Peter Orzag, Obama's Budget Director in 2009, Lauds "Cadillac Plan" Tax Chicanery As More "Viable" Than Other Possibilities

So Obama cannot claim he didn't know. Peter Orzag talks about Obamcare phasing out the health care exemption, through the deceptive means of indexing the "Cadillac Plan" threshold to slow-growing CPI rather than fast-moving (and accurate) rate of medical inflation.

He also states that they went about phasing out the health care exemption because certain people -- unnamed, but he means Obama -- had demagogued McCain's honest discussion of ending the exemption (replacing it with a tax credit), and, as Orzag says, to now embrace an honest plan like McCain's would be "awkward."

So instead they lied.

So this is what happened:

In the 2008 campaign, McCain took the gutsy step of arguing in favor of repealing the health care exemption -- gusty, because while most Pointy Heads agreed this would make the best policy, most people just say "You're gonna tax my health insurance?!"

And note McCain offered a $10,000 or so tax credit in the deal -- so that most people would not experience any negative tax consequences from the change in the law.

Obama ran against this and demagogued McCain on the issue. He promised he would not tax your health insurance.

As soon as he's elected, Obama begins scheming as to how he can tax people's health insurance -- this time, not bothering to offer the $10,000 tax credit, which would make people net-neutral on the deal. He wants to tax them more. So no tax credit.

And since he just got done demagoguing the issue, he has to do it secretly. So he gets together with Orzag and Gruber to repeal the exemption over the course of years, as the "Cadillac Plan" threshold fails to keep pace with actual inflation.

So where are we now? Well, according to Gruber, we are 20 years away from all plans being taxed at 40% rate, which means that most employers won't offer them, and will just dump people on to the government exchanges.

They'll give people some cash in lieu of health care-- which will be taxed (unlike the health care benefits, making the middle class triple losers on the deal).

And the MSM is embargoing this, instead choosing to talk about Kim Kardashian's asshole.


Thanks to MorgenR.

Posted by: Ace at 05:31 PM




Comments

(Jump to bottom of page)

1 Does it ever end with these bastards?

Posted by: Witchfinder at November 14, 2014 05:32 PM (E1Cat)

2 1 Does it ever end with these bastards?
Posted by: Witchfinder at November 14, 2014 05:32 PM (E1Cat)

when they all assume room temperature, then it will be over...

Posted by: MikeH at November 14, 2014 05:34 PM (4OZqu)

3 Hang em high!

Posted by: Snafu at November 14, 2014 05:34 PM (H7OH0)

4 So this is what the USSR felt like psychologically.

Huh.

Who knew?

Posted by: Sean Bannion at November 14, 2014 05:34 PM (V+kmg)

5 I sincerely hope we are witnessing the unraveling of this monstrosity. I'll probably be disappointed.

Posted by: no good deed at November 14, 2014 05:34 PM (w3a0Z)

6 I'm gonna have no voice left soon!

Posted by: Joe Wilson at November 14, 2014 05:34 PM (nlPax)

7 Hell, handbasket, some assembly required.

Posted by: dantesed at November 14, 2014 05:34 PM (88xKn)

8 You know, an opposition party would be pointing these things out.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, International Double-Naught Cat Speculator at November 14, 2014 05:34 PM (0HooB)

9 4 So this is what the USSR felt like psychologically.

Huh.

Who knew?
Posted by: Sean Bannion at November 14, 2014 05:34 PM (V+kmg)

But they got cheap vodka.

Posted by: Jean at November 14, 2014 05:35 PM (TETYm)

10

They are who we thought they were.

And they did what we thought they'd do.

Posted by: Soothsayer, All Knowing Of (Approximate) Knowledge at November 14, 2014 05:35 PM (+f7H2)

11 Ha, I was going to use the Joe Wilson sock but I see I've been beat.

Remember the time that EVERYTHING we said about Obamacare was accurate?

Posted by: Lauren at November 14, 2014 05:35 PM (BPMYx)

12 If only all they has said all these damning things on tape before the 2012 election!

Oh, wait ...

Posted by: Costanza Defense at November 14, 2014 05:35 PM (ZPrif)

13

...and they're doing what we think they'll do

Posted by: Soothsayer, All Knowing Of (Approximate) Knowledge at November 14, 2014 05:35 PM (+f7H2)

14 8 You know, an opposition party would be pointing these things out.
Posted by: BackwardsBoy, International Double-Naught Cat Speculator at November 14, 2014 05:34 PM (0HooB)

Wait till we finish we amnesty, gay rights, birth control funding...

Posted by: GOPe at November 14, 2014 05:36 PM (4OZqu)

15 But they got cheap vodka.

So do we. *pats Valu-Rite bottle*

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, International Double-Naught Cat Speculator at November 14, 2014 05:36 PM (0HooB)

16 But they got cheap vodka.
Posted by: Jean at November 14, 2014 05:35 PM (TETYm)


And toilet paper that really was 600 grit sandpaper

Posted by: Sean Bannion at November 14, 2014 05:36 PM (V+kmg)

17
Holy fucking shit!!!

sorry for the profanity, but....

Holy fucking shit!!!!

Posted by: rockmom at November 14, 2014 05:36 PM (ye4Wk)

18 The Democrat theme song of the day: http://youtu.be/2j8-_vIplso (SFW, unless they hate 80's videos).

Posted by: Blanco Basura at November 14, 2014 05:36 PM (YEelc)

19 Fck it all Friday.

Posted by: toby928(C) at November 14, 2014 05:36 PM (rwI+c)

20 "So instead they lied."

Ace, you don't need to keep saying this.

It is an assumed underlying framework for every post.

No need to be all repetitive.

Posted by: zombie at November 14, 2014 05:37 PM (K4YiS)

21 'Tis the season for impeachment.
Fa la la la la la la la la.

Posted by: flounder at November 14, 2014 05:37 PM (sDapq)

22 Does it ever end with these bastards?

Posted by: Witchfinder at November 14, 2014 05:32 PM (E1Cat)


The end of a plank, end of a rope, end of a barrel, lots of possible ends.

Posted by: Berserker-Dragonheads Division at November 14, 2014 05:37 PM (FMbng)

23 What is the difference between an 'exemption' and a 'credit'?

Posted by: Marvin the Mechanical at November 14, 2014 05:37 PM (1kSqa)

24 Eh....he seems believable and important....his shirt isn't sexist, and that's all that matters.

Posted by: LIV Feminist at November 14, 2014 05:37 PM (Zu3d9)

25
Why don't you want people to have health care?!?!

Posted by: Anus King at November 14, 2014 05:37 PM (+f7H2)

26 So what it isn't like they oppose gay marriage or say the Pledge of Allegiance.

Posted by: blaster at November 14, 2014 05:37 PM (kgG7o)

27 Deck the halls with swinging traitors.
Fa la la la la la la la la.

Posted by: flounder at November 14, 2014 05:37 PM (sDapq)

28
That's just cruel!

Posted by: Anus King at November 14, 2014 05:38 PM (+f7H2)

29 23 What is the difference between an 'exemption' and a 'credit'?

Posted by: Marvin the Mechanical at November 14, 2014 05:37 PM (1kSqa)

Bending over versus swallowing

Posted by: MikeH at November 14, 2014 05:38 PM (4OZqu)

30 They're what we thought they were.

Posted by: Dennis Green at November 14, 2014 05:38 PM (rwI+c)

31 This whole thing is crashing like the Bernie Madoff con.

Posted by: redenzo at November 14, 2014 05:38 PM (WCnJW)

32 Brought over from the dead thread and partially resuscitated:
--------

Silver linings, of sorts: If Roberts had shit-canned this PoS when he had the chance. we'd probably not have all this nice material to rifle through to prove we conservatives were right all along.


Yeah. I'm not congratulating Roberts on his eleventy-dimensional chess playing because I don't think this was his deliberate plan, but if O-care would have been nuked by five right-leaning Supremes before the LIVs had a chance to see how corrupt, deceitful and awful it really was, the Dems would have been gifted the best of all possible worlds. The stinking albatross carcass of O-care would have been removed from their collective necks, while leaving them a license to demagogue the holy shit out of the fact that "hateful conservatives stole the poor peoples' health care. "

This probably could not have played out better for conservatives. These Gruber videos have exposed the entire filthy mess just as the Supreme Court has agreed to hear King v. Burwell. America has never been angrier about getting this steaming shitpile of legislation dumped on them (but just wait until next June!), giving political cover to Roberts and any other weak sisters on the court to pull the trigger and kill the beast.

While it's impossible to be sure, I'm beginning to think this is gonna be great.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at November 14, 2014 05:38 PM (8ZskC)

33 Ace is like a bulldog when he sinks his teeth into an issue. A big, hairy, immune deficient bulldog.

Posted by: Dr Spank at November 14, 2014 05:39 PM (P1WNR)

34 You know, days like this make me glad I get to spend next weekend in the woods away from the world, drinking and occasionally pretending to hunt deer.

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) And father to be in 2 months! at November 14, 2014 05:39 PM (HDwDg)

35 31 This whole thing is crashing like the Bernie Madoff con.
Posted by: redenzo at November 14, 2014 05:38 PM (WCnJW)

And I thought I was the greatest pyramid scheme creator

Posted by: Charles Ponzi at November 14, 2014 05:39 PM (4OZqu)

36
Space junk crashes into comet!!

Yay! Yippee!!

