckle from time to time
Posted by: Yo! at June 22, 2015 04:02 PM (q+zA9)
--I always laugh when I see Ray from Trailer Park Boys in a wheelchair with a Canadian flag, a Confederate flag, and a Jolly Roger flag.
Posted by: Yo! at June 22, 2015 04:02 PM (q+zA9)
--I always laugh when I see Ray from Trailer Park Boys in a wheelchair with a Canadian flag, a Confederate flag, and a Jolly Roger flag.
Posted by: logprof at June 22, 2015 04:09 PM (Ejd3m)
117
"Then the response ought to be to make THEM give something up in return."
Che Guevara t-shirts and Mao hats?
Che Guevara t-shirts and Mao hats?
Posted by: f2000 at June 22, 2015 04:09 PM (5xwgn)
118
Nikki Haley is speaking right now and basically saying what I just did. Nothing wrong with flying the flag on private grounds but it shouldn't fly at the State House.
Seems about right to me.
Seems about right to me.
Posted by: JackStraw at June 22, 2015 04:09 PM (g1DWB)
119
>>> Let's just get it over with and kick South Carolina out of the Union.
hah! I'd like to get that started up among the left, the idea that they should just kick the old confederacy out of the union, just to shows 'em!
Then I move there the following week.
hah! I'd like to get that started up among the left, the idea that they should just kick the old confederacy out of the union, just to shows 'em!
Then I move there the following week.
Posted by: ace at June 22, 2015 04:09 PM (bhepQ)
120
Further, even admitting that there's a need for debate immediately after the massacre is nonsense.
The massacre should not be made into a political debate. We should even give them the football here.
All that needs pointing out is that their first reaction to the atrocity was to wrap the victims around their necks and run away playing Internet Justice Hero.
If that's not reason enough to tell the axe grinders that their motives are more than suspect, well, you got me...
The massacre should not be made into a political debate. We should even give them the football here.
All that needs pointing out is that their first reaction to the atrocity was to wrap the victims around their necks and run away playing Internet Justice Hero.
If that's not reason enough to tell the axe grinders that their motives are more than suspect, well, you got me...
Posted by: weft cut-loop at June 22, 2015 04:09 PM (KoT6c)
121
Sure, you can keep explaining to people that this symbol does not symbol what most would take it to symbolize... but it does seem that at some point the most efficient course of action is to stop displaying the symbol, or to adopt a new one.
Like the US flag?
Imagine some other country telling the US that we need to change our flag because Imperialism. Think we'd give them any fucks?
This is not an issue that others can change for those who fly the CSA flag, and especially not for the optics.
Let them be. And I say that as a supporter of the Unionist side.
Like the US flag?
Imagine some other country telling the US that we need to change our flag because Imperialism. Think we'd give them any fucks?
This is not an issue that others can change for those who fly the CSA flag, and especially not for the optics.
Let them be. And I say that as a supporter of the Unionist side.
Posted by: ConservativeMonster at June 22, 2015 04:09 PM (0NdlF)
Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at June 22, 2015 04:09 PM (659DL)
123
It's a precise statement against anyone wanting to take away our
freedoms. AND it's totally non-racial. I know for a fact that it gives
the left-leaning tards the heeby jeebys, as it should.
***
Yes...and let's make the left talk about why they are concerned about a flag that says "We have no kings, no masters, no rulers, and we will zealously defend our rights from anyone that wishes to take them."
freedoms. AND it's totally non-racial. I know for a fact that it gives
the left-leaning tards the heeby jeebys, as it should.
***
Yes...and let's make the left talk about why they are concerned about a flag that says "We have no kings, no masters, no rulers, and we will zealously defend our rights from anyone that wishes to take them."
Posted by: 18-1 at June 22, 2015 04:09 PM (78TbK)
124
OT Miley Cyrus comes out as genderqueer bisexual. Dating Stella Maxwell.
Posted by: Andrea Twerkin at June 22, 2015 04:09 PM (6qR/9)
125
Weren't the Democrats the Party of Slavery and the Republicans the party of Abolishion?
Wouldn't the Stars and Bars be a democrat flag?
how am I thinking about this wrong?
Weren't the Democrats the Party of Slavery and the Republicans the party of Abolishion?
Wouldn't the Stars and Bars be a democrat flag?
how am I thinking about this wrong?
Posted by: Yo! at June 22, 2015 04:09 PM (q+zA9)
126
118 Nikki Haley is speaking right now and basically saying what I just did. Nothing wrong with flying the flag on private grounds but it shouldn't fly at the State House.
Seems about right to me.
That was My thought too...
Seems about right to me.
That was My thought too...
Posted by: donna at June 22, 2015 04:09 PM (Bn6aD)
127
Easy solution. Replace all the confederate flags with Gonzales Flags.
Same F-You sentiment (more so, really), without the charges of racism.
Same F-You sentiment (more so, really), without the charges of racism.
Posted by: Lauren at June 22, 2015 04:09 PM (MYCIw)
128
The flag is a macguffin; it's not at all important to the talking
heads on the Left. Banning it or forcing capitulation on what the flag
represents is just another self-awarded gold-star sticker in their
neverending and obscene campaign for more power.
Yeah, this.
heads on the Left. Banning it or forcing capitulation on what the flag
represents is just another self-awarded gold-star sticker in their
neverending and obscene campaign for more power.
Yeah, this.
Posted by: HR braucht ein Bier at June 22, 2015 04:10 PM (ZKzrr)
129
32 The flag would lose it's power if it was ignored. It
only has the FU power because the race-baiters give it that power. Take
down the flag and next will be the demand that all Confederate statues
and monuments be removed.. just watch.
Posted by: Yip at June 22, 2015 03:59 PM (e7T6D)
The NAACP is already working on that in Richmond, VA and in Crestview, FL. A few years ago at a national convention of NAACP chapters they voted to eliminate ALL vestiges of the confederacy. So if Charleston folds over the battle flag they will continue their boycott and move on to another issue about the confederacy.
only has the FU power because the race-baiters give it that power. Take
down the flag and next will be the demand that all Confederate statues
and monuments be removed.. just watch.
Posted by: Yip at June 22, 2015 03:59 PM (e7T6D)
The NAACP is already working on that in Richmond, VA and in Crestview, FL. A few years ago at a national convention of NAACP chapters they voted to eliminate ALL vestiges of the confederacy. So if Charleston folds over the battle flag they will continue their boycott and move on to another issue about the confederacy.
Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at June 22, 2015 04:10 PM (GpgJl)
130
Look, if the Confederate battle flag is the most pressing issue regarding racism in America today, doesn't that mean we've pretty much solved the problem of racism?
You know, it's just a fucking flag.
And if that's all that's left, we should strike up the band, call a parade and have a week-long celebration for solving one of the hardest problems mankind has had.
Oh.
We're dealing with the trigger-warning, special, delicate snowflake crowd.
Not real humans who've faced real problems and real dangers.
You know, it's just a fucking flag.
And if that's all that's left, we should strike up the band, call a parade and have a week-long celebration for solving one of the hardest problems mankind has had.
Oh.
We're dealing with the trigger-warning, special, delicate snowflake crowd.
Not real humans who've faced real problems and real dangers.
Posted by: RoyalOil at June 22, 2015 04:10 PM (ZvKdv)
131
OT Miley Cyrus comes out as genderqueer bisexual. Dating Stella Maxwell.
I didn't see that coming S/
I didn't see that coming S/
Posted by: donna at June 22, 2015 04:10 PM (Bn6aD)
132
Tell Erickson to talk to his own legislators in Georgia. The SC Confederate Flag came OFF the state house over a decade ago as a "grand compromise," and was placed at the Confederate Soldiers Memorial on the grounds.
If you are from South Carolina, you should know that was regarded as the permanent solution when the deal was struck among flag defenders, black legislators, the Republican legislature, and Democratic Governor Jim Hodges.
If you are not from South Carolina, it's none of your damn business, Poindexter. Butt the flock out.
If you are from South Carolina, you should know that was regarded as the permanent solution when the deal was struck among flag defenders, black legislators, the Republican legislature, and Democratic Governor Jim Hodges.
If you are not from South Carolina, it's none of your damn business, Poindexter. Butt the flock out.
Posted by: Adjoran at June 22, 2015 04:10 PM (QIQ6j)
133
Posted by: chique d'afrique (the artist formerly known as african chick) at June 22, 2015 04:08 PM (shFKH)
The problem is most blacks never felt offended until they were told they needed to feel offended.
The problem is most blacks never felt offended until they were told they needed to feel offended.
Posted by: Cruzinator at June 22, 2015 04:10 PM (yCkeu)
134
Never let a crisis go to waste. If it isn't a crisis, stir the pot until it is. Do whatever it takes to create dissension and discontent.
We would be fools to allow this opportunity to heighten racial divisions and tension to pass.
We would be fools to allow this opportunity to heighten racial divisions and tension to pass.
Posted by: David Axelrude, red diaper baby at June 22, 2015 04:10 PM (9mTYi)
135
The Nazis came to power in 1933.
---------
Even still, Ace is mostly correct in this. It wasn't until after the Night of the Long Knives in June 1934 that basically eliminated the SA, that the Wehrmacht pledged allegiance to the Nazi regime and Hitler specifically.
Too lazy to research right now, but it could have been as late as 36 or 38 that the Wehrmacht started pledging allegiance not to the German state, but to Hitler.
---------
Even still, Ace is mostly correct in this. It wasn't until after the Night of the Long Knives in June 1934 that basically eliminated the SA, that the Wehrmacht pledged allegiance to the Nazi regime and Hitler specifically.
Too lazy to research right now, but it could have been as late as 36 or 38 that the Wehrmacht started pledging allegiance not to the German state, but to Hitler.
Posted by: Old Blue at June 22, 2015 04:10 PM (9iR5/)
136
They already reached this compromise for its current location. Maybe take this one down for a month or two, just in respect for the dead in this particular incident, where the perp was a racist nut that used it for his own hate. Then the fury will be over, and it won't be an "in your face" issue.
Posted by: Illiniwek at June 22, 2015 04:11 PM (8bK1p)
137
huh. Is it on PPV now?
Posted by: ace at June 22, 2015 04:08 PM
Out on blu ray in a couple days. Dark, disturbing, vacant, and to top it off, it appears to be a "social message" movie. Though the last part is arguable even though the director claims as much.
huh. Is it on PPV now?
Posted by: ace at June 22, 2015 04:08 PM
Out on blu ray in a couple days. Dark, disturbing, vacant, and to top it off, it appears to be a "social message" movie. Though the last part is arguable even though the director claims as much.
Posted by: Mega at June 22, 2015 04:11 PM (hHFOx)
138
>>>> ...and the flag represents, in three colors, the politically-important words "F***. You."
absolutely it does.
But its saying F--k you to the Civil Rights movement of the early 1960s.
Whatever it repesents, Southerners felt no need to display it on State grounds until they were forced by the Feds to integrate, abolish Jim Crow, etc etc.
So the flag itself is noble, but the purpose to which it has been brought is ignoble, IMHO.
absolutely it does.
But its saying F--k you to the Civil Rights movement of the early 1960s.
Whatever it repesents, Southerners felt no need to display it on State grounds until they were forced by the Feds to integrate, abolish Jim Crow, etc etc.
So the flag itself is noble, but the purpose to which it has been brought is ignoble, IMHO.
Posted by: Bigby's Roping Gloves at June 22, 2015 04:11 PM (3ZtZW)
139
Aren't there a bunch of Municipalities flying the Palestinian Rag?
Always crops up in the news around the time Rockets start raining down on Israelis.
Always crops up in the news around the time Rockets start raining down on Israelis.
Posted by: Garrett at June 22, 2015 04:11 PM (G3txG)
140
If you want a flag that says fuck you, why don't you just get a flag that says fuck you.
Posted by: Werner Heisenberg at June 22, 2015 04:11 PM (cgxNI)
141
Ace, you miss the point. The war was simply the Second English Civil War with Puritans determined to destroy Cavaliers. To make anything more of it is playing to the cheap seats. Warning to all Americans, don't elect Illinoisans to the the WH. It always turns out bad.
Posted by: Super Creepy Eric Hoteham at June 22, 2015 04:11 PM (oDCMR)
142
>>>I'm not going to rank slavery as practiced in the US against the Holocaust, but try to imagine that American blacks may feel the same way about it as Jews who were born after WWII might feel about the Holocaust.
slavery was pretty bad. I don't think some people have fully grappled with how serious a moral crime this was.
And it wasn't even like old Roman style slavery, where slavery was a legal state but did not, necessarily, indicate actual inferiority. (The plethora of Greek slave tutors, etc...)
This was a dehumanizing slavery in which human beings were bred and disciplined like animals.
slavery was pretty bad. I don't think some people have fully grappled with how serious a moral crime this was.
And it wasn't even like old Roman style slavery, where slavery was a legal state but did not, necessarily, indicate actual inferiority. (The plethora of Greek slave tutors, etc...)
This was a dehumanizing slavery in which human beings were bred and disciplined like animals.
Posted by: ace at June 22, 2015 04:11 PM (bhepQ)
143
126 shouldn't fly at the State House.
Seems about right to me.
That was My thought too...
Posted by: donna at June 22, 2015 04:09 PM (Bn6aD)
It is at a confederate memorial. It hasn't been on the State House since 2000.
Seems about right to me.
That was My thought too...
Posted by: donna at June 22, 2015 04:09 PM (Bn6aD)
It is at a confederate memorial. It hasn't been on the State House since 2000.
Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at June 22, 2015 04:11 PM (GpgJl)
144
However, there are those with good motives, too --and you're not arguing with them, because it's easier to dismiss those with the Worst Motives.
Chique, for example, seems someone with good motives; her case, I think, would be far harder for you to dismiss.
Posted by: ace at June 22, 2015 04:06 PM (bhepQ)
True, but as you suspect, and I am certain, the people with bad motives are far in the majority. And they are the ones who are screaming loudly and publicly. And will perceive any retreat on our part as a victory and an encouragement to proceed to the next issue in endless incrementalism.
Chique, for example, seems someone with good motives; her case, I think, would be far harder for you to dismiss.
Posted by: ace at June 22, 2015 04:06 PM (bhepQ)
True, but as you suspect, and I am certain, the people with bad motives are far in the majority. And they are the ones who are screaming loudly and publicly. And will perceive any retreat on our part as a victory and an encouragement to proceed to the next issue in endless incrementalism.
Posted by: maddogg at June 22, 2015 04:11 PM (xWW96)
145
An Erickson opinion "nuanced"? You use that word, but I do not think it means what you think it means. Erickson is about as nuanced as an aluminum bat.
Posted by: Adjoran at June 22, 2015 04:11 PM (QIQ6j)
146
Who the fuck is Greg Tate?
--------
A musician and "the godfather of hip hop journalism" according to Wikipedia.
--------
A musician and "the godfather of hip hop journalism" according to Wikipedia.
Posted by: Nigel West Dickens at June 22, 2015 04:12 PM (uz/Pv)
147
We're dealing with the trigger-warning, special, delicate snowflake crowd.
Don't give them an inch. They're less than children.
"No."
"But it makes me feel bad!"
"We don't care."
Don't give them an inch. They're less than children.
"No."
"But it makes me feel bad!"
"We don't care."
Posted by: ConservativeMonster at June 22, 2015 04:12 PM (0NdlF)
148
>>If you are not from South Carolina, it's none of your damn business, Poindexter. Butt the flock out.
Does that go for the murder too cause I'm damn tired of hearing that I am somehow responsible for that. You get that stopped and then maybe I will stop butting in about the flag.
Maybe not though.
Does that go for the murder too cause I'm damn tired of hearing that I am somehow responsible for that. You get that stopped and then maybe I will stop butting in about the flag.
Maybe not though.
Posted by: JackStraw at June 22, 2015 04:12 PM (g1DWB)
149
"The Atlantics Ta-Nehisi Coates"
Probably the stupidest person on the internet, he exists to flog identity politics. He has no skills or expertise in anything and is just a terrible writer in service to an egregious cause. It would be hard to find a better example of the vapidity of grievance culture.
Do they want to take pro-slavery Andrew Jackson off the $5? No, they want to take anti-slavery Hamilton off the $10. All of their sturm und drang has nothing to do with justice and everything to do with POWER, i.e. flogging their proles to the polls to vote them some more of it.
Probably the stupidest person on the internet, he exists to flog identity politics. He has no skills or expertise in anything and is just a terrible writer in service to an egregious cause. It would be hard to find a better example of the vapidity of grievance culture.
Do they want to take pro-slavery Andrew Jackson off the $5? No, they want to take anti-slavery Hamilton off the $10. All of their sturm und drang has nothing to do with justice and everything to do with POWER, i.e. flogging their proles to the polls to vote them some more of it.
Posted by: TallDave at June 22, 2015 04:12 PM (74ZYB)
150
Doesn't the governor of South Carolina have the clout to just walk over to the flagpole and lower the thing herself?
Posted by: Chris Balsz at June 22, 2015 04:12 PM (8rRE+)
151
This whole concept is reductive, and reductive in a way curiously and conveniently beneficial to the complaining side. They want us to all deal only in things we can all agree on, and by which they get to decide what we can all agree on by withholding their agreement.
Again, Fuck.Them.All.
Again, Fuck.Them.All.
Posted by: Grump928(c) at June 22, 2015 04:12 PM (evdj2)
152
The Nazis had pieces of flair that they made the Jews wear.
It's a bit different, though, when you are not asking anyone to do anything other than view a symbol of a past long gone, regardless of what that past or that symbol stood for. I mean, we are not asking people to self-segregate or avoid certain businesses or public spaces just on the display of a symbol. Are we?
It's a bit different, though, when you are not asking anyone to do anything other than view a symbol of a past long gone, regardless of what that past or that symbol stood for. I mean, we are not asking people to self-segregate or avoid certain businesses or public spaces just on the display of a symbol. Are we?
Posted by: Peter Gibbons at June 22, 2015 04:12 PM (Vf5rR)
153
Further, even admitting that there's a need for debate immediately after the massacre is nonsense.
***
I say we fight fire for fire.
Get a Republican in congress to file a bill that would bring back sparky as the punishment for 1st degree murder for federal crimes.
It would have *no effect* on this case, hell it might theoretically be a potential punishment currently, but let's start arguing with the left about whether mass murders should get the chair, and when they disagree ask why they support Mr Roof.
***
I say we fight fire for fire.
Get a Republican in congress to file a bill that would bring back sparky as the punishment for 1st degree murder for federal crimes.
It would have *no effect* on this case, hell it might theoretically be a potential punishment currently, but let's start arguing with the left about whether mass murders should get the chair, and when they disagree ask why they support Mr Roof.
Posted by: 18-1 at June 22, 2015 04:13 PM (78TbK)
154
"Nothing wrong with flying the flag on private grounds but it shouldn't fly at the State House."
Agreed, but I still think a proper response to taking it down is to go beyond that. Ok, don't ban a personal flag or a shirt, but at least use the occasion to link the Democrats to slavery, for Chrissakes.
Agreed, but I still think a proper response to taking it down is to go beyond that. Ok, don't ban a personal flag or a shirt, but at least use the occasion to link the Democrats to slavery, for Chrissakes.
Posted by: Feh at June 22, 2015 04:13 PM (izITN)
155
>>>True, but as you suspect, and I am certain, the people with bad motives are far in the majority. And they are the ones who are screaming loudly and publicly. And will perceive any retreat on our part as a victory and an encouragement to proceed to the next issue in endless incrementalism.
the fact that assholes might argue that 2+2=4 does not serve to make 2+2=4 a false statement.
the fact that assholes might argue that 2+2=4 does not serve to make 2+2=4 a false statement.
Posted by: ace at June 22, 2015 04:13 PM (bhepQ)
Posted by: Garrett at June 22, 2015 04:13 PM (G3txG)
157
The left is claiming they support the American flag?
*choke*
That's why they are trying to do away with them at schools (offensive to Mexicans!), stop the Pledge of Allegiance from being spoken, ...
The left is claiming they support the American flag?
*choke*
That's why they are trying to do away with them at schools (offensive to Mexicans!), stop the Pledge of Allegiance from being spoken, ...
Posted by: artisanal 'ette at June 22, 2015 04:13 PM (qCMvj)
158
"
hah! I'd like to get that started up among the left, the idea that they should just kick the old confederacy out of the union, just to shows 'em!
Then I move there the following week."
This is why we Texans don't care too much that we're the liberal boogeyman. Oh yes, yes, Texas is just awful. Super scary. You'd definitely be better off without us.
hah! I'd like to get that started up among the left, the idea that they should just kick the old confederacy out of the union, just to shows 'em!
Then I move there the following week."
This is why we Texans don't care too much that we're the liberal boogeyman. Oh yes, yes, Texas is just awful. Super scary. You'd definitely be better off without us.
Posted by: Lauren at June 22, 2015 04:13 PM (MYCIw)
159
OT Miley Cyrus comes out as genderqueer bisexual.
I'll never hear "The Best of Both Worlds" in the same way again.
I'll never hear "The Best of Both Worlds" in the same way again.
Posted by: some Hannah Montana fan at June 22, 2015 04:13 PM (ZtFr+)
160
Isn't that really the heart of the entire argument? I don't give a crap what flag you fly on your own property but why fly a flag that has a lot of baggage for many people on state property? A monument ok, a museum, of course but at the State House?
Posted by: JackStraw at June 22, 2015 04:01 PM (g1DWB)
Yep I've always found it a little weird to be flying a confederate flag on state property in modern times (albeit as part of a memorial supposedly). So I'm not invested in keeping the flag flying. On the other hand I'm also disinclined to give the left anything they want these days.
The flag itself had nothing to do with the shooting and Charleston has acquitted itself with grace and decency during the aftermath. So this is really about the left never letting a crisis go to waste and grabbing something they want out of a tragedy. On the other hand this is a stupid hill to fight on so ...conflicted.
Posted by: JackStraw at June 22, 2015 04:01 PM (g1DWB)
Yep I've always found it a little weird to be flying a confederate flag on state property in modern times (albeit as part of a memorial supposedly). So I'm not invested in keeping the flag flying. On the other hand I'm also disinclined to give the left anything they want these days.
The flag itself had nothing to do with the shooting and Charleston has acquitted itself with grace and decency during the aftermath. So this is really about the left never letting a crisis go to waste and grabbing something they want out of a tragedy. On the other hand this is a stupid hill to fight on so ...conflicted.
Posted by: Maetenloch at June 22, 2015 04:14 PM (pAlYe)
161
137
Fuck the confederate flag, it is a banner of treason.
Posted by: Confederacy was evil at June 22, 2015 04:11 PM (VsP9s)
heh.
Troll's comment could have been from at least 4 pro-Union regular AOS commentators .
137
Fuck the confederate flag, it is a banner of treason.
Posted by: Confederacy was evil at June 22, 2015 04:11 PM (VsP9s)
heh.
Troll's comment could have been from at least 4 pro-Union regular AOS commentators .
Posted by: some random meathead - if you're not drinking, you're not paying attention at June 22, 2015 04:14 PM (GxHdH)
Posted by: Feh at June 22, 2015 04:14 PM (izITN)
163
Chilling effect, 106. Ban it at State, in violation of State sovereignty and State rights under the 10th amendment, then it acts as a chilling infringement of personal speech everywhere.
If that IS the purpose - which it most obviously IS - then banning Communistic symbols should come FIRST, it has the greater death toll.
If we don't have freedom of speech, we have to start hunting down badthink - might as well start with true tyranny and work our way down. Right?
If that IS the purpose - which it most obviously IS - then banning Communistic symbols should come FIRST, it has the greater death toll.
If we don't have freedom of speech, we have to start hunting down badthink - might as well start with true tyranny and work our way down. Right?
Posted by: Inspector Cussword at June 22, 2015 04:14 PM (5YStP)
164
Nikki Haley: It's Time to Take the Confederate Flag Down from the Statehouse
Good for her.
She's a keeper.
Good for her.
She's a keeper.
Posted by: artisanal 'ette at June 22, 2015 04:14 PM (qCMvj)
Posted by: James Joyce, dead Irishman at June 22, 2015 04:14 PM (8CdUx)
166
If flags should be taken down due to the fact someone receives a hostile message over crap that happened a century and a half ago despite any conflicting or separate messages conveyed, there are some Native Americans who might have some things to say about the stars and stripes.
Posted by: Jollyroger at June 22, 2015 04:14 PM (t06LC)
167
I think its yet another example of the loss of cohesion in the US.
What was once a blessed melting pot of peoples and cultures has become a boiling cauldron seething with individuals and factions ("tribes") angrily promoting and procuring their own welfare above, and even to the detriment of, others. In their irrational pursuit of personal (and tribal) advantage by any means, they are wholly ignorant of the costs to themselves and our nation.
This above all else will doom us, and I personally think it is irretrievably broken and beyond repair.
What was once a blessed melting pot of peoples and cultures has become a boiling cauldron seething with individuals and factions ("tribes") angrily promoting and procuring their own welfare above, and even to the detriment of, others. In their irrational pursuit of personal (and tribal) advantage by any means, they are wholly ignorant of the costs to themselves and our nation.
This above all else will doom us, and I personally think it is irretrievably broken and beyond repair.
Posted by: 1bulwetweft at June 22, 2015 04:14 PM (nqiq9)
168
"The left is claiming they support the American flag? "
There you go. It's their shit sandwich. Now make them choke on it.
There you go. It's their shit sandwich. Now make them choke on it.
Posted by: Feh at June 22, 2015 04:15 PM (izITN)
169
The Confederate flag didn't kill anyone. Taking it down would save no future lives.
Once again, the Left has defined the narrative and their solution is the only one that can be considered.
Once again, the Left has defined the narrative and their solution is the only one that can be considered.
Posted by: Null at June 22, 2015 04:15 PM (xjpRj)
170
As a Northerner whose ancestors arrived here after the Civil War, I don't have a dog in this particular fight. I think it's a matter for South Carolinians to settle. What irritates me is the idea prevalent in 2015 America that flying or not flying a flag is some sort of big moral victory. That it's doing something or preventing something bad from happening. It's another sign that we're not a serious country. "Let's make a big deal about this flag so we can, once again, feel good about ourselves on the cheap without actually having to do anything hard or painful!"
And it's also a way for Northern leftists to assert their superiority. They haven't been able to stir up shit between blacks and whites down there over the shooting, so let's focus on the awful scary flag so we can remind people how benighted southerners are (compared to our enlightened race relations in Chicago, Detroit and Oakland).
And it's also a way for Northern leftists to assert their superiority. They haven't been able to stir up shit between blacks and whites down there over the shooting, so let's focus on the awful scary flag so we can remind people how benighted southerners are (compared to our enlightened race relations in Chicago, Detroit and Oakland).
Posted by: Donna V. (sans ampersands) at June 22, 2015 04:15 PM (u0lmX)
171
I think SC should outlaw the South African and Rhodesian flags, cuz, they were the only ones Cabbage Head was wearing when he went all Bill Ayers.
Posted by: Super Creepy Eric Hoteham at June 22, 2015 04:15 PM (oDCMR)
172
To be honest, I just don't want to do anything the left want's me to do.
Posted by: Jack Hagan at June 22, 2015 04:15 PM (U1iMh)
173
"This above all else will doom us, and I personally think it is irretrievably broken and beyond repair."
We thought that in 1976. Then came Reagan.
We thought that in 1976. Then came Reagan.
Posted by: Feh at June 22, 2015 04:15 PM (izITN)
174
Posted by: Gmac- Pulling in feelers in preperation... at June 22, 2015 04:08 PM (4CRfK)
Oh, so the meeting at Appomattox Court House was just a friendly gathering of West Point alums?
Nothing else happened there?
Oh, so the meeting at Appomattox Court House was just a friendly gathering of West Point alums?
Nothing else happened there?
Posted by: mynewhandle at June 22, 2015 04:16 PM (AkOaV)
175
This is why we Texans don't care too much that we're the liberal boogeyman. Oh yes, yes, Texas is just awful. Super scary. You'd definitely be better off without us.
Posted by: Lauren at June 22, 2015 04:13 PM (MYCIw)
but Austin is spreading
Posted by: Lauren at June 22, 2015 04:13 PM (MYCIw)
but Austin is spreading
Posted by: artisanal 'ette at June 22, 2015 04:16 PM (qCMvj)
176
"This was a dehumanizing slavery in which human beings were bred and disciplined like animals. "
As is always the case, the worst crimes against humanity occur when someone labels one group of human beings "non-persons".
As is always the case, the worst crimes against humanity occur when someone labels one group of human beings "non-persons".
Posted by: Lauren at June 22, 2015 04:16 PM (MYCIw)
177
I grew up in SC and attended Boys State 40-something years ago. After our tour of the state house, one of our group asked our guide why the confederate flag was (then) prominently displayed.
The answer, paraphrased, was 'because we don't like northerners coming down here and telling us what to do.'
They haven't changed. And they know that the day after they cave and take the flag away from the statehouse, the perpetually butthurt will be back with another thing they have to sacrifice on the altar of progressivism.
The answer, paraphrased, was 'because we don't like northerners coming down here and telling us what to do.'
They haven't changed. And they know that the day after they cave and take the flag away from the statehouse, the perpetually butthurt will be back with another thing they have to sacrifice on the altar of progressivism.
Posted by: George Tirebiter at June 22, 2015 04:16 PM (/zyrl)
178
Nikki Haley: It's Time to Take the Confederate Flag Down from the Statehouse
Isn't it down at the Statehouse (where it was raised by Democrat Fritz Hollings) and instead over the Confederate War Memorial? WTF? Honestly, WTF?
Isn't it down at the Statehouse (where it was raised by Democrat Fritz Hollings) and instead over the Confederate War Memorial? WTF? Honestly, WTF?
Posted by: Grump928(c) at June 22, 2015 04:16 PM (evdj2)
179
Whatever they do it will never be enough...
Posted by: donna at June 22, 2015 04:16 PM (Bn6aD)
180
the fact that assholes might argue that 2+2=4 does not serve to make 2+2=4 a false statement.
Posted by: ace at June 22, 2015 04:13 PM (bhepQ)
I think we can have an amicable settlement here. They disassemble the welfare state and we take down the battle flag. Seems fair to me.
Posted by: ace at June 22, 2015 04:13 PM (bhepQ)
I think we can have an amicable settlement here. They disassemble the welfare state and we take down the battle flag. Seems fair to me.
Posted by: maddogg at June 22, 2015 04:16 PM (xWW96)
181
All flags represent human events or inspiration. And therein lies the catch. No human is infallible. No human is without foul deeds. So what should we do? Ban all flags?
I'm with the people who think this is just another truth-to-power leftist ploy to destroy yet another piece of American history. And, yes, the CBF is a most prominent piece of American history.
And we all know they won't stop with just the flag. Look at everything else they've destroyed in this country. They won't be happy until every American tradition and institution has been thrown into the marxist grist mill.
I'm with the people who think this is just another truth-to-power leftist ploy to destroy yet another piece of American history. And, yes, the CBF is a most prominent piece of American history.
And we all know they won't stop with just the flag. Look at everything else they've destroyed in this country. They won't be happy until every American tradition and institution has been thrown into the marxist grist mill.
Posted by: Soona at June 22, 2015 04:16 PM (P25Hh)
Posted by: nip at June 22, 2015 04:16 PM (a6Odp)
183
108 but it does seem that at some point the most efficient course of action is to stop displaying the symbol, or to adopt a new one.
good idea
of course, the Don't Tread on Me flag by the Tea Party got pooped on right away. And God got pee'd on.
But my ultra liberal sil's ex wears a REALLY BIG black and white CHE GUEVARA head t-shirt with pride. Not a word is said.
Posted by: artisanal 'ette at June 22, 2015 04:08 PM (qCMvj)
Why is she so enamored with a mass murdering homophobe?
good idea
of course, the Don't Tread on Me flag by the Tea Party got pooped on right away. And God got pee'd on.
But my ultra liberal sil's ex wears a REALLY BIG black and white CHE GUEVARA head t-shirt with pride. Not a word is said.
Posted by: artisanal 'ette at June 22, 2015 04:08 PM (qCMvj)
Why is she so enamored with a mass murdering homophobe?
Posted by: Buzzion at June 22, 2015 04:16 PM (gtLBU)
184
My problem isn't so much with the immediate arguments, but with the implication.
Taking the flag down is conceding, "OK, you got us. This is hate speech, so we're taking it down."
This 1.) Legitimizes the idea that hate speech can or should be censored and 2.) gives the left all the power in deciding what hate speech is.
It is not a good precedent.
Taking the flag down is conceding, "OK, you got us. This is hate speech, so we're taking it down."
This 1.) Legitimizes the idea that hate speech can or should be censored and 2.) gives the left all the power in deciding what hate speech is.
It is not a good precedent.
Posted by: Gregory of Yardale at June 22, 2015 04:16 PM (O7MnT)
185
"but Austin is spreading"
Eh, kinda sorta. Austin itself is building up up up with a bunch of crappy Agenda 21 style apartments, but the suburbs of Austin are some of the most conservative places on the planet.
Eh, kinda sorta. Austin itself is building up up up with a bunch of crappy Agenda 21 style apartments, but the suburbs of Austin are some of the most conservative places on the planet.
Posted by: Lauren at June 22, 2015 04:17 PM (MYCIw)
186
If we're going to take down flags on the basis of their previous association with systematically racist governments, the federal flag has to come down too.
The original Constitution, whether we like to admit it or not, was flawed in many ways, not least of which was that it absolutely did codify and enforce differentials of treatment based upon racial origin.
The fact that the Constitution was amended a long while later does not wash out the original stain nor does it rectify the original terrible injuries inflicted by this disparate treatment.
Simple as that. The federal government is a racist creation. Implicitly, ineradicably bearing the mark of Cain. Tear down its flag and shut it down. Bulldoze its premises. Start again.
The original Constitution, whether we like to admit it or not, was flawed in many ways, not least of which was that it absolutely did codify and enforce differentials of treatment based upon racial origin.
The fact that the Constitution was amended a long while later does not wash out the original stain nor does it rectify the original terrible injuries inflicted by this disparate treatment.
Simple as that. The federal government is a racist creation. Implicitly, ineradicably bearing the mark of Cain. Tear down its flag and shut it down. Bulldoze its premises. Start again.
Posted by: torquewrench at June 22, 2015 04:17 PM (noWW6)
187
As the token orthodox yid on this site, let me put my two cents in.
There was a John Wayne movie called The Sea Chase, where the Duke played a traditional German Sea captain in WW2. In the movies denuomont , he removes the nazi flag and exchanges it for the Imperial German flag. I felt that to be a great scene , and a disproportionate number of German Jews served and died for the second Reich.
So if the dick licking never let a crisis go to waste left want to use this terrorist act to remove the "f-ck you" flag, I say fuck them. And next time an islamonazis nazi kills someone, we should demand the removal of the nearest mosque.
There was a John Wayne movie called The Sea Chase, where the Duke played a traditional German Sea captain in WW2. In the movies denuomont , he removes the nazi flag and exchanges it for the Imperial German flag. I felt that to be a great scene , and a disproportionate number of German Jews served and died for the second Reich.
So if the dick licking never let a crisis go to waste left want to use this terrorist act to remove the "f-ck you" flag, I say fuck them. And next time an islamonazis nazi kills someone, we should demand the removal of the nearest mosque.
Posted by: Avi at June 22, 2015 04:17 PM (4bND1)
188
And just so you know, there's a statue of George Washington, Slave Owner, on the very same grounds.
Posted by: Grump928(c) at June 22, 2015 04:17 PM (evdj2)
189
175 The flag reminds decent people why they look with disgust on ignorant southern white trash. Here is a compromise put up sign in front of diaper I mean flag : Your right you should never forget that you lost ignorant southern white trash!
Posted by: captain*arizona at June 22, 2015 04:15 PM (q1x/I)
Sorry to repost a trolls comment, but this is exactly what I'm getting at.
See, it's not about the guns or the flag or anything else, it's about how the left HATES the people they see as "ignorant southern white trash".
It's all about destroying THEIR "cultural indicators".
The left is incredibly bigoted and intolerant in this respect. Almost Naziesque in their hatred for the "out group"
Posted by: captain*arizona at June 22, 2015 04:15 PM (q1x/I)
Sorry to repost a trolls comment, but this is exactly what I'm getting at.
See, it's not about the guns or the flag or anything else, it's about how the left HATES the people they see as "ignorant southern white trash".
It's all about destroying THEIR "cultural indicators".
The left is incredibly bigoted and intolerant in this respect. Almost Naziesque in their hatred for the "out group"
Posted by: mynewhandle at June 22, 2015 04:17 PM (AkOaV)
Posted by: rickb223 at June 22, 2015 04:17 PM (tUTpw)
191
If flags should be taken down due to the fact
someone receives a hostile message over crap that happened a century
and a half ago despite any conflicting or separate messages conveyed,
there are some Native Americans who might have some things to say about
the stars and stripes.
Posted by: Jollyroger
Also, slavery persisted for many, many more years under the stars and stripes than any of the CSA flags.
someone receives a hostile message over crap that happened a century
and a half ago despite any conflicting or separate messages conveyed,
there are some Native Americans who might have some things to say about
the stars and stripes.
Posted by: Jollyroger
Also, slavery persisted for many, many more years under the stars and stripes than any of the CSA flags.
Posted by: Moderate Salami at June 22, 2015 04:17 PM (/Ho8c)
192
He tries hard but he's just not very smart.
Posted by: captain*arizona's mom at June 22, 2015 04:17 PM (uz/Pv)
193
I saw The Pro-Union Commenters open for Prince and the Revolution at the Pontiac Dome back in 87.
Posted by: Garrett at June 22, 2015 04:17 PM (G3txG)
194
Y'all do remember that the Emacipation Proclamation only freed slaves in the CSA states don't you??
Posted by: CSMBigBird at June 22, 2015 04:17 PM (jsWA8)
195
You raise that flag, I say raze that statehouse...
Posted by: William Tecumseh Sherman at June 22, 2015 04:18 PM (8rRE+)
196
So, now, do Florida, Georgia, Texas, and most of the other Southern states have to change their state flags, too?
Posted by: Moderate Salami at June 22, 2015 04:18 PM (/Ho8c)
Posted by: artisanal 'ette at June 22, 2015 04:18 PM (qCMvj)
198
I'm curious. Would taking the flag down keep it from being used as a symbol by racist losers? If the answer is no, then why wouldn't the next step have to be banning it altogether?
Are there any other symbols that would need to be banned because they, too, are used by losers of racist or some other stripe?
Are there any other symbols that would need to be banned because they, too, are used by losers of racist or some other stripe?
Posted by: OCBill at June 22, 2015 04:18 PM (cPg42)
199
Normally this shit waits for an election year when the Democrats need to stir up their voters. It's a real oddity to hear anything about it in off years.
Posted by: Grump928(c) at June 22, 2015 04:18 PM (evdj2)
200
151
Doesn't the governor of South Carolina have the clout to just walk over to the flagpole and lower the thing herself?
Posted by: Chris Balsz at June 22, 2015 04:12 PM (8rRE+)
No she doesn't. It was placed at its current location by an act of law.
Doesn't the governor of South Carolina have the clout to just walk over to the flagpole and lower the thing herself?
Posted by: Chris Balsz at June 22, 2015 04:12 PM (8rRE+)
No she doesn't. It was placed at its current location by an act of law.
Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at June 22, 2015 04:18 PM (GpgJl)
201
The left had no problem with the confederate flag while southerners voted democrat.
Posted by: Vashta Nerada at June 22, 2015 04:18 PM (20Zla)
202
"endless incrementalism" ?
the Left does that; not the Right. the Left never sleeps, never stops, never gives in on any issue at any moment
Generally, like the joke about the Jewish version of "Debbie Does Dallas" is "Debbie Does Nothing", the Right does nothing
the Left does that; not the Right. the Left never sleeps, never stops, never gives in on any issue at any moment
Generally, like the joke about the Jewish version of "Debbie Does Dallas" is "Debbie Does Nothing", the Right does nothing
Posted by: James Joyce, dead Irishman at June 22, 2015 04:19 PM (8CdUx)
203
The white power structure will take down the racist Confederate Flag in South Carolina, but they won't dare fuck with the New Black Panther's Flag or we will go ballistic on their honkey asses.
The white power structure will take down the racist Confederate Flag in South Carolina, but they won't dare fuck with the New Black Panther's Flag or we will go ballistic on their honkey asses.
Posted by: Malik Zulu Shabazz at June 22, 2015 04:19 PM (P330y)
204
I can see the point about the Confederate flag (I have ancestors who fought on both sides of the Civil War), but do we think they'll stop there?
What if they next decide that the Texas flag upsets our New Americans from the South? We already have a lot of institutions who act as if flying the American flag is offensive to immigrants.
I guess after watching progressives over the years we know it will not stop here - it will actually embolden the to *push harder*.
What if they next decide that the Texas flag upsets our New Americans from the South? We already have a lot of institutions who act as if flying the American flag is offensive to immigrants.
I guess after watching progressives over the years we know it will not stop here - it will actually embolden the to *push harder*.
Posted by: Lizzy at June 22, 2015 04:19 PM (k2QA3)
205
And Ace, can you please hammer Hector again?
Posted by: Grump928(c) at June 22, 2015 04:19 PM (evdj2)
206
We're not giving up the General Lee. So Fuck Off already.
Posted by: Iblis at June 22, 2015 04:19 PM (9221z)
207
And it wasn't even like old Roman style slavery, where slavery was a
legal state but did not, necessarily, indicate actual inferiority. (The
plethora of Greek slave tutors, etc...)
***
Heh? Early Roman slavery was horrible, from wiki
Slaves were considered property under Roman law and had no legal personhood. Unlike Roman citizens, they could be subjected to corporal punishment, sexual exploitation (prostitutes were often slaves), torture, and summary execution.
And it wasn't even like old Roman style slavery, where slavery was a
legal state but did not, necessarily, indicate actual inferiority. (The
plethora of Greek slave tutors, etc...)
***
Heh? Early Roman slavery was horrible, from wiki
Slaves were considered property under Roman law and had no legal personhood. Unlike Roman citizens, they could be subjected to corporal punishment, sexual exploitation (prostitutes were often slaves), torture, and summary execution.
Posted by: 18-1 at June 22, 2015 04:19 PM (78TbK)
208
Sacred honor compels me to say I'd hit Nikki like Godzilla smashing a biplane.
Posted by: The Great White Snark at June 22, 2015 04:19 PM (z5Gh/)
209
" If flags should be taken down due to the fact
someone receives a hostile message over crap that happened a century and a half ago despite any conflicting or separate messages conveyed, there are some Native Americans who might have some things to say about the stars and stripes.
Posted by: Jollyroger"
That omits the part about losing the damn war.
someone receives a hostile message over crap that happened a century and a half ago despite any conflicting or separate messages conveyed, there are some Native Americans who might have some things to say about the stars and stripes.
Posted by: Jollyroger"
That omits the part about losing the damn war.
Posted by: Chris Balsz at June 22, 2015 04:19 PM (8rRE+)
210
You know people are flying the 'ISIS' black flag of islam in the United States and I don't see much discussion about that....
Posted by: Yo! at June 22, 2015 04:19 PM (q+zA9)
211
Posted by: ace at June 22, 2015 04:11 PM (bhepQ)
The entire world practiced slavery during that period. The entire world was also much crueler at that time. Actions must be seen through eyes of that period and not judged entirely on the morals and ethics of today.
The entire world practiced slavery during that period. The entire world was also much crueler at that time. Actions must be seen through eyes of that period and not judged entirely on the morals and ethics of today.
Posted by: Cruzinator at June 22, 2015 04:19 PM (yCkeu)
212
@194: "slavery persisted for many, many more years under the stars and stripes than any of the CSA flags."
Including during that whole contretemps with the Southern states. The one where I could have immediately freed the slaves in the border states that stayed in the Union, but didn't.
Including during that whole contretemps with the Southern states. The one where I could have immediately freed the slaves in the border states that stayed in the Union, but didn't.
Posted by: Abraham Lincoln saying "My bad" at June 22, 2015 04:19 PM (amQXf)
213
I smell Hector the molester.
Posted by: maddogg at June 22, 2015 04:19 PM (xWW96)
214
I do not say it's a bad thing or makes you a bad person. but it just seems to me to be the sort of thing one would try to restrain a bit.
Posted by: ace at June 22, 2015 03:56 PM (bhepQ)This is why a common culture is so important, and why the left has constantly tried to destroy any common culture that we have. It's a lot easier to ignore things like skin color when you know that the person is like you in other ways.
I do not say it's a bad thing or makes you a bad person. but it just seems to me to be the sort of thing one would try to restrain a bit.
Posted by: ace at June 22, 2015 03:56 PM (bhepQ)This is why a common culture is so important, and why the left has constantly tried to destroy any common culture that we have. It's a lot easier to ignore things like skin color when you know that the person is like you in other ways.
Posted by: Colorado Alex at June 22, 2015 04:19 PM (OiH3z)
Posted by: Super Creepy Eric Hoteham at June 22, 2015 04:19 PM (oDCMR)
Posted by: brak at June 22, 2015 04:19 PM (Tj+s6)
217
Howie Carr ( timely) has article on good ole Fritz who put the flag up there... in '62 hahaha... love it. http://bit.ly/1RqQ5vc
( link to Boston Herald... totes)
( link to Boston Herald... totes)
Posted by: Yip at June 22, 2015 04:20 PM (e7T6D)
218
@198
They should if it has that symbols of hate in it.
Posted by: Confederacy was evil
Question is: do you know if they do or not?
They should if it has that symbols of hate in it.
Posted by: Confederacy was evil
Question is: do you know if they do or not?
Posted by: Moderate Salami at June 22, 2015 04:20 PM (/Ho8c)
219
The left is incredibly bigoted and intolerant in this respect. Almost Naziesque in their hatred for the "out group"
Posted by: mynewhandle at June 22, 2015 04:17 PM (AkOaV)
Like the previous post, the left supports Bill Ayers, a known terrorist because he's in their tribe.
Posted by: mynewhandle at June 22, 2015 04:17 PM (AkOaV)
Like the previous post, the left supports Bill Ayers, a known terrorist because he's in their tribe.
Posted by: artisanal 'ette at June 22, 2015 04:20 PM (qCMvj)
220
Now, now, let us not make the struggle any more difficult than it already is!
You Enemies of the State shalt have no other sources of pride, other than your shame for what most of you had nothing to do with.....
On the other hand, I love to wear my Che Guevara shirt and wave my NVA flag with "Death to America" on it, all while I am saying "Allahu-Akbar!" and burning the US Flag. *smug look*
You Enemies of the State shalt have no other sources of pride, other than your shame for what most of you had nothing to do with.....
On the other hand, I love to wear my Che Guevara shirt and wave my NVA flag with "Death to America" on it, all while I am saying "Allahu-Akbar!" and burning the US Flag. *smug look*
Posted by: Jeff Davis (D-Miss) at June 22, 2015 04:20 PM (sCHw2)
221
hmf. Cpt Asshat is here to show us what an insightful, logical, clear-thinking fellow he is. Expect erudite insights, logical arguments.
Actually, Asshat is emblematic of the febrile swamps of the untutored minds that IS the sophomoric left.
Is school out already?
Actually, Asshat is emblematic of the febrile swamps of the untutored minds that IS the sophomoric left.
Is school out already?
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at June 22, 2015 04:20 PM (9mTYi)
222
They should if it has that symbols of hate in it.
Posted by: Confederacy was evil
Question is: do you know if they do or not?
Don't feed the troll
They should if it has that symbols of hate in it.
Posted by: Confederacy was evil
Question is: do you know if they do or not?
Don't feed the troll
Posted by: donna at June 22, 2015 04:20 PM (Bn6aD)
Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at June 22, 2015 04:21 PM (659DL)
224
So, no outward manifestion of honor, valor, chilvary.
No pride, no shame. No chance for change.
Just the collective. Utopia, no more of anything to think about. Just like diversity is offensive.
Good luck with that. It does not work like that.
That is not fighting for the right to be.
I hear these days anything resembling common sense is offensive, and should get washed, and rinsed.
Should probably just blow up Giza, and the buddhas, and the Christians, and Jews. And the South.
And what makes any here think this is yours to do with whatever?
After the money is gone, and all the flags burned, you will get your nails dirty.
No pride, no shame. No chance for change.
Just the collective. Utopia, no more of anything to think about. Just like diversity is offensive.
Good luck with that. It does not work like that.
That is not fighting for the right to be.
I hear these days anything resembling common sense is offensive, and should get washed, and rinsed.
Should probably just blow up Giza, and the buddhas, and the Christians, and Jews. And the South.
And what makes any here think this is yours to do with whatever?
After the money is gone, and all the flags burned, you will get your nails dirty.
Posted by: first and last at June 22, 2015 04:21 PM (2z4UX)
225
OT Miley Cyrus comes out as genderqueer bisexual. Dating Stella Maxwell.
...................................................................
Hope Stellahas had all her shots.
OT Miley Cyrus comes out as genderqueer bisexual. Dating Stella Maxwell.
...................................................................
Hope Stellahas had all her shots.
Posted by: wth at June 22, 2015 04:21 PM (wAQA5)
226
Howie Carr ( timely) has article on good ole Fritz who put the flag up there... in '62 hahaha... love it. http://bit.ly/1RqQ5vc
( link to Boston Herald... totes)
Posted by: Yip at June 22, 2015 04:20 PM (e7T6D)
lol, awesome
( link to Boston Herald... totes)
Posted by: Yip at June 22, 2015 04:20 PM (e7T6D)
lol, awesome
Posted by: artisanal 'ette at June 22, 2015 04:21 PM (qCMvj)
Posted by: Moderate Salami at June 22, 2015 04:21 PM (/Ho8c)
228
David French is distinguishing between Confederate flags flown over Confederate monuments and those flown elsewhere; he is not saying "No flags down":
"Flying it as a symbol of white racial supremacy is undeniably vile, and any official use of the flag for that purpose should end, immediately. Flying it over monuments to Confederate war dead is simply history."
"Flying it as a symbol of white racial supremacy is undeniably vile, and any official use of the flag for that purpose should end, immediately. Flying it over monuments to Confederate war dead is simply history."
Posted by: m at June 22, 2015 04:21 PM (cI4LP)
229
Texas flag is an affront to our precious new undocumented Americanos whose ancestors bravely slew so many rebel tejanos at el alamo.
Posted by: @votermom at June 22, 2015 04:21 PM (+l9Bx)
230
Why is she so enamored with a mass murdering homophobe?
Because of the iconic picture of handsome Che with the soulful eyes. It doesn't matter what he did. He was-to the deluded women- a hunk who helped the poor.
Because of the iconic picture of handsome Che with the soulful eyes. It doesn't matter what he did. He was-to the deluded women- a hunk who helped the poor.
Posted by: FenelonSpoke at June 22, 2015 04:21 PM (OSs/l)
231
Maybe what we need is a new flag that we all can agree to and like. Maybe with the portrait of women or a unicorn. And rainbows and skittles.
Posted by: Super Creepy Eric Hoteham at June 22, 2015 04:21 PM (oDCMR)
232
To be honest, I just don't want to do anything the left want's me to do.
---------------
as a First Principle, you can't go wrong.
---------------
as a First Principle, you can't go wrong.
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at June 22, 2015 04:21 PM (9mTYi)
233
211 Sacred honor compels me to say I'd hit Nikki like Godzilla smashing a biplane.
Posted by: The Great White Snark at June 22, 2015 04:19 PM (z5Gh/)
"Ambisexual plane," H8er.
Posted by: The Great White Snark at June 22, 2015 04:19 PM (z5Gh/)
"Ambisexual plane," H8er.
Posted by: A dot at June 22, 2015 04:22 PM (vgIRn)
234
"the federal flag has to come down too"
after Obama signs onto all the climate change bullshit, that's next
you like the USA? You're a "Little Americaner"
the Global State is Our Glorious Future
after Obama signs onto all the climate change bullshit, that's next
you like the USA? You're a "Little Americaner"
the Global State is Our Glorious Future
Posted by: Feh at June 22, 2015 04:22 PM (izITN)
Posted by: Roman Slave at June 22, 2015 04:22 PM (0NdlF)
236
The stars and stripes flew while slavery was legal in some states of the U.S. Will we have to replace it, too?
Posted by: Sphynx at June 22, 2015 04:22 PM (OZmbA)
237
You're a patient Ewok, ace
Posted by: Jenny Hates Her Phone at June 22, 2015 04:22 PM (nQW20)
238
As is always the case, the worst crimes against humanity occur when someone labels one group of human beings "non-persons".
___
Also you can make a lot of money.
___
Also you can make a lot of money.
Posted by: Planned Parenthood at June 22, 2015 04:22 PM (78TbK)
239
"So, now, do Florida, Georgia, Texas, "
Florida and Texas flags have no connection with the battle flag so no need to change them. It's MS or AL that has an actual "stars and bars" portion on their state flag. Or did anyway.
Florida and Texas flags have no connection with the battle flag so no need to change them. It's MS or AL that has an actual "stars and bars" portion on their state flag. Or did anyway.
Posted by: Ricardo Kill at June 22, 2015 04:22 PM (LA7Cm)
240
It's worth keeping a couple of things in mind. Number one: They're talking about the confederate flag being flown by a state government. That puts that state government in the position of endorsing a particular viewpoint about it. Number two: I'm uncomfortable with the idea of taking down any flag when there is a non-trivial number of people who'd love to do the same with the Stars and Stripes. Number three: One could make a pretty good case that the rainbow flag is explicitly anti-Christian.
Posted by: Farmer Joe at June 22, 2015 04:22 PM (Q2akM)
241
<i>
And yet, this particular guy would be giving signals about himself. No,
he's not wearing a Nazi shirt, and no, he's not wearing it to honor the
Nazis.
And yet he knows he is plausibly confused with someone wearing Nazi uniforms, for the purpose of celebrating the Nazis.
And he's at peace with that. This is a signal he knows he's giving off, and doesn't seem to mind giving off.</i>
That was worth repeating.
And yet, this particular guy would be giving signals about himself. No,
he's not wearing a Nazi shirt, and no, he's not wearing it to honor the
Nazis.
And yet he knows he is plausibly confused with someone wearing Nazi uniforms, for the purpose of celebrating the Nazis.
And he's at peace with that. This is a signal he knows he's giving off, and doesn't seem to mind giving off.</i>
That was worth repeating.
Posted by: Retired Geezer at June 22, 2015 04:23 PM (ti6CY)
242
"a unicorn. And rainbows and skittles"
Excellent idea. Make a Hillary bumpersticker with that flag on it.
Excellent idea. Make a Hillary bumpersticker with that flag on it.
Posted by: Feh at June 22, 2015 04:23 PM (izITN)
243
The Big O flag with Obama's campaign logo on it would make a good national banner for the coming dictatorship.
Posted by: Sphynx at June 22, 2015 04:23 PM (OZmbA)
244
As is always the case, the worst crimes against humanity occur when someone labels one group of human beings "non-persons".
