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Can we afford utopian education?

The thinker Laren 1903.jpg

The Thinker, Singer Museum, Laren, The Netherlands

Public Education

Yesterday, I ran across a somewhat too-hagiographic piece on social media attributing the beginning of publicly funded education in the USA to Robert Dale Owen, a guy who had been involved in some failed utopian projects:


Robert Dale Owen (born Nov. 9, 1801, Glasgow, Scot.—died June 24, 1877, Lake George, N.Y., U.S.) was an American social reformer and politician. The son of the English reformer Robert Owen, Robert Dale Owen was steeped in his father’s socialist philosophy while growing up at New Lanark in Scotland—the elder Owen’s model industrial community. In 1825, father and son immigrated to the United States to set up another self-sufficient socialist community at New Harmony, Ind.

Robert Dale Owen edited the community’s newspaper, the New Harmony Gazette, until 1827, when he became associated with the controversial reformer Fanny Wright. They traveled together to Wright’s experimental community of Nashoba, Tenn., which was dedicated to the education and gradual emancipation of slaves, and from there went on to Europe.

Upon returning to the United States, Owen and Wright revisited the Nashoba and New Harmony communities, then in a state of decay. They settled in New York, where Owen edited the Free Enquirer. The paper opposed evangelical religion and advocated more liberal divorce laws, more equal distribution of wealth, and widespread industrial education; it was at the centre of radical free thought in New York. For two years, Owen, with Wright and other radicals, sought to turn the New York Workingmen’s Party away from Thomas Skidmore’s belief in an equal division of property. They successfully ousted Skidmore, but later their own program of social reform through public education was also repudiated.

After a brief trip to England in 1832, Owen returned to New Harmony. He served three terms in the Indiana legislature (1836–183, where he advocated the allocation of government funds for public schools, and two terms in the U.S. House of Representatives, where he introduced the bill creating the Smithsonian Institution. . .

He didn't stop there in his efforts to reform society, but concerning his involvement in how the Smithsonian was set up:

* * * * *

Higher Education in the Past

And:

YOU REALLY NEED TO UNDERSTAND WHAT WE'RE UP AGAINST:

The story behind the New York Times' 1903 claim that human flight was between one and ten million years away is even worse than it looks.

Once you understand the backstory, you realize that the New York Times story is not really about flight at all but about how elites and credentialed "experts" mistake their own failures for the boundaries of possibility.

So, how do we help young people in the Day of AI?

* * * * *

No more take-home tests

* * * * *

No more Bolshevik professors, either

* * * * *

WEEKEND

The Week In Pictures: Goodbye, Nazi Edition

The week began with Independence Day, and it featured a lot of World Cup action. If you can call anything that happens in soccer action. Europe sweltered under a non-air conditioned heat wave, and the Iran conflict resumed. But what motivated meme-makers more than anything else was the spectacular implosion of the Graham Platner Senate campaign. I suppose because it was so unexpected: who would have imagined that the campaign of a Nazi-tattooed Communist would come to grief?

* * * * *

Music

Jay and the Americans

* * * * *

Hope you have something nice planned for this weekend.

This is the Thread before the Gardening Thread.

Serving your mid-day open thread needs


* * * * *

Last week's thread, Happy 250th Anniversary!

Comments are closed so you won't ban yourself by trying to comment on a week-old thread. But don't try it anyway.

Notable comment:

165 Dear America, Happy 250th Birthday!

I'm Canadian and, unlike far too many up here, I think the USA is the best neighbor and friend any country could ask for.

I wish I could have crashed the party 'cause it looks like everyone who is not a lefty is having a blast.

Posted by: all doubt removed at July 04, 2026 01:25 PM


Posted by: K.T. at 11:17 AM




Comments

(Jump to bottom of comments)

1 St!

Posted by: Matthew Kant Cipher at July 11, 2026 11:22 AM (kOluj)

2 They're not public schools.
They're government schools.

Posted by: Please make a note of it at July 11, 2026 11:22 AM (2Ez/1)

3 Jeez. Only one here?

Posted by: MkY at July 11, 2026 11:23 AM (Cieih)

4 Nooded. Morning, KT!

Posted by: Matthew Kant Cipher at July 11, 2026 11:23 AM (kOluj)

