Saturday Politics Thread: Immigration, Part Two [Y-not]

Good morning, horde! Today we'll continue exploring one of the trickiest (and most depressing) of the issues facing conservatives today: immigration.

Last week we had a brief "history lesson" on how U.S. immigration policies have evolved over the past 50 years. We also looked at a snapshot of the illegal immigration population, including which states have the largest populations of illegals.

In trying to decide how to proceed with our candidate evaluations, I decided that it might be most helpful to start with their reactions to Obama's manufactured border crisis. My rationale was that this would be the best way to come up with a head to head comparison given that many of our GOP prospects had limited experience with illegal immigration prior to last year. Of course, the challenge here is that, with the exception of Jeb Bush, most GOP hopefuls are starting to talk tougher now that the primary season is underway. Whether or not their tough talk matches their previous statements and records (I'm looking at YOU, Scott Walker) will be left for later posts.

I'm going to do my best to pull from a variety of sources and to identify what, if any, bias I think any given source has. Feel free to jump in with any information you have about the sources and candidates.

In addition, I've decided to widen the scope of these evaluations to include thoroughly unpalatable (and yet "serious contender") candidates like Jeb Bush. The reason is simple: we have got to confront the Worst Case Scenario. If we don't, we are going to let the perfect become the enemy of the good while we try to decide which of the conservative candidates we favor.

One last thing, as you know, a couple of months ago when I did the "candidate mid-terms" post, I let you all know that my top four candidates are Cruz, Jindal, Perry, and Nikki Haley. It's also no secret that stopping (and reversing) illegal immigration is a top issue for me. That said, I don't know that any of my favorite candidates, including Cruz, measure up to my ideal on this topic. I'm still evaluating them. So there is no reason for me to egg the pudding and try to sell you on one of these guys over any of the others. (You can trust me!)

Last November, the Conservative Review published a roundup of many of the GOP hopefuls' reactions to Obama's border crisis. I follow the Conservative Review's Daniel Horowitz on Twitter (you should, too) and I think he's a Ted Cruz backer (or leaner, perhaps), so bear that in mind.

Based on this roundup of reactions, I'd say that Chris Christie's response was the worst:

Christie, in his usual blunt fashion, said he's said enough on illegal immigration in the past and didn't want to talk about it now. The Daily Mail reports:
"New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie refused to engage on the subject of illegal immigration at all, saying as he had several times in the past, that he would make his views on federal issues known when and if he runs for president.
But he did come out swinging against Republicans in Congress floating a government shut down unless Democrats go along with their plan to bar immigration agencies from using federal funds to support Obama's edict.
'It's incumbent upon everybody in Washington, D.C., to do their jobs. And running the government is their job,' Christie said. 'All this kind of hysteria about shutdowns to me is just people who can make news.'"

That's some real leadership there. SMDH

Jeb Bush and Mike Huckabee, who are both widely thought of as being soft on illegal immigration, at least took the time to criticize the president, even if their own solutions are probably not much better than Obama's executive amnesty.

I though Rand Paul's response was rather weak:

Rand Paul's reaction to the President's amnesty executive action was to counsel his colleagues to "pass some things", the Washington Post reported.
"Two Republicans who are mulling presidential bids, Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.) and Sen. Rob Portman (R-Ohio), cautioned their colleagues to focus on fighting the policy, rather than on fiery rebuttals that could alienate the voters the party must woo in 2016.
'Pass some things,' Paul said, when asked about how the party should react. He suggested an expansion of work visas as an example of one potential piece of legislation."

Both Governors Jindal and Walker were highly critical of the President's power grab. Jindal called it "arrogance" and Walker called it "incredibly audacious."

Follow the link for the complete roundup from the Conservative Review.

I think I liked Ted Cruz's reaction best:

Ted Cruz: Senator Cruz took to POLITICO to write about what congress should do in the wake of Obama's executive order. Cruz laid out two key ways to fight back. The first is to refuse to confirm virtually all of Obama's nominees until amnesty is rescinded. The second is to use the power of the purse to refuse to fund Obama's amnesty. Cruz sums up what is at stake:
"Of course, these confrontations are not desirable, and it is unbecoming for an American president to show such condescension towards the voters.
The American people, however, are not powerless. They have elected a new Congress full of members who have promised in their campaigns to stand up to this lawless President and stop the amnesty. We must honor our commitments. If the president will not respect the people, Congress must."

Here's a link to Senator Cruz's column in Politico, which is entitled Obama Is Not a Monarch.

It's been half a year since Obama opened the flood gates to illegal aliens. What have the GOP hopefuls said since then? Are any of the 2016 prospects still talking about illegal immigration and immigration more generally? I'd like to examine that in more depth next week, but for now I'll just update you on a couple of challenges to Obama's amnesty.

As of January of this year, the Hill was reporting that two dozen states were suing Obama over executive amnesty. (That number rose to 26 a couple of weeks later.)

Most of the governors we're interested in are participating in the lawsuit against the Administration. Sadly, New Mexico filed a brief in defense of the Administration. However, I do not think that originated with Governor Martinez, who opposes amnesty and has been trying to repeal the drivers license measure her predecessor enacted in her state. Governor Martinez did not sign the brief in support of Obama. It was signed by Democrat Hector H. Balderas, New Mexico's Attorney General. I think this highlights the challenges Martinez faces in a purple state.

Earlier this month, 113 lawmakers signed a brief in support of the states' suit against Obama:

The Republicans, including Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (Ky.) and House Judiciary Committee Chairman Bob Goodlatte (Va.), are siding squarely with the states, arguing Obama's executive action "changes the law and sets a new policy, exceeding the executive's constitutional authority and disrupting the delicate balance of powers."
"Congress has created a comprehensive immigration scheme -- which expresses its desired policy as to classes of immigrants -- but the class identified by the [Homeland Security Department] directive for categorical relief is unsupported by this scheme," the lawmakers wrote in an amicus brief filed with the 5th Circuit Court of Appeals in New Orleans.
"Instead of setting enforcement priorities," they added, "it created a class-based program that establishes eligibility requirements that, if met, grant unlawful immigrants a renewable lawful presence in the United States and substantive benefits."
The brief was endorsed by 113 Republicans, including Sens. John Cornyn (Texas), the majority whip, and Ted Cruz (Texas), a 2016 presidential hopeful. In the House, the supporters include Reps. Trey Gowdy (S.C.); Tom Price (Ga.); Michael McCaul (Texas), head of the Homeland Security Committee; and Lamar Smith (R-Texas), the former head of the Judiciary panel.

Senator Marco Rubio also signed the brief. Senator Rand Paul did not.

Next week, I'll try to untangle more of the candidates' recent statements on immigration.

Looks like I picked the wrong month to stop sniffing glue.

Posted by: Open Blogger at 08:27 AM

Comments

(Jump to bottom of comments)

1 Note it is a solid South suing that bastard in the WH.

Posted by: Gmac- Pulling in feelers in preperation... at May 23, 2015 08:28 AM (4CRfK)

2 Hollywood heavyweight Robert De Niro delivered a heavy dose of reality to graduates of New York University's Tisch School of the Arts -- telling them, "You made it. And, you're f-ked."

Posted by: Reddy KiloWatt at May 23, 2015 08:28 AM (e8kgV)

3 All the GOP candidates have bad positions on immigration.

Posted by: Kreplach at May 23, 2015 08:29 AM (dvoaF)

4 Note it is a solid South suing that bastard in the WH.
______

Which is automatically racist. Now let me tell you about Hilary's firm but sensual knee.

Posted by: WSJ Reporter at May 23, 2015 08:30 AM (DznSp)

5 >>All the GOP candidates have bad positions on immigration.

We haven't gotten to it yet, but I like what Walker has said -- recently. I'm just not sure I trust him.

Posted by: Y-not at May 23, 2015 08:31 AM (RWGcK)

6 It also appears that our Yankee brethren are supporters of the new underclass of imported aliens seeing as those states are where a vast majority of the illegals are located.

Posted by: Gmac- Pulling in feelers in preperation... at May 23, 2015 08:31 AM (4CRfK)

7 Crap, and who are also filling briefs in support of those actions.

Posted by: Gmac- Pulling in feelers in preperation... at May 23, 2015 08:33 AM (4CRfK)

8 Evolved in the political sense always means gets worse or sells out

Posted by: TheQuietMan at May 23, 2015 08:34 AM (DiZBp)

9 Ben Franklin on Humility (and some crafty advice on persuasion)

From his autobiography:

My list of virtues contain'd at first but twelve; but a Quaker friend having kindly informed me that I was generally thought proud; that my pride show'd itself frequently in conversation; that I was not content with being in the right when discussing any point, but was overbearing, and rather insolent, of which he convinc'd me by mentioning several instances; I determined endeavouring to cure myself, if I could, of this vice or folly among the rest, and I added Humility to my list, giving an extensive meaning to the word.

