Reading Thread 10/12/2025

Howdy Readers! Welcome to the Reading Thread, your Sunday morning source for the insightful, lively and spirited discussion of books 'n stuff. I'm filling in for a while as this space re-invents itself under new management so please set your near-term expectations accordingly low.

What do we have this week? Why, it's none other than Romeo and Juliet, written by William Shakespeare and between 1591 and 1595. As I mentioned in the other editions of the Reading Thread you may not always get such fabulous selections as this.

Anyhoo, feel free to discuss reading and books in general and share your thoughts on this week's selection if you're so inclined.

I know you're just as excited as I am, so just jump below the fold to get started!

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click for download options

New procedure for clicking - rather than opening a PDF, a link now takes you to the Gutenberg Project web page for the book with multiple download options.

Also, for those interested, here is the Romeo and Juliet Wiki page link.

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Special Bonus Topic For Today's Discussion

Do you like stories written between 1591 and 1595?

***

So that's it for now, guys and gals. Come to class next week prepared to discuss reading 'n stuff, and remember, Reading is FUNdamental!

Posted by: Weasel at 09:00 AM

Comments

(Jump to bottom of comments)

1 First!!!... with a Tolkien reference.

ALH and Horde member, SPinRH, has penned a "Lighthearted (but lengthy) essay" he would like some opinions on.

The link is to A Literary Horde, but you don't have to be a member to read it. You'll find a pdf file on his post. Only ALH members can comment on the site, but if you want, send e-mails to the address to ALH on Ace's sidebar, and I'll post it there for him to read.

Posted by: OrangeEnt at October 12, 2025 09:01 AM (uQesX)

2 Here's the link:

https://tinyurl.com/yu76rz3z

Posted by: OrangeEnt at October 12, 2025 09:01 AM (uQesX)

3 Tolle Lege
Slowly getting through Rick Atkinson's The British are Coming 1775-77, up to Battle of Brooklyn Hights Aug27 1776, a shellac by the British army and navy

Posted by: Skip at October 12, 2025 09:03 AM (+qU29)

4 Billy Shakes!

I read the Cold War version, the story takes place in 1962 Cuber. Romanov and Yuliette.

Posted by: OrangeEnt at October 12, 2025 09:04 AM (uQesX)

5 Good Sunday morning, horde!

Lots to do today, prepping for the trip to TX this week.

This is my last hour or so of relaxation before I get busy.

Cannot wait to see many of you at the MoMe!

Posted by: Dash my lace wigs! at October 12, 2025 09:04 AM (h7ZuX)

6 I'm still churning through "The Rules of the Game." I like the background information on the key players, but can we get back to the part where all the boats go splodey?

Posted by: PabloD at October 12, 2025 09:06 AM (mSUOn)

7 Ive been going through a whole bunch of books on libby a forsyth or two follets including his debut eye of the needle which i liked he has become too verbose since as well as extracts from pynchon and delillo which majes me wonder why i bothered the names isnt terrible

Posted by: Miguel cervantes at October 12, 2025 09:07 AM (bXbFr)

8 Continuing my reading binge. Got a collection of Norman Spinrad short stories, _The Last Hurrah of the Golden Horde_.

They are . . .

. . . very much of their time, that time being the late Sixties and early Seventies. Very much like the stories in Ellison's original Dangerous Visions anthology -- i fact, I'm pretty sure one of the Spinrad stories from this collection was in DV.

Well-written, good ideas, and mostly free of ham-fistedness. Some still work as science fiction, others are best experienced as historical documents of the years they were written.

Posted by: Trimegistus at October 12, 2025 09:07 AM (78a2H)

9 Yay Book Thread!

I'm reading Josephus' The Jewish War. I started it some years ago and bailed, not sure why. I'm really enjoying it and it takes me back to my youth reading Tacitus and Livy while wargaming everything with West End's Imperivm Romanvm II (which I still own - desert island game, that).

Anyway, one takeaway is that the bit in "The Life of Brian" where the Jews talk about all the good things the Romans did is in fact true. They didn't barge in, either, but were invited by all the various factions within the area, both Jews and Jewish-adjacent (Samaritans, Idumeans). Herod the Great was a vicious gangster, terror to his family, and he had 9 wives and even more concubines, but he was a buddy of Augustus, but a huge and prosperous realm and kept the peace (albeit with a sharp sword). Upshot: nothing changes.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at October 12, 2025 09:07 AM (ZOv7s)

10 Good Morning!

Let's smile & be happy & strike fear into the heart of killjoy leftists everywhere.

Posted by: NaCly Dog at October 12, 2025 09:07 AM (u82oZ)

11 I read Wind And Truth by Brandon Sanderson. This is the fifth book in The Stormlight Archive series and completes the first story arc. The story will continue in five more books to come. As I begin my eighth decade next month, odds are long that I will be around to read book ten, but I will continue with the series as the books are published.

Posted by: Zoltan at October 12, 2025 09:08 AM (VOrDg)

12 I haven't gotten to the actual war, yet. Still doing the backstory, of which there is a lot. So many Herods running around that they have to use their nicknames to keep it straight.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at October 12, 2025 09:08 AM (ZOv7s)

13 Morning, Weasel.

Howdy, Horde.

Read Nabokov's The Eye, and probably wasn't being attentive enough because I finished it wondering what the bleep I'd just read. Will revisit some time.

Glory is next on the Nabokov list, but I think a Maigret or two before I open that one.

Posted by: Just Some Guy at October 12, 2025 09:08 AM (q3u5l)

14 "Romeo and Ivliet"? Must have been the variation with new British immigrants.

Morning, Book People! This week I finished a Joe R. Lansdale "Hap & Leonard" novel, Devil Red. Turned out I had read it before but didn't realize until I was halfway through. I have another on my TBR pile, Bad Chili.

Currently working my way through No Middle Name, a Lee Child collection of stories about Jack Reacher, with glimpses of his past. So far the standout story has been "High Heat," in which Reacher, age 16 going on 17, visits New York in 1977 -- on the night of the blackout that July.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at October 12, 2025 09:09 AM (omVj0)

15 two follets including his debut eye of the needle which i liked he has become too verbose since as well as extracts from pynchon and delillo
Posted by: Miguel cervantes at October 12, 2025 09:07 AM (bXbFr)

Follett has written about a million books, and I haven't read a single one.

Posted by: Dash my lace wigs! at October 12, 2025 09:09 AM (h7ZuX)

16 I’m reading Genesis. It’s great for a person.

Posted by: Eromero at October 12, 2025 09:09 AM (jgmnb)

17 Booken Morgen Horden

Posted by: vmom deport deport deport at October 12, 2025 09:09 AM (eZ5tL)

18 Writing news: yes, it happened! I've been feeling the urge to write growing stronger and last night I opened up one of my old documents and wrote about 1,000 words of criticism and future plot points. Felt good to be in a creative mood.

I'm tired of nonfiction. Wears one out.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at October 12, 2025 09:10 AM (ZOv7s)

19 Money Dick— —Finnegans Wake
Comprehensible— —-Not comprehensible

Posted by: Accomack at October 12, 2025 09:10 AM (4qMiv)

20 I'll say it
Shakespeare is overrated.

Posted by: vmom deport deport deport at October 12, 2025 09:11 AM (znREB)

21 Modern accounts say herod was not all that bad oh bothwe

Posted by: Miguel cervantes at October 12, 2025 09:11 AM (bXbFr)

22 Romeo was Italian and Ivlet was Bulgarian

Posted by: Skip at October 12, 2025 09:12 AM (+qU29)

23 Anything to hit the jews with

Posted by: Miguel cervantes at October 12, 2025 09:12 AM (bXbFr)

24 Also on my TBR pile is another collection of Lee Child short stories, not all (if any) about Reacher; and a collection of three novels by "Mary Westmacott," Agatha Christie's pen name for her dramatic non-mystery novels.

I've never read any of them. In my teen years, paperback editions of the MW novels (captioned "Agatha Christie, Writing As Mary Westmacott") all featured covers that made me think they were standard Gothic romance stories. Recently, though, I read an analysis of her other work, the plays and MW stories, and it made me curious about the latter.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at October 12, 2025 09:13 AM (omVj0)

25 Also read some old Nick Carter detective stories from the 1890s. He was a Sherlock Holmes knockoff in the "dime novel" era, but the earliest stories work pretty well as procedural mystery stories. Nick relies a lot on disguise and following people around. It's interesting to see the glimpses of New York and environs in the 1890s -- even the most urbanized part of the US was still very rural in some ways.

As an early example of an "IP" character, Nick went through a dizzying array of changes as the 20th century passed. First he was a Sherlock Holmes clone, then he was a dime-novel thriller hero, then a two-fisted pulp hero, and finally a James Bond clone in some "men's adventure" novels in the Sixties.

I wonder if he's in the public domain? Might be time for a revival!

Posted by: Trimegistus at October 12, 2025 09:14 AM (78a2H)

26 Zora neale houston for instance

Posted by: Miguel cervantes at October 12, 2025 09:15 AM (bXbFr)

27 I'm stiil reading the stories in "Game Without Rules" by Michael Gilbert. I had never heard of him; the book was a gift. When I saw the name on the cover, I thought of Michael T. Gilbert, an independent comics artist of the '80s who wrote and drew the comic Mr. Monster.

I'm posting from Wichita, where my daughter is running in a half-marathon. I won't be able to read the Book Thread until after I get home this evening. I hope everyone is enjoying his or her book.

Posted by: Weak Geek at October 12, 2025 09:15 AM (cm9Ry)

28 Good morning fellow Reading/Book Threadists. I hope everyone had a great week of reading.

Posted by: JTB at October 12, 2025 09:16 AM (yTvNw)

29 Haven't read Shakespeare in quite some time. The comedies never did it for me at all and never got around to most of the histories. The tragedies were fun.

First taste of Shakespeare was when I was around 12 -- there was a book club printing of Lamb's Tales from Shakespeare in the house that I'd never gotten around to. Macbeth was the one that really did it for me -- probably the witches and Banquo's ghost because I was already into horror movies.

Posted by: Just Some Guy at October 12, 2025 09:16 AM (q3u5l)

30 I also read The Last Orphan by Gregg Hurwitz. This is the eighth book in the Orphan X series. Evan Smoak, Orphan X, is in trouble with the President again. In order to reinstate his pardon, he must carry out a mission for her; but things become complicated and the more nuanced Orphan X must decide to finish the mission, or not.

Posted by: Zoltan at October 12, 2025 09:16 AM (VOrDg)

31 Glory is good. Nabokov’s Berlin era books are not much except for Glory and Invitation

Posted by: Accomack at October 12, 2025 09:16 AM (wmiYU)

32 Cervantes: it's always intriguing, trying to figure out what your terse comments are referring to.

What about Zora Neale Hurston?

Posted by: Trimegistus at October 12, 2025 09:17 AM (78a2H)

33 two follets including his debut eye of the needle which i liked he has become too verbose since as well as extracts from pynchon and delillo
Posted by: Miguel cervantes at October 12, 2025 09:07 AM (bXbFr)

Follett has written about a million books, and I haven't read a single one.
Posted by: Dash my lace wigs! at October 12, 2025

***
Needle is worth your time. It's a classic example of how an author can make a villain a fascinating lead character. Die Nadel, the German spy in the story, is more than competent, and you find yourself almost wanting him to be successful against the Allies.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at October 12, 2025 09:17 AM (omVj0)

34 Modern accounts say herod was not all that bad oh bothwe
Posted by: Miguel cervantes at October 12, 2025 09:11 AM (bXbFr)
---
One issue is that it's easy to mix them up because there were so many. Also, the family tree was a mess, and I'm not sure how it was kosher to marry your daughter to your brother.

This history is useful in filling the gap between Maccabees and the New Testament and understanding why Judea was in such a constant ferment. Passover was basically Riot Season, and what better way to observe it than a massacre in and around the City?

