A Lie 20 Years In the Making

"If you like your Blue Cross, you can keep your BC." -- Clinton Administration notes on how to sell their 1994 health care plan, spearheaded by Hilary Clinton.

1994 Clinton adm meeting notes showed Obama-like strategy: "If you like Blue Cross, you can keep your Blue Cross." pic.twitter.com/1CFv56mbZR
— Rebecca Ballhaus (@rebeccaballhaus) April 10, 2015

Posted by: Ace at 12:23 PM

Comments

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1 Hmmm.

Posted by: rhomboid at April 10, 2015 12:24 PM (afQnV)

2 Oneth again?

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this sh1t at April 10, 2015 12:25 PM (0HooB)

3 Shazbot.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this sh1t at April 10, 2015 12:25 PM (0HooB)

4 What difference, at this point, does it make?

Posted by: blaster at April 10, 2015 12:25 PM (1SCXN)

5 It's almost like...they lie all the time.

Posted by: tu3031 at April 10, 2015 12:25 PM (YFFpo)

6 Like they say, "Bros before hoes ..."

Posted by: Adriane is Easily Confused ... at April 10, 2015 12:25 PM (nSOh+)

7 If you like your country that's too damn bad.

Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at April 10, 2015 12:26 PM (W5DcG)

8 That wouldn't have made for a very catchy song.

Posted by: Soup Dragons at April 10, 2015 12:27 PM (3q+ML)

9 A good lie never goes stale, Ace.. everybody knows that..

And, hey! What's with posting pics of those heavy-set gals? Dr. Lecter would call 'em "roomy"...

and I shouldn't really have to say it.. but.. just kidding!

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at April 10, 2015 12:28 PM (so+oy)

10 Still wondering when the reaction to the destruction of private insurance will occur. Perhaps it really won't. Or it's too varied, state to state, to coalesce into a noticeable thing.

But I cannot think of any remotely similar situation in my lifetime, where significant financial/life-circumstance hardship was suddenly imposed on huge numbers of people, all by unconstitutional and obviously indefensible social engineering.

Yet, crickets. Wasn't it something like 800K people in NJ, alone, who got screwed right up front. And a few million in CA?

Of all the head-scratching things that make me wonder where I am in the last few years, this one tops them all (since it is material, direct, and personal to millions).

Posted by: rhomboid at April 10, 2015 12:28 PM (afQnV)

11 The Left plays the long game because they keep the same personnel, talk to one another off the record, and don't have to worry about being exposed by the media. And that's why they win.

Posted by: joncelli at April 10, 2015 12:28 PM (RD7QR)

12 Moo Moo why don't you go milk yourself?

Posted by: freaked at April 10, 2015 12:28 PM (bmwO/)

13 Sounds familiar eh? And on that note I just got back from the hospital. After waiting an hour past my scheduled time for an MRI I remembered I had not drank those two awful bottles of contrast. Had to reschedule so I can wait some more.

I hate Doctors, I hate hospitals, and I hate dealing with insurance companies.

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at April 10, 2015 12:29 PM (wlDny)

14 Naturally, a free market solution that doesn't require a massive increase in government and the reduction of everyone's freedom never enters their minds.

Not to mention the total unconstitutionality of it.

#WASTF

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this sh1t at April 10, 2015 12:29 PM (0HooB)

15 Hey, someone said Ace was awake! This doesn't count.

Posted by: Turd Ferguson at April 10, 2015 12:29 PM (VAsIq)

16 Oops wrong thread. Still applies though.

Posted by: freaked at April 10, 2015 12:29 PM (bmwO/)

17 @defendwallst on Twitter was telling a story told to him by a Secret Service agent about how, during the Lewinsky era, they broke up Hillary choking Bill with the cord of a lamp.

It sounds a little too easy (really? Hillary could overpower Bill?) but I do believe he heard the story, whether or not the source is credible.

The 90s are coming back, people.

Posted by: AmishDude at April 10, 2015 12:29 PM (b65cm)

18 Hil is the walker bound Prog Borg Queen and they all plug into the same Lie Collective.

Posted by: Wonkish Rogue at April 10, 2015 12:30 PM (BQBIT)

19 "We're against doing this via taxes"

LOLsolcopters.

Posted by: Retard Strength Trumps Smart Power at April 10, 2015 12:30 PM (27KAF)

20 The Democrat party could not exist in the world of "The Invention of Lying." (Clever Ricky Gervais movie)

Posted by: Null at April 10, 2015 12:30 PM (xjpRj)

21 "The Democratic Party is criminal organization masquerading as a political party." - Some Conservative Dude

Posted by: Harley Quinn at April 10, 2015 12:30 PM (7uCyt)

22 Lucifer upgraded the Clinton suite to Bolgia 9 a few years ago

Posted by: Ted Kennedy in Hell at April 10, 2015 12:31 PM (ZkP43)

23 If you like your liberty, you can keep your liberty.

Posted by: The Great White Snark at April 10, 2015 12:31 PM (XUKZU)

24 Paid for by an extra 700 dollars every month, and multi thousand deductibles and 30% copays that make your crumpled scaphoid too expensive to attend to and your regular medications necessarily skyrocket. Also don't think of going out of town, let alone out of the country.

Posted by: SarahW at April 10, 2015 12:31 PM (lv2k0)

25

What difference, at this point, does it make?!?1//1?!1/!?!?!!?!??

See, it fits any situation....

Posted by: Hillary Clinton at April 10, 2015 12:31 PM (HSmrB)

26 If you drag a hunn'art (billion) dollahs through a ~~trailer~~ corporate park, yew nevah know what yew'll faind.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at April 10, 2015 12:32 PM (Yp6Vn)

27 The electorate was smart enough to see through these lies in '94; what happened?

Posted by: Turd Ferguson at April 10, 2015 12:32 PM (VAsIq)

28 But healthcare is "fixed" now right? Right?

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at April 10, 2015 12:32 PM (LA7Cm)

29 Ready to be updated/corrected, but the last GOP "alternative" I saw was pathetic - limp, warmed-over noodles of tweaking one or two aspects of the massive state/fed-caused mass dysfunction in medical care markets, nothing more.

Accompanied by the usual bumblng, semi-articulate generalities about "market solutions". Explain concretely. Give actual examples. Ramp up the rhetoric 10,000 percent - to match the reality of the situation.

Nope, just limp incrementalist "reforms" explained in tired vague terms.

Posted by: rhomboid at April 10, 2015 12:32 PM (afQnV)

30 The older I get the more I realize people lie and get away with it.

Those of us that do not are sucker to them. Everyday I see people I use to respect lie.

Everyday. Depressing

Posted by: Nip Sip at April 10, 2015 12:32 PM (0FSuD)

31 wow, even Obama's biggest lie isn't even his. The guy's a cipher, nothing.

Posted by: joe-impeachin44 at April 10, 2015 12:32 PM (lyu9J)

32 Also hand over your most personal data to hackers who only have to wait out the "free" credit monitoring run by sketchy companies.

Posted by: SarahW at April 10, 2015 12:33 PM (lv2k0)

33 But healthcare is "fixed" now right? Right?

-
Yeah, it's the internet that needs fixing now.

Posted by: The Great White Snark at April 10, 2015 12:33 PM (XUKZU)

34 Ballhaus?

Ballhaus?

There's gotta be a joke in here somewhere?

Posted by: Jack N. at April 10, 2015 12:33 PM (XoqA4)

35 Just more evidence that leftists can't advance their agenda unless they lie, obfuscate or personally attack their opponents.

Posted by: locomotivebreath1901 at April 10, 2015 12:33 PM (6PdYo)

36 If you can dodge sniper fire, you can keep Blue Cross!

Posted by: dantesed at April 10, 2015 12:34 PM (88xKn)

37 Is that Billy Jeff's handwriting?

Surprised there aren't doodles of the women he's raped around the edge.

