Gun Thread: Second March Edition!

Did you spring ahead?

Howdy, Y'all! Welcome to the wondrously fabulous Gun Thread! As always, I want to thank all of our regulars for being here week in and week out, and also offer a bigly Gun Thread welcome to any newcomers who may be joining us tonight. Howdy and thank you for stopping by! I hope you find our wacky conversation on the subject of guns 'n shooting both enjoyable and informative. You are always welcome to lurk in the shadows of shame, but I'd like to invite you to jump into the conversation, say howdy, and tell us what kind of shooting you like to do!

Holy Shitballs! How in the ever-loving Hell did it get to be the Second March Edition? Not the March 2nd, edition, but rather the second edition of March edition, with the first being March 2nd the second being today, March 9th? I'm not sure why you people are making this so difficult. Calendar fundamentals, people. Calendar fundamentals.

With that, step into the dojo and let's get to the gun stuff below, shall we?

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FUNdamentals

Kay Miculek discusses trigger control, an important element of shooting fundamentals, in this Babes with Bullets episode!

How wacky is that?! It's almost like shooting runs in this family!

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Re-posted Without Permission

The following note from our pal Jim Sunk New Dawn was originally posted on the Thusday 3/6 ONT. As you all know Jim SND is a great friend and regular contributor here on the Ol' Gun Thread, but some may be unaware that Jim is suffering from Amyotrophic lateral sclerosis (ALS), or Lou Gehrig's disease. I thought I'd re-post this here tonight to make sure everyone has an update on his condition and an explanation of why you haven't seen Jim on the blog.

Not knowing where to start, so I'll just do so, however clumsily. I've asked Weird Dave to edit and proof this for me, as my typing has declined from 80 wpm, down to about 8. As to my scarcity here. Goes to this, really. I'll have to type this in bits and pieces. Put it together and into WD's able hands. When he posts this, I will in NO WAY be able to respond to even a single greeting or inquiry. Hence, I greet you all, and will gladly wave at your words there on my screen. My fingers though, grow weak and quail at that many keystrokes. Same with chewing. I'm a walking skeleton, it's a job to chew much, no matter how good the fare. Feeding tube soon to follow.
Otherwise, I'm still able to care for myself in all ways, even driving. Down to 2 shotguns and 3 rifles for sale. All the handguns are gone, save for my carry gun (which IWB helps to hold my pants up) and Herself New Dawn's small battery at arms. With which she's highly skilled. Don't piss her off, 'eh?
Thanks to Federal ALS legislation, the VA was directed to adjudge my case as Fully Service Related. So, I get all the "boosts". Healthcare, equipment, household ADA mods, and boost to Social Security. I requested a Home Health aide, but when Herself New Dawn saw that I had spec'd a mid-30s buxom lass, well... the doctors say my bruising should subside any day now...
Much more to report, but hands now tire.

It takes a great deal of courage and good character to maintain a sense of humor when life hands you such a shitty deal, and Jim has an abundance of both. Please keep him in your prayers.

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Shooting at the Legs

Good idea or retarded?

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Question from All Y'all

I'm embarrassed to admit how long this question has been in my inbox. Apologies Biden's Dog, I wasn't ignoring you on purpose!

I usually am fast asleep here in Israel when the gun thread gets posted. One of our pups needs a high quality appendix holster. Can any of you morons link to holsters you recommend? Thanks.
Regards from Jerusalem,
Biden’s Dog

So any help with a holster recommendation?

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Hickok45

In this video Hickok45 tries several bolt rifles - does he choose one he'd never give up?.

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Best Cleaner, Lubricant & Protectant?

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Trinitrotoluene!

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Highway Patrol!
Hostage copter!

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Our Pal Quantum Phase Transitions

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On The Threshold of Space!

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Cigar of the Week

030925 Rhomb Highclere Castle 1 scaled.jpg

This week our pal rhomboid scores again with this excellent review of the Highclere Castle Edwardian

Foundation Cigar's Nick Melillo names all his lines for historical places or figures. His first well known line was Charter Oak, named for the historic tree in his native Connecticut. The Highclere Castle Edwardian continues the practice. It's a nice light brown stick, with flawless construction, to the eye. An Ecuadoran connecticut shade wrapper encases a dark mata fina wrapper from Brazil, with a hybrid Nicaraguan seed filler inside. To me (I tried the corona, 5 X 46) it is a very smooth and mild smoke, with ample smoke volume. One of the current craze of connecticuts with lots of flavor. Maker says citrus, I get some of that, but overall a very slight mild sweetness, light woods, some mild earth. Definitely a good choice for those who enjoy mild cigars. They're not giving them away - you'll find them online for $10 and up per stick.

Excellent, rhomboid! Thank you!

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Here are some different online cigar vendors. You will find they not only carry different brands and different lines from those brands, but also varying selections of vitolas (sizes/shapes) of given lines. It's good to have options, especially if you're looking for a specific cigar.

Cigarsinternational.com
Cigarpage.com
Famous-smoke.com
Cigarsdaily.com
Neptunecigar.com
Smallbatchcigar.com
Bobalu Cigar Company
Cigarbid.com
Nicks Cigar World New!

A note about sources. The brick & mortar/online divide exists with cigars, as with guns, and most consumer products, with respect to price. As with guns - since both are "persecuted industries", basically - I make a conscious effort to source at least some of my cigars from my local store(s). It's a small thing, but the brick & mortar segment for both guns and tobacco are precious, and worth supporting where you can. And if you're lucky enough to have a good cigar store/lounge available, they're often a good social event with many dangerous people of the sort who own scary gunz, or read smart military blogs like this one. -rhomboid

Anyone have others to include? Perhaps a small local roller who makes a cigar you like? Send me your recommendation and a link to the site!

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Ammo Link-O-Rama
I'm really very seriously not kidding around anymore. Buy Ammo
AmmoSeek - online ammo search tool
GunBot - online ammo search tool
SG Ammo
Palmetto State Armory
Georgia Arms
AmmoMan
Target Sports USA
Bud's Gun Shop
American Elite Ammo NEW!

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Please note the new and improved protonmail account gunthread at protonmail dot com. An informal Gun Thread archive can be found HERE. Future expansion plans are in the works for the site Weasel Gun Thread. If you have a question you would like to ask Gun Thread Staff offline, just send us a note and we'll do our best to answer. If you care to share the story of your favorite firearm, send a picture with your nic and tell us what you sadly lost in the tragic canoe accident. If you would like to remain completely anonymous, just say so. Lurkers are always welcome!

That's it for this week - have you been to the range?

Posted by: Weasel at 07:00 PM

Comments

(Jump to bottom of comments)

1 st! Gubs!

Posted by: Schnorflepuppy - OT but harmless at March 09, 2025 07:00 PM (v23vE)

2 1

Posted by: Eromero at March 09, 2025 07:00 PM (LHPAg)

3 Good evening everyone

Posted by: Skip i at March 09, 2025 07:01 PM (fwDg9)

4 Bang!

Posted by: Pete Bog at March 09, 2025 07:01 PM (Bjq84)

5 Here. Hey, Weasel!

Posted by: RI Red at March 09, 2025 07:01 PM (62FZE)

6 21! Blackjack!

Posted by: Eromero at March 09, 2025 07:01 PM (LHPAg)

7 Hello, Weasel! FYI, sent a Gun Thread submission to you earlier today.

Posted by: Ed L at March 09, 2025 07:02 PM (AiJK3)

8 Howdy!

Posted by: Puddleglum, drive by pew pew at March 09, 2025 07:02 PM (sAmhv)

9 Thanks Weasel and WeirdDave for the post from Jim SND. His courage to laugh in the face of a devastating disease is inspirational. 30-ish buxom blonde, indeed!

Posted by: Schnorflepuppy - OT but harmless at March 09, 2025 07:03 PM (v23vE)

10 Guess the gun, the car, and the absent friend.

https://tinyurl.com/5n7698dh

Posted by: Grump928(C) Happy birthday vic at March 09, 2025 07:03 PM (jc0TO)

11 Did y'all happen to notice that Weasel managed to get the Gun Thread posted at 6:00 p.m. (Texas Time) despite the Daylight Savings Time discombobulation in the space-time continuum earlier this morning?

Posted by: Duncanthrax at March 09, 2025 07:06 PM (elO/o)

12 Our Pal Quantum Phase Transitions

This place...

Posted by: RedMindBlueState at March 09, 2025 07:07 PM (Wnv9h)

13 I could have been first but I'm an hour behind.

Posted by: fd at March 09, 2025 07:07 PM (vFG9F)

14 It's almost like being a Honorary Texan is a superpower or sumpin'.

Posted by: Duncanthrax at March 09, 2025 07:08 PM (elO/o)

15 Good evening Horde. Thanks Weasel!

Posted by: TRex at March 09, 2025 07:08 PM (IQ6Gq)

16 Howdy, Weasel!

Howdy, Morons!

Howdy, Jim SND if you are quietly watching from the wings!

Posted by: Pillage Idiot at March 09, 2025 07:09 PM (Q4Dc6)

17 Our Pal Quantum Phase Transitions

This place...
Posted by: RedMindBlueState at March 09, 2025 07:07 PM (Wnv9h)

… is certainly unique.
Hey, RMBS. Sap is rising up here.

Posted by: RI Red at March 09, 2025 07:09 PM (62FZE)

18 It takes a great deal of courage and good character to maintain a sense of humor when life hands you such a shitty deal, and Jim has an abundance of both. Please keep him in your prayers.

It sure does. My prayers for JSND and family continue. Thanks much, Weasel.

Posted by: Notorious BFD at March 09, 2025 07:09 PM (mH6SG)

19 10: Vic

Posted by: Puddleglum, drive by pew pew at March 09, 2025 07:09 PM (sAmhv)

20 Last week the Singer 1911s were mentioned, of which only 500 were made, making them a collector's Grail gun.
I spotted one on Gunbroker, in well used condition. Asking price is a mere $260,000 (two hundred sixty thousand dollars.)

Posted by: Idaho Spudboy at March 09, 2025 07:09 PM (Uh8P4)

21 Guess the gun, the car, and the absent friend.

https://tinyurl.com/5n7698dh
Posted by: Grump928(C) Happy birthday vic at March 09, 2025 07:03 PM

*dons hat*

*doffs hat respectfully*

*leaves hat off because does not look good in hats*

Posted by: RedMindBlueState at March 09, 2025 07:10 PM (Wnv9h)

22 Here's a question worth serious discussion.

With CBD all up in France, who thinks he will come back with some sort of shooting beret?

Posted by: Weasel at March 09, 2025 07:10 PM (LRYfP)

23 Last week the Singer 1911s were mentioned, of which only 500 were made, making them a collector's Grail gun.
I spotted one on Gunbroker, in well used condition. Asking price is a mere $260,000 (two hundred sixty thousand dollars.)
Posted by: Idaho Spudboy at March 09, 2025 07:09 PM

Wow. You could build a time machine for that much and go back and steal one.

Posted by: Grump928(C) at March 09, 2025 07:10 PM (jc0TO)

24 Prayers up for Jim SND. He was good enough to send me his copy of Bill Jordan's book for a very reasonable price after I expressed my desire on this thread to obtain a copy. A fine man. I wish I could meet him in person.

Posted by: That SOB Van Owen at March 09, 2025 07:10 PM (Hdixl)

25 If Jim gets to read this, we miss ya and are keeping you in our prayers.

Posted by: whig at March 09, 2025 07:11 PM (ctrM5)

26 Hey, RMBS. Sap is rising up here.
Posted by: RI Red at March 09, 2025 07:09 PM

Nice. Maple syrup and long range shooting. Even CBD would approve. Looking forward to the Far Northern NH MoMe.

Posted by: RedMindBlueState at March 09, 2025 07:11 PM (Wnv9h)

27 Jim SND, we appreciate the update. You are in my prayers daily. As is Herself SND. Life is grand, but also, so often, cruel.

Posted by: Dash my lace wigs! at March 09, 2025 07:11 PM (OX9vb)

28 So, I did spring for the SAR80. Be here in a week or so.

I need an intervention.

Posted by: Grump928(C) at March 09, 2025 07:12 PM (jc0TO)

29 Weasel, I do. It will be spiffy.

Posted by: Ben Had at March 09, 2025 07:12 PM (mB6WH)

30 With CBD all up in France, who thinks he will come back with some sort of shooting beret?
Posted by: Weasel
=======
A beret only dropped once but in excellent condition!

Posted by: whig at March 09, 2025 07:12 PM (ctrM5)

31 With CBD all up in France, who thinks he will come back with some sort of shooting beret?

And a pencil-thin mustache?

Posted by: Notorious BFD at March 09, 2025 07:12 PM (mH6SG)

32 Thanks for reposting JSND's message, Weasel.

Jim, prayers are continuing.

Posted by: RedMindBlueState at March 09, 2025 07:14 PM (Wnv9h)

33 Hey Ya'll, sorry I cannot hang tonight, out with family.

Jim SND, be well my friend, we are all there for you.

Posted by: Scuba_Dude at March 09, 2025 07:14 PM (0XVad)

34 So any help with a holster recommendation?

My EDC is a Sig P290 in an IWB from ttgunleather.com. I can wear it comfortably pretty much all day. Highly recommended.

Posted by: Oddbob at March 09, 2025 07:14 PM (/y8xj)

35 With CBD all up in France, who thinks he will come back with some sort of shooting beret?
Posted by: Weasel at March 09, 2025 07:10 PM

Raspberry. Definitely.

Posted by: RedMindBlueState at March 09, 2025 07:15 PM (Wnv9h)

36 A raspberry beret?

Posted by: Anna Puma at March 09, 2025 07:15 PM (i79Sq)

37 20 Last week the Singer 1911s were mentioned, of which only 500 were made, making them a collector's Grail gun.
I spotted one on Gunbroker, in well used condition. Asking price is a mere $260,000 (two hundred sixty thousand dollars.)
Posted by: Idaho Spudboy
========
Really expensive guns like that never really get to be appreciated much or even used by those that buy them.

So the utility of having a Singer would be merely to sell it and use the money for something else or wait for the value to appreciate to unload it to someone else at a higher price later.

Give me a shooter grade weapon rather than a perfect specimen every time that I do not mind taking out and firing. Guns, like other tools, are made to be used, handled, and appreciated in my opinion.

Posted by: whig at March 09, 2025 07:16 PM (ctrM5)

38 RMBS

Jinx!

Posted by: Anna Puma at March 09, 2025 07:16 PM (i79Sq)

39 Last week the Singer 1911s were mentioned, of which only 500 were made, making them a collector's Grail gun.
I spotted one on Gunbroker, in well used condition. Asking price is a mere $260,000 (two hundred sixty thousand dollars.)
Posted by: Idaho Spudboy at March 09, 2025 07:09 PM (Uh8P4)

That assumes you're looking at the real thing. There are probably more fake Singers than real ones in existence right now.

