Oh Boy: In Jon Gruber's Newest (Sixth) Video, He Explains How Obama and Democrats Conspired to Get Rid of Tax Exemptions for All Insurance Plans Without Anyone Noticing

The guy who's been finding these said that the worst was yet to come. I've had my eyes out.

This may be it.

Just to set the table here: It is widely, almost universally, acknowledged that not taxing insurance policies is a bad idea that leads to distortions and inefficiencies (and incidentally is a case of the government picking "winners and losers," and dictating what form employee payments should take).

So as a general matter, I think we'd probably like to get rid of the tax exempt status for health care benefits.

Note that McCain proposed doing just that in the 2008 election. His idea was that we would get rid of this exemption and instead give people an additional tax credit valued at the average cost of health insurance. Thus, people would be held harmless by the change, but we'd get rid of this government-made distortion in how employers pay their employees.

Barack Obama, get this, demagogued that plan and accused McCain of wanting to increase taxes on people.

And meanwhile, he schemed to achieve the same thing, except without that part about giving people an additional tax credit which would offset increased taxes, and, get this, without telling people he was getting rid of the tax exemption.

Once again -- subverting democracy by completely destroying the concept of Consent of the Governed.

What Gruber says Obamacare was meant to do is this: In its first few years, it will impose a massive -- 40% -- tax on "Cadillac plans," thus taxing them at a high rate. Thus getting rid of the exemption for such plans.

Initially, only 8% of plans would be so affected.

But here's the thing: The level at which you will be socked with this 40% tax will only go up, year by year, based upon the slow-moving CPI, rather than the fast-moving rate of medical inflation, which is of course what the yearly adjustment really ought to be pegged to, given that this is a medical expense, and not an ordinary consumer expense.

Net result? As the years pass, more and more health insurance plans will be wacked by the 40% tax, because it will not be adjusted by much each year; and ultimately, virtually all plans will be subject to it.

Thus, the health care plan tax exemption will be repealed. Not in the way McCain proposed -- which included Fair Warning to the voter, as well as a tax-credit offset which would hold taxpayers harmless in the change.

No -- the health care plan tax exemption will be repealed by, get this, stealth and trickery.

And that's coming. The law is already written. Every year, the "Cadillac plan" level will get lower and lower (well, it will go slowly upwards, but the costs of medical treatment will go up faster than it does), and more and more plans -- ordinary, run-of-the-mill plans -- will be deemed "Cadillac plans" and thus taxed at a 40% rate.

And employers will, naturally, stop offering them. They don't want to pay a 40% rate.

And thus, without the public ever agreeing to it, private medical insurance is effectively ended in the United States.

And this was all part of the plan.

Kept secret from you.

"It turns out politically it's really hard to get rid of," Gruber said. "And the only way we could get rid of it was first by mislabeling it, calling it a tax on insurance plans rather than a tax on people when we all know it's a tax on people who hold those insurance plans."

(The White House press secretary said at a press briefing in 2010: "I would disagree with your notion that it is a tax on an individual since the proposal is written as a tax on an insurance company that offers a plan.")

The second way was have the tax kick in "late, starting in 2018. But by starting it late, we were able to tie the cap for Cadillac Tax to CPI, not medical inflation," Gruber said. CPI is the consumer price index, which is lower than medical inflation.
Gruber explains that by drafting the bill this way, they were able to pass something that would initially only impact some employer plans though it would eventually hit almost every employer plan. And by that time, those who object to the tax will be obligated to figure out how to come up with the money that repealing the tax will take from the treasury, or risk significantly adding to the national debt.

"What that means is the tax that starts out hitting only 8% of the insurance plans essentially amounts over the next 20 years essentially getting rid of the exclusion for employer sponsored plans," Gruber said. "This was the only political way we were ever going to take on one of the worst public policies in America."

Unions and employers who object in 2018, he noted, "at that point if they want to get rid of it they're going to have to fill a trillion dollar hole in the deficit...It's on the books now."

Incidentally, this will also be a backdoor tax hike on the middle class, even if employers stop providing insurance. Instead, employers will cancel insurance and pay them somewhat increased wages -- but those wages will be taxed, which their health plan benefits had not been.

Armageddon.

Armageddon.

It's time to repeal this monstrosity cooked up by socialist serial liars.

Huge Update: Where was Barack?

Why, leading the discussions on how to kill the health care plan tax exemption, of course!

Posted by: Ace at 03:41 PM




Comments

(Jump to bottom of page)

1 First.

Posted by: EC at November 14, 2014 03:43 PM (GQ8sn)

2 I take it you're feeling better, sahib. God news.

Posted by: Bob's House of Flannel Shirts and Wallet Chains at November 14, 2014 03:43 PM (vgIRn)

3 If you like your plan, you can keep your plan.

Posted by: Great Moments in Presidential Oratory at November 14, 2014 03:43 PM (Tj+s6)

4 I like how all this is slowly trickling out. I only wish it could have happened years ago, before a certain election.

Posted by: EC at November 14, 2014 03:43 PM (GQ8sn)

5 Look at that content! I'm betting that the migraine/flu/ebola episode was just a ruse before unleashing the review for Interstellar.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at November 14, 2014 03:44 PM (xSCb6)

6 Just something quick:

While I agree that not taxing plans is a crazy distortion brought on by FDR and his shit.

Taxing plans creates another problem: it would allow your employer to saddle you with a tax burden over which you have no control. This is also bad.
If the taxes fall entirely on the employee, the employer has no benefit to offering a variety of plans (at a variety of costs.)
Indeed, the paperwork would be simpler to just offer one plan (and while it might be low cost by chance that really just depends on how much coverage the people making the decision want, and they may be less sensitive to a tax than say...a janitor.)

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) And father to be in 2 months! at November 14, 2014 03:45 PM (HDwDg)

7 Christian Healthcare Ministries, you guys.

Posted by: AMDG at November 14, 2014 03:45 PM (eFytx)

8 While I agree we should keep piling on none of this is a secret, Ogabe did this when the rates weren't pegged to inflation....

just like his idol Tedster Kennedy's fucking AMT....

"bracket creep"....

Donks "punish the rich" and define rich down...

Posted by: Sven S Blade a.k.a. El Assassin@sven10077 at November 14, 2014 03:45 PM (/4AZU)

9 "Barack Obama, get this, demagogued that plan and accused McCain of wanting to increase taxes on people."

Well he also demagogued HRC's plan for an individual mandate. Methinks he just basically lied.

Posted by: SH at November 14, 2014 03:46 PM (gmeXX)

10 How dare those companies offer employees compensation we can't tax? This must end. No, don't tell them we are ending it. Those idiots actually like those healthcare plans. Tell them if they like it, they can keep it. This pisses me off to no end!

Posted by: no good deed at November 14, 2014 03:46 PM (w3a0Z)

11 Gruber! You magnificent bastard.

Posted by: Muad'dib - Bodice Repair Man at November 14, 2014 03:47 PM (sjdRT)

12 Taxing plans creates another problem: it would allow your employer to saddle you with a tax burden over which you have no control.

----

??? You don't have to accept the benefits.

Posted by: SH at November 14, 2014 03:47 PM (gmeXX)

13 9 Posted by: SH at November 14, 2014 03:46 PM (gmeXX)

Great fun was had in '07-'08 pointing out the media essentially allowed Ogabe to campaign to the left AND right of Hillary and McCain....

Posted by: Sven S Blade a.k.a. El Assassin@sven10077 at November 14, 2014 03:47 PM (/4AZU)

14 11 Posted by: SH at November 14, 2014 03:47 PM (gmeXX)

You either accept your employer plan or you buy subpar Federal insurance...

not a lot of wiggle room there.

Posted by: Sven S Blade a.k.a. El Assassin@sven10077 at November 14, 2014 03:48 PM (/4AZU)

15 Libs will simply cluck their tongues, roll their eyes and say

"we only did this stupid charade because you wouldn't let us have single payer like every other non-neanderthal country in the world. So NOW will you let us have single payer ??"

Posted by: McCool at November 14, 2014 03:48 PM (nCSwS)

16 *Good*

Posted by: Bob's House of Flannel Shirts and Wallet Chains at November 14, 2014 03:48 PM (vgIRn)

17 Kept secret from you.


By a complicit media. Complicit by their willful ignorance. Trusting their betters.

The very stupid people Gruber was referring to.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at November 14, 2014 03:48 PM (xSCb6)

18 I'm done. I'm going full Godwin and am calling this tool Goebbelsgruber from now on, or until I hear something wittier.

Anyway, it's a bit rich listening to Obama lecture Burma on "democracy" when Obama himself is so utterly cynical. To Barky and Goebbelsgruber, democracy is something to be subverted and exploited to get people like Barky in - Soro charge. Obama doesn't want democracy in Burma; he wants a client state for his true masters - Soros etc.

Posted by: boulder terlit hobo at November 14, 2014 03:48 PM (FdlTq)

19 This is a really good video that exposes the corruption of the ProgMedia, the Big Media bought by Obama.

Melissa Francis worked for CNBC. Criticized Obamacare -- not the politics, just the math, said it didn't add up -- CNBC execs called her on the carpet, complained she was "disrespecting" Obama, demanded she stop.

Gasparino relays an even worse story of GE CEO Jeff Immelt calling a meeting with all the top anchors and execs to discuss whether they were "being fair" to Obama.

Charles Gasparino @CGasparino 40m
.@MelissaAFrancis: I was silenced by CNBC and i add my 2 cents @foxbusiness... http://fb.me/3l9g7dTHr

Posted by: Costanza Defense at November 14, 2014 03:48 PM (ZPrif)

20
And the only way we could get rid of it was first by mislabeling it.

It's striking how often Gruber can be taken out of context to make it sound like he's orchestrated the biggest lies since Goebbels.


*happy dances for flaming skull*

Posted by: Bandersnatch at November 14, 2014 03:48 PM (JtwS4)

21 Unions hardest hit, to my great enjoyment.

Posted by: toby928(C) at November 14, 2014 03:48 PM (evdj2)

22 The gift that keeps giving.

Posted by: Wendy at November 14, 2014 03:49 PM (KydDZ)

23 Ahem. RTFBYMFMF.

So. Basically every single thing the fever swamp conspiracy freaks on the Right said about ACA is being confirmed by the guy who wrote it.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Now with extra taunting. at November 14, 2014 03:49 PM (mf5HN)

24 Well he also demagogued HRC's plan for an individual mandate. Methinks he just basically lied.

Posted by: SH at November 14, 2014 03:46 PM (gmeXX)



That's right.


He pissed on everyone else's plan and then turned around and adopted them.


Kinda like how he said he hated all the money in politics, but then declined public funding when his $1 billion in campaign contributions flowed in.

Posted by: EC at November 14, 2014 03:49 PM (GQ8sn)

25 >>>2 I take it you're feeling better, sahib. God news.

not really better, though it's not as bad as it was on Wednesday.

But this is a huge story-- possibly the biggest story on Obamacare, ever -- so I can manage to write a few words.

Posted by: ace at November 14, 2014 03:49 PM (/FnUH)

26 SKULL!!!!!!!

Posted by: EC at November 14, 2014 03:49 PM (GQ8sn)

27 some people REALLY need their asses kicked

Posted by: A dude in MI at November 14, 2014 03:49 PM (o2Jt2)

28
That is one BIG-HEADED flaming skull.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 14, 2014 03:49 PM (CMkNk)

29 Ace-

You should read those links I sent you. They are from left wing sites and writers and they were talking about the deceptive practices that Gruber and the White House were using to sell Obamacare back in 2010. It was all planned and now the plan is unraveling.

And it wasn't $400k. Gruber was given, often in no-bid contracts, almost $800K from various federal agencies in 2009.

Posted by: JackStraw at November 14, 2014 03:49 PM (g1DWB)

30 Corgis called.

Posted by: rickb223 at November 14, 2014 03:49 PM (AAJX/)

31
So what is going to be done about this?? Nothing

Posted by: BIG ALFREDO at November 14, 2014 03:49 PM (iWo0u)

32 Just to set the table here: It is widely, almost universally, acknowledged that not taxing insurance policies is a bad idea that leads to distortions and inefficiencies (and incidentally is a case of the government picking "winners and losers," and dictating what form employee payments should take).


Excuse me... but the entire Tax code is ALL about picking winners and losers.

Its just that THIS particular one, helps those in the middle to upper classes pay less tax... instead of their 'Fair share' which is MORE than those who leach off the system.

You 'Universally Acknowledged' is like Man Made Global Warming's 'consensus'....

Posted by: Romeo13 at November 14, 2014 03:50 PM (f0pWu)

33
To hell with impeachment. Pitchforks and torches.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 14, 2014 03:50 PM (CMkNk)

34 I'm SHOCKED at all of this. SHOCKED.

Posted by: Anonymous Asswipe at November 14, 2014 03:50 PM (ne2fm)

35 I love you, Ace. You're the man.

Now we bring the fight to those lying bastards.

Posted by: nraendowment at November 14, 2014 03:50 PM (Msv+6)

36 It is widely, almost universally, acknowledged that not taxing insurance policies is a bad idea that leads to distortions and inefficiencies (and incidentally is a case of the government picking "winners and losers," and dictating what form employee payments should take).

Getting the government involved distorts markets, man. Their solution is more of the problem.

Posted by: --- at November 14, 2014 03:50 PM (MMC8r)

37 23 Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Now with extra taunting. at November 14, 2014 03:49 PM (mf5HN)

It wasn't rocket surgery it was just paying attention to what they sent to CBO at the time.

This was always about control and taxes.

Posted by: Sven S Blade a.k.a. El Assassin@sven10077 at November 14, 2014 03:50 PM (/4AZU)

38 Posted by: SH at November 14, 2014 03:47 PM (gmeXX

Well I guess in theory you don't have to.

Although my previous place of employment makes it virtually impossible to opt out of. I have to show proof of other insurance (IIRC at every open enrollment.)

I'm not sure how but they managed to make "having insurance" a requirement to work there.

And by totally fucking up the private market, ObamaCare hasn't really helped find outside insurance.

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) And father to be in 2 months! at November 14, 2014 03:50 PM (HDwDg)

39 Conservatives need to drop out of the insurance scheme. Join a health share.

Most have some sort of religious element that I know disqualifies some of the horde, but Liberty Health Share does not.

Here are the ones I know of. (Full disclosure: We use Christian Healthcare Ministries and are very happy. )

Liberty Health Share
Christian Healthcare Minsitries
Samaritan Ministries
MediShare

Posted by: Lauren at November 14, 2014 03:51 PM (BPMYx)

40 The guy who's been finding these IS MY NEW HERO


FIFY

Posted by: Citizen X at November 14, 2014 03:51 PM (7ObY1)

41 You either accept your employer plan or you buy subpar Federal insurance...

not a lot of wiggle room there.

---

I get that. I was just pointing out that your employer was not saddling you with a tax burden.

I like the idea of taxing health insurance benefits as compensation because I think it should be untethered from your job. But I at least recognize that is unpopular and I would be honest about it. McCain's plan was more palatable though I'm not a fan of tax credits.

Posted by: SH at November 14, 2014 03:51 PM (gmeXX)

42 So, the took the worst feature of the AMT and attached it to Obamacare. Awesome.

Posted by: Mallamutt, RINO President of the Sheena Easton Fan Club at November 14, 2014 03:51 PM (OWjjx)

43 We have nothing to fear with Barack Obama in the White House

Posted by: John McCain at November 14, 2014 03:51 PM (kFxpe)

44 I'm sure we will hear the GOPe leadership getting up in front of the cameras and be outrageously outraged.....or not.

Posted by: A dude in MI at November 14, 2014 03:51 PM (o2Jt2)

45 Let's see. Not taxing a benefit is a distortion but a tax credit is not. Got it.

Posted by: RioBravo at November 14, 2014 03:51 PM (SaMXZ)

46 It's time to repeal this monstrosity cooked up by socialist serial liars.

It's so cute that you think that will be done.

How'z my ass taste now, bitches!?!!?

Posted by: King Barack I, Lion of Hyde Park, Keeper of the Holy Sites of Punahou and Harvard at November 14, 2014 03:52 PM (V+kmg)

47
SKULL! FINALLY!

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at November 14, 2014 03:52 PM (TIIx5)

48 Oh, I say and I say it again, ya been had!

Ya been took!

Ya been hoodwinked!

Bamboozled!

Led astray!

Run amok!

This is what He does....

Posted by: blaster at November 14, 2014 03:52 PM (Rx8ML)

49 I'm done. I'm going full Godwin and am calling this tool Goebbelsgruber from now on, or until I hear something wittier.


Schicklgruber?

Posted by: rickb223 at November 14, 2014 03:52 PM (AAJX/)

50 Unions hardest hit, to my great enjoyment.

Posted by: toby928(C) at November 14, 2014 03:48 PM (evdj2)


They saw through this right fucking away, and were working to have themselves exempted.

The media just sorta ignored that. Conveniently.

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) And father to be in 2 months! at November 14, 2014 03:52 PM (HDwDg)

51 You're move John Roberts!

Posted by: Kreplach at November 14, 2014 03:52 PM (bKSy7)

52 This entire thing is one gigantic scam. It's a scam, all the way down.





I want to see a bounty put on Gruber's head.



I said it.

Posted by: EC at November 14, 2014 03:52 PM (GQ8sn)

53 I short-circuit the libs arguments with this:

The ACA is a tax law.
We repeal tax laws all the time.
Deal with it.

_

Fuck the premise of their argument.
Fuck it like the chicken it is.
_

Posted by: BumperStickerist at November 14, 2014 03:52 PM (4CVLy)

54 Half or more of these videos were from before the 2012 election.

Who the fuck was doing Romney's oppo research?

Oh, right, it was probably Jon Gruber.

Posted by: Costanza Defense at November 14, 2014 03:53 PM (ZPrif)

55 Oh... and for the RECORD???

Some of us talked about this VERY ISSUE, prior to this monster passing...

None of the things Gruber has said is NEW...

The only NEW thing is that he admitted that we were correct all along.

Posted by: Romeo13 at November 14, 2014 03:53 PM (f0pWu)

56 First of all, Ace a nice job on the explanation.

2ndly, I say we grab all of these monkey butt fuckers and string them up.

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at November 14, 2014 03:53 PM (l1zOH)

57 It's time to repeal this monstrosity cooked up by socialist serial liars.

Posted by: Ace at 03:41 PM


Ace; How fast can you get on an Acela train straight to Mitch McConnell? I just know he wants to chat about this.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 14, 2014 03:53 PM (CMkNk)

58

Excuse me... but the entire Tax code is ALL about picking winners and losers.


Well, yeah. And I know who I'm talking to here, romeo, but for the bleachers people we should get rid of all of it. Mortgage interest, kids, health insurance deductions.

I hate the government using the tax code to dictate what it considers good behavior and it's useless anyway. Mrs. Bandersnatch did not decide to whelp twice for a tax credit.

Posted by: Bandersnatch at November 14, 2014 03:53 PM (JtwS4)

59 Fuck it like the chicken it is.

God damn it.

Posted by: The Chicken at November 14, 2014 03:53 PM (B/VB5)

60 Yeah, but since I'm not wearing an offensive shirt in any of those tapes, I'm golden!

Posted by: Jonathan Gruber at November 14, 2014 03:53 PM (DLu2s)

61 So are all these videos still up on websites or did he download and save them ?

I gotta think that after the first one came out, the word went around to the lefty web sites to take them all down ?!?!

Posted by: McCool at November 14, 2014 03:53 PM (nCSwS)

62 POS Bill passed by liars!
I called Grube & left him nasty message Tuesday. I posted his phone here & he's probably got a new number now.

Posted by: Carol at November 14, 2014 03:53 PM (sj3Ax)

63 If this is the most damning vid of Groobster, why release on a Friday?

Posted by: ghost of hallelujah at November 14, 2014 03:53 PM (7RXcs)

64 I want to see a bounty put on Gruber's head.







I said it.



Posted by: EC at November 14, 2014 03:52 PM (GQ8sn)

WHOA THERE....only the Black Panthers can do that sort of thing..

Posted by: Just Us Dept. at November 14, 2014 03:53 PM (o2Jt2)

65 OMG LOLOLOL

Ok, here's why you should really join a health share. Gruber HATES them.

"The whole goal of health-care reform is to ensure that people are protected against risk and illness, and this violates that fundamental goal," said John Gruber, an MIT economics professor and the director of the health care program at the National Bureau of Economic Research. He also served as a technical consultant to the Obama administration on the Affordable Care Act."

Posted by: Lauren at November 14, 2014 03:53 PM (BPMYx)

66 This is not as bad as Bush's lies to go to war with Iraq!!!! Big deal...President Obama tried to help everyone but the Republicans gave him a hard time, confused him, and we ended with a piece trash legislature because of the lack of Republican inputs when drafting the law !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: Jenny Stienum at November 14, 2014 03:53 PM (Sd++4)

67 54 Posted by: Costanza Defense at November 14, 2014 03:53 PM (ZPrif)

I'm pretty sure he was just on speed dial, but point taken....

Mitt was a bad choice and the reason I argued against him was based on his writing the rough draft for Ogabecare

Posted by: Sven S Blade a.k.a. El Assassin@sven10077 at November 14, 2014 03:54 PM (/4AZU)

68 He pissed on everyone else's plan and then turned around and adopted them.



He's basically Ed Norton's character in The Italian Job.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at November 14, 2014 03:54 PM (xSCb6)

69 about ACA is being confirmed by the guy who wrote it.

At this rate by next Tuesday we'll have video of him Wheel of MisFortuning a death panel.

Posted by: DaveA at November 14, 2014 03:54 PM (DL2i+)

70 You're move John Roberts!

----

Or the GOP president in 2016. The Dems badly miscalculated on Obamacare. They have paid a huge political price for that miscalculation, and it isn't going to survive anyway. Good job Obama.

Posted by: SH at November 14, 2014 03:54 PM (gmeXX)

71 Let's see. Tax credits are generally good (or better) but not, of course, those actually created by the PPACA.

Posted by: RioBravo at November 14, 2014 03:54 PM (SaMXZ)

72 The second way was have the tax kick in "late, starting in 2018.

******

They always do things by incrementalization.

Right now they ay people are happy with ObamaCare--which is complete bullshit--it hasn't been fully implemented yet--and the effects of the bill cannot be known.

Also look at that date--


2018.


After the elect Hillary.

(le deluge).

Posted by: Your Friendly Danube River Guide at November 14, 2014 03:54 PM (RJMhd)

73 Ace, if you've had what I've had since yesterday, you have my sympathies.

This thing is like a full-body migraine.

Ouch, ouch, ouch.

Posted by: Piercello at November 14, 2014 03:54 PM (JybVy)

74 See, I told you people it was a tax.

Posted by: Chief Justice John Roberts at November 14, 2014 03:55 PM (OWjjx)

75 52 I want to see a bounty put on Gruber's head.
I said it.
Posted by: EC at November 14, 2014 03:52 PM (GQ8sn)


What, a roll of paper towels? I think Nancy Walker is available (and dead).

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 14, 2014 03:55 PM (CMkNk)

76 33
To hell with impeachment. Pitchforks and torches.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton

May I bring 1/2" hemp rope to the party as well?

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at November 14, 2014 03:55 PM (l1zOH)

77 Impeach Holder then prosecute these fuckers.

Posted by: Thin veneer of civility at November 14, 2014 03:55 PM (XzRw1)

78 Friday dump?

Maybe for the Sunday shows?

Posted by: Golfman in NC at November 14, 2014 03:56 PM (wVWRM)

79 Posted by: Lauren at November 14, 2014 03:53 PM (BPMYx


The ACA does nothing to "protect against illness."

And to the extent it "protects against risk" it does so in a hamfisted way that prevents me from setting my own risk tolerance.

Exactly how is this guy an "expert?" FFS, I know more than he does about this. (OK, that's kinda unfair)

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) And father to be in 2 months! at November 14, 2014 03:56 PM (HDwDg)

80 Yeah, but since I'm not wearing an offensive shirt in any of those tapes, I'm golden!

I've already seen the photoshop of Gruber's head on the scientist's pinup girl shirt clad body. Perhaps it will generate some outrage. :/

Posted by: no good deed at November 14, 2014 03:56 PM (w3a0Z)

81 55 Posted by: Romeo13 at November 14, 2014 03:53 PM (f0pWu)

Some of us read and pointed out the AMT parallels, the fact it did none of the things it claimed that the unions were getting preferential for their caddy plans...

none of it matters people bought Ogabe doing his Vince Offer routine.