Posted by: fuck you, parasite at April 10, 2015 12:34 PM (9Z8lH)

38 But healthcare is "fixed" now right? Right?

In much the same way as a pet.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this sh1t at April 10, 2015 12:34 PM (0HooB)

39 the truest words ever spoken:

"Everyone lies"

Posted by: TangoNine at April 10, 2015 12:34 PM (x3YFz)

40 I like my left cross, and I can damned sure throw my left cross.

Posted by: Larry Reid, Ready to Party at April 10, 2015 12:34 PM (UlJ3l)

41 Not pictured:

"Do we have any dirt yet on the Supreme Court? Plan may have to wait...

Heil Hillary!"

Posted by: t-bird at April 10, 2015 12:35 PM (FcR7P)

42 So obama couldn't even come up with something original...

Posted by: hello, it's Me Donna ....again at April 10, 2015 12:35 PM (Bn6aD)

43 Still wondering when the reaction to the destruction of private insurance will occur. Perhaps it really won't. Or it's too varied, state to state, to coalesce into a noticeable thing.

But I cannot think of any remotely similar situation in my lifetime, where significant financial/life-circumstance hardship was suddenly imposed on huge numbers of people, all by unconstitutional and obviously indefensible social engineering.

Yet, crickets. Wasn't it something like 800K people in NJ, alone, who got screwed right up front. And a few million in CA?

Of all the head-scratching things that make me wonder where I am in the last few years, this one tops them all (since it is material, direct, and personal to millions).
Posted by: rhomboid
................
gotta disagree, somewhat..

First off.. the individual health insurance market is tiny.. really small..

Secondly.. a lot of the plans before O'care were really shitty plans. They were only cheap because you had to pay for most everything yourself and when the big bills kicked in, insurers would use every trick in the book to not pay and then dump you.

Now.. I say it is your right to buy a shitty plan.. and that is my objection to O'Care..

But very few people were hurt financially in the individual plan market.. you and I and every taxpayer are subsidizing this market now.. over 60% of all plans on that market receive a subsidy..

This is the reason for the crickets.. it's a pretty good deal for most people.. but very costly to the country as a whole.

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at April 10, 2015 12:35 PM (so+oy)

44 Posted by: joncelli at April 10, 2015 12:28 PM (RD7QR)

Agreed....and they also crack the whip and keep the message nice and consistent.

They are simply better at politics than we are.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at April 10, 2015 12:36 PM (ecMUl)

45 I don't think this war on women crap is going to protect Hillary! Lots and lots of people really don't like this old twat and there are lots of paybacks coming.

Posted by: JackStraw at April 10, 2015 12:36 PM (g1DWB)

46 17 @defendwallst on Twitter was telling a story told to him by a Secret Service agent about how, during the Lewinsky era, they broke up Hillary choking Bill with the cord of a lamp.

It sounds a little too easy (really? Hillary could overpower Bill?) but I do believe he heard the story, whether or not the source is credible.

The 90s are coming back, people.
Posted by: AmishDude at April 10, 2015 12:29 PM (b65cm)

If she got the drop on him, she may have been able to get the cord around his neck and start choking him.

Also, Bill doesn't strike me as a man that is physically strong enough to protect himself. There is no record of him playing any competitive sports growing up, and Hillary definitely has the lower body weight to be able to get some good leverage while choking him.

Posted by: Ashley Judd's Puffy Scamper, formerly MrCaniac at April 10, 2015 12:36 PM (+Fae7)

47
If you can dodge sniper fire, you can keep Blue Cross!

Posted by: dantesed at April 10, 2015 12:34 PM (88xKn)

hah!

Hillary: "there I was. Black on ammo with nothing but my Rascal and the sounds of screaming..."

Posted by: TangoNine at April 10, 2015 12:36 PM (x3YFz)

48 correction - 85% of people on ACA plans receive a subsidy!

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at April 10, 2015 12:37 PM (so+oy)

49 wow, even Obama's biggest lie isn't even his. The guy's a cipher, nothing. Posted by: joe-impeachin44 at April 10, 2015 12:32 PM (lyu9J)

No wonder Hillary looks so ticked all the time...Obama bogartin' all the good stuff!

Posted by: LizLem at April 10, 2015 12:37 PM (yRwC8)

50 27
The electorate was smart enough to see through these lies in '94; what happened?

Posted by: Turd Ferguson at April 10, 2015 12:32 PM (VAsIq)

You had the perfect storm; the combining of racist voters who vote only based on race and the FSA wanting their free shit. And on top of that the Republicans running another "electable moderate".

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at April 10, 2015 12:37 PM (wlDny)

51 If you like your STDs, you can keep your STDs. In fact, it's really hard to NOT keep your STDs. I'm so sorry.

I'm so drunk.

I'm so lonely.

Posted by: James Bond at April 10, 2015 12:38 PM (VAsIq)

52
Yeah, but Bush or Iraq or something.

Posted by: Judd Legum at April 10, 2015 12:38 PM (OD2ni)

53 They are simply better at politics than we are.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo
________________

And we're better at life than they are.

Posted by: Furious George at April 10, 2015 12:38 PM (UlJ3l)

54 It's funny. It never seems to occur to the Left that if you have to lie to achieve your ends then mayhap you need to reconsider if those ends are worthy of being achieved.

Posted by: alexthechick - From the corner of Chocolate and Peanut Butter at April 10, 2015 12:38 PM (mf5HN)

55 T Ferguson, a point I ponder frequently in this regard.

In 1993, as one would expect, the various interested parties rose up and killed this idiotic thing in its crib.

Last time? Perfectly mirroring what seems to have become of the country ..... crickets. Sure, unanimous GOP votes agin', etc. Lawsuits. Which ended up dead-ending due to the collapse of the rule of law (the idiocy of Roberts and his 4 alien authoritarian "colleagues").

But the insurance companies? Meek, rent-seeking, weaselly surrender.

Posted by: rhomboid at April 10, 2015 12:38 PM (afQnV)

56 The 90s are coming back, people.

Think I'd rather have the 70's instead.
I'm sure some would disagree but it was a good time for me.
At least it was an interesting time but I guess that's what's coming too.

Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at April 10, 2015 12:38 PM (W5DcG)

57 Is that "Elements Treasure" or "Elements Treason"???

Posted by: andycanuck at April 10, 2015 12:38 PM (kivUY)

58 If you like your current binky, you can keep it. Unless I take it.

Posted by: Joe Biden at April 10, 2015 12:39 PM (8ZskC)

59
Hillary choking Bill with the cord of a lamp.

It's all true, well mostly all true,, actually it was a dual headed dildo....

Posted by: Hillary Clinton at April 10, 2015 12:39 PM (HSmrB)

60 I like my left cross, and I can damned sure throw my left cross.

Posted by: Larry Reid, Ready to Party

-
Hairy can't see a damn thing out of his right eye so that goes together like chocolate and peanut butter.

Posted by: The Great White Snark at April 10, 2015 12:39 PM (XUKZU)

61 >>>>48 correction - 85% of people on ACA plans receive a subsidy!
.
.
.
.Here in Kentucky that was the rate of people qualifying for Medicaid signing up for Obamacare.

Posted by: The Great White Scotsman at April 10, 2015 12:40 PM (HP6cv)

62 If you look at the dozens of Yelp reviews for Covered California, I would say customers are NOT satisfied and people WERE hurt by this. Sadly, for some reason, Californians cannot seem to apply logic to their lives...instead of voting out the liberals in CA, they seem to keep voting more IN.

http://www.yelp.com/biz/covered-california-sacramento

Posted by: KG at April 10, 2015 12:40 PM (9VTCD)

63 Think I'd rather have the 70's instead.

I'm sure some would disagree but it was a good time for me.

At least it was an interesting time but I guess that's what's coming too.

Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at April 10, 2015 12:38 PM (W5DcG)

hammer time!

Posted by: TangoNine at April 10, 2015 12:40 PM (x3YFz)

64 >>It's funny. It never seems to occur to the Left that if you have to lie to achieve your ends then mayhap you need to reconsider if those ends are worthy of being achieved.

That thought occurs to me all the time. They know the shit they are supporting needs to be lied about in order to get it passed and they see no problem with that. Mind boggling.