5 Im peddling honey by a nursery.
Slow day for both of us

Posted by: MkY at July 11, 2026 11:24 AM (Cieih)

6 Can we afford utopian education?

It's the farthest thing from utopian. It's a system built on envy of those who have more than the self-anointed "best and brightest". One of my favorite quotes:

“One may question whether real civilisation is so safely afloat, that we can afford to use our pens for boring holes in the bottom of it.”
-F.L. Lucas

Posted by: Archimedes at July 11, 2026 11:24 AM (Riz8t)

7 Great quote archimedes

Posted by: MkY at July 11, 2026 11:25 AM (Cieih)

8 It's a system built on envy of those who have more than the self-anointed "best and brightest".


YOU REALLY NEED TO UNDERSTAND WHAT WE'RE UP AGAINST:

The story behind the New York Times' 1903 claim that human flight was between one and ten million years away is even worse than it looks.

Once you understand the backstory, you realize that the New York Times story is not really about flight at all but about how elites and credentialed "experts" mistake their own failures for the boundaries of possibility.


Exactly as I said.

Posted by: Archimedes at July 11, 2026 11:28 AM (Riz8t)

9 "She built her name on one rule: no one should be caged for their beliefs."

I mean, some of them you just shoot because it isn't worth the money and effort to cage them.

But generally, no, fuck you lady, some "people" don't get to live among us.

Posted by: heya at July 11, 2026 11:29 AM (ctAuL)

10 The left kills people and says it is free speech

Then the left kills people engaging in free speech and says "actions have consequences".

Posted by: 18-1 at July 11, 2026 11:30 AM (sKqQm)

11 U.S. Military Updates Physical Fitness Standards — the Anti-“Body Shaming” Crowd Is Going to Hate This
. . . .
Soldiers will be required to maintain a waist-to-height ratio of less than 0.55 under the Army’s updated body standards.

-
Apparently, I'm overqualified.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Fat, Dumb, and Happy at July 11, 2026 11:31 AM (ndZc7)

12 I wonder what fraction of these students hail from a culture with an elaborate & institutionalized millennia-long tradition of cheating on standardized tests https://t.co/fFl54YELIw

==

LOL, I like the last three, Midterm score - 100%, Final - 0%.

Posted by: runner at July 11, 2026 11:31 AM (GD0B3)

13 It's a system built on envy of those who have more than the self-anointed "best and brightest".

And again, here's another quote from F.L. Lucas. I think this guy has potential.

“Thence it is possible to arrive by easy stages at the happy notion, not uncommon among 'intellectuals', that taste consists of distaste, and that the loftiest of pleasures is that of feeling displeased; and thus to end by enjoying almost nothing in literature but one's own opinions, while oneself incapable of writing a living sentence.”

Posted by: Archimedes at July 11, 2026 11:32 AM (Riz8t)

14 I can't read, brah! What up with that there exam ??

Posted by: runner at July 11, 2026 11:32 AM (GD0B3)

15 Angela Davis is a piece of shit commie. Her shotgun should have been placed against her own head, preferably when she was mentoring Barry Soetoro.

Posted by: Rev. Wishbone at July 11, 2026 11:34 AM (KttFr)

16
I have seen results like those.
Way back when I took Econ 1 and econ 2 in summer school at a State U. Out of 20 people 2 of us got over 95% and the rest were in the 30% area.
The instructor said 'I cant curve these results'. It was to late for them to drop the class, bummer for them.

Posted by: AZ deplorable moron at July 11, 2026 11:36 AM (NnhvP)

17 If that Canadian quoted here is still here:

The 100th anniversary of Confederation was from all appearances a pretty big deal. I remember barely a peep about the 150th back in 2017. What was that?

I’m suspecting it was due to leadership. PM Trudeau was in power after all.