I can't help it. They're Auburn fans.
I can't help it. They're Auburn fans.
Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at June 22, 2015 04:23 PM (659DL)
245
After we're done debating the Confederate flag, we should next move on to the religion that prominently displays an instrument of torture and capital punishment as its primary symbol.
Posted by: ConservativeMonster at June 22, 2015 04:24 PM (0NdlF)
246
Flag? HA! We don' nee' no steenkin' flag to show what country is Numero Uno! *unfurls Mexican flag*
Posted by: Your local La Raza representative at June 22, 2015 04:24 PM (sCHw2)
247
the troll is a nazi. And also a Serbian mouth breather with a back hair problem.
Posted by: Donna V. (sans ampersands) at June 22, 2015 04:24 PM (u0lmX)
248
>>>Sacred honor compels me to say I'd hit Nikki like Godzilla smashing a biplane.
Posted by: The Great White Snark
I'd hit Nikki Haley like Ivan Drogo brain-fucking Apollo Creed.
Posted by: The Great White Snark
I'd hit Nikki Haley like Ivan Drogo brain-fucking Apollo Creed.
Posted by: ace at June 22, 2015 04:24 PM (bhepQ)
249
I will admit, Ace, that as my first reaction these days, if the Left is for it, I am against it, because their overt reasons are never the real reasons.
Posted by: maddogg at June 22, 2015 04:24 PM (xWW96)
250
For years they've been trying to pull down the statue of Jefferson Davis at the University of Texas. And now they're trying again. Never let a crisis go to waste, huh
Posted by: brak at June 22, 2015 04:24 PM (Tj+s6)
251
Sorry. It's MS and GA that have battle flag components in their flag.
Posted by: Ricardo Kill at June 22, 2015 04:24 PM (LA7Cm)
252
Mexico ended slavery in 1829, just 36 years before the USA.
Shouldn't the Mexican flag be a slavery flag too, if the US's is?
Mexico ended slavery in 1829, just 36 years before the USA.
Shouldn't the Mexican flag be a slavery flag too, if the US's is?
Posted by: Yo! at June 22, 2015 04:24 PM (q+zA9)
253
236 The stars and stripes flew while slavery was legal in some states of the U.S. Will we have to replace it, too?
I'm sure since Obama is so ashamed of the US He would like to replace it...
I hear the Earth flag is available
I'm sure since Obama is so ashamed of the US He would like to replace it...
I hear the Earth flag is available
Posted by: donna at June 22, 2015 04:24 PM (Bn6aD)
254
Shouldn't Hector be out sucking some burly Serb cock?
Posted by: logprof at June 22, 2015 04:24 PM (Ejd3m)
Posted by: Grump928(c) Native Texan and Alabama Alum, Twice Insufferable at June 22, 2015 04:24 PM (evdj2)
256
1 Here we go....
Posted by: Garrett at
----------------------------
That's about as far as I was willing to read without grabbing a beer.
But I will say this:
A) Crossbow
B) Mary Anne
C) Bailey
Posted by: Garrett at
----------------------------
That's about as far as I was willing to read without grabbing a beer.
But I will say this:
A) Crossbow
B) Mary Anne
C) Bailey
Posted by: chi's sandwIch at June 22, 2015 04:24 PM (Db4mp)
257
Gotta add my $0.02 to this one.
I was born in Massachusetts to a pair of rock-ribbed New Englanders, and raised in North Carolina. My ancestors never owned slave, and include a lot of proponents of abolition. I count myself, by God's grace, a Southerner, though I have ancestors who fought on the side of the Union. When the day comes that I am no longer a California wage slave and the wholly-owned subsidiary of a California mortgage, I will live again in the South, and probably in Carolina.
To me, and to many I know, that Virginia battle-flag (hint: it's not the flag of the Confederacy) represents Southern pride, Lynyrd Skynyrd, a car called the General Lee, and like the Betsy Ross flag, dissatisfaction with an overreaching government. Many who fought for the secessionists in the South rejected slavery; they were defending their States against an aggressor North that wouldn't allow them to go their own way without the Union.
Most of the people who oppose the Stars and Bars are looking for something to get offended at, and if there were no rebel flag, it would be something else. Many of those same people view the Gadsden flag as the symbol of the "rayciss teabagger Republicans" and will want it banned next.
I understand that there are those who, and reasonably, associate that rebel flag with slavery. I'd bet good money that not one in a hundred of them have ever taken the time to approach me or someone like me and ask "Pardon me, chum, but before I jump to the conclusion that you support the institution of chattel slavery because of that flag of yours, do you mind if I ask your stance on that?"
The Confederacy ceased to exist a hundred and fifty years ago. You want to know what's a symbol of slavery, bigotry, murder, and evil? The crescent moon and star of Islam. When these malcontents rise up as one and demand that the symbol of Islam be forever banned from American soil because of what it represents TODAY and the threat that it still is TODAY after 1400 years of unbroken hatred, then they can come to me and make the same demand of the rebel flag.
Yeah, long rant. Sue me.
I was born in Massachusetts to a pair of rock-ribbed New Englanders, and raised in North Carolina. My ancestors never owned slave, and include a lot of proponents of abolition. I count myself, by God's grace, a Southerner, though I have ancestors who fought on the side of the Union. When the day comes that I am no longer a California wage slave and the wholly-owned subsidiary of a California mortgage, I will live again in the South, and probably in Carolina.
To me, and to many I know, that Virginia battle-flag (hint: it's not the flag of the Confederacy) represents Southern pride, Lynyrd Skynyrd, a car called the General Lee, and like the Betsy Ross flag, dissatisfaction with an overreaching government. Many who fought for the secessionists in the South rejected slavery; they were defending their States against an aggressor North that wouldn't allow them to go their own way without the Union.
Most of the people who oppose the Stars and Bars are looking for something to get offended at, and if there were no rebel flag, it would be something else. Many of those same people view the Gadsden flag as the symbol of the "rayciss teabagger Republicans" and will want it banned next.
I understand that there are those who, and reasonably, associate that rebel flag with slavery. I'd bet good money that not one in a hundred of them have ever taken the time to approach me or someone like me and ask "Pardon me, chum, but before I jump to the conclusion that you support the institution of chattel slavery because of that flag of yours, do you mind if I ask your stance on that?"
The Confederacy ceased to exist a hundred and fifty years ago. You want to know what's a symbol of slavery, bigotry, murder, and evil? The crescent moon and star of Islam. When these malcontents rise up as one and demand that the symbol of Islam be forever banned from American soil because of what it represents TODAY and the threat that it still is TODAY after 1400 years of unbroken hatred, then they can come to me and make the same demand of the rebel flag.
Yeah, long rant. Sue me.
Posted by: Keith Arnold at June 22, 2015 04:24 PM (iIzG7)
258
>>OT Miley Cyrus comes out as genderqueer bisexual.
Another Hollyweird fcuk-up.
Bookworm has Bristol Palin's fabulous response to Miley, who not only "came out" but slammed her Christian parents:
"Is it just me, or does it seem more than a little fake
that someone claiming to be accepting of everyone and everything would
spew such judgment towards her own parents and their deeply held
religious beliefs?
She wants everyone else to let her be free to be Miley, but seems
unwilling to offer the same respect to her parents and those who wish to
live out their Christian faith.
Oh, Miley. Thanks for giving us the best example of what "tolerance" looks like in Hollywood: it looks a lot like contempt."
Another Hollyweird fcuk-up.
Bookworm has Bristol Palin's fabulous response to Miley, who not only "came out" but slammed her Christian parents:
"Is it just me, or does it seem more than a little fake
that someone claiming to be accepting of everyone and everything would
spew such judgment towards her own parents and their deeply held
religious beliefs?
She wants everyone else to let her be free to be Miley, but seems
unwilling to offer the same respect to her parents and those who wish to
live out their Christian faith.
Oh, Miley. Thanks for giving us the best example of what "tolerance" looks like in Hollywood: it looks a lot like contempt."
Posted by: Lizzy at June 22, 2015 04:24 PM (k2QA3)
259
So, since the civil war was not about slavery, either before or after the emancipation proclamation, how is the flag of the Army of Northern Virginia a symbol of slavery or racism? Because everyone on the left chooses to be willfully ignorant of history and the truth, I should admit that all of my ancestors are racist and not fly their flag? That makes the very same argument that all white people should own every racist or oppressive act ever committed by a white person. Many of the same ignoramuses also believe that the US flag is now a symbol of racism. As soon as you stop flying the US flag to avoid offending ignorant lefties (but I repeat myself), I will stop flying the Confederate flag.
Posted by: Scot at June 22, 2015 04:25 PM (L/qA6)
260
If you really want to understand the Confederacy, you'll have to read SC's Articles of Secession. I've only read it in the last couple years, and it's an impressive, well-reasoned document - you won't find much there to argue with. I think the flag should stand as a reminder that we lost 2% of the our population as a result of one half the country insisting on how the other half should live. Well, that and never give the bastards and inch - when was the last time that worked?
Posted by: Santa at June 22, 2015 04:25 PM (cU4mN)
261
It's MS or AL that has an actual "stars and bars" portion on their state flag.
Mississippi. Alabama's flag has never had that kind of device.
Mississippi. Alabama's flag has never had that kind of device.
Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at June 22, 2015 04:25 PM (659DL)
262
I find it interesting that the Confederate flag is a DEMOCRAT symbol, promoted by DEMOCRATS for the furtherance of DEMOCRATS.
See: Ernest Hollings, Bill Clinton, George Wallace, et al.
Yet it is the GOP and conservatives - the very party and people who with the clergy fought the DEMOCRATS in the Civil War and fought Jim Crow - who get blamed for racism.
So, okay. It's a symbol of racism/slavery. But the fact that it is WE who get tarred with that brush is what galls the living shit out of me. Even more galling is that no one on our side is setting the record straight once and for fucking all.
I find it interesting that the Confederate flag is a DEMOCRAT symbol, promoted by DEMOCRATS for the furtherance of DEMOCRATS.
See: Ernest Hollings, Bill Clinton, George Wallace, et al.
Yet it is the GOP and conservatives - the very party and people who with the clergy fought the DEMOCRATS in the Civil War and fought Jim Crow - who get blamed for racism.
So, okay. It's a symbol of racism/slavery. But the fact that it is WE who get tarred with that brush is what galls the living shit out of me. Even more galling is that no one on our side is setting the record straight once and for fucking all.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at June 22, 2015 04:25 PM (St6BJ)
263
The entire world practiced slavery during that period.
***
Slavery existed from long before history...
...until a group of "right wing Christianists" in Europe and America forced their morality on other people to make it stop.
***
Slavery existed from long before history...
...until a group of "right wing Christianists" in Europe and America forced their morality on other people to make it stop.
Posted by: 18-1 at June 22, 2015 04:25 PM (78TbK)
264
"So, now, do Florida, Georgia, Texas, "
Florida and Texas flags have no connection with the battle flag so
no need to change them. It's MS or AL that has an actual "stars and
bars" portion on their state flag. Or did anyway.
Posted by: Ricardo Kill
The single star of the Texas flag is directly related conceptually to the Bonnie Blue Flag, I believe, which has very strong CSA connections.
I may be mistaken on the relationship (could be the old Spanish flag), but the red cross of Florida's flag certainly evokes the CSA battle flag and naval jack.
"So, now, do Florida, Georgia, Texas, "
Florida and Texas flags have no connection with the battle flag so
no need to change them. It's MS or AL that has an actual "stars and
bars" portion on their state flag. Or did anyway.
Posted by: Ricardo Kill
The single star of the Texas flag is directly related conceptually to the Bonnie Blue Flag, I believe, which has very strong CSA connections.
I may be mistaken on the relationship (could be the old Spanish flag), but the red cross of Florida's flag certainly evokes the CSA battle flag and naval jack.
Posted by: Moderate Salami at June 22, 2015 04:25 PM (/Ho8c)
265
Mexico ended slavery in 1829, just 36 years before the USA.
Shouldn't the Mexican flag be a slavery flag too, if the US's is?
Posted by: Yo! at June 22, 2015 04:24 PM (q+zA9)
--That would be the Spanish flag.
Shouldn't the Mexican flag be a slavery flag too, if the US's is?
Posted by: Yo! at June 22, 2015 04:24 PM (q+zA9)
--That would be the Spanish flag.
Posted by: logprof at June 22, 2015 04:25 PM (Ejd3m)
266
What is your position on flag marriage?
Posted by: Don Lemon at June 22, 2015 04:25 PM (wAQA5)
267
I hope Capt. Asshat's dad doesn't give him any money for his birthday. I think he may have some suppressed rage problems.
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at June 22, 2015 04:26 PM (9mTYi)
268
Posted by: CSMBigBird at June 22, 2015 04:17 PM (jsWA
Yes. It only freed the slaves that Lincoln had no ability to actually free, since they were in the confederacy, a self declared separate country.
Slaves in northern states were not freed by Lincoln.
Does that really make a difference to this conversation though?
Yes. It only freed the slaves that Lincoln had no ability to actually free, since they were in the confederacy, a self declared separate country.
Slaves in northern states were not freed by Lincoln.
Does that really make a difference to this conversation though?
Posted by: mynewhandle at June 22, 2015 04:26 PM (AkOaV)
269
I guess this is the right decision, but I just despise that the issue is treated as though it motivated that little POS monster.
Posted by: Benji Carver at June 22, 2015 04:26 PM (OD2ni)
270
Are there any other symbols that would need to be banned because they, too, are used by losers of racist or some other stripe?.
http://is.gd/LXQCK3
http://is.gd/LXQCK3
Posted by: HR braucht ein Bier at June 22, 2015 04:26 PM (ZKzrr)
271
So, since the civil war was not about slavery, either before or after the emancipation proclamation, how is the flag of the Army of Northern Virginia a symbol of slavery or racism?
Yes, it was.
Can we please dispense with the rationalizations? Drives me nuts.
Yes, it was.
Can we please dispense with the rationalizations? Drives me nuts.
Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at June 22, 2015 04:26 PM (659DL)
272
You know where the stars-and-bars is really popular? West Virginia.
It's ironic, when you think about it.
It's ironic, when you think about it.
Posted by: Gregory of Yardale at June 22, 2015 04:26 PM (O7MnT)
273
>>>To be honest, I just don't want to do anything the left want's me to do.
---------------
as a First Principle, you can't go wrong.
...
i get that but this position can be taken to places of absurdity-- where the left basically gets you take to the wrong position by -- accidentally I'm sure -- itself taking the right one.
Mere contradiction isn't freedom of mind. If you're automatically contradicting whatever the left says, the left still dominates and controls your thinking. They say black, you say white.
---------------
as a First Principle, you can't go wrong.
...
i get that but this position can be taken to places of absurdity-- where the left basically gets you take to the wrong position by -- accidentally I'm sure -- itself taking the right one.
Mere contradiction isn't freedom of mind. If you're automatically contradicting whatever the left says, the left still dominates and controls your thinking. They say black, you say white.
Posted by: ace at June 22, 2015 04:26 PM (bhepQ)
274
@202 Grump, I had the same thought today while mowing the lawn... seems like a wasted divisive issue, no? heh heh.... they're getting desperate maybe..
Posted by: Yip at June 22, 2015 04:26 PM (e7T6D)
275
With all the demands for tolerance in civil discourse going in one direction today, I find the FUCK YOU argument very compelling.
Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at June 22, 2015 04:27 PM (8ZskC)
276
Alabama's St. Andrew's cross, adopted in the late 1800s, was patterned after the battle flag.
Posted by: Moderate Salami at June 22, 2015 04:27 PM (/Ho8c)
277
We are discussing a flag. A flag is a symbol of something. Symbols must be recognizable. As others have suggested, putting up a Gadsden flag would get the philosophically defensible point across, but it would not have the same oomph.
The Confederacy, for all the evil of slavery, had a valid point concerning the overreach of federal authority. That has not changed in the time since, if anything it has gotten worse. The First American Civil War was fought over slavery, yes, but it was also fought over the rights of states. Considering those on the sides of the states lost, much of what we see today is predictable fallout.
When the Confederate flag, of either variety, is flown, it may be a political statement and not an attempt at the usual race baiting. If so, it is protected speech under the first amendment. Whether or not it is the best symbol for the political aspect is debatable, but it does have oomph.
What is a symbol without oomph?
The Confederacy, for all the evil of slavery, had a valid point concerning the overreach of federal authority. That has not changed in the time since, if anything it has gotten worse. The First American Civil War was fought over slavery, yes, but it was also fought over the rights of states. Considering those on the sides of the states lost, much of what we see today is predictable fallout.
When the Confederate flag, of either variety, is flown, it may be a political statement and not an attempt at the usual race baiting. If so, it is protected speech under the first amendment. Whether or not it is the best symbol for the political aspect is debatable, but it does have oomph.
What is a symbol without oomph?
Posted by: CthulhuDreaming at June 22, 2015 04:27 PM (NB+Vr)
278
275 With all the demands for tolerance in civil discourse going in one direction today, I find the FUCK YOU argument very compelling.
Always a winner...
Always a winner...
Posted by: donna at June 22, 2015 04:27 PM (Bn6aD)
279
If you're automatically contradicting whatever the left says, the left still dominates and controls your thinking. They say black, you say white.
Ah, you want Abuse. Two doors down.
Ah, you want Abuse. Two doors down.
Posted by: Grump928(c) Native Texan and Alabama Alum, Twice Insufferable at June 22, 2015 04:27 PM (evdj2)
280
>>> I guess this is the right decision, but I just despise that the issue is treated as though it motivated that little POS monster.
well if the flag motivated him, I guess we can stop talking about gun control now! After all, the flag was the culprit!
well if the flag motivated him, I guess we can stop talking about gun control now! After all, the flag was the culprit!
Posted by: ace at June 22, 2015 04:27 PM (bhepQ)
281
The problem is most blacks never felt offended until they were told they needed to feel offended.
Posted by: Cruzinator at June 22, 2015 04:10 PM (yCkeu)
Um, black people aren't completely brainless. I think even the most unthinking person would be offended that his ancestors wears treated like inhuman chattel fire so long.
Heck, I don't even have any slave blood, and I get absolutely enraged when I watch or read anything about slavery (or apartheid). which is why I'm not about to see movies like 12 Years a Slave because I hate being I don't like being angry. So I can only imagine what the descendants of those slaves feel.
However, I am not particularly happy that any action was taken in relation to flying the flag that is in any way associated with that evil person's crime, because the two are completely unrelated. He would have done this whether or not any type of flag was flying.
And what kind of racist has black drinking buddies anyway? Crazy and evil.
Posted by: Cruzinator at June 22, 2015 04:10 PM (yCkeu)
Um, black people aren't completely brainless. I think even the most unthinking person would be offended that his ancestors wears treated like inhuman chattel fire so long.
Heck, I don't even have any slave blood, and I get absolutely enraged when I watch or read anything about slavery (or apartheid). which is why I'm not about to see movies like 12 Years a Slave because I hate being I don't like being angry. So I can only imagine what the descendants of those slaves feel.
However, I am not particularly happy that any action was taken in relation to flying the flag that is in any way associated with that evil person's crime, because the two are completely unrelated. He would have done this whether or not any type of flag was flying.
And what kind of racist has black drinking buddies anyway? Crazy and evil.
Posted by: chique d'afrique (the artist formerly known as african chick) at June 22, 2015 04:28 PM (shFKH)
282
Also, Six Flags Amusement Parks Corp. needs to change their name to Five Flags, as the original Six Flags was in Texas, from the six different flags which have flown over the state, one of those being the dreaded stars and bars.
Posted by: Vashta Nerada at June 22, 2015 04:28 PM (20Zla)
283
I do sort of get wanting to fly the flag though, even though I personally would never do it and get sort of embarrassed seeing it flying over one of my neighbor's RV's when I come into my neighborhood...
Supposedly one of my gg-grandmothers poisoned some yankee soldiers who took up residence at her farmhouse during the war.
And despite the fact that I would have been solidly on the side of those opposing slavery during the war, this fact makes me...proud.
Because, I have that f-you urge that recognizes so well the oppressive nature of the federal government. The south was right about federal overreach, but obviously dead wrong about the specific issue of slavery.
That's why I believe there are many people who are being completely honest about not flying the flag because of racism, but rather as a statement of protest against the overreaching government.
But it just doesn't work like that. There are better symbols that don't have the racial implications and those are the ones that should be flown.
Supposedly one of my gg-grandmothers poisoned some yankee soldiers who took up residence at her farmhouse during the war.
And despite the fact that I would have been solidly on the side of those opposing slavery during the war, this fact makes me...proud.
Because, I have that f-you urge that recognizes so well the oppressive nature of the federal government. The south was right about federal overreach, but obviously dead wrong about the specific issue of slavery.
That's why I believe there are many people who are being completely honest about not flying the flag because of racism, but rather as a statement of protest against the overreaching government.
But it just doesn't work like that. There are better symbols that don't have the racial implications and those are the ones that should be flown.
Posted by: Lauren at June 22, 2015 04:28 PM (MYCIw)
284
@36: "There are a lot of people who are offended (and there's merit to their
offense in this situation, unlike most of the SJW preening) by the sight
of it.
So if you don't mind gratuitously offending a large number of your fellow citizens, then by all means fly the confederate flag."
Yes, cave on something because it might hurt somebody's feewings. Or, you know, if you value personal liberty and freedom of expression, fly it. And hell, put a Jolly Roger (a symbol of murder, rapine, torture, etc., but somehow far more socially acceptable) below it.. That's the thing about living in any society that is to have any degree of freedom - people are, and have to be, free to give offense to others, and they have to accept being insulted in return.
If I choose to fly a rebel flag, fuck you if you don't like it. But, by the same token, if I choose to fly a rebel flag, I have to accept that some portion of the population may well tell me "fuck you for flying it". Liberty - it is a bitch.
offense in this situation, unlike most of the SJW preening) by the sight
of it.
So if you don't mind gratuitously offending a large number of your fellow citizens, then by all means fly the confederate flag."
Yes, cave on something because it might hurt somebody's feewings. Or, you know, if you value personal liberty and freedom of expression, fly it. And hell, put a Jolly Roger (a symbol of murder, rapine, torture, etc., but somehow far more socially acceptable) below it.. That's the thing about living in any society that is to have any degree of freedom - people are, and have to be, free to give offense to others, and they have to accept being insulted in return.
If I choose to fly a rebel flag, fuck you if you don't like it. But, by the same token, if I choose to fly a rebel flag, I have to accept that some portion of the population may well tell me "fuck you for flying it". Liberty - it is a bitch.
Posted by: Fa Cube Itches at June 22, 2015 04:28 PM (amQXf)
285
It's not about the flag, or slavery or what the flag may or may not stand for. it is about us using another terrible tragedy to make all of you who oppose us do what we want and like it. We will never stop, ever. First a flag, then the monuments, then your guns and then your ass.
Bet on it suckers and go get your shine boxes.
Bet on it suckers and go get your shine boxes.
Posted by: Joe Biden at June 22, 2015 04:28 PM (D0NZx)
286
Just so we're not paying any attention to this flag.
http://tinyurl.com/qecmrg9
http://tinyurl.com/qecmrg9
Posted by: DaveA at June 22, 2015 04:29 PM (DL2i+)
287
Ace,
I only have one issue with your thoughts - what "new symbol" of Southern heritage would the left be willing to accept?
I only have one issue with your thoughts - what "new symbol" of Southern heritage would the left be willing to accept?
Posted by: Daniel Simpson Day at June 22, 2015 04:29 PM (aA2hG)
288
>>> I hear the Earth flag is available
Posted by: donna at June 22, 2015 04:24 PM (Bn6aD) <<<<
Ohhhh, sorry, but I've already placed the Flag of the Martian Revolutionary Republic of Tyranny on the North Pole! I claim this planet in the name Mars!
*plays Martian Planetary Anthem on a 4-string kazoo*
Posted by: donna at June 22, 2015 04:24 PM (Bn6aD) <<<<
Ohhhh, sorry, but I've already placed the Flag of the Martian Revolutionary Republic of Tyranny on the North Pole! I claim this planet in the name Mars!
*plays Martian Planetary Anthem on a 4-string kazoo*
Posted by: Marvin the Martian at June 22, 2015 04:29 PM (sCHw2)
289
"You want to know what's a symbol of slavery, bigotry, murder, and evil? The crescent moon and star of Islam."
Yes.
Nice rant.
Take down the one flag above the capitol. Then use the same argument to exact change in TWO areas that hurt the socialist left.
Yes.
Nice rant.
Take down the one flag above the capitol. Then use the same argument to exact change in TWO areas that hurt the socialist left.
Posted by: Feh at June 22, 2015 04:29 PM (izITN)
290
276 Alabama's St. Andrew's cross, adopted in the late 1800s, was patterned after the battle flag.
Posted by: Moderate Salami at June 22, 2015 04:27 PM (/Ho8c)
--But wouldn't it be the original St. Andrew's Cross flag, Scotland's, be the ultimate pattern?
Posted by: Moderate Salami at June 22, 2015 04:27 PM (/Ho8c)
--But wouldn't it be the original St. Andrew's Cross flag, Scotland's, be the ultimate pattern?
Posted by: logprof at June 22, 2015 04:29 PM (Ejd3m)
291
I'd hit Nikki Haley like Ivan Drogo brain-fucking Apollo Creed.
Posted by: ace at June 22, 2015 04:24 PM (bhepQ)
/sigh
something else to Google
Posted by: ace at June 22, 2015 04:24 PM (bhepQ)
/sigh
something else to Google
Posted by: artisanal 'ette at June 22, 2015 04:30 PM (qCMvj)
292
The SC legislature could vote to remove the flag from the monument for one month in respect for the dead, with a statement that the historical significance of the flag in no way endorses the way Roof used it, for racial hatred.
This should be a rather singular event, and that action would put an exclamation point on the separation of the meanings. It would be a unifying decision, even though SC seems to be handling it pretty well, and it's mostly the left that is trying to stoke the fires of division.
This should be a rather singular event, and that action would put an exclamation point on the separation of the meanings. It would be a unifying decision, even though SC seems to be handling it pretty well, and it's mostly the left that is trying to stoke the fires of division.
Posted by: Illiniwek at June 22, 2015 04:30 PM (8bK1p)
293
Alabama's St. Andrew's cross, adopted in the late 1800s, was patterned after the battle flag.
Actually, no. It was patterned after the Spanish cross of Burgundy, which was used in southern Alabama in colonial times.
Actually, no. It was patterned after the Spanish cross of Burgundy, which was used in southern Alabama in colonial times.
Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at June 22, 2015 04:30 PM (659DL)
294
well if the flag motivated him, I guess we can stop talking about gun control now! After all, the flag was the culprit!
Posted by: ace
Yeah, about that...
Posted by: ace
Yeah, about that...
Posted by: The left's 100 march for Gov HealthCare at June 22, 2015 04:30 PM (KoT6c)
295
The war was about a lot of things, one of them being slavery. Issues of slavery (and largely the status of free states vs. slave states in the expanding West) were very important in triggering the war. But it was not a single-issue event.
The Emancipation Proclamation made it all about slavery.
The Emancipation Proclamation made it all about slavery.
Posted by: Moderate Salami at June 22, 2015 04:30 PM (/Ho8c)
296
I don't give a flying feck about the flag, but why do I feel that we just lost a rather large battle.
Posted by: jjod at June 22, 2015 04:30 PM (0r7PZ)
297
What we really need is to have a national discussion about the American flag we put on Mars. What does it day to those Martian folk that a bunch of lily white astronauts would just show up, land on their planet, stick in a flag and leave?
Posted by: Sheila Jackson Lee, (D)umbass at June 22, 2015 04:30 PM (8ZskC)
298
229
Texas flag is an affront to our precious new undocumented Americanos
whose ancestors bravely slew so many rebel tejanos at el alamo.
Posted by: @votermom
I Demand Texas and South Carolina be forced out!!
Texas flag is an affront to our precious new undocumented Americanos
whose ancestors bravely slew so many rebel tejanos at el alamo.
Posted by: @votermom
I Demand Texas and South Carolina be forced out!!
Posted by: Yip at June 22, 2015 04:30 PM (e7T6D)
299
So if you don't mind gratuitously offending a large number of your fellow citizens, then by all means fly the confederate flag.
I am personally triggered by the Islamic flag and rainbow LGBTBBQ flag.
When are those going to be hounded out of polite society?
I am personally triggered by the Islamic flag and rainbow LGBTBBQ flag.
When are those going to be hounded out of polite society?
Posted by: ConservativeMonster at June 22, 2015 04:31 PM (0NdlF)
300
#slaveryisbad
help end slavery that ended over a century ago by banning every flag that flew prior to 1860, or all the flags. Don't be a hater. Save a life. Back then.
help end slavery that ended over a century ago by banning every flag that flew prior to 1860, or all the flags. Don't be a hater. Save a life. Back then.
Posted by: Jollyroger at June 22, 2015 04:31 PM (t06LC)
301
Posted by: ace at June 22, 2015 03:56 PM (bhepQ)
F*ck that.
I've spent YEARS of my life watching each and every crime, big or small, perpetrated by a white person on a black person magnified to the point of rioting and then I'm told I share the blame, as a white man, for every dirty look a "minority" ever received in their life.
Take that racial tribe
shit and shove it - I'm in a "racial tribe" because I was rounded up and put there
(while I was busy living my life) by the leftist academia and media that are
purposefully dividing people by race, gender, etc, and in the process
making (straight male) whitey the fall guy for everyone's problems.
I
accept blame for nothing but my own actions. When I ask "what about this black on white crime over here..." I do it to BRING ATTENTION TO THE CRIME THAT IS IGNORED, to PROVE THE POINT. How many "knock out game" crimes have you seen smeared on TV news? How many middle class families have taken to the streets to avenge 80 year old Grandpa Smith who was knocked comatose by strangely unidentified "youths"?
Someone pulls that crap, you state in bold terms - "You wanna guilt me for a crime based on my race? Ok, let's check the stats to see what number YOUR color's up to? See, not such a good idea now, huh? Maybe you should reconsider that."
If people actually knew the stats of white on white, black on black, w on b, b on w, et al crime, this "woe is me, blame whitey" bullshit would dry up quicker than a swimsuit in a blast furnace.
F*ck that.
I've spent YEARS of my life watching each and every crime, big or small, perpetrated by a white person on a black person magnified to the point of rioting and then I'm told I share the blame, as a white man, for every dirty look a "minority" ever received in their life.
Take that racial tribe
shit and shove it - I'm in a "racial tribe" because I was rounded up and put there
(while I was busy living my life) by the leftist academia and media that are
purposefully dividing people by race, gender, etc, and in the process
making (straight male) whitey the fall guy for everyone's problems.
I
accept blame for nothing but my own actions. When I ask "what about this black on white crime over here..." I do it to BRING ATTENTION TO THE CRIME THAT IS IGNORED, to PROVE THE POINT. How many "knock out game" crimes have you seen smeared on TV news? How many middle class families have taken to the streets to avenge 80 year old Grandpa Smith who was knocked comatose by strangely unidentified "youths"?
Someone pulls that crap, you state in bold terms - "You wanna guilt me for a crime based on my race? Ok, let's check the stats to see what number YOUR color's up to? See, not such a good idea now, huh? Maybe you should reconsider that."
If people actually knew the stats of white on white, black on black, w on b, b on w, et al crime, this "woe is me, blame whitey" bullshit would dry up quicker than a swimsuit in a blast furnace.
Posted by: Saltydonnie at June 22, 2015 04:31 PM (zBwYh)
302
Different country, same problem:
I'm pretty sure I've seen more Spanish flags flying in Miami than in Spain. And the reason is rather similar: the left uses it as a reminder of the Civil War and Franco, and if you fly the flag, you are a fascist who accepts the atrocities committed by Franco (meanwhile, USSR and PRC flags have no similar connotations with regards to Gulags and, my personal favorite, the Great Leap Forward).
In Miami, you'll also see plenty of Cuban flags, and shown by people who are very anti-Castro. They are thinking of the country that was their home, what it is currently, and many times, the family they left behind. They are not endorsing Castro.
Countries have negative portions of their history. Hanging or removing a flag will not change it. And though the target is the Confederate Flag now, in no time it'll be Old Glory, which was also the flag of the South before secession. They'll move the target once they get what they want.
Having said all that, there's not much you can argue in favor of wearing a shirt in praise of a known murderer... say, for example, Che Guevara. But guess who loves wearing those?
I'm pretty sure I've seen more Spanish flags flying in Miami than in Spain. And the reason is rather similar: the left uses it as a reminder of the Civil War and Franco, and if you fly the flag, you are a fascist who accepts the atrocities committed by Franco (meanwhile, USSR and PRC flags have no similar connotations with regards to Gulags and, my personal favorite, the Great Leap Forward).
In Miami, you'll also see plenty of Cuban flags, and shown by people who are very anti-Castro. They are thinking of the country that was their home, what it is currently, and many times, the family they left behind. They are not endorsing Castro.
Countries have negative portions of their history. Hanging or removing a flag will not change it. And though the target is the Confederate Flag now, in no time it'll be Old Glory, which was also the flag of the South before secession. They'll move the target once they get what they want.
Having said all that, there's not much you can argue in favor of wearing a shirt in praise of a known murderer... say, for example, Che Guevara. But guess who loves wearing those?
Posted by: Nutsy the Buzzard at June 22, 2015 04:31 PM (lJJaE)
303
"The single star of the Texas flag is directly related conceptually to the Bonnie Blue Flag,"
Texas flag adopted in 1839.
Texas flag adopted in 1839.
Posted by: Ricardo Kill at June 22, 2015 04:31 PM (LA7Cm)
304
I told Roscoe to lock up those Duke boys since their car is a micro-aggression.
Posted by: Boss Hogg at June 22, 2015 04:31 PM (OD2ni)
305
>>>The problem is most blacks never felt offended until they were told they needed to feel offended.
Posted by: Cruzinator at June 22, 2015 04:10 PM (yCkeu)
oh god. oh god.
please don't say this. it's embarrassing.
this is a neo-confederate claim that blacks just didn't know they were supposed to be upset by Jim Crow (or anything since) until some trouble-making Yankee Carpetbaggers came in and filled their empty negro heads full of Jew subversions.
Please, for god's sake.
Posted by: Cruzinator at June 22, 2015 04:10 PM (yCkeu)
oh god. oh god.
please don't say this. it's embarrassing.
this is a neo-confederate claim that blacks just didn't know they were supposed to be upset by Jim Crow (or anything since) until some trouble-making Yankee Carpetbaggers came in and filled their empty negro heads full of Jew subversions.
Please, for god's sake.
Posted by: ace at June 22, 2015 04:31 PM (bhepQ)
306
help end slavery that ended over a century ago by banning every flag that flew prior to 1860, or all the flags. Don't be a hater. Save a life. Back then.
Start with Maryland.
Start with Maryland.
Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at June 22, 2015 04:32 PM (659DL)
307
can we just retire old nonsense like that that sounds even more racist than whatever racially-controversial thing we're currently discussing?
Posted by: ace at June 22, 2015 04:32 PM (bhepQ)
308
It's the flag now, but then we move onto gun control next.
Posted by: Colin at June 22, 2015 04:32 PM (VVrB8)
309
192 It shouldn't be on the junk heap of history. It should be kept as an artifact like plantations, slave quarters, and battle fields. It should be remembered even it represented a huge mistake, because it cost scores of men their lives.
Posted by: Wendy at June 22, 2015 04:32 PM (KydDZ)
310
Another bullshit made-up issue; the kwanzaa of outrage.
Posted by: Jay Guevara at June 22, 2015 04:32 PM (oKE6c)
311
Can we please dispense with the rationalizations? Drives me nuts.
Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at June 22, 2015 04:26 PM (659DL)
It was about slavery to *some* people, but for most people it wasn't. Most of the soldiers fighting were poor and uneducated and did not own slaves or care about it. That's not how the war was "sold" to Southerners (the vast majority of whom did not own slaves). It was "sold" as an invasion by the Yankees.
To the Northerners, it was "sold" as a war to keep the union together.
Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at June 22, 2015 04:26 PM (659DL)
It was about slavery to *some* people, but for most people it wasn't. Most of the soldiers fighting were poor and uneducated and did not own slaves or care about it. That's not how the war was "sold" to Southerners (the vast majority of whom did not own slaves). It was "sold" as an invasion by the Yankees.
To the Northerners, it was "sold" as a war to keep the union together.
Posted by: mynewhandle at June 22, 2015 04:32 PM (AkOaV)
312
>>
It's not about the flag, or slavery or what the flag may or may not
stand for. it is about us using another terrible tragedy to make all of
you who oppose us do what we want and like it.
It's about destroying more of our American heritage and culture. Yes, we had a civil war --- and survived it. Why are these people trying so damn hard to re-start it?
It's all part of the same movement to remove crosses and the 10 commandments from the public square, marginalizing the founding fathers as "old, white men" - the systematic destruction of our cultural heritage and the source of the values that have made this country great.
It's not about the flag, or slavery or what the flag may or may not
stand for. it is about us using another terrible tragedy to make all of
you who oppose us do what we want and like it.
It's about destroying more of our American heritage and culture. Yes, we had a civil war --- and survived it. Why are these people trying so damn hard to re-start it?
It's all part of the same movement to remove crosses and the 10 commandments from the public square, marginalizing the founding fathers as "old, white men" - the systematic destruction of our cultural heritage and the source of the values that have made this country great.
Posted by: Lizzy at June 22, 2015 04:32 PM (k2QA3)
313
There are a lot of symbolic items displayed all over this country that offend me. I'm not calling for them to be banned, because people I disagree with have the right to free speech.
Too bad that same courtesy is not extended to everyone.
There are a lot of symbolic items displayed all over this country that offend me. I'm not calling for them to be banned, because people I disagree with have the right to free speech.
Too bad that same courtesy is not extended to everyone.
Posted by: Vashta Nerada at June 22, 2015 04:33 PM (20Zla)
314
@24: "The Stars and Bars won't ever escape its bad connotations"
Except the flag in question isn't the Stars and Bars....so, you know, good argument.
Except the flag in question isn't the Stars and Bars....so, you know, good argument.
Posted by: Fa Cube Itches at June 22, 2015 04:33 PM (amQXf)
315
Probably already said but if the flag was the cause, why wasn't it a black guy shooting up a white church?
Posted by: Golfman at June 22, 2015 04:34 PM (48QDY)
Posted by: MathMajor at June 22, 2015 04:34 PM (DL2i+)
317
295 The war was about a lot of things, one of them being slavery. Issues of slavery (and largely the status of free states vs. slave states in the expanding West) were very important in triggering the war. But it was not a single-issue event.
The Emancipation Proclamation made it all about slavery.
Posted by: Moderate Salami at June 22, 2015 04:30 PM (/Ho8c)
Looking deeper into the history of the war, I always saw the EP as an attempt by the union (who was losing or stalemated at the time) of causing rebellions in the confederate states aimed against the women and children of those at the front.
The Emancipation Proclamation made it all about slavery.
Posted by: Moderate Salami at June 22, 2015 04:30 PM (/Ho8c)
Looking deeper into the history of the war, I always saw the EP as an attempt by the union (who was losing or stalemated at the time) of causing rebellions in the confederate states aimed against the women and children of those at the front.
Posted by: Jollyroger at June 22, 2015 04:34 PM (t06LC)
318
So, okay. It's a symbol of racism/slavery. But the fact that it is WE who get tarred with that brush is what galls the living shit out of me. Even more galling is that no one on our side is setting the record straight once and for fucking all.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at June 22, 2015 04:25 PM (St6BJ)
Agreed. This is, as they say, a teachable moment.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at June 22, 2015 04:25 PM (St6BJ)
Agreed. This is, as they say, a teachable moment.
Posted by: chique d'afrique (the artist formerly known as african chick) at June 22, 2015 04:34 PM (shFKH)
319
>>> I don't give a flying feck about the flag, but why do I feel that we just lost a rather large battle.
because you're viewing this as zero-sum. you think because the left advanced an idea which itself was not a bad idea, and that idea won, you have lost.
while the left pushed this issue, it's hardly absurd to say the confederate flag just may symbolize jim crow and segregation (and slavery).
Again, 2+2=4 will be true whether the left argues it to be so or not.
because you're viewing this as zero-sum. you think because the left advanced an idea which itself was not a bad idea, and that idea won, you have lost.
while the left pushed this issue, it's hardly absurd to say the confederate flag just may symbolize jim crow and segregation (and slavery).
Again, 2+2=4 will be true whether the left argues it to be so or not.
Posted by: ace at June 22, 2015 04:34 PM (bhepQ)
320
Renumber the Dukes of Hazard? Boy can You imagine that show or most of Mel Brooks movies being made now?
Posted by: donna at June 22, 2015 04:34 PM (Bn6aD)
321
>>I don't give a flying feck about the flag, but why do I feel that we just lost a rather large battle.
I suppose that's one way to look at it. I see it as saying while I completely disagree that most people view this as a racist flag but rather a flag of southern pride, I can see how some people, particularly black people, might find it offensive and it shouldn't be endorsed by the state.
One less weapon for the left and hopefully a small olive branch to black Americans who might view this as evidence that we aren't at all what the left claims we are.
I suppose that's one way to look at it. I see it as saying while I completely disagree that most people view this as a racist flag but rather a flag of southern pride, I can see how some people, particularly black people, might find it offensive and it shouldn't be endorsed by the state.
One less weapon for the left and hopefully a small olive branch to black Americans who might view this as evidence that we aren't at all what the left claims we are.
Posted by: JackStraw at June 22, 2015 04:34 PM (g1DWB)
322
18 My father made a prediction about ten years ago that we were getting to the point where Robert E. Lee would be universally considered a traitor to the United States instead of a patriot to Virginia.
Posted by: David at June 22, 2015 03:57 PM (UtRhK)
Too late, it's already happened. Just read the comments section in any NY Times article on the flag controversy (if you can stand to without barfing). "They were traitors and deserved to be hanged!! Eleventy!!!
Posted by: David at June 22, 2015 03:57 PM (UtRhK)
Too late, it's already happened. Just read the comments section in any NY Times article on the flag controversy (if you can stand to without barfing). "They were traitors and deserved to be hanged!! Eleventy!!!
Posted by: Hurricane LaFawnduh at June 22, 2015 04:35 PM (laMCB)
323
All this talk of symbolism, why do I think it's all a big head fake.
Why not use the issue to "move beyond symbolism into the reality, which is that the so-called 'progressive' approach to poverty has destroyed the black family and enslaved them to the federal government"
Why not use the issue to "move beyond symbolism into the reality, which is that the so-called 'progressive' approach to poverty has destroyed the black family and enslaved them to the federal government"
Posted by: Feh at June 22, 2015 04:35 PM (izITN)
324
Mere contradiction isn't freedom of mind.
Posted by: ace at June 22, 2015 04:26 PM (bhepQ)
It can be: https://goo.gl/ZmQFxw
Posted by: ace at June 22, 2015 04:26 PM (bhepQ)
It can be: https://goo.gl/ZmQFxw
Posted by: physics geek at June 22, 2015 04:35 PM (MT22W)
325
Good riddance. Keep that flag on the cemeteries and museums.
Posted by: Draki at June 22, 2015 04:35 PM (7sZ4u)
326
They say black, you say white.
Posted by: ace at June 22, 2015 04:26 PM (bhepQ)
no, man; not true. They say sh*t, I say Smart Stuff. Big difference...
Posted by: ace at June 22, 2015 04:26 PM (bhepQ)
no, man; not true. They say sh*t, I say Smart Stuff. Big difference...
Posted by: James Joyce, dead Irishman at June 22, 2015 04:35 PM (8CdUx)
Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at June 22, 2015 04:35 PM (659DL)
Posted by: donna at June 22, 2015 04:35 PM (Bn6aD)
329
Sitting here think about anything the Confederacy did or made that made this country better.
And sitting.
And thinking.
Yeah. Nothing.
The Confederate flag is just like the Rainbow flag: Flown about some cause I could give a shit about by people who have done absolutely nothing to impress me.
And sitting.
And thinking.
Yeah. Nothing.
The Confederate flag is just like the Rainbow flag: Flown about some cause I could give a shit about by people who have done absolutely nothing to impress me.
Posted by: Adirondack Patriot at June 22, 2015 04:36 PM (8BTx6)
330
I'd hit Nikki Haley so hard, whomever pulled me off would be crowned King of England.
Posted by: CSMBigBird at June 22, 2015 04:36 PM (jsWA8)
331
It is incrementalism, nothing more. An endless march through the institutions. That is the root of my opposition.
Posted by: maddogg at June 22, 2015 04:36 PM (xWW96)
332
304 I told Roscoe to lock up those Duke boys since their car is a micro-aggression.
Posted by: Boss Hogg at June 22, 2015 04:31 PM (OD2ni)
--Heh, on Saturday TV Land ran the Dukes of Hazzard episode where the mob capos were meeting in Hazzard County Jail.
Posted by: Boss Hogg at June 22, 2015 04:31 PM (OD2ni)
--Heh, on Saturday TV Land ran the Dukes of Hazzard episode where the mob capos were meeting in Hazzard County Jail.
Posted by: logprof at June 22, 2015 04:36 PM (Ejd3m)
Posted by: Ken in NH at June 22, 2015 04:36 PM (MqjGP)
334
And the reason is rather similar: the left uses it as a reminder of the
Civil War and Franco, and if you fly the flag, you are a fascist who
accepts the atrocities committed by Franco
No mention of the atrocities committed by the Republicans, who in fact triggered the war by their atrocities against Catholic clergy, among others, and who perpetrated atrocities left, right, front, and center, including against their own allies (e.g., POUM). In fact, many historians think the Republicans lost the Spanish Civil War because, on Stalin's orders, the Reds killed off their Socialist and Anarchist allies.
But those weren't atrocity-actrocities, apparently.
Civil War and Franco, and if you fly the flag, you are a fascist who
accepts the atrocities committed by Franco
No mention of the atrocities committed by the Republicans, who in fact triggered the war by their atrocities against Catholic clergy, among others, and who perpetrated atrocities left, right, front, and center, including against their own allies (e.g., POUM). In fact, many historians think the Republicans lost the Spanish Civil War because, on Stalin's orders, the Reds killed off their Socialist and Anarchist allies.
But those weren't atrocity-actrocities, apparently.
Posted by: Jay Guevara at June 22, 2015 04:36 PM (oKE6c)
335
Actually, no. It was patterned after the Spanish cross of Burgundy, which was used in southern Alabama in colonial times.
Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here)
Possibly, and certainly provides plausible deniability. Wikipedia (which is never wrong, heh) suggests both.
Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here)
Possibly, and certainly provides plausible deniability. Wikipedia (which is never wrong, heh) suggests both.
Posted by: Moderate Salami at June 22, 2015 04:36 PM (/Ho8c)
336
Posted by: Fa Cube Itches at June 22, 2015 04:28 PM (amQXf)
Okay, well, like I said -- I'm not arguing for banning the confederate flag or whatever.
And if you don't give a shit about hurting peoples feelings --which is fine -- then feel free to fly the confederate flag.
But you need to realize that people are genuinely offended and that large numbers of people are going to think you're an asshole. Which again, is fine.
As for the state of SC? I don't know. Up to them I guess. Personally, I wouldn't want to fly a flag that pissed off x% of the population for no reason. Generally, if you're going to make a "bold" statement like that, there should be some overarching goal behind it.
Okay, well, like I said -- I'm not arguing for banning the confederate flag or whatever.
And if you don't give a shit about hurting peoples feelings --which is fine -- then feel free to fly the confederate flag.
But you need to realize that people are genuinely offended and that large numbers of people are going to think you're an asshole. Which again, is fine.
As for the state of SC? I don't know. Up to them I guess. Personally, I wouldn't want to fly a flag that pissed off x% of the population for no reason. Generally, if you're going to make a "bold" statement like that, there should be some overarching goal behind it.
Posted by: mynewhandle at June 22, 2015 04:36 PM (AkOaV)
337
This is an "easy" battle to fight for the sjw. Supporters of the Confederate flag can always say it's about heritage and they may be right, but the sjw appeal to emotions and point at the flag as racist. The easy way to shut up a person and the easy way to say they solved mass killings and racism by taking down a flag. What they forget is that evil exists and the only way to beat evil is for the good to fight.....and that is hard.
Posted by: RGallegos at June 22, 2015 04:37 PM (RgkJ6)
338
Mere contradiction isn't freedom of mind. If you're automatically contradicting whatever the left says, the left still dominates and controls your thinking. They say black, you say white.
Posted by: ace
-----------------------------
Nonetheless, as an instinctive reaction, an immediate jaundiced perspective regarding any proposal/opinion by the Left is justified, if only statistically.
Given a centimeter, they take a meter. See: Title IX
Posted by: ace
-----------------------------
Nonetheless, as an instinctive reaction, an immediate jaundiced perspective regarding any proposal/opinion by the Left is justified, if only statistically.
Given a centimeter, they take a meter. See: Title IX
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at June 22, 2015 04:37 PM (9mTYi)
339
Interestingly, I also saw Jew Subversion open for Joy Division back in 87, too.
Posted by: Garrett at June 22, 2015 04:37 PM (G3txG)
340
The problem is most blacks never felt offended until they were told they needed to feel offended.
Posted by: Cruzinator at June 22, 2015 04:10 PM (yCkeu)
oh god. oh god.
please don't say this. it's embarrassing.
[...]
Posted by: ace at June 22, 2015 04:31 PM (bhepQ)
It's the least racist and most charitable interpretation of the situation. Take this:
https://youtu.be/fmO-ziHU_D8?t=36s
I'd rather argue that they were taught wrong, rather than the alternative that they are incapable of learning to do right.
Posted by: Cruzinator at June 22, 2015 04:10 PM (yCkeu)
oh god. oh god.
please don't say this. it's embarrassing.
[...]
Posted by: ace at June 22, 2015 04:31 PM (bhepQ)
It's the least racist and most charitable interpretation of the situation. Take this:
https://youtu.be/fmO-ziHU_D8?t=36s
I'd rather argue that they were taught wrong, rather than the alternative that they are incapable of learning to do right.
Posted by: ConservativeMonster at June 22, 2015 04:37 PM (0NdlF)
341
The Gadsden flag says "Fuck You" without being a flag created by Democrats for a struggle to suppress natural human rights. I suggest we use that.
Posted by: RD Walker at June 22, 2015 04:37 PM (ImpgP)
342
I was told there'd be no assholes on the blog.
Posted by: MathMajor at June 22, 2015 04:34 PM (DL2i+)
New here?
Posted by: MathMajor at June 22, 2015 04:34 PM (DL2i+)
New here?
Posted by: physics geek at June 22, 2015 04:37 PM (MT22W)
343
Tolerate the tolerable. If flying the Confederate Flag over a Confederate War Dead Memorial isn't tolerable, then fuck all y'alls.
Posted by: Grump928(c) Native Texan and Alabama Alum, Twice Insufferable at June 22, 2015 04:37 PM (evdj2)
344
330 I'd hit Nikki Haley so hard, whomever pulled me off would be crowned King of England.
Posted by: CSMBigBird at June 22, 2015 04:36 PM (jsWA
My nominee for thread winner.
Posted by: CSMBigBird at June 22, 2015 04:36 PM (jsWA
My nominee for thread winner.
Posted by: 1bulwetweft at June 22, 2015 04:37 PM (nqiq9)
345
"Except the flag in question isn't the Stars and Bars....so, you know, good argument."
Ok, mea culpa. The battle flag.
Ok, mea culpa. The battle flag.
Posted by: Feh at June 22, 2015 04:37 PM (izITN)
346
>>>There are a lot of symbolic items displayed all over this country that offend me. I'm not calling for them to be banned, because people I disagree with have the right to free speech.
this is not a free speech issue. What flags we fly on state grounds is not an individual free speech thing -- it's a corporate, as-part-of-a-group decision, and yes, political popularity enters into it.
Would you object to putting margaret sanger on the $10 bill? Would you think you were "stifling free speech" by doing so?
I don't think you would. I think you'd say that as the picture on the bill represents you, you should naturally get a vote on it.
Speech we do together as a group is in fact subject to majority-rules rules.
I can draw godzilla being strafed by biplanes but whether or not we make THAT South Carolina's new flag is a political decision to be made by the people. It is no infringement on my speech if they reject my picture.
Tho seriously, it's pretty good. Godzilla is bleeding but you can tell he's just getting ready to Hulk out.
this is not a free speech issue. What flags we fly on state grounds is not an individual free speech thing -- it's a corporate, as-part-of-a-group decision, and yes, political popularity enters into it.
Would you object to putting margaret sanger on the $10 bill? Would you think you were "stifling free speech" by doing so?
I don't think you would. I think you'd say that as the picture on the bill represents you, you should naturally get a vote on it.
Speech we do together as a group is in fact subject to majority-rules rules.
I can draw godzilla being strafed by biplanes but whether or not we make THAT South Carolina's new flag is a political decision to be made by the people. It is no infringement on my speech if they reject my picture.
Tho seriously, it's pretty good. Godzilla is bleeding but you can tell he's just getting ready to Hulk out.
Posted by: ace at June 22, 2015 04:37 PM (bhepQ)
347
I propose letting S.C. fly that flag three-fifths of a year over their federal buildings.
Posted by: James Wilson at June 22, 2015 04:38 PM (OXzvH)
348
I propose a deal: the South gets rid of the Confederate battle flag, and the shirtlifters get rid of the rainbow flag.
I'd be cool with that. Deal?
I'd be cool with that. Deal?
Posted by: Jay Guevara at June 22, 2015 04:38 PM (oKE6c)
349
"Too late, it's already happened. Just read the comments section in any NY Times article on the flag controversy (if you can stand to without barfing). "They were traitors and deserved to be hanged!! Eleventy!!!"
Read the diary of Mary Chestnut. Virginia caught some guy selling beef to the Union after secession. They hanged him.
Read the diary of Mary Chestnut. Virginia caught some guy selling beef to the Union after secession. They hanged him.
Posted by: Chris Balsz at June 22, 2015 04:38 PM (8rRE+)
350
333 Here's how Texas solves the problem:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six_flags_over_Texas
Posted by: Ken in NH at June 22, 2015 04:36 PM (MqjGP)
We're sneaky like that.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six_flags_over_Texas
Posted by: Ken in NH at June 22, 2015 04:36 PM (MqjGP)
We're sneaky like that.
Posted by: Jollyroger at June 22, 2015 04:38 PM (t06LC)
351
Mere contradiction isn't freedom of mind. If you're automatically contradicting whatever the left says, the left still dominates and controls your thinking.
But neither is castrated agreement either Ace. As I pointed out before, the war was the English Civil War Part II. We are in year seven of the Postmodern Puritan Civil War. And yes, they, unlike the South, want to control the government.
Sometimes you have to offend the craft beer hipsters and just say Fuck You loudly.
But neither is castrated agreement either Ace. As I pointed out before, the war was the English Civil War Part II. We are in year seven of the Postmodern Puritan Civil War. And yes, they, unlike the South, want to control the government.
