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Fundamental Concepts – Value [Weirddave]
So here's my fun life. I'm trying to deprogram a kid who spent the past three years embedded in the SJW/Proggy subculture. I see lots of you who sent your kids away to college nodding your heads. Well, it wasn't college in my case, but the results are the same. One of the hardest concepts to reintroduce is value, because it is so routinely dismissed and denied by leftists worldviews. Lets start with the most basic concept:
“X” is worth exactly what someone will pay for it.
That's it, really, there is nothing else to say. Goooodnight every body! No, really, that should be all there is to say, but so many people make it a career of denying this one simple truth that entire industries have arisen to support the denial. Unions, to name just one obvious culprit. Minimum wage laws, to name another. Human beings just seem to be hardwired to deny the obvious. Lets start with an example: My car. I just went and used the Kelly Blue Book website to calculate the “value” of my car. It came back with a figure: $10,431. That's it, the definitive word for a private sale from a recognized expert source: My car is worth $10,431 (which is depressing because I owe more than that on the loan, but that's another story). But is it? Well, I went to Craigslist, and looked for the same make, model and year. There's a lot of results, and it's not nearly as specific as KBB (KBB lets you control for options, condition, etc.., Craigslist just lists everything), but a quick rough estimate off the top of my head shows my car listing for an average of $13,000. Brilliant! My car is worth $2500 more than it's worth! Wait, what? And that's the crux of it. KBB is a respected, honest, earnest company with decades of experience behind it. I absolutely believe that they are giving their best, expert estimate as to what I could get for my car, but right this second cars just like mine are listing for $2500 more. So what is my car worth? $10, 431 or $13,000? The answer is neither. My car is worth whatever I can get for it if I decided to sell it. It might start as a $10,431 car, but because it's stick shift, which is rare, someone who likes driving manual would give me more than that. It might start at $13,000, but because of that goddamn dent in the passenger side below the back door that doesn't effect anything but it's ugly ( a plow threw a parking block into a snowdrift and I didn't see it. In case you haven't guessed, this sequence of events still pisses me off ) nobody will give me more than $12,350. What's it worth? I don't know, and I won't know until I try to sell it. Here's another completely made up example. Let us postulate a house. This house:
Now that house is in Detroit, and it's definitely a handyman special, a real fixer-upper. What's it worth? In this world, nothing most likely. Really, would you pay anything for THAT? In Detroit of all places? Probably not.
But now lets add a twist. That particular home was the childhood home of Daddy Warbucks, who is richer than hell and dying fast from aggressive pancreatic cancer. Daddy Warbucks has come to realize the error of his evil capitalist ways, and wishes to live out the last week of his life as he lived in a simpler time. Money is no object and time of the essence. He'll pay $10,000,000 to die in his childhood bedroom.
So what is the house worth? Last week, it was worth nothing. Next week, it'll be worth nothing. Right now, it's worth TEN MILLION DOLLARS!
My advice is sell quick.
What's changed? It's important to realize that the house didn't change, Detroit didn't change. Nothing changed except that one old man suddenly decided to spend everything to be comfortable in his last days, and that changed the market. As soon as he died it changed back. The entire time, the house was worth what someone would spend for it. That didn't change. The number did.
How does this apply to labor?
Exactly the same way. Labor is a commodity. People who need things done will pay for that commodity. How much they will pay depends on how badly they want a certain task done. My older son, Big, just can't seem to get this concept through his big, fat, melon head. Big is looking for a job. He keeps texting me leftist bullshit to justify his frustration. You ever attempt to educate someone on economics through text? Don't. It's not fun.
Here's a perfect example of what I'm talking about:
Big: ”Without minimum wage laws, employers would pay their employees the minimum they could get away with!”
Me: “The minimum they can get away with is exactly what they are worth!”*Big and I stare at each other with perfect mutual filial loathing * (metaphorically speaking, this was via text) Hmmmm. Jonah Goldberg's couch just phoned me and told me two thing. #1, shame on me for stealing his bit, and #2, wrap it up, I'm meandering. Look, it really is as simple as I said way back at the beginning. Anything: good, labor, service, all it's worth is what someone else will pay for it. If you want your good, labor or service to be worth more, then it's up to you to make it worth more. That's a fact of human existence as immutable as gravity is in the physical world. Any philosophy, political or sociological, that denies that simple truth is destined to fail, utterly and catastrophically. I'd suggest using that as a yardstick. You can do what you want, but as for me, my minimum requirement for decision making is reality. Cold, hard, uncompromising reality. It doesn't make me “feel” good very often, but dealing with what IS rather than what my feels say should be in a rainbows and unicorns world has paid great dividends IRL. I just wish I could get Big to realize this. Do you think I could smack him on the head with an axe? You should be able to smack kids on the head with an axe, shouldn't you? It didn't used to be against the law, did it? Seriously, that's the solution. Smacking kids on the head with an axe used to be illegal, and that was good until I personally turned about 30, because dad would have had a field day with me, but now that law is bad because it precludes me from smacking Big over the head with an axe, right?
Comments
(Jump to bottom of comments)1
Unions, to name just one obvious culprit. Minimum wage laws, to name another.
What do they have in common. They are both forms of socialism. And socialism always fails.
What do they have in common. They are both forms of socialism. And socialism always fails.
Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at April 18, 2015 10:34 AM (wlDny)
2
Did everyone leave?
Posted by: wisenheimer at April 18, 2015 10:38 AM (qnhj2)
3
Wow, going through the same thing right now with my daughter. Sent her off to school, paying a mint for tuition, and what is she getting out of it? 24/7 indoctrination. Every day I wonder, how is it possible that we're paying THEM to have our children brainwashed? How has it come to this and why are we participating in this scam like such sheep?
Posted by: Average Jen at April 18, 2015 10:38 AM (HmrPM)
4
Ya, return on investmeent is another for another day too...
Don't smack him, reality will do that for you.
Don't smack him, reality will do that for you.
Posted by: Gmac- Pulling in feelers in preperation... at April 18, 2015 10:40 AM (4CRfK)
5
1- gofundme
2- campaign for a university system managed by conservatives with a curriculum based on common-sense, logic, and patriotism
3- hire only conservatives to teach
4- PROFIT!!
2- campaign for a university system managed by conservatives with a curriculum based on common-sense, logic, and patriotism
3- hire only conservatives to teach
4- PROFIT!!
Posted by: Grad School Fool at April 18, 2015 10:42 AM (A9KzJ)
6
As P.J. O'Rourke put it, one of the biggest fantasies of socialism is that something has a worth that is other than what people will pay for it.
Posted by: RedMindBlueState at April 18, 2015 10:42 AM (kJUI8)
7
I would not have that house if they gave it to me for free. So why is property so cheap in Detroit? Simple; the taxes are more than what the houses are worth.
And that so-called Clint house in Detroit that had his nice lawn that he wanted the punks to stay off of? It wasn't in Detroit. It was in Highland Park.
And that so-called Clint house in Detroit that had his nice lawn that he wanted the punks to stay off of? It wasn't in Detroit. It was in Highland Park.
Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at April 18, 2015 10:43 AM (wlDny)
8
Money is no object and time of the essence. He'll pay $10,000,000 to die in his childhood bedroom.
And die he will, or at least some of the workman he hires to make it livable. People who buy these houses are preyed upon by the criminal element.
And die he will, or at least some of the workman he hires to make it livable. People who buy these houses are preyed upon by the criminal element.
Posted by: Bruce J. at April 18, 2015 10:44 AM (iQIUe)
9
So you're saying that Hillary will spend 2.1 billion dollars to get the presidency, when all she really needs is 50 dollars to buy a pen and a phone?
Posted by: Yes means Maybe at April 18, 2015 10:46 AM (7wyDO)
10
I know a woman who's brother bought one of these houses. He found people were stealing his electricity and when he disconnected the illegal wiring, he was shot in the neck by a neighbor. He lost so much blood he stroked out on the way to the hospital. He is now severely disabled.
I know a woman who's brother bought one of these houses. He found people were stealing his electricity and when he disconnected the illegal wiring, he was shot in the neck by a neighbor. He lost so much blood he stroked out on the way to the hospital. He is now severely disabled.
Posted by: Bruce J. at April 18, 2015 10:46 AM (iQIUe)
11
Can you imagine Bill back in the WH? Half the news will be on him.
Can you imagine Bill back in the WH? Half the news will be on him.
Posted by: Bruce J. at April 18, 2015 10:47 AM (iQIUe)
12
Nice to pay around $200K to get your kid brainwashed by these pricks.
A bat on the head of these "administrators" would be nice.
A bat on the head of these "administrators" would be nice.
Posted by: TexasJew at April 18, 2015 10:50 AM (7OF+y)
13
Value?
Hey the good news is everyone is about to make 15 bucks an hour minimum....
the bad news is we're about to have 18.75 cent big macs.
#RobotBurgerChef never forgets my fries.
Hey the good news is everyone is about to make 15 bucks an hour minimum....
the bad news is we're about to have 18.75 cent big macs.
#RobotBurgerChef never forgets my fries.
Posted by: sven10077 at April 18, 2015 10:53 AM (/4AZU)
14
The "Team Hillary" Chipolte pre-trip planning vid. is worth a spin. Pretty funny.
Posted by: Brave Sir Robin at April 18, 2015 10:53 AM (5buP8)
15
At least KBB is making a good faith effort, in contrast to HHS.
The notion of 'value' (as opposed to 'cost' as opposed to 'spending') got totally subsumed in the run-up to passage of Obamacare. It sounds oh, so nice to use terms like "bending the cost curve down", "or reducing healthcare spending".
Ultimately though, when the person consuming the service and the person providing the service are both removed from the determination of the "price" of that service, the true value cannot be determined.
The notion of 'value' (as opposed to 'cost' as opposed to 'spending') got totally subsumed in the run-up to passage of Obamacare. It sounds oh, so nice to use terms like "bending the cost curve down", "or reducing healthcare spending".
Ultimately though, when the person consuming the service and the person providing the service are both removed from the determination of the "price" of that service, the true value cannot be determined.
Posted by: Muldoon, a solid man at April 18, 2015 10:54 AM (NeFrd)
16
10 Posted by: Bruce J. at April 18, 2015 10:46 AM (iQIUe)
Electricity theft is gonna be along with water theft the national sport in "The new california republic'....
Me I aim to live in an underground cave on battery power.
Electricity theft is gonna be along with water theft the national sport in "The new california republic'....
Me I aim to live in an underground cave on battery power.
Posted by: sven10077 at April 18, 2015 10:55 AM (/4AZU)
17
...okay, you don't consume a service, but you know what I mean...
Posted by: Muldoon, a solid man at April 18, 2015 10:56 AM (NeFrd)
18
Wow, going through the same thing right now with my daughter. Sent her off to school, paying a mint for tuition, and what is she getting out of it? 24/7 indoctrination. Every day I wonder, how is it possible that we're paying THEM to have our children brainwashed? How has it come to this and why are we participating in this scam like such sheep?
Posted by: Average Jen at April 18, 2015 10:38 AM (HmrPM)
Between abortion and socialist narcissism,
they are losing the child-bearing wars.
Hence, the brain-washing of your youngsters.
Plus, amnesty.
Good times.
Posted by: Average Jen at April 18, 2015 10:38 AM (HmrPM)
Between abortion and socialist narcissism,
they are losing the child-bearing wars.
Hence, the brain-washing of your youngsters.
Plus, amnesty.
Good times.
Posted by: naturalfake at April 18, 2015 10:57 AM (KUa85)
19
Stuff like this makes me seriously worry for our future. The delusional aspect of a vast part of the population is strong, and even when their beliefs get overturned by reality, they will frequently double down on "oh, it wasn't my fault that this failed, is capitalism/government/some other factor" as an excuse, never re-evaluating their base assumptions.
I was lucky that 9/11 caused me to pause and re do a lot of 'math' in my head of my assumptions of the world, right before college. So that when I went a lot of the shit they spouted went one ear in out the other, or at least made me weight what theories they espoused against evidence from living in reality and see what made sense and what was bullshit.
There was an astounding amount of bullshit. And since the public school system has completely failed to teach critical thinking anymore (oh, they say they do, but their idea of critical thinking is believe this or you're a hater/racist/sexist/etc), so many people fall into that trap.
God help us all.
I was lucky that 9/11 caused me to pause and re do a lot of 'math' in my head of my assumptions of the world, right before college. So that when I went a lot of the shit they spouted went one ear in out the other, or at least made me weight what theories they espoused against evidence from living in reality and see what made sense and what was bullshit.
There was an astounding amount of bullshit. And since the public school system has completely failed to teach critical thinking anymore (oh, they say they do, but their idea of critical thinking is believe this or you're a hater/racist/sexist/etc), so many people fall into that trap.
God help us all.
Posted by: Gaff at April 18, 2015 10:57 AM (Lsl9L)
20
And speaking of property tax, guess what the assessed value of that house will be for the purposes of property tax. That's right, $10M. And good luck getting it changed.
Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at April 18, 2015 10:58 AM (wlDny)
21
Posted by: sven10077 at April 18, 2015 10:55 AM (/4AZU)
Do laser rifles and supermutants also factor into these plans?
Do laser rifles and supermutants also factor into these plans?
Posted by: Cato the Rebel Without a Party at April 18, 2015 10:59 AM (3HxZe)
22
There is no doubt a need in the market for a truly "Classical Liberal" (iow: "Conservative") University.
This is the playground of billionaires though. Foundations, grants, trusts and the like, in order to buy land, raise buildings, hire faculty and staff.
Accreditation is a hurdle, too. How many screaming libs on State Education Boards are going to vote to approve a conservative curriculum, worthy of recognition of their degrees?
All that said, the market is in desperate need for this.
The cliche' "If You Build It, They Will Come", is so manifestly true in this case. I'd love to see it begin to transpire in what remaining years I have on this planet.
Jim
Sunk New Dawn
Galveston, TX
This is the playground of billionaires though. Foundations, grants, trusts and the like, in order to buy land, raise buildings, hire faculty and staff.
Accreditation is a hurdle, too. How many screaming libs on State Education Boards are going to vote to approve a conservative curriculum, worthy of recognition of their degrees?
All that said, the market is in desperate need for this.
The cliche' "If You Build It, They Will Come", is so manifestly true in this case. I'd love to see it begin to transpire in what remaining years I have on this planet.
Jim
Sunk New Dawn
Galveston, TX
Posted by: Jim at April 18, 2015 11:00 AM (RzZOc)
23
Seattle is rapidly finding out the hidden costs of a "living wage." It's the death of small business. They're openly bitching about the way their favorite vegan joints are shuttering up at an alarming rate. I love watching the left devour its own tail.
Posted by: Brave Sir Robin at April 18, 2015 11:00 AM (5buP8)
24
There are still safe havens, but you have to have money to get to them.
My son went to the LAST all male HS boarding school in the country.
Woodberry Forest boys don't turn out liberal. You can bring your shotgun to school. He was captain of the Skeet team.
The only teams they could find to shoot against were college teams. Then went undefeated. Beating UNC was the most fun.
My son went to the LAST all male HS boarding school in the country.
Woodberry Forest boys don't turn out liberal. You can bring your shotgun to school. He was captain of the Skeet team.
The only teams they could find to shoot against were college teams. Then went undefeated. Beating UNC was the most fun.
Posted by: Nip Sip at April 18, 2015 11:01 AM (0FSuD)
25
Went to my daughter's college graduation two weeks ago. It's bad. I'm afraid she's already lost. She doesn't really give half an crap about me anyway (her mother saw to that) so there's not much I can do.
She barely resembles the girl I knew.
WD, be thankful for the relationship you do have with Big.
Maybe she'll grow out of it but I doubt it.
She barely resembles the girl I knew.
WD, be thankful for the relationship you do have with Big.
Maybe she'll grow out of it but I doubt it.
Posted by: weirdflunkyonatablet at April 18, 2015 11:02 AM (1jJbj)
26
Posted by: naturalfake at April 18, 2015 10:57 AM (KUa85)
Don't be so sure of that. The welfare queens are still pumping out children, responsible people are having less and less children they can't afford, and large amounts of rational men are giving up on dating thanks to the radical feminist-influenced crazies out there.
Don't be so sure of that. The welfare queens are still pumping out children, responsible people are having less and less children they can't afford, and large amounts of rational men are giving up on dating thanks to the radical feminist-influenced crazies out there.
Posted by: Cato the Rebel Without a Party at April 18, 2015 11:02 AM (3HxZe)
27
21 Posted by: Cato the Rebel Without a Party at April 18, 2015 10:59 AM (3HxZe)
Go long on 10mm pistols and spears...
Go long on 10mm pistols and spears...
Posted by: sven10077 at April 18, 2015 11:03 AM (/4AZU)
28
The real issue is equality of outcomes vs equality of opportunity.
The left masks everything they do in equality of outcome, but that's not what they really want. They always want someone to suffer, whether they openly admit it or not. There is always a Peter that must be robbed to pay for Paul.
Equality of outcome is impossible, for many, many factors. Equality of opportunity is the only real answer. But there is no graft in that, so it isn't the popular option.
The left masks everything they do in equality of outcome, but that's not what they really want. They always want someone to suffer, whether they openly admit it or not. There is always a Peter that must be robbed to pay for Paul.
Equality of outcome is impossible, for many, many factors. Equality of opportunity is the only real answer. But there is no graft in that, so it isn't the popular option.
Posted by: Gaff at April 18, 2015 11:03 AM (Lsl9L)
29
19 Stuff like this makes me seriously worry for our future. The delusional aspect of a vast part of the population is strong, and even when their beliefs get overturned by reality, they will frequently double down on "oh, it wasn't my fault that this failed, is capitalism/government/some other factor" as an excuse, never re-evaluating their base assumptions.
I was lucky that 9/11 caused me to pause and re do a lot of 'math' in my head of my assumptions of the world, right before college. So that when I went a lot of the shit they spouted went one ear in out the other, or at least made me weight what theories they espoused against evidence from living in reality and see what made sense and what was bullshit.
There was an astounding amount of bullshit. And since the public school system has completely failed to teach critical thinking anymore (oh, they say they do, but their idea of critical thinking is believe this or you're a hater/racist/sexist/etc), so many people fall into that trap.
God help us all.
https://youtu.be/UMRo5XCKddQ
Or
https://youtu.be/vD94dVu8lqQ
YMMV
I was lucky that 9/11 caused me to pause and re do a lot of 'math' in my head of my assumptions of the world, right before college. So that when I went a lot of the shit they spouted went one ear in out the other, or at least made me weight what theories they espoused against evidence from living in reality and see what made sense and what was bullshit.
There was an astounding amount of bullshit. And since the public school system has completely failed to teach critical thinking anymore (oh, they say they do, but their idea of critical thinking is believe this or you're a hater/racist/sexist/etc), so many people fall into that trap.
