Anti-SJW SF Fans Rig Hugo Awards to Fill Nominations With Their Own Picks

The word "rig" was picked for its brevity and juiciness. What they actually did was to publicize a "slate" of nominees, and suggest people vote for that slate as a bloc, in order to fill the lists of nominees with their preferences.

What's been going on in SF, with these various award situations, is that the Social Justice Warrior crowd and other leftists have been pushing their own favorites for reasons not having to strictly to do with quality -- there has been an overt push to award certain writers for simply being of the right sex/orientation/race and, of course, political outlook.

The Anti-SJW contingent has struck back, figuring they should stack the nominations with writers more congruent with their own political outlook.

There's a lot of shouting about this.

In February, we reported on the "Sad Puppies" campaign, a tongue-in-cheek bid by science fiction & fantasy (SF&F) authors to draw attention to an atmosphere of political intolerance, driven by so-called "social justice warriors," that is holding the medium back. Spearheaded by authors Larry Correia and Brad R. Torgersen, the campaign sought to break the stranglehold of old cliques by encouraging a more politically diverse group of fans to take part in the annual Hugo Awards.
A week of rumours about the campaign’s success were confirmed this Saturday with the announcement of the final Hugo Awards ballot. Authors and works endorsed by the Sad Puppies nominations slate swept the field, a reflection of just how many new fans the rebel authors have brought into the Hugo process.
Recommendations from Vox Day’s allied Rabid Puppies slate also dominated. Indeed, in the categories of Best Novella, Best Short Story, and Best Novelette, the two slates swept the entire field, an astonishing achievement for a genre some considered to be wholly owned by the social justice tendency just a few short years ago.
It's worth noting that the Sad Puppies were not the first group to propose a slate of suggested nominations. The trend was started by former president of the Science Fiction Writers Guild of America, John Scalzi, who hosted an annual "award pimpage" post on his blog. British writer Charles Stross followed his example. But there was little semblance of a backlash to either Stross or Scalzi, who were both deeply embedded in the existing clique.

Scalzi, who's very butthurt today, says that what he did is nothing at all like what the Sad Puppies did. He claims all he did was tell people that here are some under-appreciated works they might want to vote for.

That sounds like what Sad Puppies did, though.

Scalzi is, for some reason, a major leader in science-fiction, and was able to (somehow) get his novel Redshirts a Hugo award for Best Novel a couple of years ago -- despite the fact that this book is, as Sarah Hoyt put it, "fan fiction about a thirty year old cancelled TV show." (That is, Scalzi's book is in fact fan fiction about the old Star Trek show.)

This sort of heavily derivative, borderline amateur work is just not the sort of book to win Best Novel in any awards show, and yet Scalzi's pull is such that it won anyway.

Incidentally, I'm told the book is either "not bad" or actually kind of fun, being, as it is, a light Star Trek homage and spoof. That may be true, but National Lampoon's Tolkein parody "Bored of the Rings" was pretty awesome too, yet I wouldn't figure it for a Hugo award winner, nor would I expect the Austin Powers films to take home any Oscars.

All of which makes Scalzi's campaign to vote for NO AWARD rather than a nominee which lacks his exacting standards of literary merit somewhat ironic.

...
The chief complaint from the Sad Puppies campaigners is the atmosphere of political intolerance and cliquishness that prevails in the sci-fi community. According to the libertarian sci-fi author Sarah A. Hoyt, whispering campaigns by insiders have been responsible for the de facto blacklisting of politically nonconformist writers across the sci-fi community. Authors who earn the ire of the dominant clique can expect to have a harder time getting published and be quietly passed over at award ceremonies.
As with GamerGate, the political biases of a small elite has led to the exclusion of those who think differently -- even if they're in the majority.

...
Torgersen and Correia have a name for that inner circle [of cliquish, leftist fanbois]. They call them the CHORFs -- Cliquish, Holier-than-thou, Obnoxious, Reactionary, Fanatics. It’s roughly equivalent to social justice warrior, the internet pejorative used to describe politically intolerant activists who use social shaming and abuse to dominate communities (while enthusiastically painting themselves as the victims of both).

One article I'd like to see written is a more rigorous recapitulation of the "CHORFs" abuse over the years, particularly with respect to passing out awards to people based on identity politics. Some on the left claim that the Anti-SJW people are basically making the SJW bias in these organizations up, and so this nominee-gaming is completely terrible and unjustified.

I'm inclined to think the people saying that are liars, but I'd like to see an article making the case.

Argument/Counter-Argument: Larry Correia responds to a butthurt ~~owner~~ former editor of Tor publishing (one of the alleged leaders of the SJW clique), here.

The bit about how pristinely free of politics these awards have been until the Sad Puppies is brief and worth a read -- key down to Mad Mike Williamson discussion, just a little bit down the page.

Posted by: Ace at 01:22 PM

Comments

(Jump to bottom of comments)

1 Frist??

Posted by: fly gal at April 06, 2015 01:23 PM (8TdcF)

2 Now to read the post, apres moar coffee...

Posted by: fly gal at April 06, 2015 01:23 PM (8TdcF)

3 The SJW brayings that *this is OUR award* are pretty funny....

fact is we need MORE of these insurgencies not less.

Posted by: Sven S Blade a.k.a. El Assassin@sven10077 at April 06, 2015 01:25 PM (/4AZU)

4 Pizza money bomb, the Hugos, GamerGate, and Phi Kappa suing Rolling Stone....

Things are not going well for the SJWs. Let's hope it continues.

Posted by: Zap Rowsdower at April 06, 2015 01:26 PM (oVJmc)

5 Revenge of the nerds.

But sorry guys, as you'll soon learn -- the left never quits. This will just embolden the SJW's.

Posted by: mynewhandle at April 06, 2015 01:26 PM (AkOaV)

6 It's too bad H Beam Piper offed himself. He could have ripped the sjws' to shreads.

Posted by: Luap Nor's last brain cell at April 06, 2015 01:27 PM (6yehy)

7 Posted by: Zap Rowsdower at April 06, 2015 01:26 PM (oVJmc)

I'm not too optimistic of that. We're seeing people get seriously fed up with the SJW's and the left, but they still have all/most of the power. Namely, they control the narrative setters -- er, the media.

Posted by: mynewhandle at April 06, 2015 01:27 PM (AkOaV)

8 5 Posted by: mynewhandle at April 06, 2015 01:26 PM (AkOaV)

The more shrill they are when people are watching closely the more fun it gets beating them....

the awards are step one.

Posted by: Sven S Blade a.k.a. El Assassin@sven10077 at April 06, 2015 01:27 PM (/4AZU)

9
One article I'd like to see written is a more rigorous recapitulation of the "CHORFs" abuse over the years, particularly with respect to passing out awards to people based on identity politics. Some on the left claim that the Anti-SJW people are basically making the SJW bias in these organizations up, and so this nominee-gaming is completely terrible and unjustified.
I'm inclined to think the people saying that are liars, but I'd like to see an article making the case.

I would say their freak out over the Sad Puppies picks getting the nominations and not the "correct" authors that the SJWs would prefer is pretty good evidence.

Posted by: buzzion at April 06, 2015 01:28 PM (zt+N6)

10 First the gamers, now in Sci-fi fiction.
LOVE the push back!!!

Posted by: Lizzy at April 06, 2015 01:28 PM (cXQJ2)

11 Yay Team!

I guess. I don't know any of the parties involved.

*clips corner of Nerd Card*

Posted by: Bandersnatch at April 06, 2015 01:28 PM (JtwS4)

12 Several folks have been screaming about GamerGate stuffing the ballot boxes on this, which is hilarious as Sad Puppies and GG really only started interacting previously. Ironically, Sad Puppies is OLDER than GG -- I think this was its third year.

No, it's not a good day to be a socjus fanatic.

Posted by: Toastrider at April 06, 2015 01:28 PM (w0vrv)

13 Red Shirts is not Scalzi's only derivative work. What he did to H. Beam Piper's Little Fuzzy was a complete rewrite and recast.

Protagonist Jack Holloway went from being a guy who got sick of the cubicle farms of Earth to become a prospector to in the Scalzi version a shady disbarred lawyer who became a prospector to survive.

Scalzi also doubled the page count while cutting out half the characters from the original.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at April 06, 2015 01:28 PM (KB1Tk)

14
I tired to read Old Man's War. (Scalzi)

I quit after 3 pages. The deal breaker was a full page description of and old man filling out a form.

Buh ba.....

Posted by: eleven at April 06, 2015 01:29 PM (63IvN)

15 If it pisses of the SJWs, then I'm all for it.

Posted by: Drill_Thrawl at April 06, 2015 01:29 PM (JOG+K)

16 I think Larry Correia (or however its spelled) has written quite a number of posts about the way Hugos were picked over the last couple years. that might be a place to start.

Posted by: Grey Fox at April 06, 2015 01:29 PM (a42f0)

17 Vox Day has written on his blog about the way in which conservative SciFi writers have been demonized over the years.

Posted by: Lizzy at April 06, 2015 01:30 PM (cXQJ2)

18
Just think if someone were to use these tactics on the Nobel committe. Somebody who actually deserved one would get one for the first time in twenty years or so.

Posted by: Vashta Nerada at April 06, 2015 01:31 PM (dquK7)

19 I've enjoyed several of Scalzi's books. Of course it helped that I didn't know he was such a dick IRL.

Posted by: Lizzy at April 06, 2015 01:31 PM (cXQJ2)

20
5 Revenge of the nerds. But sorry guys, as you'll soon learn -- the left never quits. This will just embolden the SJW's.
Posted by: mynewhandle at April 06, 2015 01:26 PM (AkOaV)

Like with Gamergate, where they chose to fight with people who are obsessed with winning, using every trick and exploit in a game to do something the creators never thought of, you are dealing with sci-fi nerds, people who regularly will connect with a small group of freedom fighters attempting to topple an oppressive organization.

Posted by: buzzion at April 06, 2015 01:31 PM (zt+N6)

21 Correia's recurring theme is that the SJW editors are just bad at their jobs - which is to find publishable work to make money for the publishers.

Which I find amusing.

Posted by: BumperStickerist at April 06, 2015 01:31 PM (0MJOU)

22 He turned Holloway into Hugo Ingerman? Can I laugh at that?

Posted by: Luap Nor's last brain cell at April 06, 2015 01:31 PM (6yehy)

23 Did anyone read the "If you were a dinosaur my love?" short story that won a Hugo? It is terrible. It is drivel. And most offensive of all, it has NOTHING to do with scifi or fantasy! Unless thinking of your loved one as a dinosaur is considered fantasy lit.

Sad Puppies are just doing what needed to be done. Kudos to them.

Posted by: LizLem at April 06, 2015 01:31 PM (yRwC8)

24
Libraries don't even stock Harry Harrison.

Zip zilch nada....from one of the most prolific and talented Sci-Fi writers ever.

Posted by: eleven at April 06, 2015 01:32 PM (63IvN)

25 >>Just think if someone were to use these tactics on the Nobel committe. Somebody who actually deserved one would get one for the first time in twenty years or so.

Ditto for the Oscars.

Posted by: Lizzy at April 06, 2015 01:32 PM (cXQJ2)

26 The "silent majority" is slowly, person by person, beginning to understand that silence is costing them (us) dearly.

Bit by bit, nail by nail, inch by inch. That is how you "take the culture back." Not by grand gestures and white knights riding in to save us all from ourselves.

It's going to require people, just folks, finally having it up to here with the nonsense, and saying "OK, I have had enough of the nonsense."

The more the SJW's try to control everything, the more people will reach the point where they've had enough, and the pendulum will begin swinging back.

The only question is how stupid the SJW's are, and how much damage they are willing to do to humanity before the pendulum swings back and marginalizes them for a generation or two.

But they'll be back. They always come back.

Posted by: filbert at April 06, 2015 01:32 PM (7uT3E)

27 This is how you gight the SJW Crowd.

Do not let them drive you out. Pick your ground and stay to fight. They will lose, because they are a tiny minority and not mainstream.

Posted by: rd at April 06, 2015 01:32 PM (/u1nf)

28 I'm inclined to think the people saying that are liars, but I'd like to see an article making the case.

Meh. Take scalps where you can get them.

Posted by: Methos at April 06, 2015 01:32 PM (ZbV+0)

29 I have no idea what any of this is about, but if SJW got fucked, kudos to whomever did the fucking.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at April 06, 2015 01:33 PM (0LHZx)

30 in the Scalzi version a shady disbarred lawyer who became a prospector to survive.

If only real life mimicked sci-fi.

Posted by: rickb223 at April 06, 2015 01:33 PM (xETma)

31 All I want to know is if the books are any good.

That's it.

That's all I care. I don't give a crap about the politics in the book or the politics of the author. Is the work good in and of itself. That's it.

Apparently, this makes me some kind of wild eyed rebel.

Go. Team. Me.

Some on the left claim that the Anti-SJW people are basically making the SJW bias in these organizations up, and so this nominee-gaming is completely terrible and unjustified.

I'm inclined to think the people saying that are liars, but I'd like to see an article making the case.

This is all 20+ years in the making and, as nearly anything, it's about money. This is about Tor and the people who run Tor believing that they get to have the final say and that they should be making the money.

There's also a lot, I mean a whole really lot, of personal grudges and vendettas behind much of this. This is about who is really a fan and who isn't and how dare those people come over here and, again, it's about who runs Worldcon and who gets that money.

Did I mention this is about money? And personal vendettas? Because it is. Any social justice that is done is done by accident.

Again, all I care about is if the books are good. Frankly, I am just as pissed off when an author shoves libertarian/conservative/right wing politics down my throat in a story as I am if it's left wing. If it works with the characters and the story, fine, but don't shoe horn it in there.

Posted by: alexthechick - Hi again everybody! at April 06, 2015 01:33 PM (mf5HN)

32 Fuck it - I'm going to listen to Lord Foul's Bane discussed by two nearly nekkid wimmens.

http://www.fantasybedtimehour.com/

The way God and Stephen Donaldson intended the story of a leperous rapist fantasy novel to be read.

Posted by: BumperStickerist at April 06, 2015 01:34 PM (0MJOU)

33 Does this mean I didn't get nominated this year?

Posted by: Sabrina Rubin Erdley at April 06, 2015 01:34 PM (CMbMd)

34 Ha, I was 2 minutes off in my prediction of Ace's 1st post of the day. Can I have an award please?

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at April 06, 2015 01:34 PM (F2IAQ)

35 "Some on the left claim that the Anti-SJW people are basically making the SJW bias in these organizations up"

Yes, the same politically-correct adherents that claim there's no such thing as political correctness.

I was told by a CHORF supporter, in no uncertain terms, that wanting to judge submissions by the writing and story quality, ie, merit, was just my privilege talking and that any attempt to judge based on merit was just another facet of the patriarchy. There was zero irony in that person's comment.

Posted by: Scott M at April 06, 2015 01:34 PM (AdBfq)

36 Small set-back for the SJW's. Next time they'll have their lawyers in place, their screamers on the internet, and a few judges in their pockets.

Leftists don't give up.

Posted by: Soona at April 06, 2015 01:34 PM (/HX7u)

37 Do not let them drive you out. Pick your ground and stay to fight. They will lose, because they are a tiny minority and not mainstream.

Posted by: rd at April 06, 2015 01:32 PM (/u1nf)

Whatever.

This is not the hill to die on.

/Every Republican ever

Posted by: Washington Nearsider, Keeper of the Guards at April 06, 2015 01:34 PM (fwARV)

38 First they came for the science fiction authors, and I said nothing because I didn't know how to read.

Posted by: Joe Biden at April 06, 2015 01:34 PM (8ZskC)

39 Barack Obama is a SCOAMT.

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - TrueCon at April 06, 2015 01:35 PM (kff5f)

40 ha?

Posted by: Nevergiveup at April 06, 2015 01:35 PM (rDqRv)

41 Just a note:

Xanth is a metaphor for Penis.

Posted by: Piers Anthony's Book Publisher at April 06, 2015 01:35 PM (0MJOU)

42 Larry Correia has a pretty good run down of the faux outrage over the Best Related Work category.

Previous winners have been. Get ready for it. Hold on to your bloomers gals.

Chicks Dig Time Lords, Chicks Dig Comics, and Queers Dig Time Lords.

But Mike Williamson will ruin the dignity...