Posted by: Ed L at March 09, 2025 07:17 PM (AiJK3)

40 Give me a shooter grade weapon rather than a perfect specimen every time that I do not mind taking out and firing. Guns, like other tools, are made to be used, handled, and appreciated in my opinion.
Posted by: whig at March 09, 2025 07:16 PM

It's like buying a brand new pickup. You will be crying the first time you load it up with ciderblocks.

Posted by: Grump928(C) at March 09, 2025 07:18 PM (jc0TO)

41 With CBD all up in France, who thinks he will shoot a mime?

Posted by: Commissar of Plenty and Lysenkoism in Solidarity with the Struggle for festive little hats at March 09, 2025 07:18 PM (5Ju3w)

42 CBD, is going to need an emergency bottle of Hoppe's # 9 to aid with the gun withdrawal

Posted by: Ben Had at March 09, 2025 07:18 PM (mB6WH)

43 Hello party people (I am preparing for the TX MoMe #X). Thanks for the thread Weasel, and for reposting Jim's message. You are in our thoughts and prayers Jim, every day.

Posted by: Grateful - the range bag lady at March 09, 2025 07:18 PM (IQ6Gq)

44 Maybe CBD can persuade the Frogs to surrender again.

Posted by: Notorious BFD at March 09, 2025 07:18 PM (mH6SG)

45 If he did, would they mime at all?

Posted by: Anna Puma at March 09, 2025 07:18 PM (i79Sq)

Posted by: Marcel Marceau at March 09, 2025 07:18 PM (jc0TO)

47 That assumes you're looking at the real thing. There are probably more fake Singers than real ones in existence right now.

Not that it will ever be a real concern for me, but if that kind of $$$ is changing hands, there will be professional appraisals, escrow accounts, and binding written contracts.

Posted by: Oddbob at March 09, 2025 07:19 PM (/y8xj)

48 Give me a shooter grade weapon rather than a perfect specimen every time that I do not mind taking out and firing. Guns, like other tools, are made to be used, handled, and appreciated in my opinion.

+1000

Posted by: Notorious BFD at March 09, 2025 07:20 PM (mH6SG)

49 With CBD all up in France, who thinks he will come back with some sort of shooting beret?
Posted by: Weasel at March 09, 2025 07:10 PM (LRYfP)

I think he will come back and buy a .30 Super Carry, which is the magnum-ized version 7.65 French Long pistol cartridge. He can then cosplay as Dirty Henri, the rouge Parisian gendarme who plays by his own rules.

Posted by: Idaho Spudboy at March 09, 2025 07:20 PM (Uh8P4)

50 With CBD all up in France, who thinks he will shoot a mime?
Posted by: Commissar of Plenty and Lysenkoism in Solidarity with the Struggle for festive little hats at March 09, 2025 07:18 PM (5Ju3w)

He'd have to use a suppressor, or he might startle the other mimes.

Posted by: Hour of the Wolf at March 09, 2025 07:20 PM (VNX3d)

51 CBD could pick it up in a second hand store

Posted by: Skip i at March 09, 2025 07:21 PM (fwDg9)

52 One shoots to stop the threat, not to kill or to wound. Only someone who knows nothing about firearms thinks one can aim at a specific body part.

Posted by: Butch at March 09, 2025 07:21 PM (98xTj)

53 CBD post a picture of Sacre Coure on the food thread,. The place of John Wick's final shoot out.

Posted by: Ben Had at March 09, 2025 07:22 PM (mB6WH)

54 I think he will come back and buy a .30 Super Carry, which is the magnum-ized version 7.65 French Long pistol cartridge. He can then cosplay as Dirty Henri, the rouge Parisian gendarme who plays by his own rules.
Posted by: Idaho Spudboy at March 09, 2025 07:20 PM (Uh8P4)
----
I was thinking more like Inspector Clouseau

Posted by: Weasel at March 09, 2025 07:22 PM (LRYfP)

55 Good day at the range. The place was empty - complete opposite of the crowds last week.

Our targets were properly adjusted, watch size figured out, and other necessary incantations were said. Grip more comfortable and results more consistent. Beat up the middle of the targets a bit. Have some good things to build with going forward. Hooray!

Posted by: TRex at March 09, 2025 07:22 PM (IQ6Gq)

56 It's a safe bet that fate will never put a Singer 1911 into my hands. That's a good thing, because the temptation to have "As ye sew, so shall ye reap" engraved onto it would be well-nigh irresistible.

Posted by: Splunge at March 09, 2025 07:22 PM (afZ9r)

57 CBD could pick it up in a second hand store

* blows raspberry *

Posted by: Unpronounceable Symbol at March 09, 2025 07:23 PM (/y8xj)

58 I was thinking more like Inspector Clouseau

But who would play Kato?

Posted by: Anna Puma at March 09, 2025 07:23 PM (i79Sq)

59 That assumes you're looking at the real thing. There are probably more fake Singers than real ones in existence right now.
Posted by: Ed L at March 09, 2025 07:17 PM (AiJK3)

"Only 500 Singers were made, and only 1500 are known to exist."

Posted by: Idaho Spudboy at March 09, 2025 07:23 PM (Uh8P4)

60 Could CBD be out prospecting for forgotten caches of weapons the SOE airdropped into France in WWII? I've read about discoveries of hidden Thompsons, Stens, 1911s, and .38 revolvers turning up from time to time in certain parts of France.

Posted by: Ed L at March 09, 2025 07:23 PM (AiJK3)

61 RMBS

Jinx!
Posted by: Anna Puma at March 09, 2025 07:16 PM

*fistbump*

Hordemind. Beautiful and terrible.

Posted by: RedMindBlueState at March 09, 2025 07:23 PM (Wnv9h)

62 Watching TV. Oh Magic Gun, Unlock Any Locked Thing I Shoot With Thee.

Posted by: Commissar of Plenty and Lysenkoism in Solidarity with the Struggle for festive little hats at March 09, 2025 07:24 PM (5Ju3w)

63 34 So any help with a holster recommendation?

--------

I gave up with holsters that were either IWB or OWB. None were comfortable or adequately concealable in most circumstances. (I usually wear a two-piece suit to work.)

I settled on a Kydex holster that I can use IWB rarely when needed but usually only guards the trigger of my Glock 43 when I carry it in my over-the-shoulder messenger bag (shut up) or when I carry it in a strapped canvas side-pouch while shopping or whatever.

It has been a workable compromise for me.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero43) at March 09, 2025 07:24 PM (hyRup)

64 CBD would probably find a Liberator covered in 80 year old maple syrup.

Posted by: Anna Puma at March 09, 2025 07:25 PM (i79Sq)

65 Weasel,

I sent you a non-gub thread related email. Not urgent, but please read it when you have a break of free time.

Posted by: Pillage Idiot at March 09, 2025 07:26 PM (Q4Dc6)

66 The ONLY positive aspect of stealing an hour of my precious sleep is that the range this morning was empty. Both upon arrival and when we departed. We were one of two-four lanes being used in our range room the entire time we were there.
I am happy to experience and report that my friend consistency returned. Seriously, my major issue at this time is shooting too quickly. So, I started counting 1-2 -3 and then firing, and voila (for CBD!) it went where it was intended to go. Still those pesty ones that stray off the 3inch target, but I'm getting a better handle on it. Friday, moving the targets our further and see what that does.

Posted by: Grateful - the range bag lady at March 09, 2025 07:26 PM (IQ6Gq)

67 In detective novels, the suit has always been tailored or altered to help conceal the carried pistol.

But the gay messenger bag thing works, too.

Posted by: Splunge at March 09, 2025 07:26 PM (afZ9r)

68 I think he will come back and buy a .30 Super Carry, which is the magnum-ized version 7.65 French Long pistol cartridge. He can then cosplay as Dirty Henri, the rouge Parisian gendarme who plays by his own rules.
Posted by: Idaho Spudboy at March 09, 2025 07:20 PM (Uh8P4)

"Je sais ce que tu penses, Punk."

(Internet translator results, so apologies if wrong)

Posted by: Vanya at March 09, 2025 07:27 PM (g1h/9)

69 ON appendix holsters, a lot depends on whether you want leather, kydex, or some combo of the two. Then there is Inside the Waste Band and Outside the Waste Band (IWB, or OWB).

If carry conditions are steamy, leather will absorb sweat, etc. that can mar a finish. Kydex has its own problems which is a) no comfort which you definitely want in inside the waistband appendix carry and b) unless the finish of the firearm is something like stainless, nitrided steel (Glocks, Smith and Wesson, etc.) it can mar a painted or traditionally blued firearm finish over time.

A combo leather outside with kydex liner holster would be recommended if you are wearing it inside the waste band in appendix carry.

The last are something like a Sneaky Pete holster that looks like some data device/large/medic/cell phone case but can be very quick to employ and then there are fanny packs with interior gun holsters. Since Israel is a tourist country, my guess is both are often seen which might make for good cover without "scaring the horses.'

Good brands I have used over the years are Bianchi, Milt Sparks, Galco, and DeSantis. Combo/Kydex, I prefer Safariland and a Viridian holster light/laser.

Posted by: whig at March 09, 2025 07:27 PM (ctrM5)

70 CBD would probably find a Liberator covered in 80 year old maple syrup.
Posted by: Anna Puma at March 09, 2025 07:25 PM (i79Sq)

Under a stack of waffles.

Posted by: Hour of the Wolf at March 09, 2025 07:27 PM (VNX3d)

71 22 Here's a question worth serious discussion.

With CBD all up in France, who thinks he will come back with some sort of shooting beret?

Posted by: Weasel at March 09, 2025 07:10 PM

I was thinking he should probably sneak over to Geneva.

Surely, a VERY expensive Swiss watch, with exactly the right size face, would greatly improve CBD's shooting skills?

Posted by: Pillage Idiot at March 09, 2025 07:29 PM (Q4Dc6)

72 You're in my prayers, JSND.

Posted by: jsg at March 09, 2025 07:29 PM (lW2qf)

73 Could CBD be out prospecting for forgotten caches of weapons the SOE airdropped into France in WWII? I've read about discoveries of hidden Thompsons, Stens, 1911s, and .38 revolvers turning up from time to time in certain parts of France.
Posted by: Ed L at March 09, 2025 07:23 PM (AiJK3)

When the Russians finally pushed the Ukrainians out of the fortress city of Bahkmut two years ago, there was a video taken in a bunker where cases of WWII Thompsons, looking like new in the box, were seen in the background.

Posted by: Idaho Spudboy at March 09, 2025 07:29 PM (Uh8P4)

74
Under a stack of waffles.
Posted by: Hour of the Wolf at March 09, 2025 07:27 PM (VNX3d)
----
Crepes?

Posted by: Weasel at March 09, 2025 07:31 PM (LRYfP)

75 Posted by: Pillage Idiot at March 09, 2025 07:29 PM (Q4Dc6)
----
You're right! NOW he goes!

Posted by: Weasel at March 09, 2025 07:32 PM (LRYfP)

76 It's like buying a brand new pickup. You will be crying the first time you load it up with ciderblocks.
Posted by: Grump928(C)
===========
Exactly. I also find that new or even almost new but put up, firearm actions are often stiff and really need to be exercised by live fire. I don't trust a firearm for self defense purposes that I have not fired at least 500 range rounds through and about 100 self defense rounds of my chosen load of the moment.

One of the worst Mauser actions I have ever worked brand new despite excellent workmanship was the M48 Yugo which is one of the last new model bolt rifles issued by an Army. Bought a used one, much smoother action despite the finish not being perfect.

Posted by: whig at March 09, 2025 07:32 PM (ctrM5)

77 … is certainly unique.
Hey, RMBS. Sap is rising up here.

Posted by: RI Red at March 09, 2025 07:09 PM

I can't remember - what caliber and powder load are you supposed to shoot the sugar maple with when you are having difficulties inserting the spile?

Posted by: Pillage Idiot at March 09, 2025 07:33 PM (Q4Dc6)

78 When the Russians finally pushed the Ukrainians out of the fortress city of Bahkmut two years ago, there was a video taken in a bunker where cases of WWII Thompsons, looking like new in the box, were seen in the background.
Posted by: Idaho Spudboy at March 09, 2025 07:29 PM (Uh8P4)

Was there any .45 ACP to be found?

Posted by: Vanya at March 09, 2025 07:33 PM (g1h/9)

79 67 In detective novels, the suit has always been tailored or altered to help conceal the carried pistol.

But the gay messenger bag thing works, too.
Posted by: Splunge

Snubbies you can get away with in pocket carry if you must. 1911s, pretty much a shoulder holster.

Some of the early turn of the century semi auto firearms are excellent to such as JWB's mini masterpieces like the 1903/08 Colts or his not so impressive Browning in 25 ACP (gun is fine, cartridge not so much).

Posted by: whig at March 09, 2025 07:34 PM (ctrM5)

80 One of the worst Mauser actions I have ever worked brand new despite excellent workmanship was the M48 Yugo which is one of the last new model bolt rifles issued by an Army. Bought a used one, much smoother action despite the finish not being perfect.
Posted by: whig at March 09, 2025 07:32 PM

Best Mauser action I ever worked was my dad's 1909 Argentine. Holy shitballs but that thing was as smooth as greased glass.

Posted by: RedMindBlueState at March 09, 2025 07:35 PM (Wnv9h)

81 I was thinking he should probably sneak over to Geneva.

Surely, a VERY expensive Swiss watch, with exactly the right size face, would greatly improve CBD's shooting skills?
Posted by: Pillage Idiot
=====
A Swiss Sig P210 would do better.

Posted by: whig at March 09, 2025 07:36 PM (ctrM5)

82 Set the phase transitions for the heart of the Sun.

Posted by: SFGoth at March 09, 2025 07:36 PM (KAi1n)

83 But the gay messenger bag thing works, too.
Posted by: Splunge

--------

LOL

And, GFY

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero43) at March 09, 2025 07:38 PM (hyRup)

84 🙂

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero43) at March 09, 2025 07:38 PM (hyRup)

85 The killer in SC who was executed by firing squad Friday was put down with a .308, using Winchester 110-grain TAP Urban ammunition

https://tinyurl.com/8ujj2n7t

Posted by: jsg at March 09, 2025 07:38 PM (lW2qf)

86 The sun appears to be having an excellent outing at the range today.

MUCH more sunlight is shooting though the window and landing on my computer screen than any of the other gub threads in 2025!

Posted by: Pillage Idiot at March 09, 2025 07:40 PM (Q4Dc6)

87 Best Mauser action I ever worked was my dad's 1909 Argentine. Holy shitballs but that thing was as smooth as greased glass.

Posted by: RedMindBlueState at March 09, 2025 07:35 PM (Wnv9h)

I have a Krag rifle and carbine. Action is slick as snot.

