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Breaking: US And Cuba Exchange Prisoners. Set To Normalize Relations?
Cleaning up one of the last bits of the Cold War.
Cuba released U.S. citizen Alan Gross from prison Wednesday after five years in captivity. The U.S. released three alleged Cuban spies in return. The exchange is a result of a year of secret backtalks between the U.S. and Cuba. Raul Castro and President Obama will both speak, separately, around noon Eastern time.Apparently the talks were and are so wide ranging as to encompass the resumption of diplomatic relations. The two countries have had official relations since the Eisenhower administration. A lot of people on the right and in the Cuban-American expat community are going to go ballistic about this but let's be honest, it's time. Yes, the Castro regime is a brutal dictatorship but we do business with a lot of thuggish regimes. Some are even our friends (Hello Saudi Arabia). I think we've made our point after 60 years. We're basically the only country that doesn't have some sort of relationship with Cuba so it's not like we're breaking down some grand coalition here. The Russians are using Cuba as part of their plans to reinvigorate their power projection plans. Now with the Ruble in free fall and Russia teetering on the edge of economic collapse (thanks fracking!), maybe we can peel Cuba away from them. Plus...really cheap Caribbean vacations for Americans and the chance for more Cubans to come here will do a lot to bring down the decrepit shell of Castro's revolutionary paradise. On the domestic political front, it will be fascinating how Hillary and Jeb react to this. It's a touchy issue in the all important swing state of Florida.
Comments
(Jump to bottom of comments)Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - TrueCon at December 17, 2014 10:04 AM (kff5f)
Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - TrueCon at December 17, 2014 10:04 AM (kff5f)
Posted by: Berserker-Dragonheads Division at December 17, 2014 10:04 AM (FMbng)
Posted by: Adirondack Patriot at December 17, 2014 10:05 AM (iAUf+)
Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - TrueCon at December 17, 2014 10:05 AM (kff5f)
Posted by: DaveA at December 17, 2014 10:05 AM (DL2i+)
Posted by: DaveA at December 17, 2014 10:05 AM (DL2i+)
Posted by: anon a mouse at December 17, 2014 10:06 AM (/jpU8)
I denounce myself in advance.
Posted by: ScoggDog at December 17, 2014 10:06 AM (xWPj1)
Posted by: Minnfidel at December 17, 2014 10:06 AM (bXdYS)
Posted by: Talibill at December 17, 2014 10:06 AM (FGZtn)
I disagree. The US has tremendous economic power over Cuba....much greater than any other country. For instance, we could cut all economic ties to Saudi Arabia, but it would mean nothing.
Normalizing relations sends a clear message that in spite of their horrendous human rights record, all is forgiven.
Cuba is a repressive police state. There is no way around that. This move announces to the world that we simply do not care.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at December 17, 2014 10:07 AM (Zu3d9)
Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at December 17, 2014 10:07 AM (zF6Iw)
I know others do, and I'm sure their reasons are entirely valid. However, as someone who won't even be 35 for another couple of days, I never really understood why we continued the embargo in the first place.
As Drew mentioned, this started back when my parents were kids, and my wife's parents weren't even born yet (or if they were, they were 1 or 2 at the time).
Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - TrueCon at December 17, 2014 10:07 AM (kff5f)
Posted by: Colorado Alex at December 17, 2014 10:07 AM (10ydV)
I am curious about why the Russians don't sell their oil for rubles. It seems that there would be a significant increase in demand for rubles if you could buy something useful with them. Even if they just sold a limited amount of oil for rubles, it would seem that it could make a significant difference.
Posted by: Obnoxious A-Hole at December 17, 2014 10:07 AM (PD6iL)
Posted by: Shane McGowan's Liver at December 17, 2014 10:07 AM (hQfa+)
Posted by: Minnfidel at December 17, 2014 10:08 AM (bXdYS)
Time served for time on the run in Cuba, and full pardon/sentence commutation by (you know).
Makes me shudder.
Posted by: Andrew at December 17, 2014 10:08 AM (ck4sO)
Tell some of our Senators there will be access to plenty of underaged Cuban prostitutes, male and female, and I think you'll see a treaty of some sort that could be unanimously ratified.
Posted by: BurtTC at December 17, 2014 10:08 AM (TOk1P)
Is there anyone left in the world who thinks that we do?
About pretty much anything? (care, that is)
Posted by: anon a mouse at December 17, 2014 10:08 AM (/jpU8)
What's one more in the pot?
Posted by: Nip Sip at December 17, 2014 10:09 AM (0FSuD)
Posted by: Bigby's Knuckle Sandwich at December 17, 2014 10:09 AM (Cq0oW)
Posted by: Adirondack Patriot at December 17, 2014 10:09 AM (iAUf+)
Posted by: ScoggDog at December 17, 2014 10:09 AM (xWPj1)
Posted by: Pendejo Grande at December 17, 2014 10:09 AM (OZW5B)
Posted by: Minnfidel at December 17, 2014 10:09 AM (bXdYS)
Posted by: maddogg at December 17, 2014 10:09 AM (xWW96)
Posted by: Nip Sip at December 17, 2014 10:10 AM (0FSuD)
Yeah, the Cuba thing is a Cold War relic. We should get over it.
I think we'd have more influence on de-commifying them if we trade and travel.
Posted by: Bandersnatch at December 17, 2014 10:10 AM (JtwS4)
Posted by: Adirondack Patriot at December 17, 2014 10:05 AM (iAUf+)
Population of Miami set to triple! FL goes Dem forever and adopts Spanish as the state language!
I'm OK with that as long as the state cigar is the Romeo y Julieta Churchill.
Posted by: Hrothgar at December 17, 2014 10:10 AM (fL/7/)
Seriously. WTF does Cuba have to offer the US besides cigars.
Posted by: Talibill at December 17, 2014 10:06 AM (FGZtn)
50's cars and hooks.
Posted by: Nip Sip at December 17, 2014 10:10 AM (0FSuD)
Posted by: Bigby's Knuckle Sandwich at December 17, 2014 10:11 AM (Cq0oW)
Posted by: Jane D'oh at December 17, 2014 10:11 AM (FsuaD)
By definition... not. Since we currently have no commercial ties with Cuba. And by re-engaging in normalized relations, we have a much better shot at reforming Cuba than we do by continuing the embargo.
That said... Russia was a repressive police state. Open negotiations and (at least somewhat) normal relations with them were a solid part of bringing down the USSR (along with a lot actually smart (and strong) diplomacy, of course).
Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - TrueCon at December 17, 2014 10:11 AM (kff5f)
Posted by: seems legit at December 17, 2014 10:11 AM (A98Xu)
I concur. Seems like McDonald's and Levi Strauss have done more for foreign relations than any of the bastards in the State Department.
Posted by: ScoggDog at December 17, 2014 10:11 AM (xWPj1)
Posted by: Minnfidel at December 17, 2014 10:11 AM (bXdYS)
Yeah, the Cuba thing is a Cold War relic. We should get over it.
I think we'd have more influence on de-commifying them if we trade and travel. Posted by: Bandersnatch at December 17, 2014 10:10 AM (JtwS4) Sure thing, just like the rest of South America. We are ascendant.
Posted by: maddogg at December 17, 2014 10:11 AM (xWW96)
/looks around at Detroit, Chicago, and DC
//whistles tunelessly
Posted by: Brother Cavil, Unrepresented at December 17, 2014 10:11 AM (DT3rQ)
Posted by: Nip Sip at December 17, 2014 10:10 AM (0FSuD)
Well there you have it. I'm now on baord.
Posted by: Talibill at December 17, 2014 10:12 AM (FGZtn)
Posted by: Jane D'oh at December 17, 2014 10:12 AM (FsuaD)
Posted by: seems legit at December 17, 2014 10:12 AM (A98Xu)
Well,, This is my official reaction;
What difference, at this point, does it make?1/1/!!?/11!!?/?
Posted by: Hillary Clinton at December 17, 2014 10:12 AM (HSmrB)
11
Seriously. WTF does Cuba have to offer the US besides cigars.
Posted by: Talibill at December 17, 2014 10:06 AM (FGZtn)
Their "Wonderful" health care!
Posted by: Michael Moore at December 17, 2014 10:12 AM (0FSuD)
Choom Boy simply wants to compare notes with Uncle Fidel, and pick up a few new ideas for his
There must be a nice golf course or two near Havana....
Posted by: MrScribbler at December 17, 2014 10:13 AM (yAC3X)
Posted by: eman at December 17, 2014 10:13 AM (MQEz6)
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at December 17, 2014 10:07 AM (Zu3d9)
Do you seriously think the world thinks we care?
Posted by: Hrothgar at December 17, 2014 10:13 AM (fL/7/)
We are a huge market 90 miles away. We control much of the travel and other transportation in the hemisphere.
That equals power.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at December 17, 2014 10:13 AM (Zu3d9)
Posted by: maddogg at December 17, 2014 10:11 AM (xWW96)
----
Exactly.
Posted by: seems legit at December 17, 2014 10:13 AM (A98Xu)
Posted by: Fritz at December 17, 2014 10:13 AM (UzPAd)
Asked.
I will say this though....his 17 year old daughter is one of the better looking girls I've ever seen. I'm glad she's here.
And answered.
Posted by: Blanco Basura at December 17, 2014 10:13 AM (UVfht)
No argument from me.
Commence tossing brickbats, rotten fruit, etc.
Posted by: Citizen X at December 17, 2014 10:13 AM (7ObY1)
//whistles tunelessly
Posted by: Brother Cavil, Unrepresented at December 17, 2014 10:11 AM (DT3rQ)
I don't deny those places are shitholes as well. Which is why we shouldn't spend a Goddamn dime to support them.
Posted by: Colorado Alex at December 17, 2014 10:13 AM (10ydV)
So , therefore , we owe them reparations and that money and aid flow needs to begin this week.
Sean Penn must be ecstatic.
Posted by: Jen the original at December 17, 2014 10:13 AM (cPPlg)
Posted by: Michael Moore at December 17, 2014 10:13 AM (0FSuD)
I'm actually okay with that. It'll bring down their cost so I might be able to afford a restored 55 Chevy.
Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - TrueCon at December 17, 2014 10:13 AM (kff5f)
Posted by: 2L at December 17, 2014 10:13 AM (TaO1J)
Posted by: Dang at December 17, 2014 10:14 AM (MNq6o)
Of course not.