Posted by: Other News on the Look at Me channel at November 14, 2014 05:39 PM (+f7H2)

37 Notice the backdrop behind Orzog. "Woodrow Wilson School".

Posted by: Soona at November 14, 2014 05:39 PM (toS2K)

38 The democrats get voted out.
The republicans don't really get voted it, because voting the democrats out means you have to vote sore someone not democrat.

So the republicans screw it up as bad as the democrats and the next election the republicans get voted out and the democrats are back in.

There is no third choice.

This is called 'progress'

Posted by: Marvin the Mechanical at November 14, 2014 05:39 PM (1kSqa)

39 And the dems respond:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQ56ho5gZxE

Posted by: Lauren at November 14, 2014 05:40 PM (BPMYx)

40 14
8 You know, an opposition party would be pointing these things out.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, International Double-Naught Cat Speculator at November 14, 2014 05:34 PM (0HooB)



Wait till we finish we amnesty, gay rights, birth control funding...

Posted by: GOPe


You know, it's at least possible that:
a) the GOP is only finding out about this at the same time we do, and
b) rather than inserting themselves into the story and giving the Dems an excuse that this is all divisive politics, they're exercising a bit of self-restraint and letting this play out. I'd call it smart politics.

Posted by: pep at November 14, 2014 05:40 PM (4nR9/)

41 Resurrected from this morning.

Some feel good OT.

Baby smiling at 31 weeks ultrasound.

http://preview.tinyurl.com/ld2ow9l

Posted by: flounder at November 14, 2014 05:40 PM (sDapq)

42 33 Ace is like a bulldog when he sinks his teeth into an issue. A big, hairy, immune deficient bulldog.
Posted by: Dr Spank at November 14, 2014 05:39 PM (P1WNR)

More like a crazed Ewok after feasting on Storm Trooper flesh for a month.

Posted by: MikeH at November 14, 2014 05:40 PM (4OZqu)

43 "You know, an opposition party would be pointing these things out."

It occurs to me, on the "pointing out" part, that a case could be made for having a group of people whose job it was to go around and dig up these sorts of important pieces of information about policies which affect the public, and call them to the attention of the public.

We could call them, well, gosh, I don't know, just spitballin' here... "journalists"? Something along those lines.

They could even have their own specialized professional training programs in the universities. To teach them how to run down these important pieces of information, and present them cogently.

Posted by: torquewrench at November 14, 2014 05:40 PM (noWW6)

44 I didn't know....

Posted by: Barky at November 14, 2014 05:40 PM (vPh3W)

45 If their lips are moving they are lying. Got it

Posted by: Nevergiveup at November 14, 2014 05:40 PM (nzKvP)

46 In this con the media was deployed by Obama to cool off the mark(the taxpayer). Classic Rockford Files.

Posted by: redenzo at November 14, 2014 05:41 PM (WCnJW)

47 Ace, you may want to point this out:

Rednecks, hillbillies and racist bitter-clinger already figured out that "Obamacare" was a gigantic scam way back when it was still being "debated" in the House. Our side was never fooled.

What Gruber & Co are taling about is fooling the stupid liberals who after all are the "base" Obama needed to back him up on this -- even though the (employed) liberals will also suffer as a result of Obamacare's depredations.

This is an internal scandal -- diabolical prog-commies deceiving naive middle-class libs.

Posted by: zombie at November 14, 2014 05:41 PM (K4YiS)

48 Tonight is the Cornhole Tournament at Church. Oddly appropriate.

Posted by: toby928(C) at November 14, 2014 05:41 PM (rwI+c)

49 Glad you're feeling better brother.

You have to wonder, where Republicans are in this entire thing. There are rumors that Boehner and McConnell will not go the full repeal route. Reason? Because it is "inextricable" in their words. For us real, regular thinking people with a brain that means they don't have the political will or temerity.

I don't see how with these new revelations it is not rolled back completely and one of their famous (infamous?) alternatives is offered up.

Either way, for the American people that Democrats have willfully and deliberately duped, Obamacare needs to die a very public death at the hands of our representatives.

Posted by: Marcus T at November 14, 2014 05:42 PM (vs7Be)

50 I'm outraged!

Posted by: Barry O'bama at November 14, 2014 05:42 PM (l3vZN)

51 I'd call it smart politics.
Posted by: pep at November 14, 2014 05:40 PM (4nR9/)


Hahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahah

Stop! Please stop! I'm gonna piss myself!

Hahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaah

Posted by: weirdflunkyonatablet at November 14, 2014 05:42 PM (+TquE)

52 24
Eh....he seems believable and important....his shirt isn't sexist, and that's all that matters.

Posted by: LIV Feminis


I don't know, his tie looks pretty suspect, and who knows about his drawers?

Posted by: pep at November 14, 2014 05:42 PM (4nR9/)

53 Posted by: flounder at November 14, 2014 05:40 PM (sDapq

Seems just as good a thread as any to go from "months" to "weeks" in my nick.

(Plus it's exactly 7 now using the due date.)

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) And father to be in 7 (short) weeks! at November 14, 2014 05:42 PM (HDwDg)

54
Either way, for the American people that Democrats have willfully and deliberately duped, Obamacare needs to die a very public death at the hands of our representatives.
Posted by: Marcus T at November 14, 2014 05:42 PM (vs7Be)

Wait until we pass the National Minimum Wage Act

Posted by: GOPe at November 14, 2014 05:43 PM (4OZqu)

55 yeah, I do not agree with the contortions roberts went through to make his ruling about the tax.

however, as much as I would have enjoyed having the the supremes strike down obamacare, there is value in doing it the right way aka, throught the legislative process, not having the court ride in and save everyone.

I do hope the supremes rule our way on halbig vs whoever.

Posted by: n at November 14, 2014 05:43 PM (iBXmZ)

56 This is an internal scandal -- diabolical prog-commies deceiving naive middle-class libs.

Normally, I'd be sorta glad to see this come crashing down around them. But since this is what they're doing with one sixth of the economy, I'm not so sure.

If Pissy Chrissy Matthews gets upset, then I'll be happy.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, International Double-Naught Cat Speculator at November 14, 2014 05:44 PM (0HooB)

57 The only problem I am having with this is my constant expectation that a nation obsessed with a phony baloney no talented whore exposing her ass on Twitter is going to be able to understand that in a few short years the amount of money their employer spends on them for healthcare will soon be taxable.

And, from experience, try explaining to the terminally stupid why a canceled credit card debt counts as income.

Posted by: Mallamutt, RINO President of the Sheena Easton Fan Club at November 14, 2014 05:44 PM (OWjjx)

58 (Plus it's exactly 7 now using the due date.)

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) And father to be in 7 (short) weeks! at November 14, 2014 05:42 PM (HDwDg)
Congrats! We have 2nd boy coming in January.

Posted by: flounder at November 14, 2014 05:45 PM (sDapq)

59
Ace, when u gonna review THE GIVER?

The more I contemplate the film, the more I like it.

The parts about deleting words [and, thus, attitudes and viewpoints] is pretty much what's goin on right now, albeit in a brute force manner rather than a highly technological manner.

Posted by: Other News on the Look at Me channel at November 14, 2014 05:45 PM (+f7H2)

60 however, as much as I would have enjoyed having the the supremes strike
down obamacare, there is value in doing it the right way aka, throught
the legislative process, not having the court ride in and save everyone.




I do hope the supremes rule our way on halbig vs whoever.


While the "adopted kids" conspiracy theory has a certain piquance, I think Roberts knew this was a fatal flaw in OCare all along.

Posted by: pep at November 14, 2014 05:45 PM (4nR9/)

61 8
You know, an opposition party would be pointing these things out.

Doing so may delay the holiday recess. What are you, a barbarian?

Posted by: Addison Mitchell McConnell, Jr. at November 14, 2014 05:46 PM (XzRw1)

62

Alternate post title:

When People Have The Right To Choose, They Choose Wrong

Posted by: Other News on the Look at Me channel at November 14, 2014 05:46 PM (+f7H2)

63 pep at November 14, 2014 05:40 PM (4nR9/)

I agree. I also have to believe that Republicans in Congress are pretty sick of the shit they've been through for the last 6 years and now they are watching all the lies unravel in front of them and the world, well part of it anyway, they have got to be pissed.

I wouldn't want a pissed Trey Gowdy or Jim Jordan coming after me in the still ongoing hearings on IRS, Benghazi, etc.

I think payback is getting warmed up.

Posted by: JackStraw at November 14, 2014 05:46 PM (g1DWB)

64 a nation obsessed with a phony baloney no talented whore exposing her ass on Twitter

I'm afraid you're going to have to be more specific.

Posted by: pep at November 14, 2014 05:47 PM (4nR9/)

65
or...

When People Have All The Information, They Might Make A Different Choice Than You Desire

-- Shih Tzu

Posted by: Other News on the Look at Me channel at November 14, 2014 05:47 PM (+f7H2)

66 What Zombie says,

"What Gruber Co are taling about is fooling the stupid liberals
who after all are the "base" Obama needed to back him up on this --
even though the (employed) liberals will also suffer as a result of
Obamacare's depredations."

Tis true - Lied to Fool the 'D' Legislators - the moderate ones (DINOs?), the rest are authoritarian socialist thugs still disappointed that Barry has not gone full-on Stalin-Mao yet.

