Sunday Morning Book Thread 9-13-2026 [Sabrina Chase]

Writer getting ideas, 1947, colorized

Welcome to the Book Thread, Guest Poster edition! I will be your host as we explore all sorts of book-related topics. All usual Book Thread rules are incorporated by reference (pets, beverage, clothing covering the lower limbs, etc.) with the special Sabrina Chase exemption for those stylish persons preferring kilts.

As I may have mentioned previously, I am a writer. I thought the esteemed Morons of the Book Thread might be interested in some of the inner workings of the authorial process, so now it is time for some Dark Writer Secrets, or ...

How Writers Get Their Ideas

Writers have lots of ideas. Ideas are cheap and plentiful. Ideas that we think we can write a good story about in the time available are...less so. The non-writing public, not seeing the whining and crying and hair-pulling we do at the computer, think it is just sitting back and thinking Big Thinks and fame and fortune arrive by cargo ship.

I have performed as a Tame Writer for high school English classes, and it is all very well to see a real breathing person who has written a book. That gets me polite interest. But what gets them enthused is when I demonstrate, right there in front of them, how to get a story idea.

What I usually do is ask them to give me three nouns. Any nouns. And then I show them the brainstorming process that gets me to a narrative that holds together as a story, including tossing out the first or even second idea, because if it was easy for me to think of then someone has probably already done it and better than I can. No, I want the unusual, oh yeah that's Sabrina for you story!

One I remember went like this:

Nouns: Seahawks, Spongebob Squarepants, and Paris (the kids were giggling with glee when they came up with these too)

What I came up with: The NFL has decreed that all team mascots must be real things, and if they are not the team merchandise will be immediately confiscated resulting in mass nudity in Seattle, because nobody has seen a Seahawk! But to the rescue comes the Cousteau society (based in Paris) seeking a mysterious being named Spongebob Squarepants and very knowledgeable about sea life, who can find an actual Seahawk to prove it is real!

They thought this was hilarious.

That said, I don't usually come up with my book ideas with the three-noun method. It's more of a writing exercise to get the writer out of the depressive fits we are prone to. My method is to create movie scenes in my head while listening to music, and create plots from that.

I will confess my Argonauts of Space series started off as revenge for Pluto getting demoted from planet to planetoid, though. I thought, "what would make them beg to call it a planet again... ooh, I know! It's really an ancient alien spaceship! Hmm. And why is it there? It got left as debris after a war." And it all sort of cascaded from there ... and because I am what is politely called a "discovery writer" (but what writers call "pantser", as in "seat of the pants") by the end of the first book I had space Neanderthals and machine telepaths and the vital importance of corn muffins. I dunno about my mind, I just visit...

Posted by: Open Blogger at 09:00 AM

Comments

(Jump to bottom of comments)

1 Tolle Lege

Posted by: Skip at September 13, 2026 08:59 AM (Ia/+0)

2 Diagon Alley maybe.

Posted by: Bryce at September 13, 2026 09:00 AM (5GspC)

3 NYC, John Deere, Twinkie

Posted by: fd at September 13, 2026 09:02 AM (MWfyi)

4 A writing professor buddy of mine has suggested to his students that one way to become a good writer is to play role-playing games.

That's a collaborative story-telling exercise.

I know of several fantasy writers who have used this method to great success (Raymond E. Feist, Steven Erickson & Ian C. Esslemont, Margaret Weis & Tracy Hickman, to name a few)

Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at September 13, 2026 09:02 AM (FZ29D)

5 I read once in a book review column that "Blank paper is God's way of showing you that it's not so easy to be God."

Posted by: Weak Geek at September 13, 2026 09:03 AM (AAaj3)

6 Besides still reading Winston Churchill The Gathering Storm, at Sept 1938 in the book, found my reading glasses after being in a pocket, go through wash, hung outside for hours then in dryer heard a clanging. They seem fine so good to go and cleaned somewhat.

Posted by: Skip at September 13, 2026 09:04 AM (Ia/+0)

7 Boookkkkzzzz!

Posted by: vmom deport deport stab deport at September 13, 2026 09:05 AM (Ydd86)

8 Good Sunday morning, horde!

I love that picture. But I'm a Cold War spy novel aficionado, so it would appeal. Because that's what it looks like.

Posted by: Dash my lace wigs! at September 13, 2026 09:06 AM (CjHsb)

9 Honestly, some ideas just appear in my head. Either a whole story, or parts of one: how to solve a problem in the story, or plot points to expand the story. Usually used when I think the word count isn't going to meet the standard for the genre.

Posted by: OrangeEnt at September 13, 2026 09:06 AM (1Ff7Z)

10 I've been enjoying booktoober Jake's channel "BookMortem", in which he explores the pulpier shores of SF and Fantasyland.

"9 So Bad, they're Good Science Fiction Books you've probably never heard of"

https://tinyurl.com/h29uxu7z

The Red Planet
Invaders from Rigel
Man of Many Minds
Genesis Five
Shoot at the Moon
Secret of the Black Planet
Night Mare
The Four Day Weekend
Galaxy 666

The joke's on you, Jake. I have some of these! I dug out "The Robot Brains", "Secret of the Black Planet", "Man of Many Minds", and "Invaders From Rigel" for my next reads.

"The Robot Brains", by British SF author Sydney J. Bounds, was written in the 50's but feels like it's from the 30's. Top scientists on the cusp of technological breakthroughs are being decapitated by rayguns. There are evil giant-brained dwarves and a modern day Mongolian khan who wants to rule the world.

It's really bad, but at least it doesn't take 500 pages to stink up the joint.

Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes at September 13, 2026 09:06 AM (kpS4V)

11 Morning, Sabrina.

Howdy, Horde.

If memory serves, Harlan Ellison used to answer the where do you get your ideas question by saying there was an idea service in Schenectady and he sent them $$$ and they sent him a fresh six-pack of ideas every week. He also said that he was frequently asked for the address.

Posted by: Just Some Guy at September 13, 2026 09:07 AM (q3u5l)

12 3 NYC, John Deere, Twinkie
Posted by: fd at September 13, 2026 09:02 AM (MWfyi)

Midnight Cowboy has already been written.

Posted by: Dash my lace wigs! at September 13, 2026 09:07 AM (CjHsb)

13 I love that picture. But I'm a Cold War spy novel aficionado, so it would appeal. Because that's what it looks like.
Posted by: Dash my lace wigs! at September 13, 2026 09:06 AM (CjHsb)

Oh, have you read my cold-war era short story? "A Piece of Cake?"

Posted by: OrangeEnt at September 13, 2026 09:08 AM (1Ff7Z)

14 Marketing literature can be tricky. You have to sell the book but not give away the whole story. That's the case with "The Mugger," an early 87th Precinct police procedural by Ed McBain. Some creep is robbing and punching women, then bowing and thanking them. That's all in Chapter One. Meanwhile, the text on the page before the title page tells of a teenage girl who's been clubbed to death. I assume the mugger has crossed the line. Then again, maybe not?

By the way, Inspector Jacques Clouseau comes out triumphant in "The Pink Panther Gets Lucky" through sheer dumb luck. Definitely dumb.

Posted by: Weak Geek at September 13, 2026 09:08 AM (AAaj3)

15 Oh, have you read my cold-war era short story? "A Piece of Cake?"
Posted by: OrangeEnt at September 13, 2026 09:08 AM (1Ff7Z)

I don't think so, do you have a link?

Posted by: Dash my lace wigs! at September 13, 2026 09:09 AM (CjHsb)

16 If memory serves, Harlan Ellison used to answer the where do you get your ideas question by saying there was an idea service in Schenectady and he sent them $$$ and they sent him a fresh six-pack of ideas every week. He also said that he was frequently asked for the address.
Posted by: Just Some Guy at September 13, 2026 09:07 AM (q3u5l)
---
That sounds exactly like an idea Ellison would use in a story...

Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at September 13, 2026 09:09 AM (FZ29D)

17 "Midnight Cowboy has already been written.
Posted by: Dash my lace wigs! "

Posted by: fd at September 13, 2026 09:09 AM (MWfyi)

18 Good morning fellow Book Threadists. I hope everyone had a great week of reading. Or listening if your books are recorded.

Posted by: JTB at September 13, 2026 09:10 AM (yTvNw)

19 For a change, I'm wearing pants. I'm about to head out to an arts festival, so my beloved book thread robe would not suffice.

Tally Ho!

Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes at September 13, 2026 09:11 AM (kpS4V)

20 Not familiar with Book Mortem, but I'm pretty sure I read Man of Many Minds during my misspent youth when I was devouring all the paperback sf I could scrounge up. Recall nothing about it, but that title sounds like one I had in the pile.

Posted by: Just Some Guy at September 13, 2026 09:11 AM (q3u5l)

21 From the dank alleyway of a run down city:

"Psst... Hey buddy, want to buy a couple of ideas?"

Posted by: Thomas Paine at September 13, 2026 09:11 AM (0U5gm)

22 From the dank alleyway of a run down city:

"Psst... Hey buddy, want to buy a couple of ideas?"
Posted by: Thomas Paine at September 13, 2026 09:11 AM (0U5gm)
----
Sesame Street used to have a sketch where a shady-looking character would try to sell letters of the alphabet to one of the regular characters (Ernie? Bert?)..

Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at September 13, 2026 09:15 AM (FZ29D)

23 I don't think so, do you have a link?
Posted by: Dash my lace wigs! at September 13, 2026 09:09 AM (CjHsb)

Rejected by all so far. I can email it to you, if you want.