Posted by: javems at March 09, 2025 07:40 PM (bHTuV)

88
LOL

And, GFY
Posted by: Cicero (@cicero43) at March 09, 2025 07:38 PM (hyRup)

I would have been really disappointed if you had not said that.

Posted by: Splunge at March 09, 2025 07:41 PM (afZ9r)

89 All this Parisian talk...

https://tensor.art/u/727481333235843246

Posted by: Anna Puma at March 09, 2025 07:42 PM (i79Sq)

90 Was there any .45 ACP to be found?
Posted by: Vanya at March 09, 2025 07:33 PM (g1h/9)

There probably wasn't any in the city, which would explain why they were left in the crates.

Posted by: Idaho Spudboy at March 09, 2025 07:42 PM (Uh8P4)

91 The range is very empty after the latest culling. All those sows were pretty close to dropping so about another month and it will be open season on sucklings.

Posted by: Ben Had at March 09, 2025 07:42 PM (mB6WH)

92 Guns!

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, Buy ammo at March 09, 2025 07:42 PM (xcxpd)

93 In the interest of science, I just measured a piece of bread - roughly, 4”x4”.
That would be equivalent to a 1 MOA target at 400 yards.
I will be introducing a new challenge at the Far Northern New Hampshire Mini MoMe - the Target’ de pain grille francais.

Posted by: RI Red at March 09, 2025 07:42 PM (62FZE)

94 Best Mauser action I ever worked was my dad's 1909 Argentine. Holy shitballs but that thing was as smooth as greased glass.
Posted by: RedMindBlueState
=========
Case hardened. Mausers have a hard heat treated outer shell over a softer center and they continued with that design despite newer steels being available until the end. Part of it is for safety, case hardened heat treatment means that if an overcharge is fired, the usual result is lug setback.

That is the danger of the Springfield 03's that had poorly monitored heat treatment (and quite a few poorly made Mausers) when the heat treatment carburizes the entire depth of the receiver. It then becomes very strong, but like glass, prone to shatter from a shock.

US changed to nickel steel like the Brits had done way back for the SMLE in 1905 or something. Additional margin for error in heat treatment and overcharged/ruptured cartridge gas release.

Posted by: whig at March 09, 2025 07:43 PM (ctrM5)

95 In the interest of science, I just measured a piece of bread - roughly, 4”x4”.
That would be equivalent to a 1 MOA target at 400 yards.
I will be introducing a new challenge at the Far Northern New Hampshire Mini MoMe - the Target’ de pain grille francais.
**********
what, no fromage? I will protest and go on strike (trying to stay with the French theme)

Posted by: Grateful - the range bag lady at March 09, 2025 07:45 PM (IQ6Gq)

96 In the interest of science, I just measured a piece of bread - roughly, 4”x4”.
That would be equivalent to a 1 MOA target at 400 yards.
I will be introducing a new challenge at the Far Northern New Hampshire Mini MoMe - the Target’ de pain grille francais.
**********
what, no fromage? I will protest and go on strike (trying to stay with the French theme)
Posted by: Grateful - the range bag lady at March 09, 2025 07:45 PM (IQ6Gq)

Are you going to try to empty the French Strategic Baguette Reserve?

Posted by: Hour of the Wolf at March 09, 2025 07:45 PM (VNX3d)

97 Hello Morons,
Been visiting the range as usual. I've been training a lot more with my PSA Micro-Dagger (basically a Glock 48/43x). So far, very functional, small, holds 15 rounds despite the small size. It does require a firm grip but it's working better the more I train with it. It might make the cut for regular EDC and not just my church gun.
Also did some drills with my CZ P-07, which is very accurate for me, though I'm a bit slower with it due to the DA/SA trigger. One thing I love dearly about the P-07 is the Kadet adapter which lets me shoot .22 with the same grip and trigger. Is very nice.

I would dearly love a Glock 25 but it doesn't seem to be in the cards for me. Getting magazines is a serious problem of course being in WA state. Though I have heard that normal G19 mags would work...may need to test that next week....

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, Buy ammo at March 09, 2025 07:45 PM (xcxpd)

98 Fromage?

At the current price of ammo, that is an expensive way to make Swiss cheese.

Posted by: Anna Puma at March 09, 2025 07:46 PM (i79Sq)

99 I have a Krag rifle and carbine. Action is slick as snot.
Posted by: javems

Krag is helped by it only having a single locking lug plus the carbon steel heat treatment mentioned above. It also has a split bridge over the receiver end. Fortunately relatively few people ever tried much to wildcat the Krag unlike the Mauser.

The Krag's rimmed case is there for safety as well if the cartridge separates and that is why it is actually a better design than the Springfield 03 in that respect. Bolt/firing pin/striker combo plus the Krag 1901 sights became some of the features that Springfield Arsenal argued made the 03 different from a Mauser 98 when challenged for violating Mauser's patents. US govt lost the infringement lawsuit and had to pay royalties to Mauser over it.

Posted by: whig at March 09, 2025 07:47 PM (ctrM5)

100 100!

Posted by: TRex at March 09, 2025 07:47 PM (IQ6Gq)

101 Well TRex, you and S'puppy are on the mark today!

Posted by: Grateful - the range bag lady at March 09, 2025 07:48 PM (IQ6Gq)

102 In the interest of science, I just measured a piece of bread - roughly, 4”x4”.
That would be equivalent to a 1 MOA target at 400 yards.
I will be introducing a new challenge at the Far Northern New Hampshire Mini MoMe - the Target’ de pain grille francais.
Posted by: RI Red at March 09, 2025 07:42 PM

To be precise, 1 MOA at 400 yards = 4.188".

Given Mr. Dildo's rumoured metrification, you might consider MILs, rather than MOAs.

Posted by: Wesley Crusher at March 09, 2025 07:48 PM (a3Q+t)

103 Shut up Wesley

Posted by: Anna Puma at March 09, 2025 07:49 PM (i79Sq)

104 31 With CBD all up in France, who thinks he will come back with some sort of shooting beret?

And a pencil-thin mustache?
Posted by: Notorious BFD

Heh.

Posted by: nurse ratched at March 09, 2025 07:49 PM (mT+6a)

105 Howdy and thanks, Weasel! Hello to all you other Hordelings, too!

Posted by: Doof at March 09, 2025 07:49 PM (7j75v)

106 101 Well TRex, you and S'puppy are on the mark today!
Posted by: Grateful - the range bag lady at March 09, 2025 07:48 PM (IQ6Gq)

A well-zeroed keyboard will do that for you, ma'am! Hope y'all are well.

Posted by: Schnorflepuppy - OT but harmless at March 09, 2025 07:50 PM (v23vE)

107 91 The range is very empty after the latest culling. All those sows were pretty close to dropping so about another month and it will be open season on sucklings.

Posted by: Ben Had at March 09, 2025 07:42 PM

Nice range report!

Posted by: Pillage Idiot at March 09, 2025 07:50 PM (Q4Dc6)

108 Thank you, Anna!

Posted by: RI Red at March 09, 2025 07:52 PM (62FZE)

109 And hey Jim, so sorry to hear of your troubles. Good to hear the VA stood up.

Posted by: javems at March 09, 2025 07:52 PM (bHTuV)

110 I remember the Sig 210, which I craved, selling for about $400 in the early 70s. I just could not slap the lanyard at that price.
I got an email a few days ago advertising police trade-in P210s for a mere $2499 American.
I have made many regrettable decisions, because I can't afford it right now...maybe later!

Posted by: waepnedmann at March 09, 2025 07:52 PM (lMpTF)

111 I would dearly love a Glock 25 but it doesn't seem to be in the cards for me. Getting magazines is a serious problem of course being in WA state. Though I have heard that normal G19 mags would work...may need to test that next week....
Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards
======
Sorry for y'all in WA State. Went from a great gun law state to an unfree state pretty quickly due to cheat by mail voting. Glad that Utah is rolling back its generalized vote by mail as no state that has adopted it keeps its freedom for more than a decade after adopting it.

Posted by: whig at March 09, 2025 07:53 PM (ctrM5)

112 Good evening gub threaders and all the ships at sea!

Posted by: blaster - Fortis Fortuna Adiuvat at March 09, 2025 07:54 PM (QfvaV)

113 110 I remember the Sig 210, which I craved, selling for about $400 in the early 70s. I just could not slap the lanyard at that price.
I got an email a few days ago advertising police trade-in P210s for a mere $2499 American.
I have made many regrettable decisions, because I can't afford it right now...maybe later!
Posted by: waepnedmann
=========
That is priced about the same as a run of the mill Luger nowadays. Interesting.

Posted by: whig at March 09, 2025 07:54 PM (ctrM5)

114 There seems to be low energy around guns now. The left and the right aren't making an issue of it. Maybe an incident will change things.

Posted by: EP at March 09, 2025 07:55 PM (nbNs7)

115 Sorry for y'all in WA State. Went from a great gun law state to an unfree state pretty quickly due to cheat by mail voting. Glad that Utah is rolling back its generalized vote by mail as no state that has adopted it keeps its freedom for more than a decade after adopting it.
Posted by: whig at March 09, 2025 07:53 PM (ctrM5)

Yeah, the progs are digging in here while getting pushed back in other states.

Our only reasonable remedy is something at the Federal level invalidating our bullshit laws. But I have low expectations there. Our local SC silk robe thugs are very willing to ignore our Constitution in pursuit of ideological goals.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, Buy ammo at March 09, 2025 07:55 PM (xcxpd)

116 I lied, dammit. Went out to feed the colt outside and there was a 350lb+ boar. They hit the trees before I could get armed.

Posted by: Ben Had at March 09, 2025 07:55 PM (mB6WH)

117 (nbNs7)

????k

Posted by: Anna Puma at March 09, 2025 07:56 PM (i79Sq)

118 In the new Reacher series the armorers did a whole homage to Die Hard in one episode. HK P7, Steyr Sug, stainless Beretta 92....

Posted by: blaster - Fortis Fortuna Adiuvat at March 09, 2025 07:56 PM (QfvaV)

119 Perhaps CBD will become enlightened during his Parisian sojourn, and return a devotee of the 10.4×33mmR.

Posted by: Duncanthrax at March 09, 2025 07:56 PM (a3Q+t)

120 350lb bore?

Why is Jerry Nadler pestering you?

Posted by: Anna Puma at March 09, 2025 07:57 PM (i79Sq)

121 Sig Sauer has ended the P320.

The talk about ND when dropped has always seemed like horseshit to me.

Posted by: BourbonChicken at March 09, 2025 07:57 PM (lhenN)

122 I lied, dammit. Went out to feed the colt outside and there was a 350lb+ boar. They hit the trees before I could get armed.
Posted by: Ben Had at March 09, 2025 07:55 PM

Hae ye no sling, lass?

Posted by: Duncanthrax at March 09, 2025 07:58 PM (a3Q+t)

123 116 I lied, dammit. Went out to feed the colt outside and there was a 350lb+ boar. They hit the trees before I could get armed.
Posted by: Ben Had at March 09, 2025 07:55 PM (mB6WH)

Ben Had, I am disappoint. You “went out” and you were unarmed?
And in Texas?

Posted by: RI Red at March 09, 2025 07:58 PM (62FZE)

124 121 Sig Sauer has ended the P320.

The talk about ND when dropped has always seemed like horseshit to me.
Posted by: BourbonChicken at March 09, 2025 07:57 PM (lhenN)

I've seen it happen.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, Buy ammo at March 09, 2025 07:58 PM (xcxpd)

125 Also in Reacher, and I think this is probably from Lee Childs or the person writing under that name, there was a gunfight, and one of the bad guys saw that the other people shooting had Glock 26 Gen 3's, and the government issues those, and so they had to be Feds!

Uh, no.

Posted by: blaster - Fortis Fortuna Adiuvat at March 09, 2025 07:58 PM (QfvaV)

126 116 I lied, dammit. Went out to feed the colt outside and there was a 350lb+ boar. They hit the trees before I could get armed.

Posted by: Ben Had at March 09, 2025 07:55 PM

Dang it!

That means the hogs are developing situational awareness to extreme danger.

Posted by: Pillage Idiot at March 09, 2025 07:59 PM (Q4Dc6)

127 Late.

And, alas, no range time this weekend. Weather refused to cooperate. Who knew wind and rain would keep one from their appointed range trip?

Also, I've reached the point where I have to slow down a bit. The barrel on the 06 is on its last legs. I'm to the stage once the new barrel shows up I'll have to change it immediately. Because a new barrel means load development, I much prefer not to have a ton of ammo on hand I'll need to take apart.

But, I did do some gun related stuff and mount a new vise in anticipation of the new barrel arriving.

Posted by: blake - semi lurker in marginal standing (tT6L1) at March 09, 2025 07:59 PM (tT6L1)

128 Posted by: Doof at March 09, 2025 07:49 PM

Doof!

Posted by: RedMindBlueState at March 09, 2025 07:59 PM (Wnv9h)

129 RI Red, I confess to my stupidity. Won't happen again.

Posted by: Ben Had at March 09, 2025 08:00 PM (mB6WH)

130 I expect CBD to show up wearing a raspberry beret.

Posted by: blake - semi lurker in marginal standing (tT6L1) at March 09, 2025 08:01 PM (tT6L1)

131 Javems,
I dearly love Krags as the workmanship is exquisite and have several models -a 94,96, and 98 but alas no carbine models.

Watch out for a gunsmith mod where they ground the bolt lug so that the bolt handle would engage as another locking lug. Unless they reheat treated the bolt where they ground it, the bolt lug bearing surface is the softer steel center grinding against the lug recess in the receiver. Not good. There were some new in box Krag bolt bodies if you can believe that even floating around recently. Last time I bought a replacement Krag bolt body was from a guy in Florida--think he goes by Grampa's Gun Shop and has quite a few Krag parts. As promised, it was new in box and made about 1907-08.

Army tried to supercharge the Krag round slightly before the 1903 became prevalent. Resulted in a lot of bolt lugs being damage or even sheared off that necessitated a new run of Krag bolt bodies to replace damaged ones.

Posted by: whig at March 09, 2025 08:01 PM (ctrM5)

132 Just watched the first season of Reacher.Lots of shooty goodness. And Mrs Red loved it!

Posted by: RI Red at March 09, 2025 08:02 PM (62FZE)

133 Pillage Idiot, my dog scared them off. They were well within the .357 range.

Posted by: Ben Had at March 09, 2025 08:02 PM (mB6WH)

134 Also in Reacher, and I think this is probably from Lee Childs or the person writing under that name, there was a gunfight, and one of the bad guys saw that the other people shooting had Glock 26 Gen 3's, and the government issues those, and so they had to be Feds!