Sometimes you have to offend the craft beer hipsters and just say Fuck You loudly.
Posted by: Super Creepy Eric Hoteham at June 22, 2015 04:38 PM (oDCMR)
352
"Sure, you can keep explaining to people that this symbol does not symbol
what most would take it to symbolize... but it does seem that at some
point the most efficient course of action is to stop displaying the
symbol, or to adopt a new one."
It is truly ignorance of history and disrespect for those who fought in the war to remove this in an attempt to rewrite history.
What's next? Are the winners of this debate going to demand the removal of the state flag - known as the Palmetto Flag - from sight because it represents the "racism" and was adopted by the state after succession? Remove the monuments to the Confederate Soldiers memorials? Destroy the Hunley because its crew were Confederate soldiers and "racist people" as some idiot was quoted saying.
Do all of you believe that this flag will just disappear from sight or use by racist idiots? It won't - in fact, it will probably make it worse.
A sad day for freedom of speech and for history.
what most would take it to symbolize... but it does seem that at some
point the most efficient course of action is to stop displaying the
symbol, or to adopt a new one."
It is truly ignorance of history and disrespect for those who fought in the war to remove this in an attempt to rewrite history.
What's next? Are the winners of this debate going to demand the removal of the state flag - known as the Palmetto Flag - from sight because it represents the "racism" and was adopted by the state after succession? Remove the monuments to the Confederate Soldiers memorials? Destroy the Hunley because its crew were Confederate soldiers and "racist people" as some idiot was quoted saying.
Do all of you believe that this flag will just disappear from sight or use by racist idiots? It won't - in fact, it will probably make it worse.
A sad day for freedom of speech and for history.
Posted by: Teafran at June 22, 2015 04:38 PM (6awKZ)
353
"One less weapon for the left and hopefully a small olive branch to black Americans who might view this as evidence that we aren't at all what the left claims we are."
That's sort of my thinking as well. I think the left thought that the right would go down swinging on this, but the politicians in SC mostly just shrugged and said "you know, I sort of agree the flag should go. Let's do this as a symbol to show the black community here in our state that we are standing with them against this horrible racist attack."
And I think there is a strong argument there because the state is very much hurting and doing something as a symbol of unity does counteract the stupid racist's attempt to start a race war.
That's sort of my thinking as well. I think the left thought that the right would go down swinging on this, but the politicians in SC mostly just shrugged and said "you know, I sort of agree the flag should go. Let's do this as a symbol to show the black community here in our state that we are standing with them against this horrible racist attack."
And I think there is a strong argument there because the state is very much hurting and doing something as a symbol of unity does counteract the stupid racist's attempt to start a race war.
Posted by: Lauren at June 22, 2015 04:38 PM (MYCIw)
354
When ghey couples start demanding Confederate flags on their wedding cakes from black Baptist bakers, will the universe break?
Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at June 22, 2015 04:38 PM (8ZskC)
355
Sacred honor compels me to say I'd hit Nikki like Godzilla smashing a biplane.
Kaiju fandom compels me to correct you with King Kong or jet plane.
Kaiju fandom compels me to correct you with King Kong or jet plane.
Posted by: DaveA at June 22, 2015 04:38 PM (DL2i+)
356
So, how do they decide if the flag should come down or not? Have a vote in the Statehouse?
Posted by: FenelonSpoke at June 22, 2015 04:38 PM (OSs/l)
357
I don't fly the battle flag. Never have, but I'll be damned to see it banned by a bunch of cocksucking Che loving neo-communists. You would never see them piss and moan about the hammer and sickle.
Posted by: maddogg at June 22, 2015 04:39 PM (xWW96)
358
AGAIN, we are letting the left set the agenda. Sigh
Posted by: Nevergiveup at June 22, 2015 04:39 PM (wq4B0)
359
AGAIN, we are letting the left set the agenda. Sigh
Posted by: Nevergiveup at June 22, 2015 04:39 PM (wq4B0)
360
One less weapon for the left and hopefully a small olive branch to black
Americans who might view this as evidence that we aren't at all what
the left claims we are.
___
Tonight on CNN, Nikki Haley agrees to finally remove pro-slavery flag from the state house after it triggered yet another mass murder. We'll ask the tough questions like why she and other Republicans are so racist and why they hate black people.
Americans who might view this as evidence that we aren't at all what
the left claims we are.
___
Tonight on CNN, Nikki Haley agrees to finally remove pro-slavery flag from the state house after it triggered yet another mass murder. We'll ask the tough questions like why she and other Republicans are so racist and why they hate black people.
Posted by: This is CNN at June 22, 2015 04:39 PM (78TbK)
361
>>>Nonetheless, as an instinctive reaction, an immediate jaundiced perspective regarding any proposal/opinion by the Left is justified, if only statistically.
...
it's a statistically useful rule-of-thumb but it still wouldn't really be free thought, and it would still not be better than freely thinking.
...
it's a statistically useful rule-of-thumb but it still wouldn't really be free thought, and it would still not be better than freely thinking.
Posted by: ace at June 22, 2015 04:39 PM (bhepQ)
362
Sitting here think about anything the Confederacy did or made that made this country better.
And sitting.
And thinking.
Yeah. Nothing.
I guess you are OK with New York BBQ, then?
And sitting.
And thinking.
Yeah. Nothing.
I guess you are OK with New York BBQ, then?
Posted by: Daniel Simpson Day at June 22, 2015 04:39 PM (aA2hG)
363
Nine people lost their lives because they were giving CHRIST-LIKE love to that animal, who in the end rejected that act of love and massacred them. They demonstrated Jesus Christ's unconditional love. My hometown actually showed that love in its response through the weekend...with love, but more importantly, the love of Christ.
Yet, what happens? We immediately forget what is truly important and what will definitely heal our souls and relations: Jesus Christ. Instead, we focus on an issue that is so inconsequential.
The bodies aren't even buried, and the f**king leftists immediately use their blood as means to fulfill another agenda. The damn flag was not even being talked about before this incident, and what do we do...we immediately acquiesce to their agenda.
Taking the flag down would not have stopped that animal from shooting those sweet people. It's all perception. For show. For appearances. Because some twit on MoveOn.org started a petition.
These people constantly use crises for political purposes, we let them do it. Every. Single. F**ING. Time.
Yet, what happens? We immediately forget what is truly important and what will definitely heal our souls and relations: Jesus Christ. Instead, we focus on an issue that is so inconsequential.
The bodies aren't even buried, and the f**king leftists immediately use their blood as means to fulfill another agenda. The damn flag was not even being talked about before this incident, and what do we do...we immediately acquiesce to their agenda.
Taking the flag down would not have stopped that animal from shooting those sweet people. It's all perception. For show. For appearances. Because some twit on MoveOn.org started a petition.
These people constantly use crises for political purposes, we let them do it. Every. Single. F**ING. Time.
Posted by: ICBMMan at June 22, 2015 04:40 PM (OysV1)
364
However, there are those with good motives, too --and you're not arguing with them, because it's easier to dismiss those with the Worst Motives.
-----
Until those with good motives stop standing with those of bad, they can also go fuck themselves, as they are supporting my enemies
-----
Until those with good motives stop standing with those of bad, they can also go fuck themselves, as they are supporting my enemies
Posted by: gman at June 22, 2015 04:40 PM (nPdsm)
365
I can't believe Ace thinks dinosaurs and biplanes existed at the same time. Godzilla flew a warp drive spacecraft given to him by aliens so that he coud vist the Pyramids.
Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at June 22, 2015 04:40 PM (659DL)
366
The Emancipation Proclamation made it all about slavery.
Posted by: Moderate Salami
The Fireeaters and their influence made it a fight over slavery before the war started.
Posted by: Moderate Salami
The Fireeaters and their influence made it a fight over slavery before the war started.
Posted by: weft cut-loop at June 22, 2015 04:40 PM (KoT6c)
Posted by: Feh at June 22, 2015 04:40 PM (izITN)
368
Oh Joy obama is giving the Charleston eulogy...
Posted by: donna at June 22, 2015 04:40 PM (Bn6aD)
369
Posted by: ConservativeMonster at June 22, 2015 04:37 PM (0NdlF)
When I lived in VA, there was an old black guy who used to march up and down mainstreet dressed in a full confederate uniform carrying a huge flag pole with a confederate flag on it.
Not sure if that's relevant or not, but I always found it... to go against the narrative I guess.
When I lived in VA, there was an old black guy who used to march up and down mainstreet dressed in a full confederate uniform carrying a huge flag pole with a confederate flag on it.
Not sure if that's relevant or not, but I always found it... to go against the narrative I guess.
Posted by: mynewhandle at June 22, 2015 04:40 PM (AkOaV)
370
I guess you are OK with New York BBQ, then?
Posted by: Daniel Simpson Day
.............
Compared to that mustardy crap they serve in SC, probably yes!
Posted by: Daniel Simpson Day
.............
Compared to that mustardy crap they serve in SC, probably yes!
Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at June 22, 2015 04:41 PM (so+oy)
371
I have the perfect solution.
Let's just rename the Civil War the "War of Northern Aggression", and then immediately take down all the Confederate flags.
Everyone can agree to that can't they?
Let's just rename the Civil War the "War of Northern Aggression", and then immediately take down all the Confederate flags.
Everyone can agree to that can't they?
Posted by: Sharkman at June 22, 2015 04:41 PM (OxZ6W)
372
The big reveal for blacks is this: After the Confederate Flag is taken down, you will realize that you are still sitting in a steaming pile of crap that has nothing to do with a flag and everything to do with your commitment to perpetual victimology.
Just like you realized that electing a black president didn't change a goddamned thing unless you get off your asses and get a job.
Still waiting on that one.
Just like you realized that electing a black president didn't change a goddamned thing unless you get off your asses and get a job.
Still waiting on that one.
Posted by: Adirondack Patriot at June 22, 2015 04:41 PM (4AVeu)
373
359 AGAIN, we are letting the left set the agenda. Sigh
Posted by: Nevergiveup at June 22, 2015 04:39 PM (wq4B0)
Like the NRA is letting the left set the agenda on gun control? They oppose them wherever they can. And they win mostly.
Posted by: Nevergiveup at June 22, 2015 04:39 PM (wq4B0)
Like the NRA is letting the left set the agenda on gun control? They oppose them wherever they can. And they win mostly.
Posted by: maddogg at June 22, 2015 04:41 PM (xWW96)
374
Would you object to putting margaret sanger on the $10 bill? Would you think you were "stifling free speech" by doing so?
--
My understanding is that the Treasury Secretary is planning something along those lines as we speak, and I will have no say in the matter.
Would you object to putting margaret sanger on the $10 bill? Would you think you were "stifling free speech" by doing so?
--
My understanding is that the Treasury Secretary is planning something along those lines as we speak, and I will have no say in the matter.
Posted by: Vashta Nerada at June 22, 2015 04:41 PM (20Zla)
375
"The single star of the Texas flag is directly related conceptually to the Bonnie Blue Flag,"
Texas flag adopted in 1839.
Posted by: Ricardo Kill
Yes. That does not affect the concept of the single star representing the sovereignty of the State as separate from its place in the Union.
Texas flag adopted in 1839.
Posted by: Ricardo Kill
Yes. That does not affect the concept of the single star representing the sovereignty of the State as separate from its place in the Union.
Posted by: Moderate Salami at June 22, 2015 04:42 PM (/Ho8c)
376
"Too late, it's already happened. Just read the comments section in any NY Times article on the flag controversy (if you can stand to without barfing). "They were traitors and deserved to be hanged!! Eleventy!!!"
So NYT readers DO recognize the concept of treason, and propose the same punishment I would.
Let's start with Bergdahl then.
So NYT readers DO recognize the concept of treason, and propose the same punishment I would.
Let's start with Bergdahl then.
Posted by: Jay Guevara at June 22, 2015 04:42 PM (oKE6c)
377
Once thing you can be sure of; the Democrats are all wishing these murders would have taken place next summer.
Posted by: Grump928(c) Native Texan and Alabama Alum, Twice Insufferable at June 22, 2015 04:42 PM (evdj2)
378
it's a statistically useful rule-of-thumb but it still wouldn't really be free thought, and it would still not be better than freely thinking.
Having freely thought about the issue, the answer is still No.
Screw them. Again, there's a certain religion that prominently displays an instrument of torture and death as its symbol.
Having freely thought about the issue, the answer is still No.
Screw them. Again, there's a certain religion that prominently displays an instrument of torture and death as its symbol.
Posted by: ConservativeMonster at June 22, 2015 04:42 PM (0NdlF)
379
The only power that flag has, is with the left.
Congrats. Now, you allow them to turn it into a club.
Congrats. Now, you allow them to turn it into a club.
Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Suntanning in Bizzaro World at June 22, 2015 04:42 PM (CFcIt)
380
39
In the immediate aftermath of mass shootings, there is always a demand to "do something."
I
don't really have an opinion on the Confederate battle flag (though I
will come up with one soon and cut out your spleen if it differs from
yours), but this is the part that bugs me.
There's always a
pre-existing demand for change that hasn't had enough impetus to come
into effect. The people who have been pushing -- unsuccessfully -- for
that change seize on tragedy to say, "you see? You must implement our
change now!"
It is both intellectually and emotionally dishonest.
This just about perfectly encapsulates my thoughts as well. I object to the removal of the flag because of the reason it's being done: To further poison American culture by bowing down to the racist demands of identity politics.
In the immediate aftermath of mass shootings, there is always a demand to "do something."
I
don't really have an opinion on the Confederate battle flag (though I
will come up with one soon and cut out your spleen if it differs from
yours), but this is the part that bugs me.
There's always a
pre-existing demand for change that hasn't had enough impetus to come
into effect. The people who have been pushing -- unsuccessfully -- for
that change seize on tragedy to say, "you see? You must implement our
change now!"
It is both intellectually and emotionally dishonest.
This just about perfectly encapsulates my thoughts as well. I object to the removal of the flag because of the reason it's being done: To further poison American culture by bowing down to the racist demands of identity politics.
Posted by: Weirddave at June 22, 2015 04:43 PM (WvS3w)
381
Compared to that mustardy crap they serve in SC, probably yes!
Piggy Park Sauce; pickup a Patriot Pack today!
Piggy Park Sauce; pickup a Patriot Pack today!
Posted by: Grump928(c) Native Texan and Alabama Alum, Twice Insufferable at June 22, 2015 04:43 PM (evdj2)
382
Oh Joy obama is giving the Charleston eulogy...
Wait; He took time to stop golfing and fundraise to show up?
Wait; He took time to stop golfing and fundraise to show up?
Posted by: FenelonSpoke at June 22, 2015 04:43 PM (OSs/l)
383
"because you're viewing this as zero-sum. you think because the left advanced an idea which itself was not a bad idea, and that idea won, you have lost. "
True, but righteous or not, it just adds another "straw on the camel's back" in the ceaseless, relentless advance of the left.
True, but righteous or not, it just adds another "straw on the camel's back" in the ceaseless, relentless advance of the left.
Posted by: jjod at June 22, 2015 04:43 PM (0r7PZ)
384
My understanding is that the Treasury Secretary is planning something
along those lines as we speak, and I will have no say in the matter.
***
Pretty much true of everything Leviathan does nowadays.
along those lines as we speak, and I will have no say in the matter.
***
Pretty much true of everything Leviathan does nowadays.
Posted by: 18-1 at June 22, 2015 04:44 PM (78TbK)
385
Liberals don't care about either flag. Maybe they should care about one of them before asking to take down another.
Posted by: MrX at June 22, 2015 04:44 PM (if9v9)
386
I'm recounting a story I read in an editorial several years ago here.
Yankees are notorious for moving South and then writing letters to the local papers telling the locals how backward we are. Totally serious.
A local responded to a particularly nasty letter regarding his female, widowed ancestor towards the end of the war.
She was alone on her poor family farm with three small children, when some of Sherman's Best arrived to take her lone cow and a few chickens, leaving her and her children nothing.
As she screamed at them, one of the soldiers shot her dead. And they left her body lying on the porch with her three, terrified kids.
Stories like these are not rare or unusual.
So, I just had to get out this rant for all the people who constantly make nasty comments about the south and southerners on this blog.
I'm in a horrible, sad mood today, so to the rest of you, forgive me.
Yankees are notorious for moving South and then writing letters to the local papers telling the locals how backward we are. Totally serious.
A local responded to a particularly nasty letter regarding his female, widowed ancestor towards the end of the war.
She was alone on her poor family farm with three small children, when some of Sherman's Best arrived to take her lone cow and a few chickens, leaving her and her children nothing.
As she screamed at them, one of the soldiers shot her dead. And they left her body lying on the porch with her three, terrified kids.
Stories like these are not rare or unusual.
So, I just had to get out this rant for all the people who constantly make nasty comments about the south and southerners on this blog.
I'm in a horrible, sad mood today, so to the rest of you, forgive me.
Posted by: Jane D'oh at June 22, 2015 04:44 PM (FsuaD)
387
382 Oh Joy obama is giving the Charleston eulogy...
Wait; He took time to stop golfing and fundraise to show up?
He couldn't miss an opportunity like this...
Wait; He took time to stop golfing and fundraise to show up?
He couldn't miss an opportunity like this...
Posted by: donna at June 22, 2015 04:44 PM (Bn6aD)
388
"Well, damn.
Maryland Governor Larry Hogan has advanced lymphoma."
Prayers for him. Seems like a good guy. As a conservative living in Maryland, I don't often vote for the winning candidate.
"Well, damn.
Maryland Governor Larry Hogan has advanced lymphoma."
Prayers for him. Seems like a good guy. As a conservative living in Maryland, I don't often vote for the winning candidate.
Posted by: Benji Carver at June 22, 2015 04:44 PM (OD2ni)
389
It was ALWAYS about Slavery.
Posted by: 3/5 Compromise at June 22, 2015 04:44 PM (G3txG)
390
Go ahead ... remove the flags.
Then, Ace, spare me your shock when the Left moves on to their next demand.
Because that's the point. You can fight them over the flag, or fight them over their next Slightly Bigger Demand, or you can give them Everything They Want.
And no amount of Newfound Racial Sensitivity will placate them.
Then, Ace, spare me your shock when the Left moves on to their next demand.
Because that's the point. You can fight them over the flag, or fight them over their next Slightly Bigger Demand, or you can give them Everything They Want.
And no amount of Newfound Racial Sensitivity will placate them.
Posted by: ScoggDog at June 22, 2015 04:44 PM (l1wsb)
391
symbols of hate
and remembering that the Hindus use a reverse swastika in their religion to symbolize peace and good luck...
Could you please provide Big Brother's doubleungoodsymbol list of the symbols of hate?
For easy reference?
and remembering that the Hindus use a reverse swastika in their religion to symbolize peace and good luck...
Could you please provide Big Brother's doubleungoodsymbol list of the symbols of hate?
For easy reference?
Posted by: some random meathead - if you're not drinking, you're not paying attention at June 22, 2015 04:44 PM (GxHdH)
392
While we're at it let's get rid of Old Glory, I'm sure the Democrats will be offended on the Amerind's behalf and given our distressing habit of military victory under it we need humbled....
Do I get to be offended at their "Africa" flag Ace?
Do I get to be offended at their "Africa" flag Ace?
Posted by: The Smiling Bandit@sven10077 at June 22, 2015 04:44 PM (/4AZU)
393
We've really lost all common sense.
Drunk Americans
Toby Keith
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iyWUTGEdLuE
We ain't East, we ain't West
We ain't left, we ain't right
We ain't black, we ain't white
We just came here to drink
We're all mud flap suburbans
All ball caps and turbans
All prom queens and strippers
Where the whole kitchen sink and then here,
We're the same, everyone knows your name
We just raise up our glass
We don't give a rat's ass
If you're a democrat or republican
We're happy to be here and that you can see
We're just all drunk Americans
Drunk Americans
Toby Keith
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iyWUTGEdLuE
We ain't East, we ain't West
We ain't left, we ain't right
We ain't black, we ain't white
We just came here to drink
We're all mud flap suburbans
All ball caps and turbans
All prom queens and strippers
Where the whole kitchen sink and then here,
We're the same, everyone knows your name
We just raise up our glass
We don't give a rat's ass
If you're a democrat or republican
We're happy to be here and that you can see
We're just all drunk Americans
Posted by: artisanal 'ette at June 22, 2015 04:45 PM (qCMvj)
394
I'm in a horrible, sad mood today, so to the rest of you, forgive me.
Posted by: Jane D'oh
Thank you for sharing, Jane.
Posted by: Jane D'oh
Thank you for sharing, Jane.
Posted by: Moderate Salami at June 22, 2015 04:45 PM (/Ho8c)
395
I'm in a horrible, sad mood today, so to the rest of you, forgive me.
Posted by: Jane D'oh at June 22, 2015 04:44 PM (FsuaD)
Sorry...
Posted by: Jane D'oh at June 22, 2015 04:44 PM (FsuaD)
Sorry...
Posted by: donna at June 22, 2015 04:45 PM (Bn6aD)
396
@362
Besides the whole slavery part, you realize most conservatives agree about 85-90% with the south's cause. Look around. The south was a proponent of states rights and the 10th amendment. The south thought that they were keeping true to the constitution as written, and it was the north that was unfairly imposing tariffs and expanding the power of the executive that was the problem.
As to slavery, it was the 1860s. Its hard for me as a product of my time to look to what a decade or two was the status quo worldwide and pass judgment.
Besides the whole slavery part, you realize most conservatives agree about 85-90% with the south's cause. Look around. The south was a proponent of states rights and the 10th amendment. The south thought that they were keeping true to the constitution as written, and it was the north that was unfairly imposing tariffs and expanding the power of the executive that was the problem.
As to slavery, it was the 1860s. Its hard for me as a product of my time to look to what a decade or two was the status quo worldwide and pass judgment.
Posted by: Jollyroger at June 22, 2015 04:45 PM (t06LC)
397
Posted by: Sharkman at June 22, 2015 04:41 PM (OxZ6W)
Well, you can call the War of Southern Secession whatever you want, but it doesn't change anything.
Still lost.
Well, you can call the War of Southern Secession whatever you want, but it doesn't change anything.
Still lost.
Posted by: mynewhandle at June 22, 2015 04:45 PM (AkOaV)
Posted by: Cruzinator at June 22, 2015 04:45 PM (yCkeu)
399
Consider this, I suspect that given simultaneous questions regarding the banning of display of the Confederate Flag, and the banning of the ownership of pistols, the results would be the same for both.
"First they came for the flags, but I wasn't a Southerner, so I didn't care."
"The flag is incendiary!" they will shout. Maybe...., but it really is just a flag, and should enjoy free speech protection.
At this rate, the mere ownership of such a flag will become a crime.
"First they came for the flags, but I wasn't a Southerner, so I didn't care."
"The flag is incendiary!" they will shout. Maybe...., but it really is just a flag, and should enjoy free speech protection.
At this rate, the mere ownership of such a flag will become a crime.
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at June 22, 2015 04:46 PM (9mTYi)
400
That's sort of my thinking as well. I think the left thought that the right would go down swinging on this, but the politicians in SC mostly just shrugged and said "you know, I sort of agree the flag should go. Let's do this as a symbol to show the black community here in our state that we are standing with them against this horrible racist attack."
And I think there is a strong argument there because the state is very much hurting and doing something as a symbol of unity does counteract the stupid racist's attempt to start a race war.
Posted by: Lauren at June 22, 2015 04:38 PM (MYCIw)
While my natural inclination is not to give in to people demanding the flag be taken down for purely cynical and political reasons, and not because they actually care about black people, I see your point.
However, I despise the fact that the Confederate flag is being claimed to have contributed to the atrocity in that church. The only culpable person in that atrocity is the evil murderer. No one else, no inanimate object, either.
And I think there is a strong argument there because the state is very much hurting and doing something as a symbol of unity does counteract the stupid racist's attempt to start a race war.
Posted by: Lauren at June 22, 2015 04:38 PM (MYCIw)
While my natural inclination is not to give in to people demanding the flag be taken down for purely cynical and political reasons, and not because they actually care about black people, I see your point.
However, I despise the fact that the Confederate flag is being claimed to have contributed to the atrocity in that church. The only culpable person in that atrocity is the evil murderer. No one else, no inanimate object, either.
Posted by: chique d'afrique (the artist formerly known as african chick) at June 22, 2015 04:46 PM (shFKH)
401
Posted by: Jollyroger at June 22, 2015 04:45 PM (t06LC)
Oops!
Not sure how helpful that little comment is.
Oops!
Not sure how helpful that little comment is.
Posted by: mynewhandle at June 22, 2015 04:46 PM (AkOaV)
402
I don't give a flying feck about the flag, but why do I feel that we just lost a rather large battle.
Posted by: jjod at June 22, 2015 04:30 PM (0r7PZ)
------------------------------------------
Because we just lost another big battle. Not only freedom of speech, but freedom of association.
Posted by: jjod at June 22, 2015 04:30 PM (0r7PZ)
------------------------------------------
Because we just lost another big battle. Not only freedom of speech, but freedom of association.
Posted by: Soona at June 22, 2015 04:46 PM (P25Hh)
403
Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Suntanning in Bizzaro World at June 22, 2015 04:42 PM (CFcIt)
Nice.
But what becomes the next club?
Nice.
But what becomes the next club?
Posted by: Golfman at June 22, 2015 04:46 PM (48QDY)
404
Nikki Haley? I'd hit that like a Boll Weevil on a cotton ball.
Posted by: Weasel at June 22, 2015 04:46 PM (e3bId)
405
We need one of two things:
1 . ) a symbol of rebellion that won't get decried as evil;
2 . ) backbones.
1 . ) a symbol of rebellion that won't get decried as evil;
2 . ) backbones.
Posted by: Brother Cavil, down with Eph 6:12 at June 22, 2015 04:46 PM (2l5vw)
406
Stories like these are not rare or unusual.
***
War is a terrible thing. Part of the problem with the WoT was the left tried to pretend that does not have to be the case.
Though I would also point to Mill's extension of this thought...
http://www.quotationspage.com/quote/27169.html
***
War is a terrible thing. Part of the problem with the WoT was the left tried to pretend that does not have to be the case.
Though I would also point to Mill's extension of this thought...
http://www.quotationspage.com/quote/27169.html
Posted by: 18-1 at June 22, 2015 04:46 PM (78TbK)
407
Nikki Haley announced that she was calling for the removal of the Confederate flag from the statehouse grounds.
*pthgh*
Capitulating RINO, gotta capitulate...
*pthgh*
Capitulating RINO, gotta capitulate...
Posted by: some random meathead - if you're not drinking, you're not paying attention at June 22, 2015 04:46 PM (GxHdH)
408
Yeah sorry I'm not going to be walking around worrying about someone else's imputations or conjectures or some bullshit they've just decided to spout today.
Fuck 'em. Life's too short to deal with pissants.
Fuck 'em. Life's too short to deal with pissants.
Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at June 22, 2015 04:47 PM (oFCZn)
409
She was alone on her poor family farm with three small children, when
some of Sherman's Best arrived to take her lone cow and a few chickens,
leaving her and her children nothing.
As she screamed at them, one of the soldiers shot her dead. And they
left her body lying on the porch with her three, terrified kids.
White privilege.
some of Sherman's Best arrived to take her lone cow and a few chickens,
leaving her and her children nothing.
As she screamed at them, one of the soldiers shot her dead. And they
left her body lying on the porch with her three, terrified kids.
White privilege.
Posted by: HR braucht ein Bier at June 22, 2015 04:47 PM (ZKzrr)
Posted by: Chris Balsz at June 22, 2015 04:47 PM (8rRE+)
411
Nikki Haley announced that she was calling for the removal of the Confederate flag from the statehouse grounds.
She will be missed.
She will be missed.
Posted by: Grump928(c) Native Texan and Alabama Alum, Twice Insufferable at June 22, 2015 04:47 PM (evdj2)
412
I don't give a flying feck about the flag, but why do I feel that we just lost a rather large battle.
Why is it I feel like every time folks react to some evil f*** like this, they're making the evil f***'s point for them?
Why is it I feel like every time folks react to some evil f*** like this, they're making the evil f***'s point for them?
Posted by: Brother Cavil, down with Eph 6:12 at June 22, 2015 04:47 PM (2l5vw)
413
Question: has anyone peeked inside the fetid fever swamps to see the collective reaction to Gov. Hogan's cancer? If history is any guide, there will be cheering, high-fiving and calls for a quick-and very painful-death. I simply cannot bring myself to do so today.
Posted by: physics geek at June 22, 2015 04:48 PM (MT22W)
414
The Alabama flag (and Florida's) of the St. Andrew's cross represents the Scot-Irish heritage of the entire region.
Even the British Union Jack has the cross incorporated into it.
Even the British Union Jack has the cross incorporated into it.
Posted by: Ken at June 22, 2015 04:48 PM (LXJ1e)
415
362 Sitting here think about anything the Confederacy did or made that made this country better.
And sitting.
And thinking.
Yeah. Nothing.
I guess you are OK with New York BBQ, then?
Posted by: Daniel Simpson Day at June 22, 2015 04:39 PM (aA2hG)
I took that post to be a condemnation of the government that existed in the South from 1861-65. Not a condemnation of everything Southern.
The South has made huge contributions to American culture and only the most benighted bigots (like our idiot trolls) would be stupid enough to deny that.
And sitting.
And thinking.
Yeah. Nothing.
I guess you are OK with New York BBQ, then?
Posted by: Daniel Simpson Day at June 22, 2015 04:39 PM (aA2hG)
I took that post to be a condemnation of the government that existed in the South from 1861-65. Not a condemnation of everything Southern.
The South has made huge contributions to American culture and only the most benighted bigots (like our idiot trolls) would be stupid enough to deny that.
Posted by: Donna V. (sans ampersands) at June 22, 2015 04:48 PM (u0lmX)
Posted by: ConservativeMonster at June 22, 2015 04:48 PM (0NdlF)
417
Because we just lost another big battle. Not only freedom of speech, but freedom of association.
***
It is amazing...a racialist murders a group of Christians...and we are arguing about removing an American symbol that had nothing to do with the crime...because...
***
It is amazing...a racialist murders a group of Christians...and we are arguing about removing an American symbol that had nothing to do with the crime...because...
Posted by: 18-1 at June 22, 2015 04:48 PM (78TbK)
418
Next will come MY flag--the one I served under.
Be extremely interested to see the reaction from here about that.
Next will come MY flag--the one I served under.
Be extremely interested to see the reaction from here about that.
Posted by: irongrampa at June 22, 2015 04:48 PM (jeCnD)
419
393 - What happens when you don't get your free shit?
Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Suntanning in Bizzaro World at June 22, 2015 04:48 PM (CFcIt)
420
I think every state should forced to fly the rainbow flag. Social justice, bitches. That's what the powers that be in SC should do.
Posted by: Chavez the Hugo at June 22, 2015 04:48 PM (ucDmr)
421
The issue I see is this--the Left says the flag inspired this monster to murder people. So they want the flag taken down.
NOW the removal of the flag will probably inspire some other monster to perform a similar crime.
What will the Left say then?
The true issue--mental illness--will be ignored by the Left because they can't win with it.
NOW the removal of the flag will probably inspire some other monster to perform a similar crime.
What will the Left say then?
The true issue--mental illness--will be ignored by the Left because they can't win with it.
Posted by: Null at June 22, 2015 04:49 PM (xjpRj)
422
Don't Tread On Me!
Posted by: Count de Monet at June 22, 2015 04:49 PM (JO9+V)
423
I'll give it 'till Labor Day. My catholic church will have to marry John and Bill.
The left has a fever, and will mow down everything that stands against them.
The left has a fever, and will mow down everything that stands against them.
Posted by: the littl shyning man at June 22, 2015 04:49 PM (U6f54)
424
368 Oh Joy obama is giving the Charleston eulogy...
Posted by: donna at June 22, 2015 04:40 PM (Bn6aD)
--It *always* has to be about him, even when he didn't know a soul involved.
Posted by: donna at June 22, 2015 04:40 PM (Bn6aD)
--It *always* has to be about him, even when he didn't know a soul involved.
Posted by: logprof at June 22, 2015 04:49 PM (DgSC4)
425
" The only culpable person in that atrocity is the evil murderer. No one else, no inanimate object, either"
Well, that of course goes to the whole liberal mindset that rejects the notion than anyone is actually responsible for his own actions.
Well, that of course goes to the whole liberal mindset that rejects the notion than anyone is actually responsible for his own actions.
Posted by: Lauren at June 22, 2015 04:49 PM (MYCIw)
426
how long before there's a run on flags?
Posted by: VA GOP Sucks at June 22, 2015 04:49 PM (brtPU)
427
The true issue--mental illness--will be ignored by the Left because they can't win with it.
The true issue is not mental illness, either, but it's an actual factor, as opposed to the CSA flag.
The true issue is not mental illness, either, but it's an actual factor, as opposed to the CSA flag.
Posted by: ConservativeMonster at June 22, 2015 04:50 PM (0NdlF)
428
She will be missed.
Posted by: Grump928(c) Native Texan and Alabama Alum, Twice Insufferable at June 22, 2015 04:47 PM (evdj2)
-------------------------------------
Yup. She folded. Just like a cheap Obama campaign flag.
Posted by: Grump928(c) Native Texan and Alabama Alum, Twice Insufferable at June 22, 2015 04:47 PM (evdj2)
-------------------------------------
Yup. She folded. Just like a cheap Obama campaign flag.
Posted by: Soona at June 22, 2015 04:50 PM (P25Hh)
429
Leave it to the Left to respond to Christian maturity with a childish materialist assault aimed at YT. Is there anyway we could inter Obama in Lenin's tomb? A waxy Obama should be viewed for the ages as a warning to future generations.
Posted by: Super Creepy Eric Hoteham at June 22, 2015 04:50 PM (oDCMR)
430
No matter how this is resolved, I think it should be resolved ... not now.
I agree that buying the premise that "confederate battle flag kills 9 people in black church, republicans finally agree to remove it" is not the right move.
I agree that buying the premise that "confederate battle flag kills 9 people in black church, republicans finally agree to remove it" is not the right move.
Posted by: mynewhandle at June 22, 2015 04:50 PM (AkOaV)
431
"It is amazing...a racialist murders a group of Christians...and we are arguing about removing an American symbol that had nothing to do with the crime...because..."
1. It had something to do with the crime. The yahoo endorses the symbol as a symbol of racial hatred.
2. It's a flag for a heritage many Americans regard as evil.
1. It had something to do with the crime. The yahoo endorses the symbol as a symbol of racial hatred.
2. It's a flag for a heritage many Americans regard as evil.
Posted by: Chris Balsz at June 22, 2015 04:50 PM (8rRE+)
432
Ace is right about the "Fuck You" symbolism, at least for some Southerners.
I'd at that at one time, it was plausible for at least younger white Southerners to claim that they had no consciousness of the Confederate Battle Flag as an offensive symbol. For Southerners of my generation (born in the 70s), who grew up after segregation and civil rights had largely been settled, but before the flag had become universally vilified as a symbol of "hate," we grew up seeing the flag as a harmless emblem of our region and couldn't figure out why non-Southerners made such a big deal about it. (This is why the Clintons could get away with using it back in 1992, and why the Duke Boys had it on the roof of their car.)
I no longer hold this view myself, and certainly younger Southerners can't make this sort of claim, but there was a time when this was a defensible position for Southerners of a certain age.
I'd at that at one time, it was plausible for at least younger white Southerners to claim that they had no consciousness of the Confederate Battle Flag as an offensive symbol. For Southerners of my generation (born in the 70s), who grew up after segregation and civil rights had largely been settled, but before the flag had become universally vilified as a symbol of "hate," we grew up seeing the flag as a harmless emblem of our region and couldn't figure out why non-Southerners made such a big deal about it. (This is why the Clintons could get away with using it back in 1992, and why the Duke Boys had it on the roof of their car.)
I no longer hold this view myself, and certainly younger Southerners can't make this sort of claim, but there was a time when this was a defensible position for Southerners of a certain age.
Posted by: Ex-liberal at June 22, 2015 04:50 PM (R1mDg)
433
Flags come down because nuts are crazy?
It's up to the folks in SC to decide, but I urge they do nothing.
It's up to the folks in SC to decide, but I urge they do nothing.
Posted by: eman at June 22, 2015 04:50 PM (+/4Vy)
434
413 Question: has anyone peeked inside the fetid fever swamps to see the collective reaction to Gov. Hogan's cancer? If history is any guide, there will be cheering, high-fiving and calls for a quick-and very painful-death. I simply cannot bring myself to do so today.
Posted by: physics geek at June 22, 2015 04:48 PM (MT22W)
Why would they change now?
Posted by: physics geek at June 22, 2015 04:48 PM (MT22W)
Why would they change now?
Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Suntanning in Bizzaro World at June 22, 2015 04:51 PM (CFcIt)
Posted by: ConservativeMonster at June 22, 2015 04:51 PM (0NdlF)
436
She will be missed.
Posted by: Grump928
........
Ha! The one main reason she did it was to keep her hopes alive for a VP spot! Missed? Hardly.
Posted by: Grump928
........
Ha! The one main reason she did it was to keep her hopes alive for a VP spot! Missed? Hardly.
Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at June 22, 2015 04:51 PM (so+oy)
437
The issue I see is this--the Left says the flag inspired this monster to murder people. So they want the flag taken down.
***
If there was an opposition party, a member of it could make the argument that it is racialism of the type promoted by Sharpton that led to this murder.
Either people are people as I believe, or people are inherently racial tribes as the Left and Mr Roof believe.
If you want fewer Roofs, or Sharptons, stop advancing their beliefs.
***
If there was an opposition party, a member of it could make the argument that it is racialism of the type promoted by Sharpton that led to this murder.
Either people are people as I believe, or people are inherently racial tribes as the Left and Mr Roof believe.
If you want fewer Roofs, or Sharptons, stop advancing their beliefs.
Posted by: 18-1 at June 22, 2015 04:51 PM (78TbK)
438
If I may suggest an alternate Fuck You without the civil war reference...
Stop flying the 50 star American flag.
Only fly the thirteen star flag.
Stop flying the 50 star American flag.
Only fly the thirteen star flag.
Posted by: Methos at June 22, 2015 04:51 PM (ZbV+0)
439
People, we are talking about the South Carolina of today. You know they only REALLY care about three things:
1. South Carolina Gamecocks football.
2. Golf at Myrtle Beach.
3. The Carolina Country Music Festival.
1. South Carolina Gamecocks football.
2. Golf at Myrtle Beach.
3. The Carolina Country Music Festival.
Posted by: Adirondack Patriot at June 22, 2015 04:51 PM (4AVeu)
Posted by: physics geek at June 22, 2015 04:51 PM (MT22W)
441
410: When will our long national nightmare end? This fuckin guy is incoherent all the time. Put him in an echo chamber underground and let him ramble.
Posted by: Chavez the Hugo at June 22, 2015 04:51 PM (ucDmr)
Posted by: rickb223 at June 22, 2015 04:52 PM (tUTpw)
443
1. It had something to do with the crime. The yahoo endorses the symbol as a symbol of racial hatred.
2. It's a flag for a heritage many Americans regard as evil.
Posted by: Chris Balsz at June 22, 2015 04:50 PM (8rRE+)
That's unfair.
It had NOTHING to do with this crime. NOTHING. The kid also wore a Golds Gym shirt, no one is calling for the banning of Golds Gyms.
And evil? Maybe to some. I think "offensive" is a more accurate word though.
2. It's a flag for a heritage many Americans regard as evil.
Posted by: Chris Balsz at June 22, 2015 04:50 PM (8rRE+)
That's unfair.
It had NOTHING to do with this crime. NOTHING. The kid also wore a Golds Gym shirt, no one is calling for the banning of Golds Gyms.
And evil? Maybe to some. I think "offensive" is a more accurate word though.
Posted by: mynewhandle at June 22, 2015 04:52 PM (AkOaV)
444
It had something to do with the crime.
***
So if the flag hadn't been there he would not have murdered a group of Christians?
***
So if the flag hadn't been there he would not have murdered a group of Christians?
Posted by: 18-1 at June 22, 2015 04:52 PM (78TbK)
445
I don't give a damn about what people think the Confederate Flag stands for. It's a symbol. This country is way too busy looking for excuses to ban words, ideas and symbols. Let it stand, and let people defend/oppose it, but essentially banning a symbol is anathema to me.
Posted by: Lincolntf at June 22, 2015 04:52 PM (tvQwu)
446
Oh Joy obama is giving the Charleston eulogy...
Posted by: donna at June 22, 2015 04:40 PM (Bn6aD)
How amazing it would be for them to turn him down.
Posted by: donna at June 22, 2015 04:40 PM (Bn6aD)
How amazing it would be for them to turn him down.
Posted by: artisanal 'ette at June 22, 2015 04:52 PM (qCMvj)
447
@431
I don't recall ever seeing the confederate flag brought into this incident.
Rhodesia and South Africa, yes. Maybe I missed it.
I don't recall ever seeing the confederate flag brought into this incident.
Rhodesia and South Africa, yes. Maybe I missed it.
Posted by: Jollyroger at June 22, 2015 04:52 PM (t06LC)
448
Why is Obama even giving a eulogy? He didn't even know any of these people, and can we just stop pretending Obama is a Christian?
Posted by: FenelonSpoke at June 22, 2015 04:52 PM (OSs/l)
449
1. It had something to do with the crime. The yahoo endorses the symbol as a symbol of racial hatred.
2. It's a flag for a heritage many Americans regard as evil.
Posted by: Chris Balsz
Are you seriously arguing that had the CSA flag been removed 10 years ago that the scumbag would have not gone on a murder spree?
2. It's a flag for a heritage many Americans regard as evil.
Posted by: Chris Balsz
Are you seriously arguing that had the CSA flag been removed 10 years ago that the scumbag would have not gone on a murder spree?
Posted by: weft cut-loop at June 22, 2015 04:53 PM (KoT6c)
450
can anyone really argue the flag is not plausibly taken to be, among other things, a symbol of slavery, segregation, and Jim Crow?
Can anyone really claim that a black person who feels denigrated by that feeling is "just making things up"?
At some point, this argument can only end one way. The way it must end -- even for people making a good argument for the flag -- is this way: "Well, and if some black people are still bothered by the flag, fuck 'em."
I just don't see how argument is not always implicit, to some extent, in these Confederate flag battles. No one can seriously claim that black people are just making this up, that it's CRAZY to associate the confederate battle flag with slavery, segregation, and Jim Crow.
So I don't see any other ending to this argument, after it's conceded that yes, this flag could understandably have some very uncomfortable associations for some black folks, and that, end of day, the argument has to end: "Well, fuck 'em then."
That's not to say anyone intends these messages. But you can't deny they are transmitted here -- intended or not.
So the argument has to end with "Well, fuck 'em if they can't toughen up."
Can anyone really claim that a black person who feels denigrated by that feeling is "just making things up"?
At some point, this argument can only end one way. The way it must end -- even for people making a good argument for the flag -- is this way: "Well, and if some black people are still bothered by the flag, fuck 'em."
I just don't see how argument is not always implicit, to some extent, in these Confederate flag battles. No one can seriously claim that black people are just making this up, that it's CRAZY to associate the confederate battle flag with slavery, segregation, and Jim Crow.
So I don't see any other ending to this argument, after it's conceded that yes, this flag could understandably have some very uncomfortable associations for some black folks, and that, end of day, the argument has to end: "Well, fuck 'em then."
That's not to say anyone intends these messages. But you can't deny they are transmitted here -- intended or not.
So the argument has to end with "Well, fuck 'em if they can't toughen up."
Posted by: ace at June 22, 2015 04:53 PM (bhepQ)
451
We can still fly the freak flag, right?
Posted by: San Francisco at June 22, 2015 04:53 PM (Vf5rR)
Posted by: mynewhandle at June 22, 2015 04:53 PM (AkOaV)
453
I'd at that at one time, it was plausible for at least younger white Southerners to claim that they had no consciousness of the Confederate Battle Flag as an offensive symbol.
If offensive symbols are not tolerated by our society, then there will be no Free Speech or liberty.
"This isn't the hill to die on" - how many times have we heard it?
If offensive symbols are not tolerated by our society, then there will be no Free Speech or liberty.
"This isn't the hill to die on" - how many times have we heard it?
Posted by: ConservativeMonster at June 22, 2015 04:53 PM (0NdlF)
454
how long before there's a run on flags?
Yep. This will do for Flag Companies what Barry's been doing for firearms manufacturers. I'm of a mind to own a Battle Flag now, something I've never done before in consideration of it's Kluxer associations in this area.
Yep. This will do for Flag Companies what Barry's been doing for firearms manufacturers. I'm of a mind to own a Battle Flag now, something I've never done before in consideration of it's Kluxer associations in this area.
Posted by: Grump928(c) Native Texan and Alabama Alum, Twice Insufferable at June 22, 2015 04:53 PM (evdj2)
455
Are they getting rid of the Confederate Battle Axe too? I know she comes from Chicago, but she still claims to be from Arkansas and has that stupid fake accent.
Posted by: Roy at June 22, 2015 04:53 PM (fWLrt)
456
Come And Take It!
Posted by: Count de Monet at June 22, 2015 04:53 PM (JO9+V)
457
Boss, if Nikki Haley visits Hazzard County, what do you say we arrest her unless she promises to wait tables at the Boar's Nest?
Posted by: Sheriff Roscoe P. Coltrane at June 22, 2015 04:53 PM (DgSC4)
Posted by: rickb223 at June 22, 2015 04:53 PM (tUTpw)
459
Stop flying the 50 star American flag.
Only fly the thirteen star flag.
The f*** would I want to enshrine only the ACELA corridor as "America"?
Only fly the thirteen star flag.
The f*** would I want to enshrine only the ACELA corridor as "America"?
Posted by: Brother Cavil, down with Eph 6:12 at June 22, 2015 04:54 PM (2l5vw)
460
It was ALWAYS about Slavery.
Posted by: 3/5 Compromise
There was always a schism there, yes, and slavery was a component. But the real issue was power. Why the 3/5 compromise? The Southern states were concerned about the balance of power with the more populous North.
And both North and South are tainted with the evil of slavery, which is something that bears remembering.
Posted by: 3/5 Compromise
There was always a schism there, yes, and slavery was a component. But the real issue was power. Why the 3/5 compromise? The Southern states were concerned about the balance of power with the more populous North.
And both North and South are tainted with the evil of slavery, which is something that bears remembering.
Posted by: Moderate Salami at June 22, 2015 04:54 PM (/Ho8c)
461
Can't have unofficial symbols on government property which offend. No Confederate Battle Flag, no Crucifix, etc, etc.
OK, fine. Then no Rainbow Flag, Obama Flag, etc, etc.
Especially no effing Packer Shit.
OK, fine. Then no Rainbow Flag, Obama Flag, etc, etc.
Especially no effing Packer Shit.
Posted by: muttering vikings fan at June 22, 2015 04:54 PM (+IuHY)
462
418 Irongrampa,
Shrug...the beautiful people mock our flag anyway....
Remember Lt. Worf's "all that for a fucking flag" bit in 08?
The country's gone...
Shrug...the beautiful people mock our flag anyway....
Remember Lt. Worf's "all that for a fucking flag" bit in 08?
The country's gone...
Posted by: The Smiling Bandit@sven10077 at June 22, 2015 04:54 PM (/4AZU)
463
It won't end with the South Carolina flag display. Once the appeasing act of removal goes forward, political correctness will make additional demands. Perhaps it will seek to topple monuments, perhaps it will demand other oaths of surrender to an American political mindset that's increasingly policed for uniformity, with dissent quashed with an ever-heavier hand.
Posted by: Doug Rink at June 22, 2015 04:54 PM (hJdYI)
464
Obama's March to the Tee thwarted by Crisis
Posted by: Garrett at June 22, 2015 04:54 PM (G3txG)
465
You know the US Flag caused Bill Ayers to bomb people. We need to take it down.
Posted by: Super Creepy Eric Hoteham at June 22, 2015 04:54 PM (oDCMR)
466
Democrats put that flag up and kept it up all these years. It time Republicans took it down.
The only reason the banner of a defeated rebellion was ever tolerated was to appease and buy off Southern Democrats in the late 19th and early 20th century. What started out as shameless political pandering got transformed into legend.
Learn about the Compromise of 1877. It's all there.
The only reason the banner of a defeated rebellion was ever tolerated was to appease and buy off Southern Democrats in the late 19th and early 20th century. What started out as shameless political pandering got transformed into legend.
Learn about the Compromise of 1877. It's all there.
Posted by: Marcus at June 22, 2015 04:55 PM (DQBHC)
467
>>>1. It had something to do with the crime. The yahoo endorses the symbol as a symbol of racial hatred.
i don't really agree with that. I don't think this had anything to do with the crime, but the crime gives the left an opportunity to exploit anew a winning issue for them.
i don't really agree with that. I don't think this had anything to do with the crime, but the crime gives the left an opportunity to exploit anew a winning issue for them.
Posted by: ace at June 22, 2015 04:55 PM (bhepQ)
468
Can anyone really claim that a black person who feels denigrated by that feeling is "just making things up"?
...
So the argument has to end with "Well, fuck 'em if they can't toughen up."
Fuck 'em, if they can't toughen up.
This society shall no longer be run on potentially offended feelings.
...
So the argument has to end with "Well, fuck 'em if they can't toughen up."
Fuck 'em, if they can't toughen up.
This society shall no longer be run on potentially offended feelings.
Posted by: ConservativeMonster at June 22, 2015 04:55 PM (0NdlF)
469
Posted by: ace at June 22, 2015 04:53 PM (bhepQ)
Well, I think it is what some people intend. To say "fuck people who are being overly sensitive and taking something in a different way from which I meant it".
Or maybe that is how some people intend it.
I don't know.
So while I usually fall on the side of "fuck people and their stupid insecurities and their imagined slights" I do feel like the confederate flag is a little different. Because it is totally legitimate for people -- northerners, blacks, republicans -- to be offended by the symbolism of that flag.
Well, I think it is what some people intend. To say "fuck people who are being overly sensitive and taking something in a different way from which I meant it".
Or maybe that is how some people intend it.
I don't know.
So while I usually fall on the side of "fuck people and their stupid insecurities and their imagined slights" I do feel like the confederate flag is a little different. Because it is totally legitimate for people -- northerners, blacks, republicans -- to be offended by the symbolism of that flag.
Posted by: mynewhandle at June 22, 2015 04:55 PM (AkOaV)
470
"Are you seriously arguing that had the CSA flag been removed 10 years ago that the scumbag would have not gone on a murder spree?"
When did I say that? Are you seriously arguing the fact this guy poses with the battle flag, the flag of Boer South Africa, and the flag of white Rhodesia is just random patterns?
When did I say that? Are you seriously arguing the fact this guy poses with the battle flag, the flag of Boer South Africa, and the flag of white Rhodesia is just random patterns?
Posted by: Chris Balsz at June 22, 2015 04:56 PM (8rRE+)
471
We need a protest that burns flags. Rainbow, Obama, Pali, the whole gamut.
When the f*** do we stop tiptoeing and start strutting?
When the f*** do we stop tiptoeing and start strutting?
Posted by: Brother Cavil, down with Eph 6:12 at June 22, 2015 04:56 PM (2l5vw)
472
Democrats put that flag up and kept it up all these years. It time Republicans took it down.
They did, 15 years ago.
They did, 15 years ago.
Posted by: Grump928(c) Native Texan and Alabama Alum, Twice Insufferable at June 22, 2015 04:56 PM (evdj2)
Posted by: HR braucht ein Bier at June 22, 2015 04:56 PM (ZKzrr)
474
Look I have no dog in this. The Flag does not mean anything to me.
But to hand the left a "victory" tastes bad in my mouth.
And the Flag did not cause this shooting. A crazy sick sick with a dysfuntional family did.
But to hand the left a "victory" tastes bad in my mouth.
And the Flag did not cause this shooting. A crazy sick sick with a dysfuntional family did.
Posted by: Nevergiveup at June 22, 2015 04:56 PM (wq4B0)
475
Sure love your neighbor. I agree. But where does this stop?
People today are TAUGHT to be offended by someone saying Merry Christmas or by flying that flag or saying him instead of him or her, for the political purpose of destroying traditional culture. (See Critical Theory thread.) The demands will escalate with this capitulation, not end.
Some hapless customer at Starbucks last December said Merry Christmas to the barista, who then felt obligated to show his liberal bona fides by scolding quite loudly, "I don't celebrate Christmas." I actually felt sorry for both of them.
People today are TAUGHT to be offended by someone saying Merry Christmas or by flying that flag or saying him instead of him or her, for the political purpose of destroying traditional culture. (See Critical Theory thread.) The demands will escalate with this capitulation, not end.
Some hapless customer at Starbucks last December said Merry Christmas to the barista, who then felt obligated to show his liberal bona fides by scolding quite loudly, "I don't celebrate Christmas." I actually felt sorry for both of them.
Posted by: pj at June 22, 2015 04:56 PM (cHuNI)
476
459 Stop flying the 50 star American flag.
Only fly the thirteen star flag.
The f*** would I want to enshrine only the ACELA corridor as "America"?
----------------------
Cuz Joe Biden and Merica.
Only fly the thirteen star flag.
The f*** would I want to enshrine only the ACELA corridor as "America"?
----------------------
Cuz Joe Biden and Merica.
Posted by: Super Creepy Eric Hoteham at June 22, 2015 04:56 PM (oDCMR)
477
The f*** would I want to enshrine only the ACELA corridor as "America"?
Do you live on the coast? If not, that's the point.
Do you live on the coast? If not, that's the point.
Posted by: Methos at June 22, 2015 04:56 PM (ZbV+0)
Posted by: rickb223 at June 22, 2015 04:56 PM (tUTpw)
479
423 I'll give it 'till Labor Day. My catholic church will have to marry John and Bill.
Was seriously considering a return to active status, a few months back.
File 13.
No fucking way.
Was seriously considering a return to active status, a few months back.
File 13.
No fucking way.
Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Suntanning in Bizzaro World at June 22, 2015 04:56 PM (CFcIt)
480
Or, Ace, he could be wearing the shirt precisely to express the fact that it could have and in fact once did have, other meanings, and was worn with honor. It would seem to me that anyone having a problem with that has problems of their own with seeing another point of view.
Posted by: Richard McEnroe at June 22, 2015 04:56 PM (Kucy5)
481
"It is amazing...a racialist murders a group of Christians...and we are
arguing about removing an American symbol that had nothing to do with
the crime...because..."
So if Roof was a "racialist", why did he have a bunch of black friends? And if he was a "racialist", why was his originally stipulated target the College of Charleston, which has about one-twentieth black enrollment?
Roof was an egocentric lunatic, an unknown invisible loser, pumped full of powerful psychoactive drugs, who wanted to commit a shocking high profile crime that would make him no longer invisible and unknown.
He craved becoming famous by doing something infamous. Claiming a race angle was simply a way to increase the infamy of the act.
arguing about removing an American symbol that had nothing to do with
the crime...because..."
