Saturday Gardening Thread: Butterflies Are Free and Other Stuff [Y-not, KT, and Weirddave]

Y-not: Good afternoon, Gardeners!

Inspired by KT's description of the butterfly-friendly milkweed plant, today's thread is brought to you by Puccini's Madame Butterfly which premiered in 1904:

Set in Nagasaki, Japan, Madame Butterfly told the story of an American sailor, B.F. Pinkerton, who marries and abandons a young Japanese geisha, Cio-Cio-San, or Madame Butterfly. In addition to the rich, colorful orchestration and powerful arias that Puccini was known for, the opera reflected his common theme of living and dying for love. This theme often played out in the lives of his heroines -- women like Cio-Cio-San, who live for the sake of their lovers and are eventually destroyed by the pain inflicted by that love. Perhaps because of the opera's foreign setting or perhaps because it was too similar to Puccini's earlier works, the audience at the premiere reacted badly to Madame Butterfly, hissing and yelling at the stage. Puccini withdrew it after one performance. He worked quickly to revise the work, splitting the 90-minute-long second act into two parts and changing other minor aspects. Four months later, the revamped Madame Butterfly went onstage at the Teatro Grande in Brescia. This time, the public greeted the opera with tumultuous applause and repeated encores, and Puccini was called before the curtain 10 times. Madame Butterfly went on to huge international success, moving to New York's Metropolitan Opera in 1907.

If at first you don't succeed...

Take it away, KT:

Personal Gardening Update:

We got a little bit of rain! Yay! Later, a strange storm cell came through with sudden wind, lightning and maybe some hail nearby but no rain for us. It reminded me that there were some REAL storm cells in other parts of the country. Hope everybody's garden made it through the storms.

Last year at this time, we had ripe Apriums on the tree. This year, they are just starting to color. I need to do more thinning of stone fruits. We are starting to see spider mites, despite the somewhat cooler (than last year) weather the past month. Spider mites were a real problem last year.

I picked my first ripe Sungold tomato. Very nice flavor. Skin was a little tough, but that is to be expected in the first tomatoes of the year. The tomato plants look happier than our tomato plants the last couple of years. We planted them in a different location, so rotation may have helped. We also planted earlier.

I had fun with the Garden Train video that Beverly linked in the comments a couple of weeks ago. I thought it was worth featuring today in case you missed it.

If you are in the North and haven't planted potatoes yet, Maggie's Farm recently posted a link on The Right Potato for the Job. I like waxy potatoes for roasting and steaming. And I like yellow-fleshed potatoes. How about you?

Choose your next weeds carefully...

We are currently trying to eradicate weeds that we did not choose. But there are certain weeds that gardeners DO choose to plant. One kind of weed that a lot of people are planting right now is milkweed. Some people may love their future weeds. Other people, or their neighbors, may come to hate certain weed choices. I kinda promised Stace I would do a little milkweed summary.

I was fascinated with milkweed as a child. I saw little striped Monarch caterpillars grow on the leaves, turn into lovely pupae, then hosta into gorgeous butterflies. "By the time the caterpillar is half an inch long its butterfly wings are already developing inside it."

My interest in milkweed increased when my mother devised for me a rather elaborate craft project involving exotic things like India ink, fountain pens, blotting paper, watercolors and silky milkweed floss. She gathered the floss from roadside plants.

I also learned that during WWII, milkweed floss was gathered by schoolchildren as a replacement for kapok, for life jackets and such. I didn't really know what kapok was at the time, though my father had an old life jacket filled with it in the basement. It seemed heavier to me than milkweed floss would have been. Of course, seeds carried on the wind by airy floss contribute to the invasiveness of some species of milkweed.

I once worked on a corporate campus in Southern California where a Silk Floss Tree was planted. The Silk Floss tree is a cousin to Kapok and Baobab trees. I watched that Silk Floss tree release floss into the wind when the seed pods matured. It reminded me of milkweed floss and cottonwood trees. Before the floss starts to fly, the flowers provide nectar to Monarch butterflies. The flowers are very interesting close-up, and a tree full of them is gorgeous.

Silk Floss trees will grow in desert areas such as Glendale, Arizona. They make a good tree for a xeriscape in nearly frost-free climates. The trunks and branches are green when young so that photosynthesis can continue when the tree loses its leaves. They are covered with conical prickles that store water for dry times.

TRIGGER WARNING: One traditional name for the tree is the "wife-beater tree". Somewhere in Argentina or Brazil, people may recount an unpleasant legend to explain this name. I am not particularly interested in hearing it.

But back to milkweed: There are more than 70 species of milkweed in the USA, plus a few plants in the same genus that attract egg-laying Monarch butterflies. Below, some notes on a few of them. I look forward to updates on your choices for attracting butterflies and/or raising caterpillars.

Common Milkweed, Asclepias syriaca

Common Milkweed may be the most frequent host of Monarch caterpillars in the Northeast, and its native range includes much of the USA east of the Rockies. Milkweed flowers provide lots of nectar for insects, but sometimes trap visiting honeybees between their anthers. Native bees and wasps have an easier time escaping.

We were taught in school that toxic compounds in milkweed deterred birds from eating Monarch butterflies. Look-alike Viceroy butterflies were supposed to be protected by their similarity to Monarchs. But it now looks like there may be some mutual mimicry going on.

Not all species of milkweed contain the same amount of the cardiac glycosides which can make birds sick, and which, in large doses, can be dangerous to people. Many people maintain that Common Milkweed is edible without special treatment. This would indicate a low level of cardiac glycosides. But in some locales, the same plant parts are bitter and inedible. This may be due to hybridization with other species of milkweed.

The "Eat the Weeds" guy provides a lot of interesting information for plant nerds, wild food enthusiasts and survivalists here. "I would not try any milkweeds with skinny leaves." for example. He explains why common milkweed is called "syriaca" even though it is not from Syria. He explains how to tell milkweed and dogbane apart. As suggested by the name, dogbane is generally toxic to animals. Monarchs sometimes lay eggs on it.

Farmers tend to react with dismay when organizations encourage people to plant Common Milkweed. It is an aggressive plant where adapted, and hard to get out of fields. Stems may pop up many feet from the original plant.

