Support
Contact
Ace:
aceofspadeshq at gee mail.com
CBD:
cbd.aoshq at gee mail.com
Buck:
buck.throckmorton at protonmail.com
joe mannix:
mannix2024 at proton.me
MisHum:
petmorons at gee mail.com
J.J. Sefton:
sefton at cutjibnewsletter.com
aceofspadeshq at gee mail.com
CBD:
cbd.aoshq at gee mail.com
Buck:
buck.throckmorton at protonmail.com
joe mannix:
mannix2024 at proton.me
MisHum:
petmorons at gee mail.com
J.J. Sefton:
sefton at cutjibnewsletter.com
Obama Fails, As Usual, Losing on Trade Authority Fast-Track in Senate
Obama must really like failure, because he's always doing it.
The bill would have put Obama's Trans Pacific Partnership trade bill on fast-track scheduling -- limited debate, no amendments. Liberals, led by famous Cherokee Princess Elizabeth Warren, have objected that no one has any idea what the terms (so far) of this evolving trade deal are, because they're classified. They also object to providing protections for foreign corporations doing business in the US -- these protections do not really exist to protect foreign corporations against American litigants, but to protect American corporations from corrupt foreign litigants. (See the Chevron case.) Republicans generally support the bill because that's what they do now, they uncritically support anything with the words "trade" or "freedom" in the title.Senate Democrats on Tuesday delivered a stinging blow to President Obama’s trade agenda by voting to prevent the chamber from picking up fast-track legislation. A motion to cut off a filibuster and proceed to the trade bell fell short of a 60-vote hurdle. Sen. Tom Carper (Del.) was the only Democrat to back it. ... Labor unions and other left-leaning groups have declared war on the fast-track bill, which they argue has shipped jobs overseas. The Senate is generally a more pro-trade body than the House, and it has been easier to move trade agreements through the upper chamber. ...
The White House downplayed the defeat, with press secretary Josh Earnest describing it as a "procedural snafu." "It is not unprecedented for the U.S. Senate to encounter procedural snafus," he said. "We're going to continue to work through these challenges."
The White House are very experienced at downplaying failures. They're also very good at insulting people. As David French has observed, and I will never get tired of quoting, the left -- particularly the academic left, which Obama likes to think of himself a part of -- does not argue, it simply assigns stigma. It smears. It insults. The idea is not to win on the truth of an idea, in the classic manner of philosophy, but to prove one's political power to arrange a majority of Hatred against one's opponent. Ideas are not proven to be true or false in this small-minded, vicious little system. Rather, the people advancing ideas are either demonstrated to be the victors -- the ones who are more socially connected and better able to gin up majorities of hatred -- or the Racists. The left does not talk about ideas; they talk about people exclusively, and they are only capable of labeling their opponents ignorant or acting in bad faith (racism, political motives, etc.). I note this because Brent Budowsky, one of the most toxically nasty progressives permitted to write columns in major media (he writes in The Hill, usually), is complaining that Obama has done nothing but name-call his liberal opponents in this dispute. Instapundit correctly notes that that's all Obama does when people disagree with him, whether they be liberal or conservative or politician or private citizen (like Joe the Plumber). But Budowsky only objects when it's done to liberals, because he agrees with this tactic of conducting all "debate" not on the issue but on the subject of one's opponent's character and intelligence, like all nasty progressives. Still, it's worth noting what Budowsky accuses Obama of here. Sound familiar?
President Obama's performance in pushing for approval of fast track legislation of the Trans Pacific Partnership trade deal, in which he’s allied with Republicans and has spent the last week castigating and insulting liberal Democrats, has been one of the most bizarre and ill-advised performances of his presidency. I spent many years working for senior Democratic Senators such as Lloyd Bentsen and House Democratic leaders beginning with the legendary Speaker Tip O'Neill, and have never seen any president of either party insult so many members of his own party's base and members of the House and Senate as Mr. Obama has in his weeks of tirades against liberals on trade. In Mr. Obama's speech at Nike last week, his comments to Matt Bai of Yahoo over the weekend, and White House press secretary Josh Early’s comments to reporters on Monday, Mr. Obama and his White House staff have repeated a string of personal insults directed against prominent liberal Democrats in Congress, liberal Democrats across the nation, organized labor, and leading public interest and environmental groups who share doubts about the TPP trade deal. Mr. Obama's tirades on trade have included accusations that these liberal Democrats are ignorant about trade policy, insincere when offering their opinions, motivated by politics and not the national interest, and backward looking towards the past.Gee I've never heard any of those insults before.
Obama's repeated attacks against Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.), in which he charged that Warren’s concern about the trade bill is motivated not by a reasoned view of what is right for America but by her personal political motivations, is one of the most dishonest and repellant examples of character assassination and contempt by any American president, against any leading member of his own party, in my lifetime.Again, so long as it's directed against conservatives: Game on, right? Update: As David French observed (see? never gets old), the left is just an nasty backbiting university department, writ large, with hyperpersonalized social smear campaigns against all and sundry. Obama did it to Warren; now it's Warren's allies' chance to get their own back. Sherrod Brown just accused Obama, who is by the way a sexist, of being a sexist.
Ohio Sen. Sherrod Brown, one of the top Democratic opponents of President Barack Obama’s trade agenda, criticized Obama on Tuesday for what the senator saw as "disrespectful" comments toward Sen. Elizabeth Warren and indicated that Warren's gender may be at issue. ... "I think the president was disrespectful to her by the way he did that," Brown told reporters during a news conference following the failed procedural vote. "I think that the president has made this more personal than he needed to." ... "I'm not going to get into more details," Brown said. "I think referring to her as first-name, when he might not have done that for a male senator, perhaps? I've said enough."The first-name thing is his evidence for the Sexist smear? I mean, don't get me wrong; Obama is a sexist, but this isn't any kind of evidence of that. But again, that's all these people know. Without this-- what are they?
Comments
(Jump to bottom of comments)1
fuck him
Posted by: Couch Fucker at May 12, 2015 03:43 PM (ecDRv)
2
missed it by this () much.
Posted by: Sambo at May 12, 2015 03:44 PM (ZzAhC)
3
He's good at Fail and destroying the country. So he's got that going for him.
Posted by: Jane D'oh at May 12, 2015 03:44 PM (FsuaD)
Posted by: Lauren at May 12, 2015 03:45 PM (MYCIw)
5
I love watching Dems eat their own.
I hate Warren with a passion, but the idea of her being a pain in Obama's wart-raddled bung warms the frosty cockles of my shrivelled little heart.
I hate Warren with a passion, but the idea of her being a pain in Obama's wart-raddled bung warms the frosty cockles of my shrivelled little heart.
Posted by: Cranky J Anne at May 12, 2015 03:46 PM (zhriN)
6
Sheesh -- they are milking this Madison shooting announcement for all it's worth. Yes or No.
Sheesh -- they are milking this Madison shooting announcement for all it's worth. Yes or No.
Posted by: Bruce J. at May 12, 2015 03:47 PM (iQIUe)
7
Presser on Fox. Another one of the JEF's imaginary sons shot by a racist cop.
Posted by: Jane D'oh at May 12, 2015 03:47 PM (FsuaD)
8
3
He's good at Fail and destroying the country. So he's got that going for him.
Posted by: Jane D'oh at May 12, 2015 03:44 PM (FsuaD)
He didn't build that on his own. Someone else made that happen for him.
He's good at Fail and destroying the country. So he's got that going for him.
Posted by: Jane D'oh at May 12, 2015 03:44 PM (FsuaD)
He didn't build that on his own. Someone else made that happen for him.
Posted by: Liawatha at May 12, 2015 03:48 PM (ecDRv)
9
You know, this is what I like about Democrats - they are not afraid to actually do something. They will actually take action to move their agenda forward. Unlike our guys who will only posture and bluff, then go along. Granted, the Democrats are nearly always doing the wrong thing, but at least they are doing something.
Posted by: Sambo at May 12, 2015 03:48 PM (ZzAhC)
10
Barack Obama is a SCOAMT.
Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - TrueCon at May 12, 2015 03:48 PM (kff5f)
11
Otherizing. The hobgoblin of small minds.
Posted by: alexthechick - Oh please intervene SMOD at May 12, 2015 03:48 PM (mf5HN)
Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - TrueCon at May 12, 2015 03:48 PM (kff5f)
13
Conservatives need to stop whoring themselves out to Free Trade zealots.
Do we need to lose all of our manufacturing jobs before we realize that these policies mainly help the 3rd world at the expense of the US?
I don't understand how conservatives can understand that open borders for migrants absolutely hurts the American worker and serves the Chamber of Commerce slave masters, but have no issue with corporations pushing these types of "open border" deals when it comes to trade.
Glad Obama go defeated here.
Do we need to lose all of our manufacturing jobs before we realize that these policies mainly help the 3rd world at the expense of the US?
I don't understand how conservatives can understand that open borders for migrants absolutely hurts the American worker and serves the Chamber of Commerce slave masters, but have no issue with corporations pushing these types of "open border" deals when it comes to trade.
Glad Obama go defeated here.
Posted by: McAdams at May 12, 2015 03:49 PM (+nA84)
14
Lauren: "So Elizabeth Warren officially has more power than the GOPe."
More power than Obama plus the GOPe.
When does GOP leadership announce it has officially switched parties, BTW?
More power than Obama plus the GOPe.
When does GOP leadership announce it has officially switched parties, BTW?
Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at May 12, 2015 03:49 PM (1CroS)
15
This is one of those rare times when Democrats were on the right side.
Jeff Sessions opposed this bill and Mitch McConnell joined Obama in pushing for it.
Jeff Sessions opposed this bill and Mitch McConnell joined Obama in pushing for it.
Posted by: Jon (not the troll) at May 12, 2015 03:49 PM (HA+/6)
16
Oh SMOD, oh SMOD, why hast thou forsaken us!?!
Just to get this across: the Democrats are the ones acting on principle here. Think about it.
Just to get this across: the Democrats are the ones acting on principle here. Think about it.
Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - TrueCon at May 12, 2015 03:49 PM (kff5f)
17
Cut to the chase, presser boy. Is the cop going under the bus, or what?
Jeeze, this guy is giving a speech about his being bi-racial, blah blah blah.
He must be Mooch's imaginary brother.
Jeeze, this guy is giving a speech about his being bi-racial, blah blah blah.
He must be Mooch's imaginary brother.
Posted by: Jane D'oh at May 12, 2015 03:50 PM (FsuaD)
18
"Obama's tirades" sounds like he's describing himself.
And now that my normal half a break is over time to do a flash point and some clean up.
Tomorrow, taking the day off to do some fishing and some digging.
Some to plant a tree.
Some to find out more about Jade Helm 15.
And now that my normal half a break is over time to do a flash point and some clean up.
Tomorrow, taking the day off to do some fishing and some digging.
Some to plant a tree.
Some to find out more about Jade Helm 15.
Posted by: teej at May 12, 2015 03:50 PM (qyZxC)
19
Everything Ace writes should be required reading for all "progressives." Every day.
In my sadistic fantasy world of evil, I would lock up all the nation's progressive "thought leaders" in a plush, comfortable isolated island resort, where there is no internet, no TV or radio, no machines of any kind allowed -- so these political addicts will be absolutely starved for information and craving the latest news on current events. Then you announce to them that they will be allowed to read a single source of info about politics, culture and news -- and they've howl for it, desperately.
Then you print out out each Ace post as it appears, and distribute copies to everyone on the island.
Sorta like the final scenes of Clockwork Orange, but without the toothpicks.
Seriously, I think it would change their hearts and minds after a while.
In my sadistic fantasy world of evil, I would lock up all the nation's progressive "thought leaders" in a plush, comfortable isolated island resort, where there is no internet, no TV or radio, no machines of any kind allowed -- so these political addicts will be absolutely starved for information and craving the latest news on current events. Then you announce to them that they will be allowed to read a single source of info about politics, culture and news -- and they've howl for it, desperately.
Then you print out out each Ace post as it appears, and distribute copies to everyone on the island.
Sorta like the final scenes of Clockwork Orange, but without the toothpicks.
Seriously, I think it would change their hearts and minds after a while.
Posted by: zombie at May 12, 2015 03:51 PM (jBuUi)
20
Give me a longsword, +1, and I'll slay that hobgoblin.
Posted by: Moderate Salami at May 12, 2015 03:51 PM (/Ho8c)
Posted by: Ricardo Kill at May 12, 2015 03:51 PM (LA7Cm)
22
I wish he had failed so spectacularly in 2007.
Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at May 12, 2015 03:51 PM (V8fhv)
Posted by: Pres'nt Obama at May 12, 2015 03:51 PM (VAsIq)
24
I don't understand how conservatives can understand
that open borders for migrants absolutely hurts the American worker and
serves the Chamber of Commerce slave masters, but have no issue with
corporations pushing these types of "open border" deals when it comes to
trade.
Glad Obama go defeated here.
Posted by: McAdams at May 12, 2015 03:49 PM (+nA84)
It's easy when you realize that they don't care as long as that sweet, sweet graft keeps flowing.
that open borders for migrants absolutely hurts the American worker and
serves the Chamber of Commerce slave masters, but have no issue with
corporations pushing these types of "open border" deals when it comes to
trade.
Glad Obama go defeated here.
Posted by: McAdams at May 12, 2015 03:49 PM (+nA84)
It's easy when you realize that they don't care as long as that sweet, sweet graft keeps flowing.
Posted by: Liawatha at May 12, 2015 03:52 PM (ecDRv)
25
argumentum ad hominem
Posted by: davidt at May 12, 2015 03:52 PM (XPfM7)
26
So, has Hiawatha Warren now surpassed Khloe Kardashian as the Most Powerful Squaw in the World?
Posted by: zombie at May 12, 2015 03:53 PM (jBuUi)
Posted by: hobgoblin at May 12, 2015 03:53 PM (XIXZz)
28
A motion to cut off a filibuster and proceed to the trade bell fell short of a 60-vote hurdle.
Shit, good thing we didn't win a super-majority, huh?
Shit, good thing we didn't win a super-majority, huh?
Posted by: t-bird at May 12, 2015 03:53 PM (FcR7P)
29
Okay. I have a stupid question.
I thought, and I have no idea where I got this, that Senators are all cleared on at least some level to view classified information.
So how can the Senators not be allowed to see the trade deal because it's classified?
I thought, and I have no idea where I got this, that Senators are all cleared on at least some level to view classified information.
So how can the Senators not be allowed to see the trade deal because it's classified?
Posted by: alexthechick - Oh please intervene SMOD at May 12, 2015 03:53 PM (mf5HN)
30
Is this union thuggery against crony fascism? Is there anything not to like in this cabaret show?
Posted by: Kraken at May 12, 2015 03:53 PM (sdxPm)
Posted by: imp at May 12, 2015 03:53 PM (XIXZz)
32
Obama must really like failure, because he's always doing it.
Well, at least he's good at umbrella handling, hoops, first pitch throwing, bowling, and riding a girl's bike.
Oh wait. He sucks at all those things, too.
Well, at least he's good at umbrella handling, hoops, first pitch throwing, bowling, and riding a girl's bike.
Oh wait. He sucks at all those things, too.
Posted by: Jane D'oh at May 12, 2015 03:54 PM (FsuaD)
33
I don't want Fauxchohantas as president. If Obama hobbles her, that's just fine with me.
Posted by: Obummer at May 12, 2015 03:54 PM (xkSSa)
34
It's amazing how easy it is for the minority party in the Senate to stop Obama's agenda instantly.
Too bad the real opposition Party that actually control the Senate can't do the same thing.
Too bad the real opposition Party that actually control the Senate can't do the same thing.
Posted by: McAdams at May 12, 2015 03:54 PM (+nA84)
Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at May 12, 2015 03:54 PM (V8fhv)
36
In a surprise maneuver, Obama has just appointed his horse to lead the Senate.
Oh wait, that's Kerry eating a bowl of oatmeal. My bad.
Oh wait, that's Kerry eating a bowl of oatmeal. My bad.
Posted by: zombie at May 12, 2015 03:54 PM (jBuUi)
37
"Liberals, led by famous Cherokee Princess Elizabeth Warren, have objected that no one has any idea what the terms (so far) of this evolving trade deal are, because they're classified."
Never stopped them before. Schadenboner....
Never stopped them before. Schadenboner....
Posted by: CrotchetyOldJarhead on a new tablet at May 12, 2015 03:54 PM (60Vyp)
38
Everything Ace writes should be required reading for all "progressives." Every day.
-----
Eh, eventually they'll learn to skip straight to the comments.
-----
Eh, eventually they'll learn to skip straight to the comments.
Posted by: Turd Ferguson at May 12, 2015 03:54 PM (VAsIq)
39
If Walker is smart he will come out against this bill (so far I think that Rand Paul is the only 2016er who has).
Cruz is in favor of it, which is no surprise since he's a Chamber of Commerce corporatist on immigration too.
Cruz is in favor of it, which is no surprise since he's a Chamber of Commerce corporatist on immigration too.
Posted by: Jon (not the troll) at May 12, 2015 03:55 PM (HA+/6)
Posted by: flounder at May 12, 2015 03:55 PM (ecDRv)
41
"So how can the Senators not be allowed to see the trade deal because it's classified? "
Must be something in the thing that he thinks will piss people off.
Must be something in the thing that he thinks will piss people off.
Posted by: Ricardo Kill at May 12, 2015 03:55 PM (LA7Cm)
42
Well, that's because conservatives are:
"ignorant about trade policy, insincere when offering their opinions, motivated by politics and not the national interest, and backward looking towards the past."
So there.
"ignorant about trade policy, insincere when offering their opinions, motivated by politics and not the national interest, and backward looking towards the past."
So there.
Posted by: Progressives everywhere at May 12, 2015 03:55 PM (1Rgee)
43
Speaking of failure, what ever happened to that sweet Iran deal?
Posted by: SpongeBobSaget at May 12, 2015 03:56 PM (zauWW)
44
Three cheers for our conservative anti-Obama hero, Elizabeth Warren!
Posted by: zombie at May 12, 2015 03:56 PM (jBuUi)
45
Not you, hobgoblin. Them other 'uns.
Posted by: Moderate Salami at May 12, 2015 03:56 PM (/Ho8c)
46
The real news here is that I am left pinning my hopes on Elizabeth Warren, and hoping that Obama and his GOPe Butt Boys serve up more failure.
Posted by: The Profit MoMo the Malevolent at May 12, 2015 03:56 PM (hKyl0)
47
So up is down and Repub's support the President and Dem's appose. What a screwed up world.
Posted by: wrg500 at May 12, 2015 03:57 PM (sgrzZ)
48
The Battle of San Jacinto was just a procedural snafu.
Posted by: Santa Anna at May 12, 2015 03:57 PM (ppaKI)
49
This President will declassify a top secret op, kill Usama bint Bedliner, to make a fawning movie. But will try to classify a trade agreement.
This guy is crooked, makes the Ebola virus look straight.
This guy is crooked, makes the Ebola virus look straight.
Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at May 12, 2015 03:57 PM (V8fhv)
50
Three cheers for our conservative anti-Obama hero, Elizabeth Warren!
Posted by: zombie
*blinks*
Words I never thought to read.
Posted by: zombie
*blinks*
Words I never thought to read.
Posted by: Moderate Salami at May 12, 2015 03:57 PM (/Ho8c)
51
47 So up is down and Repub's support the President and Dem's appose. What a screwed up world.
Posted by: wrg500 at May 12, 2015 03:57 PM (sgrzZ)
The Kinks wrote a song about it.
Posted by: wrg500 at May 12, 2015 03:57 PM (sgrzZ)
The Kinks wrote a song about it.
Posted by: Kraken at May 12, 2015 03:58 PM (sdxPm)
52
Anyone watching this interminable racist presser from Wisconsin?
What a long-winded airbag this guy is. Kinda like the JEF.
What a long-winded airbag this guy is. Kinda like the JEF.
Posted by: Jane D'oh at May 12, 2015 03:58 PM (FsuaD)
53
47 So up is down and Repub's support the President and Dem's appose. What a screwed up world.
Posted by: wrg500
In this crazy mixed-up 2015 world,
up is down
but down is also down.
Reality is now a Klein Bottle of misery and negative outcomes.
Posted by: wrg500
In this crazy mixed-up 2015 world,
up is down
but down is also down.
Reality is now a Klein Bottle of misery and negative outcomes.
Posted by: zombie at May 12, 2015 03:58 PM (jBuUi)
54
Obama rode hatred into power.
Posted by: Clinton Family Motto at May 12, 2015 03:58 PM (RJMhd)
55
wrg500, the British at Yorktown played a tune that fits these times 'World Turn'd Upside Down' as they surrendered.
Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at May 12, 2015 03:58 PM (V8fhv)
Posted by: wrg500 at May 12, 2015 03:59 PM (sgrzZ)
57
I genuinely think the GOP's embrace of Free Trade threw away the coalition Nixon and Reagan had built that could win 49 states.
For whatever reason, people in manufacturing jobs tended to be conservative. A service economy though seems to overwhelmingly favor Democrats.
I guess I'm just too dense to understand how everything now being made by Communist China and all of our factories being shut down is a win for the average American.
Sort of like how all of this cheap 3rd world labor has been great for blue collar Americans.
For whatever reason, people in manufacturing jobs tended to be conservative. A service economy though seems to overwhelmingly favor Democrats.
I guess I'm just too dense to understand how everything now being made by Communist China and all of our factories being shut down is a win for the average American.
Sort of like how all of this cheap 3rd world labor has been great for blue collar Americans.
Posted by: McAdams at May 12, 2015 03:59 PM (+nA84)
58
A trade bill that we have to pass to find out what's in it?
No thank you.
Posted by: Ricardo Kill
......................................
It's sooper sekrit so shut up. But I can guarantee best prices on hotel rooms everywhere.
A trade bill that we have to pass to find out what's in it?
No thank you.
Posted by: Ricardo Kill
......................................
It's sooper sekrit so shut up. But I can guarantee best prices on hotel rooms everywhere.
Posted by: Hussein, Sooper Negotiator and Commander-In-Chief!!! at May 12, 2015 03:59 PM (wAQA5)
59
Is it just me, or does no part of this entire sorry scenario make a single f***ing particle of sense, at all?
Posted by: Brother Cavil, down with Eph 6:12 at May 12, 2015 03:59 PM (DT3rQ)
60
If I stay here with you Warren,
Things just couldn't be the same
'Cause I'm as free as a bird now
And this bird you cannot change
Things just couldn't be the same
'Cause I'm as free as a bird now
And this bird you cannot change
Posted by: Ronnie Van Obama at May 12, 2015 03:59 PM (xkSSa)
61
50
Three cheers for our conservative anti-Obama hero, Elizabeth Warren!
Posted by: zombie
*blinks*
Words I never thought to read.
Posted by: Moderate Salami at May 12, 2015 03:57 PM (/Ho8c)
I kind of wonder if that is the point of this theater? Set up Liawatha as some acceptable anti-Obama moderate.
Three cheers for our conservative anti-Obama hero, Elizabeth Warren!
Posted by: zombie
*blinks*
Words I never thought to read.
Posted by: Moderate Salami at May 12, 2015 03:57 PM (/Ho8c)
I kind of wonder if that is the point of this theater? Set up Liawatha as some acceptable anti-Obama moderate.
Posted by: flounder at May 12, 2015 03:59 PM (ecDRv)
62
Does ANYONE trust Obama? His own party doesn't?
I am sort of glad this went down. It gave Obama too much sell out power.
Fcuk him. Let it burn.
I am sort of glad this went down. It gave Obama too much sell out power.
Fcuk him. Let it burn.
Posted by: Nip Sip at May 12, 2015 03:59 PM (0FSuD)
63
Yeah, I'm not buying the "Fauxcahontas make big war on evil 0Bama" garbage; this is merely the both of them separating the annointed 2016 DemoKKKrat POTUS candidate from the "old thug" smelling Barry.
Posted by: Mickey Shwarma at May 12, 2015 04:00 PM (sCHw2)
64
I kind of wonder if that is the point of this theater? Set up Liawatha as some acceptable anti-Obama moderate.
Posted by: flounder at May 12, 2015 03:59 PM (ecDRv)
Yeah, she's the sober, serious-minded Stalinist.