So if Roof was a "racialist", why did he have a bunch of black friends? And if he was a "racialist", why was his originally stipulated target the College of Charleston, which has about one-twentieth black enrollment?
Roof was an egocentric lunatic, an unknown invisible loser, pumped full of powerful psychoactive drugs, who wanted to commit a shocking high profile crime that would make him no longer invisible and unknown.
He craved becoming famous by doing something infamous. Claiming a race angle was simply a way to increase the infamy of the act.
Posted by: torquewrench at June 22, 2015 04:56 PM (noWW6)
482
For all of you who are saying conservatives lost a battle today, I have one thing to say: FUCK YOU!
South Carolina decided to put that symbol of racism on their state grounds, not me. No one fucking asked me, cause I would voted NO.
Don't drag conservatives around the country into this as a battle for conservatism. It's not. It's SC's battle.. and it's a battle for the right to fly a flag that says a big "FUCK YOU" to the north, and has been appropriated by every redneck racist group south of the Mason-Dixon, and used for decades to drum up anti-black sentiment. South Carolina set themselves up for this shit. Ain't my battle.
South Carolina decided to put that symbol of racism on their state grounds, not me. No one fucking asked me, cause I would voted NO.
Don't drag conservatives around the country into this as a battle for conservatism. It's not. It's SC's battle.. and it's a battle for the right to fly a flag that says a big "FUCK YOU" to the north, and has been appropriated by every redneck racist group south of the Mason-Dixon, and used for decades to drum up anti-black sentiment. South Carolina set themselves up for this shit. Ain't my battle.
Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at June 22, 2015 04:57 PM (so+oy)
Posted by: The Smiling Bandit@sven10077 at June 22, 2015 04:57 PM (/4AZU)
484
At some point, this argument can only end one way. The way it must end
-- even for people making a good argument for the flag -- is this way:
"Well, and if some black people are still bothered by the flag, fuck
'em."
-Ace
And what is wrong with that argument?
This is America. We offend people here, as is our right.
Whether it is prudent or whether the offended should get the sand out of their vaginas is another matter. It need not end there, but it could.
-- even for people making a good argument for the flag -- is this way:
"Well, and if some black people are still bothered by the flag, fuck
'em."
-Ace
And what is wrong with that argument?
This is America. We offend people here, as is our right.
Whether it is prudent or whether the offended should get the sand out of their vaginas is another matter. It need not end there, but it could.
Posted by: flounder at June 22, 2015 04:57 PM (Vf5rR)
485
It won't end with the South Carolina flag display. Once the appeasing
act of removal goes forward, political correctness will make additional
demands. Perhaps it will seek to topple monuments, perhaps it will
demand other oaths of surrender to an American political mindset that's
increasingly policed for uniformity, with dissent quashed with an
ever-heavier hand.
This.
act of removal goes forward, political correctness will make additional
demands. Perhaps it will seek to topple monuments, perhaps it will
demand other oaths of surrender to an American political mindset that's
increasingly policed for uniformity, with dissent quashed with an
ever-heavier hand.
This.
Posted by: Count de Monet at June 22, 2015 04:57 PM (JO9+V)
486
Godzilla is bleeding
Again, Godzilla does not bleed, he may ooze green from damage or blow spit bubbles.
Again, Godzilla does not bleed, he may ooze green from damage or blow spit bubbles.
Posted by: DaveA at June 22, 2015 04:57 PM (DL2i+)
487
The true issue--mental illness--will be ignored by the Left because they can't win with it.
Posted by: Null at June 22, 2015 04:49 PM (xjpRj)
BINGO. Maybe Ace can set a trend and post about something relevant to the crime, instead of running to catch the Stars n Bars bandwagon.
Posted by: Null at June 22, 2015 04:49 PM (xjpRj)
BINGO. Maybe Ace can set a trend and post about something relevant to the crime, instead of running to catch the Stars n Bars bandwagon.
Posted by: Saltydonnie at June 22, 2015 04:57 PM (zBwYh)
488
>>>And both North and South are tainted with the evil of slavery, which is something that bears remembering.
...
this is true but on the matter of a war fought largely to end slavery, those of the north say "Good, slavery was a moral outrage," and the south still says, "It's complicated."
Yes the north was tainted by slavery -- but it's people in the south who are keeping their own tainting a going concern.
There just seems to be this weird refusal to just unambiguously say slavery was a bad and rotten thing.
...
this is true but on the matter of a war fought largely to end slavery, those of the north say "Good, slavery was a moral outrage," and the south still says, "It's complicated."
Yes the north was tainted by slavery -- but it's people in the south who are keeping their own tainting a going concern.
There just seems to be this weird refusal to just unambiguously say slavery was a bad and rotten thing.
Posted by: ace at June 22, 2015 04:57 PM (bhepQ)
489
I'm a southerner with northern ancestors, and southern, who fought on both sides.
I can see the point of changing state(s) flags with battle flags on them. But it's a little like PC run amok, isn't it? Changing the flag doesn't change the fact they were once states of the confederacy. Do we burn any remaining slave quarters, now? And expunge the parks on former battlefields of the Civil War? Shall we now dishonor the reb's who fought at Gettysburg?
Again, it doesn't break my heart to change the flags, but where does it stop and aren't there more productive things to do?
I can see the point of changing state(s) flags with battle flags on them. But it's a little like PC run amok, isn't it? Changing the flag doesn't change the fact they were once states of the confederacy. Do we burn any remaining slave quarters, now? And expunge the parks on former battlefields of the Civil War? Shall we now dishonor the reb's who fought at Gettysburg?
Again, it doesn't break my heart to change the flags, but where does it stop and aren't there more productive things to do?
Posted by: Sphynx at June 22, 2015 04:57 PM (OZmbA)
490
And this will make the Confederate Flag a bigger symbol to those who want to use for hate than before
Posted by: Nevergiveup at June 22, 2015 04:57 PM (wq4B0)
491
Crazy fucknut guns down 9 people, the obvious answer is to ban a flag. Welcome to Shitsville.
Posted by: Lincolntf at June 22, 2015 04:58 PM (tvQwu)
492
"Boss, if Nikki Haley visits Hazzard County, what do you say we arrest her unless she promises to wait tables at the Boar's Nest?"
Great idea. I'll be ordering a Nikki/Daisy sandwich.
"Boss, if Nikki Haley visits Hazzard County, what do you say we arrest her unless she promises to wait tables at the Boar's Nest?"
Great idea. I'll be ordering a Nikki/Daisy sandwich.
Posted by: Boss Hogg at June 22, 2015 04:58 PM (OD2ni)
493
Posted by: Moderate Salami at June 22, 2015 04:54 PM (/Ho8c)
It was about the apportionment of congressmen.
The South wanted slaves to be treated as "property" except when it came time to take a census. Then they wanted them counted as people so that they could get more representatives in Congress.
The north, obviously, disagreed. I think it was a representative from CT or RI who said, "okay, we'll count your slaves if we can also count our cows on the census. Slaves are chattel after all, no?" (being a wiseass, obviously)
Long story short... compromise!
It was about the apportionment of congressmen.
The South wanted slaves to be treated as "property" except when it came time to take a census. Then they wanted them counted as people so that they could get more representatives in Congress.
The north, obviously, disagreed. I think it was a representative from CT or RI who said, "okay, we'll count your slaves if we can also count our cows on the census. Slaves are chattel after all, no?" (being a wiseass, obviously)
Long story short... compromise!
Posted by: mynewhandle at June 22, 2015 04:58 PM (AkOaV)
494
@450
I'm from south Texas. I know a guy who's had a Gonzales flag sign (the "Come and Take It" with a cannon) on his property since the 80's.
He recently removed it this year due to some local pressure (I think from county commissioners) who said it was unwelcoming to Hispanic citizens and harbored bad connotations.
How far are we going to go down this road?
I'm from south Texas. I know a guy who's had a Gonzales flag sign (the "Come and Take It" with a cannon) on his property since the 80's.
He recently removed it this year due to some local pressure (I think from county commissioners) who said it was unwelcoming to Hispanic citizens and harbored bad connotations.
How far are we going to go down this road?
Posted by: Jollyroger at June 22, 2015 04:58 PM (t06LC)
495
South Carolina set themselves up for this shit. Ain't my battle.
When they came for South Carolina...
When they came for South Carolina...
Posted by: Brother Cavil, down with Eph 6:12 at June 22, 2015 04:58 PM (2l5vw)
496
I am working as a slave (part time) funding the free shit army. Can I be freed?
Posted by: Sphynx at June 22, 2015 04:58 PM (OZmbA)
497
460 It was ALWAYS about Slavery.
Posted by: 3/5 Compromise
There was always a schism there, yes, and slavery was a component. But the real issue was power. Why the 3/5 compromise? The Southern states were concerned about the balance of power with the more populous North.
,Posted by: Moderate Salami at June 22, 2015 04:54 PM (/Ho8c)
Change some geography and it is not much different that what is bitched about here everyday.
Posted by: 3/5 Compromise
There was always a schism there, yes, and slavery was a component. But the real issue was power. Why the 3/5 compromise? The Southern states were concerned about the balance of power with the more populous North.
,Posted by: Moderate Salami at June 22, 2015 04:54 PM (/Ho8c)
Change some geography and it is not much different that what is bitched about here everyday.
Posted by: Golfman at June 22, 2015 04:58 PM (48QDY)
498
Why is Obama even giving a eulogy? He didn't even know any of these people, and can we just stop pretending Obama is a Christian?
He considers the victims to be his tribe.
He considers the victims to be his tribe.
Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at June 22, 2015 04:59 PM (8ZskC)
499
How far are we going to go down this road?
Posted by: Jollyroger at June 22, 2015 04:58 PM (t06LC)
Until we fight back
Posted by: Jollyroger at June 22, 2015 04:58 PM (t06LC)
Until we fight back
Posted by: Nevergiveup at June 22, 2015 04:59 PM (wq4B0)
500
>>>.So if Roof was a "racialist", why did he have a bunch of black friends? And if he was a "racialist", why was his originally stipulated target the College of Charleston, which has about one-twentieth black enrollment?
...
jesus Lord, are we really arguing that the guy who murdered nine black people after telling them he had to stop them from raping white women and "taking over" the country wasn't a racialist?
To paraphrase Barack Obama: At some point, you've made enough denialism.
...
jesus Lord, are we really arguing that the guy who murdered nine black people after telling them he had to stop them from raping white women and "taking over" the country wasn't a racialist?
To paraphrase Barack Obama: At some point, you've made enough denialism.
Posted by: ace at June 22, 2015 04:59 PM (bhepQ)
501
I support the Union's side of the Civil War argument. And I still have no wish to banish the CSA flag, because:
1.) They lost
2.) The flag is not being flown for slavery
3.) The request for removal is dishonest
Removing it will do more to increase racism and support for slavery/segregation than leaving it be.
1.) They lost
2.) The flag is not being flown for slavery
3.) The request for removal is dishonest
Removing it will do more to increase racism and support for slavery/segregation than leaving it be.
Posted by: ConservativeMonster at June 22, 2015 04:59 PM (0NdlF)
502
One thing is for sure - nobody is talking about all our secure government employees personnel files being in ChiCom hands. Yeah, flags, race, and Obama throwing bombs.
Posted by: Super Creepy Eric Hoteham at June 22, 2015 04:59 PM (oDCMR)
503
He didn't even know any of these people, and can we just stop pretending Obama is a Christian?
He considers the victims to be his tribe.
Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at June 22, 2015 04:59 PM (8ZskC)
Well he contends he knew the Pastor
He considers the victims to be his tribe.
Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at June 22, 2015 04:59 PM (8ZskC)
Well he contends he knew the Pastor
Posted by: Nevergiveup at June 22, 2015 05:00 PM (wq4B0)
504
Jack Daniels is ours.
Tennessee.
Posted by: rickb223 at June 22, 2015 04:56 PM (tUTpw)
Trade Pappy Van Winkle's bourbon for Jack Daniels?
Done deal.
*snort*
Tennessee.
Posted by: rickb223 at June 22, 2015 04:56 PM (tUTpw)
Trade Pappy Van Winkle's bourbon for Jack Daniels?
Done deal.
*snort*
Posted by: Sean Bannion at June 22, 2015 05:00 PM (V+kmg)
505
"32
I'm with French. Sorry, but it's never enough. They always want more.
They'll demand the battle flag be removed because of the pain it causes,
but cannot imagine the problem with Christians being deeply offended by
the new Planned Parenthood clinic the Government helped fund down the
street in their town. Nah, they just gotta take it.
The flag
would lose it's power if it was ignored. It only has the FU power
because the race-baiters give it that power. Take down the flag and next
will be the demand that all Confederate statues and monuments be
removed.. just watch.
Posted by: Yip at June 22, 2015 03:59 PM (e7T6D)"
Instapundit linked an article in The Federalist that points out a number of issues that used to be liberal pieties but are now only believed by the right:
The Right to OffendThe Value of a Liberal EducationGovernment Should Stay Out of the BedroomLive and Let LiveSupport for IsraelSupport for Human RightsThe Dignity of the Working Man
The essence of the left is to always be offended by something. You cannot appease them because when they win they will then just pick something else to get all worked up about. In many cases they will just demand the reverse of the position that they fought so hard to achieve.
Listen, and understand. That left is out there. They can't be
bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or
remorse, or fear. And they absolutely will not stop, ever, until freedom is
dead.
I'm with French. Sorry, but it's never enough. They always want more.
They'll demand the battle flag be removed because of the pain it causes,
but cannot imagine the problem with Christians being deeply offended by
the new Planned Parenthood clinic the Government helped fund down the
street in their town. Nah, they just gotta take it.
The flag
would lose it's power if it was ignored. It only has the FU power
because the race-baiters give it that power. Take down the flag and next
will be the demand that all Confederate statues and monuments be
removed.. just watch.
Posted by: Yip at June 22, 2015 03:59 PM (e7T6D)"
Instapundit linked an article in The Federalist that points out a number of issues that used to be liberal pieties but are now only believed by the right:
The Right to OffendThe Value of a Liberal EducationGovernment Should Stay Out of the BedroomLive and Let LiveSupport for IsraelSupport for Human RightsThe Dignity of the Working Man
The essence of the left is to always be offended by something. You cannot appease them because when they win they will then just pick something else to get all worked up about. In many cases they will just demand the reverse of the position that they fought so hard to achieve.
Listen, and understand. That left is out there. They can't be
bargained with. They can't be reasoned with. They don't feel pity, or
remorse, or fear. And they absolutely will not stop, ever, until freedom is
dead.
Posted by: Obnoxious A-Hole at June 22, 2015 05:00 PM (QHgTq)
506
There just seems to be this weird refusal to just unambiguously say slavery was a bad and rotten thing.
Posted by: ace at June 22, 2015 04:57 PM (bhepQ)
I don't think that's it.
I think there are a lot of southerners who come from good families who never owned slaves who are sick of being called out for an institution that neither they nor their ancestors had anything to do with.
In other words, they're being defensive. They're great grandpappy fought in the war to protect the sovereignty of Georgia and he couldn't read or write and he worked alongside the slaves in the cotton fields, and blah blah blah.
Which I get.
Posted by: ace at June 22, 2015 04:57 PM (bhepQ)
I don't think that's it.
I think there are a lot of southerners who come from good families who never owned slaves who are sick of being called out for an institution that neither they nor their ancestors had anything to do with.
In other words, they're being defensive. They're great grandpappy fought in the war to protect the sovereignty of Georgia and he couldn't read or write and he worked alongside the slaves in the cotton fields, and blah blah blah.
Which I get.
Posted by: mynewhandle at June 22, 2015 05:00 PM (AkOaV)
507
The South Dems wanted slaves illegals to be treated as "property" nonpersons except when it came time to take a census. Then they wanted them counted as people so that they could get more representatives in Congress.
Only the names ever really change.
Only the names ever really change.
Posted by: Brother Cavil, down with Eph 6:12 at June 22, 2015 05:00 PM (2l5vw)
508
There just seems to be this weird refusal to just unambiguously say slavery was a bad and rotten thing.
Meh. It worked for us.
Meh. It worked for us.
Posted by: This Is Sparta!!!!!! at June 22, 2015 05:00 PM (8ZskC)
509
@488
Slavery was an evil thing and against the principles of this nation.
See some Lincoln quotes about it and you'll see that the war wasn't fully about ending slavery at all. A goal yes, kinda the way Operation Iraqi Freedom was about freeing the Iraqis.
Slavery was an evil thing and against the principles of this nation.
See some Lincoln quotes about it and you'll see that the war wasn't fully about ending slavery at all. A goal yes, kinda the way Operation Iraqi Freedom was about freeing the Iraqis.
Posted by: Jollyroger at June 22, 2015 05:00 PM (t06LC)
510
142
>>>I'm not going to rank slavery as practiced in the US against
the Holocaust, but try to imagine that American blacks may feel the
same way about it as Jews who were born after WWII might feel about the
Holocaust.
slavery was pretty bad. I don't think some people have fully grappled with how serious a moral crime this was.
And it wasn't even like old Roman style slavery, where slavery was a
legal state but did not, necessarily, indicate actual inferiority. (The
plethora of Greek slave tutors, etc...)
This was a dehumanizing slavery in which human beings were bred and disciplined like animals.
---------------------------------------------------------------
So Ace is practicing some nice moral relativism here. "It wasn't rape, rape" back in good ol' Rome.
Dude, you're just wrong.
>>>I'm not going to rank slavery as practiced in the US against
the Holocaust, but try to imagine that American blacks may feel the
same way about it as Jews who were born after WWII might feel about the
Holocaust.
slavery was pretty bad. I don't think some people have fully grappled with how serious a moral crime this was.
And it wasn't even like old Roman style slavery, where slavery was a
legal state but did not, necessarily, indicate actual inferiority. (The
plethora of Greek slave tutors, etc...)
This was a dehumanizing slavery in which human beings were bred and disciplined like animals.
---------------------------------------------------------------
So Ace is practicing some nice moral relativism here. "It wasn't rape, rape" back in good ol' Rome.
Dude, you're just wrong.
Posted by: Rob at June 22, 2015 05:00 PM (9rjbw)
511
I never had an urge to buy or display a Confederate flag. But I'm getting that urge because by and large the people demanding it be taken down are the sort of people who feel entitled to "control the narrative" and decide which speech is "hateful" or isn't...always to their own advantage. Giving them any victories is always a long-term bad idea.
Germany banned the swastika; it hasn't done away with fascism even in Germany, let alone throughout Europe. It has simply driven it underground and hardened it.
Germany banned the swastika; it hasn't done away with fascism even in Germany, let alone throughout Europe. It has simply driven it underground and hardened it.
Posted by: Richard McEnroe at June 22, 2015 05:01 PM (Kucy5)
512
How about this 3/5 Compromise? For every 3 Confederate Battle Flags taken down I, or an authorized designee, gets to punch in the nose 5 Che shirt wearing hipster doofuses.
Posted by: Count de Monet at June 22, 2015 05:01 PM (JO9+V)
Posted by: Aaron Rodgers at June 22, 2015 05:01 PM (OD2ni)
514
494 Jolly Roger,
Hopefully all the way to Balkanization and national divorce...
The goalposts will always keep moving.
Hopefully all the way to Balkanization and national divorce...
The goalposts will always keep moving.
Posted by: The Smiling Bandit@sven10077 at June 22, 2015 05:01 PM (/4AZU)
515
Long story short... compromise!
Posted by: mynewhandle
Exactly--balance of power in the Federal legislature was the core issue, manifested through legal contortions pertaining to slavery.
Posted by: mynewhandle
Exactly--balance of power in the Federal legislature was the core issue, manifested through legal contortions pertaining to slavery.
Posted by: Moderate Salami at June 22, 2015 05:01 PM (/Ho8c)
516
There just seems to be this weird refusal to just unambiguously say slavery was a bad and rotten thing.
It was a bad and rotten thing that fucking ended 150 years ago.
And folks are getting real sick and tired of continually being punished for the sins of the ancestors.
It was a bad and rotten thing that fucking ended 150 years ago.
And folks are getting real sick and tired of continually being punished for the sins of the ancestors.
Posted by: Brother Cavil, down with Eph 6:12 at June 22, 2015 05:01 PM (2l5vw)
517
Ace, when I got banned by Charles I became probably your #1 fan. I savor your take downs like a fine vintage Cabernet. I am at war with the left. I believe that they are trying to enslave mankind with the last remaining resources of the west. I hate them like our parents hated the Nazi's. You are right, and a much better writer than me. But- I hate them with the heat of a thousand suns.
Posted by: Jack Hagan at June 22, 2015 05:01 PM (U1iMh)
518
The very fact that we are agruing about the Flag, means the Left has won
Posted by: Nevergiveup at June 22, 2015 05:02 PM (wq4B0)
519
She was alone on her poor family farm with three small children, when some of Sherman's Best arrived to take her lone cow and a few chickens, leaving her and her children nothing.As she screamed at them, one of the soldiers shot her dead. And they left her body lying on the porch with her three, terrified kids.
===========
That was their orders. To "make the South feel they were defeated". Sherman himself warned them well in advance of what he would do. Fair? No. War isn't fair. For some reason the South thought that war should be, and some still do.
===========
That was their orders. To "make the South feel they were defeated". Sherman himself warned them well in advance of what he would do. Fair? No. War isn't fair. For some reason the South thought that war should be, and some still do.
Posted by: Bigby's Roping Gloves at June 22, 2015 05:02 PM (3ZtZW)
520
And this will make the Confederate Flag a bigger symbol to those who want to use for hate than before
Feature, not bug. Actual racist hate groups getting more belligerent -> more people more enthusiastic about giving up more liberties/ceding more control to Big Government.
Feature, not bug. Actual racist hate groups getting more belligerent -> more people more enthusiastic about giving up more liberties/ceding more control to Big Government.
Posted by: HR braucht ein Bier at June 22, 2015 05:02 PM (ZKzrr)
521
Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at June 22, 2015 04:57 PM
It's all fun and games when it's somebody else's culture being shit on for 150 years. I'm not southern either, but I'm not stupid enough to think it'll never happen to me just because I'm north of the Ohio River.
It's all fun and games when it's somebody else's culture being shit on for 150 years. I'm not southern either, but I'm not stupid enough to think it'll never happen to me just because I'm north of the Ohio River.
Posted by: kartoffel at June 22, 2015 05:02 PM (fVxXv)
522
Of course Obama is giving the eulogy.
Just like he did at the two assassinated New York cops' funerals.
Just like he did at the two assassinated New York cops' funerals.
Posted by: pj at June 22, 2015 05:02 PM (cHuNI)
523
When do the reparations checks go in the mail?
Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at June 22, 2015 05:02 PM (W5DcG)
Posted by: Cruzinator at June 22, 2015 05:02 PM (yCkeu)
Posted by: Bigby's Roping Gloves at June 22, 2015 05:02 PM (3ZtZW)
526
"If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that. What I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union; and what I forbear, I forbear because I do not believe it would help to save the Union." -Abe Lincoln
Posted by: Jollyroger at June 22, 2015 05:03 PM (t06LC)
Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at June 22, 2015 05:03 PM (VPLuQ)
528
Why are we using "racialist" to describe Roof? There are 3 unneeded letters in there.
Posted by: chique d'afrique (the artist formerly known as african chick) at June 22, 2015 05:03 PM (shFKH)
529
"Boss, if Nikki Haley visits Hazzard County, what do you say we arrest her unless she promises to wait tables at the Boar's Nest?"
Great idea. I'll be ordering a Nikki/Daisy sandwich.
Posted by: Boss Hogg at June 22, 2015 04:58 PM (OD2ni)
--I watched The Dukes as a youngster, and it was a safe bet that if a country star made a guest appearance on the show, the plot would be about Boss Hogg having him arrested and only released if he played at the Boar's Nest.
Great idea. I'll be ordering a Nikki/Daisy sandwich.
Posted by: Boss Hogg at June 22, 2015 04:58 PM (OD2ni)
--I watched The Dukes as a youngster, and it was a safe bet that if a country star made a guest appearance on the show, the plot would be about Boss Hogg having him arrested and only released if he played at the Boar's Nest.
Posted by: logprof at June 22, 2015 05:03 PM (DgSC4)
530
can anyone really argue the flag is not plausibly taken to be, among other things, a symbol of slavery, segregation, and Jim Crow?
--
Ace, you must understand that the flag itself was planned as a symbol of southern states going their own way. Segregation, discrimination, and Jim Crow were much later in time, thus the flag, if it was used in those more recent days as a symbol for pernicious things, was being appropriated for a different purpose.
The logic of the argument that the confederate flag is a symbol for Jim Crow is like saying hoodies were designed as gang attire.
can anyone really argue the flag is not plausibly taken to be, among other things, a symbol of slavery, segregation, and Jim Crow?
--
Ace, you must understand that the flag itself was planned as a symbol of southern states going their own way. Segregation, discrimination, and Jim Crow were much later in time, thus the flag, if it was used in those more recent days as a symbol for pernicious things, was being appropriated for a different purpose.
The logic of the argument that the confederate flag is a symbol for Jim Crow is like saying hoodies were designed as gang attire.
Posted by: Vashta Nerada at June 22, 2015 05:03 PM (20Zla)
531
Feature, not bug. Actual racist hate groups getting more belligerent -> more people more enthusiastic about giving up more liberties/ceding more control to Big Government.
Right up until the "strong horse / weak horse" equation changes. Then the fun really starts.
Right up until the "strong horse / weak horse" equation changes. Then the fun really starts.
Posted by: Brother Cavil, down with Eph 6:12 at June 22, 2015 05:03 PM (2l5vw)
532
Just like he did at the two assassinated New York cops' funerals.
I wager Obama will give the eulogy when that POS Mumia finally kicks off.
I wager Obama will give the eulogy when that POS Mumia finally kicks off.
Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at June 22, 2015 05:03 PM (8ZskC)
533
Barack Obama on the $20 bill, or Charleston burns.
Posted by: Mau-Mau The Flack Catchers While You Can at June 22, 2015 05:03 PM (nbGZj)
534
See some Lincoln quotes about it and you'll see that the war wasn't fully about ending slavery at all. A goal yes, kinda the way Operation Iraqi Freedom was about freeing the Iraqis.
Yes. Lincoln's party wanted to oppose the expansion of slavery, and his party included those who wanted to abolish slavery, but as a politician, he did not have the support to push for an end to slavery.
The support he had was only enough to fight to preserve the union. It was after years of war that hearts were hardened enough to hate slavery as well.
Yes. Lincoln's party wanted to oppose the expansion of slavery, and his party included those who wanted to abolish slavery, but as a politician, he did not have the support to push for an end to slavery.
The support he had was only enough to fight to preserve the union. It was after years of war that hearts were hardened enough to hate slavery as well.
Posted by: ConservativeMonster at June 22, 2015 05:04 PM (0NdlF)
535
The very fact that we are arguing about the Flag, means the Left has won
This. I'm out of this click-fucking-bait thread before I post something I shouldn't.
This. I'm out of this click-fucking-bait thread before I post something I shouldn't.
Posted by: Grump928(c) Native Texan and Alabama Alum, Twice Insufferable at June 22, 2015 05:04 PM (evdj2)
536
>>>In other words, they're being defensive.
i get the defensiveness but then the defensiveness gets mixed in with "Jim Crow wasn't so bad, black people didn't even mind it until yankee troublemakers got them all stirred up."
how do I put this? This is hard to put into words. But at some point, people's ability to make one feel guilty and defensive is a product of one's own thoughts, and one has the key to this prison in one's pocket.
I don't mean "You're racist to feel guilty and defensive." I mean you're somehow, in your own minds, associating YOURSELVES with something you plainly didn't have anything to do with, such that, when people criticize slavery, you feel defensive and attacked.
DON'T FEEL DEFENSIVE AND ATTACKED! Instead of merely SAYING "this had nothing to do with me and I am entirely innocent of it," actually start BELIEVING it!
And then you can say, like I can, that slavery was an outrageous moral evil and it is a stain on America that it persisted so long here when other advanced civilizations were outlawing it.
i get the defensiveness but then the defensiveness gets mixed in with "Jim Crow wasn't so bad, black people didn't even mind it until yankee troublemakers got them all stirred up."
how do I put this? This is hard to put into words. But at some point, people's ability to make one feel guilty and defensive is a product of one's own thoughts, and one has the key to this prison in one's pocket.
I don't mean "You're racist to feel guilty and defensive." I mean you're somehow, in your own minds, associating YOURSELVES with something you plainly didn't have anything to do with, such that, when people criticize slavery, you feel defensive and attacked.
DON'T FEEL DEFENSIVE AND ATTACKED! Instead of merely SAYING "this had nothing to do with me and I am entirely innocent of it," actually start BELIEVING it!
And then you can say, like I can, that slavery was an outrageous moral evil and it is a stain on America that it persisted so long here when other advanced civilizations were outlawing it.
Posted by: ace at June 22, 2015 05:04 PM (bhepQ)
537
I don't really care if cs wants to take down the flag. It probably time. It has nothing to do with what just happened though.
As for the general use of the battle flag, in most cases it means nothing more sinister than celebration of being from the south, but it's mostly relegated to the lower classes for a variety of reasons.
As for the general use of the battle flag, in most cases it means nothing more sinister than celebration of being from the south, but it's mostly relegated to the lower classes for a variety of reasons.
Posted by: Le-a is on a boat, MFers! at June 22, 2015 05:04 PM (vmMMi)
538
Trade Pappy Van Winkle's bourbon for Jack Daniels?
Done deal.
If you have it. Every place I've seen it, online or in stores has been out. I can have a bottle of Jack in ten minutes.
Bird in the hand and all that.
Done deal.
If you have it. Every place I've seen it, online or in stores has been out. I can have a bottle of Jack in ten minutes.
Bird in the hand and all that.
Posted by: rickb223 at June 22, 2015 05:04 PM (tUTpw)
539
Greetings:
What amazes me a bit is that that ersatz "African-American" flag that we're treated to visions of on too many occasions has yet to enter the conversation not unlike those black on white crime statistics that the alleged shooter seems to have mentioned.
What amazes me a bit is that that ersatz "African-American" flag that we're treated to visions of on too many occasions has yet to enter the conversation not unlike those black on white crime statistics that the alleged shooter seems to have mentioned.
Posted by: 11B40 at June 22, 2015 05:04 PM (evgyj)
540
hah! I'd like to get that started up among the left, the idea that they should just kick the old confederacy out of the union, just to shows 'em!
Then I move there the following week.
Posted by: ace at June 22, 2015 04:09 PM (bhepQ)
Ha - this!
The only thing about this issue that rankles me is that it's just the Left shoving shit down the throats of Americans they dislike. Other than that I'm not overly concerned about how it turns out. However, I think that while on the one hand it's offensive to give any "win" to the Leftist trash, on the other hand I think it helps serve to sweep away old symbols loaded with some unwelcome baggage. This paves the way for new symbols to emerge, and be associated with a new secessionist movement that is divorced from the Old South, and from slavery in particular.
The idea of breaking away from this rotting Union is a good one, and should be given new footing, new life. The more that can be done to eliminate any links to the last attempt the better. This country is dying a horrid death from a nasty cancer, and the only hope to prolong the good years for at least some of us is national divorce. For that we'll need all the allies we can get.
Then I move there the following week.
Posted by: ace at June 22, 2015 04:09 PM (bhepQ)
Ha - this!
The only thing about this issue that rankles me is that it's just the Left shoving shit down the throats of Americans they dislike. Other than that I'm not overly concerned about how it turns out. However, I think that while on the one hand it's offensive to give any "win" to the Leftist trash, on the other hand I think it helps serve to sweep away old symbols loaded with some unwelcome baggage. This paves the way for new symbols to emerge, and be associated with a new secessionist movement that is divorced from the Old South, and from slavery in particular.
The idea of breaking away from this rotting Union is a good one, and should be given new footing, new life. The more that can be done to eliminate any links to the last attempt the better. This country is dying a horrid death from a nasty cancer, and the only hope to prolong the good years for at least some of us is national divorce. For that we'll need all the allies we can get.
Posted by: Reactionary at June 22, 2015 05:05 PM (TsW/N)
541
Cs=sc, btw.
Posted by: Le-a is on a boat, MFers! at June 22, 2015 05:05 PM (vmMMi)
542
There just seems to be this weird refusal to just unambiguously say slavery was a bad and rotten thing.
Posted by: ace
Slavery was a bad and rotten thing, and a curse upon this nation that led to the destruction of the Republic. We as a nation are still suffering Divine punishment for perpetuating such an evil, horrible institution. And I really mean that.
Posted by: ace
Slavery was a bad and rotten thing, and a curse upon this nation that led to the destruction of the Republic. We as a nation are still suffering Divine punishment for perpetuating such an evil, horrible institution. And I really mean that.
Posted by: Moderate Salami at June 22, 2015 05:05 PM (/Ho8c)
543
"There just seems to be this weird refusal to just unambiguously say slavery was a bad and rotten thing."
Ace, your hipsterism is showing. Please quote someone living today who says slavery was good. You are getting to be as bad at Strawmen as Obama.
Ace, your hipsterism is showing. Please quote someone living today who says slavery was good. You are getting to be as bad at Strawmen as Obama.
Posted by: Super Creepy Eric Hoteham at June 22, 2015 05:05 PM (oDCMR)
544
President Obama has no regrets about using the N-word to make a point during a recent discussion on race, the White House said Monday.
He does not, said White House press secretary Josh Earnest. The presidents use of the word and the reason he used the word could not be more apparent.
So N-word ( I would say it since Fredo was allowed but who needs that shit ) good, Flag bad?
Weasel Zippers
Sigh
He does not, said White House press secretary Josh Earnest. The presidents use of the word and the reason he used the word could not be more apparent.
So N-word ( I would say it since Fredo was allowed but who needs that shit ) good, Flag bad?
Weasel Zippers
Sigh
Posted by: Nevergiveup at June 22, 2015 05:05 PM (wq4B0)
545
Posted by: Nevergiveup at June 22, 2015 05:00 PM (wq4B0)
Obama probably knows a lot of people-sort of. I'm sure there are many people who knew the pastor and the others who were killed much much better. Obama grandstanding again. Unless church members asked him he doesn't belong there and he couldn't even relate to the faith that inspired these people because he's a FAUX christian. Added to that, we know he isn't actually going to write the speech. He'll tweak it-maybe he won't write it.
Obama probably knows a lot of people-sort of. I'm sure there are many people who knew the pastor and the others who were killed much much better. Obama grandstanding again. Unless church members asked him he doesn't belong there and he couldn't even relate to the faith that inspired these people because he's a FAUX christian. Added to that, we know he isn't actually going to write the speech. He'll tweak it-maybe he won't write it.
Posted by: FenelonSpoke at June 22, 2015 05:05 PM (OSs/l)
546
Why are we even talking about the stupid flag?
It had nothing to do with Dylann Root's murders.
We are fighting the left on the left's turf and the left's terms. Stop that. It is stupid.
It had nothing to do with Dylann Root's murders.
We are fighting the left on the left's turf and the left's terms. Stop that. It is stupid.
Posted by: chemjeff at June 22, 2015 05:05 PM (2ap0X)
547
There just seems to be this weird refusal to just unambiguously say slavery was a bad and rotten thing.
Posted by: ace at June 22, 2015 04:57 PM (bhepQ)
It's implicit and obvious. Does not need to be repeated every third breath as some sort of overt signal that one is of acceptable mental thought.
Posted by: ace at June 22, 2015 04:57 PM (bhepQ)
It's implicit and obvious. Does not need to be repeated every third breath as some sort of overt signal that one is of acceptable mental thought.
Posted by: flounder at June 22, 2015 05:05 PM (Vf5rR)
548
Appeasement? Caving in? Hoping that if we give in on this, they'll be satisfied?
Sorry, my friends. People who think this concession will satisfy the SJW hatemongers are like the citizens of Savannah thinking that Sherman would be satisfied with Atlanta.
Or like Chamberlain thinking Adolf would be satisfied with the Sudetenland. Giving them this victory only fuels their demand for the next.
Sorry, my friends. People who think this concession will satisfy the SJW hatemongers are like the citizens of Savannah thinking that Sherman would be satisfied with Atlanta.
Or like Chamberlain thinking Adolf would be satisfied with the Sudetenland. Giving them this victory only fuels their demand for the next.
Posted by: Keith Arnold at June 22, 2015 05:06 PM (iIzG7)
549
322
18 My father made a prediction about ten years ago that we were
getting to the point where Robert E. Lee would be universally considered
a traitor to the United States instead of a patriot to Virginia.
Posted by: David at June 22, 2015 03:57 PM (UtRhK)
Too late, it's already happened. Just read the comments section in
any NY Times article on the flag controversy (if you can stand to
without barfing). "They were traitors and deserved to be hanged!!
Eleventy!!!Posted by: Hurricane LaFawnduh at June 22, 2015 04:35 PM (laMCB)
Yep. I remember this story from back in '13 about removing their paintings.
http://tinyurl.com/mszhs7s
Lee was a classic tragic hero story, his fatal flaw being his loyalty to his family/state. Hated slavery, incredibly noble and smart, but could not go to war against his VA kin. Not just some evil racist man. Expunging the truth about Lee and Stonewall Jackson because they were on the losing side is part and parcel of the winners having the privilege of writing/rewriting history. Doesn't make it right, but it was bound to happen eventually.
Both Lee and Jackson were West Point graduates. Have they burned them in effigy there yet?
18 My father made a prediction about ten years ago that we were
getting to the point where Robert E. Lee would be universally considered
a traitor to the United States instead of a patriot to Virginia.
Posted by: David at June 22, 2015 03:57 PM (UtRhK)
Too late, it's already happened. Just read the comments section in
any NY Times article on the flag controversy (if you can stand to
without barfing). "They were traitors and deserved to be hanged!!
Eleventy!!!Posted by: Hurricane LaFawnduh at June 22, 2015 04:35 PM (laMCB)
Yep. I remember this story from back in '13 about removing their paintings.
http://tinyurl.com/mszhs7s
Lee was a classic tragic hero story, his fatal flaw being his loyalty to his family/state. Hated slavery, incredibly noble and smart, but could not go to war against his VA kin. Not just some evil racist man. Expunging the truth about Lee and Stonewall Jackson because they were on the losing side is part and parcel of the winners having the privilege of writing/rewriting history. Doesn't make it right, but it was bound to happen eventually.
Both Lee and Jackson were West Point graduates. Have they burned them in effigy there yet?
Posted by: LizLem at June 22, 2015 05:06 PM (hvf9s)
550
Posted by: 11B40 at June 22, 2015 05:04 PM (evgyj)
Food for thought, man. Food for thought.
*scratches head*
Food for thought, man. Food for thought.
*scratches head*
Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at June 22, 2015 05:06 PM (8ZskC)
551
Obama probably knows a lot of people-sort of. I'm sure there are many people who knew the pastor and the others who were killed much much better. Obama grandstanding again. Unless church members asked him he doesn't belong there and he couldn't even relate to the faith that inspired these people because he's a FAUX christian. Added to that, we know he isn't actually going to write the speech. He'll tweak it-maybe he won't write it.
Posted by: FenelonSpoke at June 22, 2015 05:05 PM (OSs/l)
hey I agree with you. i am just relating what fredo said
Posted by: FenelonSpoke at June 22, 2015 05:05 PM (OSs/l)
hey I agree with you. i am just relating what fredo said
Posted by: Nevergiveup at June 22, 2015 05:06 PM (wq4B0)
552
By the way, while you're all busy bitching about a relic of history being taken down, there is human trafficking and sex slavery going on right now across the planet. Remember #bringbackourgirls? Oh, what a blow against the evil of slavery that was, huh?
Lives that can be saved right now, instead of hand-ringing over the feelings of people, white and black, that were not directly affected by slavery in this nation. Half the f'ing country is too young to know what Dukes of Hazzard was let alone weep over the Civil War. We're generations past it. I'd be more than happy to burn the stars and bars myself if people would quit milking the "slavery" pity party to justify every life-failure they endured and reparation they demand.
Lives that can be saved right now, instead of hand-ringing over the feelings of people, white and black, that were not directly affected by slavery in this nation. Half the f'ing country is too young to know what Dukes of Hazzard was let alone weep over the Civil War. We're generations past it. I'd be more than happy to burn the stars and bars myself if people would quit milking the "slavery" pity party to justify every life-failure they endured and reparation they demand.
Posted by: Saltydonnie at June 22, 2015 05:07 PM (zBwYh)
553
506 There just seems to be this weird refusal to just unambiguously say slavery was a bad and rotten thing.
I find it hard to believe that in the time of slavery, the plantation owners thought of themselves as bad people.
I'm certain they thought they were progressives at that time. Accepting the settled science that blacks were an inferior species that needed protection, direction and guidance. The owners were probably proud of the fact they were bringing Christian values and teachings to the savages that put slaves far above their contemporaries in Africa.
No, at the time, considering what the owners knew, what the leaders and scholars and pastors of the day were saying, slavery wasn't a bad and rotten thing.
I find it hard to believe that in the time of slavery, the plantation owners thought of themselves as bad people.
I'm certain they thought they were progressives at that time. Accepting the settled science that blacks were an inferior species that needed protection, direction and guidance. The owners were probably proud of the fact they were bringing Christian values and teachings to the savages that put slaves far above their contemporaries in Africa.
No, at the time, considering what the owners knew, what the leaders and scholars and pastors of the day were saying, slavery wasn't a bad and rotten thing.
Posted by: jwest at June 22, 2015 05:07 PM (9ZZd+)
554
Both Lee and Jackson were West Point graduates. Have they burned them in effigy there yet?
Posted by: LizLem
No, but I read a while back that their portraits were removed.
Both Lee and Jackson were West Point graduates. Have they burned them in effigy there yet?
Posted by: LizLem
No, but I read a while back that their portraits were removed.
Posted by: Moderate Salami at June 22, 2015 05:07 PM (/Ho8c)
555
>I mean you're somehow, in your own minds, associating YOURSELVES with
something you plainly didn't have anything to do with, such that, when
people criticize slavery, you feel defensive and attacked.
Some people have a cultural consciousness that goes back farther than their parents' generation. This is something that isn't easy for more atomized northerners to understand.
something you plainly didn't have anything to do with, such that, when
people criticize slavery, you feel defensive and attacked.
Some people have a cultural consciousness that goes back farther than their parents' generation. This is something that isn't easy for more atomized northerners to understand.
Posted by: kartoffel at June 22, 2015 05:07 PM (fVxXv)
556
I don't mean "You're racist to feel guilty and defensive." I mean you're somehow, in your own minds, associating YOURSELVES with something you plainly didn't have anything to do with, such that, when people criticize slavery, you feel defensive and attacked.
No enemies on the Right. Yes, some people on the Right treasure the CSA flag and the traditions/family it represents, warts and all.
The Left want to divide and conquer, using their Poor Offended Feelings as their blackmail chip. Screw 'em. Give them nothing.
No enemies on the Right. Yes, some people on the Right treasure the CSA flag and the traditions/family it represents, warts and all.
The Left want to divide and conquer, using their Poor Offended Feelings as their blackmail chip. Screw 'em. Give them nothing.
Posted by: ConservativeMonster at June 22, 2015 05:07 PM (0NdlF)
557
Slavery was legal under the stars and stripes for decades. Let's take that down too!
Posted by: Little Boomer at June 22, 2015 05:08 PM (ZuVs9)
558
Where does it stop? Will this appease the SJW? I really don't care if it stays or goes. My point is will it make an actual difference? I suspect not and I will still be called a racist.
Posted by: dogfish at June 22, 2015 05:08 PM (jWtyG)
559
491 Crazy fucknut guns down 9 people, the obvious answer is to ban a flag. Welcome to Shitsville.
Posted by: Lincolntf at June 22, 2015 04:58 PM (tvQwu)
^^^^^ times 3.14159265 something something
Posted by: Lincolntf at June 22, 2015 04:58 PM (tvQwu)
^^^^^ times 3.14159265 something something
Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Suntanning in Bizzaro World at June 22, 2015 05:08 PM (CFcIt)
560
Just another day in the Cold W*r
Posted by: Jeb! at June 22, 2015 05:08 PM (hKyl0)
561
The kid also wore a Golds Gym shirt, no one is calling for the banning of Golds Gyms.
****
And gauging by his physique, he'd never been inside one. Probably gives the same degree of significance to the one as to the other.
****
And gauging by his physique, he'd never been inside one. Probably gives the same degree of significance to the one as to the other.
Posted by: Muldoon, a solid man at June 22, 2015 05:08 PM (mvenn)
562
So Ace is practicing some nice moral relativism here. "It wasn't rape, rape" back in good ol' Rome.
Dude, you're just wrong.
Posted by: Rob at June 22, 2015 05:00 PM (9rjbw)
I agree with Ace. Slavery is always wrong, but some practices within the institution of slavery are worse than others. American slavery was the forcible subjugation of an entire race as less than human. In some other contexts, slavery was sort of opportunistic, for example, someone who owed money could become a slave or slaves could be captives from wars.
I am not saying that American slavery was unique, but it was certainly extremely horrible and worse than some other forms of slavery.
Dude, you're just wrong.
Posted by: Rob at June 22, 2015 05:00 PM (9rjbw)
I agree with Ace. Slavery is always wrong, but some practices within the institution of slavery are worse than others. American slavery was the forcible subjugation of an entire race as less than human. In some other contexts, slavery was sort of opportunistic, for example, someone who owed money could become a slave or slaves could be captives from wars.
I am not saying that American slavery was unique, but it was certainly extremely horrible and worse than some other forms of slavery.
Posted by: chique d'afrique (the artist formerly known as african chick) at June 22, 2015 05:08 PM (shFKH)
563
"He recently removed it this year due to some local pressure (I think from county commissioners) who said it was unwelcoming to Hispanic citizens and harbored bad connotations."
Now THAT I would fight against. Asshole probably wants us to celebrate Santa Anna as well. *spit*
Now THAT I would fight against. Asshole probably wants us to celebrate Santa Anna as well. *spit*
Posted by: Lauren at June 22, 2015 05:08 PM (MYCIw)
564
>>> OK, fine. Then no Rainbow Flag, Obama Flag, etc, etc.
Especially no effing Packer Shit.
Posted by: muttering vikings fan at June 22, 2015 04:54 PM (+IuHY) <<<<
Whoah, WAIT A MINUTE.
Rainbow Flag =/= Packer Shit?!?
Especially no effing Packer Shit.
Posted by: muttering vikings fan at June 22, 2015 04:54 PM (+IuHY) <<<<
Whoah, WAIT A MINUTE.
Rainbow Flag =/= Packer Shit?!?
Posted by: Mickey Shwarma at June 22, 2015 05:09 PM (sCHw2)
565
Yazidi Slave Girls Don't Blame Obama and they hate Confederate Flags too. Stuff Ace Believes.
Posted by: Super Creepy Eric Hoteham at June 22, 2015 05:09 PM (oDCMR)
566
Hey man I only fly the Nazi flag to celebrate my German heritage, I totally love Jewish people, why some of my best friends are named Goldberg.
True story.
True story.
Posted by: HUCK / AKIN 2016 at June 22, 2015 05:09 PM (0LHZx)
567
>>Slavery was a bad and rotten thing, and a curse upon this nation that led to the destruction of the Republic. We as a nation are still suffering Divine punishment for perpetuating such an evil, horrible institution. And I really mean that.
The bible says something about suffering for the sins of our fathers out to the fourth generation?
But...we should be past that now. So maybe its time to let it go. The south is probably more integrated racially than most if the north so it's a bit annoying to be constantly lectured on this topic.
The bible says something about suffering for the sins of our fathers out to the fourth generation?
But...we should be past that now. So maybe its time to let it go. The south is probably more integrated racially than most if the north so it's a bit annoying to be constantly lectured on this topic.
Posted by: Le-a is on a boat, MFers! at June 22, 2015 05:09 PM (vmMMi)
568
If the Left's attacks are getting to you, you need to man up or woman up and tell them to eat shit.
Do not accept the premise.
Do not accept the premise.
Posted by: eman at June 22, 2015 05:09 PM (+/4Vy)
569
>>>Some people have a cultural consciousness that goes back farther than their parents' generation. This is something that isn't easy for more atomized northerners to understand.
then this gets at my statememt, apparently controversial, that some people seem unconfortable at simply branding slavery a moral outrage.
At some point, the living need to bury the dead, you know. You can't keep going on forever making excuses for slavery just because of the (egotistical) line of pride extending back to your great-great-great-granddaddy.
then this gets at my statememt, apparently controversial, that some people seem unconfortable at simply branding slavery a moral outrage.
At some point, the living need to bury the dead, you know. You can't keep going on forever making excuses for slavery just because of the (egotistical) line of pride extending back to your great-great-great-granddaddy.
Posted by: ace at June 22, 2015 05:09 PM (bhepQ)
570
534 See some Lincoln quotes about it and you'll see that the war wasn't fully about ending slavery at all. A goal yes, kinda the way Operation Iraqi Freedom was about freeing the Iraqis.
Yes. Lincoln's party wanted to oppose the expansion of slavery, and his party included those who wanted to abolish slavery, but as a politician, he did not have the support to push for an end to slavery.
The support he had was only enough to fight to preserve the union. It was after years of war that hearts were hardened enough to hate slavery as well.
Posted by: ConservativeMonster at June 22, 2015 05:04 PM (0NdlF)
OK, but if your theory is correct, and his goal at the outset was not to free the slaves, why go to war at all? "Gee, this thing started and that abolition talk was all just blather, come on back?"
Yes. Lincoln's party wanted to oppose the expansion of slavery, and his party included those who wanted to abolish slavery, but as a politician, he did not have the support to push for an end to slavery.
The support he had was only enough to fight to preserve the union. It was after years of war that hearts were hardened enough to hate slavery as well.
Posted by: ConservativeMonster at June 22, 2015 05:04 PM (0NdlF)
OK, but if your theory is correct, and his goal at the outset was not to free the slaves, why go to war at all? "Gee, this thing started and that abolition talk was all just blather, come on back?"
Posted by: Jollyroger at June 22, 2015 05:09 PM (t06LC)
571
When to we ban Eskimo kisses?
Posted by: dogfish at June 22, 2015 05:09 PM (jWtyG)
572
If you have it. Every place I've seen it, online or in stores has been out. I can have a bottle of Jack in ten minutes.
Bird in the hand and all that.
Posted by: rickb223 at June 22, 2015 05:04 PM (tUTpw)
I'm looking at 2 bottles of 17-year right now.
Must be a Yankee thing. ;-)
Bird in the hand and all that.
Posted by: rickb223 at June 22, 2015 05:04 PM (tUTpw)
I'm looking at 2 bottles of 17-year right now.
Must be a Yankee thing. ;-)
Posted by: Sean Bannion at June 22, 2015 05:10 PM (V+kmg)
573
The fact that no GOP leader or candidate will call the Dems out on their racist slave owning past is outrageous.
Posted by: Iblis at June 22, 2015 05:10 PM (9221z)
574
I think it should come down but this really has NOTHING to do with the shooting and I hate letting the media dictate the terms of this debate.
Posted by: Kal at June 22, 2015 05:10 PM (fooJf)
575
He craved becoming famous by doing something infamous.
We discussed ignoring these monsters last go round.
We discussed ignoring these monsters last go round.
Posted by: DaveA at June 22, 2015 05:10 PM (DL2i+)
576
We as a nation are still suffering Divine punishment for perpetuating such an evil, horrible institution. And I really mean that.
No, we are suffering from our modern sins. Some of that may have been inherited from our forefathers, but ultimately they're ours to own and repent of.
No, we are suffering from our modern sins. Some of that may have been inherited from our forefathers, but ultimately they're ours to own and repent of.
Posted by: ConservativeMonster at June 22, 2015 05:10 PM (0NdlF)
Posted by: ScoggDog at June 22, 2015 05:10 PM (l1wsb)
578
if southern pride demands a defense to the Ninth Degree (defending everything ancestors did, back Nine full generations), then I guess it's going to be around 2130 when we can discuss Jim Crow as being bad, without there being a lot of ancestor-pride complicating what really should be a very simple issue.
Posted by: ace at June 22, 2015 05:11 PM (bhepQ)
579
And this will make the Confederate Flag a bigger symbol to those who want to use for hate than before
Posted by: Nevergiveup at June 22, 2015 04:57 PM (wq4B0)
----------------------------------------
Not hate. Rebellion. I'm thinking of buying the CBF just because it pisses of northerners and leftists.
And I've never thought about buying one until today.
Posted by: Nevergiveup at June 22, 2015 04:57 PM (wq4B0)
----------------------------------------
Not hate. Rebellion. I'm thinking of buying the CBF just because it pisses of northerners and leftists.
And I've never thought about buying one until today.
Posted by: Soona at June 22, 2015 05:11 PM (P25Hh)
580
"Barack Obama on the $20 bill, or Charleston burns. "
Heck, let's do the full Zimbabwe and put him on the $100T dollar bill.
Heck, let's do the full Zimbabwe and put him on the $100T dollar bill.
Posted by: Ricardo Kill at June 22, 2015 05:11 PM (LA7Cm)
581
Assata, Che, and Mumia offend me. I want their tshirts and posters burned.
Posted by: Bruce With a Wang! at June 22, 2015 05:11 PM (iQIUe)
582
More than F-O-R-T-Y T-H-O-U-S-A-N-D United States citizens have died since last Wednesday's Charleston murders. G-E-T O-V-E-R I-T !
Posted by: Marooned Maroon at June 22, 2015 05:11 PM (hTHAs)
Posted by: Muldoon, a solid man at June 22, 2015 05:11 PM (mvenn)
584
people in the south who are keeping their own tainting a going concern
WTF?
Not capitulating to the Left and Chi Town Jerry's 'untainted holy Union Empire under Divine Emperor Abe' theories and endless Mau-Mauing of the magic racist powers of teh EEEEEVIL Stars and Bars = Southerners keeping their own tainting a going concern?
Not getting it.
WTF?
Not capitulating to the Left and Chi Town Jerry's 'untainted holy Union Empire under Divine Emperor Abe' theories and endless Mau-Mauing of the magic racist powers of teh EEEEEVIL Stars and Bars = Southerners keeping their own tainting a going concern?
Not getting it.
Posted by: some random meathead - if you're not drinking, you're not paying attention at June 22, 2015 05:12 PM (GxHdH)
585
557 little boomer,
Yup...for the Mexicans, Amerinds, Japanese, Slaves, Spaniards, and Fillipino sakes take down that symbol of hate....
It's coming "soon."
Yup...for the Mexicans, Amerinds, Japanese, Slaves, Spaniards, and Fillipino sakes take down that symbol of hate....
It's coming "soon."
Posted by: The Smiling Bandit@sven10077 at June 22, 2015 05:12 PM (/4AZU)
586
Haven't heard anything about global warming in a while. Any way to connect AGW and this flag deal for a twofer?
