Saturday Politics Thread: Messaging on Economic Freedom [Y-not]

I was debating about what to do as a follow up to last week's post in which we looked at the economic policies of potential GOP candidates for 2016. After Tuesday's terrific election results (and the uptick in names being bandied about in light of those results) it occurred to me that it might be useful for us to actually listen to the candidates. In addition to helping us glean something about each candidate's economic vision, it may also give us a feel for some of their personal qualities that factor into a successful campaigner. I admit that, with the exception of Perry and Cruz, I have not listened to most of these folks at any length, so it's probably time to remedy that.

Without further ado, here are some speeches given by the potential candidates we've been considering, running in order of candidate popularity. I decided to use their CPAC speeches, when available. They're delivered before a friendly audience and the point of the speeches to sell themselves to conservatives. All of the speeches run under 20 minutes in length. Whenever possible, I've linked to transcripts as well, although I think listening to and watching the candidates is a useful exercise. (I also tried to find a second, shorter clip just for the impatient among us.)

Let's start with Governor Scott Walker, who just won his third electoral victory in Wisconsin garnering 52.3% of the votes cast (his opponent captured 46.6%). Walker skipped CPAC this year, so I'm providing you with his 2013 speech. It runs about 13 minutes:

I was not able to find the text of Gov. Walker's speech. If anyone has a copy, put the link in the comments and I'll update the post.

For a change of pace, here's Walker's victory speech from this week:


The next candidate on our list is Senator Ted Cruz, the junior senator from Texas. You'll recall that after a hard-fought primary battle, Ted Cruz "cruised" to victory over his Democrat opponent.

Here is Ted Cruz's speech at CPAC 2014:

And here's a link to the transcript of the speech.

If you don't have the patience for a longish speech, here's a shorter clip of Cruz in which he is talking about Reagan's "A Time for Choosing" speech:


Our next 2016 prospect, Rick Perry, is finishing up a record-long stint as governor of Texas, having been elected three times and serving for a 14 years in that office.

Here's Governor Rick Perry speaking at CPAC earlier this year:

And here's a link to the text of his speech.

For a change of pace, here's a short clip of Governor Perry speaking at a ceremony honoring Tim Cole, the young Texas man who was falsely convicted of rape (and who died in prison). Background about the case is here.

(I chose this clip because it's short and it shows Perry in a different, non-red meat, context.)


Our next 2016 hopeful, Governor Bobby Jindal, was not up for re-election this year. He has been governor since 2008, having won re-election in a landslide in 2011.

Jindal spoke at CPAC this year:

Here's a link to the transcript of Governor Jindal's speech.

And, for something shorter, here's Jindal smacking Obama upside the head after a meeting with the nation's governors:

Our next candidate,Governor Nikki Haley, was re-elected this year by a margin of 56% to 41.4%.

Governor Haley introduced Mitt Romney at CPAC 2013 and used the four minutes that she had to talk about South Carolina's fight with Washington, D.C.

For something longer, here's Nikki Haley's RNC 2012 speech:


Our next prospect,Representative Trey Gowdy, is in a safe district, winning re-election with over 85% of the vote.

Here's Trey Gowdy giving a fiery speech on the floor of the House slamming Obama's executive over-reach:

I wasn't able to find any campaign-type speeches for Gowdy, but here's one of his campaign ads from 2010:


Our next 2016 prospect, New Mexico Governor Susana Martinez, won re-election 57.3% to 42.7% last week. Governor Martinez did not attend CPAC because it conflicts with New Mexico's legislative schedule.

Here's her speech at the 2012 Republican National Convention:

(Transcript here)

And for a change of pace, here's one of her campaign ads from this year:


By the way, if you're interested, this site has a round up of the CPAC 2014 speeches for the top 2016 contenders.


So, what do you think about these candidates' ability to deliver a conservative message and to connect with Americans?

I confess that I like Jindal's style the best. He held my full attention throughout the entire CPAC speech. In contrast, I think Susana Martinez's delivery is a little too "soft" for the top slot (she might make a nice foil to a harder edged running mate). In all fairness to Governor Martinez, I did not have many video clips from which to choose. That said, all of these prospective 2016 candidates seem acceptable to me in terms of "stump speech" skills.

How about you?

Posted by: Open Blogger at 11:14 AM




Comments

(Jump to bottom of page)

1 There you go!

Posted by: EC at November 08, 2014 11:16 AM (doBIb)

2 First

Posted by: blaster at November 08, 2014 11:16 AM (Rx8ML)

3 First

Posted by: blaster at November 08, 2014 11:16 AM (Rx8ML)

4 Man, that was a bitch.

Lemme know if you all have issues b/c of all the vids and/or if there are broken links.

Posted by: Y-not at November 08, 2014 11:17 AM (9BRsg)

5 MOVE THIS BELOW AND USE TINYURL.

Posted by: Costanza Defense at November 08, 2014 11:18 AM (ZPrif)

6 Draco Gowdy is good at the rapid fire delivery and the verbal nut punches. I would make him the face man for the cameras.

Posted by: EC at November 08, 2014 11:18 AM (doBIb)

7 One thing I learned, some of these folks (esp Haley, Martinez, and Gowdy) really need to hire someone to post YouTube videos if they want to rise in national profile.

Posted by: Y-not at November 08, 2014 11:18 AM (9BRsg)

8 Sorry, blaster.

Posted by: EC at November 08, 2014 11:18 AM (doBIb)

9 Costanza

Please take it below.

Also, PLEASE USE TINYURL. You keep blowing out the margins.

Posted by: Y-not at November 08, 2014 11:19 AM (9BRsg)

10 Posted by: Costanza Defense at November 08, 2014 11:18 AM (ZPrif)


Yeah, HuffPo is also pushing the Republicans won because they moved to the middle line as well.


I expect that one to start dominating as soon as the Left gets back to healthy blood levels.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at November 08, 2014 11:19 AM (xSCb6)

11 Fredo on TV nominating another one of his progressive wacko thugs to AG- Makes me want to puke

Posted by: Nevergiveup at November 08, 2014 11:22 AM (M0mf2)

12 If I were to rank these folks just based on their presentation skills, I'd go as follows: Jindal > Cruz > Haley > Perry > Walker > Martinez

I don't feel like I know how Gowdy does on stump speeches, so I can't really rate him. I do like his floor speeches.

Posted by: Y-not at November 08, 2014 11:23 AM (9BRsg)

13 Putin allegedly described Obama's negotiating skills as akin to playing chess with a pigeon: "He knocks over the pieces, sh!ts all over the board, then he flies away." Not sure if Vladdy actually said that, but it sure sounds like our Barry.

Posted by: Susan Rice at November 08, 2014 11:23 AM (e8kgV)

14 That's an awful lot of content this early in the weekend.

Posted by: akula51 at November 08, 2014 11:24 AM (R5qgD)

15 Crap.

So, anyway, I have been saying for a while that the Republicans have some very good candidates in the governors. There is a deep bench, and if they can go at the primaries without calling each other a bunch of things that will turn off voters (I am looking at you Jeb) then I think the nominee will be the stronger for it.

I don't know that economic freedom is a powerful enough message. And here we have to worry about the war on women. Men and women are different, and women like the idea of economic security more then economic freedom, because freedom includes the freedom to fail.

So we need to translate that freedom message into a security message, because we will be safer if we are stronger - not just in economics but in everything.

Make the case that strong=safe and then wrap programs around it. There can be a message in strong education, strong science, and being the strong horse.

I think there is a message there that can be positive on immigration. People want to come here for a reason. We don't want a country that people do not want to come to.

Daddy party and mommy party. Republicans have to be strong enough to be strong, and not apologize for wanting the strength to make us safe.

Posted by: blaster at November 08, 2014 11:25 AM (Rx8ML)

16
O'Bumbler messing with the Saturday Fox Business lineup by announcing his pick for Attorney General'ette during the Cashin' In Show!

Posted by: Doctor Fish at November 08, 2014 11:25 AM (3/wAJ)

17 Oh I guess I forgot the key element of the translation.

Free -> strong -> secure.

Posted by: blaster at November 08, 2014 11:26 AM (Rx8ML)

18 Any candidate that skipped CPAC has my vote.

Posted by: Thin veneer of civility at November 08, 2014 11:28 AM (XzRw1)

19 So we need to translate that freedom message into a security message,
because we will be safer if we are stronger - not just in economics but
in everything.



Make the case that strong=safe and then wrap programs around it.
There can be a message in strong education, strong science, and being
the strong horse.



I think there is a message there that can be positive on
immigration. People want to come here for a reason. We don't want a
country that people do not want to come to.
---

Yeah, I agree with a lot of these points.

We should not run another version of Romney/Ryan's campaign. I think your Strong America message is a good one.

Posted by: Y-not at November 08, 2014 11:28 AM (9BRsg)

20 Dr. Ben C. premiers his commercial tomorrow and looks to be the first actually kicking off a campaign. May want to add him.

Posted by: MostlyRight at November 08, 2014 11:28 AM (SRArp)

21 >>Any candidate that skipped CPAC has my vote.

Are you confusing CPAC with the Values Voter Summit?

Walker only skipped it this year b/c of the campaign. Martinez says she skips it b/c of the NM budget cycle. I'm not sure what the dealio is with Haley.

Posted by: Y-not at November 08, 2014 11:29 AM (9BRsg)

22 Dr. Ben C. premiers his commercial tomorrow and looks to be the first actually kicking off a campaign. May want to add him.
---

We covered him. He didn't poll well enough to continue here. I am not doing all of the candidates who might run --- I'm doing the ones conservative enough (and of interest to) for the horde.

The one I may add is Pence.

Posted by: Y-not at November 08, 2014 11:31 AM (9BRsg)

23 Dear Ben Carson:

You have a wonderful life story and are an accomplished surgeon, and you are no doubt making a ton of money making speeches.

Enjoy it.

But do not fall prey to those telling you that you should run for President.

Be an enthusiastic leader in the culture wars. We need you.

Thanks, but no thanks on the Presidential run.

Posted by: blaster at November 08, 2014 11:32 AM (Rx8ML)

24 I sincerely hope this country doesn't make the mistake of squandering another 4-8 years by electing another "outsider" that's going to "change everything" and then "does nothing". We don't need that. Plus, there's that 2A squishiness from the good Doctor.

As high as I am on Cruz, I'm not sure I can vote for a Senator (junior Senator, at that). I'm liking Walker or even Perry more and more as time goes on. We need someone who has led something as a Chief Executive - be it a company, a state, a non-profit...something. This nation can't afford any more OJT for its leader.

Walker has been to hell and back thrice, against big national money.

Posted by: akula51 at November 08, 2014 11:33 AM (R5qgD)

25 Well, according to the Dems and MSM, Ted Cruz is clearly the one they're most scared of. He's gotten the most attention since the Tuesday bloodbath.

