In Major Public Opinion Shift, Support for Gun Rights Tops Support for Gun Control

What the GOP and all conservative groups should be doing is whatever the gun rights movement is doing.

There's also a major shift on whether having a gun in the home makes that home safer or more dangerous.

Posted by: Ace at 11:04 AM

Comments

(Jump to bottom of comments)

1 99 percent of those polled say we need a universal background check!!

Posted by: RWC - Team BOHICA at April 20, 2015 11:05 AM (fWAjv)

2 Vaal calls to us!

Posted by: Akuta at April 20, 2015 11:06 AM (evdj2)

3 Barack Obama is a SCOAMT.

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - TrueCon at April 20, 2015 11:08 AM (kff5f)

4 The fraction of the the GOP that actually opposes the Democrats and what they have done should follow the model the anti-guncontrol folks have followed, but the rest of the GOP should just go away.

Posted by: eman at April 20, 2015 11:08 AM (MQEz6)

5 Burn it down.
Scatter the stones.
Salt the earth where it stood.

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - TrueCon at April 20, 2015 11:08 AM (kff5f)

6 The Gun Rights movement is single issue, and knows that demanding everything to start with lets you negotiate from a position of strength.

Posted by: toby928(C) at April 20, 2015 11:08 AM (evdj2)

7
PEW is notoriously biased to the left. So, if even they cant mung the results, the support must be higher.

Posted by: Bruce J. at April 20, 2015 11:08 AM (iQIUe)

8
Gun owners are typically white males who support the KKK, the killing of defenseless animals, and war.

Posted by: Hillary the Inevitble at April 20, 2015 11:08 AM (P330y)

9 One teacher with a gun can save a lot of kids.

Posted by: eman at April 20, 2015 11:11 AM (MQEz6)

10 Gun rights groups are absolutist and fight for every scrap.

They learned their lesson from the AWB. There is no compromise.

Posted by: Chupacabras at April 20, 2015 11:11 AM (sPO/s)

11 More of this, please.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this sh1t at April 20, 2015 11:11 AM (0HooB)

12 Posted by: toby928(C) at April 20, 2015 11:08 AM (evdj2)

What he just said.

Republicans (even the ones who are actually conservative) always seem to lead with the compromise position. No, you lead with the absolutist position.

Then, when you "compromise" down, you're seen as reasonable.

You find it working in the abortion/pro-life argument as well. Pro-lifers say, "Hey, that's a baby, it's the only one who had no choice here." And that makes people uncomfortable. But when the Pro-life side then compromises (and it is known to be a compromise) down to *only* banning non-necessary abortions after 20 weeks... that's seen as reasonable, and makes the pro-abortionists side seem all the more extreme by comparison.

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - TrueCon at April 20, 2015 11:11 AM (kff5f)

13 Comrades, you have left me, how you say, hanging!

Posted by: Ivan Shishkin at April 20, 2015 11:12 AM (MYPM9)

14
The largest criminal gun owning element in America is the white Bible thumping Christians who believe they can defend their families with dangerous weapons better than the police.

This has been proven untrue on numerous occasions, but the right wing fascists refuse to acknowledge the science is settled and give up their gun ownership.

Posted by: Debbie Wassermanly Schultz at April 20, 2015 11:12 AM (P330y)

15 How many people stayed safe and free last year because of the Second Amendment?

Posted by: eman at April 20, 2015 11:12 AM (MQEz6)

16 And yet and yet, some Dem spokesmouth was all over the Sundays with a self-assured claim that demand for commonsenseguncontrol is rising fast, and just isn't getting press because of...media bias.

Had a bowtie that looked like it was tied by two guys' dicks, and a very punchable face. IOW, Dem spokesmouth.

Posted by: Stringer Davis at April 20, 2015 11:13 AM (xq1UY)

17 Of course, we're also assuming that the GOP has any interest in protecting our rights...

Posted by: Chupacabras at April 20, 2015 11:13 AM (l2max)

18 Funny, the two curves are almost mirror images right up to the point where the lines meet in '09, then suddenly a sort of phase shift appears, and peaks in the one curve appear to lag their counterpart in the other by a year. Did the polling outfit change their methodology?

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at April 20, 2015 11:13 AM (5eKDp)

19 Guns are black
If you are gun control you're racist!!!!1!!

Posted by: Navycopjoe betting on Da Cubbies at April 20, 2015 11:13 AM (3sozU)

20 ***"PEW is notoriously biased to the left. So, if even they cant mung the results, the support must be higher."***

We stand behind our +19 Obama poll in late 2012!

Posted by: PEW PEW! at April 20, 2015 11:14 AM (xSCb6)

21 Headed in the right direction.

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at April 20, 2015 11:14 AM (LA7Cm)

22 @eman

I think the lowball figure is usually 1 million annually and the highball is around 2.2 million.

Figure it's probably closer to the 2 million mark.

Posted by: Chupacabras at April 20, 2015 11:14 AM (l2max)

23 Once they take our guns they will have nothing left to fear and they will fully own us.

Posted by: eman at April 20, 2015 11:15 AM (MQEz6)

24 From what Ive seen of the NRA they re not particularly partisan, but genuinely issue oriented. They dont campaign against a Democrat just because he is a Democrat, unless that Democrat actively works and votes for gun control.

Posted by: Harley Quinn at April 20, 2015 11:15 AM (/uG6B)

25 Morning Morons. I am sure it's been mentioned. 4-20 is not just doper day.

It's that famous vegetarian, Hitler's birthday.

You don know why Hitler gave up gin, right? It made him mean.

Off to Costco

Posted by: Nip Sip at April 20, 2015 11:16 AM (0FSuD)

26 Once they take our guns they will have nothing left to fear and they will fully own us.

Posted by: eman

Even if they take my guns, I'm still dangerous.

Posted by: Dick Cheney's Warcock at April 20, 2015 11:16 AM (MYPM9)

27 Posted by: Stringer Davis at April 20, 2015 11:13 AM (xq1UY)

Common sense gun control:

Mandated Gun Safety courses (led by an NRA or GOA certified instructor) starting in 6th grade. These will cover the 4 rules of gun-safety.

Hey, if they can mandate Sex Ed courses (which have basically turned into: "how to go down on your boyfriend"), WE can mandate Gun Safety courses. Right?

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - TrueCon at April 20, 2015 11:17 AM (kff5f)

28 Common Sense Gun Control: Keep your finger off the trigger until you're ready to shoot.

Posted by: buzzion at April 20, 2015 11:17 AM (zt+N6)

29 "From what Ive seen of the NRA they re not particularly partisan"

They try not to be and do endorse Dems but that can lead to conflicts. They were big fans of Harry Reid. Named a gun range in Nevada after him, etc.

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at April 20, 2015 11:17 AM (LA7Cm)

30 Courtesy Nick Searcy this morning:

http://tinyurl.com/q2wu63b

college students used to be party animals and reckless youth. Now they are cringing infants. Reminds me of the CathyYoung63 tweet from the ONT.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 20, 2015 11:17 AM (39g3+)

31 I'm pro-trigger control
There's a difference

Posted by: Navycopjoe betting on Da Cubbies at April 20, 2015 11:17 AM (3sozU)

32 I'm pretty sure what shifted opinion is electing Obama and yeah let's not do that ever again.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD/Orion Death Star 2016 at April 20, 2015 11:18 AM (mf5HN)

33 I think the difference was the left's overreaction to concealed carry.

Left: "Concealed carry means streets running with blood!"

Reality: Less crime, no bloodbaths.

People notice these things.

Posted by: joncelli at April 20, 2015 11:18 AM (RD7QR)

34 The guns right movement had Obama as their nemesis. The GOP has him as their master.

Posted by: Roy at April 20, 2015 11:18 AM (VndSC)

35 The problem with Republicans is they can't bring themselves to stop telling the ignoble lie - telling their constituents what they will do, and then doing exactly the opposite and then justifying it with horseshit and then repeating the process over and over and over.

Because it works.

Posted by: LoneStarHeeb at April 20, 2015 11:18 AM (BZAd3)

36 Hey, if they can mandate Sex Ed courses (which have basically turned into: "how to go down on your boyfriend")

----

I found Sex Ed soooper helpful.

Posted by: Clay Aiken at April 20, 2015 11:18 AM (MYPM9)

37 I'm pretty sure what shifted opinion is electing Obama and yeah let's not do that ever again.

Agreed, Empress. TFG is the best firearms salesman ever.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this sh1t at April 20, 2015 11:19 AM (0HooB)

38 Now put up a graph with Trust of Government in general... and trust of the POLICE...

and I'll be there is a correlation there.

Posted by: BB Wolf at April 20, 2015 11:19 AM (qh617)

39
From what Ive seen of the NRA they re not particularly partisan, but genuinely issue oriented. They dont campaign against a Democrat just because he is a Democrat, unless that Democrat actively works and votes for gun control.

