Be Careful What You Wish For...The Unintended Consequences Of Regime Change

Abu Mohammed al-Julani

Who?

He is the leader of Hayat Tahrir al-Sham (HTS), which is the leading rebel group in Syria. You know...the one that has deposed the horrendous Assad family that has ruled Syria for more than 50 years. And that's a good thing...right?

Sure. Getting rid of homicidal dictators who think nothing of gassing their own people and who conduct civil wars that kill 500,000 civilians is always a good thing. Except for when the victors are nothing more than a rebranding of al Qaeda. HTS makes pretty noises and seems to be a "moderate" Islamist group (whatever that means), but the reality is that they are more politically astute and aware of the power of the media to manipulate public opinion...until it is too late.

How can a Sunni Islamist group uphold its stated goals and protect religious minorities? They can't. And they won't. Syria is in for a bad time, just like the previous 50 years, only for different people.

However, the cascade that began on October 7, 2023 has engulfed Hamas, Hezbollah, released Israel's defense establishment from the sclerotic and dangerous policies of the past 20 years, exposed Iran's weakness as a regional player, and the limits of Russia's force projection. That Syria is the first formal loser is a surprise, and the geopolitical black hole that it creates is worthy of attention, but the obvious root cause is Iran's failure, followed by Russia's inability (or disinterest) to continue to protect Assad's regime.

President Trump has already stated that it isn't our business, and to let Syria's political convulsions play out. That is a refreshing message after four years of idiotic and chaotic foreign policy failures driven by the Biden/Obama wing of the Democrat party.

Israel has already moved into a defensive posture along the Syrian border, destroyed a chemical weapons plant, and conducted air strikes in Damascus. They are taking no chances! Hopefully Syria will no longer be a conduit for weaponry from Iran to Hezbollah, which will further isolate them and make their fight will Israel more difficult.

I am not suggesting that toppling despots is a bad thing. But the problem with violent overthrow as opposed to political change is that violence tends to spill over into other parts of society and even neighboring countries. Obama, and then Biden had a chance to assist in the political destruction of the Mullahs of Iran, and they chose to support them rather than the forces of moderation. How many thousands of people are dead because of those decisions? Has Iran lost the possibility of a mostly peaceful transition from the Mullah's theocracy? Will the theocracy, in its weakened and vulnerable state, lash out against its internal enemies? How many will die in an Iranian civil war? And what about the Kurds in the north of Syria? They are besieged by Turkey, and now the Syrian rebels. That strengthens Turkey, which is never a good thing.

We are seeing the consequences of decisions made more than 20 years ago by the Bush administration and then the Obama administration. Regime change in Iraq and Afghanistan has yielded...what? Trying to be kingmakers in the Middle East has been a losing proposition for about 2,500 years, yet THIS TIME it will work because we have the correct people operating the levers of power?

Hopefully the result will be a powerful Israel, a weakened Iran that moves away from its genocidal regional aspirations, and perhaps a Syria that looks inward for a few years. Lebanon may be next, as Hezbollah is weak, and the Arab world despises nothing more than weakness!

But let us not pretend that the fall of the house of Assad is an unalloyed good thing. The ripples will move in unknown directions, and trying to predict where they will go is hubris.

Posted by: CBD at 12:00 PM

Comments

(Jump to bottom of comments)

1 Good afternoon everyone

Posted by: Skip at December 08, 2024 12:01 PM (fwDg9)

2 Meet the new Boss, same as the old Boss

Posted by: Skip at December 08, 2024 12:03 PM (fwDg9)

3 Not our business.

"Nation building" sounded so noble.

In reality, all about the money.

Bastards....

Posted by: Stateless at December 08, 2024 12:03 PM (jvJvP)

4 "I am not suggesting that toppling despots is a bad thing," though one can think of multiple instances in the last century where it turned out very badly. Castro->Batista, the fall of the house of Pahlavi, etc.

Posted by: lyford at December 08, 2024 12:05 PM (PC80d)

5 [...]one can think of multiple instances in the last century where it turned out very badly.

Posted by: lyford at December 08, 2024 12:05 PM (PC80d)

Absolutely. And a bad result might take years to appear.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at December 08, 2024 12:06 PM (d9fT1)

6 Meet the new boss...

Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at December 08, 2024 12:07 PM (63Dwl)

7 If the Frogs had any balls they would send in a couple Para regiments and take over the place. Syria wasn't bad under French rule. Most shitholes on Earth would probably welcome colonial government.

Posted by: bill in arkansas, not gonna comply with nuttin, waiting for the 0300 knock on the door at December 08, 2024 12:09 PM (gm9Sb)

8 Some of the 'analysts' looking at the situation in Syria think there will be a lot of infighting among the various Islamist groups vying for supremacy. Trump thinks (according to sources) that the US would be better off to let them fight among themselves for a while.

What our IC and MIC will do between now and the time Trump takes office.... is debatable but likely not what Trump wants.

Posted by: Martini Farmer at December 08, 2024 12:09 PM (Q4IgG)

9 Nice write up CBD.
In Iran, watch the military leadership. What happens there will signal how they may go. A purge like Turkey? Or something else. Iran's biggest weakness, and one often overlooked, is its inability to project power. Big armies, but no real way to get them anywhere except by trucks and you cannot hide that.

Posted by: Diogenes at December 08, 2024 12:10 PM (W/lyH)

10 From Arab Summer to Arab Fall.

Posted by: Reforger at December 08, 2024 12:10 PM (xcIvR)

11 I heard somewhere that the new group is DIVERSE!
Might even have a couple trannies.

Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at December 08, 2024 12:10 PM (63Dwl)

12 I would have never got into Muslim countries, would have been better to leave them there fighting each other.

Posted by: Skip at December 08, 2024 12:10 PM (fwDg9)

13
"Regime change in Iraq and Afghanistan has yielded...what?"

The U.S. created Sharia Law based Islamic Republics in both of those countries.
That's what.

Posted by: Speller at December 08, 2024 12:11 PM (pSotA)

14 A dominos thing happened I think…. Brandon’s weakness and catering to evil regimes led to 10/7… all of this (including Ukraine) flows from that. Biden is Carter 2.0 and yet much much worse!

Posted by: LinusVanPelt at December 08, 2024 12:11 PM (WnEm5)

15 ...seems to be a "moderate" Islamist group

I always laugh when the media would call some one or some group a moderate Islamist. I'd laugh and laugh.

Posted by: Diogenes at December 08, 2024 12:12 PM (W/lyH)

16 But let us not pretend that the fall of the house of Assad is an unalloyed good thing. The ripples will move in unknown directions, and trying to predict where they will go is hubris.

Posted by CBD at 12:00 PM

No refugees, please.

Posted by: long night ending, dawn in January at December 08, 2024 12:13 PM (2NXcZ)

17 I saw a comment from Nurse on the ONT, but too late to respond. She wanted to stop sending foreign aid to countries that hate us.

I agree, since that would effectively stop all foreign aid. I don't think there are very many countries that like us. Wouldn't that be just too bad.

Posted by: Hour of the Wolf - Remember Vic and VNN! at December 08, 2024 12:13 PM (VNX3d)

18
The future of the Middle East will resemble the history of Russia: "And then things got worse."

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at December 08, 2024 12:14 PM (dxSpM)

19 CBS News had a report this morning about the evil Jews bombing a designated safe zone for refugees complete with footage of a mother morning her child and complaining that they think we're just terrorists. I wonder how they got a crazy ass idea like that.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Now With Peppermint Mocha! at December 08, 2024 12:14 PM (L/fGl)

20 The rebel groups emptied out Assad’s prisons. Guess where those former prisoners are coming.

Posted by: Duke Lowell at December 08, 2024 12:15 PM (u73oe)

21 Had this situation developed earlier in *biden's term I think the situation would have been much, much worse for us, and Israel.

I don't know what sort of military infrastructure the Russians are leaving behind. I'm fairly certain they'll take everything not bolted down and likely destroy the rest. But there's bound to be plenty of weaponry the Islamists in Syria can leverage.

Posted by: Martini Farmer at December 08, 2024 12:17 PM (Q4IgG)

22 An immediate benefit to Israel today - the IDF this morning moved to take control of Mt. Herman, the Syrian Armies most important listening post and communications station.
Mt Herman is the highest point in the region, and incredibly strategic for that reason. Also it is traditionally the farthest northern boundary of Israel back in the Kingdom days; when Israel was at its most powerful, Mt Herman was its northern boundary marker. Looks like it will be again.

Posted by: Tom Servo at December 08, 2024 12:17 PM (W6hoT)

23
...seems to be a "moderate" Islamist group

I always laugh when the media would call some one or some group a moderate Islamist. I'd laugh and laugh.
Posted by: Diogenes

The new Soviet premiers always liked jazz music.

Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at December 08, 2024 12:18 PM (63Dwl)

24 In Iran, watch the military leadership. What happens there will signal how they may go. A purge like Turkey?

Posted by: Diogenes at December 08, 2024 12:10 PM (W/lyH)

How about the other way around? I doubt there are any sane senior officers left, but maybe a nice military dictatorship that hangs the Mullahs and cleans up Iran for a few years.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at December 08, 2024 12:18 PM (d9fT1)

25 I'm reminded of the story told by RFK Jr that Trump drew a map of the Middle East then wrote in the troop strength of each country.
From memory.

The BS of the 3 Obama terms is over.

Posted by: People's Hippo Voice at December 08, 2024 12:18 PM (VgXwM)

26 And now he clash of the factions begins.

Posted by: javems at December 08, 2024 12:20 PM (8I4hW)

27 Posted by: Tom Servo at December 08, 2024 12:17 PM (W6hoT)

Israel took the Syrian side of Mt. Hermon. Israel has a ski resort on its side of the mountain.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at December 08, 2024 12:21 PM (d9fT1)

28 I would have never got into Muslim countries, would have been better to leave them there fighting each other.
Posted by: Skip

True.
One of Bush's first actions after 9-11 was "More visas for Muslims and arabs!". I think was five minutes after ROPma.

Posted by: Itinerant Alley Butcher at December 08, 2024 12:21 PM (/lPRQ)

29 The new regime will make it more difficult to launder dirty money for the Kleptocrats in the US, although they have bigger problems now.

Posted by: Roy at December 08, 2024 12:21 PM (z+ik4)

30 If you're into maps and such....

syria.liveuamap.com

Posted by: Martini Farmer at December 08, 2024 12:22 PM (Q4IgG)

31
I wonder, what would have happened if we hadn't pulled the plug on the Shah? He certainly wasn't any worse than the other thugs there at the time or later.

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at December 08, 2024 12:22 PM (dxSpM)

32 His Holiness Lord Obama has come in for some criticism from the Chicago Journo.

https://is.gd/ilE2BJ

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Now With Peppermint Mocha! at December 08, 2024 12:22 PM (L/fGl)

33 There were reports yesterday that Russian planes were bombing and destroying Russian supply depots, hope the pentagon was taking notes on how it should be done.
We’re sitting here wondering if this is good or bad; but Russia is looking at the total collapse of 30 years of maneuvering in the region. They’re kicked out with nothing to show for it.

