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Sunday Morning Book Thread 6-21-2026 [Sabrina Chase]
Comments
(Jump to bottom of comments)1
Is that a roast?
Posted by: davidt at June 21, 2026 08:58 AM (Q+gd/)
2
Booken morgen Sabrina!
Posted by: vmom deport deport deport at June 21, 2026 09:00 AM (znREB)
3
Tolle Lege
Posted by: Skip at June 21, 2026 09:00 AM (Ia/+0)
4
That's one of the carbonized scrolls.
Posted by: Trimegistus at June 21, 2026 09:01 AM (78a2H)
5
Good morning, happy fathers day and welcome to the summer solstice (Phew! Busy day) to my fellow Book Threadists. I hope everyone had a great week of reading.
Posted by: JTB at June 21, 2026 09:03 AM (yTvNw)
6
The one scroll they have deciphered using this technique is a book of Epicurian philosophy,
----
...extolling the merits of putting carrots in Pompeiian chili?
----
...extolling the merits of putting carrots in Pompeiian chili?
Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at June 21, 2026 09:03 AM (gnNyN)
7
That scroll is in a condition a bookseller might call "slightly foxed". 
Volcanoes and books don't get along.
Volcanoes and books don't get along.Posted by: Sabrina Chase at June 21, 2026 09:04 AM (ee9bx)
8
Is that a roast?
Posted by: davidt at June 21, 2026 08:58 AM (Q+gd/)
---
It's a cook book!
Yay book thread!
Posted by: davidt at June 21, 2026 08:58 AM (Q+gd/)
---
It's a cook book!
Yay book thread!
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at June 21, 2026 09:04 AM (ZOv7s)
9
That's one of the carbonized scrolls.
Posted by: Trimegistus at June 21, 2026 09:01 AM (78a2H)
Or the returned manuscript of a new writer after being read by a literary agent.
Posted by: Trimegistus at June 21, 2026 09:01 AM (78a2H)
Or the returned manuscript of a new writer after being read by a literary agent.
Posted by: OrangeEnt at June 21, 2026 09:05 AM (1Ff7Z)
Posted by: Weak Geek at June 21, 2026 09:05 AM (gQhJN)
11
Two is one and one is done.
Posted by: Reliability experts everywhere at June 21, 2026 09:05 AM (eDbqp)
12
That scroll is in a condition a bookseller might call "slightly foxed". Volcanoes and books don't get along.
Posted by: Sabrina Chase at June 21, 2026 09:04 AM (ee9bx)
----
I read a book this week that flat out told me to burn it before I read it.
Posted by: Sabrina Chase at June 21, 2026 09:04 AM (ee9bx)
----
I read a book this week that flat out told me to burn it before I read it.
Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at June 21, 2026 09:06 AM (gnNyN)
13
The one scroll they have deciphered using this technique is a book of Epicurian philosophy,
----
...extolling the merits of putting carrots in Pompeiian chili?
Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at June 21, 2026 09:03 AM (gnNyN
She said Epicurean, not barbarian.
----
...extolling the merits of putting carrots in Pompeiian chili?
Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at June 21, 2026 09:03 AM (gnNyN
She said Epicurean, not barbarian.
Posted by: Dr. T at June 21, 2026 09:06 AM (jGGMD)
14
https://dailytimewaster.blogspot.com/me this weekend
https://tinyurl.com/yjk49xy5
( maybe a good book thread picture)
As for me, trying to read Carl v. Clauswitz's On War
It really is a serious stone read, and hard to read if not wide awake and concentrate
https://tinyurl.com/yjk49xy5
( maybe a good book thread picture)
As for me, trying to read Carl v. Clauswitz's On War
It really is a serious stone read, and hard to read if not wide awake and concentrate
Posted by: Skip at June 21, 2026 09:06 AM (Ia/+0)
15
Among the lost books of history, I wonder about the "as for the rest of So-so's acts, they are written in the Chronicles of the Kings of Israel" referred to in Kings in the Old Testament
Posted by: vmom deport deport deport at June 21, 2026 09:07 AM (znREB)
16
As the writer asked the agent, "Should I put more fire in my poetry?"
"No!" said the agent. "Do the opposite!"
"No!" said the agent. "Do the opposite!"
Posted by: Weak Geek at June 21, 2026 09:08 AM (gQhJN)
17
Good Sunday morning, horde, and Happy Father's Day to the dads.
Safe travels for all the NoVaMoMe attendees.
Safe travels for all the NoVaMoMe attendees.
Posted by: Dash my lace wigs! at June 21, 2026 09:09 AM (h7ZuX)
18
It's incredible that anything can be gleaned from those charred scrolls!
Posted by: Dash my lace wigs! at June 21, 2026 09:09 AM (h7ZuX)
19
"But there are also many other things which Jesus did, which, if they were written in detail, I expect that even the world itself would not contain the books that would be written."
"But there are also many other things which Jesus did, which, if they were written in detail, I expect that even the world itself would not contain the books that would be written."
Posted by: John 21:25 at June 21, 2026 09:10 AM (eDbqp)
20
I have to look it up, but I believe last week two of St. Augustine's lost homilies were found bound into a book in Poland. The discoverer wasn't looking for them, just doing research and thought: "Wait a minute, what's on the back page?" or something.
I am reading St. Augustine's City of God and he makes tons of references to other works, many of which are lost to us. This is why I have so little patience with people who try to challenge ancient histories. We have but a fraction of the sources they had, and their works would not have been preserved if their contemporaries considered it false rubbish.
The fact that they survived - often in quantity - tells us that the people closest to events valued it.
I am reading St. Augustine's City of God and he makes tons of references to other works, many of which are lost to us. This is why I have so little patience with people who try to challenge ancient histories. We have but a fraction of the sources they had, and their works would not have been preserved if their contemporaries considered it false rubbish.
The fact that they survived - often in quantity - tells us that the people closest to events valued it.
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at June 21, 2026 09:10 AM (ZOv7s)
21
It's incredible that anything can be gleaned from those charred scrolls!
Posted by: Dash my lace wigs! at June 21, 2026 09:09 AM (h7ZuX)
-----
Lasers...what can't they do?
Posted by: Dash my lace wigs! at June 21, 2026 09:09 AM (h7ZuX)
-----
Lasers...what can't they do?
Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at June 21, 2026 09:10 AM (gnNyN)
22
With the red stripes, that scroll looks as if mystic energy is breaking out.
Posted by: Weak Geek at June 21, 2026 09:11 AM (gQhJN)
23
Happy Fathers Day horde dads!
Posted by: vmom deport deport deport at June 21, 2026 09:11 AM (znREB)
24
In other reading news, Mao's Army Goes to Sea finally got interesting, but of course now the author had to dull it up again with pointless repetition.
It could have been a crackling 20-page monograph, but I guess he had to pad it out to make a book. Sigh.
It could have been a crackling 20-page monograph, but I guess he had to pad it out to make a book. Sigh.
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at June 21, 2026 09:12 AM (ZOv7s)
25
With the red stripes, that scroll looks as if mystic energy is breaking out.
Posted by: Weak Geek at June 21, 2026 09:11 AM (gQhJN)
---
Whatever you do, don't read it aloud!
Posted by: Weak Geek at June 21, 2026 09:11 AM (gQhJN)
---
Whatever you do, don't read it aloud!
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at June 21, 2026 09:13 AM (ZOv7s)
26
Donald Hamilton could write in the third person past tense. As evidence I submit his early novel "Night Walker," which came out while Matt Helm was still a citizen.
A Navy lieutenant, recalled to active duty and not happy about it, thumbs a ride to Norfolk with a guy who gripes about his dismissal from government because he's suspected of Red sympathies. Through circumstances not fully disclosed, the officer wakes up in a hospital bed, badly banged up, with his face covered in bandages. The hospital staff calls him by the driver's name -- because, he's told, he was wearing the driver's clothes and carrying the driver's identification. No photo IDs in those days.
The only other person who knows the truth is the driver's estranged wife. She takes the lieutenant out of the hospital to her home on Chesapeake Bay, where she tells him that her husband had tried to kill him in a phony car crash and disappear, but something went wrong and Hubby died instead.
It all sounds straightforward, yet I'm skeptical. We've only been told through other characters what is going on; we have yet to see anything for ourselves. And, after all, this is Donald Hamilton.
A Navy lieutenant, recalled to active duty and not happy about it, thumbs a ride to Norfolk with a guy who gripes about his dismissal from government because he's suspected of Red sympathies. Through circumstances not fully disclosed, the officer wakes up in a hospital bed, badly banged up, with his face covered in bandages. The hospital staff calls him by the driver's name -- because, he's told, he was wearing the driver's clothes and carrying the driver's identification. No photo IDs in those days.
The only other person who knows the truth is the driver's estranged wife. She takes the lieutenant out of the hospital to her home on Chesapeake Bay, where she tells him that her husband had tried to kill him in a phony car crash and disappear, but something went wrong and Hubby died instead.
It all sounds straightforward, yet I'm skeptical. We've only been told through other characters what is going on; we have yet to see anything for ourselves. And, after all, this is Donald Hamilton.
Posted by: Weak Geek at June 21, 2026 09:13 AM (gQhJN)
27
Finally, the Book Thread includes-
the Fossilized Foreleg of a Unicorn to kick things off.
Cn we have the Piltdown Man pay us a visit next week?
Finally, the Book Thread includes-
the Fossilized Foreleg of a Unicorn to kick things off.
Cn we have the Piltdown Man pay us a visit next week?
Posted by: naturalfake at June 21, 2026 09:15 AM (iJfKG)
28
Most of the poetry of Sappho is only known from old greek homos
Posted by: Commissar of plenty and festive little hats at June 21, 2026 09:15 AM (Kt19C)
29
Many thanks to whomever recommended Open Season by CJ Box. Very enjoyable audio book and I appreciate the recommendation to start with it as it is the beginning book of the Joe Pickett series.
I plan to listen to others as well.
I plan to listen to others as well.
Posted by: Quarter Twenty at June 21, 2026 09:15 AM (eDbqp)
30
Fascinating video on the scrolls. Seale says that ironically, had they not been carbonized by the fires, they wouldn't have survived; at least now they have these charred remains.
Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes at June 21, 2026 09:15 AM (kpS4V)
31
I don't know if I've already mentioned, but I've been reading _Hard to be a God_ by the Strugatsky brothers. They were Russian SF writers working under the Soviet government, and at least some reviewers have tried to explain all their work as various kinds of allegory of life under the Communists. I'm not sure that's true.
This one is obviously a huge influence on Iain Banks, about envoys from an advanced society (in this case Earth, and yes, it's explicitly after the triumph of Communism) living secretly in a more primitive society on another planet. They're all humans, because this was the 1960s and the Strugatskys were Europeans. (I don't know why Euro writers were so allergic for so long to realistically alien aliens.)
There's an afterword in my edition about the writing of the book, and in some ways it's more interesting than the novel as it gives a glimpse into the realities of writing under Communism. They had to delete any references to FTL travel because the Nazis had once denounced Einstein, therefore FTL in fiction was a sign of fascism. You can't make this stuff up!