Posted by: JackStraw at April 10, 2015 12:40 PM (g1DWB)

65 Hillary choking Bill with the cord of a lamp.

It's all true, well mostly all true,, actually it was a dual headed dildo....

Still accurate.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this sh1t at April 10, 2015 12:40 PM (0HooB)

66 When you don't have to worry about where your next meal comes from you can be cavalier with regard to how your policy affects the little people.

Posted by: hadoop at April 10, 2015 12:40 PM (2X7pN)

67 27 The electorate was smart enough to see through these lies in '94; what happened?
Posted by: Turd Ferguson at April 10, 2015 12:32 PM (VAsIq)

Now, let's not go around blaming everyone for Bill Clinton getting elected in 92. We all know it was George HW Bush's fault for targeting my kids for elimination.

Posted by: H. Ross Perot at April 10, 2015 12:40 PM (+Fae7)

68 It's funny. It never seems to occur to the Left that if you have to lie to achieve your ends then mayhap you need to reconsider if those ends are worthy of being achieved.

Posted by: alexthechick - From the corner of Chocolate and Peanut Butter at April 10, 2015 12:38 PM (mf5HN)

The ends are worthy of being achieved because they are the Left's ends.

Posted by: Mikey NTH - Internecine Squabbles Coming to the Outrage Outlet! at April 10, 2015 12:40 PM (hLRSq)

69 It's funny. It never seems to occur to the Left that if you have to lie to achieve your ends then mayhap you need to reconsider if those ends are worthy of being achieved.

Omelets require broken eggs. Lots of broken eggs.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at April 10, 2015 12:41 PM (8ZskC)

70
'Think I'd rather have the 70's instead.'

Coming from the man who never was that's something. Pick any decade and he choses the 70s.

It was pretty good though. The best part was finishing High School. What a relief.

Posted by: freaked at April 10, 2015 12:42 PM (bmwO/)

71 55
T Ferguson, a point I ponder frequently in this regard.

In 1993, as one would expect, the various interested parties rose up and killed this idiotic thing in its crib.

Last time? Perfectly mirroring what seems to have become of the
country ..... crickets. Sure, unanimous GOP votes agin', etc. Lawsuits.
Which ended up dead-ending due to the collapse of the rule of law (the
idiocy of Roberts and his 4 alien authoritarian "colleagues").

But the insurance companies? Meek, rent-seeking, weaselly surrender.

Posted by: rhomboid at April 10, 2015 12:38 PM (afQnV)

But still it would not have happened without 60 votes in the Senate.

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at April 10, 2015 12:42 PM (wlDny)

72 @defendwallst on Twitter was telling a story told to him by a Secret Service agent about how, during the Lewinsky era, they broke up Hillary choking Bill with the cord of a lamp.

Shit, I didn't realise they'd been utter fuck-ups for so long.

"Umm, excuse me, Mrs. Clinton. You need to put a stick or a table leg in the loop here, & twist. It gives you a lot better leverage."

Posted by: Snoodling World Champ 1997 at April 10, 2015 12:42 PM (Q819Q)

73 54 It's funny. It never seems to occur to the Left that if you have to lie to achieve your ends then mayhap you need to reconsider if those ends are worthy of being achieved.
Posted by: alexthechick - From the corner of Chocolate and Peanut Butter at April 10, 2015 12:38 PM (mf5HN)

Pshaw. The Left can't be wrong so it must be the peons who are wrong! The Left is only doing what's best for them.

Posted by: joncelli at April 10, 2015 12:42 PM (RD7QR)

74 55 T Ferguson, a point I ponder frequently in this regard.

In 1993, as one would expect, the various interested parties rose up and killed this idiotic thing in its crib.

Posted by: rhomboid
____________________

IIRC, Bob Dole was reaching across the aisle trying to cut a deal and snatch defeat from the jaws of victory in the summer of '93.

Posted by: Furious George at April 10, 2015 12:42 PM (UlJ3l)

75 The 90s are coming back, people.
Posted by: AmishDude at April 10, 2015 12:29 PM (b65cm)

But not the 90's tax rates or economy, boo. Or having a tenacious speaker of the house; would trade Orange for Newt in a second.

If these fashions make a comeback as a result of Hildabeest in office, I am so done with life and all the things: http://preview.tinyurl.com/m5w4294

Posted by: LizLem at April 10, 2015 12:43 PM (yRwC8)

76 The 90s are coming back, people.
----

Then that means....we get a do-over on Star Wars Episode I!

Posted by: Turd Ferguson at April 10, 2015 12:43 PM (VAsIq)

77
Hillary choking Bill with the cord of a lamp.

Wish she tried that with me. I might have had a chance...

Posted by: The Ghost of Vince Foster at April 10, 2015 12:44 PM (YFFpo)

78 It's like a lazy joke: just because two comedians tell the same awful white people dance like this joke doesn't mean one stole from the other.

Same here, President Boyfriend wouldn't never deign to talk to Hillary or Bill about healthcare, so it's just the same old politician ejecta.

Posted by: Chupacabras at April 10, 2015 12:44 PM (XiVKO)

79 What about broken progressive liberals. A long overdue trip to the woodshed is due. I would have used the behind the barn analogy although don't think they have a pair to make the trip.

Posted by: OTB at April 10, 2015 12:44 PM (ShdUd)

80 >>> Hillary choking Bill with the cord of a lamp.

sounds like goooood times...

Posted by: David Carradine at April 10, 2015 12:45 PM (yRwC8)

81 Who knew the Clinton gang was into the kinky stuff?

Posted by: Arson Wells at April 10, 2015 12:45 PM (UnJ7w)

82 Holy hell, it's Larry F'n Correia in the pod cast.

Posted by: Draki at April 10, 2015 12:46 PM (pmv/9)

83

That's a good one... Have I ever told you the one about the 'shovel-ready jobs'???

Posted by: Shecky Soetoro at April 10, 2015 12:46 PM (kFxpe)

84 If the insurance companies had worked together to defeat ObamaNoCare, like they did in 1994, it would have been DOA in the US Senate.

The US Senate passed it because they knew the insurance companies had been cut in on the scam, and that those "risk corridors" would pay the insurance companies billions of taxpayer dollars to go along.

When corporate rent-seeking big business unites with the government against the people, that's when the people get screwed.

Posted by: Boots at April 10, 2015 12:46 PM (l9mF2)

85 "We're against doing this via taxes."

"Paid for by new people being insured."

"Also, a small gnome lives in Warren Christopher's colon. The gnome is a St. Louis Blues fan."

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at April 10, 2015 12:46 PM (659DL)

86 Who knew the Clinton gang was into the kinky stuff?

---

I was tangentially aware....

Posted by: Huma at April 10, 2015 12:46 PM (VAsIq)

87 Baby, I have nothing but the best intentions for us. Now drop your panties and trust me

Posted by: Haven Monahan at April 10, 2015 12:46 PM (UzPAd)

88 55 T Ferguson, a point I ponder frequently in this regard.

In 1993, as one would expect, the various interested parties rose up and killed this idiotic thing in its crib.

Last time? Perfectly mirroring what seems to have become of the country ..... crickets. Sure, unanimous GOP votes agin', etc. Lawsuits. Which ended up dead-ending due to the collapse of the rule of law (the idiocy of Roberts and his 4 alien authoritarian "colleagues").

But the insurance companies? Meek, rent-seeking, weaselly surrender.

Posted by: rhomboid at April 10, 2015 12:38 PM (afQnV)

Clinton would not have won if Ross Perot hadn't been brought in as a stalking horse. He got all kinds of media coverage attacking Bush and Dole, but never seemed to go on the attack against Clinton.

Much like how the "Libertarian" candidate in Virginia suddenly got all kinds of attention when he ran for Governor in 2013 and again in 2014 when he ran for Senate. Both times he siphoned enough votes from the GOP to tilt the election to the Dems.