I cannot boast of much success in acquiring the reality of this virtue, but I had a good deal with regard to the appearance of it. I made it a rule to forbear all direct contradiction to the sentiments of others, and all positive assertion of my own. I even forbid myself, agreeably to the old laws of our Junto, the use of every word or expression in the language that imported a fix'd opinion, such as certainly, undoubtedly, etc., and I adopted, instead of them, I conceive, I apprehend, or I imagine a thing to be so or so; or it so appears to me at present. When another asserted something that I thought an error, I deny'd myself the pleasure of contradicting him abruptly, and of showing immediately some absurdity in his proposition; and in answering I began by observing that in certain cases or circumstances his opinion would be right, but in the present case there appear'd or seem'd to me some difference, etc. I soon found the advantage of this change in my manner; the conversations I engag'd in went on more pleasantly. The modest way in which I propos'd my opinions procur'd them a readier reception and less contradiction; I had less mortification when I was found to be in the wrong, and I more easily prevail'd with others to give up their mistakes and join with me when I happened to be in the right.

Posted by: Francis Gary Powers at May 23, 2015 08:38 AM (e8kgV)

10 I suggest we be careful of the terms we use.

Specify we oppose illegal immigration, which is migration.

We perhaps want to reform legal immigration.

The amnesty folks and their allies like to use the one word immigration.

Posted by: eman at May 23, 2015 08:39 AM (MQEz6)

11 After thirty-five years support for the Republican party, I am now perforce a single issue voter. My support and vote in this cycle will be dictated solely on the candidate's position on immigration- illegal and otherwise. If the party elites succeed in nominating a CoC pleasing squish, I'm done. Permanently.

My only political activity at that point will be to continue to build my stocks of ammo barbed wire.

Posted by: Alamo at May 23, 2015 08:41 AM (E/XIS)

12 I knew I shouldn't have quit drinking last night, heading back out to the lab.., er shop to make things that go vroom, and some that go boom. Did I mention there's a fridge with massive quantities of alcohol there? I didn't, well don't tell anyone, it's a secret lab.. er... fridge.

BBL, ya'll don't trash the joint.

PS... How do I send garden pics to you Y-not?

Posted by: Gmac- Pulling in feelers in preperation... at May 23, 2015 08:42 AM (4CRfK)

13 On Wednesday, the U.S. Office of the Director of National Intelligence released a slew of documents relating to the 2011 raid that killed Osama Bin Laden. Among much else, the documents revealed that Noam Chomsky, 9/11 conspiracy nuts and some guy who claims to have traced the ancestral lineage of the Illuminati were among the authors gracing Bin Laden's English-language book collection.

The al-Qaida boss also kept plenty of pornography on hand for his viewing pleasure while he was holed up in Pakistan. However, government bureaucrats say they won't be releasing this historically important treasure trove of smut.

"We have no plans to release that at this point in time," National Intelligence spokesman Brian Hale said, according to The Washington Post. "Due to the nature of the content, the decision was made not to release it."

... surely, this is a copyright issue

Posted by: Ron Jeremy at May 23, 2015 08:42 AM (e8kgV)

14 I suggest we be careful of the terms we use.

Specify we oppose illegal immigration, which is migration.

--

I agree, in general. However, Scott Walker has (quite properly imho) raised the issue of limiting legal immigration while the jobless rate for Americans remains high, so that's why I'm using the broader term.

Posted by: Y-not at May 23, 2015 08:42 AM (RWGcK)

15 Orange and Turtle want amnesty just as badly as the most rabid La Raza member.

Posted by: eman at May 23, 2015 08:43 AM (MQEz6)

16 ammo AND barbed wire.

Posted by: Alamo at May 23, 2015 08:43 AM (E/XIS)

17 >>How do I send garden pics to you Y-not?

If you're on twitter, I'm @moxiemom.

If not, there's a g ma i l account, bailesworth. Remind me of your HQ handle and let me know your gardening zone. Might not get to it until next week.

Gardening thread should go up around 12:30 today, unless something interferes with that.

Posted by: Y-not at May 23, 2015 08:45 AM (RWGcK)

18 The only immigration policy that is acceptable is to dramatically curtail legal immigration by 75% and change the nature of it to one that favors this nations historical immigration pools Europe, throw in select African and Asian countries and tie it all to demonstrable ability to not be a burden on this countries social services and safety nets.

Shit can the idea of family reunification and "refugee" status as a criteria for immigration.

Here's a fun fact the same country that has the highest level of legal immigration, Mexico, is also the country where most of the illegal immigration comes from.

Make it impossible to operate in this country if you are here illegally.

Posted by: Kreplach at May 23, 2015 08:45 AM (dvoaF)

19
14 I suggest we be careful of the terms we use.

Specify we oppose illegal immigration, which is migration.

--

I agree, in general. However, Scott Walker has (quite properly imho) raised the issue of limiting legal immigration while the jobless rate for Americans remains high, so that's why I'm using the broader term.
Posted by: Y-not at May 23, 2015 08:42 AM (RWGcK)

I understand, but I think we have to spell it out everytime this subject comes up because the Left wants to use our words against us.

Always point out their are two kinds of immigration and specify which one you mean.

Posted by: eman at May 23, 2015 08:47 AM (MQEz6)

20 To hear our black, democratically elected president tell it, our dystopian nation is a hellhole of virulent racism. Thus, every thought, word or action that is critical of the president, and those who peddle racial victimhood and entitlement, is inherently racist. This is the rationale of a leftist, of a simpleton, because there is far too much history and evidence to the contrary to entertain it as serious. No nation on Earth more consciously ensures equality of treatment than ours.

So, if it's not race that divides us, what is it? In a word, culture.

Posted by: Kevin Decker at May 23, 2015 08:49 AM (e8kgV)

21 I understand, but I think we have to spell it out everytime this subject comes up because the Left wants to use our words against us.

Always point out their are two kinds of immigration and specify which one you mean.
---

One advantage Cruz, Jindal, Rubio, Haley, and Martinez have talking about this issue. The Left can try to accuse them of racism, but most persuadable voters can see through that.

I sure wish Haley and Martinez were running... and that Rubio hadn't rendered himself untrustworthy.

Posted by: Y-not at May 23, 2015 08:50 AM (RWGcK)

22 Easy solution to illegal immigration: We are a country of laws, not men. If you enter this country illegally, the INS will collect biometric data and you will never achieve legal status. Problem solved.

Posted by: Alamo at May 23, 2015 08:50 AM (E/XIS)

23 Obama has plans in the works to resettle all those Rohingya here. This was brought up in the state dept. briefing last week.

Posted by: Ben Had at May 23, 2015 08:52 AM (ZBp0t)

24 I had missed that, Ben.

Here's an article from an Australian perspective:

Calls for Rohingya to be resettled underestimate problem http://gu.com/p/496zd/stw

Posted by: Y-not at May 23, 2015 08:55 AM (RWGcK)

25 In the Great Depression (1929ish onward) no immigration was permitted. I say the doors stay closed until we hit the total number employed during the high point of Bush #2 years.

Guest workers? Sure, but they pay taxes, even into social security (with employer matching contribution) like every American worker pays. But they can never collect a dime till they get in line, and earn citizenship, if and when the window opens again.

Posted by: Name Withheld Upon Request at May 23, 2015 09:04 AM (xQX/f)

26
24 I had missed that, Ben.

Here's an article from an Australian perspective:

Calls for Rohingya to be resettled underestimate problem http://gu.com/p/496zd/stw
Posted by: Y-not at May 23, 2015 08:55 AM (RWGcK)

Thousands of refugees who may not all be refugees and may not be who they say they are, and millions like them wait to enter the flood, and nasty fucktard countries turn the crank.

Welcome to Earth.

Posted by: eman at May 23, 2015 09:05 AM (MQEz6)

27 What is the Democratic backup plan for when Hillary! self destructs?

I think it is Precedent for Life Obama. Elections cancelled due to a lack of meaningful choice for the people - martial law invoked to quiet the ensuing protests. Guns collected to insure the domestic tranquility. Re-education camps.

A bullet in the head if you fight turning your guns in - or typhus in the camps - pick your poison - its the leftist way.

Posted by: Underground Nuclear Tests at May 23, 2015 09:08 AM (cvpq2)

28 Warren is lining up to replace Hillary.

Posted by: eman at May 23, 2015 09:10 AM (MQEz6)

29 People talk about controlling immigration, but they don't take into account the reality of the situation.

Seal the borders? That would be a neat trick, but not something that realistically can be done.

What can be done is knowing who is a U.S. citizen and who isn't. American Express knows who is a cardholder and who isn't. Sure, there is identity theft and fraud at certain points, but it gets exposed. The task of having a record of legitimate citizens is far more doable than physically keeping people out.

