Can Religious Morality Be Coherent Without Belief?

Charles Murray of "The Bell Curve and "Losing Ground" fame, has written a book called Taking Religion Seriously.

That, in and of itself is a good thing, as the examples of the failures of societies that move away from religion are piling up. You know...the West! But his take seems to suggest an intellectual approach to religion, rather than the more common belief-based one. And that is immensely appealing to me, because regardless of the significant scholarship of Judaism, the intellectual analysis of Christianity is many times larger and more comprehensive.

Taking Religion Seriously is Murray's autobiographical account of the decades-long evolution in his stance toward the idea of God in general and Christianity in particular. He argues that religion is something that can be approached as an intellectual exercise. His account moves from the improbable physics of the Big Bang to recent discoveries about the nature of consciousness, from evolutionary psychology to hypotheses about a universal Moral Law. His exploration of Christianity delves into the authorship of the Gospels, the reliability of biblical texts, and the scholarship surrounding the resurrection story.

No matter one's religion...no matter one's belief or lack thereof, the intellectual and moral structure of Christianity has had a profound effect on the world. We live in a country founded by deeply devout men who also appreciated their religion for its ethical constructs. We are the product of Western culture that is based heavily on the teachings of the Bible (yes, both the Jewish and the Christian bibles) and the extrapolation of its teachings to an entire world.

And that is separate from the also vitally important belief in God, and his influence on us. What makes Murray's take so important is that in our current post-religious world, it is possible to construct a coherent moral framework from the teachings of Christianity. Is it ideal? No...absolutely not. Eventually it will fail in the absence of God, but perhaps as a bridge to a world in which there is a renewed sense of faith and religiosity (and there are signs that it is coming) it is a worthwhile endeavor.

Posted by: CBD at 12:00 PM

Comments

(Jump to bottom of comments)

1 1

Posted by: Skip at October 19, 2025 12:00 PM (+qU29)

2 First!

Posted by: Vivi at October 19, 2025 12:03 PM (cpunl)

3 It's not about the religion.
It's about the relationship.

Posted by: Quarter Twenty at October 19, 2025 12:03 PM (IFoQL)

4 1?

Posted by: JM's Neighbor Downstream. at October 19, 2025 12:03 PM (oftw2)

5 Any attempt is worthwhile.

The surest road to failure is not to try.

Posted by: sock_rat_eez at October 19, 2025 12:08 PM (kHop/)

6 Most people (including atheists) believe in the majority of the 10 commandments which a Judeo-Christian beliefs. When a person/society does not follow these beliefs, they can lose their way quickly.

Posted by: zogger at October 19, 2025 12:08 PM (HGKOZ)

7 Moral truth cannot exist without believing in God, or at least I can't see how. If morality is just another belief system, an opinion equal to others, then it's almost meaningless.

Posted by: Huck Follywood at October 19, 2025 12:08 PM (+5evm)

8 Somebody or something created the universe that we live in. Whether you believe it was God or a supreme being I refuse to believe Ex nihilo omnia happened randomly.

Posted by: Mister Scott (Formerly GWS) at October 19, 2025 12:11 PM (0N4FZ)

9 Evil?

It's a myth.

Posted by: Jerry Nadler at October 19, 2025 12:11 PM (7Q0e+)

10 " that in our current post-religious world,"

Uh, I don't that means what you think it means.

As long as folks worship God , it ain't "post-religious."

Posted by: no one of any consequence at October 19, 2025 12:13 PM (ZmEVT)

11
The surest road to failure is not to try.
Posted by: sock_rat_eez

Yoda that sounds like.

Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at October 19, 2025 12:14 PM (63Dwl)

12 Blaise Pascal wrote that you should never trust an atheist.

Posted by: no one of any consequence at October 19, 2025 12:14 PM (ZmEVT)

13 That's good advice

Posted by: Skip at October 19, 2025 12:18 PM (+qU29)

14 But his take seems to suggest an intellectual approach to religion, rather than the more common belief-based one.

I think you can have both. I certainly have approached religion that way. It takes at least some intellect to sort through the various religions in the world today. But it takes faith to accept the one that one settles upon.

Posted by: Diogenes at October 19, 2025 12:19 PM (2WIwB)

15 Thx CBD.
I really want to know what David French feels about this. Said no one ever

Posted by: Smell the Glove at October 19, 2025 12:19 PM (PWwWv)

16 ***regardless of the significant scholarship of Judaism, the intellectual analysis of Christianity is many times larger and more comprehensive.
---

And may be why it's falling apart.
Back to article.

Posted by: Braenyard - some Absent Friends are more equal than others _ at October 19, 2025 12:19 PM (eNtWE)

17 All that is good of Western Civilization is being turned on its head

Posted by: Skip at October 19, 2025 12:22 PM (+qU29)

18 I think one needs to be careful about taking a cargo cult approach to Christianity.

It's either actually true that we are by nature sinful and without hope of redemption on our own, so it was necessary for the Creator to offer himself as a sacrifice for our sins rather than extracting an appropriate penalty from us, or it is not.

If it is, then it is hopeless for the unconverted to try to reconstruct some simulacrum of the civilization that The Lord built through His elect (as a side product of the effort to save as many souls as is possible) in spite of their sinfulness.

It's why I shudder when anyone talks of "human rights" rather than "God-given Rights". Without the limits that God set, those aren't going to be the same concept. Nor as binding.

Posted by: Methos at October 19, 2025 12:22 PM (vSvIl)

19 I've always contended that it is illogical for an atheist to be altruistic. Not that they can't be but that it's just illogical.

Posted by: the way I see it at October 19, 2025 12:25 PM (EYmYM)

20 15, LOL!

you gotta wonder ...

Posted by: sock_rat_eez at October 19, 2025 12:27 PM (kHop/)

21 First point from me: when most people in America say "religion" they are thinking Christianity. If forced to go a little further, they will think of Judaism, Islam, and maybe "the eastern religions" and things like Greco-Roman mythology.

They will often exclude "philosophy" as it often doesn't reflect some deity. But religion is more rightly "worldview" than just relation to some deity. Confucianism is a religion, too. As is Progressivism - which replaces God with man's mind (often identified as "Reason"). It's still a religion.

So, that has to be kept in mind with people talking about "religion" or "religious."

Posted by: GWB at October 19, 2025 12:27 PM (Lcd/4)

22 ***in our current post-religious world, it is possible to construct a coherent moral framework from the teachings of Christianity.
----

Surely the intent is good, however, it sounds so much like the road Episcopalians, Presbyterians and others are on. It is a great conflict that we must stick to the teaching or make the decision what is and what isn't. When we do that we supersede the teaching. Tread lightly.

Posted by: Braenyard - some Absent Friends are more equal than others _ at October 19, 2025 12:28 PM (eNtWE)

23 Speaking of religion, some smart asses on X are having fun with photos of yesterday's No Kings rallies.

https://is.gd/ZGVQZA

I drove by our local NoKs rally and it was larger than I anticipated, several dozen. So far as I could tell, there was no violence, blocking of traffic, vandalism etc. If you want to stand around in the courthouse parking lot holding foolish signs, you go girl!

