THE MORNING RANT: Why Didn’t Principled Free Traders Argue That Canada Would <i>Benefit</i> from Trump’s Tariffs, Since They Advocate that the U.S. Benefits from Surrendering to Foreign Mercantilism?

THE MORNING RANT: Why Didn’t Principled Free Traders Argue That Canada Would Benefit from Trump’s Tariffs, Since They Advocate that the U.S. Benefits from Surrendering to Foreign Mercantilism?

The great North American Trade War lasted almost a day before both Mexico and Canada bowed the knee. In the face of proposed 25% U.S. tariffs on goods imported from those countries, both Mexico and Canada quickly promised actions demanded by President Trump, specifically to stop allowing their borders to be a supply route for an army of narco-terrorists who use fentanyl as a weapon of mass destruction against U.S. citizens.

For the national economies of both Canada and Mexico, the United States is their major export market, and both are heavily dependent on access to the U.S. If a 25% tariff were imposed on our neighbors, it would obviously be devastating to them. Or would it?

Principled Free Traders have argued ad nauseum that tariffs only hurt the country imposing the tariffs, and therefore the United States’ appropriate response to trade barriers and tariffs imposed on us by countries such as China should be no response at all. Instead, they argue that we should just continue to import their goods, even though our exports are blocked. In other words, they argue that the U.S. should unilaterally surrender to foreign mercantilism. So why shouldn’t Canada unilaterally surrender to U.S. trade barriers and just live with crushing U.S. tariffs?

In the words of a prominent Principled Free Trader whom I often quote, “Trade isn’t fair. Americans should pray it never gets fair.” Well shouldn’t Canadians also then revel in the United States imposing unfair tariffs on their country. I scanned the Twitter feeds and bylines of some of the Principled Free Traders I follow and I couldn’t find anything resembling a think piece advising Canadians that “Trade isn’t fair. Canadians should pray that it never gets fair.”

The arguments that these unilateral free traders consistently make include:

• “Tariffs are a tax on consumers.” Yet there was widespread consensus that Canada would have to issue retaliatory tariffs on the U.S. Where were the free traders, and why weren’t they scolding Canada for imposing a “tax on its consumers” with their proposed retaliatory tariffs?

• “Consumers enjoy lower prices in countries that don’t impose tariffs.” Again, shouldn’t the free traders have been imploring Canada to preserve lower consumer prices by unilaterally surrendering to America’s tariffs?

• “Tariffs hurt the country that imposes the tariffs.” Japan and South Korea famously imposed protective tariffs against the US auto industry to keep American automobiles out of their markets in the post-war era and beyond. The free traders will argue that this only hurt those countries, as you can tell by how badly their auto industries are...thriving. Anyhow, if tariffs hurt the tariffing country, shouldn’t Canadians have punished the United States by doing absolutely nothing in response to American tariffs? That would teach us a harsh lesson according to free trade principles.

• “Outsourcing jobs to countries that impose tariffs helps consumers.” When an American plant closes and the jobs go to a foreign country with protective tariffs that block American goods, the free traders rejoice. If they were truly principled, you’d think they’d be consistent and suggest that Canadian manufacturers could simply move jobs to the U.S. to avoid our tariffs and gain access to our market. Of course, the free traders would never suggest that, because their objective is to eliminate American manufacturing jobs, not increase them.

• “People who lose their jobs due to offshoring can simply find better jobs.” Again, if Canadian manufacturers would just move their jobs to the U.S. to avoid the tariffs, then those displaced Canadian workers would have a great opportunity to go find better jobs outside of manufacturing.

Let me offer up here that I generally favor reciprocal free trade with Canada, and that I do not desire a nasty trade war with our northern neighbor. But I absolutely support Trump threatening (and imposing if necessary) a harsh tariff to compel Canada to stop allowing narco-criminals access to my country. I’m also pretty disgusted to have learned that despite the North American Free Trade Agreement, Canada has continued to block American dairy products by imposing high tariffs. “Free trade” that blocks American agricultural products is not what I understood free trade to mean.

Last weekend, before the U.S. – Canada tariff issue was (temporarily?) resolved, The Free Press published a story on just how painful the tariffs would be for Canada.

“I Don’t Think My Business Can Survive These Tariffs: Small-business owners in Canada are girding themselves for the pain of Trump’s trade war”

It’s hard to overstate the harm Trump-imposed tariffs could do to Canada.
Trevor Tombe, an economist at the University of Calgary who has modeled the impact of a 25 percent tariff on the Canadian economy, told me he sees “an economic hit to Canada that is roughly equivalent to your typical recession, resulting in a 2.6 percent drop in Canada’s GDP.”

That’s weird, because the Principled Free Traders have assured me that here in the United States, the destruction of as many industries as possible, and putting as many Americans as possible out of work, actually strengthens a country’s economy.

Small businesses are especially at risk. In 2022, 81.8 percent of Canadian small business exports went to the United States. These companies are so dependent on cross-border trade that Trump’s 25 percent tariff, coupled with Canada’s retaliatory tariffs, will likely affect 82 percent of them, according to a survey by the Canadian Federation of Independent Business.

Interesting. Apparently it would be deleterious to Canada’s economy if its industrial exports were eliminated. That certainly makes sense, but the free traders have told me repeatedly that their ideal is for the United States to import 100% of our products, with all of our manufacturing offshored. If losing the export component of the economy is good for the U.S., shouldn’t it also be good for Canada?

In fact, pragmatic Canadian businesses are already considering heading south: “With these tariffs, we will either sell the business to a U.S. company or move our business there,” Darrin Smith told me.

Huh? So if the tariffs are imposed, Canadian manufacturers would have to move manufacturing to the United States and create jobs here if they want access to our market? Apparently so…

[The founder and CEO of Canadian clothing brand Sophie Grace] told me that with a quarter of her sales coming from the U.S., she is one of those considering a move. To her, it is a simple matter of getting “behind the tariff wall,” she said.

I don’t want to see Canada harmed, and I don’t want to see Canadians hurting, but I’m glad that the threat of punitive tariffs compelled the Canadian government to respond to the national security crisis at our border. I hope that the 25% tariffs don’t ultimately have to be imposed.

That said, if there is a near consensus that “Trump’s tariffs” and a massive loss of jobs would be devastating to Canada, how is there an intellectual argument that when the same actions are taken against the United States in the name of “free trade” that it’s not equally harmful to our country?

[buck.throckmorton at protonmail dot com]

Posted by: Buck Throckmorton at 11:00 AM

Comments

(Jump to bottom of comments)

1 1st?

Posted by: Bulg at February 07, 2025 11:00 AM (77rzZ)

2 Sponge

Posted by: Commissar of Plenty and Lysenkoism in Solidarity with the Struggle for festive little hats at February 07, 2025 11:01 AM (0frSS)

3 All right!!! I'll call 'em.

Posted by: Bulg at February 07, 2025 11:01 AM (77rzZ)

4 'Em status: Called.

Posted by: Bulg at February 07, 2025 11:02 AM (77rzZ)

5 huh?

Posted by: actually inside the beltway at February 07, 2025 11:02 AM (LVNnd)

6 top 10

Posted by: Sturmtoddler at February 07, 2025 11:02 AM (nXhwP)

7 Art of the deal.

Posted by: BignJames at February 07, 2025 11:03 AM (Yj6Os)

8 America will survive a temporary spike in the price of poutine.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero43) at February 07, 2025 11:03 AM (hY4dx)

9 willowed: I ever tell you that I went to high school in Fort Wayne?
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, watching B-movies with Roger Corman at February 07, 2025 11:02 AM (GBKbO)

What?! That's cool. Born in Elkhart and live in Indy for 5 or 6 years before heading to the mitten.

Posted by: BruceWayne at February 07, 2025 11:04 AM (MGB5H)

10 To all Principled Free Traders (tm):

FUCK THE FUCK OFF ON THE LAST TRAIN TO FUCKSVILLE

I'm so sick of their whiny bullshit that is clearly nothing but partisan politics and paid-for simpy pimping disguised as pseudo-economics.

Posted by: Elric The Blade at February 07, 2025 11:04 AM (iFTx/)

11 What?! That's cool. Born in Elkhart and live in Indy for 5 or 6 years before heading to the mitten.
Posted by: BruceWayne

Hey, Bruce. I grew up in Cassopolis.

Posted by: Bulg at February 07, 2025 11:05 AM (77rzZ)

12 This discussion can never be complete without the cutting-edge insights of Paul Krugman.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero43) at February 07, 2025 11:05 AM (hY4dx)

13 9 What?! That's cool. Born in Elkhart and live in Indy for 5 or 6 years before heading to the mitten.
Posted by: BruceWayne at February 07, 2025 11:04 AM (MGB5H)

=====

Yeah, just three years I lived there (Sophomore through Senior year).

I haven't been back in, like, 20 years though. Probably never gonna go back.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, watching B-movies with Roger Corman at February 07, 2025 11:05 AM (GBKbO)

14 *Looks through drawers for "Made In Canada" stuff*

- half hour later -

*gives up*

Posted by: Martini Farmer at February 07, 2025 11:05 AM (Q4IgG)

15 We have to get support services in place to deal with those addicted to fentanyl. When the supply stops, they will go mad.

Posted by: Notsothoreau at February 07, 2025 11:05 AM (EV2jz)

16 Why Didn’t Principled Free Traders Argue That Canada Would Benefit from Trump’s Tariffs, Since They Advocate that the U.S. Benefits from Surrendering to Foreign Mercantilism?

It's a trick question!

Posted by: Grump928(C) at February 07, 2025 11:06 AM (aD39U)

17 Canada's 400% tariff on American butter says what?

Posted by: mikeski at February 07, 2025 11:06 AM (DgGvY)

18 "Perhaps we have been misled?"

"That's not likely, is it?"

Posted by: no one of any consequence at February 07, 2025 11:06 AM (ZmEVT)

19 But I wonder if Canada is going to actually stop criminals and fentanyl or is this a big $1.5 Billion Hollywood production.

Posted by: Stateless...34% - mental state clawing up from 10% at February 07, 2025 11:06 AM (jvJvP)

20 Former Enron Financial Advisor Paul Krugman

Posted by: AoSHQ Stylebook at February 07, 2025 11:06 AM (aD39U)

21 To me it's always carrots and sticks being used, always wonder does a shilling even get exchanged or withheld?

Posted by: Skip at February 07, 2025 11:07 AM (fwDg9)

22 top 100?

Posted by: Bonecrusher at February 07, 2025 11:07 AM (JNTt1)

23 "I’m glad that the threat of punitive tariffs compelled the Canadian [and Mexican] government to respond to the national security crisis at our border."

How soon do you think it will be before we see a resulting reduction in illicit fentanyl sales in the USA?

Posted by: The Smell Of The gp, The Roar Of The Crowd at February 07, 2025 11:07 AM (u01/w)

24 Principled Free Traders

I wonder how many PFTs are funded via USAID grants.

Isn't it weird that, seemingly, the purpose of the US for at least the past 30 some-odd years has been the destruction of the US?

Posted by: I used to have a different nic at February 07, 2025 11:07 AM (ExV1e)

25 Winnipeg Jets are playing well this year and beat the Caps in DC last weekend. Will this be the year the Stanley Cup returns to Canuckistan?

Posted by: The Great White North at February 07, 2025 11:07 AM (G5+As)

26 Yeah, just three years I lived there (Sophomore through Senior year).

I haven't been back in, like, 20 years though. Probably never gonna go back.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, watching B-movies with Roger Corman at February 07, 2025 11:05 AM (GBKbO)

Ya Fort Wayne is not the best place. We still have a couple fam members in northern IN, but I havent been back since a couple years out of college and thats when I lived in Chicago and it was a quick easy trip.

Posted by: BruceWayne at February 07, 2025 11:09 AM (MGB5H)

27 We have to get support services in place to deal with those addicted to fentanyl. When the supply stops, they will go mad.
Posted by: Notsothoreau at February 07, 2025 11:05 AM (EV2jz)

Then you can shoot them.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at February 07, 2025 11:09 AM (8zz6B)

28 Excellent post. Thank you.

Posted by: Rufus T. Firefly at February 07, 2025 11:10 AM (mEJdU)

29 Hey, Bruce. I grew up in Cassopolis.
Posted by: Bulg at February 07, 2025 11:05 AM (77rzZ)

HAH! another hoosier/michigander! nice

Posted by: BruceWayne at February 07, 2025 11:10 AM (MGB5H)

30
Perhaps what would help sort out whether any pundit is worth listening to would be a system that communicates what amount of USAID funding has been put in that pundit's pockets over, say, the last twenty years?

Cards on the table, and all that.

Posted by: Krebs v Carnot: Epic Battle of the Cycling Stars (TM) at February 07, 2025 11:10 AM (xG4kz)

31 With the death of USAID and likewise fraud throughout all the Executive Branch Agencies; these Principaled Free Traders (PFTs) will get quiet because no one will pay for them to spew their toxic, lying, bullshit anymore.

Posted by: Bonecrusher at February 07, 2025 11:11 AM (JNTt1)

32 Where have you gone, Mayor Chestfeeder
A nation turns its lonely eyes to you
Whoo hoo hoo

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero43) at February 07, 2025 11:11 AM (hY4dx)

33 At the National Post, one of their journalists (J.D. Tuccille) writes this article:

Canada and Mexico pull a fast one on Trump

The two countries essentially agreed to do what they had already been doing in return for temporary tariff relief

https://tinyurl.com/29y3eby8

Except I don't think we actually were doing, we had just said we were going to do, but probably didn't commit with actual action. Trump's tariff threat spurred action.