Posted by: flounder at May 12, 2015 03:59 PM (ecDRv)
Yeah, she's the sober, serious-minded Stalinist.
Posted by: Kraken at May 12, 2015 04:01 PM (sdxPm)
65
I don't understand how conservatives can understand that open borders for migrants absolutely hurts the American worker and serves the Chamber of Commerce slave masters
Really? You don't see how a party bankrolled by the Chamber of Commerce can be hostile to workers?
Really? You don't see how a party bankrolled by the Chamber of Commerce can be hostile to workers?
Posted by: Gregory of Yardale at May 12, 2015 04:01 PM (O7MnT)
66
The idea is not to win on the truth of an idea, in the classic manner of philosophy, but to prove one's political power to arrange a majority of Hatred against one's opponent.
This is the sad but true part. I really enjoy engaging in arguments about ideas, but it's hard most of the time for the argument to not be "I'm not a bad person for holding this idea".
(n.b. have only lived in the Northeast and Europe, so the majority of my friends are liberal).
The idea is not to win on the truth of an idea, in the classic manner of philosophy, but to prove one's political power to arrange a majority of Hatred against one's opponent.
This is the sad but true part. I really enjoy engaging in arguments about ideas, but it's hard most of the time for the argument to not be "I'm not a bad person for holding this idea".
(n.b. have only lived in the Northeast and Europe, so the majority of my friends are liberal).
Posted by: Bandersnatch at May 12, 2015 04:01 PM (JtwS4)
67
Speaking of failure, what ever happened to that sweet Iran deal?
Posted by: SpongeBobSaget
.............................................
I'm sorry to say they were not willing to give discounts on their hotel rooms.
Speaking of failure, what ever happened to that sweet Iran deal?
Posted by: SpongeBobSaget
.............................................
I'm sorry to say they were not willing to give discounts on their hotel rooms.
Posted by: Hussein, Sooper Negotiator and Commander-In-Chief!!! at May 12, 2015 04:01 PM (wAQA5)
68
Good This MFer should START to fail as the rest of his policies have....
Posted by: Dennis at May 12, 2015 04:01 PM (FIvdS)
69
IS Gaylord's ego small enough though to suffer such a loss at the hands of another Democrat. Judging by his previous actions, the answer is no. The guy is quite full of himself.
Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at May 12, 2015 04:01 PM (V8fhv)
70
I hate free trade. It was much better when TVs and other durable goods cost an arm and a leg.
Posted by: other stuff Jesus said at May 12, 2015 04:01 PM (n5fTN)
71
Good points, Morons of the Sea.
Posted by: Moderate Salami at May 12, 2015 04:02 PM (/Ho8c)
72
I wonder if Jesus would let The People and their representatives read an agreement before passing it?
#KillingTransparency
#KillingTransparency
Posted by: Bill O'Really at May 12, 2015 04:02 PM (1CroS)
73
What's going on in Madison WI?
Posted by: Nevergiveup at May 12, 2015 04:02 PM (rDqRv)
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at May 12, 2015 04:02 PM (St6BJ)
75
(n.b. have only lived in the Northeast and Europe, so the majority of my friends are liberal).
Posted by: Bandersnatch at May 12, 2015 04:01 PM (JtwS4)
You're tougher than me. I packed up and skeedaddled.
Posted by: Bandersnatch at May 12, 2015 04:01 PM (JtwS4)
You're tougher than me. I packed up and skeedaddled.
Posted by: Oldsailors Poet at May 12, 2015 04:02 PM (KbNXw)
76
Yeah, she's the sober, serious-minded Stalinist.
Posted by: Kraken
If you think about it, it'd be much better to have a serious-minded Stalinst running the country than a wold-eyed Stalinist.
I've been flipped by master-level concern-trollng! I'm joining the "Draft Warren for 2016" movement!!
Posted by: Kraken
If you think about it, it'd be much better to have a serious-minded Stalinst running the country than a wold-eyed Stalinist.
I've been flipped by master-level concern-trollng! I'm joining the "Draft Warren for 2016" movement!!
Posted by: zombie at May 12, 2015 04:02 PM (jBuUi)
77
wold-eyed = wild-eyed
Posted by: zombie at May 12, 2015 04:03 PM (jBuUi)
78
So the orcs are opposing Sauron while the hobbits are backing him? F**k it, I give up trying to figure this place out.
Posted by: Gandalf the Confused at May 12, 2015 04:03 PM (ppaKI)
79
73 What's going on in Madison WI?
Posted by: Nevergiveup at May 12, 2015 04:02 PM (rDqRv)
Dope smoking and STD transmission, mostly.
Posted by: Nevergiveup at May 12, 2015 04:02 PM (rDqRv)
Dope smoking and STD transmission, mostly.
Posted by: Kraken at May 12, 2015 04:03 PM (sdxPm)
80
LOL Tonya Harding playing the Enforcer in the Senate. With a lead pipe and a pair of sharp ice skates.
Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at May 12, 2015 04:03 PM (V8fhv)
81
I think the time is long-passed for a good hard cost-benefits analysis of "free trade" minus the hackneyed slogans and free trade jingoism of the Wall Street Journal editorial board ... none of whom are in danger of losing their jobs to cheap imported foreign labor.
Posted by: Gregory of Yardale at May 12, 2015 04:03 PM (O7MnT)
82
Why are posts suddenly disappearing?
I quickly visited this morning, read a few articles from the news dump, came back and now the post is gone.
And the excellent post from WeirdDave with his open letter to the blacks in Baltimore is now gone, even when I try to access it from my bookmarks.
Is this a new feature? Or is post permanency a feature of higher level AoSHQ memberships - like ampersands?
I quickly visited this morning, read a few articles from the news dump, came back and now the post is gone.
And the excellent post from WeirdDave with his open letter to the blacks in Baltimore is now gone, even when I try to access it from my bookmarks.
Is this a new feature? Or is post permanency a feature of higher level AoSHQ memberships - like ampersands?
Posted by: Stateless Infidel at May 12, 2015 04:03 PM (AC0lD)
83
What's going on in Madison WI?
Posted by: Nevergiveup at May 12, 2015 04:02 PM (rDqRv)
Drinkin and Haten most likely.
Posted by: Nevergiveup at May 12, 2015 04:02 PM (rDqRv)
Drinkin and Haten most likely.
Posted by: Oldsailors Poet at May 12, 2015 04:03 PM (KbNXw)
84
DoJ investigation of Elizabeth Warren in 3...2...
Posted by: wrg500 at May 12, 2015 04:04 PM (sgrzZ)
85
Leave my new boyfriend alone!
Posted by: Mitch McConnell at May 12, 2015 04:04 PM (qdAzh)
86
@19 Zombie: That is sorta what they have planned for us.
Posted by: Dennis at May 12, 2015 04:04 PM (FIvdS)
87
73
What's going on in Madison WI?
Posted by: Nevergiveup at May 12, 2015 04:02 PM (rDqRv)
Racist cop shot one of Obama's gentle sons. Going to announce (eventually) whether to try the cop or not.
What's going on in Madison WI?
Posted by: Nevergiveup at May 12, 2015 04:02 PM (rDqRv)
Racist cop shot one of Obama's gentle sons. Going to announce (eventually) whether to try the cop or not.
Posted by: Jane D'oh at May 12, 2015 04:04 PM (FsuaD)
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at May 12, 2015 04:04 PM (St6BJ)
89
I think it is how Mao got things done.
Pit one group against the other, flame resentment.
Heard the story of an older peasant lady from a small village in China and how Maoist pitted one group against the other scary how the pattern seemed American Modern.
Pit one group against the other, flame resentment.
Heard the story of an older peasant lady from a small village in China and how Maoist pitted one group against the other scary how the pattern seemed American Modern.
Posted by: Clinton Family Motto at May 12, 2015 04:04 PM (RJMhd)
90
"Republicans generally support the bill because that's what they do now, they uncritically support anything with the words "trade" or "freedom" in the title."
_________________
The Freedom of Trade Bill of 2015
If you vote against it you hate America doubleplusgood
_________________
The Freedom of Trade Bill of 2015
If you vote against it you hate America doubleplusgood
Posted by: HUCK / AKIN 2016 at May 12, 2015 04:04 PM (0LHZx)
91
>>> Gandalf the Confused <<< White (Wizard) Privilege, writ large.
Posted by: Mickey Shwarma at May 12, 2015 04:04 PM (sCHw2)
Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - TrueCon at May 12, 2015 04:05 PM (kff5f)
93
Hey - blue on blue is fun to watch. And it festers. I think we can make it through to January 2017. I salute the Pubs for inciting this wonderful event.
Posted by: Super Creepy Eric Hoteham at May 12, 2015 04:05 PM (oDCMR)
94
Because racism, right?
I mean, that's the only reason to defy The One.
Also, the filibuster is good again?
I mean, that's the only reason to defy The One.
Also, the filibuster is good again?
Posted by: Masturbatin' Pete at May 12, 2015 04:05 PM (xN1DB)
95
AllenG, try it on your Balzac and report back... o.O;;;
Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at May 12, 2015 04:05 PM (V8fhv)
96
67
Speaking of failure, what ever happened to that sweet Iran deal?
Posted by: SpongeBobSaget
.............................................
I'm sorry to say they were not willing to give discounts on their hotel rooms.
Posted by: Hussein, Sooper Negotiator and Commander-In-Chief!!! at May 12, 2015 04:01 PM (wAQA5)
Come stay at our new five-star luxury Ninawa International Hotel, where we offer great rates, free FGM for the little ones, and hourly shuttles back and forth to Iran.
Speaking of failure, what ever happened to that sweet Iran deal?
Posted by: SpongeBobSaget
.............................................
I'm sorry to say they were not willing to give discounts on their hotel rooms.
Posted by: Hussein, Sooper Negotiator and Commander-In-Chief!!! at May 12, 2015 04:01 PM (wAQA5)
Come stay at our new five-star luxury Ninawa International Hotel, where we offer great rates, free FGM for the little ones, and hourly shuttles back and forth to Iran.
Posted by: ISIS at May 12, 2015 04:05 PM (ecDRv)
97
I guess I'm just too dense to understand how everything now being made by Communist China and all of our factories being shut down is a win for the average American.
Sort of like how all of this cheap 3rd world labor has been great for blue collar Americans.
Posted by: McAdams at May 12, 2015 03:59 PM (+nA84)
____________
In a macro sense it works like this:
300 million people buying socks for $2 instead of $10 is better for the economy than 10,000 Americans working in the sock industry.
Sort of like how all of this cheap 3rd world labor has been great for blue collar Americans.
Posted by: McAdams at May 12, 2015 03:59 PM (+nA84)
____________
In a macro sense it works like this:
300 million people buying socks for $2 instead of $10 is better for the economy than 10,000 Americans working in the sock industry.
Posted by: HUCK / AKIN 2016 at May 12, 2015 04:06 PM (0LHZx)
98
Posted by: Stateless Infidel at May 12, 2015 04:03 PM (AC0lD)
Asked.
Powered by Minx 0.7 alpha.
Answered.
Asked.
Powered by Minx 0.7 alpha.
Answered.
Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - TrueCon at May 12, 2015 04:06 PM (kff5f)
99
7 shots fired and all hit target-- pretty damn good shooting
Posted by: Nevergiveup at May 12, 2015 04:06 PM (rDqRv)
100
Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - TrueCon at May 12, 2015 04:05 PM (kff5f)
Pretty sick of ISIS and the religion of peace
Pretty sick of ISIS and the religion of peace
Posted by: wrg500 at May 12, 2015 04:06 PM (sgrzZ)
101
If I cared about the Republican Party or thought they had any brains at all, the most destructive thing they could do to the Democrats is agree with Obama on everything.
You know, rub their stink off on him.
You know, rub their stink off on him.
Posted by: RoyalOil at May 12, 2015 04:06 PM (ZvKdv)
102
Oh boy, riots in Madison, WI.
Going to be Scott Walkers fault, no doubt. UW is out, so the usual commies have gone home.
Going to be Scott Walkers fault, no doubt. UW is out, so the usual commies have gone home.
Posted by: Nip Sip at May 12, 2015 04:07 PM (0FSuD)
103
Every one of Obama's "promises" comes with an expiration date.
His promises to his progressive, leftist sycophants just expired a little later than the others, that's all.
They can all choke on it.
His promises to his progressive, leftist sycophants just expired a little later than the others, that's all.
They can all choke on it.
Posted by: Tex Lovera at May 12, 2015 04:07 PM (wtvvX)
Posted by: RoyalOil at May 12, 2015 04:07 PM (ZvKdv)
105
This DA is droning on and on.
Posted by: Nevergiveup at May 12, 2015 04:07 PM (rDqRv)
106
try it on your Balzac and report back... o.O;;;
1- I didn't mean for the women actually mutilated. Obviously it's worse for them.
2- Wouldn't mutilating Balzac get me charged with mutilating a corpse?
1- I didn't mean for the women actually mutilated. Obviously it's worse for them.
2- Wouldn't mutilating Balzac get me charged with mutilating a corpse?
Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - TrueCon at May 12, 2015 04:07 PM (kff5f)
107
99 7 shots fired and all hit target-- pretty damn good shooting
Posted by: Nevergiveup at May 12, 2015 04:06 PM (rDqRv)
That IS impressive. Indicates quality time at the range.
Posted by: Nevergiveup at May 12, 2015 04:06 PM (rDqRv)
That IS impressive. Indicates quality time at the range.
Posted by: Kraken at May 12, 2015 04:08 PM (sdxPm)
108
In a macro sense it works like this:
300 million people buying socks for $2 instead of $10 is better for the economy than 10,000 Americans working in the sock industry.
------------------
Brillant. But the socks are made in India. They bought all our textile machines. Further, each time NC loses a Textile Mill its per capita income goes up.
300 million people buying socks for $2 instead of $10 is better for the economy than 10,000 Americans working in the sock industry.
------------------
Brillant. But the socks are made in India. They bought all our textile machines. Further, each time NC loses a Textile Mill its per capita income goes up.
Posted by: Super Creepy Eric Hoteham at May 12, 2015 04:08 PM (oDCMR)
109
@81
So we can have economic policy set by the AFL-CIO instead of Wall Street? Or some middle ground between the two? Don't get me wrong, I have a lot of problems with corporatism here in the US, but honestly I see several special interests trying to set our trade policy, and I'm not sure I'm happy with us structuring it to favor any on of them. Maybe we can try to do the "ambition must counteract ambition thing", but let's not pretend that we're doing anything other than shifting who has the ear of the government in this review of "free trade". Corporatism, unionism, protectionism (which is the bastard of corporatism and unionism) can all hold sway in our policies in one form or another. The question is how well we balance the poison.
@81
So we can have economic policy set by the AFL-CIO instead of Wall Street? Or some middle ground between the two? Don't get me wrong, I have a lot of problems with corporatism here in the US, but honestly I see several special interests trying to set our trade policy, and I'm not sure I'm happy with us structuring it to favor any on of them. Maybe we can try to do the "ambition must counteract ambition thing", but let's not pretend that we're doing anything other than shifting who has the ear of the government in this review of "free trade". Corporatism, unionism, protectionism (which is the bastard of corporatism and unionism) can all hold sway in our policies in one form or another. The question is how well we balance the poison.
Posted by: lurkingestlurker at May 12, 2015 04:08 PM (k8xvx)
110
@81
So we can have economic policy set by the AFL-CIO instead of Wall Street? Or some middle ground between the two? Don't get me wrong, I have a lot of problems with corporatism here in the US, but honestly I see several special interests trying to set our trade policy, and I'm not sure I'm happy with us structuring it to favor any on of them. Maybe we can try to do the "ambition must counteract ambition thing", but let's not pretend that we're doing anything other than shifting who has the ear of the government in this review of "free trade". Corporatism, unionism, protectionism (which is the bastard of corporatism and unionism) can all hold sway in our policies in one form or another. The question is how well we balance the poison.
@81
So we can have economic policy set by the AFL-CIO instead of Wall Street? Or some middle ground between the two? Don't get me wrong, I have a lot of problems with corporatism here in the US, but honestly I see several special interests trying to set our trade policy, and I'm not sure I'm happy with us structuring it to favor any on of them. Maybe we can try to do the "ambition must counteract ambition thing", but let's not pretend that we're doing anything other than shifting who has the ear of the government in this review of "free trade". Corporatism, unionism, protectionism (which is the bastard of corporatism and unionism) can all hold sway in our policies in one form or another. The question is how well we balance the poison.
Posted by: lurkingestlurker at May 12, 2015 04:08 PM (k8xvx)
111
AtC: @ 19 O'bumbfuck could never be cleared to even "confidential" level. Clearences are for us little people who actually do work, Politicians get SS coverage to "help" them keep secrets, unless it helps kill SEALS!!!
Posted by: Dennis at May 12, 2015 04:08 PM (FIvdS)
112
I guess I'm just too dense to understand how everything now being made by Communist China and all of our factories being shut down is a win for the average American.
Sort of like how all of this cheap 3rd world labor has been great for blue collar Americans.
Posted by: McAdams at May 12, 2015 03:59 PM (+nA84)
__________
It's not all factories closing. It's factories that produce very little added value which are closing. We still have plenty of factories that make planes, boats, semi conductors, medical devices....all things that add a lot of value.
This isn't just in America. There aren't any low added value factories in Germany or Japan either. Rich countries make expensive things, poor countries make cheap thigngs.
Sort of like how all of this cheap 3rd world labor has been great for blue collar Americans.
Posted by: McAdams at May 12, 2015 03:59 PM (+nA84)
__________
It's not all factories closing. It's factories that produce very little added value which are closing. We still have plenty of factories that make planes, boats, semi conductors, medical devices....all things that add a lot of value.
This isn't just in America. There aren't any low added value factories in Germany or Japan either. Rich countries make expensive things, poor countries make cheap thigngs.
Posted by: HUCK / AKIN 2016 at May 12, 2015 04:08 PM (0LHZx)
113
Qu’ils mangent de la brioche.
Posted by: Hillary at May 12, 2015 04:08 PM (F2IAQ)
114
President Obama may be a colossal failure as a bureaucrat, but nobody makes tasty White House home brewskis like Barry can!
Even George Washington would have been envious.
Even George Washington would have been envious.
Posted by: Fritz at May 12, 2015 04:09 PM (UzPAd)
115
They were bitching that the DA called the mom on Mother' Day to inform her of his decision. He had promised her he wd give her a 2 day heads up.
Now they are whining that it was cruel to call her on Mother's Day, as if any other day she wd not be cognizant that her son is dead. smh
Now they are whining that it was cruel to call her on Mother's Day, as if any other day she wd not be cognizant that her son is dead. smh
Posted by: Bruce J. at May 12, 2015 04:09 PM (iQIUe)
116
Is this a new feature? Or is post permanency a feature of higher level AoSHQ memberships - like ampersands?
Posted by: Stateless Infidel at May 12, 2015 04:03 PM (AC0lD)
Haha. All your archives are belong to us.
J/K, here you go (wierdinfideldave's post).http://ace.mu.nu/archives/356636.php
Posted by: Stateless Infidel at May 12, 2015 04:03 PM (AC0lD)
Haha. All your archives are belong to us.
J/K, here you go (wierdinfideldave's post).http://ace.mu.nu/archives/356636.php
Posted by: ISIS at May 12, 2015 04:09 PM (ecDRv)
117
Well you would think that Warren would be better because she is less adept at lying but that didn't keep her out of the Senate...holy crap that was unbelievable.
Posted by: Clinton Family Motto at May 12, 2015 04:09 PM (RJMhd)
118
Super Creepy Eric Hoteham: "I salute the Pubs for inciting this wonderful event."
Pretty sure the Stupid Party lacks such Machiavellian skills. Their paymasters told them to jump and they jumped as high as high as they could.
Pretty sure the Stupid Party lacks such Machiavellian skills. Their paymasters told them to jump and they jumped as high as high as they could.
Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at May 12, 2015 04:09 PM (1CroS)
119
I quickly visited this morning, read a few articles from the news dump, came back and now the post is gone.
-----
There was no news dump this morning.
-----
There was no news dump this morning.
Posted by: Buzzion at May 12, 2015 04:09 PM (qdAzh)
120
Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - TrueCon at May 12, 2015 04:06 PM (kff5f)
Thanks. I Bing'ed that. I'm good now and will live.
Thanks. I Bing'ed that. I'm good now and will live.
Posted by: Stateless Infidel at May 12, 2015 04:10 PM (AC0lD)
Posted by: the chicken at May 12, 2015 04:10 PM (0bXhD)
122
104
So Elizabeth Warren officially has more balls than the GOPe.
=========
FIFY
---------------------
The Indian Princess has offended Chief Fredo - things could go very bad for her. She must know, she didn't write this TTP.
So Elizabeth Warren officially has more balls than the GOPe.
=========
FIFY
---------------------
The Indian Princess has offended Chief Fredo - things could go very bad for her. She must know, she didn't write this TTP.
Posted by: Super Creepy Eric Hoteham at May 12, 2015 04:10 PM (oDCMR)
123
"So how can the Senators not be allowed to see the trade deal because it's classified? "
Must be something in the thing that he thinks will piss people off.
Posted by: Ricardo Kill at May 12, 2015 03:55 PM (LA7Cm)
-----------------------------------------
Something tells me there's some shit in there about military arms sale to certain unmentionable groups. It would surprise me to find out that this is what this deal is mostly about anyway.
Must be something in the thing that he thinks will piss people off.
Posted by: Ricardo Kill at May 12, 2015 03:55 PM (LA7Cm)
-----------------------------------------
Something tells me there's some shit in there about military arms sale to certain unmentionable groups. It would surprise me to find out that this is what this deal is mostly about anyway.
Posted by: Soona at May 12, 2015 04:10 PM (/HX7u)
124
Brillant. But the socks are made in India. They bought all our textile machines. Further, each time NC loses a Textile Mill its per capita income goes up.
Posted by: Super Creepy Eric Hoteham at May 12, 2015 04:08 PM (oDCMR)
__________
Yeah made in India, ie a poor country. Poor countries make cheap items, rich countries make expensive items.
Let India make $2 socks. We'll make $100M planes instead.
Posted by: Super Creepy Eric Hoteham at May 12, 2015 04:08 PM (oDCMR)
__________
Yeah made in India, ie a poor country. Poor countries make cheap items, rich countries make expensive items.
Let India make $2 socks. We'll make $100M planes instead.
Posted by: HUCK / AKIN 2016 at May 12, 2015 04:10 PM (0LHZx)
125
So GrOPe was fine and dandy with passing a bill they had not read? Seriously, what in the f*ck is wrong with them? The last time these a$$hats did this, we got 404care, and that is working out wonderfully. /sarc
Posted by: Penfold at May 12, 2015 04:11 PM (Fbt5B)
126
would=wouldn't
Posted by: Soona at May 12, 2015 04:11 PM (/HX7u)
127
So we are left with depending on Liawatha to follow up on McConnell's promise to block Obama's agenda.
Posted by: Minuteman at May 12, 2015 04:11 PM (yQVAQ)
128
I think it is how Mao got things done.
Pit one group against the other, flame resentment.
Heard the story of an older peasant lady from a small village in China and how Maoist pitted one group against the other scary how the pattern seemed American Modern.
Posted by: Clinton Family Motto at May 12, 2015 04:04 PM (RJMhd)
Yes.
Obama and his crew are Maoists.
Look up the Cultural Revolution.
Instead of "Uncle Joe", Mao is the hip new flava for commies these days.
Pit one group against the other, flame resentment.
Heard the story of an older peasant lady from a small village in China and how Maoist pitted one group against the other scary how the pattern seemed American Modern.
Posted by: Clinton Family Motto at May 12, 2015 04:04 PM (RJMhd)
Yes.
Obama and his crew are Maoists.
Look up the Cultural Revolution.
Instead of "Uncle Joe", Mao is the hip new flava for commies these days.
Posted by: naturalfake at May 12, 2015 04:11 PM (0cMkb)
129
"But Budowsky only objects when it's done to liberals, because he agrees with this tactic of conducting all "debate" not on the issue but on the subject of one's opponent's character and intelligence, like all nasty progressives."
Perhaps a thunderclap of sense will hit him and he will realize that there is no limit to the amount of "othering" that can be done.
