Relationship Expert: The GOP Is Doomed As a Party, Should Seek Divorce

Actually no relationship expert said that, not really.

I was observing the rift between Rand Paul and John McCain. Really the rift between Paul and most of the party, and that got me thinking about the rift between the RINOs and the Tea Partiers.

It reminded me of what relationship expert/marital counselor John Gottman called The Four Horsemen of a marriage destined for divorce.

When couples came in for counseling, he knew they were likely irreconcilable when they began showing four key signs: criticism, contempt, defensiveness, and stonewalling.

The first horseman of the apocalypse is criticism. Criticizing your partner is different than offering a critique or voicing a complaint! The latter two are about specific issues, whereas the former is an ad hominem attack: it is an attack on your partner at the core. In effect, you are dismantling his or her whole being when you criticize.
...
The second horseman is contempt. When we communicate in this state, we are truly mean - treating others with disrespect, mocking them with sarcasm, ridicule, name-calling, mimicking, and/or body language such as eye-rolling. The target of contempt is made to feel despised and worthless.

You can read the others if you like. Defensiveness is obvious enough; stonewalling is withdrawing from conflict, not giving answers to questions, etc. Basically absenting oneself from further participation in conflict resolution in a relationship.

Stonewalling basically says, "Think what you like, I'm done."

A couple of years ago I frequently chided both the Establishment and Tea Party wings to stop treating each other as hostile forces. We speak to opponents (and actual enemies) very differently from the way we speak to friends and allies with whom we have a conflict. In the latter case, we are courteous and still warm; we have a disagreement, but we're trying to find some points of agreement, because we implicitly acknowledge that the relationship is more important than the instant dispute.

We don't do that with opponents and enemies. With opponents and enemies, we can be as rude, raw, and insulting as we like, because we're unconcerned with the feelings of the opposite party. The dispute is all that matters -- there is no higher priority of maintaining friendly relations, as there are none to maintain.

I thought the Tea Partiers were getting excessively hostile and mean in their criticisms. But then the Establishment lived down to its reputation. Rather than taking the long and sober view of things -- that a political coalition depended on at least some reserve of intraparty amity -- they showed their full contempt of the Tea Party and essentially declared them enemies.

The GOP won the elections of 2014 -- and lost their future. The Establishment basically declared war on the most vital and numerous part of the coalition, and stopped even pretending to tolerate them.

We're seeing that again with the Paul/McCain dispute. Jim Geraghty notes Paul's history of "alienating hyperbole," essentially using the same sort of insulting political language we use for the other party for our own alleged allies.

Here are three recent examples:

"People here in town think I'm making a huge mistake. Some of them, I think, secretly want there to be an attack on the United States so they can blame it on me."

"ISIS exists and grew stronger because of the hawks in our party who gave arms indiscriminately, and most of those arms were snatched up by ISIS. These hawks also wanted to bomb Assad, which would have made ISIS's job even easier. They’ve created these people."

"These people who call loudest to criticize me are great proponents of President Obama’s foreign policy, and they just want to do it ten times over. I’m really the one standing up to President Obama, and these people are essentially the lapdogs for President Obama, and I think they're sensitive about that."

Meanwhile, John McCain, as egotistical and pointlessly confrontational an asshole as you could imagine, returns his own contemptuous fire.

"I know what this is about -- I think it's very clear -- this is, to some degree, a fundraising exercise," McCain said, according to Politico. "He obviously has a higher priority for his fundraising and political ambitions than for the security of the nation."

As Daniel Hannan recently wrote, when British Labour accuses British Conservative politicians of being stupid, greedy, evil, etc., they're not of course just insulting the politicians. They are also insulting the millions of people who have voted Tory, or who are considering voting Tory.

Rand Paul is not just criticizing his named enemies in the Senate, then. He's criticizing the millions of GOP voters whose instincts tend to be more conventional and interventionist than his own. And when John McCain calls Ted Cruz a "wacko bird," he is of course telling millions of GOP voters that they themselves are "wacko birds" -- worse than that, really, because at least Cruz is his own wacko bird. Cruz' fans, in McCain's insult, are merely the crude-minded follower of a wacko bird.

This is not statecraft. It's conducting a blogwar from the well of the Senate.

This reminds me of why I don't like capital-L Libertarians. Put to one side the policy differences, which in the main are not a source of actual emotional discord as policy differences can in fact be discussed dispassionately, intellectually, coolly.

I don't like capital-L Libertarians because they approach conservatives like myself with actual open contempt with a dismissive and demeaning hostility, and I do not think this is just some accident or character defect.

Rather, and this is the important thing, I believe that that open contemptuousness is not merely a defect, but an essential, foundational part of capital-L Libertarianism.

We define ourselves not just by our heroes and devotions, but even more by our enemies and our anathemas. I believe that it is foundational to the capital-L Libertarian creed, whether they realize it or not, that conservatives are enemies on an emotional level and to be treated with contempt and jeering. A large part of capital-L Libertarianism, many have noted, seems to be a sort of performance art of ritualized disdain for the Squares and Stiffs of the right.

Now, when I say this, my point is not to criticize Libertarians, though it certainly sounds that way.

My point is that there is something very basic about human group dynamics. Something very elemental about team-building -- and Other-defining.

And I would imagine that Libertarians would make most of the above criticisms about me, or about other conservatives -- that rather than simply discuss the issues with them, I have myself often resorted to the rhetoric of disdain, and I've barely grappled with their various claims on an intellectual or moral level, preferring to discredit them as persons by the techniques of mockery, jeering, and coordinated ridicule.

I wouldn't argue too much against those complaints, either.

My point in this is not to throw blame here or there, or to blame Paul, or to blame McCain, or the Establishment, or the Tea Partiers, or the Libertarians.

Though, I have to say, if I were to lay blame, I'd put most of it on the Establishment; I expect rabble-rousers to rouse rabble, but if you're going to pretend to be a power-brokering Establishment, I'd expect you to have a higher emotional IQ and keener understanding of group dynamics.

Political unions don't fall apart because of dissidents and heretics; there are always dissidents and heretics. Political unions fall apart because the Establishment, the leadership, the allegedly cool hands at the wheel, prove themselves to be incompetent and let once-mendable tears and rips become irreparable.*

But, that aside, my point is that this is how people who despise each other and who do not want to be united with one another behave.

It's not the Libertarians' fault they treat conservatives with performative contempt; playing the role of Goth Fonzie is how they show they're not with the squares. Nor is it the fault, really, of the Establishment that they dislike people who don't find them as irreplaceable and important as they themselves do.

It is the nature of every power elite, after all, to be smug and walk with unearned swagger.

My point is, again, this is simply human nature; this is how people act when they intend to signal "If you were to die, I would not shed a single tear." This is how people draw their friends in more closely with warm words and affirmations, while pushing their opponents away with venom and truculence.

I thought a couple of years ago this rift could be healed.

But I don't think it can any longer.

And I don't think that bodes well for the future. You can't combine against an enemy when you view the other factions of the right as the enemy.

* It's amazing to me that these "leaders" see that people aren't following them and keep coming to the same conclusion: "There must be something wrong with these followers."

No wonder they get along so well with Obama.

Posted by: Ace at 04:58 PM

Comments

(Jump to bottom of comments)

1 Bold and boxed.

Posted by: By The People That Brought You Detachable Penis at June 01, 2015 04:59 PM (ecDRv)

2 Ace, report to the barrel.

Posted by: flounder at June 01, 2015 04:59 PM (ecDRv)

3 Worlds within worlds.

Posted by: BananaDream at June 01, 2015 04:59 PM (vLk7c)

4 Now to read the post.

Posted by: flounder at June 01, 2015 05:00 PM (ecDRv)

5 Bold, boxed and Barreled.

Posted by: RedMindBlueState at June 01, 2015 05:01 PM (h4vJk)

6 But did you like the movie?

Posted by: wrg500 at June 01, 2015 05:01 PM (C278+)

7 You're boldly going outside of the box, I see.

Posted by: Dave C at June 01, 2015 05:01 PM (JLnbb)

8 Can I quote you on that?

Posted by: Charming Billy at June 01, 2015 05:01 PM (IN7k+)

9 Check.

Posted by: rickb223 at June 01, 2015 05:02 PM (sUwfN)

10 121 Y-Not: I am beginning to feel like a gratitude stalker. Thanks for compiling the archive of gardening threads. That was very helpful.

Sambo
Posted by: Sambo at June 01, 2015 04:12 PM (9UV3C)

Posted by: Sambo at June 01, 2015 05:02 PM (9UV3C)

11 Oh, this whole post is SO.NOT.TRUE. And you're a no-account, shit-kicking America-hating weasel for saying it, so, THERE!

Posted by: The GOPe at June 01, 2015 05:03 PM (sCHw2)

12 My relationship with the GOPe has been denial, anger, bargaining, depression, and acceptance.

Posted by: The Great White Snark at June 01, 2015 05:03 PM (XUKZU)

13 Goth Fonzie = Nick Gillespie

Posted by: VizslaMan at June 01, 2015 05:03 PM (Uv/Av)

14 McCain's an ass.

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at June 01, 2015 05:03 PM (LA7Cm)

15 Lays a $100 chip down on the 'Will be Reposted' square.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at June 01, 2015 05:04 PM (9mTYi)

16 McShitty is an asshole. And Capital "L" Libertarians are drug addled idiots who believe in no borders. Both are off my list. little 'l" libertarian leaning people are conservatives.

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at June 01, 2015 05:04 PM (GpgJl)

17 the rift between Rand Paul and John McCain

Dog, meet Pony. Pony, Dog. now, let's get on with this show.

Posted by: Lad Ys, pretending that Rand Paul is a GOP outsider at June 01, 2015 05:04 PM (Q819Q)

18 Iduno, Reagan was pretty direct in his opposition to communists. Makes my hair stand up. So was JFK.

Which makes the open celebration of Socialist ideology a puzzle to me. I think the GOP tried to appease the left and the result was they (the GOP) were over run.

Posted by: Armound45C at June 01, 2015 05:05 PM (n4VVw)

19 What we have here is most assuredly not a failure to communicate. The GOPe has communicated all too clearly. How difficult is it to understand "Bite me"?

Unfortunately, we, and the nation as a whole, will pay a steep price for their imbecility.

Posted by: pep at June 01, 2015 05:05 PM (LAe3v)

20 So. Have we have hit Peak Formatting Issues? I'm kind of horrified to contemplate that the answer is no.

Posted by: alexthechick - Oh please intervene SMOD at June 01, 2015 05:05 PM (mf5HN)

21 * taps face of government-funded sarcasm detector *

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at June 01, 2015 05:05 PM (9mTYi)

22 But where does that leave us???

Posted by: Wacko Birds at June 01, 2015 05:05 PM (sCHw2)

23 But this will be my second divorce! I parted ways with liberalism when it became leftism, and now I'm parting with the GOPe because it's becoming liberalism in plaid stretch golf pants.

No more formal relationships. I'm just going to bang the pool boy of Liberty and drink gin.

Posted by: All Hail Eris at June 01, 2015 05:06 PM (jR7Wy)

24 You're a terrible therapist. I want my money back.

You can't spell therapist without "the rapist"

Posted by: Mister Magic at June 01, 2015 05:06 PM (7lVxX)

25 Ace,

A Third Party Proposal

http://bit.ly/1IPxFof

Posted by: The Political Hat at June 01, 2015 05:06 PM (7YlUk)

26 I believe you are correct. The Republican Party is dying because it started to believe its own lies. The claims that the GOP was dead because Democrats won a lot in 2006 etc was always ridiculous. But watching it slit its own throat, drive away voters, and deliberately attack the very people that gave it power... its dead.

Because the GOP elite's idea now is to out-Rove Rove by being the "reasonable party" that is "moderate" and "able to compromise." By this they mean "give the Democrats what they want, and smile about it."

And in the end, why would anyone vote for them? Its a choice between smarmy jerks who stand for nothing and radical freaks who believe in nonsense but control everything. Who's going to back the grinning losers?

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at June 01, 2015 05:06 PM (39g3+)

27 I thought the Tea Partiers were getting excessively hostile and mean in their criticisms.

Have any examples? I don't remember any TP'ers becoming hostile, but I do remember the MFM's description becoming more and more venal.

It's almost like they saw we were gaining traction in politics and wanted to turn the country against us.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this sh1t at June 01, 2015 05:07 PM (0HooB)

28 Thank you for your service, Senator McCain, and kindly exit my consciousness.

Posted by: Grump928(c) at June 01, 2015 05:07 PM (evdj2)

29 Would you like me if I wrapped myself in Saran Wrap like Kathy Bates in Fried Green Tomatoes?.........awww, hell, I'll be doing that anyway!!!
*wink*

Posted by: Lindsey Graham at June 01, 2015 05:07 PM (JoIcn)

30 wut?

Posted by: Pool Boy of Liberty at June 01, 2015 05:07 PM (g1DWB)

31 The relationship analogy; it feels all Cosmo up in here.

Posted by: River Guide at June 01, 2015 05:08 PM (RJMhd)

32 Rather, and this is the important thing, I believe that that open contemptuousness is not merely a defect, but an essential, foundational part of capital-L Libertarianism.
___
I saw FootLoose! You reichwingers are the real enemies!

Posted by: capital-L Libertarianism at June 01, 2015 05:08 PM (78TbK)

33 Great essay, ace.

I want to win.

I dont even care that large segments of the Big Tent despise me. I still want to win because I cant live off the grid. I need this country to work.

But i have reached a stage of utter contempt forLibertarians and have Zero faith in the competence of the Establishment.

IOW we are doomed

Posted by: Y-not on the phone at June 01, 2015 05:08 PM (RWGcK)

34 You can't combine against an enemy when you view the other factions of the right as the enemy.

Indeed. Sadly, the red rat commie bastards of the Democratic Party are our opponents, the Republicans are our enemies.

Posted by: Grump928(c) at June 01, 2015 05:08 PM (evdj2)

35 >>>My point is that there is something very basic about human group dynamics. Something very elemental about team-building -- and Other-defining.

And I would imagine that Libertarians would make most of the above criticisms about me, or about other conservatives -- that rather than simply discuss the issues with them, I have myself often resorted to the rhetoric of disdain, and I've barely grappled with their various claims on an intellectual or moral level, preferring to discredit them as persons by the techniques of mockery, jeering, and coordinated ridicule.>>>

And conservatives do this about small "l" libertarians.

Posted by: gm at June 01, 2015 05:09 PM (K0tm3)

36 because they approach conservatives like myself

Interesting. I don't think I have seen you explicitly describe yourself as a conservative before. You are obviously on the right on many issues, but you do like to wander off the reservation when the mood strikes you. Like if it's a sunny day.

Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at June 01, 2015 05:09 PM (IN7k+)

37 Cute piglets at the first link.

Posted by: HR braucht ein Bier at June 01, 2015 05:09 PM (ZKzrr)

38 30 wut?
Posted by: Pool Boy of Liberty at June 01, 2015 05:07 PM (g1DWB)
---
Don't act coy. And bring the sump nozzle.

Posted by: All Hail Eris at June 01, 2015 05:09 PM (jR7Wy)

39 Posted by: Y-not on the phone at June 01, 2015 05:08 PM (RWGcK)

There you are!

10 121 Y-Not: I am beginning to feel like a gratitude stalker. Thanks for compiling the archive of gardening threads. That was very helpful.

Sambo
Posted by: Sambo at June 01, 2015 04:12 PM (9UV3C)
Posted by: Sambo at June 01, 2015 05:02 PM (9UV3C)

Posted by: Sambo at June 01, 2015 05:09 PM (9UV3C)

40 Brilliant as usual. And it's bad news. Say hello to president Clinton

Posted by: Thunderb at June 01, 2015 05:09 PM (zOTsN)

41
So Teh Ewok hated the movie.

Even the volcano scene.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at June 01, 2015 05:09 PM (XJkD9)

42 And I don't think that bodes well for the future. You can't combine
against an enemy when you view the other factions of the right as the
enemy.

This is just as true of the nation-state as it is of parties.

Posted by: Methos at June 01, 2015 05:10 PM (ZbV+0)

43 Say hello to president Clinton

Posted by: Thunderb at June 01, 2015 05:09 PM (zOTsN)

Does she speak middle finger?

Posted by: flounder at June 01, 2015 05:10 PM (ecDRv)

44 >>Have any examples? I don't remember any TP'ers becoming hostile, but I do remember the MFM's description becoming more and more venal.

Well pretty much everything the Tea Party was founded on. It was founded as a group to fight against too much government on both the left and the right and they went after both with equal vigor.

I tend to side with the Tea Party on most issues but I have never been surprised that entrenched GOP pols pushed back.

Posted by: JackStraw at June 01, 2015 05:10 PM (g1DWB)

45 >>.Reagan was pretty direct in his opposition to communists. Makes my hair stand up. So was JFK.

did you miss the part where i distinguished how one talks to allies and how one talks to enemies

Posted by: ace at June 01, 2015 05:10 PM (PA7DS)

46 If only that incompetent corrupt fossil was brought down in the S&L scandal.

That fact that he was able to survive has been a detriment to the GOP and the US as a whole.

Posted by: Kreplach at June 01, 2015 05:10 PM (lPu4P)

47 You're welcome, Sambo!

Posted by: Y-not on the phone at June 01, 2015 05:11 PM (RWGcK)

48 "Other defining." Good phrase to describe our current situation.