Posted by: Weasel at June 22, 2015 05:12 PM (e3bId)
587
@553
Ask Margret Sanger (died 1966) about that. She was only about a century or so off with her superiority complex...
Ask Margret Sanger (died 1966) about that. She was only about a century or so off with her superiority complex...
Posted by: Jollyroger at June 22, 2015 05:12 PM (t06LC)
Posted by: Ricardo Kill at June 22, 2015 05:12 PM (LA7Cm)
589
And gauging by his physique, he'd never been inside one. Probably gives the same degree of significance to the one as to the other.
Posted by: Muldoon, a solid man at June 22, 2015 05:08 PM (mvenn)
Yeah, that pic was hilarious.
Posted by: Muldoon, a solid man at June 22, 2015 05:08 PM (mvenn)
Yeah, that pic was hilarious.
Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Suntanning in Bizzaro World at June 22, 2015 05:12 PM (CFcIt)
590
132
Tell Erickson to talk to his own legislators in Georgia. The SC
Confederate Flag came OFF the state house over a decade ago as a "grand
compromise," and was placed at the Confederate Soldiers Memorial on the
grounds.
If you are from South Carolina, you should know that
was regarded as the permanent solution when the deal was struck among
flag defenders, black legislators, the Republican legislature, and
Democratic Governor Jim Hodges.
If you are not from South Carolina, it's none of your damn business, Poindexter. Butt the flock out.
Posted by: Adjoran at June 22, 2015 04:10 PM (QIQ6j)
The flag was damn near invisible on top of the dome....now it's at street level where everyone can see it....be careful what you wish (vote) for.
Tell Erickson to talk to his own legislators in Georgia. The SC
Confederate Flag came OFF the state house over a decade ago as a "grand
compromise," and was placed at the Confederate Soldiers Memorial on the
grounds.
If you are from South Carolina, you should know that
was regarded as the permanent solution when the deal was struck among
flag defenders, black legislators, the Republican legislature, and
Democratic Governor Jim Hodges.
If you are not from South Carolina, it's none of your damn business, Poindexter. Butt the flock out.
Posted by: Adjoran at June 22, 2015 04:10 PM (QIQ6j)
The flag was damn near invisible on top of the dome....now it's at street level where everyone can see it....be careful what you wish (vote) for.
Posted by: BignJames at June 22, 2015 05:12 PM (HtUkt)
591
Actually, Moo Moo only likes Goldberg because he heads up the Moo Moo tax accounting team.
Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at June 22, 2015 05:12 PM (8ZskC)
592
My vote is take the flag down after they stick a leathal dose needle in Roofs ass. For a month.
Then commence the dialogue.
Anyone who walks into a church and kills is richly rewarding of societies ultimate punishment.
Then commence the dialogue.
Anyone who walks into a church and kills is richly rewarding of societies ultimate punishment.
Posted by: se pa moron at June 22, 2015 05:13 PM (xQX/f)
593
I just wish northerners would quit retiring to the south and getting their chuckles out of ridiculing the natives. All.The.Time.
I've heard it at cocktail parties and even among people I know.
We're not backwards, we love our country, southern kids overwhelmingly serve in the military, so either politely live here, or move back to NYC, Chicago, or wherever. We're warm, welcoming people. Stop pissing us off.
/rant
I've heard it at cocktail parties and even among people I know.
We're not backwards, we love our country, southern kids overwhelmingly serve in the military, so either politely live here, or move back to NYC, Chicago, or wherever. We're warm, welcoming people. Stop pissing us off.
/rant
Posted by: Jane D'oh at June 22, 2015 05:13 PM (FsuaD)
Posted by: The Smiling Bandit@sven10077 at June 22, 2015 05:13 PM (/4AZU)
595
"No, but I read a while back that their portraits were removed."
Good. Lee could have resigned and sat out the war. He retracted his oath of loyalty and then killed men who honored theirs. Not a role model for American officers.
Good. Lee could have resigned and sat out the war. He retracted his oath of loyalty and then killed men who honored theirs. Not a role model for American officers.
Posted by: Chris Balsz at June 22, 2015 05:13 PM (8rRE+)
596
And here's HUCK/AKIN aka Moo Moo to lecture us all that Nazism and the Confederacy were one and the same.
You and ace must be hitting the same bong today.
You and ace must be hitting the same bong today.
Posted by: some random meathead - if you're not drinking, you're not paying attention at June 22, 2015 05:14 PM (GxHdH)
597
Cant we just call it 'art' and that will make it OK? Maybe even get funded.
Posted by: Just sayin' at June 22, 2015 05:14 PM (JBtNb)
598
OK, but if your theory is correct, and his goal at the outset was not to free the slaves, why go to war at all? "Gee, this thing started and that abolition talk was all just blather, come on back?"
Because Fort Sumter, and sovereignty of a nation, and preserving what was passed down from the Founding Fathers.
Not everyone agreed with that, obviously, but that's the self consistent position of the Unionists.
Because Fort Sumter, and sovereignty of a nation, and preserving what was passed down from the Founding Fathers.
Not everyone agreed with that, obviously, but that's the self consistent position of the Unionists.
Posted by: ConservativeMonster at June 22, 2015 05:14 PM (0NdlF)
599
Black "leaders" will blame anything and everything besides themselves for the failures of black culture. So it's no surprise that they think taking down a flag will improve their situation.
Posted by: Weew at June 22, 2015 05:14 PM (+jXqc)
600
This is tangential, but does anyone else not really get the concept of pride based on heritage/region like Southern pride, Irish Pride, Puerto Rican Pride?
I have tried to wrap my head around it about a thousand times but I keep coming up empty. I'm proud of being American, but that's something I choose (to a limited extent) because I could, at least in theory, pick up and head over to someplace else.
I dunno.
I have tried to wrap my head around it about a thousand times but I keep coming up empty. I'm proud of being American, but that's something I choose (to a limited extent) because I could, at least in theory, pick up and head over to someplace else.
I dunno.
Posted by: Jenny Hates Her Phone at June 22, 2015 05:14 PM (nQW20)
601
With a rebel yell, they cry More! More! More!
Posted by: The Left That Is... at June 22, 2015 05:14 PM (nbGZj)
602
Actually, Moo Moo only likes Goldberg because he heads up the Moo Moo tax accounting team.
Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at June 22, 2015 05:12 PM (8ZskC)
Is it true he had to buy one of these to take his quarterly estimated payments to the IRS?
http://tinyurl.com/879xvtz
Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at June 22, 2015 05:12 PM (8ZskC)
Is it true he had to buy one of these to take his quarterly estimated payments to the IRS?
http://tinyurl.com/879xvtz
Posted by: Sean Bannion at June 22, 2015 05:14 PM (V+kmg)
603
There just seems to be this weird refusal to just unambiguously say slavery was a bad and rotten thing.
Posted by: ace at June 22, 2015 04:57 PM
It's as obvious as saying the Sun comes up in the East every morning. One can assume that reasonable people know that already and don't require regular reminders.
I don't want to start the who let's-argue-about-the-Civil-War thing that pops up around here from time to time, but it strikes me the Stars and Bars symbolized a helluva lot more than slavery. Our own flag "symbolizes" some unpleasant moments in our history as well, if one wants to see it that way, because people who have done Wrong carried it with them. That's enough to make screwed-up losers like Bombin' Billy Ayers and Dylann Roof deface it.
All that said, I don't mind if SC wants to take it down. It is a symbol of a whole helluva lot of people who died for their country between 1861 and 1865, though, and the act of removing it seems to demean them, IMO.
Posted by: ace at June 22, 2015 04:57 PM
It's as obvious as saying the Sun comes up in the East every morning. One can assume that reasonable people know that already and don't require regular reminders.
I don't want to start the who let's-argue-about-the-Civil-War thing that pops up around here from time to time, but it strikes me the Stars and Bars symbolized a helluva lot more than slavery. Our own flag "symbolizes" some unpleasant moments in our history as well, if one wants to see it that way, because people who have done Wrong carried it with them. That's enough to make screwed-up losers like Bombin' Billy Ayers and Dylann Roof deface it.
All that said, I don't mind if SC wants to take it down. It is a symbol of a whole helluva lot of people who died for their country between 1861 and 1865, though, and the act of removing it seems to demean them, IMO.
Posted by: MrScribbler at June 22, 2015 05:14 PM (P8YHq)
604
Not hate. Rebellion. I'm thinking of buying the CBF just because it pisses of northerners and leftists.
And I've never thought about buying one until today.
Posted by: Soona at June 22, 2015 05:11 PM (P25Hh)
*nods and tilts beer towards Soona*
Same here. Might have to get one modified that stencils "FUCK YOU" through the bars. Never had a thought of buying one.
Had.....
And I've never thought about buying one until today.
Posted by: Soona at June 22, 2015 05:11 PM (P25Hh)
*nods and tilts beer towards Soona*
Same here. Might have to get one modified that stencils "FUCK YOU" through the bars. Never had a thought of buying one.
Had.....
Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Suntanning in Bizzaro World at June 22, 2015 05:15 PM (CFcIt)
Posted by: rickb223 at June 22, 2015 05:15 PM (tUTpw)
606
while we're fixing stuff can we go back to where the red states are the states where reds live. I know that kind of truth made Russert uncomfortable, but he's dead so f his red ass.
Posted by: X at June 22, 2015 05:15 PM (xGNLA)
607
Here's a deal, arrest and try Lois Lerner for conspiring with Obama to deny American Citizens of their Civil Rights in order to win re-election and will talk about SC's flag.
Posted by: Super Creepy Eric Hoteham at June 22, 2015 05:15 PM (oDCMR)
Posted by: Cruzinator at June 22, 2015 05:15 PM (yCkeu)
Posted by: eman at June 22, 2015 05:15 PM (+/4Vy)
Posted by: Ricardo Kill at June 22, 2015 05:15 PM (LA7Cm)
611
We're not backwards, we love our country, southern kids overwhelmingly serve in the military, so either politely live here, or move back to NYC, Chicago, or wherever. We're warm, welcoming people.
Um, everything after "not backwards" makes you backwards.
Um, everything after "not backwards" makes you backwards.
Posted by: Your Social Betters On The Coasts at June 22, 2015 05:15 PM (8ZskC)
612
Here is a fact: Taking down the flag will have no effect on racists. It will not prevent the crime from happening again. It had nothing to do with the crime in the first place. The only thing Haley has accomplished is handing the leftists a victory, just so she doesn't get any more heat from it. She does not have as much character as I had thought.
Posted by: maddogg at June 22, 2015 05:16 PM (xWW96)
613
596 And here's HUCK/AKIN aka Moo Moo to lecture us all that Nazism and the Confederacy were one and the same.
You and ace must be hitting the same bong today.
Posted by: some random meathead - if you're not drinking, you're not paying attention at June 22, 2015 05:14 PM (GxHdH)
___________
Nobody is dumb enough not to see the parallels between flying the two flags.
You and ace must be hitting the same bong today.
Posted by: some random meathead - if you're not drinking, you're not paying attention at June 22, 2015 05:14 PM (GxHdH)
___________
Nobody is dumb enough not to see the parallels between flying the two flags.
Posted by: HUCK / AKIN 2016 at June 22, 2015 05:16 PM (0LHZx)
614
At some point, the living need to bury the dead, you know. You can't keep going on forever making excuses for slavery just because of the (egotistical) line of pride extending back to your great-great-great-granddaddy.
Posted by: ace at June 22, 2015 05:09 PM (bhepQ)
You can't look at something in the context of modern times and rule that a practice that was totally accepted and simple human nature in the distant past was immoral.
Slavery has been a fact of life for thousands of years. It's only in the past few hundred that the developed world has evolved on the subject. So now we're the only ones since the beginning of time to be moral?
Posted by: ace at June 22, 2015 05:09 PM (bhepQ)
You can't look at something in the context of modern times and rule that a practice that was totally accepted and simple human nature in the distant past was immoral.
Slavery has been a fact of life for thousands of years. It's only in the past few hundred that the developed world has evolved on the subject. So now we're the only ones since the beginning of time to be moral?
Posted by: jwest at June 22, 2015 05:16 PM (9ZZd+)
615
when we can discuss Jim Crow as being bad, without there being a lot of
ancestor-pride complicating what really should be a very simple issue.
Yeah because all us Southern folks want to do is put them coloreds in the back of the bus.
I look forward to my daily reading of the stern defenses of Jim Crow laws in the comments of AOS.
Holy strawman , Batman.
ancestor-pride complicating what really should be a very simple issue.
Yeah because all us Southern folks want to do is put them coloreds in the back of the bus.
I look forward to my daily reading of the stern defenses of Jim Crow laws in the comments of AOS.
Holy strawman , Batman.
Posted by: some random meathead - if you're not drinking, you're not paying attention at June 22, 2015 05:16 PM (GxHdH)
616
Posted by: Cruzinator at June 22, 2015 05:15 PM (yCkeu)
yeah not a great idea to call our host a dick. Just a teachable moment in life. but been nice knowing ya
yeah not a great idea to call our host a dick. Just a teachable moment in life. but been nice knowing ya
Posted by: Nevergiveup at June 22, 2015 05:16 PM (wq4B0)
617
>then I guess it's going to be around 2130 when we can discuss Jim Crow
as being bad, without there being a lot of ancestor-pride complicating
what really should be a very simple issue.
Which is why I'm not usually one to discuss it. It's not for me to tell someone to get over their pride, traditions, and culture. We can think of it however we like up here in the Frozen Wastes, but I'm not about to demand that they take up my viewpoint.
as being bad, without there being a lot of ancestor-pride complicating
what really should be a very simple issue.
Which is why I'm not usually one to discuss it. It's not for me to tell someone to get over their pride, traditions, and culture. We can think of it however we like up here in the Frozen Wastes, but I'm not about to demand that they take up my viewpoint.
Posted by: kartoffel at June 22, 2015 05:16 PM (fVxXv)
618
"Sure, you can keep explaining to people that this symbol does not symbol what most would take it to symbolize... but it does seem that at some point the most efficient course of action is to stop displaying the symbol, or to adopt a new one.
Posted by Ace at 03:51 PM Comments "
i agree that appeasement sometimes does work ( not with Hitler or the ghey activists though), but why can't those who are always preaching "tolerance "actually practice it once in a while?
Posted by Ace at 03:51 PM Comments "
i agree that appeasement sometimes does work ( not with Hitler or the ghey activists though), but why can't those who are always preaching "tolerance "actually practice it once in a while?
Posted by: avi at June 22, 2015 05:16 PM (4bND1)
Posted by: Richard McEnroe at June 22, 2015 05:17 PM (Kucy5)
620
how do I put this? This is hard to put into words. But at some point,
people's ability to make one feel guilty and defensive is a product of
one's own thoughts, and one has the key to this prison in one's pocket.
- Ace
Just not black people in response to viewing a symbol? That's kind of racisty.
people's ability to make one feel guilty and defensive is a product of
one's own thoughts, and one has the key to this prison in one's pocket.
- Ace
Just not black people in response to viewing a symbol? That's kind of racisty.
Posted by: flounder at June 22, 2015 05:17 PM (Vf5rR)
621
593 I just wish northerners would quit retiring to the south and getting their chuckles out of ridiculing the natives. All.The.Time.
I've heard it at cocktail parties and even among people I know.
We're not backwards, we love our country, southern kids overwhelmingly serve in the military, so either politely live here, or move back to NYC, Chicago, or wherever. We're warm, welcoming people. Stop pissing us off.
/rant
Posted by: Jane D'oh at June 22, 2015 05:13 PM (FsuaD)
___________
Jane, flying and/or defending the Confederate flag, doesn't help your cause. Just sayin...
I've heard it at cocktail parties and even among people I know.
We're not backwards, we love our country, southern kids overwhelmingly serve in the military, so either politely live here, or move back to NYC, Chicago, or wherever. We're warm, welcoming people. Stop pissing us off.
/rant
Posted by: Jane D'oh at June 22, 2015 05:13 PM (FsuaD)
___________
Jane, flying and/or defending the Confederate flag, doesn't help your cause. Just sayin...
Posted by: HUCK / AKIN 2016 at June 22, 2015 05:17 PM (0LHZx)
622
>>I just wish northerners would quit retiring to the south and getting their chuckles out of ridiculing the natives. All.The.Time.
I just with southerners would stop fighting the war and try to remember that this is one country. I hear here every damn day that northerns don't understand the south without a hint of irony or humility from southerners who haven't a clue about the north. But they are experts at telling us how fucked up the north is.
The tribalism gets older than shit.
I just with southerners would stop fighting the war and try to remember that this is one country. I hear here every damn day that northerns don't understand the south without a hint of irony or humility from southerners who haven't a clue about the north. But they are experts at telling us how fucked up the north is.
The tribalism gets older than shit.
Posted by: JackStraw at June 22, 2015 05:17 PM (g1DWB)
623
I don't mind the Flag coming down. I mind the reason the Flag is coming down
Posted by: Nevergiveup at June 22, 2015 05:17 PM (wq4B0)
624
"So now we're the only ones since the beginning of time to be moral?"
Sure. It's called progress.
Sure. It's called progress.
Posted by: Chris Balsz at June 22, 2015 05:18 PM (8rRE+)
625
Shouldn't then the Italian fag be associated with fascism? A la Mussolini? The German flag even though not "Nazi" be associate with the Nazi's and the death camps?
Posted by: Just sayin' at June 22, 2015 05:18 PM (JBtNb)
626
>>> This is tangential, but does anyone else not really get the concept of pride based on heritage/region like Southern pride, Irish Pride, Puerto Rican Pride?
i'm an egotist so I get taking pride in anything like this, that is, any excuse for some pride.
I understand a small amount of it, but not a lot.
I don't get the sort of pride in one's family going back five or six generations. I mean, I get family pride, but I don't get how some people take this to mean that obvious moral crimes have to be defended or sort of soft-pedaled, due to honor to the family.
i'm an egotist so I get taking pride in anything like this, that is, any excuse for some pride.
I understand a small amount of it, but not a lot.
I don't get the sort of pride in one's family going back five or six generations. I mean, I get family pride, but I don't get how some people take this to mean that obvious moral crimes have to be defended or sort of soft-pedaled, due to honor to the family.
Posted by: ace at June 22, 2015 05:18 PM (bhepQ)
627
The defense of the ancestors, I suspect, springs in part from the fact that the anti-slavery lectures seen to imply that anyone in the South who did not support the peculiar institution was morally obligated to give their lives and treasure and property to fight their own family members and neighbors to end it. Failure to do so is therefore complicity.
If a solid majority of people ever come to abhor infanticide to the degree they should, will I be branded villain because I have not done my utmost to stamp it out by fair means and foul? And if an organized political entity were to arise that would wage that war, must I join them without regard to all other considerations?
If a solid majority of people ever come to abhor infanticide to the degree they should, will I be branded villain because I have not done my utmost to stamp it out by fair means and foul? And if an organized political entity were to arise that would wage that war, must I join them without regard to all other considerations?
Posted by: Reactionary at June 22, 2015 05:18 PM (TsW/N)
628
593 I just wish northerners would quit retiring to the south and getting their chuckles out of ridiculing the natives. All.The.Time.
I've heard it at cocktail parties and even among people I know.
We're not backwards, we love our country, southern kids overwhelmingly serve in the military, so either politely live here, or move back to NYC, Chicago, or wherever. We're warm, welcoming people. Stop pissing us off.
/rant
------------------------
Yankees escaping Yankees have ruined VA and NC. Watch out Texas, their pod children are coming your way next.
I've heard it at cocktail parties and even among people I know.
We're not backwards, we love our country, southern kids overwhelmingly serve in the military, so either politely live here, or move back to NYC, Chicago, or wherever. We're warm, welcoming people. Stop pissing us off.
/rant
------------------------
Yankees escaping Yankees have ruined VA and NC. Watch out Texas, their pod children are coming your way next.
Posted by: Super Creepy Eric Hoteham at June 22, 2015 05:18 PM (oDCMR)
629
Are they going to outlaw the Black Muslims who are fanatic anti-semites? Curious minds would like to know?
Posted by: Nevergiveup at June 22, 2015 05:18 PM (wq4B0)
630
I just find it very irritating that Obama who puts down Christianity at every darn prayer breakfast he attends-is invited to give eulogies for Christian people he doesn't really know. Yep, Obama is going to be spending hours in heartfelt prayer searching the Scriptures so that he can give a moving tribute to the lives of people who embraced the Lordshsip of Jesus Christ as his disciples. And then we'll get to hear what a wonderful orator he was when he moves lips mouthing the words that some WJ speechwriter penned. Couldn't he just give a speech on TV?
Posted by: FenelonSpoke at June 22, 2015 05:18 PM (OSs/l)
631
She does not have as much character as I had thought.
Posted by: maddogg at June 22, 2015 05:16 PM (xWW96)
Nope.
Posted by: maddogg at June 22, 2015 05:16 PM (xWW96)
Nope.
Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Suntanning in Bizzaro World at June 22, 2015 05:18 PM (CFcIt)
632
Jane, flying and/or defending the Confederate flag, doesn't help your cause. Just sayin...
Posted by: HUCK / AKIN 2016 at June 22, 2015 05:17 PM (0LHZx)
Georgia doesn't fly it and I'm not defending it.
Try to pay attention.
Posted by: HUCK / AKIN 2016 at June 22, 2015 05:17 PM (0LHZx)
Georgia doesn't fly it and I'm not defending it.
Try to pay attention.
Posted by: Jane D'oh at June 22, 2015 05:18 PM (FsuaD)
633
>>> I find it hard to believe that in the time of slavery, the plantation owners thought of themselves as bad people.
At Williamsburg they have actors reenact famous people, and the audience can afterwards ask questions of the actors, most stay in character. The actors thoroughly research their roles, have a firm grasp on how their character would have felt. When I was there someone asked Washington how he felt about slavery, if it was a noble or evil thing. Washington said of course it was evil, and an abhorrent practice.
If you dig into their feelings, I believe most of the founding fathers that owned slaves felt that way, that it was an unfair institution. They were not stupid men. But the economy at that time ran on slavery as free labor; I think most of them could not conceive of how to run their plantations without slaves. Should they have figured it out if they felt so strongly about it? Yes. To be fair, Washington did free the slaves he personally owned in his will.
Slavery was evil. But cognitive dissonance causes people to do abhorrent things despite knowing they should do otherwise. It was ever so in history, and it is so to this day (enviro wacko celebs with McMansions and private jets anyone, screeching about killing mother Gaia?) Not a lovely part of human nature but a part nonetheless.
At Williamsburg they have actors reenact famous people, and the audience can afterwards ask questions of the actors, most stay in character. The actors thoroughly research their roles, have a firm grasp on how their character would have felt. When I was there someone asked Washington how he felt about slavery, if it was a noble or evil thing. Washington said of course it was evil, and an abhorrent practice.
If you dig into their feelings, I believe most of the founding fathers that owned slaves felt that way, that it was an unfair institution. They were not stupid men. But the economy at that time ran on slavery as free labor; I think most of them could not conceive of how to run their plantations without slaves. Should they have figured it out if they felt so strongly about it? Yes. To be fair, Washington did free the slaves he personally owned in his will.
Slavery was evil. But cognitive dissonance causes people to do abhorrent things despite knowing they should do otherwise. It was ever so in history, and it is so to this day (enviro wacko celebs with McMansions and private jets anyone, screeching about killing mother Gaia?) Not a lovely part of human nature but a part nonetheless.
Posted by: LizLem at June 22, 2015 05:18 PM (hvf9s)
634
"Italian fag"...hehe. oops.
Posted by: Just sayin' at June 22, 2015 05:18 PM (JBtNb)
635
"Black "leaders" will blame anything and everything besides themselves for the failures of black culture"
Yeah, I'm thinking a week after a bunch of church ladies were gunned down in a prayer meeting isn't exactly the time to focus on the problems within black culture.
The way the church and the family members of the victims have responded to the shooting is pretty much the height of Christian charity. While this flag side show is annoying, the members of the SC black community should receive nothing but praise.
Yeah, I'm thinking a week after a bunch of church ladies were gunned down in a prayer meeting isn't exactly the time to focus on the problems within black culture.
The way the church and the family members of the victims have responded to the shooting is pretty much the height of Christian charity. While this flag side show is annoying, the members of the SC black community should receive nothing but praise.
Posted by: Lauren at June 22, 2015 05:19 PM (MYCIw)
636
This is tangential, but does anyone else not really get the concept of pride based on heritage/region like Southern pride, Irish Pride, Puerto Rican Pride?
Regional pride is based on tribal pride is based on family pride. It is an abnormal human being who does not have some family pride.
America had a pride of an ideological family based on liberty ... but that's been torn down by the Left. In the vacuum goes the default human pride - the tribal/family one.
Regional pride is based on tribal pride is based on family pride. It is an abnormal human being who does not have some family pride.
America had a pride of an ideological family based on liberty ... but that's been torn down by the Left. In the vacuum goes the default human pride - the tribal/family one.
Posted by: ConservativeMonster at June 22, 2015 05:19 PM (0NdlF)
637
>>>I just with southerners would stop fighting the war and try to remember that this is one country.
for now.
I have a mixed opinion on secession; I was against the last one, but in favor of the next one.
(i'm kind of proud of this quote so do feel free to travel it around)
for now.
I have a mixed opinion on secession; I was against the last one, but in favor of the next one.
(i'm kind of proud of this quote so do feel free to travel it around)
Posted by: ace at June 22, 2015 05:19 PM (bhepQ)
638
So it's no surprise that they think taking down a flag will improve their situation.
Posted by: Weew at June 22, 2015 05:14 PM
If it will get the race hustlers -- Choom Boy and the "Reverends" Sharpton and Jackson at the top of the list -- to stop their incessant ranting about "we're not that far from slaverah" and "raaaaaacism!", I would volunteer to personally burn every damn Confederate Battle Flag in the country. Every one.
Posted by: Weew at June 22, 2015 05:14 PM
If it will get the race hustlers -- Choom Boy and the "Reverends" Sharpton and Jackson at the top of the list -- to stop their incessant ranting about "we're not that far from slaverah" and "raaaaaacism!", I would volunteer to personally burn every damn Confederate Battle Flag in the country. Every one.
Posted by: MrScribbler at June 22, 2015 05:19 PM (P8YHq)
639
Hey - did the injun's (woo woo, not dot) have a flag?
Posted by: Weasel at June 22, 2015 05:19 PM (e3bId)
640
And moo-moo, if by "cause" you mean I'm offended by people who move to my state and proceed to shit on it, then I guess that's my "cause."
Posted by: Jane D'oh at June 22, 2015 05:19 PM (FsuaD)
641
KY was on our side, bud.
Posted by: mynewhandle at June 22, 2015 04:53 PM
Always helped me out in a tight spot.
Posted by: mynewhandle at June 22, 2015 04:53 PM
Always helped me out in a tight spot.
Posted by: Bawney Fwank at June 22, 2015 05:20 PM (h4vJk)
642
The "Yep. Obama...." was sarcastic, but I guess you knew that.
Posted by: FenelonSpoke at June 22, 2015 05:20 PM (OSs/l)
643
"Yeah because all us Southern folks want to do is put them coloreds in the back of the bus. "
Yon honest non-slaving owning cracker who just fought against Northern aggression did. That's why he took service under a plantation owner and as soon as he got the vote, voted to keep Negroes out of office forever.
Yon honest non-slaving owning cracker who just fought against Northern aggression did. That's why he took service under a plantation owner and as soon as he got the vote, voted to keep Negroes out of office forever.
Posted by: Chris Balsz at June 22, 2015 05:20 PM (8rRE+)
644
OK, but if your theory is correct, and his goal at the outset was not to free the slaves, why go to war at all? "Gee, this thing started and that abolition talk was all just blather, come on back?"Posted by: Jollyroger at June 22, 2015 05:09 PM (t06LC)For the same reason that people are saying not to give an inch over a flag. If Lincoln had been willing to give away anything and everything in order to keep the Union whole without violence, then it wouldn't be worth it. And accomodating once would have put him in the position of having to do it again whenever the Southern states decided to throw a hissy fit over some point of national disagreement.
OK, but if your theory is correct, and his goal at the outset was not to free the slaves, why go to war at all? "Gee, this thing started and that abolition talk was all just blather, come on back?"Posted by: Jollyroger at June 22, 2015 05:09 PM (t06LC)For the same reason that people are saying not to give an inch over a flag. If Lincoln had been willing to give away anything and everything in order to keep the Union whole without violence, then it wouldn't be worth it. And accomodating once would have put him in the position of having to do it again whenever the Southern states decided to throw a hissy fit over some point of national disagreement.
Posted by: Colorado Alex at June 22, 2015 05:21 PM (OiH3z)
645
"I have a mixed opinion on secession; I was against the last one, but in favor of the next one. "
You'd have to embrace the flag.
You'd have to embrace the flag.
Posted by: Chris Balsz at June 22, 2015 05:21 PM (8rRE+)
646
I have a mixed opinion on secession; I was against the last one, but in favor of the next one.
Even if they use the flag of the last one?
Even if they use the flag of the last one?
Posted by: ConservativeMonster at June 22, 2015 05:21 PM (0NdlF)
647
1. I find it interesting that we're all too dumb to realize that it was a battle flag, not the CSA flag. That does it for me. Generations of southern men were mowed down. That's a wound, something your grandmother and whole extended family will talk about for decades.
2. CAS was not Nazis. I mean, come on. So, I don't know, I guess defeated armies don't get to have memorabilia or pride in what they did. It's not as if there was a CSA SS, you knwo?
3. I guess teh CFB is now a mockingjay, an underground symbol or something.
2. CAS was not Nazis. I mean, come on. So, I don't know, I guess defeated armies don't get to have memorabilia or pride in what they did. It's not as if there was a CSA SS, you knwo?
3. I guess teh CFB is now a mockingjay, an underground symbol or something.
Posted by: joe-impeachin44 at June 22, 2015 05:21 PM (Iv/Hw)
648
"Yep, Obama is going to be spending hours in heartfelt prayer searching the Scriptures so that he can give a moving tribute to the lives of people who embraced the Lordshsip of Jesus Christ as his disciples."
Ok, thinking of Obama as a black pastor is making me giggle. That is one speech he is just not going to be able to pull off. Although maybe he'll wear his Brother Obama church suit.
Ok, thinking of Obama as a black pastor is making me giggle. That is one speech he is just not going to be able to pull off. Although maybe he'll wear his Brother Obama church suit.
Posted by: Lauren at June 22, 2015 05:21 PM (MYCIw)
649
Yeah, there are plenty of good people in the South, but pletny of cocksuckers who jeered and sneered when Boston was hit by a terrorist attack, too. There are assholes all over.
Posted by: Lincolntf at June 22, 2015 05:21 PM (tvQwu)
Posted by: Pappy O'Daniel at June 22, 2015 05:21 PM (oVJmc)
651
Get rid of the stupid flag. Southerners wanting to keep that stupid thing are like my daughter throwing a fit over a toy she doesn't really want or need, simply because I told her to put it away.
Get a different symbol that isn't tied to the worst thing this country ever did. Just use the Gadsden flag, same message, no slavery.
Get a different symbol that isn't tied to the worst thing this country ever did. Just use the Gadsden flag, same message, no slavery.
Posted by: Blooshier at June 22, 2015 05:21 PM (o3U8H)
652
635 "Black "leaders" will blame anything and everything besides themselves for the failures of black culture" "
I'm still waiting for them to blame the slaveowning kings who unloaded their undesirable slaves on the New World.
I'm still waiting for them to blame the slaveowning kings who unloaded their undesirable slaves on the New World.
Posted by: avi at June 22, 2015 05:22 PM (4bND1)
653
Posted by: ace at June 22, 2015 05:04 PM (bhepQ)
Slavery was a horrible evil.
Are we done here? That work for you? Or do you want me sold to Col. Sanders so I can walk a mile in a slave's shoes? What more do you want from someone that DIDN'T ENGAGE OR BENEFIT IN SLAVERY? Unless you are trying to seek guilt based on my race? Hell, I was born in Pennsylvania for Christ's sake! My direct family came into the US shortly after the war!
Now, on your end, admit that no one alive on this date was directly affected by a practice that ended in this nation 150 years ago. That all of the butt-hurt and offended feelings over a piece of cloth are wholly UNEARNED. If YOU were a slave, or the child of one, then you have the right to bitch about injustice. Beyond that, GET OVER IT. And that goes for our white Southern friends still fighting the war.
Slavery was a horrible evil.
Are we done here? That work for you? Or do you want me sold to Col. Sanders so I can walk a mile in a slave's shoes? What more do you want from someone that DIDN'T ENGAGE OR BENEFIT IN SLAVERY? Unless you are trying to seek guilt based on my race? Hell, I was born in Pennsylvania for Christ's sake! My direct family came into the US shortly after the war!
Now, on your end, admit that no one alive on this date was directly affected by a practice that ended in this nation 150 years ago. That all of the butt-hurt and offended feelings over a piece of cloth are wholly UNEARNED. If YOU were a slave, or the child of one, then you have the right to bitch about injustice. Beyond that, GET OVER IT. And that goes for our white Southern friends still fighting the war.
Posted by: Saltydonnie at June 22, 2015 05:22 PM (zBwYh)
654
"American slavery was the forcible subjugation of an entire race as less than human."
Of course, in such a heated debate, anything can and will be taken as fodder for Secretly Harbored Confederate And Racist Sympathies, with subsequent indignant denunciations, but I'm just going to point out here in fidelity to the facts that "an entire race" was not forcibly subjugated in the American system of slavery.
There were free blacks in the slave states. In fact, the first recorded slave owner in America was a free black man.
Of course, in such a heated debate, anything can and will be taken as fodder for Secretly Harbored Confederate And Racist Sympathies, with subsequent indignant denunciations, but I'm just going to point out here in fidelity to the facts that "an entire race" was not forcibly subjugated in the American system of slavery.
There were free blacks in the slave states. In fact, the first recorded slave owner in America was a free black man.
Posted by: torquewrench at June 22, 2015 05:22 PM (noWW6)
655
All of the Stars and Stripes should be burned first. The Yankee flag is the flag of Imperialism and Genocide.
Posted by: Boss Moss at June 22, 2015 05:22 PM (SXQcx)
656
The bible says something about suffering for the sins of our fathers out to the fourth generation?
But...we should be past that now. So maybe its time to let it go.
The south is probably more integrated racially than most if the north so
it's a bit annoying to be constantly lectured on this topic.
Posted by: Le-a
I'm sorry, didn't mean to come across as lecturing. Just wanted to prove that a Southerner with strong feelings about Federalism and deep attachment to my ancestry can easily admit what an awful thing slavery was and is.
But...we should be past that now. So maybe its time to let it go.
The south is probably more integrated racially than most if the north so
it's a bit annoying to be constantly lectured on this topic.
Posted by: Le-a
I'm sorry, didn't mean to come across as lecturing. Just wanted to prove that a Southerner with strong feelings about Federalism and deep attachment to my ancestry can easily admit what an awful thing slavery was and is.
Posted by: Moderate Salami at June 22, 2015 05:22 PM (/Ho8c)
657
Pardon me if racists telling me a flag is racist doesn't impress me.
Posted by: maddogg at June 22, 2015 05:22 PM (xWW96)
658
Yankees escaping Yankees have ruined VA and NC. Watch out Texas, their pod children are coming your way next.
Posted by: Super Creepy Eric Hoteham at June 22, 2015 05:18 PM (oDCMR)
We have similar issues with Californians escaping Californians here in CO.
Posted by: Super Creepy Eric Hoteham at June 22, 2015 05:18 PM (oDCMR)
We have similar issues with Californians escaping Californians here in CO.
Posted by: Bob's House of Flannel Shirts and Wallet Chains at June 22, 2015 05:22 PM (vgIRn)
659
@626
You should come to Texas.
We have trucks here that called the "Texas Edition" and "Texas-Sized" everything. My friends from Mississippi don't get that. I don't understand living in an inferior state.
You should come to Texas.
We have trucks here that called the "Texas Edition" and "Texas-Sized" everything. My friends from Mississippi don't get that. I don't understand living in an inferior state.
Posted by: Jollyroger at June 22, 2015 05:22 PM (t06LC)
660
614 At some point, the living need to bury the dead, you know. You can't keep going on forever making excuses for slavery anything just because of the (egotistical) line of pride victimhood extending back to your great-great-great-granddaddy.
Posted by: ace at June 22, 2015 05:09 PM (bhepQ)
Fixed
Posted by: ace at June 22, 2015 05:09 PM (bhepQ)
Fixed
Posted by: Golfman at June 22, 2015 05:22 PM (48QDY)
661
649 Yeah, there are plenty of good people in the South, but pletny of cocksuckers who jeered and sneered when Boston was hit by a terrorist attack, too. There are assholes all over.
Posted by: Lincolntf at June 22, 2015 05:21 PM (tvQwu)
but we didn't talk about removing mosques from boston.
Posted by: Lincolntf at June 22, 2015 05:21 PM (tvQwu)
but we didn't talk about removing mosques from boston.
Posted by: avi at June 22, 2015 05:22 PM (4bND1)
662
640 And moo-moo, if by "cause" you mean I'm offended by people who move to my state and proceed to shit on it, then I guess that's my "cause."
Posted by: Jane D'oh at June 22, 2015 05:19 PM (FsuaD)
__________
You know very well what I meant. If you want people to think more highly of southerners, step 1 would be to stop fucking flying the confederate flag. And I don't mean you particularly, I mean generally speaking.
I see that flag around here as well occasionally. I'll occasionally see a hat with it or a flag on a pickup or things like that. Now I live about 1500 miles from Dixie. Gee I wonder why people would fly that flag way the hell out here. Oh wait a second, you don't think they do it because they're racist asswipes? Nah. That can't be. After all that flag is just a symbol of state rights and stuff.
Posted by: Jane D'oh at June 22, 2015 05:19 PM (FsuaD)
__________
You know very well what I meant. If you want people to think more highly of southerners, step 1 would be to stop fucking flying the confederate flag. And I don't mean you particularly, I mean generally speaking.
I see that flag around here as well occasionally. I'll occasionally see a hat with it or a flag on a pickup or things like that. Now I live about 1500 miles from Dixie. Gee I wonder why people would fly that flag way the hell out here. Oh wait a second, you don't think they do it because they're racist asswipes? Nah. That can't be. After all that flag is just a symbol of state rights and stuff.
Posted by: HUCK / AKIN 2016 at June 22, 2015 05:23 PM (0LHZx)
663
Nobody is dumb enough not to see the parallels between flying the two flags.
Posted by: HUCK / AKIN 2016 at June 22, 2015 05:16 PM (0LHZx)Does it hurt being that obtuse and stupid?
Posted by: HUCK / AKIN 2016 at June 22, 2015 05:16 PM (0LHZx)Does it hurt being that obtuse and stupid?
Posted by: some random meathead - if you're not drinking, you're not paying attention at June 22, 2015 05:23 PM (GxHdH)
664
While this flag side show is annoying, the members of the SC black community should receive nothing but praise.
Paid any attention to those folks? Notice some things...different from the folks we saw in Baltimore or Ferguson?
Why, it's almost like culture and character matter, or something.
Paid any attention to those folks? Notice some things...different from the folks we saw in Baltimore or Ferguson?
Why, it's almost like culture and character matter, or something.
Posted by: Brother Cavil, down with Eph 6:12 at June 22, 2015 05:23 PM (2l5vw)
665
I just with southerners would stop fighting the war and try to remember that this is one country. I hear here every damn day that northerns don't understand the south without a hint of irony or humility from southerners who haven't a clue about the north. But they are experts at telling us how fucked up the north is. The tribalism gets older than shit.
Posted by: JackStraw at June 22, 2015 05:17 PM (g1DWB)
------------------------------------------
One country? Not anymore. I would love it to be, but I think it's just wishful thinking now.
Posted by: JackStraw at June 22, 2015 05:17 PM (g1DWB)
------------------------------------------
One country? Not anymore. I would love it to be, but I think it's just wishful thinking now.
Posted by: Soona at June 22, 2015 05:23 PM (P25Hh)
666
But they are experts at telling us how fucked up the north is.
Posted by: JackStraw at June 22, 2015 05:17 PM (g1DWB)
It's cold too.
Posted by: JackStraw at June 22, 2015 05:17 PM (g1DWB)
It's cold too.
Posted by: BignJames at June 22, 2015 05:23 PM (HtUkt)
667
637 Posted by: ace at June 22, 2015 05:19 PM (bhepQ)
I think the break-up is more likely to be a slow motion train wreck more than a sharp quick forceful secession...
Miami Florida was trying to make English officially the second language....
the left is building a bomb.
http://tinyurl.com/qcjofge
I think the break-up is more likely to be a slow motion train wreck more than a sharp quick forceful secession...
Miami Florida was trying to make English officially the second language....
the left is building a bomb.
http://tinyurl.com/qcjofge
Posted by: Sven S Blade a.k.a. El Assassin@sven10077 at June 22, 2015 05:24 PM (/4AZU)
668
The time to have this discussion is any time other than when both the Left and UniPussyParty Right are using dead bodies to score political points (ala Mitt over the weekend).
I'm no Confederate apologist - proud Buckeye whose state did as much as anyone to win the Civil War. But I'm in no mood to feed the opportunist vultures and Quisling appeasers a scalp over this. South Carolina can make its own choice and I'd prefer they wait until this incident is past the news cycle to do so.
As for tribal identification, I agree with those who say that they're tired of being the only people who aren't permitted to identify with their tribe. There's no "pride" in being white as such but there's certainly no shame either, and if the other tribes compare poorly in terms of advancing civilization, I'm not going to flagellate my own peeps to satisfy their cultural inferiority complexes.
I'm no Confederate apologist - proud Buckeye whose state did as much as anyone to win the Civil War. But I'm in no mood to feed the opportunist vultures and Quisling appeasers a scalp over this. South Carolina can make its own choice and I'd prefer they wait until this incident is past the news cycle to do so.
As for tribal identification, I agree with those who say that they're tired of being the only people who aren't permitted to identify with their tribe. There's no "pride" in being white as such but there's certainly no shame either, and if the other tribes compare poorly in terms of advancing civilization, I'm not going to flagellate my own peeps to satisfy their cultural inferiority complexes.
Posted by: SocietyIs2Blame at June 22, 2015 05:24 PM (WIOql)
669
Go ahead saw off your tweeters and become Yankees.
Posted by: Boss Moss at June 22, 2015 05:24 PM (SXQcx)
670
>>>Yeah because all us Southern folks want to do is put them coloreds in the back of the bus.<<<
I say we ban buses! Or at least, the back of buses. The undercarriage of buses?
I say we ban buses! Or at least, the back of buses. The undercarriage of buses?
Posted by: Fritz at June 22, 2015 05:24 PM (UzPAd)
671
He might not be able to pull it off. The MSM will say he pulled it off-whetevr he says.
Posted by: FenelonSpoke at June 22, 2015 05:24 PM (OSs/l)
672
Get rid of the stupid flag. Southerners wanting to keep that stupid thing are like my daughter throwing a fit over a toy she doesn't really want or need, simply because I told her to put it away.
Get rid of the stupid American flag. Americans wanting to keep that stupid thing are like my daughter throwing a fit over a toy she doesn't really want or need, simply because I told her to put it away.
No.
Get rid of the stupid American flag. Americans wanting to keep that stupid thing are like my daughter throwing a fit over a toy she doesn't really want or need, simply because I told her to put it away.
No.
Posted by: ConservativeMonster at June 22, 2015 05:24 PM (0NdlF)
673
Its so good to know Obama has successfully handled a 19th Century political issue. 21st Century issues - not so much. Yeah, intellectual and progressive.
Posted by: Super Creepy Eric Hoteham at June 22, 2015 05:24 PM (oDCMR)
674
At some point, the living need to bury the dead, you
know. You can't keep going on forever making excuses for slavery just
because of the (egotistical) line of pride extending back to your
great-great-great-granddaddy.
Posted by: ace at June 22, 2015 05:09 PM (bhepQ)
And yet, somehow it is totes acceptable having people pleading offense over slavery, Jim Crow, segregation, etc. that never happened to them.
know. You can't keep going on forever making excuses for slavery just
because of the (egotistical) line of pride extending back to your
great-great-great-granddaddy.
Posted by: ace at June 22, 2015 05:09 PM (bhepQ)
And yet, somehow it is totes acceptable having people pleading offense over slavery, Jim Crow, segregation, etc. that never happened to them.
Posted by: flounder at June 22, 2015 05:24 PM (Vf5rR)
675
Ace, you are focusing on slavery, which was obviously a bad thing.
But I think what you miss is the suffering of the average southerner under reconstruction and the fallout from the war. That is the sort of thing people also remember for generations.
But I think what you miss is the suffering of the average southerner under reconstruction and the fallout from the war. That is the sort of thing people also remember for generations.
Posted by: Le-a is on a boat, MFers! at June 22, 2015 05:25 PM (me04d)
676
I just with southerners would stop fighting the war and try to remember that this is one country
Does *anyone* actually believe that?
Does *anyone* actually believe that?
Posted by: Methos at June 22, 2015 05:25 PM (ZbV+0)
677
659 @626
You should come to Texas.
We have trucks here that called the "Texas Edition" and "Texas-Sized" everything. My friends from Mississippi don't get that. I don't understand living in an inferior state.
----
Heh. I'm from Texas (born in Lubbock, y'all), have lived here my whole life apart from a year of stupidity, and I still don't get Texas edition, Texas size, all that.
You should come to Texas.
We have trucks here that called the "Texas Edition" and "Texas-Sized" everything. My friends from Mississippi don't get that. I don't understand living in an inferior state.
----
Heh. I'm from Texas (born in Lubbock, y'all), have lived here my whole life apart from a year of stupidity, and I still don't get Texas edition, Texas size, all that.
Posted by: Jenny Hates Her Phone at June 22, 2015 05:25 PM (nQW20)
678
>>but we didn't talk about removing mosques from boston.
Sure we did. And in other places too. Stopping the mosque in NYC, which I am reliably told on this blog all the time is the root of all evil, was a national imperative.
Sure we did. And in other places too. Stopping the mosque in NYC, which I am reliably told on this blog all the time is the root of all evil, was a national imperative.
Posted by: JackStraw at June 22, 2015 05:26 PM (g1DWB)
679
670 >>>Yeah because all us Southern folks want to do is put them coloreds in the back of the bus.
I say we ban buses! Or at least, the back of buses. The undercarriage of buses?
----------------------
Buses are the leading cause of black obesity. Someone tell Michelle.
I say we ban buses! Or at least, the back of buses. The undercarriage of buses?
----------------------
Buses are the leading cause of black obesity. Someone tell Michelle.
Posted by: Super Creepy Eric Hoteham at June 22, 2015 05:26 PM (oDCMR)
680
South Carolina elected Lindsay Graham. What the hell do they have to proud of?
Posted by: Adirondack Patriot at June 22, 2015 05:26 PM (PcNS8)
681
They shouldn't take down the flag to appease the left, or because of the recent murders.
They should take it down because it's the right thing to do.
There's something wrong with anyone who looks back on the Confederacy with pride. That "something" is usually little more than willful ignorance of history, but the fact remains- if not for the desire to continue the injustice of slavery, there Conferderacy and Civil War would not have existed.
Taking down that flag isn't a mistake. Having adopted it as a symbol of regional pride in the first place was.
They should take it down because it's the right thing to do.
There's something wrong with anyone who looks back on the Confederacy with pride. That "something" is usually little more than willful ignorance of history, but the fact remains- if not for the desire to continue the injustice of slavery, there Conferderacy and Civil War would not have existed.
Taking down that flag isn't a mistake. Having adopted it as a symbol of regional pride in the first place was.
Posted by: Hollowpoint at June 22, 2015 05:26 PM (BL2iu)
682
661 Posted by: avi at June 22, 2015 05:22 PM (4bND1)
I was at AAFES this afternoon and got to see Wolf "Whiplash" Blitzer implying the GOP had to answer for Dickless Wonder the Church Shooter in a way I recall his rejecting collective guilt for Islam with 3,200 dead...
I'm certain Mau Mau is right if we just cave this one more time the left will start being sane.
I was at AAFES this afternoon and got to see Wolf "Whiplash" Blitzer implying the GOP had to answer for Dickless Wonder the Church Shooter in a way I recall his rejecting collective guilt for Islam with 3,200 dead...
I'm certain Mau Mau is right if we just cave this one more time the left will start being sane.
Posted by: Sven S Blade a.k.a. El Assassin@sven10077 at June 22, 2015 05:26 PM (/4AZU)
683
Posted by: JackStraw at June 22, 2015 05:17 PM (g1DWB)
I've lived in both the North and the South. Northerners don't know Jack shit about the South. They definitely think they are superior but maybe because they're mostly liberal.
I've lived in both the North and the South. Northerners don't know Jack shit about the South. They definitely think they are superior but maybe because they're mostly liberal.
Posted by: Cruzinator at June 22, 2015 05:26 PM (yCkeu)
684
Yon honest non-slaving owning cracker who just
fought against Northern aggression did. That's why he took service
under a plantation owner and as soon as he got the vote, voted to keep
Negroes out of office forever.
Posted by: Chris Balsz
Plenty of yon honest non-slave owning Northern aggressors were also very much hip and keen on the "lesser man" status of blacks as well, and held a very low opinion of them.
fought against Northern aggression did. That's why he took service
under a plantation owner and as soon as he got the vote, voted to keep
Negroes out of office forever.
Posted by: Chris Balsz
Plenty of yon honest non-slave owning Northern aggressors were also very much hip and keen on the "lesser man" status of blacks as well, and held a very low opinion of them.
Posted by: Moderate Salami at June 22, 2015 05:26 PM (/Ho8c)
685
They're gonna put ya'll back in chains!!!!
Posted by: Joe Biden at June 22, 2015 05:26 PM (FsuaD)
686
Posted by: HUCK / AKIN 2016 at June 22, 2015 05:23 PM (0LHZx)
I'd fly it just to keep your ass 1500 miles away.
I'd fly it just to keep your ass 1500 miles away.
Posted by: Golfman at June 22, 2015 05:26 PM (48QDY)
687
The way the church and the family members of the victims have responded to the shooting is pretty much the height of Christian charity. While this flag side show is annoying, the members of the SC black community should receive nothing but praise.
Posted by: Lauren at June 22, 2015 05:19 PM (MYCIw)
Showing that they realize the ultimate superficiality of race, and that their true family is the body of Christ. In which, as the Apostle Paul said, there is no Greek or Jew, male or female. We are all one in Christ's body. And in eternity, there will be a multitude of people of all peoples and nations worshipping the eternal God.
And all people are made in God's image and are equally valuable. Yes, SJWs, even straight white males.
The way the church and the family members of the victims have responded to the shooting is pretty much the height of Christian charity. While this flag side show is annoying, the members of the SC black community should receive nothing but praise.
Posted by: Lauren at June 22, 2015 05:19 PM (MYCIw)
Showing that they realize the ultimate superficiality of race, and that their true family is the body of Christ. In which, as the Apostle Paul said, there is no Greek or Jew, male or female. We are all one in Christ's body. And in eternity, there will be a multitude of people of all peoples and nations worshipping the eternal God.
And all people are made in God's image and are equally valuable. Yes, SJWs, even straight white males.
Posted by: chique d'afrique (the artist formerly known as african chick) at June 22, 2015 05:27 PM (shFKH)
688
And yet, somehow it is totes acceptable having
people pleading offense over slavery, Jim Crow, segregation, etc. that
never happened to them.
Posted by: flounder at June 22, 2015 05:24 PM
If you're going to Bury the Dead, you are obligated to bury ALL of them.
No special exceptions for Oppressed Minorities.
people pleading offense over slavery, Jim Crow, segregation, etc. that
never happened to them.
Posted by: flounder at June 22, 2015 05:24 PM
If you're going to Bury the Dead, you are obligated to bury ALL of them.
No special exceptions for Oppressed Minorities.
Posted by: MrScribbler at June 22, 2015 05:27 PM (P8YHq)
689
681 They shouldn't take down the flag to appease the left, or because of the recent murders.
They should take it down because it's the right thing to do.
There's something wrong with anyone who looks back on the Confederacy with pride. That "something" is usually little more than willful ignorance of history, but the fact remains- if not for the desire to continue the injustice of slavery, there Conferderacy and Civil War would not have existed.
Taking down that flag isn't a mistake. Having adopted it as a symbol of regional pride in the first place was.
----
This is just worth repeating
They should take it down because it's the right thing to do.
There's something wrong with anyone who looks back on the Confederacy with pride. That "something" is usually little more than willful ignorance of history, but the fact remains- if not for the desire to continue the injustice of slavery, there Conferderacy and Civil War would not have existed.
Taking down that flag isn't a mistake. Having adopted it as a symbol of regional pride in the first place was.
----
This is just worth repeating
Posted by: Jenny Hates Her Phone at June 22, 2015 05:27 PM (nQW20)
690
There were free blacks in the slave states. In fact, the first recorded slave owner in America was a free black man.
Posted by: torquewrench at June 22, 2015 05:22 PM (noWW6)
I think there are even some here, that cannot accept that.
Because, pUbLic sKooL.
Posted by: torquewrench at June 22, 2015 05:22 PM (noWW6)
I think there are even some here, that cannot accept that.
Because, pUbLic sKooL.
Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Suntanning in Bizzaro World at June 22, 2015 05:27 PM (CFcIt)
691
Just use the Gadsden flag, same message, no slavery.
The racism goalposts have been moved to engulf that image years ago in academia. so try to act surprised when that yellow scourge is decried in the near future.
The racism goalposts have been moved to engulf that image years ago in academia. so try to act surprised when that yellow scourge is decried in the near future.
Posted by: derit at June 22, 2015 05:27 PM (jT+gh)
Posted by: gman at June 22, 2015 05:28 PM (nPdsm)
693
Well guys, since Ace has become the great emancipator, I think I'll go home and have a drink.
Posted by: Super Creepy Eric Hoteham at June 22, 2015 05:28 PM (oDCMR)
694
Southerners will stop fighting the Civil War when Northerners quit starting new offensives.
Posted by: Brother Cavil, down with Eph 6:12 at June 22, 2015 05:28 PM (2l5vw)
695
I'm here to stir up some shit! Au contraire! Oooops...brb...Brinks truck in the driveway.
Posted by: Mr. Foo Foo at June 22, 2015 05:28 PM (Dwehj)
696
American slavery was the forcible subjugation of an entire race as less than human.
By less than 5 % of Southerners in the 1860s.
Kind of like blaming all whites for the crimes of the Clinton Foundation because WHITE.
Collective guilt and blame is FUN
By less than 5 % of Southerners in the 1860s.
Kind of like blaming all whites for the crimes of the Clinton Foundation because WHITE.
Collective guilt and blame is FUN
Posted by: some random meathead - if you're not drinking, you're not paying attention at June 22, 2015 05:28 PM (GxHdH)
697
Okay, we're past the Post of the Beast.
Please, let us have a new thread. We've re-fought the Civil War enough times on this site.
Please, let us have a new thread. We've re-fought the Civil War enough times on this site.
