Left Covers Up Gruber Deceits With, Get This, More Deceit

Lies all the way down.

Oh, and Megan McArdle sums up the advantages of Obamacare this way:

No one likes [Obamacare's] structure. Its sole virtues over basically any other possible plan were that it scored well with the Congressional Budget Office and that it was too confusing for voters to understand what was going on. Those are not high recommendations for a national health-care policy.

Oh, and here's an important fact I didn't know: Jon Gruber was paid by the government to figure out how to fool the CBO into scoring various taxes as not being taxes.

When he speaks about deceiving the CBO and the American public, he is not being glib. That is precisely his area of expertise.

In 2009, just one month after President Obama took office, the Department of Health and Human Services put out a sole-source solicitation titled "Technical Assistance in Evaluating Options for Health Reform." The contract would be with Gruber, who the document said was the only person "reasonably available to satisfy agency requirements."

As the agency put it, "Dr. Gruber developed a proprietary statistically sophisticated micro-simulation model that has the flexibility to ascertain the distribution of changes in health care spending and public and private sector health care costs due to a large variety of changes in health insurance benefit design, public program eligibility criteria, and tax policy."

The model, the Gruber Microsimulation Model, is the coin of the realm, in large part because it is similar to the model used by the Congressional Budget Office. That means administration policy-makers could predict with reasonable certainty how CBO would score legislation. Given that legislation in Washington often falls or rises depending on the CBO score, that made this model a very powerful tool for administration officials.

So you paid Dr. Gruber $400,000 for his expertise in tutoring the government to serve more effective false propaganda to you.


Posted by: Ace at 12:44 PM




Comments

(Jump to bottom of page)

1 And the lefty idiots, on the (D)U type boards, suck it down whole.

Idiots.

Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Suntanning in Bizzaro World at November 14, 2014 12:45 PM (sGmG/)

2 Firstest?

Barack Obama is not a smart man.

Posted by: Citizen X at November 14, 2014 12:45 PM (7ObY1)

3 Oh shit..... "on the way out the door with tools" first.

Zoot Allures.

Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Suntanning in Bizzaro World at November 14, 2014 12:46 PM (sGmG/)

4 His name is Clay.


Bill Clay.

Posted by: EC at November 14, 2014 12:46 PM (GQ8sn)

5 Gruber laughed about the stupid Americans all the way to the bank with his 400K reward.

Posted by: Citizen X at November 14, 2014 12:47 PM (7ObY1)

6 *cough*

Posted by: The Scorpion at November 14, 2014 12:47 PM (rwI+c)

7 Free Beacon @FreeBeacon
BREAKING: #KeystoneXL vote passed in the House with at least 31 Dems voted in favor.

Posted by: Costanza Defense at November 14, 2014 12:47 PM (ZPrif)

8 I suppose we should be happy to have this kind of material to rub the Left's collective nose in, but I'm just becoming more and more incensed at the vile gall of it all.

Posted by: weft cut-loop, now in Dark Chunks! at November 14, 2014 12:48 PM (/lTUs)

9 It's almost as if they don't understand the internet. We all have their previous quotes that say the opposite of what they're saying now.

Hope you're feeling better, ace.

Posted by: Heralder at November 14, 2014 12:48 PM (/Mxso)

10 You know what explains this?

Drugs.

Posted by: BCochran1981 - Credible Hulk at November 14, 2014 12:49 PM (da5Wo)

11 Holy crap. I made a comment from work.



!!!

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at November 14, 2014 12:49 PM (LA7Cm)

12 "With, Get This, More Deceit"

Well, they're nothing if not consistent. They've got that going for them.

Posted by: Keith Arnold at November 14, 2014 12:49 PM (iIzG7)

13 Rich Weinstein is a damn star though.

He's just rubbing the MFM's noses in this now, and I. Am. Freakin'. Lovin'. It.

The spirit of Breitbart lives in this guy, though by all accounts, Weinstein is not ideological. Just a regular American who wanted to know the truth.

Posted by: Citizen X at November 14, 2014 12:49 PM (7ObY1)

14 @iowahawkblog

Yo Kim Kardashian, Imma let you finish, but Jon Gruber is the greatest internet-breaking giant exposed ass OF ALL TIME

Posted by: weft cut-loop, now in Dark Chunks! at November 14, 2014 12:49 PM (/lTUs)

15 KeystoneXL vote passed in the House with at least 31 Dems voted in favor.
Posted by: Costanza Defense at November 14, 2014 12:47 PM (ZPrif)

----

I thought it already passed in the House and was in Hairy Reids trashcan???

Posted by: fixerupper at November 14, 2014 12:49 PM (NaV4z)

16 No problem.

We will 'repeal Obamacare'.


*giggle*

Posted by: Mitch McConnell at November 14, 2014 12:49 PM (Qgr71)

17 Liars lie and when the MFM covers for them there is no blow-back.


Republicans are going to have to start an aggressive anti-media campaign. I would not worry about picking fights with people who buy ink by the barrel. They declare war on Republicans long ago and they can't make it any worse than it already is.

Posted by: Vic at November 14, 2014 12:50 PM (u9gzs)

18 Whet the Repubs NEED to do, is come out with some facts and figures showing that it is NOT working.

That more people do NOT have insurance now... that insurance is NOT actually cheaper.

ie, they need to argue what WE all know... that the whole thing didn't work.

But they won't... because they want to replace it so THEIR political doners get to be winners, vicet the Democrat political doners.

Posted by: Romeo13 at November 14, 2014 12:50 PM (f0pWu)

19 $400 Large is just the tip of the iceberg.

Michigan: $481,050

Minnesota: $329,000

Vermont: $400,000

Wisconsin: $400,000

Gruber has also earned more than $2 million over the last seven years for an ongoing contract with HHS to assess choices made by the elderly in Medicare’s prescription-drug plan.

http://is.gd/wDnP0b




Like a lawyer's expert witness, this liar makes big bank.

Posted by: toby928(C) at November 14, 2014 12:50 PM (rwI+c)

20 I may not be the Prince of Lies...but I'm at least the Eminem.

Posted by: Barack Obama at November 14, 2014 12:50 PM (78TbK)

21 5 Gruber laughed about the stupid Americans all the way to the bank with his 400K reward.

Posted by: Citizen X at November 14, 2014 12:47 PM (7ObY1)


Just another day, for the leather upholstered Left.

Who are "so down" with the poor.

Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Suntanning in Bizzaro World at November 14, 2014 12:50 PM (965co)

22 So Gruber's main skill seems to be that he had an accurate model of how CBO would score the bill -- which let Dems predict CBO's scoring and craft their bill to hide what they wanted.

My question is -- how did Gruber have such an accurate model?

Did someone at CBO share their statistical model with Gruber?

Posted by: Costanza Defense at November 14, 2014 12:50 PM (ZPrif)

23 16 No problem.

We will 'repeal Obamacare'.


*giggle*
Posted by: Mitch McConnell at November 14, 2014 12:49 PM (Qgr71)



*cries*

Posted by: J. Boehner at November 14, 2014 12:51 PM (da5Wo)

Posted by: Mitt Romney at November 14, 2014 12:51 PM (Qgr71)

25 It's almost as if they don't understand the internet. We all have their previous quotes that say the opposite of what they're saying now.


They are all Nancy Pelosi now.

Posted by: rickb223 at November 14, 2014 12:51 PM (AAJX/)

26 Look, I didn't even know the guy who did that thing in your mouth. Sure, I paid him to do something, but he told me I'd have to pay him to find out what he was going to do. So, come on let me put it in your mouth one more time.

Posted by: Democrats to Stupid Americans at November 14, 2014 12:51 PM (w3a0Z)

27
No problem.

We will 'repeal Obamacare'.


*giggle*
___
And by Obamacare, we mean amnesty. And by repeal we mean force down your throats.

Posted by: John Boehner at November 14, 2014 12:51 PM (78TbK)

28 My question is -- how did Gruber have such an accurate model?

Did someone at CBO share their statistical model with Gruber?

Posted by: Costanza Defense at November 14, 2014 12:50 PM (ZPrif)


Non-clicker!


"The model, the Gruber Microsimulation Model, is the coin of the realm, in large part because it is similar to the model used by the Congressional Budget Office. That means administration policy-makers could predict with reasonable certainty how CBO would score legislation. Given that legislation in Washington often falls or rises depending on the CBO score, that made this model a very powerful tool for administration officials."

Posted by: EC at November 14, 2014 12:51 PM (GQ8sn)

29 Rich Weinstein is a damn star though.

He's just rubbing the MFM's noses in this now, and I. Am. Freakin'. Lovin'. It.

The spirit of Breitbart lives in this guy, though by all accounts, Weinstein is not ideological. Just a regular American who wanted to know the truth.

Posted by: Citizen X at November 14, 2014 12:49 PM (7ObY1)



A regular American who got screwed over by a policy cancellation and went full Spartan.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Now with extra taunting. at November 14, 2014 12:52 PM (mf5HN)

30 9 It's almost as if they don't understand the internet. We all have their previous quotes that say the opposite of what they're saying now.

Hope you're feeling better, ace.


Posted by: Heralder at November 14, 2014 12:48 PM (/Mxso)


They understand the internet... they just don't fear it.

They have gotten away with telling us lies for so long... they have no fear.

How often do we have Dems, and especially Obama, on tape telling us EXACTLY what he is going to do? What his intentions are?

And yet.... get away with it?

Posted by: Romeo13 at November 14, 2014 12:52 PM (f0pWu)

31 And the lefty idiots, on the (D)U type boards, suck it down whole.



Idiots.

Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Suntanning in Bizzaro World at November 14, 2014 12:45 PM (sGmG/)



"They are the stupid American voters we've been talking about."
-Gruber

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit, aka Beth at November 14, 2014 12:52 PM (4df7R)

32 "*cries*

Posted by: J. Boehner "


Have a drink and a smoke, John.

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at November 14, 2014 12:52 PM (LA7Cm)

33 This level of corruption makes Tammany Hall look tame.

Posted by: Diogenes at November 14, 2014 12:52 PM (08Znv)

34 Non-clicker!

It';s the only way to be safe from The London Boys.

Posted by: toby928(C) at November 14, 2014 12:52 PM (rwI+c)

35 It's almost as if they don't understand the internet. We all have their
previous quotes that say the opposite of what they're saying now.
___
No, we know how the intertubes work. Its more we know you and the Republicans aren't going to do a goddamned thing about it.

Posted by: The Left at November 14, 2014 12:52 PM (78TbK)

36 Wingnuts. I have 5,000,000 ways to get this off the front page.

Posted by: The Precedent at November 14, 2014 12:52 PM (zxQ4h)

37 How, exactly, does CBO score a bill?

Is there a giant spreadsheet? A Matlab program?

When it comes down to it there's gonna be a spreadsheet or stats program where the data is fed in and a # is spit out.

All the Democrats who praised Gruber commented how he had some "special magic" that made his prediction's of CBO's scores amazingly accurate -- more accurate than the other economists and analysts they had available.

That's kinda weird.

Posted by: Costanza Defense at November 14, 2014 12:53 PM (ZPrif)

38 Sorry, the Patterico post that had the model story is another one. Just go to his main page and it's the first one up top right now.


Posted by: EC at November 14, 2014 12:53 PM (GQ8sn)

39 Posted by: Mitt Romney at November 14, 2014 12:51 PM (Qgr71)

Heh.

Posted by: Golfman in NC at November 14, 2014 12:53 PM (4IzCi)

40 Magically-appearing content. Wow.

Posted by: Golfman in NC at November 14, 2014 12:53 PM (4IzCi)

41 You know what explains this?

Drugs.
Posted by: BCochran1981 - Credible Hulk at November 14, 2014 12:49 PM (da5Wo)



*waits patiently by USB port*

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Now with extra taunting. at November 14, 2014 12:54 PM (mf5HN)

42 Posted by: EC at November 14, 2014 12:51 PM (GQ8sn)

Nah.... he just used some computer models...

Seems there were some people on the market who were working cheap... but had really good resumes... from working for Climate Change groups...

Posted by: Romeo13 at November 14, 2014 12:54 PM (f0pWu)

43 Magically-appearing content. Wow.

It's a Festivus miracle.

Posted by: toby928(C) at November 14, 2014 12:54 PM (rwI+c)

44 Ok, ace linked it now.


Posted by: EC at November 14, 2014 12:54 PM (GQ8sn)

45 Have a drink and a smoke, John.

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at November 14, 2014 12:52 PM (LA7Cm)



*cries more*

I already did!

Posted by: J. Boehner at November 14, 2014 12:55 PM (da5Wo)

46 Ok, ace linked it now.

Maybe he's reading the comments.


Nah.

Posted by: toby928(C) at November 14, 2014 12:55 PM (rwI+c)

47 I propose an amendment to the AOSHQ Style Guide, to wit:
"Whereas the Democratic Party is the the public, political wing of the left/progressive/communist movement, and
Whereas even Barack Obama, epic clusterfcuk that he is, can't screw it up this badly by himself.

All instances of 'the left' and 'Barack Obama' shall be replaced with 'Democrats' so as to more closely comport with the truth.

So let it be done.

Posted by: The Truth, the whole Truth etc. at November 14, 2014 12:55 PM (6jKOp)

48 So how is the Gruber Microsimulation Model so amazingly similar to the CBO model?

What language is it written in?

Did people at CBO help correct Gruber's model? Maybe friends of Gruber's who used to work at CBO and now the inner mechanisms? Or just saved a copy of the spreadsheet, Matlab file, program or however it is coded up.

Posted by: Costanza Defense at November 14, 2014 12:55 PM (ZPrif)

49 22 So Gruber's main skill seems to be that he had an accurate model of how CBO would score the bill -- which let Dems predict CBO's scoring and craft their bill to hide what they wanted.

My question is -- how did Gruber have such an accurate model?

Did someone at CBO share their statistical model with Gruber?
Posted by: Costanza Defense at November 14, 2014 12:50 PM (ZPrif)


**********


Cruber again--admitted that the goal of writing ObamaCare in a confusing manner was to revent CBO from scoring it correctly.

He has lost all credibility.

There is no reason his numbers should be believed.

He already said he was willing to deceive to get the desired result.

Posted by: Your Friendly Danube River Guide at November 14, 2014 12:55 PM (RJMhd)

50 *prevent* CBO

Posted by: Your Friendly Danube River Guide at November 14, 2014 12:55 PM (RJMhd)

51 *waits patiently by USB port*

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Now with extra taunting. at November 14, 2014 12:54 PM (mf5HN)



Oh no ma'am. You're anti-drug. We sent your share to China to restart the Revolution.

Posted by: BCochran1981 - Credible Hulk at November 14, 2014 12:56 PM (da5Wo)

52 So how is the Gruber Microsimulation Model so amazingly similar to the CBO model?

What language is it written in?

Did people at CBO help correct Gruber's model? Maybe friends of Gruber's who used to work at CBO and now the inner mechanisms? Or just saved a copy of the spreadsheet, Matlab file, program or however it is coded up.

Posted by: Costanza Defense at November 14, 2014 12:55 PM (ZPrif)




I'm guessing he had some foreknowledge of how the model scores certain parameters and criteria. He had to have help from inside. No way he could have accurately predicted how the model would weigh and score all those variables by himself.

Posted by: EC at November 14, 2014 12:56 PM (GQ8sn)

53 That thing I said I would not do in your mouth?

Yes

Well. I Grubered. See if I admitted that I would do that in your mouth you would say no.

So I Grubered. It's your fault really. You're so stupid

Posted by: ThunderB at November 14, 2014 12:57 PM (zOTsN)

54 And ole Gruber cleaned up financially, too as this WaTimes piece shows:

Minnesota, for example, used federal Obamacare grants to pay Mr. Gruber to attend one meeting, participate in a biweekly email list and print a copy of the report, all for $329,000. Wisconsin paid Mr. Gruber $400,000 for the same material, requested by the office of then-Gov. Jim Doyle, a Democrat. When the report was presented, Gov. Scott Walker, a Republican, didn't want Mr. Gruber at the news conference. Vermont is paying him another $400,000. Such a deal!