Interesting that Quintilius Varus (of Teutoburger Wald infamy) cut his teeth in the East, and one of his exploits was storming Jerusalem with two legions because his third was effectively under siege. The result was yet another Passover Massacre. Pentecost Massacres were also a thing.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at October 12, 2025 09:17 AM (ZOv7s)

35 19 Money Dick— —Finnegans Wake
Comprehensible— —-Not comprehensible
Posted by: Accomack at October 12, 2025 09:10 AM (4qMiv)

Speaking of money dick...

Last week's vintage thrift store find was Midnight Cowboy, by James Leo Herlihy.

This was truly just ok. Main character Joe Buck has a terrible childhood, stumbles through life with no direction, decides his good looks will make him a rich NYC hustler. He is just not smart enough to survive in NYC, frankly, but he does form a friendship with a native who scams him at first, then helps him navigate the streets. By gay hustling. Thing is, Joe Buck thought he could go to NYC and be Paolo for the ladies, but that didn't work out.

It was underwhelming, but now I know.

Posted by: Dash my lace wigs! at October 12, 2025 09:17 AM (h7ZuX)

36 I'll say it
Shakespeare is overrated.
Posted by: vmom deport deport deport at October 12, 2025 09:11 AM (znREB)
---
My high school did a great job of making Shakespeare accessible and fun, and if you were in one of the advanced classes, you got to take the trip to Stratford, Ontario and watch a play there. (This was when the border was more of a toll booth than anything else.)

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at October 12, 2025 09:20 AM (ZOv7s)

37 27 I'm stiil reading the stories in "Game Without Rules" by Michael Gilbert. I had never heard of him; the book was a gift.
Posted by: Weak Geek at October 12, 2025 09:15 AM (cm9Ry)

Sounds right up my alley, so I reserved at the library after you mentioned it last week. I picked it up yesterday, look forward to reading it.

Posted by: Dash my lace wigs! at October 12, 2025 09:20 AM (h7ZuX)

38 While the entire blame for the fall of the Romanovs cannot be laid at the feet of a single person, one figure is to this day reviled for the collapse of their dynasty. In Rasputin, Edvard Radzinsky has compiled previously unseen letters and telegrams to present the most detailed look at the demented holy man who had undue influence on the royal family, and turned the public against them.

Rasputin did have a hypnotic effect on people, and some believe that this ability gave him the power to calm the Tsar's son whenever he was sick. To the Tsarina, this seemed to be a cure, and she brought him close to the family. Of course, all of the noblewomen were also entranced with him, which gave him license to engage his sexual appetites. It seemed that everyone knew what the royals did not, that this man was undermining the dynasty.

Eventually, a group of noblemen decided to end the threat. They gave him poisoned cakes, potent enough for a horse, but it had no effect. They then shot him several times, tied him up, and threw him into a half frozen river where he finally drowned. He had threatened that the dynasty would not long outlive him, and history proved him right.

Posted by: Thomas Paine at October 12, 2025 09:20 AM (0U5gm)

39 Thanks for the Reading Thread, Weasel!

Had a terrific Shakespeare teacher in high school. Really learned to appreciate the old bard, even if he does talk funny. And the movie, "Romeo and Juliet" came out about that time, so it was a nice reinforcement of classroom lessons.

Posted by: Legally Sufficient at October 12, 2025 09:20 AM (kB9dk)

40 Not sure I've ever read, or seen all of the film of, Midnight Cowboy. Not sure I have any interest in either.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at October 12, 2025 09:21 AM (omVj0)

41 Needle is worth your time. It's a classic example of how an author can make a villain a fascinating lead character. Die Nadel, the German spy in the story, is more than competent, and you find yourself almost wanting him to be successful against the Allies.
Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at October 12, 2025 09:17 AM (omVj0)
---
Another great Donald Sutherland role. The guy had range.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at October 12, 2025 09:21 AM (ZOv7s)

42 Reading Monsarrat’s “The Master Mariner - Book One”. Tried forty odd years ago when I was a callow youth. Now I’m old enough to take my time to enjoy it. Worth the wait.

Posted by: Buzzy Krumhunger at October 12, 2025 09:22 AM (sgN76)

43 I'll say it
Shakespeare is overrated.
Posted by: vmom deport deport deport at October 12, 2025 09:11 AM (znREB)

Wha... wha... wha??!!

How could you insult either Francis Bacon, Edward de Vere, 17th Earl of Oxford, or Christopher Marlowe like that?!

Posted by: OrangeEnt at October 12, 2025 09:23 AM (uQesX)

44 That movie never appealed to me. Neither would the books

Gravitys rainbow seems to have pynchons rather verbose take at a catch 22 type war tale

Posted by: Miguel cervantes at October 12, 2025 09:23 AM (bXbFr)

45 Siri you miserable bi&h

Posted by: Accomack at October 12, 2025 09:24 AM (FqNtp)

46 For my taste the best thing written by anyone and anywhere between 1591 and 1595 was A Midsummer Night's Dream. Nothing else comes close. Comedy of Errors and Richard III are in the ball park. Romeo and Juliet never appealed as much.

Posted by: JTB at October 12, 2025 09:24 AM (yTvNw)

47 Not sure I've ever read, or seen all of the film of, Midnight Cowboy. Not sure I have any interest in either.
Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at October 12, 2025 09:21 AM (omVj0)
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There's a famous scene with Dustin Hoffman hitting a car, that was apparently ad-libbed and my understanding is that this is the best part of the film. Zero interest in the subject matter.

A lot of 1970s movies were the result of Hollywood degenerates celebrating the collapse of the Hayes Code.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at October 12, 2025 09:24 AM (ZOv7s)

48 Read Midnight Cowboy eons ago and saw the movie when it first came out. Have never revisited either one.

But John Barry did a nice score for the movie, and I always enjoy hearing Nilsson's "Everybody's Talkin'" YMMV.

Posted by: Just Some Guy at October 12, 2025 09:24 AM (q3u5l)

49 Finished The Great Terror: Stalin's Purge of the Thirties by British historian Robert Conquest.

A summary of this should taught in every middle schooling America.

I note that very destructive leaders are not native to the country they led. Hitler, Stalin, and Obama are examples. Only the US system prevented further damage from Obama / Biden.

Posted by: NaCly Dog at October 12, 2025 09:25 AM (u82oZ)

50 Do you like stories written between 1591 and 1595?

I had to check the date when it was published, which was 1590, so not strictly of the 1591-1595 era, but-

The Faerie Queene by Edmund Spenser

is actually pretty great.

I read it long ago and far away when I thought I would wade into great English poetry for while.

Well-worth reading if that appeals to you buuuut you must reset your brain as it's a leisurely read of Ye Olde School.

Posted by: naturalfake at October 12, 2025 09:26 AM (iJfKG)

51 Good morning
Rainy day here so hope to get some reading done. All of a sudden, I have a wealth of reading material. Started J.D. Robb's new one Framed in Death and Ann Cleeves first Shetland mystery Raven Black. Wildly different styles but enjoying both. Also bought Ann Cleeland's newest Murder in all Patience.
Have some plane trips coming up so should be able to get through some backlog.🤠

Posted by: Sharon(willow's apprentice) at October 12, 2025 09:26 AM (t/2Uw)

52 I don't think Will S. is overrated -- but the poor guy has been criminally over-analyzed.

He was just writing plays, people! He was (and undoubtedly thought of himself as) the equivalent of a staff screenwriter for The Love Boat. Get the butts in seats, get the eyeballs, maybe get a nobleman willing to pay for a private performance. He did that job and he did it extremely well.

Yet for four hundred years now the poor guy's been shoehorned into every new critical fad, every new literary cult, every new ideology. Just watch (don't read) the plays!

Posted by: Trimegistus at October 12, 2025 09:26 AM (78a2H)

53 Modern accounts say herod was not all that bad oh bothwe
Posted by: Miguel cervantes at October 12, 2025 09:11 AM (bXbFr)

I'm sure he did nothing to lose your head over it.

Posted by: OrangeEnt at October 12, 2025 09:26 AM (uQesX)

54 >>>I read the Cold War version, the story takes place in 1962 Cuber. Romanov and Yuliette.

I just finished the urban U.S. version, the story takes place in present day Baltimore. D'Romeo and the Jailbait Ho.

Posted by: one hour sober at October 12, 2025 09:27 AM (Y1sOo)

55 Finished Franks Downfall, the end of Japanese Imperialism.
Highly recommended, but dry as dry can be. Read with a large cool drink handy.

Posted by: From about That Time at October 12, 2025 09:27 AM (n4GiU)

56 I was not impressed by Gravity's Rainbow. Too much of Pynchon's humor seems geared to MAD Magazine. I think I wrote a diatribe about the book for the Book Thread when I read it a few years ago. _The Crying of Lot 49_ is considerably better.

Posted by: Trimegistus at October 12, 2025 09:29 AM (78a2H)

57 Some of Shakespeare's plays are easier to read (without explanatory notes, I mean) than others. Romeo and Juliet, Othello, Richard III, Julius Caesar, and my favorite, Macbeth, are in that group. In others, the language is not as clear; Henry VIII, for instance, was confusing even though I know about him, the history of his family, and his times.

The comedies are tough, since his wordplay relies on words that have changed meaning since the 1590s-early 1600s. They work better when you watch them as plays or films. Kenneth Branagh's Much Ado About Nothing movie was fun.

Whether he's "overrated" or not, he helped to codify the English language and move it from Middle English to Modern, and he coined a slew of words and phrases we still use today.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at October 12, 2025 09:29 AM (omVj0)

58 Morning, all. 53 cloudy, dreary degrees here at Stately Poppins Manor. A good day to huddle in bed, but I must get some writing done.

Been reading Joseph Sobran's Alias Shakespeare, which puts forth the Oxford claim. I'm not smart enough to follow the entire argument, but a superficial reading makes the case seem solid.

Sobran has two major props for his theory -
1. Many of the people, both at court and in the theater, who praise de Vere's poetry and prose, never mention Shakespeare, and no evidence exists to show that Oxford and Shakespeare so much as even knew each other.

2. The dating of the plays is completely wrong; de Vere died in 1604, and there is evidence to show that nearly every one of the plays was written before that date.

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing (aka Eloquent Depression) at October 12, 2025 09:30 AM (ufSfZ)

59 Just watch (don't read) the plays!
Posted by: Trimegistus

Exactly.

Posted by: vmom deport deport deport at October 12, 2025 09:31 AM (tcsrY)

60 I note that very destructive leaders are not native to the country they led. Hitler, Stalin, and Obama are examples. Only the US system prevented further damage from Obama / Biden.
Posted by: NaCly Dog at October 12, 2025 09:25 AM (u82oZ)
---
Meh, the line between German and Austrian is pretty weak, especially when you consider how new "Germany" was as a state. Remember that Bavaria still had its own army in WW I, and Hitler served in it rather than the Prussian-dominated portion.

This is yet another data point in how breaking up the Dual Monarchy was a world-historical mistake. Austria-Hungary was a necessary counterbalance to Prussian Germany. Without the resources of Hungary and Bohemia (both having long-standing ties which exist today), there is a strong pull to create a German super-state.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at October 12, 2025 09:31 AM (ZOv7s)

61 Finally got around to watching Joel Coen's movie of Macbeth last night, and liked it.

Not a lot of options for seeing plays in this neck of the woods, and not sure how many productions of Shakespeare are out there these days anyway. But there are the movies.

Weirdest one I can remember is one I caught on a late show when I was in high school: Joe Macbeth, which put the Macbeth story into a mob-land setting.

Posted by: Just Some Guy at October 12, 2025 09:31 AM (q3u5l)

62 which Reacher, age 16 going on 17, visits New York in 1977 -- on the night of the blackout that July.
Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at October 12, 2025

Wasn't the Great NYC blackout 1967?

Posted by: From about That Time at October 12, 2025 09:31 AM (n4GiU)

63 I'll say it
Shakespeare is overrated.
Posted by: vmom deport deport deport at October 12, 2025 09:11 AM (znREB)

Agree.

