Tucker Carlson: Dropping Two Nukes to End WWII Was "Prima Facie Evil"

Tucker Carlson continues his headlong rush to the far left.

He also seems to call for denuclearization. Even better.

He showed off his newly woke philosophy for Joe Rogan, who is now certainly more rightwing than Tucker Carlson.

I love, by the way, that people on my side -- I'll just admit it, on the Right -- have spent the last 80 years defending dropping nuclear weapons on civilians. Like, are you joking? That's just, like, prima facie evil. If you can't -- 'Well, if we hadn't done that, then this, that, the other thing, that was actually a great savings' -- like, no. It's wrong to drop nuclear weapons on people, and if you find yourself arguing that it's a good thing to drop nuclear weapons on people, then you are evil. Like, it's not a tough one, right? It's not a hard call for me. So, with that in mind, like, why would you want nuclear weapons? It's like just a mindless, childish sort of intellectual exercise to justify, like, 'Oh no, it's really good because someone else could get' -- how about, no? How about spending all of your effort to prevent this from happening?

I've become less and less interested in what this conspiracy-minded wreck thinks. He's been honeydicked by Glenn Greenwald.

A lot of people support Tucker Carlson for opposing the GOP Establishment. That's great. But you know who else opposes the GOP Establishment? The far left.

And more and more of Tucker Carlson's positions are from the hard left. Nevermind his conspiratorial fascination with UFOs, which I thought was all a ratings stunt but no, he seems to really Believe.
By the end of Tucker's "evolution," he'll be telling us that Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez has "some serious ideas, which should be taken seriously."

I oppose the American Deep State. That means I now have to believe in... Vladimir Putin?!?

On Tucker Carlson, and some others of the right, I'm reminded of G.K. Chesterton's aphorism: "When men choose not to believe in God, they do not thereafter believe in nothing, they then become capable of believing in anything." I feel like a lot of people -- and I include myself in this -- long believed in (this is embarrassing) American institutions like the FBI, CIA, judiciary, and even the corporate class. (Oh Lord...)

Now we no longer believe in those things. But, as Chesterton observed, the end of belief in some things often does not result in skepticism for everything -- it often results in the former believer seeking to believe in anything else. And for some (understandably) disappointed former righties, it results in finding new beliefs in the core dogmas of the far left.

People have a need to believe, for belief makes order of chaos, and often those who abandon beliefs fly quickly into the arms of a fresh belief system. The old beliefs may have been rejected, but the need to believe remains.

Rather than waking up and deciding to no longer believe in stupid nonsense, some, like Tucker Carlson, are on a spiritual quest to find new stupid nonsense to believe in.

Below, Tucker Carlson insists he has knowledge that the intelligence agencies are blackmailing congressmen -- but also says he can't say who's confessed to being blackmailed.

I would find this more compelling if he didn't make this announcement in the same rant in which he decries the cover-up of "UAPs" -- Unidentified Aerial Pheonomenon, which is the new term for "UFOs" so you can avoid saying "UFOs."

Holy Shizzles!

🚨 Members of Congress are Terrified of Intel Agencies Planting Kiddie Porn on their Computers — Intel Committee Members and a High Ranking Sr. Elected Official Admitted it’s Happening

• Mike Pompeo is treated like a pillar or Republican Washington

“people… pic.twitter.com/XM6vaGufKF
— MJTruthUltra (@MJTruthUltra) April 20, 2024

Starting from October 8th, Tucker Carlson has consistently attacked Israel and those who supported Israel's right to self defense. I wouldn't be that bothered by that, except for the blatantly dishonest way he presents his arguments, as "I'm just asking questions" or "I just think some people ought to be concerned about America's security."

Weird how he keeps contrasting America's security with Israel's, as if the two are in deep conflict.

The "I'm just asking questions" is dishonest. What he should say, if he were an honest man, is "I've come to be deeply skeptical of Israel, and frankly, believe that their agents are behind Jeffrey Epstein and are blackmailing half of the US government."

Because that is what he's always hinting about when he talks about the corruption of the Regime. He's hinting that it's Israel behind most of it.

If he at least had the courage and integrity to state his suspicions out loud, I'd be less critical.

Because I do think Israel can and should be scrutinized. I don't like the right's reflex to say "Ah-ha, lefties, you're the real racists!," and conflate anti-Israel feelings with anti-semitism. All countries, including our own, and including Israel, are capable of acting amorally and even immorally in their own believed self-interest. No one should be blind to the deep amorality of any country, especially its institutionally-sociopathic "intelligence" bureaucracy.

I mean -- look what we've come to learn about our "best friend," the UK, these past few years.

And while I don't know that Jeffrey Epstein was an agent being run by Israel, I'm completely willing to believe it. It's not out of the question, certainly.

And certainly, it would explain a few things.

But Tucker Carlson makes me deeply mistrustful, because while it seems blatantly obvious to me that the gravamen of all his comments on Israel is his belief that Israel is secretly pulling the strings in America, he won't just say so.

He just keeps saying "I'm just asking questions."

An audience has the right to be told where you're trying to lead them.

And when someone hides something, I conclude they have reason to hide it. That is, when someone acts as if their beliefs are shameful, I believe that person is probably right about those beliefs being shameful.

Tucker Carlson seems to have some reason to hide his new improved beliefs -- and I think he's got enough self-awareness to know that spreading antisemitic "Jews control everything" conspiracy theories is slightly shameful.

I know, I know -- he's just asking questions. He doesn't have any suggested answers in mind. His mind is just a blank page.

If he has evidence to support his new suspicions, then he should present it. Just repeatedly muttering about all the congressmen who tell him this in secret isn't cutting it.

More: What is "Project Aqua"? The more you know.

There is often a very short step between "prophet" and "maniac."

Posted by: Disinformation Expert Ace at 04:10 PM

Comments

(Jump to bottom of comments)

1 He's wrong

Posted by: Formerly Virginian at April 25, 2024 04:10 PM (N1tpc)

2 Top 5?!?

Posted by: GM27, SEP Field Technician at April 25, 2024 04:12 PM (pgwxJ)

3 That doesn't mean he's wrong about everything, but I can disagree with people on one point* and still think they have valid observations elsewhere.

*It can depend on the point- some and I'll start questioning everything else you've said.

Posted by: Formerly Virginian at April 25, 2024 04:12 PM (N1tpc)

4 You know who invented the atom bomb.

Posted by: C. Tarlson at April 25, 2024 04:12 PM (9e2in)

5 Not only is he wrong, he must be smoking crack or something. Somebody has gotten to him. There is blackmail stuff or something out there.

Gonna go out on a limb but I half way expect to see a story soon that the fib has found child *pron* on his computer.

Posted by: Mister Scott (Formerly GWS) at April 25, 2024 04:12 PM (QNSds)

6 >>>1 He's wrong

sometimes it's not even that he's wrong. I can see arguments for this POV.

It's his smug dogmatic pronouncements. He shares this in common with the leftwingers he's cozying up to.

Posted by: ace at April 25, 2024 04:13 PM (KRtlO)

7 1 million not-dead Allied soldiers and 10 million not-dead Japanese civilians strongly disagree with Tu-Ca.

Posted by: GM27, SEP Field Technician at April 25, 2024 04:13 PM (pgwxJ)

8 He'll be welcomed to hell by David French, Joe Scarborough, and David Brock.

Posted by: go get your fuckin shine box at April 25, 2024 04:14 PM (kvDvI)

9 >>>3 That doesn't mean he's wrong about everything, but I can disagree with people on one point* and still think they have valid observations elsewhere.

yes, but he is becoming a very unreliable compass.

Posted by: ace at April 25, 2024 04:14 PM (KRtlO)

10 Sometimes you have to fight Evil with Evil.

The real world sucks.

Posted by: pawn at April 25, 2024 04:14 PM (QB+5g)

11 ***I love, by the way, that people on my side -- I'll just admit it, on the Right -- have spent the last 80 years defending dropping nuclear weapons on civilians. Like, are you joking? That's just, like, prima facie evil. If you can't -- 'Well, if we hadn't done that, then this, that, the other thing, that was actually a great savings' -- like, no. It's wrong to drop nuclear weapons on people, and if you find yourself arguing that it's a good thing to drop nuclear weapons on people, then you are evil.***
-------------------------------------------

Ha! I like Tucker, he's loon.
He should be locked in a room with Michelle Malkin.

Posted by: Braenyard at April 25, 2024 04:14 PM (lCWOD)

12 Wow, too bad about Chatsworth Osborne, Jr.

Posted by: Bulgaroctonus at April 25, 2024 04:14 PM (9yWhg)

13 It's wrong to drop nuclear weapons on people, and if you find yourself arguing that it's a good thing to drop nuclear weapons on people, then you are evil.

========

What about incendiary bombs? Is that evil?

War is evil. War should be avoided as much as possible.

However, as we've seen, fighting war nicely is really not fighting it at all. It just extends the fight, accomplishes nothing, and creates an incentive structure to continue wars forever.

Yes, nuclear weapons should be in the arsenal.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, fighting kaiju with Ishiro Honda at April 25, 2024 04:15 PM (GBKbO)

14 Whoever called Tucker in the last thread, collect your winnings…

Posted by: tubal at April 25, 2024 04:15 PM (PCK5/)

15 He should be locked in a room with Michelle Malkin.

Posted by: Braenyard

I can think of worse people to be locked in a room with.

Posted by: Bulgaroctonus at April 25, 2024 04:15 PM (9yWhg)

16 It wasn't Chesterton who said that, though it's often attributed to him. It was Malcolm Muggeridge.

Posted by: Eeyore at April 25, 2024 04:15 PM (1bNHn)

17 >>>Ha! I like Tucker, he's loon.

I wouldn't mind him so much because we do need dissidents, "wrongthinkers," and even loons, but I don't like that this particular loon continues to have such a hold on conservative thought.

Posted by: ace at April 25, 2024 04:15 PM (KRtlO)

18 I remember seeing pictures of him laughing it up with Trump and his family. Someone has something on him. He'll have to transition slowly so he's not so obvious, but it won't surprise me to see him speaking at the dem convention.

Posted by: Megthered at April 25, 2024 04:16 PM (4acn+)

19 Tucker Carlson?

Yeah, I'd eat him...

Posted by: The Cannibal That Ate Joe's Uncle at April 25, 2024 04:16 PM (sWgE+)

20 >>>Anyone want to take bets on the subject of Ace's next post?
Posted by: Turn 2 at April 25, 2024 03:54 PM (GPSZ3)

Tucker
Posted by: It's me donna at April 25, 2024 03:55 PM (Akjoo)

=====

You've just won a platinum membership. Please click the link and enter your credit card number so we can get you your winnings.

Posted by: Turn 2 at April 25, 2024 04:16 PM (GPSZ3)

21 He is wrong.
Saved thousands of lives American and Japanese

Posted by: Skip at April 25, 2024 04:16 PM (mb6GH)

22 Ah, and now that I've read the rest, it seems he's pretty out there.

HOWEVER, given how much our government has been shown to lie, I understand people start believing EVERY conspiracy now.

And, as you're pointing out, he's definitely starting (or is way down) onto the JEWWWWWWWWWS CONTROL EVERYTHING train.

Posted by: Formerly Virginian at April 25, 2024 04:16 PM (N1tpc)

23 I be going to grandulate from Boring Flight Shcrool in Seaanttle next weak. I hopes Io cans be yoor pilot on my furst oversees flight from New Yolk to Jermany. I be grandulationing in the tops 10% of my Klass. I am the furst DEI Grandulate froms this schrool thanx tp Presdent Byedum's newt policiess

Posted by: Qieusha Nashala at April 25, 2024 04:16 PM (BKOUD)

24 I suppose it is possible that Mossad collaborated with CIA on Epstein. You know what would set this to rest? De-classifying that the CIA, FBI and whatever other bloated agency created to hide this kind of crap has on this topic.

Posted by: Chuck Martel at April 25, 2024 04:17 PM (4hHmM)

25 I heard that Tucker clip about how nuking Japan was “evil”… heard it a few days ago (some radio talk guy played the clip). I think it’s clear that Carlson is losing his way…. Everyone needs some kind of tether to a community… to keep us grounded and to make sure we don’t start drinking our own bath water…. Now on the X platform he has no checks; Fox constrained him too much. He can’t find the sweet spot. Too bad…. Fox firing him did neutralize him, as they desired. Or rather he’s neutralizing himself….. for me his softball interview of Putin kinda started the downward spiral…. Then emphasizing civilian casualties in Gaza post 10/7 was the next warning he was losing perspective. It’s too bad

I shouldn’t have to even say this…. But his evil claim is just stupid. Pretty much any moral calculus would justify the dropping of the bomb. Japan was the aggressor country AND it demonstrably saved many human lives….

Posted by: LinusVanPelt at April 25, 2024 04:17 PM (xT8gx)

26 17 >>>Ha! I like Tucker, he's loon.

I wouldn't mind him so much because we do need dissidents, "wrongthinkers," and even loons, but I don't like that this particular loon continues to have such a hold on conservative thought.
Posted by: ace at April 25, 2024 04:15 PM (KRtlO)

These days we can’t afford to be too picky, maybe.

Posted by: tubal at April 25, 2024 04:17 PM (PCK5/)

27 It's wrong to eat people too. If they are capturing and eating us, can we drop a bomb on them then?

Posted by: fd at April 25, 2024 04:17 PM (vFG9F)

28 He sounds like a zoomer that just watched "Oppenheimer."

Posted by: brak at April 25, 2024 04:17 PM (AR07F)

29 17 I wouldn't mind him so much because we do need dissidents, "wrongthinkers," and even loons, but I don't like that this particular loon continues to have such a hold on conservative thought.
Posted by: ace at April 25, 2024 04:15 PM (KRtlO)

========

Since my exposure to the right essentially amounts to this place, Insty, and the Babylon Bee, it seems to me like Tucker has little influence on the American right.

But I'm in a bubble. I have no idea.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, fighting kaiju with Ishiro Honda at April 25, 2024 04:17 PM (GBKbO)

30 14 Whoever called Tucker in the last thread, collect your winnings…
Posted by: tubal at April 25, 2024 04:15 PM (PCK5/)

What do I win ?

Posted by: It's me donna at April 25, 2024 04:17 PM (Akjoo)

31 >>>HOWEVER, given how much our government has been shown to lie, I understand people start believing EVERY conspiracy now.

I get that, but in the worlds of Taylor Swift, "You Need to Calm Down."

by "you" I mean "all of us."

Posted by: ace at April 25, 2024 04:17 PM (KRtlO)

32 Carlson falls into the trap all libertarians fall into. The will forever denounce the right for the smallest policy difference, but will bend heaven and earth to seal a gulf with the left because of a slight policy agreement.

Posted by: Cat Ass Trophy at April 25, 2024 04:17 PM (PHukT)

33 Hey Tucker

Unit 731 is looking for volunteers.

Posted by: Anna Puma at April 25, 2024 04:17 PM (Jj0+x)

34 >>>28 He sounds like a zoomer that just watched "Oppenheimer."

that's probably true!

Posted by: ace at April 25, 2024 04:18 PM (KRtlO)

35 Fine. Firebombing it is. Besides, to get and burned and die takes longer to kill than nuclear heatwave. (rubs hands together)

Posted by: Disgusted at April 25, 2024 04:18 PM (Z8Yh2)

36 Tucker Carlson?

Yeah, I'd eat him...
Posted by: The Cannibal That Ate Joe's Uncle

That Tuck, he's a fryer.

Posted by: Bulgaroctonus at April 25, 2024 04:18 PM (9yWhg)

37

The more I learn about the bomb the more I'm cnvinced they had to use it...the ovt dedicated a whole lot of resources to it. They would look awfully stupid had they done that and not used it.

It was more a necessity from that view, as well as a lesson to the assholes out there, and a big ol' dick swing than needed to stop Japan, which had it's ass totally kicked and was going to get beat up further with conventional weapons. Germany self-destructed on it's own, and had the scientists, but not the apparatus.

So it's not cut and dry. I used to think it was certainly needed, because of whatever history books told me...

Von Braun created Apollo not long after.

Posted by: Dr.Rev. Senator Your Highness E Buzz Miller, Esq PhD MA MS at April 25, 2024 04:18 PM (et1vG)

38 6 >>>1 He's wrong

sometimes it's not even that he's wrong. I can see arguments for this POV.

It's his smug dogmatic pronouncements. He shares this in common with the leftwingers he's cozying up to.

Posted by: ace
----------------------

He's lost his place. He's bringing forward voices that haven't been heard that should be heard. They should be heard because they are thoughtful people not because they are correct.
He's lost his place, he's not on solid ground anymore.

Posted by: Braenyard at April 25, 2024 04:18 PM (lCWOD)

39 >>>Ha! I like Tucker, he's loon.
He should be locked in a room with Michelle Malkin.

Posted by: Braenyard at April 25, 2024 04:14 PM (lCWOD)

=====

What am I? Chopped liver?

Posted by: Candice Owens at April 25, 2024 04:18 PM (GPSZ3)

40 13 It's wrong to drop nuclear weapons on people, and if you find yourself arguing that it's a good thing to drop nuclear weapons on people, then you are evil.

========

What about incendiary bombs? Is that evil?

War is evil. War should be avoided as much as possible.

However, as we've seen, fighting war nicely is really not fighting it at all. It just extends the fight, accomplishes nothing, and creates an incentive structure to continue wars forever.

Yes, nuclear weapons should be in the arsenal.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, fighting kaiju with Ishiro Honda at April 25, 2024 04:15 PM (GBKbO)
_______
The intellectually serious arguments against the bombing of H & N also exclude bombing civilians elsewhere, eg, Tokyo and Hamburg.

It's not insane. Lewis and Tolkien thought so.

Posted by: Eeyore at April 25, 2024 04:18 PM (1bNHn)

41 30 14 Whoever called Tucker in the last thread, collect your winnings…
Posted by: tubal at April 25, 2024 04:15 PM (PCK5/)

What do I win ?
Posted by: It's me donna at April 25, 2024 04:17 PM (Akjoo)

Ask the Boss, he’s here… maybe a months worth of Faux Pas Indulgences??

Posted by: tubal at April 25, 2024 04:18 PM (PCK5/)

42 I've never thought of TC as a conservative thought leader. He's in the news business for god's sake. That just entertainment for dull people.

Posted by: pawn at April 25, 2024 04:18 PM (QB+5g)

43 Ok, that's a little more direct than I remembered, I didn't think he was calling people "defending" the Japan nooks as "prima facie evil."

Assuming that quote is accurate. I still think what he was decrying are the current war hawks who are callously marching us toward nukular war.

But yeah, no. If you can't find room to accept that people have a moral argument to be made for dropping the bombs in '45, then you're kind of a dick.

Posted by: BurtTC at April 25, 2024 04:19 PM (dGCAG)

44 Tucker lost me forever when he went to bat for Hunter Biden.

Posted by: garrett at April 25, 2024 04:19 PM (Lc5iI)

45 Dropping nukes on Japan was the only moral choice.

It is the CinC's job to win a war with as few American losses as possible. Dropping nukes accomplished that.

If Japan didn't want to be nuked they shouldn't have started the war.

Posted by: 18-1 at April 25, 2024 04:19 PM (ibTVg)

46
I suspect 'deep state/state' got ahold of him post Putin interview and showed him some 'TOP SECRET' inside UFO stuff and he lost it.

I'll still watch him but his believable index has cratered faster then our oh-so Christian House Speakers.

Posted by: Divide by Zero at April 25, 2024 04:19 PM (RKVpM)

47 if you find yourself arguing that it's a good thing to drop nuclear weapons on people, then you are evil.

Worse than that, you're just plain inefficient.

Posted by: Anthony Fauci at April 25, 2024 04:19 PM (Hgnyx)

48 Did Tucker have parents/relatives who served in WWII?

Posted by: Bulgaroctonus at April 25, 2024 04:19 PM (9yWhg)

49 It wasn't Chesterton who said that, though it's often attributed to him. It was Malcolm Muggeridge.
Posted by: Eeyore

I believe it.

Posted by: mikeski at April 25, 2024 04:20 PM (DgGvY)

50 Dafuq?

Seriously, dafuq?

Seems like it's every week someone "on our side" seems to go batshit insane...

Posted by: Brother Tim sez Nick Saban for President! at April 25, 2024 04:20 PM (OUMaO)

51 this really sucks. A year ago, I would have said Tucker was just about the smartest conservative out there....
He's Ann Coulter'd himself. Why? Looking at pics he shouldn't look at online? Paid off? threats against his family?
sigh...thanks for posting this Ace

Posted by: ziggggeeee at April 25, 2024 04:20 PM (K5Rdg)

52 1 million not-dead Allied soldiers and 10 million not-dead Japanese civilians strongly disagree with Tu-Ca.

Posted by: GM27, SEP Field Technician at April 25, 2024 04:13 PM (pgwxJ)

For about a year before Hiroshima the US had been mass firebombing every Japanese city of any size with the exceptions of a few reserved for A Bombs. The devastation was far larger than the A-bombs did and was repeated. If you care about civilian deaths, you have to include the fire bombing. A Bombs did little new aside from being all in one package.