West Virginia, Maine, Colorado and Oregon have partaken of Mr. Gruber's services, too, guaranteeing him a tidy sum.


http://tinyurl.com/kgsfrsk

Posted by: GnuBreed at November 14, 2014 12:57 PM (2ZblH)

55 I don't think we truly appreciate what an absolute disaster this is for liberals. Gruber has simultaneously:

(1) Revealed the contempt elite liberals have for...well, everybody.
(2) Revealed that, in all of their schemes, they're lying and lying big. This makes it almost impossible to believe in the utopian dreams of central planners.
(3) Uncovered how well the elite class profits off of their schemes intended to help people. Gruber has gotten filthy rich off of this thing. (see sidebar)

And the reason this will stick (and why the nets are studiously avoiding it) is that everybody sort of thought it was true. But libs would always express shock (shock!) and surprise that you would dare challenge their good intentions.

This isn't some Senate candidate who stumbled into a nomination, but this is a prime mover and thinker for liberal thought. He is, in essence, Obama's brain.

And the kicker, the real kicker, is that he's insulting Democrat voters and especially independents. The Tea Party had Gruber figured out and conservatives have been railing on the above points for years. But now they're quotable. From the horse's mouth.

And he's speaking about Obamacare, the only "accomplishment" of the Obama administration. His eternal legacy. The culmination of the Leftist project in America. And it's a disaster built on lies.

Posted by: AmishDude at November 14, 2014 12:57 PM (b4b5c)

56 " He had to have help from inside."


You bet he did.


Rhymes with Harack Yomama.

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at November 14, 2014 12:58 PM (LA7Cm)

57 Oh no ma'am. You're anti-drug. We sent your share to China to restart the Revolution.
Posted by: BCochran1981 - Credible Hulk at November 14, 2014 12:56 PM (da5Wo)



But it's Unpossible that I am anti-drug. I mean everyone know that My Kind are nothing but massive drug users.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Now with extra taunting. at November 14, 2014 12:58 PM (mf5HN)

58 Hmmm. Bear Claw.

Posted by: Mary Landrieu at November 14, 2014 12:58 PM (rwI+c)

59 Check his college roomates. I'll bet one or more of them worked inside at the OMB

Posted by: Count de Monet at November 14, 2014 12:58 PM (JO9+V)

60 When he lies, he speaks his native tongue.

Posted by: Insomniac at November 14, 2014 12:58 PM (DrWcr)

61 The ends justify the Gruber

Posted by: ThunderB at November 14, 2014 12:58 PM (zOTsN)

62 I'm guessing he had some foreknowledge of how
the model scores certain parameters and
criteria. He had to have help from inside. No
way he could have accurately predicted how the
model would weigh and score all those variables
by himself.



He was paid $400k to succeed. You can bet he was given the keys.

Posted by: rickb223 at November 14, 2014 12:59 PM (AAJX/)

63 Barack Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a malignant traitor.

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) phone at November 14, 2014 12:59 PM (49zOr)

64 "They are the stupid American voters we've been talking about."
-Gruber

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit, aka Beth at November 14, 2014 12:52 PM (4df7R)


It's staring them directly in the eyes and they refuse see it.

....because Republicans' fault.

Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Suntanning in Bizzaro World at November 14, 2014 12:59 PM (965co)

65 Oh, and here's an important fact I didn't know: Jon Gruber was paid by the government to figure out how to fool the CBO into scoring various taxes as not being taxes.


********

Correct.

The Voxsplainers yesterday really stepped in it when they said something like--

"he was paid only to be a numbers cruncher".

Posted by: Your Friendly Danube River Guide at November 14, 2014 12:59 PM (RJMhd)

66 Well, he just out into words what we all know they think of us anyway.

Posted by: brak at November 14, 2014 12:59 PM (Tj+s6)

67 But it's Unpossible that I am anti-drug. I mean everyone know that My Kind are nothing but massive drug users.
Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Now with extra taunting. at November 14, 2014 12:58 PM (mf5HN)



*nods*

Truth.

But question, is it the psychological damage that leads to the drug use or the drug use that leads to being psychologically damaged?

Posted by: BCochran1981 - Credible Hulk at November 14, 2014 12:59 PM (da5Wo)

68 So basically Gruber scammed the CBO and the American people in exactly the same fashion that the mortgage-backed securities operations scammed the rating agencies last decade.

In exactly the same manner that Enron scammed California energy 'deregulation' a decade and a half ago.

Man, this guy undersold himself. I guess government work really doesn't pay.

He should have asked for Jeff Skilling's paycheck.

I'd just as soon he had Jeff Skilling's jail cell.

Posted by: JEM at November 14, 2014 01:00 PM (o+SC1)

69 >>I'm guessing he had some foreknowledge of how the model scores certain parameters and criteria. He had to have help from inside. No way he could have accurately predicted how the model would weigh and score all those variables by himself.

I don't think that would be terribly difficult to come by. The CBO as the name would imply is a creature of Congress and the head of the CBO is appointed by the head of the House and Senate. The current head was appointed by Pelosi and Reid.

Posted by: JackStraw at November 14, 2014 01:00 PM (g1DWB)

70 "When we said you were stupid, we didn't mean you were stupid, ya dummies!"

Posted by: Seamus Muldoon at November 14, 2014 01:00 PM (NeFrd)

71 "Hmmm. Bear Claw."



Mary, you've had plenty. Put it down.

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at November 14, 2014 01:00 PM (LA7Cm)

72 Revolving door means people can work for the CBO, leave, and reverse engineer it.

50% revolving door tax, please.

Posted by: HoboJerk, TPHSATAR at November 14, 2014 01:00 PM (FA3Z7)

73 " He had to have help from inside."


You bet he did.


Rhymes with Harack Yomama.

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at November 14, 2014 12:58 PM (LA7Cm)


Nosack Obama?

Posted by: Berserker-Dragonheads Division at November 14, 2014 01:00 PM (FMbng)

74 Grubers?

Why do you hate chocolate-covered movie theater raisins?

Posted by: 100 million LIVs at November 14, 2014 01:00 PM (Qgr71)

75 And the sad thing is that absolutely NOTHING will come of any of this. Gruber will be a left wing hero and the right will just shake our tiny fists while bawling.

Posted by: Truck Monkey, Aiming His Torpedo at November 14, 2014 01:00 PM (32Ze2)

76 And, still, the only people "fooled" were liberals and our lessers in Government.

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) phone at November 14, 2014 01:01 PM (49zOr)

77 He should have asked for Jeff Skilling's paycheck.

Looking at his fees since 2009, I'm not sure he didn't.

Posted by: toby928(C) at November 14, 2014 01:01 PM (rwI+c)

78 But it's Unpossible that I am anti-drug. I mean everyone know that My Kind are nothing but massive drug users.
Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Now with extra taunting. at November 14, 2014 12:58 PM (mf5HN)

I didn't know that vertically-challenged velociraptor-ranching wimmin had such widespread problems with substance abuse.

Posted by: Insomniac at November 14, 2014 01:01 PM (DrWcr)

79 ObamaCare really is the gift that keeps on giving for Republicans.

Obama probably would have been a popular President had he just expanded MediCaid and declared victory. His biggest domestic achievement will be universally known as an epic train wreck.

We really haven't seen the worst of ObamaCare. It's going to be death by a thousand cuts for Democrats that keep defending it.

Posted by: McAdams at November 14, 2014 01:01 PM (MABF1)

80 It;'s a good day to die hard.

Posted by: Viagra Gruber at November 14, 2014 01:01 PM (Dwehj)

81 And I see others have already covered SnitzenGruber's big paydays.

Nancy Pelosi -- Never heard of him.

Posted by: GnuBreed at November 14, 2014 01:01 PM (2ZblH)

82 But it's Unpossible that I am anti-drug. I mean everyone know that My Kind are nothing but massive drug users.
Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Now with extra taunting. at November 14, 2014 12:58 PM (mf5HN)


Your "kind"??

"Kind"??

You mean totally awesome people?

Posted by: Sean Bannion at November 14, 2014 01:01 PM (6rKEC)

83 They paid Booger $400K to lie to us?

Your government atwerk.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, International Double-Naught Cat Speculator at November 14, 2014 01:01 PM (0HooB)

84 These models have huge #s of inputs and parameters. Hundreds, thousands, maybe more.

If Gruber's model had any of them off significantly from CBO's model -- it would have produced output that differed from CBO's and made it a poor predictive tool.

How did Gruber get his model to so accurately replicate CBO's model?

Posted by: Costanza Defense at November 14, 2014 01:01 PM (ZPrif)

85 And ole Gruber cleaned up financially, too as this WaTimes piece shows:



What is the kickback to Obola percentage? 80%? 90%?

Posted by: rickb223 at November 14, 2014 01:01 PM (AAJX/)

86 74 Grubers?

Why do you hate chocolate-covered movie theater raisins?
Posted by: 100 million LIVs at November 14, 2014 01:00 PM (Qgr71

Peanuts.

Posted by: Insomniac at November 14, 2014 01:01 PM (DrWcr)

87 Your "kind"??

"Kind"??

You mean totally awesome people?

Posted by: Sean Bannion at November 14, 2014 01:01 PM (6rKEC)



No.


Petite.



*trapdoors*

Posted by: EC at November 14, 2014 01:01 PM (GQ8sn)

88 Gruber will be a left wing hero and the right will just shake our tiny fists while bawling.

Posted by: Truck Monkey, Aiming His Torpedo at November 14, 2014 01:00 PM (32Ze2)



It's an acceptable and natural response, ok?!??

Posted by: Johnny Boehner at November 14, 2014 01:02 PM (da5Wo)

89 Heck. Nobody paid me that kind of scratch for all the accounting spreadsheets I put together. Did some whizbang stuff too at the time.

Posted by: Count de Monet at November 14, 2014 01:02 PM (JO9+V)

90
But question, is it the psychological damage that leads to the drug use or the drug use that leads to being psychologically damaged?
Posted by: BCochran1981 - Credible Hulk at November 14, 2014 12:59 PM (da5Wo)


Yes.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at November 14, 2014 01:02 PM (6rKEC)

91 Gruber needs to be the first one on the lamppost.

Posted by: rickl at November 14, 2014 01:02 PM (zoehZ)

92 When the Republicans get their AG in place in 2017 perhaps it will be time for some Holder type payback.


File fraud charges against Gruber and lying to congress, since that is two crimes prosecute him under RICO.

Posted by: Vic at November 14, 2014 01:02 PM (u9gzs)

93 " Gruber will be a left wing hero "


Probably so. The Left will love him for lying to their faces and treating them like fools.


They lap that shit up.

Posted by: Ricardo Kill at November 14, 2014 01:02 PM (LA7Cm)

94 Well every (R) Senate candidate ran on abolishing Ocare, so by the end of January it should be an accomplished feat.

Posted by: SE Pa Moron at November 14, 2014 01:02 PM (zxQ4h)

95 Is 'Dumb and Dumber 2' a political documentary?

Posted by: Stateless Infidel at November 14, 2014 01:02 PM (AC0lD)

96 Dis guy is a wreakin' machine!

Posted by: Mickey Goldmill at November 14, 2014 01:02 PM (rwI+c)

97 How did Gruber get his model to so accurately replicate CBO's model?

Posted by: Costanza Defense at November 14, 2014 01:01 PM (ZPrif)



You have 1 new message. (2GB attachment).

Posted by: EC at November 14, 2014 01:02 PM (GQ8sn)

98 But it's Unpossible that I am anti-drug. I mean everyone know that My Kind are nothing but massive drug users.
Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Now with extra taunting. at November 14, 2014 12:58 PM (mf5HN)

Unless you meant members of the legal profession, because in that case, yeah.

Posted by: Insomniac at November 14, 2014 01:03 PM (DrWcr)

99 It's a tax.

Posted by: Viagra Gruber at November 14, 2014 01:03 PM (Dwehj)

100 I suppose we should be happy to have this kind of material to rub the
Left's collective nose in, but I'm just becoming more and more incensed
at the vile gall of it all.

It's all pointless information if the MFM won't report it, and executive branch won't enforce laws, and the legislative and judicial branches won't discipline the executive.

Plain and simple: We have a dictatorship now.

Posted by: despair at November 14, 2014 01:03 PM (dcY7v)

101 How did Gruber get his model to so accurately replicate CBO's model?



By having the CBO model on a thumb drive.

Posted by: rickb223 at November 14, 2014 01:03 PM (AAJX/)

102 Gruber figured out the lies they wanted to hear and told them to them.

Posted by: --- at November 14, 2014 01:03 PM (MMC8r)

103 The Free Shit Army and their vile leadership simply don't care how this was done nor if squares like you and I object to it. The FSA gets their money for nothing. The leadership gets their power and connections to endless wealth.


This sordid affair will disappear down the memory hole soon enough and Team FSA will move on to its next objective. It's all good.

Posted by: Jaws at November 14, 2014 01:04 PM (kWq/t)

104 Is his first name Dick?


Middle name Schickel?


I think I know this guy.

Posted by: Seamus Muldoon at November 14, 2014 01:04 PM (NeFrd)

105 Unless you meant members of the legal profession, because in that case, yeah.
Posted by: Insomniac at November 14, 2014 01:03 PM (DrWcr)



Scuse me. Alcoholics, not drug users. Mmmkay?

Posted by: BCochran1981 Esq. at November 14, 2014 01:04 PM (da5Wo)

106 Lies, damn lies and statistics. When you need an expert at lying, hire a credible MIT professor who is also a statistician.

Posted by: Guy Fawkes at November 14, 2014 01:04 PM (zpZLP)

107
It's the pain of falling off little ladders called concealed inside so many event cakes.

There's physical pain, sure. But nothing compared to the mental anguish. So the wee ones self-medicate as best they can.

Posted by: ScoggDog at November 14, 2014 01:04 PM (RKJF2)

108 But question, is it the psychological damage that leads to the drug use or the drug use that leads to being psychologically damaged?
Posted by: BCochran1981 - Credible Hulk at November 14, 2014 12:59 PM (da5Wo)


Yes.
Posted by: Sean Bannion at November 14, 2014 01:02 PM (6rKEC)

It's a good point, as many people with mental illness will self-medicate with illegal drugs, which can lead to further psychological decline, which leads to more self-medication, which leads to...well, you get the idea.

Posted by: Insomniac at November 14, 2014 01:04 PM (DrWcr)

109 I really want to know how these models are coded.

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if it's just a big Excel spreadsheet.

Posted by: Costanza Defense at November 14, 2014 01:04 PM (ZPrif)

110 So he made $400 large each time he went to a different state to share his thoughts on o-care?


I'm doing it wrong...


Posted by: EC at November 14, 2014 01:05 PM (GQ8sn)

111 Jon Gruber ? Never heard of him.

Posted by: Nancy Pelosi at November 14, 2014 01:05 PM (rwI+c)

112 I'm guessing he had some foreknowledge of how the model scores certain parameters and criteria. He had to have help from inside. No way he could have accurately predicted how the model would weigh and score all those variables by himself.

I don't know. The CBO models are just models made up by people based on certain economic assumptions. He isn't accurately predicting the outcome of the lottery or something. After all, the CBO model itself is supposed to predict the outcome of legislation in something resembling a realistic future. It's not designed like a code.

I'd guess anybody who has carefully studied the CBO and was well-versed in econometrics could piece together what they're thinking. However, that might require too much data and so it's likely that Gruber had some help.

And CBO ain't NSA. Giving away trade secrets isn't treason.