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Fat, Dumb, and Happy at October 19, 2025 12:29 PM (L/fGl)

24 Imagine is all one needs to know if Western Religion didn't exist, but do also think those positives can also mean negatives

Posted by: Skip at October 19, 2025 12:29 PM (+qU29)

25 Posted by: GWB at October 19, 2025 12:27 PM (Lcd/4)

The Sadducees were a religious sect but didn't believe in an afterlife. Never did understand how that would come about except a belief that God helped or punished you in this life based on how you acted.

Posted by: the way I see it at October 19, 2025 12:34 PM (EYmYM)

26 Second, yes, you can live within a Christian worldview without the "religious trappings" of Sunday worship and praying before your meal, or believing there really is a personal God and that Jesus is His son.

I could write a treatise on the underlying elements of Christianity that enable a free Republic. And the real problem is that if you hold to the "Christian worldview" without the deity part, you erode those underlying elements a tiny bit. And that allows chipping away at those things.

I think it also allows the derivatives (freedom, self-governance, etc.) to become the objects of worship themselves.

And in all of those parts, it erodes the foundation of what we have had.

Now, I must shuffle off to Dallas to catch my ride home from the MoMe. /waves/

Posted by: GWB at October 19, 2025 12:35 PM (Lcd/4)

27

Good morning, good people who live in this most exceptional country, from the Adirondacks, a small slice of an extraordinary nation.

As so often posted, may all effort on your part result in maximal benefit with the commensurate grievous heartburn for the leftwit fungi that befoul our areas.

You are Americans, thus that head is held HIGH and PROUD as befits us.

Posted by: IRONGRAMPA at October 19, 2025 12:35 PM (vFbHf)

28
I drove by our local NoKs rally and it was larger than I anticipated, several dozen. So far as I could tell, there was no violence, blocking of traffic, vandalism etc. If you want to stand around in the courthouse parking lot holding foolish signs, you go girl!
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks

From PJ Media:

During a live Newsmax broadcast from the National Mall, correspondent Alana Austin found herself face to face with exactly the kind of protester too stupid to realize they’ve said too much. The woman, sporting pink hair and clutching signs with Antifa imagery, identified herself as an "anti-fascist" but swore she wasn't formally part of "Antifa." Sure.

What came next was the real kicker. When Austin asked about the protest's peaceful vibe, the woman didn't hesitate. "We've all been told to be peaceful," she explained matter-of-factly. "We've had training on how to be peaceful and to deescalate."

Training.

As in organized, structured instruction on how to behave at a protest.

Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at October 19, 2025 12:35 PM (63Dwl)

29 Antifa is just an idea. An idea that requires pamphlets with instructions on how to protest.

https://is.gd/LdKWJg

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Fat, Dumb, and Happy at October 19, 2025 12:35 PM (L/fGl)

30 If western religion didn't exist we would be barbarians.

Posted by: Braenyard - some Absent Friends are more equal than others _ at October 19, 2025 12:35 PM (eNtWE)

31 Objective morality requires:

Existence following death, the form of which is affected by how the earthly life is lived.

If we are merely worm food, all paths end the same regardless of how you live your life.

Posted by: Biff Pocoroba at October 19, 2025 12:36 PM (XvL8K)

32 Morality without a higher being?

Confucianism pops to mind.

Posted by: Anna Puma at October 19, 2025 12:36 PM (azCAX)

33 Best NoKs interview.

https://is.gd/JKoo3l

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Fat, Dumb, and Happy at October 19, 2025 12:39 PM (L/fGl)

34 There's an old joke that almost all religions have 4 things in common:
1 - They tell us how it all started and where we come from;
2 - They tell us how to conduct ourselves while we are here;
3 - They tell us what happens to us after we die;
4 - They use candles.

Posted by: Nazdar at October 19, 2025 12:39 PM (NcvvS)

35 If we are merely worm food, all paths end the same regardless of how you live your life.
Posted by: Biff Pocoroba at October 19, 2025 12:36 PM (XvL8K

And thus the illogical aspect of it.

Morality would have to be relative to self interest in order for it to be logical.

Posted by: the way I see it at October 19, 2025 12:39 PM (EYmYM)

36
Posted by: Aliassmithsmith at October 19, 2025 12:38 PM (rwnEX)
-

Ignorant Stormfront regurgitator.

Posted by: Biden's Dog sniffs a whole lotta malarkey, at October 19, 2025 12:40 PM (4tvN6)

37 And lo and behold an ass brays in the wilderness.

Posted by: Anna Puma at October 19, 2025 12:40 PM (azCAX)

38 Posted by: Aliassmithsmith at October 19, 2025 12:39 PM (rwnEX)

I find it hilarious when evil people try to use their ignorance of the Bible in their arguments.

Posted by: the way I see it at October 19, 2025 12:42 PM (EYmYM)

39 39 And lo and behold an ass brays in the wilderness.
Posted by: Anna Puma
-------------

Cannot be heard if no one listens.

Posted by: Braenyard - some Absent Friends are more equal than others _ at October 19, 2025 12:42 PM (eNtWE)

40
g'early afternoon, 'rons

Posted by: AltonJackson at October 19, 2025 12:42 PM (tljrc)

41 Objective morality requires:

Existence following death, the form of which is affected by how the earthly life is lived.

If we are merely worm food, all paths end the same regardless of how you live your life.

Posted by: Biff Pocoroba at October 19, 2025 12:36 PM (XvL8K)

Ah...can there be morality without an afterlife? Can we care enough about others to lead a moral life without the promises of religions?

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (Flying the American Flag!) at October 19, 2025 12:43 PM (3UGfd)

42 39 And lo and behold an ass brays in the wilderness.
Posted by: Anna Puma

You take that back!

Posted by: Francis, The Talking Mule at October 19, 2025 12:43 PM (oftw2)

43 There's a notable schism underway in the Anglican communion, led, I believe, by the conservative clergy of Africa who have quite obviously had enough of the toxic progressivism of the Church of England and the long line of cloth-headed men (and women) of the cloth who have frittered away the church's authority in pursuit of increasingly insane, secular, left-wing obsessions.

Posted by: Paco at October 19, 2025 12:44 PM (mADJX)

44 I don't have time for idiots today.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (Flying the American Flag!) at October 19, 2025 12:44 PM (3UGfd)

45 The Sadducees were a religious sect but didn't believe in an afterlife.
Posted by: the way I see it at October 19, 2025 12:34 PM

That's why they were sad, you see.

Posted by: Duncanthrax at October 19, 2025 12:44 PM (0sNs1)

46 The Left support breaking every commandment on a daily basis.

Posted by: the way I see it at October 19, 2025 12:44 PM (EYmYM)

47 Not only is the reality of a loving and omniscient Creator the basis of all human life, the opposition, Satan and his minions are real and currently raging on the earth.
Satan understands the plan. He was offered the role of Jesus Christ in the premortal life, but wanted all glory for himself.
We live in the great winding up scene of all history. This is not the time for side line, popcorn munchers.
We scoff at the power of the devil at our peril.

Posted by: Elrond Hubbard at October 19, 2025 12:45 PM (WQDw6)

48 An atheist quoting the Bible is almost as ridiculous as a liberal quoting the Constitution.

They pick certain parts out of context and try to make a case that is almost the opposite of what was the original intent.

Idiot.

Posted by: nurse ratched at October 19, 2025 12:46 PM (68Kcn)

49 I like the Bible and others too.
But why should i trust King James? I don't know his first name.

It is simply an innocent question.