Posted by: Sven S Blade a.k.a. El Assassin@sven10077 at November 14, 2014 03:56 PM (/4AZU)

82 The real question is how long the MSM can ignore this. A great link in my nic to the conservative treehouse blog where they examine this in depth.

Posted by: Chilling the most at November 14, 2014 03:56 PM (wWs6x)

83 I want Gruber facing congressional hearings. And I want the Mittster to STFU

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at November 14, 2014 03:56 PM (l1zOH)

84 "This was the only political way we were ever going to take on one of the worst public policies in America."

And they were so proud of themselves for having passed this monstrosity by deception and skullduggery.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Obama_signs_health_care-20100323.jpg


Posted by: flounder at November 14, 2014 03:56 PM (sDapq)

85 76 May I bring 1/2" hemp rope to the party as well?
Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at November 14, 2014 03:55 PM (l1zOH)

Cool!

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 14, 2014 03:56 PM (CMkNk)

86 I'm sure the newly-elected Senate majority will get right on "reforming" this.

Posted by: brak at November 14, 2014 03:56 PM (Tj+s6)

87 Half or more of these videos were from before the 2012 election.

Who the fuck was doing Romney's oppo research?

Oh, right, it was probably Jon Gruber.

---

Maybe nominating the guy who implemented Obamacare 1.0 was not the best idea.

But time is also proving that Obamacare had not fully ripened with the American public in terms of their disgust. It is only get less popular.

Posted by: SH at November 14, 2014 03:57 PM (gmeXX)

88 Union guys, whose dues went to re-elect the same guy that conspired to defraud them, should be enjoying this, if anyone would just tell them.

Posted by: ever at November 14, 2014 03:57 PM (hRV3r)

89 74 See, I told you people it was a tax.
Posted by: Chief Justice John Roberts at November 14, 2014 03:55 PM (OWjjx)

To be fair, he did kind of see through the Gruber smokescreen. Whether that was the main driver for his ruling, we'll never know, but that's something.

Posted by: AMDG at November 14, 2014 03:57 PM (eFytx)

90 We need a fresh wave of immigration to boost the economy so this program can be financed properly.

Posted by: WSJ and Chamber of Commerce at November 14, 2014 03:57 PM (W5DcG)

91 "He's basically Ed Norton's character in The Italian Job."

We need to turn him over to the Ukrainian mafia.

Posted by: Wendy at November 14, 2014 03:57 PM (KydDZ)

92
Exactly how is this guy an "expert?" FFS, I know more than he does about this. (OK, that's kinda unfair)
Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) And father to be in 2 months! at November 14, 2014 03:56

So do my Irish Setters

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at November 14, 2014 03:57 PM (l1zOH)

93 Rich Weinstein DESTROYS Jon Gruber!!

Posted by: toby928(C) at November 14, 2014 03:57 PM (evdj2)

94 Posted by: SH at November 14, 2014 03:51 PM (gmeXX)

How, in a just system... can you be forced to pay a Tax, on money that the Government then says you must use to Buy a Product, the Government Controls?


The entire system is designed to make it virtually impossible for an employer to give their employees health insurance...

But then penalizing them for not doing so.

It is BUILT to FAIL.

Posted by: Romeo13 at November 14, 2014 03:57 PM (f0pWu)

95
If I believed in conspiracies, I'd say that the next big and lasting news cycle will be the coming race riots in Ferguson and probably several other major cities.

That should distract us for at least several weeks.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 14, 2014 03:57 PM (CMkNk)

96 Union guys, whose dues went to re-elect the same guy that conspired to defraud them, should be enjoying this, if anyone would just tell them.

Posted by: ever at November 14, 2014 03:57 PM (hRV3r)


Yeah, I fully expect them to get some sort of waiver.

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) And father to be in 2 months! at November 14, 2014 03:57 PM (HDwDg)

97 May I bring 1/2" hemp rope to the party as well?
Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian



Piano wire.

Posted by: rickb223 at November 14, 2014 03:57 PM (AAJX/)

98
...mislabeling it, calling it a tax on insurance plans rather than a tax on people when we all know it's a tax on people who hold those insurance plans."

This is important to note because this is exactly the same template for deception the Left uses for everything.

For instance, they accuse their opponents for denying people access to health care when WE ALL KNOW the disagreement is over taxpayers paying for other people's health care.

Or denying access to birth control when WE ALL KNOW it's about paying the bill for other people's birth control.

Posted by: Soothsayer, All Knowing Of (Approximate) Knowledge at November 14, 2014 03:57 PM (+f7H2)

99 Another blog exploring this is Michelle's mirror. Link in my nic.

Posted by: Chilling the most at November 14, 2014 03:57 PM (wWs6x)

100 One of the biggest groups who will be socked is fed employees. They will either pay out the wazoo for their benefits OR lose them. Their unions advocated for their own demise and huge pay cuts. Hehe. Stupid indeed.

Posted by: Lester at November 14, 2014 03:57 PM (2UPXV)

101 "This was the only political way we were ever going to take on one of the worst public policies in America."

Holy hell! These words. came. out. of. this. guy's. mouth.

Posted by: Heralder at November 14, 2014 03:58 PM (/Mxso)

102 So where do I need to direct my molotov cocktails and trebuchets?

Posted by: Anonymous Asswipe at November 14, 2014 03:58 PM (ne2fm)

103 But time is also proving that Obamacare had not fully ripened with the American public in terms of their disgust.

By design.

Posted by: toby928(C) at November 14, 2014 03:58 PM (evdj2)

104

If only we had Obama's words about targeting conservatives directly to the IRS. You know he did.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at November 14, 2014 03:58 PM (IXrOn)

105 "It's time to repeal this monstrosity cooked up by socialist serial liars"

that's cute that you think the GOP is gonna do that

Posted by: The Dude at November 14, 2014 03:58 PM (SyKbw)

106 83
I want Gruber facing congressional hearings federal pound-me-in-the-ass prison time.

FTFY

Posted by: Marvel-ing at the Stupidity of it all at November 14, 2014 03:58 PM (m2yGo)

107 The man that had these videos said there were more & I hope there are even more damaging ones, Weinstein!

Posted by: Carol at November 14, 2014 03:58 PM (sj3Ax)

108 So now, how to explain all of this to the LIVs?

'Cause Gruber's right about one thing, there's a right fat lot of idiots out there who prefer not to know what's going on.

Posted by: JEM at November 14, 2014 03:58 PM (o+SC1)

109 Yeah, I fully expect them to get some sort of waiver.
Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) And father to be in 2 months! at November 14, 2014 03:57 PM (HDwDg)

Which will be a fine precedent for President Walker.

Posted by: AMDG at November 14, 2014 03:59 PM (eFytx)

110 Free bit of advice for the lawyers working on this 404Care case that's up now before the Supremes:

Wheel a laptop with a surround sound system wired to it into the fucking courtroom and have at it.

Posted by: B at November 14, 2014 03:59 PM (oHWN4)

111
76 May I bring 1/2" hemp rope to the party as well?

Yes. No six foot drops either. Use the lift method.

Posted by: Thin veneer of civility at November 14, 2014 03:59 PM (XzRw1)

112 89 To be fair, he did kind of see through the Gruber smokescreen. Whether that was the main driver for his ruling, we'll never know, but that's something.
Posted by: AMDG at November 14, 2014 03:57 PM (eFytx)


It doesn't matter what Roberts believed the intention of the legislature was. The only thing that mattered was is it constitutional or not. It wasn't, and he should have killed it right there in June of 2012.
But he sucks ass.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 14, 2014 03:59 PM (CMkNk)

113 Gruber is and was just so pleased with himself about his scheming that he couldn't help but brag about it everywhere.

It's an Achilles Heel of the pathologically criminal class. They can't help themselves.

I look forward to the period where a truly responsible, representative government shackles the A-hole for his corruption. For Gruber's own good, of course.

Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at November 14, 2014 03:59 PM (1CroS)

114 90 We need a fresh wave of immigration to boost the economy so this program can be financed properly.


Posted by: WSJ and Chamber of Commerce at November 14, 2014 03:57 PM (W5DcG)


Recent study.... 41% of the Medicaid Increase were 'mostly' (their term) immigrants.

So now lets add another 5-10 Million... by Obama Amnesty Executive order....

Posted by: Romeo13 at November 14, 2014 03:59 PM (f0pWu)

115 66 needs more exclamation points to really encapsulate the crazy.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at November 14, 2014 03:59 PM (xSCb6)

116 Piano wire.
Posted by: rickb223 at November 14, 2014 03:57 PM (AAJX/)

Damn, I have all this rope on hand. Now I'll have to venture into the city and go shopping.

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at November 14, 2014 03:59 PM (l1zOH)

117 You know what I like about this? All the professional journalists couldn't find this but this slub found them. How often do you here about a carpenter or plumber waking an amazing medical breakthrough? It's almost as if journalism isn't a real profession.

Posted by: The Great White Snark at November 14, 2014 03:59 PM (XUKZU)

118 Stupid Sock.

83

I want Gruber facing <s>congressional hearings</s> federal pound-me-in-the-ass prison time.

FTFY

Posted by: Joe Mama at November 14, 2014 03:59 PM (m2yGo)

119 I have changed my mind. You people and your obsession with Gruber are the worst. What is wrong with you....Die Hard is about 30 years old!

Posted by: Jon Stewart at November 14, 2014 03:59 PM (OWjjx)

120 These guys need some tips on how to do international finance conspiracies.

I can help...for a price.

Posted by: Banker #3 of the Five Jew Bankers at November 14, 2014 03:59 PM (4/i9Y)

121 ??? You don't have to accept the benefits.
Posted by: SH at November 14, 2014 03:47 PM (gmeXX)


----------------------------------------


Then you pay the penalty.....er......tax for non-participation. And those penalties....er.....tax tripled this year.

Posted by: Soona at November 14, 2014 03:59 PM (toS2K)

122
Who the fuck was doing Romney's oppo research?

Oh, right, it was probably Jon Gruber.


Romney couldn't attack ObamaCare, because of RomneyCare.

Posted by: --- at November 14, 2014 03:59 PM (MMC8r)

123 >>that's cute that you think the GOP is gonna do that

The House has already voted to do it 40+ times. The Senate will do it when McConnell takes over.

And Obama will veto it.

Posted by: JackStraw at November 14, 2014 03:59 PM (g1DWB)

124 Well... Now we know but what, exactly, can be done about it? Did the Administration lawyers lie to the court? Does that matter? Can his majesty veto repeal?

In short, except for knowing why your ass hurts, what does this really change?

Posted by: Lokki at November 14, 2014 04:00 PM (xeE49)

125
so john roberts is vindicated by this?

Posted by: kj at November 14, 2014 04:00 PM (lKyWE)

126 My understanding was that the so-called Cadillac plans were not indexed to any inflation marker and it was made that way on purpose.


And at the rate everyone's plan are increasing due to this POS law everyone will be on a Cadillac plan within a few years.

What is ironic about this is that health insurance plans were originally started BECAUSE of commie FDR freezing salaries and the companies wanted to use it to offer an additional incentive.


Note also that they moved the floor for income tax deduction to 10% so that you would have to have massive health bills and be virtually destitute to qualify.


All this POS law was designed to do was provide FREE healthcare to the FSA, bankrupt doctors and hospitals and go to single payer. After which they would in effect have completely nationalized the health care industry because everyone would essentially work for the government.


Hugo Chavez was a poser compared to our commies. And I still say that this turd who designed it should be prosecuted for fraud and lying to congress and apply the RICO act for multiple felonies.

Posted by: Vic at November 14, 2014 04:01 PM (u9gzs)

127 Posted by: Romeo13 at November 14, 2014 03:57 PM (f0pWu)

I've noticed some pretty heavy benefits slashing. Since (IIRC) this is a tax on the employers, this probably explains the sudden push to high deductible plans.

While I'm normally a fan of high deductible plans, they require a certain amount of planning, and not being given that option, makes them a bit unwieldy. (Plus I like them because they cost less, but in these cases people are being switched to them while simultaneously taking pay cuts, so that cost differential really isn't all that beneficial.)

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) And father to be in 2 months! at November 14, 2014 04:01 PM (HDwDg)

128 Edit:

They always do things by incrementalization.

Right now they *say* people are happy with ObamaCare--which is complete bullshit.

It hasn't been fully implemented yet--and the effects of the bill cannot be known.

Also look at that date--


2018.


After *they hope to* elect Hillary.

(le deluge).

Posted by: Your Friendly Danube River Guide at November 14, 2014 04:01 PM (RJMhd)

129 Is this where we find out what's in it?

Posted by: eleven at November 14, 2014 04:01 PM (7kffg)

130 @118 - I'll support whichever Presidential candidate states that he'll keep Guantanamo open for Obama's advisors and cabinet.

We need to lock them all up, and have a national holiday where we can fly off to Cuba and throw tomatoes at the bastards until they rot in their pens.

Posted by: JEM at November 14, 2014 04:01 PM (o+SC1)

131
Actually it's pretty awesome how Weinstein is release these in drip drip drip fashion. The issue has already permeated the MSM, Mika's had to talk about it, and he's keeping it fresh.

Pretty media-savvy for an investment advisor we'd never heard of.

Posted by: Bandersnatch at November 14, 2014 04:01 PM (JtwS4)

132 As I said, the race riots will piss off even more Asians and Hispanics, who have to live there, and will make people think of the free-shit racket in general. A squirrel is ineffective if said squirrel is sitting right where the problem is.

Posted by: boulder terlit hobo at November 14, 2014 04:01 PM (FdlTq)

133 Romney couldn't attack ObamaCare, because of RomneyCare.
Posted by: --- at November 14, 2014 03:59 PM (MMC8r)
-----
No. He could have. He simply chose not to do so.

Posted by: RioBravo at November 14, 2014 04:02 PM (SaMXZ)

134 It is BUILT to FAIL.

Posted by: Romeo13 at November 14, 2014 03:57 PM (f0pWu)


****

And in that sense it is a roaring success.

Posted by: Seamus Muldoon at November 14, 2014 04:02 PM (NeFrd)

135 Equivalence:

The only equivalent scenario I could come up with for the Iraq War would be if Paul Wolfiwitz were out giving speeches in 2007 that went:

Sure we rigged the Iraqi intelligence - the oil companies are going to make a fortune! - Moo-who-wah-ha-ha ... suckers.

Repeatedly.

With John Yoo in the background saying "Fuckin' A!"
_

Posted by: BumperStickerist at November 14, 2014 04:02 PM (4CVLy)

136 So which news cast will lead with this or have a report on it? Anyone? Bueller, Bueller.

Posted by: wrg500 at November 14, 2014 04:02 PM (sWgE+)

137 The guy who's been finding these IS MY NEW HERO


So then, where the f* was he 2 weeks ago?

Posted by: Clutch Cargo at November 14, 2014 04:02 PM (sH832)

138 "It's time to repeal this monstrosity cooked up by socialist serial liars"

that's cute that you think the GOP is gonna do that.

***

Indeed, now is the time to reach across the aisle to do something about the problem liberals created by not enforcing the border and by paying illegals to have tons of kids, and that something is to make them all citizens with voting rights and a vested interest in living on the dole forever with many special treatments bestowed upon them so that they'll forever be indebted to one party, despite their, cough ugh, natural conservancy. sorry, I couldn't finish typing that without choking.

The one thing the GOP must look out for is not throwing Obama into the bri'ar patch because if there's one thing obama is...it's a, gasp ugh cough, shrewd political strategist. Wow, that was harder to type than I thought.

anyway, as a lifelong committed, conservative, catholic, I think we need to just give up on this and the borders.

signed, xxoo

Moonbeam Hussein Goldbergsteinbergstein-Cox

Posted by: joe-impeachin44 at November 14, 2014 04:02 PM (bhwH/)

139 All this POS law was designed to do was provide FREE healthcare to the FSA

As if they weren't already able to get free care, but anyway.

Posted by: HR needs donuts at November 14, 2014 04:02 PM (ZKzrr)

140 POS Gruber needs to be put under oath, sweated for everything he knows, and then thrown off the roof Nakatomi Plaza.

Posted by: John McClane at November 14, 2014 04:02 PM (Xv7f/)

141 "Then you pay the penalty.....er......tax for non-participation. And those penalties....er.....tax tripled this year."

Unless you join a health share.

Posted by: Lauren at November 14, 2014 04:02 PM (BPMYx)

142 I have changed my mind. You people and your obsession with Gruber are the worst. What is wrong with you....Die Hard is about 30 years old!
Posted by: Jon Stewart at November 14, 2014 03:59 PM (OWjjx)


Yippe-kay-ay motherfucker.

Posted by: John McClain at November 14, 2014 04:02 PM (V+kmg)

143 126 Posted by: Vic at November 14, 2014 04:01 PM (u9gzs)

The Democrat party is a walking rico case Vic...

Yeah I can be incoherent often on purpose but I was always clear and on point about this.

Obamacare is about three things.

1) Punishing Americans

2) Gifting Illegals healthcare

3) the Liverpool Pathway

Posted by: Sven S Blade a.k.a. El Assassin@sven10077 at November 14, 2014 04:03 PM (/4AZU)

144 The only way this could be better is if Gruber also addresses global warming. And Kate Upton gets naked.

Posted by: The Great White Snark at November 14, 2014 04:03 PM (XUKZU)

145 ??? You don't have to accept the benefits.
Posted by: SH at November 14, 2014 03:47 PM (gmeXX)


----------------------------------------


Then you pay the penalty.....er......tax for non-participation. And those penalties....er.....tax tripled this year.


----

I am not trying to defend Obamacare in anyway. I was talking about the idea of taxing health insurance as compensation - stand alone from Obamacare. If that is the change that would have been made, you would not have been forced into paying a tax. You would have had a choice.

Again, if the only change that had been made was to tax as compensation health benefits provided by employers, it (a) would have been unpopular as hell, but (b) would have had a much better overall effect on our health insurance system than what we have now.

Posted by: SH at November 14, 2014 04:03 PM (gmeXX)

146 If I believed in conspiracies...[i/]

It's hard not to these days.

Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at November 14, 2014 04:03 PM (W5DcG)

147 Romney acceded to Gruber's bilking of the Feds in helping prop up mAss-Care.

Posted by: boulder terlit hobo at November 14, 2014 04:03 PM (FdlTq)

Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at November 14, 2014 04:03 PM (W5DcG)

149 Romney couldn't attack ObamaCare, because of RomneyCare.
***
sure he could. he could have said, we tried it, it didn't work so well in Mass and will not work for the US.

How fucking hard is that. Libs think the Romneycare line is a debate ender in a Pelosi like level of rational thought. As if Romney is forever chained to one idea.

fucking donks used to be against Ghey marriage and open borders too until they realized that replacement constituencies can vote

Posted by: joe-impeachin44 at November 14, 2014 04:04 PM (bhwH/)

150 We're getting the money for Obamacare by selling arms to the glorious nation of Val Verde.

Posted by: broseidon king of the brocean at November 14, 2014 04:04 PM (4/i9Y)

151 133 Romney couldn't attack ObamaCare, because of RomneyCare.
Posted by: --- at November 14, 2014 03:59 PM (MMC8r)
-----
No. He could have. He simply chose not to do so.
Posted by: RioBravo at November 14, 2014 04:02 PM (SaMXZ)


I can see his TV commercial now:

"Look, I totally blew it in believing that big bloated centralized healthcare like they have in Britain and North Korea would work. But vote for me and I'll repeal it. And replace it too!

I'm Mitt Romney and I approve of this message, sort of."

Winning.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 14, 2014 04:05 PM (CMkNk)

152
And this was all part of the plan.


Kept secret from you. <<<<<<<<<<


Its not a trojan horse, its right there! - Gruberhoffenliar


The dems still don't understand why they lost the house and the senate. 90%+ of the people have been negatively affected by this monstrous law. Its gonna get worse.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at November 14, 2014 04:05 PM (1nB6R)

153 95. JJ. See #78.

You may be right. Trying to get in front of SHTF.

Posted by: Golfman in NC at November 14, 2014 04:05 PM (wVWRM)

154 you should listen to the whole thing. I listened beyond where the quote domes from.

he points out that the bill does not bend the cost curve and it is essential to have everyone in the system and not have an option to leave.

Posted by: n at November 14, 2014 04:05 PM (iBXmZ)

155 Isn't it wonderful that we're finally finding out what's in this beautiful piece of legislation?

Posted by: Nancy Pelosi at November 14, 2014 04:05 PM (toS2K)

156 And Obama will veto it.

So what? I don't want to hear that excuse for inaction. This is war.

Posted by: SE Pa Moron at November 14, 2014 04:05 PM (zxQ4h)

157 Now, we need a topping of Bergdahl's army findings.

Posted by: popcorn maker at November 14, 2014 04:05 PM (HqreO)

158 I want to thank President Obama for trying to help us people who are hurting because Bush. Thank Sir and keep up the good work for the little people.

Posted by: Jenny Stienum at November 14, 2014 04:05 PM (Sd++4)

159 Recent study.... 41% of the Medicaid Increase were 'mostly' LEGAL (their term) immigrants.

So now lets add another 5-10 Million... by Obama Amnesty Executive order....

Posted by: Romeo13 at November 14, 2014 03:59 PM (f0pWu

Sorry... messed up... 41% are immigrants... who are MOSTLY legal according to the study.

Posted by: Romeo13 at November 14, 2014 04:06 PM (f0pWu)

160 Day after this shit sammich was passed, I was working the public clinic and all the nurses were all "Whoot! Free healthcare! Yippee!"

Except for 2. 1 from Russia and 1 from Venezuela. The Russia one was all laughing at them and saying to the Venezuelan "they don't know" and the Venezuelan just said to them all "nothing is free, in fact free is really really expensive"

Posted by: Bigby's Latex Gloves at November 14, 2014 04:06 PM (3ZtZW)

161 God works in mysterious ways.

Posted by: seems legit at November 14, 2014 04:06 PM (A98Xu)

162 We have to move towards single payer now.

Posted by: GOPe at November 14, 2014 04:06 PM (XzRw1)

163
Damn. Just when we have a flaming skull post the kittehs demand teh foods!

In a bit . . .

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 14, 2014 04:06 PM (CMkNk)

164 regarding labeling, is it too much of a stretch to label his behavior treachery?

Posted by: n at November 14, 2014 04:06 PM (iBXmZ)

165 Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 14, 2014 04:05 PM (CMkNk)
----
He would certainly have needed someone else to write the commercial.

Posted by: RioBravo at November 14, 2014 04:06 PM (SaMXZ)

166 >>>But this is a huge story-- possibly the biggest story on Obamacare, ever -- so I can manage to write a few words.

I ASPIRE TO SUCH BRAVERY

Posted by: Bigby's Latex Gloves at November 14, 2014 04:06 PM (3ZtZW)

167 And Obama will veto it.

So what? I don't want to hear that excuse for inaction. This is war.
****
I don't want to get ahead of selves here but once we override Keystone veto...who knows what's next we can override.
if.
if.

Posted by: joe-impeachin44 at November 14, 2014 04:07 PM (bhwH/)

168 Obamacare and Amnesty are about fundamentally transforming ... the demographics of America.

The Prog plan is simple:

1) kill off the old, white people that won't vote for more socialism

2) import a replacement population that will

Posted by: Costanza Defense at November 14, 2014 04:07 PM (ZPrif)

169 We have to move towards single payer now.

It's the only way we can afford to provide healthcare to millions of dreamers.

Posted by: toby928(C) at November 14, 2014 04:07 PM (evdj2)

170 So which news cast will lead with this or have a report on it? Anyone? Bueller, Bueller.

-
And who will play Weinstein in the movie?

Posted by: The Great White Snark at November 14, 2014 04:07 PM (XUKZU)

171 Posted by: Jenny Stienum at November 14, 2014 04:05 PM (Sd++4)

Mary Cloggenstein's sister-in-law?

