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Supreme Court to Consider Whether the Constitution Requires 'One Person, One Vote' or 'One Voter, One Vote'
Yesterday, the Supreme Court agreed to resolve a redistricting question that has been simmering for over fifty years: does the equal protection clause require that state voter districts be apportioned according to the number of residents or the number of eligible voters? States have, generally, been allowed to decide for themselves whether to use the total state population or some more restrictive population—say, one that excludes temporary residents and aliens—when drawing districts.
But this question has profound implications for states with large populations of residents who are ineligible to vote like, for example, the state of Texas, where this case originates. Counting residents ineligible to vote for the purposes of apportioning districts tends to give more weight to votes in districts with large numbers of such residents. The argument in this case is that this inequality of voting power violates the equal protection clause. It would be an unusual constitutional standard that allowed votes in some states to be diluted at the whim of the state legislature or (perhaps worse) independent redistricting commissions. This quickly becomes a political question. Residents not eligible to vote—like aliens and felons in many states—just happen to be concentrated in urban districts, which also tend to be Democratic districts. Shifting voting power from such urban minority districts to rural, generally older white districts will launch a hundred screechy tirades on the internet, but this lawsuit finds support in decades of progressive jurisprudence. The case law implementing the Voting Rights Act has required using population of eligible voters, not population of residents, as the baseline when drawing minority districts. The petitioners in this case want the Supreme Court to find the same principle is required by the equal protection clause. One thing that the Supreme Court justices will no doubt want to know: how accurate is the states' count of eligible voters? The census gives a pretty good idea of how many residents live in a particular area, but it was not designed to give a precise count of eligible voters. If the high court decides that the equal protection clause requires 'one voter, one vote' districting, how accurate must the count of eligible voters be? Also, this is a state redistricting case, but it is not hard to see how the principle could be extended to congressional redistricting, which would cause some big changes in the House for states like Texas, Florida, New Mexico, Arizona, and (gulp) California.Comments
(Jump to bottom of comments)1
1st?
Posted by: Weasel at May 27, 2015 09:29 AM (6xtq3)
2
Thanks, Gabe.
Posted by: artisanal 'ette at May 27, 2015 09:31 AM (zqrZE)
3
It would be very interesting if there was a true count of how many illegals are in this country.
Posted by: HH at May 27, 2015 09:31 AM (Ce4DF)
4
"....how accurate is the states' count of eligible voters?"
Why should the court care? The question before the court seems simple, and doesn't require real-world input. It's a straight line interpretation of the constitution.
Why confound the question?
Why should the court care? The question before the court seems simple, and doesn't require real-world input. It's a straight line interpretation of the constitution.
Why confound the question?
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at May 27, 2015 09:31 AM (Zu3d9)
5
The census gives a pretty good idea of how many residents live in a particular area, but it was not designed to give a precise count of eligible voters.
I laugh at this.
I can't imagine the census as being accurate at all.
I laugh at this.
I can't imagine the census as being accurate at all.
Posted by: artisanal 'ette at May 27, 2015 09:33 AM (zqrZE)
6
I'm pasting this from a comment that I made to a clueless reporter last night.
The controlling case, Reynolds v Sims, summarizes their first holding like this:
"1. The right of suffrage is denied by debasement or dilution of a citizen's vote in a state or federal election. Pp. 554-555."
The court addresses citizens, not just simple population, and counting non-citizens for apportionment is certainly "debasement or dilution of a citizen's vote." To hold true to the plain meaning of Reynolds as well as the Equal Protection Clause, states should not include non-citizens for apportionment purposes.
It's interesting how Reynolds uses the term "citizen" throughout the case and states that their vote cannot be diluted. The right of representation ultimately belongs to the citizen, not to those prohibited from voting, like illegals. For example:
"And the right of suffrage can be denied by a debasement or dilution of the weight of a citizen's vote just as effectively as by wholly prohibiting the free exercise of the franchise."
"Undeniably the Constitution of the United States protects the right of all qualified citizens to vote, in state as well as in federal elections. A consistent line of decisions by this Court in cases involving attempts to deny or restrict the right of suffrage has made this indelibly clear."
"Full and effective participation by all citizens in state government requires, therefore, that each citizen have an equally effective voice in the election of members of his state legislature."
"To the extent that a citizen's right to vote is debased, he is that much less a citizen."
"And, if a State should provide that the votes of citizens in one part of the State should be given two times, or five times, or 10 times the weight of votes of citizens in another part of the State, it could hardly be contended that the right to vote of those residing in the disfavored areas had not been effectively diluted."
The controlling case, Reynolds v Sims, summarizes their first holding like this:
"1. The right of suffrage is denied by debasement or dilution of a citizen's vote in a state or federal election. Pp. 554-555."
The court addresses citizens, not just simple population, and counting non-citizens for apportionment is certainly "debasement or dilution of a citizen's vote." To hold true to the plain meaning of Reynolds as well as the Equal Protection Clause, states should not include non-citizens for apportionment purposes.
It's interesting how Reynolds uses the term "citizen" throughout the case and states that their vote cannot be diluted. The right of representation ultimately belongs to the citizen, not to those prohibited from voting, like illegals. For example:
"And the right of suffrage can be denied by a debasement or dilution of the weight of a citizen's vote just as effectively as by wholly prohibiting the free exercise of the franchise."
"Undeniably the Constitution of the United States protects the right of all qualified citizens to vote, in state as well as in federal elections. A consistent line of decisions by this Court in cases involving attempts to deny or restrict the right of suffrage has made this indelibly clear."
"Full and effective participation by all citizens in state government requires, therefore, that each citizen have an equally effective voice in the election of members of his state legislature."
"To the extent that a citizen's right to vote is debased, he is that much less a citizen."
"And, if a State should provide that the votes of citizens in one part of the State should be given two times, or five times, or 10 times the weight of votes of citizens in another part of the State, it could hardly be contended that the right to vote of those residing in the disfavored areas had not been effectively diluted."
Posted by: Michael the Hobbit at May 27, 2015 09:37 AM (0RdKg)
7
What about pets?
The left's fellow traveling PETA types want full rights for animals...
can we count skeeters in Alaska??
Goddamned insane asylum civics.
The left's fellow traveling PETA types want full rights for animals...
can we count skeeters in Alaska??
Goddamned insane asylum civics.
Posted by: Sven S Blade a.k.a. El Assassin@sven10077 at May 27, 2015 09:37 AM (/4AZU)
8
The new case, Evenwel v. Abbott, No. 14-940, is a challenge to voting districts for the Texas Senate brought by two voters, Sue Evenwel and Edward Pfenninger.
They are represented by the Project on Fair Representation, the small conservative advocacy group that has mounted earlier challenges to affirmative action and to a central part of the Voting Rights Act.
www.projectonfairrepresentation.org/case/evenwel-v-abbott/
So, defaulting to supporting their side.
The new case, Evenwel v. Abbott, No. 14-940, is a challenge to voting districts for the Texas Senate brought by two voters, Sue Evenwel and Edward Pfenninger.
They are represented by the Project on Fair Representation, the small conservative advocacy group that has mounted earlier challenges to affirmative action and to a central part of the Voting Rights Act.
www.projectonfairrepresentation.org/case/evenwel-v-abbott/
So, defaulting to supporting their side.
Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at May 27, 2015 09:37 AM (kdS6q)
9
And? So Gabe, how do you expect this to go? Not trying to be pushy, but can you who knows, cut to the chase?
Posted by: Nevergiveup at May 27, 2015 09:38 AM (rDqRv)
10
This will legalize our policy of GOTV for "voters" who currently reside in cemeteries
Posted by: Teh Donks at May 27, 2015 09:39 AM (mhetq)
11
It's cute they're assuming that illegals don't vote.
They do.
And won't amnesty give them legal voting privileges ASAP?
They do.
And won't amnesty give them legal voting privileges ASAP?
Posted by: Lizzy at May 27, 2015 09:39 AM (t0dO8)
12
I would love to hear the howls from the left if the states were put in the position of having to get an accurate count of their eligible voters. They might even have to *gasp* scrub the voter registration rolls!
Posted by: RedMindBlueState at May 27, 2015 09:40 AM (h4vJk)
13
It seems to me it should count 'citizens' not voters. Voting was much more restricted when the country started and they still counted all citizens, right? So I don't think eliminating felons and so forth makes sense.
Eliminating non citizens maybe. I don't know what the precedent is on that.
Eliminating non citizens maybe. I don't know what the precedent is on that.
Posted by: Lea at May 27, 2015 09:40 AM (lIU4e)
14
All of this is a step along the path of permitting non citizens who reside in the US the right to vote.
Posted by: Lysandar Bellingrade at May 27, 2015 09:40 AM (HQijX)
15
Remember Buenos Aires, citizen !
Posted by: I'm not Robert Heinlein or even an actor playing Robert Heinlein at May 27, 2015 09:40 AM (e8kgV)
16
And won't amnesty give them legal voting privileges ASAP?
Posted by: Lizzy at May 27, 2015 09:39 AM (t0dO
No
Posted by: Lizzy at May 27, 2015 09:39 AM (t0dO
No
Posted by: Nevergiveup at May 27, 2015 09:41 AM (rDqRv)
17
Posted by: Nevergiveup at May 27, 2015 09:38 AM (rDqRv)
Gabe doesn't read the comments...he's the anti-Breitbart.
Gabe doesn't read the comments...he's the anti-Breitbart.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at May 27, 2015 09:41 AM (Zu3d9)
18
Let's not forget the Graveyard Votes from most Democrat districts.
Posted by: Paladin at May 27, 2015 09:41 AM (LTquJ)
19
All of this is a step along the path of permitting non citizens who reside in the US the right to vote.
Posted by: Lysandar Bellingrade at May 27, 2015 09:40 AM (HQijX)
Unless they change the Constitution, that would only be in certain local elections where those voting entities have voted to allow it.
Posted by: Lysandar Bellingrade at May 27, 2015 09:40 AM (HQijX)
Unless they change the Constitution, that would only be in certain local elections where those voting entities have voted to allow it.
Posted by: Nevergiveup at May 27, 2015 09:42 AM (rDqRv)
20
This may affect areas where there are a lot of prisons, too. I'm pretty sure that the Census Bureau counts an inmate at a prison as a resident of the state, county, etc., where he takes up involuntary residence.
Posted by: FireHorse at May 27, 2015 09:42 AM (r+LOT)
21
Gabe doesn't read the comments...he's the anti-Breitbart.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at May 27, 2015 09:41 AM (Zu3d9)
Kinda like how I didn't read the text books in Dental School?
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at May 27, 2015 09:41 AM (Zu3d9)
Kinda like how I didn't read the text books in Dental School?
Posted by: Nevergiveup at May 27, 2015 09:43 AM (rDqRv)
22
California would do like the US Census and use 'scientific estimates' just to keep their numbers inflated like a football.
Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at May 27, 2015 09:43 AM (AylSc)
23
The fact that this is even a question is troubling enough, but the result, if these idiots on the court decide having your fanny in the state is enough to be counted, we're done.
Completely and utterly done.
How can the law even begin to consider someone here ILLEGALLY is entitled to legal protection? The English language should be able to answer that question all by itself, but I guess we need a bunch of lawyers to do it instead.
Completely and utterly done.
How can the law even begin to consider someone here ILLEGALLY is entitled to legal protection? The English language should be able to answer that question all by itself, but I guess we need a bunch of lawyers to do it instead.
Posted by: BurtTC at May 27, 2015 09:43 AM (TOk1P)
Posted by: Lauren at May 27, 2015 09:43 AM (MYCIw)
25
They count residents and not citizens the black vote will very shortly become irrelevant in urban areas, supplanted by hispanics
Posted by: Thunderb at May 27, 2015 09:44 AM (zOTsN)
26
Perhaps the court will compromise, and find that illegals should be counted as three-fifths of a voter.
Perhaps the court will compromise, and find that illegals should be counted as three-fifths of a voter.
Posted by: Brown Line at May 27, 2015 09:44 AM (zcbZo)
27
>>No
Posted by: Nevergiveup
OK, that's good news.
The problem we now have here in CO is that they've gone to 100% mail in ballots. Factor in that approx. 20% of the people move in a given year, that's a lot of ballots being misdirected and available for foul play. In fact, in the 2014 they caught activists who were instructing people to mail in whatever ballots they could get their hands on - if the people in the apt. next to yours moved but the ballot arrived, go for it!!
Posted by: Nevergiveup
OK, that's good news.
The problem we now have here in CO is that they've gone to 100% mail in ballots. Factor in that approx. 20% of the people move in a given year, that's a lot of ballots being misdirected and available for foul play. In fact, in the 2014 they caught activists who were instructing people to mail in whatever ballots they could get their hands on - if the people in the apt. next to yours moved but the ballot arrived, go for it!!
Posted by: Lizzy at May 27, 2015 09:44 AM (t0dO8)
Posted by: LoneStarHeeb at May 27, 2015 09:45 AM (BZAd3)
29
25 Posted by: Thunderb at May 27, 2015 09:44 AM (zOTsN)
Correct, speeding up the destruction of the Donk machine as currently rendered.
Democrats gave a LOT of taxpayer money to the COMMUNI-TAY via civil service jobs and PEUs....
those will shift to 30 million guys named Juan.
Correct, speeding up the destruction of the Donk machine as currently rendered.
Democrats gave a LOT of taxpayer money to the COMMUNI-TAY via civil service jobs and PEUs....
those will shift to 30 million guys named Juan.
Posted by: Sven S Blade a.k.a. El Assassin@sven10077 at May 27, 2015 09:45 AM (/4AZU)
30
OK, that's good news.