Posted by: OrangeEnt at September 13, 2026 09:15 AM (1Ff7Z)

24 4 "Perfessor" Squirrel
A writing professor buddy of mine has suggested to his students that one way to become a good writer is to play role-playing games.

It is a *great* way to learn to write in-depth (as opposed to paper cutout) characters. If the DM insists you roleplay, that is. I also participated, as a GM, in a large live-action roleplaying game where the participants picked their own character and we, poor sods, had to come up with storylines for ALL of them. Together. Over a hundred. Really built up my writing muscles with that one!

Posted by: Sabrina Chase at September 13, 2026 09:15 AM (k+oif)

25 Reading "Infinity Upgrade" by JN Chaney and Rachel Aukes. In a planetary system essentially owned by an evil, murderous corporation, a regular Joe has a self-aware AI downloaded into his brain by a dying rebel inventor, and much mayhem and hijinks ensue.

Not bad so far, though I do grow weary of the evil, murderous corporation trope. Chaney has so many different sci fi series that I doubt I could read his entire output if I lived another 50 years.

Posted by: Sharkman at September 13, 2026 09:18 AM (/RHNq)

26 I don't delve into the fantasy genre much, but my offspring and I have a sort of family book club, and they've had me reading a series by Robert Jackson Bennett.

The first installment is The Tainted Cup. It's a genre mashup, because it's fantasy setting, but with a murder mystery/detective theme, so it's in a class of its own.

There is the obligatory gay character, which I'm sure had to happen to get the thing published. It's not in your face all the time, so tolerable.

Anyway. We're reading the third and latest in the series now, A Trade of Blood. It's a tale of feuding families, lost fortunes, and a unique and creepy biological warfare.

Posted by: Dash my lace wigs! at September 13, 2026 09:19 AM (CjHsb)

27 Ellison wasn't really joking. Back in the pulp era there were classified ads in the magazines for books of story ideas. "Plotto" by William Wallace Cook was one. You could buy ideas, hire a ghost writer to turn them into stories, and they pay a vanity press to publish them.

Posted by: Trimegistus at September 13, 2026 09:19 AM (78a2H)

28 "Once participated" in an RPG.

This indicates that the group fell apart. What happened?

There's a germ of a story idea.

Posted by: Weak Geek at September 13, 2026 09:19 AM (AAaj3)

29 That said, I don't usually come up with my book ideas with the three-noun method. It's more of a writing exercise to get the writer out of the depressive fits we are prone to. My method is to create movie scenes in my head while listening to music, and create plots from that.

I'm constantly (or nearly so) depressed, so that wouldn't work for me. It's interesting you mention movies, though, as that's one of the ways I can tell whether a scene I am writing works or not - if I can 'see' it, with jump cuts, closeups and other camera movement, then it's good.

I don't often listen to music while I'm writing, but if I do, it's always Baroque, which is close enough to white noise that it doesn't distract me.

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing (aka Eloquent Depression) at September 13, 2026 09:22 AM (qRla/)

30 Rejected by all so far. I can email it to you, if you want.
Posted by: OrangeEnt at September 13, 2026 09:15 AM (1Ff7Z)

Absolutely! My email is in my nic.

Posted by: Dash my lace wigs! at September 13, 2026 09:22 AM (CjHsb)

31 When the femme-fatale romance novelist came into my office, I could tell she didn't want to be there. The office and the building -- hell, the whole neighborhood -- were as low-rent as I was, and she was clearly afraid it might be contagious. I put away the bourbon and asked what I could do for her, and managed not to leer as I asked her.

"I need you to find out who's running a black-market idea service. It's hurting business, and we need it shut down."

"So why come to me?"

She looked at me, and at the office. "You look like you're right at home in those circles. So why not? If you want the job, the pay's good. And you look like you could use it." She took an envelope from her purse. "Ten thousand when the job's done. Here's two thousand in advance and a bus ticket to Schenectady. Take it or leave it."

Posted by: Just Some Guy at September 13, 2026 09:22 AM (q3u5l)

32 This indicates that the group fell apart. What happened?

There's a germ of a story idea.
Posted by: Weak Geek at September 13, 2026 09:19 AM (AAaj3)

One by one the members of a RPG group suddenly start dying in ways that would only happen in the game....

Posted by: OrangeEnt at September 13, 2026 09:22 AM (1Ff7Z)

33 For a change, I'm wearing pants.

Well, that's a disappointment.

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing (aka Eloquent Depression) at September 13, 2026 09:23 AM (qRla/)

34 Anyway. We're reading the third and latest in the series now, A Trade of Blood. It's a tale of feuding families, lost fortunes, and a unique and creepy biological warfare.
Posted by: Dash my lace wigs! at September 13, 2026 09:19 AM (CjHsb)
----
I just got that the other day!

Now I'm re-reading the first two before I read that one.

Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at September 13, 2026 09:24 AM (FZ29D)

35 I used to make up stories for my kids using the "That reminds me of the time I worked at the ______ factory" premise. I would start out with something like candy corn and say "That reminds me of the time I worked at the candy corn factory" and they would know a story was coming about how I caused some disaster there and got fired.

Like when I worked at the candy corn factory and invented Candy Corn Candles. People couldn't tell the difference and ate them anyway.

Posted by: fd at September 13, 2026 09:26 AM (MWfyi)

36 "As I may have mentioned previously, I am a writer."

Actually, I think you under describe yourself. You have books available for purchase. That makes you an author. Writer, to me, means someone who has completed works, but hasn't published. Everyone can be a writer, but only the best - or luckiest - writers get to be an author.

Posted by: OrangeEnt at September 13, 2026 09:26 AM (1Ff7Z)

37 Morning, folken,

I'm finishing Stephen Hunter's The Bullet Garden, a WWII adventure with Earl Swagger, Bob Lee's father, tracking a sniper team in France just after D-Day.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at September 13, 2026 09:26 AM (wzUl9)

38 Harlan Coben, who has sold 100,000,000 books, has written a book on writing, Plot Twist.

https://tinyurl.com/5fpvsx6k

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Gird Your Loins! at September 13, 2026 09:26 AM (ndZc7)

39 A NICKEL!?!

Posted by: Reforger at September 13, 2026 09:26 AM (szk5e)

40 It would have been ok except for the wicks.

Posted by: fd at September 13, 2026 09:27 AM (MWfyi)

41 Albert Campion has been asked by a friend from college to investigate the disappearance of his fiance's uncle. Before he even arrives in Cambridge, the body is found, and the trouble truly begins. In Police at the Funeral, Margery Allingham brings the reader a chaotic mystery that defies a simple explanation.

Great aunt Caroline is the matriarch of a dysfunctional family, and the widow of a famous professor at Cambridge. She wanted Campion involved to forestall police involvement and keep the situation quiet, but after Uncle Andrew's body is found tied with rope and a bullet hole in his head, and her son William was the last to be seen with him, it becomes impossible to keep things under wraps. William's army pistol is missing, and a shank of rope from the attic is gone as well, which all point to William.

All of Caroline's adult children sponge off of her and live in the same house in a festering atmosphere. When yet another death occurs in the house, it seems that a curse has fallen upon the family, and Campion must use all of his intuition and skill to break open the case and find the answers, however fantastical they appear. This is a classic Campion mystery.

Posted by: Thomas Paine at September 13, 2026 09:27 AM (0U5gm)

42 Not a lot of reading this week. Revisited Tim O'Brien's The Things They Carried and one of his later novels -- July, July. Still good after all these years.

Posted by: Just Some Guy at September 13, 2026 09:27 AM (q3u5l)

43 Now I'm re-reading the first two before I read that one.
Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at September 13, 2026 09:24 AM (FZ29D)

I think the series is improving as he goes. This has been the most interesting one to me, so far.

Posted by: Dash my lace wigs! at September 13, 2026 09:27 AM (CjHsb)

44 and because I am what is politely called a "discovery writer" (but what writers call "pantser", as in "seat of the pants") by the end of the first book I had space Neanderthals and machine telepaths and the vital importance of corn muffins.
----
This can work for some writers, but the conventional wisdom I've seen for novice authors is to plan, outline, and organize as much as possible.

Usually advice from established authors who got their start doing that.

Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at September 13, 2026 09:27 AM (FZ29D)

45 Candy corn candles. You held them by the wick to keep your fingers from getting sticky.

Posted by: Weak Geek at September 13, 2026 09:29 AM (AAaj3)

46 As for reading, I'm slowly going through David Thomson's new A Sudden Flicker of Light and am reminded, once again, why I could never have been a film student. The book is so dense and elliptic that it's very off-putting. I suppose a pro like TJM would understand it, but I don't.

And with him being a committed leftist, I did flip ahead to the last chapter, which is nothing more than a movie-centered screed against the 'dumb' DJT. So I know to skip that when I reach it.

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing (aka Eloquent Depression) at September 13, 2026 09:29 AM (qRla/)

47 I am still reading a translation of M. Luther’s advent sermons. He has begun the good works/ free will argument.

Posted by: Accomack at September 13, 2026 09:31 AM (/Chlc)

48 It would have been ok except for the wicks.

Candy with free flossing included! What's not to like?

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing (aka Eloquent Depression) at September 13, 2026 09:31 AM (qRla/)

49 35 I used to make up stories for my kids using the "That reminds me of the time I worked at the ______ factory" premise.

Like when I worked at the candy corn factory and invented Candy Corn Candles. People couldn't tell the difference and ate them anyway.
Posted by: fd at September 13, 2026 09:26 AM (MWfyi)

LOL. I'll bet they cherish the memories. What a great dad thing to do!