Posted by: Tom Servo at December 08, 2024 12:22 PM (W6hoT)

34 On topic -

FAFO:

https://tinyurl.com/56muppar

Posted by: Biden's Dog sniffs a whole lotta malarkey, at December 08, 2024 12:22 PM (CflQn)

35 "19 CBS News had a report..."

I think I found your problem.

Posted by: Quarter Twenty at December 08, 2024 12:22 PM (dg+HA)

36 That Syria is the first formal loser is a surprise, and the geopolitical black hole that it creates is worthy of attention...

Well, somebody had to be first and there aren't too many choices in that area. Lebanon next? Maybe but with Hezbollah neutered for now, perhaps not. Jordan? I don't see that happening.
Always worth it to note, no plan survives the first shot down range, and no revolt is automatic. Infighting is now the biggest threat.

Posted by: Diogenes at December 08, 2024 12:23 PM (W/lyH)

37
I have a crazy idea that the CIA has been supporting the Shiite / Sunni centuries-long enmity and playing one group against the other in the middle east for decades.

Not that those fuckers need any help hating each other, but they gotta buy weapons from somebody.

Posted by: Auspex at December 08, 2024 12:23 PM (j4U/Z)

38 What I want to know is, when will things in Syria settle down enough so we can start shipping in the rainbow flags and Arabic editions of Heather's Two Mommies?

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero43) at December 08, 2024 12:24 PM (hY4dx)

39 Israel took the Syrian side of Mt. Hermon. Israel has a ski resort on its side of the mountain.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at December 08, 2024 12:21 PM (d9fT1)

Thanks for the clarification; apparently they didn’t have the summit before, because they are happily posting pictures of troops and commanders waving the flag on top of the summit this morning.

Posted by: Tom Servo at December 08, 2024 12:24 PM (W6hoT)

40
What I want to know is, when will things in Syria settle down enough so we can start shipping in the rainbow flags and Arabic editions of Heather's Two Mommies?
Posted by: Cicero (@cicero43) at December 08, 2024 12:24 PM (hY4dx)

_________

*looks at calendar*

Never

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at December 08, 2024 12:25 PM (dxSpM)

41 Russia is looking at the total collapse of 30 years of maneuvering in the region. They’re kicked out with nothing to show for it.
Posted by: Tom Servo

Unlike our triumphs in Afghanistan and Iraq!

Posted by: Auspex at December 08, 2024 12:25 PM (j4U/Z)

42 I'm with Trump on this. Other than logistical support for Israel (and perhaps overthrow of the Iranian mullahs), we need to stay out of this quagmire of muzzie in-fighting.

Posted by: Dr Pork Chops & Bacons at December 08, 2024 12:27 PM (g8Ew8)

43 Okay, but what does TayTay think?

Posted by: Young people today at December 08, 2024 12:27 PM (dg+HA)

44
Unlike our triumphs in Afghanistan and Iraq!
Posted by: Auspex at December 08, 2024 12:25 PM (j4U/Z)

__________

What happened to those "Americans" left in Afghanistan?

Did they find all those missing people in Maui?

How many dead in NC?

Anyone curious?

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at December 08, 2024 12:28 PM (dxSpM)

45 What I want to know is, when will things in Syria settle down enough so we can start shipping in the rainbow flags and Arabic editions of Heather's Two Mommies?
Posted by: Cicero (@cicero43) at December 08, 2024 12:24 PM (hY4dx)

Can we ship them a lot of drag queens, and all of the members of Queers for Palestine? All of the pro-Palestinian protestors as well?

Let them enjoy the fruits of their labors.

Posted by: Hour of the Wolf - Remember Vic and VNN! at December 08, 2024 12:28 PM (VNX3d)

46 34 On topic -

FAFO:

https://tinyurl.com/56muppar

------------

Talmudic Scum: 1

Jew-Haters: 0

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero43) at December 08, 2024 12:28 PM (hY4dx)

47 But do the various Syrian factions know that its Christmas?

Posted by: Bob Geldof at December 08, 2024 12:28 PM (Aqu9a)

48 I think we may be analyzing the qualities of the 2 sides too much. At best, the choice is between bad and worse and with our luck we would choose worse.

I think instead all of our attention should be directed to keeping all the bastards out of this country. The numbers of people from muslim countries should be curtailed if not stopped altogether.

Leftists would probably call this racial profiling but it is more like religious profiling. I plead guilty as charged.

Posted by: Dr. Claw at December 08, 2024 12:29 PM (3wi/L)

49 44 days until the inauguration

Posted by: Skip at December 08, 2024 12:29 PM (fwDg9)

50 Russia's problems with losing Syria stretch beyond the Med. Syria and the Russian Navy's base at Tartus was their stepping stone into Africa.

That's gone.

As is most of their leverage over the Suez and Gibraltar.

Posted by: Martini Farmer at December 08, 2024 12:29 PM (Q4IgG)

51 Unlike our triumphs in Afghanistan and Iraq!
Posted by: Auspex at December 08, 2024 12:25 PM (j4U/Z)

Reminds me of War Games - the only way to win is not to play.

Posted by: Tom Servo at December 08, 2024 12:29 PM (W6hoT)

52 I think we may be analyzing the qualities of the 2 sides too much. At best, the choice is between bad and worse and with our luck we would choose worse.

I think instead all of our attention should be directed to keeping all the bastards out of this country. The numbers of people from muslim countries should be curtailed if not stopped altogether.

Leftists would probably call this racial profiling but it is more like religious profiling. I plead guilty as charged.
Posted by: Dr. Claw at December 08, 2024 12:29 PM (3wi/L)

I call it the results of a proper risk assessment.

Posted by: Hour of the Wolf - Remember Vic and VNN! at December 08, 2024 12:29 PM (VNX3d)

53 I wonder, what would have happened if we hadn't pulled the plug on the Shah? He certainly wasn't any worse than the other thugs there at the time or later.
Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at December 08, 2024 12:22 PM (dxSpM)

So much THIS!

Posted by: Dr Pork Chops & Bacons at December 08, 2024 12:29 PM (g8Ew8)

54 How about the other way around? I doubt there are any sane senior officers left, but maybe a nice military dictatorship that hangs the Mullahs and cleans up Iran for a few years.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at December 08, 2024 12:18 PM (d9fT1)

It could happen.
Somewhere in my den...errr....I mean my study, I have a pretty good, if dated, Iranian Order of Battle analysis. I'll have to dig it out. I recall reading some time ago that there is a significant minority of Iranians who long for a return to more Western ways, and who are generally pro-west. Essentially the folks Obama crapped on.

Posted by: Diogenes at December 08, 2024 12:30 PM (W/lyH)

55
Can we ship them a lot of drag queens, and all of the members of Queers for Palestine? All of the pro-Palestinian protestors as well?

_________

I'd like to get every "Middle East Expert", ship them off to Syria and tell them, "Sort this out or don't come back alive."

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at December 08, 2024 12:30 PM (dxSpM)

56 Moderate paranoid schizophrenic > moderate Islamist group

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Now With Peppermint Mocha! at December 08, 2024 12:32 PM (L/fGl)

57 Between the collapse of all of their proxies, and the fear and cowardice that the Iranian leadership has displayed whenever the prospect of Real War with Israel has come up, I think the Iranian regime is at great risk of an internal overthrow. They’ve shown great weakness, and that is often the kiss of death for an unpopular dictatorial regime.

Posted by: Tom Servo at December 08, 2024 12:33 PM (W6hoT)

58 Wow- Alabama out!

Posted by: Piper at December 08, 2024 12:35 PM (p4NUW)

59 Also it is traditionally the farthest northern boundary of Israel back in the Kingdom days; when Israel was at its most powerful, Mt Herman was its northern boundary marker. Looks like it will be again.
Posted by: Tom Servo at December 08, 2024 12:17 PM (W6hoT)

Kind of a goose-bump moment. Almost prophetic.

Posted by: Diogenes at December 08, 2024 12:35 PM (W/lyH)

60 Sort out the Middle East? Lawrence had it figured out over 100 years ago.

“Sherif Ali, so long as the Arabs fight tribe against tribe, so long will they be a little people, a silly people, greedy, barbarous, and cruel as you are.”

Posted by: Tom Servo at December 08, 2024 12:36 PM (W6hoT)

61 Have they discovered what happened to Assad’s plane?

Posted by: Piper at December 08, 2024 12:37 PM (p4NUW)

62
Let them enjoy the fruits of their labors.
Posted by: Hour of the Wolf

And the labor of their fruits.

Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at December 08, 2024 12:37 PM (63Dwl)

63 I wonder, what would have happened if we hadn't pulled the plug on the Shah? He certainly wasn't any worse than the other thugs there at the time or later.
Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh

Jimmy Cracker, who has been criticality dead for two years now, has a lot to answer for.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Now With Peppermint Mocha! at December 08, 2024 12:38 PM (L/fGl)

64 Kind of a goose-bump moment. Almost prophetic.
Posted by: Diogenes at December 08, 2024 12:35 PM (W/lyH)

When we see the mosque on the Temple Mount destroyed and new foundations being laid, then we better gird our loins.

Posted by: Dr Pork Chops & Bacons at December 08, 2024 12:39 PM (g8Ew8)

65 58 Wow- Alabama out!
Posted by: Piper

Low tide.

Posted by: Auspex at December 08, 2024 12:39 PM (j4U/Z)

66 If you're into maps and such....

syria.liveuamap.com
Posted by: Martini Farmer
----
Have they discovered what happened to Assad’s plane?
Posted by: Piper
==
Link above says Russia.

Posted by: Itinerant Alley Butcher at December 08, 2024 12:40 PM (/lPRQ)

67
I wonder, what would have happened if we hadn't pulled the plug on the Shah?

What would have happened if there had never been a Shah?

Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at December 08, 2024 12:40 PM (63Dwl)

68 Regime change always works well in the Middle East. Super easy barely an inconvenience.

Posted by: Its Go Time Donald at December 08, 2024 12:41 PM (SBwvE)

69 Have they discovered what happened to Assad’s plane?
Posted by: Piper at December 08, 2024 12:37 PM (p4NUW)
-

It's pretty certain that he's safe and sound among Russian allies.

Posted by: Biden's Dog sniffs a whole lotta malarkey, at December 08, 2024 12:41 PM (CflQn)

70 Let them enjoy the fruits of their labors.
Posted by: Hour of the Wolf

Syria = the bed they made
The Islamicists = let them lie in it

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Now With Peppermint Mocha! at December 08, 2024 12:41 PM (L/fGl)

71 I would put $100 on Russia as destination

Posted by: Skip at December 08, 2024 12:41 PM (fwDg9)

72 So they're gonna trade one Dictator for another.. Trump is right.. We need to steer clear of this

Posted by: It's me donna at December 08, 2024 12:42 PM (VE6XX)

73

Lest we forget Hillary and McCain running guns from Libya to Syria that led to the slaughter of 4 American diplomats in Benghazi!

