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J.J. Sefton:
sefton at cutjibnewsletter.com
Oh Boy: In Jon Gruber's Newest (Sixth) Video, He Explains How Obama and Democrats Conspired to Get Rid of Tax Exemptions for All Insurance Plans Without Anyone Noticing
The guy who's been finding these said that the worst was yet to come. I've had my eyes out.
"It turns out politically it's really hard to get rid of," Gruber said. "And the only way we could get rid of it was first by mislabeling it, calling it a tax on insurance plans rather than a tax on people when we all know it's a tax on people who hold those insurance plans." (The White House press secretary said at a press briefing in 2010: "I would disagree with your notion that it is a tax on an individual since the proposal is written as a tax on an insurance company that offers a plan.") The second way was have the tax kick in "late, starting in 2018. But by starting it late, we were able to tie the cap for Cadillac Tax to CPI, not medical inflation," Gruber said. CPI is the consumer price index, which is lower than medical inflation.Incidentally, this will also be a backdoor tax hike on the middle class, even if employers stop providing insurance. Instead, employers will cancel insurance and pay them somewhat increased wages -- but those wages will be taxed, which their health plan benefits had not been. Armageddon. Armageddon. It's time to repeal this monstrosity cooked up by socialist serial liars. Huge Update: Where was Barack? Why, leading the discussions on how to kill the health care plan tax exemption, of course!
Gruber explains that by drafting the bill this way, they were able to pass something that would initially only impact some employer plans though it would eventually hit almost every employer plan. And by that time, those who object to the tax will be obligated to figure out how to come up with the money that repealing the tax will take from the treasury, or risk significantly adding to the national debt. "What that means is the tax that starts out hitting only 8% of the insurance plans essentially amounts over the next 20 years essentially getting rid of the exclusion for employer sponsored plans," Gruber said. "This was the only political way we were ever going to take on one of the worst public policies in America." Unions and employers who object in 2018, he noted, "at that point if they want to get rid of it they're going to have to fill a trillion dollar hole in the deficit...It's on the books now."
Comments
(Jump to bottom of comments)Posted by: EC at November 14, 2014 03:43 PM (GQ8sn)
Posted by: Bob's House of Flannel Shirts and Wallet Chains at November 14, 2014 03:43 PM (vgIRn)
Posted by: Great Moments in Presidential Oratory at November 14, 2014 03:43 PM (Tj+s6)
Posted by: EC at November 14, 2014 03:43 PM (GQ8sn)
Posted by: Burn the Witch at November 14, 2014 03:44 PM (xSCb6)
While I agree that not taxing plans is a crazy distortion brought on by FDR and his shit.
Taxing plans creates another problem: it would allow your employer to saddle you with a tax burden over which you have no control. This is also bad.
If the taxes fall entirely on the employee, the employer has no benefit to offering a variety of plans (at a variety of costs.)
Indeed, the paperwork would be simpler to just offer one plan (and while it might be low cost by chance that really just depends on how much coverage the people making the decision want, and they may be less sensitive to a tax than say...a janitor.)
Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) And father to be in 2 months! at November 14, 2014 03:45 PM (HDwDg)
Posted by: AMDG at November 14, 2014 03:45 PM (eFytx)
just like his idol Tedster Kennedy's fucking AMT....
"bracket creep"....
Donks "punish the rich" and define rich down...
Posted by: Sven S Blade a.k.a. El Assassin@sven10077 at November 14, 2014 03:45 PM (/4AZU)
Well he also demagogued HRC's plan for an individual mandate. Methinks he just basically lied.
Posted by: SH at November 14, 2014 03:46 PM (gmeXX)
Posted by: no good deed at November 14, 2014 03:46 PM (w3a0Z)
Posted by: Muad'dib - Bodice Repair Man at November 14, 2014 03:47 PM (sjdRT)
----
??? You don't have to accept the benefits.
Posted by: SH at November 14, 2014 03:47 PM (gmeXX)
Great fun was had in '07-'08 pointing out the media essentially allowed Ogabe to campaign to the left AND right of Hillary and McCain....
Posted by: Sven S Blade a.k.a. El Assassin@sven10077 at November 14, 2014 03:47 PM (/4AZU)
You either accept your employer plan or you buy subpar Federal insurance...
not a lot of wiggle room there.
Posted by: Sven S Blade a.k.a. El Assassin@sven10077 at November 14, 2014 03:48 PM (/4AZU)
"we only did this stupid charade because you wouldn't let us have single payer like every other non-neanderthal country in the world. So NOW will you let us have single payer ??"
Posted by: McCool at November 14, 2014 03:48 PM (nCSwS)
Posted by: Bob's House of Flannel Shirts and Wallet Chains at November 14, 2014 03:48 PM (vgIRn)
By a complicit media. Complicit by their willful ignorance. Trusting their betters.
The very stupid people Gruber was referring to.
Posted by: Burn the Witch at November 14, 2014 03:48 PM (xSCb6)
Anyway, it's a bit rich listening to Obama lecture Burma on "democracy" when Obama himself is so utterly cynical. To Barky and Goebbelsgruber, democracy is something to be subverted and exploited to get people like Barky in - Soro charge. Obama doesn't want democracy in Burma; he wants a client state for his true masters - Soros etc.
Posted by: boulder terlit hobo at November 14, 2014 03:48 PM (FdlTq)
Melissa Francis worked for CNBC. Criticized Obamacare -- not the politics, just the math, said it didn't add up -- CNBC execs called her on the carpet, complained she was "disrespecting" Obama, demanded she stop.
Gasparino relays an even worse story of GE CEO Jeff Immelt calling a meeting with all the top anchors and execs to discuss whether they were "being fair" to Obama.
Charles Gasparino @CGasparino 40m
.@MelissaAFrancis: I was silenced by CNBC and i add my 2 cents @foxbusiness... http://fb.me/3l9g7dTHr
Posted by: Costanza Defense at November 14, 2014 03:48 PM (ZPrif)
And the only way we could get rid of it was first by mislabeling it.
It's striking how often Gruber can be taken out of context to make it sound like he's orchestrated the biggest lies since Goebbels.
*happy dances for flaming skull*
Posted by: Bandersnatch at November 14, 2014 03:48 PM (JtwS4)
Posted by: toby928(C) at November 14, 2014 03:48 PM (evdj2)
Posted by: Wendy at November 14, 2014 03:49 PM (KydDZ)
So. Basically every single thing the fever swamp conspiracy freaks on the Right said about ACA is being confirmed by the guy who wrote it.
Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Now with extra taunting. at November 14, 2014 03:49 PM (mf5HN)
Posted by: SH at November 14, 2014 03:46 PM (gmeXX)
That's right.
He pissed on everyone else's plan and then turned around and adopted them.
Kinda like how he said he hated all the money in politics, but then declined public funding when his $1 billion in campaign contributions flowed in.
Posted by: EC at November 14, 2014 03:49 PM (GQ8sn)
not really better, though it's not as bad as it was on Wednesday.
But this is a huge story-- possibly the biggest story on Obamacare, ever -- so I can manage to write a few words.
Posted by: ace at November 14, 2014 03:49 PM (/FnUH)
Posted by: EC at November 14, 2014 03:49 PM (GQ8sn)
Posted by: A dude in MI at November 14, 2014 03:49 PM (o2Jt2)
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 14, 2014 03:49 PM (CMkNk)
You should read those links I sent you. They are from left wing sites and writers and they were talking about the deceptive practices that Gruber and the White House were using to sell Obamacare back in 2010. It was all planned and now the plan is unraveling.
And it wasn't $400k. Gruber was given, often in no-bid contracts, almost $800K from various federal agencies in 2009.
Posted by: JackStraw at November 14, 2014 03:49 PM (g1DWB)
Posted by: rickb223 at November 14, 2014 03:49 PM (AAJX/)
Posted by: BIG ALFREDO at November 14, 2014 03:49 PM (iWo0u)
Excuse me... but the entire Tax code is ALL about picking winners and losers.
Its just that THIS particular one, helps those in the middle to upper classes pay less tax... instead of their 'Fair share' which is MORE than those who leach off the system.
You 'Universally Acknowledged' is like Man Made Global Warming's 'consensus'....
Posted by: Romeo13 at November 14, 2014 03:50 PM (f0pWu)
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 14, 2014 03:50 PM (CMkNk)
Posted by: Anonymous Asswipe at November 14, 2014 03:50 PM (ne2fm)
Posted by: nraendowment at November 14, 2014 03:50 PM (Msv+6)
Getting the government involved distorts markets, man. Their solution is more of the problem.
Posted by: --- at November 14, 2014 03:50 PM (MMC8r)
It wasn't rocket surgery it was just paying attention to what they sent to CBO at the time.
This was always about control and taxes.
Posted by: Sven S Blade a.k.a. El Assassin@sven10077 at November 14, 2014 03:50 PM (/4AZU)
Well I guess in theory you don't have to.
Although my previous place of employment makes it virtually impossible to opt out of. I have to show proof of other insurance (IIRC at every open enrollment.)
I'm not sure how but they managed to make "having insurance" a requirement to work there.
And by totally fucking up the private market, ObamaCare hasn't really helped find outside insurance.
Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) And father to be in 2 months! at November 14, 2014 03:50 PM (HDwDg)
Most have some sort of religious element that I know disqualifies some of the horde, but Liberty Health Share does not.
Here are the ones I know of. (Full disclosure: We use Christian Healthcare Ministries and are very happy. )
Liberty Health Share
Christian Healthcare Minsitries
Samaritan Ministries
MediShare
Posted by: Lauren at November 14, 2014 03:51 PM (BPMYx)
Posted by: Citizen X at November 14, 2014 03:51 PM (7ObY1)
not a lot of wiggle room there.
---
I get that. I was just pointing out that your employer was not saddling you with a tax burden.
I like the idea of taxing health insurance benefits as compensation because I think it should be untethered from your job. But I at least recognize that is unpopular and I would be honest about it. McCain's plan was more palatable though I'm not a fan of tax credits.
Posted by: SH at November 14, 2014 03:51 PM (gmeXX)
Posted by: Mallamutt, RINO President of the Sheena Easton Fan Club at November 14, 2014 03:51 PM (OWjjx)
Posted by: John McCain at November 14, 2014 03:51 PM (kFxpe)
Posted by: A dude in MI at November 14, 2014 03:51 PM (o2Jt2)
Posted by: RioBravo at November 14, 2014 03:51 PM (SaMXZ)
It's so cute that you think that will be done.
How'z my ass taste now, bitches!?!!?
Posted by: King Barack I, Lion of Hyde Park, Keeper of the Holy Sites of Punahou and Harvard at November 14, 2014 03:52 PM (V+kmg)
Posted by: IllTemperedCur at November 14, 2014 03:52 PM (TIIx5)
Ya been took!
Ya been hoodwinked!
Bamboozled!
Led astray!
Run amok!
This is what He does....
Posted by: blaster at November 14, 2014 03:52 PM (Rx8ML)
Schicklgruber?
Posted by: rickb223 at November 14, 2014 03:52 PM (AAJX/)
Posted by: toby928(C) at November 14, 2014 03:48 PM (evdj2)
They saw through this right fucking away, and were working to have themselves exempted.
The media just sorta ignored that. Conveniently.
Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) And father to be in 2 months! at November 14, 2014 03:52 PM (HDwDg)
Posted by: Kreplach at November 14, 2014 03:52 PM (bKSy7)
I want to see a bounty put on Gruber's head.
I said it.
Posted by: EC at November 14, 2014 03:52 PM (GQ8sn)
The ACA is a tax law.
We repeal tax laws all the time.
Deal with it.
_
Fuck the premise of their argument.
Fuck it like the chicken it is.
_
Posted by: BumperStickerist at November 14, 2014 03:52 PM (4CVLy)
Who the fuck was doing Romney's oppo research?
Oh, right, it was probably Jon Gruber.
Posted by: Costanza Defense at November 14, 2014 03:53 PM (ZPrif)
Some of us talked about this VERY ISSUE, prior to this monster passing...
None of the things Gruber has said is NEW...
The only NEW thing is that he admitted that we were correct all along.
Posted by: Romeo13 at November 14, 2014 03:53 PM (f0pWu)
2ndly, I say we grab all of these monkey butt fuckers and string them up.
Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at November 14, 2014 03:53 PM (l1zOH)
Posted by: Ace at 03:41 PM
Ace; How fast can you get on an Acela train straight to Mitch McConnell? I just know he wants to chat about this.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 14, 2014 03:53 PM (CMkNk)
Excuse me... but the entire Tax code is ALL about picking winners and losers.
Well, yeah. And I know who I'm talking to here, romeo, but for the bleachers people we should get rid of all of it. Mortgage interest, kids, health insurance deductions.
I hate the government using the tax code to dictate what it considers good behavior and it's useless anyway. Mrs. Bandersnatch did not decide to whelp twice for a tax credit.
Posted by: Bandersnatch at November 14, 2014 03:53 PM (JtwS4)
Posted by: The Chicken at November 14, 2014 03:53 PM (B/VB5)
Posted by: Jonathan Gruber at November 14, 2014 03:53 PM (DLu2s)
I gotta think that after the first one came out, the word went around to the lefty web sites to take them all down ?!?!
Posted by: McCool at November 14, 2014 03:53 PM (nCSwS)
I called Grube & left him nasty message Tuesday. I posted his phone here & he's probably got a new number now.
Posted by: Carol at November 14, 2014 03:53 PM (sj3Ax)
Posted by: ghost of hallelujah at November 14, 2014 03:53 PM (7RXcs)
I said it.
Posted by: EC at November 14, 2014 03:52 PM (GQ8sn)
WHOA THERE....only the Black Panthers can do that sort of thing..
Posted by: Just Us Dept. at November 14, 2014 03:53 PM (o2Jt2)
Ok, here's why you should really join a health share. Gruber HATES them.
"The whole goal of health-care reform is to ensure that people are protected against risk and illness, and this violates that fundamental goal," said John Gruber, an MIT economics professor and the director of the health care program at the National Bureau of Economic Research. He also served as a technical consultant to the Obama administration on the Affordable Care Act."
Posted by: Lauren at November 14, 2014 03:53 PM (BPMYx)
Posted by: Jenny Stienum at November 14, 2014 03:53 PM (Sd++4)
I'm pretty sure he was just on speed dial, but point taken....
Mitt was a bad choice and the reason I argued against him was based on his writing the rough draft for Ogabecare
Posted by: Sven S Blade a.k.a. El Assassin@sven10077 at November 14, 2014 03:54 PM (/4AZU)
He's basically Ed Norton's character in The Italian Job.
Posted by: Burn the Witch at November 14, 2014 03:54 PM (xSCb6)
At this rate by next Tuesday we'll have video of him Wheel of MisFortuning a death panel.
Posted by: DaveA at November 14, 2014 03:54 PM (DL2i+)
----
Or the GOP president in 2016. The Dems badly miscalculated on Obamacare. They have paid a huge political price for that miscalculation, and it isn't going to survive anyway. Good job Obama.
Posted by: SH at November 14, 2014 03:54 PM (gmeXX)
Posted by: RioBravo at November 14, 2014 03:54 PM (SaMXZ)
******
They always do things by incrementalization.
Right now they ay people are happy with ObamaCare--which is complete bullshit--it hasn't been fully implemented yet--and the effects of the bill cannot be known.
Also look at that date--
2018.
After the elect Hillary.
(le deluge).
Posted by: Your Friendly Danube River Guide at November 14, 2014 03:54 PM (RJMhd)
This thing is like a full-body migraine.
Ouch, ouch, ouch.
Posted by: Piercello at November 14, 2014 03:54 PM (JybVy)
Posted by: Chief Justice John Roberts at November 14, 2014 03:55 PM (OWjjx)
I said it.
Posted by: EC at November 14, 2014 03:52 PM (GQ8sn)
What, a roll of paper towels? I think Nancy Walker is available (and dead).
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 14, 2014 03:55 PM (CMkNk)
To hell with impeachment. Pitchforks and torches.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton
May I bring 1/2" hemp rope to the party as well?
Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at November 14, 2014 03:55 PM (l1zOH)
Posted by: Thin veneer of civility at November 14, 2014 03:55 PM (XzRw1)
Posted by: Golfman in NC at November 14, 2014 03:56 PM (wVWRM)
The ACA does nothing to "protect against illness."
And to the extent it "protects against risk" it does so in a hamfisted way that prevents me from setting my own risk tolerance.
Exactly how is this guy an "expert?" FFS, I know more than he does about this. (OK, that's kinda unfair)
Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) And father to be in 2 months! at November 14, 2014 03:56 PM (HDwDg)
I've already seen the photoshop of Gruber's head on the scientist's pinup girl shirt clad body. Perhaps it will generate some outrage. :/
Posted by: no good deed at November 14, 2014 03:56 PM (w3a0Z)
Some of us read and pointed out the AMT parallels, the fact it did none of the things it claimed that the unions were getting preferential for their caddy plans...
none of it matters people bought Ogabe doing his Vince Offer routine.
Posted by: Sven S Blade a.k.a. El Assassin@sven10077 at November 14, 2014 03:56 PM (/4AZU)
Posted by: Chilling the most at November 14, 2014 03:56 PM (wWs6x)
Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at November 14, 2014 03:56 PM (l1zOH)
And they were so proud of themselves for having passed this monstrosity by deception and skullduggery.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Obama_signs_health_care-20100323.jpg
Posted by: flounder at November 14, 2014 03:56 PM (sDapq)
Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at November 14, 2014 03:55 PM (l1zOH)
Cool!
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 14, 2014 03:56 PM (CMkNk)
Posted by: brak at November 14, 2014 03:56 PM (Tj+s6)
Who the fuck was doing Romney's oppo research?
Oh, right, it was probably Jon Gruber.
---
Maybe nominating the guy who implemented Obamacare 1.0 was not the best idea.
But time is also proving that Obamacare had not fully ripened with the American public in terms of their disgust. It is only get less popular.
Posted by: SH at November 14, 2014 03:57 PM (gmeXX)
Posted by: ever at November 14, 2014 03:57 PM (hRV3r)
Posted by: Chief Justice John Roberts at November 14, 2014 03:55 PM (OWjjx)
To be fair, he did kind of see through the Gruber smokescreen. Whether that was the main driver for his ruling, we'll never know, but that's something.