Trudeau's a blow-hard and makes a lot of promises he never follows through on (in fact, that's pretty much all of them.)

Threats have to be credible. Trump's are.

Posted by: Grumpy and Recalcitrant at February 07, 2025 11:11 AM (O7YUW)

34 30
Perhaps what would help sort out whether any pundit is worth listening to would be a system that communicates what amount of USAID funding has been put in that pundit's pockets over, say, the last twenty years?

Cards on the table, and all that.
Posted by: Krebs v Carnot: Epic Battle of the Cycling Stars (TM) at February 07, 2025 11:10 AM (xG4kz)

-----------

Call it the National Credibility Index

Politico goes at the bottom.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero43) at February 07, 2025 11:12 AM (hY4dx)

35
Pete Buttgiggity for U. S. Senator!

The Carpetbagging Jag with the Tits that Sag

Posted by: Krebs v Carnot: Epic Battle of the Cycling Stars (TM) at February 07, 2025 11:12 AM (xG4kz)

36 nicely written buck. the free part is what most free traders keep forgetting in their vocal support of free trade policies.

Posted by: Sturmtoddler at February 07, 2025 11:13 AM (nXhwP)

37 Threats have to be credible. Trump's are.
Posted by: Grumpy and Recalcitrant

"Don't call my bluff."

Posted by: The JEF at February 07, 2025 11:13 AM (DgGvY)

38 I have a nice backgammon board from Canada.

And I recall a long time ago when I was fixing my own car that some parts came from Canada.

That's about it.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at February 07, 2025 11:13 AM (g0MSz)

39 At the National Post, one of their journalists (J.D. Tuccille) writes this article:

Canada and Mexico pull a fast one on Trump

The two countries essentially agreed to do what they had already been doing in return for temporary tariff relief

They can tell themselves whatever makes them feel good as long as they do what we tell them to.

Take the win.

Posted by: Grump928(C) at February 07, 2025 11:13 AM (aD39U)

40 33 The two countries essentially agreed to do what they had already been doing in return for temporary tariff relief

https://tinyurl.com/29y3eby8

Except I don't think we actually were doing, we had just said we were going to do, but probably didn't commit with actual action. Trump's tariff threat spurred action.

Trudeau's a blow-hard and makes a lot of promises he never follows through on (in fact, that's pretty much all of them.)

Threats have to be credible. Trump's are.
Posted by: Grumpy and Recalcitrant at February 07, 2025 11:11 AM (O7YUW)

======

"essentially agreed to do what they had already been doing"

Why the weasel word essentially?

Because it's not the case that Mexico and Canada had agreed to exactly what they had been already doing. They added things.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, watching B-movies with Roger Corman at February 07, 2025 11:13 AM (GBKbO)

41 I should see about moving a big chunk of my RRIF (self-administered retirement fund) into USD-denominated investments, and putting some into physical gold, too. I think the Loonie is about to go into free fall.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at February 07, 2025 11:13 AM (8zz6B)

42 To correctly calculate that, you would also need the volume and density (from which you could calculate the mass), numbers which are not supplied.
Posted by: Wesley Crusher at February 07, 2025 11:02 AM (a3Q+t)

Those were given in the article.

Average volume around one teaspoon, density one gram per milliliter.

Posted by: one hour sober at February 07, 2025 11:13 AM (Y1sOo)

43 "We have to get support services in place to deal with those addicted to fentanyl. When the supply stops, they will go mad."

They'll use some other substance.

Posted by: The Smell Of The gp, The Roar Of The Crowd at February 07, 2025 11:14 AM (u01/w)

44 @17/mikeski: "Canada's 400% tariff on American butter says what?"

Balls! It's that high? Canada has this supply-side driven quota system on dairy to "protect our farmers" that only results in stupidly high prices for milk, butter, cheese and other dairy products. In conjunction with that, they put tariffs on foreign products and only allow so much in the way of foreign imports in the dairy sector.

I hate this arrangement so much and I regularly refer to them as "The Dairy Cartel".

Personally I'd love to see this whole domestic dairy protectionism and supply-side nonsense smashed to bits.

Posted by: Grumpy and Recalcitrant at February 07, 2025 11:14 AM (O7YUW)

45 Greenland and Panama are up for purchase, why not Prince Edward Island? Only a tenth of one percent of Canada's population lives there. Nice isolated place to put all those troublesome Gazans.

Posted by: Giving Trump A Call at February 07, 2025 11:15 AM (G5+As)

46 That's about it.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at February 07, 2025 11:13 AM (g0MSz)

What about the maple syrup for your French Toast?

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at February 07, 2025 11:15 AM (8zz6B)

47 When Canada saw they were about to become Snow Mexico with a currency trading on par with the peso, they got their mind right real quick.

What was more pathetic was all the US lefties, cheering in anticipation, thinking Canada would best Trump.

LOLGF

Posted by: People's Hippo Voice at February 07, 2025 11:15 AM (cFx13)

48 Fraudulent ASAID spending ain't the story...been going on for years....doing something about it is the story.

Posted by: BignJames at February 07, 2025 11:15 AM (Yj6Os)

49 23 Put another way, how will we measure the success of the CanMex capitulation induced by the succesful tariff threat?

Posted by: The Smell Of The gp, The Roar Of The Crowd at February 07, 2025 11:15 AM (u01/w)

50 43 "We have to get support services in place to deal with those addicted to fentanyl. When the supply stops, they will go mad."

They'll use some other substance.
Posted by: The Smell Of The gp, The Roar Of The Crowd at February 07, 2025 11:14 AM (u01/w)

---------

JT Marlin upgrades Consolidated Gold Spray Paint Corp. to STRONG BUY

Posted by: JT Marlin at February 07, 2025 11:16 AM (hY4dx)

51 [The founder and CEO of Canadian clothing brand Sophie Grace] told me that with a quarter of her sales coming from the U.S., she is one of those considering a move. To her, it is a simple matter of getting “behind the tariff wall,” she said.

My family was in Germany in the 1970s because my father's company was starting up a plant there to get around the Common Market tariffs. This kind of move has a long pedigree.

Posted by: Grump928(C) at February 07, 2025 11:16 AM (aD39U)

52 @40/TheJamesMadison: "Why the weasel word essentially?"

Because he's a journalist and they tend to be a pack of lying suckweasels?

Posted by: Grumpy and Recalcitrant at February 07, 2025 11:17 AM (O7YUW)

53 Winnipeg Jets are playing well this year and beat the Caps in DC last weekend. Will this be the year the Stanley Cup returns to Canuckistan?
Posted by: The Great White North at February 07, 2025 11:07 AM (G5+As)

not a chance. they have to overcome both the president's cup curse AND being canadian...

Posted by: Sturmtoddler at February 07, 2025 11:17 AM (nXhwP)

54 52 @40/TheJamesMadison: "Why the weasel word essentially?"

Because he's a journalist and they tend to be a pack of lying suckweasels?

Posted by: Grumpy and Recalcitrant at February 07, 2025 11:17 AM (O7YUW)

=====

Seems fair. Essentially.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, watching B-movies with Roger Corman at February 07, 2025 11:17 AM (GBKbO)

55 ‘ I’m glad that the threat of punitive tariffs compelled the Canadian government to respond to the national security crisis at our border’

I’m not a free trade absolutist but I think the general welfare is served by both countries paying no tariffs.
However, I think tariffs should be available as a weapon of persuasion to correct countries that either cause a national security threat or have some other anti-American policies.

Posted by: Dr. Claw at February 07, 2025 11:17 AM (jbnUc)

56 Winnipeg Jets are playing well this year and beat the Caps in DC last weekend. Will this be the year the Stanley Cup returns to Canuckistan?
Posted by: The Great White North at February 07, 2025 11:07 AM (G5+As)

Absolutely not. But USA v Canada is tomorrow!

Posted by: BruceWayne at February 07, 2025 11:17 AM (MGB5H)

57 24 Principled Free Traders

I wonder how many PFTs are funded via USAID grants.

Isn't it weird that, seemingly, the purpose of the US for at least the past 30 some-odd years has been the destruction of the US?
Posted by: I used to have a different nic
========
Our ruling class decided after WWI and WWII, that nationalism would not be permitted and the US ruling class became fascinated with globalism. The older transaction types put the US at a disadvantage in trade after WWII so that a devastated Europe and Japan could be rebuilt so as to not become Commies.

Over time, that faded into absolute free trade idiocy which was aided by our nat sec funding of it and expanded foreign influence on US politics.

We let China in the WTO because our ruling class believed that trading partners do not go to war against each other and other such airy fairy bullshit (before WWI--Germany and Britain were each other's largest trading partners for example).

I never believed much of the econ theory I was taught as an undergrad in economics because I had a grounding in history before matriculation.

Posted by: whig at February 07, 2025 11:17 AM (ctrM5)

58 "JT Marlin upgrades Consolidated Gold Spray Paint Corp. to STRONG BUY"

In Romania, I think the preferred huffing brand is named Aurolac.

Posted by: The Smell Of The gp, The Roar Of The Crowd at February 07, 2025 11:18 AM (u01/w)

59 Back in the late 1980s and early 1990s, Richardson TX was the cheaper alternative to Canadian developers. Nortel (Northern Telecom, and other names) created development centers in the US to get around various tax laws.

Posted by: Richard Cranium at February 07, 2025 11:18 AM (KY9Sa)

60 Ace inspired this post, right, Buck?

Posted by: pookysgirl, trying to get a wiggleworm to sleep at February 07, 2025 11:18 AM (Wt5PA)

61 Call it the National Credibility Index

Politico goes at the bottom.
Posted by: Cicero (@cicero43) at February 07, 2025 11:12 AM (hY4dx)

The Kristol Index

Posted by: Warai-otoko at February 07, 2025 11:20 AM (VoAdT)

62 19
‘ Canada is going to actually stop criminals and fentanyl or is this a big $1.5 Billion Hollywood production.’

If Canada does something other than what they agree to, we’ll figure it out and make it a very expensive decision for them.

Posted by: Dr. Claw at February 07, 2025 11:20 AM (jbnUc)

63 "essentially agreed to do what they had already been doing"
---
This is what they are portraying as a "win."

Pay me the $500 you owe me.
I will essentially pay you the $500 next week.
I'm sending my guys over now to collect.
Here's the $500.
Good. And next month's payment better not be late.

Posted by: People's Hippo Voice at February 07, 2025 11:20 AM (cFx13)

64 "If Canada does something other than what they agree to, we’ll figure it out"

How?

Posted by: The Smell Of The gp, The Roar Of The Crowd at February 07, 2025 11:21 AM (u01/w)

65 Why?

Sometimes the simplest explanation is the best -
Not so much the are pro-Canada or pro-Mexico,
They are simply anti-American.

Posted by: Itinerant Alley Butcher at February 07, 2025 11:21 AM (/lPRQ)

66 How soon do you think it will be before we see a resulting reduction in illicit fentanyl sales in the USA?
Posted by: The Smell Of The gp, The Roar Of The Crowd at February 07, 2025 11:07 AM (u01/w)

I'd venture never. A. We want the drugs (for some definition of we). B. We have an entire public health infrastructure that props up drugheads. We'd have to get as serious about the demand end as the supply one to fix this. I don't believe we want to (again for some definition of we).

Posted by: bear with asymmetrical balls at February 07, 2025 11:21 AM (44PAK)

67 They'll use some other substance.
Posted by: The Smell Of The gp, The Roar Of The Crowd

In NYC parks in 1966 you could catch a good buzz for 59 cents. Tube of Testor's model glue and a small paper sack.

Posted by: Huffin' Hank at February 07, 2025 11:22 AM (G5+As)

68 How soon do you think it will be before we see a resulting reduction in illicit fentanyl sales in the USA?
Posted by: The Smell Of The gp, The Roar Of The Crowd at February 07, 2025 11:07 AM (u01/w)

When the CIA is dismantled.

Posted by: BruceWayne at February 07, 2025 11:22 AM (MGB5H)

69 "We'd have to get as serious about the demand end as the supply one to fix this."

Agreed.

Posted by: The Smell Of The gp, The Roar Of The Crowd at February 07, 2025 11:22 AM (u01/w)

70 What's the Canadian daily tariff? 200%?

Posted by: From about That Time at February 07, 2025 11:22 AM (4780s)

71 "Canada's 400% tariff on American butter says what?"

Balls! It's that high? Canada has this supply-side driven quota system on dairy to "protect our farmers" that only results in stupidly high prices for milk, butter, cheese and other dairy products.Posted by: Grumpy and Recalcitrant

Should have been 300%, sorry. I was going from memory from a comment here a few days ago.

Or, per the Canadian govt's own tariff calculator website:

298.5% but not less than $4.00/kg

Posted by: mikeski at February 07, 2025 11:23 AM (DgGvY)

72 I had a '92 Camaro convertible that was built in Canada. Solid car. 305 cu. in. V8. Manual trans. Sold it to my son. He sold it to a friend. The friend still has it.

Posted by: no one of any consequence at February 07, 2025 11:23 AM (ZmEVT)

73 I’m not a free trade absolutist but I think the general welfare is served by both countries paying no tariffs.
However, I think tariffs should be available as a weapon of persuasion to correct countries that either cause a national security threat or have some other anti-American policies.
Posted by: Dr. Claw

Doesn't work unless you have something like the US which is essentially a tariff free trading bloc. The EU has failed simply because to do that requires not only a centralized monetary authority but unified fiscal policy of its members with free flows of people and capital. In the US, the great migration in the US from the South to the North to work in factories and the commensurate move back to the South when its labor was viewed as cheap compared to the North are examples. But when coupled with country sovereignty, language differences, and culture, the whole thing blows up and that is leaving out central banks tinkering with exchange rates to subsidize exports at the cost of imports.