Uh, no.
Posted by: blaster - Fortis Fortuna Adiuvat at March 09, 2025 07:58 PM (QfvaV)

I have a hard time expressing my contempt for pothead Lee Child and his "research". His success is a good indicator that bullshit sells, sadly.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, Buy ammo at March 09, 2025 08:03 PM (xcxpd)

135 Our only reasonable remedy is something at the Federal level invalidating our bullshit laws. But I have low expectations there. Our local SC silk robe thugs are very willing to ignore our Constitution in pursuit of ideological goals.
Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards
=======
May Scotus relieve your pain soon. Courts seem to be moving in some circuits using Bruen properly like the 3rd Circuit extending 2A protections to 18-20 year olds.

Posted by: whig at March 09, 2025 08:03 PM (ctrM5)

136 Dinner. BIAB

Posted by: RI Red at March 09, 2025 08:03 PM (62FZE)

137 Thanks again for the thread, weasel!

Posted by: blake - semi lurker in marginal standing (tT6L1) at March 09, 2025 08:03 PM (tT6L1)

138 I've seen it happen.
Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards
--------
Circumstances if you can elaborate? Competition?

Posted by: whig at March 09, 2025 08:04 PM (ctrM5)

139 Gun control has been a losing issue for Democrats generally. Clinton realized this. Obama was able to dance around and survive some way.

Posted by: EP at March 09, 2025 08:04 PM (nbNs7)

140 I once used the regular Hoppes 9 inside the bore of my favorite pistol. After going through about 200 rounds rather quickly, it smoked like a large candle. The gray ribbon of smoke went up, and without a though I pointed at the ceiling and blew it out. I don't know what western I was imitating, but it felt really cool.

Posted by: BourbonChicken at March 09, 2025 08:05 PM (lhenN)

141 Highway Patrol must have had a major budget increase to add a helicopter to the sweet cop cars.

The revolvers must have been the Colt Infinity models, though - I counted at least 17 shots between the cop and the bad guy, and nobody bothered to reload.

Posted by: Schnorflepuppy - OT but harmless at March 09, 2025 08:06 PM (v23vE)

142 133 Pillage Idiot, my dog scared them off. They were well within the .357 range.

Posted by: Ben Had at March 09, 2025 08:02 PM

Time for a Great Pyrenees or a Bull Mastiff.

I believe both of those breeds come in a caliber that starts with a "4".

Posted by: Pillage Idiot at March 09, 2025 08:06 PM (Q4Dc6)

143 lso in Reacher, and I think this is probably from Lee Childs or the person writing under that name, there was a gunfight, and one of the bad guys saw that the other people shooting had Glock 26 Gen 3's, and the government issues those, and so they had to be Feds!

I suspect that for way too many authors, Glock is just a synonym for pistol but they use the brand name because they think it sounds "authentic."

Posted by: Unpronounceable Symbol at March 09, 2025 08:07 PM (/y8xj)

144 116 I lied, dammit. Went out to feed the colt outside and there was a 350lb+ boar. They hit the trees before I could get armed.
Posted by: Ben Had at March 09, 2025 07:55 PM (mB6WH)
Ben Had, you know how much we care about you, so go armed at all times!

Posted by: Eromero at March 09, 2025 08:07 PM (LHPAg)

145 I have to overlook most of the gun related stuff in movies and tv shows. Fortunately, someone seems to have gotten the word to various producers/directs to portray a bit of trigger discipline.

However, the one thing the entertainment industry cannot seem to let go of is the silencer myth.

Posted by: blake - semi lurker in marginal standing (tT6L1) at March 09, 2025 08:08 PM (tT6L1)

146 /sock of questionable royalty

Posted by: Oddbob at March 09, 2025 08:08 PM (/y8xj)

147 Pillage Idiot, my Ibizan hound will snatch a suckling pig in a heartbeat.

Posted by: Ben Had at March 09, 2025 08:09 PM (mB6WH)

148 My further saga in health care affecting being able to shoot is that my right shoulder joint is being attacked by my inflammatory arthritis.

So, I may have to learn to shoot left handed for shoulder fired. Probably difficult to relearn how to use a bolt thataway but if I keep the loads down to lead bullet plinking rounds, I might can manage to fire a couple of shots. My carpal tunnel surgery on my right arm is about healed along with the cubital release in the elbow so I might have to shoot handguns with my right and rifles/shotties with my left shoulder. Confusing and bumfuzzling.

Mick and the Rolling Stones had it right, "What a drag it is getting old."

Posted by: whig at March 09, 2025 08:09 PM (ctrM5)

149 145 I have to overlook most of the gun related stuff in movies and tv shows. Fortunately, someone seems to have gotten the word to various producers/directs to portray a bit of trigger discipline.

However, the one thing the entertainment industry cannot seem to let go of is the silencer myth.

Posted by: blake
=======
We drive every day with mufflers/silencers all around us on them there auto thingies.

Not silent in the least, just less loud.

Posted by: whig at March 09, 2025 08:10 PM (ctrM5)

150 Robert Stanford Tuck, ace RAF fighter pilot in World War II, had a habit of going to the cinema before the war and counting how many shots each person fired in a Western.

Posted by: Anna Puma at March 09, 2025 08:11 PM (i79Sq)

151 147 Pillage Idiot, my Ibizan hound will snatch a suckling pig in a heartbeat.

Posted by: Ben Had at March 09, 2025 08:09 PM

Nice!

Does the hound bring them back to you to turn into tasty bacon bits?

Posted by: Pillage Idiot at March 09, 2025 08:11 PM (Q4Dc6)

152 Eromero. I go a hundred feet to lock the gate armed but I got lazy and went from barn to barn not thinking.

Posted by: Ben Had at March 09, 2025 08:11 PM (mB6WH)

153 If Jim gets to read this, we miss ya and are keeping you in our prayers.
Posted by: whig

what Whig said!

Posted by: AZ deplorable moron at March 09, 2025 08:12 PM (Owkv7)

154 Our daily prayers continue for Jim SND and family. His courage in the face of such turmoil is inspiring.

Posted by: JTB at March 09, 2025 08:12 PM (yTvNw)

155 140 I once used the regular Hoppes 9 inside the bore of my favorite pistol. After going through about 200 rounds rather quickly, it smoked like a large candle. The gray ribbon of smoke went up, and without a though I pointed at the ceiling and blew it out. I don't know what western I was imitating, but it felt really cool.
Posted by: BourbonChicken
========
Amusing story.

Posted by: whig at March 09, 2025 08:12 PM (ctrM5)

156 Pillage Idiot, yes he does !

Posted by: Ben Had at March 09, 2025 08:12 PM (mB6WH)

157 Ben,

Just looked up your Ibizan.

They look FAST!

Posted by: Pillage Idiot at March 09, 2025 08:13 PM (Q4Dc6)

158 I think it was just last weeks gubthread where I talked about spring cleaning for the blaster laager - broke out the snorkel gear and went to cleaning.

I ordered some MTM pieces, some from MTM direct and some from Amazon. For many things MTM direct charges a lot less than Amazon for the item but then you have to pay shipping - however, spend more than $100 the shipping is free ninety-nine!

I did end up doing what GWB had said he had done which is get the tray for 5 mini cans and then get 5 different color cans - so 9mm goes in blue and .45 in tan and .223 in green and .308 in black and .22LR in orange.

And I got some larger crates for static storage. I have one box with about 400 rds of .308 and 11-1200 .223. It has some heft.

Also got some of their P-100 boxes which hold 100 rds of pistol cartridges, I got 2 ea in 9mm and .45. I could have printed containers (and I have) but these are cheap, convenient, and good quality.

I had a couple of smaller crates already and one holds all my 12 gauge. The other has a lot of pistols that I don't currently have a good storage solution for - a larger safe with pistol pockets on the door is in the future, I think.

Posted by: blaster - Fortis Fortuna Adiuvat at March 09, 2025 08:13 PM (QfvaV)

159 huh.
shoulda bought that Union Switch & Signal 1911 I saw many years ago. $800 as I recall; more than I had in my pocket that day.

woulda, coulda, shoulda; the 3 imps that torment us, right?

Posted by: sock_rat_eez at March 09, 2025 08:14 PM (RP0h0)

160 AZ deplorable! Good to see you in a grey box. Think of you frequently, prayers are up for you, too

Posted by: Grateful - the range bag lady at March 09, 2025 08:14 PM (IQ6Gq)

161 AZdeplorable., there you are!

Posted by: Ben Had at March 09, 2025 08:14 PM (mB6WH)

162 If Jim gets to read this, we miss ya and are keeping you in our prayers.
Posted by: whig

what Whig said!
Posted by: AZ deplorable moron at March 09, 2025 08:12 PM (Owkv7)

Agreed!

Also, let Herself SND know that, even with the buxom aide, you'll only wear Hoppes #9 for her.

Posted by: Hour of the Wolf at March 09, 2025 08:14 PM (VNX3d)

163 I suspect that for way too many authors, Glock is just a synonym for pistol but they use the brand name because they think it sounds "authentic."
Posted by: Unpronounceable Symbol

There is a humorous meme out there that shows the different handgun silhouettes that reporters all call Glocks. Another one is where all these different long guns are called Assault rifles (in days of yore--AK's back in the day). Firearm ignorance amid the chattering and journalist class is endemic and that is because they are city folks most often.

Posted by: whig at March 09, 2025 08:15 PM (ctrM5)

164 Shooting at the Legs
Good idea or retarded?
===

Depends...

Are you a debt collector for organized crime?
Want your guy to have another chance to pay up?
If yes and yes, then the leg is good.

Are you a designated marksman working an Antifa riot discouraging their leadership?
Them a 22 would help persuade them to go elsewhere (rumor is that Israel used to use that).

Posted by: Itinerant Alley Butcher at March 09, 2025 08:15 PM (/lPRQ)

165 Pillage Idiot, I have a story to tell you in October about how fast he is.

Posted by: Ben Had at March 09, 2025 08:16 PM (mB6WH)

166 Forgot to mention that this week's Highway Patrol features the lovely and talented Barbara Eden. She doesn't get to shoot the Colt Infinity revolvers, sadly.

Posted by: Schnorflepuppy - OT but harmless at March 09, 2025 08:19 PM (v23vE)

167 I suspect that for way too many authors, Glock is just a synonym for pistol but they use the brand name because they think it sounds "authentic."
Posted by: Unpronounceable Symbol

There is a humorous meme out there that shows the different handgun silhouettes that reporters all call Glocks. Another one is where all these different long guns are called Assault rifles (in days of yore--AK's back in the day). Firearm ignorance amid the chattering and journalist class is endemic and that is because they are city folks most often.
Posted by: whig

Too put a positive spin on it, "Glock" is like "Kleenex", or "Coke" for you guys down south. Fan Bois should appreciate the universal recognization.

Posted by: Itinerant Alley Butcher at March 09, 2025 08:19 PM (/lPRQ)

168 I prefer to use Uncle Sam's storage containers for bulk ammo storage. I like MTM products and have a few for range use but for bulk ammo storage I use Uncle Sam's discards because a) steel, b) you can actually get locks for them converting them into locking storage, and c) rubber sealed.

One advantage though to the MTM storage is that you can buy basically stacking racks of the stuff and add layers. You can do that with Uncle Sam's discard ammo storage containers but the handle tends to bollix stacking more than 3-4 containers high without some sort of kludge.

Posted by: whig at March 09, 2025 08:20 PM (ctrM5)

169 shoulda bought that Union Switch & Signal 1911 I saw many years ago. $800 as I recall; more than I had in my pocket that day.

woulda, coulda, shoulda; the 3 imps that torment us, right?
Posted by: sock_rat_eez at March 09, 2025 08:14 PM (RP0h0)

US&S 1911A1s are desirable today because of their relative scarcity (about 55,000 made) and their "Du-Lite" finish. High condition examples can break the five figure barrier.

Posted by: Ed L at March 09, 2025 08:20 PM (AiJK3)

170 165 Pillage Idiot, I have a story to tell you in October about how fast he is.

Posted by: Ben Had at March 09, 2025 08:16 PM

I am already chilling the beers for the next TXMoMe for just that reason!

Posted by: Pillage Idiot at March 09, 2025 08:20 PM (Q4Dc6)

171 Obama was the last big figure when the mainstream media pertained. Then came Trump and the ten year period that ushered in the new media. Obama looks anachronistic in comparison. The Democrats are still reeling from that because Obama was supposed to be the epitome of cool, but he is now pretty much irrelevant in today's culture.

Posted by: EP at March 09, 2025 08:21 PM (nbNs7)

172 Does anyone have an old Glock catalog that shows what a "Glock 7" (as referenced in Die Hard) is? Ol' Gaston was sequential if not exactly creative in his product naming so there must have been one. Probably a mess kit or something.

Posted by: Oddbob at March 09, 2025 08:21 PM (/y8xj)

173 Obama was the last big figure when the mainstream media pertained. Then came Trump and the ten year period that ushered in the new media. Obama looks anachronistic in comparison. The Democrats are still reeling from that because Obama was supposed to be the epitome of cool, but he is now pretty much irrelevant in today's culture.
Posted by: EP at March 09, 2025 08:21 PM (nbNs7)

Camel cool, Lucky Strikes cool, or Kool cool?

Posted by: Hour of the Wolf at March 09, 2025 08:22 PM (VNX3d)

174 In this day and age of body armor, I'm working on perfecting thr groin shot.

Posted by: Ben Had at March 09, 2025 08:22 PM (mB6WH)

175 When the Russians finally pushed the Ukrainians out of the fortress city of Bahkmut two years ago, there was a video taken in a bunker where cases of WWII Thompsons, looking like new in the box, were seen in the background.
———-

SPAM ! I’d be willing to bet there are still cases of SPAM in some warehouse over there. Everyone from Russia, the South Pacific, and everything in between was supplied with SPAM, and plenty of it. The Soviets had a nickname for it, they grew tired of it, but it was one item there was no shortage and probably saved them.

Posted by: Common Tater at March 09, 2025 08:23 PM (Npcdm)

176 Them a 22 would help persuade them to go elsewhere (rumor is that Israel used to use that).
Posted by: Itinerant Alley Butcher

Known anti mob tactic. If you care to read Kill or Be Killed by Rex Applegate (former trainer of OSS and later spies), he covers the basics for anti mobs in the later chapters. Think he added those to the original chapters in a revised version. Still worth reading for basic self defense and situational awareness with a smattering of point shooting information derived from Fairburn and Sykes who he associated with during WWII.

Posted by: whig at March 09, 2025 08:23 PM (ctrM5)

177 I was surprised but pleased when Hickock 45 chose the 6.5x55 cartridge even over the 30-06. I have a Swedish Mauser in 6.5 and it is the sweetest shooter. Comfortable recoil, action like glass sliding on oil, and accurate beyond my abilities. The 30-06 in a bolt action is more versatile for reloading; everything from gallery loads to fire breathing and with plenty of cast bullet possibilities. But the 6.5x 55 is still first for me.