Posted by: Cow Demon at July 11, 2026 11:36 AM (4g5V+)

18 Buh bye.

California’s Controversial $20-an-Hour Minimum Wage Leading to Fast Food Hotspots Closing

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Fat, Dumb, and Happy at July 11, 2026 11:36 AM (ndZc7)

19 I could meet the height/weight but not the physical or age requirement. My uniforms from 30 years ago still fit.

Posted by: Eromero at July 11, 2026 11:37 AM (LHPAg)

20 Take home tests chart - props to the guy who scored 59 in take home and 55 in person
Either very honest or dgaf about the class

Posted by: vmom deport deport deport at July 11, 2026 11:38 AM (7gFa4)

21 Unclear on the concept.

FCC Chairman Calls Out Sunny Hostin for Saying “We Need to Flip the Senate” as ABC Argues “The View” Is Just a News Program

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Fat, Dumb, and Happy at July 11, 2026 11:38 AM (ndZc7)

22 Part of the rejection of the possibility of human flight was understanding what the standard engine was capable of, as well as the current understanding of aeronautics. The Smithsonian had tried to develop an aeroplane and failed in spite of all the experts they called upon to work in a committee. Hiram Maxim also had been working on a design, with all his money, in England, I think.

Both attempts did push the edges of technology, but the Wright Brothers went around it, using newer concept engines and advanced materials like Aluminum in roles that had not been tried before. They truly had pulled off a technologic leap-frog movement.

Maxim's steam power design weighed more than a ton, and got airborne for about 8 seconds before crashing. He eventually concluded that steam engines were not suitable for airplanes because of the weight. The Wright Brothers got themselves the newfangled gasoline engine to play with.

Posted by: Kindltot at July 11, 2026 11:38 AM (rbvCR)

23 Modern Educators are just Government Administrators that have figured out a way to short circuit the access to the Publics Wealth.
The Big Govt Admin must wait for the tax to hit the state or national treasury and then join a NGO or Agency to get their hands on the publics' money.
The Educator is right down the street at a building that will never be paid for in its useful lifetime. They pretend to be good neighbors and care for the welfare of YOUR children.
Most care about 1 thing, getting that sweet administrative position and getting out of the classroom.

Posted by: r hennigantx at July 11, 2026 11:39 AM (/+uur)

24 9 "She built her name on one rule: no one should be caged for their beliefs."

In her defense, it was probably a lib judge.

Posted by: AZ deplorable moron at July 11, 2026 11:40 AM (NnhvP)

25 Good morning, so good to be here, waiting for the roofer.

Posted by: Braenyard - some Absent Friends are more equal than others _ at July 11, 2026 11:41 AM (Pee1E)

26 >>> 12 I wonder what fraction of these students hail from a culture with an elaborate & institutionalized millennia-long tradition of cheating on standardized tests https://t.co/fFl54YELIw

==

LOL, I like the last three, Midterm score - 100%, Final - 0%.
Posted by: runner at July 11, 2026 11:31 AM (GD0B3)

Those are the ones who chickened out and dropped the class.

My favorites are the dumbass whose *cheat* score was 70 and the in-person dropped to 53, and the one who got a 55 cheating and actually improved to a whopping 59 in-person.

Posted by: Helena Handbasket at July 11, 2026 11:42 AM (R+iUD)

27 Soldiers will be required to maintain a waist-to-height ratio of less than 0.55 under the Army’s updated body standards.

==

What is shocking is that it was not a standard before. to think that the military used to reject people for being underweight! Like Jimmy Stewart.

Posted by: runner at July 11, 2026 11:43 AM (GD0B3)

28 The Great Utopia if I recall correctly required the children to be separated from the parents so that they could be TAUGHT how to be good Citizens.
There seems to be a big push now in education to try to sever the parent/child relationship to make it easier to indoctrinate the future Citizen into the good life of socialism.

Posted by: r hennigantx at July 11, 2026 11:43 AM (/+uur)

29 Unclear on the concept.

FCC Chairman Calls Out Sunny Hostin for Saying “We Need to Flip the Senate” as ABC Argues “The View” Is Just a News Program


Huh, I'm surprised, even shocked, to find that The View isn't politically neutral. I also believe in the Easter Bunny.

Posted by: Archimedes at July 11, 2026 11:44 AM (Riz8t)

30 the one who got a 55 cheating and actually improved to a whopping 59 in-person.
Posted by: Helena Handbasket

I don't think he cheated, looks like he did the work, maybe just not suited to the class

Posted by: vmom deport deport deport at July 11, 2026 11:44 AM (WL2lA)

31 >>> 28 The Great Utopia if I recall correctly required the children to be separated from the parents so that they could be TAUGHT how to be good Citizens.
There seems to be a big push now in education to try to sever the parent/child relationship to make it easier to indoctrinate the future Citizen into the good life of socialism.
Posted by: r hennigantx at July 11, 2026 11:43 AM (/+uur)

Big time. Commies always do this, in one form or another.