Posted by: Ashley Judd's Puffy Scamper, formerly MrCaniac at April 10, 2015 12:47 PM (+Fae7)

89 I saw you staring from the closet Huma!

Posted by: Hillary's choke collar at April 10, 2015 12:48 PM (UnJ7w)

90 Chi-town, I reject your "shitty plan" premise - or at least, it's not plausible without documentation. In CA, as misregulated and over-regulated an insurance "market" as exists, individual plans were 1/4 the price they are now (for comparable coverage). That's one quarter. Perfectly "good" plans for the majority of healthy people who don't run to a doctor for a head cold.

Yet there were lots of "shitty" plans in other states? Possible, not plausible.

Look, even the pre-ACA insurance "market" wasn't a market, due to state and federal interference, cost-shifting, cross-subsidies, etc. So my old plans should have been 1/2 the cost (based on, you know, actual insurance things like actuarial science). But now things are simply unaffordable.

Of course if even partially unleashed from ruinous and idiotic interference, real insurance could be had for a small fraction of the current cost and much less than the old. Perfectly good plans.

Anyway, it's rather special to be, as you put it, part of a tiny minority. Tiny minority of people essentially attacked by an unconstitutional govt., with the indifference of those not directly affected (incl. most "conservatives").

Posted by: rhomboid at April 10, 2015 12:48 PM (afQnV)

91 Obamacare hasn't fully taken effect yet. There is still the cadillac tax on gold plated health insurance policies paid for by employers. That tax takes effect 2018 and is 40% of the value of the policy.

Posted by: Lash Taxman at April 10, 2015 12:48 PM (yxYdx)

92
"IIRC, Bob Dole was reaching across the aisle trying to cut a deal and snatch defeat from the jaws of victory in the summer of '93."

Yeah, but Gingrich began to overtake the squish Bob Michel in the House and Dole still had guys like Helms there to keep him honest.

Posted by: Benji Carver at April 10, 2015 12:48 PM (OD2ni)

93 Clinton would not have won if Ross Perot hadn't been brought in as a stalking horse.

-----

If John Kerry and Elizabeth Warren had a son, he would be named Stalking Horse.

Posted by: Turd Ferguson at April 10, 2015 12:48 PM (VAsIq)

94 Put up the Ewok signal Larry F'n Correia is on the pod cast.

Posted by: Draki at April 10, 2015 12:49 PM (pmv/9)

95 Clinton would not have won if Ross Perot hadn't been brought in as a stalking horse.

Back up a couple of hypotheticals.

"No new taxes."

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at April 10, 2015 12:49 PM (659DL)

96 based on, you know, actual insurance things like actuarial science)
Posted by: rhomboid

Actuarial Science!? He's a witch!

Posted by: Leftists at April 10, 2015 12:50 PM (VAsIq)

97
"Clinton would not have won if Ross Perot hadn't been brought in as a stalking horse. He got all kinds of media coverage attacking Bush and Dole, but never seemed to go on the attack against Clinton."

Don't forget about me!!!!

Posted by: Ponytail Guy from 1992 Townhall debate at April 10, 2015 12:50 PM (OD2ni)

98 I have Aetna. So this doesn't apply to me.

Posted by: LIV at April 10, 2015 12:51 PM (0LHZx)

99 27 The electorate was smart enough to see through these lies in '94; what happened?
Posted by: Turd Ferguson at April 10, 2015 12:32 PM (VAsIq)

Were you in a come in 1996?

Posted by: Not a dirty Ashe Schow pun at April 10, 2015 12:51 PM (iDL6l)

100 It never seems to occur to the Left that if you have to lie to achieve your ends then mayhap you need to reconsider

But if you don't lie, only deserving ideas will get implemented...

Posted by: t-bird at April 10, 2015 12:51 PM (FcR7P)

101 Clinton would not have won if Ross Perot hadn't been brought in as a stalking horse.

Is that actually true or is it just something everyone says?

Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at April 10, 2015 12:51 PM (W5DcG)

102 Oh boy.

Posted by: Not a dirty Ashe Schow pun at April 10, 2015 12:51 PM (iDL6l)

103
If John Kerry and Elizabeth Warren had a son, he would be named Stalking Horse.

Posted by: Turd Ferguson at April 10, 2015 12:48 PM (VAsIq)

------------------------

*golf clap*

Now,, shut your whore mouth....

Posted by: Hillary Clinton at April 10, 2015 12:51 PM (HSmrB)

104 Democrats made sure Big Pharma got paid off for ObamaCare, that was the industry that delivered the death blow to HillaryCare last time around. Rahm remembered that lesson well.

Big Business is definitely no friend to conservative causes. At one time it was, they just wanted to be left alone, but that was generations ago. Now most businesses are looking for subsidies and protection from the government. Anything but being left alone.

Conservatives needs to strike a more populist tone. ObamaCare is most definitely a creature of big business.

Posted by: McAdams at April 10, 2015 12:51 PM (Knl+7)

105 The electorate was smart enough to see through these lies in '94; what happened?

The 1996 GOP presidential candidates were, get this, worse than the 2012 field. No, really.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at April 10, 2015 12:52 PM (659DL)

106 Clinton would not have won if Ross Perot hadn't been
brought in as a stalking horse. He got all kinds of media coverage
attacking Bush and Dole, but never seemed to go on the attack against
Clinton.

Posted by: Ashley Judd's Puffy Scamper, formerly MrCaniac at April 10, 2015 12:47 PM (+Fae7)

Ask yourself why. Then ask yourself why you've never heard from him again. Then follow the money.

Posted by: TangoNine at April 10, 2015 12:52 PM (x3YFz)

107 If John Kerry and Elizabeth Warren had a son, he would be named Stalking Horse.
Posted by: Turd Ferguson at April 10, 2015 12:48 PM (VAsIq)

AHEM. It would be "He who stalks with horses" in tribute to my native roots. Racist mouthbreathing rightwingers, get it right!

Posted by: Lizzy "she who speaks with forked tongue" Warren at April 10, 2015 12:52 PM (yRwC8)

108 Were you in a come in 1996?

Posted by: Not a dirty Ashe Schow pun

----
1) I'm going to assume you meant "coma"
2) No, but I was in sixth grade. My memories are mostly of recess soccer.

Posted by: Turd Ferguson at April 10, 2015 12:53 PM (VAsIq)

109 Clinton would not have won if Ross Perot hadn't been brought in as a stalking horse. He got all kinds of media coverage attacking Bush and Dole, but never seemed to go on the attack against Clinton

_____________

Perot got a lot of votes from people who weren't going to vote in the first place and votes from people who wanted to vote against Bush, but didn't like Clinton.

Clinton would have won with or without Perot.

Posted by: LIV at April 10, 2015 12:53 PM (0LHZx)

110 Ponytail Guy from 1992 Townhall debate at April 10, 2015 12:50 PM (OD2ni)
Ponytail guy of 2016 will be a transgendered person.

Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at April 10, 2015 12:53 PM (W5DcG)

111 Democrats made sure Big Pharma got paid off for ObamaCare

The prescription drug benefit waves.

Next to the creation of the DHS and TARP, it was the worst policy decision from Dubya.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at April 10, 2015 12:53 PM (659DL)

112 OT sock link: French TV network easily hacked because background video/photos showed passwords pinned to workers' desk-stations etc. (H/T the award-winning Small Dead Animals blog.)

Posted by: andycanuck at April 10, 2015 12:54 PM (kivUY)

113 "He who stalks with horses"

SEXIST

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at April 10, 2015 12:54 PM (659DL)

114 Off the end of the page: "We didn't start it, the Poles attacked our radio station."

Posted by: Jay Guevara at April 10, 2015 12:54 PM (oKE6c)

115 I loved the 70's! Young, dumb, and full of.....ahhh those were the days.

Posted by: Bosk at April 10, 2015 12:55 PM (n2K+4)

116 Same as it evah was?

Also, just read Biden put a baby's pacifier in his ass. Or something.

Posted by: Todd Bridges, first to go bad, last to go down at April 10, 2015 12:55 PM (JOFI1)

117 2) No, but I was in sixth grade. My memories are mostly of recess soccer.

