Sunday Morning Book Thread 8-16-2026 [Sabrina Chase]

Welcome to the Book Thread, Guest Poster edition! I will be your host as we explore all sorts of book-related topics. All usual Book Thread rules are incorporated by reference (pets, beverage, clothing covering the lower limbs, etc.) with the special Sabrina Chase exemption for those stylish persons preferring kilts. Now let us proceed to today's topic, which is ...

The Importance of Genre

Genre, meaning a category of style or content, is a useful label for fiction. In that context it usually refers to categories like mystery or romance. It has an unfortunate reputation in Literary Circles, where "genre fiction" is dismissed as poorly written schlock, with unrealistic settings (like rocket ships and quaint English villages beset by multiple murders every month). Not like literary fiction, which features yard-long paragraphs and characters such as middle-aged literature professors getting seduced by licentious co-eds. Don't laugh, it could happen! Someday ...

No, the real issue is genre fiction is enjoyed by the masses. A lot. And you don't need a degree in Fine Arts to enjoy it either. Now it is true that the quality can be ... uneven. Some of that is due to the need for LOTS of genre fiction. Writing at what is sometimes called "pulp speed" can create content that is a little rough around the edges. Romance writers are amazing at writing a lot, fast. They have to be, because romance *readers* go through multiple books per WEEK and are always looking for more. Their writing discipline is scary and their marketing chops...well, lets just say all the other genre writers try to imitate it, because romance writers know what works and what doesn't. And boy do they sell a lot of books!

Genre is a shorthand signal for setting reader expectations and makes it easier for you to find just the type of fiction you want to read, giving a hint of the contents without giving the entire plot. It's like the label on a box of cookies. We all know the horror of mistaking an oatmeal raisin cookie for a chocolate chip one! If your mouth is set for oatmeal raisin, the label should say so and then you can enjoy your cookie in peace.

It is the same way with fiction and genre. If you want existential dread, cthonic horror, and Things Man Was Not Meant To Know, a regency romance will not make you happy. Genre is just a label, and does not indicate quality, good or bad. And as we at the Book Thread know, happiness of the reader is the most important thing!

The Sabrina Chase Genre Identification Guide (what readers want)

Romance: the plot focuses on the characters' relationship(s) and feelings
Western: the main character holds true to their code of honor, even at great personal cost
Horror: the plot isn't as important as giving the reader adrenaline spikes of fear.
Science Fiction: plot centers around solving the inciting problem using logic and internally consistent rules. (One rule can be broken from our world, like FTL, but rarely more than that.)
Fantasy: Magic is often a part of the world but not always. the main character is tested and proven after adventure.
YA: Plot and character development focuses on things kids ages 10-16 find important (finding friends, finding Mom, surviving school). Usually, but not always, has less profanity and gratuitous sex and adults sometimes read YA if they want to avoid that stuff.

Each of those has sub-genres, like Regency romance, steampunk fantasy, space opera, and more are getting invented every day, like isekai and LitRPG. In addition, you can have sub-plots of a different genre lurking in the shadows! I write science fiction and fantasy with an emphasis on action and adventure, but there is usually a romantic sub-plot in my books. BUT! I do NOT write romance!

This actually got me in big trouble once. A very nice book reviewer read and enjoyed my science fiction series and posted a glowing review on her site. Unfortunately, she specialized in romance. Her readers were looking for romance. They read her review and bought my book, and HATED it so much they returned it! So I am looking at my Amazon dashboard seeing all the returns and wondering if I forgot to run spellcheck or something. I was quite mystified until I found that review.

Posted by: Open Blogger at 09:00 AM

Comments

(Jump to bottom of comments)

1 Good morning all!

Posted by: Trimegistus at August 16, 2026 08:51 AM (78a2H)

2 Good morning all Bookists! TY Sabrina! Hugely enjoying DH Fischer's Washington's Crossing. My slow reading will mean I will finish in about the time it took for the actual campaign.

Posted by: goatexchange at August 16, 2026 08:54 AM (hyS0X)

3 Seeking in are we?

Posted by: Skip at August 16, 2026 08:55 AM (Ia/+0)

4 Tolle Lege
As was driving right by used book store had to stop in
Picked up The Gathering Storm written by Winston Spencer Churchill
Always wanted to read this

Posted by: Skip at August 16, 2026 08:57 AM (Ia/+0)

5 Someone ran off with the user's manual to the time machine so I had to figure it out on my own. It's hard!

Never mind, we're here now and there's BOOKS!

Posted by: Sabrina Chase at August 16, 2026 08:59 AM (qpqMM)

6 Romance: the plot focuses on the characters' relationship(s) and feelings
----
Huh.

Based on this definition, Dune: Messiah is a romance novel.

Mostly characters just sitting around talking about their feelings and relationships re: prescience.

Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at August 16, 2026 09:01 AM (FZ29D)

7 Booken morgen horden!
Bon jour, Sabrina!

Posted by: vmom deport deport stab deport at August 16, 2026 09:01 AM (Ydd86)

8 I'm going to quibble with Ms. Chase's definitions a little. Western and Science Fiction genres don't have standard stories and themes, instead they are tied to a particular kind of setting.

A Western needs to be connected to the American West. Sure, there are marginal cases — you could put one in Canada or Mexico — but writing a Western set in the West Country of England just wouldn't be a Western. The themes are connected to a culture which exists in a place. It's not just generic "frontier" or "cattle raising" either, as a story in Siberia or on the Pampas of Argentina among Gauchos would have a different culture and a different code.

