The Morning Rant: Minimalist Edition

Unionism in America is schizophrenic. The reality of the collective bargaining scheme is that any strike will decrease total compensation very quickly, so it is incumbent upon the union hierarchy to settle quickly. But the assumption of a quick settlement shrinks the power of the strike. Unlike Europe, where strikes are built into the process, most American union members are unprepared for the financial burden of a strike, in particular during times like today...stagnant wage growth and high inflation.

And the political considerations are at least as significant. The union bosses are traditionally hard-line Democrats, but the rank & file is decidedly less so. That tradition includes selling union votes in return for a compliant government during negotiations, but the disconnect between the Democrat party and the workers has never been more profound than today. The Obama/Biden/Harris cabal is savagely opposed to most American cultural traditions, and union members have noticed. Add in its anti-business stance, support for crackpot technologies like EVs that are guaranteed to shrink the automotive industrial base in America, and sheer, unbridled insanity like transgenderism, and it is no wonder that the Harris campaign is just a bit concerned!

Kamala's Camp Must Be Having Heartburn Over This CNN Segment

Sometimes there are data points that just jump off the screen and should set off sirens. Alright, this is union households, this is the Democratic margin in the presidential election. It ain't what it used to be.
You go back to 1992, Bill Clinton won that union vote by 30 points. Hillary Clinton only won it by 12 points back in 2016. That was the lowest mark for a Democrat since 1984, Mondale versus Reagan. But look at where Kamala Harris is today. She is only leading by nine points. That would be the worst Democratic performance in a generation. Ten points off the mark of Joe Biden, who of course won four years ago as sort of that union guy, "Union Joe," right? He won by 19 points. She's ten points off his mark, and the worst in a generation if this, in fact, holds.

Harris exudes the persona of a fundamentally unserious person, and Americans notice that sort of stuff. The giggly-retard tone is offputting when Americans are worried about where their next paycheck is coming from and whether it will be enough to buy a week's worth of groceries.

The content-free gibberish about building a new economy may sound nice to the slim-hipped hipsters in Brooklyn and Cambridge and Palo Alto, but the jobs that most Americans need and want are conspicuously absent in her nonsense.

Donald Trump understands the anger of the American worker, and has made clear his desire to put them first. If that means tariffs...so be it. American jobs are more important than incremental decreases in labor costs when manufacturing is offshore. Are tariffs economically sound? Possibly. Are they emotionally powerful and politically important? Absolutely.

But more than that...it is the idea of a president who cares about American jobs more than he cares about a sh*tty little border war in Ukraine. It's the idea that a president cares about the price of a tank of gas more than he cares about a politically motivated wealth redistribution driven by globalists. It's the idea that a president loves America...and Americans...more than he love the idea of a new world order that allows the rapid dissipation of American Exceptionalism.

The default Democrat support from many voting blocs in America is crumbling. Blacks, unions, Hispanics...they are all drifting away from the traditional Democrat. Is it huge? No. But a few percentage points is enough to shift the balance toward Donald Trump in a very meaningful way.

He will never get the committed unionist with the Eugene Debs tattoos and the key to the union local office, but he may get those in the middle, and they are all he needs.

[Crossposted at CutJibNewsletter]

Posted by: CBD at 11:00 AM

Comments

(Jump to bottom of comments)

1 st

Posted by: BruceWayne at October 01, 2024 11:00 AM (CIS44)

2 st!

Posted by: RedMindBlueState at October 01, 2024 11:00 AM (Wnv9h)

3 Wwhoa

Posted by: AlaBAMA at October 01, 2024 11:01 AM (q7hip)

4 1st? What happened?

Posted by: Bulgaroctonus at October 01, 2024 11:01 AM (v6JzV)

5 Sponge!

Posted by: rickb223 Gold & Silver Spot Prices at October 01, 2024 11:01 AM (yL/az)

6 Top three. Not bad for my age.

Posted by: AlaBAMA at October 01, 2024 11:01 AM (q7hip)

7 Yay monkey time!

Posted by: Zeera the ungoverened at October 01, 2024 11:01 AM (5Ovt1)

8 That was weird, I nooded, and when I came back here, BruceWayne's comment had disappeared.

Posted by: Bulgaroctonus at October 01, 2024 11:02 AM (v6JzV)

9 Even being a construction worker my whole like never got Unions

Posted by: Skip at October 01, 2024 11:02 AM (kTz4O)

10 Harris exudes the persona of a fundamentally unserious person, and Americans notice that sort of stuff. The giggly-retard tone is offputting when Americans are worried about where their next paycheck is coming from and whether it will be enough to buy a week's worth of groceries.

---------

I know, right? RIGHT???

Posted by: Kommula Harris at October 01, 2024 11:02 AM (JkO4W)

11 The content-free gibberish about building a new economy may sound nice to the slim-hipped hipsters in Brooklyn and Cambridge and Palo Alto

Slim-hipped? Have you seen those blue-haired land whales?

Posted by: Archimedes at October 01, 2024 11:02 AM (xCA6C)

12 Chilled monkey brains.

Posted by: Random Movie Quotes at October 01, 2024 11:02 AM (B0mGw)

13 All my wittiest comments get willowed.

Posted by: tankdemon at October 01, 2024 11:03 AM (RtCIi)

14 10 Harris exudes the persona of a fundamentally unserious person, and Americans notice that sort of stuff. The giggly-retard tone is offputting when Americans are worried about where their next paycheck is coming from and whether it will be enough to buy a week's worth of groceries.

But she's a "Brat" or something and stars love her !

Posted by: It's me donna at October 01, 2024 11:03 AM (IyPmt)

15 Union workers remember 2016-2020.

Posted by: The Central Scrutinizer at October 01, 2024 11:03 AM (KbCG3)

16 Middle class, baby, that's me.

Posted by: Kommula Harris at October 01, 2024 11:03 AM (JkO4W)

17 That was weird, I nooded, and when I came back here, BruceWayne's comment had disappeared.
Posted by: Bulgaroctonus

I have been rightfully restored on the top of the mountain.

Posted by: BruceWayne at October 01, 2024 11:03 AM (CIS44)

18 Yay monkey time!
Posted by: Zeera the ungoverened at October 01, 2024 11:01 AM

Do not touch!

Posted by: Dieter at October 01, 2024 11:04 AM (Wnv9h)

19 But she's a "Brat" or something and stars love her !
Posted by: It's me donna at

they sure left that Brat shit in the dust real quick.

Posted by: BruceWayne at October 01, 2024 11:04 AM (CIS44)

20 Three damning things happened in sequence.

Rainmondo said she didn't give a shit about the dockworkers strike.

Biden said he didn't give a shit about the hurricane victims.

Kamala said she whiffed when she picked Tampon Tim.

Bonus: Tampon Tim said we can't afford four more years of this!

They do realize how campaign ads work, right??

Posted by: AlaBAMA at October 01, 2024 11:04 AM (q7hip)

21 I have been rightfully restored on the top of the mountain.
Posted by: BruceWayne

I kowtow before you.

Posted by: Bulgaroctonus at October 01, 2024 11:04 AM (v6JzV)

22 "But she's a "Brat" or something and stars love her !"

Thank God covid showed Hollywood to be the shallow, self righteous, self absorbed gimps we all knew they were.

Posted by: Ribbed at October 01, 2024 11:04 AM (Ectld)

23 1$ tacos at the bell today, type changes every hour.

Posted by: BruceWayne at October 01, 2024 11:05 AM (CIS44)

24 15 Union workers remember 2016-2020.
Posted by: The Central Scrutinizer at October 01, 2024 11:03 AM (KbCG3)

Union officials don't.

Posted by: tankdemon at October 01, 2024 11:05 AM (RtCIi)

25 they sure left that Brat shit in the dust real quick.
Posted by: BruceWayne at October 01, 2024 11:04 AM (CIS44)

Seriously, that shit evaporated in less than a week.

Posted by: Warai-otoko at October 01, 2024 11:05 AM (DDGz9)

26 most American union members are unprepared for the financial burden of a strike, in particular during times like today...stagnant wage growth and high inflation.
++++
Not just union members.

When I got laid off earlier this year, it was not a surprise. Anyone paying the slightest bit of attention knew that the odds were decent that he was going to be let go. The number of people unprepared for it - after a bit more than a *year* of knowledge that it could be on the horizon and that one should insure against it - was staggering.

The acquisition-related payroll interruption was even more astonishing. The old company paid current. The new company paid arrears. When the switch happened, paychecks were light by one week as a result. It all comes out in the wash eventually, but that particular check was light. I have coworkers who were freaking out about it.

Relatively affluent (nobody on my team was poor) people with less than a week in reserve, on the eve of a likely layoff.

Margins are just too tight on average for it to not be ruinous. Just ask Hollywood.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at October 01, 2024 11:05 AM (HnUIn)

27 Would you like to make it a meal?

Posted by: Kommula Harris at October 01, 2024 11:06 AM (JkO4W)

28 25 they sure left that Brat shit in the dust real quick.
Posted by: BruceWayne at October 01, 2024 11:04 AM (CIS44)

Seriously, that shit evaporated in less than a week.
Posted by: Warai-otoko at October 01, 2024 11:05 AM (DDGz9

Nothing funnier than forced, paid for hype.

It always goes rancid in no time flat.

Posted by: AlaBAMA at October 01, 2024 11:06 AM (q7hip)

29 A caller to Hannity yesterday afternoon said something interesting. He stated that Trump is merely a vessel for an idea, the idea of making America great again I presume, and that the Dems are mistaking him for the idea. The idea, he said (and he mentioned he was a solid Trump fan), was more important than the vessel containing it.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at October 01, 2024 11:06 AM (J2vNu)

30 24 15 Union workers remember 2016-2020.
Posted by: The Central Scrutinizer at October 01, 2024 11:03 AM (KbCG3)

Union officials don't.
Posted by: tankdemon at October 01, 2024 11:05 AM (RtCIi)

Insulation from consequences is a powerful thing.

Posted by: The Central Scrutinizer at October 01, 2024 11:06 AM (KbCG3)

31 Slim-hipped? Have you seen those blue-haired land whales?
Posted by: Archimedes at October 01, 2024 11:02 AM (xCA6C)

I think he meant the skinny "guy" with the ironic beard and man bun who hopes to see a naked woman before global warming kills him.

Posted by: Madamemayhem (uppity wench) at October 01, 2024 11:06 AM (4XwPj)

32 All my wittiest comments get willowed.
Posted by: tankdemon at October 01, 2024 11:03 AM (RtCIi)

It's the AoSHQ way.

It will be title of the plaintive heart-rending lament in Act II of Ace of Spades: The Musical!.

Posted by: spindrift at October 01, 2024 11:06 AM (OguvZ)

33 (wanders in, nods)

What up?

Posted by: Puddleglum, cheer up for the worst is yet to come at October 01, 2024 11:06 AM (/Djer)

34 "Harris exudes the persona of a fundamentally unserious person, and Americans notice that sort of stuff."

This putang whore was serious about only one thing in her life: finding the right guys to suck off to advance her career. I'm not joking. That was the sole endeavor she was ever serious about. Everything before or since has been a cackling giggling semen-breathed joke.

Posted by: Doctor Elric the Blade at October 01, 2024 11:06 AM (iFTx/)

35 26 Relatively affluent (nobody on my team was poor) people with less than a week in reserve, on the eve of a likely layoff.

Margins are just too tight on average for it to not be ruinous. Just ask Hollywood.
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at October 01, 2024 11:05 AM (HnUIn)

======

Dolley's weird about money. I'm not even open to joking about money because it causes her so much anxiety.

We always have at least 4 months in reserve. I think it's about 6 months now.

We kept that through the buying of the house and moving period, too (though how far it could go paying 2 mortgages was an open question, something we didn't need to answer).

Essentially, she's smart, she's hot, and she's frugal. It's a good combination.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, terrorizing teenagers with Michael Myers at October 01, 2024 11:07 AM (GBKbO)

36
willowed but sorta on topic:

I ran into a retired Pennsylvania dockworker at a state park this past summer. I think he said he worked in Chester, PA. Interesting conversation about how the containers lock together on container ships and how they can stack them so high because of the system. A little bit dangerous work at certain parts when manual intervention is required to tie rows together at the top. Nothing I'd want to do, cause my fear of heights kicks in at about 30 feet.

I wonder if Mike Rowe ever did a segment on dockworkers?

Posted by: Divide by Zero at October 01, 2024 11:07 AM (RKVpM)

37 Ah, Eugene Debs.

Wilson tossed him in jail. Warren Harding pardoned him and invited him to the White House because he wanted to see what kind of man he was.

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing (aka Eloquent Depression) at October 01, 2024 11:07 AM (Q0kLU)

38 8 That was weird, I nooded, and when I came back here, BruceWayne's comment had disappeared.
Posted by: Bulgaroctonus at October 01, 2024 11:02 AM (v6JzV)
________
You f***ed up. You trusted us.

Posted by: Eeyore at October 01, 2024 11:07 AM (1bNHn)

39 they sure left that Brat shit in the dust real quick.

The "weird" thing didn't last much longer, because we started putting up pictures of their freakazoids.

Posted by: Archimedes at October 01, 2024 11:09 AM (xCA6C)

40 Essentially, she's smart, she's hot, and she's frugal. It's a good combination.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, terrorizing teenagers with Michael Myers at October 01, 2024 11:07 AM (GBKbO)

Which is to say, you outkicked your coverage.

Bless you.

Posted by: The Central Scrutinizer at October 01, 2024 11:09 AM (KbCG3)

41 I was in a union once, when I worked at a grocery store in my late teens. Hell we even voted to strike, so I can say I was on the whole union bandwagon. I think we got a $0.25/hr pay raise in the late 80's and my pay went from $4.00/hr to $4.25 per hour.

Posted by: MAGA_Ken at October 01, 2024 11:09 AM (Uf89d)

42 40 Which is to say, you outkicked your coverage.

Bless you.
Posted by: The Central Scrutinizer at October 01, 2024 11:09 AM (KbCG3)

=======

I've been saying that I married up since the wedding.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, terrorizing teenagers with Michael Myers at October 01, 2024 11:09 AM (GBKbO)

43 She is only leading by nine points. That would be the worst Democratic performance in a generation. Ten points off the mark of Joe Biden, who of course won four years ago as sort of that union guy, "Union Joe," right? He won by 19 points.
++++
Joe was the last gasp. Possibly, anyway.

If you're down with the union's stated position - defense of American labor - there is little to like in *either* major party. There hasn't been since the parties began converging policy in the early 90s. Prior to that, the deadlock by the Democrats still didn't make tremendous sense, but it wasn't totally senseless. The Dems wanted that open border - say hello to wage compression - and the Reps wanted unrestricted free trade - say hello to deindustrialization and job compression.

But since the mid 90s, both parties have been all-in on both. The unions - in terms of their mission and charter - have no reason to support either as a party. But the charter and mission are irrelevant. The unions won. They have no real reason to exist anymore on their original terms. Wages, total compensation and working conditions are all solved.

But nobody goes gently into the good night.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at October 01, 2024 11:09 AM (HnUIn)

44
The "weird" thing didn't last much longer, because we started putting up pictures of their freakazoids.
Posted by: Archimede

That was always an odd avenue of attack, being who they are and all.

Posted by: BruceWayne at October 01, 2024 11:10 AM (CIS44)

45 The "weird" thing didn't last much longer, because we started putting up pictures of their freakazoids.
Posted by: Archimedes at October 01, 2024 11:09 AM (xCA6C)

Yeah Walz's strange prancing and pointing killed the weird regarding Vance

Posted by: It's me donna at October 01, 2024 11:10 AM (IyPmt)

46 I think he meant the skinny "guy" with the ironic beard and man bun who hopes to see a naked woman before global warming kills him.

You're probably right.

Posted by: Archimedes at October 01, 2024 11:10 AM (xCA6C)

47 41 I was in a union once, when I worked at a grocery store in my late teens. Hell we even voted to strike, so I can say I was on the whole union bandwagon. I think we got a $0.25/hr pay raise in the late 80's and my pay went from $4.00/hr to $4.25 per hour.
Posted by: MAGA_Ken at October 01, 2024 11:09 AM (Uf89d)

=======

Those were the days when a few pennies an hour meant so much.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, terrorizing teenagers with Michael Myers at October 01, 2024 11:10 AM (GBKbO)

48 34 "Harris exudes the persona of a fundamentally unserious person, and Americans notice that sort of stuff."

This putang whore was serious about only one thing in her life: finding the right guys to suck off to advance her career. I'm not joking. That was the sole endeavor she was ever serious about. Everything before or since has been a cackling giggling semen-breathed joke.
Posted by: Doctor Elric the Blade at October 01, 2024 11:06 AM (iFTx/)
_______
I don't believe that. I think she takes it up the butt, too.

Posted by: Eeyore at October 01, 2024 11:10 AM (1bNHn)

49 Morning.

Took work off as the two littles were up and down all night sick. Wife and I on divide and conquer strategy today.

To the post itself I’m conflicted as the union leadership are corrupt AF but unions themselves SHOULD serve a purpose to protect workers.

I watched that NOT happen during covid definitely drives the distrust even further but one of their complaints is of AI takeover and I wholeheartedly agree with them.

No AI to take away jobs.

Posted by: thathalfrican - The One at October 01, 2024 11:10 AM (eZwyX)

50 "Monkey Time" (Major Lance):

"Now the dance that the people do, I don't know how it started,
All I know is that when the beat brings a feel
It's so hard to get parted!
And then the music begins to play --
Automatically you're on your way!
Are you ready (are you ready)?
Well, you get yours, cause-a I got mine
For the Monkey Time (Monkey Time)!"

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at October 01, 2024 11:10 AM (J2vNu)

51 Are tariffs economically sound? Possibly. Are they emotionally powerful and politically important? Absolutely.
++++
They're also a major policy component. Tariffs for diplomatic pressure purposes are economically quite bad, but can on balance be a good idea given the entire picture. It's risky and expensive, but often less risky and expensive than war, which is a common alternative.

Free trade absolutism removed a whole bushel of arrows from the diplomatic quiver.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at October 01, 2024 11:11 AM (HnUIn)

52
Yeah Walz's strange prancing and pointing killed the weird regarding Vance
Posted by: It's me donna at October 01, 2024 11:10 AM (IyPmt)

I really do hope Vance brings up the Tampons tonight.

Posted by: AlaBAMA at October 01, 2024 11:11 AM (q7hip)

53 Essentially, she's smart, she's hot, and she's frugal. It's a good combination.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, terrorizing teenagers with Michael Myers at October 01, 2024 11:07 AM (GBKbO)
++++
Well done.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at October 01, 2024 11:12 AM (HnUIn)

54 52
Yeah Walz's strange prancing and pointing killed the weird regarding Vance
Posted by: It's me donna at October 01, 2024 11:10 AM (IyPmt)

I really do hope Vance brings up the Tampons tonight.
Posted by: AlaBAMA at October 01, 2024 11:11 AM (q7hip)

========

Supposedly he is according to a leak, or something. Why do people leak that crap? I dunno.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, terrorizing teenagers with Michael Myers at October 01, 2024 11:12 AM (GBKbO)

55 I watched that NOT happen during covid definitely drives the distrust even further but one of their complaints is of AI takeover and I wholeheartedly agree with them.

No AI to take away jobs.

So you oppose the automation of the docks?

Posted by: Archimedes at October 01, 2024 11:12 AM (xCA6C)

56 Posted by: thathalfrican - The One at October 01, 2024 11:10 AM (eZwyX)
++++
Sorry your kids are under the weather. I hope they get well soon!

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at October 01, 2024 11:12 AM (HnUIn)

57 Ten points off the mark of Joe Biden, who of course won four years ago as sort of that union guy, "Union Joe," right? He won by 19 points.

Even after telling the union guy, "I DON'T WORK FOR YOU!"

Posted by: rickb223 Gold & Silver Spot Prices at October 01, 2024 11:12 AM (yL/az)

58 Posted by: TheJamesMadison

My wife is also a penny-pincher. She is found of saying, "It's not how much you make, it's how much you keep."

Posted by: Bulgaroctonus at October 01, 2024 11:12 AM (v6JzV)

59 It's a puzzle. There are very bad actors in the business space who will absolute treat employees like slaves if they can get away with it. But Unions are corrupt cesspools that you are compelled to join (in some states) if you want the job.

Having been compelled to be a Teamster, and join a Teamster strike, I am not a fan. It's why I stick to tech jobs that, mostly, don't need unions to make for a tolerable work environment. Hell, some tech companies are like luxury vacations almost. I never ate so good in my life as I did when I worked at Google.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, Vote but also buy ammo at October 01, 2024 11:12 AM (xcxpd)

60 For 129 years, the federal government subsisted mainly on tariffs on all ported goods.

It was the 16th amendment in 1913 that changed everything. It turned on the wealth transfer spigot. It is what allowed federal bloat, in the first place.

Posted by: insurgens ad opus at October 01, 2024 11:12 AM (+OqIN)

61 58 Posted by: TheJamesMadison

My wife is also a penny-pincher. She is found of saying, "It's not how much you make, it's how much you keep."
Posted by: Bulgaroctonus at October 01, 2024 11:12 AM (v6JzV)

=======

My wife likes to say, "Stop buying movies so we can travel more!"

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, terrorizing teenagers with Michael Myers at October 01, 2024 11:13 AM (GBKbO)

62 Five weeks.

Posted by: The ARC of History! at October 01, 2024 11:13 AM (uxCna)

63 Are tariffs economically sound? Possibly.

If your refusal to implement tariffs allows another country to destroy your economy, particularly the strategically vital portions of your economy, that's not economically sound either.

Posted by: I used to have a different nic at October 01, 2024 11:13 AM (U7wke)

64 I think we got a $0.25/hr pay raise in the late 80's and my pay went from $4.00/hr to $4.25 per hour.

~6% so depending on when that was, probably well above the rate of inflation.

Posted by: Oddbob at October 01, 2024 11:13 AM (/y8xj)

65 Supposedly he is according to a leak, or something. Why do people leak that crap? I dunno.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison

It makes them feel special. "I know something you don't know".

Posted by: rickb223 Gold & Silver Spot Prices at October 01, 2024 11:13 AM (yL/az)

66 58 Posted by: TheJamesMadison

My wife is also a penny-pincher. She is found of saying, "It's not how much you make, it's how much you keep."