Part of the push to plant milkweed comes from anti-Monsanto alarmists. But planting Common Milkweed anywhere near a farm just makes it more likely that a farmer will need to use herbicides. If you have this plant or similar invasive milkweeds growing on your property and want to keep them, remove the seedpods before they release seeds. To keep the neighbors happy.

Asclepias tuberosa, Butterfly Weed

Butterfly Weed is much less invasive than Common Milkweed. In fact, it may be a challenge to get it established. It is a tap-rooted plant, suited to well-drained, sandy soils. High Country Gardens sells a cultivar that does better in clay soils than the species. It resents transplanting. Some people report good success with winter-sowing and careful transplanting when the plants are young.

It also comes up late in the spring after its winter dormancy, and people accidentally dig it up. Some gardeners plant daffodils or other spring bulbs nearby to remind them not to dig up the butterfly weed. Daylilies are another good companion. This plant does best in full sun. Plant it in large swaths to attract butterflies seeking nectar. This is a good milkweed for cut flower use, as the stems do not exude latex. No pretreatment of stems is required before arranging.

The species is generally seen in a bright orange color that may not fit well into all color schemes. You can get seeds for a mixture of hot colors. As I recall, the "Gay Butterflies" mixture used to include pink and cream, and perhaps a bronze-leaved red. Springhill may be using an old photo that includes these colors, but their description now says, "shades of orange, red and yellow". There is also a yellow selection called "Hello Yellow". Below, the classic orange Butterfly Weed, dramatically paired with blue:

Swamp Milkweed, Asclepias incarnata

This one is easy to grow, and may be invasive in certain situations, but not like Common Milkweed. Because it is more attractive to egg-laying Monarchs than Butterfly Weed, one strategy for a butterfly garden might be to plant some Swamp Milkweed in self-watering containers away from the larger plantings of Butterfly Weed, which is very attractive to butterflies for its nectar. Mama butterflies may prefer isolated plants for egg laying because this may lessen the chance of caterpillar predators finding her babies.

There are several garden cultivars available. "Ice Ballet" and "Milkmaid" are white. "Cinderella" is pink and "Soulmate" is rose.

Milkweed Vine, Morrenia odorata

This vine, now naturalized in parts of Florida, is in the same family, but not the same genus, as milkweed. It has some similarities, but the "Eat the Weeds" guy is actually enthusiastic about eating this one. He calls it his "civic duty", since it is damaging to citrus groves. Its other common name is "Strangler Vine". Though people can enjoy eating this plant, it is toxic to cattle.

Monarchs will lay eggs on it in a pinch, though they seem to prefer real milkweed. Edible "Strangler Vine" should not be confused with the "Dog-Strangling Vine". This is a nasty one, an invader now even found in Canada. Monarchs lay eggs on it, but it kills a large percentage of the caterpillars. It also strangles plants and trees. Rip it out, but don't eat it.

Another species to avoid is the Horsetail or Poison Milkweed. Only two or three ounces can kill a sheep. In an open field, most animals have the good sense not to eat it. But in cut hay, it can be deadly.

Tropical Milkweed, Asclepias curassavica

Tropical Milkweed, or Blood Flower, may be the ultimate Monarch caterpillar host. It can be grown as an annual in the North, but may naturalize in the South.

There is now a controversy among plant nativists around growing it in subtropical areas because some Monarchs are staying in those areas of the USA permanently, rather than migrating. There is also a concern about the possible spread of a butterfly disease through close contact between butterflies on the plants. One sensible idea from Texas: Tropical Milkweed is OK for Monarch Butterflies, "Just Cut the Dang Stuff Down".

There is a florist-quality series of cultivars called the "Silky Series". Silky Gold and Silky Deep Red seem to be popular. Don't get the latex in your eyes.

Other Monarch Hosts

This site has a brief rundown on several plants you might choose if you wish to stick with native species, or if you want to grow a milkweed tree. Or if you want to shock those prudish neighbors by growing Bishop's Balls. White Milkweed is fairly shade tolerant, and Green Milkweed may be tolerant of moist or wet clay soils. Whichever one you choose, have fun in your butterfly garden.

Y-not: Thanks, KT!

Butterflies are amazing creatures. They're beautiful, for one thing.

But they are also a great case study to use when arguing a pro-life position.

FOLLOW THE LINK ABOVE. THIS ONE HERE. YES, THIS LINK.

I think the transformation of the (often) homely and destructive caterpillar into a beautiful and useful butterfly also reminds us that we have to take the bad with the good.

If you want to learn all there is to know about butterflies (on this continent) you might want to check out the Entomological Society of America or the North American Butterfly Association. NABA runs the National Butterfly Center in Mission, Texas. Ever been there?

Or, if you're of a more scientific bent, how about a REAL closeup of a butterfly wing?

A butterfly's iridescent coloring is a result of the intricate patterning of thousands of microscopic scales, attached to thin wing membranes. Those scales scatter light in complex ways. Iridescence helps butterflies elude predators.

Each complex scale is made up of about 40 ribs, the ribs are connected by tiny cross bars.

For a sense of scale, the yellow line below the scanning electron micrograph image is about 20 microns. A human red blood cell is roughly 8 microns in diameter.

The ribs are held apart by intricate crossbars. Air spaces also affect light absorption and refraction. Butterfly scales are composed of stacked chitin lamellae. Chitin is a tough, semitransparent substance that is the main component of the exoskeletons of arthropods, such as the shells of crustaceans and the outer coverings of insects. Chitin is also found in the cell walls of certain fungi and algae.
A Butterfly scales' structural grid diffracts or bends light in different degrees and that interference is what gives butterflies their intensity of color, vibrancy and iridescence. When light hits the complex wing, the multiple reflections compound one another, such as when light hits a scale, that ray of light also interacts with light bouncing off the scale, in this case from numerous differing angles. These compound interactions create iridescence and variety of color.
Butterfly wings receive their color from two sources, from structural color (described above) and ordinary (or pigmented) color. Butterfly scales are also pigmented. Most brown and yellow butterflies get their color from melanin, just like you and I. Even Blue Morphos have a base of melanin. Melanin absorbs light which helps to further intensify a butterfly's coloration. Other coloring agents are uric acid (white), carotenoid pigments (orange) and flavonoids such as quercetin (red and purple).