Posted by: Oldcat at April 25, 2024 04:20 PM (eoQWY)

53 Sure Tucker The F**ker......... We should have invaded Japan and lost over a half million US Serviceman. We warned Japan and they said Blow Me. So Harry S. said fine ..... I will blow you a new strategic weapon we developed........

Say Hi to the "Enola Gay"............ Suckers ....

Posted by: Ferd Berfall at April 25, 2024 04:20 PM (Qfk4E)

54 Oh and UFOs? They are clearly experimental drone/aircraft tech.

I assume by the US and the US's rivals.

Remember in the 70s/80s where people in the midwest reported seeing flying wing UFOs that were quite, fast, and didn't show up on radar? Well those UFOs were simply stealth tech.

And back then the government intentionally amped up the UFO notion to keep our rivals from looking too closely into the issue...and it worked.

Posted by: 18-1 at April 25, 2024 04:21 PM (ibTVg)

55 What would Uncle Brosey say?

Posted by: fd at April 25, 2024 04:21 PM (vFG9F)

56 Was dropping nukes on Japan evil ?

A few hundred-thousand residents of Nanking were unavailable for comment.

Posted by: Next2Nothing at April 25, 2024 04:22 PM (tA1/w)

57 And onto the title foolish point:

Japan's industry was spread throughout the population.

Hiroshima contained significant war industry and military importance.

We didn't "drop a bomb on civilians". We bombed a city that was militarily important.

Hiroshima and Nagasaki were legitimate targets. It's insane to claim that this was evil.

I think this argument may be a roundabout way to say that Israel is evil because "civilians" get hit by attacks.

It also encourages the war crimes that Hamas continues to commit by hiding among said "civilians."

Posted by: Formerly Virginian at April 25, 2024 04:22 PM (N1tpc)

58 The intellectually serious arguments against the bombing of H & N also exclude bombing civilians elsewhere, eg, Tokyo and Hamburg.

It's not insane. Lewis and Tolkien thought so.
Posted by: Eeyore at April 25, 2024 04:18 PM (1bNHn)

And again, I think the relevant part of the quote up there is: "...and if you find yourself arguing that it's a good thing to drop nuclear weapons on people, then you are evil."

He's really talking about the here and now. He should walk back the comment, if he's not also condemning those who believed it was better to save American lives in '45.

I suspect he won't, but he should.

Posted by: BurtTC at April 25, 2024 04:22 PM (dGCAG)

59 I don't think there's any question that Gislane's dad Robert Maxwell was an agent not just of Mossad, but of MI-6 as well. He introduced Epstein to his daughter and basically handed off the family business that was blackmail for intelligence agencies. There's no way you run a multi-decade sex trafficking operation that was essentially an open secret without being protected from on high, or having the dirt.

Posted by: the dandy at April 25, 2024 04:22 PM (w83EC)

60 The Gray Aliens probed Tucker, now he receives CNN just fine.

Posted by: Anna Puma at April 25, 2024 04:22 PM (Jj0+x)

61 However, as we've seen, fighting war nicely is really not fighting it at all. It just extends the fight, accomplishes nothing, and creates an incentive structure to continue wars forever.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison

Examples: every war we've fought in my lifetime.

(Gen X)

Posted by: mikeski at April 25, 2024 04:23 PM (DgGvY)

62 >>>If Japan didn't want to be nuked they shouldn't have started the war.
Posted by: 18-1 at April 25, 2024 04:19 PM (ibTVg)

======

The ultimate FAFO.

Posted by: Turn 2 at April 25, 2024 04:23 PM (GPSZ3)

63 Oh and speaking of the morality of nukes...I'm amused the left claims it was immoral to use them but never seems to care they were not 100% sure they weren't going to set the atmosphere on fire and kill all life on earth.

Oopsie!

Posted by: 18-1 at April 25, 2024 04:23 PM (ibTVg)

64 Both Hiroshima and Nagasaki had production facilities and troop and transport centers for the war. They weren't just "civilian" targets. In a total war like WWII calling yourself a civilian is like calling yourself a sandbag

Posted by: Smell the Glove at April 25, 2024 04:23 PM (aX7Uj)

65 Tucker becomes less relevant by the day.

Sad.

Posted by: Trump at April 25, 2024 04:23 PM (AD14M)

66 What is Carlson’s views on Trump? Biden? Illegals? Our economy?

Posted by: tubal at April 25, 2024 04:23 PM (PCK5/)

67 If Japan didn't want to be nuked they shouldn't have started the war.
Posted by: 18-1

This. When I was in college, I briefly kind-sorta dated a girl who was an Asian Studies major. I went with her to one of her classes once, and the TA was playing a song done by some Japanese dude on the atomic bombings, and how the people who did were "barbarians" and such. And the whole time I was thinking, "But who started the bloody war?"

Posted by: Bulgaroctonus at April 25, 2024 04:23 PM (9yWhg)

68 Building houses out of wood and paper is a crime against humanity.

Posted by: andycanuck (vtyCZ) at April 25, 2024 04:23 PM (vtyCZ)

69 I haven't thrown Tucker in the rubbish bin yet. But I think he's wrong about the bomb and his "only my attitude is the correct attitude" smugness does him no favors.

I'm disappointed because there was quite a long time wherein I agreed with just about everything he said.

Posted by: Seems Legit at April 25, 2024 04:23 PM (JeYYB)

70 Meh. He's wrong about the nukes in Japan. So was Paul Johnson, and I still like him, so I reserve judgment.

But he's definitely right about the US government being completely satanic, and the GOP's key role in it. That's the core issue until both are dispensed with once and for all. One then the other. All else is distantly secondary in importance, decades old foreign policy decisions and UFOs.

Don't know about antisemitism, haven't heard that from him yet, but I'll look into it sometime if I have nothing better to do.

Posted by: Yudhishthira's Dice at April 25, 2024 04:23 PM (0FoWg)

71 ":if you find yourself arguing that it's a good thing to drop nuclear weapons on people, then you are evil."

How about "It was the least worst thing?"

Posted by: fd at April 25, 2024 04:23 PM (vFG9F)

72 Wasn't it the Glenn Beck shtick to keep up with the "just asking question"? Before the border teddy bear craziness. I think South Park even made fun of it in the cartman dances with smurfs episode.

Posted by: banana Dream at April 25, 2024 04:23 PM (Y6IkP)

73 I gotta admit, I find myself falling into the trap now of believing conspiracy theories that, oh, 10 years ago or so I would've laughed about.

For instance, a couple of weeks ago while watching the eclipse, I noticed there were many contrails in the sky. So I immediately thought, Hmm...might be something to that. Maybe they are poisoning us/cloud seeding.

Posted by: Biergood at April 25, 2024 04:24 PM (PwgSL)

74 Tucker is suffering from what a lot of modern people suffer from - putting contemporary morals and ideas and knowledge onto past actions and using that contemporary view to judge.

It's stupid. But so many people do it. Usually b/c they are lazy thinkers.

Posted by: Nova Local at April 25, 2024 04:24 PM (exHjb)

75 I think "Unidentified Aerial Phenomenon" was what Eric Swalwell did in that TV interview.

Posted by: I am the Shadout Mapes, the Housekeeper at April 25, 2024 04:24 PM (PiwSw)

76 conservative thought.
Posted by: ace

There's a novel thought, would be nice were there some conservative thought.

Posted by: N at April 25, 2024 04:24 PM (RjBju)

77 When is Tucker gonna condemn William T. ("War Is Hell") Sherman?

Posted by: Bulgaroctonus at April 25, 2024 04:24 PM (9yWhg)

78 One night LeMay's B-29s burned out over four square miles of Tokyo and killed more than died at Hiroshima.

Posted by: Anna Puma at April 25, 2024 04:24 PM (Jj0+x)

79 So, I'm a sandbag!

Posted by: andycanuck (vtyCZ) at April 25, 2024 04:24 PM (vtyCZ)

80 Having visited both bomb sites, shed tears, it's hard to argue that it wasn't a great evil. I've also visited the Arizona memorial in Pearl Harbor, shed tears.
Dresden firebombing site (the whole city) same thing. War in the Pacific theater was insanely brutal. To have been spared an invasion of Japan, any soldier would have rejoiced.
War itself is a great evil, rarely a necessary one. Mankind has many dark hearts willing to engage in it, even now.

Posted by: gourmand du jour at April 25, 2024 04:25 PM (MeG8a)

81 People who have been Americans for hundreds of years understand that it's evil to argue for dropping the atomic bomb on Japan. We prefer carpet bombing cities, especially roasting civilians in firebombings.

Posted by: C. Tarlson at April 25, 2024 04:25 PM (9e2in)

82 It actually was pretty evil; that’s war.

Posted by: Allen at April 25, 2024 04:25 PM (lFLgt)

83 If you could stop WW3 by dropping a nuke on Kiev, would it be evil?

Posted by: Cat Ass Trophy at April 25, 2024 04:25 PM (PHukT)

84
I can think of worse people to be locked in a room with.
Posted by: Bulgaroctonus
---------------------------------

I've got a sweet spot for Michelle. She is a strong advocate; she believes incarcerating the Japanese was correct, that the bomb was correct and she is smart enough to take Tucker to the woodshed.

Posted by: Braenyard at April 25, 2024 04:25 PM (lCWOD)

85 Is he a loon or is he chasing clicks?

What will he say next? Visit tucker dot com to find out!

Posted by: Duke Lowell at April 25, 2024 04:25 PM (2UnvF)

86 Sure, Israel is not beyond criticism.

It's just when certain anti-Israel people go all "death to Jews!", I get a little uncomfortable.

Posted by: Captain Obvious, Laird o' the Sea at April 25, 2024 04:25 PM (Be/+i)

87 NOT dropping those nukes would have been stupid, suicidal, and evil; it would have substantially increased the number of both US and Japanese dead, would have extended the war for YEARS, and would have drained even more treasure from our treasury. The firebombing of Tokyo was far worse in terms of damage and dead; I guess that makes us evil too, nevermind what the Japanese did in places like Nanking and Shanghai.

Posted by: jim (in Kalifornia) at April 25, 2024 04:25 PM (ynpvh)

88 What is Carlson’s views on Trump? Biden? Illegals? Our economy?
Posted by: tubal at April 25, 2024 04:23 PM (PCK5/)

For, against, against, for.

Posted by: BurtTC at April 25, 2024 04:25 PM (dGCAG)

89 67 If Japan didn't want to be nuked they shouldn't have started the war.
Posted by: 18-1

This. When I was in college, I briefly kind-sorta dated a girl who was an Asian Studies major. I went with her to one of her classes once, and the TA was playing a song done by some Japanese dude on the atomic bombings, and how the people who did were "barbarians" and such. And the whole time I was thinking, "But who started the bloody war?"
Posted by: Bulgaroctonus at April 25, 2024 04:23 PM (9yWhg)

======

Japan had to do it! They needed more oil to expand its already going war into China! Which it started. Which was the center of many of the warcrimes tried at the Tokyo Trials.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, fighting kaiju with Ishiro Honda at April 25, 2024 04:25 PM (GBKbO)

90 If you could stop WW3 by dropping a nuke on Isfahan, would it be evil?

Posted by: Cat Ass Trophy at April 25, 2024 04:25 PM (PHukT)

91 He lost me after the Russia fiasco, especially after BS trip to the Russian supermarket. The whole trip was a joke.

Posted by: RobertM at April 25, 2024 04:25 PM (rqWIE)

92 However, as we've seen, fighting war nicely is really not fighting it at all. It just extends the fight, accomplishes nothing, and creates an incentive structure to continue wars forever.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison

You can make a case that most American CinCs since FDR should have been arrested for and charged for dereliction of duty in getting American soldiers intentionally killed to minimize the loss of enemy civilians.

Could you imagine in WWII a fortified German city where the bombers and artillery was NOT called out to soften them up/force them to surrender before sending the grunts in because there were also German civilians in the city? And yet this has been the norm since WWII.

Posted by: 18-1 at April 25, 2024 04:25 PM (ibTVg)

93 War is very much about degrading the opposition's will to fight. Sending countless men into a meat grinder in a Zerg rush often doesn't work because there's always a chance the other side will put up a better defense and win.

Demonstrating just how much destruction you can rain down from on high has a wonderful ability to focus one's mind on what's really important in this world.

How many Japanese, upon witnessing that awful weapon, threw down their weapons and just wept because they *KNEW* they could not fight that?

Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at April 25, 2024 04:25 PM (7fElN)

94 Fire bombing of Coventry.

Posted by: Anna Puma at April 25, 2024 04:25 PM (Jj0+x)

95 Tucker … da fuq 😳

Posted by: browndog is petty that way at April 25, 2024 04:26 PM (dYc5F)

96 Well at least Tucker got rid of that bow tie. Some people just can rock 'em.

Posted by: George Will at April 25, 2024 04:26 PM (PiwSw)

97 =====

What am I? Chopped liver?
Posted by: Candice Owens
------------------------

Honey, you don't hold a candle to Michelle.

Posted by: Braenyard at April 25, 2024 04:26 PM (lCWOD)

98 85 Is he a loon or is he chasing clicks?

What will he say next? Visit tucker dot com to find out!

Posted by: Duke Lowell at April 25, 2024 04:25 PM (2UnvF)

Is he a loon? Is he from Canada? I hear they have Loonies up there for currency.

Posted by: jim (in Kalifornia) at April 25, 2024 04:26 PM (ynpvh)

99 Tucker will be handing out Teddy Bears on the Border in under 4 months.

Posted by: garrett at April 25, 2024 04:26 PM (Lc5iI)

100 I've got a sweet spot for Michelle. She is a strong advocate; she believes incarcerating the Japanese was correct, that the bomb was correct and she is smart enough to take Tucker to the woodshed.
Posted by: Braenyard

I saw her interviewed once. Besides being smart, she was clearly vamping for the camera when not speaking. Mmmmmm...

Posted by: Bulgaroctonus at April 25, 2024 04:26 PM (9yWhg)

101 The use of longbows at Agincourt was evil. If you think about it. Just asking questions.

Posted by: Tucker Carlson at April 25, 2024 04:27 PM (rJQdF)

102 I would find this more compelling if he didn't make this announcement in the same rant in which he decries the cover-up of "UAPs" -- Unidentified Aerial Pheonomenon, which is the new term for "UFOs" so you can avoid saying "UFOs."

I'm more worried about UTIs.

Posted by: jim (in Kalifornia) at April 25, 2024 04:27 PM (ynpvh)

103
Both Hiroshima and Nagasaki had production facilities and troop and transport centers for the war. They weren't just "civilian" targets. In a total war like WWII calling yourself a civilian is like calling yourself a sandbag

Posted by: Smell the Glove at April 25, 2024 04:23 PM

Pamphlets were dropped on major Japanese cities involved in the war effort to advise them to get out of Dodge. I suspect some did. They're known as survivors.

Shame they started this shit, but someone had to end it. With two bombs.

Posted by: Divide by Zero at April 25, 2024 04:27 PM (RKVpM)

104 A lot of people forget that it is fine to agree with people where you agree with them, and disagree where you don't.

Tucker has always seemed a bit of a fop to me, but I welcome his support where he provides it and oppose him where he does not.

It is different for politicians whom we elect to promote certain policies and then we find out they never had any intention of promoting those policies. I have zero tolerance there.

Posted by: Thatch at April 25, 2024 04:27 PM (LLNW4)

105 101 The use of longbows at Agincourt was evil. If you think about it. Just asking questions.

Posted by: Tucker Carlson at April 25, 2024 04:27 PM (rJQdF)

No, the Pope said the use of CrossBows was evil if used on other Christians; pagans and heathens were Okay to use them on.

Posted by: jim (in Kalifornia) at April 25, 2024 04:27 PM (ynpvh)

106 He is a celebrity, he’s gonna take shit is my thought. We are celebrity obsessed.

Posted by: tubal at April 25, 2024 04:28 PM (PCK5/)

107 Ok. I'm done defending Tucker.

I'm assuming he's clickbaiting, maybe he's always been clickbaiting.

Fuck him with a rusty katana.

Posted by: Mark Andrew Edwards, Anti-Marxist, buy ammo at April 25, 2024 04:28 PM (xcxpd)

108 My dad was drafted in October, 1945, when he turned 18. My mom had one brother island hopping with the Marines and another on a ship headed west across the Pacific. What are the odds they'd have survived an invasion of Japan?

Posted by: Nobel winner Paul Krugman at April 25, 2024 04:28 PM (VGOMa)

109
1 million not-dead Allied soldiers and 10 million not-dead Japanese civilians strongly disagree with Tu-Ca.

Posted by: GM27, SEP Field Technician at April 25, 2024 04:13 PM (pgwxJ)

Not to mention the 20+ million Chinese and several million other Asian people that the Japs slaughtered in an orgy of brutality that would make a Ukranian death camp guard working for the SS puke in disgust.

Bloody vengeance is a perfectly justifiable reason to go to war.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at April 25, 2024 04:28 PM (n+4am)

110 A serious west would have already ended conflict in the middle east by letting the Israelis move the Palis somewhere else in the Muslim world.

This happened in mass after WWII and like then it would have resolved most of the underlying issues.

Posted by: 18-1 at April 25, 2024 04:28 PM (ibTVg)

111 ":if you find yourself arguing that it's a good thing to drop nuclear weapons on people, then you are evil."
--------

How about "It was the least worst thing?"
Posted by: fd at April 25, 2024 04:23 PM (vFG9F)

There's a Christian concept that any sin is the turning away from God, and is therefore, evil.

Obviously there are levels of evil.

Posted by: BurtTC at April 25, 2024 04:28 PM (dGCAG)

112 Tucker is self sabotaging his career and his image.
Next thing you know he'll say Sandy Hook was a hoax.

Posted by: redridinghood at April 25, 2024 04:28 PM (NpAcC)

113 Tucker turned into the slightly less neurotic version of Alex Jones so quickly that I missed it.

Posted by: Defenestratus at April 25, 2024 04:28 PM (UJV30)

114 I've got a sweet spot for Michelle. She is a strong advocate; she believes incarcerating the Japanese was correct, that the bomb was correct and she is smart enough to take Tucker to the woodshed.
Posted by: Bra

She was better when she made trampoline vids and wandered around in hot pants and high heels

Posted by: N at April 25, 2024 04:28 PM (RjBju)

115 If the text is accurate, his argument seems to be about keeping all citizens worldwide pinned by an international coalition of nuclear terror, forever.

Posted by: t-bird at April 25, 2024 04:28 PM (5IEcl)

116 109 Not to mention the 20+ million Chinese and several million other Asian people that the Japs slaughtered in an orgy of brutality that would make a Ukranian death camp guard working for the SS puke in disgust.

Bloody vengeance is a perfectly justifiable reason to go to war.
Posted by: IllTemperedCur at April 25, 2024 04:28 PM (n+4am)

=======

Would China have gone communist without the Japanese taking of Manchukuo?

I dunno. Just asking questions.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, fighting kaiju with Ishiro Honda at April 25, 2024 04:28 PM (GBKbO)

117 The more I learn about the bomb the more I'm cnvinced they had to use it...the ovt dedicated a whole lot of resources to it. They would look awfully stupid had they done that and not used it.

Posted by: Dr.Rev. Senator Your Highness E Buzz Miller, Esq PhD MA MS at April 25, 2024 04:18 PM (et1vG)

The resources for the bomb were trivial, all things considered.

The real problem was that we were at an impasse. Japan's economy was in ruins, and the population was going to start starving since the Navy was cutting off nearly all shipping. The Japanese Army leadership was willing to die virtually to a man anyway, and the population would too if they acted anything like Japanese civilians on other islands we had taken. Hirohito was constrained by tradition to let the government work without his direct involvement.

The A-Bombs broke the stalemate, convincing Hirohito to give orders and the Military to accept them rather than ignore them. There have been claims that something else might have done the same thing but the actual history says different. They could have opened channels up while Iwo and Okinawa were being fought over, the situation in the war was just as hopeless.

Posted by: Oldcat at April 25, 2024 04:29 PM (eoQWY)

118 Plus, dropping the nukes sent an unmistakable message to our ally Joey Stalin.

Which he heeded, briefly, til he stole our stuff and made his own bomb.

Posted by: Bulgaroctonus at April 25, 2024 04:29 PM (9yWhg)

119 42 I've never thought of TC as a conservative thought leader

Let’s bin the term “thought leader”. Forever.

If you need one, everyone has stopped thinking.

Posted by: Catch Thirty-Thr33 at April 25, 2024 04:29 PM (mggQ3)

120 111 ":if you find yourself arguing that it's a good thing to drop nuclear weapons on people, then you are evil."
--------

How about "It was the least worst thing?"
Posted by: fd at April 25, 2024 04:23 PM (vFG9F)

There's a Christian concept that any sin is the turning away from God, and is therefore, evil.

Obviously there are levels of evil.
Posted by: BurtTC at April 25, 2024 04:28 PM (dGCAG)

The Catholic faith even defines them

...

Posted by: Nova Local at April 25, 2024 04:29 PM (exHjb)

121 These opponents of the bomb discount all the American lives that had already been lost. We were not ready to lose any more of our people. We put our foot down.

Posted by: Braenyard - today, people don't understand the putting of one's foot DOWN at April 25, 2024 04:29 PM (lCWOD)

122 Ace, you magnificent bastard. You are right regarding Tucker.

Posted by: goatexchange at April 25, 2024 04:29 PM (kfr/R)

123 Seems like it's every week someone "on our side" seems to go batshit insane...
Posted by: Brother Tim

When governments around the world engage in open conspiracies, it's human behavior to start grabbing on to all of them.

