Sunday Morning Book Thread - 1-12-2025 ["Perfessor" Squirrel]

Welcome to the prestigious, internationally acclaimed, stately, and illustrious Sunday Morning Book Thread! The place where all readers are welcome, regardless of whatever guilty pleasure we feel like reading (requires two Horadric cubes). Here is where we can discuss, argue, bicker, quibble, consider, debate, confabulate, converse, and jaw about our latest fancy in reading material. As always, pants are required, unless you are wearing these pants...

So relax, find yourself a warm kitty (or warm puppy--I won't judge) to curl up in your lap, and dive into a new book. What are YOU reading this fine morning?

PIC NOTE

This grotesque monstrosity is the Geisel Library at the University of California-San Diego. It was renamed the Geisel Library in 1995 to honor Audrey and Theodor "Dr. Seuss" Geisel. The top of the building features a carillon of chimes that sound out the hour throughout the day. The university even has a carillonneur to play live concerts.

CLASSICS RESOURCES

Moronette KT sent me a link to the Antigone website, which brands itself as "a new and open forum for Classics in the twenty-first century. It's a treasure trove of classic works in their original language. It's a great resource for scholars and anyone who is interested in broadening their knowledge of the ancient world by reading works from that era.

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THE PROBLEM WITH PREQUELS

I'm no stranger to reading prequels. I have quite a few prequel novels and series in my personal library. Prequels in and of themselves are NOT bad (unless the writer is a terrible writer, of course). But I do think that prequels by their very nature have one key limitation that prevents them from outshining their source material.

We know how it ends. In other words, because the prequel is spawned from a previously written novel or series of novels, and it takes place before the events in that source series, we know that certain events MUST happen in a particular way in order to for that following series to happen. Characters MUST survive that are instrumental to the plot in the source series.

However, that doesn't mean an author can't have fun with a prequel, taking it in interesting directions as we see the characters in an earlier state of being. Maybe we get to see the character development of key characters in the source material so that we have a better understanding of their motivations. Or we get to see some of the tough challenges in the past that shaped their character when they are fully mature. We get to witness them work through key traumatic events in their backstory. This can even apply to the villain as well as the hero.

In the Malazan series, for instance, Esslemont shows us how Cotillion, the patron god of assassins, rises from a skilled killer to become the most feared assassin who ever lived. Kellanved, his companion in the prequels, demonstrates his insane audacity more than once, resulting in him becoming the god of manipulative bastardry (if that's such a thing).

One of the additional problems with prequels is that the author runs the risk of ret-conning a character by including details that don't quite match up with our first encounter with them in the source material. R. A. Salvatore's Dark Elf Trilogy does this a bit by establishing his main character Drizzt Do'Urden as being quite young (for an elf) when he meets up with the dwarf Bruenor Battlehammer. However, in The Crystal Shard, which introduces Drizzt for the first time, Drizzt states that he's a couple centuries old by that time. It's a minor blip, but it does affect the way Drizzt behaves in the first novel compared to his actions in the prequels. On the plus side, Salvatore was able to really develop dark elven society and culture for subsequent novels.

Which prequels have YOU enjoyed or found problematic?

MORON RECOMMENDATIONS

I expect to finish off The Mercy of Gods by James S.A. Corey today. I really like this book, there is something about alien species with value systems orthogonal to ours (in general) that I find fascinating. Corey is a pen name for two guys, who also wrote The Expanse series, a good (but slow, as always) streamer series.
The most interesting part about this book is the exploration of collaboration with conquerors. Acquiesce and live to fight another day, or fight and die? What if the fate of our species rests on not fighting? Better to die on your feet than live on your knees, but can you make that decision for all of humanity?
Posted by: Candidus at January 05, 2025 09:23 AM (DcZ8z)

Comment: A sad fact of life is that humanity conquers. If aliens aren't around, we're more than happy to conquer each other. History has demonstrated again and again and again that not all cultures and societies place an equal value on the lives of others. Some cultures and societies were so repugnant that wiping them out completely was a net benefit for mankind. Dealing with the eccentricities of truly alien cultures (i.e., those of extra-terrestrial origins) is a standard trope in science fiction. I, too, find that fascinating as two wildly divergent cultures seek to understand each other.

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More Everest stuff, so I'll be brief. Shook by Jennifer Hull is about a 2014 expedition. They were doing acclimation, to get ready for the climb, when an earthquake hit base camp. About 200 climbers were stranded on camps 1 & 2, which had to be rescued by helicopter. The entire season was shut down and many Sherpas were killed at the mountain and in their homes. Well written and a good read. It was Dave Hahn's last trip to Everest.

Also finished Michael Groom's Sheer Will. He's an Australian climber with a long career. The book is about his climbing history (with an Everest summit without oxygen). He had to add a chapter about the 1996 climb, when he was a guide. It's pretty brief and limited to only what he personally experienced. I saw complaints about him on You Tube and wound up arguing with strangers about Jon Krakauer. I try not to do this but Krakauer made up some things when he wrote Into Thin Air. I have a couple more books to read on that climb, mostly from the IMAX team.
Posted by: Notsothoreau at January 05, 2025 09:33 AM (NQtI0)

Comment: Mountain climbing is not for the faint of heart. It takes a lot of preparation and skill to make that final ascent to the top. Although, if you look for pics of the summit of Mount Everest, you can see that there's a pretty steady line of people working their way up and down the summit. Almost like a trip to the local scenic view. I think mountain climbing is emblematic of the human spirit to conquer nature as well as each other. We climb those mountains because they are there! Now, who's up for a trip to Mars to climb Olympus Mons?

More Moron-recommended reading material can be found HERE! (1000+ Moron-recommended books!)

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WHAT I'VE BEEN READING THIS PAST WEEK:

After reviewing some of OregonMuse's old Book Threads, I thought I'd try something a bit different. Instead of just listing WHAT I'm reading, I'll include commentary as well. Unless otherwise specified, you can interpret this as an implied recommendation, though as always your mileage may vary.

Paths to Ascendancy Book 4 - Path of the High Mage by Ian C. Esslemont

This takes place a couple decades after Book 3. By this time the Malazans have expanded out from their single island and have conquered most of the continent of Quan Tali. Now they turn their sights on the Falar archipelago, which consists of several islands linked by their worship of the sea god Mael. To defend themselves against the Malazans, they unleash a terrifying force that can wipe out entire cities. Meanwhile, the Malazans have to deal with the awakening of the Mountain that Moves, an ancient device that allowed the precursor race of saurian K'Chain Che'Malle to rule the world in the distant past.

There are a lot of crazy storylines in this one novel, so it can be a bit difficult to keep track of what's going on at any given time. Several different groups (Malazans, Crimson Guard, a crazed Jaghut tyrant, and so forth) are all vying to rule the seas of Falar and while some factions will align with each other, they don't all get along at all. The Crimson Guard will go on to become one of the Malazans' chief foes in the coming decades as the Malazans continue to expand their empire.

Night of Knives by Ian C. Esslemont

This is the first book in a open-ended series of Malazan novels by Ian C. Esslemont. This is a fairly small story, keeping the action confined primarily to Malaz City, where the Malazan Empire began. It's been almost 100 years since the founding of the Empire. Kellanved, the Emperor, and his associate Dancer have been missing for quite some time. Their Imperial Regent, Surly, makes a play for the throne on an ominous night, as the Shadow Moon rises, bringing with it ill omens and portents for the future. The Deadhouse is awakening and one of its inhabitants seeks his freedom from confinement. It's up to a battle-scarred veteran and a plucky street kid to resolve the issues that plague the city on this dark night. Staying alive is their biggest challenge as terror stalks the streets.

Destination: Void by Frank Herbert

This is a prequel of sorts to The Jesus Incident, though Herbert wrote this several years before the latter novel. Humanity is reaching for the stars by sending out a colony ship to Tau Ceti. The colonists (clones) are kept in stasis while a skeleton crew maintains ships operations. However, the Organic Mental Cores that control the ship have gone insane, killing half the crew. Now the remaining crew must figure out a way to keep themselves and their cargo alive or the entire future of humanity may be over before it begins.

Their plan involves jury rigging an artificial consciousness using the resources and materials they have on board, since they are billions of miles from home. Oh, and because this book was written in the 1960s, that means using ANALOG computers...

PREVIOUS SUNDAY MORNING BOOK THREAD - 1-5-2025 (NOTE: Do NOT comment on old threads!)

Tips, suggestions, recommendations, etc., can all be directed to perfessor -dot- squirrel -at- gmail -dot- com.

Disclaimer: No Morons were physically harmed in the making of this Sunday Morning Book Thread. Do not pass GO. Do not collect 200 quatloos.

Posted by: Open Blogger at 09:00 AM

Comments

(Jump to bottom of comments)

1 John Van Stry's fifth book in his "Wolfhounds" series, "Manifest Destiny" is out. I'm about 60% through it and it's a very enjoyable read (no surprise there.) The push to take back colony worlds from the usurper continues, and you get a really good look at how it's not just about the fleet battles, but it's also about solving logistics and economic problems on the worlds they're taking back, while still continuing to try to push forward and win the war.

Further, John's a couple of sales at Amazon for two of his books in the USA and Canada.

First, he's got a one-day sale coming up on Wednesday January 22 for "Stand Alone" (the first book in his Wolfhounds series.) It'll be $2.99 on that date.

Second, he's got a month-long sale on "Serendipity", the first book in his "Ghost Warrior" series. It's $1.99.

So if you've been waiting for a sale to start either of those two series, well there you go.

Posted by: Grumpy and Recalcitrant at January 12, 2025 08:59 AM (O7YUW)

2 I also just finished a Raconteur Press anthology called "The Super Generation" where all the tales within revolve around an event that happens in the past that creates a bunch of super powered individuals. They can't pass the powers on to their offspring, so once that generation is gone, it's gone. The world has to adjust to their presence, and then their absence, neither of which is easy for either the supers or the regular folk, or the governments (and wow do some of the governments get ugly when they're trying to control that which they basically can't control.)

Posted by: Grumpy and Recalcitrant at January 12, 2025 08:59 AM (O7YUW)

3 Happy Sunday

Posted by: rhennigantx at January 12, 2025 08:59 AM (gbOdA)

4 BOOKZZZ!

Posted by: vmom deport deport deport at January 12, 2025 09:00 AM (dE3DB)

5 Morning, Perfessor.

Howdy, Horde.

And now to the content...

Posted by: Just Some Guy at January 12, 2025 09:01 AM (q3u5l)

6 Tolle Lege
Moving well along in Martin Gilbert's Churchill, a Life
I thought I knew lots about him but am surprised how much I didn't

Posted by: Skip at January 12, 2025 09:01 AM (fwDg9)

7 What about kilts?

Posted by: Boss Moss at January 12, 2025 09:01 AM (YeGMU)

8 I recognized that library! First husband and I went on a driving trip to California in 1977 and I took a picture of it when we were in San Diego because it was so UFO looking.

The only reason I remember the year is that when we got home to Dallas, there were lines all around the movie theaters. When we asked why, we were told "Star Wars." We'd never heard of it, nor had most other people.

Posted by: Art Rondelet of Malmsey at January 12, 2025 09:03 AM (FEVMW)

9 The brian herbert prequels werent terrible

Posted by: Miguel cervantes at January 12, 2025 09:04 AM (dJR17)

10 I wrote one prequel, and I think I managed the trick pretty well. There was one character from the later book, but in the prequel that person was a secondary character and the spotlight was on some others who the reader hadn't seen before. That way there's still tension and suspense because we don't know what happened to _these_ people.

It helps that I conceived of it as a standalone novel and my publisher made me put in the series character for continuity.

Posted by: Trimegistus at January 12, 2025 09:04 AM (78a2H)

11 I read 2 of the books Perfesser talked about in the last book thread - Faerie Tale (a reread for me) and Dreams and Shadows.

Dreams and Shadows started out promising for me, but toward the end I decided I didn't like it.
I browsed other reviews and one reviewer I think put his finger on the problem when he noted that this was the first novel by a screenwriter and it's structured like a tv series.

I don't think it's the structure per se, but it made me see that the lack of depth of characterization was probably something that actors fiesh out, and the gratuitous "drama" did feel like made for tv "oh noez" moments.

Made me think deeper about how writing for different mediums takes different skills and approaches.

Posted by: vmom deport deport deport at January 12, 2025 09:06 AM (dE3DB)

12 My favorite prequel has to be The Magician's Nephew by C.S. Lewis.

Posted by: Thomas Paine at January 12, 2025 09:06 AM (IsE+F)

13 I honestly thought I would be done with the Luke Cage reprints by now. I'll blame a kidney stone that threw me out of whack for most of the week. Then I'll complain about dull overscripting.

But I wonder how I was able to go through 20 comics in one night during my single days.

Posted by: Weak Geek at January 12, 2025 09:07 AM (p/isN)

14 IT IS DONE. Yesterday I finished Gilbert's mammoth door-stopper of a book and I'm not going to candy-coat this: the ending was a slog.

Gilbert made the decision to tell events as they unfolded, and had the notion of not giving you information before it happened, presumably to increase suspense.

It doesn't. It makes it tedious to see all the people worrying about the thing, anticipating a thing, and then it doesn't happen. I speak specifically of Churchill's desire for a four-power summit and his resignation from his second term as prime minister.

These are known historical events and you can look them up. Gilbert, however, tries to tease it out, I guess showing you how deranged and unrealistic Churchill had become at the end of his career and the hagiography is thick here. Churchill knew he needed American support, and Eisenhower wasn't going to do it. Ike was in the Big Chair now, and Winston couldn't browbeat him or go over his head. It was a shameful, pathetic episode and to draw it out had me checking page numbers to see how much more of this I had to take.

Put simply, the ending did not equal the early or middle sections. Gilbert himself may have been worn out.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at January 12, 2025 09:07 AM (ZOv7s)

15 The Boston city hall of libraries. Not good.

Posted by: From about That Time at January 12, 2025 09:08 AM (4780s)

16 JACK SMITH IS OUT! THE INQUISITOR IS BURNED!

NPR
www.npr.org
Jack Smith has resigned from the justice department, after submitting his Trump ...

Posted by: Richard McEnroe at January 12, 2025 09:08 AM (Ag+aB)

17 "A sad fact of life is that humanity conquers."

Geez, dude.

Posted by: Quarter Twenty at January 12, 2025 09:08 AM (dg+HA)

18 Ohio State has a carillon also. I remember walking to classes while it was played.

Posted by: Tuna at January 12, 2025 09:08 AM (oaGWv)

19 Magician's Nephew: EXACTLY how to do a prequel! DON'T give us Edmund and Lucy's goddamned "backstory" -- show us NEW characters and make us care about them.

Posted by: Trimegistus at January 12, 2025 09:09 AM (78a2H)

20 History has demonstrated again and again and again that not all cultures and societies place an equal value on the lives of others. Some cultures and societies were so repugnant that wiping them out completely was a net benefit for mankind. Dealing with the eccentricities of truly alien cultures (i.e., those of extra-terrestrial origins) is a standard trope in science fiction. I, too, find that fascinating as two wildly divergent cultures seek to understand each other.

With regard to the whole "should we let aliens know we're here" question, I suggest reading the Three Body Problem series by Cixin Liu. It's also on Netflix as a series. I don't want to give away any of the plot, but suffice it to say that the question merits real thought, and perhaps we'd best think deeply it about before blasting messages into space.

https://is.gd/b3Sr6P

Posted by: Archimedes at January 12, 2025 09:09 AM (xCA6C)

21 This is a fun Substack on books, reading, and libraries:

https://is.gd/CN5cVl

Posted by: I am the Shadout Mapes, the Housekeeper at January 12, 2025 09:09 AM (PiwSw)

22 The Man of Destiny series started out as a corrective of the Star Wars prequels. If you squint just so, you can see who inspired the characters.

But the changes I made necessitated a new ending, which is why the trilogy has four books.

I'm firmly against prequels.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at January 12, 2025 09:10 AM (ZOv7s)

23 This grotesque monstrosity...
-

That's what I said!

Posted by: Biden's Dog sniffs a whole lotta malarkey, at January 12, 2025 09:10 AM (q8Zj0)

24 John Van Stry needs to write the sequel to Summer's End.

Posted by: NaCly Dog at January 12, 2025 09:10 AM (u82oZ)

25 And the Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe should be the canonical first book in the series, not the prequel.

Posted by: I am the Shadout Mapes, the Housekeeper at January 12, 2025 09:10 AM (PiwSw)

26 JACK SMITH IS OUT! THE INQUISITOR IS BURNED!

I did not expect that.

Posted by: Archimedes at January 12, 2025 09:10 AM (xCA6C)

27 I was just gifted the Douglas Adams “ Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy “. This is the one with 5 of his books in one volume. Anyone have any thoughts? Good or bad or just meh?
It seems interesting as I have skimmed a few pages. Thanks book horde.

Posted by: RetsgtRN at January 12, 2025 09:10 AM (u/qNw)

28 Most of the Horatio Hornblower series are prequels. They are well done.

Posted by: NaCly Dog at January 12, 2025 09:11 AM (u82oZ)

29 KTE has instructed me to start reading her new book discovery, a cozy vampire mystery series.
First book is The Vampire Knitting Club by Nancy Warren.
The cover gives me a Nancy Drew vibe

Posted by: vmom deport deport deport at January 12, 2025 09:11 AM (dE3DB)

30 Jack Smith has resigned from the justice department, after submitting his Trump ...

Posted by: Richard McEnroe at January 12, 2025 09:08 AM (Ag+aB)
-

This is the book thread.

So now you have to right a book about it. Minimum: 125 pages.

Posted by: Biden's Dog sniffs a whole lotta malarkey, at January 12, 2025 09:11 AM (q8Zj0)

31 I'm stuck in The Count of Monte Cristo. It's a chunk of a book. 999 chapters or something. I'd rather another Dr. Thorndyke.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at January 12, 2025 09:11 AM (IG4Id)

32 Man, I used to follow xkcd faithfully, along with a few other webcomics. Then came Trump. When I found out how their creators felt about him, I dropped them. Now too much time has passed for me to restart them, but I wonder how the strips are doing.

But I also dropped "Day by Day" at the start of the Obama administration, and I'm not sure why.

Posted by: Weak Geek at January 12, 2025 09:12 AM (p/isN)

33 RetsgtRN

Tis a silly collection of stories. Good for read once for the amusement.

Posted by: NaCly Dog at January 12, 2025 09:13 AM (u82oZ)

34 "This grotesque monstrosity is the Geisel Library at the University of California-San Diego"

Looks like a parking garage.

Posted by: Tuna at January 12, 2025 09:13 AM (oaGWv)

35 I used to be really good at spotting matte paintings in movies, so skillfully done before the digital age.

The Robocop OCP building first six floors is the brutalist Dallas town hall, and then extends up 100 stories in matte painting.

I'm halfway through Jack Vance Star King. Film noir vibes. I'm not really loving it though.

Posted by: BourbonChicken at January 12, 2025 09:14 AM (lhenN)

36 I was just gifted the Douglas Adams “ Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy “. This is the one with 5 of his books in one volume. Anyone have any thoughts? Good or bad or just meh?
It seems interesting as I have skimmed a few pages. Thanks book horde.
Posted by: RetsgtRN at January 12, 2025 09:10 AM (u/qNw)
---
I laughed out loud when I read it as a teenager. Very English wit - absurdity piled on absurdity.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at January 12, 2025 09:14 AM (ZOv7s)

37 33 RetsgtRN

Tis a silly collection of stories. Good for read once for the amusement.
Posted by: NaCly Dog at January 12, 2025 09:13 AM (u82oZ)

If only to know the answer to the Ultimate Question of Life, the Universe, and Everything.

Posted by: I am the Shadout Mapes, the Housekeeper at January 12, 2025 09:14 AM (PiwSw)

38 I think one way to write a compelling prequel would be to insert new characters that are interesting in their own right and then create suspense about their fate, to the extent that's possible.

But yeah, the "we already know how this ends" issue marks a lot of prequels, in my experience.