Posted by: AmishDude at November 14, 2014 01:05 PM (b4b5c)

113 It's a subsidy.

Posted by: Viagra Gruber at November 14, 2014 01:06 PM (Dwehj)

114 Just peachy.

--from Ace's WaPo link:

In any case, the passage of the Affordable Care Act in 2010 has been lucrative for Gruber and his microsimulation model. All told, he has been hired by at least eight states to provide advice or assist in creating the health-insurance exchanges that are at the heart of the Affordable Care Act: Colorado,Connecticut, Maine, Michigan, Minnesota, Vermont, West Virginia and Wisconsin.

Posted by: Your Friendly Danube River Guide at November 14, 2014 01:06 PM (RJMhd)

115 It's completely implausible that Gruber could just guess at CBO's model and get it so accurate it could be used to predict CBO's behavior.

He's praised as an economic genius for having such an accurate, useful model. He had to have cheated.

Posted by: Costanza Defense at November 14, 2014 01:06 PM (ZPrif)

116 Some feel good OT.

Baby smiling at 31 weeks ultrasound.

http://preview.tinyurl.com/ld2ow9l

Posted by: flounder at November 14, 2014 01:06 PM (sDapq)

117 Gruber needs to be the first one on the lamppost.
Posted by: rickl at November 14, 2014 01:02 PM (zoehZ)


Right next to the bitch on Drudge's home page.

If we were still America.

Which we are not.

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at November 14, 2014 01:06 PM (zF6Iw)

118 Walker needs to fire Gruber ASAP.

Posted by: Your Friendly Danube River Guide at November 14, 2014 01:07 PM (RJMhd)

119 116 Some feel good OT.

Baby smiling at 31 weeks ultrasound.

http://preview.tinyurl.com/ld2ow9l
Posted by: flounder at November 14, 2014 01:06 PM (sDapq)

This maudlin fascination with a clump of fetal cells is beyond me.

Posted by: Wendy Davis at November 14, 2014 01:07 PM (DrWcr)

120 We really haven't seen the worst of ObamaCare. It's going to be death by a thousand cuts for Democrats that keep defending it.

A commenter this morning got his new Ocare premium, up 30% -- annual premium now $16,296.00

For just husband and wife.

Posted by: SE Pa Moron at November 14, 2014 01:07 PM (zxQ4h)

121 It's a good point, as many people with mental illness will self-medicate with illegal drugs, which can lead to further psychological decline, which leads to more self-medication, which leads to...well, you get the idea.

Posted by: Insomniac at November 14, 2014 01:04 PM (DrWcr)


So am I drinking because I'm depressed or depressed because I'm drinking?

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at November 14, 2014 01:07 PM (zF6Iw)

122
*nods*

Truth.

But question, is it the psychological damage that leads to the drug use or the drug use that leads to being psychologically damaged?
Posted by: BCochran1981 - Credible Hulk at November 14, 2014 12:59 PM (da5Wo)



I don't know, I think I'm going to have to go listen to NPR and watch some episodes of 60 Minutes and read the NYT to find out.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Now with extra taunting. at November 14, 2014 01:07 PM (mf5HN)

123 So am I drinking because I'm depressed or depressed because I'm drinking?

What does it matter at this point? Bottoms up.

Posted by: toby928(C) at November 14, 2014 01:08 PM (rwI+c)

124 I don't know, I think I'm going to have to go listen to NPR and watch some episodes of 60 Minutes and read the NYT to find out.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Now with extra taunting. at November 14, 2014 01:07 PM (mf5HN)


Don't forget to Netflix some episodes of Will and Grace too!

Posted by: BCochran1981 Esq. at November 14, 2014 01:08 PM (da5Wo)

125 I don't know, I think I'm going to have to go listen to NPR and watch some episodes of 60 Minutes and read the NYT to find out.
Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Now with extra taunting. at November 14, 2014 01:07 PM (mf5HN)


Or you could give Mrs. Bannion a call.

Because at the end of that you'll still have your sanity....and your information.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at November 14, 2014 01:09 PM (6rKEC)

126 I mean everyone know that My Kind are nothing but massive drug users.

They didn't build that Yellow Brick Road sober.

Posted by: --- at November 14, 2014 01:09 PM (MMC8r)

127 $400k?

Geebus, I knew I should have gone into healthcare economics.

Hey AmishDude, you think if we mash up math and bioethics we can bilk the government out of tons of cash?

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) And father to be in 2 months! at November 14, 2014 01:09 PM (HDwDg)

128

Gruber's going to turn out to be some kind of sick freak of nature. Pedo, maybe.

Like one of the quotes in the Patterico piece, he gets off on his own deception.

Something is intrinsically wrong with him.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at November 14, 2014 01:09 PM (IXrOn)

129 And the ultimate penalty for his nation-destroying lies?

Death?

Lengthy imprisonment?

Nay! Merely millions in speaking fees and book advances.

Posted by: Sharkman at November 14, 2014 01:09 PM (VdIfd)

130 Hey AmishDude, you think if we mash up math and bioethics we can bilk the government out of tons of cash?

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) And father to be in 2 months! at November 14, 2014 01:09 PM (HDwDg)



Math can do anything.

Posted by: BCochran1981 Esq. at November 14, 2014 01:09 PM (da5Wo)

131 Don't forget to Netflix some episodes of Will and Grace too!
Posted by: BCochran1981 Esq. at November 14, 2014 01:08 PM (da5Wo)



That's in the queue after Orange Is The New Black and right before Glee.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Now with extra taunting. at November 14, 2014 01:09 PM (mf5HN)

132 So am I drinking because I'm depressed or depressed because I'm drinking?
Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at November 14, 2014 01:07 PM (zF6Iw)

Yes. Usually the depression starts things off, but alcohol is itself a depressant. Also, long term alcohol abuse can cause or worsen depression and cause brain damage.

Posted by: Insomniac at November 14, 2014 01:10 PM (DrWcr)

133 >>How did Gruber get his model to so accurately replicate CBO's model?

I think you are making the assumption that the process includes submitting your data to CBO and waiting for a report.

If you read Gateway Pundit you will see that it is a more iterative process with the CBO reporting back to various Congressional committees on their findings.

I think the process is more like submit, get results, tweak, get results, repeat until you get what you want.

On and a simple google search will tell you that Doug Elmendorf, head of the CBO, was an economics professor at Harvard while Gruber was their getting his PhD in economics. Chances they didn't know each other = 0.

Posted by: JackStraw at November 14, 2014 01:10 PM (g1DWB)

134 Heh. I went in the kitchen and there is ... a bear claw!

Posted by: toby928(C) at November 14, 2014 01:10 PM (rwI+c)

135 Qui tam action against Gruber?

Posted by: Furious George at November 14, 2014 01:10 PM (UlJ3l)

136 Like one of the quotes in the Patterico piece, he gets off on his own deception.

Something is intrinsically wrong with him.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at November 14, 2014 01:09 PM (IXrOn)

Socio or psychopath, probably.

Posted by: Insomniac at November 14, 2014 01:10 PM (DrWcr)

137 Math can do anything.
Posted by: BCochran1981 Esq. at November 14, 2014 01:09 PM (da5Wo)


Except sociability.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at November 14, 2014 01:11 PM (6rKEC)

138
Wait, wait, wait ...

Boehner's Skin Tone is the new Black ?

Posted by: ScoggDog at November 14, 2014 01:11 PM (RKJF2)

139 Considering he used it to tell the right lies to push it through the approval process, it's not inconceivable that he was fed the information he needed from the Dems and the Administration.

They've proven they wanted it bad enough and are dishonest enough to do it.

Posted by: --- at November 14, 2014 01:11 PM (MMC8r)

140 So am I drinking because I'm depressed or depressed because I'm drinking?
Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at November 14, 2014 01:07 PM (zF6Iw)


Yes.

Posted by: Bob's House of Flannel Shirts and Cheap Bourbon at November 14, 2014 01:11 PM (vgIRn)

141 He's black can't touch him.

Also, didn't John McClane throw this fucker off the roof?

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at November 14, 2014 01:11 PM (oFCZn)

142 their = there

Posted by: JackStraw at November 14, 2014 01:11 PM (g1DWB)

143 Hmm, over at Gatewaypundit, there is a story telling how Pete Orzag, former CBO director, and Alice Rivlin, founding director of the CBO, was in the room when Gruber and many others discussed how to pencil whip savings in the ACA. I'm sure they knew the models. http://tinyurl.com/k7etgem

Posted by: no good deed at November 14, 2014 01:12 PM (w3a0Z)

144 134 Heh. I went in the kitchen and there is ... a bear claw!
Posted by: toby928(C) at November 14, 2014 01:10 PM (rwI+c)

So I missed a couple of manicure sessions, big deal.

Posted by: Andrew Sullivan at November 14, 2014 01:12 PM (DrWcr)

145 Math can do anything.

Posted by: BCochran1981 Esq. at November 14, 2014 01:09 PM (da5Wo)


Let's see, multiply the QALY, carry the 1, add in the expected benefit to society.

Ok, what I have determined is that stuff you have to inject into yourself to live, not worth it. You'll stop getting it right now so we can give it to someone who went to Harvard.

See? I can totally be a government stooge

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) And father to be in 2 months! at November 14, 2014 01:12 PM (HDwDg)

146 "Its sole virtues over basically any other possible plan were that it
scored well with the Congressional Budget Office and that it was too
confusing for voters to understand what was going on."

The biggest single piece of deceit in Obamacare relating to CBO scoring wasn't even hidden. Brazenly out in the open.

It was that Democrats built in sweeping cuts to Medicare.

It was never even hypothetically a possibility that those cuts would stand. If they had, half the hospitals in the country would stop accepting Medicare patients.

The obvious gambit here was that Democrats would use the hypothecated cost savings from the notional Medicare cuts to get a good CBO fiscal score, then pass Obamacare by loudly touting the CBO number, then quietly use a "doc fix" bill to retroactively undo the Medicare cuts.

This was not in any way a secret. I was running around with my own hair on fire about it at the time. So were many others.

And, guess what? It went down precisely as predicted.

Dingy Harry had the "doc fix" bill to undo the phantom Medicare savings queued up in the Senate about three weeks after Obama signed the ACA into law.

And the doc fix passed. Even Republicans voted for it, because no one in Congress is willing to shoulder the risk of cutting Granny's Medicare for real.

It's time to get the CBO out of the forecasting business. Their work, not top notch at the best of times, becomes worse than useless when it's subject to this sort of legislative shitweasellery.

Posted by: torquewrench at November 14, 2014 01:12 PM (noWW6)

147 @135

I'd prefer River Tam action against Gruber.

Posted by: AllenG (DedicatedTenther) phone at November 14, 2014 01:12 PM (49zOr)

148 Short Description of Gruber Microsimulation Model
http://tinyurl.com/mw66czq

The model allows the user to input a set of policy parameters, and output the impact of that policy on public sector costs and the distribution of insurance coverage. The modeling approach used here is the type of "microsimulation" modeling used by the Treasury Department, CBO, and other government entities. This approach consists of drawing on the best evidence available in the health economics literature to model how individuals will respond to the changes in the insurance environment induced by changes in government policy.

The model takes as its base the February and March Current Population Surveys. The March survey contains information on family demographics, tax rates, and insurance coverage.
The February survey contains information on insurance offering by employers. I match to these surveys information on:

Group insurance costs and the distribution of premiums across employers and employees, imputed by firm location and firm size;

Nongroup insurance costs, which use a base cost estimated from existing nongroup insurance pricing, adjusted by age, sex, and health status;

Public insurance costs; and

Underlying health care costs, which are imputed by age and health status.

This base set of data is then used to compute, for every possible policy change, the impact of that policy change on the eligibility for, and price of, various types of insurance.

These price and eligibility changes are then run through a detailed and integrated set of behavioral equations that relate them to behavioral responses by individuals, families, and firms.

These behavioral responses are modeled using the best available evidence from the health economics literature, and include responses such as:

The extent to which the currently uninsured will purchase newly subsidized insurance coverage or take up newly available public coverage;

The extent to which those with existing insurance coverage will take up subsidies to that type of insurance coverage (e.g. to what extent will the nongroup insured take up subsidies to nongroup insurance?);

The extent to which those with one form of insurance coverage will switch to another form if it is subsidized;

The extent to which firms will react to the subsidies to non-employer insurance by dropping their offering of insurance to their employees, or by cutting back on employer premium
contributions to insurance; and

The extent to which those employees dropped from group coverage will then take up other forms of insurance coverage.

It is very important to model potential firm responses to these policy changes. To capture firm responses, I have created "synthetic" firms in the CPS by drawing for each worker other "co-workers" in the CPS based on that worker's wage, industry, firm size, and health insurance
offering status. These synthetic co-workers are grouped together to form firms, and I then model firm responses based on the average effects of policies on their workforce.

Posted by: Costanza Defense at November 14, 2014 01:12 PM (ZPrif)

149 Gruber is the smart MTN geek who everybody ignored in high school and college

Now he has this skill which makes the "cool kids" accept him. The president needs him. He meets with leaders of Congress and Governors regularly. They need him. He feels very very important

It's a seminal moment in his life and he can't stop talking about it. Bragging about it. Because his new stature relys on it

Posted by: ThunderB at November 14, 2014 01:13 PM (zOTsN)

150 So I missed a couple of manicure sessions, big deal.
Posted by: Andrew Sullivan at November 14, 2014 01:12 PM (DrWcr)


Whew.

Got that swallow of coffee down in time.

A little warning next time...will ya?!??!

Posted by: Sean Bannion at November 14, 2014 01:13 PM (6rKEC)

151 I pick my gruber a sometimes. When no ones looking.

Posted by: M.nicely at November 14, 2014 01:13 PM (MNdHi)

152
He's black can't touch him.



Also, didn't John McClane throw this fucker off the roof?

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at November 14, 2014 01:11 PM (oFCZn)


Wait, who's black?

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit, aka Beth at November 14, 2014 01:13 PM (4df7R)

153 Has anyone checked to see if Gruber is a Cherokee from Oklahoma?

Posted by: GnuBreed at November 14, 2014 01:13 PM (2ZblH)

154 That's in the queue after Orange Is The New Black and right before Glee.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Now with extra taunting. at November 14, 2014 01:09 PM (mf5HN)



I think the first season of Modern Family is out too.

Posted by: BCochran1981 Esq. at November 14, 2014 01:13 PM (da5Wo)

155 I pick my grubers sometimes. When no ones looking.

Posted by: M.nicely at November 14, 2014 01:14 PM (MNdHi)

156 >>Math can do anything.

Grubergate: Lawyers Strike Back!

Posted by: JackStraw at November 14, 2014 01:14 PM (g1DWB)

157
But it's Unpossible that I am anti-drug. I mean everyone know that My Kind are nothing but massive drug users.
Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Now with extra taunting. at November 14, 2014 12:58 PM (mf5HN)

Lilliputiens?

Posted by: wrg500 at November 14, 2014 01:14 PM (sWgE+)

158 Posted by: Costanza Defense at November 14, 2014 01:12 PM (ZPrif)

I only half skimmed that, but I can almost assure you it's missing any acknowledgment of chaos and complexity.

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) And father to be in 2 months! at November 14, 2014 01:15 PM (HDwDg)

159 Lilliputiens?
Posted by: wrg500 at November 14, 2014 01:14 PM (sWgE+)

Oh boy. I think AtC might have a modest proposal for you.

Posted by: Insomniac at November 14, 2014 01:15 PM (DrWcr)

160 115 It's completely implausible that Gruber could just guess at CBO's model and get it so accurate it could be used to predict CBO's behavior.

He's praised as an economic genius for having such an accurate, useful model. He had to have cheated.
Posted by: Costanza Defense at November 14, 2014 01:06 PM (ZPrif)


You know...now that we have the keys to the CBO, I think this could be determined quite easily.