This article from Wired explains more about the origins of the shine in butterfly wings, including a short video explaining how a particular butterfly's wings get their blue color:

The Wired article also talks a bit about how butterfly wings develop during the organism's metamorphosis:

Two kinds of cells are involved; scale cells and socket cells. In a caterpillar, they are just ordinary cells, and don't have any distinguishing characteristics. But early on in pupal development (7% complete), they begin to organize in rows corresponding to where the future wing will grow. Each butterfly scale is the product of a single scale cell.
The socket cell anchors the scale to the membrane of the insects' wing; the scale cell pokes through the insect's wing surface like a hernia. The scale cell forms strings of proteins called F-actins, which provides a framework on which the detailed nanostructures of the scales are built. At 28% complete metamorphosis, you can see both cells and ribbed bundles of actins forming. It's a ghostly outline of the scale structure to come.
Like a pasta maker, the scale cell squeezes out and assembles a lattice of actins. These actins form the template on which the rest of the scale's cuticle will be laid down, and foreshadow the fine ribs of the finished scale. At around 64% of the way through metamorphosis, the actin bundles begin to disappear, and the finishing touches are added to the scale. Eventually, the scale cell dies, revealing the finished scale which hardens upon emergence.

One correction to the text. The protein molecule that builds the long struts is called G-actin (for globular actin), not F-actin. G-actin is a round(ish) molecule, roughly 5 nanometers in diameter, that self-assembles into long actin filaments (F-actin). There are a battery of protein molecules and other chemical factors that regulate the assembly and disassembly of actin filaments in all of your cells and, as it turns out, in butterfly wings.

Biology is cool.

Small biology is really cool.

Really small biology is...

Now, here's Weirddave:

This year I didn't plant as many vegetables as last year, I mostly just planted the front part of the beds, but everything is in the ground and established, so lets take a look, shall we? First up: bush beans. Now, I've never planted bush beans before, I expected them to look more like, I dunno, a bush. Some of them do, but a lot of them are just flopping on the ground.

The straws you see were my attempt to repair some of the stalks. I planted them too early, and a lot of them grew so tall in their seedling pots that they couldn't support themselves and they flopped over. I took some straws from McDonalds, cut them, split them lengthwise, and then put them around the creased stem like a splint. Results are mixed, I'll keep you posted.

Next, we have the Teutonic bed. Everything is neat and orderly, all plants lined up in ranks, as they should be:

That's three different types of lettuce in front, then broccoli, then Brussels sprouts. I don't know if the broccoli or sprouts will make it, they went in late so they will likely bolt. On the other hand, I had a fire in the fireplace just this week, so maybe the summer will be cool. In the background you can see a few snap peas struggling to grow up the side of the deck.

Finally we have tomatoes and peppers. My job today is going to be staking these plants up, because they are already producing:

There at least I think I will be enjoying fresh tomatoes before too long. Finally, a report on those miracle grow seed pods I talked about a few months back. All 4 of them grew well, here's the pot I planted them in:

L to R we have pepper, tomato, pepper, tomato. The tomato that is second from the left was not grown from a pod-I grew a green beans pod there and it's already been transplanted to the garden. The other three plants are from the pods, so while they aren't cost effective compared to just buying seeds, they all grew well.

Y-not: And now for something completely different, here's Iron Butterfly:

I think the 60s are proof-positive that drugs are bad for you. (Sure, they claim that it was wine that caused "In the Garden of Eden" to come out as gibberish, but the audiences who listened to this dreck were definitely on something stronger.)

Speaking of hippies, here's Goldie Hawn in her undies from the movie Butterflies Are Free:

What's happening in your gardens this week?

**Post updated to point out the pro-life link.**

Comments

(Jump to bottom of comments)

1 What's happening in your gardens this week?

I just told you.

Posted by: Weirddave at May 23, 2015 01:50 PM (WvS3w)

2 Me, gardening? I could as well plant a concrete lawn, and paint it green.

And I'd probably manage to kill that, too.



Jim
Sunk New Dawn
Galveston, TX

Posted by: Jim at May 23, 2015 01:51 PM (7x4lH)

3 There's a local mall that has been closed a number of years in our area, it's been tied up in different ownerships and getting a redevelopment plan that will pass the many levels of bureaucracy and economic interests.

Well, demolition on the place is going to start soon, and my wife and the local boy scouts spent the morning digging up plants in their parking lot and culled about (she says) 200 pounds of bulbs.

These will get replanted around our town as part of the beautification program.

Posted by: Pappy O'Daniel at May 23, 2015 01:53 PM (oVJmc)

4 Well, demolition on the place is going to start soon, and my wife and the local boy scouts spent the morning digging up plants in their parking lot and culled about (she says) 200 pounds of bulbs.
--

That's a great project!

Posted by: Y-not at May 23, 2015 01:54 PM (RWGcK)

5 I think we killed the blog.

Posted by: Y-not at May 23, 2015 02:02 PM (RWGcK)

6 I'm trying to get my tomatoes to kick in a little sooner this year, so they're in the ground, stakes around them, with empty mulch bags over the stakes. Like a miniature greenhouse. At least for the next week or two. It's frustrating in this climate zone having to wait till mid to late July for the first tomato.

The mulch bags are clear on one side and almost completely black on the other and at least 10 - 15 degrees warmer then air --- which is running a range of 55-70 lately.

Posted by: SE Pa Moron at May 23, 2015 02:05 PM (xQX/f)

7 It's frustrating in this climate zone having to wait till mid to late July for the first tomato.
---

The first two varieties of tomatoes that I planted are not happy campers. It's been very wet and cool. I just put in some of those Cherokee black plants which were successful last year. 'Hoping our weather cooperates.

Posted by: Y-not at May 23, 2015 02:07 PM (RWGcK)

8 No planting around here. Very little sun in 2 weeks. Too much rain, which is hard to believe around here.

Posted by: Ronster at May 23, 2015 02:11 PM (r124R)

9 I'm trying to get my tomatoes to kick in a little sooner this year...
Posted by: SE Pa Moron at May 23, 2015 02:05 PM

One thing that was discovered in recent years is the color red will accelerate tomato growth. I bought some red water tents and the tomatoes I use them on do get bigger faster.