Link to Larry's - http://tinyurl.com/nk6jvfs

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at April 06, 2015 01:35 PM (KB1Tk)

43 38 Posted by: Joe Biden at April 06, 2015 01:34 PM (8ZskC)

Cursive...fucks you every time Joey...

//Dede Genital

Posted by: Sven S Blade a.k.a. El Assassin@sven10077 at April 06, 2015 01:36 PM (/4AZU)

44 All of which makes Scalzi's campaign to vote for NO AWARD rather than a nominee which lacks his exacting standards of literary merit somewhat ironic.

Brewster's Millions "None of the Above" campaign. If the SJWs flood the nominees with leftist drivel, flood the award votes with "Nope, not voting for this crap".

Posted by: bonhomme at April 06, 2015 01:36 PM (jhqr1)

45 I love this. LOVE it.

I'm very into SF/F reading (although I lean more heavily towards the fantasy side) and the crap that's been going on in the gaming industry has also been happening in SF/F literature and publishing. It is so fricking infuriating that I haven't been able to pick up a Hugo winning novel in years that's been even remotely readable. The whole industry has been inundated with PC agenda pushing bullcrap.

I greatly appreciate the Sad Puppies campaigns for the past few years because I've managed to find a lot of really great reading material by looking at their slate of suggestions for the Hugos.

I'm also really excited the John C. Wright's short story The Plural of Helen of Troy is nominated this year (mainly via Sad Puppies efforts). It was a great story and Wright's writing is just excellent.

Posted by: Mandy P., lurking lurker who lurks at April 06, 2015 01:36 PM (KkVB6)

46 I guess Jack Holloway was to white privileged and patriarchal.

I'd love to see him try to rewrite The Uller Uprising. Znidd Suddabit!

Posted by: rd at April 06, 2015 01:36 PM (/u1nf)

47 41 Just a note:

Xanth is a metaphor for Penis.

Posted by: Piers Anthony's Book Publisher at April 06, 2015 01:35 PM

so is
Dick
Johnson
Wienie
And last but not least Moo

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at April 06, 2015 01:36 PM (F2IAQ)

48 Lord Foul's Bane discussed by two nearly nekkid wimmens.

Wait, wha???

Posted by: filbert at April 06, 2015 01:36 PM (7uT3E)

49 I was gang-raped by space aliens once. It's like part of their culture.

Posted by: Jackie at April 06, 2015 01:37 PM (8ZskC)

50 Burn it down.
Scatter the stones.
Salt the earth where it stood.

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - TrueCon at April 06, 2015 01:37 PM (kff5f)

51
The Oscars are different how?
Every single media award show is different how?

The cockamamie Kennedy Center Honors is different how?

Posted by: Soothsayer, Inc. -- The King Unwilling at April 06, 2015 01:37 PM (UmkRj)

52 Yeah, I read Redshirts. "Kind of fun" sums it up pretty well.

Posted by: Brian at April 06, 2015 01:37 PM (Ft3+l)

53 Saw Brianna Wu on Twitter posting that it's about "ethics in award journalism without a hint of irony."

Posted by: El oh El at April 06, 2015 01:37 PM (XpAxm)

54
Ha, I was 2 minutes off in my prediction of Ace's 1st post of the day. Can I have an award please?

Here's your trophy----------->

Posted by: eleven at April 06, 2015 01:38 PM (63IvN)

55 Did anyone read the "If you were a dinosaur my love?" short story that
won a Hugo? It is terrible. It is drivel. And most offensive of all, it
has NOTHING to do with scifi or fantasy! Unless thinking of your loved
one as a dinosaur is considered fantasy lit.

It's villains were cartoon rednecks. Therefore, au courant.

Posted by: Zap Rowsdower at April 06, 2015 01:38 PM (oVJmc)

56 This brings to mind Kurt Schlicter's article that was mentioned in the dump this morning - essentially, two can play that game. The SJW's have long gotten away with violating the rules of civilized discourse that most people had absorbed without thinking and made the most of it while others looked about, bewildered.

Now the anti-SJW's are doing the same thing - setting up their slate of candidates for these awards, hounding someone through social media, etc. I think it is going to be quite a long while before that prior behavior will be reinstated, and I am certain that in the interim it is going to get very nasty.

Oh well - they asked for it.

Posted by: Mikey NTH - Grievances Are Privileges at the Outrage Outlet! at April 06, 2015 01:38 PM (hLRSq)

57 Luap, not quite as bad as Hugo. But its pretty raw. One of the other main characters got a sex change and became Jack's sometime lover.

And Jack in this version has a dog as a companion. A dog that Jack lets set off cataclysmite charges to find the sunstones.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at April 06, 2015 01:38 PM (KB1Tk)

58 I noticed the Hugo mess back in the early 2000's. Had a job babysitting a mainframe and found a sci-fi site that sold ebooks. They always offered the Hugo winners for cheap each year. Wow, some of those stories were horrible. But they hit all of the right SJW points and you could tell that is why they were picked.

Piper is awesome. His stories are a lot of Earth history retold in space.

Posted by: Not Loved Time to be Feared at April 06, 2015 01:38 PM (nRvEn)

59 All of which makes Scalzi's campaign to vote for NO AWARD rather than
a nominee which lacks his exacting standards of literary merit somewhat
ironic.

I think NO AWARD is at least as big a victory for Sad Puppies-- it says that the awards are meaningless.

Posted by: Zap Rowsdower at April 06, 2015 01:38 PM (oVJmc)

60 LET THE LAWSUITS BEGIN!!

"Virginia Fraternity Says it will Sue Rolling Stone"

http://tinyurl.com/k4bpxb7

Posted by: Washington Nearsider, Keeper of the Guards at April 06, 2015 01:38 PM (fwARV)

61 Is there nothing that the progressives can't screw up?

They literally infect/infest every facet or sphere.

Posted by: Kreplach at April 06, 2015 01:39 PM (LQWLo)

62
Did you know that politicians, media personalities, and celebrities spend half their time at awards ceremonies?

It's one big perpetual circle jerk. They all take turns 'honoring' each other for being leftists.

It's all bullshit.

Posted by: Soothsayer, Inc. -- The King Unwilling at April 06, 2015 01:39 PM (UmkRj)

63 Welcome to The Acies!

This years nominees for Best Supporting Mega Scrunt are Sabrina Erdley, Lena Dunham, "Jackie" and of course, Hillary Rodham Clinton, with her 9th consecutive nomination!

Posted by: Lincolntf at April 06, 2015 01:39 PM (2cS/G)

64 Did I mention this is about money? And personal vendettas? Because it is. Any social justice that is done is done by accident. Again, all I care about is if the books are good. Frankly, I am just as pissed off when an author shoves libertarian/conservative/right wing politics down my throat in a story as I am if it's left wing. If it works with the characters and the story, fine, but don't shoe horn it in there.
Posted by: alexthechick - Hi again everybody! at April 06, 2015 01:33 PM (mf5HN)

Well apparently the Sad Puppies did also have liberal authors on their list as well. So its that they are picking books that are just anti-left. So perhaps they really were based on quality.

Posted by: buzzion at April 06, 2015 01:39 PM (zt+N6)

65 This kind of blatant ignoring of your betters has not gone unnoticed.

Posted by: the AMA, ABA, AARP, Royal Society, GSA at April 06, 2015 01:40 PM (/eXW0)

66 Oh, and Larry Correia frequents the SLC Comicon as a panelist, I've gotten to hear him live. He is good people. According to David Farland, as a budding author he was hustling books out of the trunk of his car! Has come a long way since then.

He is also Hispanic, so when they call him a racist hater it is laughable. Though I guess he is in that mysterious "white hispanic" category so it's all good!

Posted by: LizLem at April 06, 2015 01:40 PM (yRwC8)

67 I have no idea what any of this is about, but if SJW got fucked, kudos to whomever did the fucking.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at April 06, 2015 01:33 PM (0LHZx)

Yeah, that's my take on it too.

Posted by: Berserker-Dragonheads Division at April 06, 2015 01:40 PM (FMbng)

68 "I was told by a CHORF supporter, in no uncertain terms, that wanting to
judge submissions by the writing and story quality, ie, merit, was just
my privilege talking and that any attempt to judge based on merit was
just another facet of the patriarchy. There was zero irony in that
person's comment"

The Notable and Quotable in today's WSJ was hilarious - some Class of '15 undergrad from Brown University named Joseph DiZoglio:

"When I say your argument makes me uncomfortable, it is because I am
greatly concerned that you have not done the requisite thought and
research into generating an inclusive thesis that considers as many
nuances as necessary to deliver a sound debate."

Posted by: El oh El at April 06, 2015 01:40 PM (XpAxm)

69 My first awareness of what was going on inside SF and Fantasy was back in 2011. Back then, author Elizabeth Moon became a target of the barking moonbats that currently infest WisCon, the Wisconsin SF convention. Moon, who is far from being a conservative (she was a fairly shrill critic of W during his entire presidency), had the audacity to criticize militant Islam and the Islamic group that wanted to put up an Islamic center near the 9/11 site, among other things. For that sin, the SJWs at WisCon canceled her invitation to be the guest of honor at the convention.

I've actually read some of Moon's work, and her early stuff is quite good (The Deed of Paksenarrion is probably one of the few depictions of what basic training would look like in a fantasy setting, along with being the best portrayal of a female warrior that I've ever read). However, I couldn't feel too bad for Moon because, well....lie down with leftist dogs, get up with SJW fleas. I don't think the whole episode hurt her career, but I'm sure it was embarrassing to be the subject of an SJW freakout. Hope she learned a lesson from that whole debacle.

Posted by: Pave Low John at April 06, 2015 01:40 PM (b5yHT)

70 I actually liked Old Man's War and Atrocity Archives so seeing the people behind those books sucking off the SJWs is disappointing.

Posted by: Lauren at April 06, 2015 01:41 PM (0xXrg)

71 Semi-off-topic, but among the Science Justice Warriors, "Climate communicator" George Marshall has an article in the Guardian saying that climate change scientists need to explicitly treat climate change as a religion.

The subtitle (which probably can't be blamed on him), says "When preaching to the unconverted, activists need to offer the road to Damascus, not guilt and blame".

But my immediate thought is that the road to Damascus *was* about guilt and blame, and a bit of punishment, too. Saul was struck blind on the road to Damascus, both as punishment and symbolic of his blindness to Christ. And then God specifically laid blame on him for persecuting His followers.

Posted by: Stephen Price Blair at April 06, 2015 01:41 PM (J0IP0)

72
Have you guys tried to get Correia on the AoS Podcast? That would rock.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at April 06, 2015 01:41 PM (SpnVI)

73 Just a note:

Xanth is a metaphor for Penis.

Posted by: Piers Anthony's Book Publisher

Dunno about that, but Anthony has certainly said some "I love the younger wimmins, they're hawt" things. And then wrapped it up in a pseudo-scientific "Darwinian Biology makes me this way".

Posted by: bonhomme at April 06, 2015 01:41 PM (jhqr1)

74 One article I'd like to see written is a more rigorous recapitulation of
the "CHORFs" abuse over the years, particularly with respect to passing
out awards to people based on identity politics.
========
I'd say near 95% of awards are based on this or money donated.

I know for a fact of several people have earned "honors" only because they donated a big chunk of money to the charity/entity giving out the awards.

I mean, it's well known in the non-profit world that you "have to reward your donors." And the cheapest way to do that is to give them some plaque.

Posted by: RoyalOil at April 06, 2015 01:42 PM (ZvKdv)

75 >>What's been going on in SF, with these various award situations, is that the Social Justice Warrior crowd and other leftists have been pushing their own favorites for reasons not having to strictly to do with quality -- there has been an overt push to award certain writers for simply being of the right sex/orientation/race and, of course, political outlook.

In a way, this is exactly what has been going on with the AGW. The only articles that get published, the only ones to get positively peer reviewed, are the ones that push the SJ narrative. And since we now have a bunch of SJW warriors running the government they are the only ones who get funded.

Closed loop feedback system.

Posted by: JackStraw at April 06, 2015 01:42 PM (g1DWB)

76 Posted by: LizLem at April 06, 2015 01:31 PM (yRwC

"Dinosaur" didn't win a Hugo, it was nominated for one however. It DID win the Nebula - prima facie proof that the SJWs have a stranglehold on "official" SF writers and editors, who also hold a strategic position in fandom.

Sarah Hoyt has a few good posts about her experiences with that crowd; he latest discusses the abject career fear she had if she opened her mouth about certain topics.

Posted by: Grabthar's Hammer at April 06, 2015 01:42 PM (Edob3)

77 Ace, see link in sig. Sarah Hoyt has a nice lengthy description of some things she witnessed prior to outing herself a libertarian author.

Posted by: Emile Antoon Khadaji at April 06, 2015 01:42 PM (Nj2wY)

78 Did anyone read the "If you were a dinosaur my love?" short story that won a Hugo? It is terrible. It is drivel. And most offensive of all, it has NOTHING to do with scifi or fantasy! Unless thinking of your loved one as a dinosaur is considered fantasy lit.

------------------------------------------

Is is it like "My Mother the Car"?

Posted by: Soona at April 06, 2015 01:42 PM (/HX7u)

79 Scalzi is, for some reason, a major leader in science-fiction, and was able to (somehow) get his novel Redshirts a Hugo award for Best Novel a couple of years ago

More like "Brownshirts", amirite?

Posted by: AmishDude at April 06, 2015 01:43 PM (b65cm)

80 I actually liked Old Man's War and Atrocity Archives so seeing the people behind those books sucking off the SJWs is disappointing.
Posted by: Lauren at April 06, 2015 01:41 PM (0xXrg)

Stross is ambiguous, but Scalzi is one of the lead attack dogs of the SJW lynch mob.

Posted by: filbert at April 06, 2015 01:43 PM (7uT3E)

81 Larry Correia has one over riding theme to his push.

Professional Authors Get Paid!

How do they get paid? They sell books and stories. To do so, the story must be Entertaining, not SJW talking points.

Posted by: rd at April 06, 2015 01:43 PM (/u1nf)

82 Have you guys tried to get Correia on the AoS Podcast? That would rock.
Posted by: IllTemperedCur at April 06, 2015 01:41 PM (SpnVI)

Oh, yes.

Yes, very much so, please.

Posted by: filbert at April 06, 2015 01:44 PM (7uT3E)

83
Here's your trophy----------->

Posted by: eleven at April 06, 2015 01:38 PM (63IvN)

I wish to thank you eleven and the cast of thousands at the AoSHQ.

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at April 06, 2015 01:44 PM (F2IAQ)

84 "I was told by a CHORF supporter, in no uncertain terms, that wanting to judge submissions by the writing and story quality, ie, merit, was just my privilege talking and that any attempt to judge based on merit was just another facet of the patriarchy. There was zero irony in that person's comment."

Ffs. This is literally why we can't have nice things. Just things that encourage some combination of sucking and blowing.

Posted by: Lauren at April 06, 2015 01:44 PM (0xXrg)

85 At least in radio entertainment, they use payola to promote certain artists. This is just partisan politics.

Posted by: Vashta Nerada at April 06, 2015 01:44 PM (dquK7)

86 All I want to know is if the books are any good.

The same is true of the Sad Puppies brigade. If you look at their "slate" (which, yes, others have been doing for quite a while) you'll find plenty of Liberals on it.

Larry C. has specifically said that over and over. And, to prove his point, when he was nominated for a Hugo this year, he declined it- to try to prove the point this isn't about *him*, not about *Conservative* fiction, but about *good* fiction.

Several of the things that got listed on the slate were books which others would have nominated anyway.

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - TrueCon at April 06, 2015 01:44 PM (kff5f)

87 H. Beam Piper was self taught. As he observed he did not see any point spending four years in a racoon coat.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at April 06, 2015 01:44 PM (KB1Tk)

88
Grabthar's Hammer

Love the nick.

Posted by: eleven at April 06, 2015 01:44 PM (63IvN)

89 >>>>Unless thinking of your loved one as a dinosaur is considered fantasy lit.--------

Well one of my kids did call me a dinosaur over the weekend. She also told me she loved me before she left. So there is that.

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at April 06, 2015 01:45 PM (F2IAQ)

90 Congrats, MH.

Nice speech.