Posted by: Bulgaroctonus at October 01, 2024 11:12 AM (v6JzV)

Y'all got a hotline or something I can call? My wife is great at pinching pennies. It's the rest of the monetary denominations that she struggles to contain.

Posted by: The Central Scrutinizer at October 01, 2024 11:13 AM (KbCG3)

67 Are the DUers still expecting Timpon to mop the floor with Vance?

Posted by: Northernlurker , wondering where his phone is at October 01, 2024 11:14 AM (FfSAJ)

68 Posted by: Archimedes at October 01, 2024 11:12 AM (xCA6C)

Yes. I’m not in the business of taking jobs away from people with no other skill set.

Unless it’s going to help and not take a job away, but I doubt that’ll be the case.

Posted by: thathalfrican - The One at October 01, 2024 11:14 AM (eZwyX)

69 "Are the DUers still expecting Timpon to mop the floor with Vance?"

To say otherwise is systemic racism and white supremacy.

Posted by: Ribbed at October 01, 2024 11:14 AM (B0mGw)

70 In Kamala's case BRAT means Brownish Retarded Affluent Twat

Posted by: It's a palindrome or whatever at October 01, 2024 11:15 AM (OClqp)

71 51 Are tariffs economically sound? Possibly. Are they emotionally powerful and politically important? Absolutely.
++++
They're also a major policy component. Tariffs for diplomatic pressure purposes are economically quite bad, but can on balance be a good idea given the entire picture. It's risky and expensive, but often less risky and expensive than war, which is a common alternative.

Free trade absolutism removed a whole bushel of arrows from the diplomatic quiver.
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at October 01, 2024 11:11 AM (HnUIn)
_______
It is essentially based on a belief that economic concerns are the only things that matter. In 19th C Britain, there were even those who argued that you couldn't interrupt the enemy's trade in wartime. It would be wrong.

Posted by: Eeyore at October 01, 2024 11:15 AM (1bNHn)

72 Y'all got a hotline or something I can call? My wife is great at pinching pennies. It's the rest of the monetary denominations that she struggles to contain.
Posted by: The Central Scrutinizer

But it was buy 6 get one free, I know I only needed 1 but look at the savings.

Posted by: BruceWayne at October 01, 2024 11:15 AM (CIS44)

73 If fading memory serves, that Major Lance 45-rpm "Monkey Time" was the first record I ever bought.

Posted by: Just Some Guy at October 01, 2024 11:15 AM (q3u5l)

74 67 Are the DUers still expecting Timpon to mop the floor with Vance?
Posted by: Northernlurker , wondering where his phone is at October 01, 2024 11:14 AM (FfSAJ)

Even if he doesn't they and the media will say he did

Posted by: It's me donna at October 01, 2024 11:15 AM (IyPmt)

75 I'm so old I remember when suggesting that election machines were being manipulated remotely would get you branded as a far right nut job.

Some real interesting stuff coming out in this Georgia hearing despite the media blackout.

>>@realLizUSA
This is new???

>>Two experts testify in DeKalb GOP v Raffensperger that the election system in Gwinnett County, Georgia was remotely accessed from Belgrade, Serbia DURING the 2020 Election

>>Similar activity also happened in Colorado, Michigan, and other states

Posted by: JackStraw at October 01, 2024 11:15 AM (LkLld)

76 66 Y'all got a hotline or something I can call? My wife is great at pinching pennies. It's the rest of the monetary denominations that she struggles to contain.
Posted by: The Central Scrutinizer at October 01, 2024 11:13 AM (KbCG3)

======

Dolley grew up poor and had to buy her own first car entirely on money she was making from an after school job in high school.

It created habits.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, terrorizing teenagers with Michael Myers at October 01, 2024 11:15 AM (GBKbO)

77 Iranian ballistic missile attack on Israel apparently imminent.

Good thing we have Joe and Kamala at the helm.

Posted by: The ARC of History! at October 01, 2024 11:15 AM (uxCna)

78 Yes. I’m not in the business of taking jobs away from people with no other skill set.

----------

So you're voting for Kamala then?

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero43) at October 01, 2024 11:15 AM (JkO4W)

79 66 58 Posted by: TheJamesMadison

My wife is also a penny-pincher. She is found of saying, "It's not how much you make, it's how much you keep."

Posted by: Bulgaroctonus at October 01, 2024 11:12 AM (v6JzV)

Y'all got a hotline or something I can call? My wife is great at pinching pennies. It's the rest of the monetary denominations that she struggles to contain.
Posted by: The Central Scrutinizer at October 01, 2024 11:13 AM (KbCG3)

Dittoes. Something-something-pound-foolish-something-something....

Posted by: Zombie Robbo the Llama Butcher at October 01, 2024 11:15 AM (LxER7)

80 I was in a union once, when I worked at a grocery store in my late teens. Hell we even voted to strike, so I can say I was on the whole union bandwagon. I think we got a $0.25/hr pay raise in the late 80's and my pay went from $4.00/hr to $4.25 per hour.
Posted by: MAGA_Ken at October 01, 2024 11:09 AM (Uf89d)

I was in a union (retail workers) in HS. It was compulsory, and I was ticked that I could not opt out of what was largely unnecessary and wasteful of my wages, from my perspective, since it was a transitory position that would be long forgotten in my professional journey.

I feel for people who actually need that as a stepping stone to better their lives, but it does not change my opinion that unions are largely a waste and an unnecessary burden on their respective markets.

Posted by: Comrade Flounder, Disinformation Demon at October 01, 2024 11:15 AM (i24o9)

81 My wife likes to say, "Stop buying movies so we can travel more!"
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, terrorizing teenagers with Michael Myers at October 01, 2024 11:13 AM (GBKbO)

You must have a heck of a collection at this point. How do you store it?

Posted by: Shelf Curious at October 01, 2024 11:16 AM (UGyV5)

82 Yes. I’m not in the business of taking jobs away from people with no other skill set.

Perhaps the problem is that they see no need to develop other skill sets.
*sits back and awaits snark from the Horde about "learning to code"*

Posted by: Archimedes at October 01, 2024 11:16 AM (xCA6C)

83 72 Y'all got a hotline or something I can call? My wife is great at pinching pennies. It's the rest of the monetary denominations that she struggles to contain.
Posted by: The Central Scrutinizer

But it was buy 6 get one free, I know I only needed 1 but look at the savings.
Posted by: BruceWayne at October 01, 2024 11:15 AM (CIS44)

"I ordered more so that we could get the free shipping," is pretty much a constant refrain around here.

Posted by: The Central Scrutinizer at October 01, 2024 11:16 AM (KbCG3)

84 Kumswala might be hemorrhaging union votes, but surely she has the vote of that Indian (feather) land whale from the video last night. Looks like Buffalo's Ass. I'm not sure a woman could be more morbidly obese than that porker.

Posted by: Doctor Elric the Blade at October 01, 2024 11:16 AM (iFTx/)

85 "I ordered more so that we could get the free shipping," is pretty much a constant refrain around here.
Posted by: The Central Scrutinizer at October 01, 2024 11:16 AM (KbCG3)

And ?

Posted by: It's me donna at October 01, 2024 11:16 AM (IyPmt)

86 Iranian ballistic missile attack on Israel apparently imminent.

Good thing we have Joe and Kamala at the helm.
Posted by: The ARC of History! at October 01, 2024 11:15 AM (uxCna)

-----------

She'll be the last one in the room.

Hopefully, it will be the wrong room and the few people with a bare minimum of competence will be in another room.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero43) at October 01, 2024 11:17 AM (JkO4W)

87 81 My wife likes to say, "Stop buying movies so we can travel more!"
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, terrorizing teenagers with Michael Myers at October 01, 2024 11:13 AM (GBKbO)

You must have a heck of a collection at this point. How do you store it?
Posted by: Shelf Curious at October 01, 2024 11:16 AM (UGyV5)

========

My shelves are primo...from IKEA.

I'm getting to a point where I'm kind of running out of things I want to buy, so I'm not sure if any expansion will be necessary for a long time.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, terrorizing teenagers with Michael Myers at October 01, 2024 11:17 AM (GBKbO)

88 Dolley grew up poor and had to buy her own first car entirely on money she was making from an after school job in high school.

It created habits.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, terrorizing teenagers with Michael Myers at October 01, 2024 11:15 AM (GBKbO)

Same here. Asked my father for a guitar when I was 13, he told me to get a job and I could get all the guitars I wanted.

Bought my first couple of cars using cash ($500 cars are worth every penny).

I pinch pennies. I've never known "discretionary income."

My sister is exact opposite. Weird how it works.

Posted by: The Central Scrutinizer at October 01, 2024 11:17 AM (KbCG3)

89 Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at October 01, 2024 11:12 AM (HnUIn)

Thanks. They’ll be back to hell raisers in no time.

Posted by: thathalfrican - The One at October 01, 2024 11:17 AM (eZwyX)

90 ... To the post itself I’m conflicted as the union leadership are corrupt AF but unions themselves SHOULD serve a purpose to protect workers. ...
Posted by: thathalfrican - The One at October 01, 2024 11:10 AM (eZwyX)
++++
I don't disagree at its root, but this does present an important question: what does "protect" mean? Protect from what, and against whom?

Originally, the union movement boiled down to, "industrial development has resulted in tremendous increases in net productivity, for which workers are not compensated." There were also the "working conditions" problems. Unions helped solve both of those problems.

And those problems are now solved, more or less comprehensively across the economy. The root issue of "protecting workers" was solved decades ago in terms of their own framework.

Rightly positioned, I think, contemporary unions should be tackling different threats - like DEI policies that prevent skilled people from advancing and harm average productivity and thus harming all workers.

I think there is a still a place for unions, but it is a very different place from the one they occupy. They're political organizations now. They won, and then chose naked power.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at October 01, 2024 11:17 AM (HnUIn)

91
"I ordered more so that we could get the free shipping," is pretty much a constant refrain around here.
Posted by: The Central Scrutinizer

HAHAH Im literarily combing through the Matco site rn to find something of use for 16-20$ for that reason right now. Of course the the fact that I only have 2.5 months of 58% off adds to that.

Posted by: BruceWayne at October 01, 2024 11:18 AM (CIS44)

92 "I ordered more so that we could get the free shipping," is pretty much a constant refrain around here.

* looks at Midway USA order *
* quietly steps backward *

Posted by: Oddbob at October 01, 2024 11:18 AM (/y8xj)

93 Kamala said she whiffed when she picked Tampon Tim.

When did this happen? I missed this.

Posted by: I used to have a different nic at October 01, 2024 11:18 AM (U7wke)

94 85 "I ordered more so that we could get the free shipping," is pretty much a constant refrain around here.
Posted by: The Central Scrutinizer at October 01, 2024 11:16 AM (KbCG3)

And ?
Posted by: It's me donna at October 01, 2024 11:16 AM (IyPmt)

I'm starting to wonder how expensive shipping is.

Posted by: The Central Scrutinizer at October 01, 2024 11:18 AM (KbCG3)

95 Posted by: Cicero (@cicero43) at October 01, 2024 11:15 AM (JkO4W)

Yes. I’m totally voting for Kamala.

Posted by: thathalfrican - The One at October 01, 2024 11:18 AM (eZwyX)

96 59 It's a puzzle. There are very bad actors in the business space who will absolute treat employees like slaves if they can get away with it. But Unions are corrupt cesspools that you are compelled to join (in some states) if you want the job.

Having been compelled to be a Teamster, and join a Teamster strike, I am not a fan. It's why I stick to tech jobs that, mostly, don't need unions to make for a tolerable work environment. Hell, some tech companies are like luxury vacations almost. I never ate so good in my life as I did when I worked at Google.
Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, Vote but also buy ammo at October 01, 2024 11:12 AM (xcxpd)
_____
Yes. There seems to be something structural in the way unions are run, that makes them automatically kleptocracies. Sure, that's a tendency of all organizations. But for most, sometimes they are well run. But with unions, that trend ALWAYS happens.

There must be a reason. They do better keeping good people out of the leadership than even the politicians and bureaucrats do.

Posted by: Eeyore at October 01, 2024 11:19 AM (1bNHn)

97 95 Posted by: Cicero (@cicero43) at October 01, 2024 11:15 AM (JkO4W)

Yes. I’m totally voting for Kamala.
Posted by: thathalfrican - The One at October 01, 2024 11:18 AM (eZwyX)

=======

I'm keeping myself pure by voting for Pat Buchanan.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, terrorizing teenagers with Michael Myers at October 01, 2024 11:19 AM (GBKbO)

98 My wife is also a penny-pincher. She is found of saying, "It's not how much you make, it's how much you keep."
Posted by: Bulgaroctonus at October 01, 2024 11:12 AM (v6JzV)
++++
It's both, of course. But being careful with spending does a tremendous amount.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at October 01, 2024 11:19 AM (HnUIn)

99 > The default Democrat support from many voting blocs in America is crumbling. Blacks, unions, Hispanics...they are all drifting away from the traditional Democrat.
--------
The Appalachian vote.

Used to be reliably Democrat. During the 2016 run-up Hillary disparaged the entire demographic... parts of PA, WV, KY, OH, NC and VA that were reliably "D" switched overnight. IIRC in WV Trump took about every precinct.

Posted by: Martini Farmer at October 01, 2024 11:19 AM (Q4IgG)

100 They won, and then chose naked power.
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at October 01, 2024 11:17 AM (HnUIn)

Nobody wants to see the average Teamster naked.

Posted by: That's just nasty at October 01, 2024 11:19 AM (OClqp)

101 Union officials don't.
Posted by: tankdemon at October 01, 2024 11:05 AM (RtCIi)

Union officials got upset because they had to wait for tables at their favorite European restaurants because too many union members could travel there.

Posted by: I used to have a different nic at October 01, 2024 11:20 AM (U7wke)

102 Kamala said she whiffed when she picked Tampon Tim.

When did this happen? I missed this.

She didn't QUITE say that. She said she was sleep-deprived (aka plastered) when she made the decision. I'm sure Walz really appreciated the vote of confidence before the debate.

Posted by: Archimedes at October 01, 2024 11:20 AM (xCA6C)

103
I don't think I'd wanna be a dockworker with some AI controlled robot arm swinging containers around like lego pieces.

Maybe the companies should cede that point until the next contract in six years while the AI tech either works or kills some people.

Posted by: Divide by Zero at October 01, 2024 11:20 AM (RKVpM)

104 Why do people leak that crap?

Hey, that was me! I was in the news!

Posted by: "A Source Close to the Matter" at October 01, 2024 11:20 AM (yb6pe)

105 IIRC in WV Trump took about every precinct.
Posted by: Martini Farmer a

yup WV and OK the only states in 16 and 20 that were totally red

Posted by: BruceWayne at October 01, 2024 11:20 AM (CIS44)

106 93 Kamala said she whiffed when she picked Tampon Tim.

When did this happen? I missed this.
Posted by: I used to have a different nic at October 01, 2024 11:18 AM (U7wke)
_____
Just following precedent. As Biden did with Harris, and Obama with Biden.

Posted by: Eeyore at October 01, 2024 11:20 AM (1bNHn)

107 When did this happen? I missed this.

I don't think she actually said it was a mistake but she told some story about being sleep deprived when she made the call. Whatever it was supposed to mean, it certainly wasn't a compliment to Timmy.

Posted by: Oddbob at October 01, 2024 11:20 AM (/y8xj)

108 I'm cheap as a mofo. Unless I really want something. Then I'll spend whatever it takes. I'm the guy who buys store brands and only shit on sale, bitches and moans about having to may more than he has to for anything, but who drives exotic cars.

Posted by: Doctor Elric the Blade at October 01, 2024 11:20 AM (iFTx/)

109 108 I'm cheap as a mofo. Unless I really want something. Then I'll spend whatever it takes. I'm the guy who buys store brands and only shit on sale, bitches and moans about having to may more than he has to for anything, but who drives exotic cars.
Posted by: Doctor Elric the Blade at October 01, 2024 11:20 AM (iFTx/)

======

While wearing a TIMEX!

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, terrorizing teenagers with Michael Myers at October 01, 2024 11:21 AM (GBKbO)

110 77 Iranian ballistic missile attack on Israel apparently imminent.

Good thing we have Joe and Kamala at the helm.
Posted by: The ARC of History! at October 01, 2024 11:15 AM (uxCna)

Calls for restraint and descalation in 3..2..1.

Hahahaha. Who am I kidding. They are gonna pull out kamala's vuvezuela and blow it like no tomorrow.

Posted by: Cuthbert the Witless at October 01, 2024 11:21 AM (SEAA9)

111 Something I've wondered about occasionally, why is the relationship between employee and employer always an adversarial one? Seems as though working for mutual benefit would be a better way, since both will benefit.

Posted by: IRONGRAMPA at October 01, 2024 11:21 AM (hKoQL)

112 Politically, sure tariffs sound like a good idea to the misinformed. Economically, they are very, very bad. Look at Harley Davidson as an easy example.

Posted by: Earl Schlobodowicz at October 01, 2024 11:21 AM (P7Iz+)

113 It is essentially based on a belief that economic concerns are the only things that matter. In 19th C Britain, there were even those who argued that you couldn't interrupt the enemy's trade in wartime. It would be wrong.
Posted by: Eeyore at October 01, 2024 11:15 AM (1bNHn)
++++
There is a root false premise, which is that prosperity leads to liberty. This was an extremely common refrain among Western free-traders when Deng was liberalizing the Red Chinese economy but not its society. It boils down to "they become free before we become poor."

It's a case of inverted causality. It is fundamentally, completely wrong. Liberty leads to prosperity, not the other way around.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at October 01, 2024 11:21 AM (HnUIn)

114 I'm starting to wonder how expensive shipping is.
Posted by: The Central Scrutinizer

When your order totals $39.95 & shipping is $19.95, ($59.90) but it's free if you spend a total of $50+...

Posted by: rickb223 Gold & Silver Spot Prices at October 01, 2024 11:21 AM (yL/az)

115 Posted by: Archimedes at October 01, 2024 11:16 AM (xCA6C)

Ah yes. Telling some low skilled worker who’s worked the docks for 12 years that he’s being replaced by a robot is totally a way to keep the country alive.

Posted by: thathalfrican - The One at October 01, 2024 11:21 AM (eZwyX)

116 104 Why do people leak that crap?

Olestra

Posted by: Got recalled if I recall at October 01, 2024 11:21 AM (OClqp)

117 I’m not in the business of taking jobs away from people with no other skill set.
----------
So you're voting for Kamala then?
-------
What a load of passive aggressive bullshit.

Posted by: Ribbed at October 01, 2024 11:21 AM (Ectld)

118 I'm getting to a point where I'm kind of running out of things I want to buy, so I'm not sure if any expansion will be necessary for a long time.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, terrorizing teenagers with Michael Myers at October 01, 2024 11:17 AM (GBKbO)

*Japanese and Korean cinema has entered the chat*

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, Vote but also buy ammo at October 01, 2024 11:21 AM (xcxpd)

119 118 *Japanese and Korean cinema has entered the chat*
Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, Vote but also buy ammo at October 01, 2024 11:21 AM (xcxpd)

=======

*Region locking on Blu-rays has kept out most of those from the chat*

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, terrorizing teenagers with Michael Myers at October 01, 2024 11:22 AM (GBKbO)

120 Something I've wondered about occasionally, why is the relationship between employee and employer always an adversarial one? Seems as though working for mutual benefit would be a better way, since both will benefit.
Posted by: IRONGRAMPA

*Confederate States of America has entered the chat.

Posted by: rickb223 Gold & Silver Spot Prices at October 01, 2024 11:22 AM (yL/az)

121 I'm starting to wonder how expensive shipping is.
Posted by: The Central Scrutinizer

6$ on my order rn

Posted by: BruceWayne at October 01, 2024 11:22 AM (CIS44)

122 116 104 Why do people leak that crap?

Olestra
Posted by: Got recalled if I recall at October 01, 2024 11:21 AM (OClq

Good times.

Posted by: Taco bell at October 01, 2024 11:22 AM (SEAA9)

123 I'm cheap as a mofo. Unless I really want something. Then I'll spend whatever it takes. I'm the guy who buys store brands and only shit on sale, bitches and moans about having to may more than he has to for anything, but who drives exotic cars.
Posted by: Doctor Elric the Blade at October 01, 2024 11:20 AM (iFTx/)

======

While wearing a TIMEX!
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, terrorizing teenagers with Michael Myers at October 01, 2024 11:21 AM (GBKbO)
_______

Well ... I have exotic tastes in watches too. So no Timex, lol.

Posted by: Doctor Elric the Blade at October 01, 2024 11:22 AM (iFTx/)

124 The "weird" thing didn't last much longer, because we started putting up pictures of their freakazoids.

It still has traction, at least here in Maskachusetts. Signs that read DON'T BE WEIRD: HARRIS / WALZ 2024.

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing (aka Eloquent Depression) at October 01, 2024 11:22 AM (Q0kLU)

125 I warned my wife about the strike and how we should get some extra supplies in the next few days.

What gets me is that it's not just about the money. The union is also fighting against automation and better technology to move things along.

Posted by: NR Pax at October 01, 2024 11:22 AM (lXoJ5)

126 I don't think I'd wanna be a dockworker with some AI controlled robot arm swinging containers around like lego pieces.

Maybe the companies should cede that point until the next contract in six years while the AI tech either works or kills some people.

Is the AI ready? That's a different question. The point is that the dockworkers are holding America's economy hostage. That won't change in 6 years.

Posted by: Archimedes at October 01, 2024 11:22 AM (xCA6C)

127 *Region locking on Blu-rays has kept out most of those from the chat*
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, terrorizing teenagers with Michael Myers at October 01, 2024 11:22 AM (GBKbO)
++++
Get a BD-ROM drive, flash it with region non-enforcing firmware, and rip the titles to your library.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at October 01, 2024 11:22 AM (HnUIn)

128 But look at where Kamala Harris is today. She is only leading by nine points.

I suspect teacher's unions are pulling a lot of weight here. Aren't blue collar unions wildly favoring Trump?

Posted by: Emmie at October 01, 2024 11:23 AM (Sf2cq)

129 Posted by: TheJamesMadison, terrorizing teenagers with Michael Myers at October 01, 2024 11:19 AM (GBKbO)

I’m gonna be super pure and write in Jesus Christ.

Posted by: thathalfrican - The One at October 01, 2024 11:23 AM (eZwyX)

130 109
While wearing a TIMEX!
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, terrorizing teenagers with Michael Myers at October 01, 2024 11:21 AM (GBKbO)

No need to bring Willie Brown into this.
(It takes a licking.......)