From this base of knowing who our citizens are, flows everything else. Jobs, medical care, welfare, licenses, property ownership, etc. all are tied to citizenship. If the tax code was changed to reflect the status of citizenship (i.e. The Fair Tax Plan), it would benefit citizens to have permanent resident aliens here paying the sales tax while not receiving the prebate or other services.

As conservatives, we should accept the reality that, short of establishing a police state, we cannot control our borders to the point it would make a difference with the illegal aliens. We can, however, control who gets into the exclusive club of who gains U.S. citizenship.

We need to fight the fights that can be won.

Posted by: jwest at May 23, 2015 09:12 AM (9ZZd+)

30 Hello everyone from Way Down Here at the Broadbeach Blues festival

Great music, plenty of good wine and food and the Old Aussie Bloke is snoring away *just after 11pm Saturday night here*

I've been away from news stuff but one thing that I heard the other day - we should take in the illegal immigrants on boats from Burma , the Rohingha Muslims kicked out by the Burmese - only problem, there are heaps of poor Bangladeshis looking for work on the boats and also the boats are no where near OZ - yet some people here
think it's our job to rescue them and bring them all here? ??

Posted by: aussie at May 23, 2015 09:17 AM (st0IT)

31 aussie- At least your PM has said not only NO, but Hell NO.

Posted by: Ben Had at May 23, 2015 09:20 AM (ZBp0t)

32 Just wrote a long reply and hit some button and it all disappeared.

Six hour drive. I am outa here.

Posted by: Nip Sip at May 23, 2015 09:22 AM (M5Pt7)

33 The motions that would be needed to reverse illegal immigration would be something that would kill an ongoing campaign. Better to be silent as its a loaded question to begin with. It's doable, but would require coordination and essential leadership in key roles to pull it off. After Chicago jesus, the American people have shown they can put up with alot, so no backlash would occur.

One of the (many) paradoxes of the left is that the more you balkanize a country through the actions to gain new voters, the harder it is to enforce their BS on people. Pass all the laws you want, but good luck enforcing them on diversified groups who despise you and yours.

Posted by: Buckeye Abroad at May 23, 2015 09:23 AM (J2i9O)

34 I think the easiest way to stop immigration is to stop paying people to sneak in. If these "new citizens" we're not rewarded with free housing, EPT cards, and free healthcare, it would it be so enticing to get here and it would not cost us so much. Also, any family of people who break laws or try to join ISIS get instantly deported along with the offenders.

Posted by: Chilling the most at May 23, 2015 09:23 AM (zW5rQ)

35 >>>>>appears that our Yankee brethren are supporters of the new underclass of imported aliens

looks mixed to me. out west is solidly for it

Posted by: Bigby's Knuckle Sandwich at May 23, 2015 09:24 AM (PUCB4)

36 De Niro is right: My wife just showed me a yearbook pic of an idiot teen girl. Her caption:
"I would create equal rights for women, such as equal pay, jobs for women, and I would end women [sic] suffrage."
I would end THAT women's suffrage.

Posted by: Brave Sir Robin at May 23, 2015 09:24 AM (5buP8)

37 the Rohingha Muslims kicked out by the Burmese

From the pics I saw a couple hundred males. I seem to vaguely remember some minor incident where only 19 muslin males brought the USA to a standstill.

I like your PM. Good call.

Posted by: Name Withheld Upon Request at May 23, 2015 09:25 AM (xQX/f)

38 Let's just call them what they are: Undocumented Democrats.

Posted by: Brave Sir Robin at May 23, 2015 09:25 AM (5buP8)

39 Posted by: jwest at May 23, 2015 09:12 AM (9ZZd+)

And why is it that the borders cannot be sealed?

The East Germans did it with a lot fewer resources than the United States has available.

Israel has done it against a much more determined group and it seems to have significantly reduced illegal cross border activity.

In 1942 the United States decided to build the Al-Can Highway. In nine months trucks were traveling from the Lower 48 to Alaska. That was a much more challenging project than building a fence along the southern border.

Building a fence is not the answer to all immigration issues and it does not solve every problem but it is something that cannot be lied about. If politicians lie to you about enforcement, deportations or amnesty how can you tell? Whether or not there is a physical wall built from the Gulf of Mexico to the Pacific Ocean is something that it is obvious when politicians lie about it.

Posted by: Obnoxious A-Hole at May 23, 2015 09:25 AM (QHgTq)

40 Heh, sorry: "woman's."

Posted by: Brave Sir Robin at May 23, 2015 09:26 AM (5buP8)

41 31 Ben Had

Hi and yes but the bleeding heart brigade are working hard to change things

And I do have sympathy for the Bangladeshis who want jobs but come here the correct way by applying for immigration

Posted by: aussie at May 23, 2015 09:27 AM (st0IT)

42 And I do have sympathy for the Bangladeshis who want jobs but come here the correct way by applying for immigration

I always make it a point to tip out maids in the hotels I stay in. Lots of Guatemalan's end up in those jobs. True working poor. A few extra bucks can make a big difference in their world.

Posted by: Brave Sir Robin at May 23, 2015 09:32 AM (5buP8)

43 "30
Hello everyone from Way Down Here at the Broadbeach Blues festival

Great music, plenty of good wine and food and the Old Aussie Bloke is snoring away *just after 11pm Saturday night here*

I've been away from news stuff but one thing that I heard the other
day - we should take in the illegal immigrants on boats from Burma , the
Rohingha Muslims kicked out by the Burmese - only problem, there are
heaps of poor Bangladeshis looking for work on the boats and also the
boats are no where near OZ - yet some people here

think it's our job to rescue them and bring them all here? ??

Posted by: aussie at May 23, 2015 09:17 AM (st0IT)"

Hi aussie
I haven't seen you in a while.

The solution to refugees in leaky boats seems to me to be pretty straightforward. The humane, decent and Christian thing to do is to rescue them. However there is no duty to settle them in Australia or the United States. Since the government of pretty much every country is going to object strongly to taking in the refugees, the solution would seem to be to transport them to a country with no government.

Take them to Somalia.

Posted by: Obnoxious A-Hole at May 23, 2015 09:33 AM (QHgTq)

44 "Also, any family of people who break laws or try to join ISIS get instantly deported along with the offenders."

Errrrrrrrrrm no. Sorry.

You lot thought that you could throw people off welfare for provably using narcotics and/or committing felony crimes. We begged to differ. You lot argued that people illegally in the country, who were committing a crime merely by their presence, had no right to access public services such as free education. Again we begged to differ.

We won those arguments. We'll win this one too.

Emanations and penumbras, you see.

Posted by: Black-Robed Radicals On The Federal Bench at May 23, 2015 09:34 AM (noWW6)

45 Definitely OT

Google or Bing the Backsliders - my very favourite band - drummer is Rob Hirst (ex Midnight Oil )

Saw them yesterday and today *bloody awesome*

Nighty night everyone and have a great yesterday!

Posted by: aussie at May 23, 2015 09:35 AM (st0IT)

46 "And I do have sympathy for the Bangladeshis who want jobs but come here the correct way by applying for immigration"

Just bear in mind as you do so that Bangladesh is actually one of the most radicalized countries within the Islamosphere. They don't kick up as much trouble as other places simply because the country is as poor as dirt. But the belief in violence as a wholly justified tool of religious faith is *quite* high among Bangladeshis.

Posted by: torquewrench at May 23, 2015 09:36 AM (noWW6)

47 Jeb has the "crazy cat lady" theory of immigration. Poor kitties, then the cops are cleaning out the house full of dangerous feral cats and the house has to be razed because the litterbox smell is intolerable.

I used that metaphor yesterday and I think it holds up pretty well.

Posted by: mustbequantum at May 23, 2015 09:37 AM (MIKMs)

48 "And why is it that the borders cannot be sealed?"
Posted by: Obnoxious A-Hole at May 23, 2015 09:25 AM (QHgTq)

Even if we went the extreme of having an East German style society, shooting people attempting to get over the wall or fence, that fails to take into account that the vast majority of illegals come into the country and simply overstay their visas.

It would be far easier to make U.S. citizenship the most exclusive club in the world.

Posted by: jwest at May 23, 2015 09:37 AM (9ZZd+)

49 Down here in SE AZ the smugglers have been cutting huge holes in the unguarded and unpatrolled fence. If the 40 vehicle sized holes cut in the fence on a single ranch, only once did the USBP catch the load of drugs. The border is no longer guarded. Can't slow the flow of replacement Americans, you know.

Posted by: AZ Hi Desert (All my hate cannot be found) at May 23, 2015 09:39 AM (l7Kbv)

50 The Dutch cabinet on Friday approved a partial ban on wearing the
face-covering Islamic veil, including in schools, hospitals and on
public transport.
The ban does not apply to
wearing the burqa on the street, but only "in specific situations where
it is essential for people to be seen" or for security reasons, Prime
Minister Mark Rutte told journalists after the cabinet meeting."The bill does not have any religious background," Rutte said.