Posted by: AMDG at November 14, 2014 03:57 PM (eFytx)
Posted by: WSJ and Chamber of Commerce at November 14, 2014 03:57 PM (W5DcG)
We need to turn him over to the Ukrainian mafia.
Posted by: Wendy at November 14, 2014 03:57 PM (KydDZ)
Exactly how is this guy an "expert?" FFS, I know more than he does about this. (OK, that's kinda unfair)
Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) And father to be in 2 months! at November 14, 2014 03:56
So do my Irish Setters
Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at November 14, 2014 03:57 PM (l1zOH)
Posted by: toby928(C) at November 14, 2014 03:57 PM (evdj2)
How, in a just system... can you be forced to pay a Tax, on money that the Government then says you must use to Buy a Product, the Government Controls?
The entire system is designed to make it virtually impossible for an employer to give their employees health insurance...
But then penalizing them for not doing so.
It is BUILT to FAIL.
Posted by: Romeo13 at November 14, 2014 03:57 PM (f0pWu)
If I believed in conspiracies, I'd say that the next big and lasting news cycle will be the coming race riots in Ferguson and probably several other major cities.
That should distract us for at least several weeks.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 14, 2014 03:57 PM (CMkNk)
Posted by: ever at November 14, 2014 03:57 PM (hRV3r)
Yeah, I fully expect them to get some sort of waiver.
Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) And father to be in 2 months! at November 14, 2014 03:57 PM (HDwDg)
Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian
Piano wire.
Posted by: rickb223 at November 14, 2014 03:57 PM (AAJX/)
...mislabeling it, calling it a tax on insurance plans rather than a tax on people when we all know it's a tax on people who hold those insurance plans."
This is important to note because this is exactly the same template for deception the Left uses for everything.
For instance, they accuse their opponents for denying people access to health care when WE ALL KNOW the disagreement is over taxpayers paying for other people's health care.
Or denying access to birth control when WE ALL KNOW it's about paying the bill for other people's birth control.
Posted by: Soothsayer, All Knowing Of (Approximate) Knowledge at November 14, 2014 03:57 PM (+f7H2)
Posted by: Chilling the most at November 14, 2014 03:57 PM (wWs6x)
Posted by: Lester at November 14, 2014 03:57 PM (2UPXV)
Holy hell! These words. came. out. of. this. guy's. mouth.
Posted by: Heralder at November 14, 2014 03:58 PM (/Mxso)
Posted by: Anonymous Asswipe at November 14, 2014 03:58 PM (ne2fm)
By design.
Posted by: toby928(C) at November 14, 2014 03:58 PM (evdj2)
If only we had Obama's words about targeting conservatives directly to the IRS. You know he did.
Posted by: artisanal 'ette at November 14, 2014 03:58 PM (IXrOn)
that's cute that you think the GOP is gonna do that
Posted by: The Dude at November 14, 2014 03:58 PM (SyKbw)
Posted by: Marvel-ing at the Stupidity of it all at November 14, 2014 03:58 PM (m2yGo)
Posted by: Carol at November 14, 2014 03:58 PM (sj3Ax)
'Cause Gruber's right about one thing, there's a right fat lot of idiots out there who prefer not to know what's going on.
Posted by: JEM at November 14, 2014 03:58 PM (o+SC1)
Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) And father to be in 2 months! at November 14, 2014 03:57 PM (HDwDg)
Which will be a fine precedent for President Walker.
Posted by: AMDG at November 14, 2014 03:59 PM (eFytx)
Wheel a laptop with a surround sound system wired to it into the fucking courtroom and have at it.
Posted by: B at November 14, 2014 03:59 PM (oHWN4)
76 May I bring 1/2" hemp rope to the party as well?
Yes. No six foot drops either. Use the lift method.
Posted by: Thin veneer of civility at November 14, 2014 03:59 PM (XzRw1)
Posted by: AMDG at November 14, 2014 03:57 PM (eFytx)
It doesn't matter what Roberts believed the intention of the legislature was. The only thing that mattered was is it constitutional or not. It wasn't, and he should have killed it right there in June of 2012.
But he sucks ass.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 14, 2014 03:59 PM (CMkNk)
It's an Achilles Heel of the pathologically criminal class. They can't help themselves.
I look forward to the period where a truly responsible, representative government shackles the A-hole for his corruption. For Gruber's own good, of course.
Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at November 14, 2014 03:59 PM (1CroS)
Posted by: WSJ and Chamber of Commerce at November 14, 2014 03:57 PM (W5DcG)
Recent study.... 41% of the Medicaid Increase were 'mostly' (their term) immigrants.
So now lets add another 5-10 Million... by Obama Amnesty Executive order....
Posted by: Romeo13 at November 14, 2014 03:59 PM (f0pWu)
Posted by: Burn the Witch at November 14, 2014 03:59 PM (xSCb6)
Posted by: rickb223 at November 14, 2014 03:57 PM (AAJX/)
Damn, I have all this rope on hand. Now I'll have to venture into the city and go shopping.
Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at November 14, 2014 03:59 PM (l1zOH)
Posted by: The Great White Snark at November 14, 2014 03:59 PM (XUKZU)
83
I want Gruber facing <s>congressional hearings</s> federal pound-me-in-the-ass prison time.
FTFY
Posted by: Joe Mama at November 14, 2014 03:59 PM (m2yGo)
Posted by: Jon Stewart at November 14, 2014 03:59 PM (OWjjx)
I can help...for a price.
Posted by: Banker #3 of the Five Jew Bankers at November 14, 2014 03:59 PM (4/i9Y)
Posted by: SH at November 14, 2014 03:47 PM (gmeXX)
----------------------------------------
Then you pay the penalty.....er......tax for non-participation. And those penalties....er.....tax tripled this year.
Posted by: Soona at November 14, 2014 03:59 PM (toS2K)
Who the fuck was doing Romney's oppo research?
Oh, right, it was probably Jon Gruber.
Romney couldn't attack ObamaCare, because of RomneyCare.
Posted by: --- at November 14, 2014 03:59 PM (MMC8r)
The House has already voted to do it 40+ times. The Senate will do it when McConnell takes over.
And Obama will veto it.
Posted by: JackStraw at November 14, 2014 03:59 PM (g1DWB)
In short, except for knowing why your ass hurts, what does this really change?
Posted by: Lokki at November 14, 2014 04:00 PM (xeE49)
so john roberts is vindicated by this?
Posted by: kj at November 14, 2014 04:00 PM (lKyWE)
And at the rate everyone's plan are increasing due to this POS law everyone will be on a Cadillac plan within a few years.
What is ironic about this is that health insurance plans were originally started BECAUSE of commie FDR freezing salaries and the companies wanted to use it to offer an additional incentive.
Note also that they moved the floor for income tax deduction to 10% so that you would have to have massive health bills and be virtually destitute to qualify.
All this POS law was designed to do was provide FREE healthcare to the FSA, bankrupt doctors and hospitals and go to single payer. After which they would in effect have completely nationalized the health care industry because everyone would essentially work for the government.
Hugo Chavez was a poser compared to our commies. And I still say that this turd who designed it should be prosecuted for fraud and lying to congress and apply the RICO act for multiple felonies.
Posted by: Vic at November 14, 2014 04:01 PM (u9gzs)
I've noticed some pretty heavy benefits slashing. Since (IIRC) this is a tax on the employers, this probably explains the sudden push to high deductible plans.
While I'm normally a fan of high deductible plans, they require a certain amount of planning, and not being given that option, makes them a bit unwieldy. (Plus I like them because they cost less, but in these cases people are being switched to them while simultaneously taking pay cuts, so that cost differential really isn't all that beneficial.)
Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) And father to be in 2 months! at November 14, 2014 04:01 PM (HDwDg)
They always do things by incrementalization.
Right now they *say* people are happy with ObamaCare--which is complete bullshit.
It hasn't been fully implemented yet--and the effects of the bill cannot be known.
Also look at that date--
2018.
After *they hope to* elect Hillary.
(le deluge).
Posted by: Your Friendly Danube River Guide at November 14, 2014 04:01 PM (RJMhd)
Posted by: eleven at November 14, 2014 04:01 PM (7kffg)
We need to lock them all up, and have a national holiday where we can fly off to Cuba and throw tomatoes at the bastards until they rot in their pens.
Posted by: JEM at November 14, 2014 04:01 PM (o+SC1)
Actually it's pretty awesome how Weinstein is release these in drip drip drip fashion. The issue has already permeated the MSM, Mika's had to talk about it, and he's keeping it fresh.
Pretty media-savvy for an investment advisor we'd never heard of.
Posted by: Bandersnatch at November 14, 2014 04:01 PM (JtwS4)
Posted by: boulder terlit hobo at November 14, 2014 04:01 PM (FdlTq)
Posted by: --- at November 14, 2014 03:59 PM (MMC8r)
-----
No. He could have. He simply chose not to do so.
Posted by: RioBravo at November 14, 2014 04:02 PM (SaMXZ)
Posted by: Romeo13 at November 14, 2014 03:57 PM (f0pWu)
****
And in that sense it is a roaring success.
Posted by: Seamus Muldoon at November 14, 2014 04:02 PM (NeFrd)
The only equivalent scenario I could come up with for the Iraq War would be if Paul Wolfiwitz were out giving speeches in 2007 that went:
Sure we rigged the Iraqi intelligence - the oil companies are going to make a fortune! - Moo-who-wah-ha-ha ... suckers.
Repeatedly.
With John Yoo in the background saying "Fuckin' A!"
_
Posted by: BumperStickerist at November 14, 2014 04:02 PM (4CVLy)
Posted by: wrg500 at November 14, 2014 04:02 PM (sWgE+)
Posted by: Clutch Cargo at November 14, 2014 04:02 PM (sH832)
that's cute that you think the GOP is gonna do that.
***
Indeed, now is the time to reach across the aisle to do something about the problem liberals created by not enforcing the border and by paying illegals to have tons of kids, and that something is to make them all citizens with voting rights and a vested interest in living on the dole forever with many special treatments bestowed upon them so that they'll forever be indebted to one party, despite their, cough ugh, natural conservancy. sorry, I couldn't finish typing that without choking.
The one thing the GOP must look out for is not throwing Obama into the bri'ar patch because if there's one thing obama is...it's a, gasp ugh cough, shrewd political strategist. Wow, that was harder to type than I thought.
anyway, as a lifelong committed, conservative, catholic, I think we need to just give up on this and the borders.
signed, xxoo
Moonbeam Hussein Goldbergsteinbergstein-Cox
Posted by: joe-impeachin44 at November 14, 2014 04:02 PM (bhwH/)
As if they weren't already able to get free care, but anyway.
Posted by: HR needs donuts at November 14, 2014 04:02 PM (ZKzrr)
Posted by: John McClane at November 14, 2014 04:02 PM (Xv7f/)
Unless you join a health share.
Posted by: Lauren at November 14, 2014 04:02 PM (BPMYx)
Posted by: Jon Stewart at November 14, 2014 03:59 PM (OWjjx)
Yippe-kay-ay motherfucker.
Posted by: John McClain at November 14, 2014 04:02 PM (V+kmg)
The Democrat party is a walking rico case Vic...
Yeah I can be incoherent often on purpose but I was always clear and on point about this.
Obamacare is about three things.
1) Punishing Americans
2) Gifting Illegals healthcare
3) the Liverpool Pathway
Posted by: Sven S Blade a.k.a. El Assassin@sven10077 at November 14, 2014 04:03 PM (/4AZU)
Posted by: The Great White Snark at November 14, 2014 04:03 PM (XUKZU)
Posted by: SH at November 14, 2014 03:47 PM (gmeXX)
----------------------------------------
Then you pay the penalty.....er......tax for non-participation. And those penalties....er.....tax tripled this year.
----
I am not trying to defend Obamacare in anyway. I was talking about the idea of taxing health insurance as compensation - stand alone from Obamacare. If that is the change that would have been made, you would not have been forced into paying a tax. You would have had a choice.
Again, if the only change that had been made was to tax as compensation health benefits provided by employers, it (a) would have been unpopular as hell, but (b) would have had a much better overall effect on our health insurance system than what we have now.
Posted by: SH at November 14, 2014 04:03 PM (gmeXX)
Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at November 14, 2014 04:03 PM (W5DcG)
Posted by: boulder terlit hobo at November 14, 2014 04:03 PM (FdlTq)
Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at November 14, 2014 04:03 PM (W5DcG)
***
sure he could. he could have said, we tried it, it didn't work so well in Mass and will not work for the US.
How fucking hard is that. Libs think the Romneycare line is a debate ender in a Pelosi like level of rational thought. As if Romney is forever chained to one idea.
fucking donks used to be against Ghey marriage and open borders too until they realized that replacement constituencies can vote
Posted by: joe-impeachin44 at November 14, 2014 04:04 PM (bhwH/)
Posted by: broseidon king of the brocean at November 14, 2014 04:04 PM (4/i9Y)
Posted by: --- at November 14, 2014 03:59 PM (MMC8r)
-----
No. He could have. He simply chose not to do so.
Posted by: RioBravo at November 14, 2014 04:02 PM (SaMXZ)
I can see his TV commercial now:
"Look, I totally blew it in believing that big bloated centralized healthcare like they have in Britain and North Korea would work. But vote for me and I'll repeal it. And replace it too!
I'm Mitt Romney and I approve of this message, sort of."
Winning.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 14, 2014 04:05 PM (CMkNk)
And this was all part of the plan.
Kept secret from you. <<<<<<<<<<
Its not a trojan horse, its right there! - Gruberhoffenliar
The dems still don't understand why they lost the house and the senate. 90%+ of the people have been negatively affected by this monstrous law. Its gonna get worse.
Posted by: Guy Mohawk at November 14, 2014 04:05 PM (1nB6R)
Posted by: Golfman in NC at November 14, 2014 04:05 PM (wVWRM)
he points out that the bill does not bend the cost curve and it is essential to have everyone in the system and not have an option to leave.
Posted by: n at November 14, 2014 04:05 PM (iBXmZ)
Posted by: Nancy Pelosi at November 14, 2014 04:05 PM (toS2K)
Posted by: SE Pa Moron at November 14, 2014 04:05 PM (zxQ4h)
Posted by: popcorn maker at November 14, 2014 04:05 PM (HqreO)
Posted by: Jenny Stienum at November 14, 2014 04:05 PM (Sd++4)
So now lets add another 5-10 Million... by Obama Amnesty Executive order....
Posted by: Romeo13 at November 14, 2014 03:59 PM (f0pWu
Sorry... messed up... 41% are immigrants... who are MOSTLY legal according to the study.
Posted by: Romeo13 at November 14, 2014 04:06 PM (f0pWu)
Except for 2. 1 from Russia and 1 from Venezuela. The Russia one was all laughing at them and saying to the Venezuelan "they don't know" and the Venezuelan just said to them all "nothing is free, in fact free is really really expensive"
Posted by: Bigby's Latex Gloves at November 14, 2014 04:06 PM (3ZtZW)
Posted by: seems legit at November 14, 2014 04:06 PM (A98Xu)
Posted by: GOPe at November 14, 2014 04:06 PM (XzRw1)
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 14, 2014 04:06 PM (CMkNk)
Posted by: n at November 14, 2014 04:06 PM (iBXmZ)
----
He would certainly have needed someone else to write the commercial.
Posted by: RioBravo at November 14, 2014 04:06 PM (SaMXZ)
I ASPIRE TO SUCH BRAVERY
Posted by: Bigby's Latex Gloves at November 14, 2014 04:06 PM (3ZtZW)
So what? I don't want to hear that excuse for inaction. This is war.
****
I don't want to get ahead of selves here but once we override Keystone veto...who knows what's next we can override.
if.
if.
Posted by: joe-impeachin44 at November 14, 2014 04:07 PM (bhwH/)
The Prog plan is simple:
1) kill off the old, white people that won't vote for more socialism
2) import a replacement population that will
Posted by: Costanza Defense at November 14, 2014 04:07 PM (ZPrif)
It's the only way we can afford to provide healthcare to millions of dreamers.
Posted by: toby928(C) at November 14, 2014 04:07 PM (evdj2)
-
And who will play Weinstein in the movie?
Posted by: The Great White Snark at November 14, 2014 04:07 PM (XUKZU)
Mary Cloggenstein's sister-in-law?
Posted by: Sean Bannion at November 14, 2014 04:07 PM (V+kmg)
Posted by: GOPe at November 14, 2014 04:06 PM (XzRw1)
I believe in single payer. Every single person who wants health insurance pays singly for his/her own plan from among MULTIPLE policies from MULTIPLE companies across state lines.
There.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 14, 2014 04:07 PM (CMkNk)
***
Just wait until all those Adam & Steve couples start having babies...er...
Posted by: Seamus Muldoon at November 14, 2014 04:07 PM (NeFrd)
Posted by: Roy at November 14, 2014 04:07 PM (VndSC)
Posted by: GOPe at November 14, 2014 04:06 PM (XzRw1)
That was obviously the plan, to crash the system. I think it just happened too quickly. If it hobbled for a political generation, then the ploy may have worked. This set-up won't survive long enough for Biden to exit the Dem primary.
Posted by: AMDG at November 14, 2014 04:08 PM (eFytx)
Posted by: dc at November 14, 2014 04:08 PM (b8fB0)
Yet I'm sure Gruber would argue that any and every corporate tax is never passed on to the consumer... at all.
Friggan Jerk.
Posted by: Reality Man at November 14, 2014 04:08 PM (Cs9Ps)
----
He would certainly have needed someone else to write the commercial.
Posted by: RioBravo at November 14, 2014 04:06 PM (SaMXZ)
If I believed in conspiracy theories I'd say that that was an insult.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 14, 2014 04:08 PM (CMkNk)
figure out how to come up with the money that repealing the tax will
take from the treasury, or risk significantly adding to the national
debt.
Gee how about we kill the tax and kill the entitlement? How about that Mr. Genius Economist?
Posted by: Guy Mohawk at November 14, 2014 04:08 PM (1nB6R)
Same shit with RomneyCare in Mass'. Mass' couldn't afford it, and Gruber knew it, and Romney must have known it.
Posted by: boulder terlit hobo at November 14, 2014 04:08 PM (FdlTq)
Posted by: Clutch Cargo at November 14, 2014 04:08 PM (sH832)
Posted by: Roy at November 14, 2014 04:07 PM (VndSC)
Sorry, I'll start eating more tropical fruit.