This one is obviously a huge influence on Iain Banks, about envoys from an advanced society (in this case Earth, and yes, it's explicitly after the triumph of Communism) living secretly in a more primitive society on another planet. They're all humans, because this was the 1960s and the Strugatskys were Europeans. (I don't know why Euro writers were so allergic for so long to realistically alien aliens.)
There's an afterword in my edition about the writing of the book, and in some ways it's more interesting than the novel as it gives a glimpse into the realities of writing under Communism. They had to delete any references to FTL travel because the Nazis had once denounced Einstein, therefore FTL in fiction was a sign of fascism. You can't make this stuff up!
Posted by: Trimegistus at June 21, 2026 09:15 AM (78a2H)
32
the Piltdown Doughboy
Posted by: Commissar of plenty and festive little hats at June 21, 2026 09:16 AM (Kt19C)
33
I'm currently reading Seveneves by Neal Stephenson. The world is going to end in two years. Humans have until then to figure out how to launch a life raft that will support the human race for the next 5000 years until Earth may be able to support life again.
One of the questions they do try to address is deciding what knowledge should be preserved for the long term. Not just the scientific technical skills they need, but the culture as well.
One of the questions they do try to address is deciding what knowledge should be preserved for the long term. Not just the scientific technical skills they need, but the culture as well.
Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at June 21, 2026 09:16 AM (gnNyN)
34
In recognition of our upcoming birthday, I've begun to read Rick Atkinson's Revolutionary War trilogy beginning with The British Are Coming. I quite enjoyed his WWII in Europe trilogy but so far I'm enjoying this even more.
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks and His All White Jury! at June 21, 2026 09:17 AM (ndZc7)
35
27
Finally, the Book Thread includes-
the Fossilized Foreleg of a Unicorn to kick things off.
Cn we have the Piltdown Man pay us a visit next week?
Posted by: naturalfake at June 21, 2026 09:15 AM
-----
Sitting right here, boss.
Finally, the Book Thread includes-
the Fossilized Foreleg of a Unicorn to kick things off.
Cn we have the Piltdown Man pay us a visit next week?
Posted by: naturalfake at June 21, 2026 09:15 AM
-----
Sitting right here, boss.
Posted by: Australopithecus at June 21, 2026 09:17 AM (eDbqp)
36
This is why I have so little patience with people who try to challenge ancient histories.
Problem: many reams of bullshit were preserved because they were more entertaining than the real thing and the real thing got lost.
John Malalas, Historia Augusta, Movses Khorenatsi, Ctesias' Persica...
Problem: many reams of bullshit were preserved because they were more entertaining than the real thing and the real thing got lost.
John Malalas, Historia Augusta, Movses Khorenatsi, Ctesias' Persica...
Posted by: gKWVE at June 21, 2026 09:18 AM (gKWVE)
37
One of the questions they do try to address is deciding what knowledge should be preserved for the long term. Not just the scientific technical skills they need, but the culture as well.
Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel
Well, I hope they include the Limerick.
Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel
Well, I hope they include the Limerick.
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks and His All White Jury! at June 21, 2026 09:19 AM (ndZc7)
38
>Problem: many reams of bullshit were preserved because they were more entertaining than the real thing and the real thing got lost.
Posted by: gKWVE at June 21, 2026 09:18 AM
-----
This is about me, isn't it?
Posted by: gKWVE at June 21, 2026 09:18 AM
-----
This is about me, isn't it?
Posted by: Obama's college transcripts at June 21, 2026 09:20 AM (eDbqp)
39
Thanks to Sabrina for the thread. I've been following the story about the scrolls from the Vesuvius toasting as information becomes available. Fascinating and provides a bit of hope that lost materials may be rediscovered.
I agree about multiple back ups of digital materials but still have no confidence in them. Too many ways to go wrong. Lack of power. Lack of software and machines to read them. (How many computer files are still usable after only a few decades?) Deteriorating storage media.
I have more faith in microfiche for long term preservation. So sayeth the curmudgeon.
I agree about multiple back ups of digital materials but still have no confidence in them. Too many ways to go wrong. Lack of power. Lack of software and machines to read them. (How many computer files are still usable after only a few decades?) Deteriorating storage media.
I have more faith in microfiche for long term preservation. So sayeth the curmudgeon.
Posted by: JTB at June 21, 2026 09:21 AM (yTvNw)
40
Morning, bookish folken,
This week I finished S.M. Stirling's Conan novel, Blood of the Serpent. It was written to lead into Howard's own short story, "Red Nails," and explain how Conan came to know and be following Valeria of the Red Brotherhood. The Howard story starts with him following her into a jungle.
Stirling's pastiche is quite readable and displays Conan as not only a tough and expert swordsman, but a smart leader as well. Howard's story is fast-moving and colorful (as is Stirling's), though the tendency to purple prose and said-isms ("We're both penniless vagabonds," [Conan] grinned hardily) is a little jarring. All said, a good read.
This week I finished S.M. Stirling's Conan novel, Blood of the Serpent. It was written to lead into Howard's own short story, "Red Nails," and explain how Conan came to know and be following Valeria of the Red Brotherhood. The Howard story starts with him following her into a jungle.
Stirling's pastiche is quite readable and displays Conan as not only a tough and expert swordsman, but a smart leader as well. Howard's story is fast-moving and colorful (as is Stirling's), though the tendency to purple prose and said-isms ("We're both penniless vagabonds," [Conan] grinned hardily) is a little jarring. All said, a good read.
Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at June 21, 2026 09:22 AM (wzUl9)
41
34 In recognition of our upcoming birthday, I've begun to read Rick Atkinson's Revolutionary War trilogy beginning with The British Are Coming. I quite enjoyed his WWII in Europe trilogy but so far I'm enjoying this even more.
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks and His All White Jury! at June 21, 2026 09:17 AM (ndZc7)
I read that as Rick Astley. Moar coffee.
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks and His All White Jury! at June 21, 2026 09:17 AM (ndZc7)
I read that as Rick Astley. Moar coffee.
Posted by: Eromero at June 21, 2026 09:23 AM (LHPAg)
42
>>> 20 I have to look it up, but I believe last week two of St. Augustine's lost homilies were found bound into a book in Poland. The discoverer wasn't looking for them, just doing research and thought: "Wait a minute, what's on the back page?" or something.
I am reading St. Augustine's City of God and he makes tons of references to other works, many of which are lost to us. This is why I have so little patience with people who try to challenge ancient histories. We have but a fraction of the sources they had, and their works would not have been preserved if their contemporaries considered it false rubbish.
The fact that they survived - often in quantity - tells us that the people closest to events valued it.
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at June 21, 2026 09:10 AM (ZOv7s)
But we totes have a complete picture of history, not only from books but archaeological findings as well.
I am reading St. Augustine's City of God and he makes tons of references to other works, many of which are lost to us. This is why I have so little patience with people who try to challenge ancient histories. We have but a fraction of the sources they had, and their works would not have been preserved if their contemporaries considered it false rubbish.
The fact that they survived - often in quantity - tells us that the people closest to events valued it.
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at June 21, 2026 09:10 AM (ZOv7s)
But we totes have a complete picture of history, not only from books but archaeological findings as well.
Posted by: Helena Handbasket at June 21, 2026 09:23 AM (R+iUD)
43
AWI think you will enjoy that
Posted by: Skip at June 21, 2026 09:24 AM (Ia/+0)
44
I purchased on impulse the four-volume set "The History of Middle Earth" by Christopher Tolkien (a handsome collection) and am beginning at the beginning with "The Return of the Shadow". I have low expectations but missed visiting Middle Earth.
It's so interesting to read the various drafts of a story whose proper finished form I feel in my bones. I knew Tolkien had a history sketched out but was surprised at how much the tale grew in the telling:
"I met a lot of things on the way that astonished me. Tom Bombadil I knew already; but I had never been to Bree. Strider sitting in the corner at the inn was a shock, and I had no more idea who he was than had Frodo. The Mines of Moria had been a mere name; and of Lothlórien no word had reached my mortal ears till I came there. Far away I knew there were the Horse-lords on the confines of an ancient Kingdom of Men, but Fangorn Forest was an unforeseen adventure. I had never heard of the House of Eorl nor of the Stewards of Gondor. Most disquieting of all, Saruman had never been revealed to me, and I was as mystified as Frodo at Gandalf's failure to appear on September 22."
-- J.R.R. Tolkien, in a letter to W.H. Auden
It's so interesting to read the various drafts of a story whose proper finished form I feel in my bones. I knew Tolkien had a history sketched out but was surprised at how much the tale grew in the telling:
"I met a lot of things on the way that astonished me. Tom Bombadil I knew already; but I had never been to Bree. Strider sitting in the corner at the inn was a shock, and I had no more idea who he was than had Frodo. The Mines of Moria had been a mere name; and of Lothlórien no word had reached my mortal ears till I came there. Far away I knew there were the Horse-lords on the confines of an ancient Kingdom of Men, but Fangorn Forest was an unforeseen adventure. I had never heard of the House of Eorl nor of the Stewards of Gondor. Most disquieting of all, Saruman had never been revealed to me, and I was as mystified as Frodo at Gandalf's failure to appear on September 22."
-- J.R.R. Tolkien, in a letter to W.H. Auden
Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes at June 21, 2026 09:24 AM (kpS4V)
45
Sometimes it funny watching modern authors try to deal with 'the role of women in a fantasy world.' I read a story recently that had the following incidents, all in a single chapter. First, we saw a woman as a General (The role was closer to a Captain of the Guard, she was the first person to make contact with trespassing ships) and nobody in the story batted an eye at this. Next, we had a fully adult woman scream in helpless panic because her employer was getting a bit handsy with her. And lastly, the General woke up in a guy's bed, and immediately called him 'husband.' A one night stand (featuring a very drunk guy) justified a shotgun-marriage, and again, no one in the setting saw this as anything out of the ordinary.
So, what am I to take away from this? Are women fierce and independent? Or fragile and in need to constant protection? Without some additional explanation, it's hard to reconcile some of these reactions...
And that story was written by a woman...
So, what am I to take away from this? Are women fierce and independent? Or fragile and in need to constant protection? Without some additional explanation, it's hard to reconcile some of these reactions...
And that story was written by a woman...
Posted by: Castle Guy at June 21, 2026 09:25 AM (3v7ra)
46
I am especially disappointed in Patrick O'Brian, of the Aubrey and Maturin books, and Sue Grafton, of the Kinsey Milhone series. They left me wanting more. God rest their talented and accomplished souls.
Posted by: huerfano at June 21, 2026 09:25 AM (VJX5o)
47
I'm hoping the Herculaneum scrolls include a copy of Claudius's work on the Etruscans. We know so little about them even now, and just one Roman-era work would be a revolution.
Posted by: Trimegistus at June 21, 2026 09:26 AM (78a2H)
48
Getting into American Revolution history, its next year a string of events and battles in my immediate area Imight go to
Posted by: Skip at June 21, 2026 09:26 AM (Ia/+0)
49
I have more faith in microfiche for long term preservation. So sayeth the curmudgeon.
I was at the Chicago Public Library a few months ago, researching old TV Guides (1952-1954), only available on microfilm. Final day of research, I come in, and it won’t let me log in to the film reader.
“The computer’s down. You can’t use the film readers until the computer comes back up; they’re aware of the problem.”