Doesn't work without those free flows of capital, labor, and government fiscal policy.

In the real world, most macro economic policy has to be based on national interests.

Posted by: whig at February 07, 2025 11:24 AM (ctrM5)

74 Casey DeSantis considering FL Gov run.

https://tinyurl.com/5aubmn6t

Posted by: BruceWayne at February 07, 2025 11:24 AM (MGB5H)

75 Free Traders: The United States most ALWAYS FREE TRADE OR DEMOCRACY DIES!!!!11

Rest of the world: lulz

Posted by: The Unvaxed and Unmasked Ranger - China is Assho And Void of Freedom Loving Wagshambas at February 07, 2025 11:24 AM (HYKHz)

76 I’m not a free trade absolutist but I think the general welfare is served by both countries paying no tariffs.
However, I think tariffs should be available as a weapon of persuasion to correct countries that either cause a national security threat or have some other anti-American policies.
Posted by: Dr. Claw at February 07, 2025 11:17 AM (jbnUc)

The UK, oddly enough, is rapidly bringing me around to the idea of protecting critical industries. The idea that it's okay to import the food needed to feed your populace, for example, seems like a bad idea. Ditto the idea that you should import critical defense components from your most likely geo-political foe.

Posted by: I used to have a different nic at February 07, 2025 11:24 AM (ExV1e)

77 Good points Buck.

Posted by: ... at February 07, 2025 11:24 AM (Ja2Pp)

78 My aunt R has passed away. Aunt D and uncle G left us in 2023. Now R is gone. She was the last and the oldest. Mom and both of her sisters. Dad and his only brother.
The people who were such a huge part of my childhood and life in general are gone.
My brothers and most of our cousins remain. We've lost two of our cousins, one to a welding accident and one to a drug overdose.
And now the generation that raised us, taught us, fed us, and gave us love and advice is gone.
Damn.

Posted by: Madame Mayhem (uppity wench) at February 07, 2025 11:25 AM (4XwPj)

79 As an old boss of mine used to complain, "There you go, being Logical again!"

Posted by: Beverly at February 07, 2025 11:25 AM (Epeb0)

80 Why Didn’t Principled Free Traders Argue That Canada Would Benefit from Trump’s Tariffs,

Because the government was paying them to say Trump and everything he does is bad.

One of the fascinating reveals of the last decade is very, very few people in infotainment or politics have any sort of principles besides "I get paid"

Posted by: 18-1 at February 07, 2025 11:25 AM (t0Rmr)

81 EU: we're gonna send troops to Greenland to defend the mighty sovereignty of Denmark!

Trump: oh hey where dis 50% tariff on the EU come from?

Posted by: The Unvaxed and Unmasked Ranger - China is Assho And Void of Freedom Loving Wagshambas at February 07, 2025 11:26 AM (HYKHz)

82 America's government has been in the hands of our enemies: grifters and cannibals.

Thank God for President Trump. Lord, we beseech Thee, keep him and his happy warriors safe, and guide their steps. Amen.

Posted by: Beverly at February 07, 2025 11:26 AM (Epeb0)

83 Thx Buck
Fun times for the geriatrics. A former AOC aide is launching a primary bid against Nancy. Last name Chakrabati. The Dem youngins are revolting, cue Mel Brooks. They're stupid too

Posted by: Smell the Glove at February 07, 2025 11:27 AM (EUtBO)

84 "The idea that it's okay to import the food needed to feed your populace, for example, seems like a bad idea. Ditto the idea that you should import critical defense components from your most likely geo-political foe."

Exactly that.

Posted by: Richard Cranium at February 07, 2025 11:27 AM (KY9Sa)

85 “Tariffs are a tax on consumers.”
“Consumers enjoy lower prices in countries that don’t impose tariffs.”
“Tariffs hurt the country that imposes the tariffs.”
"Outsourcing jobs to countries that impose tariffs helps"
“People who lose their jobs due to offshoring can simply find better jobs.”

The free traders never complain when these things are working against American interests because they are shills for the Marxist insurgency that has been trying to take down the USA since the Obama years. And if they can slide in smears that besmirch Felonious D's reputation and intelligence even better.

QED.

Posted by: Alteria Pilgram - My President has convictions. at February 07, 2025 11:27 AM (Q8Bj8)

86 Casey DeSantis considering FL Gov run.

https://tinyurl.com/5aubmn6t
Posted by: BruceWayne at February 07, 2025 11:24 AM (MGB5H)

Not a fan. No matter what her politics might look like, we already have too much inbred governance.

Posted by: I used to have a different nic at February 07, 2025 11:27 AM (ExV1e)

87 The UK, oddly enough, is rapidly bringing me around to the idea of protecting critical industries. The idea that it's okay to import the food needed to feed your populace, for example, seems like a bad idea. Ditto the idea that you should import critical defense components from your most likely geo-political foe.
Posted by: I used to have a different nic at February 07, 2025 11:24 AM (ExV1e)

Autarky now!

Posted by: Disinterested FDA Director at February 07, 2025 11:27 AM (l3YAf)

88 80 One of the fascinating reveals of the last decade is very, very few people in infotainment or politics have any sort of principles besides "I get paid"
Posted by: 18-1 at February 07, 2025 11:25 AM (t0Rmr)

=====

Nah.

It made total sense that the conservative commentariat would completely believe a nonsense story about their own party's president being a Russian stooge instead of focusing on his efforts to actually govern conservatively through the reduction of regulation and achieving long-term goals like tax cuts, border enforcement, and reigning in the administrative state.

It was just logical.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, watching B-movies with Roger Corman at February 07, 2025 11:27 AM (GBKbO)

89 Not a fan. No matter what her politics might look like, we already have too much inbred governance.
Posted by: I used to have a different nic at February 07, 2025 11:27 AM (ExV1e)

Completely agree.

Posted by: BruceWayne at February 07, 2025 11:27 AM (MGB5H)

90 81 EU: we're gonna send troops to Greenland to defend the mighty sovereignty of Denmark!

Trump: oh hey where dis 50% tariff on the EU come from?
Posted by: The Unvaxed and Unmasked Ranger - China is Assho And Void of Freedom Loving Wagshambas at February 07, 2025 11:26 AM (HYKHz)

=====

I guess Putin's gonna be able to march to Berlin now.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, watching B-movies with Roger Corman at February 07, 2025 11:28 AM (GBKbO)

91 89 Not a fan. No matter what her politics might look like, we already have too much inbred governance.
Posted by: I used to have a different nic at February 07, 2025 11:27 AM (ExV1e)

Completely agree.
Posted by: BruceWayne at February 07, 2025 11:27 AM (MGB5H)

=======

Name recognition.

It's dumb, but it's a real thing.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, watching B-movies with Roger Corman at February 07, 2025 11:28 AM (GBKbO)

92 EU: we're gonna send troops to Greenland to defend the mighty sovereignty of Denmark!

Lol. We constitute the vast majority of the combat power of NATO. What would they do if we pushed?

Posted by: I used to have a different nic at February 07, 2025 11:29 AM (ExV1e)

93 82 Somebody here mentioned they hope PDT doesn't attend the Super Bowl. When was the last time we had a President that people had a genuine concern about his safety, including prayer?

Posted by: bill in arkansas, not gonna comply with nuttin, waiting for the 0300 knock on the door at February 07, 2025 11:29 AM (gm9Sb)

94 A number of America's competitors have strict rules limiting foreign sales into their markets - I personally know that is true of both India and China.

At one company I worked they decided to enter the Chinese market which required us to partner with a Chinese firm. Which then stole our IP and voided the contract.

But don't worry a couple of years later another VP decided he could make it work and again the Chinese company we partnered with stole our IP and voided the contract

Posted by: 18-1 at February 07, 2025 11:29 AM (t0Rmr)

95 a tenth of one percent of Canada's population lives there. Nice isolated place to put all those troublesome Gazans.
Posted by: Giving
====
Can Gaza's grow potatoes? PEI whites are my favorite.

Posted by: From about That Time at February 07, 2025 11:29 AM (4780s)

96 37 Threats have to be credible. Trump's are.
Posted by: Grumpy and Recalcitrant

"Don't call my bluff." -The JEF

Haw! I remember when Barack, the Light (in-the-loafers) Worker, said that.

Posted by: Paco at February 07, 2025 11:29 AM (mADJX)

97 Not a fan. No matter what her politics might look like, we already have too much inbred governance.
Posted by: I used to have a different nic

Yep. No more dynasties.

Posted by: Bulg at February 07, 2025 11:29 AM (77rzZ)

98 100%

"86 Casey DeSantis considering FL Gov run.

https://tinyurl.com/5aubmn6t
Posted by: BruceWayne at February 07, 2025 11:24 AM (MGB5H)

Not a fan. No matter what her politics might look like, we already have too much inbred governance.
Posted by: I used to have a different nic at February 07, 2025 11:27 AM (ExV1e)"

Posted by: Are you sure about this sir? at February 07, 2025 11:29 AM (zOD0w)

99 23 "I’m glad that the threat of punitive tariffs compelled the Canadian [and Mexican] government to respond to the national security crisis at our border."

How soon do you think it will be before we see a resulting reduction in illicit fentanyl sales in the USA?
Posted by: The Smell Of The gp
======
Watch the street price of drugs. If the price of fentanyl goes up, then users will either substitute something else (causing demand and prices for those substitutes to rise) or decrease demand directly or indirectly (dealers cheapening the product via adulteration).

Posted by: whig at February 07, 2025 11:30 AM (ctrM5)

100 Our ruling class decided after WWI and WWII, that nationalism would not be permitted and the US ruling class became fascinated with globalism.

Posted by: whig at February 07, 2025 11:17 AM (ctrM5)

I always have found it frustrating that nationalism is constantly equated with Nazism. (The "Socialst" part of "National Socialist Party" always gets ignored for some odd reason.)

I'm going to be proud of the country I was born in, damnit, and you globalist asshoes can't stop me.

Posted by: pookysgirl, trying to get a wiggleworm to sleep at February 07, 2025 11:30 AM (Wt5PA)

101 Funemployment!

Posted by: Eromero at February 07, 2025 11:30 AM (jgmnb)

102 Name recognition.
It's dumb, but it's a real thing.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison

Part of the reason we beat Hillary Clinton. We found an even better-known name to run against her.

Posted by: mikeski at February 07, 2025 11:30 AM (DgGvY)

103 I never believed much of the econ theory I was taught as an undergrad in economics because I had a grounding in history before matriculation.
Posted by: whig at February 07, 2025 11:17 AM (ctrM5)
______

My econ professor in college was a big Keynesian. Looking back, I'm not sure if he truly believed in it, or if he just really wanted to believe it.

Regardless, we had to read all the Keynesian books and study his theories. My teenage self knew little about economic theory at the time, other than that hot girls liked guys with fast cars. But even not knowing much about economics, I read Keynes and thought "this is total bullshit, this guy's a fucking loon."

Posted by: Elric The Blade at February 07, 2025 11:30 AM (iFTx/)

104 Not a fan. No matter what her politics might look like, we already have too much inbred governance.

I'd like to see a constitutional amendment that the spouse, ex-spouse, widow or children of an elected office holder can never hold the same office.

We have 330M people. We don't have a shortage of individuals that can hold those offices.

Posted by: 18-1 at February 07, 2025 11:31 AM (t0Rmr)

105 I guess Putin's gonna be able to march to Berlin now.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, watching B-movies with Roger Corman at February 07, 2025 11:28 AM (GBKbO)
---
By the time he gets there, it will be under shariah law, so is that necessarily a bad thing?

Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at February 07, 2025 11:31 AM (7fElN)

106 102 Name recognition.
It's dumb, but it's a real thing.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison

Part of the reason we beat Hillary Clinton. We found an even better-known name to run against her.
Posted by: mikeski at February 07, 2025 11:30 AM (DgGvY)

=======

If I were to put a generic percentage on the value of name recognition in political races, it'd be something like 75%. It's not everything, but if everyone knows your name, it's a serious leg up.

This is why Kamala is leading early 2028 Democrat primary polls right now.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, watching B-movies with Roger Corman at February 07, 2025 11:31 AM (GBKbO)

107 Casey DeSantis considering FL Gov run.

https://tinyurl.com/5aubmn6t
Posted by: BruceWayne

Hard Pass / Fvck No
Dynasties are repulsive.

Posted by: Itinerant Alley Butcher at February 07, 2025 11:31 AM (/lPRQ)

108 The Canadian dollar is only worth 0.69 US dollars. So that already makes their goods cheaper for US.

China is the bigger problem, but we are still dependent on them for a lot of our supply chain stuff, as well as the normal junk.

Posted by: illiniwek at February 07, 2025 11:32 AM (Cus5s)

109 Not a fan. No matter what her politics might look like, we already have too much inbred governance.
Posted by: I used to have a different nic at February 07, 2025 11:27 AM (ExV1e)

Giving the dem another glance since you dont like dynasties?

Posted by: Time for a new nick. Certified dangerous radical and Trump cultist!Ketchup goes on hotdogs! at February 07, 2025 11:32 AM (89Sog)

110 I read Keynes and thought "this is total bullshit, this guy's a fucking loon."
Posted by: Elric The Blade at February 07, 2025 11:30 AM (iFTx/)

And stop making all your graphs sideways you dope!