Point is: the same electorate that succeeded in 1994 (4th grade?) Failed in 1996 to remove the exexutive. And had a worse 1998.

Posted by: Not a dirty Ashe Schow pun at April 10, 2015 12:55 PM (iDL6l)

118 91 Obamacare hasn't fully taken effect yet. There is still the cadillac tax on gold plated health insurance policies paid for by employers. That tax takes effect 2018 and is 40% of the value of the policy.

Posted by: Lash Taxman at April 10, 2015 12:48 PM (yxYdx)

_________

Prediction: This tax will never see the light of day. Either it will be repealed or most likely President Hillary will issue an EO telling the IRS not to collect.

This tax is going to hurt union plans and no way a Democrat allows that to happen.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at April 10, 2015 12:55 PM (0LHZx)

119 The Left is one movement, not a bunch of small ones.

Posted by: Zap Rowsdower at April 10, 2015 12:55 PM (oVJmc)

120 Conservatives needs to strike a more populist tone. ObamaCare is most definitely a creature of big business.
Posted by: McAdams
_________________

This is where conservatives and Republicans don't mix. The GOPe is going to cater to big business.

A cheerful conservative populist can win. A cheerful conservative populist with the soul of an anarchist is capable of slowing down our rendezvous with doom.

Posted by: Furious George at April 10, 2015 12:56 PM (UlJ3l)

121 andycanuck,

HAH! So simple!

Posted by: ace at April 10, 2015 12:56 PM (PA7DS)

122 Now, can you please surrender gracefully?

Posted by: The Official Walker Tennis Ball of Hillary! Campaign at April 10, 2015 12:56 PM (FCsIb)

123 Of course if even partially unleashed from ruinous and idiotic interference, real insurance could be had for a small fraction of the current cost and much less than the old. Perfectly good plans.

Anyway, it's rather special to be, as you put it, part of a tiny minority. Tiny minority of people essentially attacked by an unconstitutional govt., with the indifference of those not directly affected (incl. most "conservatives").
Posted by: rhomboid
.........

Sorry.. I was not arguing that ACA is better than before.. The ACA plans on the individual market have advantages for sick people who couild not even get ANY insurance before.

The question I responded to was wondering why "crickets" about ACA now.

And my answer is that the majority of people on that market have been bought off by the government. Yes, their premiums may be higher, but the subsidies alleviate that in part or in whole.

If you make too much to get a subsidy, and/or are healthy, ACA plans are really a shitty deal for you.. You are paying for everyone else.

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at April 10, 2015 12:57 PM (so+oy)

124 If you were amazed that O-care involved basically pulling HillaryCare out of a drawer, dusting it off, changing the dates and adding a couple of "the Secretary shall" clauses, you're really going to love Obama's dusted-off version of FDR's Second Bill of Rights.

Posted by: Muldoon, a solid man at April 10, 2015 12:57 PM (NeFrd)

125 Point is: the same electorate that succeeded in 1994 (4th grade?) Failed in 1996 to remove the exexutive. And had a worse 1998.
Posted by: Not a dirty Ashe Schow pun at April 10, 2015 12:55 PM (iDL6l)

________

Well two reasons:

1. The electorate in '94 wasn't the same as in '96. Mid-term electorates are different than prezzy year electorates. This is always the case and yet for some reason many people refuse to understand it. Same shit today when people thought that after 2010, Obama would lose in 2012. It doesn't work like that.

2. By 1996 the economy was in full boom mode and people had forgotten about HillaryCare which was 3 years old by that time.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at April 10, 2015 12:57 PM (0LHZx)

126 According to the drudge link, there will be 60 million menopausal women in USA by 2020...

Are that many hot flashes at one time yet another cause of global warming? Only Obama can put us some knowledge, since he is an expert on these things!

Also, LOVE that Drudge grouped that with the Hillary running news, lol, Is why he is one of the best!

Posted by: LizLem at April 10, 2015 12:58 PM (yRwC8)

127 No fan of HW Bush, but the '92 and '96 elections were a good example of what happened when conservatives got pissed and went elsewhere, and so as revenge, we got two terms of Clinton and now we're looking down the barrel of Hillary!

And what lesson was "learned" by the Establishment after those losses when we showed we would eat our own? We got Bush's own son as President. Boy that lesson I'm sure was seared into their memory.

Posted by: McAdams at April 10, 2015 12:58 PM (Knl+7)

128 "He who stalks with horses"

SEXIST

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here)

---

Also, considering parentage, sexless.

Posted by: Turd Ferguson at April 10, 2015 12:58 PM (VAsIq)

129 Don't worry, kids.

This "foreign policy" we're enjoying right now? All Barky. Every single last embarrassing bit of it, free of those annoying "big thoughts and big words".

Posted by: bigpinkfluffybunny at April 10, 2015 12:58 PM (h8UWI)

130 PRO TIP: You don't have to stalk the horse if it's tied up.

Posted by: Andrew Mendoza and His Bucket at April 10, 2015 12:58 PM (8ZskC)

131 Politicians lie and over promise? STOP THE PRESSES!!!

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at April 10, 2015 12:58 PM (F2IAQ)

132 A lie told in pursuit of the collective good is the truth.

Posted by: Stuff thought,if not actually said, by Hillary, Trotsky, and Satan at April 10, 2015 12:58 PM (bb5We)

133 "My
accomplishments as First Lady? Well, I'm glad you asked! My

proudest accomplishment in which I take the most pride, mostly because

of the opposition it faced early on, you know, the remnants of prior

situations and mindsets that were too narrowly focused in a manner

whereby they may have overlooked the bigger picture and we didn't do

that and I'm proud of that. Very proud. I would say that's a major

accomplishment."

Posted by: Mr Wizard at April 10, 2015 12:59 PM (eOpVe)

134 >>Big Business is definitely no friend to conservative causes. At one time it was, they just wanted to be left alone, but that was generations ago. Now most businesses are looking for subsidies and protection from the government. Anything but being left alone.

Who is to blame here? It's virtually impossible to run a business of any size and not have to deal with the government these days.

Gut federal regulations and let business operate on whats best for them and I bet you will see business retreat from government rent seeking.

Posted by: JackStraw at April 10, 2015 12:59 PM (g1DWB)

135 We need Dr. Neil deGrasse Tyson on the hacking thing!

Twitter (3 Jan)

Obama authorized North Korea sanctions over cyber hacking. Solution there, it seems to me, is to create unhackable systems.

Posted by: Jay in Ames at April 10, 2015 12:59 PM (i2Lsf)

136
OT sock link: French TV network easily hacked because background
video/photos showed passwords pinned to workers' desk-stations etc. (H/T
the award-winning Small Dead Animals blog.)

Posted by: andy at April 10, 2015 12:54 PM (kivUY)

as a side note, I pointed out yesterday that the cyber security threat is currently "omgomgomg"

turtle up your bits (your 1's and 0's... not the other ones) and for crying outloud do *not* dl any pron.

it's a nerd war.

Posted by: TangoNine at April 10, 2015 01:00 PM (x3YFz)

137 Ponytail guy of 2016 will be a transgendered person.
Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr.
______________________

NO! The President told me that if I like my gender, I can keep my gender

Posted by: Dr. Ponytail Douchebag at Rose Garden Reception at April 10, 2015 01:00 PM (UlJ3l)

138 Clinton would not have won if Ross Perot hadn't been brought in as a stalking horse.

Is that actually true or is it just something everyone says?
Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at April 10, 2015 12:51 PM (W5DcG)

Hard to say. Having lived through that election, I know a good many of my relatives truly & honestly thought that GHWB deserved to lose after welching on the whole "No new taxes" thing. Perot's campaign basically grew out of that one broken promise, & had one goal: keep Bush from being re-elected. In that aspect, Perot succeeded brilliantly. It's a damned shame it led to Clinton being elected, not so much because he was a shitty president (though he certainly was shitty) but because it stuck this once proud nation with the hideous trailer park shrew who very well could beat Jeb in 2016.