I seem to be attracted to 'unusual' calibers by today's standards: 41 magnum or special, 6.5x55, 32 long, 22 magnum. Guess I'm just a niche kind of shooter and hand loading lets me indulge that.

Posted by: JTB at March 09, 2025 08:23 PM (yTvNw)

178 The Self-Defense law folks have some interesting takes which get them clicks/views, I guess. They has a video that the best gun to carry was a pink pistol.

It did have a certain compelling logic - that in the instance of someone reporting that you had brandished a gun - and you hadn't - that people will often describe a generic black handgun. And if you have a pink one, well, they are proven to be lying.

I don't know how often that happens. Seems like an edge case.

Posted by: blaster - Fortis Fortuna Adiuvat at March 09, 2025 08:24 PM (QfvaV)

179 Forgot to mention that this week's Highway Patrol features the lovely and talented Barbara Eden. She doesn't get to shoot the Colt Infinity revolvers, sadly.
Posted by: Schnorflepuppy - OT but harmless at March 09, 2025 08:19 PM (v23vE)
----
I thought that looked like her!

Posted by: Weasel at March 09, 2025 08:25 PM (3nqLb)

180 No shooting this weekend, just work and machinery maintenance and gardening. Boy howdy, it seems as though I was just reading _last Sunday’s Gun Thread…. Last week went fast.
Great thread as always Weasel and a great week to the GunHorde.

Posted by: Coelacanth at March 09, 2025 08:26 PM (OyOhQ)

181 174 In this day and age of body armor, I'm working on perfecting thr groin shot.

Posted by: Ben Had at March 09, 2025 08:22 PM

That is an awfully small target when facing marauding Lefties!

Posted by: Pillage Idiot at March 09, 2025 08:26 PM (Q4Dc6)

182 Z deplorable! Good to see you in a grey box. Think of you frequently, prayers are up for you, too
Posted by: Grateful

Thankyou!
stroke @1130 on 1/20. got to Er promptly. Ischemic stroke, R carotid clot removed, proper drugs administered thank the Lord. Speech improved quickly (betterhalf's observation).
i have a lot of left side deficit to recover from.
Im quiet in the gray boxes because th left hand doesn't type any longer.

Posted by: AZ deplorable moron at March 09, 2025 08:27 PM (Hk0bN)

183 One advantage though to the MTM storage is that you can buy basically stacking racks of the stuff and add layers. You can do that with Uncle Sam's discard ammo storage containers but the handle tends to bollix stacking more than 3-4 containers high without some sort of kludge.
Posted by: whig at March 09, 2025 08:20 PM (ctrM5)

Stackability was one of my goals. I have a mish mash of different ammo boxes that teeter when stacked.

Posted by: blaster - Fortis Fortuna Adiuvat at March 09, 2025 08:27 PM (QfvaV)

184 Posted by: whig at March 09, 2025 08:15 PM (ctrM5)

IIRC, the term "Browning" was synonymous for any small, concealable semi-auto pistol all across Europe from 1900-1914. That's testimony to how widespread JMB's Model 1900, Model 1903, and Model 1910 from FN were all over Europe.

Posted by: Ed L at March 09, 2025 08:27 PM (AiJK3)

185 Given how much I enjoy traditional style muzzleloaders, I wonder if the coming 250th anniversary of the Declaration will ignite (pun intended) renewed interest in the guns of that period. I might want to stock up on flints in the right sizes and some extra black powder.

Posted by: JTB at March 09, 2025 08:28 PM (yTvNw)

186 In this day and age of body armor, I'm working on perfecting thr groin shot.
Posted by: Ben Had at March 09, 2025 08:22 PM

Lips and hips.

Posted by: Duncanthrax at March 09, 2025 08:28 PM (a3Q+t)

187 By the way, in an article a few years ago, author Matt Bracken mentioned "skip shot" as a way of crowd control.

If I understand correctly, Matt was talking about a tactic where one "skipped" bird shot off pavement into the legs of a crowd.

So, I guess there is a case to be made for "shooting for the legs" but it seems to be of limited utility.

Posted by: blake - semi lurker in marginal standing (tT6L1) at March 09, 2025 08:29 PM (tT6L1)

188 Dinner bell ringing.

Hope all Morons have a good week!

Posted by: Pillage Idiot at March 09, 2025 08:30 PM (Q4Dc6)

189 172 Does anyone have an old Glock catalog that shows what a "Glock 7" (as referenced in Die Hard) is? Ol' Gaston was sequential if not exactly creative in his product naming so there must have been one. Probably a mess kit or something.
Posted by: Oddbob at March 09, 2025 08:21 PM (/y8xj)
I have a picture of the different frames, not many changes, but I’m sure they mean G17,the original.

Posted by: Eromero at March 09, 2025 08:30 PM (LHPAg)

190 174 In this day and age of body armor, I'm working on perfecting thr groin shot.
Posted by: Ben Had
======
Easier to use an AR with the SS109 5.56x55 LAP (Light Armor Piercing). If not using plates, an LAP round does a number on any soft body armor including the newer high density polymer plates.

There are also some funky shotgun shells using sabots that do not treat even plated armor very nicely. Brenneke makes quite a few of them but there are now some competitors.

There was one poor law officer shot in the vest by a guy with a 45/70. It did not penetrate but apparently the impact induced an aneurysm in the brain from the bullet hitting the chest with such force that it caused a massive blood overpressure event. Officer died instantly.

Posted by: whig at March 09, 2025 08:31 PM (ctrM5)

191 Does anyone have an old Glock catalog that shows what a "Glock 7" (as referenced in Die Hard) is? Ol' Gaston was sequential if not exactly creative in his product naming so there must have been one. Probably a mess kit or something.
Posted by: Oddbob at March 09, 2025 08:21 PM (/y8xj)

IIRC, it was purely an invention of the script writers who didn't understand that although the frames were polymer, there was more than enough metal in the barrel and slide to have Glocks set off metal detectors.

Posted by: Ed L at March 09, 2025 08:33 PM (AiJK3)

192 187 By the way, in an article a few years ago, author Matt Bracken mentioned "skip shot" as a way of crowd control.

If I understand correctly, Matt was talking about a tactic where one "skipped" bird shot off pavement into the legs of a crowd.

So, I guess there is a case to be made for "shooting for the legs" but it seems to be of limited utility.
Posted by: blake
=========
I would use plated or steel birdshot for that because lead pellets would probably deform unpredictably when hitting the surface at an angle.

Not something I would try to do personally when confronted with an angry mob. Escape, Evade, and Hide would be my goal.

Posted by: whig at March 09, 2025 08:34 PM (ctrM5)

193 Whig, there is no stopping a femoral artery bleed out.

Posted by: Ben Had at March 09, 2025 08:34 PM (mB6WH)

194 160 AZ deplorable! Good to see you in a grey box. Think of you frequently, prayers are up for you, too
Posted by: Grateful - the range bag lady at March 09, 2025 08:14 PM (IQ6Gq)

Ditto this. Praying for your full recovery.

Posted by: Dash my lace wigs! at March 09, 2025 08:35 PM (OX9vb)

195 @Ben Had, looking forward to TX.

I know a former SWAT officer. According to what he told me, due to people wearing body armor SWAT training was two to the groin and one to the head as the head came down and presented as a target.

Posted by: blake - semi lurker in marginal standing (tT6L1) at March 09, 2025 08:35 PM (tT6L1)

196 IIRC, it was purely an invention of the script writers

No doubt, but since Glock made products other than guns for the police/military market, I suspect that there was something identified as a Glock Model 7. Just not a gun.

Posted by: Oddbob at March 09, 2025 08:35 PM (/y8xj)

197 174 In this day and age of body armor, I'm working on perfecting thr groin shot.
Posted by: Ben Had at March 09, 2025 08:22 PM (mB6WH
That’s where you ask the thug ‘Oh, you’re bleeding! I think I have a tissue in my pocket.’.

Posted by: Eromero at March 09, 2025 08:35 PM (LHPAg)

198
IIRC, the term "Browning" was synonymous for any small, concealable semi-auto pistol all across Europe from 1900-1914. That's testimony to how widespread JMB's Model 1900, Model 1903, and Model 1910 from FN were all over Europe.
Posted by: Ed L
=====
There are some Mausers, even Savage made pocket pistols among others at the time. FN though had better marketing.

If someone wanted a lower cost area to collect, pocket pistols of that era are one of the cheaper ways to start a particular collection.

Posted by: whig at March 09, 2025 08:36 PM (ctrM5)

199 Camel cool, Lucky Strikes cool, or Kool cool?
Posted by: Hour of the Wolf at March 09, 2025 08:22 PM (VNX3d)

Obama smoked all of the above probleybly. Don't think he was all that choosey. There are accounts of Chicago reporters sharing smokes with Obama in his early Illinois political career.

Posted by: EP at March 09, 2025 08:36 PM (nbNs7)

200 Posted by: whig at March 09, 2025 08:31 PM (ctrM5)

If you can get your hands on them, M855A1 ammo with its steel tip and copper slug will give you even more capability against light armor or cover in 5.56mm X 45.

Posted by: Ed L at March 09, 2025 08:36 PM (AiJK3)

201 In Die Hard 2, Bruce Willis’ John McClane character claims to have had a “Glock 7” pulled on him, describing it as “a porcelain gun made in Germany. It doesn't show up on your airport X-ray machines.”

All of which is bogus.

The first pistol, the Glock G17, was named that because it's patent submission was the 17th filed by Gaston Glock. The pistol was designated the P80 by the Austrian Army.

Posted by: Duncanthrax at March 09, 2025 08:37 PM (a3Q+t)

202 Camel cool, Lucky Strikes cool, or Kool cool?
Posted by: Hour of the Wolf at March 09, 2025 08:22 PM (VNX3d)

Obama smoked all of the above probleybly. Don't think he was all that choosey. There are accounts of Chicago reporters sharing smokes with Obama in his early Illinois political career.
Posted by: EP at March 09, 2025 08:36 PM (nbNs7)

So, whatever the bum could bum....

Posted by: Hour of the Wolf at March 09, 2025 08:37 PM (VNX3d)

203 blake that makes a lot of sense , doesn't it.

Posted by: Ben Had at March 09, 2025 08:37 PM (mB6WH)

204 I know a former SWAT officer. According to what he told me, due to people wearing body armor SWAT training was two to the groin and one to the head as the head came down and presented as a target.
Posted by: blake
=======
Became known as the Mozambique Drill due to the experience of a particular mercenary soldier, Mad Mike Rousseau, in those post colonial wars. Has a wiki page on it.

Posted by: whig at March 09, 2025 08:37 PM (ctrM5)

205 Not something I would try to do personally when confronted with an angry mob. Escape, Evade, and Hide would be my goal.
Posted by: whig at March 09, 2025 08:34 PM (ctrM5)
--------------

Yeah, me too. Sort of like my "guns going off in the store" scenario. If the gunman isn't within sight, I don't go looking for trouble, However, I do pull people into me and if we can't escape, I find cover to defend.

Posted by: blake - semi lurker in marginal standing (tT6L1) at March 09, 2025 08:37 PM (tT6L1)

206 i have a lot of left side deficit to recover from.

Posted by: AZ deplorable moron at March 09, 2025 08:27 PM (Hk0bN)

How are your knife skills? Better get cracking... you have until October!

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at March 09, 2025 08:38 PM (L5An7)

207 It's true! Porcelain doesn't show up on xrays!

Posted by: Toilet Smuggler at March 09, 2025 08:39 PM (lhenN)

208 I am incorrect in thinking the Mozambique drill was two to the heart and one to the head?

Posted by: Ben Had at March 09, 2025 08:39 PM (mB6WH)

209 Weasel, it's time for me to sign off. See you all next week!

Posted by: Ed L at March 09, 2025 08:40 PM (AiJK3)

210 Posted by: Ed L at March 09, 2025 08:40 PM (AiJK3)
--
Adios, Ed L!

Posted by: Weasel at March 09, 2025 08:40 PM (3nqLb)

211 Later, Ed L!

Posted by: blake - semi lurker in marginal standing (tT6L1) at March 09, 2025 08:40 PM (tT6L1)

212 If you can get your hands on them, M855A1 ammo with its steel tip and copper slug will give you even more capability against light armor or cover in 5.56mm X 45.
Posted by: Ed L

That is harder to get ahold of. Easier to get old WWII Black Tip ammo at gun shows etc. Problem with that is if you remove the bullets and then reload it, you are committing a federal crime violating the 1968 Gun Control Act. If you try to use it as is, you can have reliability problems (surplus ammo was exempted from teh GCA which mattered a lot more when the GCA was adopted than nowadays).

Ditto for old surplus 8x57 Mauser rounds that are often armor piercing and the Brits had their armor piercing round in .303 as well.

Posted by: whig at March 09, 2025 08:41 PM (ctrM5)

213 Thankyou!
stroke @1130 on 1/20. got to Er promptly. Ischemic stroke, R carotid clot removed, proper drugs administered thank the Lord. Speech improved quickly (betterhalf's observation).
i have a lot of left side deficit to recover from.
Im quiet in the gray boxes because th left hand doesn't type any longer.
Posted by: AZ deplorable moron at March 09, 2025 08:27 PM (Hk0bN)

My goodness, AZ. Glad you're still here with us, but sorry to hear about your troubles.

Posted by: Schnorflepuppy - OT but harmless at March 09, 2025 08:41 PM (v23vE)

214 huh.
shoulda bought that Union Switch & Signal 1911 I saw many years ago. $800 as I recall; more than I had in my pocket that day.

woulda, coulda, shoulda; the 3 imps that torment us, right?

Saw a 1943 Colt 1911A1 at the gun show yesterday. Really nice condition, but the guy wanted 2 grand. Pass.

Posted by: That SOB Van Owen at March 09, 2025 08:42 PM (Hdixl)

215 208 I am incorrect in thinking the Mozambique drill was two to the heart and one to the head?
Posted by: Ben Had at March 09, 2025 08:39 PM (mB6WH)

I recall hearing the same thing in a class a few years back, Ben Had. Also there was a reference to a "failure drill" which may have omitted the courtesy headshot, probably owing to the cost of ammo and all that.

Posted by: Schnorflepuppy - OT but harmless at March 09, 2025 08:42 PM (v23vE)

216 187 If I understand correctly, Matt was talking about a tactic where one "skipped" bird shot off pavement into the legs of a crowd.

Posted by: blake - semi lurker in marginal standing (tT6L1) at March 09, 2025 08:29 PM
***
I think I recall hearing someone on a tour of the closed Nevada State Prison in Carson City describe this as a tactic used by guards to quell a disturbance. They would have a concrete floor to work with for the bounce. Less paperwork for pellet wounds than fatal shots too.