Man, if any of you are familiar with what happened to James Delingpole, this Tucker shit is just the trailer for his little 'journey.'

Posted by: weft cut-loop at April 25, 2024 04:29 PM (IG4Id)

124 Tucker turned into the slightly less neurotic version of Alex Jones so quickly that I missed it.

I remember when the left loved Jones, casting him in Through a Scanner Darkly as basically himself.

That's when he was really only known for opposing the WoT and the left called him a "reasonable conservative"

Posted by: 18-1 at April 25, 2024 04:29 PM (ibTVg)

125 Truth be known many of us have beliefs and thoughts that are outliers --at best.
Tucker would do well to have someone with some authority or influence to prevent him from getting too far astray.
Tucker could not be more wrong about Japan and the bomb. It was a horrible mess to drop the bombs but we saved lives on Both sides doing so,
End of discussion.
Still, will be listening to Tucker because when Tucker is good he is VERY good.

Posted by: Voter theater. at April 25, 2024 04:29 PM (FCPbW)

126 118 Plus, dropping the nukes sent an unmistakable message to our ally Joey Stalin.

Which he heeded, briefly, til he stole our stuff and made his own bomb.
Posted by: Bulgaroctonus at April 25, 2024 04:29 PM (9yWhg)

=======

"Scientists only adherence is to science. Also, Stalin needs some nukes, guys. Please share?"
-Oppy

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, fighting kaiju with Ishiro Honda at April 25, 2024 04:29 PM (GBKbO)

127 Which he heeded, briefly, til he stole our stuff and made his own bomb.
Posted by: Bulgaroctonus at April 25, 2024 04:29 PM (9yWhg)

This is about me, isn’t it?

Posted by: Klaus Fuchs at April 25, 2024 04:30 PM (mggQ3)

128 108 My dad was drafted in October, 1945, when he turned 18. My mom had one brother island hopping with the Marines and another on a ship headed west across the Pacific. What are the odds they'd have survived an invasion of Japan?

Posted by: Nobel winner Paul Krugman at April 25, 2024 04:28 PM (VGOMa)

My Dad was on a ship from the Philippines (where he had been a combat veteran in '45) to Japan when the bombs were dropped. He thought he'd die in Japan, but when he got there, the war was over.

Posted by: jim (in Kalifornia) at April 25, 2024 04:30 PM (ynpvh)

129 How brave and noble to be willing for other people to die so you won't have to get your hands dirty.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, I've Been Through the Desert On a Horse With No Shame at April 25, 2024 04:30 PM (FVME7)

130 What is inherently evil about a nuclear weapon?

Why more so than a MOAB, a JDAM, a pistol, an arrow propelled by a bow (long, cross, horn etc.) or a rock clenched in my fist?

Just degrees of lethality.

Posted by: Pete Bog at April 25, 2024 04:30 PM (AexFl)

131 TC has done gone off the rails.

Posted by: Catch Thirty-Thr33 at April 25, 2024 04:30 PM (mggQ3)

132 130 What is inherently evil about a nuclear weapon?

Why more so than a MOAB, a JDAM, a pistol, an arrow propelled by a bow (long, cross, horn etc.) or a rock clenched in my fist?

Just degrees of lethality.

Posted by: Pete Bog at April 25, 2024 04:30 PM (AexFl)

======

Jane Fonda should be able to answer this.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, fighting kaiju with Ishiro Honda at April 25, 2024 04:30 PM (GBKbO)

133 A serious west would have already ended conflict in the middle east by letting the Israelis move the Palis somewhere else in the Muslim world.

This happened in mass after WWII and like then it would have resolved most of the underlying issues.

Posted by: 18-1 at April 25, 2024 04:28 PM (ibTVg)

That is to assume the west (i.e. the U.S. of A.) wants an end to the conflict in the middle east.

Seems pretty self-evident it doesn't.

Posted by: BurtTC at April 25, 2024 04:30 PM (dGCAG)

134 126 118 Plus, dropping the nukes sent an unmistakable message to our ally Joey Stalin.

Which he heeded, briefly, til he stole our stuff and made his own bomb.
Posted by: Bulgaroctonus at April 25, 2024 04:29 PM (9yWhg)

=======

"Scientists only adherence is to science. Also, Stalin needs some nukes, guys. Please share?"
-Oppy

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, fighting kaiju with Ishiro Honda at April 25, 2024 04:29 PM (GBKbO)

Didn't he say something about becoming Kali(fornia), the goddess of death and destruction?

Posted by: jim (in Kalifornia) at April 25, 2024 04:31 PM (ynpvh)

135 Ace, love the post.

Posted by: Harun at April 25, 2024 04:31 PM (c2WeP)

136 I've become more of an America First conservative. (Eff you, McConnell).

I don't want our money spent or our military dying in Ukraine, Taiwan, Israel, or anywhere else. There are exceptions. We gave 4 star hotel rooms to illegals but our vets have to fight for benefits.

It appears when our Government or the CIA tries to manipulate other countries' politics it backfires or ends up costing us trillions or an obligation to take in a bunch of third-world animals.

I'm over it.

Would I choose to bomb Japan as Truman did? Hell yes. Again, America First.

Posted by: Seems Legit at April 25, 2024 04:31 PM (JeYYB)

137 All this but no one is ever dragged into the Hague and made to appoligize in weeping confessions for canceling The Adventures of Brisco County, Jr.

Posted by: banana Dream at April 25, 2024 04:31 PM (Y6IkP)

138 Tucker is self sabotaging his career and his image.
Next thing you know he'll say Sandy Hook was a hoax.
Posted by: redridinghood at April 25, 2024 04:28 PM (NpAcC)
----
We'll know he's scraping the bottom of the barrel when he teams up with Keith Olbermann and they broadcast from each others' basements....

Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at April 25, 2024 04:31 PM (7fElN)

139 I really liked Tucker when he was on Fox.... Except the UFO thing... Maybe he has too much time on his hands now

Posted by: It's me donna at April 25, 2024 04:32 PM (Akjoo)

140 You know what's NOT a UAP?

A penguin! They can't fly!

Posted by: Wesley Crusher at April 25, 2024 04:32 PM (a3Q+t)

141 Hirohito realized that our God was stronger than their God.

Posted by: pawn at April 25, 2024 04:32 PM (QB+5g)

142 130 What is inherently evil about a nuclear weapon?

Why more so than a MOAB, a JDAM, a pistol, an arrow propelled by a bow (long, cross, horn etc.) or a rock clenched in my fist?

Just degrees of lethality.

Posted by: Pete Bog at April 25, 2024 04:30 PM (AexFl)

If you're directly hit, you've vaporized, so not cruel. If you not directly incinerated by the heat blast, or blown to pulp by the pressure wave, well, not so much fun.
Side effects include: vomitting, loss of hair, loss of appetite, hot dog fingers...

Posted by: jim (in Kalifornia) at April 25, 2024 04:32 PM (ynpvh)

143 Is he wrong that hitting non combatants with buckts of sunshine qualifies as evil?

There was a good argument for it and I am not bothered by it but that does not mean it was good.

Posted by: N at April 25, 2024 04:32 PM (RjBju)

144 Could be the assessment of Carlson going the clickbait route is accurate… of course ALL the internet is, is clickbait…

Posted by: tubal at April 25, 2024 04:32 PM (PCK5/)

145 Maybe he should go back to wearing the bowtie?

Posted by: Martini Farmer at April 25, 2024 04:32 PM (R+EIn)

146 >>I don't think there's any question that Gislane's dad Robert Maxwell was an agent not just of Mossad, but of MI-6 as well. He introduced Epstein to his daughter and basically handed off the family business that was blackmail for intelligence agencies. There's no way you run a multi-decade sex trafficking operation that was essentially an open secret without being protected from on high, or having the dirt.

I have no doubt Epstein was working with various intel agencies including the CIA. He was allowed to operate with impunity on US soil for years, I don't think there's a chance in hell the CIA would allow foreign intel agencies to operate here without have their claws in the action.

The Russia collusion scandal gave us a glimpse into how the intel community in various of our allies works with the CIA to achieve the results they want.

Posted by: JackStraw at April 25, 2024 04:33 PM (LkLld)

147 140 You know what's NOT a UAP?

A penguin! They can't fly!

Posted by: Wesley Crusher at April 25, 2024 04:32 PM (a3Q+t)

::: loading a penguin in my trebuchet :::

Posted by: jim (in Kalifornia) at April 25, 2024 04:33 PM (ynpvh)

148 There's a Christian concept that any sin is the turning away from God, and is therefore, evil.

Obviously there are levels of evil.
Posted by: BurtTC at April 25, 2024 04:28 PM (dGCAG)
--------------------------------

And God thought that there were/are certain groups of people that should be eliminated.

Posted by: Braenyard - today, people don't understand the putting of one's foot DOWN at April 25, 2024 04:33 PM (lCWOD)

149 Would China have gone communist without the Japanese taking of Manchukuo?

I dunno. Just asking questions.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, fighting kaiju with Ishiro Honda at April 25, 2024 04:28 PM (GBKbO)

Mao had a fairly powerful faction and a decent base after the Long March in the hills inland in north China. But the real advantage came after the war when Russia took Manchuria and the Communists moved there. This made it impossible for Chiang to move against their army while they built up.

The Nationalists might have been able to defeat them, or might have lost regardless.

Posted by: Oldcat at April 25, 2024 04:33 PM (eoQWY)

150 Who gives a shit? Government is evil. There's never been one that wasn't. But it's central legitimate function is to wage war. Winning as quickly as possible is all that matters, period.

Posted by: Yudhishthira's Dice at April 25, 2024 04:33 PM (0FoWg)

151 After Carlson touched the third rail at FNC with the tiny beginnings of a J6 investigative piece, he walked off the set, bumped into a guy he didn't know, then ducked into the mens'.

The stranger was an operator. TuCa had been pricked in the thigh with a needle, Guys in black took him from the mens' where he was slumped in a stall, and whisked him to a west side apartment where he was castrated and a chip was embedded in the back of his neck above the hairline.

The result is a new TuCa, we'll call him Tu Two, and he is under 24/7 control, remotely, by a CIA team that is bunked in a shed in a secret location.

Posted by: Mr Gaga at April 25, 2024 04:33 PM (KiBMU)

152 Japan had to do it! They needed more oil to expand its already going war into China! Which it started. Which was the center of many of the warcrimes tried at the Tokyo Trials.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison

Weird how they never want to discuss what happened to Korea on November 17, 1905.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at April 25, 2024 04:33 PM (IG4Id)

153 Great writing Ace. Cogent argument, but gravamen ?

Does that go on potatoes, or is that like Gerry Nadler ?

Posted by: Hatari somewhere on Ventura Highway at April 25, 2024 04:34 PM (NtVYv)

154 Yes, I am self-serving, I don't care. My father was in first waves of the Leyte invasion, and he likely would have been the same for Olympic or Coronet (40mm AAA on the beaches for the kamikazes... yeah). The troops all heaved a sigh of relief that our scientists used technology to end the fighting. The arm-chair moralists, then and now, can suck it.

Posted by: goatexchange at April 25, 2024 04:34 PM (kfr/R)

155 Afternoon.

I think ole Tick is letting out his inner paleo-conservative. He'll go full John Birch Society before too long.

As for UFOs...shit gets sketchy there, man. Something's going on. The truth is out there, motherfuckers.

Posted by: Robert at April 25, 2024 04:34 PM (BhMhR)

156 I think he is missing that 2 things can exist simultaneously. You can find civilian casualties and the aftermath of the nuclear bombs heartbreaking. I don’t think you are human if children being killed and maim doesn’t lay heavy on your heart. You can understand nuclear weapons are in all but the most dire of circumstances something you would want to avoid. At the same time, you can understand war is by its nature ugly. You can understand that not everyone is going to fight fairly and adhere to the ideal civilians are not going to be involved. You understand that if you are going to enter something as terrible as war, you should do so with the absolute goal of winning it. If you are going to go through hell, have it matter in the end and mattering can mean a deterrent going forward. You can understand, even with the goal of winning, nuclear weapons should be the last option, but an option when there is nothing else.

Posted by: Piper at April 25, 2024 04:34 PM (ZdaMQ)

157 My Dad was on a ship from the Philippines (where he had been a combat veteran in '45) to Japan when the bombs were dropped. He thought he'd die in Japan, but when he got there, the war was over.
Posted by: jim (in Kalifornia) at April 25, 2024 04:30 PM (ynpvh)

There's also every US POW in Japan that the government planned to murder in the event of an invasion.

Japan was prima facie evil in WWII.

Posted by: Formerly Virginian at April 25, 2024 04:34 PM (N1tpc)

158 >>>The result is a new TuCa, we'll call him Tu Two, and he is under 24/7 control, remotely, by a CIA team that is bunked in a shed in a secret location.

I can neither confirm nor deny.

Posted by: " " " Tucker Carlson " " " at April 25, 2024 04:34 PM (KRtlO)

159 TC has done gone off the rails.
Posted by: Catch Thirty-Thr33 at April 25, 2024 04:30 PM (mggQ3)

Personally, I think it's the politicians in this country, and others in the so-called West, who are cumming all over themselves at the prospects of war with everyone, including dropping nooks all over the planet, who have gone off the rails.

But that's just me.

Posted by: BurtTC at April 25, 2024 04:34 PM (dGCAG)

160 'Tucker Carlson continues his headlong rush to the far left.'

this is no longer a Far Left position, the Far Left is fine with it since it gives them the basis for their power and something to beat the conservatives with. It is, however, an exhausted position since it seems to have justified so much since them. There was a school of thought, up until WWI when it was suddenly the most treasonous point of view ever (like a lot of other ones) that "In winning the war against Spain and taking her colonies, we have become Spain" and in the logic of controlling overseas colonies, we had in many ways become Spain.

it may be we had no choice, and all of my uncles survived WWII in the Navy because of the bombings, but it also created a situation where the US became very similar to an imperial power, much in the way that the Romans winning the Third Punic war may have made the creation of the Imperial Roman state inevitable.

Posted by: Kindltot at April 25, 2024 04:34 PM (D7oie)

161 It is not just that he is wrong on many levels...he is also wrong on the facts.

Posted by: garrett at April 25, 2024 04:34 PM (Lc5iI)

162 That's when he was really only known for opposing the WoT and the left called him a "reasonable conservative"
Posted by: 18-1 at April 25, 2024 04:29 PM (ibTVg)

-----

But he was right. Tell me the gains we made in the war on terror. On a scale, we killed some assholes, they killed and maimed a number of our military. I'm not sure we got our money's worth. 20 effing years.

Posted by: Seems Legit at April 25, 2024 04:35 PM (JeYYB)

163 Telling the king that his son, who just kidnapped and raped your sister, can marry her as long as all of the males in the city get circumcised, then massacring everyone in the city 3 days later while all of the men are incapacitated from said circumcision is better or worse than dropping a nuke?

Posted by: Cat Ass Trophy at April 25, 2024 04:35 PM (PHukT)

164 Hirohito realized that our God was stronger than their God.
Posted by: pawn

And that he wasn't an effing god. Good.
And he just went back to studying jellyfish.

Posted by: Bulgaroctonus at April 25, 2024 04:35 PM (9yWhg)

165 >>>Maybe he has too much time on his hands now
Posted by: It's me donna at April 25, 2024 04:32 PM (Akjoo)

=====

You asked for it:

https://youtu.be/fsOrty4RmSA?si=p_gQEaGp-uI7H-uG

Posted by: Turn 2 at April 25, 2024 04:35 PM (GPSZ3)

166 I think that Tucker needed external controls like Fox News to avoid to much seat-of-the-pants thinking.

Posted by: Axeman at April 25, 2024 04:35 PM (krQz2)

167 81 People who have been Americans for hundreds of years understand that it's evil to argue for dropping the atomic bomb on Japan. We prefer carpet bombing cities, especially roasting civilians in firebombings.
Posted by: C. Tarlson at April 25, 2024 04:25 PM (9e2in)

It’s far better for women and children to be asphyxiated in bomb shelters because the firestorms from the bombings of Hamburg (for example) were so intense that it pulled in the oxygen from the shelters.

That’ll help Mr. Carlson sleep at night.

Posted by: Catch Thirty-Thr33 at April 25, 2024 04:35 PM (mggQ3)

168 Is he wrong that hitting non combatants with buckts of sunshine qualifies as evil?

There was a good argument for it and I am not bothered by it but that does not mean it was good.
Posted by: N at April 25, 2024 04:32 PM (RjBju)

You can use that logic on anything. Napalm, Incendiaries, high explosives, bullets, clubs, your fist....

Posted by: Oldcat at April 25, 2024 04:35 PM (eoQWY)

169 >>> I really liked Tucker when he was on Fox.... Except the UFO thing... Maybe he has too much time on his hands now
Posted by: It's me donna at April 25, 2024 04:32 PM (Akjoo)

^^ This

Posted by: Styx at April 25, 2024 04:35 PM (Y6IkP)

170 Didn't he say something about becoming Kali(fornia), the goddess of death and destruction?
Posted by: jim (in Kalifornia) at April 25, 2024 04:31 PM (ynpvh)
----------
Shiva. Quoting the Mahabharata.

Posted by: Captain Obvious, Laird o' the Sea, Radioactive Knight at April 25, 2024 04:35 PM (Be/+i)

171 Alternate Headline: What Kompromat Does the Deep State Possess on Putin Spy Tucker Carlson.

Posted by: ShainS -- Blood-Bath-and-Beyond angel investor at April 25, 2024 04:35 PM (Q3+9O)

172 149 Would China have gone communist without the Japanese taking of Manchukuo?

I dunno. Just asking questions.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, fighting kaiju with Ishiro Honda at April 25, 2024 04:28 PM (GBKbO)

Mao had a fairly powerful faction and a decent base after the Long March in the hills inland in north China. But the real advantage came after the war when Russia took Manchuria and the Communists moved there. This made it impossible for Chiang to move against their army while they built up.

The Nationalists might have been able to defeat them, or might have lost regardless.

Posted by: Oldcat at April 25, 2024 04:33 PM (eoQWY)

The Nationalists were pretty completely infiltrated with commies. Chiang Kai-shek's son was being held by the commies in Russia as additional leverage.

Posted by: jim (in Kalifornia) at April 25, 2024 04:35 PM (ynpvh)

173 " Hell yes. Again, America First.
Posted by: Seems Legit"

I don't think "isolationist" is a bad word. F' Mitch McConnell.

Posted by: fd at April 25, 2024 04:36 PM (vFG9F)

174 sometimes it's not even that he's wrong. I can see arguments for this POV.

It's his smug dogmatic pronouncements. He shares this in common with the leftwingers he's cozying up to.

Posted by: ace at April 25, 2024 04:13 PM

This very same thing happened to howard stern. He was anti anything liberals in NYC did for years and years. He would call them stupid and idiots on his radio show constantly. After he started getting *famous* he did an almost immediate hard left turn and now he is a complete and total left wing zealot.

Posted by: Mister Scott (Formerly GWS) at April 25, 2024 04:36 PM (QNSds)

175 And now for something completely different. This guy may have his economic ducks in a row but his relationship skills could use a little work. (

https://shorturl.at/ilDPV

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, I've Been Through the Desert On a Horse With No Shame at April 25, 2024 04:36 PM (FVME7)

176 Continuing pounding Japan into the ground would have killed hundreds of thousands

Posted by: Skip at April 25, 2024 04:36 PM (fwDg9)

177 And while I don't know that Jeffrey Epstein was an agent being run by Israel, I'm completely willing to believe it. It's not out of the question, certainly.

____________________________

Meh...the only way Clinton becomes a frequent flyer to that island is if it's being run by our guys....not Israel. Additionally, there was juice to limit the charges against Epstein when he got caught the first time. That only happens internally, not be an outside entity.

Posted by: Orson at April 25, 2024 04:36 PM (dIske)

178 I like Tucker Carlson. I watched his show regularly. But that also means I'm familiar with Tucker's overstating his case.

Posted by: Axeman at April 25, 2024 04:36 PM (krQz2)

179 That is to assume the west (i.e. the U.S. of A.) wants an end to the conflict in the middle east.

Yep. Israel was moving along just fine in normalizing relations with most of the Arab world. But we, the USA, could not keep our damn noses out of it.

I swear, its the Old Football Fan approach to global politics. It there is a conflict somewhere, the old WarCocks want to see our boys in it.

Posted by: Its Always Been This Way at April 25, 2024 04:36 PM (i7drE)

180 >>>Personally, I think it's the politicians in this country, and others in the so-called West, who are cumming all over themselves at the prospects of war with everyone, including dropping nooks all over the planet, who have gone off the rails.

yes they have, but does that mean we have to go off the rails in the opposite direction? So we can "counter-balance" them with our own wacky stuff?

Posted by: ace at April 25, 2024 04:36 PM (KRtlO)

181 @162 The defense contractors definitively got their moneys worth.

Posted by: Allen at April 25, 2024 04:36 PM (lFLgt)

182 >>The result is a new TuCa, we'll call him Tu Two, and he is under 24/7 control, remotely, by a CIA team that is bunked in a shed in a secret location.