“What about that manual film reader over in the corner?”
“You’re welcome to try it. I have no idea how it works.”
I’m 90% certain I was able to get it to work, but the lower level of magnification and the complete lack of software-based image enhancement wasn’t enough to make the film readable. Fortunately, by the time I got that far, the computers were functional again.
I was at the Chicago Public Library a few months ago, researching old TV Guides (1952-1954), only available on microfilm. Final day of research, I come in, and it won’t let me log in to the film reader.
“The computer’s down. You can’t use the film readers until the computer comes back up; they’re aware of the problem.”
“What about that manual film reader over in the corner?”
“You’re welcome to try it. I have no idea how it works.”
I’m 90% certain I was able to get it to work, but the lower level of magnification and the complete lack of software-based image enhancement wasn’t enough to make the film readable. Fortunately, by the time I got that far, the computers were functional again.
Posted by: Stephen Price Blair at June 21, 2026 09:26 AM (kYmoU)
50
Shifting from fantasy to crime, as I often do, I'm reading a 1978 British mystery by one John R.L. Anderson featuring his detective/security officer, Col. Peter Blair: Death in the Greenhouse. Despite the modern cozy-style title, it's more of a classic detective tale in its tone. Blair is asked to find out why someone has shot a retired Foreign Office civil servant in his English greenhouse -- which requires him to probe into twenty-year-old doings in a former British African territory. I don't know if the story will actually take him to Africa.
So far, this seems more like a mix of the best of Somerset Maugham and John Dickson Carr, though without the latter's impossible crime tropes.
So far, this seems more like a mix of the best of Somerset Maugham and John Dickson Carr, though without the latter's impossible crime tropes.
Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at June 21, 2026 09:26 AM (wzUl9)
51
Great topic!
Posted by: TRex - dead sea dino at June 21, 2026 09:27 AM (IQ6Gq)
52
We have but a fraction of the sources they had, and their works would not have been preserved if their contemporaries considered it false rubbish.
Do I recall correctly that St. Augustine at least thought he had seen the Roman records of Jesus’s crucifixion?
Do I recall correctly that St. Augustine at least thought he had seen the Roman records of Jesus’s crucifixion?
Posted by: Stephen Price Blair at June 21, 2026 09:27 AM (kYmoU)
53
I finished reading Agatha Christie's Death on the Nile this week.
To avoid spoilers, I will only say that the butler didn't do it.
To avoid spoilers, I will only say that the butler didn't do it.
Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at June 21, 2026 09:28 AM (gnNyN)
Posted by: Weak Geek at June 21, 2026 09:28 AM (gQhJN)
55
Morning, Sabrina.
Howdy, Horde.
One backup? True -- not enough. The ebooks, and some movies and music here at Casa Some Guy are on my Chromebook's SSD, and also on a couple of USB hard drives and a couple of USB thumb drives. This is not careful planning on my part. Every time I get it into my head that I really need to finally organize and cull some of those files, I back up the mess so that I don't screw up the set I'm working on and lose everything. Some day I'll consolidate all of it and finally get it trimmed down and organized in one set of files without a lot of unwanted duplication, but before I get into that, I'd better run a backup. Just in case.
Howdy, Horde.
One backup? True -- not enough. The ebooks, and some movies and music here at Casa Some Guy are on my Chromebook's SSD, and also on a couple of USB hard drives and a couple of USB thumb drives. This is not careful planning on my part. Every time I get it into my head that I really need to finally organize and cull some of those files, I back up the mess so that I don't screw up the set I'm working on and lose everything. Some day I'll consolidate all of it and finally get it trimmed down and organized in one set of files without a lot of unwanted duplication, but before I get into that, I'd better run a backup. Just in case.
Posted by: Just Some Guy at June 21, 2026 09:30 AM (q3u5l)
56
It all sounds straightforward, yet I'm skeptical. We've only been told through other characters what is going on; we have yet to see anything for ourselves. And, after all, this is Donald Hamilton.
Posted by: Weak Geek at June 21, 2026
***
I have Night Walker on my shelf and have read it, but recall almost nothing about it. That's not a slam at Hamilton; I'm sure I enjoyed it, but I may have read it years ago and other things have intruded.
Posted by: Weak Geek at June 21, 2026
***
I have Night Walker on my shelf and have read it, but recall almost nothing about it. That's not a slam at Hamilton; I'm sure I enjoyed it, but I may have read it years ago and other things have intruded.
Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at June 21, 2026 09:31 AM (wzUl9)
57
They had to delete any references to FTL travel because the Nazis had once denounced Einstein, therefore FTL in fiction was a sign of fascism. You can't make this stuff up!
Posted by: Trimegistus
One of my favorite stories about artistic censorship under the Soviets concerns Prokofiev's opera War and Peace. Known primarily for his lighter works such as Peter and the Wolf, he decided to write something patriot when the Nazis attacked. But Stalin banned it because in the opera, as in real life, Moscow fell to Napoleon and Stalin wasn't having any of that Moscow falls crap.
Posted by: Trimegistus
One of my favorite stories about artistic censorship under the Soviets concerns Prokofiev's opera War and Peace. Known primarily for his lighter works such as Peter and the Wolf, he decided to write something patriot when the Nazis attacked. But Stalin banned it because in the opera, as in real life, Moscow fell to Napoleon and Stalin wasn't having any of that Moscow falls crap.
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks and His All White Jury! at June 21, 2026 09:32 AM (ndZc7)
58
This is why I have so little patience with people who try to challenge ancient histories.
++++
Problem: many reams of bullshit were preserved because they were more entertaining than the real thing and the real thing got lost.
John Malalas, Historia Augusta, Movses Khorenatsi, Ctesias' Persica...
Posted by: gKWVE
====
In modern times -
- Kung Flu will kill you, and killed millions, not a government agent known as Fauci
- J6 was an insurrection somewhere on the scale between Whiskey Rebellion and Civil War.
Somewhere around here I have a fairly modern book on Ancient Rome. It's author points out these problems in history - we know people lie and they lie for political gain/power, and one of the most extension collections are (or some of) the papers of a guy who was paid to spread writings favorable to his patrons. We know this because that is in his writings.
++++
Problem: many reams of bullshit were preserved because they were more entertaining than the real thing and the real thing got lost.
John Malalas, Historia Augusta, Movses Khorenatsi, Ctesias' Persica...
Posted by: gKWVE
====
In modern times -
- Kung Flu will kill you, and killed millions, not a government agent known as Fauci
- J6 was an insurrection somewhere on the scale between Whiskey Rebellion and Civil War.
Somewhere around here I have a fairly modern book on Ancient Rome. It's author points out these problems in history - we know people lie and they lie for political gain/power, and one of the most extension collections are (or some of) the papers of a guy who was paid to spread writings favorable to his patrons. We know this because that is in his writings.
Posted by: Itinerant Alley Butcher at June 21, 2026 09:32 AM (/lPRQ)
59
I finished reading Agatha Christie's Death on the Nile this week.
To avoid spoilers, I will only say that the butler didn't do it.
Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at June 21, 2026 09:28 AM (gnNyN)
Dame A played fair on that one but if you paid attention it was easy to figure out who done it.
An "easy" one to give her readers a victory?
Do mystery authors do that?
I finished reading Agatha Christie's Death on the Nile this week.
To avoid spoilers, I will only say that the butler didn't do it.
Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at June 21, 2026 09:28 AM (gnNyN)
Dame A played fair on that one but if you paid attention it was easy to figure out who done it.
An "easy" one to give her readers a victory?
Do mystery authors do that?
Posted by: naturalfake at June 21, 2026 09:33 AM (iJfKG)
60
"Perfessor" Squirrel at June 21, 2026 09:28 AM (gnNyN)
I've seen the movie with Peter Ustinov. It's about shots fired.
I've seen the movie with Peter Ustinov. It's about shots fired.
Posted by: dantesed at June 21, 2026 09:33 AM (Oy/m2)
61
I am getting less and less able to tolerate counterfactual bullshit in fantasy stories. Not magic and elves, but preliterate and preindustrial societies which somehow replicate the cultural norms of contemporary Seattle.
You don't _have_ ethnically diverse societies when most people die in the same village where they were born. You might have a family known as the "Blacks" because three generations back a shipwrecked sailor with darkish hair settled nearby, but all his descendants will look pretty much like their neighbors after fifty years.
You don't _have_ women in military professions before firearms. I have a family member, a woman, who competes at a fairly high level in fencing. She can beat other women her age, but not men. Size and strength actually matter. Plus societies which put fertile women on the battle line don't last long.
If you're writing a fantasy, why are you depicting the world as a bunch of Bluesky subscribers wearing LARP costumes?
You don't _have_ ethnically diverse societies when most people die in the same village where they were born. You might have a family known as the "Blacks" because three generations back a shipwrecked sailor with darkish hair settled nearby, but all his descendants will look pretty much like their neighbors after fifty years.
You don't _have_ women in military professions before firearms. I have a family member, a woman, who competes at a fairly high level in fencing. She can beat other women her age, but not men. Size and strength actually matter. Plus societies which put fertile women on the battle line don't last long.
If you're writing a fantasy, why are you depicting the world as a bunch of Bluesky subscribers wearing LARP costumes?
Posted by: Trimegistus at June 21, 2026 09:35 AM (78a2H)
62
The premise for Night Walker sounds similar to a recent-ish mystery movie I read about, probably here, but I can't remember the name of the movie or who was in it. :/
Posted by: Helena Handbasket at June 21, 2026 09:35 AM (R+iUD)
63
I read a comic book adaptation of Rober Louis Stevenson's "Kidnapped," and I have reason to assume that this adaptation is fairly faithful to the original novel. Lots of wild plot swings, with new plot-shaking events arriving with very little warning. And yet, the book still feels less 'random' the RLS's other novel, "Treasure Island." Because in Kidnapped, crazy events happen to our young hero, usually instigated by outside forces. In contrast, Treasure Island too many events are precipitated by our hero doing something fooling for no particular reason. But I can also see why TI is the more famous of the two book; the premise of pirates and buried treasure is straightforward, and universally appealing. Kidnapped, on the other hand, deals a lot with the social fallout of the Scottish Civil War, which makes the setting far less understandable...
Speaking to the 'comic book' part of the adaptation, the art is okay. It doesn't stand out, but neither is it terrible. Its most interesting aspect is that the main hero is a long-faced teenager with a near-constant look of disgust/disdain. Given the events of the book, this is perfectly justified.
Speaking to the 'comic book' part of the adaptation, the art is okay. It doesn't stand out, but neither is it terrible. Its most interesting aspect is that the main hero is a long-faced teenager with a near-constant look of disgust/disdain. Given the events of the book, this is perfectly justified.
Posted by: Castle Guy at June 21, 2026 09:36 AM (3v7ra)
64
If you're writing a fantasy, why are you depicting the world as a bunch of Bluesky subscribers wearing LARP costumes?
Posted by: Trimegistus at June 21, 2026 09:35 AM (78a2H)
----
Because it's all they "know" about the real world...
Posted by: Trimegistus at June 21, 2026 09:35 AM (78a2H)
----
Because it's all they "know" about the real world...
Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at June 21, 2026 09:37 AM (gnNyN)
65
One of my favorite stories about artistic censorship under the Soviets concerns Prokofiev's opera War and Peace. Known primarily for his lighter works such as Peter and the Wolf, he decided to write something patriot when the Nazis attacked. But Stalin banned it because in the opera, as in real life, Moscow fell to Napoleon and Stalin wasn't having any of that Moscow falls crap.
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks and His All White Jury! at June 21, 2026 09:32 AM (ndZc7)
I don't know how Prokofiev would have turned out had he stayed in the West instead of going back to the USSR, but his life after his return was a misery.
One of my favorite stories about artistic censorship under the Soviets concerns Prokofiev's opera War and Peace. Known primarily for his lighter works such as Peter and the Wolf, he decided to write something patriot when the Nazis attacked. But Stalin banned it because in the opera, as in real life, Moscow fell to Napoleon and Stalin wasn't having any of that Moscow falls crap.
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks and His All White Jury! at June 21, 2026 09:32 AM (ndZc7)
I don't know how Prokofiev would have turned out had he stayed in the West instead of going back to the USSR, but his life after his return was a misery.
Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at June 21, 2026 09:37 AM (O0L8i)
66
Good morning everyone, happy Father's Day, and thank you, Sabrina!
Speaking of authors who refuse to write the next sequel (death being no excuse), Eris, did you know Alan Bradley died in May? Leaving his last Flavia de Luce book with a wide-open ending? God rest his soul.
But as it turns out, he did finish the next Flavia book and it is scheduled for publication in November of this year.
Speaking of authors who refuse to write the next sequel (death being no excuse), Eris, did you know Alan Bradley died in May? Leaving his last Flavia de Luce book with a wide-open ending? God rest his soul.
But as it turns out, he did finish the next Flavia book and it is scheduled for publication in November of this year.
Posted by: bluebell at June 21, 2026 09:38 AM (afFes)
67
44 ... "I purchased on impulse the four-volume set "The History of Middle Earth" by Christopher Tolkien (a handsome collection) and am beginning at the beginning with "The Return of the Shadow". I have low expectations but missed visiting Middle Earth."
AHE,
I have that set in hardcover, as any proper devotee of Tolkien must. (I gave the paperback version to my niece and her husband.) Not something I would read cover to cover but interesting for fanatics and obsessives.
I've seen that letter from Tolkien to Auden. Knowing how much of the LOTR story was developed on the fly was a fascinating, and surprising, insight. That's one of the reasons I enjoy collections of letters from authors I enjoy; the glimpses into the development of their writing.
AHE,
I have that set in hardcover, as any proper devotee of Tolkien must. (I gave the paperback version to my niece and her husband.) Not something I would read cover to cover but interesting for fanatics and obsessives.
I've seen that letter from Tolkien to Auden. Knowing how much of the LOTR story was developed on the fly was a fascinating, and surprising, insight. That's one of the reasons I enjoy collections of letters from authors I enjoy; the glimpses into the development of their writing.
Posted by: JTB at June 21, 2026 09:38 AM (yTvNw)
68
I finished reading Agatha Christie's Death on the Nile this week.
To avoid spoilers, I will only say that the butler didn't do it.
Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at June 21, 2026
***
During my big detective phase in my teens, I read a lot of her mysteries and was not terribly impressed with her use of clues and reasoning. Reading some of those same books now, I see that she had an excellent grasp of human nature, and that human nature often was essential to the crimes and their solutions . . . much like the later Ellery Queen novels.
Her "Mary Westmacott" non-genre novels -- I've read three -- are superb stuff, with, again, that dramatic knowledge of human nature and motivations. They are like a mix of Somerset Maugham and A.J. Cronin's works, written in Agatha's own plainer style.
To avoid spoilers, I will only say that the butler didn't do it.
Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at June 21, 2026
***
During my big detective phase in my teens, I read a lot of her mysteries and was not terribly impressed with her use of clues and reasoning. Reading some of those same books now, I see that she had an excellent grasp of human nature, and that human nature often was essential to the crimes and their solutions . . . much like the later Ellery Queen novels.
Her "Mary Westmacott" non-genre novels -- I've read three -- are superb stuff, with, again, that dramatic knowledge of human nature and motivations. They are like a mix of Somerset Maugham and A.J. Cronin's works, written in Agatha's own plainer style.
Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at June 21, 2026 09:38 AM (wzUl9)
69
>>> 61
==
If you're writing a fantasy, why are you depicting the world as a bunch of Bluesky subscribers wearing LARP costumes?
Posted by: Trimegistus at June 21, 2026 09:35 AM (78a2H)
Because those books are written by and for Bluesky subscribers wearing LARP costumes.
==
If you're writing a fantasy, why are you depicting the world as a bunch of Bluesky subscribers wearing LARP costumes?
Posted by: Trimegistus at June 21, 2026 09:35 AM (78a2H)
Because those books are written by and for Bluesky subscribers wearing LARP costumes.
Posted by: Helena Handbasket at June 21, 2026 09:39 AM (R+iUD)
70
. . . That's one of the reasons I enjoy collections of letters from authors I enjoy; the glimpses into the development of their writing.
Posted by: JTB at June 21, 2026
***
And their biographies or autobiographies. We see the kinds of things that inspired their choice of genre, or that inspired individual elements and characters in their work.
Posted by: JTB at June 21, 2026
***
And their biographies or autobiographies. We see the kinds of things that inspired their choice of genre, or that inspired individual elements and characters in their work.
Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at June 21, 2026 09:40 AM (wzUl9)
71
Happy Father’s Day to all you well read dads!
Posted by: Piper at June 21, 2026 09:42 AM (Wmg4n)
72
Bluebell, I did not know that! Sad, but we have one more novel at least. Flavia was approaching young womanhood and I'm curious to see her as an adult.
Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes at June 21, 2026 09:43 AM (kpS4V)
73
Talking of the Soviet Union reminds me of a little theory I've been tinkering with in my basement: most of what we call "revolutions" were really just "coups." What I mean by that is that they _didn't_ really change the society, just who was running it. The Russian Revolution kept the Russian colonial empire, the Tsar's secret police and travel restrictions, the top-down economic dirigisme, large landed estates, etc. It just replaced the nobility and the Tsar with the Party and the Central Committee. The French Revolution preserved most of Louis XIV's bureaucratic centralized state, just with a revolving door of characters at the top — hence the French fatalism about never being able to actually solve problems. Even cutting off heads didn't work.
Am I on to something here?
Am I on to something here?
Posted by: Trimegistus at June 21, 2026 09:43 AM (78a2H)
74
I have more faith in microfiche for long term preservation. So sayeth the curmudgeon.
This curmudgeon's problem isn't with microfiche per se, but with libraries putting their holdings on microfiche and then destroying the originals. This is one reason why complete runs of some of the great newspapers like the New York Herald and Los Angeles Examiner no longer exist.
This curmudgeon's problem isn't with microfiche per se, but with libraries putting their holdings on microfiche and then destroying the originals. This is one reason why complete runs of some of the great newspapers like the New York Herald and Los Angeles Examiner no longer exist.
Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing (aka Eloquent Depression) at June 21, 2026 09:44 AM (qRla/)
75
In modern times -
- Kung Flu will kill you, and killed millions, not a government agent known as Fauci
- J6 was an insurrection somewhere on the scale between Whiskey Rebellion and Civil War.
Itinerate Alley Butcher, I pray to GOD our great grand-children don't hear those fables. As an almost 78 year old adult who knows authentic history, I almost weep at the left continuing to re-write it. General Steven D. Lee warned us.
- Kung Flu will kill you, and killed millions, not a government agent known as Fauci
- J6 was an insurrection somewhere on the scale between Whiskey Rebellion and Civil War.
Itinerate Alley Butcher, I pray to GOD our great grand-children don't hear those fables. As an almost 78 year old adult who knows authentic history, I almost weep at the left continuing to re-write it. General Steven D. Lee warned us.
Posted by: Eromero at June 21, 2026 09:44 AM (LHPAg)
76
Problem: many reams of bullshit were preserved because they were more entertaining than the real thing and the real thing got lost.
Not just ancient history. Ty Cobb was given the reputation of a psychopathic racist because of the lies of Al Stump. Cobb wasn't a nice guy and he was raised in late 1800's Georgia, but most of the stories about him were later found to be false.
And Bill Veeck blackened Kenesaw Mountain Landis by claiming Landis prevented him from buying the Phillies in 1943 and using black ballplayers on the roster. There's no contemporaneous evidence for those two events.
Problem: many reams of bullshit were preserved because they were more entertaining than the real thing and the real thing got lost.
Not just ancient history. Ty Cobb was given the reputation of a psychopathic racist because of the lies of Al Stump. Cobb wasn't a nice guy and he was raised in late 1800's Georgia, but most of the stories about him were later found to be false.
And Bill Veeck blackened Kenesaw Mountain Landis by claiming Landis prevented him from buying the Phillies in 1943 and using black ballplayers on the roster. There's no contemporaneous evidence for those two events.
Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at June 21, 2026 09:45 AM (O0L8i)
77
>>> 73 Talking of the Soviet Union reminds me of a little theory I've been tinkering with in my basement: most of what we call "revolutions" were really just "coups." What I mean by that is that they _didn't_ really change the society, just who was running it. The Russian Revolution kept the Russian colonial empire, the Tsar's secret police and travel restrictions, the top-down economic dirigisme, large landed estates, etc. It just replaced the nobility and the Tsar with the Party and the Central Committee. The French Revolution preserved most of Louis XIV's bureaucratic centralized state, just with a revolving door of characters at the top — hence the French fatalism about never being able to actually solve problems. Even cutting off heads didn't work.
Am I on to something here?
Posted by: Trimegistus at June 21, 2026 09:43 AM (78a2H)
NO.
Am I on to something here?
Posted by: Trimegistus at June 21, 2026 09:43 AM (78a2H)
NO.
Posted by: the current derp state at June 21, 2026 09:46 AM (R+iUD)
78
If you're writing a fantasy, why are you depicting the world as a bunch of Bluesky subscribers wearing LARP costumes?
Posted by: Trimegistus at June 21, 2026 09:35 AM (78a2H)
---
Because that is the core audience.
I have three daughters, two of which are into D&D. They both bristle at the idea of women NOT being able to play whatever they want. It is, after all, a fantasy.
However, they also accept men are stronger than women, and so when they want to play a brute crusher, they play a dude rather than a girlboss.
But the opening up of the fantasy genre to women means it gets female fantasies as well, and we all know those are very much different from how men think.
Posted by: Trimegistus at June 21, 2026 09:35 AM (78a2H)
---
Because that is the core audience.
I have three daughters, two of which are into D&D. They both bristle at the idea of women NOT being able to play whatever they want. It is, after all, a fantasy.
However, they also accept men are stronger than women, and so when they want to play a brute crusher, they play a dude rather than a girlboss.
But the opening up of the fantasy genre to women means it gets female fantasies as well, and we all know those are very much different from how men think.
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at June 21, 2026 09:46 AM (ZOv7s)
79
Eris, I'm curious to see what he did with that big revelation about her father in that last book. I did not see that coming.
Posted by: bluebell at June 21, 2026 09:46 AM (afFes)
80
It could have been a crackling 20-page monograph, but I guess he had to pad it out to make a book. Sigh.