Posted by: Burnt Toast at November 14, 2014 05:47 PM (NaeCR)

67 (Plus it's exactly 7 now using the due date.)


Awesome! Congrats!

Posted by: rickb223 at November 14, 2014 05:48 PM (AAJX/)

68 I think payback is getting warmed up.

Pleasepleasepleasepleasepleaseplease.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, International Double-Naught Cat Speculator at November 14, 2014 05:48 PM (0HooB)

69 nation obsessed with a phony baloney no talented whore exposing her ass on Twitter


Heh. I thought you were talking about Barky till I read the pronoun.

Posted by: weirdflunkyonatablet at November 14, 2014 05:48 PM (+TquE)

70 "Kill all the Grubers" -- Shakespeare

Posted by: Dr Spank at November 14, 2014 05:48 PM (P1WNR)

71 Now, we can either obsess over who lied to whom or we can call it day and go home to start the weekend. I'm going with option 2.

Posted by: The Great White Snark at November 14, 2014 05:49 PM (XUKZU)

72 This whole thing is crashing like the Bernie Madoff con.
Posted by: redenzo
----------------------------

Sadly..., no.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at November 14, 2014 05:49 PM (vPh3W)

73 >>55
yeah, I do not agree with the contortions roberts went through to make his ruling about the tax.



however, as much as I would have enjoyed having the the supremes
strike down obamacare, there is value in doing it the right way aka,
throught the legislative process, not having the court ride in and save
everyone.<<

The problem is the argument you just presented is a fallacy.

If the Roberts Court does its job and rules against Obamacare based on very clear law, instead of inventing legal constructs out of thin air, Obamacare dies before we are subjected to its illegality.

That is the "right" way.

Posted by: Marcus T at November 14, 2014 05:49 PM (vs7Be)

74 a nation obsessed with a phony baloney no talented whore exposing her ass on Twitter


I'm afraid you're going to have to be more specific.



Mooch?

Posted by: rickb223 at November 14, 2014 05:49 PM (AAJX/)

75 @68. So, what your saying is Mary Landrieu is looking up and reminding Obama that he promised not to do that thing in her mouth.

Posted by: Mallamutt, RINO President of the Sheena Easton Fan Club at November 14, 2014 05:49 PM (OWjjx)

76 Can we all agree that the guy who leaked the original Gruber video should get the Presidential Medal of Freedom, and that Obama should have to award it personally?

Posted by: pep at November 14, 2014 05:49 PM (4nR9/)

77 I hate dropping a turd in the punchbowl, but I think Gruber's observation about the abject stupidity of the average Democrat voter will also be his salvation.

Lies? Oh that's just politics. Have you seen this picture of Kim Kardashian's ass?

Phasing out an exemption? Great--sounds like the Republicans were just trying to help out their rich friends on Wall Street.

Indexing? I've never been very good at math. Have you seen the latest issue of People?

Posted by: Furious George at November 14, 2014 05:49 PM (UlJ3l)

78 After I've anally raped you, it would be "awkward" to buy you dinner. And if you disagree, you are racist.

Posted by: wooga at November 14, 2014 05:49 PM (0avSO)

79 I'm afraid you're going to have to be more specific.
Posted by: pep at November 14, 2014 05:47 PM (4nR9/)


LOL. Once a Moron...

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at November 14, 2014 05:50 PM (8ZskC)

80 I still say that nothing will come of any of this. The law will not be repealed. The Supremes will give it a pass. We will be stuck with this shit sandwich. The end. Teh JEF will blanket pardon everyone who ever associated with him on the way out. They just have to kick the can down the road another 2 years and then they are off scott free.

Posted by: Truck Monkey, Aiming His Torpedo at November 14, 2014 05:50 PM (32Ze2)

81 OMG, the Kardashian whore who we all saw getting fucked on tape seven fucking years ago is partially show her ass on TMZ!!

To see all of her ass you'd have to ... watch the 7 year old sextape!!!

Posted by: America 2014 at November 14, 2014 05:50 PM (ZPrif)

82 Posted by: flounder at November 14, 2014 05:45 PM (sDapq)

Is round 2 any easier?

Because acquiring all this stuff has been an adventure .

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) And father to be in 7 (short) weeks! at November 14, 2014 05:50 PM (HDwDg)

83 a nation obsessed with a phony baloney no talented whore exposing her ass on Twitter

I'm afraid you're going to have to be more specific.
Posted by: pep at November 14, 2014 05:47 PM (4nR9/)



hey, hey now, denegrating naked asses is madness. what am I gonna do between gruber posts? I toggle back and forth between naked assess and videos of an ass in a cheap suits.

Posted by: n at November 14, 2014 05:50 PM (iBXmZ)

84 a nation obsessed with a phony baloney no talented whore exposing her ass on Twitter

I'm afraid you're going to have to be more specific.
Posted by: pep at November 14, 2014 05:47 PM (4nR9/)



hey, hey now, denegrating naked asses is madness. what am I gonna do between gruber posts? I toggle back and forth between naked assess and videos of an ass in a cheap suits.

Posted by: n at November 14, 2014 05:50 PM (iBXmZ)

85 Pretty decent of all these miscreants to confess to their crimes in public forums. Or else, they were confident that they were untouchable. In which case, not so decent, just entitled.

Posted by: Edgar Allan Schmoe at November 14, 2014 05:50 PM (G6hxk)

86 Oh great I just found this little blurb at The National Institute for Health Care Management.


Taxing Sin to Modify Behavior and Raise Revenue

Sin taxes on tobacco and alcohol have a long history in the U.S.,, and many credit cigarette taxes as being the single most effective strategy in achieving our dramatic reductions in smoking. Similar taxes have been proposed in recent years as one weapon in our fight against rising obesity rates, and a new study has just added support for this policy by showing that higher prices for sweetened sodas are associated with lower caloric intake, lower weight and better health. In this essay, Dr. Jonathan Gruber reviews the rationales for and experience with sin taxes for cigarettes and alcoholic beverages and offers his insights on using sin taxes to combat obesity.
By Jonathan Gruber, PhD,Professor of Economics, Massachusetts Institute of Technology, April 2010.


So theory being they are going to 'weaponize' taxes to get you to modify your behavior--it's almost like a nuclear-- B. F. Skinner.

Posted by: Your Friendly Danube River Guide at November 14, 2014 05:51 PM (RJMhd)

87 "With smiling bastards lying to you, everywhere you go!"

It really is lies all the way down! The interesting thing is that they haven't fired a shot yet. (Well, except for Ruby Ridge, Waco, etc.)

Posted by: Mary Ellen Carter at November 14, 2014 05:51 PM (vPh3W)

88 a nation obsessed with a phony baloney no talented whore exposing her ass on Twitter
----------------------------

It was tanned and well oiled, plus sized, nicely accessorized and without that kinky, stink string.

Posted by: Marvin the Mechanical at November 14, 2014 05:51 PM (1kSqa)

89 >>If their lips are moving they are lying.

Don't sell them short. I'm sure they can lie without moving their lips, too.

Posted by: Mama AJ at November 14, 2014 05:51 PM (0xTsz)

90 Posted by: zombie at November 14, 2014 05:41 PM (K4YiS)

Yup!

As I said in the other thread and on twitter:


Reminder: Sarah Palin was warning us about all the stuff Gruber admits to - and media called her the stupid one for not being fooled.

As for taxing, heres another tweet:

First Law of Taxes: No matter who or what is taxed, it is always you, the common citizen, who ends up paying for the tax.

Posted by: @votermom at November 14, 2014 05:51 PM (JodXF)

91 Flounder,
Yes, ,Tis the Season for impeachment.

Posted by: Carol at November 14, 2014 05:51 PM (sj3Ax)

92 You know, an opposition party would be pointing these things out.
-----------------
Nooooo..., nooo.
That wouldn't be prudent.

Posted by: Mitch McConell at November 14, 2014 05:51 PM (vPh3W)

93 And I am pretty sure Nancy Pelosi has finally, completely lost it. I honestly feel there is some type of mental imbalance at work...

Posted by: Marcus T at November 14, 2014 05:51 PM (vs7Be)

94 Awesome! Congrats!

Due on a Friday? You are aware that may cut into your drinking night.

I was three sheets to the wind on the night BBoy Squared was born. The Daughter of Satan tapped me on the shoulder and said, "It's time, let's go" right in the middle of a party.

Congrats!

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, International Double-Naught Cat Speculator at November 14, 2014 05:52 PM (0HooB)

95 And honestly, what is the obsession with her fat ass anyway. Hit a treadmill.

Posted by: Mallamutt, RINO President of the Sheena Easton Fan Club at November 14, 2014 05:52 PM (OWjjx)

96 OMG, the Kardashian whore who we all saw getting fucked on tape seven fucking years ago is partially show her ass on TMZ!!

To see all of her ass you'd have to ... watch the 7 year old sextape!!!
Posted by: America 2014 at November 14, 2014



its not easy to see in the tape, there is something in it or blocking it the hole time.

Posted by: n at November 14, 2014 05:52 PM (iBXmZ)

97 I hate dropping a turd in the punchbowl, but I think Gruber's observation about the abject stupidity of the average Democrat voter will also be his salvation.