Posted by: Harley Quinn at April 20, 2015 11:15 AM (/uG6B)

Yes, that's a constant debate within the gun rights movement, and the NRA gets quite a bit of criticism for that stance, sometimes fairly, sometimes unfairly.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at April 20, 2015 11:19 AM (SpnVI)

40 The NRA promotes putting things in women's hands that are hard and shoot things out the end. Hard to beat that.

Posted by: Roy at April 20, 2015 11:19 AM (VndSC)

41 Do not doubt that this kind of poll will only make the lefties push that much harder, and make crazier than usual claims about guns.

Posted by: Seems Legit at April 20, 2015 11:20 AM (A98Xu)

42 Pew is the GOLD STANDARD in polls
Americans believe that the crime rate is increasing when it actually is decreasing.

Posted by: righter at April 20, 2015 11:20 AM (Kj2zW)

43 40 The NRA promotes putting things in women's hands that are hard and shoot things out the end. Hard to beat that.
Posted by: Roy at April 20, 2015 11:19 AM (VndSC)

Not if you have the proper lubricant.

Posted by: Insomniac at April 20, 2015 11:20 AM (2Ojst)

44 Here we have very strong evidence that an absolutist position, based on a fundamental principle will yield net positive results and yet the Usual Suspects will still ooze in here tossing out Purists! and begging for compromise before the negotiations have even begun.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at April 20, 2015 11:21 AM (xSCb6)

45 I think the lowball figure is usually 1 million annually and the highball is around 2.2 million.

Figure it's probably closer to the 2 million mark.

Posted by: Chupacabras
.........
If you are talking about the number of people who successfully defended themselves with a firearm, that is one of those numbers from a whacko website that seems to float around the internet. It is nowhere near that.

If not.. then I have no idea wtf you are talking about.

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at April 20, 2015 11:21 AM (so+oy)

46 Who in their right minds would think that having a gun in their homes would make it less safe? (And I'm not interested in the strawman arguments revolving around leaving loaded guns around for the kids to play with. That happens rarely, to Darwin Award candidates).

Posted by: kraken at April 20, 2015 11:21 AM (5+mPY)

47 I think this study shows that there's room for bipartisan compromise on reasonable gun control measures that would help stop the epidemic of gun violence on our streets.

*hic*

Posted by: John Boehner at April 20, 2015 11:22 AM (8ZskC)

48 The rise of global warming and gay marriage as the primary status issues of the left can't be disregarded. Hollywood does the heavy lifting required to move popular opinion and with Hollywood focusing on other issues the right can actually have space to make its case on gun control.

Posted by: Sam Haysom at April 20, 2015 11:22 AM (Wzvg0)

49 There is no Public Opinion,
Serve and Obey your Bitches

Posted by: Judge Hangtown at April 20, 2015 11:23 AM (/WmRg)

50 46 Who in their right minds would think that having a gun in their homes would make it less safe? (And I'm not interested in the strawman arguments revolving around leaving loaded guns around for the kids to play with. That happens rarely, to Darwin Award candidates).
Posted by: kraken at April 20, 2015 11:21 AM (5+mPY)

They come up with that statistic by including suicide by firearm.

Posted by: Insomniac at April 20, 2015 11:23 AM (2Ojst)

51 In Milwaukee the radio advertising from Sherrif Clarke has been effective in changing additudes. He tells us the police can't be everywhere and do you want to hide under the bed or have a gun and protect your family. Strong stuff. Made the city and county crazy.

Posted by: Bossy barbara at April 20, 2015 11:23 AM (pzgxL)

52 Popular support for the 2nd Amendment is encouraging,
but anyone who thinks popular support will protect our 2nd Amendment rights is simply delusional.

We don't live in that kind of country any more.

Posted by: Cloyd Freud, Unemployed at April 20, 2015 11:24 AM (QRz0C)

53 Additionally, the proof has been in the pudding. It is rare to ever find a conceal carry permit holder using his weapon to commit a crime.

The 77,000 in Nashville last week, whom were allowed to carry concealed as long as they followed their own state rules and the state of Tennessee, demonstrated once again that guns do not kill people, people kill people. That people who carry are decent, mannerly people who do not wish to harm others, but simply protect themselves and loved ones.
As the saying goes, an armed society is a polite society.

I remember when my own state was voting in conceal carry, my coworkers at the time were in hysterics. They predicted shootings weekly at malls and at McDonalds.
That hasn't happened. And so people have moved on to acceptance of carrying and guns in general.

Posted by: Jen the original at April 20, 2015 11:24 AM (PfWwQ)

54 Not if you have the proper lubricant.

Posted by: Insomniac at April 20, 2015 11:20 AM (2Ojst)

There is a lube called 'Gun Oil.'

Posted by: RWC - Team BOHICA at April 20, 2015 11:24 AM (fWAjv)

55 They come up with that statistic by including suicide by firearm.

Three-day waiting period for ropes, belts, pantyhose, and scarves?

Posted by: HR braucht ein Bier at April 20, 2015 11:24 AM (ZKzrr)

56 Says a friend

Posted by: RWC - Team BOHICA at April 20, 2015 11:24 AM (fWAjv)

57 They try not to be and do endorse Dems but that can
lead to conflicts. They were big fans of Harry Reid. Named a gun range
in Nevada after him, etc.

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at April 20, 2015 11:17 AM (LA7Cm)

I would suggest that a single-issue advocacy group has to demonstrate that they are non-partisan by endorsing politicians from whatever party as long as they are strong supporters of the group's cause. Because, if they don't, they will simply be dismissed as a partisan pressure group.

Maybe there is a lesson in this for conservatives. Instead of pinning one's hopes on the Republican party as a whole, perhaps conservatives should start forming a number of single-issue groups, fund them well, and mimic the success of the NRA. The Left works in this mode, and it works for them.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at April 20, 2015 11:25 AM (5eKDp)

58 56 Says a friend
Posted by: RWC - Team BOHICA at April 20, 2015 11:24 AM (fWAjv)

So you got that second-hand?

Posted by: Insomniac at April 20, 2015 11:25 AM (2Ojst)

59 So you got that second-hand?

Posted by: Insomniac at April 20, 2015 11:25 AM (2Ojst)

No, it's legit.

Bottle looks like a shell.

http://tinyurl.com/kozlzjm

(safe)

Posted by: RWC - Team BOHICA at April 20, 2015 11:28 AM (fWAjv)

60 Don't believe a thing that PEW says.

They lie for a living.

Posted by: Jacob's Step Stool at April 20, 2015 11:28 AM (VNgld)

61 Who in their right minds would think that having a gun in their homes
would make it less safe? (And I'm not interested in the strawman
arguments revolving around leaving loaded guns around for the kids to
play with. That happens rarely, to Darwin Award candidates).

Posted by: kraken
........
Kids killing themselves are Darwin Award candidates? WTF? That's a pretty fucked way of looking at things, kraken.

Gun accidents account for over 30,000 deaths per year.

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at April 20, 2015 11:28 AM (so+oy)

62 I remember when my own state was voting in conceal carry, my coworkers at the time were in hysterics. They predicted shootings weekly at malls and at McDonalds.
That hasn't happened. And so people have moved on to acceptance of carrying and guns in general.

Part of why Open Carry is starting to gain acceptance. People are realizing that someone who wants to carry legally is much more likely to be law abiding. And you want law abiding people with guns around when non-law abiding people with guns are around.

Indeed, if I were an Hysteric, I'd prefer Open Carry to Concealed Carry, because then you at least know who is armed, and therefore who to avoid (if you're a hysteric).

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - TrueCon at April 20, 2015 11:28 AM (kff5f)

63 The gun control imbeciles help the cause through their deliberate mis-information and overreaches. Also their brainless lies help too.

Posted by: maddogg at April 20, 2015 11:28 AM (xWW96)

64 "I would suggest that a single-issue advocacy group has to demonstrate that they are non-partisan by endorsing politicians from whatever party as long as they are strong supporters of the group's cause."

Oh, don't disagree. But, if you are more than a one issue voter it can cause conflicts.

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at April 20, 2015 11:28 AM (LA7Cm)

65
The rise of global warming and gay marriage as the primary status issues of the left can't be disregarded. Hollywood does the heavy lifting required to move popular opinion and with Hollywood focusing on other issues the right can actually have space to make its case on gun control.

Posted by: Sam Haysom at April 20, 2015 11:22 AM (Wzvg0)

Good point. There's only so many issues they can push to the forefront.

Slightly OT, but I watched The Imitation Game over the weekend. Blatant Oscar-bait, the plot is:

Gay Asperger's Gay Asperger's Gay Asperger's Gay Asperger's Invents computer Gay Asperger's Gay Asperger's Gay Asperger's Singlehandedly wins WWII Gay Asperger's Gay Asperger's Gay Asperger's

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at April 20, 2015 11:29 AM (SpnVI)

66 " because then you at least know who is armed, and therefore who to avoid (if you're a hysteric)."