Posted by: Dash my lace wigs! at September 13, 2026 09:31 AM (CjHsb)

50 Candy Cirn Candles story is funny

Posted by: Skip at September 13, 2026 09:32 AM (Ia/+0)

51 After putting it aside for the better part of a year, I finally finished reading the comic book series "The Maze Agency." It is a mystery series written in its entirety by Mike Barr, and initially drawn by Adam Hughes, and then a succession of lesser artists. It has been mentioned on this thread before (by one of our many mystery aficionados) and that is the whole reason I heard of, and then read the series.

While some of the stories were fun, as a whole the stories suffered for being a comic book. Specifically, the pacing suffers. The author wanted every issue to be a complete story, and wanted every story to hit all the story beats of a traditional mystery; it'd start with a vignette showing the detective's personal life, then something connecting the detective to the mystery, explaining/showing the crime that created the mystery, investigation the possible suspects and motives, introducing a red herring or two, the big reveal where the detective solves the mystery, and then a coda going back to the detective's personal life. You can put all that in a novel, or in 40-minute tv show...but it's a bit much to pack into a 22-page comic book.

Posted by: Castle Guy at September 13, 2026 09:35 AM (3v7ra)

52 >> I read once in a book review column that "Blank paper is God's way of showing you that it's not so easy to be God."

Heh.

Posted by: Lizzy at September 13, 2026 09:36 AM (rOKnE)

53 Roger Ebert has said one of his guilty pleasures is how movies portray writers writing. Sometimes it's pounding at a typewriter while throwing back Jack Daniels; sometimes it's walking with your dog around a lake contemplating, deep thoughts; sometimes it's dodging bullets while peeking out of a trench at the enemy with pencil and notepad in hand.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Gird Your Loins! at September 13, 2026 09:36 AM (ndZc7)

54 Sabrina,
I love your account of making a story idea, both for the classroom (which was hilarious) and for real. That's the fun part, giving your imagination full reign. The work comes when you have to make that jumble of ideas make narrative sense.

But there are unexpected dangers and paths that can appear. Many years ago I had an outline for an adventure story. Then I wrote a three page intro to establish a few characters and a mood for the story. Three hundred pages later I had a book based solely on that intro. I never got back to the outline. (The book didn't sell. This was long before self publishing was common and going through agents was the norm.)

Posted by: JTB at September 13, 2026 09:37 AM (yTvNw)

55 Just finished reading _Powers of Darkness_, which is (deep breath) an English translation of the Icelandic translation possibly of a Swedish translation of Bram Stoker's Dracula.

You might ask, why not just read Dracula? Or you might assume this is an exercise in comic mis-translation a la Mark Twain. It is neither. There are whole plot elements in PoD which aren't in Dracula itself, and some of the characters have different names, which suggests that maybe the translator(s) could have been working from an earlier draft by Stoker.

Example: at one point while Thomas (not Jonathan) Harker is creeping around Dracula's castle, he finds a secret basement chamber where Dracula is leading a bunch of Neanderthal types in a vampiric human sacrifice cult ritual. (Shades of "The Rats in the Walls"!)

The Icelandic version was published as a newspaper serial, and apparently the publisher must have gotten tired of it. The Harker-in-the-Castle sequence is as long or longer than the comparable part of Stoker's novel, but the remainder of the novel is briskly retold, almost summarized, in about a quarter of the length. Dracula's death literally gets one sentence.

Posted by: Trimegistus at September 13, 2026 09:38 AM (78a2H)

56 Thanks for the post Sabrina.

Finished reading Assignment in Utopia by Eugene Lyons (1937)

https://www.city-journal.org/article/the-red-decade-redux

"It may be that the best book that will ever be written about today’s progressive mind-set was published in 1941."

Posted by: 13times at September 13, 2026 09:40 AM (fnZRl)

57 I love the idea of the "working at the ${thing} factory" stories. What lucky kids!

I made the mistake of coming up with a story on the fly for a toddler I was entertaining. It involved a mother bear and her cubs waking up hungry after hibernation and the various things the cubs wanted to eat. When I finished I heard the dreaded words "Again!"

And I had to feverishly try to remember how I had started the damn story ...

Posted by: Sabrina Chase at September 13, 2026 09:40 AM (63pwK)

58 There were a lot of those stories and I can't remember any of them. They just come on the fly. Like when I worked at the Sour Creme factory and had this idea for sweet and sour creme.

Posted by: fd at September 13, 2026 09:43 AM (MWfyi)

59 "When I finished I heard the dreaded words "Again!""

Been there and done that. It was a rough couple of weeks too.

Posted by: Just Some Guy at September 13, 2026 09:44 AM (q3u5l)

60 My maternal grandfather, despite a lack of schooling, spent a lot of time writing short pieces and poems after his retirement frim the mines. The wife of one of us grandkids had them reprinted in a spiral binder as Christmas gifts one year.

I don't know where mine is.

I do recall one poem about two monkeys discussing Darwin's theory. It ended:

Yes, man descended, the ornery cuss,

But, brother, he didn't descend from us!

Posted by: Weak Geek at September 13, 2026 09:44 AM (VChGu)

61 "Psst... Hey buddy, want to buy a couple of ideas?"
Posted by: Thomas Paine

They fell off a truck.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Gird Your Loins! at September 13, 2026 09:44 AM (ndZc7)

62 Absolutely! My email is in my nic.
Posted by: Dash my lace wigs! at September 13, 2026 09:22 AM (CjHsb)

Sent. It's in docx.

Posted by: OrangeEnt at September 13, 2026 09:46 AM (1Ff7Z)

63 Have been listening to the first of the Eisenhorn novels from Dan Abnett(sp?) It's interesting and I can see why they are popular. It is a different writing style from what you find these days in any genre. It is unrelieved action. Pushing from one scene to another, relentlessly driving forward.

It is also interesting in what it is missing. The hero is never pausing and contemplating his actions or why he is doing what he is doing or if he is right. Worldbuilding is good with things implied and mentioned, but no sitting down and doing the 'As you know, the Emperor is...' It stays consistent to itself and hints, but does not explicate.

I like it so far. Had a bunch of credits on audible so I got the whole series.

Posted by: Aetius451AD at September 13, 2026 09:47 AM (Y/06r)

64 Getting story ideas? Half the stories running through my head start with stories I've just watched/read about, and taking a look at that scenario from the perspective of a bystander.

As an example, the last novel I read feature a sword-and-sorcery style wandering adventurer who thwarted not less that 2 potentially city-killing Eldrich horrors. So, my thought process; what happens after the wandering hero has moved on. There is a de-populated city in the middle of an empire. Eventually some new civilians will move into the empty land (or be forcefully relocated onto the land, because the empire needs the taxes!) and then our new protagonist will encounter some dangerous remanent of what came before....

Posted by: Castle Guy at September 13, 2026 09:47 AM (3v7ra)

65 Wouldn't he be looking at the back of the paper?

Posted by: Boss Moss at September 13, 2026 09:47 AM (5Go8e)

66 It is also interesting in what it is missing. The hero is never pausing and contemplating his actions or why he is doing what he is doing or if he is right. Worldbuilding is good with things implied and mentioned, but no sitting down and doing the 'As you know, the Emperor is...' It stays consistent to itself and hints, but does not explicate.

I like it so far. Had a bunch of credits on audible so I got the whole series.
Posted by: Aetius451AD at September 13, 2026 09:47 AM (Y/06r)
----
I read the omnibus edition of the Eisenhorn books earlier this year. Although the protagonist starts out unwavering in his belief in the rightness of the Empire, that does start to change in the later books...Good character development overall.

Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at September 13, 2026 09:49 AM (FZ29D)

67 Reread - The Doorbell Rang by Rex Stout (#41) (1965)

My favorite Nero Wolf book.

Posted by: 13times at September 13, 2026 09:49 AM (fnZRl)

68 Hey Perfessor!

Melt Wizard - Weis & Hickman: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGSlmpDQIH8

Enjoy!

Posted by: Shinjinrui at September 13, 2026 09:50 AM (xNMCe)

69 Also recently, I reread Jack Schaefer's "Sergeant Houck," one of the best short stories in any genre (or in literary circles for that matter). Even someone who doesn't like Westerns might like, or at least appreciate, this one.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at September 13, 2026 09:51 AM (wzUl9)

70 I get my ideas via snail mail from a post office box in Schenectady, third Thursday of the month. Sometimes they're crap. But most of the time you can make 'em work with a bit of hand filing, grease, and maybe a few extra screws.

Posted by: unwenchable at September 13, 2026 09:51 AM (wTDv5)

71 63
It is also interesting in what it is missing. The hero is never pausing and contemplating his actions or why he is doing what he is doing or if he is right. Worldbuilding is good with things implied and mentioned, but no sitting down and doing the 'As you know, the Emperor is...' It stays consistent to itself and hints, but does not explicate.

I like it so far. Had a bunch of credits on audible so I got the whole series.
Posted by: Aetius451AD at September 13, 2026 09:47 AM (Y/06r)

Well, Eisenhorn is part of the Warhammer 40K franchise, and in that world, self doubt (or even self reflection)would be Heresy. And everyone on the internet knows how that setting feels about Heresy...

Posted by: Castle Guy at September 13, 2026 09:54 AM (3v7ra)

72 Close to the end of Stone’s Fall.. read all of a George Sand novel (Indiana) and it was terrible. But it’s All Hail Éris said of The Robot Brains, at least it didn’t take 500 pages to stink up the joint. It was part of a 3 novel collection on my kindle. Don’t know if I should try again or just right her off as a crappy writer

Posted by: Who Knew at September 13, 2026 09:54 AM (0QMbS)

73 Sent. It's in docx.
Posted by: OrangeEnt at September 13, 2026 09:46 AM (1Ff7Z)

Cool, I'll find time for that this week.