So you can have funny Westerns, romantic Westerns, Western mystery stories, Western horror stories, etc., but they're still Westerns.

Same for science fiction. The setting (a world or time with some change from our own which is at least vaguely scientifically plausible) can vary widely, the stories can vary widely, the themes can vary widely, but it's still SF.

Posted by: Trimegistus at August 16, 2026 09:03 AM (78a2H)

9 Sabrina, have you ever made your own format template?

Posted by: OrangeEnt at August 16, 2026 09:03 AM (1Ff7Z)

10 Morning, Book Folken! I'm at my desktop computer right now. Let me move back out to the living room laptop and see what I have on my TBR pile.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at August 16, 2026 09:04 AM (wzUl9)

11 Good morning morons and thanks Sabrina

Posted by: San Franpsycho at August 16, 2026 09:04 AM (JvZF+)

12 Boy! This "Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court" isn't at all doing what I expected. Jousting matches? Stupid, says he. Knight-errantry? Profitless. How about heading off in search of the Holy Grail? Suicidal.

Then what is he doing? Establishing commercial businesses (such as soap) to subvert the system of monarchy and nobility -- and the Church -- because he thinks it crushes the spirits of the people. And when you see some of the injustices of the system, you can’t disagree.

Among CY's businesses is a telephone system. That took me aback to realize that it existed in Samuel Clemens' time. He wasn't writing in a primitive era.

Posted by: Weak Geek at August 16, 2026 09:05 AM (+nhNB)

13 Morning, Sabrina.

Howdy, Horde.

IIRC one of Barry Malzberg's essays noted that genre as a marketing tool also meant that a book sold in a category could expect a certain level of sales whether the publisher devoted any effort/$$$ to promoting it or not. With genre work you had at least a slight chance to know where you stood financially. Mainstream or non-genre? Who knew?

Don't know if that holds true today, but it wouldn't surprise me if there was still some validity to it.

Posted by: Just Some Guy at August 16, 2026 09:05 AM (q3u5l)

14 (1 of 2) Last week we were discussing Case of Conscience by James Blish. Tastes vary, but I didn't enjoy that book at all. On top of the bad theology, Blish never made it clear to me why, because all of the alien life on planet were actually developmental forms of the same species (along the lines that an egg -> tadpole -> frog are the same amphibian), that was the clue that the alien species had been created by Satan. I suspect Blish was trying to anti-Christian, but I don't know for certain.

A much more fun (and more thought-provoking) book is The Teloriad by John Ringo and Tom Kratman. This is the sequel to Yellow Eyes, which is straight military sci-fi, set in their Posleen War series. While there are some recurring characters, The Teloriad can be read as a stand-alone story.

Posted by: Retired Buckeye Cop is now an engineer at August 16, 2026 09:07 AM (ksbjf)

15 I've just finished Stephen Hunter's collection of three Swagger family novellas, Front Sight. The third one is a serial killer story with Bob Lee Swagger set in Hot Springs, AR, in 1978, with a neat surprise ending. The other two feature BL's grandfather Charles in 1934 and his father Earl in 1947. Grand evocation of the times in each one. (It's so good not to have computers and cell phones in a story, so that the characters have to work at finding out stuff.)

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at August 16, 2026 09:08 AM (wzUl9)

16 (2 of 2) After the Posleen (think of sentient human-sized reptiles) are defeated, the Posleen set out on a space voyage to find a new home planet. We get insight into their thinking, and learn that the species had been created by ancient aliens playing at being gods.

The Pope sends an missionary expedition in attempt to convert the Posleen to the Catholic Church in order to save their souls. The novel ends with a trial by combat between a detachment of Swiss Guards and a Posleen convert against the pagan Posleen champions.

Christianity ultimately succeeds.

An interesting sci-fi novel that makes a deeper point besides the action. I enjoyed it a lot. Rating = 4.5/5.

Posted by: Retired Buckeye Cop is now an engineer at August 16, 2026 09:09 AM (ksbjf)

17 Yay books!

Wolfus, last week you were looking for a book about convicts on Mars. I found it, title’s Olympus Mons by William Walling. Looks interesting, I’ll have to check if my shelves can accomodate an addition to the TBR pile…

Posted by: Bryce at August 16, 2026 09:10 AM (5GspC)

18 First line follies

In a cupboard underneath the stairs there lived a Hobbit...

Good day, Bookies. Hospital breakfast was tolerable. Fresh nurses' station coffee beats cafeteria (lukewarm) brew. Presumably escaping today.

Daughter & hub were in Dallas & brought me a little Buckees cell phone stand. Big help on reading & composing. But these big beaver eyes staring at me.....

Posted by: mindful webworker - it was a stark and dormy night.... at August 16, 2026 09:11 AM (S3rL0)

19 Also finished: Naomi Novik's The Summer War, a neo-medieval fantasy story with magic affecting much of what the characters say and do. There are knights and swordfights, and a war has been going on for a century between the mortals of Prosper and the land of the immortal summerlings. There's some adventure and danger in the slim volume, but the main story is about the young girl Celia and her relationship with her father and her two brothers. One of whom, the big-time knight, is gay. Though the word is never used in the story.

Not sure I will read any more of her stuff.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at August 16, 2026 09:12 AM (wzUl9)

20 Finished book 4 of Unintended Cultivator, more explicit and more grim than the previous books as the MC deals with anger and feelings of betrayal along with having a fling with the .most beautiful woman on the continent.

Currently reading book 4 of Starbreaker. Ironically, MC of this one is learning to acknowledge that sometimes anger is righteous, but can't be allowed control.