Posted by: AmishDude at November 14, 2014 01:15 PM (b4b5c)

161 Did someone say Bearclaw? Believe me..... you'll want nothing to do with it.

Posted by: Timothy Treadwell at November 14, 2014 01:15 PM (32Ze2)

162 Ok, what I have determined is that stuff you have to inject into yourself to live, not worth it. You'll stop getting it right now so we can give it to someone who went to Harvard.

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) And father to be in 2 months! at November 14, 2014 01:12 PM (HDwDg)



*loads the Mossberg*

Sure thing sparky.

Posted by: BCochran1981 Esq. at November 14, 2014 01:15 PM (da5Wo)

163 Hope you're covered, cold and flu season ....

https://twitter.com/kbdabear/status/533321794305150977

Posted by: kbdabear at November 14, 2014 01:15 PM (GrXXa)

164 Whew.

Got that swallow of coffee down in time.

A little warning next time...will ya?!??!
Posted by: Sean Bannion at November 14, 2014 01:13 PM (6rKEC)



You know the rules about consuming anything whilst reading the comments.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Now with extra taunting. at November 14, 2014 01:15 PM (mf5HN)

165 This is just a local crime story.

Posted by: Sarah Kliff at November 14, 2014 01:15 PM (6um35)

166 Posted by: Costanza Defense at November 14, 2014 01:12 PM (ZPrif)

Having gone back and actually read it, you know what else.

IT'S NOT ACTUALLY USING ANY REAL ECONIMIC DATA.

Or at least the reported results clearly didn't.

You know how I know? All the shit about ER utilization going down, even though every study we have shows that ER utilization goes *up* with increased insurance coverage.

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) And father to be in 2 months! at November 14, 2014 01:17 PM (HDwDg)

167 You know the rules about consuming anything whilst reading the comments.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Now with extra taunting. at November 14, 2014 01:15 PM (mf5HN)



Why is it always about the drugs with you people?

Posted by: BCochran1981 Esq. at November 14, 2014 01:17 PM (da5Wo)

168 Gruber's model didn't have to be accurate -- CBO's wasn't -- it just had to reliably spit out the same #s as CBO's model did.

Posted by: Costanza Defense at November 14, 2014 01:17 PM (ZPrif)

169 You know the rules about consuming anything whilst reading the comments.
Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Now with extra taunting. at November 14, 2014 01:15 PM (mf5HN)


But I DID set my keyboard to the side and cover my monitor with saran wrap!!!!

Posted by: Sean Bannion at November 14, 2014 01:17 PM (6rKEC)

170 Why is it always about the drugs with you people?
Posted by: BCochran1981 Esq. at November 14, 2014 01:17 PM (da5Wo)

What do you mean, "you people"?

Posted by: Sgt. Lincoln Osiris at November 14, 2014 01:18 PM (DrWcr)

171 from the health economics literature,

^

So that is referred to twice--gawd wonder if Gruber wrote "the health economics literature?

These price and eligibility changes are then run through a detailed and integrated set of behavioral equations that relate them to behavioral responses by individuals, families, and firms.

These behavioral responses are modeled using the best available evidence from the health economics literature, and include responses such as:



"behavioral equations that relate them to behavioral responses"

Good luck with that...

Honestly anyone that "pretends" to know the outcome of the ObamaCare law--bridge to boondoggle is an arrogant, lying SOB.

Posted by: Your Friendly Danube River Guide at November 14, 2014 01:18 PM (RJMhd)

172 Why is it always about the drugs with you people?
Posted by: BCochran1981 Esq. at November 14, 2014 01:17 PM (da5Wo


If you'd just stop drinking that cocaine cola for a minute, you'd know.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at November 14, 2014 01:18 PM (6rKEC)

173 The point of Gruber's model wasn't to predict the real world, it was to predict CBO's model. Which it did very well.

Posted by: Costanza Defense at November 14, 2014 01:18 PM (ZPrif)

174 Posted by: BCochran1981 Esq. at November 14, 2014 01:15 PM (da5Wo


Pfff, I'd be careful with that.

When the burning times come, you're going to need a biochemist to purify that pigs blood so you can stay alive. .

(OTOH, my protein purification skills have gotten weak.)

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) And father to be in 2 months! at November 14, 2014 01:19 PM (HDwDg)

175 I eat my Grubers..... What? They're good!

Posted by: Truck Monkey, Aiming His Torpedo at November 14, 2014 01:19 PM (32Ze2)

176 "How did Gruber get his model to so accurately replicate CBO's model?"

Someone from CBO collaborates with him every step of the way. The corruption is total.

Posted by: despair at November 14, 2014 01:19 PM (dcY7v)

177 (OTOH, my protein purification skills have gotten weak.)
Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) And father to be in 2 months! at November 14, 2014 01:19 PM (HDwDg)

Mine are still top notch!

Posted by: Sandra Fluke at November 14, 2014 01:19 PM (DrWcr)

178 Why is it always about the drugs with you people?
Posted by: BCochran1981 Esq. at November 14, 2014 01:17 PM (da5Wo)



Look, I have to do something while traveling to Folsom Street.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Now with extra taunting. at November 14, 2014 01:19 PM (mf5HN)

179 >>Gruber's model didn't have to be accurate -- CBO's wasn't -- it just had to reliably spit out the same #s as CBO's model did.

You're thinking too much. As I said, go read Gateway Pundit. The CBO met regularly with Congressional committees and "experts" regarding Obamacare.

You know what makes it easy to have the same results as other people? Meet with them regularly and show them how to do it.

Posted by: JackStraw at November 14, 2014 01:19 PM (g1DWB)

180 168 Gruber's model didn't have to be accurate -- CBO's wasn't -- it just had to reliably spit out the same #s as CBO's model did.
Posted by: Costanza Defense at November 14, 2014 01:17 PM (ZPrif)


*******

Her's the thing I swear back when this was all news--

CBO said something like--

we throw in the towel, we give up trying to score this damn thing.

Posted by: Your Friendly Danube River Guide at November 14, 2014 01:20 PM (RJMhd)

181 Let's fire up a Groober!

Posted by: Us People at November 14, 2014 01:20 PM (Dwehj)

182

What do you mean, "you people"?

Posted by: Sgt. Lincoln Osiris at November 14, 2014 01:18 PM (DrWcr)

What do YOU mean, 'you people?'

Posted by: Alpa Chino at November 14, 2014 01:20 PM (MMC8r)

183 What's funny is the reaction of the Left to Gruber and how different it would be if someone in "our" ranks pulled this stunt.

Can you imagine if a Bush official gleefully told people he purposely manipulated the projected Iraq war costs in order to fool voters into supporting the war? Conservatives would be the first ones to call for his head, yet liberals circle the wagon with Gruber.

I'm honestly glad their doubling down with Gruber. My guess is other shoes are going to fall and ObamaCare is going to have about the same amount of support as Ebola.

Posted by: McAdams at November 14, 2014 01:20 PM (MABF1)

184 Probably because Gruber's model almost identical to the CBO model.

CBO carries huge weight. Both Dems and Repubs obviously want to be able to predict CBO results ahead of time.

Gruber's model let the Dems do that.

Posted by: Costanza Defense at November 14, 2014 01:20 PM (ZPrif)

185 You know how I know? All the shit about ER utilization going down, even though every study we have shows that ER utilization goes *up* with increased insurance coverage.



Que, ese?

Posted by: rickb223 at November 14, 2014 01:20 PM (AAJX/)

186 Don't worry babe, I'm only going to model what I might do in your mouth.

Posted by: weft cut-loop, now in Dark Chunks! at November 14, 2014 01:20 PM (/lTUs)

187 Gruber admits he had Kennedy show him how to use the fed to cover the costs of Romney care


So likewise it looks like CBO helped Gruber hide the costs of Obamacare

it wasn't his smarts. It was his compliance

Posted by: ThunderB at November 14, 2014 01:21 PM (zOTsN)

188 (OTOH, my protein purification skills have gotten weak.)

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) And father to be in 2 months! at November 14, 2014 01:19 PM (HDwDg)




*strains egg whites through pantyhose*


Done.

Posted by: EC at November 14, 2014 01:21 PM (GQ8sn)

189 Bernie Madoff scam only cost his "willing" investors approximately $10 Billion. How much has this cockroach's scam cost the American public, who had this crammed down our throats by willing and complicit democrats, aside from the consulting fees paid to this fraudster?

Anyone have any rough ballpark numbers?

Posted by: flounder at November 14, 2014 01:21 PM (sDapq)

190 Mmm. Nothing like a bear claw warmed with a little light frying with butter in an iron skillet.

Microwaves are of the devil.

Posted by: toby928(C) at November 14, 2014 01:21 PM (rwI+c)

191 Hey AmishDude, you think if we mash up math and bioethics we can bilk the government out of tons of cash?

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) And father to be in 2 months! at November 14, 2014 01:09 PM (HDwDg)


Nope. Bioethics is even worse than math. Math is too honest. If we can't prove it, we can't do it. And most of us aren't dishonest enough to engage in the system of alchemy that characterizes the scientific grant system.

Bioethics tells scientists (specifically biologists, of course) that they can't do something they really, really, really want to do. Which makes you anti-science.

So, no, we missed out on the really good scams.

Posted by: AmishDude at November 14, 2014 01:21 PM (b4b5c)

192 *strains egg whites through pantyhose*


Done.

Posted by: EC at November 14, 2014 01:21 PM (GQ8sn)

Those weren't egg whites...

Posted by: Insomniac at November 14, 2014 01:21 PM (DrWcr)

193 Bernie Madoff scam only cost his "willing" investors approximately $10 Billion. How much has this cockroach's scam cost the American public, who had this crammed down our throats by willing and complicit democrats, aside from the consulting fees paid to this fraudster?

Anyone have any rough ballpark numbers?

Posted by: flounder at November 14, 2014 01:21 PM (sDapq)




$1.4 trillion.

Posted by: EC at November 14, 2014 01:21 PM (GQ8sn)

194 Lilliputiens?
Posted by: wrg500 at November 14, 2014 01:14 PM (sWgE+)




Winkies. That'll work even if one is not up to speed on his or her L. Frank Baum.

Posted by: Just Some Guy at November 14, 2014 01:22 PM (vgIRn)

195 I only half skimmed that, but I can almost assure you it's missing any acknowledgment of chaos and complexity.

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) And father to be in 2 months! at November 14, 2014 01:15 PM (HDwDg)

The CBO is explicitly required by Congress to ignore any negative feedbacks in their models. An example of what they CANNOT take into account:

The cigarette tax is proposed to be increased by $10 per pack. The CBO would look at current pack sales and multiply by 10 to get 'new revenues created'. No negative effects on pack sales can be considered for the revenue projection.

Posted by: GnuBreed at November 14, 2014 01:22 PM (2ZblH)

196 Mine are still top notch!

Posted by: Sandra Fluke at November 14, 2014 01:19 PM (DrWcr)

He said purification, not consumption.

Posted by: flounder at November 14, 2014 01:22 PM (sDapq)

197 Look, I have to do something while traveling to Folsom Street.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Now with extra taunting. at November 14, 2014 01:19 PM (mf5HN)



Piker.

Posted by: Sao Paulo at November 14, 2014 01:22 PM (da5Wo)

198 (OTOH, my protein purification skills have gotten weak.)
Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) And father to be in 2 months! at November 14, 2014 01:19 PM (HDwDg)

Mine are still top notch!
Posted by: Sandra Fluke at November 14, 2014 01:19 PM (DrWcr)


He said purification. He didn't say consumption]/I]

Posted by: Sean Bannion at November 14, 2014 01:22 PM (6rKEC)

199 Winkies.

I LOVE winkies!

Posted by: Harry Reid at November 14, 2014 01:22 PM (DrWcr)

200 Anyone have any rough ballpark numbers?

Posted by: flounder at November 14, 2014 01:21 PM (sDapq)



$1.4 trillion.

Posted by: EC at November 14, 2014 01:21 PM (GQ8sn)
*********
And this is just the beginning

Posted by: Truck Monkey, Aiming His Torpedo at November 14, 2014 01:23 PM (32Ze2)

201 Gee...
I wonder what else this administration may have lied to me about?

It's still racist of me to not trust this bastard, and his lying minions though....right?

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at November 14, 2014 01:23 PM (n0a1r)

202 Dammit flounder!

GMTA

Posted by: Sean Bannion at November 14, 2014 01:23 PM (6rKEC)

203
He said purification. He didn't say consumption]/I]
Posted by: Sean Bannion at November 14, 2014 01:22 PM (6rKEC)

Think civet cat.

Posted by: Sandra Fluke at November 14, 2014 01:23 PM (DrWcr)

204 Posted by: AmishDude at November 14, 2014 01:21 PM (b4b5c

Eh, all the really smart scam artists bioethicists got in with industry real quick and suddenly decided no science was off limits.

That's how you keep the money going (and I'm told get yourself a named chair somewhere.)

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) And father to be in 2 months! at November 14, 2014 01:23 PM (HDwDg)

205 The CBO is explicitly required by Congress to ignore any negative feedbacks in their models.

Fymynysts hardest hit?

Posted by: HR needs donuts at November 14, 2014 01:24 PM (ZKzrr)

206 "You know how I know? All the shit about ER utilization going down,
even though every study we have shows that ER utilization goes *up* with
increased insurance coverage."

Yep.

With Romneycare being the example in most of those studies.

The proponents of Romneycare, to include Romney himself, said that it would drive down inappropriate ER utilization.

Then Romneycare was enacted, and, _mirabile dictu_, inappropriate ER utilization went up rather than down. Way up.

Damn! What could be the matter? It's a total mystery.

Oh well. Let's just take the same model, implemented by the same people, and scale it up to national size, and make the same claim about ER use going down. For sure it's gonna work this time round! Serious you guys.

Posted by: torquewrench at November 14, 2014 01:24 PM (noWW6)

207 If the CBO would have worked with any Dem hack to help them massage the #s, then there would be no need for Gruber.

Gruber used his magically accurate model to make some nice cash -- presumably because his model was more accurate than other models by competing Dem hacks. Gruber wasn't the only prog economist look for money, power, and status in the Obama admin.

Gruber had competitive advantages over other left-leaning economists, stats-geeks, and economic modelers competing for the same business he was in.

Gruber's model replicated CBO better than other competing models from other Democrat operatives and econometricians.

Posted by: Costanza Defense at November 14, 2014 01:25 PM (ZPrif)

208 The cigarette tax is proposed to be increased by $10 per pack. The CBO would look at current pack sales and multiply by 10 to get 'new revenues created'. No negative effects on pack sales can be considered for the revenue
projection.


So. Second grade math? With wishes and unicorn farts?

Posted by: rickb223 at November 14, 2014 01:25 PM (AAJX/)

209 I still say you believe Gruber when he says his intent was to deceive CBO.


Let him go to war with CBO essentially and declare them to be his fools.


I don't know why people want to run interference for Gruber essentially in that area.

Posted by: Your Friendly Danube River Guide at November 14, 2014 01:25 PM (RJMhd)

210 Scuse me. Alcoholics, not drug users. Mmmkay?
Posted by: BCochran1981 Esq. at November 14, 2014 01:04 PM


*ahem* Point of order. We're drunks. Alcoholics go to meetings.

Posted by: RedMindBlueState, Esq. at November 14, 2014 01:25 PM (knoK7)

211 You know what would fix all this? Single payer.
Judy Judy Judy

Posted by: Gruber Pyle at November 14, 2014 01:25 PM (W5DcG)

212 I am so tired of schmart people with computer models predicting what's best for me. I guess free will was plowed under by computers.

Posted by: Super Creepy Rob Lowe at November 14, 2014 01:25 PM (oDCMR)

213 Right next to the bitch on Drudge's home page.


Is that a Wise Latina?

Posted by: Us People at November 14, 2014 01:25 PM (Dwehj)

214 If the CBO would have worked with any Dem hack to help them massage the #s, then there would be no need for Gruber.

********

Exactly.