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at December 08, 2024 12:43 PM (x0n13)

74 Essentially the folks Obama crapped on.
Posted by: Diogenes at December 08, 2024 12:30 PM (W/lyH)

The Green Revolution was so tragic to watch. I still can't believe some of what I saw from there. Six guys at a time being hung from forklifts. Gunman just spraying into crouds.

Posted by: Reforger at December 08, 2024 12:43 PM (xcIvR)

75 Somewhere, Saddam Hussein is laughing. Of course that might be because Satan is tickling his balls, but...

Posted by: Ex Rex Reeder at December 08, 2024 12:44 PM (MZ+PY)

76 *crowds.

Posted by: Reforger at December 08, 2024 12:45 PM (xcIvR)

77
Have they discovered what happened to Assad’s plane?

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0067608

Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at December 08, 2024 12:45 PM (63Dwl)

78 So Assad is likely to be in Russia.

Does he have to request a tourist visa? Business? Diplomatic or asylum?

Posted by: Itinerant Alley Butcher at December 08, 2024 12:45 PM (/lPRQ)

79 Hezbollah may be weakened enough now that the Lebanese Government can move against them and regain Lebanon’s sovereignty. Hezbollah had lost a huge amount of equipment and men in Syria (many appear to have fled to Iraq). Plus Hezbollah has now lost all the land routes with which Iran kept it supplied.
The IDF staged a large number of air strikes in Syria yesterday; one of their targets was an armored column of Hezbollah vehicles attempting to escape from a rebel force and head back into Lebanon.

Posted by: Tom Servo at December 08, 2024 12:46 PM (W6hoT)

80 Lest we forget Hillary and McCain running guns from Libya to Syria that led to the slaughter of 4 American diplomats in Benghazi!
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at December 08, 2024 12:43 PM (x0n13)

Dems have never known how to run foreign policy.

And yes, I consider McCain a democrat.

Posted by: Dr Pork Chops & Bacons at December 08, 2024 12:46 PM (g8Ew8)

81 I wonder, what would have happened if we hadn't pulled the plug on the Shah?

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at December 08, 2024 12:22 PM (dxSpM)
-

You can just as much wonder what would have happened had the Brits and CIA left Mosaddegh alone in the 50s.

Posted by: Biden's Dog sniffs a whole lotta malarkey, at December 08, 2024 12:46 PM (CflQn)

82 My favorite news story in the last week or so, were the reports that the rebels funded by the CIA were attacking the rebels funded by the DoD.

That sounds about right for the DC clown show.

Posted by: Hedley Lamarr at December 08, 2024 12:47 PM (UWRAE)

83 “Sherif Ali, so long as the Arabs fight tribe against tribe, so long will they be a little people, a silly people, greedy, barbarous, and cruel as you are.”
Posted by: Tom Servo.

American AF
@iAnonPatriot
BLM is now calling for more RI0TS,.

-
Over this guy.

https://is.gd/Nv1NYL

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Now With Peppermint Mocha! at December 08, 2024 12:48 PM (L/fGl)

84 So Assad is likely to be in Russia.

Does he have to request a tourist visa? Business? Diplomatic or asylum?
Posted by: Itinerant Alley Butcher at December 08, 2024 12:45 PM (/lPRQ)

Did he travel coach or business class?

Posted by: Dr Pork Chops & Bacons at December 08, 2024 12:48 PM (g8Ew8)

85 Between the collapse of all of their proxies, and the fear and cowardice that the Iranian leadership has displayed whenever the prospect of Real War with Israel has come up, I think the Iranian regime is at great risk of an internal overthrow. They’ve shown great weakness, and that is often the kiss of death for an unpopular dictatorial regime.
Posted by: Tom Servo at December 08, 2024 12:33 PM (W6hoT)
---
Usually you get even more radical guys, not moderates.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at December 08, 2024 12:49 PM (ZOv7s)

86 So now all the Syrian “refugees” in Europe will go home. Right? 🤣

Posted by: Its Go Time Donald at December 08, 2024 12:49 PM (SBwvE)

87 Regime change in Iraq and Afghanistan has yielded...what? Trying to be kingmakers in the Middle East has been a losing proposition for about 2,500 years, yet THIS TIME it will work because we have the correct people operating the levers of power?

The war in Stan and Iraq were intentionally fought in a way to minimize American gains and increase American costs.

Look at the guy we picked in 'Stan. He defended pedophilies, ran the drug trade, looted the country, AND had no actual in country support. Yes AQ's assassination of Masood loomed large but we picked Afghan version of a European bureaucrat to stand up as "our guy"

Posted by: 18-1 at December 08, 2024 12:49 PM (oZhjI)

88 34 On topic -

FAFO:

https://tinyurl.com/56muppar

Posted by: Biden's Dog sniffs a whole lotta malarkey, at December 08, 2024 12:22 PM (CflQn)
----
Who was this Patrick? An Irish activist helping the Arabs against the IDF?
When a person is killed in a military event it is seldom called murder, a term that has legal repercussions. If the person killed was the actual target then one may use 'assassinated', otherwise it's just 'killed'.

Posted by: Ciampino - too many good girls at the Rainbow Bridge at December 08, 2024 12:49 PM (i0xsb)

89 55 Can we ship them a lot of drag queens, and all of the members of Queers for Palestine? All of the pro-Palestinian protestors as well?

The preferred enemy of these stunningly brave and courageous creatures are American children of all ages.

Posted by: Auspex at December 08, 2024 12:49 PM (j4U/Z)

90 It seems as if all the old 70's style dictators are being swept into the dust bin of history.
Gaddafi was rousted out of a drain pipe and sodomized with a stick before being shot, Saddam was dug out of a spider hole then tried and hung like a criminal and now good old Bashar has been run out his palace and is on the run to places one can only imagine.

Posted by: Zombie Pol Pot, Government School Teacher at December 08, 2024 12:49 PM (R/m4+)

91

Or if Jimmy Carter hadn't rigged the Zimbabwe elections that put Mugabe in power and destroyed a thriving nation.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at December 08, 2024 12:50 PM (x0n13)

92 82 My favorite news story in the last week or so, were the reports that the rebels funded by the CIA were attacking the rebels funded by the DoD.

—

Fuckin’ eh!!!
- American Defense Contrators

Posted by: Its Go Time Donald at December 08, 2024 12:50 PM (SBwvE)

93 You can just as much wonder what would have happened had the Brits and CIA left Mosaddegh alone in the 50s.
Posted by: Biden's Dog sniffs a whole lotta malarkey, at December 08, 2024 12:46 PM (CflQn)
---
Red Iran?

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at December 08, 2024 12:50 PM (ZOv7s)

94 The Damascus Number 6 Dance is gonna be lit!

Posted by: Taggart at December 08, 2024 12:50 PM (Aqu9a)

95 These people are in denial of what's coming their way:

https://tinyurl.com/bdsn2bh3

Posted by: Biden's Dog sniffs a whole lotta malarkey, at December 08, 2024 12:51 PM (CflQn)

96 Before I celebrate this, I want to make sure the dictator will respect and encourage proper use of pronouns.

Posted by: Its Go Time Donald at December 08, 2024 12:52 PM (SBwvE)

97 It seems as if all the old 70's style dictators are being swept into the dust bin of history.
Gaddafi was rousted out of a drain pipe and sodomized with a stick before being shot, Saddam was dug out of a spider hole then tried and hung like a criminal and now good old Bashar has been run out his palace and is on the run to places one can only imagine.
Posted by: Zombie Pol Pot, Government School Teacher at December 08, 2024 12:49 PM (R/m4+)
---
And both countries are now shooting galleries and complete shitshows.

Getting rid of Gaddafi was one of the stupidest things the United States has ever done. We demonstrated in front of the world that we would not keep our word. There was no point in trying to make nice to us, because in the end, you get ass-raped.

Great move.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at December 08, 2024 12:52 PM (ZOv7s)

98 Just now at Gateway Pundit.

'Israeli Air Force Launches Widespread Strikes Across Syria, Targeting Weaponry at Key Military Sites
By Jim Hᴏft Dec. 8, 2024 11:00 am
Credit: Al Jazeera
The Israeli Air Force (IAF) conducted widespread airstrikes across Syria on Sunday, targeting critical military sites and weaponry deemed a direct threat to Israel’s security.

Israel claimed that these strategic strikes aimed to neutralize the potential transfer of advanced weaponry into the hands of terrorist factions and hostile entities.

According to reports from The Times of Israel, the Israeli strikes hit ammunition and weapons depots at the Khalkhalah airbase in Suwayda, military positions in the Daraa Governorate, and the Mezzeh airbase in Damascus.'

Posted by: Stateless at December 08, 2024 12:53 PM (jvJvP)

99 You can just as much wonder what would have happened had the Brits and CIA left Mosaddegh alone in the 50s.

Yeah that was one of the CIA's best operations. Back when they were at least somewhat on America's side.

A Soviet allied Iran during the cold war would have been the worst potential outcome in that part of the world.

The Iran the CIA created with that coup was a stable and prosperous regional power for the next 20ish years.

Posted by: 18-1 at December 08, 2024 12:53 PM (oZhjI)

100 Have they discovered what happened to Assad’s plane?
Posted by: Piper

Black holes! Black holes everywhere you look!

Posted by: Don LeMon at December 08, 2024 12:53 PM (L/fGl)

101 "Being America's enemy is often dangers, but being her ally is usually fatal."

- Dr. K, who watched it happen a bunch.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at December 08, 2024 12:53 PM (ZOv7s)

102 61 Have they discovered what happened to Assad’s plane?

Don't worry. We'll find it.

Posted by: CNN at December 08, 2024 12:53 PM (dg+HA)

103 Red Iran?
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at December 08, 2024 12:50 PM (ZOv7s)
-

Like other countries that turned red, they changed to other colors thereafter. What if, after the Berlin Wall came down...

My point is these what-if scenario outcomes are totally unpredictable.

Posted by: Biden's Dog sniffs a whole lotta malarkey, at December 08, 2024 12:53 PM (CflQn)

104 Posted by: Zombie Pol Pot, Government School Teacher at December 08, 2024 12:49 PM (R/m4+)

Make you wonder if they may have had information that could lead to the conviction of Hitlery Clitnon.

Posted by: Reforger at December 08, 2024 12:54 PM (xcIvR)

105 I wouldn't mind if we had a real Pax Americana. Not the halfassed clusterfuck we've been running for the last 75 years or so.

But it's too late for that, barring a straight up war with the Chinese which is likely coming no matter what.

And with no guarantee we'll win.

Anyway, a strong America First seems to be the best policy right now.

Posted by: naturalfake at December 08, 2024 12:54 PM (iJfKG)

106 The Iran the CIA created with that coup was a stable and prosperous regional power for the next 20ish years.
Posted by: 18-1 at December 08, 2024 12:53 PM (oZhjI)
---
Carter totally screwed the pooch on that one, undermining the Shah, then refusing to let the Marines defend our embassy, then botching the rescue mission.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at December 08, 2024 12:54 PM (ZOv7s)

107 I seriously doubt that Assad went back to Russia. When he made his plea to PDT to save him he threw both Russia and Iran under the bus. My bet is an African country with strong ties to China.