Honestly, I've been reading too much, instead of listening to the books, and it has badly affected my ability to get anything done.

Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette at August 16, 2026 09:14 AM (lFFaq)

21 There's a Krakenbush in that painting...

Posted by: jim (in Kalifornia) at August 16, 2026 09:15 AM (l3cgK)

22 Linda brought home from the ibrary a new Grady Hendrix, Witchcraft for Wayward Girls. I've liked nearly all his stuff so far, so I'm looking forward to this one.

He is great with titles: this one, and The Final Girl Support Group, The Southern Book Club's Guide to Slaying Vampires, How to Sell a Haunted House. You can't ask for much better titling than that.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at August 16, 2026 09:16 AM (wzUl9)

23 Top pic: that really is an impish little firebug about to turn that pleasant little picnic into a conflagration?

Posted by: mindful webworker - hot time in the pasture tonight at August 16, 2026 09:16 AM (S3rL0)

24 Wolfus, last week you were looking for a book about convicts on Mars. I found it, title’s Olympus Mons by William Walling. Looks interesting, I’ll have to check if my shelves can accomodate an addition to the TBR pile…
Posted by: Bryce at August 16, 2026

***
William Walling! That sounds like it.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at August 16, 2026 09:17 AM (wzUl9)

25 Re opening lines:

I see your Hobbit and raise you:

"I always feel guilty smuggling a gun through Mexican customs."

-- who else but Matt Helm ("The Menacers")

Posted by: Weak Geek at August 16, 2026 09:18 AM (+nhNB)

26 Posted by: mindful webworker - it was a stark and dormy night.... at August 16, 2026 09:11 AM (S3rL0)
=====
Prayer for a complete and speedy recovery

Posted by: San Franpsycho at August 16, 2026 09:19 AM (JvZF+)

27 Opening lines? Hard to top:

"We were about to give up and call it a night when somebody dropped the girl off the bridge."

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at August 16, 2026 09:19 AM (wzUl9)

28 21 There's a Krakenbush in that painting...

Posted by: jim (in Kalifornia) at August 16, 2026 09:15 AM (l3cgK)

Croquembouche >>> Krakenbush

Posted by: jim (in Kalifornia) at August 16, 2026 09:19 AM (l3cgK)

29 Sabrina, I'm sorry those readers couldn't handle dipping their toes in another genre. Their loss (well, and yours). I personally like it when genres collide, because that's life.

Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes at August 16, 2026 09:20 AM (kpS4V)

30 I had fun coming up with today's Book Thread art. Yes, that is little YA being a menace and lighting a stick of dynamite. Don't worry, Granpa Western will grab and yeet it before it disturbs the ladies. Or the tentacled horror will do it, if it isn't distracted by the cookies on the table.

Posted by: Sabrina Chase at August 16, 2026 09:20 AM (k+oif)

31 Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at August 16, 2026 09:12 AM (wzUl9)

I *loved* Temeraire (sp?) but all her subsequent books got more presentism as they went along. Sounds like this series starts that way.

Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette at August 16, 2026 09:21 AM (lFFaq)

32 A big omission in the fiction categories is: Mysteries.

Posted by: Retired Buckeye Cop is now an engineer at August 16, 2026 09:21 AM (ksbjf)

33 Wolfus, I was sure you would add that one to the pot.

Posted by: Weak Geek at August 16, 2026 09:22 AM (+nhNB)

34 About 2/3 of the way through Vanity Fair. Guessing Osborne is going to get killed at Waterloo and Dobbin ends up with Amelia, but this doesnt seem like a happy ending book.

Posted by: Biff Pocoroba at August 16, 2026 09:22 AM (XvL8K)

35 After more than a century, it can be hard to fathom the public outcry for General Charles Gordon, trapped in Khartoum, and the demand for military action to save the hero of the British empire. Michael Barthorp details the crisis and the military action in War on the Nile.

Gordon was the hero of the Taiping Rebellion in China, where, regularly outnumbered, his forces always found victory. The next firestorm occurred in the Sudan, where the Mahdi overthrew the government, putting the Suez Canal at risk, and Britain sent Gordon to protect their interests. Unfortunately, he became trapped in Khartoum, and public outcry demanded a rescue.

Britain dithered in their response until it was too late; Gordon and 10,000 besieged men in Khartoum were killed, to British outrage. Herbert Kitchener finally led a British force up the Nile to revenge Gordon in 1898. They caught the Mahdi's 50,000 man army at Omdurman, and won a lopsided battle, which featured the last operational cavalry charge in British history, and included a young lieutenant named Winston Churchill. The canal was now safe, and the headless body of the Mahdi was thrown into the Nile, a symbolic revenge for Gordon.

Posted by: Thomas Paine at August 16, 2026 09:23 AM (0U5gm)

36 Is historical fiction considered a genre or is it just fiction?

Posted by: dantesed at August 16, 2026 09:25 AM (Oy/m2)

37 Lovecraftian romantasy would a very strange genre to read but I’m sure it exists.

Posted by: Perfessor Sqiurrel at August 16, 2026 09:26 AM (dX6+n)

38 Most of my reading life has been in genre fiction. Back in the '80s, in an attempt to improve my writing style and learn about the simple declarative sentence, I studied a lot of the mainstream authors: Hemingway, Steinbeck (whom I still love), Harper Lee, Capote, Dorothy Parker, and John O'Hara (meh). But invariably I come back to the true *story,* the tale of adventure or mystery or horror or sometimes all three. Now I appreciate the good genre writers' writing because of my "research" into non-genre. If you want to write, you have to be aware of Hemingway and other non-genre people, even if you don't like them.