Posted by: Lizzy at November 08, 2014 11:33 AM (ABcz/)

26 So, blaster, since you and I appear to be the only ones on topic, what do you think of the candidates' speaking styles? I was pleasantly surprised by how great Jindal's speech was.

Posted by: Y-not at November 08, 2014 11:34 AM (9BRsg)

27 Disappointed Pence was not included (I am a total homer).

As far as rating them on how effective their stump speeches are: Cruz, Walker, Jindal, Perry, Haley Martinez, Gowdy* (not enough data).

Posted by: Nick in South Bend at November 08, 2014 11:34 AM (Ffq1Z)

28 >>blaster at November 08, 2014 11:32 AM (Rx8ML)

Exactly!

Posted by: Lizzy at November 08, 2014 11:34 AM (ABcz/)

29 Cruz is just amazing. I was in YAF in the 60's. Then is was a pretty HARD CORE conservative group, Young Americans for Freedom. Now it's Foundation.


Wearing a YAF button identified you as a storm troop for Goldwater. When asked what it stood for we always said, Yugoslavian Air Force.

Posted by: Nip Sip at November 08, 2014 11:35 AM (0FSuD)

30 wsj


North Korea Releases 2 Detained Americans

U.S. Director of National Intelligence James Clapper Accompanying Freed Men

WASHINGTON--North Korea has released two Americans who had been imprisoned and sentenced to hard labor, the State Department said Saturday.

The Americans, Kenneth Bae and Matthew Todd Miller, were freed following negotiations for their release between U.S. Director of National Intelligence James Clapper and officials in Pyongyang.

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at November 08, 2014 11:35 AM (IXrOn)

31 25 Ted Cruz is clearly the one they're most scared of.

Sounds like a great Majority Leader for now and future CJ of the SCOTUS to me. He and Trey Gowdy can arm-wrestle for it.

Posted by: akula51 at November 08, 2014 11:35 AM (R5qgD)

32 There we go. That first time up was a dead end.

Go get 'em, Trey Gowdy! Should be a good two years for speeches.

Posted by: t-bird at November 08, 2014 11:36 AM (FcR7P)

33 So, blaster, since you and I appear to be the only ones on topic

What topic?

Posted by: Leena Bunham at November 08, 2014 11:37 AM (Dwehj)

34 Haley probably is not considering a run for President. On her own she would be a long shot. Winning South Carolina is a different deal than running in the country. And honestly she may not want the job, it may not just be a calculation. She doesn't have national name recognition and being a thorn in the SC Republican Party's side, she isn't plugged into money.

There are national names on the list. Bush for better for worse, Christie ditto, Walker, Jindal, Perry.

Posted by: blaster at November 08, 2014 11:37 AM (Rx8ML)

35 There you go?

Nope.

Not going there. This whole thing is beyond speaking well and stage craft. We're standing on a knife edge waiting to see just which course a self important megalomaniac with delusions of grandeur will choose.

Then we'll have to wait and see if anyone has to courage to face him down.

We're beyond words and ballot boxes now. We're in uncharted territory even with thousands of years of written history to guide us.

Posted by: Underwood Universal, what real writers use at November 08, 2014 11:38 AM (sbJ+n)

36 If we're looking at the whole package, I kinda like Haley. She has private sector experience (including Chamber of Commerce ties, which could really help in getting the GOP "establishment" on board), plus the governorship, plus presents very well, and has the "it" factor.

I also really like Jindal.

I like Perry a lot but it just depends if he can roll out strongly enough to wipe away the bad memories of the last run.

Walker... great record in many ways, but I am not as convinced he translates strongly to the national scene.

I'm starting to think Martinez doesn't have the oomph for the top slot.

I love Cruz, but I have a feeling he won't make a serious run this time.

I think Gowdy is a non-starter for POTUS at this stage of the game.

Posted by: Y-not at November 08, 2014 11:38 AM (9BRsg)

37 Fredo on TV nominating another one of his progressive wacko thugs to AG- Makes me want to puke

Posted by: Nevergiveup at November 08, 2014 11:22 AM (M0mf2)
Make that an affirmative action thug

Posted by: Velvet Ambition at November 08, 2014 11:38 AM (R8hU8)

38 I'm not arguing for Dr. Carson. I personally think he is more effective commenting on politics from the outside. Just saying if a guy like he's actually throwing his hat in, and will be up on the debate stages, running ads, on the talk shows, running around Iowa and eventually on ballots with an R behind his name it may be wise to acknowledge the guy. He may very well at the very least impact the path this election takes.

Posted by: MostlyRight at November 08, 2014 11:38 AM (SRArp)

39 What about that David Brat?
He certainly has the endorsements?
Not a community organizer , but a clear choice for less rhetoric and more credentials...

Posted by: Uper from Copper Harbor at November 08, 2014 11:39 AM (/WmRg)

40 Give Me Walker or Give Me Death!

NB: Do not construe this joke to mean I will sit 2016 out if the GOP doesn't nominate Walker.

Posted by: Patrick Henry at November 08, 2014 11:39 AM (uqV2n)

41 I like Dr Carson but the last thing we need is another Amateur in the White House or running for it.

Posted by: Nevergiveup at November 08, 2014 11:40 AM (M0mf2)

42 What about that David Brat?

Dude, Brat hasn't even entered Congress yet

Posted by: boulder terlit hobo at November 08, 2014 11:40 AM (AVEe1)

43 "I don't know that economic freedom is a powerful enough message. And here we have to worry about the war on women. Men and women are different, and women like the idea of economic security more then economic freedom, because freedom includes the freedom to fail."


I think any message that includes "freedom" is better left on its own, used interchangeably among different subjects. Economic opportunity might be better since opportunity is a common buzzword familiar to LIVs.


Not that I think the middle or LIVs are the key to winning (it's always about turnout of the base), but they can't be ignored.


Economic security is one of those loaded terms which, to me at least, is sort of like telling someone that their investment is guaranteed a return. It's like they want security from the government. The message should be jobs, jobs, jobs and use the Left's argument against them about "bringing jobs back to America" by promoting conservative agendas.


Massive employment means more economic choice (opportunity) and that job you hate is one you can leave because you have the choice to. That means employers have to compete to keep you which starts to dull the "ZOMG RAISE TEH MINIMUM WAGEZ!" argument which is only gaining steam.


When you have only one government to fall back on, the government doesn't have to compete to keep you, you have no other government to choose from. And the pittance the government pays you is what they truly think you're worth.


The arguments are there, but they take balls to make.


Meh, too early for this crap. NEED MOAR KOFFEE!

Posted by: Burn the Witch at November 08, 2014 11:41 AM (xSCb6)

44 Gowdy at Justice...., BUT, we would lose him as a rep.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at November 08, 2014 11:42 AM (F2IAQ)

45 I think we have a bunch of polished speakers with good messages.

Some people are better from the red meat side as they say.

Alan Keyes was a fantastic speaker. He could rev up a conservative crowd. In 96 I saw the Republican primary candidates all come speak in SC. Keyes was late and the crowd stuck around for him. He had the place on its feet when he spoke. But a horrible candidate.

Being able to speak well is only part of the deal (cough Ben Carson cough).

Posted by: blaster at November 08, 2014 11:42 AM (Rx8ML)

46 @ 42 and your community Organizer ?, he entered something?

Posted by: Uper from Copper Harbor at November 08, 2014 11:42 AM (/WmRg)

47 35 There you go?

Nope.

Not going there. This whole thing is beyond speaking well and stage craft. We're standing on a knife edge waiting to see just which course a self important megalomaniac with delusions of grandeur will choose.
-------

I cannot divine whether you're talking Mitt! or Jeb!

But of course it doesn't matter.

Posted by: Oschisms at November 08, 2014 11:42 AM (uqV2n)

48

I like them all.
(Romney's not running, or so he says.)

Posted by: artisanal 'ette at November 08, 2014 11:42 AM (IXrOn)

49 Find somewhere and run for Congress or the Senate, Dr. Carson. I know it feels like "going back to square zero" after an incredibly successful medical career and all - but that's how this works.

Posted by: akula51 at November 08, 2014 11:43 AM (R5qgD)

50 We're gonna be Lynched

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at November 08, 2014 11:43 AM (F2IAQ)

51 20
Dr. Ben C. premiers his commercial tomorrow and looks to be the first actually kicking off a campaign. May want to add him.

Posted by: MostlyRight at November 08, 2014 11:28 AM (SRArp)


Nope. Last thing we need is another ego trip candidate. Does he have a 9-9-9 plan?

Posted by: Nip Sip at November 08, 2014 11:43 AM (0FSuD)

52 Just saying if a guy like he's actually throwing his hat in, and will be
up on the debate stages, running ads, on the talk shows, running around
Iowa and eventually on ballots with an R behind his name it may be wise
to acknowledge the guy.
---

We did acknowledge him. We discussed him at length. The consensus was that he's not POTUS material, at least not now.

I am not going to do so much research on all of the possible candidates. I'm trying to help us really look into the records/aptitudes of the conservatives that might go up against whatever RINO diablo the Powers That Be want to shove down our throats -- hence, no Jeb Bush, no Romney, no Christie, no Rubio. The point of these post is to help conservatives be able to line up behind strong conservative options so we can keep the squishes out.

I may do a post on Pence next week. His name hadn't really bee getting floated much until recently.

Posted by: Y-not at November 08, 2014 11:44 AM (9BRsg)

53 I know that's not what you meant, but I want to make one thing perfectly clear:

If Mitt or Jeb are in, the right cannot afford to split its vote among primary candidates early in the race like last time. They have to divide before conquering.

Posted by: Oschisms at November 08, 2014 11:44 AM (uqV2n)

54 @ 49 yeah we have a guy POTUS who ran for something and did absolutely nothing..
What difference does it make?

Posted by: Uper from Copper Harbor at November 08, 2014 11:45 AM (/WmRg)

55 Thanks Y-Not. Pence is a true dark horse type candidate, but one who could legitimately catch fire and win given the right circumstances.

That said, he pulled less than 50% in his race for governor, which gives me a bit of pause.

Posted by: Nick in South Bend at November 08, 2014 11:46 AM (Ffq1Z)

56 54 What difference does it make?

Our "side" can't nominate candidates based on their skin color and win. Their "side" can. It's a really big difference folks may have noticed.

Posted by: akula51 at November 08, 2014 11:47 AM (R5qgD)

57 Posted by: Y-not at November 08, 2014 11:34 AM (9BRsg)

Jindal has shown steady improvement since he emerged on the national stage. He started out looking like a kid and sounding too earnest, but has moderated that significantly.

I like him.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at November 08, 2014 11:47 AM (Zu3d9)

58 And I don't want to keep sounding all negative on Dr Carson. BUT...

I think a lot of people like him because ooh he was in Obama's face!

Well, no, he really wasn't. And if you read his book, you will see he disowns that idea. I think many people who like the idea of him for President have not read his book. Whether it represents his true positions or not, I don't know. But if you read it, you will come away with the feeling that he is a squish.