I’m currently reading a good spy novel (The Charm School) but it is…overlong. What is it with all these authors who think they’re Herman Melville? Just because you researched how whales get processed, doesn’t mean it goes in the book.
I’m currently reading a good spy novel (The Charm School) but it is…overlong. What is it with all these authors who think they’re Herman Melville? Just because you researched how whales get processed, doesn’t mean it goes in the book.
Posted by: The best thief in Lankhmar at June 21, 2026 09:47 AM (64rer)
81
Sorry to be a minority of one, but I detest fantasy fiction.
Sorry to be a minority of one, but I detest fantasy fiction.
Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at June 21, 2026 09:48 AM (O0L8i)
82
… and then destroying the originals.
Yup. When I returned to the Chicago Public Library a few months ago, it was to verify some poorly readable text against the originals. The scans look like they must have been made in the early nineties!
No can do. We don’t have the originals any more. I was able to tweak the computer enough to be reasonably certain of all of the iffy texts but one, but there are other things I fortunately didn’t need that will probably never be reasonably decipherable.
I see this on newspapers.com a lot, too. Though I hope they aren’t destroying their 1776-1826 papers, I am also not placing any bets.
Yup. When I returned to the Chicago Public Library a few months ago, it was to verify some poorly readable text against the originals. The scans look like they must have been made in the early nineties!
No can do. We don’t have the originals any more. I was able to tweak the computer enough to be reasonably certain of all of the iffy texts but one, but there are other things I fortunately didn’t need that will probably never be reasonably decipherable.
I see this on newspapers.com a lot, too. Though I hope they aren’t destroying their 1776-1826 papers, I am also not placing any bets.
Posted by: Stephen Price Blair at June 21, 2026 09:49 AM (kYmoU)
83
Problem: many reams of bullshit were preserved because they were more entertaining than the real thing and the real thing got lost.
John Malalas, Historia Augusta, Movses Khorenatsi, Ctesias' Persica...
Posted by: gKWVE at June 21, 2026 09:18 AM (gKWVE)
---
Or they were as discredited as we believe.
In the (many footnotes) to City of God, the translator points to an "error" which I ran to ground and found that it wasn't an error. Augustine was correct.
We can look at Herodotus and say he was full of crap, but he was writing what everyone said, and that's very useful to know.
Also: the modern idea of "just the facts" has its own weaknesses. Pre-modern audiences has a much stronger grasp of symbolism than we do.
John Malalas, Historia Augusta, Movses Khorenatsi, Ctesias' Persica...
Posted by: gKWVE at June 21, 2026 09:18 AM (gKWVE)
---
Or they were as discredited as we believe.
In the (many footnotes) to City of God, the translator points to an "error" which I ran to ground and found that it wasn't an error. Augustine was correct.
We can look at Herodotus and say he was full of crap, but he was writing what everyone said, and that's very useful to know.
Also: the modern idea of "just the facts" has its own weaknesses. Pre-modern audiences has a much stronger grasp of symbolism than we do.
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at June 21, 2026 09:49 AM (ZOv7s)
84
Good morning Sabrina, Horde
Posted by: callsign claymore at June 21, 2026 09:50 AM (/6r4m)
85
It could have been a crackling 20-page monograph, but I guess he had to pad it out to make a book. Sigh.
There was a columnist for a dog-show publication that would never say in less than a paragraph anything for which a sentence would ordinarily suffice.
It could have been a crackling 20-page monograph, but I guess he had to pad it out to make a book. Sigh.
There was a columnist for a dog-show publication that would never say in less than a paragraph anything for which a sentence would ordinarily suffice.
Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at June 21, 2026 09:51 AM (O0L8i)
86
That scroll is in a condition a bookseller might call "slightly foxed".
Now that's funny. I've learned that "near fine" means "still has most of the pages" and "very good" means "still has at least one cover."
Now that's funny. I've learned that "near fine" means "still has most of the pages" and "very good" means "still has at least one cover."
Posted by: Oddbob at June 21, 2026 09:51 AM (vTZFs)
87
Sorry to be a minority of one, but I detest fantasy fiction.
Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at June 21, 2026 09:48 AM (O0L8i)
---
I have come to despise it. I like Tolkien because he both defined and then transcended the genre. He reads completely differently to me know than he did back then.
I like R.E. Howard because he's just so over the top. He's not fantasy so much as just rolling with it. Minimalist world-building, character development is an afterthought.
Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at June 21, 2026 09:48 AM (O0L8i)
---
I have come to despise it. I like Tolkien because he both defined and then transcended the genre. He reads completely differently to me know than he did back then.
I like R.E. Howard because he's just so over the top. He's not fantasy so much as just rolling with it. Minimalist world-building, character development is an afterthought.
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at June 21, 2026 09:51 AM (ZOv7s)
88
I’m currently reading a good spy novel (The Charm School) but it is…overlong. What is it with all these authors who think they’re Herman Melville? Just because you researched how whales get processed, doesn’t mean it goes in the book.
Posted by: The best thief in Lankhmar at June 21, 2026 09:47 AM (64rer)
----
Yeah, I'm running into that issue with Seveneves...
It might as well be called "Technobabble: The Book!"
Stephen Baxter and Alistair Reynolds did a much better job of telling their version of this story in half the pages.
Posted by: The best thief in Lankhmar at June 21, 2026 09:47 AM (64rer)
----
Yeah, I'm running into that issue with Seveneves...
It might as well be called "Technobabble: The Book!"
Stephen Baxter and Alistair Reynolds did a much better job of telling their version of this story in half the pages.
Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at June 21, 2026 09:51 AM (gnNyN)
89
'I have more faith in microfiche for long term preservation. So sayeth the curmudgeon'
Me too. 'Somewhere', I have a microfiche of my Navy records, and you just reminded me 'hey why have you been going round and round with the VA almost 5 years when you have a microfiche?'. But alas how would I read it?
Me too. 'Somewhere', I have a microfiche of my Navy records, and you just reminded me 'hey why have you been going round and round with the VA almost 5 years when you have a microfiche?'. But alas how would I read it?
Posted by: Eromero at June 21, 2026 09:52 AM (LHPAg)
90
Morning, 'rons and 'ronettes and thanks for the new thread, Sabrina.*
Tried to cure my sadness by book shopping this weekend. Picked up a few things here and there, but it didn't help.
One is Jack Beatty's The Lost History of 1914: Reconsidering the Year the Great War Began. He discusses five paths that would have led away from the War - a military coup in Germany, imminent civil war in Britain and so on - to support his thesis that "the assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand [wasn't] the catalyst of a war that would have broken out in any event over some other crisis, but rather as its all-but-unique precipitant."
*I've always loved that name, probably because I had a crush on Kate Jackson.
Tried to cure my sadness by book shopping this weekend. Picked up a few things here and there, but it didn't help.
One is Jack Beatty's The Lost History of 1914: Reconsidering the Year the Great War Began. He discusses five paths that would have led away from the War - a military coup in Germany, imminent civil war in Britain and so on - to support his thesis that "the assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand [wasn't] the catalyst of a war that would have broken out in any event over some other crisis, but rather as its all-but-unique precipitant."
*I've always loved that name, probably because I had a crush on Kate Jackson.
Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing (aka Eloquent Depression) at June 21, 2026 09:52 AM (qRla/)
91
Sorry to be a minority of one, but I detest fantasy fiction.
Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at June 21, 2026
***
A lot of the modern stuff bores me, and I write it. It seems as though every huge fantasy novel on the Barnes & Noble shelves begins with some young woman looking out of a tower, remembering sadly the good old days when King Arglebargle IV ruled the land.
Give me Fred Saberhagen and his hardboiled Empire of the East. Or Larry Niven's imaginative Magic Goes Away stories in which mana, the power behind magic, is fading from the world, and creatures like mermen and unicorns breed oddly (giving us dolphins and ponies in the present world) where the mana is low.
Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at June 21, 2026
***
A lot of the modern stuff bores me, and I write it. It seems as though every huge fantasy novel on the Barnes & Noble shelves begins with some young woman looking out of a tower, remembering sadly the good old days when King Arglebargle IV ruled the land.
Give me Fred Saberhagen and his hardboiled Empire of the East. Or Larry Niven's imaginative Magic Goes Away stories in which mana, the power behind magic, is fading from the world, and creatures like mermen and unicorns breed oddly (giving us dolphins and ponies in the present world) where the mana is low.
Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at June 21, 2026 09:53 AM (wzUl9)
92
Or they were as discredited as we believe.
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at June 21, 2026 09:49 AM (ZOv7s)
---
This should read "weren't as discredited."
Note well that most "Bible scholars" detest their subject matter and work tirelessly to prove it false.
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at June 21, 2026 09:49 AM (ZOv7s)
---
This should read "weren't as discredited."
Note well that most "Bible scholars" detest their subject matter and work tirelessly to prove it false.
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at June 21, 2026 09:53 AM (ZOv7s)
93
Sorry to be a minority of one, but I detest fantasy fiction.
Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at June 21, 2026 09:48 AM (O0L8i
I hate it too, unless it is Arthurian fiction, and even then it's hit or miss.
Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at June 21, 2026 09:48 AM (O0L8i
I hate it too, unless it is Arthurian fiction, and even then it's hit or miss.
Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing (aka Eloquent Depression) at June 21, 2026 09:54 AM (qRla/)
94
Microfiche is great (I used to have fun reading the archives from 50 years prior to learn what people then thought was the One Big Thing ... that never made it to the history books). However! If it is on plastic the lifetime is finite. Glass microfiche exists but more rare and more expensive. The real way to preserve texts is lots and lots of copies, all over the place and in multiple repositories. Nothing is permanent. You need copies, and to keep making copies. Kind of like life, really ...
Posted by: Sabrina Chase at June 21, 2026 09:56 AM (PHjsi)
95
I made some progress in the latest translation of Camp of the Saints. It's been years since I read another version of it, but I think I've identified where Raspail edited out some unnecessary passages. It remains as relevant as ever.
Posted by: PabloD at June 21, 2026 09:56 AM (tTZHu)
96
No can do. We don’t have the originals any more. I was able to tweak the computer enough to be reasonably certain of all of the iffy texts but one, but there are other things I fortunately didn’t need that will probably never be reasonably decipherable.
I see this on newspapers.com a lot, too. Though I hope they aren’t destroying their 1776-1826 papers, I am also not placing any bets.
Posted by: Stephen Price Blair at June 21, 2026 09:49 AM (kYmoU)
In James Caan’s Rollerball, a quiet but key moment is when he goes to the library to look up old records, and learns that nothing is there anymore, they just have links to the central database in Zurich.
So he goes to Zurich, and finds that the Central Database has forgotten everything and is useless.
The ruling class has erased the past.
I see this on newspapers.com a lot, too. Though I hope they aren’t destroying their 1776-1826 papers, I am also not placing any bets.
Posted by: Stephen Price Blair at June 21, 2026 09:49 AM (kYmoU)
In James Caan’s Rollerball, a quiet but key moment is when he goes to the library to look up old records, and learns that nothing is there anymore, they just have links to the central database in Zurich.
So he goes to Zurich, and finds that the Central Database has forgotten everything and is useless.