Posted by: Sean Bannion at November 14, 2014 04:07 PM (V+kmg)

172 162 We have to move towards single payer now.

Posted by: GOPe at November 14, 2014 04:06 PM (XzRw1)


I believe in single payer. Every single person who wants health insurance pays singly for his/her own plan from among MULTIPLE policies from MULTIPLE companies across state lines.

There.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 14, 2014 04:07 PM (CMkNk)

173 fucking donks used to be against Ghey marriage and open borders too until they realized that replacement constituencies can vote


***


Just wait until all those Adam & Steve couples start having babies...er...

Posted by: Seamus Muldoon at November 14, 2014 04:07 PM (NeFrd)

174 That tax tasted salty.

Posted by: Roy at November 14, 2014 04:07 PM (VndSC)

175 162 We have to move towards single payer now.

Posted by: GOPe at November 14, 2014 04:06 PM (XzRw1)

That was obviously the plan, to crash the system. I think it just happened too quickly. If it hobbled for a political generation, then the ploy may have worked. This set-up won't survive long enough for Biden to exit the Dem primary.

Posted by: AMDG at November 14, 2014 04:08 PM (eFytx)

176 Spring will be a good time for the grand rebellion. First, we lynch Congress and their enabling Lobbying Industry. Then we go after the Executive Branch. And then Harvard and Yale Faculties. Just because.

Posted by: dc at November 14, 2014 04:08 PM (b8fB0)

177 One other thing - Gruber admits these taxes on insurance plans will be paid for by the consumers... the taxes will simply be passed on to the customer.

Yet I'm sure Gruber would argue that any and every corporate tax is never passed on to the consumer... at all.

Friggan Jerk.

Posted by: Reality Man at November 14, 2014 04:08 PM (Cs9Ps)

178 165 Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 14, 2014 04:05 PM (CMkNk)
----
He would certainly have needed someone else to write the commercial.
Posted by: RioBravo at November 14, 2014 04:06 PM (SaMXZ)


If I believed in conspiracy theories I'd say that that was an insult.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 14, 2014 04:08 PM (CMkNk)

179 And by that time, those who object to the tax will be obligated to
figure out how to come up with the money that repealing the tax will
take from the treasury, or risk significantly adding to the national
debt.


Gee how about we kill the tax and kill the entitlement? How about that Mr. Genius Economist?

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at November 14, 2014 04:08 PM (1nB6R)

180 And that's a pattern with Romney. As a venture capitalist he booted lots of people off their health plans so they HAD TO shop afield. Saved the companies, perhaps. Let the government(s) pick up the slack.

Same shit with RomneyCare in Mass'. Mass' couldn't afford it, and Gruber knew it, and Romney must have known it.

Posted by: boulder terlit hobo at November 14, 2014 04:08 PM (FdlTq)

181 I never liked Gruber when he was in McHale's Navy either, scheming miserable asshole.

Posted by: Clutch Cargo at November 14, 2014 04:08 PM (sH832)

182 That tax tasted salty.
Posted by: Roy at November 14, 2014 04:07 PM (VndSC)


Sorry, I'll start eating more tropical fruit.

Posted by: John Roberts at November 14, 2014 04:08 PM (V+kmg)

183 So, Mitt Romney thought it a good idea to use this amoral creature to do work for him?

Posted by: seems legit at November 14, 2014 04:08 PM (A98Xu)

184 Posted by: Guy Mohawk at November 14, 2014 04:05 PM (1nB6R)

fraud

n. the intentional use of deceit, a trick or some dishonest means to deprive another of his/her/its money, property or a legal right

conspiracy

n. when people work together by agreement to commit an illegal act. A conspiracy may exist when the parties use legal means to accomplish an illegal result, or to use illegal means to achieve something that in itself is lawful.


Some assembly required.

Posted by: Romeo13 at November 14, 2014 04:08 PM (f0pWu)

185 >>So what? I don't want to hear that excuse for inaction. This is war.

And I didn't say it was. I was responding to a comment that said Republicans won't repeal this. They will try. They've been trying. Full repeal isn't going to happen until Obama is gone or the SC tears it down.

Posted by: JackStraw at November 14, 2014 04:08 PM (g1DWB)

186 Just wait until all those Adam & Steve couples start having babies...er...
***
they realized that adam and steve have a lot of disposable income and are natural communists.

adam and steve tend to adopt in their 50's though.

Posted by: joe-impeachin44 at November 14, 2014 04:09 PM (bhwH/)

187 If I believed in conspiracy theories I'd say that that was an insult.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 14, 2014 04:08 PM (CMkNk)
-----
I was joking.

Posted by: RioBravo at November 14, 2014 04:09 PM (SaMXZ)

188
Mary Cloggenstein's sister-in-law?
Posted by: Sean Bannion at November 14, 2014 04:07

Lesbian lover.

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at November 14, 2014 04:09 PM (l1zOH)

189 173 Just wait until all those Adam & Steve couples start having babies...er...
Posted by: Seamus Muldoon at November 14, 2014 04:07 PM (NeFrd)


Note: A semen-encrusted Tootsie Roll is a non-living entity.

But it will still be able to vote.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 14, 2014 04:09 PM (CMkNk)

190 That tax tasted salty.

I'll eat more celery before the next time.

Posted by: The Precedent at November 14, 2014 04:09 PM (zxQ4h)

191 Terrorism with a smile and a handshake.

Posted by: Fritz at November 14, 2014 04:09 PM (dVmLD)

192 187 I was joking.
Posted by: RioBravo at November 14, 2014 04:09 PM (SaMXZ)


Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 14, 2014 04:09 PM (CMkNk)

193 Be safe Rich Weinstein

Posted by: A dude in MI at November 14, 2014 04:09 PM (o2Jt2)

194 All this POS law was designed to do was provide FREE healthcare to the FSA

And force you to pay for it directly. And enrich insurance companies with a compulsory customer base.

Posted by: --- at November 14, 2014 04:10 PM (MMC8r)

195 I'm firmly not in the let it burn camp, but this shit is dark. If there is no way to get rid of this trojan horse after these videos, just ... throw some gasoline on it and set it all ablaze.

Posted by: Heralder at November 14, 2014 04:10 PM (/Mxso)

196 176
Spring will be a good time for the grand rebellion. First, we lynch
Congress and their enabling Lobbying Industry. Then we go after the
Executive Branch. And then Harvard and Yale Faculties. Just because.

Posted by: dc at November 14, 2014 04:08 PM (b8fB0)

*cowers in shame*

Posted by: MSM at November 14, 2014 04:10 PM (sDapq)

197 Flaming skull time!!! You know what that means...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvqJ1mTkEuY

Posted by: LizLem at November 14, 2014 04:10 PM (yRwC8)

198 Mary Cloggenstein's sister-in-law?
Posted by: Sean Bannion at November 14, 2014 04:07

Lesbian lover.
Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at November 14, 2014 04:09 PM (l1zOH)


I stand corrected.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at November 14, 2014 04:10 PM (V+kmg)

199 Too bad nothing will come from this...

Posted by: helloit's me Donna and I know nuthink! at November 14, 2014 04:11 PM (Bn6aD)

200 193 Be safe Rich Weinstein
Posted by: A dude in MI at November 14, 2014 04:09 PM (o2Jt2)

Mal. He killed me with a sword, Mal. How weird is that?

Posted by: AMDG at November 14, 2014 04:11 PM (eFytx)

201 The Dems think that they had a rough last 2 years? This could and should be brutal for them for the next election.

Posted by: wrg500 at November 14, 2014 04:11 PM (sWgE+)

202 And force you to pay for it directly. And enrich insurance companies with a compulsory customer base.

Posted by: --- at November 14, 2014 04:10 PM (MMC8r)


How can we consider ourselves to be a Free Country, when we must BUY a product by Government Order?

Posted by: Romeo13 at November 14, 2014 04:11 PM (f0pWu)

203 So which news cast will lead with this or have a report on it? Anyone? Bueller, Bueller.
Posted by: wrg500 at November 14, 2014 04:02 PM (sWgE+)


----------------------------------------


FNC has been pounding this. As I type, Cavuto is covering the whole mess.

Posted by: Nancy Pelosi at November 14, 2014 04:11 PM (toS2K)

204 It's at times like this that we need Sgt Bilko to get us out of this mess. Hillary can play Pvt Doberman.

Posted by: mallfly at November 14, 2014 04:11 PM (bJm7W)

205 Posted by: Clutch Cargo at November 14, 2014 04:02 PM (sH832)

I heard an interview of him this am. He has been sending this shit out for months and only went viral when he put it in the comment section on some blog.

Posted by: Madamex at November 14, 2014 04:12 PM (NwQcc)

206 Gruber, and all those like him, aka Democrats, are just downright evil manipulators who will say and do anything to win. Anybody who thinks that we can defeat people like him by playing all nicey-nice and gentlemanly-like is phucked in the head and is going to lose - and worse, make all of the rest of us lose to these Nazis.
I am becoming more and more convinced that to fight evil you have to employ evil's tactics right back at it.

Posted by: LGoPs at November 14, 2014 04:12 PM (+2dx9)

207 Everything that has been brought forth regarding this topic is stuff I and I think many others assumed from the very beginning.




Since we weren't fooled, this information doesn't really surprise us. Is there some chance this information will get to the people who need to see it?



That would be nice, but i'm not going to hold my breath. Even if it got to them, would there be any good consequences from it?



Don't see much profit in explaining to damn fools how it was that they had previously behaved like damn fools.




Posted by: D-Lamp at November 14, 2014 04:12 PM (txvbW)

208
It's time to repeal this monstrosity cooked up by socialist serial liars.


You betcha!

*giggle*

Posted by: Mitch McConnell at November 14, 2014 04:12 PM (Qgr71)

209 This is the kind of thing that should finish up the Democrats for generations. But it won't.

Posted by: Heralder at November 14, 2014 04:12 PM (/Mxso)

210 is Obama as angry as anyone yet?

Posted by: mallfly at November 14, 2014 04:12 PM (bJm7W)

211

There's not a big enough Green Screen for all the Baghdad Bob's at this point.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at November 14, 2014 04:12 PM (IXrOn)

212 That was obviously the plan, to crash the system. I think it just happened too quickly. If it hobbled for a political generation, then the ploy may have worked.

----

I think that is about right. I think they underestimated how much the public would hate it. The Dems paid a huge political price for Obamcare, and I'll be surprised it if lasts in any meaningful way. In other words, they paid a price for nothing.

Posted by: SH at November 14, 2014 04:12 PM (gmeXX)

213 Hopefully this will kill off any idea Mitt has of running again. I was pissed that he was GOP nominee last time because of Romneycare & Gruber helped write that bill too & said they awe the same.

Posted by: Carol at November 14, 2014 04:12 PM (sj3Ax)

214 Off skank sock

Posted by: Soona at November 14, 2014 04:12 PM (toS2K)

215 Wish I was still a lawyer. (Not really).

Would be fun to crank out the FRCP 60 Motion to see if we could catch Chief Justice Roberts in a lucid moment and see if he would decide that his previous SCOTUS Obamacare boner was reversible.

Posted by: Sharkman at November 14, 2014 04:12 PM (VdIfd)

216 Posted by: SH at November 14, 2014 04:03 PM (gmeXX

I'm not necessarily opposed to it either.

but my concern: poorly articulated though it is, isn't entirely crazy. If we're going to go this route we need to make sure there aren't still perverse incentives to making health insurance a substantial part of compensation.

Merely taxing it as income doesn't change that because the company still benefits by not having to pay it's share of FICA (as the system is current set up.)
This provides them with an incentive to shift more and more compensation to healthcare. (Actually that incentive already exists, indeed it's happening, but right now it's a net benefit for the employee as well.)

If we treat it all the same (That is subject to FICA and all the rest) it's probably not going to be a problem (unpopular yes, looming burden on people, no.)

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) And father to be in 2 months! at November 14, 2014 04:12 PM (HDwDg)

217 Gruber, and all those like him, aka Democrats, are just downright evil manipulators who will say and do anything to win. Anybody who thinks that we can defeat people like him by playing all nicey-nice and gentlemanly-like is phucked in the head and is going to lose - and worse, make all of the rest of us lose to these Nazis.
I am becoming more and more convinced that to fight evil you have to employ evil's tactics right back at it.

Posted by: LGoPs at November 14, 2014 04:12 PM (+2dx9)



Darwin applies to political movements too.


Posted by: D-Lamp at November 14, 2014 04:13 PM (txvbW)

218 if the folks at the Obama Admin are smart, they are right now getting ready to start the riots in Ferguson. Important evening news story.

Posted by: mallfly at November 14, 2014 04:13 PM (bJm7W)

219 131
Actually it's pretty awesome how Weinstein is release these in drip drip drip fashion. The issue has already permeated the MSM, Mika's had to talk about it, and he's keeping it fresh.

Pretty media-savvy for an investment advisor we'd never heard of.
Posted by: Bandersnatch at November 14, 2014 04:01 PM (JtwS4)


*********

Supposedly he sent it all to the MSM awhile ago and they simply

did.not.report.it.

Posted by: Your Friendly Danube River Guide at November 14, 2014 04:13 PM (RJMhd)

220 I am becoming more and more convinced that to fight evil you have to employ evil's tactics right back at it.


Posted by: LGoPs at November 14, 2014 04:12 PM (+2dx9)


I don't think you have to use their tactics... but...

You do have to be willing to FIGHT. To tell the TRUTH...

And cannot be afraid to 'offend'.

Posted by: Romeo13 at November 14, 2014 04:14 PM (f0pWu)

221
We've played out this farce many times.

Posted by: Soothsayer, All Knowing Of (Approximate) Knowledge at November 14, 2014 04:14 PM (+f7H2)

222 Mary Cloggenstein's sister-in-law?
Posted by: Sean Bannion at November 14, 2014 04:07

Lesbian lover.
Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at November 14, 2014 04:09 PM (l1zOH)

I stand corrected.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at November 14, 2014 04:10 PM (V+kmg)


***


Not necessarily mutually exclusive...

Posted by: Seamus Muldoon at November 14, 2014 04:14 PM (NeFrd)

223

What if these tapes didn't exist?

This is your government on crack.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at November 14, 2014 04:14 PM (IXrOn)

224 It's on CNN, is it on MANBC & other networks yet?

Posted by: Carol at November 14, 2014 04:14 PM (sj3Ax)

225
Actually the law was never about health care or health care insurance. Its about power to control.

You think you are going to the front of the heart operation line as a conservative? Here have a chat with Health Czar Lois Lerner.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at November 14, 2014 04:14 PM (1nB6R)

226 How can we consider ourselves to be a Free Country, when we must BUY a product by Government Order?

But we gave you ebola. Ingrate.

Posted by: GOPe at November 14, 2014 04:14 PM (XzRw1)

227 Yet I'm sure Gruber would argue that any and every corporate tax is never passed on to the consumer... at all.

Friggan Jerk.

Posted by: Reality Man


He did admit that the tax is passed on to the consumer via price increases in the 1st or 2nd video.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at November 14, 2014 04:14 PM (/lTUs)

228 Supposedly he sent it all to the MSM awhile ago and they simply



did.not.report.it.

Posted by: Your Friendly Danube River Guide at November 14, 2014 04:13 PM (RJMhd)

Haha...so he said F those guys...I'll do it myself. Nice.

Posted by: A dude in MI at November 14, 2014 04:14 PM (o2Jt2)

229 The guy who's been finding these IS MY NEW HERO
FIFY Posted by: Citizen X at November 14, 2014 03:51 PM (7ObY1)

Pulitzer worthy, both he and Sharyl Attkisson. Not that they'll ever get one.

Posted by: LizLem at November 14, 2014 04:15 PM (yRwC8)

230 The damning line that I extracted from Gruber's Nova interview was this, the great triumph over employer-provided health insurance:

"Once again, that ultimately became the genesis of what is called the Cadillac tax in the health care bill, which I think is one of the most important and bravest parts of the health care law and doesn't get nearly enough credit. I mean, this is the first time after years and years of urging -- and the entire health policy, there is not one single health expert in America who is setting up a system from scratch, would have this employer subsidy in place. Not one.


My emphasis.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at November 14, 2014 04:15 PM (l1zOH)

231 well, if you are going to fight evil have to begin by labeling it as evil.

Posted by: n at November 14, 2014 04:15 PM (iBXmZ)

232

And this was all part of the plan.

Kept secret from you.





That's the thing, though. It wasn't kept secret. He made these comments in 2011. This was all out there in the open.


It's not the lies that will bring them down. The lies were an open secret. It's the hubris of BRAGGING about the lies that will be the downfall of Gruber, Obammycare, and the whole leftwing house of cards.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit & Vaginassassin, aka Beth at November 14, 2014 04:15 PM (4df7R)

233
obama and the Left: the 2006 Chicago Bears

Us: Dennis Green

Posted by: Soothsayer, All Knowing Of (Approximate) Knowledge at November 14, 2014 04:16 PM (+f7H2)

234 Alternate Headline: Rich Weinstein squirts shame on Jon Gruber's face.

Posted by: toby928(C) at November 14, 2014 04:16 PM (evdj2)

235 Merely taxing it as income doesn't change that because the company still benefits by not having to pay it's share of FICA (as the system is current set up.)
This provides them with an incentive to shift more and more compensation to healthcare. (Actually that incentive already exists, indeed it's happening, but right now it's a net benefit for the employee as well.)

If we treat it all the same (That is subject to FICA and all the rest) it's probably not going to be a problem (unpopular yes, looming burden on people, no.)

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) And father to be in 2 months! at November 14, 2014 04:12 PM (HDwDg)



Simplify everything. Flat tax, ten percent, no deductions. Company wants you to have insurance? Increase your salary so you can chose it if you want it.



Much of our troubles in this area stem from the perverse incentives hiding in all the complexity. Toss out the complexity and a lot of stuff gets cleaned up.


Letting the government tamper with the tax code is just asking for trouble.


Posted by: D-Lamp at November 14, 2014 04:16 PM (txvbW)

236 Silver linings, of sorts: If Roberts had shit-canned this PoS when he had the chance. we'd probably not have all this nice material to rifle through to prove we conservatives were right all along.

Posted by: f2000 at November 14, 2014 04:16 PM (ONKYQ)

237 230 Damnit.

"Once again, that ultimately became the genesis of what is called the Cadillac tax in the health care bill, which I think is one of the most important and bravest parts of the health care law and doesn't get nearly enough credit. I mean, this is the first time after years and years of urging -- and the entire health policy, there is not one single health expert in America who is setting up a system from scratch, would have this employer subsidy in place. Not one.


My emphasis.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at November 14, 2014 04:16 PM (l1zOH)

238 Has anyone stuck a Mike in Mitt's face to ask him about the deal with The Swimmer to fund MassCare using Medicare $?

Posted by: Jean at November 14, 2014 04:16 PM (U67az)

239 I have a questin I don't think m anyone has asked yet...

Do we know where Kagan was during these WH meetings with Gruber and administration officials?

Proving she was present could make for some SCOTUS a fun, both in getting her recused from Halbig and from possible impeachment over the fraud in question, given that she didn't recuse herself from the last case because she claims she wasn't involved.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at November 14, 2014 04:17 PM (eauMe)

240
Supposedly he sent it all to the MSM awhile ago and they simply

did.not.report.it.

Posted by: Your Friendly Danube River Guide at November 14, 2014 04:13 PM (RJMhd)



Which is why they should be treated like captured Nazi soldiers, because that's what they damn well are.



Posted by: D-Lamp at November 14, 2014 04:17 PM (txvbW)

241 So, Mitt Romney thought it a good idea to use this amoral creature to do work for him?
Posted by: seems legit at November 14, 2014 04:08 PM (A98Xu)


----------------------------------------


Not only that, he happily signed off on Gruber's work.

Posted by: Soona at November 14, 2014 04:17 PM (toS2K)

242 142

Yippe-kay-ay motherfucker.

Posted by: John McClain at November 14, 2014 04:02 PM (V+kmg)

If you're going to spell the name of the Bruce Willis character that way instead of correctly as "McClane," perhaps you should add "my friends" to the end of the catchphrase.

Posted by: Slappy at November 14, 2014 04:17 PM (Am9Tn)

243 230 & 237 are from :
http://tinyurl.com/lm9c3up

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at November 14, 2014 04:17 PM (l1zOH)

244 Has anyone stuck a Mike in Mitt's face to ask him about the deal with The Swimmer to fund MassCare using Medicare $?

Posted by: Jean at November 14, 2014 04:16 PM (U67az)

Not Medicare. Medicaid.
Obammycare raided Medicare.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit & Vaginassassin, aka Beth at November 14, 2014 04:18 PM (4df7R)

245 TFG held a townhall in Burma & was met with protests & signs of fake.

Posted by: Carol at November 14, 2014 04:18 PM (sj3Ax)

246
Not necessarily mutually exclusive...
Posted by: Seamus Muldoon at November 14, 2014 04:14

Family dinners just got interesting.

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at November 14, 2014 04:18 PM (l1zOH)

247 209 This is the kind of thing that should finish up the Democrats for generations. But it won't.

Posted by: Heralder at November 14, 2014 04:12 PM (/Mxso)



Not so long as they control the "news" and "entertainment" industries.



Posted by: D-Lamp at November 14, 2014 04:18 PM (txvbW)

248 Retards

Posted by: Jon Gruber at November 14, 2014 04:18 PM (32Ze2)

249 obama and the Left: the 2006 Chicago Bears



Us: Dennis Green


Now we just need to be the 2006 Indianapolis Colts.

Posted by: HR needs donuts at November 14, 2014 04:18 PM (ZKzrr)

250 "Initially, only 8% of plans would be so affected." These happen to be plans with large number of subscribers, though. I think the percentage of subscribers is much higher than 8% even initially. I understand the cadillac status applies to total annual cost including employee contribution. Few plans, but many subscribers.

Posted by: dedomeno at November 14, 2014 04:18 PM (UccCH)

251 "I can tell you, in the United States Senate, we will not repeal or defund Obamacare. We will not and to think we can is not rational."

Posted by: Senator John McCain (2012) at November 14, 2014 04:18 PM (Qgr71)

252 Or Jon Grubers squirts shame all over Mitt Romney's face.


Either or.

Posted by: toby928(C) at November 14, 2014 04:18 PM (evdj2)

253 Article from Reuters: "special report: romney's steel skeleton in the bain closet" 6 Jan 2012

Posted by: boulder terlit hobo at November 14, 2014 04:19 PM (FdlTq)

254 Gruber needs to lawyer up quick. He is as they say, a dead man walking. IRS and every other Federal Alphabet organization is going to be up his A$$ quick.

Posted by: The Great White Scotsman at November 14, 2014 04:19 PM (Rm+rQ)

255 Nothing will come of this because the MFM is not even reporting it. It will be word of mouth which Dems will not believe until they get hammered by surprise surprise here's your new screwing with a a shit sandwich. By then it will be too late.


BTW, this is the same damn way they brought in the federal income tax.

Posted by: Vic at November 14, 2014 04:19 PM (u9gzs)

256 "Us: Dennis Green





Posted by: Soothsayer, All Knowing Of (Approximate) Knowledge at November 14, 2014 04:16 PM (+f7H2)"We better not let 'em off the hook.

Posted by: broseidon king of the brocean at November 14, 2014 04:19 PM (4/i9Y)

257 If there is justice (meh) it would be rich if the big mouth Gruber brought down his own lies (the plan) by going on a National tour telling his peers how he lied to get the dummies to vote for it.

I'd love to listen to Gruber's phone calls for the last 72 hours.

Posted by: seems legit at November 14, 2014 04:19 PM (A98Xu)

258 So.....
Back to let it burn?

Posted by: Navycopjoe knows only Palin can save us at November 14, 2014 04:19 PM (hwHa4)

259 Hey, you remember when some of us were saying how Obamacare being designed in the same model as was Romneycare was a pretty big fucking problem that couldn't just be papered over? Good times, good times.