Posted by: blaster at November 08, 2014 11:47 AM (Rx8ML)

59 I don't know that economic freedom is a powerful enough message. And here we have to worry about the war on women. Men and women are different, and women like the idea of economic security more then economic freedom, because freedom includes the freedom to fail.


I'd argue that an economic message is the most powerful one of all. It's a big-tent issue that cuts across all the divisions that the left employs.

Everybody's standard of living is down and it's the fault of Progressives. It's easily provable by just about every metric known to man. All that needs to happen is for the Repumpkins to have a unified message.

The crappy economy also gives us a valid, real world reason to start cutting Fedzilla down to size: we simply cannot afford a government this size. President Boy would remind the people of this as he was cutting entire departments and drastically reducing the size and power of others that are truly needed.

And the proper response to the silliness of the "War on Women" is laughter, perhaps followed by some examples of lefties disparities in incomes. No attention should be paid to it other than to ridicule it mercilessly.

Tuesday's election was The Great Unleashing of a lot of pent-up frustration, IMO. Now is not the time to back down in any way. The pendulum is swinging back towards sanity and common sense, thank God. The left is on the ropes, we need to keep pounding until they're on the ground and pissing themselves.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, International Double-Naught Cat Speculator at November 08, 2014 11:48 AM (0HooB)

60 >>Posted by: Nick in South Bend at November 08, 2014 11:46 AM

Since you're a Hoosier, have you heard any buzz about Evan Bayh returning to the political scene?

If I was the Democrats, I'll resurrect him. He seems more conservative than he actually is and he's presidential looking.

Posted by: Y-not at November 08, 2014 11:48 AM (9BRsg)

61 I didn't listen to all the clips, (although I may later) but I thank you, Y-Not for getting them together as well as the rest of the post I heard Martinez and Haley during the Republican convention-good speakers but they don't come across as authoritatively as Hillary Clinton (I know! I know) might. I think they're all good speakers from clips I have heard elsewhere.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at November 08, 2014 11:49 AM (QlprU)

62 "Plus, there's that 2A squishiness from the good Doctor."


Well, I did read recently that he's since walked back his previous 2A statements in light of new information. I looked it up after I heard he put his hat in the ring for '16 because every time his name comes up I think about his previous 2A stance.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at November 08, 2014 11:49 AM (xSCb6)

63 I'd say Walker is my preferred choice right now, for a few reasons.

First, look at the landscape of the opposition. Lots can change can happen in 2 years, but I have a hard time seeing them get away from Hillary, even though they kinda want to. Maybe Warren. When we take the governorships on a scale like this, their options become limited.

Along with that, for all the talk about War on Women, they've boxed themselves in a corner here where it's become a War on Men. Using the ole' politics of division and fear they endlessly accuse us of seem to have diminished returns over time, and put people on alert.

Walker does not have anything in his biography that lets him easily get tagged with the elitist label they love to use. He is not flashy, and uses that style to draw attention from workers without inflaming the monied interests. There is this huge fault line in the Republican side, clearly, and I don't know anybody that manages through that tension more naturally than Walker.

Regionally, nobody is rejecting liberalism more rapidly and dramatically than the Midwest. This has been true since 2010. It was a reason I was on board with Pawlenty, for Pete's sake. Walker has achieved a ton more, both in getting elected again and again (and again) despite being a top target, and in real accomplishments in a tough state to govern. I think there is a great chance to change the map. They are turning to Republican governors in the Midwest. States like Illinois, for example, have been looking at Wisconsin with some amount of envy. They're willing to listen to a strong candidate that appeals to them in that region.

Posted by: Dave S. at November 08, 2014 11:49 AM (UvR6d)

64 Jindal has shown steady improvement since he emerged on the national
stage. He started out looking like a kid and sounding too earnest, but
has moderated that significantly.
--

Yeah, I was really surprised by how well he's improved on his presentations. His speech was really the only one I enjoyed fully, including Perry and Cruz, both of whom I really like politically.

I think Haley is a very good speaker as well, better than Walker.

Posted by: Y-not at November 08, 2014 11:50 AM (9BRsg)

65 Jindal needs a better wardrobe, however. Some of his outfit choices are not good.

Posted by: Y-not at November 08, 2014 11:50 AM (9BRsg)

66 I want to vote for someone who truly believes in the 2A as written and also truly believes that our borders must be secured immediately and lawlessness cannot be rewarded. I'm not too keen on someone modifying their views based on tea leaves or other aspirations. It has to be real.

And most of all, executive experience. I've worked in the healthcare industry for a while, so may just be naturally averse to Doctors running anything.

Posted by: akula51 at November 08, 2014 11:52 AM (R5qgD)

67 I think Haley is a very good speaker as well, better than Walker.


Posted by: Y-not at November 08, 2014 11:50 AM (9BRsg)

And she has a nice set of tits! I denounce myself.

Posted by: Nip Sip at November 08, 2014 11:52 AM (0FSuD)

68 What was Walker's stance on immigration?


I haven't read all these monster threads to see if it was covered, but I seem to recall Walker being a little too cozy with the Amnesty idea.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at November 08, 2014 11:53 AM (xSCb6)

69 Y-Not,

My father is a flaming socialist democract, and has been working with liberal government types for a long time. He has some connections. I am not saying I am the ultimate insider for Hoosier politics, but I know some things.

Bayh will either wash in with the next administration (whether GOP or Dem) as a high level cabinet type or he will just make tons of money lecturing and doing talk show appearances. His wife is a professional corporate board member. OR he will be Hillary's VP choice (he has few other Democrat friends at this point).

He is almost certainly done with electoral politics within IN. He passed on the governors race, which he likely would have won and he did not have the muscle to help his former chief of staff remain mayor of Indy a few years back.

Make sense?

Posted by: Nick in South Bend at November 08, 2014 11:53 AM (Ffq1Z)

70 Yeah, I know there's a lot to wade through with these vids, but bookmark this post and watch some of them. Especially watch Jindal's CPAC speech and the short clip of Haley introducing Mitt at CPAC.

Posted by: Y-not at November 08, 2014 11:53 AM (9BRsg)

71 @BB sure but not everyone is on the economics track. Actually, most people are doing okay. We mostly have first world problems. Okay is not great, though.

Yes we should laugh at the war on women attack that the Dems roll,out, but I think it is better then to have a real pro woman agenda to point to and say no, they are the ones really at war with you. I don't have the wordsmithing, but you know, the Dems want to enslave you for the cost of birth control pills? Is that worth it? Aren't you worth more than that?

Posted by: blaster at November 08, 2014 11:54 AM (Rx8ML)

72 >>Posted by: Nick in South Bend at November 08, 2014 11:53 AM

Man, if I was Evan Bayh, I'd consider running for POTUS as the Sane Democrat. (Not that he's as sane as portrayed, but that's the image I recall from my days in Indiana.)

Posted by: Y-not at November 08, 2014 11:55 AM (9BRsg)

73 Walker hasn't really taken a definitive stance on amnesty. I think it was WaPo who said he favored a path to citizenship but he denied it and claimed they took him out of context.

Posted by: Nigel Wst Dickens at November 08, 2014 11:56 AM (HstNY)

74 23 Dear Ben Carson:

You have a wonderful life story and are an accomplished surgeon, and you are no doubt making a ton of money making speeches.

Enjoy it.

But do not fall prey to those telling you that you should run for President.

Be an enthusiastic leader in the culture wars. We need you.

Thanks, but no thanks on the Presidential run.
Posted by: blaster at November 08, 2014 11:32 AM (Rx8ML)


Agreed.

Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Suntanning in Bizzaro World at November 08, 2014 11:56 AM (9t4c5)

75 >>And she has a nice set of tits! I denounce myself.

Yep, she's attractive.

I'm a little frustrated that some people are comparing her to Palin in their minds (and therefore discounting her) without really looking into her seriously. She is pretty different from Palin and would be much harder to ridicule, imho.

Posted by: Y-not at November 08, 2014 11:57 AM (9BRsg)

76 Little known horde facts. I went to elementary school with Evan Bayh.

Posted by: Nip Sip at November 08, 2014 11:58 AM (0FSuD)

77 Yeah, he should have run.

Rumor was that the VP choice for Obama was Bayh or Biden. And the insiders were split within Obama's circle. There were two reasons that Biden was chosen:

1) Jarrett threw her weight behind him.
2) Bayh would have started positioning himself to run as a centrist, rejecting part of Obama's legacy. Biden really presented no such threat. So the end of the administration would supposedly be cleaner.

Bayh should run, but I think his time has passed. I don't know how he would get out of the primaries these days.

Posted by: Nick in South Bend at November 08, 2014 11:58 AM (Ffq1Z)

78 I *think* Walker is in the expanded guest worker program camp with Romney and some others.

Posted by: Y-not at November 08, 2014 11:58 AM (9BRsg)

79 Nip Slip...Thats awesome!

Posted by: Nick in South Bend at November 08, 2014 11:59 AM (Ffq1Z)

80 Evan Bayh was on Fox on election night and he did come across as a sane, down to earth individual.

Posted by: Nigel Wst Dickens at November 08, 2014 11:59 AM (HstNY)

81 Jindal speaks well, makes his point..., not sure that translates to Presidential Timber.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at November 08, 2014 12:00 PM (F2IAQ)

82 "Yes we should laugh at the war on women attack that the Dems roll,out, but I think it is better then to have a real pro woman agenda to point to and say no, they are the ones really at war with you."


I agree that we should aggressively point to the very real War on _____ that the Donks are constantly waging, but disagree that the proper response should be "Here's our identity-based political agenda" as a response. It accepts their premise and plays ball on their turf.


The only identity politics we should play is to demonstrate the demonstrable fact that their identity politics has hurt the very identities they purport to help. Our message should be inclusiveness (another lefty buzzword). It's time to start using their language against them.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at November 08, 2014 12:00 PM (xSCb6)

83 I'ma little discouraged that in an analysis of speaking styles and content, people have to mention her tits. Could we just save that for the cheerleader and ONT threads?

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at November 08, 2014 12:00 PM (QlprU)

84 I have no problem with allowing more guest workers to come here (illegals, feel free to go home and get in line to come back), as long as it's indexed to the labor force participation rate (and not that lie they call "unemployment").

Shouldn't be a worry - or even under discussion - for a few years.

Posted by: akula51 at November 08, 2014 12:01 PM (R5qgD)

85 Evan Bayh was on Fox on election night and he did come across as a sane, down to earth individual.
----

Yep, that's why he's dangerous.

Face it, if the GOP runs a Jeb Bush type, of if someone really controversial like Rand got the nomination, a lot of us might be persuaded to vote for Bayh.

Posted by: Y-not at November 08, 2014 12:02 PM (9BRsg)

86 @75 at the shallow end of the political pool, where an awful lot of people are, Haley is attractive without being cute. I think that is in her favor. She is rather Palinesque, though, in that she has taken on the Republican establishment in SC which is a very powerful machine. And she beat them.