Posted by: Dr. T at January 12, 2025 09:15 AM (jGGMD)

39 "This grotesque monstrosity is the Geisel Library at the University of California-San Diego"

Looks like a parking garage.
Posted by: Tuna at January 12, 2025 09:13 AM (oaGWv)
-

It looks fireproof.

Posted by: Biden's Dog sniffs a whole lotta malarkey, at January 12, 2025 09:15 AM (q8Zj0)

40 University Libraries are devolving. Chemical Abstracts and e-publishing is how you keep up with the newest research. And the bias is to purge old holdings.

Not sure how the other sciences cope.

Posted by: NaCly Dog at January 12, 2025 09:16 AM (u82oZ)

41 Do flannel boxer shorts count as pants?

Posted by: Boss Moss at January 12, 2025 09:16 AM (YeGMU)

42 27 I was just gifted the Douglas Adams “ Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy “. This is the one with 5 of his books in one volume. Anyone have any thoughts? Good or bad or just meh?
It seems interesting as I have skimmed a few pages. Thanks book horde.
Posted by: RetsgtRN at January 12, 2025 09:10 AM (u/qNw)

Nah. Book sucks. You should send it to me for proper disposal.

Posted by: Reforger at January 12, 2025 09:17 AM (xcIvR)

43 So now you have to ~~right~~ write a book about it. Minimum: 125 pages.

Posted by: Biden's Dog sniffs a whole lotta malarkey, at January 12, 2025 09:11 AM (q8Zj0)
-

FIFM.

Tired after a 2.5 hour drive and then jumping straight into work, with grandpups running all over me on the side.

Posted by: Biden's Dog sniffs a whole lotta malarkey, at January 12, 2025 09:17 AM (q8Zj0)

44 If only to know the answer to the Ultimate Question of Life, the Universe, and Everything.
Posted by: I am the Shadout Mapes, the Housekeeper

I did wish for a little more applicability to solving known problems with that answer. Alas.

Posted by: NaCly Dog at January 12, 2025 09:17 AM (u82oZ)

45 We're waaay to late to do anything to hide our presence from any aliens who might be capable of doing anything to us across interstellar distances. Our planet's got an oxygen atmosphere out of equilibrium, so anybody can tell there's life here. There have been measurable changes in other atmosphere gases over the past couple of centuries (Freon, carbon monoxide, ozone, etc.) so the presence of a technological civilization is also obvious. Radio noise actually isn't an issue, unless you count a few one-off "messages" beamed at specific stars, most of which are very far-off.

Just to ruin everyone's sleep: it's a LOT easier to hit a planet with relativistic projectiles than it is to ship an invasion force to another star system.

Posted by: Trimegistus at January 12, 2025 09:18 AM (78a2H)

46 Jack smith is a grand inquisitor he resembles a character from shelly's heart

Posted by: Miguel cervantes at January 12, 2025 09:18 AM (dJR17)

47 I was just gifted the Douglas Adams “ Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy “. This is the one with 5 of his books in one volume. Anyone have any thoughts? Good or bad or just meh?

I laughed out loud when I read it. Very British.

Posted by: Tuna at January 12, 2025 09:18 AM (oaGWv)

48 University Libraries are devolving. Chemical Abstracts and e-publishing is how you keep up with the newest research. And the bias is to purge old holdings.

I found it MUCH more convenient to use the digital CA than the old musty books. A pdf beats a bad Xerox every time. The need for technical librarians plummeted but their numbers never seemed to match.

Posted by: Archimedes at January 12, 2025 09:19 AM (xCA6C)

49 Shortly after Columbus discovered the Americas, France invaded the Italian states. While the Italians were unable to protect their territory, an unassuming monk was able to dissuade the French from sacking Florence. Girolamo Savonarola managed to pacify the troops and save the city, but then he began to criticize the corruption among the Italian rulers as well, fueling the anger of the elites.

Scourge and Fire, by Lauro Martines traces the story of the hero that became enemy of the state who turned renaissance Italy upside down. Savonarola was determined to renew Christianity and root out corruption in both the church and the state. When he began to criticize the pope as well as the Medici, he was excommunicated and declared an outlaw.

As a result, a trial by fire was arranged, but a timely rainstorm showed many that the monk was indeed under God's protection. However, the ruling families eventually joined the church authorities, beheaded five nobles who had been protecting him, and laid siege to his monastery, forcing him to surrender and meet his fate. This is interesting history that shows the timeless nature of corruption.

Posted by: Thomas Paine at January 12, 2025 09:19 AM (IsE+F)

50 Good Sunday morning, horde.

I read Tyrannosaur Canyon by Douglas Preston, in which a man has made a great fossil discovery in the NM badlands, and is killed for it. With his dying breath, he gives his notebook to a man who tried to save him.

Lots of people and agencies want this notebook, and what it reveals, so the would-be rescuer must escape many hunters before he finds the dead man's daughter, to whom he has pledged to give the book.

It was a good adventure.

Posted by: Dash my lace wigs! at January 12, 2025 09:19 AM (OX9vb)

51 Just to ruin everyone's sleep: it's a LOT easier to hit a planet with relativistic projectiles than it is to ship an invasion force to another star system.
Posted by: Trimegistus at January 12, 2025 09:18 AM (78a2H)

Never Give Up, Never Surrender!

Posted by: I am the Shadout Mapes, the Housekeeper at January 12, 2025 09:19 AM (PiwSw)

52 Eons since I read Destination: Void, but I do recall enjoying it and that it had a killer of a closing line. Say 'Frank Herbert' and everybody thinks Dune, but this kid enjoyed Destination: Void more. Go figure. Soul Catcher is another Herbert that doesn't get much press, but it's a pretty good read and not sf.

Reading this week -- skipped through some of James Sallis's Difficult Lives/Hitching Rides: Essays on Noir. Some nice pieces in there on Jim Thompson, David Goodis, Chester Himes, Gerald Kersh and others. This one came out on Kindle earlier this week, after multiple postponements -- I'd first pre-ordered this one in the Kindle store 6 years ago. I'd long since given up on seeing it and had picked up a used paperback a few years ago; nice to finally have a copy for the ebook reader.

Posted by: Just Some Guy at January 12, 2025 09:19 AM (q3u5l)

53 Trimegistus

We need a Galactic Patrol to save Tellus. Sunbeams for the win.

Posted by: NaCly Dog at January 12, 2025 09:19 AM (u82oZ)

54 I read Kurt Schlichter's The Attack this week. It's kind of eh. Maybe all the way into bad writing. He's got a built in fan base so people like me read it.

It's about an October 7 type attack on the US but scaled to US size.

It would make a good short story or article but Kurt pads it out over 300 pages. It's written in an interviewer takes oral histories format like World War Z (he acknowledges that) but as he goes through three different interviews he may have three wildly different characters use the same language to describe a small detail of an event. Like he was perseverating on that detail until he latches onto a new thing that appears in three more interviews.

Made it repetitive and tedious.

Posted by: blaster at January 12, 2025 09:20 AM (QfvaV)

55 Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at January 12, 2025 09:07 AM (ZOv7s)

As I've mentioned, I read the Manchester biography of Churchill, as opposed to Gilbert, but it gave me a very sour view of Eisenhower due to how things fell out with Churchill. Ike came across, at least to me, as a very cold, narrow-minded individual who had no respect for the British view of things at all. I had that impression already from some of my WWII readings, but the bio really strengthened it.

Posted by: Dr. T at January 12, 2025 09:20 AM (jGGMD)

56 Shameless self-promotion: If you want a look at an earlier episode of government incompetence in the face of disaster, check out my Three Weeks with the Coasties: A Tale of Disaster and also an Oil Spill.

It's based on my experiences at the Unified Area Command in New Orleans during the Deepwater Horizon recovery. Despite the topic, it is quite amusing and most of the absurdities chronicled actually happened. Some of this stuff can't be made up.

It's a family favorite because it documents the full experience of being mobilized, so I show the tyrannical supervisor as well as the family's reaction to Dad going away for a while: eldest is looking forward to the extra cash; middle kid wants souvenirs, but the youngest wants Daddy to stay home.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at January 12, 2025 09:20 AM (ZOv7s)

57 The Geisel Library reminds me of the incredibly ugly National Library of Kosovo, except it must be in a better neighborhood, because all the bars have been removed from the windows.
https://tinyurl.com/4jahev8b
https://tinyurl.com/53mnbdp2

Posted by: Military Moron at January 12, 2025 09:21 AM (JCZqz)

58 Hola, fellow bibliophages. Nice snowy day for reading here.

Still in the beginning bits of "Fellowship of the Ring". I keep getting distracted by Fonstad's map book and by going down Wiki rabbitholes on Tolkienia.

Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes at January 12, 2025 09:21 AM (kpS4V)

59 Just to ruin everyone's sleep: it's a LOT easier to hit a planet with relativistic projectiles than it is to ship an invasion force to another star system.

Thanks a lot.
*wide eyes*

Posted by: Archimedes at January 12, 2025 09:22 AM (xCA6C)

60 #27 hitch hikers set. I have it. It's entertaining but certainly not life changing. A good pick it up, put it down type book for when your deciding what to read next.

Posted by: From about That Time at January 12, 2025 09:22 AM (4780s)

61 Archimedes

Every research chemist feels he is better than the chemical librarians. This is known.

Posted by: NaCly Dog at January 12, 2025 09:22 AM (u82oZ)

62 Another Upvote for HHG2 ( Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy for the uninitiated )

A sample ( from memory )

Slartibartfast: "It's unpleasantly like being drunk."
Arthur Dent: "What's so unpleasant about being drunk?"
Slartibartfast: "Ask a glass of water."

Posted by: I am the Shadout Mapes, the Housekeeper at January 12, 2025 09:22 AM (PiwSw)

63 I have and reread both Hitchhiker's Guide and Restaurant at the end of the Universe.
I have always enjoyed his humor from when I was in England and listened and taped the radio play.
Wonder if I still have them.

Posted by: Skip at January 12, 2025 09:22 AM (fwDg9)

64 An alien civilization might nuke us from orbit without much fuss no need to send large space armies use small teams to mop up the stragglers

Posted by: Miguel cervantes at January 12, 2025 09:23 AM (dJR17)

65 But I also dropped "Day by Day" at the start of the Obama administration, and I'm not sure why.
Posted by: Weak Geek at January 12, 2025 09:12 AM (p/isN)

Because the artist made it all porny?

Posted by: blaster at January 12, 2025 09:23 AM (QfvaV)

66 Trimegistus

Hitting planets with even tiny particles at high values of c would ruin the reuse of the planet.

Fortunately, limited lifespans and cosmic distances are our first line of defense

Unless the Aliens are controlled by Newsom and Bass bots, that only destroy.

Posted by: NaCly Dog at January 12, 2025 09:25 AM (u82oZ)

67 But I also dropped "Day by Day" at the start of the Obama administration, and I'm not sure why.
Posted by: Weak Geek at January 12, 2025 09:12 AM (p/isN)

Because the artist made it all porny?
Posted by: blaster

Glad I'm not the only one who noticed.

Posted by: Tuna at January 12, 2025 09:25 AM (oaGWv)

68 Apparently inspired elon (dont know what character he would model himself after)

Posted by: Miguel cervantes at January 12, 2025 09:25 AM (dJR17)

69 Ike came across, at least to me, as a very cold, narrow-minded individual who had no respect for the British view of things at all.

Eh, he was SHAEF for a reason; he could get along with the Brits, not to mention having a Brit mistress. No, I think his main problem with the Brits was their insistence on continuing the empire, when even a blind man could see that it was over. Some Brits also still had the "colonial" mindset when it came to Americans, and wanted to continue playing the superpower, when it was clear they no longer were.

Ike warned them not to go into the Suez, and they did it anyway. He needed to readjust their world view, and did.

Posted by: Archimedes at January 12, 2025 09:25 AM (xCA6C)

70 Frankly, prequels are usually a bad idea. Imagine you've never seen any of the Star Wars films, so you decide to watch them in chronological order. Uneven tone and a slow start, but everybody seems to like them so you stick to it. What do you see?

You're going to notice that the "fourth" movie (=the real Star Wars) gets everything wrong! Between the "prequel trilogy" and Rogue One, and then the later revelations, just about every single statement of fact made by any character in that film is false. It gets a lot of the "lore" wrong, and most of the characters are unlike their earlier or later appearances.

Even Tolkien had trouble fitting his "legendarium" together without contradictions. I think the only way to do it is to emulate Lovecraft and embrace the inconsistencies.

Posted by: Trimegistus at January 12, 2025 09:26 AM (78a2H)

71 As I've mentioned, I read the Manchester biography of Churchill, as opposed to Gilbert, but it gave me a very sour view of Eisenhower due to how things fell out with Churchill. Ike came across, at least to me, as a very cold, narrow-minded individual who had no respect for the British view of things at all. I had that impression already from some of my WWII readings, but the bio really strengthened it.
Posted by: Dr. T at January 12, 2025 09:20 AM (jGGMD)
---
Gilbert tries to paint Ike as the villain as well, but it didn't work for me. Churchill's England was living in a dream. They had all these plans and wanted to use the Americans like a rented mule to save their empire, boost their economy, and rearm them on the cheap.

But their day was done, and a lot of their damage was self-inflicted by the Atlee government that kept rationing in effect for years after the war ended.

Ike knew that the US public wanted to go back to sleep, leave the world to itself, and so US intervention had to be minimal, but also with a clear goal of stopping the Reds. Preverving Anglo-French control of Suez? Shoring up tottering imperial colonies? No thanks.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at January 12, 2025 09:27 AM (ZOv7s)

72 Tuna

Me three. He could have been a contender.

Posted by: NaCly Dog at January 12, 2025 09:28 AM (u82oZ)

73 1 John Van Stry's fifth book in his "Wolfhounds" series, "Manifest Destiny" is out. I'm about 60% through it
Posted by: Grumpy and Recalcitrant at January 12, 2025 08:59 AM (O7YUW)

Picked it up on Kindle yesterday and about 1/3 through it so far.

Look forward to 2 other projects to hit the market: Valley of Fire and Dan's Inferno book #5.

-SLV

Posted by: Shy Lurking Voter at January 12, 2025 09:28 AM (e/Osv)

74 Archimedes

Every research chemist feels he is better than the chemical librarians. This is known.

Over a roughly 40 year career, I think I used them once or twice to find a particular volume. Other than that, they were the gatekeepers for the InterLibrary Loan, for no apparent reason.

I'm not saying they were bad people, they were helpful when I asked for it, but I do think it's a job whose raison d'etre has ceased to be.

Posted by: Archimedes at January 12, 2025 09:28 AM (xCA6C)

75 Those pants...where did you find my granddaughter's pants??

Posted by: Dash my lace wigs! at January 12, 2025 09:29 AM (OX9vb)

76 Posted by: Archimedes at January 12, 2025 09:25 AM (xCA6C)

I'll admit that I haven't read very deeply into Eisenhower as a person, so I probably shouldn't be giving an evaluation of him. I can only say that from what I have read, I get a really disagreeable impression of him. Credit for winning the war, absolutely; but that's about as far as I go.

Posted by: Dr. T at January 12, 2025 09:29 AM (jGGMD)

77 I think i saw that structure in buckk eogers

Fun facf the initial sets used the montreal olympics models

Posted by: Miguel cervantes at January 12, 2025 09:31 AM (dJR17)

78 They were so bad IMO that I couldn't get through them, but I found every single page of the prequels to Asimov's Foundation series to be nauseating.

Posted by: Qwinn at January 12, 2025 09:31 AM (I3XdN)

79 Even Tolkien had trouble fitting his "legendarium" together without contradictions. I think the only way to do it is to emulate Lovecraft and embrace the inconsistencies.

Posted by: Trimegistus at January 12, 2025 09:26 AM (78a2H)
---
To be fair, Tolkien was also trying to re-create the Council of God in a more accessible form, which led to lots of philosophical/theological questions.

Middle Earth is also about the most detailed alternate universe ever devised, so I cut him slack.

Also: his 'prequels' were written before LotR, but published after. He updated both as he worked through LotR, and his later work was trying to piece it all together, tying work from the Army hospitals who what he wrote in the 1950s. A monumental task if there ever was one.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at January 12, 2025 09:31 AM (ZOv7s)

80 Dr. T

We will disagree on this. Two books:

Hidden Hand Presidency and At Ease; Stories I Tell My Friends are the gateways to understanding Eisenhower.

If you get out this way, I'll go with you to the Eisenhower Museum. The new redo is amazing.

Posted by: NaCly Dog at January 12, 2025 09:32 AM (u82oZ)

81 Also last week I talked about reading Going Home which I have dubbed Prepper-lit. It's very gear heavy (not a backpack but a Maxpedition Devildog)

But also a little gun porny. And Schlichter does it too. I get its fan service. Yes, you need to tell people that your character has a Compact H&K USP .45 with Holosun 507c sight and Speer hollow points but really only once. Nobody says in extremis I drew my Compact H&K USP .45 with Holosun 507c sight and Speer hollow points to confront the bad guy. You would just say I drew my pistol.

Posted by: blaster at January 12, 2025 09:32 AM (QfvaV)

82 Buck rogers

Posted by: Miguel cervantes at January 12, 2025 09:32 AM (dJR17)

83 It's my understanding Bernard Cornwell writing the Sharpe series went up and down filling in books between ones already written.

Posted by: Skip at January 12, 2025 09:33 AM (fwDg9)

84 I finished Watership Down this week. It is a great book. I loved how Adams' necessarily anthropomorphic rabbits are just humanized enough to tell the story while still being believable rabbits. That finished, I started "Escape from Shadow Physics" that was moron recommended. So far so good. The author is still rehashing early controversies about the nature of light and heat and hasn't gotten into why modern physics is 'shadowy' or what is the possible way out.

Posted by: who knew at January 12, 2025 09:33 AM (+ViXu)

85 While at the used-book store to trade in duplicate copies of books I bought as part of a lot that contained a few paperbacks that I wanted, I came across the prequel "A Stainless Steel Rat Is Born" by Harry Harrison.

Didn't buy it, holding to my resolution.

But I also found two Nero Wolfe reprints with the 1990s cover designs that I'm collecting and bought them; the resolution doesn't apply to replacements. (I also bought one additional NW. Now I'm trying to remember whether the resolution was for online purchases only.)

Posted by: Weak Geek at January 12, 2025 09:34 AM (p/isN)

86 Here's your mountaineering book for the week--High Exposure by David Breashears. I liked this a lot. He was just a kid climbing because he enjoyed the challenge. He worked it into a career of cinematography. He worked a bit on the movie Cliffhanger. In 1996, he coproduced the IMAX movie Everest. And 1996 was the climb written about Into Thin Air. The IMAX team went up the day before, but didn't summit. Breashears didn't like the weather conditions. The next day was when the storm hit. They were at a lower camp but allowed the stricken teams to use some of their oxygen. They were able to complete filming the next day. It's well written and a different take on moutaineering. The details on modifying the IMAX camera for the Everest trip were interesting too.

Posted by: Notsothoreau at January 12, 2025 09:34 AM (NQtI0)

87 Ditto on The Mercy Of Gods. Really interesting how the authors show the contrast in how different species respond to subjugation (one of them seems to just stand inertly facing a wall). And the darkly humorous scene where after one of the humans dies the subjugator needs a few moments to recall that disposal is required because humans don't consume their dead. Good story, looking forward to the next installment.

Posted by: cthoms at January 12, 2025 09:34 AM (GMJaz)

88
You're going to notice that the "fourth" movie (=the real Star Wars) gets everything wrong! Between the "prequel trilogy" and Rogue One, and then the later revelations, just about every single statement of fact made by any character in that film is false. It gets a lot of the "lore" wrong, and most of the characters are unlike their earlier or later appearances.

Posted by: Trimegistus at January 12, 2025 09:26 AM (78a2H)
---
Yes, this is absolutely true, which is why I wrote Man of Destiny because it bothered me so much.

The first three movies were a collaborative effort, and when Lucas returned to them, he very much wanted to remove those elements. His "Special Edition" films also wrecked continuity and flow, especially Han shooting second and the pointless reveal of Jabba, which also spoiled the reveal of the Millennium Falcon.