Posted by: Our Country is Screwed at October 01, 2024 11:23 AM (N39Ws)

131 I was made a member of the canadian autoworkers union for awhile.

Because I was dealing blackjack at a casino......

Posted by: Stateless at October 01, 2024 11:23 AM (jvJvP)

132 123 Well ... I have exotic tastes in watches too. So no Timex, lol.
Posted by: Doctor Elric the Blade at October 01, 2024 11:22 AM (iFTx/)

========

My brother, who lives in Manhattan, told us a story once about how he briefly dated a mafia princess who offered to go and buy him a $15,000 watch on a date once. He declined.

I believe very little of the story (it goes on to include the girl disappearing from her car for a while and coming back scuffed up after having gotten into a fight), but it's fun to hear.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, terrorizing teenagers with Michael Myers at October 01, 2024 11:23 AM (GBKbO)

133 She didn't QUITE say that. She said she was sleep-deprived (aka plastered) when she made the decision. I'm sure Walz really appreciated the vote of confidence before the debate.
Posted by: Archimedes at October 01, 2024 11:20 AM (xCA6C)
----------

Also mentioned she went into cooking mode which is great because who needs to read all the briefing papers stacking up on her desk.

Posted by: WisRich at October 01, 2024 11:24 AM (G0vdT)

134 Posted by: Archimedes at October 01, 2024 11:22 AM (xCA6C)

How are they holding back the economy?

Explain it like I’m 5.

Posted by: thathalfrican - The One at October 01, 2024 11:24 AM (eZwyX)

135 Even if Kamal's BS about working at McD were true so f***ing what? That is her whole experience of working in the private sector? A few months at a single low skill, part-time job make her relatable to people that spend years working long hours to gradually get ahead and live a comfortable life? It is insulting to even suggest that. Which is why I hope the dolts surrounding her tell her to repeat it over an over.

Posted by: Ripley at October 01, 2024 11:24 AM (GUOwU)

136 Posted by: TheJamesMadison, terrorizing teenagers with Michael Myers at October 01, 2024 11:23 AM (GBKbO)

“She lives in Canada. You wouldn’t know her.”

Posted by: thathalfrican - The One at October 01, 2024 11:25 AM (eZwyX)

137 Also mentioned she went into cooking mode which is great because who needs to read all the briefing papers stacking up on her desk.
Posted by: WisRich at October 01, 2024 11:24 AM (G0vdT)

A pork roast after saying she got the "call" from Joe at breakfast and was cooking bacon for her Nieces... Pork roast and bacon.. For her Jewish Husband ?

Posted by: It's me donna at October 01, 2024 11:25 AM (IyPmt)

138 Ah yes. Telling some low skilled worker who’s worked the docks for 12 years that he’s being replaced by a robot is totally a way to keep the country alive.

By that logic, we should still be using spinning wheels, clipper ships, and abacuses. Did you oppose the move away from teaspoons in Chinese roadbuilding?

Posted by: Archimedes at October 01, 2024 11:25 AM (xCA6C)

139 "but can on balance be a good idea given the entire picture. It's risky and expensive, but often less risky and expensive than war, which is a common alternative."

Jose, you are getting it backwards. It is trade wars, and the concomitant economic downturns, that have historically led to real wars.

Posted by: Earl Schlobodowicz at October 01, 2024 11:25 AM (P7Iz+)

140 My wife likes to say, "Stop buying movies so we can travel more!"
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, terrorizing teenagers with Michael Myers at October 01, 2024 11:13 AM (GBKbO)
----

My wife says the same thing! Except replace "movies" with "gun parts".

Posted by: insurgens ad opus at October 01, 2024 11:25 AM (+OqIN)

141 My brother, who lives in Manhattan, told us a story once about how he briefly dates a mafia princess who offered to go and buy him a $15,000 watch on a date once. He declined.

I believe very little of the story (it goes on to include the girl disappearing from her car for a while and coming back scuffed up after having gotten into a fight), but it's fun to hear.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, terrorizing teenagers with Michael Myers at October 01, 2024 11:23 AM (GBKbO)
++++
The kernels of the story are probably true.

She probably was a mafioso's daughter. She probably did offer to buy him a watch. She probably did disappear for shady reasons.

But "a mob lieutenant's daughter offered to buy me a $1k watch, which seemed odd - and later her dad came and fetched her to slap some sense into her" can easily become "the don's daughter wanted to shower me with gifts until a rival snatched her from her car and roughed her up."

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at October 01, 2024 11:26 AM (HnUIn)

142 *Region locking on Blu-rays has kept out most of those from the chat*
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, terrorizing teenagers with Michael Myers at October 01, 2024 11:22 AM (GBKbO)

I hate this. I routinely find horror blu-rays available in Europe but not here. Meanwhile, crooks in China will sell region-free bootlegs. What's the point?

Posted by: I Honestly Don't Get It at October 01, 2024 11:26 AM (UGyV5)

143 141 But "a mob lieutenant's daughter offered to buy me a $1k watch, which seemed odd - and later her dad came and fetched her to slap some sense into her" can easily become "the don's daughter wanted to shower me with gifts until a rival snatched her from her car and roughed her up."
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at October 01, 2024 11:26 AM (HnUIn)

=======

My favorite part of the story is that the mob did a background check on him and came back with a verdict:

Harmless.

It hurt his ego.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, terrorizing teenagers with Michael Myers at October 01, 2024 11:26 AM (GBKbO)

144 "By that logic, we should still be using spinning wheels, clipper ships, and abacuses. Did you oppose the move away from teaspoons in Chinese roadbuilding?"

If my wellbeing depended on maintaining teaspoon operators, I would. Telling union workers to get over their jobs being eliminated for the good of the country is about as socialist as it gets.

Posted by: Ribbed at October 01, 2024 11:27 AM (IHRQq)

145 Halfrican-
My point is that the goal is to move them into other jobs that make economic sense. Simply keeping them there because they haven't upgraded their skills and refuse to do so is an economic loser.

Posted by: Archimedes at October 01, 2024 11:27 AM (xCA6C)

146
Something I've wondered about occasionally, why is the relationship between employee and employer always an adversarial one? Seems as though working for mutual benefit would be a better way, since both will benefit.

Posted by: IRONGRAMPA at October 01, 2024 11:21 AM

That is a needle that Trump seemed to be able to thread pretty well. In my neck of the woods there was constant strife between unions and commercial real estate developers. Nasty, nasty stuff.

Posted by: Divide by Zero at October 01, 2024 11:27 AM (RKVpM)

147 Posted by: Archimedes at October 01, 2024 11:25 AM (xCA6C)

Alright I’ll bite. What happens when AI is able to replace almost every blue collar job and some white collar jobs?

Posted by: thathalfrican - The One at October 01, 2024 11:27 AM (eZwyX)

148 How are they holding back the economy?

Explain it like I’m 5.
Posted by: thathalfrican - The One at October 01, 2024 11:24 AM (eZwyX)

Five people using one machine to do the work of twenty can generate more wealth and thus get paid more than five people doing the work of one person because none of them can get fired.

Posted by: Warai-otoko at October 01, 2024 11:27 AM (DDGz9)

149 Jose, you are getting it backwards. It is trade wars, and the concomitant economic downturns, that have historically led to real wars.
Posted by: Earl Schlobodowicz at October 01, 2024 11:25 AM (P7Iz+)
++++
Sometimes. It is risky. Sometimes war is unavoidable. Sometimes it doesn't. Tariff regimes are flexible, which is one of their benefits. And "tariffs cause wars" is not nearly reliable enough to go by. Full-blown trade wars often lead to shooting wars, but they probably don't cause them. The trade war is used first, to try to avoid the real war. It doesn't always work.

But there is a lot of room between "trade interference for diplomatic purposes in pursuit of a specific adjustment in relations" and "full-on trade war." You can park a fleet of buses in the gap between the two.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at October 01, 2024 11:28 AM (HnUIn)

150 "My point is that the goal is to move them into other jobs that make economic sense."

That pay less and have less bargaining power.

Posted by: Ribbed at October 01, 2024 11:28 AM (IHRQq)

151 To some extent I can understand the position of the longshoremen. During covid they were busting ass doing their jobs while TPTB were fucking them sideways. They had to comply with covid restrictions or get fired and keep goods moving. The shipping companies got ginormous profits and the dock workers got vilified and blamed for slow downs, shortages, and traffic jams at the ports, all of which were caused by stupid covid restrictions and imbecilic politicians. Truck drivers got the same shit. So I don't blame these folks for wanting some kind of payback compensation.
However, the timing sucks and 77% is exorbitant.

Posted by: Madamemayhem (uppity wench) at October 01, 2024 11:28 AM (4XwPj)

152 Something I've wondered about occasionally, why is the relationship between employee and employer always an adversarial one? Seems as though working for mutual benefit would be a better way, since both will benefit.

In part because your typical suit, who generally provides little of actual value but draws an outsized salary and bonuses, is incentivized to squeeze the hell out of the employees.

Posted by: There's also incompetence, stupidity and sociopathy at October 01, 2024 11:28 AM (OClqp)

153 Telling union workers to get over their jobs being eliminated for the good of the country is about as socialist as it gets.

It's not about what's good for the country, it's about what's good for the company, and therefore benefits the national economy. (yeah, yeah, GM)

Please tell me which other jobs are not allowed to be eliminated.

Posted by: Archimedes at October 01, 2024 11:28 AM (xCA6C)

154 My wife likes to say, "Stop buying movies so we can travel more!"
Posted by: TheJamesMadison,

I thought it was, "Stop ordering those second beers so we can travel more!"

Posted by: Bulgaroctonus at October 01, 2024 11:29 AM (v6JzV)

155 If my wellbeing depended on maintaining teaspoon operators, I would. Telling union workers to get over their jobs being eliminated for the good of the country is about as socialist as it gets.
Posted by: Ribbed at October 01, 2024 11:27 AM (IHRQq)

But it's Progress! You can't argue with that!

Posted by: Dr. Richard Daystrom at October 01, 2024 11:29 AM (LxER7)

156 142 I hate this. I routinely find horror blu-rays available in Europe but not here. Meanwhile, crooks in China will sell region-free bootlegs. What's the point?
Posted by: I Honestly Don't Get It at October 01, 2024 11:26 AM (UGyV5)

========

Licensing parameters mostly.

Say you are a major film distributor and you have rights to a film but only in North America. In order to help preserve the rights of the distributors in Europe or South America or wherever, you not only limit your distribution to NA but also its playability by region locking it. This gets even more important for small labels that license all of their content (Kino, for instance, won't even ship to Europe).

Some studios won't limit it (WB is usually region free) and 4Ks are built to be region free (though there is apparently some Java code to exploit in the disc that can lock it, though it's not to spec to do it), but there are genuine reasons for the practice.

And when you get to things like indy films, foreign films, and the like where licensing is all over the place, and it just gets messy.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, terrorizing teenagers with Michael Myers at October 01, 2024 11:30 AM (GBKbO)

157 I thought it was, "Stop ordering those second beers so we can travel more!"
Posted by: Bulgaroctonus at October 01, 2024 11:29 AM (v6JzV)
++++
TJM doesn't drink beer anymore. He's beefing up for his cruise.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at October 01, 2024 11:30 AM (HnUIn)

158 My favorite part of the story is that the mob did a background check on him and came back with a verdict:

Harmless.

It hurt his ego.

OK, "mostly harmless." Better?

Posted by: HHGTTG at October 01, 2024 11:30 AM (/y8xj)

159 Billions for Ukraine, pennies for Americans:
A New Way Forward and you're not included, America.

Posted by: People's Hippo Voice at October 01, 2024 11:30 AM (BnEjh)

160 157 I thought it was, "Stop ordering those second beers so we can travel more!"
Posted by: Bulgaroctonus at October 01, 2024 11:29 AM (v6JzV)
++++
TJM doesn't drink beer anymore. He's beefing up for his cruise.
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at October 01, 2024 11:30 AM (HnUIn)

========

I do some drinkin' on the weekends!

But yeah. Soon, I'll be going all fasting all the time. Beer will be right out!

Maybe I can have some vodka waters.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, terrorizing teenagers with Michael Myers at October 01, 2024 11:31 AM (GBKbO)

161 Posted by: Archimedes at October 01, 2024 11:27 AM (xCA6C)

And if they can’t due to age or IQ, then what?

You’re asking guys that keep the country running, provide for their families, pay taxes to just lay down on a profession they’ve been in all their lives? Especially to AI, which as I mentioned could end up running the show if certain people get their way.

Posted by: thathalfrican - The One at October 01, 2024 11:31 AM (eZwyX)

162 Maybe I can have some vodka waters.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, terrorizing teenagers with Michael Myers at October 01, 2024 11:31 AM (GBKbO)
++++
Redundant.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at October 01, 2024 11:31 AM (HnUIn)

163 Well ... I have exotic tastes in watches too. So no Timex, lol.
Posted by: Doctor Elric the Blade at October 01, 2024 11:22 AM (iFTx/)

========

My brother, who lives in Manhattan, told us a story once about how he briefly dated a mafia princess who offered to go and buy him a $15,000 watch on a date once. He declined.

I believe very little of the story (it goes on to include the girl disappearing from her car for a while and coming back scuffed up after having gotten into a fight), but it's fun to hear.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, terrorizing teenagers with Michael Myers at October 01, 2024 11:23 AM (GBKbO)
_______

Most likely there was large amounts of booze involved and maybe some heavy drugs (perhaps supplied by the mafia princess) and he hallucinated most of it. But who knows, maybe it's true.

Posted by: Doctor Elric the Blade at October 01, 2024 11:31 AM (iFTx/)

164 I'm starting to wonder how expensive shipping is.
Posted by: The Central Scrutinizer
----------

right now, containers from Asia to West Coast Port is $6,800/container. 6-9 months ago is was $2,800.

Posted by: WisRich at October 01, 2024 11:32 AM (G0vdT)

165 I do some drinkin' on the weekends!

But yeah. Soon, I'll be going all fasting all the time. Beer will be right out!

Maybe I can have some vodka waters.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, terrorizing teenagers with Michael Myers at October 01, 2024 11:31 AM (GBKbO)

I can attest that the South Beach Diet works and it's terribly onerous, in comparison to Keto or Atkins.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, Vote but also buy ammo at October 01, 2024 11:32 AM (xcxpd)

166 Alright I’ll bite. What happens when AI is able to replace almost every blue collar job and some white collar jobs?

Posted by: thathalfrican

It never will. It would have to become sentient.
Hell, you can write a rulebook now and I'll figure a workaround over something you forgot to cover. Because you can't cover every eventuality. Some you may have not even thought of.

Posted by: rickb223 Gold & Silver Spot Prices at October 01, 2024 11:32 AM (yL/az)

167 Five people using one machine to do the work of twenty can generate more wealth and thus get paid more than five people doing the work of one person because none of them can get fired.
Posted by: Warai-otoko at October 01, 2024 11:27 AM (DDGz9)

Except they don't typically get paid more for generating that wealth. They get a sub-inflation rate increase in pay, if they're lucky, or replaced by illegals or H1Bs eventually to make the labor costs even cheaper for the company.

Posted by: Stop pretending BigCorp is moral or even rational at October 01, 2024 11:32 AM (OClqp)

168 "It's not about what's good for the country, it's about what's good for the company, and therefore benefits the national economy. Please tell me which other jobs are not allowed to be eliminated."

None of this means anything to the guy who now finds himself out of work with a family and no longer has a retirement after twenty years.

Why would he care about the benefit to the economy? Why shouldn't he bargain for better benefits and higher pay? Bargaining collectively gives him standing against the corporations who are raking in billions and paying him as little as possible and working him as hard as possible. Why is that wrong?

Just like the companies should do whatever they can to make a dollar, so should the unions. They should push as hard as possible to get as much money as possible for the service they provide. If they can kill a business to ensure no one else eliminates jobs, they should do that. Benefits of a free market.

God knows the company doesn't care about closing a plant and decimating and entire city.

Posted by: Ribbed at October 01, 2024 11:32 AM (IHRQq)

169 Posted by: Archimedes at October 01, 2024 11:25 AM (xCA6C)

Alright I’ll bite. What happens when AI is able to replace almost every blue collar job and some white collar jobs?

Excellent question, and one which will almost certainly have to be solved on a societal level. Will people have more leisure? Probably. Will some become fabulously wealthy. Almost certainly. Is redistribution the answer? My guess is that that will be a strong element of what happens.

What I do know, is that freezing an economy in amber is not the way to achieve a strong future economy. Even the PRC understands that.

Posted by: Archimedes at October 01, 2024 11:33 AM (xCA6C)

170 Jimmy's 100 today. Hoping to live long enough to vote for Kamala. Of course he could die now and vote for her two or three times instead.

I guess "Awww shucks" stupidity, jew hatred and evil were his magic elixer....

Posted by: Stateless at October 01, 2024 11:33 AM (jvJvP)

171 Just another example of the US government using NGOs to run a color revolution. The permanent government bureaucracy is the real enemy.

>>@CJBdingo25

>>"Leaked docs reveal that prior to the toppling of Bangladeshi PM Sheikh Hasina, the US govt-funded International Republican Institute trained an army of activists including rappers and “LGBTQI people,” even hosting “transgender dance performances,” to achieve a national “power shift.” Institute staff said the activists “would cooperate with IRI to destabilize Bangladesh’s politics.”

Posted by: JackStraw at October 01, 2024 11:33 AM (LkLld)

172 Posted by: Warai-otoko at October 01, 2024 11:27 AM (DDGz9)

Ok, if five guys are doing the work of one person, yeah that’s wrong.

I just think moving down this road to AI controlled everything will end up very badly for humanity.

Posted by: thathalfrican - The One at October 01, 2024 11:33 AM (eZwyX)

173 Maintaining a fleet of teaspoon operators to work at teaspoon wages because you made shovels illegal is as socialist as you can get.

Posted by: Warai-otoko at October 01, 2024 11:33 AM (DDGz9)

174 165 I can attest that the South Beach Diet works and it's terribly onerous, in comparison to Keto or Atkins.
Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, Vote but also buy ammo at October 01, 2024 11:32 AM (xcxpd)

=======

Right now is bulking. So, eggs, chicken, tuna, that sort of thing.

The last three weeks, I'll go fasting, one meal a day, to try and shave off the fat I can. Muscle mass will have been gained. Fat mass will need to go down.

If I'm lucky...abs...I'm not holding my breath, though.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, terrorizing teenagers with Michael Myers at October 01, 2024 11:33 AM (GBKbO)

175 If my wellbeing depended on maintaining teaspoon operators, I would. Telling union workers to get over their jobs being eliminated for the good of the country is about as socialist as it gets.
Posted by: Ribbed

As the fucking democrats say, "Learn to code".

Posted by: rickb223 Gold & Silver Spot Prices at October 01, 2024 11:33 AM (yL/az)

176 Sure, sure. Blue collar guys should totally all be put on the dole so people can have cheap shit built by slave and near slave labor in totalitarian countries and countries run by drug cartels, even if it makes us so self-insufficient as a nation that it poses a national security threat should things go sideways.

Posted by: Kevin Williamson said it best: "Please die." at October 01, 2024 11:34 AM (UGyV5)

177 147 Posted by: Archimedes at October 01, 2024 11:25 AM (xCA6C)

Alright I’ll bite. What happens when AI is able to replace almost every blue collar job and some white collar jobs?

Posted by: thathalfrican - The One at October 01, 2024 11:27 AM (eZwyX)

Funemployment?

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, Vote but also buy ammo at October 01, 2024 11:34 AM (xcxpd)

178
"But she's a "Brat" or something and stars love her !"

Are we sure that Kamala didn't mean that she's a bratwurst?

Cuz that makes a lot more sense than some 60 year old blowjob hag running around calling herself a cute, little, teenagery mean girl brat.

Posted by: naturalfake at October 01, 2024 11:34 AM (eDfFs)

179 It never will. It would have to become sentient.

Ya know, I said something similar about chess programs back in the '80s. It could be that a lot of things that we think require "intelligence" just require computing power.

Posted by: Oddbob at October 01, 2024 11:34 AM (/y8xj)

180 Trump is rebranding the R party into a slightly right of center populist party. The Junta may dominate the D party but it's bleeding actual voters.

Posted by: Ignoramus at October 01, 2024 11:34 AM (nFx0I)

181 Right now is bulking. So, eggs, chicken, tuna, that sort of thing.

The last three weeks, I'll go fasting, one meal a day, to try and shave off the fat I can. Muscle mass will have been gained. Fat mass will need to go down.

If I'm lucky...abs...I'm not holding my breath, though.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, t

TJM gonna be all vascular.

Posted by: BruceWayne at October 01, 2024 11:34 AM (CIS44)

182 I demand a 77% pay raise for my comments or I'm going on strike.

Posted by: fd at October 01, 2024 11:34 AM (vFG9F)

183 Just like the companies should do whatever they can to make a dollar, so should the unions. They should push as hard as possible to get as much money as possible for the service they provide. If they can kill a business to ensure no one else eliminates jobs, they should do that. Benefits of a free market.

God knows the company doesn't care about closing a plant and decimating and entire city.

Posted by: Ribbed at October 01, 2024 11:32 AM (IHRQq)

There's plenty to go around.

We just don't act like it.

Posted by: The Central Scrutinizer at October 01, 2024 11:35 AM (KbCG3)

184 And about driving in the '10s.

Posted by: Oddbob at October 01, 2024 11:35 AM (/y8xj)

185 176 Sure, sure. Blue collar guys should totally all be put on the dole so people can have cheap shit built by slave and near slave labor in totalitarian countries and countries run by drug cartels, even if it makes us so self-insufficient as a nation that it poses a national security threat should things go sideways.

one approach to solving the root causes of illegal immigration: crush america so that no one wants to come here anymore.

Posted by: anachronda at October 01, 2024 11:35 AM (sGtp+)

186 Also, a 77% pay raise of all the Cobs.

Posted by: fd at October 01, 2024 11:35 AM (vFG9F)

187 Also, a 77% pay raise of all the Cobs.
Posted by: fd a

and dental

Posted by: BruceWayne at October 01, 2024 11:36 AM (CIS44)

188 In the socialist utopia the Democrats dream of nobody but a select few have to work. Automation is king.

And they see themselves as the operators of said automation. Picking and choosing who gets what. Pushing buttons, clicking a mouse to "make it so."

The rest of us on the other hand.....