Everyone is "other," and therefore can be criticized with impunity. But that creates exactly the situation that makes a broad-based right-of-center coalition impossible. Identity politics, Balkanization, etc.

Ronald Reagan was superb at defining his political enemies as wrong, but never as "other."

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at June 01, 2015 05:11 PM (Zu3d9)

49 >>>
Have any examples? I don't remember any TP'ers becoming hostile, but I do remember the MFM's description becoming more and more venal.

you're kidding right?

Posted by: ace at June 01, 2015 05:11 PM (PA7DS)

50 I swear before 2008, the GOP at least made an attempt to be a unified party. Or maybe I just wasn't paying attention.

Posted by: DangerGirl and her 1.21 gigawatt Sanity Prod (tm) at June 01, 2015 05:11 PM (q20+R)

51
The chunder heads who took Kadaffayie down are the same chunder heads who want Asad out.
Taking Kadaffayie out and damaging Asad unloosed the entire moslem brothers and other like minded sharia types and look where we are now

Posted by: Yo! at June 01, 2015 05:11 PM (W6iIX)

52 Say hello to president Clinton

Or whoever the Democrat nominee ends up being. Because its clear that the people in charge of the Republican Party are absolutely ruthless and focused in their furious need to crush anyone who is not part of the plan. They will use any means necessary to get their establishment-approved candidate in place. Better to lose than allow someone they don't like to win.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at June 01, 2015 05:11 PM (39g3+)

53 .Reagan was pretty direct in his opposition to communists. Makes my hair stand up. So was JFK.

did you miss the part where i distinguished how one talks to allies and how one talks to enemies

Posted by: ace at June 01, 2015 05:10 PM (PA7DS)

Heretics are always a greater perceived threat than heathens.

Posted by: The Political Hat at June 01, 2015 05:12 PM (7YlUk)

54 I get the part about the Tea Party and the Establishment, but the Paul thing, well he and his father are just nuts and should be paid no never mind. The Rands will be the ultimate ruination of the Republican Party

Posted by: Nevergiveup at June 01, 2015 05:12 PM (rDqRv)

55 I'm a little more optimistic.

I just think the likes of McCain and Graham need to be retired. Count in Bush.

The old guard is not going away quietly. But they need to. There time is done. It'd be one thing if they were the wise old elders - but they are every bit the fire bombers that Paul is.

So what is their point.

Posted by: SH at June 01, 2015 05:12 PM (gmeXX)

56 you're kidding right?

Posted by: ace at June 01, 2015 05:11 PM (PA7DS)
Let's just trot out a "stunningly stupid" and move on, eh ace?

Posted by: Lad Ys, pretending that Rand Paul is a GOP outsider at June 01, 2015 05:12 PM (Q819Q)

57 Rather than taking the long and sober view of things -- that a political
coalition depended on at least some reserve of intraparty amity -- they
showed their full contempt of the Tea Party and essentially declared them enemies.
========

Lois Lerner and Mitch McConnell, holding hands on a park bench. Awwww.... ain't they cute?

Posted by: mrp at June 01, 2015 05:13 PM (JBggj)

58 did you miss the part where i distinguished how one talks to allies and how one talks to enemies

Posted by: ace at June 01, 2015 05:10 PM (PA7DS)

Apparently I did, so I shall re-read it more carefully. But I did not miss how George W. Bush and his father talked to/about conservatives, and how they talked to/about democrats, and where we are now politically.

Posted by: Armound45C at June 01, 2015 05:13 PM (n4VVw)

59 If the Constitution gets in the way of what our betters tell us will keep us safe, then it'll just have to go.

Posted by: OCBill at June 01, 2015 05:13 PM (YJvVE)

60 Ace you forgot something, I'm a member of The Maverick Party, sheesh.

Posted by: John McCain-your Friendish at June 01, 2015 05:14 PM (RJMhd)

61 Rand is an idiot. I'm done with him.

Posted by: Costanza Defense at June 01, 2015 05:14 PM (ZPrif)

62 Barack Obama is a SCOAMT.

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - Not dead yet at June 01, 2015 05:14 PM (kff5f)

63 Okay Ace, I read the post twice. I see where Rand is attacking McCain (in effect) and McCain is firing back.

You're saying they need to talk their differences out?

Then you mention divorces and (in effect) irreconcilable differences. Which appears true.

But I'm not seeing the hilarious ending, with wordplay that makes me envious.

Posted by: SE Pa Moron at June 01, 2015 05:14 PM (xQX/f)

64 A Third Party Proposal

Hat, you're a good moron, and I know you mean well, but that's the third time you've posted that link in one of these threads that I've seen, and it still doesn't make the GOP palatable.

Posted by: Methos at June 01, 2015 05:14 PM (ZbV+0)

65 you're kidding right?

I must have missed it, too. I don't doubt you can find some angry commenter or obscure blogger but... compare what they said to what the average GOP elite politician said. Joe Blow with an audience of dozens vs one of the most powerful men on the planet with an audience of millions.

I seriously doubt there's any remotest sense of equivalency at any rational level. Its like some dork saying "them rag heads should all die" vs IS hacking off the heads of 20 Christians. Both sides were being mean to each other!

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at June 01, 2015 05:14 PM (39g3+)

66 Burn it down.
Scatter the stones.
Salt the earth where it stood.

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - Not dead yet at June 01, 2015 05:14 PM (kff5f)

67 Though, I have to say, if I were to lay blame, I'd put most of it on the
Establishment; I expect rabble-rousers to rouse rabble, but if you're
going to pretend to be a power-brokering Establishment, I'd expect you
to have a higher emotional IQ and keener understanding of group
dynamics.
***
I disagree.

The problem isn't the that Republican establishment doesn't know how to work constructively with the conservatives. Hell, they work constructively with the Democrats on a regular basis.

The problem is that the Republican establishment found the appeal of government money just like the Democrats before them and now they want to run Leviathan instead of scaling it back.

Posted by: 18-1 at June 01, 2015 05:15 PM (78TbK)

68 The GOP wants to be Dem-lite

Libertarian want to be Social/Foreign Policy Dems

SoCons want to be Dems who don't kill babies.

The Tea Party is the only group that seems to understand liberty in all it's manifestations.

No wonder everyone wants to destroy them.

Posted by: Lauren at June 01, 2015 05:15 PM (tO0wb)

69 I get the part about the Tea Party and the Establishment, but the Paul thing, well he and his father are just nuts and should be paid no never mind. The Rands will be the ultimate ruination of the Republican Party

-----

I disagree with your final statement their. Paul will not be what ruins the GOP. I think the GOP is much stronger than people think. But regardless, I like Paul. He has a lot to offer. Basically it is this - a distrust of government. That leads to a vision of foreign policy that I cannot support, but I am with him on the basic distrust of government.

Posted by: SH at June 01, 2015 05:15 PM (gmeXX)

70 That said, and sorry to go OT so soon...

My wife and I could use some support prayers- she just got laid off.

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - Not dead yet at June 01, 2015 05:15 PM (kff5f)

71 Hat, you're a good moron, and I know you mean well, but that's the third time you've posted that link in one of these threads that I've seen, and it still doesn't make the GOP palatable.

Posted by: Methos at June 01, 2015 05:14 PM (ZbV+0)

It isn't meant to make the GOP palatable. It is a low risk test to demonstrate that a non-GOP conservative party is plausible.

Posted by: The Political Hat at June 01, 2015 05:15 PM (7YlUk)

72 I'm just going to bang the pool boy of Liberty and drink gin.

Posted by: All Hail Eris at June 01, 2015 05:06 PM (jR7Wy)

Replace gin with whiskey and I'm down with this plan.

Seriously, you can't put faith in politicians. You have to go with the best of a bad lot. Always. I think where we have issues as a country, not just in the republican party, is with this rancor filled, you're the enemy attitude towards people who disagree with us. This has been a problem on the left for a long time. It is a problem in some wings of the republicans party and the Libertarians. I don't know the answer, truly.

I think what the republicans need desperately is someone who speaks with joy, optimism and enthusiasm for the future. Gentle rebukes tinged with humor, not anger.

Obviously not Paul. Either of them.

Posted by: Lea at June 01, 2015 05:15 PM (lIU4e)

73 After further review, put me down in the stonewalling camp. he said with his arms crossed and staring at the floor.

Posted by: Armound45C at June 01, 2015 05:16 PM (n4VVw)

74 Rand Paul is too much like his stunningly stupid father and McCain is olde, and fragile, and possibly suffering from dementia and brain cancer. A Vox on both their houses.

Posted by: Dr Spank at June 01, 2015 05:16 PM (7XU5z)

75 I think what the republicans need desperately is someone who speaks with
joy, optimism and enthusiasm for the future. Gentle rebukes tinged with
humor, not anger.
=======

I know someone.

Posted by: mrp at June 01, 2015 05:16 PM (JBggj)

76 AllenG
I am so sorry to hear that.
If I can help reach me on twitter at moxiemom.
Prayers up.

Posted by: Y-not on the phone at June 01, 2015 05:17 PM (RWGcK)

77 This movie looks like it was really long. Should I see it?

Posted by: Moderate Salami at June 01, 2015 05:17 PM (/Ho8c)

78 that incompetent corrupt fossil

-
You're going to have to be more specific.

Posted by: The Great White Snark at June 01, 2015 05:17 PM (XUKZU)

79 Let me just say I agree with the OP, as well as the people disagreeing with him. A smart debate all around.

Posted by: Marco Rubio, Who Knows The Rules of This Game at June 01, 2015 05:17 PM (PA7DS)

80 wut?
Posted by: Pool Boy
---
Don't act coy. And bring the sump nozzle.
Posted by: All Hail Eris

Weirdly, there isn't enough info there, yet, there is TMI.

Posted by: rickb223 Straight, Conservative Clinger at June 01, 2015 05:18 PM (mhTL5)

81 Well pretty much everything the Tea Party was founded on. It was founded as a group to fight against too much government on both the left and the right and they went after both with equal vigor.

I still don't remember anything about the TP being hostile, nor do I remember them "going after" anyone.

What I do remember is them (and me, since I went to the second TP rally they had down here) calling for lower taxes and responsible spending within its means and balanced budgets like the average American family does.

Then everybody on the left running around screaming like their hair was on fire.

And the GOPe, too. It sure didn't take them long to demonize us.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this sh1t at June 01, 2015 05:18 PM (0HooB)

82 I think it could have been reconciled but the party of perfect has become the enemy. We will never agree 100% and today nothing less than 100% will be tolerated.

Posted by: Cruzinator at June 01, 2015 05:18 PM (XX9+E)

83 How to please your Ewok.

Posted by: Cosmo quiz at June 01, 2015 05:18 PM (kivUY)

84
I have never been surprised that entrenched GOP pols pushed back.
Posted by: JackStraw

What has been surprising is the degree to which the GOP SMOF have been willing to join with Obama and the Democrats to crush the Liptons.

Feels like it's 1939 and everyone over here is Czechoslovakia.

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at June 01, 2015 05:18 PM (kdS6q)

85 I think Rand Paul's problem is that he is trying to set himself apart and pull ahead by crushing everyone else down. I think he's trying to use the Mitt Romney system of primaries where you make all your opponents seem worse and are the last man standing. When you're up against the smartest man in just about any room who is a brilliant speaker (Cruz) its hard to seem like the best conservative. I also think he's getting some terrible advice from his dad's cronies.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at June 01, 2015 05:18 PM (39g3+)

86 I think what the republicans need desperately is someone who speaks with
joy, optimism and enthusiasm for the future. Gentle rebukes tinged with
humor, not anger.

-
And doesn't get scared back into his hole whenever he sees his shadow.

Posted by: The Great White Snark at June 01, 2015 05:18 PM (XUKZU)

87 Have any examples? I don't remember any TP'ers
becoming hostile, but I do remember the MFM's description becoming more
and more venal.

you're kidding right?

Posted by: ace at June 01, 2015 05:11 PM (PA7DS)
Ace is (fairly) describing folks like me, or if you want to be less personal, any of the shouters during the obamacare townhalls. 'You lie' etc.

Posted by: Methos at June 01, 2015 05:18 PM (ZbV+0)

88 So sorry to hear that, AllenG. Wish I could help.

Posted by: Moderate Salami at June 01, 2015 05:19 PM (/Ho8c)

89 A Vox on both their houses.

Wait a sec ...

Posted by: that guy who waits a sec ... at June 01, 2015 05:19 PM (ZtFr+)

90 I wonder if Rand will get primaried?

Posted by: Costanza Defense at June 01, 2015 05:19 PM (ZPrif)

91
Oh wait, this is more about in-party fighting, GOPe, and alliances rather than what Paul said about the hawks.

I'm not sure arming/training anyone in Syria at any time is/was a good idea.

There are zero moderate moslems on the planet, zero

Posted by: Yo! at June 01, 2015 05:19 PM (W6iIX)

92 My wife and I could use some support prayers- she just got laid off.

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - Not dead yet at June 01, 2015 05:15 PM (kff5f)

Prayers up, Allen.

Posted by: DangerGirl and her 1.21 gigawatt Sanity Prod (tm) at June 01, 2015 05:20 PM (q20+R)

93 I think what the republicans need desperately is someone who speaks with
joy, optimism and enthusiasm for the future. Gentle rebukes tinged with
humor, not anger.

------

You have just described Ted Cruz.

Posted by: SH at June 01, 2015 05:20 PM (gmeXX)

94 >>This is how people draw their friends in more closely with warm words
and affirmations, while pushing their opponents away with venom and
truculence.

Let's not ignore the elephant in the room: this is how Obama treats his enemies, in the GOP, and more often then not, citizens - "tea baggers" Wwal street" "1%" "bankers" "those who oppose Obamacare - Hobby Lobby, etc."

I'd say if anything, Obama is responsible for re-setting the tone of national politics.

Posted by: Lizzy at June 01, 2015 05:20 PM (umo6N)

95 Prayers up, AllenG.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this sh1t at June 01, 2015 05:20 PM (0HooB)

96 It's worth remembering that part of what enabled Ronald Reagan to finally succeed in his long pursuit of the Presidency was that he carefully and diligently courted the various disparate factions within the party. That's where the "big tent" metaphor originally came from.

Go read the 1975 _Reason_ interview of Reagan. In which he reached out specifically to the libertarian bloc.

Reagan didn't make everyone on the right magically like one another, or agree with one another, but he did convince them to grudgingly cooperate.

Posted by: torquewrench at June 01, 2015 05:20 PM (noWW6)

97 I want a divorce!

They can keep the house. I don't care.

Just give me the car and the guns.

Oh and The Beatles CDs. Those are mine Beyotch!

Posted by: Drill_Thrawl at June 01, 2015 05:20 PM (JOG+K)

98 Feels like it's 1939 and everyone over here is Czechoslovakia.

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at June 01, 2015 05:18 PM (kdS6q)

Don't worry, Reggie and I will just Anschluß your Sudetenland...

Posted by: Herr Obama at June 01, 2015 05:20 PM (7YlUk)

99 I think what the party needs is more people misunderstanding the tea party movement and denigrating them for whatever reason.

#GoDems

Posted by: Dr Spank at June 01, 2015 05:20 PM (7XU5z)

100 Ace is (fairly) describing folks like me, or if you want to be less personal, any of the shouters during the obamacare townhalls. 'You lie' etc.

So some random guy at a town hall vs Lindsey Graham and John McCain? That seems like equivalence to you? Its like a flea biting a lion and the lion genociding fleas.

"He started it!"

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at June 01, 2015 05:20 PM (39g3+)

101 I think what the republicans need desperately is someone who speaks with joy, optimism and enthusiasm for the future. Gentle rebukes tinged with humor, not anger.

Posted by: Lea at June 01, 2015 05:15 PM (lIU4e)
---
Yes! Have they learned nothing from Ronaldus Magnus?

Posted by: All Hail Eris at June 01, 2015 05:21 PM (jR7Wy)

102 >>AllenG

So sorry to hear about your wife.

My mom just called the other day and said they're eliminating my dad's job, so he's going to retire. And the economy contracted 'unexpectedly' by .7%.

But according to Washpo, it's only because the country stupidly doesn't understand how awesome the economy is!

Posted by: Lea at June 01, 2015 05:21 PM (lIU4e)

103 A Vox on both their houses.

Man, that's harsh. I like it.

Posted by: no good deed at June 01, 2015 05:21 PM (GgxVX)

104
So who gets the dog?

Posted by: wth at June 01, 2015 05:22 PM (wAQA5)

105 70 My wife and I could use some support prayers- she just got laid off.
Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - Not dead yet at June 01, 2015 05:15 PM (kff5f)

You got it, bro. Hang in there.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at June 01, 2015 05:22 PM (St6BJ)

106 You have just described Ted Cruz.

Mr Cruz is not very good at the warm folksy humor bit. He's funny, but only because we agree with his zingers, not because he reaches out to undecided and uninformed people well.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at June 01, 2015 05:22 PM (39g3+)

107 I would rather die at the hands of the enemy than be stabbed in the back by my so-called ally.
P*ss on the Establishment! Tea Party was right all along, those who said go along to get along were and are wrong. Just wait til we get the Senate, then we'll show'm.