The press in SC tried to Palinize her but failed. I don't doubt that a national press with more resources would try harder, but she has a longer political history, she got reelected as governor, she is a winner and she has the lesson of Palin to learn from.

Posted by: blaster at November 08, 2014 12:02 PM (Rx8ML)

87 I would love to see a Jindal Snyder ticket. But, I doubt that is possible.

Posted by: Nick in South Bend at November 08, 2014 12:02 PM (Ffq1Z)

88 FWIW, I think Haley's legs are nicer than her boobehs.

Posted by: Y-not at November 08, 2014 12:03 PM (9BRsg)

89 So in Charlotte today, we had a Veterans Day Parade downtown..



NOT ONE WORD about it in local paper. NOT ONE WORD.



Fucking commies

Posted by: Nip Sip at November 08, 2014 12:03 PM (0FSuD)

90
Little known horde facts. I went to elementary school with Evan Bayh.

Posted by: Nip Sip at November 08, 2014 11:58 AM (0FSuD)







Please tell me you gave him a wedgie in homeroom. All Donks should be given wedgies, at minimum.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at November 08, 2014 12:03 PM (OMTVG)

91 There are definitely several folks mentioned in this thread that I would prefer Bayh + a Republican legislature over (Hi, Susannah!)

Posted by: akula51 at November 08, 2014 12:04 PM (R5qgD)

92 I'm provisionally going with Walker right now, but I really would like to have a clearer idea of his immigration stance. I can stomach expanded guest worker programs as long as the program has some strict controls (which I'm not confident the Feds can perform).


Hopefully he'll provide that soon with 2016 ramping up now.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at November 08, 2014 12:05 PM (xSCb6)

93 @82. I guess I wasn't clear. A republican program of freedom means strength means security is pro woman all by itself without being specifically pandering to women stance.

That is what I mean.

You point out that Dems claim to be pro woman or whatever, and then show how they really aren't, and that a program that helps all Americans helps women too.

Posted by: blaster at November 08, 2014 12:05 PM (Rx8ML)

94 >>"Yes we should laugh at the war on women attack that the Dems
roll,out, but I think it is better then to have a real pro woman agenda
to point to and say no, they are the ones really at war with you."


I mentioned this before, but there was an excellent Cory Gardner radio ad that addressed it like this - narrated by a women: "Udall says he's for reproductive freedom. Well, there's birth control and then there's freedom. I'm for freedom to choose my own doctor. I'm for the freedom to own a gun. etc."

It was a great way to twist their rhetoric around into a legitimate discussion of what women want (which is really what men want, too) instead of the "we care about your ladybits" crap the Dems keep pushing.
Also, it was *positive* - no war talk, freedom talk.

Posted by: Lizzy at November 08, 2014 12:05 PM (ABcz/)

95 >>Shouldn't be a worry - or even under discussion - for a few years.

Yes, and that's why it's scary that some GOPers are floating it now.

In addition, I think that having a large, permanent underclass of unskilled guest workers is a serious matter for a society, so it should be thoroughly discussed. Looking at places that have foreigners in menial positions (Japan? Germany?) it hasn't been an asset to them, culturally.

So I'm not sure I am for it. But certainly not now, when so many Americans are under or unemployed.

Posted by: Y-not at November 08, 2014 12:05 PM (9BRsg)

96 Ted Cruz is just awesome. Gov. Perry is good, but he's an awkward public speaker. Also, that smile/grin thing of his is kind of a turnoff. I like Gov. Jindal, but I can't see him appealing to enough people.

We have an awesome team in 2016. It's an embarrassment of riches.

Posted by: ParisParamus at November 08, 2014 12:06 PM (uugta)

97 @90

It was in Falls Church Va, his dad was a congressman. In the 50's that was no big deal. I do remember he always had tons of Coke free! We almost ran over a telephone pole one day when we started a road grader screwing around. Evan stopped it by pulling out the choke, just as it hit the pole.



Yes, we did run like hell.

Posted by: Nip Sip at November 08, 2014 12:07 PM (0FSuD)

98 95 So I'm not sure I am for it. But certainly not now, when so many Americans are under or unemployed.

Yeah, I'm imagining it would compliment an economy humming on all cylinders with real unemployment around 5% really well. And I'll never use the word "permanent".

Posted by: akula51 at November 08, 2014 12:07 PM (R5qgD)

99 "I think Susana Martinez's delivery is a little too 'soft' for the top
slot (she might make a nice foil to a harder edged running mate)."

Note that this is the opposite of the way the roles shook out the last time there was a mixed-gender ticket, in 2008.

Sarah Palin had to be the hard-edged one to offset McCain's lamentable squishy softness, and for her having done so, she ended up being denounced as a bitch.

Posted by: torquewrench at November 08, 2014 12:08 PM (noWW6)

100 I mentioned this before, but there was an excellent
Cory Gardner radio ad that addressed it like this - narrated by a women:
"Udall says he's for reproductive freedom. Well, there's birth control
and then there's freedom. I'm for freedom to choose my own doctor. I'm
for the freedom to own a gun. etc."

It was a great way to twist
their rhetoric around into a legitimate discussion of what women want
(which is really what men want, too) instead of the "we care about your
ladybits" crap the Dems keep pushing.
Also, it was *positive* - no war talk, freedom talk.




Posted by: Lizzy at November 08, 2014 12:05 PM (ABcz/)

------
Gardner's team is not going to have any trouble getting work for quite a while.

Posted by: Dave S. at November 08, 2014 12:09 PM (UvR6d)

101 Massive employment means more economic choice (opportunity) and that job you hate is one you can leave because you have the choice to. That means employers have to compete to keep you which starts to dull the "ZOMG RAISE TEH MINIMUM WAGEZ!" argument which is only gaining steam.


Two words I'd really like to see used together is "opportunity" and "diversity" when discussing the economy.

Allow me to 'splain: As y'all know, I'll climb atop my soapbox to extol the virtues of manufacturing at the drop of a hat. It was a great example of a diversity of positions within one sector. It took many different types of people with many different types of abilities to make the average machine shop run and they all worked together to make it go.

You had accountants, engineers, technicians, machinists, assembly folk, welders, packagers and truck drivers, pretty much the entire range of skills and abilities. The beauty of that was that if you saw some part of it that you liked and wanted to learn and advance, you could easily do so. There were many ways to learn another skill, and not all of them required a degree. In fact, real world experience often counted more than a degree, and knowledge was passed down from one generation to the next through apprenticeships whether formal or not.

Nowadays, it's "all degrees all the time."

We need to transition away from a service-centered economy and get back to stability, not relying so much on sectors that fluctuate wildly, though naturally. People need the goodies of modern life and there is no good reason for us to be farming this out to foreign countries who aren't particularly enamored with our ideas of individuality and freedom. One could even argue that if you want a big government, the only way to safely get that is make sure the economy is booming.

We can and should be making our own products. We're still the world's largest economy and the fact that we're not making our own stuff speaks to the selfish little minds that we've allowed to be in charge of it.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, International Double-Naught Cat Speculator at November 08, 2014 12:10 PM (0HooB)

102 Football thread up.

Gardening thread and WeirdDave's thread will go up later on today.

Posted by: Y-not at November 08, 2014 12:10 PM (9BRsg)

103 >>Sarah Palin had to be the hard-edged one to offset McCain's lamentable
squishy softness, and for her having done so, she ended up being
denounced as a bitch.

The preferred progressive slur is "crazy." Palin is crazy, Bachmann is crazy, now they've started in with Joni Ernst is crazy. They can't stand a strong conservative woman.

Posted by: Lizzy at November 08, 2014 12:11 PM (ABcz/)

104 Sarah Palin had to be the hard-edged one to offset McCain's lamentable
squishy softness, and for her having done so, she ended up being
denounced as a bitch.
---

Yep. It sucks what the McCain campaign did to her. I mean, we know the MSM was going to attack her or any GOP woman, but they got a massive assist from her own team.

Posted by: Y-not at November 08, 2014 12:11 PM (9BRsg)

105 More Jindal, from my town last year.

Big issue locally. The Justice Dept. didn't like the voluntary prayer and didn't want to fund the Young Marines program until the horrifying religious language was taken out.

No, thank you, Bossier Parish said, and just raised the money locally.

http://tinyurl.com/m5qetn3

Of course, this kind of speech will hurt him with the liberals who will claim he'll make them pray hourly while taking their tampon earrings or something.

Posted by: Mama AJ at November 08, 2014 12:14 PM (0xTsz)

106 So I'm not sure I am for it. But certainly not now, when so many Americans are under or unemployed.
Posted by: Y-not
-------------------------------
That point needs to be pounded again and again. There must be a realistic forceful counter-point to the talk about 'compassion'. The argument must install in peoples (LIVs) minds that they are about to be sacrificed to the political machinations of power seekers.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at November 08, 2014 12:14 PM (F2IAQ)

107 Democrats have no other approach to Republicans Conservatives than they're

1. Richie Rich out of touch (as if Hillary Clinton isn't rich and considering the stupid comments she makes she's very out of touch)

2, Crazy

3. Religious Nut Job

4. Evil

or some combination of at the four

And Joni Ernst will get hit hard because her ads mentioned farming concerns and were folksy. Once again it's the sneering contempt for fly over folks

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at November 08, 2014 12:15 PM (QlprU)

108 Once the Gardisil stuff happened, I questioned myself whether Bachmann was crazy, or whether she was functioning as Romney's attack dog.

Posted by: Dave S. at November 08, 2014 12:15 PM (UvR6d)

109 If it came down to Bayh vs. Jeb I'd probably write in Rick Tempest.

Posted by: Nigel West Dickens at November 08, 2014 12:15 PM (/nR7C)

110 When Mike Pence left Congress to run for Governor, I remember hearing that it was a step toward running for Potus. I watched him give a commencement speech and thought he either is Reaganesque or is working very hard to be Reaganesque. He might have that inclusive message everyone craves, too. Yeah, we need to vet him.

Posted by: OldDominionMom at November 08, 2014 12:18 PM (Vp1dQ)

111 Yes we should laugh at the war on women attack that the Dems roll,out, but I think it is better then to have a real pro woman agenda to point to and say no, they are the ones really at war with you. I don't have the wordsmithing, but you know, the Dems want to enslave you for the cost of birth control pills? Is that worth it? Aren't you worth more than that?

That's another thing I've promoted as a talking point: why settle for the pittance The Man will give you in exchange for your vote when you could be out there making a lot more money for yourself using your talent? You could have a lot more bling for just a bit of effort.

Imply the appeal to ego, that you're really better than what The Man thinks of you.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, International Double-Naught Cat Speculator at November 08, 2014 12:18 PM (0HooB)

112 Where's Jeb?

Posted by: BurtTC at November 08, 2014 12:18 PM (Dj0WE)

113 Posted by: Uper from Copper Harbor at November 08, 2014 11:45 AM (/WmRg)
-----

How much snow do you have? I just moved from Marquette. So far I don't miss the snow, just the scenery!