Posted by: mugiwara at November 14, 2014 04:19 PM (D5hxK)

260 ಠ_ಠ

Posted by: The Tar n' Feathering Hat at November 14, 2014 04:19 PM (lN8KC)

261 That's the thing, though. It wasn't kept secret. He made these comments in 2011. This was all out there in the open.

That makes me rage a little. The press hit the whole "look we found a secret tape of Romney saying mean things at a fundraiser!" hard in 2012. Would have been nice to counteract with "oh yeah? We found the architect of Obamacare crowing about lying to the American public on the tax rates. 8 episodes of it. Check and mate." But no one on either side bothered to check them out...wasted chance.


Posted by: LizLem at November 14, 2014 04:19 PM (yRwC8)

262 it is amusing to here how gruber's model is described. I will bet you dollars to doughnuts it is not much more than a big .xls model.

Posted by: n at November 14, 2014 04:19 PM (iBXmZ)

263
Now we just need to be the 2006 Indianapolis Colts.


WE HAD THE FLU!!

Posted by: The New England Patriots at November 14, 2014 04:20 PM (+f7H2)

264 239 I have a questin I don't think m anyone has asked yet...

Do we know where Kagan was during these WH meetings with Gruber and administration officials?-----

She was up to her size XL undies in it.

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at November 14, 2014 04:20 PM (l1zOH)

265 Meanwhile, former Obamacare co-architect, Max Baucus, is selling off the state of Montana to the Chicoms one railroad car at-a-time.

Posted by: Fritz at November 14, 2014 04:20 PM (dVmLD)

266 ObamaCare: It's So Great You Wouldn't Want It If We Told You The Truth About It

Posted by: --- at November 14, 2014 04:20 PM (MMC8r)

Posted by: Mitt Romney at November 14, 2014 04:20 PM (Qgr71)

268 Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at November 14, 2014 04:16 PM (l1zOH

Lost on this idiot is the fact that the "employer subsidy" arose out of FDR's shit plans.

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) And father to be in 2 months! at November 14, 2014 04:20 PM (HDwDg)

269 Anyone else see a parallel with how the AMT has operated over the years? Originally intended to only spike 155 specific high-income households, but then through intentional neglect of re-indexing, now impacting a huge number of 'normal' wage earners.


Posted by: Sarge at November 14, 2014 04:20 PM (We5IL)

270
How can we consider ourselves to be a Free Country, when we must BUY a product by Government Order?

Posted by: Romeo13 at November 14, 2014 04:11 PM (f0pWu)



I've been saying this about mandatory automobile insurance for two decades. If the state feels that such a thing is necessary, this service ought to be supplied by the state.


Mixing private industry up in what is an ostensible government requirement is just asking for moral hazards.


Posted by: D-Lamp at November 14, 2014 04:21 PM (txvbW)

271 >>>We've played out this farce many times.

if history repeats itself as farce, what does farce repeat itself as?

Posted by: Bigby's Latex Gloves at November 14, 2014 04:21 PM (3ZtZW)

272 251 "I can tell you, in the United States Senate, we will not repeal or defund Obamacare. We will not and to think we can is not rational."
Posted by: Senator John McCain (2012) at November 14, 2014 04:18 PM (Qgr71)

---

Did anyone simply ask him, why?

The American public hates this law. HATES. IT.

Posted by: seems legit at November 14, 2014 04:21 PM (A98Xu)

273 perhaps you should add "my friends" to the end of the catchphrase.

-
John McCain the morning after amnesty is signed into law: Yippie Kay ay, my motherfucking friends.

Posted by: The Great White Snark at November 14, 2014 04:21 PM (XUKZU)

274 Look guys, I just hapopen to know what's best for all of you better than you do.

Posted by: Jonathan Gruber at November 14, 2014 04:21 PM (OD2ni)

275 Add me to the list of those not on board with the "universal" acknowledgment that exempting benefits like employer-provided health insurance is a bad thing.

It's one of the few tax benefits of being gainfully employed, for fuck's sake. Unless you're going to eliminate every single such social-engineering exemption, including mortgage interest and the per-child exemption, leave it the fuck alone. The act of eliminating one of these, while leaving the others, is itself social engineering, in the wrong goddamned direction.

And as others have said, many of us saw this problem with ObamaCare years ago -- pegging the cap for the 'Cadillac tax' to CPI.

Here's the real kicker about CPI, the Consumer Price Index: It is an almost comical underestimate of real inflation. Not only do they not count basic, essential commodities like food and energy in the CPI (they're just too goshdarned 'volatile'), but they also drive the CPI down by factoring in the fact that a 50" flat panel TV that costs $500 today, would have cost $1,000 a few years ago; so they count that as deflationary.

Even though actual consumer activity doesn't work this way -- most people will go out and spend $500 on whatever TV they can get for that money.

They do this with PCs too -- as if, 10 years ago, anyone would have considered going out and spending $50,000 for the computing power of today's Walmart $299 tower.

When you see a CPI of 2% or whatever they're pretending it is, and you see bacon go up 30% in a year, the bullshit is obvious. And BLS is about to start using a whole new method of calculating it. I bet their methodology will be purely apolitical, huh?

Posted by: Pastafarian at November 14, 2014 04:21 PM (LqrRo)

276 Supposedly he sent it all to the MSM awhile ago and they simply

did.not.report.it.

Posted by: Your Friendly Danube River Guide
--------------

I think that Gannett got it, because our local Gannett paper immediately (without any mention of Gruber) published an Editorial hyping Obamacare, and echoing the meme that the law should not be interpreted literally.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at November 14, 2014 04:21 PM (l1zOH)

277 If this had come out before the election, the GOP would have a filibuster proof majority in the Senate and quite a few Gubernatorial and state legislatures would have flipped.

Posted by: The Tar n' Feathering Hat at November 14, 2014 04:21 PM (lN8KC)

278 251
"I can tell you, in the United States Senate, we will not repeal or
defund Obamacare. We will not and to think we can is not rational."

Posted by: Senator John McCain (2012) at November 14, 2014 04:18 PM (Qgr71)

Brought to you by the guy who is exempted from Obamacare's pain.

Posted by: flounder at November 14, 2014 04:21 PM (sDapq)

279 HA! Look at the mouth breathers shaking their tiny fists.....

Posted by: Jon Gruber at November 14, 2014 04:21 PM (32Ze2)

280 if history repeats itself as farce, what does farce repeat itself as?

Tragedy.

Posted by: toby928(C) at November 14, 2014 04:21 PM (evdj2)

281 We should not act hastily.

Have you seen my rusty musket?


Posted by: Mitch McConnell at November 14, 2014 04:21 PM (XzRw1)

282 an arrogant extroverted economist, I cannot imagine a worse combination.

Posted by: n at November 14, 2014 04:22 PM (iBXmZ)

283 >>Do we know where Kagan was during these WH meetings with Gruber and administration officials?


Good question

Posted by: Lizzy at November 14, 2014 04:22 PM (ABcz/)

284
No wonder so many people want to be in congress, they aren't subject to this evil plan.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at November 14, 2014 04:22 PM (1nB6R)

285 264,

If so, there is precedent to toss her.

Abe Fortas resigned under pressure in the 60s over collusion between him and his buddy LBJ wth regards to the court, along with some questionable financial arrangements.


Participating in a fraud like this is clear grounds to toss her.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at November 14, 2014 04:22 PM (eauMe)

286 The ACA, so great we force you, upon monetary penalty, to purchase it.

Posted by: seems legit at November 14, 2014 04:22 PM (A98Xu)

287 "Once again -- subverting democracy by completely destroying the concept of Consent of the Governed."


And supplanting it with the Consent of the Criminally Misled.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at November 14, 2014 04:22 PM (oKE6c)

288 and then farce again.

Posted by: toby928(C) at November 14, 2014 04:22 PM (evdj2)

289 Gruber started of with Clinton people.


Still, Gruber nearly attended law school, only choosing graduate economics "at the very last minute." Gruber enrolled in Harvard's PhD program, intending to study international economics, but switched to health care partly because his graduate advisor-- Lawrence Summers, the future U.S. Treasury Secretary --suggested there were many health-care problems worth tackling in economics.


[...]

By the late 1990s, Gruber had been awarded tenure at MIT and unearthed some rich data about health-care reforms, but was still outside the policy wars. Then Summers ( Larry) asked Gruber to serve as a deputy assistant secretary for economic policy in the Treasury Department, in 1997 and 1998. There, Gruber was finally persuaded to jump into policymaking, in part by another Clinton adviser.


How Jonathan Gruber Became 'Mr. Mandate'

MIT News newsoffice.mit.edu

Posted by: Your Friendly Danube River Guide at November 14, 2014 04:23 PM (RJMhd)

290 Simplify everything. Flat tax, ten percent, no deductions. Company wants you to have insurance? Increase your salary so you can chose it if you want it. Much of our troubles in this area stem from the perverse incentives hiding in all the complexity. Toss out the complexity and a lot of stuff gets cleaned up. Letting the government tamper with the tax code is just asking for trouble.
Posted by: D-Lamp at November 14, 2014 04:16 PM (txvbW)


----------------------------------------------


I agree 100%. What's happening now is that we're getting a series of videos of "Tax-Lawyer Heaven".

Posted by: Soona at November 14, 2014 04:23 PM (toS2K)

291 TFG held a townhall in Burma & was met with protests & signs of fake.

-
Barky went to Burma to complain that they were backsliding on democracy. Pot, meet kettle.

Posted by: The Great White Snark at November 14, 2014 04:23 PM (XUKZU)

292 You have nothing to fear with President Obama. Stuff some guys said once.

Posted by: Super Creepy Rob Lowe at November 14, 2014 04:23 PM (oDCMR)

293 Oh, I forgot that Kagan was Solicitor General. Yes, where was she?

Posted by: no good deed at November 14, 2014 04:23 PM (w3a0Z)

294 Posted by: D-Lamp at November 14, 2014 04:21 PM (txvbW)

At least auto insurance is tied to driving... ie, if you don't drive you don't need it...

This is tied to Existing... to living...

Unless of course, you are in a specific group that does not have to do it for religious reasons.

Posted by: Romeo13 at November 14, 2014 04:24 PM (f0pWu)

295 I think everyone is reading this wrong.

Yes, Cadillac plans will go away. We just had our employee meeting about our new plan. The old plan had to be thrown out because it was too generous.

So, now we have a higher out-of-pocket next year. Thanks, Obama!

But.. by no means does that mean my employer is going to stop providing health insurance for our company!

They simply adjusted the benefits to meet non-Cadillac limits.

Yes, it's still pretty bad they were forced to do it. But WTF is Gruber talking about how much this tax will bring in? It will bring in nothing. Employers will simply be forced to reduce benefits in their plans.

And it is doubtful they will stop providing plans for their employees, thus preserving this "evil" tax deduction we get for this un-taxed benefit.

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at November 14, 2014 04:24 PM (4+IgA)

296 Everything we said about what this law was and how they were constructing it was true.

Let us take a moment to consider the implications.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at November 14, 2014 04:24 PM (659DL)

297 >>Do we know where Kagan was during these WH meetings with Gruber and administration officials?
*********
Eating at The Y?

Posted by: Truck Monkey, Aiming His Torpedo at November 14, 2014 04:24 PM (32Ze2)

298 Oh, I forgot that Kagan was Solicitor General. Yes, where was she?

She was in the pew, but she wasn't listening.

Posted by: toby928(C) at November 14, 2014 04:24 PM (evdj2)

299 HA! Look at the mouth breathers shaking their tiny fists.....

----------------

'Adolescents' - Johnnie Goober

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at November 14, 2014 04:24 PM (l1zOH)

300 if gruber was a man he would have gone been a global warming hack, obamacare is chump change.

Posted by: n at November 14, 2014 04:24 PM (iBXmZ)

301
There are innumerable lampposts around this nation that could use a little decorating right now... starting in Cambridge, MA and Washington, DC.

Posted by: Krebs v Carnot: Epic Battle of the Cycling Stars(TM) at November 14, 2014 04:24 PM (/dvmK)

302 And by that time, those who object to the tax will be obligated to figure
out how to come up with the money that repealing the tax will take from
the treasury, or risk significantly adding to the national debt.


Since when has that ever fucking mattered?

This eminent Lefty has not only confirmed the theories of fiscal conservatism in all of these videos, he's admitted that Leftist economic theories are complete bullshit. And yet he's still a Lefty.

These people are beyond repair.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at November 14, 2014 04:24 PM (xSCb6)

303 >>Has anyone stuck a Mike in Mitt's face to ask him about the deal with The Swimmer to fund MassCare using Medicare $?

It wasn't a secret. Mass took the money that was already being sent to MA for hospitals and repurposed it for people who couldn't pay for insurance.

It was all part of the plan from day 1 and he talked about it all the time.

Posted by: JackStraw at November 14, 2014 04:25 PM (g1DWB)

304
Ace: "I've had my eyes out."


I'm pretty sure that wasn't one of the migraine cures the Horde recommended.

Posted by: Bandersnatch at November 14, 2014 04:25 PM (JtwS4)

305 Cadillac health care plans, that would be union workers and high salary Very Important People. Two of Obama's most ardent supporters.

Obama screws his own people.

Posted by: Marvin the Mechanical at November 14, 2014 04:25 PM (bv57/)

306 2015 open enrollment starts tomorrow, this time with the new wrinkle of replacing those 2014 enrollment plans that need to be replaced with conforming plans this year.

Posted by: dedomeno at November 14, 2014 04:25 PM (UccCH)

307 Drudge removed the picture of the alien bird flippers.

Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at November 14, 2014 04:25 PM (W5DcG)

308 Why is TFG doing a townhall in Burma? WTF?

Posted by: Lizzy at November 14, 2014 04:25 PM (ABcz/)

309 D-Lamp: "Which is why they should be treated like captured Nazi soldiers, because that's what they damn well are."

I think I'll shorthand that to Goebbelsenvolk.

Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at November 14, 2014 04:25 PM (1CroS)

310 Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at November 14, 2014 04:24 PM (4+IgA

Plan cost is exploding.

At a certain point plans under the Cadillac cap will basically cover a bottle of aspirin and nothing more.

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) And father to be in 2 months! at November 14, 2014 04:25 PM (HDwDg)

311 Unless of course, you are in a specific group that does not have to do it for religious reasons.
Posted by: Romeo13 at November 14, 2014 04:24 PM (f0pWu)

And only the right religion. Otherwise, HHS mandate for you!

Posted by: AMDG at November 14, 2014 04:25 PM (eFytx)

312 308 Why is TFG doing a townhall in Burma? WTF?
Posted by: Lizzy

Frankly, i like it when he is out of the country.

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at November 14, 2014 04:26 PM (l1zOH)

313 "I can tell you, in the United States Senate, we will not repeal or
defund Obamacare. We will not and to think we can is not rational."
Posted by: Senator John McCain (2012) at November 14, 2014 04:18 PM (Qgr71)


Of course McCain said this in September 2013 before the government shutdown and when the Democrats had a majority in the senate.

A whole lot of events have happened since then.

Posted by: Maetenloch at November 14, 2014 04:26 PM (pAlYe)

314 Obama screws his own people.


He gave them exemptions.

Posted by: HR needs donuts at November 14, 2014 04:26 PM (ZKzrr)

315 should have let this video out Monday.

Posted by: n at November 14, 2014 04:26 PM (iBXmZ)

316 Treasonous.

Posted by: TheDissentingVoice at November 14, 2014 04:26 PM (w3U/d)

317 I have a questin I don't think m anyone has asked yet... Do we know where Kagan was during these WH meetings with Gruber and administration officials?----- i asked that the other day,she needs to recuse herself from any case that comes before the court concerning this monstosity

Posted by: kj at November 14, 2014 04:26 PM (lKyWE)

318

I saw the Tax Exemptions perform their big hit Shame Squirts In The Face live in Roanoke.

Posted by: Soothsayer, All Knowing Of (Approximate) Knowledge at November 14, 2014 04:26 PM (+f7H2)

319
>>Do we know where Kagan was during these WH meetings with Gruber and administration officials?
In the front row.

Posted by: The Indigo Girls at November 14, 2014 04:27 PM (OD2ni)

320 Where do we get our obamacare?

Posted by: Unstoppable waves of illegal aliens at November 14, 2014 04:27 PM (Tj+s6)

321 Torches and pitchforks? Tar and feathers? Rope? Firing squad?

Might I suggest something a bit more suitable for these scumbags?

Posted by: Vlad the Impaler at November 14, 2014 04:27 PM (fBxC6)

322
To help the republicans out with their pithy lines, it is:

Obamacare makes all employer plans go away.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at November 14, 2014 04:27 PM (1nB6R)

323 I think ShickelGruber won it back @49.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at November 14, 2014 04:27 PM (xSCb6)

324 301


There are innumerable lampposts around this nation that could use a
little decorating right now... starting in Cambridge, MA and Washington,
DC.


Crucify them !!!

Posted by: Thin veneer of civility at November 14, 2014 04:27 PM (XzRw1)

325 "They simply adjusted the benefits to meet non-Cadillac limits. "

And next year they'll have to adjust them again. And again the year after that. In 5 years, there are no plans that aren't "Cadillac" and all employees are forced off employer plans.

Posted by: Lauren at November 14, 2014 04:27 PM (BPMYx)

326 "Gruber explains that by drafting the bill this way, they were able to
pass something that would initially only impact some employer plans
though it would eventually hit almost every employer plan. And by that
time, those who object to the tax will be obligated to figure out how to
come up with the money that repealing the tax will take from the
treasury, or risk significantly adding to the national debt."



I wish they'd apply some of this ingenuity to dealing with, say, foreign policy, or reducing the national debt, curbing costs in higher education, or fighting crime in inner cities.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at November 14, 2014 04:27 PM (oKE6c)

327 "...partly because his graduate advisor-- Lawrence Summers,..."
------------------

My god....., the stench of the elitist Left is pervasive.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at November 14, 2014 04:27 PM (l1zOH)

328

obama screwed over the Kenyans??

Posted by: Soothsayer, All Knowing Of (Approximate) Knowledge at November 14, 2014 04:28 PM (+f7H2)

329 In my opinion, Mr. Gruber is not suggesting that Obamacare will be intentionally dishonest; he was trying to explain the law in layman's terms.

The extremists have reduced political and policy discussions to soundbites.

Posted by: Susan Olivia Cuthbertson-Klein at November 14, 2014 04:28 PM (Ks4nX)

330 Hillary can play Pvt Doberman.

-
Li'l Joey Boo Boo is trying to position himself for a 2016 run and is actually committing suicide. A few weeks ago he badmouthed Obama on the economy and now he is saying that the Clinton economy wasn't all that great either. Joe's making friends everywhere he goes.

Posted by: The Great White Snark at November 14, 2014 04:28 PM (XUKZU)

331 236 Silver linings, of sorts: If Roberts had shit-canned this PoS when he had the chance. we'd probably not have all this nice material to rifle through to prove we conservatives were right all along.

Posted by: f2000 at November 14, 2014 04:16 PM (ONKYQ)


Prove it? Prove it to who? Do you think this stuff is going to get through to the people that need to hear it and understand it?


I am cynical on this point.

Posted by: D-Lamp at November 14, 2014 04:28 PM (txvbW)

332

There will come a time when everybody
Who is lonely will be free . . .
TO SING & DANCE & LOVE
There will come a time when every evil
That we know will be an evil . . .
THAT WE CAN RISE ABOVE

Who cares if hair is long or short
Or sprayed or partly grayed . . .
WE KNOW THAT HAIR AIN'T WHERE IT'S AT

(there will come a time when you won't even be ashamed if you are fat!)

WAH WAH-WAH WAH

Posted by: toby928(C) at November 14, 2014 04:28 PM (evdj2)

333
Obamacare makes all employer plansemployers go away.

Yeah.

Posted by: Bandersnatch at November 14, 2014 04:28 PM (JtwS4)

334 I hope wherever h goes his new nickname is "juice"

Posted by: n at November 14, 2014 04:28 PM (iBXmZ)

335 Veronique de Rugy tears the cover off the ball:

"Liberals Admit That They Understand Public - Choice Economics After All!"

And to my liberal friends, I will say, now that you clearly understand the first lesson of public-choice economics, you can move to Phase Two of the lesson. Here it comes: The institutions of government are inherently incapable of performing certain tasks well, even if our most visible elected officials were smart, compassionate and well-intentioned (unlike the architects of Obamacare). An unseen army of self-interested bureaucrats and administrative agencies are just as self-interested as the worst of the politicians that we elect; but considerably less accountable.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at November 14, 2014 04:29 PM (/lTUs)

336 Our Employer provided Healthcare benefit went up 60% this year. I could have a nice S Class Mercedes AND a Honda with what we pay for Health Insurance.

Posted by: Truck Monkey, Aiming His Torpedo at November 14, 2014 04:29 PM (32Ze2)

337 Cadillac plan cost threshold is not much different than premiums for an individual-market gold policy but probably provides more value. Many plans near this threshold are not extravagant.

Posted by: dedomeno at November 14, 2014 04:29 PM (UccCH)

338 >>At a certain point plans under the Cadillac cap will basically cover a bottle of aspirin and nothing more.

Except that then it would not be allowed by HHS, because they have that laundry list of everything that a plan must cover.
Catch-22 - You have to include X, Y, and Z, and the cost of doing so makes it a "cadillac plan."

Posted by: Lizzy at November 14, 2014 04:29 PM (ABcz/)

339 There isn't a section, sentence, or clause that isn't corrupt in the entire 2000+ page monstrosity.




Just because it's on nobody's radar -- Obamacare also nationalized the student loan business. This meant that nobody was going to pay the slightest interest in whether a student was creditworthy or collegeworthy, or whether the student's major was likely to ever yield an economic return. This has been a life ring to colleges who would otherwise see enrollments decline as the "echo boom" graduates and college-age population drops....which benefits faculty, who are overwhelmingly socialists.



In return, it graduates great masses of unemployable Grievance Studies majors saddled with immense levels of debt.....'cause they're ever-so-likely to become Republicans.

Posted by: cthulhu at November 14, 2014 04:29 PM (T1005)

340 If Kagan has to recuse herself from the Obamacare subsidies case, THAT would be flaming skull worthy!

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at November 14, 2014 04:29 PM (4+IgA)

341 My god....., the stench of the elitist Left is pervasive.

Are these the inhabitants of Elysium?

Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at November 14, 2014 04:29 PM (W5DcG)

342 OT I just got a Libyan investment email. Seems they have moved out of Nigeria.

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at November 14, 2014 04:29 PM (l1zOH)

343
The ease and self-satisfaction with which Gruber and perhaps many thousands like him in the bureaucracy and academia is willing to consign millions of his fellow citizens to misery and suffering is just staggering.

We are a red cvnt hair away from becoming a much harder tyranny than the soft one we are in.

Take Charles Ponzi and cross him with Adolph Eichmann and you get Jonathan Gruber. And all the rest like him.

This is not gonna end well. But end it will.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 14, 2014 04:29 PM (CMkNk)

344 276 Supposedly he sent it all to the MSM awhile ago and they simply

did.not.report.it.

Posted by: Your Friendly Danube River Guide
--------------

I think that Gannett got it, because our local Gannett paper immediately (without any mention of Gruber) published an Editorial hyping Obamacare, and echoing the meme that the law should not be interpreted literally.
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at November 14, 2014 04:21 PM (l1zOH)


*********

LOL!

That reminds me--I was actually watching a Gruber video on youtube and he tells people NOT to read the health care law.

Before that he made a joke about his daughter wanting his wife to help him with her math homework.

Gruber said that he was insulted because she should want him to help her with her math homework because of his degrees in finance and so he asked her why she preferred his wife and she responded--

"Dad I don't want to know that much about math!"

Posted by: Your Friendly Danube River Guide at November 14, 2014 04:29 PM (RJMhd)

345 Would Hillary be smart to start an investigation into this nasty bill crafted by this administration?

Posted by: seems legit at November 14, 2014 04:29 PM (A98Xu)

346
Gruber, you're nothing but a Gruber

Well can you put your hands in your head, oh no

Posted by: The Jackhole at November 14, 2014 04:29 PM (6/J77)

347 The one where Gruber and the lackeys mock and laugh at the question about ballooning costs is infuriating as well.

http://bit.ly/1sPh8mY

Note who it was who wrote the question.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Now with extra taunting. at November 14, 2014 04:30 PM (mf5HN)

348 Armageddon. That was when they made me kiss that douchebag Affleck. Yuck.

Posted by: Liv Tyler at November 14, 2014 04:30 PM (wAQA5)

349 Posted by: Bandersnatch at November 14, 2014 03:53 PM (JtwS4)

Are we having a baseline you won't be taxed on income below x-amount then? Or are going to do the same with businesses and say you owe on whatever you make regardless of expenses? Health insurance, home mortgage interest, kids, can in a business analogy be viewed as expenses.