At a con in the '80s, somebody complained he didn't like the ending to Heinlein's penultimate novel, The Cat Who Walks Through Walls. I blinked at him. "You want to be a writer, and you've never read and don't recognize the basic ending to For Whom the Bell Tolls?" He didn't know what I was talking about.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at August 16, 2026 09:26 AM (wzUl9)

39 After repeated starts and stops, and keeping it on my currently-being-read shelf for far too long, I finally finished reading "The Warlord by Mike Grell, Omnibus 1." It's a sword and sorcery comic that takes a lot of inspiration from Edgar Rice Burrough's "Pellucidar" setting. A pilot from the modern day (well, the then-modern 70's) cashes his plane in the arctic, falls down a giant hole, and finds himself in the hollow-earth. There, humans live like barbarians, fending off constant attacks from each other, sorcerers, and random monsters, living among the ruins of abandoned ancient technology. The pilot quickly adapts to the setting, and becomes a wandering adventurer nicknamed The Warlord.

The comics are enjoyable, provided you have the proper expectations. The story doesn't have any grand over-arching quest, and instead follows the lets-throw-a-new-threat-at-our-hero format. That's probably great when reading the story on monthly basis, but it's not quite as satisfying when read in a single volume. But, as hinted by the title, the comic is written and drawn in its entirety by Mike Grell, so has a unity of style that many comic book collections lack!

Posted by: Castle Guy at August 16, 2026 09:27 AM (3v7ra)

40 I *loved* Temeraire (sp?) but all her subsequent books got more presentism as they went along. Sounds like this series starts that way.
Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette

presentism
Perfect word for it

Posted by: vmom deport deport stab deport at August 16, 2026 09:27 AM (Ydd86)

41 Reading this week -

A couple of Bradbury stories. After watching Bertrand Tavernier's film Death Watch (Romy Schneider and Harvey Keitel, and not bad) revisited the source novel, D. G. Compton's The Continuous Katherine Mortenhoe (which is better than the movie). Also revisited Don Robertson's The Ideal Genuine Man, as dark and grim a book as you could want; in his foreword to the novel, Stephen King said he thought Robertson had outdone himself with this one. For me, Robertson's best are Praise the Human Season, Miss Margaret Ridpath and the Dismantling of the Universe, and Mystical Union (love those titles); but The Ideal Genuine Man is quite a read. It is, of course, out of print as is most of Robertson's work.

Posted by: Just Some Guy at August 16, 2026 09:27 AM (q3u5l)

42 Wolfus, I was sure you would add that one to the pot.
Posted by: Weak Geek at August 16, 2026

***
Oh, the mystery? Yes, I should have thought of it.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at August 16, 2026 09:28 AM (wzUl9)

43 Posted by: Thomas Paine at August 16, 2026 09:23 AM (0U5gm)
I read Churchill's book on his experiences there several years ago. He mentioned that camels *can* go a long time without water, but it's very bad for them and most of them died (or had to be slaughtered) after a brutal forced march.

Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette at August 16, 2026 09:28 AM (lFFaq)

44 No, the real issue is genre fiction is enjoyed by the masses. A lot. And you don't need a degree in Fine Arts to enjoy it either. Now it is true that the quality can be ... uneven. Some of that is due to the need for LOTS of genre fiction. Writing at what is sometimes called "pulp speed" can create content that is a little rough around the edges. Romance writers are amazing at writing a lot, fast. They have to be, because romance *readers* go through multiple books per WEEK and are always looking for more. Their writing discipline is scary and their marketing chops...well, lets just say all the other genre writers try to imitate it, because romance writers know what works and what doesn't. And boy do they sell a lot of books!

Funnily enough, there's a vid I linked to at A Literary Horde - a fine resource for Horde writers, if they want to use it - yesterday from a YTer I don't know, who discusses why some books don't sell. She talks about romance writers and why they are successful - and how you can be successful too*

https://tinyurl.com/msp7z6t6

* work fast, and write a series.

Posted by: OrangeEnt at August 16, 2026 09:28 AM (1Ff7Z)

45 Historical fiction is a genre but it can overlap with others (e.g. western or gothic).

Posted by: Perfessor Squirrel at August 16, 2026 09:30 AM (dX6+n)

46 Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at August 16, 2026 09:26 AM (wzUl9)

Never read For Whom the Bell Tolls. Everyone dies at the end?

Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette at August 16, 2026 09:30 AM (lFFaq)

47 The other thing about genre is that, when a literary type tries his hand at it, he often gets some of its conventions right, but rarely all of them. I guess Brave New World and 1984 are exceptions. A literary writer trying a mystery or an SF novel often leaves me feeling like something is missing, like I've put my foot down on a stairstep that isn't there.

As much as I like a lot of their work, I have trouble imagining Truman Capote writing a successful classical mystery, or Steinbeck an SF tale. ("Successful" as in "The story works," not necessariy successful in sales.)

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at August 16, 2026 09:32 AM (wzUl9)

48 Sabrina, are you aware of another, lesser-known author, John Hundley, who also writes about a red wolf?

Posted by: Buck Ofama at August 16, 2026 09:33 AM (z6ONu)

49 Posted by: vmom deport deport stab deport at August 16, 2026 09:27 AM (Ydd86)

Can't take credit for it. Don't remember where I picked it up. Probably on the Book Thread a couple of years ago.

Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette at August 16, 2026 09:33 AM (lFFaq)

50 Caedite eos. Novit enim Dominus qui sunt eius ("Kill them all. Let God sort them out.") -- an anti-Cathar papal legate, when asked how the Catholic soldiers might sort out the Cathars from the innocent

I'm reading "Witches: A History of Witchcraft, Witch-Hunters, and a King's Obsession: 1562-1735" by Steven Veerapen

Surely the eruption of accusations and trials proved that there was a witchcraft problem?! If you protest, you must be a secret convert to the Devil.

Interesting that the widening use of the printing press popularized and widened the discussion with sensationalistic pamphlets.

Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes at August 16, 2026 09:33 AM (kpS4V)

51 Never read For Whom the Bell Tolls. Everyone dies at the end?
Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette at August 16, 2026

***
Probably. We don't know for sure. But it is a heroic ending.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at August 16, 2026 09:33 AM (wzUl9)

52 Each of those has sub-genres

Another warning about genres from various YTers: Ghost categories that Amazon doesn't promote. Put your book in them, you'll never be listed as a best seller in the category, leaving your book to languish in a no sales ghetto.

Posted by: OrangeEnt at August 16, 2026 09:33 AM (1Ff7Z)

53 A lot of talk about Young Washington movie....very little about Mr. Vinings' Colonial Nightmare...cool little jaunt..

Posted by: qmark at August 16, 2026 09:33 AM (hzpDl)

54 37 Lovecraftian romantasy would a very strange genre to read but I’m sure it exists.

I once dared a fellow writer to write a book in a genre that didn't exist, Post-apocalyptic Cosy Mystery. She did it

Posted by: Sabrina Chase at August 16, 2026 09:34 AM (k+oif)

55 I started Dungeon Crawler Carl last night. The writing style reminds me a lot of Larry Correia's Monster Hunter books. Here's a world to explore, it'll be fun to read, don't think too much about it and just enjoy the ride. My wife and kiddo plowed through the series and loved it, so we have all the books.

Posted by: PabloD at August 16, 2026 09:34 AM (zDDmD)

56 I read Churchill's book on his experiences there several years ago. He mentioned that camels *can* go a long time without water, but it's very bad for them and most of them died (or had to be slaughtered) after a brutal forced march.

Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette

They can drink several gallons at a time when thirsty, which must be hard on their system. I was in the empty quarter several years ago, and ran across a camel that had died of thirst.

Posted by: Thomas Paine at August 16, 2026 09:34 AM (0U5gm)

57 I read Churchill's book on his experiences there several years ago. He mentioned that camels *can* go a long time without water, but it's very bad for them and most of them died (or had to be slaughtered) after a brutal forced march.
Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette at August 16, 2026

***
Another great title: Elizabeth Peters, The Last Camel Died at Noon.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at August 16, 2026 09:35 AM (wzUl9)

58 I dimly recall (from high school days) Herman Wouk taking a stab at sf with something called The Lomokome Papers (?). Not his finest hour.

Posted by: Just Some Guy at August 16, 2026 09:35 AM (q3u5l)

59 Among CY's businesses is a telephone system. That took me aback to realize that it existed in Samuel Clemens' time. He wasn't writing in a primitive era.
Posted by: Weak Geek at August 16, 2026 09:05 AM (+nhNB)

Well, yeah. The telephone was demonstrated at the 1876 Centennial Exposition. Been around for a long time.

Posted by: OrangeEnt at August 16, 2026 09:36 AM (1Ff7Z)

60 Here's something that sort of relates to this week's theme: the genre of the "Warlord" comic I just finished. When I first heard of the book I became really excited, because it was a sword and sorcery comic that wasn't Conan! (Conan is great, but I did want some variety) Alas, I became less excited as soon I learned the sub-genre of Warlord. It's a modern-day-hero in a fantasy-land story. The real-world connection is supposed to make the story and hero easier to relate to, but for me it does the opposite. The modern-day protagonist always breaks immersion for me. If I see a guy swinging a sword at a monster, I want that guy to feel like be an actual barbarian. (or knight, or ranger, or whatever) I don't want him to be making some crack about how the monster is just as bad as the IRS...

The incongruity may have been easier to take if played into the plot; if the hero uses his modern-dayness to his advantage, or if the story is about how the hero adapts to the new setting...But at least in The Warlord, they skip all that, and the main character immediately becomes an expert in all things barbarian. At least for me, it was a missed opportunity...

Posted by: Castle Guy at August 16, 2026 09:36 AM (3v7ra)

61 Fenelon Spoke, last week I said I enjoyed Eric Metaxas's work on the Great Awakening, but I think that was a part of his book "If You Can Keep It: the Forgotten Promise by of American Liberty".

I think.

Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes at August 16, 2026 09:36 AM (kpS4V)

62 I lived enjoyed Naomi Novik'd Temeraire thru, I forget book 3 maybe, then the wokeness was too much for me.
I also enjoyed books1-2 of her dark academia trilogy, but book 3 was bleh.

There is a new to me author H G Parry whose historical fantasy A DECLARATION OF THE RIGHTS OF MAGICIANS was great. Sequel was also good.

She has a new book this year, gonna try it.

Posted by: vmom deport deport stab deport at August 16, 2026 09:36 AM (Ydd86)

63 I once dared a fellow writer to write a book in a genre that didn't exist, Post-apocalyptic Cosy Mystery. She did it
Posted by: Sabrina Chase at August 16, 2026 09:34 AM (k+oif)

Is it available?

Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette at August 16, 2026 09:37 AM (lFFaq)

64 Good morning fellow Book Threadists. I hope everyone had a great week of reading.

TY to Sabrina for the thread and her insights into publishing realities. Also, love that top image. It has representatives of most fiction genres. I especially like the tentacle sneaking in on the right.