When Tucker first got out of school he applied for a job at his father's old company, the CIA. He was turned down so he went into the media.

Posted by: JackStraw at April 25, 2024 04:37 PM (LkLld)

183 Personally, I think it's the politicians in this country, and others in the so-called West, who are cumming all over themselves at the prospects of war with everyone, including dropping nooks all over the planet, who have gone off the rails.

But that's just me.
Posted by: BurtTC at April 25, 2024 04:34 PM (dGCAG)

Yeah, but we are talking about TC’s moral preening over the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

We need to rediscover DIME.

Posted by: Catch Thirty-Thr33 at April 25, 2024 04:37 PM (mggQ3)

184 John 14:6

6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the TRUTH, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.

Posted by: Puddleglum, cheer up for the worst is yet to come at April 25, 2024 04:37 PM (sAmhv)

185 As a thought leader, I've come to the realization that we shouldn't have conducted any bombing, nuclear or otherwise. Candace Owens is right about the real victims of WWII.

Posted by: C. Tarlson at April 25, 2024 04:37 PM (9e2in)

186 >>>This very same thing happened to howard stern. He was anti anything liberals in NYC did for years and years. He would call them stupid and idiots on his radio show constantly. After he started getting *famous* he did an almost immediate hard left turn and now he is a complete and total left wing zealot.

yeah I think that was a whole different thing, that was just the ugly geek getting on TV (well, "America's Got Talent") and going Hollywood so he could finally sit at the cool kids' table.

Posted by: ace at April 25, 2024 04:37 PM (KRtlO)

187 Winning as quickly as possible is all that matters, period.
Posted by: Yudhishthira's Dice at April 25, 2024 04:33 PM (0FoWg)

Ah, but there's where things have changed. Governments discovered it was way more profitable to never end the wars.

And here we are.

Posted by: BurtTC at April 25, 2024 04:37 PM (dGCAG)

188 And Japan started it, so quit crying about it. Don't start a war then your not going to pay for it

Posted by: Skip at April 25, 2024 04:38 PM (fwDg9)

189 Did Malkin go loony? I joined Hotair when she ran the place; she always seemed levelheaded... and looked pretty good too. I see she's not writing anywhere anymore? She retired?

Posted by: SimoHayha at April 25, 2024 04:38 PM (N/k1H)

190 It does seem hard to find someone sane. Please do not start dating AOC, Ace.

Posted by: PG at April 25, 2024 04:38 PM (gQbO4)

191 180 yes they have, but does that mean we have to go off the rails in the opposite direction? So we can "counter-balance" them with our own wacky stuff?
Posted by: ace at April 25, 2024 04:36 PM (KRtlO)

=======

If one is to be generous, one might say that Tucker is arguing that governments should not have the power of nuclear weapons because they are untrustworthy today and would be more willing to use nuclear weapons on their own populations than anyone else.

If one is to be generous. Honestly, quite generous.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, fighting kaiju with Ishiro Honda at April 25, 2024 04:38 PM (GBKbO)

192 >>>We need to rediscover DIME.

what's dime?

Posted by: ace at April 25, 2024 04:38 PM (KRtlO)

193 167 81 People who have been Americans for hundreds of years understand that it's evil to argue for dropping the atomic bomb on Japan. We prefer carpet bombing cities, especially roasting civilians in firebombings.
Posted by: C. Tarlson at April 25, 2024 04:25 PM (9e2in)

It’s far better for women and children to be asphyxiated in bomb shelters because the firestorms from the bombings of Hamburg (for example) were so intense that it pulled in the oxygen from the shelters.

That’ll help Mr. Carlson sleep at night.

Posted by: Catch Thirty-Thr33 at April 25, 2024 04:35 PM (mggQ3)

::: sieges of old have entered the chat :::

Posted by: jim (in Kalifornia) at April 25, 2024 04:38 PM (ynpvh)

194 It Is easy to argue that Japan behaved more barbarically than we did in wwii and that is true.

The rape of Nanking was more evil than bombing Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

That does not mean that we do not benefit from striving to be more right.

I am not interested in racing to the bottom of morality.

Posted by: N at April 25, 2024 04:38 PM (RjBju)

195 At what point in the A-bomb development and testing did we let the Brits in on it? Or were they a part of it pretty much from the beginning?

Posted by: Bulgaroctonus at April 25, 2024 04:38 PM (9yWhg)

196 166 I think that Tucker needed external controls like Fox News to avoid to much seat-of-the-pants thinking.
Posted by: Axeman at April 25, 2024 04:35 PM (krQz2)
*******
It's becoming apparently clear that he needed restraints.

Posted by: redridinghood at April 25, 2024 04:38 PM (NpAcC)

197 It’s funny but a lot of people who have Media access just say whatever shit pops into their heads for the world to observe…

Posted by: tubal at April 25, 2024 04:38 PM (PCK5/)

198 But it's central legitimate function is to wage war. Winning as quickly as possible is all that matters, period.
Posted by: Yudhishthira's Dice

Well, I'd gild-the-lily in that "The primary charge of a government is the defense of its citizens and its borders," which includes making just war. But whatev's.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at April 25, 2024 04:38 PM (IG4Id)

199 The Russia collusion scandal gave us a glimpse into how the intel community in various of our allies works with the CIA to achieve the results they want.
Posted by: JackStraw
----------------------------

5 eyes are watching you, watching you

Posted by: Braenyard - today, people don't understand the putting of one's foot DOWN at April 25, 2024 04:38 PM (lCWOD)

200 188 And Japan started it, so quit crying about it. Don't start a war then your not going to pay for it
Posted by: Skip at April 25, 2024 04:38 PM (fwDg9)

=======

"We didn't do anything."
-Japan by the mid-50s, at the latest

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, fighting kaiju with Ishiro Honda at April 25, 2024 04:38 PM (GBKbO)

201 Yeah, but we are talking about TC’s moral preening over the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

We need to rediscover DIME.
Posted by: Catch Thirty-Thr33 at April 25, 2024 04:37 PM (mggQ3)

I know that's what you're talking about.

But it's really not what he was talking about, nor is it what matters now.

What matters now is the headlong pursuit of nukular Armageddon that is coming, and people are mad at a talk show host who said something indelicate?

Posted by: BurtTC at April 25, 2024 04:39 PM (dGCAG)

202 170 Didn't he say something about becoming Kali(fornia), the goddess of death and destruction?
Posted by: jim (in Kalifornia) at April 25, 2024 04:31 PM (ynpvh)
----------
Shiva. Quoting the Mahabharata.

Posted by: Captain Obvious, Laird o' the Sea, Radioactive Knight at April 25, 2024 04:35 PM (Be/+i)

Oh, Gesundheit.

Posted by: jim (in Kalifornia) at April 25, 2024 04:39 PM (ynpvh)

203 None of these idiots ever address the Japanese policy of in home manufacturing during WWII.

The civilians were building components at their kitchen tables, all over the country.

Posted by: garrett at April 25, 2024 04:39 PM (Lc5iI)

204 Speaking of B-29s bombing Japan, story with a surprise ending. (

https://shorturl.at/duLNQ

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, I've Been Through the Desert On a Horse With No Shame at April 25, 2024 04:39 PM (FVME7)

205 I disliked Tucker Carlson long before it was cool. To be fair though I dislike almost every political pundit.

I’ve always disliked Jonah Goldberg even at the height of his popularity because all of his opinion pieces had to show moral equivalence that the Right also did what he was currently criticizing the Left about.

I always saw Tucker as another Glenn Beck and he would eventually self destruct.

Posted by: polynikes at April 25, 2024 04:39 PM (MNhXM)

206 There's something about an Aqua Velva man.

Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at April 25, 2024 04:39 PM (63Dwl)

207 Yes, I am self-serving, I don't care. My father was in first waves of the Leyte invasion, and he likely would have been the same for Olympic or Coronet (40mm AAA on the beaches for the kamikazes... yeah). The troops all heaved a sigh of relief that our scientists used technology to end the fighting. The arm-chair moralists, then and now, can suck it.
Posted by: goatexchange at April 25, 2024 04:34 PM (kfr/R)

Japanese plans were to have the kamikaze planes and Tokko suicide craft ignore warships and go for the landing ships exclusively.

And even if all the troops were bulletproof the things they would have to do to give the Japanese to give up would form wounds in the psyche that would never heal. We saw that already on pretty much every island fight we had.

Posted by: Oldcat at April 25, 2024 04:39 PM (eoQWY)

208 "We didn't do anything."
-Japan by the mid-50s, at the latest
Posted by: TheJamesMadison,

Wrote it before, if you press older Japanese on the nuke matter, they'll admit they would have used them on the US and anyone else in their way.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at April 25, 2024 04:40 PM (IG4Id)

209 One thing that's been nagging me...

When McCartgy was Speaker, he gave Tucker the video from the security cameras at the Capitol on January 6. Tucker showed the first of what was supposed to be multiple nights of coverage. And then he lost his job.

And afaik, he never again showed any footage from January 6.

What happened? If the video was left behind at Fox - who then buried it - is there a reason why new copies weren't made available to him? Why did Tucker seemingly never bring it up again?

Posted by: junior at April 25, 2024 04:40 PM (JJ2jk)

210 181 @162 The defense contractors definitively got their moneys worth.
Posted by: Allen at April 25, 2024 04:36 PM (lFLgt)

------

This 100%

Posted by: Seems Legit at April 25, 2024 04:40 PM (JeYYB)

211 I liked his videos after the split from Murdoch News. Some good stuff there, IIRC. But I haven't watched any (on YT) lately, including his Putin interview. Not much interested in what Vlad has to say. When it comes to Russians, I pay attention to what they do, not to what they say. I disagree with a lot of people that we "lied" our way into the Second Gulf War, including Tucker and Ace. Eh. Tucker is just another voice. Maybe one day he'll have something interesting to say.

Posted by: mrp at April 25, 2024 04:40 PM (rj6Yv)

212 This very same thing happened to howard stern. He was anti anything liberals in NYC did for years and years. He would call them stupid and idiots on his radio show constantly. After he started getting *famous* he did an almost immediate hard left turn and now he is a complete and total left wing zealot.
Posted by: Mister Scott (Formerly GWS)

I loved Stern back in the 90s. He went national and one of the rock stations in Columbus, OH where I lived at the time started carrying him every morning. Listened to him almost every day. Loved the rebellious vibe he put out.

Now he's a broken old man lefty NPC. I think Covid really broke him.

Posted by: Biergood at April 25, 2024 04:40 PM (PwgSL)

213 Using nukes in Japan just proves the theory that a short violent, decisive war is preferable to a longer drawn out one. We dropped two nukes, and hundreds of thousands of lives were saved that would of been lost over the next year or two. As it was, war over in a week.

Posted by: Diogenes at April 25, 2024 04:41 PM (W/lyH)

214 Tucker Carlson also embracing one of the 10 mental defects common in all Leftists.

Presentism

Posted by: polynikes at April 25, 2024 04:41 PM (MNhXM)

215
You can use that logic on anything. Napalm, Incendiaries, high explosives, bullets, clubs, your fist....
Posted by: Old

Yes.
And?

Posted by: N at April 25, 2024 04:41 PM (RjBju)

216 176 Continuing pounding Japan into the ground would have killed hundreds of thousands

Posted by: Skip at April 25, 2024 04:36 PM (fwDg9)

I thought the expectation was millions.

Posted by: jim (in Kalifornia) at April 25, 2024 04:41 PM (ynpvh)

217 yes they have, but does that mean we have to go off the rails in the opposite direction? So we can "counter-balance" them with our own wacky stuff?
Posted by: ace at April 25, 2024 04:36 PM (KRtlO)

While I absolute appreciate us being much more judicious about the use of a military option in various places all over the world, there are too many people here who want to go in the complete opposite direction and want America to be whiny and toothless. And if that means the PRC taking over the world, so be it.

Too many people here just look at this country and cringe with embarrassment and overwhelming shame. I don’t. We need to use DIME when it comes to foreign policy again and use the M - military - as a last resort. But we also need to maintain the threat of power projection.

Posted by: Catch Thirty-Thr33 at April 25, 2024 04:41 PM (mggQ3)

218 We should have invaded, gassed the japs, and lost a million GIs.

Posted by: Commissar of Plenty and Lysenkoism in Solidarity with the Struggle to maintain Moron standards at April 25, 2024 04:42 PM (Q2P04)

219 There is no faster way to unmask a fallacious argument and find a contra intellectual fraud than to discuss Hiroshima and Nagasaki. It's even more revealing that Tucker clearly knows the history of our island hopping campaign in WW II, the human costs, complete Japanese brutality, and the ultimately the potential costs of invading the Japanese mainland.

War is Hell. But Tucker wouldn't know that because he never fought in one and gets his information from nutcases like COL. MacGregor. But this is simple math. Do you want to see more Americans and allies die, or more Japanese who told us outright they would not only never surrender, but take as many of us with them as they could. In war, that's an easy choice. There are largely few moral arguments to be made about more and even less for aggressors who not only started it, but are true believers in insidious, complete and unrelenting murder to win. Tucker can kiss my ass and of my relative who fought in the South Pacific were alive, they would throat punch him.

Posted by: Marcus T at April 25, 2024 04:42 PM (5x1xh)

220 >>>Now he's a broken old man lefty NPC. I think Covid really broke him.

he had turned hard left years before that. He called his own audience racist for having previously enjoyed his racial material!

He went full left 2015-2016, but people I know who kept listening to him (after he went on Sirius) say it was really America's Got Talent that changed him. He really thought he was a big Hollywood star.

Posted by: ace at April 25, 2024 04:42 PM (KRtlO)

221 Ah, but there's where things have changed. Governments discovered it was way more profitable to never end the wars.

And here we are.
Posted by: BurtTC at April 25, 2024

Yeah. Dragging your feet to deliberately lose your wars as slowly as possible so that you can get rich at the expense of your own troops' lives and your countrymen's security, while strengthening your enemies and increasing their prestige, is considerably more evil than frying a paltry few hundred thousand more bloodthirsty Nips so the boys can come back to Omaha.

I was tired of this fuckin' argument by fifth grade.

Posted by: Yudhishthira's Dice at April 25, 2024 04:42 PM (0FoWg)

222 So unexpected my balls hurt. ( not vouching for this, but this is their citation: )
https://tinyurl.com/ku92tzyu

@sentdefender
Israeli and U.N. Officials have both now Confirmed that during a recent Inspection of the Temporary Jetty in Central Gaza that will be utilized in conjunction with the U.S. Army’s Floating Dock to bring Humanitarian Aid into Gaza, they were Attacked by Hamas Mortar Fire resulting in Damage to several Pieces of Engineering Equipment while causing the U.N. Team to be Rushed to Shelters by IDF Soldiers.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at April 25, 2024 04:42 PM (IG4Id)

223 =======

If one is to be generous, one might say that Tucker is arguing that governments should not have the power of nuclear weapons because they are untrustworthy today and would be more willing to use nuclear weapons on their own populations than anyone else.

If one is to be generous. Honestly, quite generous.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, fighting kaiju with Ishiro Honda
--------------------------------

That honesty is whistling at windmills.

oh, the poor metaphor

Posted by: Braenyard - today, people don't understand the putting of one's foot DOWN at April 25, 2024 04:42 PM (lCWOD)

224 yes they have, but does that mean we have to go off the rails in the opposite direction? So we can "counter-balance" them with our own wacky stuff?
Posted by: ace at April 25, 2024 04:36 PM (KRtlO)

Which part is the wacky stuff? The UFO biz? The Alex Jones as a profit thing?

Remember where this was. It was a 3 hour conversation with Joe Rogan. Tucker says silly things, and in that setting, the stream of consciousness aspect of sitting there with Rogan gets to damn near everybody.

Like I said up further, I think if you could get Tucker to admit it, he's acknowledge he was wrong to impugn the character of everyone who favored the Japan nooks.

He probably won't say it, but I think he knows he was wrong.

Posted by: BurtTC at April 25, 2024 04:42 PM (dGCAG)

225 Another own goal by the left.

@_johnnymaga
🚨David Pecker's testimony today destroyed the prosecution's case

He testified that Trump "had no idea what [he] was talking about" when he asked about reimbursing Michael Cohen for the Stormy payment

He also said the "catch & kill" scheme was devised by him & Cohen--NOT Trump

Posted by: JackStraw at April 25, 2024 04:43 PM (LkLld)

226 218 We should have invaded, gassed the japs, and lost a million GIs.
Posted by: Commissar of Plenty and Lysenkoism in Solidarity with the Struggle to maintain Moron standards at April 25, 2024 04:42 PM (Q2P04)

=======

Alt history:

Truman is considered history's greatest monster because he could have ended WWII with a pair of flashes, but he chose to go the route he considered the more moral. That moral path led to the 3 more years of war, killing millions of Japanese civilians in bloody, urban combat.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, fighting kaiju with Ishiro Honda at April 25, 2024 04:43 PM (GBKbO)

227 Honestly, had we not had the bomb we would have just firebombed Japan until they surrendered. Don’t really see any difference between the two except the novelty of the A-bomb.

Posted by: Puddinhead at April 25, 2024 04:43 PM (BjRQH)

228 208 "We didn't do anything."
-Japan by the mid-50s, at the latest
Posted by: TheJamesMadison,

Wrote it before, if you press older Japanese on the nuke matter, they'll admit they would have used them on the US and anyone else in their way.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at April 25, 2024 04:40 PM (IG4Id)

Like da Nasties and Us, the Japs were trying to develop one.

Posted by: jim (in Kalifornia) at April 25, 2024 04:43 PM (ynpvh)

229 >>>Tucker Carlson also embracing one of the 10 mental defects common in all Leftists.
Presentism

What the fuck, man?

Posted by: Santa Claus at April 25, 2024 04:43 PM (KRtlO)

230 Oh, Gesundheit.
Posted by: jim (in Kalifornia) at April 25, 2024 04:39 PM (ynpvh)
----------
Thank you.

Posted by: Captain Obvious, Laird o' the Sea, Radioactive Knight at April 25, 2024 04:43 PM (Be/+i)

231 Something else Chesterton said: "War is not the best way of settling differences; it is the only way of preventing their being settled for you."

Posted by: Elisabeth G. Wolfe at April 25, 2024 04:43 PM (LLJRz)

232 At what point in the A-bomb development and testing did we let the Brits in on it? Or were they a part of it pretty much from the beginning?
Posted by: Bulgaroctonus at April 25, 2024 04:38 PM (9yWhg)

I think we shared information with them and to a lesser extent the Russians but given that it took until 1952 to get a bomb of their own I don't think they were closely involved. Also reduces the chance of the Germans learning about it.

Posted by: Oldcat at April 25, 2024 04:44 PM (eoQWY)

233
Mao had a fairly powerful faction and a decent base after the Long March in the hills inland in north China. But the real advantage came after the war when Russia took Manchuria and the Communists moved there. This made it impossible for Chiang to move against their army while they built up.

The Nationalists might have been able to defeat them, or might have lost regardless.

Posted by: Oldcat at April 25, 2024 04:33 PM (eoQWY)

I think it was simply that Mao decided to largely sit out the war in the north and let the Japs slaughter the KMT troops while the ChiComs built up for the inevitable civil war against Chiang, doing most of the work for him. If memory serves, the US had to basically threaten to cut off the ChiComs from US supplies in order to get them off their asses to attack the Japs.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at April 25, 2024 04:44 PM (n+4am)

234 I don't trust any man these days. Nope the days full of deception. Ace let's not turn into a littlegreenfootball. Okay ? Okay.

Posted by: Plainoldtoast at April 25, 2024 04:44 PM (ytSiK)

235 I've heard, and I don't know if it's actually true, that all Purple Hearts being awarded today still come from stock manufactured in WWII. They were expecting so many casualties from an attack on mainland Japan that they ordered a shitload of them.

Posted by: Mark1971 at April 25, 2024 04:44 PM (xPl2J)

236 he had turned hard left years before that. He called his own audience racist for having previously enjoyed his racial material!

He went full left 2015-2016, but people I know who kept listening to him (after he went on Sirius) say it was really America's Got Talent that changed him. He really thought he was a big Hollywood star.
Posted by: ace

Man, that's sad. I stopped listening to him around 2010 when he went over to pay radio.

Posted by: Biergood at April 25, 2024 04:44 PM (PwgSL)

237 What matters now is the headlong pursuit of nukular Armageddon that is coming, and people are mad at a talk show host who said something indelicate?
Posted by: BurtTC at April 25, 2024 04:39 PM (dGCAG)

Huh?

Nuclear Armageddon is coming? Says who? (Idiots. I’ve heard that so damn much the past four years or so I’m just at the point of wake me when a nuke actually goes off. It’s all talk. Talk is cheap.)

Posted by: Catch Thirty-Thr33 at April 25, 2024 04:45 PM (mggQ3)

238 I’ve always disliked Jonah Goldberg even at the height of his popularity because all of his opinion pieces had to show moral equivalence that the Right also did what he was currently criticizing the Left about.
Posted by: polynikes

That and he was/is lazy; he was interviewed for his 'Liberal Fascism' book by a dozen rightie outlets and used the same exact marketing patter in each one.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at April 25, 2024 04:45 PM (IG4Id)

239 I look at the nukes in a purely strategic way.

We would have faced another two years of war, and well over a million American casualties as we killed women and children armed with spears, because the emperor told his people to die rather than surrender.