Posted by: logprof at June 22, 2015 05:28 PM (DgSC4)
698
>>I've lived in both the North and the South. Northerners don't know Jack shit about the South. They definitely think they are superior but maybe because they're mostly liberal.
Me too. And it goes both ways. And if you don't agree, bless your heart.
Me too. And it goes both ways. And if you don't agree, bless your heart.
Posted by: JackStraw at June 22, 2015 05:28 PM (g1DWB)
Posted by: dogfish at June 22, 2015 05:28 PM (jWtyG)
700
Hey how about them Knicks?
Posted by: Nevergiveup at June 22, 2015 05:29 PM (wq4B0)
701
680
South Carolina elected Lindsay Graham. What the hell do they have to proud of?
Posted by: Adirondack Patriot at June 22, 2015 05:26 PM (PcNS
I guess you've missed Tim Scott (R), black senator and "Uncle Tom" according to the left.
South Carolina elected Lindsay Graham. What the hell do they have to proud of?
Posted by: Adirondack Patriot at June 22, 2015 05:26 PM (PcNS
I guess you've missed Tim Scott (R), black senator and "Uncle Tom" according to the left.
Posted by: Jane D'oh at June 22, 2015 05:29 PM (FsuaD)
702
Posted by: JackStraw at June 22, 2015 05:26 PM (g1DWB)
No not about mosques in NY but a specific mosque at ground zero. But you knew what you were doing.
No not about mosques in NY but a specific mosque at ground zero. But you knew what you were doing.
Posted by: Cruzinator at June 22, 2015 05:29 PM (yCkeu)
703
...And everyone trying to make the civil war a "black and white" slavery v non slavery moral thing...
I don't know. I don't buy it.
I've read a lot of journals kept by soldiers on both sides. Very little mention of slavery.
Mostly the "hoorah" from Union soldiers about keeping the country together and defeating the traitors, and the same kind of "hoorah" from southerners trying to defend their home state against the invading Yankees.
To some the war was about slavery. But for most... I think the tensions had been bubbling for a LONG time.
I don't know. I don't buy it.
I've read a lot of journals kept by soldiers on both sides. Very little mention of slavery.
Mostly the "hoorah" from Union soldiers about keeping the country together and defeating the traitors, and the same kind of "hoorah" from southerners trying to defend their home state against the invading Yankees.
To some the war was about slavery. But for most... I think the tensions had been bubbling for a LONG time.
Posted by: mynewhandle at June 22, 2015 05:29 PM (AkOaV)
704
Next week we should read Brautigan's, ' A Confederate General From Big Sur', for the Book Club.
Posted by: Garrett at June 22, 2015 05:29 PM (G3txG)
705
Like Michelle Obama, sage of the ages, said, we need a new history. I wonder if the flag-banning brigade has considered how many books may have illustrations of the Confederate flag in them or on their covers. Gonna have to burn those nasty books, too, right?
Posted by: Lincolntf at June 22, 2015 05:29 PM (tvQwu)
706
Like Michelle Obama, sage of the ages, said, we need a new history. I wonder if the flag-banning brigade has considered how many books may have illustrations of the Confederate flag in them or on their covers. Gonna have to burn those nasty books, too, right?
Posted by: Lincolntf at June 22, 2015 05:29 PM (tvQwu)
707
Posted by: HUCK / AKIN 2016 at June 22, 2015 05:23 PM (0LHZx)
I guess you'll never find a Confederate battle flag painted on the roof of the Moo Moo limousine then.
I guess you'll never find a Confederate battle flag painted on the roof of the Moo Moo limousine then.
Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at June 22, 2015 05:29 PM (8ZskC)
Posted by: DaveA at June 22, 2015 05:29 PM (DL2i+)
709
The whole "we should honor the Confederate dead" thing was always a polite fiction to enable the rebuilding of the country. We should be grown up enough about it now to admit there was nothing honorable or noble about the confederacy.
That would be reason enough to consign that flag to the dustbin of history. The reality is though this modern version of the battle flag as "cultural pride" dates back to the 50s and 60s when it was reinvented as a symbol of opposition to integration, so yeah, get it the fuck out of any public place of honor.
That would be reason enough to consign that flag to the dustbin of history. The reality is though this modern version of the battle flag as "cultural pride" dates back to the 50s and 60s when it was reinvented as a symbol of opposition to integration, so yeah, get it the fuck out of any public place of honor.
Posted by: DrewM. at June 22, 2015 05:29 PM (vUom4)
710
Plenty of yon honest non-slave owning Northern aggressors were also very
much hip and keen on the "lesser man" status of blacks as well, and
held a very low opinion of them.
Murdered a few of them, too.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City_draft_riots
much hip and keen on the "lesser man" status of blacks as well, and
held a very low opinion of them.
Murdered a few of them, too.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City_draft_riots
Posted by: HR braucht ein Bier at June 22, 2015 05:29 PM (ZKzrr)
711
There were free blacks in the slave states. In fact, the first recorded slave owner in America was a free black man.
Posted by: torquewrench at June 22, 2015 05:22 PM (noWW6)
I stand corrected. But can you deny the overwhelming racial element of slavery? That was my point.
Posted by: torquewrench at June 22, 2015 05:22 PM (noWW6)
I stand corrected. But can you deny the overwhelming racial element of slavery? That was my point.
Posted by: chique d'afrique (the artist formerly known as african chick) at June 22, 2015 05:30 PM (shFKH)
712
By less than 5 % of Southerners in the 1860s.
Posted by: some random meathead - if you're not drinking, you're not paying attention at June 22, 2015 05:28 PM (GxHdH)
_____________
5% owned slaves. And what % of men fought in the war to keep slavery? A hell of a lot more than 5%?
Just quit this nonsense.
Posted by: some random meathead - if you're not drinking, you're not paying attention at June 22, 2015 05:28 PM (GxHdH)
_____________
5% owned slaves. And what % of men fought in the war to keep slavery? A hell of a lot more than 5%?
Just quit this nonsense.
Posted by: HUCK / AKIN 2016 at June 22, 2015 05:30 PM (0LHZx)
713
680
South Carolina elected Lindsay Graham. What the hell do they have to proud of?
Posted by: Adirondack Patriot at June 22, 2015 05:26 PM (PcNS
What's that, Miss Schumer?
South Carolina elected Lindsay Graham. What the hell do they have to proud of?
Posted by: Adirondack Patriot at June 22, 2015 05:26 PM (PcNS
What's that, Miss Schumer?
Posted by: BignJames at June 22, 2015 05:30 PM (HtUkt)
Posted by: Golfman at June 22, 2015 05:30 PM (48QDY)
715
double post Sorry, hotel wifi has my tablet all hinky.
Posted by: Lincolntf at June 22, 2015 05:30 PM (tvQwu)
Posted by: The Great White Snark at June 22, 2015 05:30 PM (XUKZU)
717
As a born and bred southern conservative, I've long argued that the point of a flag is to have a symbol to rally around. A flag that is divisive to its citizens then is not a good flag. The confederate battle flag is divisive, QED, it is bad and should not be a symbol associated with the South Carolina state house or other government sanctioned location.
Posted by: Ian Deal at June 22, 2015 05:30 PM (QgD01)
718
Moo Moo knows what he's talking about. His ACW ancestor hired an Irish replacement. You can do that when you're rich.
Posted by: andycanuck at June 22, 2015 05:30 PM (kivUY)
719
Alexander Hamilton was GOPe in that he was a bastard.
Posted by: Boss Moss at June 22, 2015 05:30 PM (SXQcx)
720
Posted by: JackStraw at June 22, 2015 05:28 PM (g1DWB)
I'm a Yankee, but I lived briefly in the south amongst some "good old boys" old money southern types.
Changed my perspective of the South immensely.
I'm a Yankee, but I lived briefly in the south amongst some "good old boys" old money southern types.
Changed my perspective of the South immensely.
Posted by: mynewhandle at June 22, 2015 05:31 PM (AkOaV)
721
>>No not about mosques in NY but a specific mosque at ground zero. But you knew what you were doing.
And this entire discussion is about removing the Confederate flag from one place, the South Carolina state house, despite some peoples desire to make this about abolishing the flag everywhere. But you knew what you were doing.
And this entire discussion is about removing the Confederate flag from one place, the South Carolina state house, despite some peoples desire to make this about abolishing the flag everywhere. But you knew what you were doing.
Posted by: JackStraw at June 22, 2015 05:31 PM (g1DWB)
722
I'm just going to point out here in fidelity to the facts that "an
entire race" was not forcibly subjugated in the American system of
slavery.
There were free blacks in the slave states. In fact, the first recorded slave owner in America was a free black man.
I think there were still some Africans left in Africa, too.
entire race" was not forcibly subjugated in the American system of
slavery.
There were free blacks in the slave states. In fact, the first recorded slave owner in America was a free black man.
I think there were still some Africans left in Africa, too.
Posted by: Methos at June 22, 2015 05:31 PM (ZbV+0)
723
To some the war was about slavery. But for most... I think the tensions had been bubbling for a LONG time.
Posted by: mynewhandle at June 22, 2015 05:29 PM (AkOaV)
Yes, seems vaguely like current events (or maybe not so vaguely).
Posted by: mynewhandle at June 22, 2015 05:29 PM (AkOaV)
Yes, seems vaguely like current events (or maybe not so vaguely).
Posted by: maddogg at June 22, 2015 05:31 PM (xWW96)
724
Things that will, by themselves, immeasurably improve the Plight of the Black Man:
1.) Giving the right to vote
2.) Desegregation
3.) Seemingly endless amounts of welfare $$
4.) Electing a "black" President
5.) Removing a CSA flag from a State House
6.) Electing a black President
7.) Giving thugs a "safe space to destroy"
8.) Removing a CSA flag from a Civil War Memorial
9.) ???
1.) Giving the right to vote
2.) Desegregation
3.) Seemingly endless amounts of welfare $$
4.) Electing a "black" President
5.) Removing a CSA flag from a State House
6.) Electing a black President
7.) Giving thugs a "safe space to destroy"
8.) Removing a CSA flag from a Civil War Memorial
9.) ???
Posted by: Mickey Shwarma at June 22, 2015 05:31 PM (sCHw2)
725
This is too stupid to read and listen to any further so I don't.
Skipped the whole fucking thing.
The left had this issue locked and loaded for the next incident. One has nothing to do with the other. The only reason the subject is discussed is their neurotic incessant demands.
How I despise those damaged people so emotionally wrapped up in what other people do that they have no intention of being involved with and know only from a distance. Control freaks who use government to dominate others with their feels. Piss completely off.
Damaged and toxic Little sister is not to be entertained. Never. Doing so is weakness. Always. Conceding an inch costs a mile, deranged demands never cease and giving in invites more. Always.
This could have waited, if they must, until disconnected with the incident and not a concession to the crackpot demanding ever aggressively offended left.
Nikki Haley is wrong. And stupid. For doing this now.
Skipped the whole fucking thing.
The left had this issue locked and loaded for the next incident. One has nothing to do with the other. The only reason the subject is discussed is their neurotic incessant demands.
How I despise those damaged people so emotionally wrapped up in what other people do that they have no intention of being involved with and know only from a distance. Control freaks who use government to dominate others with their feels. Piss completely off.
Damaged and toxic Little sister is not to be entertained. Never. Doing so is weakness. Always. Conceding an inch costs a mile, deranged demands never cease and giving in invites more. Always.
This could have waited, if they must, until disconnected with the incident and not a concession to the crackpot demanding ever aggressively offended left.
Nikki Haley is wrong. And stupid. For doing this now.
Posted by: bour3 at June 22, 2015 05:31 PM (5x3+2)
726
Everything I know about the South I learned from Bugs Bunny and the Food Network.
Posted by: Garrett at June 22, 2015 05:31 PM (G3txG)
727
I just with southerners would stop fighting the war and try to remember that this is one country.
YOU SLAY ME !!!
YOU SLAY ME !!!
Posted by: Strawmen United for Butthurt at June 22, 2015 05:31 PM (GxHdH)
728
Alexander Hamilton was GOPe in that he was a bastard.
Pfft. The GOP needs more bastard and less bitches.
Pfft. The GOP needs more bastard and less bitches.
Posted by: Brother Cavil, down with Eph 6:12 at June 22, 2015 05:32 PM (2l5vw)
Posted by: Weasel at June 22, 2015 05:32 PM (e3bId)
730
There were free blacks in the slave states. In fact, the first recorded slave owner in America was a free black man.
It was worse than that.
Anthony Johnson actually sued in colonial court to keep John Casor as his slave, arguing that the oppressive English laws couldn't tell him, an African, that he couldn't have slaves.
He argued that slavery was an integral part of his culture.
It would be interesting if that case was the reason slavery had gotten a foothold in North America and perhaps it might not have been an institution by the time it was useful economically.
Basically, multiculturalism created slavery.
It was worse than that.
Anthony Johnson actually sued in colonial court to keep John Casor as his slave, arguing that the oppressive English laws couldn't tell him, an African, that he couldn't have slaves.
He argued that slavery was an integral part of his culture.
It would be interesting if that case was the reason slavery had gotten a foothold in North America and perhaps it might not have been an institution by the time it was useful economically.
Basically, multiculturalism created slavery.
Posted by: AmishDude at June 22, 2015 05:32 PM (JIElb)
731
174
Posted by: Gmac- Pulling in feelers in preperation... at June 22, 2015 04:08 PM (4CRfK)
Oh, so the meeting at Appomattox Court House was just a friendly gathering of West Point alums?
Nothing else happened there?
Posted by: mynewhandle
History, read what happened.
Free hint: Lee met Grant at the Church and surrendered the colors and his sword, not under a white flag. There are several different sources that recount the occurrence, among them Lee and Grant.
Posted by: Gmac- Pulling in feelers in preperation... at June 22, 2015 04:08 PM (4CRfK)
Oh, so the meeting at Appomattox Court House was just a friendly gathering of West Point alums?
Nothing else happened there?
Posted by: mynewhandle
History, read what happened.
Free hint: Lee met Grant at the Church and surrendered the colors and his sword, not under a white flag. There are several different sources that recount the occurrence, among them Lee and Grant.
Posted by: Gmac- Pulling in feelers in preperation... at June 22, 2015 05:32 PM (4CRfK)
732
Mr. Oink Oink is talking out of the wrong hole again. Get back to your piece work serf.
Posted by: Boss Moss at June 22, 2015 05:32 PM (SXQcx)
733
Posted by: JackStraw at June 22, 2015 05:28 PM (g1DWB)
You're lying if you're telling me that the Southern people you've met thought they were superior to you. I'm sure they threw some cousin fucking jokes your way too.
You're lying if you're telling me that the Southern people you've met thought they were superior to you. I'm sure they threw some cousin fucking jokes your way too.
Posted by: Cruzinator at June 22, 2015 05:32 PM (yCkeu)
734
We should be grown up enough about it now to admit there was nothing honorable or noble about the confederacy.
????
Yeah right? So every southerner was piece of shit and only fought keep Slaves? Yeah I am not going to buy that and that is quite a bullshit statement.
????
Yeah right? So every southerner was piece of shit and only fought keep Slaves? Yeah I am not going to buy that and that is quite a bullshit statement.
Posted by: Nevergiveup at June 22, 2015 05:32 PM (wq4B0)
735
Taking down that flag isn't a mistake. Having adopted it as a symbol of regional pride in the first place was.
Posted by: Hollowpoint at June 22, 2015 05:26 PM (BL2iu)
-----------------------------------------
Why don't people like you just butt out and leave that question to the people of that particular state. The terms referring to "sovereign states" in the Constitution still mean something to many of us.
Posted by: Hollowpoint at June 22, 2015 05:26 PM (BL2iu)
-----------------------------------------
Why don't people like you just butt out and leave that question to the people of that particular state. The terms referring to "sovereign states" in the Constitution still mean something to many of us.
Posted by: Soona at June 22, 2015 05:32 PM (P25Hh)
736
726 Everything I know about the South I learned from Bugs Bunny and the Food Network.
---
You're not doing too bad, then.
I learned everything I know about the North from Friends.
---
You're not doing too bad, then.
I learned everything I know about the North from Friends.
Posted by: Jenny Hates Her Phone at June 22, 2015 05:32 PM (nQW20)
737
"Plenty of yon honest non-slave owning Northern aggressors were also very much hip and keen on the "lesser man" status of blacks as well, and held a very low opinion of them.
Posted by: Moderate Salami at June 22, 2015 05:26 PM (/Ho8c"
But their elected representatives guaranteed the integration of blacks into society as equals with whites, including holding public office.
If you go back and read what Confederates wrote about themselves, denying blacks those rights was a very big reason to separate Dixie from the mongrel North to the point of choosing a war.
Posted by: Moderate Salami at June 22, 2015 05:26 PM (/Ho8c"
But their elected representatives guaranteed the integration of blacks into society as equals with whites, including holding public office.
If you go back and read what Confederates wrote about themselves, denying blacks those rights was a very big reason to separate Dixie from the mongrel North to the point of choosing a war.
Posted by: Chris Balsz at June 22, 2015 05:32 PM (8rRE+)
738
meh, this all arranging deck chairs on Titanic once ISIS starts demolishing historical US monuments and documents.
Posted by: joe-impeachin44 at June 22, 2015 05:33 PM (Iv/Hw)
739
694 Southerners will stop fighting the Civil War when Northerners quit starting new offensives.
Posted by: Brother Cavil, down with Eph 6:12 at June 22, 2015 05:28 PM (2l5vw)
From someone who's been on both sides of that fence, the only people re-fighting the Civil War are the Northern Leftists.
That shit, as far as your everyday joe six pack was concerned, was done long ago.
Posted by: Brother Cavil, down with Eph 6:12 at June 22, 2015 05:28 PM (2l5vw)
From someone who's been on both sides of that fence, the only people re-fighting the Civil War are the Northern Leftists.
That shit, as far as your everyday joe six pack was concerned, was done long ago.
Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Suntanning in Bizzaro World at June 22, 2015 05:33 PM (CFcIt)
740
5% owned slaves. And what % of men fought in the war to keep slavery? A hell of a lot more than 5%?
Just quit this nonsense.
Posted by: HUCK / AKIN 2016 at June 22, 2015 05:30 PM (0LHZx)
Moo,
Neither Lincoln nor Davis would have been able to raise the huge armies that they did if the soldiers thought they were fighting for or against slavery.
While that issue had primacy for some, contemporaneous writings tend to suggest it didn't for most.
Just quit this nonsense.
Posted by: HUCK / AKIN 2016 at June 22, 2015 05:30 PM (0LHZx)
Moo,
Neither Lincoln nor Davis would have been able to raise the huge armies that they did if the soldiers thought they were fighting for or against slavery.
While that issue had primacy for some, contemporaneous writings tend to suggest it didn't for most.
Posted by: mynewhandle at June 22, 2015 05:33 PM (AkOaV)
741
Posted by: Bawney Fwank
How many flags do I have to burn to unsee what you did there?
Posted by: DaveA at June 22, 2015 05:29 PM
Sacred Moron Honor compelled me no to waste a good feeder line like that.
How many flags do I have to burn to unsee what you did there?
Posted by: DaveA at June 22, 2015 05:29 PM
Sacred Moron Honor compelled me no to waste a good feeder line like that.
Posted by: RedMindBlueState at June 22, 2015 05:33 PM (h4vJk)
742
They'll have to change Gone With the Wind to a story about a family trying to survive in a world devastated by global warming.
Posted by: The Great White Snark at June 22, 2015 05:33 PM (XUKZU)
743
OK, SC gets the fucking flag off the grounds of the state capitol, like they should have done long ago, and everybody's happy, right? SC backs down from a stupid-ass position, and loses with dignity intact and we all move on, great.
Just asking, will the left show the same 'lose with dignity' class when King v. Burwell comes down?
Just asking, will the left show the same 'lose with dignity' class when King v. Burwell comes down?
Posted by: George Tirebiter at June 22, 2015 05:33 PM (/zyrl)
744
To some the war was about slavery. But for most... I think the tensions had been bubbling for a LONG time.
Posted by: mynewhandle
Based on the sources I've read, I agree. And, again, in my opinion, the fundamental disagreement was over power in general, and the power of the States vs. the central government specifically. Slavery was the bone of contention, but not the fundamental issue.
Posted by: mynewhandle
Based on the sources I've read, I agree. And, again, in my opinion, the fundamental disagreement was over power in general, and the power of the States vs. the central government specifically. Slavery was the bone of contention, but not the fundamental issue.
Posted by: Moderate Salami at June 22, 2015 05:33 PM (/Ho8c)
Posted by: Lauren at June 22, 2015 05:34 PM (MYCIw)
746
The way the church and the family members of the victims have responded
to the shooting is pretty much the height of Christian charity. While
this flag side show is annoying, the members of the SC black community
should receive nothing but praise.
Posted by: Lauren at June 22, 2015 05:19 PM (MYCIw)
Agreed. I heard sound bites from the pastor of the church where the atack occurred. They reopened Sunday, business as usual; he refused to let evil prevent his flock from partaking in the gospel.
I'm horrible at paraphrasing, but what I did hear from him I loved. Bless these good people.
to the shooting is pretty much the height of Christian charity. While
this flag side show is annoying, the members of the SC black community
should receive nothing but praise.
Posted by: Lauren at June 22, 2015 05:19 PM (MYCIw)
Agreed. I heard sound bites from the pastor of the church where the atack occurred. They reopened Sunday, business as usual; he refused to let evil prevent his flock from partaking in the gospel.
I'm horrible at paraphrasing, but what I did hear from him I loved. Bless these good people.
Posted by: LizLem at June 22, 2015 05:34 PM (hvf9s)
747
"Why don't people like you just butt out and leave that question to the people of that particular state. The terms referring to "sovereign states" in the Constitution still mean something to many of us."
You lost the war, for one thing.
You lost the war, for one thing.
Posted by: Chris Balsz at June 22, 2015 05:34 PM (8rRE+)
748
"Why don't people like you just butt out and leave that question to the people of that particular state. The terms referring to "sovereign states" in the Constitution still mean something to many of us."
You lost the war, for one thing.
You lost the war, for one thing.
Posted by: Chris Balsz at June 22, 2015 05:34 PM (8rRE+)
749
By less than 5 % of Southerners in the 1860s.
Kind of like blaming all whites for the crimes of the Clinton Foundation because WHITE.
Collective guilt and blame is FUN
Posted by: some random meathead - if you're not drinking, you're not paying attention at June 22, 2015 05:28 PM (GxHdH)
Please point out where I blame anyone alive today for slavery or hold them in anyway guilty. I am the first person to reject slavery as the reason why so much of the "black community" is messed up.
Kind of like blaming all whites for the crimes of the Clinton Foundation because WHITE.
Collective guilt and blame is FUN
Posted by: some random meathead - if you're not drinking, you're not paying attention at June 22, 2015 05:28 PM (GxHdH)
Please point out where I blame anyone alive today for slavery or hold them in anyway guilty. I am the first person to reject slavery as the reason why so much of the "black community" is messed up.
Posted by: chique d'afrique (the artist formerly known as african chick) at June 22, 2015 05:34 PM (shFKH)
750
As a born and bred southern conservative, I've long argued that the point of a flag is to have a symbol to rally around. A flag that is divisive to its citizens then is not a good flag. The confederate battle flag is divisive, QED, it is bad and should not be a symbol associated with the South Carolina state house or other government sanctioned location.
I'm sure the American flag was divisive to the Nazis and Commies, too.
The American flag is there for the American citizen to rally around. The CBF is there for the Southerner if he claims it.
I'm sure the American flag was divisive to the Nazis and Commies, too.
The American flag is there for the American citizen to rally around. The CBF is there for the Southerner if he claims it.
Posted by: ConservativeMonster at June 22, 2015 05:34 PM (0NdlF)
751
But can you deny the overwhelming racial element of slavery? That was my point.
Posted by: chique d'afrique (the artist formerly known as african chick) at June 22, 2015 05:30 PM
As it relates to U.S. history? Not at all.
But the paradigm shifts when one talks about slavery in the Orient, Middle East, Europe or Africa.
At some point, it appears every tribe, every nation and every race felt the need to have an "inferior" group to focus on. Hasn't always been the same group.
Posted by: chique d'afrique (the artist formerly known as african chick) at June 22, 2015 05:30 PM
As it relates to U.S. history? Not at all.
But the paradigm shifts when one talks about slavery in the Orient, Middle East, Europe or Africa.
At some point, it appears every tribe, every nation and every race felt the need to have an "inferior" group to focus on. Hasn't always been the same group.
Posted by: MrScribbler at June 22, 2015 05:34 PM (P8YHq)
752
Get rid of that pesty American Flag too....
Just run up the Hammer and Sickle with the Red Star
After all, that's Obama's favorite
Just run up the Hammer and Sickle with the Red Star
After all, that's Obama's favorite
Posted by: Mr Wizard at June 22, 2015 05:35 PM (eOpVe)
753
Posted by: JackStraw at June 22, 2015 05:31 PM (g1DWB)
You are naive if you think this is about abolishing the flag from a confederate memorial only.
You are naive if you think this is about abolishing the flag from a confederate memorial only.
Posted by: Cruzinator at June 22, 2015 05:35 PM (yCkeu)
754
Yeah right the North loved their Black Brothers?
I guess that is why the worst black ghettos are in the North?
I guess that is why the worst black ghettos are in the North?
Posted by: Nevergiveup at June 22, 2015 05:35 PM (wq4B0)
755
> this is a very racial-tribal answer.
In other words, you don't have an answer to black-on-white violence, but you do have a great solution for caving in to pressure from the Left!
In other words, you don't have an answer to black-on-white violence, but you do have a great solution for caving in to pressure from the Left!
Posted by: Justfactualthings at June 22, 2015 05:35 PM (oCxXI)
756
including holding public office.
If you go back and read what Confederates wrote about themselves, denying blacks those rights was a very big reason to separate Dixie from the mongrel North to the point of choosing a war.
Posted by: Chris Balsz at June 22, 2015 05:32 PM (8rRE+)
You're going to have to cite some sources on that. Lincoln NEVER came out against slavery, much less FOR allowing blacks to run for office, and even the emancipation proclamation was a military move -- it freed exactly zero slaves.
Now, the "radical republicans" were a different story. But they were not in the majority at that time.
If you go back and read what Confederates wrote about themselves, denying blacks those rights was a very big reason to separate Dixie from the mongrel North to the point of choosing a war.
Posted by: Chris Balsz at June 22, 2015 05:32 PM (8rRE+)
You're going to have to cite some sources on that. Lincoln NEVER came out against slavery, much less FOR allowing blacks to run for office, and even the emancipation proclamation was a military move -- it freed exactly zero slaves.
Now, the "radical republicans" were a different story. But they were not in the majority at that time.
Posted by: mynewhandle at June 22, 2015 05:35 PM (AkOaV)
757
Everything I know about the South I learned from Bugs Bunny and the Food Network.
You never heard The Band sing "The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down"?
You never heard The Band sing "The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down"?
Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at June 22, 2015 05:35 PM (8ZskC)
758
Nikki Haley is wrong. And stupid. For doing this now.
Posted by: bour3 at June 22, 2015 05:31 PM (5x3+2)
*ding!* *ding!* *ding!*
Posted by: bour3 at June 22, 2015 05:31 PM (5x3+2)
*ding!* *ding!* *ding!*
Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Suntanning in Bizzaro World at June 22, 2015 05:35 PM (CFcIt)
759
There is precedent for secession established in the Declaration of Independence.
Posted by: Boss Moss at June 22, 2015 05:35 PM (SXQcx)
760
We have a thousand peach trees on the Moo Plantation East.
Posted by: Mr. Foo Foo at June 22, 2015 05:35 PM (Dwehj)
761
And what % of men fought in the war to keep slavery?
Because the UNITED STATES SOUTHERNERS INVENTED TEH SLAVERY AND it is NOWHERE ELSE IN HISTORY .
You are as stupid as you are arrogant.
States rights, dumbfuck.
Maybe you have heard of them?
Funny how NONE of the Unionist defenders want to admit that your current Socialist asshole president is where he is today because of Lincoln's imperialism.
Congratulations on your 'win'.
Because the UNITED STATES SOUTHERNERS INVENTED TEH SLAVERY AND it is NOWHERE ELSE IN HISTORY .
You are as stupid as you are arrogant.
States rights, dumbfuck.
Maybe you have heard of them?
Funny how NONE of the Unionist defenders want to admit that your current Socialist asshole president is where he is today because of Lincoln's imperialism.
Congratulations on your 'win'.
Posted by: Strawmen United for Butthurt at June 22, 2015 05:36 PM (GxHdH)
762
The whole "we should honor the Confederate dead" thing was always a polite fiction to enable the rebuilding of the country. We should be grown up enough about it now to admit there was nothing honorable or noble about the confederacy.
Posted by: DrewM. at June 22, 2015 05:29 PM (vUom4)
And this attitude is why there can never be amity. This childish, black-and-white, good-guys/bad-guys view of a much more complex situation. (Always pretty selective, of course - the Russians were great guys until AFTER they beat the Nazis). Even when lip service is paid to smooth over the old anger, you can rest assured that spite is simmering just below the surface.
Posted by: DrewM. at June 22, 2015 05:29 PM (vUom4)
And this attitude is why there can never be amity. This childish, black-and-white, good-guys/bad-guys view of a much more complex situation. (Always pretty selective, of course - the Russians were great guys until AFTER they beat the Nazis). Even when lip service is paid to smooth over the old anger, you can rest assured that spite is simmering just below the surface.
Posted by: Reactionary at June 22, 2015 05:36 PM (TsW/N)
763
I agree with Nikki on this and believe that to take it down from the State House and leave it on memorials and/or private property is the right answer.
I don't see this as giving up to the left. I see it rather as removing something that is divisive and letting it be displayed in its proper place/s.
I believe that South Carolina does have its own state flag right? This is something that is easy to fix as God knows we have bigger issues at play.
I don't see this as giving up to the left. I see it rather as removing something that is divisive and letting it be displayed in its proper place/s.
I believe that South Carolina does have its own state flag right? This is something that is easy to fix as God knows we have bigger issues at play.
Posted by: Cheri at June 22, 2015 05:36 PM (ZFPMM)
764
You lost the war, for one thing.
Posted by: Chris Balsz at June 22, 2015 05:34 PM (8rRE+)
And the War Between the States put a stake through the heart of the republic. The federal government was to be supreme and the states were to be its vassals.
Posted by: Chris Balsz at June 22, 2015 05:34 PM (8rRE+)
And the War Between the States put a stake through the heart of the republic. The federal government was to be supreme and the states were to be its vassals.
Posted by: Insomniac at June 22, 2015 05:36 PM (2Ojst)
Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at June 22, 2015 05:36 PM (8ZskC)
766
>>You're lying if you're telling me that the Southern people you've met thought they were superior to you. I'm sure they threw some cousin fucking jokes your way too.
Are you high? Every day here is southern pride day. We are told that Yankees are scum, that anyone who lives in a blue state is a statist scum, that Texas and Texans are the only true conservatives and on and on.
Give it a rest. I don't give a shit where you live and I don't think any region is superior or inferior. What's more, I don't give a shit. It's a 3rd grade argument.
Are you high? Every day here is southern pride day. We are told that Yankees are scum, that anyone who lives in a blue state is a statist scum, that Texas and Texans are the only true conservatives and on and on.
Give it a rest. I don't give a shit where you live and I don't think any region is superior or inferior. What's more, I don't give a shit. It's a 3rd grade argument.
Posted by: JackStraw at June 22, 2015 05:36 PM (g1DWB)
767
742 They'll have to change Gone With the Wind to a story about a family trying to survive in a world devastated by global warming.
Posted by: The Great White Snark at June 22, 2015 05:33 PM (XUKZU)
Well, fiddle-de-de. It's Climate Change!
Posted by: The Great White Snark at June 22, 2015 05:33 PM (XUKZU)
Well, fiddle-de-de. It's Climate Change!
Posted by: Scarlett O'Gora at June 22, 2015 05:37 PM (CFcIt)
768
The flag, much like slavery in this modern day in America, is an historical artifact. Treat it as such.
Posted by: Fritz at June 22, 2015 05:37 PM (UzPAd)
769
Time to calm down... Everyone shake hands and apologize. 'Ettes, please show us your bewbs.
Posted by: Weasel at June 22, 2015 05:37 PM (e3bId)
770
More Americans died in The War of Northern Aggression that all the other wars we have fought COMBINED.
The flag will stay. It takes a 2/3's majority in BOTH house of the Assembly to remove it.
Not going to happen.
The flag will stay. It takes a 2/3's majority in BOTH house of the Assembly to remove it.
Not going to happen.
Posted by: Nip Sip at June 22, 2015 05:37 PM (0FSuD)
771
I keep mentioning the diary of Mary Chestnut, which is available for free online. And she was a companion to Jeff Davis' wife, so its not as if everybody hated her racist views but had to take her. They welcomed her for her company.
Posted by: Chris Balsz at June 22, 2015 05:37 PM (8rRE+)
772
All of us down at the Brattleboro Women's Reproductive Health Choice
Clinic think President Obama should order this now because it is insulting to peoples of all colors. This flag represents everything bad about Bush and all his friends too. Bush lied and we all paid for his stooped ideas and policies. We are proud of presdent Obama, so proud and he should redesign all state flags so as to not insult anyone of any color.
Clinic think President Obama should order this now because it is insulting to peoples of all colors. This flag represents everything bad about Bush and all his friends too. Bush lied and we all paid for his stooped ideas and policies. We are proud of presdent Obama, so proud and he should redesign all state flags so as to not insult anyone of any color.
Posted by: Mary Clogginstien from Brattleboro, Vt at June 22, 2015 05:37 PM (lNSdJ)
773
Ok, I now realize saying "an entire race " was clearly inaccurate. That is not what I meant. I guess I should have said "people of one race exclusively" or something like that. My bad.
Posted by: chique d'afrique (the artist formerly known as african chick) at June 22, 2015 05:37 PM (shFKH)
774
Quite a few Northerners get off on Otherizing Southerners and blaming them for ALL TEH SLAVERY .
Sad to to see ace join in the tribal witchhunt.
Sad to to see ace join in the tribal witchhunt.
Posted by: Strawmen United for Butthurt at June 22, 2015 05:38 PM (GxHdH)
775
The whole "we should honor the Confederate dead" thing was always a
polite fiction to enable the rebuilding of the country. We should be
grown up enough about it now to admit there was nothing honorable or
noble about the confederacy.
They were willing to fight.
That's worth honoring.
polite fiction to enable the rebuilding of the country. We should be
grown up enough about it now to admit there was nothing honorable or
noble about the confederacy.
They were willing to fight.
That's worth honoring.
Posted by: Methos at June 22, 2015 05:38 PM (ZbV+0)
776
Slavery was the bone of contention, but not the fundamental issue.
Posted by: Moderate Salami at June 22, 2015 05:33 PM (/Ho8c)
I'd say thats a fair summation.
If memory serves, Alabama was the only state to specifically mention slavery in their secession papers. Others kind of danced around it, others didnt mention it at all.
Posted by: Moderate Salami at June 22, 2015 05:33 PM (/Ho8c)
I'd say thats a fair summation.
If memory serves, Alabama was the only state to specifically mention slavery in their secession papers. Others kind of danced around it, others didnt mention it at all.
Posted by: mynewhandle at June 22, 2015 05:38 PM (AkOaV)
777
768 Posted by: Fritz at June 22, 2015 05:37 PM (UzPAd)
HEAR, HEAR!
Soon to be joined with by the Bill of Rights, the Constitution, and Old Glory mi amigo...
//Newer Better Americans
HEAR, HEAR!
Soon to be joined with by the Bill of Rights, the Constitution, and Old Glory mi amigo...
//Newer Better Americans
Posted by: Sven S Blade a.k.a. El Assassin@sven10077 at June 22, 2015 05:38 PM (/4AZU)
778
We should be grown up enough about it now to admit there was nothing honorable or noble about the confederacy.
Posted by: DrewM. at June 22, 2015 05:29 PM (vUom4)
And this attitude is why there can never be amity. This childish, black-and-white, good-guys/bad-guys view of a much more complex situation. (Always pretty selective, of course - the Russians were great guys until AFTER they beat the Nazis). Even when lip service is paid to smooth over the old anger, you can rest assured that spite is simmering just below the surface.
Posted by: Reactionary at June 22, 2015 05:36 PM (TsW/N)
exactly. That is one of the stupidest things Drew ever said
Posted by: DrewM. at June 22, 2015 05:29 PM (vUom4)
And this attitude is why there can never be amity. This childish, black-and-white, good-guys/bad-guys view of a much more complex situation. (Always pretty selective, of course - the Russians were great guys until AFTER they beat the Nazis). Even when lip service is paid to smooth over the old anger, you can rest assured that spite is simmering just below the surface.
Posted by: Reactionary at June 22, 2015 05:36 PM (TsW/N)
exactly. That is one of the stupidest things Drew ever said
Posted by: Nevergiveup at June 22, 2015 05:38 PM (wq4B0)
779
I keep mentioning the diary of Mary Chestnut, which
is available for free online. And she was a companion to Jeff Davis'
wife, so its not as if everybody hated her racist views but had to take
her. They welcomed her for her company.
Posted by: Chris Balsz
Racist views were commonplace both North and South. Refer to Sherman's writings. Refer to the New York draft riots. Many other examples.
is available for free online. And she was a companion to Jeff Davis'
wife, so its not as if everybody hated her racist views but had to take
her. They welcomed her for her company.
Posted by: Chris Balsz
Racist views were commonplace both North and South. Refer to Sherman's writings. Refer to the New York draft riots. Many other examples.
Posted by: Moderate Salami at June 22, 2015 05:38 PM (/Ho8c)
780
I have recanted on my earlier post in another thread today where I castigated Romney and others for asking for it to be taken down. I should have thought it through more clearly.
Posted by: Cheri at June 22, 2015 05:39 PM (ZFPMM)
Posted by: Strawmen United for Butthurt at June 22, 2015 05:39 PM (GxHdH)
782
775 Too bad they couldn't insult each other online instead of just building up outrage in the echo chamber to the point they would literally walk a thousand miles to shoot a man in the belly over it.
Posted by: Chris Balsz at June 22, 2015 05:39 PM (8rRE+)
783
If you folks think the left will stop with the state house, you haven't been paying attention. Incrementalism.
Posted by: maddogg at June 22, 2015 05:39 PM (xWW96)
784
Nood everybody!
Posted by: dogfish at June 22, 2015 05:39 PM (jWtyG)
785
nood cancer
Posted by: mynewhandle at June 22, 2015 05:39 PM (AkOaV)
786
Take down the flag you racist pigs.
However, if a bunch of Nazi scum want to parade around Skokie with a Confederate Battle flag, we will defend their right to do it, sue any municipality that tries to stop them and take it to the highest court in the land!
However, if a bunch of Nazi scum want to parade around Skokie with a Confederate Battle flag, we will defend their right to do it, sue any municipality that tries to stop them and take it to the highest court in the land!
Posted by: ACLU at June 22, 2015 05:39 PM (4KoRb)
787
Quite a few Northerners get off on Otherizing Southerners and blaming them for ALL TEH SLAVERY .
Projection ain't just a river in Kentucky.
http://pjmedia.com/instapundit/208998/
Projection ain't just a river in Kentucky.
http://pjmedia.com/instapundit/208998/
Posted by: HR braucht ein Bier at June 22, 2015 05:39 PM (ZKzrr)
788
As I watch the third or fourth Pick up truck go by with a great big confederate battle flag attached I think to myself, "ya know this might just back fire on those idiots" Those battle flags will now be everywhere.
Except at the Confederate memorial, they will be in their faces and proud of it.
Go ahead, take it down. You will see them everywhere.
What's next the Confederate Memorial statues torn down and then the Graveyards of those southern veterans will be dug up or trashed?
Want to start a hate?
Except at the Confederate memorial, they will be in their faces and proud of it.
Go ahead, take it down. You will see them everywhere.
What's next the Confederate Memorial statues torn down and then the Graveyards of those southern veterans will be dug up or trashed?
Want to start a hate?
Posted by: obsidan at June 22, 2015 05:39 PM (ARK2U)
789
Everything I know about the South I learned from Bugs Bunny and the Food Network.
The Dukes of Hazzard IS a documentary, right?
The Dukes of Hazzard IS a documentary, right?
Posted by: Erasmus Hodag at June 22, 2015 05:40 PM (Lre/J)
790
Yankees come by their stupidity naturally. They are descended from the lowest unwashed peasants that Europe had to offer.
Posted by: Boss Moss at June 22, 2015 05:40 PM (SXQcx)
791
What I find most amusing about this entire flag thing? Almost every state flag in the South is a modified battle flag. VA, TN and TX are the only exceptions.
The SJW's have no clue the FL flag is a Confederate battle flag or that the NC flag is modeled after the First National flag of the Confederacy.
The stupid is STRONG
Shhh, don't tell them
The SJW's have no clue the FL flag is a Confederate battle flag or that the NC flag is modeled after the First National flag of the Confederacy.
The stupid is STRONG
Shhh, don't tell them
Posted by: Nip Sip at June 22, 2015 05:40 PM (0FSuD)
792
What's next the Confederate Memorial statues torn down and then the
Graveyards of those southern veterans will be dug up or trashed?
Already started.
Graveyards of those southern veterans will be dug up or trashed?
Already started.
Posted by: HR braucht ein Bier at June 22, 2015 05:40 PM (ZKzrr)
793
We should be grown up enough about it now to admit there was nothing honorable or noble about the confederacy.
Posted by: DrewM.
I disagree. There were many things that were, indeed, ignoble and dishonorable about the Confederacy, and the element of slavery being a prime one.
But, to say there was nothing noble about the Confederacy is to say there was nothing noble about the American Revolution.
Posted by: DrewM.
I disagree. There were many things that were, indeed, ignoble and dishonorable about the Confederacy, and the element of slavery being a prime one.
But, to say there was nothing noble about the Confederacy is to say there was nothing noble about the American Revolution.
Posted by: Moderate Salami at June 22, 2015 05:40 PM (/Ho8c)
794
Posted by: Nevergiveup at June 22, 2015 05:38 PM (wq4B0)
Have you heard him on the podcast?
Boston?
Have you heard him on the podcast?
Boston?
Posted by: Golfman at June 22, 2015 05:40 PM (48QDY)
795
"I stand corrected. But can you deny the overwhelming racial element of slavery? That was my point."
Not in the least.
I object merely to it being stated as an absolute, "an entire race", when there were many members of that same race demonstrably walking around in unbonded freedom at the same time.
I suppose the contemporaneous topics of white indentured servitude, and whites being forcibly impressed into shipboard service, can be left as fuel for a different debate at a different time.
Not in the least.
I object merely to it being stated as an absolute, "an entire race", when there were many members of that same race demonstrably walking around in unbonded freedom at the same time.
I suppose the contemporaneous topics of white indentured servitude, and whites being forcibly impressed into shipboard service, can be left as fuel for a different debate at a different time.
Posted by: torquewrench at June 22, 2015 05:40 PM (noWW6)
796
Oh, and SC flag is not modeled after Battle flag, I forgot.
Posted by: Nip Sip at June 22, 2015 05:41 PM (0FSuD)
797
We're training up with Spanish classes so we can be prepared for the new field-hands showin' up, too!
They's gonna make some prime voter-slaves here in *insert name of DemoKKKrat-run urban plantation here*, once the other 'uns kill each other off through abortion and Crips vs. Bloods wars, and all......
They's gonna make some prime voter-slaves here in *insert name of DemoKKKrat-run urban plantation here*, once the other 'uns kill each other off through abortion and Crips vs. Bloods wars, and all......
Posted by: Mr. Foo Foo's Overseer at June 22, 2015 05:41 PM (sCHw2)
798
No other country has endorsed slavery like this country that was run by Southern Republi-Tards before the War gainst Persons of Color from 1862-1865. If Bush was Presdent that probably would have bombed the free slaves (Persons of Color) with aircraft to prevent them from achiving freedom and thus destroying Presdent Obama's bloodline.
Posted by: Mary Clogginstien from Brattleboro, Vt at June 22, 2015 05:41 PM (lNSdJ)
799
@ Ace
How many times do black people tell me to do something I do not want because it offends them? Yes, I wholeheartedly admit, accept, and enjoy that I get to tell the to politely do anatomically difficult things.
I have to put up with trashy music because it is "their disadvantaged culture." I have to pay them because they had the luck to be born black. I have to give anything they demand, in the political arena, because otherwise I am a racist and therefore silenced by being ignored. This list goes on and on and on.
Not to make this a purely racial post, there are some blacks I do actually like. Clarence Thomas comes to mind. This is a post about the chronic power abuse of one side of the political spectrum, and the relative silence from the other side.
It is about time people on the right stop caring about the poor, disadvantaged, groups. Whether they be a racial minority, LGBTBBQ, or whatever.
So yes, Ace, FUCK THEM. I see no reason to constantly capitulate our rights to groups who do not return the favor.
How many times do black people tell me to do something I do not want because it offends them? Yes, I wholeheartedly admit, accept, and enjoy that I get to tell the to politely do anatomically difficult things.
I have to put up with trashy music because it is "their disadvantaged culture." I have to pay them because they had the luck to be born black. I have to give anything they demand, in the political arena, because otherwise I am a racist and therefore silenced by being ignored. This list goes on and on and on.
Not to make this a purely racial post, there are some blacks I do actually like. Clarence Thomas comes to mind. This is a post about the chronic power abuse of one side of the political spectrum, and the relative silence from the other side.
It is about time people on the right stop caring about the poor, disadvantaged, groups. Whether they be a racial minority, LGBTBBQ, or whatever.
So yes, Ace, FUCK THEM. I see no reason to constantly capitulate our rights to groups who do not return the favor.
Posted by: CthulhuDreaming at June 22, 2015 05:41 PM (NB+Vr)
800
778
We should be grown up enough about it now to admit there was nothing honorable or noble about the confederacy.
Posted by: DrewM. at June 22, 2015 05:29 PM (vUom4)
DrewM is Moo Moo?
I KNEW IT!
We should be grown up enough about it now to admit there was nothing honorable or noble about the confederacy.
Posted by: DrewM. at June 22, 2015 05:29 PM (vUom4)
DrewM is Moo Moo?
I KNEW IT!
Posted by: some random meathead - if you're not drinking, you're not paying attention at June 22, 2015 05:41 PM (GxHdH)
801
If the Republicans were smart (ha, that's pretty funny.. tip the waitress and try the veal), they would say quite simply that they are restoring the South Carolina state flag to its original form before the Democrats changed it in the 1950s to turn it into a symbol of anti-integration.
That statement is completely true and make those scumbag racist Democrats like Fitz Hollings (SC Governor at the time) own it.
That statement is completely true and make those scumbag racist Democrats like Fitz Hollings (SC Governor at the time) own it.
Posted by: Retired Buckey Cop is now an engineer at June 22, 2015 05:41 PM (8+0sF)
802
BTW - just to be clear, slavery is bad when based on enslaving a different race, right? My white slaves are still A-OK..?
Posted by: Reactionary at June 22, 2015 05:41 PM (TsW/N)
803
To have this argument now shows how lacking in testicular fortitude some on 'our' side have become.
Get back to me after they stick a needle in Roofs ass.
Till then I have better things to do with my time.
Get back to me after they stick a needle in Roofs ass.
Till then I have better things to do with my time.
Posted by: se pa moron at June 22, 2015 05:42 PM (xQX/f)
804
The Republican Party won in the North, it won for 8 years, it went beyond what Lincoln felt about integration, it amended the Constitution to make blacks equal to whites.
The Confederates were open in their disdain for blacks and ridiculed the idea of integration. Blacks were never to run anything in the south. That was an organizing principle of the Confederacy. It is good that it was defeated.
The Confederates were open in their disdain for blacks and ridiculed the idea of integration. Blacks were never to run anything in the south. That was an organizing principle of the Confederacy. It is good that it was defeated.
Posted by: Chris Balsz at June 22, 2015 05:42 PM (8rRE+)
805
>>>Soon to be joined with by the Bill of Rights, the Constitution, and Old Glory mi amigo...<<<
Point taken, but whaddya mean "Soon." Methinks you're a tad late.
Point taken, but whaddya mean "Soon." Methinks you're a tad late.
Posted by: Fritz at June 22, 2015 05:42 PM (UzPAd)
806
"double post Sorry, hotel wifi has my tablet all hinky."
WiFi is alwayd great in the Presidential Suite where I always stay.
"double post Sorry, hotel wifi has my tablet all hinky."
WiFi is alwayd great in the Presidential Suite where I always stay.
Posted by: Mr. Doo Doo at June 22, 2015 05:42 PM (OD2ni)
807
This has been an intriguing thread. Very interesting to see the different points of view.
Posted by: Moderate Salami at June 22, 2015 05:42 PM (/Ho8c)
808
I guess I should have said "people of one race exclusively" or something like that. My bad.
Posted by: chique d'afrique (the artist formerly known as african chick) at June 22, 2015 05:37 PM
Naaaah. I was just splitting hairs, because you don't go all wacko when challenged.
I had ancestors who fought for both teams in the Civil War. As much family history as any relatives knew tells me there were no slaveowners in the family. All the war cost us was a life or two.
Posted by: chique d'afrique (the artist formerly known as african chick) at June 22, 2015 05:37 PM
Naaaah. I was just splitting hairs, because you don't go all wacko when challenged.
I had ancestors who fought for both teams in the Civil War. As much family history as any relatives knew tells me there were no slaveowners in the family. All the war cost us was a life or two.
Posted by: MrScribbler at June 22, 2015 05:42 PM (P8YHq)
Posted by: FenelonSpoke at June 22, 2015 05:43 PM (OSs/l)
810
Part of the reason why I now look forward to the end of the GOP after desperately clinging to the establishment: Kicking the Neo-Confederates out of the Big Tent. You're a jerk, Nixon.
Posted by: Shoot Me at June 22, 2015 05:43 PM (EQcfE)
811
We have an Old Confederate Prison in my city where thousands of Yankees were brought to justice before they could rejoin their father in Hell.
Posted by: Boss Moss at June 22, 2015 05:43 PM (SXQcx)
Posted by: Moderate Salami at June 22, 2015 05:43 PM (/Ho8c)
813
773 Posted by: chique d'afrique (the artist formerly known as african chick) at June 22, 2015 05:37 PM (shFKH)
I was a(n)slave indentured servant.
//Alexander Hamilton getting thrown off the 10 $ bill for being a capitalist supporting himself since age 12-14....
I was a(n)
//Alexander Hamilton getting thrown off the 10 $ bill for being a capitalist supporting himself since age 12-14....
Posted by: Sven S Blade a.k.a. El Assassin@sven10077 at June 22, 2015 05:43 PM (/4AZU)
814
Mr Droo Droo?
Posted by: andycanuck at June 22, 2015 05:43 PM (kivUY)
815
England, France, The Netherlands were people that never endorsed this and only Americans from the South did. Bushj is from TEX-ASS, a ex-confederate state that still flies that disgusting flag that insults men and women and children of color.
Posted by: Mary Clogginstien from Brattleboro, Vt at June 22, 2015 05:44 PM (lNSdJ)
816
Actually the flag that flew during all of slavery was the Stars and Stripes of Old Glory, are they going tear that down too?
Posted by: obsidan at June 22, 2015 05:44 PM (ARK2U)
817
MCScribbler, I've often said that while slavery in America was a,horrific evil, let's not act like America is the WORST COUNTRY IN THE WORLD, as if slavery is has not been part of human society from time immemorial.
Human history is overwhelming with evidence that the heart of man is desperately wicked, as Scripture says. We who are blessed to live in a time of prosperity and freedom such as this should count ourselves blessed. Which is why the left's determination to take us back to darker times should be vigorously resisted.
Human history is overwhelming with evidence that the heart of man is desperately wicked, as Scripture says. We who are blessed to live in a time of prosperity and freedom such as this should count ourselves blessed. Which is why the left's determination to take us back to darker times should be vigorously resisted.
Posted by: chique d'afrique (the artist formerly known as african chick) at June 22, 2015 05:44 PM (shFKH)
818
They were willing to fight.
That's worth honoring.
Posted by: Methos at June 22, 2015 05:38 PM (ZbV+0)
There were Union soldiers who bled and suffered fighting Rebels who chose to honor them.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joshua_Chamberlain#Appomattox
That's worth honoring.
Posted by: Methos at June 22, 2015 05:38 PM (ZbV+0)
There were Union soldiers who bled and suffered fighting Rebels who chose to honor them.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joshua_Chamberlain#Appomattox
Posted by: ConservativeMonster at June 22, 2015 05:44 PM (0NdlF)
819
Are you high? Every day here is southern pride day. We are told that Yankees are scum, that anyone who lives in a blue state is a statist scum, that Texas and Texans are the only true conservatives and on and on.
Posted by: JackStraw at June 22, 2015 05:36 PM (g1DWB)
Gee..... I can't understand why, unless being smug and arrogant had anything to do with it.
Posted by: JackStraw at June 22, 2015 05:36 PM (g1DWB)
Gee..... I can't understand why, unless being smug and arrogant had anything to do with it.
Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Suntanning in Bizzaro World at June 22, 2015 05:44 PM (CFcIt)
820
Clearly, what has to happen is that the US Civil is simply not taught in schools. It never happened, and neither did slavery. If you don't teach it, there can't be a legacy and therefore no excuses.
Posted by: rechill at June 22, 2015 05:44 PM (IIRUt)
821
What will the Left's response be to some Panther type who walks into a Baptist megachurch and kills nine people in revenge? Will Obama give the eulogy?
Posted by: Feh at June 22, 2015 05:45 PM (Uk9e2)
822
But, to say there was nothing noble about the Confederacy is to say there was nothing noble about the American Revolution.
Posted by: Moderate Salami at June 22, 2015 05:40 PM (/Ho8c)
The American Revolution was fought, however imperfectly, to expand and codify human freedom. The Confederates fought to restrict that freedom.
Posted by: Moderate Salami at June 22, 2015 05:40 PM (/Ho8c)
The American Revolution was fought, however imperfectly, to expand and codify human freedom. The Confederates fought to restrict that freedom.
Posted by: DrewM. at June 22, 2015 05:45 PM (vUom4)
823
OK, perhaps the hand shaking business was overly ambitious. How about the boob part?
Posted by: Weasel at June 22, 2015 05:45 PM (e3bId)
824
I watched a Rick Steeves ep on PBS (I know I know, but pretty travel pics are catnip to me) and he went to the less touristy parts of Ireland. Lots of monuments and murals in honor of both sides of the English/Irish conflict still up and proudly displayed. Of course Rick, being oh so enlightened, tut tutted these things and it was obvious he thought they should be all scrubbed away and expunged entirely. Cannot make the tourists like him uncomfortable!
Wanted to punch him in his smug face. It's their culture and their history, butt out. It is their people that died on both sides, they get to decide if those murals stay or go. But it was nice of Rick to to spout his opinion about what a whole other culture should do on a silly travel show.