Posted by: Martini Farmer at October 01, 2024 11:36 AM (Q4IgG)

189 Except they don't typically get paid more for generating that wealth. They get a sub-inflation rate increase in pay, if they're lucky, or replaced by illegals or H1Bs eventually to make the labor costs even cheaper for the company.
Posted by: Stop pretending BigCorp is moral or even rational at October 01, 2024 11:32 AM (OClqp)

I'm not pretending anything. I agree with that statement entirely.

Artificial jobs and ignorant management are both horrendously bad for wealth generation.

Posted by: Warai-otoko at October 01, 2024 11:36 AM (DDGz9)

190 Posted by: Archimedes at October 01, 2024 11:33 AM (xCA6C)

That’s fair.

Humans are more than an economic unit. Boiling everything and everyone down to a number I think is a mistake.

Then again I don’t know much.

Posted by: thathalfrican - The One at October 01, 2024 11:36 AM (eZwyX)

191 "and dental
Posted by: BruceWayne"

Part of negotiating is having reasonable expectations.

Posted by: fd at October 01, 2024 11:37 AM (vFG9F)

192 Ya know, I said something similar about chess programs back in the '80s. It could be that a lot of things that we think require "intelligence" just require computing power.
Posted by: Oddbob at October 01, 2024 11:34 AM (/y8xj)
++++
Invention is a problem. They can't do it. AI is uncreative. We don't know how creativity works. We don't know how thought works, either. We can't synthesize either, and we haven't. AI can never break out of its frame (or overcome its biases, if you prefer).

Take any given solved problem from the past. Say, for example, speed and range of aircraft. Give an AI all data as of, say, 1935 and ask it to optimize aircraft design for speed and range. It will churn out tremendous, meaningful improvements in both, but they will all be ultimately marginal. The AI won't invent the jet engine. It can't. It's uncreative and cannot escape its reference frame.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at October 01, 2024 11:37 AM (HnUIn)

193 191 "and dental
Posted by: BruceWayne"

Part of negotiating is having reasonable expectations.
Posted by: fd at October 01, 2024 11:37 AM (vFG9F)

Lisa needs braces!

Posted by: The Central Scrutinizer at October 01, 2024 11:38 AM (KbCG3)

194 181 TJM gonna be all vascular.

vascularity! vascularity!

Posted by: father mulcahy at October 01, 2024 11:38 AM (sGtp+)

195 153 Telling union workers to get over their jobs being eliminated for the good of the country is about as socialist as it gets.

It's not about what's good for the country, it's about what's good for the company, and therefore benefits the national economy. (yeah, yeah, GM)

Please tell me which other jobs are not allowed to be eliminated.
Posted by: Archimedes at October 01, 2024 11:28 AM (xCA6C)
______
You lose people when you say "It's not about what's good for the country, it's about what's good for the company, and therefore benefits the national economy." Why should the rest of us care?

Sure, there is an economic benefit from free markets. But that benefit just isn't everything.

Posted by: Eeyore at October 01, 2024 11:38 AM (1bNHn)

196 >>Trump is rebranding the R party into a slightly right of center populist party. The Junta may dominate the D party but it's bleeding actual voters.

That's why they are importing millions of new ones who will in debt to the ruling party which just happens to be Democrats right now.

Posted by: JackStraw at October 01, 2024 11:38 AM (LkLld)

197 159 Billions for Ukraine, pennies for Americans:
A New Way Forward and you're not included, America.
Posted by: People's Hippo Voice at October 01, 2024 11:30 AM (BnEjh)

This should be something the Trump/Vance team picks up on. And shout it from the rooftops. This is what Brain-Dead Joe and Kameltoe are (not) doing for you.

Posted by: Our Country is Screwed at October 01, 2024 11:38 AM (N39Ws)

198 Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, Vote but also buy ammo at October 01, 2024 11:34 AM (xcxpd)

I mean if you think the day to day life on Indian reservations is that then yes

Posted by: thathalfrican - The One at October 01, 2024 11:38 AM (eZwyX)

199 I'm not pretending anything. I agree with that statement entirely.

Artificial jobs and ignorant management are both horrendously bad for wealth generation.
Posted by: Warai-otoko at October 01, 2024 11:36 AM (DDGz9)

I meant that more as a general statement, not about you in particular. Apologies for creating misunderstanding.

Posted by: Sorry bout that at October 01, 2024 11:38 AM (OClqp)

200 This busty blonde has never been in a union, but has an uncle who is:
http://tiny.cc/246ozz

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at October 01, 2024 11:38 AM (HnUIn)

201 And if they can’t due to age or IQ, then what?

You’re asking guys that keep the country running, provide for their families, pay taxes to just lay down on a profession they’ve been in all their lives? Especially to AI, which as I mentioned could end up running the show if certain people get their way.

See my #169.

None of this means anything to the guy who now finds himself out of work with a family and no longer has a retirement after twenty years...Why would he care about the benefit to the economy?

Just like the companies should do whatever they can to make a dollar, so should the unions. They should push as hard as possible to get as much money as possible for the service they provide. If they can kill a business to ensure no one else eliminates jobs, they should do that.

What the union is doing is legalized extortion. They're preventing anyone else from doing the job, and their demands are completely decoupled from the real world. If you don't think that's going to have a long term negative impact on the overall economy, and THEREFORE on them in particular, I don't know what to tell you, other than to consider the American steel industry.

Posted by: Archimedes at October 01, 2024 11:38 AM (xCA6C)

202 Ya know, I said something similar about chess programs back in the '80s. It could be that a lot of things that we think require "intelligence" just require computing power.
Posted by: Oddbob

Chess is a certain sized board with a certain amount of squares. Moves are limited.

You can program for every eventuality.

How many had "Mossad Sells Exploding Pagers to Hezbollah" on their bingo card?

Posted by: rickb223 Gold & Silver Spot Prices at October 01, 2024 11:38 AM (yL/az)

203 "As the fucking democrats say, Learn to code."

Exactly. Fuck that guy. We have to think about those poor helpless corporate boards and the millions they're losing.

Bargaining is bargaining. I think the jobs that they can save should be saved in the name of contract negotiation. You don't have to like it, but you don't have to buy their product.

Posted by: Ribbed at October 01, 2024 11:39 AM (IHRQq)

204 That "brat" thing was one of the dumbest political marketing/branding idiocies I've seen in a long time. Someone actually thought it was a good idea. That person is too dumb to breathe. Incredibly, the leftwing media didn't realize how stupid "brat" was, and dutifully NPCed the line until it became blatantly obvious how stupid it was.

Posted by: Doctor Elric the Blade at October 01, 2024 11:39 AM (iFTx/)

205 57
‘ Biden, who of course won four years ago as sort of that union guy, "Union Joe," right? He won by 19 points. ’

With the rampant election fraud in 2020, I don’t think anyone can honestly say whether FJB won the union vote or by what margin.

Posted by: Dr. Claw at October 01, 2024 11:39 AM (jbnUc)

206 192 The AI won't invent the jet engine. It can't. It's uncreative and cannot escape its reference frame.

well, as anyone who has read rudy rucker knows, teaching a robot to bop is a dangerous thing.

Posted by: anachronda at October 01, 2024 11:39 AM (sGtp+)

207 I've been trying to work out a gut-level analysis of the difference between the two campaigns.

But, it really is as simple as "authoritarian vs. freedom"

You are supposed to vote for her because of what she is (black) and what she has been awarded (jobs). And give her even greater awards for nothing.
Nothing for you.
Nothing for America.

Trump, OTOH, tells you how you will benefit if he wins.

Posted by: People's Hippo Voice at October 01, 2024 11:40 AM (BnEjh)

208 200 This busty blonde has never been in a union, but has an uncle who is:
http://tiny.cc/246ozz
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at October 01, 2024 11:38 AM (HnUIn)

M-4, your next assignment is to bring her to me.

Posted by: Dr. Richard Daystrom at October 01, 2024 11:40 AM (LxER7)

209 "What the union is doing is legalized extortion. They're preventing anyone else from doing the job, and their demands are completely decoupled from the real world. If you don't think that's going to have a long term negative impact on the overall economy, and THEREFORE on them in particular, I don't know what to tell you, other than to consider the American steel industry."

I don't think the union guy about to lose his job should have to take your concerns into consideration any more than you are doing to him.

Posted by: Ribbed at October 01, 2024 11:40 AM (IHRQq)

210 I do some drinkin' on the weekends!

But yeah. Soon, I'll be going all fasting all the time. Beer will be right out!

Maybe I can have some vodka waters.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, terrorizing teenagers with Michael Myers at October 01, 2024 11:31 AM (GBKbO)

I don't think I'll ever go to meet you anymore. I couldn't take the side-by-side comparison.

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing (aka Eloquent Depression) at October 01, 2024 11:40 AM (Q0kLU)

211 Donald Trump understands the anger of the American worker, and has made clear his desire to put them first. If that means tariffs... so be it. American jobs are more important than incremental decreases in labor costs when manufacturing is offshore.

It is not just manufacturing jobs which are offshore. Engineering jobs have been outsourced by the hundreds, maybe thousands over the past 4 years at all auto companies.

The Plandemic "new normal" of remote work allowed all the auto companies to layoff American citizen direct employee engineers by the hundreds and replace them with cheap "engineers" working remotely in Mexico, Brazil and India. "Engineers" with no experience, no knowledge, no training and no expertise. And in my experience working with some of them, the majority of them seem to have little to no physical knowledge of an automobile or how it's designed or built. Not to mention all are lacking in work ethic.

Not saving on labor costs when you go cheap on product development and cause major issues with lack of quality and design, causing major issues at the vehicle assembly plants during builds.

Posted by: Clyde Shelton at October 01, 2024 11:40 AM (P5BPp)

212 ... What the union is doing is legalized extortion. They're preventing anyone else from doing the job, and their demands are completely decoupled from the real world. If you don't think that's going to have a long term negative impact on the overall economy, and THEREFORE on them in particular, I don't know what to tell you, other than to consider the American steel industry.
Posted by: Archimedes at October 01, 2024 11:38 AM (xCA6C)
++++
That's only because there's a stacked deck, and I agree fully that the stacked deck needs to be undone.

On paper, it is adversarial but not necessarily unbalanced. The special protections one of the adversaries - the unions - get tip the balance, often significantly. The NLRB is totally captive, for example.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at October 01, 2024 11:40 AM (HnUIn)

213 207 I've been trying to work out a gut-level analysis of the difference between the two campaigns.

But, it really is as simple as "authoritarian vs. freedom"

You are supposed to vote for her because of what she is (black) and what she has been awarded (jobs). And give her even greater awards for nothing.
Nothing for you.
Nothing for America.

Trump, OTOH, tells you how you will benefit if he wins.
Posted by: People's Hippo Voice at October 01, 2024 11:40 AM (BnEjh)

MAGA vs. I'm With Her

Posted by: The Central Scrutinizer at October 01, 2024 11:40 AM (KbCG3)

214 177 147 Posted by: Archimedes at October 01, 2024 11:25 AM (xCA6C)

Alright I’ll bite. What happens when AI is able to replace almost every blue collar job and some white collar jobs?

Posted by: thathalfrican - The One at October 01, 2024 11:27 AM (eZwyX)

Funemployment?
Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, Vote but also buy ammo at October 01, 2024 11:34 AM (xcxpd)
______
You will own nothing, and you will be happy.

YOU VILL BE HAPPY!

Posted by: Eeyore at October 01, 2024 11:40 AM (1bNHn)

215 Unions by now ought to realize that their Democrat "allies" are binging in all their low-wage competition via open borders, and-

from the other side of things promoting the exit of their jobs to China, etc-

and from the third side, eliminating the need to pay wages by encouraging the building of robots to handle all the labor-intensive work and BONUS! they don't require wages or benefits or vacations.

If Unions weren't anything more than a grift, they'd be voting Trump 100% and trying to handle some of these things for their membership.

But.....nope.

Posted by: naturalfake at October 01, 2024 11:40 AM (eDfFs)

216 "You can park a fleet of buses in the gap between the two."

Fact check: True. I may have jumped a step or two but once you get there it is no longer over the horizon.

Look at Harley Davidson. The misinformed were castigating for wanting to build a factory overseas but it was the steel tariffs that caused a retaliation against them by Europe. (separate issue from the woke BS they pulled) Tariffs typically "save" jobs at the cost of 800k each while jobs in other industries are lost. There is lots of evidence there. The best option instead of managing trade is to get the Feds out of business regulation as much as possible. But tariffs are politically much easier and economically much, much stupider so you can bet politicians, along with the poorly instructed, will be all for them.

Posted by: Earl Schlobodowicz at October 01, 2024 11:41 AM (P7Iz+)

217 137 Also mentioned she went into cooking mode which is great because who needs to read all the briefing papers stacking up on her desk.
Posted by: WisRich at October 01, 2024 11:24 AM (G0vdT)

A pork roast after saying she got the "call" from Joe at breakfast and was cooking bacon for her Nieces... Pork roast and bacon.. For her Jewish Husband ?
Posted by: It's me donna at October 01, 2024 11:25 AM (IyPmt)
______
Jewish =/= kosher. Read a food thread here.

Posted by: Eeyore at October 01, 2024 11:41 AM (1bNHn)

218 "Humans are more than an economic unit. Boiling everything and everyone down to a number I think is a mistake.

Posted by: thathalfrican - The One

WTF? You will own nothing and be happy.

Posted by: WEF at October 01, 2024 11:41 AM (GUOwU)

219 Billions for Ukraine, pennies for Americans:
A New Way Forward and you're not included, America.

The function of the US Government Helsinki Commission is to constantly denounce Russia, but I found this tweet from them pretty funny:

Corruption is baked into Russian business, politics, and everyday life. The Kremlin network of crime and patronage ensures that loyalty to the regime is rewarded and disloyalty is punished. Doing business with Russia is both impractical and unethical. 4/11

As opposed to Ukraine?

Posted by: The ARC of History! at October 01, 2024 11:41 AM (uxCna)

220 >>Something I've wondered about occasionally, why is the relationship between employee and employer always an adversarial one?

It isn't. And it never was until Marx came along and pissed in the well.

Posted by: garrett at October 01, 2024 11:42 AM (QJkDb)

221 We don't know how thought works, either.
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!)

When I was majoring in linguistics in the '80s, there were a lot of AI guys in some of my classes (i.e., semantics) trying to figure out this very thing by gaining insight into human language.

Posted by: Bulgaroctonus at October 01, 2024 11:42 AM (v6JzV)

222

I do every week

Posted by: It's me donna at October 01, 2024 11:42 AM (IyPmt)

223 Exactly. Fuck that guy. We have to think about those poor helpless corporate boards and the millions they're losing.
Posted by: Ribbed at October 01, 2024 11:39 AM (IHRQq)

My God, Brad might have to sell his Bugatti and downsize to 12,000 square feet! You're a monster!

Posted by: You inhuman fiend! at October 01, 2024 11:42 AM (OClqp)

224 The giggly-retard tone is offputting when Americans are worried about where their next paycheck is coming from and whether it will be enough to buy a week's worth of groceries.

Exactly. Kamala (aka "Ed the Hyena") isn't "cute" right now.

Posted by: Grumpy and Recalcitrant at October 01, 2024 11:43 AM (O7YUW)

225 222

I do every week
Posted by: It's me donna at October 01, 2024 11:42 AM (IyPmt)

That was for # 217

Posted by: It's me donna at October 01, 2024 11:43 AM (IyPmt)

226 "why is the relationship between employee and employer always an adversarial one?
"

'cause that guy is an asshole.

Posted by: fd at October 01, 2024 11:43 AM (vFG9F)

227 We don't know how creativity works.
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at October 01, 2024 11:37 AM (HnUIn)

"Creativity is intelligence having fun"

Albert Einstein

Posted by: Madamemayhem (uppity wench) at October 01, 2024 11:43 AM (4XwPj)

228 178 "But she's a "Brat" or something and stars love her !"

Are we sure that Kamala didn't mean that she's a bratwurst?

is typo. is supposed to be брат.

Posted by: anachronda at October 01, 2024 11:43 AM (sGtp+)

229
I'm all for technology, spent 30 years writing code. But as the saying goes, 'You could tell the pioneers, they were the ones with an arrow sticking out of their backs."

When you're talking about an AI controlled robot arm swinging around a loaded container weighing 60,000 pound, I'm sure the union guys can figure they're little more then a bug getting smashed if something goes wrong.

Let the 'pioneers' in other countries go first and prove the tech works first. Give it six years to prove itself.

Posted by: Divide by Zero at October 01, 2024 11:43 AM (RKVpM)

230 Invention is a problem. They can't do it. AI is uncreative.

Granted. But how many jobs actually require real creativity? Even some jobs that we think of as "creative" may not really be. For example, programming is not really a task of finding a solution; it's mostly a task of figuring out the problem. Once it's defined sufficiently, deriving the solution might be automatable.

Posted by: Oddbob at October 01, 2024 11:43 AM (/y8xj)

231 Slow down, you guys, I'm only one man responding and my typing isn't the best.

I just think moving down this road to AI controlled everything will end up very badly for humanity.

It is absolutely a concern I share with you.

You lose people when you say "It's not about what's good for the country, it's about what's good for the company, and therefore benefits the national economy." Why should the rest of us care?

Sure, there is an economic benefit from free markets. But that benefit just isn't everything.

When people talk about preserving a set of jobs, they don't consider the impact on the overall economy and therefore many more jobs than just the specific set of jobs in question. If the last 120 years have taught us anything, it's that you can't freeze the job market without doing tremendous damage to more jobs than those you benefit.

Posted by: Archimedes at October 01, 2024 11:43 AM (xCA6C)

232 Is the AI ready? That's a different question. The point is that the dockworkers are holding America's economy hostage. That won't change in 6 years.
Posted by: Archimedes at October 01, 2024 11:22 AM (xCA6C)

For something like a dockyard, no... it isn't ready. Automation CAN work reasonably well when there are basically no variables. Different size ships, different scale loads, different weather, every variable raises the necessary complexity exponentially. It's also harder to hack a dock worker, or cut off power to a dockworker, or blow out a component of a dockworker shutting down all work.

Would the efficiency gain help lower prices? Maybe... right up until something goes wrong. Sometimes, trusting skilled labor is a better choice than trusting a programmer who doesn't REALLY understand what the job entails (I say that as a software engineer).

Posted by: I used to have a different nic at October 01, 2024 11:44 AM (U7wke)

233 Part of my intro to programming in the real world was writing some code in Apple Basic (Apple IIc, early 80s) to take in a price, and a percentage discount, and print a check for the amount after discount, rounding up or down as needed. It worked for everything except the combination of $12.50 price and a 35% discount. It would not round to two places under those conditions. Showed a friend with more experience the code and he couldn't see anything wrong with it either. So why wouldn't it work? Never knew. Just wrote a few lines to hard-code amount for that condition and let it go.

Something in the chip architecture itself? Never knew. But the memory always gives me pause when I think about AI.

Posted by: Just Some Guy at October 01, 2024 11:44 AM (q3u5l)

234 Most union hard cores are dumb as fuck.

Posted by: DOYLE at October 01, 2024 11:44 AM (Z8Yh2)

235 ... Tariffs typically "save" jobs at the cost of 800k each while jobs in other industries are lost. There is lots of evidence there. The best option instead of managing trade is to get the Feds out of business regulation as much as possible. ...
Posted by: Earl Schlobodowicz at October 01, 2024 11:41 AM (P7Iz+)
++++
There I disagree in part. Freeing the business environment is extremely powerful, and I support it fully.

Asymmetrical free trade is, however, not a net benefit across society. Symmetrical trade is better. If there are no restrictions on my going to your country and setting up shop, or selling my goods there, or whatever, then the door should be open in the other direction. If the door is closed in the first direction, it should be closed for the return trip.

Giving a country unfettered access to your own markets and capital while *not* having equivalent unfettered access to theirs is insane. It bleeds you out.

I'm much less convinced of other potential uses, like "labor and environmental parity" tariffs. And all of the permanent or pseudo-permanent tariff schemes differ from discrete diplomatic weapon tariffs.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at October 01, 2024 11:45 AM (HnUIn)

236 196 >>Trump is rebranding the R party into a slightly right of center populist party. The Junta may dominate the D party but it's bleeding actual voters.

That's why they are importing millions of new ones who will in debt to the ruling party which just happens to be Democrats right now.
Posted by: JackStraw at October 01, 2024 11:38 AM (LkLld)

Scott Galloway (Prof G) - a marketing expert - made yet another idiotic post about how (among other things), Rs are brilliant marketers, while Ds are terrible ones. Trump is a great rebrander, but Galloway is incredibly off-base on this one. Dems have been fantastic in being the party of the Junta and the mega-wealthy, while branding Reps as the party of the rich. Legacy LIVs still buy that nonsense.

Posted by: Darrell Harris at October 01, 2024 11:45 AM (dHWOq)

237 219 Billions for Ukraine, pennies for Americans:
A New Way Forward and you're not included, America.

The function of the US Government Helsinki Commission is to constantly denounce Russia, but I found this tweet from them pretty funny:

Corruption is baked into Russian business, politics, and everyday life. The Kremlin network of crime and patronage ensures that loyalty to the regime is rewarded and disloyalty is punished. Doing business with Russia is both impractical and unethical. 4/11

As opposed to Ukraine?
Posted by: The ARC of History! at October 01, 2024 11:41 AM (uxCna)

As opposed to the US?

Look at the things our government is doing to Musk because he lets non-progressives tweet.

Posted by: Corruption Uber Alles at October 01, 2024 11:45 AM (UGyV5)

238 I meant that more as a general statement, not about you in particular. Apologies for creating misunderstanding.
Posted by: Sorry bout that at October 01, 2024 11:38 AM (OClqp)

No biggie, i didn't even take it as a slight. And the point is valid. Capitalism may be messy and unpredictable, but heavy handed top-down edicts to enforce Universal Fairness really only ever benefit the unscrupulous.

Posted by: Warai-otoko at October 01, 2024 11:46 AM (DDGz9)

239 And most importantly let’s not forget. These mega corporations, multi national corporations and their boards/owners in general do not GAF about Americans or America.

It’s all just a dollar sign to them. And I’m darker realms it’s why DEI, LGBTQ, carbon free, don’t eat meat and smart cities are being pushed from them.

They’re in on it. They make more money that way.