God help us all.
https://youtu.be/UMRo5XCKddQ
Or
https://youtu.be/vD94dVu8lqQ
YMMV
Posted by: Weirddave at April 18, 2015 11:04 AM (WvS3w)
30
Posted by: sven10077 at April 18, 2015 11:03 AM (/4AZU)
I wonder if the Horde could fund a Vault...
I wonder if the Horde could fund a Vault...
Posted by: Cato the Rebel Without a Party at April 18, 2015 11:06 AM (3HxZe)
31
30 Posted by: Cato the Rebel Without a Party at April 18, 2015 11:06 AM (3HxZe)
With a kickstater and some resolve we could FOUND one...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ark_Two_Shelter
With a kickstater and some resolve we could FOUND one...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ark_Two_Shelter
Posted by: sven10077 at April 18, 2015 11:07 AM (/4AZU)
32
I could buy every house in Detroit.
Posted by: Mau Mau at April 18, 2015 11:07 AM (W5DcG)
33
weirdflunkyonatablet : sorry to hear that.
Posted by: boulder terlit hobo at April 18, 2015 11:07 AM (rAeZm)
34
I am looking for some land in Montana if we stay in America or Saskatchewan if we go to the "Land of the Big Eh"...
Posted by: sven10077 at April 18, 2015 11:08 AM (/4AZU)
35
Heh,
I don't know how many times I've made an offer to buy a car and the seller comes back with I can't sell it for less than $X because $X is what I owe. And I say well that's fine and good that you owe $X but the car is worth $Y, good luck.
I don't know how many times I've made an offer to buy a car and the seller comes back with I can't sell it for less than $X because $X is what I owe. And I say well that's fine and good that you owe $X but the car is worth $Y, good luck.
Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at April 18, 2015 11:08 AM (0LHZx)
36
Craig's List is not giving a value for the car, they are giving an asking price. The big price might be $9000. The difference is "the spread". The sales price is what "the value" is for that situation. It would probably be closer to the Blue Book value. 20% off the ask price is fairly standard I'd estimate.
Posted by: Illiniwek at April 18, 2015 11:08 AM (QGjci)
37
bid price I meant, not big
Posted by: Illiniwek at April 18, 2015 11:09 AM (QGjci)
38
25 Posted by: weirdflunkyonatablet at April 18, 2015 11:02 AM (1jJbj)
My sympathies...
it used to be that running into the wall of failure knocked the edges off the indoctrination...
now they just get more shrill...
check out my tweetline from yesterday with "Regan" an Aussie chick who calls white "mayo stains" and is whiter than I am...
I'm indian enough I am a little darker than most folk especially in the summer.
My sympathies...
it used to be that running into the wall of failure knocked the edges off the indoctrination...
now they just get more shrill...
check out my tweetline from yesterday with "Regan" an Aussie chick who calls white "mayo stains" and is whiter than I am...
I'm indian enough I am a little darker than most folk especially in the summer.
Posted by: sven10077 at April 18, 2015 11:10 AM (/4AZU)
39
Posted by: sven10077 at April 18, 2015 11:07 AM (/4AZU)
Could probably do something like that with steel shippng containers. Power would be trickier, unless geothermal was an option, and the number of good choices goes way down unless those miniature nuclear reactors or the fusion reactors that Lockheed-Martin promised within the next 10 years pan out
Could probably do something like that with steel shippng containers. Power would be trickier, unless geothermal was an option, and the number of good choices goes way down unless those miniature nuclear reactors or the fusion reactors that Lockheed-Martin promised within the next 10 years pan out
Posted by: Cato the Rebel Without a Party at April 18, 2015 11:10 AM (3HxZe)
40
37 Posted by: Illiniwek at April 18, 2015 11:09 AM (QGjci)
I call it "gap" but yeah....
I am using Zillow to winnow out bad gap on Butte real estate...
there are people asking 50 grand more than their appraisals let alone the value.
I call it "gap" but yeah....
I am using Zillow to winnow out bad gap on Butte real estate...
there are people asking 50 grand more than their appraisals let alone the value.
Posted by: sven10077 at April 18, 2015 11:11 AM (/4AZU)
41
Having a car worth less than what you owe is a direct result of 5 year loans. Never finance a car for more than 3 years. In fact, don't finance a car at all. I haven't financed a car since 1983 and I paid it off in 2 years anyway.
Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at April 18, 2015 11:11 AM (wlDny)
42
Solution:
Smack 'im over the head with a shovel - call it the Shovel Of Reality
1) If done right, almost same level of pain (i.e., Reality), but less permanent-marking ("relatively"- speaking)(DYSWIDT?), 'specially in case the gendarmes drop by.
2) Strong(er) chance for Big to survive/still manage to function above veg-level, at least long enough to either exhibit actual sentient, real-world thought and behavior, or to demonstrate need for repeat treatment (with, perhaps, a bit greater intensity[?] - Let Your Conscience [and his behavior/statements] Be Your Guide)
Utilizing the Axe Of Reality right-up-front both tends to become terminal right-up-front, and thereby may well be usefully-corrective for your frustration level (momentarily, anyway) but doesn't really assist much with his frustration level, not to mention his continuing life's-education.
You're welcome -
I'm all about the Solution...
Smack 'im over the head with a shovel - call it the Shovel Of Reality
1) If done right, almost same level of pain (i.e., Reality), but less permanent-marking ("relatively"- speaking)(DYSWIDT?), 'specially in case the gendarmes drop by.
2) Strong(er) chance for Big to survive/still manage to function above veg-level, at least long enough to either exhibit actual sentient, real-world thought and behavior, or to demonstrate need for repeat treatment (with, perhaps, a bit greater intensity[?] - Let Your Conscience [and his behavior/statements] Be Your Guide)
Utilizing the Axe Of Reality right-up-front both tends to become terminal right-up-front, and thereby may well be usefully-corrective for your frustration level (momentarily, anyway) but doesn't really assist much with his frustration level, not to mention his continuing life's-education.
You're welcome -
I'm all about the Solution...
Posted by: J.S.Bridges at April 18, 2015 11:12 AM (DsGWS)
43
39 Posted by: Cato the Rebel Without a Party at April 18, 2015 11:10 AM (3HxZe)
Quite...
I have a business plan...maybe...
ConEx RV physical plant manufacture is a part of it...
You can get around the power quandry a bit by having a solar farm and yacht batteries as power sinks through trickle charge....
Propane for refrigeration and you're on your way.
Quite...
I have a business plan...maybe...
ConEx RV physical plant manufacture is a part of it...
You can get around the power quandry a bit by having a solar farm and yacht batteries as power sinks through trickle charge....
Propane for refrigeration and you're on your way.
Posted by: sven10077 at April 18, 2015 11:12 AM (/4AZU)
44
29
Eh, we're all just preaching to the converted here.
All I'm saying is I feel like things are getting worse, and will probably continue to until whatever collapse the system cannot sustain or hide through number fudging occurs. And the Democrats or Republicans aren't going to care who they have to consume to 'fix' the problems the mob & left demand they hang for it. Not that it actually will. Locusts rarely know how to grow crops, only consume them. 'Bad luck' and what not.
Eh, we're all just preaching to the converted here.
All I'm saying is I feel like things are getting worse, and will probably continue to until whatever collapse the system cannot sustain or hide through number fudging occurs. And the Democrats or Republicans aren't going to care who they have to consume to 'fix' the problems the mob & left demand they hang for it. Not that it actually will. Locusts rarely know how to grow crops, only consume them. 'Bad luck' and what not.
Posted by: Gaff at April 18, 2015 11:14 AM (Lsl9L)
45
Look up what's going on in Quebec right now regarding students "striking" for, well, nobody's very sure why. Against "austerity"? Pro-union? They're leftist idiots?
Posted by: PiperPaul at April 18, 2015 11:14 AM (vhm6I)
46
40 there are people asking 50 grand more than their appraisals let alone the value.
Posted by: sven10077 at April 18, 2015 11:11 AM (/4AZU)
Appraisals are a racket here. If you want to know what your house will be appraised for go down to the county tax assessor and look at what the last house in your neighborhood sold for. It doesn't matter what is different about your house. And that price will be directly dependent on what people think about the quality of the closest elementary school.
Posted by: sven10077 at April 18, 2015 11:11 AM (/4AZU)
Appraisals are a racket here. If you want to know what your house will be appraised for go down to the county tax assessor and look at what the last house in your neighborhood sold for. It doesn't matter what is different about your house. And that price will be directly dependent on what people think about the quality of the closest elementary school.
Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at April 18, 2015 11:15 AM (wlDny)
47
Big is driving me so batty I blocked his number from my phone for a week. I'm still trying to figure out how his situation is "all my fault". Ii guess because I didn't have an abortion when I found myself accidentally pregnant.
In the meantime, Dave is spending about $1000 to house him and pay all of his bills.
In the meantime, Dave is spending about $1000 to house him and pay all of his bills.
Posted by: Gingy at April 18, 2015 11:15 AM (WvS3w)
48
Look up what's going on in Quebec right now regarding students
"striking" for, well, nobody's very sure why. Against "austerity"?
Pro-union? They're leftist idiots?
Posted by: PiperPaul at April 18, 2015 11:14 AM (vhm6I)
Three for three.
Look up what's going on in Quebec right now regarding students
"striking" for, well, nobody's very sure why. Against "austerity"?
Pro-union? They're leftist idiots?
Posted by: PiperPaul at April 18, 2015 11:14 AM (vhm6I)
Three for three.
Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at April 18, 2015 11:16 AM (Do5OK)
49
I'm glad we have many years before this, our littles will be homefarm schooled for as long as we can (meaning I think my three year old will be ready for college well before college age, luckily he gets that from mom) and by then hopefully a work around for "going off to college" will be viable. I just don't remember it being that bad in 98 when I graduated our 01 when I finished MBA school.
Posted by: traye at April 18, 2015 11:17 AM (0qtL0)
50
46 Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at April 18, 2015 11:15 AM (wlDny)
We've discussed at length what I think of appraisals....
I think there should be an Amendment that the govt *has* to give you what it is appraised at within 60 days of appraisal if owner is inclined.
Trust me plenty of places just tack on 10% hikes like clockwork.
We've discussed at length what I think of appraisals....
I think there should be an Amendment that the govt *has* to give you what it is appraised at within 60 days of appraisal if owner is inclined.
Trust me plenty of places just tack on 10% hikes like clockwork.
Posted by: sven10077 at April 18, 2015 11:17 AM (/4AZU)
51
Kid 2 came home in tears because some kids in school called her a bully for telling them to pipe down when the math teacher was talking. Genuinely worried she was a bully, we went through the litany of what real bullies do.
It is amazing how much of life's natural bullshit is now being classified as bullying. I told her some people are idiots, most kids know nothing, and to not buy into the whole victim mentality.
It is amazing how much of life's natural bullshit is now being classified as bullying. I told her some people are idiots, most kids know nothing, and to not buy into the whole victim mentality.
Posted by: tms at April 18, 2015 11:17 AM (gQHeD)
Posted by: econ undergrad at April 18, 2015 11:17 AM (KZ+ah)
53
The delusional aspect of a vast part of the population is strong,
*****
The other aspect of this that my wife and I have noticed is the notion that for any given delusional belief system there is a ready-made "delusion confirmation chamber" (what with the Internet and various and sundry support groups) that will reinforce the belief contrary to any factual evidence. The need to weigh various sources of information and assign a reality-based value to each piece (in order to make a coherent whole) is swept aside by the enthusiastic support of fellow travelers. (talk about devaluation, eh?)
This applies to politics, social issues (race, gender, orientation), pretty much everything. We see it with single-issue medical parent support groups. Sometimes to a scary degree. Frankly wrong information is accepted prima facie if it supports the individual's bias.
*****
The other aspect of this that my wife and I have noticed is the notion that for any given delusional belief system there is a ready-made "delusion confirmation chamber" (what with the Internet and various and sundry support groups) that will reinforce the belief contrary to any factual evidence. The need to weigh various sources of information and assign a reality-based value to each piece (in order to make a coherent whole) is swept aside by the enthusiastic support of fellow travelers. (talk about devaluation, eh?)
This applies to politics, social issues (race, gender, orientation), pretty much everything. We see it with single-issue medical parent support groups. Sometimes to a scary degree. Frankly wrong information is accepted prima facie if it supports the individual's bias.
Posted by: Muldoon, a solid man at April 18, 2015 11:18 AM (NeFrd)
54
52 Posted by: econ undergrad at April 18, 2015 11:17 AM (KZ+ah)
econ for kindergarten is pretty advanced for the Kos types...
we're trying o be a public service here...your prof explained why we still need to tax if Barry's buds can't print trillions in funny money yet?
econ for kindergarten is pretty advanced for the Kos types...
we're trying o be a public service here...your prof explained why we still need to tax if Barry's buds can't print trillions in funny money yet?
Posted by: sven10077 at April 18, 2015 11:19 AM (/4AZU)
55
So does Big have any education at all, beyond high school? Maybe the answer is to get him into a trade school.
Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at April 18, 2015 11:19 AM (Do5OK)
Posted by: Muldoon, a solid man at April 18, 2015 11:20 AM (NeFrd)
57
Craig's List is not giving a value for the car, they are giving an asking price. The big price might be $9000. The difference is "the spread". The sales price is what "the value" is for that situation. It would probably be closer to the Blue Book value. 20% off the ask price is fairly standard I'd estimate.
You know, I do realize this, but I was writing to illustrate a concept, not to delineate all of the ins and outs of buying and selling on Craigslist.
Seriously, WTF is your problem? Even though I've acknowledged everything you say as 100% true, what does it have to do with the subject at hand?
You know, I do realize this, but I was writing to illustrate a concept, not to delineate all of the ins and outs of buying and selling on Craigslist.
Seriously, WTF is your problem? Even though I've acknowledged everything you say as 100% true, what does it have to do with the subject at hand?
Posted by: Weirddave at April 18, 2015 11:21 AM (WvS3w)
58
50 Trust me plenty of places just tack on 10% hikes like clockwork.
Posted by: sven10077 at April 18, 2015 11:17 AM (/4AZU)
You can challenge tax appraisals here and the county hates that crap. So they appraise houses artificially low to keep people from challenging it. My house is right at 1600 sf. The most recent houses here sold for about 110/sf. My house is appraised at $60K for tax purposes so I would be crazy to challenge it.
By law they reassess every 5 years here.
Posted by: sven10077 at April 18, 2015 11:17 AM (/4AZU)
You can challenge tax appraisals here and the county hates that crap. So they appraise houses artificially low to keep people from challenging it. My house is right at 1600 sf. The most recent houses here sold for about 110/sf. My house is appraised at $60K for tax purposes so I would be crazy to challenge it.
By law they reassess every 5 years here.
Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at April 18, 2015 11:21 AM (wlDny)
59
How many times when a ballplayer signs a big contract do we hear from proggies; "how come we can pay Pablo Sandoval millions to play a game while we pay teachers peanuts!"
First of all, "WE" aren't paying Sandoval shit, the Boston Red Sox decided that his talent for hitting a 95 mph fastball and playing a position that is not overloaded with talent is worth it.
Second, there are only a few thousand men who can either throw or hit a baseball at 95 mph while there are over a million people who can become a teacher. You don't even have to be good at teaching to get paid and praised.
Only 1 in a million men can do what Pablo Sandoval can do.
Any asshole can be a teacher.
Supply and Demand
First of all, "WE" aren't paying Sandoval shit, the Boston Red Sox decided that his talent for hitting a 95 mph fastball and playing a position that is not overloaded with talent is worth it.
Second, there are only a few thousand men who can either throw or hit a baseball at 95 mph while there are over a million people who can become a teacher. You don't even have to be good at teaching to get paid and praised.
Only 1 in a million men can do what Pablo Sandoval can do.
Any asshole can be a teacher.
Supply and Demand
Posted by: kbdabear at April 18, 2015 11:22 AM (GrXXa)
60
If you take your car to a title-loan shop, what source do they use to determine how much they will loan on the old heap?
Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at April 18, 2015 11:22 AM (Do5OK)
61
I'm on a similar quest with a younger friend of mine whom I've known since he was in HS. He's now staring down the barrel of 40 and is slowly beginning to come around. I've chronicled my talks with him here many times.
After a recent gig, we started discussing money over a couple of beers. He started out spouting the same leftarded bullshit I know his wife shovels at him.
He became quiet when I told him, "Money is like fire: you can use it for good or evil. It's your choice."
Then I lobbed this one at him: "There are a lot of good people doing good things with money all the time. You just never hear about it."
More silence. Then I smelled wood burning and heard gears engaging. I know I'm getting through to him, but it sure is taking a long time. I guess that's as it should be because that's how it is.
After a recent gig, we started discussing money over a couple of beers. He started out spouting the same leftarded bullshit I know his wife shovels at him.
He became quiet when I told him, "Money is like fire: you can use it for good or evil. It's your choice."
Then I lobbed this one at him: "There are a lot of good people doing good things with money all the time. You just never hear about it."
More silence. Then I smelled wood burning and heard gears engaging. I know I'm getting through to him, but it sure is taking a long time. I guess that's as it should be because that's how it is.
Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this sh1t at April 18, 2015 11:23 AM (0HooB)
62
In the meantime, Dave is spending about $1000 to house him and pay all of his bills.
Posted by: Gingy at April 18, 2015 11:15 AM (WvS3w)
Mail him a bus ticket to the Bakken, wire him $1000 and ask him to write when he finds work?
My dad was an attorney, I could never out-argue him. My mom was a teacher, I could never out-stubborn her. My earliest memories are of Dad saying he could trade me in on a pony. I had visions of being stuck in a paddock somewhere.
Posted by: Gingy at April 18, 2015 11:15 AM (WvS3w)
Mail him a bus ticket to the Bakken, wire him $1000 and ask him to write when he finds work?
My dad was an attorney, I could never out-argue him. My mom was a teacher, I could never out-stubborn her. My earliest memories are of Dad saying he could trade me in on a pony. I had visions of being stuck in a paddock somewhere.
Posted by: Kindltot at April 18, 2015 11:24 AM (t//F+)
63
Unless you are in a STEM discipline your college degree might not be worth what you think it's worth. I had opportunity to come across such snowflakes when I hired people. The "but I went to ______ and got a degree in ________" meant nothing to me. I will hire you at X and you will show me what you've got. Some of the best people I hired were not degreed people and the all time worst was an entitled minority from a HBU. He was one of the stupidest people I have ever come across. I question why I am paying 30k per year to send the boy away to college when, hopefully, one day my business will be his. I am still on the fence. I am pushing him toward accounting because it has real world applications. Any degree ending in "arts" is worth more as toilet paper IMHO.
Posted by: Teddy Morningwood at April 18, 2015 11:25 AM (fLKzW)
64
Why does the difference between Kelly Blue Book and Craigslist matter?