The nukes saved both American lives and Japanese lives, and to an American, an American life is worth far more than a Japanese one.

Sorry if that offends anyone, but it is the truth, and the kind of truth nobody seems to want to admit anymore.

Posted by: Thomas Paine at April 25, 2024 04:45 PM (lTGtQ)

240 Estimates from 100K to over a million GI casualties ? Yeah - drop the nukes. I would have glassed the place first.

Tucker's a man thats never faced personal moral danger. Never liked the limp-wristed bowtie wearing faggot in the first place.

Posted by: Its Always Been This Way at April 25, 2024 04:45 PM (i7drE)

241 >>> I don't trust any man these days. Nope the days full of deception. Ace let's not turn into a littlegreenfootball. Okay ? Okay.

so I'm in danger of going littlegreenfootballs if I defend the *right* POV against a leftwing critique?

Things are changing fast.

Posted by: ace at April 25, 2024 04:45 PM (KRtlO)

242 did he apologize for storming over to Mar a Lago, freaking Trump out with his harridan-esque screeching, and pushing him to lock us down yet or nah?

nah, right? he was so very proud of doing that

Posted by: BlackOrchid at April 25, 2024 04:46 PM (s3qiR)

243 You know who else is waking up?
WaPo: George Will wakes up to see his monster. Stoking the passion that is their excuse for pandering - the nihilism of a febrile minority in their party - a majority of House Republicans - voted last Saturday to endanger civilization. Hoping to enhance their political security in their mostly safe seats, and for the infantile satisfaction of populist naughtiness (insulting a mostly fictitious “establishment”, they voted to assure Vladimir Putin’s attempt to erase a European nation...Tuesday’s Senate ratification of Ukrainian aid proves that Dwight Eisenhower’s baton of Republican internationalism was passed, via Ronald Reagan, to Mitch McConnell."

I've always held George Will in low esteem, but he's a talented wordsmith nevertheless. "J.D. Vance, an itinerant Neville Chamberlain visiting green rooms". I am so stealing that.

Right when our last living WW2 vets go to their reward, the GOPigs spit in these heroes' freedom-fighting faces.

Will, like Buckley before him, fancies himself a conservative intellectual, though he was always careful to maintain a sanitary distance from the culture warriors.

Posted by: Intercepted DU Transmissions brought by the Intrepid AoS Liaison at April 25, 2024 04:46 PM (JCZqz)

244 I think this is very fair analysis of where Tucker has gone, and I also respect people with the courage of their convictions and the honesty to state them clearly. So they can be honestly debunked.

Tucker is from the MSM, and you will pry the pretense of objectivity from their cold, dead hands.

Posted by: San Franpsycho at April 25, 2024 04:46 PM (RIvkX)

245 241 Things are changing fast.
Posted by: ace at April 25, 2024 04:45 PM (KRtlO)

========

*considers mentioning Prometheus*

*thinks better of mentioning Prometheus and does not mention Prometheus*

*does own part to keep thread Prometheus free*

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, fighting kaiju with Ishiro Honda at April 25, 2024 04:46 PM (GBKbO)

246 I thought the expectation was millions.
Posted by: jim (in Kalifornia) at April 25, 2024 04:41 PM (ynpvh)

Millions of them. Hundreds of thousands of us. Not even a consideration. We had the edge. We used it. Everyone in the event benefitted from the decision.

The only argument to be made against it was that we let the genie out of the bottle, that edge didn't last, the technology threatens the whole globe now, and the people in charge on our side are out of their fucking heads.

But that was all unknowable at the time. Truman made the right call.

Posted by: Yudhishthira's Dice at April 25, 2024 04:46 PM (0FoWg)

247 At what point in the A-bomb development and testing did we let the Brits in on it? Or were they a part of it pretty much from the beginning?
Posted by: Bulgaroctonus

The Brits gave us their nuclear research material. They had it first. See the Tizzard mission.

Posted by: Thomas Paine at April 25, 2024 04:46 PM (lTGtQ)

248 Germany if they hadn't lost first could have been nuked

Posted by: Skip at April 25, 2024 04:46 PM (fwDg9)

249 226 218 We should have invaded, gassed the japs, and lost a million GIs.
Posted by: Commissar of Plenty and Lysenkoism in Solidarity with the Struggle to maintain Moron standards at April 25, 2024 04:42 PM (Q2P04)

=======

Alt history:

Truman is considered history's greatest monster because he could have ended WWII with a pair of flashes, but he chose to go the route he considered the more moral. That moral path led to the 3 more years of war, killing millions of Japanese civilians in bloody, urban combat.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, fighting kaiju with Ishiro Honda at April 25, 2024 04:43 PM (GBKbO)

Heard that Truman, when vacillating on using nukes, was told by one of his advisors, "What will you do, three years from now during your impeachment, when it comes out you could have saved millions of GIs by dropping an atomic bomb?"...

Posted by: jim (in Kalifornia) at April 25, 2024 04:46 PM (ynpvh)

250 tucker could be right or wrong or sideways

I don't care

he squicks me; bad vibe

and he seems very hesitant to be actually thoughtful

Posted by: BlackOrchid at April 25, 2024 04:47 PM (s3qiR)

251 I'm skeptical about everything now, except they want us to die.

Posted by: Miley, okravangelist at April 25, 2024 04:47 PM (w6EFb)

252 248 Germany if they hadn't lost first could have been nuked
Posted by: Skip at April 25, 2024 04:46 PM (fwDg9)

=======

It's my understanding the the original idea was the develop the nukes to be used on Germany. They just folded first.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, fighting kaiju with Ishiro Honda at April 25, 2024 04:47 PM (GBKbO)

253 221 Ah, but there's where things have changed. Governments discovered it was way more profitable to never end the wars.

And here we are.
Posted by: BurtTC at April 25, 2024

And being whiny and toothless is just so much better.

Posted by: Catch Thirty-Thr33 at April 25, 2024 04:47 PM (mggQ3)

254 >>>242 did he apologize for storming over to Mar a Lago, freaking Trump out with his harridan-esque screeching, and pushing him to lock us down yet or nah?

oh right, he was one of the Covid Karens, wasn't he? I always forget that.

Posted by: ace at April 25, 2024 04:47 PM (KRtlO)

255 Glenn Beck is really good at doing one thing: selling Glenn Beck.

Posted by: And food insurance at April 25, 2024 04:47 PM (jAber)

256 Now he's a broken old man lefty NPC. I think Covid really broke him.

Posted by: Biergood at April 25, 2024 04:40 PM (PwgSL)
---
Scratch a libertarian and ~50% of the time, you'll find a liberal/libertine underneath.

Posted by: Axeman at April 25, 2024 04:47 PM (krQz2)

257 242 did he apologize for storming over to Mar a Lago, freaking Trump out with his harridan-esque screeching, and pushing him to lock us down yet or nah?

nah, right? he was so very proud of doing that

Posted by: BlackOrchid at April 25, 2024 04:46 PM (s3qiR)

-----

Who are you referring to? Serious question.

Posted by: Seems Legit at April 25, 2024 04:47 PM (JeYYB)

258 *considers mentioning Prometheus*

*thinks better of mentioning Prometheus and does not mention Prometheus*

*does own part to keep thread Prometheus free*
Posted by: TheJamesMadison

*considers mentioning guns*

*thinks better of mentioning guns and does not mention guns*

*does own part to keep thread gun free*

Posted by: rickb223 at April 25, 2024 04:48 PM (Jxvt5)

259 DIME
Diplomatic
Information
Military
Economic
Seeks to avoid counterproductive and conflicting activities during tactical operations through mission planning and execution.

Posted by: Diogenes at April 25, 2024 04:48 PM (W/lyH)

260 Posted by: ace at April 25, 2024 04:42 PM (KRtlO)

Yeah he was always Leftist. He was raised by Leftists parents . He built his career though by being a shit to everyone in power be it celebrity or politician. It was all schtick.

I like listening because of the studio turmoil. It was like a hilarious soap opera.

Posted by: polynikes at April 25, 2024 04:48 PM (MNhXM)

261 Jawbone of an ass > jawboning with Tucker

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, I've Been Through the Desert On a Horse With No Shame at April 25, 2024 04:48 PM (FVME7)

262 >Below, Tucker Carlson insists he has knowledge that the intelligence agencies are blackmailing congressmen -- but also says he can't say who's confessed to being blackmailed.

Like Corey Feldman, always promising to name Hollywood pedophiles, but never actually doing it.

Posted by: mr tmz at April 25, 2024 04:48 PM (rJ48h)

263 I'm embarrassed for you . There was no need to drop those bombs, the war was in effect, over.

Posted by: SAHMmy at April 25, 2024 04:49 PM (vpXdH)

264 My uncle went to boot camp with his best friend in 1939. His friend went to the Fourth Marines, Mell went to the Fifth. His friend died at Bataan and his remains were never found. Mel went on to receive the Navy Cross for actions on Iwo Jima. To his dying day he hated all things Japanese.

Posted by: Duke Lowell at April 25, 2024 04:49 PM (2UnvF)

265 232 At what point in the A-bomb development and testing did we let the Brits in on it? Or were they a part of it pretty much from the beginning?
Posted by: Bulgaroctonus at April 25, 2024 04:38 PM (9yWhg)

I think we shared information with them and to a lesser extent the Russians but given that it took until 1952 to get a bomb of their own I don't think they were closely involved. Also reduces the chance of the Germans learning about it.

Posted by: Oldcat at April 25, 2024 04:44 PM (eoQWY)

They developed the...sloika?..."jelly-rol"l style of A-bomb, as I recall reading. Good enough design for bombs up to a certain size.

Posted by: jim (in Kalifornia) at April 25, 2024 04:49 PM (ynpvh)

266 Some of us had Bowtie's number when he was carrying Buchanan's water.

Posted by: sven at April 25, 2024 04:49 PM (X0I7i)

267 Tucker sounds more like a 60s liberal than a modern leftist. A modern leftist would love to nuke a red state or city.

Posted by: Max Power at April 25, 2024 04:49 PM (q177U)

268 Germany if they hadn't lost first could have been nuked

Posted by: Skip

If Germany had had a rational leader, they would have had nukes and used them long before we did.

Posted by: Thomas Paine at April 25, 2024 04:49 PM (lTGtQ)

269 >>> There was no need to drop those bombs, the war was in effect, over.

Japan didn't seem to think it was over.

Posted by: ace at April 25, 2024 04:49 PM (KRtlO)

270 But this is simple math. Do you want to see more Americans and allies die, or more Japanese who told us outright they would not only never surrender, but take as many of us with them as they could. In war, that's an easy choice.

Posted by: Marcus T at April 25, 2024 04:42 PM (5x1xh)

That isn't quite the real equation. If the allies invade, not only do more of them die, but also far, far more Japanese fighters and civilians die. From war and starvation.

You can make the same decision leaving out all consideration of Allied deaths. An invasion would likely have virtually exterminated the Japanese nation. They expected it to themselves.

Posted by: Oldcat at April 25, 2024 04:49 PM (eoQWY)

271 263 I'm embarrassed for you . There was no need to drop those bombs, the war was in effect, over.
Posted by: SAHMmy at April 25, 2024 04:49 PM (vpXdH)

=======

Interesting alt-history right here.

Why did it take 2 atomic blasts to convince Japan to surrender, then?

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, fighting kaiju with Ishiro Honda at April 25, 2024 04:49 PM (GBKbO)

272 Pamphlets were dropped on major Japanese cities involved in the war effort to advise them to get out of Dodge. I suspect some did. They're known as survivors.

Side note, there was actually one guy officially documented as present both times.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsutomu_Yamaguchi

Monumentally shitty timing...

(Side note, there may have been as many as 160 who were affected by both, this is just the one guy the Japanese government recognized.)

Posted by: Brother Tim sez Nick Saban for President! at April 25, 2024 04:50 PM (OUMaO)

273 Huh?

Nuclear Armageddon is coming? Says who? (Idiots. I’ve heard that so damn much the past four years or so I’m just at the point of wake me when a nuke actually goes off. It’s all talk. Talk is cheap.)
Posted by: Catch Thirty-Thr33 at April 25, 2024 04:45 PM (mggQ3)

Says Macron. Says every American politician who is talking about sending troops to Ukraine.

Are you really not paying attention?

Posted by: BurtTC at April 25, 2024 04:50 PM (dGCAG)

274 It is very cheap virtue signaling to condemn earlier generations for decisions they had to make. They were the ones stuck dealing with imperial Japan, not someone pontificating 80 years later.

Posted by: Dr. Claw at April 25, 2024 04:50 PM (roH4R)

275 233
...

I think it was simply that Mao decided to largely sit out the war in the north and let the Japs slaughter the KMT troops while the ChiComs built up for the inevitable civil war against Chiang, doing most of the work for him. If memory serves, the US had to basically threaten to cut off the ChiComs from US supplies in order to get them off their asses to attack the Japs.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at April 25, 2024 04:44 PM (n+4am)

That's what I read too.

Posted by: jim (in Kalifornia) at April 25, 2024 04:50 PM (ynpvh)

276
He probably won't say it, but I think he knows he was wrong.
Posted by: BurtTC

How many other things does he know he was wrong about?

Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at April 25, 2024 04:50 PM (63Dwl)

277 263 u r a fag

Posted by: Yudhishthira's Dice at April 25, 2024 04:50 PM (0FoWg)

278 It's my understanding the the original idea was the develop the nukes to be used on Germany. They just folded first.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, fighting kaiju with Ishiro Honda at April 25, 2024 04:47 PM (GBKbO)
--------------
Yup. Berlin would have caught a nuke had they hung on till August.

Posted by: Captain Obvious, Laird o' the Sea, Radioactive Knight at April 25, 2024 04:50 PM (Be/+i)

279 254 Posted by: ace at April 25, 2024 04:47 PM (KRtlO)

Carlson has always been a tad histrionic, not like Grin Breck but still.

Posted by: sven at April 25, 2024 04:50 PM (X0I7i)

280 It's my understanding the the original idea was the develop the nukes to be used on Germany. They just folded first.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, fighting kaiju with Ishiro Honda at April 25, 2024 04:47 PM (GBKbO)

Yep. And it took longer to develop the first bomb due to the limitations of technology at the time. As I recall, what took 40,000 man-years of labor to do in the 1940s took India 2500 in the 1970s.

Posted by: Catch Thirty-Thr33 at April 25, 2024 04:50 PM (mggQ3)

281 Who are you referring to? Serious question.

the beginning of COVID mania

Trump was NOT going to lock us down. my husband watched tucker every night to my chagrin, so I heard him the whole week before going off like a ninny about how terrifying COVID was ... then he actually went (his own mouth!) to Mar a Lago and spent days haranguing Trump and convinced him to lock us down.

I'll never forget the show after when he CROWED about it. I'll not forgive him, not that he ever admitted he was wrong.

Posted by: BlackOrchid at April 25, 2024 04:50 PM (s3qiR)

282 So believing that bombing civilians makes you left wing? I really don't know what tribe I'm supposed to be a part of anymore.

Nobody has a problem pointing out all the war crimes of our enemies, but turn a blind eye when our own team does it. This kind of doublethink has been going on since Pearl Harbor, as far as Japan is concerned.

Posted by: Tinfoil Dispenser at April 25, 2024 04:50 PM (NAuoi)

283 @226 That moral path led to the 3 more years of war, killing millions of Japanese civilians in bloody, urban combat.

--------

You forgot the part where the islands were resettled by Americans fter the war because the Japanese race was virtually extinct outside of the Nissei in the US.

Posted by: junior at April 25, 2024 04:51 PM (JJ2jk)

284 Germany if they hadn't lost first could have been nuked

Posted by: Skip

If Germany had had a rational leader, they would have had nukes and used them long before we did.
Posted by: Thomas Paine at April 25, 2024 04:49 PM (lTGtQ)

This is another myth from the peaceniks. If Germany had been standing by mid 1945, they absolutely would have been nuked. No question.

Posted by: Oldcat at April 25, 2024 04:51 PM (eoQWY)

285 Carlson has always been a tad histrionic, not like Grin Breck but still.

he's womanish

Posted by: BlackOrchid at April 25, 2024 04:51 PM (s3qiR)

286 Maybe a takeaway from thisis to put NO Media celebrity on any sort of pedestal… they pretty much all crave the money and attention.

Posted by: tubal at April 25, 2024 04:51 PM (PCK5/)

287 Every time I say millennials are the dumbest generation in Human history out pops a Boomer saying something really stupid about the greatest generation. Its easy to say in hindsight. A lot harder for a trooper that just Won the ETO be told they were going to have to invade Japan.

Posted by: Fisht at April 25, 2024 04:51 PM (BHEHK)

288 Posted by: Catch Thirty-Thr33 at April 25, 2024 04:45 PM (mggQ3)

Says Macron. Says every American politician who is talking about sending troops to Ukraine.

Are you really not paying attention?
Posted by: BurtTC at April 25, 2024 04:50 PM (dGCAG)

But congratulations to you. You have taken EXACTLY the same position as Biden's DoD.

They laugh at the idea of taking Putin seriously.

Because it hasn't happened. Yet.

Posted by: BurtTC at April 25, 2024 04:51 PM (dGCAG)

289 I will again say this is a function of our deteriorating institutions. Between the response to Trump's win in 2016 and the response to Covid in 2019, a lot of things that were considered the realm of conspiracy theory has turned out to be true. This has unmoored a lot of people, not just Tucker. Turns out actually having to question EVERYTHING takes a toll.

Posted by: Milquetoast Mortgage-Paying Neighbor in Flyover Country at April 25, 2024 04:51 PM (5C4od)

290 Tuck getting the Leftists touchy feely lately?

Posted by: Skip at April 25, 2024 04:51 PM (fwDg9)

291 They would have used a nuke on us. Germany would have too. It was not evil to stop them.

Posted by: fd at April 25, 2024 04:52 PM (vFG9F)

292 Honestly, had we not had the bomb we would have just firebombed Japan until they surrendered. Don’t really see any difference between the two except the novelty of the A-bomb.
Posted by: Puddinhead at April 25, 2024 04:43 PM (BjRQH)

Firebombs and starvation. The Navy argued for their total blockade of Japan. Truman and/or his observers (and certainly MacArthur) saw the danger of that plan. It would certainly give the USSR plenty of time to consolidate its hold on northern China, possibly the entire Korean peninsula, and take China by means of Mao's army.

Posted by: mrp at April 25, 2024 04:52 PM (rj6Yv)

293 The Troll is "in effect"

Posted by: San Franpsycho at April 25, 2024 04:52 PM (RIvkX)

294 Tucker needs to learn how to make provisional argument.

I think we should think deep and hard about justifying the frying of millions of civilians, women and children. He should have said "There is a CASE that it's PURE EVIL", which would simply be acknowledging Rogan's comparison.

But, not everything is simple. People's impressions sometimes need to be taken into account, but what would have made Tucker look better is to say that he "GETS" the case that Rogan is comparing.

Not just to overcorrect and have to walk back what was too broad of a take.

Posted by: Axeman at April 25, 2024 04:52 PM (krQz2)

295 248 Germany if they hadn't lost first could have been nuked

Posted by: Skip at April 25, 2024 04:46 PM (fwDg9)

Germany, if their program had not been sabotaged by the Allies, could've had the bomb first.

Posted by: jim (in Kalifornia) at April 25, 2024 04:52 PM (ynpvh)

296 >>>So believing that bombing civilians makes you left wing? I really don't know what tribe I'm supposed to be a part of anymore.
Nobody has a problem pointing out all the war crimes of our enemies, but turn a blind eye when our own team does it. This kind of doublethink has been going on since Pearl Harbor, as far as Japan is concerned.

I believe it's very easy to take that position after the war had been ended. I think if you were an American living then, and had already faced four years of war and tens of thousands of casualties, you might have a different moral calculus.

Posted by: ace at April 25, 2024 04:52 PM (KRtlO)

297 269 >>> There was no need to drop those bombs, the war was in effect, over.

Japan didn't seem to think it was over.
Posted by: ace at April 25, 2024 04:49 PM (KRtlO)

They absolutely would have fought until there was nothing left of their country.

Posted by: tubal at April 25, 2024 04:52 PM (PCK5/)

298 In the American perspective, the instruments of national power are: Diplomacy, Information, Military, and Economic (DIME). According to Joint Publication 1, The ability of the US to advance its national interests is dependent on the effectiveness of the United States Government (USG) in employing the...

Posted by: andycanuck (vtyCZ) at April 25, 2024 04:53 PM (vtyCZ)

299 Publishers, editors, producers, directors - sometimes they're worth it.

Posted by: DaveA at April 25, 2024 04:53 PM (PMJuY)

300 Posted by: BlackOrchid at April 25, 2024 04:50 PM (s3qiR)

------

Interesting.

Because he didn't get the shot and was pretty adamant about it.

Posted by: Seems Legit at April 25, 2024 04:53 PM (JeYYB)

301 Continuing pounding Japan into the ground would have killed hundreds of thousands

Posted by: Skip at April 25, 2024 04:36 PM

Yep and that is an important point that most people forget. Without the bombs the war would have continued for 6 or more months with an invasion of the Japanese homelands and the continued bombing of the entire country.