Posted by: billygoatpuke at June 01, 2015 05:22 PM (l5QMI)

108 Allen, she doesn't happen to do accounting, does she?

Posted by: DangerGirl and her 1.21 gigawatt Sanity Prod (tm) at June 01, 2015 05:22 PM (q20+R)

109 86
I think what the republicans need desperately is someone who speaks with

joy, optimism and enthusiasm for the future. Gentle rebukes tinged with

humor, not anger.

Richard Simmons?

Posted by: Dr Spank at June 01, 2015 05:22 PM (7XU5z)

110 Those who rule us (both parties) have a worldview that's almost completely at odds with ours. That's the problem.

Posted by: tsj017 at June 01, 2015 05:23 PM (4r7FP)

111 Sending prayers, AllenG!

Posted by: Lizzy at June 01, 2015 05:23 PM (umo6N)

112
I'd say if anything, Obama is responsible for re-setting the tone of national politics.
Posted by: Lizzy at June 01, 2015 05:20 PM (umo6N)

Yup. He is the most divisive hateful polititian of our times. He is a small mean spiteful hateful man

Posted by: Nevergiveup at June 01, 2015 05:23 PM (rDqRv)

113 All of us down at the Brattleboro Women's Reproductive Health Choice
Clinic our proud of Bruce Jenner for doing the correct thing. Sometimes God makes mistakes and we must correct such is the case of Bruce Jenner whom should have been born a female.

Posted by: Mary Clogginstien from Brattleboro, VT at June 01, 2015 05:23 PM (lNSdJ)

114 Dennis Miller snark: If Bernie Sanders is elected it will be 50 Shades of Red.

Posted by: The Great White Snark at June 01, 2015 05:23 PM (XUKZU)

115 This piece by Ace made me think of Greg Gutfeld. I like the guy and find him insightful at times. But I know he is signaling all the time that he's not one of the squares.

Wish he wouldn't do that.

Posted by: MaxMBJ at June 01, 2015 05:23 PM (Uq9ly)

116 I'm not sure arming/training anyone in Syria at any time is/was a good idea.

There are zero moderate moslems on the planet, zero

Posted by: Yo! at June 01, 2015 05:19 PM (W6iIX)

Yep. And tossing Gaddafi and destabilizing Egypt sure did not help matters. To the extent that GOP hawks did not oppose or actively encourage these series of events, Rand is right, however ineloquently stated as "created ISIS."

Posted by: flounder at June 01, 2015 05:23 PM (ecDRv)

117 Here's the deal, the Establishment at least paid lip service to cutting government. The tea party came along and said here is the votes to back up your lip service. But once the tea party knew for sure it was just lip service on the part of the Establishment and therefore part of the problem and needed to be destroyed AND the Establishment realized that lip service would not appease the tea party it knew it had to destroy the tea party, that's when the SHTF.

Now in this particular case it was the Establishment that came to the altar knowing its promises of fidelity where worth nothing.

Posted by: Ken at June 01, 2015 05:23 PM (LXJ1e)

118 I think what the republicans need desperately is someone who speaks with joy, optimism and enthusiasm for the future. Gentle rebukes tinged with humor, not anger.
Posted by: Lea

---
Yes! Have they learned nothing from
Ronaldus Magnus?

We nuke Russia in 5 minutes.

Posted by: rickb223 Straight, Conservative Clinger at June 01, 2015 05:24 PM (mhTL5)

119
>>>during the obamacare townhalls. 'You lie' etc.

whut?

wait?

wait they were lying,
'if you like your plan you can keep your plan'
and the whopper
'if you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor'

Posted by: Yo! at June 01, 2015 05:24 PM (W6iIX)

120
Sigh, I think Patsy the Chicken is going to get the ax for laying eggs in the hay bucket. She's been warn repeatedly....

Posted by: Bruce with a Wang! at June 01, 2015 05:24 PM (iQIUe)

121 I honestly think most rank and file "conservatives" have a position somewhere in the middle on defense issues between Rand and McCain and no "divorce" is necessary.

I think Rand said something stupid with regard to ISIS, but if McCain had his way the US would be in about half dozen different wars right now that had zero to do with our security.

I really think the McCain wing is more reckless when it comes to foreign policy. My problem with the Paul(s) is more about rhetoric than anything.

Posted by: McAdams at June 01, 2015 05:24 PM (qBmEy)

122 Mr Cruz is not very good at the warm folksy humor bit. He's funny, but only because we agree with his zingers, not because he reaches out to undecided and uninformed people well.

-----

You have to look beyond his Fox News appearances. He comes across much better than people think.

Posted by: SH at June 01, 2015 05:24 PM (gmeXX)

123 It isn't meant to make the GOP palatable. It is a low risk test to demonstrate that a non-GOP conservative party is plausible.

Aha, Hat! Thus I have (unwittingly) demonstrated the mindlessness that flows from hostility.

I've been reading that as an excuse to not abandon the GOP until someone else proves there's somewhere to go.

Posted by: Methos at June 01, 2015 05:24 PM (ZbV+0)

124 >>Yup. He is the most divisive hateful polititian of our times. He is a small mean spiteful hateful man

Seriously, have we ever had a president who showed such contempt for those he supposedly serves/represents? Even Clinton knew he had to do the "I feel your pain" shtick.

Posted by: Lizzy at June 01, 2015 05:24 PM (umo6N)

125 I think the most frustrating (and angering) part to me is that I feel like I'm taking hits from all sides. I knew Democrats didn't like my kind. When Obama was elected, I felt it even more. That doubled after Obamacare was passed. Then the GOP joined in on the conservahate, with McCain...a person who I had given my time and vote to...seemingly in the lead.

It's hard not to throw my hands up and say "fuck you" at this point.

Posted by: DangerGirl and her 1.21 gigawatt Sanity Prod (tm) at June 01, 2015 05:24 PM (q20+R)

126 nah, it won't seek a divorce. It will go to bars without its wedding ring on, and tell whomever buys it a drink that its separated and trying to move on with its life.....yet it will sometimes show up at home, intoxicated and crying, and beg to be taken back. And the cycle will start all over.

Posted by: the Butcher at June 01, 2015 05:25 PM (fUjxW)

127 I think it could have been reconciled but the party of perfect has become the enemy. We will never agree 100% and today nothing less than 100% will be tolerated.
Posted by: Cruzinator at June 01, 2015 05:18 PM (XX9+E)

I think this is extremely dangerous for us, because the left doesn't care. They vote lockstep. They are a hive mind.

We can't let perfect be the enemy of good, because no matter what mistakes W made, and he like all politicians made many, he was a million times better than Obama. If we let this rancor destroy the party, it will be 5 more Obama's until we can get it together again. And then the country will be well and truly fcked.

Also, there will be creepy robots attacking all conservatives, who will be tracked via car, phone, and probably a chip embedded in their heads if you believe the stuff that's going around on facebook.

Posted by: Lea at June 01, 2015 05:25 PM (lIU4e)

128 Thoughts and prayers, AllenG.

What line of work is the Mrs. in?

Posted by: rickb223 Straight, Conservative Clinger at June 01, 2015 05:25 PM (mhTL5)

129 "But I did not miss how George W. Bush and his father talked to/about conservatives, and how they talked to/about democrats, and where we are now politically."

What's incredibly frustrating is to have heard all during the Obama years from liberals that,

"Well, you conservatives _had your shot_. You elected your chosen conservative champion, George W. Bush, and he was a complete disaster, and in the end, the country rejected him, your party, and your conservative ideology. So sit down and shut up now, mmmkay."

So basically Dubya, while privately and acidically damning actual conservatives, and governing like the second coming of Lyndon Johnson, ended up doing huge damage to the public reputation of conservatism. How great is that?

Posted by: torquewrench at June 01, 2015 05:25 PM (noWW6)

130 AllenG, prayers and best wishes. May this lead to something even better.

Posted by: All Hail Eris at June 01, 2015 05:25 PM (jR7Wy)

131 I remember being all of about 14 years old, youngest in the class. I had a high school psychology class. Not the norm, I grant you. Teacher asked a question, 'How would you end gang violence'. My hand goes up. My reply, 'Arm both sides'.

Stunned silence, which is probably why it sticks in my mind. Horrified silence. Teacher pauses. Long pregnant pause. Then kinda/sorta lets me off the hook.

But that was my answer way back then and I still don't see a better answer sometimes. This inter-islamic riff would be best served with swift and certain death until both sides *desire* a solution.

Posted by: SE Pa Moron at June 01, 2015 05:26 PM (xQX/f)

132 @117

You're exactly right.

You ever notice that tax cuts, earmarks, balanced budgets, deficit reduction has completly disappears from the GOP lexicon?

Posted by: Kreplach at June 01, 2015 05:26 PM (lPu4P)

133 Monday while President Barack Obama was answering questions at a town hall with YSEALI Fellows, an exchange program for community leaders from ASEAN, The Association of Southeast Asian Nations, he said his administration has restored the Untied States as the the most respected country on earth.

Cough Cough Cough

Posted by: Nevergiveup at June 01, 2015 05:27 PM (rDqRv)

134 There can be no viable "open border" until the attractive nuisance of the Welfare State is abolished, hanged, electrocuted, buried, dug up, then traded for a dog, which is then shot.

Posted by: jwpaine, otherized for your protection at June 01, 2015 05:27 PM (0bXhD)

135 Yup. He is the most divisive hateful polititian of our times. He is a small mean spiteful hateful man

This is what gets me. The left screamed about how President Bush was the most divisive president of all time because he wouldn't bend on his policies, wouldn't cave when they demanded he do so, and would not simply obey their screams. But he was always warm, welcoming, reaching out, polite, and affable to even his enemies.

He worked with Ted Kennedy to write an education bill, one of the first things he did as president. Its predictably awful, but what president Bush did NOT do is say "I won", tell his opponents to shut up, point a finger at them and lecture them, characterize anyone who disagrees with him as a monster, constantly attack them in speeches with snide strawman comments, and use his office to wage economic and legal war against political opponents.

Basically President Obama actually is everything the left accused President Bush of being, except a lousy speech maker.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at June 01, 2015 05:27 PM (39g3+)

136 Basically, I consider myself a small L conservatarian.

Posted by: Insert Clever Name Here at June 01, 2015 05:27 PM (XMX7O)

137
The GOP has been dead to me since perhaps 2012 and most definitely since the midterms. They are not an opposition party and are proving themselves to have more in common with the Leftists than of decent real Americans.

The feud between Luap the Lesser and McStains is indeed a sideshow. The two of them are complete assholes in their own separate way.

Death to the GOP. Time to take it over or take it down. We will not have even a snowball's chance in Hell of attempting to stop, let alone reverse course, if we have to rely on them.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at June 01, 2015 05:28 PM (St6BJ)

138 What the GOP needs is a candidate with a pretty face, verbal discipline, and a willingness to let his/her Veep/Cabinet take care of the admin on the down low.

Also, a Stand Alone Complex of non-commie groups willing to destroy any and all Dems.

Posted by: The Electoral Hat at June 01, 2015 05:28 PM (7YlUk)

139 I'd say if anything, Obama is responsible for re-setting the tone of national politics.
Posted by: Lizzy at June 01, 2015 05:20 PM (umo6N)

Yup. He is the most divisive hateful polititian of our times. He is a small mean spiteful hateful man

-
The White House tweeted this today:

"One of my core principles is that I will never engage in a politics in which I'm trying to divide people" - @POTUS

Posted by: The Great White Snark at June 01, 2015 05:28 PM (XUKZU)

140
open borders, the welfare state, democracy

pick any two...

Posted by: Yo! at June 01, 2015 05:28 PM (W6iIX)

141 You create a third party today and they will be at each other's throats in a year. It's what we have become. No quarter asked, no quarter given.

Posted by: Cruzinator at June 01, 2015 05:29 PM (XX9+E)

142 And I don't think that bodes well for the future. You can't combine against an enemy when you view the other factions of the right as the enemy.

This is the one point I would dispute. The GOPe is not a "faction of the right", it's a faction of the left that found a profitable niche defrauding the right. And it worked, before folks started to take politics into their own hands.

Now they're protecting "their" prerogatives. Which is having the ironic effect of exposing them for the frauds they are.

Posted by: Brother Cavil, down with Eph 6:12 at June 01, 2015 05:29 PM (DT3rQ)

143 Just as the war against radical Islam is destined to be an ongoing multigenerational struggle, so is the war between rugged individualism (read: conservatism) and progressive statism. It's going to be a long and bumpy ride. The current shape of national politics has shifted heavily in favor of statism, among both the Left and the GOP establishment.

All we can do as individuals is to keep plugging away in our own spheres of influence and have faith that truth is ultimately on our side. Either a critical mass of "the folks" will get it, or they won't. I suspect this will get uglier before it gets better. Gird your loins.

Posted by: Muldoon, a solid man at June 01, 2015 05:29 PM (NeFrd)

144 How can they (we) knock a pol for playing to his ambitions when the system doesn't really offer much else in the way on incentives to do the right thing?

Would it be better if Paul were demagoguing to stuff his pockets with sweet graft, like Harry Reid? Or for poontang, like what the rest of us do?

Posted by: spongeworthy at June 01, 2015 05:29 PM (M90jo)

145 ...yet it will sometimes show up at home, intoxicated and crying, and beg to be taken back.

When does the begging occur? I only see its infidelity, and its gaslighting when confronted about it.

Posted by: derit at June 01, 2015 05:29 PM (jT+gh)

146 Those who rule us (both parties) have a worldview that's almost completely at odds with ours. That's the problem.Posted by: tsj017..............................Except for me, I'm just like you!

Posted by: Hillarrhoids at June 01, 2015 05:29 PM (wAQA5)

147 The biggest death blow to the GOP is that after WE delivered them the Senate and the House, they still caved and acted like the minority and the pussies they are. THAT is what will sink the GOP

Posted by: Nevergiveup at June 01, 2015 05:29 PM (rDqRv)

148 139 "One of my core principles is that I will never engage in a politics in which I'm trying to divide people" - @POTUS
Posted by: The Great White Snark at June 01, 2015 05:28 PM (XUKZU)

Only when you succeed in dividing people.

He really should get a cancer and die. Sorry, but he and his ilk are destroying the greatest nation in history right before our eyes.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at June 01, 2015 05:30 PM (St6BJ)

149 We nuke Russia in 5 minutes.
Posted by: rickb223 Straight, Conservative Clinger at June 01, 2015 05:24 PM (mhTL5)
---
Ah, memories! I was in an underground facility when his little bon mot was broadcast around the world. I thought it was in questionable taste, but I laffed.

And now here I am at the HQ.

Posted by: All Hail Eris at June 01, 2015 05:30 PM (jR7Wy)

150 As I said before, I'd hate to see the pary of Lincoln go bye-bye, but I just don't see how it can survive.

Turd party, anyone?

Posted by: Insert Clever Name Here at June 01, 2015 05:30 PM (XMX7O)

151 147 The biggest death blow to the GOP is that after WE delivered them the Senate and the House, they still caved and acted like the minority and the pussies they are. THAT is what will sink the GOP
Posted by: Nevergiveup at June 01, 2015 05:29 PM (rDqRv)

They didn't cave. They collaborated. Big difference.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at June 01, 2015 05:30 PM (St6BJ)

152 he and his ilk are destroying the greatest nation in history right before our eyes.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at June 01, 2015 05:30 PM (St6BJ)

Yup

Posted by: Nevergiveup at June 01, 2015 05:30 PM (rDqRv)

153 So some random guy at a town hall vs Lindsey Graham and John McCain? That seems like equivalence to you?

There can be hostility all around and still differ in degree.

Though, for my part, I always thought the point of calling those rallies 'tea parties' was to harken back to the original event as a pretty open threat regarding what followed. It was only later that folks came along with the too-clever-by-half Taxed Enough Already line.

Posted by: Methos at June 01, 2015 05:31 PM (ZbV+0)

154 President Obama was elected to be the representative of all Americans at a time when the country was heavily divided. Instead of working to reach out and find common ground, he worked hard to divide the country even further, and that has echoed through all of the government and culture.

Here's the deal, the Establishment at least paid lip service to cutting government. The tea party came along and said here is the votes to back up your lip service. But once the tea party knew for sure it was just lip service on the part of the Establishment and therefore part of the problem and needed to be destroyed AND the Establishment realized that lip service would not appease the tea party it knew it had to destroy the tea party, that's when the SHTF.

This is exactly right. The Tea Party movement was made up of people who'd had enough. People so fed up with frustration, waste, corruption, incompetence and injustice in government that they took to the streets, which this particularly demographic never did before. And the response from both parties was "eat s**t and die."

But hey, the Tea Partiers are just as bad as the GOPe.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at June 01, 2015 05:31 PM (39g3+)

155 This sure is some Smart Military Blogging right here...

Posted by: Yo! at June 01, 2015 05:31 PM (W6iIX)

156 Meanwhile, across the aisle, they hang together because they are there for nothing but the spoils.

Posted by: Pappy O'Daniel at June 01, 2015 05:31 PM (oVJmc)

157 What this country needs is like 5 or 6 major political parties which would cause acrimony, confusion and division, allowing Texas to secede.

Posted by: Dr Spank at June 01, 2015 05:31 PM (7XU5z)

158 AllenG,

Yikes. Sorry to hear that. I know it hurts.

