Fundamental Concepts – Guess what Conservatives? We can't win [Weirddave]

Earlier this week, Drew M wrote another chapter in his long running “Let It Burn” saga, Can The GOP Be Reformed? Some Say No, Others Are Wrong. It's a good essay, I encourage anyone who missed it to take a moment to read it, because I'm about to take issue with it.

The issue I have with Drew's thread has nothing to do with it's content. I happen to think that his observations are spot on, and I agree with them. The GOP isn't a conservative party. It isn't going to ever be as conservative as he, and I, and I suspect most of you, would want. The United States will never be as conservative as it should be, and in fact it never was as conservative as we like to pretend. Even if one views the Constitution as the greatest governing document devised by man, which it is, it still has its flaws, and from the day it was ratified efforts from all sides have been ongoing to change or modify its provisions. The problem I have with Drew's essay is that I think he misunderstands the role that we absolutely HAVE to play in the system.

Let It Burn

First, lets dispense with the canard that Conservatives need to just step back and let the worst happen. Let the inevitable collapse occur with an eye towards rebuilding a more traditional, freer, country from the ashes.

It ain't going to happen.

I can think of no situation in the history of mankind where societal or governmental collapse was not followed by a tyrannical government. Remember, oligarchy is the natural state of mankind, once all of the underpinnings of American law and government are destroyed, an oligarchy WILL form to reestablish “order” and to provide “security” for the people. Betting the house that we'd be able to form a successful, American version of the White Army to prevent this strikes me as gambling against very long odds indeed. I understand the seductive nature of let it burn, really I do, and sometimes in frustration or cynicism I waiver towards it's siren call, but ultimately I think it's a fool's gambit. That's not a world I want to live in or want my children or my grandchildren to inherit. Life there is nasty, brutish and short.

Third Party

Now here's a good idea. If the GOP no longer represents the values of a significant portion of it's members, those members should form a party that does. The two parties could then duke it out for the hearts and minds of the right side of the population, with one emerging triumphant. Assuming that it's the breakaway Conservative party, we would then be able to steer the country back in the direction of prosperity and freedom. Sign me up! Except....

I don't think we have the time. The Republicans deposed the Whigs in six years. But without an issue as divisive as slavery to drive the confrontation, I think it would take much longer than that. We don't have six years. A President Hillary or Warren with a Dem controlled House and Senate would probably cause a collapse in six months. Unfortunately, a serious attempt at forming a third party right now would do nothing but bring about the let it burn scenario.

The GOP is useless!

It's hard to argue against the thesis that the GOP is useless. Citizen push back against the leftist policies of the current Democrat party have given the GOP strong majorities in the House and Senate, and they've done nothing with them, squandering the leverage given them by the Constitution to control the budget, showing their belly on illegal immigration and refusing to even consider using Constitutional measured to bring an out of control Executive to heel. It's hard to see how anything is going to change in the next two years either.

On the other hand, it's easy to forget or overlook things that the GOP has accomplished, either intentionally or unintentionally. For the former, we need look no further than gun rights, which are the best in 40 years. If the burning times ever do come, you can thank your lucky stars the GOP never went full squish on these, as you'll probably be depending on one to survive. In the later camp is global warming. Suppose Gore had won in 2000, and instituted cap and trade and a whole bunch of other nonsense. Not only would the economic growth of the 2000s not have taken place, but we'd be in a world where the 18 year halt in rising global temps would be touted every day as justification for some new government program or another. “We acted on global warming in 2000 and stopped it!” would be the left's first line of defense against any push back from conservatives, and it would be very hard to refute.

Fine. So what is our role?

Our role, as William F. Buckley so succinctly put it, is to stand athwart history, yelling "Stop!". All of the natural forces of history and humanity are constantly working against us. The natural state of mankind is poverty, with a small wealthy elite ruling over the masses. We have a system of government that is based upon individual freedom and responsibility, but like everything else, it's constantly reverting to the mean. Entropy in politics is no less real than it is in the universe. We can never stop it, but we have to work very hard to slow it down. We send conservative Republicans to Congress. Over time, as they get seduced by the DC political class, we replace them with others. Lather, rinse, repeat. This is our way of slowing the Overton window. If we can do that, if we thwart not just the natural tendency of human societies to revert to the mean but also those people who actively work to subvert the system and accrue power to themselves, then once in a while, every generation of so, an inflection point arrives where things are so bad that we actually have a chance to jump start the system again. Reagan was one such point, but what great conservative policy victories did he hand us? He didn't eliminate any government agencies, even though he promised to (bet he would have if he'd had the House). He got suckered into a bad immigration bill that's set the stage for so many of our problems today and he frankly got rooked by Tip O'Neill on spending cuts. Why then do we revere the Reagan presidency? He stood on principle and won the cold war. His conservative policies jump started the economy for 20 years, making the country prosperous enough to support collectivist garbage. He revitalized the concept of conservatism as a vibrant, viable option, such that it only took two years of Democrat malfeasance for the country to give the House to the Republicans in 1994 to put on the brakes. The 1994 conservative wave doesn't happen without Reagan, and without it we would have gotten Hillarycare. How much worse a shape would we be in today if that financial albatross had been hanging around our necks all this time? We got a 16 year reprieve from nationalized healthcare by electing the GOP in 1994, even though the vaunted “Contract With America” was for the most part a paper tiger.

The good news is that as long as we are able to stave off total collapse, we are guaranteed to get these inflection points, because the policies of the Left create them. 2016 is just such a point. I don't see things getting better in the next 2 years, in fact they'll get worse (maybe much, much worse). A President Cruz, or Jindal, or Walker or Perry could very well engineer the same kind of turnaround that Reagan did.

So we win, right?

No. We don't win. That's the tough part in all of this. We can never win. The forces of entropy are always going to be working against us. Any victories we get are eventually going to be undone. Obamacare came along and made the victory over Hillarycare moot, but that victory did buy us 16 years. All we can do is slow things down and every so often pump some more energy into the system, keeping it going. Our job is to be the adults in the room. We have to get up every Saturday morning and cut the grass. No matter how good a job we do, cutting, weeding, trimming and edging, next week the grass needs to be cut again. And the following week, and the one after that. Forever. When we die, our kids have to cut the grass, and their kids, and their kids. The grass never stops growing, the same job always has to be done again next week. If we give up, slack off, stop cutting the grass, pretty soon we don't have a nice lawn, we have a weed choked lot. I don't want to live in a weed choked lot, so I cut the grass. It's boring and redundant and frustrating, but I do it. My (metaphorical) neighbors across the street don't bother, and their lawn looks like shit. Our political opponents don't bother, and their country looks like shit. Shit has one thing going for it: It's easy. It requires no work. I don't want my country to look like shit, so I do the work. It's Sisyphean, so I'll close with Camus:

The absurd man says yes and his effort will henceforth be
unceasing. If there is a personal fate, there is no higher destiny, or
at least there is but one which he concludes is inevitable and
despicable. For the rest, he knows himself to be the master of his
days. At that subtle moment when man glances backward over his
life, Sisyphus returning toward his rock, in that slight pivoting he
contemplates that series of unrelated actions which becomes his
fate, created by him, combined under his memory’s eye and soon
sealed by his death. Thus, convinced of the wholly human origin of
all that is human, a blind man eager to see who knows that the
night has no end, he is still on the go. The rock is still rolling.
I leave Sisyphus at the foot of the mountain! One always finds
one’s burden again. But Sisyphus teaches the higher fidelity that
negates the gods and raises rocks. He too concludes that all is well.
This universe henceforth without a master seems to him neither
sterile nor futile. Each atom of that stone, each mineral flake of
that night-filled mountain, in itself forms a world. The struggle
itself toward the heights is enough to fill a man’s heart. One must
imagine Sisyphus happy.
-The Myth of Sisyphus

Our role is to be the absurd man.

Posted by: Open Blogger at 10:25 AM

Comments

(Jump to bottom of comments)

1 The burn will come whether you will it or not. It's baked in the cake at this point. Our government, as it's currently constituted, cannot be saved. The incentives are all wrong.

Posted by: toby928(C) at April 04, 2015 10:27 AM (rwI+c)

2 Or, the cake can get left out in the rain ...

Posted by: Adriane the Lunar Ranging Critic ... at April 04, 2015 10:28 AM (nSOh+)

3

You want General Washington
You will settle for General Pinochet
You will get Colonel Gaddafi

Posted by: toby928(C) at April 04, 2015 10:29 AM (rwI+c)

4 There are a lot of RINOs fully on board with the AGW scam.

I will repeat endlessly we have no Party. They don't want us and we don't want them.

Posted by: Vic We Have No Party at April 04, 2015 10:30 AM (wlDny)

5 You will get Colonel Gaddafi

that didn't went well, but while it lasted his Amazons were faaaaaaaaaabulous!

Posted by: Adriane the Lunar Ranging Critic ... at April 04, 2015 10:30 AM (nSOh+)

6 Apr�s moi le d�luge

Posted by: Top Men at April 04, 2015 10:31 AM (OqR5R)

7 ... end well ...

Posted by: Adriane the Lunar Ranging Critic ... at April 04, 2015 10:32 AM (nSOh+)

8 Black diamonds are forever

Posted by: Top Men at April 04, 2015 10:32 AM (OqR5R)

9 Oh well. Time to get the hubby up ...

Posted by: Adriane the Lunar Ranging Critic ... at April 04, 2015 10:32 AM (nSOh+)

10 Here's my Easter analogy.

We've been living an eternal Holy Saturday for the past 8 years or so.

The liberals have one. They killed us. We're facing tribulation.

But there is hope yet that we may rise.

I do not believe that we will stay in this pit forever. They overplayed their hand and have pushed too many too far.

The only question is if we can survive til tomorrow.

Posted by: Lauren at April 04, 2015 10:33 AM (MYCIw)

11 "Let it burn" is a misnomer of sorts, in that it implies the burning to be something occurring in the future.

It's already burning.

Prepare.

Posted by: Cloyd Freud, Unemployed at April 04, 2015 10:33 AM (lG2E3)

12 Interesting take on the Sisyphus myth. Here's another: Imagine Bill Maher waking up every morning convinced that his mind is the greatest power on earth.

Posted by: mrp at April 04, 2015 10:33 AM (JBggj)

13 Won*

Clearly I need coffee.

Posted by: Lauren at April 04, 2015 10:33 AM (MYCIw)

14 Our government's debt is impossible to pay off, or to even support at historical sovereign interest rates. Our government will default, by legislation or by inflation. Given those choices, our rulers will always chose inflation.

Posted by: toby928(C) at April 04, 2015 10:33 AM (rwI+c)

15 No matter how good a job we do, cutting, weeding, trimming and edging, next week the grass needs to be cut again. And the following week, and the one after that. Forever.

This is why winter is my favorite season.

That, and centipedes.

Posted by: rickl at April 04, 2015 10:35 AM (sdi6R)

16 Let the inevitable collapse occur with an eye towards rebuilding a more traditional, freer, country from the ashes.

It ain't going to happen.

That rather depends on whether the ratio of Americans to government collaborators changes during the burning.

Posted by: Methos at April 04, 2015 10:35 AM (ZbV+0)

17 Oh. More Right-Wing Pessimism Chic.

How original. And unhelpful. And tedious. And . . . well, not actually very original.

Anyway, how we win is by creating our own networks such that we do not have to rely on members of the dominant culture. We stand by one another. The crack response to the Memories Pizza situation is a good example. Same with the Florist in WA.

Stop relying on the tools of the dominant culture. Weaken it. Create parallel institutions. Insulate. Then, when the dominant culture ossifies, we will infect it.

So, we win the way blacks won.

Or we can be stoic and weepy.

Posted by: Mr. Estrada at April 04, 2015 10:35 AM (oE6t1)

18 It's election season in the UK. Commie crank and antisemite George Galloway is up for reelection

A brewery in his district tweaked him with a tweet asking why was Galloway the only candidate not to visit the brewery. A little bit of snark.

For that tweet, Galloway threatened online in a tweet to get police to pull the Brewers license and destroy the business. For not kissing the ring, or bowing enough. Sounds familiar doesn't it? Only here it isn't one crank politician, it's the media and the mob selecting targets for thought crime

We cannot just let it burn. We have to fight back, everytime. We will lose too much but we will also win some. They need food men to do nothing

Posted by: ThunderB, have you packed your bag? at April 04, 2015 10:36 AM (nl2r8)

19 Or we can be stoic and weepy.

Or we can do both.

Posted by: toby928(C) at April 04, 2015 10:36 AM (rwI+c)

20 Oops. That's good men

Posted by: ThunderB, have you packed your bag? at April 04, 2015 10:36 AM (nl2r8)

21 Stop being afraid.

Posted by: eman at April 04, 2015 10:36 AM (MQEz6)

22 You're just talking about buying time. Which is alright I guess, but it won't stop the eventual collapse. Never in the history of the world has the major governments ignored the economic realities of funding themselves and a large percentage of their populous from non-existent money on the scale we see today. It's not that we want to "let it burn", it's going to burn.

Posted by: lowandslow at April 04, 2015 10:36 AM (OBbk5)

23 Conservatives can win, but not through the Republican Party and not any time soon. The win will be only through rebuilding after the collapse, not staving it off. That's too late.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 04, 2015 10:37 AM (39g3+)

24 I want to plan on how we shape the coming military dictatorship into time-limited expedient like Pinochet's, rather than some neo-monarchy like Mubarak attempted.

Posted by: toby928(C) at April 04, 2015 10:39 AM (rwI+c)

25 Stop being afraid.
====

Yep. That's the first step. And the most important one.

Posted by: mrp at April 04, 2015 10:40 AM (JBggj)

26 Vote for folks that will do well in guiding the collapse as much as possible, and are well-suited to aid the recovery.

And stop being afraid of the bad things to come.

Fear just makes you weak and stuffed with rationalizations.

Posted by: eman at April 04, 2015 10:41 AM (MQEz6)

27 Estonia collapsed as part of the Soviet Union and then prospered following Freidman economic theory.

Posted by: commentorior at April 04, 2015 10:42 AM (ODxAs)

28 I read that Sisyphus essay decades ago.

it was dumb then, too.

Posted by: eman at April 04, 2015 10:43 AM (MQEz6)

29 The win will be only through rebuilding after the collapse, not staving it off. That's too late.

Yea, as I said, that's not going to happen. It never has. What makes you think that we'd be any different? After a collapse, Somalia happens. Argentina happens. The Soviet Union happens. Concord, 1776 doesn't happen. For all that let it burn is a prediction based upon cold, hard reality, the aftermath touted by its proponents is pure fantasy and wistful thinking.

Posted by: Weirddave at April 04, 2015 10:43 AM (WvS3w)

30 i'm no longer participating in what the gop is trying to guilt me into participating in....i get a letter a week asking if i've given up....if i'm leaving them right now when they are just about ready to make some big bold move....fuck 'em.....we gave them the numbers they gave us more excuses.....i'll give directly to conservatives conservative organizations but i won't vote for a rino, i won't support the establishment or their candidates....i won't pick the lesser of two evils if they lose the house, senate or presidency because i didn't vote for their squish.......i'm at peace with that....

Posted by: phoenixgirl at April 04, 2015 10:44 AM (u8GsB)

31
29 The win will be only through rebuilding after the collapse, not staving it off. That's too late.

Yea, as I said, that's not going to happen. It never has. What makes you think that we'd be any different? After a collapse, Somalia happens. Argentina happens. The Soviet Union happens. Concord, 1776 doesn't happen. For all that let it burn is a prediction based upon cold, hard reality, the aftermath touted by its proponents is pure fantasy and wistful thinking.
Posted by: Weirddave at April 04, 2015 10:43 AM (WvS3w)

The American Revelution also never happened before.

Posted by: eman at April 04, 2015 10:44 AM (MQEz6)

32 Posted by: Weirddave at April 04, 2015 10:43 AM (WvS3w)

Prepare for Somalia, then.

Posted by: Cloyd Freud, Unemployed at April 04, 2015 10:44 AM (lG2E3)

33 O/T from last spread. Supremes deciding license tags? Yeah that's a high priority in the nation.

The Confederate flag controversy is so funny for the stupidity of the complaining peoples. Almost EVERY flag in the old Confederacy, except SC TN and VA are take off of the Confederate national flag. NC's is an exact copy which use to have the date NC left the union on it. FL? The crosses, Ga yep, MS? includes the battle flag in it. AL crosses, TX same pattern.

Thugs have NO clue. None.

Posted by: Nip Sip at April 04, 2015 10:44 AM (0FSuD)

34 "Unfortunately, a serious attempt at forming a third party right now would do nothing but bring about the let it burn scenario."

And this is the real point you are trying to make right here--Don't Leave The Party.

Some of us want to Let It Burn not because something can be built from the ashes, but because there will be no way to rid ourselves of the Left unless we drastically reduce the number of Leftists.

Posted by: Monty James at April 04, 2015 10:45 AM (RaJPc)

35 The GOP isn't the reason for the limits on gun control. It's that gun owners via the NRA and other groups have shown a take no prisoners attitude. Every time the gun grabbers have tried something the supporters have seen their candidates crushed. If the GOP thought they could sell out 2nd Amendment types they would, just like they are beginning to sell out pro-life groups.

Posted by: Not Loved Time to be Feared at April 04, 2015 10:45 AM (nRvEn)

36 I get so tired of hearing about this impending collapse. The collapse is already here. Just because things can and will get worse doesn't mean the collapse hasn't already happened. It has. Our constitutional republic is gone. Only vestiges of it remain. Just because they haven't washed away completely yet doesn't mean the collapse hasn't already occurred.

We are a political and cultural minority, and will be for a very long time. Consolidate. Build networks. Become self-reliant apart from the dominant culture. Our focus should be on our tribe.

In a sense, we need to redefine victory. None of us will live to see the broader culture restored, but that's beside the point.

Posted by: Mr. Estrada at April 04, 2015 10:45 AM (oE6t1)

37 Or we can be stoic and weepy.

Posted by: Mr. Estrada at April 04, 2015 10:35 AM (oE6t1)
_____________________

Yes, when I read pieces whining about how all the odds are against us and there is no chance we can win, I think about the soldiers under General Washington's command, with little money or supplies, scrounging for food, some without shoes, freezing in the snow -- and yet somehow they kept going. They kept fighting, even when the battle, from their vantage point, must have looked and felt completely hopeless, they still kept fighting.

We owe it to them, and to those who will come after us, to do no less.

Posted by: TrivialPursuer at April 04, 2015 10:46 AM (lmdHn)

38 I think it's just that most people can't believe the U.S. would ever break up, but a dissolution of a nation or nations isn't anything new for mankind. I don't believe it will be some post apocalyptic scenario we see in fiction, they'll just be large groups that that will reject the authority of the government left standing and draw up new borders and governments that best represent themselves. I don't think there will be a civil war, hell I don't even think the majority of the left will really care if we share a country when the collapse comes.

Posted by: lowandslow at April 04, 2015 10:46 AM (OBbk5)

39 Pander Bear Party will fix it!

Posted by: Turd Ferguson at April 04, 2015 10:46 AM (MYPM9)

40 No ne knows what the future will bring.

Stop being afraid.

Posted by: eman at April 04, 2015 10:46 AM (MQEz6)

41 We are going to have to get out from under our dollar debts. Like a bankruptcy. If the only way to do that is to overturn the government, it is what will happen. Probably more or less peacefully, rather than a mad max war of all against all. Nuclear weapons are the wild card.

Posted by: toby928(C) at April 04, 2015 10:47 AM (rwI+c)

42 We don't win? I don't guy that. our Founding Fathers won, and we all, the citizens of the US, have enjoyed the greatest era of freedom, prosperity, and peace in human history. No nation has achieved such freedom for the common man in written human history, ever. We win by restoring our constitution and passing on the habits of freedom to future generations. We must have children, we must educate our children, and we must get involved in academia, the arts, pop culture, the law, and only support and frequent businesses that support our values. We need to start circling the wagons around those that share our values and refuse to give quarter to those that are the enemies of freedom. We must restore our constitution, and we must challenge those that attack it - every single time. The left goes after anyone that stands in their way, and they use the courts, the media - anything - to achieve their ends. We must be willing to be aggressive and sue enemies of freedom over and over again and ridicule them in the press just as they do to decent people. Freedom costs, and that price is constant willingness to fight back. It requires constant diligence. Man's native state is slavery, and we have enjoyed, for a brief time, a couple hundred years of freedom.

Posted by: Mistress Overdone at April 04, 2015 10:47 AM (2/oBD)

43 A third option between burning and reclaiming American glory seems the most likely. What have the great powers since the Renaissance most all done? Become the next powers bitch. Think UK post WW2. THey had finances worse than ours so they killed the military, bought votes and sold their empire to keep buying votes. Do you think the US establishment would have second thoughts about selling US out to China/ India/whoever to maintain their lifestyle?

Posted by: pashmr at April 04, 2015 10:47 AM (3aNC4)

44 Our government will default, by legislation or by inflation. Given those choices, our rulers will always chose inflation.

Maybe. I think some in the banks understand that if they destroy the currency, their influence goes to zero with it (and that's being optimistic). Currently we inflate the currency by making loans. The problem with that is loans are paid with interest which takes more out of the system than the initial loan, so they have to make more loans just to avoid deflation/disinflation. At some point you run out of borrowers and that process ends spectacularly.

Posted by: Methos at April 04, 2015 10:48 AM (ZbV+0)

45 Two fronts conservatives need to be fighting on.

GOP primaries: taking over the existing party is easier than starting a new one. Yes, 90% will fail and often the ones that succeed immediately go native. But we keep replacing them until they learn.

Article V: feds will never limit their own power, but state legislatures don't have that same incentive

Posted by: Commodore BTC at April 04, 2015 10:49 AM (zc/sw)

46 Paragraph 1: "It's a good essay"

Para 2: "nothing to do with it's content"

And again: "a significant portion of it's members"

When I go to a concert by a professional musician, I kind of expect them to play the right notes. When I read a blog...

Posted by: Bat Chain Puller at April 04, 2015 10:50 AM (jpc8l)

47 I, for one, welcome our weed choked overlords.

Posted by: Count de Monet at April 04, 2015 10:50 AM (JO9+V)

48 dave, if the burning times start -- your in a bad place.

Don't underestimate the propensity for violence in the middle class:

Whiskey Rebellion
Finians
Bleeding Kansas
The Mormon Wars
California's Water Wars

Posted by: Jean at April 04, 2015 10:50 AM (ztOda)

49 With $18 trillion in debt, $100 trillion in unfunded liabilities, and neither party expressing the slightest interest in fiscal responsibility, the burning is inevitable. It's not a wish or a strategy, it's going to happen and nothing can stop it. In fact, as someone mentioned upthread, it has already started.

The only questions are how to pick up the pieces in the aftermath, and who will do it.

Posted by: rickl at April 04, 2015 10:51 AM (sdi6R)

50 The American Revelution also never happened before.

The American Revolution didn't happen following a complete collapse. It was a change to a stable system of government.

Posted by: Weirddave at April 04, 2015 10:51 AM (WvS3w)

51
You want General Washington

You will settle for General Pinochet

You will get Colonel ~~Gaddafi~~ Nuisance

FIFY.

Posted by: Zap Rowsdower at April 04, 2015 10:51 AM (MMC8r)

52
"we need look no further than gun rights, which are the best in 40 years. If the burning times ever do come, you can thank your lucky stars the GOP never went full squish on these"

Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act 1993

Agreed to by the House of Representatives on November 23, 1993 (238 - 187) By the Senate on November 24, 1993 (passed by voice vote)
Signed into law by President Bill Clinton on November 30, 1993

Thanks GOP!

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at April 04, 2015 10:51 AM (kdS6q)

53 Damn. GENERAL Nuisance.

Totally blew that one.

Posted by: Zap Rowsdower at April 04, 2015 10:52 AM (MMC8r)

54 That rather depends on whether the ratio of Americans to government collaborators changes during the burning.
Posted by: Methos at April 04, 2015 10:35 AM (ZbV+0)

Now, that's my kind of math.

Posted by: jwpaine at April 04, 2015 10:54 AM (a3NCX)

55 That rather depends on whether the ratio of Americans to government collaborators changes during the burning.
Posted by: Methos at April 04, 2015 10:35 AM (ZbV+0)

Now, that's my kind of math.

Posted by: jwpaine at April 04, 2015 10:54 AM (a3NCX)

56 . . . then the terrorists have won.

Posted by: Dr. Varno at April 04, 2015 10:54 AM (TF10X)

57 Stand and fight.

Don't stop fighting and fight harder than your enemies.

When you are low on ammo and the enemy is in the wire, call in the FPF, give them the finger and yell that this is not over yet.

Posted by: Charles Martel at April 04, 2015 10:55 AM (EWQg3)

58 The American Revolution didn't happen following a complete collapse. It was a change to a stable system of government.

For some values of 'stable'.

Posted by: Methos at April 04, 2015 10:55 AM (ZbV+0)

59 It's going to burn whether we let it or not. The Left is calling anyone who reports a fire a racist homophobic hater, the firefighters are shot at while their captains ally with the arsonists.

The people who were always there to make sure America solved its problems are now considered to be subversive terrorist aliens by not only the Democrats but by the GOPe too

Hillary vs Jeb next year? I have a choice between getting stabbed in the face or stabbed in the back.

Sorry folks, America is in late stage cancer and we're still hanging on hoping that latest "miracle cure" works this time

Posted by: kbdabear at April 04, 2015 10:56 AM (GrXXa)

60 Vote for folks that will do well in guiding the collapse as much as possible, and are well-suited to aid the recovery.

That's the best we can do at this point.

After a collapse, Somalia happens. Argentina happens. The Soviet Union happens. Concord, 1776 doesn't happen.

Whether it hasn't happened before or not is irrelevant. We're past the point of saving, don't you get it? There's no righting the Titanic as its vertical in the water going under. Its all about what you do to survive and build a new ship, not saving this one.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 04, 2015 10:56 AM (39g3+)

61 Oops. I actually tapped the "Post" button twice, because old.

Posted by: jwpaine at April 04, 2015 10:56 AM (a3NCX)

62 The GOP is . . . well, whatever. Vote for it. Don't. Doesn't matter. Look out for the tribe. That's the source of our strength. The place I used to work at is run by conservatives. They don't hire leftists there. If I know a conservative who needs a job, I send 'em there.

Look out for the tribe.

Posted by: Mr. Estrada at April 04, 2015 10:56 AM (oE6t1)

63 there is a dishonesty inherent in "let it burn"

Those that shout it loudly are actually shouting "let them burn"

I have yet to see a mechanism or safety room that will prevent all of us being swept into that furnace, including those that want to hunker down and let others be destroyed.
In a way it is a blind and stupid as the progs that invite the crocs into the house and hope the crocs get sated before they get to them.

(speaking of avoiding crocs)

http://tinyurl.com/mpwpfz5

Posted by: Kindltot at April 04, 2015 10:57 AM (t//F+)

64 It's going to burn whether we let it or not. The Left is calling anyone who reports a fire a racist homophobic hater, the firefighters are shot at while their captains ally with the arsonists.

Exactly. We aren't in a "let" it burn stage. Its burning. We're in a "how will we rebuild" stage. Some people just don't seem to grasp this.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 04, 2015 10:57 AM (39g3+)

65
"Suppose Gore had won in 2000, and instituted cap and trade and a whole bunch of other nonsense."

Energy Independence and Security Act of 2007

Includes the Light Buld Ban, Renewable Fuel Standard, Increased Corporate Average Fuel Economy, Appliance Energy Efficiency and so on.

House agreed to Senate amendment on December 6, 2007 (235-181)
Senate agreed to House amendment on December 13, 2007 (86-

Signed into law by President George W. Bush on December 19, 2007

Thanks GOP!

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at April 04, 2015 10:58 AM (kdS6q)

66 Big business is not our friend -
It's time for cons to push for raising corporate taxes with some minimum mkt cap or revenue threshold. The argument is that raising it would lead to job losses but it's a matter of who blinks first - cons or big business.

Posted by: Aj at April 04, 2015 10:58 AM (1qRzj)

67 Weirddave, you keep looking at this in terms of history. Again which is fine, but what we face is something we don't really have any historical perspective on. The simple truth is, we don't know what will rise from the ashes. Believe it or not, I'm more of an optimist, maybe there will be enough clear thinking people that will create something better.