Posted by: Better Feared than Loved at November 14, 2014 04:30 PM (jasFi)

350 Yeah but why shouldn't everyone get healthcare? I mean, like, come on.

Posted by: LIVs at November 14, 2014 04:31 PM (Tj+s6)

351 "...partly because his graduate advisor-- Lawrence Summers,..."
--------------------

This would be the same Larry Summers who rah-rahed the CRA and consequent housing crash.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at November 14, 2014 04:31 PM (l1zOH)

352 Gee, this sounds so much better than fee-for-service.

Posted by: --- at November 14, 2014 04:31 PM (MMC8r)

353 308
Why is TFG doing a townhall in Burma? WTF?


Posted by: Lizzy at November 14, 2014 04:25 PM (ABcz/)

In a perfect world, it would be because he was in exile.

Posted by: flounder at November 14, 2014 04:31 PM (sDapq)

354

There will come a time when everybody
Who is lonely will be free . . .
TO SING & DANCE & LOVE (dance and love)

There will come a time when every evil
That we know will be an evil . . .
THAT WE CAN RISE ABOVE (rise above)

Who cares if you're so poor you can't afford
To buy a pair of Mod A Go-Go stretch-elastic pants . . .
THERE WILL COME A TIME WHEN YOU CAN EVEN
TAKE YOUR CLOTHES OFF WHEN YOU DANCE

Posted by: toby928(C) at November 14, 2014 04:31 PM (evdj2)

355 @238

And that's an important point.

RomneyCare would have failed without a massive infusion of Fed money.

This whole business is perverse and obscene.

The first thing the dopes that run GOPe better damn well do once they take control in January is get this son of bitch under oath and make him squeal like the commie pig he is.

Posted by: Kreplach at November 14, 2014 04:31 PM (bKSy7)

356 **Time to contact your GOP Senator STAT!**

"GOP Conference to Vote on Forcing All Staff onto Obamacare Exchanges"

The Senate Republican Conference is currently conducting leadership elections. It is also voting on a handful of proposals and resolutions that, if backed by a majority of the conference, will be adopted as the formal positions of the GOP. They include the provision below, proposed by Louisiana senator David Vitter, which would require all Republican senators to force their staffers onto D.C.'s Obamacare exchange, and to challenge Democrats to do the same.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at November 14, 2014 04:32 PM (/lTUs)

357 342 OT I just got a Libyan investment email. Seems they have moved out of Nigeria.
Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at November 14, 2014 04:29 PM (l1zOH)


Dear Friend:

I am Dr. Jonathan Gruber, PhD of MIT and an advisor to President Obama. Recently, I had to go into hiding but have access to $400 million dollars of excess Massachusetts Medicaid funds.

Please send me $5000 US via Western Union to cover all modalities and I will send you $50million US for your help.

Remain blessed.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 14, 2014 04:32 PM (CMkNk)

358 Li'l Joey Boo Boo is trying to position himself for a 2016 run and is actually committing suicide. A few weeks ago he badmouthed Obama on the economy
Posted by: The Great White Snark at November 14, 2014 04:28 PM (XUKZU)


Well....it WAS a big f**king deal!!!

::: sob :::

Posted by: Joe Biden at November 14, 2014 04:32 PM (V+kmg)

359 Where do we get our obamacare?
Posted by: Unstoppable waves of illegal aliens



Mexico City. Must apply in person.

Posted by: rickb223 at November 14, 2014 04:32 PM (AAJX/)

360 Y'all do understand that this won't make a bit of difference to the people who count?

And that's IF they're paying attention to it.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That at November 14, 2014 04:32 PM (KK+mC)

361 Holy shit Harvard and MIT have a lot of dumbasses.

Are these really the people who are passed off as "really smart?"

Posted by: seems legit at November 14, 2014 04:32 PM (A98Xu)

362
A whole lot of events have happened since then.
Posted by: Maetenloch at November 14, 2014 04:26

And Maet, I bet you a bottle of valu-rite McCain's opinion remains the same.

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at November 14, 2014 04:32 PM (vPh3W)

363 "18 I'm done. I'm going full Godwin and am calling this tool Goebbelsgruber from now on, or until I hear something wittier."


I hereby submit: "Gruebbels."

Posted by: Jay Guevara at November 14, 2014 04:33 PM (oKE6c)

364 Uhh... I'm now starting to think that perhaps this Obama fellow might actually be the problem... OK, time to change the channel.

Posted by: Stupid, Uninformed Voter at November 14, 2014 04:33 PM (78OXS)

365 Chi-Town Jerry at 295: "Employers will simply be forced to reduce benefits in their plans.
And it is doubtful they will stop providing plans for their
employees, thus preserving this "evil" tax deduction we get for this
un-taxed benefit."

It's not doubtful that our small company will stop providing plans. It's inevitable that we will. Premiums went up 20% last year. After payroll and material, health care premiums are our biggest expense. If they go up another 20% this year, we'll still offer them for one more year. If they go up another 20% the year after that, we're done, and our employees will have to fend for themselves. And a few of them have children with serious long-term conditions.

I swear to Christ, I haven't taken a solid shit since this feckless socialist twat-waffle was elected. Most of the time you see presidents age in office; during this shit-head's term, everyone else has the greying at the temples.

That's really what I'm looking forward to most, in 2016, when President Scott Walker is elected: A nice solid shit.

Posted by: Pastafarian at November 14, 2014 04:33 PM (LqrRo)

366 Annnnnd what will Mitch and John do??? It is really the only question that matters...really. My bet...nothing.

Posted by: getonwidit at November 14, 2014 04:33 PM (TiTon)

367 Remain blessed.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 14, 2014 04:32

The names were change to protect the guility.

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at November 14, 2014 04:33 PM (vPh3W)

368 Obamacare and Amnesty are about fundamentally transforming ... the demographics of America.



The Prog plan is simple:



1) kill off the old, white people that won't vote for more socialism



2) import a replacement population that will

Posted by: Costanza Defense at November 14, 2014 04:07 PM (ZPrif)


It's the Underpants Gnomes theory of economics:

1) Kill off all the productive workers and innovators, and tax all those still living to penury.

2) Import vast quantities of orcs who won't work.

3) ?

4) ?

5) Profit! Just like Venezuela.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at November 14, 2014 04:34 PM (7MWCL)

369 Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at November 14, 2014 04:24 PM (4+IgA)

My Girlfriend currently pays over $9K a year, just for herself.

If healthcare costs go up 10% in the next FOUR years... she will be at the cap.

She is a glorified secretary working for a School District.

Note, it is the IRS who gets to determine the Cap... and after 2018 will increase it by the COLA adjustment... that is already lower than inflation.

Eventually, everyone who actually pays, will be over that Cap... because... MATH...

Posted by: Romeo13 at November 14, 2014 04:34 PM (f0pWu)

370 >>>Our Employer provided Healthcare benefit went up 60% this year. I could
have a nice S Class Mercedes AND a Honda with what we pay for Health
Insurance.<<<

How many Cadillacs does that equal? Hey, I'm a moron.

Posted by: Fritz at November 14, 2014 04:34 PM (dVmLD)

371 "Remain blessed. "

That's it. JJ just won the internet.

Posted by: Lauren at November 14, 2014 04:34 PM (BPMYx)

372 I just wonder what the Burmese are going to make Teh JEF wear. Some form of tribal get up would be Teh Awesome. A bamboo penis sheath perhaps?

Posted by: Truck Monkey, Aiming His Torpedo at November 14, 2014 04:34 PM (32Ze2)

373 Toby -

Waa waa wa waaaa.

Posted by: freaked at November 14, 2014 04:35 PM (JdEZJ)

374 Are these really the people who are passed off as "really smart?"
Posted by: seems legit at November 14, 2014 04:32 PM (A98Xu)


No, they're really wicked smahhht

Posted by: Good Will Hunting at November 14, 2014 04:35 PM (V+kmg)

375 282 an arrogant extroverted economist, I cannot imagine a worse combination.

Posted by: n at November 14, 2014 04:22 PM (iBXmZ)



Ignorant and stupid but narcissistic community organizer.



Posted by: D-Lamp at November 14, 2014 04:35 PM (txvbW)

376
Health insurance, home mortgage interest, kids, can in a business analogy be viewed as expenses.

So can commuting, food, and my cable bill. Those things are in the tax code because the government wants to reward good behavior (home owners with children) and discourage bad behavior (childless renters).

I don't think they actually do alter people's choices, though. I know they never affected my choices. I have two boys because I was married and we wanted a family. I'd have done that without the tax break.

It's always about power and control. I want all nannying out of the tax code.

Posted by: Bandersnatch at November 14, 2014 04:35 PM (JtwS4)

377
My Girlfriend currently pays over $9K a year, just for herself.


Plus deductibles and copays.

It's designed so that no one who pays gets benefits, in order to pay for those who pay nothing.

Posted by: --- at November 14, 2014 04:35 PM (MMC8r)

378 In a perfect world, it would be because he was in exile.


Posted by: flounder at November 14, 2014 04:31 PM (sDapq)


No. In a perfect world he'd be before a military tribunal in Burma, and the tribunal members would be really grim-faced and looking at their watches while Barky was trying to get off the hook.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at November 14, 2014 04:35 PM (oKE6c)

379 Posted by: Lizzy at November 14, 2014 04:29 PM (ABcz/

Yes well obviously.

I was being dramatic for a point. My point being, since costs keep exploding at some point what is considered not a Cadillac plan isn't something you'd consider a "health insurance benefit" anymore.

Ohz, and here's a cool trick, apparently the definition of "compensation" under the plan (according ott he American Health Policy institute) includes premiums (paid for by either the employee or the employer!) HRA, HSA, and reimbursements from flex spending accounts.

If I'm reading this right, that means that if you load a flex spending account (you're own fucking money) to cover your brand new raised deductible it counts towards the "Cadillac tax."

So lowering benefits might not even help dodge it, if people just react by putting more money in FSAs.

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) And father to be in 2 months! at November 14, 2014 04:35 PM (HDwDg)

380 gruber is less of a mouthpiece like goebbels and more final solution himmler guy.

Posted by: n at November 14, 2014 04:35 PM (iBXmZ)

381 Too complicated, must be a Republican plot.

I'm not buying it.

Obama knows best.

Posted by: Stew Pidlib at November 14, 2014 04:35 PM (1Y+hH)

382 gruber is less of a mouthpiece like goebbels and more final solution himmler guy.

Posted by: n at November 14, 2014 04:36 PM (iBXmZ)

383 OT I just got a Libyan investment email. Seems they have moved out of Nigeria.

-
Back during Gulf War I, I got an email from Uday and Kousay (or however you spell their camel loving names).

Posted by: The Great White Snark at November 14, 2014 04:36 PM (XUKZU)

384 Yeah, JJ good one

Posted by: The Jackhole at November 14, 2014 04:36 PM (6/J77)

385 Too complicated, must be a Republican plot.

I'm not buying it.

Obama knows best.

Posted by: Stew Pidlib at November 14, 2014 04:36 PM (1Y+hH)

386 Jon Gruber is the Riddler.

Posted by: Chris_Balsz at November 14, 2014 04:36 PM (pYEaj)

387 Can we get a giant flaming Kim Kar butt?

Posted by: walknot at November 14, 2014 04:36 PM (86zol)

388
Dear Friend:

I am Dr. Jonathan Gruber, PhD of MIT and an advisor to President Obama. Recently, I had to go into hiding but have access to $400 million dollars of excess Massachusetts Medicaid funds.

Please send me $5000 US via Western Union to cover all modalities and I will send you $50million US for your help.

Remain blessed.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton
-------------

ROFL

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at November 14, 2014 04:36 PM (l1zOH)

389 49 Schicklgruber?
Posted by: rickb223 at November 14, 2014 03:52 PM (AAJX/)


DUDE!!!! You win the interwebz for that. Fucking brilliant.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 14, 2014 04:36 PM (CMkNk)

390 And Maet, I bet you a bottle of valu-rite McCain's opinion remains the same.
Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at November 14, 2014 04:32 PM (vPh3W)


Well from context I think he was talking about the ability (as opposed to desire) to get rid of ObamaCare and he was probably right at that time. So his opinion has likely changed somewhat since then.

And yes I hate having to defend John McCain who I've been ready to see leave the political sphere since 2000.

Posted by: Maetenloch at November 14, 2014 04:36 PM (pAlYe)

391 "our local Gannett paper immediately published an Editorial hyping
Obamacare, and echoing the meme that the law should not be interpreted literally."



What the figurative fuck??

So, what, we should start reading legal matter metaphorically?

This country needs an enema.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at November 14, 2014 04:37 PM (xSCb6)

392 Double flaming skulls.

Posted by: dfbaskwill at November 14, 2014 04:37 PM (BXpDr)

393 372 I just wonder what the Burmese are going to make Teh JEF wear. Some form of tribal get up would be Teh Awesome. A bamboo penis sheath perhaps?
Posted by: Truck Monkey, Aiming His Torpedo at November 14, 2014 04:34 PM (32Ze2)



I'm hoping for the highest honor: a sequined jock strap, with appropriate insignia of rank.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at November 14, 2014 04:37 PM (oKE6c)

394 Just like Venezuela

-
The head honcho of Venezuela has ordered the price of TVs and other popular items to be lowered for Christmas. That'll work out well.

Posted by: The Great White Snark at November 14, 2014 04:37 PM (XUKZU)

395 And this is why the Center for American Progress pushed for public schools to drop economics (and the Constitution) from their curricula. These demons want easily-controlled slaves to serve them as they bask in all of the stolen private wealth like Effendi.

Posted by: YourMomKeepsTexting at November 14, 2014 04:37 PM (ks56A)

396 Did a search of NYT yesterday, searching for news re Grubergate. Nothing.

They are like my dog, scratching dirt over a poo.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at November 14, 2014 04:37 PM (l1zOH)

397 Senator Warner - As your vote helped to pass ACA, did you:
- Approve of the deliberate obfuscation of key elements?
- Know about or participate in this deceptive practice?
- If not, why did you cast your vote in support of something for which you were so unfamiliar?

Posted by: goatexchange at November 14, 2014 04:37 PM (sYUHT)

398 I bet the flopsweat in the Obama Bunker is reaching retching levels about now. Hopefully, we will have more revelations of their cupidity, fecklessness and dishonesty. It must feel great to be an Ivy League majordomo.

Posted by: Super Creepy Rob Lowe at November 14, 2014 04:37 PM (oDCMR)

399 377
My Girlfriend currently pays over $9K a year, just for herself.

Plus deductibles and copays.

It's designed so that no one who pays gets benefits, in order to pay for those who pay nothing.
Posted by: --- at November 14, 2014 04:35 PM (MMC8r)


********

It works like communism.

Brings everyone down to average and the few decide what is good for the many.

Gruber--and Hillary--and maybe Larry Summers.


You can bet this is just phase one of Hillary Care--they had this crap ready to roll since then.

Posted by: Your Friendly Danube River Guide at November 14, 2014 04:38 PM (RJMhd)

400 388 Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at November 14, 2014 04:36 PM (l1zOH)


Have you ever read Scamorama.com? It's people who spend all day scamming the Nigerian scammers.

Funny stuff.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 14, 2014 04:38 PM (CMkNk)

401 "Half or more of these videos were from before the 2012 election. Who the fuck was doing Romney's oppo research?"

Neither Romney nor McCain devoted any energy or money to oppo, because the whole point of oppo is to dig up stuff with which to attack your adversary, and neither man had any stomach for direct attacks on Historic First.

Posted by: torquewrench at November 14, 2014 04:38 PM (noWW6)

402 So can commuting, food, and my cable bill. Those things are in the tax code because the government wants to reward good behavior (home owners with children) and discourage bad behavior (childless renters).

Posted by: Bandersnatch at November 14, 2014 04:35 PM (JtwS4)



That's right. Yet another reason I am the single handed downfall of Western Civilization.

BC! For to be bringing me some pop!

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Now with extra taunting. at November 14, 2014 04:38 PM (mf5HN)

403 OT: Enough MATH. Now for the daily ghey...

The Houston LGBTXYZ moved next years Pride parade from its historic route to one in/near the city center and moved it one week earlier. Ooops. That is the same time as the Juneteenth celebration. No. No. No. No. Well, after an exciting meeting of the LGBTXYZ and teenthies, Pride has now been moved back to its traditional week.

Posted by: RioBravo at November 14, 2014 04:38 PM (SaMXZ)

404 "Plus deductibles and copays. "

Yep. Here's a great illustration of that. I had some blood work done yesterday. They asked for my insurance information and I explained I was in a cost share and that I could either pay up front or they could bill me, but either way the cost-share would reimburse me directly.

This confused them, but they went ahead and rang up my bill right there.

They first gave me the rate for someone who has insurance, but a high deductible. $296.

I clarified that what I have is NOT insurance and I should be given the self pay rate. $45

The insurance system is set up to screw the consumer. Opt out.

Posted by: Lauren at November 14, 2014 04:39 PM (BPMYx)

405 397 Senator Warner - As your vote helped to pass ACA, did you:
- Approve of the deliberate obfuscation of key elements?
- Know about or participate in this deceptive practice?
- If not, why did you cast your vote in support of something for which you were so unfamiliar?
--------------------------------
Because Harry Reid told him to. Simple really.

Posted by: Super Creepy Rob Lowe at November 14, 2014 04:39 PM (oDCMR)

406 >>>It's designed so that no one who pays gets benefits, in order to pay for those who pay nothing.

Its why the only answer is not to pay.

Posted by: Bigby's Latex Gloves at November 14, 2014 04:39 PM (3ZtZW)

407
At least auto insurance is tied to driving... ie, if you don't drive you don't need it...

This is tied to Existing... to living...

Unless of course, you are in a specific group that does not have to do it for religious reasons.

Posted by: Romeo13 at November 14, 2014 04:24 PM (f0pWu)


If you live and work in a big city, perhaps driving isn't tied to your living. But for most people I know, it is.


If you can't drive, you can't make a living.



I see the Mandatory Health Insurance Law in exactly the same light as a Mandatory Auto Insurance law.


Neither one of them is an appropriate use of governmental power.


Posted by: D-Lamp at November 14, 2014 04:39 PM (txvbW)

408 I bet the flopsweat in the Obama Bunker is reaching retching levels about now.



Steiner!

Posted by: rickb223 at November 14, 2014 04:39 PM (AAJX/)

409 I bet the flopsweat in the Obama Bunker is reaching retching levels about now.
Posted by: Super Creepy Rob Lowe at November 14, 2014 04:37 PM (oDCMR)


Wrong.

They. Don't. Fucking. Care. Period.

They are not wired to think like normal people.

I now return you to your regularly scheduled crisis.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at November 14, 2014 04:39 PM (V+kmg)

410 Wait, did I just read a comment where the employee faces a tax on benefits for the money the employer pays towards the employee's cadillac health care plan?

Posted by: Marvin the Mechanical at November 14, 2014 04:39 PM (bv57/)

411 I'm hoping for the highest honor: sequined jock strap panties, with appropriate insignia of rank.
Posted by: Jay
---------------

Edited for ..., well, because I wanted to.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at November 14, 2014 04:39 PM (l1zOH)

412
Yet another reason I am the single handed downfall of Western Civilization.

Unpossible.

You don't exist.

Posted by: Bandersnatch at November 14, 2014 04:40 PM (JtwS4)

413 "Dad I don't want to know that much about math!"



Smart girl.


Health insurance, home mortgage interest, kids, can in a business analogy be viewed as expenses.

So are rent, food, heat, and the twelve bags of chocolate I keep in my desk to keep from shanking people, but I get to pay all that out of what's left after I pay taxes, which are extremely fucking exorbitant because I never whelped any deductions (thanks for the phrase, Bandersnatch).

Posted by: HR needs donuts at November 14, 2014 04:40 PM (ZKzrr)

414
Isn't it wise to assume they're doing the exact same thing right now with Amnesty?

They'll tell us it's not Amnesty, when it is.

And they'll tell us that the border will be secured, when it won't.

And they'll tell us that the illegals will pay a fine and back-taxes, when they won't.

And the biggest lie of all: They'll tell us that the illegal immigration problem IS OVER FOREVER, which it won't be.

Posted by: Soothsayer, All Knowing Of (Approximate) Knowledge at November 14, 2014 04:40 PM (+f7H2)

415
These videos.

I question the timing.

Posted by: Meremortal at November 14, 2014 04:40 PM (1Y+hH)

416
These videos.

I question the timing.

Posted by: Meremortal at November 14, 2014 04:40 PM (1Y+hH)

417 Funny stuff.Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 14, 2014 04:38 PM (CMkNk)I read that every once in a while, it's hilarious

Posted by: The Jackhole at November 14, 2014 04:40 PM (6/J77)

418 399 You can bet this is just phase one of Hillary Care--they had this crap ready to roll since then.
Posted by: Your Friendly Danube River Guide at November 14, 2014 04:38 PM (RJMhd)


THIS.

All 2000 pages were there since at least 93 if not earlier. They started scrambling - and hence making mistakes like the severability clause omission - to edit it up to present day and voila. Instant nationalization of one sixth of the economy and life and death control over 315 million proles.

What's not to like?

I really hate these bastards.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 14, 2014 04:40 PM (CMkNk)

419 BC! For to be bringing me some pop!

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Now with extra taunting. at November 14, 2014 04:38 PM (mf5HN)


BC is off ogling KimK right now, my Queen.

Your requested pop.

..and a lemon square.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at November 14, 2014 04:41 PM (V+kmg)

420 I swear I only hit the button once.

But I still question the timing.

Posted by: Meremortal at November 14, 2014 04:41 PM (1Y+hH)

421 Senator Warner - As your vote helped to pass ACA, did you:
- Approve of the deliberate obfuscation of key elements?
- Know about or participate in this deceptive practice?
- If not, why did you cast your vote in support of something for which you were so unfamiliar?
--------------------------------
Because Harry Reid told him to. Simple really.

-
I vas only followink orders.

Posted by: The Great White Snark at November 14, 2014 04:41 PM (XUKZU)

422 and discourage bad behavior (childless renters).
Posted by: Bandersnatch


That's right. Yet another reason I am the single handed downfall of Western Civilization.
BC! For to be bringing me some pop!



What does childless homeowner equal?

Posted by: rickb223 at November 14, 2014 04:41 PM (AAJX/)

423 Brietbart would have been releasing these before the election.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at November 14, 2014 04:41 PM (39g3+)

424 "They simply adjusted the benefits to meet non-Cadillac limits. " And next year they'll have to adjust them again. And again the year after that. In 5 years, there are no plans that aren't "Cadillac" and all employees are forced off employer plans.
Posted by: Lauren at November 14, 2014 04:27 PM (BPMYx)


--------------------------------------------


And then the outcry. And then the rationing to cut costs. And then the "path to the fields of ambrosia". Then the limits on age and euthenasia.

Posted by: Soona at November 14, 2014 04:41 PM (toS2K)

425 There are innumerable lampposts around this nation that could use a little decorating right now...

Public health issue. I propose piano wire in elevator shafts to be the superior option.

Posted by: Broth-R-CVL at November 14, 2014 04:41 PM (zWC0k)

426 So in three years every Cimarron plan is considered a Cadillac plan?

Posted by: RioBravo at November 14, 2014 04:42 PM (SaMXZ)

427 Wowsers !
The opposition party could really tear them a new one over this ! I'm gonna make popcorn and watch !

Wait, what ?

Oh, yeah.

Posted by: sock_rat_eez, life member of the pro-dog party at November 14, 2014 04:42 PM (go6ud)

428 Unpossible.

You don't exist.
Posted by: Bandersnatch at November 14, 2014 04:40 PM (JtwS4)



Yeah. Tell that to the stupid beta meat sack.