Nah.
Perhaps a thunderclap of sense will hit him and he will realize that there is no limit to the amount of "othering" that can be done.
Nah.
Posted by: Mikey NTH - The Outrage Outlet validates insecurities, hang-ups, neuroses, and parking! at May 12, 2015 04:11 PM (hLRSq)
130
NO CHARGES-- hey this DA in Madison WI is OK
Posted by: Nevergiveup at May 12, 2015 04:11 PM (rDqRv)
131
Could someone on Journolist let me know who to root for here?
Posted by: Ezra Klein at May 12, 2015 04:11 PM (OD2ni)
132
The problem is there are figures like Grover Norquist that will make a big stink if Republicans don't continue to worship at the altar of Free Trade by raising tarrifs on imports.
Just like Grover made a big stink when Republican tried to stop Ethanol tax breaks. We have a wing that is straight up corporatist.
I would like to a flip where corporate taxes are lowered and simplified but import duties raised.
Look at our trade deficit with China and tell me having them as a "most favored trading partner" is "good" for american jobs.
Just like Grover made a big stink when Republican tried to stop Ethanol tax breaks. We have a wing that is straight up corporatist.
I would like to a flip where corporate taxes are lowered and simplified but import duties raised.
Look at our trade deficit with China and tell me having them as a "most favored trading partner" is "good" for american jobs.
Posted by: McAdams at May 12, 2015 04:11 PM (+nA84)
133
113 Quilts mangent de brioche.
I have a magnetic brooch?
I have a magnetic brooch?
Posted by: Kraken at May 12, 2015 04:11 PM (sdxPm)
134
So Elizabeth Warren officially has more balls than the GOPe.
=========
FIFY
Posted by: RoyalOil at May 12, 2015 04:07 PM
So today, most of the Bad Guys -- except the Head Bad Guy -- are Good Guys, and the Good Guys are the gutless, toe-sucking surrender-monkey Bad Guys.
Bitch McConnell no doubt haz a sad. But he'll fix it for Choom Boy, his BFF.
More and more, the only cure for what ails the Constitution is the Three Is: Impeachment, Indictment and Imprisonment.
=========
FIFY
Posted by: RoyalOil at May 12, 2015 04:07 PM
So today, most of the Bad Guys -- except the Head Bad Guy -- are Good Guys, and the Good Guys are the gutless, toe-sucking surrender-monkey Bad Guys.
Bitch McConnell no doubt haz a sad. But he'll fix it for Choom Boy, his BFF.
More and more, the only cure for what ails the Constitution is the Three Is: Impeachment, Indictment and Imprisonment.
Posted by: MrScribbler at May 12, 2015 04:12 PM (P8YHq)
135
Free trade is a win win for everyone. Just note, Volvo, owned by the Chinese, announced it is building a $500 Million dollar plant in SC that will employee 4,000.
We want to make high end stuff, like every BMW SUV in the world is made in SC, 8,000 SC employees.
Let the Indians, etc make socks.
We want to make high end stuff, like every BMW SUV in the world is made in SC, 8,000 SC employees.
Let the Indians, etc make socks.
Posted by: Nip Sip at May 12, 2015 04:12 PM (0FSuD)
136
This is mind-borgling.
The TPP sounds like another NAFTA-type boondoggle. Did any of Those promises come true? America has lost all its jobs; the sweatshops in the Third World are doing everything; and we have no industrial base any more.
The shakeout from this over the next twenty years will be horrendous.
The TPP sounds like another NAFTA-type boondoggle. Did any of Those promises come true? America has lost all its jobs; the sweatshops in the Third World are doing everything; and we have no industrial base any more.
The shakeout from this over the next twenty years will be horrendous.
Posted by: Beverly at May 12, 2015 04:12 PM (MPvFL)
137
What we make:
$100M Boeing planes
$500K medical devices
What "they" make
$2 socks
$5 junk you buy at WalMart
This is a good thing.
$100M Boeing planes
$500K medical devices
What "they" make
$2 socks
$5 junk you buy at WalMart
This is a good thing.
Posted by: HUCK / AKIN 2016 at May 12, 2015 04:12 PM (0LHZx)
138
119 I quickly visited this morning, read a few articles from the news dump, came back and now the post is gone.
-----
There was no news dump this morning.
Posted by: Buzzion at May 12, 2015 04:09 PM (qdAzh)
Sure. Next you'll be telling me that we've always been at war with Eastasia.
-----
There was no news dump this morning.
Posted by: Buzzion at May 12, 2015 04:09 PM (qdAzh)
Sure. Next you'll be telling me that we've always been at war with Eastasia.
Posted by: rickl at May 12, 2015 04:13 PM (zoehZ)
139
Fund the Military, I'll leave the rest to you all
Posted by: Nevergiveup at May 12, 2015 04:13 PM (rDqRv)
140
135 Free trade is a win win for everyone. Just note, Volvo, owned by the Chinese, announced it is building a $500 Million dollar plant in SC that will employee 4,000.
We want to make high end stuff, like every BMW SUV in the world is made in SC, 8,000 SC employees.
Let the Indians, etc make socks.
Posted by: Nip Sip at May 12, 2015 04:12 PM (0FSuD)
_________
I'm gland someone here get it besides me.
We want to make high end stuff, like every BMW SUV in the world is made in SC, 8,000 SC employees.
Let the Indians, etc make socks.
Posted by: Nip Sip at May 12, 2015 04:12 PM (0FSuD)
_________
I'm gland someone here get it besides me.
Posted by: HUCK / AKIN 2016 at May 12, 2015 04:13 PM (0LHZx)
Posted by: rd at May 12, 2015 04:13 PM (r2TIL)
142
119 I quickly visited this morning, read a few articles from the news dump, came back and now the post is gone.
-----
There was no news dump this morning.
Posted by: Buzzion at May 12, 2015 04:09 PM (qdAzh)
Stickler for details I see.
-----
There was no news dump this morning.
Posted by: Buzzion at May 12, 2015 04:09 PM (qdAzh)
Stickler for details I see.
Posted by: Kraken at May 12, 2015 04:13 PM (sdxPm)
143
87 Racist cop shot one of Obama's gentle sons. Going to announce (eventually) whether to try the cop or not.
Posted by: Jane D'oh at May 12, 2015 04:04 PM (FsuaD)
Can we try him out as a candidate?
Posted by: Jane D'oh at May 12, 2015 04:04 PM (FsuaD)
Can we try him out as a candidate?
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at May 12, 2015 04:13 PM (St6BJ)
144
funny how Mitch McConnell has turned out to be exactly as awful as the "right-wing whacko birds" predicted he would be.
Posted by: Gregory of Yardale at May 12, 2015 04:14 PM (O7MnT)
145
Barky and his minions spare the left from the 'racist' label in their
attacks. That's reserved for GOPers. I do like the Red on Red stuff
BUT why is Barky doing this when his most ardent supporters of all else
oppose?
attacks. That's reserved for GOPers. I do like the Red on Red stuff
BUT why is Barky doing this when his most ardent supporters of all else
oppose?
Posted by: jimdancer@angryquail at May 12, 2015 04:14 PM (g1MTt)
146
I'm gland someone here get it besides me.
Posted by: HUCK / AKIN 2016 at May 12, 2015 04:13 PM (0LHZx)
Having a Masters in Econ, helps.
Posted by: HUCK / AKIN 2016 at May 12, 2015 04:13 PM (0LHZx)
Having a Masters in Econ, helps.
Posted by: Nip Sip at May 12, 2015 04:14 PM (0FSuD)
147
I would add I can think of one big rea$on (think The Clinton Family
Foundation Of Grifting and Graft with the motto "$elling $oul And
$ecurity Of Country 24/7 ") but that is a year and a half away and the
down low Mememe Man is doing that as official policy already--although
just not banking it yet (or maybe he is a la Montserrat, Caymans etc.)
With so many low friends in high places, he could have started early.
Just wondering.
Foundation Of Grifting and Graft with the motto "$elling $oul And
$ecurity Of Country 24/7 ") but that is a year and a half away and the
down low Mememe Man is doing that as official policy already--although
just not banking it yet (or maybe he is a la Montserrat, Caymans etc.)
With so many low friends in high places, he could have started early.
Just wondering.
Posted by: jimdancer@angryquail at May 12, 2015 04:15 PM (g1MTt)
148
NO CHARGES-- hey this DA in Madison WI is OK
Posted by: Nevergiveup at May 12, 2015 04:11 PM (rDqRv)
-----------------------------------------
So that's why he was wiping away the sweat so frequently.
Posted by: Nevergiveup at May 12, 2015 04:11 PM (rDqRv)
-----------------------------------------
So that's why he was wiping away the sweat so frequently.
Posted by: Soona at May 12, 2015 04:15 PM (/HX7u)
149
fuck him
Posted by: Couch Fucker at May 12, 2015 03:43 PM (ecDRv)
Second the motion.Posted by: the chicken.................Aye.
Posted by: Couch Fucker at May 12, 2015 03:43 PM (ecDRv)
Second the motion.Posted by: the chicken.................Aye.
Posted by: the toaster at May 12, 2015 04:15 PM (wAQA5)
150
Gee, the MSM get around to noticing - or criticizing - the fact that so much of what Obama does is in secret?
Secret trade deal.
Secret Iran deal.
Secret Obamacare - pass it to see what's in it!
And so on....
Secret trade deal.
Secret Iran deal.
Secret Obamacare - pass it to see what's in it!
And so on....
Posted by: Lizzy at May 12, 2015 04:15 PM (2TN4k)
151
BUT why is Barky doing this when his most ardent supporters of all else
oppose?
Posted by: jimdancer@angryquail at May 12, 2015 04:14 PM (g1MTt)
*******
Because he's smart! Not like everybody says. He's smart and he wants respect!
oppose?
Posted by: jimdancer@angryquail at May 12, 2015 04:14 PM (g1MTt)
*******
Because he's smart! Not like everybody says. He's smart and he wants respect!
Posted by: Just Some Guy at May 12, 2015 04:15 PM (vgIRn)
152
Elizabeth Warren is just being a mouth piece for the Lefty unions. Obama is right that she has no clue about trade. Which is just slightly less than what Obama knows.
Posted by: Cruzinator at May 12, 2015 04:16 PM (8NLb9)
153
Hey Fredo I got an idea, try telling the truth once in a while and don't keep everything secret and then maybe people would trust you? But Nooooo, be a secretive asshole and get what you deserve you lying arrogant asshole. At least that is how I feel
Posted by: Nevergiveup at May 12, 2015 04:16 PM (rDqRv)
154
Will Madison Riot?
Posted by: rd at May 12, 2015 04:13 PM (r2TIL)
Help yeah, bitches, free shit! Wait U W is out, so who be our leaders?
Posted by: rd at May 12, 2015 04:13 PM (r2TIL)
Help yeah, bitches, free shit! Wait U W is out, so who be our leaders?
Posted by: LeRoy, the LIV at May 12, 2015 04:16 PM (0FSuD)
155
130
NO CHARGES-- hey this DA in Madison WI is OK
Posted by: Nevergiveup at May 12, 2015 04:11 PM (rDqRv)
Now the progressives will label him an Uncle Tom.
NO CHARGES-- hey this DA in Madison WI is OK
Posted by: Nevergiveup at May 12, 2015 04:11 PM (rDqRv)
Now the progressives will label him an Uncle Tom.
Posted by: Tex Lovera at May 12, 2015 04:16 PM (wtvvX)
156
Remember when the Japanese were "destroying" the American auto industry? People were saying we should impose tarriffs on Japanese cars to protect Detroit. It was a stupid idea then and a stupid idea now. Allowing Japanese cars improved quality for every American car buyer and lowered costs for cars. Sure, some auto workers got hurt in the process. But overall teh country is much better off.
Posted by: HUCK / AKIN 2016 at May 12, 2015 04:16 PM (0LHZx)
157
Riots in Madison in 3, 2, 1....
Posted by: Jane D'oh at May 12, 2015 04:16 PM (FsuaD)
158
I hope the poor disadvantaged youths in Madison WI remember there are about 2 miilion deer hunters in WI, and even a few in Madison too. Rioting might not be a ggod idea.
Posted by: rd at May 12, 2015 04:16 PM (r2TIL)
159
Second the motion.Posted by: the chicken.................Aye.
Posted by: the toaster at May 12, 2015 04:15 PM (wAQA5)
So the chicken gets it....hard
Posted by: the toaster at May 12, 2015 04:15 PM (wAQA5)
So the chicken gets it....hard
Posted by: wrg500 at May 12, 2015 04:16 PM (sgrzZ)
160
Posted by: Nip Sip at May 12, 2015 04:12 PM (0FSuD)
Real free trade is great. And, as you point out, brings better paying jobs to America than (for instance) making socks.
However, often what gets billed as "free trade" is actually a decrease in the cost of imports while *artificially increasing* the costs to manufacture locally. Oh, and there are often a dearth of reciprocal tariff reductions from our new "Free Trade Partner."
I have no problem with free trade. I have a massive problem with Corporatism masquerading as free trade.
Real free trade is great. And, as you point out, brings better paying jobs to America than (for instance) making socks.
However, often what gets billed as "free trade" is actually a decrease in the cost of imports while *artificially increasing* the costs to manufacture locally. Oh, and there are often a dearth of reciprocal tariff reductions from our new "Free Trade Partner."
I have no problem with free trade. I have a massive problem with Corporatism masquerading as free trade.
Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - TrueCon at May 12, 2015 04:16 PM (kff5f)
161
Obama's imaginary son had quite a few drugs in his system. Gentle giant.
Posted by: Jane D'oh at May 12, 2015 04:17 PM (FsuaD)
162
Having a Masters in Econ, helps.
Posted by: Nip Sip at May 12, 2015 04:14 PM (0FSuD)
________
Word
BA - Economics Major
MBA - Finance concentration
Posted by: Nip Sip at May 12, 2015 04:14 PM (0FSuD)
________
Word
BA - Economics Major
MBA - Finance concentration
Posted by: HUCK / AKIN 2016 at May 12, 2015 04:17 PM (0LHZx)
163
Second the motion.Posted by: the chicken.................Aye.
Posted by: the toaster at May 12, 2015 04:15 PM (wAQA5)
Move to call the previous question.
Posted by: the toaster at May 12, 2015 04:15 PM (wAQA5)
Move to call the previous question.
Posted by: Microwave-warmed cantaloupe with a hole cut out at May 12, 2015 04:17 PM (vgIRn)
164
In a macro sense it works like this:
300 million people buying socks for $2 instead of $10 is better for
the economy than 10,000 Americans working in the sock industry.
Posted by: HUCK / AKIN 2016
Except the price stays about the same, the extra profit just goes into some Private Equity firm that is flipping the business.
You do that to enough industries and there's no good jobs left. It's not just "socks", it's basically all technology and manufacturing jobs. Everyone is working at Walmart type retail jobs and China gets to call the shots because we owe them so much money.
I don't remember goods being unaffordable for the average American when NOTHING came from China but firecrackers.
300 million people buying socks for $2 instead of $10 is better for
the economy than 10,000 Americans working in the sock industry.
Posted by: HUCK / AKIN 2016
Except the price stays about the same, the extra profit just goes into some Private Equity firm that is flipping the business.
You do that to enough industries and there's no good jobs left. It's not just "socks", it's basically all technology and manufacturing jobs. Everyone is working at Walmart type retail jobs and China gets to call the shots because we owe them so much money.
I don't remember goods being unaffordable for the average American when NOTHING came from China but firecrackers.
Posted by: McAdams at May 12, 2015 04:18 PM (+nA84)
165
No charges against the Wisconsin cop?
Doesn't the DA know there is 250 years of oppression and white guys shooting black children for no reason?
Has Wisconsin an overstock of flat screen TVs and high top tennis shoes?
Baltimore should have taught them that no matter what the facts are, you indict the cops.
Time to burn these cheese-eating crackers down.
Doesn't the DA know there is 250 years of oppression and white guys shooting black children for no reason?
Has Wisconsin an overstock of flat screen TVs and high top tennis shoes?
Baltimore should have taught them that no matter what the facts are, you indict the cops.
Time to burn these cheese-eating crackers down.
Posted by: jwest at May 12, 2015 04:18 PM (9ZZd+)
166
I imagine the GOP went along w/it because they're already bought/bribed.
Obama hasn't really had to bother with nudging his own party, except for dealing with the occasional pesky senator like Menendez, conveniently indicted after standing up to Obama.
Obama hasn't really had to bother with nudging his own party, except for dealing with the occasional pesky senator like Menendez, conveniently indicted after standing up to Obama.
Posted by: Lizzy at May 12, 2015 04:18 PM (2TN4k)
167
"Republicans generally support the bill because that's what they do now, they uncritically support anything with the words "trade" or "freedom" in the title."
You know what we totally need? A new law called the "Support Islamic Freedom from Hate Speech Act"!
You know what we totally need? A new law called the "Support Islamic Freedom from Hate Speech Act"!
Posted by: Low Information Millennial Voter at May 12, 2015 04:18 PM (YYJjz)
168
You know Moo shell was always on top, but the only way da Zero can fuck is up.
Posted by: maddogg at May 12, 2015 04:18 PM (xWW96)
169
I can see why Warren is wary of trade agreements. Her people did get screwed over that Manhattan deal.
Posted by: Yves Gotnuttin at May 12, 2015 04:18 PM (Iwn52)
170
NGU: Fund the military and stand back, leave the rest to them!! No politicians allowed (DEMS 'specially)
Posted by: Dennis at May 12, 2015 04:18 PM (FIvdS)
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at May 12, 2015 04:19 PM (St6BJ)
172
Reading the twitter comments, black people alway think we are required to take a beating from them. smh
Reading the twitter comments, black people alway think we are required to take a beating from them. smh
Posted by: Bruce J. at May 12, 2015 04:19 PM (iQIUe)
173
Chicago Olympics, anyone... anyone?
Posted by: Dang at May 12, 2015 04:19 PM (FRkJH)
174
So, are they going to burn this mother down, then?
Posted by: Tex Lovera at May 12, 2015 04:19 PM (wtvvX)
175
Check out the auto and tire manufacturing in the NON UNION South. See map in story.
http://tinyurl.com/pu59lkw
http://tinyurl.com/pu59lkw
Posted by: LeRoy, the LIV at May 12, 2015 04:19 PM (0FSuD)
176
Excuse me, you white supremacist h8rs, but I.DON'T.FAIL.
I merely #Win in another direction!
Some dead, old white Marine-Corpseman said that.
I merely #Win in another direction!
Some dead, old white Marine-Corpseman said that.
Posted by: Barry 0Bola, POTUS Lousyaire at May 12, 2015 04:19 PM (sCHw2)
177
Off Le Roy sock
Posted by: Nip Sip at May 12, 2015 04:19 PM (0FSuD)
178
Time to burn Madison
Posted by: Velvet Ambition at May 12, 2015 04:20 PM (R8hU8)
179
Reading the twitter comments, black people alway think we are required to take a beating from them. smh
Posted by: Bruce J. at May 12, 2015 04:19 PM (iQIUe)
We're not?
Posted by: Bruce J. at May 12, 2015 04:19 PM (iQIUe)
We're not?
Posted by: Reginald Denny at May 12, 2015 04:20 PM (KbNXw)
180
Except the price stays about the same, the extra profit just goes into some Private Equity firm that is flipping the business.
You do that to enough industries and there's no good jobs left. It's not just "socks", it's basically all technology and manufacturing jobs. Everyone is working at Walmart type retail jobs and China gets to call the shots because we owe them so much money.
I don't remember goods being unaffordable for the average American when NOTHING came from China but firecrackers.
Posted by: McAdams at May 12, 2015 04:18 PM (+nA84)
___________
WTF are you yapping about private equity groups. Socks for $2 is cheaper than $10 is it not? When you save that $8 as a consumer, you then have $8 to spend on something else. Which means you as a consumer are better off.
Jesus fucking Christ, it sounds like DailyKos here today.
You do that to enough industries and there's no good jobs left. It's not just "socks", it's basically all technology and manufacturing jobs. Everyone is working at Walmart type retail jobs and China gets to call the shots because we owe them so much money.
I don't remember goods being unaffordable for the average American when NOTHING came from China but firecrackers.
Posted by: McAdams at May 12, 2015 04:18 PM (+nA84)
___________
WTF are you yapping about private equity groups. Socks for $2 is cheaper than $10 is it not? When you save that $8 as a consumer, you then have $8 to spend on something else. Which means you as a consumer are better off.
Jesus fucking Christ, it sounds like DailyKos here today.
Posted by: HUCK / AKIN 2016 at May 12, 2015 04:20 PM (0LHZx)
181
You know Moo shell was always on top, but the only way da Zero can fuck is up.
Posted by: maddogg at May 12, 2015 04:18 PM (xWW96)
Moochie on top! My god the horror!
Posted by: maddogg at May 12, 2015 04:18 PM (xWW96)
Moochie on top! My god the horror!
Posted by: wrg500 at May 12, 2015 04:20 PM (sgrzZ)
182
I hope the poor disadvantaged youths in Madison WI remember there are about 2 miilion deer hunters in WI, and even a few in Madison too. Rioting might not be a ggod idea.
Posted by: rd
..................................
ssshh.
I hope the poor disadvantaged youths in Madison WI remember there are about 2 miilion deer hunters in WI, and even a few in Madison too. Rioting might not be a ggod idea.
Posted by: rd
..................................
ssshh.
Posted by: wth at May 12, 2015 04:20 PM (wAQA5)
183
I don't remember goods being unaffordable for the average American when NOTHING came from China but firecrackers.
Computers, among other things.
Not to mention that the price of a great many things has not gone up despite vast advances in technology. That's because of free trade.
But, yes, there's a balance between true free trade and "free trade." Call me Mr. Cynical, but I tend to think that any "secret agreement" will be long on the latter, and short on the former.
Computers, among other things.
Not to mention that the price of a great many things has not gone up despite vast advances in technology. That's because of free trade.
But, yes, there's a balance between true free trade and "free trade." Call me Mr. Cynical, but I tend to think that any "secret agreement" will be long on the latter, and short on the former.
Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - TrueCon at May 12, 2015 04:20 PM (kff5f)
184
Well, Obama could have had Corker fast track the agreement if he had told him it guaranteed a free nuclear bomb to the first 10 countries to sign on.
Posted by: Thatch at May 12, 2015 04:20 PM (xwAcF)
Posted by: Lizzy at May 12, 2015 04:20 PM (2TN4k)
186
Obama is not failing in his mission of destroying the USA.
Posted by: davidt at May 12, 2015 04:20 PM (XPfM7)
187
172
Reading the twitter comments, black people alway think we are required to take a beating from them. smh
Posted by: Bruce J. at May 12, 2015 04:19 PM (iQIUe)
We are all Jews now.
Reading the twitter comments, black people alway think we are required to take a beating from them. smh
Posted by: Bruce J. at May 12, 2015 04:19 PM (iQIUe)
We are all Jews now.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at May 12, 2015 04:21 PM (St6BJ)
188
At least in Madison, there's more than one CVS to burn down.
Posted by: jwest at May 12, 2015 04:21 PM (9ZZd+)
189
I hope the poor disadvantaged youths in Madison WI remember there are about 2 miilion deer hunters in WI, and even a few in Madison too. Rioting might not be a ggod idea.
Posted by: rd
Hmmm...
Part of me agrees with you.
Part of me really doesn't.
Posted by: rd
Hmmm...
Part of me agrees with you.
Part of me really doesn't.
Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - TrueCon at May 12, 2015 04:21 PM (kff5f)
190
No charges against the Wisconsin cop?
Doesn't the DA know there is 250 years of oppression and white guys shooting black children for no reason?
Has Wisconsin an overstock of flat screen TVs and high top tennis shoes?
Baltimore should have taught them that no matter what the facts are, you indict the cops.
Time to burn these cheese-eating crackers down.
Posted by: jwest at May 12, 2015 04:18 PM (9ZZd+)
I know you are joking. By the way, Madison is a very Liberal, very Educated, Very Progressive City. In other words, they do not allow many blacks to live there amongst them in their enlightened neighborhoods. I think it is about 7% black?