I must AI myself and King James.

Frank James maybe.

Posted by: dreamingrobot at October 19, 2025 12:46 PM (EyfuW)

50 Nope. Christian virtues without Christ are foolishness. The Bible says so itself.

Posted by: 29Victor at October 19, 2025 12:46 PM (0MjtC)

51 Do I think the universe was created in 7 days? Of course not.

Do I believe hashem spoke the universe into creation? Of course.

Posted by: San Franpsycho at October 19, 2025 12:47 PM (Q8x8G)

52 I am not a Christian, yet I consider myself a moral person. I don't believe in worshipping and body or any thing. But I do know right from wrong, which obviously is based on Christian tradition.

I think Christianity was a path (not the only one) to the civilization of society, but I don't think those of use with a different view are destroying society and if we are being judged so, that is not very Christian. 😁

Posted by: BonnieBlue at October 19, 2025 12:47 PM (M6/WM)

53 "As is Progressivism - which replaces God with man's mind (often identified as "Reason"). It's still a religion."

ANYTHING can be practiced like a religion.

And in this our stupid age way too many people adopt as their one true shining force a great many very stupid things.

Feminists, vegans, "allies", progressives, "climate", take your pick.
There are endtimes fundamentalist zealots for each, who would blissfully kill a heretic for their gods.

Posted by: barbarausa at October 19, 2025 12:48 PM (enw9G)

54 Why are all these people so upset at Don King and Stephen King?

What? Oh...

Never mind.

Posted by: Emily Litella at October 19, 2025 12:49 PM (PiwSw)

55 Either the Resurrection happened and we benefit, or it didn't and we are all worm-food.

I think "The Acts of the Apostles" should have been named "The Acts of the Holy Ghost."

You cannot have a relationship with God if you don't believe in Him. Faith is a gift. But when you lose it, you have to humble yourself and pray for it to be rekindled. And if you were never catechized, sometimes you have to pray for it. Behold, I am knocking at the door. If you open it, I and My Father will enter and sup with you."

Posted by: no one of any consequence at October 19, 2025 12:49 PM (ZmEVT)

56 And Gayle King. What did she ever do to them?

Posted by: no one of any consequence at October 19, 2025 12:49 PM (ZmEVT)

57 Posted by: BonnieBlue at October 19, 2025 12:47 PM (M6/WM)

You of course don't have to clarify but are you just some other religion or an atheist?

Posted by: the way I see it at October 19, 2025 12:50 PM (EYmYM)

58
Youthful No Kings protesters:

https://t.ly/yTZAj

Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at October 19, 2025 12:50 PM (63Dwl)

59 You are Americans, thus that head is held HIGH and PROUD as befits us.
Posted by: IRONGRAMPA at October 19, 2025 12:35 PM (vFbHf)
====

Realizing I am fairly reliant on these comments over the last few years. Thanks IG

Posted by: San Franpsycho at October 19, 2025 12:50 PM (Q8x8G)

60 James' last name was Stuart.

Posted by: no one of any consequence at October 19, 2025 12:52 PM (ZmEVT)

61 Das Drug Boot.

Fox News@FoxNews
JUST IN: President Trump announced the destruction of a “drug-carrying submarine that was navigating" toward the U.S., says "two surviving terrorists" will be prosecuted in their home countries.
https://is.gd/eSxUhQ

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Fat, Dumb, and Happy at October 19, 2025 12:52 PM (L/fGl)

62 "Where there is true superiority of mind, pride will always be under regulation."

Posted by: no one of any consequence at October 19, 2025 12:53 PM (ZmEVT)

63 I don't have time for idiots today.

OK. Can you pencil me in for some time next week? Wednesday afternoon is good for me.

Posted by: Oddbob at October 19, 2025 12:54 PM (DQZwq)

64 "Youthful No Kings protesters:

https://t.ly/yTZAj"

Wow. I am 70 and look 10 years younger.

Posted by: no one of any consequence at October 19, 2025 12:54 PM (ZmEVT)

65 "OK. Can you pencil me in for some time next week? Wednesday afternoon is good for me."

Threadwinner!

Posted by: no one of any consequence at October 19, 2025 12:55 PM (ZmEVT)

66 OK. Can you pencil me in for some time next week? Wednesday afternoon is good for me."

Threadwinner!
Posted by: no one of any consequence at October 19, 2025 12:55 PM (ZmEVT)

Hah. Second that emotion

Posted by: the way I see it at October 19, 2025 12:57 PM (EYmYM)

67 "Youthful No Kings protesters:

https://t.ly/yTZAj"

Wow. I am 70 and look 10 years younger.

Posted by: no one of any consequence at October 19, 2025 12:54 PM

The same aging hippies that protested the war in Vietnam and the "bush" Gulf war. Protesting is all they have left, that and whole foods shopping trips.

Posted by: Mister Scott (Formerly GWS) at October 19, 2025 12:57 PM (0N4FZ)

68 Anti-American Bandstand.

https://is.gd/F2X8d3

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Fat, Dumb, and Happy at October 19, 2025 12:57 PM (L/fGl)

69 And Gayle King. What did she ever do to them?

Posted by: no one of any consequence at October 19, 2025 12:49 PM (ZmEVT)
-

Let's not forget Nosmo.

Posted by: Biden's Dog sniffs a whole lotta malarkey, at October 19, 2025 12:57 PM (4tvN6)

70 And Gayle King. What did she ever do to them?

Posted by: no one of any consequence at October 19, 2025 12:49 PM (ZmEVT

And all those German Shepards

Posted by: the way I see it at October 19, 2025 12:58 PM (EYmYM)

71 58
Youthful No Kings protesters:

https://t.ly/yTZAj

Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr.
------------------

Went through a search of 'kings' yesterday on X. I believe we are benefit of selective editing. I saw mass group shots with many young people in attendance and of the walk around vids it appeared that the videographer was seeking out the elder groups within the mass.

Posted by: Braenyard - some Absent Friends are more equal than others _ at October 19, 2025 12:59 PM (eNtWE)

72 As a reminder (with an IQ of 100 as average):

IQ of 0 to 25 were idiots.
IQ of 26 to 50 were imbeciles
IQ of 51 to 70 were morons.

Morons could communicate and learn common tasks; imbeciles stalled mentally at about six years old; and idiots couldn't respond to stimulus or communicate with any level of competency.

Posted by: Wesley Crusher at October 19, 2025 12:59 PM (0sNs1)

73 Shepherds

Posted by: the way I see it at October 19, 2025 12:59 PM (EYmYM)

74 You of course don't have to clarify but are you just some other religion or an atheist?
Posted by: the way I see it at October 19, 2025 12:50 PM (EYmYM)

I don't really consider myself an atheist, but also no other religion. The world and everything here got here somehow, but as for it being some man in the clouds laying judgement on how I live my life, I do not believe that.

Posted by: BonnieBlue at October 19, 2025 01:00 PM (M6/WM)

75 Ah, here is a topic on which I have so many thoughts, from a lifetime of living, reading, and contemplation, that I would wear out my poor stiff old fingers trying to compose comments.