At that point in the war each large bombing raid was killing/wounding thousands of people every single raid.

Posted by: Mister Scott (Formerly GWS) at April 25, 2024 04:53 PM (QNSds)

302 War is evil.

Don't start one if you don't want evil upon you because your enemy will fight back.

Japan literally hoped that America wouldn't fight back.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, fighting kaiju with Ishiro Honda at April 25, 2024 04:54 PM (GBKbO)

303 Says Macron. Says every American politician who is talking about sending troops to Ukraine.

Are you really not paying attention?
Posted by: BurtTC at April 25, 2024 04:50 PM (dGCAG)

I am, and it’s TALK until it happens. You can clutch your pearls listening to endless BULLSHIT all day long, but I will not buy it until I hear about a nuke going off.

This has been going on for the past four fucking years or so AND NOTHING HAS FUCKING HAPPENED.

Talk is cheap.

Posted by: Catch Thirty-Thr33 at April 25, 2024 04:54 PM (mggQ3)

304 233
...

I think it was simply that Mao decided to largely sit out the war in the north and let the Japs slaughter the KMT troops while the ChiComs built up for the inevitable civil war against Chiang, doing most of the work for him. If memory serves, the US had to basically threaten to cut off the ChiComs from US supplies in order to get them off their asses to attack the Japs.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at April 25, 2024 04:44 PM (n+4am)

That's what I read too.
Posted by: jim (in Kalifornia) at April 25, 2024 04:50 PM (ynpvh)

yes, it became a thing in Commie/Leftist history circles to say the exact reverse, that the Maoists did all the fighting.

Posted by: Oldcat at April 25, 2024 04:54 PM (eoQWY)

305 thanks for the explanation of DIME

Posted by: ace at April 25, 2024 04:54 PM (KRtlO)

306 My Dad was in the South Pacific. Both he and my Mom believed he would not return. Last stationed in Guam, he thought the Japanese would never surrender. He thought the bomb a gift, bc of all the lives it saved. TC is insane.

Posted by: EveR at April 25, 2024 04:54 PM (Z/h4+)

307 There's something about Carlson in his new environment that suggests he's surrounded by a bunch of halfwits and sycophants that just agree with him and never say "that's stupid boss."

Posted by: N at April 25, 2024 04:54 PM (RjBju)

308 264 My uncle went to boot camp with his best friend in 1939. His friend went to the Fourth Marines, Mell went to the Fifth. His friend died at Bataan and his remains were never found. Mel went on to receive the Navy Cross for actions on Iwo Jima. To his dying day he hated all things Japanese.

Posted by: Duke Lowell at April 25, 2024 04:49 PM (2UnvF)

My dad was in the hospital a decade or so ago, and had finally come out of his induced coma. A therapist came by, and my Dad said, "Are you Japanese? I occupied your country."
LOL, I couldn't believe my Dad told her that.

Posted by: jim (in Kalifornia) at April 25, 2024 04:54 PM (ynpvh)

309 282 Posted by: Tinfoil Dispenser at April 25, 2024 04:50 PM (NAuoi)

There were military installations in Hiroshima and Nagasaki you know what would have prevented their being bombed?

The undeclared fucking attack on Pearl Harbor not happening.

Posted by: sven at April 25, 2024 04:54 PM (X0I7i)

310
OK, so, we don't drop the bombs. When does the war end? If the answer isn't August 15, 1945, you got some explaining to do.

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at April 25, 2024 04:54 PM (ro5Z0)

311 did he apologize for storming over to Mar a Lago, freaking Trump out with his harridan-esque screeching, and pushing him to lock us down yet or nah?

nah, right? he was so very proud of doing that

Posted by: BlackOrchid at April 25, 2024 04:46 PM (s3qiR)

I must have missed this.

Posted by: Miley, okravangelist at April 25, 2024 04:54 PM (w6EFb)

312 "I've heard, and I don't know if it's actually true, that all Purple Hearts being awarded today still come from stock manufactured in WWII. "

I've read that also, I don't know why anyone would lie about it.

Posted by: gourmand du jour at April 25, 2024 04:54 PM (MeG8a)

313 I watched the whole interview. Don't agree with him about the bomb, don't agree with him on a number of things. But he doesn't bullshit you about where he stands and why. I'll take intellectual honesty over agreement all day long.

Posted by: Charles Nelson Reilly at April 25, 2024 04:54 PM (h8c/W)

314 I'm embarrassed for you . There was no need to drop those bombs, the war was in effect, over.
Posted by: SAHMmy at April 25, 2024 04:49 PM (vpXdH)

That has to be a sock. No one is that WW2 illiterate.

Posted by: polynikes at April 25, 2024 04:54 PM (MNhXM)

315 Interesting alt-history right here.

Why did it take 2 atomic blasts to convince Japan to surrender, then?
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, fighting kaiju with Ishiro Honda

And an attempted coup by much of the military to stop the Emperor's broadcast of surrender to the people, so the war could continue. Hell, they definitely weren't going to surrender after the first bomb, and only barely did so after the second.

Posted by: Military Moron at April 25, 2024 04:54 PM (JCZqz)

316 I’m looking forward to Tucker’s reprocessing of the VietNam War … you know …the war where a Viet Cong became a student demonstrator by taking away his AK-47 .. either before or after he is dead

Posted by: SMOD at April 25, 2024 04:55 PM (0OdlD)

317 Some trolls are forgetting about the Kamakazi attitude many had in Japan. More than just the pilots. It's win or die.

Posted by: Seems Legit at April 25, 2024 04:55 PM (JeYYB)

318 Because he didn't get the shot and was pretty adamant about it.

good for him!

the lockdowns were still the worst thing (other than seeding nursing homes with sick young people and locking THEM in with COVID infected people and withholding antibiotics but I digress)

I dont trust Tucker honestly. there's something off on his Very Tightly Held opinions

Posted by: BlackOrchid at April 25, 2024 04:55 PM (s3qiR)

319 Discussing alligator wrestling is much easier in a climate controlled studio than in the swamp up to your ass in alligators.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, I've Been Through the Desert On a Horse With No Shame at April 25, 2024 04:55 PM (FVME7)

320 315 And an attempted coup by much of the military to stop the Emperor's broadcast of surrender to the people, so the war could continue. Hell, they definitely weren't going to surrender after the first bomb, and only barely did so after the second.
Posted by: Military Moron at April 25, 2024 04:54 PM (JCZqz)

=======

The coup was because the military wanted to surrender even faster!

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, fighting kaiju with Ishiro Honda at April 25, 2024 04:55 PM (GBKbO)

321 Firebombing Dresden and Tokyo was bad. We shouldn't have done that. Nuking the Japs was fine.

Why? What's the difference?

One worked. The other didn't. End of story.

It's simple. In a war, winning is the goal. You're going to do bad things. When the bad things end the war in your own favor, they become good things on balance.

It's a life and death scenario. In those, the ends justify the means.

Posted by: Yudhishthira's Dice at April 25, 2024 04:55 PM (0FoWg)

322 How many other things does he know he was wrong about?
Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at April 25, 2024 04:50 PM (63Dwl)

If you listen to him, he'll tell you.

Posted by: BurtTC at April 25, 2024 04:55 PM (dGCAG)

323 271 263 I'm embarrassed for you . There was no need to drop those bombs, the war was in effect, over.
Posted by: SAHMmy at April 25, 2024 04:49 PM (vpXdH)

=======

Interesting alt-history right here.

Why did it take 2 atomic blasts to convince Japan to surrender, then?

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, fighting kaiju with Ishiro Honda at April 25, 2024 04:49 PM (GBKbO)

Because the military guys that wanted to kill Hirohito so he couldn't surrender were stopped. Otherwise it would've taken a few more.

Posted by: jim (in Kalifornia) at April 25, 2024 04:55 PM (ynpvh)

324 watched the whole interview. Don't agree with him about the bomb, don't agree with him on a number of things. But he doesn't bullshit you about where he stands and why. I'll take intellectual honesty over agreement all day long.
Posted by: Charles Nelson Reilly at April 25, 2024 04:54 PM (h8c/W)

You like his intellectual take on COVID?

Posted by: polynikes at April 25, 2024 04:55 PM (MNhXM)

325 Yup. Berlin would have caught a nuke had they hung on till August.
Posted by: Captain Obvious, Laird o' the Sea, Radioactive Knight at April 25, 2024 04:50 PM (Be/+i)

Truman received the news of the successful test of the plutonium bomb at the Potsdam Conference. Close call, Berlin.

Posted by: mrp at April 25, 2024 04:55 PM (rj6Yv)

326 Honestly, had we not had the bomb we would have just firebombed Japan until they surrendered. Don’t really see any difference between the two except the novelty of the A-bomb.
Posted by: Puddinhead at April 25, 2024 04:43 PM (BjRQH)
---
It's not like Dresden had a "smart fire bomb" that would just take out the soldiers. And no, you can't celebrate Dresden, but you can understand it as a casualty of war.

The Germans and the Japanese put us in a "State of War", and they suffered reprisals for their overreach.

We would have lost soooo many men going down the shooting gallery of Tokyo Bay. I had a college instructor who was on one of the those ships scheduled to go through the killzone the Japanese had made Tokyo Bay

He was socially, and mostly politically liberal, but he *loved* the bomb.

Posted by: Axeman at April 25, 2024 04:56 PM (krQz2)

327 At that point in the war each large bombing raid was killing/wounding thousands of people every single raid.
Posted by: Mister Scott (Formerly GWS) at April 25, 2024 04:53 PM (QNSds)

Single firebombing raids of Tokyo killed more than either A Bomb. The Nagasaki one was kinda a fizzle in terms of death count, the primary target was clouded over and Nagasaki was a smaller place.

Posted by: Oldcat at April 25, 2024 04:56 PM (eoQWY)

328 307 There's something about Carlson in his new environment that suggests he's surrounded by a bunch of halfwits and sycophants that just agree with him and never say "that's stupid boss."

I think he spends too much time on X

Posted by: BlackOrchid at April 25, 2024 04:56 PM (s3qiR)

329 I think the military was planning the war into 1947 if I remember correctly. It would have been a terrible bloodbath.

Posted by: tubal at April 25, 2024 04:56 PM (PCK5/)

330 Nearly always overlooked is that Japan, even at the time it surrendered, remained in control of most of southeast Asia, as well as a large part of China, and all of Korea. Those civilian populations would have experienced more suffering and death the longer the war persisted, as well as Japan's own military and civilian casualties, and --- most important from America's perspective --- Allied military casualties, especially Americans from an invasion of Japan that was expected to result in hundreds of thousands of American dead.

Posted by: My Ridiculously Circuitous Plan at April 25, 2024 04:56 PM (qcPWJ)

331 Little known fact … there 13 nuclear weapons in some level of assembly by the end of the war

Posted by: SMOD at April 25, 2024 04:56 PM (0OdlD)

332 I'm embarrassed for you . There was no need to drop those bombs, the war was in effect, over.
Posted by: SAHMmy at April 25, 2024 04:49 PM (vpXdH)

That has to be a sock. No one is that WW2 illiterate.
Posted by: polynikes

Vox Populi would agree with our troll.

Posted by: Bulgaroctonus at April 25, 2024 04:56 PM (9yWhg)

333 The bomb doesn’t have morals any more than a hammer does. It was a means to an end.

If you think the end was the right one one you use it.

Posted by: Pete Bog at April 25, 2024 04:56 PM (AexFl)

334 War is evil.

Don't start one if you don't want evil upon you because your enemy will fight back.

Japan literally hoped that America wouldn't fight back.
Posted by: The

That's true, but that does not mean you have to be evil.

Would you suggest we should had a rape of Tokyo the way the Japanese raped nanking?

Posted by: N at April 25, 2024 04:56 PM (RjBju)

335 @233 I think it was simply that Mao decided to largely sit out the war in the north

--------

Mao spent most of the war attacking Nationalist troops, and largely ignoring the IJA. IIRC, eventually Chiang got sick of Mao's double-dealing, and revoked the cease-fire with the Communists. But the war meant he couldn't take any serious action.

The Soviets occupied Manchuria right before the end of the war, handed it over to Mao, and used the fact that it was neighboring the USSR to feed him supplies.

There's more to it, and it's a complicated subject. But that's the major stuff.

Posted by: junior at April 25, 2024 04:57 PM (JJ2jk)

336 >>> But he doesn't bullshit you about where he stands and why.

I think he does. After he caught flack for questioning Israel's right to defend itself on October 8th or 9th, he then claimed all he meant to do was be one guy standing up for America's self-interest.

Then over the proceeding months he interviewed one guy after another calling Israel evil. He just had on a Palestinian Christian to complain that Christians are badly treated in Israel. Tucker Carlson "forgot" to mention the areas he was talking about where governed by the Palestinians.

So he attempted to tell Christians that evil Jews were tricking him.

But sure, he's very "upfront" about what he believes.

Posted by: ace at April 25, 2024 04:57 PM (KRtlO)

337
Funny thing with nukes, 80 years after we glassed two Japanese cities, one could argue that they are better allies for the US now than the Limeys who've supposed to have been allies for nearly 200 years.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at April 25, 2024 04:57 PM (n+4am)

338 There were military installations in Hiroshima and Nagasaki you know what would have prevented their being bombed?

The undeclared fucking attack on Pearl Harbor not happening.
Posted by: sven

Nuking two civilian cities was a war crime, and disproportionate use of force compared to Pearl Harbor...just like Israel's genocide in Gaza and Palestine!!!!

Posted by: Radical Lefty Palestinian Apologists at April 25, 2024 04:57 PM (JCZqz)

339 Germany, if their program had not been sabotaged by the Allies, could've had the bomb first.

Posted by: jim (in Kalifornia)

That, plus so many of their scientists fled to the west due to the nazis.

Posted by: Thomas Paine at April 25, 2024 04:57 PM (lTGtQ)

340 324 Posted by: polynikes at April 25, 2024 04:55 PM (MNhXM)

Call in and ask me how I can destroy 7+ trillion dollars of global income in two quarters!

//CUOMO19 Hysterics

Posted by: sven at April 25, 2024 04:57 PM (X0I7i)

341
I think the military was planning the war into 1947 if I remember correctly.

_________

"Golden Gate in '48"

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at April 25, 2024 04:57 PM (ro5Z0)

342 the lockdowns were still the worst thing (other than seeding nursing homes with sick young people and locking THEM in with COVID infected people and withholding antibiotics but I digress)

I dont trust Tucker honestly. there's something off on his Very Tightly Held opinions
Posted by: BlackOrchid at April 25, 2024 04:55 PM (s3qiR)

------

I 100% agree with you, BlackOrchid. I not only think it was the worst thing, as Tucker would say, I think it was evil. Not hyperbole.

Posted by: Seems Legit at April 25, 2024 04:57 PM (JeYYB)

343 But congratulations to you. You have taken EXACTLY the same position as Biden's DoD.

They laugh at the idea of taking Putin seriously.

Because it hasn't happened. Yet.
Posted by: BurtTC at April 25, 2024 04:51 PM (dGCAG)

I take the position of Catch Thirty-Thr33, thanks, TALK IS CHEAP. When a nuke goes off, call me. Until that moment, this is all BULLSHIT you are worked up over, and you’re mad that I’m not going Chicken Little right with you.

AND here’s this: one country has used nukes. NO ONE wants to be #2.

Posted by: Catch Thirty-Thr33 at April 25, 2024 04:57 PM (mggQ3)

344 ...AND NOTHING HAS FUCKING HAPPENED.

Talk is cheap.
Posted by: Catch Thirty-Thr33 at April 25, 2024 04:54 PM (mggQ3)

Apparently you haven't heard of the Ukraine war.

Congratulations, you fit right in with Biden's DoD.

Posted by: BurtTC at April 25, 2024 04:57 PM (dGCAG)

345 Did the flight of Jewish physicists like Einstein do much to hinder their atomic-bomb research?

Posted by: Bulgaroctonus at April 25, 2024 04:58 PM (9yWhg)

346 Remember when Jon Stewart told Tucker Carlson that Tucker had turned Crossfire from a dignified cross-party debate show into a Springer screaming match?
Remember when everyone got bent out of shape and said Jon Stewart was "clown nose on, clown nose off" whenever Stewart tried to avoid responsibility for his advocacy?
And now Tucker Carlson proclaims he is "just asking questions."
Who's the bigger clown?
No, no - not Stewart or Carlson.
Carlson or the people who were taken in by him and thought he was a dignified journalist and commentator and not a populist entertainer.
"Just asking questions and screaming at guests" on, clown nose off.

Posted by: Sam at April 25, 2024 04:58 PM (7jMef)

347 Bill Whittle's presentation on the pros and cons of nuking Japan was convincing to me.

Posted by: Miley, okravangelist at April 25, 2024 04:58 PM (w6EFb)

348 But sure, he's very "upfront" about what he believes.

he's an op! I just feel it in my bones.

I don't know what it all means, but he is a part of the Narrative, maybe some kind of counter narrative...

Posted by: BlackOrchid at April 25, 2024 04:58 PM (s3qiR)

349 Interesting alt-history right here.

Why did it take 2 atomic blasts to convince Japan to surrender, then?

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, fighting kaiju with Ishiro Honda at April 25, 2024 04:49 PM (GBKbO)

Because the military guys that wanted to kill Hirohito so he couldn't surrender were stopped. Otherwise it would've taken a few more.
Posted by: jim (in Kalifornia) at April 25, 2024 04:55 PM (ynpvh)

They thought it might be a one-shot. The second conviced them it wasn't. If that didn't work we were gonna be making dozens of them like a factory.

Posted by: Oldcat at April 25, 2024 04:58 PM (eoQWY)

350 317 Some trolls are forgetting about the Kamakazi attitude many had in Japan. More than just the pilots. It's win or die.
Posted by: Seems Legit at April 25, 2024 04:55 PM (JeYYB)

For them their Emperor was a God. As long as he said “ fight” they would have done so.

Posted by: tubal at April 25, 2024 04:58 PM (PCK5/)

351 Personally I couldn't give a Tinker's damn about Carlson. I'd be more interested in who is selected #166 in the NFL draft than anything he has to say. He left Fox with probably a half dozen stories under development that had been researched well. They made him sound good. But over time the research has dwindled to whatever he has now, and suddenly, the bloom is off the rose.
Meh.

Posted by: Diogenes at April 25, 2024 04:58 PM (W/lyH)

352 287 Every time I say millennials are the dumbest generation in Human history out pops a Boomer saying something really stupid about the greatest generation. Its easy to say in hindsight. A lot harder for a trooper that just Won the ETO be told they were going to have to invade Japan.

Posted by: Fisht at April 25, 2024 04:51 PM (BHEHK)

Um...he's NOT a Boomer. I'm older than him and I'm not a Boomer.

Posted by: jim (in Kalifornia) at April 25, 2024 04:58 PM (ynpvh)

353 Everything I ever read on Germany's nuclear project is yes the allies did work to wreck it but Germany was way behind and no way had the money to get that far, they couldn't keep their armies supplied

Posted by: Skip at April 25, 2024 04:58 PM (fwDg9)

354 337
Funny thing with nukes, 80 years after we glassed two Japanese cities, one could argue that they are better allies for the US now than the Limeys who've supposed to have been allies for nearly 200 years.
Posted by: IllTemperedCur at April 25, 2024 04:57 PM (n+4am)

------

Agree. And if you see those cities now, they are beautiful, much better than most American cities.

Posted by: Seems Legit at April 25, 2024 04:58 PM (JeYYB)

355 I have family that fought in both the European Theater and Pacific Theater. The ones who fought in Europe largely went on with their lives after the war. The ones in the Pacific never forgave the Japanese until their dying day. A lot of contemporary arguments speciously leave out how brutal the Japanese had been. How you execute the battle of often becomes a part of your own fate.

Posted by: Marcus T at April 25, 2024 04:59 PM (5x1xh)

356 337 Posted by: IllTemperedCur at April 25, 2024 04:57 PM (n+4am)

I used to believe that, of course I am now of the mind that the Japanese and Germans being subjected to our early adopter progressives and having their national pride outlawed is why we face this bullshit now.

Posted by: sven at April 25, 2024 04:59 PM (X0I7i)

357 I take the position of Catch Thirty-Thr33, thanks, TALK IS CHEAP. When a nuke goes off, call me. Until that moment, this is all BULLSHIT you are worked up over, and you’re mad that I’m not going Chicken Little right with you.

AND here’s this: one country has used nukes. NO ONE wants to be #2.
Posted by: Catch Thirty-Thr33 at April 25, 2024 04:57 PM (mggQ3)

Settle down, Francis.

The adults are talking.

Posted by: BurtTC at April 25, 2024 04:59 PM (dGCAG)

358 That's true, but that does not mean you have to be evil.

Would you suggest we should had a rape of Tokyo the way the Japanese raped nanking?
Posted by: N at April 25, 2024 04:56 PM (RjBju

What does that gibberish even mean?