Do you think Reagan cared about the world's opinion when he destroyed the Soviet Union?
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at December 17, 2014 10:14 AM (Zu3d9)
Cuban girls...you'll die with a smile on your face. Or it might just be twisted into a rictus of terror. Hard to say at times.
Posted by: Brother Cavil, Unrepresented at December 17, 2014 10:14 AM (DT3rQ)
Posted by: dogfish at December 17, 2014 10:14 AM (1vYi0)
Of course, he's recalling the days of 2nd Marine and shore leave a few, er, years ago.
Posted by: anon a mouse at December 17, 2014 10:14 AM (/jpU8)
Posted by: Bob Belcher at December 17, 2014 10:14 AM (3jmxp)
Posted by: Tim at December 17, 2014 10:14 AM (xq7pr)
At this point, the world ought to be pretty fucking straight on a few things:
- if there's a GOP administration, foreign policy will tend to be muscular, but also full of a lot of bluster and empty threats. Israel will be protected.
- a Democrat administration will betray your covert agents, will abandon Israel in a heartbeat and will fuck you over for imagined slights or some warped concept of 'social justice.'
The times when the USA was a beacon to the world of freedom and prosperity and could be counted on as a stauch ally are long damn gone.
Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at December 17, 2014 10:14 AM (zF6Iw)
Posted by: seems legit at December 17, 2014 10:15 AM (A98Xu)
Wouldn't that be Zombie Uncle Fidel?
Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - TrueCon at December 17, 2014 10:15 AM (kff5f)
Posted by: Inspector Cussword at December 17, 2014 10:15 AM (scgac)
Posted by: Adirondack Patriot at December 17, 2014 10:15 AM (iAUf+)
As an aside, the rest of the world has long passed Cuba as cigar makers as well.
Posted by: anon a mouse at December 17, 2014 10:15 AM (/jpU8)
Posted by: dantesed at December 17, 2014 10:15 AM (88xKn)
And if Raul wants to open things up for the Cubans, it might not be such a bad move. Knowing our present administration, I wouldn't bet on it, though.
Posted by: mallfly at December 17, 2014 10:15 AM (bJm7W)
Jill slapped me real hard when I asked her.
Posted by: Joe Biden at December 17, 2014 10:15 AM (cneZH)
Posted by: Colorado Alex at December 17, 2014 10:16 AM (10ydV)
Once upon a time the United States stood up for individuals against oppressive regimes.
I don't see a whole lot of evidence of that anymore. It would be hard to argue for continued sanctions against Cuba, when we are practically supine in front of China.
I would also suggest, the fact that we get no practical benefit from normalized relations with Cuba weakens, not strengthens the argument against doing so.
Posted by: BurtTC at December 17, 2014 10:16 AM (TOk1P)
... he would have been correct. Republicans would still be no different than and screwing us - just not over the Cuba thing.
Posted by: ScoggDog at December 17, 2014 10:16 AM (xWPj1)
Posted by: Nip Sip at December 17, 2014 10:16 AM (0FSuD)
Posted by: Citizen X at December 17, 2014 10:16 AM (7ObY1)
Posted by: Oschisms at December 17, 2014 10:16 AM (uqV2n)
look for as many of these passive-aggressive unilateral caves as he can cram in in the next two years.
Posted by: Sven S Blade a.k.a. El Assassin@sven10077 at December 17, 2014 10:16 AM (/4AZU)
Posted by: Seamus Muldoon, a solid man at December 17, 2014 10:16 AM (lHb9q)
No, not really. Further, it's possible to disagree on a point of policy without going "ballistic.
We have relations with a number of countries in that area, and our influence over them is limites. Puerto Rico and Jamaica export their dissatisfied and we have higher crime rates to prove it.
We should have realtions with countries when we have need, and when we have interest. No cuch argument was even attempted here. The Soviets were in Cuba and packed up when finances dictated a change. The ruble sucks right now; that's hardly a time to expand in the most costly way possible.
Posted by: Blue Hen at December 17, 2014 10:16 AM (Spluw)
Posted by: dogfish at December 17, 2014 10:14 AM (1vYi0)
By Jove, I think you've got it!
Posted by: Hrothgar at December 17, 2014 10:16 AM (fL/7/)
I concur. Seems like McDonald's and Levi Strauss have done more for foreign relations than any of the bastards in the State Department.
Exactly. I was part of the clean-up crew decommifying East Germany.
I wanted it to be all about a universal love of freedom, but a lot of it was tasty, tasty Coca-Cola.
Posted by: Bandersnatch at December 17, 2014 10:16 AM (JtwS4)
Also, considering the propaganda that they've sent our way, I'd expect a bit more bowing and scraping.
Plus: Are they racist? Check. Nobody has it worse than Cuban blacks.
Are they homophobic? Oh, you betcha. But I guess Teh Gheys will say nothing about that either.
Posted by: AmishDude at December 17, 2014 10:16 AM (b4b5c)
----
Is it? There are arguments for this, but there are arguments against it. I've been torn on this for a long time. Obama wants to normalize relations - Reagan did not (different time and era - I get all that). Still if Obama is for something, I am very skeptical it is the right thing to do.
Posted by: SH at December 17, 2014 10:17 AM (gmeXX)
Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at December 17, 2014 10:17 AM (UtvsI)
Posted by: anon a mouse at December 17, 2014 10:17 AM (/jpU8)
Posted by: Count de Monet at December 17, 2014 10:17 AM (JO9+V)
Posted by: mugiwara at December 17, 2014 10:17 AM (MwUhj)
It's not fair that we judge other nation's human rights records...
after all "we tortured some folks"....
I suspect Ogabe has less problem with Cuba's actions against dissidents than he has that he can't use such tactics here easily.
Posted by: Sven S Blade a.k.a. El Assassin@sven10077 at December 17, 2014 10:18 AM (/4AZU)
Posted by: Bigby's Knuckle Sandwich at December 17, 2014 10:18 AM (Cq0oW)
Posted by: Pendejo Grande at December 17, 2014 10:18 AM (OZW5B)
Posted by: Colorado Alex at December 17, 2014 10:16 AM (10ydV)
-----
This is the murky Jarrett deal I was looking for.
Posted by: seems legit at December 17, 2014 10:18 AM (A98Xu)
That equals power.
That only equals power if we exercise that power, which we haven't within my lifetime.
We don't force other people away from Cuba. We don't restrict their airspace or sea-lanes. We stop no one else from dealing with Cuba. We're the one rich guy who refuses to eat at that particular hole-in-the-wall restaurant. The restaurant doesn't care.
However, if we do open up trade with them, it will be much, much harder for the Castro regime to continue to hide how much better for the people Capitalism is over Communism.
Even SA s-holes have to make some genuflections toward the alter of Capitalism, no matter how minor and half-hearted.
Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - TrueCon at December 17, 2014 10:18 AM (kff5f)
Posted by: SH at December 17, 2014 10:18 AM (gmeXX)
Posted by: Tim at December 17, 2014 10:14 AM (xq7pr
What freedom loving expat wants to go back to Cuba? They want to bring the rest of their family here in a safe travel mode, instead of on a raft made of barrels.
Take a look at recent photos of Cuba....I'd have a hard time deciding which is worse, Cuba or Haiti.
Posted by: Jen the original at December 17, 2014 10:18 AM (cPPlg)
Posted by: Y-not on the phone at December 17, 2014 10:18 AM (9BRsg)
Did the negotiations go something like this? US bends over and Cuba/Russia buggers us.
Posted by: dogfish at December 17, 2014 10:14 AM (1vYi0)
That's how it works when I am "In the House"
Posted by: Reggie at December 17, 2014 10:19 AM (0FSuD)
Leipzig in the 90s - people were going crazy over the wild American tastes.
Fun times.
Posted by: anon a mouse at December 17, 2014 10:19 AM (/jpU8)
Posted by: Talibill
If I had to guess, Big Business and Big Government in cahoots again. It would be a huge economic hot spot as a travel destination and as general infrastructure goes in. Targets and McDonalds for everyone!
Posted by: dogfish at December 17, 2014 10:19 AM (1vYi0)
Seriously. WTF does Cuba have to offer the US besides cigars.
Posted by: Talibill at December 17, 2014 10:06 AM (FGZtn)
50's cars and hooks.
Posted by: Nip Sip at December 17, 2014 10:10 AM (0FSuD)
A cheaper vacation destination and an influx of doctors trying to get the hell out of Cuba.
Posted by: FDR's Television at December 17, 2014 10:19 AM (FhQG5)
Posted by: Philadelphia Philles at December 17, 2014 10:19 AM (/eTPT)
Posted by: SpongeBobSaget at December 17, 2014 10:19 AM (zauWW)
Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - TrueCon at December 17, 2014 10:11 AM (kff5f)
Sorry, but that is total bullshit.
We engaged China, and look what they turned into. Just as oppressive, but much wealthier.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at December 17, 2014 10:19 AM (Zu3d9)
Posted by: ThunderB at December 17, 2014 10:19 AM (zOTsN)
Posted by: Tim
Or they can keep making shit up.
Posted by: Maduro in Venezuela at December 17, 2014 10:20 AM (Spluw)
Bingo, besides our vanishing military budget simple can't support maintaining a base in a neighboring friendly country!
Gone by summer of 2016!
Another Prog box checked off on the Obama Prog to-do list!
Posted by: Hrothgar at December 17, 2014 10:20 AM (fL/7/)
Posted by: maddogg at December 17, 2014 10:20 AM (xWW96)
I've spent my whole life watching my Canadian friends and family members travel to and fro from Cuba whenever they want.
The world has never ended because of it, and Canada didn't somehow become a Communist country.
Seems to me (and geez, I'm about to sound like a neocon here) the best way to export Democracy is to trade and travel.
Posted by: Citizen X at December 17, 2014 10:21 AM (7ObY1)
Posted by: ThunderB at December 17, 2014 10:21 AM (zOTsN)
Posted by: TVoC Hates the GOP at December 17, 2014 10:21 AM (XzRw1)
Posted by: Hilary at December 17, 2014 10:21 AM (/eTPT)
Posted by: buzzion at December 17, 2014 10:21 AM (zt+N6)
This bastard is a slippy asshole.
Posted by: Nip Sip at December 17, 2014 10:21 AM (0FSuD)
Fixed. If it hasn't been done yet.