Posted by: JTB at August 16, 2026 09:37 AM (yTvNw)

65 Never read For Whom the Bell Tolls. Everyone dies at the end?
Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette

Spoiler alert:
It tolls for thee

Posted by: vmom deport deport stab deport at August 16, 2026 09:38 AM (Ydd86)

66 6 Romance: the plot focuses on the characters' relationship(s) and feelings
----
Huh.

Based on this definition, Dune: Messiah is a romance novel.

Mostly characters just sitting around talking about their feelings and relationships re: prescience.
Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at August 16, 2026 09:01 AM (FZ29D)

That....That does not make me want to read Dune: Messiah... Is it 'feelings in hallways' like a CW show, or do they at least have grand backdrops when they sit around?

Posted by: Castle Guy at August 16, 2026 09:38 AM (3v7ra)

67 (It's so good not to have computers and cell phones in a story, so that the characters have to work at finding out stuff.)
Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at August 16, 2026 09:08 AM (wzUl9)

Yeah, that's one reason I set the Richard Allen mystery stories in postwar America. Pretty hard to not solve something with computers and cell phones to consult for knowledge or a person's whereabouts.

Posted by: OrangeEnt at August 16, 2026 09:39 AM (1Ff7Z)

68 Another great title: Elizabeth Peters, The Last Camel Died at Noon.
Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius

That series is so fun!

Posted by: vmom deport deport stab deport at August 16, 2026 09:39 AM (Ydd86)

69 Wait. So these Posleen (sentient human-sized reptiles) have eternal souls?

Uh huh. Got it.

Posted by: Quarter Twenty at August 16, 2026 09:39 AM (2Ez/1)

70 I dimly recall (from high school days) Herman Wouk taking a stab at sf with something called The Lomokome Papers (?). Not his finest hour.
Posted by: Just Some Guy at August 16, 2026

***
Was that the title? I thought he did something about a new particle being discovered in physics, and its consequences. Maybe that was it?

P.D. James didn't do badly with her Children of Men SF story, in which it becomes obvious that human beings are no longer able to reproduce (thanks to a virus, I think) and will go extinct in less than a hundred years.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at August 16, 2026 09:40 AM (wzUl9)

71 P.D. James didn't do badly with her Children of Men SF story, in which it becomes obvious that human beings are no longer able to reproduce (thanks to a virus, I think) and will go extinct in less than a hundred years.
Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at August 16, 2026

***
Bu then, James was a mystery writer, thus genre by definition.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at August 16, 2026 09:41 AM (wzUl9)

72 Another great title: Elizabeth Peters, The Last Camel Died at Noon.
Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at August 16, 2026 09:35 AM (wzUl9)

I've read several of hers, but not that one. Sounds like an Amelia Peabody story. Kind of went off those when she had a murderer killing people to suppress a Gnostic "gospel" that Amelia's expedition had found.

Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette at August 16, 2026 09:41 AM (lFFaq)

73 I have to agree about A Case of Conscience. Blish wanted to write theological SF but I don't think he put in much effort to actually learn the theology. Ironically, the future Earth society is the least convincing part of the story, not the alien world.

He did slightly better in Black Easter.

Posted by: Trimegistus at August 16, 2026 09:41 AM (78a2H)

74
Those are the minuscule and uncommon Grape Cluster Bats hanging in their telltale grape cluster formation in that tree. No bat of that species wants to be "First!" because it will become weighted down by all the other bats that swarm in to create the cluster.

Posted by: Krebs v Carnot: Epic Battle of the Cycling Stars (TM) at August 16, 2026 09:41 AM (I1Vkr)

75 That....That does not make me want to read Dune: Messiah... Is it 'feelings in hallways' like a CW show, or do they at least have grand backdrops when they sit around?
Posted by: Castle Guy at August 16, 2026 09:38 AM (3v7ra)
—-
It’s mostly like a CW show with a few grand backdrops. The book is about 80% dialogue. Nothing much happens at all.

Posted by: Perfessor Squirrel at August 16, 2026 09:41 AM (dX6+n)

76 (It's so good not to have computers and cell phones in a story, so that the characters have to work at finding out stuff.)
Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at August 16, 2026
*
Yeah, that's one reason I set the Richard Allen mystery stories in postwar America. Pretty hard to not solve something with computers and cell phones to consult for knowledge or a person's whereabouts.
Posted by: OrangeEnt at August 16, 2026

***
That, and it's so hard for a villain or murderer to *conceal* things!

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at August 16, 2026 09:42 AM (wzUl9)

77 A key aspect of the Warlord is that it's sword and sorcery -- and firearms. Morgan uses his .44 a lot. (The question of where does he get fresh ammo is waved away.)

Oh, and beautiful scantily clad women.

Posted by: Weak Geek at August 16, 2026 09:43 AM (+nhNB)

78
Another great title: Elizabeth Peters, The Last Camel Died at Noon.
Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius

Autopsy showed that camel was high at the time of its death.

Posted by: Krebs v Carnot: Epic Battle of the Cycling Stars (TM) at August 16, 2026 09:44 AM (I1Vkr)

79 I have to agree about A Case of Conscience. Blish wanted to write theological SF but I don't think he put in much effort to actually learn the theology. Ironically, the future Earth society is the least convincing part of the story, not the alien world.

He did slightly better in Black Easter.
Posted by: Trimegistus at August 16, 2026

***
Black Easter is one of my favorite fantasy novels of all time. It has a . . . flavor . . . that will stay with you for a long while after you read it.