Because insurance companies and auto loan companies use KBB to determine the value of your car should you wreck it or want to finance it.
Because insurance companies and auto loan companies use KBB to determine the value of your car should you wreck it or want to finance it.
Posted by: kbdabear at April 18, 2015 11:26 AM (GrXXa)
65
The most liberating thing you can say to your kid is "no."
Posted by: Count de Monet at April 18, 2015 11:26 AM (JO9+V)
66
Unions are just messing with the labor supply side, to increase "the value" of the labor. On the other side, anti-trust laws are to prevent a few companies from messing with the supply side to the market place, by cornering the market. Lobbyists are messing with the price side by getting carve outs that allow them to sell below the competitor, or by getting the EPA to put some energy companies out of business, for example.
So it is not really just about value being what someone is willing to pay. We are willing to pay $5/gallon for gas, but prefer to make deals with Saudis and fight wars to try to make the supply flow "freely".
We're willing to pay more for clothing, but are glad to get it cheaply by trading our clothing producers to China for cheaper stuff. Same for all the electronic manufacturing.
The global implications of trading with enemies is clear, as we fight wars and China builds their military. Domestically we fight similar wars, where we allow illegals to come in and "subsidize" the hospitality industry, and the lawn care and nanny work, and half of construction. All laws mess with "value", especially when laws are selectively not upheld.
Value really has to include more than "what someone is willing to pay", all that is a good foundational theoretical point. We have to ask how much we are paying in subsidy for those cheap Chinese products, or Saudi and Russian oil, when that is funding our geopolitical enemies.
So it is not really just about value being what someone is willing to pay. We are willing to pay $5/gallon for gas, but prefer to make deals with Saudis and fight wars to try to make the supply flow "freely".
We're willing to pay more for clothing, but are glad to get it cheaply by trading our clothing producers to China for cheaper stuff. Same for all the electronic manufacturing.
The global implications of trading with enemies is clear, as we fight wars and China builds their military. Domestically we fight similar wars, where we allow illegals to come in and "subsidize" the hospitality industry, and the lawn care and nanny work, and half of construction. All laws mess with "value", especially when laws are selectively not upheld.
Value really has to include more than "what someone is willing to pay", all that is a good foundational theoretical point. We have to ask how much we are paying in subsidy for those cheap Chinese products, or Saudi and Russian oil, when that is funding our geopolitical enemies.
Posted by: Illiniwek at April 18, 2015 11:26 AM (QGjci)
67
In the meantime, Dave is spending about $1000 to house him and pay all of his bills.
More than that, actually. Every month. I wonder what the threshold is where I get to the "maybe I should listen to him" point.
More than that, actually. Every month. I wonder what the threshold is where I get to the "maybe I should listen to him" point.
Posted by: Weirddave at April 18, 2015 11:26 AM (WvS3w)
68
32
I could buy every house in Detroit.
As could I - or almost any actual wage-earning inDUHvidual in the U.S.of A. that's not on probation or an illegal alien or some other sort of low-end butthead - but whyinhell would any of us want to do so?
All you'd get is a whole lot of property-taxation and other assorted aggravation from Big Gubment bureaucraps and mucho random political a**h**es, plus a major corner on large cockroaches, druggies and near-terminal winos, with a few arsonists thrown in.
Not advisable...
I could buy every house in Detroit.
As could I - or almost any actual wage-earning inDUHvidual in the U.S.of A. that's not on probation or an illegal alien or some other sort of low-end butthead - but whyinhell would any of us want to do so?
All you'd get is a whole lot of property-taxation and other assorted aggravation from Big Gubment bureaucraps and mucho random political a**h**es, plus a major corner on large cockroaches, druggies and near-terminal winos, with a few arsonists thrown in.
Not advisable...
Posted by: J.S.Bridges at April 18, 2015 11:27 AM (DsGWS)
69
Oh good. We are talking about money. That is right in my wheelhouse.
Posted by: Mr Poo Poo at April 18, 2015 11:29 AM (fLKzW)
70
Yesterday, a co-worker was ranting about how much baseball players make. I said, "yes, it seems ridiculous, but that's how much someone is willing to pay them." Co-worker: "But it's not worth $50 or $100 million to throw a ball." Me: "But I guess it it is because that's what someone is willing to pay them." Co-worker: "But that's not right! Teachers should make that much!"
Me: "But nobody is willing to pay teachers $50 million - and given the number of teachers in the US as compared to the number of pro baseball players, it wouldn't be economically feasible to pay teachers that much."
Co-worker: But it's not fair!
Me: Oh, whatevs.
Me: "But nobody is willing to pay teachers $50 million - and given the number of teachers in the US as compared to the number of pro baseball players, it wouldn't be economically feasible to pay teachers that much."
Co-worker: But it's not fair!
Me: Oh, whatevs.
Posted by: Donna &&&&&& V. (brandishing ampersands) at April 18, 2015 11:30 AM (+XMAD)
71
The way to get through to kids is in subtle ways.
Example: one of my kids was watching a Netflix movie, can't remember the name but it's about animals in the jungle in India. They're all pissed off because their jungle is getting cut down. So my daughter says something like daddy, why do they have to ciut down all the trees, the animals won't have a home anymore. And I said, yeah true, but think of what all those trees will be used for...building houses, making furniture, making paper. I didn't start ranting about stupid environmentalists or shit like that. I just gave her the other side of the story which I'm sure the movie left out.
And then I also told her that the best way to manage a forest is to cut trees that we need, but then also plant new trees so that we don't run out of trees. And she got that, it made sense. Just a little plant in her head so that when the inevitable SJW tells her cutting trees is evil, she will hopefully be able to know why the SJW is full of shit.
Example: one of my kids was watching a Netflix movie, can't remember the name but it's about animals in the jungle in India. They're all pissed off because their jungle is getting cut down. So my daughter says something like daddy, why do they have to ciut down all the trees, the animals won't have a home anymore. And I said, yeah true, but think of what all those trees will be used for...building houses, making furniture, making paper. I didn't start ranting about stupid environmentalists or shit like that. I just gave her the other side of the story which I'm sure the movie left out.
And then I also told her that the best way to manage a forest is to cut trees that we need, but then also plant new trees so that we don't run out of trees. And she got that, it made sense. Just a little plant in her head so that when the inevitable SJW tells her cutting trees is evil, she will hopefully be able to know why the SJW is full of shit.
Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at April 18, 2015 11:30 AM (0LHZx)
72
I'm indian enough I am a little darker than most folk especially in the summer.
My black heritage means I tan well too.
My black heritage means I tan well too.
Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this sh1t at April 18, 2015 11:31 AM (0HooB)
73
Posted by: kbdabear at April 18, 2015 11:22 AM (GrXXa)
I posted my comment above before I saw yours. You summed it up better than I did.
I posted my comment above before I saw yours. You summed it up better than I did.
Posted by: Donna &&&&&& V. (brandishing ampersands) at April 18, 2015 11:31 AM (+XMAD)
74
How about a grownup discussion instead of talking down?
Posted by: econ undergrad at April 18, 2015 11:17 AM (KZ+ah)
Fine
http://tinyurl.com/MWPriceFloors
And a follow up: If Noble Prize winning economist Paul Krugman openly states that central intervention and direction of markets is inefficient and unsustainable, yet declares some intervention is essential for the good of the society, is he involved in special pleading to allow dictatorial powers, is he declaring that society performs better when forced to be inefficient, or is he just stating that caring and economic well being is by definition inefficient?
Posted by: econ undergrad at April 18, 2015 11:17 AM (KZ+ah)
Fine
http://tinyurl.com/MWPriceFloors
And a follow up: If Noble Prize winning economist Paul Krugman openly states that central intervention and direction of markets is inefficient and unsustainable, yet declares some intervention is essential for the good of the society, is he involved in special pleading to allow dictatorial powers, is he declaring that society performs better when forced to be inefficient, or is he just stating that caring and economic well being is by definition inefficient?
Posted by: Kindltot at April 18, 2015 11:31 AM (t//F+)
75
It's a small sample,but a lot of the college kids I know are leaning libertarian. I have conservatarian leanings myself. It's way better than knee-jerk progtard, but I think my son may be taking it too far. Over Easter, he spewed some anti-Israel, "it's all America's fault" crap at me.
I don't think he's a Paul acolyte, but that garbage he's reading somewhere is at the weirdo Losertarian intersection where the Ronulans and the progs meet.
His basic values are good, but I'm gonna have to have some talks with that boy to see what's up.
I don't think he's a Paul acolyte, but that garbage he's reading somewhere is at the weirdo Losertarian intersection where the Ronulans and the progs meet.
His basic values are good, but I'm gonna have to have some talks with that boy to see what's up.
Posted by: stace at April 18, 2015 11:31 AM (ImzkZ)
76
You need to go deeper.... and look at ... money.
A dollar is nothing more than a piece of paper, and trust.
TRUST that it is worth something...
And without that trust, the dollar is indeed, just a piece of paper...
Which is why the Fed Res Bank, and Quantitative Easing is so evil IMO... because by creating dollars out of thin air, and using it to buy REAL assets... they are eroding the very trust of the Dollar...
A dollar is nothing more than a piece of paper, and trust.
TRUST that it is worth something...
And without that trust, the dollar is indeed, just a piece of paper...
Which is why the Fed Res Bank, and Quantitative Easing is so evil IMO... because by creating dollars out of thin air, and using it to buy REAL assets... they are eroding the very trust of the Dollar...
Posted by: BB Wolf at April 18, 2015 11:32 AM (qh617)
77
Probably tough to reprogram because you have to get over the desire for "fairness" that is so dang popular today (thanks, Obama and Dems!!).
Just curious: has your kid worked a minimum wage job - retail, food service, that sort of thing?
I think part of the problem w/the minimum wage debate is that it's cast as if it's a career job, as if there's no movement within the organization. When you've worked at a shop, etc. you see that people come and go (transitional job) and also that those around you aren't making mega-salaries just because they're an assistant manager/supervisor; there's no magical treasure chest where the greedy owner is ruthlessly hiding fabulous profits from his/her staff.
Just curious: has your kid worked a minimum wage job - retail, food service, that sort of thing?
I think part of the problem w/the minimum wage debate is that it's cast as if it's a career job, as if there's no movement within the organization. When you've worked at a shop, etc. you see that people come and go (transitional job) and also that those around you aren't making mega-salaries just because they're an assistant manager/supervisor; there's no magical treasure chest where the greedy owner is ruthlessly hiding fabulous profits from his/her staff.
Posted by: Lizzy at April 18, 2015 11:32 AM (2TN4k)
78
Laughing at DiCaprio, eco warrior, who took 6 round trip flights on private jet to NYC in a month, costing $200k. To add insult to injury, I doubt he paid for it, most likely, it was billed to some phony foundation.
Laughing at DiCaprio, eco warrior, who took 6 round trip flights on private jet to NYC in a month, costing $200k. To add insult to injury, I doubt he paid for it, most likely, it was billed to some phony foundation.
Posted by: Bruce J. at April 18, 2015 11:33 AM (iQIUe)
79
Generally nobody will finance any used car for more than 80% of wholesale cost.
Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at April 18, 2015 11:33 AM (wlDny)
80
My example, which although recently cited I will repeat: what's a glass of water worth?
To a man dying of thirst in the desert?
To a man drowning in a fresh water lake?
To a man dying of thirst in the desert?
To a man drowning in a fresh water lake?
Posted by: Jay Guevara at April 18, 2015 11:35 AM (oKE6c)
81
The concept is "Perceived Value". A good way to teach that to kids is assign different amounts to different (non essential/core) chores.
Craig's List is the asking price not the getting price. Good thing to teach kids too. Bargaining and knowing the value of things. Latter being a life long learning project.
Start early or you will have idiotic prigs under the roof.
Craig's List is the asking price not the getting price. Good thing to teach kids too. Bargaining and knowing the value of things. Latter being a life long learning project.
Start early or you will have idiotic prigs under the roof.
Posted by: S at April 18, 2015 11:36 AM (O7Swd)
82
BTW, WeirdDave, excellent post. I've come to look forward to your weekend posts, even if I don't always have time to comment.
Posted by: Donna &&&&&& V. (brandishing ampersands) at April 18, 2015 11:36 AM (+XMAD)
83
Which is why the Fed Res Bank, and Quantitative Easing is so evil IMO... because by creating dollars out of thin air, and using it to buy REAL assets... they are eroding the very trust of the Dollar...
And to return to WeirdDave's original point, they're removing the value of said dollar.
The mere fact that Fedzilla is printing money instead of creating a favorable atmosphere for generating wealth proves its economic illiteracy.
And to return to WeirdDave's original point, they're removing the value of said dollar.
The mere fact that Fedzilla is printing money instead of creating a favorable atmosphere for generating wealth proves its economic illiteracy.
Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this sh1t at April 18, 2015 11:37 AM (0HooB)
84
59
<snips>
Only 1 in a million men can do what Pablo Sandoval can do.
Any asshole can be a teacher.
Supply and Demand
Posted by: kbdabear
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^This^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
The workforce is like a ladder.
Initially you are on the bottom rung with your book learning.
Your first jobs teach you the skills of promptness, respect and authority.
If you learn you move up the experience ladder and get paid more.
Depending on the type of work you do determines pay.
Basket weaving is not a good career choice even if there is demand.
<snips>
Only 1 in a million men can do what Pablo Sandoval can do.
Any asshole can be a teacher.
Supply and Demand
Posted by: kbdabear
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^This^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
The workforce is like a ladder.
Initially you are on the bottom rung with your book learning.
Your first jobs teach you the skills of promptness, respect and authority.
If you learn you move up the experience ladder and get paid more.
Depending on the type of work you do determines pay.
Basket weaving is not a good career choice even if there is demand.
Posted by: Gmac- Pulling in feelers in preperation... at April 18, 2015 11:37 AM (4CRfK)
85
52 "delusion confirmation chamber"
Yes, I've noticed that, too. In the past, kooks would eventually have to confront reality and deal with it mostly because they were (relatively) isolated. Now, they have a worldwide support, cheering and encouragement group egging-on their delusions and appealing to their narcissism and calling them "heroes" for bad behavior.
Yes, I've noticed that, too. In the past, kooks would eventually have to confront reality and deal with it mostly because they were (relatively) isolated. Now, they have a worldwide support, cheering and encouragement group egging-on their delusions and appealing to their narcissism and calling them "heroes" for bad behavior.
Posted by: PiperPaul at April 18, 2015 11:38 AM (vhm6I)
86
Never pay for non-STEM or non-Vocational tech degree. never.
There are still non-libtard Universities out there ... you don't have to be a Mormon to study at BYU.
And have the kid get his non-degree related prerequisites completed at a rural community college first ... if he or she can't get good grades there, tell him to join the military.
There are still non-libtard Universities out there ... you don't have to be a Mormon to study at BYU.
And have the kid get his non-degree related prerequisites completed at a rural community college first ... if he or she can't get good grades there, tell him to join the military.
Posted by: Kristophr at April 18, 2015 11:38 AM (6fIOn)
87
"Seriously, WTF is your problem? Even though I've acknowledged everything
you say as 100% true, what does it have to do with the subject at hand?" weirdDave
sorry, I thought I was just adding a point ... and you were clearly not differentiating bid and ask, at first at least.
You do call it "fundamental concepts", but a discussion then expounds on that, right? Isn't that the point ... to discuss, elaborate? You seem to be the one with "the problem" with that.
you say as 100% true, what does it have to do with the subject at hand?" weirdDave
sorry, I thought I was just adding a point ... and you were clearly not differentiating bid and ask, at first at least.
You do call it "fundamental concepts", but a discussion then expounds on that, right? Isn't that the point ... to discuss, elaborate? You seem to be the one with "the problem" with that.
Posted by: Illiniwek at April 18, 2015 11:39 AM (QGjci)
88
I don't know if this will help at all but I tell my three year old when he hears "fair" on a kids show, "we don't say fair and we don't say can't in this house." I mean it too, he can cuss like a sailor (or his sailor dad ) but will not say those words.
Also if be drops something or knocks something over and says "it fell," I say "politicians say it fell, here we take responsibility for our actions and say I dropped it or I knocked it over."
Also if be drops something or knocks something over and says "it fell," I say "politicians say it fell, here we take responsibility for our actions and say I dropped it or I knocked it over."
Posted by: traye at April 18, 2015 11:40 AM (SYT5X)
89
14 The "Team Hillary" Chipolte pre-trip planning vid. is worth a spin. Pretty funny.
Posted by: Brave Sir Robin at April 18, 2015 10:53 AM (5buP
Link?
Posted by: Brave Sir Robin at April 18, 2015 10:53 AM (5buP
Link?
Posted by: m at April 18, 2015 11:40 AM (WIUGG)
90
#44 I'm liking the locust comment. That's probably the most apt description of the left I've ever heard. They never build/create, they only destroy/consume. They're loud and obnoxious. They never attack individually, but rather as a swarm. They breed abundantly and are nomadic, traveling from one target to the next, leaving only when that target has been completely devastated. There's a reason they were chosen as one of the biblical plagues.
The good news is, I guess, that when the SHTF, they're also edible and quite tasty (from what I hear).
The good news is, I guess, that when the SHTF, they're also edible and quite tasty (from what I hear).
Posted by: smaulz at April 18, 2015 11:41 AM (AbcTu)
91
Bruce J:
Foundations are how rich people avoid tax rape. If you ever get ahead in life, I suggest starting a trust, or if rich enough, a foundation.
A trust is a good option, even for upper middle class folks. A family farm placed in a trust isn't broken up and taxed on the farmer's death.
Foundations are how rich people avoid tax rape. If you ever get ahead in life, I suggest starting a trust, or if rich enough, a foundation.
A trust is a good option, even for upper middle class folks. A family farm placed in a trust isn't broken up and taxed on the farmer's death.
Posted by: Kristophr at April 18, 2015 11:41 AM (6fIOn)
92
Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at April 18, 2015 11:30 AM (0LHZx)
If you want her to learn more in depth, you can tell her that sometimes cutting trees is actually good for the animals who live in the grasslands,which are much more endangered in the US than forests. Here in TX, removing invasive trees from the prairies saves animal habitat (as well as grazing land for cattle).
Back when W was president,the lefties were always making fun of his cedar chopping. They are ecological illiterates. They had no idea that he and Mrs Bush were restoring tall grass prairie and the quail and other animals that can't live where the cedar (ashe juniper) takes over.
If you want her to learn more in depth, you can tell her that sometimes cutting trees is actually good for the animals who live in the grasslands,which are much more endangered in the US than forests. Here in TX, removing invasive trees from the prairies saves animal habitat (as well as grazing land for cattle).
Back when W was president,the lefties were always making fun of his cedar chopping. They are ecological illiterates. They had no idea that he and Mrs Bush were restoring tall grass prairie and the quail and other animals that can't live where the cedar (ashe juniper) takes over.