Also: he had no idea how to write a love story. None.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at January 12, 2025 09:34 AM (ZOv7s)

89 On the Kindle, I read Digital Heretic, the second book in The Game of Life series, by Terry Schott. While growing up, the young of Tygon play multiple times in a computer simulation game on a planet named Earth. Some have come to believe that they are players in a game and develop a religion around this idea. After Zack leaves the game, his girlfriend, Alexandria becomes the leader of the group; but sinister forces are hunting religion members to wipe them off the planet.

Posted by: Zoltan at January 12, 2025 09:35 AM (OAKaM)

90 Tolle Lege!!! Santa Ana French Toast mit Blue Berries... w/Bacon one layer of toast with Mikes Xtree Hot Honey applied...plenty of Coffee in the carafe till wash down the delicious fire!!!! finishing Book 1 Hell Divers...

Posted by: qmark at January 12, 2025 09:35 AM (+t9Oi)

91 As opposed to marshall bradley or patton

Posted by: Miguel cervantes at January 12, 2025 09:35 AM (dJR17)

92 Patrick Webb @RealPatrickWebb 1h
BREAKING: Burglary reported at Brentwood home of Vice President Kamala Harris.

Catturd ™ @catturd2 1h
Burglars stole 1,567 bottles of vodka at a value of $63,890

Posted by: andycanuck (iMpf5) at January 12, 2025 09:36 AM (iMpf5)

93 13 I honestly thought I would be done with the Luke Cage reprints by now. I'll blame a kidney stone that threw me out of whack for most of the week. Then I'll complain about dull overscripting.

But I wonder how I was able to go through 20 comics in one night during my single days.
Posted by: Weak Geek at January 12, 2025 09:07 AM (p/isN)

I can re-read comics for hours. But when reading them for the first time...I can only go a few issues per sitting. After that, I start feeling like I overdid it. Not sure if that has to do with the format/pacing, or just me subconsciously knowing that I should be savoring the experience instead of binging it..

Posted by: Castle Guy at January 12, 2025 09:36 AM (Lhaco)

94 Currently reading A Hobbit, a Wardrobe, and a Great War: How J.R.R. Tolkien and C.S. Lewis Rediscovered Faith, Friendship, and Heroism in the Cataclysm of 1914-1918 by Joseph Loconte.

Slow start so far.

Posted by: NaCly Dog at January 12, 2025 09:36 AM (u82oZ)

95 Good morning fellow Book Threadists. I hope everyone had a great week of reading. Mine was a bit different.

Posted by: JTB at January 12, 2025 09:36 AM (yTvNw)

96 re: Eisenhower

I was impressed by Freeman's Lee's Lieutenants (recommended, but ... it's 3 volumes) as an analysis of command. I always wanted to see a similar analysis of Eisenhower in WW2.

this week I read Greco by C. G. Cooper. It's got some plot holes in it and is, IMHO, somewhat unrealistic, but I liked it anyway, even if the beginning was a bit off-putting.

Posted by: yara at January 12, 2025 09:37 AM (fUPOV)

97 The building wouldn't look so bad, if the supports were made to look like hands holding up a book.

Posted by: OrangeEnt at January 12, 2025 09:37 AM (0eaVi)

98 The Geisel Library is only slightly more monstrous than the main library at the University of Toronto: The Robarts Library, named after a former Premier of Ontario. When I was a student there, we used to call it Fort Book.

Ursula Le Guin wrote an interesting novel called The Dispossessed that includes a prequel interleaved within the book. Alternating chapters tell two halves of the story, with one branch going forward in time from the beginning and the other going from the middle. At the end of the book, the two end and you get a different perspective of the ending of the early branch seeing what happens in the later branch. It's something like Back to the Future II where you see scenes from the first movie interspersed in the story, and you know how they turn out while still trying to follow the second movie. It's a challenging read, but worth the effort.

Posted by: MichiCanuck at January 12, 2025 09:38 AM (BvH8P)

99 It's my understanding Bernard Cornwell writing the Sharpe series went up and down filling in books between ones already written.
Posted by: Skip at January 12, 2025 09:33 AM (fwDg9)
---
I think there's a difference between doing a set series and then going backwards and doing a proper prequel rather than writing what are essentially vignettes about a character told as isolated episodes.

The Conan stories jump back and forth in time, exactly as if they were being recounted around a camp fire. I think that can work, especially if it's against a historical timeline.

"Here's what I did in 1805. Oh, my first post? Let me tell you about that."

It's not a big reveal to find out who wins at Waterloo.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at January 12, 2025 09:38 AM (ZOv7s)

100 Obi wan did lie sbout some things luke and leia had impressions the jedis dont look that impressive to have lasted 1000 generations

Posted by: Miguel cervantes at January 12, 2025 09:38 AM (dJR17)

101 But I also dropped "Day by Day" at the start of the Obama administration, and I'm not sure why.
Posted by: Weak Geek at January 12, 2025 09:12 AM (p/isN)

We evolve politically, at our own pace. We might leap over some people we used to read voraciously.
Ace said "Snatch the pebble from my hand, young grasshopper", and after two years of trying, I snatched a swirly shooter that went missing from my collection.

Posted by: BourbonChicken at January 12, 2025 09:40 AM (lhenN)

102 yara

Already done.

Eisenhower's Lieutenants: The Campaigns of France and Germany, 1944-45 by Russell F. Weigley

Posted by: NaCly Dog at January 12, 2025 09:40 AM (u82oZ)

103 Burglars stole 1,567 bottles of vodka at a value of $63,890

Posted by: andycanuck (iMpf5) at January 12, 2025 09:36 AM (iMpf5)
-

Vintage Trump Vodka collection.

Posted by: Biden's Dog sniffs a whole lotta malarkey, at January 12, 2025 09:41 AM (q8Zj0)

104 @102: Thanks, NaCly. I'll look it up.

Posted by: yara at January 12, 2025 09:42 AM (fUPOV)

105 54 I read Kurt Schlichter's The Attack this week. It's kind of eh. Maybe all the way into bad writing.
Made it repetitive and tedious.

Posted by: blaster at January 12, 2025 09:20 AM (QfvaV)

I started that one several months ago, but it did not capture my interest. At all. I moved on to other things.

Posted by: Dash my lace wigs! at January 12, 2025 09:42 AM (OX9vb)

106 have and reread both Hitchhiker's Guide and Restaurant at the end of the Universe.
I have always enjoyed his humor from when I was in England and listened and taped the radio play.
Wonder if I still have them.
Posted by: Skip at January 12, 2025 09:22 AM (fwDg9)

I like the humor but I can't honestly say I like the underlying philosophy of life being meaningless.

Posted by: Northernlurker , Maple Syrup MAGA at January 12, 2025 09:42 AM (kTd/k)

107 In 1939 Ike was a Lieutenant Colonel.

Something must have been pretty striking about him.

Posted by: blaster at January 12, 2025 09:42 AM (QfvaV)

108 Is it true that Eisenhower was a desk officer meaning that he never led troops in battle? Also, did he serve in WWI?

I really don't know much about him.

Posted by: dantesed at January 12, 2025 09:42 AM (Oy/m2)

109 I'm starting my annual reading of LOTR. Last week I mentioned that I hoped to read it straight through without breaks to read other materials. Probably won't happen. Since I know how the story will go (impossible to recapture that first time reading so long ago) I'll take my time and try to notice the many ways Tolkien wrote that make his writing so appealing. I'll look for rhythms, word choice and similar. I hope it won't distract from the pleasure of the story.

Posted by: JTB at January 12, 2025 09:43 AM (yTvNw)

110 In 1937 Ike was the football coach at Ft Benning

Posted by: blaster at January 12, 2025 09:44 AM (QfvaV)

111 I dunno, I think Geisel might have liked that library. It looks like something he might have drawn himself, perhaps with more fluffy branches sprouting out of it. Anyway, I thought he was on the lefties' cancel list these days because of his "racist" WWII cartoons.

Posted by: Oddbob at January 12, 2025 09:44 AM (/y8xj)

112 This grotesque monstrosity is the Geisel Library

Well you wouldn't catch me parking in that thing.
Somebody out there has a charmingly naive faith in the supportive strength of concrete with encased rod. Reckon they called it earthquake-proof? I wouldn't stand near it.

I've poured, shoveled and jackhammered concrete since childhood, stood on all the surviving patios of Frank Lloyd-wrong, been ta-yerp and trod the mystical Roman mix where it was subject to frost.

It makes a decent sidewalk, if you're short of bricks and have your own scarifier blade. What a racket.

Posted by: Way,Way Downriver at January 12, 2025 09:45 AM (zdLoL)

113 Miguel: No! They weren't lies when Alec Guinness delivered those lines. They were retroactively made into lies. Darth Vader wasn't Luke's father, either -- and when George Lucas says he totally intended that all along he's a damned liar.

Posted by: Trimegistus at January 12, 2025 09:45 AM (78a2H)

114 Ike:
"I get a really disagreeable impression of him. Credit for winning the war, absolutely; but that's about as far as I go."

I'm sitting right here.

Posted by: The Interstate Highway System at January 12, 2025 09:45 AM (dg+HA)

115 I read the Savior Generals, by V.D. Hanson. It's a competent book on the lives of Themistocles, Belisarius, Sherman, Ridgway, and Petraeus. As I said, it's competent, and I learned some things about those men, especially Ridgway, but it seemed like one of those books in which the author is trying to develop a thesis that's labored and arbitrary. It comes across as a series of brief biographical sketched more than anything else. TBH, that's usually what I get from VDH's columns. It's a recitation of snatches of broad learning, more than an insight.

Posted by: Archimedes at January 12, 2025 09:46 AM (xCA6C)

116 I have no objection to porn, but still ... too much time has passed, and going back into webcomics would cut into book reading time.

The exception remains "Girl Genius."

Posted by: Weak Geek at January 12, 2025 09:46 AM (p/isN)

117 The Geisel Library --

I dunno. I can put up with a ridiculous looking library building if there's a lot of good stuff on the shelves.

Posted by: Just Some Guy at January 12, 2025 09:46 AM (q3u5l)

118 The originals were more fantasy

Posted by: Miguel cervantes at January 12, 2025 09:46 AM (dJR17)

119 dantesed

True.

Until North Africa, which was his trail by fire. He was under immense stress. Did bad things for his health.

OTOH, he was a well placed observer, and well mentored. He gave goos advise, which was mostly ignored. (Esp. on the Bonus Army.)

He always said he learned Dramatics while serving under MacArthur.

Posted by: NaCly Dog at January 12, 2025 09:47 AM (u82oZ)

120 Good morning, Book Threaders! I'll confess to writing a prequel to the Adelsverein Trilogy - but it filled in the life stories of a character briefly mentioned, as well as a major one, and kept everything pretty much consistent.
On the reading front, I'm on the next to last book of Charlotte Mcleod's Sarah Kelling-Max Bittersohn mysteries. I'm wondering if I should move on to Diana Galbadon's Outlander series. Each one in standard paperback is the thickness of a brick, and OMG ... does she go into detail. Detail after detail for page after page after page. I know you're setting the scene, lady, and your characters are well loved, but sheesh ... did no one dare suggest edits after those first books became bestsellers?
(I did a mild parody of DG in my Luna City series.)

Posted by: Sgt. Mom at January 12, 2025 09:47 AM (Ew3fm)

121 The prequels tried to make the republic concrete

Posted by: Miguel cervantes at January 12, 2025 09:47 AM (dJR17)

122 Is it true that Eisenhower was a desk officer meaning that he never led troops in battle? Also, did he serve in WWI?

MacArthur called him the best clerk I ever had. Ike returned the compliment by saying he studied histrionics under Mac.

Posted by: Archimedes at January 12, 2025 09:47 AM (xCA6C)

123 In 1939 Ike was a Lieutenant Colonel.

Something must have been pretty striking about him.
Posted by: blaster at January 12, 2025 09:42 AM (QfvaV)
---
Wartime brings big changes. Jimmy Stewart was a rising star in Hollywood in 1939. In 1945 he was a full-bird colonel.

Promotion came quickly in those days.

BTW, at the higher level of command, having been a platoon leader under fire is far less important than being a good logistician. History is replete with excellent combat commanders whose supply trains liked like a ball of yarn after a cat found it.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at January 12, 2025 09:48 AM (ZOv7s)

124 That library is horrendous. And perhaps worse than its appearance is the huge construction cost to build an ungainly and inefficient building. What a waste of money!

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at January 12, 2025 09:49 AM (d9fT1)

125 The slopes of Everest are littered with corpses that were highly motivated people.

Posted by: Raoul Ortega at January 12, 2025 09:49 AM (C4d+l)

126 Geisel Library looks to be fireproof.

Posted by: Trying to find something positive at January 12, 2025 09:49 AM (vFG9F)

127 dantesed

Eisenhower was training a tank unit in PA during WWI. The war ended before he got to France

Posted by: NaCly Dog at January 12, 2025 09:49 AM (u82oZ)

128 The prequels tried to make the republic concrete
Posted by: Miguel cervantes at January 12, 2025 09:47 AM (dJR17)
---
They proved that Lucas knew even less about politics than he did romance.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at January 12, 2025 09:50 AM (ZOv7s)

129 "I get a really disagreeable impression of him. Credit for winning the war, absolutely; but that's about as far as I go."

I'm sitting right here.
Posted by: The Interstate Highway System

Ike was on a mission to see how long it took to move troops across the country in the twenties. It took weeks, and that never left his mind.

Posted by: Thomas Paine at January 12, 2025 09:50 AM (IsE+F)

130 Of course the notion that nixon was the emperor was daft

Posted by: Miguel cervantes at January 12, 2025 09:51 AM (dJR17)

131 Had to check, but looks like I didn't mention Northeaster by Cathie Pellietier. This is about a blizzard that hit Maine in 1952. I did an Audible book and managed to finish although I skipped ahead in spots. There were some interesting personal stories in there. The writing was the issue for me. She would build up a story to an exciting point, where you were really engaged, then talk about some bit of local history. She had introduced a cast of characters and you thought the six deaths would be among them. She introduced a new person towards the end that was the sixth.

The most dramatic was the sailor that waited too long to head for home after a date. The car slide off the road and was covered with ten feet of snow. They found him three days later, when they used poles to see if there was a car under the indentation in the snow. He grabbed the pole and they managed to dig him out. There's also a missing cat that survives after being snowed in under a car. I think this would have been easier to deal wih as a regular book, to skip past the points that felt like padding.

Posted by: Notsothoreau at January 12, 2025 09:51 AM (NQtI0)

132 I was just gifted the Douglas Adams “ Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy “. This is the one with 5 of his books in one volume. Anyone have any thoughts? Good or bad or just meh?
It seems interesting as I have skimmed a few pages. Thanks book horde.
Posted by: RetsgtRN at January 12, 2025 09:10 AM (u/qNw)

I really liked it when I was in high school, it is what YA fiction should be, clever, witty, stressful and full of bizarre crap that only a kid would take in stride.
Adams is a good writer, and a decent plotter, though he was a bit erratic, since he tended to do rewrites until his publisher sent someone by with a stick to beat the final MS out of him.
It is a novelization of a BBC radio program, with changes, and you can find the radio program on Archives.org. The radio program does not hold up as well in my opinion, though I adored it in the 80's

Posted by: Kindltot at January 12, 2025 09:51 AM (D7oie)

133 Most of the Horatio Hornblower series are prequels. They are well done.
Posted by: NaCly Dog
------

I have them all. Curiously, in the wake of folks lauding the Master and Commander movie, I refused to read any Patrick O'Brian out of a sense of literary loyalty to Forester.

Finally broke down and read the entire Master and Commander series...twice. Glad that I did, but I need to go back and re-read the Hornblower novels.

I've mentioned before, if you've read the M&C series, you might consider reading O'Brian's short stories, 'The Rendezvous and Other Stories'. They are very dark...

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at January 12, 2025 09:52 AM (XeU6L)

134 And then the sequels hold my corellian ale

Posted by: Miguel cervantes at January 12, 2025 09:52 AM (dJR17)

135 Tolle Lege: "Moving well along in Martin Gilbert's Churchill, a Life
I thought I knew lots about him but am surprised how much I didn't"
I had the same reaction when I read my first detailed biography of the man.

Posted by: who knew at January 12, 2025 09:52 AM (+ViXu)

136 BTW, at the higher level of command, having been a platoon leader under fire is far less important than being a good logistician. History is replete with excellent combat commanders whose supply trains liked like a ball of yarn after a cat found it.

McLellan, OTOH, was an excellent logistician, and probably a competent strategist/tactician, but could never overcome his unwillingness to take any risks - the reason for the failure of his Peninsular Campaign. You need to know your strengths and weaknesses. I, for example, would be Q, but certainly not 007.

Posted by: Archimedes at January 12, 2025 09:52 AM (xCA6C)

137 Stone Cross by Marc Cameron is another murder-crime mystery set in Alaska, this time in an outlying village. The Marshall's Service is tasked with protecting a federal judge during mediation in a small village. The written threat against the judge's life pales in comparison to the brutal murder and kidnapping that is taking place upriver. Can the Marshalls adequately protect the judge and go off to hunt the bad guys? With a winter storm blowing in and the river beginning to ice can the Marshalls arrive upriver in time to stop the killing? Great character development, a glimpse into life in the Alaskan wilderness, and a mystery with plenty of twists and turns. Recommended.

Posted by: Legally Sufficient at January 12, 2025 09:53 AM (rxCpr)

138 Break into the Harris's home and can only find vodka worth taking? And your not getting a ton on vodka on scooters

Posted by: Skip at January 12, 2025 09:53 AM (fwDg9)

139 One great way to write a sequel is to answer some questions about the past that come up in the main line books that never get answered. Like some mystery about a certain key event or "how did that get there?" Or it could clear up assumptions made. Like everyone thinks this is what caused that, but it's actually explained in the prequel it's something completely different.

Posted by: Farquad at January 12, 2025 09:53 AM (CFMhl)

140 We need common sense Architectural review!!!

I admit it's not a place I would want to be in if there was a fire. But it would be an amazing torch looking thing.

Posted by: pawn, RIP Vic at January 12, 2025 09:53 AM (QB+5g)

141 Thomas Paine

By car. He had a tough time.

Train travel was the preferred way to transfer troops until the 1950s. Still is the preferred way to transfer equipment and vehicles. I see logistics trains going to and from Fort Riley (1st ID) often.

Posted by: NaCly Dog at January 12, 2025 09:54 AM (u82oZ)

142 Eisenhower was training a tank unit in PA during WWI. The war ended before he got to France

Posted by: NaCly Dog at January 12, 2025 09:49 AM (u82oZ)

I think he had orders for Europe!

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at January 12, 2025 09:54 AM (d9fT1)

143 Ace endorsed author, you can chalk up one more sale. Just picked up the kindle version of Coasties.

Posted by: who knew at January 12, 2025 09:55 AM (+ViXu)

144 McLellan, OTOH, was an excellent logistician, and probably a competent strategist/tactician, but could never overcome his unwillingness to take any risks - the reason for the failure of his Peninsular Campaign. You need to know your strengths and weaknesses. I, for example, would be Q, but certainly not 007.
Posted by: Archimedes
___________

You can blame little of that on what Pinkerton was telling him about Confederate numbers.

Posted by: Biff Pocoroba at January 12, 2025 09:55 AM (Dm8we)

145 Trailer Park meets Highway Overpass.

Posted by: Boss Moss at January 12, 2025 09:55 AM (YeGMU)

146
The Geisel library. Apparently I'm supposed to like it. From the inside, you can't really see that it looks like that. I always wondered if they have a problem with leaks.

Any attempt to render Dr. Suess's drawings into architecture will be regrettable.

Posted by: Semi-Literate Thug at January 12, 2025 09:55 AM (biznJ)

147 *This grotesque monstrosity is the Geisel Library*
Ok, since this is the book thread and we inevitably drift into movies and TV, I'll post this as it relates to the picture up above.
I went to see The Brutalist last night.
Surprisingly full theater, but it's not showing many places and it was Saturday night.
Yes, I would recommend it, but with a lot of caveats.
It's too long. 3-1/2 hours including a 15 minute intermission. It could have been much shorter.
Too much soap opera aspects to the plotlines.
A lot of fairly explicit sexual situations that felt gratuitous. Could have been done much more tastefully.
Music wasn't particularly well done.
But it was a compelling story that drew me in and held my attention. And it most certainly did involve architecture. Felt like something based on a real life person, but it isn't.