Posted by: lowandslow at April 04, 2015 10:58 AM (OBbk5)

68 rickl

I think you are right. There is no way that our nation will survive the debt levels that we have incurred. But let's make sure we are on record as being the ones that shouted from the rooftops the warning of the impending debt doom. That being said, we all need to get our own houses in order. We need to take care of our debts. We need to make sure we are secure financially. We need to organize, band together, to be ready for when we can step up and start picking up the pieces. We need to stop frequenting businesses that support the leftists. We need to only support those that love our country and constitution - period. Oh yeah, and we need to have a lot of children. The lefties don't have too many babies. We need to get back to having larger families with more than the typical two kids. More like 8 kids, like people used to have. Demographically, this country overall has a dismal fertility rate. We need to be the ones that inherit the future by having children.

Posted by: Mistress Overdone at April 04, 2015 10:58 AM (2/oBD)

69 There's no righting the Titanic as its vertical in the water going under.

Meh. I'm a "low angle breakup theory" kind of guy, but whatevs.

Posted by: rickl at April 04, 2015 10:59 AM (sdi6R)

70
50 The American Revelution also never happened before.

The American Revolution didn't happen following a complete collapse. It was a change to a stable system of government.
Posted by: Weirddave at April 04, 2015 10:51 AM (WvS3w)

So?

The point is History is loaded with firsts.

Why are you so afraid of a radical change? It is on the way anyway; why not try to steer it in your faver as much as possible?

Posted by: eman at April 04, 2015 10:59 AM (MQEz6)

71 "The American Revolution didn't happen following a complete collapse. It was a change to a stable system of government."

And the best system of government for its time. The Revolutionaries* just wanted that splendid English form of government to extend to the Colonies.

* - The American Revolution wasn't really a revolution, as King George remained in power afterwards. Deposing him was never the goal. Independence was, and even that wasn't the goal initially.

Posted by: FireHorse at April 04, 2015 10:59 AM (wdXFj)

72 >>>>>Prepare for Somalia, then

actually, prepare for Biafra

Posted by: Bigby's Karate Chop at April 04, 2015 11:00 AM (XvP14)

73 Big business is not our friend. Neither is government. You can't trust either, but of the two only one is truly accountable at any level: business.

Anyone calling for higher taxes on business is simply looking to feed their favorite of the two: government. Which needs to be starved. Cronyism and abuse of power by business will not be fixed by giving politicians even more power and money. That's simply idiotic.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 04, 2015 11:00 AM (39g3+)

74 I respect your post WD but can't agree wholly....

The people are actively trying to sabotage the riding lawnmower we use to keep the BIG yard cut....

too many weeds leave a town susceptible to wildfires....

time to worry about firebreaks for your own house and leave the neighbors to theirs.

Posted by: Sven S Blade a.k.a. El Assassin@sven10077 at April 04, 2015 11:00 AM (/4AZU)

75 Slight quibble - I don't see expanded gun rights as a GOP victory. Quite honestly, I think if the chairs were arranged a little differently, the GOPe would be very happy to let gun rights go the way of the dodo.

No, it's the NRA, GOA, local gun rights groups, and a loud and vocal MAJORITY who accomplished those victories.

Posted by: @JohnTant at April 04, 2015 11:01 AM (CVTpV)

76 Today's "conservatives" stand before the left and say, "We completely agree with you. We just want to modify the plan a bit and get some graft for our side."

There has been one conservative president since Hoover - Reagan - and he was unable to cut back government, but merely slowed the growth of parts of it.

We have been completely betrayed by the "conservative" politicians we elected. We have zero ability to stop the momentum or even slow it down.

To even try to assert principles contrary to the left is to be condemned, criminalized, robbed and destroyed by our own fellow citizens and government. The best we can do is try to aid the victims, as with the pizza and flower ladies. But we can't save everyone.

Posted by: despair at April 04, 2015 11:02 AM (J6suc)

77 "After a collapse, Somalia happens. Argentina happens. The Soviet Union happens."

You're such a pessimist, Weirddave. Something better can certainly emerge from the chaos.

Posted by: Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant at April 04, 2015 11:03 AM (wdXFj)

78 I think there's plenty of history to look back on, and its initials are SPQR. When the US collapses, its not going to be like the British Empire or the French or Spanish before it, I suspect and fear. Its going to be a worldwide degradation of civilization and technology.

People are past the point where we are able to rebuild effectively and find self reliance. Too much of the population is helpless without big government and a civilization-wide infrastructure to survive under. Too many people are utterly unaware of what to do if the power shuts off or the water stops coming when they turn the faucet.

This is an awful thought but its not avoidable at this point, I am certain. Its just a question of how long, when. Not if. And like the housing collapse, the longer we put it off, the worse the damage will be.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 04, 2015 11:04 AM (39g3+)

79 The Left is a parasite that lives on stolen wealth. Monetary collapse may well be our only hope for the survival of liberty.

Posted by: toby928(C) at April 04, 2015 11:04 AM (rwI+c)

80 Those that shout it loudly are actually shouting "let them burn"

No we aren't, but by all means go on trying to think for us since you're clearly smarter than any of us. Just like the rest of the left.

Posted by: Methos at April 04, 2015 11:04 AM (ZbV+0)

81 Wow!! and we think the USA has problems with cheap foreign labor!!

Check this out! translate the comments!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFq2aAcf-8s

Bettina Lorenz

"I wonder how much impudence, the government may still allow in a way to try to dumb down humanity to want to let us in faith, we have skill shortages. If their view, it would be this: Is it really a failure of the government, no I call it sloppy and incompetent, ranging from education policy, which is the cornerstone of any future career prerequisite. It was only in 2014 considerable difficulties, not even the students had a room available. And reason alone because they do not even know where to stay. And not at first studies are begun. We have a serious shortage of apartments. One has to be blessed with abundant STUPIDITY not to understand that one depends on the other, to have commercial success. But no, it is decided the easier way. It takes care of a trek shit about how the job prospects of citizens looks. Since these silly dares face of the laity shamelessly in front of the camera and say we need skilled workers from abroad without zubekennen whose fault and the root cause of this is. Who are yet to treckig for nothing when it comes: Political fail to try. Ugh!"

m0nchichi

"The German holds so much of themselves, because we are the Germans! We build great cars and so have technology. The Germans are so yes fleisig. I could puke! I hate my country so much that I suffer from depression! I am voluntarily unemployed for several weeks because I have no more buck! I sit day in and day out at home and play music, watch TV or something similar. What a great life. It is so full of happiness fulfilled because Germany is soooo great. I had to laugh aloud when I heard on the contribution that had the Spaniards are eingeganngen and therefore into their own country although there prevails a lower unemployment. Germany is ignorant and narrow-minded and conceited. If I were at least in a country where I could compensate, in the form of nice people, great environment, etc., my job and wage would have Denich matter. Nature is able to do it all again wet. So, yes, even hats Spaniard said. Each of which has it and has recognized this stitch from Germany, goes abroad. The Germans want as said here many times will exploit and bottom line stand as the best. That's why it gets even never legislate to stop the invasion. In 1000 years, there is no SINGLE Germans more, because the gene pool is then composed of Greeks, Turks, Poles, Russians, etc. who have settled here. There will then be in other countries more German. That's sad. I hope I can do it soon to go abroad, or I'll kill myself sometime around. No more pleasurable to perform this drecks life."

Posted by: MachiasPrivateer at April 04, 2015 11:04 AM (EMi53)

82 Oh, get a grip! Things go round and round and we're up next.

Posted by: Bruce J. at April 04, 2015 11:04 AM (iQIUe)

83 73 Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 04, 2015 11:00 AM (39g3+)

I would happily watch Hollyweird tie itself into knots trying to keep the Ike tax cuts....

One of the nice things about finally taking your hands off the steering wheel is watching some folk not enjoy the crash as much as they thought they would...

https://youtu.be/HEuPnR-ftPY

"Just Let Go"

Posted by: Sven S Blade a.k.a. El Assassin@sven10077 at April 04, 2015 11:05 AM (/4AZU)

84 "Big business is not our friend"

Nor are American businesses usually. Apple? Fuck Apple. I'm buying Samsung from now on. I want tech companies to sell me tech shit, not preach to me about how to live.

We have to stop relying on the institutions of the dominant culture. Ace's "kill the TV" idea is basically on the right track. We are, like blacks in decades past, a despised minority. 20 yeas ago we weren't, so we're kind of new at this minority thing, but we had better start getting good at it. Disconnect from the institutions that preserve and perpetuate the dominant culture, weaken it, insulate ourselves. Build a fully functional, self-contained, parallel culture. *That's* victory.

Look after the damned tribe. The "collapse" of the nation has already occurred. We're not a nation now. We're a geographical landmass with a decaying legal and political infrastructure containing different tribes.

Look out for the tribe.

Posted by: Mr. Estrada at April 04, 2015 11:05 AM (oE6t1)

85 One small correction, despair(#76)--There's been one conservative president since Coolidge. Hoover was a Progressive. The New Deal was Hoover on steroids.

Posted by: Burke at April 04, 2015 11:05 AM (ugH4u)

86 One would think our loud and constant objections to any abridgement of our right to bear arms would be alarming to those temporarily in power.

Posted by: jwpaine at April 04, 2015 11:06 AM (a3NCX)

87 77 Posted by: Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant at April 04, 2015 11:03 AM (wdXFj)

ISIS could be solved in 30 days by hard people with guns and a silent fucking western press.

Posted by: Sven S Blade a.k.a. El Assassin@sven10077 at April 04, 2015 11:06 AM (/4AZU)

88 So the rallying cry is "We Cant Win!" ??? Fight and labor ceaselessly so that once every generation or so we enjoy an inflection point that temporarily slows down the collapse, maybe?

I'm with Private Hudson. Game over, man. Game over!!

Posted by: Count de Monet at April 04, 2015 11:06 AM (JO9+V)

89
I don't see expanded gun rights as a GOP victory. Quite honestly, I think if the chairs were arranged a little differently, the GOPe would be very happy to let gun rights go the way of the dodo.
Posted by: @JohnTant

Recall the GOP went wobbly as hell after the Gifford and Newtown shootings, and had to be dragged back from running across the aisle to bi-partisan solution the 2nd to a fare thee well.

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at April 04, 2015 11:06 AM (kdS6q)

90 Disconnect from the institutions that preserve and perpetuate the dominant culture, weaken it, insulate ourselves. Build a fully functional, self-contained, parallel culture. *That's* victory.

Christians tried that in the early 20th century and it hasn't worked out well for us. Just a warning. I agree the situation is different but what happens when you put out fish phonebooks and withdraw from culture is you have absolutely no say in what happens and can only watch it rot.

I agree with pulling back to be local, but not isolated and tribal. Work locally but with everyone around you, not just your kind.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 04, 2015 11:08 AM (39g3+)

91 Maybe the NRA and the Pro-Lifer's have a model we should follow. Let's build up 5 or 10 hills, and defend them like a stone wall.

Posted by: Jean at April 04, 2015 11:08 AM (ztOda)

92 look, the break up of the nation is pretty much inevitable. based on demographics alone, this nation is not having enough children. to remedy this, we are importing immigrants at unprecedented rates. the immigrants are largely poor, uneducated, and Hispanic, largely from Mexico. The rate of assimilation is being far out paced by the rate of immigration, and as a result, we are seeing people that are legally U.S. citizens that feel no sense of allegiance to the U.S.. Instead, they have a stronger sense of patriotism for Mexico, and they also view the US as largely an evil nation of oppressors that "stole" land from the brown people. The Southwest of the U.S. will most likely end up being a part of Mexico or a separate Hispanic state simply by virtue of the Hispanic populations that are moving there. In addition, the Hispanic immigrants that are coming into the nation in droves are much more socialist-leaning, and they also do not share our culture of freedom nor have a cultural connection to our constitutional principles or civil rights, basic human rights, freedom of speech, etc.. The country will break up in to sections. We need to be ready for this.

Posted by: Mistress Overdone at April 04, 2015 11:08 AM (2/oBD)

93 79 The Left is a parasite that lives on stolen wealth. Monetary collapse may well be our only hope for the survival of liberty.
Posted by: toby928(C) at April 04, 2015 11:04 AM (rwI+c)

This is what I think. We are now being ruled by the Free Shit Army and government drones. It was reported yesterday that 93,000,000 Americans are out of the labor force, an all time high.

Once the dollar collapses, those people will be helpless, and there is a chance that competent people will be able to reassert authority.

Posted by: rickl at April 04, 2015 11:08 AM (sdi6R)

94 75 Slight quibble - I don't see expanded gun rights as a GOP victory. Quite honestly, I think if the chairs were arranged a little differently, the GOPe would be very happy to let gun rights go the way of the dodo.

Posted by: @JohnTant at April 04, 2015 11:01 AM (CVTpV)

IIRC, the GOPe has sold us down the river on some of these gun rights too.

How long will these gun rights victories last while the GOPe confirms far left AG's who vigorously persecute and prosecute legal gun owners, dealers, and manufacturers? Think the SOCOTUS will save us? Not if the GOPe confirms the next Justice by a very comfortable margin. Even if Jeb won, the justices he'd nominate would make Roberts look like William Renquist in comparison

Posted by: kbdabear at April 04, 2015 11:09 AM (GrXXa)

95 Exactly.

Posted by: Prince Matchabelli at April 04, 2015 11:09 AM (zmZ2x)

96 91 Posted by: Jean at April 04, 2015 11:08 AM (ztOda)

I far prefer the GOP remain acting as a cuckold while Ogabe roleplays raping Lady America with our wives....

//Rinse Prius and your GOP betters,

Posted by: Sven S Blade a.k.a. El Assassin@sven10077 at April 04, 2015 11:09 AM (/4AZU)

97 Its true, the left survives on other peoples' money. Most of the federal budget is now made up of programs and payouts that assist the left either directly through grants and funding or indirectly through propping up their voters and supporters. Almost every agency's budget has sections that are just about giving money to leftist groups to survive on, funding either the malign but esteemed like PBS or the lunatic like Code Pink. And the "stimulus" package increased that funding by significant amounts.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 04, 2015 11:11 AM (39g3+)

98 Ha! Just got a call from the Merryland Repubs.

"No money from me, you ineffectual court eunuchs!"
***bam!***

I think I maintain a landline just so's I can slam the receiver down.

Posted by: All Hail Eris at April 04, 2015 11:11 AM (KH1sk)

99 92 Posted by: Mistress Overdone at April 04, 2015 11:08 AM (2/oBD)

You have elucidated "Plan B" quite ably...

Conservatives would be best served joining the Democrats and using La Raza to free up the states to realign and for liberty to have a chance *somewhere.*

Posted by: Sven S Blade a.k.a. El Assassin@sven10077 at April 04, 2015 11:11 AM (/4AZU)

100 "People are past the point where we are able to rebuild effectively and find self reliance. Too much of the population is helpless
without big government and a civilization-wide infrastructure to
survive under. Too many people are utterly unaware of what to do if the
power shuts off or the water stops coming when they turn the faucet."

Christopher, there are a lot of people that lack what I would call basic skills, but people also can learn fast when they need to.

Posted by: lowandslow at April 04, 2015 11:11 AM (OBbk5)

101 Anyone calling for higher taxes on business is simply looking to feed
their favorite of the two: government. Which needs to be starved.
Cronyism and abuse of power by business will not be fixed by giving
politicians even more power and money. That's simply idiotic.

Is it? The Laffer curve works in both directions. If you raise income tax above , say, $200k to 90%, you hurt both the money interests that keep the GOP useless and government income in the medium to long run.

Posted by: Methos at April 04, 2015 11:12 AM (ZbV+0)

102 94 Posted by: kbdabear at April 04, 2015 11:09 AM (GrXXa)

It is not just the 2d amendment that will die within the next 25 years my friend...

"The Newer Better Americans" do not give a fuck about any of the Bill of Rights so long as the check clears.

Posted by: Sven S Blade a.k.a. El Assassin@sven10077 at April 04, 2015 11:12 AM (/4AZU)

103 How long will these gun rights victories last while the GOPe confirms far left AG's who vigorously persecute and prosecute legal gun owners, dealers, and manufacturers?

To be fair, President Obama is not going to nominate a single option that is any other way, no matter who they are. Its not like he's going to say "ohhh, all right, here's someone who doesn't hate white people and guns" eventually.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 04, 2015 11:12 AM (39g3+)

104 Before any of this happens, Step #1 is figuring out what "conservative" means.

I'm conservative as hell when it comes to fiscal matters, border security. Social issues...I don't think I need to tell anyone my view. Foreign policy...I'm in the middle somewhere. Keep a strong military, but we don't need t intervene in every fucking conflict around the world.

The GOP pays lip service fiscally but is no better than the Dems. On foreign policy they're led by McCain and his BOMB BOMB BOMB mentality. And socially, the GOP cons SoCons into voting for them but really doesn't give a fuck either way.

On the other hand with Dems, they are 100% left, 100% of the time. There's no mystery with a Democrat.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at April 04, 2015 11:12 AM (0LHZx)

105 Mistress Overdone, where do you live? Just generally; I'm not asking for your home address.

Posted by: rickl at April 04, 2015 11:13 AM (sdi6R)

106 Let he would trade freedom for temporary safety, leave us. Let his chains bear lightly upon him and let us forget that he was ever one of us.

Or sumthin like that..

Bye-bye. Don't let the door hit you...

Posted by: Kasper D. Hauser at April 04, 2015 11:13 AM (mJBky)

107 "Christians tried that in the early 20th century and it hasn't worked out well for us. Just a warning."

Did they? I actually wouldn't know. I know they did in Rome, and eventually took Rome over. Blacks did in America too, and that worked out pretty well.

"I agree with pulling back to be local, but not isolated and tribal. Work locally but with everyone around you, not just your kind."

Well, right now, since the networks I'm talking about don't exist, we have to work with everyone around us. Just understand that everyone around us basically hates us, and put our people first. Because the people in the dominant culture will *always* put any one of us last.

Posted by: Mr. Estrada at April 04, 2015 11:13 AM (oE6t1)

108 I'm sure there were those who thought Rome could be saved, too.

Maybe it can be salvaged...but let's not put all our eggs in the one basket...

Posted by: Brother Cavil, by the Pale Moon light at April 04, 2015 11:14 AM (m9V0o)

109 So the rallying cry is "We Cant Win!" ??? Fight and labor ceaselessly
so that once every generation or so we enjoy an inflection point that
temporarily slows down the collapse, maybe?

You're going to die, aren't you? It's inevitable. It's not a question of if, it's a question of when. The dying has already started, and you can't stop it.

But I'll bet that you follow a strategy of laboring to make that life as good as possible until it happens, don't you?

Why is this any different?

Posted by: Weirddave at April 04, 2015 11:14 AM (WvS3w)

110 Do you Morons have children? Grandchildren? Look at them. Think about them. Are you just going to stand there and let the wolves take them?

Or are you going to prepare cyanide cocktails for them?

I have children, and I'm sure as hell not going to surrender.

Posted by: Bat Chain Puller at April 04, 2015 11:14 AM (jpc8l)

111 it's mostly useless, like the Hitchhiker's Guide entry, if we need any proof, Pence's jujitsu on himself, Kirk's vote for Lynch, et al,

Posted by: almirante marcus at April 04, 2015 11:15 AM (0u/CC)

112 109 Posted by: Weirddave at April 04, 2015 11:14 AM (WvS3w)

My faith says that death is just a new chapter...

America's assault from Barbarians INSIDE the gate is not...unless we will it so.

I just don't think the whole is redeemable Dave, far better to break it into baby bells.

Posted by: Sven S Blade a.k.a. El Assassin@sven10077 at April 04, 2015 11:15 AM (/4AZU)

113 98 there needs to be an app that does the slamming phone thing. i believe you could make a mint on that.

Posted by: Bigby's Karate Chop at April 04, 2015 11:16 AM (nUxhj)

114 I don't agree... yelling STOP will not help...

We need to point in a different direction. We need to give HOPE to those who want to be free...

But most of all... we have to start talking about what Government IS... and what is SHOULD BE.

We need to argue that the Founder were pretty smart guys... and got it pretty much right...

Point out how intrusive the Government is today... and HOW MUCH IT COSTS US for it to be that intrusive.

We need to talk about how the Government does not have to follow the very laws they enforce on us!

We need to talk about Freedom.... and how ANY Government, even a Democracy, is the ENEMY of Freedom.

And then we need to talk about... why Freedom? What is the PUBLIC interest in Freedom (I can show that the most Free societies advance the Fastest... which is why Hackers are kicking the ass of us IT Security guys, they are free, we are not).

We need to have the BIG conversations... not argue about micro stuff.

Posted by: BB Wolf at April 04, 2015 11:16 AM (qh617)

115 Little Leaguers - Go big or don't go at all!

Forget scales, play the finished work.

Ode to Joy for six year old piano students!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVlD0fih-dg

Posted by: MachiasPrivateer at April 04, 2015 11:16 AM (EMi53)

116 Is it? The Laffer curve works in both directions. If you raise income tax above , say, $200k to 90%, you hurt both the money interests that keep the GOP useless and government income in the medium to long run.

The only businesses that will survive in such an environment are the ones that make the best friends and work closest with the people who have the money and write the laws. Such an environment makes cronyism worse, not better.

Christopher, there are a lot of people that lack what I would call basic skills, but people also can learn fast when they need to.

But people raised to be dependent and look to the government first for solutions rather than see problems as opportunities and a challenge to overcome are going to learn much slower, if they even start. If there's a collapse, most of the people are going to die simply out of ignorance as to how to live while they sit with their hands out yelling about how cruel everyone is for not giving them food and shelter.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 04, 2015 11:16 AM (39g3+)

117 113 98 there needs to be an app that does the slamming phone thing. i believe you could make a mint on that.

Posted by: Bigby's Karate Chop at April 04, 2015 11:16 AM (nUxhj)

Three words.... in an Ap...

Remote

Slapping

Device....

It'd make BILLIONS...

Posted by: BB Wolf at April 04, 2015 11:17 AM (qh617)

118 Posted by: MachiasPrivateer at April 04, 2015 11:16 AM (EMi53)

Is that you, MUMR?

Posted by: Cloyd Freud, Unemployed at April 04, 2015 11:17 AM (lG2E3)

119 Christopher Taylor

No, you do not work with everyone around. What we need to do is stop working with businesses that are donating money to the very entities that want to strip people of their god given freedom! Why give your business to companies that donate to Democrats or leftist causes? Why hire leftists? Why give your business to people that are supporting your demise? The left doesn't do this. The leftists go our of their way to black list anyone that is a conservative. They even go so far as to attack businesses that do not support their world view. Just look at Memories Pizza. Do not hire leftists, do not do business with leftists, and do not use the services of big corporations that support leftists. Instead of going to Starbucks for a latte, go to a privately owned cafe instead. If you can find one that is owned by a conservative family or something, definitely go there instead of Starbucks. If we all did this it would make a big difference.

Posted by: Mistress Overdone at April 04, 2015 11:18 AM (2/oBD)

120 Many conservatives I know talk up how they will continue to fight the good fight, not all is lost, etc. etc.
Yet when I suggest the first step they might take is to pull their kids out of the public education system there are a myriad of reasons that's impossible. Even suggested it to an early retiree for his grandkids as he had all the time in the world. An emphatic no was his answer as we sat in the sun drinking our morning coffee, complaining about the deteriorating state of affairs in the country. Personally I'm tired of hearing it.

Posted by: Carl at April 04, 2015 11:18 AM (6V26t)

121 Er, how long has the cons effort to shrink govt. been in place. At best, the rate of growth of govt slowed and that too if you believe govt projections.
Is it really not possible to write a law that takes the delta between the current corp tax rate and a higher corp tax rate that goes solely to retiring debt keeping rate of govt. growth constant.

Posted by: Aj at April 04, 2015 11:18 AM (1qRzj)

122 110 Posted by: Bat Chain Puller at April 04, 2015 11:14 AM (jpc8l)

My son will be fine, we will exert everything in our power to weather the death rattle of this mess with aplomb....

At the risk of Godwin I am thinking of the Germans who happily kept full pantries as Fascism version 2.0 set their nation on a suicide run....

I aim to hand my son a nice house and a wary distrust in government "taking care of your needs."

We'll cut the deals with what comes next....if the best answer America can come up with is Obama and the SJWs I am not really caring about the ship hitting the rocks anymore.

Posted by: Sven S Blade a.k.a. El Assassin@sven10077 at April 04, 2015 11:18 AM (/4AZU)

123 I don't get this idea that recognizing the inevitable collapse of the current system is somehow defeatist. I would say it's quite the reverse.

Posted by: toby928(C) at April 04, 2015 11:19 AM (rwI+c)

124 I just saw a video of 400 people brawling at a Brooklyn casino over daiquiri lines. I'm fairly certain none of this discussion of political entropy is of any concern to their delicate sensibilities.

"This shit is lit."

Posted by: Fritz at April 04, 2015 11:19 AM (ty633)

125 92. I don't think immigration is necessarily secondary to decreased birth rates in the US. Immigrant labor is cheap and folks use it for the same reason they use Walmart instead of the more expensive Mom and Pop store, or use the internet instead of buying locally. It will be interesting to see what happens in Japan, given their zenophobia and increased numbers of foreign workers, which has also been attributed to low birth rates. In contrast to the US, it is Unlikely any of them will ever vote or have Japanese descendants.

Posted by: Edmund Burke's Shade, languishing in Krazyfornia at April 04, 2015 11:19 AM (cmBvC)

126 Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 04, 2015 11:16 AM (39g3+)

Yesterday.... Girl at Taco Bell had to call a manager over because when I gave her a 20 to pay for my meal, she punched in a 10... and couldn't figure out to just give me 10 extra dollars...

White, probably Senior in High School....

I..... cringed....

Posted by: BB Wolf at April 04, 2015 11:20 AM (qh617)

127 Any kind of breakup of the US would be bloody. Lincoln turned the Union into a roach motel - states can check in but they can never check out. Show me one state governor who has been able to successfully stand against the Feds. We just saw Indiana and Arkansas cave in two days before a twitter mob and some disapproving words from Obama. Feh.

Posted by: despair at April 04, 2015 11:20 AM (J6suc)

128 Thugs have NO clue. None.
Posted by: Nip Sip at April 04, 2015 10:44 AM (0FSuD)

I agree with you about all the states except for Texas. The Lone Star Flag design dates back to 1838 and was officially approved in January 1839.

Posted by: Michael the Hobbit at April 04, 2015 11:20 AM (0RdKg)

129 I know they did in Rome, and eventually took Rome over.

Maybe I misunderstood you, but Christians in Rome were working hard in their communities to help the people around them in need, spread the gospel, work hard, and show love. They didn't retreat to a Christian colony and work only with each other.

We tried that in the 20th century and things went to hell because we failed in our duty to be salt and light.

I have children, and I'm sure as hell not going to surrender.

This isn't about surrender, its about reacting intelligently to a building that's on fire and falling to pieces around your ears. Hint: the right response is not "if we just paint the walls and replace those drapes everything will be fine!"

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 04, 2015 11:21 AM (39g3+)

130 123 Posted by: toby928(C) at April 04, 2015 11:19 AM (rwI+c)

Indeed I can be happy with little, and if anything the corrupt Latin shithole we're about to become won't be as efficient a police state as what we're becoming....

125 Posted by: Edmund Burke's Shade, languishing in Krazyfornia at April 04, 2015 11:19 AM (cmBvC)

Japan is England with Tentacle porn....

Hell were I a decade younger I'd consider going to Japan to haul garbage.

Posted by: Sven S Blade a.k.a. El Assassin@sven10077 at April 04, 2015 11:21 AM (/4AZU)

131 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbJcQYVtZMo

FLASH MOB!!!

Posted by: MachiasPrivateer at April 04, 2015 11:21 AM (EMi53)

132 I like the way Mistress Overdone thinks.

So much better than "Oh, hey. Woe is me and woe is US, man! Let's toast to the end of all things good, and pretend that we gain some kind of inner peace in doing so."

I mean, eventually that just gets old.

Posted by: Mr. Estrada at April 04, 2015 11:22 AM (oE6t1)

133 To keep busy pushing the rock up the hill for a little gain to only see it roll back down and to start again is my definition of hell.

To do the same thing over and over and not really expecting anything different.

The event horizon is behind us now. No one can say we can't rise again, that is unknowable but we do have the blood of patriots still flowing here in the USA and we are an exceptional people.

So if it is going to burn I have no control over that but if it must then let it be now rather than later.

Posted by: just bob at April 04, 2015 11:22 AM (WNERA)

134 I have children, and I'm sure as hell not going to surrender.

Do you pay taxes?
Is your idea of resistance 'voting against the democrats'?

Then you've surrendered.

Posted by: Methos at April 04, 2015 11:22 AM (ZbV+0)

135 Just a fantastic post. Reminds me of my favorite line from Parenthood. At no point, do you ever get to spike the ball in the end zone. It just keeps going, forever and ever.