The ruling class has erased the past.
Posted by: Tom Servo at June 21, 2026 09:57 AM (nuNhM)
97
If you're writing a fantasy, why are you depicting the world as a bunch of Bluesky subscribers wearing LARP costumes?
Posted by: Trimegistus at June 21, 2026 09:35 AM (78a2H)
Because the author him/herself is a Bluesky subscriber wearing a LARP costume. And because the publisher is likely also a Bluesky subscriber.
Regardless, I full-heartedly share your disdain for too much modern attitudes in fantasy stories.
Posted by: Trimegistus at June 21, 2026 09:35 AM (78a2H)
Because the author him/herself is a Bluesky subscriber wearing a LARP costume. And because the publisher is likely also a Bluesky subscriber.
Regardless, I full-heartedly share your disdain for too much modern attitudes in fantasy stories.
Posted by: Castle Guy at June 21, 2026 09:58 AM (3v7ra)
98
Thomas Harris has a character -- one of Hannibal Lecter's victims who proves important in the hunt for Buffalo Bill -- named "Raspail." I wonder if Harris knew of, or read, Camp of the Saints?
Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at June 21, 2026 09:58 AM (wzUl9)
99
In related news, the reorganization of Chateau Lloyd's library system is grinding forward. The biggest complication is variable book size.
Tolkien, for example, is really difficult to keep in a single book case. There are oversized folios, illustrated guides, and then trade paperbacks. I'm doing a vertical system, so that the right side of the case is all Tolkien, but even then, the trade paperbacks are on the bedside bookcase - which is convenient for obvious reasons. I'm not reading a folio as a bedtime book.
There have been more than a few "wtf?" moments and I handle a book I've never seen before. Also a small stack of books to be sold or donated.
Tolkien, for example, is really difficult to keep in a single book case. There are oversized folios, illustrated guides, and then trade paperbacks. I'm doing a vertical system, so that the right side of the case is all Tolkien, but even then, the trade paperbacks are on the bedside bookcase - which is convenient for obvious reasons. I'm not reading a folio as a bedtime book.
There have been more than a few "wtf?" moments and I handle a book I've never seen before. Also a small stack of books to be sold or donated.
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at June 21, 2026 09:58 AM (ZOv7s)
100
“ Yet you, Lord, are our Father. We are the clay, you are the potter; we are all the work of your hand.”
Isaiah 64:8
Isaiah 64:8
Posted by: Marcus T at June 21, 2026 09:59 AM (PM/iv)
101
Am I on to something here?
Posted by: Trimegistus at June 21, 2026 09:43 AM
You and Roger Daltrey, Meet the new boss, same as the old boss
Really my take on the Russian Revolution is like all Leftists, flowery thinking everything will be different when we are in charge, but once that power is achieved the greed of it takes over and any old plans of equally are long forgotten.
Every Revolution has been this way.
Posted by: Trimegistus at June 21, 2026 09:43 AM
You and Roger Daltrey, Meet the new boss, same as the old boss
Really my take on the Russian Revolution is like all Leftists, flowery thinking everything will be different when we are in charge, but once that power is achieved the greed of it takes over and any old plans of equally are long forgotten.
Every Revolution has been this way.
Posted by: Skip at June 21, 2026 09:59 AM (Ia/+0)
102
The other is My Love Affair with the State of Maine, a 1955 memoir by an NYC ad executive named Gertrude Mackenzie who chucks it all to move to Goose Rocks, Maine (a part of Kennebunkport) to run a country store with her friend Dorothy. I have no idea how this one is going to turn out, but I hope it's at least as good as Chicken Every Sunday by Rosemary Taylor.
Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing (aka Eloquent Depression) at June 21, 2026 09:59 AM (qRla/)
103
If you're writing a fantasy, why are you depicting the world as a bunch of Bluesky subscribers wearing LARP costumes?
Posted by: Trimegistus at June 21, 2026 09:35 AM (78a2H)
Because those books are written by and for Bluesky subscribers wearing LARP costumes.
Posted by: Helena Handbasket at June 21, 2026 09:39 AM (R+iUD)
I also think there's a bit of...oh, let's call it, Brain Block working here.
Their imaginations can only wander down certain pre-approved paths. (ie, Travels in Woketardia).
It's the same reason why most Soviet fiction is so lousy and forgettable.
They strap theChastity Political Belt around their brains so certain things can't occur or even be imagined.
Sad.
Posted by: Trimegistus at June 21, 2026 09:35 AM (78a2H)
Because those books are written by and for Bluesky subscribers wearing LARP costumes.
Posted by: Helena Handbasket at June 21, 2026 09:39 AM (R+iUD)
I also think there's a bit of...oh, let's call it, Brain Block working here.
Their imaginations can only wander down certain pre-approved paths. (ie, Travels in Woketardia).
It's the same reason why most Soviet fiction is so lousy and forgettable.
They strap the
Sad.
Posted by: naturalfake at June 21, 2026 10:00 AM (iJfKG)
104
I haven't been able to read in bed for many years. When I go to bed -- nowadays, anyway! -- it's to sleep. I don't even think about watching TV there.
Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at June 21, 2026 10:00 AM (wzUl9)
105
Sorry to be a minority of one, but I detest fantasy fiction.
I can't dispute Clarke's line about sufficiently advanced technology but for me the (admittedly fuzzy) line is somewhere this side of dragons. I make an exception for Tolkien because... well... because I do, I guess.
I can't dispute Clarke's line about sufficiently advanced technology but for me the (admittedly fuzzy) line is somewhere this side of dragons. I make an exception for Tolkien because... well... because I do, I guess.
Posted by: Oddbob at June 21, 2026 10:00 AM (vTZFs)
106
Never got heavily into fantasy. Some of Leiber, Vance, Tolkien, when I was in high school. Think I read Brooks's Sword of Shannara (sp?) when it came out, mainly out of curiosity, but almost nothing along that line after.
For me these days, it's a section in the bookshop that might as well be labelled "This You May Safely Ignore."
For me these days, it's a section in the bookshop that might as well be labelled "This You May Safely Ignore."
Posted by: Just Some Guy at June 21, 2026 10:01 AM (q3u5l)
107
one is none, two is one
Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, Buy ammo at June 21, 2026 10:01 AM (xcxpd)
108
IIRC one of the mysteries in Umberto Eco's The Name of the Rose was the existence of Aristotle's work on comedy in the secret library.
Posted by: I am the Shadout Mapes, the Housekeeper at June 21, 2026 10:02 AM (PiwSw)
109
The real way to preserve texts is lots and lots of copies, all over the place and in multiple repositories. Nothing is permanent. You need copies, and to keep making copies. Kind of like life, really ...
Posted by: Sabrina Chase at June 21, 2026 09:56 AM (PHjsi)
---
Newspapers and magazines were never designed to be archival records. They were the television/radio/internet of their time, durable only because there was no cheaper way to make them.
When I was in college, the universities were switching over from bound copies of periodicals to microfiche, which was much more convenient, but now digital is the thing, and it's shocking how empty the library building is these days. It used to densely packed, with vast card catalogs, but all that's gone.
Worth remembering that many of the books that survived from antiquity were from private collections that were later moved to abbeys or castles.
Posted by: Sabrina Chase at June 21, 2026 09:56 AM (PHjsi)
---
Newspapers and magazines were never designed to be archival records. They were the television/radio/internet of their time, durable only because there was no cheaper way to make them.
When I was in college, the universities were switching over from bound copies of periodicals to microfiche, which was much more convenient, but now digital is the thing, and it's shocking how empty the library building is these days. It used to densely packed, with vast card catalogs, but all that's gone.
Worth remembering that many of the books that survived from antiquity were from private collections that were later moved to abbeys or castles.
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at June 21, 2026 10:03 AM (ZOv7s)
110
I can't dispute Clarke's line about sufficiently advanced technology but for me the (admittedly fuzzy) line is somewhere this side of dragons. I make an exception for Tolkien because... well... because I do, I guess.
Posted by: Oddbob at June 21, 2026
***
Magic systems in so many stories seem to be, well, unsystematic. Magic, like tech, should have its own rules, and if there are exceptions they should be explained. It should also not be easy to work a spell, or then everybody could do it and why would you need professionals?
The two basic classical rules of magic, the Law of Similarity and the Law of Contagion, are a good start. But a clever writer will go beyond those.
Posted by: Oddbob at June 21, 2026
***
Magic systems in so many stories seem to be, well, unsystematic. Magic, like tech, should have its own rules, and if there are exceptions they should be explained. It should also not be easy to work a spell, or then everybody could do it and why would you need professionals?
The two basic classical rules of magic, the Law of Similarity and the Law of Contagion, are a good start. But a clever writer will go beyond those.
Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at June 21, 2026 10:03 AM (wzUl9)
111
103 If you're writing a fantasy, why are you depicting the world as a bunch of Bluesky subscribers wearing LARP costumes?
Posted by: Trimegistus at June 21, 2026 09:35 AM (78a2H)
Because those books are written by and for Bluesky subscribers wearing LARP costumes.
Posted by: Helena Handbasket at June 21, 2026 09:39 AM (R+iUD)
This is the reason I spend so much time here! No get ready for church. Later.
I also think there's a bit of...oh, let's call it, Brain Block working here.
Their imaginations can only wander down certain pre-approved paths. (ie, Travels in Woketardia).
It's the same reason why most Soviet fiction is so lousy and forgettable.
They strap the Chastity Political Belt around their brains so certain things can't occur or even be imagined.
Sad.
Posted by: naturalfake at June 21, 2026 10:00 AM (iJfKG)
Posted by: Trimegistus at June 21, 2026 09:35 AM (78a2H)
Because those books are written by and for Bluesky subscribers wearing LARP costumes.
Posted by: Helena Handbasket at June 21, 2026 09:39 AM (R+iUD)
This is the reason I spend so much time here! No get ready for church. Later.
I also think there's a bit of...oh, let's call it, Brain Block working here.
Their imaginations can only wander down certain pre-approved paths. (ie, Travels in Woketardia).
It's the same reason why most Soviet fiction is so lousy and forgettable.
They strap the Chastity Political Belt around their brains so certain things can't occur or even be imagined.
Sad.
Posted by: naturalfake at June 21, 2026 10:00 AM (iJfKG)
Posted by: Eromero at June 21, 2026 10:04 AM (LHPAg)
112
Thinking of our Revolution, it really was more a separation from England than replacing England government. The French, Russian, Chinese, Communist takeovers, Spanish and others I can't think of replaced the government not just separation from the government in charge.
Posted by: Skip at June 21, 2026 10:04 AM (Ia/+0)
113
Note well that most "Bible scholars" detest their subject matter and work tirelessly to prove it false.
A point emphasized in Luke Timothy Johnson's The Real Jesus.
A point emphasized in Luke Timothy Johnson's The Real Jesus.
Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing (aka Eloquent Depression) at June 21, 2026 10:04 AM (qRla/)
114
At 111-
That right there.
That right there.
Posted by: Eromero at June 21, 2026 10:05 AM (LHPAg)
115
In Silence of the Lambs, (Benjamin) Raspail's head ends up in a jar. Perhaps Harris didn't have a high opinion of CotS.