The problem we now have here in CO is that they've gone to 100% mail in ballots. Factor in that approx. 20% of the people move in a given year, that's a lot of ballots being misdirected and available for foul play. In fact, in the 2014 they caught activists who were instructing people to mail in whatever ballots they could get their hands on - if the people in the apt. next to yours moved but the ballot arrived, go for it!!
Posted by: Lizzy at May 27, 2015 09:44 AM (t0dO
I didn't say anything about cheating and illegal stuff, hell yeah that will continue and even increase. The problem is we - Conservatives- have to learn to cheat also. I mean we al gotta play by the same set of rules
The problem we now have here in CO is that they've gone to 100% mail in ballots. Factor in that approx. 20% of the people move in a given year, that's a lot of ballots being misdirected and available for foul play. In fact, in the 2014 they caught activists who were instructing people to mail in whatever ballots they could get their hands on - if the people in the apt. next to yours moved but the ballot arrived, go for it!!
Posted by: Lizzy at May 27, 2015 09:44 AM (t0dO
I didn't say anything about cheating and illegal stuff, hell yeah that will continue and even increase. The problem is we - Conservatives- have to learn to cheat also. I mean we al gotta play by the same set of rules
Posted by: Nevergiveup at May 27, 2015 09:46 AM (rDqRv)
31
Kinda like how I didn't read the text books in Dental School?
Posted by: Nevergiveup at May 27, 2015 09:43 AM (rDqRv)
Hopefully you at least read the part about washing your hands after using the restroom?
Posted by: Nevergiveup at May 27, 2015 09:43 AM (rDqRv)
Hopefully you at least read the part about washing your hands after using the restroom?
Posted by: BurtTC at May 27, 2015 09:47 AM (TOk1P)
32
There are only around 2 million illegals in the country - or so I'm told.
And 1 in 3 of them are gay - or so I'm told.
Settled science.
And 1 in 3 of them are gay - or so I'm told.
Settled science.
Posted by: RWC - Team BOHICA at May 27, 2015 09:47 AM (fWAjv)
33
22 Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at May 27, 2015 09:43 AM (AylSc)
Yup, perversely we can't even say the census was accurate b/c it is no longer a head count.
The left is working hard to destroy the concept of genuine representative government.
You don't have a hard head count you have gamed apportioning.
Now go try to get any kind of sane reply from a 19 year old on what I just typed.
Yup, perversely we can't even say the census was accurate b/c it is no longer a head count.
The left is working hard to destroy the concept of genuine representative government.
You don't have a hard head count you have gamed apportioning.
Now go try to get any kind of sane reply from a 19 year old on what I just typed.
Posted by: Sven S Blade a.k.a. El Assassin@sven10077 at May 27, 2015 09:47 AM (/4AZU)
34
Couldn't this also affect the number of Representatives a State has? I mean if it passes and runs to its logical conclusion. State populations would also be based on eligible voters and not total residents in determining the number of House Seats the State gets right?
Or am I missing something simple here?
Or am I missing something simple here?
Posted by: The Great White Scotsman at May 27, 2015 09:48 AM (iONHu)
35
17 Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at May 27, 2015 09:41 AM (Zu3d9)
silence silence silence, silence.....silence.
silence silence silence, silence.....silence.
Posted by: Sven S Blade a.k.a. El Assassin@sven10077 at May 27, 2015 09:48 AM (/4AZU)
36
The problem is one created by the Democrats in the first place. Illegals used to not be counted by the census and Democrats in CA pushed to have them counted for the purposes of welfare and government services allocations to the States among other things like "number of allocated representatives" for the House.
So as usual the government created its own problem then wants to solve it with another problem. The simple solution is to quit counting illegals as residents of a State but that will never happen even if the Supremes were to order it.
As for the count of eligible voters the compromise the RNCe made with the Demoncraps was that if they permitted motor voter then also the voter roles would have to be purged every four years to eliminate ineligible voters. As usual the liberals got what they wanted and the purges never take place in any blue district. And any time they take place in a Red State per the law race baiting groups like the NAACP and the EEOC challenge the purge as having disparate impact.
So the best we could hope for here is SCOTUS would rule that the count should only include eligible voters as determined by the 4 year review called for by LAW.
My prediction; it will never happen.
So as usual the government created its own problem then wants to solve it with another problem. The simple solution is to quit counting illegals as residents of a State but that will never happen even if the Supremes were to order it.
As for the count of eligible voters the compromise the RNCe made with the Demoncraps was that if they permitted motor voter then also the voter roles would have to be purged every four years to eliminate ineligible voters. As usual the liberals got what they wanted and the purges never take place in any blue district. And any time they take place in a Red State per the law race baiting groups like the NAACP and the EEOC challenge the purge as having disparate impact.
So the best we could hope for here is SCOTUS would rule that the count should only include eligible voters as determined by the 4 year review called for by LAW.
My prediction; it will never happen.
Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at May 27, 2015 09:48 AM (GpgJl)
37
Hopefully you at least read the part about washing your hands after using the restroom?
Posted by: BurtTC at May 27, 2015 09:47 AM (TOk1P)
Shirley you jest?
Posted by: BurtTC at May 27, 2015 09:47 AM (TOk1P)
Shirley you jest?
Posted by: Nevergiveup at May 27, 2015 09:48 AM (rDqRv)
38
>>There are only around 2 million illegals in the country - or so I'm told.
Gee, thought it was 10-11 million, for like, the last 20-30 years. Funny how the number the MSM and Dems quote never changes, huh?
Gee, thought it was 10-11 million, for like, the last 20-30 years. Funny how the number the MSM and Dems quote never changes, huh?
Posted by: Lizzy at May 27, 2015 09:48 AM (t0dO8)
39
Up here in the Adirondacks, we have the same dilemma.
We have state prisons like Dannemora, and we apportion legislative districts based on population, including inmates who can't vote.
We also have college students who live here on census day (for which we get credit), but vote on Long Island and New Jersey at their parents house.
We'll be tracking this case.
We have state prisons like Dannemora, and we apportion legislative districts based on population, including inmates who can't vote.
We also have college students who live here on census day (for which we get credit), but vote on Long Island and New Jersey at their parents house.
We'll be tracking this case.
Posted by: Adirondack Patriot at May 27, 2015 09:48 AM (iAUf+)
40
Counting "eligible voters?"
Duh. Use the count of registered voters.
If someone doesn't want to register, forget 'em.
Duh. Use the count of registered voters.
If someone doesn't want to register, forget 'em.
Posted by: Grampa Jimbo at May 27, 2015 09:49 AM (V70Uh)
41
5 I can't imagine the census as being accurate at all.
Posted by: artisanal 'ette at May 27, 2015 09:33 AM (zqrZE)
The census current;y says there are 11 million illegals in the country. More accurate estimates say 30M+.
Posted by: artisanal 'ette at May 27, 2015 09:33 AM (zqrZE)
The census current;y says there are 11 million illegals in the country. More accurate estimates say 30M+.
Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at May 27, 2015 09:49 AM (GpgJl)
42
Gabe doesn't read the comments...he's the anti-Breitbart.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at May 27, 2015 09:41 AM (Zu3d9)
Wonder bother posting then?
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at May 27, 2015 09:41 AM (Zu3d9)
Wonder bother posting then?
Posted by: Tami at May 27, 2015 09:50 AM (v0/PR)
43
Yup, perversely we can't even say the census was accurate b/c it is no longer a head count.
Wait, what? Did I miss something?
Wait, what? Did I miss something?
Posted by: Lea at May 27, 2015 09:50 AM (lIU4e)
44
I'm on record as wanting to revoke the franchise from a good 52% of the idiots who are currently allowed to vote, so my stance is eligible voters only.
But, pace Vic, that will never happen.
But, pace Vic, that will never happen.
Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at May 27, 2015 09:50 AM (zF6Iw)
45
The entire VRA should be abolished.
Posted by: Lauren
[2006] President Bush on Thursday signed legislation extending for 25 years the Voting Rights Act. "Congress has reaffirmed its belief that all men are created equal," he declared.
The Republican controlled Congress, eager to improve its standing with minorities ahead of the November elections, pushed the bill through. The bill passed the Senate by a vote of 98-0 and the House 390-33.
Bush signed the bill amid fanfare and before an South Lawn audience that included members of Congress, civil rights leaders and family members of civil rights leaders of the recent past.
You're welcome.
Posted by: The Republicans
The entire VRA should be abolished.
Posted by: Lauren
[2006] President Bush on Thursday signed legislation extending for 25 years the Voting Rights Act. "Congress has reaffirmed its belief that all men are created equal," he declared.
The Republican controlled Congress, eager to improve its standing with minorities ahead of the November elections, pushed the bill through. The bill passed the Senate by a vote of 98-0 and the House 390-33.
Bush signed the bill amid fanfare and before an South Lawn audience that included members of Congress, civil rights leaders and family members of civil rights leaders of the recent past.
You're welcome.
Posted by: The Republicans
Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at May 27, 2015 09:51 AM (kdS6q)
46
Oh and the number of eligible voters is easily determined by the count of "registered voters" after the 4 year purrge and by requiring a birth certificate or naturalization papers to show you are a legal citizen before registering.
But again, the race baiters will challenge that.
But again, the race baiters will challenge that.
Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at May 27, 2015 09:51 AM (GpgJl)
47
42 Posted by: Tami at May 27, 2015 09:50 AM (v0/PR)
It'd seem to be to me a LOT like singing in the shower next to a 747...
yes you are making sound but can anyone hear it?
I try to have the self-control to skip 'em...
we should probably all sit out a thread in total to make the point.
It'd seem to be to me a LOT like singing in the shower next to a 747...
yes you are making sound but can anyone hear it?
I try to have the self-control to skip 'em...
we should probably all sit out a thread in total to make the point.
Posted by: Sven S Blade a.k.a. El Assassin@sven10077 at May 27, 2015 09:51 AM (/4AZU)
48
Wonder bother posting then?
Posted by: Tami at May 27, 2015 09:50 AM (v0/PR)
Good grief I murder that!Wonder why he bothers posting then....
Need moar coffee....
Posted by: Tami at May 27, 2015 09:50 AM (v0/PR)
Good grief I murder that!Wonder why he bothers posting then....
Need moar coffee....
Posted by: Tami at May 27, 2015 09:52 AM (v0/PR)
49
One legal citizen = One "vote" in the districting of persons.
Citizenship is supposed to mean something.
We are talking about the representation of people by elected officials who got the job via legal citizens (theoretically) in a voting booth. Their scope of representation is directly answerable to those persons and those alone. The only possible tweak here is that legal minors should also count even though they cannot enter the booth until eighteen.
Non-citizens do not get a say in the matter.
Citizenship is supposed to mean something.
We are talking about the representation of people by elected officials who got the job via legal citizens (theoretically) in a voting booth. Their scope of representation is directly answerable to those persons and those alone. The only possible tweak here is that legal minors should also count even though they cannot enter the booth until eighteen.
Non-citizens do not get a say in the matter.
Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at May 27, 2015 09:52 AM (1CroS)
50
I'm on record as wanting to revoke the franchise
from a good 52% of the idiots who are currently allowed to vote, so my
stance is eligible voters only.
But, pace Vic, that will never happen.
Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at May 27, 2015 09:50 AM (zF6Iw)
I would like to see the laws allowing absentee voting (without a valid reason), and motor voter registration struck... if we're wishcasting.
from a good 52% of the idiots who are currently allowed to vote, so my
stance is eligible voters only.
But, pace Vic, that will never happen.
Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at May 27, 2015 09:50 AM (zF6Iw)
I would like to see the laws allowing absentee voting (without a valid reason), and motor voter registration struck... if we're wishcasting.
Posted by: BurtTC at May 27, 2015 09:53 AM (TOk1P)
51
Dam in Conroe leaking. They are concerned it will fail and release a 20 ft wall of water
Posted by: Thunderb at May 27, 2015 09:54 AM (zOTsN)
52
43 Posted by: Lea at May 27, 2015 09:50 AM (lIU4e)
http://content.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1879667,00.html
The White House favors sampling to "count the homeless"(whom we never hear of on the TV under donks but I digress)
This controversy started back in 1970 under Nixon to a degree.
http://content.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1879667,00.html
The White House favors sampling to "count the homeless"(whom we never hear of on the TV under donks but I digress)
This controversy started back in 1970 under Nixon to a degree.
Posted by: Sven S Blade a.k.a. El Assassin@sven10077 at May 27, 2015 09:54 AM (/4AZU)
53
California would do like the US Census and use 'scientific estimates' just to keep their numbers inflated like a football.
Put Tom Brady in charge.
Put Tom Brady in charge.
Posted by: rickb223 at May 27, 2015 09:54 AM (IlQaj)
54
Dam in Conroe leaking. They are concerned it will fail and release a 20 ft wall of water
Feel for you. We have one in N Texas the same way.
Feel for you. We have one in N Texas the same way.
Posted by: rickb223 at May 27, 2015 09:56 AM (IlQaj)
55
>>Duh. Use the count of registered voters.
If someone doesn't want to register, forget 'em.
Voter rolls are a mess - people who have moved or died are still registered, you have people who own two homes or college students registered in several states, etc.
This is what True the Vote was founded to fix - cleaning the voter rolls. And they got the worst of the IRS/federal agency harassment of all the Tea Party type groups.
Coincidence?
Yeah, I don't think so.
If someone doesn't want to register, forget 'em.
Voter rolls are a mess - people who have moved or died are still registered, you have people who own two homes or college students registered in several states, etc.
This is what True the Vote was founded to fix - cleaning the voter rolls. And they got the worst of the IRS/federal agency harassment of all the Tea Party type groups.
Coincidence?
Yeah, I don't think so.
Posted by: Lizzy at May 27, 2015 09:57 AM (t0dO8)
56
Any one want to discus why Obama moved the census bureau under White House's direct control.