Posted by: JT in KC at April 04, 2015 11:22 AM (vX/iq)

136 120 Many conservatives I know talk up how they will continue to fight the good fight, not all is lost, etc. etc.
Yet when I suggest the first step they might take is to pull their kids out of the public education system there are a myriad of reasons that's impossible. Even suggested it to an early retiree for his grandkids as he had all the time in the world. An emphatic no was his answer as we sat in the sun drinking our morning coffee, complaining about the deteriorating state of affairs in the country. Personally I'm tired of hearing it.
Posted by: Carl at April 04, 2015 11:18 AM (6V26t)

__________

Ask a "conservative" 70 year old whether or not it's a good idea to privatize SS.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at April 04, 2015 11:23 AM (0LHZx)

137 Yesterday.... Girl at Taco Bell had to call a manager over because when I
gave her a 20 to pay for my meal, she punched in a 10... and couldn't
figure out to just give me 10 extra dollars...

White, probably Senior in High School....

Stupid is strong. And these are people who have trained themselves to it, because they have no interest in intellectual activity. They fill themselves with bread and circuses and blithely wait for the next.

Posted by: Zap Rowsdower at April 04, 2015 11:23 AM (MMC8r)

138 I believe perhaps wrongly that many have views depending on their personal situations.
do you have money, you always have a plan b, you may be able to try to escpae the burning.
if you have none and have children and grand children you might not inticipate the burning in a positive fashion, because Children.

The only thing i have come up with is deFund the left.
I can do my part but my part, no cable, (no mredia freebe) , no movies, etc. doesn't touch it. and what about internet? this is the only mass communication deal and it looks like that is also that leadership is also funding the left.(remembering Brendan Eich )

what we do need are actual goals.
plans that we can all contribute to.

Posted by: comrade willow at April 04, 2015 11:23 AM (nqBYe)

139 If only the progressives had taken this advice when they set out to remake America 100 years ago their project would have never gotten off the ground!

Alas, we are apparently not made of stiffer stuff.

Dave makes an excellent case for conservatives to serve as nothing more than the conscious of the GOP, restraining their more statists impulses in their competition with the progressives. And if a long the way we are rewarded with a few table scraps, well then, so much the better.

It's certainly an option but I'll pass.

Posted by: DrewM. at April 04, 2015 11:24 AM (64tBw)

140 anticipate*

Posted by: comrade willow at April 04, 2015 11:24 AM (nqBYe)

141 Right on, brother.

Posted by: Wtp at April 04, 2015 11:24 AM (8CYQ6)

142 I'd rather ask them how much interest we are earning on the money in the SS "lockbox".

Posted by: Edmund Burke's Shade, languishing in Krazyfornia at April 04, 2015 11:24 AM (cmBvC)

143 What we need to do is stop working with businesses that are donating money to the very entities that want to strip people of their god given freedom!

I agree with and sympathize with that in principle but in reality... you can't do that. We don't live in a world where businesses are neatly isolated by ideology and compartmentalized. Memories Pizza probably gets their flour from a company that donates to leftist causes. Your Christian florist gets cellophane from a company that is a huge Democrat donor. You cannot pick and choose that way.

When its obvious and easy? Sure. But we don't live in a world where there are very many obvious, easy choices.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 04, 2015 11:25 AM (39g3+)

144 No matter how good a job we do, cutting, weeding, trimming and edging, next week the grass needs to be cut again. And the following week, and the one after that. Forever.
----------------------

That. A never ending task.

I often use the necktie analogy. Like most men who are , or were, in the polite business world, I have a nice selection of ties. I appreciate them, and a coat and tie are essentially mandatory in most circumstances.

I do not mind that, as they add something to appearance, and a person's attention to their personal appearance bespeaks their likely attention to other aspects of their conduct. I expect some protest over that comment, but there it is.

Having said that...., I regard our lawn/yard in the same context. When things are neat, properly groomed, as it were, then there is a large degree of satisfaction. But, aside from keeping the dirt in place, it is simply a fairly empty cosmetic that is a PIA to maintain. I wonder if I would do it at all if left to my own devices. Probably not.

Same with the necktie. It's a bit of a pain to wear, and requires care and some expense.

Still..., underlying all of this is a general analogy of civilized society. The struggle against our base instincts is the struggle to maintain polite, civil society. In both of the instant cases, it is a struggle against sloth and disorder. It is at least a superficial effort to say that we care about ourselves and our surroundings, and this is how we demonstrate that.

Whenever Steve Jobs strode out on stage wearing blue jeans and a turtleneck my assessment of the guy dropped a few points. Sure, he was making a statement to his hipster followers, but that is a statement in and of itself. While others ooohed and ahhhed over the latest iGadget, what I thought of were Lisa and Next. But I digress.

Time to go out and finish the lawn.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at April 04, 2015 11:25 AM (vPh3W)

145 weirddaves ending is another version of Candides "we must tend our garden, it's the only way to be happy"

Posted by: Bigby's Karate Chop at April 04, 2015 11:25 AM (sF6gZ)

146 The Republicans are the tax collectors of the Welfare State. At best, they make it almost work. They are not The Revolution.

Posted by: toby928(C) at April 04, 2015 11:25 AM (rwI+c)

147 Most Americans are stupid. Socialism is appealing to stupid people. After all, you get to do nothing all day and the govt sends you free shit. What's not to love.

I'm not sure how you fight back against this.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at April 04, 2015 11:26 AM (0LHZx)

148 Edmund

I agree that part of the reason for ridiculous immigration rates is due to cheap labor. Yes, this is true, and big business and small business alike are complicit in selfishly importing a lot of future problems into our country simply because they want to pay someone $8.00 bucks an hour instead of $10.00. But this is just businesses' excuse. This is the excuse of the Chamber of Commerce. The excuse for the big central planners is that we have low birth rates and we can not sustain our social security system unless we have more workers to support the aging. In addition, you have the leftists that want more immigrants, specifically immigrants from leftist-leaning nations, so they can make sure that they can get the votes. There are a lot of forces at work trying to bring as many Hispanics into the country as possible. They all might have different reasons, but the end result is the same: a fractured country. If anyone says anything about this they are labeled a racist and completely maligned.

Posted by: Mistress Overdone at April 04, 2015 11:26 AM (2/oBD)

149 Count de Monet @ 88: "So the rallying cry is 'We Can't Win!' ???"

There is no rallying cry. What we stand for defies a unifying inspirational message, and there's certainly no manifesto. Those are their advantages. They tout "equality" and "fairness" as their vision and end goals. They also make great use of symbols, colors (Columbia blue seems to be a favorite lately), typefaces, etc.

What do we have? Well, you have whatever is important in the House of Monet, and I have the affairs of CasaHorse to look after. In short, WE don't have anything. But each one of us has a lawn, and any one of can say "Get off my lawn" to whomever we wish.

Posted by: Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant at April 04, 2015 11:26 AM (wdXFj)

150 138 Posted by: comrade willow at April 04, 2015 11:23 AM (nqBYe)

Comrade Willow I am weaning myself from social media and house hunting....

I am wondering if you recall the row Ace and I got into when I was saying we need to follow the Black model ala "Jet, Ebony, and BET?"

Fact is the simple refusal of a whole to peruse the wares of the "other" is an old and brutally effective economic model....

Life does not need to be "bad" in the "ghetto" and honestly will at a minimum aid the divorce I think liberty achingly needs.

Simply refusing to aid the left is step one and the GOP either needs to lead, follow, or get the fuck out of the way from the right drawing blood with counterpunching.

Posted by: Sven S Blade a.k.a. El Assassin@sven10077 at April 04, 2015 11:27 AM (/4AZU)

151 (Sock. That's twice today.)

Posted by: FireHorse at April 04, 2015 11:27 AM (wdXFj)

152 The only businesses that will survive in such an environment are the
ones that make the best friends and work closest with the people who
have the money and write the laws. Such an environment makes cronyism worse, not better.

Probably. Though both groups become ever smaller which makes popular opposition to them easier. But what I was arguing against was the earlier point that raising taxes just gives government more money to work with, and we know that's not the case.

Posted by: Methos at April 04, 2015 11:27 AM (ZbV+0)

153 Wonderful essay, thank you.

Posted by: rrpjr at April 04, 2015 11:27 AM (s/yC1)

154 No we aren't, but by all means go on trying to think
for us since you're clearly smarter than any of us. Just like the rest
of the left.
Posted by: Methos at April 04, 2015 11:04 AM (ZbV+0)

Ad hominem. 3 yard penalty

So, where is your fire proof room, sir? How will you escape the furnace?

Posted by: Kindltot at April 04, 2015 11:28 AM (t//F+)

155 This isn't about surrender, its about reacting intelligently to a
building that's on fire and falling to pieces around your ears. Hint:
the right response is not "if we just paint the walls and replace those
drapes everything will be fine!"

No, the right response is to put out the damned fire. If we can save the front half of the building, it's easier to rebuild than if the whole thing burns down.If the whole thing is a loss, then start hosing down the buildings next door so they don't catch too.

Posted by: Weirddave at April 04, 2015 11:28 AM (WvS3w)

156 Could I interest any of you in another promise to repeal Obamacare?

Posted by: John Boner in Assless Chaps at April 04, 2015 11:29 AM (lG2E3)

157 The Czech Republic did a fair job of rising from the ashes and in a generation too.

East Germany found a way with help.

Collapse isn't inevitable for death and destruction. Hard times though of course.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at April 04, 2015 11:29 AM (ODxAs)

158 No, the right response is to put out the damned fire.

Sorry, the water is turned off for non-payment.

*I hate analogies.

Posted by: toby928(C) at April 04, 2015 11:29 AM (rwI+c)

159 While I think the cause is more or less doomed, I'm also not as pessimistic as what will follow. After all, living in France or England isn't exactly living in 3rd World squalor. France/England have lower standards of living than us, but it's not Mad Max either. And that's putting aside the Muslim invasion of those two countries, I'm talking only about the socialist aspect of those 2 countries.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at April 04, 2015 11:30 AM (0LHZx)

160 Yet when I suggest the first step they might take is to pull their kids out of the public education system there are a myriad of reasons that's impossible.

I agree with this and this:

Ask a "conservative" 70 year old whether or not it's a good idea to privatize SS.

Too many people in the Tea Party movement were all about the small government and lower taxes until it became a burden to them or touched social security. Then suddenly they turned into Nancy Pelosi.

Conservatism is hard to live out, it requires personal effort and sacrifice, it requires work and risk. You can't have it both ways, you cannot have smaller government that still takes care of you.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 04, 2015 11:30 AM (39g3+)

161 139 Posted by: DrewM. at April 04, 2015 11:24 AM (64tBw)

Amen....

the left started walking as a one man band for Gramsci and eventually managed to get the whole town to follow him asking why....

now they are the Free Shit Army with 1/3d to 2/3ds their membership not understanding WHY they are in the parade in the first place....

The United States needs to either reject authoritarian socialism or needs broken up as peacefully as possible.

The Constitution and Bill of Rights are not "optional" they are the contract cut for the state's existence.

Posted by: Sven S Blade a.k.a. El Assassin@sven10077 at April 04, 2015 11:30 AM (/4AZU)

162 No, the right response is to put out the damned fire.

Yes, yes, every analogy is flawed but when you're honest, you'll understand my point. The building is past saving. Get out. Rebuild once you're clear.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 04, 2015 11:31 AM (39g3+)

163 The unthinking Taco Bell girl reminds me of a story when I was in high school.

I worked at an ice cream shop. One day a lady came in with her kids and ordered a few ice cream cones but her card wouldn't work. I just punched in my employee code to give her the free ice cream I got each day I worked (yay, benefits!) and sent her on her way. She was of course, really thankful, and came back later that day and gave me a $20 tip.

Well my fascist high school manager did not like that at all. "You can't do that!" he sputtered. "Nothing in the employee handbook says anything about it." I replied because I am a smart ass.

But when she came back to give me that tip, the asshole was adamant that I put it into the community chest to be divided among all the employees, despite the fact that she gave it to *me*.

I'm sure he's a good little liberal asshole somewhere these days.

Posted by: Lauren at April 04, 2015 11:32 AM (MYCIw)

164 155 Posted by: Weirddave at April 04, 2015 11:28 AM (WvS3w)

Dave 50% of the firefighters are using flamethrowers not hoses...

half of *our* 50% are willfully ignoring that fact...

I'll put the hose on *my* house first now comrade.

Posted by: Sven S Blade a.k.a. El Assassin@sven10077 at April 04, 2015 11:32 AM (/4AZU)

165
Dave makes an excellent case for conservatives to serve as nothing more than the conscious of the GOP, restraining their more statists impulses in their competition with the progressives.
Posted by: DrewM.

Jiminy Cricket Conservatives (tm)

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at April 04, 2015 11:33 AM (kdS6q)

166 I think people on this thread are talking past one another to a fair degree. There seem to be two discussions going on, the first with two positions, the second with three:

Discussion 1: Do we stay with the GOP or not? Position 1: No. Position 2: Yes.

Discussion 2: Do we *give up* or not? Position 1: "Yeah! Giving up is awesome! Embrace the Pessimism Chic, dudes! It's fun. You get to be all tragic and act like the Goth Kids from South Park and shit!" Position 2: "Eh, we'll rebuild after the collapse. No biggie." Position 3: "The 'collapse' has essentially already happened. Look after the damned tribe, undermine and sap the vitality of the dominant culture when and where we can. We'll weather it."

I am completely uninterested in the fist discussion, and I am one of maybe two people who take the third position in the second discussion.

Posted by: Mr. Estrada at April 04, 2015 11:33 AM (oE6t1)

167 we suck we're fucked and resistance is futile?

Your halftime locker room motivational speech might need a bit of tweaking.

just sayin'

Posted by: TangoNine at April 04, 2015 11:33 AM (x3YFz)

168 Welfare did much to remove the consequences of idiocy, making it a much more appealing option to prospective idiots.

Posted by: Zap Rowsdower at April 04, 2015 11:33 AM (MMC8r)

169 105 Mistress Overdone, where do you live? Just generally; I'm not asking for your home address.
Posted by: rickl at April 04, 2015 11:13 AM (sdi6R)

...'Cause if you were in my area I'd be asking you for a date.

Posted by: rickl at April 04, 2015 11:33 AM (sdi6R)

170 Posted by: Lauren at April 04, 2015 11:32 AM (MYCIw)

__________

Lauren, come on. That's like the #1 rule of all food service. Tips are shared. All tips, all the time.

I tended bar in college and had I tried to pull something like that I would have probably been beaten up by the bar-backs, busboys and dishwashers.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at April 04, 2015 11:34 AM (0LHZx)

171
Stop just a sec and reflect if you would on the precepts and ideals that allowed us to become the STILL most exceptional country on the planet.

This I call the bedrock.

Still there, and it's going nowhere, that genie cannot be put back.

Want the ideal to rebuild and attain that shining city?

We have it in print. That system WORKS.

We can change things and wash the layer of filth away, it must start at the LOCAL level. All flows from this.

So get involved, because you CAN effect change.

I could fill the page with this rant--but it would be tl/dr, so I'll simply say my effort is directed where I live.

Posted by: irongrampa at April 04, 2015 11:35 AM (jeCnD)

172 Ask a "conservative" 70 year old whether or not it's a good idea to privatize SS.

It's understandable tough to get people to agree to get nothing for all the money stolen from them. Personally, I want at least ten cents on the dollar.

Posted by: toby928(C) at April 04, 2015 11:35 AM (rwI+c)

173 I forgot to actually tie that story to the taco bell girl. Seriously. Need coffee.

My point is that it's possible the girl wasn't stupid, but was afraid to deviate at all from any corporate policies because we're all expected to be mindless drones with no critical thinking skills these days.

I'm not sure which one is more depressing.

Posted by: Lauren at April 04, 2015 11:35 AM (MYCIw)

174 Christopher Taylor,

No, not all businesses are that obvious, but many are. Furthermore, when you have the option of hiring a conservative over a radical lefty, hire the con. That is what the radical lefties do in their businesses. In addition, going out of our way to NOT hire or support any radical lefties is the very least that we can do. Don't hire someone that has an Obama sticker on their car. Period. We should pay attention to such details. The left certainly does. Lefties don't even associate with people that don't vote and think like them. In some industries you are black listed completely if you are not a leftist Democrat.

You can buy a booklet that shows you what companies donate to which political causes. I use it, and so should you. Do not be naive. If any leftist knew you were a conservative they might very well attack your business or you as a person. Just look what happened to that CEO that donated a pittance of money to Prop 8. Why treat them any differently? The leftists have no compunction about nationalizing everything. Trust me, they would be happy to take every thing that you own and leave you destitute. They would also be quite happy to put you in a re-education camp or put you in blind folded in front of a wall. History has shown us that over and over again. Don't be naive, and don't finance your own demise.

Posted by: Mistress Overdone at April 04, 2015 11:35 AM (2/oBD)

175 "Collapse isn't inevitable for death and destruction. Hard times though of course."

But not unhappy or unfulfilled times. Kids will play, people will laugh and young people will fall in love. A quality life isn't always about a better standard of living.

Posted by: lowandslow at April 04, 2015 11:35 AM (OBbk5)

176 I disagree that the two parties would fight for the right.

When the conservatives leave the republicans, they will drift even farther to the left. The democrats will then drift to full on communism. So I think the democrats will lose their more classical liberals to the republicans. I envision a pretty even split in party membership. We will actually have a far bigger voice in government than we do now.

1. Communist Party
2. The old democrat party of the 50s-60s.
3. A new conservative/libertarian party.

Posted by: Jukin Former Republican at April 04, 2015 11:35 AM (WGm5T)

177 "Yeah! Giving up is awesome! Embrace the Pessimism Chic, dudes! It's fun. You get to be all tragic and act like the Goth Kids from South Park and shit!"

This is what's know as the "straw man" position, which nobody actually holds, but some seem to think is the only alternative to theirs.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 04, 2015 11:35 AM (39g3+)

178 166 Posted by: Mr. Estrada at April 04, 2015 11:33 AM (oE6t1)

If we start arguing vociferously *our tribe* is hard-working frugal capitalists rather than "evil white folk" we will be in a stronger position.

I will go to my cremation and afterlife hating the left for trying to create racial splits rather than the ideological battlefield we were predicated on.

American civics are supposed to be predicated on differences in creed not tribal identity based on sex, or race.

Posted by: Sven S Blade a.k.a. El Assassin@sven10077 at April 04, 2015 11:36 AM (/4AZU)

179 Become insular and aloof--why didn't we think of this before?! Let's ask our Amish overlords for permission to do this, stat!

Posted by: jwpaine at April 04, 2015 11:36 AM (a3NCX)

180 So, where is your fire proof room, sir? How will you escape the furnace?

I don't much plan to. If an opportunity arises I'll take it.

Posted by: Methos at April 04, 2015 11:36 AM (ZbV+0)

181 toby928: "I hate analogies."

It helps if you think of an analogy like a tea kettle. ...

Posted by: FireHorse at April 04, 2015 11:37 AM (wdXFj)

182 BTW for myself I'm no longer interested *as much* in a person's ideological roots but in their actions.

I'd prefer they be conservative, sure. but I'm primarily interested in associating with DIY types, makers, bootstrappers. anybody who disdains both wage and welfare slavery.

and i was serious about that biafra remark.

Posted by: Bigby's Karate Chop at April 04, 2015 11:37 AM (t305G)

183 172 Ask a "conservative" 70 year old whether or not it's a good idea to privatize SS.

It's understandable tough to get people to agree to get nothing for all the money stolen from them. Personally, I want at least ten cents on the dollar.
Posted by: toby928(C) at April 04, 2015 11:35 AM (rwI+c)

_________

I get why old "conservatives" don't want to get rid of SS. But then shut the fuck up about everything else. What they're saying is cut spending everywhere, except where I am affected. God forbid I only play golf 3 times a week instead of 5 times a week.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at April 04, 2015 11:37 AM (0LHZx)

184 If only the progressives had taken this advice when they set out to
remake America 100 years ago their project would have never gotten off
the ground!

The Progressives did exactly what I'm proposing! They kept pushing the rock down the hill, and when a Coolidge pushed it back up, they went right on pushing. They didn't give up and say "Prosperity is inevitable, sucks to be us!" Now look where we are.

The difference is that they were trying to infect a healthy body, which is a whole lot easier than healing a sick one. They had more time, and more options. We don't.

Posted by: Weirddave at April 04, 2015 11:37 AM (WvS3w)

185 "This is what's know as the "straw man" position, which nobody actually holds, but some seem to think is the only alternative to theirs."

You're right. Total straw man position. There's no way the Pessimism Chic that's routinely shit out into the comments section could reasonably be interpreted the way I've interpreted it. My bad.

Posted by: Mr. Estrada at April 04, 2015 11:38 AM (oE6t1)

186 171 Posted by: irongrampa at April 04, 2015 11:35 AM (jeCnD)

and I am certain that your progeny have been raised to cleave towards those ideas IG.....

Fact is folk like us are the best shot at getting back what we're losing and to "get it back" we need to go ahead and allow the crash.

Posted by: Sven S Blade a.k.a. El Assassin@sven10077 at April 04, 2015 11:38 AM (/4AZU)

187 "Lauren, come on. That's like the #1 rule of all food service. Tips are shared. All tips, all the time. "

Trevor, is that you?

Posted by: Lauren at April 04, 2015 11:38 AM (MYCIw)

188 A low key pleasant and mellow way of saying we have to get back on the wagon taking us to the camps and keep voting for the bastards that want to send us there.

Not gonna happen with me.

See a lot of you all are (to me) newbies. You still have hope, you still have faith, you still think you can turn these bastards and the system around as is.

Bless your hearts, it ain't gonna happen. I've watched these fcukers for 50+ years now.

They HATED Reagan (and even Saint Ron was not the paragon he's made out to be) They despised Goldwater. Given the chance they ran roughshod over our rights and looted the treasury. (I still wonder about the so called Savings and Loan Crisis that came just as we were going to experience the cold war ending economy boom and btw where did all the money suddenly come from for all of that?)

It's built into the system by time. After enough time a group becomes part of ruling order and any new members become subsumed or are cast out.

Anyone running for President is suspect. Because words aren't worth the paper they're not printed on. Actions and deeds are what speak to the truth of someone's soul.

None, repeat none of the candidates can be said to be guaranteed to perform as stated. Nor will they.

Only by severe action and separation from the age old channels of money flowing to those entrusted to write the laws will be the only temporary answer. I say temporary as in 10 - 20 years tops before they too will become suspect of corruption and maybe less because things happen faster these days.

So NO. The fear of Hillary or Warren don't have any effect on me. Nor the threats of liberals on the Supreme court.

Because THAT'S WHAT WE HAVE NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That at April 04, 2015 11:39 AM (zRby/)

189 Thank God we have Moo to tell us all how wrong we are, as usual.

Posted by: ffs at April 04, 2015 11:39 AM (4zh46)

190 "If we start arguing vociferously *our tribe* is hard-working frugal capitalists rather than "evil white folk" we will be in a stronger position."

Yeah, I got no beef with that.

Posted by: Mr. Estrada at April 04, 2015 11:40 AM (oE6t1)

191 "We need to get back to having larger families with more than the typical two kids. More like 8 kids, like people used to have."

Except for some beaches in Hawaii, the US isn't adding any more land area. Every additional person added to the population has to squeeze in with others, or we have to remove more acreage from the non-human world. Eventually the non-human world will be destroyed and it will be New Jersey style sprawl coast-to-coast. Ask the Chinese what it's like to have 1.2 billion people in the same land area as the US. Eventually population growth has to stop. Trying to out-breed the welfare class is a losing proposition.

Posted by: despair at April 04, 2015 11:40 AM (J6suc)

192 No, not all businesses are that obvious, but many are. Furthermore, when you have the option of hiring a conservative over a radical lefty, hire the con.

I agree, and wherever possible we should be doing this - and I suspect are - but conservatives do tend toward market rather than political solutions.

For example, you have two choices:
-Chance Beachporpoise, genius accountant who shows up on time every day but is a huge lefty
-Billy Bob McCultry, who has an IQ of 89 and shows up for work when he hasn't been drinking all night at the country and western bar, but is a conservative.

...which is the better hire?

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 04, 2015 11:40 AM (39g3+)

193 There's no way the Pessimism Chic that's routinely shit out into the comments section could reasonably be interpreted the way I've interpreted it. My bad.

Reasonably? No. Predictably? Sure.

Posted by: toby928(C) at April 04, 2015 11:40 AM (rwI+c)

194 189 Thank God we have Moo to tell us all how wrong we are, as usual.
Posted by: ffs at April 04, 2015 11:39 AM (4zh46)

_________

Where did I say you're wrong? Geez dude, grow some thicker skin. I'm agreeing in principle that the GOP is useless, liberalism can't be stopped and best you can do is try to live you life within that context.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at April 04, 2015 11:40 AM (0LHZx)

195 "Eventually the non-human world will be destroyed and it will be New Jersey style sprawl coast-to-coast. "

Overpopulation is a myth. We are at far greater risk of population collapse.

Posted by: Lauren at April 04, 2015 11:41 AM (MYCIw)

196 "If we start arguing vociferously *our tribe* is hard-working frugal capitalists rather than "evil white folk" we will be in a stronger position."

___________

And then you're mocked as "job creators". Read comments on any story dealing with taxes or minimum wage and "job creator" is a 4 letter word to liberals.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at April 04, 2015 11:42 AM (0LHZx)

197 195 Posted by: Lauren at April 04, 2015 11:41 AM (MYCIw)

If the animals can't make it on the 66% of land the US government owns...

they're fucked anyway....

The US population could fit at Shanghai density on 10% our land.

Posted by: Sven S Blade a.k.a. El Assassin@sven10077 at April 04, 2015 11:42 AM (/4AZU)

198 No, the right response is to put out the damned fire.

Yes, yes, every analogy is flawed but when you're honest, you'll
understand my point. The building is past saving. Get out. Rebuild
once you're clear.

How many firefighters went into the towers on 9/11? I suppose it was the reasonable thing to do since their experience was exactly that, you fight the fire and save the building.

When the first tower came down, they realized that wasn't an option and ordered the second evacuated. As I recall, and someone can correct me if I'm wrong, not everyone got out of the second, so the lesson, even learned, was learned to late.

Not every building can be saved.

Posted by: Methos at April 04, 2015 11:42 AM (ZbV+0)

199 Lauren, come on. That's like the #1 rule of all food service. Tips are shared. All tips, all the time.

I tended bar in college and had I tried to pull something like that I
would have probably been beaten up by the bar-backs, busboys and
dishwashers.

Like fuck they are. I've QUIT jobs that had that attitude. Tips are my reward for my hard work. What I tip out to my support staff is their reward for working hard for me.

I guess you're a redistributionalist at heart, then?

Posted by: Weirddave at April 04, 2015 11:43 AM (WvS3w)

200 Lauren, come on. That's like the #1 rule of all food service. Tips are shared. All tips, all the time.

As much as it pains me to agree, Moo is right here.

Not that this changes my secret crush on Lauren.

...did I say that out loud?

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 04, 2015 11:43 AM (39g3+)

201 191
Trying to out-breed the welfare class is a losing proposition.

Posted by: despair at April 04, 2015 11:40 AM (J6suc)

Eliminate welfare, and let Darwin sort 'em out.

Posted by: rickl at April 04, 2015 11:43 AM (sdi6R)

202 Trying to out-breed the welfare class is a losing proposition.
Posted by: despair at April 04, 2015 11:40 AM (J6suc)
---
Self-basting turkeys. I have a modest proposal...

Posted by: Jonathan Swift at April 04, 2015 11:43 AM (KH1sk)

203 We're gonna stop Obama's illegal immigration policies. Really. Just stick with the GOP.

Posted by: Bitch McConnell with a Dick in His Mouth at April 04, 2015 11:43 AM (lG2E3)

204 Posted by: rickl at April 04, 2015 10:35 AM (sdi6R)

Get out the liquid weed killer. Kill the lawn too.

I'm in the process of turning a section of difficult to mow and keep looking nice into a rock garden (of sorts).

It ain't cheap and it's hard work but when I'm done I won't have to struggle to keep that area trim.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That at April 04, 2015 11:43 AM (zRby/)

205 "Eventually the non-human world will be destroyed and it will be New Jersey style sprawl coast-to-coast. "

Coincidentally, the entire population of the Earth could fit in Texas, if it was as dense as Hoboken.

Posted by: toby928(C) at April 04, 2015 11:43 AM (rwI+c)

206
the Pessimism Chic that's routinely shit out into the comments section
Posted by: Mr. Estrada

http://tinyurl.com/qcjssch

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at April 04, 2015 11:44 AM (kdS6q)

207 Mr. Moo Moo -

Are you ethnically Polish?