Things have grown fast here in the last week or so. Got plenty of rain but It's amazing how dry the ground is already. Had to water everything yesterday.

Posted by: Farmer at May 23, 2015 02:12 PM (3hlFs)

10 I'm no botanist, but I only find milkweed where I find poison ivy.

Posted by: Garrett at May 23, 2015 02:13 PM (6qXZG)

11 Started a butterfly garden this year. So far I've planted swamp milkweed, purple coneflower, parsley, bronze fennel, blazing star and various phloxes. Fingers crossed that it actually attracts a few butterflies. But if not at least it looks pretty.

Posted by: Truly St. Cyr at May 23, 2015 02:13 PM (WygWf)

12 I just put in some of those Cherokee black plants

------

DOUBLE RACIST!

Posted by: Turd Ferguson at May 23, 2015 02:14 PM (VAsIq)

13 The photo of the orange flowers is Butterfly Weed with Fritillaries.

"Swamp Milkweed, Asclepias incarnata" was intended to be the heading for the following section. Sorry, Y-not.

Posted by: KT at May 23, 2015 02:15 PM (qahv/)

14 Love the butterfly science stuff.

Posted by: KT at May 23, 2015 02:15 PM (qahv/)

15 A few months ago there was a great post about growing garlic. We tried planting some last fall but this spring nothing was coming up. Turns out they were all gone. Apparently the squirrels like aioli or skorthalia on their acorns.

Question for the group: Could we plant them and keep them in an unheated garage over the winter to protect them from the critters? A sunny window is available and they can be watered as needed.

Any thoughts?

Posted by: JTB at May 23, 2015 02:16 PM (FvdPb)

16 I'm no botanist, but I only find milkweed where I find poison ivy.

Posted by: Garrett

Milkweed comes from Cowweed. Poison Ivy grows where Batman has been.

Posted by: I'm not a botanist but I play one on TV at May 23, 2015 02:17 PM (VAsIq)

17 WeirdDave, I think your broccoli and brussels sprouts plants are too close together. Unless you have some really giant lettuce. You might not get anything if they don't have enough room.

Do you know which cultivars you planted?

Posted by: KT at May 23, 2015 02:18 PM (qahv/)

18 One of the coolest things about moving out to our farm has been the birds and butterflies. It really is wild land out here, I have seen blooms I've never seen before, lots and lots. My intention was to plant bees and butterfly flowers but they are already here. The camera on this s5 is really good, but not so good for birds and butterflies though.

I just planted a half acre of peaches and corn as winter feed for my pigs, two of the smallest pigs decided they didn't care about the electric fence and ate about half the seed. They just re dug the furrow with their nose and got every seed. Tomorrow I turn those two into meat. Monday I replant. Pigs must respect the fence. It's a rule. If you are very tasty, don't break the rules.

If you want to see my garden check twitter. So far we've gotten potatoes, squash, cukes, and lettuce.

Oh, we had a close call with a tornado, less than a mile from our house.

Posted by: traye at May 23, 2015 02:19 PM (VveEI)

19 A couple weeks ago we lost power, so the cistern pump for the French drain was not working. Basement flooded. Had to put in an extra pump when power was restored to keep up with the water. Extra pump quit, had to buy a new one at 2x price because big box stores were sold out. This Spring has been great.

Posted by: Ronster at May 23, 2015 02:19 PM (r124R)

20 Whoops. Sorry KT. I will fix when I get back.

Posted by: Y-not on the phone at May 23, 2015 02:21 PM (itP1/)

21 I have seen video/documentaries filmed in St Petersburg CommieLand. The air is filled with what appears to be milkweed. It's like there is a heavy snow. Does any one know what it is?

Posted by: Bruce But Not Jenner at May 23, 2015 02:27 PM (iQIUe)

22 JTB,

it might be possible to plant garlic in an unheated garage. Some people plant shallots inside and harvest the greens.

Have you looked into whether you could plant some garlic cultivars in the spring? There is one called "Susanville" that I doubt would do much growing over winter in Susanville. Don't know how it does in warm climates.

But here's some information on spring planting:
http://www.gardenguides.com/99045-plant-garlic-spring.html

Posted by: KT at May 23, 2015 02:28 PM (qahv/)

23 We're having our first salad from the garden tomorrow: leaf lettuce, arugula, spinach, dill and chives. Add on some feta cheese, Vidalia onion, home made croutons and GOOD balsamic dressing. Beats anything we can get in a restaurant.

Posted by: JTB at May 23, 2015 02:31 PM (FvdPb)

24 Weirddave,

You can also "hill up" your gangly beans with some of your planting mix to stabilize the stems. Don't try this with your broccoli or brussels sprouts, though.

Posted by: KT at May 23, 2015 02:34 PM (qahv/)

25 No gardening HERE. A thundering hailstorm is in progress

Posted by: boulder terlit hobo at May 23, 2015 02:34 PM (UemZn)

26 I have seen video/documentaries filmed in St Petersburg CommieLand. The air is filled with what appears to be milkweed. It's like there is a heavy snow. Does any one know what it is?

Posted by: Bruce But Not Jenner

Spider silk. From spiders. That fall from the sky.

Posted by: Turd Ferguson at May 23, 2015 02:34 PM (VAsIq)

27 I keep my garlic in a 2 X 2 X 2 foot tall container. Never had a problem with squirrels getting in that. Groundhogs get into anything though. Was just reading this morning that they're also afraid of coyote urine which I've using to keep the deer at bay.

Couple nights ago I saw three deer about 150 feet away - downwind. I picked up my jar of coyote urine, flipped open the spout and all I saw was white tails bolting. Stuff really works. Before they would ignore me completely, then graze all night long on everything.

Posted by: SE Pa Moron at May 23, 2015 02:36 PM (xQX/f)

28 Thanks KT. I'll check it out.

Posted by: JTB at May 23, 2015 02:36 PM (FvdPb)

29 I do you harvest coyote piss?

Posted by: lowandslow at May 23, 2015 02:40 PM (dItuC)

30 Truly St. Cy, do you live in the East?

Swamp milkweed, purple coneflower, parsley, bronze fennel, blazing star and phloxes sound like a fine start. You might look for a local guide to which butterflies live in your area.