Posted by: John Roberts at November 14, 2014 04:08 PM (V+kmg)
Posted by: seems legit at November 14, 2014 04:08 PM (A98Xu)
fraud
n. the intentional use of deceit, a trick or some dishonest means to deprive another of his/her/its money, property or a legal right
conspiracy
n. when people work together by agreement to commit an illegal act. A conspiracy may exist when the parties use legal means to accomplish an illegal result, or to use illegal means to achieve something that in itself is lawful.
Some assembly required.
Posted by: Romeo13 at November 14, 2014 04:08 PM (f0pWu)
And I didn't say it was. I was responding to a comment that said Republicans won't repeal this. They will try. They've been trying. Full repeal isn't going to happen until Obama is gone or the SC tears it down.
Posted by: JackStraw at November 14, 2014 04:08 PM (g1DWB)
***
they realized that adam and steve have a lot of disposable income and are natural communists.
adam and steve tend to adopt in their 50's though.
Posted by: joe-impeachin44 at November 14, 2014 04:09 PM (bhwH/)
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 14, 2014 04:08 PM (CMkNk)
-----
I was joking.
Posted by: RioBravo at November 14, 2014 04:09 PM (SaMXZ)
Mary Cloggenstein's sister-in-law?
Posted by: Sean Bannion at November 14, 2014 04:07
Lesbian lover.
Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at November 14, 2014 04:09 PM (l1zOH)
Posted by: Seamus Muldoon at November 14, 2014 04:07 PM (NeFrd)
Note: A semen-encrusted Tootsie Roll is a non-living entity.
But it will still be able to vote.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 14, 2014 04:09 PM (CMkNk)
Posted by: The Precedent at November 14, 2014 04:09 PM (zxQ4h)
Posted by: Fritz at November 14, 2014 04:09 PM (dVmLD)
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 14, 2014 04:09 PM (CMkNk)
Posted by: A dude in MI at November 14, 2014 04:09 PM (o2Jt2)
And force you to pay for it directly. And enrich insurance companies with a compulsory customer base.
Posted by: --- at November 14, 2014 04:10 PM (MMC8r)
Posted by: Heralder at November 14, 2014 04:10 PM (/Mxso)
Spring will be a good time for the grand rebellion. First, we lynch
Congress and their enabling Lobbying Industry. Then we go after the
Executive Branch. And then Harvard and Yale Faculties. Just because.
Posted by: dc at November 14, 2014 04:08 PM (b8fB0)
*cowers in shame*
Posted by: MSM at November 14, 2014 04:10 PM (sDapq)
Posted by: LizLem at November 14, 2014 04:10 PM (yRwC8)
Posted by: Sean Bannion at November 14, 2014 04:07
Lesbian lover.
Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at November 14, 2014 04:09 PM (l1zOH)
I stand corrected.
Posted by: Sean Bannion at November 14, 2014 04:10 PM (V+kmg)
Posted by: helloit's me Donna and I know nuthink! at November 14, 2014 04:11 PM (Bn6aD)
Posted by: A dude in MI at November 14, 2014 04:09 PM (o2Jt2)
Mal. He killed me with a sword, Mal. How weird is that?
Posted by: AMDG at November 14, 2014 04:11 PM (eFytx)
Posted by: wrg500 at November 14, 2014 04:11 PM (sWgE+)
Posted by: --- at November 14, 2014 04:10 PM (MMC8r)
How can we consider ourselves to be a Free Country, when we must BUY a product by Government Order?
Posted by: Romeo13 at November 14, 2014 04:11 PM (f0pWu)
Posted by: wrg500 at November 14, 2014 04:02 PM (sWgE+)
----------------------------------------
FNC has been pounding this. As I type, Cavuto is covering the whole mess.
Posted by: Nancy Pelosi at November 14, 2014 04:11 PM (toS2K)
Posted by: mallfly at November 14, 2014 04:11 PM (bJm7W)
I heard an interview of him this am. He has been sending this shit out for months and only went viral when he put it in the comment section on some blog.
Posted by: Madamex at November 14, 2014 04:12 PM (NwQcc)
I am becoming more and more convinced that to fight evil you have to employ evil's tactics right back at it.
Posted by: LGoPs at November 14, 2014 04:12 PM (+2dx9)
Since we weren't fooled, this information doesn't really surprise us. Is there some chance this information will get to the people who need to see it?
That would be nice, but i'm not going to hold my breath. Even if it got to them, would there be any good consequences from it?
Don't see much profit in explaining to damn fools how it was that they had previously behaved like damn fools.
Posted by: D-Lamp at November 14, 2014 04:12 PM (txvbW)
Posted by: Mitch McConnell at November 14, 2014 04:12 PM (Qgr71)
Posted by: Heralder at November 14, 2014 04:12 PM (/Mxso)
Posted by: mallfly at November 14, 2014 04:12 PM (bJm7W)
Posted by: artisanal 'ette at November 14, 2014 04:12 PM (IXrOn)
----
I think that is about right. I think they underestimated how much the public would hate it. The Dems paid a huge political price for Obamcare, and I'll be surprised it if lasts in any meaningful way. In other words, they paid a price for nothing.
Posted by: SH at November 14, 2014 04:12 PM (gmeXX)
Posted by: Carol at November 14, 2014 04:12 PM (sj3Ax)
Posted by: Soona at November 14, 2014 04:12 PM (toS2K)
Would be fun to crank out the FRCP 60 Motion to see if we could catch Chief Justice Roberts in a lucid moment and see if he would decide that his previous SCOTUS Obamacare boner was reversible.
Posted by: Sharkman at November 14, 2014 04:12 PM (VdIfd)
I'm not necessarily opposed to it either.
but my concern: poorly articulated though it is, isn't entirely crazy. If we're going to go this route we need to make sure there aren't still perverse incentives to making health insurance a substantial part of compensation.
Merely taxing it as income doesn't change that because the company still benefits by not having to pay it's share of FICA (as the system is current set up.)
This provides them with an incentive to shift more and more compensation to healthcare. (Actually that incentive already exists, indeed it's happening, but right now it's a net benefit for the employee as well.)
If we treat it all the same (That is subject to FICA and all the rest) it's probably not going to be a problem (unpopular yes, looming burden on people, no.)
Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) And father to be in 2 months! at November 14, 2014 04:12 PM (HDwDg)
I am becoming more and more convinced that to fight evil you have to employ evil's tactics right back at it.
Posted by: LGoPs at November 14, 2014 04:12 PM (+2dx9)
Darwin applies to political movements too.
Posted by: D-Lamp at November 14, 2014 04:13 PM (txvbW)
Posted by: mallfly at November 14, 2014 04:13 PM (bJm7W)
Actually it's pretty awesome how Weinstein is release these in drip drip drip fashion. The issue has already permeated the MSM, Mika's had to talk about it, and he's keeping it fresh.
Pretty media-savvy for an investment advisor we'd never heard of.
Posted by: Bandersnatch at November 14, 2014 04:01 PM (JtwS4)
*********
Supposedly he sent it all to the MSM awhile ago and they simply
did.not.report.it.
Posted by: Your Friendly Danube River Guide at November 14, 2014 04:13 PM (RJMhd)
Posted by: LGoPs at November 14, 2014 04:12 PM (+2dx9)
I don't think you have to use their tactics... but...
You do have to be willing to FIGHT. To tell the TRUTH...
And cannot be afraid to 'offend'.
Posted by: Romeo13 at November 14, 2014 04:14 PM (f0pWu)
We've played out this farce many times.
Posted by: Soothsayer, All Knowing Of (Approximate) Knowledge at November 14, 2014 04:14 PM (+f7H2)
Posted by: Sean Bannion at November 14, 2014 04:07
Lesbian lover.
Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at November 14, 2014 04:09 PM (l1zOH)
I stand corrected.
Posted by: Sean Bannion at November 14, 2014 04:10 PM (V+kmg)
***
Not necessarily mutually exclusive...
Posted by: Seamus Muldoon at November 14, 2014 04:14 PM (NeFrd)
Posted by: artisanal 'ette at November 14, 2014 04:14 PM (IXrOn)
Posted by: Carol at November 14, 2014 04:14 PM (sj3Ax)
Actually the law was never about health care or health care insurance. Its about power to control.
You think you are going to the front of the heart operation line as a conservative? Here have a chat with Health Czar Lois Lerner.
Posted by: Guy Mohawk at November 14, 2014 04:14 PM (1nB6R)
But we gave you ebola. Ingrate.
Posted by: GOPe at November 14, 2014 04:14 PM (XzRw1)
Friggan Jerk.
Posted by: Reality Man
He did admit that the tax is passed on to the consumer via price increases in the 1st or 2nd video.
Posted by: weft cut-loop at November 14, 2014 04:14 PM (/lTUs)
did.not.report.it.
Posted by: Your Friendly Danube River Guide at November 14, 2014 04:13 PM (RJMhd)
Haha...so he said F those guys...I'll do it myself. Nice.
Posted by: A dude in MI at November 14, 2014 04:14 PM (o2Jt2)
FIFY Posted by: Citizen X at November 14, 2014 03:51 PM (7ObY1)
Pulitzer worthy, both he and Sharyl Attkisson. Not that they'll ever get one.
Posted by: LizLem at November 14, 2014 04:15 PM (yRwC8)
"Once again, that ultimately became the genesis of what is called the Cadillac tax in the health care bill, which I think is one of the most important and bravest parts of the health care law and doesn't get nearly enough credit. I mean, this is the first time after years and years of urging --
My emphasis.
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at November 14, 2014 04:15 PM (l1zOH)
Posted by: n at November 14, 2014 04:15 PM (iBXmZ)
And this was all part of the plan.
Kept secret from you.
That's the thing, though. It wasn't kept secret. He made these comments in 2011. This was all out there in the open.
It's not the lies that will bring them down. The lies were an open secret. It's the hubris of BRAGGING about the lies that will be the downfall of Gruber, Obammycare, and the whole leftwing house of cards.
Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit & Vaginassassin, aka Beth at November 14, 2014 04:15 PM (4df7R)
Posted by: Soothsayer, All Knowing Of (Approximate) Knowledge at November 14, 2014 04:16 PM (+f7H2)
Posted by: toby928(C) at November 14, 2014 04:16 PM (evdj2)
This provides them with an incentive to shift more and more compensation to healthcare. (Actually that incentive already exists, indeed it's happening, but right now it's a net benefit for the employee as well.)
If we treat it all the same (That is subject to FICA and all the rest) it's probably not going to be a problem (unpopular yes, looming burden on people, no.)
Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) And father to be in 2 months! at November 14, 2014 04:12 PM (HDwDg)
Simplify everything. Flat tax, ten percent, no deductions. Company wants you to have insurance? Increase your salary so you can chose it if you want it.
Much of our troubles in this area stem from the perverse incentives hiding in all the complexity. Toss out the complexity and a lot of stuff gets cleaned up.
Letting the government tamper with the tax code is just asking for trouble.
Posted by: D-Lamp at November 14, 2014 04:16 PM (txvbW)
Posted by: f2000 at November 14, 2014 04:16 PM (ONKYQ)
"Once again, that ultimately became the genesis of what is called the Cadillac tax in the health care bill, which I think is one of the most important and bravest parts of the health care law and doesn't get nearly enough credit. I mean, this is the first time after years and years of urging -- and the entire health policy, there is not one single health expert in America who is setting up a system from scratch, would have this employer subsidy in place. Not one.
My emphasis.
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at November 14, 2014 04:16 PM (l1zOH)
Posted by: Jean at November 14, 2014 04:16 PM (U67az)
Do we know where Kagan was during these WH meetings with Gruber and administration officials?
Proving she was present could make for some SCOTUS a fun, both in getting her recused from Halbig and from possible impeachment over the fraud in question, given that she didn't recuse herself from the last case because she claims she wasn't involved.
Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at November 14, 2014 04:17 PM (eauMe)
Supposedly he sent it all to the MSM awhile ago and they simply
did.not.report.it.
Posted by: Your Friendly Danube River Guide at November 14, 2014 04:13 PM (RJMhd)
Which is why they should be treated like captured Nazi soldiers, because that's what they damn well are.
Posted by: D-Lamp at November 14, 2014 04:17 PM (txvbW)
Posted by: seems legit at November 14, 2014 04:08 PM (A98Xu)
----------------------------------------
Not only that, he happily signed off on Gruber's work.
Posted by: Soona at November 14, 2014 04:17 PM (toS2K)
Yippe-kay-ay motherfucker.
Posted by: John McClain at November 14, 2014 04:02 PM (V+kmg)
If you're going to spell the name of the Bruce Willis character that way instead of correctly as "McClane," perhaps you should add "my friends" to the end of the catchphrase.
Posted by: Slappy at November 14, 2014 04:17 PM (Am9Tn)
http://tinyurl.com/lm9c3up
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at November 14, 2014 04:17 PM (l1zOH)
Posted by: Jean at November 14, 2014 04:16 PM (U67az)
Not Medicare. Medicaid.
Obammycare raided Medicare.
Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit & Vaginassassin, aka Beth at November 14, 2014 04:18 PM (4df7R)
Posted by: Carol at November 14, 2014 04:18 PM (sj3Ax)
Not necessarily mutually exclusive...
Posted by: Seamus Muldoon at November 14, 2014 04:14
Family dinners just got interesting.
Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at November 14, 2014 04:18 PM (l1zOH)
Posted by: Heralder at November 14, 2014 04:12 PM (/Mxso)
Not so long as they control the "news" and "entertainment" industries.
Posted by: D-Lamp at November 14, 2014 04:18 PM (txvbW)
Posted by: Jon Gruber at November 14, 2014 04:18 PM (32Ze2)
Us: Dennis Green
Now we just need to be the 2006 Indianapolis Colts.
Posted by: HR needs donuts at November 14, 2014 04:18 PM (ZKzrr)
Posted by: dedomeno at November 14, 2014 04:18 PM (UccCH)
Posted by: Senator John McCain (2012) at November 14, 2014 04:18 PM (Qgr71)
Posted by: toby928(C) at November 14, 2014 04:18 PM (evdj2)
Posted by: boulder terlit hobo at November 14, 2014 04:19 PM (FdlTq)
Posted by: The Great White Scotsman at November 14, 2014 04:19 PM (Rm+rQ)
BTW, this is the same damn way they brought in the federal income tax.
Posted by: Vic at November 14, 2014 04:19 PM (u9gzs)
Posted by: Soothsayer, All Knowing Of (Approximate) Knowledge at November 14, 2014 04:16 PM (+f7H2)"We better not let 'em off the hook.
Posted by: broseidon king of the brocean at November 14, 2014 04:19 PM (4/i9Y)
I'd love to listen to Gruber's phone calls for the last 72 hours.
Posted by: seems legit at November 14, 2014 04:19 PM (A98Xu)
Back to let it burn?
Posted by: Navycopjoe knows only Palin can save us at November 14, 2014 04:19 PM (hwHa4)
Posted by: mugiwara at November 14, 2014 04:19 PM (D5hxK)
Posted by: The Tar n' Feathering Hat at November 14, 2014 04:19 PM (lN8KC)
That makes me rage a little. The press hit the whole "look we found a secret tape of Romney saying mean things at a fundraiser!" hard in 2012. Would have been nice to counteract with "oh yeah? We found the architect of Obamacare crowing about lying to the American public on the tax rates. 8 episodes of it. Check and mate." But no one on either side bothered to check them out...wasted chance.
Posted by: LizLem at November 14, 2014 04:19 PM (yRwC8)
Posted by: n at November 14, 2014 04:19 PM (iBXmZ)
Posted by: The New England Patriots at November 14, 2014 04:20 PM (+f7H2)
Do we know where Kagan was during these WH meetings with Gruber and administration officials?-----
She was up to her size XL undies in it.
Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at November 14, 2014 04:20 PM (l1zOH)
Posted by: Fritz at November 14, 2014 04:20 PM (dVmLD)
Posted by: --- at November 14, 2014 04:20 PM (MMC8r)
Posted by: Mitt Romney at November 14, 2014 04:20 PM (Qgr71)
Lost on this idiot is the fact that the "employer subsidy" arose out of FDR's shit plans.
Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) And father to be in 2 months! at November 14, 2014 04:20 PM (HDwDg)
Posted by: Sarge at November 14, 2014 04:20 PM (We5IL)
How can we consider ourselves to be a Free Country, when we must BUY a product by Government Order?
Posted by: Romeo13 at November 14, 2014 04:11 PM (f0pWu)
I've been saying this about mandatory automobile insurance for two decades. If the state feels that such a thing is necessary, this service ought to be supplied by the state.
Mixing private industry up in what is an ostensible government requirement is just asking for moral hazards.
Posted by: D-Lamp at November 14, 2014 04:21 PM (txvbW)
if history repeats itself as farce, what does farce repeat itself as?
Posted by: Bigby's Latex Gloves at November 14, 2014 04:21 PM (3ZtZW)
Posted by: Senator John McCain (2012) at November 14, 2014 04:18 PM (Qgr71)
---
Did anyone simply ask him, why?
The American public hates this law. HATES. IT.
Posted by: seems legit at November 14, 2014 04:21 PM (A98Xu)
-
John McCain the morning after amnesty is signed into law: Yippie Kay ay, my motherfucking friends.
Posted by: The Great White Snark at November 14, 2014 04:21 PM (XUKZU)
Posted by: Jonathan Gruber at November 14, 2014 04:21 PM (OD2ni)
It's one of the few tax benefits of being gainfully employed, for fuck's sake. Unless you're going to eliminate every single such social-engineering exemption, including mortgage interest and the per-child exemption, leave it the fuck alone. The act of eliminating one of these, while leaving the others, is itself social engineering, in the wrong goddamned direction.
And as others have said, many of us saw this problem with ObamaCare years ago -- pegging the cap for the 'Cadillac tax' to CPI.
Here's the real kicker about CPI, the Consumer Price Index: It is an almost comical underestimate of real inflation. Not only do they not count basic, essential commodities like food and energy in the CPI (they're just too goshdarned 'volatile'), but they also drive the CPI down by factoring in the fact that a 50" flat panel TV that costs $500 today, would have cost $1,000 a few years ago; so they count that as deflationary.
Even though actual consumer activity doesn't work this way -- most people will go out and spend $500 on whatever TV they can get for that money.
They do this with PCs too -- as if, 10 years ago, anyone would have considered going out and spending $50,000 for the computing power of today's Walmart $299 tower.