Today's panther like reflex trick? Smashing myself in the face with a ream of paper.

Specialest. Snowflake. Evah.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Now with extra taunting. at November 14, 2014 04:42 PM (mf5HN)

429 408 I bet the flopsweat in the Obama Bunker is reaching retching levels about now.



Steiner!
--------------------------
Gruber's forces have been routed. Steiner is our only hope!

Posted by: Super Creepy Rob Lowe at November 14, 2014 04:42 PM (oDCMR)

430 REPEAL, REPLACE, IMPEACH

Posted by: Nevergiveup at November 14, 2014 04:42 PM (nzKvP)

431 Wait, did I just read a comment where the employee faces a tax on benefits for the money the employer pays towards the employee's cadillac health care plan?



Check your W2.

Posted by: rickb223 at November 14, 2014 04:42 PM (AAJX/)

432 Heads need to roll.

And I mean across the g_ddamned floor.

Posted by: THE TICK at November 14, 2014 04:42 PM (SOuy4)

433 I wonder if Sherrill will be baking a ham for the holidays. That turkey gives me the winds.

Posted by: Addison Mitchell McConnell, Jr. at November 14, 2014 04:42 PM (XzRw1)

434 409 Posted by: Sean Bannion at November 14, 2014 04:39 PM (V+kmg)


They'd only be flop-sweating if a) the law goes down in flames entirely and b) the old system, flawed as it was, is restored.

Option A could happen but how the hell do we get back to B if A occurs?

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 14, 2014 04:42 PM (CMkNk)

435 Well, after an exciting meeting of the LGBTXYZ and teenthies, Pride has now been moved back to its traditional week.

Posted by: RioBravo
-------------------

Why the conflict? Gheys suffer just as slaves did, right?

Posted by: LBGT LIV at November 14, 2014 04:43 PM (l1zOH)

436 Grubby needs to stop spitting from his mouth what I did not put there.

Posted by: Barky McPhuckstick at November 14, 2014 04:43 PM (bUmSq)

437
Romney couldn't attack ObamaCare, because of RomneyCare.
Posted by: ---



Today's Gruber thread over at HotAir is kinda fun in a sad way. Romneybots coming out of the woodwork to defend Der Mitt. Calling Gruber a minor player, saying Mitt was a victim who had to sign something* because the Dems had majorities and claiming Romneycare was working great, until Obama eff'd it up.

And so on.

Tres amuse.


*while Mitt could find his yes pen, his veto pen was like totally lost.

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at November 14, 2014 04:43 PM (kdS6q)

438 Yet another reason I am the single handed downfall of Western Civilization.

It's cool, there's two of us.

Posted by: HR needs donuts at November 14, 2014 04:43 PM (ZKzrr)

439

I suppose this might finally put the lid on Mary Landroo's box, which is nice.

Posted by: Soothsayer, All Knowing Of (Approximate) Knowledge at November 14, 2014 04:43 PM (+f7H2)

440 Will Obamacare fix my harpoon failure?

Posted by: Phinae at November 14, 2014 04:43 PM (sYUHT)

441 What does childless homeowner equal?

Posted by: rickb223 at November 14, 2014 04:41 PM (AAJX/)


Depends... do you still owe on your mortgage? If so the State will help you with a deduction on your interest...

If you actually OWN the place... well... property Tax Bub...

They say the Interest deduction is to get more people to buy homes... but if so, why is it tied to your DEBT, and not the cost of the Home?

Posted by: Romeo13 at November 14, 2014 04:44 PM (f0pWu)

442 I think part of the decline of "The Situation Room" has been Wolf Blitzer's decision to stop adding the line "... and how will this affect the President" to every story they covered.

Back during the Bush Administration, this line was a staple of every show, every story.

Now, not so much.

The stock market is down "... and how will this affect the President"
Iraqi insurgents attack again "... and how will this affect the President"
Freddie Mac under the outstanding leadership of Franklin Raines "... and how will this affect the President"

... but I haven't heard ...

VA scandal "... and how will this affect the President"
ObamaDoesn'tCare web site down "... and how will this affect the President"
Benghazi "... and how will this affect the President"
IRS scandal "... and how will this affect the President"
Fast and Furious "... and how will this affect the President"
Solyndra "... and how will this affect the President"
Gruber scandal "... and how will this affect the President"
Joe Biden is a jerk "... and how will this affect the President"

Posted by: Islamic Rage Boy at November 14, 2014 04:44 PM (e8kgV)

443 It should be remembered that Gruber is only a foot-soldier in Choom Boy's brigades.

It was our own celebrated President Historic FirstŠ who asked for, provided pressure to pass, and is ultimately responsible for the whole ChoomCare Plan. All of it. Every last fraud, every lie, every evasion.

And it is the Mocha Messiah who will, within weeks, add the burden of tens of millions of illegals to this, and every other, government operation.

Not Gruber.

So I don't care what this "Gruber" says. Why worry about a minor functionary when it is all part of President I Stand With Muslims's scheme?

It's easier, I guess. And doesn't have nearly the potential for Bad Optics, the way clamoring for some horribly racist and divisive thing like impeachment does. Only thing is: one way leads to ultimately accepting undeserved suffering for millions of Americans. Thge other might, conceivably, save us.

Posted by: MrScribbler at November 14, 2014 04:44 PM (PoKIA)

444 425 There are innumerable lampposts around this nation that could use a little decorating right now...

Public health issue. I propose piano wire in elevator shafts to be the superior option.
--------------------------
With shooting pits we solve two problems with one stone - teaching our betters to mind their own business and shovel ready jobs. Oh, a third, reducing global warming.

Posted by: Super Creepy Rob Lowe at November 14, 2014 04:44 PM (oDCMR)

445 Why the conflict? Gheys suffer just as slaves did, right?

-
In many ways, depriving gheys of wedding cakes is just like slavery.

Posted by: The Great White Snark at November 14, 2014 04:44 PM (XUKZU)

446 Posted by: Lauren at November 14, 2014 04:39 PM (BPMYx

Yes, well Chargemasters and their ilk are a problem as well.

Indeed, the entire purpose of a chargemaster is to scare the living shit out of the consumer to coerce them into paying a still higher than it should be rate (but feeling like they dodged a bullet.)

But I say this from experience: if you tell that to a group of Catholic Hospital executives (while making the argument that they should abandon chargemasters for price transparency) THEY WILL RUN YOU OUT ON A RAIL.

If only Christ were back to get rid of the fucking money changers with that whip of his.

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) And father to be in 2 months! at November 14, 2014 04:44 PM (HDwDg)

447
Will Obamacare fix my harpoon failure?

No, but Viagra will!

Posted by: Bob Dole at November 14, 2014 04:44 PM (JtwS4)

448
Will Obamacare fix my harpoon failure?

No, but Viagra will!

Posted by: Bob Dole at November 14, 2014 04:44 PM (JtwS4)

449 ! I'm gonna make popcorn and watch !

Cold stale popcorn sucks

Posted by: Jean at November 14, 2014 04:44 PM (TETYm)

450 What does childless homeowner equal?
Posted by: rickb223 at November 14, 2014 04:41 PM (AAJX/)


*checks chart*

Lemme see, lemme see, that makes you a fellow traveler.

I'll just pencil you in to bring Jell-o salad to the next meeting.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Now with extra taunting. at November 14, 2014 04:44 PM (mf5HN)

451 Huge Update: Where was Barack?

Why, leading the discussions on how to kill the health care plan tax exemption, of course!


This is what I expected to be on all the news last night.

I read this yesterday, and thought it to be THE smoking gun.

Last night? Crickets.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at November 14, 2014 04:45 PM (IXrOn)

452 We will have the Paul's over for holiday festivities. Anyone know what Rand smokes?

Posted by: Addison Mitchell McConnell, Jr. at November 14, 2014 04:45 PM (XzRw1)

453 397
Senator Warner - As your vote helped to pass ACA, did you:

- Approve of the deliberate obfuscation of key elements?

- Know about or participate in this deceptive practice?

- If not, why did you cast your vote in support of something for which you were so unfamiliar?



Posted by: goatexchange at November 14, 2014 04:37 PM (sYUHT)

Awesome. Stealing for Senators Cantwell and Murray (D) WA.

Posted by: flounder at November 14, 2014 04:45 PM (sDapq)

454 The government is dripping with Grubers

Posted by: The Jackhole at November 14, 2014 04:45 PM (6/J77)

455
In return, it graduates great masses of unemployable Grievance Studies majors saddled with immense levels of debt.....'cause they're ever-so-likely to become Republicans.

Posted by: cthulhu at November 14, 2014 04:29 PM (T1005)



I've been saying for a long time that we have been needing to nuke the finances of the socialist colleges for a very long time.



Cut their financial throats, then see how much trouble they can stir up.


Posted by: D-Lamp at November 14, 2014 04:45 PM (txvbW)

456
431 Wait, did I just read a comment where the employee faces a tax on benefits for the money the employer pays towards the employee's cadillac health care plan?



Check your W2.

Posted by: rickb223 at November 14, 2014 04:42 PM (AAJX/)


If over a certain threshold, and starts in 2018

Posted by: Romeo13 at November 14, 2014 04:45 PM (f0pWu)

457
They first gave me the rate for someone who has insurance, but a high deductible. $296.

I clarified that what I have is NOT insurance and I should be given the self pay rate. $45


Here's a major point of the bullshit: There aren't real prices.

What's the price of a doctor visit? Well, it depends what artificial rate they want it charged at.

The idea of 'expense+overhead+profit= price' doesn't apply here. It's a shellgame of obfuscation and price shifting.

But to the Big Brains like Gruber, it's perfectly natural, so the idea of paying the doctor in cash from a simple rate card is laughably naive and here come the millions of pages of regulations and camoflage and bureaucracy.

Posted by: --- at November 14, 2014 04:45 PM (MMC8r)

458 Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Now with extra taunting. at November 14, 2014 04:42 PM (mf5HN

Pff that's nothing. I punched myself in the fact last week trying to start the weed eater. loosened a tooth, fat lip, incredibly stupid.

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) And father to be in 2 months! at November 14, 2014 04:45 PM (HDwDg)

459
They say the Interest deduction is to get more people to buy homes... but if so, why is it tied to your DEBT, and not the cost of the Home?

That is an interesting point.

Posted by: Bandersnatch at November 14, 2014 04:46 PM (JtwS4)

460 Well, after an exciting meeting of the LGBTXYZ and teenthies, Pride has now been moved back to its traditional week.
.


That's a damn shame.

Posted by: HR needs donuts at November 14, 2014 04:46 PM (ZKzrr)

461 Loving the Flaming Skull, Ace!

Is Le Roi Bumfarht back on US soil yet? Or, let's reword: Has Le Roi soiled his bumfarht yet over Gruber?

I am sure they are working on the wording of the "mis-speaking" and "out of context" messaging. Pity about the videos and the now identified stupid Americans.

Posted by: ChristyBlinky at November 14, 2014 04:46 PM (dMEBN)

462 363 "18 I'm done. I'm going full Godwin and am calling this tool Goebbelsgruber from now on, or until I hear something wittier."


I hereby submit: "Gruebbels."

This one.

I'll go full Godwin and note that Hitler was democratically elected.

Posted by: fluffy at November 14, 2014 04:46 PM (Ua6T/)

463 What's the name of Romney's bitch over at the WaPo?

Posted by: Jean at November 14, 2014 04:46 PM (TETYm)

464 Gruber will come.

Posted by: Steiner at November 14, 2014 04:47 PM (evdj2)

465 It's happening already. I got health insurance after five years with none, thanks to the mere passing of Obamacare and the increases that my budget could not handle.
The new employer is killing it after 2015. Surprise! Not. And it's gone up 20%, but it beats the hell out of what it will cost me again in 2016. Scratch that. I'll be paying the penalty too, just like the employer because...it's. fucking.cheaper.

Posted by: DefendUSA at November 14, 2014 04:47 PM (nAHMK)

466

Play this, then ask the people on Live TV if the government should be shut down until Obama is out of office.

Show the people why if TFG pens a free pass to illegals why this is unconstitutional and that it is impeachable.

Time to start addressing the people on Live TV, at Prime
Time.

Otherwise, black holes.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at November 14, 2014 04:47 PM (IXrOn)

467 411 I'm hoping for the highest honor: sequined jock strap panties, with appropriate insignia of rank.
Posted by: Jay
---------------
Edited for ..., well, because I wanted to.
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at November 14, 2014 04:39 PM (l1zOH)



Mike, let's split the difference: sequined thong. Cool?

Posted by: Jay Guevara at November 14, 2014 04:47 PM (oKE6c)

468 What's the name of Romney's bitch over at the WaPo?

Jennifer Rubin?

Posted by: --- at November 14, 2014 04:47 PM (MMC8r)

469 They'd only be flop-sweating if a) the law goes down in flames entirely and b) the old system, flawed as it was, is restored. Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 14, 2014 04:42 PM (CMkNk)

No. No. No.

There is no amount of reality which will ever have an impact on them. No failure to great, no embarrassment too public. None.

Think of every liberal you've ever known, take their congenital disconnection from reality to the 23d power, and there you have every member of the Obama Administration.

They simply do not care.

We are proles, and a fuck they do not give.

We are their toys. If the experiment fails, there's still that cushy chair if Queer Theory at Harvard to be had.

They are sociopaths. Period.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at November 14, 2014 04:48 PM (V+kmg)

470 Y'all do understand that this won't make a bit of difference to the people who count?

And that's IF they're paying attention to it.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That at November 14, 2014 04:32 PM (KK+mC)



That's what I said. There is no deus ex machina.


Posted by: D-Lamp at November 14, 2014 04:48 PM (txvbW)

471
I'll go full Godwin and note that Hitler was democratically elected.

Not really. Led a party that had a plurality in the Reichstag. Got appointed Chancellor. Burned the Reichstag.

Posted by: Bandersnatch at November 14, 2014 04:48 PM (JtwS4)

472 I've been saying this about mandatory automobile
insurance for two decades. If the state feels that such a thing is
necessary, this service ought to be supplied by the state.





Mixing private industry up in what is an ostensible government requirement is just asking for moral hazards.







Posted by: D-Lamp at November 14, 2014 04:21 PM (txvbW)


No, you don't want the government to be the sole (or even one of the) provider(s) of auto insurance. Rates go up, and payments to injured parties go down, and getting any kind of result takes longer. And you cannot sue. Read about the history of grief with ICBC in British Columbia. I knew a woman who went there to work for ICBC, and she (illegally) kept an Alberta address and insured her truck there because it was vastly cheaper.

And liability insurance at least has to be mandatory, because that protects other users of the roads, not you. I don't mind if you hit the ditch, and get a broken neck and can't work, but if you run a light, and hit my car, and I get a broken neck and can't work, I don't want to be suing you to get a 1990 Escort and a single-wide.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at November 14, 2014 04:48 PM (7MWCL)

473 416


These videos.



I question the timing.

Posted by: Meremortal at November 14, 2014 04:40 PM (1Y+hH)

Yep. Said that yesterday. Couldn't be better timing for the 2016 elections.

Posted by: flounder at November 14, 2014 04:48 PM (sDapq)

474 462 363 "18 I'm done. I'm going full Godwin and am calling this tool Goebbelsgruber from now on, or until I hear something wittier."


I hereby submit: "Gruebbels."

This one.

I'll go full Godwin and note that Hitler was democratically elected.
-------------------------
And like Obama, he was an import.

Posted by: Super Creepy Rob Lowe at November 14, 2014 04:48 PM (oDCMR)

475 The monster at the end of the book was just me. Lovable, furry old Gruber.

Posted by: Lovable, furry old Gruber at November 14, 2014 04:49 PM (vgIRn)

476 Why are we implementing policies from a guy with a parrot on his shoulder?

FFS

Posted by: seems legit at November 14, 2014 04:49 PM (A98Xu)

477 Rubin, right. Gonna light her inbox up about Romney and $400M from Medicare?

Posted by: Jean at November 14, 2014 04:49 PM (TETYm)

478 Holy shit Harvard and MIT have a lot of dumbasses.

Are these really the people who are passed off as "really smart?"

Posted by: seems legit at November 14, 2014 04:32 PM (A98Xu)



It has long been my opinion that an Ivy League education means you are automatically disqualified from holding any position of power or influence.


Long history of incredible dumbasses coming from such institutions, and the worst of it is they never realize how stupid they are. Well, McNamara did at the last, sort of.

Posted by: D-Lamp at November 14, 2014 04:50 PM (txvbW)

479 471
I'll go full Godwin and note that Hitler was democratically elected.

Not really. Led a party that had a plurality in the Reichstag. Got appointed Chancellor. Burned the Reichstag.
-------------------------------
Do you not see any similarities with Obama shutting down the House once his party lost the leadership?

Posted by: Super Creepy Rob Lowe at November 14, 2014 04:50 PM (oDCMR)

480 Been a while since I saw a <font color="red"... Headline.

Posted by: garrett at November 14, 2014 04:50 PM (tVcxu)

481 Why are we implementing policies from a guy with a parrot on his shoulder?

FFS


I laughed out loud. Yarrr!

Posted by: toby928(C) at November 14, 2014 04:50 PM (evdj2)

482
If Schikelgruber had only kept his big pie-hole shut. But hubris will get you every time.

This is a BIG fucking deal all around. The Supremes better be paying attention but if past is prologue, I hold out no false hopes.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 14, 2014 04:50 PM (CMkNk)

483 430
REPEAL, REPLACE, IMPEACH

Posted by: Nevergiveup at November 14, 2014 04:42 PM (nzKvP)

. . . IMPRISON

Posted by: flounder at November 14, 2014 04:50 PM (sDapq)

484

We are the other people
We are the other people
We are the other people
You're the other people too
Found a way to get to you . . .

Do you think that I'm crazy?
Out of my mind?
Do you think that I creep in the night
And sleep in a phone booth?

Posted by: toby928(C) at November 14, 2014 04:51 PM (evdj2)

485 Did a search of NYT yesterday, searching for news re Grubergate. Nothing.

They are like my dog, scratching dirt over a poo.

Posted by: Mike Hammer,


They have a couple of stories now in the Politics section, FWIW.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at November 14, 2014 04:52 PM (/lTUs)

486 The Right Turn? Her blog is more illustrative of an idiot that drives for an hour with their right turn signal on.

Posted by: Jean at November 14, 2014 04:52 PM (TETYm)

487 Posted by: Sean Bannion at November 14, 2014 04:48 PM (V+kmg

Worse: if this experiment fails he'll still get tenured chair of Health Policy at Harvard.

Meanwhile Milton Fucking Friedman probably wouldn't get a job in today's academic environment.

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) And father to be in 2 months! at November 14, 2014 04:52 PM (HDwDg)

488 Flaming Skull Alert: Millions of poor Americans could lose their healthcare subsidies and be returned to desperate, uninsured status.

The Republicans must reject the extremists and work with the president to fix the ACA without destroying lives.

Posted by: Susan Olivia Cuthbertson-Klein at November 14, 2014 04:52 PM (Ks4nX)

489
The other thing if not obvious before, it wasn't just a campaign line, If you like your plan, you can keep your plan.... it was a knowing lie by Obama.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at November 14, 2014 04:52 PM (1nB6R)

490 Here's a great marketing idea:

The White House should use Ace's Flaming Skull as the logo for the upcoming Obamacare Death Panels.

Posted by: zombie at November 14, 2014 04:53 PM (K4YiS)

491

Lemme take a minute & tell you my plan
Lemme take a minute & tell who I am
If it doesn't show,
Think you better know
I'm another person

Do you think that my pants are too tight?
Do you think that I'm creepy?
Lemme take a minute & tell you my plan
Lemme take a minute & tell who I am
If it doesn't show
Think you better know
I'm another person
Better look around before you say you don't care
Shut your fuckin' mouth about the length of my hair
How would you survive
If you were alive
Shitty little person?

Posted by: toby928(C) at November 14, 2014 04:53 PM (evdj2)

492 They have a couple of stories now in the Politics section, FWIW.
Posted by: weft cut-loop at November 14, 2014 04:52 PM (/lTUs)


Ace's link tells me CNN thinks they may have found the missing airplane.

Posted by: jwb7605 at November 14, 2014 04:53 PM (ZALPg)

493 REPEAL, REPLACE, IMPEACH

Posted by: Nevergiveup at November 14, 2014 04:42 PM (nzKvP)

. . . IMPRISON
Posted by: flounder at November 14, 2014 04:50 PM (sDapq)

Thanks. Great addition

Posted by: Nevergiveup at November 14, 2014 04:53 PM (nzKvP)

494 That's a lot of money.

Gruber Has Made At Least $5.9 Million For Government Work http://dailycaller.com/2014/11/14/gruber-has-made-at-least-5-9-million-for-government-work/

Posted by: Costanza Defense at November 14, 2014 04:54 PM (ZPrif)

495 How bad is this?

They got Obama involved in it. He took time off from being pre-retired to pretend to listen to gruber.

Posted by: joe-impeachin44 at November 14, 2014 04:54 PM (bhwH/)

Posted by: Mitt Romney at November 14, 2014 04:54 PM (Qgr71)

497 Shut the Gov Down. If left unchecked what Fredo is doing will be the end of democracy in America as we know it. It IS as serious as that.

Posted by: Nevergiveup at November 14, 2014 04:54 PM (nzKvP)

498 Not really. Led a party that had a plurality in the Reichstag Republic. Got appointed Chancellor. Burned the Reichstag Republic.



That works.

Posted by: rickb223 at November 14, 2014 04:54 PM (AAJX/)

499 REPEAL, REPLACE, IMPEACH

Posted by: Nevergiveup at November 14, 2014 04:42 PM (nzKvP)

. . . IMPRISON
Posted by: flounder at November 14, 2014 04:50 PM (sDapq)

INSEMINATE.

Posted by: --- at November 14, 2014 04:55 PM (MMC8r)

500 REPEAL, REPLACE, IMPEACH



Posted by: Nevergiveup at November 14, 2014 04:42 PM (nzKvP)



. . . IMPRISON

Posted by: flounder at November 14, 2014 04:50 PM


After Steps One through Four are fully implemented: IGNORE.

That will hurt Choom Boy most of all.

Posted by: MrScribbler at November 14, 2014 04:55 PM (PoKIA)

501 Now, if we could only find a photo of Gruber wearing a loud Hawaiian shirt covered in bikini babes, we could finally get the public to sit up and take notice of this scandal!

Posted by: zombie at November 14, 2014 04:55 PM (K4YiS)

502 But CONTEXT?

Posted by: Jose La TaTa at November 14, 2014 04:56 PM (/nR7C)

503 497 Shut the Gov Down. If left unchecked what Fredo is doing will be the end of democracy in America as we know it. It IS as serious as that.
Posted by: Nevergiveup at November 14, 2014 04:54 PM (nzKvP)


The end of democracy in America ended with LBJ's "great society".

Posted by: jwb7605 at November 14, 2014 04:56 PM (ZALPg)

504 Now, if we could only find a photo of Gruber wearing a loud Hawaiian shirt covered in bikini babes, we could finally get the public to sit up and take notice of this scandal!

Social media has really loosed the restraints on idiocy.

Posted by: --- at November 14, 2014 04:56 PM (MMC8r)

505 The Republicans must reject the extremists and work with the president



Nope. WE WON.

Posted by: rickb223 at November 14, 2014 04:57 PM (AAJX/)

506
The Houston LGBTXYZ moved next years Pride parade from its historic route to one in/near the city center and moved it one week earlier. Ooops. That is the same time as the Juneteenth celebration. No. No. No. No. Well, after an exciting meeting of the LGBTXYZ and teenthies, Pride has now been moved back to its traditional week.

Posted by: RioBravo at November 14, 2014 04:38 PM (SaMXZ)



That's a shame. I can't think of a more useful juxtaposition. Blacks hate being compared to queers. They hate that the queers are using the old civil rights language too.


Getting elements of the Democrat party to fight amongst themselves is not a bad thing.


Posted by: D-Lamp at November 14, 2014 04:57 PM (txvbW)

507 At his next interview, Gruber will appear in blackface so that his defenders can call us all RACISTS! for attacking him.