(I'm asking because I knew a guy who went by "Moo Moo" who was an ethnically Polish person guy in the Northeast US. No names; not here. Just wondering if you're him.)

Posted by: FireHorse at April 04, 2015 11:44 AM (wdXFj)

208 "Not every building can be saved."

They knew that before they went into the first building. According to the rules, they shouldn't have gone in at all, but they did because they thought that they could save people, even if they couldn't save the building. They went in knowing it was likely a suicide mission.

Posted by: Lauren at April 04, 2015 11:44 AM (MYCIw)

209 196 Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at April 04, 2015 11:42 AM (0LHZx)

Which is why I advocate letting the car crash, the nation break up and starting over...

I am through trying to convince cocksuckers who think Apple's 21% profit margin is okay "b/c justice" but Wal-Mart is evil w/3% "b/c sprawl" of anything....

I'll outlast them and take what I can through honest work and trade.

The left better pray the right simply lets it burn b/c I fight the urge to make it burn.

Posted by: Sven S Blade a.k.a. El Assassin@sven10077 at April 04, 2015 11:44 AM (/4AZU)

210 So essentially we have been reduced to this as our battle cry....

We have no chance, but fight anyway because we might be able to slow our enemies down for a little while!

Swell.

Posted by: Dan at April 04, 2015 11:44 AM (COpZ4)

211 And I'm with Lauren on this communal tip jar nonsense.

Posted by: All Hail Eris at April 04, 2015 11:45 AM (KH1sk)

212 I will go to my cremation and afterlife hating the left for trying to create racial splits

{rather than the ideological battlefield we were predicated on.}

American civics are supposed to be predicated on differences in creed not tribal identity based on sex, or race.
Posted by: Sven S Blade a.k.a. El Assassin@sven10077 at April 04, 2015 11:36 AM (/4AZ

hear-hear ! this has disturbed me to no end.

Posted by: comrade willow at April 04, 2015 11:45 AM (nqBYe)

213 Trying to out-breed the welfare class is a losing proposition.

They have nothing else to do, no compunction about doing it, no care when they do, and simply get the rest of people to pay for it when they do.

The other side, instead, has to bear the burden of their own decisions AND theirs.

Posted by: Zap Rowsdower at April 04, 2015 11:45 AM (MMC8r)

214 "We don't win. The forces of human nature and history will are against us. So, we don't win."

"Eh, you know, this pessimism is kind of old."

"Pessimism? Psh. What pessimism? How boringly predictable of you."

Posted by: Mr. Estrada at April 04, 2015 11:45 AM (oE6t1)

215 Except for some beaches in Hawaii, the US isn't adding any more land area. Every additional person added to the population has to squeeze in with others, or we have to remove more acreage from the non-human world.

I shall repeat this once again:

We can fit the entire population of THE PLANET EARTH into the borders of Texas with the same population density as many cities around the world. That's every single living human being on the planet.

We're not running out of space and we need more Americans to be born, particularly conservatives. Do with less, have more kids, for our future. Raise them at home, don't send them to school. Sadly this isn't an option for me but surely it is for others here.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 04, 2015 11:46 AM (39g3+)

216 this is what community agitators 'do'.

we shouldn't be surprised why he was 'brought'

Posted by: comrade willow at April 04, 2015 11:46 AM (nqBYe)

217 This post. Bookmark this post.

When you get sulky and tempted to swoon over Rod Dreher's ridiculous Benedict Option, the social conservative version of the penis pump - feels just like social conservatism, and good, too! - go back and read this post. Ace.

Posted by: Peter at April 04, 2015 11:47 AM (GjcK8)

218 Like fuck they are. I've QUIT jobs that had that attitude. Tips are my reward for my hard work. What I tip out to my support staff is their reward for working hard for me.

I guess you're a redistributionalist at heart, then?
Posted by: Weirddave at April 04, 2015 11:43 AM (WvS3w)

__________

Heh. It's funny how I'm the resident evil heartless asshole here, yet I get bitch slapped because I shared tips with the support staff.

I worked at a bunch of bars, restaurants, coffee shops, whatever in my high school/college days and every single one of them worked like that. And I was also at the top of the chain and at the very bottom of the chain. When I was at the bottom, I was glad to get some crumbs from the top. When I was at the top, I didn't mind throwing some crumbs down since I knew what it was like.

Had the govt made these rules, hell yeah I'd be opposed. But these were rules made within the establishment itself. If I didn't like it, I knew where the door was. Isn't that what conservatives always say...if you don't like your job, go get a new one?

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at April 04, 2015 11:48 AM (0LHZx)

219 We'd have to define what "burning down" looks like. We are in uncharted territory with debt and the burning of our currencies. Many structures will remain, but what if the government just declares bankruptcy on foreign debt, reneges on bond debts? And then we adjust all our elder care entitlements.

A lot of things will change if we get some sort of "collapse" in out markets, as we seem DOOMed to do in time, at least at some level. Those are different "let it burn" scenarios than a nuke, or global war, or invasion of illegals.

Considering $100T+ in unfunded liabilities, and $600T+ in unregulated derivative markets ... the financial world is already burning. But no one is foreclosing yet, much.

Posted by: Illiniwek at April 04, 2015 11:48 AM (QGjci)

220 I'd rather ask them how much interest we are earning on the money in the SS "lockbox".
Posted by: Edmund
---------------------

The very same people who were virulently, stridently against allowing The People to invest their own SS money in the open market place. are the same people who crow about how well Wall Street as done during the Obama years.

At the midpoint of Bush's Presidency , Jan. of 2005, the Dow was at 10,717. The Dow now (however fragile) is at 17,763. So..., to make this simple, lets just add a zero to those and imagine that they represent my SS fund, i.e., $107,717 and $170,763. Roughly then, it would be worth 70% more than it is now.

Thank heavens the squalling corrupt Democrats saved me from that. Five times Bush went to Congress with SS reformation proposals. Five times they snubbed the idea..., to save us from our own bad judgement.

It's all somewhat moot, of course..., because the $107K wasn't there at all. It still isn't.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at April 04, 2015 11:48 AM (vPh3W)

221 I have no issue sharing tips, but if you are going to yell at me for doing an action, you don't get to collect on the profits of that action. Of course, he ran that place like JWest runs his condo board, so that incident wasn't exactly out of the ordinary.

I had no issue sharing tips with the other girls I worked with, just not King Asshole Supreme Ruler of The Slab.

Posted by: Lauren at April 04, 2015 11:48 AM (MYCIw)

222 Great post. As said above, stand and fight.

Posted by: Viking at April 04, 2015 11:49 AM (BFRrE)

223 The reason many service industries that accept tips share tips is because everyone was part of the service. The cooks made the food, the busboys cleaned up after, the bartender poured the shots, the hostess greeted and sat the guests while looking cute and trying to puzzle out what letter comes after "C" in the alphabet, etc. Everyone pitched in, everyone gets some of the tips.

Its not communism, its just a recognition that the customer is part of a team effort, not just one person.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 04, 2015 11:50 AM (39g3+)

224 207 Mr. Moo Moo -

Are you ethnically Polish?

(I'm asking because I knew a guy who went by "Moo Moo" who was an ethnically Polish person guy in the Northeast US. No names; not here. Just wondering if you're him.)
Posted by: FireHorse at April 04, 2015 11:44 AM (wdXFj)

______________

My dad is Mr WASP McWASPY and my mother is a mix of a bunch of shit. Probably a but of Polish in there.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at April 04, 2015 11:50 AM (0LHZx)

225 I suppose it's entertaining in a sick sort of way to keep saying "we're fucked". But it pisses me off.

What do you think when you're looking at your children? Are you going to tell them "I'm out of here, you're fucked"?

The model for the way out is, believe it or not, Rosa Parks and MLK for starters. Patrick Henry if it comes to it, which it probably will.

Posted by: Bat Chain Puller at April 04, 2015 11:50 AM (jpc8l)

226 moo moo is still here? after last night's ass kicking.

Wow.

Dude is totally immune to criticism. Sounds good on the surface but it's like that thing where a few people can't feel pain.

Eventually someone's going to walk up to you and go: "Dude. You have 3 feet of rebar stuck in your face. Yer probably going to die."

Posted by: TangoNine at April 04, 2015 11:51 AM (x3YFz)

227
I understand the let it burn thing--absolutely cannot embrace it--means quitting on my country in my eyes.

So I say BULLSHIT--I AM GONNA WIN.

If not me personally, then one just like me at a future date.

What the country was built on is too strong to remain throttled.

Posted by: irongrampa at April 04, 2015 11:51 AM (jeCnD)

228 Great Britain once held domain over so much of the world that it could be accurately said "The Sun Never Sets on the British Empire"

You know, "There'll Always Be an England"

The smoke from the V2 rockets was just clearing when those intrepid Brits threw out Churchill for that bland paste socialist Clement Atlee.

Three Quarters of the World. Now look at them. That's our near future.

Posted by: kbdabear at April 04, 2015 11:52 AM (GrXXa)

229 And fuck anyone trying to second-guess what I mean by not surrendering. I do things I'm sure as hell not going to talk about openly on the webs.

Posted by: Bat Chain Puller at April 04, 2015 11:52 AM (jpc8l)

230 "What do you think when you're looking at your children? Are you going to tell them "I'm out of here, you're fucked"?"

Sadly, I have no children. I do have nieces and nephews. I've told them that if I were their age, my first priority would be to get myself out of this country.

Posted by: Cloyd Freud, Unemployed at April 04, 2015 11:52 AM (lG2E3)

231 "Do with less, have more kids, for our future."

The reason whites don't have more kids, they're no longer a financial asset, as they used to be.

Posted by: lowandslow at April 04, 2015 11:52 AM (OBbk5)

232 Hell. One on the best headlines evah Drew M.

Posted by: Golfman at April 04, 2015 11:52 AM (lRk+V)

233 The problem is that weirddave and drew are both more or less right.
The world is spinning out of control and most people are too busy watching TV to notice or they are simply denying reality.
Most people see the violence and destruction (in Ferguson and many other places) and they call out for more and bigger government as the solution. They don't connect the dots back to the causes and call for more liberty.
We can cheerfully call for liberty, or we can scorn them and disassociate from them.
We are pushing the rock up the hill, knowing that we will always have to do so, but we are tired.

But... what's the alternative?

Posted by: matthewjohn at April 04, 2015 11:53 AM (7pEow)

234 Coming in late to the discussion... my position is we're at a point where blood is to be spilled, one way or another, in a civil war, or when the leftists finally get bold enough to try to use physical force on everyone else.

It's coming. I don't think there's any way it isn't. So I'm not all that concerned about the possible political solutions.

We have bigger problems.

Posted by: BurtTC at April 04, 2015 11:53 AM (Dj0WE)

235 It wasn't Ace, Peter, but thanks for your concern about social cons.

Posted by: andycanuck at April 04, 2015 11:53 AM (kivUY)

236 "Everyone pitched in, everyone gets some of the tips. "

Except in my case I made the ice cream, gave the lady my free ice cream, and was being thanked for that particular action.

The communal tip jar was never an issue because we all debased ourselves with horrible pun filled songs for tips and recognized those as a part of our crappy job, but this was a different thing entirely.

But regardless, my gripe was more with the idea that employees are punished for being anything but mindless drones than the money. The money was just icing on the asshole cake.

Posted by: Lauren at April 04, 2015 11:54 AM (MYCIw)

237 218
I worked at a bunch of bars, restaurants, coffee shops, whatever in my high school/college days and every single one of them worked like that. And I was also at the top of the chain and at the very bottom of the chain. When I was at the bottom, I was glad to get some crumbs from the top. When I was at the top, I didn't mind throwing some crumbs down since I knew what it was like.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at April 04, 2015 11:48 AM (0LHZx)

This is at the root of our problems. There are so many in the governing class who have never worked in the private sector. They go to law school, and when they get out immediately run for office.

This is why I would vote for Mike Rowe over any Ivy League law school graduate.

Posted by: rickl at April 04, 2015 11:54 AM (sdi6R)

238 I suppose it's entertaining in a sick sort of way to keep saying "we're fucked". But it pisses me off.

Its about a dose of reality to get people to change their behavior. Stop funding your enemies through donations and votes to a party that hates you. Stop helping companies like Apple and Yelp that hate you. Move toward being ready for things to go horribly wrong because it probably will.

This isn't about being all emo and pessimistic, its about being aware so you can prepare. You don't tell your kids they are doomed, you teach and prepare and strengthen them to face the future that is likely to take place.

I agree that often its presented in an awfully depressing way, but the message isn't just "we're doomed, run for your lives!!!1!"

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 04, 2015 11:54 AM (39g3+)

239 "I suppose it's entertaining in a sick sort of way to keep saying 'we're fucked'. But it pisses me off."

Yeah, but it's *cool* man!

Posted by: Mr. Estrada at April 04, 2015 11:54 AM (oE6t1)

240 moo moo is still here? after last night's ass kicking.

__________

1. I wasn't here last night.

2. Me not agreeing with you and you calling me stupid doody pants doesn't not constitute an "ass kicking"

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at April 04, 2015 11:54 AM (0LHZx)

241 220 -Oops. That number for present value would be $177,630..., or 77% greater, rather than 70%.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at April 04, 2015 11:54 AM (vPh3W)

242 Let. It. Burn? What planet do you live on? It's already burned. They're flying illegals here in planes so the don't have to travel through Mexico, and then paying all their living, transportation and educational expenses! We're over $18 trillion dollars in debt even the funny money the fed is printing can't save us. Quit pretending that there's a chance to turn this around. The GOP gave zippy everything he wanted because they think they'll be blamed for a government shutdown. A government shutdown was the only chance to rein in our wasteful spending. Might as well use monopoly money.

Posted by: hadoop at April 04, 2015 11:54 AM (2X7pN)

243 Mr. Moo Moo -

Thanks for the reply, but you're not the same guy. He was Polish on his father's side.

(Tough crowd today, huh?)

Posted by: FireHorse at April 04, 2015 11:55 AM (wdXFj)

244 I suppose it's entertaining in a sick sort of way to keep saying "we're fucked". But it pisses me off.

What do you think when you're looking at your children? Are you going to tell them "I'm out of here, you're fucked"?

The
model for the way out is, believe it or not, Rosa Parks and MLK for
starters. Patrick Henry if it comes to it, which it probably will.

Posted by: Bat Chain Puller at April 04, 2015 11:50 AM (jpc8l)

nope. plant a flag. Don't ring the bell. Never Quit. You're never out of the fight. There's always one more thing you can do.

etc etc

All that. snappy, sometimes annoying quotes but the underlying principle is sound.

Posted by: TangoNine at April 04, 2015 11:55 AM (x3YFz)

245 "Stop funding your enemies through donations and votes to a party that hates you. Stop helping companies like Apple and Yelp that hate you."

That's what I've been saying. But you said it was too isolating or something.

Posted by: Mr. Estrada at April 04, 2015 11:56 AM (oE6t1)

246 Ah, the Sunshine thread.

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at April 04, 2015 11:56 AM (SFPWo)

247 Despair

The US is not very densely populated. Either the numbers are going to be added via immigration, or some of us that give a crap about having a stake in the future are going to start having babies again. As noted earlier, the left doesn't have that many babies. We need to have more, a lot more, than they do if we are to have a stronger stake in the future. As long as we are educating our kids, teaching them the habits of freedom, than the left can't "educate" our kids into being good little sheeple. Yes, we do need to have larger families again.

Posted by: Mistress Overdone at April 04, 2015 11:56 AM (2/oBD)

248 It's all somewhat moot, of course..., because the $107K wasn't there at all. It still isn't.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at April 04, 2015 11:48 AM (vPh3W)

Actually, once you factor in inflation? REAL inflation, not the watered down Government number???

Inflation has been funning at better than 6% a year if you measure like they did in 1980.. so with the magic of compounding interest rates???

The stock market really is not up at all...

Posted by: BB Wolf at April 04, 2015 11:56 AM (qh617)

249 This is at the root of our problems. There are so many in the governing class who have never worked in the private sector. They go to law school, and when they get out immediately run for office.

This is why I would vote for Mike Rowe over any Ivy League law school graduate.
Posted by: rickl at April 04, 2015 11:54 AM (sdi6R)

__________

Good point. Flipping burgers in 90 degree heat when the A/C is working only at 40% capacity teaches you a lot of life lessons.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at April 04, 2015 11:57 AM (0LHZx)

250 The smoke from the V2 rockets was just clearing when those intrepid Brits threw out Churchill for that bland paste socialist Clement Atlee.

Three Quarters of the World. Now look at them. That's our near future.

And our distant future? Depends on how well prepared we are now. England isn't done going down the drain yet.

The reason whites don't have more kids, they're no longer a financial asset, as they used to be.

Brutally honest and accurate. And conservatives have to break this mold by looking at children not as a financial asset, but a resource. See them not as a drain on your time and fun money but as the future of your culture and a treasure to add to tomorrow. Think of children as a duty to later generations, soldiers in the coming fight.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 04, 2015 11:57 AM (39g3+)

251 1. I wasn't here last night.

2. Me not agreeing with you and you calling me stupid doody pants doesn't not constitute an "ass kicking"

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at April 04, 2015 11:54 AM (0LHZx)

then someone socked you and got wtfpnt

Posted by: TangoNine at April 04, 2015 11:57 AM (x3YFz)

252 Coincidentally, the entire population of the Earth could fit in Texas, if it was as dense as Hoboken.

I once mad a similar estimate on the suburb of Chicago I live in. We have lawns, nothing grand but enough. We have a hospital and adequate shopping within a mile. With two people to a house (which is a low estimate) the entire population of the world could fit inside the continental US, and no one would have to (for space considerations) even have to limit themselves to apartments.

People really don't understand how much bigger than us this planet is.

Posted by: Methos at April 04, 2015 11:57 AM (ZbV+0)

253 Everything works out in the end.

Posted by: toby928(C) says Rubber Dingy Rapids, Bro! at April 04, 2015 11:58 AM (rwI+c)

254 You appear to be deliberately conflating large-scale action and small.
.
I am and will continue to act in the small scale, encouraging the hiring of people, building of local businesses, and a society based on work not welfare.
.
The national GOP? Fuck that shit. Not one dime... and that includes making selective *local* donations and other activities that minimize my taxes.
.
Starve the politicians who act as circus-clown distractions, starve the leviathan, let Mordor on the Potomac burn *and have the undergrowth ready to thrive* in its' absence.
.
Mew

Posted by: acat at April 04, 2015 11:58 AM (XN/4q)

255 Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at April 04, 2015 11:48 AM (0LHZx)

But you play the role so well.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That at April 04, 2015 11:58 AM (zRby/)

256 I object to stupid doody pants.

Please place that in the court record.

Posted by: TangoNine at April 04, 2015 11:58 AM (x3YFz)

257 So essentially we have been reduced to this as our battle cry....

We have no chance, but fight anyway because we might be able to slow our enemies down for a little while!

It's not a battle cry. It's reality. Everybody dies. All nations fall. Entropy wins and the universe grinds to a halt.

If the LIB types would just stop and think about what I actually said, they would see that I'm agreeing with their thesis!

Where I disagree is with the conservative Utopian fantasy that the burning is a gateway to something better, or a path to restoring an imaginary conservative land full of buttercups and butterflies. That is, after all, exactly what the Marxists believe is the path to their Utopia.

I want to put those events off as long as possible.

My entire point is that under ever conceivable scenario, the burning times will be worse, not better. Prepare for them, sure, that's prudent. Embrace them? Madness.

Posted by: Weirddave at April 04, 2015 11:59 AM (WvS3w)

258 The problem with fighting now is that it won't prevent the collapse, it will only delay it.

Posted by: Gregory of Yardale at April 04, 2015 11:59 AM (4YKBD)

259 i suppose we also have different thoughts on possibilities depending also on amount of Time one believes we have to fight.

Posted by: comrade willow at April 04, 2015 11:59 AM (nqBYe)

260 Abandon the conservakin ghetto.

Posted by: chedolf at April 04, 2015 11:59 AM (AKMNq)

261 That's what I've been saying. But you said it was too isolating or something.

Yeah I think we were talking past each other, or misunderstanding eachother. Too many Christians withdrew completely from culture and only dealt with each other for decades out of shock and horror at what was happening to the country. In doing so they became irrelevant and the country got even worse.

There's a fine line, I suppose, but at least you can stop specifically helping your most obvious enemies.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 04, 2015 11:59 AM (39g3+)

262 When tips are shared no one has any incentive to be better than average.

Posted by: eman at April 04, 2015 12:00 PM (MQEz6)

263 "Brutally honest and accurate. And conservatives have to break this mold by looking at children not as a financial asset, but a resource. See them not as a drain on your time and fun money but as the future of your culture and a treasure to add to tomorrow. Think of children as a duty to later generations, soldiers in the coming fight."

Accurate.

Posted by: Mr. Estrada at April 04, 2015 12:00 PM (oE6t1)

264 Posted by: TangoNine at April 04, 2015 11:55 AM (x3YFz)

Yup... the American Revolution started, in a Bar.... after the legal system did not prosecute a well connected law breaker...

when the Government tried to come for their guns...

There were MANY who wanted to sit it out... to say things would get better... that they had no chance...

Posted by: BB Wolf at April 04, 2015 12:00 PM (qh617)

265 A lot of my Facebook friends from way back in my "religious" daze, are sure that we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but evil powers. And sure, there is some churchy truth to that. But they seem to say, we will fight by being good Christians and praying, etc. Also fine.

I try to tell them, as with the physical body, you don't nurture it by praying, you need food. Yes we need the culture side of Christianity, but you need to be civically feeding your community as well. They are captured by the PC world of MSM or Hollywood, and politics is too ugly to delve into.

Of course many are very involved, and see the problem, but too many want to hide and pretend it will all burn anyway. It sort of parallels the "let it burn" attitude, except they took that on as avoidance, not after working really hard and the getting Boehner and McConnell.

Posted by: Illiniwek at April 04, 2015 12:00 PM (QGjci)

266 236
Except in my case I made the ice cream, gave the lady my free ice cream, and was being thanked for that particular action.

Posted by: Lauren at April 04, 2015 11:54 AM (MYCIw)

I agree, Lauren. That tip was yours.

I've never worked in the food service industry, so I don't know what is standard tip policy. I only know that when I give a tip, it's for that specific individual.

Posted by: rickl at April 04, 2015 12:00 PM (sdi6R)

267 Can someone please write a noodping applet that notifies us once a new thread is up? I'd do it myself, but I have no pc at the moment (can one really do development on a smartphone?) and also I am quite drunk.

Posted by: Jill Boy at April 04, 2015 12:00 PM (XrHO0)

268 >>>Eventually the non-human world will be destroyed and it will be New Jersey style sprawl coast-to-coast.<<<

Luckily, we have lap-band surgery to help combat this vulgar indulgence.

Posted by: Fritz at April 04, 2015 12:00 PM (ty633)

269 I prefer peace. But if trouble must come, let it come in my time, so that my children can live in peace.

Posted by: toby928(C) steals only from the best at April 04, 2015 12:01 PM (rwI+c)

270 Where I disagree is with the conservative Utopian fantasy that the burning is a gateway to something better, or a path to restoring an imaginary conservative land full of buttercups and butterflies.

Again: strawman. Nobody is arguing that after the collapse we'll rebuild a utopia. Nobody.

We're arguing that the only option we have left is to rebuild, and we need to be working toward that.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 04, 2015 12:01 PM (39g3+)

271 Actually, once you factor in inflation? REAL inflation, not the watered down Government number???

Inflation has been funning at better than 6% a year if you measure like they did in 1980.. so with the magic of compounding interest rates???

Posted by: BB Wolf at April 04, 2015 11:56 AM (qh617)

_________

Bullshit. This is ZeroHedge garbage that is sadly repeated as troof all over the internet.

Bbbbbut a movie used to cost $1 in 1980 and now it's $10. So inflation is 1000% from 1980 to today.

Yes. And how much did a cell phone cost in 1980? A few thousand dollars. And how much did a flight from NY to LA cost in 1980? About $1500. Same flight you can take today for $400, maybe even less with enough advance purchase. How about a PC? Compare what you got in 1980 for what price vs what you get today for what price. The effective cost of a computer is a fraction of what it was in 1980. And on and on.

But yeah, inflation is rampant.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at April 04, 2015 12:02 PM (0LHZx)

272 And then there is the Black Swan scenario.

Iran gets the bomb. Shortly thereafter, DC, NYC, and maybe some other large liberal shitholes (Chicago, LA) go POOF!

Suddenly, the tyrants and the parasites are gone, and the survivors become very conservative indeed.

Posted by: Gregory of Yardale at April 04, 2015 12:02 PM (4YKBD)

273 The problem with fighting now is that it won't prevent the collapse, it will only delay it.
Posted by: Gregory of Yardale at April 04, 2015 11:59 AM (4YKBD)
----
But by delaying it we may buy time to win people over, develop new technologies, and shore up the foundations of what's worth preserving.

Posted by: All Hail Eris at April 04, 2015 12:03 PM (KH1sk)

274 Note to self: Cat oil makes a good lip balm.

Posted by: toby928(C) steals only from the best at April 04, 2015 12:03 PM (rwI+c)

275
People really don't understand how much bigger than us this planet is.

Posted by: Methos at April 04, 2015 11:57 AM (ZbV+0)

Except there would be no place, to buy food...

and not enough Water (which will be the cause of the eventual breakdown of the system IMO.. California's drought is going to hit the entire US economy, and the stupid Government here is going to hurt, not help...).

Posted by: BB Wolf at April 04, 2015 12:03 PM (qh617)

276 Posted by: BB Wolf at April 04, 2015 12:03 PM (qh617)

Excuse me.... meant to say 'to GROW food'....

Posted by: BB Wolf at April 04, 2015 12:04 PM (qh617)

277 Posted by: Weirddave at April 04, 2015 11:59 AM (WvS3w)

You are not getting it.

The first step is to stop being afraid.

The second step is accept collapse is inevitable.

The third step is you try your best to guide the collapse.

The fourth step is you try to guide the recovery.

There are no guarantees.

That's why you first have to stop being afraid.

Posted by: eman at April 04, 2015 12:04 PM (MQEz6)

278 Despair

The US is not very densely populated. Either the numbers are going to be added via immigration, or some of us that give a crap about having a stake in the future are going to start having babies again. As noted earlier, the left doesn't have that many babies. We need to have more, a lot more, than they do if we are to have a stronger stake in the future. As long as we are educating our kids, teaching them the habits of freedom, than the left can't "educate" our kids into being good little sheeple. Yes, we do need to have larger families again.
Posted by: Mistress Overdone at April 04, 2015 11:56 AM (2/oBD)

You know, it's funny, having been raised Catholic, in a very large family, my generation has shied away from the values that allowed us Catholics to thrive in this country, in SPITE of the hostility we faced when we got here.

We gave away our gains. We thought we would be much better off if we shed our odd, sometimes ethnic, in some ways peculiar cultural and religious beliefs. We became more generic.

And look what it got us. Abortions and soft socialism.

When we talk about a tribe that had the ability to fight off the leftists, that was us Catholics. We chose not to.

Posted by: BurtTC at April 04, 2015 12:04 PM (Dj0WE)

279 Everything works out in the end.

Posted by: toby928(C) says Rubber Dingy Rapids, Bro! at April 04, 2015 11:58 AM (rwI+c)

Truer words have never been spoken.

"Da Uniberse" has quite a few qualities. One of which is it's going to kill you, but that's another discussion.

Another is Path Of Least Resistance.

And from what I can tell if things behave in a fashion the universe isn't geared toward. Well.

They go missing.

Place liberalism on a milk carton, because in the long term? assholery gets what it has comin.

Posted by: TangoNine at April 04, 2015 12:04 PM (x3YFz)

280 I believe that the only thing that may save the Republic is a violent, bloody full on war with a common foreign enemy. I mean a gloves-off, take-no-prisoners-cataclysmic event where the ROE are almost non-existent. Wars are horrible events and I'm not wishing for one. But wars do tend to bring nations together by high-lighting our similarities instead of differences. And wars are the best thing for assimilating new immigrants. And our next war is going to be fought-in part-by millions of hispanics, and one thing you have to say is that many of them come from countries where courage and bravery are still held in high esteem.
We will win the next war against a foreign entity. But what we have right now is a slowly fracturing nation of peoples and groups with different agendas that cancel each other out.