Posted by: Ben Had at December 08, 2024 12:55 PM (gGMRM)

108 The Iran the CIA created with that coup was a stable and prosperous regional power for the next 20ish years.
Posted by: 18-1 at December 08, 2024 12:53 PM (oZhjI)
-

Were the 20 years worth the next 50?

Impossible to measure.

Posted by: Biden's Dog sniffs a whole lotta malarkey, at December 08, 2024 12:55 PM (CflQn)

109 JJ - it was worse than that. They actually abandoned about 50 people in total or more, is what I read somewhere. It could have been a huge slaughter was the claim, and only prevented by heroic exertions on the part of many people.

Posted by: Common Tater at December 08, 2024 12:55 PM (1meqy)

110 Like other countries that turned red, they changed to other colors thereafter. What if, after the Berlin Wall came down...

My point is these what-if scenario outcomes are totally unpredictable.
Posted by: Biden's Dog sniffs a whole lotta malarkey, at December 08, 2024 12:53 PM (CflQn)
---
Putting the Soviet Union in charge of Iran's oil and in striking range of Saudi Arabia in the 1950s in nightmare fuel.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at December 08, 2024 12:56 PM (ZOv7s)

111 I wouldn't mind if we had a real Pax Americana. Not the halfassed clusterfuck we've been running for the last 75 years or so.

If you described what the world of 2024 looks like to the average American foreign policy guru back when the Berlin wall fell he wouldn't believe you.

From China owning enough American pols to get whatever it wanted, to our support of Anti-American jihadis, to our kowtowing to emasculated Europe these were all things that should not have happened based on where America was in the late 80s/early 90s.

Posted by: 18-1 at December 08, 2024 12:56 PM (oZhjI)

112 Assad is likely to be in Russia.

Does he have to request a tourist visa? Business? Diplomatic or asylum?
Posted by: Itinerant Alley Butcher at December 08, 2024 12:45 PM (/lPRQ)

Did he travel coach or business class?
Posted by: Dr Pork Chops & Bacons at December 08, 2024 12:48 PM (g8Ew

Dog crate.

Posted by: Mr Aspirin Factory, red heifer owner at December 08, 2024 12:56 PM (dR6yv)

113 The IDF staged a large number of air strikes in Syria yesterday; one of their targets was an armored column of Hezbollah vehicles attempting to escape from a rebel force and head back into Lebanon.
Posted by: Tom Servo at December 08, 2024 12:46 PM (W6hoT)

Heh.
A Highway of Death???
Oh noes!
I wonder if the media will play that up like in Desert Storm? We weren't done yet, but Bush backed off.
I doubt the Israelis will.

Posted by: Diogenes at December 08, 2024 12:56 PM (W/lyH)

114 These people are in denial of what's coming their way:

https://tinyurl.com/bdsn2bh3

Posted by: Biden's Dog sniffs a whole lotta malarkey, at December 08, 2024 12:51 PM (CflQn)

Yup.

There is no such thing as a moderate Islamist. They want all non-Muslims dead or subjugated.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at December 08, 2024 12:56 PM (d9fT1)

115 97 Getting rid of Gaddafi was one of the stupidest things the United States has ever done. Great move.
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd

The families of the Lockerbie victims and German GI attack beg to differ.

Posted by: Auspex at December 08, 2024 12:57 PM (j4U/Z)

116 Assad is an eye doctor. Wonder if he can set up a practice in suburban Detroit.

Posted by: Its Go Time Donald at December 08, 2024 12:57 PM (SBwvE)

117 From China owning enough American pols to get whatever it wanted, to our support of Anti-American jihadis, to our kowtowing to emasculated Europe these were all things that should not have happened based on where America was in the late 80s/early 90s.
Posted by: 18-1 at December 08, 2024 12:56 PM (oZhjI)
---
We have a Navy that cannot build or repair its ships and has captains that cannot steer them.

But we're very, very gay, so there's that.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at December 08, 2024 12:58 PM (ZOv7s)

118 So Libyan Bougaloo Pt 2

Posted by: Anna Puma at December 08, 2024 12:58 PM (2pkE8)

119 From China owning enough American pols to get whatever it wanted, to our support of Anti-American jihadis, to our kowtowing to emasculated Europe these were all things that should not have happened based on where America was in the late 80s/early 90s.
Posted by: 18-1 at December 08, 2024 12:56 PM (oZhjI)

Wonder what happened...

Posted by: Reforger at December 08, 2024 12:58 PM (xcIvR)

120 According to reports from The Times of Israel, the Israeli strikes hit ammunition and weapons depots at the Khalkhalah airbase in Suwayda, military positions in the Daraa Governorate, and the Mezzeh airbase in Damascus.'
Posted by: Stateless at December 08, 2024 12:53 PM (jvJvP)
-

At least 1 chemical factory was destroyed.

I find this most interesting. Use your imagination:

https://tinyurl.com/42e3ab3b

Posted by: Biden's Dog sniffs a whole lotta malarkey, at December 08, 2024 12:58 PM (CflQn)

121
Were the 20 years worth the next 50?

Yes. Because the odds the Berlin Wall falls peacefully in '89 are much lower if the Soviets control Iraq, Syria, AND Iran...and based on that quite possibly Egypt too. Hell, likely in this alternate '89 the Gulf States are within the Soviet Sphere and the western world has been in a depression for years.

Posted by: 18-1 at December 08, 2024 12:58 PM (oZhjI)

122 Persians are educated, artistic and hard working. I know a man here who owns a couple of successful restaurants here in Seattle. He was born and raised in Iran and escaped as a young man in the 70s to the US on a student visa. He worked hard, established himself and earned his citizenship. He despises illegal immigration. He loves Iran, not the government, of course. He sends money to his family in Iran and they hope to someday develop their own system of ruling themselves that doesn't not involve foreign benefactors.

I love hearing about his childhood in Iran. Yes, he probably romanticizes it, but those people deserve to figure it out without a foreign country pulling puppet strings. It would be bloody, perhaps, but a government not earned by the people who are governed is doomed to failure.

Posted by: nurse ratched, garbage at December 08, 2024 12:59 PM (Stoym)

123 I posted this on the ONT and the Tech thread but many probably missed it. It's very good but 'scary' to know the global reach of America's tentacles.

Did you know USAID doesn't mean US Aid?
For a terrifying eye opener listen to this: Rogan & Benz

https://youtu.be/rrJhQpvlkLA

Posted by: Ciampino - too many good boys at the Rainbow Bridge at December 08, 2024 12:59 PM (i0xsb)

124 Libya is a big trafficking area for “refugees” to move to Europe. Getting rid of Kadafi was part of that, if you believe that sort of thing has the hallmarks of an operation. Maybe not, though it is unclear what they would be doing differently if it weren’t.

Posted by: Common Tater at December 08, 2024 12:59 PM (1meqy)

125 Relax, everybody.

Sean Savett@NSC_Spox
President Biden and his team are closely monitoring the extraordinary events in Syria and staying in constant touch with regional partners.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Now With Peppermint Mocha! at December 08, 2024 12:59 PM (L/fGl)

126 Wonder what happened...

Two things stand out in my mind...

1) China started buying American pols in the 90s and leveraging businesses relationships to force the businesses to do what China wanted in return for being allowed to do business in China

2) Denis Hastert

Posted by: 18-1 at December 08, 2024 01:00 PM (oZhjI)

127 How many times have we seen this movie before? Bad guy Arab dictator is overthrown by CIA funded rebels. Who then are more despotic than the guy they overthrew.

You can set a watch by it.

And yet each time it happens the MSM and American government acts like it’s something to celebrate.

It’s hilarious.

Posted by: Its Go Time Donald at December 08, 2024 01:00 PM (SBwvE)

128 The families of the Lockerbie victims and German GI attack beg to differ.
Posted by: Auspex at December 08, 2024 12:57 PM (j4U/Z)
---
This is statecraft, not a morality play. That's how Jimmy Carter operated, sniffing with disdain that our allies weren't pure and sweet, and then undercutting them.

Gaddafi's fall has flooded Europe with Muslim rape gangs and enabled terrorist attacks that have killed for more people than one airliner and a disco.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at December 08, 2024 01:00 PM (ZOv7s)

129 Thx CBD. Back when ISIS was on the march and trying to take Syria their saying was "Christians to Beirut, Alawites to the he sea". Hamas and Hezbollah lovers scream genocide at Israel, let's see if they apply the same to heretic genocide. I somehow doubt it

Posted by: Smell the Glove at December 08, 2024 01:01 PM (O8bOp)

130 Lloyd

Talking the Kiwi Navy?

You mentioned steering.

Posted by: Anna Puma at December 08, 2024 01:01 PM (2pkE8)

131 The President of Turkey is the one to watch.

He has a modern, NATO class military, a strong economy by Middle East standards, unquenched power, and a climbing hostility to Israel.

Posted by: NaCly Dog at December 08, 2024 01:01 PM (u82oZ)

132
I love hearing about his childhood in Iran. Yes, he probably romanticizes it, but those people deserve to figure it out without a foreign country pulling puppet strings. It would be bloody, perhaps, but a government not earned by the people who are governed is doomed to failure.

Saddam and Assad are the models for what Iran under Mosaddegh would have looked like.

Posted by: 18-1 at December 08, 2024 01:01 PM (oZhjI)

133 Putting the Soviet Union in charge of Iran's oil and in striking range of Saudi Arabia in the 1950s in nightmare fuel.
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at December 08, 2024 12:56 PM (ZOv7s)
-

So would this have happened before or after the Iron Curtain fell?

Your guess is as good as mine.

And then America discovered energy independence and could have care less than they had to.

Endless scenarios.

Posted by: Biden's Dog sniffs a whole lotta malarkey, at December 08, 2024 01:02 PM (CflQn)

134 Talking the Kiwi Navy?

You mentioned steering.
Posted by: Anna Puma at December 08, 2024 01:01 PM (2pkE

---
No, but there does seem to be a clear trend.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at December 08, 2024 01:02 PM (ZOv7s)

135 Nurse is right. Persians are in a separate group from the insanity of the Arab world. The ones here, are ones that bolted the fuck out when the crazies took over Iran. Well, and their kids and grandkids. I’ve known many over the years and has the same experience.

Posted by: Its Go Time Donald at December 08, 2024 01:03 PM (SBwvE)

136 37
See #123

Posted by: Ciampino - too many good boys at the Rainbow Bridge at December 08, 2024 01:03 PM (i0xsb)

137 101
'"Being America's enemy is often dangers, but being her ally is usually fatal."

- Dr. K, who watched it happen a bunch.'

Yes. Watched it happen.

Posted by: DR. Henry Kissinger at December 08, 2024 01:03 PM (3wi/L)

138 I find this most interesting. Use your imagination:

https://tinyurl.com/42e3ab3b
Posted by: Biden's Dog sniffs a whole lotta malarkey

Passports burn real good.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Now With Peppermint Mocha! at December 08, 2024 01:03 PM (L/fGl)

139 Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd

Hillary led the Deep State in knee-capping Libya.
They followed that up with attempts on China, Russia (in Ukraine) and Germany. COVID-19 Wuhan was part of the China plan.