Doesn't the DA know there is 250 years of oppression and white guys shooting black children for no reason?
Has Wisconsin an overstock of flat screen TVs and high top tennis shoes?
Baltimore should have taught them that no matter what the facts are, you indict the cops.
Time to burn these cheese-eating crackers down.
Posted by: jwest at May 12, 2015 04:18 PM (9ZZd+)
I know you are joking. By the way, Madison is a very Liberal, very Educated, Very Progressive City. In other words, they do not allow many blacks to live there amongst them in their enlightened neighborhoods. I think it is about 7% black?
Posted by: rd at May 12, 2015 04:21 PM (r2TIL)
191
What we make:
$100M Boeing planes
$500K medical devices
What "they" make
$2 socks
$5 junk you buy at WalMart
This is a good thing.
Posted by: HUCK / AKIN 2016 at May 12, 2015 04:12 PM
I know this is Rule One for True Capitalist Conservatives, but you might wanna think it through a little.
First, there are times when nobody BUYS the Boeing planes and the big-buck medical devices. People damn near ALWAYS buy $2 socks.
Second, American manufacturers have outsourced so much production -- cars, even airplanes and medical devices -- that fewer American citizens can afford to make use of the big-dollar devices that were made here, but are now made in China, Mexico and other places.
Oh, well. Stick to those Ayn Rand fantasies....
$100M Boeing planes
$500K medical devices
What "they" make
$2 socks
$5 junk you buy at WalMart
This is a good thing.
Posted by: HUCK / AKIN 2016 at May 12, 2015 04:12 PM
I know this is Rule One for True Capitalist Conservatives, but you might wanna think it through a little.
First, there are times when nobody BUYS the Boeing planes and the big-buck medical devices. People damn near ALWAYS buy $2 socks.
Second, American manufacturers have outsourced so much production -- cars, even airplanes and medical devices -- that fewer American citizens can afford to make use of the big-dollar devices that were made here, but are now made in China, Mexico and other places.
Oh, well. Stick to those Ayn Rand fantasies....
Posted by: MrScribbler at May 12, 2015 04:21 PM (P8YHq)
192
156
Remember when the Japanese were "destroying" the American auto industry?
People were saying we should impose tarriffs on Japanese cars to
protect Detroit. It was a stupid idea then and a stupid idea now.
Allowing Japanese cars improved quality for every American car buyer and
lowered costs for cars. Sure, some auto workers got hurt in the
process. But overall teh country is much better off.
Posted by: HUCK / AKIN 2016
And protectionism "worked", the Japanese had to build factories here in the US to get around all the barriers we put up.
Now japanese cars are more American than the Big 3.
I'm not against all trade and can support free trade if the we have an equal partnership, but for the most part it has been a MASSIVE failure for the United States if the goal was to grow manufacturing jobs here.
It's the same with illegal immigration and work visas, it's destroyed jobs that many Americans made a good, middle class living from all to placate CEOs and Wall Street.
Remember when the Japanese were "destroying" the American auto industry?
People were saying we should impose tarriffs on Japanese cars to
protect Detroit. It was a stupid idea then and a stupid idea now.
Allowing Japanese cars improved quality for every American car buyer and
lowered costs for cars. Sure, some auto workers got hurt in the
process. But overall teh country is much better off.
Posted by: HUCK / AKIN 2016
And protectionism "worked", the Japanese had to build factories here in the US to get around all the barriers we put up.
Now japanese cars are more American than the Big 3.
I'm not against all trade and can support free trade if the we have an equal partnership, but for the most part it has been a MASSIVE failure for the United States if the goal was to grow manufacturing jobs here.
It's the same with illegal immigration and work visas, it's destroyed jobs that many Americans made a good, middle class living from all to placate CEOs and Wall Street.
Posted by: McAdams at May 12, 2015 04:22 PM (+nA84)
193
Wisconsin, and in particular Madison, is the cradle of American Progressivism.
It's why Scott Walker's repeated victories there are much more meaningful politically, and sweeter emotionally. And why he is in my top tier. For now.
Wisconsin, and in particular Madison, is the cradle of American Progressivism.
It's why Scott Walker's repeated victories there are much more meaningful politically, and sweeter emotionally. And why he is in my top tier. For now.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at May 12, 2015 04:23 PM (St6BJ)
194
Warren vs. Bush in the Main Event ... who are you backing ?
Posted by: ScoggDog at May 12, 2015 04:23 PM (s6vgk)
195
Barry Soetoro is a stuttering clusterfuck of a miserable failure.
Posted by: Grump928(c) at May 12, 2015 04:24 PM (evdj2)
196
Jesus fucking Christ, it sounds like DailyKos here today.
Posted by: HUCK / AKIN 2016 at May 12, 2015 04:20 PM (0LHZx)
It sounds like it everyday when you spew your amoral filth.
Jesus fucking Christ, it sounds like DailyKos here today.
Posted by: HUCK / AKIN 2016 at May 12, 2015 04:20 PM (0LHZx)
It sounds like it everyday when you spew your amoral filth.
Posted by: Buzzion at May 12, 2015 04:24 PM (qdAzh)
197
I think I'd abstain, ScoggDog.
Posted by: Moderate Salami at May 12, 2015 04:24 PM (/Ho8c)
198
192 It's the same with illegal immigration and work visas, it's destroyed jobs that many Americans made a good, middle class living from all to placate CEOs and Wall Street.
Posted by: McAdams at May 12, 2015 04:22 PM (+nA84)
Big Labor and Big Government regulations. The REAL job killers, especially the latter.
Posted by: McAdams at May 12, 2015 04:22 PM (+nA84)
Big Labor and Big Government regulations. The REAL job killers, especially the latter.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at May 12, 2015 04:24 PM (St6BJ)
199
I know this is Rule One for True Capitalist Conservatives, but you might wanna think it through a little.
First, there are times when nobody BUYS the Boeing planes and the big-buck medical devices. People damn near ALWAYS buy $2 socks.
Second, American manufacturers have outsourced so much production -- cars, even airplanes and medical devices -- that fewer American citizens can afford to make use of the big-dollar devices that were made here, but are now made in China, Mexico and other places.
Oh, well. Stick to those Ayn Rand fantasies....
Posted by: MrScribbler at May 12, 2015 04:21 PM (P8YHq)
_________
Once again...rich countries make expensive things, poor countries make cheap things. It's how it has been for hundreds of years.
What you're essentially saying is that you want to have the manufacturing base of India or Mexico. Why in the fuck is that?
First, there are times when nobody BUYS the Boeing planes and the big-buck medical devices. People damn near ALWAYS buy $2 socks.
Second, American manufacturers have outsourced so much production -- cars, even airplanes and medical devices -- that fewer American citizens can afford to make use of the big-dollar devices that were made here, but are now made in China, Mexico and other places.
Oh, well. Stick to those Ayn Rand fantasies....
Posted by: MrScribbler at May 12, 2015 04:21 PM (P8YHq)
_________
Once again...rich countries make expensive things, poor countries make cheap things. It's how it has been for hundreds of years.
What you're essentially saying is that you want to have the manufacturing base of India or Mexico. Why in the fuck is that?
Posted by: HUCK / AKIN 2016 at May 12, 2015 04:25 PM (0LHZx)
200
Second, American manufacturers have outsourced so much production -- cars, even airplanes and medical devices -- that fewer American citizens can afford to make use of the big-dollar devices that were made here, but are now made in China, Mexico and other places.
I think I'm going to need proof to back that up. I'm not seeing any evidence that people suddenly can't afford to take vacations (use Boeing planes) or play X-Box.
And it's not Ayn Rand who says (said) Free Trade is a good thing. Economics generally does. You might check out this smart guy named Thomas Sowell. Or some other smart guy named Adam Smith.
I think I'm going to need proof to back that up. I'm not seeing any evidence that people suddenly can't afford to take vacations (use Boeing planes) or play X-Box.
And it's not Ayn Rand who says (said) Free Trade is a good thing. Economics generally does. You might check out this smart guy named Thomas Sowell. Or some other smart guy named Adam Smith.
Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - TrueCon at May 12, 2015 04:25 PM (kff5f)
201
" Socks for $2 is cheaper than $10 is it not? When you save that $8 as a consumer, you then have $8 to spend on something else. Which means you as a consumer are better off. "
Sounds like something Gracie Allen or any teenager whining for something new. It is on SAAAAALE, so I'm really saving you money!
Sounds like something Gracie Allen or any teenager whining for something new. It is on SAAAAALE, so I'm really saving you money!
Posted by: mustbequantum at May 12, 2015 04:25 PM (MIKMs)
202
Never take economic advice from a guy who lives IN A VAN, DOWN BY THE RIVER!
Posted by: Grump928(c) at May 12, 2015 04:25 PM (evdj2)
203
Excuse me, but how does this affect my monthly check from you whitey-white American taxpayers? You best not be late sending it to me, or else....... *comment translated from the Spanish by Mark Halperin*
Posted by: New "Undocumented American" at May 12, 2015 04:25 PM (sCHw2)
204
Big Labor gets smaller every year. In 10 years they will be pipsqueak labor.
Posted by: maddogg at May 12, 2015 04:25 PM (xWW96)
205
200 Or some other smart guy named Adam Smith.
Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - TrueCon at May 12, 2015 04:25 PM (kff5f)
Milton Friedman. The be-all and end-all in any discussion on how economics works.
Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - TrueCon at May 12, 2015 04:25 PM (kff5f)
Milton Friedman. The be-all and end-all in any discussion on how economics works.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at May 12, 2015 04:26 PM (St6BJ)
Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - TrueCon at May 12, 2015 04:26 PM (kff5f)
207
Free trade is benefits everyone in general, and hurts some people in the specific.
Posted by: Grump928(c) at May 12, 2015 04:26 PM (evdj2)
208
I don't remember goods being unaffordable for the average American when NOTHING came from China but firecrackers. Posted by: McAdams at May 12, 2015 04:18 PM (+nA84)
---------------------------------------------
You're talking about the old days. When there wasn't oppressive over-regulation, and profit-devouring business and corporate taxes.
You can also blame an out-of-control union leadership that kept demanding more and more and more.
---------------------------------------------
You're talking about the old days. When there wasn't oppressive over-regulation, and profit-devouring business and corporate taxes.
You can also blame an out-of-control union leadership that kept demanding more and more and more.
Posted by: Soona at May 12, 2015 04:26 PM (/HX7u)
209
And protectionism "worked", the Japanese had to build factories here in the US to get around all the barriers we put up.
____________
Not really. They built plants here because it made sense economically. There weren't all that many barriers imposed and most have long been removed, and yet Nissan and Toyota and Honda keep building American factories.
____________
Not really. They built plants here because it made sense economically. There weren't all that many barriers imposed and most have long been removed, and yet Nissan and Toyota and Honda keep building American factories.
Posted by: HUCK / AKIN 2016 at May 12, 2015 04:27 PM (0LHZx)
210
WTF are you yapping about private equity groups.
Socks for $2 is cheaper than $10 is it not? When you save that $8 as a
consumer, you then have $8 to spend on something else. Which means you
as a consumer are better off.
Jesus fucking Christ, it sounds like DailyKos here today.
Posted by: HUCK / AKIN 2016
Your example is completely absurd, you'll see American textile goods next to something from China and it's not a 500% markup for the same socks.
Again, somehow the average American was able to afford all of this before China and its slave labor force came on the scene.
You act like people couldn't afford to clothe themselves before ChiCom goods.
Socks for $2 is cheaper than $10 is it not? When you save that $8 as a
consumer, you then have $8 to spend on something else. Which means you
as a consumer are better off.
Jesus fucking Christ, it sounds like DailyKos here today.
Posted by: HUCK / AKIN 2016
Your example is completely absurd, you'll see American textile goods next to something from China and it's not a 500% markup for the same socks.
Again, somehow the average American was able to afford all of this before China and its slave labor force came on the scene.
You act like people couldn't afford to clothe themselves before ChiCom goods.
Posted by: McAdams at May 12, 2015 04:27 PM (+nA84)
211
Warren vs. Bush in the Main Event ... who are you backing ?
I'm rooting for casualties, thank you.
I'm rooting for casualties, thank you.
Posted by: Brother Cavil, down with Eph 6:12 at May 12, 2015 04:27 PM (DT3rQ)
212
is
Posted by: Grump928(c) at May 12, 2015 04:27 PM (evdj2)
213
Big Labor and Big Government regulations. The REAL job killers, especially the latter.
Federal Regulations cost the economy 1.88 TRILLION on 2014
http://tinyurl.com/kblkmfy
Federal Regulations cost the economy 1.88 TRILLION on 2014
http://tinyurl.com/kblkmfy
Posted by: wrg500 at May 12, 2015 04:27 PM (sgrzZ)
214
Every one of Obama's "promises" comes with an expiration date.
-
Often measured in microseconds.
-
Often measured in microseconds.
Posted by: The Great White Snark at May 12, 2015 04:27 PM (vk+Kb)
215
204 Big Labor gets smaller every year. In 10 years they will be pipsqueak labor.
Posted by: maddogg at May 12, 2015 04:25 PM (xWW96)
True. But the regulatory state gets bigger and more intrusive almost by the day.
Take away the EPA, OSHA, BLM and the ICC alone and watch this economy take off at warp speed. And imagine no IRS and a flat tax on top of that . . .
Posted by: maddogg at May 12, 2015 04:25 PM (xWW96)
True. But the regulatory state gets bigger and more intrusive almost by the day.
Take away the EPA, OSHA, BLM and the ICC alone and watch this economy take off at warp speed. And imagine no IRS and a flat tax on top of that . . .
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at May 12, 2015 04:28 PM (St6BJ)
216
Obama is about to unleash the Geat Hashtag War of 2015 against the left. Our children and grandchildren will read about it with their History brain implants.
Posted by: Roy at May 12, 2015 04:28 PM (VndSC)
217
I don't remember goods being unaffordable for the average American when NOTHING came from China but firecrackers. Posted by: McAdams at May 12, 2015 04:18 PM (+nA84)
___________
How much did a TV cost in 1980 relative to the average monthly salary vs today? It's a hell of a lot cheaper today. And in large part that's because TVs are made in cheap countries instead of here.
___________
How much did a TV cost in 1980 relative to the average monthly salary vs today? It's a hell of a lot cheaper today. And in large part that's because TVs are made in cheap countries instead of here.
Posted by: HUCK / AKIN 2016 at May 12, 2015 04:28 PM (0LHZx)
218
OT:
How about the Bill has gotten as handsy as Joe Biden so the campaign has to keep him away from any candy stripers.
How about the Bill has gotten as handsy as Joe Biden so the campaign has to keep him away from any candy stripers.
Posted by: DaveA at May 12, 2015 04:29 PM (DL2i+)
219
>>Reading the twitter comments, black people alway think we are required to take a beating from them.
IF we had a real media, the lesson learned might have been 'don't mess with strangers or the police because they very well might shoot you in the face'. And that would have been a better message for society. Rather than this idea that you can hurt anyone you want to and it's all somebody else's fault. You should just be allowed.
How on earth can decent people promote that? And yet, they do.
IF we had a real media, the lesson learned might have been 'don't mess with strangers or the police because they very well might shoot you in the face'. And that would have been a better message for society. Rather than this idea that you can hurt anyone you want to and it's all somebody else's fault. You should just be allowed.
How on earth can decent people promote that? And yet, they do.
Posted by: Lea at May 12, 2015 04:29 PM (lIU4e)
220
The Democrats are taking a principled stand---namely, they are, in principle, opposed to the unions finding Democrats willing to take their marching orders from the unions to primary the incumbents in the next elections.
Posted by: JB1000 at May 12, 2015 04:29 PM (16OL0)
221
I know you are joking. By the way, Madison is a very Liberal, very Educated, Very Progressive City. In other words, they do not allow many blacks to live there amongst them in their enlightened neighborhoods. I think it is about 7% black?
Posted by: rd at May 12, 2015 04:21 PM (r2TIL)
Madison is so liberal, in times like these they will bus enough authentically black people in from Chicago so that their riot isn't deprived.
The Madison leadership will, of course, give enough room to destroy so that the minority doesn't feel they are second-class rioters.
Equality in rioting is the next Selma.
Posted by: rd at May 12, 2015 04:21 PM (r2TIL)
Madison is so liberal, in times like these they will bus enough authentically black people in from Chicago so that their riot isn't deprived.
The Madison leadership will, of course, give enough room to destroy so that the minority doesn't feel they are second-class rioters.
Equality in rioting is the next Selma.
Posted by: jwest at May 12, 2015 04:30 PM (9ZZd+)
222
Milton Friedman. The be-all and end-all in any discussion on how economics works.
>>>
What am I chopped liver?
>>>
What am I chopped liver?
Posted by: John Maynard Keynes at May 12, 2015 04:30 PM (81UWZ)
223
217 How much did a TV cost in 1980 relative to the average monthly salary vs today? It's a hell of a lot cheaper today. And in large part that's because TVs are made in cheap countries instead of here.
Posted by: HUCK / AKIN 2016 at May 12, 2015 04:28 PM (0LHZx)
Cost of labor AND its Siamese twin, the cost of regulations. That's why most things have been going offshore for the past 40 odd years.
Posted by: HUCK / AKIN 2016 at May 12, 2015 04:28 PM (0LHZx)
Cost of labor AND its Siamese twin, the cost of regulations. That's why most things have been going offshore for the past 40 odd years.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at May 12, 2015 04:30 PM (St6BJ)
224
If you could get gigabit memory chips added to your cortex and get instant recall of encyclopedic knowledge, would you?
Posted by: Grump928(c) ponders the cyborg life at May 12, 2015 04:30 PM (evdj2)
225
Hall Monitor!
Posted by: guy who yells for the Hall Monitor at May 12, 2015 04:31 PM (wAQA5)
226
Take away the EPA, OSHA, BLM and the ICC alone and watch this economy take off at warp speed. And imagine no IRS and a flat tax on top of that . . .
Also the EEOC and the CPSC.
Whenever lefties proclaim that taxes should be raised because the economy in the 1950's was great even with higher taxes, I point out that none of these regulatory agencies existed in the 1950's.
Thanks, Nixon.
Also the EEOC and the CPSC.
Whenever lefties proclaim that taxes should be raised because the economy in the 1950's was great even with higher taxes, I point out that none of these regulatory agencies existed in the 1950's.
Thanks, Nixon.
Posted by: Gregory of Yardale at May 12, 2015 04:31 PM (O7MnT)
227
Jeb Bush vs anyone I'm writing in Rick Tempest.
Posted by: Kenway at May 12, 2015 04:31 PM (KGMoJ)
228
222 What am I chopped liver?
Posted by: John Maynard Keynes at May 12, 2015 04:30 PM (81UWZ)
Boiled shit.
Posted by: John Maynard Keynes at May 12, 2015 04:30 PM (81UWZ)
Boiled shit.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at May 12, 2015 04:31 PM (St6BJ)
229
Again, somehow the average American was able to afford all of this before China and its slave labor force came on the scene. You act like people couldn't afford to clothe themselves before ChiCom goods.
Posted by: McAdams at May 12, 2015 04:27 PM (+nA84)
-------------------------------------------
Refer to comment #208.
Posted by: McAdams at May 12, 2015 04:27 PM (+nA84)
-------------------------------------------
Refer to comment #208.
Posted by: Soona at May 12, 2015 04:31 PM (/HX7u)
230
If you could get gigabit memory chips added to your cortex and get instant recall of encyclopedic knowledge, would you?
Could I store pr0n on them?
Could I store pr0n on them?
Posted by: Gregory of Yardale at May 12, 2015 04:31 PM (O7MnT)
Posted by: Grump928(c) ponders the cyborg life at May 12, 2015 04:31 PM (evdj2)
232
What you're essentially saying is that you want to have the manufacturing base of India or Mexico. Why in the fuck is that?
Posted by: HUCK / AKIN 2016 at May 12, 2015 04:25 PM
No, I'm advocating for both, not either/or. If we tried for that, unemployment might be closer to a genuine five percent instead of Choom Boy's bogus numbers.
I'm a firm believer in fallback plans for a day when the economy takes a crap. Which, in case you haven't noticed, it has been doing for almost eight years. Income and savings are down; debt is up.
Posted by: HUCK / AKIN 2016 at May 12, 2015 04:25 PM
No, I'm advocating for both, not either/or. If we tried for that, unemployment might be closer to a genuine five percent instead of Choom Boy's bogus numbers.
I'm a firm believer in fallback plans for a day when the economy takes a crap. Which, in case you haven't noticed, it has been doing for almost eight years. Income and savings are down; debt is up.
Posted by: MrScribbler at May 12, 2015 04:31 PM (P8YHq)
233
http://www.thepeoplehistory.com/80selectrical.html
Average price of a TV in 1980 was $600 while the median income for a household was $16,300. You could buy 27 TVs with a median income.
I can buy a TV at Walmart today for under $300 and the median income is $50,000. You can buy 166 TVs with the median income
So relatively speaking TVs were 600% more expensive in 1980 compared to today.
In 1980 TVs were made in America.
Today they're not.
But yeah, free trade sucks.
Average price of a TV in 1980 was $600 while the median income for a household was $16,300. You could buy 27 TVs with a median income.
I can buy a TV at Walmart today for under $300 and the median income is $50,000. You can buy 166 TVs with the median income
So relatively speaking TVs were 600% more expensive in 1980 compared to today.
In 1980 TVs were made in America.
Today they're not.
But yeah, free trade sucks.
Posted by: HUCK / AKIN 2016 at May 12, 2015 04:32 PM (0LHZx)
234
How much did a TV cost in 1980 relative to the average monthly salary vs today? It's a hell of a lot cheaper today. And in large part that's because TVs are made in cheap countries instead of here.
Look at the price of computers. My first one was over 3000 grand in the mid 90's. Now you can get a laptop for 2-3 hundred dollars. Same concept.
Look at the price of computers. My first one was over 3000 grand in the mid 90's. Now you can get a laptop for 2-3 hundred dollars. Same concept.
Posted by: wrg500 at May 12, 2015 04:32 PM (sgrzZ)
235
230 If you could get gigabit memory chips added to your cortex and get instant recall of encyclopedic knowledge, would you?
Could I store pr0n on them?
Posted by: Gregory of Yardale at May 12, 2015 04:31 PM (O7MnT)
I'd rather add a few inches. To my height.
Could I store pr0n on them?
Posted by: Gregory of Yardale at May 12, 2015 04:31 PM (O7MnT)
I'd rather add a few inches. To my height.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at May 12, 2015 04:32 PM (St6BJ)
236
>>First, there are times when nobody BUYS the Boeing planes and the big-buck medical devices. People damn near ALWAYS buy $2 socks.
I feel like I really need to draw some graphs now...
I feel like I really need to draw some graphs now...
Posted by: Lea at May 12, 2015 04:32 PM (lIU4e)
Posted by: Grump928(c) ponders the cyborg life at May 12, 2015 04:32 PM (evdj2)
238
So how can the Senators not be allowed to see the trade deal because it's classified?
Forget the Senators how can a "trade deal" be classified.
Forget the Senators how can a "trade deal" be classified.
Posted by: DaveA at May 12, 2015 04:33 PM (DL2i+)
239
>>>Big Labor and Big Government regulations. The REAL job killers, especially the latter.
Dingdingding. We have a winner.
Dingdingding. We have a winner.
Posted by: Lea at May 12, 2015 04:33 PM (lIU4e)
240
How much did a TV cost in 1980 relative to the average monthly salary vs today? It's a hell of a lot cheaper today. And in large part that's because TVs are made in cheap countries instead of here.
Posted by: HUCK / AKIN 2016 at May 12, 2015 04:28 PM (0LHZx)
********************************
Heh, you stupid shit. Things cost so much more here because of regulations, and entitlements. Why not reform those two things instead of accepting offshore cheapness as a fait accompli? You really are a dishonest shitweasel.
Posted by: HUCK / AKIN 2016 at May 12, 2015 04:28 PM (0LHZx)
********************************
Heh, you stupid shit. Things cost so much more here because of regulations, and entitlements. Why not reform those two things instead of accepting offshore cheapness as a fait accompli? You really are a dishonest shitweasel.