Posted by: JoeF. at April 04, 2015 12:05 PM (fHMjT)

281 Usually love your posts WD, but this was an utterly unpersuasive essay.

1. The logic is suspect - we can't win for a variety of reasons you correctly point out, so we should just continue doing...something...telling leftists they're fucking everything up? Yeah, that box has been checked for awhile now.

So we get a flawed and inapt analogy on what to do. I'll fix it for you: imagine your yard is about 40 acres and you've got a push mower without self-propel and an electric weedeater with a 50' cord. And you've got no money in the account anyway and your electric bill is roughly $40,000.
Oh yeah, and the grass and the trees and the weeds and the scrub are all sentient creatures on par with Audrey II.

The collapse is here, as many others have pointed out. You don't quite seem to understand the underpinnings of Let It Burn. We were still able to save it, mathematically in Reagan's time. Now we can't. Replacement is coming regardless of the one nature you (incorrectly) think it will look like.

2. The history is wrong. LD'sC has already corrected you on that and I'm not sure how you can offer the electorate not picking Al Gore as an example of the Republicans accomplishing something "unintentionally". Combined with what LD'sC already pointed out, that was a particularly weak part of your argument.

Many former Soviet bloc countries collapsed after their empire fell apart and moved drastically to the right. Their outlook improved drastically. This is probably the easiest, most modern day example which should refute your claim of "never".

So yeah, you can keep your "don't leave the party" essay.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at April 04, 2015 12:06 PM (xSCb6)

282 I try to tell them, as with the physical body, you don't nurture it by praying, you need food. Yes we need the culture side of Christianity, but you need to be civically feeding your community as well. They are captured by the PC world of MSM or Hollywood, and politics is too ugly to delve into.

Moses and Joshua: Both required.

See Exodus 17:8-13.

Posted by: Grey Fox at April 04, 2015 12:06 PM (0Ppu2)

283 Black Swan was a good movie. Natalie Portman is hot.

Posted by: LIV at April 04, 2015 12:06 PM (0LHZx)

284 Canada better watch out.

Posted by: toby928(C) steals only from the best at April 04, 2015 12:06 PM (rwI+c)

285 When people went out west to be pioneers and set up their dreams in a wilderness filled with hostiles, they did so understanding that they were going to have a hell of a hard time, but that they would be building something wonderful for the future. They knew that they would likely see little of the benefits of their hard work until old age, and maybe never, but their children would and they were building a nation.

So they went where they had no infrastructure, no stores, no police, no military, only the strength of their back, the craft of their hands, and the courage of their convictions. And they sacrificed and struggled and labored and even today we're benefiting on the raw, awesome energy of that life.

That has to be our attitude for tomorrow. Will it mean we have to do without that coffee every morning, or the streaming movies, or the new games when they come out, or the latest gadget? Yes. It means we'll have to spend more time doing what needs to be done rather than what pleases us to do.

Our ancestors could do it. Can we?

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 04, 2015 12:07 PM (39g3+)

286 2. Me not agreeing with you and you calling me stupid doody pants doesn't not constitute an "ass kicking"

If I may step in here, I think he's referring to yesterday afternoon when
you referred to gluten intolerance as "Celica", which is actually a model of automobile manufactured by Toyota. I must admit it was pretty funny and I was part of the ensuing pile-on myself.

However, all you had to do was to say "oops, sorry for the typo, I meant celiac disease" and the laughter at your expense probably would have died down a lot quicker than it did.

Posted by: OregonMuse at April 04, 2015 12:07 PM (w2MRj)

287
Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at April 04, 2015 12:02 PM (0LHZx)

Go away you amoral dishonest lying shithead.

Posted by: buzzion at April 04, 2015 12:07 PM (zt+N6)

288 120 Many conservatives I know talk up how they will continue to fight the good fight, not all is lost, etc. etc.
Yet when I suggest the first step they might take is to pull their kids out of the public education system there are a myriad of reasons that's impossible.

Yep. As I commented yesterday, we're totes going to pledge our lives, our fortunes, and our sacred honor but damn, we just can't get off from work.

The opposition can rally 500,000 illegal aliens to march for Amnesty, but we can't get 100 people together to say "No".

There are supposedly a million gun owners in NJ, but when the legislature threatened to restrict our rights even further, we couldn't get more than 600 people to protest.

It's frustrating.

Posted by: despair at April 04, 2015 12:08 PM (J6suc)

289 No body is arguing for a Utopia. If anything, we have always been against immanitizing the escaton. Anyone seeking to bring about "the end" is sick. When Rome collapsed it took Europe a 1,000 years to recover from the Dark Ages, and they had to go through a whole experiment with theocracy replete with blood shed and destruction before arriving at the Renaissance. We may not have 1,000 years to recover this time. We can't afford to sit on our hands and do nothing.

Posted by: Mistress Overdone at April 04, 2015 12:08 PM (2/oBD)

290 Yes. And how much did a cell phone cost in 1980? A few thousand dollars. And how much did a flight from NY to LA cost in 1980? About $1500. Same flight you can take today for $400, maybe even less with enough advance purchase. How about a PC? Compare what you got in 1980 for what price vs what you get today for what price.
----------------------------

Yup, valid point, because we were all flying from LA to New York, buying PC's and cell phones in 1980.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at April 04, 2015 12:08 PM (vPh3W)

291 Posted by: Jill Boy at April 04, 2015 12:00 PM (XrHO0)

That's so cute.

this place is the Internet Forum equivalent of the Drudge Report.

Plain, no frills, no options, no likes, up or down twinkles, no IM's, no fancy CSS or HTML5, no widgets, apps, no replying to a comment it's all straight line.

And we LIKE it that way.
someone always is checking the front page for a new thread so why bother with programming a tool that reduces the time lag by 2 seconds?

Too many times more time has been spent programming some little gizmo to SAVE TIME. but the time saved never will equal the time spent programming the gizmo.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That at April 04, 2015 12:08 PM (zRby/)

292 278--I agree. I believe sincerly that the worse thing to happen to American Catholicism --and by extension America itself--was the emergence of the Kennedy family as a political force. When Ted Kennedy supported abortion, he signaled to Catholics--especially the younger ones, that it was okay.

Posted by: JoeF. at April 04, 2015 12:08 PM (fHMjT)

293 All empires end eventually. Can't stop it. Best you can hope for is a soft landing after the fall. Hopefully we'll end up like England and not like Mongolia.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at April 04, 2015 12:09 PM (0LHZx)

294 Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at April 04, 2015 12:02 PM (0LHZx)

No, its not bullshit.... it is using the very statistics the US Government USED to use for inflation... ie measuring it the way it USED to be measured.

But I guess those old economists didn't know shit.... only our better new economist know how to measure an economy....

Its like the Climate data... which they have been CAUGHT MODIFYING!!!!! NUMEROUS TIMES!!!!

Because our forefathers didn't know how to read a F'n thermometer...

Its like the stupid way they measure unemployment.... which masks the real issue, which is how many people are actually working... FULL TIME... all in an effort for the Government to look successful.

Posted by: BB Wolf at April 04, 2015 12:09 PM (qh617)

295 271
The effective cost of a computer is a fraction of what it was in 1980. And on and on.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at April 04, 2015 12:02 PM (0LHZx)

You're right about computers and cell phones. But what about food and energy?

Posted by: rickl at April 04, 2015 12:09 PM (sdi6R)

296 234 Coming in late to the discussion... my position is we're at a point where blood is to be spilled, one way or another, in a civil war, or when the leftists finally get bold enough to try to use physical force on everyone else.

It's coming. I don't think there's any way it isn't. So I'm not all that concerned about the possible political solutions.

We have bigger problems.

Posted by: BurtTC at April 04, 2015 11:53 AM (Dj0WE)

In my darker days, which come with increasing frequency, I fear you're right.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at April 04, 2015 12:09 PM (oKE6c)

297 What do you think when you're looking at your children? Are you going to tell them "I'm out of here, you're fucked"?

Anyone trying to keep SS going or opposed obamacare solely to protect medicare is doing exactly that.

The
model for the way out is, believe it or not, Rosa Parks and MLK for
starters. Patrick Henry if it comes to it, which it probably will..

Really? That affects the US debt situation or the stock market bubble, or our shredded alliances or any of the other ruin in progress how? You really think the welfare crowd that has enslaved us through their votes is going to give up their goodies out of respect for our personhood?

There is no way out, there are only paths through, and none of them pleasant.

Posted by: Methos at April 04, 2015 12:09 PM (ZbV+0)

298 Yup, valid point, because we were all flying from LA to New York, buying PC's and cell phones in 1980.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at April 04, 2015 12:08 PM (vPh3W)

______________

You really don't understand the difference between micro and macro, eh?

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at April 04, 2015 12:09 PM (0LHZx)

299 I suggest the first step they might take is to pull their kids out of the public education system there are a myriad of reasons that's impossible.
-----------------

I can't even get people here to stop using google.
"It's convenient"..., they say.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at April 04, 2015 12:10 PM (vPh3W)

300 Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at April 04, 2015 12:02 PM (0LHZx)

As someone recently pointed out at a public forum - yeah, but I can't eat a laptop. The modern inflation indexes have been thoroughly exposed here so many times that any semi-literate and numerate person should have it internalized by now.

You and everyone else here will be better off if you'd just shut the fuck up.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at April 04, 2015 12:11 PM (xSCb6)

301 Yup, valid point, because we were all flying from LA to New York, buying PC's and cell phones in 1980.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at April 04, 2015 12:08 PM (vPh3W)
I think his point was that inflation statistics are child's play to game, since they depend critically on which services and commodities to include, and which to exclude.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at April 04, 2015 12:11 PM (oKE6c)

302 Again: strawman. Nobody is arguing that after the collapse we'll rebuild a utopia. Nobody.

Fine, hyperbole conceded. Amend "Utopia" to "better".

You are not getting it.

The first step is to stop being afraid.

The second step is accept collapse is inevitable.

The third step is you try your best to guide the collapse.

The fourth step is you try to guide the recovery.

There are no guarantees.

That's why you first have to stop being afraid.

I'm with you on the first two steps. It's not fear, it's a cold, hard eyed assessment of what comes next, and that's why you lose me at 3. Following a collapse, as people are starving, they turn to the strong man who promises food. This is as constant as the dawn. They will pay no attention to the guy over there yammering about free markets and rule of law, even though he's right.

Posted by: Weirddave at April 04, 2015 12:12 PM (WvS3w)

303 ...and in the meantime, we should all probably donate $20.00 to help out Arlene's Flowers after she lost her lawsuit for refusing to provide flowers for a same sex wedding. This 70 year old woman is facing losing her home, her business, and her savings. Let's help her out. So far they have only raised like $68,000.00. If everyone gave 20 bucks, it could make a huge difference!

Donate here: http://www.gofundme.com/mz6zm4

Posted by: Mistress Overdone at April 04, 2015 12:12 PM (2/oBD)

304 I'm beginning to like Mr. Moo Moo.

He's evolved and not quite as smarmy as he used to be.

We've knocked off some of those rough edges.

Now when challenged he doesn't go all smooth and cool and shit. He starts snarling back like everybody else.

Welcome to the club.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That at April 04, 2015 12:12 PM (zRby/)

305 But I'll bet that you follow a strategy of laboring to make that life as good as possible until it happens, don't you?

Why is this any different?

Posted by: Weirddave at April 04, 2015 11:14 AM (WvS3w)

Fair question WD. It is different. My efforts to make mine and my childrens' lives as good as possible are 100% under my control. The results are directly linked to my output of efforts. If the results don't happen as expected, I can immediately change what I'm doing until I see the results I intend. The direct link works both ways.
However, when I vote for and work to get representatives elected, I get bupkis. Either they sit on their hands at crucial moments, ducking the very battle that I intended them to be there for, or they sell me out. (looking at you John Cornyn). For a mess of pottage that they get to eat.
I'm not interested in fighting a rearguard action, buying a little more time. FTN. For what? There is no larger noble principal or ideal at stake anymore. The outcome has been decided. Conservatives are too few and our elected GOPe representatives are part of the enemy class.
I will just shake the dust off my sandals and leave them to their own folly.

Posted by: Count de Monet at April 04, 2015 12:12 PM (JO9+V)

306 When we talk about a tribe that had the ability to fight off the leftists, that was us Catholics. We chose not to.

All Christians, really. We failed everyone miserably. We did not do our duty, we were not good Samaritans, we were not salt and light. Too often Christians follow culture rather than lead, too often Christians try to get along rather than instruct and love. We are to blame for so much that has gone wrong just because of our failure to do what we should have. I fully accept that and beg forgiveness.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 04, 2015 12:13 PM (39g3+)

307 You really don't understand the difference between micro and macro, eh?
Posted by: Mr. Moo
------------------------

I have some grasp of false comparisons and bad analogies.

To make your point, why not use commonly consumed commodities like food and fuel. What about housing costs?

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at April 04, 2015 12:13 PM (vPh3W)

308 One aspect of 'let it burn' that's missing is the following: if you let the federal government burn, states may be able to split away, either individually or in groups, if ever it came to that.

People bring up the civil war, but I think it's a mistake to view that as the immediate and inevitable result of any kind of fragmenting of the union. Since that time we've had a tremendous amount of demographic changes, societal changes, structural changes and more. Not to mention, you can have a breakup without a formal breakup.

Posted by: Crude at April 04, 2015 12:14 PM (/IrCS)

309 You're right about computers and cell phones. But what about food and energy?
Posted by: rickl at April 04, 2015 12:09 PM (sdi6R)

_____________

Sure. Some things are more expensive, some things are cheaper. But overall - in macro terms - inflation has been very low over the past 20-30 years.

PCEPI takes into account food and energy and while a little higher than core inflation, it's still quite low and has been for 30 years.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at April 04, 2015 12:14 PM (0LHZx)

310 And fuck anyone trying to second-guess what I mean by not surrendering. I
do things I'm sure as hell not going to talk about openly on the webs.

That's good to hear. If you're doing something, that's one thing. My complaint is more for the folks around here who insist that we can't give up, merely as a matter of attitude as if wishful thinking is somehow going to change the facts on the ground.

Posted by: Methos at April 04, 2015 12:15 PM (ZbV+0)

311 Miss Overdone. Sad, really. Only 1,500 donors.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at April 04, 2015 12:15 PM (vPh3W)

312 Miss Overdone. Sad, really. Only 1,500 donors.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at April 04, 2015 12:15 PM (vPh3W)

313 ***"Yet when I suggest the first step they might take is to pull their kids
out of the public education system there are a myriad of reasons that's
impossible."***

I don't get this. It took less than a few hours to get my youngest son set up in an accredited online school. His learning and performance has improved by leaps and bounds since doing it.

There may be a couple of legitimate reasons (parent/s work all day and can't leave the kid at home), but there is no excuse.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at April 04, 2015 12:16 PM (xSCb6)

314 To make your point, why not use commonly consumed commodities like food and fuel. What about housing costs?
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at April 04, 2015 12:13 PM (vPh3W)

__________

Now you're changing the conversation again. Fine.

PCEPI accounts for everything purchased by consumers, including food and energy. And it has been more or less mirrored core inflation. In the 80s it was a little lower in the 90s it was basically the same. In the 2000s it was slightly higher.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at April 04, 2015 12:16 PM (0LHZx)

315 303 ...and in the meantime, we should all probably donate $20.00 to help out Arlene's Flowers after she lost her lawsuit for refusing to provide flowers for a same sex wedding. This 70 year old woman is facing losing her home, her business, and her savings. Let's help her out. So far they have only raised like $68,000.00. If everyone gave 20 bucks, it could make a huge difference!

Donate here: http://www.gofundme.com/mz6zm4

Posted by: Mistress Overdone at April 04, 2015 12:12 PM (2/oBD)

Thank you for linking that last night. I had just donated to the pizza folks when I saw that, so I donated to her too.

I still wanna ask you out on a date if you're in my area.

Posted by: rickl at April 04, 2015 12:16 PM (sdi6R)

316 >Our role, as William F. Buckley so succinctly put it, is to stand athwart history, yelling "Stop!".

And this is why you're stuck advocating liberal policies from 50-100 years ago. Directionless and lacking in principle and innovation. If all you can do is hug the right side of the Overton Window you'll move left as the left does, cleaning up after their increasingly huge disasters.

Posted by: kartoffel at April 04, 2015 12:16 PM (uEmgg)

317 278--I agree. I believe sincerly that the worse thing to happen to American Catholicism --and by extension America itself--was the emergence of the Kennedy family as a political force. When Ted Kennedy supported abortion, he signaled to Catholics--especially the younger ones, that it was okay.
Posted by: JoeF. at April 04, 2015 12:08 PM (fHMjT)

I am sincerely trying to think of one Catholic politician these days, who argues from the perspective of traditional Catholic values. I am sure there are some, I just don't know who they are.

Instead, we know of Kennedy as a self-identified Catholic. Cuomo, who was even more identified by his religion. Kerry, who famously had a mini-battle with the Church over taking communion. Pelosi... I could think of more, but it seems pointless to do so.

Posted by: BurtTC at April 04, 2015 12:17 PM (Dj0WE)

318 It is up to $68,0000.00 now? Not bad. Yesterday when I looked it was around 30K

Come on folks. This is one way among many we can fight back.

Posted by: Luap Nor's last brain cell at April 04, 2015 12:17 PM (U7H1n)

319 Many former Soviet bloc countries collapsed after their empire fell apart and moved drastically to the right. Their outlook improved drastically. This is probably the easiest, most modern day example which should refute your claim of "never".

Sure, in a world secured by Pax Americana, buoyed by an economy in the West that was still strong. We're talking about the collapse of those two things, still think that the stage for afterwards is going to be set the same?

Posted by: Weirddave at April 04, 2015 12:17 PM (WvS3w)

320 The way we win is to Get the publics attention. To do this we must be wickedly cleaver and painfully direct. AND not take ourselves so seriously. We must be playful with "ideas" and concepts. Instead of fighting our opposition, we must flirt with them. The only remedy to your enemies lies is either to FLIRT or Fight with them.

Posted by: strangbird at April 04, 2015 12:18 PM (/g+rF)

321 283 Black Swan was a good movie. Natalie Portman is hot.
Posted by: LIV at April 04, 2015 12:06 PM (0LHZx)
_______________________

She is so soft and smooth. Totally unlike sand. Sand is rough and irritating. Kind of like Jon Stewart. I hate sand. Rather be with Natalie than fucking sand.

Posted by: Hayden Christiansen at April 04, 2015 12:18 PM (3F6F8)

322 Well, I don't think she got threatened with getting burned out or thousands of angry twits from socially demented idiots.

And it wasn't quite such a blatant hit job. (yes but the hittees were actual gays.)

I think we're reacting to the media's meddling.

BTW: Note to Mr. Cruz; come out and kick the media's aZZ and you will have bou coup votes in '16.

We hates them we hates them with a red hot hate of hatefulness and anyone who kicks their ass and makes them cry will get a vote from me.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That at April 04, 2015 12:18 PM (zRby/)

323 ...and in the meantime, we should all probably donate $20.00 to help out Arlene's Flowers after she lost her lawsuit for refusing to provide flowers for a same sex wedding. This 70 year old woman is facing losing her home, her business, and her savings. Let's help her out. So far they have only raised like $68,000.00. If everyone gave 20 bucks, it could make a huge difference!

Donate here: http://www.gofundme.com/mz6zm4

I'm going to just repeat this here in its entirety because I think people might have missed it and in the sidebar. Spread the word. This matters more than the pizza family, they're relatively young and had their business intact.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 04, 2015 12:19 PM (39g3+)

324 When Rome collapsed it took Europe a 1,000 years to recover from the Dark Ages,

Probably more like 600, between 410ish and 1010ish. I don't consider the High Middle Ages to be dark.

600 years is still too long, yeah. The Arabs didn't help. Good thing we don't have a problem with aggressive arrogant Muslims today/

Posted by: boulder terlit hobo at April 04, 2015 12:19 PM (vCyy6)

325
321 283 Black Swan was a good movie. Natalie Portman is hot. Posted by: LIV at April 04, 2015 12:06 PM (0LHZx) _______________________ She is so soft and smooth. Totally unlike sand. Sand is rough and irritating. Kind of like Jon Stewart. I hate sand. Rather be with Natalie than fucking sand.
Posted by: Hayden Christiansen script by George Lucasat April 04, 2015 12:18 PM (3F6F

FTFY

Posted by: buzzion at April 04, 2015 12:19 PM (zt+N6)

326 A very good expose on our current situation. However the solution is really not a solution at all. Following the `weeds` metaphor I would prefer a permaculture approach. One of the keys of permaculture is `if you don't like the weed, replace it with a more productive weed -- nature abhors bare ground.` Mapping that to political aspects means reframing the body politic via education. Replace the liberal weeds with conservative ones.

Conservatives lost when we permitted the Left to take over the educational institutions. If we want to `win` long term and in a sense forever, it requires denying the Left the one thing they need -- Your Children.

* Pull your kids out of public school. Sending kids to these institutions is child abuse. Make whatever alternate arrangements you deem suitable.
* If you are capable, run for school board positions. Once a conservative majorities are in control changes can be effected.
* After school classes on American History offered.
* University pull a boner? You know who the regents of the college are? Why not? Raise hell.
* Force univeristies to justify course selections, instructor selections, pupil ratios, etc. Again raise hell.

When all the weeds that are cropping up are conservatives the field will be ours. No need to mow the lawn any longer just keep planting the seeds.

Posted by: JohnMc at April 04, 2015 12:20 PM (RHBWt)

327 When we talk about a tribe that had the ability to fight off the leftists, that was us Catholics. We chose not to

The Roman Catholic church is incapable, and always has been, of fighting off leftism. That's because all of the Roman Catholic social theorists just loves them some big government. They never have had any problem with the big, maternalistic state getting into your home, your business, your bedroom and telling you what to do. As long as it agrees with Roman Cathoic teaching, they're fine with it. They only complain when they suddenly discover that the state now wants them to pay for abortions, birth control, etc.

Posted by: OregonMuse at April 04, 2015 12:20 PM (w2MRj)

328 Amazing how that works...

Except for a couple of exceptions, in very unregulated industries...

Everything I buy costs more....

But inflation is low I'm told... by the NEW way we measure inflation...

oh... and you can keep your Doctor too....

Posted by: BB Wolf at April 04, 2015 12:20 PM (qh617)

329 Posted by: Weirddave at April 04, 2015 12:12 PM (WvS3w)

Sorry, you are filled with fear.

Posted by: eman at April 04, 2015 12:20 PM (MQEz6)

330 Now you're changing the conversation again.

No he's not, you just weren't paying attention and had a hobby horse to jump on. If you scroll up he simply noted that inflation is far worse than its being reported because the government changed how it counts inflation. And it has, several times, since Nixon. Each administration keeps redefining terms like unemployment and inflation so it looks less terrible. You know this is true, stop being so antagonistic.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 04, 2015 12:20 PM (39g3+)

331 As someone recently pointed out at a public forum - yeah, but I can't eat a laptop. The modern inflation indexes have been thoroughly exposed here so many times that any semi-literate and numerate person should have it internalized by now.

You and everyone else here will be better off if you'd just shut the fuck up.
Posted by: Burn the Witch at April 04, 2015 12:11 PM (xSCb6)

_____________

So every economist, whether a righty or leftie is wrong but super sleuths at ZeroHedge know the troof. OK fine. And fire can't melt steel.

You can't eat a laptop. But when that laptop is cheap, the company that buys the laptop that delivers your food to the grocery store, it makes your food cheaper.

Is it starting to make any more sense?

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at April 04, 2015 12:20 PM (0LHZx)

332 No he's not, you just weren't paying attention and had a hobby horse to jump on. If you scroll up he simply noted that inflation is far worse than its being reported because the government changed how it counts inflation. And it has, several times, since Nixon. Each administration keeps redefining terms like unemployment and inflation so it looks less terrible. You know this is true, stop being so antagonistic.
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 04, 2015 12:20 PM (39g3+)

__________

Of course the calculation changes. Do you really propose we never change what items go into the CPI calculation? If we used the same method in Nixon then cell phones wouldn't count, laptops wouldn't count and we would pretend the internet didn't exist.

Yeah that would be a totally accurate picture of the economy.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at April 04, 2015 12:22 PM (0LHZx)

333 RIckl

Aww, you are quite sweet to flirt with the Mistress so.

I donated, too, and will probably donate again. It's sad to think that a poor 70 year old grandma could end up destitute is just so sad to me. The left is truly heartless. Truly.

Posted by: Mistress Overdone at April 04, 2015 12:22 PM (2/oBD)

334 That's because all of the Roman Catholic social theorists just loves them some big government.

This is sadly true, its why the hard left liberation theology types found such a comfortable home in the Roman Catholic church.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 04, 2015 12:22 PM (39g3+)

335 When we talk about a tribe that had the ability to fight off the leftists, that was us Catholics. We chose not to.

All Christians, really. We failed everyone miserably. We did not do our duty, we were not good Samaritans, we were not salt and light. Too often Christians follow culture rather than lead, too often Christians try to get along rather than instruct and love. We are to blame for so much that has gone wrong just because of our failure to do what we should have. I fully accept that and beg forgiveness.
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 04, 2015 12:13 PM (39g3+)

I agree, in that larger sense, Christian values were given away, as if they were nothing.

Particularly Catholics though, our large families were part of our heritage, and I know some of the reasons we gave some of that up was due to economics, and the reality that in an otherwise prosperous society, large families are NOT necessary for survival.

However, we were also ridiculed for it, so we shied away from that part of who we are. We quietly take our birth control, we have our abortions, and we go to Church on Sunday and mouth the words anyway.

Posted by: BurtTC at April 04, 2015 12:23 PM (Dj0WE)

336 I suggest the first step they might take is to pull their kids out of
the public education system there are a myriad of reasons that's
impossible.

I took a different tack: vaccinating them against leftist propaganda by pointing it out and refuting it whenever it revealed its pustulent head. The idea was to sensitize them to the existence of such propaganda, and to the workings of those who promulgate it.

I did this largely through use of a modified Socratic method, namely, verbalizing the internal dialogue of the thought process that I use. ("Is that assertion true? How do I know whether or not that's true? How would I find out? What would be the implications if that were true? Have those implications actually materialized? How could the assertion be falsified, if at all?"). In short, exactly the same thought process used in scientific research.

It works. And best of all, after a while, kids (and grad students!) internalize the process, and reflexively employ it themselves.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at April 04, 2015 12:24 PM (oKE6c)

337 Of course the calculation changes.

Serves me right for treating you as a rational, stable human being instead of a crank.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 04, 2015 12:24 PM (39g3+)

338 Moo - Why am I not surprised that the PCEPI shows no significant growth in personal expenditures?

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at April 04, 2015 12:24 PM (vPh3W)

339 Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at April 04, 2015 12:16 PM (0LHZx)

Now you've gone and made me feel stupid for praising you.

You are wrong. they've been tinkering with the metrics of measuring inflation for years trying to achieve a list that they can manipulate because they know it's big factor with voters and old people on fixed incomes.

the cost of living HAS GONE UP measured by any true and actual measurement.

NOT taking and mixing in a bunch of OPTIONAL stuff to make the number look lower.

Food, fuel (heat and transportation), electricity, water/sewer and of course TAXES.

Except for fuel (and only recently because of fracking) all those other items of NECESSITY have gone dramatically UP.

It costs more to LIVE than a few years ago.

The 30 years of mild phony numbers of so called inflation is bullshit. THEY'VE RIGGED THE NUMBERS.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That at April 04, 2015 12:25 PM (zRby/)

340 I took a different tack: vaccinating them against leftist propaganda by pointing it out and refuting it whenever it revealed its pustulent head

I saw Pustulent Head open for the Squeezed Zits at the Arco Arena in '94.

Posted by: OregonMuse at April 04, 2015 12:25 PM (w2MRj)

341 Deck chairs on the Titanic, all that really going on is posturing for position.

Why do you think King Putt is importing so many "refugee's" that instantly get goverment support?

Just because the Fed can print money doesn't mean working Americans can support the weight. He's following the Cloward-Piven model of collapse and rebuild, hoping his side does all the rebuilding.

Posted by: Gmac- Pulling in feelers in preperation... at April 04, 2015 12:26 PM (74McK)

342
So yeah, you can keep your "don't leave the party" essay.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at April 04, 2015 12:06 PM (xSCb6)

I think it's safe to say that most of us here don't have a party.

(this is not meant to say you shouldnt ParTAY, because BBB)

we, sometimes to a fault, are (and forgive me for the trite saying): stubborn. And free.

Posted by: TangoNine at April 04, 2015 12:26 PM (x3YFz)

343 Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at April 04, 2015 12:20 PM (0LHZx)

No, you stupid, dishonest, ignorant child. "Every economist" believes what you believe just like 97% of scientists believe in CAGW.