This sort of my qualm about open carry. The point of concealed was that no one knew you were carrying.

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at April 20, 2015 11:30 AM (LA7Cm)

67 "Gun accidents account for over 30,000 deaths per year.
Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at April 20, 2015 11:28 AM (so+oy)"

Uh, no.

Posted by: Cloyd Freud, Unemployed at April 20, 2015 11:30 AM (QRz0C)

68 putting things in women's hands that are hard and shoot things out the end.

Meh, lately, small plastic things with no cylinder or hammer. Shooting tiny little things out the end. Short enough for a two-finger grip. They're evolving dammit.

Posted by: Stringer Davis at April 20, 2015 11:31 AM (xq1UY)

69 Says a friend
Posted by: RWC - Team BOHICA at April 20, 2015 11:24 AM

Does that friend know if it smells like Hoppes #9? (No. Hoppes. Puns.) Because that would be all kinds of awesome. Asking for another friend.

Posted by: RedMindBlueState at April 20, 2015 11:32 AM (h4vJk)

70 Kids killing themselves are Darwin Award candidates? WTF? That's a pretty fucked way of looking at things, kraken.

Gun accidents account for over 30,000 deaths per year.

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at April 20, 2015 11:28 AM (so+oy)

Yep. Darwin award candidates, Jerry. Either the kids are too stupid to realize that a gun is not a toy, and that it can make you dead, or the parents are too stupid to realize that their children are too young to understand such things, or too stupid to have trained them. Either way, Natural Selection is at work.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at April 20, 2015 11:32 AM (5eKDp)

71 I don't mind some amount of gun control such as a waiting period (short one) and background check. I'd rather people couldn't run down in a drunken rage and buy a pistol to shoot the guy that has his stereo too loud that night. A day or two before you get your gun isn't unreasonable. And requiring a license to concealed carry or own anything really big and deadly like a Ma Deuce is not a terrible thing either.

But that's as far as it should go. I understand the "don't give an inch" philosophy of the NRA and some people here, to stave off the "take a mile" philosophy of the left, but a little bit of common sense doesn't hurt.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 20, 2015 11:32 AM (39g3+)

72 ***"But, if you are more than a one issue voter it can cause conflicts.

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at April 20, 2015 11:28 AM (LA7Cm)"***

Exactly.
Signed,

"Republican" Women Who Always Vote Democrat For One Mysterious Reason Only

Posted by: Burn the Witch at April 20, 2015 11:32 AM (xSCb6)

73 Indeed, if I were an Hysteric, I'd prefer Open Carry to Concealed Carry, because then you at least know who is armed, and therefore who to avoid (if you're a hysteric).
Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - TrueCon at April 20, 2015 11:28 AM (kff5f)

Now you've made me want to go find that actually Hysteric, in the traditional meaning of the term, article by the woman who was totes convinced that a guy was carrying at her local bookstore and she followed him all around and it was ridiculously obvious that she had no self-awareness that she was coming across as an insane harpy.

IIRC, she never even saw a weapon, just that he had a bulge and much jest was made with so you're following around a guy with a suspicious bulge, are you?

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD/Orion Death Star 2016 at April 20, 2015 11:33 AM (mf5HN)

74 Kids killing themselves are Darwin Award candidates? WTF? That's a pretty fucked way of looking at things, kraken.

Nice way to misread the comment.

The DA candidates are the parents to are too dumb to lock up their guns with children in the house.

And are those "gun accidents" including deliberate suicide by gun?

But, let's say that's what he was saying. Why is that incorrect?

I guarantee you that young children know the difference between real and fake. They know the difference between a real stove and a fake stove. They know the difference between a real knife and a fake knife. It is not difficult to teach them the difference between Dad's real gun and their fake Nerf gun.

A child playing with a gun and accidentally killing themselves or someone else is certainly tragic- that doesn't mean it's not also a failure of basic common sense.

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - TrueCon at April 20, 2015 11:33 AM (kff5f)

75 Don't discount that a lot of people have witnessed "we don't arrest or prosecute group Z until they bring violence into the rich neighborhoods that we are shaking down for more money for cops" in action and the habit has grown beyond just that machine politics ploy in the big D cities. Nothing like seeing that the police won't even try to be there for you to change the thinking on whether individuals should be armed.

Posted by: PaleRider at April 20, 2015 11:33 AM (7w/kf)

76 66 This sort of my qualm about open carry. The point of concealed was that no one knew you were carrying.

Yep, personally I don't want people knowing if I'm carrying or not.

Posted by: wrg500 at April 20, 2015 11:33 AM (kQBSd)

77 "but a little bit of common sense doesn't hurt."

Dude.

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at April 20, 2015 11:33 AM (LA7Cm)

78 Gun accidents account for over 30,000 deaths per year.
Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at April 20, 2015 11:28 AM (so+oy)

----

Bull Shit.

30K.???

Posted by: fixerupper at April 20, 2015 11:34 AM (NaV4z)

79 Chi-Clown Jerry is a lying fool. But you knew that.

Posted by: maddogg at April 20, 2015 11:34 AM (xWW96)

80 >>>>And so people have moved on to acceptance of carrying and guns in general.
Posted by: Jen the original at April 20, 2015 11:24 AM (PfWwQ)

Amen.
Our state was the 2nd to last to get CCW. Thank you Scott Walker!!!
All the typical cries of hysteria have not come to fruition

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at April 20, 2015 11:34 AM (F2IAQ)

81 Yep, personally I don't want people knowing if I'm carrying or not.
Posted by: wrg500 at April 20, 2015 11:33 AM (kQBSd)

----

This . You might as well wear a t-shirt that says "shoot me first".

Posted by: fixerupper at April 20, 2015 11:34 AM (NaV4z)

82 NRA and NARAL....they know how to get shit done. Maybe every single issue group should figure out a way to get those letters in their name.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at April 20, 2015 11:35 AM (0LHZx)

83 I honestly believe had Obama pursued gun control in his first term, Romney would have won the 2012 election.

There really is no other issue that seems to cut across so many different demographics.

Some people think social issues like abortion are why the South left the Democrat Party, I think guns had a lot more to do with it

Posted by: McAdams at April 20, 2015 11:35 AM (D5chc)

84 @AllenG

Or who to target.

Open carry accomplishes the exact opposite goal when talking a defensive firearm.

Posted by: Chupacabras at April 20, 2015 11:36 AM (CGjum)

85
Gun accidents account for over 30,000 deaths per year.

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at April 20, 2015 11:28 AM (so+oy)

Bull. Shit.

Traffic fatalities in the US are pretty consistently around 36k per year. No way in hell that gun ACCIDENT deaths come even close.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at April 20, 2015 11:36 AM (SpnVI)

86 This sort of my qualm about open carry. The point of concealed was that no one knew you were carrying.

Most places say that if you can Concealed Carry you *may* also Openly Carry. Also, a place which denies CC might *not* deny OC.

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - TrueCon at April 20, 2015 11:36 AM (kff5f)

87 Pay attention trolls.

Chi Town Jerry is showing you how it's done.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at April 20, 2015 11:36 AM (xSCb6)

88 Gun accidents account for over 30,000 deaths per year.
Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at April 20, 2015 11:28 AM (so+oy)

Says who? MDA? The Brady Campaign? According to the CDC, there were 505 deaths in 2013 from accidental discharge of firearms, across all ages. By comparison, 30,208 died from falls, and 38,851 from accidental poisoning or exposure to noxious substances.

Here's the link - go to Table 10.

http://tinyurl.com/mfr3gbg

Posted by: Insomniac at April 20, 2015 11:36 AM (2Ojst)

89 We can't overcome events like the mass shootings at the recent NRA convention.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at April 20, 2015 11:37 AM (659DL)

90 Keep fighting the good fight Jerry.

Posted by: WaPo at April 20, 2015 11:37 AM (HstNY)

91 I think the actual statistic is around 850 gun accident deaths per year nationwide.

Posted by: maddogg at April 20, 2015 11:37 AM (xWW96)

92 Gun accidents account for over 30,000 deaths per year.

Car accidents account for over 30,000 a year. The actual stat is that in 2010, deaths of all kinds from guns was just over 30,000. Deaths from accidents was about 600 total.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 20, 2015 11:37 AM (39g3+)

93 Sorry.. that was total gun deaths.. accidental deaths are under 1000..

my mistake

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at April 20, 2015 11:37 AM (so+oy)

94
Bull Shit.

30K.???
Posted by: fixerupper at April 20, 2015 11:34 AM (NaV4z

Thats kind of what I thought when I saw that original post.
Not sure what SWAG method or stat he used for that one.

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at April 20, 2015 11:37 AM (F2IAQ)

95 Hey, if they can mandate Sex Ed courses (which have basically turned into: "how to go down on your boyfriend"), WE can mandate Gun Safety courses.