Posted by: Dr. Pork Chops & Bacons at October 12, 2025 09:32 AM (g8Ew8)

64 Finished The Great Terror: Stalin's Purge of the Thirties by British historian Robert Conquest.

Posted by: NaCly Dog
_______

I couldn't finish it, which is maybe a sad illustration of a million deaths being a statistic. Same with Gulag Archipelago.

Posted by: Biff Pocoroba at October 12, 2025 09:32 AM (XvL8K)

65 Close to 1595: Don Quixote
From Wiki: "1605 novel by Miguel de Cervantes
Don Quixote, the full title being The Ingenious Gentleman Don Quixote of La Mancha, is a Spanish novel by Miguel de Cervantes. Originally published in two parts in 1605 and 1615, the novel is considered a founding work of Western literature and the first modern novel. The novel has been labelled by many well-known authors as the "best novel of all time" and the "best and most central work in world literature". "

Posted by: Idaho Spudboy at October 12, 2025 09:32 AM (Ai3df)

66 Who was better in Shakespeare's time if he was over rated?

Posted by: Skip at October 12, 2025 09:33 AM (+qU29)

67 The 1930s-dress movie version of Richard III (1995) w/ Ian McKellen in the title role is utterly fascinating.

The idea of James Cagney starring in 1935's A Midsummer Night's Dream -- much as I love Cagney -- is hard to encompass. But I've never seen the flick, so I don't know if he makes it work.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at October 12, 2025 09:34 AM (omVj0)

68 I'm sure he did nothing to lose your head over it.
Posted by: OrangeEnt at October 12, 2025 09:26 AM (uQesX)
---
That was a different Herod, one of his descendants.

Herod the Great killed people in all manner of ways, including three of his sons (his primary heirs).

The most dangerous place in Judea was his family tree.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at October 12, 2025 09:34 AM (ZOv7s)

69 Hello fellow bibliophages.

Still reading "The Oceans and the Stars", a terrific book. I don't want to race through it, even if I could.

Posted by: All Hail Eris,, coming to you live from the Roller Disco of Discord! at October 12, 2025 09:35 AM (kpS4V)

70 Stalin was georgian hitler was austrian obama was kenyan (sarc) i noted how forsyth who passed in june did start to get very verbose in cobra for instance

Posted by: Miguel cervantes at October 12, 2025 09:36 AM (bXbFr)

71 I was not impressed by Gravity's Rainbow. Too much of Pynchon's humor seems geared to MAD Magazine. I think I wrote a diatribe about the book for the Book Thread when I read it a few years ago. _The Crying of Lot 49_ is considerably better.
Posted by: Trimegistus at October 12, 2025 09:29 AM (78a2H)

Pynchon likes to use the long established "very high humor/very low humor, high culture/low culture" technique in his books, which I happen to like a lot. And, I used it in my own novel.

A horde favorite who uses that technique with a lighter and non-naughty touch is P G Wodehouse.
It's easiest to see in the interactions of Bertie and Jeeves.

Posted by: naturalfake at October 12, 2025 09:37 AM (iJfKG)

72 Kingsley Amis suggested to Conquest an updated title for a new editions of The Great Terror.
“I Told You So, You F**king Fools?”

Posted by: Buzzy Krumhunger at October 12, 2025 09:37 AM (sgN76)

73 The 1930s-dress movie version of Richard III (1995) w/ Ian McKellen in the title role is utterly fascinating.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at October 12, 2025 09:34 AM (omVj0)
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I'm a sucker for 1930s period pieces and love that version. Having the Woodvilles be Americans was a stroke of genius.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at October 12, 2025 09:37 AM (ZOv7s)

74 Wasn't Dr. Faustus from around that time?

Posted by: Thomas Paine at October 12, 2025 09:37 AM (0U5gm)

75 Shakespeare was popular fiction with an edge repurposed from italian scottish and other sources see corolianus

Posted by: Miguel cervantes at October 12, 2025 09:37 AM (bXbFr)

76 which Reacher, age 16 going on 17, visits New York in 1977 -- on the night of the blackout that July.
Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at October 12, 2025
*
Wasn't the Great NYC blackout 1967?
Posted by: From about That Time at October 12, 2025

***
The first Great Blackout was in 1965, early November. The second was in July of 1977, while the first Chris Reeve Superman was filming there and while Son of Sam was still stalking victims.

Doris Day starred in a comedy about the first one, Where Were You When the Lights Went Out?. There is no comedy about the second one, just that Spike Lee drama Summer of Sam.

The first blackout was not noted for looting. The second was. I leave the reason why as an exercise for the student.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at October 12, 2025 09:38 AM (omVj0)

77 Miguel, are you sending from an old-timey telegraph office? Even they used STOP between sentences.

Posted by: All Hail Eris,, coming to you live from the Roller Disco of Discord! at October 12, 2025 09:38 AM (kpS4V)

78 Richard 3rd might have been a convenient villain for the tudor propagandist see josephine tey and phillippa gregory

Posted by: Miguel cervantes at October 12, 2025 09:40 AM (bXbFr)

79 The 1930s-dress movie version of Richard III (1995) w/ Ian McKellen in the title role is utterly fascinating.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at October 12, 2025 09:34 AM (omVj0)

What is interesting is that the then contemporary view of Richard III was based on propaganda that the Tudors put out to try and legitimize their claim on the throne. Modern research has proven most of that story to be false.

Posted by: Thomas Paine at October 12, 2025 09:41 AM (0U5gm)

80 My reading was episodic this week. A few poems, bits of Shakespeare, and magazine articles. Most of it was "A Dish of Orts" by George MacDonald. It's a collection of his essays on the imagination, Romantic poets, Shakespeare, and literary forms.

Also thumbed through "The Worlds of J. R. R. Tolkien: The Places That Inspired Middle-earth" by John Garth. (Obligatory Tolkien reference.) Using parts of Tolkien's history and references from his letters, Garth presents where Tolkien got the idea for specific places in the Hobbit and LOTR. Of course, there is some speculation but less than I thought there would be. Pleasant reading for a confirmed Tolkien nerd. (Proudly raises my hand.)

Posted by: JTB at October 12, 2025 09:41 AM (yTvNw)

81 Who was better in Shakespeare's time if he was over rated?
Posted by: Skip at October 12, 2025 09:33 AM (+qU29)

He may have been the premiere playwright at the time, but, you know, times change. So does the language (which is his work's main defect).

Posted by: Dr. Pork Chops & Bacons at October 12, 2025 09:41 AM (g8Ew8)

82 My stepson once said he couldn't understand Shakespeare because everybody in his plays talks like Yoda.

Posted by: Toad-0 at October 12, 2025 09:42 AM (3qfWj)

83 9 I'm reading Josephus' The Jewish War. I started it some years ago and bailed, not sure why. I'm really enjoying it and it takes me back to my youth reading Tacitus and Livy while wargaming everything with West End's Imperivm Romanvm II (which I still own - desert island game, that).

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at October 12, 2025 09:07 AM (ZOv7s)

It's not quite a book, but I just started re-listening to The Great Courses lecture series on The Dead Sea Scroll. The current theory is that the scrolls were deposited stored away during the Jewish Revolt, to keep them safe during the fighting. Alas, the people who hid the scrolls likely perished in the revolt, and never came back to retrieve them...

Posted by: Castle Guy at October 12, 2025 09:42 AM (N5RnR)

84 Shakespeare meant to be watched, not read. Even reading it aloud helps. The language is so perfect. Watching a stage performance knowing the actors had to memorize such complex dialog was amazing. But the movies really make them come alive.

Posted by: Sharon(willow's apprentice) at October 12, 2025 09:42 AM (t/2Uw)

85 Richard 3rd might have been a convenient villain for the tudor propagandist see josephine tey and phillippa gregory
Posted by: Miguel cervantes at October 12, 2025 09:40 AM (bXbFr)
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Henry VIII's church now has a gal as the Archbishop of Canterbury who is also a strong supporter of sodomy. Great job, everyone!

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at October 12, 2025 09:42 AM (ZOv7s)

86 I don't think Will S. is overrated -- but the poor guy has been criminally over-analyzed.

Posted by: Trimegistus at October 12, 2025 09:26 AM (78a2H)

Re: my joke reply to vmom about Billy being overrated.

So many people seem to have a personal stake in taking away his authorship and handing to someone of higher social standing. It's usually the bootlickers of middling status who can't get published that are the most vicious. Shakespeare was too low class, too stupid, too uneducated to have written these works. It must have been someone of the ruling class - that they desperately want to be part of.

No, William Shakespeare wrote the plays attributed to him. Did he steal work? Probably. It's being done constantly today, why would anyone think it wasn't done then? It's just envy that would deny Shakespeare his due.

Posted by: OrangeEnt at October 12, 2025 09:42 AM (uQesX)

87 What was the most villanous clan in game of thrones, herod mighr have fit right in there

Posted by: Miguel cervantes at October 12, 2025 09:43 AM (bXbFr)

88 Richard 3rd might have been a convenient villain for the tudor propagandist see josephine tey and phillippa gregory
Posted by: Miguel cervantes at October 12, 2025

***
It's amazing to me how Tey (a historian in her other life) made Daughter of Time comprehensible -- and fascinating -- as a then-modern investigation into Richard, all without having to employ a family tree in the book.

Speaking of which, if you are looking for low-key charm and solid characterization in your British mystery reading, Josephine Tey is the one. I'm especially fond of her last novel, The Singing Sands.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at October 12, 2025 09:43 AM (omVj0)

89 I have finished a wonderful book, "The Biggest Lie in the History of Christianity". It is by Matthew Kelly and is only about 107 pages long. The biggest lie is that Christians are not capable of holy moments. He describes what those are and encourages us in giving ourselves to God..

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at October 12, 2025 09:43 AM (6jy2V)

90
Speaking of Thomas Pynchon...

He has a new novel just out titled,

"Shadow Ticket".

It sounds like he's wading deep into comedy this time.

BONUS! It's short for him at 300 pages.

Probably read it soonish.

Posted by: naturalfake at October 12, 2025 09:43 AM (iJfKG)

91 25 Also read some old Nick Carter detective stories from the 1890s. ....

As an early example of an "IP" character, Nick went through a dizzying array of changes as the 20th century passed. First he was a Sherlock Holmes clone, then he was a dime-novel thriller hero, then a two-fisted pulp hero, and finally a James Bond clone in some "men's adventure" novels in the Sixties.

I wonder if he's in the public domain? Might be time for a revival!
Posted by: Trimegistus at October 12, 2025 09:14 AM (78a2H)

Didn't he join a boy band in the early 2000's? That seems like a very odd direction for a reboot...

Posted by: Castle Guy at October 12, 2025 09:43 AM (N5RnR)

92 Also thumbed through "The Worlds of J. R. R. Tolkien: The Places That Inspired Middle-earth" by John Garth. (Obligatory Tolkien reference.) Using parts of Tolkien's history and references from his letters, Garth presents where Tolkien got the idea for specific places in the Hobbit and LOTR. Of course, there is some speculation but less than I thought there would be. Pleasant reading for a confirmed Tolkien nerd. (Proudly raises my hand.)
Posted by: JTB at October 12, 2025 09:41 AM (yTvNw)
---
Yet another example of Writing What You Know.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at October 12, 2025 09:44 AM (ZOv7s)

93 WW I made an impression on J. R. R. Tolkien.

Posted by: Eromero at October 12, 2025 09:44 AM (jgmnb)

94 Shakespeare meant to be watched, not read. Even reading it aloud helps. The language is so perfect. Watching a stage performance knowing the actors had to memorize such complex dialog was amazing. But the movies really make them come alive.
Posted by: Sharon(willow's apprentice)

See Kenneth Branagh's "Henry V". Wonderful movie.

Posted by: Tuna at October 12, 2025 09:44 AM (lJ0H4)

95 Henry VIII's church now has a gal as the Archbishop of Canterbury who is also a strong supporter of sodomy. Great job, everyone!

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd

They also have allowed graffiti artists to decorate the interior of the cathedral. I would not be surprised if they also sponsor drag shows.