When you see a CPI of 2% or whatever they're pretending it is, and you see bacon go up 30% in a year, the bullshit is obvious. And BLS is about to start using a whole new method of calculating it. I bet their methodology will be purely apolitical, huh?
Posted by: Pastafarian at November 14, 2014 04:21 PM (LqrRo)
did.not.report.it.
Posted by: Your Friendly Danube River Guide
--------------
I think that Gannett got it, because our local Gannett paper immediately (without any mention of Gruber) published an Editorial hyping Obamacare, and echoing the meme that the law should not be interpreted literally.
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at November 14, 2014 04:21 PM (l1zOH)
Posted by: The Tar n' Feathering Hat at November 14, 2014 04:21 PM (lN8KC)
"I can tell you, in the United States Senate, we will not repeal or
defund Obamacare. We will not and to think we can is not rational."
Posted by: Senator John McCain (2012) at November 14, 2014 04:18 PM (Qgr71)
Brought to you by the guy who is exempted from Obamacare's pain.
Posted by: flounder at November 14, 2014 04:21 PM (sDapq)
Posted by: Jon Gruber at November 14, 2014 04:21 PM (32Ze2)
Posted by: toby928(C) at November 14, 2014 04:21 PM (evdj2)
Posted by: Mitch McConnell at November 14, 2014 04:21 PM (XzRw1)
Posted by: n at November 14, 2014 04:22 PM (iBXmZ)
Good question
Posted by: Lizzy at November 14, 2014 04:22 PM (ABcz/)
Posted by: Guy Mohawk at November 14, 2014 04:22 PM (1nB6R)
If so, there is precedent to toss her.
Abe Fortas resigned under pressure in the 60s over collusion between him and his buddy LBJ wth regards to the court, along with some questionable financial arrangements.
Participating in a fraud like this is clear grounds to toss her.
Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at November 14, 2014 04:22 PM (eauMe)
Posted by: seems legit at November 14, 2014 04:22 PM (A98Xu)
And supplanting it with the Consent of the Criminally Misled.
Posted by: Jay Guevara at November 14, 2014 04:22 PM (oKE6c)
Posted by: toby928(C) at November 14, 2014 04:22 PM (evdj2)
Still, Gruber nearly attended law school, only choosing graduate economics "at the very last minute." Gruber enrolled in Harvard's PhD program, intending to study international economics, but switched to health care partly because his graduate advisor-- Lawrence Summers, the future U.S. Treasury Secretary --suggested there were many health-care problems worth tackling in economics.
[...]
By the late 1990s, Gruber had been awarded tenure at MIT and unearthed some rich data about health-care reforms, but was still outside the policy wars. Then Summers ( Larry) asked Gruber to serve as a deputy assistant secretary for economic policy in the Treasury Department, in 1997 and 1998. There, Gruber was finally persuaded to jump into policymaking, in part by another Clinton adviser.
How Jonathan Gruber Became 'Mr. Mandate'
MIT News newsoffice.mit.edu
Posted by: Your Friendly Danube River Guide at November 14, 2014 04:23 PM (RJMhd)
Posted by: D-Lamp at November 14, 2014 04:16 PM (txvbW)
----------------------------------------------
I agree 100%. What's happening now is that we're getting a series of videos of "Tax-Lawyer Heaven".
Posted by: Soona at November 14, 2014 04:23 PM (toS2K)
-
Barky went to Burma to complain that they were backsliding on democracy. Pot, meet kettle.
Posted by: The Great White Snark at November 14, 2014 04:23 PM (XUKZU)
Posted by: Super Creepy Rob Lowe at November 14, 2014 04:23 PM (oDCMR)
Posted by: no good deed at November 14, 2014 04:23 PM (w3a0Z)
At least auto insurance is tied to driving... ie, if you don't drive you don't need it...
This is tied to Existing... to living...
Unless of course, you are in a specific group that does not have to do it for religious reasons.
Posted by: Romeo13 at November 14, 2014 04:24 PM (f0pWu)
Yes, Cadillac plans will go away. We just had our employee meeting about our new plan. The old plan had to be thrown out because it was too generous.
So, now we have a higher out-of-pocket next year. Thanks, Obama!
But.. by no means does that mean my employer is going to stop providing health insurance for our company!
They simply adjusted the benefits to meet non-Cadillac limits.
Yes, it's still pretty bad they were forced to do it. But WTF is Gruber talking about how much this tax will bring in? It will bring in nothing. Employers will simply be forced to reduce benefits in their plans.
And it is doubtful they will stop providing plans for their employees, thus preserving this "evil" tax deduction we get for this un-taxed benefit.
Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at November 14, 2014 04:24 PM (4+IgA)
Let us take a moment to consider the implications.
Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at November 14, 2014 04:24 PM (659DL)
*********
Eating at The Y?
Posted by: Truck Monkey, Aiming His Torpedo at November 14, 2014 04:24 PM (32Ze2)
She was in the pew, but she wasn't listening.
Posted by: toby928(C) at November 14, 2014 04:24 PM (evdj2)
----------------
'Adolescents' - Johnnie Goober
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at November 14, 2014 04:24 PM (l1zOH)
Posted by: n at November 14, 2014 04:24 PM (iBXmZ)
There are innumerable lampposts around this nation that could use a little decorating right now... starting in Cambridge, MA and Washington, DC.
Posted by: Krebs v Carnot: Epic Battle of the Cycling Stars(TM) at November 14, 2014 04:24 PM (/dvmK)
out how to come up with the money that repealing the tax will take from
the treasury, or risk significantly adding to the national debt.
Since when has that ever fucking mattered?
This eminent Lefty has not only confirmed the theories of fiscal conservatism in all of these videos, he's admitted that Leftist economic theories are complete bullshit. And yet he's still a Lefty.
These people are beyond repair.
Posted by: Burn the Witch at November 14, 2014 04:24 PM (xSCb6)
It wasn't a secret. Mass took the money that was already being sent to MA for hospitals and repurposed it for people who couldn't pay for insurance.
It was all part of the plan from day 1 and he talked about it all the time.
Posted by: JackStraw at November 14, 2014 04:25 PM (g1DWB)
Ace: "I've had my eyes out."
I'm pretty sure that wasn't one of the migraine cures the Horde recommended.
Posted by: Bandersnatch at November 14, 2014 04:25 PM (JtwS4)
Obama screws his own people.
Posted by: Marvin the Mechanical at November 14, 2014 04:25 PM (bv57/)
Posted by: dedomeno at November 14, 2014 04:25 PM (UccCH)
Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at November 14, 2014 04:25 PM (W5DcG)
Posted by: Lizzy at November 14, 2014 04:25 PM (ABcz/)
I think I'll shorthand that to Goebbelsenvolk.
Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at November 14, 2014 04:25 PM (1CroS)
Plan cost is exploding.
At a certain point plans under the Cadillac cap will basically cover a bottle of aspirin and nothing more.
Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) And father to be in 2 months! at November 14, 2014 04:25 PM (HDwDg)
Posted by: Romeo13 at November 14, 2014 04:24 PM (f0pWu)
And only the right religion. Otherwise, HHS mandate for you!
Posted by: AMDG at November 14, 2014 04:25 PM (eFytx)
Posted by: Lizzy
Frankly, i like it when he is out of the country.
Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at November 14, 2014 04:26 PM (l1zOH)
defund Obamacare. We will not and to think we can is not rational."
Posted by: Senator John McCain (2012) at November 14, 2014 04:18 PM (Qgr71)
Of course McCain said this in September 2013 before the government shutdown and when the Democrats had a majority in the senate.
A whole lot of events have happened since then.
Posted by: Maetenloch at November 14, 2014 04:26 PM (pAlYe)
Posted by: HR needs donuts at November 14, 2014 04:26 PM (ZKzrr)
Posted by: n at November 14, 2014 04:26 PM (iBXmZ)
Posted by: TheDissentingVoice at November 14, 2014 04:26 PM (w3U/d)
Posted by: kj at November 14, 2014 04:26 PM (lKyWE)
Posted by: Soothsayer, All Knowing Of (Approximate) Knowledge at November 14, 2014 04:26 PM (+f7H2)
>>Do we know where Kagan was during these WH meetings with Gruber and administration officials?
In the front row.
Posted by: The Indigo Girls at November 14, 2014 04:27 PM (OD2ni)
Posted by: Unstoppable waves of illegal aliens at November 14, 2014 04:27 PM (Tj+s6)
Might I suggest something a bit more suitable for these scumbags?
Posted by: Vlad the Impaler at November 14, 2014 04:27 PM (fBxC6)
To help the republicans out with their pithy lines, it is:
Obamacare makes all employer plans go away.
Posted by: Guy Mohawk at November 14, 2014 04:27 PM (1nB6R)
Posted by: Burn the Witch at November 14, 2014 04:27 PM (xSCb6)
There are innumerable lampposts around this nation that could use a
little decorating right now... starting in Cambridge, MA and Washington,
DC.
Crucify them !!!
Posted by: Thin veneer of civility at November 14, 2014 04:27 PM (XzRw1)
And next year they'll have to adjust them again. And again the year after that. In 5 years, there are no plans that aren't "Cadillac" and all employees are forced off employer plans.
Posted by: Lauren at November 14, 2014 04:27 PM (BPMYx)
pass something that would initially only impact some employer plans
though it would eventually hit almost every employer plan. And by that
time, those who object to the tax will be obligated to figure out how to
come up with the money that repealing the tax will take from the
treasury, or risk significantly adding to the national debt."
I wish they'd apply some of this ingenuity to dealing with, say, foreign policy, or reducing the national debt, curbing costs in higher education, or fighting crime in inner cities.
Posted by: Jay Guevara at November 14, 2014 04:27 PM (oKE6c)
------------------
My god....., the stench of the elitist Left is pervasive.
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at November 14, 2014 04:27 PM (l1zOH)
Posted by: Soothsayer, All Knowing Of (Approximate) Knowledge at November 14, 2014 04:28 PM (+f7H2)
The extremists have reduced political and policy discussions to soundbites.
Posted by: Susan Olivia Cuthbertson-Klein at November 14, 2014 04:28 PM (Ks4nX)
-
Li'l Joey Boo Boo is trying to position himself for a 2016 run and is actually committing suicide. A few weeks ago he badmouthed Obama on the economy and now he is saying that the Clinton economy wasn't all that great either. Joe's making friends everywhere he goes.
Posted by: The Great White Snark at November 14, 2014 04:28 PM (XUKZU)
Posted by: f2000 at November 14, 2014 04:16 PM (ONKYQ)
Prove it? Prove it to who? Do you think this stuff is going to get through to the people that need to hear it and understand it?
I am cynical on this point.
Posted by: D-Lamp at November 14, 2014 04:28 PM (txvbW)
There will come a time when everybody
Who is lonely will be free . . .
TO SING & DANCE & LOVE
There will come a time when every evil
That we know will be an evil . . .
THAT WE CAN RISE ABOVE
Who cares if hair is long or short
Or sprayed or partly grayed . . .
WE KNOW THAT HAIR AIN'T WHERE IT'S AT
(there will come a time when you won't even be ashamed if you are fat!)
WAH WAH-WAH WAH
Posted by: toby928(C) at November 14, 2014 04:28 PM (evdj2)
Posted by: Bandersnatch at November 14, 2014 04:28 PM (JtwS4)
Posted by: n at November 14, 2014 04:28 PM (iBXmZ)
"Liberals Admit That They Understand Public - Choice Economics After All!"
And to my liberal friends, I will say, now that you clearly understand the first lesson of public-choice economics, you can move to Phase Two of the lesson. Here it comes: The institutions of government are inherently incapable of performing certain tasks well, even if our most visible elected officials were smart, compassionate and well-intentioned (unlike the architects of Obamacare). An unseen army of self-interested bureaucrats and administrative agencies are just as self-interested as the worst of the politicians that we elect; but considerably less accountable.
Posted by: weft cut-loop at November 14, 2014 04:29 PM (/lTUs)
Posted by: Truck Monkey, Aiming His Torpedo at November 14, 2014 04:29 PM (32Ze2)
Posted by: dedomeno at November 14, 2014 04:29 PM (UccCH)
Except that then it would not be allowed by HHS, because they have that laundry list of everything that a plan must cover.
Catch-22 - You have to include X, Y, and Z, and the cost of doing so makes it a "cadillac plan."
Posted by: Lizzy at November 14, 2014 04:29 PM (ABcz/)
Just because it's on nobody's radar -- Obamacare also nationalized the student loan business. This meant that nobody was going to pay the slightest interest in whether a student was creditworthy or collegeworthy, or whether the student's major was likely to ever yield an economic return. This has been a life ring to colleges who would otherwise see enrollments decline as the "echo boom" graduates and college-age population drops....which benefits faculty, who are overwhelmingly socialists.
In return, it graduates great masses of unemployable Grievance Studies majors saddled with immense levels of debt.....'cause they're ever-so-likely to become Republicans.
Posted by: cthulhu at November 14, 2014 04:29 PM (T1005)
Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at November 14, 2014 04:29 PM (4+IgA)
Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at November 14, 2014 04:29 PM (W5DcG)
Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at November 14, 2014 04:29 PM (l1zOH)
The ease and self-satisfaction with which Gruber and perhaps many thousands like him in the bureaucracy and academia is willing to consign millions of his fellow citizens to misery and suffering is just staggering.
We are a red cvnt hair away from becoming a much harder tyranny than the soft one we are in.
Take Charles Ponzi and cross him with Adolph Eichmann and you get Jonathan Gruber. And all the rest like him.
This is not gonna end well. But end it will.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 14, 2014 04:29 PM (CMkNk)
did.not.report.it.
Posted by: Your Friendly Danube River Guide
--------------
I think that Gannett got it, because our local Gannett paper immediately (without any mention of Gruber) published an Editorial hyping Obamacare, and echoing the meme that the law should not be interpreted literally.
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at November 14, 2014 04:21 PM (l1zOH)
*********
LOL!
That reminds me--I was actually watching a Gruber video on youtube and he tells people NOT to read the health care law.
Before that he made a joke about his daughter wanting his wife to help him with her math homework.
Gruber said that he was insulted because she should want him to help her with her math homework because of his degrees in finance and so he asked her why she preferred his wife and she responded--
"Dad I don't want to know that much about math!"
Posted by: Your Friendly Danube River Guide at November 14, 2014 04:29 PM (RJMhd)
Posted by: seems legit at November 14, 2014 04:29 PM (A98Xu)
Posted by: The Jackhole at November 14, 2014 04:29 PM (6/J77)
http://bit.ly/1sPh8mY
Note who it was who wrote the question.
Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Now with extra taunting. at November 14, 2014 04:30 PM (mf5HN)
Posted by: Liv Tyler at November 14, 2014 04:30 PM (wAQA5)
Are we having a baseline you won't be taxed on income below x-amount then? Or are going to do the same with businesses and say you owe on whatever you make regardless of expenses? Health insurance, home mortgage interest, kids, can in a business analogy be viewed as expenses.
Posted by: Better Feared than Loved at November 14, 2014 04:30 PM (jasFi)
Posted by: LIVs at November 14, 2014 04:31 PM (Tj+s6)
--------------------
This would be the same Larry Summers who rah-rahed the CRA and consequent housing crash.
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at November 14, 2014 04:31 PM (l1zOH)
Posted by: --- at November 14, 2014 04:31 PM (MMC8r)
Why is TFG doing a townhall in Burma? WTF?
Posted by: Lizzy at November 14, 2014 04:25 PM (ABcz/)
In a perfect world, it would be because he was in exile.
Posted by: flounder at November 14, 2014 04:31 PM (sDapq)
There will come a time when everybody
Who is lonely will be free . . .
TO SING & DANCE & LOVE (dance and love)
There will come a time when every evil
That we know will be an evil . . .
THAT WE CAN RISE ABOVE (rise above)
Who cares if you're so poor you can't afford
To buy a pair of Mod A Go-Go stretch-elastic pants . . .
THERE WILL COME A TIME WHEN YOU CAN EVEN
TAKE YOUR CLOTHES OFF WHEN YOU DANCE
Posted by: toby928(C) at November 14, 2014 04:31 PM (evdj2)
And that's an important point.
RomneyCare would have failed without a massive infusion of Fed money.
This whole business is perverse and obscene.
The first thing the dopes that run GOPe better damn well do once they take control in January is get this son of bitch under oath and make him squeal like the commie pig he is.
Posted by: Kreplach at November 14, 2014 04:31 PM (bKSy7)
"GOP Conference to Vote on Forcing All Staff onto Obamacare Exchanges"
The Senate Republican Conference is currently conducting leadership elections. It is also voting on a handful of proposals and resolutions that, if backed by a majority of the conference, will be adopted as the formal positions of the GOP. They include the provision below, proposed by Louisiana senator David Vitter, which would require all Republican senators to force their staffers onto D.C.'s Obamacare exchange, and to challenge Democrats to do the same.
Posted by: weft cut-loop at November 14, 2014 04:32 PM (/lTUs)
Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at November 14, 2014 04:29 PM (l1zOH)
Dear Friend:
I am Dr. Jonathan Gruber, PhD of MIT and an advisor to President Obama. Recently, I had to go into hiding but have access to $400 million dollars of excess Massachusetts Medicaid funds.
Please send me $5000 US via Western Union to cover all modalities and I will send you $50million US for your help.
Remain blessed.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 14, 2014 04:32 PM (CMkNk)
Posted by: The Great White Snark at November 14, 2014 04:28 PM (XUKZU)
Well....it WAS a big f**king deal!!!
::: sob :::
Posted by: Joe Biden at November 14, 2014 04:32 PM (V+kmg)
Posted by: Unstoppable waves of illegal aliens
Mexico City. Must apply in person.
Posted by: rickb223 at November 14, 2014 04:32 PM (AAJX/)
And that's IF they're paying attention to it.
Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That at November 14, 2014 04:32 PM (KK+mC)
Are these really the people who are passed off as "really smart?"
Posted by: seems legit at November 14, 2014 04:32 PM (A98Xu)
A whole lot of events have happened since then.
Posted by: Maetenloch at November 14, 2014 04:26
And Maet, I bet you a bottle of valu-rite McCain's opinion remains the same.
Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at November 14, 2014 04:32 PM (vPh3W)
I hereby submit: "Gruebbels."