It's well beyond that -- did you see Vic's link a couple days ago about a school in Iowa where 1,000 kids where instructed in proper oral-anal preparation? Because, I guess, Hep C and AIDS is cured. Funny, I musta missed the news that day.

Posted by: SE Pa Moron at April 20, 2015 11:37 AM (xQX/f)

96 Jerry, demonstrating that he really is where his name claims he's from.

Posted by: buzzion at April 20, 2015 11:37 AM (zt+N6)

97 The gun rights movement also needs to take a page out of the abortion movement. Don't present guns as a good or bad thing, present it as simply a choice. You want a gun? Get one. You don't want a gun, don't get one. But don't take away my **CHOICE** to own a gun. Remember, the abortion movement never (or rarely) talks about actual abortions. It always talks about choice. And it's effective.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at April 20, 2015 11:38 AM (0LHZx)

98 Gun accidents account for over 30,000 deaths per year.

Bull Fucking SHIT.

That's 82 A DAY.

Bull Fucking SHIT.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at April 20, 2015 11:38 AM (659DL)

99 I read the stats wrong.. that was total gun deaths.. crime and suicides are most of that.

I still don't think kids killing themselves is a laughing matter, however.

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at April 20, 2015 11:38 AM (so+oy)

100 "Instead of pinning one's hopes on the Republican party as a whole, perhaps conservatives should start forming a number of single-issue groups, fund them well, and mimic the success of the NRA. The Left works in this mode, and it works for them."

Pro-life groups used to endorse pro-life democrats.

Then Obamacare happened. Fool us once...

Posted by: zombie Bob Ross at April 20, 2015 11:38 AM (MYCIw)

101 Accidental shooting deaths in the US, per the CDC:

2008: 592
2009: 554
2010: 600

Posted by: Cloyd Freud, Unemployed at April 20, 2015 11:38 AM (QRz0C)

102 This sort of my qualm about open carry. The point of concealed was that no one knew you were carrying.

My only drawback to ME openly carrying?
If I can think of it, the bad guy can also. >>Threat Assessment.

If a bad guy is going to rob a place, he checks to see who has a visible gun. THAT is who is a threat to him. Who gets shot first wthout warning?

The threat. That'd be me.

Pass. For me. I'll keep my concealed.

Posted by: rickb223 at April 20, 2015 11:38 AM (NRcvN)

103 /sock

Posted by: Lauren at April 20, 2015 11:38 AM (MYCIw)

104 93 Sorry.. that was total gun deaths.. accidental deaths are under 1000..

my mistake

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at April 20, 2015 11:37 AM (so+oy)

Over 21,000 of those gun deaths in 2013 were suicide.

Posted by: Insomniac at April 20, 2015 11:38 AM (2Ojst)

105 The gun rights movement is winning, why should they change tactics, Moo Moo?

Posted by: Chupacabras at April 20, 2015 11:39 AM (l2max)

106 From the CDC... that bastion of conservative guns rights.

"Federal data from the Centers for Disease Control indicate that between 2007 and 2011, an average of 62 children age 14 and under were accidentally shot and killed each year."

Chit-town Jerry is a lying Mclying liar.

Posted by: fixerupper at April 20, 2015 11:39 AM (NaV4z)

107 WE can mandate Gun Safety courses.

I had a mandatory Gun Safety course growing up. It was called "dad".

Posted by: wrg500 at April 20, 2015 11:39 AM (kQBSd)

108 By comparison, 30,208 died from falls, and 38,851 from accidental poisoning or exposure to noxious substances.

Bans on stairways larger than 7 steps. Background check for bathtubs.

Posted by: HR braucht ein Bier at April 20, 2015 11:39 AM (ZKzrr)

109 Chi-town, bogus statistics as usual...

Posted by: hello, it's Me Donna ....again at April 20, 2015 11:39 AM (Bn6aD)

110 I personally think requiring someone to have a license in order to carry a concealed firearm is a violation of the 2nd Amendment, but pragmatically I guess its a step in the right direction versus no right at all.

The idea though that the 2nd Amendment only extends to gun ownership "under your bed" is pretty ridiculous.

Posted by: McAdams at April 20, 2015 11:39 AM (D5chc)

111 The thing is, I don't think the success of gun rights has been due to a tactic or a special interest group. I think its a societal shift. People feel unsafe and unsure about the future. Most people have a feeling something really bad is coming, or we're in for bad times. There's a lot of violence in the news and awful stories of attacks. So the mood is more toward being armed and protected.

The GOP cannot copy that, nobody can.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 20, 2015 11:39 AM (39g3+)

112 I'm sure some of those deaths counted as accidental were in fact suicides as well.

Posted by: steevy at April 20, 2015 11:40 AM (mGBKM)

113 Sox-Orioles tied at 1 in the third inning.

Posted by: Lincolntf at April 20, 2015 11:40 AM (2cS/G)

114 Hollywood does the heavy lifting required to move popular opinion and
with Hollywood focusing on other issues the right can actually have
space to make its case on gun control.

Also, Hollywood keeps making movies with lots of guns, while claiming to be against them. Rented "John Wick" with Keanu this weekend and I liked it - fairly stylish, like the Matrix, but without the sophomoric philosophy. And he kills a *lot* of Russians - I lost count in the hundred-and-teens.

Posted by: Ian S. at April 20, 2015 11:40 AM (B/VB5)

115 99 I read the stats wrong.. that was total gun deaths.. crime and suicides are most of that.

I still don't think kids killing themselves is a laughing matter, however.
Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at April 20, 2015 11:38 AM (so+oy)

Suicide accounts for roughly two-thirds.

Posted by: Insomniac at April 20, 2015 11:40 AM (2Ojst)

116 98 Gun accidents account for over 30,000 deaths per year.

Bull Fucking SHIT.

That's 82 A DAY.

Bull Fucking SHIT.
Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at April 20, 2015 11:38 AM (659DL

Chicago is headed that way thanks to Jerry and Rahm.

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at April 20, 2015 11:40 AM (F2IAQ)

117 105 The gun rights movement is winning, why should they change tactics, Moo Moo?
Posted by: Chupacabras at April 20, 2015 11:39 AM (l2max)

_____________

I didn't say change tactics. I'm saying in addition to what they're doing, emphasize choice.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at April 20, 2015 11:41 AM (0LHZx)

118 Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 20, 2015 11:32 AM (39g3+) Hide posts from (39g3+)

I completely disagree.

1- I live in TX, where we do allow instant purchase of handguns. We have no epidemic of people "buying a gun to shoot their neighbor for having their stereo too loud." Indeed, the kind of people who would buy a gun for that purpose are the kind of people who don't care about gun laws.

2- Many people don't want to be gun owners until there's a specific reason to do so. Any delay- even just a day or two- could be the difference (literally) between their life and death.

3- If the government has to issue me a permit for something, it is no longer a Right; it is a privilege. However, I have a *Right* to keep and bear arms (which meant military-grade weaponry).

Now, I will accept (for the moment) license requirements as a political necessity- but only as political necessity, and with an eye toward removing them and restoring my Natural Right to its rightful status in the future.

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - TrueCon at April 20, 2015 11:41 AM (kff5f)

119 30K is the total of all annual firearms deaths, of which 19K are suicides.

Posted by: Bandersnatch at April 20, 2015 11:41 AM (JtwS4)

120 Senator Cruz has had a lot to do with more people supporting gun rights. He has brilliantly articulated why the 2nd Amendment matters using facts and history to support his position.

Posted by: Bill at April 20, 2015 11:41 AM (FvdOJ)

121 OK, so now riddle me this, Jerry--

How many of those gun deaths are from guns that people have illegally anyway? The pixie dust of gun free zones and whatever the NYPD, Chicago PD, and LAPD peddle seems to be lacking a certain element, eh?

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at April 20, 2015 11:41 AM (659DL)

122 personally think requiring someone to have a license in order to carry a concealed firearm is a violation of the 2nd Amendment, but pragmatically I guess its a step in the right direction versus no right at all.

The idea though that the 2nd Amendment only extends to gun ownership "under your bed" is pretty ridiculous.
Posted by: McAdams at April 20, 2015 11:39 AM (D5chc)

I agree, but from a tactical standpoint, agreeing to background checks, licensing, educational courses, etc. have worked really well in favor of restoring gun rights.
This is where the GOP misses the mark....they have neither a clear sense of the goal and they have no ability to understand tactics.

Posted by: Jen the original at April 20, 2015 11:41 AM (PfWwQ)

123 There is a lube called 'Gun Oil.'

Which they make by squeezing a whole bunch of guns together like they do for vegetable oil.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this sh1t at April 20, 2015 11:42 AM (0HooB)

124 Waiting periods stopped Lanza. Oh wait no they didn't.

Posted by: WaPo at April 20, 2015 11:42 AM (HstNY)

125
Bans on stairways larger than 7 steps. Background check for bathtubs.
Posted by: HR braucht ein Bier at April 20, 2015 11:39 AM (ZKzrr

Hell just do away with homes, as most fatal accidents happen at home.