Posted by: Dash my lace wigs! at September 13, 2026 09:54 AM (CjHsb)

74 In "The Babylon Lottery" Jorge Luis Borges's narrator says that for a time he was declared invisible. Nothing else is done with the notion; it's passed over, just a throwaway bit. Later, Robert Silverberg picked up that notion and got one of his best short stories of the 60s out of it, "To See the Invisible Man."

In the novel April Evil, John D. MacDonald has a bit of description, something like "one of those men who could be a used car salesman or a tourist from Syracuse or a hired assassin." Donald Justice picked that up and got a nifty little chiller of a poem from it, "The Tourist from Syracuse."

Posted by: Just Some Guy at September 13, 2026 09:57 AM (q3u5l)

75 ss so. The non-writing public, not seeing the whining and crying and hair-pulling we do at the computer, think it is just sitting back and thinking Big Thinks

Well, there's your problem. Just avoid thinking the Little Thinks, and Bob's your uncle, you're the next Tom Clancy.

Posted by: Archimedes at September 13, 2026 09:58 AM (Riz8t)

76 The thread's been up for nearly and hour and is nowhere near 100 comments.

I think the subject scared people away.

Posted by: Weak Geek at September 13, 2026 09:59 AM (VChGu)

77 Knocking down latest Reacher novels like nobody's business lately.

Posted by: Boss Moss at September 13, 2026 10:00 AM (5Go8e)

78 >>I made the mistake of coming up with a story on the fly for a toddler I was entertaining.

At the coffee shop yesterday morning, had a Mom, Dad, & 2 little girls (about 3 & 6). Mom made up a quick fairy story at the younger one's request. When the girl asked for another, Mom said, 'Maybe Daddy has one for you.' Didn't hear how he deflected, though.

Posted by: Nazdar at September 13, 2026 10:00 AM (NcvvS)

79 The first comment was posted before the thread. How does that work?

Posted by: Boss Moss at September 13, 2026 10:01 AM (5Go8e)

80 A NICKEL!?!
Posted by: Reforger at September 13, 2026 09:26 AM (szk5e)

Shoot. Can't even buy an RC with that.

Posted by: OrangeEnt at September 13, 2026 10:02 AM (1Ff7Z)

81 On the question of "Where do you get your ideas?" the story is told of how Robert A. Heinlein upon hearing that one of his writer buddies (Theodore Sturgeon IIRC) was suffering severe writer's block sent him a letter with a page long list of story ideas (plus a check to which Sturgeon returned a grateful thanks plus regret that most of it was "...pissed away on rent and groceries."

Posted by: John F. MacMichael at September 13, 2026 10:03 AM (/GVA9)

82 Talarico's got a what Jesus would do story idea.

"What would Jesus do if he visited the U.S. Senate? I think he would tell the Senators...'I was a stranger and you deported me'...and then I think he would flip over those fancy desks..."

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Gird Your Loins! at September 13, 2026 10:03 AM (ndZc7)

83 In the novel April Evil, John D. MacDonald has a bit of description, something like "one of those men who could be a used car salesman or a tourist from Syracuse or a hired assassin." Donald Justice picked that up and got a nifty little chiller of a poem from it, "The Tourist from Syracuse."
Posted by: Just Some Guy at September 13, 2026 09:57 AM (q3u5l)

There's a Kolchak short story (I don't remember the title) where he runs into an apparently immortal man whose purpose is to kill or otherwise remove men or women who will become great dangers to the world. Kolchak can never get a fix on him, however, because the man's appearance constantly changes from one ordinary face to another.

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing (aka Eloquent Depression) at September 13, 2026 10:07 AM (qRla/)

84 Kolchak? Who loves you, Baby?

Posted by: Boss Moss at September 13, 2026 10:08 AM (5Go8e)

85 Sabrina, I read your "Argonauts of Space" trilogy some years ago and really enjoyed it. I wish you'd write more about the AI ships. Any plans to do so?

Posted by: Tuna at September 13, 2026 10:08 AM (lJ0H4)

86 Story idea. Dracula in the Senate. "Blood! I must drink the taxpayers' blood! Particularly the young girls!"

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Gird Your Loins! at September 13, 2026 10:08 AM (ndZc7)

87 RPG gamers writing books.....

James Cambias; A Darkling Sea and The Godel Operation (and more.)

Adrian Tchaikovsky: lots of books.

Posted by: 13times at September 13, 2026 10:09 AM (fnZRl)

88 Good Morning Sabrina
Always a pleasure to see you here.
My partner Karen used to ask me for a word. Just something random. She's anagram it and then make a poem of the word using each letter to start a line.
Usually, in the car on the way home from a hike. It was astonishing to watch and often hilarious.

Posted by: Winston AKA Pops at September 13, 2026 10:09 AM (0+1tY)

89 One advantage to being older is having the chance to read things again after half a century, or more, and compare my thoughts and appreciation. That happened this week with Milton's Paradise Lost which I hadn't read since my teens, circa 1970. Back then Satan was the attractive character: rebellious, determined, dominating. Christianity felt like mild dish water by comparison. And I had no real appreciation of the writing beyond the emotional aspects.

Fast forward fifty-six years. What a difference! There's still the attraction of Satan's defiance but the power of the rest of the poem is clear. And I can see the genius of Milton's writing with the wealth of allusions, pacing, description and imagination. It's like opening an old chest expecting a few dusty coins and discovering it is filled with gold.

Posted by: JTB at September 13, 2026 10:12 AM (yTvNw)

90 The Argonauts wouldn't have space suits.

Posted by: Boss Moss at September 13, 2026 10:13 AM (5Go8e)

91 This can work for some writers, but the conventional wisdom I've seen for novice authors is to plan, outline, and organize as much as possible.

Usually advice from established authors who got their start doing that.
Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at September 13, 2026 09:27 AM (FZ29D)

Bzzzzt!

I'm gonna have to press the buzzer on that, Perf. I always start with the idea and see where it goes. Starting from nothing makes the journey more free. I don't think a new writer can completely outline a story before touching the keys or pen. You don't know what could be, if you're going to follow a plan. Don't know how many times stuff I've plotted out - and I do both methods - won't work, and I can replace it with another idea. If you plan too much, you may find it hard to solve problems that crop up with a slavish adherence to a "plan."

It doesn't mean I don't think it can work, but it's best not to get locked into one way and one way only to write.

By the way, have you ever noticed almost all the writing YTers aren't best selling authors? So, why give credence to their ideas.

Posted by: OrangeEnt at September 13, 2026 10:13 AM (1Ff7Z)

92 So when I first started working at the Candy Corn factory, I started out as a "white" man. That's the guy that pours the white tips on the candy corn. Most people don't know that candy corn is made upside down, white end first. I did that for a while and moved up (or down,as the case may be) to orange for a short time but I was so good at that they moved me right up to yellow man.

One day we were working and the power went out. No machine, no lights, nothing. I had a flashlight and got an idea, so grabbed some of those candy corns and went over to the lab. Yes, we had a lab at the candy corn factory. There I found a battery drill and drilled a little hole in the pointy end of the candy corn and stuck a piece of string in there. When I lit it on fire, it burned real good!

Posted by: fd at September 13, 2026 10:14 AM (MWfyi)

93 Funny you should ask, Tuna! It's not exactly about the AI ships, but I thought it would be hilarious to write about the Argonauts series from the perspective of the ship's cat. Probably a novella, the cat sleeps a lot

Posted by: Sabrina Chase at September 13, 2026 10:14 AM (63pwK)

94 So I made up a few more and went back out to where everyone was sitting around in the dark and showed them my candy cane candles. They were very impressed and said we should make some more, but the plant was shut down because the power was off. In a back room though there was still the old molds and equipment they used back when they made the candy corn by hand. We made up a batch of those candy corn candles and packed them up real nice, put them on the shelf, and went home for the day.

Posted by: fd at September 13, 2026 10:15 AM (MWfyi)

95 "Maybe Daddy has one for you."

And for some reason, I imagine a scenario in which the parents are using the kids to snipe at each other for years and years and the kids never suspect until after they've grown and the parents split up.

Posted by: Just Some Guy at September 13, 2026 10:16 AM (q3u5l)

96 Well the next day when we came in those candy corn candles were gone! They had already gone out with a regular shipment. We didn't say anything, but in a couple of days the phone calls started coming in. That's when I got fired

Posted by: fd at September 13, 2026 10:17 AM (MWfyi)

97 Beau died saving little children when the Candy Corn factory exploded. True story.

Posted by: Joe Biden at September 13, 2026 10:17 AM (U/s6V)

98 Ideas have come to me from all sorts of sources. One was from a dream, and oddly I did not have to change much from what I recalled to make the story work. One was from a line in the Pam Tillis song "Mi Vida Loca."

Often, though, it's from my mind wandering and wondering, What would happen if . . .

Watching Mrs. Miniver the other night, I began to wonder about a concept, and am still considering it. No idea yet if it will be horror, fantasy, mystery/suspense, or none of those things.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at September 13, 2026 10:17 AM (wzUl9)

99 65 Wouldn't he be looking at the back of the paper?
Posted by: Boss Moss at September 13, 2026 09:47 AM (5Go8e)

"Who the heck is Saedi?"