Posted by: Jean at May 27, 2015 09:57 AM (ztOda)
57
One other thought that might be quite interesting.
What if districting was made in proportion to the vote? Census-taking can be quite error-prone. How's about saying, "You don't count toward the political process unless you vote." Now we know actual vote counting can be verified and is about as close as we will get to tracking countable citizens. Not perfect but the best we'll get.
I imagine that might get a few more people into the voting booth because, in this case, your vote does matter no matter who wins an election.
Just an interesting concept to contemplate.
What if districting was made in proportion to the vote? Census-taking can be quite error-prone. How's about saying, "You don't count toward the political process unless you vote." Now we know actual vote counting can be verified and is about as close as we will get to tracking countable citizens. Not perfect but the best we'll get.
I imagine that might get a few more people into the voting booth because, in this case, your vote does matter no matter who wins an election.
Just an interesting concept to contemplate.
Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at May 27, 2015 09:58 AM (1CroS)
Posted by: Lauren at May 27, 2015 10:01 AM (MYCIw)
59
The "temporary resident" (aka: college kids) things also comes into play with this, I assume.
I cannot comprehend why, in relation to apportionment, voting, and the rest, anyone would consider that illegals and temporary residents count.
I cannot comprehend why, in relation to apportionment, voting, and the rest, anyone would consider that illegals and temporary residents count.
Posted by: Damiano at May 27, 2015 10:01 AM (XItbt)
60
56 Posted by: Jean at May 27, 2015 09:57 AM (ztOda)
for the same reason he is using targeted settling of the AMIGO Grande! shocktroops...
Ogabe is not as dumb as I'd like frankly and the Bill of Rights is doomed b/c he is laying the groundwork for Donks to have a 70% legislative lock w/an Imperial Presidency....
and the GOP is aiding and abetting.
for the same reason he is using targeted settling of the AMIGO Grande! shocktroops...
Ogabe is not as dumb as I'd like frankly and the Bill of Rights is doomed b/c he is laying the groundwork for Donks to have a 70% legislative lock w/an Imperial Presidency....
and the GOP is aiding and abetting.
Posted by: Sven S Blade a.k.a. El Assassin@sven10077 at May 27, 2015 10:01 AM (/4AZU)
61
I remember in Burkett's book Stolen Valor talk about the number of homeless in the US. The estimate back then it was THREE million was false; the activist who put up the number did so because the media badgered him, he later recanted and then late committed suicide. IIRC the official total of homeless was less than 400,000 nationwide in the book.
Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at May 27, 2015 10:03 AM (AylSc)
62
I guess the right answer is "one ghey person, 2 votes".
Gheys are so fabulous that their vote should count twice. Because equality!1!!11!11!1!!
Isn't it the muslims where a woman's testimony is worth half the one of a man and non-mulsims are worth half of a muslim?
If muslims do it, why not the gheys
Gheys are so fabulous that their vote should count twice. Because equality!1!!11!11!1!!
Isn't it the muslims where a woman's testimony is worth half the one of a man and non-mulsims are worth half of a muslim?
If muslims do it, why not the gheys
Posted by: fromabroad at May 27, 2015 10:05 AM (PjqV5)
63
Fucking Romney.
Posted by: Grump928(c) at May 27, 2015 10:05 AM (evdj2)
64
We have state prisons like Dannemora, ...
Posted by: Adirondack Patriot at May 27, 2015 09:48 AM
________
Funny story ...
My wife was on the local (Saranac Lake) church council, and at one meeting a couple people from Synod (Vermont) attended a meeting. They brought Census maps and suggested we reach out to the minority communities in an effort to gain new members.
As an Adirondacker, you must know what the response was. "Um, what minority communities?" The lady pointed out on the map: "Here" pointing to Ray Brook "and here" where Camp Gabriels was at the time.
"Yeah. Those are prisons."
Posted by: Adirondack Patriot at May 27, 2015 09:48 AM
________
Funny story ...
My wife was on the local (Saranac Lake) church council, and at one meeting a couple people from Synod (Vermont) attended a meeting. They brought Census maps and suggested we reach out to the minority communities in an effort to gain new members.
As an Adirondacker, you must know what the response was. "Um, what minority communities?" The lady pointed out on the map: "Here" pointing to Ray Brook "and here" where Camp Gabriels was at the time.
"Yeah. Those are prisons."
Posted by: FireHorse at May 27, 2015 10:06 AM (64tBw)
65
61 Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at May 27, 2015 10:03 AM (AylSc)
There's more homeless today than there were back when they were hysterical in the early 90s....
Homeless activism has always been about calumny on the GOP, and screwing up the House of Representatives.
There's more homeless today than there were back when they were hysterical in the early 90s....
Homeless activism has always been about calumny on the GOP, and screwing up the House of Representatives.
Posted by: Sven S Blade a.k.a. El Assassin@sven10077 at May 27, 2015 10:07 AM (/4AZU)
66
IIRC the official total of homeless was less than 400,000 nationwide in the book.
That's a lot of hobos. Gonna need moar ammo.
That's a lot of hobos. Gonna need moar ammo.
Posted by: rickb223 Straight, Conservative Clinger at May 27, 2015 10:07 AM (0wSVf)
67
You want to see voter registration drives go into hyperdrive? Apportion districts amongst the states based on eligible voters. And the only way of being certain that you have all your eligible voters is to get people registered.
And how much fraudulent fun will we have with that? I can hardly wait!
And how much fraudulent fun will we have with that? I can hardly wait!
Posted by: Mikey NTH - The Outrage Outlet Salutes All Who Have Protected Our American Right To Gripe! at May 27, 2015 10:08 AM (hLRSq)
68
What bothers me more is places like California getting seats in the House and Electoral Votes for their population of illegals.
Posted by: Pappy O'Daniel at May 27, 2015 10:08 AM (oVJmc)
69
"One thing that the Supreme Court justices will no doubt want to know: how accurate is the states' count of eligible voters?"
Voter registration would include the voter's name and address, no? I would think the data is certainly there.
Voter registration would include the voter's name and address, no? I would think the data is certainly there.
Posted by: can of spam at May 27, 2015 10:08 AM (g0aRc)
70
How about apportioned districts by tax payer? Everyone is supposed to file, right.
Posted by: Jean at May 27, 2015 10:09 AM (ztOda)
71
Voter name and address?
Fraudoire, King Co WA, and multiple names at public buildings - some fraud required si?
Fraudoire, King Co WA, and multiple names at public buildings - some fraud required si?
Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at May 27, 2015 10:10 AM (AylSc)
Posted by: Hungry Hawaiian Hobo at May 27, 2015 10:10 AM (h4vJk)
73
citizenship doesn't count for anything no more so why not residents. hell, let foreign countries vote for all i give a damn
Posted by: Bigby's Knuckle Sandwich at May 27, 2015 10:10 AM (kXA2o)
74
Just one more Justice appointed by Preezy Putt and one vote may be given to illegal aliens to use in any state or district they choose to show up in. Ponder that for a bit.
Posted by: Gmac- Pulling in feelers in preperation... at May 27, 2015 10:10 AM (4CRfK)
75
70
How about apportioned districts by tax payer? Everyone is supposed to file, right.
Posted by: Jean at May 27, 2015 10:09 AM (ztOda)
Disparate impact on those poor blacks again.
How about apportioned districts by tax payer? Everyone is supposed to file, right.
Posted by: Jean at May 27, 2015 10:09 AM (ztOda)
Disparate impact on those poor blacks again.
Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at May 27, 2015 10:10 AM (GpgJl)
76
Now then, about that Donk plan to re-district states based on bodies rather than registered citizen voters....
Posted by: exdem13 at May 27, 2015 10:11 AM (/mTq0)
77
*fingers P-38 on keychain*
So how much money does a can of spam have? That Hawai'ian is looking awfully hungry.
So how much money does a can of spam have? That Hawai'ian is looking awfully hungry.
Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at May 27, 2015 10:12 AM (AylSc)
78
Perhaps we can arrive at a compromise, say count the non-voters at 3/5ths.
...history may not repeat, but it sure as hell rhymes.
...history may not repeat, but it sure as hell rhymes.
Posted by: Brother Cavil, down with Eph 6:12 at May 27, 2015 10:13 AM (DT3rQ)
79
or hey better
just end the farce and let only senators congressmen and assorted toadies and familiars vote
just end the farce and let only senators congressmen and assorted toadies and familiars vote
Posted by: Bigby's Knuckle Sandwich at May 27, 2015 10:13 AM (bDyy3)
80
Morning Gabe, nice post and I really enjoyed the podcast with You, John and Allen. Funny and informative as always. Keep up the good work fellas.
Posted by: Arson Wells at May 27, 2015 10:13 AM (UnJ7w)
81
How about apportioned districts by tax payer? Everyone is supposed to file, right.
Posted by: Jean
**Throws yellow flag.**
15 yard penalty for using common sense against unarmed opponents. Repeat 1st down.
Posted by: Jean
**Throws yellow flag.**
15 yard penalty for using common sense against unarmed opponents. Repeat 1st down.
Posted by: rickb223 Straight, Conservative Clinger at May 27, 2015 10:13 AM (0wSVf)
82
And I still say the only way we are going to solve this, and other major issues, without another bloody civil war or a complete collapse aka Road Warrior is to have an Art V convention and fix a lot of this shit caused primarily by Democrats and allowed by Democrat-lite Republicans.
Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at May 27, 2015 10:13 AM (GpgJl)
Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this sh1t at May 27, 2015 10:14 AM (0HooB)
84
Gabe just doesn't like getting slapped around. Don't blame him, but I am not a new journalist on purpose.
My dream is that the representation be based solely on registered voters with the states having to clean the dead and non-eligibles off of the rolls.
In my state college students in dorms are to be counted as residents of the municipality the college is, and of course the GOTV people really push registration there.
Some municipalities in a burst of smarts decided that certain items that affect "livability" like expansion or change of urban growth boundaries, have to be decided by a certain percentage of the electorate, in that they cannot pass unless X% of the voters on the rolls vote on it.
College students don't generally give a crap, so they enroll and never vote, so these votes never pass....
Now the logical thing would be to request that the voter rolls be cleared regularly... but instead the rumor is that the municipalities just drop those requirements when they are inconvenient.
My dream is that the representation be based solely on registered voters with the states having to clean the dead and non-eligibles off of the rolls.
In my state college students in dorms are to be counted as residents of the municipality the college is, and of course the GOTV people really push registration there.
Some municipalities in a burst of smarts decided that certain items that affect "livability" like expansion or change of urban growth boundaries, have to be decided by a certain percentage of the electorate, in that they cannot pass unless X% of the voters on the rolls vote on it.
College students don't generally give a crap, so they enroll and never vote, so these votes never pass....
Now the logical thing would be to request that the voter rolls be cleared regularly... but instead the rumor is that the municipalities just drop those requirements when they are inconvenient.
Posted by: Kindltot at May 27, 2015 10:14 AM (t//F+)
85
Of course, my preference is a militia head count of citizens with rifles. Which we may get if the liberals locusts aren't stopped sooner.
Posted by: Jean at May 27, 2015 10:15 AM (ztOda)
86
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at May 27, 2015 09:31 AM (Zu3d9)
Redistricting happens because people move. The number is always a bit off because it's a snapshot of a particular moment.
Use voter registration numbers it's the best you'll get at any movement.
Redistricting happens because people move. The number is always a bit off because it's a snapshot of a particular moment.
Use voter registration numbers it's the best you'll get at any movement.
Posted by: tsrblke (Tablet) at May 27, 2015 10:15 AM (U8W/7)
87
How about apportioned districts by tax payer? Everyone is supposed to file, right.
Posted by: Jean
^This! I've been growing ever fonder of the notion that if you aren't a net taxpayer, you shouldn't have the franchise.
Posted by: Jean
^This! I've been growing ever fonder of the notion that if you aren't a net taxpayer, you shouldn't have the franchise.
Posted by: Insomniac at May 27, 2015 10:15 AM (2Ojst)
Posted by: Grump928(c) at May 27, 2015 10:15 AM (evdj2)
89
#81 Don't foreigners have to file occasionally too?
Posted by: Draki at May 27, 2015 10:15 AM (0eidE)
Posted by: Bigby's Knuckle Sandwich at May 27, 2015 10:15 AM (bDyy3)
91
#87 I agree, but when you get old and live off of social security you'll be a net consumer even while being a greeter probably.
Posted by: Draki at May 27, 2015 10:16 AM (0eidE)
92
"How about apportioned districts by tax payer? Everyone is supposed to file, right.
Posted by: Jean "
No, poor people below a certain income level are not required to file income taxes.
Or so I've read on the internet somewhere. Poor people would be under represented and the democrats would demand an adjustment to normalize the emaunalization of the estructian.
Posted by: Jean "
No, poor people below a certain income level are not required to file income taxes.
Or so I've read on the internet somewhere. Poor people would be under represented and the democrats would demand an adjustment to normalize the emaunalization of the estructian.
Posted by: Lysandar Bellingrade at May 27, 2015 10:16 AM (HQijX)
93
84 Now the logical thing would be to request that the
voter rolls be cleared regularly... but instead the rumor is that the
municipalities just drop those requirements when they are inconvenient.
Posted by: Kindltot at May 27, 2015 10:14 AM (t//F+)
As I said earlier, the Motor Voter law already requires that.
voter rolls be cleared regularly... but instead the rumor is that the
municipalities just drop those requirements when they are inconvenient.
Posted by: Kindltot at May 27, 2015 10:14 AM (t//F+)
As I said earlier, the Motor Voter law already requires that.
Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at May 27, 2015 10:16 AM (GpgJl)
94
Art V convention and fix a lot of this shit caused primarily by Democrats and allowed by Democrat-lite Republicans.
Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at May 27, 2015 10:13 AM (GpgJl)
THIS^^^^^^^^
Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at May 27, 2015 10:13 AM (GpgJl)
THIS^^^^^^^^
Posted by: Arson Wells at May 27, 2015 10:17 AM (UnJ7w)
95
Of course, my preference is a militia head count of citizens with rifles. Which we may get if the liberals locusts aren't stopped sooner.
One vote per firearm and I'd be king of my county.
One vote per firearm and I'd be king of my county.
Posted by: Grump928(c) at May 27, 2015 10:17 AM (evdj2)
96
art v no thank you Vic
please for the love of God read up on the criticism of it
don't fail for Levins siren song
please for the love of God read up on the criticism of it
don't fail for Levins siren song
Posted by: Bigby's Knuckle Sandwich at May 27, 2015 10:18 AM (kXA2o)
97
Bush signed the bill amid fanfare and before an South Lawn audience that included members of Congress, civil rights leaders and family members of civil rights leaders of the recent past.
Pandering to the race pimps. How'd that work out for you, Dubya?
Pandering to the race pimps. How'd that work out for you, Dubya?
Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at May 27, 2015 10:18 AM (zF6Iw)
98
#92 Agreed, even if you're poor you should count as a voter and count in the districts.
Posted by: Draki at May 27, 2015 10:19 AM (0eidE)
99
art v no thank you Vic
please for the love of God read up on the criticism of it
The alternative is increasingly looking to be "something imposed by force". By whom remains an open question.
please for the love of God read up on the criticism of it
The alternative is increasingly looking to be "something imposed by force". By whom remains an open question.
Posted by: Brother Cavil, down with Eph 6:12 at May 27, 2015 10:19 AM (DT3rQ)
Posted by: Grump928(c) at May 27, 2015 10:19 AM (evdj2)
101
When we let felons and illegal aliens choose our leaders, then we will get leaders preferred by felons and illegal aliens.
Posted by: Citizen Cake at May 27, 2015 10:20 AM (ppaKI)
Posted by: Bigby's Knuckle Sandwich at May 27, 2015 10:20 AM (kXA2o)
103
We have a leader preferred by felons and illegal aliens
Posted by: Thunderb at May 27, 2015 10:20 AM (zOTsN)
104
don't fail for Levins siren song
Posted by: Bigby's Knuckle Sandwich at May 27, 2015 10:18 AM (kXA2o)
How can the only mechanism the Founders left us for situations like this be a "siren song"? Was George Mason a closet Progressive?
Posted by: Bigby's Knuckle Sandwich at May 27, 2015 10:18 AM (kXA2o)
How can the only mechanism the Founders left us for situations like this be a "siren song"? Was George Mason a closet Progressive?
Posted by: Arson Wells at May 27, 2015 10:20 AM (UnJ7w)
105
In a sane world it'd be great if this case could be used to just throw the anti-Constitutional abomination that is "one person, one vote" in the trash and re-allow states to apportion Senate-type districts, as they did for the first ~180 years of the country's existence.
Posted by: bb at May 27, 2015 10:21 AM (Q7JKK)
106
@ 78
The dems would love another 3/5 compromise, which they could then misrepresent as saying that illegals were 3/5 of a person for the next couple of centuries.
The dems would love another 3/5 compromise, which they could then misrepresent as saying that illegals were 3/5 of a person for the next couple of centuries.
Posted by: Beef at May 27, 2015 10:21 AM (/q4N3)
107
Art V convention and fix a lot of this shit caused primarily by Democrats and allowed by Democrat-lite Republicans.
Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at May 27, 2015 10:13 AM (GpgJl)
So who would be at that convention, writing that new Constitution?
Yeah - considering that convention would be populated by the same poltroons we happen to have in office right now I think I'll pass on that idea.
Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at May 27, 2015 10:13 AM (GpgJl)
So who would be at that convention, writing that new Constitution?
Yeah - considering that convention would be populated by the same poltroons we happen to have in office right now I think I'll pass on that idea.
Posted by: Mikey NTH - The Outrage Outlet Salutes All Who Have Protected Our American Right To Gripe! at May 27, 2015 10:21 AM (hLRSq)
108
Poor file to get cash via various credits, they are the most likely to file. Foreign, alien corporations, and such use different forms, so they can be filtered out easily.
Of course this fits nicely with Plan Jean: End Withholding, and have taxes due at the end of the Government fiscal year. The second Tuesday in November is a few weeks later, so the various government IT minions would have time to reconcile the filed into nice voter rolls by precinct.
Of course this fits nicely with Plan Jean: End Withholding, and have taxes due at the end of the Government fiscal year. The second Tuesday in November is a few weeks later, so the various government IT minions would have time to reconcile the filed into nice voter rolls by precinct.
Posted by: Jean at May 27, 2015 10:21 AM (ztOda)
109
Don't worry, we got this. Undocumented Democrats gonna vote, no matter what those old whiteys and wise latina say.
Posted by: Barky, Bitch and Bohner at May 27, 2015 10:21 AM (5buP8)
110
fuck how many times do we have to go through this
Posted by: Bigby's Knuckle Sandwich at May 27, 2015 10:20 AM (kXA2o)
Please enlighten us. Have any links to good rebuttals against the Article V solution?
Posted by: Bigby's Knuckle Sandwich at May 27, 2015 10:20 AM (kXA2o)
Please enlighten us. Have any links to good rebuttals against the Article V solution?
Posted by: Arson Wells at May 27, 2015 10:21 AM (UnJ7w)
111
96
art v no thank you Vic
please for the love of God read up on the criticism of it
don't fail for Levins siren song
Posted by: Bigby's Knuckle Sandwich at May 27, 2015 10:18 AM (kXA2o)
The criticisms I have seen are not valid. They do not take into account how the convention works. One State, one vote. There are more Red States than there are blue. Also, it opens up the possibility if agreement can not be reached of splitting the US into multiple entities.
art v no thank you Vic
please for the love of God read up on the criticism of it
don't fail for Levins siren song
Posted by: Bigby's Knuckle Sandwich at May 27, 2015 10:18 AM (kXA2o)
The criticisms I have seen are not valid. They do not take into account how the convention works. One State, one vote. There are more Red States than there are blue. Also, it opens up the possibility if agreement can not be reached of splitting the US into multiple entities.
Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at May 27, 2015 10:22 AM (GpgJl)
112
When we let felons and illegal aliens choose our leaders, then we will get leaders preferred by felons and illegal aliens.
Sorta like what we have now, TFG with his hooves propped up on the Resolute desk?
Sorta like what we have now, TFG with his hooves propped up on the Resolute desk?
Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this sh1t at May 27, 2015 10:22 AM (0HooB)
113
And also, Art V is preferable to a complete collapse into Road Warrior or another bloody civil war that kills 25% of the population.
Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at May 27, 2015 10:23 AM (GpgJl)
114
fuck who's at the art v convo
look at the proposed amendments themselves
the so called liberty amendments provide mechanisms to continue the abuses
wtf its so obvious
look at the proposed amendments themselves
the so called liberty amendments provide mechanisms to continue the abuses
wtf its so obvious
Posted by: Bigby's Knuckle Sandwich at May 27, 2015 10:23 AM (9mv+D)
115
I agree, but when you get old and live off of social security you'll be a net consumer even while being a greeter probably.
Posted by: Draki at May 27, 2015 10:16 AM (0eidE)
You're assuming that A) I'll be living off Social Security and B) when I'm old enough to qualify for Social Security, there will still be a Social Security program.
Posted by: Draki at May 27, 2015 10:16 AM (0eidE)
You're assuming that A) I'll be living off Social Security and B) when I'm old enough to qualify for Social Security, there will still be a Social Security program.
Posted by: Insomniac at May 27, 2015 10:24 AM (2Ojst)
116
*checks weather radar*
So much for visiting the museum in Mound LA with the P-51D and Waco Model 17. Got reds and yellows moving in from the west approaching Tallulah at a good pace.
So much for visiting the museum in Mound LA with the P-51D and Waco Model 17. Got reds and yellows moving in from the west approaching Tallulah at a good pace.
Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at May 27, 2015 10:24 AM (AylSc)
117
Again history gets abused. The South wanted a full accounting of slaves; it was the North that wanted them to have no representation. 3/5th was a compromise in their favor.
It wasn't about the right to vote, back then we had property qualifications for voting. Not even all white men could vote. Much less women, etc.
It wasn't about the right to vote, back then we had property qualifications for voting. Not even all white men could vote. Much less women, etc.
Posted by: Jean at May 27, 2015 10:25 AM (ztOda)
118
In my state college students in dorms are to be counted as residents of the municipality the college is, and of course the GOTV people really push registration there.
What is your states definition of temporary resident?
I've always been aggravated that colleges require a student to move out/home at the end of the semester, only to have to move back at the start of a new semester. Witness all of the cars loaded to the brim heading away from a college town at the end of a semester.
What is your states definition of temporary resident?
I've always been aggravated that colleges require a student to move out/home at the end of the semester, only to have to move back at the start of a new semester. Witness all of the cars loaded to the brim heading away from a college town at the end of a semester.
Posted by: rickb223 Straight, Conservative Clinger at May 27, 2015 10:25 AM (0wSVf)
Posted by: Bigby's Knuckle Sandwich at May 27, 2015 10:25 AM (9mv+D)
120
113 And also, Art V is preferable to a complete collapse into Road Warrior or another bloody civil war that kills 25% of the population.
Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at May 27, 2015 10:23 AM (GpgJl)
Finally, a voice of reason. It seems to me the people poo pooing Article V have a limited understanding of the process. As it stands the Constitution is being circumvented without consequence. At least We The People would have a say with an Art V convention.
Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at May 27, 2015 10:23 AM (GpgJl)
Finally, a voice of reason. It seems to me the people poo pooing Article V have a limited understanding of the process. As it stands the Constitution is being circumvented without consequence. At least We The People would have a say with an Art V convention.
Posted by: Arson Wells at May 27, 2015 10:25 AM (UnJ7w)
121
Not even all white men could vote.
Thank you for noting this important historical fact. It gets deliberately left out by those advancing Teh Narrative.
Thank you for noting this important historical fact. It gets deliberately left out by those advancing Teh Narrative.
Posted by: Insomniac at May 27, 2015 10:26 AM (2Ojst)
122
OT
Guess who gave the Clinton Foundation a ton of money? FIFA. I really believe the JEF is trying to kill her election bid. It's like Alien vs Predator
Guess who gave the Clinton Foundation a ton of money? FIFA. I really believe the JEF is trying to kill her election bid. It's like Alien vs Predator
Posted by: Thunderb at May 27, 2015 10:26 AM (zOTsN)
123
back in a bit
Posted by: Bigby's Knuckle Sandwich at May 27, 2015 10:26 AM (9mv+D)
124
At least We The People would have a say with an Art V convention.
Posted by: Arson Wells at May 27, 2015 10:25 AM (UnJ7w)
Are you assuming that the people in power would abide by an At. V?Why would they?
Posted by: Arson Wells at May 27, 2015 10:25 AM (UnJ7w)
Are you assuming that the people in power would abide by an At. V?Why would they?
Posted by: Velvet Ambition at May 27, 2015 10:29 AM (R8hU8)
125
Redistricting happens because people move. The number is always a bit off because it's a snapshot of a particular moment.
Posted by: tsrblke (Tablet) at May 27, 2015 10:15 AM
________
That, and other factors. A variable total population with a constant number of Congressional districts changes the number of people per district. Add to that the fact that some districts have rigid boundaries (state lines) and the best you can get is an imperfect, temporary solution every ten years.
As to who should be counted, that's a tough one, too. Should a prison inmate or an illegal alien be represented in Congress? I'd say no, but these people are still using stuff like water. So I don't know.
Posted by: tsrblke (Tablet) at May 27, 2015 10:15 AM
________
That, and other factors. A variable total population with a constant number of Congressional districts changes the number of people per district. Add to that the fact that some districts have rigid boundaries (state lines) and the best you can get is an imperfect, temporary solution every ten years.
As to who should be counted, that's a tough one, too. Should a prison inmate or an illegal alien be represented in Congress? I'd say no, but these people are still using stuff like water. So I don't know.
Posted by: FireHorse at May 27, 2015 10:29 AM (64tBw)
Posted by: Lizzy at May 27, 2015 10:29 AM (t0dO8)
127
Ok, that link you posted assumes the Constitution is being followed, which it is NOT. Read the Liberty Amendments and decide for yourself.
Posted by: Arson Wells at May 27, 2015 10:29 AM (UnJ7w)
128
How can the only mechanism the Founders left us for situations like this be a "siren song"?
The Founders wrote those documents for a virtuous people. Remove them, and it's a crap shoot.
The Founders wrote those documents for a virtuous people. Remove them, and it's a crap shoot.
Posted by: rickb223 Straight, Conservative Clinger at May 27, 2015 10:31 AM (0wSVf)
129
Why would they?
Posted by: Velvet Ambition at May 27, 2015 10:29 AM (R8hU
The people in power would have no choice but to abide by it. Are you suggesting that the federal gov't would ignore an amendment to the Constitution?
Posted by: Velvet Ambition at May 27, 2015 10:29 AM (R8hU
The people in power would have no choice but to abide by it. Are you suggesting that the federal gov't would ignore an amendment to the Constitution?
Posted by: Arson Wells at May 27, 2015 10:31 AM (UnJ7w)
130
For the record, I think Art V is about as useful a tool as any other form of "we need another law, to deal with this situation, which was created by people ignoring the 237 other laws we already have on the books for this".
As in, it isn't.
Oh, and John Adams called. He said, "I told you so."
As in, it isn't.
Oh, and John Adams called. He said, "I told you so."
Posted by: Brother Cavil, down with Eph 6:12 at May 27, 2015 10:32 AM (DT3rQ)
131
The Founders wrote those documents for a virtuous people. Remove them, and it's a crap shoot.