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at April 20, 2015 11:42 AM (F2IAQ)

126 I still don't think kids killing themselves is a laughing matter, however.

As opposed to everyone else? What other bold, maverick stance are you going to take?

Opposition to wife beating?
Against using heroin on infants?
Opposed to branding children on the forehead in gradeschool?
Will you take a strong stance against systematic obliteration of an ethnic group in special camps?

Who exactly do you believe you are arguing against?

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 20, 2015 11:42 AM (39g3+)

127 125
Bans on stairways larger than 7 steps. Background check for bathtubs.
Posted by: HR braucht ein Bier at April 20, 2015 11:39 AM (ZKzrr

Hell just do away with homes, as most fatal accidents happen at home.
Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at April 20, 2015 11:42 AM (F2IAQ)

Fatalities by motor vehicle accident: over 35,000. Ban cars!

Posted by: Insomniac at April 20, 2015 11:43 AM (2Ojst)

128 >>>I would suggest that a single-issue advocacy group has to demonstrate that they are non-partisan by endorsing politicians from whatever party as long as they are strong supporters of the group's cause. Because, if they don't, they will simply be dismissed as a partisan pressure group.

Say what????

Posted by: NAACP at April 20, 2015 11:43 AM (PtTYB)

129 @ 99 some of those kids will not be missed ,
they never know where to send a fathers day card anyway

Posted by: Judge Hangtown at April 20, 2015 11:43 AM (/WmRg)

130 How many of those gun deaths are from guns that people have illegally anyway?

Follow-up question, how many of the gun deaths from legally-owned guns were caused by law enforcement (we can break down good shoots and bad shoots if we must, but either way they weren't caused by Joe Q Public, amateur enthusiast...)?

Posted by: HR braucht ein Bier at April 20, 2015 11:44 AM (ZKzrr)

131 I think part of this is also because of Call of Duty, Battlefield, etc. Yeah the teachers try to indoctrinate the kids at school that guns are bad and evil. And then they go home and spend the night blowing away terrorists Nazis and zombies.

Posted by: buzzion at April 20, 2015 11:44 AM (zt+N6)

132 Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at April 20, 2015 11:38 AM (so+oy)

Something like 872 people died in (non boating related) drowning accidents last year -- mostly in swimming pools.

310 or so died in accidental gun deaths ("accidental", since many of those were probably suicides but the responding cops were trying to be nice to the family).

So... ban swimming pools?

Posted by: mynewhandle at April 20, 2015 11:44 AM (AkOaV)

133 Fatalities by motor vehicle accident: over 35,000. Ban cars!
Posted by: Insomniac at April 20, 2015 11:43 AM (2Ojst

Whew, I'm safe. I have a pickup truck.

So is this the thread where cow pie boi clamors for banning of guns and religion?

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at April 20, 2015 11:44 AM (F2IAQ)

134 Ban five-gallon buckets. For the chirren!

Posted by: Cloyd Freud, Unemployed at April 20, 2015 11:44 AM (QRz0C)

135 There is a lube called 'Gun Oil.'

I'll just leave this here.

Silver Bullet Gun Oil. Made with 13% pigfat.

Posted by: rickb223 at April 20, 2015 11:44 AM (NRcvN)

136 For me, as a non-gun owner, choice is why I have donated to the NRA for the last 20 years or so. I don't own a gun, I've ever owned one, I don't particularly like guns. I've shot a gun a few times at a range, but that's about it.

But I want to know that if I ever do need a gun, I will have the **CHOICE** to drive to one of the 100 guns stores within a 10 mile radius and buy one. And I'm sure there are a lot of people like me out there. Yet the NRA never seems to speak to people like myself.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at April 20, 2015 11:44 AM (0LHZx)

137 Posted by: Chupacabras at April 20, 2015 11:36 AM (CGjum)

I approve of Open Carry insofar as I approve of removing all restrictions on carrying a weapon.

I, too, will prefer (in cases where it is practical) to carry concealed instead of open.

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - TrueCon at April 20, 2015 11:45 AM (kff5f)

138 Opposed to branding children on the forehead in gradeschool?

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 20, 2015 11:42 AM (39g3+)

Hey, can we talk about this one? I've been tempted once or twice with the "stupid" branding iron.

Posted by: wrg500 at April 20, 2015 11:45 AM (kQBSd)

139 Hollywood does the heavy lifting required to move popular opinion and with Hollywood focusing on other issues the right can actually have space to make its case on gun control.

Sure, if you include the rest of popular culture (music, TV, internet, etc). That's where the bulk of the voting population gets its mood and worldview from. And right now, Big Popular Culture is focused on making homosexuals seem heroic and portraying maturity, responsibility, and honor as stupid and evil.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 20, 2015 11:45 AM (39g3+)

140 I would suggest that a single-issue advocacy group has to demonstrate that they are non-partisan by endorsing politicians from whatever party as long as they are strong supporters of the group's cause. Because, if they don't, they will simply be dismissed as a partisan pressure group.

-----

Signed,

PETA, Planned Parenthood, The NAACP, SEIU, The Sierra Club, and GLAAD.

Posted by: fixerupper at April 20, 2015 11:45 AM (NaV4z)

141 Hey, can we talk about this one? I've been tempted once or twice with the "stupid" branding iron.
Posted by: wrg500
----------------

You are confusing college with gradeschool.

Posted by: Roy at April 20, 2015 11:46 AM (VndSC)

142 Your kid is WAY more likely to die in a car accident, drowning accident, accidental fall, disease, infection, (CDC has a whole bunch more of these) then by accidentally shooting himself with a gun.

I mean, every death is tragic, but we're talking about 1 out of several million odds here.

It'd be like banning lightening because people may get struck by it.

Posted by: mynewhandle at April 20, 2015 11:46 AM (AkOaV)

143 Speaking of Ted Cruz....anyone catch him on the Adam Carolla podcast? He was great.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at April 20, 2015 11:46 AM (0LHZx)

144 Let me just say I am honored to be recognized as Gun Salesman of the Year for the last six consecutive years.

Posted by: Barack Obama at April 20, 2015 11:46 AM (PtTYB)

145 Belief in the second amendment as a real, live, readable, something-the-Founders-intended-an-you-don't-have-to-invent-it civil right is the same as endorsing kids being killed. Got it.

This is the moment when you need to get the hell out of here, Jerry. You're hackneyed and tiresome.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at April 20, 2015 11:47 AM (659DL)

146 Many states have abandoned public school driver training, because it's expensive, the kids don't pay attention, the teachers are union, and there's legal liability.

I used to strenuously promote in-school gun-handling instruction, but then considered the above, and also what has happened to sex since the state took it over. Perhaps we're all safer if kids learn driving, shooting, and sex in the street, where it belongs. I mean, that's where it came from. Like the tango.

Many of you really hate literature, especially poetry. I have decided to blame the public schools for that, too, and can make a pretty good case for it. I don't even want to imagine a Common Core firearms curriculum.

Posted by: Stringer Davis at April 20, 2015 11:47 AM (xq1UY)

147 Signed,

PETA, Planned Parenthood, The NAACP, SEIU, The Sierra Club, and GLAAD.
Posted by: fixerupper at April 20, 2015 11:45 AM (NaV4z)

Don't forget NAMBLA

Posted by: maddogg at April 20, 2015 11:47 AM (xWW96)

148 I agree with Moo Moo on emphasizing choice. Most of the people I work with think "guns--icky!" I tell them, "I fully support your right not to own a gun."

Posted by: Cloyd Freud, Unemployed at April 20, 2015 11:47 AM (QRz0C)

149 moob moob puts the NRA and an organization for very twisted people in the same box.

Troll.

Posted by: eman at April 20, 2015 11:47 AM (MQEz6)

150 Kids killing themselves are Darwin Award candidates? WTF? That's a pretty fucked way of looking at things, kraken.

Gun accidents account for over 30,000 deaths per year.

There are very few accidental deaths. Something in the order of 300 per year. I don't call police shootings, suicide, gang killings and self defense as accidental.

Posted by: just bob at April 20, 2015 11:47 AM (wkuqO)

151 You are confusing college with gradeschool.

Posted by: Roy at April 20, 2015 11:46 AM (VndSC)

You never met my kids.

Posted by: wrg500 at April 20, 2015 11:47 AM (kQBSd)

152 Quick, what is more dangerous:

A backyard pool

A gun

Posted by: Lauren at April 20, 2015 11:47 AM (MYCIw)

153 How many of those gun deaths are from guns that people have illegally anyway?

I'd guess that the majority of homicides are in that category, but the other ones (suicide, accident, etc) probably not a large percentage.

Guns are really dangerous, and even the most rabid "no restrictions whatsoever" agrees that its smart to get training on how to use them. They're in a different category than, say, a sword. It takes skill and effort to kill someone with most weapons.