Posted by: PabloD at June 21, 2026 10:05 AM (tTZHu)
116
China went from an Imperial government to a Communist one. Or was that just another form of The Big Men Are in Charge, and You Little People Are Nothing?
Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at June 21, 2026 10:06 AM (wzUl9)
117
81
Sorry to be a minority of one, but I detest fantasy fiction.
Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at June 21, 2026 09:48 AM (O0L8i)
*Shrug*
Some people hate BBQ too
Sorry to be a minority of one, but I detest fantasy fiction.
Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at June 21, 2026 09:48 AM (O0L8i)
*Shrug*
Some people hate BBQ too
Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, Buy ammo at June 21, 2026 10:06 AM (xcxpd)
118
Some people hate BBQ too
Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, Buy ammo at June 21, 2026 10:06 AM (xcxpd)
I don't understand those words of English in that order.
Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, Buy ammo at June 21, 2026 10:06 AM (xcxpd)
I don't understand those words of English in that order.
Posted by: dantesed at June 21, 2026 10:07 AM (Oy/m2)
119
Magic systems in so many stories seem to be, well, unsystematic. Magic, like tech, should have its own rules, and if there are exceptions they should be explained.
Good point. In the spirit of full disclosure, I should also admit an exception for Butcher's "Dresden Files" books. I think he generally does a good job with that.
Good point. In the spirit of full disclosure, I should also admit an exception for Butcher's "Dresden Files" books. I think he generally does a good job with that.
Posted by: Oddbob at June 21, 2026 10:08 AM (vTZFs)
120
79 Eris, I'm curious to see what he did with that big revelation about her father in that last book. I did not see that coming.
Posted by: bluebell at June 21, 2026 09:46 AM (afFes)
I read the first Flavia book some years ago, and then got distracted with other things and didn't read anymore. Maybe that's what I need to get me out of the current slump of disinterest.
Posted by: bluebell at June 21, 2026 09:46 AM (afFes)
I read the first Flavia book some years ago, and then got distracted with other things and didn't read anymore. Maybe that's what I need to get me out of the current slump of disinterest.
Posted by: Dash my lace wigs! at June 21, 2026 10:08 AM (h7ZuX)
121
Adjacent to Sabrina's topic of the Herculaneum scrolls and the need to preserve writing, I started speculating. How would I organize a modern library of Alexandria? Not so much the physical means but how to assign divisions of information.
Section 1 - facts: hard science like basic arithmetic, geography, how to make gun powder, etc.
Subsection - guess work and theories presented as facts including anything to do with Fauci or the United Nations and any system of government not based on individual freedom.
Section 2 - wisdom: myths, philosophy, literature, and, especially, poetry.
Section 1 would provide information. Section 2 would provide meaning.
The complex could be powered by burning the millions of unsold autobiographies of former First Ladies. That should cover the power needs for the first hundred years, maybe longer.
Guess I'm in a whimsical mood this morning.
Section 1 - facts: hard science like basic arithmetic, geography, how to make gun powder, etc.
Subsection - guess work and theories presented as facts including anything to do with Fauci or the United Nations and any system of government not based on individual freedom.
Section 2 - wisdom: myths, philosophy, literature, and, especially, poetry.
Section 1 would provide information. Section 2 would provide meaning.
The complex could be powered by burning the millions of unsold autobiographies of former First Ladies. That should cover the power needs for the first hundred years, maybe longer.
Guess I'm in a whimsical mood this morning.
Posted by: JTB at June 21, 2026 10:09 AM (yTvNw)
122
One problem with newspapers is that they self-destruct. Wood pulp paper gets acidic and destroys itself. I recall once looking through some archival newsprint and being horrified at how it crumbled every time I turned a page. Scanning is basically the ONLY way to preserve old newspapers.
Posted by: Trimegistus at June 21, 2026 10:09 AM (78a2H)
123
Thinking of our Revolution, it really was more a separation from England than replacing England government. The French, Russian, Chinese, Communist takeovers, Spanish and others I can't think of replaced the government not just separation from the government in charge.
Posted by: Skip at June 21, 2026 10:04 AM (Ia/+0)
---
The initial rebellion was to assert their traditional rights as Englishmen. It was only after their efforts were dismissed that independence was considered.
The Glorious Revolution of 1688 was their model, and even the term "Bill fo Rights" was copied from that event.
Posted by: Skip at June 21, 2026 10:04 AM (Ia/+0)
---
The initial rebellion was to assert their traditional rights as Englishmen. It was only after their efforts were dismissed that independence was considered.
The Glorious Revolution of 1688 was their model, and even the term "Bill fo Rights" was copied from that event.
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at June 21, 2026 10:09 AM (ZOv7s)
124
>>> 112 Thinking of our Revolution, it really was more a separation from England than replacing England government. The French, Russian, Chinese, Communist takeovers, Spanish and others I can't think of replaced the government not just separation from the government in charge.
Posted by: Skip at June 21, 2026 10:04 AM (Ia/+0)
The leaders asserted they were reclaiming their rights as Englishmen, and while the *original* No Kings concept was certainly new, they didn't invent a whole new and insane set of RIGHTS! as our modern-day commie retards have.
Posted by: Skip at June 21, 2026 10:04 AM (Ia/+0)
The leaders asserted they were reclaiming their rights as Englishmen, and while the *original* No Kings concept was certainly new, they didn't invent a whole new and insane set of RIGHTS! as our modern-day commie retards have.
Posted by: Helena Handbasket at June 21, 2026 10:09 AM (R+iUD)
125
Sorry, folks, I'm just not feeling right today, so I'm going to check out.
Hope you all have a lovely day.
Hope you all have a lovely day.
Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing (aka Eloquent Depression) at June 21, 2026 10:09 AM (qRla/)
126
"the assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand [wasn't] the catalyst of a war that would have broken out in any event over some other crisis, but rather as its all-but-unique precipitant."
-
There were many off ramps that might have been taken but instead all parties marched blindly into the abyss. I do think that the war guilt clause that Germany was forced to accept was a vast over simplification. Now, WWII was more clear cut.
-
There were many off ramps that might have been taken but instead all parties marched blindly into the abyss. I do think that the war guilt clause that Germany was forced to accept was a vast over simplification. Now, WWII was more clear cut.
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks and His All White Jury! at June 21, 2026 10:10 AM (ndZc7)
127
We can look at Herodotus and say he was full of crap, but he was writing what everyone said, and that's very useful to know.
Also: the modern idea of "just the facts" has its own weaknesses. Pre-modern audiences has a much stronger grasp of symbolism than we do.
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at June 21, 2026 09:49 AM (ZOv7s)
A Greek writer who lived just 100 years after Herodotus (his name escapes me) wrote “Herodotus is called the Father of History, but he is the Father of Lies.” So some saw it from the start.
Lost great works - we know very little about the Etruscans now, mostly inference and guesswork. Yet there was a multi volume work in existence at the time of Claudius which covered their history, culture, and language in detail, as told by Etruscan descendants still living at the time. A truly great loss.
Also: the modern idea of "just the facts" has its own weaknesses. Pre-modern audiences has a much stronger grasp of symbolism than we do.
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at June 21, 2026 09:49 AM (ZOv7s)
A Greek writer who lived just 100 years after Herodotus (his name escapes me) wrote “Herodotus is called the Father of History, but he is the Father of Lies.” So some saw it from the start.
Lost great works - we know very little about the Etruscans now, mostly inference and guesswork. Yet there was a multi volume work in existence at the time of Claudius which covered their history, culture, and language in detail, as told by Etruscan descendants still living at the time. A truly great loss.
Posted by: Tom Servo at June 21, 2026 10:10 AM (nuNhM)
128
I just finished Anthony Horowitz' "A Deadly Episode," another Horowitz and Hawthorne book. While it was kind of annoying to make himself a character in the previous books, it works here, because the murder takes place on the movie set of the filming of his first H/H book, "The Word Is Murder" in Hastings.
The Hawthorne actor is murdered - was he the target or was it the real one? The story-within-a-story is a flashback to Hawthorne's first case as a PI because one of those involved in that case turns up in Hastings...
The Hawthorne actor is murdered - was he the target or was it the real one? The story-within-a-story is a flashback to Hawthorne's first case as a PI because one of those involved in that case turns up in Hastings...
Posted by: Wethal at June 21, 2026 10:10 AM (gihWY)
129
If Barack Obama had a library, it would look like that top photo.
Posted by: Rev. Wishbone at June 21, 2026 10:10 AM (fkjGs)
130
I would like to pay a tribute to some of the fine fathers I recall in literature : "Atticus Finch" To Kill a Mockingbird, "Pa" in Little House on the Prairie and Matthew, the adoptive father of Anne in "Anne of Green Gables
Posted by: FenelonSpoke at June 21, 2026 10:12 AM (q5DOt)
131
What are these Alan Bradley "Flavia de Luce" books about? Comedies of manners, family dramas, or what?
Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at June 21, 2026 10:13 AM (wzUl9)
132
China went from an Imperial government to a Communist one. Or was that just another form of The Big Men Are in Charge, and You Little People Are Nothing?
Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at June 21, 2026 10:06 AM (wzUl9)
---
It went from an Imperial system to a Republican one, and the Golden Decade of Nationalist rule from 1928 to 1937 is often overlooked. Huge gains were made in modernizing China, building internal improvements, eliminating things like foot binding, etc. Having known peace for the first time in decades, the economy took off.
The Communists were on the ropes, and the Long March would have come to naught if Japan hadn't attacked in 1937.
The Communists took over (read my book!) and did make a break from tradition, and it was disastrous. After Mao died, the old Imperial system has reasserted itself to the point where the CCP is the new Mandarin bureaucracy, only far less competent.
Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at June 21, 2026 10:06 AM (wzUl9)
---
It went from an Imperial system to a Republican one, and the Golden Decade of Nationalist rule from 1928 to 1937 is often overlooked. Huge gains were made in modernizing China, building internal improvements, eliminating things like foot binding, etc. Having known peace for the first time in decades, the economy took off.
The Communists were on the ropes, and the Long March would have come to naught if Japan hadn't attacked in 1937.
The Communists took over (read my book!) and did make a break from tradition, and it was disastrous. After Mao died, the old Imperial system has reasserted itself to the point where the CCP is the new Mandarin bureaucracy, only far less competent.
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at June 21, 2026 10:14 AM (ZOv7s)
133
The empty libraries? It strikes me sometimes that libraries have, for quite a while, emphasized "access." We have "access" to all these books and periodicals through intricate interlibrary loan systems and digital databases. Don't see it here? Just ask, and we can probably get it for you. Everybody wants "access." But the items to be accessed are being stored in fewer and fewer places because who's got all that space and who wants the headache of maintaining it all? And some of those places don't loan all that stuff out anyway.
Posted by: Just Some Guy at June 21, 2026 10:15 AM (q3u5l)
134
Lost great works - we know very little about the Etruscans now, mostly inference and guesswork. Yet there was a multi volume work in existence at the time of Claudius which covered their history, culture, and language in detail, as told by Etruscan descendants still living at the time. A truly great loss.
Posted by: Tom Servo at June 21, 2026
***
I believe Claudius was said to be working on a history of the Etruscans before he became emperor. Or maybe that was Robert Graves' invention?