"Oh that's just how we do it in economics!" Bullshit!

Rumble, grumble.... "top of mind"... random bastards.

Posted by: Warai-otoko at February 07, 2025 11:32 AM (VoAdT)

111 >>Why not Prince Edward Island? Only a tenth of one percent of Canada's population lives there. Nice isolated place to put all those troublesome Gazans.
Posted by: Giving Trump A Call at February 07, 2025 11:15 AM

-----------

PEI is much too beautiful to let the Gazans ruin, and much too close to the US.

Posted by: Bigsmith at February 07, 2025 11:32 AM (1Au9i)

112 Madam M, not only that, but we a rising to the top of the next.level.
Sobering. For a moment. Then it's I'll drink to that.

Posted by: From about That Time at February 07, 2025 11:33 AM (4780s)

113 My econ professor in college was a big Keynesian.

*************************

I think they all were, my econ professor was alright and put up with my MAGA rants

I think one takeaway i did learn was how monetary policy (the fed) fucks everything up bigly

Posted by: The Unvaxed and Unmasked Ranger - China is Assho And Void of Freedom Loving Wagshambas at February 07, 2025 11:33 AM (HYKHz)

114 98 100%

"86 Casey DeSantis considering FL Gov run.

https://tinyurl.com/5aubmn6t
Posted by: BruceWayne at February 07, 2025 11:24 AM (MGB5H)

Not a fan. No matter what her politics might look like, we already have too much inbred governance.
Posted by: I used to have a different nic at February 07, 2025 11:27 AM (ExV1e)"
Posted by: Are you sure about this sir? at February 07, 2025 11:29 AM (zOD0w)

And I'd vote for her in a heartbeat. Young cancer survivor, mom of 3, juggled being 1st lady of Florida. Obviously loves the spouse and had a real career herself before kids. Heck, I might prefer her to him...

She's a shoo-in if she runs...

Posted by: Nova Local at February 07, 2025 11:33 AM (exHjb)

115 Name recognition.
It's dumb, but it's a real thing.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison

Part of the reason we beat Hillary Clinton. We found an even better-known name to run against her.
Posted by: mikeski at February 07, 2025 11:30 AM (DgGvY)

=======

If I were to put a generic percentage on the value of name recognition in political races, it'd be something like 75%. It's not everything, but if everyone knows your name, it's a serious leg up.

This is why Kamala is leading early 2028 Democrat primary polls right now.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, watching B-movies with Roger Corman at February 07, 2025 11:31 AM (GBKbO)
______

[Nodding sagaciously]

-- Thomas Jefferson Johnson

Posted by: Elric The Blade at February 07, 2025 11:33 AM (iFTx/)

116 114 And I'd vote for her in a heartbeat. Young cancer survivor, mom of 3, juggled being 1st lady of Florida. Obviously loves the spouse and had a real career herself before kids. Heck, I might prefer her to him...

She's a shoo-in if she runs...
Posted by: Nova Local at February 07, 2025 11:33 AM (exHjb)

======

Not one mention of her politics.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, watching B-movies with Roger Corman at February 07, 2025 11:33 AM (GBKbO)

117 • “Consumers enjoy lower prices in countries that don’t impose tariffs.” Again, shouldn’t the free traders have been imploring Canada to preserve lower consumer prices by unilaterally surrendering to America’s tariffs?

——-

Basic economics tells us that price is determined by supply and demand.

So tariffs only have an effect insomuch as it affects supply.

Posted by: MAGA_Ken at February 07, 2025 11:33 AM (DZ03a)

118 110 And always remember, an economist is somebody that doesn't have the personality to be an accountant.

Posted by: bill in arkansas, not gonna comply with nuttin, waiting for the 0300 knock on the door at February 07, 2025 11:34 AM (gm9Sb)

119 Can Gaza's grow potatoes? PEI whites are my favorite.
Posted by: From about That Time

They are excellent and diligent tunnel rats, so it wouldn't be a stretch.

Posted by: Sam Spud at February 07, 2025 11:34 AM (G5+As)

120 I'd like to see a constitutional amendment that the spouse, ex-spouse, widow or children of an elected office holder can never hold the same office.

We have 330M people. We don't have a shortage of individuals that can hold those offices.

Posted by: 18-1 at February 07, 2025 11:31 AM (t0Rmr)

Ooooo I like it.

Posted by: pookysgirl, trying to get a wiggleworm to sleep at February 07, 2025 11:34 AM (Wt5PA)

121 Posted by: Are you sure about this sir? at February 07, 2025 11:29 AM (zOD0w)

Yes, we're sure.

Posted by: Everyone who wanted Lara Trump to replace Rubio at February 07, 2025 11:34 AM (Hzp/S)

122 Take a look at the tariffs that other countries place on US goods, and then tell us again about free trade.

Posted by: Thomas Paine at February 07, 2025 11:34 AM (lTGtQ)

123 I always have found it frustrating that nationalism is constantly equated with Nazism. (The "Socialst" part of "National Socialist Party" always gets ignored for some odd reason.)

Ah, but there is a specific reason for this. Mussolini broke with the socialists of his day over the question of whether you could be a socialist and a nationalist, and this was the delineation in 1941 between the national socialists in central Europe and the international Socialists in the USSR

National Socialism is essentially a socialist heresy. And as with all heresies very, very important to those of the faith. But if you aren't a socialist it doesn't matter that much - either system will give you an authoritarian government...

Posted by: 18-1 at February 07, 2025 11:34 AM (t0Rmr)

124 Posted by: Madame Mayhem (uppity wench) at February 07, 2025 11:25 AM (4XwPj)

Hi Madame. I'm sorry. 🤗😔

Posted by: ... at February 07, 2025 11:34 AM (Ja2Pp)

125 "Watch the street price of drugs. If the price of fentanyl goes up, then users will either substitute something else (causing demand and prices for those substitutes to rise) or decrease demand directly or indirectly (dealers cheapening the product via adulteration)."

That's one good way to measure it. Suppose either or both of those effects are measured. The plan has succeeded.

But are there less addicts? They have switched to a substitute, and/or they are consuming poorer quality drugs. Is that a net benefit to public health?

Posted by: The Smell Of The gp, The Roar Of The Crowd at February 07, 2025 11:35 AM (u01/w)

126 Byron Donalds?

Posted by: Ben Had at February 07, 2025 11:35 AM (mB6WH)

127 I haven't been back in, like, 20 years though. Probably never gonna go back.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, watching B-movies with Roger Corman at February 07, 2025 11:05 AM (GBKbO)

Pssst

I lied ...

Posted by: zombie Thomas Wolfe at February 07, 2025 11:35 AM (TTAGa)

128 123 National Socialism is essentially a socialist heresy. And as with all heresies very, very important to those of the faith. But if you aren't a socialist it doesn't matter that much - either system will give you an authoritarian government...
Posted by: 18-1 at February 07, 2025 11:34 AM (t0Rmr)

======

It's all just statism.

There are differences in organization, but they have the same basic structure, goal, and result.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, watching B-movies with Roger Corman at February 07, 2025 11:36 AM (GBKbO)

129 Byron Donalds?
Posted by: Ben Had at February 07, 2025 11:35 AM (mB6WH)

He's one of a number of strong candidates FL has. A DeSantis dynasty is not needed.

Posted by: BruceWayne at February 07, 2025 11:36 AM (MGB5H)

130 116 114 And I'd vote for her in a heartbeat. Young cancer survivor, mom of 3, juggled being 1st lady of Florida. Obviously loves the spouse and had a real career herself before kids. Heck, I might prefer her to him...

She's a shoo-in if she runs...
Posted by: Nova Local at February 07, 2025 11:33 AM (exHjb)

======

Not one mention of her politics.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, watching B-movies with Roger Corman at February 07, 2025 11:33 AM (GBKbO)

It's kinda obvious - she is happily married mom of 3 effectively staying home to raise kids and giving up her career...what way do you think her politics would go, with Ron being behind her?

Married white stay at home moms with kids are the most conservative and republican voters, more than any white male group of any type...so I can guess the politics...

Posted by: Nova Local at February 07, 2025 11:36 AM (exHjb)

131 EU: we're gonna send troops to Greenland to defend the mighty sovereignty of Denmark!

Well that would be a really quick way to get rid of having to pay for Europe's defense. The predicate need for NATO is long gone and has since become a grift for the European nations to avoid funding their own defense. So yeah they could send a couple thousand troops to Greenland. I wish Europe nothing but good luck trying to keep them from starving once the USA's blockade goes to maximum.

Posted by: Alteria Pilgram - My President has convictions. at February 07, 2025 11:36 AM (Q8Bj8)

132
Giving the dem another glance since you dont like dynasties?

Posted by: Time for a new nick. Certified dangerous radical and Trump cultist!Ketchup goes on hotdogs!

Oh, get serious.

There are plenty of people in Florida on the R side who are capable of being a worthy successor to DeSantis and who are not his wife.

Byron Donalds and Grady Judd are two that come to mind.

Posted by: Krebs v Carnot: Epic Battle of the Cycling Stars (TM) at February 07, 2025 11:36 AM (xG4kz)

133 64
‘ we’ll figure it out"

How?’

If we think it’s coming from China for instance, we demand Canada do inspections and make arrests and otherwise give an accounting of what Canada is importing from China.
That’s a start. I’m not a law enforcement expert but this ought to be among what we require.

Posted by: Dr. Claw at February 07, 2025 11:36 AM (jbnUc)

134 130 It's kinda obvious - she is happily married mom of 3 effectively staying home to raise kids and giving up her career...what way do you think her politics would go, with Ron being behind her?

Married white stay at home moms with kids are the most conservative and republican voters, more than any white male group of any type...so I can guess the politics...
Posted by: Nova Local at February 07, 2025 11:36 AM (exHjb)

======

And Melania supports abortion.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, watching B-movies with Roger Corman at February 07, 2025 11:36 AM (GBKbO)

135 Please don't try to muddy the waters here. This effort by Trump seems to be having a positive effect, in getting these other countries to acknowledge unfair trade practices, and the threat of tariffs has been effective at potentially getting some of that to change.

However... tariffs are NOT good economic policy. They just aren't. That other governments impose them on us, and we're going to fight back doesn't change that.

Posted by: BurtTC at February 07, 2025 11:37 AM (0m8j3)

136 Hot girls like guys with fast cars is an economic truism.

Posted by: From about That Time at February 07, 2025 11:37 AM (4780s)

137 So this whole Greenland thing - the left keeps talking as if Trump is going to send in the military to seize it but more and more it sounds like Denmark and the EU are terrified Greenland will vote for separation from them and plan to use military force if they do

Posted by: 18-1 at February 07, 2025 11:38 AM (t0Rmr)

138 There are plenty of people in Florida on the R side who are capable of being a worthy successor to DeSantis and who are not his wife.

Byron Donalds and Grady Judd are two that come to mind.
Posted by: Krebs v Carnot: Epic Battle of the Cycling Stars (TM) at February 07, 2025 11:36

What if she gets the nomination? Still not gonna vote for her?

Posted by: Time for a new nick. Certified dangerous radical and Trump cultist!Ketchup goes on hotdogs! at February 07, 2025 11:38 AM (89Sog)

139 Hey, Bruce. I grew up in Cassopolis.
Posted by: Bulg at February 07, 2025 11:05 AM (77rzZ)

Ha! I remember the ice cream joint right on the highway/lake about a block before getting into town. It was on the way to our cottage near the covered bridge near Mendon from beautiful Gary, IN.

Posted by: Deplorable Ian Galt at February 07, 2025 11:38 AM (ufFY8)

140 85 “Tariffs are a tax on consumers.”
“Consumers enjoy lower prices in countries that don’t impose tariffs.”
“Tariffs hurt the country that imposes the tariffs.”
"Outsourcing jobs to countries that impose tariffs helps"
“People who lose their jobs due to offshoring can simply find better jobs.”

The free traders never complain when these things are working against American interests because they are shills for the Marxist insurgency that has been trying to take down the USA since the Obama years. And if they can slide in smears that besmirch Felonious D's reputation and intelligence even better.

QED.
Posted by: Alteria Pilgram
=======
Free trade, as you have demonstrated with your quotes is purely rhetorical because ceterus paribus never exists in the real world. To succeed the US must have an economy and national security directed at the wellbeing of a country's own citizens.

We have ran a natural experiment of free trade for about 40-60 years or so. It impoverished the US while making other countries richer and actually made government spending worse instead of better and led to a slump in real wages/living conditions for average Americans since the 1970's

Posted by: whig at February 07, 2025 11:38 AM (ctrM5)

141 137 So this whole Greenland thing - the left keeps talking as if Trump is going to send in the military to seize it but more and more it sounds like Denmark and the EU are terrified Greenland will vote for separation from them and plan to use military force if they do
Posted by: 18-1 at February 07, 2025 11:38 AM (t0Rmr)

=======

Why would the media say that Trump is prepping for war against Greenland?

That's just crazy.

So weird.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, watching B-movies with Roger Corman at February 07, 2025 11:38 AM (GBKbO)

142 134 130 It's kinda obvious - she is happily married mom of 3 effectively staying home to raise kids and giving up her career...what way do you think her politics would go, with Ron being behind her?

Married white stay at home moms with kids are the most conservative and republican voters, more than any white male group of any type...so I can guess the politics...
Posted by: Nova Local at February 07, 2025 11:36 AM (exHjb)

======

And Melania supports abortion.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, watching B-movies with Roger Corman at February 07, 2025 11:36 AM (GBKbO)

And there is more to politics than that single issue. And Melania was a 3rd wife, not a 1st one...