Posted by: Thomas Paine at October 12, 2025 09:45 AM (0U5gm)

96 What is interesting is that the then contemporary view of Richard III was based on propaganda that the Tudors put out to try and legitimize their claim on the throne. Modern research has proven most of that story to be false.
Posted by: Thomas Paine at October 12, 2025

***
So we can look at Will's play as an alternative interpretation of the real history -- fiction, in other words.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at October 12, 2025 09:45 AM (omVj0)

97 My stepson once said he couldn't understand Shakespeare because everybody in his plays talks like Yoda.

Posted by: Toad-0 at October 12, 2025 09:42 AM (3qfWj)
---
Yoda is Welsh. All that is missing is an occasional "Look you" at the end of a sentence.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at October 12, 2025 09:45 AM (ZOv7s)

98 I much prefer to read Shakespeare than to see the work performed.

Posted by: Ordinary American at October 12, 2025 09:46 AM (UseAb)

99 Shakespeare over-analyzed. Oh, you betcha.

I can't recall any teacher in high school or college pointing out that Shakespeare's plays were popular entertainment in his day, the equivalent of the Saturday matinees at the multiplex.

I seem to remember Stephen King once saying that the scholarly thesis you'll never see is "The Story Values of Moby Dick."

Posted by: Just Some Guy at October 12, 2025 09:46 AM (q3u5l)

100 Who was better in Shakespeare's time if he was over rated?

In his time, Marlowe, Spenser and Kyd were considered better for tragedy, though Shakespeare was noted for being the best at comedy.

I happen to think The Man From Stratford was the author of the plays, but I do like the occasional reading about the authorship question. One of the best books, IMO, is John Michell's Who Wrote Shakespeare? He's an agnostic on the question and goes through most of the candidates one by one, knocking down the case for each. Reading between the lines, however, you can see Michell thinks the plays were a collaborative effort. Worth reading, IMO.

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing (aka Eloquent Depression) at October 12, 2025 09:47 AM (ufSfZ)

101 I have finished a wonderful book, "The Biggest Lie in the History of Christianity". It is by Matthew Kelly and is only about 107 pages long. The biggest lie is that Christians are not capable of holy moments. He describes what those are and encourages us in giving ourselves to God..
Posted by: FenelonSpoke at October 12, 2025 09:43 AM (6jy2V)
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My wife has read that and a bunch of Matthew Kelly books. She's reading Brant Pitre's latest offering.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at October 12, 2025 09:47 AM (ZOv7s)

102 Before I met her, my wife and a friend went to see Midnight Cowboy. They both thought it was going to be a western. Boy, were they surprised.

Posted by: Toad-0 at October 12, 2025 09:47 AM (3qfWj)

103 Franco Zeffirelli's "Hamlet" with Mel Gibson is underrated.

Posted by: Ordinary American at October 12, 2025 09:48 AM (UseAb)

104 My favorite Branaugh movie is Much Ado About Nothing but I think I've seen them all. In looking up Shakespeare movies there are so many of them there should be a channel devoted to them. I would even be willing to pay money.

Posted by: Sharon(willow's apprentice) at October 12, 2025 09:49 AM (t/2Uw)

105 Any Anglicans in the horde?

https://youtu.be/UYqp_YdsfP4

Posted by: I used to have a different nic at October 12, 2025 09:49 AM (ExV1e)

106 So many people seem to have a personal stake in taking away his authorship and handing to someone of higher social standing. It's usually the bootlickers of middling status who can't get published that are the most vicious. Shakespeare was too low class, too stupid, too uneducated to have written these works. It must have been someone of the ruling class - that they desperately want to be part of.

That's one of Sobran's arguments in favor o0f de Vere- that the common people in Shaksepare are almost always portrayed as bumpkins or unlettered or pretentious apers of the betters - exactly the view that a noble would have of the lower classes. Whereas, Sobran argues, the gentry in Shakespeare are always portrayed as rounded, fully understandable characters, just as someone who lived at court would see them.

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing (aka Eloquent Depression) at October 12, 2025 09:49 AM (ufSfZ)

107 My stepson once said he couldn't understand Shakespeare because everybody in his plays talks like Yoda.

Posted by: Toad-0 at October 12, 2025 09:42 AM (3qfWj)
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Yoda is Welsh. All that is missing is an occasional "Look you" at the end of a sentence.
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at October 12, 2025 09:45 AM (ZOv7s)

I thought Canadian. I always expected an "eh" at the end of sentences.

Posted by: Dr. Pork Chops & Bacons at October 12, 2025 09:50 AM (g8Ew8)

108 Think of how nixon the squire of yorba linda has been depicted for 50 years

Posted by: Miguel cervantes at October 12, 2025 09:50 AM (bXbFr)

109 Pleasant reading for a confirmed Tolkien nerd. (Proudly raises my hand.)
Posted by: JTB at October 12, 2025 09:41 AM (yTvNw)

Then you may be interested in the link in comment #2.

Posted by: OrangeEnt at October 12, 2025 09:50 AM (uQesX)

110 102 Before I met her, my wife and a friend went to see Midnight Cowboy. They both thought it was going to be a western. Boy, were they surprised.

Posted by: Toad-0 at October 12, 2025 09:47 AM (3qfWj)
What was their Brokeback Mountain review like?

Posted by: Eromero at October 12, 2025 09:51 AM (JGF4V)

111 So we can look at Will's play as an alternative interpretation of the real history -- fiction, in other words.
Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at October 12, 2025 09:45 AM (omVj0)
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Much of the value of Richard III is that he is such an over the top villain, and one could perhaps see some subversiveness in making him that way. "Sure, sure, the Tudor's are totally legit. Here's a play about it."

Ironically Henry VIII is also a superlative villain who everyone wants to play.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at October 12, 2025 09:51 AM (ZOv7s)

112 Was Richard capable, probably but we have seen how brutal the Tudors turned out to be.

Posted by: Miguel cervantes at October 12, 2025 09:51 AM (bXbFr)

113 Hamlet, too, has been done to death. Though I did see on IMDb that there was a modern-dress version in 2000 set in NYC with Ethan Hawke as the prince of -- well, I guess it wouldn't be Denmark if the setting is NYC. I see Bill Murray played Polonius in it.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at October 12, 2025 09:52 AM (omVj0)

114 Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at October 12, 2025 09:47 AM (ZOv7s)

I didn't know who Matthew Kelly is, but I'm guessing he's RC since I found it at a Catholic Church with a note, "Please take" so I did. Not sure who. Brant Pitre . I'm guessing he's RC is Catholic as well?

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at October 12, 2025 09:53 AM (m6Eem)

115 Il macchia worked for the borgias then staff shakeup and he had to plead his case to the medicis

Posted by: Miguel cervantes at October 12, 2025 09:53 AM (bXbFr)

116 I thought Canadian. I always expected an "eh" at the end of sentences.
Posted by: Dr. Pork Chops & Bacons at October 12, 2025 09:50 AM (g8Ew

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Yoda inverts his sentence structure, which is a feature of Welsh speech.

As for Canada, I don't think it even exists.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at October 12, 2025 09:53 AM (ZOv7s)

117 I'm reading/listening to trash. Murder mysteries by Jude Deveroux, yes the romance writer. I just can't get too invested in anything even semi-serious anymore. October is just crazy for me.

Posted by: lin-duh is offended at October 12, 2025 09:54 AM (VCgbV)

118 The Trek episode "Conscience of the King" is even a rewrite of Hamlet.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at October 12, 2025 09:54 AM (omVj0)

119 I really enjoyed Franco Zeffirelli's "Hamlet" with Mel Gibson.

Posted by: no one of any consequence at October 12, 2025 09:55 AM (ZmEVT)

120 I didn't know who Matthew Kelly is, but I'm guessing he's RC since I found it at a Catholic Church with a note, "Please take" so I did. Not sure who. Brant Pitre . I'm guessing he's RC is Catholic as well?
Posted by: FenelonSpoke at October 12, 2025 09:53 AM (m6Eem)
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Yep, confirmed Papists, both.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at October 12, 2025 09:55 AM (ZOv7s)

121
Probably the best filmed adaptation of "MacBeth" was directed by creepy pervert Roman Polanski.

Who apparently was working out his trauma from having his wife, Sharon Tate, butchered by the Manson Family.

It's a Macbeth stewed in blood, violence, dark magic, ambition, betrayal, reckonings. Probably very close to how Ole Bill S. saw it himself.

Posted by: naturalfake at October 12, 2025 09:55 AM (iJfKG)

122 Danish court struggles were probably as brutal as in thr Norsemen

Posted by: Miguel cervantes at October 12, 2025 09:56 AM (bXbFr)

123 Zeffirelli's Romeo and Juliet came out when I was in high school. Oddly, I haven't seen it.

Wasn't there a modern dress version set in Miami, with warring gangs instead of families? DiCaprio and Claire Danes in the title roles?

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at October 12, 2025 09:56 AM (omVj0)

124 Canada is a figment of someones imagination

Posted by: Miguel cervantes at October 12, 2025 09:57 AM (bXbFr)

125 Good morning, learned people. My exposure to and depth of Shakespeare is shallow, However, he did seem to have a flair for language & dialogue and he knew people's behaviors. His writing endures.

Posted by: Count de Monet at October 12, 2025 09:58 AM (wVcYX)

126 Yes baz luhman kind of a meh update on west side story

Posted by: Miguel cervantes at October 12, 2025 09:58 AM (bXbFr)

127 Was Richard capable, probably but we have seen how brutal the Tudors turned out to be.
Posted by: Miguel cervantes at October 12, 2025 09:51 AM (bXbFr)
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Killing just about everyone in your inner circle is typically regarded as not a nice thing to do.

Declaring yourself the supreme religious authority in the kingdom takes that to the next level. One of history's greatest monsters.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at October 12, 2025 09:58 AM (ZOv7s)

128 As for Canada, I don't think it even exists.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd

Oh, it exists, it is sort of a open air prison where the government controls access to the outdoors and can take one's bank accounts if they don't like your opinions.

Posted by: Thomas Paine at October 12, 2025 09:58 AM (0U5gm)

129 Haven't seen many of the post-Zeffirelli R&J Shakespeare adaptations. Lot of catching up to do. The Mel Gibson Hamlet's been on my list for a while. Have also heard that Polanski's Macbeth was a good one.

I remember enjoying Julius Caesar, the one with Brando, when it came out. That needs a re-watch too.

Posted by: Just Some Guy at October 12, 2025 09:58 AM (q3u5l)

130 Matthew Kelly is RC. Someone at church was buying his books by the case, wrapping them in Christmas gift paper, and giving them away to every parishioner.

It became so that I would get the book and without even unwrapping it I would say "Oh, another Matthew Kelly book."

Posted by: no one of any consequence at October 12, 2025 09:59 AM (ZmEVT)

131 The standard wisdom about R & J is that no actress is capable of playing Juliet properly until she is too old to play the role. Weren't R & J thirteen or fourteen in the play?

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at October 12, 2025 09:59 AM (omVj0)

132 I enjoy reading childrens' books, especially if there are charming illustrations. I have no small children in my life to read to but in my head I hear the words as if I were reading to kids: different voices, dramatic pauses, and so forth. I don't know if other adults do this but it makes it more fun for me. The Brambly Hedge stories (although I get lost in the illustrations), Winnie the Pooh, Wind in the Willows, and similar. Lately, I started "A True Home" first book in the Heartwood Hotel series, which fits in that category. The story is charming and the graphite illustrations remind me of the simple but effective ink sketches of Ernest Shepard.

Posted by: JTB at October 12, 2025 10:00 AM (yTvNw)

133 "A Midsummer Night's Dream" as adapted by Mister Magoo.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1392817/

Posted by: Idaho Spudboy at October 12, 2025 10:00 AM (Ai3df)

134 "Wasn't there a modern dress version set in Miami, with warring gangs instead of families? DiCaprio and Claire Danes in the title roles?"

NYC. Natalie Wood. "West-Side Story."