Posted by: Warai-otoko at September 13, 2026 10:19 AM (Ot/FD)

100 100

Posted by: Boss Moss at September 13, 2026 10:19 AM (5Go8e)

101 I read another of Harlan Coben's sports agent Myron Bolitar books this week, Drop Shot, about the murder of a very young has been tennis star. He amazes me with his ability to pull a hidden in plain sight rabbit out of the hat that surprises me.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Gird Your Loins! at September 13, 2026 10:21 AM (ndZc7)

102 >92. You may have a fine future with us at Missile Popsicle Inc.

Posted by: Space Sicle Z at September 13, 2026 10:21 AM (fnZRl)

103 How much of the "you must outline" comes not from working writers but from academia? Publishers have wanted outlines, but I've heard of writers who would write the book and then send in an outline of what they've already written.

There's a writing book by Dean Wesley Smith called Writing Into the Dark, talking about the process of writing novels without outlines. Some interesting stuff in there.

Posted by: Just Some Guy at September 13, 2026 10:21 AM (q3u5l)

104 Posted by: OrangeEnt at September 13, 2026 10:13 AM (1Ff7Z)

I’ve seen this advice from BIG names such as Brandon Sanderson and Terry Brooks. Not just random YouTubers. George RR Martin is an admitted “pantser” which is why he’s written himself into a corner.

Posted by: Perfessor Squirrel at September 13, 2026 10:22 AM (ppvE/)

105 In 1985, my crew was tasked to fly from Diego Garcia to Djibouti and then transported to a non-descript building located right on the Gulf of Aden at the Gate of Tears.

The mission was to bring "supplies" to four Americans who lived and worked in the building. The head guy told me they were U.S. Department of State employees, at which I laughed, but said nothing. (Of course they weren't State employees, but rather members of a different U.S. agency).

I've always thought my experience there would be a good opening scene in a novel of international intrigue. Coming up with a plot going forward would have to fall to aa real author, however, because I'm not good at such things.

Posted by: one hour sober at September 13, 2026 10:23 AM (J4Dwc)

106 Wrong burner.

Posted by: Boss Moss at September 13, 2026 10:24 AM (5Go8e)

107 82 Talarico's got a what Jesus would do story idea.

"What would Jesus do if he visited the U.S. Senate? I think he would tell the Senators...'I was a stranger and you deported me'...and then I think he would flip over those fancy desks..."
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Gird Your Loins! at September 13, 2026 10:03 AM (ndZc7)

I just realized that "Lo-T" also spells "Lot".

Posted by: Warai-otoko at September 13, 2026 10:24 AM (Ot/FD)

108 For anyone wanting to enjoy stories where writers are playing with ideas find a copy of "Partners In Wonder" (1971). This is a collection of short stories by Harlan Ellison written in collaboration with a wide ranging assortment of other authors. They include Theodore Sturgeon, Keith Laumer, Ben Bova and Avram Davidson among others. It is quite a collection.

Posted by: John F. MacMichael at September 13, 2026 10:25 AM (/GVA9)

109 Boy, that Talarico's a profound guy, ain't he?

In my version, Jesus would say "I was a stranger and you refused to take me into your own home and forced me upon your poorer neighbors."

Posted by: Just Some Guy at September 13, 2026 10:27 AM (q3u5l)

110 Bitchute moved to Wyoming last year and now works better.

Posted by: Boss Moss at September 13, 2026 10:27 AM (5Go8e)

111 >>And for some reason, I imagine a scenario in which the parents are using the kids to snipe at each other for years and years and the kids never suspect until after they've grown and the parents split up.

It was a sweet story about a fairy whose wings got wet in the rain. The sun came out and dried them, and she was able to fly again & slide down the rainbow. Ha, didn't think I was listening that closely.

Posted by: Nazdar at September 13, 2026 10:27 AM (NcvvS)

112 I’ve seen this advice from BIG names such as Brandon Sanderson and Terry Brooks. Not just random YouTubers. George RR Martin is an admitted “pantser” which is why he’s written himself into a corner.
Posted by: Perfessor Squirrel at September 13, 2026

***
I usually start on a project, big or small, with a "notes" document. Something in my "story ideas" Word file catches my attention, or I'm adding to the file with something new. Then I break it out into its own file and proceed from there. Sometimes I follow it through to its conclusion; sometimes I stop after a certain point, which varies, and start in on the text. Sometimes I finish and realize I've gone off in a different direction from what I had in mind during the note writing. Perhaps the resolution I had there becomes unworkable or silly ("I just don't believe this!") as I get into the tale itself and develop the characters and the action.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at September 13, 2026 10:28 AM (wzUl9)

113 I used to play D&D with my kids too. Lots of stories there. We had this place called Dingytown...

Posted by: fd at September 13, 2026 10:29 AM (MWfyi)

114 My stories almost always come to me in a dream. A major scene, characters and their names and backstories. I write up to it and away from it.

But one still baffles me. When my husband and I packed to move I found a folder of about 70 pp of a sf fantasy. I knew from the paper and the font that I had written it when I was in intense chemo for what seemed at the time an unsurvivable cancer and couldn't put 2 sentences together, let alone 70 pp.

I didn't read sf. That was my husband's side of the bookcase. But when you get that kind of letter to yourself, well, you have to honor it.

Posted by: Wenda at September 13, 2026 10:30 AM (WBjaU)

115 Nazdar --

I don't doubt it was a sweet story. But on the infrequent occasions when something suggests a notion that could be turned into a story, I tend to come up with something grim. I'm just such an upbeat guy...

Posted by: Just Some Guy at September 13, 2026 10:31 AM (q3u5l)

116 I don't outline, but I rewrite. I start with a memory or an anecdote and work from there. Sometimes it takes 10 to 15 rewrites before I capture the soul of what I'm trying to say.

Posted by: vivi at September 13, 2026 10:33 AM (7esJd)

117 Try grammarly for your story

Posted by: Miguel cervantes at September 13, 2026 10:33 AM (5NDio)

118 It's important to learn story structure, like outlining. Definitely useful in non-fiction where you have to make sure you got all the information down and ordered. Fiction ... is more of an art. And the distinction between outliners and pantsers is truly a matter of the person. I *can* outline, but it sucks all the fun out of the process of writing for me. And outliners (I hear) get very stressed at the idea of not having their structure to hang prose on. The main point (and Dean Wesley Smith, who I have taken several courses from) is to HAVE FUN. If you are having fun, the reader usually will too. Sure, sitting down and doing the work can be a slog. The fun part is realizing a throwaway line in ch. 2 suddenly becomes *very* important in ch. 32, or a character gets all up in your face with *their* opinion on what needs doing... and if you are giggling to yourself as you write ... yeah, that's fun.

Posted by: Sabrina Chase at September 13, 2026 10:33 AM (63pwK)

119 In one of his books on writing, Lawrence Block suggests a technique he said he's used: Take an episode of a TV show, the central idea, and make it yours. Get rid of the continuing characters, tell what happens, and end it in a satisfying way that is completely different from the original script. He said he sold more than a few stories that way.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at September 13, 2026 10:34 AM (wzUl9)

120 I've not read any of Martin's GoT books, and have no plans to. But Martin did some nice stuff prior to GoT. Lot of good short work ("Sandkings" etc), and I recall Fevre Dream and The Armageddon Rag being pretty decent.

But if he tried to do something as big as GoT strictly as a pantser, and published the books as he went along without having a solid idea of a final conclusion -- well, yeah, I can see how that would be asking for trouble.

Posted by: Just Some Guy at September 13, 2026 10:36 AM (q3u5l)

121 I’ve seen this advice from BIG names such as Brandon Sanderson and Terry Brooks. Not just random YouTubers. George RR Martin is an admitted “pantser” which is why he’s written himself into a corner.
Posted by: Perfessor Squirrel at September 13, 2026 10:22 AM (ppvE/)

Just don't be slavish to one method or another. I start free form, then about a third of the way through I plot in general terms. I don't do every scene and then and then and then. It won't let you add something if an idea hits, or you have to torture what you've already written to make it fit.

If it works for them, goody. It may not work for a new writer because they may not know how to plot a story yet.

Posted by: OrangeEnt at September 13, 2026 10:36 AM (1Ff7Z)

122 Talifreako: “What would Jesus do if he visited the U.S. Senate?”
——

Separation of Church and State, cocksucker

Posted by: Check Out His Crawlspace Too at September 13, 2026 10:37 AM (SY3aZ)

123 I've not read any of Martin's GoT books, and have no plans to. But Martin did some nice stuff prior to GoT. Lot of good short work ("Sandkings" etc), and I recall Fevre Dream and The Armageddon Rag being pretty decent. . . .

Posted by: Just Some Guy at September 13, 2026

***
Whenever people growl about GRR Martin not being any good, I describe Fevre Dream, and they have to admit it sounds terrific. And it is.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at September 13, 2026 10:38 AM (wzUl9)

124 "Take an episode of a TV show, the central idea, and make it yours."

Hmm. A shipment of candy corn is needed on a remote Pacific island but the ship's science officer causes a detour Tahiti to cure his seven year itch.

Posted by: fd at September 13, 2026 10:39 AM (MWfyi)

125 Very good and important post Sabrina.

Ideas seem to come at random and when they stop coming naturally it can be jarring.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, Buy ammo at September 13, 2026 10:39 AM (xcxpd)

126 I mostly just need a good editor.

Posted by: fd at September 13, 2026 10:40 AM (MWfyi)

127 I had a friend who was a professional writer. He told me that good ideas were everywhere, and good stories weren’t hard to come up with.
“Good endings” he said; “THAT’S the hard part!”

Posted by: Tom Servo at September 13, 2026 10:41 AM (P8wUf)

128 "What would Jesus do if he visited the U.S. Senate?”