Support your assertion that "every economist" believes this.

Now.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at April 04, 2015 12:26 PM (xSCb6)

344 So yeah, you can keep your "don't leave the party" essay.

Except my argument wasn't "don't leave the party" it was "We're stuck with it as the only option". I give exactly Jack Squat to the party, but I do support individual conservative Republicans. If they turn out to be squishes, like Kay Hagen, I support different conservative Republicans. Eventually, you get a good one then move on to the next. I'd love for a third party to be a viable option, and I said as much, but I don't think that it is, and I gave my reasons above.

Posted by: Weirddave at April 04, 2015 12:26 PM (WvS3w)

345 There is another scenario. The inevitable end of Empire is dissolution. The United States will inevitably, at some point, collapse as a nation-state. Tyranny may reign in the People's Republic of the Eastern Seaboard and La Republica de la Gente de California. But freedom might survive in the New Republic of Texas, and the Deseret Republic, and the New Confederacy.

Posted by: Gregory of Yardale at April 04, 2015 12:26 PM (4YKBD)

346 And for the record... even if you buy into the Governments 3% interest rates for the last 10 years...

with compound interest, that's still 34%...

So even if the stock market added 70%.... that is still only a 36% increase....

If you define inflation as they did in the 70's however.... at 6% ... that's a total of 78% worth of compound interest.... or even more than the gain we've seen in the stock market...

Posted by: BB Wolf at April 04, 2015 12:27 PM (qh617)

347 Kay Hagen is a Democrat

Posted by: boulder terlit hobo at April 04, 2015 12:27 PM (vCyy6)

348 How confusing it must be for Moo Moo to think himself a sadist when he's really a masochist.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at April 04, 2015 12:29 PM (xSCb6)

349 The biggest mistake conservatives fall into is to buy into the lie that solutions come from the government. Sure we think we're not falling into that, but every time we say "we need to elect..." or "there ought to be a law..." the presumption is that the solution is big brother stepping into fix things.

Our first, second, third, and even fourth instinct should be "we need to fix" and "how can I change" not "how can government do this for us?"

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 04, 2015 12:29 PM (39g3+)

350 What's the name of that congresswoman for Carolina then? Elmers! That's who I meant. Sorry.

Posted by: Weirddave at April 04, 2015 12:30 PM (WvS3w)

351 When we talk about a tribe that had the ability to fight off the leftists, that was us Catholics. We chose not to

The Roman Catholic church is incapable, and always has been, of fighting off leftism. That's because all of the Roman Catholic social theorists just loves them some big government. They never have had any problem with the big, maternalistic state getting into your home, your business, your bedroom and telling you what to do. As long as it agrees with Roman Cathoic teaching, they're fine with it. They only complain when they suddenly discover that the state now wants them to pay for abortions, birth control, etc.
Posted by: OregonMuse at April 04, 2015 12:20 PM (w2MRj)

Not true. The Church only very recently embraced leftism as you describe it. When I say "very recently" I'm talking within the last century. As recently as the time of JPII we had a Pope who was actively fighting against leftism.

Now we have a Pope who is one of them.

Posted by: BurtTC at April 04, 2015 12:30 PM (Dj0WE)

352 Posted by: Weirddave at April 04, 2015 12:26 PM (WvS3w)

We are stuck with the GOP?

Seriously?

If you think so, then the GOP owns you.

Posted by: eman at April 04, 2015 12:30 PM (MQEz6)

353 This is sadly true, its why the hard left liberation theology types found such a comfortable home in the Roman Catholic church.

Yeah, and it was pathetic to watch the Catholic bishops jump enthusiastically into bed with ObamaCare, and then squeal like stuck pigs when they found out it meant their hospitals had to fund abortions.

You take the state's coin, you dance the tune they call.

Posted by: OregonMuse at April 04, 2015 12:30 PM (w2MRj)

354 A wise man once noted that government does only two things in response to problems: nothing, and overreacting.

Posted by: toby928(C) steals only from the best at April 04, 2015 12:30 PM (rwI+c)

355 This is kind of real for me. In three weeks, I am leaving the People's Republic of Maryland for the Purple State of Ohio. I still despise the Republic Party, but if I registered GOP I would at least be able to vote against Jeb in the primaries.

But most of me is thinking, "Why even bother?"

Posted by: Gregory of Yardale at April 04, 2015 12:31 PM (4YKBD)

356
@327
BS

Posted by: little dutch boy at April 04, 2015 12:31 PM (lKyWE)

357 What part of Ohio?

Posted by: buzzion at April 04, 2015 12:31 PM (zt+N6)

358 "The US population could fit at Shanghai density on 10% our land."

I don't want to live that way.

You cannot have infinite growth in a finite space. Eventually you have to stop. Eventually the Ponzi scheme goes broke.

Posted by: despair at April 04, 2015 12:31 PM (J6suc)

359 Not true. The Church only very recently embraced leftism as you describe it.

The Roman Catholic Church has always been fine with being big government in charge of lives, it was for thousands of years. Its comfortable with running things to the smallest detail in the medieval period through the Rennaisance. Its part of the church's history.

Have the only relatively recently become more comfortable with hard left ideas? Yes. But the concept of the church being at ease with big government is ancient. That makes it very hard to fight the leftist leanings.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 04, 2015 12:32 PM (39g3+)

360 352 Posted by: Weirddave at April 04, 2015 12:26 PM (WvS3w)

We are stuck with the GOP?

Seriously?

If you think so, then the GOP owns you.

Posted by: eman at April 04, 2015 12:30 PM (MQEz6)

Damn straight....

Posted by: The TEA Party... at April 04, 2015 12:32 PM (qh617)

361 I don't want to live that way.

Well, lucky for you.

Posted by: toby928(C) steals only from the best at April 04, 2015 12:32 PM (rwI+c)

362 First point - Let it burn:
The US is already an oligarchy.

Second point - Third party:
This was already done with the Tea Party, and for some reason the Borg-GOP assimilated and silenced them.

Third Point - GOP = Useless:
Guns rights, really? This is in the constitution and isn't something that should have to be fought for.
Stopping cap and trade? As soon as this gets put in place, you'll see small businesses vanish, as they'll be the only ones that are too small and insufficiently connected to wiggle free from the grips of senseless regulation.

IMO, the best bet is to de-assimilate the Tea Party from the Borg-GOP, and hopefully enough are elected to be the deciding votes on all legislation.

There's a lot of power in being the deciding factor, and I think that there is enough seats for this to be a starting point for the Tea Party.

Point being, the GOP isn't going to do it for you, they might as well be democrats. Future strategies should include propping up candidates in places where both the GOP and Dems are weak, to take back the weakest seats, propose successful, competent legislation, and gain public faith.

Posted by: Matt at April 04, 2015 12:33 PM (Jy87n)

363 There's plenty to worry about but Ehrlichian Malthusianism ain't one of them.

Posted by: toby928(C) steals only from the best at April 04, 2015 12:34 PM (rwI+c)

364 You should measure inflation for those things that people must buy and for taxes.

Then measure it for optional things.

Then combine the two.

Then report all three.

Do it any differently and you are blowing smoke.

Posted by: eman at April 04, 2015 12:34 PM (MQEz6)

365 I also have another recommendation for anyone. If by chance you have days off work or have a spouse at home all week. Go hit every gub'mint office you can think of and apply for assistance.

You probably do not qualify but the paperwork has to go through the motions. That takes time and effort and money they do not have.

Collapse the system.

Posted by: Luap Nor's last brain cell at April 04, 2015 12:34 PM (U7H1n)

366 There is another scenario. The inevitable end of Empire is dissolution. The United States will inevitably, at some point, collapse as a nation-state. Tyranny may reign in the People's Republic of the Eastern Seaboard and La Republica de la Gente de California. But freedom might survive in the New Republic of Texas, and the Deseret Republic, and the New Confederacy.
Posted by: Gregory of Yardale at April 04, 2015 12:26 PM (4YKBD)

Here in Missouraaah, we're probably going to join the Confederasaaaah, as we did not the last time. I don't care for the song though, Dixie. And I know nothing of growing cotten, and don't think I would look good in a handlebar mustache.

I may have to move to Texas.

Posted by: BurtTC at April 04, 2015 12:34 PM (Dj0WE)

367 I don't want to live that way

Sure, me either. But it can be done, and he's making a point about how much space we have, not an ideal scenario. We're not running out of room; far far from it.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 04, 2015 12:35 PM (39g3+)

368 Bitter Clinger: "They've been tinkering with the metrics of measuring inflation for years...."

Unemployment, too. Notoriously.

And what constitutes "poverty."

Etc.

Posted by: FireHorse at April 04, 2015 12:35 PM (lHZsI)

369 Mr. Moo Moo makes some good points sometimes, and I'm not afraid to say so when he does.

That doesn't mean that I agree with him all the time.

Posted by: rickl at April 04, 2015 12:35 PM (sdi6R)

370 Kay Hagen is a Democrat
Posted by: boulder
--------------------

Hey..., don't go there buddy.
I gamed the system for a 40% increase in personal worth in just one term. If you don't know how to work government grants, subsidies, and appointments that's your tough luck, prole.

Posted by: Kay Hag-en at April 04, 2015 12:35 PM (vPh3W)

371 "I took a different tack: vaccinating them against leftist propaganda by
pointing it out and refuting it whenever it revealed its pustulent head.
The idea was to sensitize them to the existence of such propaganda, and
to the workings of those who promulgate it." -- Jay

Well good for you! But you left chips on the table. Understand how education dollars are tabulated -- by the head. That child of yours is $$$ to them. Every child that leaves the system is $$$ lost. You should deny them the $$$.

Posted by: JohnMc at April 04, 2015 12:36 PM (RHBWt)

372 Posted by: Weirddave at April 04, 2015 12:26 PM (WvS3w)

I'm not sure you and I read the same essay.

You advocate that we must Do Something, yet you say: that there's no time for a third party; that we're so close to collapse that Hillary and a Donk congress would cause it in six months; and that you'll only support conservative candidates. [If we're that close to a collapse, you lawn analogy is even worse than it originally came across.]

If you're not supporting the GOP, then you effectively ARE supporting third party candidates through your abstinence in absence of voting in certain cases.

This is why I say the logic in your piece is suspect.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at April 04, 2015 12:36 PM (xSCb6)

373 And what constitutes "poverty."

Etc.
Posted by: FireHorse
------------

"full-time employment"

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at April 04, 2015 12:36 PM (vPh3W)

374 You should measure inflation for those things that people must buy and for taxes.

Then measure it for optional things.

This seems reasonable and just. Its subject to some political manipulation (aka: what is optional?) but its more logical and accurate than the trash we get now.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 04, 2015 12:37 PM (39g3+)

375 despair

either the people will come via immigration from mexico, central america, and south america, or we will start having more damn kids. those are your options. the central planners, the chamber of commerce want more people. the dems, they jst want to control WHO those people are so they can get voters to take away the property of the so-called "rich." you decide. either we have more kids, or the leftiies get their communists imported from elsewhere. that is the choice that is facing you. And...no, it's not a straw man or a false dilemma. it's policy, and it's happening as we speak.

Posted by: Mistress Overdone at April 04, 2015 12:37 PM (2/oBD)

376 When we talk about a tribe that had the ability to fight off the leftists, that was us Catholics. We chose not to

One tribe that remains stalwart is the Mormons. Mrs. Guevara and I, when considering plans to flee the People's Republic of California, seem to gravitate toward places with a hefty proportion of Mormons, whom we like. They're stout Americans, and have a zillion kids, and may be one of our last hopes demographically.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at April 04, 2015 12:37 PM (oKE6c)

377 The Roman Catholic Church has always been fine with being big government in charge of lives, it was for thousands of years. Its comfortable with running things to the smallest detail in the medieval period through the Rennaisance. Its part of the church's history.

I think that the Catholic Church's desire to run every detail was more theoretical than actual during the Medieval era - in practice not only did they have little coercive power over secular rulers but there were a lot of regional variations in the church itself (Ireland in particular retained its own way of doing things for a long time - it was only after the Reformation that they became good Roman Catholics, I think...)

Posted by: Grey Fox at April 04, 2015 12:38 PM (0Ppu2)

378 The problem is that with a Democrat president if the government accurately reported economic stats they could be as high as 50% inflation and we'd get alternating news reports about how this is great for workers because the pay is so much higher and how its all the fault of Republicans.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 04, 2015 12:38 PM (39g3+)

379 358 Posted by: despair at April 04, 2015 12:31 PM (J6suc)

and here we part company comrade...

You are a Malthusian....go with your god and be happy....

I notice that absent the government putting their thumb on the scale Malthusians have never been correct.....

There is 3 times the amount of land I highlighted there for "growth" without encroaching on the "Government's land" at all....

I believe in humanity, and I refuse to believe that growth and consumption are evils....

I wish Malthusian types would go the way of the Quakers and Shakers.

If you think human growth is a pestule on the face of Gaia Moonbat pop thyself.

Posted by: Sven S Blade a.k.a. El Assassin@sven10077 at April 04, 2015 12:38 PM (/4AZU)

380 Not true. The Church only very recently embraced leftism as you describe it. When I say "very recently" I'm talking within the last century. As recently as the time of JPII we had a Pope who was actively fighting against leftism.

Not entirely. He was fighting Communist totalitarianism in Poland, with Reagan and Thatcher, not leftism in general. And, I suspect, only because Polish Catholics were suffering.

Don't get me wrong, this is a great work JPII did, and I applaud him for it but understand it for what it is, limited in scope and short in duration.

Meanwhile, back here at home, the American bishops were cranking out peacenik bullshit, soft socialism, and other leftist pap position papers by the ream.

Please give me the name of one Roman Catholic social theorist who is in principle in favor of small government. I don't think you can.

Posted by: OregonMuse at April 04, 2015 12:39 PM (w2MRj)

381 I cannot get this song out of my head:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5LSIBUT1ds

That's a good thing, because it's an awesome song. Especially the last verse.

I can't quite articulate it, but it somehow seems to fit in this thread.

Posted by: rickl at April 04, 2015 12:40 PM (sdi6R)

382 And what constitutes "poverty."

Etc.

Posted by: FireHorse at April 04, 2015 12:35 PM (lHZsI)

"Poverty" is easy. It's the bottom N% of the population. We need programs, and of course more taxes, to make sure there's no longer a bottom N% of the population. Ideally, everyone would be above average. /liberal

Posted by: Jay Guevara at April 04, 2015 12:40 PM (oKE6c)

383 367 Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 04, 2015 12:35 PM (39g3+)

Quite....

if we took back "the government's land" and put it to private use we'd have genuine growth and a LOT more room....

this whole game is rigged and people like the Unicorn Killer are in charge at EPA.

Posted by: Sven S Blade a.k.a. El Assassin@sven10077 at April 04, 2015 12:40 PM (/4AZU)

384 JohnMC

You are right about education dollars. if kids are taken out of the system, the money goes, too. it is a good idea to starve the leviathon at every juncture possible. it's best to put kids in a private school or educate at home. if one can not, then it is important to be very involved in your child's education. kids are being spoonfed the most left-wing radical stuff you can't even imagine. this stuff is presented as if it were the undisputed truth. they read howard zinn, social justice theory, and even chomsky. nothing presenting another view point is presented. most parents don't even pay attention to what their children are being taught.

Posted by: Mistress O at April 04, 2015 12:41 PM (2/oBD)

385 Meanwhile, back here at home, the American bishops were cranking out peacenik bullshit, soft socialism, and other leftist pap position papers by the ream.

Please give me the name of one Roman Catholic social theorist who is in principle in favor of small government. I don't think you can.

Posted by: OregonMuse at April 04, 2015 12:39 PM (w2MRj)

The Catholic Church is tracing out the same trajectory as the Church of England, and faces the same fate - irrelevance - if it carries on.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at April 04, 2015 12:42 PM (oKE6c)

386 "Poverty" is easy. It's the bottom N% of the population. We need programs, and of course more taxes, to make sure there's no longer a bottom N% of the population. Ideally, everyone would be above average. /liberal
Posted by: Jay
-----------------------

Science!

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at April 04, 2015 12:42 PM (vPh3W)

387 ***"Mr. Moo Moo makes some good points sometimes, and I'm not afraid to say so when he does."***

No, Moo Moo knows how to ape good points that others make. Every other time he's trolling.

Yesterday was a particularly egregious example.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at April 04, 2015 12:42 PM (xSCb6)

388 Not true. The Church only very recently embraced leftism as you describe it.

The Roman Catholic Church has always been fine with being big government in charge of lives, it was for thousands of years. Its comfortable with running things to the smallest detail in the medieval period through the Rennaisance. Its part of the church's history.

Have the only relatively recently become more comfortable with hard left ideas? Yes. But the concept of the church being at ease with big government is ancient. That makes it very hard to fight the leftist leanings.
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 04, 2015 12:32 PM (39g3+)

Sure, but I don't think it's very useful to try to talk about this stuff in terms of the pre-reformation Church, and its role in society. If we examine the post-revolutionary periods in Europe, and certainly from the founding of THIS country until the mid-20th century, the Catholic Church, culturally, was in no ways compatible with modern leftism.

Posted by: BurtTC at April 04, 2015 12:43 PM (Dj0WE)

389 What part of Ohio?

Suburban Dayton. Fairborn-Beaver Creek

Posted by: Gregory of Yardale at April 04, 2015 12:44 PM (4YKBD)

390 369 Mr. Moo Moo makes some good points sometimes, and I'm not afraid to say so when he does.

That doesn't mean that I agree with him all the time.
Posted by: rickl at April 04, 2015 12:35 PM (sdi6R)

Blind squirrel. Pumpkin. Some assembly required.

Just because you agree with him occasionally does not him a friend or ally. He's made it pretty clear that he would gladly drive the train cars full of "hateful asshole religious bigots" to the camps.

Posted by: Insomniac at April 04, 2015 12:45 PM (mx5oN)

391 kids are being spoonfed the most left-wing radical
stuff you can't even imagine. this stuff is presented as if it were the
undisputed truth. they read howard zinn, social justice theory, and even
chomsky. nothing presenting another view point is presented. most
parents don't even pay attention to what their children are being
taught.

Posted by: Mistress O at April 04, 2015 12:41 PM (2/oBD)

If you want to REALLY piss yourself off, search for "The Story of Stuff." Pure sanctimonious leftist horseshit propaganda, shown to the elder Guevara in a high school SCIENCE class. It's enough to make a scientist rage stroke out. Young Guevara was about to take an "environmental science" class in high school, but saw the reading list - all Commie crap about how wonderful the Earth First "eco-warriors" were - and took something else.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at April 04, 2015 12:45 PM (oKE6c)

392 I don't think Moo Moo is a troll, I think he's a jerk with no self filter that argues himself into corners until he starts screaming nonsense and spittle about Christians.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 04, 2015 12:46 PM (39g3+)

393 Except my argument wasn't "don't leave the party" it
was "We're stuck with it as the only option".

Posted by: Weirddave at April 04, 2015 12:26 PM (WvS3w)

nope. Not really.

Posted by: TangoNine at April 04, 2015 12:46 PM (x3YFz)

394 And I know nothing of growing cotten, and don't think I would look good in a handlebar mustache.

I may have to move to Texas.

Posted by: BurtTC
---------------------------------

Get the handle wax, its popular here in TX.

Posted by: JohnMc at April 04, 2015 12:46 PM (RHBWt)

395 One of the main reasons they tinkered with the cost of living index is because of all the COLA clauses out there in Union contracts, building contracts, SS, welfare etc.

Believe it or not the Gov is trying to hide how bad things are so they don't have to pay out a lot of money for the automatic adjustments.

That's also why they're keeping the interests rates low by manipulation. To prevent an automatic default due to the size of the interest payments if the interest rates were to rise.

That's the sign of the impending collapse; interest rates soaring and the Gov unable to control it OR actually encouraging it to bring on the collapse.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That at April 04, 2015 12:46 PM (zRby/)

396 If we examine the post-revolutionary periods in Europe, and certainly from the founding of THIS country until the mid-20th century, the Catholic Church, culturally, was in no ways compatible with modern leftism.
Posted by: BurtTC
-----------------------------------

We're quite proud of ourselves. We managed to replace spiritual activism with social activism.

Posted by: The Berrigan Bros. at April 04, 2015 12:47 PM (vPh3W)

397 Meanwhile, back here at home, the American bishops were cranking out peacenik bullshit, soft socialism, and other leftist pap position papers by the ream.

Please give me the name of one Roman Catholic social theorist who is in principle in favor of small government. I don't think you can.
Posted by: OregonMuse at April 04, 2015 12:39 PM (w2MRj)

This is me agreeing with you.

And yes, there were both American Bishops, and Bishops elsewhere who poked their heads out when JPII was doing his things, and they were speaking out against the leftist trend within the Church.

Those fellas are now mostly dead, or mostly discredited within the Church. For a while there we thought the African Church would be a force for conservatism, but alas, not so.

Posted by: BurtTC at April 04, 2015 12:47 PM (Dj0WE)

398 Posted by: Jay Guevara at April 04, 2015 12:40 PM (oKE6c)

That's probably one of the best expressions of liberal economic philosophy I've ever seen.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at April 04, 2015 12:47 PM (xSCb6)

399 BurtTC

I would assert that the roots of communism can be found in Christianity itself. This idea of putting others before oneself, celebrating the under dog, the meek shall inherit the earth, sacrificing onself is seen as a virtue, etc.. Rand summed it up pretty well when she asked why the happiness of others was some how more important than one's own happiness? Why is it seen as a virtue when someone takes care of others but not him or herself? Why are other people the value at the expense of the individual? Yes, why?

And as far as poverty goes, you could give a poor person a fortune and it would solve nothing. a person is poor because they do not understand money nor how to handle it. That is why most of the lottery winners are broke again within a few years. That's right, they are right back where they were a few years later. Why? Bad business deals, spending it all, etc., and in short, because they don't know how money works.

Posted by: Mistress Overdone at April 04, 2015 12:48 PM (2/oBD)

400 And I know nothing of growing cotten, and don't think I would look good in a handlebar mustache.

I may have to move to Texas.

Posted by: BurtTC
---------------------------------

Get the handle wax, its popular here in TX.
Posted by: JohnMc at April 04, 2015 12:46 PM (RHBWt)

Dammit! Can't I just get me one of them there string ties instead?

Posted by: BurtTC at April 04, 2015 12:48 PM (Dj0WE)

401 I don't think Moo Moo is a troll, I think he's a jerk with no self filter that argues himself into corners until he starts screaming nonsense and spittle about Christians.
Posted by: Christopher
----------------------------------

SoCons..., because they are evil....., weirdly.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at April 04, 2015 12:49 PM (vPh3W)

402 389 Gregory of Yardale,

Hey that's where Ms. 10077 and I are from! Go skyhawks!

Try some Cassano's, Young's Dairy and burn the calories at John Bryan State Park.

Posted by: The Smiling Bandit@sven10077 at April 04, 2015 12:49 PM (tPY0a)

403 Believe it or not the Gov is trying to hide how bad things are so they don't have to pay out a lot of money for the automatic adjustments.

Well that and it is damaging to an administration if they admit their economic numbers are worse. Would President Obama have been reelected if he admitted the unemployment rate was actually 12%? Maybe, but it would have been harder.

That's also why they're keeping the interests rates low by manipulation. To prevent an automatic default due to the size of the interest payments if the interest rates were to rise.

Very true. And that doesn't even include the hundreds of billions the fed is holding in banking reserves to prevent it from totally devaluing the dollar.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 04, 2015 12:50 PM (39g3+)

404 Rand summed it up pretty well when she asked why the happiness of others was some how more important than one's own happiness?

Her first mistake was thinking it was about happiness.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 04, 2015 12:52 PM (39g3+)

405 BurtTC

I would assert that the roots of communism can be found in Christianity itself. This idea of putting others before oneself, celebrating the under dog, the meek shall inherit the earth, sacrificing onself is seen as a virtue, etc.. Rand summed it up pretty well when she asked why the happiness of others was some how more important than one's own happiness? Why is it seen as a virtue when someone takes care of others but not him or herself? Why are other people the value at the expense of the individual? Yes, why?

And as far as poverty goes, you could give a poor person a fortune and it would solve nothing. a person is poor because they do not understand money nor how to handle it. That is why most of the lottery winners are broke again within a few years. That's right, they are right back where they were a few years later. Why? Bad business deals, spending it all, etc., and in short, because they don't know how money works.
Posted by: Mistress Overdone at April 04, 2015 12:48 PM (2/oBD)

Maybe, but it would be a mistake to say that communism is a direct offspring of Christianity. More of a bastard, ingrate who fouled the message to his own needs.

Christian charity is one of the greatest inventions of mankind. It neither extols the virtues of poverty, nor perpetuates its continuation. Instead, it allows those of us who have more, to freely share what we will with those less fortunate. Our carrot comes with a stick: Here, take this. And now get your arse busy taking care of yourself!

It worked. Now the government does it. Needless to say, it does NOT work.

Posted by: BurtTC at April 04, 2015 12:53 PM (Dj0WE)

406 Jay Guevara

Good call on keeping Jr. out of the lefty science class. It's amazing how every topic, every field is now politicized with communist drivel. Science has been infiltrated by lefties, and of course, these are the same nutters that were fear mongering about the supposed Erhilich population bomb back in the 70s. Supposedly, according to erhlich, we are all supposed to be long dead of starvation or something. Typical malthusian b.s.. Welcome to the world of science!

Posted by: Mistress Overdone at April 04, 2015 12:53 PM (2/oBD)

407 Posted by: Mistress Overdone at April 04, 2015 12:48 PM (2/oBD)

which by the way is Paul's version of christianity.

Paul being a Christian hater who suddenly on the way to Damascus had an epiphany and began to proceed to ruin the church and Christianity forever.(yes there are still stuff that was not effected but it's only been in recent years that Christianity has begun to examine it's true roots and what Jesus actually meant by what he said and that's thanks to the awful and terrible church that Paul promoted and Peter built).

*ducks as I've just injected religion into a political discussion.* *INCOMING!!*

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That at April 04, 2015 12:53 PM (zRby/)

408 380
Please give me the name of one Roman Catholic social theorist who is in principle in favor of small government. I don't think you can.

Posted by: OregonMuse at April 04, 2015 12:39 PM (w2MRj)

Nope. Protestantism was a reaction to Catholic theocratic totalitarianism in the Middle Ages. America would not have been possible without the Protestant Reformation.

*ducks out quickly before the 17th century religious wars start up again*

Posted by: rickl at April 04, 2015 12:53 PM (sdi6R)

409 Dammit! Can't I just get me one of them there string ties instead?

With a silver and turquoise clasp, naturally.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 04, 2015 12:53 PM (39g3+)

410 I would assert that the roots of communism can be found in Christianity itself. This idea of putting others before oneself, celebrating the under dog, the meek shall inherit the earth, sacrificing onself is seen as a virtue, etc

This is exactly right. Communism is a modern Christian heresy. All the communist blather about helping "the workers" and "the oppressed" are merely the theft (and subsequent perversion) of some basic Christian ideas.

Posted by: OregonMuse at April 04, 2015 12:54 PM (w2MRj)

411 So long as you are just trying to stop the government from growing, you can never win. If you want to win, you must actively try to shrink it... then you might have a chance at actually stopping its growth.

Posted by: DocMerlin at April 04, 2015 12:54 PM (OvvRq)

412 Jay Guevara @ 382: "Ideally, everyone would be above average."

After twelve consecutive years of Republican policies, fully HALF of America's population still live below the nation's median income level. This number has remained virtually unchanged from 1981 to 1993, despite promises by Presidents Reagan and Bush to improve the economy for the middle class.

The same happened with W: Half of the people languished in the bottom 50%.

Posted by: FireHorse at April 04, 2015 12:54 PM (lHZsI)

413 I have been studying COINTELPRO ops in the 60's/70's.

The Leftists do not stop, they lie constantly, and they resort to violence instinctively. The old democrat liberals" just rolled over and let the Left take over...as did the "silent majority".

If you let the other side dictate rules of conflict, you will lose. The Left will use coercion against you, and they will use violence. If they give you the option to obey the law while they flagrantly break it (and get away with doing so), you will lose. If they are the ones using force, while you talk about whether or not to vote for a political party that stabs you in the back repeatedly, you will lose.

No one needs to seize radio stations and start yelling coup, or anything similarly illegal. THAT would be counterproductive. While it would be a shame if the politicians, strategists, theorists, logistical keymen, propagandists, and enforcers of the Left were to suffer an outbreak of suicide a la Argentinian prosecutor <sniff, sniff, tears, oh the humanity>, does anyone think the LIV's would give a shit?