Swallowtail caterpillars are beautiful on bronze fennel once they get past the bird dropping look-alike stage. In the West, Anise Swallowtails mostly live near hills and/or canyons. In the East, you can get Black Swallowtails over a wider area.

Posted by: KT at May 23, 2015 02:41 PM (qahv/)

31 There was some common Milkweed around here for awhile. I always dug it up. Guess the butterflies will have to eat somewhere else.

Posted by: Ronster at May 23, 2015 02:42 PM (r124R)

32 29 I do you harvest coyote piss?
Posted by: lowandslow

With 223. Come on over, we've got a few.

Posted by: traye at May 23, 2015 02:42 PM (VveEI)

33 How bad is the weather here? A raccoon just tried to get inside this building; totally drenched, at 12:40 PM. Didn't look rabid. I assume the poor thing got washed out of its noontime nap.

It might get run over :^/

Posted by: boulder terlit hobo at May 23, 2015 02:42 PM (UemZn)

34 #21 I think it might be Russian poplars. They shed a cotton-like substance that blows around and looks like snow. Unfortunately, it also carries pollen, to which a lot of people are allergic. In fact, the government in Kashmir recently ordered all such trees there to be chopped down because of widespread allergic reactions.

Posted by: Trotsky w/an icepick in his head at May 23, 2015 02:46 PM (LaZ5x)

35 I thought Raccoons liked water.

Posted by: Ronster at May 23, 2015 02:47 PM (r124R)

36 (how) do you harvest coyote piss?

Carefully, I imagine.

Me, I just punch some keys and Amazon delivers. At the rate I'm using it the six buck bottle should last about a year. Worth every penny. I have thousands of plants, most deer-proof, a lot not so.

Posted by: SE Pa Moron at May 23, 2015 02:47 PM (xQX/f)

37 I always wondered how the name "Pinkerton" was chosen for the villain in Madame Butterfly.

Posted by: KT at May 23, 2015 02:49 PM (qahv/)

38 Just basic yard work today - mowing the lawn, trimming & edging. I might borrow the neighbor's spreader to throw around some flea/mosquito killer.

Best news of the day? I didn't have to show ID at wallyworld to buy a box of shotgun shells! That was a surprise.

Posted by: chi's sandwIch (previously shredded chi) at May 23, 2015 02:49 PM (ILmoZ)

39 I assume that raccoons don't like to be hailed on, at least.

Posted by: boulder terlit hobo at May 23, 2015 02:50 PM (UemZn)

40 Best news of the day? I didn't have to show ID at wallyworld to buy a box of shotgun shells! That was a surprise.

Posted by: chi's sandwIch

*takes note*

Posted by: NSA Agent Assigned to AoS at May 23, 2015 02:51 PM (VAsIq)

41 KT the plants are about a foot apart.

And I'm pretty sure that poster is pro-abortion, not pro-life, but that's not something to argue in a garden thread.

Posted by: Weirddave at May 23, 2015 02:52 PM (sqMPm)

42 I put a pic up on Twitter of our blackberries.

Well, most of 'em. They've spread!

We're over 30 inches of rain for this year, with more forecast for the next several days.

Red River is expected to reach flood stage next week.

Hard to get any work done with all the rain, and even when it's not raining, it's very wet and sooo buggy.

Posted by: Mama AJ at May 23, 2015 02:52 PM (0xTsz)

43
"I assume that raccoons don't like to be hailed on, at least."


Can only speak for myself, but being caught outside in a hail storm is no fun at all.

Posted by: HH at May 23, 2015 02:54 PM (Ce4DF)

44 The Raccoon I planted about a month ago still hasn't come up.

Posted by: Ronster at May 23, 2015 02:56 PM (r124R)

45 KT, I live in northern VA. I tried to go with native plants as much as possible to attract the local species. And also because I'm lazy and try to avoid fussy plants

Posted by: Truly St. Cyr at May 23, 2015 02:56 PM (WygWf)

46 Mama AJ -
My goodness.
The blackberries have spread out faster than poison ivy this year!
I'll have buckets full before long!

Posted by: chi's sandwIch (previously shredded chi) at May 23, 2015 02:57 PM (ILmoZ)

47 12 inches for broccoli should be fine if you're not looking for giant heads, Weirddave. They look closer in the photo.

Posted by: KT at May 23, 2015 03:03 PM (qahv/)

48 The Raccoon I planted about a month ago still hasn't come up.
Posted by: Ronster

When I was 3 my grandpa shot a possum and buried it, I checked every day for a possum plant.

Posted by: traye at May 23, 2015 03:04 PM (VveEI)

49 KT
http://tinypic.com/r/5js01j/8
Sulphur burner for the blueberries. I asked. It goes into the water somehow.

Posted by: CaliGirl at May 23, 2015 03:05 PM (BHl9S)

50 MamaAJ I saw your blackberries on Twitter. Nice.

Posted by: traye at May 23, 2015 03:06 PM (VveEI)

51 I have been busy in my raised beds. I planted more tomatoes and zinnias. I am tired of watering everything and it is not hot yet.

Posted by: CaliGirl at May 23, 2015 03:07 PM (BHl9S)

52 Just picked a bunch of Golden Dorsett and Anna's apples off my little trees! A bunny is hitting up the very low fruits but I'll spot him that. Got some sun gold tomatoes, with tough skins too, zucchini, shishito peppers and purple bush beans. The tomatoes took over while I was on vacation last week.

I love those monarchs but despite my humongous milkweed garden, they lay enough eggs to mow the thing down repeatedly. I can't keep up! They have the most beautiful colored cocoons. It looks unreal with those golden highlights!
That was the most fantastic lesson on milkweeds, KT! I spent a ton of time researching this stuff when we found a couple monarchs with funky wings and that parasite is what some websites talked about. I planted some of the native kinds but not nearly the success of the pretty orange and yellow non native ones.

I also plant a ton of borage to keep the bees happy.
All in all a great garden week.

Posted by: keena at May 23, 2015 03:09 PM (RiTnx)

53 Chag Shavo'ut sameach, esteemed members of the Tribe. Hope you're not Ruth-less today.

I see I was too late for the previous thread.