I'm not sure that's that kind of story idea I would run with.

Posted by: fd at September 13, 2026 10:41 AM (MWfyi)

129 123 I've not read any of Martin's GoT books, and have no plans to. But Martin did some nice stuff prior to GoT. Lot of good short work ("Sandkings" etc), and I recall Fevre Dream and The Armageddon Rag being pretty decent. . . .

Posted by: Just Some Guy at September 13, 2026

***
Whenever people growl about GRR Martin not being any good, I describe Fevre Dream, and they have to admit it sounds terrific. And it is.
Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at September 13, 2026 10:38 AM (wzUl9)

Martin is a skillful writer but he's got some serious flaws, some ideological, that prevent him from doing anything he doesn't want to.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, Buy ammo at September 13, 2026 10:42 AM (xcxpd)

130 This book looks at a footnote to history I know nothing about. I may have to read it.

Fiume: The Poet Who Captured a City tells the remarkable true story of a poet who became a commander, a disputed port that became a revolutionary state, and fifteen turbulent months that offered Europe an early glimpse of the political forces that would shape the decades ahead.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Gird Your Loins! at September 13, 2026 10:45 AM (ndZc7)

131 Oh, wanted to mention: In Stephen Hunter's The Bullet Garden, there are more than a few cameos. Vivien Leigh and Laurence Olivier show up, for instance; and two of Earl Swagger's team consult an Oxford don whose wife or housekeeper calls him "Ronnie," and who mentions he wrote a children's book in '37 and then began on a followup which has turned "rather dark." His identity I leave as an exercise for the student.

Baroness Karen Blixen is mentioned by first name. Her pen name is not given, but from the description and background, it has to be her. And a fictionalized version of her first husband, the "Blixen" fellow, is important to Hunter's story.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at September 13, 2026 10:45 AM (wzUl9)

132 But if he tried to do something as big as GoT strictly as a pantser, and published the books as he went along without having a solid idea of a final conclusion -- well, yeah, I can see how that would be asking for trouble.
Posted by: Just Some Guy at September 13, 2026 10:36 AM (q3u5l)

I suppose this GoT is an epic, never-ending story. I don't see why he'd be able to finish it just because he did a complete outline instead of pantsing all the way to the end. He's older, isn't he? Maybe he's just lost interest in continuing the work. I know how that feels.

Posted by: OrangeEnt at September 13, 2026 10:45 AM (1Ff7Z)

133 120
But if [George RR Martin] tried to do something as big as GoT strictly as a pantser, and published the books as he went along without having a solid idea of a final conclusion -- well, yeah, I can see how that would be asking for trouble.
Posted by: Just Some Guy at September 13, 2026 10:36 AM (q3u5l)

Heh. From what I've heard, his original pitch to the publisher (which he presumably had a 'plan' for) was for a trilogy. One could only imagine what would have happened had to stuck to that original pitch...

I've read a few chapters of Martin's work; back when the Game of Thrones TV show was good (or at least still decent) I'd wander over the library and read some chapters featuring the characters I liked...but nothing has made me want to read the entire books, nor to delve into his earlier works.

Posted by: Castle Guy at September 13, 2026 10:46 AM (3v7ra)

134 Talifreako: “What would Jesus do if he visited the U.S. Senate?”

***
Throw up His hands in horror and flee.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at September 13, 2026 10:46 AM (wzUl9)

135 I mostly just need a good editor.
Posted by: fd at September 13, 2026 10:40 AM (MWfyi)

I know one who's open for more business. Wolfus can verify.

Posted by: OrangeEnt at September 13, 2026 10:47 AM (1Ff7Z)

136 Sabrina,
I absolutely agree with you and Dean about having fun, except for the sf universe I described above that came to me out of nowhere. Those stories are more like taking dictation and they take me places that are hard to go to.

One came to me just this past week, and I'm still fighting against writing it, but I know I'm going to lose.

Posted by: Wenda at September 13, 2026 10:47 AM (WBjaU)

137 "What would Jesus do if he visited the U.S. Senate?”

As the saying goes 'flipping over tables and chasing people out with a whip' in on the table...

Posted by: Castle Guy at September 13, 2026 10:47 AM (3v7ra)

138 “Good endings” he said; “THAT’S the hard part!”
Posted by: Tom Servo

So it's like real life?

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Gird Your Loins! at September 13, 2026 10:47 AM (ndZc7)

139 Reflect and Eject — a lamerick webwork

Ideas? Of course, I get plenty.
Each morning I wake up with twenty.
But when I get up,
And have downed my first cup,
I see that they're all excrementy.

Posted by: mindful webworker - mulling doon at September 13, 2026 10:50 AM (4lnVb)

140 Yay book thread! I finished Graham Greene's Brighton Rock, a gangster redemption/damnation story written in 1938. I enjoyed it, but cannot recommend it to anyone other than a devoted anglophile who is familiar with 1930s slang.

Also, lots of Catholic stuff in it, but you knew that because of the author. To be clear, Greene includes faith because he regards it as crucial to understanding people (and he's right), but he is not preachy about it, and is very much willing to make fun of the Church and clergy.

Like Eveyln Waugh, he also has a deep love of clever plot twists, telegraphing the story and then - and this is the very important part - adding a completely unforeseen but completely consistent turn to it. Sort of the anti-Martin.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at September 13, 2026 10:51 AM (ZOv7s)

141 Bravo ! mindful webworker

Posted by: Skip at September 13, 2026 10:51 AM (Ia/+0)

142 Pantser vs Outliners is a long, long standing conflict because every writer is different and thus what works for one doesn't work for someone else. You gotta experiment and find what does work for you.

I will STRONGLY suggest that if you get a story idea, figure out the ending before spending time writing. Everything in between the opening scene and the ending scene can be outlined or improvised but endings are important. Figure it out first.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, Buy ammo at September 13, 2026 10:52 AM (xcxpd)

143 Mindful at 139 --

I don't wake up with nearly that many, but boy, can I identify with the rest of it.

Posted by: Just Some Guy at September 13, 2026 10:52 AM (q3u5l)

144 140 Yay book thread! I finished Graham Greene's Brighton Rock, a gangster redemption/damnation story written in 1938. I enjoyed it, but cannot recommend it to anyone other than a devoted anglophile who is familiar with 1930s slang.

You mean like "23 skidoo" or "That's really swell"?

Posted by: Dr. Pork Chops & Bacons at September 13, 2026 10:54 AM (g8Ew8)

145 Also in The Bullet Garden, Graham Greene's assassin Raven has various scenes. I guess it's supposed to be him, as the assassin has a harelip, and visited Brighton Rock amusement park as a boy, which I think is part of the background GG gives his Raven. The problem is that GG's Raven appeared in 1936, and I think he dies in that novel, A Gun For Sale/This Gun For Hire; yet Hunter's story takes place in the London of 1944.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at September 13, 2026 10:57 AM (wzUl9)

146 Note that "pantsing" vs outlining can depend on what specific project a writer is working on. Some stories need careful outlining, but others work best just by letting the characters do their thing and see how they bounce off each other.

Posted by: Trimegistus at September 13, 2026 10:57 AM (78a2H)

147 Yay book thread! I finished Graham Greene's Brighton Rock, a gangster redemption/damnation story written in 1938. I enjoyed it, but cannot recommend it to anyone other than a devoted anglophile who is familiar with 1930s slang.
*
You mean like "23 skidoo" or "That's really swell"?
Posted by: Dr. Pork Chops & Bacons at September 13, 2026

***
Thirties British slang is another country entirely!

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at September 13, 2026 10:57 AM (wzUl9)

148 "I will STRONGLY suggest that if you get a story idea, figure out the ending before spending time writing. "

Seeing as how all my stories ended up with me getting fired, that was never a problem.

Posted by: fd at September 13, 2026 10:58 AM (MWfyi)

149 When I started trying to write long-form fiction in college, I'd come up with a setting, and maybe characters but plot always eluded me. I'd get so far and then abandon it. I think a big part of this was inadequate life experience. It wasn't until I was in my 30s and had done a few things that I understood life as a story rather than isolated events.

I'd also known more people, and therefore more *about* people, and I began to use those people in my work. Maxim Darius in the Man of Destiny series is a based upon the late great Jerry Roe, head of the Michigan GOP during the 1970s. Political genius, funny guy, though I did change the part about him being an insatiable womanizer.

The most clear case of this is "Three Weeks with the Coasties", which is a novelization of my experience at the Deepwater Horizon oil spill. I retained all my records and emails, and so was able to reconstruct it day by day, albeit with some necessary embellishment.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at September 13, 2026 10:58 AM (ZOv7s)

150 Pantser vs Outliners is a long, long standing conflict because every writer is different and thus what works for one doesn't work for someone else. You gotta experiment and find what does work for you.

I will STRONGLY suggest that if you get a story idea, figure out the ending before spending time writing. Everything in between the opening scene and the ending scene can be outlined or improvised but endings are important. Figure it out first.
Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, Buy ammo at September 13, 2026

***
I can't echo this more strongly. You need to know what the payoff is. It's like telling a joke in public: You know the punchline, but you have to put in the various elements that make the line sensible (in the context of the joke) so that the listener will get it. If you leave something out, the audience will go, "Huh?" And the same reaction will happen if the punchline doesn't match the joke elements.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at September 13, 2026 11:01 AM (wzUl9)

151 Thirties British slang is another country entirely!
Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at September 13, 2026 10:57 AM (wzUl9)
---
I ran into words I'd never seen before, and of course the Cockney element adds another layer.