Posted by: TRex at March 09, 2025 08:43 PM (IQ6Gq)

217 So, whatever the bum could bum....
Posted by: Hour of the Wolf at March 09, 2025 08:37 PM (VNX3d)

These were politicos who knew Obama back when he was a low level Illinois pol. Then in like six years he was president. It was pretty fucking crazy.

Posted by: EP at March 09, 2025 08:43 PM (nbNs7)

218 I am incorrect in thinking the Mozambique drill was two to the heart and one to the head?
Posted by: Ben Had at March 09, 2025 08:39 PM

No, you are not incorrect.

"he Mozambique Drill, also known as the Failure Drill, Failure to Stop drill, or informally as "two to the body, one to the head", is a close-quarters shooting technique that requires the shooter to fire twice into the torso of a target, and follow up with a more difficult shot to the head that, if properly placed, should kill or otherwise stop the target if the previous shots failed to do so."
-- Wikipedia

Posted by: Duncanthrax at March 09, 2025 08:44 PM (a3Q+t)

219 208 Ben Had, You are correct.
=======
In stories of the Stakeout Squad of NYPD which Jim Cirrillo wrote about, they had two members that preferred to shatter the hips first using 45 ACP rounds. Those guys were known as the proctologists among the squad.

If you cannot get an instant stop via a CNS (aka Central Nervous System shot), then you have to rely on either causing enough blood loss to put them out of the fight usually via shots to the torso or destroy their mechanical ability to move forward which the waist offers if you shatter the hip bones.

Usually the hips, if able to hit them consistently are easier to hit than the head for a stop. Head is easier to whip around than hips.

Posted by: whig at March 09, 2025 08:46 PM (ctrM5)

220 The Self-Defense law folks have some interesting takes which get them clicks/views, I guess. They has a video that the best gun to carry was a pink pistol.

It did have a certain compelling logic - that in the instance of someone reporting that you had brandished a gun - and you hadn't - that people will often describe a generic black handgun. And if you have a pink one, well, they are proven to be lying.

I don't know how often that happens. Seems like an edge case.
Posted by: blaster - Fortis Fortuna Adiuvat
=====

Robin's Egg, Angel, or Bel Air Blue are nice too.

Posted by: Itinerant Alley Butcher at March 09, 2025 08:46 PM (/lPRQ)

221 Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at March 09, 2025 08:38 PM (L5An7)
----
Isn't it past your bedtime?

Posted by: Weasel at March 09, 2025 08:46 PM (3nqLb)

222 woulda, coulda, shoulda; the 3 imps that torment us, right?

Posted by: That SOB Van Owen at March 09, 2025 08:42 PM (Hdixl)

Very astute observation of the human condition!

Posted by: Schnorflepuppy - OT but harmless at March 09, 2025 08:47 PM (v23vE)

223 i have a lot of left side deficit to recover from.
Im quiet in the gray boxes because th left hand doesn't type any longer.
Posted by: AZ deplorable moron at March 09, 2025 08:27 PM (Hk0bN)

My goodness, AZ. Glad you're still here with us, but sorry to hear about your troubles.
Posted by: Schnorflepuppy
======
Prayers AZ deplorable for a speedy recovery and for the skills of your treating physicians/physical therapists.

Posted by: whig at March 09, 2025 08:47 PM (ctrM5)

224 222 woulda, coulda, shoulda; the 3 imps that torment us, right?

Posted by: That SOB Van Owen
========
Follow Satchel Paige's advice: "Don’t look back—something might be gaining on you."

Posted by: whig at March 09, 2025 08:49 PM (ctrM5)

225 I apologize. This is not a thread for anything other than target shooting , reloading and fundamentals.

Posted by: Ben Had at March 09, 2025 08:49 PM (mB6WH)

226 [3, 4, 5]
[5, 12, 13]
[6, 8, 10]
[7, 24, 25]
[8, 15, 17]
[9, 12, 15]
[9, 40, 41]
[10, 24, 26]

Posted by: rhennigantx at March 09, 2025 08:49 PM (gbOdA)

227 Robin's Egg, Angel, or Bel Air Blue are nice too.
Posted by: Itinerant Alley Butcher
=========
Sparkles would be a nice accent.

Posted by: whig at March 09, 2025 08:50 PM (ctrM5)

228 Robin's Egg, Angel, or Bel Air Blue are nice too.
Posted by: Itinerant Alley Butcher
=========
Sparkles would be a nice accent.
Posted by: whig at March 09, 2025 08:50 PM (ctrM5)

With rainbow stripes as the base?

Posted by: Hour of the Wolf at March 09, 2025 08:51 PM (VNX3d)

229 IIRC, it was purely an invention of the script writers who didn't understand that although the frames were polymer, there was more than enough metal in the barrel and slide to have Glocks set off metal detectors.
Posted by: Ed L at March 09, 2025 08:33 PM (AiJK3)

But in Die Hard 2 the Glocks are said to be "ceramic guns"

Posted by: blaster - Fortis Fortuna Adiuvat at March 09, 2025 08:51 PM (QfvaV)

230 225 I apologize. This is not a thread for anything other than target shooting , reloading and fundamentals.
Posted by: Ben Had
=======
Why apologize---we used to talk about self defense situations quite a bit. Last I checked, the major thing was Weasel did not want to have powder loads discussed as to the number of grains etc. because someone might apply those injudiciously to their own reloads.

Please let us know Weasel if you do not want us to talk about self defense situations (not the moronic zombie herd, Last of Days scenarios) and tactics.

Posted by: whig at March 09, 2025 08:52 PM (ctrM5)

231 I apologize. This is not a thread for anything other than target shooting , reloading and fundamentals.
Posted by: Ben Had at March 09, 2025 08:49 PM

And watch caliber discussion.

Posted by: Duncanthrax at March 09, 2025 08:53 PM (a3Q+t)

232 Im quiet in the gray boxes because th left hand doesn't type any longer.
********
Thank God you were able to get to the ER promptly. I drill TRex on the signs and what to do in case of....You aren't even two months out, that left hand could come back as the brain rejiggers how to do so, so keep on using it. Stay strong, it's a long distance race....

Posted by: Grateful - the range bag lady at March 09, 2025 08:53 PM (IQ6Gq)

233 With rainbow stripes as the base?
Posted by: Hour of the Wolf
========
Charming. A unicorn bayonet might complete the ensemble with a chaltreuse holster.

Twould be fabulous!!! and concealment right out in the open as the eyes would hurt just looking at it.

Posted by: whig at March 09, 2025 08:53 PM (ctrM5)

234 But in Die Hard 2 the Glocks are said to be "ceramic guns"
Posted by: blaster - Fortis Fortuna Adiuvat at March 09, 2025 08:51 PM (QfvaV)
---------------

Yeah, ceramic barrel = true hand blaster because the shrapnel from the barrel disintegrating would certainly not do the hand any good.

Posted by: blake - semi lurker in marginal standing (tT6L1) at March 09, 2025 08:54 PM (tT6L1)

235 And watch caliber discussion.
Posted by: Duncanthrax
========
Bigger is better except when it is not.

Posted by: whig at March 09, 2025 08:54 PM (ctrM5)

236 Well, time to wander.

Keep well, everyone!

Later!

Posted by: blake - semi lurker in marginal standing (tT6L1) at March 09, 2025 08:56 PM (tT6L1)

237 Yeah, ceramic barrel = true hand blaster because the shrapnel from the barrel disintegrating would certainly not do the hand any good.
Posted by: blake
=======
Conceivably for a one shot, you MIGHT be able to craft a barrel from aluminum for that which would not show up on magnetic scanners but certainly would in any of the new scanners used today for airport screening.

Posted by: whig at March 09, 2025 08:56 PM (ctrM5)

238 apologize. This is not a thread for anything other than target shooting , reloading and fundamentals.
Posted by: Ben Had at March 09, 2025 08:49 PM (mB6WH)

I believe hogs are included in target shooting, dear Ben.

Posted by: RI Red at March 09, 2025 08:58 PM (62FZE)

239 Not something I would try to do personally when confronted with an angry mob. Escape, Evade, and Hide would be my goal.

Less likely to end up in the grave or a courtroom if you get off the X.

Posted by: Unknown Drip Under Pressure at March 09, 2025 08:58 PM (a4flb)

240 [3, 4, 5]
[5, 12, 13]
[6, 8, 10]
[7, 24, 25]

I was told there would be no linear algebra.

Posted by: Oddbob at March 09, 2025 08:59 PM (/y8xj)

241 Less likely to end up in the grave or a courtroom if you get off the X.
Posted by: Unknown Drip Under Pressure at March 09, 2025 08:58 PM

This!

Posted by: Bluesky at March 09, 2025 08:59 PM (a3Q+t)

242 looks around furtively for CBD, but it appears he's gone to bed

OK, y'all, our target for comment count is 309 to overtake the Food Thread. You have one hour. Weasel and his DST-addled sleep schedule are counting on you to avoid the dreaded 0700 ZOOM call with the Ewok. Make it so!

Posted by: Schnorflepuppy - OT but harmless at March 09, 2025 09:00 PM (v23vE)

243 239 Not something I would try to do personally when confronted with an angry mob. Escape, Evade, and Hide would be my goal.
========
Less likely to end up in the grave or a courtroom if you get off the X.
Posted by: Unknown Drip Under Pressure
-----
Sobering and true. Mas Ayoob named his first self defense primer as In the Gravest Extreme which is about correct. The best gun fight is one that you avoided in the first place by being somewhere else or via Weaselcraft as Mas put it.

Posted by: whig at March 09, 2025 09:00 PM (ctrM5)

244 apologize. This is not a thread for anything other than target shooting , reloading and fundamentals.
*************
Well, for what it's worth, this is something I think about - so it's helpful to hear you more experience people talk about it.
And Ben Had, I'm in with you for tasting RMBS Mom's baklava!

Posted by: Grateful - the range bag lady at March 09, 2025 09:00 PM (IQ6Gq)

245 Schnorf, I know this comes close to math, but that’s about one a minute.

Posted by: RI Red at March 09, 2025 09:01 PM (62FZE)

246 Isn't it past your bedtime?

Posted by: Weasel at March 09, 2025 08:46 PM (3nqLb)

It sure is! But jet lag is a bitch!

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at March 09, 2025 09:03 PM (L5An7)

247 How do you stop a wild boar from digging up your fields?

Put him on the ballot as a Democrat, and elect him to the legislature. He'll get a bigger trough.

Posted by: Hour of the Wolf at March 09, 2025 09:03 PM (VNX3d)

248 I did not get out to the Range this week. I was following Weasel’s advice: I’m between projects and would not have been going to practice something in particular.
Yeah, blame it on the boss. That always works.

Posted by: RI Red at March 09, 2025 09:04 PM (62FZE)

249 Weasel, have you tried re-filling you Fuel Kegs yet?

Posted by: mrp at March 09, 2025 09:04 PM (rj6Yv)

250 Situational awareness is something all of us, including those too young or too feeble to use firearms can learn.

Ed Lovette and Dave Spaulding got together for one such book, Defensive Living. Ed used to train State Dept types for deployment overseas and Dave is a famous retired police and current firearm trainer.

Louis Awerbuck, sadly now deceased, still has his four excellent books out there. He was a disciple of Col. Cooper for awhile, seen the elephant in South Africa, and had a long running and pungent column in SWAT magazine concurrent with his firearm trainings classes. Excellent short lessons in his book (which were adapted from his columns). Tactical Reality is the first and he has two more of that nature. Then he has a separate tome on use of the shotgun. Also well worth it if you depend on one for self defense.

Think Louis still is in a couple YT videos if you want to see him in action before buying his books.

Posted by: whig at March 09, 2025 09:06 PM (ctrM5)

251 247 How do you stop a wild boar from digging up your fields?

Put him on the ballot as a Democrat, and elect him to the legislature. He'll get a bigger trough.
Posted by: Hour of the Wolf
=====
Ba-dump! You are rolling tonight Hour of the Wolf.

Posted by: whig at March 09, 2025 09:07 PM (ctrM5)

252 Sobering and true. Mas Ayoob named his first self defense primer as In the Gravest Extreme which is about correct. The best gun fight is one that you avoided in the first place by being somewhere else or via Weaselcraft as Mas put it.

I took many years of Krav Maga courses plus advanced personal training from IDF SF types, and even from Rory Miler, who has written a number of books on the subject and has great training techniques....

They all say "Your best defense is don't be there". That advice has served me well. Might sound cowardly, but as I get older I have far more to lose than to possibly gain by getting in a monkey dance with some young buck.

Posted by: Unknown Drip Under Pressure at March 09, 2025 09:08 PM (a4flb)

253 Delayed , Vaya Con Dios Blake.

Posted by: whig at March 09, 2025 09:08 PM (ctrM5)

254 Please let us know Weasel if you do not want us to talk about self defense situations (not the moronic zombie herd, Last of Days scenarios) and tactics.

Posted by: whig at March 09, 2025 08:52 PM (ctrM5)
---
Self defense stuff is bueno. Current events and politics have their own threads. Thanks!

Posted by: Weasel at March 09, 2025 09:08 PM (3Dcbq)

255 I remember taking the Louis Awerbuck tactical shotgun course, and learned that Louis was a big fan of the "exotic" 12ga shotgun shells for anti-crowd evasion.

Posted by: mrp at March 09, 2025 09:08 PM (rj6Yv)

256 They all say "Your best defense is don't be there". That advice has served me well. Might sound cowardly, but as I get older I have far more to lose than to possibly gain by getting in a monkey dance with some young buck.
Posted by: Unknown Drip Under Pressure
==========
Rory Miller's Monkey Dance allegory is an excellent stick in the mind software update to quell any unwise activity. You had some good teachers.

Posted by: whig at March 09, 2025 09:10 PM (ctrM5)

257 Louis Awerbuck videos are still up on YT. I also took his 3-day handgun course. Superb instructor.

Posted by: mrp at March 09, 2025 09:10 PM (rj6Yv)

258 Shameless Plug: I did, however, keep working on my baby blog (see, Top Listing, Bloggers In Arms.)
Home Page. .———>
I’m taking some of my old Weasel-inspired reports and reworking them. So, Gub stuff.
And cats.

Posted by: RI Red at March 09, 2025 09:10 PM (62FZE)

259 249 Weasel, have you tried re-filling you Fuel Kegs yet?
Posted by: mrp at March 09, 2025 09:04 PM (rj6Yv)
----
Not yet!

Posted by: Weasel at March 09, 2025 09:11 PM (3Dcbq)

260 Awerbuck's defensive shotgun thoughts are well worth study and consideration.

Posted by: Duncanthrax at March 09, 2025 09:11 PM (JsD5q)

261 Weasel, we haven't gotten a FSJ sitrep in a while.

Posted by: Duncanthrax at March 09, 2025 09:13 PM (JsD5q)

262 >> Posted by: AZ deplorable moron at March 09, 2025 08:27 PM (Hk0bN)

Glad you’re ok and prayers coming your way. Look into adding creatine to your daily regimen. I was a guinea pig, er, volunteer that showed it helped with TBI and stroke mitigation.