Although, apparently, Casey has already denied interest in running...

Posted by: Nova Local at February 07, 2025 11:38 AM (exHjb)

143 So this whole Greenland thing - the left keeps talking as if Trump is going to send in the military to seize it but more and more it sounds like Denmark and the EU are terrified Greenland will vote for separation from them and plan to use military force if they do
Posted by: 18-1 at February 07, 2025 11:38 AM (t0Rmr)

Shockingly enough Greenland isn't a big fan of the Danes.

Posted by: BruceWayne at February 07, 2025 11:38 AM (MGB5H)

144 My reading of history puts the Communists against Nazis was a fight between the Nazis pushing their government Socialism for the good of the country only and Communists pushing one world government

Posted by: Skip at February 07, 2025 11:38 AM (fwDg9)

145 Sorry for your loss, Madame Mayhem 💔🙏

Posted by: Teresa in Fort Worth, Plucky Comic Relief, AoS Ladies Brigade - Eat the Cheesecake, Buy the Yarn. at February 07, 2025 11:38 AM (SRRAx)

146 However... tariffs are NOT good economic policy. They just aren't. That other governments impose them on us, and we're going to fight back doesn't change that.
Posted by: BurtTC at February 07, 2025 11:37 AM (0m8j3)

Having a massive standing army isn't good economic policy either, until it is.

Posted by: Warai-otoko at February 07, 2025 11:39 AM (VoAdT)

147 a tenth of one percent of Canada's population lives there. Nice isolated place to put all those troublesome Gazans.
Posted by: Giving
====
Can Gaza's grow potatoes? PEI whites are my favorite.
Posted by: From about That Time
====
Potatos are for cooler climates.
Yams, sweet potatos, taro, etc. for warmer climates.

Posted by: Itinerant Alley Butcher at February 07, 2025 11:39 AM (/lPRQ)

148 >> My teenage self knew little about economic theory at the time, other than that hot girls liked guys with fast cars.

Keynes was a homo, so that part probably didn’t even make it into his books.

Posted by: Disinterested FDA Director at February 07, 2025 11:39 AM (l3YAf)

149
What if she gets the nomination? Still not gonna vote for her?

Posted by: Time for a new nick. Certified dangerous radical and Trump cultist!Ketchup

I do not live in Florida, so the point is moot.

Posted by: Krebs v Carnot: Epic Battle of the Cycling Stars (TM) at February 07, 2025 11:39 AM (xG4kz)

150 I have no problem with any DeSantis if they're going to be loyal to the conservative movement.

In case one missed it, it's fucking damn near IMPOSSIBLE to find loyal people, what is the point of insisting on these arbitrary rules on top of it.

More muh principles? Muh principles doesn't fucking work. It was always bullshit. I will exclude people based on their politics nothing more.

Posted by: ... at February 07, 2025 11:39 AM (Ja2Pp)

151 > Casey DeSantis considering FL Gov run
---------
This is a chronic symptom of the political class. If it's not the spouse it's the kids, grandkids, or brothers and sisters. The capitol city is a sickly, incestuous swamp of mostly low IQ inbreeds.

Posted by: Martini Farmer at February 07, 2025 11:39 AM (Q4IgG)

152 Ha! I remember the ice cream joint right on the highway/lake about a block before getting into town. It was on the way to our cottage near the covered bridge near Mendon from beautiful Gary, IN.

Posted by: Deplorable Ian Galt

The Tastee Twirl!

Posted by: Bulg at February 07, 2025 11:40 AM (77rzZ)

153 Although, apparently, Casey has already denied interest in running...
Posted by: Nova Local at February 07, 2025 11:38 AM (exHjb)

Then the point is moot. I withdraw my objection.

Posted by: Time for a new nick. Certified dangerous radical and Trump cultist!Ketchup goes on hotdogs! at February 07, 2025 11:40 AM (89Sog)

154 144 that is why any nationalism geys thrown into the Nazi camp and the one world Communists railing any nationalism into their opponents

Posted by: Skip at February 07, 2025 11:40 AM (fwDg9)

155 National Socialism is essentially a socialist heresy. And as with all heresies very, very important to those of the faith. But if you aren't a socialist it doesn't matter that much - either system will give you an authoritarian government...

Posted by: 18-1 at February 07, 2025 11:34 AM (t0Rmr)

Thanks for the wordy... agreement? Rebuttal? Knowledge?

Reply! Thanks for the reply!

Posted by: pookysgirl, dealing with a teething Lil Pooky at February 07, 2025 11:40 AM (Wt5PA)

156 I do not live in Florida, so the point is moot.
Posted by: Krebs v Carnot: Epic Battle of the Cycling Stars (TM) at February 07, 2025 11:39 AM (xG4kz)

It's moo. It's like a cow's opinion. No one cares. It's moo.

Posted by: BruceWayne at February 07, 2025 11:40 AM (MGB5H)

157
The suicide squads of Narwhals will hole any vessel that comes up against Greenland.

Posted by: Krebs v Carnot: Epic Battle of the Cycling Stars (TM) at February 07, 2025 11:40 AM (xG4kz)

158 97 Not a fan. No matter what her politics might look like, we already have too much inbred governance.
Posted by: I used to have a different nic

Yep. No more dynasties.
Posted by: Bulg at

Hang on there a minute- I am not sure we should exclude people who are born into / married into families any more than we should automatically include them for the same reason. I think everyone should have a chance to run if they want, and should stand on their own 2 feet. If their message is “I am married to this influential person”, that really isn’t an amazing sales pitch. But if their message is “I believe in small government, second amendment rights, and this is my road map to improve as well as sustain gains”, then we should be listening.

Posted by: Piper at February 07, 2025 11:40 AM (pZEOD)

159 "If we think it’s coming from China for instance, we demand Canada do inspections and make arrests and otherwise give an accounting of what Canada is importing from China.
That’s a start. I’m not a law enforcement expert but this ought to be among what we require."

That's another good way of measuring it: inspecting the process. If we have transparency to monitor Canadian compliance, and see some number of arrests, we can see the process working. But aren't we more interested in measuring results (a net benefit to USA public health,) than in measuring processes?

Posted by: The Smell Of The gp, The Roar Of The Crowd at February 07, 2025 11:40 AM (u01/w)

160 I think Donalds has the inside track on the FL governorship. He's almost certainly gonna be the MAGA candidate.

Posted by: Elric The Blade at February 07, 2025 11:41 AM (iFTx/)

161 "THE MORNING RANT: Why Didn’t Principled Free Traders Argue That Canada Would Benefit from Trump’s Tariffs, Since They Advocate that the U.S. Benefits from Surrendering to Foreign Mercantilism?"

You can't use logic here, this is the Democrat-Media Complex!
- Literally N@zis and Commies

Posted by: Gref at February 07, 2025 11:41 AM (aBgBM)

162 However... tariffs are NOT good economic policy. They just aren't. That other governments impose them on us, and we're going to fight back doesn't change that.

Posted by: BurtTC at February 07, 2025 11:37 AM (0m8j3)

Mostly, I'd agree. And, I'm not knowledgeable about it, but check out the US steel industry.

Posted by: BignJames at February 07, 2025 11:42 AM (Yj6Os)

163 An upright bass, but I digress:

youtube.com/watch?v=uksTiHPORE8

Posted by: Braenyard - some Absent Friends are more equal than others _ at February 07, 2025 11:43 AM (lCWOD)

164 Buck. This is another example of your excellent posts.
One problem economists have is that individuals are involved and individuals don’t always follow the theory

Posted by: Lurking Cheshirecat at February 07, 2025 11:43 AM (w3u3d)

165 Keynes argument was that government needs to prime a pump to get things working. Government (FDR et.al) read that as government should always be pumping the pump. Here in lies the problem.

Posted by: Pudinhead at February 07, 2025 11:43 AM (Wg6v7)

166 Byron Donalds and Grady Judd are two that come to mind.
Posted by: Krebs v Carnot: Epic Battle of the Cycling Stars (TM) at February 07, 2025 11:36 AM (xG4kz)

How is Grady Judd’s scamper?

Posted by: Puffy? Or normal? at February 07, 2025 11:43 AM (l3YAf)

167 162 IIRC, Bastiat was all over that stuff. A good writer.

Posted by: The Smell Of The gp, The Roar Of The Crowd at February 07, 2025 11:44 AM (u01/w)

168 "ceterus paribus" - Whig

I have to admit it's pretty hot, from a platonic sense only, when you use Latin.

Posted by: Alteria Pilgram - My President has convictions. at February 07, 2025 11:44 AM (Q8Bj8)

169 160 I think Donalds has the inside track on the FL governorship. He's almost certainly gonna be the MAGA candidate.
Posted by: Elric The Blade at February 07, 2025 11:41 AM (iFTx/)

If she were to run (which she is denying) he wouldn't...just like Ted Cruz was gonna run for a state TX election at one point (before he was Senator), but then got boxed out by someone who changed their mind about running, so he ran for Senate.

You know who you can and can't beat, and when the time is right when you're a politico. Donalds couldn't beat Casey with Ron backing her. He needs Ron backing him.

Posted by: Nova Local at February 07, 2025 11:44 AM (exHjb)

170 84 "The idea that it's okay to import the food needed to feed your populace, for example, seems like a bad idea. Ditto the idea that you should import critical defense components from your most likely geo-political foe."

Exactly that.
Posted by: Richard Cranium at February 07, 2025 11:27 AM (KY9Sa)

I concur!

Posted by: Heywood Jablowme at February 07, 2025 11:44 AM (OA79/)

171
The other side is playing to destroy. You think they wouldn't use an "Obama" name to do it if they could?

Taking chunks out of your own side of the playing field is retarded. Politics is dirty shit. You take a name advantage if you can get it and IF the person seems good.

Lord knows it has been used against us by the Uniparty forever and they will do it again. Granted I still don't trust DeSantis, and his national political instincts suck, but that's another discussion for another time.

Posted by: ... at February 07, 2025 11:44 AM (Ja2Pp)

172 111 >>Why not Prince Edward Island? Only a tenth of one percent of Canada's population lives there. Nice isolated place to put all those troublesome Gazans.
Posted by: Giving Trump A Call at February 07, 2025 11:15 AM

-----------

PEI is much too beautiful to let the Gazans ruin, and much too close to the US.
Posted by: Bigsmith at February 07, 2025 11:32 AM (1Au9i)

Over my dead, red headed body ...

Posted by: Anne Shirley / Anne of Green Gables at February 07, 2025 11:44 AM (TTAGa)

173 However... tariffs are NOT good economic policy. They just aren't. That other governments impose them on us, and we're going to fight back doesn't change that.
Posted by: BurtTC at February 07, 2025 11:37 AM (0m8j3)

Having a massive standing army isn't good economic policy either, until it is.
Posted by: Warai-otoko at February 07, 2025 11:39 AM (VoAdT)

Hopefully you're not trying to argue that our military adventures of the past 30 plus years have been an economic benefit to the country.

Posted by: BurtTC at February 07, 2025 11:44 AM (0m8j3)

174 73
‘ Doesn't work without those free flows of capital, labor, and government fiscal policy.’

Yeah. But there’s a difference between free trade (which I support with conditions) and free movement of people across borders which has a bad name with me these days. If you don’t restrict that a lot then you erode your sovereignty.

Posted by: Dr. Claw at February 07, 2025 11:44 AM (jbnUc)

175 A tariff isn't a policy, it's a weapon.

C'mon let's be honest

Nobody is still fence-sitting to be convinced about the nonsensical talking points from fake conservatives.

None of this is about the actual impact of tariffs on us. It's the economic version of lefties screeching that you don't have a right to defend yourself, by which they really mean some people do and some people don't, and we're not in that club.

As usual for the left this is all about domestic political power. They see the first step in defeating their former Soviet and Chinese progenitors as wrecking the US so they can fully seize power.

Posted by: heya at February 07, 2025 11:45 AM (nH+RN)

176 It's the same reason there was no fight for the R Gov spot for the 2025 VA race. AG couldn't beat the LT Gov in a primary once she was in and Youngkin was backing her...so he stays running for the AG seat...

Posted by: Nova Local at February 07, 2025 11:45 AM (exHjb)

177
Maybe the Gaz-into-ans could be persuaded to go to East Hampton, NY and become the saviours of the poor benighted neo-Dixiecrats by agreeing to ~~pick their cotton~~ cut their lawns, change their bedding, and the like?

What could go wrong?

Posted by: Krebs v Carnot: Epic Battle of the Cycling Stars (TM) at February 07, 2025 11:45 AM (xG4kz)

178 I am so sorry, Madame Mayhem. Prayers for you and your family.

Posted by: Piper at February 07, 2025 11:45 AM (pZEOD)

179 135 Please don't try to muddy the waters here. This effort by Trump seems to be having a positive effect, in getting these other countries to acknowledge unfair trade practices, and the threat of tariffs has been effective at potentially getting some of that to change.

However... tariffs are NOT good economic policy. They just aren't. That other governments impose them on us, and we're going to fight back doesn't change that.
Posted by: BurtTC at February 07, 2025 11:37 AM (0m8j3)

Really? Cause your own comment indicates it is good policy (an effective one that will yield positive results). That it might not be good policy in the abstract, all things being equal, in some hypothetical world that doesn't exist, well why does that matter? We don't live in a textbook.

Posted by: bear with asymmetrical balls at February 07, 2025 11:45 AM (44PAK)

180 76
‘ The UK, oddly enough, is rapidly bringing me around to the idea of protecting critical industries.’

UK history the last two centuries is a good case study.