Posted by: Tom Servo at June 21, 2026
***
I believe Claudius was said to be working on a history of the Etruscans before he became emperor. Or maybe that was Robert Graves' invention?
Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at June 21, 2026 10:15 AM (wzUl9)
135
A Greek writer who lived just 100 years after Herodotus (his name escapes me) wrote “Herodotus is called the Father of History, but he is the Father of Lies.” So some saw it from the start.
Posted by: Tom Servo at June 21, 2026 10:10 AM (nuNhM)
---
Right, but historians are just as prone to character assassination as anyone else. I think Herodotus was a transitional figure between the idea of poetic, mythical history and a more grounded factual version. I note that Herodotus does frequently take the line of: "I don't say it's true, it's just what I heard."
Posted by: Tom Servo at June 21, 2026 10:10 AM (nuNhM)
---
Right, but historians are just as prone to character assassination as anyone else. I think Herodotus was a transitional figure between the idea of poetic, mythical history and a more grounded factual version. I note that Herodotus does frequently take the line of: "I don't say it's true, it's just what I heard."
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at June 21, 2026 10:16 AM (ZOv7s)
136
I believe Claudius was said to be working on a history of the Etruscans before he became emperor. Or maybe that was Robert Graves' invention?
Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at June 21, 2026 10:15 AM (wzUl9)
---
It's true. Graves was a Latin scholar, and Penguin uses his translation of Suetonius, who Graves drew upon heavily.
Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at June 21, 2026 10:15 AM (wzUl9)
---
It's true. Graves was a Latin scholar, and Penguin uses his translation of Suetonius, who Graves drew upon heavily.
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at June 21, 2026 10:17 AM (ZOv7s)
137
Just finished my yearly reading of LOTR. Starting on Atkinson’s “The British are Coming”
Happy Father’s Day to all you dads.
Happy Father’s Day to all you dads.
Posted by: Uncle Slayton at June 21, 2026 10:21 AM (PJ6NO)
138
74 ... "
This curmudgeon's problem isn't with microfiche per se, but with libraries putting their holdings on microfiche and then destroying the originals. This is one reason why complete runs of some of the great newspapers like the New York Herald and Los Angeles Examiner no longer exist."
MP4,
I know about that and it is an abombination. If endless space and resources can be created for AI crap data centers, space can be set aside for preservation of documents and books. It's in the same category with libraries purging their shelves if a book isn't used i a year or so. That might explain why it's hard to find classic literature and history in a lot of libraries. Makes me wonder if libraries are administered by people who couldn't cut it in the NEA teachers union.
This curmudgeon's problem isn't with microfiche per se, but with libraries putting their holdings on microfiche and then destroying the originals. This is one reason why complete runs of some of the great newspapers like the New York Herald and Los Angeles Examiner no longer exist."
MP4,
I know about that and it is an abombination. If endless space and resources can be created for AI crap data centers, space can be set aside for preservation of documents and books. It's in the same category with libraries purging their shelves if a book isn't used i a year or so. That might explain why it's hard to find classic literature and history in a lot of libraries. Makes me wonder if libraries are administered by people who couldn't cut it in the NEA teachers union.
Posted by: JTB at June 21, 2026 10:22 AM (yTvNw)
139
I do enjoy fantasy fiction but, it's true, it's mostly junk these days. I hate to say it, but if I see a female author's name, I'm likely to pass on it.
Posted by: lin-duh at June 21, 2026 10:24 AM (VCgbV)
140
Based on China videos being smuggled out, I'd say the CCP is heading for a fall as the dynastic cycle grinds remorselessly on. In every dynasty there is a point where greed and corruption cripple the government, where it is easier to suppress bad news than fix the problems, and that is exactly where we are today, and the mainland Chinese are increasingly talking about it.
Certain temples and sacred mountains associated with dynastic change have been fenced off and locked down. Beijing itself has been entirely encircled by fencing - not just traffic checkpoints (which it always had but are now buffed up) but actual monitored border walls.
Mentioning "June 4th or "6/4" is forbidden. Even saying six and four together is forbidden. That's how paranoid they are right now.
Certain temples and sacred mountains associated with dynastic change have been fenced off and locked down. Beijing itself has been entirely encircled by fencing - not just traffic checkpoints (which it always had but are now buffed up) but actual monitored border walls.
Mentioning "June 4th or "6/4" is forbidden. Even saying six and four together is forbidden. That's how paranoid they are right now.
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at June 21, 2026 10:25 AM (ZOv7s)
141
I finished Three Men in a Boat. Once again the moron recommendation comes through. Thoroughly enjoyable. I’ll start Three Men on the Bummel today. I hope Montmorency is along for the ride this time, too.
Posted by: Who Knew at June 21, 2026 10:25 AM (QeSDj)
142
I was intrigued by magical systems that had consequences, like physical drains on the sorcerer or his environs, or there was a price to pay for every warping of reality, a blowback that unintentionally transformed other aspects of the world long term. The impact had to be balanced against the desired result. Like magical radioactivity.
Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes at June 21, 2026 10:26 AM (kpS4V)
143
*I've always loved that name, probably because I had a crush on Kate Jackson.
Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing (aka Eloquent Depression) at June 21, 2026 09:52 AM (qRla/)
You are a man of taste and discernment, MP4.
Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing (aka Eloquent Depression) at June 21, 2026 09:52 AM (qRla/)
You are a man of taste and discernment, MP4.
Posted by: OrangeEnt at June 21, 2026 10:27 AM (1Ff7Z)
144
@131 --
I've read only the first Flavia de Luce novel, and that was long before I joined AoS.
She's a smart young girl who's a self-taught chemist. Has an older sister who's a featherhead. Father is missing; I think the girls live with a relative. The family has money.
The only other thing I recall about the book is that it opened with Flavia mixing up a concoction to lace her sister's face cream.
The books are on my TBR list -- but for a change, I don't own them. Will need to rely on the library.
Now, please, someone who knows much more about Flavia jump in and correct me!
I've read only the first Flavia de Luce novel, and that was long before I joined AoS.
She's a smart young girl who's a self-taught chemist. Has an older sister who's a featherhead. Father is missing; I think the girls live with a relative. The family has money.
The only other thing I recall about the book is that it opened with Flavia mixing up a concoction to lace her sister's face cream.
The books are on my TBR list -- but for a change, I don't own them. Will need to rely on the library.
Now, please, someone who knows much more about Flavia jump in and correct me!
Posted by: Weak Geek at June 21, 2026 10:27 AM (+zDJ+)
145
I didn't get in on the kickstart for American Paladin so I'm waiting for it to come out in 2 days, not that I'm counting.
Posted by: lin-duh at June 21, 2026 10:28 AM (VCgbV)
146
It might as well be called "Technobabble: The Book!"
Stephen Baxter and Alistair Reynolds did a much better job of telling their version of this story in half the pages.
Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at June 21, 2026 09:51 AM (gnNyN)
It could be the perceived value of a book three inches thick instead of one and a half. If I'm not mistaken, 40k words is still considered a novel, but who wants to pay $20 for a 40k word book?
Stephen Baxter and Alistair Reynolds did a much better job of telling their version of this story in half the pages.
Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at June 21, 2026 09:51 AM (gnNyN)
It could be the perceived value of a book three inches thick instead of one and a half. If I'm not mistaken, 40k words is still considered a novel, but who wants to pay $20 for a 40k word book?
Posted by: OrangeEnt at June 21, 2026 10:29 AM (1Ff7Z)
147
I was intrigued by magical systems that had consequences, like physical drains on the sorcerer or his environs, or there was a price to pay for every warping of reality, a blowback that unintentionally transformed other aspects of the world long term. The impact had to be balanced against the desired result. Like magical radioactivity.
Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes at June 21, 2026
***
Yes; a kind of magical Newtonian law. I've tinkered with the idea of inertia having to be considered too; that a colossal magical change to something in the world takes a little time to accomplish.
Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes at June 21, 2026
***
Yes; a kind of magical Newtonian law. I've tinkered with the idea of inertia having to be considered too; that a colossal magical change to something in the world takes a little time to accomplish.
Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at June 21, 2026 10:29 AM (wzUl9)
148
A Greek writer who lived just 100 years after Herodotus (his name escapes me) wrote “Herodotus is called the Father of old greek homos"
Posted by: Commissar of plenty and festive little hats at June 21, 2026 10:30 AM (Kt19C)
149
I was intrigued by magical systems that had consequences, like physical drains on the sorcerer or his environs, or there was a price to pay for every warping of reality, a blowback that unintentionally transformed other aspects of the world long term. The impact had to be balanced against the desired result. Like magical radioactivity.
Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes at June 21, 2026
Gandalf vs The Balrog
Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes at June 21, 2026
Gandalf vs The Balrog
Posted by: davidt at June 21, 2026 10:31 AM (Q+gd/)
150
Since we're talking about the Ancient Greeks and fantasy...
There's very fun novel from the 1990s titled
"Celestial Matters" by Richard Garfinkle.
It's a Hard Science SF novel where the Science is that of the Ancient Greeks with the Geocentric and Aristolean models being true.
And the Greeks are in a fierce physical, ideological and philosophical battle against the Middle Kingdom (China) and their Taoist Science lasting hundreds of years.
The Greeks believe they can achieve victory with a piece of the true(?) fire of the Sun, and thus plan a space journey, aaaand go!
I've never read another novel like this one before or after. Fun, entertaining read and very unjustly neglected.
Since we're talking about the Ancient Greeks and fantasy...
There's very fun novel from the 1990s titled
"Celestial Matters" by Richard Garfinkle.
It's a Hard Science SF novel where the Science is that of the Ancient Greeks with the Geocentric and Aristolean models being true.
And the Greeks are in a fierce physical, ideological and philosophical battle against the Middle Kingdom (China) and their Taoist Science lasting hundreds of years.
The Greeks believe they can achieve victory with a piece of the true(?) fire of the Sun, and thus plan a space journey, aaaand go!
I've never read another novel like this one before or after. Fun, entertaining read and very unjustly neglected.
Posted by: naturalfake at June 21, 2026 10:33 AM (iJfKG)
151
Avdynasty change in China would be something to see. ...from a distance. As for revolutions being coups, often that’s the case. I’ve argued that the Spanish in Mexico would have been much like that If the diseases that no body at the time knew the cause of or the cure for, the Spaniards would have been reasonably content to just sit in the place of the Aztec elite and collect the tribute. The Christian missionary aspect of the Spanish throws i little bit of a loop into that theory but without the devastating disease outbreaks, I think Mexico after the Spanish would be very like India after the Raj
Posted by: Who Knew at June 21, 2026 10:33 AM (QeSDj)
152
Gandalf vs The Balrog
Posted by: davidt at June 21, 2026 10:31 AM (Q+gd/)
---
Loyal angel vs rebel angel.
Posted by: davidt at June 21, 2026 10:31 AM (Q+gd/)
---
Loyal angel vs rebel angel.
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at June 21, 2026 10:33 AM (ZOv7s)
153
Thucydides who was quite a liar himself
Posted by: Miguel cervantes at June 21, 2026 10:36 AM (bXbFr)
154
See the kagan monograph
Posted by: Miguel cervantes at June 21, 2026 10:36 AM (bXbFr)
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