Posted by: NaCly Dog at December 08, 2024 01:03 PM (u82oZ)

140 Might watch soon, doing chores but Ben Hur is on.
Does besides a fantastic movie contain the best 15 minutes in cinematography ever made.

Posted by: Skip at December 08, 2024 01:03 PM (fwDg9)

141 I need a drink.

Posted by: Old Lady Emhoff at December 08, 2024 01:05 PM (dg+HA)

142 So would this have happened before or after the Iron Curtain fell?

Posted by: Biden's Dog sniffs a whole lotta malarkey, at December 08, 2024 01:02 PM (CflQn)
---
It would have happened if we'd let the Soviets take over Iran in the 1950s. You're the one saying that if only we'd kept our hands in our pockets, things would have been jolly.

Because Soviets never exploited anti-western sentiment before.

Weird how all these "nationalist" leaders of that period ended up inviting Soviet advisors in as soon as they took power.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at December 08, 2024 01:05 PM (ZOv7s)

143 Israel War Room
@IsraelWarRoom
8m
Former Syrian President Bashar al-Assad and his family have fled to Russia where they have been granted asylum, reports Russian state media.

Posted by: Biden's Dog sniffs a whole lotta malarkey, at December 08, 2024 01:06 PM (CflQn)

144 Let’s say the CIA never existed. Would the world have been a better worse place?

I dare say much much better.

Posted by: Its Go Time Donald at December 08, 2024 01:06 PM (SBwvE)

145 Yes. Watched it happen.
Posted by: DR. Henry Kissinger at December 08, 2024 01:03 PM (3wi/L)
---
He opposed cutting off aid to Vietnam, also opposed hanging the Shah out to dry.

He backed Pinochet and was in a position to do something about it.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at December 08, 2024 01:07 PM (ZOv7s)

146 Weird how all these "nationalist" leaders of that period ended up inviting Soviet advisors in as soon as they took power.

Castro should have been a learning experience for anyone paying attention.

The FNM cast him as a pure nationalist just trying to end the current corrupt government.

As soon as he came to power he tied himself to the Soviets, killed political dissidents, and started exporting communism everywhere he could.

Hell, kill Castro in the 50s and current Cuba is quite possibly the Las Vegas of the world with living standards close to the US's...

Posted by: 18-1 at December 08, 2024 01:07 PM (oZhjI)

147 No Mercy!

Posted by: Dr. Bone at December 08, 2024 01:08 PM (9zwan)

148 You're the one saying that if only we'd kept our hands in our pockets, things would have been jolly.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at December 08, 2024 01:05 PM (ZOv7s)
-

I never said jolly. I asked if it was worth it? Short term? Long term?

Posted by: Biden's Dog sniffs a whole lotta malarkey, at December 08, 2024 01:08 PM (CflQn)

149 Posted by: Its Go Time Donald

Thanks. He went back to Iran as an American citizen and married his childhood sweetheart and was able to bring her back. She is the most AMAZING storyteller. I have sat at a back table at his restaurant listening to her for hours.

Plus, the coffee is excellent.

Posted by: nurse ratched, garbage at December 08, 2024 01:08 PM (urHev)

150 This is statecraft, not a morality play.
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd

Reagan bombed Ghadaffi.

Attacking Americans and killing them merits extreme violence in return, and the Obama open door 'measured response' does not equal statecraft but stupidity.

Posted by: Auspex at December 08, 2024 01:08 PM (j4U/Z)

151 Hillary led the Deep State in knee-capping Libya.
They followed that up with attempts on China, Russia (in Ukraine) and Germany. COVID-19 Wuhan was part of the China plan.
Posted by: NaCly Dog at December 08, 2024 01:03 PM (u82oZ)
---
Absolutely, she was so full of swagger about knifing him the back.

Simple rules people, when an adversary approaches you and offers to switch sides and cooperate on the condition of sparing them, do NOT then knife them because no one will ever do that again.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at December 08, 2024 01:09 PM (ZOv7s)

152 Go east!

https://tinyurl.com/5n6t8su9

Posted by: Biden's Dog sniffs a whole lotta malarkey, at December 08, 2024 01:09 PM (CflQn)

153 Reagan bombed Ghadaffi.

Attacking Americans and killing them merits extreme violence in return, and the Obama open door 'measured response' does not equal statecraft but stupidity.
Posted by: Auspex at December 08, 2024 01:08 PM (j4U/Z)
---
Do you have any idea what happened? After we rolled into Iraq, Gaddafi approached us through Italy and arranged to cooperate, exposing all his terror networks, turning over his WMDs on condition that we spare him. We agreed.

And then Hillary and Obama overthrew him, proving American promises are worthless.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at December 08, 2024 01:11 PM (ZOv7s)

154 ---
This is statecraft, not a morality play. That's how Jimmy Carter operated, sniffing with disdain that our allies weren't pure and sweet, and then undercutting them.

===

Jimmah is the most incredible person in the history of ever. Just ask him, he'll tell you.

Well, he would if he could.

Posted by: 2009Refugee at December 08, 2024 01:12 PM (/XSJz)

155 She is a college professor and their son is an engineer at Boeing. Yeah, that doesn't mean as much as it used to, but they are NOT WOKE. Not even close.

Iranians get the representation they deserve. So far, the majority has not had the guts to look for anything better. But, it's THEIR BUSINESS.

Posted by: nurse ratched, garbage at December 08, 2024 01:12 PM (my2EF)

156 I never said jolly. I asked if it was worth it? Short term? Long term?
Posted by: Biden's Dog sniffs a whole lotta malarkey, at December 08, 2024 01:08 PM (CflQn)
---
It was the right move at the time.

As we have seen, it is possible to reverse gains with great speed if you're really, really stupid.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at December 08, 2024 01:12 PM (ZOv7s)

157 Well, he would if he could.
Posted by: 2009Refugee at December 08, 2024 01:12 PM (/XSJz)
---
He totally filled out his own ballot. Totally.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at December 08, 2024 01:13 PM (ZOv7s)

158 Hell, kill Castro in the 50s and current Cuba is quite possibly the Las Vegas of the world with living standards close to the US's...
Posted by: 18-1 at December 08, 2024 01:07 PM (oZhjI)

There’s a story that’s never covered. Cuba is gradually heading back to what it was before Columbus discovered it.

Posted by: Tom Servo at December 08, 2024 01:15 PM (fIpti)

159 Assad is likely to be in Russia.

Does he have to request a tourist visa? Business? Diplomatic or asylum?
Posted by: Itinerant Alley Butcher at December 08, 2024 12:45 PM (/lPRQ)

I'm sure he will enjoy being in a Russian unit attacking the Ukrainians next week. For about four hours before he's killed, one way or another.

Posted by: Gref at December 08, 2024 01:16 PM (aBgBM)

160 "I never said jolly. I asked if it was worth it? Short term? Long term?"

@"Biden's Dog sniffs a whole lotta malarkey" remind us again how the modern state of Israel came about.

Was it worth it? Short term? Long term?

Posted by: Richard Cranium at December 08, 2024 01:16 PM (GbaHc)

161 ....after four years of idiotic and chaotic foreign policy failures driven by the Biden/Obama wing of the Democrat party.

You forgot the idiotic and chaotic foreign policy failures of Bush 1, Bush 2, and Clinton. We could add Kennedy (VietNam), but that's stretching your memory, right?

Posted by: dad29 at December 08, 2024 01:17 PM (j99o1)

162 A lot more refugees seeking "asylum" in the heretofore civilized world

Posted by: Field Marshal Zhukov at December 08, 2024 01:17 PM (wBaIH)

163 Gaddafi's fall has flooded Europe with Muslim rape gangs and enabled terrorist attacks that have killed for more people than one airliner and a disco.
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at December 08, 2024 01:00 PM (ZOv7s)

Dictators fall all the time. European leaders caused the flood of illegals into Europe.

Posted by: Hedley Lamarr at December 08, 2024 01:17 PM (UWRAE)

164 The IDF strike on the Immigration and Passport office in Damascus was mostly peaceful.

Posted by: The media you used to watch at December 08, 2024 01:17 PM (dg+HA)

165 From China owning enough American pols to get whatever it wanted...

A lot to this. I suspect a lot of this influence is via the cartels. They had billions to buy pols way back in the 80's. This influence will play out over the next two years and we will see it.

Posted by: Diogenes at December 08, 2024 01:18 PM (W/lyH)

166 A couple years ago I watched an interview of Assad on the Tube that is You. I think it was some airhead western chick interviewing him. Can’t remember.

He seemed eminently sensible and lucid to me, for the most part. Didn’t say I liked the guy. Seemed pragmatic. I suppose “they” consider a stable regime ultmately destabilizing or something.

Everyone in Europe seemed to think “They don’t need NATO they need TITO” when it applies to the Balkans.

Posted by: Common Tater at December 08, 2024 01:19 PM (cUWlp)

167 Dictators fall all the time. European leaders caused the flood of illegals into Europe.
Posted by: Hedley Lamarr at December 08, 2024 01:17 PM (UWRAE)
---
Name one positive aspect of Gaddafi's overthrow.

I mean besides Clinton Family access to its oil and all the human and arms trafficking.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at December 08, 2024 01:19 PM (ZOv7s)

168 Dr. Otter: I think that this situation absolutely requires a really futile and stupid gesture be done on somebody's part!

Senator Bluto: We're just the guys to do it.

Posted by: US State Department at December 08, 2024 01:19 PM (Aqu9a)

169 160
Ha-HA!
Now this is an Israel bashing thread
Dick Head

No it isn't, fucker. Go away.

Posted by: Dr. Claw at December 08, 2024 01:20 PM (3wi/L)

170 You forgot the idiotic and chaotic foreign policy failures of Bush 1, Bush 2, and Clinton. We could add Kennedy (VietNam), but that's stretching your memory, right?
Posted by: dad29 at December 08, 2024 01:17 PM (j99o1)
---
Nothing they did approached the total destruction of the American strategic position under Obama and Biden.

We have not been this militarily weak since before WW II.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at December 08, 2024 01:21 PM (ZOv7s)

171 A couple years ago I watched an interview of Assad on the Tube that is You. I think it was some airhead western chick interviewing him. Can’t remember.

Amusingly you can find the same in western interviews with Saddam too during the 70s/early 80s.

Posted by: 18-1 at December 08, 2024 01:21 PM (oZhjI)

172 Climate Crazy Greta Thunberg Now Doing Anti-Israel Activism

-
Also, the Moon is trying to kill us!

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Now With Peppermint Mocha! at December 08, 2024 01:22 PM (L/fGl)

173 I always enjoyed hearing Rush say "foreign policy" with a thick Henry Kissinger accent.

I miss Rush.

Posted by: Quarter Twenty at December 08, 2024 01:22 PM (dg+HA)

174 Nothing they did approached the total destruction of the American strategic position under Obama and Biden.

You can definitely see the damage from those earlier leaders but I agree the Obama/Biden stuff is...astounding.