Posted by: Jay Guevara at November 14, 2014 04:33 PM (oKE6c)
Posted by: Stupid, Uninformed Voter at November 14, 2014 04:33 PM (78OXS)
And it is doubtful they will stop providing plans for their
employees, thus preserving this "evil" tax deduction we get for this
un-taxed benefit."
It's not doubtful that our small company will stop providing plans. It's inevitable that we will. Premiums went up 20% last year. After payroll and material, health care premiums are our biggest expense. If they go up another 20% this year, we'll still offer them for one more year. If they go up another 20% the year after that, we're done, and our employees will have to fend for themselves. And a few of them have children with serious long-term conditions.
I swear to Christ, I haven't taken a solid shit since this feckless socialist twat-waffle was elected. Most of the time you see presidents age in office; during this shit-head's term, everyone else has the greying at the temples.
That's really what I'm looking forward to most, in 2016, when President Scott Walker is elected: A nice solid shit.
Posted by: Pastafarian at November 14, 2014 04:33 PM (LqrRo)
Posted by: getonwidit at November 14, 2014 04:33 PM (TiTon)
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 14, 2014 04:32
The names were change to protect the guility.
Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at November 14, 2014 04:33 PM (vPh3W)
The Prog plan is simple:
1) kill off the old, white people that won't vote for more socialism
2) import a replacement population that will
Posted by: Costanza Defense at November 14, 2014 04:07 PM (ZPrif)
It's the Underpants Gnomes theory of economics:
1) Kill off all the productive workers and innovators, and tax all those still living to penury.
2) Import vast quantities of orcs who won't work.
3) ?
4) ?
5) Profit! Just like Venezuela.
Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at November 14, 2014 04:34 PM (7MWCL)
My Girlfriend currently pays over $9K a year, just for herself.
If healthcare costs go up 10% in the next FOUR years... she will be at the cap.
She is a glorified secretary working for a School District.
Note, it is the IRS who gets to determine the Cap... and after 2018 will increase it by the COLA adjustment... that is already lower than inflation.
Eventually, everyone who actually pays, will be over that Cap... because... MATH...
Posted by: Romeo13 at November 14, 2014 04:34 PM (f0pWu)
have a nice S Class Mercedes AND a Honda with what we pay for Health
Insurance.<<<
How many Cadillacs does that equal? Hey, I'm a moron.
Posted by: Fritz at November 14, 2014 04:34 PM (dVmLD)
Posted by: Lauren at November 14, 2014 04:34 PM (BPMYx)
Posted by: Truck Monkey, Aiming His Torpedo at November 14, 2014 04:34 PM (32Ze2)
Posted by: freaked at November 14, 2014 04:35 PM (JdEZJ)
Posted by: seems legit at November 14, 2014 04:32 PM (A98Xu)
No, they're really wicked smahhht
Posted by: Good Will Hunting at November 14, 2014 04:35 PM (V+kmg)
Posted by: n at November 14, 2014 04:22 PM (iBXmZ)
Ignorant and stupid but narcissistic community organizer.
Posted by: D-Lamp at November 14, 2014 04:35 PM (txvbW)
Health insurance, home mortgage interest, kids, can in a business analogy be viewed as expenses.
So can commuting, food, and my cable bill. Those things are in the tax code because the government wants to reward good behavior (home owners with children) and discourage bad behavior (childless renters).
I don't think they actually do alter people's choices, though. I know they never affected my choices. I have two boys because I was married and we wanted a family. I'd have done that without the tax break.
It's always about power and control. I want all nannying out of the tax code.
Posted by: Bandersnatch at November 14, 2014 04:35 PM (JtwS4)
My Girlfriend currently pays over $9K a year, just for herself.
Plus deductibles and copays.
It's designed so that no one who pays gets benefits, in order to pay for those who pay nothing.
Posted by: --- at November 14, 2014 04:35 PM (MMC8r)
Posted by: flounder at November 14, 2014 04:31 PM (sDapq)
No. In a perfect world he'd be before a military tribunal in Burma, and the tribunal members would be really grim-faced and looking at their watches while Barky was trying to get off the hook.
Posted by: Jay Guevara at November 14, 2014 04:35 PM (oKE6c)
Yes well obviously.
I was being dramatic for a point. My point being, since costs keep exploding at some point what is considered not a Cadillac plan isn't something you'd consider a "health insurance benefit" anymore.
Ohz, and here's a cool trick, apparently the definition of "compensation" under the plan (according ott he American Health Policy institute) includes premiums (paid for by either the employee or the employer!) HRA, HSA, and reimbursements from flex spending accounts.
If I'm reading this right, that means that if you load a flex spending account (you're own fucking money) to cover your brand new raised deductible it counts towards the "Cadillac tax."
So lowering benefits might not even help dodge it, if people just react by putting more money in FSAs.
Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) And father to be in 2 months! at November 14, 2014 04:35 PM (HDwDg)
Posted by: n at November 14, 2014 04:35 PM (iBXmZ)
Posted by: Stew Pidlib at November 14, 2014 04:35 PM (1Y+hH)
Posted by: n at November 14, 2014 04:36 PM (iBXmZ)
-
Back during Gulf War I, I got an email from Uday and Kousay (or however you spell their camel loving names).
Posted by: The Great White Snark at November 14, 2014 04:36 PM (XUKZU)
Posted by: The Jackhole at November 14, 2014 04:36 PM (6/J77)
Posted by: Stew Pidlib at November 14, 2014 04:36 PM (1Y+hH)
Posted by: Chris_Balsz at November 14, 2014 04:36 PM (pYEaj)
Posted by: walknot at November 14, 2014 04:36 PM (86zol)
Dear Friend:
I am Dr. Jonathan Gruber, PhD of MIT and an advisor to President Obama. Recently, I had to go into hiding but have access to $400 million dollars of excess Massachusetts Medicaid funds.
Please send me $5000 US via Western Union to cover all modalities and I will send you $50million US for your help.
Remain blessed.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton
-------------
ROFL
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at November 14, 2014 04:36 PM (l1zOH)
Posted by: rickb223 at November 14, 2014 03:52 PM (AAJX/)
DUDE!!!! You win the interwebz for that. Fucking brilliant.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 14, 2014 04:36 PM (CMkNk)
Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at November 14, 2014 04:32 PM (vPh3W)
Well from context I think he was talking about the ability (as opposed to desire) to get rid of ObamaCare and he was probably right at that time. So his opinion has likely changed somewhat since then.
And yes I hate having to defend John McCain who I've been ready to see leave the political sphere since 2000.
Posted by: Maetenloch at November 14, 2014 04:36 PM (pAlYe)
Obamacare, and echoing the meme that the law should not be interpreted literally."
What the figurative fuck??
So, what, we should start reading legal matter metaphorically?
This country needs an enema.
Posted by: Burn the Witch at November 14, 2014 04:37 PM (xSCb6)
Posted by: dfbaskwill at November 14, 2014 04:37 PM (BXpDr)
Posted by: Truck Monkey, Aiming His Torpedo at November 14, 2014 04:34 PM (32Ze2)
I'm hoping for the highest honor: a sequined jock strap, with appropriate insignia of rank.
Posted by: Jay Guevara at November 14, 2014 04:37 PM (oKE6c)
-
The head honcho of Venezuela has ordered the price of TVs and other popular items to be lowered for Christmas. That'll work out well.
Posted by: The Great White Snark at November 14, 2014 04:37 PM (XUKZU)
Posted by: YourMomKeepsTexting at November 14, 2014 04:37 PM (ks56A)
They are like my dog, scratching dirt over a poo.
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at November 14, 2014 04:37 PM (l1zOH)
- Approve of the deliberate obfuscation of key elements?
- Know about or participate in this deceptive practice?
- If not, why did you cast your vote in support of something for which you were so unfamiliar?
Posted by: goatexchange at November 14, 2014 04:37 PM (sYUHT)
Posted by: Super Creepy Rob Lowe at November 14, 2014 04:37 PM (oDCMR)
My Girlfriend currently pays over $9K a year, just for herself.
Plus deductibles and copays.
It's designed so that no one who pays gets benefits, in order to pay for those who pay nothing.
Posted by: --- at November 14, 2014 04:35 PM (MMC8r)
********
It works like communism.
Brings everyone down to average and the few decide what is good for the many.
Gruber--and Hillary--and maybe Larry Summers.
You can bet this is just phase one of Hillary Care--they had this crap ready to roll since then.
Posted by: Your Friendly Danube River Guide at November 14, 2014 04:38 PM (RJMhd)
Have you ever read Scamorama.com? It's people who spend all day scamming the Nigerian scammers.
Funny stuff.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 14, 2014 04:38 PM (CMkNk)
Neither Romney nor McCain devoted any energy or money to oppo, because the whole point of oppo is to dig up stuff with which to attack your adversary, and neither man had any stomach for direct attacks on Historic First.
Posted by: torquewrench at November 14, 2014 04:38 PM (noWW6)
Posted by: Bandersnatch at November 14, 2014 04:35 PM (JtwS4)
That's right. Yet another reason I am the single handed downfall of Western Civilization.
BC! For to be bringing me some pop!
Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Now with extra taunting. at November 14, 2014 04:38 PM (mf5HN)
The Houston LGBTXYZ moved next years Pride parade from its historic route to one in/near the city center and moved it one week earlier. Ooops. That is the same time as the Juneteenth celebration. No. No. No. No. Well, after an exciting meeting of the LGBTXYZ and teenthies, Pride has now been moved back to its traditional week.
Posted by: RioBravo at November 14, 2014 04:38 PM (SaMXZ)
Yep. Here's a great illustration of that. I had some blood work done yesterday. They asked for my insurance information and I explained I was in a cost share and that I could either pay up front or they could bill me, but either way the cost-share would reimburse me directly.
This confused them, but they went ahead and rang up my bill right there.
They first gave me the rate for someone who has insurance, but a high deductible. $296.
I clarified that what I have is NOT insurance and I should be given the self pay rate. $45
The insurance system is set up to screw the consumer. Opt out.
Posted by: Lauren at November 14, 2014 04:39 PM (BPMYx)
- Approve of the deliberate obfuscation of key elements?
- Know about or participate in this deceptive practice?
- If not, why did you cast your vote in support of something for which you were so unfamiliar?
--------------------------------
Because Harry Reid told him to. Simple really.
Posted by: Super Creepy Rob Lowe at November 14, 2014 04:39 PM (oDCMR)
Its why the only answer is not to pay.
Posted by: Bigby's Latex Gloves at November 14, 2014 04:39 PM (3ZtZW)
At least auto insurance is tied to driving... ie, if you don't drive you don't need it...
This is tied to Existing... to living...
Unless of course, you are in a specific group that does not have to do it for religious reasons.
Posted by: Romeo13 at November 14, 2014 04:24 PM (f0pWu)
If you live and work in a big city, perhaps driving isn't tied to your living. But for most people I know, it is.
If you can't drive, you can't make a living.
I see the Mandatory Health Insurance Law in exactly the same light as a Mandatory Auto Insurance law.
Neither one of them is an appropriate use of governmental power.
Posted by: D-Lamp at November 14, 2014 04:39 PM (txvbW)
Posted by: rickb223 at November 14, 2014 04:39 PM (AAJX/)
Posted by: Super Creepy Rob Lowe at November 14, 2014 04:37 PM (oDCMR)
Wrong.
They. Don't. Fucking. Care. Period.
They are not wired to think like normal people.
I now return you to your regularly scheduled crisis.
Posted by: Sean Bannion at November 14, 2014 04:39 PM (V+kmg)
Posted by: Marvin the Mechanical at November 14, 2014 04:39 PM (bv57/)
Posted by: Jay
---------------
Edited for ..., well, because I wanted to.
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at November 14, 2014 04:39 PM (l1zOH)
Yet another reason I am the single handed downfall of Western Civilization.
Unpossible.
You don't exist.
Posted by: Bandersnatch at November 14, 2014 04:40 PM (JtwS4)
Smart girl.
Health insurance, home mortgage interest, kids, can in a business analogy be viewed as expenses.
So are rent, food, heat, and the twelve bags of chocolate I keep in my desk to keep from shanking people, but I get to pay all that out of what's left after I pay taxes, which are extremely fucking exorbitant because I never whelped any deductions (thanks for the phrase, Bandersnatch).
Posted by: HR needs donuts at November 14, 2014 04:40 PM (ZKzrr)
Isn't it wise to assume they're doing the exact same thing right now with Amnesty?
They'll tell us it's not Amnesty, when it is.
And they'll tell us that the border will be secured, when it won't.
And they'll tell us that the illegals will pay a fine and back-taxes, when they won't.
And the biggest lie of all: They'll tell us that the illegal immigration problem IS OVER FOREVER, which it won't be.
Posted by: Soothsayer, All Knowing Of (Approximate) Knowledge at November 14, 2014 04:40 PM (+f7H2)
Posted by: Meremortal at November 14, 2014 04:40 PM (1Y+hH)
Posted by: Meremortal at November 14, 2014 04:40 PM (1Y+hH)
Posted by: The Jackhole at November 14, 2014 04:40 PM (6/J77)
Posted by: Your Friendly Danube River Guide at November 14, 2014 04:38 PM (RJMhd)
THIS.
All 2000 pages were there since at least 93 if not earlier. They started scrambling - and hence making mistakes like the severability clause omission - to edit it up to present day and voila. Instant nationalization of one sixth of the economy and life and death control over 315 million proles.
What's not to like?
I really hate these bastards.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 14, 2014 04:40 PM (CMkNk)
Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Now with extra taunting. at November 14, 2014 04:38 PM (mf5HN)
BC is off ogling KimK right now, my Queen.
Your requested pop.
..and a lemon square.
Posted by: Sean Bannion at November 14, 2014 04:41 PM (V+kmg)
Posted by: Meremortal at November 14, 2014 04:41 PM (1Y+hH)
- Approve of the deliberate obfuscation of key elements?
- Know about or participate in this deceptive practice?
- If not, why did you cast your vote in support of something for which you were so unfamiliar?
--------------------------------
Because Harry Reid told him to. Simple really.
-
I vas only followink orders.
Posted by: The Great White Snark at November 14, 2014 04:41 PM (XUKZU)
Posted by: Bandersnatch
That's right. Yet another reason I am the single handed downfall of Western Civilization.
BC! For to be bringing me some pop!
What does childless homeowner equal?
Posted by: rickb223 at November 14, 2014 04:41 PM (AAJX/)
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at November 14, 2014 04:41 PM (39g3+)
Posted by: Lauren at November 14, 2014 04:27 PM (BPMYx)
--------------------------------------------
And then the outcry. And then the rationing to cut costs. And then the "path to the fields of ambrosia". Then the limits on age and euthenasia.
Posted by: Soona at November 14, 2014 04:41 PM (toS2K)
Public health issue. I propose piano wire in elevator shafts to be the superior option.
Posted by: Broth-R-CVL at November 14, 2014 04:41 PM (zWC0k)
Posted by: RioBravo at November 14, 2014 04:42 PM (SaMXZ)
The opposition party could really tear them a new one over this ! I'm gonna make popcorn and watch !
Wait, what ?
Oh, yeah.
Posted by: sock_rat_eez, life member of the pro-dog party at November 14, 2014 04:42 PM (go6ud)
You don't exist.
Posted by: Bandersnatch at November 14, 2014 04:40 PM (JtwS4)
Yeah. Tell that to the stupid beta meat sack.
Today's panther like reflex trick? Smashing myself in the face with a ream of paper.
Specialest. Snowflake. Evah.
Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Now with extra taunting. at November 14, 2014 04:42 PM (mf5HN)
Steiner!
--------------------------
Gruber's forces have been routed. Steiner is our only hope!
Posted by: Super Creepy Rob Lowe at November 14, 2014 04:42 PM (oDCMR)
Posted by: Nevergiveup at November 14, 2014 04:42 PM (nzKvP)
Check your W2.
Posted by: rickb223 at November 14, 2014 04:42 PM (AAJX/)
Posted by: THE TICK at November 14, 2014 04:42 PM (SOuy4)
Posted by: Addison Mitchell McConnell, Jr. at November 14, 2014 04:42 PM (XzRw1)
They'd only be flop-sweating if a) the law goes down in flames entirely and b) the old system, flawed as it was, is restored.
Option A could happen but how the hell do we get back to B if A occurs?
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 14, 2014 04:42 PM (CMkNk)
Posted by: RioBravo
-------------------
Why the conflict? Gheys suffer just as slaves did, right?
Posted by: LBGT LIV at November 14, 2014 04:43 PM (l1zOH)
Posted by: Barky McPhuckstick at November 14, 2014 04:43 PM (bUmSq)
Romney couldn't attack ObamaCare, because of RomneyCare.
Posted by: ---
Today's Gruber thread over at HotAir is kinda fun in a sad way. Romneybots coming out of the woodwork to defend Der Mitt. Calling Gruber a minor player, saying Mitt was a victim who had to sign something* because the Dems had majorities and claiming Romneycare was working great, until Obama eff'd it up.
And so on.
Tres amuse.
*while Mitt could find his yes pen, his veto pen was like totally lost.
Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at November 14, 2014 04:43 PM (kdS6q)
It's cool, there's two of us.
Posted by: HR needs donuts at November 14, 2014 04:43 PM (ZKzrr)
Posted by: Soothsayer, All Knowing Of (Approximate) Knowledge at November 14, 2014 04:43 PM (+f7H2)
Posted by: Phinae at November 14, 2014 04:43 PM (sYUHT)
Posted by: rickb223 at November 14, 2014 04:41 PM (AAJX/)
Depends... do you still owe on your mortgage? If so the State will help you with a deduction on your interest...
If you actually OWN the place... well... property Tax Bub...
They say the Interest deduction is to get more people to buy homes... but if so, why is it tied to your DEBT, and not the cost of the Home?
Posted by: Romeo13 at November 14, 2014 04:44 PM (f0pWu)
Back during the Bush Administration, this line was a staple of every show, every story.
Now, not so much.
The stock market is down "... and how will this affect the President"
Iraqi insurgents attack again "... and how will this affect the President"
Freddie Mac under the outstanding leadership of Franklin Raines "... and how will this affect the President"
... but I haven't heard ...