Lies? Oh that's just politics. Have you seen this picture of Kim Kardashian's ass?

Phasing out an exemption? Great--sounds like the Republicans were just trying to help out their rich friends on Wall Street.

Indexing? I've never been very good at math. Have you seen the latest issue of People?

Posted by: Furious George at November 14, 2014 05:49 PM (UlJ3l)




This is exactly the concept I was trying to convey in an earlier thread.


*We* are outraged. *We* understand this. But *We* aren't Democrat voters, and *THEY* will not grasp the significance of this at all, or even if they did, it will not change their position.


They will still vote for more sweet sweet Democrat goodness.

Posted by: D-Lamp at November 14, 2014 05:52 PM (txvbW)

98 First Law of Taxes: No matter who or what is taxed, it is always you, the common citizen, who ends up paying for the tax.
Posted by: @votermom
-----------------

No way man..., no way. We tax the the big corporations.

Posted by: Typical LIV at November 14, 2014 05:53 PM (vPh3W)

99 Just in time for all of those great websites to be up and running, fully functional tomorrow...sic

Posted by: akula51 at November 14, 2014 05:53 PM (R5qgD)

100 *We* are outraged. *We* understand this. But *We* aren't Democrat voters, and *THEY* will not grasp the significance of this at all, or even if they did, it will not change their position.
--------------------

'THEY' will never know.

Posted by: MFM at November 14, 2014 05:53 PM (vPh3W)

101 I'd be willing to bet that this particular talk set a near Guinness book of records level of impromptu simulated masturbatory hand gestures among those who attended.

Like Orzag unconsciously working that microphone.

Posted by: Fritz at November 14, 2014 05:54 PM (dVmLD)

102 @25, an exemption is something the business is allowed to deduct from their overall revenue as an allowed expense. Like, if I made $10,000 and I spent $1,000 on insurance for my employees, then my taxable income is $9,000. That other expense "exempts" or offsets part of my income.

A tax credit, on the other hand, is a direct payment by the government to a person. I say, "I filed my taxes and I meet XYZ criteria." And they cut me a check (either literally if I've paid enough taxes or by lowering the amount of taxes I owe).

Getting rid of exemptions, by the way, is a TERRIBLE idea. They should get rid of part of the reason health insurance exists to begin with -- income taxes.

Posted by: sunny-dee at November 14, 2014 05:54 PM (EBoCD)

103 Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) And father to be in 7 (short) weeks! at November 14, 2014 05:42 PM (HDwDg)

I wouldn't count on the time. My boy surprised us and showed up 6 weeks early. Emergency c-section, like Kool-Aid man busting through a brick wall. Oh yeah!

Posted by: wooga at November 14, 2014 05:54 PM (0avSO)

104 85
Pretty decent of all these miscreants to confess to their crimes in
public forums. Or else, they were confident that they were untouchable.
In which case, not so decent, just entitled.


We talk a lot on this site about how liberals want "positional goods", aka social status conveyed by beliefs or poses. This is Exhibit A. The guy just couldn't keep his mouth shut; he had to let everyone know just how smart he was, and by extension how dumb everyone else was. It is the essence of progressivism, and really banal in an MIT professor. I wonder how many lockers he was stuffed into in Junior High to make him need to compensate like this?

Posted by: pep at November 14, 2014 05:54 PM (4nR9/)

105 5 I sincerely hope we are witnessing the unraveling of this monstrosity. I'll probably be disappointed.
Posted by: no good deed at November 14, 2014 05:34 PM (w3a0Z)

You will. Along the way there will be some hopes held out. But those hopes will be dashed by those who fucking know better. Hey politicians leave me the fuck alone

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at November 14, 2014 05:54 PM (RMo/a)

106 'THEY' will never know.
Posted by: MFM



They will when the bill comes due

Posted by: rickb223 at November 14, 2014 05:55 PM (AAJX/)

107 81 OMG, the Kardashian whore who we all saw getting fucked on tape seven fucking years ago is partially show her ass on TMZ!!

To see all of her ass you'd have to ... watch the 7 year old sextape!!!

Posted by: America 2014 at November 14, 2014 05:50 PM (ZPrif)




Or just go to Yahoo, read their headlines, click the one about KK, and see her full frontal.

Or so I've been told...

Posted by: Havedash at November 14, 2014 05:55 PM (G1XMn)

108 Blah, blah, blah.. Kim Kardashian's asshole. I missed that first part . Could you repeat it.

Posted by: dirks strewn at November 14, 2014 05:55 PM (TIgJq)

109 They need to make up their damned minds -

plans being taxed at 40% rate - or- treated as ordinary income -or- both?

Posted by: Burnt Toast at November 14, 2014 05:56 PM (NaeCR)

110 Jack Straw
I really hope you're right about GOP!

Posted by: Carol at November 14, 2014 05:56 PM (sj3Ax)

111 It is the essence of progressivism, and really banal in an MIT professor. I wonder how many lockers he was stuffed into in Junior High to make him need to compensate like this?
Posted by: pep
----------------

I repeat, Gruber is the archetype of the Left/Liberal Elitist.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at November 14, 2014 05:57 PM (vPh3W)

112 If you like your turd blossom, you can keep your turd blossom.

Posted by: Fritz at November 14, 2014 05:57 PM (dVmLD)

113 Round 2. Definitely, at least with the confidence level. You'll quickly determine you needed only patience, lots of love, a warm bed, food, and diapers, lots of diapers. Almost every other little trinket you thought you might need you can get later.

The nice bonus of having a second one be the same sex is the savings on all the clothes. They grow so fast, it is incredible how often you change their clothes out of the dresser. Ours has not been an easier pregnancy, but we are on the home stretch.

Lots of love to Mom, post partum. Depression can sneak in. And good luck on the first two months or so of zombie-like existence. A friend referred to it as baby boot camp.

Posted by: flounder at November 14, 2014 05:57 PM (sDapq)

114 heh, so when are we getting the video of biden and obama discussing his citizenship status?

Posted by: n at November 14, 2014 05:57 PM (iBXmZ)

115 I'm still rich and ur still dumb.

Posted by: Jon Gruber at November 14, 2014 05:58 PM (ZPrif)

116 Blah, blah, blah.. Kim Kardashian's asshole.



Her husband?

Posted by: rickb223 at November 14, 2014 05:58 PM (AAJX/)

117 Show of hands, who thinks anything will change with our feckless representation? One side is full of socialists and coddles the FSA and other side protects its big health industry donors.

Posted by: dogfish at November 14, 2014 05:58 PM (1vYi0)

118 the people they fucked over that had perfectly good plans at reasonable rates is really unforgivable......

Posted by: phoenixgirl @phxazgrl 111 days until spring training at November 14, 2014 05:58 PM (u8GsB)

119 And the MSM is embargoing this, instead choosing to talk about Kim Kardashian's asshole.

What's his name again?

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, International Double-Naught Cat Speculator at November 14, 2014 05:58 PM (0HooB)

120 And this is nowhere to be found in the MSM soooo it didn't happen...

Posted by: helloit's me Donna and I know nuthink! at November 14, 2014 05:59 PM (Bn6aD)

121 But my lib sister and brother will still argue that ObamaCare is "reducing health care costs". Sister lives in Germany and has no clue, brother has a Hillary 2016 bumper sticker already and has no clue, either.

Posted by: wth at November 14, 2014 05:59 PM (wAQA5)

122 >>Jack Straw
I really hope you're right about GOP!

Me too.

Posted by: JackStraw at November 14, 2014 05:59 PM (g1DWB)

123 78 After I've anally raped you, it would be "awkward" to buy you dinner. And if you disagree, you are racist.
Posted by: wooga at November 14, 2014 05:49 PM

How about a gift card to Moe's Corner Tavern?.

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at November 14, 2014 05:59 PM (RMo/a)

124 But it will cover pre existing conditions!

Posted by: Mallamutt, RINO President of the Sheena Easton Fan Club at November 14, 2014 05:59 PM (OWjjx)

125
instead choosing to talk about Kim Kardashian's asshole.
...................
Why, did she bleach it?

Posted by: wth at November 14, 2014 06:00 PM (wAQA5)

126 the people they fucked over that had perfectly good plans at reasonable rates is really unforgivable......
Posted by: phoenixgirl
-------------------

Meh. Just acceptable collateral damage necessitated by the plan. Happened to us too.

Posted by: A Kulak at November 14, 2014 06:00 PM (vPh3W)

127 Why do these guys (Orszag, Gruber) sound like castrati? There ain't a baritone in the bunch.

Posted by: huerfano at November 14, 2014 06:00 PM (bAGA/)

128 >>I think payback is getting warmed up.

Good thing I've been doing yoga.


Posted by: A Bitch named Payback at November 14, 2014 06:00 PM (0xTsz)

129 Orzag was head of the CBO before he joined the White House OMB. I'd bet he had a big hand in gaming Obamacare to get a CBO thumbs up, and worked hand in hand with Gruber in doing so. Earlier in his career he teamed with Nobel winning economist Joseph Stiglitz on paid-for research that concluded that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac could never go broke and posed zero risk to the federal government. Orzag now has a big title with no actual responsibilities at Citigroup.