Posted by: no one of any consequence at October 12, 2025 10:00 AM (ZmEVT)

135 Wasn't there a modern dress version set in Miami, with warring gangs instead of families? DiCaprio and Claire Danes in the title roles?
Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at October 12, 2025 09:56 AM (omVj0)
---
"Romeo + Juliet" which is quite good. Fun use of guns ("Put up your sword!" causes the camera to zoom into the slide of a "Sword 9imm").

It was part of Luhrmann's "love trilogy," the others being "Strictly Ballroom" and "Moulin Rouge."

I liked his Gatsby take.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at October 12, 2025 10:00 AM (ZOv7s)

136 All these comments confirms my idea of a channel devoted to Shakespeare. Could compare different adaptations. The first list I looked up showed hundreds of adaptations.

Posted by: Sharon(willow's apprentice) at October 12, 2025 10:01 AM (t/2Uw)

137 Obligatory:

https://youtu.be/V1tosm25OOE

Posted by: Biden's Dog sniffs a whole lotta malarkey, at October 12, 2025 10:01 AM (yF8Zh)

138 They also have allowed graffiti artists to decorate the interior of the cathedral. I would not be surprised if they also sponsor drag shows.
Posted by: Thomas Paine

AYFKM?!

Posted by: vmom deport deport deport at October 12, 2025 10:01 AM (tcsrY)

139 That's one of Sobran's arguments in favor o0f de Vere- that the common people in Shaksepare are almost always portrayed as bumpkins or unlettered or pretentious apers of the betters - exactly the view that a noble would have of the lower classes. Whereas, Sobran argues, the gentry in Shakespeare are always portrayed as rounded, fully understandable characters, just as someone who lived at court would see them.
Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing (aka Eloquent Depression) at October 12, 2025 09:49 AM (ufSfZ)

I find that argument not very convincing for the simple reason that Shakespeare as a successful writer knew his audience and wrote for them.

Did Ol' Giles Swinherd amble down from his job slopping the pigs in the mud to watch Shakespeare's plays? Probably not.

Did the Fifth Son of Duke Longbottom take in Shakespeare's confections? Yeah, probably so.

Posted by: naturalfake at October 12, 2025 10:02 AM (iJfKG)

140 I played Richard III. There were five curtain calls. I was an actor once, damn it. Now look at me. Look at me! I won't go out there and say that stupid line one more time.

Posted by: Sir Alexander Dane at October 12, 2025 10:02 AM (wVcYX)

141 The standard wisdom about R & J is that no actress is capable of playing Juliet properly until she is too old to play the role. Weren't R & J thirteen or fourteen in the play?

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius

Olivia Hussey was 16 or 17 when filming her Juliet in the movie, which is pretty close.

Posted by: Thomas Paine at October 12, 2025 10:03 AM (0U5gm)

142 I liked his Gatsby take.
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at October 12, 2025 10:00 AM (ZOv7s)

Likewise. Stylish in the right places, affecting at the right moments.

Posted by: Ordinary American at October 12, 2025 10:03 AM (UseAb)

143 They also have allowed graffiti artists to decorate the interior of the cathedral. I would not be surprised if they also sponsor drag shows.
Posted by: Thomas Paine

AYFKM?!
Posted by: vmom deport deport deport at October 12, 2025 10:01 AM (tcsrY)
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Alas, no. They also do "silent discos" where everyone has headphones to hear the music and they have laser light displays and serve drinks in the sanctuary.

The Primate of Wales is a lesbian (but of course).

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at October 12, 2025 10:04 AM (ZOv7s)

144 Orson Welles played the lead and directed 1948s Macbeth[.i].

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing (aka Eloquent Depression) at October 12, 2025 10:04 AM (ufSfZ)

145 109 ... Orange Ent,

Thanks for the link in comment 2. I downloaded it and will read it after the book thread. Should be fun.

Posted by: JTB at October 12, 2025 10:04 AM (yTvNw)

146 They also have allowed graffiti artists to decorate the interior of the cathedral. I would not be surprised if they also sponsor drag shows.
Posted by: Thomas Paine

AYFKM?!

Posted by: vmom

There are pictures of it on X.

Posted by: Thomas Paine at October 12, 2025 10:04 AM (0U5gm)

147 I was in a play once. I think I was maybe 10? I don't even remember what it was. Lol

Posted by: Sharon(willow's apprentice) at October 12, 2025 10:05 AM (t/2Uw)

148 My Favorite Shakespeare is The Taming of the Shrew.

The Burton/Taylor movie AND the Moonlighting TV episode.

Posted by: Count de Monet at October 12, 2025 10:05 AM (wVcYX)

149 No, wait, the modern-dress R & J with DiCaprio and Claire Danes is set in Verona.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at October 12, 2025 10:06 AM (omVj0)

150 I happen to think The Man From Stratford was the author of the plays, but I do like the occasional reading about the authorship question. One of the best books, IMO, is John Michell's Who Wrote Shakespeare? He's an agnostic on the question and goes through most of the candidates one by one, knocking down the case for each. Reading between the lines, however, you can see Michell thinks the plays were a collaborative effort. Worth reading, IMO.
Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing
(aka Eloquent Depression) at October 12, 2025 09:47 AM (ufSfZ)

The funny thing is, some doubters attribute the sonnets to him.

Posted by: OrangeEnt at October 12, 2025 10:06 AM (uQesX)

151 I was in a play once. I think I was maybe 10? I don't even remember what it was. Lol
Posted by: Sharon(willow's apprentice) at October 12, 2025 10:05 AM (t/2Uw)
---
When "High School Musical" came out I was able to tell my kids that I was in fact in a high school musical. Even had a speaking part. A very short speaking part.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at October 12, 2025 10:07 AM (ZOv7s)

152 Orson Welles played the lead and directed 1948s Macbeth[.i].
Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing (aka Eloquent Depression) at October 12, 2025

***
I saw that on late-night TV long ago. The actors all speak in thick Scots dialects -- closed-captioning would help. But the atmosphere and settings are all fantastically well done.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at October 12, 2025 10:07 AM (omVj0)

153 I do love A Midsummer Night's Dream.
The Tempest is also fun.

Posted by: vmom deport deport deport at October 12, 2025 10:07 AM (tcsrY)

154 113 Hamlet, too, has been done to death. Though I did see on IMDb that there was a modern-dress version in 2000 set in NYC with Ethan Hawke as the prince of -- well, I guess it wouldn't be Denmark if the setting is NYC. I see Bill Murray played Polonius in it.
Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at October 12, 2025 09:52
----
I saw this version when it came out and remember liking it. Interesting photography -- one scene had Hamlet in a Blockbuster amid the blue glow of racks of video cassette boxes.

Posted by: All Hail Eris,, coming to you live from the Roller Disco of Discord! at October 12, 2025 10:08 AM (kpS4V)

155 I played Richard III. There were five curtain calls.

Posted by: Sir Alexander Dane at October 12, 2025 10:02 AM (wVcYX)
-

I was a pretty good elementary school actor. Our school decided to put on Shakespeare's "The Comedy of Errors," in which I was assigned the major role of the courtesan.

I knew my lines backwards. On the day of the play, I decided to play sick. Even then, I sensed this was not right.

I coulda been a contender.

Posted by: Biden's Dog sniffs a whole lotta malarkey, at October 12, 2025 10:08 AM (yF8Zh)

156 I was in Annie Get your Gun, because the girl playing Annie had a crush on me and wanted us to dance together.

Posted by: Thomas Paine at October 12, 2025 10:09 AM (0U5gm)

157 The Burton/Taylor movie AND the Moonlighting TV episode.
Posted by: Count de Monet at October 12, 2025 10:05 AM (wVcYX)
---
I bought the first three seasons of Moonlighting in DVD and am inching my way through it. One of the smart moves by the writers was having dream/fantasy sequences where the leads hook up, which pleases the fans, but also preserves the romantic tension because it didn't really happen.

Then they had it actually happen and killed the show. But for a while, they were playing it perfectly.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at October 12, 2025 10:09 AM (ZOv7s)

158 My Favorite Shakespeare is The Taming of the Shrew.

That's Zeffirelli again.

It's a tremendously fun movie with Burton and Taylor just gobbling up the scenery Plenty of laughs.

But, apparently too horribly sexist for Our Stupid Times to ever be seen again. Though you can still find it on blu-ray if you look.

I'm just waiting for Disney to make a roles-reversed version titled, "The Taming of the Cuck:".

Posted by: naturalfake at October 12, 2025 10:10 AM (iJfKG)

159 I didn't know who Matthew Kelly is, but I'm guessing he's RC since I found it at a Catholic Church with a note, "Please take" so I did. Not sure who. Brant Pitre . I'm guessing he's RC is Catholic as well?
Posted by: FenelonSpoke

Oh yeah - Kelly cranks out a book seemingly every other day. Alan Hunt is another - he's a reformed Methodist minister that converted to Catholicism. He spoke (and sold a metric shit ton of books) at our parish last week. Good guy.

Posted by: Tonypete at October 12, 2025 10:10 AM (cYBz/)

160 When "High School Musical" came out I was able to tell my kids that I was in fact in a high school musical. Even had a speaking part. A very short speaking part.
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at October 12, 2025

***
In HS I did the role of Nathan Detroit in Guys and Dolls -- fortunate for me, as Nathan has only one song, I think, and that can be talked-sung. I have no singing ability at all. Our show was a big hit, and the students demanded and got a reprise of the big scenes and tunes of the show like "Sit Down, You're Rocking the Boat" and "Luck, Be a Lady Tonight."

Trivia: Felix Hanemann, who played Nicely-Nicely Johnson with the "Rocking the Boat" song, went on to be the front man for the rock group Zebra.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at October 12, 2025 10:11 AM (omVj0)

161 As for Canada, I don't think it even exists.
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at October 12, 2025 09:53 AM (ZOv7s)

Not for long.

Posted by: Premiers of Alberta, Saskatchewan, etc. at October 12, 2025 10:12 AM (uQesX)

162 I don't know if it's generally available, but Amazon offered me 3 months of Kindle Unlimited for free. So far I've used it to go through Mel Dunay's catalog. As with the ones I read last week, they are quick reads with no explicit scenes. My only complaint remains that they are in desperate need of another editorial pass.

Posted by: Polliwog the 'Ette at October 12, 2025 10:13 AM (lFFaq)

163 In HS plays I was Heck Tate in 'To Kill a Mockingbird' and Luther Billis in 'South Pacific'. And General Bullmoose in 'Lil Abner'.

Bullmoose was the best. I got to wear a white suit.

Posted by: Tonypete at October 12, 2025 10:14 AM (cYBz/)

164 Orson did have a flare for the dramatic, certainly harry lime was a low down conman and worse

Posted by: Miguel cervantes at October 12, 2025 10:14 AM (bXbFr)

165 I knew my lines backwards. On the day of the play, I decided to play sick. Even then, I sensed this was not right.

I coulda been a contender.
Posted by: Biden's Dog sniffs a whole lotta malarkey, at October 12, 2025 10:08 AM (yF8Zh)
---
I played the kidnapped kid in The Ransom of Red Chief in 4th grade. I guess I did well and enjoyed being in plays, but shifted over to the band thing. I knew a lot of the theater kids, though, and in the spring of my senior year got a part in a Robin Hood-ish play cooked up by the theater director and her lesbian girlfriend in the English dept. It was called "Hood: A musical myth" but the cast called it "A musical mythstake." I was one of the goons/sheriff's men. I got a speaking part because I had the best attendance.

I could have been a contender.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at October 12, 2025 10:15 AM (ZOv7s)

166 Sadly, the Shakespear that I have watched/read the most is the Mystery Science Theater 3000 episode featuring Hamlet. ...An old black-and-white dubbed German production of Hamlet... The set-up was the best part of the episode. Mike (a gut trapped up in space and forced to watch bad movies) tricks his captors into letting him pick the movie he watches, but they trick him back by picking the worst version of Hamlet imaginable.