VA scandal "... and how will this affect the President"
ObamaDoesn'tCare web site down "... and how will this affect the President"
Benghazi "... and how will this affect the President"
IRS scandal "... and how will this affect the President"
Fast and Furious "... and how will this affect the President"
Solyndra "... and how will this affect the President"
Gruber scandal "... and how will this affect the President"
Joe Biden is a jerk "... and how will this affect the President"
Posted by: Islamic Rage Boy at November 14, 2014 04:44 PM (e8kgV)
It was our own celebrated President Historic First© who asked for, provided pressure to pass, and is ultimately responsible for the whole ChoomCare Plan. All of it. Every last fraud, every lie, every evasion.
And it is the Mocha Messiah who will, within weeks, add the burden of tens of millions of illegals to this, and every other, government operation.
Not Gruber.
So I don't care what this "Gruber" says. Why worry about a minor functionary when it is all part of President I Stand With Muslims's scheme?
It's easier, I guess. And doesn't have nearly the potential for Bad Optics, the way clamoring for some horribly racist and divisive thing like impeachment does. Only thing is: one way leads to ultimately accepting undeserved suffering for millions of Americans. Thge other might, conceivably, save us.
Posted by: MrScribbler at November 14, 2014 04:44 PM (PoKIA)
Public health issue. I propose piano wire in elevator shafts to be the superior option.
--------------------------
With shooting pits we solve two problems with one stone - teaching our betters to mind their own business and shovel ready jobs. Oh, a third, reducing global warming.
Posted by: Super Creepy Rob Lowe at November 14, 2014 04:44 PM (oDCMR)
-
In many ways, depriving gheys of wedding cakes is just like slavery.
Posted by: The Great White Snark at November 14, 2014 04:44 PM (XUKZU)
Yes, well Chargemasters and their ilk are a problem as well.
Indeed, the entire purpose of a chargemaster is to scare the living shit out of the consumer to coerce them into paying a still higher than it should be rate (but feeling like they dodged a bullet.)
But I say this from experience: if you tell that to a group of Catholic Hospital executives (while making the argument that they should abandon chargemasters for price transparency) THEY WILL RUN YOU OUT ON A RAIL.
If only Christ were back to get rid of the fucking money changers with that whip of his.
Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) And father to be in 2 months! at November 14, 2014 04:44 PM (HDwDg)
Posted by: Bob Dole at November 14, 2014 04:44 PM (JtwS4)
Posted by: Bob Dole at November 14, 2014 04:44 PM (JtwS4)
Posted by: Jean at November 14, 2014 04:44 PM (TETYm)
Posted by: rickb223 at November 14, 2014 04:41 PM (AAJX/)
*checks chart*
Lemme see, lemme see, that makes you a fellow traveler.
I'll just pencil you in to bring Jell-o salad to the next meeting.
Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Now with extra taunting. at November 14, 2014 04:44 PM (mf5HN)
Why, leading the discussions on how to kill the health care plan tax exemption, of course!
This is what I expected to be on all the news last night.
I read this yesterday, and thought it to be THE smoking gun.
Last night? Crickets.
Posted by: artisanal 'ette at November 14, 2014 04:45 PM (IXrOn)
Posted by: Addison Mitchell McConnell, Jr. at November 14, 2014 04:45 PM (XzRw1)
Senator Warner - As your vote helped to pass ACA, did you:
- Approve of the deliberate obfuscation of key elements?
- Know about or participate in this deceptive practice?
- If not, why did you cast your vote in support of something for which you were so unfamiliar?
Posted by: goatexchange at November 14, 2014 04:37 PM (sYUHT)
Awesome. Stealing for Senators Cantwell and Murray (D) WA.
Posted by: flounder at November 14, 2014 04:45 PM (sDapq)
Posted by: The Jackhole at November 14, 2014 04:45 PM (6/J77)
In return, it graduates great masses of unemployable Grievance Studies majors saddled with immense levels of debt.....'cause they're ever-so-likely to become Republicans.
Posted by: cthulhu at November 14, 2014 04:29 PM (T1005)
I've been saying for a long time that we have been needing to nuke the finances of the socialist colleges for a very long time.
Cut their financial throats, then see how much trouble they can stir up.
Posted by: D-Lamp at November 14, 2014 04:45 PM (txvbW)
431 Wait, did I just read a comment where the employee faces a tax on benefits for the money the employer pays towards the employee's cadillac health care plan?
Check your W2.
Posted by: rickb223 at November 14, 2014 04:42 PM (AAJX/)
If over a certain threshold, and starts in 2018
Posted by: Romeo13 at November 14, 2014 04:45 PM (f0pWu)
They first gave me the rate for someone who has insurance, but a high deductible. $296.
I clarified that what I have is NOT insurance and I should be given the self pay rate. $45
Here's a major point of the bullshit: There aren't real prices.
What's the price of a doctor visit? Well, it depends what artificial rate they want it charged at.
The idea of 'expense+overhead+profit= price' doesn't apply here. It's a shellgame of obfuscation and price shifting.
But to the Big Brains like Gruber, it's perfectly natural, so the idea of paying the doctor in cash from a simple rate card is laughably naive and here come the millions of pages of regulations and camoflage and bureaucracy.
Posted by: --- at November 14, 2014 04:45 PM (MMC8r)
Pff that's nothing. I punched myself in the fact last week trying to start the weed eater. loosened a tooth, fat lip, incredibly stupid.
Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) And father to be in 2 months! at November 14, 2014 04:45 PM (HDwDg)
They say the Interest deduction is to get more people to buy homes... but if so, why is it tied to your DEBT, and not the cost of the Home?
That is an interesting point.
Posted by: Bandersnatch at November 14, 2014 04:46 PM (JtwS4)
.
That's a damn shame.
Posted by: HR needs donuts at November 14, 2014 04:46 PM (ZKzrr)
Is Le Roi Bumfarht back on US soil yet? Or, let's reword: Has Le Roi soiled his bumfarht yet over Gruber?
I am sure they are working on the wording of the "mis-speaking" and "out of context" messaging. Pity about the videos and the now identified stupid Americans.
Posted by: ChristyBlinky at November 14, 2014 04:46 PM (dMEBN)
I hereby submit: "Gruebbels."
This one.
I'll go full Godwin and note that Hitler was democratically elected.
Posted by: fluffy at November 14, 2014 04:46 PM (Ua6T/)
Posted by: Jean at November 14, 2014 04:46 PM (TETYm)
Posted by: Steiner at November 14, 2014 04:47 PM (evdj2)
The new employer is killing it after 2015. Surprise! Not. And it's gone up 20%, but it beats the hell out of what it will cost me again in 2016. Scratch that. I'll be paying the penalty too, just like the employer because...it's. fucking.cheaper.
Posted by: DefendUSA at November 14, 2014 04:47 PM (nAHMK)
Play this, then ask the people on Live TV if the government should be shut down until Obama is out of office.
Show the people why if TFG pens a free pass to illegals why this is unconstitutional and that it is impeachable.
Time to start addressing the people on Live TV, at Prime
Time.
Otherwise, black holes.
Posted by: artisanal 'ette at November 14, 2014 04:47 PM (IXrOn)
Posted by: Jay
---------------
Edited for ..., well, because I wanted to.
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at November 14, 2014 04:39 PM (l1zOH)
Mike, let's split the difference: sequined thong. Cool?
Posted by: Jay Guevara at November 14, 2014 04:47 PM (oKE6c)
Posted by: --- at November 14, 2014 04:47 PM (MMC8r)
No. No. No.
There is no amount of reality which will ever have an impact on them. No failure to great, no embarrassment too public. None.
Think of every liberal you've ever known, take their congenital disconnection from reality to the 23d power, and there you have every member of the Obama Administration.
They simply do not care.
We are proles, and a fuck they do not give.
We are their toys. If the experiment fails, there's still that cushy chair if Queer Theory at Harvard to be had.
They are sociopaths. Period.
Posted by: Sean Bannion at November 14, 2014 04:48 PM (V+kmg)
And that's IF they're paying attention to it.
Posted by: Bitter Clinger and All That at November 14, 2014 04:32 PM (KK+mC)
That's what I said. There is no deus ex machina.
Posted by: D-Lamp at November 14, 2014 04:48 PM (txvbW)
I'll go full Godwin and note that Hitler was democratically elected.
Not really. Led a party that had a plurality in the Reichstag. Got appointed Chancellor. Burned the Reichstag.
Posted by: Bandersnatch at November 14, 2014 04:48 PM (JtwS4)
insurance for two decades. If the state feels that such a thing is
necessary, this service ought to be supplied by the state.
Mixing private industry up in what is an ostensible government requirement is just asking for moral hazards.
Posted by: D-Lamp at November 14, 2014 04:21 PM (txvbW)
No, you don't want the government to be the sole (or even one of the) provider(s) of auto insurance. Rates go up, and payments to injured parties go down, and getting any kind of result takes longer. And you cannot sue. Read about the history of grief with ICBC in British Columbia. I knew a woman who went there to work for ICBC, and she (illegally) kept an Alberta address and insured her truck there because it was vastly cheaper.
And liability insurance at least has to be mandatory, because that protects other users of the roads, not you. I don't mind if you hit the ditch, and get a broken neck and can't work, but if you run a light, and hit my car, and I get a broken neck and can't work, I don't want to be suing you to get a 1990 Escort and a single-wide.
Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at November 14, 2014 04:48 PM (7MWCL)
These videos.
I question the timing.
Posted by: Meremortal at November 14, 2014 04:40 PM (1Y+hH)
Yep. Said that yesterday. Couldn't be better timing for the 2016 elections.
Posted by: flounder at November 14, 2014 04:48 PM (sDapq)
I hereby submit: "Gruebbels."
This one.
I'll go full Godwin and note that Hitler was democratically elected.
-------------------------
And like Obama, he was an import.
Posted by: Super Creepy Rob Lowe at November 14, 2014 04:48 PM (oDCMR)
Posted by: Lovable, furry old Gruber at November 14, 2014 04:49 PM (vgIRn)
Posted by: seems legit at November 14, 2014 04:49 PM (A98Xu)
Posted by: Jean at November 14, 2014 04:49 PM (TETYm)
Are these really the people who are passed off as "really smart?"
Posted by: seems legit at November 14, 2014 04:32 PM (A98Xu)
It has long been my opinion that an Ivy League education means you are automatically disqualified from holding any position of power or influence.
Long history of incredible dumbasses coming from such institutions, and the worst of it is they never realize how stupid they are. Well, McNamara did at the last, sort of.
Posted by: D-Lamp at November 14, 2014 04:50 PM (txvbW)
I'll go full Godwin and note that Hitler was democratically elected.
Not really. Led a party that had a plurality in the Reichstag. Got appointed Chancellor. Burned the Reichstag.
-------------------------------
Do you not see any similarities with Obama shutting down the House once his party lost the leadership?
Posted by: Super Creepy Rob Lowe at November 14, 2014 04:50 PM (oDCMR)
Posted by: garrett at November 14, 2014 04:50 PM (tVcxu)
FFS
I laughed out loud. Yarrr!
Posted by: toby928(C) at November 14, 2014 04:50 PM (evdj2)
If Schikelgruber had only kept his big pie-hole shut. But hubris will get you every time.
This is a BIG fucking deal all around. The Supremes better be paying attention but if past is prologue, I hold out no false hopes.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 14, 2014 04:50 PM (CMkNk)
REPEAL, REPLACE, IMPEACH
Posted by: Nevergiveup at November 14, 2014 04:42 PM (nzKvP)
. . . IMPRISON
Posted by: flounder at November 14, 2014 04:50 PM (sDapq)
We are the other people
We are the other people
We are the other people
You're the other people too
Found a way to get to you . . .
Do you think that I'm crazy?
Out of my mind?
Do you think that I creep in the night
And sleep in a phone booth?
Posted by: toby928(C) at November 14, 2014 04:51 PM (evdj2)
They are like my dog, scratching dirt over a poo.
Posted by: Mike Hammer,
They have a couple of stories now in the Politics section, FWIW.
Posted by: weft cut-loop at November 14, 2014 04:52 PM (/lTUs)
Posted by: Jean at November 14, 2014 04:52 PM (TETYm)
Worse: if this experiment fails he'll still get tenured chair of Health Policy at Harvard.
Meanwhile Milton Fucking Friedman probably wouldn't get a job in today's academic environment.
Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) And father to be in 2 months! at November 14, 2014 04:52 PM (HDwDg)
The Republicans must reject the extremists and work with the president to fix the ACA without destroying lives.
Posted by: Susan Olivia Cuthbertson-Klein at November 14, 2014 04:52 PM (Ks4nX)
The other thing if not obvious before, it wasn't just a campaign line, If you like your plan, you can keep your plan.... it was a knowing lie by Obama.
Posted by: Guy Mohawk at November 14, 2014 04:52 PM (1nB6R)
The White House should use Ace's Flaming Skull as the logo for the upcoming Obamacare Death Panels.
Posted by: zombie at November 14, 2014 04:53 PM (K4YiS)
Lemme take a minute & tell you my plan
Lemme take a minute & tell who I am
If it doesn't show,
Think you better know
I'm another person
Do you think that my pants are too tight?
Do you think that I'm creepy?
Lemme take a minute & tell you my plan
Lemme take a minute & tell who I am
If it doesn't show
Think you better know
I'm another person
Better look around before you say you don't care
Shut your fuckin' mouth about the length of my hair
How would you survive
If you were alive
Shitty little person?
Posted by: toby928(C) at November 14, 2014 04:53 PM (evdj2)
Posted by: weft cut-loop at November 14, 2014 04:52 PM (/lTUs)
Ace's link tells me CNN thinks they may have found the missing airplane.
Posted by: jwb7605 at November 14, 2014 04:53 PM (ZALPg)
Posted by: Nevergiveup at November 14, 2014 04:42 PM (nzKvP)
. . . IMPRISON
Posted by: flounder at November 14, 2014 04:50 PM (sDapq)
Thanks. Great addition
Posted by: Nevergiveup at November 14, 2014 04:53 PM (nzKvP)
Gruber Has Made At Least $5.9 Million For Government Work http://dailycaller.com/2014/11/14/gruber-has-made-at-least-5-9-million-for-government-work/
Posted by: Costanza Defense at November 14, 2014 04:54 PM (ZPrif)
They got Obama involved in it. He took time off from being pre-retired to pretend to listen to gruber.
Posted by: joe-impeachin44 at November 14, 2014 04:54 PM (bhwH/)
Posted by: Mitt Romney at November 14, 2014 04:54 PM (Qgr71)
Posted by: Nevergiveup at November 14, 2014 04:54 PM (nzKvP)
That works.
Posted by: rickb223 at November 14, 2014 04:54 PM (AAJX/)
Posted by: Nevergiveup at November 14, 2014 04:42 PM (nzKvP)
. . . IMPRISON
Posted by: flounder at November 14, 2014 04:50 PM (sDapq)
INSEMINATE.
Posted by: --- at November 14, 2014 04:55 PM (MMC8r)
Posted by: Nevergiveup at November 14, 2014 04:42 PM (nzKvP)
. . . IMPRISON
Posted by: flounder at November 14, 2014 04:50 PM
After Steps One through Four are fully implemented: IGNORE.
That will hurt Choom Boy most of all.
Posted by: MrScribbler at November 14, 2014 04:55 PM (PoKIA)
Posted by: zombie at November 14, 2014 04:55 PM (K4YiS)
Posted by: Jose La TaTa at November 14, 2014 04:56 PM (/nR7C)
Posted by: Nevergiveup at November 14, 2014 04:54 PM (nzKvP)
The end of democracy in America ended with LBJ's "great society".
Posted by: jwb7605 at November 14, 2014 04:56 PM (ZALPg)
Social media has really loosed the restraints on idiocy.
Posted by: --- at November 14, 2014 04:56 PM (MMC8r)
Posted by: rickb223 at November 14, 2014 04:57 PM (AAJX/)
The Houston LGBTXYZ moved next years Pride parade from its historic route to one in/near the city center and moved it one week earlier. Ooops. That is the same time as the Juneteenth celebration. No. No. No. No. Well, after an exciting meeting of the LGBTXYZ and teenthies, Pride has now been moved back to its traditional week.
Posted by: RioBravo at November 14, 2014 04:38 PM (SaMXZ)
That's a shame. I can't think of a more useful juxtaposition. Blacks hate being compared to queers. They hate that the queers are using the old civil rights language too.
Getting elements of the Democrat party to fight amongst themselves is not a bad thing.
Posted by: D-Lamp at November 14, 2014 04:57 PM (txvbW)
Posted by: zombie at November 14, 2014 04:57 PM (K4YiS)
Well from context I think he was talking about the ability (as opposed to desire) to get rid of ObamaCare and he was probably right at that time. So his opinion has likely changed somewhat since then.
And yes I hate having to defend John McCain who I've been ready to see leave the political sphere since 2000.
Posted by: Maetenloch at November 14, 2014 04:36 PM (pAlYe
I've wanted him gone since the 90s. And with him ability and desire are not separate.
Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at November 14, 2014 04:57 PM (vPh3W)
Posted by: fluffy at November 14, 2014 04:57 PM (Ua6T/)
Posted by: toby928(C) at November 14, 2014 04:57 PM (evdj2)
Speaking of impeachment, why not do it with a simple majority and via budget reconciliation?
Heh. Sauce for the commie goose.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 14, 2014 04:58 PM (CMkNk)
doing will be the end of democracy in America as we know it. It IS as
serious as that.
Posted by: Nevergiveup at November 14, 2014 04:54 PM
Bitch McConnell, Johnny Boner and the "conservative" media, led by Poppin' Fresh, beg to differ with you.
What a terrible message it would send if people thought Republicans were actually going to stand up against lawlessness....
Posted by: MrScribbler at November 14, 2014 04:58 PM (PoKIA)
No replace, restore previous laws & while restoring previous laws Pre 1965 Immigration Law!
Posted by: Carol at November 14, 2014 04:58 PM (sj3Ax)
They do, that's why all those are fcuked up too.
Posted by: DaveA at November 14, 2014 04:58 PM (DL2i+)
We are the other people
We are the other people
We are the other people
You're the other people too
Found a way to get to you
We are the other people
We are the other people
We are the other people
You're the other people too
Found a way to get to you
Do you think that I love you . . .
Stupid & blind?
Do you think that I dream through the night
Of holding you near me?
Lemme take a minute & tell you my plan
Lemme take a minute & tell who I am
If it doesn't show
Think you better know
I'm another person
Posted by: toby928(C) at November 14, 2014 04:58 PM (evdj2)
Posted by: Nanci Pelosi, with apologies to Carl Sandberg at November 14, 2014 04:58 PM (l1zOH)
Just got here, haven't read the comments.