Posted by: andycanuck at December 17, 2014 10:21 AM (Dw98+)
Posted by: This is a Faux News Alert at December 17, 2014 10:21 AM (hKyl0)
I get that.
Posted by: ScoggDog at December 17, 2014 10:21 AM (xWPj1)
Soon the Communists here will denounce Capitalism in Cuba.
The Cuban people will soon be free.
Posted by: eman at December 17, 2014 10:22 AM (MQEz6)
Posted by: Skandia Recluse at December 17, 2014 10:22 AM (pxExP)
Colorada Alex @ 75 - My thoughts exactly. This is Preznit Urkle's first step in closing GITMO.
Posted by: butch at December 17, 2014 10:22 AM (0APJ3)
Leipzig in the 90s - people were going crazy over the wild American tastes.
Fun times
You were there? Those were some of my best ever times.
Posted by: Bandersnatch at December 17, 2014 10:22 AM (JtwS4)
Obviously they have been given the go ahead to push the new party line.
Posted by: Nip Sip at December 17, 2014 10:22 AM (0FSuD)
Wouldn't be surprised if they just 'forgot' to pay the rent on it this year.
Posted by: Hilary at December 17, 2014 10:22 AM (/eTPT)
-----
While Obama may want to do that, this probably won't happen. At least I certainly hope not. Its one thing to close the detention center there. It is another to give up the base. Both are bad, but Guantano is one of the most strategic positions in the Northern Hemisphere as it guards are southeast coast.
Posted by: SH at December 17, 2014 10:22 AM (gmeXX)
Posted by: Fritz at December 17, 2014 10:22 AM (UzPAd)
Posted by: Hrothgar at December 17, 2014 10:10 AM (fL/7/)
That's a goood cigar.
Posted by: Berserker-Dragonheads Division at December 17, 2014 10:22 AM (FMbng)
the issue is that we will be propping up a communist dictatorship
Posted by: ThunderB at December 17, 2014 10:22 AM (zOTsN)
Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at December 17, 2014 10:23 AM (UtvsI)
If I was Republican politican I would pound Obama over this, and his misuse of EOs again. But I am quietly happy...this is a win-win. If it blows up let zero take the heat.
Posted by: William Eaton at December 17, 2014 10:23 AM (7ZTkP)
Yup, and his commie supporters in the Media and Horrywood.
Posted by: This is a Faux News Alert at December 17, 2014 10:23 AM (hKyl0)
Posted by: SH at December 17, 2014 10:17 AM (gmeXX)
Yes, you can guarantee that it includes screwing us over for all the evil misdeeds this country has done toward the gentle country of Cuba and it's brown people and transferring wealth out of the US.
Everything Obama does is to "pay the USA back" for his version of how evil and racist this country is.
There is NOTHING this man and his regime do that is in the best interest of the USA. And he aims to continue that trajectory.
Posted by: Jen the original at December 17, 2014 10:23 AM (cPPlg)
My breath is held in anticipation of this noble feat.
Posted by: John Lithgow, in a sarcastic tone at December 17, 2014 10:24 AM (HKvMD)
Posted by: ThunderB at December 17, 2014 10:24 AM (zOTsN)
Posted by: Fritz at December 17, 2014 10:22 AM (UzPAd) I could get behind that.
Posted by: maddogg at December 17, 2014 10:24 AM (xWW96)
So that means missionary, right?
Posted by: buzzsaw90 at December 17, 2014 10:24 AM (/eTPT)
much harder for the Castro regime to continue to hide how much better
for the people Capitalism is over Communism.
Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - TrueCon at December 17, 2014 10:18 AM (kff5f)
So they can trade with the entire world except for us, and they are an oppressive communist dictatorship that runs gulags for their own people.
But magically, when they get American tourists they will turn into a benevolent democracy?
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at December 17, 2014 10:24 AM (Zu3d9)
I'm convinced Obama does all this shit to vlad because he perceives him as insulting or condescending. which is, of course, appropriate.
but its poking the bear, literally.
Posted by: Bigby's Knuckle Sandwich at December 17, 2014 10:24 AM (Cq0oW)
Maybe people just want the option to visit Havana again, ala Guys and Dolls.
I honestly don't know what I think of this. I mean, we are friends with a lot of shitty countries and apparently we hate all the good ones now, so wtf, right?
Posted by: Lea at December 17, 2014 10:25 AM (lIU4e)
Posted by: ThunderB at December 17, 2014 10:25 AM (zOTsN)
Posted by: FDR's Television at December 17, 2014 10:19 AM (FhQG5)
I'd think the smart doctors would stay there and set up boutique medical vacation spa hospitals on the beaches! The influx of Americans trying to escape Obamacare should make that place wealthy paradise within a year!
Posted by: Hrothgar at December 17, 2014 10:25 AM (fL/7/)
Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at December 17, 2014 10:25 AM (UtvsI)
Posted by: buzzsaw90 at December 17, 2014 10:24 AM (/eTPT)
I like anal.
Posted by: Wonkette at December 17, 2014 10:25 AM (0FSuD)
Posted by: TVoC Hates the GOP at December 17, 2014 10:25 AM (XzRw1)
Posted by: Citizen X
1. I don't know of anyone who fears "becoming a communist country because of visiting Cuba".
2. Why visit Cuba? There are literally dozens of places in the same region with the same weather. And they have much nicer amenities. And you're not helping to prop up a dictator. is it cheaper? Doe it give them some fake sophistication to go visit Uncle Fidel?
Posted by: Blue Hen at December 17, 2014 10:25 AM (Spluw)
Posted by: Lincolntf at December 17, 2014 10:26 AM (2cS/G)
Posted by: Fredo at December 17, 2014 10:27 AM (/eTPT)
2. the Hispanic vote
3. the libtard vote
4. close Gitmo
5. poke vlad
6. finally a foreign policy victory
Posted by: ThunderB at December 17, 2014 10:27 AM (zOTsN)
Because: Time? And cheap tropical vacations?
Fuck that noise.
President Royal would bring back privateers. Any ship leaving any Commie port is fair game.
Posted by: RoyalOil at December 17, 2014 10:27 AM (5yHi1)
Flip side? Normalizing relations may spotted s speed up the decline of the Castro regime. Enough American money tends to sway public opinion
Posted by: tsrblke (phone) at December 17, 2014 10:27 AM (HjHhx)
Like a light switch baby....
Canadians don't have the necessary Gamma Rays of Liberty emanating from them....
*skree skree*
feel the democracy baby?
Posted by: Sven S Blade a.k.a. El Assassin@sven10077 at December 17, 2014 10:27 AM (/4AZU)
the issue is that we will be propping up a communist dictatorship
Posted by: ThunderB at December 17, 2014 10:22 AM (zOTsN)
You do that already.
It's called the Federal Empire.
Posted by: eman at December 17, 2014 10:27 AM (MQEz6)
Posted by: andycanuck at December 17, 2014 10:28 AM (Dw98+)
60 years of US Foreign Policy should NOT be changed on whim by an Imperial President... and his Cabal of idiots.
Posted by: Wolf, Big Bad, 1 ea. at December 17, 2014 10:28 AM (f0pWu)
Yeah. We can't hold the line on anything, even if it costs us nothing. We lose nothing by punishing Castro.
"Plus...really cheap Caribbean vacations for Americans and the chance for more Cubans to come here will do a lot to bring down the decrepit shell of Castro's revolutionary paradise."
But as you say, Europe has good relations with Cuba, and has built large resorts on stolen land for decades. It kept Castro around long enough for the paper tiger to wilt.
Oh and as for Cubans being allowed to come here...the simple answer to that, politically, is another mass deportation of criminals. If the first Cubans to the United States launch a crime wave, serious emigrants will not be welcomed, and their maltreatment in America will make nice propaganda. He did it before in the Mariel boatlift.
Posted by: Chris_Balsz at December 17, 2014 10:28 AM (8rRE+)
His dad wasn't around, and I never got a straight answer as to why. It took me many years to finally understand.
I wonder how he's doing and if his Dad ever made it here.
And yes, his Mom was seriously hot.
Posted by: BackwardsBoy, Curmudgeon Extraordinaire at December 17, 2014 10:28 AM (0HooB)
Posted by: buzzion
lookatme!! I'm playing multi dimensional chutes and ladders with Putin. Aren't i clever?
Posted by: King Putt? at December 17, 2014 10:28 AM (Spluw)
Chesimard has probably already fled to Venezuela. Where I hope she
catches some nasty tropical disease and her flesh rots off her body.
Botfly larvae in her head would be nice.
Posted by: TVoC Hates the GOP at December 17, 2014 10:28 AM (XzRw1)
Posted by: Null at December 17, 2014 10:28 AM (xjpRj)
He was derided as King Putt...
Posted by: Sven S Blade a.k.a. El Assassin@sven10077 at December 17, 2014 10:28 AM (/4AZU)
I have a fantasy of dirt cheap beach front property, or that you be allowed to buy it or keep it
Posted by: ThunderB at December 17, 2014 10:29 AM (zOTsN)
Posted by: meyer lansky at December 17, 2014 10:29 AM (z/HLo)
How well did Nixon's trip to China work out for us?
Depending on what one means by 'work out'.
I just bought a 32" flatscreen for $200.
Trade is good.
Posted by: Bandersnatch at December 17, 2014 10:29 AM (JtwS4)
News flash, folks - look in the mirror - we ARE a "commie" country! State-run media, nationalized (and poorly run) medicine, centrally-controlled economy, "leader" class, welfare payouts, politicians catering to the "working class", lack of free speech (political correctness), etc.
I even wonder if maybe we are drifting left of Cuba....
Posted by: 1bulwetweft at December 17, 2014 10:30 AM (5Un6g)
much harder for the Castro regime to continue to hide how much better
for the people Capitalism is over Communism.
Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) - TrueCon at December 17, 2014 10:18 AM (kff5f)
So they can trade with the entire world except for us, and they are an oppressive communist dictatorship that runs gulags for their own people.
But magically, when they get American tourists they will turn into a benevolent democracy?
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at December 17, 2014 10:24 AM (Zu3d9)
No, the end of the embargo is the end of the regime.
Posted by: eman at December 17, 2014 10:30 AM (MQEz6)
American women hardest hit.