Posted by: Quarter Twenty at January 12, 2025 09:55 AM (dg+HA)

148 Ike was on a mission to see how long it took to move troops across the country in the twenties. It took weeks, and that never left his mind.
Posted by: Thomas Paine at January 12, 2025 09:50 AM (IsE+F)
---
This is like people saying Franco was a terrible commander because he didn't fight the war they thought he should have fought.

But he was amazing logistician, having cut his teeth leading troops in the desert where there are no margins for error. Eventually became the head of their war college, so he knew how to mentor leaders.

When the Rising happens and the initial drive on Madrid fails, he sets up officer and NCO academies, sets up repair facilities for small arms and captured tanks, develops a program to put POWs back into his armies, and as a result, the Spanish Civil War is one of the few conflicts where the underdog won without any notable setbacks.

There's a book about it...

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at January 12, 2025 09:56 AM (ZOv7s)

149 I browsed other reviews and one reviewer I think put his finger on the problem when he noted that this was the first novel by a screenwriter and it's structured like a tv series.

I don't think it's the structure per se, but it made me see that the lack of depth of characterization was probably something that actors fiesh out, and the gratuitous "drama" did feel like made for tv "oh noez" moments.

Made me think deeper about how writing for different mediums takes different skills and approaches.
Posted by: vmom deport deport deport at January 12, 2025 09:06 AM (dE3DB)

Someone once told me I wrote like a screen writer. Don't know if I still do, or not. Maybe I should try writing a story as a movie script and try selling that instead of publishing a book?

Posted by: OrangeEnt at January 12, 2025 09:56 AM (0eaVi)

150 Seuss. Not that it really matters.

Posted by: Semi-Literate Thug at January 12, 2025 09:57 AM (biznJ)

151 Prequels; I read the initial Trilogy of the "Horus Heresy" book (Horus Rising, False Gods, and Galaxy in Flames) after a long time away from the Warhammer 40k universe...It was fun seeing an event that had previous been only vaguely alluded to get fleshed out in detail.

Alas, because of my time away, and because of said vagueness, I allowed myself to hope while reading it. That was a mistake. When I got the events of Istavaan V (which admittedly, may have been in the fourth book, Flight of the Eisentein) my heart genuinely sank when the reinforcements arrived...

Posted by: Castle Guy at January 12, 2025 09:57 AM (Lhaco)

152 I'm re-reading all the Anthony Trollope novels I can download from Gutenberg. Currently on "The Way We Live Now." His dissolute young nobles are always trying to cover their debts via "bill-discounting," and I'm trying to figure out if that's the same thing as loan-sharking. Still not sure.

Posted by: Annalucia at January 12, 2025 09:58 AM (S6ArX)

153 Have a great week in books.

"Perfessor" Squirrel, thank you again.

Posted by: NaCly Dog at January 12, 2025 09:59 AM (u82oZ)

154 Motivation can only get you so far, when there's minimal oxygen in the air. But...you should read Left for Dead by Beck Weathers and Dead Lucky by Lincoln Hall. Beck's is the more amazing survival, but both survived overnight exposure. You can't predict which person's body will fail.

It is interesting that both had hallucinations that they were on a boat.

Posted by: Notsothoreau at January 12, 2025 09:59 AM (NQtI0)

155 Maybe at some point they'll tear the Geisel Library down and put up a new structure drawing on the work of M. C. Escher.

We don't really have to worry, though, until they base the interiors of the place on the drawings of H. R. Giger.

Posted by: Just Some Guy at January 12, 2025 10:00 AM (q3u5l)

156 HGttG is a pretty good read while you are young. Not sure it would work as you age.

Posted by: Boss Moss at January 12, 2025 10:00 AM (YeGMU)

157 You can blame little of that on what Pinkerton was telling him about Confederate numbers.
Posted by: Biff Pocoroba at January 12, 2025 09:55 AM (Dm8we)
---
Very little. The Pinkertons' estimates were absurd, completely incredible. Where did all those troops come from? How did they get to Virginia? Where were the arms to equip them from?

Other Union commanders knew this and repeatedly raised concerns, but McClellan was willing to take a safe failure than a risky victory. Which wasn't even that risky.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at January 12, 2025 10:01 AM (ZOv7s)

158 While I don't bother with books on modern politics and culture, my love of history remains strong. Just got a used copy of "Origins of the American Revolution" by John C. Miller. It was written in 1943 and is still in print. Miller makes extensive use of contemporary sources, especially British publications, but the tone isn't coldly academic. It is, however, a straightforward, adult level telling of economic, philosophical, and political circumstances on both sides of the Atlantic and how they led to 1776. No clutching of pearls by imposing current standards on earlier centuries, which is a relief. He is providing certifiable information, not virtue signalling. Miller brings in a lot of detail in a concise manner that adds depth to an understanding of the context leading to independence.

My used copy happens to be a first edition hardcover from 1943. Although it's obviously been read many times, the binding is still sound and the paper is crisp. A reminder of why I get well made hardcover editions of books I think are worth having and passing on.

Posted by: JTB at January 12, 2025 10:01 AM (yTvNw)

159 I'm breaking from the pack when I say that I like odd architecture such as that library. But I'll agree that I wouldn't put it in earthquake land.

Posted by: Weak Geek at January 12, 2025 10:01 AM (p/isN)

160 110 In 1937 Ike was the football coach at Ft Benning
Posted by: blaster

So you're saying I have a chance...

Posted by: Tim Walz at January 12, 2025 10:01 AM (JCZqz)

161 Good morning Hordemates.

Posted by: Diogenes at January 12, 2025 10:02 AM (W/lyH)

162 Oh youse guys might be interested-
Jon C Gabriel (@exjon) has a WWII novel out: Sink the Rising Sun

x.com/exjon/status/
1877930901759275345

Posted by: vmom deport deport deport at January 12, 2025 10:02 AM (gDlxJ)

163
Armchair generals think about strategy.
Real generals think about logistics.

Posted by: Old Pentagon Saying at January 12, 2025 10:03 AM (dg+HA)

164 Ace endorsed author, you can chalk up one more sale. Just picked up the kindle version of Coasties.
Posted by: who knew at January 12, 2025 09:55 AM (+ViXu)
---
Thank you!

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at January 12, 2025 10:03 AM (ZOv7s)

165 His dissolute young nobles are always trying to cover their debts via "bill-discounting," and I'm trying to figure out if that's the same thing as loan-sharking. Still not sure.
Posted by: Annalucia

It is sort of the opposite. Someone buys the right to collect the debt at a discount instead of loaning the money with interest.

Posted by: Thomas Paine at January 12, 2025 10:03 AM (IsE+F)

166 This week I did something which I haven't done since, maybe high school:

I bought a book based on it's title-

"Vera Wong's Unsolicited Advice for Murderers".

It was on sale for the Kindle. I loved the clever title, and read a sample I liked, so I bought the book.

It's a light as gossamer mystery concerning an elderly Chinese Mom, who makes Jewish Mothers look like laissez-faire gadabouts when it comes to their children. She runs a dilapidated tea house in Chinatown and one morning finds a dead man inside.

Fun, light, some good laughs and totally ready for a movie or streaming series. I'll be very surprised if this one isn't on the screen in some form.

Check it out.

Posted by: naturalfake at January 12, 2025 10:03 AM (iJfKG)

167 Morning, book folken,

I've reread Richard Stark's The Hunter, the first of the hardboiled "Parker the pro thief" series. John Boorman directed the film of it, Point Blank, w/ Lee Marvin as Parker (though renamed). To this day I still picture him as Parker. Good stuff. I'm currently on the sixth in the series, The Seventh.

Earlier I finished one of Donald Westlake's Dortmunder crime capers, the last one, I think, Get Real. Dortmunder and his crew are recruited to be on a TV reality show, and things get strange and twisty as usual.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at January 12, 2025 10:04 AM (omVj0)

168 It is sort of the opposite. Someone buys the right to collect the debt at a discount instead of loaning the money with interest.
Posted by: Thomas Paine

And then send Moose and Rocco to help them find their wallet.

Posted by: Biff Pocoroba at January 12, 2025 10:05 AM (Dm8we)

169 With Gilbert and Churchill out of the way, I'll be digging into Graham Greene next. Been looking forward to this.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at January 12, 2025 10:05 AM (ZOv7s)

170 I'd rather another Dr. Thorndyke.
Posted by: weft cut-loop at January 12, 2025 09:11 AM (IG4Id)

You may kill Thorndyke.

Posted by: Nurse should be saying this at January 12, 2025 10:05 AM (0eaVi)

171 Thanks everyone for your input on Hitchhiker's Guide. I put it in my reading rotation so hopefully I will get to it by the end of the week. Thanks again.

Posted by: RetsgtRN at January 12, 2025 10:06 AM (vfgPa)

172 39 "This grotesque monstrosity is the Geisel Library at the University of California-San Diego"

Looks like a parking garage.
Posted by: Tuna at January 12, 2025 09:13 AM (oaGWv)
-

It looks fireproof.

Posted by: Biden's Dog sniffs a whole lotta malarkey, at January 12, 2025 09:15 AM (q8Zj0)

It should be on the beach. Would stand up well to tidal waves. Plus, a perfect spot for a machine gunner nest for when the invaders try to storm the beach ala Normandy.

Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at January 12, 2025 10:06 AM (klJTj)

173 I think the library building is kind of futuristic and cool. But I am a member of the Moron Horde so what do you expect.

Posted by: WarEagle82 at January 12, 2025 10:07 AM (YcfMX)

174 Breashears helped get Beck down off the mountain. Beck had surgery on his eyes to correct his vision but it left him blinded at altitude. He was left for dead twice, yet managed to walk to camp and walk down with help, despite terrible frostbite injuries. When Breashears gets to him, Beck is cracking a joke. He wants them to sing Chain of Fools on the way down. It's an amazing story. Beck's book is about what an arrogant ass he was to his family and his recovery afterwards.

Posted by: Notsothoreau at January 12, 2025 10:07 AM (NQtI0)

175 It should be on the beach. Would stand up well to tidal waves. Plus, a perfect spot for a machine gunner nest for when the invaders try to storm the beach ala Normandy.
Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at January 12, 2025 10:06 AM (klJTj)
---
Charleton Heston shaking his fist at it.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at January 12, 2025 10:07 AM (ZOv7s)

176 "No clutching of pearls by imposing current standards on earlier centuries, which is a relief. "

History books older than I am tend to be untainted by revisionism.
I have a book on WW1 dated 1919 and it tells it like it was.

Posted by: fd at January 12, 2025 10:07 AM (vFG9F)

177 I'm halfway through Jack Vance Star King. Film noir vibes. I'm not really loving it though.
Posted by: BourbonChicken at January 12, 2025 09:14 AM (lhenN)

>>>>>>>

I'm a huge Vance fan and I think that is the weakest of the series, fwiw.

I'm listening to the audiobook of the first Planet of Adventure book (Chasch). I know the book and it is still great.

But, Vance has his own style, a Lit Crit type would use the technical term "naive", I think. And, there's a lot going on in the background of his books that kind of coheres over time.

Vance was a jazz musician (kinda) and he writes like that, to me. A cool jazz and not bop musician: calm relaxed expertise.

There's very little discord in his works, to me. Even when he deals with horrible death or torture he kind of glides by (while depicting it vividly).

And obv, there's no post-modern "ironic" stuff, Vance is just a dude writing cool stories and evoking moods and vibes like a smooth jazz musician.

There's depth there, as well. The antagonists of each book are archetypal....

Posted by: Thesolorus at January 12, 2025 10:08 AM (z6Ybz)

178 bbc tapes of the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy

archive.org/details/hitchhikers-guide-to-the-galaxy-bbcr4

Posted by: Kindltot at January 12, 2025 10:08 AM (D7oie)

179 I didn't read as much as usual this week but the time was spent about books. Malcolm Guite is featured speaker in a number of YT videos and quite a few interviews. The subjects cn range from religion to MacDonald/Tolkien/Lewis to the insights of the Romantic poets (especially Coleridge) to his own poetry to his upcoming Arthuriad epic poem. Whether it is his own channel or as a guest on another, his insights are profound and his humor and enthusiasm is contagious.

I now keep a small pad handy when watching these videos to note things mentioned I will want to explore later. So many rabbit holes, so little time. SIGH!

Posted by: JTB at January 12, 2025 10:10 AM (yTvNw)

180 @167 --

I've found the 1950s "Dragnet" on Tubi. One of the first episodes has a young Lee Marvin. It was odd to see him with black hair.

Posted by: Weak Geek at January 12, 2025 10:10 AM (p/isN)

181 178 Thanks for the link.

Posted by: Boss Moss at January 12, 2025 10:10 AM (YeGMU)

182 Prequels . . . Larry McMurtry's Dead Man's Walk and Comanche Moon are prequels to Lonesome Dove, and are fascinating to see how Gus and Woodrow became Rangers back before the Civil War, met many of the characters from LD, and learned how to stay alive in the world of the Comanche.

As for myself, I've writing prequel short stories about the bombastic but brilliant wizard who features in a fantasy novel of mine from some years ago. We meet the wizard in the novel when he is about fifty years of age; but he has been a magician since he was a young man. We get to see him solve mysteries about magic, learn about the intricacies of new and old spells -- and we get to see his wives. In the novel I establish that he's been married and divorced six times, and most of his wives still like or even love him -- a neat trick.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at January 12, 2025 10:10 AM (omVj0)

183 History books older than I am tend to be untainted by revisionism.
I have a book on WW1 dated 1919 and it tells it like it was.
Posted by: fd
___________

I dunno, especially with WW1. The history on that has gone back and forth over the years through several waves of revisionism and counter-revisionism.

Posted by: Biff Pocoroba at January 12, 2025 10:11 AM (Dm8we)

184 Hitchhiker's Guide is required reading for Morons. How else will you learn about Vogon poetry, or the answer to life, the universe, and everything?

Marvin is my favorite character. Truly epic.

Posted by: fd at January 12, 2025 10:11 AM (vFG9F)

185 >>I'm breaking from the pack when I say that I like odd architecture

Then you'll love the Eli & Edythe Broad Art Museum on the campus of Michigan State University.

Yeesh!

Posted by: one hour sober at January 12, 2025 10:12 AM (Y1sOo)

186 I've found the 1950s "Dragnet" on Tubi. One of the first episodes has a young Lee Marvin. It was odd to see him with black hair.
Posted by: Weak Geek at January 12, 2025

***
LM starred in a half-hour crime series called M Squad in the late Fifties and early Sixties. I've read that creators of [i[Police Squad, the Airplane!-like spoof series with Leslie Nielsen, modeled a lot of that show's first episode on one from M Squad, even copying the shots in some cases. Airplane!, if you recall, was closely modeled on a Dana Andrews film called Zero Hour, so they were sticking with a technique that worked for them.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at January 12, 2025 10:14 AM (omVj0)

187 "The history on that has gone back and forth over the years through several waves of revisionism and counter-revisionism.
Posted by: Biff Pocoroba "

Yes, that is true. You have to sift thru to find something close to the truth. Going back to contemporary accounts helps with that.

Posted by: fd at January 12, 2025 10:14 AM (vFG9F)

188 Good morning Perfessor, Horde

Problematic prequels? Well, the Articles of Confederation sure don't line up with its blockbuster sequel.

Posted by: callsign claymore at January 12, 2025 10:14 AM (0WKFt)

189 That library looks like a Bond villain's not so secret lair.

One MLRS and bye bye.

Posted by: Anna Puma at January 12, 2025 10:15 AM (MBS2I)

190 Thanks, naturalfake, for the rec for "Vera Wong's Unsolicited Advice for Murderers." It sounds right up my alley.

Posted by: Art Rondelet of Malmsey at January 12, 2025 10:15 AM (FEVMW)

191 Charleton Heston shaking his fist at it.
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at January 12, 2025 10:07 AM (ZOv7s)

SOYLENT GREEN IS PEOPLE

Posted by: rhennigantx at January 12, 2025 10:16 AM (gbOdA)

192 I'm re-reading all the Anthony Trollope novels I can download from Gutenberg. Currently on "The Way We Live Now." His dissolute young nobles are always trying to cover their debts via "bill-discounting," and I'm trying to figure out if that's the same thing as loan-sharking. Still not sure.
Posted by: Annalucia
-----

I have and have read all of Trollope's novels. There is a family tie. My g-g-g-grandfather was involved in a vote-buying scheme to defeat Trollope when he was running for a seat in the House of Commons. Trollope lost.

In subsequent Parliamentary hearings, my ancient was called and questioned.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at January 12, 2025 10:16 AM (XeU6L)

193 The Geisel library. Apparently I'm supposed to like it. From the inside, you can't really see that it looks like that. I always wondered if they have a problem with leaks.

Any attempt to render Dr. Suess's drawings into architecture will be regrettable.
Posted by: Semi-Literate Thug at January 12, 2025 09:55 AM (biznJ)

I guarantee it leaks.

I guess it's supposed to sorta look like a tree.

Posted by: BurtTC at January 12, 2025 10:17 AM (lH8E4)

194 In the novel I establish that he's been married and divorced six times, and most of his wives still like or even love him -- a neat trick.
Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at January 12, 2025 10:10 AM (omVj0)

>>>>

Really cool. This reminds me to mention another Gygax Appendix N book I really enjoyed: Bellair's The Face in The Frost.

Never heard of it before reading and can't even say I even understand the ending....

But, it was really fun and a great vision of magic users.

I found it really cool and enjoyable.

It's not a totally unique approach to magic. But, it is quite different than most.

Posted by: Thesolorus at January 12, 2025 10:18 AM (z6Ybz)

195 Good morning, Book Threadians, even those of you sans pantaloons or wearing leopard-print onesies.

Here's some wisdom from Gavin Newsom to enlighten our day (and every day!):

"We're all in this together. We're all better off when we're all better off."

Posted by: Duncanthrax at January 12, 2025 10:18 AM (a3Q+t)

196 LBJ makes Bill Clinton look like Marcus Aurelius. I'm sure he's in hell showing his new presidential cellmate around the place.

Watergate was revenge for the humiliation of a 49-1 landslide.

Posted by: BourbonChicken at January 12, 2025 10:19 AM (lhenN)

197 I find Brutalism very pleasing when it is surrounded by heavy foliage and greenery.

Posted by: Thesolorus at January 12, 2025 10:19 AM (z6Ybz)

198 "Mercy of the Gods" is pretty good. Looming forward to a long series by those two chaps.

Currently reading "The War of the World," by the excellent Niall Ferguson. It's about why the 20th Century was so uniquely violent and why the democracies didn't prevent it. Almost done with it and then I'll move on to "God's Battalions, The Csse for the Crusades," by Rodney Stark. Stark is unapologetic in his support for Christendom.

Oh, and today, much football, and the final episode of the first season of Landman, which is a series I'm very much enjoying.

Posted by: Sharkman at January 12, 2025 10:19 AM (/RHNq)

199 Yes, that is true. You have to sift thru to find something close to the truth. Going back to contemporary accounts helps with that.
Posted by: fd
________

I'm going to take a shot and guess your 1919 book is Now It Can Be Told by Phillip Gibbs.

Posted by: Biff Pocoroba at January 12, 2025 10:19 AM (Dm8we)

200 Good morning, hoard and perfessor. I usually just.lurk the excellent book thread, but I thought I'd chime in this week. I just started Chuck Palahniuk's latest novel, Shock Induction. This writer of Fight Club seems to have bee in a bit of a slump. So far so good. Have a great week everybody.