Posted by: Chilling the most at November 08, 2014 12:19 PM (wWs6x)

114 his dad was a congressman. In the 50's that was no big deal.
-------------------------

1963-1981. He was my Senator for a while..

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at November 08, 2014 12:20 PM (F2IAQ)

115 >>Where's Jeb?

In the discard pile with Christie, Romney, and Rubio.

Posted by: Y-not at November 08, 2014 12:20 PM (9BRsg)

116 113
Posted by: Uper from Copper Harbor at November 08, 2014 11:45 AM (/WmRg)

-----



How much snow do you have? I just moved from Marquette. So far I don't miss the snow, just the scenery!

Posted by: Chilling the most at November 08, 2014 12:19 PM (wWs6x)

------

Wow, I missed that name. My family is from Houghton/Hancock originally. My best memories as a kid were going fishing at Grandpa's camp in Lac La Belle.

Posted by: Dave S. at November 08, 2014 12:21 PM (UvR6d)

117 Fredo on TV nominating another one of his progressive wacko thugs to AG

He's listening to his silent 2/3rds. ...who are a composite.

Posted by: t-bird at November 08, 2014 12:21 PM (FcR7P)

118 Speaking of guys under the radar, if John Kasich decides to run in '16 he will be formidable candidate.

Posted by: the guy that moves pianos for a living... at November 08, 2014 12:21 PM (M6Vhk)

119 And Joni Ernst will get hit hard because her ads mentioned farming concerns and were folksy. Once again it's the sneering contempt for fly over folks
Posted by: FenelonSpoke at November 08, 2014 12:15 PM (QlprU)

_____________

If a Republican comes from a poor background he/she is an uneducated hick and can't be president. But if the candidate is Mitt Romney (Harvard MBA, JD, father was governor), the candidate is no good cuz he's an out of touch evil 1%er.



Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at November 08, 2014 12:21 PM (0LHZx)

120 "Haley is attractive without being cute. I think that is in her favor.
She is rather Palinesque, though, in that she has taken on the
Republican establishment in SC which is a very powerful machine. And
she beat them."

Palin's failed attempt to subdue the corrupt inbred AK machine, the Young-Murkowski axis, illustrates the old rule about how if you strike a blow at the king, it had better be a death blow.

Palin started a much needed process of internal state level reform in Alaska, and got a solid foothold for herself, and was building momentum, but then McCain selecting her for VP took her out of the state and out of the loop at a critical time. It let the anti-reform forces regroup and coalesce and focus against her.

So when she got back to AK and attempted to resume her reform agenda as Governor, her enemies were no longer in disarray. Left and right alike, they had formed a united front to destroy her in state politics. Using (from the left) a huge dose of lawfare, and (from the right) a treacherous lack of support during the lawfare assault.

Plus, out of state Obama allies who would never forgive her lese-majeste against The Lightworker in 2008 were pouring money into anti-Palin agitprop (such as promising her daughter's dimwitted ex-boyfriend a movie career if he would claim that Sarah had come on to him).

Palin's huge mob of enemies eventually succeeded and forced her out to the fringes of political life, with the dreaded "quitter" tag around her neck. And Alaska politics are settling back into a cozy insider dominated machine model.

Haley, by comparison, hasn't allowed external cirumstances to distract her, and has gotten much further along with reform in SC than Palin was ever able to do in AK.

And the forces allied against Haley aren't any nicer or more ethical than were the ones against Palin.

It's going to be funny if she's ever on a top level ticket and and someone trots out the increasingly shopworn "War On Wimmenz" trope. Haley can point out that she's had to deal with her enemies alleging bogus adulterous affairs by her, and calling her a whore, and who again exactly is waging said war on women?

Posted by: torquewrench at November 08, 2014 12:22 PM (noWW6)

121 >>Imply the appeal to ego, that you're really better than what The Man thinks of you.

The Gardner ads featured women bluntly saying that it was insulting and disrespectful, which I thought was perfect. It is exactly that, the "there, there, little lady, I'm here to care for your hoo-ha" talk - call it was it is and then make your pitch on the *real* issues that effect all Americans.

Posted by: Lizzy at November 08, 2014 12:22 PM (ABcz/)

122 If it came down to Bayh vs. Jeb I'd probably write in Rick Tempest.

Or Johnny Coldcuts.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, International Double-Naught Cat Speculator at November 08, 2014 12:23 PM (0HooB)

123 Speaking of guys under the radar, if John Kasich decides to run in '16 he will be formidable candidate.
---

Go read the Kasich thread.

He killed himself with Medicaid expansion.

Posted by: Y-not at November 08, 2014 12:24 PM (9BRsg)

124 Palin fans are much like Libertarians. Their candidate has less than 0% chance of winning an election, but they keep the eternal flame of hope burning.

I don't know what will happen in 2016. But I can without hesitation say Sarah Palin will not win the presidency. I wish people would just stop talking about her as a viable candidate. It just ain't happening.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at November 08, 2014 12:25 PM (0LHZx)

125 https://twitter.com/BobbyJindal

Prayer, hunting. A liberal's nightmare.

Posted by: Mama AJ at November 08, 2014 12:25 PM (0xTsz)

126 115 -

Discarded by whom? Certainly not the Gope. And no matter what people are saying/doing two years out, the Gope is going to decide who gets nominated by the R party.

Posted by: BurtTC at November 08, 2014 12:26 PM (Dj0WE)

127 Read this:
http://tinyurl.com/muq76t2

Kasich killed himself.

Link also in nick for you phone people.

Posted by: Y-not at November 08, 2014 12:26 PM (9BRsg)

128 Agree with blaster up on comment #15 -- Republicans have a nice, deep bench, which makes me very happy. Thank you for NOT posting any speeches by RINOS John Kasich and Jeb Bush. Both make me want to puke. Eventually, both will pay for shoving Common Core down our throats. Kasich also screwed Ohioans with Medicaid expansion. He and Jebby Boy are both Progressives.

Posted by: Tired Mom at November 08, 2014 12:26 PM (5gB8R)

129 The Gardner ads featured women bluntly saying that it was insulting and disrespectful, which I thought was perfect. It is exactly that, the "there, there, little lady, I'm here to care for your hoo-ha" talk - call it was it is and then make your pitch on the *real* issues that effect all Americans.
Posted by: Lizzy at November 08, 2014 12:22 PM (ABcz/)

__________

And yet Udall won 66% of the single woman vote, an even higher % than Obama won in 2012, in Colorado.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at November 08, 2014 12:26 PM (0LHZx)

130 How did Susana Martinez snag a campaign ad with Gollum?

Posted by: pep at November 08, 2014 12:26 PM (4nR9/)

131 58 And I don't want to keep sounding all negative on Dr Carson. BUT... I think a lot of people like him because ooh he was in Obama's face!

I think there is a simple reason people see him as ooo in Obama's face. We know what Obama has been doing and see it as negative and what Carson said can be taken as an attack on Obama. Obama's people also know what Obama is doing and see it as awesome but also took Carson speech as a criticism of Obama.

Posted by: buzzion at November 08, 2014 12:27 PM (zt+N6)

132 Discarded by whom? Certainly not the Gope. And no matter what people are
saying/doing two years out, the Gope is going to decide who gets
nominated by the R party.
---

Discarded by the horde.

Again, the point of these thread is to:
(1) force ourselves to really confront these guys' (and gals') records
and
(2) identify the candidates that are acceptable to us as conservatives so we can avoid the friendly fire shit btwn conservatives that leads to a "moderate" getting the nomination.

Posted by: Y-not at November 08, 2014 12:28 PM (9BRsg)

133 It's going to be funny if she's ever on a top level
ticket and and someone trots out the increasingly shopworn "War On
Wimmenz" trope. Haley can point out that she's had to deal with her
enemies alleging bogus adulterous affairs by her, and calling her a
whore, and who again exactly is waging said war on women?



Posted by: torquewrench at November 08, 2014 12:22 PM (noWW6)

------
It's astounding that they couldn't find anyone more believable than Larry Marchant. Also Will Folks is back in the news. Why would anybody want that drama queen anywhere near their campaign is beside me.
http://www.postandcourier.com/article/
20141006/PC1603/141009603


Posted by: Dave S. at November 08, 2014 12:28 PM (UvR6d)

134 >>>>He killed himself with Medicaid expansion.<<<<<

He was re-elected with 63% of the vote. He is going to have a lot of rust belt appeal.

Posted by: the guy that moves pianos for a living... at November 08, 2014 12:29 PM (M6Vhk)

135 I tried Perry at the Tim Cole ceremony and Jindal at CPAC, and they didn't load.

Posted by: m at November 08, 2014 12:29 PM (G891H)

136 I don't think Palin wants to/will run. She's figured out how to best harness the MSM's/progressive's addictive hate for her. She can do more as an outsider, endorsing people like Ted Cruz and lobbing grenades at Obama and others.

Posted by: Lizzy at November 08, 2014 12:30 PM (ABcz/)

137 I don't know what will happen in 2016. But I can without hesitation say
Sarah Palin will not win the presidency. I wish people would just stop
talking about her as a viable candidate. It just ain't happening.
---

Well, most politicians have a core group of highly enthusiastic and semi-delusional supporters.

But I don't think anyone on this thread is talking about Palin as a POTUS prospect. And she did not poll well enough with the horde to make the cut of these posts.

Personally, I don't think Gowdy is a very serious contender, but he polled well enough for us to cover him.

I'd like to replace Gowdy with Pence if the horde is ok with that idea.

Posted by: Y-not at November 08, 2014 12:31 PM (9BRsg)

138 O.k, loading now! I closed the browser and tried again.

Posted by: m at November 08, 2014 12:31 PM (G891H)

139 You can't expand Medicaid and survive the primary. Not against the serious folks in this list.

Posted by: akula51 at November 08, 2014 12:32 PM (R5qgD)

140
134 >>>>He killed himself with Medicaid expansion.<<<<<He was re-elected with 63% of the vote. He is going to have a lot of rust belt appeal.
Posted by: the guy that moves pianos for a living... at November 08, 2014 12:29 PM (M6Vhk)


I'm in Ohio.I voted for Kasich for governor. He does not have my support for president. He'd be much better running against Brown for Senate in 2018.

Posted by: buzzion at November 08, 2014 12:33 PM (zt+N6)

141 Pence is a more serious contender in 2016 than Gowdy, sure. I'd rather see Gowdy SoTH and/or on SCOTUS anyhow.

Posted by: akula51 at November 08, 2014 12:33 PM (R5qgD)

142 >>I tried Perry at the Tim Cole ceremony and Jindal at CPAC, and they didn't load.

Hmmm, they're loading for me.