However, experience, and my father's wise advice, has taught me not to jump with both feet into the middle of a dog fight. Not that all the Morons here would be combative, but I just don't want to hang my unique personal beliefs out there for a public piñata-bashing. I got that out of my system, mostly, back in the Religion Forum on CompuServe, pre-wwweb.

Similarly, I am tempted to engage with the comments of a certain $#!+-stirrer, but am old enough, and lazy enough, to be able to resist feeding the trolls.
😇😉

Posted by: mindful webworker - Praise the Lord and pass the pancakes. at October 19, 2025 01:01 PM (KDyF9)

76 They kept their young violent red youth brigades at home for the most part per orders.

Posted by: the way I see it at October 19, 2025 01:01 PM (EYmYM)

77 I saw a nice round up of the pro Hamas rallies yesterday . Like did anyone under 65 attend?

Even MSNBC commented how much white hair there was at the Boston one.

Posted by: Its Go Time Donald at October 19, 2025 01:02 PM (5Yz+T)

78 @72 Somalis average 71. A nation of Pakleds

Posted by: Smell the Glove at October 19, 2025 01:02 PM (PWwWv)

79 I think something weird and not good happened during the Enlightenment, spiritually.

I don't know if there's a link or it just coincided.
But since then, and specially starting 19-20th century, it's like humanity has been in a delirium fever.

I think the fever started to break, most noticeably during the pandemic.

People are feeling the presence of Holy Spirit again.

Posted by: vmom deport deport deport at October 19, 2025 01:02 PM (GhIJO)

80 Adam Mockler@adammocklerr
The Right has built pipelines to radicalize young people.
It starts with fitness videos & leads to RFK Jr. It starts with dating advice & leads to Andrew Tate.
We have a culture problem, and we have to fight back.

-
Well, I do like their anti exercise stance.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Fat, Dumb, and Happy at October 19, 2025 01:03 PM (L/fGl)

81 but as for it being some man in the clouds laying judgement on how I live my life, I do not believe that.
Posted by: BonnieBlue
_________

So, what difference does it make how you live your life?

Posted by: Biff Pocoroba at October 19, 2025 01:03 PM (XvL8K)

82 They kept their young violent trans red youth brigades at home for the most part per orders.

FIFY

Posted by: no one of any consequence at October 19, 2025 01:04 PM (ZmEVT)

83 So, what difference does it make how you live your life?
Posted by: Biff Pocoroba at October 19, 2025 01:03 PM (XvL8K)

You can live your life however you want. Do you really need the threat of punishment for you to live a moral life? I don't.

Posted by: BonnieBlue at October 19, 2025 01:05 PM (M6/WM)

84 The "Enlightenment" was French revolutionaries spillover into the rest of Western Europe. It was always anti-religion (Catholic).

Posted by: no one of any consequence at October 19, 2025 01:05 PM (ZmEVT)

85 PJ media- Don 🍋 latest to push that ICE is just rounding up any minority citizen to deport them so get a legal firearm to protect yourself

Posted by: Skip at October 19, 2025 01:06 PM (+qU29)

86 Damn Vance!

https://is.gd/qm4bQQ

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Fat, Dumb, and Happy at October 19, 2025 01:07 PM (L/fGl)

87 Trump is amazing. He has got the left to turn into 2A people. 🤣

Posted by: Its Go Time Donald at October 19, 2025 01:07 PM (5Yz+T)

88 68 Anti-American Bandstand.

https://is.gd/F2X8d3
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks,.
---------------------------------------------

That link ate so much Beelink memory that I had to Ctrl-Alt-Del to get out of it. Some of the X spots are bad and eventually able to retreat. Couldn't get out of this one.

Posted by: Braenyard - some Absent Friends are more equal than others _ at October 19, 2025 01:08 PM (OfsDL)

89 Cock polisher Don LeMon is going to get folks killt.

Posted by: Mr Aspirin Factory, red heifer owner at October 19, 2025 01:09 PM (LjSYW)

90 It’s wild how exercise is white supremacism while the NFL is 70% black.

Posted by: Its Go Time Donald at October 19, 2025 01:09 PM (5Yz+T)

91 Hippies in general hated punks and new wavers what evers. With their broad strokes of the brush most of the World should die non violently.

Posted by: dreamingrobot at October 19, 2025 01:09 PM (EyfuW)

92 So, what difference does it make how you live your life?
Posted by: Biff Pocoroba at October 19, 2025 01:03 PM (XvL8K)

You can live your life however you want. Do you really need the threat of punishment for you to live a moral life? I don't.
Posted by: BonnieBlue
_________

I don't understand what you mean by "moral" then. If I live my life in what you would consider to be an immoral way, what difference would it make? We're both equally dead in the end.

Posted by: Biff Pocoroba at October 19, 2025 01:10 PM (XvL8K)

93 Here's another King no one could possibly protest

https://youtu.be/36YXdagfY5w

Posted by: mindful webworker - Out of the clear blue of the Western sky at October 19, 2025 01:10 PM (KDyF9)

94 Youthful No Kings protesters:

https://t.ly/yTZAj

Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr.
===

The guy with the walker was scary, very scary.

Posted by: Jukin the Deplorable and Totally Dangerous at October 19, 2025 01:10 PM (xvV+O)

95 Is there evidence of a single US citizen or legal immigrant getting arrested by ICE just because they’re brown?

No of course not. But in their retarded worldview it happens 1000 times a day.

Posted by: Its Go Time Donald at October 19, 2025 01:11 PM (5Yz+T)

96 Are we in a "post-religious" world ? I don't think so.

Posted by: runner at October 19, 2025 01:11 PM (g47mK)

97 Adam Mockler@adammocklerr
The Right has built pipelines to radicalize young people.
It starts with fitness videos & leads to RFK Jr. It starts with dating advice & leads to Andrew Tate.
We have a culture problem, and we have to fight back.

So, HordeSource (tm) is part of a The Right pipeline?

Posted by: Duncanthrax at October 19, 2025 01:12 PM (0sNs1)

98 The people at the no kings rally are democrat underground but only the semi skinny ones waddled out.

Posted by: Jukin the Deplorable and Totally Dangerous at October 19, 2025 01:13 PM (xvV+O)

99 If I live my life in what you would consider to be an immoral way, what difference would it make? We're both equally dead in the end.
Posted by: Biff Pocoroba at October 19, 2025 01:10 PM (XvL8K)

Sure, but would you be living your best life? Would you be happy doing it? Would you be hurting others or helping them? Not sure why you need a reason to be a good person.

Posted by: BonnieBlue at October 19, 2025 01:13 PM (faosH)

100 Why can't they both lose?

Democrat California State Senator Who Authorized Bill to Decriminalize Knowingly Giving People HIV To Challenge Nancy Pelosi In Primary

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Fat, Dumb, and Happy at October 19, 2025 01:13 PM (L/fGl)

101 NBC called the protestors “q tips”. I guess that’s slang for old people? I had never heard it before.

But that’s what one commentator said live on air on nbc.

Posted by: Its Go Time Donald at October 19, 2025 01:14 PM (5Yz+T)

102 Whatifalthist yesterday posted on YouTube The Rise and Fall of California which is really the rise and fall of the West. It has it all -- a natural utopia, developed by hard men, dissolving into a cultureless coalition of Leftists and elite corporatists who betrayed their own to create a moorless distopia.

Truely worth the hour long viewing.