Posted by: rickb223 Straight, Conservative Clinger at May 27, 2015 10:31 AM (0wSVf)
Have you read the Constitution? Have you read Article V?
Posted by: rickb223 Straight, Conservative Clinger at May 27, 2015 10:31 AM (0wSVf)
Have you read the Constitution? Have you read Article V?
Posted by: Arson Wells at May 27, 2015 10:32 AM (UnJ7w)
132
The people in power would have no choice but to abide by it. Are you suggesting that the federal gov't would ignore an amendment to the Constitution?
Posted by: Arson Wells
Oh, you.
Posted by: Arson Wells
Oh, you.
Posted by: The Tenth Amendment at May 27, 2015 10:32 AM (DT3rQ)
133
wtf its so obvious
Posted by: Bigby's Knuckle Sandwich at May 27, 2015 10:23 AM (9mv+D)
It certainly is. Those amendments would be voted down by the convention and then they will come up with their own ideas, such as making pets "humans" and whatever else nonsense the SJW types come up with. " Hey, how about that Freedom of Speech? How about we make sure that Hate Speech is banned?"*
*Proponents suppose that only good things will come out of such a convention - I get to suppose that only bad things will come out.
Posted by: Bigby's Knuckle Sandwich at May 27, 2015 10:23 AM (9mv+D)
It certainly is. Those amendments would be voted down by the convention and then they will come up with their own ideas, such as making pets "humans" and whatever else nonsense the SJW types come up with. " Hey, how about that Freedom of Speech? How about we make sure that Hate Speech is banned?"*
*Proponents suppose that only good things will come out of such a convention - I get to suppose that only bad things will come out.
Posted by: Mikey NTH - The Outrage Outlet Salutes All Who Have Protected Our American Right To Gripe! at May 27, 2015 10:33 AM (hLRSq)
Posted by: Nineth Amendment at May 27, 2015 10:33 AM (evdj2)
135
Are you suggesting that the federal gov't would ignore an amendment to the Constitution?
Posted by: Arson Wells at May 27, 2015 10:31 AM (UnJ7w)
Fuck yes!
Posted by: Arson Wells at May 27, 2015 10:31 AM (UnJ7w)
Fuck yes!
Posted by: Velvet Ambition at May 27, 2015 10:33 AM (R8hU8)
136
The people in power would have no choice but to abide by it. Are you suggesting that the federal gov't would ignore an amendment to the Constitution?
Posted by: Arson Wells at May 27, 2015 10:31 AM (UnJ7w)
Ha. Ha HA HA!! HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!!!!!
Posted by: Arson Wells at May 27, 2015 10:31 AM (UnJ7w)
Ha. Ha HA HA!! HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!!!!!
Posted by: Insomniac at May 27, 2015 10:33 AM (2Ojst)
Posted by: Democratic Party - Corcoran State Prison Affiliate at May 27, 2015 10:33 AM (ppaKI)
138
ATTICA! ATTICA!
Posted by: Nineth Amendment at May 27, 2015 10:34 AM (evdj2)
139
I'll make a prediction ...
... Dread Pirate Roberts sides w/ Ruth Buzzy, The Wize Latina, The Jolly Jewess, and A Justice To Be Named Later to include illegals because ... Democrats.
... Dread Pirate Roberts sides w/ Ruth Buzzy, The Wize Latina, The Jolly Jewess, and A Justice To Be Named Later to include illegals because ... Democrats.
Posted by: ScoggDog at May 27, 2015 10:34 AM (8nAzo)
140
The people in power would have no choice but to abide by it.
Are you suggesting that the federal gov't would ignore an amendment to the Constitution?
Yes. Period. Full stop.
They ignore the CONSTITUTION now.
Unless the penalty is summary execution, they will ignore amendments.
Are you suggesting that the federal gov't would ignore an amendment to the Constitution?
Yes. Period. Full stop.
They ignore the CONSTITUTION now.
Unless the penalty is summary execution, they will ignore amendments.
Posted by: rickb223 Straight, Conservative Clinger at May 27, 2015 10:35 AM (0wSVf)
141
You can't call a convention for a specific amendment and then have rogue reps vote to remove the 1st amendment, thats not how it works.
Posted by: Arson Wells at May 27, 2015 10:35 AM (UnJ7w)
142
Watch as the country is fundamentally transformed.
Watch as the country is fundamentally transformed.
Watch as the country is fundamentally transformed.
but Kim Kardashian somethingorother.
Watch as the country is fundamentally transformed.
Watch as the country is fundamentally transformed.
but Kim Kardashian somethingorother.
Posted by: The Ketuchup Song at May 27, 2015 10:35 AM (SWp85)
Posted by: Grump928(c) at May 27, 2015 10:35 AM (evdj2)
144
Unless the penalty is summary execution, they will ignore amendments.
I am intrigued by your proposal and would like to subscribe to your newsletter.
I am intrigued by your proposal and would like to subscribe to your newsletter.
Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this sh1t at May 27, 2015 10:36 AM (0HooB)
145
An ArtV convention is a creature of the State Legislatures. They set the rules and they get to vote on the results. Remember, whatever wild shit the ArtV convention comes up with must still be approved by 3/4 of the State Legislatures. So, nothing too exteme will get thru.
At best, you will see amendments that return the Senate to State control, a balanced budget amendment, and mechanisms to curtail unfunded mandates and the sweeping power of the Commerce Clause.
In reality, Congress will move swiftly to quell any serious ArtV attempt by appeasement, as what happened with the BBA.
At best, you will see amendments that return the Senate to State control, a balanced budget amendment, and mechanisms to curtail unfunded mandates and the sweeping power of the Commerce Clause.
In reality, Congress will move swiftly to quell any serious ArtV attempt by appeasement, as what happened with the BBA.
Posted by: Jean at May 27, 2015 10:37 AM (ztOda)
146
I'm of the opinion that an Article V convention, if it resulted in any amendments being adopted (which is a long shot, given the 3/4 of all state legislatures requirement) would be an unmitigated clusterf*ck.
Posted by: Insomniac at May 27, 2015 10:37 AM (2Ojst)
Posted by: The Donks at May 27, 2015 10:37 AM (ba0Bt)
148
Redistricting based on race and ethnicity is unconstitutional, but the government does it every 10 years.
The feds will bus children into white neighborhoods to avoid racial segregation, but when they redraw legislative districts, it is based almost entirely on creating "black districts" or "hispanic districts."
The feds will bus children into white neighborhoods to avoid racial segregation, but when they redraw legislative districts, it is based almost entirely on creating "black districts" or "hispanic districts."
Posted by: Adirondack Patriot at May 27, 2015 10:37 AM (iAUf+)
149
So let's say we add an amendment to the Constitution that places term limits on Congress. How the fuck would that be ignored without an all out revolution?
Posted by: Arson Wells at May 27, 2015 10:37 AM (UnJ7w)
150
Unless the penalty is summary execution, they will ignore amendments.
I am intrigued by your proposal and would like to subscribe to your newsletter.
Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this sh1t at May 27, 2015 10:36 AM (0HooB)
He's such a tease.
Unless the penalty is summary execution, they will ignore amendments.
I am intrigued by your proposal and would like to subscribe to your newsletter.
Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this sh1t at May 27, 2015 10:36 AM (0HooB)
He's such a tease.
Posted by: IllTemperedCur at May 27, 2015 10:39 AM (ba0Bt)
151
I'm of the opinion that an Article V convention, if it resulted in any amendments being adopted (which is a long shot, given the 3/4 of all state legislatures requirement) would be an unmitigated clusterf*ck.
Never underestimate the power of our domestic enemies (yeah, I'm looking at you, George Soros) to destroy our way of life.
Never underestimate the power of our domestic enemies (yeah, I'm looking at you, George Soros) to destroy our way of life.
Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this sh1t at May 27, 2015 10:40 AM (0HooB)
152
So let's say we add an amendment to the Constitution that places term limits on Congress
Apologies, I meant the Supreme Court. Term limits on the supreme court.
Apologies, I meant the Supreme Court. Term limits on the supreme court.
Posted by: Arson Wells at May 27, 2015 10:40 AM (UnJ7w)
153
The State Legislatury might go for term limits, as it creates some turnover at the top. They personally would all see it as an opportunity to run for those seats. Add that one to the possibles pile.
Posted by: Jean at May 27, 2015 10:40 AM (ztOda)
154
About 20,000 people were evacuated from the western German city of Cologne on Wednesday after authorities dug up a World War II bomb.
Residents, including about 1,100 from a large nursing home, who live within a half mile from the site were forced to leave their homes during the citys largest evacuation since the end of the war, AFP reported.
The unexploded 440 pound bomb, which was made in the United States, was lying 16 feet underground near Muelheim bridge crossing the Rhine River when it was unearthed Friday during construction work.
It was set to be deactived later Wednesday.
The gift that keeps on giving!
Residents, including about 1,100 from a large nursing home, who live within a half mile from the site were forced to leave their homes during the citys largest evacuation since the end of the war, AFP reported.
The unexploded 440 pound bomb, which was made in the United States, was lying 16 feet underground near Muelheim bridge crossing the Rhine River when it was unearthed Friday during construction work.
It was set to be deactived later Wednesday.
The gift that keeps on giving!
Posted by: Nevergiveup at May 27, 2015 10:40 AM (rDqRv)
155
102--I've read the critiques. Sorry, not persuasive. Why is it you choose to ignore this one section of the Constitution? What previous experience with Art V would you cite?
We've got nothing to lose, and no other Constitutional option. May as well try Art V first, before resorting to other measures.
We've got nothing to lose, and no other Constitutional option. May as well try Art V first, before resorting to other measures.
Posted by: bystander at May 27, 2015 10:40 AM (hKyl0)
156
have read it arson wells
had a boss who told me sometimes the best business decision is to ignore a customer
you fit that like a glove
had a boss who told me sometimes the best business decision is to ignore a customer
you fit that like a glove
Posted by: Bigby's Knuckle Sandwich at May 27, 2015 10:41 AM (VLzDC)
157
You can't call a convention for a specific amendment and then have rogue reps vote to remove the 1st amendment, thats not how it works.
Posted by: Arson Wells at May 27, 2015 10:35 AM (UnJ7w)
You do know that the current Constitution was written in a convention that was gathered to propose changes to the Articles of Confederation? It seems to me that Madison, Washington, et al. went a little beyond their authority.
And yes, the people involved in the convention would be important. The people selected to attend would be political leaders and right now I am seeing a serious lack of political leaders with the stature of Madison, Washington, Franklin, and so on.
No, I do not trust these people to abide by their instructions and stay within the bounds of their authority.
Posted by: Arson Wells at May 27, 2015 10:35 AM (UnJ7w)
You do know that the current Constitution was written in a convention that was gathered to propose changes to the Articles of Confederation? It seems to me that Madison, Washington, et al. went a little beyond their authority.
And yes, the people involved in the convention would be important. The people selected to attend would be political leaders and right now I am seeing a serious lack of political leaders with the stature of Madison, Washington, Franklin, and so on.
No, I do not trust these people to abide by their instructions and stay within the bounds of their authority.
Posted by: Mikey NTH - The Outrage Outlet Salutes All Who Have Protected Our American Right To Gripe! at May 27, 2015 10:42 AM (hLRSq)
158
Make each illegal alien represent 1/3 of a person for representation purposes?
Sometimes you have to go retro!
Sometimes you have to go retro!
Posted by: Brendan at May 27, 2015 10:43 AM (8YVZT)
159
We've got nothing to lose, and no other Constitutional option. May as well try Art V first, before resorting to other measures.
Posted by: bystander at May 27, 2015 10:40 AM (hKyl0)
Exactly, why not use the Constitution to save the Constitution? Revolutions are horrible. My father had to flee his homeland to escape one and he barely did so with his life. My other family members were not so fortunate.
Posted by: bystander at May 27, 2015 10:40 AM (hKyl0)
Exactly, why not use the Constitution to save the Constitution? Revolutions are horrible. My father had to flee his homeland to escape one and he barely did so with his life. My other family members were not so fortunate.
Posted by: Arson Wells at May 27, 2015 10:43 AM (UnJ7w)
160
The people in power would have no choice but to abide by it.
Ah, the naivete of youth.
Are you suggesting that the federal gov't would ignore an amendment to the Constitution?
To paraphrase Stalin, "how many divisions do you have?" Until bodies start dangling from lampposts, the fuckers in the federal government will ignore any attempt to curb their power. And that absolutely includes an Art V convention, no matter how much Levin thinks it will work.
Ah, the naivete of youth.
Are you suggesting that the federal gov't would ignore an amendment to the Constitution?
To paraphrase Stalin, "how many divisions do you have?" Until bodies start dangling from lampposts, the fuckers in the federal government will ignore any attempt to curb their power. And that absolutely includes an Art V convention, no matter how much Levin thinks it will work.
Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at May 27, 2015 10:43 AM (zF6Iw)
161
So let's say we add an amendment to the Constitution that places term limits on Congress. How the fuck would that be ignored without an all out revolution?
Posted by: Arson Wells at May 27, 2015 10:37 AM (UnJ7w)
Great, let's do that. Only let's avoid going through a convention and stick with the other ways of amending the current document.
Posted by: Arson Wells at May 27, 2015 10:37 AM (UnJ7w)
Great, let's do that. Only let's avoid going through a convention and stick with the other ways of amending the current document.
Posted by: Mikey NTH - The Outrage Outlet Salutes All Who Have Protected Our American Right To Gripe! at May 27, 2015 10:44 AM (hLRSq)
162
No, I do not trust these people to abide by their instructions and stay within the bounds of their authority.
Posted by: Mikey NTH - The Outrage Outlet Salutes All Who Have Protected Our American Right To Gripe! at May 27, 2015 10:42 AM (hLRSq)
Why not?