Posted by: Frasier Crane at January 12, 2025 10:19 AM (ZELBG)

201 History books older than I am tend to be untainted by revisionism.
I have a book on WW1 dated 1919 and it tells it like it was.
Posted by: fd
___________

I dunno, especially with WW1. The history on that has gone back and forth over the years through several waves of revisionism and counter-revisionism.
Posted by: Biff Pocoroba at January 12, 2025 10:11 AM (Dm8we)

Well, there was that little thing that happened from '39-
45 that would change the context of the little war they had in the teens.

Revision is not only acceptable, it's necessary.

Posted by: BurtTC at January 12, 2025 10:20 AM (lH8E4)

202 Thank you, Perfessor, for yet another awesome book thread. And thank you Book People. I learn so much from all your comments.

I finished C.S. Lewis’s The Great Divorce. I then started Victoria Sweet’s God’s Hotel. Dr Sweet writes of her experiences working at Laguna Honda Hospital in San Francisco, which was the last almshouse in the country. It sounds like it was an exceptional place where the staff were allowed to care for and treat the patients without a lot of interference. Dr. Sweet was also working on a PhD in medical history and Hildegard von Bingen. I’m just getting to the point where the “Efficiency Experts” have come through with the place and are making recommendations.

I love history and medical stuff so am enjoying this book very much.

Posted by: KatieFloyd at January 12, 2025 10:20 AM (g50jl)

203 Then you'll love the Eli & Edythe Broad Art Museum on the campus of Michigan State University.

Yeesh!
Posted by: one hour sober at January 12, 2025 10:12 AM (Y1sOo)
---
It looks liked a crashed spaceship, which is actually kind of cool.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at January 12, 2025 10:20 AM (ZOv7s)

204 Good morning again dear morons and thanks Perfesser

You can see a lot of the San Diego landscape making it's way onto the pages of Dr. Seuss's books.

Posted by: San Franpsycho at January 12, 2025 10:21 AM (RIvkX)

205 Watergate was revenge for the humiliation of a 49-1 landslide.
Posted by: BourbonChicken at January 12, 2025 10:19 AM (lhenN)

It was a coup by what became the Bush Faction. After that, they got total domination of the GOP infrastructure. The GOP took out Nixon (pbuh).

Posted by: Thesolorus at January 12, 2025 10:22 AM (z6Ybz)

206 I've dipped into Melania Trump's memoir, called (as you might guess) Melania. It's not a long book, and so far she is mostly hitting the highlights of her girlhood, how she became a model, how she met DJT, etc. She tells us about her confidence about each stage of her life, but not much about how she felt about setbacks. (Believe it or not, she did get turned down for modeling jobs, even after she had a soldi portfolio and was well-known.)

I'm curious to see if she delves a little bit deeper into life as a First Lady and how she felt -- and how DJT reacted -- to the firestorm of criticism and resistance from the media and others they went through from '16 to '21, and maybe after.

Yes, there are some pics, both B & W and color, from her life and her modeling work.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at January 12, 2025 10:22 AM (omVj0)

207 Currently reading "The War of the World," by the excellent Niall Ferguson. It's about why the 20th Century was so uniquely violent and why the democracies didn't prevent it.
Posted by: Sharkman

Check out The Pity of War by Ferguson.

Posted by: Biff Pocoroba at January 12, 2025 10:22 AM (Dm8we)

208 To me, it looks like a giant single-wide being pushed over by a strong wind.

Posted by: one hour sober at January 12, 2025 10:22 AM (Y1sOo)

209 Hi.

I took a few days to read the Silo series by Hugh Howey. OMG those were crap. The TV show is much better, although that isn't saying much. Juliette turns out to be the archetypal Mary Sue Who Knows How To Do Everything And Is Always Right. Garbage.

So to get all of that out of my mind I am going to Asimov. Deciding to read everything in the Foundation series in chronological order. Finished Caves of Steel a few days ago and now half into The Naked Sun.

Posted by: WitchDoktor at January 12, 2025 10:23 AM (64qRd)

210 The roof probably would leak if it ever rained in SD.

Posted by: Trimegistus at January 12, 2025 10:24 AM (78a2H)

211 I am fond of the Geisel Library. Back when I attended UCSD, it was called the not-so Central University Library. Way on the east side of campus then, it is now more central than ever.

Posted by: no one of any consequence at January 12, 2025 10:24 AM (ZmEVT)

212 In the opening Credits of "Simon and Simon" the lead actors are shown looking out a window.

Posted by: no one of any consequence at January 12, 2025 10:25 AM (ZmEVT)

213 I am fond of the Geisel Library. Back when I attended UCSD, it was called the not-so Central University Library. Way on the east side of campus then, it is now more central than ever.
Posted by: no one of any consequence

I would have called it the Lorax Building.

Posted by: Thomas Paine at January 12, 2025 10:25 AM (6x71M)

214 "...looks like a crashed spaceship..."

The view in one of those pics reminds me a lot of the cover of a Signet paperback printing of Heinlein's The Puppet Masters (first sf paperback I bought).

Posted by: Just Some Guy at January 12, 2025 10:25 AM (q3u5l)

215 The first attempt to bring back Tarkin was a guy in ten pounds of mask makeup. Terrible. The second was CGI, also bad and overly animated. The best casting choice Lucas ever made was Ewan McGregor, as a prequel character.

Posted by: BourbonChicken at January 12, 2025 10:25 AM (lhenN)

216 Wolfus would not be in my reading usually, but for some reason think we just might see that boycotting Melania crack a little, then if a couple mags do it who knows?

Posted by: Skip at January 12, 2025 10:26 AM (fwDg9)

217 "I'm going to take a shot and guess your 1919 book is Now It Can Be Told by Phillip Gibbs.
Posted by: Biff Pocoroba

Nope. "The Pictorial History of the Great War".It's a collection of stories. There are many personal battlefield accounts and such.

Posted by: fd at January 12, 2025 10:26 AM (vFG9F)

218 Revision is not only acceptable, it's necessary.
Posted by: BurtTC at January 12, 2025 10:20 AM (lH8E4)
---
The passage of time also clarifies things in ways the contemporaries could not guess at.

To wit: breaking up Austria-Hungary was a terrible decision, and we are still living with the consequences of it. If you combine the Czechs, Slovaks, Austrians and Hungarians, you get a decent-sized state that can counterbalance both Germany and Russia.

These people remain on good terms, lived together for centuries and had a working confederation, but Woodrow Wilson didn't like it, no sir.

Going after Turkey in 1915 also looks better. With decent execution, it would have made a huge difference at a cost of a couple of days' fighting at the Somme or Passchendaele.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at January 12, 2025 10:26 AM (ZOv7s)

219 So to get all of that out of my mind I am going to Asimov. Deciding to read everything in the Foundation series in chronological order. Finished Caves of Steel a few days ago and now half into The Naked Sun.
Posted by: WitchDoktor at January 12, 2025

***
The story goes that John Campbell, editor of Astounding, stated that the mystery was incompatible with good science fiction. So one of his writers, Hal Clement, wrote and published an SF mystery. Which pleased Campbell no end, as he loved challenging his writers.

Randall Garrett did the same with magic, and both Asimov and Larry Niven have done even more with the blended genre.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at January 12, 2025 10:27 AM (omVj0)

220 I am amused that my offhand comment about the laconic nature of the ONT led to a full on Sparta/Athens argument.

Never change Morons.

Posted by: Grump928(C) at January 12, 2025 10:28 AM (aD39U)

221 Wolfus would not be in my reading usually, but for some reason think we just might see that boycotting Melania crack a little, then if a couple mags do it who knows?
Posted by: Skip at January 12, 2025

***
A year ago we'd have said that was impossible. But many of us also said Trump would never "be allowed" to win the Presidency again; and we've seen other supposedly stalwart anti-Trumpers start to come around. As you say, who knows?

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at January 12, 2025 10:29 AM (omVj0)

222 A friend and I were given a tour by the manager of a new student center. When I questioned the guy about what I thought were rather bizarre design features, he replied, 'It was the architect's 'statement'. My friend quipped, 'I'm glad he didn't say any more than he did'.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at January 12, 2025 10:29 AM (XeU6L)

223 Going after Turkey in 1915 also looks better. With decent execution, it would have made a huge difference at a cost of a couple of days' fighting at the Somme or Passchendaele.
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd

Did anyone do a Harry Turtledove reimagining of the Crusader States?

Posted by: weft cut-loop at January 12, 2025 10:30 AM (IG4Id)

224 The roof probably would leak if it ever rained in SD.
Posted by: Trimegistus at January 12, 2025 10:24 AM (78a2H)

I assume there are terlets on the upper floors. I bet the plumbers who worked on the building were not pleased with the architect.

Posted by: BurtTC at January 12, 2025 10:30 AM (lH8E4)

225 To wit: breaking up Austria-Hungary was a terrible decision, and we are still living with the consequences of it. If you combine the Czechs, Slovaks, Austrians and Hungarians, you get a decent-sized state that can counterbalance both Germany and Russia.

These people remain on good terms, lived together for centuries and had a working confederation, but Woodrow Wilson didn't like it, no sir.

Going after Turkey in 1915 also looks better. With decent execution, it would have made a huge difference at a cost of a couple of days' fighting at the Somme or Passchendaele.
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at January 12, 2025 10:26 AM (ZOv7s)

There was also the problem of letting the Brits dictate how the Middle East would work.

Spoiler alert: It didn't.

Posted by: BurtTC at January 12, 2025 10:32 AM (lH8E4)

226 I assume there are terlets on the upper floors. I bet the plumbers who worked on the building were not pleased with the architect.
Posted by: BurtTC
-------

Probably pre-PVC, so, not much fun.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at January 12, 2025 10:32 AM (XeU6L)

227 A year ago we'd have said that was impossible. But many of us also said Trump would never "be allowed" to win the Presidency again; and we've seen other supposedly stalwart anti-Trumpers start to come around. As you say, who knows?
Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at January 12, 2025 10:29 AM (omVj0)
---
Two years ago I predicted that if Trump took a five-point lead in the polls, he would be assassinated. Go look at where the polling was.

What I didn't count on - most of us didn't, either - is that God has the final word.

Tying this into books, that's what a lot of sci-fi and speculative fiction skips, because the writers are likely irreligious or even atheists. But it is the hinge upon which great events turn (to quote Churchill).

Churchill's depressive episodes are well-chronicled in Gilbert, by the way, and while not a church-going man, he did believe God was guiding events for the better.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at January 12, 2025 10:32 AM (ZOv7s)

228 The University of Arizona's LOL School building is the dumbest lamest brutalist building I have ever seen. It isn't even malevolent. It's just dumb.

Posted by: Thesolorus at January 12, 2025 10:32 AM (z6Ybz)

229 I just started Chuck Palahniuk's latest novel, Shock Induction. This writer of Fight Club seems to have bee in a bit of a slump. So far so good. Have a great week everybody.
Posted by: Frasier Crane at January 12, 2025 10:19 AM (ZELBG)

Oh, I picked that up at the library this week. I don't think I'm going to finish it, though. It's just a little too weird for my current mood. And it feels like he's trying too hard to be Smarter Than You.

I'll probably try it once more before I return it, though. Would be interested to see what you think of it when you finish.

Posted by: Dash my lace wigs! at January 12, 2025 10:33 AM (OX9vb)

230 There was also the problem of letting the Brits dictate how the Middle East would work.

Spoiler alert: It didn't.
Posted by: BurtTC at January 12, 2025 10:32 AM (lH8E4)
---
Churchill wanted Israel to join the Commonwealth.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at January 12, 2025 10:33 AM (ZOv7s)

231 Lord, please have mercy on the people in California.

Posted by: Eromero at January 12, 2025 10:33 AM (DXbAa)

232 These people remain on good terms, lived together for centuries and had a working confederation, but Woodrow Wilson didn't like it, no sir.

Going after Turkey in 1915 also looks better. With decent execution, it would have made a huge difference at a cost of a couple of days' fighting at the Somme or Passchendaele.
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd
___________

I'll definitely quibble with that on how the Hungarians treated minority populations, especially after the dual monarchy in 1867.

Posted by: Biff Pocoroba at January 12, 2025 10:34 AM (Dm8we)

233 Did anyone bring up the Pan Galactic Gargle Blaster yet?

Posted by: Boss Moss at January 12, 2025 10:34 AM (YeGMU)

234 You should read the CNN article on white nationalists today.

It uses "white nationalists," "Christian nationalists," "white Christians" and "Christian evangelicals" interchangeably.

Posted by: People's Hippo Voice at January 12, 2025 10:35 AM (kJM3W)

235 Archduke Franz Ferdinand was destined to be a reformer.

Fight me!

Posted by: Grump928(C) at January 12, 2025 10:35 AM (aD39U)

236 Related to books, trust me: Grit has Hombre[/i[ from 1967 on now. I've read the Elmore Leonard novel and enjoyed it enormously. Generally, for me, his Westerns have been much more appealing than a lot of his crime stories. Fifty-Two Pickup and Mr. Majestyk were both dynamite, but some of his later works just don't grab me by the lapels the same way. He reproduces the way criminals and scumbags talk so closely that it's sometimes hard to figure out what a character is saying until you read the context.

I first heard of him in Dean Koontz's How to Write a Best Seller in the '80s. In it Koontz also went on record as saying that he thinks Stephen King and John D. MacDonald will still be read in the 21st Century. I do need to try more of DK's stuff.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at January 12, 2025 10:36 AM (omVj0)

237 I do keep a towel in my truck

Posted by: Skip at January 12, 2025 10:36 AM (fwDg9)

238

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at January 12, 2025 10:36 AM (omVj0)

239 It uses "white nationalists," "Christian nationalists," "white Christians" and "Christian evangelicals" interchangeably.

Posted by: People's Hippo Voice
---

Do they ever speak of 'Pagan Globalists'?

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at January 12, 2025 10:36 AM (XeU6L)

240 The problem with Austro Hungary is the same one in Iraq and Syria and others. It requires a dictatorship to run, which is antithetical to the goal of self determination.

Posted by: Thomas Paine at January 12, 2025 10:37 AM (b5zCB)

241 A poor driver in Sarajevo killed 40 million people.

Posted by: Grump928(C) at January 12, 2025 10:37 AM (aD39U)

242 I have know where my towel is ever since reading.

Posted by: Boss Moss at January 12, 2025 10:37 AM (YeGMU)

243 I am re-reading " The Complete Fenelon" - letters of spiritual direction of reflections of fasts and feasts by the 17th century- to early 18th century Archbishop from France-/Francois Fenelon .My older copy was falling apart. Does anyone have beloved books that by the regular use lose their covers and the pages are all turned over so that you need to get another copy?

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at January 12, 2025 10:37 AM (VewCT)

244 The only reason I remember the year is that when we got home to Dallas, there were lines all around the movie theaters. When we asked why, we were told "Star Wars." We'd never heard of it, nor had most other people.

Posted by: Art Rondelet of Malmsey at January 12, 2025 09:03 AM (FEVMW)

Mr S. watched the baby, so I could go see it. Theater on the square, Denton, TX.

Posted by: sal at January 12, 2025 10:39 AM (f+FmA)

245 I'm not a believer, but Trump turning his head when he did does almost look like the hand of Providence.

Bismark said "a special Providence protects drunkards, small children, and the United States of America." It does seem to be true -- though lately the special Providence has been being pretty bloody-minded in how it's making all our rivals self-destruct.

Posted by: Trimegistus at January 12, 2025 10:39 AM (78a2H)

246 Does anyone have beloved books that by the regular use lose their covers and the pages are all turned over so that you need to get another copy?
Posted by: FenelonSpoke at January 12, 2025 10:37 AM (VewCT)

Do numerous random slips of paper with notes count? If so, yes.

Posted by: sal at January 12, 2025 10:40 AM (f+FmA)

247 The University of Arizona's LOL School building is the dumbest lamest brutalist building I have ever seen. It isn't even malevolent. It's just dumb.
Posted by: Thesolorus at January 12, 2025 10:32 AM (z6Ybz)

They have a Laugh Out Loud school?

Or Lots of Love?

Posted by: BurtTC at January 12, 2025 10:41 AM (lH8E4)

248 Does anyone have beloved books that by the regular use lose their covers and the pages are all turned over so that you need to get another copy?
Posted by: FenelonSpoke
_______

Yes. My original Modern Library version of Darkness at Noon, and Russel Kirk's The Conservative Mind. I now have three of both.

Posted by: Biff Pocoroba at January 12, 2025 10:41 AM (Dm8we)

249 I have them all. Curiously, in the wake of folks lauding the Master and Commander movie, I refused to read any Patrick O'Brian out of a sense of literary loyalty to Forester.

Finally broke down and read the entire Master and Commander series...twice. Glad that I did, but I need to go back and re-read the Hornblower novels [ . . . ]
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at January 12, 2025 09:52 AM (XeU6L)

I have read both, and fair amounts of the Lord Ramage series by Dudley Pope, and I have said before, though it sounds like a slur, it isn't: The three writers covered virtually the same events, but O'Brian loved poetry and language above all things, Pope loved sailing above all things, and Forester really liked writing for the Saturday Evening Post.

However, Forester was a very good craftsman and he wrote some really good work. Dad said that he used to wait for the next edition when it had a Forester serialization in it, and that is the best commendation you can get.

Posted by: Kindltot at January 12, 2025 10:41 AM (D7oie)

250 . . . Tying this into books, that's what a lot of sci-fi and speculative fiction skips, because the writers are likely irreligious or even atheists. But it is the hinge upon which great events turn (to quote Churchill).

Churchill's depressive episodes are well-chronicled in Gilbert, by the way, and while not a church-going man, he did believe God was guiding events for the better.
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at January 12, 2025

***
I've been careful in my own fantasy to make it clear that the religions (yes, plural) in my imagined world *do something for* the people who adhere to them. I don't think I've ever had some evil cult who worship a giant snake demon, or anything cliche like that. Though I guess you could say such a religion makes the believers feel better, in that they imagine the downtrodden among them will enjoy a ferocious revenge on their tormentors.

James Blish has this exchange between Kirk and Spock in spock Must Die: "Can a man be destroyed by nothing but a belief?" "It has happened many times, Captain, and doubtless will again."

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at January 12, 2025 10:42 AM (omVj0)

251 The problem with Austro Hungary is the same one in Iraq and Syria and others. It requires a dictatorship to run, which is antithetical to the goal of self determination.
Posted by: Thomas Paine at January 12, 2025 10:37 AM (b5zCB)

So is the Islamic faith.

Posted by: BurtTC at January 12, 2025 10:42 AM (lH8E4)

252 I am going to Asimov. Deciding to read everything in the Foundation series in chronological order. Finished Caves of Steel a few days ago and now half into The Naked Sun.

Posted by: WitchDoktor at January 12, 2025 10:23 AM (64qRd)

Asimov did a pretty good job at handling the prequel/sequel thing. The later written prequels let him introduce elements that he could return to in the sequels.

Larry Niven is another one that is fun to read in chronological order. His known space universe has a lot of room for telling stories that don't conflict with his earlier written works. The problem that he does get bitten by is when the actual science of today proves false the then accepted science that his earlier stuff relied on.

Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at January 12, 2025 10:43 AM (klJTj)

253 A poor driver in Sarajevo killed 40 million people.
Posted by: Grump928(C) at January 12, 2025 10:37 AM (aD39U)

Yeah, but it's sorta like these LA fires. Suppose it was an accident, and not an arsonist. Suppose someone thought they put out a cigarette, but they didn't, and it just happened to land on some dry leaves...

You could say one careless smoker caused those fires. Or you could say they laid the foundation for fires, by the idiocy of governments, playing with the lives of millions of people.

Something was going to light it eventually.

Posted by: BurtTC at January 12, 2025 10:45 AM (lH8E4)

254 I finished Watership Down this week. It is a great book. I loved how Adams' necessarily anthropomorphic rabbits are just humanized enough to tell the story while still being believable rabbits. . . .
Posted by: who knew at January 12, 2025

***
Yes; their lives are molded by the habits of real rabbits. Adams's brilliance was to give his rabbits an oral culture, a religion of a kind, and a folk hero like Robin Hood or Zorro, which shapes and informs their lives and gives them courage on their grand adventure.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at January 12, 2025 10:46 AM (omVj0)

255 If Franz Ferdinand had taken the throne and pursued his policy of turning the Dual Monarchy into a Triple Monarchy (bringing the Czechs in as equal partners), that might have set things up for the AH empire to reconfigure as a federal state -- maybe even with a Habsburg as token Head of State.