Posted by: Bob's House of Flannel Shirts and Wallet Chains at May 23, 2015 03:09 PM (yxw0r)

54 KT
What do I use for fertilizer for amyrillias bulbs outside. They are in pots. They are just finishing blooming.

Posted by: CaliGirl at May 23, 2015 03:10 PM (BHl9S)

55 A bit of a surprise in the garden. We used old soil from the Earth Boxes to fill the containers for daffodils. The daffys haven't been too successful but we have a LOT of dill that self seeded into the soil. Fortunately, I like fresh dill. Today I noticed another container that has what looks like a couple of eggplants coming up in a similar situation. What nice surprises.

Also, the fig tree (more like a fig twig) is fully leafing out. I am beyond amazed that the little thing survived the winter. May have to move it to a bigger container in a year or so.

Posted by: JTB at May 23, 2015 03:10 PM (FvdPb)

56 Truly St. Cyr,
Let us know if you get more caterpillars on the parsley or the bronze fennel.

Around here, if I want native plants other than weeds, I have to plant them. Some native butterfly plants, like stinging nettle, most people don't want in their yards.

Sometime we probably ought to mention tree choices for attracting butterflies.

I just bought some Profusion zinnias (mildew resistant, single) and some marigolds for the butterflies. I'm keeping the cherry, white and apricot zinnias from the mix and giving the orange ones to a neighbor.

I'm not doing much planting because of the drought. The lantana is blooming, though.

Posted by: KT at May 23, 2015 03:14 PM (qahv/)

57 55
I have a tomato in my bed that must have self seeded as well. I love surprises.

Posted by: CaliGirl at May 23, 2015 03:14 PM (BHl9S)

58 This post puts ace's movie review posts to shame.

Posted by: Cruzinator at May 23, 2015 03:14 PM (8cSVB)

59 Thanks for the photo, CaliGirl. The sulphur burner looks a little elaborate for us. It is fun to hear how it is done on a farm.

Posted by: KT at May 23, 2015 03:17 PM (qahv/)

60 Follow the link WD. Rebuttal to the poster.

Posted by: Y-not on the phone at May 23, 2015 03:20 PM (RWGcK)

61 yay

got the old concrete post bottoms from the back neighbors fence what blew down dug out with my trusty digging bar

and now I've got to stop until i get a building permit.

all in all not bad

Posted by: Bigby's Knuckle Sandwich at May 23, 2015 03:20 PM (8i7dG)

62 KT will keep you posted about the caterpillars as the season goes along. Right now the garden doesn't have anything but gnats.

Posted by: Truly St. Cyr at May 23, 2015 03:22 PM (WygWf)

63 I'm trying to dig up a bush and a bushy tree to plant gardenias instead. Apparently this is really difficult (started a couple weeks ago and broke a shovel. I had to buy a new one) so I'm procrastinating by running around shopping.

Posted by: Lea at May 23, 2015 03:23 PM (G1u1h)

64 Oh, and our peas are coming up. Poor hubby didn't get much gardening done while home, but he got the kids to help plant a few things.

Lettuce, peas, and blackberries!

And my wildflowers continue to mock me. The plants got huge, just look like overgrown weeds. Now they are finally blooming, but one at a time, so it still mostly looks like weeds with a few flowers...and then a few flowers of a different color.

Posted by: Mama AJ at May 23, 2015 03:24 PM (0xTsz)

65 CaliGirl,

I think you can just fertilize your amaryllis bulbs with regular balanced houseplant fertilizer. Are you growing Naked Ladies - the pink ones - or florist's amaryllis (hippeastrum, the kind people get for Christmas gifts)?

Posted by: KT at May 23, 2015 03:28 PM (qahv/)

66
The largest PowerBall jackpot ever won was $590.5 million, 2 years ago by Gladys MacKenzie, who was 85 years old. Hope she is still enjoying her filthy lucre.

Posted by: Bruce But Not Jenner at May 23, 2015 03:29 PM (iQIUe)

67 #63
Last year I joined a support group for procrastinators. We haven't met yet!

Posted by: Velvet Ambition at May 23, 2015 03:30 PM (R8hU8)

68 One of our fig trees has lost all it's leaves but appears to have healthy leaf buds. It also has about a dozen immature figs. The other tree's leaves are all yellow and droopy and I'm not seeing anything that looks like healthy buds. It's also lost the few immature figs it had. I suspect that one isn't going to make it. My guess is that too much water is the cause of the issue.

Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette at May 23, 2015 03:32 PM (GDulk)

69 Last year I joined a support group for procrastinators. We haven't met yet!

Posted by: Velvet Ambition

At least you joined--I haven't gotten around to even that part yet.

Posted by: Turd Ferguson at May 23, 2015 03:35 PM (VAsIq)

70 Lea at May 23, 2015 03:23 PM:

Yes, digging up bushes and trees can be a real challenge. Were they dead or alive?

In our neighborhood, a house was just re-built, and the contractors took out a palm tree with a backhoe. They are especially difficult to cut down, but the plant is dead once the top is gone.

Posted by: KT at May 23, 2015 03:36 PM (qahv/)

71 Keena,

Imagine having apples and all those veggies so early!

Glad you liked the milkweed info.

Posted by: KT at May 23, 2015 03:39 PM (qahv/)

72 KT, is the Swamp Milkweed thing fixed? CBD was going to tend to it.

Posted by: Y-not at May 23, 2015 03:39 PM (RWGcK)

73 Garlic and other bulbs can be protected from rodents from below by lining the bottom of a raised bed with hardware cloth - 1/2 inch for gophers, maybe 1/4 inch for moles and such. You can lay aviary wire over the top of the bed while the bulbs are dormant to prevent predation from the top.

Once I sized a narrow bed next to a fence to fit over an off-the-shelf roll of hardware cloth. Made it from cinder blocks, lined with plastic. No tools necessary except scissors to cut the plastic.

Posted by: KT at May 23, 2015 03:43 PM (qahv/)

74 Yes. It's fixed. Looks great. Y-not and CBD.

Posted by: KT at May 23, 2015 03:44 PM (qahv/)

75 Y-not, if the wet weather gets to your tomato plants and you have to re-plant late, cherry tomatoes are a good bet. Sungold is early, and tastes great.