Posted by: Ignoramus at November 14, 2014 06:00 PM (pLlOH)

130 henceforth anal is known as "getting juiced"

Posted by: n at November 14, 2014 06:01 PM (iBXmZ)

131 henceforth anal is known as "getting juiced"

Posted by: n at November 14, 2014 06:01 PM (iBXmZ)

132 Shoulda rotoscoped in Bush, then when it hit the MSM within microseconds, for days on end, 24/7, then go, Ooops, that was Gruber and Obama.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at November 14, 2014 06:01 PM (IXrOn)

133 Lots of love to Mom, post partum. Depression can sneak in. And good luck on the first two months or so of zombie-like existence. A friend referred to it as baby boot camp.
Posted by: flounder at November

And I will trade that any day compared to 3 teenage daughters under one roof

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at November 14, 2014 06:01 PM (RMo/a)

134 I have the feeling that if Kim Kardashian didn't exist, the media would have had to invent her.

That said, damn, the girl's got a body.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards at November 14, 2014 06:01 PM (EtwGU)

135 I hope there's a kitteh post after this one.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, International Double-Naught Cat Speculator at November 14, 2014 06:02 PM (0HooB)

136 I'm not a fan of punitive taxes on so-called "vices". First off, it's very judgemental to declare a pleasant habit a vice. And secondly, it will only keep these vices within reach of rich people. Why do these tax advocates hate poor minority people?!?

Oh, and OT, but it's pitch black outside by 5:30 now. Can we declare ONT style rules come sundown? I want to be able to romp in a field of expletives, unencumbered by false notions of propriety.

Posted by: All Hail Eris at November 14, 2014 06:02 PM (QBm1P)

137 Ha-ha! Rural hospitals are being shut down due to Obamacare.

Rural America is mostly old, white Republicans so, you know, fuck 'em. Look, move to a city or just die already. Not my fuckin' problem.

Posted by: Jon Gruber at November 14, 2014 06:02 PM (ZPrif)

138 116 Blah, blah, blah.. Kim Kardashian's asshole.

Her husband?

Posted by: rickb223


Given a choice between Kim's husband and the guy who fuked her on tape, I'd have to say without fear of contradiction that the asshole is Obama.

Posted by: dirks strewn at November 14, 2014 06:02 PM (TIgJq)

139 96 its not easy to see in the tape, there is something in it or blocking it the hole time.

Hmm. Not sure whether typo or *extremely* clever pun.

Posted by: Anachronda at November 14, 2014 06:02 PM (v3pYe)

140 I hope there's a kitteh post after this one.



#twoweeks

Posted by: rickb223 at November 14, 2014 06:03 PM (AAJX/)

141 From a year ago:
http://tinyurl.com/p7qgbt8

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at November 14, 2014 06:03 PM (vPh3W)

142 Oh, and OT, but it's pitch black outside by 5:30 now. Can we declare ONT style rules come sundown? I want to be able to romp in a field of expletives, unencumbered by false notions of propriety.
Posted by: All Hail Eris at November

Fuck yeah

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at November 14, 2014 06:03 PM (RMo/a)

143 I would easily bet that 4 of my 6 nearest neighbors will be clueless of this and even if they do hear of it will not care nor grasp the significance of it. And I live in an informed neighborhood.

Posted by: dogfish at November 14, 2014 06:03 PM (1vYi0)

144 >> Kim Kardashian's asshole.

Kanye?

Posted by: moviegique at November 14, 2014 06:04 PM (7zeA4)

145 139 96 its not easy to see in the tape, there is something in it or blocking it the hole time.

Hmm. Not sure whether typo or *extremely* clever pun.
Posted by: Anachronda at November 14, 2014 06:02 PM (v3pYe)




as rife as my comments are with typos I assure you that was intended. I appreciate you noticing.

Posted by: n at November 14, 2014 06:04 PM (iBXmZ)

146 to be fair. Kim Kardashian s butt is big news

Posted by: Bigby's Knuckle Sandwich at November 14, 2014 06:04 PM (Cq0oW)

147 And I will trade that any day compared to 3 teenage daughters under one roof

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at November 14, 2014 06:01 PM (RMo/a)

Eesh. Wife was in one of those. Now she's paying penance for her Dads' prior suffering.

Posted by: flounder at November 14, 2014 06:05 PM (sDapq)

148 I have no idea why TFG had Townhall in Burma. I read it at TWS & there are, thankfully, no pictures.
Protest signs said"Reform is Fake" & "change."

Posted by: Carol at November 14, 2014 06:05 PM (sj3Ax)

149 Everyone with established or new repub leadership in their states need to start schmoozing with them, either personally or by email. Everything, and I do mean everything going on in DC right now will either be embraced or rejected by the individual states.

Start lobbying for rejection.

Posted by: Soona at November 14, 2014 06:05 PM (toS2K)

150 Oh well, we get to babysit our Little G'Dette tonight. I'll probably "force" her to watch the truck race (her word) if I can pry the iPad out of her hands long enough.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, International Double-Naught Cat Speculator at November 14, 2014 06:05 PM (0HooB)

151 Someone should make a Downfall video with Gruber talking about death panels.

Would not be much of a stretch.

Posted by: Mama AJ at November 14, 2014 06:06 PM (0xTsz)

152 I heard whatshernames mom made her make the sextape to get some hiltonstyle fame.

Posted by: n at November 14, 2014 06:06 PM (iBXmZ)

153 I would easily bet that 4 of my 6 nearest neighbors will be clueless of this and even if they do hear of it will not care nor grasp the significance of it. And I live in an informed neighborhood.
Posted by: dogfish
--------------------

Yup. We're doing our job!

Posted by: MFM at November 14, 2014 06:06 PM (vPh3W)

154 134 I have the feeling that if Kim Kardashian didn't exist, the media would have had to invent her.

That said, damn, the girl's got a body.

The best money can buy...

Posted by: helloit's me Donna and I know nuthink! at November 14, 2014 06:06 PM (Bn6aD)

155 141
From a year ago:

http://tinyurl.com/p7qgbt8

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at November 14, 2014 06:03 PM (vPh3W)

And continually said or hinted at today.

Posted by: flounder at November 14, 2014 06:07 PM (sDapq)

156 Daddy did you plug the hole yet?

Posted by: Baby Kardashian at November 14, 2014 06:07 PM (wAQA5)

157 I also heard someone ask how she washes that thing, you could lose a bar of soap in there.


maybe she just slaps an air freshener in?

Posted by: n at November 14, 2014 06:08 PM (iBXmZ)

158 I would easily bet that 4 of my 6 nearest neighbors will be clueless of this and even if they do hear of it will not care nor grasp the significance of it. And I live in an informed neighborhood.
Posted by: dogfish

Yup at least 4 out of 6

Posted by: Nevergiveup at November 14, 2014 06:08 PM (nzKvP)

159 Daddy did you plug the hole yet?

The kid'll probably be born with a dent in its forehead.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, International Double-Naught Cat Speculator at November 14, 2014 06:08 PM (0HooB)

160 Just found this at Commonwealth.org (It's from 2007)


GRUBER: I think that the reason the Massachusetts bill is succeeding--or, hopefully, will succeed--where Clinton health care reform failed is that, essentially, it punts on the issue of cost control. And you know what? I think that's OK, for two reasons. First of all, we know how to cover the uninsured. I can tell you six different ways to cover the uninsured. [But] we don't actually know how to control costs in an effective way yet. The science hasn't caught up on cost control to where it is on coverage. So why hold coverage hostage to the fact that we haven't yet figured out how to control costs?


I'm pretty sure his "science" still hasn't figured it out, yet.

Posted by: Your Friendly Danube River Guide at November 14, 2014 06:08 PM (RJMhd)

161 I have no idea why TFG had Townhall in Burma.
----------------

Hasn't the huevos to have one here.

Posted by: MFM at November 14, 2014 06:08 PM (vPh3W)

162 In order for any of this shit to mean anything, the GOP is going to have to show real spine, the MSFM has to talk about it, and the FSA has to give a shit about it.

There's a whole bunch of leftards who agree with "by any means necessary" and are giving "well played" accolades to these douche nozzles.

So this is kind of a "glass half full" thing except it's half full of clown jizz.

The good news is that we've begun to attack comets with our probes! SMOD retaliation will be swift and righteous.

Posted by: The Hobo's Sex And Candy Stare Decicis at November 14, 2014 06:08 PM (XeGAx)

163 BBL..

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, International Double-Naught Cat Speculator at November 14, 2014 06:09 PM (0HooB)

164 Daddy did you plug the hole yet?
Posted by: Baby Kardashian



I'm giving her all I got! I cannae give 'er anymore Captain!

Posted by: rickb223 at November 14, 2014 06:09 PM (AAJX/)

165 Daddy did you plug the hole yet?



no and I've lost ten guys tryin

Posted by: n at November 14, 2014 06:09 PM (iBXmZ)

166 If the GOP doesn't pick this up and run with it, they are dead as a political force.

Posted by: Null at November 14, 2014 06:09 PM (xjpRj)

167 YFDRG - nice post.

Posted by: MFM at November 14, 2014 06:10 PM (vPh3W)

168 This probably could not have played out better for conservatives.
These Gruber videos have exposed the entire filthy mess just as the
Supreme Court has agreed to hear King v. Burwell. America has never been
angrier about getting this steaming shitpile of legislation dumped on
them (but just wait until next June!), giving political cover to Roberts
and any other weak sisters on the court to pull the trigger and kill
the beast.
While it's impossible to be sure, I'm beginning to think this is gonna be great. Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at November 14, 2014 05:38 PM (8ZskC)


Stop giving me hope! kidding. But since a lot of the changes to healthcare plans were scheduled to occur after the elections so as not to hurt the dems, meaning LIVs will start getting nasty surprises in their mailboxes right about now, that could also turn public sentiment against it. Then the Supremes have an easy out if they let the new case stand. And peace will reign across the land...until we start in on amnesty again. It never ends...