Posted by: Field Marshal Zhukov, now, where does a war hero get some lubrication around here? at October 19, 2025 01:14 PM (wBaIH)

103 The Right has built pipelines to radicalize young people.
It starts with fitness videos & leads to RFK Jr. It starts with dating advice & leads to Andrew Tate.

==

would he prefer it led to cutting your dick off instead ??

Posted by: runner at October 19, 2025 01:14 PM (g47mK)

104 Blaise Pascal wrote that you should never trust an atheist.

True dat.
No foundation on which their morality stands.

Posted by: The Man from Athens at October 19, 2025 01:15 PM (3YGdZ)

105 Whoopi wanted everyone to wear blackface to confuse ICE so they had a hard time finding a minority to arrest and deport.

Those people are insane

Posted by: Skip at October 19, 2025 01:15 PM (+qU29)

106 101 QTips was how white haired old fools were IDed in Texas since the 1980s.

Posted by: Field Marshal Zhukov, now, where does a war hero get some lubrication around here? at October 19, 2025 01:16 PM (wBaIH)

107 So, what difference does it make how you live your life?
Posted by: Biff Pocoroba at October 19, 2025 01:03 PM (XvL8K)

I'm glad she says she lives it based on Christian principles but if there is no standard or judgement then why do anything that's not in your self interest?

If you find a wallet with a few thousand dollars in it, why return it?

If the kid at McDonalds gives you back change for a twenty when you gave him a ten, why tell him?

And so on.

Biggest example is why put yourself in danger to save someone if this is the only life you have?

Again I'm glad non believers do follow a Christian moral code but it's illogical to me.

I assume though most would say that a moral society is in their self interest and why they do it.

And on a personal note I'm not a believer because I'm afraid of punishment. I'm a believer because of love and not wanting to disappoint the one I love.

Posted by: the way I see it at October 19, 2025 01:16 PM (EYmYM)

108 It's not about the religion.
It's about the relationship.
Posted by: Quarter Twenty at October 19, 2025 12:03 PM (IFoQL)

Very true dat.

Posted by: The Man from Athens at October 19, 2025 01:16 PM (3YGdZ)

109 VA Dem Gov Candidate Spanberger "Horrified" That Trump Enforces Immigration Law

-
And mortgage fraud laws!

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Fat, Dumb, and Happy at October 19, 2025 01:16 PM (L/fGl)

110 Sure, but would you be living your best life? Would you be happy doing it? Would you be hurting others or helping them? Not sure why you need a reason to be a good person.
Posted by: BonnieBlue
________

Hitler, Stalin and Mao all thought they were doing good. How can you call them immoral if there is no judgment of any type in your system?

Posted by: Biff Pocoroba at October 19, 2025 01:16 PM (XvL8K)

111
Do you really need the threat of punishment for you to live a moral life? I don't.
Posted by: BonnieBlue

==============

Hey, BonnieBlue! I might not be attentive enough, but I don't think I see your nic here much.

Anyway... I agree with you.

Posted by: Blonde Morticia at October 19, 2025 01:17 PM (ldc7S)

112 My philosophy has always been based on the "golden rule." Do onto others as you would have them do onto you. That philosophy covers a lot of ground and isn't "owned" by any particular religion. Any religion worth its salt, however, teaches that philosophy. Some don't. One big one in particular teaches the opposite, and it conflicts with the others.

I grew up being "forced" to attend church every Sunday. When I was "confirmed" it was inherent that the confirmed would choose a Bible verse best representing themselves. I chose one that inferred that you didn't have to go to church to be a good Christian, or in my opinion, a good person.

I view structured religion as the equivalent to the warnings on the side of medication bottles. Most don't need them. Some do. Some are comforted by them.

Posted by: Orson at October 19, 2025 01:18 PM (dIske)

113 I found this not only humorous but spot on:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ly1cPYSqgR4

Posted by: Jukin the Deplorable and Totally Unserious at October 19, 2025 01:18 PM (xvV+O)

114 I consider myself a true agnostic. I'm not afraid to commit, but sometimes "I don't know" really means "I don't know, and I refuse to be a hypocrite and profess belief in something that I can't be sure of. I hope that there is a creator and it all means something, but I find that there is a disappointing lack of objective evidence for or against.
But, I was raised in a Christian household, and I have found that the moral foundation that it instilled in me as an invaluable guide to how to live my life. A guide that is far superior to most others.
It works well for me as an individual, but I can see how it would not work for a society as a whole, as without religion as a base for the moral principles a society would eventually drift into selfishness as the only guiding principle and in the end, anarchy and collapse.
I sincerely hope that this isn't what we are witnessing now.

Posted by: Making it up as I go at October 19, 2025 01:19 PM (vHZOL)

115 Can Religious Morality Be Coherent Without Belief?

Some can. I think that Islam, for instance, is a religion of doing, not believing, that is, do the five pillars and get to heaven, even if you don't really believe it.

Posted by: toby928 at October 19, 2025 01:19 PM (jc0TO)

116
58
Youthful No Kings protesters:

https://t.ly/yTZAj

Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at October 19, 2025 12:50 PM

-------

*raises fist*

*realizes that forearm resembles a stack of Pringles potato chips*

Posted by: Semi-Literate Thug at October 19, 2025 01:20 PM (ES1Rb)

117 Was someone planning another assassination attempt?

https://tinyurl.com/3pzwekvd

Posted by: Biden's Dog sniffs a whole lotta malarkey, at October 19, 2025 01:20 PM (4tvN6)

118 It works well for me as an individual, but I can see how it would not work for a society as a whole, as without religion as a base for the moral principles a society would eventually drift into selfishness as the only guiding principle and in the end, anarchy and collapse.
I sincerely hope that this isn't what we are witnessing now.
Posted by: Making it up as I go
__________

"We cannot judge of the effects of Atheism from the conduct of persons who have been educated as believers in God and in the midst of a nation which believes in God. If we should ever see a generation of men, especially a generation of Englishmen, to whom the word ‘God’ had no meaning at all, we should get a light upon the subject which might be lurid enough."

JF Stephen in 1881.

Posted by: Biff Pocoroba at October 19, 2025 01:21 PM (XvL8K)

119 Buddhism seems like another. You are going to ride the wheel whether you believe it or not.

Posted by: toby928 at October 19, 2025 01:21 PM (jc0TO)

120 I would note that I haven't been to a church service in over 45 years.

Posted by: the way I see it at October 19, 2025 01:21 PM (EYmYM)

121

I'll bet the view from the top of that big building is snap-fab!

Posted by: Gays for Gaza at October 19, 2025 01:22 PM (hEJXM)

122 Don't mind the protesting as it disproves their assumption that we possess a king and it is their right and it shows their stupidity.

Posted by: The Man from Athens at October 19, 2025 01:23 PM (3YGdZ)

123 Was someone planning another assassination attempt?

https://tinyurl.com/3pzwekvd
Posted by: Biden's Dog sniffs a whole lotta malarkey, at October 19, 2025 01:20 PM (4tvN6)

possibly....

Posted by: runner at October 19, 2025 01:24 PM (g47mK)

124 Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear.