Posted by: Dr. Claw at February 07, 2025 11:46 AM (jbnUc)

181 Do I support abortion by saying the Federal government (all governments, actually) should have no say in the matter?
I would strongly discourage it where I had some personal stake in it.

Posted by: From about That Time at February 07, 2025 11:46 AM (4780s)

182 Canadian food companies moving to USA as a result of tariffs

https://tinyurl.com/4rpyahwa

Posted by: Braenyard - some Absent Friends are more equal than others _ at February 07, 2025 11:46 AM (lCWOD)

183 "ceterus paribus" - Whig

That was lesson one, day one, in my econ 101 class with Robert Evans. All other things can never be the same.

Posted by: The Smell Of The gp, The Roar Of The Crowd at February 07, 2025 11:46 AM (u01/w)

184 179 We don't live in a textbook.
Posted by: bear with asymmetrical balls at February 07, 2025 11:45 AM (44PAK)

======

I'm just gonna assume a spherical chicken.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, watching B-movies with Roger Corman at February 07, 2025 11:47 AM (GBKbO)

185 However... tariffs are NOT good economic policy. They just aren't. That other governments impose them on us, and we're going to fight back doesn't change that.
Posted by: BurtTC
====
How about there is NO universal truth regarding economic policy. Tariffs, like other tools such as central banking, are merely tools to an end. Not an end in itself. The goal is the wellbeing and security of the US and its citizens, not some hypothetical ideal situation. To that end, we tried the free trade regime in real life with our allies first from 1950's to 1980's and then the rest of the world since the 90's. Tell me if the average person in the US is better off economically. Would be hard to do as wages and income for the average American worker have been stagnant in real terms since the 1970's while the cost of everything has skyrocketed.

We tried it the free trader way and it failed because economic theory is an approximation of reality that should be changed if it does not correspond with reality. Generalized free trade has not because it has implicit assumptions regarding labor flows and requiring real floating currency rates.

Posted by: whig at February 07, 2025 11:47 AM (ctrM5)

186 "Principled Free Traders have argued ad nauseum that tariffs only hurt the country imposing the tariffs"

Didn't take long to find your first (of many) errors. And really, straw men arguments are beneath you Buck. You are too good of a writer for that. Tariffs hurt everyone who trades. Period. No one, I mean not a single person with a shred of knowledge about economics, has argued otherwise.

Buck you are an excellent writer but an absolute fool on this subject. Though, considering how you framed the arguments to which you are contrary, it means you are a poor reader. You simply do not understand the subject AT ALL. Sad.

Posted by: Earl Schlobodowicz at February 07, 2025 11:47 AM (P7Iz+)

187 "Really? Cause your own comment indicates it is good policy (an effective one that will yield positive results). That it might not be good policy in the abstract, all things being equal, in some hypothetical world that doesn't exist, well why does that matter? We don't live in a textbook.
Posted by: bear with asymmetrical balls at February 07, 2025 11:45 AM (44PAK)"

Yep. Shooting your neighbor in the face isn't a good "policy" either but sometimes it's the right thing to do

Posted by: heya at February 07, 2025 11:47 AM (nH+RN)

188 Prayer up, MadameMayhem. My wife lost her uncle last year, he was the last one of the Greatest Generation in our family.

Posted by: Bulg at February 07, 2025 11:47 AM (77rzZ)

189 Sending Gazans to Martha's Vineyard >>> Sending Gazans to PEI

Posted by: Deplorable Ian Galt at February 07, 2025 11:47 AM (ufFY8)

190
How is Grady Judd’s scamper?

Posted by: Puffy? Or normal?

What ever happened to Ashley?

She used to be here quite a bit, and her scamper's puffiness was a thing to behold!

Posted by: Krebs v Carnot: Epic Battle of the Cycling Stars (TM) at February 07, 2025 11:48 AM (xG4kz)

191 Having a massive standing army isn't good economic policy either, until it is.

Posted by: Warai-otoko at February 07, 2025 11:39 AM (VoAdT)

Tariffs to protect domestic food production isn't good economic policy, but it sure comes in handy during wars.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at February 07, 2025 11:48 AM (g0MSz)

192 We don't live in a textbook.
Posted by: bear with asymmetrical balls at February 07, 2025 11:45 AM (44PAK)

I take it you are not a libertarian.

Posted by: ... at February 07, 2025 11:48 AM (Ja2Pp)

193
We have ran a natural experiment of free trade for about 40-60 years or so. It impoverished the US while making other countries richer and actually made government spending worse instead of better and led to a slump in real wages/living conditions for average Americans since the 1970's
Posted by: whig at February 07, 2025 11:38 AM (ctrM5)

———

Can’t deny the data.

Posted by: MAGA_Ken at February 07, 2025 11:48 AM (Vh9CX)

194 However... tariffs are NOT good economic policy. They just aren't. That other governments impose them on us, and we're going to fight back doesn't change that.

Posted by: BurtTC at February 07, 2025 11:37 AM (0m8j3)

Mostly, I'd agree. And, I'm not knowledgeable about it, but check out the US steel industry.
Posted by: BignJames at February 07, 2025 11:42 AM (Yj6Os)

Obviously it gets complicated, but the argument could be made that our steel industries have been failing, mostly due to government intervention. However... if... IF the domestic steel industry failed due to poor management, or even changing economic conditions, then it would behoove us as a nation to figure out how to manage our needs for steel some way other than through the existing structure that was in place.

And if it was not possible for the steel industry to survive, in the marketplace? Then it should die.

Posted by: BurtTC at February 07, 2025 11:48 AM (0m8j3)

195 165 Keynes argument was that government needs to prime a pump to get things working. Government (FDR et.al) read that as government should always be pumping the pump. Here in lies the problem.
Posted by: Pudinhead at February 07, 2025 11:43 AM (Wg6v7)

My understanding was that the government should prime the pump with debt so that the econmy would grow taxes would rise and the debt would be paid off. But it had to do it in a sort of secret way otherwise insiders would skim off the priming and then hold out for more.....and here we are a bazillion dollars in debt. Absolutely the thinking of the underpants gnomes.

Posted by: Cuthbert the Witless at February 07, 2025 11:49 AM (OA79/)

196 Posted by: Earl Schlobodowicz at February 07, 2025 11:47 AM (P7Iz+)

No way to phrase your points without the insults?

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at February 07, 2025 11:49 AM (aQaf8)

197 I ever tell you that I went to high school in Fort Wayne?
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, watching B-movies with Roger Corman at February 07, 2025 11:02 AM (GBKbO)

What?! That's cool. Born in Elkhart and live in Indy for 5 or 6 years before heading to the mitten.
Posted by: BruceWayne
---------

I sense a trend. My best friend was born and raised in Ft. Wayne. I lived/worked in Indy for 3 years, lived/worked in Lafayette for 3 years.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at February 07, 2025 11:49 AM (XeU6L)

198 An economist is an expert, who can tell you tomorrow why what he predicted yesterday would happen today didn’t happen.

Posted by: Retief at February 07, 2025 11:50 AM (UL9Rw)

199 Over my dead, red headed body ...
Posted by: Anne Shirley / Anne of Green Gables

You have red hair on your body, Anne? Did you transition?

Posted by: Bulg at February 07, 2025 11:50 AM (77rzZ)

200 >>> North American Free Trade Agreement, Canada has continued to block American dairy products by imposing high tariffs.

Canada continues to use regulations and subsidies to massively, shall we say, go against the spirit of the USMCA / NAFTA.

Mexico as well.

Now on the one hand -- sure, that's in their national interest. I get it. Let's play around with nation of origin markings, let's subsidize industries to make our exports cheaper, etc. etc.

On the other hand, our national interest is to... not allow that.

So we should stop allowing that.

And that's without any retaliatory tariffs.

Posted by: Harry Paratestes at February 07, 2025 11:50 AM (uCjyK)

201 92
‘ We constitute the vast majority of the combat power of NATO. What would they do if we pushed?’

Fall over

Posted by: Dr. Claw at February 07, 2025 11:50 AM (jbnUc)

202 201 92
‘ We constitute the vast majority of the combat power of NATO. What would they do if we pushed?’

Fall over
Posted by: Dr. Claw at February 07, 2025 11:50 AM (jbnUc)

======

And leave Ukraine to Putin?!

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, watching B-movies with Roger Corman at February 07, 2025 11:50 AM (GBKbO)

203
I'm just gonna assume a spherical chicken.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, watching B-movies with Roger Corman

Of radius, r = 0, and a mass of "m".

Those are the chickens suited best for ANY modeling!

Posted by: Krebs v Carnot: Epic Battle of the Cycling Stars (TM) at February 07, 2025 11:50 AM (xG4kz)

204 Surprised the main post didn't address the (unsurprisingly disjointed) Lefty response more:

"Trump folded because the markets were going to tank"

"Trump folded because Mexican and Canadian counter tariffs were going to destroy US businesses"

"Trump folded because he is dumb and agreed to 'concessions' in already approved deals from the Biden administration"

"Trump just wanted a win in the media, and the MSM is so right-wing it declared this a win instead of reporting the truth of Trump folding"

The Left doesn't have a good answer for why, if this is such a loss for Trump, he would agree to suspend the tariffs for just 30 days? If it's a losing hand, make it permanent, play it up in the media, and never touch it again. The fact he wants to revisit it means it's a win, and he wants to talk about it more.

Posted by: Intercepted DU Transmissions brought by the Intrepid AoS Liaison at February 07, 2025 11:51 AM (JCZqz)

205 This tariff is an abomination!

Posted by: John C. Calhoun at February 07, 2025 11:51 AM (XeU6L)

206 UK history the last two centuries is a good case study.
Posted by: Dr. Claw
---

Made in England? Sterling silverware, steam engine regulators.
The provocateurs of disciplined independence world wide never caught on to their best idea.

Posted by: Braenyard - some Absent Friends are more equal than others _ at February 07, 2025 11:51 AM (lCWOD)

207 Trump has done more to improve Canada’s economy than anyone else in the past 45 years. I have not seen in all that time as much effort by Canada’s elected leaders to look seriously at how to strengthen the fundamentals of Canada’s economy. Canada is getting played by Trump, but to Canada’s benefit. Fascinating to watch.

Posted by: Rube at February 07, 2025 11:51 AM (b7wnq)

208 Married white stay at home moms with kids are the most conservative and republican voters, more than any white male group of any type...so I can guess the politics...
Posted by: Nova Local at February 07, 2025 11:36 AM (exHjb)

======

And Melania supports abortion.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, watching B-movies with Roger Corman

======

There is also federal vs. state vs. local (city/county/etc) political philosophy. Few can distinguish that different levels may require underlying philosophies.
An obvious exmple would be public utilities such as water systems. Most pols may recognize it's not practical at a national level... But it won't stop them for jam-packing everybody into 15 minute cities and use potable water as a benefit.

Posted by: Itinerant Alley Butcher at February 07, 2025 11:52 AM (/lPRQ)

209 ever tell you that I went to high school in Fort Wayne?
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, watching B-movies with Roger Corman at February 07, 2025 11:02 AM (GBKbO)

What?! That's cool. Born in Elkhart and live in Indy for 5 or 6 years before heading to the mitten.
Posted by: BruceWayne
---------

I sense a trend. My best friend was born and raised in Ft. Wayne. I lived/worked in Indy for 3 years, lived/worked in Lafayette for 3 years.
Posted by: Mike Hammer

I've lived in southern Indiana most of my life. I did spend a few years in Lafayette. My boy spawn was born in Lafayette.

Posted by: Madame Mayhem (uppity wench) at February 07, 2025 11:52 AM (4XwPj)

210 My understanding was that the government should prime the pump with debt so that the econmy would grow taxes would rise and the debt would be paid off. But it had to do it in a sort of secret way otherwise insiders would skim off the priming and then hold out for more.....and here we are a bazillion dollars in debt. Absolutely the thinking of the underpants gnomes.
Posted by: Cuthbert the Witless at February 07, 2025 11:49 AM (OA79/)

Keynes himself didn't sound crazy. The idea was that the government (or central bank in our case) should "moderate" economic cycles.

So in boom times, government saves a bunch of money, and in bust times, spends a bunch of money.

This would even out the boom / bust cycle.

Now, I don't think it would work in practice, but the theory is not nuts.

Of course, governments heard "ooh, the experts said we get to spend a bunch of money above and beyond what we bring in in tax revenues? Sign me up!" even though that was never the intention, and that's kind of retarded.

Posted by: Harry Paratestes at February 07, 2025 11:52 AM (uCjyK)

211 Really? Cause your own comment indicates it is good policy (an effective one that will yield positive results). That it might not be good policy in the abstract, all things being equal, in some hypothetical world that doesn't exist, well why does that matter? We don't live in a textbook.
Posted by: bear with asymmetrical balls at February 07, 2025 11:45 AM (44PAK)

They aren't good ECONONIC policy. If you remove that one word, you change the meaning to something other than what I'm saying.

Ultimately, if... IF we end up getting into trade wars around the globe, it will hurt the U.S., economically.

Whether it will have been worth it, to get rid of unfair trade practices by other governments, that will remain to be seen. But it will hurt U.S. citizens in the pocketbook.

Period.

Posted by: BurtTC at February 07, 2025 11:52 AM (0m8j3)

212 That was lesson one, day one, in my econ 101 class with Robert Evans. All other things can never be the same.
Posted by: The Smell Of The gp

I came into economics during the dying days of big Macroeconomics with big data (aka Paul Samuelson's econometric take on Keynes). It was obvious from real world data that Keynesian economics was not working in the 70's and 80's because it essentially ignored the bigger factors leading to US dominance post WWII. The actual destruction of its competitors economies and capital stock. Keynesian economics did not end the Depression and created stagflation, etc. in the 70's as artifacts of its ideas that deficits do no matter (Keynes idea of laborers digging holes and then filling them in is an example of his foolishness in his seminal work among others).