Hey, it's Friday and it's been a long week, let me have my fantasy scenario of expunging Obamacare forever for a little while longer.

Posted by: LizLem at November 14, 2014 06:10 PM (yRwC8)

169 166
If the GOP doesn't pick this up and run with it, they are dead as a political force.


Posted by: Null at November 14, 2014 06:09 PM (xjpRj)

It's dead, Jim.

Posted by: Bones at November 14, 2014 06:10 PM (sDapq)

170 So if you're bored, there's a poll going on over at Time to figure out which word to ban next year. So far, "feminist" is winning in a blowout. Go ad your vote.

http://time.com/3576870/worst-words-poll-2014/

Posted by: JackStraw at November 14, 2014 06:10 PM (g1DWB)

171 109 They need to make up their damned minds -

plans being taxed at 40% rate - or- treated as ordinary income -or- both?


Posted by: Burnt Toast at November 14, 2014 05:56 PM (NaeCR)


If your employer does not provide healthcare, the entire cost is Taxable as you pay it out of your Income.

This is their goal....

By, taxing any healthcare at 40% if above $10.5 K or so for an individual... BUT, the way the tax is written the entire 10.5K is taxed at 40% (paid for by the Insurance company, which means to the employer's cost will be 14.5K).

As EVERY normal insurance premium will eventually hit this level... it means employers will not be able to afford the extra tax... it will be cheaper to throw employees off, and pay the penalty.

So Government will get all health care money now Taxed, AND also a penalty from employers.

Its all about control, and taxes.

And yes, some of us were talking about this when we read the bill, before it was passed.

Posted by: Romeo13 at November 14, 2014 06:11 PM (f0pWu)

172 I want an Auto Sock-Off function, dammit!

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at November 14, 2014 06:11 PM (vPh3W)

173 Oops--title of that Gruber interview I just quoted--


Tough Medicine


( It''s where Gruber also thinks the term--"skin in the game" is a reference to dermatology.)

Posted by: Your Friendly Danube River Guide at November 14, 2014 06:11 PM (RJMhd)

174 Start lobbying for rejection.
Posted by: Soona at November 14, 2014 06:05 PM (toS2K)

Sounds like a good idea!

Oh wait, the GOPe abandoned Virginia because Ken Cuccinnelli had icky conservative tendencies, so I got scum sucking uber liberal McAuliffe as my governor.


But at least the GOPe supported Ed Gillespie for VA Senator so...

Posted by: Hrothgar at November 14, 2014 06:11 PM (vPh3W)

175
I have no idea why TFG had Townhall in Burma.
.....................
Townhall in a mud hut, made him feel right at home.

Posted by: wth at November 14, 2014 06:13 PM (wAQA5)

176 154 134 I have the feeling that if Kim Kardashian didn't exist, the media would have had to invent her.

That said, damn, the girl's got a body.

The best money can buy...

Posted by: helloit's me Donna and I know nuthink! at November 14, 2014 06:06 PM (Bn6aD)


Uh, the media DID invent her...

She is famous, for being famous.

Posted by: Romeo13 at November 14, 2014 06:13 PM (f0pWu)

177 "reality" based community.

Orwell tripping on acid could not imagine this shit.

When I was young and naive I read Solzhenitsyn, and ever since I have understood how evil people can be. I get that, I get the lies, and the stupidity, and the coverups.

What I can never understand is the arrogance. The self important delusion that they are on the right side and we TEA partyers are the ignorant yokels.

Posted by: Gentlemen, this is democracy manifest at November 14, 2014 06:14 PM (LWu6U)

178 ( It''s where Gruber also thinks the term--"skin in the game" is a reference to dermatology.)
Posted by: Your Friendly Danube River
------------------

Not really, right. You *are* kidding?

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at November 14, 2014 06:14 PM (vPh3W)

179 OT/ but I see De Blassio in NY has "signed" a bill saying they will not cooperate with immigration on "deportations"..... Ought to send a new swarm to the Rotten Apple....

Posted by: helloit's me Donna and I know nuthink! at November 14, 2014 06:15 PM (Bn6aD)

180 We've already pretty much reached a consensus that the LIVs won't get any of this. There will be one faction of LIVs that sure would like all of this arguing and fussing to stop; they want Congress and the President to just do what's right for the Country. Obama loves to play to this faction (and may indeed be a member of it) when he talks about just wanting Republicans to bring him some good ideas.

There's another faction of LIVs who pose as not-LIVs. They watch Jon Stewart to keep up on current events. So there will be a cutesy video about this, then splice in an indignant comment by a GOP politician that the audience has been conditioned to laugh at--a Sarah Palin. Then cut back to Jon Stewart making a funny face. Pure comedy gold, and now the LIV poser knows that this is a phony scandal.

We're doomed.

Posted by: Furious George at November 14, 2014 06:15 PM (UlJ3l)

181 b) rather than inserting themselves into the story and giving the Dems an excuse that this is all divisive politics, they're exercising a bit of self-restraint and letting this play out. I'd call it smart politics.
Posted by: pep at November 14, 2014 05:40 PM (4nR9/)

I call that comedy gold

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at November 14, 2014 06:16 PM (RMo/a)

182 That's a damn interesting piece of info right there...undermining the US and deceiving the citizens...what should we do about it???
NOTHING..."which bar tonight, John?"..."You pick it Mitch"

Posted by: getonwidit at November 14, 2014 06:16 PM (TiTon)

183 Sounds like a good idea! Oh wait, the GOPe abandoned Virginia because Ken Cuccinnelli had icky conservative tendencies, so I got scum sucking uber liberal McAuliffe as my governor. But at least the GOPe supported Ed Gillespie for VA Senator so...
Posted by: Hrothgar at November 14, 2014 06:11 PM (vPh3W)


-----------------------------------------------


My give a fuck meter for these states that voted for dem leadership (with or without RNC help) is at 0 for these states. Let them be ruled.

Posted by: Soona at November 14, 2014 06:16 PM (toS2K)

184 >>> In this essay, Dr. Jonathan Gruber reviews the rationales for
and experience with sin taxes for cigarettes and alcoholic beverages and
offers his insights on using sin taxes to combat obesity.

Second look at prohibition? Prohibition with a smiley face? Liberals just can't help themselves can they?

And of course if you called making them pay for their own birth control or abortions a sin tax they would scream bloody murder.

Posted by: LizLem at November 14, 2014 06:17 PM (yRwC8)

185 OT/ but I see De Blassio in NY has "signed"
a bill saying they will not cooperate with
immigration on "deportations"..... Ought to send
a new swarm to the Rotten Apple....




with diseases

Posted by: rickb223 at November 14, 2014 06:17 PM (AAJX/)

186 --that consumers have to "have more skin in the game."
GRUBER: Yeah, I never understood that one. Is that a dermatologist reference?

Posted by: Your Friendly Danube River Guide at November 14, 2014 06:17 PM (RJMhd)

187
Here is a piece from Breitbart that shows how connected the democrats were to Gruber. The Orzag connection is there too

link in nic

Posted by: The Jackhole at November 14, 2014 06:18 PM (6/J77)

188 I see De Blassio in NY has "signed" a bill saying they will not cooperate with immigration on "deportations"..... Ought to send a new swarm to the Rotten Apple....
Posted by: helloit's me Donna and I know nuthink! at November 14, 2014 06:15 PM (Bn6aD)

How could you tell?

Posted by: Nevergiveup at November 14, 2014 06:18 PM (nzKvP)

189
I have no idea why TFG had Townhall in Burma.
...................
He's after the T'rung Pygmy vote.

Posted by: wth at November 14, 2014 06:18 PM (wAQA5)

Posted by: Mitt Romney at November 14, 2014 06:19 PM (Qgr71)

191 I am grateful one thing about the Roberts flip -- we know his true colors, and I the repubs ever get another chance at a nomination, it better not be another cypher or Washingtonian. It better be someone who wants to tear up precedent back to Wickard v. Filburn and start over.

Posted by: Gentlemen, this is democracy manifest at November 14, 2014 06:19 PM (LWu6U)

192 178 ( It''s where Gruber also thinks the term--"skin in the game" is a reference to dermatology.)
Posted by: Your Friendly Danube River
------------------

Not really, right. You *are* kidding?
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at November 14, 2014 06:14 PM (vPh3W)


******

Nope.

I just dropped the exact quote.

Also the other stuff from that article about the science not being able to figure out how to control the costs of universal coverage--I think that is huge.

Seems to be saying that the lesson learned as to why Hillary's plan didn't work is that you should just punt on that.

I'm pretty sure that is what they did with ObamaCare.

Posted by: Your Friendly Danube River Guide at November 14, 2014 06:19 PM (RJMhd)

193 188 I see De Blassio in NY has "signed" a bill saying they will not cooperate with immigration on "deportations"..... Ought to send a new swarm to the Rotten Apple....
Posted by: helloit's me Donna and I know nuthink! at November 14, 2014 06:15 PM (Bn6aD)

How could you tell?