Maybe you could try launching them from a new window. Search for the speeches on YouTube and look that way?

Posted by: Y-not at November 08, 2014 12:34 PM (9BRsg)

143 >>>>You can't expand Medicaid and survive the primary. Not against the serious folks in this list.<<<<<<

Wasn't Romneycare going to sink Mitt in the primaries?

Posted by: the guy that moves pianos for a living... at November 08, 2014 12:35 PM (M6Vhk)

144 "Imply the appeal to ego, that you're really better than what The Man thinks of you."


What better way to appeal to the young and narcissists (BIRM), "You deserve better."

Posted by: Burn the Witch at November 08, 2014 12:36 PM (xSCb6)

145 >>He was re-elected with 63% of the vote. He is going to have a lot of rust belt appeal.

If I'm going to be stuck with a "RINO," I confess that I'd probably be able go for Rubio. I'm not sure I could vote for any of the others.

Posted by: Y-not at November 08, 2014 12:36 PM (9BRsg)

146 >>Wasn't Romneycare going to sink Mitt in the primaries?

We have a much stronger bench of conservatives this time.

Posted by: Y-not at November 08, 2014 12:37 PM (9BRsg)

147 "Wasn't Romneycare going to sink Mitt in the primaries?


Posted by: the guy that moves pianos for a living... at November 08, 2014 12:35 PM (M6Vhk)"



How'd that work out for him in the General?

Posted by: Burn the Witch at November 08, 2014 12:37 PM (xSCb6)

148 132 -

Good luck then. Because, until it isn't, the R nomination will always be orchestrated by the Gope, and all this discussion of who is or is not acceptable to conservatives will be window dressing.

Frankly, I think it is damn near impossible to get conservatives to agree on any one candidate anyway. And given that the purpose is to somehow pose a threat to the Gope, I think the Gope will have a great deal of say in who those "conservatives" who are jockeying for position are. The opportunists will saddle up, with visions of getting a choice stall in the eventual Gope President's stable.

Posted by: BurtTC at November 08, 2014 12:37 PM (Dj0WE)

149 I like what I know of Pence; I would like if you can provide some coverage of him, Y-Not.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at November 08, 2014 12:37 PM (QlprU)

150 143 Wasn't Romneycare going to sink Mitt in the primaries?

Yeah, no chance he would have made it either against these folks.

Posted by: akula51 at November 08, 2014 12:38 PM (R5qgD)

151 "The beauty of that was that if you saw some part of it that you liked
and wanted to learn and advance, you could easily do so. There were many
ways to learn another skill, and not all of them required a degree. In
fact, real world experience often counted more than a degree, and
knowledge was passed down from one generation to the next through
apprenticeships whether formal or not. Nowadays, it's 'all degrees all the time.'"

There was a brilliant piece over at the American Spectator which points out the little appreciated effect of the black-robed radicals having magicked into existence the "all degrees all the time" situation.

Courtesy of _Griggs v. Duke Power_, one of the worst SCOTUS decisions of the 20th century. Unanimous, strongly precedential in a very damaging way. And man, is that ever saying something when you consider how long and how bad that list of crummy decisions is.

http://preview.tinyurl.com/n76athu


Posted by: torquewrench at November 08, 2014 12:39 PM (noWW6)

152 The next 6-12 months will be very telling. Sure feels like it's shaping up to be Cruz's to lose.

Posted by: akula51 at November 08, 2014 12:39 PM (R5qgD)

153 I'd like to replace Gowdy with Pence if the horde is ok with that idea.
Posted by: Y-not
----------------------

OK

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at November 08, 2014 12:40 PM (F2IAQ)

154 O.T. Even the "New Yorker" cover recognized the Tuesday wave:

http://tinyurl.com/n955ajj

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at November 08, 2014 12:40 PM (QlprU)

155 Scott Walker scheduled to be on Meet the Depressed, tomorrow a.m... Chuck Toad the Wet Sprocket at the helm... that is all ...

Posted by: SE Pa Lurker at November 08, 2014 12:41 PM (llVa4)

156 Y-Not, Pence is much more likely to run, isn't he? Gowdy doesn't seem to have the ego for it...yet!

Posted by: OldDominionMom at November 08, 2014 12:41 PM (Vp1dQ)

157 152 -

I hope you have factored "Disappointment" into your next 6-12 months schedule somewhere.

Posted by: BurtTC at November 08, 2014 12:43 PM (Dj0WE)

158 As much as I like Gowdy, I've not heard even a whisper that he would throw his hat in the ring, so discussion of him as a contender is kinda pointless.


Put me down with Gowdy as AG or another GOP senator.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at November 08, 2014 12:44 PM (xSCb6)

159 >>>>How'd that work out for him in the General?<<<<<

I don't know if it was Romneycare that killed him or not--point is it didn't stop him from winning the nomination.


Posted by: the guy that moves pianos for a living... at November 08, 2014 12:44 PM (M6Vhk)

160 On the Walker front, note that Walker has been really good at getting traction with white working-class Rust Belt voters who don't have splashy educations. Just as he does not.

The same class of voters who saw an Ivy League MBA and Wall Street big-shot asshole financier when they looked at Mitt Romney, especially via the funhouse mirror of Obama's ad assault, and were thus unenthused.

I continue to wonder how well Walker will play outside of the Midwest setting. In, say, Florida.

Posted by: torquewrench at November 08, 2014 12:44 PM (noWW6)

161 Gowdy as SotH would be pretty epic too.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at November 08, 2014 12:45 PM (xSCb6)

162 "Meet the depressed":. Good one!

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at November 08, 2014 12:45 PM (QlprU)

163 OK, folks, I'll do a post next week on Pence -- try to catch him up with the others we've already covered -- then replace Gowdy with Pence in the subsequent posts.

I think Gowdy is amazing at what he's been doing, but I don't think there's even a chance of a Draft Gowdy movement forming -- not for 2016 anyway.

I was tempted to drop Martinez, but I think I'll stick it out. I want to know if she's a RINO. Started seeing her name floated by the Usual Suspects as being a VP necessity b/c of the Latino vote... making me wonder about her conservative creds. So I'll keep her on the list, just for myself.

Posted by: Y-not at November 08, 2014 12:45 PM (9BRsg)

164 Awesome, thanks Y-Not.

Posted by: Nick in South Bend at November 08, 2014 12:47 PM (Ffq1Z)

165 Gowdy as AG

Awesome as well. Definitely.

Posted by: akula51 at November 08, 2014 12:47 PM (R5qgD)

166 You know..., the odd thing is, I keep thinking to myself that people like Love, Gowdy, Haley just do not have the experience required of a President, then I remember who is holding the office now.

That doesn't make it less true, of course, and we ought to labor for the best possible electable choice. Sadly, we all know that the most electable, may not be the best suited to the office. I still believe that Perry would be a very good President, but probably not electable, and I don't think he wants it.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at November 08, 2014 12:48 PM (F2IAQ)

167 Courtesy of _Griggs v. Duke Power_, one of the worst SCOTUS decisions of the 20th century. Unanimous, strongly precedential in a very damaging way. And man, is that ever saying something when you consider how long and how bad that list of crummy decisions is.


I read that too. I was unaware of just how idiotic and out of touch with reality one needs to be to be a justice.

I'd like to see that ruling challenged, along with that ridiculously wrongheaded misinterpretation of the 14th Amendment that created "anchor babies."

Those stupid decisions almost make me wish I were a lawyer.

Almost...

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, International Double-Naught Cat Speculator at November 08, 2014 12:48 PM (0HooB)

168 >>>>I'm in Ohio.I voted for Kasich for governor. He does not have my support for president. <<<<

Really?

John Kasich vs any Dem for pres and you would sit it out?

Posted by: the guy that moves pianos for a living... at November 08, 2014 12:48 PM (M6Vhk)

169 Yeah, I think there will be an American of Hispanic descent somewhere on the ticket.

Posted by: akula51 at November 08, 2014 12:48 PM (R5qgD)

170 I think Walker's very Wisconsin accent would be held against him. It is a stupid thing, but I could see it as a problem.

Posted by: Nick in South Bend at November 08, 2014 12:48 PM (Ffq1Z)

171 "I don't know if it was Romneycare that killed him or not--point is it didn't stop him from winning the nomination."


It was Obama's Achilles heel (with apologies to Achilles) and Romney was powerless to exploit it.


As a result, Romney was utterly ineffectual as a candidate.


And it showed.


Obama won the general when Romney won the primary.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at November 08, 2014 12:48 PM (xSCb6)

172 Gowdy as AG

Awesome as well. Definitely.
Posted by: akula51
-----------------------------

It would be like turning on the lights in a roach-infested kitchen.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at November 08, 2014 12:49 PM (F2IAQ)

173 white working-class Rust Belt voters who don't have splashy educations. Just as he does not.
---

Can I say something here?

Walker is not a working class guy. Nor does he have a working class education. He went to Marquette. He just didn't finish. And his only work experience was in marketing (for a couple of years).

That narrative about Walker being the Working Man's hero irritates me.

He may be a great nominee. I'm not discounting that possibility. But his life story is not Palin's.

Posted by: Y-not at November 08, 2014 12:50 PM (9BRsg)

174 Troy Gowdy, AG. The busiest man in Washington.

Posted by: akula51 at November 08, 2014 12:50 PM (R5qgD)

175 I think Walker's very Wisconsin accent would be held against him. It is a stupid thing, but I could see it as a problem.
------------------

Have you heard Hillary's 'southern' accent? I hope that gets a lot of air play if she runs.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at November 08, 2014 12:51 PM (F2IAQ)

176 Yea. HIllary's southern accent. Her "black" accent. Her "loving woman" accent. Its almost like she puts on an act and panders to the crowd she is in front of.

Posted by: Nick in South Bend at November 08, 2014 12:52 PM (Ffq1Z)

177 Give it up on Kasich. If you want to read about him further, you'll have to look elsewhere.

He's a Beltway creation who is now governor of a state that he probably couldn't carry in the general and who has betrayed conservatives. Heritage, CATO, and the rest would do everything in their power to tank him.

Posted by: Y-not at November 08, 2014 12:52 PM (9BRsg)

178 John Kasich vs any Dem for pres and you would sit it out?
Posted by: the guy that moves pianos for a living
-----------------

We hear that here all of the time.
To, you know, 'teach the GOPe a lesson', by allowing the election of anti-Americans.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at November 08, 2014 12:53 PM (F2IAQ)

179 If I'm going to be stuck with a "RINO," I confess
that I'd probably be able go for Rubio. I'm not sure I could vote for
any of the others.


Posted by: Y-not


I just don't get that. Not just because he was pantsed by Chuck Schumer and has flailed around like a fish on a dock ever since, but because I've never been even remotely impressed with anything he's said or done. What is it that you see in him?

Posted by: pep at November 08, 2014 12:53 PM (4nR9/)

180 >>>>Obama won the general when Romney won the primary.<<<<

I agree with that. I just think it was less Romneycare and more lack of blue collar appeal that doomed him.