You look at foreign policy under those two and all you can say it that it was objectively engaged in weakening the United States.

Posted by: 18-1 at December 08, 2024 01:22 PM (oZhjI)

175 Hell, kill Castro in the 50s and current Cuba is quite possibly the Las Vegas of the world with living standards close to the US's...
Posted by: 18-1

Puerto Rico.

However, the Cubans do have better work ethics and business skills, so maybe you are right.

Posted by: Itinerant Alley Butcher at December 08, 2024 01:23 PM (/lPRQ)

176 170
'We have not been this militarily weak since before WW II.'

But a weakness with a different cause and resolution.

The problem isn't numbers. It's personnel and leadership.

Posted by: Dr. Claw at December 08, 2024 01:23 PM (3wi/L)

177
Cuba is gradually heading back to what it was before Columbus discovered it.
Posted by: Tom Servo at December 08, 2024 01:15 PM (fIpti)

__________

It's because of the US boycott!!

Posted by: Every Leftist at December 08, 2024 01:23 PM (dxSpM)

178 Came down to the golf club I belong to to watch the Giants (I know) . This morning they had Santa Claus brunch for the children. When I got here it had just ended and they put large plates of leftover bacon on the bar . Beer and bacon. Life is good

Posted by: Smell the Glove at December 08, 2024 01:23 PM (O8bOp)

179 @"Biden's Dog sniffs a whole lotta malarkey" remind us again how the modern state of Israel came about.

Was it worth it? Short term? Long term?
Posted by: Richard Cranium at December 08, 2024 01:16 PM (GbaHc)
-

Yup! Anything better than 2000 years of living among drek like your ilk.

Regards from Jerusalem, the eternal capital city of the Jewish nation.

Posted by: Biden's Dog sniffs a whole lotta malarkey, at December 08, 2024 01:24 PM (CflQn)

180 Greta has been a Hamas backer since a year ago

Posted by: Skip at December 08, 2024 01:24 PM (fwDg9)

181 Climate Crazy Greta Thunberg Now Doing Anti-Israel Activism

-
Also, the Moon is trying to kill us!
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Now With Peppermint Mocha! at December 08, 2024 01:22 PM (L/fGl)

I'm led to understand that she is a harsh mistress.

Posted by: Count de Monet at December 08, 2024 01:24 PM (Aqu9a)

182 A couple years ago I watched an interview of Assad on the Tube that is You. I think it was some airhead western chick interviewing him. Can’t remember.

He seemed eminently sensible and lucid to me, for the most part. Didn’t say I liked the guy. Seemed pragmatic. I suppose “they” consider a stable regime ultmately destabilizing or something.

Posted by: Common Tater at December 08, 2024 01:19 PM (cUWlp)
---
There's this weird fetish for democracy in societies that are incapable of supporting them. You get one man, one vote, one time.

Assad was a religious minority, so he drew a lot of power from other religious minorities, like Christians. Saddam Hussein was very similar. We should never have attacked Iraq without a plan to install a general and get out.

I fear Syria's Christians are soon going to populate metro Detroit rather than their ancestral homeland.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at December 08, 2024 01:24 PM (ZOv7s)

183 A lot of heavy hitters had their Casino resorts nationalized down there in Cuber.

They kept notes, too, I betcha. Castro (and presumably still being paid) famously never cashed any of the US government checks paid for the use of Gitmo. He had a nice Zenith Trans-Ocranic that had been air dropped for the invasion that he liked to use.

He was said to be a very charismatic individual and a lot of fun. He’d take people free diving on his boat, he was really good and could dive to incredible depths in ocean and hold his breath for an impressive amount of time. Monsters can be very charming and engaging. Always keep this in mind.

Posted by: Common Tater at December 08, 2024 01:25 PM (cUWlp)

184 Wilson is, as with virtually everything else, partly to blame. He shifted the focus of US foreign policy from national interest to an ideological crusade to make the world safe for democracy.

Posted by: Biff Pocoroba at December 08, 2024 01:25 PM (Dm8we)

185 I'm led to understand that she is a harsh mistress.
Posted by: Count de Monet at December 08, 2024 01:24 PM
---
Golfclap.

Posted by: Quarter Twenty at December 08, 2024 01:25 PM (dg+HA)

186 Eva Vlaardingerbroek
@EvaVlaar
A massive crowd of “Allahu Akbar” shouting Syrians has gathered in Utrecht today next to The Netherlands’ tallest Church tower.

Since they’re all so overjoyed, I’d say we put them straight on a one-way flight back home to Syria.👋🏻

https://tinyurl.com/4a7vd7ex

Posted by: redridinghood at December 08, 2024 01:26 PM (NpAcC)

187 Came down to the golf club I belong to to watch the Giants (I know) . This morning they had Santa Claus brunch for the children. When I got here it had just ended and they put large plates of leftover bacon on the bar . Beer and bacon. Life is good
Posted by: Smell the Glove at December 08, 2024 01:23 PM (O8bOp)

Sounds like making a birdie on the 19th hole!

Posted by: Diogenes at December 08, 2024 01:26 PM (W/lyH)

188 fear Syria's Christians are soon going to populate metro Detroit rather than their ancestral homeland.
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at December 08, 2024 01:24 PM (ZOv7s)
-

The ones that get out alive.

Posted by: Biden's Dog sniffs a whole lotta malarkey, at December 08, 2024 01:26 PM (CflQn)

189 But a weakness with a different cause and resolution.

The problem isn't numbers. It's personnel and leadership.
Posted by: Dr. Claw at December 08, 2024 01:23 PM (3wi/L)
---
Obviously, leadership is key. Bad leadership is almost impossible to overcome. Not only is our military undermanned, its demoralized and divided by DEI nonsense.

Our strategic position overall is worse than it was in 1939.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at December 08, 2024 01:26 PM (ZOv7s)

190 Jimmah is the most incredible person in the history of ever. Just ask him, he'll tell you.

Well, he would if he could.
Posted by: 2009Refugee

Satan is getting his pitchforks ready and heating up the tines.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Now With Peppermint Mocha! at December 08, 2024 01:26 PM (L/fGl)

191 “Leftover Bacon”

Um … Sure, Jan

Posted by: Common Tater at December 08, 2024 01:27 PM (cUWlp)

192 I'm led to understand that she is a harsh mistress.
Posted by: Count de Monet at December 08, 2024 01:24 PM (Aqu9a)

Greta needs a harsh mistress.

Posted by: Tom Servo at December 08, 2024 01:28 PM (W6hoT)

193 Eva Vlaardingerbroek
@EvaVlaar
A massive crowd of “Allahu Akbar” shouting Syrians has gathered in Utrecht today next to The Netherlands’ tallest Church tower.

Since they’re all so overjoyed, I’d say we put them straight on a one-way flight back home to Syria.👋🏻

https://tinyurl.com/4a7vd7ex
Posted by: redridinghood at December 08, 2024 01:26 PM (NpAcC)

Use metal-skinned gliders to enforce the one-way travel.

Posted by: Hour of the Wolf - Remember Vic and VNN! at December 08, 2024 01:28 PM (VNX3d)

194 Wilson is, as with virtually everything else, partly to blame. He shifted the focus of US foreign policy from national interest to an ideological crusade to make the world safe for democracy.
Posted by: Biff Pocoroba at December 08, 2024 01:25 PM (Dm8we)
---
He also put national self-determination forefront, encouraging every separatist to dream of their tiny, indefensible homeland.

If's funny how the supposedly oppressed member states of Austria-Hungary are still palling around with Habsburgs.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at December 08, 2024 01:29 PM (ZOv7s)

195 >>>> These people are in denial of what's coming their way:

https://tinyurl.com/bdsn2bh3
Posted by: Biden's Dog sniffs a whole lotta malarkey, at December 08, 2024 12:51 PM (CflQn)
*******
Yeah, I’m guessing that Christmas tree will be coming down and that church will be a mosque pretty soon.

Posted by: Rufus T. Firefly at December 08, 2024 01:29 PM (1JHoW)

196 Woodie “He Kept Us Out Of War” Wilson who upon being re-elected in a close election that came down to a few swing states (sound familiar?)

within a month of taking office reversed course and got the US and Congress in a declared war in April 1917

That guy?

Posted by: Common Tater at December 08, 2024 01:30 PM (cUWlp)

197 If's funny how the supposedly oppressed member states of Austria-Hungary are still palling around with Habsburgs.

Hungary has better political leadership then Austria right now.

Be interesting to see if Romania as well elects the sane guy again with the "do over" or elects some EUnuch

Posted by: 18-1 at December 08, 2024 01:30 PM (oZhjI)

198 What are the odds that with the overthrow of the regime, a designated terrorist group taking over, results in U.S. involvement, and a pipeline that's been long talked about and attempted? Just thinking out loud. Hoping not and that we just leave them to schwack each other like the national past time...

Posted by: Sua Sponte at December 08, 2024 01:30 PM (ppKip)

199 195
'I’m guessing that Christmas tree will be coming down and that church will be a mosque pretty soon.'

The hell of it is: If we can see it, why can't they?

Posted by: Dr. Claw at December 08, 2024 01:31 PM (3wi/L)

200
Accepting Ghaddaffi turning is one thing, keeping a promise to him was another. He was a killer of Americans, and a muzzie, which from where I stand is about the same thing.

Nobody should trust American foreign policy. We have interests, not allies. Entanglements be damned.

Retribution is a deterrent. Kill one of us and expect the same.

Posted by: Auspex at December 08, 2024 01:32 PM (j4U/Z)

201 Hungary has better political leadership then Austria right now.

Be interesting to see if Romania as well elects the sane guy again with the "do over" or elects some EUnuch
Posted by: 18-1 at December 08, 2024 01:30 PM (oZhjI)
---
Austria is hobbled by the specter of OMG NAZIS!!1!

This is being used in Germany to try to thwart the AfD.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at December 08, 2024 01:32 PM (ZOv7s)

202 The videos of Assad’s regime shoving people into trenches and shooting them - real?

Posted by: Piper at December 08, 2024 01:33 PM (pZEOD)

203 Nobody should trust American foreign policy. We have interests, not allies. Entanglements be damned.

Retribution is a deterrent. Kill one of us and expect the same.

Posted by: Auspex at December 08, 2024 01:32 PM (j4U/Z)
---
What a completely self-defeating grand strategy.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at December 08, 2024 01:33 PM (ZOv7s)

204
Climate Crazy Greta Thunberg Now Doing Anti-Israel Activism

_________

An autistic child abused by her grandstanding parents. I've always felt a little sorry for her.

Posted by: Every Leftist at December 08, 2024 01:33 PM (dxSpM)

205 That Syriala place fell to Tewrrorists because oof Trump winning the Us electran. If Kamalala Harris wood has won this wood nots be happening !!!!!!!!!!

Wise Up peeple thats voted four Trump !!!!!!!