You've got a point....

Posted by: helloit's me Donna and I know nuthink! at November 14, 2014 06:19 PM (Bn6aD)

194 Posted by: getonwidit at November 14, 2014 06:16 PM (TiTon)

Mitch McTurtell: "Well, John, to be perfectly clear, this doesn't affect our Congressional salaries, perks, privileges or immunity to common law, so I'll be buying tonight! Jameson's right?"

Posted by: Hrothgar at November 14, 2014 06:20 PM (vPh3W)

195 GRUBER: Yeah, I never understood that one. Is that a dermatologist reference?
Posted by: Your Friendly Danube River
----------------------


Not that Harvard types are out of touch with the real world...

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at November 14, 2014 06:20 PM (vPh3W)

196 Oooh, up on Drudge, LA mayor's water usage 5X higher than that of average resident. For me but not for thee...no water for regular farmers, but plenty for the pot farms and the city officials. Sounds about right.

Posted by: LizLem at November 14, 2014 06:20 PM (yRwC8)

197 I have no idea why TFG had Townhall in Burma.


---------------------------------------


Handing out free green cards.

Posted by: Soona at November 14, 2014 06:20 PM (toS2K)

198 After a decade in which the number of homeless people on New York Citys streets had fallen by almost 25 percent, this year has seen an uptick in their number

Gee I wonder why?

Posted by: Nevergiveup at November 14, 2014 06:21 PM (nzKvP)

199 The only consistently good thing about my horrible job is the health insurance. My current health insurance is really good.

And these bastards are going to screw it up.

Posted by: Kensington (@NYKensington) at November 14, 2014 06:21 PM (7Kbxu)

200 We need a purge of every Dem that voted for this POS. R's should start funding challengers as their top priority.

I would love if the legacy of the law was that it got all who voted for it shitcanned. Hell, they should support D challengers in districts where a R can not win just to purge the fuckers.

Posted by: Gentlemen, this is democracy manifest at November 14, 2014 06:21 PM (LWu6U)

201 More Gruber:

[i]But I think cost control is something we just don't know how to do yet.


Pretty damn sure he didn't discover the science of how to do that--since the interview--either---hence his admonition to people during his speeches to NOT read the law.

Posted by: Your Friendly Danube River Guide at November 14, 2014 06:22 PM (RJMhd)

202 LA mayor's water usage 5X higher than that of average resident. For me but not for thee...no water for regular farmers, but plenty for the pot farms and the city officials. Sounds about right.
Posted by: LizLem
-----------------------

Have you checked Al Gore's electricity bill?

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at November 14, 2014 06:22 PM (vPh3W)

203
I have no idea why TFG had Townhall in Burma.
.........................
They speak fluent Austrian.

Posted by: wth at November 14, 2014 06:22 PM (wAQA5)

204 198 After a decade in which the number of homeless people on New York Citys streets had fallen by almost 25 percent, this year has seen an uptick in their number
Gee I wonder why?
Posted by: Nevergiveup

_____________________

Because de Blasio is a hater.

Posted by: Furious George at November 14, 2014 06:22 PM (UlJ3l)

205 Gruber is an economist and doesn't understand how to control costs? More importantly doesn't think costs are important?

An economist?

Posted by: Marvin the Mechanical at November 14, 2014 06:22 PM (1kSqa)

206 Posted by: LizLem at November 14, 2014 06:17 PM (yRwC

Seriously, Prohibition will work if the right people are in charge of it!

Posted by: Hrothgar at November 14, 2014 06:22 PM (vPh3W)

207 199 The only consistently good thing about my horrible job is the health insurance. My current health insurance is really good.

And these bastards are going to screw it up.
Posted by: Kensington (@NYKensington) at November 14, 2014 06:21 PM (7Kbxu)

just had to re-up and the company documents called out the "Cadillac Plan" tax being the reason our payments are going up...

Posted by: MikeH at November 14, 2014 06:23 PM (4OZqu)

208 199 The only consistently good thing about my horrible job is the health insurance. My current health insurance is really good.

And these bastards are going to screw it up.

I have Medicare....Not the best I guess, but I spent a week in the Hospital in Sept. with severe kidney infection..... The bill? $100,200 dollars..... My share 1200 dollars....

Posted by: helloit's me Donna and I know nuthink! at November 14, 2014 06:23 PM (Bn6aD)

209 So this shitwipe MIT retard is someone that the left thinks is worth $4m. Sounds about right judging by how they much kim k earns.

Posted by: Gentlemen, this is democracy manifest at November 14, 2014 06:24 PM (LWu6U)

210 I have Medicare....Not the best I guess, but I spent
a week in the Hospital in Sept. with severe kidney infection..... The
bill? $100,200 dollars..... My share 1200 dollars....

Posted by: helloit's me Donna and I know nuthink! at November 14, 2014 06:23 PM (Bn6aD)

The actual cost? $10,200.

Posted by: Bones at November 14, 2014 06:24 PM (sDapq)

211 An economist?
Posted by: Marvin the Mechanical at November 14, 2014 06:22 PM (1kSqa)

A political economist!

Posted by: Hrothgar at November 14, 2014 06:24 PM (vPh3W)

212 Wow--


CW: Tw--tier health coverage sounds elitist. It sounds like the wealthy get a much better plan.


There you have it.

Hollywood, big time Dem donors and Senate staffers will get to keep their plans--the middle class proletariat will not.

Posted by: Your Friendly Danube River Guide at November 14, 2014 06:24 PM (RJMhd)

213 The actual cost? $10,200.

Exactly. I was shocked...$ 18,000 for a cat scan? I was speechless...

Posted by: helloit's me Donna and I know nuthink! at November 14, 2014 06:25 PM (Bn6aD)

214 @179

Don't know where they are going to house all of the people they are going to attract when the average rent for a decent apartment is $1800

Posted by: Kreplach at November 14, 2014 06:25 PM (bKSy7)

215 Next up we'll find out the medical device tax is paid mostly through increased device costs passed on to the consumer. The consumer is medicare. So it raises no net revenue. It is a tax ultimately paid by medicare to Obamacare to create fake CBO score.

Posted by: Cdiesel at November 14, 2014 06:25 PM (GvCz1)

216 ust had to re-up and the company documents called out the "Cadillac Plan" tax being the reason our payments are going up...
Posted by: MikeH at November 14, 2014 06:23 PM (4OZqu)

Good thing you didn't need to know that in October!

Posted by: Hrothgar at November 14, 2014 06:26 PM (vPh3W)

217 --that consumers have to "have more skin in the game."
GRUBER: Yeah, I never understood that one. Is that a dermatologist reference?



Never understood it because he never had any in the game.

Posted by: rickb223 at November 14, 2014 06:26 PM (AAJX/)

218 nood animals

Posted by: flounder at November 14, 2014 06:26 PM (sDapq)

219
I have no idea why TFG had Townhall in Burma.
...................
Historic trade deal. Burma is the world's second largest producer of opium.

Posted by: wth at November 14, 2014 06:26 PM (wAQA5)

220 Their plan was to make the people who were paying pay more (by raising rates, deductables, and copays), and get less (by limiting choices and networks, eliminating 'excess' benefits), so there's a big surplus of money to cover 'the uninsured.'

So there's no individual savings for people who already had insurance. No, more than that, it will cost more, a lot more, and they'll get less. So where's the benefit?

Well, wealth gets shifted, see? Obama can buy off more po' folks with your money. You get the shaft, you get less, you get punished, and social justice, assholes.

Posted by: --- at November 14, 2014 06:27 PM (MMC8r)

221 Is there anything that we window licking mouth breathing fever swamp dwelling conspiracy theorists got wrong about this?

Posted by: alexthechick - Come to us SMOD at November 14, 2014 06:27 PM (IrByp)

222 Here's a link to the article


http://tinyurl.com/qd3yosl

It's from 2007 but again I really doubt he has discovered the science of controlling the costs and that they found the answer again was to "punt" on the issue.


Why else brag about pulling a fast one on the CBo--and also telling people at his speeches not to read the bill.


Or--Nancy Pelosi's truth out--

"You have to pass it to know what is in it."

Posted by: Your Friendly Danube River Guide at November 14, 2014 06:27 PM (RJMhd)

223 Still remember reading the article by Gutfeld, I think at Breitbart, where he said the impossible had happened and NYC had a murder free week. Was a thank you letter to Guliani for shaping up the city to the point where that was possible.

DeBlasio is going to screw up NYC, and then they are going to have to
try to furiously retcon history that hey it was always this bad, we
always had these many murders and these many bums and you stupid
conservatives are the reason this city is so screwed up! But the normal
people will remember, and hopefully vote in another conservative mayor. But this time, no nanny staters, for the love of!

Posted by: LizLem at November 14, 2014 06:27 PM (yRwC8)

224 Coming soon, to a PC near you, Obamanet!
If you like your ISP, you can keep your ISP.
Prices will go down!

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at November 14, 2014 06:27 PM (vPh3W)

225 201 More Gruber:

But I think cost control is something we just don't know how to do yet.


Pretty damn sure he didn't discover the science of how to do that--since the interview--either---hence his admonition to people during his speeches to NOT read the law.