Is this the worst, or is the dude saying there's even worse?
I'm guessing this is what he was talking about...how much worse could it get? Obama cackling evilly about death panels or something??
Posted by: Mama AJ at November 14, 2014 04:59 PM (0xTsz)
Posted by: toby928(C) at November 14, 2014 04:57 PM (evdj2)
Or just be forced to watch Nick Cage in it.
Posted by: Bob's House of Flannel Shirts and Wallet Chains at November 14, 2014 04:59 PM (vgIRn)
Serious question: Do you think the Jews in Austria and in Germany and the rest of the world used to say, Oh that Adolf Hitler, what a dummy!?
Do you think the Jews in the camps used to sit around and mock Hitler for being stupid?
obama and The Left have been perpetrating pure evil on us and yet we still say obama is dumb, Harvard is dumb, obama is incompetent, etc.
Posted by: Soothsayer, All Knowing Of (Approximate) Knowledge at November 14, 2014 04:59 PM (+f7H2)
They got Obama involved in it. He took time off from being pre-retired to pretend to listen to gruber.
Posted by: joe-impeachin44 at November 14, 2014 04:54 PM (bhwH/)
Retouched photo of SCOAMF playing solitaire on his Blackberry as Shickelgruber talks in the background. Then he looks up and says, "wuzzat?"
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 14, 2014 04:59 PM (CMkNk)
Posted by: Bertram Cabot Jr. at November 14, 2014 04:59 PM (W5DcG)
Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at November 14, 2014 04:57 PM (vPh3W)
Bob Dole would agree but Bob Dole does not want competition selling Viagra.
Posted by: Bob Dole at November 14, 2014 04:59 PM (ZALPg)
Posted by: Jinx the Cat at November 14, 2014 05:00 PM (l3vZN)
And the definition of Conspiracy....
Put them together...
This is JAIL TIME stuff...
Hmmm... thinking on it... there are STATE laws against both fraud and Conspiracy....
Texas maybe?
Posted by: Romeo13 at November 14, 2014 05:00 PM (f0pWu)
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 14, 2014 04:50 PM (CMkNk)
------------------------------------------------
*sitting in a dark study tenderly going through the picture albums of his adopted children*
Posted by: John Roberts at November 14, 2014 05:00 PM (toS2K)
In the next video, Gruber will be wearing scarlet robes and sacrificing a newborn to Obamus.
Posted by: toby928(C) at November 14, 2014 05:00 PM (evdj2)
Eating Gruber peas
Goodness, how delicious,
Eating Gruber peas
Posted by: Nanci Pelosi, with apologies to Carl Sandberg
RAY-CISS!!
(Originally sung by the Georgia Militia in the Civil War.)
Posted by: zombie at November 14, 2014 05:00 PM (K4YiS)
Posted by: Soothsayer, All Knowing Of (Approximate) Knowledge at November 14, 2014 04:59 PM (+f7H2)
---
Point taken. They are doing evil to this country, to its citizens. They also do a lot of very dumb things.
Posted by: seems legit at November 14, 2014 05:00 PM (A98Xu)
Obamacare is yet again in the crosshairs. It's his baby. He needs the biggest SQUIRREL! in the history of rodentry to get people off the Obamacare Frankenstein analysis.
Enter Amnesty. SCoaMF couldn't wait even a week to flog it despite demanding that Congress needs to send him yet another GOP version of a bill from a GOP-controlled Congress not even seated. It's like his schedule was expedited for some reason.
I wonder what that reason could be? Well, while you're thinking, SQUIRREL!
Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at November 14, 2014 05:00 PM (1CroS)
Posted by: Barky McPhuckstick at November 14, 2014 05:02 PM (bUmSq)
Tip would have done it. LBJ would have had them in the lean and rest all day.
Posted by: Jean at November 14, 2014 05:02 PM (TETYm)
There's a video, supposedly, of Gruber twisting his long mustache and laughing maniacally, Mwah-hah-hah!. I dunno if it's true.
Posted by: Soothsayer, All Knowing Of (Approximate) Knowledge at November 14, 2014 05:02 PM (+f7H2)
Posted by: Jon Gruber at November 14, 2014 05:02 PM (ZPrif)
Posted by: Nanci Pelosi, with apologies to Carl Sandberg at November 14, 2014 05:03 PM (l1zOH)
Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at November 14, 2014 05:04 PM (8ZskC)
And the definition of Conspiracy....
Put them together...
This is JAIL TIME stuff...
Hmmm... thinking on it... there are STATE laws against both fraud and Conspiracy....
Texas maybe?
Posted by: Romeo13 at November 14, 2014 05:00 PM (f0pWu)
The key to this (IMAO) is to tie enough remaining Dem Senators (especially those up for election next time) to Gruber in order to muster enough votes to override a veto of the repeal effort.
I don't think it would be all that difficult. Two years of this stuff, and the Democrat party in general will look worse than the Republicans just after Nixon.
Posted by: jwb7605 at November 14, 2014 05:04 PM (ZALPg)
Serious question: Do you think the Jews in Austria and in Germany and the rest of the world used to say, Oh that Adolf Hitler, what a dummy!?
Do you think the Jews in the camps used to sit around and mock Hitler for being stupid?
obama and The Left have been perpetrating pure evil on us and yet we still say obama is dumb, Harvard is dumb, obama is incompetent, etc.
Posted by: Soothsayer, All Knowing Of (Approximate) Knowledge at November 14, 2014 04:59 PM (+f7H2)
Speaking from 2nd hand experience, people laughed at him but after '33 as the shit got worse, they did all they could to escape. As bad as things were, could anyone imagine the mass shootings into ditches and then the gas chambers? No. My mom's family was in Hungary and were the last Jews to be deported. Escapees came and told them what was going on but many accused them of fear mongering and refused to listen, though many did though really were already trapped. Even as the cars were unloaded at Auschwitz, a woman was told by a sonderkommando what was going to happen and she started screaming. The SS beat and tortured her until she told them who told her. They took the man and threw him alive into the ovens and then shot the woman on the spot as a warning.
People cannot imagine the inhumanity and the possibility and warning signs of things to come. It's just human nature/defense mechanism which sometimes can betray us.
PS:
(Thank you for closing the border, Cordell Hull and the State Dept.)
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 14, 2014 05:05 PM (CMkNk)
Posted by: SpongeBobSaget at November 14, 2014 05:05 PM (zauWW)
Posted by: --- at November 14, 2014 05:05 PM (MMC8r)
Posted by: rickb223 at November 14, 2014 04:41 PM (AAJX/)
Double-plus ungood. You (and me) are depriving some family with children of a home. Because housing is a zero-sum game, doncha know?
Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at November 14, 2014 05:05 PM (7MWCL)
Take #2: none of this matters politically. Nobody who didn't care before will understand it now. It's too complicated for the people who think government handouts come from Obama's "stash."
Posted by: Truman North, Moron Emeritus at November 14, 2014 05:05 PM (7Oo+W)
And the definition of Conspiracy....
Put them together...
This is JAIL TIME stuff...
Hmmm... thinking on it... there are STATE laws against both fraud and Conspiracy....
Texas maybe?
Posted by: Romeo13 at November 14, 2014 05:00 PM (f0pWu)
It's called a Rico prosecution: Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act
This group is no different than the Mafia except they are less honorable
Posted by: Nevergiveup at November 14, 2014 05:06 PM (nzKvP)
Is this the worst, or is the dude saying there's even worse?
Posted by: Mama AJ
http://youtu.be/qn1Yx1sojns
Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at November 14, 2014 05:06 PM (kdS6q)
You can but you'd be wrong. It came from the same fund every state in the union gets for hospitals.
Posted by: JackStraw at November 14, 2014 05:06 PM (g1DWB)
Meanwhile, in Iraq...
hey, so how's that whole "destroy" ISIS thing going?
I recall some idiot named joe biden vowing to follow [ISIS] to the gates of Hell.
Has biden reached Hell, yet?
Posted by: Soothsayer, All Knowing Of (Approximate) Knowledge at November 14, 2014 05:07 PM (+f7H2)
Posted by: ThunderB at November 14, 2014 05:07 PM (vxBiS)
Told ya we should've put the switches higher on the dashboard.
Posted by: DaveA at November 14, 2014 05:07 PM (DL2i+)
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 14, 2014 05:07 PM (CMkNk)
Posted by: Soothsayer, All Knowing Of (Approximate) Knowledge at November 14, 2014 05:07 PM (+f7H2)
No but his son Hunter snorted some last night
Posted by: Nevergiveup at November 14, 2014 05:08 PM (nzKvP)
Posted by: Jean at November 14, 2014 05:08 PM (TETYm)
Posted by: --- at November 14, 2014 05:08 PM (MMC8r)
And liability insurance at least has to be mandatory, because that protects other users of the roads, not you. I don't mind if you hit the ditch, and get a broken neck and can't work, but if you run a light, and hit my car, and I get a broken neck and can't work, I don't want to be suing you to get a 1990 Escort and a single-wide.
Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at November 14, 2014 04:48 PM (7MWCL)
I advocate the state taking it over to teach insurance companies why they shouldn't make their product mandatory through state laws.
As for your injury argument, suppose I paralyzed you or killed one of your children. How much insurance money will it take to make this right?
I thought so.
Another point. "Prior restraint." You are holding me accountable for something I have not yet done, and something I may very well not do.
Another point. I have the financial means to pay as much money as the mandatory insurance requirements. Why do I still have to pay for insurance when I can pay any claims myself and directly?
Posted by: D-Lamp at November 14, 2014 05:08 PM (txvbW)
Posted by: seems legit at November 14, 2014 05:00 PM (A98Xu)
---------------------------------------
What seems dumb to us is purpose to them. As I've always said, never ever underestimate your enemy.
How many things are considered mainstream acceptable to so many people now would have been hysterically laughed at 9-10 years ago.
Posted by: John Roberts at November 14, 2014 05:09 PM (toS2K)
Posted by: hugh hewitt at November 14, 2014 05:09 PM (FdlTq)
(Originally sung by the Georgia Militia in the Civil War.)
Posted by: zombie
---------------------------
A little-known, rare duet by prominent racists Johnny Cash & ..., wait for it...., Burl Ives
http://tinyurl.com/o8z7sne
Posted by: Nanci Pelosi, with apologies to Carl Sandberg at November 14, 2014 05:09 PM (l1zOH)
Posted by: Jean at November 14, 2014 05:09 PM (TETYm)
It's cool, there's two of us.
No spouse, no kids, looking after elderly parent. Save a seat at the party and keep the booze flowin', ladies.
Posted by: Broth-R-CVL at November 14, 2014 05:09 PM (zWC0k)
Posted by: The Grand Jury's Hat at November 14, 2014 05:10 PM (lN8KC)
Posted by: Soona at November 14, 2014 05:10 PM (toS2K)
Posted by: --- at November 14, 2014 05:08 PM (MMC8r)
The fucking guy doesn't have to admit jack shit because it's all there in black and white.
But coming out of his cake-hole does make the point stick. And the revelation that SCOAMF was in on the meeting and actively participating is murder!
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 14, 2014 05:10 PM (CMkNk)
Posted by: Carol at November 14, 2014 05:10 PM (sj3Ax)
Escapees came and told them what was going on but many accused them of fear mongering and refused to listen,...
...
Posted by: Soothsayer, All Knowing Of (Approximate) Knowledge at November 14, 2014 05:10 PM (+f7H2)
Posted by: Super Creepy Rob Lowe at November 14, 2014 04:48 PM (oDCMR)
He was Austrian, not German.
We don't actually know what Obama is, and he might not even be a statutory American citizen.
Of course if we'd followed that "natural born citizen" rule, he wouldn't have even been allowed to run for the office.
You cannot be a "natural citizen" if it requires an man made law to make you into a citizen.
Posted by: D-Lamp at November 14, 2014 05:10 PM (txvbW)
Who knows. He's a hard core Dem and he also has been taking shots at Romney for years. He was one of the first to claim Obamacare and Romneycare are the same in order to do exactly what has been happening. They aren't the same plan. I've had both.
His contribution to Romneycare was the models, same as he has provided to other states like Wisconsin, West Virginia, Vermont, etc..
He's a scummy douche bag that lies, obviously.
Posted by: JackStraw at November 14, 2014 05:11 PM (g1DWB)
Screw that POS Gutierrez, go with Indian.
Posted by: Carol at November 14, 2014 05:10 PM (sj3Ax)
But I really want a burrito? How about a quesadilla vindaloo?
Actually, wifey wants me to order Indian.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 14, 2014 05:11 PM (CMkNk)
Posted by: The Grand Jury's Hat at November 14, 2014 05:10 PM (lN8KC)
I've already passed out a dozen "I am Darren Wilson" wristbands.
Posted by: Jean at November 14, 2014 05:11 PM (TETYm)
Posted by: John Roberts
--------------
* scratches head *
I dunno. Maybe paying to add lady parts to a traitorous Army PFC?
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at November 14, 2014 05:11 PM (l1zOH)
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at November 14, 2014 05:12 PM (l1zOH)
Fuck 'em.
Posted by: rickb223 at November 14, 2014 05:12 PM (AAJX/)
Posted by: ObamaCare stealthfighter at November 14, 2014 05:12 PM (x8Wor)
Posted by: FenelonSpoke at November 14, 2014 05:12 PM (QlprU)
"They own the media, the schools and the bureaucracy. And these are all good things to have."
- - Tom Hagen as Tea Party consigliere
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 14, 2014 05:13 PM (CMkNk)
Yeah. I'm not congratulating Roberts on his eleventy-dimensional chess playing because I don't think this was his deliberate plan, but if O-care would have been nuked by five right-leaning Supremes before the LIVs had a chance to see how corrupt, deceitful and awful it really was, the Dems would have been gifted the best of all possible worlds. The stinking albatross carcass of O-care would have been removed from their collective necks, while leaving them a license to demagogue the holy shit out of the fact that "hateful conservatives stole the poor peoples' health care. "
This probably could not have played out better for conservatives. These Gruber videos have exposed the entire filthy mess just as the Supreme Court has agreed to hear King v. Burwell. America has never been angrier about having this steaming shitpile of legislation dumped on them (but just wait until next June!), giving political cover to Roberts and other weak sisters on the court to pull the trigger and kill the beast.
While it's impossible to be sure, I'm beginning to think this is gonna be great.
Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at November 14, 2014 05:13 PM (8ZskC)
Posted by: The Grand Jury's Hat
Not at 28degreesF, they're not.
Posted by: weft cut-loop at November 14, 2014 05:13 PM (/lTUs)
Be glad it wasn't the chain saw.
Posted by: Stumpy at November 14, 2014 05:13 PM (DL2i+)
Posted by: The Grand Jury's Hat at November 14, 2014 05:10 PM (lN8KC)
Actually that is no joke, it is true
Posted by: Nevergiveup at November 14, 2014 05:14 PM (nzKvP)
Posted by: J.J. Sefton
------------
Dots, or arrows?
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at November 14, 2014 05:12 PM (l1zOH)
Kentucky Fried Redskins?
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 14, 2014 05:14 PM (CMkNk)
And save the videos for when they go down the memory hole.
Posted by: FenelonSpoke at November 14, 2014 05:14 PM (QlprU)
Are you still officially banned & hiding behind fake IP address?
Posted by: Carol at November 14, 2014 05:14 PM (sj3Ax)
Posted by: The Grand Jury's Hat
Not at 28degreesF, they're not.
Posted by: weft cut-loop at November 14, 2014 05:13 PM (/lTUs)
That's what the burning store-fronts are for...
Posted by: The Grand Jury's Hat at November 14, 2014 05:14 PM (lN8KC)
Posted by: D-Lamp
----------------
Some states allow the posting of a bond, I believe.
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at November 14, 2014 05:14 PM (l1zOH)
It has long been my opinion that an Ivy League education means you
are automatically disqualified from holding any position of power or
influence.
Wait. What?
Posted by: George W Bush at November 14, 2014 05:14 PM (XzRw1)
- - Tom Hagen as Tea Party consigliere
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 14, 2014 05:13 PM (CMkNk)
It's not personal, It's just politics
Posted by: Nevergiveup at November 14, 2014 05:14 PM (nzKvP)
The end of democracy in America ended with LBJ's "great society".
Posted by: jwb7605 at November 14, 2014 04:56 PM (ZALPg)
I also mark that as the point at which our system of governance was most badly damaged, perhaps fatally.
But in fairness, I will point out that what LBJ did was a perfectly reasonable response to the passage of the 24th amendment.
Northeastern Republicans were the ones pushing it. They expected to acquire a massive windfall of newly enfranchised voters. LBJ flipped the script on them and stole their newly enfranchised voters.
They have been voting Democrat ever since. Indeed, it is probably what has kept Democrats in power for so very long.
Posted by: D-Lamp at November 14, 2014 05:15 PM (txvbW)
Posted by: The Grand Jury's Hat at November 14, 2014 05:10 PM (lN8KC)
Actually that is no joke, it is true
Posted by: Nevergiveup at November 14, 2014 05:14 PM (nzKvP)
I had that in the low 90's. At least 3 news cycles since you know that several cities are gonna get rocked.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 14, 2014 05:15 PM (CMkNk)
Posted by: thathalfrican at November 14, 2014 05:15 PM (R5HRU)
Posted by: Jenny Stienum at November 14, 2014 05:15 PM (Sd++4)
So while I can understand that the liberal media have no interest in researching and publishing this, where the hell were the conservative media folks and Republican opposition researchers?
Posted by: Red Widow at November 14, 2014 05:15 PM (kjdpt)
Thanks for the laugh. Much appreciated. ;^)
Posted by: FenelonSpoke at November 14, 2014 05:15 PM (QlprU)
Posted by: Truman North, Moron Emeritus at November 14, 2014 05:16 PM (7Oo+W)
Why is TFG doing a townhall in Burma? WTF?
Posted by: Lizzy at November 14, 2014 04:25 PM (ABcz/)
In a perfect world, it would be because he was in exile.
Posted by: flounder at November 14, 2014 04:31 PM (sDapq)
Sharing his worldview and lecturing the Burmese on how to run their country. I'm sure he is admonishing them for not allowing gay marriage, and for not reducing their CO2 output.