Posted by: the guy that moves pianos for a living... at November 08, 2014 12:54 PM (M6Vhk)

181 OK, it's naptime for Bonzo, two gigs tonight.

Y'all have fun and try not to trash the place, 'k?

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, International Double-Naught Cat Speculator at November 08, 2014 12:56 PM (0HooB)

182 I agree with that. I just think it was less Romneycare and more lack of blue collar appeal that doomed him.
Posted by: the guy
--------------------------

My source tells me he never paid any taxes.

Posted by: Harry Reid, unchallenged by the media at November 08, 2014 12:56 PM (F2IAQ)

183 We hear that here all of the time.
------

Except no one heard it this time because that's not what Buzzion said.

Posted by: Nigel West Dickens at November 08, 2014 12:56 PM (/nR7C)

184 Walker will be fun to watch w/ Chuckie. He manages to stay calm under assault. I really think that after 8 long years of being agitated, most in this country will vote for someone calm.
Thank you Y-not for all this work!

Posted by: OldDominionMom at November 08, 2014 12:56 PM (Vp1dQ)

185 I just don't get that. Not just because he was pantsed by Chuck Schumer
and has flailed around like a fish on a dock ever since, but because
I've never been even remotely impressed with anything he's said or done.
What is it that you see in him?
---

Oh, I wouldn't be happy about it...

The advantage of Rubio over Bush, Romney, or Christie (or Kasich, apparently) is that he's trainable. He did try to make amends with respect to the immigration thing. He's decent on foreign policy. And he brings an "it" factor that the others don't b/c of his age and his life experience.

He's more of a blank slate that ppl can project their "hopes" on that the other four.

It's really clear Mitt has not learned from his defeat and will not listen to the base given that he is urging Jeb to run. That DQs both of them.

Christie has too many YouTube moments that would sink him with Indies... and the 2nd Amendment folks won't go for him.

Kasich brings absolutely nothing in terms of charisma or life experiences and screwed the pooch on his campaign promise.

So Rubio is the last man standing for me.

Posted by: Y-not at November 08, 2014 12:57 PM (9BRsg)

186 "I just think it was less Romneycare and more lack of blue collar appeal that doomed him."


Guess we'll have to agree to disagree on that one. Without the only effective offensive weapon, he only had a defense. And as tired as the analogy is, you still can't win when all you play is defense.


Sure, the attacks against him were painfully stupid, but he couldn't use the one thing that polled well against Obama.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at November 08, 2014 12:58 PM (xSCb6)

187 Since when did this blog decide to boycott Rand Paul? No mention?

Posted by: Crashpanic at November 08, 2014 12:58 PM (w+LSl)

188 >>Except no one heard it this time because that's not what Buzzion said.

This.

Posted by: Y-not at November 08, 2014 12:59 PM (9BRsg)

189 For the record I don't really have a favorite going in to the primaries right now, or to the extent I do it is Scott Walker.

All I am trying to say about Kasich is that if he decides to run he is likely to do well--the guy has media skills, experience inside and outside Washington, a governorship and a landslide re-election under his belt, a hot wife and telegenic daughters, and it is probably a mistake to write him off or ignore him because he doesn't warm the cockles of the Horde.

Posted by: the guy that moves pianos for a living... at November 08, 2014 12:59 PM (M6Vhk)

190 "Nor does he have a working class education. He went to Marquette. He just didn't finish."

Sure, but to the typical voter, what that boils down to in one sound bite is "not a college graduate", and there are a bunch of ordinary voters in America who feel that elite college grads have been screwing them over economically.

One Walker problem: can't recall which member of the Horde said it, but after Walker's last debate with Mary Burke, the comment was to the effect that on stage had been two people who both have a terrible dearth of personal charisma.

I would feel better about Walker if he had put away someone who did have a powerfully charismatic demeanor.

Posted by: torquewrench at November 08, 2014 01:01 PM (noWW6)

191 >>Since when did this blog decide to boycott Rand Paul? No mention?

He was covered weeks ago. He didn't poll well enough to do these more in depth threads.

Posted by: Y-not at November 08, 2014 01:02 PM (9BRsg)

192 "Since when did this blog decide to boycott Rand Paul? No mention?"


Really now? I wasn't aware the blog had called for an actual boycott of Paul.


Interesting.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at November 08, 2014 01:02 PM (xSCb6)

193 Oops, forgot my /s tag.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at November 08, 2014 01:03 PM (xSCb6)

194 All Rand needs to do is produce a birth certificate that show's Ron's not his dad. No sweat.

Posted by: akula51 at November 08, 2014 01:04 PM (R5qgD)

195
168 >>>>I'm in Ohio.I voted for Kasich for governor. He does not have my support for president. <<<<Really?John Kasich vs any Dem for pres and you would sit it out?
Posted by: the guy that moves pianos for a living... at November 08, 2014 12:48 PM (M6Vhk)


We're talking Primaries here. You keep on bringing up primaries and now you want to talk general election.

Posted by: buzzion at November 08, 2014 01:04 PM (zt+N6)

196 Posted by: Nick in South Bend at November 08, 2014 12:48 PM (Ffq1Z)

His accent, his bald spot, his lack of a college degree, the fact that his wife isn't a size 4 (neither is Michele, but that's different - of course), his complete lack of charisma, no compelling personal story - all those things would be held against him. Now it might be possible that in 2016, the country will be ready for the anti-Obama, and Walker as a candidate is as anti-Obama as you can imagine. It would be like electing Ward Cleaver to the WH and after the "interesting times" Obama has put us though, that might be appealing. But I still cynically think that today's appearance and celebrity obsessed Americans will reject Walker as too dull and drab.

And as for Ben Carson - well, I like and admire the man, but it's pretty clear he has the "Dr. God" syndrome that infects most successful surgeons. I know quite a few and even the pleasant and friendly ones have an superabundance of ego. They think they're the smartest ones in the room - because, unlike Obama, they usually really are. I can see Carson thinking that after performing complex surgeries, like separating Siamese twins joined at the head, heck, how hard can being president be? He doesn't get that being a successful pol and chief executive requires an entirely different skill set.

I've always liked Jindal, but from what I've heard from Louisianians, he's been a disappointment down there. I don't know how much appeal a wonk like Jindal has either.

I'm liking Haley, but I need to know more about her.

Posted by: Donna &&&&&& V. (brandishing ampersands) at November 08, 2014 01:04 PM (+XMAD)

197 Kasich ...has
media ... a hot wife and telegenic
daughters


**Google wonders why there is a sudden surge of searches on Kasich's hot wife and telegenic daughters**

Posted by: pep at November 08, 2014 01:04 PM (4nR9/)

198 And I think if you're a Governor with Pres. ambitions start making the youtube videos now. Mayor DeBlasio is apparently using taxpayer funds to to get videos made with people gushingly reporting what a great Mayor he is- when he isn't a good Mayor at all and even some of the people who voted for him are seeing it.

Do the PR. Do it early. Sadly, it's all about crafting persona and getting it across in media. At least Walker has an impressive background to go on.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at November 08, 2014 01:06 PM (QlprU)

199 186 -

It's also true that Romney's biggest problem with the 47% isn't that he isn't a 47%er, it's that he would on more than one occasion, make statements that appeared to be actively contemptuous and dismissive of the 47%.

I don't know if it was some sort of blind spot for him, or if he had some negative experience with enough free-loaders in his day, but he just could not bring himself to say anything remotely that would resonate with these people, and while it is objectively true that he has done more in his lifetime to help these people than Obama ever did, he had nothing to say to them.

That was his fault. No one else's.

Posted by: BurtTC at November 08, 2014 01:06 PM (Dj0WE)

200 Apparently Y-not needs to mention that this is a continuing series of posts and previous posts and their discussions are going to influence who is going to be talked about later on. You know lest someone get butt hurt that the acorn off the giant nut tree isn't mentioned.

Posted by: buzzion at November 08, 2014 01:06 PM (zt+N6)

201 Gardening thread up.

Posted by: Y-not at November 08, 2014 01:08 PM (9BRsg)

202 It's also true that Romney's biggest problem with the 47% isn't that he
isn't a 47%er, it's that he would on more than one occasion, make
statements that appeared to be actively contemptuous and dismissive of
the 47%.
---

I agree with that.

Posted by: Y-not at November 08, 2014 01:09 PM (9BRsg)

203 End Withholding, let the American people decide - violently.

Posted by: Jean at November 08, 2014 01:11 PM (TETYm)

204 "It's also true that Romney's biggest problem with the 47% isn't that he isn't a 47%er, it's that he would on more than one occasion, make statements that appeared to be actively contemptuous and dismissive of the 47%."


Exactly.


That gets into the very legitimate criticism of his political skill. He would say things like that and put himself into defensive positions.


Which is to say, he has very little political skill at all.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at November 08, 2014 01:12 PM (xSCb6)

205 Can I say something here?

Walker is not a
working class guy. Nor does he have a working class education. He went
to Marquette. He just didn't finish. And his only work experience was in
marketing (for a couple of years).

That narrative about Walker being the Working Man's hero irritates me.

He may be a great nominee. I'm not discounting that possibility. But his life story is not Palin's.


Posted by: Y-not at November 08, 2014 12:50 PM (9BRsg)


------

The greater point is he has demonstrated blue collar appeal. I'm saying he doesn't fit neatly into any box, but each faction on our side can see things they like in him, and that has value. Dem's win by caricature. Their playbook...
1. Dumb hick2. Rich asshole3. Evil genius
They're down to #3 now, right from the jump, as far as I can see.


As a result he doesn't need to be the guy that runs the ridiculous ads in the plaid shirt tossing hay onto his truck to show he's one of them. I don't think he'll have to pander to the monied groups as hard as others might either.


The Midwest is turning. Hell, it basically has turned. Walker helped a lot with that.

Posted by: Dave S. at November 08, 2014 01:13 PM (UvR6d)

206 All Rand needs to do is produce a birth certificate that show's Ron's not his dad. No sweat.
Posted by: akula
---------------------------

I understand that delaying the release of that, and producing an affidavit works wonderfully as a tool to recruit the Left.

Posted by: Harry Reid, unchallenged by the media at November 08, 2014 01:13 PM (F2IAQ)

207 BTW, Jindal absolutely crushed his opponent for re-election, so I'm not sure how unpopular he is in Louisiana.

Posted by: Y-not at November 08, 2014 01:17 PM (9BRsg)

208 "Rand Paul? No mention?"

Can't speak for anyone but myself, but Luap Nard knocked himself down about two thousand slots in my Presidential ranking when he started railing against voter ID as "stupid" and "crazy".