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at April 06, 2015 01:45 PM (LA7Cm)

91 Sales have been slow of late so we're looking to jumpstart sales by getting protested.

With your permission we'd like to use this as our back cover blurb

"... Piers Anthony has certainly said some "I love the younger wimmins, they're hawt" things"

Thanks

Posted by: Piers Anthony's Book Publisher at April 06, 2015 01:45 PM (0MJOU)

92 Semi-off-topic, but among the Science Justice Warriors, "Climate communicator" George Marshall has an article in the Guardian saying that climate change scientists need to explicitly treat climate change as a religion.

Add another "religion" to go to war with.

Posted by: rickb223 at April 06, 2015 01:45 PM (xETma)

93 I actually liked Old Man's War and Atrocity Archives so seeing the people behind those books sucking off the SJWs is disappointing.
Posted by: Lauren at April 06, 2015 01:41 PM (0xXrg)

---------------------------------------

What's that old saying? "Ya suck the dick that feeds ya".

Posted by: Soona at April 06, 2015 01:45 PM (/HX7u)

94 I used to read a lot of SF and fantasy type stuff. I quit when it got too PC and sparkly and whatever the F-ity-F this "If you were a dinosaur" type tripe is supposed to be. If it were different, again, I might go back to it.

Posted by: huerfano at April 06, 2015 01:46 PM (bAGA/)

95 Has Neal Stephenson weighed in? His moral relativism rants make me seriously question his commitment to social justice.

Posted by: Lauren at April 06, 2015 01:46 PM (0xXrg)

96 Don't CHORF me, bro!

Posted by: Lincolntf at April 06, 2015 01:47 PM (2cS/G)

97 Totally off-topic, shameless and apropos of nothing:

If anyone is in the market for custom airbrush or body work (on anything from goalie helmets to motorcycles to aircraft, there's only one place to go.

Reasonably-priced, ridiculous turnaround times and an unmatched work ethic make him easy to deal with. An absolutely insane level of talent makes him exceptional in the field. Visit Pop-FX studios and see what he can do for you.

If you want specifics or photos of work he's done for me, contact me. He'll make a believer out of you.

Posted by: Washington Nearsider, Keeper of the Guards at April 06, 2015 01:47 PM (fwARV)

98 Urge to kill, rising.

Posted by: Zombie Robert Heinlein at April 06, 2015 01:48 PM (0MJOU)

99 Where can I start a campaign to remove all acronyms from
Science fiction discussions?

Posted by: Bill Clinton at April 06, 2015 01:48 PM (JcE60)

100 With your permission we'd like to use this as our back cover blurb

Permissiooooon given!

Posted by: bonhomme at April 06, 2015 01:48 PM (jhqr1)

101 It is interesting to see one of the top editors at TOR, Patrick Nielsen Hayden, lambasting two of TOR's own authors, John C. Wright and Kevin J Anderson for participating in the "Sad Puppies" slate. So, this is not even just about sales, because Kevin J Anderson was nominated in the "Best Novel" category for a TOR published novel, but that was not enough to protect him from the badthinkragequit of the SJW. The mere fact that he DARED to associate himself with the evil Sad Puppies people is enough to make him a non-person, suitable only for eradication.

They are pushing for everyone to vote "No Award" in the categories where it looks likely that a Sad Puppies nomination might win, in effect trying to ensure that nothing is given out to anyone they deem unworthy. They have lost their f*cking minds. It is pretty funny.

Posted by: David, infamous sockpuppet at April 06, 2015 01:48 PM (1TUV/)

102 >>>92 Semi-off-topic, but among the Science Justice Warriors, "Climate communicator" George Marshall has an article in the Guardian saying that climate change scientists need to explicitly treat climate change as a religion.----

I thought they already treated it as a religion. Deniers and all

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at April 06, 2015 01:48 PM (F2IAQ)

103 rd, will you always have a soft spot in your heart for Hildegarde?

Nobody fears the Geek Luftwaffe.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at April 06, 2015 01:48 PM (KB1Tk)

104 But sorry guys, as you'll soon learn -- the left never quits. This will just embolden the SJW's.
Posted by: mynewhandle at April 06, 2015 01:26 PM (AkOaV)

A good percentage of the population needs meaning in life as much as most people need food. Since religion is not an option for lefties, they've chosen activism. They would sooner go martyr or jihadi than back down.

Posted by: adolfo_velasquez at April 06, 2015 01:49 PM (T1Jm0)

105 This sort of heavily derivative, borderline amateur work is just not the sort of book to win Best Novel in any awards show

Hey, Ace, I said no peeking at my next novel!

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at April 06, 2015 01:49 PM (zF6Iw)

106
Nice speech.
Posted by: Ricardo Kill at April 06, 2015 01:45 PM (LA7Cm

Thank you Ricardo

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at April 06, 2015 01:49 PM (F2IAQ)

107 Saw Brianna Wu on Twitter posting that it's about "ethics in award journalism without a hint of irony." Posted by: El oh El at April 06, 2015 01:37 PM (XpAxm)

This recent tweet by Brianna was precious levels of special snowflake:

"Gamergate hijacked this year's Hugo Awards, and loaded them with extremist homophobic authors.

My husband has 4 Hugos, and I have thoughts."

Ooooh, 4 Hugos aren't we so special! And in my mind proved the Sad Puppies' point.

Posted by: LizLem at April 06, 2015 01:49 PM (yRwC8)

108 "They are pushing for everyone to vote "No Award" in the categories where it looks likely that a Sad Puppies nomination might win, in effect trying to ensure that nothing is given out to anyone they deem unworthy. They have lost their f*cking minds. It is pretty funny. "

They are motivated by the hate they ascribe to us.

Posted by: Lauren at April 06, 2015 01:49 PM (0xXrg)

109 "Several of the things that got listed on the slate were books which others would have nominated anyway."

Exactly. Jim Butcher's Skin Game is a prime example. It's the 15th (!!!!!) Dresden Files book and he's NEVER gotten a nomination. Travesty.

Posted by: Emile Antoon Khadaji at April 06, 2015 01:50 PM (Nj2wY)

110 Has Neal Stephenson weighed in? His moral relativism rants make me seriously question his commitment to social justice.

Please don't tell me Neal Stephenson is an SJW. Seriously, even if he is just don't tell me.

Posted by: El oh El at April 06, 2015 01:50 PM (XpAxm)

111 36
Small set-back for the SJW's. Next time they'll have their lawyers in
place, their screamers on the internet, and a few judges in their
pockets.

Leftists don't give up.
======
Like how MoveOn just changed the rules after a conservative video was running away with the voting.

Expect them to propose a "panel" to select the awards soon.

Posted by: RoyalOil at April 06, 2015 01:50 PM (ZvKdv)

112 "My husband has 4 Hugos, and I have thoughts."

And how many do you have, bro?

Posted by: Lauren at April 06, 2015 01:50 PM (0xXrg)

113
Is is it like "My Mother the Car"?
Posted by: Soona at April 06, 2015 01:42 PM (/HX7u)

No, it's more like "If you gave a mouse a cookis" crossed with revenge porn.

Posted by: Grabthar's Hammer at April 06, 2015 01:51 PM (Edob3)

114 This may be a bit off topic, but if anyone is looking for a high quality Lace Wig, you know where to go.

Posted by: Quality Lace Wigs at April 06, 2015 01:51 PM (8ZskC)

115 I will say that Correia's "Monster Hunter International" series of books are pretty much required reading for Morons with any proclivities at all towards supernatural monsters that go all 'splody with sufficient application of firepower.

Posted by: filbert at April 06, 2015 01:51 PM (7uT3E)

116 So is Brianna Wu the Homecoming Queen Word Warrior?

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at April 06, 2015 01:51 PM (KB1Tk)

117 I met Larry Correia at a book signing in Mpls. A real nice guy. He stops there on every book tour, and knew most of his fans by name.

The folks at Uncle Hugo's Bookstore read Monster Hunter Inc., when Larry was self published. They got his book in front of the folks at Baen Books. Larry had shopped the book to all the major publishers in NYC. No one bought it. Baen books bought his novel, and the rest is history. Financially lucrative history. Larry quit his middle class day job, and now writes full time.

Posted by: rd at April 06, 2015 01:51 PM (/u1nf)

118 I think Jackie owes some Phi Kappa frat rats a few blow jobs.

Too soon?

Posted by: jwpaine at April 06, 2015 01:52 PM (a3NCX)

119 Where can I start a campaign to remove all acronyms from
Science fiction discussions?

You'll have to file a SCAVA form with the INTOPAL office ASAP on a FOPLE status.

Posted by: Zap Rowsdower at April 06, 2015 01:52 PM (oVJmc)

120 I liked Redshirts. It's not great art, but it's not trying to be either.

Incidentally, the "Puppies" slates did test on quality; crappy stuff by conservatives and libertarians wasn't included, and high-quality works by progtards were included. So they're actually more fair than it sounds like.

Posted by: Ian S. at April 06, 2015 01:52 PM (B/VB5)

121 Nerds!

Posted by: Fred Palowakski at April 06, 2015 01:53 PM (rwI+c)

122 Gamergate hijacked this year's Hugo Awards, and loaded them with extremist homophobic authors.

Really?

So it IS ABOUT IDEOLOGY, then?

Posted by: Zap Rowsdower at April 06, 2015 01:53 PM (oVJmc)

123 I think Jackie owes some Phi Kappa frat rats a few blow jobs.
Posted by: jwpaine at April 06, 2015 01:52 PM (a3NCX)

Frat boys had better get the cash from her up front, though.

Posted by: filbert at April 06, 2015 01:53 PM (7uT3E)

124 88
Grabthar's Hammer

Love the nick.
Posted by: eleven at April 06, 2015 01:44 PM (63IvN)

What. A. Savings....

Posted by: Grabthar's Hammer at April 06, 2015 01:53 PM (Edob3)

125 118 I think Jackie owes some Phi Kappa frat rats a few blow jobs.

Too soon?
Posted by: jwpaine at April 06, 2015 01:52 PM (a3NCX

are the braces off? just asking for a brother.

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at April 06, 2015 01:53 PM (F2IAQ)

126
Too soon?

Never.

Posted by: eleven at April 06, 2015 01:54 PM (63IvN)

127 I thought they already treated it as a religion. Deniers and all

Some of the best Slashdot (unintentional) comedy gold I've ever read was when one of those twerps tried to explain his use of the term "denier" was rational and accurate.

Then proceeded to explain everyone who "denies" AGW are hicks, bumpkins, reflexively anti-science, ignorant of all research, etc.

Posted by: bonhomme at April 06, 2015 01:54 PM (jhqr1)

128 It's gonna be a long long long long seasons for the NY Yankees. Sigh

Posted by: Nevergiveup at April 06, 2015 01:54 PM (rDqRv)

129 I have TOO kissed a girl. In Canada. You wouldn't know her.

Posted by: Sci Fi Reader at April 06, 2015 01:54 PM (vgIRn)

130 Sarah Hoyt has a few good posts about her experiences with that crowd; he latest discusses the abject career fear she had if she opened her mouth about certain topics.

^^^^^^

I read that last night. Just awful. I'm telling you, Heinlein would be persona non grata if he were writing today.

Posted by: Mandy P., lurking lurker who lurks at April 06, 2015 01:55 PM (KkVB6)

131 Frat boys had better get the cash from her up front, though.
Posted by: filbert at April 06, 2015 01:53 PM (7uT3E)[/]

Good point.

Posted by: jwpaine at April 06, 2015 01:55 PM (a3NCX)

132 I have TOO kissed a girl. In Canada. You wouldn't know her.
Posted by: Sci Fi Reader at April 06, 2015 01:54 PM (vgIRn)

I kissed a girl. And I liked it.

Made me a star, too.

Posted by: Katy Perry at April 06, 2015 01:55 PM (7uT3E)

133 128 It's gonna be a long long long long seasons for the NY Yankees. Sigh
Posted by: Nevergiveup at April 06, 2015 01:54 PM (rDqRv

1 down and 161 to go. Amirite?

Or you can get all geared up for the Jets draft.

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at April 06, 2015 01:56 PM (F2IAQ)

134
It's gonna be a long long long long seasons for the NY Yankees. Sigh

wah

Posted by: eleven at April 06, 2015 01:56 PM (63IvN)

135 "I quit after 3 pages. The deal breaker was a full page description of and old man filling out a form."

Then you missed out, because on page four it really took off when the old man sorted through the lint-filled contents of his trouser pocket looking for change to make a photo-copy of the form.

Posted by: Citizen Cake at April 06, 2015 01:56 PM (PtTYB)

136 Hey Luap I have to wonder if the mental genii like Wu have read Hugo winners from the 1960s and 1970s?

Word for World is Forest, Goat Song, I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream, The Girl Who Was Plugged In, and others.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at April 06, 2015 01:56 PM (KB1Tk)

137 !

Posted by: jwpaine at April 06, 2015 01:57 PM (a3NCX)

138 "Or you can get all geared up for the Jets draft. "

Mariotta.

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at April 06, 2015 01:57 PM (LA7Cm)

139
Posted by: Grabthar's Hammer at April 06, 2015 01:42 PM (Edob3)
Whoops, thanks for the correction! That it got so many nominations is disturbing.I really meant to sign up for Hugo noms this year, slipped my mind. Wonder if the WonderCon people will change the rules next year to make those who can vote on the Hugo noms more "exclusive", ie the "right" sort of PC lefty voters, and restore the "right" sort of nominees. Hope not, I want to sign up next year. If the Sad Puppies really make a difference, maybe will get a huge stack of books worth reading, the ones they send you so that you can vote.

Posted by: LizLem at April 06, 2015 01:57 PM (yRwC8)

140
Then you missed out, because on page four it really took off when the old man sorted through the lint-filled contents of his trouser pocket looking for change to make a photo-copy of the form.

::dang::

Posted by: eleven at April 06, 2015 01:58 PM (63IvN)

141 I have hatey hate going for whatever comment in this thread caused me to suddenly start remembering Duran Duran's "Girls On Film".

Damn. Damn. Damn.

Hatey hate, I tell you.

Posted by: filbert at April 06, 2015 01:58 PM (7uT3E)

142 LEftist ALWAYS coast on the accrued reputation of institutions, abusing it for their own ends until they've burned through that reputation and left the host institution a useless shell of its former self.

For example, the Nobel Prize Prize once held great importance. if you won one, it was a Very Big Deal.

Then the SJWs and assorted leftists seized control of the Nobel Peace Prize, and began handing it out to people who were marginal and irrelevant, or who were wholly undeserving -- awarding the prize solely on political considerations (i.e to fellow leftists and Noble Savages).

At first, when the prize still had cachet and significance, people would go, "Oooooh, that interesting dusky socialist won the prize! How significant!"

But each time the Prize committee did that, they eroded the Prize's social currency and reputation. Each awarding to the next interesting dusky socialist degraded the Nobel Peace prize that much more, until (of course) 2009 when the final awarding to the final interesting dusky socialist completely collapsed the Prize's reputation permanently.

In the end, the very concept of the Nobel Peace prize was destroyed. The Reputation Vampires sucked it dry.

The same thing has been happening with the Hugo (and other sci-fi) awards. And everything else the Left parasitizes as well.

Posted by: zombie at April 06, 2015 01:59 PM (K4YiS)

143 It's gonna be a long long long long seasons for the NY Yankees. Sigh

Posted by: Nevergiveup at April 06, 2015 01:54 PM (rDqRv)

Could be worse, your #2 pitcher and major free agent acquisition didn't just get busted for performance enhancing drugs. Santana is out until July 4.

Here it comes, Another 90 loss season! #4 to be exact.

Posted by: twins fan at April 06, 2015 01:59 PM (/u1nf)

144 Heinlein won four Hugos. Back when they meant something.

Posted by: jwpaine at April 06, 2015 01:59 PM (a3NCX)

145
Jackie is my hero, and I want to award her with a blowjob.

Posted by: Rosie O'Donnell at April 06, 2015 01:59 PM (P330y)

146
Hatey hate, I tell you.

Mmmmm........sounds serial.

Posted by: eleven at April 06, 2015 02:00 PM (63IvN)

147 138 "Or you can get all geared up for the Jets draft. "

Mariotta.
Posted by: Ricardo Kill at April 06, 2015 01:57 PM (LA7Cm

The Buccaneers (Under my Bucknhat) should draft him. But no, they'll pick the Jamis kid. They don't have enough turmoil in their organization, yet.

Titans will choose Mariotta which means they have blown a number of #1s on qbs over the past few years.