Posted by: stace at April 18, 2015 11:41 AM (ImzkZ)
93
All I'm saying is I feel like things are getting
worse, and will probably continue to until whatever collapse the system
cannot sustain or hide through number fudging occurs. And the Democrats
or Republicans aren't going to care who they have to consume to 'fix'
the problems the mob left demand they hang for it. Not that it
actually will. Locusts rarely know how to grow crops, only consume them.
'Bad luck' and what not.
Posted by: Gaff
On another blog, someone made a very good point, which I will try to remember and repeat here.
The Academics, and "leading thinkers" of our civilization have discarded the idea of Western Man and Western civilization, as it has grown and deverloped over the last few centuries. All the toil, effort, thought, and struggle is being thrown away to embrace Soviet Man, or Communist Man. Man as part of the collective, not as an individual (in - duh-vidual) with sovereign value, and natural rights.
Facebook, twitter, etc are all part of getting rid of privacy and destroying the idea of privacy. Privacy is a hallmark of Western civilization.
The intellectuals throw away the idea of Western Man because any rube on the street can say "fuck you!"to a leading intellectual, and unless they are 6 ft 5 and full of muscles, they can't stop it. But banding together, they are getting their way, and with the help of the stooges of the Media and politicians rapacious for power, influence and money, they are doing away with the philosophies of Western Man.
And that's why things will continue to get worse. Unless we can find a way to stop it. And I'm fresh out of practical ideas.
To foster an intellectual, philosophical and moral rennaisance, would require these ideas to be nurtured in.....the Academy. Which is held by the Leftists intent on destroying Western Man. So that's right out.
Which is why we need several truly classical liberal (modern conservative, to a degree) universities. There are a few, but small and scattered. Hillsdale College, a few others.
worse, and will probably continue to until whatever collapse the system
cannot sustain or hide through number fudging occurs. And the Democrats
or Republicans aren't going to care who they have to consume to 'fix'
the problems the mob left demand they hang for it. Not that it
actually will. Locusts rarely know how to grow crops, only consume them.
'Bad luck' and what not.
Posted by: Gaff
On another blog, someone made a very good point, which I will try to remember and repeat here.
The Academics, and "leading thinkers" of our civilization have discarded the idea of Western Man and Western civilization, as it has grown and deverloped over the last few centuries. All the toil, effort, thought, and struggle is being thrown away to embrace Soviet Man, or Communist Man. Man as part of the collective, not as an individual (in - duh-vidual) with sovereign value, and natural rights.
Facebook, twitter, etc are all part of getting rid of privacy and destroying the idea of privacy. Privacy is a hallmark of Western civilization.
The intellectuals throw away the idea of Western Man because any rube on the street can say "fuck you!"to a leading intellectual, and unless they are 6 ft 5 and full of muscles, they can't stop it. But banding together, they are getting their way, and with the help of the stooges of the Media and politicians rapacious for power, influence and money, they are doing away with the philosophies of Western Man.
And that's why things will continue to get worse. Unless we can find a way to stop it. And I'm fresh out of practical ideas.
To foster an intellectual, philosophical and moral rennaisance, would require these ideas to be nurtured in.....the Academy. Which is held by the Leftists intent on destroying Western Man. So that's right out.
Which is why we need several truly classical liberal (modern conservative, to a degree) universities. There are a few, but small and scattered. Hillsdale College, a few others.
Posted by: Bossy Conservative....lost in America at April 18, 2015 11:41 AM (+1T7c)
94
If you want to get really depressed re value, bring up "price gouging" and "ticket scalping." Even most conservatives whiff on those two. Price gouging? The demand for something just shot northwards, but people think that they should get it for the old price, because.
For my part, I want to buy Microsoft stock for the offering price at its IPO. You know, because.
For my part, I want to buy Microsoft stock for the offering price at its IPO. You know, because.
Posted by: Jay Guevara at April 18, 2015 11:42 AM (oKE6c)
95
I'd buy THAT for a dollar!
Posted by: Bixby Snyder at April 18, 2015 11:43 AM (JoIcn)
96
The good news is, I guess, that when the SHTF, they're also edible and quite tasty (from what I hear).
Only when disguised in chocolate. Or so I've heard.
I'd have to be extremely hungry (and out of squirrels) before I'd try anything like that.
Only when disguised in chocolate. Or so I've heard.
I'd have to be extremely hungry (and out of squirrels) before I'd try anything like that.
Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this sh1t at April 18, 2015 11:43 AM (0HooB)
97
Reminder that the information from Craigslist is what other people are ASKING for their car; if Kelley Blue Book still calculates their values like they did (mumble mumble) years ago then they looked at what people PAID for those vehicles. I also emphasize, and re-emphasize (as you did) that value is temporal and local. An aspect many people choose to ignore since they want their opinion to have value (see what I did?) nationally.
Posted by: ama at April 18, 2015 11:44 AM (l7h58)
98
And to return to WeirdDave's original point, they're removing the value of said dollar.
The mere fact that Fedzilla is printing money instead of creating a favorable atmosphere for generating wealth proves its economic illiteracy.
Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this sh1t at April 18, 2015 11:37 AM (0HooB)
Yup... they are debasing the very unit we use to keep score....
And its slow... its insidious... its... Progressive...
And to return to WeirdDave's original point, they're removing the value of said dollar.
The mere fact that Fedzilla is printing money instead of creating a favorable atmosphere for generating wealth proves its economic illiteracy.
Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this sh1t at April 18, 2015 11:37 AM (0HooB)
Yup... they are debasing the very unit we use to keep score....
And its slow... its insidious... its... Progressive...
Posted by: BB Wolf at April 18, 2015 11:44 AM (qh617)
99
Here's my question then, if this is so simple.
You have a car to sell, KBB says it's worth $10,400. You know this. You put a sign on the window of it that simply says "For sale."
Some chump comes along, says he likes the car's looks, wants to buy it from you, asks you how much. You say $45,000.
He says "that's too much, offers you $30,000." You "reluctantly" agree.
Is the car worth $30,000?
No, the car is worth $10,400, and your ability to cheat this stupid chump is worth $19,600. Call it semantics, but that's really what the anti-capitalists object to. You have more info, or you see somebody who more desperately needs what you are selling than you need to sell it, and the "value" changes, based on a principle that says it's every man for himself!
Which works fine, if everybody is honest. But everyone is not honest. So this concept of "value" butts up against a few other concepts, like how do we, collectively, protect the poor, stupid, desperate chump from the greedy and the selfish.
You can argue "we don't," but that's a value judgement with which I am sure you know causes all sorts of injustice in this world. If you can live with that, fine. Your set of values doesn't allow for protecting those people. But let's not pretend it's as simple as "value" is whatever I can get some gullible chump to pay for what I have. There really is more to it than that.
You have a car to sell, KBB says it's worth $10,400. You know this. You put a sign on the window of it that simply says "For sale."
Some chump comes along, says he likes the car's looks, wants to buy it from you, asks you how much. You say $45,000.
He says "that's too much, offers you $30,000." You "reluctantly" agree.
Is the car worth $30,000?
No, the car is worth $10,400, and your ability to cheat this stupid chump is worth $19,600. Call it semantics, but that's really what the anti-capitalists object to. You have more info, or you see somebody who more desperately needs what you are selling than you need to sell it, and the "value" changes, based on a principle that says it's every man for himself!
Which works fine, if everybody is honest. But everyone is not honest. So this concept of "value" butts up against a few other concepts, like how do we, collectively, protect the poor, stupid, desperate chump from the greedy and the selfish.
You can argue "we don't," but that's a value judgement with which I am sure you know causes all sorts of injustice in this world. If you can live with that, fine. Your set of values doesn't allow for protecting those people. But let's not pretend it's as simple as "value" is whatever I can get some gullible chump to pay for what I have. There really is more to it than that.
Posted by: BurtTC at April 18, 2015 11:44 AM (Dj0WE)
100
>>How many times when a ballplayer signs a big contract do we hear from
proggies; "how come we can pay Pablo Sandoval millions to play a game
while we pay teachers peanuts!"
How many tickets are sold because people want to see Sandoval play, or because he's contributions make team win (success=more fans)?
How many team jerseys w/Sandoval's name are sold? That's his value - getting people to invest their attention and money in his team, not just throwing a ball.
As for teachers, private schools that have a valuable curriculum and teaching staff are a valuable commodity (parents willing to pay $20K+ tuition). Bet those teachers are paid better, huh? Maybe these people b#tching about teachers being paid poorly should instead why people are willing to payg good money for private school teachers when public school teachers' service are available to them for free*.
*Yes, not free because taxes, but you pay whether you have kids or not, whether your kids or not.
proggies; "how come we can pay Pablo Sandoval millions to play a game
while we pay teachers peanuts!"
How many tickets are sold because people want to see Sandoval play, or because he's contributions make team win (success=more fans)?
How many team jerseys w/Sandoval's name are sold? That's his value - getting people to invest their attention and money in his team, not just throwing a ball.
As for teachers, private schools that have a valuable curriculum and teaching staff are a valuable commodity (parents willing to pay $20K+ tuition). Bet those teachers are paid better, huh? Maybe these people b#tching about teachers being paid poorly should instead why people are willing to payg good money for private school teachers when public school teachers' service are available to them for free*.
*Yes, not free because taxes, but you pay whether you have kids or not, whether your kids or not.
Posted by: Lizzy at April 18, 2015 11:45 AM (2TN4k)
101
And to return to WeirdDave's original point, they're removing the value of said dollar.
The mere fact that Fedzilla is printing money instead of creating a
favorable atmosphere for generating wealth proves its economic
illiteracy.
Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this sh1t
This is not by accident. Creating a huge Federal debt, takes away from future Presidents/government to use classical tools (increase in prime rate, etc) to fight inflation and fix other fiscal or monetary problems. Present policy is meant to control the future, just like creating Obamacare will lead to Statist Single Payer. Part of destroying freedom.
The mere fact that Fedzilla is printing money instead of creating a
favorable atmosphere for generating wealth proves its economic
illiteracy.
Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this sh1t
This is not by accident. Creating a huge Federal debt, takes away from future Presidents/government to use classical tools (increase in prime rate, etc) to fight inflation and fix other fiscal or monetary problems. Present policy is meant to control the future, just like creating Obamacare will lead to Statist Single Payer. Part of destroying freedom.
Posted by: Bossy Conservative....lost in America at April 18, 2015 11:46 AM (+1T7c)
102
You're not going to be able to teach a youngster like "Big" by economic argument or explanation. And in a way it's more than university indoctrination. A lot of it is human nature. "Big" and those like him have never had to provide for themselves. EVERYONE encounters difficulty and hardship and gets a cold slap in the face by reality when they step out on their own.
The hard part is letting go. stop supporting Big and our other grown kids and let them fall on their face a couple of times without us to come along a kiss it and make it better. We can offer encouragement but we shouldn't "fix" their problems.
The hard part is letting go. stop supporting Big and our other grown kids and let them fall on their face a couple of times without us to come along a kiss it and make it better. We can offer encouragement but we shouldn't "fix" their problems.
Posted by: Sphynx at April 18, 2015 11:46 AM (xm7gk)
103
@96 Nothing wrong with chocolate, but I hear when they're sauteed with onions, peppers, and spices, they make a mean taco. I like tacos.
Posted by: smaulz at April 18, 2015 11:48 AM (AbcTu)
104
Stace:
Libertarianism is very attractive to technically minded young men.
It's like a computer program or an engineering problem solving tool. It makes sense when people use their heads to make intelligent decisions in the political arena.
But it takes a while for kids to realize that most people NEVER use their heads, and allow their guts to make the important decisions. If they get there, they go conservative. If they don't they stay libtard or Ronulan.
Libertarianism is very attractive to technically minded young men.
It's like a computer program or an engineering problem solving tool. It makes sense when people use their heads to make intelligent decisions in the political arena.
But it takes a while for kids to realize that most people NEVER use their heads, and allow their guts to make the important decisions. If they get there, they go conservative. If they don't they stay libtard or Ronulan.
Posted by: Kristophr at April 18, 2015 11:48 AM (6fIOn)
105
>>No, the car is worth $10,400, and your ability to
cheat this stupid chump is worth $19,600. Call it semantics, but
that's really what the anti-capitalists object to. You have more info,
or you see somebody who more desperately needs what you are selling
than you need to sell it, and the "value" changes, based on a
principle that says it's every man for himself!
Which works fine, if everybody is honest. But everyone is not
honest. So this concept of "value" butts up against a few other
concepts, like how do we, collectively, protect the poor, stupid,
desperate chump from the greedy and the selfish.
You can argue "we don't," but that's a value judgement with which
I am sure you know causes all sorts of injustice in this world. If
you can live with that, fine. Your set of values doesn't allow for
protecting those people. But let's not pretend it's as simple as
"value" is whatever I can get some gullible chump to pay for what I
have. There really is more to it than that.
Posted by: BurtTC at April 18, 2015 11:44 AM (Dj0WE)<<
Unfortunately, or fortunately, stupidity is part of the market. Ever heard the term "Let the Buyer Beware" ???
Question: What did you pay at Starbucks for that latte you just drank???????
cheat this stupid chump is worth $19,600. Call it semantics, but
that's really what the anti-capitalists object to. You have more info,
or you see somebody who more desperately needs what you are selling
than you need to sell it, and the "value" changes, based on a
principle that says it's every man for himself!
Which works fine, if everybody is honest. But everyone is not
honest. So this concept of "value" butts up against a few other
concepts, like how do we, collectively, protect the poor, stupid,
desperate chump from the greedy and the selfish.
You can argue "we don't," but that's a value judgement with which
I am sure you know causes all sorts of injustice in this world. If
you can live with that, fine. Your set of values doesn't allow for
protecting those people. But let's not pretend it's as simple as
"value" is whatever I can get some gullible chump to pay for what I
have. There really is more to it than that.
Posted by: BurtTC at April 18, 2015 11:44 AM (Dj0WE)<<
Unfortunately, or fortunately, stupidity is part of the market. Ever heard the term "Let the Buyer Beware" ???
Question: What did you pay at Starbucks for that latte you just drank???????
Posted by: Sphynx at April 18, 2015 11:49 AM (xm7gk)
106
Any time I hear my kids say it's not fair, I say, you're right, it isn't unfair. Life isn't unfair. Deal with it.
Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at April 18, 2015 11:50 AM (0LHZx)
107
Nephew was shocked when we told him that the way to get a job was to figure out how to make (or save) money for a prospective boss.
This was a few years ago, before things got as bad as they are now. He went through some tough times, but he's in sale now, so I think he has a little better grasp of reality.
This was a few years ago, before things got as bad as they are now. He went through some tough times, but he's in sale now, so I think he has a little better grasp of reality.
Posted by: KT at April 18, 2015 11:50 AM (qahv/)
108
Correct me if this is erroneous, but I was always led to believe that min wage is what an employee is paid while the employer is deciding whether or not to keep him/her.
So a high min wage posits that the employee will receive that wage throughout his/her career. So advancement is neither required or encouraged.
Correct me if this is erroneous, but I was always led to believe that min wage is what an employee is paid while the employer is deciding whether or not to keep him/her.
So a high min wage posits that the employee will receive that wage throughout his/her career. So advancement is neither required or encouraged.
Posted by: irongrampa at April 18, 2015 11:51 AM (jeCnD)
109
78
Laughing at DiCaprio, eco warrior, who took 6 round trip flights on private jet to NYC in a month, costing $200k. To add insult to injury, I doubt he paid for it, most likely, it was billed to some phony foundation.
Posted by: Bruce J. at April 18, 2015 11:33 AM (iQIUe)
A few years ago I went on one of those carbon calculator websites, and worked out that one cross country trip on a Gulfstream jet puts out more CO2 than my Suburban does in a YEAR.
If I ever had a twinge of guilt over owning a large SUV, that destroyed its last vestige. What's most galling is that the DiCaprios fly privately all over the world to exotic resorts, but don't want
Bubba to have an SUV for driving his family to the lake to go fishing.
Laughing at DiCaprio, eco warrior, who took 6 round trip flights on private jet to NYC in a month, costing $200k. To add insult to injury, I doubt he paid for it, most likely, it was billed to some phony foundation.
Posted by: Bruce J. at April 18, 2015 11:33 AM (iQIUe)
A few years ago I went on one of those carbon calculator websites, and worked out that one cross country trip on a Gulfstream jet puts out more CO2 than my Suburban does in a YEAR.
If I ever had a twinge of guilt over owning a large SUV, that destroyed its last vestige. What's most galling is that the DiCaprios fly privately all over the world to exotic resorts, but don't want
Bubba to have an SUV for driving his family to the lake to go fishing.
Posted by: stace at April 18, 2015 11:52 AM (ImzkZ)
110
Posted by: BurtTC at April 18, 2015 11:44 AM (Dj0WE)
It is not our job to protect other people and certainly we should not use Socilaism to do it.
In your example the seller did nothing wrong.
It's the buyer's fault he did not know what he needed to know and did not do what he needed to do.
In your example you showed there is more than one thing of value on fisplay, not just the car. Information and good judgement have value, too.
It is not our job to protect other people and certainly we should not use Socilaism to do it.
In your example the seller did nothing wrong.
It's the buyer's fault he did not know what he needed to know and did not do what he needed to do.
In your example you showed there is more than one thing of value on fisplay, not just the car. Information and good judgement have value, too.
Posted by: eman at April 18, 2015 11:52 AM (MQEz6)
111
100 As for teachers, private schools that have a
valuable curriculum and teaching staff are a valuable commodity (parents
willing to pay $20K+ tuition). Bet those teachers are paid better, huh?
Maybe these people b#tching about teachers being paid poorly should
instead why people are willing to payg good money for private school
teachers when public school teachers' service are available to them for
free*.
*Yes, not free because taxes, but you pay whether you have kids or not, whether your kids or not.
Posted by: Lizzy at April 18, 2015 11:45 AM (2TN4k)
Public school teachers with 5 years senority make more than that here in cheap SC. I would guess private school teachers are pulling in double that.
valuable curriculum and teaching staff are a valuable commodity (parents
willing to pay $20K+ tuition). Bet those teachers are paid better, huh?
Maybe these people b#tching about teachers being paid poorly should
instead why people are willing to payg good money for private school
teachers when public school teachers' service are available to them for
free*.
*Yes, not free because taxes, but you pay whether you have kids or not, whether your kids or not.
Posted by: Lizzy at April 18, 2015 11:45 AM (2TN4k)
Public school teachers with 5 years senority make more than that here in cheap SC. I would guess private school teachers are pulling in double that.
Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at April 18, 2015 11:53 AM (wlDny)
112
irongrampa:
Not anymore. The socialists are trying to turn it into a wealth redistribution tool.
And when businesses move out of $15 minimum wage jurisdictions, the socialist retards blame those businesses for being "greedy".