Those Damn Calvinist better stop wearing burqas on buses.

Posted by: TheQuietMan at May 23, 2015 09:39 AM (DiZBp)

51 Focusing on *illegal* immigration is a trap. The real problem is excessive legal immigration. Every year we are issuing 1.2 million green cards, to immigrants who vote 80-20 Dem. Its legal immigration, not illegal, that has changed America's demographics and is pushing the country relentlessly leftward (not to mention putting downward pressure on wages). The worst thing about the Gang of 8 bill wasn't the amnesty, it was the doubling of legal immigration. Yet nearly all conservatives opposing the bill only talked about the amnesty, even though increasing legal immigration is much more unpopular than amnesty.

What we need to do is slash legal immigration to the level it was at before Ted Kennedy's 1965 bill, which adjusted for today's larger population would be about 450,000 per year. And we need to replace chain migration of family members with a merit-based system.

The truth is that what we do with the illegals already here is relatively unimportant- what matters is the size of the future immigrant flow, legal and illegal.

Posted by: Jon (not the troll) at May 23, 2015 09:41 AM (HA+/6)

52 that fails to take into account that the vast majority of illegals come into the country and simply overstay their visas.

Posted by: jwest at May 23, 2015 09:37 AM (9ZZd+)

I see that today is "pull statistics out your ass" day.

Posted by: Emmett Milbarge at May 23, 2015 09:43 AM (nFdGS)

53 Thanks for the work involved in putting the post together.

But the main problem with the immigration issue is that despite a plethora of great ideas on how to close the border and reform legal immigration the two parties aren't really interested.

The donor class in both parties is intent on turning America into a third world refuge.

All the candidates are lying. None of them will expend the political capital needed to implement any reasonable ideas.

Posted by: Harold at May 23, 2015 09:43 AM (I2R/U)

54 "6
It also appears that our Yankee brethren are supporters of the new
underclass of imported aliens seeing as those states are where a vast
majority of the illegals are located.

Posted by: Gmac- Pulling in feelers in preperation... at May 23, 2015 08:31 AM (4CRfK)"

That is because they do not have enough of them. It would be a relatively inexpensive program to offer illegal aliens who are on welfare programs transportation to the states containing our moral superiors who think we need more of them.

Posted by: Obnoxious A-Hole at May 23, 2015 09:43 AM (QHgTq)

55 But the main problem with the immigration issue is that despite a plethora of great ideas on how to close the border and reform legal immigration the two parties aren't really interested.
---

Yeah, it certainly looks that way.

Posted by: Y-not at May 23, 2015 09:44 AM (RWGcK)

56 I sure hope the John Birch Society has a good candidate for 2016 cause all these Republicans suck.

Posted by: SpongeBobSaget at May 23, 2015 09:46 AM (zauWW)

57 Posted by: jwest at May 23, 2015 09:12 AM (9ZZd+)

You must really love having Chuck Schumer's hand up your ass you pathetic little twat.

Posted by: buzzion at May 23, 2015 09:47 AM (zt+N6)

58 Any illegal immigration solution that doesn't involve a physical barrier will rely entirely on the wishes and actions of bureacrats, and will never, ever be done.

Posted by: LincolnTf at May 23, 2015 09:48 AM (2cS/G)

59 Jon- You are correct and that is where these provisions for immigration in the TPA/TPP are so disastrous. So, to get back on topic, Ted Cruz voted for this. Obamatrade.com and Jeff Sessions have tried to make people aware of this.

Posted by: Ben Had at May 23, 2015 09:48 AM (ZBp0t)

60 Yes and no on that visa overstay. Mexicans can get a card (technically a visa) that allows them to shop within 25 miles of the border. They enter legally, then just keep going. So they are a visa overstay. But since they had no intention of abiding by the terms of the visa when they crossed the border they entered illegally.

Posted by: AZ Hi Desert (All my hate cannot be found) at May 23, 2015 09:49 AM (l7Kbv)

61 Hello Obnoxious A hole

Hey I've said good night but still lurking! I had a little break from posting - a few weeks turned to a few months!

Somalia - perfect solution

Posted by: aussie at May 23, 2015 09:49 AM (st0IT)

62 While his position on immigration may be halfway close to decent, Cruz is off my list as of now for ducking the vote on the Secret ChoomTrade Deal in favor of pimping himself for president. At least four members of the alleged majority party went on the record opposing the latest piece of Mocha Messiah/Bitch McConnell treason.

Before anyone says it: I'm not saying Cruz's vote would have won the day and forced Choom Boy's hand. I'm not quite that dumb. But Cruz should have gone on the record.

I'm an absolutist: anyone in a position of power who does not actively oppose villainy enables it. Some may say teh Tedster is "picking his battles." If I wanted that kind of spineless, optics-calculated bullshit, I'd support Ed Morrissey for president.

Posted by: MrScribbler at May 23, 2015 09:49 AM (P8YHq)

63 aussie - Your absence has been nored. Glad to see a few posts. We've been concerned about you.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at May 23, 2015 09:50 AM (QyBQv)

64 63 - '...noted..'

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at May 23, 2015 09:51 AM (QyBQv)

65 You would think that with polls _repeatedly and consistently_ showing very large percentages of voters agreeing that today's immigration levels are too high, and agreeing that those levels should be cut back substantially, that the Republican Party would be moving swiftly to get in front of that parade, and lead it to success at the polls.

But no. Not at all.

In fact, the Republican Party's leadership cadre, instead of pursuing provably popular policies, seem instead absolutely bound and determined to pursue fundamentally *unpopular* policies.

When _less than one-quarter_ of a party's registered base voters tell pollsters that they are happy with that party's performance in Congressional office, as revealed this week, that's the clearest possible indication that the party is headed for the dumpster.

Today's GOP: fundamentally unserious leadership.

Posted by: torquewrench at May 23, 2015 09:51 AM (noWW6)

66 Posted by: Gmac- Pulling in feelers in preperation... at May 23, 2015 08:31 AM (4CRfK)

Not really.....

CA, TX, FL WA,AZ, NV also have high %s of foreign born.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at May 23, 2015 09:51 AM (Zu3d9)

67 57 Posted by: jwest at May 23, 2015 09:12 AM (9ZZd+)

You must really love having Chuck Schumer's hand up your ass you pathetic little twat.

Posted by: buzzion at May 23, 2015 09:47 AM (zt+N6)

As always, you have nothing to add to the conversation.

Since you lack the capacity to understand what is being discussed, all you can do is make a stupid remark and run away.

For once, why not try to think about the subject and try to make a contribution?

Posted by: jwest at May 23, 2015 09:52 AM (9ZZd+)

68 the vast majority of illegals come into the country and simply overstay their visas.

Posted by: jwest
-----------------

A laughable comment.
I mean, really...., are you employed by the Chamber of Commerce?

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at May 23, 2015 09:54 AM (QyBQv)

69 "48
"And why is it that the borders cannot be sealed?"

Posted by: Obnoxious A-Hole at May 23, 2015 09:25 AM (QHgTq)

Even if we went the extreme of having an East German style society,
shooting people attempting to get over the wall or fence, that fails to
take into account that the vast majority of illegals come into the
country and simply overstay their visas.

It would be far easier to make U.S. citizenship the most exclusive club in the world.

Posted by: jwest at May 23, 2015 09:37 AM (9ZZd+)"

Pass all the laws you want. They are not going to enforce them and then they will look you in they eye and tell you lies. If they are not willing to build a fence, nothing else they say makes any difference. The physical existence of a fence is something that they cannot get away with lying about. That is why they refuse to build it. Every other proposal relies on you trusting what they say. They refuse to build the fence so you cannot trust them.

There are all sorts of things that we could talk about if they were dealing with us in good faith but they are not. They are lying to you. They have been lying to you for at least 30 years. The thing about a fence is that they cannot get away with the lie that it is there if it is not there. That is the first step to establishing any kind of trust. Without that trust, fuck you, fuck them, fuck any alternate plan. Do something that cannot be lied about. Then we can look at some other way to deal with the situation.

Posted by: Obnoxious A-Hole at May 23, 2015 09:54 AM (QHgTq)

70 Even if we went the extreme of having an East German style society,
shooting people attempting to get over the wall or fence,...
---------------

Straw man.
The E. Germans were keeping people in a prison against their will. BIG difference.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at May 23, 2015 09:56 AM (QyBQv)

71 Cruz is off my list because he is in favor of legal status for illegals- Mickey Kaus recently posted the video of him saying this in committee hearing. Walker was off my list but is now on it (but on probation) since he met with Sessions and says that immigration policy should focus on what's best for the American worker. As of now, no other Republican would have a chance of my vote.