Posted by: Your Friendly Danube River Guide at November 14, 2014 01:26 PM (RJMhd)

215 So basically we're looking at a system-wide conspiracy to deceive.

And our leaders view the machinery designed to provide fiscal responsibility as another printing press for propaganda.

This entire government needs to be purged.

Posted by: --- at November 14, 2014 01:26 PM (MMC8r)

216 How long before Moochelle greases up and does a naked-butt photoshoot to distract the (still largely dormant) MFM from covering any more of Grubergate?

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit, aka Beth at November 14, 2014 01:26 PM (4df7R)

217 *ahem* Point of order. We're drunks. Alcoholics go to meetings.

Posted by: RedMindBlueState, Esq. at November 14, 2014 01:25 PM (knoK7)



Point *hiccup* to that fucking awesome *hiccup* guy over there.

Posted by: BCochran1981 Esq. at November 14, 2014 01:27 PM (da5Wo)

218 Bernie Madoff scam only cost his "willing" investors approximately $10
Billion. How much has this cockroach's scam cost the American public,
who had this crammed down our throats by willing and complicit
democrats, aside from the consulting fees paid to this fraudster?

Anyone have any rough ballpark numbers?


Yes: One Healthcare System.

Posted by: despair at November 14, 2014 01:27 PM (dcY7v)

219 216 How long before Moochelle greases up and does a naked-butt photoshoot to distract the (still largely dormant) MFM from covering any more of Grubergate?

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit, aka Beth at November 14, 2014 01:26 PM (4df7R)



*stares and stares*

I just called you a really filthy name.

Posted by: BCochran1981 Esq. at November 14, 2014 01:27 PM (da5Wo)

220 When accountability is subverted, it can just be another way to get what you want.

Posted by: --- at November 14, 2014 01:28 PM (MMC8r)

221 It's days like this when I wished I still drank.

Posted by: Truck Monkey, Aiming His Torpedo at November 14, 2014 01:28 PM (32Ze2)

222 What your betters are thinking about today:

@thinkprogress 7m
Here's why you should shop at Neiman Marcus instead of Macy's this holiday

Posted by: weft cut-loop, now in Dark Chunks! at November 14, 2014 01:28 PM (/lTUs)

223 On the tapes Gruber admits they took federal money from Medicaid to cover the overages in Romneycare

He also admits that they could not use such a dodge in obamacare.

Posted by: ThunderB at November 14, 2014 01:28 PM (zOTsN)

224 216 How long before Moochelle greases up and does a naked-butt photoshoot to distract the (still largely dormant) MFM from covering any more of Grubergate?
Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit, aka Beth at November 14, 2014 01:26 PM (4df7R)

I just threw up in my mouth a little.

Posted by: Insomniac at November 14, 2014 01:28 PM (DrWcr)

225 Actual question: why is the battery pack on the comet probe solar only (or mainly solar maybe)? I'm assuming due to weight constraints but I don't know that.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Now with extra taunting. at November 14, 2014 01:28 PM (mf5HN)

226 I'm personally astounded that they didn't attribute the lack of honesty in the bill to a YouTubeVideo. That one works everytime. Well if you're CBS.

Posted by: Super Creepy Rob Lowe at November 14, 2014 01:29 PM (oDCMR)

227
Moochelle greases up and does a naked-butttwerk to distract the (still largely dormant) MFM

FIFY

Posted by: wrg500 at November 14, 2014 01:29 PM (sWgE+)

228 We're going to need more statisticians and more computer programmers and more computer models.

Posted by: Marvin the Mechanical at November 14, 2014 01:29 PM (LARWW)

229

Wow, is the media scared of this one.

ABC, NBC Again Skip Gruber; CBS Allows a Scant 13 Seconds


still...

newsbusters.org

I heard a guy on CNN mocking those saying it was a "conspiracy" that it is not being covered across the MSM. I wouldn't call it a conspiracy, just a black out of protection.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at November 14, 2014 01:29 PM (IXrOn)

230 Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Now with extra taunting. at November 14, 2014 01:28 PM (mf5HN

I asked that too, considering the latest mars rover models all use inefficient nuclear reactors.

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) And father to be in 2 months! at November 14, 2014 01:29 PM (HDwDg)

231 How long before Moochelle greases up and does a naked-butt photoshoot to distract the (still largely dormant) MFM from covering any more of Grubergate?
Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit, aka Beth at November 14, 2014 01:26 PM


*blinks*

OK, all eight gloves are off for that one.

Posted by: Face -Sized Spider in MWR's Attic What is Frantically Reaching for the Brain Bleach at November 14, 2014 01:30 PM (knoK7)

232 I am so tired of schmart people with computer models predicting what's best for me. I guess free will was plowed under by computers.

Posted by: Super Creepy Rob Lowe at November 14, 2014 01:25 PM (oDCMR)



Just you wait.

Every model shows one thing: Kill the sick, it saves tons of money.
Euthanasia and Eugenics: Coming soon to the "land of the free"

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) And father to be in 2 months! at November 14, 2014 01:30 PM (HDwDg)

233 225 Actual question: why is the battery pack on the comet probe solar only (or mainly solar maybe)? I'm assuming due to weight constraints but I don't know that.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Now with extra taunting. at November 14, 2014 01:28 PM (mf5HN)



Because the Islamic scientists that played such a key role aren't allowed access to nuclear materials.

Posted by: BCochran1981 Esq. at November 14, 2014 01:30 PM (da5Wo)

234 just a black out of protection.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at November 14, 2014 01:29 PM (IXrOn)

Raciss.

Posted by: Bob's House of Flannel Shirts and Wallet Chains at November 14, 2014 01:30 PM (vgIRn)

235 I'm guessing it was Gruber's personal connections with people at CBO. Former colleagues and co-workers from MIT and other places his superstar academic career had taken him.

Looks like he might have had access to the CBO model back during RomneyCare.

Academic competition is fierce. If Gruber had somehow finagled access to the CBO model, that's a huge boon for his career.

Remember, he was a whiz kid. He won all the "Young Health Economist of the Year Award" "Top Economist Under 40", stuff like that.

Posted by: Costanza Defense at November 14, 2014 01:30 PM (ZPrif)

236 So. Second grade math? With wishes and unicorn farts?

Posted by: rickb223 at November 14, 2014 01:25 PM (AAJX/)

Yes, and I have ranted on this particular deception many times over the last 6 years. The CBO is banned from trying to accurately model anything; their numbers are completely useless.

Posted by: GnuBreed at November 14, 2014 01:30 PM (2ZblH)

237 216 How long before Moochelle greases up and does a naked-butt photoshoot to distract the (still largely dormant) MFM from covering any more of Grubergate?
Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit, aka Beth at November 14, 2014 01:26 PM (4df7R)


It's going to be hard for her to tuck her junk.

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at November 14, 2014 01:31 PM (zF6Iw)

238 >>>Jon Gruber was paid by the government to figure out how to fool the CBO into scoring various taxes as not being taxes.


What was CJ Roberts *spit* cut of the deal?

Posted by: dogfish at November 14, 2014 01:31 PM (1vYi0)

239 Oh well. Let's just take the same model, implemented by the same people, and scale it up to national size, and make the same claim about ER use going down. For sure it's gonna work this time round! Serious you guys.

Posted by: torquewrench at November 14, 2014 01:24 PM (noWW6)

********

Let's just forget that Ted Kennedy got about a $400 million subsidy from the Feds to make it work and doesn't have too many illegal aliens, etc.

Posted by: Your Friendly Danube River Guide at November 14, 2014 01:31 PM (RJMhd)

240 How long before Moochelle greases up and does a naked-butt photoshoot to distract the (still largely dormant) MFM from covering any more of Grubergate?

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit, aka Beth at November 14, 2014 01:26 PM (4df7R)


Certainly couldn't be any worse than KimK doing it.

They're about equal I would think.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at November 14, 2014 01:31 PM (6rKEC)

241 I'm surprised the Climate Research Unit at the University of East Anglia hasn't already hired Gruber to further tweak their models and datasets. Gruber probably laughs his ass off at Mikey Mann's relatively childish "everything's a hockey stick" model software.

Posted by: Count de Monet at November 14, 2014 01:31 PM (JO9+V)

242 why is the battery pack on the comet probe solar only (or mainly solar maybe)?


'Solar' and 'Probe' don't seem to go well together.

Posted by: garrett at November 14, 2014 01:31 PM (wkr1o)

243 Holy shit - a new Gruber video: http://tinyurl.com/ngj5zva. He really steps in it this time.

Posted by: Gristle Encased Head at November 14, 2014 01:32 PM (+lsX1)

244 >>On the tapes Gruber admits they took federal money from Medicaid to cover the overages in Romneycare

That was never a secret. Everybody always knew that MA was using fed money. Gruber made it sound devious but it was always part of the plan.

>>He also admits that they could not use such a dodge in obamacare.

Sure they did. Don't you remember Romney and Ryan talking during the 2012 about the feds taking billions from Medicare to pay for Obamacare? That's exactly what they were talking about.

Posted by: JackStraw at November 14, 2014 01:32 PM (g1DWB)

245 232 I am so tired of schmart people with computer models predicting what's best for me. I guess free will was plowed under by computers.

Posted by: Super Creepy Rob Lowe at November 14, 2014 01:25 PM (oDCMR)


Just you wait.

Every model shows one thing: Kill the sick, it saves tons of money.
Euthanasia and Eugenics: Coming soon to the "land of the free"
---------------------
All true, but if we kill all the Dems then we would have a nice country again. Choices.

Posted by: Super Creepy Rob Lowe at November 14, 2014 01:32 PM (oDCMR)

246 Wow, is the media scared of this one.

I beg to differ. They're not "scared." They're praticing damage control.

If they don't cover it, it remains a reich-wing fever-swamp story.

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at November 14, 2014 01:32 PM (zF6Iw)

247 Actual question: why is the battery pack on the comet probe solar only (or mainly solar maybe)? I'm assuming due to weight constraints but I don't know that.


Because it's....



....smaller.




*trapdoors*

Posted by: EC at November 14, 2014 01:32 PM (GQ8sn)

248 Certainly couldn't be any worse than KimK doing it.

They're about equal I would think.
Posted by: Sean Bannion at November 14, 2014 01:31 PM (6rKEC)
**********
We would all like KK better because we're all RAYYYYYCISSSS

Posted by: Truck Monkey, Aiming His Torpedo at November 14, 2014 01:32 PM (32Ze2)

249 They're about equal I would think.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at November 14, 2014 01:31 PM (6rKEC)



*cuntpunts you*

Posted by: BCochran1981 Esq. at November 14, 2014 01:32 PM (da5Wo)

250 So. Second grade math? With wishes and unicorn farts?

Yeah, that describes a good chunk of the modern economics profession these days.

Posted by: AmishDude at November 14, 2014 01:32 PM (b4b5c)

251 So basically we're looking at a system-wide conspiracy to deceive.


I disagree. We've all known for a long time that Obammycare was specifically crafted to fool the CBO. We (meaning those of us on the right and anyone who was paying attention) were calling it what it was from day one - a heap of steaming lies. We also knew that every single talking point Obammy Co. trotted out about Obammycare was untrue; lies designed to trick the LoFos and the incurious into supporting a monolithic piece of socialist legislation.


What we're seeing NOW isn't the revelation of a conspiracy; after all, none of this is surprising to any of us because it was obvious from the start. What we're seeing NOW is the conspirators finally being called on the carpet because they forgot how to keep their mouths shut, and now even the LoFos and incurious are beginning to say, "What the actual fuck?"

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit & Vaginassassin, aka Beth at November 14, 2014 01:32 PM (4df7R)

252 "Remember, he was a whiz kid. He won all the 'Young Health Economist of
the Year Award' 'Top Economist Under 40', stuff like that."

As did Paul Krugman.

Posted by: torquewrench at November 14, 2014 01:32 PM (noWW6)

253 How long before Moochelle greases up and does a naked-butt photoshoot to distract the (still largely dormant) MFM from covering any more of Grubergate?


The Bush Meat 2015 Calendar will be out soon.

Posted by: MIchele Obama's Landing Strip at November 14, 2014 01:32 PM (wkr1o)

254 I asked that too, considering the latest mars rover models all use inefficient nuclear reactors.
Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) And father to be in 2 months! at November 14, 2014 01:29 PM (HDwDg)



Doesn't V'GER have some kind of nuke power too?

Look, these are people who landed a rocket on a freaking comet. I am pretty confident they know what they are doing and presume there's a very good reason why and my complete WAG is weight.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Now with extra taunting. at November 14, 2014 01:33 PM (mf5HN)

255 *stares and stares*



I just called you a really filthy name.

Posted by: BCochran1981 Esq. at November 14, 2014 01:27 PM (da5Wo)


*innocence* Whatever do you mean?

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Assault Hobbit & Vaginassassin, aka Beth at November 14, 2014 01:33 PM (4df7R)

256 Posted by: Costanza Defense at November 14, 2014 01:30 PM (ZPrif


Really?
My knowledge of Econ mostly comes as a hobby, and my predictions were still far more on point than his.

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) And father to be in 2 months! at November 14, 2014 01:33 PM (HDwDg)

257 Posted by: Costanza Defense at November 14, 2014 01:30 PM (ZPrif


Really?
My knowledge of Econ mostly comes as a hobby, and my predictions were still far more on point than his.

Posted by: tsrblke, PhD(c) And father to be in 2 months! at November 14, 2014 01:33 PM (HDwDg)

258 The best thing about the Left's reaction to the Gruber story is that they think conservatives are just mad because sooper smaaht MIT professor called them dumb. Totally lacking in self-awareness.

Posted by: mugiwara at November 14, 2014 01:33 PM (5Ixsg)

259 Sure they did. Don't you remember Romney and Ryan talking during the 2012 about the feds taking billions from Medicare to pay for Obamacare? That's exactly what they were talking about.

Posted by: JackStraw at November 14, 2014 01:32 PM (g1DWB)



Was that the Medicare Advantage theft?

Posted by: EC at November 14, 2014 01:33 PM (GQ8sn)

260 Does CBO share the details of their models with any academic or govt researcher who asks?

As others have pointed out. These models are no doubt tiny files that anyone who works there could email to a friend or take for themselves.

CBO no doubt has a revolving door of academics -- most of whom make big $ on consulting gigs and those CBO models could seriously improve their income -- like it did for Gruber.

Posted by: Costanza Defense at November 14, 2014 01:33 PM (ZPrif)

261 Moochelle greases up and does a naked-butttwerk to distract the (still largely dormant) MFM

Brain bleach, stat!

Posted by: Dept. of Ed. SWAT at November 14, 2014 01:34 PM (/Ho8c)

262 Was that the Medicare Advantage theft?
Posted by: EC at November 14, 2014 01:33 PM (GQ8sn)

Yep. $500 billion worth.

Posted by: Insomniac at November 14, 2014 01:34 PM (DrWcr)

263
First, CBO has always been constrained to do its "analysis" based on parameters set by legislation. The "gaming" is built in, not really a matter of who's running CBO, much more that it is NOT a truly independent analytical body (some states, I believe, actually do have these, and they can be useful).

Second, Megan, try learning some economics. There is no need for a "structure" for a "national health care policy", unless you want to be stupid like the Soviet Union or North Korea.

Medical care is a private good. Private goods/services markets do 99% of their own organizing. They don't need "help". Megan the smart phone you use owes precisely nothing to "national policies", of any sort, apart from LETTING PRIVATE GOODS AND SERVICES BE PRODUCED AND PRICED RATIONALLY AND FREELY. Duh.

I'll give you a "national health care policy", Megan. Allow an actual insurance market to thrive in the health care area. Allow prices and consumers to be in the same room. Remove all the distortions and subsidies and cost-shifting and idiocy. (note: all these "actions" consist of getting out of the way).