The LIV's aren't going to riot over dead politicians, no matter how much Chrissy Tingles cries on TV.

But then again I aint got kids, so I don't have to worry about the situation I'm dumping them into.

Posted by: Grad School Fool at April 04, 2015 12:54 PM (A9KzJ)

414 Believe it or not the Gov is trying to hide how bad things are so they
don't have to pay out a lot of money for the automatic adjustments.

The way the Obama regime cooks the books, they must have hired Gordon Ramsay as Budget Director.

Posted by: Gregory of Yardale at April 04, 2015 12:55 PM (4YKBD)

415 Moo Moo is an amoral shithead liar. He'd slit someone's throat if he thought it would earn him some money.

Posted by: buzzion at April 04, 2015 12:56 PM (zt+N6)

416 That's also why they're keeping the interests rates low by manipulation.
To prevent an automatic default due to the size of the interest
payments if the interest rates were to rise.

Yep. Another reason is that if we had to pay interest rates that would attract arm's length investors, our economy would nosedive further into recession, or even perhaps depression. So instead we borrow money from ourselves (how exactly does that work? Can I loan myself a few million dollars? How?) at an interest rate mutually agreeable to both the lender and borrower - which in both cases, would be ... uh ... us. Hi there, quantitative easing!

Posted by: Jay Guevara at April 04, 2015 12:57 PM (oKE6c)

417 Go skyhawks!

Try some Cassano's, Young's Dairy and burn the calories at John Bryan State Park.

We will. The place were moving to is actually pretty close to Fairborn HS. Which works out well for me. High school bleachers on a Friday Night are my happy place.

Posted by: Gregory of Yardale at April 04, 2015 12:57 PM (4YKBD)

418 Posted by: Mistress Overdone at April 04, 2015 12:48 PM (2/oBD)

That's not the only reason people are in poverty. Nor is it the only reason they stay there.

Unless you've truly been poor (back before the welfare and the snap and the afdc and such) you have no real idea how depressing and how much a burden it can become.

It's very difficult to pull oneself up and without help impossible for a lot of people.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That at April 04, 2015 12:57 PM (zRby/)

419 One measure of inflation is actual money supply, which may or may not show up in prices.

Right now we see it in the stock and bond market, but if those ever started to fall people might try to buy real things with all that funny money.

Deflation would be fine for responsible savers, but it isn't what our debt burdened government can afford, and it doesn't "stimulate". Until the billionaire players out there go against the fed and drive up interest rates despite fed policy ... then "don't fight the fed".

But if rates ever go up while Yellin is doing QE4 or QE5, then inflation will likely show up. But as long as China and everyone accepts ZIRP and QE and funny money ... no worries mate. heh

oh, and "hedonistic pricing" manipulates the inflation rate some, since the low end car you buy now is worth triple what is was years ago, because of all the cool features it has. So they say 200% price increase is 0% inflation. (that's exaggerated)

Posted by: Illiniwek at April 04, 2015 12:58 PM (QGjci)

420 BurtTC

A bastard offspring, sure, I suppose, but there is a long littany of socialist Christians going back centuries. My favorite are the Icarians. They were Christian socialists that tried to start a commune. They were lefty nutters. There is a tradition of Christian socialism, make no mistake about that.

The only mistake the communists really made was basically outlawing religion. They were always much more effective when they inflitrated the churches, which is what they've pretty much done now. I know plenty of former Evangelical Christians that consider themselves Christians but socialists, because hey, we need to"help" people. If all you care about is money, you are "selfish," and "money isn't important," etc..

Posted by: Mistress Overdone at April 04, 2015 12:58 PM (2/oBD)

421 Nope. Protestantism was a reaction to Catholic theocratic totalitarianism in the Middle Ages. America would not have been possible without the Protestant Reformation. *ducks out quickly before the 17th century religious wars start up again*
Posted by: rickl at April 04, 2015 12:53 PM (sdi6R)

And America exists because of the reaction to Protestant theocratic totalitarianism.

Posted by: buzzion at April 04, 2015 12:59 PM (zt+N6)

422 Good call on keeping Jr. out of the lefty science
class. It's amazing how every topic, every field is now politicized with
communist drivel. Science has been infiltrated by lefties, and of
course, these are the same nutters that were fear mongering about the
supposed Erhilich population bomb back in the 70s. Supposedly, according
to erhlich, we are all supposed to be long dead of starvation or
something. Typical malthusian b.s.. Welcome to the world of science!

Posted by: Mistress Overdone at April 04, 2015 12:53 PM (2/oBD)

Thank you, but I can take no credit. He made that decision strictly on his own, to my great satisfaction.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at April 04, 2015 01:00 PM (oKE6c)

423 Moo Moo is an amoral shithead liar. He'd slit someone's throat if he thought it would earn him some money.

I doubt it. Moo is a troll. He is whatever he needs to be to get a reaction from you guys, as is obvious when you guys question him on his statements. The reason they are rambling and inconsistent is not necessarily his stupidity, it's that he didn't believe them in the first place. They were just to get a rise out of you.

100% internet troll.

Posted by: toby928(C) steals only from the best at April 04, 2015 01:01 PM (rwI+c)

424 398 Posted by: Jay Guevara at April 04, 2015 12:40 PM (oKE6c)

That's probably one of the best expressions of liberal economic philosophy I've ever seen.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at April 04, 2015 12:47 PM (xSCb6)

Thanks!

Posted by: Jay Guevara at April 04, 2015 01:01 PM (oKE6c)

425 And America exists because of the reaction to Protestant theocratic totalitarianism.

Both those things are true, although the evil puritan cruelties taught us by universities and historians is not nearly as bad or extensive as they pretend. Remember: professors and historians hate Christianity as hard leftists always do, and they are fully willing to rewrite history about our religious past in the USA as they are everything else.

In short: don't just swallow all you're told about puritans.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 04, 2015 01:02 PM (39g3+)

426 I know plenty of former Evangelical Christians that consider themselves Christians but socialists, because hey, we need to"help" people. If all you care about is money, you are "selfish," and "money isn't important," etc..

There's a big difference between people who choose this as their lifestyle out of charity and selfless love... and those who demand we all do so by the power of the federal government. You can be very giving, selfless, and free with your money to donate to the poor and vehemently oppose socialism as an economic system.

Again: people need to get past the lie that its all about government.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 04, 2015 01:03 PM (39g3+)

427 Bitter Clinger

I've been desperately poor in my life. I know how stressful it can be if you just get a parking ticket, or a a flat tire. People who think that money isn't important or think that people shouldn't worry about money are those that have always had it. I do fine now, but I take money very seriously. Money is very important, and those that pretend it isn't, are anti-capitalists that have always had it. They are part of the problem.

No matter what, we are all responsible for our own condition in life. Our life is our own, regardless of the cards we have been dealt, and no one is going to "save" us. We have to save our selves, create our own lives, and be our own heroes. To think otherwise is to shirk responsibility. Life is not easy, but for those that take ownership of thier lives, there is a way out of poverty. Each and every one of us creates our own lives. No one is going to do it for ya!

Posted by: Mistress Overdone at April 04, 2015 01:04 PM (2/oBD)

428 And as far as poverty goes, you could give a poor
person a fortune and it would solve nothing. a person is poor because
they do not understand money nor how to handle it. That is why most of
the lottery winners are broke again within a few years. That's right,
they are right back where they were a few years later. Why? Bad business
deals, spending it all, etc., and in short, because they don't know how
money works.

Posted by: Mistress Overdone at April 04, 2015 12:48 PM (2/oBD)
This.

Lottery winners are an easy mark, because they're self-selected for low intelligence and non-existent financial acumen, otherwise they wouldn't have bought lottery tickets. People with poor foresight, lousy judgment, and minimal impulse control looking for a quick and easy way out: what could go wrong? They should just stick to "get thin in two weeks" diet books.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at April 04, 2015 01:04 PM (oKE6c)

429 The same happened with W: Half of the people languished in the bottom 50%.

I had to reread this sentence twice to make sure I wasn't seeing things. Let's try this again:

The same happened with W: Half of the people languished in the bottom 50%.

Umm... Not to be a dick or anything, but this sounds like something I would read in The Onion. Am I just missing the joke here?

Posted by: OregonMuse at April 04, 2015 01:05 PM (w2MRj)

430 Am I just missing the joke here?

All our jokes are above average.

Posted by: toby928(C) steals only from the best at April 04, 2015 01:06 PM (rwI+c)

431 Please remember that some people are poor because they can be nothing else. If you're very ill and cannot work a steady job, have little or no family around, then you're not going to pull yourself by your own bootstraps no matter how hard you try. Some people cannot better themselves. Cannot. There has to be room in our culture and policies for this very hard truth.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 04, 2015 01:06 PM (39g3+)

432 Jay Guevara

Sounds like you raised a kid that can think! What an accomplishment in this day and age! Good for you!

Posted by: Mistress Overdone at April 04, 2015 01:06 PM (2/oBD)

433 "This is exactly right. Communism is a modern Christian heresy."

ummm .. no. Helping your family or neighbors is old as the hills. Jews tended to help their own tribes. But the difference between "free will giving" and forced taking is rather monumental. Forcing the serfs to give was done by kings, and the kings with power decided what the serfs got back.

one place in Acts mentions "they had all things common", but it was still not a forced commune. And government gives as it wants, free will giving in Acts was requested, usually for a specific need ... like the brothers (not the whole city) suffering in another city.

Posted by: Illiniwek at April 04, 2015 01:08 PM (QGjci)

434 Umm... Not to be a dick or anything, but this sounds like something I would read in The Onion. Am I just missing the joke here?

yes

The lottery thing: one of the best lessons you can teach your kids is to get them to earn money and learn small lessons about handling it and budgeting. They need to learn early and learn continually about that so they can handle larger amounts better, later.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 04, 2015 01:08 PM (39g3+)

435 It's always been true but more so now;

assume everything you've been told or are being told is a lie that advances someones agenda.

Assume that everything you see may not be what it appears to be (if it's even real) and if it is not then it advances someones agenda. If it is, it may be caused by someone advancing their agenda.

None of what you hear, half of what you see.

Hard to do, but words to live by.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That at April 04, 2015 01:08 PM (zRby/)

436 ***"Am I just missing the joke here?"***

Yes. ;D

The reason is because it is precisely how a leftwing reporter would pitch leftwing statistical bullshit. Not that you're leftwing, it's that you're so used to hearing nonsense like this from ostensibly knowledgeable people, it sounds all truthy and shit.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at April 04, 2015 01:08 PM (xSCb6)

437 420
I know plenty of former Evangelical Christians that consider themselves Christians but socialists, because hey, we need to"help" people. If all you care about is money, you are "selfish," and "money isn't important," etc..

Posted by: Mistress Overdone at April 04, 2015 12:58 PM (2/oBD)

That also describes plenty of left-wing Jews.

Posted by: rickl at April 04, 2015 01:08 PM (sdi6R)

438 But now the government excuse for taking is indeed always wrapped in "for the common good" ... like the AGW bs

Posted by: Illiniwek at April 04, 2015 01:09 PM (QGjci)

439 I've been desperately poor in my life. I know how stressful it can be if you just get a parking ticket, or a a flat tire. People who think that money isn't important or think that people shouldn't worry about money are those that have always had it. I do fine now, but I take money very seriously. Money is very important, and those that pretend it isn't, are anti-capitalists that have always had it. They are part of the problem.

No matter what, we are all responsible for our own condition in life. Our life is our own, regardless of the cards we have been dealt, and no one is going to "save" us. We have to save our selves, create our own lives, and be our own heroes. To think otherwise is to shirk responsibility. Life is not easy, but for those that take ownership of thier lives, there is a way out of poverty. Each and every one of us creates our own lives. No one is going to do it for ya!
Posted by: Mistress Overdone at April 04, 2015 01:04 PM (2/oBD)

It's not an either/or proposition. People who change their lives generally do so from a combination of BOTH their own will to take better care of themselves, and someone else coming along to help them figure out how.

I think this is where a lot of libertarians lose their way. They think asking for help is a bad thing, or getting help means you cheated somehow.

There are many many many people out there who can't figure it out for themselves. Hell, I would argue NONE of us can figure it out for ourselves, but I don't want to get too philosophical here.

My point is, charity is a GOOD thing, because there are people out there who need it. And those who need a hand, it only works if they learn to stand on their own two feet AFTER somebody helps them up.

Posted by: BurtTC at April 04, 2015 01:10 PM (Dj0WE)

440 And yes, there were both American Bishops, and Bishops elsewhere who poked their heads out when JPII was doing his things, and they were speaking out against the leftist trend within the Church.

Remember Michael Novak? Not a bishop, but a conservative columnist, RCC scholar, I believe, wrote a book against 'liberation' theology. I always thought he was one of the good guys. Wonder if he's still around?

Posted by: OregonMuse at April 04, 2015 01:10 PM (w2MRj)

441 I think this is where a lot of libertarians lose their way. They think asking for help is a bad thing, or getting help means you cheated somehow.

There are many many many people out there who can't figure it out for themselves. Hell, I would argue NONE of us can figure it out for ourselves, but I don't want to get too philosophical here.

Indeed, I agree. Supporting charity: good. Requiring "charity" through taxation and redistribution: bad.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 04, 2015 01:11 PM (39g3+)

442 417 Gregory of Yardale,

Just buckle up it's a hard ride. In the 6 years Ms. 10077 and myself were there (we're a year apart) the varsity won 0 fames. It was like Charlie Brown for QB.

Posted by: The Smiling Bandit@sven10077 at April 04, 2015 01:12 PM (tPY0a)

443 Illiniwek

Communism isn't about helping your family or your neighbor. It's about not allowing any private enterprise or private property. It's about controlling all means of production. This idea that we will all "share" is very seductive to some people. They believe that this will work. We have in this country actually a very small percentage of people that are long-standing poor. If you look at the census data, people move in and out of income brackets all the time. There is, however, a small percentage that has been poor, stays poor, and will probably always be poor. In addition, it's been estimated that like 80% of the poverty in this country has been linked to out of wedlock births and single parent households. The more we tear apart the family, we remove the idea that families should take care of family members. Instead, we expect the government to take care of our brothers, or parents, or even our nieghbors.

Posted by: Mistress Overdone at April 04, 2015 01:12 PM (2/oBD)

444 The same happened with W: Half of the people languished in the bottom 50%.

Umm... Not to be a dick or anything, but this sounds like something I would read in The Onion. Am I just missing the joke here?

Posted by: OregonMuse at April 04, 2015 01:05 PM (w2MRj)

Yeah. It was a riff on the caricature of leftist economic/social policy in #398.

The funny part is that someone running for office - as a Democrat, of course - with exactly that platform ("help the bottom 50% move up!") would be a formidable candidate.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at April 04, 2015 01:13 PM (oKE6c)

445 You will always have the poor with you. - stuff some carpenter's son said once

Posted by: Count de Monet at April 04, 2015 01:13 PM (JO9+V)

446 Communism isn't about helping your family or your neighbor. It's about not allowing any private enterprise or private property. It's about controlling all means of production.

Correct, which is why its not remotely even beginning to maybe be similar to Christianity in any sense of the word.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 04, 2015 01:14 PM (39g3+)

447 The reason is because it is precisely how a leftwing reporter would pitch leftwing statistical bullshit.

OK, now I see, I went back and traced the sub-thread and there was a whole conversation about this I had missed. I should be quick to read, slow to type.

Posted by: OregonMuse at April 04, 2015 01:14 PM (w2MRj)

448 In addition, it's been estimated that like 80% of the poverty in this country has been linked to out of wedlock births and single parent households.

So same sex marriage will make us all rich.

Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at April 04, 2015 01:15 PM (W5DcG)

449 205
Coincidentally, the entire population of the Earth could fit in Texas, if it was as dense as Hoboken.
Posted by: toby928(C) at April 04, 2015 11:43 AM (rwI+c)

I've been in elevators more crowded than Rhode Island would be if we stuffed it with the entire world population.

Posted by: Mindy in the land of unvaccinated kindergarteners at April 04, 2015 01:16 PM (/niD3)

450 No matter what, we are all responsible for our own condition in life.
Our life is our own, regardless of the cards we have been dealt, and no
one is going to "save" us. We have to save our selves, create our own
lives, and be our own heroes. To think otherwise is to shirk
responsibility. Life is not easy, but for those that take ownership of
thier lives, there is a way out of poverty. Each and every one of us
creates our own lives. No one is going to do it for ya!

Posted by: Mistress Overdone at April 04, 2015 01:04 PM (2/oBD)

You're on a roll.

To everyone who says they've suffered a misfortune, and they should (as of right) be bailed out by the government, I ask if they'd enjoyed a windfall, would they be ponying up to the Treasury? I doubt it very much.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at April 04, 2015 01:16 PM (oKE6c)

451 The Walter Williams roadmap out of poverty: "Complete high school; get a job, any kind of a job; get married before having children; and be a law-abiding citizen. Among both black and white Americans so described, the poverty rate is in the single digits."

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 04, 2015 01:16 PM (39g3+)

452 In addition, it's been estimated that like 80% of the poverty in this country has been linked to out of wedlock births and single parent households.

So same sex marriage will make us all rich.
Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at April 04, 2015 01:15 PM (W5DcG)

Woohoo! So we got that going for us. Which is nice.

Posted by: BurtTC at April 04, 2015 01:17 PM (Dj0WE)

453 Help Barronelle gofundme now north of $70,000. Good job, everyone.

Posted by: OregonMuse at April 04, 2015 01:18 PM (w2MRj)

454 The Walter Williams roadmap out of poverty: "Complete high school; get a job, any kind of a job; get married before having children; and be a law-abiding citizen..

Going to church helps, too, I think.

Posted by: OregonMuse at April 04, 2015 01:19 PM (w2MRj)

455 @ 447

Churning out 150wpd covers the slow to type from my end.

Posted by: irongrampa at April 04, 2015 01:20 PM (jeCnD)

456 Once more the principle that conservatives are not any use at boycotts but brilliant at buycotts is proven.

Don't boycott businesses you do not like. Buy from businesses you DO like. Promote them, and work with them. Be positive and proactive.

Its not very useful to stop using Yelp, since you probably never did to begin with. But donating to help Memories Pizza... big impact.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 04, 2015 01:20 PM (39g3+)

457 451 The Walter Williams roadmap out of poverty: "Complete high school; get a job, any kind of a job; get married before having children; and be a law-abiding citizen. Among both black and white Americans so described, the poverty rate is in the single digits."

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 04, 2015 01:16 PM (39g3+)

A bit of a fallacy, methinks. It's kind of like saying if you want to avoid poverty, have a trust fund.

I suspect people don't avoid poverty because they follow that roadmap, but rather people doing that are self-selected for character traits (particularly foresight and impulse control) that lead to success.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at April 04, 2015 01:23 PM (oKE6c)

458 Posted by: Jay Guevara at April 04, 2015 01:16 PM (oKE6c)

I think it's in society's interest to provide a "bottom" that prevents people from sinking too far.

Trouble becomes when because of government intervention more and more people find themselves there.

As it happens to be now.

All the inspirational/motivational/angry epithets of "get a job" don't help when the means doesn't exist for anyone to pull themselves out.

Those who are working still have the illusion that the country's doing fine and that telling someone to "get a job" is tough love. but THE JOBS AREN'T THERE. Or actually HERE.

They're over in India/China/Japan/Indonesia and as we've recently learned been taken by illegals being paid less than legally required under the counter with no taxes being taken out.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That at April 04, 2015 01:24 PM (zRby/)

459 You will always have the poor with you. - stuff some carpenter's son said once
Posted by: Count de Monet at April 04, 2015 01:13 PM (JO9+V)

This carpenter fellow seems like a righteous dude! Say, is there any collection out there of things he said and did? I could see that as being useful somehow... but no. I doubt the government would like us all thinking like that. If they found out about this guy, they'd probably string him up or something.

Posted by: BurtTC at April 04, 2015 01:24 PM (Dj0WE)

460 Its not very useful to stop using Yelp, since you probably never did to begin with. But donating to help Memories Pizza... big impact.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 04, 2015 01:20 PM (39g3+)

Is Yelp Red-infested too? My wife loves it.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at April 04, 2015 01:24 PM (oKE6c)

461 Sure, its not clear if his roadmap is because successful people tend to be that way or because those behaviors lead to success. But I refuse to think we're stamped into inflexible molds and forced into roles. I think people can change and do things differently if they choose to. Nobody compels someone to refuse to get a job and graduate. Nobody is forced to cat around having 18 baby daddies and break the law.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 04, 2015 01:25 PM (39g3+)

462 I think it's in society's interest to provide a "bottom" that prevents people from sinking too far.

Trouble becomes when because of government intervention more and more people find themselves there.

As it happens to be now.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That at April 04, 2015 01:24 PM (zRby/)

Agreed, on all counts.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at April 04, 2015 01:25 PM (oKE6c)

463 Look there is nothing wrong with a person donating to charities to help people if that is what he or she wants to do. People should be free to do what they like with their own money. When it is taken from people, or it is an obligation, that is not freedom. If I choose to help someone, it is because I have deemed that person worthy of my help. There is nothing worse then going out of your way to help someone who doesn't appreciate it or doesn't do the work to help him or herself. Fact is, you can't help anyone that isn't working hard to change and improve his or her life. The giver can't do anything, in fact, to help anyone. It still comes down to the individual to make the changes.

Posted by: Mistress Overdone at April 04, 2015 01:26 PM (2/oBD)

464 Recently on twitter, a really good question:

@RichardGrenell has anyone from the WhiteHouse press corps actually broken news in 7 years?

But he doesn't go back far enough. When is the last time the press corps broke a news story? Ever? The Reagan administration?

All they seem to exist for is to repeat what administration after administration tells them.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 04, 2015 01:27 PM (39g3+)

465 427
I've been desperately poor in my life. I know how stressful it can be if you just get a parking ticket, or a a flat tire. People who think that money isn't important or think that people shouldn't worry about money are those that have always had it. I do fine now, but I take money very seriously. Money is very important, and those that pretend it isn't, are anti-capitalists that have always had it. They are part of the problem.

No matter what, we are all responsible for our own condition in life. Our life is our own, regardless of the cards we have been dealt, and no one is going to "save" us. We have to save our selves, create our own lives, and be our own heroes. To think otherwise is to shirk responsibility. Life is not easy, but for those that take ownership of thier lives, there is a way out of poverty. Each and every one of us creates our own lives. No one is going to do it for ya!

Posted by: Mistress Overdone at April 04, 2015 01:04 PM (2/oBD)

Another home run.

You're a regular Babe Ruth, you know?

Posted by: rickl at April 04, 2015 01:28 PM (sdi6R)

466 But I refuse to think we're stamped into inflexible molds and forced into roles. I think people can change and do things differently if they choose to. Nobody compels someone to refuse to get a job and graduate. Nobody is forced to cat around having 18 baby daddies and break the law.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 04, 2015 01:25 PM (39g3+)

My position on this is (ahem) nuanced. I think most people's lives follow internal trajectories that in principle can be changed, but very few people have the character, industriousness, foresight, and strength of will in fact to change them. As evidence I point to the popularity of the "quick, easy, painless" fixes to, e.g., obesity and poverty that exert such a siren call to so many.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at April 04, 2015 01:29 PM (oKE6c)

467 All they seem to exist for is to repeat what administration after administration tells them.
Posted by: Christopher
----------------

A clearing house for WH policy and press releases. True of the MSM at large.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at April 04, 2015 01:30 PM (vPh3W)

468 Look there is nothing wrong with a person donating to charities to help people if that is what he or she wants to do. People should be free to do what they like with their own money. When it is taken from people, or it is an obligation, that is not freedom. If I choose to help someone, it is because I have deemed that person worthy of my help. There is nothing worse then going out of your way to help someone who doesn't appreciate it or doesn't do the work to help him or herself. Fact is, you can't help anyone that isn't working hard to change and improve his or her life. The giver can't do anything, in fact, to help anyone. It still comes down to the individual to make the changes.
Posted by: Mistress Overdone at April 04, 2015 01:26 PM (2/oBD)

Sure.

However, what do you do when you encounter that person who neither wants to try to better himself, nor appears to have the means to do so?

Do you walk away?

The Christian who chooses charity will still help this man. Will feed this man, clothe him, give him a place to rest his head. And expect nothing in return.

Many people cannot do that, because they see a futility in it, and many are very frustrated we have a government who coddles such folks.

Still, the Christian will feed, clothe, and shelter that man.

Why? Well... it's probably not necessary to spell it out. Either you know why, or you don't, and if you don't, there are ways to find out why.

Posted by: BurtTC at April 04, 2015 01:31 PM (Dj0WE)

469 "Communism isn't about helping your family or your neighbor. It's
about not allowing any private enterprise or private property. It's
about controlling all means of production.

Correct, which is why its not remotely even beginning to maybe be similar to Christianity in any sense of the word."

Right ... and the control didn't spawn from anything Christian, it has been around forever. Putting "commune" in communism ... is the allure though. I'm just saying it didn't derive from Christianity.

Of course some of the forcing from the Catholic church over the dark ages was aligned with the kings, but that is separate from Christianity. This is a problem I have with saying Peter was the first pope, or that Jesus built his church on Peter and future popes. Christians don't need to pay indulgences, or go through an earthly institute to have intercession with God.

But church bodies can work together for chosen good per their free will.

Posted by: Illiniwek at April 04, 2015 01:31 PM (QGjci)

470 The reason so many misunderstand money is that they think of it in terms of dollars. It isn't. Money is an abstract method of exchanging services. All economics is barter; we get coupons in the shape of dollars that represent goods and services we provide. Instead of paying for my water with a chicken or a few hours chopping wood, I pay with a coupon that represents whatever work I did in the past.

Its streamlining barter so that it doesn't matter what kind of labor you provide, its useful to everyone. Not everybody needs me to write a book but if I pay in dollars, they can get what they do need with that.

Because of the present system we've lost track of that and see only the intermediate.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 04, 2015 01:31 PM (39g3+)

471 BurtTC

Same sex couples, particularly male same sex couples, are estimated to have huge disposable income. They typically don't have children, but they have two incomes. They are a great demographic to go after for any business.

Posted by: Mistress Overdone at April 04, 2015 01:33 PM (2/oBD)

472 Same sex couples, particularly male same sex couples, are estimated to have huge disposable income. They typically don't have children, but they have two incomes. They are a great demographic to go after for any business.
Posted by: Mistress Overdone at April 04, 2015 01:33 PM (2/oBD)

_________

Except if you sell wedding cakes.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at April 04, 2015 01:35 PM (0LHZx)

473 463 Look there is nothing wrong with a person donating to charities to help people if that is what he or she wants to do. People should be free to do what they like with their own money. When it is taken from people, or it is an obligation, that is not freedom. If I choose to help someone, it is because I have deemed that person worthy of my help. There is nothing worse then going out of your way to help someone who doesn't appreciate it or doesn't do the work to help him or herself. Fact is, you can't help anyone that isn't working hard to change and improve his or her life. The giver can't do anything, in fact, to help anyone. It still comes down to the individual to make the changes.

Posted by: Mistress Overdone at April 04, 2015 01:26 PM (2/oBD)

Rickl is right: you ARE a regular Babe Ruth.

And you've hit upon the fundamental fatal flaw in government charity: the absence of any assessment of the worthiness of the candidate for assistance. The bum standing on the street corner who wants $5? No. Buy your own Ripple. The down and outer who doesn't ask for cash, but for something to eat? Sure.

A private individual can make that determination, but the government cannot/will not, especially now that leftists love to talk about being "non-judgmental." Exercising judgment is EXACTLY what adults do, all the time. This is good, that's bad, the other is indifferent. It's called "adulthood."

Posted by: Jay Guevara at April 04, 2015 01:35 PM (oKE6c)

474 Homosexuals tend to be in career arcs that pay really well too. I remember well the "Hollywood deaths from AIDS" tribute Premier magazine used to do annually in the early 90s. It was 99% dance choreographers, makeup artists, costume designers and other stereotypical homosexual work.

I think they figured out it was just proving the stereotype and stopped doing it after a few years.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 04, 2015 01:35 PM (39g3+)

475 Illiwek

The appeal of communism finds its roots in Christianity. That is what I was trying to say. Communism is one of the most vile, evil ideologies that man has yet devised. 100 million people have died under this ideology, yet it still has an appeal because it is about "sharing" and helping "the poor." It does nothing of the sort. It makes people slaves of the state. period.

Posted by: Mistress Overdone at April 04, 2015 01:35 PM (2/oBD)

476 Exercising judgment is EXACTLY what adults do, all the time. This is good, that's bad, the other is indifferent. It's called "adulthood."