Posted by: Marcus T at March 09, 2025 09:14 PM (BfShq)

263 Louis brought some hardware to our range for the shotgun course. One of the gizmos was a mobile, spring-loaded target system which he operated with two pull roped for a sideways-back and forth motion for a full-size torso with head. He'd dress it up with a terrorist-holding a baby scenario and the student would attempt to put a hole in terrorist w/o hitting the doll. That was a learning experience.

Posted by: mrp at March 09, 2025 09:15 PM (rj6Yv)

264 255 I remember taking the Louis Awerbuck tactical shotgun course, and learned that Louis was a big fan of the "exotic" 12ga shotgun shells for anti-crowd evasion.
Posted by: mrp
============
He taught quite a few lawmen. I think for a variety of reasons, that there was a massive shift to ARs from shotguns as the War on Terror kicked in plus the hiring of more women in law enforcement. Easier for logistics to keep an AR in 5.56 than 12 and 20 gauge shotguns plus the ARs have adjustable stocks.

John Farnam is another legendary trainer as is Tom Givens and both have excellent remarks to be said about shotguns.

My main problem now though is recoil due to health problems which caused me to move from my beloved shotties to an AR carbine for home long gun self defense. Could have switched to a pistol caliber carbine but the risk of overpenetration is actually more with those than with an AR with a proper self defense load. Plus, I was already acquainted with the AR from service.

Posted by: whig at March 09, 2025 09:15 PM (ctrM5)

265 263 Louis brought some hardware to our range for the shotgun course. One of the gizmos was a mobile, spring-loaded target system which he operated with two pull roped for a sideways-back and forth motion for a full-size torso with head. He'd dress it up with a terrorist-holding a baby scenario and the student would attempt to put a hole in terrorist w/o hitting the doll. That was a learning experience.
Posted by: mrp
========
Only seen Louis on video or his excellent books. Please tell us more about your training with him and anything that sticks out about his advice on shotgun use.

Posted by: whig at March 09, 2025 09:16 PM (ctrM5)

266 And watch caliber discussion.
Posted by: Duncanthrax
========
Bigger is better except when it is not.
Posted by: whig
========
There was one poor law officer shot in the vest by a guy with a 45/70. It did not penetrate but apparently the impact induced an aneurysm in the brain from the bullet hitting the chest with such force that it caused a massive blood overpressure event. Officer died instantly.
Posted by: whig
========

Bigger better or not....

Zippy little bullets with high kinetic energy get all the love, big fat slugs moving like freight train still have some utility.
Mostly for brown bear and dick shots though.

Posted by: Itinerant Alley Butcher at March 09, 2025 09:17 PM (/lPRQ)

267 Has anyone shot pistols in the rain?

Gunfights don’t discriminate regarding the weather. Do pistols perform differently at all in the pouring rain?

Posted by: nurse ratched at March 09, 2025 09:19 PM (mT+6a)

268 My main problem now though is recoil due to health problems which caused me to move from my beloved shotties to an AR carbine for home long gun self defense. Could have switched to a pistol caliber carbine but the risk of overpenetration is actually more with those than with an AR with a proper self defense load. Plus, I was already acquainted with the AR from service.
Posted by: whig at March 09, 2025 09:15 PM (ctrM5)

During a break, the discussion turned to how to survive a riot (the LA riots were a recent memory at the time). Louis said his go-to ammo was ... he reached into his pocket and pulled out a Dragons Breath shell and one of those wired double-ball shells. I was impressed.

Posted by: mrp at March 09, 2025 09:20 PM (rj6Yv)

269 A .45 enthusiast described 9mm as "Europellets" and I've had a hard time getting that out of my head.

Shooting too much .45 hurts my wrists, though. So it's mostly Europellets for me.

Posted by: Splunge at March 09, 2025 09:21 PM (afZ9r)

270 The best self defense tactic is to pay attention. Know what's happening around you, and what to do if you feel uncomfortable. If you feel uncomfortable, leave. If you can't leave, consider your options, some of which may be run/hide/fight. If it's down to fight, do so with the knowledge that you have to win to go home. I think about these things a lot, I also think about retiring.

Posted by: Eromero at March 09, 2025 09:21 PM (LHPAg)

271 How do you stop a wild boar from digging up your fields?

Put him on the ballot as a Democrat, and elect him to the legislature. He'll get a bigger trough.
Posted by: Hour of the Wolf
=====
Ba-dump! You are rolling tonight Hour of the Wolf.
Posted by: whig at March 09, 2025 09:07 PM (ctrM5)

In Ben Had's case, she should try to use a district in Austin that's already D.

Posted by: Hour of the Wolf at March 09, 2025 09:21 PM (VNX3d)

272 Bigger better or not....

Zippy little bullets with high kinetic energy get all the love, big fat slugs moving like freight train still have some utility.
Mostly for brown bear and dick shots though.
Posted by: Itinerant Alley Butcher at March 09, 2025 09:17 PM (/lPRQ)

Open carry a S&W 500. Problem solved.

Posted by: Disinterested FDA Director at March 09, 2025 09:22 PM (rUMMM)

273 Zippy little bullets with high kinetic energy get all the love, big fat slugs moving like freight train still have some utility.
Mostly for brown bear and dick shots though.
Posted by: Itinerant Alley Butcher
========
I think part of the charm of the zippy little bullets is less felt recoil and usually a laser like trajectory at most self defense ranges. Bit of a learning curve when shooting something like a 45/70 at distance.

That being said, my big bore days are over before they really began. I have been slowly restoring an 1888 Springfield Trapdoor and have a 71/84 Mauser but I doubt I would care to fire them anymore with service loads.

Even 30 caliber would be a challenge in battle rifles for me right now.

Posted by: whig at March 09, 2025 09:22 PM (ctrM5)

274 In Ben Had's case, she should try to use a district in Austin that's already D.
Posted by: Hour of the Wolf
========
She is either gonna laugh or gut you like a fish. But I laughed.

Posted by: whig at March 09, 2025 09:22 PM (ctrM5)

275 Thanks for the Gun Thread Weasel!

Posted by: DBCooper at March 09, 2025 09:23 PM (y1Mvi)

276 Weasel, we haven't gotten a FSJ sitrep in a while.
Posted by: Duncanthrax at March 09, 2025 09:13 PM (JsD5q)
----
They're doing great! I'll scrounge up a pic for next week. FSJ is downstairs watching TV with WW, and Gertie is here with me. She likes Pringles, btw!

Posted by: Weasel at March 09, 2025 09:24 PM (MvZ7K)

277 During a break, the discussion turned to how to survive a riot (the LA riots were a recent memory at the time). Louis said his go-to ammo was ... he reached into his pocket and pulled out a Dragons Breath shell and one of those wired double-ball shells. I was impressed.
Posted by: mrp
========
Very interesting. I can see that he was tactically inventive. Kind of got some of that in his books but IRL would have been far better.

Posted by: whig at March 09, 2025 09:24 PM (ctrM5)

278 A couple of weeks ago I mentioned that Pacific Tool and Gauge had "Remington" barrels available for Glock, 1911, and S&W M&P pistols at very reasonable prices.

https://t.ly/SEQNf

I bought a couple, and was so impressed that I bought a few more.

What caught my eye was the chambers on the 1911 45 ACP barrels were cut so there is a bit of leade (space) between the end of the chamber and the start of the rifling. This is a very good thing if you use lead bullets instead of those newfangled jacketed ones.

Posted by: Idaho Spudboy at March 09, 2025 09:24 PM (Uh8P4)

279 Shooting too much .45 hurts my wrists, though. So it's mostly Europellets for me.
Posted by: Splunge at March 09, 2025 09:21 PM (afZ9r)

My 9mms are snappier than my .45s, which are often easier on the wrists. Maybe because the 9mms are all polymer or aluminum and the 1911s are heavy steel? (As a backup, when the puny 8 round capacity is exhausted, I can throw it for some good damage.)

Posted by: Disinterested FDA Director at March 09, 2025 09:25 PM (rUMMM)

280 Posted by: DBCooper at March 09, 2025 09:23 PM (y1Mvi)
---
My pleasure!

Posted by: Weasel at March 09, 2025 09:25 PM (MvZ7K)

281 Thanks for another great Gun Thread, Weasel!

Posted by: RedMindBlueState at March 09, 2025 09:27 PM (Wnv9h)

282 Only seen Louis on video or his excellent books. Please tell us more about your training with him and anything that sticks out about his advice on shotgun use.
Posted by: whig at March 09, 2025 09:16 PM (ctrM5)

First, Louis was one of the first instructors hired by Col. Cooper. Awerbuck earned his credits serving in the SA special forces. He knew his stuff and he designed his own tactical targets. I still have a case of them. Both the shotgun and pistol courses were 3-day instruction - 8 hours a day. Shooting stance, night-time shooting, all one on one. Small class size. Short distance quick draw for the pistol included in the pistol course. I brought a Beretta 92 FS. Awerbuck had a near-physical reaction to that

He was strictly a .45ACP guy. Para Ordnance built one of their first high-capacity magazine frames to his specs.

Posted by: mrp at March 09, 2025 09:27 PM (rj6Yv)

283 OK, 9:28 Thank you time!

Thank you!

Thanks for being here and participating, and I hope to see you again next Sunday!

Posted by: Weasel at March 09, 2025 09:28 PM (MvZ7K)

284
Yeah, y'know, long time since I said "Thanks for the Gun Thread, Weasel!"
& thx for the dog update, too! (cute lil' scamps!)

Posted by: sock_rat_eez at March 09, 2025 09:29 PM (RP0h0)

285 270 The best self defense tactic is to pay attention. Know what's happening around you, and what to do if you feel uncomfortable. If you feel uncomfortable, leave. If you can't leave, consider your options, some of which may be run/hide/fight. If it's down to fight, do so with the knowledge that you have to win to go home. I think about these things a lot, I also think about retiring.
Posted by: Eromero
========
Developing spidey sense is what I try to include in my daily routine. Helps now that I am retired because I would get tired when working and go automatically into situation white sometimes while driving, etc.

I spend time with my dogs outside and try to just spend time observing the surroundings and looking for change/something that is different. Do the same if able on car trips.

In crowds/stores, I focus on keeping distance, placement to maintain casual observance, and look actively for paths of escape and evasion.

Posted by: whig at March 09, 2025 09:29 PM (ctrM5)

286 I've used Break Free for years. No issues.

Posted by: Maj. Healey at March 09, 2025 09:29 PM (/U5Yz)

287 Thnx for the Gun Thread Weasel and to the commenters here.

Posted by: whig at March 09, 2025 09:30 PM (ctrM5)

288 Posted by: sock_rat_eez at March 09, 2025 09:29 PM (RP0h0)
---
Nice to see you sock rat!

Posted by: Weasel at March 09, 2025 09:30 PM (MvZ7K)

289 265 263 Louis brought some hardware to our range for the shotgun course. One of the gizmos was a mobile, spring-loaded target system which he operated with two pull roped for a sideways-back and forth motion for a full-size torso with head. He'd dress it up with a terrorist-holding a baby scenario and the student would attempt to put a hole in terrorist w/o hitting the doll. That was a learning experience.
Posted by: mrp
========
Only seen Louis on video or his excellent books. Please tell us more about your training with him and anything that sticks out about his advice on shotgun use.
Posted by: whig at March 09, 2025 09:16 PM (ctrM5)

I had a similar training experience with John Murphy (FPF Training), minus the baby. The drill with the moving mannequin was (1) get off the X; (2) get off a center-mass shot on a target that's moving toward you. Much harder than it looks, even if you know what to expect.

Posted by: Schnorflepuppy - OT but harmless at March 09, 2025 09:31 PM (v23vE)

290 Gunfights don’t discriminate regarding the weather. Do pistols perform differently at all in the pouring rain?

Posted by: nurse ratched at March 09, 2025 09:19 PM (mT+6a)

Or wearing warm clothing and gloves during the the winter.

I practice drawing wearing gloves, and it is radically different!

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at March 09, 2025 09:32 PM (L5An7)

291 I brought a Beretta 92 FS. Awerbuck had a near-physical reaction to that He was strictly a .45ACP guy. Para Ordnance built one of their first high-capacity magazine frames to his specs.
Posted by: mrp
=========
Way cool. I like the 45 ACP and could fire it accurately when I carried it aka during my younger days. Had a drug dealer neighbor with pit bulls so bought and carried an XD-45 instead of a snubbie for while until he vamoosed.

Posted by: whig at March 09, 2025 09:32 PM (ctrM5)

292 My 9mms are snappier than my .45s, which are often easier on the wrists. Maybe because the 9mms are all polymer or aluminum and the 1911s are heavy steel? (As a backup, when the puny 8 round capacity is exhausted, I can throw it for some good damage.)
Posted by: Disinterested FDA Director

Put 10ft+ lanyard on that 45 so after you chunk it you can pull it back and chuck it again.

Seen this recently in some action movie (but with a heavy knife).
The hero took out four baddies this way.
Seems plausible.

Posted by: Itinerant Alley Butcher at March 09, 2025 09:33 PM (/lPRQ)

293 Posted by: AZ deplorable moron at March 09, 2025 08:12 PM (Owkv7)

AZ … good to see your name tonight

👏👏👏

***raises campo cup in salute***

Posted by: browndog on hind legs at March 09, 2025 09:33 PM (TTAGa)

294 I had a similar training experience with John Murphy (FPF Training), minus the baby. The drill with the moving mannequin was (1) get off the X; (2) get off a center-mass shot on a target that's moving toward you. Much harder than it looks, even if you know what to expect.
Posted by: Schnorflepuppy

From what I recalled from Louis discussing center of mass aiming is that if you only have a static full on center mass target, you learn some wrong lessons. As mrp posted, he tried to train people to learn to center whatever mass of the target is offered and put lead on target. That meant targets moving sideways and twisting offering the much more slender side view of the target rather than staying head on to take a pounding.

Posted by: whig at March 09, 2025 09:35 PM (ctrM5)

295 Thnx for the Gun Thread Weasel and to the commenters here.
Posted by: whig at March 09, 2025 09:30 PM (ctrM5)
----
Happy to do it! Thanks for all of your contributions!

Posted by: Weasel at March 09, 2025 09:35 PM (MvZ7K)

296 On the shotgun course (3 days), it was mainly shooting steel plates and that spring-loaded torso target. We covered patterning for buckshot, and how to evaluate slugs for the individual barrels (accuracy), how to properly adjust tactical slings. Also, when in a tactical situation, how to properly carry the shotgun ( barrel muzzle depressed for maximum leverage if the hostile is near arms length). How to do home drills for loading ammo on the move. That kind of stuff.