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at April 06, 2015 02:00 PM (F2IAQ)

148 The winner of this year's Annual Montgomery Burns Award for Outstanding Achievement in the Field of Excellence is... Ace of Spades HQ's inanimate Valu-Rite bottle.

Posted by: charles montgomery burns at April 06, 2015 02:00 PM (kivUY)

149 144 Heinlein won four Hugos. Back when they meant something.
Posted by: jwpaine

"Back when they meant something" makes my point more succinctly!

Posted by: zombie at April 06, 2015 02:01 PM (K4YiS)

150 Hugo from Bob's Burgers is a real prick, and his face is upside down.

Posted by: Lincolntf at April 06, 2015 02:01 PM (2cS/G)

151 LEftist ALWAYS coast on the accrued reputation of institutions, abusing it for their own ends until they've burned through that reputation and left the host institution a useless shell of its former self.

Leftists are cultural locusts. They consume everything in sight, and leave deserts behind.

Posted by: filbert at April 06, 2015 02:01 PM (7uT3E)

152 What's that??

SJWs are butthurt over something?

MOAR LIKE THIS PLZ.

Posted by: Tex Lovera at April 06, 2015 02:01 PM (wtvvX)

153 "Scalzi, who's very butthurt today," umm Ace, about that "butthurt" thing, I'm pretty sure that's out of bounds these days. The preferred term is "post anal exploration happiness".

Trying to be helpful.

Posted by: Suppressed Flasher at April 06, 2015 02:01 PM (X+nFp)

154 Posted by: twins fan at April 06, 2015 01:59 PM (/u1nf

But he promises he'll be more careful in what he puts in his body in the future.

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at April 06, 2015 02:01 PM (F2IAQ)

155
LET'S GO ROYALS!!!

clap clap clap-clap-clap

Posted by: fixerupper at April 06, 2015 02:01 PM (NaV4z)

156 We have 3 number 5 pitchers and no ace. On the plus side, there's the boomstick hotdog. Yay.

Posted by: Rangers fan at April 06, 2015 02:02 PM (0xXrg)

157 Posted by: LizLem at April 06, 2015 01:57 PM (yRwC

It takes a couple of years to make a change like that (Adopted and then ratified the next year). There's even a proposal to make it three years in process (two ratifications) up for final vote this year. Or so I'm told.

Regarding the the SMOF/CHORFs and their "they're not REAL fans, it belongs to Worldcon!" attitude: I want to grb them and shake them and scream "Did we not become members of Worldcon? Do we not love SF? ARE WE NOT FANS?"

Posted by: Grabthar's Hammer at April 06, 2015 02:02 PM (Edob3)

158 Scalzi's Red Shirt won a Hugo, christ that was a mediocre book at best, and I generally Sclazi, well his older stuff.

Good on Correia and Torgersen for using the SWFA own tactics against them. And Correia sells a lot of books.

Posted by: Penfold at April 06, 2015 02:02 PM (Fbt5B)

159 Leftists are cultural locusts. They consume everything in sight, and leave deserts behind.

Posted by: filbert at April 06, 2015 02:01 PM (7uT3E)

Excellent analogy.

Posted by: Tex Lovera at April 06, 2015 02:02 PM (wtvvX)

160 "Back when they meant something" makes my point more succinctly!
Posted by: zombie at April 06, 2015 02:01 PM (K4YiS)

You know I always got your back, zombie.

Posted by: jwpaine at April 06, 2015 02:02 PM (a3NCX)

161 ARE WE NOT FANS?"
Posted by: Grabthar's Hammer at April 06, 2015 02:02 PM (Edob3)

You know the words, people.

Posted by: Devo at April 06, 2015 02:03 PM (7uT3E)

162 Posted by: zombie at April 06, 2015 01:59 PM (K4YiS)

When Henry Kissinger won the Nobel for the Vietnam War Peace Accord, the North Vietnamese Co-winner had the integrity to not accept the award. He knew the war was not over.

Imagine, a Communist with Integrity?

Posted by: twins fan at April 06, 2015 02:03 PM (/u1nf)

163 101 It is interesting to see one of the top editors at TOR, Patrick Nielsen Hayden, lambasting two of TOR's own authors, John C. Wright and Kevin J Anderson for participating in the "Sad Puppies" slate.

****

I had a lot of respect for PNH from the old usenet rec.arts.sf.written days. Oh well, nothing lasts forever.

Posted by: lymond at April 06, 2015 02:03 PM (DcPHq)

164 "Scalzi, who's very butthurt today," umm Ace, about that "butthurt" thing, I'm pretty sure that's out of bounds these days. The preferred term is "post anal exploration happiness".

Trying to be helpful.

aka, a case of the red ass, for those that don't care about feelings.

Posted by: rickb223 at April 06, 2015 02:03 PM (xETma)

165 114 Quality Lace Wigs,

Get off my corner hoser....

//Ugg Boots

Posted by: The Smiling Bandit@sven10077 at April 06, 2015 02:03 PM (p7u7Y)

166 Red Sox/Phillies in an hour. I've got three or maybe four starting pitchers going in Fantasy today, gonna do a lot of web/channel surfing.

Posted by: Lincolntf at April 06, 2015 02:03 PM (2cS/G)

167 H. Beam Piper was self taught. As he observed he did not see any point spending four years in a racoon coat.

My wife, Pat, does not even own a fur coat!!!

Posted by: Some guy named Richard Mulhouse ... at April 06, 2015 02:04 PM (nSOh+)

168
>>Did anyone read the "If you were a dinosaur my love?" short story that won a Hugo? It is terrible. It is drivel. And most offensive of all, it has NOTHING to do with scifi or fantasy! Unless thinking of your loved one as a dinosaur is considered fantasy lit.

Yeah, i tried to read that. I am mystified how that was nominated for anything at all, let alone something in Scifi. For multiple reasons.

This whole thing has been very entertaining, but I don't read most of the categories, just novels. (one category for novels and like 20 for short stories and fanzine/fanwriting/compilation stuff. I guess editing is important but I don't have any opinions on it). I don't quite get the short story obsession in scifi. I don't think that's true of other genre's is it?

I would love to see Butcher win, though, because I've been reading him for years and skingame was fantastic.

Posted by: Lea at April 06, 2015 02:04 PM (lIU4e)

169
LEftist ALWAYS coast on the accrued reputation of institutions, abusing it for their own ends until they've burned through that reputation and left the host institution a useless shell of its former self.

--

It is called 'appeal to authority' and it has ruined many institutions, including the public schools. Most of modern culture is now based on the expectation that everyone does what the various 'experts' tell them to do in all aspects of their life.

Posted by: Vashta Nerada at April 06, 2015 02:04 PM (dquK7)

170 Since the pizzeria thing, I reject the term "Social Justice Warrior".

I proclaim that "Social Justice Terrorist" is the correct term.

Posted by: Optimizer at April 06, 2015 02:04 PM (/q6+P)

171 " Do we not love SF? ARE WE NOT FANS?"

LOL! No! Real SF fans want stories about transgender aliens fighting against evil white men, duh!

Posted by: SJW at April 06, 2015 02:04 PM (0xXrg)

172
You know the words, people.

Here in my car I feel safest of all?

Posted by: eleven at April 06, 2015 02:05 PM (63IvN)

173 I meant generally like Scalzi, used to be a regular on his blog, when he would pimp books, but i finally got tired of his CJ ways.

Posted by: Penfold at April 06, 2015 02:05 PM (Fbt5B)

174 "I have TOO kissed a girl. In Canada. You wouldn't know her."
Posted by: Sci Fi Reader at April 06, 2015 01:54 PM (vgIRn)

Rule of thumb:

If the "girl" in question is good looking, has a nice body and agrees to kiss you, it's a fairly good bet that she is (technically) not a girl.

Posted by: jwest at April 06, 2015 02:05 PM (9ZZd+)

175 164 rickb223,

We reject with righteous fury the categorizationof "red" as angry...

//Sore Ass Communists locsl 957

Posted by: The Smiling Bandit@sven10077 at April 06, 2015 02:05 PM (p7u7Y)

176 94 I used to read a lot of SF and fantasy type stuff. I quit when it got too PC and sparkly and whatever the F-ity-F this "If you were a dinosaur" type tripe is supposed to be. If it were different, again, I might go back to it.
Posted by: huerfano at April 06, 2015 01:46 PM (bAGA/)

The thing is, I can deal with some of the newfangled PC ideas or characters that don't conform to the norm, etc and so on, IF it's just where the story happens to lead. It has to be organic. What drives me nuts is when the author basically slaps this stuff on either to preach or to appease.

For example, I recently read the Watergivers fantasy series. Overall the books were great. But in book two the author throws in the gay character. Not a character for whom his sexuality is just a part of who he is. It was obviously the gay dude as this guy's entire purpose in the book was to be gay. And in the third one we were introduced to the trans character, again whose entire purpose was to be a transsexual. Added absolutely nothing to the story at all and they were both completely one dimensional, throw away characters.

On the other side of things, I also recently read the Darksword trilogy and the main villain is basically an analogue of the Pope. The entire religious structure, which is not shown in a happy light, is the Catholic Church transplanted to another world and lightly reorganized around a magical society. In fact, it's all but stated that this is just the magical folks continuation of Catholicism but on another planet. I'm a devout Catholic and it did not bother me in the slightest because it was well done and organic and did not come across as screechy or preachy.

Posted by: Mandy P., lurking lurker who lurks at April 06, 2015 02:06 PM (KkVB6)

177 35 "Some on the left claim that the Anti-SJW people are basically making the SJW bias in these organizations up"

Yes, the same politically-correct adherents that claim there's no such thing as political correctness.

I was told by a CHORF supporter, in no uncertain terms, that wanting to judge submissions by the writing and story quality, ie, merit, was just my privilege talking and that any attempt to judge based on merit was just another facet of the patriarchy. There was zero irony in that person's comment.
Posted by: Scott M at April 06, 2015 01:34 PM (AdBfq)

These SMOF/CHORFs care less about what is written than who wrote it, plain and simple.

Posted by: Grabthar's Hammer at April 06, 2015 02:06 PM (Edob3)

178 I read that last night. Just awful. I'm telling you, Heinlein would be persona non grata if he were writing today. Posted by: Mandy P., lurking lurker who lurks at April 06, 2015 01:55 PM (KkVB6)

Would Bradbury even get a Hugo nom today? He has a surprising amount of libertarian/conservative views if people pay attention to his interviews, and was pretty much against a creeping government. That by today's standards voting for him would probably be on the fence, tells you all you need to know about the state of the Hugos.

Posted by: LizLem at April 06, 2015 02:06 PM (yRwC8)

179 I proclaim that "Social Justice Terrorist" is the correct term.
Posted by: Optimizer at April 06, 2015 02:04 PM (/q6+P)

Naw. "Social Justice Warrior" serves to trivialize them in a most satisfying and realistic way. Besides, they hate war. Terrorism, in the right cause, they have zero problem with, as we repeatedly witness.

Posted by: filbert at April 06, 2015 02:06 PM (7uT3E)

180 I actually liked Old Man's War and Atrocity Archives so seeing the people behind those books sucking off the SJWs is disappointing.
Posted by: Lauren at April 06, 2015 01:41 PM (0xXrg)

Stross is ambiguous, but Scalzi is one of the lead attack dogs of the SJW lynch mob.

Posted by: filbert at April 06, 2015 01:43 PM (7uT3E)

Chas Stross is one of my favorite authors and much, much smarter than Scalzi, even though a leftard.

But, even he went full progtard, and wrote the worst novel of his career, "The Atrocity Archives"-

where quality went right out the window in his effort to be more "lefty than thou".

Fortunately, Stross seems to have realized since then that writing a leftard screed doth not a good novel make-

and has retreated a bit from that position in subsequent books.

Let me see if I saved my review of TAA, it's a bit long so skip if so inclined.

But, it's a great example of how hatchet-headed adherence to leftism ruins everything it touches.

Posted by: naturalfake at April 06, 2015 02:07 PM (0cMkb)

181 Social Terrorist Democrats. Stamp out STD's!

Posted by: Lincolntf at April 06, 2015 02:08 PM (2cS/G)

182 I've read a number of Scalzi's books, also before I found out he is such a petulant prick. Enjoyed them, but won't be reading anymore.

I lick his tears off his sad opossum face.

Posted by: TBolt69 at April 06, 2015 02:08 PM (dNYmW)

183 Redshirts started out with a slightly catchy premise, and degenerated into crap at the end of the book, wherein the author decided he didn't have to constrained by the rules of the universe he set up.

Not Hugo material.

And Scalzi is an leftist elitist prick.

Think of the insufferable holier than-thou attitude held by most listeners to "prairie home companion", and amp it up with the slavish he-can-do-no-wrong attitude of Ron Paul followers (Scalzi's fans).

Scalzi had one good book in him, and his entire rep is built on that.

Posted by: West at April 06, 2015 02:08 PM (1Rgee)

184
"One article I'd like to see written is a more rigorous recapitulation of the "CHORFs" abuse over the years, particularly with respect to passing out awards to people based on identity politics."

Obama won a Nobel Peace Prize when he got elected. Gore won one for making a movie about global warming, along with an Oscar. For many years Pulitzers have been awarded based on politics. The list of false and fake awards is practically endless.

Posted by: D. McCoy at April 06, 2015 02:08 PM (/EkKm)

185 You know, in the ancient days when I did literary analysis of sci fi, one of the tenents of the genre was that the main character went against the grain of the future society. It seems that trait has disappeared, not only from the characters, but the authors as well.

Posted by: Vashta Nerada at April 06, 2015 02:09 PM (dquK7)

186 In the end, the very concept of the Nobel Peace prize was destroyed. The Reputation Vampires sucked it dry.

The same thing has been happening with the Hugo (and other sci-fi) awards. And everything else the Left parasitizes as well.

Posted by: zombie at April 06, 2015 01:59 PM (K4YiS)

Obama getting the peace prize pretty much ended any worth that award had.

Posted by: Berserker-Dragonheads Division at April 06, 2015 02:09 PM (FMbng)

187 Would Bradbury even get a Hugo nom today?

What about Orwell? Pretty sure Animal Farm and 1984 would have a lot of people butthurt umm "post anal exploration happiness", red assed or whatever.

Posted by: Suppressed Flasher at April 06, 2015 02:09 PM (X+nFp)

188
>>>Again, all I care about is if the books are good. Frankly, I am just as pissed off when an author shoves libertarian/conservative/right wing politics down my throat in a story as I am if it's left wing. If it works with the characters and the story, fine, but don't shoe horn it in there.
Completely agree AtC! I like when the politicsare something you onlythink aboutlater, when you are digesting what's going on with the story. I don't like overtly political works, generally. At least, that's not what I read for.

I don't like to read non-fiction about politics either, actually. Economics sometimes (Milton Friedman for example), but never politics.

Posted by: Lea at April 06, 2015 02:09 PM (lIU4e)

189 I saw Dusky Socialist open for Reputation Vampires at the Pumpehuset in Copenhagen in '13.

Posted by: toby928(C) at April 06, 2015 02:09 PM (rwI+c)

190 It's gonna be a long long long long seasons for the NY Yankees. Sigh

Could be worst. You could be an Indian or Cubs fan.

Posted by: wrg500 at April 06, 2015 02:10 PM (sgrzZ)

191 Regarding the the SMOF/CHORFs and their "they're not
REAL fans, it belongs to Worldcon!" attitude: I want to grb them and
shake them and scream "Did we not become members of Worldcon? Do we not
love SF? ARE WE NOT FANS?" Posted by: Grabthar's Hammer at April 06, 2015 02:02 PM (Edob3)

Nope. Because again according to Brianna's Twitter:
"Gamergate has no place in fandom. Not in videogames, not in comics, and not in sci-fi.

This is our culture, not yours. Get the hell out."

And this bully goes has the gall to Tweet later: "If you're a bully? I'm sorry, you lose your seat at the geek table - end of story. Go somewhere else, Gamergate."

The stupid is strong in the SJWs. And it is TRUE scifi/fantasy fans, not snarling reactionaries with an axe to grind, that suffer.

Posted by: LizLem at April 06, 2015 02:11 PM (yRwC8)

192
I tried to read a Ben Bova book but I had to put it down cause dick wouldn't stop with the "back when Global Warming destroyed the Earf" shit.