Posted by: Obama at May 12, 2015 04:33 PM (xkSSa)
241
238 Forget the Senators how can a "trade deal" be classified.
Posted by: DaveA at May 12, 2015 04:33 PM (DL2i+)
The reason it's classified is classified.
Posted by: DaveA at May 12, 2015 04:33 PM (DL2i+)
The reason it's classified is classified.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at May 12, 2015 04:34 PM (St6BJ)
Posted by: Grump928(c) ponders the cyborg life at May 12, 2015 04:34 PM (evdj2)
243
If you could get gigabit memory chips added to your cortex and get instant recall of encyclopedic knowledge, would you?
Posted by: Grump928(c) ponders the cyborg life
...........................................
Maybe if they included all the Playboy archives.
If you could get gigabit memory chips added to your cortex and get instant recall of encyclopedic knowledge, would you?
Posted by: Grump928(c) ponders the cyborg life
...........................................
Maybe if they included all the Playboy archives.
Posted by: wth at May 12, 2015 04:34 PM (wAQA5)
244
240 Heh, you stupid shit. Things cost so much more here because of regulations, and entitlements. Why not reform those two things instead of accepting offshore cheapness as a fait accompli? You really are a dishonest shitweasel.
Posted by: Obama at May 12, 2015 04:33 PM (xkSSa)
THIS.
Posted by: Obama at May 12, 2015 04:33 PM (xkSSa)
THIS.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at May 12, 2015 04:34 PM (St6BJ)
245
118 Super Creepy Eric Hoteham: "I salute the Pubs for inciting this wonderful event."
Pretty sure the Stupid Party lacks such Machiavellian skills. Their paymasters told them to jump and they jumped as high as high as they could.
-----------------------------
So they got Dems fighting with each other, everyone hating Obama, Hillary hiding and they can look the Chamber of Commerce people in the eye and tell them they tried and will need more campaign cash to bring this puppy in. In Politics isn't this a win?
Pretty sure the Stupid Party lacks such Machiavellian skills. Their paymasters told them to jump and they jumped as high as high as they could.
-----------------------------
So they got Dems fighting with each other, everyone hating Obama, Hillary hiding and they can look the Chamber of Commerce people in the eye and tell them they tried and will need more campaign cash to bring this puppy in. In Politics isn't this a win?
Posted by: Super Creepy Eric Hoteham at May 12, 2015 04:34 PM (oDCMR)
246
One Question for Barky the First, Last and Only, if this trade pact is such a great idea, why the secrecy and the special no-backsies rules? Usually people aren't so eager to hide their brilliance behind NSA level paranoia.
Posted by: JB1000 at May 12, 2015 04:34 PM (16OL0)
247
You act like people couldn't afford to clothe themselves before ChiCom goods.
Oh, they could afford to clothe themselves. Feed themselves, too. Most of them could even afford 1 car.
They couldn't afford a second car, though. They couldn't afford a device which would fit in the pocket and have access to virtually all of the world's information. They couldn't afford cool wrist-watch things which would also track your activity levels, calories burned, and how well you sleep. They couldn't afford 40" TVs.
When you look at their purchasing power today as compared to just when I was a kid, the middle-tier of wage-earners has much more access to luxuries. A large part of that is due to free trade agreements with various countries- yes, including China.
Yes, Free Trade will hurt manufacturing jobs in some places (typically places with high wages). But it helps the economy (and consumers) over-all, and employes more people in *other* sectors.
Oh, they could afford to clothe themselves. Feed themselves, too. Most of them could even afford 1 car.
They couldn't afford a second car, though. They couldn't afford a device which would fit in the pocket and have access to virtually all of the world's information. They couldn't afford cool wrist-watch things which would also track your activity levels, calories burned, and how well you sleep. They couldn't afford 40" TVs.
When you look at their purchasing power today as compared to just when I was a kid, the middle-tier of wage-earners has much more access to luxuries. A large part of that is due to free trade agreements with various countries- yes, including China.
Yes, Free Trade will hurt manufacturing jobs in some places (typically places with high wages). But it helps the economy (and consumers) over-all, and employes more people in *other* sectors.
Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - TrueCon at May 12, 2015 04:35 PM (kff5f)
248
242 how can a "trade deal" be classified.
'National Security' is the Shutup! They Explained reasn.
Posted by: Grump928(c) ponders the cyborg life at May 12, 2015 04:34 PM (evdj2)
National Security is the other side of the Race Card.
'National Security' is the Shutup! They Explained reasn.
Posted by: Grump928(c) ponders the cyborg life at May 12, 2015 04:34 PM (evdj2)
National Security is the other side of the Race Card.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at May 12, 2015 04:35 PM (St6BJ)
249
Heh, you stupid shit. Things cost so much more here because of regulations, and entitlements. Why not reform those two things instead of accepting offshore cheapness as a fait accompli? You really are a dishonest shitweasel.
Posted by: Obama at May 12, 2015 04:33 PM (xkSSa)
_________
Yeah in 1980 there was no social security or medicare or OSHA or the EPA or any regulation. I think the tax rate was also 0%, right?
Posted by: Obama at May 12, 2015 04:33 PM (xkSSa)
_________
Yeah in 1980 there was no social security or medicare or OSHA or the EPA or any regulation. I think the tax rate was also 0%, right?
Posted by: HUCK / AKIN 2016 at May 12, 2015 04:35 PM (0LHZx)
250
HUCK / AKIN 2016: "Once again...rich countries make expensive things, poor countries make cheap things. It's how it has been for hundreds of years."
Rich countries that want to stay rich employ the entire spectrum of manufacturing. They don't make just "expensive" products and outsource/import everything else. That is not optimal.
There are never enough "high-paying" jobs for everyone and those who have these prized jobs cannot afford to subsidize all those who cannot acquire one. The entire socioeconomic ladder needs to be represented which means you make as much cheap, moderate, and high value product to engage the entire society.
Rich countries that want to stay rich employ the entire spectrum of manufacturing. They don't make just "expensive" products and outsource/import everything else. That is not optimal.
There are never enough "high-paying" jobs for everyone and those who have these prized jobs cannot afford to subsidize all those who cannot acquire one. The entire socioeconomic ladder needs to be represented which means you make as much cheap, moderate, and high value product to engage the entire society.
Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at May 12, 2015 04:35 PM (1CroS)
251
The new standard bearers of the democratic commie party: Warren and DiCommio
Posted by: Nevergiveup at May 12, 2015 04:35 PM (rDqRv)
252
so McAdams, what what overpriced piece of shit do you want us to be forced to buy from only you?
Posted by: other stuff Jesus said at May 12, 2015 04:35 PM (n5fTN)
253
Hey JJ and the rest of yew, to many to mention: Late to the action here, just wanted to say "GO ISREAL" Newby out....
Posted by: Dennis at May 12, 2015 04:36 PM (FIvdS)
254
249 Yeah in 1980 there was no social security or medicare or OSHA or the EPA or any regulation. I think the tax rate was also 0%, right?
Posted by: HUCK / AKIN 2016 at May 12, 2015 04:35 PM (0LHZx)
Fast forward to 1983. And then all that came after it. Like several million jobs and a 25 year period of sustained prosperity the world had never seen.
Posted by: HUCK / AKIN 2016 at May 12, 2015 04:35 PM (0LHZx)
Fast forward to 1983. And then all that came after it. Like several million jobs and a 25 year period of sustained prosperity the world had never seen.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at May 12, 2015 04:36 PM (St6BJ)
255
>>You act like people couldn't afford to clothe themselves before ChiCom goods.
People used to have smaller houses, spend much more on clothing and get less, and spent much more on food, as a percentage of income. But we spend more on cell phones and cable and whole bunch of other things now to make up the difference.
People used to have smaller houses, spend much more on clothing and get less, and spent much more on food, as a percentage of income. But we spend more on cell phones and cable and whole bunch of other things now to make up the difference.
Posted by: Lea at May 12, 2015 04:37 PM (lIU4e)
256
What GOP Senators were against this?
Posted by: prescient11 at May 12, 2015 04:37 PM (q5APL)
257
253 Hey JJ and the rest of yew, to many to mention: Late to the action here, just wanted to say "GO ISREAL" Newby out....
Posted by: Dennis at May 12, 2015 04:36 PM (FIvdS)
Click the link in my nic. And keep it IS-real.
Posted by: Dennis at May 12, 2015 04:36 PM (FIvdS)
Click the link in my nic. And keep it IS-real.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at May 12, 2015 04:37 PM (St6BJ)
258
223 217 How much did a TV cost in 1980 relative to the average monthly salary vs today? It's a hell of a lot cheaper today. And in large part that's because TVs are made in cheap countries instead of here.
Posted by: HUCK / AKIN 2016 at May 12, 2015 04:28 PM (0LHZx)
Back then, only larger thugs could carry away one of the larger screen televisions during riots. Today, thanks to technology and Chinese manufacturing, even the smallest punks can lift a flat screen while mostly peaceful demonstrating.
God bless free trade.
Posted by: HUCK / AKIN 2016 at May 12, 2015 04:28 PM (0LHZx)
Back then, only larger thugs could carry away one of the larger screen televisions during riots. Today, thanks to technology and Chinese manufacturing, even the smallest punks can lift a flat screen while mostly peaceful demonstrating.
God bless free trade.
Posted by: jwest at May 12, 2015 04:37 PM (9ZZd+)
259
Fast forward to 1983. And then all that came after it. Like several million jobs and a 25 year period of sustained prosperity the world had never seen.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at May 12, 2015 04:36 PM (St6BJ)
_________
Oh? SS, Medicare, OSHA, EPA and every other regulation went away after 1983? I didn't know that.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at May 12, 2015 04:36 PM (St6BJ)
_________
Oh? SS, Medicare, OSHA, EPA and every other regulation went away after 1983? I didn't know that.
Posted by: HUCK / AKIN 2016 at May 12, 2015 04:37 PM (0LHZx)
260
256 What GOP Senators were against this?
Posted by: prescient11 at May 12, 2015 04:37 PM (q5APL)
I'm sure Sessions and Cotton. Probably Cruz and Lee (I hope).
Posted by: prescient11 at May 12, 2015 04:37 PM (q5APL)
I'm sure Sessions and Cotton. Probably Cruz and Lee (I hope).
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at May 12, 2015 04:37 PM (St6BJ)
261
don did it...
Posted by: Dennis at May 12, 2015 04:38 PM (FIvdS)
262
You know who this helps don't you?
Posted by: Anthony Weiner, Once and FutureElected Official at May 12, 2015 04:38 PM (jXKtj)
263
193
Wisconsin, and in particular Madison, is the cradle of American Progressivism.
It's why Scott Walker's repeated victories there are much more meaningful politically, and sweeter emotionally. And why he is in my top tier. For now.
--------------------------
Dittos for me too. Then there all those bitter clingers (Joe/Jane Sixpack) that the Dems abandoned looking for new home. Imagine the Great Lakes States all Red. Its easy if you try.
Wisconsin, and in particular Madison, is the cradle of American Progressivism.
It's why Scott Walker's repeated victories there are much more meaningful politically, and sweeter emotionally. And why he is in my top tier. For now.
--------------------------
Dittos for me too. Then there all those bitter clingers (Joe/Jane Sixpack) that the Dems abandoned looking for new home. Imagine the Great Lakes States all Red. Its easy if you try.
Posted by: Super Creepy Eric Hoteham at May 12, 2015 04:38 PM (oDCMR)
264
What you're essentially saying is that you want to have the manufacturing base of India or Mexico. Why in the fuck is that?
You guys are debating as if it's "either/or" It isn't.
There can be a sensible balance between free trade and protecting your home economy, just as there can be a balance between regulation and business growth.
The issue should not be "should we have free trade" but "what kind of balanced trade policy should we have."
You guys are debating as if it's "either/or" It isn't.
There can be a sensible balance between free trade and protecting your home economy, just as there can be a balance between regulation and business growth.
The issue should not be "should we have free trade" but "what kind of balanced trade policy should we have."
Posted by: Gregory of Yardale at May 12, 2015 04:38 PM (O7MnT)
265
259 Oh? SS, Medicare, OSHA, EPA and every other regulation went away after 1983? I didn't know that.
Posted by: HUCK / AKIN 2016 at May 12, 2015 04:37 PM (0LHZx)
No dummy. Reagan's tax cuts started to take hold. He wanted to get rid of the DoE and other agencies to make the growth even more successful but was thwarted at every turn.
And what you fail to realize is that with more people paying taxes with more jobs created, you lower the dependency on the welfare state.
Posted by: HUCK / AKIN 2016 at May 12, 2015 04:37 PM (0LHZx)
No dummy. Reagan's tax cuts started to take hold. He wanted to get rid of the DoE and other agencies to make the growth even more successful but was thwarted at every turn.
And what you fail to realize is that with more people paying taxes with more jobs created, you lower the dependency on the welfare state.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at May 12, 2015 04:39 PM (St6BJ)
266
Republicans generally support the bill because that's what they do now, they uncritically support anything with the words "trade" or "freedom" in the title.
Over/under on when the "National Trade Freedom of Speech For Security Act" hits Congress?
Republicans generally support the bill because that's what they do now, they uncritically support anything with the words "trade" or "freedom" in the title.
Over/under on when the "National Trade Freedom of Speech For Security Act" hits Congress?
Posted by: IllTemperedCur at May 12, 2015 04:39 PM (lpeQC)
267
Rich countries that want to stay rich employ the entire spectrum of manufacturing. They don't make just "expensive" products and outsource/import everything else. That is not optimal.
Well, this is also true.
But the problem here is not free trade, it's (as has been mentioned) the regulatory environment. Get rid of a bunch of federal regs and watch manufacturing in the US take off again, because it will be cheaper again.
Well, this is also true.
But the problem here is not free trade, it's (as has been mentioned) the regulatory environment. Get rid of a bunch of federal regs and watch manufacturing in the US take off again, because it will be cheaper again.
Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - TrueCon at May 12, 2015 04:39 PM (kff5f)
268
You guys are debating as if it's "either/or" It isn't.
There can be a sensible balance between free trade and protecting your home economy, just as there can be a balance between regulation and business growth.
The issue should not be "should we have free trade" but "what kind of balanced trade policy should we have."
Posted by: Gregory of Yardale at May 12, 2015 04:38 PM (O7MnT)
___________
And we do have a balance. But what the protectionists want is to go back to the "good old days" when a TV cost 600% more than it does now, just so a few thousand Americans can get jobs working in TV factories.
It's the equivalent of paying higher taxes, so the govt can "create jobs".
There can be a sensible balance between free trade and protecting your home economy, just as there can be a balance between regulation and business growth.
The issue should not be "should we have free trade" but "what kind of balanced trade policy should we have."
Posted by: Gregory of Yardale at May 12, 2015 04:38 PM (O7MnT)
___________
And we do have a balance. But what the protectionists want is to go back to the "good old days" when a TV cost 600% more than it does now, just so a few thousand Americans can get jobs working in TV factories.
It's the equivalent of paying higher taxes, so the govt can "create jobs".
Posted by: HUCK / AKIN 2016 at May 12, 2015 04:39 PM (0LHZx)
269
The issue should not be "should we have free trade" but "what kind of balanced trade policy should we have."
Posted by: Gregory of Yardale at May 12, 2015 04:38 PM (O7MnT)
The kind that is not SECRET
Posted by: Gregory of Yardale at May 12, 2015 04:38 PM (O7MnT)
The kind that is not SECRET
Posted by: Nevergiveup at May 12, 2015 04:40 PM (rDqRv)
270
Things cost so much more here because of regulations, and entitlements. Why not reform those two things instead of accepting offshore cheapness as a fait accompli? You really are a dishonest shitweasel.
Posted by: Obama at May 12, 2015 04:33 PM (xkSSa)
THIS.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at May 12, 2015 04:34 PM (St6BJ)
Agreed.
Posted by: Obama at May 12, 2015 04:33 PM (xkSSa)
THIS.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at May 12, 2015 04:34 PM (St6BJ)
Agreed.
Posted by: rd at May 12, 2015 04:40 PM (r2TIL)
271
Look at the price of computers. My first one was
over 3000 grand in the mid 90's. Now you can get a laptop for 2-3
hundred dollars. Same concept.
Posted by: wrg500 at May 12, 2015 04:32 PM (sgrzZ)
'tis better to use an example that does not conflate the economies of scale of semiconductor processing with that of the benefits of free trade. The computers of today are not the same goods as the computers of the '80s and '90s, nor are they as labor intensive to produce. The fact that they are better and cheaper now is not soley to do with them being manufactured in whole or in part by slave labor overseas.
over 3000 grand in the mid 90's. Now you can get a laptop for 2-3
hundred dollars. Same concept.
Posted by: wrg500 at May 12, 2015 04:32 PM (sgrzZ)
'tis better to use an example that does not conflate the economies of scale of semiconductor processing with that of the benefits of free trade. The computers of today are not the same goods as the computers of the '80s and '90s, nor are they as labor intensive to produce. The fact that they are better and cheaper now is not soley to do with them being manufactured in whole or in part by slave labor overseas.
Posted by: flounder at May 12, 2015 04:41 PM (ecDRv)
272
What you also fail to see Moo Moo or whoever the hell you are is that every year the government adds thousands of new regulations to the federal registry. 85,000 pages worth were added last year alone.
As big as the government was in the 80's it's grown by geometric proportions since then and continues to do so.
What you also fail to see Moo Moo or whoever the hell you are is that every year the government adds thousands of new regulations to the federal registry. 85,000 pages worth were added last year alone.
As big as the government was in the 80's it's grown by geometric proportions since then and continues to do so.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at May 12, 2015 04:41 PM (St6BJ)
273
The TV example isn't a particularly good one, as advances in technology contribute to a sizable portion of the cost reduction.
The socks and TV examples are all very well and good, but what happens to the 10,000 American sockmakers surplused? If they are able to find gainful employment, great, no harm no foul. But if not? And if this process repeats enough times, then there aren't many jobs left, particularly for those of lesser capabilities.
In the "hundreds of years" ago examples, these folks could work at farm labor or other menial tasks, but a lot of those positions are less available now.
The socks and TV examples are all very well and good, but what happens to the 10,000 American sockmakers surplused? If they are able to find gainful employment, great, no harm no foul. But if not? And if this process repeats enough times, then there aren't many jobs left, particularly for those of lesser capabilities.
In the "hundreds of years" ago examples, these folks could work at farm labor or other menial tasks, but a lot of those positions are less available now.
Posted by: Moderate Salami at May 12, 2015 04:41 PM (/Ho8c)
274
I'm thinking if you are against this trade deal you are a racist and a H8er and a mouth breather.
Posted by: Super Creepy Eric Hoteham at May 12, 2015 04:41 PM (oDCMR)
275
264 What you're essentially saying is that you want to have the manufacturing base of India or Mexico. Why in the fuck is that?
If you want to dominate the world in manufacturing, bring high paying jobs to the masses like in the '50s and '60s, simply adopt the Fair Tax Plan.
With the stroke of a pen, the U.S. would be the only logical place to manufacture, exports would skyrocket and imported goods would fall.
If you want to dominate the world in manufacturing, bring high paying jobs to the masses like in the '50s and '60s, simply adopt the Fair Tax Plan.
With the stroke of a pen, the U.S. would be the only logical place to manufacture, exports would skyrocket and imported goods would fall.
Posted by: jwest at May 12, 2015 04:41 PM (9ZZd+)
276
Things cost so much more here because of regulations, and entitlements. Why not reform those two things instead of accepting offshore cheapness as a fait accompli? You really are a dishonest shitweasel.
Posted by: Obama at May 12, 2015 04:33 PM (xkSSa)
THIS.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at May 12, 2015 04:34 PM (St6BJ)
Agreed.
Posted by: rd at May 12, 2015 04:40 PM
It is known.
Posted by: Obama at May 12, 2015 04:33 PM (xkSSa)
THIS.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at May 12, 2015 04:34 PM (St6BJ)
Agreed.
Posted by: rd at May 12, 2015 04:40 PM
It is known.
Posted by: Grump928(c) ponders the cyborg life at May 12, 2015 04:42 PM (evdj2)
277
Rich countries that want to stay rich employ the entire spectrum of manufacturing. They don't make just "expensive" products and outsource/import everything else. That is not optimal.
__________
Bullshit. How many sock factories are there in Germany or Japan or Switzerland? Zero. That's because it is economic foolishness for rich countries to make low value products like socks.
__________
Bullshit. How many sock factories are there in Germany or Japan or Switzerland? Zero. That's because it is economic foolishness for rich countries to make low value products like socks.
Posted by: HUCK / AKIN 2016 at May 12, 2015 04:42 PM (0LHZx)
278
I actually agree with Liz Warren on one thing; it would be good to have the big banks split up or tightly regulated.
Where I disagree is that smaller banks should be less regulated and given more room to compete and innovate.
Where I disagree is that smaller banks should be less regulated and given more room to compete and innovate.
Posted by: Gregory of Yardale at May 12, 2015 04:42 PM (O7MnT)
279
how can a "trade deal" be classified. 'National Security' is the Shutup! They Explained reasn. Posted by: Grump928(c) ponders the cyborg life at May 12, 2015 04:34 PM (evdj2)
National Security is the other side of the Race Card.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at May 12, 2015 04:35 PM (St6BJ)
---------------------------------------------
As I said upthread, this trade deal in a large part was to open up military arms sales to people of "questionable character (or religion)".
National Security is the other side of the Race Card.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at May 12, 2015 04:35 PM (St6BJ)
---------------------------------------------
As I said upthread, this trade deal in a large part was to open up military arms sales to people of "questionable character (or religion)".
Posted by: Soona at May 12, 2015 04:42 PM (/HX7u)
280
My Opinion, Big Private Sector Union Labor does not have to be a problem, and can do some good IF we have right-to-work laws and reasonable NLRB regulations.
Public unions are a problem, just look at the treasury/IRS Union protecting Lois Lerner.
Public unions are a problem, just look at the treasury/IRS Union protecting Lois Lerner.
Posted by: rd at May 12, 2015 04:42 PM (r2TIL)
281
What you're essentially saying is that you want to have the manufacturing base of India or Mexico. Why in the fuck is that?
Manufacturing location has a lot to do with the education of the populous and skill set. Would you fly in a 747 manufactured in say Bangladesh? Yea, the cost of labor is much lower but the skill set education is not there. Can a woman from Bangladesh with maybe a 2nd grade education run a loom to make cloth sure.
Manufacturing location has a lot to do with the education of the populous and skill set. Would you fly in a 747 manufactured in say Bangladesh? Yea, the cost of labor is much lower but the skill set education is not there. Can a woman from Bangladesh with maybe a 2nd grade education run a loom to make cloth sure.
Posted by: wrg500 at May 12, 2015 04:43 PM (sgrzZ)
282
The federal republic tending only to the common defense, defending the borders and preventing trade wars between the Soverign States. No alphabet agencies, six cabinet level secretaries, no IRS, flat tax on all income no matter the source. Did I mention Soverign States? If you don't like how things are run in Texas either get it changed or move somewhere else.
Washington should be just a nice museum and monument town.
Washington should be just a nice museum and monument town.
Posted by: Dave at Buffalo Roam at May 12, 2015 04:43 PM (PKCL4)
283
Super Creepy Eric Hoteham: "So they got Dems fighting with each other, everyone hating Obama, Hillary hiding and they can look the Chamber of Commerce people in the eye and tell them they tried and will need more campaign cash to bring this puppy in. In Politics isn't this a win?"
I think they just stumbled into this particular "win". What actually happened was the GOPe wanted to push CoC agenda because that's what it does. It wanted the deal. Anything else was secondary and, likely, not even considered.
I think they just stumbled into this particular "win". What actually happened was the GOPe wanted to push CoC agenda because that's what it does. It wanted the deal. Anything else was secondary and, likely, not even considered.
Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at May 12, 2015 04:43 PM (1CroS)
284
278 I actually agree with Liz Warren on one thing; it would be good to have the big banks split up or tightly regulated.
Where I disagree is that smaller banks should be less regulated and given more room to compete and innovate.
Posted by: Gregory of Yardale at May 12, 2015 04:42 PM (O7MnT)
With Dodd-Fagg, the banks have been all but nationalized. This is another in a series of fascistic maneuvers that rewards loyalty by allowing the big guys to crush any and all competition.