You can accidentally murder the most badass guy on earth with a pistol, holding the thing upside down behind your back with your eyes closed. There's a reason the saying about Sam Colt making people equal is timeless.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 20, 2015 11:48 AM (39g3+)

154 149 moob moob puts the NRA and an organization for very twisted people in the same box.

Troll.
Posted by: eman at April 20, 2015 11:47 AM (MQEz6)

__________

If you don't understand that NRA and NARAL are successful because they use the same strategy, you're a bigger imbecile than I thought.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at April 20, 2015 11:48 AM (0LHZx)

155 Newtown as a rallying cry was also a piss poor tragedy to exploit.

Anyone with half a braincell looked at that case and saw that an insane person stealing his mom's guns and shooting a bunch of people had zero to do with the gun laws in this country or assault rifles and had everything to do with an incredibly irresponsible parent.

It would be no different if the guy stole his mom's car and ran over a bunch of people. Nobody would say "we need stricter driver's license laws in this country!"

The average "guy on the street" saw the left-wing gun grabbers were exploiting a tragedy and the pendelum swung in favor of gun rights.

Posted by: McAdams at April 20, 2015 11:49 AM (D5chc)

156 152 Quick, what is more dangerous:

A backyard pool

A gun

Posted by: Lauren at April 20, 2015 11:47 AM (MYCIw)

A kid with a gun in a car in a pool!

Posted by: Insomniac at April 20, 2015 11:49 AM (2Ojst)

157 Amazing what the imbecile mind is capable of in perception. They can take an inanimate object made of metal, plastic, and wood and in their little minds, it becomes both fearsome and "icky".

Posted by: maddogg at April 20, 2015 11:49 AM (xWW96)

158 And right now, Big Popular Culture is focused on making homosexuals seem
heroic and portraying maturity, responsibility, and honor as stupid and
evil.

Except in video games. Which is presumably why feminists have been tasked with infiltrating the industry.

Posted by: Ian S. at April 20, 2015 11:49 AM (B/VB5)

159 Quick, what is more dangerous:

A backyard pool

A gun

Riding in a kid seat in an automobile.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at April 20, 2015 11:49 AM (659DL)

160 Posted by: Lauren at April 20, 2015 11:47 AM (MYCIw)

Are we talking military style assault pools, or just regular ol' pools?

Posted by: mynewhandle at April 20, 2015 11:49 AM (AkOaV)

161 I don't call police shootings, suicide, gang killings and self defense as accidental.
Posted by: just bob at April 20, 2015 11:47 AM (wkuqO)

----

Well.... cut him some slack. Im sure Chicago counts them that way.

Posted by: fixerupper at April 20, 2015 11:49 AM (NaV4z)

162 NARAL?

Oh, so you mean we should start putting out admittedly fake push polls, demonizing the Catholic Church, and fighting laws against ripping children apart limb by limb in the 3rd trimester?

Posted by: Lauren at April 20, 2015 11:50 AM (MYCIw)

163 I Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at April 20, 2015 11:48 AM

(0LHZx)

I understand that and I recognize you picked a revealing pairing.

Troll.

Posted by: eman at April 20, 2015 11:50 AM (MQEz6)

164 Quick, what is more dangerous:

A backyard pool

A gun

My wife's cooking.

Posted by: wrg500 at April 20, 2015 11:50 AM (kQBSd)

165 148 I agree with Moo Moo on emphasizing choice. Most of the people I work with think "guns--icky!" I tell them, "I fully support your right not to own a gun."
Posted by: Cloyd Freud, Unemployed at April 20, 2015 11:47 AM (QRz0C)

____________

I'd say 75% of Americans feel that way about most things. They may not like X, but they don't reality give a shit if their neighbor does X. Present guns as another X and it will be hard for the Bloombergs of the world to convince them that taking away choice is a good thing.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at April 20, 2015 11:50 AM (0LHZx)

166 When seconds count, the 5-0 is minutes away, at best...

Posted by: Ibin Pharteen at April 20, 2015 11:50 AM (zL/eJ)

167 Amazing what the imbecile mind is capable of in perception. They can take an inanimate object made of metal, plastic, and wood and in their little minds, it becomes both fearsome and "icky".

Like internal combustion-powered vehicles.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this sh1t at April 20, 2015 11:51 AM (0HooB)

168 Hollywood does the heavy lifting required to move popular opinion>>

Majority of all media does this heavy lifting. Watching local news station Saturday morning. They had a Doc on to talk about Lyme disease. At the end he threw in global warming as a cause for the increase in cases. And because he screwed up his script felt forced but he knew he had to get it in there.

Posted by: Buzzsaw at April 20, 2015 11:51 AM (wrS2o)

169
Posted by: Lauren at April 20, 2015 11:47 AM (MYCIw)

Are we talking military style assault pools, or just regular ol' pools?

Posted by: mynewhandle at April 20, 2015 11:49 AM (AkOaV)

Does the diving board have a shoulder thing that goes up?

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at April 20, 2015 11:51 AM (SpnVI)

170 Oh, so you mean we should start putting out admittedly fake push polls, demonizing the Catholic Church, and fighting laws against ripping children apart limb by limb in the 3rd trimester?
Posted by: Lauren at April 20, 2015 11:50 AM (MYCIw)

That is pretty much what that amoral lying shithead believes.

Posted by: buzzion at April 20, 2015 11:51 AM (zt+N6)

171 I'm telling you people, this has more to do with the internet and the free and unfettered access to information it provides. If not for blogs and the access to gun rights groups, and the ability to network and coordinate with one another, the gun rights groups would still be seen as RWNJs and the home of fat, old, white guys. The free flow of information allows quick refutation of false and misleading stories put out by a lazy media simply copying and pasting some crap from the Brady Bunch/Moms Demand/Everytown etc., etc., etc. It also allows us to put show events and shoots that are diverse and, in fact, family friendly.

Posted by: chiefjaybob at April 20, 2015 11:51 AM (2L77z)

172 Teaching the four rules would take maybe four hours out of health class. There's no reason they shouldn't be taught.

Posted by: Chupacabras at April 20, 2015 11:51 AM (l2max)

173 Posted by: McAdams at April 20, 2015 11:49 AM (D5chc)

This.

A lot of "you gun lover types are nuts! The government doesnt want your guns! just common sense stuff!" types were like "oh, I see what they're talking about" in the after math of Sandy.

Because if you recall, the libs were tripping over themselves to get to a microphone to come up with all kinds of laws that were entirely unrelated to sandy hook and many were coming close to openly admitting that they want to ban guns.

Remember Obama.. "If it could save one child..."

Yeah. I think that swung a lot of opinions the other way.

Posted by: mynewhandle at April 20, 2015 11:52 AM (AkOaV)

174 Does the diving board have a shoulder thing that goes up?
Posted by: IllTemperedCur at April 20, 2015 11:51 AM (SpnVI)

Bayonet lug and a flash suppressor (in case your swim trunks fall off).

Posted by: Insomniac at April 20, 2015 11:52 AM (2Ojst)

175 I don't own a gun, I've ever owned one, I don't particularly like guns.

brb: Gotta house to break into. Some guy that makes all kinda money but isn't too smart.

Posted by: Criminal Mind at April 20, 2015 11:52 AM (xQX/f)

176 Except in video games. Which is presumably why feminists have been tasked with infiltrating the industry.

Indeed, they can tell this sector of entertainment (which in young people eclipses TV and movies) is out of their control and ruining everything. So they want to get in there and "fix" it too. The problem is, the industry is too decentralized and numerous. If you control the output of the biggest game companies to be more politically correct, eight more new companies will show up putting out what people want to play.

However, if PCs are phased out for consoles and tablet type platforms, controlling that content becomes enormously easier, because the carriers become much fewer and more easily leveraged into obeying.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 20, 2015 11:53 AM (39g3+)

177
and a flash suppressor (in case your swim trunks fall off).

Posted by: Insomniac at April 20, 2015 11:52 AM (2Ojst)

*snort*

Well-played.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at April 20, 2015 11:53 AM (SpnVI)

178 he free flow of information allows quick refutation of false and misleading stories put out by a lazy media simply copying and pasting some crap from the Brady Bunch/Moms Demand/Everytown etc., etc., etc. It also allows us to put show events and shoots that are diverse and, in fact, family friendly.
Posted by: chiefjaybob at April 20, 2015 11:51 AM (2L77z)

-----

Which is EXACLTY why I had to shut you fucking nutball wingers down.

Posted by: Lois Lerner at April 20, 2015 11:53 AM (NaV4z)

179 How do you propose gun rights groups get out your "choice" message to people that have interest in the gun media?

Because, you know, the pro-gun side gets equal time in the MSM...