Result (no "CBO scoring" required, thanks anyway): prices for most goods and services will plummet more than they did in every other deregulated market (nat. gas, airlines, telecoms). This - ALONE - will provide the basis for every idiotic "safety net" subsidy your small little mind can comfort itself with, from life-time subsidy to diabetics and others with chronic uninsurable conditions to .... well, you name it. And the economic efficiency delivered by this removal of disastrous distortions will provide a boost equivalent to digitization of the economy, widespread introduction of petroleum products, or electricity.

Any questions?

Posted by: rhomboid at November 14, 2014 01:35 PM (afQnV)

264 Mr. Gruber, after careful consideration it has come to my conclusion that your new healthcare system sucks.

Posted by: EC at November 14, 2014 01:35 PM (GQ8sn)

265
These Donks work it this way,
Tails you loose , Heads I win !!!!!
Imagine the classes that took?

Posted by: Popeye at November 14, 2014 01:35 PM (/WmRg)

266 And he's speaking about Obamacare, the only "accomplishment" of the Obama administration. His eternal legacy. The culmination of the Leftist project in America. And it's a disaster built on lies.
Posted by: AmishDude at November 14, 2014 12:57 PM (b4b5c)

As someone else said earlier, the LIV, the Free Shit Army, and the liberals don't care about this. They are laughing about how outraged the "right" is about this, because the truth is, they also all knew it. They personally are fine with WHATEVER it takes to get what they want. Lying, stealing, it doesn't matter. Most of them live this way in their personal lives, because to be a liberal, you have to be able to equivocate every want and need with every action. One has only to look at the lies being perpetrated about the Michael Brown shooting, and the demand that the officer be indicted regardless of the evidence. Because to the libs, an innocent officer going to jail is just a little bit of justice for the years of historical injustice they feel has happened. Someone is accused of beating their girlfriend, hey , immediately suspend him from his job, because, well, if he didn't do it, it will make up for all those guys who don't get charged.

Shut down coal plants, well, even if global warming isn't real, maybe fewer kids in WV will suffer from asthma. And so what, wealthy people will pay more for electric, as they should since they use more.

It's the seriousness of the charge, not the actual realilty or outcome that is a priority for these people.(quote from Rush Limbaugh)

Posted by: Jen at November 14, 2014 01:36 PM (hjTr7)

267 *cuntpunts you* Posted by: BCochran1981 Esq. at November 14, 2014 01:32 PM (da5Wo)

Little known fact about KimK's photoshoot:

When she pulled down her dress a back-up alarm started sounding.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at November 14, 2014 01:36 PM (6rKEC)

268
Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Now with extra taunting. at November 14, 2014 01:33 PM (mf5HN)

The scientist had size constrants on the lander. You know about size constrants right?


Posted by: wrg500 at November 14, 2014 01:36 PM (sWgE+)

269 My understanding is that for top academic economists, they make far more money consulting than they make from their academic salary.

Milton Friedman used to joke about that. How he was losing money when he did academic work.

Posted by: Costanza Defense at November 14, 2014 01:36 PM (ZPrif)

270 Gruber's contract was a sole-source solicitation. Only he could bid it.

Nice work if you can get it.

Posted by: toby928(C) at November 14, 2014 01:36 PM (rwI+c)

271 Little known fact about KimK's photoshoot:

When she pulled down her dress a back-up alarm started sounding.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at November 14, 2014 01:36 PM (6rKEC)



Did you see?


There are pics of her frontside out from the same photoshoot.


Posted by: EC at November 14, 2014 01:36 PM (GQ8sn)

272 Little known fact about KimK's photoshoot:

When she pulled down her dress a back-up alarm started sounding.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at November 14, 2014 01:36 PM (6rKEC)



Hahahahaha. Ok, that's funny.

Posted by: BCochran1981 Esq. at November 14, 2014 01:37 PM (da5Wo)

273 Short Description of Gruber Microsimulation Model
http://tinyurl.com/mw66czq


A computer model you say? Like the one used to forecast global warming?

Posted by: Marvin the Mechanical at November 14, 2014 01:37 PM (LARWW)

274 OT
If our beloved mistress AtC or AnnaPuma are around, PyramidCollection has some sweet Lady Corsair stompy boots in the costume section

Posted by: ginaswo at November 14, 2014 01:38 PM (+X1qa)

275 Those illegals giving me the binary salute on DRUDGE reminds me of when George W Bush gave me the same in 2007.

My rage scale is almost at max.

IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIiiii


Posted by: Thin veneer of civility at November 14, 2014 01:38 PM (XzRw1)

276 The scientist had size constrants on the lander. You know about size constrants right?


Posted by: wrg500 at November 14, 2014 01:36 PM (sWgE+)



*throatpunch*

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Now with extra taunting. at November 14, 2014 01:38 PM (mf5HN)

277 How is shit this not treason?

Posted by: Free at November 14, 2014 01:39 PM (CRwBx)

278 I am so tired of schmart people with computer models predicting what's best for me. I guess free will was plowed under by computers.

But they aren't smart. They're stupid. Their models never have enough variables or enough predictive knowledge. Models are based on models and based on models. Any attempt to tie them to real data is lost.

As someone articulated above, Gruber didn't have to predict reality, he just had to predict CBO.

Every model shows one thing: Kill the sick, it saves tons of money.
Euthanasia and Eugenics: Coming soon to the "land of the free"


Euthanasia and Eugenics is science. It is. It's that science that people so f*cking love.

Scientists used to have a very bad reputation for just this reason. Since racism is the Sin of the Day in the Leftist Church, nobody talks about Eugenics...very much...out loud, but Euthanasia is getting a lot more popular.

And the right to die soon becomes the obligation to die soon becomes the duty to die soon becomes a requirement.

Posted by: AmishDude at November 14, 2014 01:39 PM (b4b5c)

279 *this shit

Posted by: Free at November 14, 2014 01:39 PM (CRwBx)

280 So the lander didn't come with an extension cord? Typical Euros.

Posted by: Super Creepy Rob Lowe at November 14, 2014 01:39 PM (oDCMR)

281 270 Gruber's contract was a sole-source solicitation. Only he could bid it.

Nice work if you can get it.
Posted by: toby928(C) at November 14, 2014 01:36 PM (rwI+c)


*******

Holy merde.

I missed that.

WaPo article also said he made about $2 million from other healthcare laws.

Posted by: Your Friendly Danube River Guide at November 14, 2014 01:39 PM (RJMhd)

282 254 >> Look, these are people who landed a rocket on a freaking comet. I am
pretty confident they know what they are doing and presume there's a
very good reason why and my complete WAG is weight.

AtC, my guess is they couldn't get an allotment of Pu-238, of which every last gram is spoken for years in advance. No one makes it any more, and no other isotope works nearly as well as a power source.

Posted by: GnuBreed at November 14, 2014 01:40 PM (2ZblH)

283 I'm surprised ValJar and Holder haven't called on Ferguson to release the decision to get this off the front page.



But oh yeah, it's really not on the front page. Maybe they're waiting until the FMSM has to cover it.

Posted by: RWC - he who likes guns and boobehs and has a goatee at November 14, 2014 01:40 PM (fWAjv)

284
Costanza, CBO's models and assumptions are not secrets or exotica of any sort. The assumptions are set by legislation (i.e., as realistic or unrealistic as the legislation is). This is regarding fiscal matters, revenue/spending impacts, etc. They also do pure policy analysis with limited $$$$ details (military questions, etc.).

Single data point illustrating the farce of US electoral politics: the Dem Party has in some senses almost survived primarily thanks to its use of Mediscare for going on 30 years now. In that period, of course, no one in either party did anything other than ADD to the Medicare jalopy that is headed for the ditch. And then ..... in the biggest move ever made in the entire area, the Dems stole $500 billion from the program.

There is no reason to expect rational or non-suicidal results from an electorate and a system that can see that sort of insanity.

Posted by: rhomboid at November 14, 2014 01:40 PM (afQnV)

285 Hey I bought some new vinyl on amazon and they thoughtfully downloaded digital copy to my account free

Ohhhh I like that

Posted by: ginaswo at November 14, 2014 01:40 PM (+X1qa)

286 280So the lander didn't come with an extension cord? Typical Euros.Posted by: Super Creepy Rob Lowe at November 14, 2014 01:39 PM (oDCMR)They brought the wrong plug.

Posted by: wrg500 at November 14, 2014 01:41 PM (sWgE+)

287 Yeah, I'll double down on that bet...............

Posted by: Misanthropic Humanitarian at November 14, 2014 01:41 PM (l1zOH)

288 >>Was that the Medicare Advantage theft?

I believe so.

I think the big CBO trick had a lot to do with just this. If you remember, Romney was claiming that Obama was taking $700 billion from Medicare to pay for Obamacare. There wasn't that much debate about that, it was right in the plan.

What Romney said was that there was some creative accounting going on at CBO because the feds were using the $700 billion twice but only counting it once. All of the left, including the "fact checkers" said Romney was wrong.

He was right.

Posted by: JackStraw at November 14, 2014 01:41 PM (g1DWB)

289
What a cluster this is.

Of course, everything they were trying to 'hide' was obvious to people who knew anything about economics, math, human behavior, etc from day one. And yet, we're supposed to be the dumb ones? The American People he is talking about in his video were not the tea party.

Posted by: Lea at November 14, 2014 01:42 PM (lIU4e)

290 Motherf'r shoulda just kept his mouth shut about the deception.

Posted by: Michael Mann at November 14, 2014 01:42 PM (ABcz/)

291 If they aren't secret, can you point me to a file on the internet where I can download a CBO model?

The spreadsheet or Matlab file or other statistical modeling file would be fine.

Posted by: Costanza Defense at November 14, 2014 01:43 PM (ZPrif)

292 My rare Peruvian parrots, 8 of which I proudly own, deserve only the finest Andean organic millet. One pound costs the equivalent of 6 months' wages of cretin, low life septic tank pumpers like you.

Posted by: Jon McGruber, Esq. at November 14, 2014 01:43 PM (365cV)

293 How is shit this not treason?

Because Gruber still lives.

And will continue to live.

To a ripe old age.

Warm, rich and protected.

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at November 14, 2014 01:43 PM (zF6Iw)

294 Where is the public list of parameters CBO's model use?

Posted by: Costanza Defense at November 14, 2014 01:43 PM (ZPrif)

295 In the final analysis Gruber is right - Americans are severely stupid. All you have to do to prove the assertion true is look and listen to Obama. We are doomed.

Posted by: Super Creepy Rob Lowe at November 14, 2014 01:44 PM (oDCMR)

296 "Dr. Gruber developed a proprietary statistically sophisticated micro-simulation model that has the flexibility to ascertain the distribution of changes in health care spending and public and private sector health care costs due to a large variety of changes in health insurance benefit design, public program eligibility criteria, and tax policy."

GIGO

Posted by: I Loathe Silence Sensually (ASAP spayeds dissuasion disk) at November 14, 2014 01:44 PM (xkSSa)

297 >>How is shit this not treason?


Fraud

Posted by: Michael Mann at November 14, 2014 01:44 PM (ABcz/)

298 What Romney said was that there was some creative accounting going on at CBO because the feds were using the $700 billion twice but only counting it once. All of the left, including the "fact checkers" said Romney was wrong.



Ah yes....I remember that, but I think it was Ryan who said it. It was the meeting where Ryan was schooling TFG like a bitch with math and facts. The meeting where TFG was sitting there with his head in his hands wishing he was somewhere, anywhere, else but there.


Ryan pwned him.

Posted by: EC at November 14, 2014 01:44 PM (GQ8sn)

299 AtC, my guess is they couldn't get an allotment of Pu-238, of which every last gram is spoken for years in advance. No one makes it any more, and no other isotope works nearly as well as a power source.
Posted by: GnuBreed at November 14, 2014 01:40 PM (2ZblH)



Huh, I didn't think of that. I assumed that if anyone was going to get an illudium Q-36 space modulator, it would be the people who were going to land a rocket on a comet.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Now with extra taunting. at November 14, 2014 01:45 PM (mf5HN)

300 >>"Dr. Gruber developed a proprietary statistically sophisticated
micro-simulation model that has the flexibility to ascertain the
distribution of changes in health care spending and public and private
sector health care costs due to a large variety of changes in health
insurance benefit design, public program eligibility criteria, and tax
policy."


So, like my "hockey stick"?

Posted by: Michael Mann at November 14, 2014 01:45 PM (ABcz/)

301 Dr. Gruber developed a proprietary statistically sophisticated micro-simulation model that has the flexibility to ascertain the distribution of changes in health care spending and public and private sector health care costs due to a large variety of changes in health insurance benefit design, public program eligibility criteria, and tax policy

--
Proprietary. As in secret.

Posted by: Costanza Defense at November 14, 2014 01:46 PM (ZPrif)

302 Jon Gruber's next gig?

Explaining why a Nuclear-Armed Iran is a good thing.


Posted by: Grampa Jimbo at November 14, 2014 01:46 PM (V70Uh)

303 His opinions and intentions which were deceiving to the American public are not what the Democratic Party's intentions were.

You h8rs!!!

Posted by: RWC - he who likes guns and boobehs and has a goatee at November 14, 2014 01:46 PM (fWAjv)

304 I believe that "Hans" is the German version of "John".


Just saying.

Posted by: Ano Odioso at November 14, 2014 01:46 PM (PD6iL)

305 Ah yes....I remember that, but I think it was Ryan
who said it. It was the meeting where Ryan was schooling TFG like a
bitch with math and facts. The meeting where TFG was sitting there with
his head in his hands wishing he was somewhere, anywhere, else but
there.





Ryan pwned him.





Posted by: EC at November 14, 2014 01:44 PM (GQ8sn)

Yes, the meeting where he was "thinking" with his middle finger to forehead. ClASSy.

Posted by: ChristyBlinky at November 14, 2014 01:46 PM (dMEBN)

306 Huh, I didn't think of that. I assumed that if anyone was going to get an illudium Q-36 space modulator, it would be the people who were going to land a rocket on a comet.
Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Now with extra taunting. at November 14, 2014 01:45 PM (mf5HN)


I was expecting an earth-shattering kaboom!

Posted by: Marvin the Martian at November 14, 2014 01:47 PM (6rKEC)

307 Senior White vote moved right after the Dems raided Medicare advantage for a half trillion

Dems who survived thus far refuse to see reason and moderate
Instead they're going All In to replace their previous % of WWC with bigger slice of MOAR Hispanics

They will create a backlash, cost these folks their chance at permanent status and hand Presidency to GOP in '16 if HRC can't separate herself from SCOAMF and restore the Reagan Dem votes she swept in coal country in Dem primaries

Posted by: ginaswo at November 14, 2014 01:47 PM (+X1qa)

308
Dr. Jon Gruber, this bird's for you.

Posted by: MWTexas at November 14, 2014 01:47 PM (N05oL)

309 Isn't it, 'Lick my Hockeystick? It came from Penn State didn't it?

Posted by: Super Creepy Rob Lowe at November 14, 2014 01:47 PM (oDCMR)

310
Costanza, nope, cannot help you there. Go to CBO. Their models are not the issue, per se. Their general parameters are set by legislation under review. Their assumptions, as I recall, are accessible. They usually run high/middle/low numbers to give some wiggle room on assumptions (again, from memory).

There probably is an issue with "dynamic scoring" - that is, excluding probably or known impacts (such as behavior changing due to tax increases, resulting in a lesser revenue increase than a non-dynamic model will show).

The onlyanalysis I'd like to see from CBO would be one estimating the transformational improvements in health care and health care finance if markets were no longer suppressed and distorted in these areas. That is, were allowed to emerge and function normally. Of course this is a matter of state-level vandalism as well (min-cartel effects on the state level thanks to pernicious regulation/interference).

Posted by: rhomboid at November 14, 2014 01:47 PM (afQnV)

311 Ah yes....I remember that, but I think it was Ryan who said it. It was the meeting where Ryan was schooling TFG like a bitch with math and facts. The meeting where TFG was sitting there with his head in his hands wishing he was somewhere, anywhere, else but there.