Posted by: Emmett Milbarge at May 23, 2015 09:56 AM (nFdGS)

72 46 torque wrench

Hi, Bangladeshis here seem to be a group who fit in better than other Muslim groups - plenty take a secular lifestyle because they can here

Rather a Bangladeshi than a Pakistani. .

Posted by: aussie at May 23, 2015 09:57 AM (st0IT)

73 Good morning, CharlieBrown!

Posted by: Y-not at May 23, 2015 09:57 AM (RWGcK)

74 68 the vast majority of illegals come into the country and simply overstay their visas.

Posted by: jwest
-----------------

A laughable comment.
I mean, really...., are you employed by the Chamber of Commerce?

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at May 23, 2015 09:54 AM (QyBQv)

The vast majority of illegals came into this country on foot, in cars, busses, trains and planes through a border control and customs agent. They just stay instead of leaving.

I can't believe supposedly "informed" people don't know this fact.

Posted by: jwest at May 23, 2015 09:58 AM (9ZZd+)

75 saw a couple of women in burqas with their children walking through my neighborhood the other day. never seen them before. like watching the nazgul show up in the shire it was.

Posted by: Bigby's Knuckle Sandwich at May 23, 2015 09:59 AM (9mv+D)

76 As always, you have nothing to add to the conversation.

Since you lack the capacity to understand what is being discussed, all you can do is make a stupid remark and run away.

For once, why not try to think about the subject and try to make a contribution?

Posted by: jwest at May 23, 2015 09:52 AM (9ZZd+)

You don't deserve a decent response because you regularly demonstrate that you are an idiot living in some weird fantasy bubble. Every time you suck democrat cock on immigration as long as they get one of their illegal loving republican buddies as a front man for it. You spew bull shit like "you can't seal the border." No, you pathetic jackass, idiots like you don't want to try. You regularly demand even more bullshit laws because "what we're doing now isn't working," because you keep ignoring every person pointing out that the government isn't even following the laws on the book now. So fuck off you reject.

Posted by: buzzion at May 23, 2015 09:59 AM (zt+N6)

77 Posted by: Y-not at May 23, 2015 09:57 AM (RWGcK)

Good morning young lady!

There is a high risk of fire in this thread because of all the straw men being constructed.....

Anyone have a match?

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at May 23, 2015 10:00 AM (Zu3d9)

78 >>Anyone have a match?

*slides over blowtorch*

Posted by: Y-not at May 23, 2015 10:02 AM (RWGcK)

79 Earlier this month, 113 lawmakers signed a brief in support of the states' suit against Obama:

I clicked the link to see if my representative signed it. I didn't see a list, but I did see a particularly revolting photo of the Emperor getting his full Mussolini on. Be warned.

Posted by: rickl at May 23, 2015 10:02 AM (sdi6R)

80 63 Mike Hammer

Hi and I'm back after a little break - I was lurking daily of course!

Thanks for thinking of me *all you lovely morons*

Posted by: aussie at May 23, 2015 10:02 AM (st0IT)

81 The vast majority of illegals came into this country on foot, in cars, busses, trains and planes through a border control and customs agent. They just stay instead of leaving.

I can't believe supposedly "informed" people don't know this fact.
Posted by: jwest
-------------------------------

By law, visas are limited to 480,000 people a year. How do you reconcile that number with, say, 15,000,0000 illegals? 30 years of 100% overstay?

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at May 23, 2015 10:03 AM (QyBQv)

82 As of now, no other Republican would have a chance of my vote.

Posted by: Emmett Milbarge at May 23, 2015 09:56 AM

I'm sorry to say the system needs to be reformed before we can have a chance of a decent candidate.

The first step is to make EVERYONE -- and that includes the president and Congress -- obey the friggin' laws already on the books. No excuses, no side-steps, no do-overs.

Once we have slammed the cell doors on 535 Congresscrooks, a few former public officials and Choom Boy (think Maximum Security, long sentences), perhaps the next crop of wannabe Political Big Shots will get the message.

Yes, I know no one with any authority has the balls to take such a radical step....

Posted by: MrScribbler at May 23, 2015 10:03 AM (P8YHq)

83 "Walker was off my list but is now on it (but on probation) since he met with Sessions and says that immigration policy should focus on what's best for the American worker."

I don't get the Walker love which many people in the dextrosphere profess -- really, a guy who cites worn-out Clintonite hack MADELEINE ALBRIGHT as his foreign policy inspiration? -- but let's note that the Republican Party have never once to date tried such a firm public statement that immigration hurts native-born citizen workers.

It does. Demonstrably. Native-born citizen workers know that, and will respond strongly to it if the proposition is ever firmly put before them by a candidate.

A great case could also be made for aggressively attacking the 1990s Clinton trade-treaty packages: NAFTA, GATT, China MFN. Especially given the presumptive front-runner on the Democratic side, who can't escape her ties to them.

These are trade treaties which the USA sacrificed many hundreds of thousands of well-paid jobs for said native-born citizen workers, with most of those exported jobs ending up in countries which have since shown themselves to be actively hostile to American interests.

Those displaced native-born citizen workers were all promised that they'd get awesome new jobs, far better than the ones they had before, with federally paid "retraining" if needed. This was all bullshit and it hasn't happened. Call out the powers that be on this.

Posted by: torquewrench at May 23, 2015 10:05 AM (noWW6)

84 Q: How do you drown a blonde?
A: Put a scratch-and-sniff sticker at the bottom of the swimming pool.

Posted by: Remember these? at May 23, 2015 10:05 AM (VAsIq)

85 "The vast majority of illegals came into this country
on foot, in cars, busses, trains and planes through a border control
and customs agent. They just stay instead of leaving.

I can't believe supposedly "informed" people don't know this fact.

Posted by: jwest at May 23, 2015 09:58 AM (9ZZd+)"

And once that is the only way in, we can work at tightening controls on those sorts of crossings but as long as people can just walk across the border, no other controls will be effective.

If you make it more difficult to get a temporary visa, people will just walk around the fence.

Posted by: Obnoxious A-Hole at May 23, 2015 10:05 AM (QHgTq)

86 The visa overstays from other countries are less problematic than the tide coming across the border unchecked. We know who the overstays are. We have their names, pictures, and done a check on them. They still can't stay, but the bigger problem are the unknown unknowns who crossed the border undetected.

Posted by: AZ Hi Desert (All my hate cannot be found) at May 23, 2015 10:06 AM (l7Kbv)

87 I clicked the link to see if my representative signed it. I didn't see a list
--

There's a link in the article.

I did a string search of the PDF to look for the three Senators who are running.

I think there's a big difference between conceding that none of these candidates is perfect on immigration, illegal or legal, (and choosing from the best available) to throwing up our hands and letting anyone who wants to come here have a work permit.

Sessions isn't running. We've got to pick the best available.

Posted by: Y-not at May 23, 2015 10:07 AM (RWGcK)

88 By law, visas are limited to 480,000 people a year. How do you reconcile that number with, say, 15,000,0000 illegals? 30 years of 100% overstay?

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at May 23, 2015 10:03 AM (QyBQv)

Mexicans don't need a formal visa to come into the U.S.

When they get to the border, the immigration officer asks what the purpose of their visit is. Most time they say "shopping" or "visiting relatives". That's it. They're in.

When's the last time you went to the Mexican embassy asking for a visa to go to Cancun?

Posted by: jwest at May 23, 2015 10:08 AM (9ZZd+)

89 OT:
Ireland has passed a referendum legalizing same-sex marriage, the first passage due to a nationwide vote (rather than via legislation or court order.)

Posted by: LadyS at May 23, 2015 10:08 AM (xYNhJ)

90 78 You Not

Excellent post - I'm posting an Aussie flame thrower before I go to bed *hugs*

Nighty night as it's now after 12 on Sunday morning!

Posted by: aussie at May 23, 2015 10:09 AM (st0IT)

91 I won. Suck it bitter clingers. Fore!

Posted by: POTUS at May 23, 2015 10:09 AM (NPgvx)

92 Posted by: AZ Hi Desert (All my hate cannot be found) at May 23, 2015 10:06 AM (l7Kbv)

You are wrong. Everyone knows that the vast majority come legally and simply overstay. Those herds of illegals pouring over the border that you see in CA, AZ, NM, and TX are simply figments of your overactive imagination.

The only solution of course is to raise the wage of Congressmen to $1,000,000/yr.

Posted by: fnorth at May 23, 2015 10:10 AM (Zu3d9)

93 Posted by: MrScribbler at May 23, 2015 10:03 AM (P8YHq)

I don't doubt that most if not all of them should probably be in prison but it is never going to happen. I am not looking for cosmic justice. I would just like them to keep the corruption down to a dull roar and to give an occasional thought to the good of the American people. What am I saying. That is just as unrealistic as what you are suggesting.