Posted by: Castle Guy at October 12, 2025 10:15 AM (N5RnR)

167 Holly martins (cotten) is supposed to be the noble one

Posted by: Miguel cervantes at October 12, 2025 10:16 AM (bXbFr)

168 My Favorite Shakespeare is The Taming of the Shrew.

Douglas Fairbanks and Mary Pickford did a talkie version in 1929. It bore the classic credit line "Written by William Shakespeare. Additional dialogue by Sam Taylor."

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing (aka Eloquent Depression) at October 12, 2025 10:16 AM (ufSfZ)

169 There was a time when I got to see a lot of live theatre in New York and later in Boston. It feels like a very long time ago. It was actually affordable. Bet that's not the case now.

Posted by: Sharon(willow's apprentice) at October 12, 2025 10:17 AM (t/2Uw)

170 Orange Ent,

Thanks for the link in comment 2. I downloaded it and will read it after the book thread. Should be fun.
Posted by: JTB at October 12, 2025 10:04 AM (yTvNw)

Great. The author would appreciate some reactions to it. You can e-mail me with one if you do it.

(see Writer's Group on main page sidebar)

Posted by: OrangeEnt at October 12, 2025 10:18 AM (uQesX)

171 >I don't know if it's generally available, but Amazon offered me 3 months of Kindle Unlimited for free. So far I've used it to go through Mel Dunay's catalog. As with the ones I read last week, they are quick reads with no explicit scenes. My only complaint remains that they are in desperate need of another editorial pass.

Thank you, Polli! I keep trying to up my editing game, still not there yet, but I'm glad you're enjoying them otherwise.

Posted by: jaglionpress at October 12, 2025 10:18 AM (zPHkj)

172 It says something that people do actually read Shakespeare's plays. I can't think of anyone else we do that for. It's like reading a movie script as literature.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at October 12, 2025 10:19 AM (ZOv7s)

173 I've been fortunate enough to see several Shakespeare plays live in a theater. There is no better way to experience them. The simpler sets, compared to movies, put the focus on the characters and their words. Not a knock on the movies, some of which are excellent, but live is better.

After that, try reading parts out loud. Falstaff's 'what is honor' speech, the first conversation between Henry V and Katherine, and Theseus' speech about imagination in Act V, scene 1 of Midsummer all become more alive that way. Forget the stereotypical 'tripping off the tongue', rapid pace. These are conversations between Shakespeare's characters and the audience and are more effective if heard that way.

Posted by: JTB at October 12, 2025 10:21 AM (yTvNw)

174 Well, time for Mass. Until next week!

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at October 12, 2025 10:21 AM (ZOv7s)

175 The Shakespeare movie of Hamlet I'd like to see is the one the kid imagines in Last Action Hero.

Schwarzenegger as Hamlet. Trailer announcer: "Something's rotten in Denmark. And Hamlet's taking out the trash."

Yeah. I'd pay to see that picture. Shakespeare would be spinning, but then again, maybe he'd have gotten a kick out of it.

Posted by: Just Some Guy at October 12, 2025 10:22 AM (q3u5l)

176 My writing progress (feel free to skip):

I thought, a couple of weeks ago, that I had basically finished my first draft. I'm not happy with a lot of it, but there's some solid stuff there and I know a second and third pass will clean it up significantly.

My problem is that Theda Bara comes off as a very unlikeable character in the book and - more importantly - is more of a puppet that I move here and there to keep the book flowing than an independent protagonist.

I had a long talk with my writing partner (she helps me figure out plotlines and motivations, but the writing is my own) and she helped me see that the problem was that I am no longer in love with Theda Bara. Rather than a 'mystery' that takes place in the silent era in Hollywood with a movie star at the center of it all, I'm writing a straight-up mystery which is dark and bleak. Yes, that is ME in a nutshell, but it's not my books.

So now I'm tearing things apart and trying to write a new opening chapter that bring back the Theda Bara and silent Hollywood I adore. It's very depressing and very frustrating.

No wonder I drink like a Kennedy.

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing (aka Eloquent Depression) at October 12, 2025 10:24 AM (ufSfZ)

177 Everybody robs Shakespeare...

Two of the better teen comedies from the 90s(?)

"Clueless"
and
"10 Things I Hate About You"

were both based around Shakespeare comedies.

Posted by: naturalfake at October 12, 2025 10:25 AM (iJfKG)

178 I suppose I had better wash up, make some tea and get writing.

Hope you all have a lovely weekend.

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing (aka Eloquent Depression) at October 12, 2025 10:25 AM (ufSfZ)

179 141 ... "Olivia Hussey was 16 or 17 when filming her Juliet in the movie, which is pretty close."

I recall that she was 15 when she played Juliet. It was a thing because of the brief (too brief) shot of her boobs.

Posted by: JTB at October 12, 2025 10:26 AM (yTvNw)

180 It says something that people do actually read Shakespeare's plays. I can't think of anyone else we do that for. It's like reading a movie script as literature.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at October 12, 2025 10:19 AM (ZOv7s)

(Interior of an apartment. Shot of the entry door. SFX: Doorbell rings)
(A half-naked woman walks into frame)
Bimbo 1: Hurray! The pizza is here! Does anybody at this topless pillow fight have any money?

Yeah. I see what you mean.

Posted by: Idaho Spudboy at October 12, 2025 10:27 AM (Ai3df)

181 No wonder I drink like a Kennedy.

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing (aka Eloquent Depression) at October 12, 2025 10:24 AM (ufSfZ)
-

You mean like water under the bridge?

Posted by: Biden's Dog sniffs a whole lotta malarkey, at October 12, 2025 10:27 AM (yF8Zh)

182 Or maybe a production with Mandy Patinkin as Hamlet. "Hello. My name is Hamlet. You killed my father. Prepare to die." It could work.

Posted by: Just Some Guy at October 12, 2025 10:27 AM (q3u5l)

183 I think that I mentioned last week that the Moron-recommended 'Six Frigates' had piqued my interest, and so I obtained a copy from the local library. A real tip-o-the-hat to said Moron. It is a fascinating book. While the thrust is the history of the founding of the U.S. Navy, it is also a remarkable general history. Lots and lots of details.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at October 12, 2025 10:29 AM (XeU6L)

184 I just finished the urban U.S. version, the story takes place in present day Baltimore. D'Romeo and the Jailbait Ho.
Posted by: one hour sober at October 12, 2025 09:27 AM (Y1sOo)

D'Romeo and Juliethot

Posted by: haffhowershower at October 12, 2025 10:30 AM (144I4)

185 So now I'm tearing things apart and trying to write a new opening chapter that bring back the Theda Bara and silent Hollywood I adore. It's very depressing and very frustrating.

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing (aka Eloquent Depression) at October 12, 2025 10:24 AM (ufSfZ)

You can do it. At least you have someone going through your manuscript in "real time." Having to wait a few weeks for a reader or editor to get back to you can stop your writing momentum.

Posted by: OrangeEnt at October 12, 2025 10:32 AM (uQesX)

186 184 I just finished the urban U.S. version, the story takes place in present day Baltimore. D'Romeo and the Jailbait Ho.
Posted by: one hour sober at October 12, 2025 09:27 AM (Y1sOo)

D'Romeo and Juliethot
Posted by: haffhowershower at October 12, 2025 10:30 AM (144I4)

Better. You win.

Posted by: one hour sober at October 12, 2025 10:33 AM (Y1sOo)

187 I was in Annie Get your Gun, because the girl playing Annie had a crush on me and wanted us to dance together.
Posted by: Thomas Paine
------
Heh. Immediately conjures up a vision of Betty Hutton doing 'You Can't Get a Man With a Gun':

clip:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awIu4EjHS0I&t=57s

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at October 12, 2025 10:36 AM (XeU6L)

188 I just finished the urban U.S. version, the story takes place in present day Baltimore. D'Romeo and the Jailbait Ho.
Posted by: one hour sober at October 12, 2025 09:27 AM (Y1sOo)

D'Romeo and Juliethot
Posted by: haffhowershower at October 12, 2025 10:30 AM

This place...

Posted by: RedMindBlueState at October 12, 2025 10:37 AM (f5B9a)

189 All this mention of Shakespeare makes me want to revisit "Taming of the Shrew" and "Much Ado About Nothing". Partly for the humor and partly for the non-woke aspects. A little cultural rebellion.

Yes, the Burton/Taylor Taming and Branagh Much Ado are fun films. The over the top approach in both, especially Much Ado, is so appropriate for a Shakespeare comedy.

Posted by: JTB at October 12, 2025 10:39 AM (yTvNw)

190 She's reading Brant Pitre's latest offering.
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd

Our parish adult bible study classes have mostly been based on Brant Pitre's lectures. I like him.

Posted by: vmom deport deport deport at October 12, 2025 10:40 AM (tcsrY)

191 The story is charming and the graphite illustrations remind me of the simple but effective ink sketches of Ernest Shepard.
Posted by: JTB at October

I'm an old man living alone. If I start reading children's books out loud to myself my neighbors will have me put away.
Can say id blame them any.

Posted by: From about That Time at October 12, 2025 10:42 AM (n4GiU)

192 "Clueless"
and
"10 Things I Hate About You"

were both based around Shakespeare comedies.
Posted by: naturalfake

Half right.
Clueless is based on Jane Austen's Emma

Posted by: vmom deport deport deport at October 12, 2025 10:42 AM (tcsrY)

193 I’m reading ‘Chesapeake’ by James Michener. I took a day trip to St. Michael’s MD and was charmed by the locale, its many waterways and wildlife.

It’s slow-going, but that is not Michener’s fault.

Posted by: kallisto at October 12, 2025 10:43 AM (1wmqm)

194
I'm an old man living alone. If I start reading children's books out loud to myself my neighbors will have me put away.
Can say id blame them any.
Posted by: From about That Time
--------

Meh. Harmless eccentric...unless you start yelling at the clouds.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at October 12, 2025 10:43 AM (XeU6L)

195
Our parish adult bible study classes have mostly been based on Brant Pitre's lectures. I like him.

Me too! And John Bergsma

Posted by: kallisto at October 12, 2025 10:45 AM (1wmqm)

196 >> For the Lord Most High is awesome, the great King over all the earth.”

Psalm 47:1

Posted by: Marcus T at October 12, 2025 10:46 AM (ZSxEd)

197
Vmom, you're right!

*kicks rock*

Posted by: naturalfake at October 12, 2025 10:47 AM (iJfKG)

198 I was one of the goons/sheriff's men. I got a speaking part because I had the best attendance.

I could have been a contender.
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at October 12, 2025 10:15 AM (ZOv7s)

--------

See? 95% of success is just showing up.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero43) at October 12, 2025 10:49 AM (Q1uY4)

199 183 ... Mike Hammer,

I haven't mentioned "Six Frigates" for a long time but glad you liked it. Ian Toll did a fantastic job of providing plenty of information with real narrative flair. I believe there were comparisons to Shelby Foote's Civil War trilogy and Patrick O'Brian's Aubrey series.

Posted by: JTB at October 12, 2025 10:49 AM (yTvNw)

200 I do love A Midsummer Night's Dream.
The Tempest is also fun.
Posted by: vmom deport deport deport at October 12, 2025 10:07 AM (tcsrY)

Had a cat named Caliban a long time ago.

Posted by: Dr. Pork Chops & Bacons at October 12, 2025 10:50 AM (g8Ew8)

201 Our high school requires the kids take a Shakespeare course. They rotate the plays among the big ones-MacBeth, Hamlet, Romeo & Juliet, Julius Caesar,

They use the "No Fear Shakespeare" books for the course material. They have the original text on one page and the common use wording next to it. It makes it much easier for the kids to understand the play. They also show a video of the play if ones available.

Posted by: Betaraybill at October 12, 2025 10:50 AM (4KVvr)

202 Over whose acres walk’d those blessed feet

Which fourteen hundred years ago were nail’d

For our advantage on the bitter cross

– Henry IV, Part I

Posted by: Marcus T at October 12, 2025 10:50 AM (ZSxEd)

203 Last.nite watched a movie based on a book by James Cain — Double Indemnity.

But the film I watched was not the famous original with Stanwyck and MacMurray. The year after that release, they tweaked the setting and other elements a bit, employed B and C level actors, and came up with a surprisingly good B movie take on the story.
Ann Savage played the Stanwyck part and Hugh Beaumont the male lead.
Apology for a Murder is the name.