To me, that was Ryan's Pickett's Charge moment. Glorious spectacle, a highpoint. Followed by disaster and ruin.

Posted by: Count de Monet at November 14, 2014 01:47 PM (JO9+V)

312

I believe that "Hans" is the German version of "John".


Just saying.

Posted by: Ano Odioso at November 14, 2014 01:46 PM (PD6iL)




It's Bill.


Bill Clay.

Posted by: EC at November 14, 2014 01:47 PM (GQ8sn)

313 >>Ah yes....I remember that, but I think it was Ryan who said it. It was the meeting where Ryan was schooling TFG like a bitch with math and facts. The meeting where TFG was sitting there with his head in his hands wishing he was somewhere, anywhere, else but there.

They both did. It was central to their campaign.

If you google some of Romney Obama taking money medicare for obamacare you will get over 500,000 results.

The left and the moms (but I repeat myself) savaged him for this "lie" and often used experts like Gruber and the CBO itself to prove that Romney was wrong.

The msm isn't covering for Obama on this. They have been in on it from the jump.

Posted by: JackStraw at November 14, 2014 01:48 PM (g1DWB)

314 Ugh - NASA scientist offers tearful apology for girlie shirt.
Guss he's not a Moron after all...

Posted by: Lizzy at November 14, 2014 01:48 PM (ABcz/)

315 Just out of curiosity, has Gruber Microsimulation Model predicted where we are with this monstrosity. Of course no, an it looks like things will be deviating even further from his rosy predictions in the next year. So not only is Gruber a lying SOB, his software is garbage. The govt. should be suing him on that alone.

Posted by: George Orwell at November 14, 2014 01:48 PM (1BQGO)

316
Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Now with extra taunting. at November 14, 2014 01:45 PM (mf5HN)

But you would need a flux

capacitor to work with an illudium Q-36 space modulator and they just don't grow on trees.

Posted by: wrg500 at November 14, 2014 01:49 PM (sWgE+)

317 I'm guessing it was Gruber's personal connections with people at CBO. Former colleagues and co-workers from MIT and other places his superstar academic career had taken him.

It really puts the Obama era and the Obama model of life in stark relief.

The way he thinks the world works but in fact, this is the way his world works. It's about getting into elite clubs and making contacts.

Jon Gruber's entire career wasn't spent trying to predict real-world outcomes. It was spent trying to predict the outcomes from a government agency.

Posted by: AmishDude at November 14, 2014 01:49 PM (b4b5c)

318 Scientists used to have a very bad reputation for just this reason. Since racism is the Sin of the Day in the Leftist Church, nobody talks about Eugenics...very much...out loud, but Euthanasia is getting a lot more popular.

And the right to die soon becomes the obligation to die soon becomes the duty to die soon becomes a requirement.



The left may want to tred VERY carefully over this.
It's not a far step to include useless eaters, of any age, (i.e., takers), in that equation.

Posted by: rickb223 at November 14, 2014 01:49 PM (AAJX/)

319 Geez...typos galore.

Maybe I should stop working when commenting.

Posted by: JackStraw at November 14, 2014 01:49 PM (g1DWB)

320 319 Geez...typos galore.

Maybe I should stop working when commenting.

Posted by: JackStraw at November 14, 2014 01:49 PM (g1DWB)



NoyoujustneedmoreCocaineColatoupyourproductivity

Posted by: BCochran1981 Esq. at November 14, 2014 01:50 PM (da5Wo)

321 Jon Gruber's entire career wasn't spent trying to predict real-world outcomes. It was spent trying to predict the outcomes from a government agency.

Jon Gruber's 'Kobayashi Maru.'

Posted by: --- at November 14, 2014 01:50 PM (MMC8r)

322 It might be time for the TEA Party to go all ISIS on Dems. Its the only reasonable answer for a sustainable future. We can call it Crunchy Genocide and the press will give us a pass - cuz Crunchy.

Posted by: Super Creepy Rob Lowe at November 14, 2014 01:50 PM (oDCMR)

323 You dummies are just angry because an MIT professor schooled you. You just don't get it because you don't science.

Posted by: LIV at November 14, 2014 01:50 PM (5Ixsg)

324 Nice work if you can get it...

I can lie to the CBO on military readiness not costing anything....

Posted by: Sven S Blade a.k.a. El Assassin@sven10077 at November 14, 2014 01:51 PM (/4AZU)

325 Jon Gruber's entire career wasn't spent trying to predict real-world outcomes. It was spent trying to predict the outcomes from a government agency.

Jon Gruber's 'Kobayashi Maru.'

Posted by: --- at November 14, 2014 01:50 PM (MMC8r)



He reprogrammed the CBO Model to beat their scoring system?

Posted by: EC at November 14, 2014 01:51 PM (GQ8sn)

326 Their models never have enough variables or enough predictive knowledge.

You mean that a complex system like our planets, with varying solar output, varying lunar influences, varying planetary 'wobble', and varying cloud cover would all be variables in a computer model?

Forget it, too much work. I'll stick with one variable equations. They run faster on my TRS 80.

Posted by: Al the Goreth at November 14, 2014 01:52 PM (zxQ4h)

327 Everything lefties and the MFM say about Gruber is in an attempt to convince themselves that Gruber was referring "those other voters" and not themselves - the very people whose support was absolutely necessary - as idiots.

Yeah... that'll work.

Like Gruber said, "stupid."

Posted by: LoneStarHeeb at November 14, 2014 01:52 PM (BZAd3)

328 No, the CBO models take input from proposed laws -- changes in tax rates and subsidies -- but the CBO model then has it's own parameters that aren't received from Congress. As the Gruber model it has #s that estimate how individuals and firms will respond to the changes in govt policy. Those aren't #s you get from Congress -- what % will leave the workforce, what % of firms will increase hiring, etc, etc.

Those are the key, proprietary aspects of the Gruber and CBO models. They aren't set from Congress and they aren't public.

Posted by: Costanza Defense at November 14, 2014 01:53 PM (ZPrif)

329
Like Gruber said, "stupid."

Posted by: LoneStarHeeb at November 14, 2014 01:52 PM (BZAd3)

Too stupid to know they're too stupid.

I think it's pretty damn funny.

Posted by: RWC - he who likes guns and boobehs and has a goatee at November 14, 2014 01:54 PM (fWAjv)

330 Wa Po has a robust defense of Gruber. The headline scream that despite what Gruber said, Romneycare didn't secretly rip off medicaid.


At the end of the column they say it was no secret. That's their defense

Posted by: ThunderB at November 14, 2014 01:54 PM (zOTsN)

331 I'm not seeing any evidence that the key #s that make CBO's econometric models work are public.

Posted by: Costanza Defense at November 14, 2014 01:55 PM (ZPrif)

332 The left is not going to tread carefully on euthanasia. There's a full-scale media campaign to normalize it already.

Posted by: LadyS at November 14, 2014 01:56 PM (5dip8)

333 332 Posted by: LadyS at November 14, 2014 01:56 PM (5dip

as long as they are okay with *me* snipping the silver thread we're golden

Posted by: Sven S Blade a.k.a. El Assassin@sven10077 at November 14, 2014 01:56 PM (/4AZU)

334 Too stupid to know they're too stupid.
I think it's pretty damn funny.



It would be way funnier if they DID know.
That crushing moment when realization took hold.

Posted by: rickb223 at November 14, 2014 01:56 PM (AAJX/)

335 Ha! Someone from the fever swamps gets it...


Is that when I sit and think about it- his comments about having to be dishonest and count on the 'stupidity of the American voter' and 'the lack of economic understanding of the American voter' and 'the American people are too stupid to understand the difference'......

He is talking about US.

Posted by: RWC - he who likes guns and boobehs and has a goatee at November 14, 2014 01:57 PM (fWAjv)

336 Any guesses on whether von Gruber the shylark was advising Solyndra as well?

Posted by: Super Creepy Rob Lowe at November 14, 2014 01:57 PM (oDCMR)

337 The left is not going to tread carefully on euthanasia. There's a full-scale media campaign to normalize it already.

And they want to normalize pedophilia. Then you'll get fucked at the start and the end of your life.

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at November 14, 2014 01:57 PM (zF6Iw)

338 Hello, and welcome to tonight's Vice-Presidential debate between Wonder Boy and The Buffoon. Let's get started:

WB: I have facts and figures that prove...

TB: And I've got chunks of guys like you in my stool!

WB: *sobs*

Posted by: CSPAN at November 14, 2014 01:57 PM (Ks4nX)

339 337 Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at November 14, 2014 01:57 PM (zF6Iw)

or we tell them to get fucked and get a national divorce.

Posted by: Sven S Blade a.k.a. El Assassin@sven10077 at November 14, 2014 01:58 PM (/4AZU)

340 To simply say no to everything is unacceptable. But I
think the President also needs to do the right thing and work with
Congress.

The Republican's newly elected Senator from CO.

Yay!

Posted by: Thin veneer of civility at November 14, 2014 01:58 PM (XzRw1)

341
Gruber has a punchable face.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at November 14, 2014 01:59 PM (1nB6R)

342 Ha.

I just stumbled upon some very interesting articles from 2010. People like Jane Hamsher of Fire Dog Lake fame and Gleen Greenwald are ripping the WH for their complete deception regarding Gruber, pretending he was some independent analyst while he was under a $400K contract with the WH to help design Obamacare.

These are the hardest left of the left and they are appalled at the lies and deception.

Unreal.

Posted by: JackStraw at November 14, 2014 01:59 PM (g1DWB)

343 And they want to normalize pedophilia. Then you'll get fucked at the start and the end of your life.

Only if you've managed to gestate fully despite their best efforts.

Posted by: HR needs donuts at November 14, 2014 01:59 PM (ZKzrr)

344 or we tell them to get fucked and get a national divorce.

Posted by: Sven S Blade a.k.a. El Assassin@sven10077 at November 14, 2014 01:58 PM (/4AZU)


I think I'm more likely to see Nancy Pelosi in a wagon being trundled off to the guillotine than that happening, Sven.

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at November 14, 2014 01:59 PM (zF6Iw)

345 Sven, you know how it goes. See, Belgium.

Posted by: LadyS at November 14, 2014 02:00 PM (5dip8)

346 Enron-style accounting.

Posted by: --- at November 14, 2014 02:00 PM (MMC8r)

347 Rich Weinstein - Enemy of the state. that poor guy better watch his ass.

Posted by: The Jackhole at November 14, 2014 02:00 PM (6/J77)

348

One day married, next day free
Broken hearts for you and me
Takes no time, for you to get
A Mexican divorce

Posted by: The Drifters at November 14, 2014 02:00 PM (evdj2)

349 344 Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at November 14, 2014 01:59 PM (zF6Iw)

Likely so....

I plan to be a Halifax beach bum....

always room at the lobster bake

Posted by: Sven S Blade a.k.a. El Assassin@sven10077 at November 14, 2014 02:00 PM (/4AZU)

350 A cop on twitter just said they have been put on tactical alert and the GJ decision is coming.

Posted by: The Progs at November 14, 2014 02:01 PM (iQIUe)

351 The tearful apology, soon to be followed by a resignation "to end the distraction".

George Orwell had a time machine

Posted by: boulder terlit hobo at November 14, 2014 02:02 PM (FdlTq)

352 350 A cop on twitter just said they have been put on tactical alert and the GJ decision is coming.

Posted by: The Progs at November 14, 2014 02:01 PM (iQIUe)

Good work AG Holder

Love,

The MSM

Posted by: RWC - he who likes guns and boobehs and has a goatee at November 14, 2014 02:03 PM (fWAjv)

353 A cop on twitter just said they have been put on tactical alert and the GJ decision is coming.

At least the rioters won't miss any work tomorrow after a late night?

Posted by: HR needs donuts at November 14, 2014 02:04 PM (ZKzrr)

354 So great that Google is now doing law enforcement.

Engadget @engadget 3m
Google and conservationists are tracking boats to stop illegal fishing http://engt.co/1q06DCR

Posted by: Costanza Defense at November 14, 2014 02:04 PM (ZPrif)

355 Crime pays.

Posted by: eleven at November 14, 2014 02:04 PM (7kffg)

356 as long as they are okay with *me* snipping the silver thread we're golden
Posted by: Sven


Useless eaters, Train A.
FSA, Train B
Undocumented people, Train C

I really don't think the left wants to play that game.

Posted by: rickb223 at November 14, 2014 02:04 PM (AAJX/)

357 350
A cop on twitter just said they have been put on tactical alert and the GJ decision is coming.

Posted by: The Progs at November 14, 2014 02:01 PM (iQIUe)


Hope it comes after I get home. I don't think violence will solely restricted to Ferguson.

Posted by: Heralder at November 14, 2014 02:04 PM (/Mxso)

358 Jane Hamsher did excellent work in 2010.

Another antiZerocare author? Matt "vampire squid" Taibbi.

Posted by: boulder terlit hobo at November 14, 2014 02:04 PM (FdlTq)

359 A cop on twitter just said they have been put on tactical alert and the GJ decision is coming.
Posted by: The Progs at November 14, 2014 02:01 PM (iQIUe)


Lovely day for a riot and a looting.

I wonder if they've given any thought to where they'll be buying groceries/gas/clothes/medicine next week.

No?

Fuck 'em.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at November 14, 2014 02:04 PM (6rKEC)

360 Ferguson is just another squirrel to be tossed out in rough seas.

Posted by: Garrett at November 14, 2014 02:04 PM (NGo1b)

361 Too cold to riot.

Posted by: eleven at November 14, 2014 02:04 PM (7kffg)

362
A cop on twitter just said they have been put on tactical alert and the GJ decision is coming. <<<<<<<<

On a Friday? seems kind silly. although maybe no day is good. Maybe Sat. morn about 6 am seems better.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at November 14, 2014 02:05 PM (1nB6R)

363 STANFORD, Calif. - Mitt Romney's 2012 policy director, Lanhee Chen, works in Silicon Valley these days at a free-market think tank called the Hoover Institution on the Stanford University campus. ... Chen made an argument Thursday for Congress to pass such a package. "There's still a crying need for fundamental, permanent immigration reform," he said, "and Republicans would be wise to lead on that issue."

Like herpes and the Bushs, Mitt is the gift that keeps on giving.

Posted by: toby928(C) at November 14, 2014 02:05 PM (evdj2)

364 Someone put me some knowledge, as I'm a bit behind. The gateway punidt video from earlier (which no longer seems to be accessible from the Frontline website, though you could see when I checked earlier where it was supposed to be) demonstrates that obama knew the CBO instructions were a falsehood. Which means everyone involved knew.

If obabacare was only at last 'passed' through reconciliation, which can only be applied to budget cutting (or was it tax cutting?) bills, doesn't that ultimately mean obamacare was never passed by the Congress?

Posted by: Methos at November 14, 2014 02:05 PM (A6vWB)

365 DRUDGE REPORT @DRUDGE_REPORT 4m
Feds to Grant Refugee Status to Central American Migrant Children... http://drudge.tw/1v9SG7t

Posted by: Costanza Defense at November 14, 2014 02:06 PM (ZPrif)

366 I wonder if they've given any thought to where they'll be buying groceries/gas/clothes/medicine next week.



No?



Fuck 'em.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at November 14, 2014 02:04 PM (6rKEC)


They'll be buying it in the towns they were bussed in from, from the ill-gotten gains of said rioting/looting.

Posted by: Heralder at November 14, 2014 02:06 PM (/Mxso)

367 Put aside for a moment the fact that the guy's apparently a lie coder.

A country with over THREE HUNDRED MILLION people in it and they have to sole source a statistical modeler?

That idea is preposterous on its face.

Posted by: Raging Asshole at November 14, 2014 02:06 PM (xSCb6)

368 "There's still a crying need for fundamental, permanent immigration reform,"

Why? Why don't we try the laws we already have?