Posted by: Fredo Corleone at December 17, 2014 10:30 AM (JO9+V)
Posted by: Costanza Defense at December 17, 2014 10:31 AM (ZPrif)
Posted by: Lincolntf at December 17, 2014 10:31 AM (2cS/G)
I have some bridges to sell you...
from Key West to Havana even
Posted by: Sven S Blade a.k.a. El Assassin@sven10077 at December 17, 2014 10:31 AM (/4AZU)
Posted by: lech walesa at December 17, 2014 10:31 AM (F9xZu)
Posted by: King Putt? at December 17, 2014 10:28 AM (Spluw)
How about getting my car? Hands up! Catch my keys!
Posted by: Jane D'oh at December 17, 2014 10:31 AM (FsuaD)
Not so fast. He'll find a way to f*** it up. Just like I'm starting to think he'll find a way to f*** up amnesty.
It's what he does...
Posted by: Brother Cavil, Unrepresented at December 17, 2014 10:31 AM (DT3rQ)
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at December 17, 2014 10:24 AM (Zu3d9)
I think you skipped the targeted bombing step.
Posted by: Heralder at December 17, 2014 10:32 AM (/Mxso)
Before there was the Mafia, Wrigley and Hershey fought over Cuba. For sugar.
I agree about the low quality of Cuban cigars during my entire adult lifetime. It's been written about extensively. They have a certain cachet, like getting Coors in the east in the 70's, but that's a yuppie version of radical chic. Dominicans have long been better, and there are many new brands from all over that put them to shame.
Posted by: Stringer Davis at December 17, 2014 10:32 AM (xq1UY)
The Democrat nominee in 2016 will agree with the Republican nominee that Obama blew it. The Democrat will then attack the Republican for repudiating "our values" and promise to bring the Democrat agenda with competence and honesty. The Republican strategy of collaborating with Obama and refusing to argue about ideas or goals plays right into that.
Posted by: Chris_Balsz at December 17, 2014 10:32 AM (8rRE+)
Posted by: eman
Why? The embargo is only with the US. Haiti is a dreadful basket case, and they haven't been embargoed by anyone.
Doing this or not doing this will NOT guarantee anything.
Posted by: Blue hen at December 17, 2014 10:32 AM (Spluw)
Posted by: Nip Sip at December 17, 2014 10:21 AM
Astroglide, ftw!
Posted by: Reggie Love at December 17, 2014 10:32 AM (knoK7)
Bozo will likely forgive that
.
Posted by: Avi at December 17, 2014 10:32 AM (Gx3Fe)
Posted by: Costanza Defense at December 17, 2014 10:32 AM (ZPrif)
China may be a unique case. Their manufacturing allows them to increase wealth in a way Cuba can't.
Posted by: tsrblke (phone) at December 17, 2014 10:32 AM (HjHhx)
"The injustice of American greatness will not stand...."
//Honest Obama 08 campaign ads
Posted by: Sven S Blade a.k.a. El Assassin@sven10077 at December 17, 2014 10:32 AM (/4AZU)
we are still a much bigger market than Europe. Our investment will support a communist dictatorship in our hemisphere.
I don't think we have ever done that in our history
Posted by: ThunderB at December 17, 2014 10:33 AM (zOTsN)
Posted by: Adam Smith's Invisible Pimp Hand at December 17, 2014 10:33 AM (JjJUC)
Posted by: Mitch McConnell at December 17, 2014 10:34 AM (XzRw1)
Posted by: Costanza Defense at December 17, 2014 10:34 AM (ZPrif)
When the embargo happens every hotel chain will be rushing to build beach resorts. Hilton, Marriott, etc will make a ton of money in Cuba. And if you dig deep enough you will probably find a lot of money from Hilton, Marriott. etc getting funneled to Obama and/or Democrat Party coffers.
Posted by: ATL - Busiest Airport in America with more flights to Europe than anyone else at December 17, 2014 10:34 AM (0LHZx)
Republican nominee that Obama blew it. The Democrat will then attack
the Republican for repudiating "our values"
Posted by: Chris_Balsz at December 17, 2014 10:32 AM (8rRE+)
And then the "impartial moderator" will join in and attack the Republican too.
Posted by: Heralder at December 17, 2014 10:34 AM (/Mxso)
I had a Cuban sandwich once. Posted by: Mitch McConnell at December 17, 2014 10:34 AM (XzRw1)
One was Mark, who was the other?
Posted by: 1bulwetweft at December 17, 2014 10:34 AM (5Un6g)
Posted by: Inspector Cussword at December 17, 2014 10:34 AM (scgac)
Posted by: ThunderB
Hola.
Posted by: zombie Hugo Chavez at December 17, 2014 10:34 AM (Spluw)
Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at December 17, 2014 10:35 AM (0LHZx)
Posted by: Citizen X
My Canadian friends go to Cuba because it's a cheap winter beach vacation.
Not because it's a great travel destination.
Posted by: Jen the original at December 17, 2014 10:35 AM (cPPlg)
We won it fair and square in the Spanish-American War.
-----
From a strategic standpoint, we should have always kept it as a US territory.
Posted by: SH at December 17, 2014 10:35 AM (gmeXX)
Posted by: HoboJerk, The State Loves You at December 17, 2014 10:35 AM (FA3Z7)
Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at December 17, 2014 10:35 AM (l1zOH)
Posted by: some guy at December 17, 2014 10:36 AM (QCc6B)
Posted by: Lincolntf at December 17, 2014 10:36 AM (2cS/G)
Posted by: ThunderB at December 17, 2014 10:36 AM (zOTsN)
Posted by: tsrblke (phone) at December 17, 2014 10:27 AM (HjHhx)
No, the end of the embargo is the end of the regime.
Posted by: eman at December 17, 2014 10:30 AM (MQEz6)
Somebody please explain why this will be the case. It makes no sense. The dollar has magical properties that will transmogrify a brutal, repressive dictatorship that has survived some pretty significant attacks, both from within and without?
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at December 17, 2014 10:36 AM (Zu3d9)
I've already been hearing complaints about Americans wanting to visit Cuba before it becomes "Americanized".
Posted by: Adam Smith's Invisible Pimp Hand at December 17, 2014 10:33 AM (JjJUC)By "Americanized" I think they mean not a third world shithole. I think the left gets an erection watching oppressed people play in the mud.
Posted by: Heralder at December 17, 2014 10:36 AM (/Mxso)
Posted by: ThunderB at December 17, 2014 10:36 AM (zOTsN)
Posted by: Bubba Clinton at December 17, 2014 10:36 AM (CMbMd)
The China argument is an odd one anyway. We didn't do ANYTHING to hold China to any standards on human rights. We deliberately stopped trying.
Why?
Cheap electronics.
We already sold out on the concept. Trying to hold the line at Cuba is not just pointless, it's absurd in its hypocrisy.
Posted by: BurtTC at December 17, 2014 10:37 AM (TOk1P)
Posted by: seems legit at December 17, 2014 10:37 AM (A98Xu)
So, we are just going to ignore the billions and billions of dollars in US citizen's property they stole?
The Helms amendment will NOT let them do that. Someone is going to pay.
Guess who, amigo?
Posted by: Nip Sip at December 17, 2014 10:37 AM (0FSuD)
Posted by: ThunderB at December 17, 2014 10:38 AM (zOTsN)
Posted by: Sabrina Rubin Erdely at December 17, 2014 10:38 AM (9GG/0)
The Philippines were different. Their rebels already had thrown out the Spaniards excepting from Manila. So the American "occupation" was basically a re-invasion
Posted by: boulder terlit hobo at December 17, 2014 10:38 AM (z/HLo)
Posted by: eman at December 17, 2014 10:30 AM (MQEz6)
____________
During the 70s and 80s, Western Europeans vacationed in Eastern Europe. All it did was give the dictators of E. Europe hard currency with which they could continue their rule.
Cuba will be the same.
Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at December 17, 2014 10:38 AM (0LHZx)
Posted by: ThunderB
You didn't buy my oil? And it was my oil. I seized it. And I don't remember any embargo or travel restrictions. And American policy makers fawned all over me, including your King Putt.
Posted by: zombie Hugo Chavez at December 17, 2014 10:38 AM (Spluw)
Posted by: eman
Why? The embargo is only with the US. Haiti is a dreadful basket case, and they haven't been embargoed by anyone.
Doing this or not doing this will NOT guarantee anything.
Posted by: Blue hen at December 17, 2014 10:32 AM (Spluw)
The regime needs to embargo as a symbol of struggle against Capitalists.
Remember 1989.
Posted by: eman at December 17, 2014 10:38 AM (MQEz6)
----
Or an understanding that not all countries are equal and our relationship with countries are done on a case by case basis based on the strategic importance each country is to the US.
Posted by: SH at December 17, 2014 10:38 AM (gmeXX)
Posted by: SS at December 17, 2014 10:38 AM (XzRw1)
do we trust their version of the TSA? that they wont send us terrorists?
Posted by: ThunderB at December 17, 2014 10:38 AM (zOTsN)
How well did Nixon's trip to China work out for us?
Depending on what one means by 'work out'.
I just bought a 32" flatscreen for $200.
Trade is good.
Posted by: Bandersnatch at December 17, 2014 10:29 AM (JtwS4)
Stalin once said... "A Capitalist will sell you the rope to hang him with'
He was wrong... now the Crony Capitalist of America, will borrow money to BUY you the rope, to hang them with.. and buy it from China.'
Posted by: Wolf, Big Bad, 1 ea. at December 17, 2014 10:39 AM (f0pWu)
I am not sure about that. The current hotels are getting fucked and until Cuba puts in some sort of property rights for investors, not much will happen.
Posted by: Nip Sip at December 17, 2014 10:39 AM (0FSuD)
Posted by: @votermom at December 17, 2014 10:39 AM (AZk67)
Posted by: Sabrina Rubin Erdely at December 17, 2014 10:39 AM (9GG/0)
I agree, especially since they won.
Posted by: BackwardsBoy, Curmudgeon Extraordinaire at December 17, 2014 10:39 AM (0HooB)
-
Agreed. It's our Taiwan.
Having a large island just off our coast is an inherent strategic vulnerability and invitation for rivals to try and use that geography against you.
Posted by: Costanza Defense at December 17, 2014 10:39 AM (ZPrif)
So?
China has industrial power...Cuba will have tourist dollars.
The money will go to support the regime. Just like Canadian dollars and French francs and British pounds have for years.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at December 17, 2014 10:39 AM (Zu3d9)
Dictators gonna dictate.