Posted by: polynikes at April 25, 2024 04:59 PM (MNhXM)

359 If Israel secretly has tons of dirt on our regime, then they’re doing a terrible job of leveraging it

Posted by: Elric Blade at April 25, 2024 04:59 PM (CnN/c)

360 Sam is correct! yes Sam

he's an entertainer. not particularly entertaining with the womanly screeching and goofy nervous laughing - well I think those are tells

Posted by: BlackOrchid at April 25, 2024 04:59 PM (s3qiR)

361 AGA War Room
@MAGAIncWarRoom

Constitutional Law Attorney
@CherkaskyKatie
: "The case is very weak. It's obvious why Alvin Bragg originally didn't think this case should be the first one to go...it's not looking good. It's not shaping up to really be a clear example of any criminal conduct."

https://tinyurl.com/45yx82tr

Posted by: redridinghood at April 25, 2024 04:59 PM (NpAcC)

362 if you find yourself arguing that it's a good thing to drop nuclear weapons on people, then you are evil."

How about "It was the least worst thing?"
Posted by: fd

There's a Christian concept that any sin is the turning away from God, and is therefore, evil.
Obviously there are levels of evil.
Posted by: BurtTC

Present Tucker with "the trolley problem."

I guess his solution would be to go back in time and prevent the invention of the trolley? Not by killing the inventor, of course.

Posted by: mikeski at April 25, 2024 05:00 PM (DgGvY)

363 Is Bill Whittle still around? Haven't seen anything from him in ages.

Posted by: Mark1971 at April 25, 2024 05:00 PM (xPl2J)

364 So Carlson was a covid Karen? I never knew that or missed it…. But his views did change over time. I’d swear I saw his show lots of times before he left Fox where he really slammed all the Covid mania and gave a platform to Scott Atlas and Robert Malone…. Maybe he was an early Karen then thought better of it?

Posted by: LinusVanPelt at April 25, 2024 05:00 PM (xT8gx)

365 I always figured Okinawa sealed the deal. 100k lives lost in bitter fighting. The Japanese might have been defeated, but they were going to make us fight for every blade of grass.

A tough call and far easier to doubt it in the present day. A tired nation, USSR looming, new president, I probably would have made that call as well.

Posted by: chicagovota at April 25, 2024 05:00 PM (hH3ux)

366 334
That's true, but that does not mean you have to be evil.

Would you suggest we should had a rape of Tokyo the way the Japanese raped nanking?
Posted by: N at April 25, 2024 04:56 PM (RjBju)

========

No, I wouldn't. I'd recommend mass death until the enemy decides to stop fighting a war it started because it's imperialistic ambitions were far greater than its capabilities which led it to attack a non-combatant nation that vastly overpowered it in industrial might in the hopes that it would be able to get more oil afterwards.

Seriously. In a world where weapons manufacture is done in civilian populations, once the war reaches those limits, civilians are going to die. A lot of them. Since the governments are supposedly instituted for the people's protection, it's up to the governments to decide when they can't go any further and try to end things. Since the Japanese government wasn't trying to end things, well, civilians around military targets are fair game.

War sucks. They shouldn't be fought. But when they are fought, they should be fought to win.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, fighting kaiju with Ishiro Honda at April 25, 2024 05:00 PM (GBKbO)

367 305 thanks for the explanation of DIME

Posted by: ace at April 25, 2024 04:54 PM (KRtlO)

I thought this was well-known…at least here!

Posted by: Catch Thirty-Thr33 at April 25, 2024 05:00 PM (mggQ3)

368 I chalk Tucker's recent weirdness up to the fact that he was basically a puppet of the increasingly leftwing Fox News management for the last number of years, and there are certainly things that are not allowed to be said on-air at Fox. Now being free from that, he feels like he can say what the fuck ever has been ruminating in his head all this time. It feels like just a brain dump rather than a careful examination of one's own beliefs and then saying some things out loud, leaving some unsaid.

I support Israel's right to self-defense purely on the Fuck Around and Find Out principle, and on the grounds that Hamas is a collection of prehistoric savages that the world wouldn't miss if they were all vaporized.

However, it's hard to miss the knee-jerk reaction of nearly everyone on the right to accuse anyone who raises even a slight criticism of Israel of antisemitism, which is bug-fuck stupid, lazy, and annoying. It's also hard not to notice that for being a nation with the population of Georgia (the state), that they have a very outsized influence on our foreign policy and even our internal politics. I think that's something worth exploring.

Posted by: ballistic at April 25, 2024 05:00 PM (oqH4h)

369 Carlson is an Xer

Posted by: BlackOrchid at April 25, 2024 05:00 PM (s3qiR)

370 Did the flight of Jewish physicists like Einstein do much to hinder their atomic-bomb research?
Posted by: Bulgaroctonus at April 25, 2024 04:58 PM (9yWhg)

They had some good people left. I heard they went down a blind alley in some technical respects, and of course the RAF bombing their facilities didn't help.

Posted by: Oldcat at April 25, 2024 05:00 PM (eoQWY)

371 four years of war and tens of thousands of casualties,

---

300-400k American casualties in the Pacific theater. 100k+ KIA.

Posted by: Yudhishthira's Dice at April 25, 2024 05:01 PM (0FoWg)

372 304 233
...
I think it was simply that Mao decided to largely sit out the war in the north and let the Japs slaughter the KMT troops while the ChiComs built up for the inevitable civil war against Chiang, doing most of the work for him. If memory serves, the US had to basically threaten to cut off the ChiComs from US supplies in order to get them off their asses to attack the Japs.
Posted by: IllTemperedCur at April 25, 2024 04:44 PM (n+4am)

That's what I read too.
Posted by: jim (in Kalifornia) at April 25, 2024 04:50 PM (ynpvh)

yes, it became a thing in Commie/Leftist history circles to say the exact reverse, that the Maoists did all the fighting.
Posted by: Oldcat at April 25, 2024 04:54 PM (eoQWY)

In truth Mao sent those troops involved during those early years to the Chinese front lines in Korea to kill them off. No need to have anyone around to debunk the lies his kingdom was built on.

Posted by: jim (in Kalifornia) at April 25, 2024 05:01 PM (ynpvh)

373 345 of the Germans, I mean

Posted by: Bulgaroctonus at April 25, 2024 05:01 PM (9yWhg)

374 Did the flight of Jewish physicists like Einstein do much to hinder their atomic-bomb research?

Posted by: Bulgaroctonus at April 25, 2024 04:58 PM

Yep.

Posted by: Mister Scott (Formerly GWS) at April 25, 2024 05:01 PM (QNSds)

375 Like Woody Allen, except real:

@DissocialSpace 22m
BREAKING NOW - In a bold move, the UN has removed the mask from the Climate Change hoax by inviting the Taliban to a series of talks in order to CON-vince the world to send them lots and lots of money to save them from the weather.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at April 25, 2024 05:01 PM (IG4Id)

376 As a side note more died in the fire-bombing of Tokyo, 90,000+, on March 9th 1945 than at Hiroshima.

Posted by: Chairborne!...Desk From Above! at April 25, 2024 05:02 PM (vHfLU)

377 "I've heard, and I don't know if it's actually true, that all Purple Hearts being awarded today still come from stock manufactured in WWII. "

I've read that also, I don't know why anyone would lie about it.
Posted by: gourmand du jour at April 25, 2024 04:54 PM (MeG8a)

IIRC, there was an order placed for 600,000 Purple Hearts decoration sets as part of the prep for the invasion of Japan.

Posted by: mrp at April 25, 2024 05:02 PM (rj6Yv)

378
Settle down, Francis.

The adults are talking.
Posted by: BurtTC at April 25, 2024 04:59 PM (dGCAG)

Which you are clearly not, given how you act as if history was invented when you were born.

Posted by: Catch Thirty-Thr33 at April 25, 2024 05:02 PM (mggQ3)

379 364 So Carlson was a covid Karen? I never knew that or missed it…. But his views did change over time. I’d swear I saw his show lots of times before he left Fox where he really slammed all the Covid mania and gave a platform to Scott Atlas and Robert Malone…. Maybe he was an early Karen then thought better of it?

ok but to this day he has not apologized for pushing PDJT to lock us down. but I saw him with my own eyes gleefully stating he convinced the President to do the lockdown.

I dont have video so you have to trust me I guess. I'll never ever forget it. that lockdown broke my heart; it took my country away from me.

it was the most wrong thing. the most wrong.

Posted by: BlackOrchid at April 25, 2024 05:02 PM (s3qiR)

380 312 "I've heard, and I don't know if it's actually true, that all Purple Hearts being awarded today still come from stock manufactured in WWII. "

I've read that also, I don't know why anyone would lie about it.

Posted by: gourmand du jour at April 25, 2024 04:54 PM (MeG8a)

So many were produced due to the expected casualties for the Japanese invasion.

Posted by: jim (in Kalifornia) at April 25, 2024 05:02 PM (ynpvh)

381 Remember when Jon Stewart told Tucker Carlson that Tucker had turned Crossfire from a dignified cross-party debate show into a Springer screaming match?
Remember when everyone got bent out of shape and said Jon Stewart was "clown nose on, clown nose off" whenever Stewart tried to avoid responsibility for his advocacy?
And now Tucker Carlson proclaims he is "just asking questions."
Who's the bigger clown?

Posted by: Sam at April 25, 2024 04:58 PM (7jMef)
---
That's really not the same thing at all.

And you have a weird way of making that exchange about specifically Tucker. Stewart was talking about Crossfire as a brand, not just what Tucker had turned it into.

Posted by: Axeman at April 25, 2024 05:02 PM (krQz2)

382
Read up on what the invasion of Kyushu would have entailed. It'll curl your hair.

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at April 25, 2024 05:02 PM (ro5Z0)

383 @241 ace no not saying that at all. It was tongue in cheak heavy sarcasm. And a little stupidity. Much love

Posted by: Plainoldtoast at April 25, 2024 05:02 PM (ytSiK)

384 382
Read up on what the invasion of Kyushu would have entailed. It'll curl your hair.
Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at April 25, 2024 05:02 PM (ro5Z0)

=======

The Japanese laying down all arms and surrendering because they were essentially defeated?

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, fighting kaiju with Ishiro Honda at April 25, 2024 05:03 PM (GBKbO)

385 The battle of Okinawa also factored heavily into the equation. The casualties were higher there than at Normandy and the Kamikazes were taking their toll on the Navy. The US public was growing war weary. I don't think an invasion of Japan was ever a possibility.

Posted by: Duke Lowell at April 25, 2024 05:03 PM (2UnvF)

386 Ace has become unreadable...

Just kidding about that, but I would point out to him that there are such things as "control files" and look at the all the idiotic voters in Congress for whatever bloated Deep State program. I certainly think that these guys in the Deep State and the Breakaway Civilization types have the goods on a lot of Congressional Critters...

Posted by: Mister Ghost at April 25, 2024 05:03 PM (TGPs7)

387 376 Posted by: Chairborne!...Desk From Above! at April 25, 2024 05:02 PM (vHfLU)

Correct and Dresden was more effectively destroyed than a nuke would have accomplished....

of course Dresden, Hiroshima, and Nagasaki are all three nicer than Detroit and Baltimore two vital cities for the allied war effort.

Democrats are deadlier than nukes.

Posted by: sven at April 25, 2024 05:03 PM (X0I7i)

388 I always find it amusing when atomic bombs, napalm, white phosphorus bombs, poison gas and cluster munitions are considered bad but TNT is okay. They are all 'chemical' weapons (atomics being on the fringe). What's the difference to dying from an incendiary bomb to getting blown to pieces by a 500lb bomb? A cannon shell? Same for poison gas. Yes, you may not die immediately but that also applies to the person holding his guts in his hands after being disemboweled by a nearby explosion or someone's bayonet. I could go on but enough for now. Rant over.

Posted by: Ciampino - and it's always the children at April 25, 2024 05:03 PM (qfLjt)

389
There's more to it, and it's a complicated subject. But that's the major stuff.
Posted by: junior at April 25, 2024 04:57 PM (JJ2jk)

Oh, I know. My knowledge of internal Chinese WWII politics comes down to "Mao didn't raise a finger against the Japs". And getting a truthful story of those years out of the ChiComs is pretty much impossible.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at April 25, 2024 05:04 PM (n+4am)

390 I guess the long knives are out for Tucker on the right.

The circular firing squad on the right is always loaded and ready.

Posted by: Axeman at April 25, 2024 05:04 PM (krQz2)

391

If Germany had had a rational leader, they would have had nukes and used them long before we did.

Replace Hitler and the NAZIs with Kaiser Wilhelm I and Otto Von Bismark in 1939 and yeah...I think they win.

But their winning would have been completely different from Hitler's idea of winning of course.

Posted by: 18-1 at April 25, 2024 05:04 PM (ibTVg)

392 What does that gibberish even mean?

Do you need me to use emojii or ebonics?

Shortbus threads are after hours.

Do better man.

Posted by: N at April 25, 2024 05:04 PM (RjBju)

393 305 thanks for the explanation of DIME
--------
I didn't know it either; I was thinking of another but military-only U.S. doctrine -- probably the Nuclear Triad was in my mind.

Posted by: andycanuck (vtyCZ) at April 25, 2024 05:04 PM (vtyCZ)

394 I dont have video so you have to trust me I guess. I'll never ever forget it. that lockdown broke my heart; it took my country away from me.

it was the most wrong thing. the most wrong.
Posted by: BlackOrchid at April 25, 2024 05:02 PM (s3qiR)

I believe you. Didn’t mean to imply otherwise. I absolutely agree with you regarding the lockdowns. I’ll never forget that and I’ll never trust the government again. The worst government action in this country of my lifetime

Posted by: LinusVanPelt at April 25, 2024 05:05 PM (xT8gx)

395 Apparently you haven't heard of the Ukraine war.

Congratulations, you fit right in with Biden's DoD.
Posted by: BurtTC at April 25, 2024 04:57 PM (dGCAG)

I didn’t realize nukes were used in the Ukraine war.

Go dig a bomb shelter, Chicken Little. Since you are so cock-sure nuclear war is inevitable. JFC, it’s like talking to a Leftist in the 1980s.

Posted by: Catch Thirty-Thr33 at April 25, 2024 05:05 PM (mggQ3)

396 >> If he at least had the courage and integrity to state his suspicions out loud, I'd be less critical

No - he would get the Kanye treatment and be cancelled in a microsecond.

Posted by: T at April 25, 2024 05:05 PM (OC8EF)

397 By the time of Iwo Jima, Americans were weary of all the casualties. Lots of gold star families. And there was no sign of these slowing down, just the opposite. The astonishing thing is that VP Truman knew nothing about the Manhattan project. That didn't come until he was President.

Posted by: gourmand du jour at April 25, 2024 05:05 PM (MeG8a)

398 392 Do better man.
Posted by: N at April 25, 2024 05:04 PM (RjBju)

======

Wars where civilians don't die are fantasy.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, fighting kaiju with Ishiro Honda at April 25, 2024 05:05 PM (GBKbO)

399 Like Woody Allen, except real:

@DissocialSpace 22m
BREAKING NOW - In a bold move, the UN has removed the mask from the Climate Change hoax by inviting the Taliban to a series of talks in order to CON-vince the world to send them lots and lots of money to save them from the weather.
Posted by: weft cut-loop at April 25, 2024 05:01 PM (IG4Id)
---
Sadly, far too many nations in the UN (including the US) will probably cave in and give the Taliban money--on the condition that it's laundered through various NGOs and "charities" of course. Grifters gotta grift.

Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at April 25, 2024 05:05 PM (7fElN)

400
Democrats are deadlier than nukes.

Posted by: sven at April 25, 2024 05:03 PM (X0I7i)

////////////////////////////////////////////

Spot on!

Posted by: Chairborne!...Desk From Above! at April 25, 2024 05:05 PM (vHfLU)

401 I've heard it said they were ready to surrender but NOT unconditionally until the bombs dropped.

Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at April 25, 2024 05:05 PM (63Dwl)

402 The decisive moral argument surrounding the atomic bombings of Japan are this: the Japanese were killing 100,000 innocent Asians in China, Indonesia, Vietnam, Burma, etc., in mid-to-late 1945. Any other manner of ending the war would have prolonged it and resulted in far more innocent Asians dying than Japanese, "innocent" or not. There is no other feasible way to end the war in August 1945 without the shock effect of atomic weapons. Any other approach - blockade, invasion, negotiations - would have taken far more time (certainly greater than 2 weeks, which is the time required for the number of other Asian deaths to equal the deaths at Hiroshima and Nagasaki) and resulted in far more deaths, including Japanese.

The dirty little secret of Carlson and all those who decry the atomic bombings as immoral irrespective of any other consideration, is that they would have given the Japanese militarists what they wanted - to remain in power at any cost. With that, the US would have faced the horror of fighting another even worse war with an even more twisted and insane Japanese leadership 20 years later, against a by-then nuclear armed Japan.

Posted by: Sloucho at April 25, 2024 05:06 PM (Dv8DR)

403 350 317 Some trolls are forgetting about the Kamakazi attitude many had in Japan. More than just the pilots. It's win or die.
Posted by: Seems Legit at April 25, 2024 04:55 PM (JeYYB)

For them their Emperor was a God. As long as he said “ fight” they would have done so.

Posted by: tubal at April 25, 2024 04:58 PM (PCK5/)

Which island (Okinawa?) were there only a handful of civillians lefte alive? They were willing to fight to the death.

Posted by: jim (in Kalifornia) at April 25, 2024 05:06 PM (ynpvh)

404 I always find it amusing when atomic bombs, napalm, white phosphorus bombs, poison gas and cluster munitions are considered bad but TNT is okay. They are all 'chemical' weapons (atomics being on the fringe). What's the difference to dying from an incendiary bomb to getting blown to pieces by a 500lb bomb? A cannon shell?

Posted by: Ciampino - and it's always the children at April 25, 2024 05:03 PM (qfLjt)
---
And of course we have the beneficial individually wrapped explosive shrapnel ball.

Because the bank is so little.

How about a Claymore? Those only shoot ball bearings one way. So they're half as disastrous as a full explosion.

Posted by: Axeman at April 25, 2024 05:06 PM (krQz2)

405 Or cheek

Posted by: Plainoldtoast at April 25, 2024 05:06 PM (ytSiK)

406 Democrats are deadlier than nukes.

Posted by: sven

I mean, some of the big blue cities kind of look like they were hit by a nuke these days.

Posted by: Biergood at April 25, 2024 05:06 PM (PwgSL)

407 okay I'm over it lol. whatever Tucker is an entertainer and he can be interesting

I have a personal grudge over the lockdown thing and I wish he would apologize for how he behaved with that. I think people deserve that, at the very least. it was a big, huge mistake. he wasn't alone but he really had PDJT's ear.

personally something about him seems off to me, like I said I had to watch it every night on fox b/c that was treadmill time so I saw him a bunch. he just felt ... always something off for me.

but that's just me. I'm sure he's fine.

Posted by: BlackOrchid at April 25, 2024 05:07 PM (s3qiR)

408 Times were simpler and not so mean when we were all firing grapeshot at each other.

Posted by: Axeman at April 25, 2024 05:07 PM (krQz2)

409 Yes, force marching, starving, decapitating for sport, torturing, raping, and murdering men, women and children is so much morally superior than dropping a nuclear bomb to get them to stop.

Honestly, who are you people. Tucker, is that you?

Posted by: Marcus T at April 25, 2024 05:07 PM (5x1xh)

410 355 I have family that fought in both the European Theater and Pacific Theater. The ones who fought in Europe largely went on with their lives after the war. The ones in the Pacific never forgave the Japanese until their dying day. A lot of contemporary arguments speciously leave out how brutal the Japanese had been. How you execute the battle of often becomes a part of your own fate.

Posted by: Marcus T at April 25, 2024 04:59 PM (5x1xh)

My dad and his buddy made a pact that if it looked like the Japs were going to capture them, they'd shoot each other at the same time.

Posted by: jim (in Kalifornia) at April 25, 2024 05:07 PM (ynpvh)

411 I certainly think that these guys in the Deep State and the Breakaway Civilization types have the goods on a lot of Congressional Critters...
Posted by: Mister Ghost at April 25, 2024 05:03 PM (TGPs7)
----
I mean the international foreign policy/intelligence blob just turned Mike Johnson into a quivering blob in about two hours flat.

He goes into the SCIF one way, comes out 180 degrees the other.

What's being shown to them is one of two things:
1) We are a LOT closer to global war than anyone is letting on
or
2) Everyone is being blackmailed to hell and back.

Posted by: ballistic at April 25, 2024 05:07 PM (oqH4h)

412 It feels like just a brain dump rather than a careful examination of one's own beliefs and then saying some things out loud, leaving some unsaid.

I support Israel's right to self-defense purely on the Fuck Around and Find Out principle, and on the grounds that Hamas is a collection of prehistoric savages that the world wouldn't miss if they were all vaporized.

However, it's hard to miss the knee-jerk reaction of nearly everyone on the right to accuse anyone who raises even a slight criticism of Israel of antisemitism, which is bug-fuck stupid, lazy, and annoying. It's also hard not to notice that for being a nation with the population of Georgia (the state), that they have a very outsized influence on our foreign policy and even our internal politics. I think that's something worth exploring.
Posted by: ballistic at April 25, 2024 05:00 PM (oqH4h)

--------

I'm interested in your newsletter.

Kidding aside, well said.

I'm pro-Israel, I like the principles of sound economics better. I'd like to seem them "handle" the Hamas problem without our interference. That includes our stupid "humanitarian aid."