I guess the public could not get enough if the Double Indemnity story, so Douglas Sirk obliged them with a knock off

Posted by: kallisto at October 12, 2025 10:51 AM (bFWLN)

204 Douglas Sirk -- was it his usual richly colored imagery?

Posted by: All Hail Eris,, coming to you live from the Roller Disco of Discord! at October 12, 2025 10:53 AM (kpS4V)

205 I recall that she was 15 when she played Juliet. It was a thing because of the brief (too brief) shot of her boobs.
Posted by: JTB at October 12, 2025 10:26 AM (yTvNw)

Yup. I perked right up with that scene.

Posted by: Dr. Pork Chops & Bacons at October 12, 2025 10:55 AM (g8Ew8)

206 Better. You win.
Posted by: one hour sober

No. We all win.

Posted by: haffhowershower at October 12, 2025 10:57 AM (144I4)

207 Someone had to mention the movie Midnight Cowboy. Don't care about the film but now I have that haunting harmonica theme song in my head. Oh well, I've had worse ear worms.

Posted by: JTB at October 12, 2025 10:58 AM (yTvNw)

208 I recall that she was 15 when she played Juliet. It was a thing because of the brief (too brief) shot of her boobs.
Posted by: JTB at October 12, 2025

***
That could be why I didn't see it then. If that was in there, it was probably rated NC-17, and I was 15-16 at the time. I probably could have sneaked in. But I hated the idea of being busted, so I passed. . . .

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at October 12, 2025 10:58 AM (omVj0)

209 204 Douglas Sirk -- was it his usual richly colored imagery

No ma'am...

Noir!

Posted by: kallisto at October 12, 2025 11:00 AM (7Posm)

210 The best modern retelling of Hamlet is Strange Brew, with Bob and Doug McKenzie.

Posted by: I am the Shadout Mapes, the Housekeeper at October 12, 2025 11:06 AM (PiwSw)

211 The best modern retelling of Hamlet is Strange Brew, with Bob and Doug McKenzie.
Posted by: I am the Shadout Mapes, the Housekeeper at October 12, 2025 11:06 AM (PiwSw)

Damn hosers.

Posted by: Dr. Pork Chops & Bacons at October 12, 2025 11:07 AM (g8Ew8)

212 205 I recall that she was 15 when she played Juliet. It was a thing because of the brief (too brief) shot of her boobs.
Posted by: JTB at October 12, 2025 10:26 AM (yTvNw)

Yup. I perked right up with that scene.
Posted by: Dr. Pork Chops & Bacons at October 12, 2025 10:55 AM (g8Ew

I saw that as a very young lad. I don't think my folks had the faintest notion that there would be boobs in a Shakespeare production. They weren't in the room at the time luckily so no embarrassment or remonstration were involved.

Posted by: OMG HE CAN'T SEE THAT!!! DIRTYPILLOWS! at October 12, 2025 11:09 AM (TbWk/)

213 That could be why I didn't see it then. If that was in there, it was probably rated NC-17, and I was 15-16 at the time. I probably could have sneaked in. But I hated the idea of being busted, so I passed. . . .
Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at October 12, 2025 10:58 AM (omVj0)

There was no NC17 rating when that movie was released (196

Posted by: Nearing a golden age of movie boobage at October 12, 2025 11:11 AM (TbWk/)

214 I'm trying to shoehorn a Matt Helm reference into Romeo and Juliet, and failing miserably.

Oh well. I'll put another finger of bourbon into my coffee cup and see what happens.

Posted by: Idaho Spudboy at October 12, 2025 11:13 AM (Ai3df)

215 The bit with Olivia Hussey's boobs got a lot of attention and criticism at the time because of her age, it was Shakespeare, and it was 1967. All because of a one or two second shot. It's not like she was parading through a scene topless but some people reacted like it was porn. Youngsters could see more in National Geographic articles about Africa.

Posted by: JTB at October 12, 2025 11:17 AM (yTvNw)

216 Weasel , thanks for the tip on the gutenberg project

Posted by: JM in Illinois at October 12, 2025 11:18 AM (NTdv6)

217 There was no NC17 rating when that movie was released (1968 ).
Posted by: Nearing a golden age of movie boobage at October 12, 2025

***
There was something like it. I'd wanted to see Barbarella w/ Jane Fonda, for pure horniness in a young lad, and I'd just turned 15 . . . and the ratings system declared the JF flick to be only 16 or older admitted. Grrrr.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at October 12, 2025 11:19 AM (omVj0)

218 Have to run some errands. BBL. (Don't you hate it when life interferes with the book thread?)

Posted by: JTB at October 12, 2025 11:19 AM (yTvNw)

219 The bit with Olivia Hussey's boobs got a lot of attention and criticism at the time because of her age, it was Shakespeare, and it was 1967. All because of a one or two second shot. It's not like she was parading through a scene topless but some people reacted like it was porn. Youngsters could see more in National Geographic articles about Africa.

Posted by: JTB at October 12, 2025 11:17 AM (yTvNw)

As Joe Bob Biggs the Drive-In Movie Critic said, I'm against showing boobs in a movie, unless it is absolutely essential to the plot!

Posted by: Idaho Spudboy at October 12, 2025 11:21 AM (Ai3df)

220 Copyright protection for modern books written after nineteen seventy eight is the author's life plus seventy years. Bus guttenberg cannot have many recent works

Posted by: JM in Illinois at October 12, 2025 11:21 AM (NTdv6)

221 Have to run some errands. BBL. (Don't you hate it when life interferes with the book thread?)
Posted by: JTB at October 12, 2025 11:19 AM (yTvNw)

Yes. Yes, I do. (every durn week the wife wants to leave early for work)

Posted by: OrangeEnt at October 12, 2025 11:21 AM (uQesX)

222 Starting 11/1/68, there was "Rated R: Restricted – Persons under 16 not admitted, unless accompanied by parent or adult guardian." I think that's what I encountered when I was 15.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at October 12, 2025 11:22 AM (omVj0)

223 But guttenburg has many great works to choose from

Posted by: JM in Illinois at October 12, 2025 11:22 AM (NTdv6)

224 The bit with Olivia Hussey's boobs got a lot of attention and criticism at the time because of her age, it was Shakespeare, and it was 1967. All because of a one or two second shot. It's not like she was parading through a scene topless but some people reacted like it was porn. Youngsters could see more in National Geographic articles about Africa.
Posted by: JTB at October 12, 2025 11:17 AM (yTvNw)

It would probably be worthwhile to look at who the director was, and the major producers, because those are the people who made the decision to put a 15 year old's tits on display.

You can be sure they were doing more than that behind the scenes.

Posted by: BurtTC at October 12, 2025 11:22 AM (c3jpK)

225 Hello, still on Oliver Twist.
Also picked up a $10 hardcover of Dickens with 4 novels I own digitally but don't have in physical media. They also had a full set of Dickens in hardcover and illustration but it was $150 and I just couldn't justify spending that much. But I wanted to...

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, Buy ammo at October 12, 2025 11:24 AM (xcxpd)

226 It would probably be worthwhile to look at who the director was, and the major producers, because those are the people who made the decision to put a 15 year old's tits on display.

You can be sure they were doing more than that behind the scenes.
Posted by: BurtTC at October 12, 2025 11:22 AM (c3jpK)

I thought she lied about her age?

Posted by: OrangeEnt at October 12, 2025 11:25 AM (uQesX)

227 Rated R: Restricted – Persons under 16 not admitted, unless accompanied by parent or adult guardian.

***
And Barbarella was released Oct. 10, 1968, so it should not have been covered by that 11/1/68 rating system. Maybe the local theatre decided on their own to run it as an R.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at October 12, 2025 11:25 AM (omVj0)

228 And Barbarella was released Oct. 10, 1968, so it should not have been covered by that 11/1/68 rating system. Maybe the local theatre decided on their own to run it as an R.
Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at October 12, 2025 11:25 AM (omVj0)

GMRX

Posted by: OrangeEnt at October 12, 2025 11:26 AM (uQesX)

229 Project Gutenberg, as well as home computers, didn't exist when I was younger. Too bad. They offer treasures free for the taking. Being limited to public domain literature still provides riches beyond counting.

Posted by: JTB at October 12, 2025 11:27 AM (yTvNw)

230 I recall that she was 15 when she played Juliet. It was a thing because of the brief (too brief) shot of her boobs.
Posted by: JTB at October 12, 2025 10:26 AM (yTvNw)

We watched it in one of my classes in junior high. My female teacher was impressed with that scene.

Posted by: Berserker-Dragonheads Division at October 12, 2025 11:28 AM (snZF9)

231 Pretty sure Zefirelli wasn't interested in Olivia's boobs. He was probably drooling over the strapping lad playing Romeo.

Posted by: Trimegistus at October 12, 2025 11:28 AM (78a2H)

232 Somewhere around half way through The Prague Cemetery by Umberto Eco. Last night I made the mistake of reading one of the blurbs on the back cover and now I know where this is going. Can't decide if that's good or bad. I'm also reading Francis Parkman's 1890-ish history of LaSalle and French expeditions into my home territory (Wisconsin and adjacent states). Parkman is an excellent writer and moves things along rapidly.

Posted by: who knew at October 12, 2025 11:28 AM (+ViXu)

233 Don't know if they still do it (or even if they're still in operation), but one of the book clubs (Book of the Month Club IIRC) used to offer a full Oxford Illustrated Dickens for next to nothing as a come-on to join the club for a year or two. Worth poking around for their ads maybe?

Posted by: Just Some Guy at October 12, 2025 11:28 AM (q3u5l)

234 And Barbarella was released Oct. 10, 1968, so it should not have been covered by that 11/1/68 rating system. Maybe the local theatre decided on their own to run it as an R.
Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at October 12, 2025 11:25 AM (omVj0)

I haven't watched anything with Jane Fonda in it since her treasonous foray into North Vietnam.

Posted by: Dr. Pork Chops & Bacons at October 12, 2025 11:29 AM (g8Ew8)

235 219 The bit with Olivia Hussey's boobs got a lot of attention and criticism at the time because of her age, it was Shakespeare, and it was 1967. All because of a one or two second shot. It's not like she was parading through a scene topless but some people reacted like it was porn. Youngsters could see more in National Geographic articles about Africa.

Posted by: JTB at October 12, 2025 11:17 AM (yTvNw)

As Joe Bob Biggs the Drive-In Movie Critic said, I'm against showing boobs in a movie, unless it is absolutely essential to the plot!
Posted by: Idaho Spudboy at October 12, 2025 11:21 AM (Ai3df)

Considering his boob count rating, I suspect that is tongue in cheek.

I miss nudity in movies. It's too damn rare and niche nowadays.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, Buy ammo at October 12, 2025 11:29 AM (xcxpd)

236 Even as I reduce the number of books I own, I still get paper versions of certain authors: Lewis, Tolkien (of course), Chesterton, and George MacDonald. Ebooks are convenient but I want some books on the shelf, not in the ether.

Posted by: JTB at October 12, 2025 11:30 AM (yTvNw)

237 Pretty sure Zefirelli wasn't interested in Olivia's boobs. He was probably drooling over the strapping lad playing Romeo.
Posted by: Trimegistus at October 12, 2025 11:28 AM (78a2H)

I just looked it up, apparently both stars filed a lawsuit in 2023, alleging "sexual abuse, sexual misconduct, and fraud."

My general rule is, if you have a movie or teevee show with children in it, someone is trying to f**k them on the set.

Posted by: BurtTC at October 12, 2025 11:30 AM (EfLg5)

238 Speaking of evil perverts, the lead singer of Lostprophets was killed in prison recently.

If you don't know who Lostprophets were, or who the lead singer was, don't look them up.