Posted by: Snoodling World Champ 1997 at April 10, 2015 01:01 PM (Q819Q)

139 And my answer is that the majority of people on that market have been bought off by the government. Yes, their premiums may be higher, but the subsidies alleviate that in part or in whole.

If you make too much to get a subsidy, and/or are healthy, ACA plans are really a shitty deal for you.. You are paying for everyone else.
Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at April 10, 2015 12:57 PM (so+oy)

____________

Yep.

Obamacare is awesome for the poor and even a good chunk of the middle class. You get virtually free health insurance with very low deductibles. What's not to like?

And before someone chimes in with "but deductibles are $10,000, how can you say that's a good deal"....they're not $10,000 for everyone. They're $10,000 for evil rich (usually white) people. For someone making $20K a year, the premium AND deductible as subsidized by the govt.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at April 10, 2015 01:01 PM (0LHZx)

140 So could the Secret Service been allolwed to shoot Hillary if they couldn't over power her while she was choking Bill?

Posted by: JoeF. at April 10, 2015 01:01 PM (YOVBT)

141 Liz Warren admirer: "Whatcha doin' Liz?"

Liz Warren: "Getting ready to cook dinner."

Admirer: "Great. Ya got crabs?"

Liz: "Yeah, but I'm gonna cook dinner anyway."

Posted by: Muldoon, a solid man at April 10, 2015 01:01 PM (NeFrd)

142 >>> OT sock link: French TV network easily hacked because background video/photos showed passwords pinned to workers' desk-stations etc.

Ladies and gentlemen, your supposed betters. *rolls eyes* Were the passwords 1-2-3-4?

Posted by: LizLem at April 10, 2015 01:01 PM (yRwC8)

143 Posted by: Mr Wizard at April 10, 2015 12:59 PM (eOpVe)

Disturbingly well done.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at April 10, 2015 01:01 PM (oKE6c)

144 Boots summed it up better than I did, well said. There's a desperate shortage of Americans in America, esp. in the institutions, public and private, that together were the guard-rails keeping the place on track through history.

In CA, many face a choice between "mortgage payment-size insurance bill,or Medicaid" now. That's my choice. I've gone with temporary insurance, so I get to begin my game of cat/mouse with the IRS to make sure I don't have a refund that will be nicked for the Roberts "Tax".

Of course some day an opposition party might win the Congress and fix things, or at least stop the destruction. Or maybe that's unrealistic to expect.

Anyway, it's been enlightening. Not a single person I know, apart from a tiny handful of aware and sophisticated ones who are always in a separate category, has any idea what's happening, since it isn't happening to them. They are shocked when I tell them the situation. This includes many as "right wing" as anybody here.

Posted by: rhomboid at April 10, 2015 01:01 PM (afQnV)

145 "My accomplishments as First Lady? Well, I'm glad you asked! My proudest accomplishment in which I take the most pride, mostly because of the opposition it faced early on, you know, the remnants of prior situations and mindsets that were too narrowly focused in a manner whereby they may have overlooked the bigger picture and we didn't do that and I'm proud of that. Very proud. I would say that's a major accomplishment."

Heh.

And then there was also the air miles. Lots of air miles.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at April 10, 2015 01:02 PM (8ZskC)

146 now we're looking down the barrel of Hillary!

---

Phrasing!

Posted by: Turd Ferguson at April 10, 2015 01:02 PM (VAsIq)

147 So could the Secret Service been allolwed to shoot Hillary if they couldn't over power her while she was choking Bill?

Let's ask the Saudi fatwa guy.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at April 10, 2015 01:02 PM (659DL)

148 Paid for by new people being insured. Not enough of them....of course not. So have start by making those with insurance uninsured. Brilliant plan. And charge them enough for the others. You had to pass it to read it.

This is like the little bubbles forming at the bottom of the pan just before it goes into a full rolling boil.

Posted by: just bob at April 10, 2015 01:02 PM (wkuqO)

149 It's over.
Admitting to lying to impose you agenda and getting away with it.
A little more of this then dictatorship.
Complain and you go to the place where you don't come back from. They keep changing the name through time so it has a new one we aren't acquainted with yet.

Posted by: OTB at April 10, 2015 01:03 PM (ShdUd)

150 147
Huma already ate her...

Posted by: Mr Wizard at April 10, 2015 01:03 PM (eOpVe)

151 The big mistake the Clintons made when they pushed for Hillarycare is that they treated the medical insurance companies as the enemy. When it came time for Obamcare, they pulled the companies into the fold with full on cronyism to write the bill.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 10, 2015 01:03 PM (39g3+)

152 It's like a lazy joke: just because two comedians tell the same awful white people dance like this joke doesn't mean one stole from the other.

Same here, President Boyfriend wouldn't never deign to talk to Hillary or Bill about healthcare, so it's just the same old politician ejecta.

-
It's a variation on the old "free lunch" scam.

Posted by: The Great White Snark at April 10, 2015 01:03 PM (XUKZU)

153 If you examine the kerning on the several letters in the document you can easily tell this was produced in Word 3.0

Posted by: Bigby's Cellphone Finger at April 10, 2015 01:04 PM (eaOXx)

154 Forward ,Comrade MuMu!

Posted by: The Long March at April 10, 2015 01:04 PM (S8aM1)

155 They lie.

It's in their nature.

They can do nothing but.

Posted by: If you like your Hat... at April 10, 2015 01:05 PM (0Ew3K)

156 OT, re: ace's sidebar cheesecake pic:

That "oversize" model's pudenda needs it's own zip code, IMHO.

Talk about velvet beef drapes!

Posted by: Sharkman at April 10, 2015 01:05 PM (rXB/r)

157 Posted by: Mr Wizard at April 10, 2015 01:03 PM (eOpVe)

Phrasing! Unless we're not doing that anymore, c'mon people tell me these things!

Posted by: Archer at April 10, 2015 01:05 PM (yRwC8)

158 The Left never changes -- sweet lies and perfume promises and the jackboot behind it all. Always.

Posted by: rrpjr at April 10, 2015 01:05 PM (s/yC1)

159 Just listened to the podcast with Larry - very good. Ace is on a roll.

Now, if you can do a video-cast with Kate Upton.... yowzers!!

Posted by: Ibin Pharteen at April 10, 2015 01:06 PM (zL/eJ)

160 O/T-

Two-star Air Force General got fired for warning Airmen that "opposing the phase-out of the A-10 warthog was tantamount to treason".

http://www.airforcetimes.com/

Posted by: Tex Lovera at April 10, 2015 01:06 PM (wtvvX)

161 LOL, MooMoo is back.

Posted by: Draki at April 10, 2015 01:06 PM (pmv/9)

162 140. Before he turned Obama squish, Christopher Buckley used that premise to good comic effect in his novel, No Way to Treat a First Lady.

The Hillary character goes on trial for murdering the Bill character for schtupping the Streisand character in the Lincoln Bedroom.

A character muses over the Secret Service's quandary about how to handle the lethal injection of the former First Lady, should it come to that.

Posted by: Billa at April 10, 2015 01:07 PM (bb5We)

163 "Yeah, but I'm gonna cook dinner anyway."

Heh.

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at April 10, 2015 01:07 PM (LA7Cm)

164

Only with Webb Hubbell's dick

Posted by: Bill from Chappaqua at April 10, 2015 01:07 PM (kFxpe)

165 Hey MooMoo, obamacare is cheap for poor people because taxes make it cheap for them. Not because the premiums are cheap.

Posted by: Draki at April 10, 2015 01:08 PM (pmv/9)

166 It's over. Admitting to lying to impose you agenda and getting away with it. A little more of this then dictatorship. Complain and you go to the place where you don't come back from. They keep changing the name through time so it has a new one we aren't acquainted with yet.

Posted by: OTB at April 10, 2015 01:03 PM (ShdUd)

A reporter once asked Huey Long if there would ever be fascism in the United States. "Sure!" the Kingfish replied. "Only, we'll call it anti- fascism!"

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at April 10, 2015 01:08 PM (zF6Iw)

167
Obamacare is awesome for the poor and even a good chunk of the middle class. You get virtually free health insurance with very low deductibles. What's not to like?