Thomas Jefferson

Posted by: Matthew Kant Cipher at October 19, 2025 01:24 PM (kOluj)

125 Buddhism seems like another. You are going to ride the wheel whether you believe it or not.
Posted by: toby928 at October 19, 2025 01:21 PM (jc0T

Yeah but does it affect what you are going to come back as?

Posted by: the way I see it at October 19, 2025 01:24 PM (EYmYM)

126 I saw another name this morning: Antique-fa. Heh.

Posted by: Archimedes at October 19, 2025 01:24 PM (Riz8t)

127 Thomas Jefferson
Posted by: Matthew Kant Cipher at October 19, 2025 01:24 PM (kOluj)

Non believers always think it's fear that make a believer. Just the opposite.

Posted by: the way I see it at October 19, 2025 01:25 PM (EYmYM)

128 I'm referring to Christianity.

Posted by: the way I see it at October 19, 2025 01:27 PM (EYmYM)

129 Flying from Texas the Washington state is amazing. The miles and miles and miles of fflatness, then mountains with so few roads and houses and cities in sight. It’s vast out here in the west.

And beautiful.

Posted by: nurse ratched at October 19, 2025 01:27 PM (68Kcn)

130 Whoopi wanted everyone to wear blackface to confuse ICE so they had a hard time finding a minority to arrest and deport.

Those people are insane
Posted by: Skip

What these idiots cannot comprehend is that there are on order of 50 million illegal aliens in the country; a significant percentage are wanted for crimes far worse than jumping the border; the government has known for years right where they are; and it is just a matter of bothering to pick them up.

There could be thousands of ICE arrests a day for years and still a list of known felons to get to.

Posted by: Itinerant Alley Butcher at October 19, 2025 01:27 PM (/lPRQ)

131 Trying is the first step towards failing

Posted by: Josephistan at October 19, 2025 01:28 PM (FLx59)

132 Trying is the first step towards failing
Posted by: Josephistan at October 19, 2025 01:28 PM

Word to live by. If it don't rain, the roof don't leak. If it's raining you can't do anything about it anyway.

Posted by: toby928 at October 19, 2025 01:29 PM (jc0TO)

133 If I live my life in what you would consider to be an immoral way, what difference would it make? We're both equally dead in the end.
Posted by: Biff Pocoroba at October 19, 2025 01:10 PM (XvL8K)

Sure, but would you be living your best life? Would you be happy doing it? Would you be hurting others or helping them? Not sure why you need a reason to be a good person.
Posted by: BonnieBlue at October 19, 2025 01:13 PM (faosH)

It might be more useful to think of it this way:

BB you live a functionally Judeo-Christian life because you live in a Judeo-Christian society, but-

let's say that you had been raised in a Muslim society. Your center of morality would be different. F'instance, according to the Koran/hadiths, you could go up to a Buddhist, rob him, shoot him in the head, and rape his wife, and you would be a muslim in perfectly good moral standing because these are not "people of the Book" and have no rights. There's a very good chance muslim BB would be just fine with that.

You want to claim independence from the law of God, but which "law" is that? You didn't come up with your current morality completely independent of all religious influence. IMO.

YMMV.

Posted by: naturalfake at October 19, 2025 01:30 PM (iJfKG)

134 I am just a half step from being an atheist. What holds me back is "Who pushed the button?" One of the hallmarks of the Enlightenment was throwing away the idea of self generation. No, maggots do not spontaneously appear on exposed meat; they are the result of flies laying eggs on that meat. My mind balks at the idea of the components of the universe spontaneously springing from nothing. But my mind also balks at the idea of an eternal god bringing those components to life. Struggle as I might, I simply can not reconcile the two.

Posted by: Captain Josepha Sabin at October 19, 2025 01:30 PM (DK5Sh)

135 There is no try. There is do or do not.

Posted by: JackStraw at October 19, 2025 01:30 PM (viF8m)

136 43 There's a notable schism underway in the Anglican communion, led, I believe, by the conservative clergy of Africa who have quite obviously had enough of the toxic progressivism of the Church of England and the long line of cloth-headed men (and women) of the cloth who have frittered away the church's authority in pursuit of increasingly insane, secular, left-wing obsessions.
Posted by: Paco at October 19, 2025 12:44 PM (mADJX)

GAFCON. Found their balls and got away from the homo feminist gay-marrying pagans. More of this, please.

Posted by: We don't need another emasculating institution at October 19, 2025 01:30 PM (TbWk/)

137 My mind balks at the idea of the components of the universe spontaneously springing from nothing. But my mind also balks at the idea of an eternal god bringing those components to life. Struggle as I might, I simply can not reconcile the two.
Posted by: Captain Josepha Sabin at October 19, 2025 01:30 PM

Life is amazing too. The processes happening at the molecular level imply a design in the universe to make life work. One change in any of the constants would render life, as we know it, impossible at the level of physics and chemistry. I mean, it could just be chance that we exist to observe the chance but I don't buy it.

Posted by: toby928 at October 19, 2025 01:33 PM (ntcEG)

138 There is no try. There is do or do not.
Posted by: JackStraw at October 19, 2025 01:30 PM

There is iron in JackStraw's words of life for all Morons to see.

Posted by: Obi Juan Sonobi at October 19, 2025 01:34 PM (0sNs1)

139 Wednesday afternoon is good for me.

Posted by: Oddbob at October 19, 2025 12:54 PM (DQZwq)

Booked solid with retards!

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (Flying the American Flag!) at October 19, 2025 01:34 PM (8jXm0)

140 Experience is what you get when you don't get what you want.

Posted by: Ask me how I know at October 19, 2025 01:34 PM (SeSfo)

141 I have become convinced that Christianity needs to be somewhat hostile to Reason, as the Ressurection is absolutely unreasonable and irrational. I think the Reformation got poisoned with Enlightenment which is why protestant churches lose their way every few generations

Posted by: stuart at October 19, 2025 01:34 PM (VTfuF)

142 Somewhat related, I think:

I ran across Ross Douthat, Believe today:

https://nitter.net/douthatnyt

(pinned tweet)

Believe offers a pathway for thinking your way from doubt into belief, from uncertainty about our place in the universe into a confidence that we are here for a reason.

Posted by: m at October 19, 2025 01:35 PM (RuTUS)

143 "Can Religious Morality Be Coherent Without Belief?"

Well, I hope so. I have no real religious beliefs. I believe there may be some kind God, but have no idea what form God may take on or what God can do. But I believe in Christian morality because it just seems to have worked over the millennia. It seems to help people to get along in an imperfect way, of course.

Posted by: Ralph at October 19, 2025 01:35 PM (8WZD4)

144 Near the end of The Great War the rapidly modernizing country of Japan joined in as an ally against Germany. The prize was the Pacific Flyspec Islands.
Japan did try to modernize the Islanders and believed western European ways were better suited for various reasons - Japan actually brought in American Preachers to get the natives religion (Japan's religion was for japanese alone)

Posted by: Itinerant Alley Butcher at October 19, 2025 01:36 PM (/lPRQ)

145 "Make me one with everything."

Posted by: Just the punchline at October 19, 2025 01:36 PM (SeSfo)

146 134

Consider this as well: Your body is made up of entirely different matter from what it was when you were born. It varies by organ, but the average life span of a cell in your body is less than ten years.

Yet "you" have existed throughout that turnover.

We still have no scientific explanation for consciousness.