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) rogue bioethicst at June 01, 2015 05:31 PM (s92xH)

159 We can't let perfect be the enemy of good, because no matter what
mistakes W made, and he like all politicians made many, he was a million
times better than Obama. If we let this rancor destroy the party, it
will be 5 more Obama's until we can get it together again.

The argument has always been those that think things will get better if we just elect more Republicans to undo Obama's damage, vs. those who say Obama's damage won't be undone until we send a clear message to the GOP that they cannot take our votes, and thus their reelection for granted.

I was with you during the last election cycle. We had two bitter
years of purity vs RINO, and I earned my RINO spurs, so to speak. I no longer believe the GOP is capable of correcting itself absent a 2x4 between the eyes. I'm no longer willing to wait for the next election.

I may well vote GOP, but ONLY if the candidate gives me reason to believe they've gotten the message. Jeb Bush, Marco Rubio, etc. do not give me that reason. For the first time since I became eligible to vote, I may not vote GOP. I will vote, because that sends a message that I'm not just too lazy to go to the polls, but I might not vote GOP. Lots of people threaten that, but if I'm seriously considering it, the GOP had better wtf up or they will lose.

Posted by: pep at June 01, 2015 05:32 PM (LAe3v)

160 When does the begging occur? I only see its infidelity, and its gaslighting when confronted about it.

Posted by: derit at June 01, 2015 05:29 PM (jT+gh)

Well they keep begging me for money, does that count?

Posted by: DangerGirl and her 1.21 gigawatt Sanity Prod (tm) at June 01, 2015 05:32 PM (q20+R)

161 >>What has been surprising is the degree to which the GOP SMOF have been willing to join with Obama and the Democrats to crush the Liptons.

Why is it surprising? How many politicians willingly leave their jobs? The Tea Party has been targeting certain Republicans and running big challenges at them. Somebody comes for your job, wouldn't you fight back?

I'm not saying I agree with them and I would love to see certain toads like McCain taken down but I can't say I surprised they fight back hard.

I'm not sure it means the death of the party though. I do think parties need to go through this type of fight every so often. The left did this after the Clinton DNC days when the far left rose and more conservative and Blue Dog Dems were purged. I mean Hillary is now being forced to run on repealing legislation Bubba helped enact. If we had a real msm it would have been reported on just a bit.

Posted by: JackStraw at June 01, 2015 05:32 PM (g1DWB)

162 Posted by: Christopher Taylor at June 01, 2015 05:27 PM (39g3+)

You just perpetuate the myths. Bush never gave a bad speech. In fact , some of his speeches go down as some of the best of the Presidency, ie Whitehall , Reagan Eulogy,

Posted by: Cruzinator at June 01, 2015 05:32 PM (XX9+E)

163 >>> large part of capital-L Libertarianism, many have noted, seems to be a sort of performance art of ritualized disdain for the Squares and Stiffs of the right.

...see the new red eye

Posted by: north and judd at June 01, 2015 05:32 PM (FG/gQ)

164 "My wife and I could use some support prayers- she just got laid off."

Speaking of, I met up with some distant acquaintances recently. They're all longtime automatic straight-ticket Northern California liberal Democrats. The sort who backed Obama with huge enthusiasm in 2008 and again in 2012.

But in talking to them about what's been going on in their work lives recently, it's a long litany of unemployment and underemployment. Salaries not keeping up with inflation for those who are working. Deferred promotions and raises. The promised Obama economic renaissance hasn't happened for them.

And I think, although they would NEVER IN A MILLION YEARS openly admit this, that they have Obama fatigue. The bloom is off the rose. They're ready for a change of course. They might even very quietly vote for someone other than the Democrat next year.

I don't see anyone on the Republican side yet who is proving adroit at making a pitch to these sorts of voters.

Posted by: torquewrench at June 01, 2015 05:32 PM (noWW6)

165
By the way, for those who don't or won't remember, the Tea Party was formed at the end of the Bush administration to protest his expansion of Leviathan.

Does that ring a bell?!

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at June 01, 2015 05:32 PM (St6BJ)

166 I don't think the rift can be fixed either.

And reality is there aren't enough big L libertarians to form a government.

I sometimes that that is the point. If they never have to prove that they can do it better, they get to be the perpetual complainers, with no responsibility to get along with anyone, no responsibility to answer for their long disproven theories. They can live in fanasty land forever.

And that is why the culture and the government is sliding towards Totalitarianism.

Libertarians don't want to win, they would be expected to pony up, and then the problems would belong to them.

Much better to criticize endlessly than do any thing productive. No one could ever live up to the impossible, conflicting standards of Libertarians. It is entirely fantasy.

With means the Totalitarian Democrats continue to win forever.

Posted by: petunia at June 01, 2015 05:33 PM (VoCyE)

167 *reloads Drudge*

GAH!

(five minutes later)
*reloads Drudge*

GAH!

(five minutes later...

Posted by: weft cut-loop at June 01, 2015 05:33 PM (uctT+)

168 I don't have to choose between a lunatic and an asshole.

Posted by: DaveA at June 01, 2015 05:33 PM (DL2i+)

169 This is what gets me. The left screamed about how President Bush was the most divisive president of all time
***

They lie. The media lies. The only way to win is to figure out how to get around the media. That is the game we need to be playing. With optimism.

We better get our shit together by next year.

Gotta go, guitar lesson, gym, etc...Have fun kids.

Posted by: Lea at June 01, 2015 05:34 PM (lIU4e)

170 We will never agree 100% and today nothing less than 100% will be tolerated.

That's just the cosmetics of it.

The real problem is the out right lies.

Vote for us, we'll cut gubment.
Vote for us, we'll repeal O-care.
Vote for us we'll stop amnesty.

Posted by: Drill_Thrawl at June 01, 2015 05:34 PM (JOG+K)

171 I hate liberturdians

Posted by: Uncle Rick at June 01, 2015 05:34 PM (ZbB1q)

172 I know you're leaving.
I can't change your mind.
Been nice to know ya, but could ya
leave that sweet thang behind?

Posted by: JohnnyBoy at June 01, 2015 05:34 PM (8uhgy)

173 What this country needs is like 5 or 6 major political parties which would cause acrimony, confusion and division, allowing Texas to secede.

Seconded!

Posted by: rickb223 Straight, Conservative Clinger at June 01, 2015 05:35 PM (mhTL5)

174 164 Posted by: torquewrench at June 01, 2015 05:32 PM (noWW6

It's one thing to have "Obama fatigue," but what they need to have is "Leftist/Socialist fatigue." Obama is the icing on the past 50-100 years of American history.

I hope you can nicely edjumacate your acquaintances since right about now they seem rather receptive to reason. Scales are falling from the eyes. Hopefully it ain't too late.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at June 01, 2015 05:36 PM (St6BJ)

175 I do remember GHW Bush as president doing everything he could to distance himself from Reagan. Eight years after he lost the nomination, he was still butt-hurt. But he did that to his own (and the country's) own harm. Not that he made people want Clinton, but he sure made it possible for someone like Perot to siphon off the Reagan democrats. Conservatives have never recovered from this back-stabbing.

Posted by: bergerbilder at June 01, 2015 05:37 PM (ygfmC)

176 [I*reloads Drudge*

GAH!

(five minutes later)
*reloads Drudge*

GAH!

(five minutes later...

At some point, one gets sick of the Outrage! loop.

Posted by: ConservativeMonster at June 01, 2015 05:37 PM (0NdlF)

177 There can be hostility all around and still differ in degree.

Sure, but if you're going to write a "damn both their houses" piece, then you are certainly off base if one house is a mobile home and the other the Pentagon. Did some people on the conservative side go too far in criticism? Sure. As right as representative Scott was in saying Obama lied, that wasn't the time or place. Show some respect and decorum.

But compared to what the GOP elite did, does, and says? There isn't a comparison. And never in the history of the country has a party been so openly hostile and contemptuous of its own electorate. Never. There have been contentious times and some pretty boisterous, loud, and angry things said all through US history in politics. But not like this. This is utterly unprecedented.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at June 01, 2015 05:37 PM (39g3+)

178 AllenG, hang in there. Put more water in the soup, better times are coming.

Posted by: Jinx the Cat at June 01, 2015 05:37 PM (l3vZN)

179 [...]Or for poontang, like what the rest of us do?
Posted by: spongeworthy at June 01, 2015 05:29 PM (M90jo)

Hey. Hey. Hey! Don't be knocking poontang! It's the stuff of life!

Posted by: jwpaine, otherized for your protection at June 01, 2015 05:37 PM (0bXhD)

180 The republican party is finished.

Posted by: Dan in Michigan at June 01, 2015 05:37 PM (2yD4G)

181 /sigh ... fail at tags.

Posted by: ConservativeMonster at June 01, 2015 05:37 PM (0NdlF)

182 The biggest death blow to the GOP is that after WE
delivered them the Senate and the House, they still caved and acted like
the minority and the pussies they are. THAT is what will sink the GOP

Posted by: Nevergiveup at June 01, 2015 05:29 PM (rDqRv)

Before the 2014 election, I mused that the GOP would take the Senate...and nothing would change. Nothing rolled back, the same spend, spend, spend, tax, tax tax would continue. The American people were screaming for change and if they "stayed the course" they would lose not only the Senate in 2016, but the Presidency.

I fear my guess may be correct.

Posted by: DangerGirl and her 1.21 gigawatt Sanity Prod (tm) at June 01, 2015 05:37 PM (q20+R)

183 165
By the way, for those who don't or won't remember, the Tea Party was formed at the end of the Bush administration to protest his expansion of Leviathan.

Does that ring a bell?!

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at June 01, 2015 05:32 PM (St6BJ)

Ummm, no. Started on or around Feb. 2009. Now, it was about tarp but especially so because The Won decided to double down.

Posted by: Drill_Thrawl at June 01, 2015 05:37 PM (JOG+K)

184 "One of my core principles is that I will never engage in a politics in which I'm trying to divide people" - @POTUS

That's what kills me... it's the only thing he's good at.

But his idiot supporters (BIRM) will lap it up.

Posted by: hindmost at June 01, 2015 05:38 PM (7/oiP)

185 By the way, for those who don't or won't remember,
the Tea Party was formed at the end of the Bush administration to
protest his expansion of Leviathan.

Does that ring a bell?!

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at June 01, 2015 05:32 PM (St6BJ)

In response to TARP wasn't it?

Posted by: DangerGirl and her 1.21 gigawatt Sanity Prod (tm) at June 01, 2015 05:38 PM (q20+R)

186 183 Ummm, no. Started on or around Feb. 2009. Now, it was about tarp but especially so because The Won decided to double down.
Posted by: Drill_Thrawl at June 01, 2015 05:37 PM (JOG+K)

Umm, ummm, no, no. SCOAMF merely took what Bush did and amplified it by orders of magnitude. It most definitely was because of what Bush did in the final months of his term.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at June 01, 2015 05:39 PM (St6BJ)

187 I used to have a crush on Goth Fonzie. Thanks for ruining that, Ace.

Posted by: L, Elle at June 01, 2015 05:39 PM (2x3L+)

188 Not only would I not shed a tear if the establishment died, I would applaud.

Posted by: TC at June 01, 2015 05:39 PM (jqmxX)

189 Russia announced on Monday that it would start construction this year on a second nuclear plant in Iran, according to regional reports.

And you all are worried about intra-GOP fighting?

I wanna go out like Major Kong!

Posted by: Nevergiveup at June 01, 2015 05:39 PM (rDqRv)

190 Complete the dang fence!

Posted by: John McCain, 2010 at June 01, 2015 05:39 PM (l3vZN)

191 Sorry for the OT but it looks like a Waco judge has agreed to let most of the 170 bikers arrested and held on $1 million bond go if they sign a contract not to sue for wrongful arrest. What about the guys who got killed me wonders.

http://tinyurl.com/pvxlghg

Posted by: dartist at June 01, 2015 05:40 PM (ahBY0)

192
Sigh, I think Patsy the Chicken is going to get the ax for laying eggs in the hay bucket. She's been warn repeatedly....
Posted by: Bruce with a Wang!
.................................................
Hey, go easy on Patsy, she's had it rough. I oughta know.

Posted by: Tommy the Toaster at June 01, 2015 05:40 PM (wAQA5)

193 Posted by: DangerGirl and her 1.21 gigawatt Sanity Prod (tm) at June 01, 2015 05:38 PM (q20+R)

Not really but regard to the Obama stimulus package. TARP did what it intended to do and almost all of it has been recouped.

Posted by: Cruzinator at June 01, 2015 05:40 PM (XX9+E)

194
Before everyone jumps in my kishkes, the Tea Party movement certainly expanded in reaction to SCOAMF. But it was Bush's last few months that lit the fuse.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at June 01, 2015 05:40 PM (St6BJ)

195 And reality is there aren't enough big L libertarians to form a government.

I am convinced that Libertarians could not run a government by their very nature. But its not an issue, once pot becomes legal in half the states or more in a few years, at least half of the movement will become full time Democrats.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at June 01, 2015 05:40 PM (39g3+)

196 I wanna go out like Major Kong!

Sounds like some Slim Pickens there.

Posted by: SE Pa Moron at June 01, 2015 05:41 PM (xQX/f)

197 Posted by: J.J. Sefton at June 01, 2015 05:39 PM (St6BJ)

Two completely different programs .

Posted by: Cruzinator at June 01, 2015 05:41 PM (XX9+E)

198 189 Russia announced on Monday that it would start construction this year on a second nuclear plant in Iran, according to regional reports.

And you all are worried about intra-GOP fighting?

I wanna go out like Major Kong!
Posted by: Nevergiveup at June 01, 2015 05:39 PM (rDqRv)

If we actually had a real America-loving president, instead of a Man-chewin' Candidate, Putin would not be doing a fraction of the crap he has pulled.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at June 01, 2015 05:42 PM (St6BJ)

199 the Tea Party movement certainly expanded in reaction to SCOAMF. But it was Bush's last few months that lit the fuse.

I think a lot of people were getting ready to take to the streets with TARP but the Stimulus is what drove them there. It was an attempt by America to have an intervention with congress over their spending and congress laughed it off and got all his buddies to help shame the tea party off the map.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at June 01, 2015 05:42 PM (39g3+)

200 By the way, for those who don't or won't remember, the Tea Party was
formed at the end of the Bush administration to protest his expansion of
Leviathan.

Does that ring a bell?!

I don't know. I remember a lot of us were against TARP and the GOP house was prepared to save the country by voting it down and making folks eat the mess they were responsible for. But I don't think the term 'tea party' was in wide use to describe the opposition to DC until that guy on CNBC used it.

Posted by: Methos at June 01, 2015 05:43 PM (ZbV+0)

201 "I thought the Tea Partiers were getting excessively hostile and mean in their criticisms."

Because trying every other method and respecting the process had been failing. For decades. The levers of power were unwilling to concede and paid but lip service to those they said they represented. When a system fails, it's rather pointless to keep engaging the system.

The response to those who were just trying to be left alone and not have their lives micromanaged very expensively went pretty much as expected. "Leadership" was not - and will not - yield power because it is not their intention to serve.

I detest the Borg. I used to think it could be persuaded to change. It can't. It's dead to me. It can't be trusted. For its clasp on Liberty, it will fail. To me it has failed already. It's really just a matter of salting the Earth and scattering the stones of the house that imploded.

Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at June 01, 2015 05:43 PM (1CroS)

202 The L's should change their name to the Weed and Sex party. Most of the ones I know IRL really only care about one or both of those things.

Posted by: L, Elle at June 01, 2015 05:43 PM (2x3L+)

203 Instead of Texas seceding, we should kick out California. That would be 39 less Democratic representatives in the House, two less Democratic Senators and 55 less electoral votes for Democratic Presidents.

Also the hope that it would serve as a massive illegal alien magnet.

Posted by: Ken at June 01, 2015 05:43 PM (LXJ1e)

204 Rick Santelli's tea party rant was in the early months of 2009 when the democrats controlled congress.

It was disgruntled democrats at those hostile democrat town hall meetings. Disgruntled democrats who suddenly became independent.

Posted by: Armound45C at June 01, 2015 05:43 PM (n4VVw)

205 Rick Santelli's famous CNBC rant that should be considered the beginning of the Tea Party was in February 2009.

Posted by: Jinx the Cat at June 01, 2015 05:43 PM (l3vZN)

206 The trick is not to kill the establishment GOP, That is easy to do. The Trick is to do it without allowing the commie left democrats to take over and ruin the Country beyond repair.

Posted by: Nevergiveup at June 01, 2015 05:43 PM (rDqRv)

207 200 Posted by: Methos at June 01, 2015 05:43 PM (ZbV+0)

It certainly coalesced when Rick Santelli blew a gasket on television.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at June 01, 2015 05:44 PM (St6BJ)

208 As much as I dislike the Libertarians and think they are bad for the Party, it's not the Libertarians who lost that last election for us. It was the Establishment and their guy who lost.

Posted by: Y-not at June 01, 2015 05:45 PM (RWGcK)

209 The Tea Party definitely got started from all the corporate bailouts from Dubya and then Obama and ObamaCare put it into over drive.

The Tea Party was definitely a potent phenomenon, I think it pulled a lot of fed up people that weren't vey political but it unfortunately got hijacked by a combination of political con artists and SoCon nuttery.