Posted by: KT at May 23, 2015 03:46 PM (qahv/)

76 Madame Butterfly told the story of an American sailor, B.F. Pinkerton, ...
--------------------

BOO..., HISS..., BOOOOOO

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at May 23, 2015 03:48 PM (n6Nt0)

77 KT

http://tinypic.com/r/v4qijt/8
The one that isn't growing was from Christmas. The others my husband got from the seed company. I don't know which they are.

Posted by: CaliGirl at May 23, 2015 03:49 PM (BHl9S)

78 Y-not, if the wet weather gets to your tomato plants and you have to re-plant late, cherry tomatoes are a good bet. Sungold is early, and tastes great.
---

I may do that.

It's raining here again. Very wet here. Ugh.

Posted by: Y-not at May 23, 2015 03:49 PM (RWGcK)

79 I think my Holly bush has died over the Winter. Don't know what killed it. Maybe old age. Don't know what their life span is.

Posted by: Ronster at May 23, 2015 03:51 PM (xElWh)

80 It's raining here again. Very wet here. Ugh.
Posted by: Y-not
---------

S'plody tomatoes.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at May 23, 2015 03:52 PM (n6Nt0)

81 Thanks for the wildflower report, Mama AJ. I wouldn't be surprised if there were some actual weeds in with the wildflowers. Just as if they were in the wild.

Heh.

Posted by: KT at May 23, 2015 03:52 PM (qahv/)

82 Raining here again. I feel like I've been transported to Seattle, except I can't see the ocean because of the mountains. Supposed to be snowing above 10,000 feet. Leaving for Vegas on Thursday and I have to cross a couple of passes that are higher than that.
It's been raining almost the entire month of May.

Posted by: Old Blue at May 23, 2015 03:54 PM (9iR5/)

83 KT
tomato plants staked.
http://tinypic.com/r/2hojpc4/8
My husband doesn't want me pull any because we aren't selling them. He doesn't want any hurt feelings. The guy in charge of this ranch thinks they are OK. I will post more pics as they progress.

Posted by: CaliGirl at May 23, 2015 03:54 PM (BHl9S)

84 Those are Hippeastrum plants, CaliGirl. What florists call "Amaryllis". They are beautiful. Tip some plants out of the pots to see if they look pot-bound. They don't need to be repotted every year, but if the roots look really crowded, it might be time.

Posted by: KT at May 23, 2015 03:58 PM (qahv/)

85 CaliGirl,

Looks like the tomatoes might be set up for Florida Weave support. Air circulation isn't as big an issue in your area as it is in more humid areas, so maybe the close spacing won't matter too much.

Posted by: KT at May 23, 2015 04:03 PM (qahv/)

86 I went to check on my guys in the grapes and they are each holding a quail petting them. I don't know how they caught them.

Posted by: CaliGirl at May 23, 2015 04:04 PM (BHl9S)

87 Try not to disturb your amaryllis (hippeastrum) roots too much. They resent that. If they look OK for this season, you might want to re-plant in a slightly larger pot while the plants are dormant. You will want to drastically cut back on water then.

Posted by: KT at May 23, 2015 04:06 PM (qahv/)

88 KT
Thanks, I will check the pots. My husband just brings this stuff home and I don't know anything. The seed salesman will bring a box to the office and everyone takes some.

Posted by: CaliGirl at May 23, 2015 04:07 PM (BHl9S)

89 I got drunk one time in Grand Junction with the Iron Butterfly drummer. Don't remember much except his hearing was pretty bad.

Posted by: Eromero at May 23, 2015 04:07 PM (go5uR)

90 I love to see quails. Had a family of them in a yard where I was renting once.

Posted by: KT at May 23, 2015 04:07 PM (qahv/)

91 When do they go dormant? They sent new leaves all winter. We had a very mild winter.

Posted by: CaliGirl at May 23, 2015 04:08 PM (BHl9S)

92 KT
My zone is 9b

Posted by: CaliGirl at May 23, 2015 04:11 PM (BHl9S)

93 The winter did a number on our butterfly bush. I hacked back to the ground last week and it has some green shoots. I planted two more today. Next year the should be in full flower.

Posted by: fluffy at May 23, 2015 04:17 PM (Ua6T/)

94 KT
I live very close to the Monarch groves in Nipomo and pismo beach. We went there with Girl Scouts. I drive by those all the time.

Posted by: CaliGirl at May 23, 2015 04:19 PM (BHl9S)

95 I love to see quails. Had a family of them in a yard where I was renting once.


Posted by: KT

I've been in the woods in the southeast my entire life (46) never seen a wild quail. Until here. I've seen them several times, stomping through the woods and had them fly up, just couldn't get a good enough look to see what it was. Then the other day I saw one run out of a little clump of deep grass at a field margin so I got a good look. So looking back I've probably jumped them at least ten times since last September. Also, started specifically listening for them, yep, they are there, every evening and morning. I'd imagine they really like my pig field, it's deep cover with lots of grain and grass seed heads.

Posted by: traye at May 23, 2015 04:28 PM (VveEI)

96 I had a couple quail stop by for a week about a month ago. I put grain out for them and all of a sudden they were gone. Have never seen any around in 70 plus years.

Posted by: Ronster at May 23, 2015 04:31 PM (xElWh)

97 95
The quail are around the chicken coop. They put the nests on the ground in bushes. They run and fly away when I get near. I petted them. My guy had the female resting in the palm of his hand. It could have flown away, but didn't. This guy handles the bees as well. He has a green thumb as well. It is called a hot hand in Spanish.

Posted by: CaliGirl at May 23, 2015 04:32 PM (BHl9S)

98 CaliGirl,

You amaryllis should go dormant sometime in the summer. They come from a dry summer-wet winter climate.

True Amaryllis (Naked Ladies) bloom while they are dormant, so they have no leaves when the flowers bloom.

I have been to the butterfly grove near Pismo. It is really something to see. I've also seen Monarchs fly out over the ocean near Los Osos. Their navigation systems seemed to be slightly off. Some were coming back inland.