It objectively failed at policy prescriptions and did not even describe the macro economy as well as the older Austrian school that largely eschewed mathematics as a tool. So, it should be junked. Same with globalism theory. Junked. Etc.

Posted by: whig at February 07, 2025 11:53 AM (ctrM5)

213 210 So in boom times, government saves a bunch of money, and in bust times, spends a bunch of money.

This would even out the boom / bust cycle.

Now, I don't think it would work in practice, but the theory is not nuts.

Of course, governments heard "ooh, the experts said we get to spend a bunch of money above and beyond what we bring in in tax revenues? Sign me up!" even though that was never the intention, and that's kind of retarded.
Posted by: Harry Paratestes at February 07, 2025 11:52 AM (uCjyK)

======

Any economic theory pushed by the uniparty is usually deeply misrepresented and just cover for spending like drunken sailors.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, watching B-movies with Roger Corman at February 07, 2025 11:53 AM (GBKbO)

214 I'm just gonna assume a spherical chicken.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, watching B-movies with Roger Corman

Of radius, r = 0, and a mass of "m".

Those are the chickens suited best for ANY modeling!

In vacuo or in silico?

Posted by: Archimedes at February 07, 2025 11:53 AM (xCA6C)

215 • “People who lose their jobs due to offshoring can simply find better jobs.” Again, if Canadian manufacturers would just move their jobs to the U.S. to avoid the tariffs, then those displaced Canadian workers would have a great opportunity to go find better jobs outside of manufacturing.

——-

This, above all things, explains the rise of Trump.

Posted by: MAGA_Ken at February 07, 2025 11:53 AM (Vh9CX)

216 Harsanyi got his start as a corporate political media shill in the Denver Pustule. Way back in my college days, I knew him as a cuck, before that term existed. A dishwater dull Party mediocrity who wouldn't stand out in a crowd of one.

Posted by: Yudhishthira's Dice at February 07, 2025 11:54 AM (0l8OY)

217 ceterus paribus" - Whig

That was lesson one, day one, in my econ 101 class with Robert Evans. All other things can never be the same.
Posted by: The Smell Of The gp, The Roar Of The Crowd

The whole point of economics is to go home with all the pie. This has been true since the day of mastodon hunting and before. "Greed is good" - Gordon Gecko.

Posted by: Alteria Pilgram - My President has convictions. at February 07, 2025 11:54 AM (Q8Bj8)

218 No way to phrase your points without the insults?
Posted by: FenelonSpoke at February 07, 2025 11:49 AM (aQaf

Eh insult or no I would have liked to see more body. All I saw was "you're wrong and being so wrong is beneath you but not surprising." I mean I might start using that one myself. Easier than actually explaining anything. Either way the floor is open for clarification.

Posted by: ... at February 07, 2025 11:54 AM (Ja2Pp)

219 Hopefully you're not trying to argue that our military adventures of the past 30 plus years have been an economic benefit to the country.
Posted by: BurtTC at February 07, 2025 11:44 AM (0m8j3)

Last 110 years. WWII ended with us assuming Britain’s pre-war role in the “global order”, down to the imperial wars and the economic hollowing-out.

Bretton Woods formalized the dollar as the world reserve currency. One Triffin dilemma later and we’re a nation of consumers, not producers.

Bretton Woods unraveled in the late 60s/early 70s and was hastily replaced with the petrodollar. The collapse of the Soviet Union threw globalization into high gear, with global demand for dollars skyrocketing.

Now that is unraveling, and our ability to export dollars is slowing, causing a rising tide of inflation. The money printing carries on, but is increasingly landing in the hands of American producers, instead of ending up overseas as was intended.

Posted by: Disinterested FDA Director at February 07, 2025 11:55 AM (l3YAf)

220 There you go again, assuming intellectual consistency in a debate.

You should have learned not to do that by now.

Posted by: Cybersmythe at February 07, 2025 11:55 AM (2Insx)

221 Harsanyi got his start as a corporate political media shill in the Denver Pustule. Way back in my college days, I knew him as a cuck, before that term existed. A dishwater dull Party mediocrity who wouldn't stand out in a crowd of one.
Posted by: Yudhishthira's Dice at February 07, 2025 11:54 AM (0l8OY)

Does anyone remember David Karki? I always think of him when I see David Harsanyi. That dude was based AF.

Posted by: ... at February 07, 2025 11:55 AM (Ja2Pp)

222 However... tariffs are NOT good economic policy. They just aren't. That other governments impose them on us, and we're going to fight back doesn't change that.
Posted by: BurtTC

Generally true. A fairer system would be replacing all taxes on American production with a national sales tax. Flat rate applied at the till. Let foreign production pay for our SS, medicare, defense, etc.

Posted by: Itinerant Alley Butcher at February 07, 2025 11:55 AM (/lPRQ)

223 Many years were spent improving the lives of Americans. 5 day work week. My dad said Saturdays were half days at best for a long time.

Workers comp, social security. Disability. EPA, OSHA. The list is endless.

So corporations moved their operations to countries that offer none of those things. And governments moved workers here who enjoy none of those things.

Then the expert economist quacks told us foreign made goods produced by child slave labor helps “keep inflation low”. I’ve long thought tariffs should be employed to precisely offset the trade advantage.

Every feedback mechanism that would ordinarily short circuit Bad Things in this nation has been de-energized. The levers of power can be flipped, the buttons can be pushed, but they aren’t connected to anything.

Remember Richard Trumpka head of the AFL-CIO scoffed at millions of illegal aliens competing for jobs and driving down wages. Stagnant since the 1970s.

America COULD have said - “You want to trade with the US? Fine, you have to comport with our standards. Health care, workers comp. Social Security. OSHA. EPA requirements. Minimum Wage.”

They didn’t do that. Why?

Posted by: Common Tater at February 07, 2025 11:56 AM (74/ii)

224 "And if it was not possible for the steel industry to survive, in the marketplace? Then it should die."

Damn straight! We should outsource all of our military production means to hostile nations! Might as well add steel to those RE metals!

Posted by: Time for a new nick. Certified dangerous radical and Trump cultist!Ketchup goes on hotdogs! at February 07, 2025 11:56 AM (89Sog)

225 Although, since you all asked Casey's politics, apparently a Politico hit piece on Casey from last year pretty much says she's Ron's top advisor, and he doesn't make an independent decision without her...on ANYTHING. So, if you like Florida right now, according to the hit piece, thank Casey, not Ron...although the piece sees her as Lady MacBeth, so again, hit piece...

Posted by: Nova Local at February 07, 2025 11:56 AM (exHjb)

226 We tried it the free trader way...
Posted by: whig at February 07, 2025 11:47 AM (ctrM5)

No we didn't. We have people who pretended this was about free trade, and they enriched themselves at the expense of the American citizens.

That's not free trade. And I can't believe you really believe it was.

Posted by: BurtTC at February 07, 2025 11:56 AM (0m8j3)

227 What I think about all this:

I'm surprised that DJT's ask from the tariff threat was drug interdiction. Illegal drugs are one of America's most intractable problems. I wish he had asked for something else, something more likely to succeed.

Our drug problem is caused by demand far more than by supply.

''Drug addiction treatment,' as we have practiced it, is ineffective and astronomically expensive. More effective measures would be judged quite harsh, and would still be expensive.

One can assert "Canada and Mexico folded like cheap suits to Trump's threat, thereby proving it a success." I think the success can be measured mainly by a reduction in the number of USA addicts, which will take time to assess.

Posted by: The Smell Of The gp, The Roar Of The Crowd at February 07, 2025 11:57 AM (u01/w)

228 Posted by: whig at February 07, 2025 11:47 AM (ctrM5)

I've said this before, but it bears repeating:

I learn so much every time you post on a topic.

I'm a big fan ...

***tips cap***

Posted by: browndog recognizing talent at February 07, 2025 11:57 AM (TTAGa)

229 10

FUCK THE FUCK OFF ON THE LAST TRAIN TO FUCKSVILLE

Posted by: Elric The Blade at February 07, 2025 11:04 AM (iFTx/)

I'm going to be stealing this one.

Posted by: XTC at February 07, 2025 11:57 AM (sm6Pk)

230 They aren't good ECONONIC policy. If you remove that one word, you change the meaning to something other than what I'm saying.

Ultimately, if... IF we end up getting into trade wars around the globe, it will hurt the U.S., economically.

Whether it will have been worth it, to get rid of unfair trade practices by other governments, that will remain to be seen. But it will hurt U.S. citizens in the pocketbook.

Period.
Posted by: BurtTC
========
Objection, facts not in evidence. In fact, the US actually thrived during a time of high tariffs and once importation of foreign labor ended, it did quite well. BTW, the old nostrum that Smoot Hawley caused the Depression has been specifically and thoroughly debunked by economic historians. Instead what happened is currency flows from US to Germany in order to pay back UK and France for reparations who then returned the money to US for war debts broke down. Plus some other things that could have been resolved by trust busting and applications of securities laws.

It was a big inflationary bubble caused by massive global war debt that popped and that was made worse by ineffective Hoover administration actions.

Posted by: whig at February 07, 2025 11:57 AM (ctrM5)

231 I'm just gonna assume a spherical chicken.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, watching B-movies with Roger Corman at February 07, 2025 11:47 AM

in a vacuum.

Posted by: Grump928(C) at February 07, 2025 11:57 AM (aD39U)

232 I've driven through Indiana a couple of times, but I don't remember if I've driven through Ft. Wayne.

Posted by: From about That Time at February 07, 2025 11:57 AM (4780s)

233
It's not everything, but if everyone knows your name, it's a serious leg up.

Cheers!

Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at February 07, 2025 11:57 AM (63Dwl)

234 159
‘ But aren't we more interested in measuring results (a net benefit to USA public health,) than in measuring processes?’

We could do both. The way I suggested helps keep the Canadians honest. They tend to be as a rule but leftists lie everywhere.

Posted by: Dr. Claw at February 07, 2025 11:58 AM (jbnUc)

235 Reading this thread, I'm reminded of the line that all the economists in the world laid end-to-end would still not reach a conclusion.

Posted by: Bulg at February 07, 2025 11:58 AM (77rzZ)

236 I don't learn anything from whig's posts but that's almost entirely because I'm incapable of learning.

Posted by: ... at February 07, 2025 11:59 AM (Ja2Pp)

237 >>>Canada is getting played by Trump, but to Canada’s benefit. Fascinating to watch.
Posted by: Rube
---

He is Big Daddy, in a good way. And there are nations who understand, cheer, and ally with him.

Posted by: Braenyard - some Absent Friends are more equal than others _ at February 07, 2025 11:59 AM (lCWOD)

238 We could do both. The way I suggested helps keep the Canadians honest. They tend to be as a rule but leftists lie everywhere.
Posted by: Dr. Claw at February 07, 2025 11:58 AM (jbnUc

Especially the Cuban ones.

Posted by: Warai-otoko at February 07, 2025 11:59 AM (VoAdT)

239 Tariffs are a tax on consumers? Well mostly true, partially on consumers, partially on foreign nations. But then what is sales tax besides a tax on consumers? And just on consumers.

And income tax is a tax on working. And the capital gains tax is a tax on investing. And property tax is a tax on owning a home.

All taxes have a negative effect because they take money from individuals. The question is which negative effect is the least bad? And frankly there is no serious way it can be argued that tariffs are not the least bad option

Posted by: 18-1 at February 07, 2025 11:59 AM (t0Rmr)

240 No we didn't. We have people who pretended this was about free trade, and they enriched themselves at the expense of the American citizens.

That's not free trade. And I can't believe you really believe it was.

--------------

Canada will be brought to bear. They are relearning the old adage that they need us a lot more than we need them. But they do have things we should want. Resources and coastline and hockey players.

Posted by: SH (no more socks) at February 07, 2025 12:00 PM (MvebX)

241 Ultimately, if... IF we end up getting into trade wars around the globe, it will hurt the U.S., economically.

Whether it will have been worth it, to get rid of unfair trade practices by other governments, that will remain to be seen. But it will hurt U.S. citizens in the pocketbook.

Period.
Posted by: BurtTC at February 07, 2025 11:52 AM (0m8j3)

I'll jump to say I'm not convinced that a worldwide trade war would hurt the US economy in the big picture.

In the short term, yes. It would take some time to repatriate so many lost industries back to the US. There would be some hurdles.

But in the long term, I think the US would be thriving. Some countries would lose out, but I think most of the world would be fine.

Our biggest asset as a country is that we have a bunch of money, an educated workforce, and the largest consumer economy in the world. "Free trade" undermines every single one of those assets. China gets a lot more benefit from selling in to our economy than we do by being able to buy clothes hangars for $4 a bundle instead of $6 or whatever it would be if they were made in the US.

Posted by: Harry Paratestes at February 07, 2025 12:00 PM (uCjyK)

242
FUCK THE FUCK OFF ON THE LAST TRAIN TO FUCKSVILLE

Posted by: Elric The Blade

It's rich in fricatives! One might even say girthy!

Posted by: Krebs v Carnot: Epic Battle of the Cycling Stars (TM) at February 07, 2025 12:01 PM (xG4kz)

243 Can we just put a tariff on Rush and call it a day?

Posted by: Bulg at February 07, 2025 12:01 PM (77rzZ)

244 228 Posted by: whig at February 07, 2025 11:47 AM (ctrM5)

I've said this before, but it bears repeating:

I learn so much every time you post on a topic.