Posted by: --- at November 14, 2014 02:06 PM (MMC8r)

369 Ooops, off mad sphincter sock

Posted by: Burn the Witch at November 14, 2014 02:07 PM (xSCb6)

370 Tick tick tick tick tick tick.......

Time is running out.

Posted by: Soona at November 14, 2014 02:07 PM (0oHg9)

371 The same crying need for climate reform.

Posted by: eleven at November 14, 2014 02:08 PM (7kffg)

372 The "gentle giant" bullshit helped get half the Asian voting population to vote against Holder's party. Keep it up, Barky, and overtly anti-black racism will be fully mainstreamed. Some legacy you'll be leaving behind

Posted by: boulder terlit hobo at November 14, 2014 02:08 PM (FdlTq)

373 Lovely day for a riot and a looting.

Do I need to say it?

Posted by: Lt. Worf at November 14, 2014 02:08 PM (A6vWB)

374 Boom


Executive action has happened.


They aren't illegals they are refugees

Posted by: ThunderB at November 14, 2014 02:08 PM (zOTsN)

375 You can talk all you want about Amnesty and Executive Actions, but this deceit by Gruber, Fredo, and his merry band of commie hating bastrds is criminal in nature, a conspiracy- see the Rico Act- and Impeachable all on it's own.

Posted by: Nevergiveup at November 14, 2014 02:08 PM (nzKvP)

376 Romney wants to deport all the illegals and build a wall!

BUY MY BOOK!!!!!

Posted by: Ann Coulter, Conservative Icon at November 14, 2014 02:09 PM (Ks4nX)

377 It has been over a year since ObamaCare "burst" onto the scene and the fires and secondary explosions are continuing.

It is hard to top legislation - and entertainment - like this. Although being an apologist for it is a contender.

Posted by: Mikey NTH - We Blanked Out at the Outrage Outlet! at November 14, 2014 02:09 PM (hLRSq)

378 Perhaps you should get Pixy to develop some of this Micro-Simulation software because we sure aren't coming up with 400k$ no to do that in our mouth.

Posted by: DaveA at November 14, 2014 02:10 PM (DL2i+)

379 Holy shit!

Gruber didn't get $400k from the feds in 2009. He got $780,713!

>>Gruber received $780,713 in government contracts in 2009. In addition to the HHS contracts, he was hired by the Department of Justice, the NIH and the State Department for work this year. Krugman is right to say that the government awards these kinds of contracts to academics on a regular basis. But there is a fundamental difference between the HHS contract and the others.

http://tinyurl.com/o6gmx9d

DOJ? State? What the fuck!! What dept in the Obama administration hasn't been paying this ass?

Posted by: JackStraw at November 14, 2014 02:10 PM (g1DWB)

380 374 Boom

Executive action has happened.

They aren't illegals they are refugees
Posted by: ThunderB at November 14, 2014 02:08 PM (zOTsN)



Where?

Posted by: BCochran1981 Esq. at November 14, 2014 02:10 PM (da5Wo)

381 and Impeachable all on it's own.

Which would matter if there were any patriots in congress.

Posted by: Methos at November 14, 2014 02:10 PM (A6vWB)

382 Why? Why don't we try the laws we already have?

Posted by: --- at November 14, 2014 02:06 PM (MMC8r)


This is what I don't understand. I've been through the system, legally. It's a pain in the ass, but we have plenty of legal citizens and greencard holders. If the system doesn't work, how is it ... working?

I take it to mean it needs reform to immediately let anyone in from countries south of our border. As it is now, because of all the illegal immigration, it's harder for them to get resident status. That's not a problem with the system, it's a f**king feature.

Posted by: Heralder at November 14, 2014 02:11 PM (/Mxso)

383
They aren't illegals they are refugees


From what? Bad fiscal policy?

Posted by: --- at November 14, 2014 02:11 PM (MMC8r)

384 Put aside the bloated list of examples of government failure/incompetence/corruption under Obama alone.

This one example highlights all of that.

Accounting Fail
Federal Budgeting Fail
Conflict of Interest Fail
Allocation of Resources Fail
Fraud Prevention Fail
Ethics Fail
Legal Fail
Non-Partisan Fail

This incident is the fucking poster child for Government Fail.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at November 14, 2014 02:11 PM (xSCb6)

385 Drudge

Posted by: ThunderB at November 14, 2014 02:11 PM (zOTsN)

386 Topless feminists target Vatican...


Simulate anal sex with crucifix...

Posted by: The end is near at November 14, 2014 02:11 PM (XzRw1)

387
I don't think you get a second bite at the apple Methos.

And the lead drudge picture shows the fine character of the people who will be our newly minted citizens.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at November 14, 2014 02:11 PM (1nB6R)

388 They aren't illegals they are refugees



From what?

Posted by: rickb223 at November 14, 2014 02:12 PM (AAJX/)

389 375 You can talk all you want about Amnesty and Executive Actions, but this deceit by Gruber, Fredo, and his merry band of commie hating bastrds is criminal in nature, a conspiracy- see the Rico Act- and Impeachable all on it's own.
--------------------------
So is weaponizing the IRS to take out your competition, but do you see anyone being arrested and charged? We're not in Kansas anymore.

Posted by: Super Creepy Rob Lowe at November 14, 2014 02:12 PM (oDCMR)

390 So wait, this man was paid $400,000 to lie about Obamacare so that it would pass and cripple our economy? Poor Obama, his hallmark legislation is in flames because of the Republicans!

If those rat bastards hadn't sabotaged the writing of Obamacare, I'm sure it would have been a great bill. The Democrats would have never agreed to such a terrible law if they knew the Republicans lied about what was in it. Granted, Pelosi did want to pass it first before finding out what was in it, and not a single Republican in the Senate voted for it, but that only proves they knew how terrible it was and did nothing to stop it!

Posted by: Stupid, Uninformed Voter at November 14, 2014 02:12 PM (lJJaE)

391 The U.S. Navy has deployed on a command ship in the Persian Gulf its first laser weapon capable of destroying a target.

The amphibious transport ship USS Ponce has been patrolling with a prototype 30-kilowatt-class Laser Weapon System since late August, according to officials. The laser is mounted facing the bow, and can be fired in several modes -- from a dazzling warning flash to a destructive beam -- and can set a drone or small boat on fire.

Drudge

Posted by: Nevergiveup at November 14, 2014 02:12 PM (nzKvP)

392 "So you paid Dr. Gruber $400,000 for his expertise in tutoring the government to serve more effective false propaganda to you."

It didn't work with me; nor did it work with Republicans and conservatives in general. The only ones who were taken in and duped were Democrats and Progressives.

"Progressives are gullible and easily led astray." - Something Dr. Gruber didn't say but really meant to say.

Posted by: Mikey NTH - We Blanked Out at the Outrage Outlet! at November 14, 2014 02:13 PM (hLRSq)

393 Systems Gamed - Will Travel

Posted by: Jonathan Gruber at November 14, 2014 02:14 PM (MMC8r)

394 The laser is mounted facing the bow, and can be
fired in several modes -- from a dazzling warning flash to a destructive
beam -- and can set a drone or small boat on fire.



Drudge

Posted by: Nevergiveup at November 14, 2014 02:12 PM (nzKvP)


I want one mounted on my shoulder.

Posted by: Heralder at November 14, 2014 02:14 PM (/Mxso)

395
and can set a drone or small boat on fire.


When it can set a large Jihad on fire I'll get the hot dogs.

Posted by: wrg500 at November 14, 2014 02:14 PM (sWgE+)

396 USS Ponce

Faaabulous!

Posted by: --- at November 14, 2014 02:14 PM (MMC8r)

397 Hagel to order nuke force overhaul to fix failures

And by "overhaul" he means reduce it to ineffectual levels and destroy it

Posted by: Nevergiveup at November 14, 2014 02:15 PM (nzKvP)

398 My Kind are nothing but massive drug users.

It's why I always put my stash in the top cabinet.

Posted by: DaveA McShinGuards at November 14, 2014 02:15 PM (DL2i+)

399 The amphibious transport ship USS Ponce has been patrolling with a prototype 30-kilowatt-class Laser Weapon System since late August, according to officials. The laser is mounted facing the bow, and can be fired in several modes -- from a dazzling warning flash to a destructive beam -- and can set a drone or small boat on fire.

Drudge

Posted by: Nevergiveup at November 14, 2014 02:12 PM (nzKvP)

Can we test it out on those Turkish assholes.

Posted by: RWC - he who likes guns and boobehs and has a goatee at November 14, 2014 02:15 PM (fWAjv)

400 Where do I get my drone burner?

Posted by: eleven at November 14, 2014 02:15 PM (7kffg)

401 The U.S. Navy has deployed on a command ship in the Persian Gulf its first laser weapon capable of destroying a target.

Send it up the Potomac.

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at November 14, 2014 02:15 PM (zF6Iw)

402 396 USS Ponce

Faaabulous!
Posted by: --- at November 14, 2014 02:14 PM (MMC8r)

Don't let the pantalones fool you, I will cut a bitch.

Posted by: Ponce de Leon at November 14, 2014 02:15 PM (DrWcr)

403 >>So you paid Dr. Gruber $400,000 for his expertise in tutoring the government to serve more effective false propaganda to you.

$780,000 not $400,000. In one year.

Posted by: JackStraw at November 14, 2014 02:16 PM (g1DWB)

404 They aren't illegals they are refugees




_______________


From what?

_____________

from the killing being done with the fast and furious weapons.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at November 14, 2014 02:17 PM (1nB6R)

405 404 Ziiinnnng.

Posted by: Infidel at November 14, 2014 02:17 PM (cojT9)

406 Posted by: Heralder at November 14, 2014 02:11 PM (/Mxso)

We allow in 1 Million LEGAL immigrants per year.

Over 32 years, a modern generation, that is 32 million foreign born citizens.

That is 10% of the entire US population...

Now, add in illegals... which the Government admits is at least 15 million... (but I estimate is twice that)...

And you suddenly have 15% to 20% of the entire US Population, having been born in a foreign country... ie... 1 in 5, or about 1 in 7.

NO Society can assimilate that amount of foreign born...

And the Repubs, due to their money coming from business... wants to INCREASE legal immigration.

Posted by: Romeo13 at November 14, 2014 02:18 PM (f0pWu)

407 The blog Conservative Treehouse has a really comprehensive study of this fiasco. Link in nic.

Posted by: Chilling the most at November 14, 2014 02:19 PM (wWs6x)

408 329


Like Gruber said, "stupid."



Posted by: LoneStarHeeb at November 14, 2014 01:52 PM (BZAd3)



Too stupid to know they're too stupid.



I think it's pretty damn funny.

Posted by: RWC - he who likes guns and boobehs and has a goatee at November 14, 2014 01:54 PM (fWAjv)

And what is funny, the supposedly stupid people that were supposedly tricked by the ACA shenanigans, including Gruber's deceit, they have been against it, consistently, since before it was passed.
http://preview.tinyurl.com/ygbsdm7

Posted by: flounder at November 14, 2014 02:19 PM (sDapq)

409 Posted by: Super Creepy Rob Lowe at November 14, 2014 02:12 PM (oDCMR)

If the entire party is implicated, it becomes harder to peg as a racism issue, and thus, not as big a threat of being a political loser.

Posted by: Slightly less stupid, but much more informed Voter at November 14, 2014 02:20 PM (lJJaE)

410 Willowed! Nood.

Posted by: flounder at November 14, 2014 02:20 PM (sDapq)

411 Who hired him? Who put out the sole source bid for the fraud? This investigation of Obamacare should be rolled out like a RICO. Start with Gruber, flip him or tell him he goes to jail with claw back of his "fees", move to the next bracket of fraud, repeat. Do all of this right as the Supreme Court challenge is being readied to be argued. Make the Obama solicitor general argue the pro-fraud side.

Posted by: Lester at November 14, 2014 02:20 PM (2UPXV)

412 You know, we should investigate this Gruber guy.

Posted by: DARRELL ISSA ESQ at November 14, 2014 02:20 PM (XzRw1)

413 Do I have this right? Gruber was the math wiz who allowed the fine tuning of the ACA ? Pelosi says Gruber did not write the legislation (tho he says he wrote a part). So where are and who are the other co-conspirators? It doesn't seem any legislators were involved.

Posted by: Bob from table9 at November 14, 2014 02:21 PM (WNERA)

414 Posted by: Romeo13 at November 14, 2014 02:18 PM (f0pWu)

I have no problem with legal immigration as it is. If they reduce it, also no problem, but I don't think it should be increased.

Posted by: Heralder at November 14, 2014 02:21 PM (/Mxso)

415 And what is funny, the supposedly stupid people that were supposedly tricked by the ACA shenanigans, including Gruber's deceit, they have been against it, consistently, since before it was passed.http://preview.tinyurl.com/ygbsdm7
Posted by: flounder at November 14, 2014 02:19 PM (sDapq)

The only ones duped were the Democrats and the Progressives.

*ahem* That is, they were "nuanced" to.

Posted by: Mikey NTH - We Blanked Out at the Outrage Outlet! at November 14, 2014 02:21 PM (hLRSq)

416 I don't think you get a second bite at the apple Methos.

I wonder if it's the same apple, though. Robert's 'It's a tax' declaration which has it's own problems, was about whether congress had the power to include the individual mandate. As far as I know there hasn't been a case questioning whether the law was even legitimately passed per the congress' rules.

And it may be worth while to push the idea to people who are pissed off about what it's doing to them that it's not even a real law.

Posted by: Methos at November 14, 2014 02:22 PM (A6vWB)

417 Want to stop the madness? Start focusing on what you're state does, not on DC.

DC has effectively seceded from the nation. We need to begin to develope and nurture that idea.

Posted by: Soona at November 14, 2014 02:26 PM (toS2K)

418 Want to stop the madness? Start focusing on what you're state does, not on DC. DC has effectively seceded from the nation. We need to begin to develope and nurture that idea.
Posted by: Soona at November 14, 2014 02:26 PM (toS2K)


--------------------------------------------


Addendum: DC has become it's own rogue state that has delared war on America.

Posted by: Soona at November 14, 2014 02:28 PM (toS2K)

419 Dick Durbin calling for an Affordable Textbook Act.

Not joking.

Posted by: bicentennialguy at November 14, 2014 02:31 PM (dg6oj)

420 They will have food drives after the burnings. They did in LA. Lack of stores will only affect a minority and those will mostly be the thugs.

Posted by: The Progs at November 14, 2014 02:31 PM (iQIUe)

421
What about BUSH'S LIES you Republican Dumb-Ass Retards. Name calling does not cut it so grow up and do something to make this county better !@!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: Jenny Stienum at November 14, 2014 02:31 PM (Sd++4)

422 419 Dick Durbin calling for an Affordable Textbook Act.

Not joking.
------------------------------
What did they do with all those old textbooks? Its not like math and spelling changed that much in the last 60 years. I guess buying new books to celebrate corn holing is expensive but important cuz reasons.

Posted by: Super Creepy Rob Lowe at November 14, 2014 02:40 PM (oDCMR)

423 It is much worse than this.

Departments and other States paid Gruber hundred of thousands each for cookie cutter reports on how the ACA is to work, totaling millions. All taxpayer money. He's a crook.

Department Health Human Services: $297,600 + 2,000,000 for ongoing contract
Minnesota: $329,000
Michigan: $481,050
Wisconsin: $400,000
Vermont: $400,000
West Virginia
Main
Colorado
Oregon

Sweetness and Light
hhttp://tinyurl.com/m74dvsh

My animated gif of Gruber again:
http://tinyurl.com/lnxsumu

Posted by: bour3 at November 14, 2014 03:50 PM (5x3+2)

424 Kim Kardashian: OFA's Internet-breaking Distraction Kraken.

Posted by: sulla at November 14, 2014 07:35 PM (+1vYq)

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