Posted by: Helena Handbasket at July 11, 2026 11:44 AM (R+iUD)

32 >>> 30 the one who got a 55 cheating and actually improved to a whopping 59 in-person.
Posted by: Helena Handbasket

I don't think he cheated, looks like he did the work, maybe just not suited to the class
Posted by: vmom deport deport deport at July 11, 2026 11:44 AM (WL2lA)

Yeah, you're probably right about that guy, at least he was honest!

Posted by: Helena Handbasket at July 11, 2026 11:45 AM (R+iUD)

33 Even if the "belief" means you can kill and maim to advance the quote unquote Cause.

Posted by: r hennigantx at July 11, 2026 11:45 AM (/+uur)

34 IIRC only the he Wright Brothers took off into the wind and therefore got lift, the others tried to launch with the wind and failed.

Posted by: AZ deplorable moron at July 11, 2026 11:46 AM (NnhvP)

35 Those are the ones who chickened out and dropped the class.

My favorites are the dumbass whose *cheat* score was 70 and the in-person dropped to 53, and the one who got a 55 cheating and actually improved to a whopping 59 in-person.
Posted by: Helena Handbasket at July 11, 2026 11:42 AM (R+iUD)

Those 3 are part of the remaining 59. If you read the post is says so at the top "The scores of the remaining are displayed. "

Posted by: runner at July 11, 2026 11:47 AM (GD0B3)

36 Looks like Student #22 improved his performance on the final compared to the midterm. I'd pass him.

Posted by: muldoon at July 11, 2026 11:49 AM (I0N4X)

37 I suspect public school admins are shockingly overpaid

Posted by: vmom deport deport deport at July 11, 2026 11:49 AM (WL2lA)

38 Good morning, so good to be here, waiting for the roofer.

Posted by: Braenyard
---
Have fun. We got a new roof a few months ago. I then called my insurance company and they lowered our homeowners policy significantly.

Posted by: lin-duh at July 11, 2026 11:49 AM (VCgbV)

39 34 IIRC only the he Wright Brothers took off into the wind and therefore got lift, the others tried to launch with the wind and failed.
Posted by: AZ deplorable moron at July 11, 2026 11:46 AM (NnhvP)

Those Magnificent Man and Their Flying Machines is one of my favorite movies.

Posted by: r hennigantx at July 11, 2026 11:50 AM (/+uur)

40 Law & Order.

Rep. Pramila Jayapal
@RepJayapal
Every single person who voted to give billions more to ICE last month should be ashamed.
Not one more cent of our taxpayer dollars should fund this lawless, rogue agency.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Fat, Dumb, and Happy at July 11, 2026 11:52 AM (ndZc7)

41 >>>The Wright Brothers got themselves the newfangled gasoline engine to play with.

Posted by: Kindltot
---

They asked Ford to build them an engine but he said he was busy.
Their bicycle mechanic said, I'll have a go at it and he did.

Posted by: Braenyard - some Absent Friends are more equal than others _ at July 11, 2026 11:53 AM (Pee1E)

42 Seems to me that you should see a pretty normal distribution of grades once a class reaches around 50 students.
4 or 5 As
4 or 5 Fs
remaining 40 sharing Bs Cs and Ds.

Posted by: r hennigantx at July 11, 2026 11:53 AM (/+uur)

43 Looks like Student #22 improved his performance on the final compared to the midterm. I'd pass him.
Posted by: muldoon at July 11, 2026 11:49 AM (I0N4X)

No distractions!

--Student #22 who has 12 cats at home

Posted by: runner at July 11, 2026 11:54 AM (GD0B3)

44 I don't know where the chicken and egg question lands between the Marxism in public schools or at the University level. I would argue you need to cauterize higher education because that's where the teachers and administrators are trained.