When it was focused on fiscal issues along with some real populism, it resonated.

I don't even know what "Tea Party" means anymore.

Posted by: McAdams at June 01, 2015 05:45 PM (qBmEy)

210 Sure, most Libertarians are not so much concerned about philosophical issues of liberty and independence as they are "let me [insert personal perversion or illegal activity] without hassle, maaann."

There are certainly Libertarians with integrity and an allegiance to freedom. There are some great thinkers and noble people in the movement. I bet there's at least one per state.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at June 01, 2015 05:45 PM (39g3+)

211 I promise I won't hit you again, baby. Just give me one more chance.

Posted by: GOPe at June 01, 2015 05:45 PM (ecDRv)

212 It most definitely was because of what Bush did in the final months of his term.

The Lefties were jacking off to Bush's approval numbers in the 20s. To get that low, he had to lose part of his base. That was the beginning of the Tea Party.

Posted by: Pappy O'Daniel at June 01, 2015 05:45 PM (oVJmc)

213 205 Rick Santelli's famous CNBC rant that should be considered the beginning of the Tea Party was in February 2009.
Posted by: Jinx the Cat at June 01, 2015 05:43 PM (l3vZN)

Yes, but he was only articulating the mass rage that had been building to that point since well before February of '09.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at June 01, 2015 05:46 PM (St6BJ)

214 202 The L's should change their name to the Weed and Sex party. Most of the ones I know IRL really only care about one or both of those things.

Don't forget SILVER DIMES!

...and gold.

Posted by: wooga at June 01, 2015 05:46 PM (SOXWO)

215 Posted by: Y-not on the phone at June 01, 2015 05:17 PM (RWGcK)

Thanks, Y-not.

I think we'll be okay. The biggest adjustment is that she's probably going to have to go back to work full time...

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - Not dead yet at June 01, 2015 05:47 PM (kff5f)

216 211 I promise I won't hit you again, baby. Just give me one more chance.
Posted by: GOPe at June 01, 2015 05:45 PM (ecDRv)

GOPe = Ike

We The People = Tina

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at June 01, 2015 05:47 PM (St6BJ)

217 The issuers whose base does Rand Paul pull from

Because I think he appeals to more democrat voters than republicans. I think he will pull more from Hillarys base than from the right

Posted by: Thunderb at June 01, 2015 05:47 PM (zOTsN)

218 Again, I invite the coward who is sock puppeting my nic to introduce herself at the NoVaMoMee. I'll be there and I'd love to meet you.

Posted by: LadyS at June 01, 2015 05:47 PM (xYNhJ)

219 it's not the Libertarians who lost that last election for us. It was the Establishment and their guy who lost.

This is completely true. It wasn't social conservatives, it wasn't libertarians, it was a combination of fraud, media deception, and the choice of a middle of the road nobody who inspired no one.

unfortunately got hijacked by a combination of political con artists and SoCon nuttery.

This will never stop making me laugh out loud and point at the clown.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at June 01, 2015 05:47 PM (39g3+)

220 I divorced with the cormnibus bill. I could buy the whole we only have the HOR and need the senate to fight Obama and preserve The Constitutional republic. Then immediate cave quicker than Reid would have.

Lesser of two evils used to be the democrats at 9 and the republicans at 5. Now it si donks at 9 GOPe at 8.95. So no discernible difference So third party.

As I have said before, Many democrats will go to the split GOPe. The fascist democrats will keep the hardcore totalitarians. I think it will be far closer to 1/3 all around.

Posted by: Jukin, Former Republican at June 01, 2015 05:48 PM (TV9BR)

221 214 202 The L's should change their name to the Weed and Sex party. Most of the ones I know IRL really only care about one or both of those things.

Don't forget SILVER DIMES!

...and gold.
Posted by: wooga

And distilled vinegar. Gotta keep them chemtrails in check.

Posted by: Prince Ludwig the Indestructible at June 01, 2015 05:48 PM (tgnRB)

222 Posted by: LadyS at June 01, 2015 05:47 PM (xYNhJ)

Settle down Francis

Posted by: Cruzinator at June 01, 2015 05:48 PM (XX9+E)

223 What killed the Tea Party was the establishment, of both parties, and the media, and the government, working together to paint it as a fringe, racist movement.

They wanted it dead. Small government threatens them all.

Posted by: Pappy O'Daniel at June 01, 2015 05:48 PM (oVJmc)

224 208 As much as I dislike the Libertarians and think they are bad for the Party, it's not the Libertarians who lost that last election for us. It was the Establishment and their guy who lost.
Posted by: Y-not

But who was the alternative that ran?

It's not like in 1976 when it was Reagan vs Ford, the alternative was non-serious candidates like Gingrich and Santorum.

Posted by: McAdams at June 01, 2015 05:48 PM (qBmEy)

225 at end of post:

* It's amazing to me that these "leaders" see that people aren't following them and keep coming to the same conclusion: "There must be something wrong with these followers."

No wonder they get along so well with Obama.

100% spot on.

anyway I think about it, there ain't many reasons this is so.

Posted by: dDan at June 01, 2015 05:48 PM (hwYmz)

226 I promise I won't hit you again, baby. Just give me one more chance.

No more half measures, Walter.

Posted by: derit at June 01, 2015 05:48 PM (jT+gh)

227 Somewhere along the line, the progtard idea-

that you simply lie to the voters to get into power and then do whatever you want because if you were honest, the voters would never put you into power

became the Common Sense Position for All Politicians.

Not that there weren't always lying politicians but not to this extent where...well, hell pick your favorite recent example-

F'rinstance, Rubio runs on opposing amnesty- Gets voted in - then farts all over his supporters by supporting a frikkin Schumer plan for amnesty, etc, etc, etc. Boneless and Turdle - double etc.

If we can't on the politicians for whom we vote to keep their word-

then our Representative Republic is dead.

And it all becomes what we have now - a huge scramble to grab as much money as they can from the taxpayer and future generations-

and feather their nests so when it all collapses they'll still be on top.

I wish I knew what the cure was, but Boneless and Turdle have murdered the Republican party in a way that Obama and the Dims could only dream about.

Once trust is gone...Why should I vote for you?

Posted by: naturalfake at June 01, 2015 05:49 PM (0cMkb)

228 54
I get the part about the Tea Party and the Establishment, but the Paul
thing, well he and his father are just nuts and should be paid no never
mind. The Rands will be the ultimate ruination of the Republican Party

Posted by: Nevergiveup at June 01, 2015 05:12 PM (rDqRv)

I get what you mean. Security is far preferable to freedom and liberty.

Posted by: Sarcastic Man at June 01, 2015 05:49 PM (jsYc/)

229 Uh oh, theres-a gonna be a cat fight. MEOW.

Posted by: DangerGirl and her 1.21 gigawatt Sanity Prod (tm) at June 01, 2015 05:49 PM (q20+R)

230 Hope to meet you there, too, cruzinator

Posted by: LadyS at June 01, 2015 05:49 PM (xYNhJ)

231 Young voters are more likely to embrace Rand than Hillary

Posted by: Thunderb at June 01, 2015 05:50 PM (zOTsN)

232 The question is moot.

Posted by: Math, Dancing in the flames of the Burning Time at June 01, 2015 05:50 PM (evdj2)

233 Rand is too much like His old Man for Me...

Posted by: donna at June 01, 2015 05:50 PM (Bn6aD)

234 I find the logical consistency of libertarian positions to be particularly annoying. It's almost as if they take this liberty thing seriously!

Posted by: Chewbama at June 01, 2015 05:51 PM (nlQae)

235 America was genuinely, deeply, fiercely pissed off at the TARP bailouts of huge corporations as they lost their homes. INCREDIBLY so. John McCain had a golden opportunity to set himself apart, show leadership, and take the bull by the horns when he "suspended his campaign" to go back to Washington.

He could have stood up and said "something needs to be done about the banking laws that caused this but TARP is not it. I absolutely refuse to vote to bail out multi million dollar corporations for acting like idiots when Americans across this great nation are losing their homes without hope of any assistance or bailouts. I refuse to approve welfare for the richest, most powerful people in the nation as the rest of the country suffers and I call for my fellow congressmen to join me."

This would have set him apart and above Obama. But he was an idiot who went along and did what he was told.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at June 01, 2015 05:51 PM (39g3+)

236 Posted by: LadyS at June 01, 2015 05:49 PM (

I'll be the one wearing a red carnation. You can't miss me.

Posted by: Cruzinator at June 01, 2015 05:51 PM (XX9+E)

237
re: Tea Party dates

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tea_Party_movement#History

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at June 01, 2015 05:52 PM (kdS6q)

238 ***"I thought the Tea Partiers were getting excessively hostile and mean in
their criticisms. But then the Establishment lived down to its
reputation. Rather than taking the long and sober view of things -- that
a political coalition depended on at least some reserve of intraparty
amity -- they showed their full contempt of the Tea Party and essentially declared them enemies."***

This strikes me as an inversion of the actual order of occurrence.

Did anyone post any evidence for TEA Partiers' "excessive hostility and meanness"?

Just because I can't seem to recall any doesn't mean it didn't happen, but I can certainly remember the GOPe flailing against their putative allies.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at June 01, 2015 05:52 PM (xSCb6)

239 Turtle has handed the senate to the donks and most likely the presidency. Obama is going to keep EOing and the GOPe will just suck his dick.

I really miss Harry Reid.

Posted by: Jukin, Former Republican at June 01, 2015 05:53 PM (TV9BR)

240 Posted by: McAdams at June 01, 2015 05:45 PM (qBmEy)

"SoCon nuttery."

You're not helping.

Posted by: bergerbilder at June 01, 2015 05:53 PM (ygfmC)

241 >>But who was the alternative that ran?

It's not about the primary. It's about the general.

Romney was sold to us as Mr Electable. He was the safe candidate who got along well with all the right people within the GOP Establishment.

He was their guy. And he was running against a POTUS whose first term had galvanized a lot of opposition.

They lost.

Posted by: Y-not at June 01, 2015 05:54 PM (RWGcK)

242 You're not helping.

Depends on who he wants to help.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at June 01, 2015 05:54 PM (39g3+)

243 Romney was sold to us as Mr Electable. He was the safe candidate who got along well with all the right people within the GOP Establishment.

He was their guy. And he was running against a POTUS whose first term had galvanized a lot of opposition.

They lost.
Posted by: Y-not

Why is Bob Dole getting deja vu?

Posted by: Bob Dole at June 01, 2015 05:55 PM (tgnRB)

244 Ace, btw, if you're reading comments, this is one of the best analytical/ psychological posts you've written in a while. Great writing.

Posted by: L, Elle at June 01, 2015 05:55 PM (2x3L+)

245 Rand would be better than Hillary!

But that's a pretty ckufing low bar to leap.

Like his Dad, Rand says things that are so right you find yourself nodding along-

then the next second he flies off Venus with the crazy crap.

Frankly, somebody like, oh say Perry, who's made the noises before should promise to legalize grass-

and Rand is done. That's all his support is about anyway. Legal dope.

And with Perry - you don't get the crazee.

Posted by: naturalfake at June 01, 2015 05:55 PM (0cMkb)

246 Posted by: Burn the Witch at June 01, 2015 05:52 PM (xSCb6)

Not that I did not disagree with all she has to say but Sarah Palin bashed the GOPe pretty good which is ironic since she endorsed McCain for reelection. Quid pro quo requirement likely.

Posted by: Cruzinator at June 01, 2015 05:56 PM (XX9+E)

247 "If everyone in the world would just do what I say and STFU things would be perfect!!!"

That's pretty much what I hear from everyone- D, R, L, I... whatever. Well guess what: No one is going to do it your way, no matter who you are.

Here's a simple solution: How about we go back to government (federal, state, and local) doing nothing but building roads and maintaining a military. Sure, we can have debates on the size and scope of those things. Those are productive, even when the debates result in stagnation.

All the rest: Individual responsibility. You can't? Learn how... and not on my dime. Go get an entry level job and earn your way up. You're sick? Sorry to hear it. Go talk to your family or a charity (and government has no role in charity).

A bunch of pretty smart folks went to a whole lot of trouble to earn us the freedom of being responsible for our own destinies about 200 years ago. We've spent darn near every minute since then trying to not be responsible for ourselves again. Time to be adults or get out of the way of people who want to be adults.

Posted by: Damiano at June 01, 2015 05:57 PM (XItbt)

248 Bush lied to our President of Color and that really bothers the good citizens of Brattleboro. That really bothers us and we demand Presdent Obama do something about this major problem facing this country. Bush lied and persons of color died. Time to act against Bush before the best Black Presdent leaves office........

Posted by: Mary Clogginstien from Brattleboro, VT at June 01, 2015 05:57 PM (lNSdJ)

249 I've viewed it as a sort of "take your ball and go home" tantrum by the establishment. You expect that sort of stuff from the tea party or other upstart groups. The threats to not vote or the candidate not endorsing the primary winner. They are the upstart.

But the establishment is supposed to be going " trust in the system. Work in the primaries and respect the results and we will push the apple cart towards the direction you want." Well they weren't doing that. And once some of those upstarts started to win or threaten the establishment candidates it became obvious that what they were saying wasn't "trust the system." You out on the sunglasses and can see what was really written was "shut up and vote for our guy and we might throw you a bone sometime. And if you pick someone we don't like we aren't supporting them."

Posted by: Buzzion at June 01, 2015 05:57 PM (vANgt)

250 223 What killed the Tea Party was the establishment, of both parties, and the media, and the government, working together to paint it as a fringe, racist movement.

They wanted it dead. Small government threatens them all.
Posted by: Pappy O'Daniel

I think it was also a lot of self-inflicted wounds.

To me the Tea Party was the 2010 election, and most of the high profile candidates were just really kooky like Christine O'Donnel, Ken Buck, Sharon Angle, Joe Miller, Dan Maes, etc

All of these people crashed and burned pretty badly. Had they actually won things would have turned out differently.

Only a fraction did well like Marco Rubio, who was at one time considered the poster child for the Tea Party movement but then screwed himself with Comprehensive Immigration.

Posted by: McAdams at June 01, 2015 05:58 PM (qBmEy)

251 >>Once trust is gone...Why should I vote for you?

Trust on issues is gone. But, you know what, I can handle some betrayals for the long game of winning back the White House.

Thing is, they got the Senate back and immediately shat on the base.

And they ran Mr Electable against a guy who'd had a crappy first term and lost that, too.

So I not only don't trust the Establishment on a large number of issues of importance to me, I also think they're incompetent boobs.

Look at that Memorial Day tweet by the Democrats. It was awful. Mockworthy. Terrible.

But the GOP's response? Nada.

Posted by: Y-not at June 01, 2015 05:58 PM (RWGcK)

252 I'm just worried that because of Paul's actions, the NSA might not be able to read my email for a few days. And if they can't read my email, they can't read the terrorists' emails!

Rand is worse than the pot!

Posted by: Chewbama at June 01, 2015 05:58 PM (nlQae)

253 The L's should change their name to the Weed and Sex party. Most of the ones I know IRL really only care about one or both of those things.

Don't forget SILVER DIMES!

...and gold.

And weed!

Posted by: rickb223 Straight, Conservative Clinger at June 01, 2015 05:58 PM (mhTL5)

254 The problem is that the Republican establishment
found the appeal of government money just like the Democrats before them
and now they want to run Leviathan instead of scaling it back.

Posted by: 18-1

The Tea Party is the only group that seems to understand liberty in all it's manifestations.

No wonder everyone wants to destroy them.

Posted by: Lauren

And there you have it. The GOPe wants to run the Leviathan with all the bells, whistles, backsheesh, payola, etc. McCain, for all his vanity, is just in it for this.

And only a fraction of the electorate really cares about the intangible liberty. Because we've "always had liberty". It's going to disappear in a breathtaking moment.

There is a thing about speaking or writing with words, and there is a meta-message in many things that are communicated by politicians; certain words and phrases repeated over and over again. "Community", "middle-America", "diversity"; you get the picture. It's like listening to Barry's speeches and counting the number of times the narcissist says "I", "me" and so on.
Where do people actually talk about Liberty? Equality all the time. Fairness, justice, blah, blah, blah.

They (all or most politicians) like to manage outcomes so that they can claim credit. See what I did? Vote for ME.

Our moral and ethical base as a nation has permutated into something else, and the semantics or code words of speeches by politicians are a meta-clue to this.

Earlier today, in the Morning Dump, was the excerpt from Vince Vaughn's interview in British GQ. He said a lot of unnacceptable things, didn't he? Words that are off limits. Words that are trigger warnings (literally).

We are no longer a free people. Which is why, regardless of what anybody says or does in the next 18 months, America will elect Hillary. We've been brainwashed into doing it, for lack of a better word. Semantically programmed by the repetition of political NewsSpeak.

Posted by: Bossy Conservative....lost in America at June 01, 2015 05:59 PM (RFeQD)

255 and Rand is done. That's all his support is about anyway. Legal dope.

Posted by: naturalfake at June 01, 2015 05:55 PM (0cMkb)

Because everyone loves them some NSA snooping?

Posted by: GOPe at June 01, 2015 05:59 PM (ecDRv)

256 Like his Dad, Rand says things that are so right you find yourself nodding along-

then the next second he flies off Venus with the crazy crap.