Posted by: Your Friendly Danube River Guide at November 14, 2014 06:22 PM (RJMhd)


so they have elevated Economics, to a Science?

Uh.... no...

Because if Economics WAS a science, ie, that predictable, verifiable, and could be reproduced... then there would be NO reason why our economy SUCKS..

Whey the average family makes LESS... why there is LESS % of Americans working.... why part time employment is rising...

And why the corporations, and those who own them get richer... while we seem to get poorer...

Or maybe it IS a science.. and that is what they MEANT to do?

Posted by: Romeo13 at November 14, 2014 06:28 PM (f0pWu)

226 217 --that consumers have to "have more skin in the game."
GRUBER: Yeah, I never understood that one. Is that a dermatologist reference?



Never understood it because he never had any in the game.
Posted by: rickb223 at November 14, 2014 06:26 PM (AAJX/)

*******

Boom!


And damn it new thread I guess.

Posted by: Your Friendly Danube River Guide at November 14, 2014 06:28 PM (RJMhd)

227 Damn....

/reports to the barrel...

Posted by: Romeo13 at November 14, 2014 06:29 PM (f0pWu)

228 What I can never understand is the arrogance. The self important delusion that they are on the right side and we TEA partyers are the ignorant yokels.

It's all about control, prole.

If I didn't have my nose stuck up in the air, as if I smelled some vile odor coming from your direction, I'd lose control to you.

Gamesmanship 101.

Posted by: The Precedent at November 14, 2014 06:29 PM (zxQ4h)

229 Coming soon, to a PC near you, Obamanet!
If you like your ISP, you can keep your ISP.*
Prices will go down!**
Posted by: Mike Hammer,

*Unless you have what we deem to be a 'Junk ISP'
** Subject to *

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at November 14, 2014 06:29 PM (vPh3W)

230
And the MSM is embargoing this, instead choosing to talk about Kim Kardashian's asshole.








Hey!

Posted by: Kanye West at November 14, 2014 06:29 PM (TIIx5)

231 Dr Gruber?

Isn't that Kim Kardashian's plastic surgeon or something?

Posted by: LIV at November 14, 2014 06:30 PM (LWu6U)

232 What I can never understand is the arrogance. The self important delusion that they are on the right side and we TEA partyers are the ignorant yokels.
--------

Heh.

Posted by: Saul Alinsky at November 14, 2014 06:30 PM (vPh3W)

233 Ugh one more quote form the interview with Gruber--


CW: The other background question is whether we've pretty much gotten close to the ceiling in tax burden [in the U.S.], especially on middle-class families.

GRUBER: I think that the tax burden's actually sort of historically low. I'm talking total federal tax burden. Largely, that's because we've cut taxes a ton on the rich. It's probably pretty constant in the middle I don't think that's the issue [...]


Posted by: Your Friendly Danube River Guide at November 14, 2014 06:32 PM (RJMhd)

234 So, are we yet to the mass shunning of any person associated in any way with the Democratic Party?

"Are you now, or have you ever been, a Democrat? If yes, grovel, repent, and beg forgiveness, or else FOAD, MF'er."

They Will Not Be Forgiven.

Posted by: filbert at November 14, 2014 06:33 PM (h6Mpm)

235 Best quote ever or best quote ever?

"A senior aide to a House Republican told MailOnline on Friday that 'Avoiding the "I" word' is a case of 'better the devil you know than the devil you don't.'
'Only in this case, we're pretty sure we know both devils. And Biden - he's two floppy shoes short of a complete clown outfit. Let's be honest: He's Obama's insurance policy.'"


Posted by: Lauren at November 14, 2014 06:33 PM (BPMYx)

236 'Only in this case, we're pretty sure we know both devils. And Biden - he's two floppy shoes short of a complete clown outfit. Let's be honest: He's Obama's insurance policy.'"

Mmm. Paste. Crayons. It's been a wonderful day in my neighborhood.

Posted by: Joe Biden, Presidential Insurance Policy at November 14, 2014 06:37 PM (zxQ4h)

237 Just a thought . . .

Biden can be impeached, too. And probably should be.

Frankly, I'd impeach that clown and leave Obama right where he is, to finish imploding.

Of course, I'd also make sure Obama's (undoubtedly increasingly bizarre) executive orders aren't funded, but then I'm actually out here, outside the Beltway, and hence am fully rational.

I've also started drinking, which never hurts on a Friday night.

Posted by: filbert at November 14, 2014 06:39 PM (h6Mpm)

238 Romeo13


Heh--I can still read you.

I was taught by a nationally syndicated economist--he told me--economics is an art form (basically because it tries to "predict" human behavior--and because it cannot possibly control for all variables) and that anyone who tells you it is a pure science is...wrong.

Posted by: Your Friendly Danube River Guide at November 14, 2014 06:39 PM (RJMhd)

239 Liberalism is like the weeds that overtake and abandoned lot. The seeds come from everywhere and take hold wherever the is a lack of diligence and constant effort to fight them back.

We keep looking at the Left as the opposition to the Right, but that is wrong. The Left is the products of decay.

Any society that elects stublefuck to POTUS, that raises Kim Kardashians Ass to millionaire celebrity status, that tolerates these SJW PC idiots,.. well that is a society that is in terminal decay.

and sock off.

Posted by: Gentlemen, this is democracy manifest at November 14, 2014 06:40 PM (LWu6U)

240 new thread

Posted by: Gentlemen, this is democracy manifest at November 14, 2014 06:41 PM (LWu6U)

241 Drudge has not been covering this Gruber kerfuffel. What's up with that?

Posted by: IrishEi at November 14, 2014 06:47 PM (LzpIM)

242 AP finally has a begrudging article up acknowledging the first gruber video, to report on the angry extremist activists taking umbrage with it. In it, AP offers such gems as "the law republicans DERIDE as obamacare", poor lil obama, and they also parrot the leftwing blogs by saying gruber was just a lil old number crunchy who didn't really do anything important with the law even though we paid him 400k to be unimportant. They also caveat that there was no deception because like, the bipartisan CBO scoring the bill at the time... which ignores the fact that that's exactly what gruber was hired to deceive. Although even CBO said at the time it was junk and the law was scripted to simply game their native scoring model

Posted by: firsttimemoron at November 14, 2014 06:54 PM (PVPWy)

243 economics is a social science--like poli sci and sociology


Dick Armey was an econ professor at North Texas State, and got elected to the House from the district created north of Dallas after the 1980 Census.


He never pretended that economics was anything other than educated guessing

Posted by: what do they call a quarter pounder in France? at November 14, 2014 07:34 PM (8CdUx)

244 Well, if they start taxing my insurance, I won't be able to afford any. Period. I won't be able to afford the catastrophic obamacare insurance, either. The deductibles are so high, the insurance doesn't pay on anything unless you have a major surgery or something, and even then, you are still stuck with a bill that is several thousands of dollars. Honestly, if the costs of medical care actually do go down it will be because people just stop going to the doctor. If i had to pay for every office visit to the doc, I just would stop going. I can't afford to pay a hundred bucks for each visit. I know some people can, but I think I speak for most when I say that I can't. Like me, a lot of people just wouldn't go unless we were deathly ill.

...and what are the Republicans going to do about all of this? Oh, they'll "fix it." They won't do A N Y T H I N G but reinforce this nightmarish shit sandwich of a bill that WE are all going to be STUCK with. All the while congress, the largest millionares club on the planet, will get amazing healthcare for life paid for by you and I.

Thanks a lot, you jerks.

Posted by: Mistress Overdone at November 14, 2014 07:43 PM (2/oBD)

245 So basically a compensation package cut.
Oh don't worry, you'll hardly feel it, it's just a little blood every year. For the children. The children who won't sign up for Obamacare.

Posted by: ScovilleUnit going downhill at November 14, 2014 07:46 PM (0adl+)

246 I meant paid for by you and me, not "I."

Posted by: Mistress Overdone at November 14, 2014 07:47 PM (2/oBD)

247 Consent of the governed doesn't matter when you are governing racist rednecks from Jesusland.

Posted by: Mary Cloggenstein from Brattleboro, VT at November 14, 2014 07:56 PM (giapq)

248 It's okay to lie if it's about sex or it's convenient.

Posted by: East Bay Jay at November 14, 2014 08:01 PM (7v8o1)

249 Mistress Overdone at 7:43 - I hear you but nobody in DC is. The GOPe is acting like adding $200 to the monthly budget is a rounding error. But the media will say 'why do you hate people having insurance' and they'll fold. They're spineless - we have a corner but there's nobody in it.

Posted by: East Bay Jay at November 14, 2014 08:12 PM (7v8o1)

250 "the law republicans DERIDE as obamacare"


I don't deride it as "Obamacare." I call it "Obolacare."

Posted by: Jay Guevara at November 14, 2014 08:16 PM (oKE6c)

251 It is a tribute to McCain that he didn't expect the Democrats to attack his plan viciously. Such disregard of reality has always been his hallmark.

Posted by: Obama the holy one at November 15, 2014 06:54 PM (sGUwu)

252 "And the MSM is embargoing this, instead choosing to talk about Kim Kardashian's asshole."

What? I apparently missed this entirely. What has Kanye West been up to now?

Posted by: RonF at November 17, 2014 03:10 PM (l8nW6)

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