I'm a big fan ...

***tips cap***
Posted by: browndog
=======
Color me embarrassed, I don't know lots of things but as an INTP personality type (I blame Highland Scot genes), I don't much agree with authority whether academic, society, or government.

For me, the test of the theory is whether it works in practice--I don't much like Rousseau and his obnoxious Social Contract theory but I do agree with his measurement of whether government policy is good or not. It has to benefit the mass of people in a country, not the favored few which is how globalization and free trade has treated the US.

Posted by: whig at February 07, 2025 12:02 PM (ctrM5)

245 ever tell you that I went to high school in Fort Wayne?
Posted by: TheJamesMadison

Even in your lies, some truth slips through. That mythical community you're supposed to come from - Fort Wayne. A fort! Unconsciously you chose a name that was belligerent.

Posted by: Dr. Zaius at February 07, 2025 12:02 PM (JCZqz)

246
NOOD -- Gutting USAID porn

Posted by: Krebs v Carnot: Epic Battle of the Cycling Stars (TM) at February 07, 2025 12:03 PM (xG4kz)

247 Is there some mechanism for all those trillions of Petrodollars to return as cash and compete with Americans to buy stuff? I thought they ultimately got turned into T bills.

Because that would be something to see. $400 a pound coffee would get the hipsters upset, I betcha.

Also keep in mind, “Benefits” like Social Security can be curtailed in an emergency. Foreign debt holder servicing can not. They have to pay interest on the existing debt, or it’s Game Over. They will never pay down the debt, there was never any intent. But they have to make timely interest payments. They will throw Americans under the bus to keep the game going a little while longer. You can take that to the bank.

Posted by: Common Tater at February 07, 2025 12:03 PM (74/ii)

248 245 ever tell you that I went to high school in Fort Wayne?
Posted by: TheJamesMadison

Even in your lies, some truth slips through. That mythical community you're supposed to come from - Fort Wayne. A fort! Unconsciously you chose a name that was belligerent.
Posted by: Dr. Zaius at February 07, 2025 12:02 PM (JCZqz)

=======

I also ate my enemies and grew strong upon their devoured hearts.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, watching B-movies with Roger Corman at February 07, 2025 12:03 PM (GBKbO)

249 Tariffs are the only tax that the left dislikes.

Posted by: SH (no more socks) at February 07, 2025 12:03 PM (Vs9uA)

250 Trump wants to eliminate the income tax, reduce the size of government supportable by tariffs. Just like we did until W. Wilson.

Posted by: Braenyard - some Absent Friends are more equal than others _ at February 07, 2025 12:03 PM (lCWOD)

251 Thanks for the wordy... agreement? Rebuttal? Knowledge?

Reply! Thanks for the reply!

Ha! My point is that National Socialism is the nationalist variant of socialism. But they are all socialism. If people on the left really feared national socialism they wouldn't support socialism at all - a government with limited specific powers can't engage in totalitarianism but one that controls the economy can...and as we've often seen eventually will

Posted by: 18-1 at February 07, 2025 12:03 PM (t0Rmr)

252 So, smart people, what is the answer to bring jobs back? To make moving to MX a less attractive option? To stop having medications manufactured in China?

I am happy to discuss how unions and other cost drivers contribute to the situation, which is a huge part of the steel industry debacle, but it isn’t the whole shebang for all industry.

Posted by: Piper at February 07, 2025 12:04 PM (pZEOD)

253 227 What I think about all this:

I'm surprised that DJT's ask from the tariff threat was drug interdiction. Illegal drugs are one of America's most intractable problems. I wish he had asked for something else, something more likely to succeed.

Our drug problem is caused by demand far more than by supply.

''Drug addiction treatment,' as we have practiced it, is ineffective and astronomically expensive. More effective measures would be judged quite harsh, and would still be expensive.

One can assert "Canada and Mexico folded like cheap suits to Trump's threat, thereby proving it a success." I think the success can be measured mainly by a reduction in the number of USA addicts, which will take time to assess.
Posted by: The Smell Of The gp
=-=====
Doing it for those reasons triggers certain powers under tariff laws for nat sec.

Posted by: whig at February 07, 2025 12:04 PM (ctrM5)

254 107
‘ I sense a trend. My best friend was born and raised in Ft. Wayne. I lived/worked in Indy for 3 years, lived/worked in Lafayette for 3 years.’

I live in Plainfield right now.

Posted by: Dr. Claw at February 07, 2025 12:04 PM (jbnUc)

255 You want to solve the fentanyl issue, leave giant barrels of the shit on every street corner.

Once you go a few consecutive weeks not having to refill the barrel, job done.

Posted by: Warai-otoko at February 07, 2025 12:06 PM (VoAdT)

256 I'll jump to say I'm not convinced that a worldwide trade war would hurt the US economy in the big picture.

In the short term, yes. It would take some time to repatriate so many lost industries back to the US. There would be some hurdles.

Posted by: Harry Paratestes at February 07, 2025 12:00 PM (uCjyK)

In the long run the U.S. would be better off if we told the rest of the world to go F itself, and simply relied on our own internal capabilities.

Crawling out of the mess we created for ourselves would take decades. In the short term though, you would have economic conditions that would be political suicide.

All I'm really advocating for in the here and now is that Trump tread lightly with the tariff stuff, and that people don't fall in love with everything the man says and does.

Posted by: BurtTC at February 07, 2025 12:07 PM (SfHnh)

257 234 "We could do both." I hope we do. I hope we follow up on the success of the maneuver, rather than simply declaring it a complete success immediately with triumphalist cheer.

Posted by: The Smell Of The gp, The Roar Of The Crowd at February 07, 2025 12:07 PM (u01/w)

258
It's rich in fricatives! One might even say girthy!
Posted by: Krebs v Carnot
----

Bilabial

Posted by: Mike Hammerm etc., etc. at February 07, 2025 12:08 PM (XeU6L)

259 Also keep in mind, “Benefits” like Social Security can be curtailed in an emergency. Foreign debt holder servicing can not. They have to pay interest on the existing debt, or it’s Game Over. They will never pay down the debt, there was never any intent. But they have to make timely interest payments. They will throw Americans under the bus to keep the game going a little while longer. You can take that to the bank.
Posted by: Common Tater

Very true, the nat sec crew and the economic wrecker class collaborated via using the reserve currency status of the US for power and wealth. That requires the US to run huge deficits to provide liquidity for foreigners to exchange US dollars for trade and persistent trade deficits less the system collapse.

But, that has been at the cost to our national industries that have provided mass employment and rising living standards until the 1970's when the petrodollar became a thing.

Then you get the rise in influence of financial interests that make their money off the vig from currency transactions, interest payments, and selling out the US assets including government debt to foreigners in exchange for repatriated dollars.

Posted by: whig at February 07, 2025 12:10 PM (ctrM5)

260 Slow reader here. From this morning:
Ted Carstensen, the head of the United States Digital Service (USDS) organization that has been renamed to Elon Musk’s Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE), is resigning instead of taking the “Fork in the Road” buyout offer for federal employees.
----

His letter didn't clarify whether the fork was the fork in the road or the fork with the buyout stuck to it. He didn't sound angry. The question is if he did choose to not take the buyout. How did he accrue enough money to afford not to???

Posted by: Braenyard - some Absent Friends are more equal than others _ at February 07, 2025 12:12 PM (lCWOD)

261 J.M. Keynes was a kiddie fucker. Communist. Sound familiar? It should. Founders of the BIS and World bank were Reds too, in many cases. Harry D. White. Hell, FDR vice-president Wallace was a straight up Soviet spy. And Des Moines named an office building after him. The rot goes deep.

None of this USAID stuff would have been possible without a phony baloney confetti-buck Fed cannon. None of the weird social issues - grooming kids in public libraries, none of it. The currency, the “reserve currency” status made it possible. No other country can run deficits like this. With Retards in Congress and all the alphabet agencies. When it blows up it will be Biblical

Posted by: Common Tater at February 07, 2025 12:14 PM (74/ii)

262 Free trade does not work in a world of slave labor and resource extraction at the lowest possible cost. And, that is the world we live in. Globalism's natural end point is slavery and strip mining.

Posted by: Thomas Paine at February 07, 2025 12:15 PM (lTGtQ)

263 >>>Then you get the rise in influence of financial interests that make their money off the vig from currency transactions, interest payments, and selling out the US assets including government debt to foreigners in exchange for repatriated dollars.
Posted by: whig
---

That ship will run into some heavy turbulence these next years.
It may even run aground. It may be scuttled and scraped.

Posted by: Braenyard - some Absent Friends are more equal than others _ at February 07, 2025 12:16 PM (lCWOD)

264 I wish the people who code spell check knew phonics.

Posted by: Braenyard - some Absent Friends are more equal than others _ at February 07, 2025 12:17 PM (lCWOD)

265 Out of time
Out of date
Always late

Posted by: Braenyard - some Absent Friends are more equal than others _ at February 07, 2025 12:18 PM (lCWOD)

266 165 Keynes argument was that government needs to prime a pump to get things working. Government (FDR et.al) read that as government should always be pumping the pump. Here in lies the problem.
Posted by: Pudinhead at February 07, 2025 11:43 AM (Wg6v7)

Keynes also argued that the Government should never borrow money to stimulate the economy; it had to be paid out of surpluses.

Posted by: Bonecrusher at February 07, 2025 12:23 PM (JNTt1)

267 Who started the "It worked, didn't it"

Posted by: DaveA at February 07, 2025 12:24 PM (FhXTo)

268 “Give me a one-handed Economist. All my economists say 'on ONE hand...', then 'but on the other...”
― Harry Truman

Posted by: Mike Hammerm etc., etc. at February 07, 2025 12:30 PM (XeU6L)

269 'Hammerm'?

Posted by: Mike Hammer etc., etc. at February 07, 2025 12:31 PM (XeU6L)

270 Who started the "It worked, didn't it"
Posted by: DaveA
-------

Harry Reid...or was that snark?

Posted by: Mike Hammer etc., etc. at February 07, 2025 12:32 PM (XeU6L)

271 and that people don't fall in love with everything the man says and does.
Posted by: BurtTC at February 07, 2025 12:07 PM (SfHnh)

Too late for me. If Trump told me a chicken uses snuff I would look under the wing for the box

Posted by: MAC V SOG at February 07, 2025 12:32 PM (P4Pk9)

272 Canadian checking in. Justin has resigned and good riddance. Thank you, Trump. We are a Commonwealth Country yet the USA is our largest trading partner. The threat of tariffs was a way of getting us to make a move on fentanyl and immigration, and it worked - there is now a Czar and the promise of increased surveillance of the border, which is good. I might pay more for eggs and softwood lumber but I am fine with that.

Posted by: Greybeard Represent at February 07, 2025 12:33 PM (jgRaQ)

273

Bibi gave Trump a gift: A golden pager!!!!!!

Hilarious!

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at February 07, 2025 12:37 PM (x0n13)

274 It's worth pointing out that the border crisis is a *Canadian* border crisis, in the sense that the migrants entering the US illegally over the 49th parallel first entered *Canada* illegally. Likewise, the drugs being smuggled into the US were first smuggled into Canada. Canadians may have tolerated this on the grounds that they migrants and drugs were just passing through, however unneighborly that may be, but no doubt some of those people and drugs entering Canada illegally stayed in, or were consumed in, Canada itself. Setting the Mounties on the US border only ensures that *all* of the migrants and drugs stay in Canada. Wouldn't a better approach be to strength Canadian law enforcement on *its own* coastlines and borders? Just sayin' ...

Posted by: Nemo at February 07, 2025 12:43 PM (S6ArX)

275 I enjoyed this piece, Buck.
You make some great points with arguments that need to be spread far and wide.

We don't have Free Trade and never have.
We have "Managed-Regulated Trade" dreamed up by big government bureaucrats and big multi-national corporations who designed a system together that benefited them and their goals for hegemony and profits.

The idea of Free Trade was unheard of until the Brits needed a way to regain competitiveness and re-enter markets they'd lost due to the rapid industrialization of the United States, Germany, and other European states.

The UK needed tariff-free entry into markets they had been locked out of, so for decades they put on a propaganda effort to convince the U.S. that tariffs are evil.

Tariffs had been the main source of federal funding since 1789. The U.S. rose from a poor agricultural nation into the greatest economic powerhouse the world had ever seen. Tariffs never hindered that growth.

Then the Great Depression came, and WWII followed, and the consensus became that Tariffs were one of the main causes for the length of the depression - "Smoot-Hawley."

It's been gospel ever since, and the U.K. still has tariffs on U.S. imports.

Posted by: SpeakingOf at February 07, 2025 01:19 PM (6ydKt)

276 Those "free traders" never seem to consider the tariffs which other countries impose upon US goods. They are blind to that side of the issue.

They also never mention that Trump's going-in position:
Trump: "Eliminate all tariffs between us."
Other countries: "no way in hell."
Trump's 2nd step: "Ok, then we'll match yours."

Furthermore, they don't seem cognizant of the sheer size of the US economy. There was a lovely little article in the Denver Post the other day about Governor Polis lamenting how destructive these Canadian and Mexican tariffs would be. But they never mentioned that the total import/export business of Colorado with Mexico & Canada is just a little over 2% of Colorado's GDP. Somehow, this 25% buck on 2% was going to destroy evertything.

Posted by: LCMS Rulz! at February 07, 2025 02:33 PM (bufu1)

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