Posted by: Mikey NTH - The Outrage Outlet Salutes All Who Have Protected Our American Right To Gripe! at May 27, 2015 10:42 AM (hLRSq)
Why not?
Posted by: Lois Lerner at May 27, 2015 10:44 AM (2Ojst)
163
All you opponents of an Art V know who else is adamantly opposed to one? The Washington establishment.
Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at May 27, 2015 10:46 AM (GpgJl)
Posted by: Mikey NTH - The Outrage Outlet Salutes All Who Have Protected Our American Right To Gripe! at May 27, 2015 10:46 AM (hLRSq)
165
vNo, I do not trust these people to abide by their instructions and stay within the bounds of their authority.
Posted by: Mikey NTH - The Outrage Outlet Salutes All Who Have Protected Our American Right To Gripe! at May 27, 2015 10:42 AM (hLRSq
Ok last time I respond to a comment like this. If you do not UNDERSTAND the topic being debated then don't debate. You don't do yourself or anyone else any favors arguing points that do not match the facts. Educate yourself on the Article V process then argue it for pete's sake.
Posted by: Mikey NTH - The Outrage Outlet Salutes All Who Have Protected Our American Right To Gripe! at May 27, 2015 10:42 AM (hLRSq
Ok last time I respond to a comment like this. If you do not UNDERSTAND the topic being debated then don't debate. You don't do yourself or anyone else any favors arguing points that do not match the facts. Educate yourself on the Article V process then argue it for pete's sake.
Posted by: Arson Wells at May 27, 2015 10:46 AM (UnJ7w)
Posted by: Bigby's Knuckle Sandwich at May 27, 2015 10:47 AM (kXA2o)
167
This could either usher in non-citizen voting or it could push Voter ID to make sure the count of eligible voters is correct.
Posted by: Serge Gainsbourg at May 27, 2015 10:47 AM (e8kgV)
168
20K folks seems like a bit much for a relatively small bomb.
Posted by: Jean at May 27, 2015 10:47 AM (ztOda)
169
Exactly, why not use the Constitution to save the Constitution?
Why do that? The Constitution, as written, is not broken.
Why not just follow the Constitution?
Wait, they are not following the one we have, but the next one will be better?
Where have we heard that before?
Why do that? The Constitution, as written, is not broken.
Why not just follow the Constitution?
Wait, they are not following the one we have, but the next one will be better?
Where have we heard that before?
Posted by: rickb223 Straight, Conservative Clinger at May 27, 2015 10:47 AM (0wSVf)
170
I don't know about the deep legal issues involved in the case, but I do know how at least 4 justices will rule.
"How does this help the Democrats? We'll do that."
And for all of the law review articles and Ivy League handwringing, that's what it amounts to. Period.
"How does this help the Democrats? We'll do that."
And for all of the law review articles and Ivy League handwringing, that's what it amounts to. Period.
Posted by: AmishDude at May 27, 2015 10:47 AM (b4b5c)
171
My father had to flee his homeland to escape one and
he barely did so with his life. My other family members were not so
fortunate.
Posted by: Arson Wells at May 27, 2015 10:43 AM (UnJ7w)
Did tour fathers homeland have the right to bear arms?
he barely did so with his life. My other family members were not so
fortunate.
Posted by: Arson Wells at May 27, 2015 10:43 AM (UnJ7w)
Did tour fathers homeland have the right to bear arms?
Posted by: Velvet Ambition at May 27, 2015 10:47 AM (R8hU8)
172
An Art V Convention would be chaotic, rife with potential pitfalls and uncertainties, but it also has the potential to be a great first step towards changing the course of our country, especially with regard to the relationship between the Citizen and the State, which has been malformed by time and inertia into an aberration. Just be ready to fight a million battles on a million fronts, the NAACP in the South, the Labor Unions in the North, the Green-fanatics out West, all will be fighting for their lives.
Posted by: Lincolntf at May 27, 2015 10:48 AM (2cS/G)
173
your not tour
Posted by: Velvet Ambition at May 27, 2015 10:48 AM (R8hU8)
174
166 progressives
Posted by: Bigby's Knuckle Sandwich at May 27, 2015 10:47 AM (kXA2o)
I haven't seen any evidence of that since Washington is run by progressives and they hate the idea.
Posted by: Bigby's Knuckle Sandwich at May 27, 2015 10:47 AM (kXA2o)
I haven't seen any evidence of that since Washington is run by progressives and they hate the idea.
Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at May 27, 2015 10:48 AM (GpgJl)
175
158 Make each illegal alien represent 1/3 of a person for representation purposes?
Sometimes you have to go retro!
Posted by: Brendan at May 27, 2015 10:43 AM (8YVZT)
I have a better idea: make each one count as minus 1/3 of a person. Let's see how fast the liberals can lose those "sanctuary" policies then.
Sometimes you have to go retro!
Posted by: Brendan at May 27, 2015 10:43 AM (8YVZT)
I have a better idea: make each one count as minus 1/3 of a person. Let's see how fast the liberals can lose those "sanctuary" policies then.
Posted by: Jay Guevara at May 27, 2015 10:49 AM (oKE6c)
176
you fit that like a glove
Posted by: Bigby's Knuckle Sandwich at May 27, 2015 10:41 AM (VLzDC)
I can respect that Bigby. That doesn't mean I have to stop making the case for it though.
Posted by: Bigby's Knuckle Sandwich at May 27, 2015 10:41 AM (VLzDC)
I can respect that Bigby. That doesn't mean I have to stop making the case for it though.
Posted by: Arson Wells at May 27, 2015 10:49 AM (UnJ7w)
177
20K folks seems like a bit much for a relatively small bomb.
I thought so too. Seems like we could have displaced the entire country during WWII by just dropping a couple of dozen with those numbers.
I thought so too. Seems like we could have displaced the entire country during WWII by just dropping a couple of dozen with those numbers.
Posted by: rickb223 Straight, Conservative Clinger at May 27, 2015 10:50 AM (0wSVf)
178
Ok last time I respond to a comment like this. If you do not UNDERSTAND the topic being debated then don't debate. You don't do yourself or anyone else any favors arguing points that do not match the facts. Educate yourself on the Article V process then argue it for pete's sake.
Posted by: Arson Wells at May 27, 2015 10:46 AM (UnJ7w)
I do not accept your premises and facts, so please go and fcuk yourself.
Posted by: Arson Wells at May 27, 2015 10:46 AM (UnJ7w)
I do not accept your premises and facts, so please go and fcuk yourself.
Posted by: Mikey NTH - The Outrage Outlet Salutes All Who Have Protected Our American Right To Gripe! at May 27, 2015 10:50 AM (hLRSq)
179
Posted by: Mikey NTH - The Outrage Outlet Salutes All Who Have Protected Our American Right To Gripe! at May 27, 2015 10:42 AM
Being a simple person at heart, I believe there is a simple solution for this problem. And, by extension, a simple solution for the tyranny Choom Boy has imposed on us.
Ready for it? Here it is: Enforce the laws now on the books. Enforce the Constitution.
End of problem.
If a judge (or judges) tell the Mocha Messiah he is violating the law, let them do what they would do in local criminal cases: send law enforcement officers with handcuffs and jail-cell keys in hand to pay him a visit.
Rinse, repeat with members of Congress.
Do not let violations continue and then whinge because those of weak moral fiber, greed and excess hatred for the country that gave them everything (accent on "gave") take advantage. Forcibly restrain their illegal acts.
That once was the American Way. It should be again, now and always.
Being a simple person at heart, I believe there is a simple solution for this problem. And, by extension, a simple solution for the tyranny Choom Boy has imposed on us.
Ready for it? Here it is: Enforce the laws now on the books. Enforce the Constitution.
End of problem.
If a judge (or judges) tell the Mocha Messiah he is violating the law, let them do what they would do in local criminal cases: send law enforcement officers with handcuffs and jail-cell keys in hand to pay him a visit.
Rinse, repeat with members of Congress.
Do not let violations continue and then whinge because those of weak moral fiber, greed and excess hatred for the country that gave them everything (accent on "gave") take advantage. Forcibly restrain their illegal acts.
That once was the American Way. It should be again, now and always.
Posted by: MrScribbler at May 27, 2015 10:50 AM (P8YHq)
180
Kinda like how I didn't read the text books in Dental School?
I can send you a rarely opened Endodontics text by Engle, if you want to start.
Kinda like how I didn't read the text books in Dental School?
I can send you a rarely opened Endodontics text by Engle, if you want to start.
Posted by: free tibet with purchase of equal or greater value tibet at May 27, 2015 10:51 AM (F2IAQ)
181
"Make each illegal alien represent 1/3 of a person for representation purposes?"
Oh come on, we've got to follow Constitutional precedent. They're worth 3/5.
Oh come on, we've got to follow Constitutional precedent. They're worth 3/5.
Posted by: Tom Servo at May 27, 2015 10:51 AM (Kpl3J)
182
Parts of Washington Establishment abhor the idea of an ArtV convention. Which is why the various State Legislatures should be all over it. If it's a real threat the floodgates of Federal cash and inducements to the States will be cranked open.
There are others who like the idea of term limits because the mandarins love the rookies.
There are others who like the idea of term limits because the mandarins love the rookies.
Posted by: Jean at May 27, 2015 10:51 AM (ztOda)
183
Did tour fathers homeland have the right to bear arms?
Posted by: Velvet Ambition at May 27, 2015 10:47 AM (R8hU
Nope.
Posted by: Velvet Ambition at May 27, 2015 10:47 AM (R8hU
Nope.
Posted by: Arson Wells at May 27, 2015 10:52 AM (UnJ7w)
184
Being a simple person at heart, I believe there is a simple solution for this problem.
And, by extension, a simple solution for the tyranny Choom Boy has imposed on us.
Ready for it? Here it is: Enforce the laws now on the books. Enforce the Constitution.
Game, Set, and Match.
And, by extension, a simple solution for the tyranny Choom Boy has imposed on us.
Ready for it? Here it is: Enforce the laws now on the books. Enforce the Constitution.
Game, Set, and Match.
Posted by: rickb223 Straight, Conservative Clinger at May 27, 2015 10:52 AM (0wSVf)
185
Posted by: Arson Wells at May 27, 2015 10:46 AM (UnJ7w)
hey I don't know you and you seem to be kinda new here. But everytime I do see you, you seem to be fighting with people here and it get's nasty. My advice: tone it back a bit.
hey I don't know you and you seem to be kinda new here. But everytime I do see you, you seem to be fighting with people here and it get's nasty. My advice: tone it back a bit.
Posted by: Nevergiveup at May 27, 2015 10:53 AM (rDqRv)
186
Hardly a year goes by when some bumblewit in the CA legislature or a Silly Council member proposes illegal aliens being able to vote for school boards.
Unbelievably when that asshattery comes up for a vote it doesn't pass. I think even the leftys here can see what a slippery slope that would be.
Unbelievably when that asshattery comes up for a vote it doesn't pass. I think even the leftys here can see what a slippery slope that would be.
Posted by: Hank at May 27, 2015 10:53 AM (mb+j8)
187
Ok last time I respond to a comment like this. If you do not UNDERSTAND the topic being debated then don't debate. You don't do yourself or anyone else any favors arguing points that do not match the facts. Educate yourself on the Article V process then argue it for pete's sake.
Mikey NTH has a valid point and it should be included in every debate in these times when we witness the daily abuse of our Constitution.
We wouldn't be in our current situation if we had men of honor in office who recognized the truth and upheld their oaths. Our form of government was designed from the beginning to be only operated successfully by the virtuous.
These days, virtue is not to be found in the powerful who infest DC.
Mikey NTH has a valid point and it should be included in every debate in these times when we witness the daily abuse of our Constitution.
We wouldn't be in our current situation if we had men of honor in office who recognized the truth and upheld their oaths. Our form of government was designed from the beginning to be only operated successfully by the virtuous.
These days, virtue is not to be found in the powerful who infest DC.
Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this sh1t at May 27, 2015 10:54 AM (0HooB)
188
Posted by: Nevergiveup at May 27, 2015 10:53 AM (rDqRv)
What the hell are you talking about? Arguing is what internet comments are for!
What the hell are you talking about? Arguing is what internet comments are for!
Posted by: mynewhandle, being THAT GUY at May 27, 2015 10:54 AM (AkOaV)
189
I do not accept your premises and facts, so please go and fcuk yourself.
Posted by: Mikey NTH - The Outrage Outlet Salutes All Who Have Protected Our American Right To Gripe! at May 27, 2015 10:50 AM (hLRSq)
Lol! Sure whatever Mikey. If you don't like my support for the Constitution that's your prerogative.
Posted by: Mikey NTH - The Outrage Outlet Salutes All Who Have Protected Our American Right To Gripe! at May 27, 2015 10:50 AM (hLRSq)
Lol! Sure whatever Mikey. If you don't like my support for the Constitution that's your prerogative.
Posted by: Arson Wells at May 27, 2015 10:54 AM (UnJ7w)
190
My Amendement idea to ensure the laws are followed: the loser gets to appoint the Attorney General.
Posted by: Jean at May 27, 2015 10:54 AM (ztOda)
191
Btw, it's spelled "fuck", mikey, don't be scared to say it i'm a big boy.
Posted by: Arson Wells at May 27, 2015 10:55 AM (UnJ7w)
192
The Palestinians are trying to get Israel suspended by FIFA and FIFA was actually taking it seriously. Now 7 high muckity Mucks at FIFA are under arrest for Fraud. Karma is OK sometimes
Posted by: Nevergiveup at May 27, 2015 10:55 AM (rDqRv)
193
And, by extension, a simple solution for the tyranny Choom Boy has imposed on us.