Posted by: KT at May 23, 2015 04:38 PM (qahv/)

99 >>79 I think my Holly bush has died over the Winter. Don't know what killed it.

Boosh's fault!

Posted by: Y-not at May 23, 2015 04:38 PM (RWGcK)

100 Just got back from a two-mojito late lunch out, dashed home ahead of the now-daily thunderstorm, and now I see this thread packed with milkweed and butterfly awesomeness. Thanks, KT, as well as Y-not and Weirddave.

Posted by: stace at May 23, 2015 04:38 PM (CoX6k)

101 There are some evergreen amaryllis species. You might have a hybrid with one of them that never goes dormant. But if your plants start to look like they are ready for a rest, quit watering them.

Posted by: KT at May 23, 2015 04:40 PM (qahv/)

102 Boosh's fault!

No doubt.

Posted by: Ronster at May 23, 2015 04:40 PM (xElWh)

103 98 KT
I have never seen them in Los Osos. They are magnificent. I haven't went to the groves in a long time.

Posted by: CaliGirl at May 23, 2015 04:42 PM (BHl9S)

104 Nood open thread.

Posted by: Y-not at May 23, 2015 04:43 PM (RWGcK)

105 My wife's amaryllis bloom 3 or 4 times a year. The last time they had 5 blossoms. I've never seen them go dormant, of course I don't pay much attention.

Posted by: Ronster at May 23, 2015 04:46 PM (xElWh)

106 KT
I will watch for that. Thanks for the help, I appreciate it.

Posted by: CaliGirl at May 23, 2015 04:46 PM (BHl9S)

107 This is only our third season for vegetable gardening. One completely unexpected benefit has been developing some patience, of which I have almost none. I figured I would enjoy the catalogs and planning, even preparing the beds. But I thought I would just grit my teeth waiting for the first harvest. While there's eagerness and pleasure in the process there isn't impatience. (No flower jokes, please.) Instead, there's enjoyment in each phase and any signs of progress. A much more pleasant way to live. I try to apply that attitude to others parts of living.

Posted by: JTB at May 23, 2015 04:56 PM (FvdPb)

108 I'll tell my friend who's in charge of the neighborhood butterfly garden about the tropical milkweed issue. That's what they planted, although they also have some seedballs of some other species they're going to play with. She's done her research, but I'll make sure she knows.

Those fritillaries really chew up the passionvines every year, but I think they're worth it. The leaves seem to grow back pretty fast.

Posted by: stace at May 23, 2015 05:05 PM (CoX6k)

109 Is there a way to look up past gardening threads? I would love to look over them, but can't find a way to do it concisely.

Posted by: Sambo at May 23, 2015 05:09 PM (0Txm0)

110 Was weeding flower beds but came in for a break and to change out of a white tank top. Thrips have got to be high on my I hate this bug I can't get rid of list!
Flowers are gorgeous though!

Posted by: FCF at May 23, 2015 05:32 PM (kejii)

111 I have raised Gulf Fritillaries before, Stace. They are, indeed, known to decimate certain species of passionvines. The caterpillars remind me of some sort of Chinese ceremonial dragon for some reason. I like the butterflies because they seem to be especially active around people in the garden.

Sometime we probably should do a segment on the Fritillaries and their relatives here. Have you ever seen a Zebra Longwing, like the one in the photo Y-not posted? Their caterpillars eat passionvines, too. I thing the chrysalis of the Variegated Fritillary is especially interesting.

Passionvines can be invasive. Watch that their roots don't go where they are not wanted.

Posted by: KT at May 23, 2015 05:53 PM (qahv/)

112 Madame Butterfly, set in Nagasaki

Popular city for music. Mills Brothers here:
Back in Nagasaki where the brothers chew tabaccy. . . . .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y61mL66lwcQ

Posted by: KT at May 23, 2015 06:13 PM (qahv/)

113 Posted by: KT at May 23, 2015 05:53 PM (qahv/)

I do see the zebra longwings around here, but I didn't know they use the passionvine too. I had to google that variegated fritillary,and that is a cool looking chrysalis.

Posted by: stace at May 23, 2015 06:14 PM (CoX6k)

114 CaliGirl at May 23, 2015 04:32 PM
Really interesting experiences with the quail.

Posted by: KT at May 23, 2015 06:16 PM (qahv/)

115 ...A much more pleasant way to live. I try to apply that attitude to others parts of living.
Posted by: JTB at May 23, 2015 04:56 PM

Very true, it's about enjoying the journey, not just getting to the destination.

Posted by: Farmer at May 23, 2015 06:23 PM (o/90i)

116 Last weekend I got to play human spray boom by sitting on the tailgate of a pickup and working a Solo sprayer full of roundup.
Didn't work, I was just out to check

Either I mixed wrong, I didn't pump hard enough or the chemical is now spoiled.

I'm going to have to get a real pump and sprayer and get a boom built. *sigh*

Posted by: Kindltot at May 23, 2015 06:55 PM (t//F+)

117 109
Sambo,

Only way I know of is to go to the archives in the lower right corner of the main page, then go to each Saturday afternoon - one by one.

It's worth the trouble. Lots of good stuuf from smart people here...

Posted by: chi's sandwIch (previously shredded chi) at May 23, 2015 07:19 PM (BISbA)

118 It just dawned on me that Y-not corrected the text of an article with regard to the protein molecule that builds the long struts in butterfly wings.

Plus, she posted a video with Maria Callas singing Puccini. Pretty impressive.

Posted by: KT bar the door at May 23, 2015 07:59 PM (qahv/)

119 Last weekend I got to play human spray boom by sitting on the tailgate of a pickup and working a Solo sprayer full of roundup.
Didn't work, I was just out to check
Either I mixed wrong, I didn't pump hard enough or the chemical is now spoiled.
I'm going to have to get a real pump and sprayer and get a boom built. *sigh*
Posted by: Kindltot at May 23, 2015 06:55 PM

Roundup or any form of gy...whatever is very dependent on the weather. Plants have to be very actively growing. Warm enough and wet enough so they aren't dormant.

I'm a fool, tried to get a jump on things and sprayed when it was too cold. Damn weeds survived and had to spray again.

Posted by: Farmer at May 23, 2015 09:08 PM (o/90i)

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