There's also the thing where he obstinately refuses to give clear names to people, so you eventually figure out The Boy is Pinkie, but only via dialog. Exposition, what's that?

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at September 13, 2026 11:01 AM (ZOv7s)

152 Some stories need careful outlining, but others work best just by letting the characters do their thing and see how they bounce off each other.
Posted by: Trimegistus at September 13, 2026 10:57 AM (78a2H)

Much like in Debbie Does Dallas.

Posted by: Dr. Pork Chops & Bacons at September 13, 2026 11:02 AM (g8Ew8)

153 I do recall one poem about two monkeys discussing Darwin's theory. It ended:

Yes, man descended, the ornery cuss,

But, brother, he didn't descend from us!
Posted by: Weak Geek at September 13, 2026 09:44 AM (VChGu)

Go on Youtube, and look for "The Monkey Speaks His Mind" by Dave Bartholomew. It's an entire song, and those lines are from it.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at September 13, 2026 11:03 AM (1z8ji)

154 I can't echo this more strongly. You need to know what the payoff is. It's like telling a joke in public: You know the punchline, but you have to put in the various elements that make the line sensible (in the context of the joke) so that the listener will get it. If you leave something out, the audience will go, "Huh?" And the same reaction will happen if the punchline doesn't match the joke elements.
Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at September 13, 2026 11:01 AM (wzUl9)
---
Counterpioint: it is often the case that while you know WHAT will happen, the HOW comes to you late in the writing, and is often unexpected, the resuilt of the story taking on a life of its own.

The problem with Martin was that he created an organic story and then kept doing gotchas until it felt completely contrived and random.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at September 13, 2026 11:04 AM (ZOv7s)

155 Raining like hell here at Chateaux Prov. Must be what all you others got yesterday.
Good day to stay in and read. Had to be out early, just got back. Will follow my own advice, with more tea.

Posted by: From about That Time at September 13, 2026 11:04 AM (sl73Y)

156 The "gotcha" at the end Waugh's short story "Basil Seal Rides Again" was one of the most brutally hilarious I have ever encountered. I was weeping with laughter. Talk about payoff.

(This was a belated conclusion to his Smart Set books and their anti-hero Lord Basil Seal.)

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at September 13, 2026 11:05 AM (ZOv7s)

157 Georges Simenon, if his Paris Review interview can be believed, was a pantser. When starting a novel, he had a place, some characters, and an opening incident that would set his people in motion.

"I know nothing whatever about the events that will occur later. Otherwise it would not be interesting to me."

Seemed to work out pretty well for him.

Posted by: Just Some Guy at September 13, 2026 11:06 AM (q3u5l)

158 Also, nice column, Sabrina.

Posted by: From about That Time at September 13, 2026 11:07 AM (sl73Y)

159 Well, busy day today, thanks, Sabrina.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at September 13, 2026 11:09 AM (ZOv7s)

160 When it comes to Catholic authors, it is fashionable on the left to dislike Flannery O'Connor, and I don't want to dislike her. But Wise Blood is deeply weird.

Posted by: Jean-Claude in at September 13, 2026 11:11 AM (2ap+5)

161 Fiume: The Poet Who Captured a City tells the remarkable true story of a poet who became a commander, a disputed port that became a revolutionary state, and fifteen turbulent months that offered Europe an early glimpse of the political forces that would shape the decades ahead.
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Gird Your Loins! at September 13, 2026 10:45 AM (ndZc7)

Gabriele D'Annunzio? Certifiable lunatic.

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing (aka Eloquent Depression) at September 13, 2026 11:16 AM (qRla/)

162 I'm a frugal guy. One indulgence is a well designed, well made hardcover book. My latest is Paradise Lost published by Lithos Press. The clothbound cover is a woodcut by Stephen Crotts who does the illustrations for Malcolm Guite's Arthur epic poem. The paper is nicely thick, the print is large enough to be comfortable, the page edges are gilded, a ribbon book mark, illustrations from Gustave Dore. There are brief annotations in the generous margins that are both helpful and don't distract the reader. I like that better than lengthy footnotes or flipping back and forth to an appendix.

The book is a physical pleasure to hold and read. I expect to pass this to young family members when the time comes. It is heirloom quality. At 28 bucks on Amazon, I think it is a real value, worth every penny to preserve and enjoy one of the treasures of English literature.

Posted by: JTB at September 13, 2026 11:18 AM (yTvNw)

163 I will STRONGLY suggest that if you get a story idea, figure out the ending before spending time writing. Everything in between the opening scene and the ending scene can be outlined or improvised but endings are important. Figure it out first.
Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, Buy ammo at September 13, 2026

My Theda Bara novels are all told in flashback (which, I have been assured, is a death-kiss as far as trad publishing is concerned), so I have the opening and closing written first.

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing (aka Eloquent Depression) at September 13, 2026 11:19 AM (qRla/)

164 OK, I suppose I'd better do some editing or the day is wasted.

Hope you all have a lovely day.

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing (aka Eloquent Depression) at September 13, 2026 11:19 AM (qRla/)

165 When it comes to Catholic authors, it is fashionable on the left to dislike Flannery O'Connor, and I don't want to dislike her. But Wise Blood is deeply weird.
Posted by: Jean-Claude in at September 13, 2026

***
While I've liked some of her short stories, she is not on the top of my favorites list. Maybe it's the Southern-ness of what she does.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at September 13, 2026 11:22 AM (wzUl9)

166 IIRC, Lawrence Block once cited a section of Donald Westlake's novel Adios Scheherezade as offering an excellent example of a novel outline. The book is set in the days when the sleaze paperbacks were still a going concern, and the narrator's been earning his living cranking out the stuff and can't bring himself to write the book he has to deliver in a few weeks. He tries to outline the thing. The closing portion of his outline, when his disgust with the stuff kicks in, is quite gross (funny too if you have a warped sense of humor). But it's a nice example of an outline.

Posted by: Just Some Guy at September 13, 2026 11:23 AM (q3u5l)

167 My Theda Bara novels are all told in flashback (which, I have been assured, is a death-kiss as far as trad publishing is concerned), so I have the opening and closing written first.
Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing (aka Eloquent Depression) at September 13, 2026

***
It may remain a death-kiss until it's not. Somebody will write a well-received and big-selling novel with the flashback as a central element, and then everybody will be scrambling to jump onto the wagon.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at September 13, 2026 11:24 AM (wzUl9)

168 I’m still reading, Operation Paperclip: The Secret Intelligence Program that Brought Nazi Scientists to America Book by Annie Jacobsen.
I’m pretty sure, although not entirely convinced, that my prior knowledge of this historical event was whitewashed, claiming that these scientists were unaware of the extent of the use of prisoner labor and atrocities.
It always amazes me that our government doesn’t trust us with this information, believing that we’d choose possible defeat over the actual truth. I know that it’s easier to believe in presentism, and that I’d choose the most moral decision over existence itself, but I’m pretty sure that I’d vote me over them every time.

Posted by: Unkaren at September 13, 2026 11:27 AM (wBxGS)

169 You can't handle the truth Col Jessop said

Posted by: Skip at September 13, 2026 11:28 AM (Ia/+0)

170 I've been reading a lot of classic literature lately. (Or Guite's Arthuriad epic poem which will become a classic.) Time for a brief change. I'm in the mood for a Nero Wolfe book with the delightful characters and vocabulary and his brownstone. Might throw in a Matt Helm book as well.

Posted by: JTB at September 13, 2026 11:28 AM (yTvNw)

171 Whoever recommended the book "The Secret Life of Groceries", that is truly a fun read.

Most grocery stores don't see themselves selling food, but moving Packaged Goods.

The section on trucking mates well to the book "End of the Road" which was written by a trucker. Trucking really is worse than share-cropping. If we return to professional drivers like in the 70s and 80s, you get cartels and Teamster labor strikes. With today's system you have debt slavery, drug addicts, homeless, illegal aliens and others who are fine with making $3/hr or less and living almost 24hrs a day in a 7x7 box.

Maybe Musk was right about autonomous trucks—especially for drayage.

Posted by: Community Notes at September 13, 2026 11:30 AM (PVBkQ)

172 It always amazes me that our government doesn’t trust us with this information, believing that we’d choose possible defeat over the actual truth. I know that it’s easier to believe in presentism, and that I’d choose the most moral decision over existence itself, but I’m pretty sure that I’d vote me over them every time.
Posted by: Unkaren at September 13, 2026 11:27 AM (wBxGS)

The one I met was unrepentant. Fuel scientist.

Posted by: Reforger at September 13, 2026 11:33 AM (F9nWj)

173 Gabriele D'Annunzio? Certifiable lunatic.
Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing (aka Eloquent Depression)

There's a lot of that going around lately.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Gird Your Loins! at September 13, 2026 11:34 AM (ndZc7)

174 Time for a brief change. I'm in the mood for a Nero Wolfe book with the delightful characters and vocabulary and his brownstone. Might throw in a Matt Helm book as well.
Posted by: JTB at September 13, 2026

***
Have you read all the Wolfe books? Two of my favorites are from the '50s, Murder by the Book and Might As Well Be Dead.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at September 13, 2026 11:35 AM (wzUl9)

175 He hung his head between his knees. His arms folded across him. A soft noise. He was chuckling. Or sobbing.

All I could do was stand there, like an idiot, staring at him.

How do you give the gift of Peace to the Peacebringer?

I think that's why most of my fellow believers in Paul's divine status don't believe me. They don't want to know the truth. In a way, they were afraid of the truth. Paul was just some guy, as a person, whatever The Gift was that he gave us. Now I knew.