The thing is, until this election, I don't remember him slouching off into crazyland like this. I still think he's being advised badly.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at June 01, 2015 05:59 PM (39g3+)

257 "A couple of years ago I frequently chided both the Establishment and Tea Party wings..."

You wrote "chided". I think the correct term (here, at least), is "chode".

Posted by: Oliver Cromulent at June 01, 2015 06:00 PM (m0egL)

258

Luap the Lesser vs. The Man-chewin' Candidate.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at June 01, 2015 06:00 PM (St6BJ)

259 Excellent. I'll buy you a drink, cruzinator.
It''s fine that someone doesn't like my opinion of Rand Paul. Sock puppeting a regular is supposed to be prohibited in the AoS Style Guide, though, and I don't do it to commenters I dislike. Some coward has decided I'm an okay target. I don't mind disagreement; I hate cowards.

Posted by: LadyS at June 01, 2015 06:00 PM (xYNhJ)

260 I find the logical consistency of libertarian positions to be particularly annoying. It's almost as if they take this liberty thing seriously!

It's great we can fall back upon a common culture to avoid resorting to legal pressure in maintaining society in the every nook and cranny. Es verdad, no?

Posted by: derit at June 01, 2015 06:01 PM (jT+gh)

261 The smart establishment move would have been to move toward and co-opt the tea party. Nothing doing from Boehner/McConnell/McCain/Graham. That crowd seems much more passionate when denouncing TP types than when disagreeing with their "good friends" across the aisle.

Posted by: duke at June 01, 2015 06:01 PM (ChY2Q)

262 I'm just worried that because of Paul's actions, the NSA might not be able to read my email for a few days. And if they can't read my email, they can't read the terrorists' emails!

Do you seriously believe the NSA isn't going on doing exactly what it always had been doing? Really?

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at June 01, 2015 06:01 PM (39g3+)

263 We are so f**ked

Posted by: donna at June 01, 2015 06:02 PM (Bn6aD)

264 What killed the Tea Party was the establishment, of both parties, and the media, and the government, working together to paint it as a fringe, racist movement.

They wanted it dead. Small government threatens them all.

This x 1000.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this sh1t at June 01, 2015 06:02 PM (0HooB)

265 Frankly, somebody like, oh say Perry, who's made the noises before should promise to legalize grass-
---

Not an endorsement and I do not know if he can overcome his '12 run, but Perry has signaled a Federalist approach on drugs (also "criminal justice reform" while he was still governor of TX) and on same sex marriage.

He's not perfect, but I think Perry might be one of the more authentically true believers in Federalism.

Posted by: Y-not at June 01, 2015 06:02 PM (RWGcK)

266 The IRS kiled the Tea Party,the establishment was well pleased.

Posted by: steevy at June 01, 2015 06:03 PM (mGBKM)

267
McCain needs to get a tan and Rand needs a haircut.

Posted by: John Boehner at June 01, 2015 06:03 PM (wAQA5)

268 We are so f**ked

We are so terribly fucked.

#WASTF

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this sh1t at June 01, 2015 06:03 PM (0HooB)

269 Burn the Witch: "Did anyone post any evidence for TEA Partiers' 'excessive hostility and meanness'?"

By definition, to protest the sanctioned crime spree of abuses would be considered excessively hostile and mean. The Tea Party was "mouthing off".

No, you're right. There wasn't any actual hostility other than rhetorical jabs. Well, maybe some trash was thrown into a waste bin harshly at an outdoor protest, but that was pretty much it.

The Establishment has smeared the TEA Party all along because it, the TP, actually wanted to change a corrupt system. A corrupt system surely doesn't want to change. There's the conflict.

And Ckuf McCain in the ear. (Was that hostile?)

Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at June 01, 2015 06:03 PM (1CroS)

270 We'd be better off with multiple parties. On both sides of things.

The two party system is killing us. It forces us to vote in monolith blocks for shit. Why should I oppose tarriffs on foreign goods? The foreigners put tarriffs on us. Why are we the chumps with a trade deficit?

The GOP is a party for slave labor and 'free' trade, and the occasional missile flung at a country. Everything else it is liberal on.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at June 01, 2015 06:03 PM (crTFl)

271 It's not about the primary. It's about the general.

Romney was sold to us as Mr Electable. He was the safe candidate who got along well with all the right people within the GOP Establishment.

He was their guy. And he was running against a POTUS whose first term had galvanized a lot of opposition.

They lost.
Posted by: Y-not

But here's the thing, you have to have an alternative, we couldn't field "Not Romney".

I think many conservatives didn't want a moderate like Romney did so because there was no alternative, I know that's how I felt.

The other irony was Romney's main competition were more Establishment than he was. Gingrich was a former Speaker of the House that was a lobbyist for Freddie mac. That's basically like Boehner running for President. Santorum basically started the K Street project in the Senate and was the biggest reason Arlen Specter stayed in the Senate.

Posted by: McAdams at June 01, 2015 06:04 PM (qBmEy)

272 Do you seriously believe the NSA isn't going on doing exactly what it always had been doing? Really?
Posted by: Christopher Taylor

It's hard to do anything other than post stupid talking points after a few hits from their skull bong. We're just lucky they haven't brought up the "banksters" yet.

Posted by: Prince Ludwig the Indestructible at June 01, 2015 06:04 PM (tgnRB)

273 Security is far preferable to freedom and liberty.
Posted by: Sarcastic Man at June 01, 2015 05:49 PM (jsYc/)

yeah that's a straw man argument, but it sounds nice so go run with it

Posted by: Nevergiveup at June 01, 2015 06:04 PM (rDqRv)

274 Sock-puppeting when the puppet is misspelled to indicate that it is a sock-puppet, as it is above, is pretty common, actually.

Posted by: Y-not at June 01, 2015 06:05 PM (RWGcK)

275 "Before the 2014 election, I mused that the GOP would take the Senate...and nothing would change."

My prediction for 2014 was that with Mitch McConnell taking over as Senate Majority Leader, everything would work pretty much the way it did under Harry Reid.

With the exception that there would not be a crick up a holler anywhere in backwoods Kentucky that would lack for a giant federal dam project.

So far working out just as expected.

Posted by: torquewrench at June 01, 2015 06:05 PM (noWW6)

276 Remember when the GOP told blacks That the TEA party was racist so an aging Senate pig who fucked animals in his youth could go back to the trough?

That was about the time I said no more GOP.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at June 01, 2015 06:06 PM (crTFl)

277 Snoodling World Champion 1997 at May 30, 2015 07:59 AM (Q819Q)

Posted by: Lad Ys, pretending that Rand Paul is a GOP outsider at June 01, 2015 05:04 PM (Q819Q)

Just so everyone knows who the prick is.

Posted by: Buzzion at June 01, 2015 06:06 PM (vANgt)

278 because they approach conservatives like myself

I hate to be "that guy" but this is a grammar pet peeve for me.

That should be written, "because they approach conservatives like me...." "They" can't approach "myself."

Sorry, I was just venting on this earlier today and told myself, "You must correct the next person who does this."

Grammar asshole out.

Posted by: Baron Von Ottomatic at June 01, 2015 06:07 PM (e/W+h)

279 Do you seriously believe the NSA isn't going on doing exactly what it always had been doing? Really?

I figure they'll slow down for 2-3 days to establish plausible deniability.

Posted by: Chewbama at June 01, 2015 06:07 PM (nlQae)

280 He's not perfect, but I think Perry might be one of the more authentically true believers in Federalism.
Posted by: Y-not

Maybe, but what killed Perry in the primary (besides shitting the bed on stage multiple times) was he was open borders.

He supported the magnets that bring illegals here (like subsidized college tuition) and wouldn't even support something as basic as a border fence. And then went on to insult people as heartless for challenging him on it.

Posted by: McAdams at June 01, 2015 06:07 PM (qBmEy)

281 Hijacking nics is strictly forbidden

Posted by: Nevergaveup at June 01, 2015 06:07 PM (8uhgy)

282 "Romney was sold to us as Mr Electable. He was the safe candidate who got along well with all the right people within the GOP Establishment."

The party establishment elders have made the same pitch every four years since Reagan left. Don't go and throw your vote away on some unelectable extremist! Go with the safe moderate choice!

What they would like for you to forget is that they also called Reagan an unelectable extremist.

Posted by: torquewrench at June 01, 2015 06:07 PM (noWW6)

283 Look at that Memorial Day tweet by the Democrats. It was awful. Mockworthy. Terrible.

But the GOP's response? Nada.

Posted by: Y-not at June 01, 2015 05:58 PM (RWGcK)

Oh now, Y-not, the GOP had a response. They had their own stupid tweet about a Memorial day sale on "Miss Me Yet" merch!

Posted by: DangerGirl and her 1.21 gigawatt Sanity Prod (tm) at June 01, 2015 06:09 PM (q20+R)

284 Lindsey talks like a fag and his shit's all retarded.

Posted by: Mike Huckabee at June 01, 2015 06:09 PM (wAQA5)

285 and Rand is done. That's all his support is about anyway. Legal dope.

Posted by: naturalfake at June 01, 2015 05:55 PM (0cMkb)

Because everyone loves them some NSA snooping?

Posted by: GOPe at June 01, 2015 05:59 PM (ecDRv)

No.

But as long as we have open borders, and nonsense like pursuing "right-wing terrorists" instead of muslims, foreign drug gangs, radical leftards, and radical ectoards-

we are pretty much stuck with the NSA.

Like it or not.

And Rand is an open borders guy, so....yeah, he's a big part of the problem.

But, wheeeeeeeee legal Pot!!!111!!!! Yay!!11

Posted by: naturalfake at June 01, 2015 06:10 PM (0cMkb)

286 What they would like for you to forget is that they also called Reagan an unelectable extremist.

Posted by: torquewrench at June 01, 2015 06:07 PM (noWW6)

=======
Oh, they did. It worked on me. I attended a GHWB campaign rally in NC during the 1980 GOP primary season and I was pretty pleased for the chance to shake his hand. Ronald Reagan won NC handily in the primary, of course. Lesson learned.

Posted by: mrp at June 01, 2015 06:11 PM (JBggj)

287 But here's the thing, you have to have an alternative, we couldn't field "Not Romney".

I think many conservatives didn't want a moderate like Romney did so because there was no alternative, I know that's how I felt.
--

We may be talking at cross-purposes. I'll try once more, then I gotta dash.

The purpose of the Republican Party is to get the nominee, whoever it is, elected.

In 2012 they (the Republican Party leaders) had a nominee that they really wanted. They sold him to the GOP primary voters primarily based on his general election appeal and electability. This was despite the warning signs that a good chunk of traditional GOP voters were wary of Romney's "severe" conservatism.

So it seems to me the job of the party officials and consultants and talking heads was to get Mitt elected. But instead of trying to shore up support within their own base of traditional GOP voters, they ignored the base, plus showed a lot of political ineptness in the general election campaign itself.

I think we could nominate Jesus or Zombie Reagan and the idiots in charge of the GOP (the party officials and their circle of campaign consultants and donors) would screw it up.

I'm pretty pragmatic as conservatives go. But what I've observed is a GOP that not only preemptively surrenders on issues important to me, but a party that is not particularly good at the job of winning national elections.

Posted by: Y-not at June 01, 2015 06:11 PM (RWGcK)

288 Romney did not want to win. For whatever reason. That's why he lost. Enough said about Romney.

Posted by: bergerbilder at June 01, 2015 06:11 PM (ygfmC)

289 This is depressing... How about some more pictures of Caitlin Jenner....

Posted by: donna at June 01, 2015 06:12 PM (Bn6aD)

290 OT, I just found out that campus carry passed and is on the way to Governor Abbott to sign. First open carry and now campus carry in Texas. Oh No, there will be blood running in the streets, shootouts on every corner, bullets exploding in chemical fires (in colleges). I'm not sure what else but it will be bad./sarc/

Posted by: lindafell is cruzin' at June 01, 2015 06:13 PM (xVgrA)

291 Romney lied to and about our Presdent of Color and that is the simple reason he lost. The American people are not stooped !!!!!!!!

Posted by: Mary Clogginstien from Brattleboro, VT at June 01, 2015 06:13 PM (lNSdJ)

292 Rubio should go back to Cuba and Jeb should go back to Mexico.

Posted by: Rick Santorum at June 01, 2015 06:13 PM (wAQA5)

293 287.

Regardless of who this mystery cabal is, the Republican voters decide.

I have no doubt the Establishment wants Jeb Bush as the nominee, but it's not going to happen.

Posted by: McAdams at June 01, 2015 06:14 PM (qBmEy)

294 288
this

Posted by: Mr Wizard at June 01, 2015 06:14 PM (eOpVe)

295 The party establishment elders have made the same pitch every four years since Reagan left. Don't go and throw your vote away on some unelectable extremist! Go with the safe moderate choice!

What they would like for you to forget is that they also called Reagan an unelectable extremist.

Well, the GOPe is doing a bang-up job ignoring the elephants in the room which are all the current problems brought about by the Prog/Coms and their mishandling of just about everything. A shitty economy being needlessly overregulated nearly to death, children being brainwashed by skools and our enemies emboldened all over the world, just for starters.

Just once, I'd like to hear a candidate say, "Well, if this current administration was actually following the Constitution they swore an oath to uphold, we wouldn't be in this mess."

They absolutely refuse to even acknowledge what everyone beyond the Beltway sees each and every day of their lives. By any measure you care to name, TFG's Reign of Error has been and continues to be a massive failure of nearly Biblical proportion.

But nooooo, not a single Repumpkin dares even mention it.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this sh1t at June 01, 2015 06:15 PM (0HooB)

296 secession is cession.

Posted by: steinmetz at June 01, 2015 06:15 PM (CrYC8)

297 291 The American people are not stooped !!!!!!!!
Posted by: Mary Clogginstien from Brattleboro, VT

Wait, whut?? They're not??

Posted by: lindafell is cruzin' at June 01, 2015 06:15 PM (xVgrA)

298 ,,, i eill not cede.

Posted by: steinmetz at June 01, 2015 06:15 PM (CrYC8)

299 @292
Speaking of which:

Rand Paul PAC runs birther ad attacking Ted Cruz

http://www.redstate.com/2015/05/30/rand-paul-pac-runs-birther-ad-attacking-ted-cruz/

OK, now I really have to go. Catch you later!

Posted by: Y-not at June 01, 2015 06:15 PM (RWGcK)

300 Put me down as wanting a divorce from both McCain and Paul. Which I suspect is most people here. Off to read the comments.

Posted by: Thing from Snowy Mountain at June 01, 2015 06:15 PM (ILSfc)

301 >>McCain needs to get a tan and Rand needs a haircut.

Oh, and I need another scotch. It's after 6 PM DC time and I've only had...well that's not important.

*hic*

Posted by: John Boehner at June 01, 2015 06:16 PM (sQzB6)

302 Rubio should go back to Cuba and Jeb should go back to Mexico.
Posted by: Rick Santorum at June 01, 2015 06:13 PM (wAQA5)

You should go back to Burlington Sweater Factory.

Posted by: Goth Fonzie's Shark at June 01, 2015 06:16 PM (W5DcG)

303 i.e.... i will not cede.

Posted by: steinmetz at June 01, 2015 06:16 PM (CrYC8)

304
The American people are not stooped !!!!!!!!
..........................
Approx 51% have proven themselves stunningly so.

Posted by: wth at June 01, 2015 06:16 PM (wAQA5)

305 288 Romney did not want to win. For whatever reason. That's why he lost. Enough said about Romney.

Wish he hadn't knee-capped so many potential GOP candidates, then.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at June 01, 2015 06:16 PM (crTFl)

306 Romney did not want to win. For whatever reason. That's why he lost. Enough said about Romney.

I attended a rally two or three nights before the election and he had completely run out of gas. And the Fat Man was with him and gave one of the lamest pep talks I've ever heard. Something went wrong there in the last few of months leading up to November.

Posted by: Uncle Busyhands at June 01, 2015 06:16 PM (Dwehj)

307 Posted by: Y-not at June 01, 2015 06:05 PM (RWGcK)

I hate when people do that.

Posted by: Why-knot at June 01, 2015 06:16 PM (Zu3d9)

308 ... never mind.

Posted by: steinmetz at June 01, 2015 06:16 PM (CrYC8)

309 We hate the Duggars and are fawning over the Kardassians.

That's what is wrong.

Posted by: blaster at June 01, 2015 06:17 PM (2Ocf1)

310 *hic*

Let me join you, John!

Posted by: Ready For Hillary!!11!! at June 01, 2015 06:18 PM (Dwehj)

311 Posted by: McAdams at June 01, 2015 05:45 PM (qBmEy)

Has anyone, including Malor, ever posted anything which demonstrates that the TEA Party ever became about SoCon nuttery?

Whateverthefvck that might be in the first place?

Posted by: Burn the Witch at June 01, 2015 06:18 PM (xSCb6)

312 Posted by: lindafell is cruzin' at June 01, 2015 06:13 PM (xVgrA)

You forgot rape.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at June 01, 2015 06:18 PM (Zu3d9)

313 309 We hate the Duggars and are fawning over the Kardassians.

That's what is wrong.

You are so right...