Posted by: Trimegistus at January 12, 2025 10:46 AM (78a2H)

256 Hitchhiker's Guide is required reading for Morons. How else will you learn about Vogon poetry, or the answer to life, the universe, and everything?

Marvin is my favorite character. Truly epic.
Posted by: fd at January 12, 2025 10:11 AM (vFG9F)

See. You can tell I've no interest in Hitchhiker.

I thought the Vogon poetry references were to Babylon 5. Don't care to read Tolkien, Lewis or others that seem to be favorites here. Looking at the books I have out, they're almost all non-fiction. And I'm trying to write fiction....

Posted by: OrangeEnt at January 12, 2025 10:46 AM (0eaVi)

257 “We don’t need NATO, we need TITO!”

(Makes crushing motion with thumb)

Posted by: Common Tater at January 12, 2025 10:46 AM (/FU0J)

258 "To wit: breaking up Austria-Hungary was a terrible decision, and we are still living with the consequences of it."

Sounds like the peacemakers were intent on winning the last war, not avoiding the next.

Posted by: Ignoramus at January 12, 2025 10:48 AM (Gqoy+)

259 This reminds me to mention another Gygax Appendix N book I really enjoyed: Bellair's The Face in The Frost.

Never heard of it before reading and can't even say I even understand the ending....

But, it was really fun and a great vision of magic users.

I found it really cool and enjoyable.

It's not a totally unique approach to magic. But, it is quite different than most.
Posted by: Thesolorus
----

I'm a big fan of "The Face in the Frost", which I first heard mention of in Lin Carter's book on fantasy world-building (he loved it). The Bellairs collection "Magic Mirrors" has another Prospero story, "The Dolphin Cross", based on an alas unfinished manuscript.

I love the little details about the wizard's "huge, ridiculous, doodad-covered, trash-filled two-story horror of a house", especially his book shelf: 500 Useful Pentacles, How to Seem Monstrous, A Salad of Summer Earthquake Recipes, Nameless Horrors and What to Do About Them, An Answer for Night Hags, and "of course", the dread Krankenhammer of Stephan Schimpf, the mad cobbler of Mainz.

Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes at January 12, 2025 10:49 AM (kpS4V)

260 Tito. The least talented member of the Jackson Five.

Posted by: Boss Moss at January 12, 2025 10:49 AM (YeGMU)

261 94 ... "Currently reading A Hobbit, a Wardrobe, and a Great War: How J.R.R. Tolkien and C.S. Lewis Rediscovered Faith, Friendship, and Heroism in the Cataclysm of 1914-1918 by Joseph Loconte.

Slow start so far."

I agree about the slow start but I did enjoy the book. It's a mixed bag for me. I liked learning more about Lewis and Tolkien and their reaction to the war and its consequences. But it solidified my disdain and disgust for the cluster fuck (especially British) way the war began, was run, and the follow-on degeneration of culture on both sides of the Atlantic. Arrogance, unjustified pride, and despair on a continental level almost destroyed the 20th century and still effects us today. The Inklings and a few others were bright lights in a dismal darkness.

Posted by: JTB at January 12, 2025 10:50 AM (yTvNw)

262 Currently reading a bio- "Caryll Houselander, Divine Eccentric" by Maisie Ward (1962).

It is very good, so good that I am reading it slowly to savor. Ward, of Sheed and Ward, a Catholic publishing
firm, was a friend of Houselander. She does an excellent job of interspersing her own observations with those of others who knew Caryll well. It is a very well-balanced picture- she was beloved by many but capable of driving her friends and co-workers to exasperation with her 'eccentricities'.

Ward includes a chapter on Houselander's extensive correspondence- which she later developed into its own book.
I regret that the digital age had probably done in the genre of collected letters.
"Collected Blog Posts" are not the same.

Posted by: sal at January 12, 2025 10:50 AM (f+FmA)

263 Last week we discussed an author I had heard of but had never read, Eric Ambler. So I chose one of his books, more or less at random, and read it. The Schirmer Inheritance is about a new attorney's search for an heir. It seems a sergeant from a German principality fighting for the Russians during the Napoleonic Wars is wounded and deserts eventually marrying and having children. Attempting to avoid discovery, he changes his name and the name of one of his sons but not the other. Fast forward to the post WWII years, there's a fortune to be distributed, and the name change rears its head. The attorney chases the possible heirs across a Europe still bleeding from WWII.
I enjoyed this book. It rather reminds me of Robert Ludlum novels although more realistic particularly regarding more realistic characters and, in my opinion, is generally better written.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Now Is the Winter of Our Discontent at January 12, 2025 10:50 AM (L/fGl)

264 If Franz Ferdinand had taken the throne and pursued his policy of turning the Dual Monarchy into a Triple Monarchy (bringing the Czechs in as equal partners), that might have set things up for the AH empire to reconfigure as a federal state -- maybe even with a Habsburg as token Head of State.
Posted by: Trimegistus
__________

The problem with that is that it would not address the threat from the terrorist state on their southern border.

Posted by: Biff Pocoroba at January 12, 2025 10:51 AM (Dm8we)

265 See. You can tell I've no interest in Hitchhiker.

I thought the Vogon poetry references were to Babylon 5. Don't care to read Tolkien, Lewis or others that seem to be favorites here. Looking at the books I have out, they're almost all non-fiction. And I'm trying to write fiction....
Posted by: OrangeEnt at January 12, 2025 10:46 AM (0eaVi)

I have zero interest in reading fiction these days.

Too much going on, and this whole question of revisionism, I'm of the belief that the history written for most of human history was designed to keep the powers that be in power.

There might be a risk in revisionism, but I'm in a "blow up the narrative, let's start over" mode. Even painstaking efforts by honest historians to write what they saw, my perspective today is "what did they miss. What's not getting said."

Posted by: BurtTC at January 12, 2025 10:51 AM (lH8E4)

266 Larry Niven is another one that is fun to read in chronological order. His known space universe has a lot of room for telling stories that don't conflict with his earlier written works. The problem that he does get bitten by is when the actual science of today proves false the then accepted science that his earlier stuff relied on.
Posted by: Anon Y. Mous at January 12, 2025

***
Every SF writer of "hard science" runs that risk. Niven's very first accepted story, "The Coldest Place," turns on the idea that Mercury does not rotate, ever. After it was accepted in late 1964 but before Fred Pohl could publish it, the news came out that Mercury does rotate. LN was new to the biz, so he actually asked Pohl if he should return the check. Pohl's view was that the story was based on the state of knowledge when he accepted the story, and not to worry about it.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at January 12, 2025 10:52 AM (omVj0)

267 They have a Laugh Out Loud school?

Or Lots of Love?
Posted by: BurtTC at January 12, 2025 10:41 AM (lH8E4)

James E Rogers College of LOL (Law).

Posted by: Thesolorus at January 12, 2025 10:52 AM (z6Ybz)

268 We don’t need NATO, we need TITO!”

(Makes crushing motion with thumb)
Posted by: Common Tater at January 12, 2025 10:46 AM

There *are* better vodkas out there.

Posted by: RedMindBlueState at January 12, 2025 10:52 AM (WVysH)

269 Randall Garrett did the same with magic, and both Asimov and Larry Niven have done even more with the blended genre.
Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at January 12, 2025 10:27 AM (omVj0)

Loved the Randall Garrett books. Kind of a Sherlockian motif, except Watson is a mage.

-SLV

Posted by: Shy Lurking Voter at January 12, 2025 10:52 AM (e/Osv)

270 Do they ever speak of 'Pagan Globalists'?
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at January 12, 2025 10:36 AM (XeU6L)
---
Pax Romana Redux!

TOGA TOGA TOGA!

Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes at January 12, 2025 10:52 AM (kpS4V)

271 Time to go! Thanks, Perfesser!

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at January 12, 2025 10:53 AM (ZOv7s)

272 I just finished the Hornblower series. I liked it but prefer the Master and Commander series. Hornblower focuses on the one character who turns out to be narrow. "Did you know he has a tin ear?'

M&C is Jane Austen for guys and has better plots and more action. The movie is borderline great and the sequels would have been even better, alas.

Posted by: Ignoramus at January 12, 2025 10:54 AM (Gqoy+)

273 I have read both, and fair amounts of the Lord Ramage series by Dudley Pope, and I have said before, though it sounds like a slur, it isn't: The three writers covered virtually the same events, but O'Brian loved poetry and language above all things, Pope loved sailing above all things, and Forester really liked writing for the Saturday Evening Post.
--------
Yes, I have read Pope's books also, and enjoyed them. I express here some disappoint that you did not say. 'I have read, by and large, fair amounts...'

;-)

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at January 12, 2025 10:54 AM (XeU6L)

274 Last week we discussed an author I had heard of but had never read, Eric Ambler. So I chose one of his books, more or less at random, and read it. The Schirmer Inheritance is about a new attorney's search for an heir. It seems a sergeant from a German principality fighting for the Russians during the Napoleonic Wars is wounded and deserts eventually marrying and having children. Attempting to avoid discovery, he changes his name and the name of one of his sons but not the other. Fast forward to the post WWII years, there's a fortune to be distributed, and the name change rears its head. The attorney chases the possible heirs across a Europe still bleeding from WWII.
I enjoyed this book. It rather reminds me of Robert Ludlum novels although more realistic particularly regarding more realistic characters and, in my opinion, is generally better written.
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Now Is the Winter of Our Discontent at January 12, 2025

***
I read that last year and had a lot of fun with it. Ambler's Journey Into Fear I read in high school and loved, even though it was not in the James Bond mold of spy story but about an engineer who becomes a target of spies.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at January 12, 2025 10:54 AM (omVj0)

275 Tito. The least talented member of the Jackson Five.
Posted by: Boss Moss at January 12, 2025 10:49 AM (YeGMU)

So then why did Jermaine and Marlon have him killed?

Jealousy, I'm sure.

Posted by: BurtTC at January 12, 2025 10:54 AM (lH8E4)

276 I am amused that my offhand comment about the laconic nature of the ONT led to a full on Sparta/Athens argument.

Never change Morons.
Posted by: Grump928(C) at January 12, 2025 10:28 AM (aD39U)

Well, there wasn't much content in last night's ONT. You had to fill it with something.

Posted by: OrangeEnt at January 12, 2025 10:55 AM (0eaVi)

277 I love the little details about the wizard's "huge, ridiculous, doodad-covered, trash-filled two-story horror of a house", especially his book shelf: 500 Useful Pentacles, How to Seem Monstrous, A Salad of Summer Earthquake Recipes, Nameless Horrors and What to Do About Them, An Answer for Night Hags, and "of course", the dread Krankenhammer of Stephan Schimpf, the mad cobbler of Mainz.
Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes at January 12, 2025 10:49 AM (kpS4V)

>>>>>

Great stuff. Can you explain what the heck was actually going on in the book? Hahahah.

Posted by: Thesolorus at January 12, 2025 10:56 AM (z6Ybz)

278 I don't comment here much, but I was thinking about Kurt Vonnegut last night.

How he's always pigeon-holed as a sci-fi writer.

I just don't think he is.

Posted by: eleven at January 12, 2025 10:56 AM (fV+MH)

279 It's a paradox: WWI was practically inevitable, and it didn't have to happen.

Germany's fears of "encirclement" were real, and France's worries about Germany surpassing her in men and GNP were real. But going to war wasn't going to solve any of them. A victorious Germany would have a ring of client states . . . and then a circle of even more hostile foes encircling her. Killing off a generation didn't do France's demographics and economy any favors.

If they had all just calmed the f**k down the Great Powers of Europe could have spent another half century in placid hegemony. But no . . .

Posted by: Trimegistus at January 12, 2025 10:56 AM (78a2H)

280 James E Rogers College of LOL (Law).
Posted by: Thesolorus at January 12, 2025 10:52 AM (z6Ybz)

Oh. So Laugh Out Loud then.

Posted by: BurtTC at January 12, 2025 10:56 AM (lH8E4)

281 Sparta whipped Athens, but lost so many Spartans that the Thebans whipped Sparta.

Posted by: Boss Moss at January 12, 2025 10:57 AM (YeGMU)

282 I love the little details about the wizard's "huge, ridiculous, doodad-covered, trash-filled two-story horror of a house", especially his book shelf: 500 Useful Pentacles, How to Seem Monstrous, A Salad of Summer Earthquake Recipes, Nameless Horrors and What to Do About Them, An Answer for Night Hags, and "of course", the dread Krankenhammer of Stephan Schimpf, the mad cobbler of Mainz.
Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes at January 12, 2025

***
The titles sound Harry Potter-esque. You have to wonder if J.K. Rowling read that as a girl. . . .

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at January 12, 2025 10:57 AM (omVj0)

283 Wolfus,

Koontz's How to Write Best Selling Fiction was where I first heard of Leonard too. First Leonard I picked up was City Primeval, and followed him for years and years. The characters in quite a few of his crime novels could have fit nicely into his westerns, and vice versa. Leonard hadn't hit big bestsellerdom yet when the Koontz book was published, but somebody in the bookbiz must have been paying attention, because it wasn't long after that when he got the push from his publishers.

I wouldn't argue against the idea that King and MacDonald will still be read in a hundred years. I once got odd looks from some of the faculty when I said as much in a library committee meeting.

Posted by: Just Some Guy at January 12, 2025 10:57 AM (q3u5l)

284 120 ... "I'll confess to writing a prequel to the Adelsverein Trilogy - but it filled in the life stories of a character briefly mentioned, as well as a major one, and kept everything pretty much consistent."

Sgt. Mom,
I have the Adelsverein trilogy but didn't know about a prequel. What's the title?

Posted by: JTB at January 12, 2025 10:57 AM (yTvNw)

285 I read everything Kurt Vonnegut published.

Posted by: Boss Moss at January 12, 2025 10:58 AM (YeGMU)

286 M&C is Jane Austen for guys and has better plots and more action. The movie is borderline great and the sequels would have been even better, alas.
Posted by: Ignoramus
-------

Necessary for filming, of course, but having seen the twin screws on the Surprise when she was out of the water, they cannot be unseen.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at January 12, 2025 10:58 AM (XeU6L)

287 If they had all just calmed the f**k down the Great Powers of Europe could have spent another half century in placid hegemony. But no . . .
Posted by: Trimegistus
__________

Don't forget that social darwinism was at its peak. It was going to be tough to tamp that down no matter what.

Posted by: Biff Pocoroba at January 12, 2025 10:59 AM (Dm8we)

288 >>James E Rogers College of LOL (Law).

The Applied Research building at UA is pretty weird-looking, as well.

Posted by: one hour sober at January 12, 2025 10:59 AM (Y1sOo)

289 Which prequels have YOU enjoyed or found problematic?

The only one that comes to mind is "New Spring," the prequel to The Wheel of Time series. It was originally novella length and it showed. Soooo much padding, mostly involving the White Tower, and not enough time showing how desperate Lan was when he met Moiraine.

Btw, if someone only read the White Tower parts of WoT, especially New Spring, and became a misogynist because of it... I'm not sure I'd blame them.

Posted by: pookysgirl, recalculating her shawl pattern at January 12, 2025 10:59 AM (dtlDP)

290 Loved the Randall Garrett books. Kind of a Sherlockian motif, except Watson is a mage.

-SLV
Posted by: Shy Lurking Voter at January 12, 2025

***
Garrett wrote one of the funniest SF stories in existence, "The Best Policy," in which a human captured by aliens and subjected to a "truth detector" machine (much more than a lie detector) has to tell *the exact truth* in order to save humanity from being conquered.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at January 12, 2025 10:59 AM (omVj0)

291 " I read everything Kurt Vonnegut published.
Posted by: Boss Moss "

I have read everything of his I could find.

Would you consider him a Sci- Fi writer?

I never felt that way.

Posted by: eleven at January 12, 2025 10:59 AM (fV+MH)

292 NEW YEAR'S BONUS!!!

I was cleaning out my office and found two promotional copies of "Wearing the Cat" that I'd forgotten I'd had, so or those of you without kindles who wish to read "Wearing the Cat"..Now's your chance!

A couple of caveats:
1) If you apply to read "WTC", please also be willing to write a review on Amazon.
2) This is a long novel. Roughly, 900+ pages. If you don't like long books, well, you know who you are.
3) This is a playful comic novel with both high and very low humor and a protagonist of the picaresque type. If you're easily offended, this may not be for you.

You might want to read the very generous sample on Amazon to see if "WTC" is for you:
https://www.amazon.com/Wearing-Cat-Complete-

Novel-Book-ebook/dp/B06XKQVKH8

Here are reviews of the two volumes of "WTC". The first is a bit off because the reviewer hadn't read the 2nd half of the novel. The second review is pretty much on target.
https://www.kirkusreviews.com/book-reviews/hd-

woodard/wearing-cat1/
https://www.kirkusreviews.com/book-reviews/hd-

woodard/wearing-cat/

Okay, to apply send your name and address to:
hdwoodard(dot)wearingthecat(at)gmail(dot)com
I will randomly pick the winners

Posted by: naturalfake at January 12, 2025 10:59 AM (iJfKG)

293 If they had all just calmed the f**k down the Great Powers of Europe could have spent another half century in placid hegemony. But no . . .
Posted by: Trimegistus at January 12, 2025 10:56 AM (78a2H)

If you have rulers in place who are thinking "We could win this thing," you have a problem.

Posted by: BurtTC at January 12, 2025 10:59 AM (lH8E4)

294 Yes. My original Modern Library version of Darkness at Noon, and Russel Kirk's The Conservative Mind. I now have three of both.
Posted by: Biff Pocoroba at January 12, 2025 10:41 AM (Dm8we)

Keep buying them!

Posted by: Bennett Cerf at January 12, 2025 11:00 AM (0eaVi)

295 Wasn't Tito Gigio Ed Sullivan's mouse?

Posted by: Old Pentagon Saying at January 12, 2025 11:02 AM (dg+HA)

296 WWI was the stupidest thing humans ever did.

Posted by: eleven at January 12, 2025 11:02 AM (fV+MH)

297 Tito. The least talented member of the Jackson Five.
Posted by: Boss Moss at January 12, 2025

***
There's a neat gag tucked away in the Spenser books by Robert Parker. The big-time Boston crime boss is named Joe Broz.

Marshal Tito's real name? Josip Broz.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at January 12, 2025 11:02 AM (omVj0)

298 The Applied Research building at UA is pretty weird-looking, as well.
Posted by: one hour sober at January 12, 2025 10:59 AM (Y1sOo)

Yeah, I pulled up pics of the campus, trying to figure out which building he was referring to, and all I can say is, they had quite the gaggle of architects who were licking mushrooms when they designed those buildings.

Posted by: BurtTC at January 12, 2025 11:02 AM (lH8E4)

299 Oops.
Sock fail

295 Wasn't Tito Gigio Ed Sullivan's mouse?

Posted by: Quarter Twenty at January 12, 2025 11:02 AM (dg+HA)

300 Recently acquired a copy of 'Until the Sea Shall Free Them', about the sinking of the Marine Electric. An interesting facet is, the book is marked 'Bound Galley, Not For Sale'.

Anyone else ever encounter that?

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at January 12, 2025 11:03 AM (XeU6L)

301 WWI was the stupidest thing humans ever did.
Posted by: eleven at January 12, 2025 11:02 AM (fV+MH)

Cousins arguing, with car sized warheads.

Posted by: BurtTC at January 12, 2025 11:03 AM (lH8E4)

302 There seemed to be an element of science fiction in many of his books. Cat'c Cradle was pulp fiction sized. The content was pretty amazing for it's size. He even had rapey dolphins in one. Was that Babylon?

Posted by: Boss Moss at January 12, 2025 11:03 AM (YeGMU)

303 We like rape.

Posted by: The dolphins at January 12, 2025 11:05 AM (dg+HA)

304 Galapagos perhaps

Posted by: Boss Moss at January 12, 2025 11:05 AM (YeGMU)

305 " I read everything Kurt Vonnegut published.
Posted by: Boss Moss "

I have read everything of his I could find.