Douche. It was shaping up to be a pretty damn good yarn too. Hated putting it down.

Posted by: eleven at April 06, 2015 02:11 PM (63IvN)

193 >>Obama getting the peace prize pretty much ended any worth that award had.

*Ahem* I got there first.

Posted by: Zombie Yasser Arafat at April 06, 2015 02:12 PM (cXQJ2)

194 I saw The Social Justice Warriors open for The Butthurt Surfers at the 40 Watt Club in Athens in 87.

Posted by: Suppressed Flasher at April 06, 2015 02:12 PM (X+nFp)

195 You'll have to file a SCAVA form with the INTOPAL office ASAP on a FOPLE status.
Posted by: Zap Rowsdower at April 06, 2015 01:52 PM (oVJmc)

Heh. Back when I and the (late, lamented) BFF were running a fandom forum, we had a Make An Acronym contest. Put up an acronym, everyone else had to guess what it was.

And you scamps think I have a potty mouth.

Posted by: alexthechick - Hi again everybody! at April 06, 2015 02:12 PM (mf5HN)

196 182 I've read a number of Scalzi's books, also before I found out he is such a petulant prick. Enjoyed them, but won't be reading anymore.

I lick his tears off his sad opossum face.
Posted by: TBolt69 at April 06, 2015 02:08 PM (dNYmW)

He *used* to have a good rep with the right/libertarians, mostly from Insty plugging his stuff. But decided to shit all over the rest of us in pursuit of being liked by the publishing establishment.

Oh, and the quality of his work has been largely terrible ever since. Redshirts may be fun, but it didn't belong in Best Novel. Best Related Work would have been a better fit.

Posted by: Grabthar's Hammer at April 06, 2015 02:12 PM (Edob3)

197 Jim Hoft @gatewaypundit 6m6 minutes ago
LEAD SUSPECT in Harry Reid's Beating -- His Brother -- Is Arrested for Assaulting Police http://shar.es/1gddHP via @gatewaypundit

Posted by: Costanza Defense at April 06, 2015 02:13 PM (ZPrif)

198 And you scamps think I have a potty mouth.

Posted by: alexthechick - Hi again everybody! at April 06, 2015 02:12 PM (mf5HN)

Think???

Posted by: wrg500 at April 06, 2015 02:13 PM (sgrzZ)

199 The whole point behind "Redshirts" is to "flip the narrative" and reconceive a classic story from the viewpoint of the lower class or of the outsiders.

The best-known and groundbreaking example of this was "Rosencrantz and Guildenstern," which is the exact story of Hamlet but told from the point of view of two extremely minor characters in the original play, who say just a couple lines. It was considered "revolutionary" to relegate Hamlet and Ophelia and Polonius and the rest to peripheral status and side characters, while elevating the outsiders (R&G) to the central role.

Ever since that play came out, it has been a standard trope to rewrite every classic story from the "other" perspective.

Considering this, the premise behind "Redshirts" was not original at all, but extremely derivative.

But no matter -- it matched the SJW template, so the award it must get.

Posted by: zombie at April 06, 2015 02:13 PM (K4YiS)

200 So Harry Reid has a violent younger brother, Larry Reid, who occasionally gets drunk and punches people.

Posted by: Costanza Defense at April 06, 2015 02:14 PM (ZPrif)

201 I saw The Social Justice Warriors open for The Butthurt Surfers at the 40 Watt Club in Athens in 87.

With Van Däniken on keyboard!? I hope you framed the ticket stub.

Posted by: toby928(C) at April 06, 2015 02:15 PM (rwI+c)

202
And you scamps think I have a potty mouth.

We didn't say potty mouth we said purty mouth.

knowmsayin

Posted by: eleven at April 06, 2015 02:15 PM (63IvN)

203 This actually seems legit and not just trolling.

Reid Family Values Prime Suspect in Beatdown of Elderly Senator Arrested for Assault on Cop
http://tinyurl.com/k95elw9

Posted by: Costanza Defense at April 06, 2015 02:15 PM (ZPrif)

204 So Harry Reid has a violent younger brother,

Hmmm.

I wonder if he was abused as a child. By....someone.

Posted by: Zap Rowsdower at April 06, 2015 02:16 PM (oVJmc)

205 189 I saw Dusky Socialist open for Reputation Vampires at the Pumpehuset in Copenhagen in '13.
Posted by: toby928(C)

Hey, I was there too! I tried stage-diving, but the Scandi Goths in the audience just let me hit the floor.

Posted by: zombie at April 06, 2015 02:16 PM (K4YiS)

206 Insty has been linking to Sarah Hoyt's blog for a long time and recently Correia's. He also keeps recommending "Fallen Angels" in response to the global warmist idiots.

When Mieville became popular, I kind of gave up on reading the recommended stuff (by the arrogant socialists) because I found it incomprehensible.

Posted by: mustbequantum at April 06, 2015 02:16 PM (MIKMs)

207
Agreed with goodbooks issue, and as that seems to be the point of the Sad Puppies, more power to them.

My guilty pleasure is Black Library (WHFB/WH40K), despite the fact that both have themes and worldviews in them that I don't agree with, but some of the books are fairly well written and tell a good story, and I read them for that. Others get so lost in dystopic grey goo for its own sake, and are filled with bad characters and cringe-worthy prose such that they aren't much worth reading.

Posted by: lurkingestlurker-Giant Monastic Plush Porcupine on a Pirate Ship at April 06, 2015 02:17 PM (k8xvx)

208 187 Would Bradbury even get a Hugo nom today?

What about Orwell? Pretty sure Animal Farm and 1984 would have a lot of people butthurt umm "post anal exploration happiness", red assed or whatever.
Posted by: Suppressed Flasher at April 06, 2015 02:09 PM (X+nFp)

I was going to say the same thing, but you said it first. And you're right. Orwell's explorations into the dark potential of socialism and leftism in Animal Farm and 1984 would see him ousted from the "respectable" SF/F circles today, even though the dude was a fricking Socialist. Just that bit of deviation from SJW orthodoxy gets you excommunicated from the clique.

Posted by: Mandy P., lurking lurker who lurks at April 06, 2015 02:17 PM (KkVB6)

209 200 Constanza Defense,

It's one dude

//Tyler Durden

Posted by: The Smiling Bandit@sven10077 at April 06, 2015 02:17 PM (p7u7Y)

210 "151
LEftist ALWAYS coast on the accrued reputation of institutions,
abusing it for their own ends until they've burned through that
reputation and left the host institution a useless shell of its former
self.

Leftists are cultural locusts. They consume everything in sight, and leave deserts behind.

Posted by: filbert at April 06, 2015 02:01 PM (7uT3E)"

In this case, I would say the better analogy is the icheumon wasp which lays it eggs in the body of another creature. As its young hatch, they eat the living victim from the inside until there is nothing left but a husk.

Posted by: Obnoxious A-Hole at April 06, 2015 02:17 PM (KDbAT)

211 A lot of it is just myopic self-importance. I've just started reading a collection of the best short stories from OMNI Magazine, and in the introduction, Robert Sheckley talks about how in the eighties science fiction turned to being about limited resources, and also no longer assumes American hegemony in space, and that the Russians might be beating us.

Meanwhile, literally sitting right next to it in my to-read pile, is Harry Harrison's 1966 Make Room! Make Room!, which was made into the classic 1973 Soylent Green, which was about, of course, limited resources.

And the notion that science fiction previous to the eighties assumed an American hegemony in space throws out pretty much the entire category of space opera, which assumed competing factions and usually wars in space. (And also ignores that the space race itself was started by the Russians pulling ahead before we even got started.)

Posted by: Stephen Price Blair at April 06, 2015 02:17 PM (J0IP0)

212 Some of the best science fiction writing of the last few years can be found in Al Gore's memoirs.

Posted by: Seamus Muldoon, a solid man at April 06, 2015 02:17 PM (NeFrd)

213 Heh. Back when I and the (late, lamented) BFF were running a fandom forum, we had a Make An Acronym contest. Put up an acronym, everyone else had to guess what it was. And you scamps think I have a potty mouth.
Posted by: alexthechick - Hi again everybody! at April 06, 2015 02:12 PM (mf5HN)

--------------------------------------

YFAWD!

Posted by: Soona at April 06, 2015 02:17 PM (/HX7u)

214 Posted by: LizLem at April 06, 2015 02:11 PM (yRwC

See, that's the thing; this isn't related, involved, associated, sponsored, or whatever with Gamergate. At. All. No matter what Brianna wants people to think so she can get her petty way.

Posted by: Grabthar's Hammer at April 06, 2015 02:18 PM (Edob3)

215 Posted by: toby928(C) at April 06, 2015 02:15 PM (rwI+c)

Ticket stubs?

Hell we could be barely speak in complete sentences.

Posted by: Suppressed Flasher at April 06, 2015 02:18 PM (X+nFp)

216 The person's hands were on my back. I was being hugged, rhythmically. Why?

You have to remember I really wasn't yet capable of full consciousness.

Then I realized my coverall was unzipped down the front. And the person was male. And I felt, besides the pain in my tail and the pressure between my legs, a tingling realization. I was weightless. I was in space.

That was why the guy was hugging me. Rape is more difficult in weightlessness. A man has to pull himself into you.

pg 159-160. Beyond Rejection. Justin Leiber. Del Rey. 1980.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at April 06, 2015 02:18 PM (KB1Tk)

217 The "wrong kind of fans" thing proves Insty's frequent point for him: a lot of SJW stuff is just rich white people telling the rest of the white people to know their place.

Posted by: Ian S. at April 06, 2015 02:18 PM (B/VB5)

218 A great overview article from an involved player - and great author: http://madgeniusclub.com/2015/04/06/bring-it-on/

BTW, madgeniusclub.com is one of the best sites for well-written, incisive commentary on the various SJW-gates.

Posted by: great unknown at April 06, 2015 02:19 PM (VoYJt)

219
I never understood how Scalzi was born in Fairfield, CA and then went to all these toney private schools.

Posted by: Bruce J. at April 06, 2015 02:19 PM (iQIUe)

220 So there is a Geek riot among the Trekkies? Wow, who knew things could go this Haitian?

Posted by: Super Creepy Eric Hoteham at April 06, 2015 02:19 PM (oDCMR)

221 pg 159-160. Beyond Rejection. Justin Leiber. Del Rey. 1980.
Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at April 06, 2015 02:18 PM (KB1Tk)

Beyond Ejaculation.

FIFY

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at April 06, 2015 02:19 PM (F2IAQ)

222 I know little about GamerGate or some of the other stuff discussed in this thread. But I will say this, fcuking a Scarecrow?!?! Why can't people just put their dicks in the toaster like a normal person?

Posted by: ghost of hallelujah at April 06, 2015 02:20 PM (7RXcs)

223
In this case, I would say the better analogy is the icheumon wasp which lays it eggs in the body of another creature. As its young hatch, they eat the living victim from the inside until there is nothing left but a husk.

Gotta admit that's a pretty badass wasp.

Posted by: eleven at April 06, 2015 02:21 PM (63IvN)

224 Posted by: mustbequantum at April 06, 2015 02:16 PM (MIKMs)

Fallen Angels is quite good, and for us mundanes it gives a tantalizing glimpse into hardcore fandom. It references actual things that happened at one con or another. See Michael Z. Williamson's blog for details.

Posted by: Grabthar's Hammer at April 06, 2015 02:21 PM (Edob3)

225 ......think I have a potty mouth.
Posted by: alexthechick - Hi again everybody! at April 06, 2015 02:12 PM (mf5HN)

I do not think of you as a potty mouth. I think of you as a highly emphatic speaker.

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at April 06, 2015 02:21 PM (F2IAQ)

226
A riot among trekkies? What do they do? Yank on each others vulcan ears??

Posted by: Bruce J. at April 06, 2015 02:22 PM (iQIUe)

227 In this case, I would say the better analogy is the icheumon wasp which lays it eggs in the body of another creature. As its young hatch, they eat the living victim from the inside until there is nothing left but a husk.

Gotta admit that's a pretty badass wasp.
Posted by: eleven at April 06, 2015 02:21 PM (63IvN)

--------------------------------------------

I think the Tarantula Wasp does that.

Posted by: Soona at April 06, 2015 02:22 PM (/HX7u)

228 Wonder how it would cost to get Harry's brother liquored up again and have another go at the esteemed Senator?

Posted by: Suppressed Flasher at April 06, 2015 02:22 PM (X+nFp)

229 Bored of the Rings was hilarious. Sitting in lecture in 1971, I used to break out laughing just thinking about it.

Posted by: gp at April 06, 2015 02:22 PM (mk9aG)

230 I love Fallen Angels, and I think it is one of the free Baen ebooks in their library.

Posted by: nnptcgrad at April 06, 2015 02:23 PM (81UWZ)

231 Wow this thread is way existential...

Posted by: hello it's Me Donna... again at April 06, 2015 02:23 PM (Bn6aD)

232 Fallen Angels is a good story because it works even if you don't get the in jokes.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at April 06, 2015 02:23 PM (KB1Tk)

233 228 Wonder how it would cost to get Harry's brother liquored up again and have another go at the esteemed Senator?
Posted by: Suppressed Flasher at April 06, 2015 02:22 PM (X+nFp

GoFundMe

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at April 06, 2015 02:23 PM (F2IAQ)

234 I do not think of you as a potty mouth. I think of you as a highly emphatic speaker.

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at April 06, 2015 02:21 PM (F2IAQ)

Very diplomatically put, nicely done. *Golf Clap*

Posted by: wrg500 at April 06, 2015 02:23 PM (sgrzZ)

235 I seem to have bad luck with concerts. Somewhere in a box I have tickets to an Elvis concert that never happened because he died, and I have tickets to the New Orleans stop for Led Zepplin's 1977 NA tour.

I also missed my chance to hear Harry Chapin in a small 500 person venue because 'Hey, he'll be here next year, right?'

Posted by: toby928(C) at April 06, 2015 02:24 PM (rwI+c)

236 A riot among the Trekkies?

As Sharyn McCrumb said in Bimbos of the Death Sun, "I fed MMs to the Martians."

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at April 06, 2015 02:24 PM (KB1Tk)

237 ... tickets to an Elvis concert that never happened because he died...

Posted by: toby928(C) at April 06, 2015 02:24 PM (rwI+c)

****

Elvis isn't dead. He's just gone home.

Posted by: Seamus Muldoon, a solid man at April 06, 2015 02:25 PM (NeFrd)

238 Reid Family Values Prime Suspect in Beatdown of Elderly Senator Arrested for Assault on Cop

Can we set up a GoFundMe to bail him out so he can go kick Harry's ass agani?

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at April 06, 2015 02:25 PM (zF6Iw)

239 The sad part is that I know longer look for new SciFi.

The only books I read are the ones published by Baen. I keep trying other books that look interesting, and after about two chapters, its dropped. It has happened with one or two Baen published books, but it has happened with every other publisher's book everytime.

Now I just look at what Baen has out, and pick one or two of them.

I even like Eric Flint, and he is a hard core Union Activist, and card carrying communist, but he can write a decent story. And he is actually an American Patriot at heart.

Posted by: rd at April 06, 2015 02:25 PM (/u1nf)

240 Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at April 06, 2015 02:23 PM (F2IAQ)

HOLD ALL CALLS!

WE HAVE THE THREADWINNER!

SALUTE!

Posted by: Suppressed Flasher at April 06, 2015 02:25 PM (X+nFp)

241 "I fed MMs to the Martians."

*****

Here- have one of mine- &&&&&&&

&&&&&&&&&

Posted by: Seamus Muldoon, a solid man at April 06, 2015 02:26 PM (NeFrd)

242 I also missed my chance to hear Harry Chapin in a small 500 person venue because 'Hey, he'll be here next year, right?'

Saw him at Mansfield ST, he was died the following week

Posted by: wrg500 at April 06, 2015 02:26 PM (sgrzZ)

243 What would happen if a Tarantula wasp laid it's eggs in a spider-worm?

Posted by: eleven at April 06, 2015 02:26 PM (63IvN)

244 I'm proud to announce, today, 4/6/2015 that I'm opening a chain of Bakeshops/Sci-fi bookstores in our National Park System.

It will cater to the cisgender, minority peoples who are sorely underrepresented in this society.

Posted by: MikeH at April 06, 2015 02:26 PM (zqzYV)

245 a Geek riot among the Trekkies

Har.