Posted by: Biff Pocoroba at October 19, 2025 01:36 PM (XvL8K)

147 There is no try. There is do or do not.
Posted by: JackStraw at October 19, 2025 01:30 PM

There is iron in JackStraw's words of life for all Morons to see.

He would not make peace with the bluecoats.

Posted by: Archimedes at October 19, 2025 01:36 PM (Riz8t)

148 135 There is no try. There is do or do not.
Posted by: JackStraw at October 19, 2025 01:30 PM (viF8m)

Dough or doughnut. There is no fry.

Posted by: No learning, development, or transformational stage allowed at October 19, 2025 01:36 PM (TbWk/)

149 Consider this as well: Your body is made up of entirely different matter from what it was when you were born. It varies by organ, but the average life span of a cell in your body is less than ten years.

Yet "you" have existed throughout that turnover.

We still have no scientific explanation for consciousness.
Posted by: Biff Pocoroba at October 19, 2025 01:36 PM (XvL8K)

The Ship of Theseus, but made of meat.

Posted by: Cookout time! at October 19, 2025 01:37 PM (TbWk/)

150 Looks like another beautiful day in Austin, US Grand Prix in 1 1/2 hours

Posted by: Skip at October 19, 2025 01:38 PM (+qU29)

151 So that's why I often say some event decades ago seems a lifetime away, it is

Posted by: Skip at October 19, 2025 01:40 PM (+qU29)

152 Uh oh.

Greta Thunberg Says Israel Put A Noose On Her And Yelled, “This Is Bagel Country!”

-
From the Bee.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Fat, Dumb, and Happy at October 19, 2025 01:40 PM (L/fGl)

153 but made of meat.

The Paolo?

Posted by: Commissar of plenty and festive little hats at October 19, 2025 01:40 PM (aqmZH)

154 >>Consider this as well: Your body is made up of entirely different matter from what it was when you were born.

If you don't mind, it doesn't matter.

Posted by: JackStraw at October 19, 2025 01:40 PM (viF8m)

155 Obligatory

https://youtu.be/T6JFTmQCFHg

Posted by: toby928 at October 19, 2025 01:41 PM (jc0TO)

156 Dennis Prager has a series of books called The Rational Bible, he's done 4/5 first books of the Torah: Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy. He wrote them out of order, Leviticus is the last one, and I hope he can do it. I don't know, given his situation now. They are amazing books that give a perspective on the Bible that is rarely taught now.

Christianity survived this long not because of faith. It survived because there is sound logic behind it. Aquinas defended the existence of God based on reason. I could not believe in God if I had to go by faith alone. I tried and it did not work. I'm not saying one needs to abandon faith, and I know most everyone these days gets by on only that. Just saying I cannot. Prager said he could not, either, and he was the first one I ever encountered who admitted that. Teaching the reason behind God is how religion in the West was presented for centuries until the "enlightened" folk came along.

Aquinas and Prager changed my life forever on how to *think* about God, good to see someone else making the case.

Posted by: HEB butter tortillas at October 19, 2025 01:43 PM (G812N)

157 Let there be light! - Absolute ignorant superstitious fairy tale!

Big bang - Now, that's science!

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Fat, Dumb, and Happy at October 19, 2025 01:44 PM (L/fGl)

158 135 There is no try. There is do or do not.
Posted by: JackStraw at October 19, 2025 01:30 PM (viF8m)

Dough or doughnut. There is no fry

Posted by: No learning, development, or transformational stage allowed at October 19, 2025 01:36 PM (TbWk/)
-

Do or do knot. There is no tie.

Posted by: Biden's Dog sniffs a whole lotta malarkey, at October 19, 2025 01:45 PM (4tvN6)

159 Uh oh.

Greta Thunberg Says Israel Put A Noose On Her And Yelled, “This Is Bagel Country!”

-
From the Bee.
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wr

🤣🤣🤣🤣

Posted by: runner at October 19, 2025 01:45 PM (g47mK)

160 >>>What these idiots cannot comprehend is that there are on order of 50 million illegal aliens in the country; a significant percentage are wanted for crimes far worse than jumping the border; ...
...

Posted by: Itinerant Alley Butcher
-----------------

They understand, they are fellow travelers. They are just crooks of a different style.

Posted by: Braenyard - some Absent Friends are more equal than others _ at October 19, 2025 01:46 PM (OfsDL)

161 Moo or Moo not. There is no kine.

Posted by: runner at October 19, 2025 01:46 PM (g47mK)

162 My guess is about half the Christian church goers do not necessarily/deeply believe in the resurrection or afterlife. But if they abide by the "social fabric" of their church, that is certainly better than being against religion (as much of the left is hateful to the religious).

Posted by: illiniwek at October 19, 2025 01:46 PM (vbXSk)

163 143 -- I'm pretty much with you, Ralph. I was brought up in a combination of Methodist and Baptist with a huge helping of "WE do not do, say, or think such things." I don't pray or go to church, but I try to do things the way I was taught as a child.

Posted by: Captain Josepha Sabin at October 19, 2025 01:46 PM (DK5Sh)

164 Consider the immortality of gold. It does not grow. It cannot be formed using other elements. It has existed before earth was formed. It will exist after the earth is destroyed. It does not rot, oxidize or tarnish.

it could be a god. Goldfingaah. Bwah bwaah bwaaah.

Posted by: Field Marshal Zhukov, now, where does a war hero get some lubrication around here? at October 19, 2025 01:48 PM (wBaIH)

165 It's hard to express how painful it is to watch the Jets.

They aren't just horrible, they are boring.

Posted by: JackStraw at October 19, 2025 01:48 PM (viF8m)

166 Back home 😊♥️

Posted by: Teresa in Fort Worth, Texas - Ace of Spades Ladies Brigade, plucky comic relief at October 19, 2025 01:51 PM (SRRAx)

167 Consider this as well: Your body is made up of entirely different matter from what it was when you were born. It varies by organ, but the average life span of a cell in your body is less than ten years.

Yet "you" have existed throughout that turnover.

We still have no scientific explanation for consciousness.
Posted by: Biff Pocoroba at October 19, 2025 01:36 PM (XvL8K)

I don't get the connection here. Is this an argument for the soul?

If so, it's pretty weak, because as biological organisms, we eat and we grow and are sustained.

It would be just...well, impossible to live life as a human or anything else, if every time we ate a cheeseburger, we lost all consciousness and knowledge of who we are. Same for every time we popped a squat. Or peeled from a sunburn.

Even a flatworm, which certainly has no soul, retains it's learning after eating and excreting.

Life does not take place isolated from the circumstances of being alive.

Posted by: naturalfake at October 19, 2025 01:54 PM (iJfKG)

168 I suspect I may have been introduced to paleontology at too young an age. I remember arguing with a very nice Baptist Vacation Bible School teacher because what she was saying did not leave room for dinosaurs.

Posted by: Captain Josepha Sabin at October 19, 2025 01:55 PM (DK5Sh)

169 Life does not take place isolated from the circumstances of being alive.
Posted by: naturalfake
_________

Well, that's whole question now, isn't it?

Descartes was making the same point about a mind/body distinction.

Posted by: Biff Pocoroba at October 19, 2025 01:58 PM (XvL8K)

170

"And on a personal note I'm not a believer because I'm afraid of punishment. I'm a believer because of love and not wanting to disappoint the one I love."