Posted by: donna at June 01, 2015 06:18 PM (Bn6aD)

314 You forgot rape.

Twice.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this sh1t at June 01, 2015 06:20 PM (0HooB)

315
This is depressing... How about some more pictures of Caitlin Jenner....
Posted by: donna at June 01, 2015 06:12 PM (Bn6aD)
..............................
When exactly do you need them?

Posted by: Vanity Fair Photoshop Dept. at June 01, 2015 06:20 PM (wAQA5)

316 They never want to admit fault Ynot. During the primaries I got into it with rino lover jeffb because he accused me that I would throw blame at everyone else if perry lost. And I straight up told him then that if perry lost then it was on perry. Alexthechick and Cochran both have said the same thing about perry on their podcast. But yet the establishment lovers never do that for Romney. They never admit fault in their strategy to get him elected or are willing to lay the blame at romneys feet or his campaign. It's always the fault of others.

Posted by: Buzzion at June 01, 2015 06:20 PM (z/Ubi)

317 I' voting for my car, Brad.

Posted by: Stupid woman on a car insurance commercial at June 01, 2015 06:21 PM (W5DcG)

318 Grammar asshole out.
Posted by: Baron Von Ottomatic at June 01, 2015 06:07 PM (e/W+h)

Mr. Hole; I join you in your pedantic quest. It drives me nuts too. Anytime someone has the urge to use "myself," they should try "me" in their head first.

Posted by: duke at June 01, 2015 06:21 PM (ChY2Q)

319 Can anyone remember the last mass murder/ shooting rampage that did NOT happen in a "gun free/ safe zone"?

Posted by: lindafell is cruzin' at June 01, 2015 06:21 PM (xVgrA)

320 "Goth Fonzie" is on of the greatest things Ace has ever come up with.

Posted by: trueholygoat at June 01, 2015 06:22 PM (ThMWd)

321 You forgot rape.

Twice.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this sh1t at June 01, 2015 06:20 PM (0HooB)

Save it for Rape Tuesday

Posted by: Rapey McRaper at June 01, 2015 06:22 PM (7YlUk)

322 Has anyone, including Malor, ever posted anything which demonstrates that the TEA Party ever became about SoCon nuttery?

Whateverthefvck that might be in the first place?
Posted by: Burn the Witch

Too many high profile candidates got in the weeds on those issues like Christine O'Donnell and her war against Masturbation, Sharon Angle and her talk about returning to Prohibition, Ken Buck bragged he wanted to outlaw abortion in all rape cases as well, etc. it went on and on. Once it got away from fiscal issues, it was a train wreck.

These were the "pure" Tea Party candidates

Posted by: McAdams at June 01, 2015 06:23 PM (qBmEy)

323 I would have bombed the shit out of Romney, after a little slap and tickle of course.

Posted by: Lindsey Graham at June 01, 2015 06:23 PM (wAQA5)

324 Oh yea, all the college rapes at gun point!!!!11!!!!
Must not forget how campus carry will cause sexual assaults on campuses sky rocket!!!/sarc

Posted by: lindafell is cruzin' at June 01, 2015 06:23 PM (xVgrA)

325 TO KEEP YOU SAFE, CITIZEN...

@cnnbrk
A TSA investigation reveals that airport screeners failed to detect explosives and weapons in almost every test. http://cnn.it/1Jfil4D

Posted by: weft cut-loop at June 01, 2015 06:24 PM (uctT+)

326 The Tea Party committed suicide, with the greedy, corrupt national TP groups pulling the trigger.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at June 01, 2015 06:24 PM (XhSez)

327 ***"These were the "pure" Tea Party candidates.

Posted by: McAdams at June 01, 2015 06:23 PM (qBmEy)"***

According to whom?

But first, point me to the consolidated TEA Party policy source which calls for SoCon domestic policies.

Take your time.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at June 01, 2015 06:26 PM (xSCb6)

328 Anytime someone has the urge to use "myself," they should try "me" in their head first.

Nothing personal, but I'm not trying you.

Posted by: rickb223 Straight, Conservative Clinger at June 01, 2015 06:27 PM (mhTL5)

329 I was governor of Ohio, unlike all these other assholes.

Posted by: John Kasich at June 01, 2015 06:27 PM (wAQA5)

330 "Say hello to president Clinton

Or whoever the Democrat nominee ends up being. Because its clear that the people in charge of the Republican Party are absolutely ruthless and focused in their furious need to crush anyone who is not part of the plan. They will use any means necessary to get their establishment-approved candidate in place. Better to lose than allow someone they don't like to win.
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at June 01, 2015 05:11 PM (39g3+)

this is what scares me worse than anything, we don't just have to fight modern liberals in the Democratic Party we also have to fight the modern liberals running the GOP.

and they will do ANYTHING to keep a wacko bird out of the White House.

Posted by: Shoey at June 01, 2015 06:29 PM (vA94g)

331 There is no way this rabble can rationally govern itself. Anarchy will ensue.
I told you so.
There I said it, and I'm glad.

Posted by: HRH George the III at June 01, 2015 06:29 PM (BTnAK)

332 Does anyone know when the next Gay Pride Day Parade is scheduled for in Washington, DC ????

Posted by: Mary Clogginstien from Brattleboro, VT at June 01, 2015 06:30 PM (lNSdJ)

333 Rand Paul is right, and McCain is a shit weasel, and I hope he is voted out of office in 2016. Of course, I worry that Rand is as big an antisemite as Obama and would be all too cozy with Iran and therefore should be nowhere near the levers of power. He also reverts to Democrat talking points.

McCain did want to arm Syrian Rebels who proved to be Al Qaeda. We know now from the declassified Pentagon document dated August 12, 2012 that our government created ISIS. Obama was lying through his teeth in that debate with Romney when he told Candy to roll the tape.

McCain also took a shit ton of money to fast track the TPP. He's one to talk about taking bribes, since he royally fucked campaign finance, calling it reform, after getting caught up in the Abramoff scandal. I guarantee you he was fine with the IRS going after the tea party in 2012, just like Boehner and McConnell. Bet you Boehner has scandals as bad as Hastert.

Posted by: Tattoo De Plane at June 01, 2015 06:31 PM (nCKKS)

334 327.

So now you're disowning these people?
I see the goalposts keep getting moved?

You don't consider Christsine O'Donnell, Ken Buck, Sharon Angle to be Tea Party? Then who are they? Give me your list of pure Tea Party candidates.

I'm pointing out the most high profile people that ran under the banner of "Tea Party". At the time, no one argued that they were "Tea Party" Republicans. But after they crashed and burned, suddenly they weren't.

The term is dead anyway, you're not going to see people proudly proclaiming they are Tea Party just like Democrats had to change their ideology from Liberal to Progressive because it was tainted.

Posted by: McAdams at June 01, 2015 06:31 PM (qBmEy)

335
>>>We hate the Duggars and are fawning over the Kardassians.

no Duggar sex tape

sex tapes sell, see Kim K, Paris Hilton, Pam Anderson......

Posted by: Yo! at June 01, 2015 06:32 PM (W6iIX)

336 Posted by: McAdams at June 01, 2015 06:31 PM (qBmEy)

Hey Sport, how about you try answering my request first. Then I'd be more than happy to answer yours.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at June 01, 2015 06:32 PM (xSCb6)

337 You know ... as a dude that identifies more Tea Party / Libertarian than Republican ... I really get sick of hearing that all I want is legal pot and open borders. Also pretty friggin' sick of hearing that I'd be CRAZY not to vote GOP in all things, that I'm paranoid and an enemy of the state for opposing the Patriot Act, I'm a nutty isolationist for wanting to pull our troops out of a few foreign deployments, and I'm a noob on all things economic because I don't think all foreign trade deals are always a good deal for American interests in the long term.

So yeah Ace ... I agree. The party needs a divorce. I already left.

Posted by: ScoggDog at June 01, 2015 06:33 PM (fTFPL)

338 Conservative like myself just sounds better, shut up.

Posted by: Ricky Bobby at June 01, 2015 06:33 PM (RJMhd)

339 Jeb needs to lay off the cheeseburgers and Walker should have stayed in school.

Posted by: George Pataki at June 01, 2015 06:34 PM (wAQA5)

340 If there is a divorce, like a sick spouse the dems will burn the place down so no one can have it.

It is almost silly to think it is going to get better with every generation even more leftist and out of touch with reality.

I'm often told we are a rich country and can afford to help people. If we won't fight they won't fight us.

This is not a recipe for a successful economy or country.

Posted by: Free the nipples San Diego State University at June 01, 2015 06:34 PM (wkuqO)

341 Was "Goth Fonzie" a dig at Nick Gillespie?

Posted by: Tattoo De Plane at June 01, 2015 06:34 PM (nCKKS)

342 Also this divorce shit sounds gay.

When the hell did they get married?

Seems to me like they just shacked up together and didn't even have hate sex.

Just remember if you ain't first you're last!

Posted by: Ricky Bobby at June 01, 2015 06:35 PM (RJMhd)

343 I think Christine O'Donnell was paid off by Harry Reid much like Todd Akin was paid off by Claire McCaskill.

Posted by: Tattoo De Plane at June 01, 2015 06:36 PM (nCKKS)

344 336.
What "consolidated Tea Party source" are you talking about Sparky?

High profile "Tea Party Republicans" decided to co opt their SoCon nuttiness into what should have stayed in fiscal matters. Like O'Donnel with masturbation.

I think it's unfortunate, but it happened, and the Tea party should have done a better job fielding candidates that could actually win elections

Posted by: McAdams at June 01, 2015 06:40 PM (qBmEy)

345 Why can't we all just get along?

Posted by: Mitch McConnell at June 01, 2015 06:40 PM (wAQA5)

346 Instead of Texas seceding, we should kick out California. That would be 39 less Democratic representatives in the House, two less Democratic Senators and 55 less electoral votes for Democratic Presidents.

Also the hope that it would serve as a massive illegal alien magnet.
Posted by: Ken at June 01, 2015 05:43 PM (LXJ1e)

I like your way of thinking, but do we really want to share a border with cannibals?

Posted by: jwpaine, otherized for your protection at June 01, 2015 06:41 PM (0bXhD)

347 341 Was "Goth Fonzie" a dig at Nick Gillespie?
Posted by: Tattoo De Plane at June 01, 2015 06:34 PM (nCKKS)

Yeah, that's Ace's nickname for him. At least I think Ace started it.

Posted by: rickl at June 01, 2015 06:42 PM (sdi6R)

348 Well, if you told me you were drowning
I would not lend a hand
I've seen your face before my friend
But I don't know if you know who I am
Well, I was there and I saw what you did
I saw it with my own two eyes
So you can wipe off that grin,I know where you've been
It's all been a pack of lies

That's me to the GOPe.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That at June 01, 2015 06:42 PM (zRby/)

349 213
205 Rick Santelli's famous CNBC rant that should be considered the beginning of the Tea Party was in February 2009.

Posted by: Jinx the Cat at June 01, 2015 05:43 PM (l3vZN)

Yes, but he was only articulating the mass rage that had been building to that point since well before February of '09.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at June 01, 2015 05:46 PM (St6BJ)

********************
Note that Pelosi and Reid had been running the two houses of Congress since January 2007. And that the House GOP attracted enough Democrats to block the first attempt at TARP anyway, and it only passed because fear of Pelosi got discipline in her caucus. But go ahead and blame Bush and ignore the Democrats if you must. It got Obama elected twice, so there's a constituency for that.

Posted by: Caesar North of the Rubicon at June 01, 2015 06:42 PM (t2m1Y)

350 Todd Akin ran as a Tea Party Republican.

He voted against the TARP bailout and made sure that was emphasized over and over. It was a centerpiece of his campaign that we was a true Tea Party Republican.

Once nominated then he got to talk about his real issues, abortion and other SoCon nuttiness

Posted by: McAdams at June 01, 2015 06:43 PM (qBmEy)

351 337 You know ... as a dude that identifies more Tea Party / Libertarian than Republican ... I really get sick of hearing that all I want is legal pot and open borders. Also pretty friggin' sick of hearing that I'd be CRAZY not to vote GOP in all things, that I'm paranoid and an enemy of the state for opposing the Patriot Act, I'm a nutty isolationist for wanting to pull our troops out of a few foreign deployments, and I'm a noob on all things economic because I don't think all foreign trade deals are always a good deal for American interests in the long term.

Posted by: ScoggDog at June 01, 2015 06:33 PM (fTFPL)

Ditto on all points.

Posted by: rickl at June 01, 2015 06:43 PM (sdi6R)

352 ***"What "consolidated Tea Party source" are you talking about Sparky?"***

You tell me, Chief. Does the fact that you're unable to name one indicate that there's not one? Well golly gee then, whatever could that possibly mean??

Posted by: Burn the Witch at June 01, 2015 06:45 PM (xSCb6)

353 "Rather, and this is the important thing, I believe that that open contemptuousness is not merely a defect, but an essential, foundational part of capital-L Libertarianism."

It's an Art Form!

Posted by: ZeroHedger at June 01, 2015 06:46 PM (1Y+hH)

354 I love how nobody ever mentions that Arlen Spectre was the 60th vote for Obamacare. The y have done a good job of putting that down the memory hole.

Posted by: Boone at June 01, 2015 06:46 PM (Igmq5)

355 ***"Once nominated then he got to talk about his real issues, abortion and other SoCon nuttiness

Posted by: McAdams at June 01, 2015 06:43 PM (qBmEy)"***

Right. Those were HIS issues, not the Tea Party's.

Unless you have some evidence to suggest otherwise. Still waiting on that.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at June 01, 2015 06:48 PM (xSCb6)

356 A masterpiece

Posted by: FITP at June 01, 2015 06:50 PM (Q7clO)

357 John McCain

[sentence redacted]

[expletives deleted]

[IP address forwarded to the Secret Service]

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That at June 01, 2015 06:50 PM (zRby/)

358 Boy mcadams sure does have a hard on for Christine odonnel. Too bad she was a product of the Delaware GOP rather than the tea party.

Posted by: Buzzion at June 01, 2015 06:51 PM (z/Ubi)

359 You tell me, Chief. Does the fact that you're unable to name one indicate that there's not one? Well golly gee then, whatever could that possibly mean??

Posted by: Burn the Witch

That everyone has a different idea about what Tea Party means?

That's sort of my point. The SoCons thought "Tea Party" meant strident on social issues when the electorate had no appetite for that.

That's the problem, they hijacked something and tried to make it their own. See Akin for an example.

Posted by: McAdams at June 01, 2015 06:54 PM (qBmEy)

360 ***"Boy mcadams sure does have a hard on for Christine odonnel. Too bad she
was a product of the Delaware GOP rather than the tea party."***

Don't confuse him with facts. He's rolling.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at June 01, 2015 06:54 PM (xSCb6)

361 and Akin too. Boy he sure is firing on all cylinders.

Posted by: Buzzion at June 01, 2015 06:55 PM (z/Ubi)

362 You've seen Bug Bunny cartoons. Remember the one about the baby vultures?

And there's one doofus vulture who can't catch sh!t?

And he's flying along at one point singing

I'm bringing home a baby bumble bee

Won't my mother be so proud of me.

Uh Huh uh huh.

Remember that?

THAT'S how I see McConnell and the entire GOPe.

Stupid, naive hicks who think they're going to out con the big city boys and take home the goodies.

Meanwhile they're taking it in their shorts.

And dragging US along for the ride.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That at June 01, 2015 06:57 PM (zRby/)

363 358 Boy mcadams sure does have a hard on for Christine odonnel. Too bad she was a product of the Delaware GOP rather than the tea party.
Posted by: Buzzion

I'm not allowed to have a hard on for her, remember?

Quit rewriting history, she was the absolutely the Tea Party Princess and you know it. I certainly didn't hear a peep out of the grassroots when she was the nominee, only a lot of chest thumping.

Posted by: McAdams at June 01, 2015 06:57 PM (qBmEy)

364 McAdams also loves only mentioning the 4 candidates that lost. Because, of course, had the GOPe nominee had won they would have won by 35 points. It has to be true. To think otherwise would just be nuttery.

The biggest swing in the history of the house was not orchestrated by the establishment. It was accomplished by the Tea Party. Rewrite it all you want, that won't make it true.

Posted by: RonM822 at June 01, 2015 06:57 PM (m5P5j)

365 ***"That's sort of my point. The SoCons thought "Tea Party" meant strident
on social issues when the electorate had no appetite for that.

Posted by: McAdams at June 01, 2015 06:54 PM (qBmEy)"***

How about you focus on the question then instead of your hard-on for your SoCon strawman?

What the SoCons think of the Tea Party is irrelevant. The point, which you're sidestepping, is what the Tea Party thinks of it.

As such, I'm STILL waiting for you to produce some evidence of your assertions and the longer you take, the more full you seem to be of shit.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at June 01, 2015 06:59 PM (xSCb6)

366

Which pure tea Party candidates won? name some

Is that how it goes? Only the winners get to be called "real" Tea Party. Some loyalty

I hate the Establishment wing also, but the Tea Party became a freak show of 700 Club wannabes.

How many Republicans in the next cycle will campaign as "Tea Party"?

Posted by: McAdams at June 01, 2015 07:01 PM (qBmEy)

367 So 2010 was the first year that O'Donnel had ever run for office right? I mean after all she was a tea party candidate. And definitely wasn't someone that the Delaware GOP was more than happy to have running in other elections in years previous.