There aren't too many more evil sex perverts than that guy. May he rot in hell.

Posted by: BurtTC at October 12, 2025 11:32 AM (EfLg5)

239 On the way to TX. Stopped to discharge bodily fluids, so I thought I'd say howdy!

Posted by: Weasel at October 12, 2025 11:32 AM (yIYZe)

240 233 Don't know if they still do it (or even if they're still in operation), but one of the book clubs (Book of the Month Club IIRC) used to offer a full Oxford Illustrated Dickens for next to nothing as a come-on to join the club for a year or two. Worth poking around for their ads maybe?
Posted by: Just Some Guy at October 12, 2025 11:28 AM (q3u5l)

oooh, neat. Thanks.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, Buy ammo at October 12, 2025 11:33 AM (xcxpd)

241 Just Some Guy said that the Shakespeare's comedies didn't work for him. I felt the same until I saw one performed and realized half of comedy is in the timing and delivery. I had read the play and missed half the jokes that were obvious, and funny, on stage.

Posted by: who knew at October 12, 2025 11:34 AM (+ViXu)

242
I haven't watched anything with Jane Fonda in it since her treasonous foray into North Vietnam.
Posted by: Dr. Pork Chops & Bacons at October 12, 2025

***
Well, that happened later. In '68 she was still in her "sexy actress" phase, before graduating to "serious actress."

From what I understand, aside from eye candy, I haven't missed much not seeing Barbarella.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at October 12, 2025 11:34 AM (omVj0)

243 Considering his boob count rating, I suspect that is tongue in cheek.

I miss nudity in movies. It's too damn rare and niche nowadays.
Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, Buy ammo at October 12, 2025 11:29 AM (xcxpd)

It’s been a weird shift in the culture, one I never anticipated, almost neo-Victorian. The current younger generation appears to be horribly frightened of normal sexuality.

Posted by: Tom Servo at October 12, 2025 11:35 AM (mzEwx)

244
Back from Mass and some emergency shopping and taking care of dogs, so I'm late to this thread.

I've been reading It Was a Long Time Ago and It Never Happened by David Satter, a fascinating study of how post-Soviet Russia has buried the Stalin years. A more detailed review next week.

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at October 12, 2025 11:35 AM (tgvbd)

245 Somewhere around half way through The Prague Cemetery by Umberto Eco. Last night I made the mistake of reading one of the blurbs on the back cover and now I know where this is going. Can't decide if that's good or bad. I'm also reading Francis Parkman's 1890-ish history of LaSalle and French expeditions into my home territory (Wisconsin and adjacent states). Parkman is an excellent writer and moves things along rapidly.
Posted by: who knew at October 12, 2025 11:28 AM (+ViXu)

Yeah, I hate plot summaries, whether it's a movie or book.

"Bob is a happy young lad, growing up in East Cleveland. Then one day a magical fairy comes along, and transforms him to Glottenspickel, where he becomes the king after defeating the evil Lord Mockbub. He meets his princess bride, the lovely Cheryl, and they live happily ever after."

Ok then, now I don't need to read the book.

Posted by: BurtTC at October 12, 2025 11:36 AM (EfLg5)

246 Well, that happened later. In '68 she was still in her "sexy actress" phase, before graduating to "serious actress."

From what I understand, aside from eye candy, I haven't missed much not seeing Barbarella.
Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at October 12, 2025 11:34 AM (omVj0)

To be honest, I've seen some of her more famous roles too. I don't get the acclaim. As an actress, she's wooden.

Posted by: BurtTC at October 12, 2025 11:38 AM (EfLg5)

247 “half of comedy is in the timing and delivery. I had read the play and missed half the jokes that were obvious, and funny, on stage.
Posted by: who knew at October 12, 2025 11:34 AM (+ViXu)”

Agreed - I find film versions of “12th night” tedious and dull, yet I’ve seen a stage production that was one of the best and funniest pieces of theater I’ve ever seen. It all comes down to the actors.

Posted by: Tom Servo at October 12, 2025 11:40 AM (mzEwx)

248 It’s been a weird shift in the culture, one I never anticipated, almost neo-Victorian. The current younger generation appears to be horribly frightened of normal sexuality.
Posted by: Tom Servo at October 12, 2025 11:35 AM (mzEwx)

Well, for a generation that can't tell the difference between a boy and a girl, nudity could be a traumatic experience for them.

Posted by: Dr. Pork Chops & Bacons at October 12, 2025 11:41 AM (g8Ew8)

249
As an actress, she's wooden.
Posted by: BurtTC at October 12, 2025 11:38 AM (EfLg5)

__________

The apple didn't fall far from the tree.

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at October 12, 2025 11:42 AM (tgvbd)

250

Shakespeare is a dish best served cold.

No, wait, that's left over pizza...

Posted by: Elderly Git at October 12, 2025 11:42 AM (Sx6wJ)

251 'bout time I headed off to do some Sunday chores. Thanks, Weasel and all of you for this highlight of the AoSHQ week!

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at October 12, 2025 11:43 AM (omVj0)

252 Have been poking around the listings from Prime Video, Tubi, Archive.org, and adding some of the Shakespeare films to the near-unmanageable watch list. Will try a few of the comedies as well to see if they work better for me on film than they did when I read some eons ago.

The watch list for this month, though, is taken up with sf/horror movies -- it's Halloween season, after all. Justified Macbeth for last night's selection without too much trouble because, hey, witches and ghost.

Posted by: Just Some Guy at October 12, 2025 11:45 AM (q3u5l)

253 Shakespeare is a dish best served cold.

No, wait, that's left over pizza...
Posted by: Elderly Git at October 12, 2025 11:42 AM (Sx6wJ)

Take the pizza. It'll much more satisfying than Shakespeare.

Posted by: Dr. Pork Chops & Bacons at October 12, 2025 11:48 AM (g8Ew8)

254 Wow, thread still open? Neat.

I was playing with AI illustrating different scenes from The Baddies. This one came out pretty good.

https://is.gd/IUcxYc

Posted by: Victor Tango Kilo at October 12, 2025 11:50 AM (vKEG1)

255 124
'Canada is a figment of someones imagination'

Canada does exist.
But should it?

Posted by: Dr. Claw at October 12, 2025 11:50 AM (fd80v)

256 Well, off to wreak havoc and disaster doing a few chores here at Casa Some Guy.

Enjoy the TxMoMe, those of you attending.

Thanks for the thread, Weasel.

Have a good one, gang.

Posted by: Just Some Guy at October 12, 2025 11:50 AM (q3u5l)

257 I'm trying to shoehorn a Matt Helm reference into Romeo and Juliet, and failing miserably.
Posted by: Idaho Spudboy
------
A couple of titles?
The Intriguers and The Poisoners.

Posted by: buddhaha at October 12, 2025 11:51 AM (hYL69)

258 Hey, Tolkien fans and late readers!

Take a look at comments 1 and 2. An author would like some feedback on a Tolkien base humor pieces. You have to be a member to comment, but if you have a reaction, just e-mail it to me and I'll post it on A Literary Horde.

email on main page sidebar

Posted by: OrangeEnt at October 12, 2025 11:52 AM (uQesX)

259 Speaking of versions, does anybody have a recommendation for versions of Shakespeare in print? Specifically the annotations, as reading Shakespeare is a challenge without them. Iirc in college lo so many years ago we read the Penguin Classics, which had the text on one page with annotations on the facing page. Thus you could get all the subtext without having to look down or flip pages.

Maybe all versions do?

Posted by: Dr. Fausti - I WAS The Science at October 12, 2025 11:52 AM (8hxDK)

260 Watched a bit or Two Towers yesterday, it's a sad retelling at best

Posted by: Skip at October 12, 2025 11:55 AM (+qU29)

261 163
'And General Bullmoose in 'Lil Abner'.

Bullmoose was the best. I got to wear a white suit.'

What's good for General Bullmoose is good for the USA!.

Posted by: Dr. Claw at October 12, 2025 11:58 AM (fd80v)

262 WE HAZ A NOOD

Posted by: Skip at October 12, 2025 12:01 PM (+qU29)

263 210

'The best modern retelling of Hamlet is Strange Brew'

Who is Beermeister Smith in the Shakespeare version?

Posted by: Dr. Claw at October 12, 2025 12:03 PM (fd80v)

264 In before the Tolkien geeks...

Dammit!

Posted by: Rev. Wishbone at October 12, 2025 12:05 PM (Om+DK)

265 Well! Made it to the end of the book thread this week without having to leave early. Thanks for your work, Weasel.

Posted by: OrangeEnt at October 12, 2025 12:05 PM (uQesX)

266 More proof of old William being a Sicilian from a family named Crolllalanza / shake and spear or lance.

Posted by: TG Sam at October 12, 2025 12:05 PM (OlCrI)

267 In before the Tolkien geeks...

Dammit!
Posted by: Rev. Wishbone at October 12, 2025 12:05 PM (Om+DK)

Saw post #1, eh?

Posted by: OrangeEnt at October 12, 2025 12:05 PM (uQesX)

268 Hey, I beat the nood! By ten whole minutes!
We have house guests from PA. They're up early, and make noise.

Posted by: buddhaha at October 12, 2025 12:12 PM (hYL69)

269 Daughter finished the half-marathon in about two hours, 45 minutes.

Posted by: Weak Geek at October 12, 2025 12:13 PM (Dm7wS)

270 Some guy: In case you drop back by here; Shakespeare and comedy...

For an, ah very unusual and to my taste very funny, adaptation of a Shakespeare play, try ewetube for the Flying Karamazov Brothers version of. The Comedy of Errors. For a few months back in the late 70s or early 80s The Karamazovs performed in a slapstick version of The Comedy of Errors (there was a musical version titled "The Boys From Syracuse" by Rogers and Hart in the 30s) with The Kamakazi Ground Crew for musical accompaniment and Avner the Eccentric doing incidental bits. IIRC, one of the performances was broadcast on PBS and recorded. For years the only way to watch the performance was bootlegs or a membership in the right PBS affiliate. There's now a good copy (the bootlegs were mostly bad) available on ewetube in two parts. Of course, it's all a matter of taste, but if you like the Karamazov's brand of comedy you'll probably like their version of Shakespeare.

Posted by: Pope John 20th at October 12, 2025 12:22 PM (yl1YV)

271 269
'Daughter finished the half-marathon in about two hours, 45 minutes.'

That's amazing.

Posted by: Dr. Claw at October 12, 2025 12:27 PM (fd80v)

272 Oh, and for those looking for a version of Shakespeare with footnotes as it were, try "Asimov's Guide to Shakespeare." Some of his explanations tend to the too facile, but it is useful for some of the more confusing bits.

And for filmed versions... A few years back the Beeb filmed Shakespear's York/Lancaster series of historical plays with a mostly interesting cast (Judi Dench, Jeremy Irons, Tom Hiddleston, etc) under the collective title of "The Hollow Crown. The plays are "Richard II," "Henry IV (both parts)," "Henry V," "Henry VI (both parts)" and "Richard III." Despite some ahistorical "inclusive" casting choices, it's mostly very good. I don't think much of Benedict Cumberbatch's performance chewing the scenery as Glouster (Richard III), but then again that's how Shakespeare wrote the character so I suppose my complaint on that score is with him.

Posted by: Pope John 20th at October 12, 2025 12:37 PM (yl1YV)

273 232 [...] I'm also reading Francis Parkman's 1890-ish history of LaSalle and French expeditions into my home territory (Wisconsin and adjacent states). Parkman is an excellent writer and moves things along rapidly.

I've never heard of Francis Parkman so thank you! His books are on archive.org

Posted by: microcosme at October 12, 2025 01:12 PM (+6s3v)

274 93 I’ve thought about LOTR as Tolkien saying goodbye to his three friends he lost in the war, as dramatized by Frodo leaving Middle Earth and saying goodbye to his three friends. I think it had that in “Tolkien and the Great War” which I read a long time ago.

Posted by: Norrin Radd, sojourner of the spaceways at October 12, 2025 02:21 PM (aPpm9)

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