Posted by: thathalfrican - The One at October 01, 2024 11:46 AM (eZwyX)

240 The AI won't invent the jet engine. It can't. It's uncreative and cannot escape its reference frame.
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at October 01, 2024 11:37 AM (HnUIn)
__________

We didn't invent the jet engine either. Well, not all at once we didn't. We made small increments in knowledge and experience (and learned from failures) over thousands of years, all of which eventually culminated in the jet engine.

While I agree AI is overrated and more of a stock swindle than anything else, I'm not sure it's incapable of the sort of incremental learning and improvement that resulted in the jet engine.

Posted by: Doctor Elric the Blade at October 01, 2024 11:46 AM (iFTx/)

241 The way you traditionally improve your relations with Management, as a worker, was to be a better worker. If you are an industrious and talented worker who can take their skills to a competitor, you have power.

...or, you can encourage sloth and stupidity by letting workers Unionize.

Posted by: garrett at October 01, 2024 11:46 AM (QJkDb)

242 I have invented a Sampo. Use at you own risk.

Posted by: AI Inventorbot at October 01, 2024 11:48 AM (vFG9F)

243 "...or, you can encourage sloth and stupidity by letting workers Unionize."

Strong unions are almost always a direct result of entrenched abusive management. I don't think it's the right answer, but it's a rational one.

Posted by: Ribbed at October 01, 2024 11:48 AM (iFMeW)

244 Granted. But how many jobs actually require real creativity? Even some jobs that we think of as "creative" may not really be.

Also, AI may be good enough for a first pass.

For example, in law firms, associates write legal memos, which partners review before sending to clients.

AI could easily replace the associates, and the partners could still review the memos to make sure the AI got it right.

Posted by: The ARC of History! at October 01, 2024 11:48 AM (uxCna)

245 ...Asymmetrical free trade is, however, not a net benefit across society. Symmetrical trade is better. If there are no restrictions on my going to your country and setting up shop, or selling my goods there, or whatever, then the door should be open in the other direction. If the door is closed in the first direction, it should be closed for the return trip.

Giving a country unfettered access to your own markets and capital while *not* having equivalent unfettered access to theirs is insane. It bleeds you out.

I'm much less convinced of other potential uses, like "labor and environmental parity" tariffs. And all of the permanent or pseudo-permanent tariff schemes differ from discrete diplomatic weapon tariffs.
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at October 01, 2024 11:45 AM (HnUIn)

Mannix, I fully agree with this. Fortunately, Trump - who's a lot smarter than me in this regard - agrees with you as well. There are many dimensions to an international trade negotiation, and tariffs are a tool that nations have at their disposal. Nations can also uniquely tax and wage war, and that option is always open to them as well (although, of course, nations don't cavalierly wage war).

Posted by: Darrell Harris at October 01, 2024 11:48 AM (dHWOq)

246 Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at October 01, 2024 11:45 AM (HnUIn)

Free trade advocates never see the other side of it when we’re getting dicked by other nations.

“We must be free traders you see, we wouldn’t want to betray capitalism!”

Posted by: thathalfrican - The One at October 01, 2024 11:48 AM (eZwyX)

247 Granted. But how many jobs actually require real creativity? Even some jobs that we think of as "creative" may not really be. For example, programming is not really a task of finding a solution; it's mostly a task of figuring out the problem. Once it's defined sufficiently, deriving the solution might be automatable.
Posted by: Oddbob at October 01, 2024 11:43 AM (/y8xj)
++++
True enough. Most work is repetitive, but that doesn't mean that most *jobs* are repetitive. There are examples of that, and most of those jobs have been automated away already. There are some office jobs that are also purely repetitive, and they are being automated away as we speak, thanks in part to AI but also to input structuring and reducing arbitrary variability in the data.

But most jobs are a blend. There is some creative work in most things, even if it's subtle and minor. But if everything non-creative is automated away - something I think is unachievable, but nonetheless is the topic here - where do the creatives come from? Where do they experience? Where do they learn? How many middling creative types never see the light of day?

It will cause idiosyncratic risk to grow hugely.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at October 01, 2024 11:49 AM (HnUIn)

248 I don't think the union guy about to lose his job should have to take your concerns into consideration any more than you are doing to him.

To the best of my knowledge, he never has.

It is not just manufacturing jobs which are offshore. Engineering jobs have been outsourced by the hundreds, maybe thousands over the past 4 years at all auto companies.

The Plandemic "new normal" of remote work allowed all the auto companies to layoff American citizen direct employee engineers by the hundreds and replace them with cheap "engineers" working remotely in Mexico, Brazil and India. "Engineers" with no experience, no knowledge, no training and no expertise. And in my experience working with some of them, the majority of them seem to have little to no physical knowledge of an automobile or how it's designed or built. Not to mention all are lacking in work ethic.

Then they chose poorly in siting those jobs overseas, and those responsible should be fired.

Posted by: Archimedes at October 01, 2024 11:49 AM (xCA6C)

249 Chess is a certain sized board with a certain amount of squares. Moves are limited.

You can program for every eventuality.

Yes, but at the time, the solution set (i.e. possible board configurations and moves) was so large that we thought no machine could do it in a human-sized timespan and that it required human intelligence and intuition to prune the problem to a solvable size. Same for driving. We were definitely wrong for chess and the jury is still out for driving.

Posted by: Oddbob at October 01, 2024 11:49 AM (/y8xj)

250 >>Strong unions are almost always a direct result of entrenched abusive management.

Of the Union. Yes.

Posted by: garrett at October 01, 2024 11:49 AM (QJkDb)

251 124
‘ It still has traction, at least here in Maskachusetts.’

Well, shit. I guess we’ll have to write off Massachusetts then. I had such high hopes too.

Posted by: Dr. Claw at October 01, 2024 11:49 AM (jbnUc)

252 This busty blonde has never been in a union, but has an uncle who is:
http://tiny.cc/246ozz
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at October 01, 2024
*
M-4, your next assignment is to bring her to me.
Posted by: Dr. Richard Daystrom at October 01, 2024

***
That piker M-4 can't do it, but I can! For a consideration, of course.

Posted by: M-5, Learning Fast at October 01, 2024 11:49 AM (J2vNu)

253 The way you traditionally improve your relations with Management, as a worker, was to be a better worker. If you are an industrious and talented worker who can take their skills to a competitor, you have power.

That hasn't been true in a long time, at least in my experience, and I've never been in a union situation. It's all about office politics and kissing ass. Competence is not the topmost consideration. It's how well you network, and how well you get the right people to like you. And whether or not the slacker down the hall's dad goes boating with the Vice President every Saturday to know whether you or slacker get the promotion.

Posted by: And I think we all know the answer to that one at October 01, 2024 11:50 AM (OClqp)

254 Posted by: The ARC of History! at October 01, 2024 11:48 AM (uxCna)

Just wait until AI is doing preliminary diagnosis in hospitals.

Posted by: thathalfrican - The One at October 01, 2024 11:50 AM (eZwyX)

255 If your aim is a shittier product, produced with more expense and less productivity, Unions are your answer.

Posted by: garrett at October 01, 2024 11:50 AM (QJkDb)

256 But she's a "Brat" or something and stars love her !
Posted by: It's me donna at

they sure left that Brat shit in the dust real quick.

--

Seriously, WTF does that even mean? She's a "Brat?"

Posted by: Lady in Black at October 01, 2024 11:50 AM (wFTTN)

257 For example, in law firms, associates write legal memos, which partners review before sending to clients.

AI could easily replace the associates, and the partners could still review the memos to make sure the AI got it right.
Posted by: The ARC of History! at October 01, 2024 11:48 AM (uxCna)

But if you never learn to write a good memo as an associate, you'll never learn to review a memo for its quality as a partner.

Posted by: Zombie Robbo the Llama Butcher at October 01, 2024 11:50 AM (LxER7)

258 256 But she's a "Brat" or something and stars love her !
Posted by: It's me donna at

they sure left that Brat shit in the dust real quick.

--

Seriously, WTF does that even mean? She's a "Brat?"
Posted by: Lady in Black at October 01, 2024 11:50 AM (wFTTN)

They treat their voting base for what they are:

a bunch of spoiled, dumb teenage girls.

Posted by: The Central Scrutinizer at October 01, 2024 11:51 AM (KbCG3)

259 "Of the Union. Yes."

No. Of management. Treating workers like they're expendable and little value has bargaining power, but it ends up pushing the workers to retaliate.

Posted by: Ribbed at October 01, 2024 11:51 AM (iFMeW)

260 >>That hasn't been true in a long time, at least in my experience

Portability is the answer. If you are worth more, someone will pay you more.

If you value the stability more than the advancement...well, that is your choice.

Posted by: garrett at October 01, 2024 11:51 AM (QJkDb)

261 We didn't invent the jet engine either. Well, not all at once we didn't. We made small increments in knowledge and experience (and learned from failures) over thousands of years, all of which eventually culminated in the jet engine.

While I agree AI is overrated and more of a stock swindle than anything else, I'm not sure it's incapable of the sort of incremental learning and improvement that resulted in the jet engine.
Posted by: Doctor Elric the Blade at October 01, 2024 11:46 AM (iFTx/)
++++
But the AI can't synthesize anything. None of them can. Synthesis is not understood. It will happily do as instructed in accordance with its reference frame, It will improve piston timing and compression and rake angle of propellers and flaps.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at October 01, 2024 11:51 AM (HnUIn)

262 >>>I hate this. I routinely find horror blu-rays available in Europe but not here.

I've binged-watch several television series on DVD purchased through Amazon that were out of region.

I watched them on TV via an HDMI cable from a laptop that had a DVD slot.

To watch them, I had to get into the weeds a bit on Windows and change my region from U.S. (Region 1, I think) to whatever region the DVDs were marketed to.

Don't know if it's still true, but at the time, you could only change regions on Windows a few times -- three, I think -- before Windows would lock you out of going back to region one.

I also don't know if they even make laptops with a DVD slot anymore. Maybe an external one that connects?

Posted by: one hour sober at October 01, 2024 11:51 AM (Y1sOo)

263 This busty blonde has never been in a union, but has an uncle who is:
http://tiny.cc/246ozz
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at October 01, 2024 11:38 AM (HnUIn)

Face is too plastic.

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing (aka Eloquent Depression) at October 01, 2024 11:51 AM (Q0kLU)

264 For something like a dockyard, no... it isn't ready. Automation CAN work reasonably well when there are basically no variables. Different size ships, different scale loads, different weather, every variable raises the necessary complexity exponentially. It's also harder to hack a dock worker, or cut off power to a dockworker, or blow out a component of a dockworker shutting down all work.

Would the efficiency gain help lower prices? Maybe... right up until something goes wrong. Sometimes, trusting skilled labor is a better choice than trusting a programmer who doesn't REALLY understand what the job entails (I say that as a software engineer).\

Again, that's a different question. Is it ready? Hell if I know, but "because these jobs are OURS, and should always be ours" is nonresponsive to that question.

Posted by: Archimedes at October 01, 2024 11:51 AM (xCA6C)

265 Here's what will ruin us down the road:

FACT SHEET: President Biden Announces Historic Relief to Protect Hard-Earned Pensions of Hundreds of Thousands of Union Workers and Retirees

American Rescue Plan prevents pension benefit cuts of roughly 60% in the next few years for over 350,000 Central States Pension Fund workers and retirees.

Multiemployer is the problem, with no way to 'fix' the issue on the horizon.
-----------
And also crap like this: Maryland becomes the first east coast state to adopt worker heat protections
WYPR - 88.1 FM Baltimore, September 30, 2024

"...requires all workers to have access to water, shade, and rest breaks when temperatures exceed 80 degrees."

BTW, "There is no federal heat standard." But I don't envy certain employers in certain states who've - like Maryland - created it through their state plans.

All, imo.

Posted by: L - If they'll do it with you, they'll do it to you, too at October 01, 2024 11:52 AM (NFX2v)

266 >>Scott Galloway (Prof G) - a marketing expert - made yet another idiotic post about how (among other things), Rs are brilliant marketers, while Ds are terrible ones. Trump is a great rebrander, but Galloway is incredibly off-base on this one. Dems have been fantastic in being the party of the Junta and the mega-wealthy, while branding Reps as the party of the rich. Legacy LIVs still buy that nonsense.

I think the larger problem is for the most part we still focus too much on the parties and not the power behind them. In the 1960s liberals were at war with the intel community that they claimed was spying on them and harassing them and to a large degree they were right. Republicans didn't much care because they weren't being targeted to that extreme and dirty hippies.

The 60s generation is now in charge and they are more than happy the intel community is targeting us for the same reasons and now magically they are the party of big money and endless war.

Trump's greatest appeal is that he isn't on either team. He's on the team of restoring the power to the people and both sides of the uniparty and their masters in permanent government hate him. And us.

Posted by: JackStraw at October 01, 2024 11:52 AM (LkLld)

267 I'd like to think that Trump can win this, but with all the cheating, I don't know if he can win.

Posted by: Wyatt Earp at October 01, 2024 11:52 AM (d2bW3)

268 AI could easily replace the associates, and the partners could still review the memos to make sure the AI got it right.
Posted by: The ARC of History! at October 01, 2024 11:48 AM (uxCna)

But eventually you run out of partners who actually had to build that knowledge and experience themselves by doing the shitty grunt work as associates, to know if the memo is right or not. And the next generation hasn't been learning how to do it because AI has replaced them. So then what?

Posted by: That might work but only very short term at October 01, 2024 11:52 AM (OClqp)

269 Asymmetrical free trade is, however, not a net benefit across society. Symmetrical trade is better. If there are no restrictions on my going to your country and setting up shop, or selling my goods there, or whatever, then the door should be open in the other direction. If the door is closed in the first direction, it should be closed for the return trip.

Giving a country unfettered access to your own markets and capital while *not* having equivalent unfettered access to theirs is insane. It bleeds you out.

I absolutely agree. I support Trump's tariffs as long as the ultimate goal is to force the other guys onto a level playing field. For many, though, they just become a way of life and subsidize noncompetitiveness.

Posted by: Archimedes at October 01, 2024 11:53 AM (xCA6C)

270 Posted by: garrett at October 01, 2024 11:46 AM (QJkDb)

I think it’s more complicated than that. There are absolutely people who should be fired. We’ve all encountered that.

Then again when management and the C-suite just don’t care what’s the answer? Everyone isn’t going to quit or walk out. That almost never happens anymore due to almost everything being tied to employment, benefits and such, people need protection.

I don’t like the corruption and assholes who head the unions but I understand why people join them.

Posted by: thathalfrican - The One at October 01, 2024 11:53 AM (eZwyX)

271 Same for driving. We were definitely wrong for chess and the jury is still out for driving.
Posted by: Oddbob

They stop now for a traffic cone in the roadway.
You can program to ignore the traffic cone and drive on.

How do you program to ignore a human sized traffic cone to make sure it's not a human?

Posted by: rickb223 Gold & Silver Spot Prices at October 01, 2024 11:53 AM (yL/az)

272 Chess is a certain sized board with a certain amount of squares. Moves are limited.

You can program for every eventuality.

Yes, but at the time, the solution set (i.e. possible board configurations and moves) was so large that we thought no machine could do it in a human-sized timespan and that it required human intelligence and intuition to prune the problem to a solvable size. Same for driving. We were definitely wrong for chess and the jury is still out for driving.
Posted by: Oddbob at October 01, 2024 11:49 AM (/y8xj)
________

Yes, although I think modern chess computers are dependent at least in part on knowing the board configurations and moves of tens of thousands of high-level chess games -- so they know the result of any given set of moves because it happened before. It's basically a big database search. They of course do rely on very powerful computing to analyze potential moves, but that's not the whole of it.

Posted by: Doctor Elric the Blade at October 01, 2024 11:54 AM (iFTx/)

273 In her mind.

She's one hell of an old Brat by current street standards.

Posted by: L - If they'll do it with you, they'll do it to you, too at October 01, 2024 11:54 AM (NFX2v)

274 As opposed to the US?

Look at the things our government is doing to Musk because he lets non-progressives tweet.

Yeah - as America becomes more totalitarian, denouncing other countries for their sins gets funnier.

More from the US Helsinki Commission:

Putin has subordinated the judiciary to his personal power to ensure his ideal outcomes, as punishments & to instill fear in the population. Russia’s judiciary will have to be completely rebuilt & a culture of rule of law developed where it traditionally hasn't existed. 5/11

Tell that to Judge Chutkan.

There can be no change in Russia without free and fair elections. Russia must restore free and fair elections and develop a democratic culture—but this must be built on a foundation of free speech and assembly before honest elections are possible. 6/11

While the Left increasingly talks about abolishing the First Amendment.

The US Helsinki Commission did have a tweet up denouncing Russia for interfering with the wonderful US-based World Order that we are creating, but I guess that was a little too on the nose, so they deleted it.

Posted by: The ARC of History! at October 01, 2024 11:54 AM (uxCna)

275 You need uncle Sam to tell you to bring a fucking water jug to work?

I could see a law saying they can't forbid you from bringing water, or taking reasonable breaks.... but come on. Fill up your thermos like a big boy, pack your bologna sandwich, and get your ass to work.

Posted by: Warai-otoko at October 01, 2024 11:54 AM (DDGz9)

276 While I agree AI is overrated and more of a stock swindle than anything else, I'm not sure it's incapable of the sort of incremental learning and improvement that resulted in the jet engine.

Posted by: Doctor Elric the Blade at October 01, 2024 11:46 AM (iFTx/)

Could it stumble on it after numerous iterations and experiments with differing combinations? Possibly, given the right inputs and training. Would it know what it had generated or the value? Likely not. That is a meta concern outside of the inputs and training, and so it would be lost in the mountains of other iterations and experiments.

Posted by: Comrade Flounder, Disinformation Demon at October 01, 2024 11:55 AM (i24o9)

277 ]i\This busty blonde has never been in a union, but has an uncle who is:
http://tiny.cc/246ozz
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at October 01, 2024
*
Face is too plastic.
Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing (aka Eloquent Depression) at October 01, 2024

***
Plastics are the future!

Posted by: That Guy in The Graduate at October 01, 2024 11:55 AM (J2vNu)

278 What a shame.

>>@LevineJonathan

>>NEW — Taylor Lorenz out at Washington Post 🚨🚨🚨

Posted by: JackStraw at October 01, 2024 11:55 AM (LkLld)

279 We also have to accept that any solution, whether human or automated, may not be 100.000% correct. We already do that for humans. We don't expect anyone to be perfect all the time. But somehow we demand it from automated solutions.

Posted by: Oddbob at October 01, 2024 11:55 AM (/y8xj)

280 "And the next generation hasn't been learning how to do it because AI has replaced them. So then what?
Posted by: That might work but only very short term "

EXTERMINATE

Posted by: AI Inventorbot at October 01, 2024 11:55 AM (vFG9F)

281 257 For example, in law firms, associates write legal memos, which partners review before sending to clients.

AI could easily replace the associates, and the partners could still review the memos to make sure the AI got it right.
Posted by: The ARC of History! at October 01, 2024 11:48 AM (uxCna)

People think this is true because they think law is syllogistic and logical, which is true only to a very limited extent. As a lawyer, I'm not terribly concerned about being replaced by AI, even though there's a lot of hype about AI in law right now.

Posted by: Law is a Pretty Creative Endeavor at October 01, 2024 11:56 AM (UGyV5)

282 >>Then again when management and the C-suite just don’t care what’s the answer? Everyone isn’t going to quit or walk out. That almost never happens anymore due to almost everything being tied to employment, benefits and such, people need protection.

That is a false premise. It posits that there is no alternative for a worker but the exact same job/position he or she already has.

You can always dig trenches. And digging them better and faster than the next guy is the way you graduate to filling trenches.

Posted by: garrett at October 01, 2024 11:56 AM (QJkDb)

283 "I could see a law saying they can't forbid you from bringing water, or taking reasonable breaks.... but come on. Fill up your thermos like a big boy, pack your bologna sandwich, and get your ass to work."

And I agree with that. I think the overreach is the institutionalizing of union protections and the oversight of the NLRB.

Posted by: Ribbed at October 01, 2024 11:56 AM (iFMeW)

284 Posted by: Warai-otoko at October 01, 2024 11:54 AM (DDGz9)

Yeah. That makes no sense to me either.

Posted by: thathalfrican - The One at October 01, 2024 11:56 AM (eZwyX)

285 ***
Plastics are the future!
Posted by: That Guy in The Graduate at October 01, 2024 11:55 AM (J2vNu)

He warn't wrong. I always hated that movie - Hoffman's character needed a good punch in the nads, IMHO.

Posted by: Zombie Robbo the Llama Butcher at October 01, 2024 11:56 AM (LxER7)

286 ...Trump's greatest appeal is that he isn't on either team. He's on the team of restoring the power to the people and both sides of the uniparty and their masters in permanent government hate him. And us.

Posted by: JackStraw at October 01, 2024 11:52 AM (LkLld)

This is why I think this election was won when RFKJ endorsed Trump. With that endorsement, the TEA Party Wing and the Occupy Wing have finally unified after the TARP bailouts of 2008/9 around fighting the Uniparty - which both sides now recognize and agree on.

Posted by: Darrell Harris at October 01, 2024 11:56 AM (dHWOq)

287 How do you program to ignore a human sized traffic cone to make sure it's not a human?
Posted by: rickb223 Gold & Silver Spot Prices at October 01, 2024 11:53 AM (yL/az)

It looked on Facebook in the 0.351 seconds before impact and saw that his aunt said something mean about gay people once.

Ramming Speed

Posted by: Warai-otoko at October 01, 2024 11:57 AM (DDGz9)

288 This busty blonde has never been in a union, but has an uncle who is:
http://tiny.cc/246ozz
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at October 01, 2024 11:38 AM (HnUIn)

Oh, she's been in a union or two.

Posted by: SloPitch Whiffer at October 01, 2024 11:57 AM (wzAuc)

289 "You can always dig trenches. And digging them better and faster than the next guy is the way you graduate to filling trenches."

Show of hands who is taking a 50% pay cut to improve their country and the national economy?

Posted by: Ribbed at October 01, 2024 11:58 AM (iFMeW)

290 But eventually you run out of partners who actually had to build that knowledge and experience themselves by doing the shitty grunt work as associates, to know if the memo is right or not. And the next generation hasn't been learning how to do it because AI has replaced them. So then what?

That reminds me of the concerns in the Naval Aviation community, where the "magic carpet" system has made carrier landings almost autonomous. That's great until the system goes TU for some reason, and a pilot who's never had to actually make an unassisted landing is faced with doing so or ditching.