Posted by: zombie at November 14, 2014 04:57 PM (K4YiS)

508
Well from context I think he was talking about the ability (as opposed to desire) to get rid of ObamaCare and he was probably right at that time. So his opinion has likely changed somewhat since then.

And yes I hate having to defend John McCain who I've been ready to see leave the political sphere since 2000.
Posted by: Maetenloch at November 14, 2014 04:36 PM (pAlYe

I've wanted him gone since the 90s. And with him ability and desire are not separate.

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at November 14, 2014 04:57 PM (vPh3W)

509 INSEMINATE.


Uh, great idea.

You drive that project.

Posted by: fluffy at November 14, 2014 04:57 PM (Ua6T/)

510 Gruber should wear the bee helmet.

Posted by: toby928(C) at November 14, 2014 04:57 PM (evdj2)

511
Speaking of impeachment, why not do it with a simple majority and via budget reconciliation?

Heh. Sauce for the commie goose.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 14, 2014 04:58 PM (CMkNk)

512 Shut the Gov Down. If left unchecked what Fredo is
doing will be the end of democracy in America as we know it. It IS as
serious as that.

Posted by: Nevergiveup at November 14, 2014 04:54 PM


Bitch McConnell, Johnny Boner and the "conservative" media, led by Poppin' Fresh, beg to differ with you.

What a terrible message it would send if people thought Republicans were actually going to stand up against lawlessness....

Posted by: MrScribbler at November 14, 2014 04:58 PM (PoKIA)

513 I agree with REPEAL IMPEACH & IMPRISON!

No replace, restore previous laws & while restoring previous laws Pre 1965 Immigration Law!

Posted by: Carol at November 14, 2014 04:58 PM (sj3Ax)

514 I wish they'd apply some of this ingenuity to dealing with,

They do, that's why all those are fcuked up too.

Posted by: DaveA at November 14, 2014 04:58 PM (DL2i+)

515

We are the other people
We are the other people
We are the other people
You're the other people too
Found a way to get to you

We are the other people
We are the other people
We are the other people
You're the other people too
Found a way to get to you

Do you think that I love you . . .
Stupid & blind?
Do you think that I dream through the night
Of holding you near me?

Lemme take a minute & tell you my plan
Lemme take a minute & tell who I am
If it doesn't show
Think you better know
I'm another person

Posted by: toby928(C) at November 14, 2014 04:58 PM (evdj2)

516 Peas, peas, peas, peas
Eating Gruber peas
Goodness, how delicious,
Eating Gruber peas

Posted by: Nanci Pelosi, with apologies to Carl Sandberg at November 14, 2014 04:58 PM (l1zOH)

517 >>The guy who's been finding these said that the worst was yet to come.

Just got here, haven't read the comments.

Is this the worst, or is the dude saying there's even worse?

I'm guessing this is what he was talking about...how much worse could it get? Obama cackling evilly about death panels or something??

Posted by: Mama AJ at November 14, 2014 04:59 PM (0xTsz)

518 510 Gruber should wear the bee helmet.
Posted by: toby928(C) at November 14, 2014 04:57 PM (evdj2)


Or just be forced to watch Nick Cage in it.

Posted by: Bob's House of Flannel Shirts and Wallet Chains at November 14, 2014 04:59 PM (vgIRn)

519
Serious question: Do you think the Jews in Austria and in Germany and the rest of the world used to say, Oh that Adolf Hitler, what a dummy!?

Do you think the Jews in the camps used to sit around and mock Hitler for being stupid?


obama and The Left have been perpetrating pure evil on us and yet we still say obama is dumb, Harvard is dumb, obama is incompetent, etc.

Posted by: Soothsayer, All Knowing Of (Approximate) Knowledge at November 14, 2014 04:59 PM (+f7H2)

520 495 How bad is this?

They got Obama involved in it. He took time off from being pre-retired to pretend to listen to gruber.
Posted by: joe-impeachin44 at November 14, 2014 04:54 PM (bhwH/)

Retouched photo of SCOAMF playing solitaire on his Blackberry as Shickelgruber talks in the background. Then he looks up and says, "wuzzat?"

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 14, 2014 04:59 PM (CMkNk)

521 Gruber should wear the bee helmet.

Mister Bee Natural

Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at November 14, 2014 04:59 PM (W5DcG)

522 I've wanted him gone since the 90s. And with him ability and desire are not separate.
Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at November 14, 2014 04:57 PM (vPh3W)


Bob Dole would agree but Bob Dole does not want competition selling Viagra.

Posted by: Bob Dole at November 14, 2014 04:59 PM (ZALPg)

523 I'll be surprised if any of this gets traction. That's what they were counting on, too.

Posted by: Jinx the Cat at November 14, 2014 05:00 PM (l3vZN)

524 Folks.... look up the legal definition of Fraud...

And the definition of Conspiracy....

Put them together...


This is JAIL TIME stuff...

Hmmm... thinking on it... there are STATE laws against both fraud and Conspiracy....

Texas maybe?

Posted by: Romeo13 at November 14, 2014 05:00 PM (f0pWu)

525 This is a BIG fucking deal all around. The Supremes better be paying attention but if past is prologue, I hold out no false hopes.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 14, 2014 04:50 PM (CMkNk)


------------------------------------------------


*sitting in a dark study tenderly going through the picture albums of his adopted children*

Posted by: John Roberts at November 14, 2014 05:00 PM (toS2K)

526 Is this the worst, or is the dude saying there's even worse?

In the next video, Gruber will be wearing scarlet robes and sacrificing a newborn to Obamus.

Posted by: toby928(C) at November 14, 2014 05:00 PM (evdj2)

527 516 Peas, peas, peas, peas
Eating Gruber peas
Goodness, how delicious,
Eating Gruber peas
Posted by: Nanci Pelosi, with apologies to Carl Sandberg


RAY-CISS!!

(Originally sung by the Georgia Militia in the Civil War.)

Posted by: zombie at November 14, 2014 05:00 PM (K4YiS)

528 obama and The Left have been perpetrating pure evil on us and yet we still say obama is dumb, Harvard is dumb, obama is incompetent, etc.

Posted by: Soothsayer, All Knowing Of (Approximate) Knowledge at November 14, 2014 04:59 PM (+f7H2)

---

Point taken. They are doing evil to this country, to its citizens. They also do a lot of very dumb things.

Posted by: seems legit at November 14, 2014 05:00 PM (A98Xu)

529 BTW, if anyone thought SCoaMF wasn't going to go hard for Amnesty before, just note how bad it's about to get.

Obamacare is yet again in the crosshairs. It's his baby. He needs the biggest SQUIRREL! in the history of rodentry to get people off the Obamacare Frankenstein analysis.

Enter Amnesty. SCoaMF couldn't wait even a week to flog it despite demanding that Congress needs to send him yet another GOP version of a bill from a GOP-controlled Congress not even seated. It's like his schedule was expedited for some reason.

I wonder what that reason could be? Well, while you're thinking, SQUIRREL!

Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at November 14, 2014 05:00 PM (1CroS)

530 Keep cryin', teabagging sister humpers! Bwa haaaa haa ha! What're you gonna do about it?! Ha!

Posted by: Barky McPhuckstick at November 14, 2014 05:02 PM (bUmSq)

531 There is always impeachment lite. Call the bastard before a committee, every day - for 18 hrs a day. Classify the session: no camera, no phones and park an intern in there to watch the bastards. Just make them sit there.

Tip would have done it. LBJ would have had them in the lean and rest all day.

Posted by: Jean at November 14, 2014 05:02 PM (TETYm)

532

There's a video, supposedly, of Gruber twisting his long mustache and laughing maniacally, Mwah-hah-hah!. I dunno if it's true.

Posted by: Soothsayer, All Knowing Of (Approximate) Knowledge at November 14, 2014 05:02 PM (+f7H2)

533 I'm rich, bitch!!

Posted by: Jon Gruber at November 14, 2014 05:02 PM (ZPrif)

534 In a triumph for humanity, 'conservationists' ( AKA 'Nazis'), have managed to ban hunting of coyotes in NE North Carolina.

Posted by: Nanci Pelosi, with apologies to Carl Sandberg at November 14, 2014 05:03 PM (l1zOH)

535 Oh well, I'm sure Obama meant well.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at November 14, 2014 05:04 PM (8ZskC)

536 524 Folks.... look up the legal definition of Fraud...
And the definition of Conspiracy....
Put them together...
This is JAIL TIME stuff...
Hmmm... thinking on it... there are STATE laws against both fraud and Conspiracy....
Texas maybe?
Posted by: Romeo13 at November 14, 2014 05:00 PM (f0pWu)


The key to this (IMAO) is to tie enough remaining Dem Senators (especially those up for election next time) to Gruber in order to muster enough votes to override a veto of the repeal effort.

I don't think it would be all that difficult. Two years of this stuff, and the Democrat party in general will look worse than the Republicans just after Nixon.

Posted by: jwb7605 at November 14, 2014 05:04 PM (ZALPg)

537 519
Serious question: Do you think the Jews in Austria and in Germany and the rest of the world used to say, Oh that Adolf Hitler, what a dummy!?

Do you think the Jews in the camps used to sit around and mock Hitler for being stupid?


obama and The Left have been perpetrating pure evil on us and yet we still say obama is dumb, Harvard is dumb, obama is incompetent, etc.

Posted by: Soothsayer, All Knowing Of (Approximate) Knowledge at November 14, 2014 04:59 PM (+f7H2)



Speaking from 2nd hand experience, people laughed at him but after '33 as the shit got worse, they did all they could to escape. As bad as things were, could anyone imagine the mass shootings into ditches and then the gas chambers? No. My mom's family was in Hungary and were the last Jews to be deported. Escapees came and told them what was going on but many accused them of fear mongering and refused to listen, though many did though really were already trapped. Even as the cars were unloaded at Auschwitz, a woman was told by a sonderkommando what was going to happen and she started screaming. The SS beat and tortured her until she told them who told her. They took the man and threw him alive into the ovens and then shot the woman on the spot as a warning.

People cannot imagine the inhumanity and the possibility and warning signs of things to come. It's just human nature/defense mechanism which sometimes can betray us.

PS:

(Thank you for closing the border, Cordell Hull and the State Dept.)

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 14, 2014 05:05 PM (CMkNk)

538 ...IMPEACH...IMPRISON...INSEMINATE

Insha'Allah

Posted by: SpongeBobSaget at November 14, 2014 05:05 PM (zauWW)

539 You racists just don't like being lied to and having your health insurance taken away by a black man.

Posted by: --- at November 14, 2014 05:05 PM (MMC8r)

540 What does childless homeowner equal?

Posted by: rickb223 at November 14, 2014 04:41 PM (AAJX/)


Double-plus ungood. You (and me) are depriving some family with children of a home. Because housing is a zero-sum game, doncha know?

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at November 14, 2014 05:05 PM (7MWCL)

541 Take #1: he sounds like a supervillain monologuing.

Take #2: none of this matters politically. Nobody who didn't care before will understand it now. It's too complicated for the people who think government handouts come from Obama's "stash."

Posted by: Truman North, Moron Emeritus at November 14, 2014 05:05 PM (7Oo+W)

542 Folks.... look up the legal definition of Fraud...

And the definition of Conspiracy....

Put them together...


This is JAIL TIME stuff...

Hmmm... thinking on it... there are STATE laws against both fraud and Conspiracy....

Texas maybe?
Posted by: Romeo13 at November 14, 2014 05:00 PM (f0pWu)

It's called a Rico prosecution: Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act

This group is no different than the Mafia except they are less honorable

Posted by: Nevergiveup at November 14, 2014 05:06 PM (nzKvP)

543
Is this the worst, or is the dude saying there's even worse?
Posted by: Mama AJ




http://youtu.be/qn1Yx1sojns


Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at November 14, 2014 05:06 PM (kdS6q)

544 >>Rubin, right. Gonna light her inbox up about Romney and $400M from Medicare?

You can but you'd be wrong. It came from the same fund every state in the union gets for hospitals.

Posted by: JackStraw at November 14, 2014 05:06 PM (g1DWB)

545
Meanwhile, in Iraq...

hey, so how's that whole "destroy" ISIS thing going?

I recall some idiot named joe biden vowing to follow [ISIS] to the gates of Hell.

Has biden reached Hell, yet?

Posted by: Soothsayer, All Knowing Of (Approximate) Knowledge at November 14, 2014 05:07 PM (+f7H2)

546 I don't think people understand this



Huge

Posted by: ThunderB at November 14, 2014 05:07 PM (vxBiS)

547 Yet another reason I am the single handed downfall of Western Civilization.


Told ya we should've put the switches higher on the dashboard.

Posted by: DaveA at November 14, 2014 05:07 PM (DL2i+)

548
Should I order Indian tonight or Mexican in honor of Luis "Frito Bandito" Gutierrez?

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 14, 2014 05:07 PM (CMkNk)

549 Has biden reached Hell, yet?
Posted by: Soothsayer, All Knowing Of (Approximate) Knowledge at November 14, 2014 05:07 PM (+f7H2)

No but his son Hunter snorted some last night

Posted by: Nevergiveup at November 14, 2014 05:08 PM (nzKvP)

550 Jack, what was Gruber gloating about?

Posted by: Jean at November 14, 2014 05:08 PM (TETYm)

551 All we need is Gruber laughing and admitting there are Death Panels and the critics have been vindicated 100%.

Posted by: --- at November 14, 2014 05:08 PM (MMC8r)

552
And liability insurance at least has to be mandatory, because that protects other users of the roads, not you. I don't mind if you hit the ditch, and get a broken neck and can't work, but if you run a light, and hit my car, and I get a broken neck and can't work, I don't want to be suing you to get a 1990 Escort and a single-wide.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at November 14, 2014 04:48 PM (7MWCL)


I advocate the state taking it over to teach insurance companies why they shouldn't make their product mandatory through state laws.



As for your injury argument, suppose I paralyzed you or killed one of your children. How much insurance money will it take to make this right?



I thought so.


Another point. "Prior restraint." You are holding me accountable for something I have not yet done, and something I may very well not do.


Another point. I have the financial means to pay as much money as the mandatory insurance requirements. Why do I still have to pay for insurance when I can pay any claims myself and directly?


Posted by: D-Lamp at November 14, 2014 05:08 PM (txvbW)

553 Point taken. They are doing evil to this country, to its citizens. They also do a lot of very dumb things.
Posted by: seems legit at November 14, 2014 05:00 PM (A98Xu)


---------------------------------------


What seems dumb to us is purpose to them. As I've always said, never ever underestimate your enemy.

How many things are considered mainstream acceptable to so many people now would have been hysterically laughed at 9-10 years ago.

Posted by: John Roberts at November 14, 2014 05:09 PM (toS2K)

554 You know who this benefits?

Could someone let me know if you find out?

Posted by: hugh hewitt at November 14, 2014 05:09 PM (FdlTq)

555 RAY-CISS!!

(Originally sung by the Georgia Militia in the Civil War.)
Posted by: zombie
---------------------------
A little-known, rare duet by prominent racists Johnny Cash & ..., wait for it...., Burl Ives

http://tinyurl.com/o8z7sne

Posted by: Nanci Pelosi, with apologies to Carl Sandberg at November 14, 2014 05:09 PM (l1zOH)

556 D-lamp, what are those numbers?

Posted by: Jean at November 14, 2014 05:09 PM (TETYm)

557 Yet another reason I am the single handed downfall of Western Civilization.

It's cool, there's two of us.


No spouse, no kids, looking after elderly parent. Save a seat at the party and keep the booze flowin', ladies.

Posted by: Broth-R-CVL at November 14, 2014 05:09 PM (zWC0k)

558 This will all be old news once the Ferguson race riots break out everyewhere on Monday...

Posted by: The Grand Jury's Hat at November 14, 2014 05:10 PM (lN8KC)

559 off sad sock

Posted by: Soona at November 14, 2014 05:10 PM (toS2K)

560 551 All we need is Gruber laughing and admitting there are Death Panels and the critics have been vindicated 100%.
Posted by: --- at November 14, 2014 05:08 PM (MMC8r)


The fucking guy doesn't have to admit jack shit because it's all there in black and white.

But coming out of his cake-hole does make the point stick. And the revelation that SCOAMF was in on the meeting and actively participating is murder!

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 14, 2014 05:10 PM (CMkNk)

561 J.J. Sefton,

Screw that POS Gutierrez, go with Indian.

Posted by: Carol at November 14, 2014 05:10 PM (sj3Ax)

562
Escapees came and told them what was going on but many accused them of fear mongering and refused to listen,...

...

Posted by: Soothsayer, All Knowing Of (Approximate) Knowledge at November 14, 2014 05:10 PM (+f7H2)

563 And like Obama, he was an import.

Posted by: Super Creepy Rob Lowe at November 14, 2014 04:48 PM (oDCMR)


He was Austrian, not German.


We don't actually know what Obama is, and he might not even be a statutory American citizen.


Of course if we'd followed that "natural born citizen" rule, he wouldn't have even been allowed to run for the office.


You cannot be a "natural citizen" if it requires an man made law to make you into a citizen.


Posted by: D-Lamp at November 14, 2014 05:10 PM (txvbW)

564 >>Jack, what was Gruber gloating about?

Who knows. He's a hard core Dem and he also has been taking shots at Romney for years. He was one of the first to claim Obamacare and Romneycare are the same in order to do exactly what has been happening. They aren't the same plan. I've had both.

His contribution to Romneycare was the models, same as he has provided to other states like Wisconsin, West Virginia, Vermont, etc..

He's a scummy douche bag that lies, obviously.

Posted by: JackStraw at November 14, 2014 05:11 PM (g1DWB)

565 561 J.J. Sefton,

Screw that POS Gutierrez, go with Indian.
Posted by: Carol at November 14, 2014 05:10 PM (sj3Ax)

But I really want a burrito? How about a quesadilla vindaloo?

Actually, wifey wants me to order Indian.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 14, 2014 05:11 PM (CMkNk)

566 558 This will all be old news once the Ferguson race riots break out everyewhere on Monday...
Posted by: The Grand Jury's Hat at November 14, 2014 05:10 PM (lN8KC)

I've already passed out a dozen "I am Darren Wilson" wristbands.

Posted by: Jean at November 14, 2014 05:11 PM (TETYm)

567 How many things are considered mainstream acceptable to so many people now would have been hysterically laughed at 9-10 years ago.
Posted by: John Roberts
--------------

* scratches head *

I dunno. Maybe paying to add lady parts to a traitorous Army PFC?

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at November 14, 2014 05:11 PM (l1zOH)

568 Actually, wifey wants me to order Indian.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton
------------

Dots, or arrows?

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at November 14, 2014 05:12 PM (l1zOH)

569 Double-plus ungood. You (and me) are depriving some family with children of a home. Because housing is a zero-sum game, doncha know?



Fuck 'em.

Posted by: rickb223 at November 14, 2014 05:12 PM (AAJX/)

570 Um, if you were paying close attention to all of this from the very beginning of O's presidency, this is not a surprise. There were healthcare panels that discussed these issues. Gruber is actually being honest in disclosing how and why it was all done.

Posted by: ObamaCare stealthfighter at November 14, 2014 05:12 PM (x8Wor)

571 All the videos need to be linked and sent to one's Reps in the House and Senate.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at November 14, 2014 05:12 PM (QlprU)

572
"They own the media, the schools and the bureaucracy. And these are all good things to have."

- - Tom Hagen as Tea Party consigliere

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 14, 2014 05:13 PM (CMkNk)

573 Silver linings, of sorts: If Roberts had shit-canned this PoS when he had the chance. we'd probably not have all this nice material to rifle through to prove we conservatives were right all along.

Yeah. I'm not congratulating Roberts on his eleventy-dimensional chess playing because I don't think this was his deliberate plan, but if O-care would have been nuked by five right-leaning Supremes before the LIVs had a chance to see how corrupt, deceitful and awful it really was, the Dems would have been gifted the best of all possible worlds. The stinking albatross carcass of O-care would have been removed from their collective necks, while leaving them a license to demagogue the holy shit out of the fact that "hateful conservatives stole the poor peoples' health care. "

This probably could not have played out better for conservatives. These Gruber videos have exposed the entire filthy mess just as the Supreme Court has agreed to hear King v. Burwell. America has never been angrier about having this steaming shitpile of legislation dumped on them (but just wait until next June!), giving political cover to Roberts and other weak sisters on the court to pull the trigger and kill the beast.

While it's impossible to be sure, I'm beginning to think this is gonna be great.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at November 14, 2014 05:13 PM (8ZskC)

574 This will all be old news once the Ferguson race riots break out everyewhere on Monday...

Posted by: The Grand Jury's Hat


Not at 28degreesF, they're not.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at November 14, 2014 05:13 PM (/lTUs)

575 I punched myself in the fact last week trying to start the weed eater.

Be glad it wasn't the chain saw.

Posted by: Stumpy at November 14, 2014 05:13 PM (DL2i+)

576 This will all be old news once the Ferguson race riots break out everyewhere on Monday...
Posted by: The Grand Jury's Hat at November 14, 2014 05:10 PM (lN8KC)

Actually that is no joke, it is true

Posted by: Nevergiveup at November 14, 2014 05:14 PM (nzKvP)

577 568 Actually, wifey wants me to order Indian.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton
------------

Dots, or arrows?
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at November 14, 2014 05:12 PM (l1zOH)


Kentucky Fried Redskins?

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 14, 2014 05:14 PM (CMkNk)

578 Then we don't let it be old news. We bring it up again and again by calling or e-mailing Reps regularly.
And save the videos for when they go down the memory hole.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at November 14, 2014 05:14 PM (QlprU)

579 Mike Hammer,
Are you still officially banned & hiding behind fake IP address?

Posted by: Carol at November 14, 2014 05:14 PM (sj3Ax)

580 This will all be old news once the Ferguson race riots break out everyewhere on Monday...

Posted by: The Grand Jury's Hat

Not at 28degreesF, they're not.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at November 14, 2014 05:13 PM (/lTUs)


That's what the burning store-fronts are for...

Posted by: The Grand Jury's Hat at November 14, 2014 05:14 PM (lN8KC)

581 Another point. I have the financial means to pay as much money as the mandatory insurance requirements. Why do I still have to pay for insurance when I can pay any claims myself and directly?


Posted by: D-Lamp
----------------

Some states allow the posting of a bond, I believe.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at November 14, 2014 05:14 PM (l1zOH)

582 478



It has long been my opinion that an Ivy League education means you
are automatically disqualified from holding any position of power or
influence.


Wait. What?


Posted by: George W Bush at November 14, 2014 05:14 PM (XzRw1)

583 "They own the media, the schools and the bureaucracy. And these are all good things to have."

- - Tom Hagen as Tea Party consigliere
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 14, 2014 05:13 PM (CMkNk)

It's not personal, It's just politics

Posted by: Nevergiveup at November 14, 2014 05:14 PM (nzKvP)

584
The end of democracy in America ended with LBJ's "great society".

Posted by: jwb7605 at November 14, 2014 04:56 PM (ZALPg)



I also mark that as the point at which our system of governance was most badly damaged, perhaps fatally.


But in fairness, I will point out that what LBJ did was a perfectly reasonable response to the passage of the 24th amendment.


Northeastern Republicans were the ones pushing it. They expected to acquire a massive windfall of newly enfranchised voters. LBJ flipped the script on them and stole their newly enfranchised voters.


They have been voting Democrat ever since. Indeed, it is probably what has kept Democrats in power for so very long.


Posted by: D-Lamp at November 14, 2014 05:15 PM (txvbW)

585 576 This will all be old news once the Ferguson race riots break out everyewhere on Monday...
Posted by: The Grand Jury's Hat at November 14, 2014 05:10 PM (lN8KC)

Actually that is no joke, it is true
Posted by: Nevergiveup at November 14, 2014 05:14 PM (nzKvP)


I had that in the low 90's. At least 3 news cycles since you know that several cities are gonna get rocked.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 14, 2014 05:15 PM (CMkNk)

586 Bob Beckel is such a jealous fat ass.

Posted by: thathalfrican at November 14, 2014 05:15 PM (R5HRU)

587 Why do all of you hate persons of color ????????????

Posted by: Jenny Stienum at November 14, 2014 05:15 PM (Sd++4)

588 We re all talking about how the liberal media isnt really covering this and while this is quite true, Im asking myself: what about the conservative media? We ve just been through an election and this stuff would have been ad-gold. Why did this remain hidden for an entire campaign season?