Posted by: seems legit at December 17, 2014 10:40 AM (A98Xu)
#206
You forget, this administration never follows a law it doesn't want to. So the Helms amendment? Didn't happen. They don't care. The law is not going to be followed. We have a dictator and we cannot thwart him. Period.
Posted by: Inspector Cussword at December 17, 2014 10:40 AM (scgac)
Posted by: ThunderB at December 17, 2014 10:40 AM (zOTsN)
Somebody please explain why this will be the case. It makes no sense. The dollar has magical properties that will transmogrify a brutal, repressive dictatorship that has survived some pretty significant attacks, both from within and without?
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at December 17, 2014 10:36
Lots of money flowing into the Chi-Coms, I don't see them becoming a flourishing democracy.
Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at December 17, 2014 10:40 AM (l1zOH)
What's in this for the U.S. again? Cheap vacations and scores of more big-government immigrants?
Pass.
The Castros are aging out. We have all the time in the world. There is no benefit to appeasing a communist nation 90 miles from our shore.
Posted by: CJ at December 17, 2014 10:40 AM (9KqcB)
Posted by: Buck Farky at December 17, 2014 10:40 AM (0wiDy)
Posted by: Bandersnatch at December 17, 2014 10:41 AM (JtwS4)
So, we are just going to ignore the billions and billions of dollars in US citizen's property they stole?
The Helms amendment will NOT let them do that. Someone is going to pay.
Guess who, amigo?
Posted by: Nip Sip at December 17, 2014 10:37 AM (0FSuD)
You speak as if the Obama administration CARES what the law is...
He will just grant them amnesty, or just decide not to enforce that law...
Posted by: Wolf, Big Bad, 1 ea. at December 17, 2014 10:41 AM (f0pWu)
Posted by: Heralder at December 17, 2014 10:36 AM
See, e.g., every PBS travel show.
Posted by: RedMindBlueState at December 17, 2014 10:41 AM (knoK7)
Posted by: Costanza Defense at December 17, 2014 10:41 AM (ZPrif)
He'll be bigger than U.S. Steel!
Posted by: furious at December 17, 2014 10:41 AM (jEOf0)
He'll be bigger than U.S. Steel!
Posted by: furious at December 17, 2014 10:41 AM (jEOf0)
No. We gave China everything they wanted, and requested NOTHING in return.
That wasn't strategery. That was greed, plain and simple. There was money to be made, and money to be handed back to politicians, who then genuflected, and opened their mouths to receive the Chinese dong.
It could be done differently in Cuba. We could ask for human rights changes.
We won't. But we could.
Posted by: BurtTC at December 17, 2014 10:42 AM (TOk1P)
Posted by: Count de Monet at December 17, 2014 10:42 AM (JO9+V)
Trade is good.
Posted by: Bandersnatch at December 17, 2014 10:29 AM (JtwS4)
You ain't getting anything of value from Cuber.
Posted by: CJ at December 17, 2014 10:42 AM (9KqcB)
Posted by: skh.pcola at December 17, 2014 10:42 AM (xZZ2H)
Posted by: Buck Farky
This. The miserable weasel is too chicken to close it as he said he would in 2008. He'll do here what he did in Iraq. Make a shitty deal, and then blame others.
Posted by: Blue Hen at December 17, 2014 10:43 AM (Spluw)
Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at December 17, 2014 10:43 AM (l1zOH)
Posted by: blaster at December 17, 2014 10:43 AM (Rx8ML)
And two years left.
Wonder what else he'll do?
Big one is Iran.
Posted by: Costanza Defense at December 17, 2014 10:43 AM (ZPrif)
Having a large island just off our coast is an inherent strategic vulnerability and invitation for rivals to try and use that geography against you.
-----
Absolutely, it may be one of the most strategic islands in the world. It completely guards the Gulf. We should have kept it, just as we should have kept the panama canal.
Now, if Cuba can become a ally, that is good too. And there was probably a day in which normalization would come. I would prefer it come after the Castro's were gone.
Posted by: SH at December 17, 2014 10:43 AM (gmeXX)
Posted by: Brother Cavil, Unrepresented at December 17, 2014 10:43 AM (DT3rQ)
The irony burns.
The old guard must remain in terror of the possibility of the young communist true believers getting together to murmur, "Next July, at the Sierra Madres"
Posted by: Kindltot at December 17, 2014 10:43 AM (t//F+)
Posted by: ThunderB at December 17, 2014 10:43 AM (zOTsN)
Posted by: Tighter at December 17, 2014 10:44 AM (KwTdE)
Posted by: boulder terlit hobo at December 17, 2014 10:44 AM (z/HLo)
Posted by: BurtTC
Insist that the press that covered the stupidity at Abu Ghirib survey the Cuban prison system. This shit would end then.
But you're right; they won't.
Posted by: Blue Hen at December 17, 2014 10:44 AM (Spluw)
Posted by: ThunderB at December 17, 2014 10:43 AM (zOTsN)
Wanna bet?
Posted by: Chinese Boomer Captain at December 17, 2014 10:45 AM (Zu3d9)
Posted by: Costanza Defense at December 17, 2014 10:39 AM (ZPrif)
Insert Zombie Admiral Yammamoto joke
Posted by: Count de Monet at December 17, 2014 10:45 AM (JO9+V)
Charles Lane @ChuckLane1 4m
Bottom line: Cuban regime never moved an inch toward democracy/free expression. Got normalized relations w/US
Huge, historic Castro win
Posted by: Costanza Defense at December 17, 2014 10:45 AM (ZPrif)
Posted by: 1bulwetweft at December 17, 2014 10:45 AM (TR90z)
Posted by: ThunderB at December 17, 2014 10:36 AM (zOTsN)
Joe *spit* Kennedy begs to differ.
Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at December 17, 2014 10:45 AM (zF6Iw)
Communism is dying there.
The regime is dying with it.
Posted by: eman at December 17, 2014 10:45 AM (MQEz6)
Posted by: Brother Cavil
Almost to 57. That will be a happy day. TFG will be known as a great prophet.
Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at December 17, 2014 10:46 AM (l1zOH)
Movie premieres cancelled, actors in hiding amid North Korean threats, Cuba rewarded for imprisoning Americans. Quite the week for dictators
Posted by: Costanza Defense at December 17, 2014 10:46 AM (ZPrif)
Posted by: ThunderB at December 17, 2014 10:46 AM (zOTsN)
Posted by: LibertarianJim at December 17, 2014 10:46 AM (CMbMd)
Posted by: Fritz at December 17, 2014 10:22 AM (UzPAd) I could get behind that.
Posted by: maddogg at December 17, 2014 10:24 AM (xWW96)
ISWYDT, and approve. Some smokin' Cuban chicks out there.
Posted by: joncelli at December 17, 2014 10:47 AM (RD7QR)
Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at December 17, 2014 10:47 AM (UtvsI)
That wasn't strategery. That was greed, plain and simple. There was money to be made, and money to be handed back to politicians, who then genuflected, and opened their mouths to receive the Chinese dong.
It could be done differently in Cuba. We could ask for human rights changes.
We won't. But we could.
-----
Having a cheap trade partner may be in our best interest? I'm not saying that China was handled correctly, just that it is not hypocrisy to deal with seemingly similar countries differently. If we are going to normalize relations, I agree with you 100%, we should ask for human right changes and if they do not agree, we should not normalize. The fact that we didn't do that in China should not dictate what we ask for with respect to Cuba. They are similar in some respects, but completely different in others.
Posted by: SH at December 17, 2014 10:47 AM (gmeXX)
Posted by: Count de Monet at December 17, 2014 10:47 AM (JO9+V)
amazing.
Posted by: Nip Sip at December 17, 2014 10:47 AM (0FSuD)
Second look at six-way California split?
Posted by: Brother Cavil, Unrepresented at December 17, 2014 10:47 AM (DT3rQ)
Give me a break. Did you even think through your support beyond a couple of seemingly sonorous platitudes and pedestrian remarks?
I think not.
Posted by: Marcus T at December 17, 2014 10:48 AM (GGCsk)
Posted by: Costanza Defense at December 17, 2014 10:48 AM (ZPrif)
Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at December 17, 2014 10:48 AM (0LHZx)
Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at December 17, 2014 10:48 AM (UtvsI)
Posted by: Mikey NTH - The Outrage Outlet for all of Your Holiday Needs! at December 17, 2014 10:48 AM (hLRSq)
amazing.
Posted by: Nip Sip at December 17, 2014 10:47 AM (0FSuD)
Native Californians nod sadly, and think, "Or a state."
Posted by: Jay Guevara at December 17, 2014 10:48 AM (oKE6c)
Second look at six-way California split?
Posted by: Brother Cavil, Unrepresented at December 1----
Or the Big One
California tumbles into the sea
Posted by Steely Dan
Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at December 17, 2014 10:49 AM (l1zOH)
Posted by: eman at December 17, 2014 10:38 AM (MQEz6)
Yeah because they totally wouldn't use the end of the embargo as a victory over the Capitalists and that they won.
Definitely not.
Posted by: buzzion at December 17, 2014 10:49 AM (zt+N6)
Posted by: BackwardsBoy, Curmudgeon Extraordinaire at December 17, 2014 10:49 AM (0HooB)
WTF
Posted by: a peasant with a business at December 17, 2014 10:49 AM (Spluw)
Posted by: BackwardsBoy, Curmudgeon Extraordinaire at December 17, 2014 10:49 AM (0HooB)
---
Me too.
Posted by: seems legit at December 17, 2014 10:50 AM (A98Xu)
Posted by: Greater Americas Co-Prosperity Sphere at December 17, 2014 10:50 AM (NUCTk)
Yup.
And Puerto Ricans are not stupid. They do not want independence.
Posted by: Chinese Boomer Captain at December 17, 2014 10:50 AM (Zu3d9)
-----
I'm afraid this is how liberals see it. The rest of us see it as a forward base that is of strategic importance to our southeast, to the gulf of Mexico and to the Carribean as a whole.
Shutting down the detention center is one thing, giving up Gitmo completely is another. Too many probably conflate those equally idiotic ideas.