Posted by: Buzzion at June 01, 2015 07:04 PM (z/Ubi)

368 365.

Who is the Tea Party? Answer me that.

If someone runs as a Tea Party Republican and Tea Party named groups back them financially, are they not Tea Party?

Who makes that decision? You and you alone?

Posted by: McAdams at June 01, 2015 07:04 PM (qBmEy)

369 I'm still waiting for the list of successful Tea Party candidates

So far I'm only getting a rewriting of history that actually these people weren't Tea Party. Of course this assertion was given the day after they lost horribly in easy win elections.

Posted by: McAdams at June 01, 2015 07:06 PM (qBmEy)

370 Posted by: McAdams at June 01, 2015 07:04 PM (qBmEy)

Still not answering the question huh?

The Tea Party was responsible for flipping the House in '10 and that that was on fiscal grounds. And you name a handful of dubious candidates, while ignoring the successes, who GET THIS campaigned on fiscal policy.

Either answer the easy question I'm asking you, or get your shinebox.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at June 01, 2015 07:09 PM (xSCb6)

371 ***"So far I'm only getting a rewriting of history that actually these
people weren't Tea Party. Of course this assertion was given the day
after they lost horribly in easy win elections."***

No, you're not. I never said they weren't Tea Party. Looks like you're in full strawman asswhooppin' mode now, Tiger.

Sand spare me the easy win election tripe. Forget the huge reminder about 2010 I just gave you and tell me about Romney's win in 2012. That sure was an easy win situation.

(Dollars to donuts you focus on my side comment about Romney instead of the central point you've been ignoring]

Posted by: Burn the Witch at June 01, 2015 07:13 PM (xSCb6)

372 370.

So did they also flip the Senate in 2014 and gave the GOP their biggest majorities in the House?

Remember, the "Tea Party" was shoved out and the leadership made no bones about it.

My point isn't against fiscal conservatives that aligned themselves with the Tea Party, it's that type of conservative label got turned into a completely different creature.

Posted by: McAdams at June 01, 2015 07:13 PM (qBmEy)

373 Quit rewriting history, she was the absolutely the Tea Party Princess and you know it.

I don't remember things that way at all. I remember Mike Castle imploding and the Establishment having the first of many tantrums that their candidate didn't win, with loony accusations of outside money as the reason an entitled loser who spent no effort didn't win the primary.

The TEA party just wanted to back the winning nominee, but the Establishment wanted a loss because it's their way or the highway.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at June 01, 2015 07:14 PM (crTFl)

374 Still waiting on your list of candidates.

BTW, is "Burn the Witch" your homage to Tea Party hero Christine O'Donnell?

Posted by: McAdams at June 01, 2015 07:14 PM (qBmEy)

375 Here is the thing - when I noticed the establishment treat the democrats with the kindness and warmness... and how different that was in regard to how they treated the tea party - I realized which side they were on.

Posted by: reality man at June 01, 2015 07:15 PM (BNEdd)

376 So nice to see mcadams reverting back to his typical establishment shilling troll persona where he just burns straw men like a pyro.

Posted by: Buzzion at June 01, 2015 07:16 PM (z/Ubi)

377 Except I hate the Establishment also. I want McConnell and Boehner gone.

Hell I voted for JD Hayworth against John McCain.

Posted by: McAdams at June 01, 2015 07:17 PM (qBmEy)

378 ***"Remember, the "Tea Party" was shoved out and the leadership made no bones about it.

Posted by: McAdams at June 01, 2015 07:13 PM (qBmEy)"***

No, the TEA Party was shut out of leadership positions by the GOP. They were still elected.

So you're bullshitting your way around now that facts and actual history are rearing their ugly heads.

Got it.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at June 01, 2015 07:19 PM (xSCb6)

379 378.

McConnell openly talked about destroying the Tea Party in the upcoming election.

If you didn't get the memo you weren't paying attention.

Posted by: McAdams at June 01, 2015 07:20 PM (qBmEy)

380 ***"Still waiting on your list of candidates."***

Still waiting on you to answer the original fucking question instead of making stupid remarks about my handle.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at June 01, 2015 07:21 PM (xSCb6)

381 What question? I honestly don't know.

Posted by: McAdams at June 01, 2015 07:23 PM (qBmEy)

382 ***"McConnell openly talked about destroying the Tea Party in the upcoming election.

If you didn't get the memo you weren't paying attention."***

Which has precisely squat to do with the subject at hand. Since you are apparently incapable of paying the slightest attention, that subject is: You're going to prove your assertion that the TEA Party is about SoCon issues.

Still waiting.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at June 01, 2015 07:23 PM (xSCb6)

383 ***"What question? I honestly don't know."***

Oh, so you're either trolling or incapable of operating the scrollbar on your browser.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at June 01, 2015 07:25 PM (xSCb6)

384 382

I never said it was about SoCon issues, I said it got hijacked by SoCon issues because high profile Tea Party Republicans decided to emphasize those issues.

It started out being purely about fiscal issues, now if you asked most Republicans what it means to be "Tea Party" they would not say it's about the deficit or taxes.

Who to blame? Your slate of retards in 2010.

Posted by: McAdams at June 01, 2015 07:27 PM (qBmEy)

385 383 ***"What question? I honestly don't know."***

Oh, so you're either trolling or incapable of operating the scrollbar on your browser.
Posted by: Burn the Witch

It sounds like you don't know either.

Posted by: McAdams at June 01, 2015 07:29 PM (qBmEy)

386 @27: "Have any examples? I don't remember any TP'ers becoming hostile,"

Well, there were the "This time, we came unarmed" placards at some of the rallies.

Posted by: Fa Cube Itches at June 01, 2015 07:29 PM (amQXf)

387 Yeah what a bunch of retard losers we are!

Posted by: Ron Johnson Pat ToomeyMarco Rubio at June 01, 2015 07:30 PM (vANgt)

388 387.

All of them have been disowned by the Tea Party now.

Do you consider them to be Tea Party conservatives?

Ron Johnson just drafted a bill to continue the ObamaCare subsidies if the SC shuts them down.

Posted by: McAdams at June 01, 2015 07:33 PM (qBmEy)

389 ***"It started out being purely about fiscal issues, now if you asked most
Republicans what it means to be "Tea Party" they would not say it's
about the deficit or taxes."***

This is what academics refer to as "bullshit". This is imply what's bouncing around inside your empty cranium, the evidence of which you have routinely failed to provide, despite my failed efforts at keeping you on track.

***"Your slate of retards in 2010."***

Now you're just projecting.

We're done here.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at June 01, 2015 07:37 PM (xSCb6)

390 *beep beep beep beep*

Posted by: Mcadams goal posts at June 01, 2015 07:38 PM (vANgt)

391 ***"Well, there were the "This time, we came unarmed" placards at some of the rallies."***

A few placards at some of the rallies. Well there you have definitive proof.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at June 01, 2015 07:39 PM (xSCb6)

392 You're the one shoveling bullshit with both hands.

Face it, the Tea Party shot itself in the foot with worthless candidates that went off on weird issues.

If you want to argue with yourself on that point, go right ahead. I've got all the proof I need with a string of losses.

I didn't want that to happen, in fact I'm pissed about it.

BTW, be honest, how much money did you send Christine O'Donnell in 2010?

Posted by: McAdams at June 01, 2015 07:42 PM (qBmEy)

393 390.

Is that the sound goalposts make when they move??

Your side is the one that can't make up its mind.

Your list of Tea Party victors are now considered Establishment whores.

The ones that lost, get disowned and the winners also get disowned.

Posted by: McAdams at June 01, 2015 07:46 PM (qBmEy)

394 Mcadams really hates that O'Donnel was a product of the Delaware GOP.

Posted by: Buzzion at June 01, 2015 07:46 PM (z/Ubi)

395 Man he really does hate being made to answer question and gets bitchy tossing out his straw men demanding answers to them instead v

Posted by: Buzzion at June 01, 2015 07:47 PM (z/Ubi)

396 ***"You're the one shoveling bullshit with both hands."***

Says the clown who just said the Tea Party disowned Ron Johnson who just so happened to have recently floated a fiscally liberal policy proposal. Golly gee, I wonder why that happened.

You can't even keep track of your own argument, so it's no wonder you miss someone else's.

Be honest, you suffered a major head wound as a child didn't you?

Troll on, Champ. I won't be back.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at June 01, 2015 07:49 PM (xSCb6)

397 394.

What sort of tin foil hat conspiracy is this and why would I care about the Delaware GOP?

You act like this is some sort of Ace in the hole argument

Posted by: McAdams at June 01, 2015 07:51 PM (qBmEy)

398 396.

Your partner just stated Ron Johnson WAS a Tea Party conservative, so which is it?

Looks like you're leaving with your tail between your legs, couldn't stomach defending the retards like O'Donnell and Sharon Angle any longer I guess.

I don't blame you, I'd leave too if I were you.

Posted by: McAdams at June 01, 2015 07:55 PM (qBmEy)

399 "I don't like capital-L Libertarians because they approach conservatives like myself with actual open contempt with a dismissive and demeaning hostility, and I do not think this is just some accident or character defect."

Ace is apparently unaware of how everyone of how nearly the entirety of his commenters have treated "Paultards" and other libertarians for years. Don't act like you're innocent.

I propose that we seek to build a political coalition that agrees on one and only thing, something that Ace himself has proposed: That this nation does not belong together anymore. We are not one people anymore, and the best thing for everyone is a peaceable divorce.

Posted by: Jason at June 01, 2015 07:59 PM (WfHko)

400 Registered (R) here, signed up in the 80's when I was old enough to vote. Still have by Reagan-Bush button I got in '84. I've had it up to here with the GOPe. They have sold out the Middle Class to the Chamber of Commerce over the open-borders amnesty crap. They're just as profligate spenders as the donkeys. They belittle people like me; I'm more of a Tea Partier than a regular SoCon anymore (we've lost the social issues, boys and girls). Boehner and McConnell just laugh at us, they're working for Obama almost as much as Pelosi does.

I've got a filled out change-of-voter-registration form staring at me as I type this, (R) to no affiliation. I'll probably still vote for the Republican candidate, but about the only protest I can make is the symbolic one of denying them my loyalty. I think this marriage is shot. If Jeb or Rubio is the candidate, I might just vote for Hillary! to hasten the apocalypse. Is there any reason at all not to send that form in? Help me out here, please!

Posted by: Agent-J at June 01, 2015 08:19 PM (9Mtv3)

401 @400 Sorry man. I'm done with them too.

The national GOP is a sham and a lie, designed to make people who aren't globalist post-Americans feel like we have some representation at the cancer on the Potomac.

I'll probably still vote GOP, if I vote- but I'll be damned if I'll ever send them money again, or believe their bullshit. And if Jeb or Rubio is the candidate I won't for them either.

Posted by: Xennady at June 01, 2015 08:44 PM (XgF7y)

402 It's dead, Jim. And McCain needs to go away. I used to think semi-highly of him but now know it was an illusion. He is an ass, and has been for probably 15 years.

Posted by: free tibet with purchase of equal or greater value tibet at June 01, 2015 09:21 PM (lAXNl)

403 The national GOP is a sham and a lie, designed to make people who aren't globalist post-Americans feel like we have some representation at the cancer on the Potomac.

I'll probably still vote GOP, if I vote- but I'll be damned if I'll ever send them money again, or believe their bullshit. And if Jeb or Rubio is the candidate I won't for them either.

Posted by: Xennady at June 01, 2015 08:44 PM (XgF7y)

I've had it with the GOP. The Democrats are my enemy, and they've made clear I am theirs. The GOP RINO establishment begged for my help, then made clear I was their enemy too. I'm done with all of them. Whether I vote depends on who the nominee is.

I'm also done with all their supporters. Call me hateful, I don't care, but a big portion of this country could disappear in a suitcase bomb attack and I could give two shits.

Part of me wants to fight and go down swinging, part of me wants to say fuck it and prepare for the inevitable. Which one wins, I don't know. America has been destroyed, time to tear it down and start over.

Posted by: Blano at June 01, 2015 09:57 PM (VJImz)

404 The only thing worse than the GOP are their supporters who STILL back them after all the shit they have done.

Posted by: NWConservative at June 01, 2015 11:06 PM (uMD6K)

405 the most spectacular words the Ewok in Chief has ever written:

"It's not the Libertarians' fault they treat conservatives with performative contempt; playing the role of Goth Fonzie is how they show they're not with the squares."

Posted by: LuigisIndexFinger at June 01, 2015 11:34 PM (OqeDl)

406 Well, speaking for the libertarian wing of the GOP, remember we hate Christie, Bush and Huckabee for most of the same reasons as you (the conservative wing). We can live with Cruz or Walker, we know Paul is a long shot, but maybe after the primary you could throw us a bone and make him the Veep candidate or something.

I do think maybe the conservative wing doesn't realize how much they've been pulled into the laps of the left-wing on issues like the Patriot Act, which the left opposed at the time only because it was Bush's plan.

There's a great post about the guillotine below. Here's the lesson of the Bush/Obama years: any power you give a Republican President, any well-intended expansion of state power, any precedent set, will be thoroughly abused by the next Democrat admin

Posted by: TallDave at June 02, 2015 01:50 AM (74ZYB)

407 I understand and agree with much of what you are saying. I am Conservative, maybe Libertarian. And I'm done with the Republican Party. Not one penny more. As this party pretty accurately states, the Republican Party has pretty consistently displayed contempt for the Tea Party. But Rand Paul dishes it back, and OH NO!! They are disrespectful. Look at the performance since the Republicans captured the Senate. It has been Democrat victory one after another. Look at the election on Mississippi. It is a shame.
And now, today, with Rand Paul. It is all his fault. WTF!!! If I am not mistaken, there were a bunch of Senators who voted with him. If I am not mistaken, those Senators voted that way because they are under extreme pressure by their voters. This is called Democracy (as opposed to the democrat party). There is a huge part of the American population who is saying 'Enough!' Rand Paul represents them. The Republican Party hates them, as much as his excellency, King Obama. I see no difference.
I am against the mass collection of phone data, for one reason, a reason that our Founding Fathers would quickly recognize. I Do Not Trust King Obama. You want my phone records, have a reason (other than I disagree politically) and get a warrant, for me, not everyone. That is what Rand Paul said. He is right.

Posted by: Dave F at June 02, 2015 06:35 AM (jbvaB)

408 Ace sez:

"I thought the Tea Partiers were getting excessively hostile and mean in their criticisms. But then the Establishment lived down to its reputation. Rather than taking the long and sober view of things -- that a political coalition depended on at least some reserve of intraparty amity -- they showed their full contempt of the Tea Party and essentially declared them enemies."

Let me run that through my translator.

*BEEP BEEP boop boop BEEP *

"When my side displayed bad behavior, I was uncomfortable. But then the other side, instead of being better people, did the same thing. And now THEY MUST BE DESTROYED OMG!!!!!1!!!111!!!!"

Posted by: Demosthenes at June 02, 2015 08:31 AM (kNw9i)

409 I already signed the divorce papers years ago.

407 - Correct, also it gets zero mention but in that isis comment Paul was actually responding to that little sh1tbag Graham who was accusing people like Paul for creating isis because they didn't want to get involved whole hog in Syria and didn't think it was a good idea to ship arms into there thinking they could or would be turn against us or our allies.... Which of course is exactly what happened. It's funny to watch people lambast Paul for highlighting that and on the NSA front just tripping over themselves to make fools of themselves on tv. It's very enlightening though as it's provided clarity on just how useless certain other members of the GOP and chattering class are.

Posted by: ThisBeingMilt at June 02, 2015 03:27 PM (MbrzC)

410 The opposite of social conservative is liberal.

Posted by: Chris Balsz at June 02, 2015 05:48 PM (8rRE+)

411 Umm, the cognitive dissonance with this one, Ace, is almost breathtaking. Are you critiquing his comments or are you criticizing them? In your examples where is he wrong in his assessments? I'm not seeing where his statements are incorrect. You may not like them, they may feel like criticism or an ad hominem attack, but aren't they instead more in line with critique in that they are about specific issues?

The hawks of our side not only wanted to bomb Assad they wanted to send in ground troops. They most certainly did indiscriminately give guns during their combined FastFurious Libya gun running arms in cahoots with this administration into Syria in which they did snatch up our weapons. You, Ace, were lambasting McCain Graham for it yourself, as were we all. McCain stood there and took photo-ops with known anti-rebels and we laughed at him! And he armed them to boot! We criticized McCain for being in line with Obama's foreign policies so where is Paul wrong there? Has that changed? No. You know it hasn't.

Is everyone who is now criticizing Paul memory really so short? McCain's hands are the dirtiest. You can damn well guarantee that none of that shit went down without his, Graham's, and several others enabling and full throated support. And I'll bet you a years salary McCain knew damn good and well what was going on with our Libyan embassy too. Those rocket propelled grenade launchers didn't come from Wal-Mart they used to bomb that embassy. You can thank McCain and Graham for that. McCain is a liar of the first water especially if it saves his own ass. The hawks of our side not only deserve critiquing, they deserve criticism. And you also know that if we did get attacked McCain and Graham would be the first in line to blame anyone and everyone but themselves.

Posted by: halodoc at June 02, 2015 10:27 PM (Fzbp3)

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