Ready for it? Here it is: Enforce the laws now on the books. Enforce the Constitution.
Game, Set, and Match.
Posted by: rickb223 Straight, Conservative Clinger at May 27, 2015 10:52 AM
We have delegated enforcement to a bureaucracy that holds us in contempt. They are abetted by a propaganda apparatus that Lenin would have cut off a nut to have at his disposal. What is the solution when they ignore the law?
Ready for it? Here it is: Enforce the laws now on the books. Enforce the Constitution.
Game, Set, and Match.
Posted by: rickb223 Straight, Conservative Clinger at May 27, 2015 10:52 AM
We have delegated enforcement to a bureaucracy that holds us in contempt. They are abetted by a propaganda apparatus that Lenin would have cut off a nut to have at his disposal. What is the solution when they ignore the law?
Posted by: joncelli, Boned like You at May 27, 2015 10:56 AM (RD7QR)
194
The simple solution to Presidents who refuse to follow the Constitution is to make it easier to impeach them. Allow a recall election by a simple majority of the voters. And establish that it only includes legal voters.
Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at May 27, 2015 10:56 AM (GpgJl)
195
Posted by: Arson Wells at May 27, 2015 10:55 AM (UnJ7w)
The Original Thinker and Proprietor of this Smart Military Blog, ace (pbuh) has asked that we tone down the "f" bombs, thus the "fcuk" construct.
The Original Thinker and Proprietor of this Smart Military Blog, ace (pbuh) has asked that we tone down the "f" bombs, thus the "fcuk" construct.
Posted by: mynewhandle at May 27, 2015 10:56 AM (AkOaV)
196
I'm looking better all the time.
Posted by: Articles of Confederation at May 27, 2015 10:56 AM (evdj2)
197
>>>Apologies, I meant the Supreme Court. Term limits on the supreme court.<<<
You better hurry, - cyborg tech is coming soon and those fcuks will be sporting silicon brains before you can say, "Change my diaper!"
You better hurry, - cyborg tech is coming soon and those fcuks will be sporting silicon brains before you can say, "Change my diaper!"
Posted by: Fritz at May 27, 2015 10:57 AM (UzPAd)
198
The people in power would have no choice but to
abide by it. Are you suggesting that the federal gov't would ignore an
amendment to the Constitution?
Posted by: Arson Wells at May 27, 2015 10:31 AM (UnJ7w)
I've taught my boys not to reason from where things are to where you think they're going, but to reason backwards from a postulate back to where we are now. This helps to avoid having blinders imposed by the current reality preventing one from imagining other possibilities.
So let's assume the Feds would ignore an amendment to Constitution. How would they do it? How would they justify it?
That's easy: they'd attack the legitimacy of the amendment and/or the process that led to it, and claim that they were protecting the Constitution by ignoring the amendment.
abide by it. Are you suggesting that the federal gov't would ignore an
amendment to the Constitution?
Posted by: Arson Wells at May 27, 2015 10:31 AM (UnJ7w)
I've taught my boys not to reason from where things are to where you think they're going, but to reason backwards from a postulate back to where we are now. This helps to avoid having blinders imposed by the current reality preventing one from imagining other possibilities.
So let's assume the Feds would ignore an amendment to Constitution. How would they do it? How would they justify it?
That's easy: they'd attack the legitimacy of the amendment and/or the process that led to it, and claim that they were protecting the Constitution by ignoring the amendment.
Posted by: Jay Guevara at May 27, 2015 10:57 AM (oKE6c)
199
Posted by: Nevergiveup at May 27, 2015 10:55 AM (rDqRv)
I only skimmed the story -- does it look like fraud fraud or just the typical kind of European graft and skimming?
I only skimmed the story -- does it look like fraud fraud or just the typical kind of European graft and skimming?
Posted by: mynewhandle at May 27, 2015 10:57 AM (AkOaV)
200
You better hurry, - cyborg tech is coming soon and those fcuks will be sporting silicon brains before you can say, "Change my diaper!"
You are not of the body.
You are not of the body.
Posted by: Landru at May 27, 2015 10:58 AM (evdj2)
201
If a judge (or judges) tell the Mocha Messiah he is violating the law, let them do what they would do in local criminal cases: send law enforcement officers with handcuffs and jail-cell keys in hand to pay him a visit.
Rinse, repeat with members of Congress.
I'd pay to watch that.
Rinse, repeat with members of Congress.
I'd pay to watch that.
Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this sh1t at May 27, 2015 10:58 AM (0HooB)
202
I too do not support Art V. I just can't see how it will turn out well, since those who will be running it are the same political class that are fucking things up now. Yes, even at the state level.
Personally, I don't believe that there is a political solution to be had. I think we will have to shoot our way out of this mess. Scares the shit out of me, but when in history have the Progressives (in all their various guises) ever given up?
Personally, I don't believe that there is a political solution to be had. I think we will have to shoot our way out of this mess. Scares the shit out of me, but when in history have the Progressives (in all their various guises) ever given up?
Posted by: East Bay KG at May 27, 2015 10:58 AM (uDCdI)
203
The Original Thinker and Proprietor of this Smart Military Blog, ace (pbuh) has asked that we tone down the "f" bombs, thus the "fcuk" construct.
Posted by: mynewhandle at May 27, 2015 10:56 AM (AkOaV)
Alright, then poopy head it is.
Posted by: mynewhandle at May 27, 2015 10:56 AM (AkOaV)
Alright, then poopy head it is.
Posted by: Arson Wells at May 27, 2015 10:58 AM (UnJ7w)
204
I'm looking better all the time.
Posted by: Articles of Confederation at May 27, 2015 10:56 AM (evdj2)
So am I.
Posted by: Articles of Confederation at May 27, 2015 10:56 AM (evdj2)
So am I.
Posted by: Fort Sumter at May 27, 2015 10:58 AM (zF6Iw)
205
Pretty picture thread up.
Posted by: HH at May 27, 2015 10:59 AM (Ce4DF)
206
Posted by: Arson Wells at May 27, 2015 10:55 AM (UnJ7w)
You really do not understand the AoSHQ and its little traditions. Now go take your one-trick pony and run along.
You really do not understand the AoSHQ and its little traditions. Now go take your one-trick pony and run along.
Posted by: Mikey NTH - The Outrage Outlet Salutes All Who Have Protected Our American Right To Gripe! at May 27, 2015 10:59 AM (hLRSq)
207
Scares the shit out of me, but when in history have the Progressives (in all their various guises) ever given up?
Rimadi, last week
Rimadi, last week
Posted by: Jean at May 27, 2015 10:59 AM (ztOda)
208
I only skimmed the story -- does it look like fraud fraud or just the typical kind of European graft and skimming?
Posted by: mynewhandle at May 27, 2015 10:57 AM (AkOaV)
Oh it's real. Outright bribery into the Millions for each Official. I mean nothing new. We all knew that the World Cup and the Olympics were always up for sale.
Posted by: mynewhandle at May 27, 2015 10:57 AM (AkOaV)
Oh it's real. Outright bribery into the Millions for each Official. I mean nothing new. We all knew that the World Cup and the Olympics were always up for sale.
Posted by: Nevergiveup at May 27, 2015 10:59 AM (rDqRv)
209
Posted by: Arson Wells at May 27, 2015 10:58 AM (UnJ7w)
poopy head works, according to the aoshq style guide.
poopy head works, according to the aoshq style guide.
Posted by: mynewhandle at May 27, 2015 11:00 AM (AkOaV)
210
202
I too do not support Art V. I just can't see how it will turn out well,
since those who will be running it are the same political class that are
fucking things up now. Yes, even at the state level.
Personally, I don't believe that there is a political solution to be
had. I think we will have to shoot our way out of this mess. Scares the
shit out of me, but when in history have the Progressives (in all their
various guises) ever given up?
Posted by: East Bay KG at May 27, 2015 10:58 AM (uDCdI)
Don't you think it might just possibly be worthwhile to give an Art V a chance BEFORE going to a bloodbath?
If it doesn't work then it can degenerate to a bloodbath.
I too do not support Art V. I just can't see how it will turn out well,
since those who will be running it are the same political class that are
fucking things up now. Yes, even at the state level.
Personally, I don't believe that there is a political solution to be
had. I think we will have to shoot our way out of this mess. Scares the
shit out of me, but when in history have the Progressives (in all their
various guises) ever given up?
Posted by: East Bay KG at May 27, 2015 10:58 AM (uDCdI)
Don't you think it might just possibly be worthwhile to give an Art V a chance BEFORE going to a bloodbath?
If it doesn't work then it can degenerate to a bloodbath.
Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at May 27, 2015 11:00 AM (GpgJl)
211
190 My Amendment idea to ensure the laws are followed: the loser gets to appoint the Attorney General.
Posted by: Jean at May 27, 2015 10:54 AM (ztOda)
I've suggested that for PBS. If we don't abolish Federal funding for it entirely (choice #1), then at least make sure the damned thing is run by the party that does not currently hold the White House.
Posted by: Jean at May 27, 2015 10:54 AM (ztOda)
I've suggested that for PBS. If we don't abolish Federal funding for it entirely (choice #1), then at least make sure the damned thing is run by the party that does not currently hold the White House.
Posted by: Jay Guevara at May 27, 2015 11:00 AM (oKE6c)
Posted by: Brother Cavil, down with Eph 6:12 at May 27, 2015 11:01 AM (DT3rQ)
213
The simple solution to Presidents who refuse to
follow the Constitution is to make it easier to impeach them. Allow a
recall election by a simple majority of the voters. And establish that
it only includes legal voters. Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at May 27, 2015 10:56 AM
At the moment, Vic, I have no faith in Congress's ability to do ANYTHING "for the good of the country."
That is not a condemnation of the institution. It is a condemnation of the corrupt, self-centered smarmy lackwits who populate it now. Every friggin' one of them.
Which is why I support the more basic, honest route of arresting the lawbreakers, trying them and -- inevitably -- sending them to prison.
Once the Augean Stables have been mucked out, we can go back to niceties like "impeachment." Perhaps at that point it will no longer be so necessary.
follow the Constitution is to make it easier to impeach them. Allow a
recall election by a simple majority of the voters. And establish that
it only includes legal voters. Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at May 27, 2015 10:56 AM
At the moment, Vic, I have no faith in Congress's ability to do ANYTHING "for the good of the country."
That is not a condemnation of the institution. It is a condemnation of the corrupt, self-centered smarmy lackwits who populate it now. Every friggin' one of them.
Which is why I support the more basic, honest route of arresting the lawbreakers, trying them and -- inevitably -- sending them to prison.
Once the Augean Stables have been mucked out, we can go back to niceties like "impeachment." Perhaps at that point it will no longer be so necessary.
Posted by: MrScribbler at May 27, 2015 11:01 AM (P8YHq)
214
I'm not sure this favors the child-rich suburbs and exurbs over the child-poor urban folks.
Posted by: gm at May 27, 2015 11:01 AM (K0tm3)
215
Gotta go, boring meeting over.
Posted by: Jean at May 27, 2015 11:02 AM (ztOda)
216
I wonder if I could register my 3 cats that live at my address?
Posted by: Nevergiveup at May 27, 2015 11:02 AM (rDqRv)
217
>>>>>Here it is: Enforce the laws now on the books. Enforce the Constitution
this and NULLIFICATION
this and NULLIFICATION
Posted by: Bigby's Knuckle Sandwich at May 27, 2015 11:02 AM (QSDju)
218
Don't you think it might just possibly be worthwhile to give an Art V a chance BEFORE going to a bloodbath?
If it doesn't work then it can degenerate to a bloodbath.
Eh, just gives more opportunity for damage. I'd rather have a bloodbath when we're in better shape to recover from it, if we're going to have one at all (and sadly, I suspect we will).
If it doesn't work then it can degenerate to a bloodbath.
Eh, just gives more opportunity for damage. I'd rather have a bloodbath when we're in better shape to recover from it, if we're going to have one at all (and sadly, I suspect we will).
Posted by: Brother Cavil, down with Eph 6:12 at May 27, 2015 11:02 AM (DT3rQ)
219
You really do not understand the AoSHQ and its little traditions. Now go take your one-trick pony and run along.
Posted by: Mikey NTH
I understand and respect the fact that you don't agree with me. But if you think you are going shame me or scare me off from posting here you got another thing coming bud. I'm not the one telling people to go eff themselves just because they disagree with me.
Posted by: Mikey NTH
I understand and respect the fact that you don't agree with me. But if you think you are going shame me or scare me off from posting here you got another thing coming bud. I'm not the one telling people to go eff themselves just because they disagree with me.
Posted by: Arson Wells at May 27, 2015 11:03 AM (UnJ7w)
220
82 And I still say the only way we are going to solve this, and other major issues, without another bloody civil war or a complete collapse aka Road Warrior is to have an Art V convention and fix a lot of this shit caused primarily by Democrats and allowed by Democrat-lite Republicans.
Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at May 27, 2015 10:13 AM (GpgJl)
Yes. There is an Art. V public forum next month at a local pub...to share information on what this entails.
82 And I still say the only way we are going to solve this, and other major issues, without another bloody civil war or a complete collapse aka Road Warrior is to have an Art V convention and fix a lot of this shit caused primarily by Democrats and allowed by Democrat-lite Republicans.
Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at May 27, 2015 10:13 AM (GpgJl)
Yes. There is an Art. V public forum next month at a local pub...to share information on what this entails.
Posted by: Cicero Kaboom! Kid at May 27, 2015 11:04 AM (OpDDu)
221
Posted by: Nevergiveup at May 27, 2015 10:59 AM (rDqRv)
Oh man. Figures though.
Hipsters hardest hit.
Oh man. Figures though.
Hipsters hardest hit.