/sarc

Posted by: Chupacabras at April 20, 2015 11:54 AM (XiVKO)

180
nood

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at April 20, 2015 11:54 AM (SpnVI)

181 Funny how being confronted with an arrogant, in-your-face, tyrannical government that tramples on the rights of the people and protects its loyal lackeys tends to remind people of the reason for the Second Amendment in the first place, isn't it?

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at April 20, 2015 11:54 AM (zF6Iw)

182 Must have been 45 years ago I first heard the argument, Marijuana is no worse than tobacco, why not legalize it? This year, tobacco will become illegal.

So, cars, 5-gallon buckets, swimming pools, stairs and lightning are all more dangerous than guns. And they have a plan to ban every one of them. No joke.

Arguing by analogy is very dangerous. You should have to wait five days.

Posted by: Stringer Davis at April 20, 2015 11:54 AM (xq1UY)

183 162 NARAL?

Oh, so you mean we should start putting out admittedly fake push polls, demonizing the Catholic Church, and fighting laws against ripping children apart limb by limb in the 3rd trimester?

Posted by: Lauren at April 20, 2015 11:50 AM (MYCIw)

__________

Well that's kind of what the NRA does now. The AR-15 is the equivalent of a late term abortion. It's at the extreme end of the single issue. Most people are fine with someone owning a handgun. Most people would be fine with banning AR-15s. Most people are OK with abortions, most people oppose partial brith. But both AR-15s and partial birth is legal because NRA and NARAL have been successful at keeping the extremes legal. That's what they do. They fight each and every possible restriction on guns and abortion. And they do it very, very well.

If you take your anti-abortion blinders off for a second and just look at the tactics used by both, you'll see that they're essentially mirror images of each other. You don't have to agree with what NARAL does to understand it's an effective organization.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at April 20, 2015 11:55 AM (0LHZx)

184 "Newtown as a rallying cry was also a piss poor tragedy to exploit.

Anyone
with half a braincell looked at that case and saw that an insane person
stealing his mom's guns and shooting a bunch of people had zero to do
with the gun laws in this country or assault rifles and had everything
to do with an incredibly irresponsible parent.

It would be no
different if the guy stole his mom's car and ran over a bunch of people.
Nobody would say "we need stricter driver's license laws in this
country!"

The average "guy on the street" saw the left-wing gun
grabbers were exploiting a tragedy and the pendelum swung in favor of
gun rights."

You should go to the schools, and witness Rachel's Challenge. Mining desired results on the backs of a tragedy - its the classic Leftist game-plan, up there with SocSec Grandma eating dog food, dirty water drinking (how 'bout we get Monsanto on that????), and "this is what $29 buys" Paltrow meme...

Posted by: Ibin Pharteen at April 20, 2015 11:55 AM (zL/eJ)

185 @179

Have no interest in the gun media.

Posted by: Chupacabras at April 20, 2015 11:56 AM (l2max)

186 "Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at April 20, 2015 11:55 AM (0LHZx)"

You said one thing I agree with, but then you had to get all cray-cray on me.

Posted by: Cloyd Freud, Unemployed at April 20, 2015 11:57 AM (QRz0C)

187 Amazing what the imbecile mind is capable of in perception. They can take an inanimate object made of metal, plastic, and wood and in their little minds, it becomes both fearsome and "icky".

I dunno icky but come on. A knife is just made of metal and wood and leather, but that doesn't make the end result any less intimidating. How its shaped and what it does is the key, not the raw materials. A bomb is some chemicals and metal (and some cloth, if you make one of those old style anarchist bowling ball-candle looking ones). But that doesn't mean its any less frightening when its sitting in your kid's classroom.

Guns are intimidating and badass/scary looking. That's part of their selling point. The very sight of one changes peoples' viewpoint on the situation. If you pulled out some random bits of metal, plastic, and wood when being robbed, the robber will wonder if you're offering them instead of cash. Assemble those into a gun and everything is different.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 20, 2015 11:57 AM (39g3+)

188 "Guns are intimidating and badass/scary looking. That's part of their selling point. "

Strike two.

Were in the Hell did you learn about firearms?

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at April 20, 2015 11:58 AM (LA7Cm)

189 @ Moo Moo

If you think the AR-15 is the equivalent to late-term abortion, and an extreme weapon, you invalidated anything you have to say about icky guns.

Posted by: Chupacabras at April 20, 2015 11:59 AM (l2max)

190 The problem is that liberals fear being called a "racist" more than anything in the world, and that their second greatest fear is black people with guns.

Posted by: NYC Parent plumbing ever greater depths of cynicism and disgust at April 20, 2015 11:59 AM (HEo6y)

191 Strike two.

Dude. Seriously? Just a few months ago on this very blog, a coblogger pointed out how badass a new gun looked and noted that gunmakers deliberately do so to increase sales. What on earth would compel you to even begin to question that?

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 20, 2015 12:00 PM (39g3+)

192 You said one thing I agree with, but then you had to get all cray-cray on me.
Posted by: Cloyd Freud, Unemployed at April 20, 2015 11:57 AM (QRz0C)

And that's the problem - he may occasionally come up with a valid point, but it's almost invariably wrapped in a thick layer of assholery.

Posted by: Insomniac at April 20, 2015 12:01 PM (2Ojst)

193 Chris Taylor, AllenG's beaten me to it, but in fact "common sense" things like some sort of background check, and fully auto weapons being hard to get, in fact don't really contribute much if anything to public safety.

I've just been pondering this exact issue in recent months. Like you, and most people, at first glance, based on "common sense", waiting periods etc. seem sensible. But having lots of concrete, real-world side-by-side data (as AllenG points out, 10-day states vs. walk-out-with-the-gun-states), we see that, in fact, "common sense" in this case leads us astray.

Posted by: rhomboid at April 20, 2015 12:03 PM (afQnV)

194 " What on earth would compel you to even begin to question that?"

Well, number one would be that I own many firearms and never once, ever, have I bought something because I thought it was "badass." Most buy for a specific reason for a specific task. Not how "cool" it looks. That is Hollywood, hollow, fan-boy, leftist think.

You can have some idiots that want an AR for know reason other than to show it off, yep. But in terms of the gun buying public they are a clear minority.

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at April 20, 2015 12:03 PM (LA7Cm)

195 America's problem isn't guns. It's empty psycho wards and too much welfare going to able-bodied 'folks'.

Posted by: Driz at April 20, 2015 12:03 PM (/dzff)

196 Well that's kind of what the NRA does now. The AR-15 is the equivalent of a late term abortion. It's at the extreme end of the single issue. Most people are fine with someone owning a handgun. Most people would be fine with banning AR-15s.
Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at April 20, 2015 11:55 AM (0LHZx)

Moo Moo, do you even know what an AR-15 is? And no, most people would not be in favor of banning it. The only people who want to ban it are people who watch too much TV and media and think AR-15's get up from the back seat, walk into movie theaters and begin killing hundreds of people. Because Mom's against Guns and Micheal Bloomberg thought it would be easy pickings to start their repeal of gun rights to use a gun that is constantly portrayed in Hollywood as a murder machine.

Posted by: Jen the original at April 20, 2015 12:05 PM (PfWwQ)

197 This is a war we're winning, at least for now, but I think the biggest
advantage the gun grabbers have is that many people just don't know
anything about guns.

Many people think "assault rifles" are
automatic machine guns. They see an AR-15 and they think it's a
military weapon. The reality is an AR-15 if anything is far safer to
society than most semi automatic pistols.

Semi automatic rifles only are involved in a fraction of crimes, and it's ability to shoot an innocent person is really no greater than other rifles with 100+ year old technology that's been around forever.

Posted by: McAdams at April 20, 2015 12:06 PM (D5chc)

198 The amoral shithead moo moo just wanted to get out and push his pro-murdering children stance.

Posted by: buzzion at April 20, 2015 12:07 PM (zt+N6)

199 " it's ability to shoot an innocent person is really no greater than other rifles with 100+ year old technology that's been around forever."

Yes, yes, but the emotional vagina people get ooky because it looks like meany so get rid of it. Common sense and all.

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at April 20, 2015 12:09 PM (LA7Cm)

200 I submit that, until Newton, most of the country was unaware of the arguments made by gun rights advocates. Ironically Newton started the "conversation" the left always seems to want to have and they simply lost the argument.

Posted by: ghoti at April 20, 2015 12:09 PM (MfnVg)

201 I think you're trying to point out that AR-15's are not "assault rifles", yes McAdams?

Posted by: Chupacabras at April 20, 2015 12:09 PM (5npD/)

202 I know it's standard procedure to get all vituperative with the bovine one over whatever, but here he really has outdone himself (AR-15/abortion analogy).

Wow.

Pristinely, hilariously wrong (on both sides of the comically inapt analogy).

It's funny. Firearms really do reveal limited life experience or ignorance/bigotry more quickly than almost any other topic. And I've only had the chance to own/use them relatively recently in my life - but was exposed early and had basic knowledge and respect for the topic. So I'm not a life-long firearms lifestyler.