Would you consider him a Sci- Fi writer?

I never felt that way.
Posted by: eleven at January 12, 2025 10:59 AM (fV+MH)

Well, I guess you could say that he doesn't exclusively write SF, but it's hard to deny that;

Harrison Bergeron
The Cat's Cradle
The Sirens of Titan
Slaughterhouse-5
Galapagos
Breakfast of Champions
Slapstick

are not Science Fiction.

Posted by: naturalfake at January 12, 2025 11:05 AM (iJfKG)

306 There seemed to be an element of science fiction in many of his books.
----

Aliens who communicate by tap dancing...

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at January 12, 2025 11:05 AM (XeU6L)

307 Does anyone have beloved books that by the regular use lose their covers and the pages are all turned over so that you need to get another copy?
Posted by: FenelonSpoke at January 12, 2025 10:37 AM (VewCT)

I have several books where the end-papers have torn and the covers are loose or completely separated from the block of paper. This sort of thing happens when I get so many slips into the pages the end papers tear, especially in older books where the paper is brittle.
One dodge (if the value is in reading the book and not the value of the book itself) is to get a partial roll of wallpaper from the local thrift store, cut a piece to fit over the old end-papers between the inside of the cover and the first page of the book, and then wet it and let it glue itself. Wallpaper, especially the new stuff that is washable, is much tougher than most paper you can get.

I have done this with acid-free paper as well, but I use wallpaper for my workbooks, it is easier to find and I don't have to deal with glue.
Um, I also use it for shelf papers in the pantry.

Posted by: Kindltot at January 12, 2025 11:05 AM (D7oie)

308 'grotesque monstrosity is the Geisel Library at the University of California-San Diego.'

This library and the whole UC San Diego campus play a huge role in a great Vernor Vinge sci-fi novel, Rainbows End. It is an internet-of-things, AR/VR near future novel where some company is digitizing all human knowledge, using shredders and computer vision. As I recall the library has been high-tech earthquake retrofitted, and at some point starts walking? Interesting future battle stuff as well.

If you like hard SF Vinge is great, he's a UCSD comp sci professor.

Posted by: Candidus at January 12, 2025 11:05 AM (YOYV1)

309 For those who haven't, I strongly recommend Max Hasting's "Churchill's War: 1940-1945" for some insight on US-UK relations during WWII.

Whatever Eisenhower's personal opinion of British War policy, he was a soldier who obeyed the orders issued by his superiors - George Marshall and FDR. Roosevelt cared very little for the future of the British Empire and Churchill's romantic notions for Anglo dominance in the Med and in India. The UK's Dodecanese campaign and the British-Commonwealth debacle that ensued (mainly the BA's performance) hardened US policy against any more diversions from the cross-Channel invasion objectives.

It wasn't "Ike's War", it was very much a Roosevelt project.

Posted by: mrp at January 12, 2025 11:05 AM (rj6Yv)

310 Ice Nine

Posted by: Boss Moss at January 12, 2025 11:06 AM (YeGMU)

311 I've got about a dozen bound-galley review copies of books, all marked "NOT FOR SALE." I bought at least half of them.

That's an item which I expect is going to disappear if it hasn't already. Review copies are now just PDFs rather than printed and bound. Maybe there are some reviewers old-fashioned enough and influential enough that publishers will run off a printed ARC for them, but they're dying out.

Posted by: Trimegistus at January 12, 2025 11:07 AM (78a2H)

312 Churchill was somewhat appalled by the American's ignorance of European history.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at January 12, 2025 11:07 AM (XeU6L)

313 I knew plenty of people who owned similar pants during my younger days in 1980s Los Angeles. Feel so old now ...

Posted by: Sassy Pants at January 12, 2025 11:07 AM (RMjVS)

314 Richard Adams readers might enjoy his "Maia".
Not quite sure how to describe it- it's not fantasy.
Let's call it "alternative civilization".
Set in a pagan kingdom, it is the story of a young woman who is sold into sex slavery by her foster mother and rises to national heroism.
Lavish 'civilization building', well but not deeply drawn characters, and a heroine who is not a Girl Boss.

Posted by: sal at January 12, 2025 11:08 AM (f+FmA)

315 Would you consider him a Sci- Fi writer?

I never felt that way.
Posted by: eleven
__________

Brought this up last week, but I just don't get the difference between sci-fi and fantasy. However, I say that as someone who reads neither.

Posted by: Biff Pocoroba at January 12, 2025 11:08 AM (Dm8we)

316 Yes, I have read Pope's books also, and enjoyed them. I express here some disappoint that you did not say. 'I have read, by and large, fair amounts...'
;-)
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at January 12, 2025 10:54 AM (XeU6L)

I am not that fond of sailing, I am afraid

Posted by: Kindltot at January 12, 2025 11:09 AM (D7oie)

317 The U.S. should have sat out both World Wars. Let the Frebch and British Empires crumble.

Posted by: Boss Moss at January 12, 2025 11:09 AM (YeGMU)

318 I have zero interest in reading fiction these days.

Posted by: BurtTC at January 12, 2025 10:51 AM (lH8E4)

Well... crap. That's one sale of all the others I'll never make!

Can you really trust historical works? Written by the victors, "we're virtuous, and all we did was moral and right." Written by the losers, "We were stabbed in the back by leaders/saboteurs/allies."

Posted by: OrangeEnt at January 12, 2025 11:09 AM (0eaVi)

319 "deny that;

Harrison Bergeron
The Cat's Cradle
The Sirens of Titan
Slaughterhouse-5
Galapagos
Breakfast of Champions
Slapstick

are not Science Fiction.
Posted by: naturalfake"

What I mean is...there are *elements* of sci fi in his stories...they are more about the human condition.

It just always seemed "off" to me to categorize Vonnegut as a Sci-Fi writer.

Posted by: eleven at January 12, 2025 11:10 AM (fV+MH)

320 Plenty of Vonnegut's work fit comfortably into the sf category, but if memory serves he escaped from the label as quickly as he could. Think he once said that too many critics kept mistaking the category for a urinal.

A book marketed specifically as sf wasn't likely to get a lot of sales outside the base audience, at least not at the time.

Posted by: Just Some Guy at January 12, 2025 11:11 AM (q3u5l)

321 I don't think categorizing Vonnegut as anything is that easy.

Posted by: Boss Moss at January 12, 2025 11:12 AM (YeGMU)

322 I thought Jordan did a good job on A New Spring, the Wheel of Time prequel. On the other hand, GRR Martin's prequels to the Song of Ice and Fire were, while mildly entertaining, little more than regurgitating the original material as historic short stories.

Posted by: cheztrainor at January 12, 2025 11:12 AM (uH9R9)

323 The U.S. should have sat out both World Wars. Let the Frebch and British Empires crumble.
Posted by: Boss Moss at January 12, 2025 11:09 AM (YeGMU)

Wouldn't have been a second if we sat out the first.

Posted by: Sassy Fred at January 12, 2025 11:12 AM (RMjVS)

324 Plenty of Vonnegut's work fit comfortably into the sf category, but if memory serves he escaped from the label as quickly as he could. Think he once said that too many critics kept mistaking the category for a urinal.

A book marketed specifically as sf wasn't likely to get a lot of sales outside the base audience, at least not at the time.
Posted by: Just Some Guy at January 12, 2025

***
In one of his essays on writing, Larry Niven said that SF was not a ghetto, but a country club.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at January 12, 2025 11:13 AM (omVj0)

325 Ok so...how "non-fiction" is "non-fiction".

I've read Inside the Third Reich by Albert Speer.

Was that "non-fiction"?

Posted by: eleven at January 12, 2025 11:13 AM (fV+MH)

326 If they had all just calmed the f**k down the Great Powers of Europe could have spent another half century in placid hegemony. But no . . .
Posted by: Trimegistus at January 12, 2025 10:56 AM (78a2H)

Russia had all of the AH mobilization plans due to the betrayal of Col Redl, and the Austo-Hungarian general staff hadn't time to either change them or formulate a change of the basic logic of any aggression or defense, so the Russians were pretty confident of their chances, and apparently had good cause for it.

Posted by: Kindltot at January 12, 2025 11:14 AM (D7oie)

327 Vonnegut used SF to explore themes unrelated to mainstream SF, often absurdist. Perfect for bright teenage boys and/or stoners.

Posted by: Ignoramus at January 12, 2025 11:14 AM (Gqoy+)

328 I also came across a book I enjoyed in a rather unusual way. I watched The Dain Curse on Prime which was a severally edited version of a '70s miniseries. I quite liked the look, the feel, the music, and even the plot, such as it was, but it obviously had edited out key plot points. So I read the Dashiell Hamett source novel to figure out what the hell was going on. Turns out they edited out four murders including the murder of a major character who just wasn't around any more. Also, two fairly important characters were never introduced and their murders were left on the cutting room floor. Anyway, I enjoyed the book which, get this, made sense.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Now Is the Winter of Our Discontent at January 12, 2025 11:15 AM (L/fGl)

329 Can you really trust historical works? Written by the victors, "we're virtuous, and all we did was moral and right." Written by the losers, "We were stabbed in the back by leaders/saboteurs/allies."
Posted by: OrangeEnt at January 12, 2025 11:09 AM (0eaVi)

We all take shortcuts, because there's just not enough time to absorb it all. So when it comes to war these days, I just start with the notion that nobody's telling the whole story. Everyone's got their bias.

Incidentally, I'm not sure I'll ever read another war book in my lifetime either.

Posted by: BurtTC at January 12, 2025 11:15 AM (lH8E4)

330 anybody here read the author CJ Box?

A friend recommended him to me. She says it's a western themed mystery series? What do you think of him?

Posted by: TecumsehTea at January 12, 2025 11:17 AM (Eo96p)

331 Russia had all of the AH mobilization plans due to the betrayal of Col Redl, and the Austo-Hungarian general staff hadn't time to either change them or formulate a change of the basic logic of any aggression or defense, so the Russians were pretty confident of their chances, and apparently had good cause for it.
Posted by: Kindltot
__________

They did have two plans, formulated largely after they knew about Redl.

Posted by: Biff Pocoroba at January 12, 2025 11:17 AM (Dm8we)

332 Written by the victors, "we're virtuous, and all we did was moral and right."
-------

I am an unbashedChurchill admirer, the 'Statesmen' of today are inept pygmies by contrast. Having said that:

"History will be kind to me for I intend to write it" -- Churchill

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at January 12, 2025 11:17 AM (XeU6L)

333 Wolfus,

Hadn't run across that Niven 'country club' line before. I do recall Barry Malzberg saying some years back that somebody trying to escape the label, as he had once advised, might now be better sticking to the category because a book published in category was at least almost guaranteed a certain level of sales.

Posted by: Just Some Guy at January 12, 2025 11:18 AM (q3u5l)

334 Well...I suppose I'm a bright teenage stoner then.

Posted by: eleven at January 12, 2025 11:18 AM (fV+MH)

335 My FWP is
Wait, wrong thread Sorry.

Posted by: From about That Time at January 12, 2025 11:19 AM (4780s)

336 Churchill was somewhat appalled by the American's ignorance of European history.
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at January 12, 2025 11:07 AM (XeU6L)

America was and is filled with people who personally experienced the consequences of European history and who had no desire to repeat the carnival of misery. I suspect that a large part of the North's determination to subdue the South during the ACW was a very real recognition of the consequences resulting from a nation fractured into several mutually hostile political societies.

Majority Rule requires the potent threat of force when violated.

Posted by: mrp at January 12, 2025 11:19 AM (rj6Yv)

337 Brought this up last week, but I just don't get the difference between sci-fi and fantasy. However, I say that as someone who reads neither.
Posted by: Biff Pocoroba at January 12, 2025 11:08 AM (Dm8we)

science fiction attempts to obey the laws of thermodynamics

Posted by: Kindltot at January 12, 2025 11:20 AM (D7oie)

338 I am an unbashedChurchill admirer, the 'Statesmen' of today are inept pygmies by contrast. Having said that:

"History will be kind to me for I intend to write it" -- Churchill
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at January 12, 2025 11:17 AM (XeU6L)

Churchill loved his country, and had seen too much, been in the middle of too much to give a shit about the rest of the world. He wanted Britain to survive, and he knew he was presiding over the dying of the empire.

They say he was depressed a lot. He should have been depressed a lot.

Posted by: BurtTC at January 12, 2025 11:21 AM (lH8E4)

339 I was just looking to buy Slaying the Dragon, A Secret History of D&D as of late I'm feeling nostalgic for some 80's lore.
Has anybody read it?
Those pants... Never trust a punk with money for manufactured punk attire. Especially if made in the 90's. That's hipster douchbag level shit there. I'd bet the original owner now looks like a lumberjack, is a cuck and is transing his kid.

Posted by: Reforger at January 12, 2025 11:21 AM (xcIvR)

340 Europe is comprised of 57 countries that are continually changing their borders and identities.

How is it our responsibility to keep up with that non-sense?

We escaped that shit.

Posted by: eleven at January 12, 2025 11:22 AM (fV+MH)

341 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUOGxePBs50

Animal House stoner scene

Posted by: Ignoramus at January 12, 2025 11:22 AM (Gqoy+)

342 What I mean is...there are *elements* of sci fi in his stories...they are more about the human condition.

It just always seemed "off" to me to categorize Vonnegut as a Sci-Fi writer.
Posted by: eleven at January 12, 2025 11:10 AM (fV+MH)

Eh, depends on who you read.

There plenty of SF authors who address the human condition.

SF isn't all "Zap Farsight and the Laser Boys Meet the Meatballs from Mars".

Posted by: naturalfake at January 12, 2025 11:22 AM (iJfKG)

343 243 ... "Does anyone have beloved books that by the regular use lose their covers and the pages are all turned over so that you need to get another copy?"

Fenelon,
Oh yeah! My copies of the Lensman and Skylark series fell apart from use. Same with the Fratzetta cover Conan books. They have all been replaced by hardcover compendiums of the series. My hardcover LOTR bought new in the mid-60s show all the years of constant use. They are treasured and preserved but I have two other one volume editions that I use know. I gave up on bothering with paperback editions of the trilogy. I do have LOTR on Kindle to dip into while in waiting rooms and such.

Posted by: JTB at January 12, 2025 11:23 AM (yTvNw)

344
How is it our responsibility to keep up with that non-sense?

We escaped that shit.
Posted by: eleven
-------

Not exactly.
See: WWI, WWII

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at January 12, 2025 11:23 AM (XeU6L)

345 Science fiction is fantasy with an explanation.

Posted by: eleven at January 12, 2025 11:23 AM (fV+MH)

346 Europe is comprised of 57 countries that are continually changing their borders and identities.

How is it our responsibility to keep up with that non-sense?

We escaped that shit.
Posted by: eleven at January 12, 2025 11:22 AM (fV+MH)

Now do the Middle East.

Posted by: BurtTC at January 12, 2025 11:23 AM (lH8E4)

347 Not exactly.
See: WWI, WWII
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at January 12, 2025 11:23 AM (XeU6L)

Which is kinda the point, innit?

Posted by: BurtTC at January 12, 2025 11:24 AM (lH8E4)

348 I tripped over a short history of Japan:
We are not China.

I hope this continues for the USA:
We are not Britain or Europe.

Posted by: Ignoramus at January 12, 2025 11:24 AM (Gqoy+)

349 Vonnegut used SF to explore themes unrelated to mainstream SF, often absurdist. Perfect for bright teenage boys and/or stoners.
Posted by: Ignoramus

I recently reread two of my favorites, Cat's Cradle and The Sirens of Titan, and did not enjoy them nearly as much as I had when I a bright teenage boy and/or stoner. All the stuff I liked was still there but the nihilism was just too much to take.
Incidentally, John Lennon's atheistic, nihilistic hymn Imagine was played at severe Christian Jimmy Carter's funeral. I wonder how they missed Dust In the Wind and The Circle of Life.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Now Is the Winter of Our Discontent at January 12, 2025 11:24 AM (L/fGl)

350 Science fiction is fantasy with an explanation.
Posted by: eleven
_______

Concise and helpful.

Posted by: Biff Pocoroba at January 12, 2025 11:26 AM (Dm8we)

351 Now do the Middle East.
Posted by: BurtTC at January 12, 2025 11:23 AM (lH8E4)

We did.

Posted by: Sykes Picot at January 12, 2025 11:26 AM (xcIvR)

352 I also came across a book I enjoyed in a rather unusual way. I watched The Dain Curse on Prime which was a severally edited version of a '70s miniseries. I quite liked the look, the feel, the music, and even the plot, such as it was, but it obviously had edited out key plot points. So I read the Dashiell Hamett source novel to figure out what the hell was going on. Turns out they edited out four murders including the murder of a major character who just wasn't around any more. Also, two fairly important characters were never introduced and their murders were left on the cutting room floor. Anyway, I enjoyed the book which, get this, made sense.
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Now Is the Winter of Our Discontent at January 12, 2025

***
Was that the adaptation with James Coburn as The Continental Op? Odd casting, seeing as how the Op was described in the stories as being rather short and fat.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at January 12, 2025 11:26 AM (omVj0)

353 Incidentally, John Lennon's atheistic, nihilistic hymn Imagine was played at severe Christian Jimmy Carter's funeral. I wonder how they missed Dust In the Wind and The Circle of Life.
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Now Is the Winter of Our Discontent at January 12, 2025 11:24 AM (L/fGl)

"Imagine" is a song guaranteed to melt every American Leftard into a sentimental pile of goo.

I think it was a good choice for what the Democrats wanted to get out of the funeral.

Posted by: naturalfake at January 12, 2025 11:27 AM (iJfKG)

354 This grotesque monstrosity is the Geisel Library at the University of California-San Diego.

Fitting that a California university has a building that would look right at home in Soviet Russia or in North Korea.

Posted by: Same architecture l, at January 12, 2025 11:28 AM (ybSPO)

355 Damn twitchy fingers

Posted by: Same architecture, same ideology at January 12, 2025 11:29 AM (ybSPO)

356 Not exactly.
See: WWI, WWII
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at January 12, 2025 11:23 AM (XeU6L)

Which is kinda the point, innit?
Posted by: BurtTC at January 12, 2025 11:24 AM (lH8E4)

It's like if your city was on fire, and you had to escape. You get your kids out, you get your pets out. You get as many of your valuables out as you can.

You get to safety, and your wife looks at you and says "thank God, we're safe." But you got a funny look on your face. You're wondering if your neighbor turned off his gas, or if maybe there's some people down the block who didn't get out.

Your wife says "you're not going back in there... are you?"

And you say.....

Posted by: BurtTC at January 12, 2025 11:29 AM (lH8E4)

357 "Eh, depends on who you read.

There plenty of SF authors who address the human condition.

SF isn't all "Zap Farsight and the Laser Boys Meet the Meatballs from Mars".

Posted by: naturalfake "

Oh I agree.

The most iconic and most popular Sci-Fi is just people wandering arounf in alien worlds.

In fact Zap Farsight went out of vogue in the 40's/ 50's.

Posted by: eleven at January 12, 2025 11:29 AM (fV+MH)

358
Back from my White Supremacist Christian Nationalist Likely Subversive meeting.

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at January 12, 2025 11:29 AM (dxSpM)

359 So when it comes to war these days, I just start with the notion that nobody's telling the whole story. Everyone's got their bias.

What ever do you mean?!

Posted by: Russia and Ukraine at January 12, 2025 11:29 AM (0eaVi)

360 Europe is comprised of 57 countries that are continually changing their borders and identities.

-
When I graduated from high school, I bought a large map of the world to put on the wall. Now that we had finally gotten all the borders right, by God, they were going to stay that way!

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Now Is the Winter of Our Discontent at January 12, 2025 11:29 AM (L/fGl)

361 This grotesque monstrosity is the Geisel Library at the University of California-San Diego.

Looks like the library got infected by the mushroomy fungus from "The Last of Us".