Where I disagree is that smaller banks should be less regulated and given more room to compete and innovate.
Posted by: Gregory of Yardale at May 12, 2015 04:42 PM (O7MnT)
With Dodd-Fagg, the banks have been all but nationalized. This is another in a series of fascistic maneuvers that rewards loyalty by allowing the big guys to crush any and all competition.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at May 12, 2015 04:43 PM (St6BJ)
285
>>The fact that they are better and cheaper now is not soley to do with them being manufactured in whole or in part by slave labor overseas.
Again, I feel like I need to start drawing graphs. Find the early adopter graph and that's basically how the costs of all new tech goes...
Again, I feel like I need to start drawing graphs. Find the early adopter graph and that's basically how the costs of all new tech goes...
Posted by: Lea at May 12, 2015 04:43 PM (lIU4e)
286
If those few thousand Americans can't find jobs, we're paying even higher costs thru welfare/SNAP, and not in making elective purchases, either.
Posted by: Moderate Salami at May 12, 2015 04:43 PM (/Ho8c)
Posted by: davidt at May 12, 2015 04:44 PM (XPfM7)
288
So, Barack Obama is a pee pee head? Who'd a thunk it?
His name is actually Barack Hussein Failure Obama--it's his middle name.
But you will find him in the encyclopedia Britannica under "shitweasel."
His name is actually Barack Hussein Failure Obama--it's his middle name.
But you will find him in the encyclopedia Britannica under "shitweasel."
Posted by: tcn in AK at May 12, 2015 04:44 PM (+YMhA)
289
I don't need to know the details of this "free trade" legislation to know that I'm opposed to it.
Our government overlords have proven themselves beyond any doubt to be filthy criminal lying motherfuckers. All of them.
Any legislation based on "trust me" should be dismissed out of hand.
Our government overlords have proven themselves beyond any doubt to be filthy criminal lying motherfuckers. All of them.
Any legislation based on "trust me" should be dismissed out of hand.
Posted by: Cloyd Freud, Unemployed at May 12, 2015 04:45 PM (8W5zZ)
290
"Back then, only larger thugs could carry away one of the larger screen televisions during riots. Today, thanks to technology and Chinese manufacturing, even the smallest punks can lift a flat screen while mostly peaceful demonstrating."
Yes, please, let them touch them.
"Back then, only larger thugs could carry away one of the larger screen televisions during riots. Today, thanks to technology and Chinese manufacturing, even the smallest punks can lift a flat screen while mostly peaceful demonstrating."
Yes, please, let them touch them.
Posted by: Celine Dion at May 12, 2015 04:45 PM (OD2ni)
291
273 The TV example isn't a particularly good one, as advances in technology contribute to a sizable portion of the cost reduction.
The socks and TV examples are all very well and good, but what happens to the 10,000 American sockmakers surplused? If they are able to find gainful employment, great, no harm no foul. But if not? And if this process repeats enough times, then there aren't many jobs left, particularly for those of lesser capabilities.
In the "hundreds of years" ago examples, these folks could work at farm labor or other menial tasks, but a lot of those positions are less available now.
Posted by: Moderate Salami at May 12, 2015 04:41 PM (/Ho8c)
____________
For every 10,000 people who lost their jobs making socks, we created 10,000 jobs making software and planes and microchips and medical devices, etc.
Now of course it's not the same 10,000 people switching jobs. But in a macro economy it doesn't matter. What matter s is we exchange 10K low value added jobs for 10K high added value jobs.
And even if the ratio isn't 1:1 but lower, it's still an economic plus. By that I mean we lose 10,000 jobs paying $12/hr making socks but gain 8000 jobs paying $75K a year making planes, we're better off.
The socks and TV examples are all very well and good, but what happens to the 10,000 American sockmakers surplused? If they are able to find gainful employment, great, no harm no foul. But if not? And if this process repeats enough times, then there aren't many jobs left, particularly for those of lesser capabilities.
In the "hundreds of years" ago examples, these folks could work at farm labor or other menial tasks, but a lot of those positions are less available now.
Posted by: Moderate Salami at May 12, 2015 04:41 PM (/Ho8c)
____________
For every 10,000 people who lost their jobs making socks, we created 10,000 jobs making software and planes and microchips and medical devices, etc.
Now of course it's not the same 10,000 people switching jobs. But in a macro economy it doesn't matter. What matter s is we exchange 10K low value added jobs for 10K high added value jobs.
And even if the ratio isn't 1:1 but lower, it's still an economic plus. By that I mean we lose 10,000 jobs paying $12/hr making socks but gain 8000 jobs paying $75K a year making planes, we're better off.
Posted by: HUCK / AKIN 2016 at May 12, 2015 04:45 PM (0LHZx)
292
287 Was Russian control of some US produced uranium involved in this deal?
Oh, wait, secret.
Posted by: davidt at May 12, 2015 04:44 PM (XPfM7)
Secret. Strong enough for Putin, but made by Hillary.
Oh, wait, secret.
Posted by: davidt at May 12, 2015 04:44 PM (XPfM7)
Secret. Strong enough for Putin, but made by Hillary.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at May 12, 2015 04:45 PM (St6BJ)
293
>>The socks and TV examples are all very well and good, but what happens to the 10,000 American sockmakers surplused?
Who will employ the drivers of buggies? Whither the telephone operators jobs?
A healthy economy will absorb these things. The problem is that we currently are in a recession/depression, not free trade.
Who will employ the drivers of buggies? Whither the telephone operators jobs?
A healthy economy will absorb these things. The problem is that we currently are in a recession/depression, not free trade.
Posted by: Lea at May 12, 2015 04:45 PM (lIU4e)
294
I'm interviewing for a job shelving books at the library today. Part time. I am a registered architect with 30 years of experience. What is wrong with this picture?
Posted by: tcn in AK at May 12, 2015 04:45 PM (+YMhA)
295
Can a woman from Bangladesh with maybe a 2nd grade education run a loom to make cloth sure.
Posted by: wrg500 at May 12, 2015 04:43 PM (sgrzZ)
__________
BINGO!!!
That's why we shouldn't care about those jobs. You're making my case for me.
Posted by: wrg500 at May 12, 2015 04:43 PM (sgrzZ)
__________
BINGO!!!
That's why we shouldn't care about those jobs. You're making my case for me.
Posted by: HUCK / AKIN 2016 at May 12, 2015 04:46 PM (0LHZx)
296
283 Super Creepy Eric Hoteham: "So they got Dems fighting with each other, everyone hating Obama, Hillary hiding and they can look the Chamber of Commerce people in the eye and tell them they tried and will need more campaign cash to bring this puppy in. In Politics isn't this a win?"
I think they just stumbled into this particular "win". What actually happened was the GOPe wanted to push CoC agenda because that's what it does. It wanted the deal. Anything else was secondary and, likely, not even considered.
----------------------
Hey, they roped a dope with Obama who desperately needs to keep his few remaining Dems loyal. Pubs win now and in 2016. Hillary at some point has to address this issue publicly. How can she do this while scamming $Ms on her charity? Its is a wonderful wedge issue that tears Dems apart. And I think the Pubs knew this.
I think they just stumbled into this particular "win". What actually happened was the GOPe wanted to push CoC agenda because that's what it does. It wanted the deal. Anything else was secondary and, likely, not even considered.
----------------------
Hey, they roped a dope with Obama who desperately needs to keep his few remaining Dems loyal. Pubs win now and in 2016. Hillary at some point has to address this issue publicly. How can she do this while scamming $Ms on her charity? Its is a wonderful wedge issue that tears Dems apart. And I think the Pubs knew this.
Posted by: Super Creepy Eric Hoteham at May 12, 2015 04:46 PM (oDCMR)
297
In the "hundreds of years" ago examples, these folks could work at farm labor or other menial tasks, but a lot of those positions are less available now.
Posted by: Moderate Salami at May 12, 2015 04:41 PM (/Ho8c)
----------------------------------------
Not because of having or not having trade deals. It's because we have an unchecked southern border where low-wage workers became a dime a dozen, so to speak.
Posted by: Moderate Salami at May 12, 2015 04:41 PM (/Ho8c)
----------------------------------------
Not because of having or not having trade deals. It's because we have an unchecked southern border where low-wage workers became a dime a dozen, so to speak.
Posted by: Soona at May 12, 2015 04:47 PM (/HX7u)
298
278 I actually agree with Liz Warren on one thing; it would be good to have the big banks split up or tightly regulated.
Where I disagree is that smaller banks should be less regulated and given more room to compete and innovate.
Posted by: Gregory of Yardale
sounds good but the big banks or whatever other industry always always always capture the regulators and use it to crush their competition. but with the right people in charge it will be different this time. who the fuck do you think wrote dodd frank? the gay guy and the old fool?
Where I disagree is that smaller banks should be less regulated and given more room to compete and innovate.
Posted by: Gregory of Yardale
sounds good but the big banks or whatever other industry always always always capture the regulators and use it to crush their competition. but with the right people in charge it will be different this time. who the fuck do you think wrote dodd frank? the gay guy and the old fool?
Posted by: other stuff Jesus said at May 12, 2015 04:47 PM (n5fTN)
299
Any legislation based on "trust me" should be dismissed out of hand.
Posted by: Cloyd Freud, Unemployed at May 12, 2015 04:45 PM (8W5zZ)
I'm not an economic guru, but THIS!
Any legislation based on "trust me" should be dismissed out of hand.
Posted by: Cloyd Freud, Unemployed at May 12, 2015 04:45 PM (8W5zZ)
I'm not an economic guru, but THIS!
Posted by: Nevergiveup at May 12, 2015 04:47 PM (rDqRv)
300
Blue on blue:
Democratic senator Sherrod Brown is subtly accusing President Barack Obama of sexism in his attacks on Senator Elizabeth Warren, also a Democrat.
"I think the president was disrespectful to her by the way he did that...made this more personal," Brown told reporters.
"I think referring to her as her first name, when he might not have done that for a male senator, perhaps--I've said enough."
Democratic senator Sherrod Brown is subtly accusing President Barack Obama of sexism in his attacks on Senator Elizabeth Warren, also a Democrat.
"I think the president was disrespectful to her by the way he did that...made this more personal," Brown told reporters.
"I think referring to her as her first name, when he might not have done that for a male senator, perhaps--I've said enough."
Posted by: The Great White Snark at May 12, 2015 04:47 PM (p+NPl)
301
I'm interviewing for a job shelving books at the library today. Part time. I am a registered architect with 30 years of experience. What is wrong with this picture?
You don't know the Dewey Decimal System?
You don't know the Dewey Decimal System?
Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - TrueCon at May 12, 2015 04:47 PM (kff5f)
302
294 I'm interviewing for a job shelving books at the library today. Part time. I am a registered architect with 30 years of experience. What is wrong with this picture?
Posted by: tcn in AK at May 12, 2015 04:45 PM (+YMhA)
I visited Russia in mid '92. Female scientists and doctors who made a few measly rubles by day subsidized their income by earning a few hundred every night as prostitukas.
NB - this is NOT a suggestion for you, merely a side note.
Posted by: tcn in AK at May 12, 2015 04:45 PM (+YMhA)
I visited Russia in mid '92. Female scientists and doctors who made a few measly rubles by day subsidized their income by earning a few hundred every night as prostitukas.
NB - this is NOT a suggestion for you, merely a side note.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at May 12, 2015 04:47 PM (St6BJ)
303
You're making my case for me.
Posted by: HUCK / AKIN 2016 at May 12, 2015 04:46 PM (0LHZx)
There is no case for you. Please go back under your bridge and stay there.
Posted by: HUCK / AKIN 2016 at May 12, 2015 04:46 PM (0LHZx)
There is no case for you. Please go back under your bridge and stay there.
Posted by: tcn in AK at May 12, 2015 04:47 PM (+YMhA)
304
And even if the ratio isn't 1:1 but lower, it's
still an economic plus. By that I mean we lose 10,000 jobs paying $12/hr
making socks but gain 8000 jobs paying $75K a year making planes,
we're better off.
Posted by: HUCK / AKIN
Sounds great in theory, but we're losing 10,000 jobs paying $12/hr making socks and replacing them with 6,000 jobs making $8.50 serving coffee.
still an economic plus. By that I mean we lose 10,000 jobs paying $12/hr
making socks but gain 8000 jobs paying $75K a year making planes,
we're better off.
Posted by: HUCK / AKIN
Sounds great in theory, but we're losing 10,000 jobs paying $12/hr making socks and replacing them with 6,000 jobs making $8.50 serving coffee.
Posted by: Moderate Salami at May 12, 2015 04:47 PM (/Ho8c)
305
Who will employ the drivers of buggies? Whither the telephone operators jobs?
A healthy economy will absorb these things. The problem is that we currently are in a recession/depression, not free trade.
Posted by: Lea at May 12, 2015 04:45 PM (lIU4e)
________
Creative destruction. It's what made America great.
A healthy economy will absorb these things. The problem is that we currently are in a recession/depression, not free trade.
Posted by: Lea at May 12, 2015 04:45 PM (lIU4e)
________
Creative destruction. It's what made America great.
Posted by: HUCK / AKIN 2016 at May 12, 2015 04:47 PM (0LHZx)
306
BINGO!!!
That's why we shouldn't care about those jobs. You're making my case for me.
Posted by: HUCK / AKIN 2016 at May 12, 2015 04:46 PM (0LHZx)
Lol, blind squirrel, acorn moment
BINGO!!!
That's why we shouldn't care about those jobs. You're making my case for me.
Posted by: HUCK / AKIN 2016 at May 12, 2015 04:46 PM (0LHZx)
Lol, blind squirrel, acorn moment
Posted by: wrg500 at May 12, 2015 04:48 PM (sgrzZ)
307
301 You don't know the Dewey Decimal System?
Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - TrueCon at May 12, 2015 04:47 PM (kff5f)
In Samizdat Library, Decimal System file YOU!
Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - TrueCon at May 12, 2015 04:47 PM (kff5f)
In Samizdat Library, Decimal System file YOU!
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at May 12, 2015 04:48 PM (St6BJ)
308
Sounds great in theory, but we're losing 10,000 jobs paying $12/hr making socks and replacing them with 6,000 jobs making $8.50 serving coffee.
Posted by: Moderate Salami at May 12, 2015 04:47 PM (/Ho8c)
_________
That's just not true.
Posted by: Moderate Salami at May 12, 2015 04:47 PM (/Ho8c)
_________
That's just not true.
Posted by: HUCK / AKIN 2016 at May 12, 2015 04:48 PM (0LHZx)
309
Huck/Akin is moo moo isn't it?
Posted by: Nevergiveup at May 12, 2015 04:48 PM (rDqRv)
310
"...and backward looking towards the past."
I never get why this is supposed to be an insult; some sort of "gotcha" that there's no comeback to.
I hope when they mandate that all humans plug their brains into the worldwide web, I get labeled as "backwards looking towards the past."
I never get why this is supposed to be an insult; some sort of "gotcha" that there's no comeback to.
I hope when they mandate that all humans plug their brains into the worldwide web, I get labeled as "backwards looking towards the past."
Posted by: RKae at May 12, 2015 04:48 PM (gUrQv)
311
Racism, straight up
Posted by: disgusting oratory at May 12, 2015 04:48 PM (FXTnC)
312
Madison is so liberal, in times like these they will bus enough authentically black people in from Chicago so that their riot isn't deprived. TPosted by: jwest at May 12, 2015 04:30 PM (9ZZd+)
--
They're not that self aware. Trust me.
--
They're not that self aware. Trust me.
Posted by: WisRich at May 12, 2015 04:49 PM (hdpay)
313
You don't know the Dewey Decimal System?
Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - TrueCon at May 12, 2015 04:47 PM (kff5f)
Did you miss the 30 years part? I knew Dewey when he lived in a card catalog.
Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - TrueCon at May 12, 2015 04:47 PM (kff5f)
Did you miss the 30 years part? I knew Dewey when he lived in a card catalog.
Posted by: tcn in AK at May 12, 2015 04:49 PM (+YMhA)
314
recession/depression, not free trade.
Posted by: Lea
Yes, recession/depression. How'd we get here?
Posted by: Lea
Yes, recession/depression. How'd we get here?
Posted by: Moderate Salami at May 12, 2015 04:49 PM (/Ho8c)
Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - TrueCon at May 12, 2015 04:49 PM (kff5f)
316
311 Racism, straight up
Posted by: disgusting oratory at May 12, 2015 04:48 PM (FXTnC)
Young, gifted, furry and black.
Posted by: disgusting oratory at May 12, 2015 04:48 PM (FXTnC)
Young, gifted, furry and black.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at May 12, 2015 04:49 PM (St6BJ)
317
309 Huck/Akin is moo moo isn't it?
Posted by: Nevergiveup at May 12, 2015 04:48 PM (rDqRv)
Oh yeah.
You didn't get the memo?
Posted by: Nevergiveup at May 12, 2015 04:48 PM (rDqRv)
Oh yeah.
You didn't get the memo?
Posted by: tcn in AK at May 12, 2015 04:49 PM (+YMhA)
318
Hey look. Moo moo is lying through his fucking teeth again accusing people of things they've never said.
Posted by: Buzzion at May 12, 2015 04:49 PM (z/Ubi)
319
Doesn't anyone believe that we can make sock knitting machines that are efficient and require very little human labor to run?
I work in an industry that uses some robotics, and the stuff I see is AMAZING.
If we get reasonable government regulations, reasonable taxes, and a stable economy, production like that will come back to the US. It will start (and has started already) with boutique, high-end deluxe products. We can do it, but instead of a factory employing hundreds, it will employ a dozen or so people, and a bunch of robots.
I work in an industry that uses some robotics, and the stuff I see is AMAZING.
If we get reasonable government regulations, reasonable taxes, and a stable economy, production like that will come back to the US. It will start (and has started already) with boutique, high-end deluxe products. We can do it, but instead of a factory employing hundreds, it will employ a dozen or so people, and a bunch of robots.
Posted by: rd at May 12, 2015 04:50 PM (r2TIL)
Posted by: Moderate Salami at May 12, 2015 04:50 PM (/Ho8c)
321
309 Huck/Akin is moo moo isn't it?
Posted by: Nevergiveup at May 12, 2015 04:48 PM (rDqRv)
If the Moo fits . . .
Posted by: Nevergiveup at May 12, 2015 04:48 PM (rDqRv)
If the Moo fits . . .
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at May 12, 2015 04:50 PM (St6BJ)
322
Yes, recession/depression. How'd we get here?
Posted by: Moderate Salami at May 12, 2015 04:49 PM (/Ho8c)
Over regulation, and government interference in private markets.
Posted by: Moderate Salami at May 12, 2015 04:49 PM (/Ho8c)
Over regulation, and government interference in private markets.
Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - TrueCon at May 12, 2015 04:50 PM (kff5f)
323
NB - this is NOT a suggestion for you, merely a side note.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at May 12, 2015 04:47 PM (St6BJ)
Not sure my old carcass is ready for that sort of exertion....
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at May 12, 2015 04:47 PM (St6BJ)
Not sure my old carcass is ready for that sort of exertion....
Posted by: tcn in AK at May 12, 2015 04:50 PM (+YMhA)
324
Oh yeah.
You didn't get the memo?
Posted by: tcn in AK at May 12, 2015 04:49 PM (+YMhA)
Sigh, no. I'm always the last to know.
Shit
You didn't get the memo?
Posted by: tcn in AK at May 12, 2015 04:49 PM (+YMhA)
Sigh, no. I'm always the last to know.
Shit
Posted by: Nevergiveup at May 12, 2015 04:50 PM (rDqRv)
325
Was Russian control of some US produced uranium involved in this deal?Oh, wait, secret.
Posted by: davidt at May 12, 2015 04:44 PM (XPfM7)
-----------------------------------------------
Probably. IOW, most likely.
Posted by: davidt at May 12, 2015 04:44 PM (XPfM7)
-----------------------------------------------
Probably. IOW, most likely.
Posted by: Soona at May 12, 2015 04:50 PM (/HX7u)
326
Over regulation, and government interference in private markets.
Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - TrueCon
Agree.
Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - TrueCon
Agree.
Posted by: Moderate Salami at May 12, 2015 04:51 PM (/Ho8c)
327
If we get reasonable government regulations, reasonable taxes, and a stable economy, production like that will come back to the US. It will start (and has started already) with boutique, high-end deluxe products. We can do it, but instead of a factory employing hundreds, it will employ a dozen or so people, and a bunch of robots.
Posted by: rd at May 12, 2015 04:50 PM (r2TIL)
_________
Key words....high-end luxury products.
That's always going to be manufactured here. $2 socks will never be manufactured here again, and that's a good thing.
Posted by: rd at May 12, 2015 04:50 PM (r2TIL)
_________
Key words....high-end luxury products.
That's always going to be manufactured here. $2 socks will never be manufactured here again, and that's a good thing.
Posted by: HUCK / AKIN 2016 at May 12, 2015 04:51 PM (0LHZx)
328
Of course, if I do find gainful employment, I won't be here trading bon mots with the beautiful people all day....
Posted by: tcn in AK at May 12, 2015 04:51 PM (+YMhA)
329
Over regulation, and government interference in private markets.
Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - TrueCon at May 12, 2015 04:50 PM (kff5f)
----------------------------------------------
The 800 lb. gorilla in the room? Obamacare.
Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - TrueCon at May 12, 2015 04:50 PM (kff5f)
----------------------------------------------
The 800 lb. gorilla in the room? Obamacare.
Posted by: Soona at May 12, 2015 04:52 PM (/HX7u)
330
327 That's always going to be manufactured here. $2 socks will never be manufactured here again, and that's a good thing.
Posted by: HUCK / AKIN 2016 at May 12, 2015 04:51 PM (0LHZx)
Why is that a good thing? If I can employ people who want to work for me, and all things being equal, pay them a wage that they want to work for and that I can afford while still making a profit, why is that bad?
Posted by: HUCK / AKIN 2016 at May 12, 2015 04:51 PM (0LHZx)
Why is that a good thing? If I can employ people who want to work for me, and all things being equal, pay them a wage that they want to work for and that I can afford while still making a profit, why is that bad?
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at May 12, 2015 04:52 PM (St6BJ)
331
>How'd we get here?
Well, we were having a small correction when the new president decided to push a huge overhaul of one of the largest sectors of the economy. This overhaul was set to take place in the future, so no one could predict how much it would cost. So people who needed to hire new employees were loathe to do so because it was difficult to predict what it would cost except for 'more'. That's part of it.
Well, we were having a small correction when the new president decided to push a huge overhaul of one of the largest sectors of the economy. This overhaul was set to take place in the future, so no one could predict how much it would cost. So people who needed to hire new employees were loathe to do so because it was difficult to predict what it would cost except for 'more'. That's part of it.
Posted by: Lea at May 12, 2015 04:52 PM (lIU4e)
332
Sounds great in theory, but we're losing 10,000 jobs paying $12/hr making socks and replacing them with 6,000 jobs making $8.50 serving coffee.
But, paying 5 dollars for the socks made here instead of 2 dollars for the socks made over seas. That's a 3 dollar loss in purchasing power I could of used to buy something else.
But, paying 5 dollars for the socks made here instead of 2 dollars for the socks made over seas. That's a 3 dollar loss in purchasing power I could of used to buy something else.
Posted by: wrg500 at May 12, 2015 04:52 PM (sgrzZ)
333
I don't know how to type this and not trigger every sarcasm filter known to man, other than to just do it.
Thank you, Elizabeth Warren.
Thank you, Elizabeth Warren.
Posted by: red speck at May 12, 2015 04:53 PM (9/Ug/)
334
It's a truly sad day when so-called conservatives are fist bumping Elizabeth Warren and whining about one of the most basic tenets of capitalism, trade.
Truly pathetic and sad.
Truly pathetic and sad.
Posted by: HUCK / AKIN 2016 at May 12, 2015 04:53 PM (0LHZx)
335
Poor widdle Lizzie, that mean old obama hurt Her feelings...
Posted by: hello it's Me Donna... again at May 12, 2015 04:53 PM (Bn6aD)
336
That's certainly contributed a lot to the slowness of the recovery, Lea. Agreed.