I did pretty good with the spring-loaded torso target. Hit hostile with two separate shots behind the ear, both hits touching. And that's while Louis was jerking the ropes like a maniac. He was impressed.

Posted by: mrp at March 09, 2025 09:36 PM (rj6Yv)

297 practice drawing wearing gloves, and it is radically different!
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at March 09, 2025 09:32 PM (L5An7)

So much of shooting is tactile (not tactical!). I necessarily shoot with gloves all winter, both long arms and small. Quite different.

Posted by: RI Red at March 09, 2025 09:36 PM (62FZE)

298 She is either gonna laugh or gut you like a ~~fish~~ wild hog. But I laughed.
Posted by: whig at March 09, 2025 09:22 PM (ctrM5)

FIFY.

Posted by: Schnorflepuppy - OT but harmless at March 09, 2025 09:37 PM (v23vE)

299 Is someone who prefers 9mm a metricsexual?

Posted by: Disinterested FDA Director at March 09, 2025 09:37 PM (rUMMM)

300 292 My 9mms are snappier than my .45s, which are often easier on the wrists. Maybe because the 9mms are all polymer or aluminum and the 1911s are heavy steel? (As a backup, when the puny 8 round capacity is exhausted, I can throw it for some good damage.)
Posted by: Disinterested FDA Director
=====
Weight of the firearm makes a difference in felt recoil plus grip design. If you move to something like the old 3rd Gen S&W steel frames for service length in 9 or even 40 S&W, recoil is very tame but then those weigh about as much as a 1911 Service Pistol. I shot the P229 better when trying out firearms than the P226 simply because the steel frame of the P229 absorbed more the 40 S&W recoil than the P226 aluminum frame.

Posted by: whig at March 09, 2025 09:38 PM (ctrM5)

301 300!

Posted by: Schnorflepuppy - OT but harmless at March 09, 2025 09:38 PM (v23vE)

302 Why, you might ask, would Pacific Tool and Gauge have Remington barrels for Glocks and M&Ps?

Part of Remington's woes, that led them into bankruptcy, was they went on an acquisition binge and sucked up a lot of smaller companies, in part to get ready for the M4 contract, which they then lost.

I suspect these barrels were inventory from an acquisition, which got liquidated when Remington went bust.

Posted by: Idaho Spudboy at March 09, 2025 09:38 PM (Uh8P4)

303 301 300!
Posted by: Schnorflepuppy - OT but harmless at March 09, 2025 09:38 PM (v23vE)

Rats. Gotta adjust my keyboard zero ...

Posted by: Schnorflepuppy - OT but harmless at March 09, 2025 09:38 PM (v23vE)

304 TTG. Thanks as always, Weasel. This is a special place.

Posted by: RI Red at March 09, 2025 09:40 PM (62FZE)

305 303 301 300!
Posted by: Schnorflepuppy - OT but harmless at March 09, 2025 09:38 PM (v23vE)

Rats. Gotta adjust my keyboard zero ...
Posted by: Schnorflepuppy - OT but harmless at March 09, 2025 09:38 PM (v23vE)

A misaligned clock must have affected the Time on Target.

Posted by: Hour of the Wolf at March 09, 2025 09:40 PM (VNX3d)

306 Ok. The car is an early’70s Maverick, probably one of the hotter ones given the hood, paint , and the fender badge that I couldn’t quite distinguish.
Pistol looks like a large frame revolver, walnut (?) grips - .357 at least, more likely something beginning in.4-

Posted by: Coelacanth at March 09, 2025 09:40 PM (wItF4)

307 Posted by: RI Red at March 09, 2025 09:40 PM (62FZE)
---
Thanks amigo. Appreciate it!

Posted by: Weasel at March 09, 2025 09:41 PM (L1xG8)

308 308

Posted by: RedMindBlueState at March 09, 2025 09:41 PM (Wnv9h)

309 I've gotta think that fit to the hand has something to do with felt recoil and wrist punishment. My S&W 6904, I can barely stand to shoot, it's so punishing, and I think that's a steel frame. My aluminum-framed Wilson SFX9 is not punishing at all. I think it's about whether the gun wants to twist in my hand when shooting it.

Posted by: Splunge at March 09, 2025 09:41 PM (afZ9r)

310 Will Weasel be spared?

Posted by: Duncanthrax at March 09, 2025 09:41 PM (JsD5q)

311 Gunfights don’t discriminate regarding the weather. Do pistols perform differently at all in the pouring rain?

Posted by: nurse ratched at March 09, 2025 09:19 PM (mT+6a)
+++++
Or wearing warm clothing and gloves during the the winter.

I practice drawing wearing gloves, and it is radically different!
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo
=====

Mil-spec ARs have that hinged lower portion of the trigger guard.
For when you are shooting wearing mittens or full MOPP gear.
M-249s too. Nor sure about M-60s or 240s.

Useful for if you are on patrol during the zombie apocalypse and it is minus ten out.

Posted by: Itinerant Alley Butcher at March 09, 2025 09:42 PM (/lPRQ)

312 245 Schnorf, I know this comes close to math, but that’s about one a minute.
Posted by: RI Red at March 09, 2025 09:01 PM (62FZE)

I was told there would be no math!

Posted by: Schnorflepuppy - OT but harmless at March 09, 2025 09:42 PM (v23vE)

313 I did pretty good with the spring-loaded torso target. Hit hostile with two separate shots behind the ear, both hits touching. And that's while Louis was jerking the ropes like a maniac. He was impressed.
Posted by: mrp
========
Excellent. Thanks for explaining his training. I'll go back and watch some of his videos again as it has been awhile.

Posted by: whig at March 09, 2025 09:42 PM (ctrM5)

314 Posted by: Duncanthrax at March 09, 2025 09:41 PM (JsD5q)
----
Yes! Thanks everyone!

Posted by: Weasel at March 09, 2025 09:42 PM (TIRHP)

315 Weasel, there are not enough thank yous for everything you do. Just know how appreciated you are.

Posted by: Ben Had at March 09, 2025 09:43 PM (mB6WH)

316 Thanks Horde and thanks Weasel!

Posted by: TRex at March 09, 2025 09:43 PM (IQ6Gq)

317 G'night, all. Time to punch out. See y'all in the Morning Report.

Posted by: RedMindBlueState at March 09, 2025 09:44 PM (Wnv9h)

318 Weasel, there are not enough thank yous for everything you do. Just know how appreciated you are.
Posted by: Ben Had at March 09, 2025 09:43 PM (mB6WH)
----
Thanks! I gave up trying to keep up with you!

Posted by: Weasel at March 09, 2025 09:44 PM (TIRHP)

319 Excellent. Thanks for explaining his training. I'll go back and watch some of his videos again as it has been awhile.
Posted by: whig at March 09, 2025 09:42 PM (ctrM5)

To be clear, that was a slug drill. The Student get only one shot and has to make it count. Louis couldn't believe my first shot, so he told me to try that again. Second shot touched the first (which had been taped). One of my best days ever.

Posted by: mrp at March 09, 2025 09:45 PM (rj6Yv)

320 I was told there would be no math!
Posted by: Schnorflepuppy - OT but harmless at March 09, 2025 09:42 PM

You believed us.

Posted by: David Hogg, Harvard graduate and Vice-Chairpysyn Democrat Party at March 09, 2025 09:45 PM (JsD5q)

321 Been a bad week. Hopefully I can read through everything.

I hope everyone is ok.

Posted by: GWB at March 09, 2025 09:47 PM (x4LL+)

322 Thanks, Weasel. Always appreciated.

Posted by: Notorious BFD at March 09, 2025 09:47 PM (mH6SG)

323 309 I've gotta think that fit to the hand has something to do with felt recoil and wrist punishment. My S&W 6904, I can barely stand to shoot, it's so punishing, and I think that's a steel frame. My aluminum-framed Wilson SFX9 is not punishing at all. I think it's about whether the gun wants to twist in my hand when shooting it.
Posted by: Splunge
-------
Fit does have something to do with it. I have the aluminum framed 6946 as a backup to my steel framed 5946 (you can use a 5900 mag in a 6900 in a pinch. The 6900 series, off hand, is about 10-12 oz lighter than the 5900 series and has a 3.5 or so barrel versus a 4 inch with less length to grip with. Robertson's Trading Post in Tennesee has some custom made magazine grip adapters so that you can use a 15-17 round 5900 magazine in your 6904. Offers more surface to hold plus more lead pills.

If your fingers are long enough, you might want to add a rubber sleeve over the grip aka grip sock which might help also tame the recoil a bit. Hogue makes them.

Posted by: whig at March 09, 2025 09:48 PM (ctrM5)

324 I see cowboys wearing gloves and shooting all the time on old movies and TV shows.

Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at March 09, 2025 09:49 PM (63Dwl)

325 I took the shotgun course with a Remington 870 Marine Magnum. After the course, I put a Scattergun Technology adjustable ghost ring sight on it and a Trijicon front sight + a sidesaddle shell holder. Scattergun was later bought out by Wilson Combat.

Posted by: mrp at March 09, 2025 09:49 PM (rj6Yv)

326 To be clear, that was a slug drill. The Student get only one shot and has to make it count. Louis couldn't believe my first shot, so he told me to try that again. Second shot touched the first (which had been taped). One of my best days ever.
Posted by: mrp
=========
Gotta be a barrel chested man to shoot slugs like that at a twisting target. I thought you were discussing the handgun course. Damn good shooting. You were zeroed in. Wow.

Posted by: whig at March 09, 2025 09:49 PM (ctrM5)

327 Local gun shop has a semi auto belt fed M249 for only $10,000. I was actually giving it some thought, until I read that the semi auto design has an 11 lb. trigger pull.

Just thinking about trying to pull an 11 lb trigger, 100 times per minute, makes my trigger finger hurt.

100 rounds a minute times 50 cents per round equals $50 per minute of fun. What other fun I could have that costs $50 per minute? I'd rather not think about it.

Posted by: Idaho Spudboy at March 09, 2025 09:50 PM (Uh8P4)

328 324 I see cowboys wearing gloves and shooting all the time on old movies and TV shows.
Posted by: Bertram Cabot
========
You wore gloves to protect your hands from ropes, barbed wire, reins, etc. and had to learn to shoot with them on. Old West was not big on formal duels.

Posted by: whig at March 09, 2025 09:51 PM (ctrM5)

329 325 I took the shotgun course with a Remington 870 Marine Magnum. After the course, I put a Scattergun Technology adjustable ghost ring sight on it and a Trijicon front sight + a sidesaddle shell holder. Scattergun was later bought out by Wilson Combat.
Posted by: mrp

I have twelve gauges both semi auto and pump as well as an inherited 16 Gauge, 28 gauge, and a twenty. I used the twenty gauge for home defense as my wife and I could both shoot it. Put night sight bead on it along with half ghost ring but had to use a buttstock reloading technique. Still loaded up with alternating buck shot, slug, buck shot. Firing slugs out of it still wore me out and you shooting 12 gauge slugs throughout a course would have flattened me.

Posted by: whig at March 09, 2025 09:54 PM (ctrM5)

330 That movie is a rerun. No biggie tho.

Posted by: t-dubya-d at March 09, 2025 09:54 PM (RjlXJ)

331 100 rounds a minute times 50 cents per round equals $50 per minute of fun. What other fun I could have that costs $50 per minute? I'd rather not think about it.
Posted by: Idaho Spudboy
=========
Go to Battleground Vegas, they have a lot of fun bang tools if you want the full auto experience. Unfortunately the ultimate auto bang show, Knob Creek in KY is no more.

Henderson Defense (parent company of Battleground Vegas) had a long running thread on AR15 dot com regarding how components and firearms held up to high volume full auto shooting. Basic torture tests with full mag dumps, etc. until the barrels got so worn to keyhole rounds.

Useful for knowing what parts to keep on hand for ready repairs and repair cycles.

Posted by: whig at March 09, 2025 09:57 PM (ctrM5)

332 You were zeroed in. Wow.
Posted by: whig at March 09, 2025 09:49 PM (ctrM5)

Thanks. What that drill taught me is that with a shotgun, you don't shoot AT the target. You shoot where the target will be in 1/2 to 1 second from SHOOT NOW.

Posted by: mrp at March 09, 2025 09:59 PM (rj6Yv)

333 Well, goodnight everyone and Thanks again Weasel for having us here.

Posted by: whig at March 09, 2025 09:59 PM (ctrM5)

334 >> Local gun shop has a semi auto belt fed M249 for only $10,000.

Good Lord, how much does the full auto cost?

Posted by: Disinterested FDA Director at March 09, 2025 09:59 PM (rUMMM)

335 Still loaded up with alternating buck shot, slug, buck shot. Firing slugs out of it still wore me out and you shooting 12 gauge slugs throughout a course would have flattened me.
Posted by: whig at March 09, 2025 09:54 PM (ctrM5)

I felt wrung out by the end of day 3. I was a lot younger then, too.

Posted by: mrp at March 09, 2025 10:02 PM (rj6Yv)

336 If Jim gets to read this, we miss ya and are keeping you in our prayers.
Posted by: whig

what Whig said!
Posted by: AZ deplorable moron at March 09, 2025 08:12 PM (Owkv7)

AZ Deplorable, please shoot me a phone call or text if you are able! Good to see you here. Osprey and I will be on the road to N. Carolina tomorrow morning. Back in under 2 weeks.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at March 09, 2025 10:02 PM (8zz6B)

337 'night Whig. 'night All!

Posted by: mrp at March 09, 2025 10:03 PM (rj6Yv)

338 >> Local gun shop has a semi auto belt fed M249 for only $10,000.

Good Lord, how much does the full auto cost?
Posted by: Disinterested FDA Director
====

$2500 with spare barrel.
But you cannot buy it at any price.

Posted by: Itinerant Alley Butcher at March 09, 2025 10:03 PM (/lPRQ)

339 Thanks. What that drill taught me is that with a shotgun, you don't shoot AT the target. You shoot where the target will be in 1/2 to 1 second from SHOOT NOW.
Posted by: mrp
=======
That is one of the reasons I am still fond of my A-5 Browning (old humpback), sort of like a Glock in that the wide top leads you to the target. PITA to detail clean and you had to pay attention to the friction rings when shooting different loads but JMB knew how to make his firearms usable.

Given it still has a suicide safety (20's model), I would not use it for self defense (family heirloom and all that) plus the 28 inch barrel would be a pain. So I used the utilitarian 20 gauge Mossberg pump instead for home defense duties.

Posted by: whig at March 09, 2025 10:03 PM (ctrM5)

340 Ont up

Posted by: Lurking Cheshirecat at March 09, 2025 10:04 PM (w3u3d)

341 Hello everyone, and thanks Weasel.

Nothing firearms related to contribute, but want to say:

Jim Sunk New Dawn - keep fighting the good fight, sir.

Posted by: haffhowershower at March 09, 2025 10:10 PM (NMT5x)

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