Not anymore. The socialists are trying to turn it into a wealth redistribution tool.
And when businesses move out of $15 minimum wage jurisdictions, the socialist retards blame those businesses for being "greedy".
Posted by: Kristophr at April 18, 2015 11:55 AM (6fIOn)
113
If someone offers to buy my car for $30K even though KBB says it's "worth" $14K, at that point in time, the car is worth $30K. If an hour later, someone else sells the exact same car $14K, the car goes back to being worth $14K.
Worth isn't just a function of a product and price, it's a function of product, price and time. And it's constantly changing. The perfect example is stocks. One minute a share of XYZ could be $20 and literally the next minute it could be $18 and a minute after that $22. Nothing about the company has changed in those few minutes but the "worth" of that share of the company has increased and decreased over that time frame.
Worth isn't just a function of a product and price, it's a function of product, price and time. And it's constantly changing. The perfect example is stocks. One minute a share of XYZ could be $20 and literally the next minute it could be $18 and a minute after that $22. Nothing about the company has changed in those few minutes but the "worth" of that share of the company has increased and decreased over that time frame.
Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at April 18, 2015 11:55 AM (0LHZx)
114
The problem with using teachers as example of market forces determining pay value is precisely that their profession is heavily regimented by government funding and arbitrary 'rules' that dissuade market interaction, e.g. tenure.
Posted by: Sphynx at April 18, 2015 11:56 AM (xm7gk)
115
But it takes a while for kids to realize that most
people NEVER use their heads, and allow their guts to make the important
decisions. If they get there, they go conservative. If they don't they
stay libtard or Ronulan.
Posted by: Kristophr at April 18, 2015 11:48 AM (6fIOn)
I love the efficient market hypothesis and the rational investor construct used by economists to justify their use of calculus (specifically, continuity and differentiability of the appropriate functions).
Investors and the market are about as rational as a housewife who just had a bat fly into her hair.
people NEVER use their heads, and allow their guts to make the important
decisions. If they get there, they go conservative. If they don't they
stay libtard or Ronulan.
Posted by: Kristophr at April 18, 2015 11:48 AM (6fIOn)
I love the efficient market hypothesis and the rational investor construct used by economists to justify their use of calculus (specifically, continuity and differentiability of the appropriate functions).
Investors and the market are about as rational as a housewife who just had a bat fly into her hair.
Posted by: Jay Guevara at April 18, 2015 11:56 AM (oKE6c)
116
WeirdDave and Gingy
I have two sons, one about the age of Big and another a little younger. Advice is free, about what you pay for it.
1. You can't argue a person out of a position he arrived at without logic, with logic. You can be right as rain, and I'm sure you are, but.....good luck with that.
2. You have to let him fail. Cut him off. Really. This might be the beginning of learning. You've tried your best to raise and nurture him, and right now he is breaking your hearts and spirit.
3. After he fails, he may be less angry or more angry. Or he may become a criminal, or may start to take life seriously. It's a crapshoot. If you put something of value in him, some day it will come out again and he will change.
I have two sons, one about the age of Big and another a little younger. Advice is free, about what you pay for it.
1. You can't argue a person out of a position he arrived at without logic, with logic. You can be right as rain, and I'm sure you are, but.....good luck with that.
2. You have to let him fail. Cut him off. Really. This might be the beginning of learning. You've tried your best to raise and nurture him, and right now he is breaking your hearts and spirit.
3. After he fails, he may be less angry or more angry. Or he may become a criminal, or may start to take life seriously. It's a crapshoot. If you put something of value in him, some day it will come out again and he will change.
Posted by: Bossy Conservative....lost in America at April 18, 2015 11:56 AM (+1T7c)
117
One way to limit the damage done by universities is Charles Murray's idea for expanding CPA-type testing to other fields. Employers could then substitute measurable competence for credentialism.
Posted by: KT at April 18, 2015 11:56 AM (qahv/)
118
A buyer can find the listed value of a car just as a seller can do.
A buyer can learn and think and think again before buying.
A buyer can learn and think and think again before buying.
Posted by: eman at April 18, 2015 11:57 AM (MQEz6)
119
"value is temporal and local." ama
We face a huge problem because of the "global market" thing. America still has many advantages in technology, infrastructure, and educated work force. But in many ways our workers compete directly with Chinese cheap labor, and their lack of OSHA type overhead. The can fill their sweatshops and never fear the unions.
So a pure "value" judgement means our industry keeps moving off shore. Only intervention and some redistribution, mixed with some military force and a lot of debt, keeps America feeling wealthy. And of course illegals for labor domestically, suppresses the value of "local" American workers. The labor supply is global now, so our value trend is downward, at the low end at least.
We face a huge problem because of the "global market" thing. America still has many advantages in technology, infrastructure, and educated work force. But in many ways our workers compete directly with Chinese cheap labor, and their lack of OSHA type overhead. The can fill their sweatshops and never fear the unions.
So a pure "value" judgement means our industry keeps moving off shore. Only intervention and some redistribution, mixed with some military force and a lot of debt, keeps America feeling wealthy. And of course illegals for labor domestically, suppresses the value of "local" American workers. The labor supply is global now, so our value trend is downward, at the low end at least.
Posted by: Illiniwek at April 18, 2015 11:58 AM (QGjci)
120
My wife and I are both thankful of how our youngest has developed in college. She's at the "local" (only 90 miles away State Univ.) where she wanted to go.
She got active in the Newman Center early on and the priest there is wonderful with the kids and a relative "conservative" for a guy who was ordained during the period he was in the mid 70's. She's more "religious" -- in a good, not bad way, than she was 3 years ago.
She took many of her core classes at a community college as part of an early entry program and the teachers were mostly interested in teaching not converting. Most, maybe all, of the teachers/professors in her major area and practicing Christians (about 50% Catholic, 25% Lutherans, 20% other denoms and maybe 1 person not a Christian). They don't go around teaching religious beliefs in her classes, but it influences their lives.
One to one-and-a-half years left (she's in a program that most kids end up getting a degree in their major and also a teaching minor(?). My wife and I pray that she has as much 'luck' for the rest of the schooling.
She got active in the Newman Center early on and the priest there is wonderful with the kids and a relative "conservative" for a guy who was ordained during the period he was in the mid 70's. She's more "religious" -- in a good, not bad way, than she was 3 years ago.
She took many of her core classes at a community college as part of an early entry program and the teachers were mostly interested in teaching not converting. Most, maybe all, of the teachers/professors in her major area and practicing Christians (about 50% Catholic, 25% Lutherans, 20% other denoms and maybe 1 person not a Christian). They don't go around teaching religious beliefs in her classes, but it influences their lives.
One to one-and-a-half years left (she's in a program that most kids end up getting a degree in their major and also a teaching minor(?). My wife and I pray that she has as much 'luck' for the rest of the schooling.
Posted by: John Pomeroy at April 18, 2015 11:58 AM (2yql2)
121
Unfortunately, or fortunately, stupidity is part of the market. Ever heard the term "Let the Buyer Beware" ???
Question: What did you pay at Starbucks for that latte you just drank???????
Posted by: Sphynx at April 18, 2015 11:49 AM (xm7gk)
I don't think Starbucks overcharges for their coffee. That's a bad example, because most people who walk into Starbucks realize they are indulging.
"Let the buyer beware" is a simpler concept for a simpler time though. It's one thing to say if you want to spend $5 for a cup of coffee, go ahead, it's another thing to expect your teenage daughter to know whether the jerk who is offering to fix her broken hose on her car by taking out her transmission and charging her $2500 for it.
You can say "let the buyer beware," but a $20 hose is not worth $2500 simply because a dishonest car repairman can get it. It's not. Like I said, he knows more, he knows your teenage daughter doesn't know jack. So the hose is STILL worth $20, but his greedy bastard avaricious ways are worth $2480. That's what we're paying for. Not the damn hose.
Question: What did you pay at Starbucks for that latte you just drank???????
Posted by: Sphynx at April 18, 2015 11:49 AM (xm7gk)
I don't think Starbucks overcharges for their coffee. That's a bad example, because most people who walk into Starbucks realize they are indulging.
"Let the buyer beware" is a simpler concept for a simpler time though. It's one thing to say if you want to spend $5 for a cup of coffee, go ahead, it's another thing to expect your teenage daughter to know whether the jerk who is offering to fix her broken hose on her car by taking out her transmission and charging her $2500 for it.
You can say "let the buyer beware," but a $20 hose is not worth $2500 simply because a dishonest car repairman can get it. It's not. Like I said, he knows more, he knows your teenage daughter doesn't know jack. So the hose is STILL worth $20, but his greedy bastard avaricious ways are worth $2480. That's what we're paying for. Not the damn hose.
Posted by: BurtTC at April 18, 2015 11:58 AM (Dj0WE)
122
Ace up
Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at April 18, 2015 11:59 AM (wlDny)
123
Public school teachers with 5 years senority make more than that here in cheap SC. I would guess private school teachers are pulling in double that.
My Dad teaches at a Christian school and he has always been paid less than someone with equivalent experience would get from a public school. I think private school teachers are paid less than public school teachers as a general rule.
My Dad teaches at a Christian school and he has always been paid less than someone with equivalent experience would get from a public school. I think private school teachers are paid less than public school teachers as a general rule.
Posted by: Grey Fox at April 18, 2015 11:59 AM (OBj9M)
124
117 One way to limit the damage done by universities is Charles Murray's idea for expanding CPA-type testing to other fields. Employers could then substitute measurable competence for credentialism.
Posted by: KT at April 18, 2015 11:56 AM (qahv/)
That would be called racism so fast the speed of light would seem like a fat guy trying to climb Everest.
117 One way to limit the damage done by universities is Charles Murray's idea for expanding CPA-type testing to other fields. Employers could then substitute measurable competence for credentialism.
Posted by: KT at April 18, 2015 11:56 AM (qahv/)
That would be called racism so fast the speed of light would seem like a fat guy trying to climb Everest.
Posted by: eman at April 18, 2015 11:59 AM (MQEz6)
125
>>Public school teachers with 5 years senority make more than that here in
cheap SC. I would guess private school teachers are pulling in double
that.
The $20K+ is the student's tuition, not the teacher's salary. But it's a good point that teachers' pay varies widely by location, seniority, etc. (and they have summers off!). Funny how the bleeding hearts who find teacher pay so distressing never get around to denouncing the big chunk of their pay is diverted to unions, where the union staff is paid quite well.
cheap SC. I would guess private school teachers are pulling in double
that.
The $20K+ is the student's tuition, not the teacher's salary. But it's a good point that teachers' pay varies widely by location, seniority, etc. (and they have summers off!). Funny how the bleeding hearts who find teacher pay so distressing never get around to denouncing the big chunk of their pay is diverted to unions, where the union staff is paid quite well.
Posted by: Lizzy at April 18, 2015 12:01 PM (2TN4k)
126
If you want to get really depressed re value, bring up "price gouging" and "ticket scalping." Even most conservatives whiff on those two. Price gouging? The demand for something just shot northwards, but people think that they should get it for the old price, because.
Yea, I understand that one, many people don't.
And Burt, I disagree with your thesis. In your scenario, the car is worth 30 grand. Maybe only for a minute, but it IS worth 30 grand. If you lose sight of that basic fact, then there is no foundation for an economic system.
Yea, I understand that one, many people don't.
And Burt, I disagree with your thesis. In your scenario, the car is worth 30 grand. Maybe only for a minute, but it IS worth 30 grand. If you lose sight of that basic fact, then there is no foundation for an economic system.
Posted by: Weirddave at April 18, 2015 12:01 PM (WvS3w)
127
Posted by: Kristophr at April 18, 2015 11:48 AM (6fIOn)
That makes sense. Thanks for the explanation.
That makes sense. Thanks for the explanation.
Posted by: stace at April 18, 2015 12:02 PM (ImzkZ)
128
It is not our job to protect other people and certainly we should not use Socilaism to do it.
In your example the seller did nothing wrong.
It's the buyer's fault he did not know what he needed to know and did not do what he needed to do.
In your example you showed there is more than one thing of value on fisplay, not just the car. Information and good judgement have value, too.
Posted by: eman at April 18, 2015 11:52 AM (MQEz6)
Of COURSE the seller did something wrong! He's a lying cheating bastard!
And if you're ok with that, have at it. But stop pretending you're not being a lying cheating bastard. At least be honest with yourself about what you are doing.
In your example the seller did nothing wrong.
It's the buyer's fault he did not know what he needed to know and did not do what he needed to do.
In your example you showed there is more than one thing of value on fisplay, not just the car. Information and good judgement have value, too.
Posted by: eman at April 18, 2015 11:52 AM (MQEz6)
Of COURSE the seller did something wrong! He's a lying cheating bastard!
And if you're ok with that, have at it. But stop pretending you're not being a lying cheating bastard. At least be honest with yourself about what you are doing.
Posted by: BurtTC at April 18, 2015 12:02 PM (Dj0WE)
129
And Burt, I disagree with your thesis. In your scenario, the car is worth 30 grand. Maybe only for a minute, but it IS worth 30 grand. If you lose sight of that basic fact, then there is no foundation for an economic system.
Posted by: Weirddave at April 18, 2015 12:01 PM (WvS3w)
Again, that's fine. You made the calculated decision that the system is always going to cheat the stupid and the gullible and the needy. If you're ok with that, great.
Just stop pretending you're doing something honorable and noble, because you're not.
Posted by: Weirddave at April 18, 2015 12:01 PM (WvS3w)
Again, that's fine. You made the calculated decision that the system is always going to cheat the stupid and the gullible and the needy. If you're ok with that, great.
Just stop pretending you're doing something honorable and noble, because you're not.
Posted by: BurtTC at April 18, 2015 12:04 PM (Dj0WE)
130
Posted by: BurtTC at April 18, 2015 11:58 AM (Dj0WE)
Intrinsic worth is not real.
What is a mountain full of iron ore worth?
The information the buyer needs is worth something or nothing.
The ability to use good judgement and be patient and ready to investigate before acting is also worth something.
Intrinsic worth is not real.
What is a mountain full of iron ore worth?
The information the buyer needs is worth something or nothing.
The ability to use good judgement and be patient and ready to investigate before acting is also worth something.
Posted by: eman at April 18, 2015 12:04 PM (MQEz6)
131
114 The problem with using teachers as example of market forces determining pay value is precisely that their profession is heavily regimented by government funding and arbitrary 'rules' that dissuade market interaction, e.g. tenure.
Posted by: Sphynx at April 18, 2015 11:56 AM (xm7gk)
_________
True. But the same can be said about baseball players. Part of the reason a good player makes $20M a year (or whatever) is because there are only a limited number of teams in the league with extremely tough barriers to entry. Hell, baseball is exempt from anti-trust laws for crying out loud. If there were 100 teams instead of 25 (or however many there are, I don't really follow baseball), the economics would be much different.
And to a lesser extent the same is true for industries like utilities, medical services and many others. Doctors are expensive because the supply is kept artificially low. Not anyone can decide to become a doctor. You have to go to medical school and there is a finite amount of medical school grads every year. It's not even close to a free market. I'm not saying anyone off the street should be able to call themselves a doctor, just pointing out that very few industries or professions work in a pure free market.
Posted by: Sphynx at April 18, 2015 11:56 AM (xm7gk)
_________
True. But the same can be said about baseball players. Part of the reason a good player makes $20M a year (or whatever) is because there are only a limited number of teams in the league with extremely tough barriers to entry. Hell, baseball is exempt from anti-trust laws for crying out loud. If there were 100 teams instead of 25 (or however many there are, I don't really follow baseball), the economics would be much different.
And to a lesser extent the same is true for industries like utilities, medical services and many others. Doctors are expensive because the supply is kept artificially low. Not anyone can decide to become a doctor. You have to go to medical school and there is a finite amount of medical school grads every year. It's not even close to a free market. I'm not saying anyone off the street should be able to call themselves a doctor, just pointing out that very few industries or professions work in a pure free market.
Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at April 18, 2015 12:05 PM (0LHZx)
132
35
I don't know how many times I've made an offer to buy a car and the seller comes back with I can't sell it for less than $X because $X is what I owe. And I say well that's fine and good that you owe $X but the car is worth $Y, good luck.
Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at April 18, 2015 11:08 AM (0LHZx)
-----------------------------------
A year ago my oldest daughter (not in school) needed a car and she offered a grand to a neighbor who had his dead father's car stored in his carport for 5 years. The book was maybe $1200. The wife of the guy (they had apparently both inherited it) wanted the full $1200. Guess where the car still is.
I don't know how many times I've made an offer to buy a car and the seller comes back with I can't sell it for less than $X because $X is what I owe. And I say well that's fine and good that you owe $X but the car is worth $Y, good luck.
Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at April 18, 2015 11:08 AM (0LHZx)
-----------------------------------
A year ago my oldest daughter (not in school) needed a car and she offered a grand to a neighbor who had his dead father's car stored in his carport for 5 years. The book was maybe $1200. The wife of the guy (they had apparently both inherited it) wanted the full $1200. Guess where the car still is.
Posted by: John Pomeroy at April 18, 2015 12:07 PM (2yql2)
133
Posted by: BurtTC at April 18, 2015 12:02 PM (Dj0WE)
He did not lie. All he did was withold information. That information was not the "truth" about the value of the car. It was an opinion, a guess.
The buyer was lazy and ignorant and reckless.
Not my problem.
He did not lie. All he did was withold information. That information was not the "truth" about the value of the car. It was an opinion, a guess.
The buyer was lazy and ignorant and reckless.
Not my problem.
Posted by: eman at April 18, 2015 12:07 PM (MQEz6)
134
So glad I homeschooled.
Posted by: Mr. Naron at April 18, 2015 12:08 PM (UOik0)
135
>>I don't think Starbucks overcharges for their coffee. That's a bad
example, because most people who walk into Starbucks realize they are
indulging.<<
And it's their choice to do so. It's called Liberty. Just like its the fool's choice to purchase a $12000 car for $30,000. If enough people are fools, like the car's styling, are willing to fork out more for a name brand, willing to pay 3x the value of the interior it it's leather, etc., a new market price will be set.
All the examples you give are of foolish people not researching the market price of a service or good. I understand your point. My remedy to that point has nothing to do with goverment oversight and really the examples you give are not arguments against capitalism. They're examples of fraud. Buyers that have been burned will learn, won't they? They'll research next time and their offer for goods or services will be more in line for the market rate.
The missing dimension here is that the participants in capitalism have to also keep in mind an ancient adage, given by a very sage person. "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."
example, because most people who walk into Starbucks realize they are
indulging.<<
And it's their choice to do so. It's called Liberty. Just like its the fool's choice to purchase a $12000 car for $30,000. If enough people are fools, like the car's styling, are willing to fork out more for a name brand, willing to pay 3x the value of the interior it it's leather, etc., a new market price will be set.