Posted by: Obnoxious A-Hole at May 23, 2015 10:11 AM (QHgTq)

94 Damn, Y-not, that is an absolutely first class post. Top drawer.

Posted by: maddogg at May 23, 2015 10:13 AM (rgIC0)

95 90 Goodness

Fat fingers on tiny phone

Y not

Not you not *sorry darls*

Posted by: aussie at May 23, 2015 10:13 AM (st0IT)

96 Consider this:
-----------

Apply for your TN Temporary Work Visa today!

Sometimes, applying for a visa without a lawyer could be overwhelming. But now you can do it yourself following this smooth and easy process. Find the USCIS forms, requirements and step-by-step instructions that you need to complete your TN Professional Work Visa for Canadian/Mexican Citizen. Start today! Order your kit now!
-----------------------

Note the exclamation points. Yipeee!
And who is that published by...., why, the U.S. immigration service.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at May 23, 2015 10:15 AM (n6Nt0)

97 TY maddogg and aussie!

Posted by: Y-not on the phone at May 23, 2015 10:15 AM (RWGcK)

98 Verdict in Cleveland - judge is grandstanding...

Posted by: Bruce But Not Jenner at May 23, 2015 10:15 AM (iQIUe)

99 Ted Cruz has been "outed" as an Amnesty supporter.

I keep hearing how he was the one true conservative, but to me his entire candidacy falls part if he's just another open borders Republican. He's basically the same as Jeb Bush, the whole "give them legal status but not citizenship routine (which is a fantasy)

Mickey Kaus has a great roundup
http://tinyurl.com/lqbcgrt

Posted by: Kal at May 23, 2015 10:15 AM (afmfq)

100 I think there's a big difference between conceding
that none of these candidates is perfect on immigration, illegal or
legal, (and choosing from the best available) to throwing up our hands
and letting anyone who wants to come here have a work permit.
Posted by: Y-not at May 23, 2015 10:07 AM

I almost agree with you, Y-not.

No one should expect a "perfect" candidate. There never has been -- or ever will be -- such a mythical creature.

But before I ever again support a candidate -- as opposed to, at best, forcing myself to vote for them because the alternative is even worse -- I want to see them held accountable. As in; violate your oath of office, boom!, out of a job. Violate the law, boom!, out of a job.

I don't intend to support anyone who sees the presidency as a license to commit crime. Choom Boy and a few of his predecessors have made it clear we have to go back to principles basic not only to America, but any civilized nation.

Posted by: MrScribbler at May 23, 2015 10:16 AM (P8YHq)

101 Another nugget from the State Department:

Important Notice: Same-sex Marriage

Effective immediately, U.S. Embassies and Consulates will adjudicate visa applications that are based on a same-sex marriage in the same way that we adjudicate applications for opposite gender spouses.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at May 23, 2015 10:18 AM (n6Nt0)

102 No one should expect a "perfect" candidate. There never has been -- or ever will be -- such a mythical creature.

----

Jesus 2016!

Posted by: Turd Ferguson at May 23, 2015 10:18 AM (VAsIq)

103 How do I feel about illegal immigration? I'm against it.

Posted by: Candidate Turd Ferguson at May 23, 2015 10:19 AM (VAsIq)

104 I fought the blog
And the blog won.

Posted by: Turd Ferguson at May 23, 2015 10:20 AM (VAsIq)

105 That is just as unrealistic as what you are suggesting. Posted by: Obnoxious A-Hole at May 23, 2015 10:11 AM

Dude.

Expecting people -- especially the "servants of the people" to -- obey the law is unrealistic?

I'm not proposing something special to hold them down. I am saying they need to live the way we do, FFS.

Otherwise, we might as well surrender to savagery.

Posted by: MrScribbler at May 23, 2015 10:20 AM (P8YHq)

106 Otherwise, we might as well surrender to savagery.

Posted by: MrScribbler

Flies a white flag

Posted by: the French at May 23, 2015 10:21 AM (VAsIq)

107 How do I feel about illegal immigration? I'm against it.
Posted by: Candidate Turd Ferguson
------------------------

You left out..., "Next question..."

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at May 23, 2015 10:21 AM (n6Nt0)

108 Thx Kal.

Kaus and Horowitz were going at it over Cruz a couple of weeks ago. I follow each. I couldn't determine who was right. Kaus got a bug up his ass re Cruz this past month, but I don't understand what set him off. He is starting to remind me of Malkin ladt cycle when she made it her mission in life to take down Perry. A little too strident about it imho.

Posted by: Y-not on the phone at May 23, 2015 10:22 AM (RWGcK)

109 When's the last time you went to the Mexican embassy asking for a visa to go to Cancun?

Posted by: jwest
-------------------

I've always visited the Mexican Embassy before visiting Cancun.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at May 23, 2015 10:24 AM (n6Nt0)

110 How do I feel about illegal immigration? I'm against it.
Posted by: Candidate Turd Ferguson
------------------------

You left out..., "Next question..."

Posted by: Mike Hammer

How about: I'm against it. Those who are in this country illegally are, by definition, criminals, and my administration will pursue aggressive action to remove them from this country.

Next question.

Posted by: Turd Ferguson at May 23, 2015 10:24 AM (VAsIq)

111 @100
Valid points. I was mostly thinking of jwest's " not the hill to die on" thing.

It is early. Candidates need to hear and see what we care about. I am withholding my support until I feel more comfortable with one of them, including Cruz.

I don't understand the Trade Bill vote. But Cruz did try to smend it wrt to immigration, at least.

Posted by: Y-not on the phone at May 23, 2015 10:26 AM (RWGcK)

112 How about: I'm against it. Those who are in this country illegally are, by definition, criminals, and my administration will pursue aggressive action to remove them from this country.

Next question.
Posted by: Turd
-----------------------

* places check mark by 'Turd Ferguson' on the ballot*

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at May 23, 2015 10:26 AM (n6Nt0)

113 * places check mark by 'Turd Ferguson' on the ballot*

Posted by: Mike Hammer

*immediately reverses stance to get the votes of people who believe something different*

*laughs madly at trusting dupes*

Posted by: Candidate Turd Ferguson at May 23, 2015 10:28 AM (VAsIq)

114 Man, being a politician is awesome!

Posted by: Turd Ferguson at May 23, 2015 10:28 AM (VAsIq)

115 LOL Turd!

Posted by: Y-not on the phone at May 23, 2015 10:29 AM (RWGcK)

116 108.

Here's the thing, I really don't think it's a crazy charge. Cruz is a Canadian immigrant and his parents are immigrants. He's not going to be a border hawk on these issues.

When the Senate Amnesty bill came up, Cruz was completely MIA. That would have been his best moment to shine. far better than the government shutdown. A real immigrant blasting an Amnesty bill would have endeared him to the base, but he ducked it.

I would gladly support Cruz if he got the nomination, but if he's basically the same when it comes to amnesty, the gamble on him doesn't seem worth it as he's going to also have problems with the base.

Posted by: Kal at May 23, 2015 10:30 AM (afmfq)

117 *immediately reverses stance to get the votes of people who believe something different*

*laughs madly at trusting dupes*
Posted by: Candidate Turd Ferguson
--------------------

* ponders Ol' Betsy hanging over the mantle *

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at May 23, 2015 10:30 AM (n6Nt0)

118 "61
Hello Obnoxious A hole

Hey I've said good night but still lurking! I had a little break from posting - a few weeks turned to a few months!

Somalia - perfect solution

Posted by: aussie at May 23, 2015 09:49 AM (st0IT)"

In the long run or even the medium run, it would save lives as people realize that they are not going to Australia, Europe or the United States but to Somalia and they would not get on the leaky boats.

I guess it would make things easier for the NGOs since so many of their clients would be in the same place.

Posted by: Obnoxious A-Hole at May 23, 2015 10:31 AM (QHgTq)

119 I am concerned about illegal AND legal immigration. We are being flooded with people from "the Americas" that hate us and are changing us into Brazil. Add in muslims and Chinese, and there is no telling what is going to happen except more strife and at some point probable breakup of the country.

OT: Cleveland police verdict live in my nik

Posted by: Baldy at May 23, 2015 10:31 AM (sEXjW)

120 * ponders Ol' Betsy hanging over the mantle *

Posted by: Mike Hammer

*rediscovers integrity*
*stands by campaign promise*

Posted by: Candidate Turd Ferguson at May 23, 2015 10:32 AM (VAsIq)

121 @ Mike Hammer

About half of the current illegal population, came here legally and overstayed their visas.

This is one reason "guest worker" programs are terrible- many of the "guest" workers will never leave.

Posted by: Jon (not the troll) at May 23, 2015 10:32 AM (HA+/6)

122 This is one reason "guest worker" programs are terrible- many of the "guest" workers will never leave.

Posted by: Jon (not the troll)

Mike Hammer!
*Points to Ol' Betsy hanging over the mantle*

Posted by: Turd Ferguson at May 23, 2015 10:35 AM (VAsIq)

123 116 108.