But seriously: they've been sodomizing each other in the bathrooms at the cons whilst wearing rubber ear-tips for a while now.

Posted by: Snoodling World Champ 1997 at April 06, 2015 02:26 PM (Q819Q)

246 ***"But sorry guys, as you'll soon learn -- the left never quits. This will just embolden the SJW's."***

GamerGate is a great example of this. GG was/is kicking serious ass on the rhetorical level, and even a little deeper on the advertiser level, but the radical Left - knowing how to play the game and play it well - managed to get their side inserted into some proposed school curriculum.

I think Yid with Lid covered that.

It doesn't matter how many times they lose, they will never stop.

Ever.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at April 06, 2015 02:26 PM (xSCb6)

247 Well, dang!

I picked the wrong year to go full SJW.

I think you will all agree that I was robbed by not receiving,at least, a Hugo nomination for my short-short story:

"The End of White People"

https://naturalfake.wordpress.com/2014/04/28/the-

end-of-white-people-or-an-ironical-progressive-short-

short-science-fiction-story-wherein-horrible-white-

people-get-their-comeuppance-and-stuff-in-an-ironic-

way-that-is-historically-significant/

A story that certainly matches, nay, exceeds the literary SJW heights attained by Hugo winner, "If you were a dino...".

I wuz robbed.

Posted by: naturalfake at April 06, 2015 02:27 PM (0cMkb)

248 Nerdz vs. Gheiz. Just wait until someone tosses a yaffa-block into the ring, or the "doping" scandal involving pez and redbull comes to light.

Posted by: Todd Bridges, first to go bad, last to go down at April 06, 2015 02:27 PM (+lX44)

249 "And you scamps think I have a potty mouth.

Posted by: alexthechick - Hi again everybody! at April 06, 2015 02:12 PM (mf5HN)"

Nor do I think you have a potty mouth. You are an eloquent speaker who's vocabulary is not constrained from any corner of the vast English vocabulary.

Posted by: Obnoxious A-Hole at April 06, 2015 02:28 PM (KDbAT)

250 I even like Eric Flint, and he is a hard core Union Activist, and card carrying communist, but he can write a decent story. And he is actually an American Patriot at heart.
Posted by: rd at April 06, 2015 02:25 PM (/u1nf)

-----------------------------------------

Now THAT's what I call rationalization.

Posted by: Soona at April 06, 2015 02:28 PM (/HX7u)

251
If it wasn't a problem until the SJW's started making a ruckus, I'm inclined to believe the SJWs are the problem.

Nevertheless all industries do the pat on the back self awards, but I have always thought they were kinda silly. What the market thinks via sales is probably the best indicator.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at April 06, 2015 02:28 PM (ODxAs)

252
It will cater to the cisgender, minority peoples who are sorely underrepresented in this society.
Posted by: MikeH at April 06, 2015 02:26 PM (zqzYV

Now if only the parks were served by mass transit.

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at April 06, 2015 02:28 PM (F2IAQ)

253 These SMOF/CHORFs care less about what is written than who wrote it, plain and simple.
Posted by: Grabthar's Hammer at April 06, 2015 02:06 PM (Edob3)

Smof? Chorf? I believe those are the sounds Jackie makes when she is totally against her will blowing frat rats.

Posted by: jwpaine at April 06, 2015 02:29 PM (a3NCX)

254 94 huerfano
You and a billion others. I have lost track of how many people hear about the Sad Puppies campaigns and say "I used to like SF and Fantasy, what the cfk happened?"

We're fighting back. We're fighting back and forcing them to fight us out in the open, in the light where everyone can see and hear them say they aren't "real fans" and their opinions don't count. Saving the Hugo awards would be a nice side-benefit, but the real war is to save SF.

Check out Human Wave books (many use that as a tag in their Amazon listings, so you can search for it.) Sarah Hoyt, me, and a host of others are a part of it. We want puppies to be happy, and stories to be fun.

Posted by: Sabrina Chase at April 06, 2015 02:29 PM (QCg/r)

255 that VIDEO!!!

Posted by: Mongerel at April 06, 2015 02:29 PM (YqWfw)

256 This reminds me of a book I read about a month ago; it was a freebie from the World Fantasy Convention when it was in San Diego. Mayan December. It was, basically, about how gullible people who believe in global warming are, but it wasn't meant that way. The ultimate lesson was that the way to deal with global warming was to literally tear the hearts out of disbelievers in a magical ritual to save the world. (Longer goodreads review in link.)

Posted by: Stephen Price Blair at April 06, 2015 02:29 PM (J0IP0)

257 252
It will cater to the cisgender, minority peoples who are sorely underrepresented in this society.
Posted by: MikeH at April 06, 2015 02:26 PM (zqzYV

Now if only the parks were served by mass transit.
Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at April 06, 2015 02:28 PM (F2IAQ)

Well, funny you should ask, there is a shovel-ready project to connect all National Parks by monorail

Posted by: MikeH at April 06, 2015 02:30 PM (DNTer)

258 Posted by: jwpaine at April 06, 2015 02:29 PM (a3NCX)

Secret Masters of Fandom / Cliquish, Holier-than-thou, Obnoxious, Reactionary, Fanatics.

Posted by: Grabthar's Hammer at April 06, 2015 02:30 PM (Edob3)

259 "243
What would happen if a Tarantula wasp laid it's eggs in a spider-worm?

Posted by: eleven at April 06, 2015 02:26 PM (63IvN)"

Wow, man. That would be like so meta. That might be the most meta thing ever. Have another hit on the bong.

Posted by: Obnoxious A-Hole at April 06, 2015 02:31 PM (KDbAT)

260 "The Anti-SJW contingent has struck back, figuring they should stack the nominations with writers more congruent with their own political outlook."

Not really the case. While not solidly SJW radical-leftwing whackos like the previous Hugo winners of recent years, the Sad Puppies slate is actually pretty politically diverse. Really, they're DE-politicizing the Hugos in favor of quality to get overlooked (read: ostracized) authors a look.

Posted by: The Deuce at April 06, 2015 02:31 PM (oDCMR)

261 I guess I should start sending out these two short stories to see if anyone will bite.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at April 06, 2015 02:31 PM (KB1Tk)

262 Well, funny you should ask, there is a shovel-ready project to connect all National Parks by monorail

Posted by: MikeH at April 06, 2015 02:30 PM (DNTer)

Disney already did that. OHHHH, NATIONAL Parks...never mind.

Posted by: wrg500 at April 06, 2015 02:32 PM (sgrzZ)

263 Is there anything that hasn't been politicized these days? It seems like even the quality time I spend alone on the crapper is now subject to peer review.

Posted by: Fritz at April 06, 2015 02:32 PM (UzPAd)

264 Fro the sidebar: "Rolling Stone's Rape Article Failed Because It Used Rightwing Tactics to Make a Leftist Point."

Outright lying and lazy factchecking are rightwing tactics?

Oh, you meant the battle between the Individual vs the collective, my mistake. Does that mean I am allowed to accuse the author of a ridiculous trumped up crime? After all she's just an individual, and they don't matter anymore in our now Borg-ian society. I'm just going by the left's rules...

Posted by: LizLem at April 06, 2015 02:32 PM (yRwC8)

265 I even like Eric Flint, and he is a hard core Union Activist, and card carrying communist, but he can write a decent story. And he is actually an American Patriot at heart.
Posted by: rd at April 06, 2015 02:25 PM (/u1nf)

Better to say that Flint, (IMHO) unlike almost all leftists, has actually studied history and learned some of the correct lessons from it--the fundamental lesson being that "power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely."

He's still a raging leftist labor unionist, but he doesn't seem to have chased the unicorn over the waterfall, so to speak.

Posted by: filbert at April 06, 2015 02:32 PM (7uT3E)

266 263 Is there anything that hasn't been politicized these days? It seems like even the quality time I spend alone on the crapper is now subject to peer review.
Posted by: Fritz at April 06, 2015 02:32 PM (UzPAd)

No. Every thing you could ever think of doing or potentially enjoying is now ruined by politics.

Posted by: Mandy P., lurking lurker who lurks at April 06, 2015 02:33 PM (KkVB6)

267 hard core Union Activist, and card carrying communist,... And he is actually an American Patriot at heart

One of these things is not like the other things
One of these things does not belong

Posted by: Insomniac at April 06, 2015 02:33 PM (2Ojst)

268 Would have said more about this stuff. Instead started reading HBP's First Cycle again. One of his best stories.

I hearby appoint myself "Successor-Contoller" of the Planet Terra!

Posted by: Luap Nor's last brain cell at April 06, 2015 02:33 PM (6yehy)

269 Red Shirts starts out fun and then quickly declines into a masturbatory work of fan fiction. The last third of the book is about how Scalzi deals with reception of the book online.

It's a fairly lighthearted idea turned into barely intellectual onanism.

Posted by: SGTYork at April 06, 2015 02:33 PM (/yNLK)

270 ...even the quality time I spend alone on the crapper is now subject to peer review.

***

For which definition of the word 'peer'?

Posted by: Seamus Muldoon, a solid man at April 06, 2015 02:33 PM (NeFrd)

271 Is there anything that hasn't been politicized these days? It seems like even the quality time I spend alone on the crapper is now subject to peer review.

Posted by: Fritz at April 06, 2015 02:32 PM (UzPAd)

Low flow toilets

Posted by: Suppressed Flasher at April 06, 2015 02:33 PM (X+nFp)

272 Don't be fooled by my ill-fitting corduroy pants. My tardis is much larger than it looks.

Posted by: Sci Fi Reader at April 06, 2015 02:33 PM (yxw0r)

273
What's next? The pornography (adult video) awards gonna be politicized?

Posted by: Soothsayer, Inc. -- The King Unwilling at April 06, 2015 02:34 PM (UmkRj)

274 "263 Is there anything that hasn't been politicized these days? It seems like even the quality time I spend alone on the crapper is now subject to peer review.
"

In California are you? All the talk of "too long showers" makes me want to install an even bigger tub in our master bath.

Posted by: SJW at April 06, 2015 02:34 PM (0xXrg)

275 @Grabthar's Hammer

Thanks, I could not figure out what SMOF meant.

Posted by: Penfold at April 06, 2015 02:35 PM (Fbt5B)

276 Ace: One article I'd like to see written is a more rigorous recapitulation of the "CHORFs" abuse over the years

I haven't found it again, but after -last- year's awards, there were celebrations with "100% female! Victory! Let's do it again!" motifs. The "Prove that the CHORFs are doing irritating things" was a sort of ongoing process as part of Sad Puppies 1 and Sad Puppies 2. The public promises to "avoid reading -any- males for a year!" would also seem like a problematic way for a Hugo voter to proceed.

The first two links below highlight various shenanigans, the other links are just recap for people who have any interest.

Sarah Hoyt on Scarlet Letter of non-Leftism http://tinyurl.com/my3z6n5

Brad Torgerson on the Fear Factor http://tinyurl.com/knu7wka

Brad Torgerson Recommendations Announced: http://tinyurl.com/qdvw83t
Brad Torgerson March of the Strawmen (Defense) http://tinyurl.com/ll5yzcx
Brad Torgerson Nail House (defense 2) http://tinyurl.com/mgfkt7y

Posted by: Alan at April 06, 2015 02:35 PM (uq4RW)

277
Well, funny you should ask, there is a shovel-ready project to connect all National Parks by monorail
Posted by: MikeH at April 06, 2015 02:30 PM (DNTer)

Good, they can run pipelines under the rails, kill 2 birds with one stone.

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at April 06, 2015 02:35 PM (F2IAQ)

278 My tardis is much larger than it looks.

Posted by: Sci Fi Reader at April 06, 2015 02:33 PM (yxw0r)

If I had a dime for every time I heard that.

Posted by: Sandra Fluke at April 06, 2015 02:35 PM (sgrzZ)

279 Off SJW sock

Posted by: Lauren at April 06, 2015 02:35 PM (0xXrg)

280 273
What's next? The pornography (adult video) awards gonna be politicized?
Posted by: Soothsayer, Inc. -- The King Unwilling at April 06, 2015 02:34 PM (UmkRj)

Best supporting actor? A white guy, right?

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at April 06, 2015 02:35 PM (F2IAQ)

281 273 Posted by: Soothsayer, Inc. -- The King Unwilling at April 06, 2015 02:34 PM (UmkRj)

Uh....

AVN is politicized... admittedly there are not a lot of SoCons in porn but the Libertarian chicks get froze out for the SJWs in the Obama era...

How you can be a horizontal recreational specialist and Fenymyst escapes me, but it is there.

Posted by: Sven S Blade a.k.a. El Assassin@sven10077 at April 06, 2015 02:35 PM (/4AZU)

282 192
I tried to read a Ben Bova book but I had to put it down cause dick wouldn't stop with the "back when Global Warming destroyed the Earf" shit.

Douche. It was shaping up to be a pretty damn good yarn too. Hated putting it down.

I have a rule nowadays, where if a book mentions global warming, I tear it in half and bin it. Not only am I not going to read it, but I'll make sure that no else will be able to poison their minds with it at the second-hand book store.

I got hounded off Scalzi's site as a 'racist', because I had the temerity to hold the opinion that not every single science fiction story written since the beginning of time would be improved by the injection of racial tension. I used "The Cold Equations" as an example.

Posted by: West at April 06, 2015 02:36 PM (1Rgee)

283 What's next? The pornography (adult video) awards gonna be politicized?
Posted by: Soothsayer, Inc. -- The King Unwilling at April 06, 2015 02:34 PM (UmkRj)

And then they came for the condom-free porn flicks, but I . . .

Posted by: filbert at April 06, 2015 02:36 PM (7uT3E)

284 Left is already poring over the donations to find ppl they can harass and threaten. Cause they are nazis.

Julie Rei Goldstein @JulieRei
Went through top 10K donations to the Memories Pizza GoFundMe promoted by @DLoesch. All Anonymous. It's a PR stunt and not a public outcry.

Posted by: Costanza Defense at April 06, 2015 02:36 PM (ZPrif)

285 Is there anything that hasn't been politicized these days? It seems like even the quality time I spend alone on the crapper is now subject to peer review.

We see you're wiping back to front. We insist on front to back.

Posted by: Social Justice Overlord at April 06, 2015 02:36 PM (JtwS4)

286 I was at a Grateful Dead show in Cincinnati in '86 a short time later Jerry almost checked out due to a diabetic coma.

Posted by: ghost of hallelujah at April 06, 2015 02:36 PM (7RXcs)

287
>>Ever since that play came out, it has been a standard trope to rewrite every classic story from the "other" perspective.

Wide Sargasso Sea being another example. I had to read it in college.

Posted by: Lea at April 06, 2015 02:36 PM (lIU4e)

288 "Social Justice Terrorist"

Can I stick with Blithering Commie FuckWit or is it an AoSHQ style guide ruling?

Posted by: DaveA at April 06, 2015 02:36 PM (DL2i+)

289 " horizontal recreational specialist "

Heh.

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at April 06, 2015 02:37 PM (LA7Cm)

290 Fellow moron Epobirs has actually *made* Hugo trophys (1996). Found out yesterday in the book thread.

I am still in a fit of pure green geek envy.

Posted by: Grabthar's Hammer at April 06, 2015 02:37 PM (Edob3)

291 We see you're wiping back to front. We insist on front to back.
Posted by: Social Justice Overlord at April 06, 2015 02:36 PM (JtwS4)

If you're chick, you better be wiping front to back...

Posted by: Insomniac at April 06, 2015 02:38 PM (2Ojst)

292
If I had a dime for every time I heard that.

Posted by: Sandra Fluke at April 06, 2015 02:35 PM (sgrzZ)

In fairness, some feats are unattainable.

Posted by: Hot Dog in a Hallway at April 06, 2015 02:38 PM (yxw0r)

293 Obama getting the peace prize pretty much ended any worth that award had.

Posted by: Berserker-Dragonheads Division at April 06, 2015 02:09 PM (FMbng)

Well, it wasn't worth a damn even before that if Arafat was "awarded" one...

Posted by: Tex Lovera at April 06, 2015 02:38 PM (wtvvX)

294 >>> And you scamps think I have a potty mouth.

If your colorful interpretation of the English language, complete with spirit fingers, is wrong, do we really want to be right?