Posted by: naturalfake at January 12, 2025 11:31 AM (iJfKG)

362 Was that the adaptation with James Coburn as The Continental Op? Odd casting, seeing as how the Op was described in the stories as being rather short and fat.
Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere

Yes.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Now Is the Winter of Our Discontent at January 12, 2025 11:31 AM (L/fGl)

363 If you like hard SF Vinge is great, he's a UCSD comp sci professor.
Posted by: Candidus at January 12, 2025 11:05 AM (YOYV1)

Rainbow's End takes place in the far future date of...2025.

Posted by: I am the Shadout Mapes, the Housekeeper at January 12, 2025 11:33 AM (PiwSw)

364
Interesting possibility for an alt-history. What if Mussolini had been smart like Salazar and Franco and decided to sit out WWII?

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at January 12, 2025 11:33 AM (dxSpM)

365 Something else re the category labels.

Another comment from Barry Malzberg. In one of his essays (believe it's in either Breakfast in the Ruins or The Bend at the End of the Road) he points out that Shirley Jackson's 'The Lottery' would have been right at home in an issue of Weird Tales -- where it would have gotten compliments from the base readership but been absolutely invisible to a wider audience.

But it hit the New Yorker, where it got noticed (to put it mildly).

Posted by: Just Some Guy at January 12, 2025 11:33 AM (q3u5l)

366 Now do the Middle East.
Posted by: BurtTC at January 12, 2025 11:23 AM (lH8E4)

We did.
Posted by: Sykes Picot at January 12, 2025 11:26 AM (xcIvR)

Art Balfour enters the chat....

Posted by: BurtTC at January 12, 2025 11:34 AM (lH8E4)

367
What ever do you mean?!
Posted by: Russia and Ukraine at January 12, 2025 11:29 AM (0eaVi)

___________

Like an episode of "Cops" where the patrol rolls into some trailer park and two fat, trashy girls are incoherently screaming their side of the story simultaneously while lying their heads off.

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at January 12, 2025 11:35 AM (dxSpM)

368 Interesting possibility for an alt-history. What if Mussolini had been smart like Salazar and Franco and decided to sit out WWII?
Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh
___________

No diversion of German troops to the Balkans and North Africa. No diversion of British naval assets to Mediterranean. Definitely helps Germany on balance.

Posted by: Biff Pocoroba at January 12, 2025 11:36 AM (Dm8we)

369 " So when it comes to war these days, I just start with the notion that nobody's telling the whole story. Everyone's got their bias."

Which is why people who only read "non-fiction" are probably kidding themselves.

Fiction is more fun and knows it's fiction.

Posted by: eleven at January 12, 2025 11:36 AM (fV+MH)

370 Another comment from Barry Malzberg. In one of his essays (believe it's in either Breakfast in the Ruins or The Bend at the End of the Road) he points out that Shirley Jackson's 'The Lottery' would have been right at home in an issue of Weird Tales -- where it would have gotten compliments from the base readership but been absolutely invisible to a wider audience. . . .

Posted by: Just Some Guy at January 12, 2025

***
Or in Fantasy & Science Fiction. Jackson did sell at least one story to them.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at January 12, 2025 11:39 AM (omVj0)

371 Not sure it wouldn't have happened anyway but WW1 gave the Bolsheviks a big advantage

Posted by: Skip at January 12, 2025 11:39 AM (fwDg9)

372 >>I'll ever read another war book in my lifetime either.

Try Tanker War: America’s First War with Iran, 1987–88 by Lee Allen Zatarain

I'm in that book. Well, not by name, but an incident I was involved in with an Iranian F-4 over the Persian Gulf during Operation Earnest Will is described in that book.

(The author got most of the details of that incident correct, a few he mangled).

Posted by: one hour sober at January 12, 2025 11:39 AM (Y1sOo)

373 The Holy Roman Emperor used to have a veto power on the election of a Pope.

We sure could have used that these past 65 years

Posted by: no one of any consequence at January 12, 2025 11:40 AM (ZmEVT)

374 Like an episode of "Cops" where the patrol rolls into some trailer park and two fat, trashy girls are incoherently screaming their side of the story simultaneously while lying their heads off.
Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at January 12, 2025 11:35 AM (dxSpM)

Except in this case, the trailer park girls were willing to live next to each other, and stay out of each other's business, until the cops showed up and starting lying to both, giving guns and knives to the smaller chick, saying "are you gonna take that from her? She wants your trailer, she wants your man, you're going to have to let us take part of your land to build a meth lab, and store some of our weapons, and eventually we'll need to just go in and blow up her trailer."

Posted by: BurtTC at January 12, 2025 11:40 AM (lH8E4)

375 340 Europe is comprised of 57 countries that are continually changing their borders and identities.

How is it our responsibility to keep up with that non-sense?

We escaped that shit.
-----
Now do Greenland.

Posted by: Oops at January 12, 2025 11:41 AM (dg+HA)

376 Rainbow's End takes place in the far future date of...2025.
Posted by: I am the Shadout Mapes, the Housekeeper

And (SPOILER ALERT!) there's no pot of gold.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Now Is the Winter of Our Discontent at January 12, 2025 11:41 AM (L/fGl)

377 The Holy Roman Emperor used to have a veto power on the election of a Pope.

We sure could have used that these past 65 years
Posted by: no one of any consequence
_________

Which way did they vote when there were two Popes?

Posted by: Biff Pocoroba at January 12, 2025 11:42 AM (Dm8we)

378 Science fiction is a uniquely American art form and an Overton window opener, freeing Americans to dream about new frontiers and then, for some, work to make those futures a reality.

Which is why the progs have done everything possible to destroy the genre.

Posted by: Candidus at January 12, 2025 11:44 AM (YOYV1)

379 Which way did they vote when there were two Popes?
Posted by: Biff Pocoroba at January 12, 2025 11:42 AM (Dm8we)

They would wait for the real Pope to die, and then give the fake one a Presidential Medal of Freedom.

Posted by: BurtTC at January 12, 2025 11:44 AM (lH8E4)

380 It may be a grotesque monstrosity, but that's one structure in SoCal that ain't gonna burn. At least not from the outside.

Also for those interested, Michael Tracy's YouTube channel disassembles a lot of the Everest fact and fiction.

Posted by: Ex Rex Reeder at January 12, 2025 11:45 AM (MZ+PY)

381 re Shirley Jackson

Yep, her story 'One Ordinary Day, with Peanuts' was published in F&SF. Maybe a couple of others too, but I'm too lazy to pick through her short fiction listing at isfdb.org right now.

Had 'The Lottery' not made the splash it did, it wouldn't have wound up included in half the high-school lit textbooks over the past several decades.

Posted by: Just Some Guy at January 12, 2025 11:46 AM (q3u5l)

382
The Holy Roman Emperor used to have a veto power on the election of a Pope.

__________

It was that several European monarchs had a veto on papabile in the Conclave. The veto would be delivered by one of the cardinals. The last time it was used was 1903.

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at January 12, 2025 11:46 AM (dxSpM)

383 It uses "white nationalists," "Christian nationalists," "white Christians" and "Christian evangelicals" interchangeably.

Posted by: People's Hippo Voice at January 12, 2025 10:35 AM (kJM3W)

It's very important to destroy Christianity and White European Culture if you want to turn their countries into a sloppy mess of Islam/Atheist/Communist puke. And nobody ever accuse these most intolerant groups of trying to legislate away Christianity.

Posted by: Long night... at January 12, 2025 11:47 AM (2NXcZ)

384 in press conference about the fires, cbs asked mayor bass about how they plan to deal with hostility toward california from the incoming trump administration.

Posted by: anachronda at January 12, 2025 11:47 AM (edU/H)

385 Well, off to fail at coping with reality...

Thanks for the thread, Perfessor. Always a pleasure.

Have a good one, gang.

Posted by: Just Some Guy at January 12, 2025 11:49 AM (q3u5l)

386 Now do Greenland.
Posted by: Oops at January 12, 2025 11:41 AM (dg+HA)

All we have to do is dust off the archives and study the processes used for the Gadsen Purchase and "Seward's Folly".

Posted by: mrp at January 12, 2025 11:49 AM (rj6Yv)

387 We funded the destruction of Syria and have not a word to say about the murders of Christians or Alawites. But try to throw out violent muslims or prevent their migration and you are a hateful bigot. Hopefully, CNN will collapse under its stupidity.

Posted by: Long night... at January 12, 2025 11:49 AM (2NXcZ)

388 if you want to turn their countries into a sloppy mess of Islam/Atheist/Communist puke.
Posted by: Long night
__________

One of these things is not like the other. The falling out, when it comes, will be something.

Posted by: Biff Pocoroba at January 12, 2025 11:49 AM (Dm8we)

389 "...cbs asked..."
I think I've found you're problem.

Posted by: Ask Dan Rather at January 12, 2025 11:50 AM (dg+HA)

390 Ice-9 was a genius level Sci-Fi concept.

Posted by: pawn, RIP Vic at January 12, 2025 11:50 AM (QB+5g)

391 in press conference about the fires, cbs asked mayor bass about how they plan to deal with hostility toward california from the incoming trump administration.
Posted by: anachronda at January 12,

Listening as well. Bass aside, that asshole should be concerned with hostility towards cbs.

Posted by: Diogenes at January 12, 2025 11:50 AM (W/lyH)

392 Yep, got Sunday chores to do too. Thanks again to the Perfessor and all of you for the highlight of the week -- a bustling Book Thread!

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at January 12, 2025 11:50 AM (omVj0)

393 in press conference about the fires, cbs asked mayor bass about how they plan to deal with hostility toward california from the incoming trump administration.
Posted by: anachronda at January 12,

Listening as well. Bass aside, that asshole should be concerned with hostility towards cbs.
Posted by: Diogenes at January 12, 2025 11:50 AM (W/lyH)

Did she say anything, or just stand there with a stupid look on her face?

Posted by: BurtTC at January 12, 2025 11:52 AM (lH8E4)

394 Greenland will never be a state.

Come now. Two senators from Greenland?

Or Puerto Rico.?

Greenland will be like Guam or Canada.

Posted by: eleven at January 12, 2025 11:52 AM (fV+MH)

395 I'm reading The Big Show by Closterman, the memoirs of a French fighter pilot flying Spitfires in WW 2. This is a remarkably good book...numerous vignettes and a real touch on how to describe battle.

Posted by: Diogenes at January 12, 2025 11:53 AM (W/lyH)

396 384 in press conference about the fires, cbs asked mayor bass about how they plan to deal with hostility toward california from the incoming trump administration.
Posted by: anachronda at January 12, 2025 11:47 AM (edU/H)

Seems Newsom and the left were the hostile ones. Planned neglect to turn LA into a "smart city"?

Posted by: Long night... at January 12, 2025 11:53 AM (2NXcZ)

397 Bass?
You mean like the Bass-O-Matic 76?

Posted by: Dan Akroyd at January 12, 2025 11:54 AM (dg+HA)

398 Except in this case, the trailer park girls were willing to live next to each other, and stay out of each other's business, until the cops showed up and starting lying to both, giving guns and knives to the smaller chick, saying "are you gonna take that from her? She wants your trailer, she wants your man, you're going to have to let us take part of your land to build a meth lab, and store some of our weapons, and eventually we'll need to just go in and blow up her trailer."
Posted by: BurtTC at January 12, 2025 11:40 AM (lH8E4)

The cops lying and deliberately escalating a situation is far closer to modern day reality.

Posted by: BLAM BLAM STOP RESISTING BLAM BLAM at January 12, 2025 11:55 AM (ybSPO)

399 Greenland will be like Guam or Canada.
Posted by: eleven

Well, as long as it's not like Chicago, Baltimore, or Detroit.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Now Is the Winter of Our Discontent at January 12, 2025 11:55 AM (L/fGl)

400 Ice-9 was genius.

Posted by: eleven at January 12, 2025 11:55 AM (fV+MH)

401 Rainbow's End takes place in the far future date of...2025.
Posted by: I am the Shadout Mapes, the Housekeeper

That is so surprising to me, I did not remember that. On the one hand it's sad that we haven't had that tech development yet, on the other hand it's great that we haven't had that tech development yet. On the gripping hand...

Posted by: Candidus at January 12, 2025 11:55 AM (YOYV1)

402 381 re Shirley Jackson

Yep, her story 'One Ordinary Day, with Peanuts' was published in F&SF. Maybe a couple of others too, but I'm too lazy to pick through her short fiction listing at isfdb.org right now.
...
Posted by: Just Some Guy at January 12, 2025 11:46 AM (q3u5l)

One Ordinary Day is included in the Library of America's "Shirley Jackson, Novels and Stories" collection. Other stories include The Haunting of Hill House, and We Have Always Lived in the Castle.

https://is.gd/1AakH7

Posted by: I am the Shadout Mapes, the Housekeeper at January 12, 2025 11:56 AM (PiwSw)

403 Yeah, that sad time's upon us. Again. Thanks for the thread, Perfessor.

Posted by: OrangeEnt at January 12, 2025 11:56 AM (0eaVi)

404 Did she say anything, or just stand there with a stupid look on her face?
Posted by: BurtTC at January 12, 2025 11:52 AM (lH8E4)

They are suspending a bunch of city, county, and coastal commission regulations for building in the area. You know, those hundreds of regulations that were absolutely necessary for building safely in California, and for justifying the bureaucracy...but most for justifying the bureaucracy.

Posted by: Diogenes at January 12, 2025 11:58 AM (W/lyH)

405 "I'm reading The Big Show by Closterman, the memoirs of a French fighter pilot flying Spitfires in WW 2. This is a remarkably good book...numerous vignettes and a real touch on how to describe battle.
Posted by: Diogenes "

You might like Farley Mowatt. A Canadian who wrote of his experiences in WWII.

Posted by: eleven at January 12, 2025 11:59 AM (fV+MH)

406 I think it was a good choice for what the Democrats wanted to get out of the funeral.
Posted by: naturalfake at January 12, 2025 11:27 AM (iJfKG)

The 'Internationale' would've been too on the nose.

Posted by: Sassy Fred at January 12, 2025 11:59 AM (RMjVS)

407 WE HAZ A NOOD

Posted by: Skip at January 12, 2025 12:01 PM (fwDg9)

408 You might like Farley Mowatt. A Canadian who wrote of his experiences in WWII.
Posted by: eleven at January 12, 2025 11:59 AM (fV+MH)

I'll check it out.

Posted by: Diogenes at January 12, 2025 12:01 PM (W/lyH)

409 On YouTube there is a whole class of SF stories called Humanity Fuck Yeah (HFY), where spacefaring humans are seen as gonzo unstoppable nutjobs by all the indolent wussy alien species out there.

Search YT for "HFY stories". They use AI to generate the still images and do the narration. There are a lot of them, and some of them are pretty funny.

Posted by: WillowViney at January 12, 2025 12:01 PM (d3MA1)

410
They are suspending a bunch of city, county, and coastal commission regulations for building in the area. You know, those hundreds of regulations that were absolutely necessary for building safely in California, and for justifying the bureaucracy...but most for justifying the bureaucracy.
Posted by: Diogenes at January 12, 2025 11:58 AM (W/lyH)

Promising. Have the rebuilt Lahaina?

Posted by: Long night... at January 12, 2025 12:03 PM (2NXcZ)

411 Vonnegut used SF to explore themes unrelated to mainstream SF, often absurdist. Perfect for bright teenage boys and/or stoners.
Posted by: Ignoramus at January 12, 2025 11:14 AM (Gqoy+)

This. Vonnegut was an author of the absurd.

Posted by: Dr Pork Chops & Bacons at January 12, 2025 12:04 PM (g8Ew8)

412 Great call out in Rainbow's End. I loved that book. For some reason Vinge never made it to my SF reading. I picked it up after his passing.

Posted by: JSpicy at January 12, 2025 12:04 PM (ICC/a)

413 The HFY stories have gotten a bit tiresome. At first they were amusing, often with arrogant aliens getting surprised by the Earth monkeys. One or two had humanity saving the day because other civilizations were too civilized to defend themselves against an outside threat.

But lately they seem to be degenerating into rote space war porn with no twist or surprise. I wonder if they're now written by AI.

Posted by: Trimegistus at January 12, 2025 12:09 PM (78a2H)

414 SF isn't all "Zap Farsight and the Laser Boys Meet the Meatballs from Mars".
-----

I would read the heck out of this.

Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes at January 12, 2025 12:21 PM (kpS4V)

415 I have a book on WW1 dated 1919 and it tells it like it was.

Long time ago, I found the complete Literary Digest History of The World War (12 vols) in a throwaway pile. Heavy on the personal anecdotes, and some very touching ones they were. Showed it to a Pentagon colonel with PhD in the family, and he said books like that put out on the heels of the event were generally considered worthless by military historians.

But then, he went to Ia Drang.

He was the first one I ever heard say that optimists study Russian, and pessimists Chinese.

Posted by: Way,Way Downriver at January 12, 2025 12:37 PM (zdLoL)

416 Maybe an unpopular opinion, but I think that library building is stunning, and it's proof that even brutalism can be attractive with the right architect.

Posted by: Rusty Nail at January 12, 2025 12:39 PM (TdCYS)

417 Now do Greenland.
______________________

All we have to do is dust off the archives and study the processes used for the Gadsden Purchase and "Seward's Folly" Florida and the Louisiana Purchase.

Posted by: Way,Way Downriver at January 12, 2025 12:48 PM (zdLoL)

418 Is Ice-9 the long form inverted version of Adam and No Eve?

Posted by: Grump928(C) at January 12, 2025 01:28 PM (aD39U)

419 Just a couple of side comments;
The Hearst Castle in San Simeon has a carrion, but it is not automated in any way, so someone has to actually play it. It's been decades since I've been there, so I don't know if this is still accurate, but they used to have someone play it on the 4th of July. It's operated by the California Parks.
If you wanted to see a real line climbing a mountain, the 4th of July and Labor Day was like a human freeway on Mt Whitney. There are challenging routes, but there is also basically a trail to the top, where there's three sections, all of less than 50 yards where you will use your hands, but just for balance because of the steepness. When we did this in the early 70's, we're were actually passed by a woman who was obvious in her 60's. That no longer occurs because the Forest Service limits the number of people in "blocks" in the Wilderness Area, and the Mt Whiney trail is in the same block as the PCT, which is perpetually full. Less than a hundred permits a year are issued for the Mt Whitney trail.

Posted by: buddhaha at January 12, 2025 01:38 PM (e16Yw)

420 Carillon, dammit, not carrion. Autocucumber strikes again

Posted by: buddhaha at January 12, 2025 01:40 PM (e16Yw)

421 late and will probably be missed, but i think the prequel to the Adelsverein trilogy is Daughter of Texas and Deep in the Heart. I don't think of them so much as prequels even though they're the much the same characters and in approximately the same time frame. I think of them as further explorations in Sgt Mom's Texas universe.

Posted by: yara at January 12, 2025 02:08 PM (fUPOV)

422 UCSD LIBRARY

Posted by: BigG at January 12, 2025 02:24 PM (u1geW)

423 Marveling at the subtlety of the dialog between Gandalf and Bilbo as the wizard gently prods the hobbit into relinquishing the Ring willingly before his departure. Why, look, it's still in my pocket... That even a generous spirit like Bilbo gets possessive of "his" ring, and Gandalf emphatically doesn't want it given to him, shows how dangerous it is.

Of course that hack Jackson has to SHOW US that Bilbo is turning into Gollum.

Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes at January 12, 2025 02:32 PM (kpS4V)

424 The UCSD library in the photo was designed without the support structure on the outside. They only figured out later that they forgot to calculate the weight of the books, so they had to add the supports on the outside to hold it up.

Posted by: Harun at January 12, 2025 03:02 PM (IuIym)

425 Probably no one around anymore, but I'm late so... I also love the UCSD library. It's massive and looks more impressive in person, especially if you're wandering the campus at night after smoking er, tobacco, and come upon it through the eucalyptus trees. At least it was a few decades ago, not sure how it's situated now after the massive amount of changes made to the school.

Also shout out to Simon and Simon, which featured the library in (iirc) the first episode and in the opening credits.

Posted by: Dr. Fausti - I AM The Science at January 12, 2025 03:42 PM (lg881)

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