But the stunning ignorance and accompanying bigotry about firearms - the fear, almost a pure case of fear based on ignorance - matches anything we see disfiguring the country and making it less free, less safe, and less prosperous (the effect of almost all fashionable govt. interference).

Posted by: rhomboid at April 20, 2015 12:11 PM (afQnV)

203 The NRA trade show was full of AR-15's from the original Armalite company to newbies just starting to produce them. And many booths selling add ons, etc.

They are extremely popular target and varmint guns. With good reason, the thingy's that flip up and adjustable butt stocks, etc. make them very user friendly and accurate.

So they are actually kind to coyotes, etc. because you can off them with one shot. LOL....

Posted by: Jen the original at April 20, 2015 12:11 PM (PfWwQ)

204 Directly related: American are shifting to rural homes.

All good for the Conservative cause.

Posted by: Kirk at April 20, 2015 12:13 PM (GBnWt)

205 Scary looking AR15
http://tinyurl.com/k9zfsso

Not so scary looking Mini14 Ranch Rifle
http://tinyurl.com/23gjj8o

Difference in lead throwing ability 0

Posted by: Buzzsaw at April 20, 2015 12:14 PM (wrS2o)

206 Oh, and for "common sense" and full auto ownership, any guesses as to how many felonies have been committed with a licensed (legally owned)full auto weapon since the 1934 act creating controls on those sorts of firearms? Which sorta kinda gives you an idea as to its efficacy, or rather the need for such controls.

Posted by: rhomboid at April 20, 2015 12:15 PM (afQnV)

207 "...I personally think requiring someone to have a license in order to carry a concealed firearm is a violation of the 2nd Amendment..."

As a judge said here in Maryland, you shouldn't need permission to have a (2A) constitutional right.

You don't see people making you have a permit to have free speech, or to practice religion, so why the 2A?

Posted by: Daisy Cutter at April 20, 2015 12:16 PM (myGBe)

208 I would also postulate that hard working organizations/companies such as the one I'll link below do a great job introducing new and female shooters to handguns and to those scary black military guns.

Watch the video. I saw this at the NRA convention, these folks are fabulous.

http://shootlikeagirl.com/

Posted by: Jen the original at April 20, 2015 12:17 PM (PfWwQ)

209 Have any legally owned SBR's or silencer equipped weapons even been used in crimes?

Posted by: Chupacabras at April 20, 2015 12:17 PM (5npD/)

210 Chris Taylor, AllenG's beaten me to it, but in fact "common sense" things like some sort of background check, and fully auto weapons being hard to get, in fact don't really contribute much if anything to public safety.

I don't think there's nearly enough data on this to draw any conclusions, but certainly waiting a day to get your gun is hardly an awful imposition. And checking peoples' background to make sure they aren't a known dangerous lunatic is not unreasonable, is it?

We require people to get a license to drive not because this is proven a public safety issue, but because it makes sense that people should demonstrate they can properly use a dangerous device before allowing them to do so.

Well, number one would be that I own many firearms and never once, ever, have I bought something because I thought it was "badass."

So if you had a choice between a matte black AR-15 and a bright pink hello kitty one, you'd just pick the closest one because who cares, they're the same gun? No, you'd pick the one that doesn't look silly. How a device looks and how you feel holding it affects all purchases, even if you don't think about it in terms of being badass or not. Gun manufacturers make their guns look dangerous and scary because that's what guns are supposed to be and it helps sales. I expect you'd agree with that, in another context.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 20, 2015 12:17 PM (39g3+)

211 It's not as though we don't know about it, Daisy Cutter, but yes the 2A situation sort of highlights the ridiculously lawless and arbitrary situation Americans live in, despite having the best constitutional legacy of any existing nation.

"Equal protection", dontchaknow, mandates the redefinition of mankind's oldest social institution (marriage) even over the expressed views of the actual society, yet permits explicit racial discrimination and social engineering by the State (affirmative action, etc.). Right.

And this is just the tip of the iceberg. No hope of it happening, but it would be nice if some people noticed how off the rails things are when a simple, clear, expressly listed individual constitutional right is limited, denied, infringed, regulated, injected, detected, etc. by the "judicial" system. And clawing back even part of this right takes years and years and years (see any number of simple, obvious-on-the-merits gun control cases).

Yet absurd, actually unimportant, factitious "rights" are manufactured and expedited and crammed down society's throat at light speed.

Posted by: rhomboid at April 20, 2015 12:23 PM (afQnV)

212 " Gun manufacturers make their guns look dangerous and scary because that's what guns are supposed to be and it helps sales. "

Oh. My. God.

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at April 20, 2015 12:23 PM (LA7Cm)

213
I'm all for gun control.

It results in smaller groups.

Posted by: irongrampa at April 20, 2015 12:30 PM (jeCnD)

214 I think you're trying to point out that AR-15's are not "assault rifles", yes McAdams?

Posted by: Chupacabras

I think every gun has the potential to be labeled an "assault rifle" so I don't want any laws crafted under the idea that the cosmetics of a gun have anything to do with how "dangerous" it is.

The overwhelming majority of gun crimes and homicides are committed with pistols, yet there's this obsession with "scary" looking assault rifles.

Posted by: McAdams at April 20, 2015 12:35 PM (D5chc)

215 Yikes, Chris Taylor, you're all over the map, and wrong on every count.

Quick summary

What's enough data to observe that waiting periods make no difference? Check your logic circuits. Of course no-wait states vs. 10-day states like CA can be easily and quickly compared for crime-of-passion felonies using firearms within days of purchase. Spoiler: there's no evidence of any difference.

You don't understand the background check. It is instant. So "background" check and waiting period are completely different things - why you can walk out of a store in many states with the gun you just bought, but must wait 10 days in CA. In both cases you've had the same "background check".

Double error on driver's license analogy. Obviously driving is not an expressly guaranteed (and simple) const. right. Second, there IS no operating safety/competence element to buying a gun in most states. There is no "driver's test", written or practical. And again, contrast the record in different states. No evidence of any benefit to, say, the mickey mouse "safety" test one must pass in CA to get a handgun (but not a rifle!).

And Chris, I am stunned you can suggest that "hey, what's the harm?" as a defense of some govt. imposition or process with no value. It is precisely the same lazy, sloppy analysis (sorry) that gives us "no regrets" "environmental" policies. Sheesh.

Posted by: rhomboid at April 20, 2015 12:37 PM (afQnV)

216 As many previous comments have said, it's because of who is in charge.

People get more worried about losing a right when there's a perception of a genuine threat to it.

Posted by: Nicholas Kronos at April 20, 2015 12:40 PM (W7SBW)

217 It'd be like banning lightening because people may get struck by it.

Posted by: mynewhandle
****************

Now that's just ridiculous. You can't BAN lighting.

Can you?

Posted by: Warden at April 20, 2015 12:46 PM (wHAYQ)

218 NavycopJoe has the correct tactic: unmicroaggression.

Guns are mostly black, if you oppose them you are racist.

If you have a traditional firearm in your home, you are ipso facto not racist via unmicroaggression.

Same thing if you, like I, like Clint Black.

"You were the first thing that I thought of, when I tried to drink you off my mind."

Posted by: Twoslaps at April 20, 2015 12:51 PM (vCAyx)

219 @McAdams

AR-15's are not assault rifles. Civilians cannot even buy new assault rifles.

The term is a buggaboo made up by the gun control lobby to scare the uninformed. Don't do them any favors by using their language.

Posted by: Chupacabras at April 20, 2015 12:52 PM (kZVsz)

220
AR-15's are not assault rifles. Civilians cannot even buy new assault rifles.

The
term is a buggaboo made up by the gun control lobby to scare the
uninformed. Don't do them any favors by using their language.

Posted by: Chupacabras

If you actually read my post you would see I was making that point

Posted by: McAdams at April 20, 2015 01:07 PM (D5chc)

221 I have several weapon bought only for their bad-assed amusement.

Posted by: toby928(C) whom we shall call 'Toby' for purposes of publication at April 20, 2015 01:08 PM (rwI+c)

222 Then your scare quotes were in the wrong place.

Posted by: Chupacabras at April 20, 2015 01:12 PM (CGjum)

223 No, actually I put the quotation marks in the right place because I think the term is absurd

Sort of like "white hispanic"

Posted by: McAdams at April 20, 2015 01:16 PM (D5chc)

224 Posted by Chi town

93 Sorry.. that was total gun deaths.. accidental deaths are under 1000..

Right, when the numbers are 600 and under, why not just up and say..

Accidental deaths are under 1 MILLION per year.

Only fcking cocksuckers keep on lying with numbers.

Posted by: Al Swearengen at April 20, 2015 01:17 PM (CBEMP)

225 Your scare quotes were around "scary" and not "assault rifle" in the second paragraph, which is what led me to misinterpret what you were saying.

Posted by: Chupacabras at April 20, 2015 01:24 PM (l2max)

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