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo

Not being able to find a physician who will take ACA for one.

ACA subscribers are just going back to emergency care - you know, the phenomena ACA was supposed to solve. And that increases costs for hospitals which then engenders further cost pressure on private ins., and will eventually lead to pronounced rationing of care, Rx, and extraordinary measures.

It's a bad deal for everyone.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at April 10, 2015 01:08 PM (Yp6Vn)

168 How about a Fresca?

Posted by: 3 Monkey Republicans at April 10, 2015 01:09 PM (1vYi0)

169 She was ahead of her time!

Posted by: Baldy at April 10, 2015 01:09 PM (sEXjW)

170 Blatantly lying never goes out of fashion, huh?

Posted by: Lizzy at April 10, 2015 01:10 PM (2TN4k)

171 It's a bad deal for everyone.

Posted by: weft cut-loop

----

So's herpes, but I don't see people badmouthing that here.

Posted by: Why does it have to be herpes? at April 10, 2015 01:10 PM (VAsIq)

172 138
Clinton would not have won if Ross Perot hadn't been brought in as a stalking horse.

Is that actually true or is it just something everyone says?

Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at April 10, 2015 12:51 PM (W5DcG)
___________________________

I 100% believe Ross Perot is why Clinton became President, I don't think it had anything to do with some sort of grand conspiracy or quid pro quo.

I don't know how you bribe a billionaire and make him spend hundreds of millions of his own money all to cut a deal with an Arkansas Governor. Sounds crazy to me.

I think Perot actually thought he had a shot and he could buy the election.

Perot ran as a sort of center-right populist and took around 20% of the vote. I don't know how any Republican could have beaten that, especially since Democrats tend to be loyal because it's a machine that doles out the money.

Posted by: McAdams at April 10, 2015 01:10 PM (Knl+7)

173 MooMoo, reminds me, I saw a rant from one of my liberal doctor friends complaining about how people aren't paying their bills and he might have to close if it continues.

Posted by: Draki at April 10, 2015 01:10 PM (pmv/9)

174 Obamacare is awesome for the poor and even a good chunk of the middle class. You get virtually free health insurance with very low deductibles. What's not to like?

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo

Damn dude.

Posted by: dogfish at April 10, 2015 01:10 PM (1vYi0)

175 Meet the new boss...

Posted by: The Who at April 10, 2015 01:11 PM (kFxpe)

176 so, the 1992 slogan was "the most ethical administration in history"

and from slate dot com Nov 12 2008 "During a presidential campaign, there's no such thing as over-sharing. Barack Obama promised to run the most transparent White House in history - disclosing donations, shunning lobbyists, and broadcasting important meetings on C-SPAN. Transition captain John Podesta reiterated the point Tuesday when he said Obama's would be "the most open and transparent transition in history." "

so what will Hillary! say? How about "the most unbribed administration in history"?

Posted by: Mallfly at April 10, 2015 01:11 PM (qSIlh)

177 @144 Anyway, it's been enlightening. Not a single person I know, apart from a tiny handful of aware and sophisticated ones who are always in a separate category, has any idea what's happening, since it isn't happening to them. They are shocked when I tell them the situation. This includes many as "right wing" as anybody here.

Posted by: rhomboid at April 10, 2015 01:01 PM (afQnV)

*********

Well of course they're unaware. They expect politicians to behave like their refrigerators, puttering along silently in the background doing the best job they can, when in reality they hired jackals to guard the henhouse.
Maybe a representative republic is unworkable, since we need someone to watch the watchers.

Posted by: Bruce Jenner at April 10, 2015 01:11 PM (XrHO0)

178 #171 We're into seafood at the moment. Submariners don't want to talk about herpes.

Posted by: Draki at April 10, 2015 01:11 PM (pmv/9)

179 Her biggest accomplishment as First Lady may very well have been avoiding becoming First Widow.

Posted by: Muldoon, a solid man at April 10, 2015 01:11 PM (NeFrd)

180 I think Perot actually thought he had a shot and he could buy the election.

Perot ran as a sort of center-right populist and took around 20% of the vote. I don't know how any Republican could have beaten that, especially since Democrats tend to be loyal because it's a machine that doles out the money.

Posted by: McAdams at April 10, 2015 01:10 PM (Knl+7)

READ MY LIPS NO NEW TAXES

Posted by: the skydiving bush at April 10, 2015 01:12 PM (wkuqO)

181 If you look at my chart here you'll see a lot of squiggles and lines and even a pie chart or two.

Posted by: Ross Perot's ears at April 10, 2015 01:13 PM (VAsIq)

182
Two-star Air Force General got fired for warning
Airmen that "opposing the phase-out of the A-10 warthog was tantamount
to treason".

http://www.airforcetimes.com/

Posted by: Tex Lovera at April 10, 2015 01:06 PM (wtvvX)

Wasn't that a few months ago?

i can't keep up with the stupid anymore.

A bit back an army 1sgt was surfing her Fb and found a video uploaded by some grunts (not hers) that involved boobs and well. what grunts do.

She elevated it immediately to her "Sensitivity" friend in the Pentagon, ruined about 8 careers and got a fucking medal for it... I shit you not.

Posted by: TangoNine at April 10, 2015 01:13 PM (x3YFz)

183 New thread if you didn't get the memo

Posted by: Draki at April 10, 2015 01:13 PM (pmv/9)

184 Obamacare is awesome for the poor and even a good chunk of the middle class. You get virtually free health insurance with very low deductibles. What's not to like?
Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo

Nothing in this world is "free." Why this basic fact continues to elude that razor-sharp mind of yours, I cannot fathom.

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at April 10, 2015 01:14 PM (zF6Iw)

185 so what will Hillary! say? How about "the most unbribed administration in history"?

----

John Kerry's would have been "the most unbridled administration"

Posted by: Turd Ferguson, ragging on Kerry's horse face today because SPITE at April 10, 2015 01:15 PM (VAsIq)

186 That's not cheesecake. That's poundcake.

Posted by: Fritz at April 10, 2015 01:15 PM (UzPAd)

187 174 go to your local mental health center and request a 3 day evaluation. In my state you could check yourself out if you had a change of mind. Call it a 3 hots and a cot stay. You however might like to pack for a long stay.

Posted by: OTB at April 10, 2015 01:15 PM (ShdUd)

188 Comrade MuMu is correct.

We must eliminate the unfit and the impure.

Our new 5 year plan provides glowing health...to those who deserve it.

Posted by: The Long March at April 10, 2015 01:15 PM (S8aM1)

189 Obamacare is awesome for the poor and even a good
chunk of the middle class. You get virtually free health insurance with
very low deductibles. What's not to like?

And before someone chimes in with "but deductibles are $10,000, how
can you say that's a good deal"....they're not $10,000 for everyone.
They're $10,000 for evil rich (usually white) people. For someone making
$20K a year, the premium AND deductible as subsidized by the govt.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo
______________

The thing is, everyone who made "$20k a year" was already getting free medical care. It's called MediCaid.

What ObamaCare did was start gouging the overwhelming majority of those that do pay for their health insurance or through their employer. Most people get their healthcare through their employer and see the skyrocketing rates.

The Democrats already had the $20k a year voter in the bag.

Had Obama and Democrats been diabolical, they just would have increased MediCaid to include the entire middle class. Would have been almost impossible to have killed.

ObamaCare will implode regardless and poll after poll show its unpopular even before the real nasty parts start to be enforced

Posted by: McAdams at April 10, 2015 01:16 PM (Knl+7)

190 Interesting WSJ op-ed, "The Alinsky Way of Governing". Subscription only, unfortunately. I saw it in the dead tree edition.

The author points out that Alinsky's tactics were designed to be used by the weak against the powerful. Alinsky himself compared "Rules for Radicals" to Machiavelli's "The Prince", saying that the latter was to teach the haves how to hold power, while his book was written for the have-nots on how to take it away.

But what happens when a whole generation raised on those tactics become powerful themselves?