All the examples you give are of foolish people not researching the market price of a service or good. I understand your point. My remedy to that point has nothing to do with goverment oversight and really the examples you give are not arguments against capitalism. They're examples of fraud. Buyers that have been burned will learn, won't they? They'll research next time and their offer for goods or services will be more in line for the market rate.
The missing dimension here is that the participants in capitalism have to also keep in mind an ancient adage, given by a very sage person. "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."
Posted by: Sphynx at April 18, 2015 12:08 PM (xm7gk)
136
Foundations are how rich people avoid tax rape. If you ever get ahead in life, I suggest starting a trust, or if rich enough, a foundation. Posted by: Kristophr at April 18, 2015 11:41 AM (6fIOn)
Setting up a charitable foundation and then using it to pay your expenses when you are all ready uber rich is bull shit.
Setting up a charitable foundation and then using it to pay your expenses when you are all ready uber rich is bull shit.
Posted by: Bruce J. at April 18, 2015 12:09 PM (iQIUe)
137
136 Foundations are how rich people avoid tax rape. If you ever get ahead in life, I suggest starting a trust, or if rich enough, a foundation. Posted by: Kristophr at April 18, 2015 11:41 AM (6fIOn)
Setting up a charitable foundation and then using it to pay your expenses when you are all ready uber rich is bull shit.
Posted by: Bruce J. at April 18, 2015 12:09 PM (iQIUe)
Get rid of the income tax and these problems go *poof*
Setting up a charitable foundation and then using it to pay your expenses when you are all ready uber rich is bull shit.
Posted by: Bruce J. at April 18, 2015 12:09 PM (iQIUe)
Get rid of the income tax and these problems go *poof*
Posted by: eman at April 18, 2015 12:10 PM (MQEz6)
138
We face a huge problem because of the "global market" thing. America still has many advantages in technology, infrastructure, and educated work force. But in many ways our workers compete directly with Chinese cheap labor, and their lack of OSHA type overhead. The can fill their sweatshops and never fear the unions.
And one little factoid that was hidden from everyone (or almost everyone) is that all that cheap foreign labor was subsidized by their respective governments.
They were/are not playing on a level field. Rather than encouraging other countries to develop their own markets, the idiots in DC gave them ours. (Cliton and NAFTA spring immediately to mind. The sad part is, it's not just that one POS bill.)
And one little factoid that was hidden from everyone (or almost everyone) is that all that cheap foreign labor was subsidized by their respective governments.
They were/are not playing on a level field. Rather than encouraging other countries to develop their own markets, the idiots in DC gave them ours. (Cliton and NAFTA spring immediately to mind. The sad part is, it's not just that one POS bill.)
Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this sh1t at April 18, 2015 12:10 PM (0HooB)
139
What did you pay at Starbucks for that latte you just drank???????
Posted by: Sphynx
--------------
In my case, that is easy.
$0.00
Because I've never had anything from Starbucks. The lunch counter almost directly across the street pours a bottomless cup of coffee for $1.05.
Value is what it is, and should be determined by the market place.
BurtTC and I might agree on some constraints on snake-oil salesmen and those who do not fully disclose critical details regarding the service/product that they are actively marketing, but in the largest part, it is the buyer's responsibility to know what it is that they acquiring.
I recall, years ago, a friends wife taking a job, and later learning that others were being paid more for similar work. She was livid. I asked her if she had sought the job, "Yes", she replied. I asked her if she had accepted the offered pay, "Yes", she replied.
One would think that would end her anger..., but no. It's was all about 'fairness', rather than personal responsibility.
Posted by: Sphynx
--------------
In my case, that is easy.
$0.00
Because I've never had anything from Starbucks. The lunch counter almost directly across the street pours a bottomless cup of coffee for $1.05.
Value is what it is, and should be determined by the market place.
BurtTC and I might agree on some constraints on snake-oil salesmen and those who do not fully disclose critical details regarding the service/product that they are actively marketing, but in the largest part, it is the buyer's responsibility to know what it is that they acquiring.
I recall, years ago, a friends wife taking a job, and later learning that others were being paid more for similar work. She was livid. I asked her if she had sought the job, "Yes", she replied. I asked her if she had accepted the offered pay, "Yes", she replied.
One would think that would end her anger..., but no. It's was all about 'fairness', rather than personal responsibility.
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at April 18, 2015 12:11 PM (Wvadc)
140
But stop
pretending you're not being a lying cheating bastard. At least be
honest with yourself about what you are doing.
If only lying cheating bastards were honest, huh? /kidding
pretending you're not being a lying cheating bastard. At least be
honest with yourself about what you are doing.
If only lying cheating bastards were honest, huh? /kidding
Posted by: Jay Guevara at April 18, 2015 12:11 PM (oKE6c)
141
Posted by: stace at April 18, 2015 11:52 AM (ImzkZ)
He can call it an "eco-resort" but it is anything but and only rich people will ever be able to afford it.
http://goo.gl/P053H4
Posted by: stace at April 18, 2015 11:52 AM (ImzkZ)
He can call it an "eco-resort" but it is anything but and only rich people will ever be able to afford it.
http://goo.gl/P053H4
Posted by: Bruce J. at April 18, 2015 12:11 PM (iQIUe)
142
123: I'm sure you are correct. Private schools offer teachers non-monetary benefits like not having thugs that are only in class because of force of law so that limits the amount of salary they have to offer to fill the positions.
Posted by: PaleRider at April 18, 2015 12:11 PM (7w/kf)
143
The missing dimension here is that the participants in capitalism have to also keep in mind an ancient adage, given by a very sage person. "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."
Posted by: Sphynx at April 18, 2015 12:08 PM (xm7gk)
Exactly. And in a society that adheres to the principle of the golden rule will probably be fine. We don't live in that type of society anymore, however.
Posted by: Sphynx at April 18, 2015 12:08 PM (xm7gk)
Exactly. And in a society that adheres to the principle of the golden rule will probably be fine. We don't live in that type of society anymore, however.
Posted by: BurtTC at April 18, 2015 12:13 PM (Dj0WE)
144
I recall, years ago, a friends wife taking a job,
and later learning that others were being paid more for similar work.
She was livid. I asked her if she had sought the job, "Yes", she
replied. I asked her if she had accepted the offered pay, "Yes", she
replied.
One would think that would end her anger..., but no. It's was all about 'fairness', rather than personal responsibility.
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at April 18, 2015 12:11 PM (Wvadc)
I seem to remember Jesus telling a parable about this; a landowner hiring workers to tend his orchard and paying them all the same, regardless of how long they'd been working. The flip side of your case.
and later learning that others were being paid more for similar work.
She was livid. I asked her if she had sought the job, "Yes", she
replied. I asked her if she had accepted the offered pay, "Yes", she
replied.
One would think that would end her anger..., but no. It's was all about 'fairness', rather than personal responsibility.
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at April 18, 2015 12:11 PM (Wvadc)
I seem to remember Jesus telling a parable about this; a landowner hiring workers to tend his orchard and paying them all the same, regardless of how long they'd been working. The flip side of your case.
Posted by: Jay Guevara at April 18, 2015 12:13 PM (oKE6c)
145
Again, that's fine. You made the calculated decision that the system is always going to cheat the stupid and the gullible and the needy. If you're ok with that, great.
Just stop pretending you're doing something honorable and noble, because you're not.
I'll grant you your assertion FOR THE MOMENT, just because I want to isolate on one thing. OK, an idiot paid 30K for a car that others would only have given 12K for.
#1 You seem to think this is a problem. I don't. Freedom, baby. It means freedom to be stupid, too. Why is this a problem?
#2 What's your "solution" to this "problem"?
Just stop pretending you're doing something honorable and noble, because you're not.
I'll grant you your assertion FOR THE MOMENT, just because I want to isolate on one thing. OK, an idiot paid 30K for a car that others would only have given 12K for.
#1 You seem to think this is a problem. I don't. Freedom, baby. It means freedom to be stupid, too. Why is this a problem?
#2 What's your "solution" to this "problem"?
Posted by: Weirddave at April 18, 2015 12:14 PM (WvS3w)
146
test
Posted by: KT at April 18, 2015 12:15 PM (qahv/)
147
>>Private schools offer teachers non-monetary benefits like not having
thugs that are only in class because of force of law so that limits the
amount of salary they have to offer to fill the positions.
Good point.
I would assume private school teachers also don't have to pay union dues.
thugs that are only in class because of force of law so that limits the
amount of salary they have to offer to fill the positions.
Good point.
I would assume private school teachers also don't have to pay union dues.
Posted by: Lizzy at April 18, 2015 12:17 PM (2TN4k)
148
Posted by: BurtTC at April 18, 2015 12:02 PM (Dj0WE)
Here's one for you: the lying cheating bastard "overcharges" for, say, a painting, and the mark pays the "unfair" price. But then it turns out the mark knows that the painting is a long lost masterpiece that's worth much MORE than he paid for it.
Who's the lying cheating bastard now?
Answer: neither.
Here's one for you: the lying cheating bastard "overcharges" for, say, a painting, and the mark pays the "unfair" price. But then it turns out the mark knows that the painting is a long lost masterpiece that's worth much MORE than he paid for it.
Who's the lying cheating bastard now?
Answer: neither.
Posted by: Jay Guevara at April 18, 2015 12:18 PM (oKE6c)
149
Can't post a quote from Andrew Klavan for some reason.
Posted by: KT at April 18, 2015 12:18 PM (qahv/)
150
Again, that's fine. You made the calculated decision that the system
is always going to cheat the stupid and the gullible and the needy. If
you're ok with that, great.
Call it a stupidity tax. Just like the lottery.
is always going to cheat the stupid and the gullible and the needy. If
you're ok with that, great.
Call it a stupidity tax. Just like the lottery.
Posted by: Jay Guevara at April 18, 2015 12:19 PM (oKE6c)
151
The seller did not know the KBB data until he looked it up.
The buyer could have done that, too.
The seller is under no obligation to assist the buyer.
The buyer could have done that, too.
The seller is under no obligation to assist the buyer.
Posted by: eman at April 18, 2015 12:20 PM (MQEz6)
152
"Free people can treat each other justly, but they can't make life fair. To get rid of the unfairness among individuals, you have to exercise power over them. The more fairness you want, the more power you need. Thus, all freams of fairness become dreams of tyranny in the end."
Andrew Klavan
Andrew Klavan
Posted by: KT at April 18, 2015 12:20 PM (qahv/)
153
Had to type in the quote, I guess.
Posted by: KT at April 18, 2015 12:20 PM (qahv/)
Posted by: eman at April 18, 2015 12:21 PM (MQEz6)
155
KT, go here: http://www.unicodetools.com/unicode/convert-to-html.php
Paste the quote you want into the top box then hit "convert". Cut and paste the text from the bottom box here. It scrubs all of the unicode characters that cause problems when posting and black diamonds when posting threads.
Be warned, it turns things into HTML, which the comments section doesn't use, but using the tool does highlight the offending character (turning it into &32677 or something) making it easy for you to correct.
Paste the quote you want into the top box then hit "convert". Cut and paste the text from the bottom box here. It scrubs all of the unicode characters that cause problems when posting and black diamonds when posting threads.
Be warned, it turns things into HTML, which the comments section doesn't use, but using the tool does highlight the offending character (turning it into &32677 or something) making it easy for you to correct.
Posted by: Weirddave at April 18, 2015 12:23 PM (WvS3w)
156
#1 You seem to think this is a problem. I don't. Freedom, baby. It means freedom to be stupid, too. Why is this a problem?
#2 What's your "solution" to this "problem"?
Posted by: Weirddave at April 18, 2015 12:14 PM (WvS3w)
You took the response right out of my fingertips.
#2 What's your "solution" to this "problem"?
Posted by: Weirddave at April 18, 2015 12:14 PM (WvS3w)
You took the response right out of my fingertips.
Posted by: Jay Guevara at April 18, 2015 12:23 PM (oKE6c)
157
Re the house example: I once sold a house that had a 50 year-old-stove in it. The oven was kind of iffy because this model you could adjust where you put the heating element, and it was so old the heating element had been moved around so many times that it was loose. Sometimes you'd think the oven had quit working because the element was simply loose. Push it back in, and everything was fine.
Most of the time, this appliance would have been detrimental to the sale. A realtor, in fact, would have advised it might be a good idea to do an entire kitchen upgrade.
The couple I eventually sold the house to loved the "vintage" stove. It helped facilitate the sale both ways because I also loved their enthusiasm for what had been my first house, rather than had they turned up their noses at the dated kitchen.
Most of the time, this appliance would have been detrimental to the sale. A realtor, in fact, would have advised it might be a good idea to do an entire kitchen upgrade.
The couple I eventually sold the house to loved the "vintage" stove. It helped facilitate the sale both ways because I also loved their enthusiasm for what had been my first house, rather than had they turned up their noses at the dated kitchen.
Posted by: Nicholas Kronos at April 18, 2015 12:24 PM (W7SBW)
158
>>
I recall, years ago, a friends wife taking a job,
and later learning that others were being paid more for similar work.
She was livid. I asked her if she had sought the job, "Yes", she
replied. I asked her if she had accepted the offered pay, "Yes", she
replied.
One would think that would end her anger..., but no. It's was all about 'fairness', rather than personal responsibility.
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at April 18, 2015 12:11 PM (Wvadc)<<
I don't want to go "all sexist" here but I will. I think one reason for the disparity of pay between the sexes is the unwillingness of female applicants to negotiate pay rate at hiring.
I've hired many females and a few males. Without fail the males negotiate for the highest starting pay. Females, about a fourth of them do. Most take what they're first offered.
I recall, years ago, a friends wife taking a job,
and later learning that others were being paid more for similar work.
She was livid. I asked her if she had sought the job, "Yes", she
replied. I asked her if she had accepted the offered pay, "Yes", she
replied.
One would think that would end her anger..., but no. It's was all about 'fairness', rather than personal responsibility.
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at April 18, 2015 12:11 PM (Wvadc)<<
I don't want to go "all sexist" here but I will. I think one reason for the disparity of pay between the sexes is the unwillingness of female applicants to negotiate pay rate at hiring.
I've hired many females and a few males. Without fail the males negotiate for the highest starting pay. Females, about a fourth of them do. Most take what they're first offered.
Posted by: Sphynx at April 18, 2015 12:25 PM (xm7gk)
159
I'm thankful that CW Jr. has decided to NOT go to college. His words, "Why spend tens of thousands of dollars to get a degree and end up working in retail?"
He's also wise to the indoctrination techniques of the Left. I've seen him take apart SJW's his age on the net, and he won't buy into any of that. It's another reason he says college is a waste of time.
Instead, he's going to technical college to learn tech-related skills and a trade. He hopes to land a job in IT somewhere. His goal is game design, but he wants something to fall back on. In that part, at least, he's wiser than his dad.
He's also wise to the indoctrination techniques of the Left. I've seen him take apart SJW's his age on the net, and he won't buy into any of that. It's another reason he says college is a waste of time.
Instead, he's going to technical college to learn tech-related skills and a trade. He hopes to land a job in IT somewhere. His goal is game design, but he wants something to fall back on. In that part, at least, he's wiser than his dad.
Posted by: Captain Whitebread at April 18, 2015 12:29 PM (rJUlF)
160
"The rain it falleth every day
Upon the just and unjust feller
But more upon the just, because
The unjust hath the just's umbrella"
In answer to BurtTC: we enslave that poor desperate stupid fool, and tell him it's for his own good. Because either he's free to make his own decisions or he isn't.
"The rain it falleth every day
Upon the just and unjust feller
But more upon the just, because
The unjust hath the just's umbrella"
In answer to BurtTC: we enslave that poor desperate stupid fool, and tell him it's for his own good. Because either he's free to make his own decisions or he isn't.
Posted by: AP at April 18, 2015 12:29 PM (alVBS)
161
No, the car is worth $10,400, and your ability to
cheat this stupid chump is worth $19,600. Call it semantics, but
that's really what the anti-capitalists object to. You have more info,
or you see somebody who more desperately needs what you are selling
than you need to sell it, and the "value" changes, based on a
principle that says it's every man for himself!
Which works fine, if everybody is honest. But everyone is not
honest. So this concept of "value" butts up against a few other
concepts, like how do we, collectively, protect the poor, stupid,
desperate chump from the greedy and the selfish.
You can argue "we don't," but that's a value judgement with which
I am sure you know causes all sorts of injustice in this world. If
you can live with that, fine. Your set of values doesn't allow for
protecting those people. But let's not pretend it's as simple as
"value" is whatever I can get some gullible chump to pay for what I
have. There really is more to it than that.
Posted by: BurtTC at April 18, 2015 11:44 AM (Dj0WE)
Nobody's being cheated here. An asking price was quoted, and a counter-offer made and accepted. $30,000 is the value of that car to that particular buyer. Who knows? Maybe he got his first piece of tail in a model exactly like it in every detail, and the memories make it worth that to him. KBB tracks "typical" sales, not exceptional ones. Perhaps, eight blocks away, a similar car changes hands for only $800 because it's a sweetheart deal between friends. Does that mean KBB is wrong to quote $10,400?
cheat this stupid chump is worth $19,600. Call it semantics, but
that's really what the anti-capitalists object to. You have more info,
or you see somebody who more desperately needs what you are selling
than you need to sell it, and the "value" changes, based on a
principle that says it's every man for himself!
Which works fine, if everybody is honest. But everyone is not
honest. So this concept of "value" butts up against a few other
concepts, like how do we, collectively, protect the poor, stupid,
desperate chump from the greedy and the selfish.
You can argue "we don't," but that's a value judgement with which
I am sure you know causes all sorts of injustice in this world. If
you can live with that, fine. Your set of values doesn't allow for
protecting those people. But let's not pretend it's as simple as
"value" is whatever I can get some gullible chump to pay for what I
have. There really is more to it than that.
Posted by: BurtTC at April 18, 2015 11:44 AM (Dj0WE)
Nobody's being cheated here. An asking price was quoted, and a counter-offer made and accepted. $30,000 is the value of that car to that particular buyer. Who knows? Maybe he got his first piece of tail in a model exactly like it in every detail, and the memories make it worth that to him. KBB tracks "typical" sales, not exceptional ones. Perhaps, eight blocks away, a similar car changes hands for only $800 because it's a sweetheart deal between friends. Does that mean KBB is wrong to quote $10,400?
Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at April 18, 2015 12:29 PM (Do5OK)
162
Again, that's fine. You made the calculated decision that the system is always going to cheat the stupid and the gullible and the needy. If you're ok with that, great.
Just stop pretending you're doing something honorable and noble, because you're not.
I'll grant you your assertion FOR THE MOMENT, just because I want to isolate on one thing. OK, an idiot paid 30K for a car that others would only have given 12K for.
#1 You seem to think this is a problem. I don't. Freedom, baby. It means freedom to be stupid, too. Why is this a problem?