Posted by: SH at December 17, 2014 10:50 AM (gmeXX)
Posted by: despair at December 17, 2014 10:50 AM (dcY7v)
Venezuela and Russia are on the economic ropes due to FRACKING
thank you very much American private enterprise
but we will do it in a way to prop up Cuba and Venezuela because our president is a communist
Posted by: ThunderB at December 17, 2014 10:50 AM (zOTsN)
Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at December 17, 2014 10:50 AM (l1zOH)
Posted by: homer simpson at December 17, 2014 10:50 AM (Dw98+)
Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at December 17, 2014 10:51 AM (0LHZx)
Posted by: rickb223 - #IWROY at December 17, 2014 10:51 AM (f3Lr8)
"For the children" or
"It's about time" or
"Because we've already made our point". Whatever the heck that means.
Posted by: Marcus T at December 17, 2014 10:51 AM (GGCsk)
Communism is dying there.
The regime is dying with it.
Posted by: eman at December 17, 2014 10:45 AM (MQEz6)
Just checking in, and haven't read the thread, but that's a reason to establish diplomatic relations: to have a chance of influencing what happens when Fidel finally goes to the Big Bullpen in the Sky (or more likely, an extremely hot venue).
Posted by: Jay Guevara at December 17, 2014 10:52 AM (oKE6c)
Which is why they don't want to punish countries for being Communist.
Posted by: Costanza Defense at December 17, 2014 10:53 AM (ZPrif)
Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at December 17, 2014 10:53 AM (0LHZx)
Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at December 17, 2014 10:53 AM (UtvsI)
Cuban Cigars...... yes, they are better than Dominican.
Posted by: Trunk Monkey, Aiming His Torpedo at December 17, 2014 10:53 AM (32Ze2)
Every several years they have to hire a Mexican attorney and go through a bunch of bullshit to be allowed to continue to "own" the house for another decade.
Rinse. Repeat.
Posted by: Jane D'oh at December 17, 2014 10:54 AM (FsuaD)
How we allowed any Communist regime in our hemisphere remains a mystery to me.
Posted by: BackwardsBoy, Curmudgeon Extraordinaire at December 17, 2014 10:54 AM (0HooB)
There's a third one of those assholes---with a name like Hermanos?
Quick!!! Get me the State Department on line three, Jane. Tonto!!!
Posted by: joey biden at December 17, 2014 10:54 AM (Dw98+)
He'll order U. S. flags to half staff.
Posted by: Jane D'oh at December 17, 2014 10:55 AM (FsuaD)
255 Last year Cuba made it legal to own private property.
Bull shit. They allow small businesses to keep part of their income.
There are no private property rights in Cuba, NONE.
Posted by: Nip Sip at December 17, 2014 10:55 AM (0FSuD)
In other words, what it used to be. (Wait, didn't Vegas only get going after Cuba flipped? Going in circles here...)
Posted by: Brother Cavil, Unrepresented at December 17, 2014 10:55 AM (DT3rQ)
284 Cuba could re-establish itself as a Las Vegas with nice beaches.
Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at December 17, 2014 10:51 AM (0LHZx)
That's called The Bahamas.
Posted by: buzzion at December 17, 2014 10:55 AM (zt+N6)
Posted by: Jay Guevara at December 17, 2014 10:55 AM (oKE6c)
Cuban Cigars...... yes, they are better than Dominican.
But how are their underage hookers?
Asking for a senator
Posted by: rickb223 - #IWROY at December 17, 2014 10:55 AM (f3Lr8)
Posted by: Jay Guevara
A regime that makes it "legal" to own property can easily make it a capital crime tomorrow.
It may very well be on its way out. But even if that's the case, it may not go peaceably.
And again I ask, what do WE gain from this? Europe and Canada deal with them freely; they're still a repressive shithole. True, the US market is vast, but we should make such changes when they are of benefit to us.
Posted by: a peasant with a business at December 17, 2014 10:55 AM (Spluw)
Posted by: Costanza Defense at December 17, 2014 10:55 AM (ZPrif)
----
There are arguments to be made for normalization. I'm open to it. I'd prefer to do it when the Castros are gone, but maybe it makes better sense to do it when they in their final days.
But I do not want this administration to be leading the normalization efforts.
Posted by: SH at December 17, 2014 10:56 AM (gmeXX)
Again, we do the same thing here. If you don't think so, then don't pay your property taxes and see what happens. And if the government decides it wants your land, it will invent the requisite "criteria" and take it.
Posted by: 1bulwetweft at December 17, 2014 10:56 AM (5Un6g)
Which is why they don't want to punish countries for being Communist.
The American Left is Communist.
Posted by: BackwardsBoy, Curmudgeon Extraordinaire at December 17, 2014 10:56 AM (0HooB)
Posted by: Mark Rubio at December 17, 2014 10:56 AM (UzPAd)
Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at December 17, 2014 10:56 AM (UtvsI)
Posted by: Brother Cavil, Unrepresented at December 17, 2014 10:55 AM (DT3rQ)
Nope. Vegas got going in the late 40s, but by 1960 (when Castro came out of the closet as a "progressive") Vegas was going pretty strong.
Posted by: Jay Guevara at December 17, 2014 10:57 AM (oKE6c)
Posted by: BackwardsBoy, Curmudgeon Extraordinaire at December 17, 2014 10:54 AM (0HooB)
Well, if I hadn't been a chicken shit asshole and had let our aircraft help at the Bay of Pigs, none of this would be happening.
But you know, besides raping 16 year old interns, I was also a pussy.
Posted by: Zombie JFK at December 17, 2014 10:57 AM (0FSuD)
Posted by: Costanza Defense at December 17, 2014 10:57 AM (ZPrif)
----
Ambassador Jay-Z has already done so, so why not.
Posted by: SH at December 17, 2014 10:58 AM (gmeXX)
Posted by: Jane D'oh at December 17, 2014 10:58 AM (FsuaD)
Calling it now: Obama will personally visit Cuba before he leaves offices, just to cement this new policy.
Posted by: Costanza Defense at December 17, 2014 10:57 AM (ZPrif)
Donkey getting ready for show!
Posted by: Nip Sip at December 17, 2014 10:58 AM (0FSuD)
Posted by: Costanza Defense at December 17, 2014 10:58 AM (ZPrif)
Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at December 17, 2014 10:53
They better be choose the taxidermist carefully. Look what happened to Hugo Baby Chavez
Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at December 17, 2014 10:59 AM (l1zOH)
How we allowed any Communist regime in our hemisphere remains a mystery to me.
Posted by: BackwardsBoy, Curmudgeon Extraordinaire at December 17, 2014 10:54 AM (0HooB)
Allowed? Shit, we elected one.
Posted by: 1bulwetweft at December 17, 2014 10:59 AM (5Un6g)
Posted by: Costanza Defense
I will not bet against that.
I will place a wager that gay activists and freedom of speech heors will get veeeeerrry quiet.
Posted by: Blue Hen at December 17, 2014 10:59 AM (Spluw)
nahh, that's not lurid enough, let's try:
"Conservatives, especially those from the South, are eager to spread their pro-rape ideology to the poor wymmyn of color in Cuba"
no wait, I can do better
Marco Rubio: The True Story of Why His Family Left Cuba
It was 1956, and Jacqui was a young college freshman at the University of Havana when she was invited to attend a college frat party one September evening. At this frat party, Jacqui was brutally gang-raped by seven fraternity brothers in a horrible initiation ritual.
Jacqui insists that the rapists included none other than Republican US Senator, Republican Marco Rubio, who is a Republican.
Soon after, Marco Rubio's family fled Cuba for the United States.
Sources allege that the rapists could not have included Republican Senator Rubio (R-Republican), because he had not yet been born at this time.
However, we all know that Republicans such as Republican Marco Rubio, a Republican from the Republican part of Republican Florida, lives in a world steeped in rape culture, that glorifies rape and supports legalizing all forms of rape, and even supports freeing all rapists from jail.
Sources from Republican Senator Rubio's Republican office would not immediately offer comment.
Posted by: Sabrina Rubin Erdely at December 17, 2014 10:59 AM (9GG/0)
Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at December 17, 2014 10:59 AM (UtvsI)
there will be throngs of people greeting him
babies will be named Obama
Beyoncé and JayZ (who vacationed there) will accompany him
he will be the lefts big hero
he will prop up the Castros
they are ideologically the same
Posted by: ThunderB at December 17, 2014 10:59 AM (zOTsN)
Posted by: Barney Frank at December 17, 2014 11:00 AM (iAUf+)
Posted by: seems legit at December 17, 2014 11:00 AM (A98Xu)
Posted by: seems legit at December 17, 2014 11:00 AM (A98Xu)
But I do not want this administration to be leading the normalization efforts.
Posted by: SH at December 17, 2014 10:56
It can't. They are not normal.
Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at December 17, 2014 11:00 AM (l1zOH)
Leave the Obongo Administration out of this.
It may very well be on its way out. But even if that's the case, it may not go peaceably.
And again I ask, what do WE gain from this?
A chance at influencing how things play out as Communism there collapses. That's the benefit to us; not economic, but geopolitical, by removing a source of support for Communist agitators and terrorists.
Posted by: a peasant with a business at December 17, 2014 10:55 AM (Spluw)
Posted by: Jay Guevara at December 17, 2014 11:01 AM (oKE6c)
Same in Venezuela. Common thread? Communist.
Posted by: rickb223 - #IWROY at December 17, 2014 11:01 AM (f3Lr8)
Such a learning experience it would be for them.
Posted by: Severian at December 17, 2014 11:01 AM (8dzZc)
Posted by: seems legit at December 17, 2014 11:00 AM (A98Xu)
No
Posted by: Velvet Ambition at December 17, 2014 11:01 AM (R8hU8)
Actually, "U.S. dollars" as they don't take any other foreign currencies.
Posted by: andycanuck at December 17, 2014 11:01 AM (Dw98+)
Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at December 17, 2014 11:01 AM (zF6Iw)
Posted by: ThunderB at December 17, 2014 11:01 AM (zOTsN)
Is there anything, ANYTHING, this administration has done this hasn't had a negative affect on The United States?
*ponders*
Well, Moochelle kindly reached up on a tall shelf in Target once to fetch something for a shorty.
So there's that.
Posted by: Jane D'oh at December 17, 2014 11:01 AM (FsuaD)
Posted by: SH at December 17, 2014 10:56
God knows, I don't either. Hell, I don't want them leading efforts to order lunch for that matter.
Posted by: Jay Guevara at December 17, 2014 11:02 AM (oKE6c)
Who were they, what charges were they held on... were they CONVICTED of anything...
This... smells a LOT like trading 5 Taliban for a Traitor... (which no MSM seems to be willing to follow up on).