And I knew he hadn't been to Heaven.

He'd been to Hell.

Posted by: mindful webworker - Invulnerable at September 13, 2026 11:37 AM (4lnVb)

176 Hmmmm.
Sabrina Chase
*dons kilt*
Wanna see my sgian-dubh?

Posted by: Diogenes at September 13, 2026 11:38 AM (2WIwB)

177 Time I shuffled off to handle some chores, all. Be nice. If you can't do that, at least don't get caught, or have plausible deniability ready to deploy!

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at September 13, 2026 11:40 AM (wzUl9)

178 I know of several fantasy writers who have used this method to great success (Raymond E. Feist, Steven Erickson & Ian C. Esslemont, Margaret Weis & Tracy Hickman, to name a few)
Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel

My understanding of most of the early Forgotten Realms novels is that they were novelizations of Ed Greenwood(?)'s D&D campaigns

Posted by: FeatherBlade at September 13, 2026 11:42 AM (anFBA)

179
I would say -

before you start writing, know-

your beginning
the end
and a minimum of three knockout scenes to act as sign posts along the way. Five or six is even better.

Posted by: naturalfake at September 13, 2026 11:43 AM (iJfKG)

180 174 ... "Have you read all the Wolfe books? Two of my favorites are from the '50s, Murder by the Book and Might As Well Be Dead."

Hi Wolfus,

I haven't read all of them but most. And I know I read those two although I don't recall the specifics. This is where used book stores come in with a chance to get inexpensive books in a series. Some of my paperbacks are showing their age but are still readable.

Posted by: JTB at September 13, 2026 11:45 AM (yTvNw)

181 The one I met was unrepentant. Fuel scientist

So, he thought Hitler was doing the right thing? Or, that Germany was fucked over in the Treaty of Versailles, and was justified in trying to conquer the world.

Posted by: Unkaren at September 13, 2026 11:46 AM (wBxGS)

182 Finally SOMEONE shows up in a kilt! It's like you guys never read the instructions or something

Posted by: Sabrina Chase at September 13, 2026 11:47 AM (63pwK)

183 In his intro to a reprint of Boys & Girls Together, William Goldman says "I had this much: a bunch of young people come to New York. I know I knew it went badly for them. That's it, folks." And he knew it had to be a LONG book.

It is a long book. And apparently not tightly plotted before he began writing it. And it's a terrific read.

Posted by: Just Some Guy at September 13, 2026 11:50 AM (q3u5l)

184 Von Braun had a lot of help. It's no accident that there were full color Disney programs about the Moon and Mars and articles in Colliers in the mid 1950s. He was an amazingly charismatic kind of guy, right out of central casting, and by most accounts a pretty good engineer.

Kurt Debus, and Arthur Rudolph were top level nazis and pretty much ran the entire booster or Saturn V program. Rudolph was later deported.

Less well known than the rocket scientists, of which there were hundreds, were the propaganda specialists and chemical/biological warfare specialists. The spook agencies picked up where they left off, the experiments at Dachau with hallucinogenics, trying to find "truth serum". Initially they focused on Mescaline, which Rudolf Hess described as "Mexican Brain Poison", apparently the British messed with him quite a bit.

There is mention of Bill Donovan working with L.S.D. in the OSS days, which puts the US government role with this substance much earlier than the early 1950s. But from out here in the cheap seats it looks to me the 1960s "tune on turn on drop out" drug culture had its genesis in the spook agencies. Your tax dollars at work, with a little help from nazis

Posted by: Common Tater at September 13, 2026 11:51 AM (uozx9)

185 your beginning
the end
and a minimum of three knockout scenes to act as sign posts along the way.

-
I heard some smart guy once define a good movie as one with no bad scenes and three good scenes.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Gird Your Loins! at September 13, 2026 11:52 AM (ndZc7)

186 If you’re going to whitewash history then it’s best to do it with hallucinogenic substances.

Posted by: Unkaren at September 13, 2026 11:54 AM (wBxGS)

187 Should have thought this earlier, is screen writing any different from book writing?

Posted by: Skip at September 13, 2026 11:55 AM (Ia/+0)

188 And outta here for the morning. Chores to screw up, cat to annoy (no active measures required here -- I annoy the cat merely by existing), some reading to do, and maybe even a little writing (hey, it could happen).

Sabrina, thanks for the thread. I'm always a sucker for any writer's shoptalk.

Have a good one, gang.

Posted by: Just Some Guy at September 13, 2026 11:56 AM (q3u5l)

189 Finally SOMEONE shows up in a kilt! It's like you guys never read the instructions or something
Posted by: Sabrina Chase

Some years ago, I attended a presentation by one of my son-in-law's favorite professors. He appeared wearing a skirt! I was like oh shit! My SIL explained it's not what it seems. He's just a Scottish nationalist.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Gird Your Loins! at September 13, 2026 11:58 AM (ndZc7)

190 How Writers Get Their Ideas

-----------

I thought they buy them from Miles Finch.

Posted by: Walter Hobbs at September 13, 2026 12:00 PM (wpRMV)

191 Good morning from the now cooled down Left Coast where the 49ers beat the Rams down under and the Cal Bears redeemed themselves in Upstate NY.

Oh--sorry. Wrong thread!

I can write scenes. I can write characters. I can write dialogue. My challenge is the resolution of the conflict. I write myself into a corner or a wall and...

I'm a better poet than a narrative writer. /sigh

Posted by: March Hare at September 13, 2026 12:00 PM (+A1pr)

192 And so another Book Thread has moved to Unsupervised status. I must go off and write more books for you lot!

As always, a pleasure ...

Posted by: Sabrina Chase at September 13, 2026 12:01 PM (63pwK)

193 Thanks for the Book Thread, Sabrina!

Posted by: Nazdar at September 13, 2026 12:01 PM (NcvvS)

194 I don't have many "conspiracy theories" (virtually all of them turned out to be conspiracy facts anyway) but one of them is the strange decline and death of James Forrestal, the first secretary of defense. He ended up doing a swan dive from about 15 floors high at Bethesda, and has a lot of the characteristics of a spook hit.

Posted by: Common Tater at September 13, 2026 12:03 PM (uozx9)

195 Should have thought this earlier, is screen writing any different from book writing?
Posted by: Skip

Immensely, scripts have to be complete storylines pared down to the bare elements, and timed to the page. They are entirely different arts.

Posted by: Escobar cut-loop at September 13, 2026 12:04 PM (HeG1i)

196 146 Note that "pantsing" vs outlining can depend on what specific project a writer is working on. Some stories need careful outlining, but others work best just by letting the characters do their thing and see how they bounce off each other.

---------

The latter approach also works well for big budget movie trilogies. Make it up as you go along!

Posted by: Kathleen Kennedy at September 13, 2026 12:05 PM (wpRMV)

197 Should have thought this earlier, is screen writing any different from book writing?
Posted by: Skip

I've mentioned my enjoyment of author Anthony Horowitz. His three book Susan Ryeland series have all been made into BBC miniseries and he wrote the screenplays. It's interesting to watch the differences between book and screenplay. Some I understand as just translating to a more visual mode and some I don't. For example, the setting for his latest, Marble Hall Murders, is transferred from the south of France to Cyprus.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Gird Your Loins! at September 13, 2026 12:06 PM (ndZc7)

198 I guess books getting turned into movies do need to be rewritten

Posted by: Skip at September 13, 2026 12:06 PM (Ia/+0)

199 I must go…
Posted by: Sabrina Chase

The Captain having abandoned the ship, the crew was left rudderless and adrift, hatches unbattened, awaiting rescue of the next Big Thing.

Posted by: mindful webworker - Invulnerable at September 13, 2026 12:07 PM (4lnVb)

200 >>I guess books getting turned into movies do need to be rewritten

Which is why so many fans of a book hiss at the movie adaptation.

Posted by: Nazdar at September 13, 2026 12:08 PM (NcvvS)

201 CBD to the rescue

https://acecomments.mu.nu/?post=421351

Posted by: mindful webworker - Invulnerable at September 13, 2026 12:08 PM (4lnVb)

202 Nood.

Posted by: Nazdar at September 13, 2026 12:09 PM (NcvvS)

203 WE HAZ A NOOD

Posted by: Skip at September 13, 2026 12:09 PM (Ia/+0)

204 56 Finished reading Assignment in Utopia by Eugene Lyons (1937)

https://www.city-journal.org/article/the-red-decade-redux

"It may be that the best book that will ever be written about today’s progressive mind-set was published in 1941."
Posted by: 13times at September 13, 2026 09:40 AM (fnZRl)

Great article. I read Whitaker Chamber's "Witness". May have to check out Eugene Lyons too.

Posted by: Joemarine at September 13, 2026 12:39 PM (y171U)

205 Betrayed!
I'm re-editing a book I started over 35 years ago, and am up to chapter 10, then I get a corrupted file on the flash drive I'm using. Ch 10, gone, ch's 8 & 9, lost the ready-to-print files, lost some wip files, not happy obviously. Couldn't recover any lost files, but did recover 8 & 9 from their wips. Ch 10, redoing from the rough drafts (but can't remember all the on the fly edits)
Lesson learned: Save to more than one media (CD now added to routine as primary)
At least I didn't lose ALL my work... :-/
/rant over

Posted by: As Not Seen On TV at September 13, 2026 02:07 PM (dH3Sc)

206 p.s. I don't trust the laptop I use for storing files. I've lost too many computers to drive failures. I treat my computers nice, but they seem to hate me. The feeling is getting mutual...

Posted by: As Not Seen On TV at September 13, 2026 02:11 PM (dH3Sc)

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