Posted by: Archimedes at October 01, 2024 11:58 AM (xCA6C)

291 How do you program to ignore a human sized traffic cone to make sure it's not a human?

Don't know. Yet. Which is why the jury is still out. But the tech is undeniably getting better over time.

Posted by: Oddbob at October 01, 2024 11:58 AM (/y8xj)

292 The misinformed were castigating for wanting to build a factory overseas but it was the steel tariffs that caused a retaliation against them by Europe.

Historically, when a country no longer has the means to create the material needed to defend itself, that country ceases to exist. No doubt, in the glorious future world of absolute laissez-faire governance, other nations will be so overjoyed at our fucking over our population in favor of their population that this won't be the case.

Posted by: I used to have a different nic at October 01, 2024 11:58 AM (U7wke)

293 I was in the Steel Workers Union when I worked at Youngstown Steel Door making boxcar parts. Had a six week probation when they tapped you to do all the stuff the regular union guys wouldn't touch. Freakin' dangerous stuff and working with the guys who were basically unsafe to be around.

Posted by: pawn at October 01, 2024 11:58 AM (QB+5g)

294 >>Show of hands who is taking a 50% pay cut to improve their country and the national economy?

Another Canard.

You sacrifice for future personal gains. Not for the benefit of Country and Economy.

Posted by: garrett at October 01, 2024 11:59 AM (QJkDb)

295 This is why I think this election was won when RFKJ endorsed Trump. With that endorsement, the TEA Party Wing and the Occupy Wing have finally unified after the TARP bailouts of 2008/9 around fighting the Uniparty - which both sides now recognize and agree on.

Posted by: Darrell Harris at October 01, 2024 11:56 AM (dHWOq)

I think that's overly optimistic, but it would be nice if it were true.

Posted by: Comrade Flounder, Disinformation Demon at October 01, 2024 11:59 AM (i24o9)

296 >>@LevineJonathan

>>NEW — Taylor Lorenz out at Washington Post 🚨🚨🚨
Posted by: JackStraw at October 01, 2024 11:55 AM (LkLld)
----------

Even the WaPo good tired of her schtick.

Posted by: WisRich at October 01, 2024 11:59 AM (G0vdT)

297
You can always dig trenches. And digging them better and faster than the next guy is the way you graduate to filling trenches.

Posted by: garrett at October 01, 2024 11:56 AM

You think management won't say, "He's our best ditch-digger. The very best. Nobody better, not even close. No, he stays in the ditch as an example to others."

Posted by: Divide by Zero at October 01, 2024 11:59 AM (RKVpM)

298 283 "I could see a law saying they can't forbid you from bringing water, or taking reasonable breaks.... but come on. Fill up your thermos like a big boy, pack your bologna sandwich, and get your ass to work."

And I agree with that. I think the overreach is the institutionalizing of union protections and the oversight of the NLRB.
Posted by: Ribbed at October 01, 2024 11:56 AM (iFMeW)

Never failed.

If you wanted to know every single rule and regulation regarding breaks and such, find the laziest guy on the job. Every time I worked with someone like that they knew the sections and sub-sections inside and out.

Posted by: The Central Scrutinizer at October 01, 2024 11:59 AM (KbCG3)

299 Was reading somewhere this morning that union wants the "three touches rule" to remain in effect for the cranes at the ports, manned by union members, not robots, of course.

Posted by: one hour sober at October 01, 2024 11:59 AM (Y1sOo)

300 Plastics are the future!
Posted by: That Guy in The Graduate at October 01, 2024
*
He warn't wrong. I always hated that movie - Hoffman's character needed a good punch in the nads, IMHO.
Posted by: Zombie Robbo the Llama Butcher at October 01, 2024

***
I haven't rewatched it in decades. It was a groundbreaker in its day -- Hoffman as the lead was the complete opposite of the usual idea of a lead actor in a major H'wood film.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at October 01, 2024 11:59 AM (J2vNu)

301 Posted by: garrett at October 01, 2024 11:56 AM (QJkDb)

I agree with you on this.

Im just saying I understand the appeal of unions. I’ve seen it happen at my wife’s old job, all of the sudden it was mandatory to work holidays and that diktat came out of the blue. Now cooler heads prevailed, but it’s things like that that happen again and again where people say “I love my job but fuck this.”

Posted by: thathalfrican - The One at October 01, 2024 12:00 PM (eZwyX)

302 While I agree AI is overrated and more of a stock swindle than anything else, I'm not sure it's incapable of the sort of incremental learning and improvement that resulted in the jet engine.

Posted by: Doctor Elric the Blade at October 01, 2024 11:46 AM (iFTx/)

Could it stumble on it after numerous iterations and experiments with differing combinations? Possibly, given the right inputs and training. Would it know what it had generated or the value? Likely not. That is a meta concern outside of the inputs and training, and so it would be lost in the mountains of other iterations and experiments.
Posted by: Comrade Flounder, Disinformation Demon at October 01, 2024 11:55 AM (i24o9)
________

The bolded sentence is the key. Without any way to actually test the results of various iterations, there's no way for AI to "learn" in the way that humans do. AI can't build a jet engine at this point -- even incrementally -- because it can't experiment with and test the results of its creation process. I say "at this point." I think it's impossible for that capability to be introduced in the future, perhaps as part of simulations.

Posted by: Doctor Elric the Blade at October 01, 2024 12:00 PM (iFTx/)

303 Show of hands who is taking a 50% pay cut to improve their country and the national economy?
Posted by: Ribbed at October 01, 2024 11:58 AM (iFMeW)

Heh. Well, technically every wage earner in the country at this point is as we speak, between them confiscating one third and inflating away the rest.

But that's a different issue.

Posted by: Warai-otoko at October 01, 2024 12:00 PM (DDGz9)

304 >>You think management won't say, "He's our best ditch-digger. The very best. Nobody better, not even close. No, he stays in the ditch as an example to others."

Then you demand an increase in pay or you take your ditch digging talents to their competitors or start your own ditch digging firm.

Posted by: garrett at October 01, 2024 12:00 PM (QJkDb)

305 "You sacrifice for future personal gains. Not for the benefit of Country and Economy."

Exactly. Which is no more or less than the union workers should be expected to do.

Posted by: Ribbed at October 01, 2024 12:00 PM (iFMeW)

306 I say "at this point." I DON'T think it's impossible for that capability to be introduced in the future, perhaps as part of simulations.
Posted by: Doctor Elric the Blade at October 01, 2024 12:00 PM (iFTx/)

Shit, forgot to add the "DON'T" to the sentence above.

Posted by: Doctor Elric the Blade at October 01, 2024 12:01 PM (iFTx/)

307 I think it's impossible for that capability to be introduced in the future, perhaps as part of simulations.

I assume you meant "possible".

Posted by: Archimedes at October 01, 2024 12:01 PM (xCA6C)

308 We also have to accept that any solution, whether human or automated, may not be 100.000% correct. We already do that for humans. We don't expect anyone to be perfect all the time. But somehow we demand it from automated solutions.
Posted by: Oddbob

Until you can run AI thru Parris Island, it'll never be able to adapt, improvise & overcome when it's not 100% correct instead of shutting down because it's next move isn't programmed.

Posted by: rickb223 Gold & Silver Spot Prices at October 01, 2024 12:01 PM (yL/az)

309 Maybe Taylor L can file an age discrimination lawsuit.

Posted by: St Lawrence Seaway at October 01, 2024 12:02 PM (YyT8D)

310 I think it's impossible for that capability to be introduced in the future, perhaps as part of simulations.

I assume you meant "possible".
Posted by: Archimedes at October 01, 2024 12:01 PM (xCA6C)

_______

Correct! I actually was gonna add "don't" as in "don't think" but yea.

Posted by: Doctor Elric the Blade at October 01, 2024 12:02 PM (iFTx/)

311 >>NEW — Taylor Lorenz out at Washington Post 🚨🚨🚨
Posted by: JackStraw at October 01, 2024 11:55 AM (LkLld)

AGE DISCRIMINATION!

Posted by: Taylor Lorenz's lawyer at October 01, 2024 12:02 PM (PiwSw)

312 231 ...

When people talk about preserving a set of jobs, they don't consider the impact on the overall economy and therefore many more jobs than just the specific set of jobs in question. If the last 120 years have taught us anything, it's that you can't freeze the job market without doing tremendous damage to more jobs than those you benefit.

Posted by: Archimedes at October 01, 2024 11:43 AM (xCA6C)
_______
Straw man. We all know you cannot freeze the economy. But you can slow down the harm that comes from changes. "Creative destruction" is still destructive, and that needs alleviation.

We used tariffs to encourage manufacturing through most of our history, after all. I'm inclined to think a tariff should have a gradual decrease. Set it, then lower it by, say, 10% every year, until it's gone. (Use whatever numbers work.)

But the key is that, once again, economic efficiency is just not the greatest good. It's good, but not the ultimum bonum. But since the 17th C, liberals (old sense) have assumed it was.

Posted by: Eeyore at October 01, 2024 12:02 PM (1bNHn)

313 >>Exactly. Which is no more or less than the union workers should be expected to do.

You DO realize that this is the exact same argument used for Pure Democracy over a Representative Republic...right?

IF ALL Workers were of the same quality and talent, shared the exact same levels of motivation and aspirations...then sure, Unions would be a great idea.

Instead they are an organization built entirely on the concept of Equity.

Posted by: garrett at October 01, 2024 12:03 PM (QJkDb)

314 Maybe not the best time for longshoremen to go on strike.

>@ElectionWiz

>CVS HEALTH TO LAY OFF NEARLY 3,000 WORKERS — CNN

Posted by: JackStraw at October 01, 2024 12:03 PM (LkLld)

315 NEW — Taylor Lorenz out at Washington Post 🚨🚨🚨
Posted by: JackStraw at October 01, 2024 11:55 AM (LkLld)

AGE DISCRIMINATION!
Posted by: Taylor Lorenz's lawyer at October 01, 2024 12:02 PM (PiwSw)
___________

She's too young!

Posted by: Doctor Elric the Blade at October 01, 2024 12:04 PM (iFTx/)

316 Sock be gone

Posted by: 2009Refugee at October 01, 2024 12:04 PM (YyT8D)

317 bonum?

Fuggem!

Posted by: Commissar of Plenty and Lysenkoism in Solidarity with the Struggle at October 01, 2024 12:04 PM (uOLkU)

318 re. Tariffs.

Our Founders had a few words on this very subject.

Posted by: garrett at October 01, 2024 12:04 PM (QJkDb)

319 Until you can run AI thru Parris Island, it'll never be able to adapt, improvise & overcome when it's not 100% correct instead of shutting down because it's next move isn't programmed.
Posted by: rickb223 Gold & Silver Spot Prices at October 01, 2024 12:01 PM (yL/az)

It's worse than that.

It doesn't shut down when it's wrong. It doesn't even know what wrong is. It just internalizes its new little nugget of wrongness into the greater tensor of scalars that encode what garbage in gets transformed into what garbage out, and continues chugging along.

Posted by: Warai-otoko at October 01, 2024 12:04 PM (DDGz9)

320 Free trade advocates never see the other side of it when we’re getting dicked by other nations.

“We must be free traders you see, we wouldn’t want to betray capitalism!”
Posted by: thathalfrican - The One at October 01, 2024 11:48 AM (eZwyX)

Completely free trade is a matter of faith as much as pure marginal efficiency is, or for that matter, socializing the means of production.
The initial drive for free markets was the drive to end the English corn laws which restricted importation of grain to protect the market of English grain, and this was during the height of mercantilism.
If it is free trade, like between Iowa and Kansas, it is all well and good, but if it is a situation where one country is dumping underpriced goods to smother out another country's industry, it is very similar to importing slave labor to suppress wages. Both of which are not "free markets" but are in fact actual government sponsored and managed assaults on the markets.

It can be difficult to parse the difference between Adam Smith's discussion of English Wine and French Wool, and dumping steel at subsidized prices to bury a competing industry, and all that industry's supporting industries.

Posted by: Kindltot at October 01, 2024 12:04 PM (D7oie)

321 For example, in law firms, associates write legal memos, which partners review before sending to clients.

AI could easily replace the associates, and the partners could still review the memos to make sure the AI got it right.
Posted by: The ARC of History! at October 01, 2024 11:48 AM (uxCna)

People think this is true because they think law is syllogistic and logical, which is true only to a very limited extent. As a lawyer, I'm not terribly concerned about being replaced by AI, even though there's a lot of hype about AI in law right now.
Posted by: Law is a Pretty Creative Endeavor
---
Before the rise of the law schools, everyone understood lawyering was an art.
But, the law schools said it wasn't and brought in the concepts of "elements" and "factors" to scientize the law.
It's stupid.
You'll win 100% more cases being able to read people than you ever will by being an expert at the details of law.

Posted by: People's Hippo Voice at October 01, 2024 12:04 PM (BnEjh)

322 I say "at this point." I think it's impossible for that capability to be introduced in the future, perhaps as part of simulations.

Posted by: Doctor Elric the Blade at October 01, 2024 12:00 PM (iFTx/)

Again, it would be limited by its possible inputs and training. Can it be trained to recognize "value" of a heretofore unknown experimental combination, where "value" is in - currently and may well be long into the future - the eye of a human beholder?

I think that's several large technological increments down the road in the potential for programming such AI implementations.

Posted by: Comrade Flounder, Disinformation Demon at October 01, 2024 12:05 PM (i24o9)

323 Maybe not the best time for longshoremen to go on strike.

>@ElectionWiz

>CVS HEALTH TO LAY OFF NEARLY 3,000 WORKERS — CNN
Posted by: JackStraw at October 01, 2024

***
"Crazy Eddie!"

Posted by: The Moties at October 01, 2024 12:05 PM (J2vNu)

324 Then you demand an increase in pay or you take your ditch digging talents to their competitors or start your own ditch digging firm.

Posted by: garrett at October 01, 2024 12:00 PM (QJkDb)

Except the non compete they made you sign won't allow it, and the ditch digger companies have effected regulatory capture such that starting your own ditch digging firm is impossibly expensive.

Posted by: you're assuming free markets - we don't have one at October 01, 2024 12:05 PM (OClqp)

325 >>"Crazy Eddie!"

That guy's prices were insane.

Posted by: garrett at October 01, 2024 12:06 PM (QJkDb)

326 Maybe not the best time for longshoremen to go on strike.

>@ElectionWiz

>CVS HEALTH TO LAY OFF NEARLY 3,000 WORKERS — CNN
Posted by: JackStraw at October 01, 2024 12:03 PM (LkLld)
_______

I don't think this strike is as much about the usual union grievances and bullshit. I think this is mostly about fear they'll be replaced by robots. It's already happening. Just like those fecal idiots in Hollywood striking in large part because they feared being replaced by AI, and rightfully so.

Posted by: Doctor Elric the Blade at October 01, 2024 12:06 PM (iFTx/)

327 324
Except the non compete they made you sign won't allow it, and the ditch digger companies have effected regulatory capture such that starting your own ditch digging firm is impossibly expensive.
Posted by: you're assuming free markets - we don't have one at October 01, 2024 12:05 PM (OClqp)

Noncompetes are a no-no now. Can't be enforced.

Posted by: Our Country is Screwed at October 01, 2024 12:06 PM (N39Ws)

328 325 >>"Crazy Eddie!"

That guy's prices were insane.
Posted by: garrett at October 01, 2024 12:06 PM (QJkDb)

Went to school in Connecticut in the mid-80's so got both Crazy Eddie and Tom Carvel. Glad I was there.

Posted by: Zombie Robbo the Llama Butcher at October 01, 2024 12:07 PM (LxER7)

329 >>Except the non compete they made you sign

You mean the non compete that you Chose To Sign.

Posted by: garrett at October 01, 2024 12:07 PM (QJkDb)

330 243 "...or, you can encourage sloth and stupidity by letting workers Unionize."

Strong unions are almost always a direct result of entrenched abusive management. I don't think it's the right answer, but it's a rational one.
Posted by: Ribbed at October 01, 2024 11:48 AM (iFMeW)
______
True. And corrupt and incompetent are the watchwords for our society.

And there is no system, from socialism to laissez faire which will fix that.

Posted by: Eeyore at October 01, 2024 12:07 PM (1bNHn)

331 Now is not the time to go Wobbly!

Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes at October 01, 2024 12:07 PM (kpS4V)

332 314 Maybe not the best time for longshoremen to go on strike.

>@ElectionWiz

>CVS HEALTH TO LAY OFF NEARLY 3,000 WORKERS — CNN
Posted by: JackStraw at October 01, 2024 12:03 PM (LkLld)

Now they'll have more time for joy!

Posted by: The Central Scrutinizer at October 01, 2024 12:07 PM (KbCG3)

333 It just internalizes its new little nugget of wrongness into the greater tensor of scalars that encode what garbage in gets transformed into what garbage out, and continues chugging along.

Sounds like an awful lot of humans, dunnit?

Posted by: Oddbob at October 01, 2024 12:07 PM (/y8xj)

334 "Senior White House source" says an Iranian missile attack on Israel is "imminent."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xtQ59EwuSg

Posted by: Meade Lux Lewis, Domestic Terrorist at October 01, 2024 12:07 PM (paSBy)

335 Our Founders had a few words on this very subject.
Posted by: garrett at October 01, 2024 12:04 PM (QJkDb)

as did de Toqueville

Posted by: Kindltot at October 01, 2024 12:08 PM (D7oie)

336 Those photos of those grandparents huddled on the roof with their grandson moments before they were swept away to their deaths are heartbreaking.

Americans:
Huddled on the roof, praying to God they will be rescued.

Biden and Harris:
Partying with friends and vacationing on the beach.

Posted by: People's Hippo Voice at October 01, 2024 12:08 PM (BnEjh)

337 >>Went to school in Connecticut in the mid-80's so got both Crazy Eddie and Tom Carvel.

Cookie-Puss, ftw!

Some days I'd kill for a Carvel Flying Saucer.

Posted by: garrett at October 01, 2024 12:08 PM (QJkDb)

338 NO WOBBLY SHIT!

Posted by: Things I learned from Weasel at October 01, 2024 12:08 PM (vFG9F)

339 Taylor "The Worlds Oldest Tweener" Lorenz is out of a job?

It's a Festivus Miracle!

Posted by: blake - semi lurker in marginal standing (tT6L1) at October 01, 2024 12:08 PM (tT6L1)

340 >>>>>NEW — Taylor Lorenz out at Washington Post 🚨🚨🚨
Posted by: JackStraw

Bawahahahaha!

Posted by: Wyatt Earp at October 01, 2024 12:08 PM (d2bW3)

341 When people talk about preserving a set of jobs, they don't consider the impact on the overall economy and therefore many more jobs than just the specific set of jobs in question. If the last 120 years have taught us anything, it's that you can't freeze the job market without doing tremendous damage to more jobs than those you benefit.

Posted by: Archimedes at October 01, 2024 11:43 AM (xCA6C)
_______
Straw man. We all know you cannot freeze the economy. But you can slow down the harm that comes from changes. "Creative destruction" is still destructive, and that needs alleviation.

Not at all. I completely agree that it needs "alleviation", but that's not what we have here. Where is the plan for the long-term phaseout of those now-obsolete dock jobs (or at least soon to be obsolete)? Somehow, slowing down always turns into a permanent entitlement.

Posted by: Archimedes at October 01, 2024 12:08 PM (xCA6C)

342 AI could easily replace the associates, and the partners could still review the memos to make sure the AI got it right.

==

probably is some cases

Posted by: runner at October 01, 2024 12:09 PM (V13WU)

343 This has been a very good discussion today. Thanks, everyone.

Posted by: Archimedes at October 01, 2024 12:09 PM (xCA6C)

344
I remember digging a 60 foot ditch for an electric line. Needed to be two feet deep. Electrician walked along with a tape measure to make sure it was deep enough. The prick. It was. Maybe.

Diggin' ditches is no fun.

Posted by: Divide by Zero at October 01, 2024 12:09 PM (RKVpM)

345 Seriously, WTF does that even mean? She's a "Brat?"

The hot record of the summer was Charli XCX’s “brat”. Yes with the lowercase e. It’s Kamala marketing primarily to women because it’s all she knows again.

Posted by: Ian S. at October 01, 2024 12:09 PM (Eo4X3)

346 For example, in law firms, associates write legal memos, which partners review before sending to clients.

AI could easily replace the associates, and the partners could still review the memos to make sure the AI got it right.
Posted by: The ARC of History! at October 01, 2024 11:48 AM (uxCna)

People think this is true because they think law is syllogistic and logical, which is true only to a very limited extent. As a lawyer, I'm not terribly concerned about being replaced by AI, even though there's a lot of hype about AI in law right now.
Posted by: Law is a Pretty Creative Endeavor
---
Before the rise of the law schools, everyone understood lawyering was an art.
But, the law schools said it wasn't and brought in the concepts of "elements" and "factors" to scientize the law.
It's stupid.
You'll win 100% more cases being able to read people than you ever will by being an expert at the details of law.
Posted by: People's Hippo Voice at October 01, 2024 12:04 PM (BnEjh)
___

Big firms have had a version of AI for decades. They have huge databases of legal briefs, documents, contracts, deal sets, etc. A young associate always starts with one of those as a model.

Posted by: Doctor Elric the Blade at October 01, 2024 12:09 PM (iFTx/)

347 324 Except the non compete they made you sign won't allow it, and the ditch digger companies have effected regulatory capture such that starting your own ditch digging firm is impossibly expensive.
Posted by: you're assuming free

Most non competes are not enforceable, just fyi.

Posted by: Piper at October 01, 2024 12:09 PM (p4NUW)

348 Our Founders had a few words on this very subject.
Posted by: garrett at October 01, 2024 12:04 PM (QJkDb)

as did de Toqueville

Posted by: Kindltot at October 01, 2024 12:08 PM (D7oie)

I'd read that, prior to the income tax, fed was primarily funded by tariffs. I'd be interested in a return to that state of affairs.

Posted by: Comrade Flounder, Disinformation Demon at October 01, 2024 12:09 PM (i24o9)

349 Lowercase b rather.

Posted by: Ian S. at October 01, 2024 12:09 PM (Eo4X3)

350 Detroiters knew that Ollie Fretter would give you five pounds of coffee if he couldn't beat your best deal!

Posted by: All Hail Eris, She-Wolf of the 'Ettes 'Ettes at October 01, 2024 12:09 PM (kpS4V)

351 342 AI could easily replace the associates, and the partners could still review the memos to make sure the AI got it right.