Here's the thing, I really don't think it's a crazy charge. Cruz is a Canadian immigrant and his parents are immigrants. He's not going to be a border hawk on these issues.
---

I don't follow your logic.

It also excludes some strong (or competitive) GOPers like Jindal, Haley, Rubio, and Martinez.

If we're going to go with the "origins determine policy" route, then any of the Usual White Guys become vulnerable in a different way -- they have to bend over backwards to avoid seeming like they are for keeping brown people out of this country. Add to that the fact that Walker has admitted that he has not given this issue serious thought and who does that leave as a candidate?

I am not backing Cruz, yet (if ever), but I think Kaus has really overplayed his supposed betrayal on immigration.

Posted by: Y-not at May 23, 2015 10:36 AM (RWGcK)

124 Candidate X: If you could be any kind of tree, what would your stance on the relentless tide of illegal immigration be?

Posted by: Debate Moderator at May 23, 2015 10:36 AM (VAsIq)

125 This is one reason "guest worker" programs are terrible- many of the "guest" workers will never leave. Posted by: Jon (not the troll) at May 23, 2015 10:32 AM

You're missing the point here.

It is not the fault of the "guest worker programs" if said workers don't leave.

It is the fault of the workers who break the law by staying and the treasonous fuckweasels in D.C. who will not hunt them down and deport them as they are tasked to do by the law.

It's that simple. If I choose to ignore a "stop" sign and a cop ignores it, it is not the sign's fault. I am breaking the law and the cop is enabling me.

Posted by: MrScribbler at May 23, 2015 10:36 AM (P8YHq)

126 >>> It also appears that our Yankee brethren are supporters of the new underclass of imported aliens seeing as those states are where a vast majority of the illegals are located.

Not really. Here in Massachusetts, the powers that be are certainly in favor, but the lay of the land is that illegals aren't too popular.

Posted by: fluffy at May 23, 2015 10:37 AM (Ua6T/)

127 119
I am concerned about illegal AND legal immigration. We are being flooded
with people from "the Americas" that hate us and are changing us into
Brazil. Add in muslims and Chinese, and there is no telling what is
going to happen except more strife and at some point probable breakup of
the country.

OT: Cleveland police verdict live in my nik

Posted by: Baldy

I agree.

The traditional conservative answer has been we are for legal immigration but against illegal immigration.

I'm actually for curtailing both and I honestly think if a candidate ran on that and was fearless, they would have broad support

I've seen first hand where I work, these visas are taking what were once upper middle class, white collar jobs and turned them into fast food wages

The jobs that aren't being outsourced are going to be imported with $12 an hour engineers, accountants, etc

Posted by: Kal at May 23, 2015 10:37 AM (afmfq)

128 Not really. Here in Massachusetts, the powers that
be are certainly in favor, but the lay of the land is that illegals
aren't too popular.

Posted by: fluffy at May 23, 2015 10:37 AM

All the illegals in MA --especially those whose English-language skills are deficient -- work for the state. Especially on the MassHealth phone lines.

Posted by: MrScribbler at May 23, 2015 10:39 AM (P8YHq)

129 120
*stands by campaign promise*

Posted by: Candidate Turd Ferguson at May 23, 2015 10:32 AM (VAsIq)

But which one?

Posted by: rickl at May 23, 2015 10:39 AM (sdi6R)

130 I'm all for tightening restrictions on legal immigration, too, but...what about bringing in foreign-born hookers? Americans just charge too much.

Posted by: Concerned John at May 23, 2015 10:40 AM (VAsIq)

131 "Otherwise, we might as well surrender to savagery.

Posted by: MrScribbler at May 23, 2015 10:20 AM (P8YHq)"

I don't know about savagery but certainly lawlessness.

We have laws about immigration and we have not enforced those laws in a comprehensive and systematic way for about 40 years now. Those laws, presumably in a representative democracy, reflected the will of the American people. The ruling class has not wanted those laws to be enforced and those laws have not been enforced. The American people did not punish those law breakers of both parties by throwing them in prison, hanging them from lamp posts or even voting them out of office.

I would say that we have surrendered to lawlessness quite some time ago. The thing about the Obama Administration is that they have applied that lawlessness to a whole lot more of government.

Posted by: Obnoxious A-Hole at May 23, 2015 10:40 AM (QHgTq)

132 Definitely bed time now!

And OT

A bit of Aussie music - Google or Bing Joe Camilleri - Jo Jo Zep and the Falcons , Bakelite Radio, or Black Sorrows - all Joe's efforts

Great music to take your minds away from the daily crap *necessary to stay sane*

Good night for the 3rd time!

Posted by: aussie at May 23, 2015 10:40 AM (st0IT)

133 ya know

way things are going

if we got changed into Brazil

it'd be a step up

Posted by: Bigby's Knuckle Sandwich at May 23, 2015 10:41 AM (ZLn6+)

134 *stands by campaign promise*

Posted by: Candidate Turd Ferguson at May 23, 2015 10:32 AM (VAsIq)

But which one?

Posted by: rickl

*surveys the audience, sees which side has more guns*
I will obviously uphold my promises to go stand by constitutional principles and enforce our laws!

Posted by: Candidate Turd Ferguson at May 23, 2015 10:41 AM (VAsIq)

135 I've seen first hand where I work, these visas are
taking what were once upper middle class, white collar jobs and turned
them into fast food wages

The jobs that aren't being outsourced are going to be imported with $12 an hour engineers, accountants, etc

Posted by: Kal at May 23, 2015 10:37 AM (afmfq)

What a great idea! In fact, why don't we have current employees TRAIN the foreigners who will be taking their jobs?

Posted by: Carly Fiorina at May 23, 2015 10:41 AM (yxw0r)

136 Candidate X: If you could be any kind of tree, what would your stance on the relentless tide of illegal immigration be?
Posted by: Debate Moderator
-------------------

Well George, that is a painfully vapid question, but if we must speak in confused metaphors, I would be like a pyracantha.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at May 23, 2015 10:42 AM (n6Nt0)

137 I don't follow your logic.

It also excludes some strong (or competitive) GOPers like Jindal, Haley, Rubio, and Martinez.

If we're going to go with the "origins determine policy" route, then
any of the Usual White Guys become vulnerable in a different way --
they have to bend over backwards to avoid seeming like they are for
keeping brown people out of this country. Add to that the fact that
Walker has admitted that he has not given this issue serious thought and
who does that leave as a candidate?

I am not backing Cruz, yet (if ever), but I think Kaus has really overplayed his supposed betrayal on immigration.
Posted by: Y-not

It doesn't mean you exclude them, I'm saying it's not surprising someone with an immigrant background is going to be more open to it. I think that's common sense.

Cruz has unequivocally made statements that he wants a law that allow illegals to stay here for good. In my opinion, that's amnesty.

It is a difficult case to make for a white person, unfortunately.

Posted by: Kal at May 23, 2015 10:42 AM (afmfq)

138 Well George, that is a painfully vapid question, but if we must speak in confused metaphors, I would be like a pyracantha.

Posted by: Mike Hammer

I see. Racist. Interesting.

The Democrat clearly won that round.

Posted by: Debate Moderator at May 23, 2015 10:43 AM (VAsIq)

139 You can't trust a Canadian, apparently. LOL

Posted by: Y-not at May 23, 2015 10:44 AM (RWGcK)

140 I will obviously uphold my promises to go stand by constitutional principles and enforce our laws!
Posted by: Candidate Turd Ferguson
-----------------
* reduces the boiling-tar kettle to 'simmer' *

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at May 23, 2015 10:44 AM (n6Nt0)

141 It is a difficult case to make for a white person, unfortunately.

Posted by: Kal

All the girlies say I'm pretty fly (for a white guy)

Posted by: Offspring at May 23, 2015 10:44 AM (VAsIq)

142 NOOD

Posted by: Y-not at May 23, 2015 10:44 AM (RWGcK)

143 You can't trust a Canadian, apparently. LOL

Posted by: Y-not at May 23, 2015 10:44 AM

Having one for an ex-wife, I tend to agree.

Posted by: MrScribbler at May 23, 2015 10:45 AM (P8YHq)

144 >>>>think that's common sense.

WTF if you're going to bring super powers into the argument I want xray vision

Posted by: Bigby's Knuckle Sandwich at May 23, 2015 10:45 AM (X7gyf)

145 I see. Racist. Interesting.

The Democrat clearly won that round.
Posted by: Debate Moderator
--------------------

* turns up the burner under tar-kettle *

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at May 23, 2015 10:46 AM (n6Nt0)

146 I see. Racist. Interesting.

The Democrat clearly won that round.
Posted by: Debate Moderator
--------------------

* turns up the burner under tar-kettle *

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at May 23, 2015 10:46 AM (n6Nt0)

147 * reduces the boiling-tar kettle to 'simmer' *

Posted by: Mike Hammer

And THIS is how a Constitutional Republic should work! The damned politicians should be scared of the consequences of ignoring the will of those who put them in their high'n'mighty office.