Posted by: Jen at November 14, 2014 05:16 PM (hjTr7)
Are you still officially banned & hiding behind fake IP address?
Posted by: Carol
---------------------
Carol - I am indeed. Yestrday marked 5 months here in Camp Banhammer. It is wearying. It also denies Ace the clicks, because of proxy blocking.
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at November 14, 2014 05:17 PM (l1zOH)
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at November 14, 2014 05:17 PM (l1zOH)
Posted by: Yusuf Islamic Jihad at November 14, 2014 05:18 PM (KHo8t)
Posted by: Yusuf Islamic Jihad at November 14, 2014 05:18 PM (KHo8t)
He looks and sounds authentically Cherokee, to me.
Posted by: jwb7605 at November 14, 2014 05:19 PM (ZALPg)
Posted by: Truman North, Moron Emeritus
Ah but the DNA in your turd is omniscient! So it evens out.
Posted by: zombie at November 14, 2014 05:19 PM (K4YiS)
Posted by: D-Lamp
----------------
Some states allow the posting of a bond, I believe.
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at November 14, 2014 05:14 PM (l1zOH)
You can simply pay the "tax" and forego the insurance. Remember the Supreme Court said you cannot be forced to buy the insurance with the threat of jail, but you can pay the tax. And if you don't pay the tax, you can go to jail.
It's all so very confusing.....
Posted by: Jen at November 14, 2014 05:19 PM (hjTr7)
Yet you are still able to get messages out. This skill may come in handy in the camps.
Posted by: Thin veneer of civility at November 14, 2014 05:19 PM (XzRw1)
Posted by: Truman North, Moron Emeritus at November 14, 2014 05:20 PM (B68Ng)
We re all talking about how the liberal media isnt really covering this
and while this is quite true, Im asking myself: what about the
conservative media? We ve just been through an election and this stuff
would have been ad-gold. Why did this remain hidden for an entire
campaign season?
So while I can understand that the liberal media have no interest in
researching and publishing this, where the hell were the conservative
media folks and Republican opposition researchers?
Posted by: Red Widow
+1
Why in the HELL did we not here about this before the last election, it would have added at least 2 more Senate seats.
It seems pretty obvious to me every Republican political operative should have been following the architect of Obamacare around with a camera when he was giving syposiums.
Posted by: McAdams at November 14, 2014 05:21 PM (MABF1)
Posted by: Truman North, Moron Emeritus at November 14, 2014 05:21 PM (B68Ng)
Most have some sort of religious element that I know disqualifies some of the horde, but Liberty Health Share does not.
Here are the ones I know of. (Full disclosure: We use Christian Healthcare Ministries and are very happy. )
Liberty Health Share
Christian Healthcare Minsitries
Samaritan Ministries
MediShare
My family has been with Samaritan Ministries since 2002 are have been very happy as well. The biggest plus the last few years is knowing we were exempt from Obamacare. It's been nice not to be *personally* stressed about Obamacare.
Posted by: Jonathan Gruber at November 14, 2014 05:21 PM (Plx/u)
Posted by: Truman North, Moron Emeritus at November 14, 2014 05:22 PM (B68Ng)
Posted by: parteagirl at November 14, 2014 05:22 PM (Plx/u)
Posted by: Jean at November 14, 2014 05:09 PM (TETYm)
In my state I think it's 25\50\25.
It's certainly not enough to pay for death or paralysis, nor even a serious injury.
Posted by: D-Lamp at November 14, 2014 05:23 PM (txvbW)
Did you send IP address to
Maetenloch? He asked a few months ago but in same email he said Pixy hadn't replied in two months.
Pixy has been working on blog. Send IP address to Maetenloch.
Posted by: Carol at November 14, 2014 05:23 PM (EZ5IY)
Anyone really think an MIT economist thinks young and healthy are gonna pay for the old and inform? The young and healthy are in debt to their eyebrows, the old paid off their mortgages buy new sedans every year and have accumulated a lifetime of savings. You get the money from those who have it - old middle class people.
Barrack was the only one to tell the truth - granny ain't gonna be spending that $100,000 she saved working her whole life for a new hip, not worth it, Granny gonna get the pill.
Posted by: Burnt Toast at November 14, 2014 05:23 PM (NaeCR)
Posted by: Truman North, Moron Emeritus at November 14, 2014 05:21 PM (B68Ng)
------------------------------------------
It's in the mail. The USPS guaranties delivery.
Posted by: Soona at November 14, 2014 05:23 PM (toS2K)
Posted by: Thin veneer
-------------
Yeah, well.., I've explained this before. I have to smuggle messages out. It's not so difficult, because most of the guards are Serb ex-pats who pretty much despise Clinton, so we have something in common.
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at November 14, 2014 05:24 PM (vPh3W)
Posted by: getonwidit at November 14, 2014 05:24 PM (TiTon)
I advocate the state taking it over to teach
insurance companies why they shouldn't make their product mandatory
through state laws.
- I don't care if insurance companies want mandatory liability insurance for drivers. I want mandatory insurance for drivers, so that I can be recompensed if some idiot driver causes me loss.
As for your injury argument, suppose I paralyzed you or killed one
of your children. How much insurance money will it take to make this
right?
- no amount will make me (or my hypothetical child) whole again, but several million dollars might enable me to get a powered wheelchair, and a handicap van, and at least be able to have some semblance of a life.
I thought so.
Another point. "Prior restraint." You are holding me accountable
for something I have not yet done, and something I may very well not
do.
- It's something that you and me, and all of us are at risk of doing, every time we take the wheel of an auto. All it takes is a momentary lapse of attention, and you (or I) becomes the bad guy in an at-fault accident.
Another point. I have the financial means to pay as much money as
the mandatory insurance requirements. Why do I still have to pay for
insurance when I can pay any claims myself and directly?
- cool. Proof of financial responsibility. Say, by posting a 2 million dollar bond? Go for it. Large corporations and government agencies can do it, why not you? If you want to tie up that much capital in a low-interest bond, be my guest.
Posted by: D-Lamp at November 14, 2014 05:08 PM (txvbW)
Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at November 14, 2014 05:24 PM (7MWCL)
Posted by: Carol at November 14, 2014 05:25 PM (EZ5IY)
But coming out of his cake-hole does make the point stick. And the revelation that SCOAMF was in on the meeting and actively participating is murder!
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 14, 2014 05:10 PM (CMkNk)
Not really.
Nobody is going to believe he even understood what was happening, let alone contributed anything to it.
As Rush Limbaugh has said: "When Obama enters a room, he is always the least qualified person in it, and it doesn't matter what the subject is either."
Posted by: D-Lamp at November 14, 2014 05:25 PM (txvbW)
Posted by: Zeke Emanuel at November 14, 2014 05:25 PM (vPh3W)
it's just where you have to put them.....
Posted by: rickb223 at November 14, 2014 05:26 PM (AAJX/)
Did you send IP address to
Maetenloch? He asked a few months ago but in same email he said Pixy hadn't replied in two months.
Pixy has been working on blog. Send IP address to Maetenloch.
Posted by: Carol at November 14, 2014 05:23 PM (EZ5IY)
Actually if it's the one ending in 47, I already have it and can re-ping pixy now that he's responsive again.
Free if you're a Premium member otherwise the standard service fee will be billed to your paypal account.
Posted by: Maetenloch at November 14, 2014 05:26 PM (pAlYe)
Posted by: @votermom at November 14, 2014 05:27 PM (FrceM)
Posted by: @votermom at November 14, 2014 05:28 PM (FrceM)
Posted by: Nanci Pelosi, with apologies to Carl Sandberg at November 14, 2014 05:03 PM (l1zOH)
Whereas in Utah you can shoot them and get paid for it! Because here they are correctly recognized as varmints.
Posted by: LizLem at November 14, 2014 05:28 PM (yRwC8)
I typed your name & you just appeared, like magic!
I suspect you're using that BanHanner.
Posted by: Carol at November 14, 2014 05:29 PM (sj3Ax)
Maetenloch? He asked a few months ago but in same email he said Pixy hadn't replied in two months.
Pixy has been working on blog. Send IP address to Maetenloch.
Posted by: Carol
-----------------
Yes, Maet has it. I promised myself that I would hold out for 6 months without bothering anyone.
Lately, there have been enough *real* problems with the site without me pestering anyone, so I'll just hold out for a while longer.
Posted by: Zeke Emanuel at November 14, 2014 05:29 PM (vPh3W)
Posted by: redenzo at November 14, 2014 05:30 PM (WCnJW)
Take off Zeke sock!
Posted by: Carol at November 14, 2014 05:30 PM (sj3Ax)
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at November 14, 2014 05:30 PM (vPh3W)
39 Conservatives need to drop out of the insurance scheme. Join a health share.
I'm looking at it seriously, I own my own business and the coming rates that I'm seeing are absurd. I don't even consider what I have now to be real health insurance, it's basically just bankruptcy protection if a family member got cancer or got in a car wreck.
My concern with some of the health share plans is how are things like doctor's visits treated? Do most health care providers give you the discounted "insurance" rate when you have that coverage? I could see most just making you pay a cash rate because they don't recognize it. Just don't want a hassle everytime my kid goes to the doctor.
Posted by: McAdams at November 14, 2014 05:31 PM (MABF1)
Posted by: LizLem
-----------------------------
One is left to ponder the difference between faux conservation 'activists' and coyotes.
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at November 14, 2014 05:32 PM (vPh3W)
So as a general matter, I think we'd probably like to get rid of the tax exempt status for health care benefits.
We would? Universally?
Pull your head out. There is a problem: some medical expenses are tax-exempt, others are not. One solution is to make them all taxable; another would be to make them all tax deductible. I have a strong suspicion (the kind I would wager big money on), that if you were to ask people which would be the better solution, the vast majority would say let's make all medical expenses tax deductible.
Maybe I'm wrong; maybe a whole lot of people would love it if their employer-provided insurance plans lost their tax exempt status and meant that someone (either their employer or more likely, they themselves) would now have to fork over money to pay the tax on these plans. But I seriously doubt it.
Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at November 14, 2014 05:32 PM (IN7k+)
I typed your name & you just appeared, like magic!
I suspect you're using that BanHanner.
MUMR's around, it's on sentry mode.
Posted by: Broth-R-CVL at November 14, 2014 05:32 PM (zWC0k)
We don't. Drop your panties, Jenny, and we'll prove it to you.
Posted by: Fritz at November 14, 2014 05:32 PM (dVmLD)
Some states allow the posting of a bond, I believe.
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at November 14, 2014 05:14 PM (l1zOH)
Wherein they keep your money and don't pay you interest.
At the current interest rates, this is actually not that bad of an idea, and I have been contemplating it.
But why does exercising your right to utilize the public ways require conditions that are not replicated in any other area of law?
If I start a campfire and it accidentally burns down a bunch of houses, should I have to have insurance prior to the fact of lighting a campfire?
If I am riding a horse and it steps on someone's foot, should I have to have insurance for this prior to the fact?
If I throw a rock and it hits someone, should I have to have insurance prior to the fact?
In ordinary civil claims, you pay for injuries you cause AFTER you cause them, not before.
Some people chose to have insurance for these sorts of things, but there is no law compelling them to do so.
Posted by: D-Lamp at November 14, 2014 05:33 PM (txvbW)
Posted by: Maetenloch at November 14, 2014 05:33 PM (pAlYe)
Posted by: Nanci Pelosi, with apologies to Carl Sandberg at November 14, 2014 05:03 PM (l1zOH)
Wait to hear the wails of grief when the cute little coyotes start ripping apart Little Fifi let out in the yard to tinkle.
I've lost barn cats to coyotes and have found fresh deer carcasses torn up from them. Hunting them with the AR is rather satisfying.
Posted by: Jen at November 14, 2014 05:34 PM (hjTr7)
Posted by: Carol at November 14, 2014 05:34 PM (sj3Ax)
Posted by: Jen at November 14, 2014 05:35 PM (hjTr7)
Posted by: Thin veneer of civility at November 14, 2014 05:36 PM (XzRw1)
Just to set the table here: It is widely, almost universally,
acknowledged that not taxing insurance policies is a bad idea that leads
to distortions and inefficiencies (and incidentally is a case of the
government picking "winners and losers," and dictating what form
employee payments should take).
I agree, but it's incredibly stupid when Republicans go after popular, middle class tax breaks.
McCain promising to tax employees that had "good" health insurance plans was beyond retarded.
It's the same when I hear say Paul Ryan promising to end the mortgage deduction. I understand all the distortions, but Democrats would love nothing more than the GOP to be the political party that's goes after popular middle class tax breaks in some quest for purity.
Posted by: McAdams at November 14, 2014 05:37 PM (MABF1)
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at November 14, 2014 05:39 PM (vPh3W)
Posted by: rickb223 at November 14, 2014 05:40 PM (AAJX/)
I think I agree with you, but the italicized portion of my comment (which you quoted) was a quote from Ace's post. I disagree with increasing taxes on those who have employer based insurance. I would rather see all medical expenses become tax deductible, perhaps with a standard deduction for those who don't want to bother with itemizing.
Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at November 14, 2014 05:44 PM (IN7k+)
- I don't care if insurance companies want mandatory liability insurance for drivers. I want mandatory insurance for drivers, so that I can be recompensed if some idiot driver causes me loss.
But my argument is that you don't have a right to impose such a requirement on me, nor does the government.
As for your loss, when *YOU* get on the road, *you* are deliberately putting yourself at the risk of death or horrible loss. Losses so severe that you cannot possibly be compensated for them.
You consent to such risk. Your desire to minimize your potential losses does not give you a right to preclude me from using the public ways because it suits your preference.
- no amount will make me (or my hypothetical child) whole again, but several million dollars might enable me to get a powered wheelchair, and a handicap van, and at least be able to have some semblance of a life.
You won't be able to afford such a thing under the minimum insurance laws of my state. If you do not have some alternative to the pittance you will get, then you are well and truly boned.
How about you just recognize that you put yourself at risk when you get in an environment where high speed vehicles are whizzing past?
If you don't wish to take such a risk with your life or property, why shouldn't it be you that must stay off the roads?
- It's something that you and me, and all of us are at risk of doing, every time we take the wheel of an auto. All it takes is a momentary lapse of attention, and you (or I) becomes the bad guy in an at-fault accident.
Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at November 14, 2014 05:24 PM
And insurance changes the likelihood that you will have an accident? If it does, I dare say it is for the worse. As with health insurance, people are much more willing to take risks so long as they know someone else will foot the bill for mistakes.
Posted by: D-Lamp at November 14, 2014 05:46 PM (txvbW)
Can you please not put so many line breaks in your comments. It makes it harder to scan and read the comments.
Posted by: Maetenloch at November 14, 2014 05:50 PM (pAlYe)
But why does exercising your right to utilize the
public ways require conditions that are not replicated in any other area
of law?
- because the public ways are both very crowded, and because the nature of vehicular transport is such that minor inattention can lead to tragic and costly consequences.
If I start a campfire and it accidentally burns down a bunch of
houses, should I have to have insurance prior to the fact of lighting a
campfire?
- No, but you had better have your life insurance paid up.
If I am riding a horse and it steps on someone's foot, should I have to have insurance for this prior to the fact?
- No. If I am standing that close to a horse, I am at least partly to blame for what happens. And a crushed foot may be painful, and temporarily incapacitating, but it rarely amounts to huge tragedy.
If I throw a rock and it hits someone, should I have to have insurance prior to the fact?
- No. I don't think you can buy insurance that would protect you from the consequences of an overt criminal act on your part. And if the rock-throwing was an accident, I'd expect the resulting losses to be small enough that you could pay them.
In ordinary civil claims, you pay for injuries you cause AFTER you cause them, not before.
- when you buy liability insurance, you are buying protection against being sued for your entire net worth. You might get sued, anyway, but if your insurance pays the damages to the injured party, it becomes less likely that such a suit would be launched.
Some people chose to have insurance for these sorts of things, but there is no law compelling them to do so.
- so you want to be just like the illegal alien? No drivers license, no insurance, no responsibility? Kewl.
Posted by: D-Lamp at November 14, 2014 05:33 PM (txvbW)
Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at November 14, 2014 05:53 PM (7MWCL)
Posted by: Maetenloch at November 14, 2014 05:50 PM (pAlYe)
Habit. I thought it makes it easier to read. I'll try to keep it in mind.
Posted by: D-Lamp at November 14, 2014 05:53 PM (txvbW)
TFG held a townhall in Burma was met with protests signs of fake.
..............
Was he wearing pajamas and chewing gum?
Posted by: wth at November 14, 2014 05:53 PM (wAQA5)
Yea, I think that would be a fair compromise that could get political support.
If Obamacare state exchanges get struck down, Republicans should really push for something like that.
I just think sometimes conservatives throw away political support to attain goals that are really small in comparison. The health care market is always going to be distorted, taking away a popular way Americans get their health insurance seems to be more about making an obscure point than anything.
Same with housing, taking away the mortgage deduction seems to me to be a great way to stir up a hornet's nest more than "fixing" the tax code.
Posted by: McAdams at November 14, 2014 05:53 PM (MABF1)
Posted by: Mitch McConnell circa WWII at November 14, 2014 05:57 PM (lJLML)
Posted by: Jenny Stienum at November 14, 2014 06:00 PM (Sd++4)
Special occasion? Organ variety plate. Love that thin sliced liver.
Posted by: Man from Wazzustan at November 14, 2014 06:07 PM (0atFl)
Posted by: sulla at November 14, 2014 07:33 PM (+1vYq)
**************
I love the fact that you are optimistic that either of these ladies have more than a couple of working brain cells between them. Please keep me posted as to any kind of response that you get. My bets are on Marie hiding out in a mansion somewhere and Patty busy looking at clocks in to stop them.
Posted by: dwagyak at November 14, 2014 11:10 PM (J5+BW)
Posted by: somethingfishie at November 14, 2014 11:32 PM (iy2lM)
This is the smoking gun.
Yet once again the media hides it as though it were unimportant that we have been lied to for the past 6 years without stop!!!
Why is it so hard to fight this corrupt media?
Posted by: petunia at November 15, 2014 01:28 AM (0r5UB)
Posted by: Daniel at November 15, 2014 08:54 AM (xTgSv)
Posted by: Ruth at November 15, 2014 01:30 PM (E+JEO)
Posted by: X at November 16, 2014 08:49 AM (KHo8t)
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