The scene where the young assistant is visited by the succubus is a classic.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at August 16, 2026 09:44 AM (wzUl9)

80 Just wondering how you would prove to a court of law accusations of lycanthropy, sorcery, flying on enchanted chairs, invisibility, or demonic pacts.

Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes at August 16, 2026 09:45 AM (kpS4V)

81 Not sure I will read any more of her stuff.
Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at August 16, 2026 09:12 AM (wzUl9)

If more people would stop reading stuff with characters like the knight, inserted for the sake of showing them as heroes and better than dumb hick haters, then the stories would start disappearing. The introduction for homosexual characters usually are to highlight and promote them - not including yours in MTM, or the one in my unpublished RA mystery. Does their predilection help the story, or is it merely to signal?

Posted by: OrangeEnt at August 16, 2026 09:45 AM (1Ff7Z)

82 TY to Sabrina for the thread and her insights into publishing realities. Also, love that top image. It has representatives of most fiction genres. I especially like the tentacle sneaking in on the right.
Posted by: JTB at August 16, 2026

***
I didn't notice that!

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at August 16, 2026 09:46 AM (wzUl9)

83 Genres: 10th grade (ancient history). English teacher asks the class for the difference between SF & Fantasy. I'm a new shy kid at the school, trying to keep an invisible profile, but not a hand went up, and, hey! I know this one! Nerd knowledge FTW. I even used the FTL example for SF.

Thank you Professor Asimov. And Star Trek. Although Trek had a lot of science tweaks, and frequently lapped over into Fantasy.

Posted by: mindful webworker - beam me up, Gandalf at August 16, 2026 09:46 AM (S3rL0)

84 Polliwog the 'Ette, the Post-apocalyptic cosy mystery is Toxic to Touch by Juliet Chase. Yes, my sister

Available on Amazon.

Posted by: Sabrina Chase at August 16, 2026 09:47 AM (k+oif)

85 On at least two occasions, Theodore Sturgeon took mainstream stories that had failed to sell to the slicks (what were the editors drinking on those days?), introduced sf elements to give them the genre trappings and sold 'em both.

The stories are "A Saucer of Loneliness" and "Hurricane Trio." Both well worth a look.

Posted by: Just Some Guy at August 16, 2026 09:48 AM (q3u5l)

86 I bet Steinbeck could have written a decent SF story. He wasn't just about okies and drunks in Monterey. He wrote a comic novel about the restoration of monarchy in 1960s France — _The Short Reign of Pepin IV_, and he did a prose version of the Arthurian legends. He might have done something about hard-luck asteroid miners, or eccentric characters at a remote research station orbiting Jupiter.

Posted by: Trimegistus at August 16, 2026 09:49 AM (78a2H)

87 If more people would stop reading stuff with characters like the knight, inserted for the sake of showing them as heroes and better than dumb hick haters, then the stories would start disappearing. The introduction for homosexual characters usually are to highlight and promote them - not including yours in MTM, or the one in my unpublished RA mystery. Does their predilection help the story, or is it merely to signal?
Posted by: OrangeEnt at August 16, 2026

***
I'll give Novik this, that the "haters" are few and far between in this novel. Except for the knight's father -- who seems mostly upset that his son doesn't want to inherit his title and have more children in their line -- everybody seems to accept the fact of his orientation and not worry about it.

I chose to make my professor gay in MTM because I didn't want any possibility of a romance between him and his woman assistant, the narrator. Yes, it occurred to me that it could check a box for an editor, but that was not really why I did it.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at August 16, 2026 09:49 AM (wzUl9)

88 After more than a century, it can be hard to fathom the public outcry for General Charles Gordon, trapped in Khartoum

Ah yes, Gordon.

If MP4 shows, he may remember a joke from Fun Fare about Gordon.

It went something like this: A man and his little boy were looking at a statue of Gordon on a camel. The boy asked his Dad, "who is that?"

The man said, "That's Gordon. A great hero."

The boy replied. "Dad, who's that man on Gordon?"

Posted by: OrangeEnt at August 16, 2026 09:50 AM (1Ff7Z)

89
I re-read Vonnegut's "The Sirens of Titan". I will get around to my other favorite work of his, "Cat's Cradle", at some point in the near future. Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't "Slaughterhouse Five" the only work of his that has been made into a movie?

In a punctual way of speaking, "good bye".

Posted by: Krebs v Carnot: Epic Battle of the Cycling Stars (TM) at August 16, 2026 09:51 AM (I1Vkr)

90 I bet Steinbeck could have written a decent SF story. He wasn't just about okies and drunks in Monterey. He wrote a comic novel about the restoration of monarchy in 1960s France — _The Short Reign of Pepin IV_, and he did a prose version of the Arthurian legends. He might have done something about hard-luck asteroid miners, or eccentric characters at a remote research station orbiting Jupiter.
Posted by: Trimegistus at August 16, 2026

***
That sounds intriguing!

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at August 16, 2026 09:51 AM (wzUl9)

91 80 Just wondering how you would prove to a court of law accusations of lycanthropy, sorcery, flying on enchanted chairs, invisibility, or demonic pacts.
Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes at August 16, 2026 09:45 AM (kpS4V)

You tell the court that it happened to you personally.

But then add “it got better”.

Posted by: Tom Servo at August 16, 2026 09:51 AM (TCmq7)

92 I'm not a fan of Book Tube videos on YT. Too many how to read dozens of books a day or similar unrealistic (or even vaguely possible) topics. But it has its uses when it comes to introducing people to classic literature and appreciating what books can bring to your life.