Posted by: Moderate Salami at May 12, 2015 04:53 PM (/Ho8c)
337
I'll bet the protectionists think they are small government conservatives. just like on everything else, they are statists that prefer a different flavor of big government than the progs.
Posted by: other stuff Jesus said at May 12, 2015 04:53 PM (n5fTN)
338
I visited Russia in mid '92. Female scientists and doctors who made a few measly rubles by day subsidized their income by earning a few hundred every night as prostitukas.
NB - this is NOT a suggestion for you, merely a side note.
-----------------------
JJ, all Russian and FSU prostitutes tell their western Johns they are doctors. I think they think we associate doctors as clean and deserving of clean fuck and will pay more. Screw em dirty and broker a fair price cuz free trade.
NB - this is NOT a suggestion for you, merely a side note.
-----------------------
JJ, all Russian and FSU prostitutes tell their western Johns they are doctors. I think they think we associate doctors as clean and deserving of clean fuck and will pay more. Screw em dirty and broker a fair price cuz free trade.
Posted by: Super Creepy Eric Hoteham at May 12, 2015 04:53 PM (oDCMR)
339
>>Why is that a good thing? If I can employ people who want to work for me, and all things being equal, pay them a wage that they want to work for and that I can afford while still making a profit, why is that bad?
You are welcome to make socks in the US. Just be aware they will cost many, many times what the other socks cost so they better be damn good socks otherwise you will go out of business quite fast....
You are welcome to make socks in the US. Just be aware they will cost many, many times what the other socks cost so they better be damn good socks otherwise you will go out of business quite fast....
Posted by: Lea at May 12, 2015 04:53 PM (lIU4e)
340
A healthy economy will absorb these things. The problem is that we currently are in a recession/depression, not free trade.
Posted by: Lea at May 12, 2015 04:45 PM (lIU4e)
In order to have a healthy economy, you need the structure to be right.
Adopt the Fair Tax Plan where U.S. corporations pay no taxes. No income taxes for individuals.
That makes the U.S. the world's tax haven, bringing trillions in capital that needs to be put to work. U.S. based manufacturing, paying no taxes, would have a big advantage over foreign competitors who would have to pay their home taxes and the U.S. tax on retail sales.
A thriving economy awaits. You just need the right rules.
A healthy economy will absorb these things. The problem is that we currently are in a recession/depression, not free trade.
Posted by: Lea at May 12, 2015 04:45 PM (lIU4e)
In order to have a healthy economy, you need the structure to be right.
Adopt the Fair Tax Plan where U.S. corporations pay no taxes. No income taxes for individuals.
That makes the U.S. the world's tax haven, bringing trillions in capital that needs to be put to work. U.S. based manufacturing, paying no taxes, would have a big advantage over foreign competitors who would have to pay their home taxes and the U.S. tax on retail sales.
A thriving economy awaits. You just need the right rules.
Posted by: jwest at May 12, 2015 04:53 PM (9ZZd+)
341
Posted by: HUCK / AKIN 2016 at May 12, 2015 04:51 PM (0LHZx)
And if there is a market for a pair of socks that I manufacture and sell and again make a profit, why is this bad? Who the hell are you to determine what is good or bad? You must love central planning.
Posted by: HUCK / AKIN 2016 at May 12, 2015 04:51 PM (0LHZx)
And if there is a market for a pair of socks that I manufacture and sell and again make a profit, why is this bad? Who the hell are you to determine what is good or bad? You must love central planning.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at May 12, 2015 04:54 PM (St6BJ)
342
Of course, if I do find gainful employment, I won't be here trading bon mots with the beautiful people all day....
*shiftyeyes*
*shiftyeyes*
Posted by: Grump928(c) ponders the cyborg life at May 12, 2015 04:55 PM (evdj2)
343
331 >How'd we get here?
Well, we were having a small correction when the new president decided to push a huge overhaul of one of the largest sectors of the economy. This overhaul was set to take place in the future, so no one could predict how much it would cost. So people who needed to hire new employees were loathe to do so because it was difficult to predict what it would cost except for 'more'. That's part of it.
-------------------------
This!!!!!
Well, we were having a small correction when the new president decided to push a huge overhaul of one of the largest sectors of the economy. This overhaul was set to take place in the future, so no one could predict how much it would cost. So people who needed to hire new employees were loathe to do so because it was difficult to predict what it would cost except for 'more'. That's part of it.
-------------------------
This!!!!!
Posted by: Super Creepy Eric Hoteham at May 12, 2015 04:55 PM (oDCMR)
344
219
How on earth can decent people promote that? And yet, they do.
Posted by: Lea at May 12, 2015 04:29 PM (lIU4e)
Then they're not decent people.
How on earth can decent people promote that? And yet, they do.
Posted by: Lea at May 12, 2015 04:29 PM (lIU4e)
Then they're not decent people.
Posted by: rickl at May 12, 2015 04:55 PM (zoehZ)
345
338 Posted by: Super Creepy Eric Hoteham at May 12, 2015 04:53 PM (oDCMR)
My Russian-born and raised biz partner says that that is true. They really are neurosurgeons by day and hookers by night. Back then anyway.
My Russian-born and raised biz partner says that that is true. They really are neurosurgeons by day and hookers by night. Back then anyway.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at May 12, 2015 04:55 PM (St6BJ)
346
But, paying 5 dollars for the socks made here instead of 2 dollars for the socks made over seas. That's a 3 dollar loss in purchasing power I could of used to buy something else.
Posted by: wrg500 at May 12, 2015 04:52 PM (sgrzZ)
____________
Exactly. You have an extra $3 to spend. So you buy a $3 coffee which employs someone, who then takes his wages and buys something which employs someone else, and so on.
Now multiply this $3 savings by 500 million socks purchased every year in the country.
And then apply it to shoes, shirts, TVs, pens, pencils and the thousands of other cheap things everyone buys every year. It adds up to TRILLIONS of dollars that American consumers have to spend on things they wouldn't have if we had no trade.
Posted by: wrg500 at May 12, 2015 04:52 PM (sgrzZ)
____________
Exactly. You have an extra $3 to spend. So you buy a $3 coffee which employs someone, who then takes his wages and buys something which employs someone else, and so on.
Now multiply this $3 savings by 500 million socks purchased every year in the country.
And then apply it to shoes, shirts, TVs, pens, pencils and the thousands of other cheap things everyone buys every year. It adds up to TRILLIONS of dollars that American consumers have to spend on things they wouldn't have if we had no trade.
Posted by: HUCK / AKIN 2016 at May 12, 2015 04:55 PM (0LHZx)
347
I whiff a Paulian.
Posted by: Grump928(c) ponders the cyborg life at May 12, 2015 04:56 PM (evdj2)
348
339 You are welcome to make socks in the US. Just be aware they will cost many, many times what the other socks cost so they better be damn good socks otherwise you will go out of business quite fast....
Posted by: Lea at May 12, 2015 04:53 PM (lIU4e)
You miss the point. I was asking why it was a bad thing that we no longer make $2.00 socks in the US, not that it was possible or not.
If we were less regulated and taxed, guess what; woolen mills would be springing up again.
Posted by: Lea at May 12, 2015 04:53 PM (lIU4e)
You miss the point. I was asking why it was a bad thing that we no longer make $2.00 socks in the US, not that it was possible or not.
If we were less regulated and taxed, guess what; woolen mills would be springing up again.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at May 12, 2015 04:56 PM (St6BJ)
349
And if there is a market for a pair of socks that I manufacture and sell and again make a profit, why is this bad? Who the hell are you to determine what is good or bad? You must love central planning.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at May 12, 2015 04:54 PM (St6BJ)
_________________
To manufacture in America, you'd have to sell your socks for $15 a pair to stay in business. No sane human will pay $15 when they can buy an Indian or Chinese made pair of socks for $2.
Has nothing to do with central planning and everything to do with Econ 101.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at May 12, 2015 04:54 PM (St6BJ)
_________________
To manufacture in America, you'd have to sell your socks for $15 a pair to stay in business. No sane human will pay $15 when they can buy an Indian or Chinese made pair of socks for $2.
Has nothing to do with central planning and everything to do with Econ 101.
Posted by: HUCK / AKIN 2016 at May 12, 2015 04:57 PM (0LHZx)
350
I would rather make the $100k or more machines to manufacture the socks overseas than make the socks here. Making the machines is what we do best. Let some third world country make the socks. The machines require a much higher skilled workforce.
Posted by: wrg500 at May 12, 2015 04:57 PM (sgrzZ)
351
For some reason I'm betting there are actually factories in Germany that do make socks. Just based on the fact that moo moo is spewing his usual idiocy and declaring there aren't with absolutely no knowledge of it.
Posted by: Buzzion at May 12, 2015 04:57 PM (z/Ubi)
352
Posted by: HUCK / AKIN 2016 at May 12, 2015 04:55 PM (0LHZx)
hi moo moo!
No one is advocating having "no trade".
But "free trade" does not require treaties and secret agreements and fast track votes. It just requires, you know, free trade. No government intervention required.
Adam Smiths invisible pimp hand and all that
hi moo moo!
No one is advocating having "no trade".
But "free trade" does not require treaties and secret agreements and fast track votes. It just requires, you know, free trade. No government intervention required.
Adam Smiths invisible pimp hand and all that
Posted by: mynewhandle at May 12, 2015 04:57 PM (AkOaV)
353
Posted by: HUCK / AKIN 2016 at May 12, 2015 04:51 PM (0LHZx)
You are wrong Moo Moo. It starts with the high-end stuff, then they capture the middle market stuff. Pretty soon everyone realizes the $2 socks are cheap shoddy crap that does not last; and they buy better socks. Made in the US.
Just like no one buys Black and White TVs anymore, even though they were pretty cheap when the last ones were sold.
You are wrong Moo Moo. It starts with the high-end stuff, then they capture the middle market stuff. Pretty soon everyone realizes the $2 socks are cheap shoddy crap that does not last; and they buy better socks. Made in the US.
Just like no one buys Black and White TVs anymore, even though they were pretty cheap when the last ones were sold.
Posted by: rd at May 12, 2015 04:57 PM (r2TIL)
Posted by: Clinton Family Motto at May 12, 2015 04:57 PM (RJMhd)
355
349 To manufacture in America, you'd have to sell your socks for $15 a pair to stay in business. No sane human will pay $15 when they can buy an Indian or Chinese made pair of socks for $2.
Has nothing to do with central planning and everything to do with Econ 101.
Posted by: HUCK / AKIN 2016 at May 12, 2015 04:57 PM (0LHZx)
You are - once again as is your wont - evading my question. You stated that it was a good thing that the US no longer makes $2.00 socks.
WHY?
Has nothing to do with central planning and everything to do with Econ 101.
Posted by: HUCK / AKIN 2016 at May 12, 2015 04:57 PM (0LHZx)
You are - once again as is your wont - evading my question. You stated that it was a good thing that the US no longer makes $2.00 socks.
WHY?
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at May 12, 2015 04:58 PM (St6BJ)
356
Damn it autocorrect ...
Posted by: Clinton Family Motto at May 12, 2015 04:58 PM (RJMhd)
357
Just be aware they will cost many, many times what the other socks cost so they better be damn good socks otherwise you will go out of business quite fast....
The cost depends less on the wages than the productivity of the wage earner. Now perhaps sock making is not an area that is amiable to productivity through capital investment, but many other areas are.
The cost depends less on the wages than the productivity of the wage earner. Now perhaps sock making is not an area that is amiable to productivity through capital investment, but many other areas are.
Posted by: Grump928(c) ponders the cyborg life at May 12, 2015 04:58 PM (evdj2)
358
Posted by: Clinton Family Motto at May 12, 2015 04:57 PM (RJMhd)
that was the "i worked hard to be a senator, please address as Senator, not 'ma'am'" business, right?
that was the "i worked hard to be a senator, please address as Senator, not 'ma'am'" business, right?
Posted by: mynewhandle at May 12, 2015 04:58 PM (AkOaV)
359
341
Posted by: HUCK / AKIN 2016 at May 12, 2015 04:51 PM (0LHZx)
And if there is a market for a pair of socks that I manufacture and sell and again make a profit, why is this bad? Who the hell are you to determine what is good or bad? You must love central planning.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at May 12, 2015 04:54 PM (St6BJ)
He does. He loves central planning big government tax increases and screwing over military personnel.
Posted by: HUCK / AKIN 2016 at May 12, 2015 04:51 PM (0LHZx)
And if there is a market for a pair of socks that I manufacture and sell and again make a profit, why is this bad? Who the hell are you to determine what is good or bad? You must love central planning.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at May 12, 2015 04:54 PM (St6BJ)
He does. He loves central planning big government tax increases and screwing over military personnel.
Posted by: Buzzion at May 12, 2015 04:59 PM (z/Ubi)
360
But "free trade" does not require treaties and secret agreements and fast track votes. It just requires, you know, free trade. No government intervention required.
Adam Smiths invisible pimp hand and all that
Posted by: mynewhandle at May 12, 2015 04:57 PM (AkOaV)
______
I'm not disagreeing. I don't like the secrecy either. But the protectionists here (and sadly it's the majority) oppose trade in general, not just this particular deal.
Adam Smiths invisible pimp hand and all that
Posted by: mynewhandle at May 12, 2015 04:57 PM (AkOaV)
______
I'm not disagreeing. I don't like the secrecy either. But the protectionists here (and sadly it's the majority) oppose trade in general, not just this particular deal.
Posted by: HUCK / AKIN 2016 at May 12, 2015 04:59 PM (0LHZx)
361
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at May 12, 2015 04:58 PM (St6BJ)
Can we back up for a second?
Where can I get socks for $2?
I feel like I pay a lot more than that when I buy socks. Like $15 for 3 pairs.
Can we back up for a second?
Where can I get socks for $2?
I feel like I pay a lot more than that when I buy socks. Like $15 for 3 pairs.
Posted by: mynewhandle at May 12, 2015 04:59 PM (AkOaV)
362
Has nothing to do with central planning and everything to do with Econ 101.
Both Micro and Macro
Both Micro and Macro
Posted by: wrg500 at May 12, 2015 04:59 PM (sgrzZ)
363
I see a IRS audit in Fauxcahontas future.
Posted by: Buffalobob at May 12, 2015 05:00 PM (/s7gn)
364
>>You miss the point. I was asking why it was a bad thing that we no longer make $2.00 socks in the US, not that it was possible or not.
If we were less regulated and taxed, guess what; woolen mills would be springing up again.
***
That would be lovely, but I still don't think you'd get them down as cheap as the others. That ship has sailed.
New thread btw.
If we were less regulated and taxed, guess what; woolen mills would be springing up again.
***
That would be lovely, but I still don't think you'd get them down as cheap as the others. That ship has sailed.
New thread btw.
Posted by: Lea at May 12, 2015 05:00 PM (lIU4e)
365
And the $2.00 socks I get that are made in China or Bangladesh have holes in the heel and toe within weeks.
I'd rather pay the $15.00 ONCE for a good pair that will last at least a couple of years than buy the bargain $2.00 pair 8 times.
And the $2.00 socks I get that are made in China or Bangladesh have holes in the heel and toe within weeks.
I'd rather pay the $15.00 ONCE for a good pair that will last at least a couple of years than buy the bargain $2.00 pair 8 times.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at May 12, 2015 05:00 PM (St6BJ)
366
No government intervention required.
Posted by: mynewhandle at May 12, 2015 04:57 PM (AkOaV)
--------------------------------------
The Chinese would like to have a word with you.
Posted by: mynewhandle at May 12, 2015 04:57 PM (AkOaV)
--------------------------------------
The Chinese would like to have a word with you.
Posted by: Soona at May 12, 2015 05:00 PM (/HX7u)
367
That would be lovely, but I still don't think you'd get them down as cheap as the others. That ship has sailed.
New thread btw.
Posted by: Lea at May 12, 2015 05:00 PM (lIU4e)
You miss the point. Again. And thanks.
New thread btw.
Posted by: Lea at May 12, 2015 05:00 PM (lIU4e)
You miss the point. Again. And thanks.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at May 12, 2015 05:01 PM (St6BJ)
368
You are - once again as is your wont - evading my question. You stated that it was a good thing that the US no longer makes $2.00 socks.
WHY?
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at May 12, 2015 04:58 PM (St6BJ)
_________
I've answered your question 10 times. Poor countries make cheap items. $2 is a cheap item. Therefore it is good that we don't make it. The day we start making $2 items is the day we are a poor country.
Do you think India wants to make $2 socks forever? Fuck no. They'd love nothing more than to be rich enough to not have to make $2 socks.
Why do you think it is that US, Canada, Germany, Japan and Switzerland all import 100% of their socks? Think about it for a second.
WHY?
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at May 12, 2015 04:58 PM (St6BJ)
_________
I've answered your question 10 times. Poor countries make cheap items. $2 is a cheap item. Therefore it is good that we don't make it. The day we start making $2 items is the day we are a poor country.
Do you think India wants to make $2 socks forever? Fuck no. They'd love nothing more than to be rich enough to not have to make $2 socks.
Why do you think it is that US, Canada, Germany, Japan and Switzerland all import 100% of their socks? Think about it for a second.
Posted by: HUCK / AKIN 2016 at May 12, 2015 05:01 PM (0LHZx)
369
...and the reason we don't make cheap socks in the US is because the Department of Socks in the Bureau of Garments adds $10 worth of compliance costs to every pair of socks made, while the ChiComs just make their slave laborers make the socks and they make their own laws, since they (and their cronies) own all major exporting businesses in China.
Posted by: mynewhandle at May 12, 2015 05:01 PM (AkOaV)
370
But, paying 5 dollars for the socks made here
instead of 2 dollars for the socks made over seas. That's a 3 dollar
loss in purchasing power I could of used to buy something else.
Posted by: wrg500
So instead you spend $3 more in food stamps benefits, or whatever.
Actually, I don't disagree with the underlying concept. It just seems to me that there are other potential consequences when pushing the models to extremes.
In any event, my biggest gripe RE this trade deal is the secrecy. That can't possibly be a good thing.
instead of 2 dollars for the socks made over seas. That's a 3 dollar
loss in purchasing power I could of used to buy something else.
Posted by: wrg500
So instead you spend $3 more in food stamps benefits, or whatever.
Actually, I don't disagree with the underlying concept. It just seems to me that there are other potential consequences when pushing the models to extremes.
In any event, my biggest gripe RE this trade deal is the secrecy. That can't possibly be a good thing.
Posted by: Moderate Salami at May 12, 2015 05:01 PM (/Ho8c)
371
>>You are - once again as is your wont - evading my question. You stated that it was a good thing that the US no longer makes $2.00 socks.
WHY?
I think he means that it is more efficient? Similar to the way it might be more efficient for a rich man to spend money to have someone do his lawn while he does things that make him even more money?
WHY?
I think he means that it is more efficient? Similar to the way it might be more efficient for a rich man to spend money to have someone do his lawn while he does things that make him even more money?
Posted by: Lea at May 12, 2015 05:02 PM (lIU4e)
372
WHY?
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at May 12, 2015 04:58 PM (St6BJ)
Because we make the 200K dollar machine that makes the sock. Would you rather make 3 per profit on a 2 dollar sock or a 200k machine?
WHY?
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at May 12, 2015 04:58 PM (St6BJ)
Because we make the 200K dollar machine that makes the sock. Would you rather make 3 per profit on a 2 dollar sock or a 200k machine?
Posted by: wrg500 at May 12, 2015 05:02 PM (sgrzZ)
373
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at May 12, 2015 04:56 PM (St6BJ)
JJ has it right, the cost of labor is a lesser cost compared to regulation and taxes here in the US for highly automated mass production products.
Reduce and Control Regulation and Taxes, watch the jobs come running back.
JJ has it right, the cost of labor is a lesser cost compared to regulation and taxes here in the US for highly automated mass production products.
Reduce and Control Regulation and Taxes, watch the jobs come running back.
Posted by: rd at May 12, 2015 05:02 PM (r2TIL)
374
Btw, Fort Payne Alabama, the "Sock Capital of the World" was pretty hard hit by the chinese imports when they first arrived. The industry has battle back a good bit since then.
Posted by: Grump928(c) ponders the cyborg life at May 12, 2015 05:02 PM (evdj2)
375
Hey look moo moo has lied again.
Posted by: Buzzion at May 12, 2015 05:03 PM (z/Ubi)
376
Mynewhandle
Correct.
Military parlance always does the M'am ,sir -"yes,sir!" thing.
It takes the sick mind of a liberal to twist that into a sign of disrespect.
Correct.
Military parlance always does the M'am ,sir -"yes,sir!" thing.
It takes the sick mind of a liberal to twist that into a sign of disrespect.
Posted by: Clinton Family Motto at May 12, 2015 05:03 PM (RJMhd)
377
In any event, my biggest gripe RE this trade deal is the secrecy. That can't possibly be a good thing.
Posted by: Moderate Salami at May 12, 2015 05:01 PM (/Ho8c)
That's my gripe also.
Posted by: Moderate Salami at May 12, 2015 05:01 PM (/Ho8c)
That's my gripe also.
Posted by: wrg500 at May 12, 2015 05:03 PM (sgrzZ)
378
In any event, my biggest gripe RE this trade deal is the secrecy. That can't possibly be a good thing.
Posted by: Moderate Salami at May 12, 2015 05:01 PM (/Ho8c)
That's my gripe also.
Posted by: wrg500 at May 12, 2015 05:03 PM (sgrzZ)
Agreed.
Posted by: Moderate Salami at May 12, 2015 05:01 PM (/Ho8c)
That's my gripe also.
Posted by: wrg500 at May 12, 2015 05:03 PM (sgrzZ)
Agreed.
Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - TrueCon at May 12, 2015 05:04 PM (kff5f)
379
"has been one of the most bizarre and ill-advised performances of his presidency." Dude - you have NOT been paying attention, have you? This is how he ALWAYS plays it.
Remember when Paul Ryan and a few other Republican leaders were specifically invited by Obama to attend one of his speeches?Ryan was given a place in the front row. Ryan said that he and others were hopeful that Obama was signaling a shift and a willingness to work with them. Instead Obama gratuitouslyinsulted Ryan and the other Republicans, dismissing Ryan's ideasas unserious and un-American.
"has been one of the most bizarre and ill-advised performances of his presidency." Dude - you have NOT been paying attention, have you? This is how he ALWAYS plays it.
Remember when Paul Ryan and a few other Republican leaders were specifically invited by Obama to attend one of his speeches?Ryan was given a place in the front row. Ryan said that he and others were hopeful that Obama was signaling a shift and a willingness to work with them. Instead Obama gratuitouslyinsulted Ryan and the other Republicans, dismissing Ryan's ideasas unserious and un-American.
Posted by: PT Barnum at May 12, 2015 05:04 PM (/EkKm)
380
why do I need to pay the government to keep your competitors out JJ? so you can charge me more? fuck you. I don't give a fuck if you can't make a go of it on your own.
Posted by: other stuff Jesus said at May 12, 2015 05:04 PM (n5fTN)
381
Me smokem many peace pipe with White Dove for that.
Republicans only think of wampum.
Obama tongue have many forks.
Republicans only think of wampum.
Obama tongue have many forks.
Posted by: Bobby Ahr at May 12, 2015 05:05 PM (zmZ2x)
382
Posted by: HUCK / AKIN 2016 at May 12, 2015 04:59 PM (0LHZx)
Le Sigh.
I don't think people here are protectionists.
I think they are assuming (since its a secret deal pushed by Obama and the Turtle, two untrustworthy politicians) that this deal will end up not being about "free trade" even though they put it in the sub-title of the treaties name.
Just a guess.
Le Sigh.
I don't think people here are protectionists.
I think they are assuming (since its a secret deal pushed by Obama and the Turtle, two untrustworthy politicians) that this deal will end up not being about "free trade" even though they put it in the sub-title of the treaties name.
Just a guess.
Posted by: mynewhandle at May 12, 2015 05:05 PM (AkOaV)
383
http://www.lindner-socks.com/eng/index.htm
Posted by: Buzzion at May 12, 2015 05:05 PM (z/Ubi)
384
>>I'd rather pay the $15.00 ONCE for a good pair that will last at least a couple of years than buy the bargain $2.00 pair 8 times.
If this is your point, why do you think I missed yours?