Posted by: LizLem at April 06, 2015 02:38 PM (yRwC8)

295 Fro the sidebar: "Rolling Stone's Rape Article Failed Because It Used Rightwing Tactics to Make a Leftist Point."

TNR is a less respectable version of Buzzfeed, without the handy Listicles.

Posted by: toby928(C) at April 06, 2015 02:38 PM (rwI+c)

296 ". It's a PR stunt and not a public outcry."

What makes her say that?

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at April 06, 2015 02:38 PM (LA7Cm)

297 What's next? The pornography (adult video) awards gonna be politicized?
Posted by: Soothsayer, Inc. -- The King Unwilling at April 06, 2015 02:34 PM (UmkRj)

------------------------------------------

Oil based vs. earth-friendly synthetic lube.

Posted by: Soona at April 06, 2015 02:38 PM (/HX7u)

298 "I got hounded off Scalzi's site as a 'racist', because I had the temerity to hold the opinion that not every single science fiction story written since the beginning of time would be improved by the injection of racial tension. I used "The Cold Equations" as an example. "

Oh yes, race. Such an interesting subject that hadn't been beaten into the ground by 1001 bad writers every year. We definitely need more of that!

Posted by: Lauren at April 06, 2015 02:38 PM (0xXrg)

299
Wide Sargasso Sea being another example. I had to read it in college.

Moby Dick's perspective?

Posted by: eleven at April 06, 2015 02:39 PM (63IvN)

300 296 ". It's a PR stunt and not a public outcry."

What makes her say that?
Posted by: Ricardo Kill at April 06, 2015 02:38 PM (LA7Cm)

Because they have to do everything they can to minimize and delegitimize what actually happened.

Posted by: Insomniac at April 06, 2015 02:39 PM (2Ojst)

301 Well, it wasn't worth a damn even before that if Arafat was "awarded" one...

Posted by: Tex Lovera at April 06, 2015 02:38 PM (wtvvX)

Or Carter

Posted by: wrg500 at April 06, 2015 02:39 PM (sgrzZ)

302
Heh. Back when I and the (late, lamented) BFF were running a fandom forum, we had a Make An Acronym contest. Put up an acronym, everyone else had to guess what it was.

And you scamps think I have a potty mouth.

Posted by: alexthechick - Hi again everybody! at April 06, 2015 02:12 PM (mf5HN)

In one of his books on screenwriting, William Goldman talked about his Army service back in the 50s. He was stuffed into an office and was responsible for coming up with Army acronyms. He stated that his proudest moment was when he came up with an acronym that had MORE letters than the military term he was supposedly trying to condense.

It's also the first time one of his "works" was cited in the NY Times.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at April 06, 2015 02:39 PM (SpnVI)

303 >>Well, funny you should ask, there is a shovel-ready project to connect all National Parks by monorail
Please tell me you're kidding.
* * *
Posted by: Alan at April 06, 2015 02:35 PM (uq4RW)
Thanks for the links!

Posted by: Lizzy at April 06, 2015 02:40 PM (cXQJ2)

304 Fro the sidebar: "Rolling Stone's Rape Article Failed Because It Used Rightwing Tactics to Make a Leftist Point."

My eyes about rolled out of my head at that. I don't think I made it 1/3 through before I had to stop.

It *might* be acceptable if they showed any actual examples of the "Rightwing" just making shit up, or deliberately not fact-checking something that was "too good to be true." But, since we know that we'd better have all our ducks in a row, there aren't any.

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - TrueCon at April 06, 2015 02:40 PM (kff5f)

305 284 Left is already poring over the donations to find ppl they can harass and threaten. Cause they are nazis.

Julie Rei Goldstein @JulieRei
Went through top 10K donations to the Memories Pizza GoFundMe promoted by @DLoesch. All Anonymous. It's a PR stunt and not a public outcry.
Posted by: Costanza Defense at April 06, 2015 02:36 PM (ZPrif)

They're just pissed because they can't stalk those people. Which is why people donated anonymously to begin with.

Posted by: Mandy P., lurking lurker who lurks at April 06, 2015 02:40 PM (KkVB6)

306 Oh yes, race. Such an interesting subject that hadn't been beaten into the ground by 1001 bad writers every year. We definitely need more of that!
Posted by: Lauren at April 06, 2015 02:38 PM (0xXrg)

The only saving grace is that race is just slightly less controversial than medieval arrow-firing ranged weapons.

Posted by: filbert at April 06, 2015 02:40 PM (7uT3E)

307 "Because they have to do everything they can to minimize and delegitimize what actually happened. "

Understand that but I don't understand how she derives that by looking at a sample of the donations?

Maybe it's obvious but I don't get it.

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at April 06, 2015 02:40 PM (LA7Cm)

308 Wide Sargasso Sea being another example. I had to read it in college.

What's that? Lena Dunham's autobiography?

Posted by: Tex Lovera at April 06, 2015 02:41 PM (wtvvX)

309 What's next? The pornography (adult video) awards gonna be politicized?

Posted by: Soothsayer, Inc. -- The King Unwilling at April 06, 2015 02:34 PM (UmkRj)

All adult videos are now required to have the crucial scene of hotness where all parties sign consensual agreement forms before getting down to business...so intense!

*fans self*

Posted by: Feminist Scolds at April 06, 2015 02:41 PM (yRwC8)

310 Because they have to do everything they can to minimize and delegitimize what actually happened.

Nearly a million bucks. Res ipsa loquitur.

Posted by: toby928(C) at April 06, 2015 02:41 PM (rwI+c)

311 The only saving grace is that race is just slightly less controversial than medieval arrow-firing ranged weapons.

You mean the great long bow/cross bow debate?

Posted by: wrg500 at April 06, 2015 02:41 PM (sgrzZ)

312 OT but sweet, sweet Schadenfreude.

Mitt Romney's brackets come in at 99.98th percentile. The smartest president in the history of forever comes in at 40th percentile.

Posted by: The Great White Snark at April 06, 2015 02:42 PM (XUKZU)

313 Here's a question - what would be Moron Friendly Fiction?

Booze?
Floozies?
Creative invective?
Interpretive rage dance?
Strange blue chicks?

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at April 06, 2015 02:42 PM (KB1Tk)

314 What's next? The pornography (adult video) awards gonna be politicized?

The ever-popular "blacks on blondes" shorts will include twice as many wymmins & persuns of colour as before.

Posted by: Snoodling World Champ 1997 at April 06, 2015 02:42 PM (Q819Q)

315 >>Oh yes, race. Such an interesting subject that hadn't been beaten into the ground by 1001 bad writers every year. We definitely need more of that!

It's like they want to make sure that the usual forms of escapism - fiction, movies, sports- no longer allow you to escape.

Posted by: Lizzy at April 06, 2015 02:42 PM (cXQJ2)

316 313 Here's a question - what would be Moron Friendly Fiction?

Booze?
Floozies?
Creative invective?
Interpretive rage dance?
Strange blue chicks?
Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at April 06, 2015 02:42 PM (KB1Tk)

Yes.

Posted by: Insomniac at April 06, 2015 02:42 PM (2Ojst)

317 By the way has anyone seen Thomas Friedman's tongue since he lost it up Fredo's ass?

Posted by: Nevergiveup at April 06, 2015 02:42 PM (rDqRv)

318 >>>They're just pissed because they can't stalk those people------

Nice thing about the Scott Walker Recall Petition is that it is public and has been saved for eternity. I've used it today to rule out people who are running for office. Fuck 'em Bucky

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at April 06, 2015 02:43 PM (F2IAQ)

319 "Strange blue chicks? "

Always been partial to green myself.

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at April 06, 2015 02:43 PM (LA7Cm)

320 314 What's next? The pornography (adult video) awards gonna be politicized?

The ever-popular "blacks on blondes" shorts will include twice as many wymmins & persuns of colour as before.
Posted by: Snoodling World Champ 1997 at April 06, 2015 02:42 PM (Q819Q)

Male stars who won't do ghey pr0n will get protested as homophobes.

Posted by: Insomniac at April 06, 2015 02:43 PM (2Ojst)

321 My eyes about rolled out of my head at that. I don't think I made it 1/3 through before I had to stop.

^^^^^^

Honestly, I saw that in the sidebar, rolled my eyes, and didn't even bother to click the link. If that's the author's conclusion then it's not worth my time to bother reading through it.

Posted by: Mandy P., lurking lurker who lurks at April 06, 2015 02:43 PM (KkVB6)

322 "Went through top 10K donations to the Memories Pizza GoFundMe promoted by @DLoesch. All Anonymous. It's a PR stunt and not a public outcry. "

That makes me angry mostly because it's an assault on logic. Their evidence does not support their conclusion in any way. It is unrelated. Logic. How does it work?

Posted by: Lauren at April 06, 2015 02:43 PM (0xXrg)

323 Understand that but I don't understand how she derives that by looking at a sample of the donations?

Maybe it's obvious but I don't get it.
Posted by: Ricardo Kill at April 06, 2015 02:40 PM (LA7Cm)

Because the Koch brothers are behind all which is sad and evil in the world, don't cha know.

Therefore any anonymous donor must, therefore, logically, have used Koch money to illegally fund fundraising.

This makes perfect, complete, obvious sense, you see.

Posted by: filbert at April 06, 2015 02:43 PM (7uT3E)

324 >Left is already poring over the donations to find ppl they can harass and threaten. Cause they are nazis.

>Julie Rei Goldstein @JulieRei
>Goldstein

The ironing!

Posted by: kartoffel at April 06, 2015 02:43 PM (sGRH7)

325 One of these things is not like the other things
One of these things does not belong

Posted by: Insomniac at April 06, 2015 02:33 PM (2Ojst)

read Eric Flint's novel 1632.

His heroes are the UMW. But they actually believe in American Exceptionalism, and the old, discarded motto, Truth, Justice, and the American Way.

BTW, It is a free e-book at Baen free libraries...
link in name

Posted by: rd at April 06, 2015 02:44 PM (/u1nf)

326 Julie Rei Goldstein @JulieRei

Went through top 10K donations to the Memories Pizza GoFundMe
promoted by @DLoesch. All Anonymous. It's a PR stunt and not a public
outcry.

Posted by: Costanza Defense at April 06, 2015 02:36 PM (ZPrif)

They're just pissed because they can't stalk those people. Which is why people donated anonymously to begin with. Posted by: Mandy P., lurking lurker who lurks at April 06, 2015 02:40 PM (KkVB6)

They're just ticked that conservatives/freedom loving people learned the correct lesson from the Mozilla brouhaha: keep your name off of anything, it WILL be used against you someday.

Posted by: LizLem at April 06, 2015 02:44 PM (yRwC8)

327 Had to explain to a twerp on FB that fascism is of the Left, not the Right. Got called a weakling. WTF?? Like I said. ..twerp.

Posted by: jmel at April 06, 2015 02:44 PM (HowRR)

328 You mean the great long bow/cross bow debate?
Posted by: wrg500 at April 06, 2015 02:41 PM (sgrzZ)

I was striving to be non-controversial and not use trigger words.

Posted by: filbert at April 06, 2015 02:44 PM (7uT3E)

329 These CHORF shits don't know the fist thing about science fiction.

Posted by: Isaac Asimov at April 06, 2015 02:44 PM (cIoI4)

330 "
Understand that but I don't understand how she derives that by looking at a sample of the donations?

Maybe it's obvious but I don't get it."

Because, feelings.

Posted by: Lauren at April 06, 2015 02:45 PM (0xXrg)

331 Vox Days recent post on Bloc Voting has some numbers showing the behind the scenes slate voting of the past.

http://goo.gl/rK0DuM
http://voxday.blogspot.com/2015/04/on-bloc-voting.html

Posted by: MC DuQuesne at April 06, 2015 02:45 PM (LbE7d)

332 "Therefore any anonymous donor must, therefore, logically, have used Koch money to illegally fund fundraising. "

Ah. How did I not see that obvious left-think.

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at April 06, 2015 02:45 PM (LA7Cm)

333 Sad Puppies should just start the Gernsback Awards and be done with it.

Posted by: Cruzinator at April 06, 2015 02:45 PM (sIhFA)

334
Julie Rei Goldstein @JulieRei

Went through top 10K donations to the Memories Pizza GoFundMe
promoted by @DLoesch. All Anonymous. It's a PR stunt and not a public
outcry.

Again--

THEY WANT PEOPLE TO DESTROY.

They get very angry when they are denied someone to destroy.

Posted by: Zap Rowsdower at April 06, 2015 02:45 PM (oVJmc)

335
Understand that but I don't understand how she derives that by looking at a sample of the donations?

Maybe it's obvious but I don't get it.
Posted by: Ricardo Kill at April 06, 2015 02:40 PM (LA7Cm)

I think she reached the conclusion and then went looking for a way to support it, no matter how silly. I think she's suggesting that because the vast majority of the donations were submitted anonymously that they weren't really donated by thousands of individuals, Dana Loesch and a few of her friends got together and made up all these individual donations.

Posted by: Insomniac at April 06, 2015 02:46 PM (2Ojst)

336
Here's a question - what would be Moron Friendly Fiction?

Booze?
Floozies?
Creative invective?
Interpretive rage dance?
Strange blue chicks?

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at April 06, 2015 02:42 PM (KB1Tk)

Ace still hasn't published Saffron: Intergalactic Space Whore.

The bastard.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at April 06, 2015 02:46 PM (SpnVI)

337 Jaw Dropper Obama On GOP Letter To Iran Democrats Would Never Have Tried To Undermine Bush

Weasel Zippers

Posted by: Nevergiveup at April 06, 2015 02:46 PM (rDqRv)

338 I'm thinking about writing a short story where the central plot is about a white race of former slaves still being oppressed by their brown-skinned overlords, even though their technically free now. I think it will be a really thought provoking "Whoa!" type reality inversion.

Posted by: toby928(C) ponders at April 06, 2015 02:46 PM (rwI+c)

339 That makes me angry mostly because it's an assault on logic. Their evidence does not support their conclusion in any way. It is unrelated. Logic. How does it work?

Posted by: Lauren at April 06, 2015 02:43 PM (0xXrg)

It's not about logic. Logic is about following evidence where it leads, and - when it leads somewhere unexpected - verifying the premises on which you based your conclusions.

The SJWs, however, are all about asserting their conclusions, and then shoehorning the evidence to fit.

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - TrueCon at April 06, 2015 02:46 PM (kff5f)

340 Here's a question - what would be Moron Friendly Fiction?

Booze?
Floozies?
Creative invective?
Interpretive rage dance?
Strange blue chicks?

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at April 06, 2015 02:42 PM (KB1Tk)

AHEM

Posted by: Moron impatiently waiting for "Saffron: Intergalactic Space Whore" at April 06, 2015 02:46 PM (yRwC8)

341 Barack Obama will require you to work. He is going to demand that you shed your cynicism. That you put down your divisions. That you come out of your isolation, that you move out of your comfort zones. That you push yourselves to be better. And that you engage. Barack will never allow you to go back to your lives as usual, uninvolved, uninformed.

Posted by: Michelle Obama, SF Fan at April 06, 2015 02:47 PM (0cMkb)

342 nood

Posted by: Suppressed Flasher at April 06, 2015 02:47 PM (X+nFp)

343 Secret Masters of Fandom / Cliquish, Holier-than-thou, Obnoxious, Reactionary, Fanatics.
Posted by: Grabthar's Hammer at April 06, 2015 02:30 PM (Edob3)

Well, that woulda been my second guess.

Posted by: jwpaine at April 06, 2015 02:47 PM (a3NCX)

344
I cannot say when I last read SF, but the first "Uplift War" series of Gregory Brin comes to mind and that was at least a decade and a half ago.

However, like all things literary, musical or cinematic offered for sale on sites like Amazon et al., I read the reviews that rate an item lower before I read reviews with higher ratings. Why? Because the authors of the reviews that award lower marks go straight for the throat: "This magnum opus sucked and here's why it sucked..."

Having briefly glanced over excerpts from Hugo winners of the inmediate past that were deemed worthy by the now butt hurt SJW crowd, I can honestly say, "They sucked and Ghey sucked because they lacked a coherent plot and reason for even haven been written in the first place." IOW, they are not unlike the never ending series of Farmer's "Riverworld" stories - the authors ought to have been required to file environmental impact statements to justify killing trees for their publication.