Posted by: Mary Clogginstein from Brattleboro,Vt at December 08, 2024 01:33 PM (0/Ssx)

206 I wander through here most evenings. If my offer gains traction I will soon know. Hope it does.
Posted by: Altaria Pilgram at December 08, 2024 03:14 AM (e+6P0)

True, that. We should probably enter into a new era of colonialism. Maybe call it "protectoratism", instead. Put all muslim countries under "protection" of a colonial power. Even Saudi Arabia. Saner ones get some degree of home rule; the complete basket cases get run entirely by the protecting Power.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at December 08, 2024 01:34 PM (EElO8)

207 As mean as the Assad's were Syria was stable and one of the more livable ME countries UNTIL Hillary pulled her stunt in Libya which they (the color revolution team) rolled over into Egypt and Syria.

Russia (yeah, really) had been a stabilizing factor against radical Muslim aggression but now the Ukraine has depleted them so much that bugging out is their only option.

Posted by: Braenyard - some absent friends are more equal than others at December 08, 2024 01:34 PM (GKLAN)

208 Climate Crazy Greta Thunberg Now Doing Anti-Israel Activism

_________

An autistic child abused by her grandstanding parents. I've always felt a little sorry for her.
Posted by: Every Leftist at December 08, 2024 01:33 PM (dxSpM)
---
Well, the climate thing wasn't working because she's too old to play the photogenic wise-beyond-her-age child.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at December 08, 2024 01:34 PM (ZOv7s)

209 anybody else in here remember when we started meeting a whole lot of 'Persians' showing up in the late 70's through mid 80's?

Posted by: DanMan at December 08, 2024 01:35 PM (8uzBS)

210 196
'got the US and Congress in a declared war in April 1917'

We helped.

Posted by: Der Kriegsmarine at December 08, 2024 01:35 PM (3wi/L)

211 Kissinger argued that the one benefit of Wilson's shift of focus from national interest to ideology was that it sustained a greater commitment to opposing the USSR during the cold war. That is, would the Marshall Plan and NATO have happened if we had been focused purely on national interest.

Posted by: Biff Pocoroba at December 08, 2024 01:35 PM (Dm8we)

212
Off sock

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at December 08, 2024 01:35 PM (dxSpM)

213
"An autistic child abused by her grandstanding parents. I've always felt a little sorry for her."

Greta's face has all of the hall marks of FAS, fetal alcohol syndrome.

Posted by: Speller at December 08, 2024 01:36 PM (pSotA)

214 @NiohBerg
Mass celebrations happening in Sweden right now.

Their side has won, so I expect them all to move back to Syria shortly. No need to remain in Sweden any longer. Time to rebuild your homeland!

https://tinyurl.com/4c4rpp2v

Posted by: redridinghood at December 08, 2024 01:36 PM (NpAcC)

215 Maybe Ray Epps is headed to Damascus to help fire up the crowd . . .

Posted by: Count de Monet at December 08, 2024 01:36 PM (Aqu9a)

216 Columbia University Students Launch Intifada Newspaper

-
All the Jews Are Fit to Get!

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Now With Peppermint Mocha! at December 08, 2024 01:36 PM (L/fGl)

217 Russia (yeah, really) had been a stabilizing factor against radical Muslim aggression but now the Ukraine has depleted them so much that bugging out is their only option.
Posted by: Braenyard - some absent friends are more equal than others at December 08, 2024 01:34 PM (GKLAN)
---
I don't think it's Ukraine, it's that their position is strategically untenable. Russia isn't like us - rich and stupid enough to spend thousands of lives for years without thinking about it.

Even absent Ukraine, they never committed large levels of force to Syria. A lot of their initial intervention was naval support.

When we used to wargame it, Russian intervention did give Assad a shot in the arm, but it wasn't enough to win on its own. In several games, the Assad player actually blew it by overextending.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at December 08, 2024 01:38 PM (ZOv7s)

218 206 I wander through here most evenings. If my offer gains traction I will soon know. Hope it does.
Posted by: Altaria Pilgrim
----

Your offer won't gain any traction. F3 (search) says it doesn't exist.

Posted by: Braenyard - some absent friends are more equal than others at December 08, 2024 01:38 PM (GKLAN)

219 200

'Accepting Ghaddaffi turning is one thing, keeping a promise to him was another. '

We basically shot him after he threw down his gun and surrendered.
You don't think future bad guys sitting on the fence won't go: "Shit. Whatever I do, I am not surrendering to the Americans"

Posted by: Dr. Claw at December 08, 2024 01:38 PM (3wi/L)

220 So a secular Arab government has been overthrown by an Islamists? This will lead to the extermination of Christians, Alawites, and will lead to refugee influxes into Europe accelerating its islamification.

But Israel has one less enemy for the time being which is all that the Israel firsters care about.

Posted by: Eric Dale at December 08, 2024 01:39 PM (1nXRn)

221 anybody else in here remember when we started meeting a whole lot of 'Persians' showing up in the late 70's through mid 80's?
Posted by: DanMan

Yeah. Blue velvet curtains and gold rods were the trend back then.

Posted by: Itinerant Alley Butcher at December 08, 2024 01:40 PM (/lPRQ)

222 Kissinger argued that the one benefit of Wilson's shift of focus from national interest to ideology was that it sustained a greater commitment to opposing the USSR during the cold war. That is, would the Marshall Plan and NATO have happened if we had been focused purely on national interest.
Posted by: Biff Pocoroba at December 08, 2024 01:35 PM (Dm8we)
---
True, but if we had left the monarchies intact, it would have been difficult for WW II to even start. Instead of Hindenburg, you would have had a Kaiser to serve as a rallying point against it. An intact Austria-Hungary would have made both the Sudetenland Crisis and the Anschluss impossible.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at December 08, 2024 01:40 PM (ZOv7s)

223 I think we have some US Forces operating out of Syria ???

Any word on this possibility?

Some of those weapons the Rebels used look very familiar to those abandoned in Afghanistan stan?

Probably just a coincidence .......

CNN Breaking News..... "Trump Lied and Syria fell to the Terrorists". No comments from Sleepy Joe as of 1300 EST.

Posted by: Franklin Stein at December 08, 2024 01:41 PM (VDY1a)

224 What a completely self-defeating grand strategy.
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd

George Washington didn't think so.

Posted by: Auspex at December 08, 2024 01:42 PM (j4U/Z)

225 Having done no research and not planning to is the imbecilic media pro Assad or anti.?

Posted by: Northernlurker , Maple Syrup MAGA at December 08, 2024 01:42 PM (RRNPb)

226 I Nominate "Tony Blinkin" for the Nobel Peace Prize !!!!!!!!!

Posted by: Franklin Stein at December 08, 2024 01:42 PM (VDY1a)

227 That's my theory that Jimmy is afraid to meet his maker

Posted by: Skip at December 08, 2024 01:43 PM (fwDg9)

228 George Washington didn't think so.
Posted by: Auspex at December 08, 2024 01:42 PM (j4U/Z)
---
Oh, it was his policy that American promises were worthless? I don't recall seeing that.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at December 08, 2024 01:44 PM (ZOv7s)

229 @222 an intact Austria -Hungary was impossible by 1918. The different minorities were sick of the Hapsburgs and there was no way to keep it together.. if the Germans kept the Kaiser the war would have continued

Posted by: Smell the Glove at December 08, 2024 01:44 PM (O8bOp)

230
Woodie “He Kept Us Out Of War” Wilson who upon being re-elected in a close election that came down to a few swing states (sound familiar?)

Teddy had a Great White Fleet.

Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at December 08, 2024 01:44 PM (63Dwl)

231 219 200 'Accepting Ghaddaffi turning is one thing, keeping a promise to him was another. '

We basically shot him after he threw down his gun and surrendered.
You don't think future bad guys sitting on the fence won't go: "Shit. Whatever I do, I am not surrendering to the Americans"
Posted by: Dr. Claw Carlos Salinas de Gortari
---

[We are] So far from God and so close to America
_President, Carlos Salinas de Gortari. Mexico, 1988 to 1994

Posted by: Braenyard - some absent friends are more equal than others at December 08, 2024 01:46 PM (GKLAN)

232 an intact Austria -Hungary was impossible by 1918. The different minorities were sick of the Hapsburgs and there was no way to keep it together.. if the Germans kept the Kaiser the war would have continued
Posted by: Smell the Glove at December 08, 2024 01:44 PM (O8bOp)
---
The war could and should have ended before 1918, but Wilson wanted the total destruction of the monarchies and the European state system. He also promised (there's that word again!) a treaty to defend France.

As to the Kaiser, the proposal was for Wilhelm II to abdicate and his infant grandson be crowned under a regency council.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at December 08, 2024 01:47 PM (ZOv7s)

233 196
within a month of taking office reversed course and got the US and Congress in a declared war in April 1917

That guy?

Posted by: Common Tater at December 08, 2024 01:30 PM (cUWlp)
----
Well had to share the 'Spanish' Flu right? So America was the origin of that 1917 flu and also Covid (in terms of money and manpower)?

Posted by: Ciampino - too many good boys at the Rainbow Bridge at December 08, 2024 01:48 PM (i0xsb)

234 Here we go, everyone--meet the new boss, same as the old boss, only difference for a short while is one of scale.

They'll get wound up to speed quick enough.

Posted by: IRONGRAMPA at December 08, 2024 01:48 PM (hKoQL)

235 Teddy had a Great White Fleet.
Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr
___________

Some screwed up ships there. We took to mounting the secondary 8" guns on top of main 12" turrets.

Posted by: Biff Pocoroba at December 08, 2024 01:49 PM (Dm8we)

236 Introducing Rolo-Cop:

https://tinyurl.com/wfdtrj5k

Posted by: Biden's Dog sniffs a whole lotta malarkey, at December 08, 2024 01:49 PM (CflQn)

237 Woodie “He Kept Us Out Of War” Wilson who upon being re-elected in a close election that came down to a few swing states (sound familiar?)

Teddy had a Great White Fleet.
Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at December 08, 2024 01:44 PM (63Dwl)
---
Fun fact: Obama was the first president since Wilson to be re-elected while carrying fewer states.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at December 08, 2024 01:49 PM (ZOv7s)

238 Finally we'll get some answers!

Disclose.tv@disclosetv
JUST IN - Biden to address the nation on Syria.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Now With Peppermint Mocha! at December 08, 2024 01:50 PM (L/fGl)

239 Some screwed up ships there. We took to mounting the secondary 8" guns on top of main 12" turrets.
Posted by: Biff Pocoroba at December 08, 2024 01:49 PM (Dm8we)
---
Pre-dreadnoughts are AWESOME. This is not debatable.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at December 08, 2024 01:50 PM (ZOv7s)

240 I am available to fly to the Middle East to help fix this problem right now !!

AF-2 is loaded with Mogan David Blackberry Wine and sitting on the Tarmac at Andrews with engines running ......

Cackle.... Cackle....... Cackle.........

Posted by: Kamal Harris at December 08, 2024 01:51 PM (A2iSa)

241 Some screwed up ships there. We took to mounting the secondary 8" guns on top of main 12" turrets.
Posted by: Biff Pocoroba at December 08, 2024 01:49 PM (Dm8we)
---
Pre-dreadnoughts are AWESOME. This is not debatable.
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd
___________

Have you seen the Drachinefel video on the French pre-dreadnoughts? "When hotels go to war."