So while I can understand that the liberal media have no interest in researching and publishing this, where the hell were the conservative media folks and Republican opposition researchers?

Posted by: Red Widow at November 14, 2014 05:15 PM (kjdpt)

589 Posted by: zombie at November 14, 2014 04:55 PM (K4YiS)

Thanks for the laugh. Much appreciated. ;^)

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at November 14, 2014 05:15 PM (QlprU)

590 The RNA in the turd I just dropped has a greater capacity to grok this than the MFM and the average voter. It's meaningless to any swing voter.

Posted by: Truman North, Moron Emeritus at November 14, 2014 05:16 PM (7Oo+W)

591 308
Why is TFG doing a townhall in Burma? WTF?


Posted by: Lizzy at November 14, 2014 04:25 PM (ABcz/)

In a perfect world, it would be because he was in exile.
Posted by: flounder at November 14, 2014 04:31 PM (sDapq)

Sharing his worldview and lecturing the Burmese on how to run their country. I'm sure he is admonishing them for not allowing gay marriage, and for not reducing their CO2 output.

Posted by: Jen at November 14, 2014 05:16 PM (hjTr7)

592 Mike Hammer,
Are you still officially banned & hiding behind fake IP address?
Posted by: Carol
---------------------

Carol - I am indeed. Yestrday marked 5 months here in Camp Banhammer. It is wearying. It also denies Ace the clicks, because of proxy blocking.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at November 14, 2014 05:17 PM (l1zOH)

593 Carol - As pathetic as it is, that means 400 or so fewer clicks each week for the site.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at November 14, 2014 05:17 PM (l1zOH)

594 anyone done an ancestry search on this schickelgruber guy?

Posted by: Yusuf Islamic Jihad at November 14, 2014 05:18 PM (KHo8t)

595 594 anyone done an ancestry search on this schickelgruber guy?
Posted by: Yusuf Islamic Jihad at November 14, 2014 05:18 PM (KHo8t)


He looks and sounds authentically Cherokee, to me.

Posted by: jwb7605 at November 14, 2014 05:19 PM (ZALPg)

596 590 The RNA in the turd I just dropped has a greater capacity to grok this than the MFM and the average voter. It's meaningless to any swing voter.
Posted by: Truman North, Moron Emeritus


Ah but the DNA in your turd is omniscient! So it evens out.

Posted by: zombie at November 14, 2014 05:19 PM (K4YiS)

597 Another point. I have the financial means to pay as much money as the mandatory insurance requirements. Why do I still have to pay for insurance when I can pay any claims myself and directly?


Posted by: D-Lamp
----------------

Some states allow the posting of a bond, I believe.
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at November 14, 2014 05:14 PM (l1zOH)

You can simply pay the "tax" and forego the insurance. Remember the Supreme Court said you cannot be forced to buy the insurance with the threat of jail, but you can pay the tax. And if you don't pay the tax, you can go to jail.

It's all so very confusing.....

Posted by: Jen at November 14, 2014 05:19 PM (hjTr7)

598 Carol - I am indeed. Yestrday marked 5 months here in Camp Banhammer.

Yet you are still able to get messages out. This skill may come in handy in the camps.

Posted by: Thin veneer of civility at November 14, 2014 05:19 PM (XzRw1)

599 D-Lamp, send me $25,000.

Posted by: Truman North, Moron Emeritus at November 14, 2014 05:20 PM (B68Ng)

600 588
We re all talking about how the liberal media isnt really covering this
and while this is quite true, Im asking myself: what about the
conservative media? We ve just been through an election and this stuff
would have been ad-gold. Why did this remain hidden for an entire
campaign season?



So while I can understand that the liberal media have no interest in
researching and publishing this, where the hell were the conservative
media folks and Republican opposition researchers?

Posted by: Red Widow

+1

Why in the HELL did we not here about this before the last election, it would have added at least 2 more Senate seats.

It seems pretty obvious to me every Republican political operative should have been following the architect of Obamacare around with a camera when he was giving syposiums.


Posted by: McAdams at November 14, 2014 05:21 PM (MABF1)

601 Seriously. Send me $25,000.

Posted by: Truman North, Moron Emeritus at November 14, 2014 05:21 PM (B68Ng)

602 39 Conservatives need to drop out of the insurance scheme. Join a health share.

Most have some sort of religious element that I know disqualifies some of the horde, but Liberty Health Share does not.

Here are the ones I know of. (Full disclosure: We use Christian Healthcare Ministries and are very happy. )

Liberty Health Share
Christian Healthcare Minsitries
Samaritan Ministries
MediShare


My family has been with Samaritan Ministries since 2002 are have been very happy as well. The biggest plus the last few years is knowing we were exempt from Obamacare. It's been nice not to be *personally* stressed about Obamacare.

Posted by: Jonathan Gruber at November 14, 2014 05:21 PM (Plx/u)

603 McAdams: it's worse than that. There were cameras already and this stuff was already online and available. And we all missed it.

Posted by: Truman North, Moron Emeritus at November 14, 2014 05:22 PM (B68Ng)

604 Sorry, didn't mean to post comment #602 as Jonathan Goober.

Posted by: parteagirl at November 14, 2014 05:22 PM (Plx/u)

605 556 D-lamp, what are those numbers?

Posted by: Jean at November 14, 2014 05:09 PM (TETYm)



In my state I think it's 25\50\25.



It's certainly not enough to pay for death or paralysis, nor even a serious injury.


Posted by: D-Lamp at November 14, 2014 05:23 PM (txvbW)

606 Mike Hammer
Did you send IP address to
Maetenloch? He asked a few months ago but in same email he said Pixy hadn't replied in two months.

Pixy has been working on blog. Send IP address to Maetenloch.

Posted by: Carol at November 14, 2014 05:23 PM (EZ5IY)

607 Nothing new here - still lying.

Anyone really think an MIT economist thinks young and healthy are gonna pay for the old and inform? The young and healthy are in debt to their eyebrows, the old paid off their mortgages buy new sedans every year and have accumulated a lifetime of savings. You get the money from those who have it - old middle class people.

Barrack was the only one to tell the truth - granny ain't gonna be spending that $100,000 she saved working her whole life for a new hip, not worth it, Granny gonna get the pill.

Posted by: Burnt Toast at November 14, 2014 05:23 PM (NaeCR)

608 Seriously. Send me $25,000.
Posted by: Truman North, Moron Emeritus at November 14, 2014 05:21 PM (B68Ng)


------------------------------------------


It's in the mail. The USPS guaranties delivery.

Posted by: Soona at November 14, 2014 05:23 PM (toS2K)

609 Yet you are still able to get messages out. This skill may come in handy in the camps.

Posted by: Thin veneer
-------------

Yeah, well.., I've explained this before. I have to smuggle messages out. It's not so difficult, because most of the guards are Serb ex-pats who pretty much despise Clinton, so we have something in common.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at November 14, 2014 05:24 PM (vPh3W)

610 And what's up for the R's..."BRING BACK EARMARKS"...eleventy!!!!!

Posted by: getonwidit at November 14, 2014 05:24 PM (TiTon)

611 Replies inserted:

I advocate the state taking it over to teach
insurance companies why they shouldn't make their product mandatory
through state laws.



- I don't care if insurance companies want mandatory liability insurance for drivers. I want mandatory insurance for drivers, so that I can be recompensed if some idiot driver causes me loss.






As for your injury argument, suppose I paralyzed you or killed one
of your children. How much insurance money will it take to make this
right?



- no amount will make me (or my hypothetical child) whole again, but several million dollars might enable me to get a powered wheelchair, and a handicap van, and at least be able to have some semblance of a life.






I thought so.





Another point. "Prior restraint." You are holding me accountable
for something I have not yet done, and something I may very well not
do.



- It's something that you and me, and all of us are at risk of doing, every time we take the wheel of an auto. All it takes is a momentary lapse of attention, and you (or I) becomes the bad guy in an at-fault accident.




Another point. I have the financial means to pay as much money as
the mandatory insurance requirements. Why do I still have to pay for
insurance when I can pay any claims myself and directly?



- cool. Proof of financial responsibility. Say, by posting a 2 million dollar bond? Go for it. Large corporations and government agencies can do it, why not you? If you want to tie up that much capital in a low-interest bond, be my guest.






Posted by: D-Lamp at November 14, 2014 05:08 PM (txvbW)

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at November 14, 2014 05:24 PM (7MWCL)

612 He's here right at same time every day!

Posted by: Carol at November 14, 2014 05:25 PM (EZ5IY)

613
But coming out of his cake-hole does make the point stick. And the revelation that SCOAMF was in on the meeting and actively participating is murder!

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 14, 2014 05:10 PM (CMkNk)


Not really.



Nobody is going to believe he even understood what was happening, let alone contributed anything to it.


As Rush Limbaugh has said: "When Obama enters a room, he is always the least qualified person in it, and it doesn't matter what the subject is either."


Posted by: D-Lamp at November 14, 2014 05:25 PM (txvbW)

614 Granny gonna get the pill.
Posted by: Burnt Toast
------------------

Maybe..., maybe not.

Posted by: Zeke Emanuel at November 14, 2014 05:25 PM (vPh3W)

615 Yeah, well.., I've explained this before. I have to smuggle messages out. It's not so difficult,



it's just where you have to put them.....

Posted by: rickb223 at November 14, 2014 05:26 PM (AAJX/)

616 607 Mike Hammer
Did you send IP address to
Maetenloch? He asked a few months ago but in same email he said Pixy hadn't replied in two months.
Pixy has been working on blog. Send IP address to Maetenloch.
Posted by: Carol at November 14, 2014 05:23 PM (EZ5IY)


Actually if it's the one ending in 47, I already have it and can re-ping pixy now that he's responsive again.

Free if you're a Premium member otherwise the standard service fee will be billed to your paypal account.

Posted by: Maetenloch at November 14, 2014 05:26 PM (pAlYe)

617 Reminder: Sarah Palin was warning us about all the stuff Gruber admits to - and media called her the stupid one for not being fooled.

Posted by: @votermom at November 14, 2014 05:27 PM (FrceM)

618 Also, count me in on the just say Eff NO to taxing healthcare benefits.

Posted by: @votermom at November 14, 2014 05:28 PM (FrceM)

619 In a triumph for humanity, 'conservationists' ( AKA 'Nazis'), have managed to ban hunting of coyotes in NE North Carolina.

Posted by: Nanci Pelosi, with apologies to Carl Sandberg at November 14, 2014 05:03 PM (l1zOH)

Whereas in Utah you can shoot them and get paid for it! Because here they are correctly recognized as varmints.

Posted by: LizLem at November 14, 2014 05:28 PM (yRwC8)

620 Maetenloch,
I typed your name & you just appeared, like magic!
I suspect you're using that BanHanner.

Posted by: Carol at November 14, 2014 05:29 PM (sj3Ax)

621 Did you send IP address to
Maetenloch? He asked a few months ago but in same email he said Pixy hadn't replied in two months.

Pixy has been working on blog. Send IP address to Maetenloch.
Posted by: Carol
-----------------

Yes, Maet has it. I promised myself that I would hold out for 6 months without bothering anyone.

Lately, there have been enough *real* problems with the site without me pestering anyone, so I'll just hold out for a while longer.

Posted by: Zeke Emanuel at November 14, 2014 05:29 PM (vPh3W)

622 Gruber reminds me of an amiable con man who is so stuck on himself, that while in a bar, to curry favor, with a hot chick he discusses his latest heist. Only to find out that the hot chick is a cop.

Posted by: redenzo at November 14, 2014 05:30 PM (WCnJW)

623 Mike
Take off Zeke sock!

Posted by: Carol at November 14, 2014 05:30 PM (sj3Ax)

624 621 Sock fail

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at November 14, 2014 05:30 PM (vPh3W)

625 602
39 Conservatives need to drop out of the insurance scheme. Join a health share.


I'm looking at it seriously, I own my own business and the coming rates that I'm seeing are absurd. I don't even consider what I have now to be real health insurance, it's basically just bankruptcy protection if a family member got cancer or got in a car wreck.

My concern with some of the health share plans is how are things like doctor's visits treated? Do most health care providers give you the discounted "insurance" rate when you have that coverage? I could see most just making you pay a cash rate because they don't recognize it. Just don't want a hassle everytime my kid goes to the doctor.

Posted by: McAdams at November 14, 2014 05:31 PM (MABF1)

626 Whereas in Utah you can shoot them and get paid for it! Because here they are correctly recognized as varmints.
Posted by: LizLem
-----------------------------
One is left to ponder the difference between faux conservation 'activists' and coyotes.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at November 14, 2014 05:32 PM (vPh3W)

627 Just to set the table here: It is widely, almost universally, acknowledged that not taxing insurance policies is a bad idea that leads to distortions and inefficiencies (and incidentally is a case of the government picking "winners and losers," and dictating what form employee payments should take).

So as a general matter, I think we'd probably like to get rid of the tax exempt status for health care benefits.


We would? Universally?

Pull your head out. There is a problem: some medical expenses are tax-exempt, others are not. One solution is to make them all taxable; another would be to make them all tax deductible. I have a strong suspicion (the kind I would wager big money on), that if you were to ask people which would be the better solution, the vast majority would say let's make all medical expenses tax deductible.

Maybe I'm wrong; maybe a whole lot of people would love it if their employer-provided insurance plans lost their tax exempt status and meant that someone (either their employer or more likely, they themselves) would now have to fork over money to pay the tax on these plans. But I seriously doubt it.

Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at November 14, 2014 05:32 PM (IN7k+)

628 Maetenloch,
I typed your name & you just appeared, like magic!
I suspect you're using that BanHanner.


MUMR's around, it's on sentry mode.

Posted by: Broth-R-CVL at November 14, 2014 05:32 PM (zWC0k)

629 >>>Why do all of you hate persons of color ????????????<<<

We don't. Drop your panties, Jenny, and we'll prove it to you.

Posted by: Fritz at November 14, 2014 05:32 PM (dVmLD)

630
Some states allow the posting of a bond, I believe.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at November 14, 2014 05:14 PM (l1zOH)



Wherein they keep your money and don't pay you interest.


At the current interest rates, this is actually not that bad of an idea, and I have been contemplating it.



But why does exercising your right to utilize the public ways require conditions that are not replicated in any other area of law?

If I start a campfire and it accidentally burns down a bunch of houses, should I have to have insurance prior to the fact of lighting a campfire?


If I am riding a horse and it steps on someone's foot, should I have to have insurance for this prior to the fact?


If I throw a rock and it hits someone, should I have to have insurance prior to the fact?


In ordinary civil claims, you pay for injuries you cause AFTER you cause them, not before.


Some people chose to have insurance for these sorts of things, but there is no law compelling them to do so.


Posted by: D-Lamp at November 14, 2014 05:33 PM (txvbW)

631 Okay I just sent an email off to pixy.

Posted by: Maetenloch at November 14, 2014 05:33 PM (pAlYe)

632 In a triumph for humanity, 'conservationists' ( AKA 'Nazis'), have managed to ban hunting of coyotes in NE North Carolina.

Posted by: Nanci Pelosi, with apologies to Carl Sandberg at November 14, 2014 05:03 PM (l1zOH)

Wait to hear the wails of grief when the cute little coyotes start ripping apart Little Fifi let out in the yard to tinkle.
I've lost barn cats to coyotes and have found fresh deer carcasses torn up from them. Hunting them with the AR is rather satisfying.

Posted by: Jen at November 14, 2014 05:34 PM (hjTr7)

633 I downloaded 2000 page bill in summer of 2009. Betsy has the most knowledge of it & has her own website now.

Posted by: Carol at November 14, 2014 05:34 PM (sj3Ax)

634 MUMR must come home from the day center at 5pm.

Posted by: Jen at November 14, 2014 05:35 PM (hjTr7)

635 622
Gruber reminds me of an amiable con man fudge packer.

Posted by: Thin veneer of civility at November 14, 2014 05:36 PM (XzRw1)

636 627
Just to set the table here: It is widely, almost universally,
acknowledged that not taxing insurance policies is a bad idea that leads
to distortions and inefficiencies (and incidentally is a case of the
government picking "winners and losers," and dictating what form
employee payments should take).


I agree, but it's incredibly stupid when Republicans go after popular, middle class tax breaks.

McCain promising to tax employees that had "good" health insurance plans was beyond retarded.

It's the same when I hear say Paul Ryan promising to end the mortgage deduction. I understand all the distortions, but Democrats would love nothing more than the GOP to be the political party that's goes after popular middle class tax breaks in some quest for purity.

Posted by: McAdams at November 14, 2014 05:37 PM (MABF1)

637 Maet - Thanks..., but I do fear that I will lose the dispensations granted to sympathetic figures.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at November 14, 2014 05:39 PM (vPh3W)

638 nood.

Posted by: rickb223 at November 14, 2014 05:40 PM (AAJX/)

639 @McAdams

I think I agree with you, but the italicized portion of my comment (which you quoted) was a quote from Ace's post. I disagree with increasing taxes on those who have employer based insurance. I would rather see all medical expenses become tax deductible, perhaps with a standard deduction for those who don't want to bother with itemizing.

Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at November 14, 2014 05:44 PM (IN7k+)

640
- I don't care if insurance companies want mandatory liability insurance for drivers. I want mandatory insurance for drivers, so that I can be recompensed if some idiot driver causes me loss.



But my argument is that you don't have a right to impose such a requirement on me, nor does the government.


As for your loss, when *YOU* get on the road, *you* are deliberately putting yourself at the risk of death or horrible loss. Losses so severe that you cannot possibly be compensated for them.


You consent to such risk. Your desire to minimize your potential losses does not give you a right to preclude me from using the public ways because it suits your preference.



- no amount will make me (or my hypothetical child) whole again, but several million dollars might enable me to get a powered wheelchair, and a handicap van, and at least be able to have some semblance of a life.



You won't be able to afford such a thing under the minimum insurance laws of my state. If you do not have some alternative to the pittance you will get, then you are well and truly boned.


How about you just recognize that you put yourself at risk when you get in an environment where high speed vehicles are whizzing past?


If you don't wish to take such a risk with your life or property, why shouldn't it be you that must stay off the roads?





- It's something that you and me, and all of us are at risk of doing, every time we take the wheel of an auto. All it takes is a momentary lapse of attention, and you (or I) becomes the bad guy in an at-fault accident.


Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at November 14, 2014 05:24 PM




And insurance changes the likelihood that you will have an accident? If it does, I dare say it is for the worse. As with health insurance, people are much more willing to take risks so long as they know someone else will foot the bill for mistakes.








Posted by: D-Lamp at November 14, 2014 05:46 PM (txvbW)

641 D-Lamp: A request....

Can you please not put so many line breaks in your comments. It makes it harder to scan and read the comments.

Posted by: Maetenloch at November 14, 2014 05:50 PM (pAlYe)

642 Here we go again (sigh):


But why does exercising your right to utilize the
public ways require conditions that are not replicated in any other area
of law?



- because the public ways are both very crowded, and because the nature of vehicular transport is such that minor inattention can lead to tragic and costly consequences.


If I start a campfire and it accidentally burns down a bunch of
houses, should I have to have insurance prior to the fact of lighting a
campfire?



- No, but you had better have your life insurance paid up.




If I am riding a horse and it steps on someone's foot, should I have to have insurance for this prior to the fact?



- No. If I am standing that close to a horse, I am at least partly to blame for what happens. And a crushed foot may be painful, and temporarily incapacitating, but it rarely amounts to huge tragedy.




If I throw a rock and it hits someone, should I have to have insurance prior to the fact?



- No. I don't think you can buy insurance that would protect you from the consequences of an overt criminal act on your part. And if the rock-throwing was an accident, I'd expect the resulting losses to be small enough that you could pay them.




In ordinary civil claims, you pay for injuries you cause AFTER you cause them, not before.



- when you buy liability insurance, you are buying protection against being sued for your entire net worth. You might get sued, anyway, but if your insurance pays the damages to the injured party, it becomes less likely that such a suit would be launched.




Some people chose to have insurance for these sorts of things, but there is no law compelling them to do so.



- so you want to be just like the illegal alien? No drivers license, no insurance, no responsibility? Kewl.






Posted by: D-Lamp at November 14, 2014 05:33 PM (txvbW)

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at November 14, 2014 05:53 PM (7MWCL)

643 Can you please not put so many line breaks in your comments. It makes it harder to scan and read the comments.

Posted by: Maetenloch at November 14, 2014 05:50 PM (pAlYe)


Habit. I thought it makes it easier to read. I'll try to keep it in mind.


Posted by: D-Lamp at November 14, 2014 05:53 PM (txvbW)

644
TFG held a townhall in Burma was met with protests signs of fake.
..............
Was he wearing pajamas and chewing gum?

Posted by: wth at November 14, 2014 05:53 PM (wAQA5)

645 639.

Yea, I think that would be a fair compromise that could get political support.

If Obamacare state exchanges get struck down, Republicans should really push for something like that.

I just think sometimes conservatives throw away political support to attain goals that are really small in comparison. The health care market is always going to be distorted, taking away a popular way Americans get their health insurance seems to be more about making an obscure point than anything.

Same with housing, taking away the mortgage deduction seems to me to be a great way to stir up a hornet's nest more than "fixing" the tax code.

Posted by: McAdams at November 14, 2014 05:53 PM (MABF1)

646 We can't invade Normandy; the Germans will only fight back.

Posted by: Mitch McConnell circa WWII at November 14, 2014 05:57 PM (lJLML)

647 Poor President Obama was trying to help all of us and somebody lied to him about the ACA. So it is not his fault that he was lied to before he signed the bill. Bush lied intentionally and you did nothing about that !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: Jenny Stienum at November 14, 2014 06:00 PM (Sd++4)

648 If you order authentic Indian be sure to get a side of raw buffalo fat. Yummy!
Special occasion? Organ variety plate. Love that thin sliced liver.

Posted by: Man from Wazzustan at November 14, 2014 06:07 PM (0atFl)

649 Gruber's in trouble?

RELEASE THE KARDASHIAN!

Posted by: sulla at November 14, 2014 07:33 PM (+1vYq)

650 Awesome. Stealing for Senators Cantwell and Murray (D) WA
**************
I love the fact that you are optimistic that either of these ladies have more than a couple of working brain cells between them. Please keep me posted as to any kind of response that you get. My bets are on Marie hiding out in a mansion somewhere and Patty busy looking at clocks in to stop them.

Posted by: dwagyak at November 14, 2014 11:10 PM (J5+BW)

651 Sorry if this has already been mentioned in the comments (or already performed and I missed it), but I wonder if it would be feasible for someone like, say, Matthias Turing (@politicalmath) to reasonably accurately project the rate of health care cost increases based on past years. Then apply that over time to the tax kick-in to show this graphically. I'd love to have a brief narrated video of this.

Posted by: somethingfishie at November 14, 2014 11:32 PM (iy2lM)

652 Is there any evidence that normal people are seeing or hearing any of this?

This is the smoking gun.

Yet once again the media hides it as though it were unimportant that we have been lied to for the past 6 years without stop!!!

Why is it so hard to fight this corrupt media?

Posted by: petunia at November 15, 2014 01:28 AM (0r5UB)

653 Where were these videos during the past couple elections?!?! Why now only after the damage has been done? As if the commie-in-chief is going to repeal his own law because the lies and deceit used to pass it (which some of us at least saw through for all the good it did) got exposed.

Posted by: Daniel at November 15, 2014 08:54 AM (xTgSv)

654 40% tax? So when does the government take all of our money and just dole out an allowance?

Posted by: Ruth at November 15, 2014 01:30 PM (E+JEO)

655 or we could just fill out our tax returns with the same Gruber level of honesty. why would anyone want to be the chump in a fundamentally dishonest relationship?

Posted by: X at November 16, 2014 08:49 AM (KHo8t)

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