Posted by: Krebs v Carnot: Epic Battle of the Cycling Stars(TM) at April 06, 2015 02:47 PM (95CzI)

345 Intergalactic space whore sounds so much worse than just regular whore.

Posted by: eleven at April 06, 2015 02:47 PM (63IvN)

346 nood
Posted by: Suppressed Flasher at April 06, 2015 02:47 PM (X+nFp)

This combination of comment and nickname has . . . issues . . .

Posted by: filbert at April 06, 2015 02:48 PM (7uT3E)

347
You mean the great long bow/cross bow debate?
Posted by: wrg500 at April 06, 2015 02:41 PM (sgrzZ)

I was striving to be non-controversial and not use trigger words.

Posted by: filbert at April 06, 2015 02:44 PM (7uT3E)

Could be worse. Could have mentioned Pollock vs Cod.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at April 06, 2015 02:48 PM (SpnVI)

348 Male stars who won't do ghey pr0n will get protested as homophobes.

Now, from what I've heard (not seen), there ain't no such thing. I don't really feel up to doing a ton of in-depth research, though.

Posted by: Snoodling World Champ 1997 at April 06, 2015 02:48 PM (Q819Q)

349 "I think she reached the conclusion and then went looking for a way to support it, no matter how silly. I think she's suggesting that because the vast majority of the donations were submitted anonymously that they weren't really donated by thousands of individuals, Dana Loesch and a few of her friends got together and made up all these individual donations."

These imbeciles don't understand the basics of strengthening and weakening an argument. They're idiots who think that any random bit of information is Obviously Most Relevent.

It would be fun to give them the arguments section of the LSAT or GMAT. Oh wait, they probably already took those tests and scored badly, hence journalism.

Posted by: Lauren at April 06, 2015 02:48 PM (0xXrg)

350 Krebs, the Uplift trilogies were written by David Brin. I think you just Hadron collided him with Gregory Benford.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at April 06, 2015 02:50 PM (KB1Tk)

351 I think she's suggesting that because the vast majority of the
donations were submitted anonymously that they weren't really donated by
thousands of individuals, Dana Loesch and a few of her friends got
together and made up all these individual donations.

They do know that 50 million people vote the opposite way that they do, don't they? The possibility a few thousand of those contributed really isn't that much of a stretch.

They cling to the belief that everyone thinks like they do except for a handful of paid enemies.

Posted by: Zap Rowsdower at April 06, 2015 02:50 PM (oVJmc)

352 Ace?

Want evidence of Hugo bias?

David Weber? go look for his Hugos.

He is the author of the Honor Harrington series, which spans.... what 30+ books? Most best sellers?

HUGELY popular.

Dresden Files??? hell, they even made it a TV series... no Hugo for that author...

The Sci Fi Awards have been like the Oscars... what is popular, what is READ... is not important... what won was the correct outlook.... the right message...

Glad to see the Peons taking back some control.

Posted by: BB Wolf at April 06, 2015 02:51 PM (qh617)

353 Could be worse. Could have mentioned Pollock vs Cod.
Posted by: IllTemperedCur at April 06, 2015 02:48 PM (SpnVI)

Fishy.

Posted by: filbert at April 06, 2015 02:51 PM (7uT3E)

354 Just a thank you to upthread who recommended Dave Freer's blog, "madgeniusclub." Fascinating and fun. Great snark about the SP slates reception.

Posted by: mustbequantum at April 06, 2015 02:52 PM (MIKMs)

355 We are not fond of others using our tactics against us. We will haz teh butt hurt.

Posted by: SJW MOB at April 06, 2015 02:53 PM (WGm5T)

356 You mean the great long bow/cross bow debate?
Posted by: wrg500 at April 06, 2015 02:41 PM (sgrzZ)

I was striving to be non-controversial and not use trigger words.

Posted by: filbert at April 06, 2015 02:44 PM (7uT3E)

Only Crossbows have triggers... ergo, the very word Trigger shows your bias, and is thus... a trigger word...

Posted by: BB Wolf at April 06, 2015 02:53 PM (qh617)

357 Had to explain to a twerp on FB that fascism is of the Left, not the Right. Got called a weakling. WTF??

Well, denigrating their enemies as weak is a tactic of fascists.

Posted by: Stephen Price Blair at April 06, 2015 02:56 PM (J0IP0)

358 Only Crossbows have triggers... ergo, the very word Trigger shows your bias, and is thus... a trigger word...
Posted by: BB Wolf at April 06, 2015 02:53 PM (qh617)

You're pulling my bow

Posted by: MikeH at April 06, 2015 02:56 PM (DNTer)

359 Only Crossbows have triggers... ergo, the very word Trigger shows your bias, and is thus... a trigger word...
Posted by: BB Wolf at April 06, 2015 02:53 PM (qh617)

Is it not true that in the instance of a longbow, the trigger is in fact the human hand?

Seems like you're the one with the biased view, my friend . . . being machinist in your narrow bigoted view of triggers here.

Posted by: filbert at April 06, 2015 02:57 PM (7uT3E)

360 Larry Correia just responded "Sure" to Ace's tweeted invitation to the podcast.

We'll see if it happens . . .

Posted by: filbert at April 06, 2015 02:59 PM (7uT3E)

361 "They are motivated by the hate they ascribe to us.

Posted by: Lauren at April 06, 2015 01:49 PM (0xXrg)"

Accuse others of what you are doing.

Posted by: Karl Marx at April 06, 2015 03:02 PM (WGm5T)

362 'Red Shirts' isn't bad but is very inside baseball. If you wanted to write something to appeal to the tiny group of fannish types who vote on the Hugos, this is the book you'd write.

But having it get the top award is like an entry from the Scary Movie franchise getting Best Picture, or Al Yankovic doing a double-album parody of Tommy and sweeping the Grammys.

Posted by: Epobirs at April 06, 2015 03:02 PM (IdCqF)

363 360
Larry Correia just responded "Sure" to Ace's tweeted invitation to the podcast.
We'll see if it happens . . . Posted by: filbert at April 06, 2015 02:59 PM (7uT3E)

*grins like a fool at the prospect*

Posted by: LizLem at April 06, 2015 03:08 PM (yRwC8)

364
From Larry's newest post:
"Here is an interesting one for you moderates, SMOFs, and fence sitters to ponder on. Why is it that our own words and actions aren't to be believed, but anything the other side says about us, no matter how outlandish, is to be accepted?

Over the years I've done Sad Puppies, do you know how many fannish blogs, fanzines, and podcasts interviewed me, the guy who started the campaign, about the goals of Sad Puppies?

None.

I can't think of single one. You'd think with the most controversial thing to happen to the Hugos in forever, somebody would actually want to sit down and interview us and get our side of the story, but nada, zip. Sure, lots of people wrote about it, but it was pretty obvious these fannish journalists didn't read what I actually wrote, and instead they critiqued Straw Larry, or they quoted other bloggers quoting Straw Larry."

Let Ace be the first!

Posted by: LizLem at April 06, 2015 03:18 PM (yRwC8)

365 What I read and spend money on has ZERO to do with awards, real or contrived.

Can you see Heinlein getting ANY awards today.

Jean Rasczak: All right, let's sum up. This year we explored the failure of democracy. How our social scientists brought our world to the brink of chaos. We talked about the veterans, how they took control and established the stability that has lasted for generations since. You know these facts, but have I taught you anything of value this year?
[to a student]
Jean Rasczak: You. Why are only citizens allowed to vote?
Student: It's a reward. Something the federation gives you for doing federal service.
Jean Rasczak: No. Something given has no value. When you vote, you are exercising political authority, you're using force. And force my friends is violence. The supreme authority from which all other authorities are derived.

Posted by: joe dagostino at April 06, 2015 03:19 PM (5vRRq)

366 Scalzi's novels that I have read (about 4) have been meh. Corriea's have been generally good, including one that had a scene where there was a zeppelin on fire with a teleporting okie gal with a shotgun shooting ninjas while a samauri and a private eye beat each other up. In the sky. In the 1930's.

The one scene I remember of Scalzi's was a waiting room filled with bored, dying old leftists signing up to fight aliens.

And one time they went to a bar.

See, the SJW's tend to have boring stories. Not all, and some authors they like such as Lois McMaster Bujold are incredible - but they like her for politics, not for great storytelling.

Plus, Scalzi is an arrogant, leftist who hates anyone who disagrees with him and insults people with made-up bullshit when you do. Recommend women learn to shoot and carry concealed? According to Scalzi, you're a supporter of rape. He acts like a lunatic, has no ability to disagree calmly, and writes boring stories with hamfisted "twists" that preach dirtbag hippy leftism with a dash of authoritarianism.

Posted by: Inspector Cussword at April 06, 2015 03:31 PM (S8V5R)

367 CHORFS? We prefer to be called Cismale Gendernormative Fascists, thank you very much.

Posted by: IHeartStatism at April 06, 2015 03:31 PM (rxn8B)

368 Right on Joe. This is such inside baseball stuff, important to the participants, I suppose, but not to me. Science Fiction, and historical fiction, are my go-to fiction genres. I've read a lot of it in the past 40 years and while some was probably by award winners, that particular characteristic has never been a factor in what I decided to read.

Posted by: steve walsh at April 06, 2015 03:32 PM (nU8lz)

369 Posted by: alexthechick - Hi again everybody! at April 06, 2015 01:33 PM (mf5HN)

There is essentially no money in WorldCon. As a matter of fact, WorldCon has been dying for years. The reasons for that don't have anything to do with DragonCon (although DragonCon is the main beneficiary of the WorldCon's slow decline) but have everything to do with what WorldCon is and how it is organized.

Back before the 1970's or so, the WorldCon was largely a big US convention. It moved from place to place, but people noticed that it wasn't getting out of the USA, at least not very often, so they made some changes that caused it to be out of North America a lot more. That was so that the "World" would not be a lie. This has had the effect of making the WorldCon an excuse for the idle, or not so idle, rich to travel to exotic locales. The convention itself is almost an afterthought. It's a very expensive proposition to travel to most years, and just expensive the rest of the time. (My hotel room for San Antonio came out to around $800. And the family membership was like $250.)

The problem is that WorldCon had largely been the place where editors and authors would meet. Most of the editors are based in New York City, and most of the authors aren't what you'd call rich, whether idle or not, and so overseas travel just isn't happening. That was one reason why NASFic was created, but it's just easier to go to Atlanta every year than to try to figure out why you'd want to go to visit, say, Spokane. Or Detroit.

The other problem is due to the fact that, fiscally, WorldCon is a new entity every time. This wouldn't appear to be a problem, but it means that you can't build up any cash reserves to deal with stuff that comes up. While Chicago and Reno and San Antonio ran large surpluses, the folks behind Tokyo are still paying off their debts, and London lost quite a bit of money despite being the most well-attended WorldCon in a long time.

The reasons for the financial uncertainty have to do with the peculiarities of putting on a convention. Contracts for the function space, the hotels, the decorators, caterers, tech equipment, etc. must be signed and payments committed to weeks before the convention, but you won't have a good idea what your income will look like until the doors open and people start coming in and paying for stuff. They're doing these pass-along funds that are intended to offset this somewhat, but it doesn't work very well.

So, the budgeting folks, including mostly the executive subcommittee the finance subcommitte and Ben Yalow, lose a bit of their hair every year and hope things work out. Usually it does.

I've been steeped in this stuff because I serve on the board of directors of the parent organization of the group that put on a recent WorldCon. It's been interesting doing the paperwork needed to get it all done, and to hear the arguments over where the money is coming from and where it's going to go, but the money is far from certain.

Oh, and if there's any doubt that there is a large SJW influence in WorldCon, I will tell this story. There is a mailing list called SMOFS primarily for people who run WorldCons, but is also useful for people who run other conventions. There is also a fellow who calls himself "Filthy Pierre" who for years has brought a thing called a "Voodoo Message Board" to every WorldCon. After the 2013 WorldCon, there was a huge (1500 messages or so in a week or so) firestorm on SMOFS about the use of the word "Voodoo" because a Voodou practitioner might be offended by it.

That's the sort of people who put this thing on, and who nominate and vote for the Hugos.

Posted by: A SMOF at April 06, 2015 04:03 PM (VC56G)

370 At last. I hope the Science Fiction community, has begun its long overdue reformation.

I used to hang out at Trek Today/TrekBBS and one of the things that was clear, if you were not of the hive mind on social issues (or even thoughts regarding historical events) you were deemed the wrong sort of fan.

Of course, a great deal of that had to do with Margaret Wander Bonanno... a resident Trek author. Who spent all of her time in the political forum.

Posted by: Rodney C. Johnson at April 06, 2015 04:09 PM (M2oVh)

371 109
"Several of the things that got listed on the slate were books which others would have nominated anyway."

Exactly. Jim Butcher's Skin Game is a prime example. It's the 15th
(!!!!!) Dresden Files book and he's NEVER gotten a nomination. Travesty.

Yes, Yes and Yes. I was shocked to see that he had not won for any of the last four Dresden books, but flabbergasted over the fact that he had never been nominated until this year.

Posted by: Charlotte at April 06, 2015 04:31 PM (VRwlD)

372 Hey A SMOF, thank you for your efforts.

Posted by: Alan at April 06, 2015 04:33 PM (uq4RW)

373 #19 I've enjoyed several of Scalzi's books. Of course it helped that I didn't know he was such a dick IRL.

I really liked Scalzi's 'Old Man' series. I've read and enjoyed them several times. But after 'Red Shirts', 'Fuzzy' and 'Human Division', which I've never felt the inclination to re-read, I've stopped looking for his work.

I'll still re-read H. Beam Piper, but not John Scalzi, except for the Old Man series. That was really good.

Posted by: Jack at April 06, 2015 04:38 PM (53CCM)

374 Hope not, I want to sign up next year. If the Sad Puppies really make a
difference, maybe will get a huge stack of books worth reading, the ones
they send you so that you can vote.

The first vote was for the nominees. There will be a second vote for the winners in each category. You can still sign up as a voter. It costs $40 and you receive most or all of the works nominated in your voting packet. All the Sad Puppies request is that you actually read the books and vote for the best works leaving out politics entirely.

Posted by: Emerson Peabody at April 06, 2015 04:53 PM (tvcoY)

375 Sad Puppy Barbarians show What's Best In Life.

Posted by: sulla at April 06, 2015 05:20 PM (0GucZ)

376 I don't know if it's been mentioned already, but SJW dhimmi (white males who apparently think the feministas will castrate them last if they genuflect before them) Steve Davidson at Amazing Stories is having a bit of a cry over his loss: http://bit.ly/1PdoIXn

Such a pity I'm out of popcorn.

Posted by: Saber Alter at April 06, 2015 06:47 PM (eawKK)

377 #369, I think it was Mad Mike Williamson who said we can get more people in one of the large panel rooms at DragonCon than actually show up to the average Worldcon. Plus we have much better parties.

Posted by: SGT Dan's Cat at April 06, 2015 06:52 PM (/yNjy)

378 Entertainment Weekly's "smart take" on this.

Headline:
"Hugo Award nominations fall victim to misogynistic, racist voting"

And new stealth revised headline, after they got called out on that bullcrap by pretty much EVERY one of their first 100 comments:
"Hugo Awards voting campaign sparks controversy"

Of course the URL is harder to edit to show you f*** ed the pooch so severely with your first take.

Posted by: gekkobear at April 06, 2015 07:04 PM (v9FkB)

379 To quote Wendell the Spokesmanatee:
Meeehoooo hooooooon!

Regarding EW, as they say these days, "Top kek". The tears are delicious. Best $40 on entertainment I've spent this year.

Posted by: JS at April 06, 2015 07:50 PM (eBFKC)

380 The only novel by Scalzi I've read is "Old Man's War".
I liked it.

Also, I went to college with this guy and know him (vaguely) personally. Or at least I did 25 years ago.

Not a bad guy. Editor of the school paper.

And I'll tell you this: for years, there was a special section of the Chicago Maroon, called the Grey City Journal, devoted exclusively to leftwing shtuff.

When Scalzi became Editor, he added another special section (The Fourth Estate, I believe it was called), which was pointedly rightwing in its outlook.

And that was all him; no one made him do that.

So he's got that going for him ...

(Look, I don't pretend to know what he's been up to for the last twentysomething years, but, whatever. Google 'Scalzi + I Hate Your Politics' if you want to read something interesting)

Posted by: Lewis at April 07, 2015 12:35 AM (r+YX+)

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