Posted by: Biff Pocoroba at December 08, 2024 01:53 PM (Dm8we)

242 Cackle.... Cackle....... Cackle.........
Posted by: Kamal Harris at December 08, 2024 01:51 PM (A2iSa)
---
"I do not order you to bring me a drink, I order you to get me drunk!"

Posted by: Mustafa Kamala Harris at December 08, 2024 01:54 PM (ZOv7s)

243 Introducing Rolo-Cop:

https://tinyurl.com/wfdtrj5k
Posted by: Biden's Dog sniffs a whole lotta malarkey

Reminiscent of the giant beach ball guards in The Prisoner.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Now With Peppermint Mocha! at December 08, 2024 01:54 PM (L/fGl)

244 Have you seen the Drachinefel video on the French pre-dreadnoughts? "When hotels go to war."
Posted by: Biff Pocoroba at December 08, 2024 01:53 PM (Dm8we)
---
There are a couple of guys who go into them. Ship design was seriously lit. Everyone must have been chugging absinthe.

Posted by: Mustafa Kamala Harris at December 08, 2024 01:55 PM (ZOv7s)

245
Introducing Rolo-Cop:

https://tinyurl.com/wfdtrj5k
Posted by: Biden's Dog sniffs a whole lotta malarkey

Reminiscent of the giant beach ball guards in The Prisoner.
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks

Rover!

Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at December 08, 2024 01:56 PM (63Dwl)

246 What would a President Emhoff do?

Posted by: Sounds like an SNL skit at December 08, 2024 01:57 PM (dg+HA)

247 Well, I've vented enough spleen. Time to get some reading in.

Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at December 08, 2024 01:57 PM (ZOv7s)

248 Trump after (close) shave:

https://tinyurl.com/453rbsun

Posted by: Biden's Dog sniffs a whole lotta malarkey, at December 08, 2024 01:57 PM (CflQn)

249 What would a President Emhoff do?
Posted by: Sounds like an SNL skit at December 08, 2024 01:57 PM (dg+HA)
-

Impregnate and slap Greta.

Posted by: Biden's Dog sniffs a whole lotta malarkey, at December 08, 2024 01:58 PM (CflQn)

250 What would a President Emhoff do?
Posted by: Sounds like an SNL skit at December 08, 2024 01:57 PM (dg+HA)
-

Impregnate and slap Greta.
Posted by: Biden's Dog sniffs a whole lotta malarkey, at December 08, 2024 01:58 PM (CflQn)
-

Oh. Not the "First Gentleman."

Nevermind.

Posted by: Biden's Dog sniffs a whole lotta malarkey, at December 08, 2024 01:59 PM (CflQn)

251 208 Well, the climate thing wasn't working because she's too old to play the photogenic wise-beyond-her-age child.
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd at December 08, 2024 01:34 PM (ZOv7s)

Jew-baiting never goes out of style. 5 millennia and still going strong.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at December 08, 2024 02:00 PM (x0n13)

252 We have a 1WP NOOD

Posted by: Skip at December 08, 2024 02:01 PM (fwDg9)

253 Jew-baiting never goes out of style. 5 millennia and still going strong.
Posted by: J.J. Sefton at December 08, 2024 02:00 PM (x0n13)
-

Closer 4 millennia.

Posted by: Biden's Dog sniffs a whole lotta malarkey, at December 08, 2024 02:02 PM (CflQn)

254 Trump after (close) shave:

https://tinyurl.com/453rbsun
Posted by: Biden's Dog sniffs a whole lotta malarkey,

DR Jill giving Trump the hairy eyeball.

Posted by: Itinerant Alley Butcher at December 08, 2024 02:02 PM (/lPRQ)

255 248 Trump after (close) shave:

https://tinyurl.com/453rbsun

Posted by: Biden's Dog sniffs a whole lotta malarkey, at December 08, 2024 01:57 PM (CflQn)

Heh.

Posted by: javems at December 08, 2024 02:03 PM (8I4hW)

256 Oh, it was his policy that American promises were worthless? I don't recall seeing that.
Posted by: Ace-Endorsed Author A.H. Lloyd

American interests are not the interests of foreign powers. G. Washington explicitly warned against such entanglements.
Nobody believes the promises of politicians to be honest. Deals with those from other lands especially.

American "Grand Strategy" does fit nicely with the United Nations world view, doesn't it? Forking over enormous sums dwarfing the contributions of all other nations to join with us on our moral crusades has certainly worked well all over the world, hasn't it?

Bags full of cash to Afghan warlords sure made our promises worth something.

Posted by: Auspex at December 08, 2024 02:04 PM (j4U/Z)

257
Obama is the Dims' very own Sportin' Life.

Posted by: Krebs v Carnot: Epic Battle of the Cycling Stars (TM) at December 08, 2024 02:08 PM (xG4kz)

258 Retribution is a deterrent. Kill one of us and expect the same.

Posted by: Auspex at December 08, 2024 01:32 PM (j4U/Z)

It's a much better deterrent when it is applied within days or weeks of the offense that earned it. Gaddafi should have been taken out with an ICBM within days of the Lockerbie bombing.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at December 08, 2024 02:09 PM (EElO8)

259 The reason it was called “Spanish Flu” was because Spanish newspapers were the only publication talking about it at the time. Wartime censorship.

Epidemiologists differ somewhat on the origins. There is no question it spread far and wide at Ft. Riley, Kansas. Some researchers find evidence of the virus in Iowa earlier.

Others point towards the East, where they always arise historically, due to the nature of migratory waterfowl (whom borders mean little). “Gain of Function” is basically only an accelerator of this phenomenon and does not require sophisticated laboratory. Viruses jumping back and forth between species, becoming transmissible. Bad stuff arises.

Posted by: Common Tater at December 08, 2024 02:18 PM (cUWlp)

260 This all goes back to Jimmy Carter: History's Greatest Monster.

Posted by: Grump928(C) at December 08, 2024 02:19 PM (kLxtU)

261 Monsters can be very charming and engaging. Always keep this in mind.
Posted by: Common Tater at December 08, 2024 01:25 PM (cUWlp)

Right?
- Bill Clinton

Posted by: Its Go Time Donald at December 08, 2024 02:20 PM (SBwvE)

262 Not only the certainty of punishment, the celerity of punishment.

Noticed this in the .mil, they put up with a LOT of BS, and things took forever, EXCEPT when some clown thought he was all that and a bat of chips.

They would move an article 15 in a few hours. Setting an example, as they say.

Posted by: Common Tater at December 08, 2024 02:21 PM (cUWlp)

263 Assad wasn’t a bad guy. The civil war was started so that Israel could flood Europe with refugees while continue destabilizing the Middle East.

Before you call me an antisemite, they bragged about it in their newspapers.

Posted by: Hank at December 08, 2024 02:22 PM (3aNof)

264 Or put another way, I only saw the military institution wise move fast if either A. They want to help you greatly Or B. They really want to clean your clock

Posted by: Common Tater at December 08, 2024 02:23 PM (cUWlp)

265 Assad wasn’t a bad guy.

I stopped reading here.

Posted by: Grump928(C) at December 08, 2024 02:23 PM (kLxtU)

266 WE are innit now...."US B52s, stealth jets and other fighters strike ISIS positions in Syria Sunday Afternoon"

Posted by: birddog at December 08, 2024 02:47 PM (GbZG2)

267 WE are innit now...."US B52s, stealth jets and other fighters strike ISIS positions in Syria Sunday Afternoon"
Posted by: birddog

I heard it was B-52, F-15, and A-10s....

Give this one 72 hrs.

Posted by: Itinerant Alley Butcher at December 08, 2024 03:22 PM (/lPRQ)

268 @169 Pull your head out of your ass.

I don't really care about Israel one way or the other. I care even less about the Palestinian area and those living in it. From my perspective, the Israelis have a cancer living next door and haven't decided to do the needful to get rid of it.

I don't care if they do the needful or if they don't. It's their problem, not mine.

But when someone who is living in a place that came about due to major power meddling asks if major power meddling somewhere else in the area was worth it, don't you think a question worth asking is if that someone thought it was worth it their case?

Posted by: Richard Cranium at December 08, 2024 03:52 PM (GbaHc)

269 I hope Russia is good for my Basher. Better than racist US

Posted by: Oliver Willis at December 08, 2024 04:10 PM (uXhXH)

270 Young Greta should be processed like a holiday ham.

Indeed, she deserves a masculine touch not reminiscent of her father or father-figures.

Posted by: Dr. Bone at December 08, 2024 04:15 PM (9zwan)

271 The Middle East will only normalize after they have a complete total blood drain war like Europe has had, 30 to 50 million need to perish

Posted by: Matthew at December 08, 2024 04:20 PM (OdsgZ)

272 31
I wonder, what would have happened if we hadn't pulled the plug on the Shah? He certainly wasn't any worse than the other thugs there at the time or later.
Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at December 08, 2024 12:22 PM (dxSpM)

The more interesting question is what would have happened had the CIA not toppled Mossadegh in 1953, ending Iran's nascent democracy?

(I honestly don't have a clue as to the answer to that question. I just know that the CIA coup against Mossadegh was a pivot point irrevocably changing things in a way that had negative consequences. More negative than if we had left in place? Above. My. Paygrade.)

Posted by: Schroedinger's Cat Wears the Emperor's New Clothes at December 08, 2024 04:52 PM (5Pci1)

273 If you still think ISIS wasn’t a creation of the CIA/State Dept , already in place, at the beginning of the last Trump win then you are a fool.

Posted by: OldSarg at December 08, 2024 07:01 PM (j0etA)

274 "I always laugh when the media would call some one or some group a moderate Islamist. I'd laugh and laugh."

So right! I worked in the ME for a while during a relative calm period when they didn't outright hate Americans. Even the western educated Arabs that spoke perfect American English from having spent a long time in the US could drop into violent "Allahu Akbar!" rage at some seemingly minor Sunni/Shia conflict news.

Also, I use a form of the article header when shutting down snide leftist, "Be careful what you wish for. The law of Unintended Consequences can be a real bitch!" Living in their bubbles, they no longer seem capable of seeing glaring flaws in their pronouncements.

Posted by: madmike at December 08, 2024 07:17 PM (OHJ6w)

275 We are fools to think we can or should control other countries destinies. We have enough trouble here.

Posted by: jimmymcnulty at December 08, 2024 08:34 PM (vvIbr)

276 20 years, many lives and billions of dollars to replace the Taliban with the Taliban!

Posted by: leber at December 08, 2024 09:42 PM (ZhESL)

277 I've said this 100 times. If Assad were leading a rebel group, he'd have 100% US support.

Posted by: Steve O at December 08, 2024 09:57 PM (iY2C2)

278 I waѕ recommended this bⅼog by my cousin. I am not surе whether this post is written by him as nobodү else know such detailed
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Posted by: disclosed at December 10, 2024 05:09 AM (VP/x9)

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