==

probably is some cases
Posted by: runner at October 01, 2024 12:09 PM (V13WU)

=======

There have been several instances where lawyers have been found out using AI to write things for courts.

They were found out because the AI invented cases to refer to.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, terrorizing teenagers with Michael Myers at October 01, 2024 12:09 PM (GBKbO)

352 "IF ALL Workers were of the same quality and talent, shared the exact same levels of motivation and aspirations...then sure, Unions would be a great idea."

And companies are organizations built on attaining power and wealth through whatever means and with no regard to the impact on anyone other than themselves.

Unions are a great idea for workers because they protect them and their jobs and help them to get additional benefits. I don't understand why companies deserve our sincere regard and unions get our disdain. Companies are the ones screwing us all over right now. I don't think unions are better or good. I just think they are understandable and a reasonable response to corporate abuse.

Posted by: Ribbed at October 01, 2024 12:09 PM (iFMeW)

353 Unions suck the life out of everything they touch. They're no better than leftists on college campuses and corporate boardrooms.

Posted by: Dr Pork Chops & Bacons at October 01, 2024 12:09 PM (g8Ew8)

354 >>I don't think this strike is as much about the usual union grievances and bullshit. I think this is mostly about fear they'll be replaced by robots. It's already happening. Just like those fecal idiots in Hollywood striking in large part because they feared being replaced by AI, and rightfully so.

I agree. But I don't think a strike is going to help their cause, just the opposite.

Same thing is happening in the fast food industry. When government raises the minimum wage it just makes the fast food companies adopt automation faster.

Anyone who has ever tried to import goods by ship knows the entire process is ridiculously bloated with regulations and rules to protect union jobs. That which can't go on forever won't.

Posted by: JackStraw at October 01, 2024 12:10 PM (LkLld)

355 >>NEW — Taylor Lorenz out at Washington Post 🚨🚨🚨
Posted by: JackStraw

I hear they're doing a remake of "The Day the Clown Cried" ... Just sayin'~

Posted by: weft cut-loop at October 01, 2024 12:10 PM (IG4Id)

356 >>>NEW — Taylor Lorenz out at Washington Post 🚨🚨🚨
Posted by: JackStraw

That's ageist.

Posted by: Comrade Flounder, Disinformation Demon at October 01, 2024 12:10 PM (i24o9)

357 Big firms have had a version of AI for decades. They have huge databases of legal briefs, documents, contracts, deal sets, etc. A young associate always starts with one of those as a model.
Posted by: Doctor Elric the Blade at October 01, 2024 12:09 PM (iFTx/)

Institutional knowledge isn't really AI.

Posted by: Law is a Pretty Creative Endeavor at October 01, 2024 12:10 PM (UGyV5)

358 I remember digging a 60 foot ditch for an electric line. Needed to be two feet deep. Electrician walked along with a tape measure to make sure it was deep enough. The prick. It was. Maybe.

Diggin' ditches is no fun.

Posted by: Divide by Zero

Don't be the ditch digger.
Be the guy who runs the Ditch Witch.

Posted by: rickb223 Gold & Silver Spot Prices at October 01, 2024 12:10 PM (yL/az)

359 >>Diggin' ditches is no fun.

You can find something to be proud of in a well dug ditch.

Posted by: garrett at October 01, 2024 12:10 PM (QJkDb)

360 Most non competes are not enforceable, just fyi.

Yeah, and you get to spend tens of thousands of dollars in legal fees proving that.

Posted by: The ARC of History! at October 01, 2024 12:11 PM (uxCna)

361 You mean the non compete that you Chose To Sign.

Posted by: garrett at October 01, 2024 12:07 PM (QJkDb)

Often upon pain of being fired. Not a free choice in many instances. You operate in a very interesting tidy hypothetical world. But one that doesn't actually exist.

Posted by: Hobson strikes again at October 01, 2024 12:11 PM (OClqp)

362 I think there needs to be a distinction between private sector unions and public sector unions.

Posted by: nurse ratched at October 01, 2024 12:11 PM (o6bhz)

363 >>And companies are organizations built on attaining power and wealth through whatever means and with no regard to the impact on anyone other than themselves.

Man. How long have you lived in False Premiseville?

Posted by: garrett at October 01, 2024 12:11 PM (QJkDb)

364 I say "at this point." I think it's impossible for that capability to be introduced in the future, perhaps as part of simulations.

Posted by: Doctor Elric the Blade at October 01, 2024 12:00 PM (iFTx/)

Again, it would be limited by its possible inputs and training. Can it be trained to recognize "value" of a heretofore unknown experimental combination, where "value" is in - currently and may well be long into the future - the eye of a human beholder?

I think that's several large technological increments down the road in the potential for programming such AI implementations.
Posted by: Comrade Flounder, Disinformation Demon at October 01, 2024 12:05 PM (i24o9)
_____

I think all that is needed is a way to test A and B and determine that one is better. Then it creates a C and tests it against the winner of A and B. And so on. This sounds easy to me in concept. It's basically what we do. But how this is actually implemented is a different story. That might indeed be very difficult.

Posted by: Doctor Elric the Blade at October 01, 2024 12:12 PM (iFTx/)

365 Then they chose poorly in siting those jobs overseas, and those responsible should be fired.

Posted by: Archimedes at October 01, 2024 11:49 AM

Those making the decisions at the auto companies will not be fired, because they are doing what they have been ordered to do. Destroy the American auto industry. The goal is not to convert every gas-powered automobile owner into an EV owner. The goal is to eliminate personal travel for the non-elites altogether. When that is the goal, there is no need for an auto industry.

And, as thathalfrican stated so well:

And most importantly let’s not forget. These mega corporations, multi-national corporations and their boards/owners in general do not GAF about Americans or America. It’s all just a dollar sign to them. And I’m darker realms it’s why DEI, LGBTQ, carbon free, don’t eat meat and smart cities are being pushed from them. They’re in on it. They make more money that way."

The goal of all corporations now is not to make good products people want to buy. The goal is civilizational change to the WEF agenda.

Posted by: Clyde Shelton at October 01, 2024 12:12 PM (P5BPp)

366 Union vs. Management is awfully similar to Red Tie Party vs. Blue Tie Party.

Defend your team to the death, while they both kick back and light their cigars with your paychecks.

Posted by: Warai-otoko at October 01, 2024 12:12 PM (DDGz9)

367 Anyone who has ever tried to import goods by ship knows the entire process is ridiculously bloated with regulations and rules to protect union jobs. That which can't go on forever won't.
Posted by: JackStraw at October 01, 2024 12:10 PM (LkLld)

My company does. We have to file paperwork with the Census Bureau. Yes - that Census Bureau. For importing goods. WTF?

Posted by: Our Country is Screwed at October 01, 2024 12:12 PM (N39Ws)

368 >>Often upon pain of being fired. Not a free choice in many instances.

Is it Red Herring Day?

Posted by: garrett at October 01, 2024 12:12 PM (QJkDb)

369 There have been several instances where lawyers have been found out using AI to write things for courts.

They were found out because the AI invented cases to refer to.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, terrorizing teenagers with Michael Myers at October 01, 2024 12:09 PM (GBKbO)

AI was just messing with them !

Posted by: runner at October 01, 2024 12:12 PM (V13WU)

370 True. And corrupt and incompetent are the watchwords for our society.
And there is no system, from socialism to laissez faire which will fix that.
Posted by: Eeyore at October 01, 2024 12:07 PM (1bNHn)

It may be possible to set things up so corruption and incompetence are not prerequisites for advancement . . .

Posted by: Kindltot at October 01, 2024 12:12 PM (D7oie)

371 They were found out because the AI invented cases to refer to.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, terrorizing teenagers with Michael Myers at October 01, 2024 12:09 PM (GBKbO)

What, there was no Smith v BiggusDickus ?

Posted by: Bacon Jeff at October 01, 2024 12:13 PM (VGRuw)

372 "I think there needs to be a distinction between private sector unions and public sector unions."

I agree with this, too. Public unions should be illegal.

Posted by: Ribbed at October 01, 2024 12:13 PM (iFMeW)

373 371 They were found out because the AI invented cases to refer to.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, terrorizing teenagers with Michael Myers at October 01, 2024 12:09 PM (GBKbO)

What, there was no Smith v BiggusDickus ?
Posted by: Bacon Jeff at October 01, 2024 12:13 PM (VGRuw)

======

Roman Law has no status in American court systems.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, terrorizing teenagers with Michael Myers at October 01, 2024 12:13 PM (GBKbO)

374 @337/garrett: Cookie-Puss, ftw!

https://youtu.be/rS6ki8D7zQA

Posted by: Grumpy and Recalcitrant at October 01, 2024 12:13 PM (O7YUW)

375 I think there needs to be a distinction between private sector unions and public sector unions.
Posted by: nurse ratched a

The public sector, by being the public sector should not have unions.

Posted by: BruceWayne at October 01, 2024 12:13 PM (CIS44)

376 AI could easily replace the associates, and the partners could still review the memos to make sure the AI got it right.

==

probably is some cases
Posted by: runner at October 01, 2024 12:09 PM (V13WU)

=======

There have been several instances where lawyers have been found out using AI to write things for courts.

They were found out because the AI invented cases to refer to.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, terrorizing teenagers with Michael Myers at October 01, 2024 12:09 PM (GBKbO)
______

"Nah. Only the dumbest lawyer would ever do that."

-- Michael Cohen

Posted by: Doctor Elric the Blade at October 01, 2024 12:13 PM (iFTx/)

377 >>>>>NEW — Taylor Lorenz out at Washington Post 🚨🚨🚨
Posted by: JackStraw

The article at WashPo said she resigned and is moving to Substack.

She hadn't done anything at the Post since it launched its investigation into her over the "war criminal" tag she put on a photo where Biden is seen in the background of said photo.

But she "resigned."

Sure.

Posted by: one hour sober at October 01, 2024 12:13 PM (Y1sOo)

378 375 The public sector, by being the public sector should not have unions.
Posted by: BruceWayne at October 01, 2024 12:13 PM (CIS44)

=======

Shut up, FDR!

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, terrorizing teenagers with Michael Myers at October 01, 2024 12:14 PM (GBKbO)

379 Sheehy v Tester debate went very well for Sheehy. Popular exchange below:

SHEEHY: Well, Sen. Tester knows all of the about backroom meetings. He's been taking them for 20 years. He's the number one recipient of lobbyist cash.

TESTER: That's totally false. I'm the most transparent senator in the United States Senate.

SHEEHY: The number one recipient of lobbyist cash in the whole country, of all countries, number one. So if you want to talk about backroom meetings, while I was fighting in Afghanistan, he was eating lobbyist steak in D.C.

Campaign finance records show that Tester has spent more than $1.2 million eating at upscale steak houses in Washington DC. Tester spent more than $31K at Morton's steakhouse alone. He looks it.

Posted by: Cheri at October 01, 2024 12:14 PM (oiNtH)

380 Then they chose poorly in siting those jobs overseas, and those responsible should be fired.

Posted by: Archimedes at October 01, 2024 11:49 AM

Those making the decisions at the auto companies will not be fired, because they are doing what they have been ordered to do. Destroy the American auto industry. The goal is not to convert every gas-powered automobile owner into an EV owner. The goal is to eliminate personal travel for the non-elites altogether. When that is the goal, there is no need for an auto industry.

That's an argument against overweening big government, not Union extortion. If the government weren't involved, and the CEOs choose poorly, their company goes bankrupt, which is what should have happened in 2008, but Obama stepped in and used a hundred billion dollars of our money to bail out his profligate union buddies.

Posted by: Archimedes at October 01, 2024 12:14 PM (xCA6C)

381 You can always dig trenches. And digging them better and faster than the next guy is the way you graduate to filling trenches.

Posted by: garrett

Uh, no, you *can't* "always" dig trenches. Some folks gotta work within the limitations they have (setting aside how that may have come about). If you cut off all their options without giving them new ones, that's kind of a big problem, and it's on you.

Posted by: Brother Tim learned to stop quibbling and love the Protestant Reformation at October 01, 2024 12:14 PM (OUMaO)

382 "Taylor Lorenz out at Washington Post"

Back to school for her.

Posted by: Ribbed at October 01, 2024 12:14 PM (iFMeW)

383 The way you traditionally improve your relations with Management, as a worker, was to be a better worker. If you are an industrious and talented worker who can take their skills to a competitor, you have power.

...or, you can encourage sloth and stupidity by letting workers Unionize.
Posted by: garrett at October 01, 2024 11:46 AM (QJkDb)

One of my co-workers was just laid off. Incredibly talented, industrious, dedicated. Just one small problem.

He doesn't live in Bangalore.

Posted by: I used to have a different nic at October 01, 2024 12:14 PM (U7wke)

384 They were found out because the AI invented cases to refer to.
-------
AI was just messing with them !

One might almost -- almost -- see that as a kind of creativity.

Posted by: Oddbob at October 01, 2024 12:14 PM (/y8xj)

385 Is it Red Herring Day?

==

*checks , day ending with a "Y" ?

YES!

Posted by: runner at October 01, 2024 12:14 PM (V13WU)

386 Most non competes are not enforceable, just fyi.
Posted by: Piper at October 01, 2024 12:09 PM (p4NUW)

There was a recent FTC rule banning non competes, which was struck down by a federal judge. Historically noncompetes have been widely used and widely upheld.

Posted by: Just FYI at October 01, 2024 12:14 PM (OClqp)

387 There have been several instances where lawyers have been found out using AI to write things for courts.

They were found out because the AI invented cases to refer to.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, terrorizing teenagers with Michael Myers at October 01, 2024 12:09 PM (GBKbO)
______

"Nah. Only the dumbest lawyer would ever do that."

-- Michael Cohen
Posted by: Doctor Elric the Blade

So they're all doing it.

Posted by: rickb223 Gold & Silver Spot Prices at October 01, 2024 12:15 PM (yL/az)

388 I think all that is needed is a way to test A and B and determine that one is better. Then it creates a C and tests it against the winner of A and B. And so on. This sounds easy to me in concept. It's basically what we do. But how this is actually implemented is a different story. That might indeed be very difficult.

Posted by: Doctor Elric the Blade at October 01, 2024 12:12 PM (iFTx/)

Who defines what is "better?" And "better" can exist outside of known inputs and training. That is intersection of human creativity and invention - realizing what has been created or stumbled upon has value outside of what is already known.

If it is not already known, then it is by definition, outside of inputs and training.

Posted by: Comrade Flounder, Disinformation Demon at October 01, 2024 12:15 PM (i24o9)

389 For those of you that want this trip down memory lane, search youtube for: Vintage Carvel ice cream commercial

Posted by: Grumpy and Recalcitrant at October 01, 2024 12:15 PM (O7YUW)

390 Another one: Frank Fritz of American Pickers is mort.

Posted by: haffhowershower at October 01, 2024 12:16 PM (NMT5x)

391 Diggin' ditches is no fun.

The world needs them, though.

Posted by: Judge Smails at October 01, 2024 12:16 PM (xCA6C)

392 They were found out because the AI invented cases to refer to.
--
As opposed to flesh-and-blood lawyers who make shit up.

Including citing to cases that say the opposite of what they tell the judge it says.

Posted by: People's Hippo Voice at October 01, 2024 12:16 PM (BnEjh)

393 368 >>Often upon pain of being fired. Not a free choice in many instances.

Is it Red Herring Day?
Posted by: garrett at October 01, 2024 12:12 PM (QJkDb)

You are blisteringly ignorant. I'm sure your bubble is a nice place for you, but you are disconnected from reality.

Posted by: Seriously - you wear ignorance at October 01, 2024 12:16 PM (OClqp)

394 Roman Law has no status in American court systems.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, terrorizing teenagers with Michael Myers at October 01, 2024

***
* Raises a hand * Uh . . .

Posted by: Loozyana Civil Law at October 01, 2024 12:17 PM (J2vNu)

395 Major terrorist attack in Jaffa, just south of Tel Aviv.

Posted by: The ARC of History! at October 01, 2024 12:17 PM (uxCna)

396 The painting in the art thread is of two non-Union members and one Union member.

Posted by: Sebation Melmoth at October 01, 2024 12:18 PM (D6PGr)

397 Posted by: Piper at October 01, 2024 12:09 PM (p4NUW)

Afternoon, My Favorite Partially Pawnee Person. Mobile is relatively unscathed, I hope.

Posted by: Bulgaroctonus at October 01, 2024 12:18 PM (v6JzV)

398 Posted by: Clyde Shelton at October 01, 2024 12:12 PM (P5BPp)

Bingo. And I think it’s is being missed in the larger discussion.

Corporations and big business doesn’t care about anything but their bottom line.

Henry Ford raised the wages of his workers because he wanted them to be able to buy the product he produced.

Posted by: thathalfrican - The One at October 01, 2024 12:18 PM (eZwyX)

399 Another one: Frank Fritz of American Pickers is mort.
Posted by: haffhowershower

Maggie Smith
John Ashton
Kris Kristofferson
Pete Rose
Frank Fritz
???

Ugly milestone for the Biden Administration.

Posted by: rickb223 Gold & Silver Spot Prices at October 01, 2024 12:18 PM (yL/az)

400 Premature return key. Hate when that happens.

Posted by: Seriously - you wear ignorance like royal robes at October 01, 2024 12:18 PM (OClqp)

401 Maggie Smith
John Ashton
Kris Kristofferson
Pete Rose
Frank Fritz
???

Ugly milestone for the Biden Administration.
Posted by: rickb223 Gold & S

Dont forget Dikembe!

Posted by: BruceWayne at October 01, 2024 12:19 PM (CIS44)

402 I'd read that, prior to the income tax, fed was primarily funded by tariffs. I'd be interested in a return to that state of affairs.
Posted by: Comrade Flounder, Disinformation Demon at October 01, 2024 12:09 PM (i24o9)

that is 100% correct, the downside is that Congress was using it as a protection mechanism for American manufacture and products (Which was part of Henry Clay's American System) and jacked prices up for the consumers of the protected goods. If you can ship in British iron castings for half the price of Penn. castings, which may or may not be as good, you get pissed when those castings get a tariff on them. The income tax was an attempt to get the power to deform the market like that out of the hands of Congress, which was beset by lobbyists, and other such scum with deep pockets.

and that worked out well.

Posted by: Kindltot at October 01, 2024 12:19 PM (D7oie)

403 You mean the non compete that you Chose To Sign.

Posted by: garrett at October 01, 2024
*
Often upon pain of being fired. Not a free choice in many instances. . . .
Posted by: Hobson strikes again at October 01, 2024

***
Exactly . . . like the "choice" to accept the Clot Shot, when the alternative was to hit the street.

Posted by: Loozyana Civil Law at October 01, 2024 12:19 PM (J2vNu)

404 - Not Found

Posted by: Divide by Zero at October 01, 2024 12:19 PM (RKVpM)

405 395 Major terrorist attack in Jaffa, just south of Tel Aviv.

Seeing that too. Near the light rail station.

https://tinyurl.com/ymxdsdn3

Posted by: PA Dutchman at October 01, 2024 12:20 PM (QyT5w)

406 Maggie Smith
John Ashton
Kris Kristofferson
Pete Rose
Frank Fritz
???

Ugly milestone for the Biden Administration.
Posted by: rickb223 Gold & S

Dont forget Dikembe!
Posted by: BruceWayne

Dayum. That's right! That's six! 3x2.

Posted by: rickb223 Gold & Silver Spot Prices at October 01, 2024 12:20 PM (yL/az)

407 The whole point of embracing free market capitalism is to develop the kind of civilizational wealth that allows for puerile to make lateral moves in their employment at will, as well as climbing the ladder.

To hell with arguing over your slice of pie. Make two pies and have one each.

Then make two more and trade them for some ice cream.

Economics is only zero sum when you let thugs with guns dictate when you're allowed to make a pie. Or raise a chicken. Or dig a ditch. Or whatever.

Posted by: Warai-otoko at October 01, 2024 12:20 PM (DDGz9)

408 Posted by: Loozyana Civil Law at October 01, 2024 12:19 PM (J2vNu)

I almost lost my job to that.

I would have absolutely joined a union if they promised to protect me from THAT.

Posted by: thathalfrican - The One at October 01, 2024 12:20 PM (eZwyX)

409 But eventually you run out of partners who actually had to build that knowledge and experience themselves by doing the shitty grunt work as associates, to know if the memo is right or not. And the next generation hasn't been learning how to do it because AI has replaced them. So then what?
Posted by: That might work but only very short term at October 01, 2024 11:52 AM (OClqp)

AI senior lawyers arguing before AI judges about issues related to laws written by AI legislators and enforced by AI bureaucrats... like the T1000.

Posted by: I used to have a different nic at October 01, 2024 12:20 PM (U7wke)

410 Auto industry learned a lot of things, automation, in WWII and they wanted to employ them on assembly lines. Truman and the union put a stop to that. Set the US auto industry back twenty years.
One could argue, considering Studebaker's quality control issues, that Truman and shoddy union work (beer can rattles in door panels) put them in bankruptcy.

Posted by: Braenyard at October 01, 2024 12:20 PM (rwlGT)

411 "Major terrorist attack in Jaffa, just south of Tel Aviv."

When you're at war, what's the difference between a military action and a terrorist attack?

Posted by: Ribbed at October 01, 2024 12:20 PM (B0mGw)

412 >>You are blisteringly ignorant. I'm sure your bubble is a nice place for you, but you are disconnected from reality.

Pose a cogent argument and you will get a proper discussion.

Whine like a cunt and I will merely mock your shitty position.

Posted by: garrett at October 01, 2024 12:21 PM (QJkDb)

413 Premature return key. Hate when that happens.
Posted by: Seriously

Obligatory: THAT'S WHAT SHE SAID!

Posted by: rickb223 Gold & Silver Spot Prices at October 01, 2024 12:21 PM (yL/az)

414 Puerile?

People, phone. The word is People.

You silly electrical twat.

Posted by: Warai-otoko at October 01, 2024 12:21 PM (DDGz9)

415 AI senior lawyers arguing before AI judges about issues related to laws written by AI legislators and enforced by AI bureaucrats... like the T1000.
Posted by: I used to have a different nic at October 01, 2024 12:20 PM (U7wke)

We're gonna need a Butlerian jihad.