Posted by: mynewhandle at May 27, 2015 11:05 AM (AkOaV)
Posted by: Grump928(c) remembers the Legion of Amish at May 27, 2015 11:06 AM (evdj2)
223
213 At the moment, Vic, I have no faith in Congress's ability to do ANYTHING "for the good of the country."
That
is not a condemnation of the institution. It is a condemnation of the
corrupt, self-centered smarmy lackwits who populate it now. Every
friggin' one of them.
Which is why I support the more basic,
honest route of arresting the lawbreakers, trying them and -- inevitably
-- sending them to prison.
Once the Augean Stables have been
mucked out, we can go back to niceties like "impeachment." Perhaps at
that point it will no longer be so necessary.
Posted by: MrScribbler at May 27, 2015 11:01 AM (P8YHq)
That is why I said Voters and not congress.
That
is not a condemnation of the institution. It is a condemnation of the
corrupt, self-centered smarmy lackwits who populate it now. Every
friggin' one of them.
Which is why I support the more basic,
honest route of arresting the lawbreakers, trying them and -- inevitably
-- sending them to prison.
Once the Augean Stables have been
mucked out, we can go back to niceties like "impeachment." Perhaps at
that point it will no longer be so necessary.
Posted by: MrScribbler at May 27, 2015 11:01 AM (P8YHq)
That is why I said Voters and not congress.
Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at May 27, 2015 11:06 AM (GpgJl)
224
No it's not.
Posted by: Brother Cavil, down with Eph 6:12 at May 27, 2015 11:01 AM (DT3rQ)
Yu huh!!!!
Posted by: Brother Cavil, down with Eph 6:12 at May 27, 2015 11:01 AM (DT3rQ)
Yu huh!!!!
Posted by: mynewhandle at May 27, 2015 11:06 AM (AkOaV)
225
Given that there are many more children than illegal aliens and felons, I suspect that this will actually shift power to urban zones and, thereby, the Democrats.
Posted by: gm at May 27, 2015 11:06 AM (K0tm3)
226
Does this effect apportionment?
A lot of conservative rural districts in the Southwest are like this, not just the southwest but say Eastern WA, Western KS, practically every Republican district in California.
This sounds bad for Texas my native state, and bad for what is left of Conservatism in the Pacific Northwest. Btw the Latino voters in many of these districts are often to the right of many Republicans on issues like guns, environmental rules, etc purely by being rural voters.
Anyway, I thought the 3/5ths rule clearly indicated that the entire population was the basis for this, not eligible voters. all those 3/5ths of a person speaches get that wrong though, slaves shouldn't have been counted at all, but since they were I think we can say without doubt what the constitution means.
A lot of conservative rural districts in the Southwest are like this, not just the southwest but say Eastern WA, Western KS, practically every Republican district in California.
This sounds bad for Texas my native state, and bad for what is left of Conservatism in the Pacific Northwest. Btw the Latino voters in many of these districts are often to the right of many Republicans on issues like guns, environmental rules, etc purely by being rural voters.
Anyway, I thought the 3/5ths rule clearly indicated that the entire population was the basis for this, not eligible voters. all those 3/5ths of a person speaches get that wrong though, slaves shouldn't have been counted at all, but since they were I think we can say without doubt what the constitution means.
Posted by: RoyL at May 27, 2015 11:07 AM (wdHQo)
227
Don't you think it might just possibly be worthwhile to give an Art V a chance BEFORE going to a bloodbath?
If it doesn't work then it can degenerate to a bloodbath.
Eh, just gives more opportunity for damage. I'd rather have a
bloodbath when we're in better shape to recover from it, if we're going
to have one at all (and sadly, I suspect we will).
The other problem is that an Article V convention could just mitigate some of the minor problems while leaving some of the most egregious ones extant. That would delegitimize further opposition. ("See? You got what you wanted.")
If it doesn't work then it can degenerate to a bloodbath.
Eh, just gives more opportunity for damage. I'd rather have a
bloodbath when we're in better shape to recover from it, if we're going
to have one at all (and sadly, I suspect we will).
The other problem is that an Article V convention could just mitigate some of the minor problems while leaving some of the most egregious ones extant. That would delegitimize further opposition. ("See? You got what you wanted.")
Posted by: Jay Guevara at May 27, 2015 11:07 AM (oKE6c)
228
Posted by: Jay Guevara at May 27, 2015 11:07 AM (oKE6c)
The one pro to an article V convention would be seeing Mika and Barbara Walters and all of the others shrieking at how extremist conservatives are.
"Can you believe it -- they say they love the constitution, and now they're trying to change it!!! oh my god!!! ahhhh!!!!"
The one pro to an article V convention would be seeing Mika and Barbara Walters and all of the others shrieking at how extremist conservatives are.
"Can you believe it -- they say they love the constitution, and now they're trying to change it!!! oh my god!!! ahhhh!!!!"
Posted by: mynewhandle at May 27, 2015 11:11 AM (AkOaV)
229
Contra some comments here.
Illegals, and resident aliens, were always counted in the US census, even before the Democratic party existed.
Also counted were indians who did not live on reserves, even though they were not eligible to vote.
Illegals, and resident aliens, were always counted in the US census, even before the Democratic party existed.
Also counted were indians who did not live on reserves, even though they were not eligible to vote.
Posted by: RoyL at May 27, 2015 11:11 AM (wdHQo)
230
Don't you think it might just possibly be worthwhile to give an Art V a chance BEFORE going to a bloodbath?
If it doesn't work then it can degenerate to a bloodbath.
Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at May 27, 2015 11:00 AM (GpgJl)
Well, if I had any faith at all that there was a smidgen of a chance of it succeeding, sure...
But part of my pessimism is the acknowledgement that power gets what power wants, unless it is forced into a different direction. And I'm not persuaded that more political maneuverings will do the trick.
I mean, witness how the entire political establishment (including the GOP) continually revisits the amnesty bullshit even though the issue polls very badly and always gets stiff opposition from voters. They've got power and want more of it, and by golly, they will work to get it until they do.
If it doesn't work then it can degenerate to a bloodbath.
Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at May 27, 2015 11:00 AM (GpgJl)
Well, if I had any faith at all that there was a smidgen of a chance of it succeeding, sure...
But part of my pessimism is the acknowledgement that power gets what power wants, unless it is forced into a different direction. And I'm not persuaded that more political maneuverings will do the trick.
I mean, witness how the entire political establishment (including the GOP) continually revisits the amnesty bullshit even though the issue polls very badly and always gets stiff opposition from voters. They've got power and want more of it, and by golly, they will work to get it until they do.
Posted by: East Bay KG at May 27, 2015 11:12 AM (uDCdI)
231
I gotta come down on the "voters only" side of the situation, if only to remove the illegals from the count. Plus it would encourage both the state and the federal governments try to keep a very accurate count of voters and that helps fight voter fraud.
So yeah, Democrats clearly are gonna come down on the other side of the issue.
So yeah, Democrats clearly are gonna come down on the other side of the issue.
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at May 27, 2015 11:12 AM (39g3+)
232
229 Illegals, and resident aliens, were always counted in the US census, even before the Democratic party existed.
Also counted were indians who did not live on reserves, even though they were not eligible to vote.
Posted by: RoyL at May 27, 2015 11:11 AM (wdHQo)
Got a link or other proof. Illegals were not counted until the Dems passed it.
Also counted were indians who did not live on reserves, even though they were not eligible to vote.
Posted by: RoyL at May 27, 2015 11:11 AM (wdHQo)
Got a link or other proof. Illegals were not counted until the Dems passed it.
Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at May 27, 2015 11:13 AM (GpgJl)
233
Darkly amusing. "Equal protection".
Let the august, venerated institution ponder this profound question, while gazing upon the farce that they have already created:
"affirmative action"
"protected classes"
compelling citizens to buy services mangled and mis-regulated by the state ("tax")
Let the august, venerated institution ponder this profound question, while gazing upon the farce that they have already created:
"affirmative action"
"protected classes"
compelling citizens to buy services mangled and mis-regulated by the state ("tax")
Posted by: rhomboid at May 27, 2015 11:13 AM (QDnY+)
234
When George Mason insisted that there be more than one way to amend the Constitution he had the people in mind. I'm certain Congress will not agree to reform and fix itself. The Article V solution is not perfect but it at least gives the state legislatures a say in how the government is run. I agree with everyone that says the laws aren't being followed right now so why try. But short of a revolution Article V is the only legal shot we have at changing things on a fundamental level Constitution wise.
Posted by: Arson Wells at May 27, 2015 11:17 AM (UnJ7w)
235
The very conditions/patterns that make the Article V approach seem needed are the reasons such an approach has little chance of accomplishing anything.
Laws and constitutional mechanisms are not self-enforcing. Generate as much paper as you want. Not gonna change a thing.
Laws and constitutional mechanisms are not self-enforcing. Generate as much paper as you want. Not gonna change a thing.
Posted by: rhomboid at May 27, 2015 11:23 AM (QDnY+)
236
Let's suppose someone has some hand babies. Will each of those babies be given a vote?
Asking for a friend.
Asking for a friend.
Posted by: JackStraw at May 27, 2015 11:23 AM (g1DWB)
237
I know you're all dying to get my take on this ... so here goes.
I don't think an Article V will change a damned thing.
Firstly , the Feds will ignore it. The Judiciary, whose first priority is to always look "in control", will rule that the Feds can ignore it ... because they can't do a damn thing about it.
And most importantly .... the American Public will screw it up ... because we, collectively, has grown incapable of self rule.
I've come to the conclusion that a Republic, a Constitution, Rule of Law, and all the rest are meaningless now because the American People wish to be serfs.
Until WE, YOU and I, can separate ourselves from THEM, everything else is moot.
I don't think an Article V will change a damned thing.
Firstly , the Feds will ignore it. The Judiciary, whose first priority is to always look "in control", will rule that the Feds can ignore it ... because they can't do a damn thing about it.
And most importantly .... the American Public will screw it up ... because we, collectively, has grown incapable of self rule.
I've come to the conclusion that a Republic, a Constitution, Rule of Law, and all the rest are meaningless now because the American People wish to be serfs.
Until WE, YOU and I, can separate ourselves from THEM, everything else is moot.
Posted by: ScoggDog at May 27, 2015 11:26 AM (8nAzo)
238
Laws and constitutional mechanisms are not self-enforcing. Generate as much paper as you want. Not gonna change a thing.
Posted by: rhomboid at May 27, 2015 11:23 AM (QDnY+)
That's true, but I think you could form the proposed amendments in a way that would take cooperation from the top to be effective. Circumvent them if you will.
Posted by: rhomboid at May 27, 2015 11:23 AM (QDnY+)
That's true, but I think you could form the proposed amendments in a way that would take cooperation from the top to be effective. Circumvent them if you will.
Posted by: Arson Wells at May 27, 2015 11:26 AM (UnJ7w)
239
It's just like with religious freedom laws. Liberals were A-Okay with these laws when it's talking about some Native American taking peyote, but if it's a Christian not wanting to be forced to offer the morning after pill?
Same with "one person, one vote", when it benefits urban areas, how could anyone be against such an idea. But if it hurts liberal enclaves, suddenly they never supported such a crazy idea.
We have always been at war with Oceania.
Same with "one person, one vote", when it benefits urban areas, how could anyone be against such an idea. But if it hurts liberal enclaves, suddenly they never supported such a crazy idea.
We have always been at war with Oceania.
Posted by: McAdams at May 27, 2015 11:36 AM (jlfpP)
240
Also counted were indians who did not live on reserves, even though they were not eligible to vote.
Posted by: RoyL at May 27, 2015 11:11 AM (wdHQo)
Ehh... sort of. Not sure who could vote or not, but Article 1 Section 2 ...
Representatives and direct taxes shall be apportioned among the several states which may be included within this union, according to their respective numbers, which shall be determined by adding to the whole number of free persons, including those bound to service for a term of years, and excluding Indians not taxed, three fifths of all other Persons.
Posted by: RoyL at May 27, 2015 11:11 AM (wdHQo)
Ehh... sort of. Not sure who could vote or not, but Article 1 Section 2 ...
Representatives and direct taxes shall be apportioned among the several states which may be included within this union, according to their respective numbers, which shall be determined by adding to the whole number of free persons, including those bound to service for a term of years, and excluding Indians not taxed, three fifths of all other Persons.
Posted by: mynewhandle at May 27, 2015 11:36 AM (AkOaV)
241
Make all those ineligible to vote count as 3/5th of those that could and watch heads of left explode. It would not make a difference, person vs voter as the districts will still be gerrymandered to give one party the seat for 10 years if not 50 years.
Posted by: TJ at May 27, 2015 11:37 AM (Z/8NL)
242
Should be "One Tax Payer, One Vote"
Posted by: jcurran at May 27, 2015 12:21 PM (7+tbn)
243
"What if districting was made in proportion to the vote? Census-taking can be quite error-prone. How's about saying, "You don't count toward the political process unless you vote." Now we know actual vote counting can be verified and is about as close as we will get to tracking countable citizens. Not perfect but the best we'll get.
I imagine that might get a few more people into the voting booth because, in this case, your vote does matter no matter who wins an election.
Just an interesting concept to contemplate.
Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at May 27, 2015 09:58 AM"
Yes, a very interesting idea indeed.
I imagine that might get a few more people into the voting booth because, in this case, your vote does matter no matter who wins an election.
Just an interesting concept to contemplate.
Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at May 27, 2015 09:58 AM"
Yes, a very interesting idea indeed.
Posted by: sock_rat_eez at May 27, 2015 03:44 PM (S0bOl)
244
Got to go with the idea it is based on residents not voters. The Founders allowed for women to be counted without getting the vote.
That said, deport several million people and render it moot.
That said, deport several million people and render it moot.
Posted by: Chris Balsz at May 27, 2015 08:46 PM (L19NA)
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