A recent trend, however, is positive: a certain topic for a month. June was 'June on the range' about westerns. The latest is 'To Sea in September'. Should be fun. Pirates, exploration, naval battles or ship development, history, it could all qualify. Several Book Tuber hosts are in on it. If nothing else I'll be curious to see what books are mentioned.

Posted by: JTB at August 16, 2026 09:52 AM (yTvNw)

93 On at least two occasions, Theodore Sturgeon took mainstream stories that had failed to sell to the slicks (what were the editors drinking on those days?), introduced sf elements to give them the genre trappings and sold 'em both.

The stories are "A Saucer of Loneliness" and "Hurricane Trio." Both well worth a look.
Posted by: Just Some Guy at August 16, 2026

***
I've read "Saucer," but not the other.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at August 16, 2026 09:52 AM (wzUl9)

94 I *loved* Temeraire (sp?) but all her subsequent books got more presentism as they went along. Sounds like this series starts that way.
Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette at August 16, 2026 09:21 AM (lFFaq)

That's a good explanation for why I bailed on the Temeraire series. Novick spent all the time and effort setting up a parallel dragon-riding society, just so that she could have the protagonist could give that society modern-day sensibilities. That, and her parallel-society made no sense. There was no reason for dragon-rider to be so secretive and weird and cut off from the rest of the world. In fact, the real world provided an alternate example; the parallel-society of sailors! Not only were they not isolated and secretive, but sailor lingo and mannerism seeped into all levels of society!

So, there are some dragons that only accept women as riders. That's a little weird, sure, but its real (in the story) and militarily important. It's not likely to be kept a secret. (in the country that hade Queen Elizabeth!). It's far more likely that it would become a societal norm to label every tomboy or overly-willful-daughter a 'spitfire,' or whatever that dragon-type was called.

Posted by: Castle Guy at August 16, 2026 09:52 AM (3v7ra)

95 I think Vonnegut's Breakfast of Champions was also filmed, but I've never seen it. Ditto Mother Night. There was a PBS American Playhouse short film from Vonnegut's story "Who Am I This Time?" with Christopher Walken and Susan Sarandon, and it's delightful.

Posted by: Just Some Guy at August 16, 2026 09:54 AM (q3u5l)

96 I've been reading/listening to a new to me author named Phillip Quaintrell. Straight up fantasy with elves, dwarves, dragons, swords, etc. Very much Lord of the Rings types of books without hobbits. I'm enjoying the books. There is very little profanity, in fact it feels shocking when it does turn up. He has about 15 books out so a good amount to keep me occupied for a while. I have taken a break after 6 books to listen to The Correspondent by Virginia Evans for my book club. I'm really enjoying the narration but I'm still not sure what is going on yet.

Posted by: lin-duh at August 16, 2026 09:54 AM (VCgbV)

97 In one of the Flashman series, there's an offhand comment about Harry being responsible for the Khartoum disaster, but Fraser never got around to giving an account.

Posted by: Biff Pocoroba at August 16, 2026 09:55 AM (XvL8K)

98
I an reading William Gibson's "Neuromancer" at the moment. It is not a "pick up and read a chapter or so at a time" work. As the video adaptation of it will be released in January 2027, I am going to have to block out time between now and then to attain a better understanding of what was going on in the story and why.

Posted by: Krebs v Carnot: Epic Battle of the Cycling Stars (TM) at August 16, 2026 09:56 AM (I1Vkr)

99 I hadn't realized Naomi Novik was the author of the dragons-in-the-Napoleonic-Era novel, His majesty's Dragon, I read some years ago. At the time I thought it rather an original concept, but I didn't have a desire to read any more in the series, so I guess it didn't click with me.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at August 16, 2026 09:57 AM (wzUl9)

100 For those who care, the 2027 Old Farmer's Almanac is due out on August 25. Yes. I look forward to it every year.

Posted by: JTB at August 16, 2026 09:59 AM (yTvNw)

101 By the time of Khartoum Flashman would have been getting on in years, so he probably didn't screw up in the Sudan. Maybe he embezzled the funds Gordon needed for supplies.

Posted by: Trimegistus at August 16, 2026 10:00 AM (78a2H)

102 it becomes obvious that human beings are no longer able to reproduce (thanks to a virus, I think) and will go extinct in less than a hundred years.
Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at August 16, 2026 09:40 AM (wzUl9)

A woke virus?

I'd say it's probably because guys are tired of seeing fat, ugly, pierced and tattooed up, danger-hair girls all over society, harping on how men are bad bad bad! So the men say, "Hello, Rosie P."

Posted by: OrangeEnt at August 16, 2026 10:01 AM (1Ff7Z)

103 Finally finished Dan Simmons' "Drood," and rate it an 8 of 10. I enjoyed Simmons' efforts to make writers Charles Dickens and Wilkie Collins into interesting and possibly demonically-possessed murderers, but ultimately I think the book is really about nothing more complicated and dramatic than opium addiction.

Now have moved on to Simmons' "The Terror," which is about the failed Franklin Expedition in the 1840s to discover the Northwest Passage. Very interesting story so far.

Posted by: Sharkman at August 16, 2026 10:01 AM (/RHNq)

104
I think Vonnegut's Breakfast of Champions was also filmed, but I've never seen it.

Just Some Guy

The subtle commentary about our times in that work was the reference to a Crispus Attucks of Boston Massacre fame in the form of there being a Crispus Attucks High School that was referred to in the vernacular as "Innocent Bystander High.

Posted by: Krebs v Carnot: Epic Battle of the Cycling Stars (TM) at August 16, 2026 10:02 AM (I1Vkr)

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