Posted by: Maybe more than one at October 01, 2024 12:21 PM (OClqp)

416 Posted by: Warai-otoko at October 01, 2024 12:20 PM (DDGz9)

Man I agree with you more than I disagree. We don’t live in that world, we get to that point? Lets go.

Posted by: thathalfrican - The One at October 01, 2024 12:21 PM (eZwyX)

417 Who defines what is "better?" And "better" can exist outside of known inputs and training. That is intersection of human creativity and invention - realizing what has been created or stumbled upon has value outside of what is already known.

If it is not already known, then it is by definition, outside of inputs and training.
Posted by: Comrade Flounder, Disinformation Demon at October 01, 2024 12:15 PM (i24o9)

If the question concerns a product, then the market determines what is better.

Posted by: Dr Pork Chops & Bacons at October 01, 2024 12:21 PM (g8Ew8)

418 Unions are a great idea for workers because they protect them and their jobs and help them to get additional benefits. I don't understand why companies deserve our sincere regard and unions get our disdain. Companies are the ones screwing us all over right now. I don't think unions are better or good. I just think they are understandable and a reasonable response to corporate abuse.
Posted by: Ribbed at October 01, 2024 12:09 PM (iFMeW)

Every union i have belonged to save one was deeply committed to their good friends in management, and always made sure to take their needs into consideration, since they all donated to the same political party and had the same aspirations for the future,

Posted by: Kindltot at October 01, 2024 12:22 PM (D7oie)

419 This busty blonde has never been in a union, but has an uncle who is:
http://tiny.cc/246ozz
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at October 01, 2024 11:38 AM (HnUIn)

Not a real blonde and I don't care. Killer body...

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, Vote but also buy ammo at October 01, 2024 12:22 PM (xcxpd)

420 If the question concerns a product, then the market determines what is better.
Posted by: Dr Pork Chops &

But if the decision is being made which is "better" to move to the market the market can't make that call.

Posted by: BruceWayne at October 01, 2024 12:22 PM (CIS44)

421 The buggy whip Union had to finally face reality.

Posted by: Sebation Melmoth at October 01, 2024 12:23 PM (D6PGr)

422 Buggy whip companies took the auto manufacturers to court saying they were going eliminate all equestrian related jobs.

Posted by: Braenyard at October 01, 2024 12:23 PM (rwlGT)

423 When you're at war, what's the difference between a military action and a terrorist attack?

Well, it used to be that when you captured terrorists, you could summarily execute them. We seem to have lost that distinction and now terrorists are "criminals" and treated better than prisoners of war.

Posted by: Oddbob at October 01, 2024 12:23 PM (/y8xj)

424 Posted by: Kindltot at October 01, 2024 12:22 PM (D7oie)

And this is why I understand the distrust and hatred in unions. If they worked in the way they were supposed to, I think most of us would be singing a different tune.

Posted by: thathalfrican - The One at October 01, 2024 12:23 PM (eZwyX)

425 411 "Major terrorist attack in Jaffa, just south of Tel Aviv."

When you're at war, what's the difference between a military action and a terrorist attack?
Posted by: Ribbed at October 01, 2024 12:20 PM (B0mGw)

Target selection.
Terrorists go after unarmed civilians.
Military action is directed at soldiers and their supports.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, Vote but also buy ammo at October 01, 2024 12:23 PM (xcxpd)

426 New Clint movie trailer, Juror #2:

https://is.gd/AhJH6h

Looks good.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, terrorizing teenagers with Michael Myers at October 01, 2024 12:23 PM (GBKbO)

427 "Every union i have belonged to save one was deeply committed to their good friends in management, and always made sure to take their needs into consideration, since they all donated to the same political party and had the same aspirations for the future."

How many days a week was your life literally at risk?

Posted by: Ribbed at October 01, 2024 12:23 PM (B0mGw)

428 If the question concerns a product, then the market determines what is better.

Posted by: Dr Pork Chops & Bacons at October 01, 2024 12:21 PM (g8Ew

Now code and train the AI on what the market desires. Pet rocks it will not ever "invent."

Posted by: Comrade Flounder, Disinformation Demon at October 01, 2024 12:24 PM (i24o9)

429 Posted by: garrett at October 01, 2024 12:21 PM (QJkDb)

You argue like a leftist. Unknowing references to logical fallacies that you don't actually know how to work like they're some kind of trump card, and running right into ad hominem attacks without responding with anything other then brain-dead filth. You're an embarrassment.

Posted by: Perhaps it's not my position or argumentation that's shitty at October 01, 2024 12:24 PM (OClqp)

430 BTW, for you baseball fans, if you're not following Trever Bauer on YouTube, you're missing some fantastic content.

Inside view of baseball like you've never seen.

He's having fun in Mexico.

F the woke MLB.

Posted by: People's Hippo Voice at October 01, 2024 12:25 PM (BnEjh)

431 Y'all got a hotline or something I can call? My wife is great at pinching pennies. It's the rest of the monetary denominations that she struggles to contain.
Posted by: The Central Scrutinizer

"How can I be overdrawn? I still have checks left!"

Posted by: Jayhawkone at October 01, 2024 12:25 PM (9rPx3)

432 My father was the President of the local IAM when he worked for Boeing. I heard him grumble one night after he came home from a meeting that he had clowns to the left of him and jokers to the right.

Posted by: Sebation Melmoth at October 01, 2024 12:25 PM (D6PGr)

433 >>Every union i have belonged to save one was deeply committed to their good friends in management, and always made sure to take their needs into consideration, since they all donated to the same political party and had the same aspirations for the future,

I briefly worked for The Phone Company aka AT&T after the breakup. Heavily unionized company on the service side of the business.

We were moving our office from one floor to another in the same high rise. I filled out all the paperwork months in advance to get the phones and computers moved. The union guy never showed. I was running the office so at the end of the day I told everyone to grab their phones and pcs and move them. I had a business to run.

Next day I was served a union grievance for moving the equipment the union guy never showed up to do.

I told the union steward to kiss my ass. That was the end of that.

Posted by: JackStraw at October 01, 2024 12:25 PM (LkLld)

434 "Terrorists go after unarmed civilians.
Military action is directed at soldiers and their supports."

Eh. This might fall under the "It's wrong when they do it." clause of war doctrine.

Posted by: Ribbed at October 01, 2024 12:25 PM (B0mGw)

435 AI senior lawyers arguing before AI judges about issues related to laws written by AI legislators and enforced by AI bureaucrats... like the T1000.
Posted by: I used to have a different nic at October 01, 2024 12:20 PM (U7wke)

Dave: HAL, open the door.

HAL: I can't do that, Dave.

Posted by: Dr Pork Chops & Bacons at October 01, 2024 12:25 PM (g8Ew8)

436 most American union members are unprepared for the financial burden of a strike

This is true.
My dad worked in oil refineries his entire working life.
There was a strike, I think in the 70's. It went on and on. It was so bad, our family had to get food stamps. My parents were humiliated to have to do so.

Completely changed what my dad and mom thought about the precious unions, because, of course, the workers found out the union bosses weren't hurting in the least.

Posted by: Question Authority bumper sticker at October 01, 2024 12:26 PM (Rbu5d)

437 It appears Iran is preparing to attack Israel with ballistic missiles within hours. Meanwhile, The Jerusalem Post says young Iranians are rooting for Israel to knock out their theocratic dictatorship.

Posted by: SMOD at October 01, 2024 12:26 PM (RHGPo)

438
From an interview I heard on the radio on the way to work today, the Union workers biggest concern is the use of automation to replace workers and the job security of their future jobs, not so much the pay.

The Typewriter Ribbon Union agrees.

Posted by: Frank Barone at October 01, 2024 12:26 PM (+oR7L)

439 You argue like a leftist. Unknowing references to logical fallacies that you don't actually know how to work like they're some kind of trump card, and running right into ad hominem attacks without responding with anything other then brain-dead filth. You're an embarrassment.
Posted by: Perhaps it's not my position or argumentation that's shitty at October 01, 2024 12:24 PM (OClqp)

You mad bro?

Posted by: Sebation Melmoth at October 01, 2024 12:26 PM (D6PGr)

440 so this morning I saw a black F150 with the license plate GAINZZZ

is that one of you guys, or is gainzzz a wider spread thing

Posted by: Don Black at October 01, 2024 12:26 PM (/7KEl)

441 "How can I be overdrawn? I still have checks left!"
Posted by: Jayhawkone at October 01, 2024 12:25 PM (9rPx3)

Ah. Chick math.

Posted by: But it was on sale! I saved SO MUCH MONEY!!! at October 01, 2024 12:26 PM (OClqp)

442 Bingo. And I think it’s is being missed in the larger discussion.

Corporations and big business doesn’t care about anything but their bottom line.

Henry Ford raised the wages of his workers because he wanted them to be able to buy the product he produced.

I doubt the workers cared why Ford did it, just that he did. The wrong person making the right choice for the wrong reasons still benefits the worker.

Posted by: Archimedes at October 01, 2024 12:26 PM (xCA6C)

443 >>You argue like a leftist. Unknowing references to logical fallacies that you don't actually know how to work

Show me where I applied a logical fallacy in response to any of your bitching / input.

Wait. Don't bother.
Because you can't and I don't have the time to waste today.

Posted by: garrett at October 01, 2024 12:26 PM (QJkDb)

444 418 Unions are a great idea for workers because they protect them and their jobs and help them to get additional benefits. I don't understand why companies deserve our sincere regard and unions get our disdain. Companies are the ones screwing us all over right now. I don't think unions are better or good. I just think they are understandable and a reasonable response to corporate abuse.
Posted by: Ribbed at October 01, 2024 12:09 PM (iFMeW)

Every union i have belonged to save one was deeply committed to their good friends in management, and always made sure to take their needs into consideration, since they all donated to the same political party and had the same aspirations for the future,

Posted by: Kindltot at October 01, 2024 12:22 PM (D7oie)

This is about us, isn't it?

Posted by: AFSCME and Teachers Union; State, county city governments at October 01, 2024 12:26 PM (aBgBM)

445 Don Surber: "Kamala Harris says insomnia hit after Biden dropped out, was sleep deprived the day of Walz pick. Sleep deprived is a polite way of saying hungover."

Posted by: SMOD at October 01, 2024 12:26 PM (RHGPo)

446 I heard him grumble one night after he came home from a meeting that he had clowns to the left of him and jokers to the right.

He should have written that down. He could have made a bundle.

Posted by: Oddbob at October 01, 2024 12:26 PM (/y8xj)

447 Bauer has changed how I look at pitching.

Posted by: DOYLE at October 01, 2024 12:27 PM (Z8Yh2)

448 Oh I should add that I told the steward that we both worked for the same company and I was doing what was right for the company. He told me that he didn't work for AT&T he worked for the union.

That's the problem with unions in a nutshell.

Posted by: JackStraw at October 01, 2024 12:27 PM (LkLld)

449 And then the flounce. Like a college leftist.

Posted by: Sad but it happens at October 01, 2024 12:27 PM (OClqp)

450 He should have written that down. He could have made a bundle.
Posted by: Oddbob at October 01, 2024 12:26 PM (/y8xj)

Hah he knew he was Schumering it.

Posted by: Sebation Melmoth at October 01, 2024 12:28 PM (D6PGr)

451 and that worked out well.

Posted by: Kindltot at October 01, 2024 12:19 PM (D7oie)

Thanks for the history lesson.

Posted by: Comrade Flounder, Disinformation Demon at October 01, 2024 12:28 PM (i24o9)

452 448 Oh I should add that I told the steward that we both worked for the same company and I was doing what was right for the company. He told me that he didn't work for AT&T he worked for the union.

That's the problem with unions in a nutshell.
Posted by: JackStraw at October

Was he from a hiring hall?

Posted by: Piper at October 01, 2024 12:28 PM (p4NUW)

453 Later all.

Catch you sometime around the Quick Hits / Pre Debate Thread.

Posted by: garrett at October 01, 2024 12:29 PM (QJkDb)

454 Well... Bye.

Posted by: Random Movie Quotes at October 01, 2024 12:29 PM (Ectld)

455 The new ‘economy’ will be Five. Ten, and Twenty Year Plans. In other words, Pretend, and Make Believe.

Posted by: Eromero at October 01, 2024 12:29 PM (FuCE/)

456 When you're at war, what's the difference between a military action and a terrorist attack?
Posted by: Ribbed at October 01, 2024 12:20 PM (B0mGw)

Target selection.
Terrorists go after unarmed civilians.
Military action is directed at soldiers and their supports.
Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, Vote but also buy ammo at October 01, 2024 12:23 PM (xcxpd)

*Dresden has entered the chat*

Posted by: Dr Pork Chops & Bacons at October 01, 2024 12:29 PM (g8Ew8)

457 I don't care if it's true or not, i choose to believe that Walz got picked when Kamala was hungover and now she regrets it.

Walz is now the political equivalent of Taco Bell from Grub Hub.

Posted by: Warai-otoko at October 01, 2024 12:29 PM (DDGz9)

458 Ace be late today

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at October 01, 2024 12:30 PM (J2vNu)

459 Uh, no, you *can't* "always" dig trenches. Some folks gotta work within the limitations they have (setting aside how that may have come about). If you cut off all their options without giving them new ones, that's kind of a big problem, and it's on you.
Posted by: Brother Tim learned to stop quibbling and love the Protestant Reformation at October 01, 2024 12:14 PM (OUMaO)

the extinction of "low quality" jobs is not a function of tech improvements, it is a function of regulatory burden and inflation sucking the profit out of a business. The phenomena here is not "efficiency destroys low grade jobs" as much as "deadweight loss"

Deadweight loss is where you fire people who aren't earning their wages, and these positions generally are customer experience jobs, like box boy, bagger, gas pump jockey, restroom attendant . . . And peripheral jobs for interior customers within the business, like second mailroom clerk and a lot of smaller starter positions. Automation is something you do to try to reduce costs that otherwise would be wages and regulations just to keep the profits above zero, or whatever you need to keep operating.

Posted by: Kindltot at October 01, 2024 12:30 PM (D7oie)

460 .
NOOD Ace

Tay-Tay Lorenz Has Burned Her Last Legacy Media Bridge; Will Open a Substack

NOOD

Posted by: Grumpy and Recalcitrant at October 01, 2024 12:30 PM (O7YUW)

461 You argue like a leftist.
Posted by: Perhaps it's not my position
------------------------------------

Ad hominems and aspersions are a lose lose from the get go.

Posted by: Braenyard at October 01, 2024 12:30 PM (rwlGT)

462 Noodus Taylor L!!

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius, Dreaming of Elsewhere at October 01, 2024 12:30 PM (J2vNu)

463 "The new ‘economy’ will be Five. Ten, and Twenty Year Plans. In other words, Pretend, and Make Believe."

My company keeps making me make development plans and then eliminating the positions I'm reaching toward. Starting to take it personal.

Posted by: Ribbed at October 01, 2024 12:30 PM (Ectld)

464 Today, October 1st is the official start of Pumpkin Spice season!

Let's get those decorations out of the attic and make this place festive!

Posted by: Madamemayhem (uppity wench) at October 01, 2024 12:30 PM (4XwPj)

465 418 Unions are a great idea for workers because they protect them and their jobs and help them to get additional benefits. I don't understand why companies deserve our sincere regard and unions get our disdain. Companies are the ones screwing us all over right now. I don't think unions are better or good. I just think they are understandable and a reasonable response to corporate abuse.
Posted by: Ribbed at October 01, 2024

Oh friend. The stories I have for you. Please, ask me anything about any negotiations I have done. The unions are a business. Make zero mistake about this. Their business model is more union dues as that is how they make money. This is the ONLY thing they care about.

Posted by: Piper at October 01, 2024 12:31 PM (p4NUW)

466 Posted by: Archimedes at October 01, 2024 12:26 PM (xCA6C)

Trying to illustrate a larger point.

Posted by: thathalfrican - The One at October 01, 2024 12:31 PM (eZwyX)

467 From an interview I heard on the radio on the way to work today, the Union workers biggest concern is the use of automation to replace workers and the job security of their future jobs, not so much the pay.

The Typewriter Ribbon Union agrees.
Posted by: Frank Barone

They could have asked for just that instead of a 77% raise also.

Posted by: rickb223 Gold & Silver Spot Prices at October 01, 2024 12:31 PM (yL/az)

468 Who's the OClqp troll?

Posted by: Comrade Flounder, Disinformation Demon at October 01, 2024 12:31 PM (i24o9)

469 >>Was he from a hiring hall?

No, he was just the union rep. He did get paid by AT&T but his loyalty was to the union.

Management is far from perfect but so are unions. Both sides suck.

Posted by: JackStraw at October 01, 2024 12:31 PM (LkLld)

470 Posted by: Piper at October 01, 2024 12:31 PM (p4NUW)

Corruption all over.

Posted by: thathalfrican - The One at October 01, 2024 12:32 PM (eZwyX)

471 I don't care if it's true or not, i choose to believe that Walz got picked when Kamala was hungover and now she regrets it.

Walz is now the political equivalent of Taco Bell from Grub Hub.
Posted by: Warai-otoko at October 01, 2024 12:29 PM (DDGz9)

Except Taco Bell via Grub Hub provides value (even if marginal) for money. I don't think Walz can honestly fit even that modest description.

Posted by: A grub from grub hub maybe at October 01, 2024 12:32 PM (OClqp)

472 Dresden has entered the chat*
Posted by: Dr Pork Chops & Bacons at October 01, 2024 12:29 PM (g8Ew

Dresden was a manufacturing hub. Valid military target.

Had they firebombed Bochum, that would be different.

Posted by: Warai-otoko at October 01, 2024 12:32 PM (DDGz9)

473 Dresden has entered the chat*
Posted by: Dr Pork Chops & Bacons at October 01, 2024 12:29 PM (g8Ew

Military attack . But I also think London was a military attack. Population centers in total war assist in the war effort in many ways.

Posted by: Sebation Melmoth at October 01, 2024 12:33 PM (D6PGr)

474 452 448 Oh I should add that I told the steward that we both worked for the same company and I was doing what was right for the company. He told me that he didn't work for AT&T he worked for the union.

That's the problem with unions in a nutshell.
Posted by: JackStraw at October

Was he from a hiring hall?
Posted by: Piper at October 01, 2024 12:28 PM (p4NUW
I remember when an AT&T company, Nassau Recycle’s employees was being electioneered by CWA. They voted them in and the plant went to Mexico as I recall. Tried to warn them.

Posted by: Eromero at October 01, 2024 12:34 PM (FuCE/)

475 Literally hundreds of rocket alerts now in Israel. Looks like the Iranians have launched their rockets, IDF confirms.

Posted by: Lincolntf at October 01, 2024 12:34 PM (2cS/G)

476 2nd Notice:

NOOD has been called.

Posted by: Grumpy and Recalcitrant at October 01, 2024 12:34 PM (O7YUW)

477 Posted by: Archimedes at October 01, 2024 12:26 PM (xCA6C)

Trying to illustrate a larger point.

Ditto. Anyway, thanks for the discussion.

Posted by: Archimedes at October 01, 2024 12:34 PM (xCA6C)

478 Oh friend. The stories I have for you. Please, ask me anything about any negotiations I have done. The unions are a business. Make zero mistake about this. Their business model is more union dues as that is how they make money. This is the ONLY thing they care about.
Posted by: Piper at October 01, 2024 12:31 PM (p4NUW)
--------------

I once ran the numbers on Union dues and figured out, pretty quickly, our shop paid enough in union dues to put a lawyer on a retainer to negotiate future contracts. Our strike pay was a piddling amount, compared to what we, as a shop paid to the Teamsters.

On top of that the union officials were every bit an innumerate as the rank and file. None of them stood up and said, "Hey, what you're striking over, you will never earn back if this strike goes on more than X weeks."

Posted by: blake - semi lurker in marginal standing (tT6L1) at October 01, 2024 12:35 PM (tT6L1)

479 Next day I was served a union grievance for moving the equipment the union guy never showed up to do.

I told the union steward to kiss my ass. That was the end of that.

I helped make software for Stevedores at the port. We couldn't change ANYTHING in the software UI or appearance or the union fucks would shut down and demand "retraining." We couldn't change the color scheme to make the software color blind compliant because that would shut everything down while all the union idiots learned how to recognize the software they'd been using for years in a somewhat different color.

Posted by: bonhomme at October 01, 2024 12:37 PM (Odg76)

480 A boat plant I worked at in the south hired a couple of yankees & they started with the union bs, a few of us caught them in the break room & they decided that they didn't like working with us anymore. Outlaw all unions.

Posted by: Bob at October 01, 2024 12:38 PM (YiqZD)

481 How many days a week was your life literally at risk?
Posted by: Ribbed at October 01, 2024 12:23 PM (B0mGw)

If the state and federal government, and petty harassment from my co-workers compel me to give over a portion of my wages to an organization that colludes with my employer to screw me over, and then gives a political donation in my name to a party that plans to screw me over more, I am nothing but a resource, without recourse, solution, or a champion.
It is an extortion racket as much as Tommy coming by to pick up a portion of my receipts in a brown paper back every week because we live in the fnck you pay me economy.

Posted by: Kindltot at October 01, 2024 12:40 PM (D7oie)

482
Who's the OClqp troll?

Posted by: Comrade Flounder, Disinformation Demon at October 01, 2024 12:31 PM

I 'ran' the hash and it's only in this thread. So vpn or someone who spun up a new IP address.

Posted by: Divide by Zero at October 01, 2024 12:40 PM (RKVpM)

483 Back in the mid 70s the Teamsters called a strike against UPS, even though UPS had affirmed that whatever settlement was agreed would be retroactive to the date of the contract expiry. There was no essential need for a strike, but the union called one anyway. Our locals didn't even know exactly why they were on strike.

At the next election the union officialdom was thoroughly routed from their offices up and down the chain. Indeed, one of the local business reps came to us, hat-in-hand, looking for a job since he suddenly didn't have one.

(We hired him. The company didn't really have a beef with him personally: he'd been a decently fair opponent to us in union matters, and he was a good worker.)

Posted by: LCMS Rulz! at October 01, 2024 01:07 PM (bufu1)

484 There was a recent FTC rule banning non competes, which was struck down by a federal judge. Historically noncompetes have been widely used and widely upheld.

Posted by: Just FYI at October 01, 2024 12:14 PM (OClqp)
==
I'm way late - and I will willow it.

Completely and absolutely fucking false. And whoever told you that was a lying sack of shit - unless you just made it up.

Posted by: Black JEM at October 01, 2024 02:58 PM (GZYu7)

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