#2 What's your "solution" to this "problem"?
Posted by: Weirddave at April 18, 2015 12:14 PM (WvS3w)
I really don't have a solution. I'm sure as heck not advocating for government intervention. I'm a smaller government guy all the way, but I think we (those of us who want to believe in the "value" of looking out for the weak, the stupid, and the needy) need to acknowledge that liars and cheats are lying and cheating within the capitalist system.
I'm not ok with that. I believe there is real evil perpetrated within capitalism, and some people seem to want to pretend there isn't.
Just stop pretending you're doing something honorable and noble, because you're not.
I'll grant you your assertion FOR THE MOMENT, just because I want to isolate on one thing. OK, an idiot paid 30K for a car that others would only have given 12K for.
#1 You seem to think this is a problem. I don't. Freedom, baby. It means freedom to be stupid, too. Why is this a problem?
#2 What's your "solution" to this "problem"?
Posted by: Weirddave at April 18, 2015 12:14 PM (WvS3w)
I really don't have a solution. I'm sure as heck not advocating for government intervention. I'm a smaller government guy all the way, but I think we (those of us who want to believe in the "value" of looking out for the weak, the stupid, and the needy) need to acknowledge that liars and cheats are lying and cheating within the capitalist system.
I'm not ok with that. I believe there is real evil perpetrated within capitalism, and some people seem to want to pretend there isn't.
Posted by: BurtTC at April 18, 2015 12:30 PM (Dj0WE)
163
What the buyer of a $10,000 car gets for paying $30,000 is a $20,000 education.
Posted by: Sphynx at April 18, 2015 12:32 PM (xm7gk)
164
A dude I know used to make decent money selling bits of old stuff to folks scattered all over the world.
He would buy boxes of old crap at estate sales and yard sales. The sellers saw little value in it and sold the stuff for a pittance.
How did the dude know this? He worked. He worked at getting and using the special knowledge that boxes of old junk could contain valuable items. Then he worked to get that stuff and sell it and to expand his knowledge regarding such things.
He created wealth out of junk. No one was cheated. He could have told the folks who owned the boxes of junk what he knew, but they didn't work for that knowlege, he did, so why should he offer it to them for free? They would use that knowledge to sell the junk on their own. He wasn't stupid, you know.
He would buy boxes of old crap at estate sales and yard sales. The sellers saw little value in it and sold the stuff for a pittance.
How did the dude know this? He worked. He worked at getting and using the special knowledge that boxes of old junk could contain valuable items. Then he worked to get that stuff and sell it and to expand his knowledge regarding such things.
He created wealth out of junk. No one was cheated. He could have told the folks who owned the boxes of junk what he knew, but they didn't work for that knowlege, he did, so why should he offer it to them for free? They would use that knowledge to sell the junk on their own. He wasn't stupid, you know.
Posted by: eman at April 18, 2015 12:33 PM (MQEz6)
165
I'm not ok with that. I believe there is real evil perpetrated within capitalism, and some people seem to want to pretend there isn't.
Posted by: BurtTC at April 18, 2015 12:30 PM (Dj0WE)
Every economic system has people who exploit it. It's up to the individual to be wise enough to spot it. And if you're not...lesson learned, wisdom gained.
Posted by: BurtTC at April 18, 2015 12:30 PM (Dj0WE)
Every economic system has people who exploit it. It's up to the individual to be wise enough to spot it. And if you're not...lesson learned, wisdom gained.
Posted by: Captain Whitebread at April 18, 2015 12:33 PM (rJUlF)
166
Heh. This reminds me of last Christmas when my indoctrinated Big and I had a huge argument about global warming.
Finally I screamed at her, "Al Gore said the world would be on fire by now! Are you on fire??" She reluctantly had to admit that she was not, in fact, on fire at that moment. And then we both fell on floor laughing our asses off.
Which actually gave me hope for her.
But, yeah, the state of higher education is a dismal mishmash of SJW vigilantism fantasy and red revenge.
Finally I screamed at her, "Al Gore said the world would be on fire by now! Are you on fire??" She reluctantly had to admit that she was not, in fact, on fire at that moment. And then we both fell on floor laughing our asses off.
Which actually gave me hope for her.
But, yeah, the state of higher education is a dismal mishmash of SJW vigilantism fantasy and red revenge.
Posted by: Gem at April 18, 2015 12:34 PM (e+EMw)
167
I'm not ok with that. I believe there is real evil
perpetrated within capitalism, and some people seem to want to
pretend there isn't.
Posted by: BurtTC at April 18, 2015 12:30 PM (Dj0WE)
You realize, of course, that the term "capitalism" was coined by Karl Marx as a pejorative term for the free market system which he opposed?
perpetrated within capitalism, and some people seem to want to
pretend there isn't.
Posted by: BurtTC at April 18, 2015 12:30 PM (Dj0WE)
You realize, of course, that the term "capitalism" was coined by Karl Marx as a pejorative term for the free market system which he opposed?
Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at April 18, 2015 12:35 PM (Do5OK)
168
There seems to be some confusion here about the distinction between market value, and what constitutes moral behavior.
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at April 18, 2015 12:38 PM (cQ7p2)
169
Marx had a different opinion of "value," something he described in Das Kapital as akin to a cost-basis valuation. Beyond the problems involved with arriving at value in that fashion in the first place is the reasonable question of how the input costs should be valued? To paraphrase the @Instapundit: it's made up all the way down.
Whereas your description of value is proper it ignores a large factor, value changes over time and can be different for different individuals and groups, I think some might call that diversity in action. The reasonable question about Marx is why did he ignore published information from the London and Liverpool grain markets that were open examples of those valuation-changing dynamics? More than a century later Peter Steidlmayer began writing and lecturing on valuation in trading markets, and although specific to those markets his understanding is applicable on a macro basis. Interestingly Peter no longer employs some of his early work because trading markets are not what they were twenty years ago, they continue to evolve and now employ programmed trading, or essentially human derivatives.
Whereas your description of value is proper it ignores a large factor, value changes over time and can be different for different individuals and groups, I think some might call that diversity in action. The reasonable question about Marx is why did he ignore published information from the London and Liverpool grain markets that were open examples of those valuation-changing dynamics? More than a century later Peter Steidlmayer began writing and lecturing on valuation in trading markets, and although specific to those markets his understanding is applicable on a macro basis. Interestingly Peter no longer employs some of his early work because trading markets are not what they were twenty years ago, they continue to evolve and now employ programmed trading, or essentially human derivatives.
Posted by: El Rider at April 18, 2015 12:38 PM (g/2WM)
170
" I asked her if she had accepted the offered pay, "Yes", she replied."
Mike Hammer
Ask if she went to apply at the place that paid more, and if she had talked to her boss about getting more, if he wants to keep her. She should be glad she found others making more ... (all other things being equal) it means SHE is worth more and now has negotiating power.
Mike Hammer
Ask if she went to apply at the place that paid more, and if she had talked to her boss about getting more, if he wants to keep her. She should be glad she found others making more ... (all other things being equal) it means SHE is worth more and now has negotiating power.
Posted by: Illiniwek at April 18, 2015 12:39 PM (QGjci)
171
I'm not ok with that. I believe there is real evil perpetrated within capitalism, and some people seem to want to pretend there isn't.
Posted by: BurtTC at April 18, 2015 12:30 PM (Dj0WE)
Every economic system has people who exploit it. It's up to the individual to be wise enough to spot it. And if you're not...lesson learned, wisdom gained.
Posted by: Captain Whitebread at April 18, 2015 12:33 PM (rJUlF)
People talk about the evils in our education system. If you have a teenage daughter, and she decides she has to go to a good school out of state, and you pay... what, $50K a year to send her there? She gets her education. Which includes leftist indoctrination, by goetee-wearing "professors" who are more interested in getting in her teenage pants than they are indoctrinating her.
She comes home, disillusioned, and more confused than ever.
So you tell her, "sorry honey, you were exploited. You should have been wise enough to spot it."
Is that how this works?
Posted by: BurtTC at April 18, 2015 12:30 PM (Dj0WE)
Every economic system has people who exploit it. It's up to the individual to be wise enough to spot it. And if you're not...lesson learned, wisdom gained.
Posted by: Captain Whitebread at April 18, 2015 12:33 PM (rJUlF)
People talk about the evils in our education system. If you have a teenage daughter, and she decides she has to go to a good school out of state, and you pay... what, $50K a year to send her there? She gets her education. Which includes leftist indoctrination, by goetee-wearing "professors" who are more interested in getting in her teenage pants than they are indoctrinating her.
She comes home, disillusioned, and more confused than ever.
So you tell her, "sorry honey, you were exploited. You should have been wise enough to spot it."
Is that how this works?
Posted by: BurtTC at April 18, 2015 12:42 PM (Dj0WE)
172
Posted by: Gem at April 18, 2015 12:34 PM (e+EMw)
I don't get into arguments about AGW, either way. As a scientist, I find the "evidence" (in quotes because the data have been massaged more than Kobe beef, and in ways that the masseurs refuse to divulge) unconvincing. Being unconvinced, and finding the proposition extraordinary, I default to skepticism. It's that simple.
One way to shut up an apostle of the Church of Global Warming is to ask him what percentage (on a molar basis) of the atmosphere is CO2. I've never yet gotten the correct answer (< 0.05%) from one of the Faithful. The usual guess is 5%.
I don't get into arguments about AGW, either way. As a scientist, I find the "evidence" (in quotes because the data have been massaged more than Kobe beef, and in ways that the masseurs refuse to divulge) unconvincing. Being unconvinced, and finding the proposition extraordinary, I default to skepticism. It's that simple.
One way to shut up an apostle of the Church of Global Warming is to ask him what percentage (on a molar basis) of the atmosphere is CO2. I've never yet gotten the correct answer (< 0.05%) from one of the Faithful. The usual guess is 5%.
Posted by: Jay Guevara at April 18, 2015 12:44 PM (oKE6c)
173
I don't think you can neglect the value that the car buyer places on her $30,000. Because that is also at play in the above example and is the flip side of every transaction.
Besides, in the real world anybody who is plunking down $30,000 for a $12,000 car probably is either independently wealthy or got the money from mom and dad.
Besides, in the real world anybody who is plunking down $30,000 for a $12,000 car probably is either independently wealthy or got the money from mom and dad.
Posted by: Muldoon, a solid man at April 18, 2015 12:45 PM (NeFrd)
174
Marx had a different opinion of "value," something he described in Das Kapital as akin to a cost-basis valuation.
Marx's "labor theory of value" is risibly sophomoric. In it, he posits the value of something is a function of the labor that went into making it. Really? Is a pothole filled with a tea spoon more valuable than one filled with a skiploader?
When I first read the labor theory of value - the fundamental engine of all his theorizing - I was shocked at people taking Marx seriously after coming up with something that silly.
Marx's "labor theory of value" is risibly sophomoric. In it, he posits the value of something is a function of the labor that went into making it. Really? Is a pothole filled with a tea spoon more valuable than one filled with a skiploader?
When I first read the labor theory of value - the fundamental engine of all his theorizing - I was shocked at people taking Marx seriously after coming up with something that silly.
Posted by: Jay Guevara at April 18, 2015 12:47 PM (oKE6c)
175
I'll give you $30,000 dollars right now for that pothole!
Posted by: Muldoon, a solid man at April 18, 2015 12:50 PM (NeFrd)
176
"Willing"
The price of 'X' is what a willing buyer will give a willing seller.
The price of 'X' is what a buyer is willing to pay
The first statement is correct. The second is not correct.
The seller must be willing to accept what the buyer offers to pay.
Governments and others go to great lengths to alter the willingness of a buyer to give, or a seller to accept, a given price. The label you paste on this practice is more likely to obscure than to reveal the fact that naked force is involved.
The price of 'X' is what a willing buyer will give a willing seller.
The price of 'X' is what a buyer is willing to pay
The first statement is correct. The second is not correct.
The seller must be willing to accept what the buyer offers to pay.
Governments and others go to great lengths to alter the willingness of a buyer to give, or a seller to accept, a given price. The label you paste on this practice is more likely to obscure than to reveal the fact that naked force is involved.
Posted by: JimT Utah at April 18, 2015 12:50 PM (ckbBu)
177
Posted by: BurtTC at April 18, 2015 12:42 PM (Dj0WE)
In your example the parents paid money and the student paid time and effort for something with poor potential for gain.
Were they cheated?
No.
They did not do the work they needed to do to measure the potential stored in a college degree.
In your example the parents paid money and the student paid time and effort for something with poor potential for gain.
Were they cheated?
No.
They did not do the work they needed to do to measure the potential stored in a college degree.
Posted by: eman at April 18, 2015 12:53 PM (MQEz6)
178
>>> Do you think I could smack him on the head with an axe? You should be able to smack kids on the head with an axe, shouldn't you?
You mean an axe handle, right? You hit him with an axe head and he won't learn much.
You mean an axe handle, right? You hit him with an axe head and he won't learn much.
Posted by: fluffy at April 18, 2015 12:54 PM (Ua6T/)
179
When I first read the labor theory of value - the fundamental engine of
all his theorizing - I was shocked at people taking Marx seriously after
coming up with something that silly.
It's why I consider Marx to have been a conman. By the time Das Kapital was published there were even octagonal trading pits in Chicago, those things have always featured constantly changing value and that information was easily available to anybody studying or writing on economic matters in London.
all his theorizing - I was shocked at people taking Marx seriously after
coming up with something that silly.
It's why I consider Marx to have been a conman. By the time Das Kapital was published there were even octagonal trading pits in Chicago, those things have always featured constantly changing value and that information was easily available to anybody studying or writing on economic matters in London.
Posted by: El Rider at April 18, 2015 12:55 PM (g/2WM)
180
>>> One way to shut up an apostle of the Church of Global Warming is to ask him what percentage (on a molar basis)
Is that any different than the catastrophic 400 ppm that they wail about?
Is that any different than the catastrophic 400 ppm that they wail about?
Posted by: fluffy at April 18, 2015 12:56 PM (Ua6T/)
181
180 >>> One way to shut up an apostle of the Church of Global Warming is to ask him what percentage (on a molar basis)
Is that any different than the catastrophic 400 ppm that they wail about?
Posted by: fluffy at April 18, 2015 12:56 PM (Ua6T/)
No, not at all. I was just being precise: the percentages quoted are on a molar (i.e., number of molecules) or volume basis (which for a gas is the same as the molar basis), as opposed to, say, a weight basis. Is that clear, or did I just confuse the issue further?
Is that any different than the catastrophic 400 ppm that they wail about?
Posted by: fluffy at April 18, 2015 12:56 PM (Ua6T/)
No, not at all. I was just being precise: the percentages quoted are on a molar (i.e., number of molecules) or volume basis (which for a gas is the same as the molar basis), as opposed to, say, a weight basis. Is that clear, or did I just confuse the issue further?
Posted by: Jay Guevara at April 18, 2015 12:59 PM (oKE6c)
182
the value of something is a function of the labor that went into making it.
-------------
Eaxctly! A guy running a weedeater, and a guy performing an appendectomy should be paid about the same.
-------------
Eaxctly! A guy running a weedeater, and a guy performing an appendectomy should be paid about the same.
Posted by: Elizabeth Warren at April 18, 2015 01:01 PM (XmQBO)
183
In your example the parents paid money and the student paid time and effort for something with poor potential for gain.
Were they cheated?
No.
They did not do the work they needed to do to measure the potential stored in a college degree.
Posted by: eman at April 18, 2015 12:53 PM (MQEz6)
Exactly. My son did the cost-benefit analysis, and it's why he's chosen to not go to college and learn a trade instead.
As much as we'd like to, we can't stop every injustice. People can be stupid, and if we take away that right to be stupid, we take away their freedom of choice.
Were they cheated?
No.
They did not do the work they needed to do to measure the potential stored in a college degree.
Posted by: eman at April 18, 2015 12:53 PM (MQEz6)
Exactly. My son did the cost-benefit analysis, and it's why he's chosen to not go to college and learn a trade instead.
As much as we'd like to, we can't stop every injustice. People can be stupid, and if we take away that right to be stupid, we take away their freedom of choice.
Posted by: Captain Whitebread at April 18, 2015 01:02 PM (rJUlF)
184
Is that clear, or did I just confuse the issue further?
Posted by: Jay
____________
Nope. I got it.
Posted by: Jay
____________
Nope. I got it.
Posted by: Boyle at April 18, 2015 01:02 PM (XmQBO)
185
Value is determined by supply and demand. This is not an axiom of capitalist economics or of human economics; it is a fact of life. For example, plants buy sunlight and water with the resources that they devote to leaves and roots. Leaf surface to root surface ratios vary systematically with the relative abundance of sunlight and water. State-mandated maximum or minimum prices have the same effect that cutting roots or browsing leaves will have.
Posted by: Malcolm Kirkpatrick at April 18, 2015 01:03 PM (IbUUZ)
186
Afterthought: it's the difference between saying there are four men among the 10 people in a room (40% on a number basis), rather than saying there are 800 lbs. of men among the 1500 lbs. of people in the room (ca. 56% on a weight basis).
Posted by: Jay Guevara at April 18, 2015 01:03 PM (oKE6c)
187
Eaxctly! A guy running a weedeater, and a guy performing an appendectomy should be paid about the same.
Posted by: Elizabeth Warren at April 18, 2015 01:01 PM (XmQBO)
Surgeons and muggers both cut people with knives, so muggers should be paid as much as surgeons. They're not, because racism.
Posted by: Elizabeth Warren at April 18, 2015 01:01 PM (XmQBO)
Surgeons and muggers both cut people with knives, so muggers should be paid as much as surgeons. They're not, because racism.
Posted by: Jay Guevara at April 18, 2015 01:05 PM (oKE6c)
188
>>> Is that clear, or did I just confuse the issue further?
Posted by: Jay
__________
Nope. I got it.
Posted by: Boyle at April 18, 2015 01:02 PM (XmQBO)
Heh :--)
Posted by: Jay
__________
Nope. I got it.
Posted by: Boyle at April 18, 2015 01:02 PM (XmQBO)
Heh :--)
Posted by: fluffy at April 18, 2015 01:09 PM (Ua6T/)
189
The following summarizes levels of CO2 under various conditions:
40,000 ppm: The exhaled breath of normal, healthy people.
8,000 ppm: CO2 standard for submarines
2,500 ppm: CO2 level in a small hot crowded bar in the city
2,000 ppm: The point at which my CO2 meter squawks by playing Fur Elise
1,000 to 2,000 ppm: Historical norms for the earth’s atmosphere over the past 550 million years
1,000 to 2,000 ppm: The level of CO2 at which plant growers like to keep their greenhouses
1,000 ppm: Average level in a lecture hall filled with students
600 ppm: CO2 level in my office with two people in it
490 ppm: CO2 level in my office working alone
390 ppm: Current average outdoor level of CO2 in the air
280 ppm: Pre-industrial levels in the air, on the edge of "CO2 famine" for plants
150 ppm: The point below which most plants die of CO2 starvation
40,000 ppm: The exhaled breath of normal, healthy people.