Pretty much what we're seeing now. They start using Alinsky's tactics against anyone who opposes them.

Posted by: rickl at April 10, 2015 01:16 PM (zoehZ)

191 Obamacare is awesome for the poor and even a good chunk of the middle class. You get virtually free health insurance with very low deductibles. What's not to like?

It drives up the deficit.

It drives up premiums.

It makes your access to your doctor and your hospital uncertain.

It places control over 1/7 of the economy in the hands of HHS and Big Pharma.

It's enforced by the IRS.

It was zero percent bipartisan and did not reflect the will of the country.

It doesn't do what it said it would--lower the number of uninsured dramatically.

It places a Trojan horse of future Medicaid costs on the backs of the states.

It is demographically unsustainable.

Shall I go on? Imbecile.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at April 10, 2015 01:16 PM (659DL)

192 Obamacare is awesome for the poor and even a good chunk of the middle class. You get virtually free health insurance with very low deductibles. What's not to like?

It drives up the deficit.

It drives up premiums.

It makes your access to your doctor and your hospital uncertain.

It places control over 1/7 of the economy in the hands of HHS and Big Pharma.

It's enforced by the IRS.

It was zero percent bipartisan and did not reflect the will of the country.

It doesn't do what it said it would--lower the number of uninsured dramatically.

It places a Trojan horse of future Medicaid costs on the backs of the states.

It is demographically unsustainable.

Shall I go on? Imbecile.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at April 10, 2015 01:16 PM (659DL)

193 Maybe a representative republic is unworkable, since we need someone to watch the watchers.

An honest press would go a long way towards curing what ails us politically.

Also, so would deporting people like the anti-Christ George Soros and Tom Steyer and freezing their assets and every one of their operations here.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this sh1t at April 10, 2015 01:16 PM (0HooB)

194 "84 If the insurance companies had worked together to defeat ObamaNoCare, like they did in 1994, it would have been DOA in the US Senate.

The US Senate passed it because they knew the insurance companies had been cut in on the scam, and that those "risk corridors" would pay the insurance companies billions of taxpayer dollars to go along.

When corporate rent-seeking big business unites with the government against the people, that's when the people get screwed. "

We're just kicking the can down the road, hoping it'll all hold together until we are safely retired with huge bank accounts in the Caymans.

Posted by: Insurance company execs at April 10, 2015 01:17 PM (1Rgee)

195 The suspected mastermind of the 2008 Mumbai terror attacks, Zakiur Rehman Lakhvi, has been released on bail from a Pakistani jail, officials say.

Jail officials in Rawalpindi said Mr Lakhvi was released on Friday morning.

India's Home Minister Rajnath Singh has called the release 'unfortunate and disappointing' Indian media reports say.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-32250763

Posted by: Bruce J. at April 10, 2015 01:17 PM (iQIUe)

196 Comrade MuMu is correct.

We must eliminate the unfit and the impure.

---------------------------------------------------

Finally we get rid of IslamaObama and Moooch.

Posted by: OTB at April 10, 2015 01:17 PM (ShdUd)

197 READ MY LIPS NO NEW TAXES

Posted by: the skydiving bush

And so they backed Perot that was promising all sorts of new taxes in order to combat the deficit.

He was proposing something like a 50% national sales tax on gasoline.

Posted by: McAdams at April 10, 2015 01:18 PM (Knl+7)

198 The suspected mastermind of the 2008 Mumbai terror attacks, Zakiur Rehman Lakhvi, has been released on bail from a Pakistani jail, officials say.

And is now living a mile from the Pakistani military academy....

What in the immortal hell?

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at April 10, 2015 01:19 PM (659DL)

199 Actually that wasn't Perot that was as best as memory allows Anderson.

Posted by: OTB at April 10, 2015 01:19 PM (ShdUd)

200 Comment section's no place to argue fully and in detail, Moo Moo, but you're off on the ACA situation. In CA (dunno about anywhere else), the last time anyone dared talk about it, state medical assoc. survey indicated 10 percent (that's TEN) of physicians were planning to accept ACA plans. Ten percent. Of course as there's no press, I have not seen any updates now that the disaster is proceeding. And you won't see the real, representative, true stories of disaster in the "press", as you will the mostly misleading tales of woe of the "uninsured" etc.

And Chi-Town, apologies if I'm off here, but you sure sound like you've internalized the utter nonsense of most NPR-level Obama idiots. Specifically the "shitty plans" and "uninsurable" stuff. None of that was systematically true or addressable by anything like the ACA, even if it was true. Recall the experiments with high-risk pools, etc. The involuntarily financially uninsured (the only relevant category - which the broad masses of the idiotic US populace, incl. many self-ID'd "conservatives", confuse and conflate with zillions of other categories) prior to ACA were a "tiny" group.

You may recall - one of the more jaw-dropping and degrading spectacles of the last six years of such spectacles - the president of the US changing his numbers repeatedly, downward, as his absurdly high, untrue numbers were challenged, during his pathetic barnstorming tour to build support for ACA (which failed). This atrocity was overlooked perhaps due to fascination with the unbelievable, delusional slander about surgeons doing unneeded amputations for the $$$. Same speeches.

Back of the envelope, the involuntarily uninsured (only legitimate theoretical "beneficiaries" of ACA) are probably outnumbered 10-to-1 by victims of ACA.

Posted by: rhomboid at April 10, 2015 01:20 PM (afQnV)

201 They just needed a lefty corrupt enough not to even bother feigning fealty to the truth. Actually, that's not it. It's the corruption of the media. As favorable as the media was to Clinton, I don't think they would have lied for him. Now? How high do you want me to jump, boss?

Posted by: East Bay Jay at April 10, 2015 01:22 PM (7v8o1)

202 I think large civilizations may be unsustainable. Too bad small ones aren't either.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at April 10, 2015 01:23 PM (bLnSU)

203 200

^^^

Posted by: just bob at April 10, 2015 01:24 PM (wkuqO)

204 I think large civilizations may be unsustainable.

I think we're going to have a hell of a time figuring out what to do with 7 billion people in a robotic world.

The robots may not have so hard of a time...

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at April 10, 2015 01:24 PM (659DL)

205 201 It is just corruption. Rotten to the core.

Posted by: OTB at April 10, 2015 01:25 PM (ShdUd)

206 Is that actually true or is it just something everyone says?
Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at April 10, 2015 12:51 PM (W5DcG)

It is true. Ross Perot message was not one that Democrat voters wanted to hear, he was the first "Tea Party" candidate. He wasn't running from the center, he was running to the right of Bush and Dole.

If you look at AZ, FL, KY, MO, NV, OH, and TN, states Dole would have easily won if Perot wasn't on the ballot, then Billy Jeff is at 291 electoral votes, and the battleground states would have changed from those to ones that Clinton won by a little more like PA, MI, WI, and NM. If that had happened, hello President Dole.

Posted by: Ashley Judd's Puffy Scamper, formerly MrCaniac at April 10, 2015 01:29 PM (+Fae7)

207 The robots will do their best. Imperfectly. No one's perfect.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at April 10, 2015 01:30 PM (bLnSU)

208 Jonah Goldberg's newsletter today links to the "13 most disturbing vintage ads" and that title isn't underselling at all.

Posted by: MTF at April 10, 2015 01:31 PM (FCsIb)

209 Wow, prez choomster is so lame he can't even make up his own BS.

Posted by: Bill at April 10, 2015 01:32 PM (JMNQR)

210 208. I guess a more polite poster would have included the link. Pretty unbelievable ads.

http://bit.ly/1aRizR2

Posted by: MTF at April 10, 2015 01:34 PM (FCsIb)

211 LOL, you Capitalist dogs! I used this same shit to sell socialism to leftist twits back in 1848!! We had #OccupyParis and other such anti-bourgeoisie get-togethers, thoough we couldn't find a cop-car to poop on..........

Posted by: Karl Marx at April 10, 2015 01:46 PM (2mJMN)

212 Isn't that BJ, not BC?

Posted by: Xavier at April 10, 2015 02:21 PM (MB7G/)

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