Posted by: Wolf, Big Bad, 1 ea. at December 17, 2014 11:02 AM (f0pWu)
This!
Posted by: Velvet Ambition at December 17, 2014 11:02 AM (R8hU8)
Posted by: ThunderB at December 17, 2014 11:03 AM (zOTsN)
there will be throngs of people greeting him
babies will be named Obama
Obama Rubio?
Sounds legit.
Posted by: rickb223 - #IWROY at December 17, 2014 11:03 AM (f3Lr8)
The 3 failures of the Revolution: breakfast, lunch and dinner."
Posted by: navybrat at December 17, 2014 11:03 AM (JgC5a)
Posted by: SH at December 17, 2014 11:04 AM (gmeXX)
284 Cuba could re-establish itself as a Las Vegas with nice beaches.
Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at December 17, 2014 10:51 AM (0LHZx)
That's called The Bahamas.
Posted by: buzzion at December 17, 2014 10:55 AM (zt+N6)
_______________
Is The Bahamas known for casinos? I know they exist, but I don't think people go there FOR gambling. They go there for the beaches and oh look, there's a casino here too.
Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at December 17, 2014 11:04 AM (0LHZx)
We MUST normalize relations with Cuba...
I hear they have some pretty good golf courses...
Posted by: Obama, watching Mark Cuban talk on ESPN at December 17, 2014 11:04 AM (f0pWu)
I will never forget some stupid leftist bitch saying that on Fox.
Posted by: buzzion at December 17, 2014 11:04 AM (zt+N6)
Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at December 17, 2014 10:59 AM (l1zOH)
Maybe the guy who did "Trigger" is still available.
Posted by: Jay Guevara at December 17, 2014 11:04 AM (oKE6c)
Posted by: Trunk Monkey, Aiming His Torpedo at December 17, 2014 11:04 AM (32Ze2)
Posted by: Roy at December 17, 2014 11:04 AM (VndSC)
Posted by: ThunderB at December 17, 2014 11:03 AM (zOTsN)
----
You left off medical care. Cuba has the best medicine in the world.
Posted by: SH at December 17, 2014 11:04 AM (gmeXX)
Posted by: Costanza Defense
I will not bet against that.
I will place a wager that gay activists and freedom of speech heors will get veeeeerrry quiet.
Posted by: Blue Hen at December 17, 2014 10:59 AM (Spluw
Hardly anyone in that country has ever known freedom. Yeah, we can normalize relations, yeah the Castros can die. It still will continue to be a poor socialist nation. Should we normalize relations? I am ambivalent. I see positives as well as negatives. But, King Shit will turn it into a pile of steaming dog shit sure as I am sitting here.
Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at December 17, 2014 11:04 AM (l1zOH)
Posted by: Jay Guevara
We have that chance simply by being the number two economy n the world and being 90 miles away.
Instead of this "it's time" crap, we need an analysison whether US involvement is likely to help or hurt things. That needs to include the status of Guantanamo.
Sadly, we do little public policy like this.
Posted by: Blue Hen at December 17, 2014 11:04 AM (Spluw)
Posted by: ThunderB at December 17, 2014 11:03 AM (zOTsN)
__________
NoKo is in a league all its own in terms of awfulness. Cuba sucks, but it's not NoKo...nothing is today.
Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at December 17, 2014 11:05 AM (0LHZx)
Posted by: blogforce one at December 17, 2014 11:05 AM (i8Auu)
Stand back for the cognitive dissonance from the left.
Yay - Cuber!
Boo - Smoking bad! Shun them!
Wait! Um,
Posted by: rickb223 - #IWROY at December 17, 2014 11:06 AM (f3Lr8)
places in the same region with the same weather. And they have much
nicer amenities. And you're not helping to prop up a dictator. is it
cheaper? Doe it give them some fake sophistication to go visit Uncle
Fidel?
Posted by: Blue Hen at December 17, 2014 10:25 AM (Spluw)"
Cuba is notorious as a place where you can buy sex with young boys. That is why Gary Glitter was living there. It is closer and cheaper than Thailand.
Other than that, I can't think of any unique attractions it offers.
Posted by: Obnoxious A-Hole at December 17, 2014 11:06 AM (PD6iL)
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at December 17, 2014 10:07 AM (Zu3d9) I'm with you on this one. Give Castro's Cuba nothing, ever. Ever.
Posted by: troyriser at December 17, 2014 11:07 AM (f56b1)
Posted by: Nip Sip at December 17, 2014 11:07 AM (0FSuD)
Posted by: Baldy at December 17, 2014 11:07 AM (+35FH)
Posted by: Costanza Defense at December 17, 2014 10:57 AM (ZPrif)
Absolutely. A sort of low-rent "Nixon goes to China" moment.
Posted by: Jay Guevara at December 17, 2014 11:07 AM (oKE6c)
Atlantic City is dying.
Much less need to travel for gambling now.
Cuba has beaches. Gambling as as an extra to the resorts and beaches, sure, but gambling alone doesn't have much pull anymore.
Posted by: Costanza Defense at December 17, 2014 11:07 AM (ZPrif)
My understanding is the expats would prefer Cuba be independent and free of all communism, including the kind coming from DC.
Posted by: Ian S. at December 17, 2014 11:07 AM (B/VB5)
----
^ THIS!!
Posted by: fixerupper at December 17, 2014 11:07 AM (NaV4z)
I can hear the shred of Harry Reid's zipper from here.
Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at December 17, 2014 11:08 AM (zF6Iw)
Posted by: Buzzsaw at December 17, 2014 11:08 AM (Mxs5H)
Posted by: Costanza Defense at December 17, 2014 11:07 AM (ZPrif)
FIFY
Posted by: Nip Sip at December 17, 2014 11:08 AM (0FSuD)
Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo
Bing "bahama casinos + atlantis"
Yeah, wife wants to go soley for the casino.
Posted by: rickb223 - #IWROY at December 17, 2014 11:09 AM (f3Lr8)
Posted by: ThunderB at December 17, 2014 11:10 AM (zOTsN)
Much less need to travel for gambling now.
Yeah. Dems are trying to blame it on the fat man, but there's casinos in Pennsylvania, Delaware, and Maryland now so why would gamblers go to AC?
Posted by: Ian S. at December 17, 2014 11:10 AM (B/VB5)
Posted by: andycanuck at December 17, 2014 11:10 AM (Dw98+)
Send em back to Cuba.
Posted by: Nip Sip at December 17, 2014 11:10 AM (0FSuD)
Hey.... that reminds me...
We MUST normalize relations with Cuba...
I hear they have some pretty good golf courses...
Posted by: Obama, watching Mark Cuban talk on ESPN at December 17, 2014 11:04 AM (f0pWu)"
The story I heard some years ago was that shortly after The Revolution, Che Guevara beat Fidel Castro in a game of golf and after that Castro had the golf courses turned into housing developments so, at least for a while there were no golf courses in Cuba.
I suppose that they have probably built new ones for the Canadian and European tourist trade.
Posted by: Obnoxious A-Hole at December 17, 2014 11:11 AM (PD6iL)
people are desperate and starving
Cheap hookers, yeah.
Hot? What is the timeline between hot/starving and meth addict look?
Posted by: rickb223 - #IWROY at December 17, 2014 11:12 AM (f3Lr8)
Posted by: Buck Farky
I could easily imagine Obongo giving that back, channeling that asshole Jimmy Carter giving away the Panama Canal. /shudder
Posted by: Jay Guevara at December 17, 2014 11:13 AM (oKE6c)
Seems most Americans live less than an hour's drive from some sort of gambling outlet these days.
Posted by: Costanza Defense at December 17, 2014 11:13 AM (ZPrif)
Posted by: Alec Leamas at December 17, 2014 11:13 AM (nnkXw)
this is to keep Florida
this is about electoral politics
Posted by: ThunderB at December 17, 2014 11:13 AM (zOTsN)
You know I can see you typing, right?
Posted by: Teh DNC at December 17, 2014 11:13 AM (DL2i+)
Posted by: troyriser at December 17, 2014 11:14 AM (f56b1)
No. I've been dead for a while now.
Posted by: zombie roy rogers at December 17, 2014 11:14 AM (Dw98+)
Posted by: Trunk Monkey, Aiming His Torpedo at December 17, 2014 11:14 AM (32Ze2)
Iran is his big one, but I'm sure there are other things the Left has on their YOLO list.
Posted by: Costanza Defense at December 17, 2014 11:14 AM (ZPrif)
Posted by: tofer732 at December 17, 2014 11:15 AM (2zM0P)
The most important thing is to realize that this effectively puts the last nail in the coffin of that touchy-feely "soft power" bullshit. 50+ years of economic sanctions (the "big gun" of soft power) and it hasn't changed Cuba's behavior.
At. All.
It's an admission that soft power isn't power at all.
Posted by: IllTemperedCur at December 17, 2014 11:16 AM (TIIx5)
Posted by: Trunk Monkey, as Voiced by Brian Dennehy at December 17, 2014 11:16 AM (32Ze2)
Posted by: Trunk Monkey, Aiming His Torpedo
Yup. That, or go see the shows. Oddly, it was cheaper to see some retread rock groups (Yes) there than in Philly.
Posted by: Blue Hen at December 17, 2014 11:16 AM (Spluw)
Posted by: Obnoxious A-Hole at December 17, 2014 11:11 AM (PD6iL)
Bespeaks a very mature and well-adjusted personality.
Seriously, though, if true, this story supports my long-held suspicion: that Castro dimed his charismatic compadre in Bolivia, to turn a rival into an instant martyr.
Posted by: Jay Guevara at December 17, 2014 11:16 AM (oKE6c)
Posted by: troyriser at December 17, 2014 11:16 AM (f56b1)
Posted by: Costanza Defense
Sadly, we're off of that list.
Posted by: Yazidi women at December 17, 2014 11:17 AM (Spluw)
Drew, I assume you aren't old enough to have been around when all this started.
Castro took money from the US, we helped him overthrow Batista, we praised and feted him and once he was in power he purposefully spit in our face.
He also invited the Russians in and it's speculated that he was going to bypass (or get rid of) the Russians at some point and start making threats.
He (and the country as they seem unable or unwilling to dislodge him) has been a thorn in the side of the US, has poisoned our relations with SA and has done everything he can to foment trouble in Central and Southern America.
He has also helped foment trouble in Africa and caused uncountable harm to the continent.
He is a vicious person on the level with Stalin, Lenin and Mao. His presence and influence is still on going.