Posted by: torquewrench at November 08, 2014 01:20 PM (noWW6)

209 The 40-year-old Republican overwhelmed nine
competitors in the open primary, where a candidate wins the race
outright if he or she receives more than 50 percent of the vote. With 99
percent of precincts reporting, Jindal had received about 66 percent of
the total vote.His closest competitor, Tara
Hollis, a Democrat from north Louisiana, garnered nearly 18 percent of
the total vote. All of the other candidates were in single digits.

Posted by: Y-not at November 08, 2014 01:22 PM (9BRsg)

210 "1. Dumb hick2. Rich asshole3. Evil genius
They're down to #3 now, right from the jump, as far as I can see. "

Oh, they'll go Dumb Hick with Walker, although as Y-Not pointed out, he's basically a middle class suburbanite. The reason for that is although the left has tried mightily to portray him as 'evil genius," that is manifestly ridiculous if you look and listen to him for half a minute. It's casting Ozzie Nelson in Ricardo Montablan's role in "The Wrath of Khan." Tough to imagine Walker cackling and rubbing his hands together in glee at the thought of orphans starving.

Posted by: Donna &&&&&& V. (brandishing ampersands) at November 08, 2014 01:24 PM (+XMAD)

211 Can't speak for anyone but myself, but Luap Nard knocked himself down about two thousand slots in my Presidential ranking when he started railing against voter ID as "stupid" and "crazy".

Posted by: torquewrench at November 08, 2014 01:20 PM (noWW6)

Yep. I like many things Rand has said, but the apple really did not fall far from the tree.

Posted by: Donna &&&&&& V. (brandishing ampersands) at November 08, 2014 01:25 PM (+XMAD)

212 Posted by: Y-not at November 08, 2014 01:22 PM (9BRsg)

My bad then. I seem to remember Louisianians here complaining that Jindal's performance in office had been disappointing. I am more than happy to be wrong about that, since I've always liked him a lot.

Posted by: Donna &&&&&& V. (brandishing ampersands) at November 08, 2014 01:28 PM (+XMAD)

213 I like Walker. But I doubt he runs if Jeb does.

I dont think Romney, Kasich, Rubio, Walker or Christie will run if Jeb is serious about running. At least, nothing more than a vanity run to make sure certain other candidates dont catch fire.

Posted by: Nick in South Bend at November 08, 2014 01:28 PM (Ffq1Z)

214 Yeah, Rand is unacceptable to me.

Posted by: Y-not at November 08, 2014 01:28 PM (9BRsg)

215 I don't think anyone can beat Hillary. I hope I'm wrong. But it will take a complete Hillary implosion for her to lose.

That being said, my idea candidates would be Cruz, Paul, Jindal, Perry with a either of them as Prez and as VP.

Posted by: Mr. Moo Moo at November 08, 2014 01:29 PM (0LHZx)

216 My bad then. I seem to remember Louisianians here complaining that Jindal's performance in office had been disappointing.
--

Well, he ran against 8 or 9 other candidates and it was 2011, so you may still be right.

I heard he had to reverse course on Common Core -- but he seems to have done so with gusto. So perhaps that had bothered conservatives (before he came out against it).

Louisiana seems to be a purple state, which makes it an interesting place from which a nominee might come... sort of like the WI and OH arguments ppl make for those governors.

Posted by: Y-not at November 08, 2014 01:31 PM (9BRsg)

217 215 I don't think anyone can beat Hillary. I hope I'm wrong. But it will take a complete Hillary implosion for her to lose.

Hillary, unlike Bill, is not likable. She has tons of baggage. I doubt she appeals much to young people. I'm not dismissing her because certainly the media will work overtime to get her elected if she's the Dem nominee, but I don't think she's unstoppable by any means.

Posted by: Donna &&&&&& V. (brandishing ampersands) at November 08, 2014 01:39 PM (+XMAD)

218 Gov. Jindal has made lots of cuts in spending. There's definitely been some grumbling about that. See here, for example:

http://tinyurl.com/l74w56f

Esp. the post called "Lower than Obama" and the ones below that.

Cutting spending is a good thing, so I can't hold that against him and actually like it. I have no idea whether some of the other education stuff is good or not.

Posted by: Mama AJ at November 08, 2014 01:40 PM (0xTsz)

219 I like Jindal. Does anyone think his views on exorcism/more traditional conservative catholic teachings will effect him in the general election?

Posted by: Nick in South Bend at November 08, 2014 01:44 PM (Ffq1Z)

220 Well, if Perry can be villified for a racist rock, you know they will try. Esp. with the whole banning birth control crap.

Posted by: Mama AJ at November 08, 2014 01:53 PM (0xTsz)

221 Posted by: Nick in South Bend at November 08, 2014 01:44 PM (Ffq1Z)

Oh, I'm sure they'll try to make hay of that stuff. (I can hear Jon Stewart and Bill Maher snickering as I type.) But it's old news - it came out when he was running for gov. - and so I assume he has figured out how to address the matter if it comes up.

Since Jindal has an Ivy League decree, was a Rhodes Scholar, and worked for McKinsey (creds normally beloved by the elite), it'll be hard for them to put him in the "dumb hick" slot. They dismissed Dubya's Ivy League creds because they claimed he was a legacy admission. They can't do that with Jindal. He is very obviously not stupid.

Posted by: Donna &&&&&& V. (brandishing ampersands) at November 08, 2014 01:53 PM (+XMAD)

222 Mike Hammer
How does Haley not have the reqd experience?
She has more than Romney did imho.

Posted by: Y-not on the phone at November 08, 2014 01:59 PM (9BRsg)

223 I am not sure if this linky will work, but apparently a really smart Dem on Mary's campaign in LA tweeted, wondering what Dr. Cassidy was doing after hurricanes Katrina and Rita.

Here is Dr. Cassidy's answer (bwhahaha):

http://tinyurl.com/olwmree

Whoopsie!

Posted by: ChristyBlinky, Detective of infectious disease czarina at November 08, 2014 02:06 PM (dMEBN)

224 Yeah that was quite the goof!

Posted by: Y-not on the phone at November 08, 2014 02:10 PM (9BRsg)

225 There is a photo of our brand new potential AG on Yahoo today. It looks as if she may be a chia pet with the gigantic plant behind her on the mantel. Odufus is standing next to her counting down the minutes until tee time.

I am still feeling a little euphoric from Tuesday. Or it may be low blood sugar from not eating lunch. Whatever!

Posted by: ChristyBlinky, Detective of infectious disease czarina at November 08, 2014 02:13 PM (dMEBN)

226 Posted by: ChristyBlinky, Detective of infectious disease czarina at November 08, 2014 02:06 PM (dMEBN)

That is hilarious!

Jeez, don't these people do even minimal research before tweeting out their little bits of bird poop?

That's on a par with the reporter who questioned Rand Paul's criticisms of how Ebola was being dealt with by the admin because hey, who does he think he is, a doctor or something?

Posted by: Donna &&&&&& V. (brandishing ampersands) at November 08, 2014 02:15 PM (+XMAD)

227 Nood, WeirdDave post

Posted by: Y-not at November 08, 2014 02:21 PM (9BRsg)

228 "The advantage of Rubio over Bush, Romney, or Christie (or Kasich, apparently) is that he's trainable."

As the last six years have shown, the White House is a lousy place for on the job training....

Posted by: richard mcenroe at November 08, 2014 02:27 PM (XO6WW)

229 "We're beyond words and ballot boxes now. We're in uncharted territory even with thousands of years of written history to guide us."

No, we're not. We're standing right on the banks of the Rubicon...

Posted by: richard mcenroe at November 08, 2014 02:29 PM (XO6WW)

230 As the last six years have shown, the White House is a lousy place for on the job training....
---

I mean trainable/bendable on policy -- during the primary.

Mitt, Jeb, and Christie clearly will not listen to the base. I've seen some signs that Rubio would. Also, Rubio - not being richer than God or completely plugged into the DC-NYC power brokers - kind of needs us more than the others do, imho.

But I'm not lobbying for it. Just saying he's the least objectionable of the "RINOs" in my book.


Thanks, Everyone, for your participation. See you next week.

Posted by: Y-not at November 08, 2014 02:31 PM (9BRsg)

231 Y-not, I like Rubio, in spite of his branding and his idiotic joining of the Gang of 8 crapola. Trainable is a good term. Oh, he heard from me, honey.

I have a question I hope someone here can answer and, I hope, that the talking heads someday mention it as it is pretty simple if it is "unprecedented:"

Le Roi Barking Mole sent a "secret" letter to Iran's "Supreme Leader." Now, to me, this seems like a totally and really bad bit of governance. Secret, as behind Congress' back and leader's backs. Then I read/heard that this is about the fourth time he has pulled a stunt like this with Iran (I think it might have been Senator Graham saying this last night on Greta-----he may irritate the crap out of me on immigration but I listen to him regarding military matters. He is enraged. I read Mitt Romney was "speechless" in learning of this move by Burump.

Ok all of that aside: it seemed, to me, rather traitorous to be playing pattycake with the enemy and nukes. But, what do I know? I know I said this one thing should be shouted all over the land among the many impeachable items of "not protecting his country and, in fact, possibly betraying his country."

You history buffs: Can you recall secret deals like this with other presidents? Behind the backs of Congress with foreign enemies of state? This seems like one of Joe Biden's BFD's to me. Oh! This reminds me of the news last night, in which it was reported, by the AP, that Le Pomous Pretender cut off ole Joe when he tried to speak at the strained luncheon pow-wow of parties yesterday. Immediately the WH sent Bret Bauer a memo that "that did not happen." Which made me laugh and say, "Oh, yes it did if they are denying it!" bwhahaha

But, back to the question: "Has it ever been recorded or noted that any other US President has sent "secret" letters to foreign leaders? Oh, wait, I just found this, and it looks to have worked really well, too:

http://tinyurl.com/8gug67z

And, here is the Hitler mocking of Roosevelt's secret letter:

http://tinyurl.com/ovn2rkd

Posted by: ChristyBlinky, Detective of infectious disease czarina at November 08, 2014 03:01 PM (dMEBN)

232 @36

The trick is to choose someone suitably conservative, who'll energize our base but not the opposition's.

We also want to avoid s proven loser (though I suspect he'll be the nominee again if he runs).

The winning formula is Competence, Experience, Conservative, Exciting.

I vote Nikki Haley.

By the way, I'd hit that like Ricki Ricardo banging out Babaloo with a smoking crack pipe stuck up his ass.

But that's just how I roll.

Posted by: CoolCzech at November 08, 2014 05:51 PM (rTJTz)

233 @231

It's not unlikely FDR was planning with Churchil for the USA to join WW2, Pearl Harbor or no Pearl Harbor.

Posted by: CoolCzech at November 08, 2014 06:00 PM (ABACR)

234 I continue to wonder how well Walker will play outside of the Midwest setting. In, say, Florida.
Posted by: torquewrench at November 08, 2014 12:44 PM (noWW6)

A significant population of the Midwest retires to Florida or Arizona.

Posted by: bossy barbara at November 08, 2014 08:17 PM (79RKq)

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