When talking of your hypothetical sock company, I specifically stated that you could make more expensive socks. Maybe I didn't say that they would be better, but that was definitely what I was imaging. The market for luxury goods is different.
I buy balega running socks because I think they are better than the cheap ones. Products can be sold on price or quality or some combination thereof.
If this is your point, why do you think I missed yours?
When talking of your hypothetical sock company, I specifically stated that you could make more expensive socks. Maybe I didn't say that they would be better, but that was definitely what I was imaging. The market for luxury goods is different.
I buy balega running socks because I think they are better than the cheap ones. Products can be sold on price or quality or some combination thereof.
Posted by: Lea at May 12, 2015 05:05 PM (lIU4e)
385
How much did a TV cost in 1980 relative to the
average monthly salary vs today? It's a hell of a lot cheaper today. And
in large part that's because TVs are made in cheap countries instead of
here.
Posted by: HUCK / AKIN 2016
That's technology genius, a calculator also used to cost thousands of dollars.
average monthly salary vs today? It's a hell of a lot cheaper today. And
in large part that's because TVs are made in cheap countries instead of
here.
Posted by: HUCK / AKIN 2016
That's technology genius, a calculator also used to cost thousands of dollars.
Posted by: McAdams at May 12, 2015 05:05 PM (+nA84)
386
In any event, my biggest gripe RE this trade deal is the secrecy. That can't possibly be a good thing.
Posted by: Moderate Salami at May 12, 2015 05:01 PM (/Ho8c)
You won't find the secret stuff until we pass it
Posted by: Moderate Salami at May 12, 2015 05:01 PM (/Ho8c)
You won't find the secret stuff until we pass it
Posted by: Nancy Pelosi at May 12, 2015 05:05 PM (GrXXa)
387
Not enough opportunities for graft. If those democrats were getting their fair share of the vigorish they'd be voting with Obama. This is just a negotiating tactic and once Obama spreads enough wealth around for everyone to get a beak full, this trade bill will pass.
Posted by: Barlow Dondabiter at May 12, 2015 05:06 PM (TPVXf)
388
Poor countries make cheap items. $2 is a cheap item. Therefore it is good that we don't make it. The day we start making $2 items is the day we are a poor country.
Posted by: HUCK / AKIN 2016 at May 12, 2015 05:01 PM (0LHZx)
Ah, so we're going with the "wet sidewalk causes rain" theory, eh?
Posted by: HUCK / AKIN 2016 at May 12, 2015 05:01 PM (0LHZx)
Ah, so we're going with the "wet sidewalk causes rain" theory, eh?
Posted by: mynewhandle at May 12, 2015 05:06 PM (AkOaV)
389
can you imagine the shitmobiles GM would be pushing if the japs and krauts couldn't sell cars here?
Posted by: other stuff Jesus said at May 12, 2015 05:07 PM (n5fTN)
390
Republicans fail to assist glorious first black president pass important trade deal.
Posted by: AP at May 12, 2015 05:08 PM (TV9BR)
391
Posted by: other stuff Jesus said at May 12, 2015 05:07 PM (n5fTN)
Not a stellar example, since my Dodge Dakota was built in Mexico and my Honda Civic was built in Ohio...
Not a stellar example, since my Dodge Dakota was built in Mexico and my Honda Civic was built in Ohio...
Posted by: mynewhandle at May 12, 2015 05:08 PM (AkOaV)
392
If Obama is for something, I'm against it. If Obama is against something, I'm for it.
SO this is a win.
SO this is a win.
Posted by: Jukin, Former Republican at May 12, 2015 05:09 PM (TV9BR)
393
HUCK / AKIN 2016: "That's because it is economic foolishness for rich countries to make low value products like socks."
That's just silly. Manufacturing is manufacturing. Not everything is either a sock or a flying car and you must choose which pole you'll make.
You keep referring to the Socialist-Capitalist models as optimal. These countries that don't make "low value products" mandate high tax rates to subsidize all those who are unemployed because it is beneath them (you might suggest economically costly) to make cheap stuff.
I'm of the more capitalist bent wherein everyone has an opportunity to be employed and to remove mandates of heavy subsidy by central authorities. Manufacturing of ALL goods as well as cultivating raw materials is wholly desirable and the preferential economic model.
That's just silly. Manufacturing is manufacturing. Not everything is either a sock or a flying car and you must choose which pole you'll make.
You keep referring to the Socialist-Capitalist models as optimal. These countries that don't make "low value products" mandate high tax rates to subsidize all those who are unemployed because it is beneath them (you might suggest economically costly) to make cheap stuff.
I'm of the more capitalist bent wherein everyone has an opportunity to be employed and to remove mandates of heavy subsidy by central authorities. Manufacturing of ALL goods as well as cultivating raw materials is wholly desirable and the preferential economic model.
Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at May 12, 2015 05:09 PM (1CroS)
394
"334 It's a truly sad day when so-called conservatives are fist bumping Elizabeth Warren and whining about one of the most basic tenets of capitalism, trade.
Truly pathetic and sad.
Posted by: HUCK / AKIN 2016 at May 12, 2015 04:53 PM (0LHZx)"
Oh good grief. Are you completely blind to the fact that the Republican Party has sold us out?
Truly pathetic and sad.
Posted by: HUCK / AKIN 2016 at May 12, 2015 04:53 PM (0LHZx)"
Oh good grief. Are you completely blind to the fact that the Republican Party has sold us out?
Posted by: Cloyd Freud, Unemployed at May 12, 2015 05:09 PM (8W5zZ)
395
Why do you think it is that US, Canada, Germany, Japan and Switzerland all import 100% of their socks? Think about it for a second.
Posted by: HUCK / AKIN 2016 at May 12, 2015 05:01 PM (0LHZx)
Bzzzzttt! Wrong, try again. There is always a domestic production market. The high end, boutique luxe market still exists. And it can expand if we make reasonable regulations and taxes.
Throw in some automation, and then you drive up production and drive down costs. Emphasize quality and comfort. Soon you capture most of the market. And there will always be a market for cheap crap, whether foreign or domestic made.
Posted by: HUCK / AKIN 2016 at May 12, 2015 05:01 PM (0LHZx)
Bzzzzttt! Wrong, try again. There is always a domestic production market. The high end, boutique luxe market still exists. And it can expand if we make reasonable regulations and taxes.
Throw in some automation, and then you drive up production and drive down costs. Emphasize quality and comfort. Soon you capture most of the market. And there will always be a market for cheap crap, whether foreign or domestic made.
Posted by: rd at May 12, 2015 05:11 PM (r2TIL)
396
Posted by: Cloyd Freud, Unemployed at May 12, 2015 05:09 PM (8W5zZ)
Uhh... Clearly you haven't met.
Cloyd, this is Moo Moo (v2.0, now with 22% more snark), Moo Moo, this is Cloyd.
Uhh... Clearly you haven't met.
Cloyd, this is Moo Moo (v2.0, now with 22% more snark), Moo Moo, this is Cloyd.
Posted by: mynewhandle at May 12, 2015 05:11 PM (AkOaV)
397
The protectionist policies forced the japanese to build here. Look up the Chicken Tax and you'll understand why the US basically dominated the full size truck and SUV market until the Japanese opened up factories in the US
I'm certainly not against all trade, let's kill that straw man, but this concept that zero trade barriers means everyone "wins" is about as dumb as the idea of open borders for workers is good because we all benefit from cheap labor.
I'm certainly not against all trade, let's kill that straw man, but this concept that zero trade barriers means everyone "wins" is about as dumb as the idea of open borders for workers is good because we all benefit from cheap labor.
Posted by: McAdams at May 12, 2015 05:12 PM (+nA84)
398
Moo accidentally dropped more money down the sewer drain, while thrashing an annoying urchin, than your will make this year.
Posted by: Grump928(c) ponders the cyborg life at May 12, 2015 05:13 PM (evdj2)
399
Liberals are such pussies. Conservatives have developed thick skins. I don't even care anymore if someone accuses me of resisting Obama's agenda because racism. It's not even worth trying to explain rationally anymore.
Posted by: Miley's Tongue at May 12, 2015 05:14 PM (+Y3QE)
400
The day we start making $2 items is the day we are a poor country.
Being this stupid should hurt.
Being this stupid should hurt.
Posted by: what's the lowest-cost item the US should produce? at May 12, 2015 05:15 PM (ZtFr+)
401
372 Because we make the 200K dollar machine that makes the sock. Would you rather make 3 per profit on a 2 dollar sock or a 200k machine?
Posted by: wrg500 at May 12, 2015 05:02 PM (sgrzZ)
So, why can't we make the machine AND make the socks too?
Why if I can do it and make a profit at it is it a bad thing to manufacture a $2.00 pair of fucking socks right here in the US of A ?????
Why, why, why? No one has given me a satisfactory answer. And it's better to make the machinery is NOT an answer.
Posted by: wrg500 at May 12, 2015 05:02 PM (sgrzZ)
So, why can't we make the machine AND make the socks too?
Why if I can do it and make a profit at it is it a bad thing to manufacture a $2.00 pair of fucking socks right here in the US of A ?????
Why, why, why? No one has given me a satisfactory answer. And it's better to make the machinery is NOT an answer.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at May 12, 2015 05:15 PM (St6BJ)
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at May 12, 2015 05:16 PM (St6BJ)
403
"HUCK / AKIN 2016: "That's because it is economic foolishness for rich countries to make low value products like socks."
"
That's not a smart take. Because when you make socks, there is a company that makes niche sock making machines and those are really good jobs. In fact those smart sock making machines might then also make airbags, parachutes, and who knows what else. Sending the sock factory overseas sends the support structure of suppliers overseas too.
If you had ever been in manufacturing you would know that.
"
That's not a smart take. Because when you make socks, there is a company that makes niche sock making machines and those are really good jobs. In fact those smart sock making machines might then also make airbags, parachutes, and who knows what else. Sending the sock factory overseas sends the support structure of suppliers overseas too.
If you had ever been in manufacturing you would know that.
Posted by: Jukin, Former Republican at May 12, 2015 05:17 PM (TV9BR)
404
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at May 12, 2015 05:15 PM (St6BJ)
yes, clearly the best answer is "we would love to be able to make both the machine and the socks and the cotton and everything else and keep as much of that wealth in the US economy as possible."
Of course, the counter argument being that more wealth overall is created when you have robust worldwide trade.
yes, clearly the best answer is "we would love to be able to make both the machine and the socks and the cotton and everything else and keep as much of that wealth in the US economy as possible."
Of course, the counter argument being that more wealth overall is created when you have robust worldwide trade.
Posted by: mynewhandle at May 12, 2015 05:19 PM (AkOaV)
405
People should learn to sow the holes in their socks and we would have no problems. And also we need old fashion TV repair shops so they are not all disposable. Ya that's the ticket
Posted by: Nevergiveup at May 12, 2015 05:24 PM (rDqRv)
406
Poor countries make cheap items. $2 is a cheap item. Therefore it is good that we don't make it. The day we start making $2 items is the day we are a poor country.
Posted by: HUCK / AKIN 2016 at May 12, 2015 05:01 PM (0LHZx)
Ah, so we're going with the "wet sidewalk causes rain" theory, eh?
Posted by: mynewhandle at May 12, 2015 05:06 PM (AkOaV)
What about nuts and bolts that cost $2 per pound?
Or the ones that cost $2/dozen?
Or the ones that cost $200 each?
technology is technology, and it takes the same tech to make the above. Ship the cheap production overseas and in 20 years it is ALL OVERSEAS. If for no other reason due to taxes and regs, we never updated the domestic production facilities, while China/Japan/Korea builds state of the art in their country.
Posted by: HUCK / AKIN 2016 at May 12, 2015 05:01 PM (0LHZx)
Ah, so we're going with the "wet sidewalk causes rain" theory, eh?
Posted by: mynewhandle at May 12, 2015 05:06 PM (AkOaV)
What about nuts and bolts that cost $2 per pound?
Or the ones that cost $2/dozen?
Or the ones that cost $200 each?
technology is technology, and it takes the same tech to make the above. Ship the cheap production overseas and in 20 years it is ALL OVERSEAS. If for no other reason due to taxes and regs, we never updated the domestic production facilities, while China/Japan/Korea builds state of the art in their country.
Posted by: rd at May 12, 2015 05:24 PM (r2TIL)
407
Someday we'll all be scavenging and those with Yankee ingenuity will be the winners as usual.
Posted by: Miley's Tongue at May 12, 2015 05:25 PM (+Y3QE)
408
Posted by: Jukin, Former Republican at May 12, 2015 05:17 PM (TV9BR)
How is it economically foolish for any private individual to make something - anything - be it socks or airliners - if he/she/it CAN MAKE A PROFIT?
If I make socks, does that mean that somehow the economy will be deprived of some big ticket item because my cheap socks exist????
This guy thinks like a Marxist.
Posted by: Jukin, Former Republican at May 12, 2015 05:17 PM (TV9BR)
How is it economically foolish for any private individual to make something - anything - be it socks or airliners - if he/she/it CAN MAKE A PROFIT?
If I make socks, does that mean that somehow the economy will be deprived of some big ticket item because my cheap socks exist????
This guy thinks like a Marxist.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at May 12, 2015 05:25 PM (St6BJ)
409
For the morons. Milton on Free Trade. A Conservative Noble prize winner.
http://tinyurl.com/nsj7u6t
http://tinyurl.com/nsj7u6t
Posted by: Nip Sip at May 12, 2015 05:30 PM (0FSuD)
410
I can buy stainless-steel socket head cap screws, made in the USA, for $.21 apiece.
By Moo Moo's logic, the US is a very, very, very poor country, since $2 per item was his threshold for a poor country.
By Moo Moo's logic, the US is a very, very, very poor country, since $2 per item was his threshold for a poor country.
Posted by: never listen to a fucking retard with an MBA at May 12, 2015 05:30 PM (ZtFr+)
411
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at May 12, 2015 05:25 PM (St6BJ)
The argument is valid, but incomplete. It is the economic efficiency argument....that while we can make socks for $5/pair, they can be made more efficiently in Vietnam for $1/pair, so we should get our socks from Vietnam and stick to high margin, technologically advanced products.
But there are hugely complex issues that go hand in hand with this simple argument, so, while it is correct, it doesn't mean much.
The argument is valid, but incomplete. It is the economic efficiency argument....that while we can make socks for $5/pair, they can be made more efficiently in Vietnam for $1/pair, so we should get our socks from Vietnam and stick to high margin, technologically advanced products.
But there are hugely complex issues that go hand in hand with this simple argument, so, while it is correct, it doesn't mean much.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at May 12, 2015 05:34 PM (Zu3d9)
412
Why argue with Mr. Moo Moo when he is always right? Why try to be nice to him when he will just poo poo on you?
Posted by: Luap Nor..if youer fer it, Im agin it. at May 12, 2015 05:36 PM (QLqUE)
413
The ignorance of economics at the HQ is depressing me. Seriously guys, Econ 101. Free trade, as Milton said in you tube I posted above, is the corner stone of capitalism.
If your not a capitalist OK. If you are ignorance of the principles of capitalism, OK. Just don't be coming around telling me you are a conservative.
That is all.
If your not a capitalist OK. If you are ignorance of the principles of capitalism, OK. Just don't be coming around telling me you are a conservative.
That is all.
Posted by: Nip Sip at May 12, 2015 05:38 PM (0FSuD)
414
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at May 12, 2015 05:34 PM (Zu3d9)
I understand the real world component. But if I can do something - something that I am passionate about and can make a profit at - then who is anyone to tell me I should not, or order me not to?
My existence doesn't negate something else. Skinny man and fat man argument by Reagan.
I understand the real world component. But if I can do something - something that I am passionate about and can make a profit at - then who is anyone to tell me I should not, or order me not to?
My existence doesn't negate something else. Skinny man and fat man argument by Reagan.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at May 12, 2015 05:43 PM (St6BJ)
415
NipSip: "Free trade, as Milton said in you tube I posted above, is the corner stone of capitalism."
There is no such thing as "Free Trade." Yes, in a sterile textbook, there's the philosophy of Free Trade and it's an ideal. It, however, doesn't exist. Just like Macroeconomics, there are conceptual rules/laws but then the world intrudes. It is so mind-bogglingly complex that to call what we have as free trade is an insult. We don't have it and shouldn't pretend we do. What we do have is trade-offs. It will always be so because interests will always make it so.
And in this particular case, we can't even see the pact. No Ckufing Way this trade pact was going to be any semblance of "free trade".
There is no such thing as "Free Trade." Yes, in a sterile textbook, there's the philosophy of Free Trade and it's an ideal. It, however, doesn't exist. Just like Macroeconomics, there are conceptual rules/laws but then the world intrudes. It is so mind-bogglingly complex that to call what we have as free trade is an insult. We don't have it and shouldn't pretend we do. What we do have is trade-offs. It will always be so because interests will always make it so.
And in this particular case, we can't even see the pact. No Ckufing Way this trade pact was going to be any semblance of "free trade".
Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at May 12, 2015 05:53 PM (1CroS)
416
http://mobile.walmart.com/ip/10967085/ratings
Posted by: Buzzion at May 12, 2015 05:53 PM (z/Ubi)
Posted by: gracepmc at May 12, 2015 05:54 PM (xvd51)
418
American made socks from Hanes. $1.30 per pair.
Posted by: Buzzion at May 12, 2015 06:03 PM (z/Ubi)
419
To manufacture in America, you'd have to sell your
socks for $15 a pair to stay in business. No sane human will pay $15
when they can buy an Indian or Chinese made pair of socks for $2.
Has nothing to do with central planning and everything to do with Econ 101.
Posted by: HUCK / AKIN 2016 at May 12, 2015 04:57 PM (0LHZx)
Why do people pay $100 for our pants, when they can go to Wal-Mart and buy 20 pair for the same price?
socks for $15 a pair to stay in business. No sane human will pay $15
when they can buy an Indian or Chinese made pair of socks for $2.
Has nothing to do with central planning and everything to do with Econ 101.
Posted by: HUCK / AKIN 2016 at May 12, 2015 04:57 PM (0LHZx)
Why do people pay $100 for our pants, when they can go to Wal-Mart and buy 20 pair for the same price?
Posted by: Lululemon at May 12, 2015 06:09 PM (+IAze)
420
Cronus loved his kids. Yummy. Practically invented digestion. Probably going leave a mark.
Cannibals on sugar highs. You will eat the future, and like it!
Cannibals on sugar highs. You will eat the future, and like it!
Posted by: first and last at May 12, 2015 06:18 PM (FviSe)
421
I got a secret, and you can't see it. Nyah, nyah!
Posted by: Senate trade bill at May 12, 2015 06:26 PM (+jijM)
422
"Liberals, led by famous Cherokee Princess Elizabeth Warren, have
objected that no one has any idea what the terms (so far) of this
evolving trade deal are, because they're classified."
Awesome. Sounds like the effen heath care legislation. So wtf are the Dems bitchin' about.
objected that no one has any idea what the terms (so far) of this
evolving trade deal are, because they're classified."
Awesome. Sounds like the effen heath care legislation. So wtf are the Dems bitchin' about.
Posted by: dissent555 at May 12, 2015 10:11 PM (yR6A1)
423
"Republicans generally support the bill because that's what they do now, they uncritically support anything with the words "trade" or "freedom" in the title."
and when they put the two things together (i.e. "free trade")
it somehow means the exact opposite of what the words mean, that is so weird... it's almost like the GOP Leadership cares less about us than they say, but that couldn't be true, I must reject that or I might have to think.
and when they put the two things together (i.e. "free trade")
it somehow means the exact opposite of what the words mean, that is so weird... it's almost like the GOP Leadership cares less about us than they say, but that couldn't be true, I must reject that or I might have to think.
Posted by: Republican LIV at May 13, 2015 01:26 PM (vA94g)
Processing 0.04, elapsed 0.0544 seconds.
15 queries taking 0.0201 seconds, 432 records returned.
Page size 230 kb.
Powered by Minx 0.8 beta.
MuNuvians
MeeNuvians
Polls! Polls! Polls!
Real Clear Politics
Gallup
Frequently Asked Questions
The (Almost) Complete Paul Anka Integrity Kick
Primary Document: The Audio
Paul Anka Haiku Contest Announcement
Integrity SAT's: Entrance Exam for Paul Anka's Band
AllahPundit's Paul Anka 45's Collection
AnkaPundit: Paul Anka Takes Over the Site for a Weekend (Continues through to Monday's postings)
George Bush Slices Don Rumsfeld Like an F*ckin' Hammer
Paul Anka Haiku Contest Announcement
Integrity SAT's: Entrance Exam for Paul Anka's Band
AllahPundit's Paul Anka 45's Collection
AnkaPundit: Paul Anka Takes Over the Site for a Weekend (Continues through to Monday's postings)
George Bush Slices Don Rumsfeld Like an F*ckin' Hammer
Top Top Tens
Democratic Forays into Erotica
New Shows On Gore's DNC/MTV Network
Nicknames for Potatoes, By People Who Really Hate Potatoes
Star Wars Euphemisms for Self-Abuse
Signs You're at an Iraqi "Wedding Party"
Signs Your Clown Has Gone Bad
Signs That You, Geroge Michael, Should Probably Just Give It Up
Signs of Hip-Hop Influence on John Kerry
NYT Headlines Spinning Bush's Jobs Boom
Things People Are More Likely to Say Than "Did You Hear What Al Franken Said Yesterday?"
Signs that Paul Krugman Has Lost His Frickin' Mind
All-Time Best NBA Players, According to Senator Robert Byrd
Other Bad Things About the Jews, According to the Koran
Signs That David Letterman Just Doesn't Care Anymore
Examples of Bob Kerrey's Insufferable Racial Jackassery
Signs Andy Rooney Is Going Senile
Other Judgments Dick Clarke Made About Condi Rice Based on Her Appearance
Collective Names for Groups of People
John Kerry's Other Vietnam Super-Pets
Cool Things About the XM8 Assault Rifle
Media-Approved Facts About the Democrat Spy
Changes to Make Christianity More "Inclusive"
Secret John Kerry Senatorial Accomplishments
John Edwards Campaign Excuses
John Kerry Pick-Up Lines
Changes Liberal Senator George Michell Will Make at Disney
Torments in Dog-Hell
Greatest Hitjobs
The Ace of Spades HQ Sex-for-Money Skankathon
A D&D Guide to the Democratic Candidates
Margaret Cho: Just Not Funny
More Margaret Cho Abuse
Margaret Cho: Still Not Funny
Iraqi Prisoner Claims He Was Raped... By Woman
Wonkette Announces "Morning Zoo" Format
John Kerry's "Plan" Causes Surrender of Moqtada al-Sadr's Militia
World Muslim Leaders Apologize for Nick Berg's Beheading
Michael Moore Goes on Lunchtime Manhattan Death-Spree
Milestone: Oliver Willis Posts 400th "Fake News Article" Referencing Britney Spears
Liberal Economists Rue a "New Decade of Greed"
Artificial Insouciance: Maureen Dowd's Word Processor Revolts Against Her Numbing Imbecility
Intelligence Officials Eye Blogs for Tips
They Done Found Us Out, Cletus: Intrepid Internet Detective Figures Out Our Master Plan
Shock: Josh Marshall Almost Mentions Sarin Discovery in Iraq
Leather-Clad Biker Freaks Terrorize Australian Town
When Clinton Was President, Torture Was Cool
What Wonkette Means When She Explains What Tina Brown Means
Wonkette's Stand-Up Act
Wankette HQ Gay-Rumors Du Jour
Here's What's Bugging Me: Goose and Slider
My Own Micah Wright Style Confession of Dishonesty
Outraged "Conservatives" React to the FMA
An On-Line Impression of Dennis Miller Having Sex with a Kodiak Bear
The Story the Rightwing Media Refuses to Report!
Our Lunch with David "Glengarry Glen Ross" Mamet
The House of Love: Paul Krugman
A Michael Moore Mystery (TM)
The Dowd-O-Matic!
Liberal Consistency and Other Myths
Kepler's Laws of Liberal Media Bias
John Kerry-- The Splunge! Candidate
"Divisive" Politics & "Attacks on Patriotism" (very long)
The Donkey ("The Raven" parody)
News/Chat