Posted by: Bilwis Devourer of Innocent Souls, I'm starvin' over here at July 11, 2026 11:54 AM (w/O5Q)

45 Roofer's on the roof checking it out.

Posted by: Braenyard - some Absent Friends are more equal than others _ at July 11, 2026 11:54 AM (Pee1E)

46 Treasury Targets Key Supreme Leader Financier and Iran’s Shadow Exchange Houses
July 10, 2026
WASHINGTON—Today, following Iran’s resumption of attacks on international shipping in the Strait of Hormuz, the U.S. Department of the Treasury’s Office of Foreign Assets Control (OFAC) took action against Iranian financial facilitator Ali Ansari (Ansari), who oversees a sprawling global network of assets benefitting Iran’s leader—Mojtaba Khamenei—and other regime elites. Ansari has effectively institutionalized large‑scale embezzlement within the Iranian regime, diverting publicly funded wealth into an extensive overseas portfolio of real estate and commercial holdings to enrich himself, regime elites—including notable senior figures within the Supreme Leader’s Office—and the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps (IRGC). OFAC today also targeted key Iranian exchange houses that move billions of dollars annually on behalf of sanctioned Iranian banks, using layers of shell companies to obscure the regime’s illicit financial activity.

https://home.treasury.gov/news/press-releases/sb0558

Posted by: Kindltot at July 11, 2026 11:54 AM (rbvCR)

47 Not one more cent of our taxpayer dollars should fund this lawless, rogue agency.
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Fat, Dumb, and Happy at July 11, 2026 11:52 AM (ndZc7)

Now do the IRS

Posted by: r hennigantx at July 11, 2026 11:54 AM (/+uur)

48 There seems to be a big push now in education to try to sever the parent/child relationship to make it easier to indoctrinate the future Citizen into the good life of socialism.
Posted by: r hennigantx
__________

The family is a unit of government outside the state. That explains everything about the left's hostility to the family.

Posted by: Biff Pocoroba at July 11, 2026 11:56 AM (XvL8K)

49 I saw someone post a meme "Leftist discourse is just pretending to not understand things" and the responses from leftists made me laugh:

1) No YOU pretend to not understand things

2) No YOU rightwingers pretend you do understand things

3) I don't understand this meme like...what is it talking about?

So the traditional mix of NO YOU and...pretending to not understand things.

Posted by: 18-1 at July 11, 2026 11:56 AM (sKqQm)

50 I suspect public school admins are shockingly overpaid
Posted by: vmom deport deport deport

An understatement. And test scores are in the toilet.

Posted by: Mr Aspirin Factory at July 11, 2026 11:56 AM (nHABa)

51 There seems to be a big push now in education to try to sever the parent/child relationship to make it easier to indoctrinate the future Citizen into the good life of socialism.

Atheist women stopped having kids.

So unless the left can convert YOUR kids in a few generations there won't be any leftists.

Posted by: 18-1 at July 11, 2026 11:57 AM (sKqQm)

52
9 "She built her name on one rule: no one should be caged for their beliefs."

Funny that she spent her life proving that the opposite is in fact true.

Posted by: Tom Servo at July 11, 2026 11:57 AM (VbqNm)

53 I would argue you need to cauterize higher education because that's where the teachers and administrators are trained.
Posted by: Bilwis Devourer of Innocent Souls, I'm starvin' over here at July 11, 2026 11:54 AM (w/O5Q)

In 80 or 81 UT started moving Ed into its own department and it became a quote unquote college about 10 years later.
If you think about it a 4th or 5th grader could easily teach a 5 or 6 YO to read. I bet many of us learned from a babysitter or older sibling.

Posted by: r hennigantx at July 11, 2026 11:58 AM (/+uur)

54
An understatement. And test scores are in the toilet.


There is a strong correlation between increases in education spending and decreases in any metric that measures education of students.

Posted by: 18-1 at July 11, 2026 11:58 AM (sKqQm)

55 Rep. Pramila Jayapal
@RepJayapal
Every single person who voted to give billions more to ICE last month should be ashamed.
Not one more cent of our taxpayer dollars should fund this lawless, rogue agency.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks,
---

And you should be sent back to Kathmandu or whatever hell hole you emerged from.

Posted by: Braenyard - some Absent Friends are more equal than others _ at July 11, 2026 11:58 AM (Pee1E)

56 There seems to be a big push now in education to try to sever the parent/child relationship to make it easier to indoctrinate the future Citizen into the good life of socialism.
Posted by: r hennigantx
__________

The family is a unit of government outside the state. That explains everything about the left's hostility to the family.
Posted by: Biff Pocoroba

Religion and family are the two great opponents to government utopia and must be destroyed!

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Fat, Dumb, and Happy at July 11, 2026 11:58 AM (ndZc7)

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