Wanted to punch him in his smug face. It's their culture and their history, butt out. It is their people that died on both sides, they get to decide if those murals stay or go. But it was nice of Rick to to spout his opinion about what a whole other culture should do on a silly travel show.
Posted by: LizLem at June 22, 2015 05:45 PM (hvf9s)
825
Kicking the Neo-Confederates out of the Big Tent. You're a jerk, Nixon.
Posted by: Shoot Me at June 22, 2015 05:43 PM (EQcfE)
Ah, is that a reference to the ol' "southern strategy" myth?
Nice.
Posted by: Shoot Me at June 22, 2015 05:43 PM (EQcfE)
Ah, is that a reference to the ol' "southern strategy" myth?
Nice.
Posted by: mynewhandle at June 22, 2015 05:47 PM (AkOaV)
826
BTW - just to be clear, slavery is bad when based on enslaving a different race, right? My white slaves are still A-OK..?
Posted by: Reactionary at June 22, 2015 05:41 PM (TsW/N)
Yeah, enslaving white people is totes okay
Posted by: Reactionary at June 22, 2015 05:41 PM (TsW/N)
Yeah, enslaving white people is totes okay
Posted by: IRS and the SJW twitter brigade at June 22, 2015 05:47 PM (ZbV+0)
827
815: What?
The Texas flag is a single star on a filed with a white and red stripe it stands for Texas Republic.
It wasn't the flag flown at the Alamo or San Jacinto.
The Texas flag is a single star on a filed with a white and red stripe it stands for Texas Republic.
It wasn't the flag flown at the Alamo or San Jacinto.
Posted by: obsidan at June 22, 2015 05:47 PM (ARK2U)
828
Hamilton was a bastard. What do you think of me now?
Posted by: Aaron Burr at June 22, 2015 05:47 PM (SXQcx)
829
Which is why the left's determination to take us back to darker times should be vigorously resisted.
Posted by: chique d'afrique (the artist formerly known as african chick) at June 22, 2015 05:44 PM
Which, right there, is what I foresee as the cause of Civil War II.
Posted by: chique d'afrique (the artist formerly known as african chick) at June 22, 2015 05:44 PM
Which, right there, is what I foresee as the cause of Civil War II.
Posted by: MrScribbler at June 22, 2015 05:48 PM (P8YHq)
830
It is good that it was defeated.
Posted by: Chris Balsz
I think you are right about that.
Posted by: Moderate Salami
To expand a little bit, I think that Federalism suffered a near-fatal blow as a result, which was bad. The Southern states were decimated by the war, and were somewhat economically stunted in the aftermath, which wasn't good. But imagining a world where the CSA won, I'd have to say I agree with you.
Posted by: Chris Balsz
I think you are right about that.
Posted by: Moderate Salami
To expand a little bit, I think that Federalism suffered a near-fatal blow as a result, which was bad. The Southern states were decimated by the war, and were somewhat economically stunted in the aftermath, which wasn't good. But imagining a world where the CSA won, I'd have to say I agree with you.
Posted by: Moderate Salami at June 22, 2015 05:48 PM (/Ho8c)
831
798
No other country has endorsed slavery like this country that was run by
Southern Republi-Tards before the War gainst Persons of Color from
1862-1865. If Bush was Presdent that probably would have bombed the free
slaves (Persons of Color) with aircraft to prevent them from achiving
freedom and thus destroying Presdent Obama's bloodline.
Posted by: Mary Clogginstien from Brattleboro, Vt at June 22, 2015 05:41 PM (lNSdJ)
Mary, you do know that The Emancipation Proclamation ONLY applied to Southern slaves right? Slaves elsewhere were not freed.
It was a ploy to try to get the Southern Slaves to revolt. It did not work.
No other country has endorsed slavery like this country that was run by
Southern Republi-Tards before the War gainst Persons of Color from
1862-1865. If Bush was Presdent that probably would have bombed the free
slaves (Persons of Color) with aircraft to prevent them from achiving
freedom and thus destroying Presdent Obama's bloodline.
Posted by: Mary Clogginstien from Brattleboro, Vt at June 22, 2015 05:41 PM (lNSdJ)
Mary, you do know that The Emancipation Proclamation ONLY applied to Southern slaves right? Slaves elsewhere were not freed.
It was a ploy to try to get the Southern Slaves to revolt. It did not work.
Posted by: Nip Sip at June 22, 2015 05:48 PM (0FSuD)
832
By this reasoning...
spade is a derogatory statement.... and acknowledged to be downright RAAAAACIST in some uses...
ergo... Ace of Spades, must change its name... because someone somewhere could plausibly consider it raaaaacist.
spade is a derogatory statement.... and acknowledged to be downright RAAAAACIST in some uses...
ergo... Ace of Spades, must change its name... because someone somewhere could plausibly consider it raaaaacist.
Posted by: BB Wolf at June 22, 2015 05:48 PM (qh617)
833
"Of course Rick, being oh so enlightened, tut tutted these things and it
was obvious he thought they should be all scrubbed away and expunged
entirely. Cannot make the tourists like him uncomfortable!"
A marvelous encapsulation right there of the PBS/NPR mindset.
was obvious he thought they should be all scrubbed away and expunged
entirely. Cannot make the tourists like him uncomfortable!"
A marvelous encapsulation right there of the PBS/NPR mindset.
Posted by: torquewrench at June 22, 2015 05:49 PM (noWW6)
834
What will Republicans do without Teh Southern Strategy?
Posted by: West Town at June 22, 2015 05:49 PM (DEXZd)
835
I should be on the $10.
Posted by: Aaron Burr at June 22, 2015 05:50 PM (SXQcx)
836
The Confederates were open in their disdain for blacks and ridiculed the idea of integration. Blacks were never to run anything in the south. That was an organizing principle of the Confederacy. It is good that it was defeated.
Posted by: Chris Balsz at June 22, 2015 05:42 PM (8rRE+)
Yep. 'Cuz heaven knows that there's never any social change over time, and 4 million slaves would never have been enough to carry off a successful rebellion. Once a thing is "normal" it is normal forever unless some enlightened outsider comes and fixes it. Better to have 620,000 soldiers die and devastate a region, empower the federal government become the supreme arbiter of our rights, and pave the way to be drawn into global conflicts we had no business in (and we made the outcome of WW1 worse than it should have been by interfering).
Posted by: Chris Balsz at June 22, 2015 05:42 PM (8rRE+)
Yep. 'Cuz heaven knows that there's never any social change over time, and 4 million slaves would never have been enough to carry off a successful rebellion. Once a thing is "normal" it is normal forever unless some enlightened outsider comes and fixes it. Better to have 620,000 soldiers die and devastate a region, empower the federal government become the supreme arbiter of our rights, and pave the way to be drawn into global conflicts we had no business in (and we made the outcome of WW1 worse than it should have been by interfering).
Posted by: Reactionary at June 22, 2015 05:50 PM (TsW/N)
837
832 Posted by: BB Wolf at June 22, 2015 05:48 PM (qh617)
I like "Ace of Glitter" that's inclusive...
I am pretty wore out on the glee gang can we order them to knock off the rainbow and sparkles shit?
I like "Ace of Glitter" that's inclusive...
I am pretty wore out on the glee gang can we order them to knock off the rainbow and sparkles shit?
Posted by: Sven S Blade a.k.a. El Assassin@sven10077 at June 22, 2015 05:50 PM (/4AZU)
838
Posted by: Moderate Salami at June 22, 2015 05:48 PM (/Ho8c)
Yeah.
I don't know.
It certainly forever changed the relationship between states and the feds.
Unfortunately, hot tempers prevailed. Maybe it was inevitable, and the only way to end slavery. I don't know.
I don't like the precedent that states cannot leave the union without being invaded though. At all.
Yeah.
I don't know.
It certainly forever changed the relationship between states and the feds.
Unfortunately, hot tempers prevailed. Maybe it was inevitable, and the only way to end slavery. I don't know.
I don't like the precedent that states cannot leave the union without being invaded though. At all.
Posted by: mynewhandle at June 22, 2015 05:51 PM (AkOaV)
839
739 694 Southerners will stop fighting the Civil War when Northerners quit starting new offensives.
Posted by: Brother Cavil, down with Eph 6:12 at June 22, 2015 05:28 PM (2l5vw)
From someone who's been on both sides of that fence, the only people re-fighting the Civil War are the Northern Leftists.
That shit, as far as your everyday joe six pack was concerned, was done long ago.
Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Suntanning in Bizzaro World at June 22, 2015 05:33 PM (CFcIt)
Truth.
Posted by: Brother Cavil, down with Eph 6:12 at June 22, 2015 05:28 PM (2l5vw)
From someone who's been on both sides of that fence, the only people re-fighting the Civil War are the Northern Leftists.
That shit, as far as your everyday joe six pack was concerned, was done long ago.
Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Suntanning in Bizzaro World at June 22, 2015 05:33 PM (CFcIt)
Truth.
Posted by: Le-a is on a boat, MFers! at June 22, 2015 05:51 PM (me04d)
840
Please point out where I blame anyone alive today
for slavery or hold them in anyway guilty. I am the first person to
reject slavery as the reason why so much of the "black community" is
messed up.
Posted by: chique d'afrique (the artist formerly known as african chick) at June 22, 2015 05:34 PM (shFKH)
You don't personally from what I have seen. But it is said that America's chickens have come home to roost. I wish that sentiment was not held, but it is.
for slavery or hold them in anyway guilty. I am the first person to
reject slavery as the reason why so much of the "black community" is
messed up.
Posted by: chique d'afrique (the artist formerly known as african chick) at June 22, 2015 05:34 PM (shFKH)
You don't personally from what I have seen. But it is said that America's chickens have come home to roost. I wish that sentiment was not held, but it is.
Posted by: flounder at June 22, 2015 05:51 PM (Vf5rR)
841
835 Posted by: Aaron Burr at June 22, 2015 05:50 PM (SXQcx)
You can also be on the 25 dollar bill Burr you asshole...
One for the Federalist Burr and the other for the Democrat-Republican Burr...
2 Face was a reimagining of your ass...
//A Hamilton esq.-Fuck You Burr
You can also be on the 25 dollar bill Burr you asshole...
One for the Federalist Burr and the other for the Democrat-Republican Burr...
2 Face was a reimagining of your ass...
//A Hamilton esq.-Fuck You Burr
Posted by: Sven S Blade a.k.a. El Assassin@sven10077 at June 22, 2015 05:51 PM (/4AZU)
842
'Cuz heaven knows that there's never any social change over time
Posted by: Reactionary at June 22, 2015 05:50 PM (TsW/N)
Just curious but if you found yourself in bondage, like generations of your ancestors before you, how long would you be willing to wait to exercise your God given rights?
Posted by: Reactionary at June 22, 2015 05:50 PM (TsW/N)
Just curious but if you found yourself in bondage, like generations of your ancestors before you, how long would you be willing to wait to exercise your God given rights?
Posted by: DrewM. at June 22, 2015 05:52 PM (vUom4)
843
The question of racism should concern people's hearts and minds, not the symbols they may cherish in common but for different reasons. That's intellectually honest but of course utterly irrelevant in an age where the personal is political and so much power and wealth depend on intellectual dishonesty and demagoguery.
The Swastika predates the Nazis but try telling your Jewish neighbor you wear it as a symbol of fertility descending from ancient India. Our minds are so emotionally conditioned that its immaterial. Removing the ConFed Flag will change nothing. SJWs will get wet in their panties, American minorities will continue to vote Democrat and you'll alienate and piss off people who cherish their heritage.
The Swastika predates the Nazis but try telling your Jewish neighbor you wear it as a symbol of fertility descending from ancient India. Our minds are so emotionally conditioned that its immaterial. Removing the ConFed Flag will change nothing. SJWs will get wet in their panties, American minorities will continue to vote Democrat and you'll alienate and piss off people who cherish their heritage.
Posted by: Wonkish Rogue at June 22, 2015 05:52 PM (OUaW7)
844
But, to say there was nothing noble about the Confederacy is to say there was nothing noble about the American Revolution.
Posted by: Moderate Salami at June 22, 2015 05:40 PM (/Ho8c)
The American Revolution was fought, however imperfectly, to expand
and codify human freedom. The Confederates fought to restrict that
freedom.
Posted by: DrewM.
They both were fought for human freedom, but excluded a subset of the population (the same one in both cases). The Confederates fought to be free of what they saw as a tyrannical central government.
I see your point, but still disagree that slavery was the issue the war was fought over. It was the catalyst.
Posted by: Moderate Salami at June 22, 2015 05:40 PM (/Ho8c)
The American Revolution was fought, however imperfectly, to expand
and codify human freedom. The Confederates fought to restrict that
freedom.
Posted by: DrewM.
They both were fought for human freedom, but excluded a subset of the population (the same one in both cases). The Confederates fought to be free of what they saw as a tyrannical central government.
I see your point, but still disagree that slavery was the issue the war was fought over. It was the catalyst.
Posted by: Moderate Salami at June 22, 2015 05:52 PM (/Ho8c)
845
The Confederate flag is the flag of a defeated nation in a civil war. The descendants of those who fought underneath it can honor their ancestors with monuments and other symbols. The flags of states within the United States should reflect their individual histories without glorifying a civil war. The Union forces won and we are all part of the United States.
Posted by: Jill at June 22, 2015 05:53 PM (rrkRA)
846
The Confederates fought to restrict that freedom.
The Confederates fought to oppose an invading foreign army.
The Confederates fought to oppose an invading foreign army.
Posted by: Methos at June 22, 2015 05:53 PM (ZbV+0)
847
The American Revolution was fought, however imperfectly, to expand and codify human freedom. The Confederates fought to restrict that freedom.
Posted by: DrewM. at June 22, 2015 05:45 PM (vUom4)
LOL. White-hat, black-hat.
Posted by: DrewM. at June 22, 2015 05:45 PM (vUom4)
LOL. White-hat, black-hat.
Posted by: Reactionary at June 22, 2015 05:53 PM (TsW/N)
848
"Better to have 620,000 soldiers die and devastate a region, empower the federal government become the supreme arbiter of our rights, and pave the way to be drawn into global conflicts we had no business in (and we made the outcome of WW1 worse than it should have been by interfering)."
Yes. It was better.
And I've told my European friends that given what they're doing with peace and freedom, we might as well have backed the Kaiser.
Yes. It was better.
And I've told my European friends that given what they're doing with peace and freedom, we might as well have backed the Kaiser.
Posted by: Chris Balsz at June 22, 2015 05:54 PM (8rRE+)
849
"What will Republicans do without Teh Southern Strategy?"
I guess without the weight of neo-confederates holding it down, it can finally not Freak The $#% out of minorities when discussing stuff like tax policies. "Let me discuss America..." "But first tell them how the South was the real victim of the Civil War!" "Wha?"
Nixon desegregated schools. I just like poking those who whine about Big Tents by reminding them that there were other Big Tent groups.
I guess without the weight of neo-confederates holding it down, it can finally not Freak The $#% out of minorities when discussing stuff like tax policies. "Let me discuss America..." "But first tell them how the South was the real victim of the Civil War!" "Wha?"
Nixon desegregated schools. I just like poking those who whine about Big Tents by reminding them that there were other Big Tent groups.
Posted by: Shoot Me at June 22, 2015 05:54 PM (EQcfE)
850
Lincoln was the first Emperor of the American Empire. He killed the Republic like Caesar. Lincoln was brought to justice.
Posted by: Boss Moss at June 22, 2015 05:55 PM (SXQcx)
851
You can take the flag over my cold dead body. None of my black friends mind the confederate flag flying at my house. One of them ordered a 3rd national Confederate Flag when I placed my flag order abbout 2 weeks ago.
Posted by: jonwilson at June 22, 2015 05:55 PM (I4Z4v)
852
Posted by: Reactionary at June 22, 2015 05:53 PM (TsW/N)
Yeah. Not the strongest argument by Drew.
Oversimplifies the war.
But that was the end result, so... if the ends justify the means, then it all worked out.
Yeah. Not the strongest argument by Drew.
Oversimplifies the war.
But that was the end result, so... if the ends justify the means, then it all worked out.
Posted by: mynewhandle at June 22, 2015 05:55 PM (AkOaV)
853
South Carolina should take down their flag as soon as NYC renames Malcolm X Boulevard.
Posted by: Justfactualthings at June 22, 2015 05:55 PM (oCxXI)
854
Did the end to slavery create the necessity for industrialization of agriculture or would it have occurred anyway? It is a chicken and the egg problem. I think slavery was at an end if not for moral then financial reasons by the time the war came.
I think the reasons for the war were more nuanced than slavery, and was partially about the North exploiting the South economically.
Slavery is unquestionably evil, and really the war itself can be seen as the last battle not settled by the aftermath of the revolution and the compromises that had to have been made out of necessity.
I think the reasons for the war were more nuanced than slavery, and was partially about the North exploiting the South economically.
Slavery is unquestionably evil, and really the war itself can be seen as the last battle not settled by the aftermath of the revolution and the compromises that had to have been made out of necessity.
Posted by: Jollyroger at June 22, 2015 05:55 PM (t06LC)
855
850 Lincoln was the first Emperor of the American Empire. He killed the Republic like Caesar. Lincoln was brought to justice.
Posted by: Boss Moss at June 22, 2015 05:55 PM (SXQcx)
Yikes.
Posted by: Boss Moss at June 22, 2015 05:55 PM (SXQcx)
Yikes.
Posted by: mynewhandle at June 22, 2015 05:56 PM (AkOaV)
856
The flags of states within the United States should reflect their individual histories without glorifying a civil war. The Union forces won and we are all part of the United States.
Posted by: Jill at June 22, 2015 05:53 PM (rrkRA)
and yet white southerners serve in far greater numbers than the rest of the nation.
they put their money where their mouth is.
Posted by: Jill at June 22, 2015 05:53 PM (rrkRA)
and yet white southerners serve in far greater numbers than the rest of the nation.
they put their money where their mouth is.
Posted by: avi at June 22, 2015 05:57 PM (4bND1)
857
Posted by: Methos at June 22, 2015 05:53 PM (ZbV+0)
That was their theory. They were proven wrong. There is no such thing as a "foreign army" duly constituted by the United States government on US soil.
That was their theory. They were proven wrong. There is no such thing as a "foreign army" duly constituted by the United States government on US soil.
Posted by: DrewM. at June 22, 2015 05:57 PM (vUom4)
858
Just curious but if you found yourself in bondage, like generations of your ancestors before you, how long would you be willing to wait to exercise your God given rights?
Posted by: DrewM. at June 22, 2015 05:52 PM (vUom4)
Hmmm, well, hard to be sure. I suspect I'd want my bondage to be over immediately. Self interest, and all. I wonder whether it's reasonable to expect an invading army to come bleed for me to secure it and slay my vile oppressors? I'd have to say it's a historical anomaly when such things do happen. And of course, once said foreign army has done the deed and subjugated my former slave masters, those former masters should be expected to embrace me as their brother and equal. Anything else is just inconceivable. After all, after a lifetime of suffering, surely I would not take advantage of my new found political power to extract a pound of flesh. Unbecoming of a free man.
Posted by: DrewM. at June 22, 2015 05:52 PM (vUom4)
Hmmm, well, hard to be sure. I suspect I'd want my bondage to be over immediately. Self interest, and all. I wonder whether it's reasonable to expect an invading army to come bleed for me to secure it and slay my vile oppressors? I'd have to say it's a historical anomaly when such things do happen. And of course, once said foreign army has done the deed and subjugated my former slave masters, those former masters should be expected to embrace me as their brother and equal. Anything else is just inconceivable. After all, after a lifetime of suffering, surely I would not take advantage of my new found political power to extract a pound of flesh. Unbecoming of a free man.
Posted by: Reactionary at June 22, 2015 05:57 PM (TsW/N)
859
Obama would not give the eulogy if a Black Panther Killed nine white people in a church-although as much as I detest dislike the Black Panthers, I don't think they'd do that, nor would Obama give the eulogy if ISIS killed nine white people in a church either.
Posted by: FenelonSpoke at June 22, 2015 05:58 PM (OSs/l)
860
Just curious but if you found yourself in bondage,
like generations of your ancestors before you, how long would you be
willing to wait to exercise your God given rights?
Posted by: DrewM. at June 22, 2015 05:52 PM
Just curious, Drew, suppose this mythical Person of Bondage of whom you speak was not really repressed at all, but through the exhortations of Big Shots he has been told to admire has come to believe so?
What if said P.o.B. derives social, financial and political advantage by clinging to a false sens of oppression?
Am I supposed to weep for that person, and sacrifice my rights and earnings for them?
like generations of your ancestors before you, how long would you be
willing to wait to exercise your God given rights?
Posted by: DrewM. at June 22, 2015 05:52 PM
Just curious, Drew, suppose this mythical Person of Bondage of whom you speak was not really repressed at all, but through the exhortations of Big Shots he has been told to admire has come to believe so?
What if said P.o.B. derives social, financial and political advantage by clinging to a false sens of oppression?
Am I supposed to weep for that person, and sacrifice my rights and earnings for them?
Posted by: MrScribbler at June 22, 2015 05:58 PM (P8YHq)
861
855 850 Lincoln was the first Emperor of the American Empire. He killed the Republic like Caesar. Lincoln was brought to justice.
Posted by: Boss Moss at June 22, 2015 05:55 PM (SXQcx)
Yikes.
Posted by: mynewhandle at June 22, 2015 05:56 PM (AkOaV)
the south would have fared much better with lincoln alive- as so the Roman Republic.
Posted by: Boss Moss at June 22, 2015 05:55 PM (SXQcx)
Yikes.
Posted by: mynewhandle at June 22, 2015 05:56 PM (AkOaV)
the south would have fared much better with lincoln alive- as so the Roman Republic.
Posted by: avi at June 22, 2015 05:58 PM (4bND1)
862
What's certain is that this is all bound to end well. Amirite?
Posted by: Wonkish Rogue at June 22, 2015 05:59 PM (OUaW7)
863
It's not really about the cake, you know.
Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at June 22, 2015 05:59 PM (VPLuQ)
864
"And of course, once said foreign army has done the deed and subjugated my former slave masters, those former masters should be expected to embrace me as their brother and equal. Anything else is just inconceivable. After all, after a lifetime of suffering, surely I would not take advantage of my new found political power to extract a pound of flesh. Unbecoming of a free man."
So...you think Jim Crow made sense?
So...you think Jim Crow made sense?
Posted by: Chris Balsz at June 22, 2015 05:59 PM (8rRE+)
Posted by: Count de Monet at June 22, 2015 05:59 PM (JO9+V)
866
Yes. It was better.
And I've told my European friends that given what they're doing with peace and freedom, we might as well have backed the Kaiser.
Wait, your position is it was worthwhile killing men you claim were still Americans in order to free a bunch of Africans, but it was not worthwhile to keep the people of France, who had our back when we needed them against the Brits, free from Germany?
WTF, dude?
And I've told my European friends that given what they're doing with peace and freedom, we might as well have backed the Kaiser.
Wait, your position is it was worthwhile killing men you claim were still Americans in order to free a bunch of Africans, but it was not worthwhile to keep the people of France, who had our back when we needed them against the Brits, free from Germany?
WTF, dude?
Posted by: Methos at June 22, 2015 06:01 PM (ZbV+0)
Posted by: Moderate Salami at June 22, 2015 06:01 PM (/Ho8c)
868
851 You can take the flag over my cold dead body. None of my black friends mind the confederate flag flying at my house. One of them ordered a 3rd national Confederate Flag when I placed my flag order abbout 2 weeks ago.
Posted by: jonwilson at June 22, 2015 05:55 PM (I4Z4v)
you do realize that many will interpret what you just said as
"some of my best friends..."
Posted by: jonwilson at June 22, 2015 05:55 PM (I4Z4v)
you do realize that many will interpret what you just said as
"some of my best friends..."
Posted by: avi at June 22, 2015 06:01 PM (4bND1)
869
This thread is totally going to 1000
Posted by: Jenny Hates Her Phone at June 22, 2015 06:01 PM (nQW20)
870
That was their theory. They were proven wrong. There is no such thing as a "foreign army" duly constituted by the United States government on US soil.
Posted by: DrewM. at June 22, 2015 05:57 PM (vUom4)
Well, depends on your perspective.
As a yankee, I agree with you.
As someone trying to look at the civil war without interjecting my personal biases too much -- I can see how you could see Sherman marching through the south, burning down everything in his path, and forcibly taking supplies from locals and think "invading army" and not "my government"
Posted by: DrewM. at June 22, 2015 05:57 PM (vUom4)
Well, depends on your perspective.
As a yankee, I agree with you.
As someone trying to look at the civil war without interjecting my personal biases too much -- I can see how you could see Sherman marching through the south, burning down everything in his path, and forcibly taking supplies from locals and think "invading army" and not "my government"
Posted by: mynewhandle at June 22, 2015 06:01 PM (AkOaV)
871
The North-South thing has the air of the culture wars at this point - the North won and there's no need to go house-to-house shooting the survivors ala the GLAAD outrage police. There's not a person alive that had fuck-all to do with that war, even tangentially.
As above, I'm no apologist for the Confederacy but you don't reunify a divided nation by obsessive multi-generational denunciation and other social scab-picking. The one amnesty I'll support today is amnesty for the South over a long-dead war.
In that I support a version of limited government and states' rights that would permit private-sector race discrimination if that's what people choose, I can't see where it's my business to tell South Carolinians or any other southerners what flags to fly.
As above, I'm no apologist for the Confederacy but you don't reunify a divided nation by obsessive multi-generational denunciation and other social scab-picking. The one amnesty I'll support today is amnesty for the South over a long-dead war.
In that I support a version of limited government and states' rights that would permit private-sector race discrimination if that's what people choose, I can't see where it's my business to tell South Carolinians or any other southerners what flags to fly.
Posted by: SocietyIs2Blame at June 22, 2015 06:02 PM (WIOql)
872
Yes. It was better.
And I've told my European friends that given what they're doing with peace and freedom, we might as well have backed the Kaiser.
Posted by: Chris Balsz at June 22, 2015 05:54 PM (8rRE+)
The Germans were not going to win. It was grinding down in stalemate. We stuck our nose where it didn't belong, and destroyed the balance. Result: the victory of communism in Russia, humiliation for Germany, forcing democratic systems onto people incapable of handling it, and ultimately the 2nd world war and all the misery that came with it.
Better had we minded our own business, and left the Empire Building to the Europeans.
And I've told my European friends that given what they're doing with peace and freedom, we might as well have backed the Kaiser.
Posted by: Chris Balsz at June 22, 2015 05:54 PM (8rRE+)
The Germans were not going to win. It was grinding down in stalemate. We stuck our nose where it didn't belong, and destroyed the balance. Result: the victory of communism in Russia, humiliation for Germany, forcing democratic systems onto people incapable of handling it, and ultimately the 2nd world war and all the misery that came with it.
Better had we minded our own business, and left the Empire Building to the Europeans.
Posted by: Reactionary at June 22, 2015 06:02 PM (TsW/N)
873
Hey Ace, when will we get to see you denounce Affirmative Action (i.e., racial discrimination against whites that is **in effect right now**) as loudly as you denounce a piece of cloth that arguably symbolizes something bad that stopped happening 150 years ago?
Asking for a friend.
Asking for a friend.
Posted by: Justfactualthings at June 22, 2015 06:02 PM (oCxXI)
874
Yes; Things would have probably been better in the South after the war had Lincoln not been assassinated.
Posted by: FenelonSpoke at June 22, 2015 06:02 PM (OSs/l)
875
the south would have fared much better with lincoln alive- as so the Roman Republic.
Posted by: avi at June 22, 2015 05:58 PM (4bND1)
Maybe.
The so-called "radical republicans" certainly were not friendly to the south during Reconstruction.
Posted by: avi at June 22, 2015 05:58 PM (4bND1)
Maybe.
The so-called "radical republicans" certainly were not friendly to the south during Reconstruction.
Posted by: mynewhandle at June 22, 2015 06:03 PM (AkOaV)
876
What we are seeing is both the Left, and the RIGHT, breaking up one of the last Conservative groups....
White males.
They are forcing us into different tribes... continuing the balkanization of the American society that the Left needs to continue its Governmental grab for power.
Now.... they are forcing a dividing line between groups based on a fight from 150 years ago...
White males.
They are forcing us into different tribes... continuing the balkanization of the American society that the Left needs to continue its Governmental grab for power.
Now.... they are forcing a dividing line between groups based on a fight from 150 years ago...
Posted by: BB Wolf at June 22, 2015 06:03 PM (qh617)
877
That was their theory. They were proven wrong. There is no such thing as
a "foreign army" duly constituted by the United States government on US
soil.
They weren't proven wrong, they just didn't inflict enough damage on the foreign power to correct its aggression. The federal government has no right to exist, nor territorial claims, but that we permit it to.
a "foreign army" duly constituted by the United States government on US
soil.
They weren't proven wrong, they just didn't inflict enough damage on the foreign power to correct its aggression. The federal government has no right to exist, nor territorial claims, but that we permit it to.
Posted by: Methos at June 22, 2015 06:03 PM (ZbV+0)
Posted by: Moderate Salami at June 22, 2015 06:04 PM (/Ho8c)
879
"WTF, dude?
Posted by: Methos at June 22, 2015 06:01 PM (ZbV+0)"
Yeah its as if I could tolerate a German-dominated Europe with an inhumane callousness masked by a veneer of Christian democracy. Crazy.
Posted by: Methos at June 22, 2015 06:01 PM (ZbV+0)"
Yeah its as if I could tolerate a German-dominated Europe with an inhumane callousness masked by a veneer of Christian democracy. Crazy.
Posted by: Chris Balsz at June 22, 2015 06:04 PM (8rRE+)
880
"WTF, dude?
Posted by: Methos at June 22, 2015 06:01 PM (ZbV+0)"
Yeah its as if I could tolerate a German-dominated Europe with an inhumane callousness masked by a veneer of Christian democracy. Crazy.
Posted by: Methos at June 22, 2015 06:01 PM (ZbV+0)"
Yeah its as if I could tolerate a German-dominated Europe with an inhumane callousness masked by a veneer of Christian democracy. Crazy.
Posted by: Chris Balsz at June 22, 2015 06:04 PM (8rRE+)
881
The U.S. should have stayed out of the World Wars. Saving the Racist Imperialist British Empire wasn't in their National interests.
Posted by: Boss Moss at June 22, 2015 06:04 PM (SXQcx)
882
And once again we can all pat ourselves on the back and tell ourselves what nice little people we are.
Because we took down a flag (mind you, a flag that in my opinion does symbolize some rather odious, vile things, and also some very misguided people -- the South has plenty of heritage to recommend it which does not entail CBFs, slavery, or the Civil War; not all Southerners were even down for the cause, maybe some attention should be paid to them! -- as a Yankee I don't personally like that flag for what I deem to be as good a reasons as any, but it is not my feelings or opinions that rule the day here; I have to respect the 1st Amendment, even when I don't want to; my personal feelings do not count -- now, did the SC Gen. Assmbl. take it down as per their law or was this procedure not followed? if not, then that creates a very dangerous precedent). Not flying it on state capitols would be very much seen as a gesture of good taste in my opinion (and perhaps accepting reality -- war's over, South lost, probably a good thing if you think about it), but it is up to the people of a state to decide.
This does not change the actual problem, which is that a very evil, twisted person killed 9 innocent ones -- those sort of things go to the heart of the matter: the capacity for the individual to do evil, and there is no way to legislate against that. In fact, one can do even greater evil to more if one tries.
But of course this has nothing to do with addressing that problem and more to do with political ideology and the control of crowds. And one of the best ways to do this is to keep them constantly distracted by venal things, constantly at odds with each other, and constantly in need of affirmation/direction from on high.
Because we took down a flag (mind you, a flag that in my opinion does symbolize some rather odious, vile things, and also some very misguided people -- the South has plenty of heritage to recommend it which does not entail CBFs, slavery, or the Civil War; not all Southerners were even down for the cause, maybe some attention should be paid to them! -- as a Yankee I don't personally like that flag for what I deem to be as good a reasons as any, but it is not my feelings or opinions that rule the day here; I have to respect the 1st Amendment, even when I don't want to; my personal feelings do not count -- now, did the SC Gen. Assmbl. take it down as per their law or was this procedure not followed? if not, then that creates a very dangerous precedent). Not flying it on state capitols would be very much seen as a gesture of good taste in my opinion (and perhaps accepting reality -- war's over, South lost, probably a good thing if you think about it), but it is up to the people of a state to decide.
This does not change the actual problem, which is that a very evil, twisted person killed 9 innocent ones -- those sort of things go to the heart of the matter: the capacity for the individual to do evil, and there is no way to legislate against that. In fact, one can do even greater evil to more if one tries.
But of course this has nothing to do with addressing that problem and more to do with political ideology and the control of crowds. And one of the best ways to do this is to keep them constantly distracted by venal things, constantly at odds with each other, and constantly in need of affirmation/direction from on high.
Posted by: unknown j. at June 22, 2015 06:04 PM (0EjYp)
883
Is the whoreson Burr in here, shooting his fucking mouth off?
Posted by: Zombie Hamilton at June 22, 2015 06:04 PM (G3txG)
884
Posted by: Reactionary at June 22, 2015 05:57 PM (TsW/N)
I'll just wait to see how you respond to 864.
I'll just wait to see how you respond to 864.
Posted by: DrewM. at June 22, 2015 06:05 PM (vUom4)
885
What we are seeing is both the Left, and the RIGHT, breaking up one of the last Conservative groups....
No enemies on the Right. And as far as the "Right" is an enemy to that, they're not the Right.
No enemies on the Right. And as far as the "Right" is an enemy to that, they're not the Right.
Posted by: ConservativeMonster at June 22, 2015 06:06 PM (0NdlF)
886
the south would have fared much better with lincoln alive- as so the Roman Republic. Posted by: avi at June 22, 2015 05:58 PM (4bND1)
Yep. Lincoln loved the South and would have protected them during reconstruction; his death left them to the wolves. John Wilkes Booth sealed the doom for the south that night in Ford's Theatre, may he roast in hell for it.
Yep. Lincoln loved the South and would have protected them during reconstruction; his death left them to the wolves. John Wilkes Booth sealed the doom for the south that night in Ford's Theatre, may he roast in hell for it.
Posted by: LizLem at June 22, 2015 06:06 PM (hvf9s)
887
838 Posted by: Moderate Salami at June 22, 2015 05:48 PM (/Ho8c)
Yeah.
I don't know.
It certainly forever changed the relationship between states and the feds.
Unfortunately, hot tempers prevailed. Maybe it was inevitable, and the only way to end slavery. I don't know.
I don't like the precedent that states cannot leave the union without being invaded though. At all.
Posted by: mynewhandle at June 22, 2015 05:51 PM (AkOaV)
i never understood why West Virginia was allowed to secede.
Yeah.
I don't know.
It certainly forever changed the relationship between states and the feds.
Unfortunately, hot tempers prevailed. Maybe it was inevitable, and the only way to end slavery. I don't know.
I don't like the precedent that states cannot leave the union without being invaded though. At all.
Posted by: mynewhandle at June 22, 2015 05:51 PM (AkOaV)
i never understood why West Virginia was allowed to secede.
Posted by: avi at June 22, 2015 06:06 PM (4bND1)
888
We've now moved from relitigating the civil war, to the First World War.
Call me when we get to the War on Drugs.
Call me when we get to the War on Drugs.
Posted by: Jenny Hates Her Phone at June 22, 2015 06:06 PM (nQW20)
889
Remember what happened last time you started running your mouth?
Posted by: Aaron Burr at June 22, 2015 06:06 PM (SXQcx)
890
Obama would not give the eulogy if a Black Panther Killed nine white people in a church
Posted by: FenelonSpoke
Not only did I give the eulogy, I ordered the flags lowered to half-staff.
And just wait until Castro kicks the bucket.
Posted by: President Obama - Live from the Nelson "Necklace" Mandela Funeral
Obama would not give the eulogy if a Black Panther Killed nine white people in a church
Posted by: FenelonSpoke
Not only did I give the eulogy, I ordered the flags lowered to half-staff.
And just wait until Castro kicks the bucket.
Posted by: President Obama - Live from the Nelson "Necklace" Mandela Funeral
Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at June 22, 2015 06:07 PM (kdS6q)
891
Ace, here's the problem, coming from somebody who lived down in Columbia through the whole kerfuffle c. 1999-2000 when SC took the flag off the Statehouse and put it where it is now.
The flag flies BEHIND a large obelisk called the Confederate Soldiers' Memorial at the corner of Main and Gervais streets in downtown Columbia, on one side of the Statehouse grounds. The Memorial is a slightly larger version of the typical Confederate war dead memorial that you find outside virtually every state capitol and county courthouse in the old Confederacy. It is just what it says, a memorial to South Carolina's thousands upon thousands of war dead, as well as the fact that the state (most particularly Columbia) was absolutely ravaged by Bill Sherman in early 1865 during his march through the Carolinas. From street level on Main Street, or driving up Gervais Street, unless you look very very closely, YOU CANNOT SEE THE DAMN THING. It is as hidden as they could possibly make it. It is not in anyone's face.
OK. So in the 1960s the state voted to put a Confederate Naval Jack (yes, the rectangular St. Andrews Cross that everybody calls the "Confederate flag" was never a political flag of the Confederacy) on the Statehouse roof as a big "fuck you" to desegregationists. (Signed, by the way, by DEMOCRATIC Governor Ernest "Fritz" Hollings.) When the pressure got too intense to leave the flag up there in the late '90s, Democratic Governor Jim Hodges and black legislators came up with a fair compromise. The flag would be removed from the top of the Statehouse, and an Army of Northern Virginia battle flag replica would be placed at the Soldiers' Memorial. That flag, the battle standard of Robert E. Lee's army, was the flag that the vast majority of South Carolinian soldiers fought under between 1861 and 1865. A soldiers' flag, at a soldiers' memorial.
The NAACP, which originally thought that was a good compromise, sensed weakness and, as all liberals do, immediately moved the goalposts. They stated their boycott of South Carolina (which hasn't hurt anyone but college athletic teams and black tour operators) would continue until there were no Confederate flags at all on the grounds, some even advocating demolishing the Soldiers' Memorial. Hodges, to his credit, stood his ground, as did most of the black legislators who helped craft the compromise. That still didn't stop him from getting voted out for Mark Sanford next election, largely by pissed-off white voters sick of what they saw as him groveling to the NAACP.
So here we are. Nikki Haley is about to find out that it doesn't matter what she does, she will never, EVER, get the racists at the NAACP and the race pimps like Al Sharpton to give her one fucking ounce of credit for "doing the right thing." Never. Instead, you watch, they will now decide to push for the complete eradication of all things WBTS from anywhere near the vicinity of the Statehouse, including the Soldiers' Memorial which has been there since the late 1800s. Meanwhile, she has just stepped in it with a small (and shrinking) but vocal and politically active group of Southern heritage defenders who will probably make her next election much tougher than it needed to be.
Leave the flag up. It's where it belongs.
The flag flies BEHIND a large obelisk called the Confederate Soldiers' Memorial at the corner of Main and Gervais streets in downtown Columbia, on one side of the Statehouse grounds. The Memorial is a slightly larger version of the typical Confederate war dead memorial that you find outside virtually every state capitol and county courthouse in the old Confederacy. It is just what it says, a memorial to South Carolina's thousands upon thousands of war dead, as well as the fact that the state (most particularly Columbia) was absolutely ravaged by Bill Sherman in early 1865 during his march through the Carolinas. From street level on Main Street, or driving up Gervais Street, unless you look very very closely, YOU CANNOT SEE THE DAMN THING. It is as hidden as they could possibly make it. It is not in anyone's face.
OK. So in the 1960s the state voted to put a Confederate Naval Jack (yes, the rectangular St. Andrews Cross that everybody calls the "Confederate flag" was never a political flag of the Confederacy) on the Statehouse roof as a big "fuck you" to desegregationists. (Signed, by the way, by DEMOCRATIC Governor Ernest "Fritz" Hollings.) When the pressure got too intense to leave the flag up there in the late '90s, Democratic Governor Jim Hodges and black legislators came up with a fair compromise. The flag would be removed from the top of the Statehouse, and an Army of Northern Virginia battle flag replica would be placed at the Soldiers' Memorial. That flag, the battle standard of Robert E. Lee's army, was the flag that the vast majority of South Carolinian soldiers fought under between 1861 and 1865. A soldiers' flag, at a soldiers' memorial.
The NAACP, which originally thought that was a good compromise, sensed weakness and, as all liberals do, immediately moved the goalposts. They stated their boycott of South Carolina (which hasn't hurt anyone but college athletic teams and black tour operators) would continue until there were no Confederate flags at all on the grounds, some even advocating demolishing the Soldiers' Memorial. Hodges, to his credit, stood his ground, as did most of the black legislators who helped craft the compromise. That still didn't stop him from getting voted out for Mark Sanford next election, largely by pissed-off white voters sick of what they saw as him groveling to the NAACP.
So here we are. Nikki Haley is about to find out that it doesn't matter what she does, she will never, EVER, get the racists at the NAACP and the race pimps like Al Sharpton to give her one fucking ounce of credit for "doing the right thing." Never. Instead, you watch, they will now decide to push for the complete eradication of all things WBTS from anywhere near the vicinity of the Statehouse, including the Soldiers' Memorial which has been there since the late 1800s. Meanwhile, she has just stepped in it with a small (and shrinking) but vocal and politically active group of Southern heritage defenders who will probably make her next election much tougher than it needed to be.
Leave the flag up. It's where it belongs.
Posted by: Moose4 at June 22, 2015 06:08 PM (O4XaS)
892
Call me when we get to the War on Drugs. Posted by: Jenny Hates Her Phone at June 22, 2015 06:06 PM (nQW20)
Just say no!
Just say no!
Posted by: D.A.R.E. at June 22, 2015 06:08 PM (hvf9s)
893
Posted by: MrScribbler at June 22, 2015 05:58 PM (P8YHq)
I think telling blacks to 'get over' is a losing plan. Especially while defending or signiling indifference to official displays of Confederate symbols.
Race has bedeviled America since before Day 1 and will for the foreseeable future.
While I want liberals to admit it's not 1960 forever and always, I'd like a good many conservatives to admit race looks very different to blacks.
The Al Sharptons of the world are a problem but removing the hucksters wouldn't be a silver bullet either.
I think telling blacks to 'get over' is a losing plan. Especially while defending or signiling indifference to official displays of Confederate symbols.
Race has bedeviled America since before Day 1 and will for the foreseeable future.
While I want liberals to admit it's not 1960 forever and always, I'd like a good many conservatives to admit race looks very different to blacks.
The Al Sharptons of the world are a problem but removing the hucksters wouldn't be a silver bullet either.
Posted by: DrewM. at June 22, 2015 06:08 PM (vUom4)
894
637: I find it interesting that Ace has openly called for a national divorce, aka secession, where Democrats get part of the country and Republicans/conservatives get the other part. And he appears to be quite serious about it.
If this actually were to occur, and people who vote GOP were to get 25 states to form their own country with, by definition that country would be overwhelmingly white. I mean, practically all the blacks would be compelled to migrate to Blue America.
So Ace is essentially calling for de facto re-segregation in the year 2015, while denouncing the South for having supported segregation half a century ago.
Like I said, interesting.
If this actually were to occur, and people who vote GOP were to get 25 states to form their own country with, by definition that country would be overwhelmingly white. I mean, practically all the blacks would be compelled to migrate to Blue America.
So Ace is essentially calling for de facto re-segregation in the year 2015, while denouncing the South for having supported segregation half a century ago.
Like I said, interesting.
Posted by: Justfactualthings at June 22, 2015 06:08 PM (oCxXI)
895
So...you think Jim Crow made sense?
Posted by: Chris Balsz at June 22, 2015 05:59 PM (8rRE+)
If I were suddenly living in a place surrounded by people who have a pretty serious grievance against me, I would fully expect them to have their vengeance. If I had power, I would use it to keep those aggrieved people in a state where they could not appropriate what was mine. Period. In that scenario I'm not going to be able to say "Hey, sorry about that whole slavery thing. Let's just be buds now."
Jim Crow was unfair, but it was not illogical. What is despicable from the comfortable distance we enjoy did not look the same way at ground zero.
Frankly, I think everyone would have come out ahead in the long run had the resettlement program for freed slaves been successful. I have yet to see a case where racial balkanization works out well.
Posted by: Chris Balsz at June 22, 2015 05:59 PM (8rRE+)
If I were suddenly living in a place surrounded by people who have a pretty serious grievance against me, I would fully expect them to have their vengeance. If I had power, I would use it to keep those aggrieved people in a state where they could not appropriate what was mine. Period. In that scenario I'm not going to be able to say "Hey, sorry about that whole slavery thing. Let's just be buds now."
Jim Crow was unfair, but it was not illogical. What is despicable from the comfortable distance we enjoy did not look the same way at ground zero.
Frankly, I think everyone would have come out ahead in the long run had the resettlement program for freed slaves been successful. I have yet to see a case where racial balkanization works out well.
Posted by: Reactionary at June 22, 2015 06:09 PM (TsW/N)
896
We've now moved from relitigating the civil war, to the First World War.
Posted by: Jenny Hates Her Phone
War of Western European Aggression
We've now moved from relitigating the civil war, to the First World War.
Posted by: Jenny Hates Her Phone
War of Western European Aggression
Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at June 22, 2015 06:09 PM (kdS6q)
897
885 What we are seeing is both the Left, and the RIGHT, breaking up one of the last Conservative groups....
No enemies on the Right. And as far as the "Right" is an enemy to that, they're not the Right.
Posted by: ConservativeMonster at June 22, 2015 06:06 PM (0NdlF)
Sorry, but many on the RIGHT are jumping on this bandwagon... as evidenced by this very thread....
Its an old story... the left starts it... then then some on the RIGHT turn around and pile on...
No enemies on the Right. And as far as the "Right" is an enemy to that, they're not the Right.
Posted by: ConservativeMonster at June 22, 2015 06:06 PM (0NdlF)
Sorry, but many on the RIGHT are jumping on this bandwagon... as evidenced by this very thread....
Its an old story... the left starts it... then then some on the RIGHT turn around and pile on...
Posted by: BB Wolf at June 22, 2015 06:09 PM (qh617)
Posted by: SocietyIs2Blame at June 22, 2015 06:09 PM (WIOql)
899
What a colossal circle jerk.
This entire argument (demand) is precipitated by a wholly unrelated event - the shooting and killing of a bunch of black people in a black church by a deranged and evil 21 year old white guy.
There is no relationship between the evil that scum perpetrated and the flying or displaying of the Confederate flag.
So what this amounts to is a distraction from what we should be discussing: how did this low life POS go unnoticed long enough to get a gun and kill a bunch of innocent people? See, figuring that out would take too long for our attention span challenged public.
So, take down the flag, you will have done something, anything, and then can go back to watching the fucking Kardashians.
This entire argument (demand) is precipitated by a wholly unrelated event - the shooting and killing of a bunch of black people in a black church by a deranged and evil 21 year old white guy.
There is no relationship between the evil that scum perpetrated and the flying or displaying of the Confederate flag.
So what this amounts to is a distraction from what we should be discussing: how did this low life POS go unnoticed long enough to get a gun and kill a bunch of innocent people? See, figuring that out would take too long for our attention span challenged public.
So, take down the flag, you will have done something, anything, and then can go back to watching the fucking Kardashians.
Posted by: steve walsh at June 22, 2015 06:10 PM (6CCkt)
900
i never understood why West Virginia was allowed to secede.
Posted by: avi at June 22, 2015 06:06 PM (4bND1)
...Secede from Virginia?
Because the western counties of VA were largely not slave owning counties and they weren't down for a revolution and they just wanted to sit around, pick their banjos, bang their cousins, smoke meth all day, and collect welfare checks. (sorry, that's unfair).
Posted by: avi at June 22, 2015 06:06 PM (4bND1)
...Secede from Virginia?
Because the western counties of VA were largely not slave owning counties and they weren't down for a revolution and they just wanted to sit around, pick their banjos, bang their cousins, smoke meth all day, and collect welfare checks. (sorry, that's unfair).
Posted by: mynewhandle at June 22, 2015 06:10 PM (AkOaV)
901
>>889 Remember what happened last time you started running your mouth?
Yeah.
I went to the dueling field, fired a gun off into the air and expected you to do the same. As was customary. sonwe could go about our respective business and both save face...
And you fucking shot me!
later on I hear you had been practicing.
The. fuck. Man.
Yeah.
I went to the dueling field, fired a gun off into the air and expected you to do the same. As was customary. sonwe could go about our respective business and both save face...
And you fucking shot me!
later on I hear you had been practicing.
The. fuck. Man.
Posted by: Zombie Hamilton at June 22, 2015 06:11 PM (G3txG)
902
I don't like the precedent that states cannot leave the union without being invaded though. At all.
Posted by: mynewhandle
I agree. That was certainly a bad outcome, as was the massive change to the status of Citizenship and the relationship of States to the central government.
Posted by: mynewhandle
I agree. That was certainly a bad outcome, as was the massive change to the status of Citizenship and the relationship of States to the central government.
Posted by: Moderate Salami at June 22, 2015 06:12 PM (/Ho8c)
903
900 i never understood why West Virginia was allowed to secede.
Posted by: avi at June 22, 2015 06:06 PM (4bND1)
...Secede from Virginia?
Because the western counties of VA were largely not slave owning counties and they weren't down for a revolution and they just wanted to sit around, pick their banjos, bang their cousins, smoke meth all day, and collect welfare checks. (sorry, that's unfair).
Posted by: mynewhandle at June 22, 2015 06:10 PM (AkOaV)
but if secession was inherently illegal....
Posted by: avi at June 22, 2015 06:06 PM (4bND1)
...Secede from Virginia?
Because the western counties of VA were largely not slave owning counties and they weren't down for a revolution and they just wanted to sit around, pick their banjos, bang their cousins, smoke meth all day, and collect welfare checks. (sorry, that's unfair).
Posted by: mynewhandle at June 22, 2015 06:10 PM (AkOaV)
but if secession was inherently illegal....
Posted by: avi at June 22, 2015 06:12 PM (4bND1)
904
I think telling blacks to 'get over' is a losing plan.
Posted by: DrewM.
Ok.
Sooooo -- you guys leaving anytime soon?
Posted by: The American Indians
I think telling blacks to 'get over' is a losing plan.
Posted by: DrewM.
Ok.
Sooooo -- you guys leaving anytime soon?
Posted by: The American Indians
Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at June 22, 2015 06:12 PM (kdS6q)
905
Jim Crow was unfair, but it was not illogical. What is despicable from the comfortable distance we enjoy did not look the same way at ground zero.
Frankly, I think everyone would have come out ahead in the long run had the resettlement program for freed slaves been successful. I have yet to see a case where racial balkanization works out well.
Posted by: Reactionary at June 22, 2015 06:09 PM (TsW/N)
Nice.
Jim Crow came around 2 generations after slavery ended, mostly in response to the decision in Plessy v Ferguson, and pushed almost exclusively by progressive democrats who believed highly in eugenics.
Frankly, I think everyone would have come out ahead in the long run had the resettlement program for freed slaves been successful. I have yet to see a case where racial balkanization works out well.
Posted by: Reactionary at June 22, 2015 06:09 PM (TsW/N)
Nice.
Jim Crow came around 2 generations after slavery ended, mostly in response to the decision in Plessy v Ferguson, and pushed almost exclusively by progressive democrats who believed highly in eugenics.
Posted by: mynewhandle at June 22, 2015 06:12 PM (AkOaV)
Posted by: FenelonSpoke at June 22, 2015 06:13 PM (OSs/l)
907
So any opinions on instant grits?
Posted by: Weasel at June 22, 2015 06:14 PM (e3bId)
908
900 And the Radical Republican position was that the Southern states actually had left the Union, so they had no protection as states under the Constitution.
Posted by: Chris Balsz at June 22, 2015 06:14 PM (8rRE+)
909
891 Posted by: Moose4 at June 22, 2015 06:08 PM (O4XaS)
I'm here now, the CBF is not a main point of contention here where it is or wasn't until the left decided to somehow blame it and a 1911 for the evil acts of an asshole.
75-85% of the nation would happily fire the plunger to kill this asshole, instead of unifying on that one point and denouncing division together the left/media thinks it gets to use this event to grab bonus territory in the culture wars.
This is not and never was about a flag it is about forcefeeding Southern whites shit.
I'm here now, the CBF is not a main point of contention here where it is or wasn't until the left decided to somehow blame it and a 1911 for the evil acts of an asshole.
75-85% of the nation would happily fire the plunger to kill this asshole, instead of unifying on that one point and denouncing division together the left/media thinks it gets to use this event to grab bonus territory in the culture wars.
This is not and never was about a flag it is about forcefeeding Southern whites shit.
Posted by: Sven S Blade a.k.a. El Assassin@sven10077 at June 22, 2015 06:14 PM (/4AZU)
910
Posted by: steve walsh at June 22, 2015 06:10 PM (6CCkt
We have ... what.... like 10 mass shootings in the last 10 years...
and that's out of more than 300 MILLION people?
So lets just change society because of those whackos...
That is how the Left operates.... we lose more people to getting struck by lighting... so next up? The call to outlaw clouds???
Take a fear.... over blow it... and the Government somehow ends up with more power... and the people less free...
THAT is the common thread of American History.
We have ... what.... like 10 mass shootings in the last 10 years...
and that's out of more than 300 MILLION people?
So lets just change society because of those whackos...
That is how the Left operates.... we lose more people to getting struck by lighting... so next up? The call to outlaw clouds???
Take a fear.... over blow it... and the Government somehow ends up with more power... and the people less free...
THAT is the common thread of American History.
Posted by: BB Wolf at June 22, 2015 06:15 PM (qh617)
911
The U.S. should have stayed out of the World Wars. Saving the Racist Imperialist British Empire wasn't in their National interests.
Posted by: Boss Moss at June 22, 2015 06:04 PM (SXQcx)
While I do think the British Empire was the greatest single political/military force for good the world has seen in its heyday, I agree that the US should not have been entangled in that nasty business.
Defeating the Germans in WW1 was a pyrrhic victory.
Posted by: Boss Moss at June 22, 2015 06:04 PM (SXQcx)
While I do think the British Empire was the greatest single political/military force for good the world has seen in its heyday, I agree that the US should not have been entangled in that nasty business.
Defeating the Germans in WW1 was a pyrrhic victory.
Posted by: Reactionary at June 22, 2015 06:15 PM (TsW/N)
912
I'm late to this party, but was reading/trying to keep up on my phone from the bar. Just a few thoughts:
1. I just left the bar I like to stop in at after work here in Georgia. There was some intense flag discussion going on...concerning where one of the guys was standing in relation to the flag on the 14th hole while another one was putting.