8,000 ppm: CO2 standard for submarines
2,500 ppm: CO2 level in a small hot crowded bar in the city
2,000 ppm: The point at which my CO2 meter squawks by playing Fur Elise
1,000 to 2,000 ppm: Historical norms for the earth’s atmosphere over the past 550 million years
1,000 to 2,000 ppm: The level of CO2 at which plant growers like to keep their greenhouses
1,000 ppm: Average level in a lecture hall filled with students
600 ppm: CO2 level in my office with two people in it
490 ppm: CO2 level in my office working alone
390 ppm: Current average outdoor level of CO2 in the air
280 ppm: Pre-industrial levels in the air, on the edge of "CO2 famine" for plants
150 ppm: The point below which most plants die of CO2 starvation
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at April 18, 2015 01:10 PM (XmQBO)
190
Posted by: eman at April 18, 2015 12:53 PM (MQEz6)
-------------
I'm jumping to BurtTC's aid here and pointing out something that's been missed - not everyone has the same level of knowledge as everyone else, and they shouldn't be defrauded for it. When someone is truly ripped off, it's called "fraud" which is a civil tort and a criminal offense. Many of you are defending "fraud". That's different than someone overpaying for something because they value it more on a personal level or need it more in that moment.
I, for example, am a lawyer, whose father was a mechanic. He taught me a lot, and I am not a stupid man, but I simply do not have the time or the knowledge to repair my new car myself. So I go to an "expert" at the dealer to work on it.
I do not have the time to stand over the mechanic's shoulder to make "sure" he's not ripping me off. I "trust" or expect him to advise me of the actual problem, not bullshiat me to rob me out of an additional $150. If I am knowledgeable enough to catch his bullshiat, I'd either knock him out for attempting to defraud me or make quite a scene then and there to point it out to other customers. But apprently the consensus is if I don't have a 4 year tech school education I deserve to be ripped off. Remind me not to do business with you, and if you come to my office, ya better have some knowledge on the law yourself then.
Not everyone has the time or ability to learn each and every minutiae of every subject they might encounter in life, and that ignorance is not an excuse to rip someone off and write it off as a "lesson learned.".
-------------
I'm jumping to BurtTC's aid here and pointing out something that's been missed - not everyone has the same level of knowledge as everyone else, and they shouldn't be defrauded for it. When someone is truly ripped off, it's called "fraud" which is a civil tort and a criminal offense. Many of you are defending "fraud". That's different than someone overpaying for something because they value it more on a personal level or need it more in that moment.
I, for example, am a lawyer, whose father was a mechanic. He taught me a lot, and I am not a stupid man, but I simply do not have the time or the knowledge to repair my new car myself. So I go to an "expert" at the dealer to work on it.
I do not have the time to stand over the mechanic's shoulder to make "sure" he's not ripping me off. I "trust" or expect him to advise me of the actual problem, not bullshiat me to rob me out of an additional $150. If I am knowledgeable enough to catch his bullshiat, I'd either knock him out for attempting to defraud me or make quite a scene then and there to point it out to other customers. But apprently the consensus is if I don't have a 4 year tech school education I deserve to be ripped off. Remind me not to do business with you, and if you come to my office, ya better have some knowledge on the law yourself then.
Not everyone has the time or ability to learn each and every minutiae of every subject they might encounter in life, and that ignorance is not an excuse to rip someone off and write it off as a "lesson learned.".
Posted by: Saltydonnie at April 18, 2015 01:12 PM (zBwYh)
191
>>> 390 ppm: Current average outdoor level of CO2 in the air
I believe they measured 400 ppm at some remote weather station recently, possibly in Hawaii.
No wonder the polar bears are all emo.
I believe they measured 400 ppm at some remote weather station recently, possibly in Hawaii.
No wonder the polar bears are all emo.
Posted by: fluffy at April 18, 2015 01:14 PM (Ua6T/)
192
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at April 18, 2015 01:10 PM (XmQBO)
Interesting compilation. I didn't know that. Thanks!
Interesting compilation. I didn't know that. Thanks!
Posted by: Jay Guevara at April 18, 2015 01:18 PM (oKE6c)
193
People that go to college do get "cheated" if they are forced into diversity classes, or standards cut so dramatically they need a masters to get a job. Men get chewed up and spit out, which is not in the brochure.
All the leftist lies about fairness and racism and sexism etc. are "cheating", because at the core they are communists, just organized crime with a government kicker, held together with propaganda and force. They have systematically "cheated" us out of those noble ideas of yesteryear.
"Let the buyer beware" yes ... be aware of cheaters.
But that is just semantics I guess. Still, the idea of force and laws and "fair trade" is an important part of our economic system. But hopefully we resolve this by instilling moral character into society, not by hiring more lawyers, making more laws. The falsehoods of government forcing fairness only makes things worse for all but those at the top, which seems to be their intent.
All the leftist lies about fairness and racism and sexism etc. are "cheating", because at the core they are communists, just organized crime with a government kicker, held together with propaganda and force. They have systematically "cheated" us out of those noble ideas of yesteryear.
"Let the buyer beware" yes ... be aware of cheaters.
But that is just semantics I guess. Still, the idea of force and laws and "fair trade" is an important part of our economic system. But hopefully we resolve this by instilling moral character into society, not by hiring more lawyers, making more laws. The falsehoods of government forcing fairness only makes things worse for all but those at the top, which seems to be their intent.
Posted by: Illiniwek at April 18, 2015 01:23 PM (QGjci)
194
She comes home, disillusioned, and more confused than ever.
So you tell her, "sorry honey, you were exploited. You should have been wise enough to spot it."
Is that how this works?
Ummm. Yes? Or at least you should have been?
Look, I failed with Big over the last 3 years. In my defense, he was 2500 miles away, but I FAILED. The values that I instilled before he turned 18 were not sufficient to inoculate him against the leftist bullshit he encountered.
So what now? Now I have the hard slog of reeducating. Not fun for either of us, and stratigic cutting off of support is a part of that education process (someone mentioned this above). That's REALLY, REALLY not fun.
But I don't think anyone should have protected Big from his own idiocy. *I* should have, but I didn't, so now I deal with the consequences (You paid $30K for a 1967 Ford Cortina???!???!!!).
Such is life, and that's perhaps the most fundamental concept of all.
So you tell her, "sorry honey, you were exploited. You should have been wise enough to spot it."
Is that how this works?
Ummm. Yes? Or at least you should have been?
Look, I failed with Big over the last 3 years. In my defense, he was 2500 miles away, but I FAILED. The values that I instilled before he turned 18 were not sufficient to inoculate him against the leftist bullshit he encountered.
So what now? Now I have the hard slog of reeducating. Not fun for either of us, and stratigic cutting off of support is a part of that education process (someone mentioned this above). That's REALLY, REALLY not fun.
But I don't think anyone should have protected Big from his own idiocy. *I* should have, but I didn't, so now I deal with the consequences (You paid $30K for a 1967 Ford Cortina???!???!!!).
Such is life, and that's perhaps the most fundamental concept of all.
Posted by: Weirddave at April 18, 2015 01:26 PM (WvS3w)
195
Posted by: Saltydonnie at April 18, 2015 01:12 PM (zBwYh)
No, BurtTC brought fraud as a failing of capitalism and that *something* must be done to protect those who fall prey to it.
But it is entirely off-topic with regard to Dave's post. It just smacks of moral preening.
No, BurtTC brought fraud as a failing of capitalism and that *something* must be done to protect those who fall prey to it.
But it is entirely off-topic with regard to Dave's post. It just smacks of moral preening.
Posted by: KMG S-Class at April 18, 2015 01:28 PM (YUrE9)
196
Interesting compilation. I didn't know that. Thanks!
Posted by: Jay
----------------
Well..., treat it carefully. It is to make a point, and biases things a hair (but only a hair) to make the point. No one can dispute the numbers very forcefully. Example: The 8000 ppm for submarines, is the maximum, and the bubbleheads would like the number to be typically lower..., but there's no screaming panic when it is at that level.
Posted by: Jay
----------------
Well..., treat it carefully. It is to make a point, and biases things a hair (but only a hair) to make the point. No one can dispute the numbers very forcefully. Example: The 8000 ppm for submarines, is the maximum, and the bubbleheads would like the number to be typically lower..., but there's no screaming panic when it is at that level.
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at April 18, 2015 01:33 PM (XmQBO)
197
Off for my $1.05 cup of coffee and $2.50 grilled ham & cheese sammich at the lunch counter. Gossip alone makes it a great value. Sometimes, it's the intangibles...
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at April 18, 2015 01:37 PM (XmQBO)
198
"490 ppm: CO2 level in my office working alone
390 ppm: Current average outdoor level of CO2 in the air
280 ppm: Pre-industrial levels in the air, on the edge of "CO2 famine" for plants
150 ppm: The point below which most plants die of CO2 starvation"
First great info!
Second, leftists want people to starve hence the push for low CO2.
390 ppm: Current average outdoor level of CO2 in the air
280 ppm: Pre-industrial levels in the air, on the edge of "CO2 famine" for plants
150 ppm: The point below which most plants die of CO2 starvation"
First great info!
Second, leftists want people to starve hence the push for low CO2.
Posted by: Jukin, Former Republican at April 18, 2015 01:44 PM (WGm5T)
199
Posted by: KMG S-Class at April 18, 2015 01:28 PM (YUrE9)
---
It's not that off-topic. Fraud distorts value.
Look, I get the premise of the post, I agree with it, and I'm not a big govt. crusader. This is something that the herd can regulate on its own through the market. How?
Well, I believe that you treat others as they deserve to be treated, and I'm not dismissing being ripped off as a "lesson learned". If that's the rules of the game we're playing, fine. I "learned my lesson" and will now play by those rules, but if you happen to be a schemer, don't quiver your lip and wipe a tear from your eye when I "educate" "you" twice as hard as "you" did me. The Free Market, it is a bitch.
---
It's not that off-topic. Fraud distorts value.
Look, I get the premise of the post, I agree with it, and I'm not a big govt. crusader. This is something that the herd can regulate on its own through the market. How?
Well, I believe that you treat others as they deserve to be treated, and I'm not dismissing being ripped off as a "lesson learned". If that's the rules of the game we're playing, fine. I "learned my lesson" and will now play by those rules, but if you happen to be a schemer, don't quiver your lip and wipe a tear from your eye when I "educate" "you" twice as hard as "you" did me. The Free Market, it is a bitch.
Posted by: Saltydonnie at April 18, 2015 01:50 PM (zBwYh)
200
Posted by: Saltydonnie at April 18, 2015 01:50 PM (zBwYh)
The guy selling the car did not commit fraud.
The buyer was negligent towards his own interests.
He should have done the same thing the seller did: check out the KBB number of that car.
The buyer and seller are not obligated to help each other.
The guy selling the car did not commit fraud.
The buyer was negligent towards his own interests.
He should have done the same thing the seller did: check out the KBB number of that car.
The buyer and seller are not obligated to help each other.
Posted by: eman at April 18, 2015 01:54 PM (MQEz6)
201
153 Had to type in the quote, I guess.
Posted by: KT at April 18, 2015 12:20 PM (qahv/)
KT, sometimes I've just retyped the quotation marks, and dashes and various punctuation, after pasting, and that has somehow magically allowed the quote to be posted. It might be that the source punctuation is made of special characters that aren't recognized in the pixy system, or something like that.
Posted by: KT at April 18, 2015 12:20 PM (qahv/)
KT, sometimes I've just retyped the quotation marks, and dashes and various punctuation, after pasting, and that has somehow magically allowed the quote to be posted. It might be that the source punctuation is made of special characters that aren't recognized in the pixy system, or something like that.
Posted by: m at April 18, 2015 02:05 PM (WIUGG)
202
Y'know, weirddave, maybe you're going about this the wrong way....maybe you could hire Big's "company" for some fixed-price labor-intensive task and tell him to hire some day laborers or friends to make it happen (or make him do it himself, if he can't). There's nothing like hearing a bunch of useless whining when you're approaching deadline to give you an innate appreciation of the true value of labor.
Posted by: cthulhu at April 18, 2015 03:23 PM (T1005)
203
BurtTC and Salty seem to be arguing that w/o state controls there will be lots of fraud in capitalism. This totally neglects the fact that if a car seller spouts 45K for a 12K car she is likely going to have the first 100 potential buyers laugh and walk away from someone who is being crazy and its going to take ages to sell the car.
The mechanic that would cheat has the real risk of someone having a clue and losing 90% of future business when word spreads that that shop cheats.
Yes there will still be some fraud but rational thinking as well as ethics will tend to keep every transaction from becoming "buyer needs to be a genius or have specialized knowledge or they'll surely be cheated unless we super-size the state to protect the most gullible segment of the population"
The mechanic that would cheat has the real risk of someone having a clue and losing 90% of future business when word spreads that that shop cheats.
Yes there will still be some fraud but rational thinking as well as ethics will tend to keep every transaction from becoming "buyer needs to be a genius or have specialized knowledge or they'll surely be cheated unless we super-size the state to protect the most gullible segment of the population"
Posted by: PaleRider at April 18, 2015 03:27 PM (7w/kf)
204
162
I think we (those of us who want to believe in the "value" of looking out for the weak, the stupid, and the needy) need to acknowledge that liars and cheats are lying and cheating within the capitalist system.
I'm not ok with that. I believe there is real evil perpetrated within capitalism, and some people seem to want to pretend there isn't.
Posted by: BurtTC at April 18, 2015 12:30 PM (Dj0WE)
I'm reminded of a quote from somebody in Eastern Europe, after the fall of the Soviet Union:
"The problem with capitalism is capitalists. The problem with socialism is socialism."
I think we (those of us who want to believe in the "value" of looking out for the weak, the stupid, and the needy) need to acknowledge that liars and cheats are lying and cheating within the capitalist system.
I'm not ok with that. I believe there is real evil perpetrated within capitalism, and some people seem to want to pretend there isn't.
Posted by: BurtTC at April 18, 2015 12:30 PM (Dj0WE)
I'm reminded of a quote from somebody in Eastern Europe, after the fall of the Soviet Union:
"The problem with capitalism is capitalists. The problem with socialism is socialism."
Posted by: rickl at April 18, 2015 03:31 PM (sdi6R)
205
Here is a new ad for a nice turtle on the internet--it is being offered for $9,700.00, which includes shipping.
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=526994
Is this turtle really worth $9.7k? In the Obama economy? What is it REALLY worth?
Exactly.
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=526994
Is this turtle really worth $9.7k? In the Obama economy? What is it REALLY worth?
Exactly.
Posted by: JewishOdysseus (@JewishOdysseus) at April 18, 2015 03:35 PM (FWwQD)
206
You are trying logic on Big. SJW talk is all about emotion. I would say something like the following.
Whining aint going to change things and is a waste of effort. Take your best offer, work hard, and pray to God he sends you something better. Otherwise grow tits and a cunt and live off the the government tit.
Whining aint going to change things and is a waste of effort. Take your best offer, work hard, and pray to God he sends you something better. Otherwise grow tits and a cunt and live off the the government tit.
Posted by: Harsh Person at April 18, 2015 03:48 PM (PGh+Q)
207
People infected by leftist brainwashing either snap out of it suddenly or quickly, or not at all. In fact, they sink further and further into denial of reality.
I think the reason why they are so miserable is because they find ways to see the negative and reality does not reflect their world view which they have a huge amount of ego tied into.
I think the reason why they are so miserable is because they find ways to see the negative and reality does not reflect their world view which they have a huge amount of ego tied into.
Posted by: Tilikum Killer Assault Whale at April 18, 2015 04:33 PM (F0Cog)
208
Another beaut of a post, Weirddave!
Maybe try a small bite - and since he brought up the minimum wage -
Say a store (or a group of stores within a company) has a bunch of part-time minimum-wage workers. Weekly payroll is 1500 total hours at $8.75/hour. Tomorrow, the government says the store has to pay the new minimum wage of $15.00/hr. So that happens, starting tomorrow; no getting around it.
You know what else happens tomorrow?
Weekly payroll is reduced to 875 man-hours.
In real life, that happens immediately. Big stores, little stores, mom-and-pop shoppes with two Ps and an E at the end - that happens on that day.
Maybe try a small bite - and since he brought up the minimum wage -
Say a store (or a group of stores within a company) has a bunch of part-time minimum-wage workers. Weekly payroll is 1500 total hours at $8.75/hour. Tomorrow, the government says the store has to pay the new minimum wage of $15.00/hr. So that happens, starting tomorrow; no getting around it.
You know what else happens tomorrow?
Weekly payroll is reduced to 875 man-hours.
In real life, that happens immediately. Big stores, little stores, mom-and-pop shoppes with two Ps and an E at the end - that happens on that day.
Posted by: FireHorse at April 18, 2015 05:21 PM (ldFt4)
209
Dead thread ... but
Efficient market theory says current price ("value") is always right because all the info gets out there efficiently, immediately.
That is sorta being conflated here with "value" being whatever price is paid. KBB value is a fairer "true market value" and someone that over pays a few thousand is just stupid. They did not pay the true "value", they paid more than the efficient market "value" because they were stupid.
Value needs to be more clearly defined, in order to say whatever price is paid is the "value" at the moment. In "efficient markets" value may equal price, but in stupid people buying cars, they just get taken. "Value" is being used in a more pure economic academic sense, but being applied to stupid people that get scammed in paying too much.
It may be legal, unless they rolled back the odometer, then it's a tort. But even if it is legal, it can be unethical, or just slimy. But using the "value" term conflates the economic usage of the word with pricing, or with our "values" as a society.
Happy to clear that up for you .. for free ... so judge for yourself if my comment has value. ha
Efficient market theory says current price ("value") is always right because all the info gets out there efficiently, immediately.
That is sorta being conflated here with "value" being whatever price is paid. KBB value is a fairer "true market value" and someone that over pays a few thousand is just stupid. They did not pay the true "value", they paid more than the efficient market "value" because they were stupid.
Value needs to be more clearly defined, in order to say whatever price is paid is the "value" at the moment. In "efficient markets" value may equal price, but in stupid people buying cars, they just get taken. "Value" is being used in a more pure economic academic sense, but being applied to stupid people that get scammed in paying too much.
It may be legal, unless they rolled back the odometer, then it's a tort. But even if it is legal, it can be unethical, or just slimy. But using the "value" term conflates the economic usage of the word with pricing, or with our "values" as a society.
Happy to clear that up for you .. for free ... so judge for yourself if my comment has value. ha
Posted by: Illiniwek at April 18, 2015 05:57 PM (QGjci)
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