When he's dead we can talk.
Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That at December 17, 2014 11:17 AM (RZzX3)
Posted by: andycanuck at December 17, 2014 11:18 AM (Dw98+)
Posted by: andycanuck at December 17, 2014 11:19 AM (Dw98+)
Posted by: Trunk Monkey, as Voiced by Brian Dennehy at December 17, 2014 11:20 AM (32Ze2)
Posted by: Jay Guevara at December 17, 2014 11:13 AM (oKE6c)
Interesting note: I was in the Canal Zone (Rodman) celebrating New Years 1998/1999, the day we gave it back.
Posted by: Buck Farky at December 17, 2014 11:21 AM (0wiDy)
Posted by: tofer732 at December 17, 2014 11:15 AM (2zM0P)
I'll take a stab at this. An economic upturn would mean that some people would inevitably get wealthier legally or illegally (Communism notwithstanding), which would show others how much better they could live if only the state would get out of the way.
It's why California hates Texas; California is circling the bowl, and despite all the liberal bullshit, knows it, whereas Texas is thriving. That drives liberals here crazy, and they go out of their way to denigrate that success by asserting that Texas is only creating low wage jobs, or is thriving because of oil (which California also has, of course).
Posted by: Jay Guevara at December 17, 2014 11:21 AM (oKE6c)
Posted by: Adirondack Patriot at December 17, 2014 11:21 AM (iAUf+)
Posted by: Buck Farky at December 17, 2014 11:22 AM (0wiDy)
Cuba is notorious as a place where you can buy sex with young boys. That is why Gary Glitter was living there. It is closer and cheaper than Thailand.
Other than that, I can't think of any unique attractions it offers.
Posted by: Obnoxious A-Hole at December 17, 2014 11:06
Thought he lived in Viet Nam
Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at December 17, 2014 11:24 AM (l1zOH)
Seems most Americans live less than an hour's drive from some sort of gambling outlet these days.
For most of Texas, it's 3 plus hours.
2+ for those around DFW, Houston, and East Texas. (Shreveport, Oklahoma, and cruise ships out of Galveston)
Posted by: rickb223 - #IWROY at December 17, 2014 11:24 AM (f3Lr8)
Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That at December 17, 2014 11:17 AM (RZzX3)
Castro is an a-hole, no two ways about it, but as a dead man walking he's irrelevant to this discussion. The problem with waiting until he's dead is that all unshirted hell could break loose within hours of his death, and then it would be too late for us to try to influence how things play out. We'd need to be on the ground, and have contacts, before he croaks, to affect subsequent events.
Posted by: Jay Guevara at December 17, 2014 11:24 AM (oKE6c)
Posted by: DaveA at December 17, 2014 11:25 AM (DL2i+)
Posted by: Davod at December 17, 2014 11:27 AM (FWznJ)
When he's dead we can talk.
Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That at December 17, 2014 11:17 AM (RZzX3)
Or, to quote Uncle Joe Stalin, "no man, no problem".
Posted by: IllTemperedCur at December 17, 2014 11:27 AM (TIIx5)
Posted by: tofer732 at December 17, 2014 11:15 AM (2zM0P
It may end Communism but it won't end socialism and it wont become a capitalist democracy. Its been a socialist country for 55 years. The state may lighten up its heavy hand, but it will be a typical socialist country. Some will do well and others will have their hands out.
Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at December 17, 2014 11:27 AM (l1zOH)
Posted by: MacGruber at December 17, 2014 11:28 AM (sgrzZ)
No. I've been dead for a while now.
Posted by: zombie roy rogers at December 17, 2014 11:14 AM (Dw98+)
Roy Rogers was a taxidermist??
Posted by: Jay Guevara at December 17, 2014 11:28 AM (oKE6c)
...but everything revolves around the Cult of Castro (and Che)... and the Castros are very, very rich. Example: all those factories built by Western/European companies... they make a big deal out of saying they pay Cuban workers 'standard wages' (10-15 euros/hr).
No... they hand all those paychecks over to the Cuban government... then the govt cuts a check giving those same workers the equivalent of $1-5/day. Wanna guess where the difference goes?
Cubans are deliberately kept poor... and isolated, in spite of all the touristas flowing into Cuba. Everything is geared towards maintaining state power, and the perpetuation of the Glorious Revolucion mythos.
IF this is happening, don't hold your breath waiting to see if any of the above changes...
Posted by: CPT. Charles at December 17, 2014 11:31 AM (/mTq0)
The thing is, the purpose of the embargo was to bring the Cuban communist government down, but few or none of our allies cooperated with us. They let us deny ourselves trade with Cuba, while they traded all they could, making our embargo ineffective. They did the same with our attempts to contain the USSR, undermining us at every opportunity and prolonging the Cold War. It's evil that "allies" we spend money to defend undermine our efforts.
Posted by: despair at December 17, 2014 11:31 AM (dcY7v)
Posted by: Davod at December 17, 2014 11:31 AM (FWznJ)
2. We will finance and burn money while Russia is hurting.
3. Winners: Russia and Cuba.
4. Loser: USA.
Posted by: Jukin at December 17, 2014 11:31 AM (WGm5T)
Posted by: tbd at December 17, 2014 11:35 AM (d89sA)
Posted by: Davod at December 17, 2014 11:36 AM (FWznJ)
Posted by: Zombie Steinbrenner at December 17, 2014 11:40 AM (6jtis)
Besides those Habaneros need parts for their used 1954 Dodge sedans. And doesn't Cuba have a great medical system?
And we don't even have to "off" Fidel with an exploding cigar. The natural aging process will take care of that. Or maybe Obozo could take one last drone shot and do the job.
But it could be that far into the dim future, Obozo can look back and point to his sole "accomplishment"--he climbed beween the sheets with Fidel.
Posted by: Comanche Voter at December 17, 2014 11:40 AM (wdHk6)
We long touted how increasing our commercial relations and international communications with the USSRplayed such big roles in achieving the demise of the Soviet Union. We do/did the same with China
Why would it have been any different if we hadrecognized tradewith Cuba? Yeah, give the sugar barons and the Cuban exiles a decent period to get adjusted to the fact that there is no going back - say5 or 8 or 10years or so. But then stop pretending that Cuba doesn't exist. It's been a stupid policy at least since the Johnson years.
Posted by: Hari Seldon at December 17, 2014 11:41 AM (PEgKF)
Used parts? We had C for C. Gone, all gone. We pissed it away.
Queso-eating surrender monkeys. Lost our nerve. OK. We deserve it. Let's go.
Posted by: Stringer Davis at December 17, 2014 11:46 AM (xq1UY)
Only took six years...
Even so, I'll wait this out before chalking it up as a "win" for the US to make sure we don't just give them the kitchen sink only to see all those prisoners back in jail within a month.
Posted by: likeatimebomb at December 17, 2014 11:46 AM (UOCgX)
Only took six years..
----------------------------
My goodness, an optimistic Moron.
Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at December 17, 2014 11:49 AM (l1zOH)
Obama's stupid, but he's not stupid-stupid, if you know what I mean.
Posted by: Severian at December 17, 2014 11:51 AM (8dzZc)
<i>There's too much legal gambling now</i>
Tons in Mississippi and Louisiana. Why bother with Vegas, when tunica is a busride away?
Posted by: Lea at December 17, 2014 11:58 AM (lIU4e)
An assload if vintage vehicles will be on the market soon.
Posted by: Minnfidel at December 17, 2014 10:09 AM (bXdYS)
Will this hurt the market value of the 55-57 Chevy?
Posted by: maddogg at December 17, 2014 10:09 AM (xWW96)
No, and no. Having spoken to other Canadians who have visited Cuba, those "vintage" vehicles are mainly held together with paint. Look good from 50 feet, but when you get close, there are a million things wrong with them. Few have the original engine, for example.
Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at December 17, 2014 12:00 PM (8Fl6F)
Yes. Yes. The fake shit will do.
Posted by: LoneStarHeeb at December 17, 2014 12:00 PM (BZAd3)
I disagree that this is the right time. Try in two-three months if Venezuela has to cut the petroleum subsidy that is keeping the Castro's afloat. Then the US can wring some real human rightsconcessions out of them.
Posted by: TD at December 17, 2014 12:06 PM (vhp4I)
Posted by: TallDave at December 17, 2014 12:36 PM (/s1LA)
Clarity from Drew at last. Recognition of who are really competing for president.
Posted by: Bob from Ohio at December 17, 2014 01:02 PM (t3cNy)
Posted by: profligatewaste at December 17, 2014 01:26 PM (R3JkO)
Posted by: Regmodels.ru at December 17, 2014 05:41 PM (LqKrZ)
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Iraqi Prisoner Claims He Was Raped... By Woman
Wonkette Announces "Morning Zoo" Format
John Kerry's "Plan" Causes Surrender of Moqtada al-Sadr's Militia
World Muslim Leaders Apologize for Nick Berg's Beheading
Michael Moore Goes on Lunchtime Manhattan Death-Spree
Milestone: Oliver Willis Posts 400th "Fake News Article" Referencing Britney Spears
Liberal Economists Rue a "New Decade of Greed"
Artificial Insouciance: Maureen Dowd's Word Processor Revolts Against Her Numbing Imbecility
Intelligence Officials Eye Blogs for Tips
They Done Found Us Out, Cletus: Intrepid Internet Detective Figures Out Our Master Plan
Shock: Josh Marshall Almost Mentions Sarin Discovery in Iraq
Leather-Clad Biker Freaks Terrorize Australian Town
When Clinton Was President, Torture Was Cool
What Wonkette Means When She Explains What Tina Brown Means
Wonkette's Stand-Up Act
Wankette HQ Gay-Rumors Du Jour
Here's What's Bugging Me: Goose and Slider
My Own Micah Wright Style Confession of Dishonesty
Outraged "Conservatives" React to the FMA
An On-Line Impression of Dennis Miller Having Sex with a Kodiak Bear
The Story the Rightwing Media Refuses to Report!
Our Lunch with David "Glengarry Glen Ross" Mamet
The House of Love: Paul Krugman
A Michael Moore Mystery (TM)
The Dowd-O-Matic!
Liberal Consistency and Other Myths
Kepler's Laws of Liberal Media Bias
John Kerry-- The Splunge! Candidate
"Divisive" Politics & "Attacks on Patriotism" (very long)
The Donkey ("The Raven" parody)