Posted by: Turd Ferguson at May 23, 2015 10:46 AM (VAsIq)

148 "This is one reason "guest worker" programs are terrible- many of the "guest" workers will never leave.

Posted by: Jon (not the troll) at May 23, 2015 10:32 AM (HA+/6)"

It is a matter of incentives. Part of the requirements for participation in the guest worker program can involve fingerprinting, photographing, DNA samples and implantation with an RFID chip. Also implanted can be a tiny device that will explode upon expiration of the visa.

Posted by: Obnoxious A-Hole at May 23, 2015 10:47 AM (QHgTq)

149 What's disappointing is Cruz could be a real border hawk and totally get away with it.

I honestly think 70-80% of the public wants tougher immigration laws, it's just it becomes uncomfortable when a "white" politician comes off as overly strident on it. When the AZ law passed and the MSM was hyperventilating, it polled at like 75% support nationwide.

Cruz really could have found a niche on this, instead he seems to be branding himself now as a Social Conservative.

Posted by: Kal at May 23, 2015 10:49 AM (afmfq)

150 From about a week ago:

Presidential hopeful Sen. Ted Cruz wants to tie a fight over immigration to the fast-track trade legislation currently before the Senate.

The Texas Republican has filed an amendment that would block any trade agreements that "alter or affect any law, regulation, or policy relating to immigration."

Cruz's amendment could come up in the debate over fast-track, which if approved would prevent Congress from amending trade deals and force them to be considered in a majority vote.

http://thehill.com/blogs/floor-action/house/242377-cruz-ties-immigration-to-trade

Posted by: Y-not at May 23, 2015 10:52 AM (RWGcK)

151 "The amendment that I introduced removed the path to citizenship but it did not change the underlying work permit from the Gang of Eight" he said during a recent visit to El Paso Mr. Cruz also noted that he had not called for deportation

Posted by: Kal at May 23, 2015 10:55 AM (afmfq)

152 Besides barring citizenship while instituting some level of legalization
for those here already, Mr. Cruz has proposed increasing the number of
green cards awarded annually, to 1.35 million from 675,000. He also
wants to eliminate the per-country limit that he said left applicants
from countries like Mexico, China and India hamstrung when they tried to
gain legal entry to this country.

Posted by: Kal at May 23, 2015 10:57 AM (afmfq)

153 Brelo not guilty!

Posted by: Bruce But Not Jenner at May 23, 2015 10:59 AM (iQIUe)

154 "The amendment that I introduced removed the path to citizenship but it did not change the underlying work permit from the Gang of Eight" he said during a recent visit to El Paso Mr. Cruz also noted that he had not called for deportation
---

Because he was trying to get it passed to make sure that the trade bill didn't give Obama more powers wrt immigration. It wasn't intended as a poison pill to the bill.

Posted by: Y-not at May 23, 2015 11:01 AM (RWGcK)

155 Numbers USA makes me a bit nervous b/c they often come off too strongly anti-immigrant, but yesterday there was a report on their grading for the candidates on immigration:

They like Santorum the best. Walker, second.

"Of the declared candidates, Beck says the best so far are Gov. Scott Walker, Rick Perry and Sen. Ted Cruz.

"And Walker is definitely the best of those three right now," Beck tells OneNewsNow."

Posted by: Y-not at May 23, 2015 11:06 AM (RWGcK)

156 I honestly don't think Cruz and Rubio are any different on when it comes to what they would do about illegal immigration if they were President.

Posted by: Kal at May 23, 2015 11:06 AM (afmfq)

157 I agree Walker is probably the best on the issue.

Rick Perry is horrible. He disqualified himself when he came out against a border fence and when he called people who took issue with discounting college tuition for illegals as heartless. So he supports the "magnet" policies than bring them here and won't even support something as basic as a fence?

He's now trying to do a 180, but I don't trust him.

Posted by: Kal at May 23, 2015 11:10 AM (afmfq)

158 With all due respect, Kal, you appear to have made up your mind and are bending the "facts" to fit that conclusion.

Posted by: Y-not at May 23, 2015 11:17 AM (RWGcK)

159 You can't trust a Canadian, apparently. LOL

-----------

Well, yeah. Have you seen what they've done to bacon?

Posted by: Duke Lowell at May 23, 2015 11:33 AM (KFdZd)

160 Dear Y-not:

Thanks for these painful, but necessary, posts. I wish the campaign season were not so long.

Posted by: KT at May 23, 2015 12:01 PM (qahv/)

161 Dear Y-not:

Thanks for these painful, but necessary, posts. I wish the campaign season were not so long.

Posted by: KT at May 23, 2015 12:01 PM (qahv/)

162 Dear Y-not:

Thanks for these painful, but necessary, posts. I wish the campaign season were not so long.

Posted by: KT at May 23, 2015 12:01 PM (qahv/)

163 157 I agree Walker is probably the best on the issue.

Rick Perry is horrible. He disqualified himself when he came out against a border fence and when he called people who took issue with discounting college tuition for illegals as heartless. So he supports the "magnet" policies than bring them here and won't even support something as basic as a fence?

He's now trying to do a 180, but I don't trust him.
Posted by: Kal at May 23, 2015 11:10 AM (afmfq)

I hear you, but Perry actually knows the TX border and knows how hard it would be to build a double pedestrian fence the whole length. I got really angry in the 2012 primary when Romney and others went after Perry by promising to build a complete fence right after being elected.

Romney and the others were lying, and I don't like being lied to.

BTW, I"m not saying it's impossible, but it's a lot harder than most people think, and Romney was in fact lying when he said he'd build it right away.

Posted by: stace at May 23, 2015 12:04 PM (CoX6k)

164 162 Dear Y-not:

Thanks for these painful, but necessary, posts. I wish the campaign season were not so long.
Posted by: KT at May 23, 2015 12:01 PM (qahv/)

This ^^^, x 1000

Posted by: stace at May 23, 2015 12:11 PM (CoX6k)

165 I just attended SRLC in OKC. Jindal was really outstanding (didn't realize what a dynamic speaker he was). Walker was also really good; Christie was okay, Bush actually received a smattering of boos. Rubio and Cruz were unfortunately detained in DC, thanks to Rand Paul. Really wanted to see Fiorina, but was unable to make her speech. Oh, and Perry -- I was looking forward to a more polished Perry (after his disappointing performance last time around); however, his speaking ability seems limited, halting, unusually long pauses that feel like he's losing his way, he sounds like a caricature of W, and like W, you sit on the edge of your chair awaiting the inevitable gaffe. Rubio appears to be the best marketer, positioning himself against Hillary (the others focused on Obama) and projecting a "new American century" as a way to position Hillary as the ancient past.

Posted by: Viggen at May 23, 2015 12:19 PM (TepWt)

166 Cruz is still my favorite -- although Walker, Jindal and Paul are doing very well.

Cruz will insist on enforcement of existing laws so that we, as the electorate, can determine how far and what we should do to enforce our law.

Na�ve me, thinking that the President should enforce existing law. I thought that the 'bully pulpit' was to be used to influence making law.

Posted by: mustbequantum at May 23, 2015 12:35 PM (MIKMs)

167 A nation that does not enforce it borders against illegal immigration has no use for an army.

Posted by: Burnt Toast at May 23, 2015 07:37 PM (NaeCR)

168 Once TPP goes through none of this policy talk will matter.

Posted by: Wigglesworth at May 23, 2015 08:32 PM (z8IzG)

169 A law enforcement perspective.
Much has been written about the legislative solutions to illegal immigration. However, nothing works without enforcement. The lack of enforcement caused the blow up of illegal immigration.
Prior to approximately 1975, if a police officer stopped someone suspected of being here illegally, they would take that person to a phone booth and have INS call. They would speak to the individual, and if here illegally, authorize the officer to take him to the local jail to be deported. These individuals knew it was only a matter of time to be deported so they did not attempt any permanent roots: cars, families, houses, etc.
Around 1975, INS instructed all law enforcement agencies they would no longer authorize or deport anyone solely for immigration status. Only those arrested for a crime. This was later modified to felonies only and specifically not apply to DUI, hit and run, domestic violence, misdemeanor drug charges, theft, assault, etc. This resulted in an explosion of immigration, but this time they brought families, bought cars, bought houses, and enrolled their kids in school.
All laws are worthless without enforcement. We must establish enforcement first to justify new legislation.

Posted by: Ed Janssen at May 24, 2015 02:51 PM (sSi40)

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