Same thing with discrimination, which is just another word for judging and choosing. Mature people are able to do so wisely, but stupid people think discrimination is always evil and must be stopped at the point of a gun.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 04, 2015 01:37 PM (39g3+)

477 470 The reason so many misunderstand money is that they think of it in terms of dollars. It isn't. Money is an abstract method of exchanging services. All economics is barter; we get coupons in the shape of dollars that represent goods and services we provide. Instead of paying for my water with a chicken or a few hours chopping wood, I pay with a coupon that represents whatever work I did in the past.

Its streamlining barter so that it doesn't matter what kind of labor you provide, its useful to everyone. Not everybody needs me to write a book but if I pay in dollars, they can get what they do need with that.

Because of the present system we've lost track of that and see only the intermediate.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 04, 2015 01:31 PM (39g3+)

An almost verbatim transcript of one of my dinner table rants to the little Guevaras, this one entitled "Do not confuse money with wealth."

Posted by: Jay Guevara at April 04, 2015 01:38 PM (oKE6c)

478 474 Homosexuals tend to be in career arcs that pay really well too. I remember well the "Hollywood deaths from AIDS" tribute Premier magazine used to do annually in the early 90s. It was 99% dance choreographers, makeup artists, costume designers and other stereotypical homosexual work.

I think they figured out it was just proving the stereotype and stopped doing it after a few years.
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 04, 2015 01:35 PM (39g3+)

__________

Totally. Tim Cook, CEO of Apple started his career as a Broadway makeup artist. Wait what?

Or....it could be that back in the good old days when gays were mostly in the closet, they only ones who felt comfortable coming out were those who worked in "stereotypical gay jobs" since it wouldn't hurt their career.

I know this may sound crazy to you, but there's a good chance you have had an iteration with a gay doctor or nurse or lawyer or accountant or IT tech support person at some point in your life. You probably had a gay teacher or two growing up as well.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at April 04, 2015 01:40 PM (0LHZx)

479 Same thing with discrimination, which is just another word for judging and choosing. Mature people are able to do so wisely, but stupid people think discrimination is always evil and must be stopped at the point of a gun.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 04, 2015 01:37 PM (39g3+)

Exactly.

In this context I note that MLK's exhortation to judge people by the content of their characters rather than the color of their skins does not mean, as it is currently taken to mean, that the color of their skin can protect them from an adverse assessment of their character.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at April 04, 2015 01:41 PM (oKE6c)

480 thx MO, I see your point now. I'm not sure when the allure of Kings making false promises about the common good began ... I find it hard to believe it was so recent. Maybe calling it communism is new.

... and besides free will giving to the church, our right to peaceably
assemble, and form groups, means we give to any group as we see fit,
without government control. Of course free market trade is just an
extension of that. Free Choice always being the key ... Liberty.

Posted by: Illiniwek at April 04, 2015 01:41 PM (QGjci)

481 Homosexuals tend to be in career arcs that pay really well too
---------
For some reason the gay immigrant roofers don't make it into the typical magazine profiles. The more' financially successful' homosexual or the occasional lesbian mayor is more likely to be profiled and to participate in salary surveys.

Posted by: RioBravo at April 04, 2015 01:43 PM (NUqwG)

482 In this context I note that MLK's exhortation to judge people by the content of their characters rather than the color of their skins does not mean, as it is currently taken to mean, that the color of their skin can protect them from an adverse assessment of their character.
Posted by: Jay Guevara at April 04, 2015 01:41 PM (oKE6c)

____________

I said this to a leftie: I'm living MLK's dream. I'm judging Obama by the content of his character, which is why I don't like him. I saw the faintest twinkle in her eye and I think she sorta kinda got it. For a second. Then she went back to racism.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at April 04, 2015 01:44 PM (0LHZx)

483 People who eschew burglary as a vocation are more likely to avoid prison than those who do not.

Posted by: toby928(C) notes at April 04, 2015 01:44 PM (rwI+c)

484 For some reason the gay immigrant roofers don't make
it into the typical magazine profiles. The more' financially
successful' homosexual or the occasional lesbian mayor is more likely to
be profiled and to participate in salary surveys.

Posted by: RioBravo at April 04, 2015 01:43 PM (NUqwG)

What about that Sunday supplement profile on Maricon Roofing Company?

Posted by: Jay Guevara at April 04, 2015 01:45 PM (oKE6c)

485 There aren't enough conservatives to support a political party. That's what being a minority means.

Posted by: JohnJ at April 04, 2015 01:45 PM (x9Ugh)

486 i reject defeatism and absurdity.

Secessio plebis!

Posted by: Shoey at April 04, 2015 01:46 PM (vA94g)

487 Posted by: JohnJ

Apropos of nothing, did you ever do the twitter apology thing?

Posted by: toby928(C) notes at April 04, 2015 01:50 PM (rwI+c)

488 People who eschew burglary as a vocation are more likely to avoid prison than those who do not.
Posted by: toby928(C) notes at April 04, 2015 01:44 PM (rwI+c)

I don't know if this thread is dead or not, but I think it is worth noting, there really are such things are career criminals. These are the folks who, when the career specialists showed up at high school, they didn't choose college, or trade school, or rodeo clown, or longshoreman's school.

No, they chose Crime. So now, one day they rob somebody, the next they rape, the day after that they steal cable from the neighbors. Do you have a law on the books? Good, they're going to violate it.

Why? Because they are criminals! And yet we, as a society, tend to think of sex offenders and sex offenders, murderers as murderers, robbers as robbers and so on and so forth.

Generally, if you look in prison, you have a guy who is a career criminal. Which is another reason I am not particularly concerned with legalizing drugs or whatever. If we did, the same people would be in prisons.

Posted by: BurtTC at April 04, 2015 01:51 PM (Dj0WE)

489 Oh, so this one is TWO threads dead already...

Posted by: BurtTC at April 04, 2015 01:54 PM (Dj0WE)

490 Generally, if you look in prison, you have a guy who
is a career criminal.

Posted by: BurtTC at April 04, 2015 01:51 PM (Dj0WE)
In grad school I lived in a large house, one of whose residents turned out to be the wife a guy in prison. He was obviously a career criminal, and a lifelong nitwit too, by all accounts. I never met him (fortunately), but apparently his specialty was burgling a house, then calling the victim to offer to sell back to him the stuff that had been stolen, with Einstein failing to perceive the small but noticeable flaw in his cunning plan.

So he'd show up carrying the stolen stuff (aka "evidence"), right into the arms of the cops. He'd gotten out of prison, and then did exactly the same thing a second time. Maybe he was just a good scientist, and wanted to see if the observation was reproducible. It was.
Now to the character part of the anecdote. According to wifey, he was pissed at the injustice of it all.

"Injustice?" I asked. "He did commit the crime(s), right?"
"Oh, sure, but lots of other people committed similar crimes, and had gotten away with it. So it was so unfair that he'd be imprisoned when others hadn't been."
"Oh."

Posted by: Jay Guevara at April 04, 2015 02:00 PM (oKE6c)

491 The Democrats used to be a sane, patriotic party. Far left outside groups like Code Pink got so powerful they pulled the party left.

The GOP is squishy and always has been. The only conservative things they do are when there is a strong outside interest group like the NRA pulling them. We need more NRAs. More pro-life movements. Big, loud groups with an active devoted following. Immigration would be a good place to start.

Posted by: adolfo_velasquez at April 04, 2015 02:03 PM (whxbn)

492 Hilarious story, Jay,

Sad to see someone so stupid, but I laughed, anyway.

Posted by: OregonMuse at April 04, 2015 02:05 PM (w2MRj)

493 492 Hilarious story, Jay,

Sad to see someone so stupid, but I laughed, anyway.

Posted by: OregonMuse at April 04, 2015 02:05 PM (w2MRj)

Thanks, OM. The hard part was keeping a straight face when wifey told the story.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at April 04, 2015 02:07 PM (oKE6c)

494 I think this might be a record for comments in a Fundamental Concepts post.

Posted by: rickl at April 04, 2015 02:27 PM (sdi6R)

495 THIS is the thing you must understand about politics or you will go mad: There is no Victory. There is no Defeat. There is only War.

Posted by: DriveBy at April 04, 2015 03:05 PM (C9Vc8)

496 I think all the Governments and their cronies are out of real capital. The Fed has been able to cover their bad checks so far but food production and distribution is faltering. Untrained (in useful skills), desperate, ambitious, and morally bankrupt describes most of our so called leaders. Currently they are stabbing in the back any capable person because capable people threaten their so called success. At some point this will stop. God willing before too many people die.

Posted by: theTruth at April 04, 2015 03:30 PM (PGh+Q)

497 You should measure inflation for those things that people must buy and for taxes.

Why measure the effect. The cause is the devaluation via dilution of the $ relative to the GDP. Does anybody not culpable in the fraud do and publish that math?

Posted by: DaveA at April 04, 2015 03:34 PM (DL2i+)

498 I think it's just that most people can't believe the U.S. would ever break up, but a dissolution of a nation or nations isn't anything new for mankind. I don't believe it will be some post apocalyptic scenario we see in fiction, they'll just be large groups that that will reject the authority of the government left standing and draw up new borders and governments that best represent themselves. I don't think there will be a civil war, hell I don't even think the majority of the left will really care if we share a country when the collapse comes.

Posted by: lowandslow at April 04, 2015 10:46 AM (OBbk5) '

If that were the case, the Left would have adopted a "live and let live" principle on Indiana's and Arkansas' RFRAs. No, they want to dominate us, enslave us, and if you believe the worst about them as I do, ultimately kill us.

They will use every weapon in their arsenal, and I mean EVERY FUCKING WEAPON, to try and crush a national divorce, and, as they will enlist the aid of the rest of the world, they'll probably succeed.

Oh well, who wants to live forever on this shithole?

Posted by: steveegg at April 04, 2015 03:39 PM (cL79m)

499 I know this may sound crazy to you, but there's a good chance you have had an iteration with a gay doctor or nurse or lawyer or accountant or IT tech support person at some point in your life. You probably had a gay teacher or two growing up as well.
Posted by: Mr. Moo
-------------

If your point is that doctors, nurses, teachers, & etc. are also capable of bad behavior, it is well made.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at April 04, 2015 03:46 PM (vPh3W)

500 Just a question for the "I'm so fed up with the GOP that I'm leaving forever, just as soon as I finally get around to it" crowd.

Think of yourself. Should be easy enough. How many times in your life have you joined an organization, a cause, a movement, or a campaign?

Of those times, how many did you join because they were led by whining, complaining malcontents?

Good luck with your new Party, Sports! Just hurry up and start it instead of wasting more time whining about it, mmmkay? Remember, we can't start to miss you until you go the hell away.

Posted by: Adjoran at April 04, 2015 03:47 PM (QIQ6j)

501 "Injustice?" I asked. "He did commit the crime(s), right?"
"Oh, sure, but lots of other people committed similar crimes, and had gotten away with it. So it was so unfair that he'd be imprisoned when others hadn't been."
"Oh."
Posted by: Jay
-----------------------

I recall an article by a prison psychiatrist. He commented that with almost unfailing regularity his 'clients' would say that they just "fell in with the wrong crowd". He wryly observed that it never seemed to occur to his 'clients' that they were the wrong crowd.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at April 04, 2015 03:51 PM (vPh3W)

502 Good luck with your new Party, Sports!

Good luck when ignore_user() reaches the polls.

I gotta stop zapping cookies

Posted by: DaveA at April 04, 2015 03:53 PM (DL2i+)

503 I think this might be a record for comments in a Fundamental Concepts post.

By far. LOL. And it's the one I knew nobody would like. I think there's a lesson to be learned or something, good thing I don't write these just for the number of comments.

Posted by: Weirddave at April 04, 2015 03:57 PM (WvS3w)

504 "I think this might be a record for comments in a Fundamental Concepts post."

These make my Saturdays. It was another great post n an awesome series. (Thanks, Weirddave!)

Posted by: FireHorse at April 04, 2015 04:04 PM (8LT/S)

505 The difference here in the USA is the amount of arms and ammunition in the citizens hands. The tyrannical government has to overcome or obviate that.

The Founders (esp. T. Jefferson) knew we would have to fight to preserve Liberty again and again. Hence the 2nd Amendment.

Posted by: AZ Hi Desert (All my hate cannot be found) at April 04, 2015 04:10 PM (l7Kbv)

506 As for the larger issue, the big problem is the leadership (such as it is) of the GOP took this lesson from the 2012 election:

We must move to and remain no more than 2 inches to the right of the Democrat Party, no matter how far left they move.

They then spent the last 2+ years ensuring that not just the leadership, but the majority of the elected, of the party adopted that explicit "Conservatives are not welcome beyond the voting booth" mentality.

Tell me what good is having 20 of 45-to-55, or 50 of 190-to-240? You're a minority-of-a-minority (or worse, a minority-of-a-majority). I'd rather have 20 of 100 and 50 of 435, with a shot of getting at least 33 of 100 and 146 of 435.

Posted by: steveegg at April 04, 2015 04:21 PM (cL79m)

507 Immigration would be a good place to start.

Posted by: adolfo_velasquez at April 04, 2015 02:03 PM (whxbn)

This, a thousand times.

Posted by: Hurricane LaFawnduh at April 04, 2015 04:28 PM (laMCB)

508 No. We don't win. That's the tough part in all of this. We can never win.

----You win when enough of them die. As it has always worked throughout history.

Learn this, and learn it well.

Posted by: Trump at April 04, 2015 04:48 PM (EQcBC)

509 So instead of not backing the GOPe and letting Rome burn in a day, we are supposed to back the GOPe and burn it more slowly?

I see.

Posted by: Valiant at April 04, 2015 04:49 PM (4rlxS)

510 Fucking Romney.

Posted by: toby928(C) notes at April 04, 2015 04:59 PM (rwI+c)

511 The problem with that is loans are paid with interest which takes more out of the system than the initial loan, so they have to make more loans just to avoid deflation/disinflation. At some point you run out of borrowers and that process ends spectacularly.
Posted by: Methos at April 04, 2015 10:48 AM (ZbV+0)
==================
That was basically Piketty's argument in his "Capital in the Twenty-First Century." But the error is in the assumption that return in excess of growth is unlimited. That's not true: you cannot have return without growth. Piketty's r > g formula is misstated as a difference, whereas it should be stated as a ratio. Without growth, the return is starved and accordingly is limited.

Posted by: LCMS Rulz! at April 04, 2015 05:00 PM (TqyFL)

512 235
"It wasn't Ace, Peter, but thanks for your concern about social cons."

I wasn't talking about Drew, I was talking about Ace and his weepy retreat from TV. If you surrender the popular culture to liberals, guess who is left to shape the popular culture that shapes the masses of LIVs?

Instead of whining, sulking, Benedict Option retreats on all fronts, we need to do just the opposite, attack and supply opposition on all fronts. There isn't any place left to hide out until it's all "over". I would've thought Memories Pizza would've taught a few people that lesson at least.

Posted by: Peter at April 04, 2015 05:07 PM (GjcK8)

513 Unlike Open Blogger, I am not a queer, a coward nor a dumb ass, so I will be voting for option 1, Let It Burn.

Posted by: Lock And Load at April 04, 2015 05:11 PM (wbx7D)

514 We have a huge behemoth, heading us for certain destruction. How on earth to arrest such a monster, and tame it to our purposes?

You don't. You deflect it. Ever so slightly at first, so slightly that you don't notice that there has been any change of direction. However, if you cease to apply the pressure for deflecting it, it will not miss it's targeted destruction; hell, it may even self-correct to it's original path of demise.

So you keep the pressure on; you keep pushing it, pushing it. Over time - way more time than we're happy with - the course change becomes noticeable. As it becomes noticeable, more folks join the pushing, pushing. The effects accumulate and, one is hopeful, disaster averted.

Congress IS getting more (small 'c') conservative; the States ARE beginning to assert their power away from DC; State legislators are becoming more Republican which, if not generally all that cheery of a thought among the morons, at least is not as lefty as has been.

Ever so slightly at first, but just like compound interest it eventually grows large enough to overwhelm. I'm not done hoping yet.

Posted by: LCMS Rulz! at April 04, 2015 05:21 PM (TqyFL)

515 I went to some Oathkeepers meetings. Nice people, but it was almost all "prepper" stuff. Which I'm interested in, I always like any kind of Do It Yourself thing. But that's not really what I thought OK was about. One of the big things they were doing was this Ham radio stuff, where they all went out and got licenses, which, I'm sorry I just thought was kinda funny: Here Feds, here is a nice list of our identities and callsigns and stuff!

They are relying on other people's repeaters. I mean, okay sure, go for it, whatever.

Don't get me wrong! I like those guys, and I'm all for Ham radio, it's totally cool stuff. I listen to their weekend radio meeting thing once in awhile. And I'm all for good comms, and planning, etc. etc. I am not trying to knock them. They were good guys and it was time well spent, but I'm not sure it's for me.

For example, I heard these comments like "how am I going to keep my neighbors from stealing my food & water" stuff like that.

Well, the short answer is, "You won't." Right? I mean, I hope that's not a controversial observation. I'm not saying you don't try, I'm saying that if somebody is determined to get in your house, and your house is made out of pine wood, well they can get in. They don't need a mechanized infantry division, they just need a bic lighter.

I didn't say too much of this in the meetings, these guys were very determined to have that movie play out the way they wanted, and many of them were pretty emotional about it. So I didn't argue.

And I'm thinking well how the heck will I have a chance to survive civil disorder anyways? Maybe they're right? Is it guns? Is it a Fraternal Order of Police sticker on the window? lol WHAT CAN I DO TO BE SAAAAFE?!!!

And I realized, well nothing really. I mean, before you go on a long trip, you check the tires and fluid levels, you know, you try to rule out obvious dumb mistakes, so we are working on that kind of stuff. But I can't go to the store and buy a box of "90 Days Of Continuing To Wake Up On Earth", I just have to keep rolling the dice.

But one of my ideas is the Front Yard Bread Oven. Rather than pillboxes and punji stake traps and presighting every nook and cranny in my neighborhood, I thought, how about I just bake bread in my front yard?

THE FRONT YARD FREE LOAF SURVIVAL PLAN
(or, how to get the bees nest to do the stinging *for* you)

Get me some fire bricks. Put a few dozen 50 pound sacks of flour, and sugar and stuff in my basement. Get me a new bottle of LP gas every month. If The Troubles come, I just start baking bread in my front yard oven, and giving bread away.

The neighborhood will smell great. Man, when you are hungry, fresh bread just smells awesome. People will show up. I'll get the latest news delivered to me. People will barter, and post messages on the bulletin board, this is kinda how trading posts get started I guess?

Soon, people in my neighborhood will see me and my house and family as a strategic resource. They will have a vested interest in looking out for us.

We can stand in the front yard and exchange news and rumors, tell stupid jokes and just take a break sometimes, try to come up with ideas and plans, swap gear and ask for partners and help. We can get more done working together than just on our own.

I'll be plugged in to the people around me, rather than hiding out from them. And this is very affordable, compared to some stuff I see preppers doing (again not to knock anybody, it's just that flour is cheap.)

It's a natural way to get people to calm down and try to work together--who doesn't like fresh hot bread? My first order of business will be figuring out a scheme to get people to fetch water and fuel for me, in exchange for extra bread. Whatever, I haven't worked it all out.

But here is what I *do* know: everybody then, just like everybody now, will be thinking, "How do I protect me and mine?! How do I keep all these sketchy people away!" all that stuff. I've tried stuff along these lines before, and many people just *light up* when they realize there is another way, where people can work together. Not everybody is trustworthy, but some are. These things can work out, not always but pretty often, particularly when you get the ball rolling and offer a better starting point.

It's either that, or paranoia and holing up with a rifle across my knees in my basement waiting in the dark for the mongol horde to kick my door in and I ain't doin' that.

So yeah, I'm gonna focus on right here, my turf, where I have a little say. Fixing America, as in, the-whole-country, setting policy, the important work of the big ideas, all that stuff, I learned long ago that The Experts (and there are plenty of them) don't wanna hear no shit outta me no ways.

But they'll still grab a fresh hot roll and set a spell. :-D

They will come to some conclusion or another on their own, and they will hand down the new rules, Meet The New Boss, all that, and I'll recalibrate. That has happened again and again in my life already, that's not new.

So I just try to keep the sails up, keep bailing, do what I can. The Big Plan, I don't really understand how politics works, really. I don't really think I'm a good source for big political plans, stuff like that. But I do believe in loyalty and being there for the people I care about.

Posted by: Deputy Director Higgins at April 04, 2015 05:33 PM (IxEWc)

516 Never mind Camus. GKC. Ballad of the White Horse.

The whole point of what is called "conservatism" - meaning, in this country, Classical Liberalism - is that scouring away the ever-encroaching grime is one of those basic facts, that reality, with which our views, unlike the Left's, are congruent. It's not taking counsel of one's fears, or opting out like Kierkegaard, or any of that happy horseshit: it's doing the work, knowing that you'll have to do it again sooner or later. Like dishes, or painting the house. When in the Sam Hill were we ever afraid of that?

Posted by: Markham Shaw Pyle at April 04, 2015 05:49 PM (WlkUc)

517 ...which is the better hire?
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 04, 2015 11:40 AM (39g3+)

Do they meet your expectations of performance? Do they accomplish what they are supposed to accomplish?

If not, fire 'em and replace them with someone who does. If they meet your requirements, what's the problem? Aren't you running a business?

Posted by: Lie down with lions, never get up at April 04, 2015 06:03 PM (TqyFL)

518 I laugh at all the Blue Staters who are drowning in smug. They think that they are the engine of commerce, when in fact that are not, at the fundamental level.

If there is a broader collapse, who will be more important: the SJW or the small farmer? The stock broker or the well driller?

The Red States are generally populated by people who 'do' and that will always be important. Perhaps much more important in the coming years.

Posted by: Afroman at April 04, 2015 06:34 PM (8SLAU)

519 Good article, I agree

I think too many conservatives put a ridiculous standard on what can be accomplished by elected leaders, and candidates and positions are taken to a level where it's almost like arguing over theology.

If conservatives threw in the towel on electoral politics, I can assure things would get much worse very quickly. It would most certainly burn. And some sort of pre-New Deal America would not rise out of the ashes. Think something closer to Venezuela.

I would be jumping up and down if the Left said "Let it Burn" and gave up on the Democrat Party.

Posted by: Kal at April 04, 2015 06:41 PM (O97Ii)

520 519 Kal,

Their communists demanded the party go crazy and they complied....

Our party refuses to take the left at its word and fight them.

Posted by: Sven10077 at April 04, 2015 06:59 PM (/4AZU)

521 Hswssssssghssssssghgh...an ex-valet at a bar says something like..fuck you manbut i got your phone# on and fucku..i got his # and b.dennehy came up..dudes point was so what?lets roll...NMSSSSSSSSSSSSsswwwwswswswwwssswsssss...

Posted by: stephen livingston seagull at April 04, 2015 07:00 PM (UFPdl)

522 500 Posted by: Adjoran at April 04, 2015 03:47 PM (QIQ6j)

Good luck winning the future with Donkey Party version 2.0....

If you could spend your way to universal prosperity we'd have been there by 1979...

Posted by: Sven S Blade a.k.a. El Assassin@sven10077 at April 04, 2015 07:19 PM (/4AZU)

523 Their communists demanded the party go crazy and they complied....

Our party refuses to take the left at its word and fight them.

Posted by: Sven10077

I think the problem is, we have a situation where it's getting to the point where we're going to have to "shoot the hostage" so to speak and many in office just aren't comfortable with that.

No one has ever as flagrantly pushed the boundaries of their office like Obama has.

Posted by: Kal at April 04, 2015 07:32 PM (13G+x)

524 This is a dead thread, but weirddave, you've already given up. Therefore you can't win. So you will die when the balloon goes up.

Posted by: AZ Hi Desert (All my hate cannot be found) at April 04, 2015 07:44 PM (l7Kbv)

525 The price of freedom is eternal vigilance.

'Twas ever thus.

Posted by: Beverly at April 04, 2015 09:00 PM (SSWUB)

526 BTW, if you want something useful to do that doesn't involve party politics, go read "Rules for Radicals" and use it. Don't treat it like an enemy bible, use it like an instruction manual.

And this thing about not hunting heads? Fie on that. Take them out. Find their foibles, broadcast them, ruin them, put them in poverty. That's how it's done.

Posted by: DriveBy at April 04, 2015 09:08 PM (C9Vc8)

527 People are conflating the national GOP organization with the GOP in individual states. They are two different animals. Because reps in individual states are virtually anonymous, and are in the thousands, and are basically local personalities they are not cowed by the national media. And the GOP is continuing to have great success in state governments. GOP now controls 30 state legislatures.

I'll put my faith in the growing federalism coming from state governments who have had it with mandates coming down from Washington, and are pursing nullification, resurgence of the 10th amendment, and invoking Article 5.

Posted by: Levin at April 04, 2015 10:08 PM (ANvDa)

528 Excellent post, thanks for refuting his defeatist, whiney pussy bullshit.
We can't "win" but we can push this crap way the hell back if we get into the game.

Posted by: DrewM sucks at April 04, 2015 10:52 PM (EgbCN)

529 I've had it with this "this is the best we can do" bullshit. If you enjoy getting fucked in the ass then, by all means, vote republican.

Posted by: Mikey at April 04, 2015 11:20 PM (Uff7i)

530 This is a dead thread, but weirddave, you've already given up. Therefore
you can't win. So you will die when the balloon goes up.

I can still put 8 out of 10 inside the 8 ring at 25 yards and 20 out of 30 within minute of asshole at 100. Since my entire thesis is that ultimate failure is inevitable, it wouldn't be prudent for me not to be prepared in case it comes on my watch, wouldn't it?

Posted by: Weirddave at April 04, 2015 11:48 PM (WvS3w)

531 Driveby

Rules for Radicals is a tome that every last conservative and Republican should read. I wish our establishment buddies would read it. I wish Boehner and McConnell would read it. If you read this instruction manual for carrying out extreme evil, you will finally understand what we are up against. To the leftist radical, the ends DOES justify the means. They will lie, cheat, and steal to achieve their ends, and they don't care. It's time to definitely use it ourselves. People need to know about Cloward-Piven, and they need to know what tactics are going to be used so as to ever be on the offensive. We are always playing defense, and it is time we stopped. Since Obama has greatly expanded the power of the presidency in an awful way, perhaps it's time to put someone in the white house that will dish out what the left has just served up. They deserve a does of their own ram-it-down-your throat medicine.

Posted by: Mistress Overdone at April 05, 2015 12:32 AM (2/oBD)

532 I shamelessly plucked a paragraph from this article and sent it to my elected GP Senator, who is as useless as this article implies. He cannot think for himself and is only allowed to vote "right" if it doesn't affect the outcome of the vote.

Posted by: Ken James at April 05, 2015 09:14 AM (eqp7A)

533 I shamelessly plucked a paragraph from this article and sent it to my elected GP Senator, who is as useless as this article implies. He cannot think for himself and is only allowed to vote "right" if it doesn't affect the outcome of the vote.

Posted by: Ken James at April 05, 2015 09:14 AM (eqp7A)

534 And I realized, well nothing really. I mean, before you go on a long trip, you check the tires and fluid levels, you know, you try to rule out obvious dumb mistakes, so we are working on that kind of stuff. But I can't go to the store and buy a box of "90 Days Of Continuing To Wake Up On Earth", I just have to keep rolling the dice.

And that's ultimately how you have to face all of life. Make reasonable preparations, act intelligently and with discernment, do right, and deal with what comes. You can't fix everything, you can't be ready for everything. There's no perfect solution, this side of fiction.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at April 05, 2015 10:36 AM (39g3+)

535 The "cut the grass" metaphor in intriguing. Right now we've been putting off cutting the grass and it is growing like an SOB. The weeds are pushing and the grass is working its way up the downspout.

However it only takes the same amount of time of mowing and weed-eating to get the grass right again. One Reagan (or whoever it is that has guts) can get us back in track quickly. Who's going to go out and start the mower is the question?

Posted by: ConservativeYoda at April 05, 2015 05:09 PM (GyFXW)

536 I'm tired of being the adult in the room while the toddlers who scream and yell and respect nothing and no one get their way. I prefer to let it burn. Let the illegals and leftists fend for themselves when people are no longer willing to work and have money taken from them to feed and house the worthless scum.It will be interesting to watch them try to survive without the people they hate to support them. This is a country so corrupt that it reelected Obama. The people deserve what they are going to get.

Posted by: Hera at April 05, 2015 08:15 PM (uXsyC)

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