Very nice. Thanks

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at October 19, 2025 01:59 PM (PFs9e)

171 Consider the immortality of gold. It does not grow. It cannot be formed using other elements.

*cough*

Posted by: The debris from neutron stars at October 19, 2025 02:00 PM (Riz8t)

172 168 I suspect I may have been introduced to paleontology at too young an age. I remember arguing with a very nice Baptist Vacation Bible School teacher because what she was saying did not leave room for dinosaurs.
Posted by: Captain Josepha Sabin at October 19, 2025 01:55 PM (DK5Sh
Dinosaurs take up a huge amount of room, to be fair. So did the swamps. That’s why GOD compressed them down to coal and oil. So I could drive a 5.0 F150.

Posted by: Eromero at October 19, 2025 02:00 PM (LHPAg)

173 Lenin, Stalin, and Mao didn't think they were doing good. They were using the greed of the poor to take power. It's all about power.

Posted by: no one of any consequence at October 19, 2025 02:01 PM (ZmEVT)

174 No judgement here. Just love.

Posted by: no one of any consequence at October 19, 2025 02:01 PM (ZmEVT)

175 "arguing with a very nice Baptist Vacation Bible School teacher because what she was saying did not leave room for dinosaurs." Posted by: Captain Josepha Sabin

imo the Genesis creation story is mostly allegory, but as I understand it, Adam and Eve were the start of the second heaven and earth. The first was before Lucifer (the original bright and morning star) fell. So lots of time for dinosaurs and the rest before that.

The third heaven and earth complete the process. "Paradise" is on earth after all the judgement stuff.

Posted by: illiniwek at October 19, 2025 02:04 PM (vbXSk)

176 Nood.

Posted by: no one of any consequence at October 19, 2025 02:05 PM (ZmEVT)

177 By the way, astute as always, CBD.

Posted by: Eromero at October 19, 2025 02:07 PM (LHPAg)

178 Jesus is the new Adam and Mary is the new Eve and the ark of the new Covenant. Neither ever sinned.

Posted by: no one of any consequence at October 19, 2025 02:07 PM (ZmEVT)

179 I am pretty sure that gold can be formed using fission.

Posted by: no one of any consequence at October 19, 2025 02:08 PM (ZmEVT)

180 The very first amoeba that ever lived is alive today.

Posted by: toby928 at October 19, 2025 02:08 PM (jc0TO)

181 Or was it fusion?

Posted by: no one of any consequence at October 19, 2025 02:08 PM (ZmEVT)

182 Moral truth cannot exist without believing in God, or at least I can't see how. If morality is just another belief system, an opinion equal to others, then it's almost meaningless.
Posted by: Huck Follywood at October 19, 2025 12:08 PM (+5evm)
==
This is true. Unequivocally so. I appreciate the argument brought forth by our fellow travelers who do not believe, and do not see the value in belief, however it is manifest in someone, via reason or emotion, in faith and church, because they are still good people. Funny our priest's homily happened to be on this exact topic. He's always very kind, but he said you cannot accept I'm a good person as a rationale for not believing in God.

And I'm not arguing they aren't good people. But man is susceptible to fall, to embrace evil, and to rationalize little slips that over time become bigger ones. I am not suggesting believers are not without this same propensity for evil. All humans can be. Society cannot survive without society in general understanding this and being underpinned by this understanding. Is that how we got to rationalizing it was OK to sterilize young children so as to change what God made? Because we thought we did? Yes.

Posted by: Black JEM at October 19, 2025 02:10 PM (VY+bQ)

183 I've never known the original source of this sentiment, nor do I recall the precise wording, but this idea has become foundational to my thoughts on God, and it relates to several previous comments here:

To ascribe the complexity of nature solely to evolution is akin to concluding Mt. Rushmore is solely the result of erosion.

Posted by: Matthew Kant Cipher at October 19, 2025 02:10 PM (kOluj)

184 183 I've never known the original source of this sentiment, nor do I recall the precise wording, but this idea has become foundational to my thoughts on God, and it relates to several previous comments here:

To ascribe the complexity of nature solely to evolution is akin to concluding Mt. Rushmore is solely the result of erosion.
Posted by: Matthew Kant Cipher at October 19, 2025 02:10 PM (kOluj)

That seems thoughtful.

Posted by: m at October 19, 2025 02:39 PM (RuTUS)

185 Martin John Rees, the late British cosmologist and astrophysicist, considerd six “cosmic numbers” determined the way the universe is today. According to Rees, these numbers govern the shape, size and texture of the universe and would have been defined during the big bang. His astonishing conclusion, based on the scientific evidence available, is that these six numbers appear to be unerringly tuned for the emergence of life. That is to say, if any one of them were much different, we simply could not exist. Charles Murray made his turn to religion after pondering this.

Posted by: Jerry Carroll at October 19, 2025 03:01 PM (RRQTN)

186 "But my mind also balks at the idea of an eternal (G-d) bringing those components to life."

David Wood had the same thoughts. Me too.

https://tinyurl.com/yfk45xmb

Posted by: ju at October 19, 2025 06:34 PM (EgpoY)

187 How often have I heard people tell me, "I'm not religious, but I'm spiritual"! It seems that Murray has the opposite take: He's not spiritual, but he is religious.

Posted by: Nemo at October 19, 2025 07:25 PM (4RPgu)

188 Jim Chimirie @JChimirie66677

A Jewish lawyer has been arrested for wearing a Star of David on a London street. Not for assault. Not for provocation. For wearing a 2cm symbol of his faith – because an officer decided it might "antagonise" pro-Palestine protesters. The man was handcuffed, held for ten hours, questioned about his "political beliefs," and told that his necklace could offend.

There it is: the quiet death of equal citizenship. The symbol that once marked Jews for persecution in Europe now marks them for arrest in England.

The police call it "keeping the peace." In truth, it's cowardice turned into policy. It's what happens when the state becomes more afraid of offending the offender than protecting the victim. "Antagonising" has become a crime. Translation: if a mob hates you enough, you lose your rights.

Full X post: https://bit.ly/4hlDmhN

Posted by: Clyde Shelton at October 19, 2025 07:51 PM (P5BPp)

189 A different angle on the topic that I was pondering recently is whether the ideas of individual primacy and personal rights arise out of any religion or culture other than Christianity. So far I have not encountered a good argument for any other source. This is of interest in that it raises critical questions of secular approaches to those principles, but also because Christianity being unique among world religions requires asking why.

Posted by: Cortillaen at October 19, 2025 07:57 PM (6kADi)

190 I think the intellectual approach is a dead end. Because by it's nature, Intellectualism is rational and oriented in factual truth. God is not going to give you facts or proof, He demands that you follow him based on Faith alone.

Posted by: Fen at October 20, 2025 01:12 AM (5ENx5)

191 Think of it like this - what kind of relationship would you like to have with your spouse?

1) one where you believe they are faithful?

2) one where you need to ask if they are faithful?

3) one where you need proof they are faithful?

Posted by: Fen at October 20, 2025 01:21 AM (5ENx5)

Processing 0.03, elapsed 0.0361 seconds.
14 queries taking 0.0101 seconds, 199 records returned.
Page size 111 kb.
Powered by Minx 0.8 beta.