2. I grew up in West Tennessee, in a town with a very historic Synagogue. At least through the early 90s (the last time I was inside) there were three flags on display: the Stars and Stripes, the flag of Israel, and the Confederate Battle Flag. Make of that what you will. I do know that two brothers from that Synagogue rode with Forrest. There are also two Medals of Honor on display, awarded to later members of that Synagogue.
3a. I would guess that the real reason many support the flag is because they feel besieged, they feel demanded to apologize for things they never did, to view themselves, as a race, as "bad people"...
Ace, there's another element to that. We had the Palm Tree insignia of the Afrika Corps on a lot of our vehicles when I was in Iraq during OIF. Not because we supported nazism, but out of respect and admiration for the skill and discipline of German soldiers. Here's an anecdote from Desert Storm: During the Battle of 73 Easting, a captured Iraqi officer was loaded aboard a Bradley IFV for transport. He noticed a photo of Rommel taped to the bulkhead and asked about it, to which an American soldier replied, "If you'd read his book, you might not be a prisoner."
There is an element of respect for the dedication and skill of the Southern soldier who continued to fight against overwhelming odds, that factors into the overall discussion but almost always gets overlooked.
1. I just left the bar I like to stop in at after work here in Georgia. There was some intense flag discussion going on...concerning where one of the guys was standing in relation to the flag on the 14th hole while another one was putting.
2. I grew up in West Tennessee, in a town with a very historic Synagogue. At least through the early 90s (the last time I was inside) there were three flags on display: the Stars and Stripes, the flag of Israel, and the Confederate Battle Flag. Make of that what you will. I do know that two brothers from that Synagogue rode with Forrest. There are also two Medals of Honor on display, awarded to later members of that Synagogue.
3a. I would guess that the real reason many support the flag is because they feel besieged, they feel demanded to apologize for things they never did, to view themselves, as a race, as "bad people"...
Ace, there's another element to that. We had the Palm Tree insignia of the Afrika Corps on a lot of our vehicles when I was in Iraq during OIF. Not because we supported nazism, but out of respect and admiration for the skill and discipline of German soldiers. Here's an anecdote from Desert Storm: During the Battle of 73 Easting, a captured Iraqi officer was loaded aboard a Bradley IFV for transport. He noticed a photo of Rommel taped to the bulkhead and asked about it, to which an American soldier replied, "If you'd read his book, you might not be a prisoner."
There is an element of respect for the dedication and skill of the Southern soldier who continued to fight against overwhelming odds, that factors into the overall discussion but almost always gets overlooked.
Posted by: Country Singer at June 22, 2015 06:15 PM (nL0sw)
913
904 Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at June 22, 2015 06:12 PM (kdS6q)
That red white and blue piece of cloth offends the fuck out of me....
//Geronimo
That red white and blue piece of cloth offends the fuck out of me....
//Geronimo
Posted by: Sven S Blade a.k.a. El Assassin@sven10077 at June 22, 2015 06:15 PM (/4AZU)
914
> there was nothing honorable or noble about the confederacy
So I guess there was nothing honorable or noble about George Washington or Thomas Jefferson either? Or about any of the Founders who supported the Constitution, which allowed slavery?
Pro-Tip: This post is a perfect example of how conservatives keep losing ground to the Left. I don't want to read any of the bloggers here bitching about what a bunch of gutless cowards the establishment GOP is, when this is your response to a complete non sequitur of insincere media-created outrage against a piece of cloth.
So I guess there was nothing honorable or noble about George Washington or Thomas Jefferson either? Or about any of the Founders who supported the Constitution, which allowed slavery?
Pro-Tip: This post is a perfect example of how conservatives keep losing ground to the Left. I don't want to read any of the bloggers here bitching about what a bunch of gutless cowards the establishment GOP is, when this is your response to a complete non sequitur of insincere media-created outrage against a piece of cloth.
Posted by: Justfactualthings at June 22, 2015 06:15 PM (oCxXI)
915
"Jim Crow was unfair, but it was not illogical. What is despicable from the comfortable distance we enjoy did not look the same way at ground zero. "
It was despicable to a number of people at ground zero. Still is.
It was despicable to a number of people at ground zero. Still is.
Posted by: Chris Balsz at June 22, 2015 06:15 PM (8rRE+)
916
Heritage vs Hate-
Look, the flag is both. I've known people who loved that flag because the I've the South and people who fly that flag because they hate blacks.
I've lived in the South and the North and seen more racism in the North truth be told. But I can seldom get northerners to believe it because they have read the books and seen PBS.
Look, the flag is both. I've known people who loved that flag because the I've the South and people who fly that flag because they hate blacks.
I've lived in the South and the North and seen more racism in the North truth be told. But I can seldom get northerners to believe it because they have read the books and seen PBS.
Posted by: typo dynamofo at June 22, 2015 06:16 PM (i7JE3)
Posted by: Justfactualthings at June 22, 2015 06:17 PM (oCxXI)
918
907 So any opinions on instant grits?
---
All grits are disgusting. All of them. Put cheese on 'em, serve 'em with shrimp, whatever. It's still pretty much just wet sand.
That is the hill on which I am willing to die.
---
All grits are disgusting. All of them. Put cheese on 'em, serve 'em with shrimp, whatever. It's still pretty much just wet sand.
That is the hill on which I am willing to die.
Posted by: Jenny Hates Her Phone at June 22, 2015 06:17 PM (nQW20)
919
918 even cheesy 'srimp grits?
Posted by: Weasel at June 22, 2015 06:19 PM (e3bId)
920
909 BINGO. The vast majority of white people in South Carolina really don't give two shits about the flag any more, they just want people from out of state to quit telling them why they are Bad People and Stupid Toothless Evil Racist Rednecks and why people from the Northeast have to come down and tell them what to do.
Posted by: Moose4 at June 22, 2015 06:19 PM (O4XaS)
921
Pro-Tip: This post is a perfect example of how conservatives keep
losing ground to the Left. I don't want to read any of the bloggers here
bitching about what a bunch of gutless cowards the establishment GOP
is, when this is your response to a complete non sequitur of insincere
media-created outrage against a piece of cloth.
Well said.
Pro-Tip: This post is a perfect example of how conservatives keep
losing ground to the Left. I don't want to read any of the bloggers here
bitching about what a bunch of gutless cowards the establishment GOP
is, when this is your response to a complete non sequitur of insincere
media-created outrage against a piece of cloth.
Well said.
Posted by: typo dynamofo at June 22, 2015 06:19 PM (i7JE3)
922
Leave the flag up. It's where it belongs.
Posted by: Moose4 at June 22, 2015 06:08 PM (O4XaS)
Hhrrummpph Hhrrummpph!
(and I'm a Northerner)
Posted by: Moose4 at June 22, 2015 06:08 PM (O4XaS)
Hhrrummpph Hhrrummpph!
(and I'm a Northerner)
Posted by: Skip at June 22, 2015 06:19 PM (Bbm7F)
923
This thread is awesome?
I spent several years in the South and talked to and got to know thousands of people. What I learned? There are wonderful, generous, hospitable people in the South, and there are horrible, selfish, greedy people in the South. There are enlightened people who don't care about Race, and there are people for whom race is an overriding concern. Some of the nasty people didn't care about race, and some of the nice people were quite racist.
In sum: the South is much like the rest of the world.
I spent several years in the South and talked to and got to know thousands of people. What I learned? There are wonderful, generous, hospitable people in the South, and there are horrible, selfish, greedy people in the South. There are enlightened people who don't care about Race, and there are people for whom race is an overriding concern. Some of the nasty people didn't care about race, and some of the nice people were quite racist.
In sum: the South is much like the rest of the world.
Posted by: Turd Ferguson at June 22, 2015 06:20 PM (VAsIq)
924
Pro-Tip: This post is a perfect example of how conservatives keep losing ground to the Left. I don't want to read any of the bloggers here bitching about what a bunch of gutless cowards the establishment GOP is, when this is your response to a complete non sequitur of insincere media-created outrage against a piece of cloth.]
Posted by: Justfactualthings at June 22, 2015 06:15 PM (oCxXI)
Pro tip: Some of us actually believe that celebrating the Confederacy on public property is a bad thing. Whether the left agrees with me or not on that is irrelevant. I'm not going to change my mind just because liberals happened to have stumbled into the correct position on something.
Posted by: Justfactualthings at June 22, 2015 06:15 PM (oCxXI)
Pro tip: Some of us actually believe that celebrating the Confederacy on public property is a bad thing. Whether the left agrees with me or not on that is irrelevant. I'm not going to change my mind just because liberals happened to have stumbled into the correct position on something.
Posted by: DrewM. at June 22, 2015 06:22 PM (vUom4)
925
> there was nothing honorable or noble about the confederacy
-----------
So I guess there was nothing honorable or noble about George Washington or Thomas Jefferson either? Or about any of the Founders who supported the Constitution, which allowed slavery?
Posted by: Justfactualthings
He never said there were no noble people in the Confederacy, he said the CSA was contemptible. All the yelling about states' rights doesn't change the fact that the right the Southern states were most concerned with from the very beginning of this nation were those keeping blacks subjugated.
-----------
So I guess there was nothing honorable or noble about George Washington or Thomas Jefferson either? Or about any of the Founders who supported the Constitution, which allowed slavery?
Posted by: Justfactualthings
He never said there were no noble people in the Confederacy, he said the CSA was contemptible. All the yelling about states' rights doesn't change the fact that the right the Southern states were most concerned with from the very beginning of this nation were those keeping blacks subjugated.
Posted by: Turd Ferguson at June 22, 2015 06:24 PM (VAsIq)
Posted by: just saying at June 22, 2015 06:24 PM (wkuqO)
927
Posted by: Turd Ferguson at June 22, 2015 06:20 PM (VAsIq)
On average, people tend to be...average.
On average, people tend to be...average.
Posted by: DrewM. at June 22, 2015 06:25 PM (vUom4)
928
Here's a question for our Yankee friends. What would you all do if every Southern now in the US military quit?
You all would be shit out of luck. Over half of all the military are Southern, more of the Officers.
So why don't you brave Yankees fight for your nation anymore?
Just a question.
You all would be shit out of luck. Over half of all the military are Southern, more of the Officers.
So why don't you brave Yankees fight for your nation anymore?
Just a question.
Posted by: Nip Sip at June 22, 2015 06:25 PM (0FSuD)
929
One thing I forgot to mention: Part of the compromise in 1999 when SC took the Confederate flag off the Statehouse dome and put the ANV battle flag up at the Memorial? The state had to add a statue of the Revuhnd Jesse Jaaaaackson to the grounds. No shit. He was born in Greenville, SC. And y'know what? Nobody really complained about it. Flags got moved, statue got constructed, everybody was happy except the professional leftist racists for whom no compromise is ever enough.
Posted by: Moose4 at June 22, 2015 06:25 PM (O4XaS)
930
Jim Crow came around 2 generations after slavery ended, mostly in response to the decision in Plessy v Ferguson, and pushed almost exclusively by progressive democrats who believed highly in eugenics.
Posted by: mynewhandle at June 22, 2015 06:12 PM (AkOaV)
Citing the logic is not the same as endorsing.
Do you really think that enough time had passed between the end of the war and 1896 to erase the bad blood? "2 generations" sounds like a long time, but really isn't that big a deal. What do you think my grandfather (WW2, Pacific Theater) had to tell me about the Japanese when I was a boy? It wasn't flattering, and we live in a pretty tolerant, live-and-let-live era.
And as for the LibDems and eugenics, they sure abandoned that fast. By the 1960s they were full on in support of state funded dysgenics, which is destroying the republic faster than their deficits and gay/trans agenda ever could.
Posted by: mynewhandle at June 22, 2015 06:12 PM (AkOaV)
Citing the logic is not the same as endorsing.
Do you really think that enough time had passed between the end of the war and 1896 to erase the bad blood? "2 generations" sounds like a long time, but really isn't that big a deal. What do you think my grandfather (WW2, Pacific Theater) had to tell me about the Japanese when I was a boy? It wasn't flattering, and we live in a pretty tolerant, live-and-let-live era.
And as for the LibDems and eugenics, they sure abandoned that fast. By the 1960s they were full on in support of state funded dysgenics, which is destroying the republic faster than their deficits and gay/trans agenda ever could.
Posted by: Reactionary at June 22, 2015 06:25 PM (TsW/N)
931
That red white and blue piece of cloth offends the fuck out of me....
//Geronimo
Posted by: Sven S Blade
Thing of it is, you see the US flag at pow-wows, even though Indians were slaughtered and effectively enslaved under that banner long after the War Between the States was over. Because the flag is a mixed symbol with a barrowfull of nuance.
But, you know -- confederate flag not so much.
That red white and blue piece of cloth offends the fuck out of me....
//Geronimo
Posted by: Sven S Blade
Thing of it is, you see the US flag at pow-wows, even though Indians were slaughtered and effectively enslaved under that banner long after the War Between the States was over. Because the flag is a mixed symbol with a barrowfull of nuance.
But, you know -- confederate flag not so much.
Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at June 22, 2015 06:26 PM (kdS6q)
932
Posted by: Reactionary at June 22, 2015 06:25 PM (TsW/N)
Yes I think enough time had passed, and I think Jim Crow laws were and are absolutely horrific.
Yes I think enough time had passed, and I think Jim Crow laws were and are absolutely horrific.
Posted by: mynewhandle at June 22, 2015 06:28 PM (AkOaV)
933
It was despicable to a number of people at ground zero. Still is.
Posted by: Chris Balsz at June 22, 2015 06:15 PM (8rRE+)
No doubt. Being a disliked minority always sucks. Though less in this country than in most. We conservatives will get our taste of it soon enough. The appetizer is being served now.
Posted by: Chris Balsz at June 22, 2015 06:15 PM (8rRE+)
No doubt. Being a disliked minority always sucks. Though less in this country than in most. We conservatives will get our taste of it soon enough. The appetizer is being served now.
Posted by: Reactionary at June 22, 2015 06:29 PM (TsW/N)
934
Flash. Race baiter Obama to speak at funeral Friday in Charleston.
Never miss an opportunity to stir the pot.
Never miss an opportunity to stir the pot.
Posted by: Nip Sip at June 22, 2015 06:29 PM (0FSuD)
935
Yes I think enough time had passed, and I think Jim Crow laws were and are absolutely horrific.
Posted by: mynewhandle at June 22, 2015 06:28 PM (AkOaV)
My heart is warmed by your righteousness. Bully for you. Happily the Jim Crow laws are long gone, never to return. Good job!
You know what I also dislike? Mass infanticide. Perhaps we should have a war over it. Or better still, some more enlightened foreigners (assuming there were any) should come here and set us straight on that matter...
Posted by: mynewhandle at June 22, 2015 06:28 PM (AkOaV)
My heart is warmed by your righteousness. Bully for you. Happily the Jim Crow laws are long gone, never to return. Good job!
You know what I also dislike? Mass infanticide. Perhaps we should have a war over it. Or better still, some more enlightened foreigners (assuming there were any) should come here and set us straight on that matter...
Posted by: Reactionary at June 22, 2015 06:31 PM (TsW/N)
936
So I guess there was nothing honorable or noble about George Washington or Thomas Jefferson either? Or about any of the Founders who supported the Constitution, which allowed slavery?
Washington and Jefferson weren't part of the Confederacy, nor were any singers of the Constitution as far as I know unless they were rather long in the tooth. They were Southerners. Of course there were honorable people in the Confederacy (I happen to admire R.E. Lee,for just one example) but let's not conflate the two things.
Washington and Jefferson weren't part of the Confederacy, nor were any singers of the Constitution as far as I know unless they were rather long in the tooth. They were Southerners. Of course there were honorable people in the Confederacy (I happen to admire R.E. Lee,for just one example) but let's not conflate the two things.
Posted by: FenelonSpoke at June 22, 2015 06:32 PM (OSs/l)
937
Pro tip: Some of us actually believe that celebrating the Confederacy on public property is a bad thing.
Posted by: DrewM.
Pro-tip: Some people are a little fuzzy on the difference between celebating and memorializing.
Pro tip: Some of us actually believe that celebrating the Confederacy on public property is a bad thing.
Posted by: DrewM.
Pro-tip: Some people are a little fuzzy on the difference between celebating and memorializing.
Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at June 22, 2015 06:33 PM (kdS6q)
Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at June 22, 2015 06:34 PM (kdS6q)
939
I'm not going to change my mind just because liberals happened to have stumbled into the correct position on something.
If you're going to use this disagreement to support leftist witchhunts, you are beyond stupid.
What, you think they'll spare you? That they can't find some other aggrieved group to use against you as they are using you against the CSA flag fliers?
Even if I was opposed to the existence and flying of the CSA flag, I'd wait for after the Leftists are crushed in defeat before fighting that battle with my allies.
Imagine if WWII US bombed the Soviet Union before the Nazis were destroyed. Dumb.
If you're going to use this disagreement to support leftist witchhunts, you are beyond stupid.
What, you think they'll spare you? That they can't find some other aggrieved group to use against you as they are using you against the CSA flag fliers?
Even if I was opposed to the existence and flying of the CSA flag, I'd wait for after the Leftists are crushed in defeat before fighting that battle with my allies.
Imagine if WWII US bombed the Soviet Union before the Nazis were destroyed. Dumb.
Posted by: ConservativeMonster at June 22, 2015 06:34 PM (0NdlF)
940
Can't believe single, homicidal lunatic can cause such a stupid debate over a flag. Its nuts.
Posted by: Ace Jr. at June 22, 2015 06:35 PM (uNpJu)
941
Thing of it is, you see the US flag at pow-wows, even though Indians were slaughtered and effectively enslaved under that banner long after the War Between the States was over. Because the flag is a mixed symbol with a barrowfull of nuance.
But, you know -- confederate flag not so much.
Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at June 22, 2015 06:26 PM (kdS6q)
Last CSA general to surrender? Stand Watie, Cherokee
But, you know -- confederate flag not so much.
Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at June 22, 2015 06:26 PM (kdS6q)
Last CSA general to surrender? Stand Watie, Cherokee
Posted by: Country Singer at June 22, 2015 06:35 PM (nL0sw)
942
Also: time to ban Southern Civil War re-enactors from federal and state land.
Because symbolism.
Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix
Heh.
Because symbolism.
Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix
Heh.
Posted by: Moderate Salami at June 22, 2015 06:35 PM (/Ho8c)
943
So I take it America is done with the whole "dissent is the highest form of patriotism" thing? It's Party Morale Officers and snitching on neighbors from here on out?
As long as we're making lists of forbidden things, I'd like a copy of the current, complete list, please. Or is the current list of things that are no longer allowed in America in it's final form, and nothing more will be added?
You know what I suspect? I suspect more things are going to be added to that list. A lot more, and soon.
More and more and more until no one can keep track of it all, and then the list will simply be "whatever the guys with the machineguns and the snappy uniforms say the list happens to be, today."
And then we will finally be able to stop wondering how it is all going to play out.
As long as we're making lists of forbidden things, I'd like a copy of the current, complete list, please. Or is the current list of things that are no longer allowed in America in it's final form, and nothing more will be added?
You know what I suspect? I suspect more things are going to be added to that list. A lot more, and soon.
More and more and more until no one can keep track of it all, and then the list will simply be "whatever the guys with the machineguns and the snappy uniforms say the list happens to be, today."
And then we will finally be able to stop wondering how it is all going to play out.
Posted by: Deputy Director Higgins at June 22, 2015 06:36 PM (4SQky)
944
And then we will finally be able to stop wondering how it is all going to play out.
Posted by: Deputy Director Higgins
I think we've seen some previews of this movie before.
Posted by: Deputy Director Higgins
I think we've seen some previews of this movie before.
Posted by: Moderate Salami at June 22, 2015 06:37 PM (/Ho8c)
945
"If you're going to use this disagreement to support leftist witchhunts, you are beyond stupid.
What, you think they'll spare you? That they can't find some other aggrieved group to use against you as they are using you against the CSA flag fliers? "
Let's be dumb now because smart people will be hunted someday?
What, you think they'll spare you? That they can't find some other aggrieved group to use against you as they are using you against the CSA flag fliers? "
Let's be dumb now because smart people will be hunted someday?
Posted by: Chris Balsz at June 22, 2015 06:38 PM (8rRE+)
946
There's something wrong with anyone who looks back on the Confederacy
with pride. That "something" is usually little more than willful
ignorance of history, but the fact remains- if not for the desire to
continue the injustice of slavery, there Conferderacy and Civil War
would not have existed.
HP you and Jenny should do a little light reading on Federalism and States rights.
For the 10,000 th time : Most Southerners did not own slaves. They feared the Northern invasion and the abrogation of their own choices based on the whims of Washington DC.
If you are too stupid to see that , then bless you both.
with pride. That "something" is usually little more than willful
ignorance of history, but the fact remains- if not for the desire to
continue the injustice of slavery, there Conferderacy and Civil War
would not have existed.
HP you and Jenny should do a little light reading on Federalism and States rights.
For the 10,000 th time : Most Southerners did not own slaves. They feared the Northern invasion and the abrogation of their own choices based on the whims of Washington DC.
If you are too stupid to see that , then bless you both.
Posted by: some random meathead - capitulation is the future! at June 22, 2015 06:38 PM (GxHdH)
Posted by: some random meathead - capitulation is the future! at June 22, 2015 06:39 PM (GxHdH)
948
Actually, this Yankee and the rest of said Yankee's family has, for the generations we have been here, which does vary, has taken the oath and fought for this country.
We've even been highly decorated...and saved Southern lives before (I know, shocking huh?). Now, to be serious: really? you went there? are we not all Americans? you know: united we stand, divided we fall?
But this is proving a point: this whole flag thing is a distraction and a clever piece of crowd control (I think "balkanization" is the appropriate term; perhaps "divide and conquer" a fitting phrase).
And for other comments above: don't for one minute think that the progressives/liberals/Democrats/whatever they are calling themselves now ever gave up on eugenics -- they just try by new methods and perhaps aim for a larger segment of the populace (here's a hint: by making people think they are nice, good, caring people who are doing what is best). Evil never just goes away; it never will.
We've even been highly decorated...and saved Southern lives before (I know, shocking huh?). Now, to be serious: really? you went there? are we not all Americans? you know: united we stand, divided we fall?
But this is proving a point: this whole flag thing is a distraction and a clever piece of crowd control (I think "balkanization" is the appropriate term; perhaps "divide and conquer" a fitting phrase).
And for other comments above: don't for one minute think that the progressives/liberals/Democrats/whatever they are calling themselves now ever gave up on eugenics -- they just try by new methods and perhaps aim for a larger segment of the populace (here's a hint: by making people think they are nice, good, caring people who are doing what is best). Evil never just goes away; it never will.
Posted by: unknown j. at June 22, 2015 06:44 PM (0EjYp)
949
I could not care two rat shits about the Confederate Battle Flag of the Army of Northern Virgina (cuz that is the flag they are really talking about) is taken down or not.
It could be the actual CSA flag (the Stars and Bars) and I still would not care.
Know why?
Because it is the flag of LOOOOZERS! That's right.. They LOST. The CSA and everything is fought for LOST..
Now.. for anyone listening.. this is a distraction. the MSM wants people talking and watching THIS DEBATE, because there are no ratings in forgiveness.
It could be the actual CSA flag (the Stars and Bars) and I still would not care.
Know why?
Because it is the flag of LOOOOZERS! That's right.. They LOST. The CSA and everything is fought for LOST..
Now.. for anyone listening.. this is a distraction. the MSM wants people talking and watching THIS DEBATE, because there are no ratings in forgiveness.
Posted by: just a bored dude that needs a job at June 22, 2015 06:45 PM (jJn7d)
950
For all the holier than thou Northern apologists..
From HR's very timely link at 787http://tinyurl.com/o3ocn9v
In 1703, 42 percent of New York's households had slaves
From HR's very timely link at 787http://tinyurl.com/o3ocn9v
In 1703, 42 percent of New York's households had slaves
Posted by: some random meathead - capitulation is the future! at June 22, 2015 06:45 PM (GxHdH)
951
In a related story, re-runs of The Dukes of Hazzard have been banned until the Flag of Evil can be CGI'd off the General Lee.
In a related story, re-runs of The Dukes of Hazzard have been banned until the Flag of Evil can be CGI'd off the General Lee.
Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at June 22, 2015 06:48 PM (kdS6q)
Posted by: Chris Balsz at June 22, 2015 06:50 PM (8rRE+)
953
Posted by: some random meathead - capitulation is the future! at June 22, 2015 06:38 PM (GxHdH)
Which "states rights" other than protection of their "peculiar institution" do you imagine Confederate states were fighting for?
Which "states rights" other than protection of their "peculiar institution" do you imagine Confederate states were fighting for?
Posted by: DrewM. at June 22, 2015 06:50 PM (vUom4)
954
In 1703, 42 percent of New York's households had slaves"
I'd haul down their flag, too.
----------------
We did... it was still a British Colony....
I'd haul down their flag, too.
----------------
We did... it was still a British Colony....
Posted by: just a bored dude that needs a job at June 22, 2015 06:51 PM (jJn7d)
955
Also, this was once our country's media:
They Died with Their Boots On (1941) - 'Dixie' at West Point
https://youtu.be/CRHtjjDslKI
Also, this was once our country's media:
They Died with Their Boots On (1941) - 'Dixie' at West Point
https://youtu.be/CRHtjjDslKI
Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at June 22, 2015 06:52 PM (kdS6q)
956
"Which "states rights" other than protection of their "peculiar institution" do you imagine Confederate states were fighting for?"
The people making that argument in the 21st century have a list of 20th century complaints against Washington that they want to claim were at issue in the 19th century.
The people making that argument in the 21st century have a list of 20th century complaints against Washington that they want to claim were at issue in the 19th century.
Posted by: Chris Balsz at June 22, 2015 06:56 PM (8rRE+)
957
The flag of the separatists in Ukraine, "Novorossiya", or New Russia, also shoulder patches for their "volunteers"
http://tinyurl.com/qhehoee
http://tinyurl.com/qhehoee
Posted by: JHW at June 22, 2015 06:59 PM (w+zdY)
958
If it were only about slavery, why didn't they think of a minimum wage law?
Posted by: just saying at June 22, 2015 07:03 PM (wkuqO)
959
So how many Confederate flags get sold in Chicago? them white butchers is on a rampage up there.
Oh, wait...
Oh, wait...
Posted by: Richard McEnroe at June 22, 2015 07:05 PM (lZnV+)
960
Drew you're black and white bipolar stance will not let you see the truth. You and the other Northern moralists are determined that Lincoln's political power play grabbing centralized power and reducing the power and representation of the state's is totally different from what has happened since.
We are a poorer nation because instead of allowing the dying institution of slavery to end in the South, Lincoln and his imperialist Yankee hordes invaded , burned and destroyed the homes and lands of innocents on the pretext of "morality".
What a joke.
Obama is a direct descendant of Lincoln's mindset.
Pray he doesn't decide that guns are immoral and invade your home.
We are a poorer nation because instead of allowing the dying institution of slavery to end in the South, Lincoln and his imperialist Yankee hordes invaded , burned and destroyed the homes and lands of innocents on the pretext of "morality".
What a joke.
Obama is a direct descendant of Lincoln's mindset.
Pray he doesn't decide that guns are immoral and invade your home.
Posted by: some random meathead - capitulation is the future! at June 22, 2015 07:15 PM (GxHdH)
961
I'm from East Texas so maybe my view is warped. In Texaswe just don't fly the thing as much as they do in the east. The Texans who fought for the CSA back East fought under the Texas Flag and the bonnie blue, in Texas the state flag was more common anyway so that is what we fly. SC already had a distinctive flag, it doesn't look half bad. I thought the war was supposed to be about States' Rights, but in Charleston they seem to really be talking about something else, but then the whole damn war was their idea so maybe they know best.
I will say that in Idaho I see an awful lot more of the Stars and Bars than I do in Texas. It sure isn't about Southern Heritage out here.
As to Idaho
I will say that in Idaho I see an awful lot more of the Stars and Bars than I do in Texas. It sure isn't about Southern Heritage out here.
As to Idaho
Posted by: RoyL at June 22, 2015 07:21 PM (wdHQo)
962
but it does seem that at some point the most efficient course of action is to stop displaying the symbol, or to adopt a new one.
Didn't think I'd see that argument here. I mean - isn't that what Boehner is all about - apologizing for conservatism, and saying it won't happen again?
Didn't think I'd see that argument here. I mean - isn't that what Boehner is all about - apologizing for conservatism, and saying it won't happen again?
Posted by: One-Eyed Cat Peeping in the Seafood Store at June 22, 2015 07:24 PM (aeVIR)
963
Y'know what I don't get is how The Party of Science thinks that somehow humans are "evolving" (or are going to "evolve") some kind of "advanced" sensibilities or something that are going to preclude the formation of racist tendencies developing in the future. Straight up Gene Roddenberry stuff.
And utter bull puckey. No one is going to engineer the potential for hate out of the human animal. All the progs have to do is look into a mirror to see this. Honestly, that is.
Yeah, stop laughing.
And utter bull puckey. No one is going to engineer the potential for hate out of the human animal. All the progs have to do is look into a mirror to see this. Honestly, that is.
Yeah, stop laughing.
Posted by: dissent555 at June 22, 2015 07:40 PM (yR6A1)
964
Ace: "Sure, you can keep explaining to people that this symbol does not symbol what most would take it to symbolize... but it does seem that at some point the most efficient course of action is to stop displaying the symbol, or to adopt a new one."
________
Some excellent points, Ace, and a solid argument. I'm convinced that the Confederate flag must stay in place.
Not long ago (2005-ish) the word "Texas" was such a symbol that, if used favorably, could have plausibly meant to signal support for George Bush and his wars. "I'd like to visit the WWII Naval Museum in Texas." "My aunt sent me a box of grapefruit from Texas." I'd say something like that and people's attitudes would change; talk would change to politics, or people would clam up altogether.
Nuts to that.
________
Some excellent points, Ace, and a solid argument. I'm convinced that the Confederate flag must stay in place.
Not long ago (2005-ish) the word "Texas" was such a symbol that, if used favorably, could have plausibly meant to signal support for George Bush and his wars. "I'd like to visit the WWII Naval Museum in Texas." "My aunt sent me a box of grapefruit from Texas." I'd say something like that and people's attitudes would change; talk would change to politics, or people would clam up altogether.
Nuts to that.
Posted by: FireHorse at June 22, 2015 07:46 PM (JlbLj)
965
I get family pride, but I don't get how some people take this to mean that obvious moral crimes have to be defended or sort of soft-pedaled, due to honor to the family. Ace
I don't see anyone here defending or soft-pedaling obvious moral crimes.
I don't see anyone here defending or soft-pedaling obvious moral crimes.
Posted by: Actinide at June 22, 2015 07:51 PM (+1unU)
966
965 Posted by: Actinide at June 22, 2015 07:51 PM (+1unU)
75-85% of the GOP would fire that plunger to fast train his ass off the planet for what he did....
I only apologize he wasn't driven to suicide by his peer group here in South Carolina before he murdered 9 people guilty of simply breathing....
Generation Tippy Cup has some real winners in it.
75-85% of the GOP would fire that plunger to fast train his ass off the planet for what he did....
I only apologize he wasn't driven to suicide by his peer group here in South Carolina before he murdered 9 people guilty of simply breathing....
Generation Tippy Cup has some real winners in it.
Posted by: Sven S Blade a.k.a. El Assassin@sven10077 at June 22, 2015 07:54 PM (/4AZU)
967
However, i do think that leftists love this stuff-Northerners and Southerners at each others throats with people refigting the CivilWar/War of Northern Aggression. Yeeeee haaaa. We can't all be people who loathe the Obama administration and who support the Consititution. We must be our little separate camps
Let's Balkanize us further-because whatever one feels about the SC flag or whose side great great great granddaddy fought in the 1860's is much more important than conservatives all across the US standing together against the abuses of the Obama administration and the malignancy of leftist totalitarians./sarc.
Let's Balkanize us further-because whatever one feels about the SC flag or whose side great great great granddaddy fought in the 1860's is much more important than conservatives all across the US standing together against the abuses of the Obama administration and the malignancy of leftist totalitarians./sarc.
Posted by: FenelonSpoke at June 22, 2015 07:58 PM (OSs/l)
968
So here's the thing: isn't it kind of convenient to be able to immediately spot the potential racists by the flag they fly? Kind of like banning the n-word--isn't it handy to be able to tell in a word if the person you're talking to is a bigot? It's much easier to avoid these types of people if they identify themselves so quickly.
Shaming 'wrong' words and flags out of existence means you just have less information to go on.
Shaming 'wrong' words and flags out of existence means you just have less information to go on.
Posted by: Average Jen at June 22, 2015 08:23 PM (isuG/)
969
almost to 1000
Posted by: Skip at June 22, 2015 08:27 PM (Bbm7F)
970
What flag should/would/will fly over the Confederate War Memorial in SC?
The Stars and Stripes doesn't seem appropriate.
Some flag should fly but which one?
The Stars and Stripes doesn't seem appropriate.
Some flag should fly but which one?
Posted by: goatweed at June 22, 2015 08:28 PM (8HrdX)
971
If Barry had his way I think it would be a black flag with white Arabic writing.
Posted by: Skip at June 22, 2015 08:37 PM (Bbm7F)
972
It's not my flag, and it's not my state, so if they want to take it down that's fine with me.
But, you know, if this is the most important burning race issue this country has to solve RFN, then evidently we're doing pretty good in that department. In fact we're doing so good that the professional race hustlers have to bitch about trivial BS like this just to keep people from forgetting their names.
But, you know, if this is the most important burning race issue this country has to solve RFN, then evidently we're doing pretty good in that department. In fact we're doing so good that the professional race hustlers have to bitch about trivial BS like this just to keep people from forgetting their names.
Posted by: Socratease at June 22, 2015 08:44 PM (82qVG)
973
I am told I must respect the people who burn the American flag and curse the republic. I am told I must not offend these people who dislike the Confederate flag.
We are told that there are those who do not feel comfortable in the homes of people who do flag such a flag.
Well pardon me all to hell, I feel put off by such intolerance and racism. I am offended by those who lecture me about what to honor or not to respect.
I hear it from the Muzzies. I will not tolerate them. I will not tolerate a bunch of little people.
We are told that there are those who do not feel comfortable in the homes of people who do flag such a flag.
Well pardon me all to hell, I feel put off by such intolerance and racism. I am offended by those who lecture me about what to honor or not to respect.
I hear it from the Muzzies. I will not tolerate them. I will not tolerate a bunch of little people.
Posted by: Veritas at June 22, 2015 08:57 PM (tPtDI)
974
looks like the hippies win again
If the flag stayed up businesses would squak
If the flag stayed up businesses would squak
Posted by: righter at June 22, 2015 08:58 PM (r6HrP)
975
The way thing are going, at what point does the Crucifix become a symbol of hate and is banned from public display? This is a slippery slope.
Posted by: unfatmatt at June 22, 2015 09:02 PM (kyTFr)
Posted by: Reality Man at June 22, 2015 09:09 PM (BNEdd)
Posted by: Reality Man at June 22, 2015 09:09 PM (BNEdd)
978
> The American Revolution was fought, however imperfectly, to expand and codify human freedom. The Confederates fought to restrict that freedom.
This is what liberals actually believe.
This is what liberals actually believe.
Posted by: Justfactualthings at June 22, 2015 09:18 PM (oCxXI)
979
Just like dealing with kids. You do realize the next oppressive symbol that will have to be taken down because it symbolizes racism? Yes, all them crosses at churches that remind people of the history of cross burning. Not a problem, let's keep throwing away our free speech rights just as long as we are stepping on the right toes when we do it.
Posted by: doug at June 22, 2015 09:36 PM (IYEs/)
Posted by: Justfactualthings at June 22, 2015 09:38 PM (oCxXI)
981
Lincoln couldn't have raised the huge armies he did, period, if he hadn't had "recruiters" waiting at the docks of each arriving load of Irish or German immigrants.
Posted by: Richard McEnroe at June 22, 2015 09:41 PM (Kucy5)
982
Ah sure am glad y'all aren't blaming me for gallivanting around the countryside with my Cavalry when I should have been providing intel and serving as the eyes and ears to General Lee at the Battle of Gettysburg. Land sakes, if'n I had done my job properly, y'all would all be speaking with a delightful, syrupy drawl.
Posted by: J.E.B. Stuart at June 22, 2015 09:44 PM (hRytD)
983
It wasn't the War of Northern Aggression. It was the War of Southern Stupidity. Remember South Carolina fired the first shots. They were the aggressors and they attacked an enemy with twice the population and God knows how many times the industrial capacity, while 45% of their population wasn't even allowed to bear arms. There was no way they were going to win.
Posted by: chad at June 22, 2015 09:44 PM (gYowz)
Posted by: Justfactualthings at June 22, 2015 09:48 PM (oCxXI)
985
936:
The point is, Washington and Jefferson both owned slaves. If the CSA was utterly evil for allowing slavery, then so were the people who owned slaves, and so were the Framers of the Constitution, which also allowed slavery.
The point is, Washington and Jefferson both owned slaves. If the CSA was utterly evil for allowing slavery, then so were the people who owned slaves, and so were the Framers of the Constitution, which also allowed slavery.
Posted by: Justfactualthings at June 22, 2015 09:50 PM (oCxXI)
986
So, the Dukes of Hazzard were Nazis? I thought they were just good ole' boys never meaning no harm.
Posted by: Tattoo De Plane at June 22, 2015 10:06 PM (df8rK)
987
"No, actually, this is a German Army shirt from two years before Hitler rose to power."
I'm fairly sure the uniform that freed the slaves and the uniform that wiped out the Ghost Dancers was the same one--Federal Blue. And is the one Dempsey is trying to harken back to. Quite rightly.
The Union Jack that maintained the African anti-slavery slave patrols and rolled into Arnhem to force the Nazis out was (bascially) the same one that carried many to the New World in chains.
A thing can be more than one thing at a time.
I'm fairly sure the uniform that freed the slaves and the uniform that wiped out the Ghost Dancers was the same one--Federal Blue. And is the one Dempsey is trying to harken back to. Quite rightly.
The Union Jack that maintained the African anti-slavery slave patrols and rolled into Arnhem to force the Nazis out was (bascially) the same one that carried many to the New World in chains.
A thing can be more than one thing at a time.
Posted by: Old Guy at June 22, 2015 10:24 PM (UKhBB)
988
I'm Southern born and bred and that stupid flag is dear to us. So, I'm in the FU crowd.
Posted by: OutspokenRed at June 22, 2015 10:40 PM (BhtTT)
989
First of all, I think it would've been a classy move for the folks in charge of the flagpole at the Carolina capital to lower it to half-mast "as a gesture of solidarity and respect for our Fellow Christians who were so foully murdered." And saying for such an occasion, the rule that the battle flag isn't lowered could be held in abeyance as a courtesy.
BUT: if we let the Damnyankees and Liberal Birdbrains force us to give up the old flag, we're agreeing with their False Premise: that the many are guilty of the sins of One Evil Man.
Oh, and FUCK THEM anyway. Damn bigots. They're always shitting on our heads and calling it fertilizer.
BUT: if we let the Damnyankees and Liberal Birdbrains force us to give up the old flag, we're agreeing with their False Premise: that the many are guilty of the sins of One Evil Man.
Oh, and FUCK THEM anyway. Damn bigots. They're always shitting on our heads and calling it fertilizer.
Posted by: Beverly at June 23, 2015 01:30 AM (8wjF/)
990
Wow. Those are some lofty ideals coming from someone who supports anarchy, theft, rape, slavery and murder.
You do know that's the whole point of piracy, right? So, why adopt that symbol for your website?
You do know that's the whole point of piracy, right? So, why adopt that symbol for your website?
Posted by: qzy at June 23, 2015 01:31 AM (VgrwQ)
991
The Klan used the cross in their cross-burnings -- should we give up displaying the cross, too?
Re slavery: 98% of white Southerners in 1860 did NOT own slaves, per the 1860 US Census.
So no, for the millionth time, the war between the states was not fought "for slavery," but for Southern independence from the overpowering North. Yes, the planters kicked it off and arguably lit the fuse, but the gunpowder was the vast majority of Southerners who were fed up with being pushed around by the Federal Government (sound familiar? and why do you think the Left hates the South extra double-plus?).
Look up H.L. Mencken's remarks on the Gettysburg Address: you will be shocked.
Re slavery: 98% of white Southerners in 1860 did NOT own slaves, per the 1860 US Census.
So no, for the millionth time, the war between the states was not fought "for slavery," but for Southern independence from the overpowering North. Yes, the planters kicked it off and arguably lit the fuse, but the gunpowder was the vast majority of Southerners who were fed up with being pushed around by the Federal Government (sound familiar? and why do you think the Left hates the South extra double-plus?).
Look up H.L. Mencken's remarks on the Gettysburg Address: you will be shocked.
Posted by: Beverly at June 23, 2015 01:35 AM (8wjF/)
992
Speaking of Nazis, you occasionally see a Confederate flag in East Berlin (skinhead territory).
Why do you suppose that is? Are there a lot of sentimental Lost Cause enthusiasts? Or are they displaying a racist symbol as a substitute for another symbol that's illegal to display?
To most of the world, the obvious meaning of the Confederate flag is the only meaning. If you've got a deep love for Southern history in a non racist way, you really ought to find a new symbol, because this one's taken.
Why do you suppose that is? Are there a lot of sentimental Lost Cause enthusiasts? Or are they displaying a racist symbol as a substitute for another symbol that's illegal to display?
To most of the world, the obvious meaning of the Confederate flag is the only meaning. If you've got a deep love for Southern history in a non racist way, you really ought to find a new symbol, because this one's taken.
Posted by: Zach at June 23, 2015 02:06 AM (Tr+Z0)
993
That's right, you Republicans keep insulting Southerners. Maybe we would be better off just going along with the leftists. Go on with your insults. And lose the South. Then what will you have? Oh, and Fuck You!
Posted by: Case, Mors Semper Tyrannis at June 23, 2015 02:22 AM (I0sxh)
994
I'm not saying it's like a Nazi symbol. I'm saying actual Nazis use it, as a symbol.
Posted by: Zach at June 23, 2015 02:24 AM (Tr+Z0)
995
Actual National Socialists also took over the Hindu swastika. So the Hindus should all jump in a hole and cover themselves with guilt and dirt?
SOBs will use whatever the hell symbol they want to give the finger to the rest of us. And do.
SOBs will use whatever the hell symbol they want to give the finger to the rest of us. And do.
Posted by: Beverly at June 23, 2015 02:55 AM (8wjF/)
996
And those modern Nazi-wannabes were listening to the South-haters when it comes to what the Army of Virginia battle flag "means." Just like Muslims listen to America-haters about what the American flag "means."
Posted by: Beverly at June 23, 2015 02:57 AM (8wjF/)
997
Both Abraham Lincoln and Ulysses Grant were war criminals. How about we take down their memorials and remove their filthy faces from our currency?
Posted by: qzy at June 23, 2015 03:06 AM (VgrwQ)
998
I think the gist of this post is, "Your symbols are meaningless to me. Thereofore, I don't mind sacrificing them to the Left."
Well, I'll try my best to return the favor when they come after something you do care about. And, you know they will.
Well, I'll try my best to return the favor when they come after something you do care about. And, you know they will.
Posted by: qzy at June 23, 2015 03:13 AM (VgrwQ)
999
I grew up less than a mile from the MD/VA border. My family comes from the north but moved here well after the war. So i have no dog in this fight.
I used to live in an apartment that had swastika tiles on the floor along with other random symbols, the building was built in the 1920s so the swastika at the time was just a random symbol from india.
I didn't think they should tear up the floor of this historic building because some people would be offended; but at the same time I wouldn't fly a flag with the hindu swastika on it and act all butthurt when people got offended.
My point is...Is it really that big of a deal to sell the land with the memorial to some private group, or move it to private land across the street? This shouldnt be so complicated.
I used to live in an apartment that had swastika tiles on the floor along with other random symbols, the building was built in the 1920s so the swastika at the time was just a random symbol from india.
I didn't think they should tear up the floor of this historic building because some people would be offended; but at the same time I wouldn't fly a flag with the hindu swastika on it and act all butthurt when people got offended.
My point is...Is it really that big of a deal to sell the land with the memorial to some private group, or move it to private land across the street? This shouldnt be so complicated.
Posted by: BSR at June 23, 2015 04:49 AM (ai5c7)
1000
Oh, and also....1000!
Posted by: BSR at June 23, 2015 04:58 AM (ai5c7)
1001
Sure, you can keep explaining to people that this symbol does not symbol
what most would take it to symbolize... but it does seem that at some
point the most efficient course of action is to stop displaying the
symbol, or to adopt a new one.
Posted by: Ace at 03:51 PM
Or, you can stick with the whole f*** you thing. I'm going with that.
Sure, you can keep explaining to people that this symbol does not symbol
what most would take it to symbolize... but it does seem that at some
point the most efficient course of action is to stop displaying the
symbol, or to adopt a new one.
Posted by: Ace at 03:51 PM
Or, you can stick with the whole f*** you thing. I'm going with that.
Posted by: DFCtomm at June 23, 2015 05:51 AM (wkeQX)
1002
Don't appease the mob.
Posted by: MC Slammer at June 23, 2015 09:07 AM (eKIg1)
1003
There is one overwhelming reason to keep the flag. This reason trumps all of the hoary leftist boilerplate: that it's a symbol of slavery, it offends Blacks, it stands in the way of all of us joining together for the world's largest circle jerk, etc.
The flag should stay exactly where it is. We should refuse to move it simply because the Leftists demand that it be removed.
Every time the Leftists get their panties in a bind and start to stomp their little feet, we fold up like cheap umbrellas. We need to recognize reality: that every time we surrender, even on the most minor of issues, the agenda of the Left is advanced and ours retreats. The Overton Window moves another inch to the left.
Republican politicians, here's some news for you. Caving in to this will win you nothing politically. Absolutely nothing. The Leftists will still hate you. The professional agitators will still agitate against you. The MSM will still call you racists. What will also happen is that your base will have just a bit less respect for you. A few more Republican voters will stay home. A few less dollars will find their way into your campaign coffers. In three weeks this entire incident will be forgotten, except by the base. We remember.
Ask yourselves, why does the Left pursue the tactic of sic'ing the mob on Conservatives? Because Conservatives fear the mob. They do it because it works.
The Left will keep taking your lunch money until you stand up to them, it's that simple.
The flag should stay exactly where it is. We should refuse to move it simply because the Leftists demand that it be removed.
Every time the Leftists get their panties in a bind and start to stomp their little feet, we fold up like cheap umbrellas. We need to recognize reality: that every time we surrender, even on the most minor of issues, the agenda of the Left is advanced and ours retreats. The Overton Window moves another inch to the left.
Republican politicians, here's some news for you. Caving in to this will win you nothing politically. Absolutely nothing. The Leftists will still hate you. The professional agitators will still agitate against you. The MSM will still call you racists. What will also happen is that your base will have just a bit less respect for you. A few more Republican voters will stay home. A few less dollars will find their way into your campaign coffers. In three weeks this entire incident will be forgotten, except by the base. We remember.
Ask yourselves, why does the Left pursue the tactic of sic'ing the mob on Conservatives? Because Conservatives fear the mob. They do it because it works.
The Left will keep taking your lunch money until you stand up to them, it's that simple.
Posted by: MC Slammer at June 23, 2015 09:43 AM (eKIg1)
1004
No blacks were ever brought to the USA as slaves on ships flying either the Confederate Flag or the battle flag. Most of the slave ships to the USA flew the Stars & Stripes.
Maybe it should be removed from public places as well?
Maybe it should be removed from public places as well?
Posted by: RFYoung at June 23, 2015 10:06 AM (WqZCc)
1005
"That's right, you Republicans keep insulting Southerners. Maybe we would
be better off just going along with the leftists. Go on with your
insults. And lose the South. Then what will you have?"
How are you being insulted? Oh yeah, by politely pointing out that, yeeeeah, your flag (and rebellion) were about slavery.
We've already lost the country, so some of us are no longer afraid to tell to your face what whiny losers you are. Why are you even in the Party of Lincoln?! I've heard a lot of laughable stuff from neo-confeds, like Lincoln was more in fault for big government then FDR or Wilson or LBJ, or all kinds of deliberate mixing of Lincoln's personal and political thoughts to make him seem like a tyrant.
In closing, take your ball and go home to the Left so you can sabotage them for once.
be better off just going along with the leftists. Go on with your
insults. And lose the South. Then what will you have?"
How are you being insulted? Oh yeah, by politely pointing out that, yeeeeah, your flag (and rebellion) were about slavery.
We've already lost the country, so some of us are no longer afraid to tell to your face what whiny losers you are. Why are you even in the Party of Lincoln?! I've heard a lot of laughable stuff from neo-confeds, like Lincoln was more in fault for big government then FDR or Wilson or LBJ, or all kinds of deliberate mixing of Lincoln's personal and political thoughts to make him seem like a tyrant.
In closing, take your ball and go home to the Left so you can sabotage them for once.
Posted by: Shoot Me at June 23, 2015 10:59 AM (EQcfE)
1006
We've already lost the country, so some of us are no longer afraid
to tell to your face what whiny losers you are. Why are you even in the
Party of Lincoln?!
Because they're Americans, dumbass, unlike the Leftists.
No enemies on the Right.
to tell to your face what whiny losers you are. Why are you even in the
Party of Lincoln?!
Because they're Americans, dumbass, unlike the Leftists.
No enemies on the Right.
Posted by: ConserativeMonster, Rabid Puppy at June 23, 2015 11:54 AM (+2//H)
1007
So if a new rebellion was to begin because of Obamacare, EPA, and other government intrusions, in the end history will show it as a war caused by bigots who flew the anti-rainbow flag and fought solely based on being against gay marriage?
Get this straight - The North fought the Civil War because of slavery. The South fought the Civil War to protect it's state's rights to make law over Federal rights. Most people in the South fought the war solely to protect their families and farms and towns from the invading North - not for slavery itself.
Get this straight - The North fought the Civil War because of slavery. The South fought the Civil War to protect it's state's rights to make law over Federal rights. Most people in the South fought the war solely to protect their families and farms and towns from the invading North - not for slavery itself.
Posted by: doug at June 23, 2015 12:02 PM (IYEs/)
1008
Why do I have to look at the faces of slaveholders(Washington and Jefferson) every time I open my wallet?
That is offensive, and those evil men should be erased from History.
That is offensive, and those evil men should be erased from History.
Posted by: qzy at June 23, 2015 12:30 PM (VgrwQ)
1009
why can I still buy Black Panther - racist, homophobic, law-and-order hating separatist that they are - flags on both Ebay and Amazon? F*ck amazon, F*ck ebay.
Posted by: Erik in Texas at June 23, 2015 07:13 PM (9S0o2)
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MuNuvians
MeeNuvians
Polls! Polls! Polls!
Real Clear Politics
Gallup
Frequently Asked Questions
The (Almost) Complete Paul Anka Integrity Kick
Primary Document: The Audio
Paul Anka Haiku Contest Announcement
Integrity SAT's: Entrance Exam for Paul Anka's Band
AllahPundit's Paul Anka 45's Collection
AnkaPundit: Paul Anka Takes Over the Site for a Weekend (Continues through to Monday's postings)
George Bush Slices Don Rumsfeld Like an F*ckin' Hammer
Paul Anka Haiku Contest Announcement
Integrity SAT's: Entrance Exam for Paul Anka's Band
AllahPundit's Paul Anka 45's Collection
AnkaPundit: Paul Anka Takes Over the Site for a Weekend (Continues through to Monday's postings)
George Bush Slices Don Rumsfeld Like an F*ckin' Hammer
Top Top Tens
Democratic Forays into Erotica
New Shows On Gore's DNC/MTV Network
Nicknames for Potatoes, By People Who Really Hate Potatoes
Star Wars Euphemisms for Self-Abuse
Signs You're at an Iraqi "Wedding Party"
Signs Your Clown Has Gone Bad
Signs That You, Geroge Michael, Should Probably Just Give It Up
Signs of Hip-Hop Influence on John Kerry
NYT Headlines Spinning Bush's Jobs Boom
Things People Are More Likely to Say Than "Did You Hear What Al Franken Said Yesterday?"
Signs that Paul Krugman Has Lost His Frickin' Mind
All-Time Best NBA Players, According to Senator Robert Byrd
Other Bad Things About the Jews, According to the Koran
Signs That David Letterman Just Doesn't Care Anymore
Examples of Bob Kerrey's Insufferable Racial Jackassery
Signs Andy Rooney Is Going Senile
Other Judgments Dick Clarke Made About Condi Rice Based on Her Appearance
Collective Names for Groups of People
John Kerry's Other Vietnam Super-Pets
Cool Things About the XM8 Assault Rifle
Media-Approved Facts About the Democrat Spy
Changes to Make Christianity More "Inclusive"
Secret John Kerry Senatorial Accomplishments
John Edwards Campaign Excuses
John Kerry Pick-Up Lines
Changes Liberal Senator George Michell Will Make at Disney
Torments in Dog-Hell
Greatest Hitjobs
The Ace of Spades HQ Sex-for-Money Skankathon
A D&D Guide to the Democratic Candidates
Margaret Cho: Just Not Funny
More Margaret Cho Abuse
Margaret Cho: Still Not Funny
Iraqi Prisoner Claims He Was Raped... By Woman
Wonkette Announces "Morning Zoo" Format
John Kerry's "Plan" Causes Surrender of Moqtada al-Sadr's Militia
World Muslim Leaders Apologize for Nick Berg's Beheading
Michael Moore Goes on Lunchtime Manhattan Death-Spree
Milestone: Oliver Willis Posts 400th "Fake News Article" Referencing Britney Spears
Liberal Economists Rue a "New Decade of Greed"
Artificial Insouciance: Maureen Dowd's Word Processor Revolts Against Her Numbing Imbecility
Intelligence Officials Eye Blogs for Tips
They Done Found Us Out, Cletus: Intrepid Internet Detective Figures Out Our Master Plan
Shock: Josh Marshall Almost Mentions Sarin Discovery in Iraq
Leather-Clad Biker Freaks Terrorize Australian Town
When Clinton Was President, Torture Was Cool
What Wonkette Means When She Explains What Tina Brown Means
Wonkette's Stand-Up Act
Wankette HQ Gay-Rumors Du Jour
Here's What's Bugging Me: Goose and Slider
My Own Micah Wright Style Confession of Dishonesty
Outraged "Conservatives" React to the FMA
An On-Line Impression of Dennis Miller Having Sex with a Kodiak Bear
The Story the Rightwing Media Refuses to Report!
Our Lunch with David "Glengarry Glen Ross" Mamet
The House of Love: Paul Krugman
A Michael Moore Mystery (TM)
The Dowd-O-Matic!
Liberal Consistency and Other Myths
Kepler's Laws of Liberal Media Bias
John Kerry-- The Splunge! Candidate
"Divisive" Politics & "Attacks on Patriotism" (very long)
The Donkey ("The Raven" parody)
News/Chat