Posted by: Seems Legit at April 25, 2024 05:07 PM (JeYYB)

413 Seriously. In a world where weapons manufacture is done in civilian populations, once the war reaches those limits, civilians are going to die. A lot of them.

War sucks. They shouldn't be fought. But when they are fought, they should be fought to win.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, fighting kaiju with Ishiro Honda at April 25, 2024 05:00 PM (GBKbO)

Think of a reverse situation where Japan can hit the US at will with bombs. All those cute Rosie the Riveter gals in the pictures helping build military aircraft are valid military targets in a total war scenario.

That's why even in Ukraine for a while there were understood rules in place. Ever wonder why there was no fighting in Russia, in the north border and the area north of Kharkov? Because there was an understood agreement that neither side would do serious operations there. And for 2 years outside of some shelling and some terrorist actions by Ukraine, there still hasn't been. For quite a while Russia avoided hitting areas where NATO was doing intelligence and planning inside Ukraine. In the last few months that agreement has been dropped, and the French took some licks that explain why they are yapping about Troops.

Posted by: Oldcat at April 25, 2024 05:07 PM (eoQWY)

414 How about "It was the least worst thing?"
Posted by: fd

That's a bingo!

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, I've Been Through the Desert On a Horse With No Shame at April 25, 2024 05:08 PM (FVME7)

415 I was recently informed by staunch conservative leader, Senator McConnell, that Tucker Carlson is enemy #1 because he doesn't want to send all our money to Ukraine.

I guess we have our orders.

Posted by: DaisyB at April 25, 2024 05:08 PM (AbL8c)

416 358 That's true, but that does not mean you have to be evil.

Would you suggest we should had a rape of Tokyo the way the Japanese raped nanking?
Posted by: N at April 25, 2024 04:56 PM (RjBju

What does that gibberish even mean?

Posted by: polynikes at April 25, 2024 04:59 PM (MNhXM)

Dunno. War is brutal. When one side engages in brutality of the populace under the aegis of their regime, it is especially evil. Nuking rape.

Posted by: jim (in Kalifornia) at April 25, 2024 05:08 PM (ynpvh)

417 How about a Claymore? Those only shoot ball bearings one way. So they're half as disastrous as a full explosion.

I remember a movie scene were the hero didn't have a gun but did have a Claymore and one of those police ballistic shields so he strapped it on the shield and ran right at the bad guy.

Hijinks ensued...

Maybe a Statham movie?

Posted by: 18-1 at April 25, 2024 05:08 PM (ibTVg)

418 Times were simpler and not so mean when we were all firing grapeshot at each other.
Posted by: Axeman at April 25, 2024 05:07 PM (krQz2)

Slicing the abdomen open of a dude at swords reach isn't any nicer of more fun.

Posted by: Oldcat at April 25, 2024 05:09 PM (eoQWY)

419 More Americans killed in the battle for Okinawa than in Iraq and Afghanistan combined .

Posted by: polynikes at April 25, 2024 05:09 PM (MNhXM)

420 As I've said about Tucker and even Candace, neither of whom I ever particularly loved, they get a small pass from me because we live in a world of lies under a great veil that has been cast by forces seen and unseen. That is not disputable to me and anyone with two open eyes must be able to see it by now.

And when you live under this veil it becomes perfunctory to find explanations that "fit". And unfortunately many things fit because that's what happens when you are engulfed in lies. You don't know what the lies are obscuring.

So even these two numbskulls get a small pass from me, as do retroactively those who "questioned" 9/11 because they had a weird feeling that Bush and our government couldn't be trusted. They were right to ask questions and I was wrong to want to shut them up with Facts.

That's doesn't mean we should accept their theories and explanations no matter how shitty. In fact it pretty much means the opposite.

Posted by: ... at April 25, 2024 05:10 PM (lX8VI)

421 418 Slicing the abdomen open of a dude at swords reach isn't any nicer of more fun.
Posted by: Oldcat at April 25, 2024 05:09 PM (eoQWY)

=========

Do you want to know why I use a knife? Guns are too quick. You can't savor all the... little emotions. In... you see, in their last moments, people show you who they really are. So in a way, I know your friends better than you ever did. Would you like to know which of them were cowards?

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, fighting kaiju with Ishiro Honda at April 25, 2024 05:10 PM (GBKbO)

422 >>>I believe it's very easy to take that position after the war had been ended. I think if you were an American living then, and had already faced four years of war and tens of thousands of casualties, you might have a different moral calculus.

There was a large percentage of Americans at the time, who supported outright genocide of the Japanese, and only for what they did at Pearl Harbor. And even the Doolittle raid of Tokyo, very early in the war, had broad support. They were both war crimes, and it has nothing to do with weariness of war. It doesn't require one to be far left to believe this stuff was immoral.

Posted by: Tinfoil Dispenser at April 25, 2024 05:10 PM (NAuoi)

423 Which island (Okinawa?) were there only a handful of civillians lefte alive? They were willing to fight to the death.

Posted by: jim (in Kalifornia)

Saipan, where the civilians threw their children off of cliffs and jumped after them, to ensure nobody was captured alive.

Posted by: Thomas Paine at April 25, 2024 05:10 PM (lTGtQ)

424 Japan also was savage to POWs

Posted by: Skip at April 25, 2024 05:10 PM (fwDg9)

425 Wars where civilians don't die are fantasy.
Posted by: The

Not saying they are not, however the decisions about how and when they are casualties is important to us.

I am fine with hitting Hiroshima, Nagasaki, the fates of the civilians there were certainly preferable to those of Nanking.

It should be something we are mindful of since those things shape our country

Posted by: N at April 25, 2024 05:11 PM (RjBju)

426 I don't think anyone is attacking Carlson per se. They are attacking his fallacies and specious arguments.

Posted by: Marcus T at April 25, 2024 05:11 PM (5x1xh)

427
Wars where civilians don't die are fantasy.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, fighting kaiju with Ishiro Honda at April 25, 2024 05:05 PM (GBKbO)

-------

Correct.

The reason I'm anti-war now is because we don't want to fight them the way they need to be fought.

Posted by: Seems Legit at April 25, 2024 05:11 PM (JeYYB)

428 thanks for the explanation of DIME

Posted by: ace at April 25, 2024 04:54 PM (KRtlO)

No worries.
It's just a way for military planners to consider and evaluate military operations in a logical and encompassing way. I'm sure some staff officer got a medal for coming up with it.

Posted by: Diogenes at April 25, 2024 05:11 PM (W/lyH)

429 How about "It was the least worst thing?"
Posted by: fd

---
Well, from my brief watch of it, both Rogan and Tucker touched on the idea that there is no "Control History", to which we can refer to see that something didn't really need to be done.

That observation alone, should have prompted Tucker to use some moderation. But it didn't.

Posted by: Axeman at April 25, 2024 05:12 PM (krQz2)

430 Which island (Okinawa?) were there only a handful of civillians lefte alive? They were willing to fight to the death.
Posted by: jim

I've been listening to a lot of stories from Japanese survivors of the war, both military and civilian. Many didn't want to fight to the end, but were forced out of fear or obligation. When you're in a unit and told to "volunteer" for kamikaze duty, or else you and your family back home will suffer...well, look at that, people "volunteer". Civilians get told Americans will shoot them on site, so they need to help the Japanese troops and resist...they don't want to, and are terrified, but when threatened at gunpoint by their own troops...they comply.

Sure, though...many officers and senior leaders WERE gung-ho Bushido die hards, but the vast majority were not. It only takes a few leaders, and societal pressure, to make the society as a whole comply, though.

Posted by: Military Moron at April 25, 2024 05:12 PM (JCZqz)

431 yes three dots ... that makes sense

Posted by: BlackOrchid at April 25, 2024 05:12 PM (s3qiR)

432 I always find it amusing when atomic bombs, napalm, white phosphorus bombs, poison gas and cluster munitions are considered bad but TNT is okay. They are all 'chemical' weapons (atomics being on the fringe). What's the difference to dying from an incendiary bomb to getting blown to pieces by a 500lb bomb? A cannon shell?

Posted by: Ciampino - and it's always the children at April 25, 2024 05:03 PM (qfLjt)

Clusters used to be bad. But when we ran out of good shells suddenly they were good again, even though they were particularly useless against men in trenches with overhead cover like the Russians were.

Posted by: Oldcat at April 25, 2024 05:12 PM (eoQWY)

433 Japan was working on biological warfare against the US where they were going to send their balloons to release plague infected fleas on the mainland. That’s evil.

Posted by: polynikes at April 25, 2024 05:12 PM (MNhXM)

434 More Americans killed in the battle for Okinawa than in Iraq and Afghanistan combined .

For anyone with a knowledge of history the FNM reporting on the progress of the WoT was insane.

In the end we lost the war, so yes it was all pointless, but...5K losses was presented as more then any war in history at the time...as if Vietnam or Korea had never happened let alone WWII or before.

Posted by: 18-1 at April 25, 2024 05:13 PM (ibTVg)

435 FFS it took the 2nd a-bomb to get their attention.

Posted by: DaveA at April 25, 2024 05:13 PM (PMJuY)

436 "No worries.
It's just a way for military planners to consider and evaluate military operations in a logical and encompassing way. I'm sure some staff officer got a medal for coming up with it.
Posted by: Diogenes at April 25, 2024 05:11 PM (W/lyH)"

I look forward to the discussion of COIN, so I can beat it with a shovel.

Posted by: Marcus T at April 25, 2024 05:13 PM (5x1xh)

437 Ace just wants to be cool like Ben Shapiro.

Posted by: tsj017 at April 25, 2024 05:14 PM (xakWh)

438 @401 I've heard it said they were ready to surrender but NOT unconditionally until the bombs dropped.

--------

There was a peace faction in the Imperial Japanese government, and it was scrambling to find a way out of the war. But it was in the minority, and didn't hold the reigns of power.

It would be like claiming that the Republicans in the California legislature represented the positions of the California government. In reality, they're a super minority, and completely irrelevant.

Posted by: junior at April 25, 2024 05:14 PM (JJ2jk)

439 Dunno. War is brutal. When one side engages in brutality of the populace under the aegis of their regime, it is especially evil. Nuking rape.

Posted by: jim (in Kalifornia) at April 25, 2024 05:08 PM (ynpvh)

Nuking is not equal to rape.
Pixied again used Greater/less than together, was erased.

Posted by: jim (in Kalifornia) at April 25, 2024 05:15 PM (ynpvh)

440 FFS it took the 2nd a-bomb to get their attention.
Posted by: DaveA at April 25, 2024 05:13 PM (PMJuY)
---
Something people can forget in the heat of argument.

Posted by: Axeman at April 25, 2024 05:15 PM (krQz2)

441 The reason I'm anti-war now is because we don't want to fight them the way they need to be fought.

Agreed. If you don't plan to do everything you can to win you shouldn't get the right to send one grunt to his death.

I do not care how icky winning a war makes a politician feel. If you don't want to fight to win you can either:

Resign
Make the case to the public for not going to war

The in between state of "fighting just enough so the voters don't vote me out and not enough to draw the ire of the NGOs" is absurd.

Posted by: 18-1 at April 25, 2024 05:15 PM (ibTVg)

442 If Germany had had a rational leader, they would have had nukes and used them long before we did.

----
I don't know how they would have enriched Uranium. Something like Oak Ridge would have been bombed to pieces or sabotaged by SAS or similar.

Posted by: Ciampino - Vitreous Humour is funny glass #201 at April 25, 2024 05:15 PM (qfLjt)

443 I look forward to the discussion of COIN, so I can beat it with a shovel.
Posted by: Marcus T at April 25, 2024 05:13 PM (5x1xh)

So. Just gonna drop the dime?

Bwahahaha!!! I crack myself up!

Posted by: Diogenes at April 25, 2024 05:15 PM (W/lyH)

444 Which island (Okinawa?) were there only a handful of civillians lefte alive? They were willing to fight to the death.
Posted by: jim

Saipan was the first time there were significant civilians. Near the end the GI's were shocked at the women and children and civilians killing themselves and each other.

Okinawa had some civilians surrender and survive. Others did the same as Saipan.

For Japan the military was planning for civilians to become suicide bombers. They might have stopped doing it sometime if we had invaded, but evidence to the contrary was all the other places.

Posted by: Oldcat at April 25, 2024 05:16 PM (eoQWY)

445 Ace just wants to be cool like Ben Shapiro.
Posted by: tsj017 at April 25, 2024 05:14 PM (xakWh)
---
Not all of us can do what Ben Shapiro does without Helium.

Posted by: Axeman at April 25, 2024 05:16 PM (krQz2)

446 419 More Americans killed in the battle for Okinawa than in Iraq and Afghanistan combined .

Posted by: polynikes at April 25, 2024 05:09 PM (MNhXM)

How many died at Gettysburg? Antietam? Verdun?

Posted by: jim (in Kalifornia) at April 25, 2024 05:16 PM (ynpvh)

447 402 Posted by: Sloucho

very good

Posted by: The Gipper Lives at April 25, 2024 05:16 PM (pUI3J)

448
Which island (Okinawa?) were there only a handful of civillians lefte alive? They were willing to fight to the death.
Posted by: jim (in Kalifornia) at April 25, 2024 05:06 PM (ynpvh)

Pretty sure you're thinking Saipan. The one with "Banzai Cliff".

Okinawa is actually the first Japanese island which had a decent-sized survival rate for the civilians. But it's because most of the population weren't ethnically Japanese (Ainu?), and didn't have the suicidal motivations the Japs had. The Japs treated them like shit for decades.

But there were still enough Japs on Okinawa to scare the shit out of the US when we considered the upcoming casualties for invading the home islands.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at April 25, 2024 05:17 PM (n+4am)

449 At least Tucker does his homework.

Posted by: the SS's drug-recognition exam at April 25, 2024 05:17 PM (gKWVE)

450 Ace just wants to be cool like Ben Shapiro.
Posted by: tsj017

Nobody thinks Ben Shapiro is cool. They just like his sister's tits.

Posted by: Biergood at April 25, 2024 05:17 PM (PwgSL)

451 Ace just wants to be cool like Ben Shapiro.
Posted by: tsj017 at April 25, 2024 05:14 PM (xakWh)

Ace has a hawt sister?

Posted by: Diogenes at April 25, 2024 05:17 PM (W/lyH)

452 NOOD

Posted by: Jordan61 at April 25, 2024 05:17 PM (DRSnL)

453 One of modernity's fundamental misunderstandings is that war is something that just involves battles between opposing military forces. Once you lose sight of the need to compel the other side's entire population to submit, you can end up where Tucker is, claiming that any use of force against anyone other than combatants is immoral. One of the reasons I've become an isolationist is that we no longer understand war, so we can no longer win them. No point in supporting that.

Posted by: The Old Ways Are The Best Ways at April 25, 2024 05:17 PM (2DpKB)

454 424 Japan also was savage to POWs

Posted by: Skip at April 25, 2024 05:10 PM (fwDg9)

My dad saw the aftermath of the Bataan death march.

Posted by: jim (in Kalifornia) at April 25, 2024 05:18 PM (ynpvh)

455 So self defense is now evil. Seems to me we’re pretty close to justifying the confiscation of all firearms if that’s what you believe.

I found it pretty easy to dismiss Tucker Carlson when he went all in for Trump once again. Not even a hint of skepticism despite the fact he called Trump demonic in his private messages that were revealed in the lawsuit with Dominion.

Posted by: Benchmark at April 25, 2024 05:18 PM (JHRFC)

456 Don't want none?
Don't start none.

It doesn't get any simpler than that.

Posted by: rickb223 at April 25, 2024 05:18 PM (Jxvt5)

457 437 Ace just wants to be cool like Ben Shapiro.
Posted by: tsj017

I (assume) you're joking here, but I've always thought Ace was pretty authentic in his beliefs. He's waffled a bit here and there (especially with Trump), but it's genuine, reasonable, and most importantly, he still allows dissent and discourse on the site. Shapiro feigns allowing difference of opinion, but in actuality tries to suppress and successful voices too critical of Conservative Inc.

Please, Ace, if you're going to sell out...you have to do it for more than Shapiro. Thats all I ask, because fuck that little guy.

Posted by: Moron Analyst at April 25, 2024 05:18 PM (JCZqz)

458 In the American perspective, the instruments of national power are: Diplomacy, Information, Military, and Economic (DIME). According to Joint Publication 1, The ability of the US to advance its national interests is dependent on the effectiveness of the United States Government (USG) in employing the...
Posted by: andycanuck (vtyCZ) at April 25, 2024 04:53 PM (vtyCZ)

D - Do you know that we have a big stick?
I - Let us tell you about our big stick
M - We have the means to deliver our big stick anywhere in the world.
E - Let's get rich

Posted by: mrp at April 25, 2024 05:19 PM (rj6Yv)

459 FFS it took the 2nd a-bomb to get their attention.
Posted by: DaveA at April 25, 2024 05:13 PM

Because the Japanese high command refused to surrender after the first one. They firmly believed that Americans were weak and would not have the guts to invade the home islands which would have generated over a million American casualties. They doubled down after the invasion of Okinawa and really thought they could fight us to a draw and have a peace they could live with.

A big part of the issue was the unconditional surrender thing. We told them that their entire government was going to be replaced and the emperor along with that.

Posted by: Mister Scott (Formerly GWS) at April 25, 2024 05:19 PM (QNSds)

460 Tangentially related. Film starlet of the '40s and '50s, Linda Christian, was known as the Anatomic Bomb.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, I've Been Through the Desert On a Horse With No Shame at April 25, 2024 05:19 PM (FVME7)

461 The astonishing thing is that VP Truman knew nothing about the Manhattan project. That didn't come until he was President.
--------
Stalin knew about it before President Truman did!

Posted by: andycanuck (vtyCZ) at April 25, 2024 05:19 PM (vtyCZ)

462 "So. Just gonna drop the dime?

Bwahahaha!!! I crack myself up!
Posted by: Diogenes at April 25, 2024 05:15 PM (W/lyH)"

As long as you drop it on Kilcullen's head we're good. I'm more of a Liddell Hart guy.

Posted by: Marcus T at April 25, 2024 05:19 PM (5x1xh)

463 @446 Cool, let’s ad more bodies to the pile.

Posted by: Allen at April 25, 2024 05:19 PM (lFLgt)

464 Sure, though...many officers and senior leaders WERE gung-ho Bushido die hards, but the vast majority were not. It only takes a few leaders, and societal pressure, to make the society as a whole comply, though.
Posted by: Military Moron at April 25, 2024 05:12 PM (JCZqz)

The lesson of every man, woman, and child the Army had met before 1945 says differently. They fought to the death, starved before giving up, and civilians mostly died.

Men even lived on for thirty years in the backwoods of islands not surrendering. They had to take officers from Japan to islands to ORDER them to give up.

Posted by: Oldcat at April 25, 2024 05:20 PM (eoQWY)

465 @448 But it's because most of the population weren't ethnically Japanese (Ainu?),

--------

The Ainu live in the northernmost of the main islands.

I understand there are also some in Siberia.

Posted by: junior at April 25, 2024 05:21 PM (JJ2jk)

466 Posted by: jim (in Kalifornia) at April 25, 2024 05:16 PM (ynpvh)

Verdin was basically WW1.

I think about 11k killed in Gettysburg and Antietam.

World Almanacs were my favorite things to read as a kid. Useless facts in my head.

Posted by: polynikes at April 25, 2024 05:21 PM (MNhXM)

467 I don't think anyone is attacking Carlson per se. They are attacking his fallacies and specious arguments.
Posted by: Marcus T at April 25, 2024 05:11 PM (5x1xh)

no, I see a lot of abuse here at Tucker for having those thoughts.

Posted by: Kindltot at April 25, 2024 05:22 PM (D7oie)

468 I've always thought there was something 'hinky' about Tucker. The Gnostics claimed to have 'special knowledge' too.

Posted by: Debbie at April 25, 2024 05:22 PM (vPplw)

469 Tucker's position on the nukes reflects a distinct lack of intellectual seriousness.

My earlier departure from Tucker seems like I was ahead of the game. Goodnight Tucker. No longer worth listening to.

Posted by: Black JEM at April 25, 2024 05:23 PM (UVyKP)

470 There were 9 days from Hiroshima and 6 days from Nagasaki before Japan announced its surrender and the another two weeks for the ceremony

Posted by: SMOD at April 25, 2024 05:24 PM (0OdlD)

471 Posted by: Kindltot at April 25, 2024 05:22 PM (D7oie)

You are correct and he deserves all he gets.

Posted by: polynikes at April 25, 2024 05:24 PM (MNhXM)

472 466 Posted by: jim (in Kalifornia) at April 25, 2024 05:16 PM (ynpvh)

Verdin was basically WW1.

I think about 11k killed in Gettysburg and Antietam.

World Almanacs were my favorite things to read as a kid. Useless facts in my head.

Posted by: polynikes at April 25, 2024 05:21 PM (MNhXM)

Yes, Verdun was WW1, with something like 900K casualties on both sides total.

Yes, I know that casualties are more than just deaths (i.e. wounded, captured, missing).

Posted by: jim (in Kalifornia) at April 25, 2024 05:24 PM (ynpvh)

473 Men even lived on for thirty years in the backwoods of islands not surrendering. They had to take officers from Japan to islands to ORDER them to give up.
Posted by: Oldcat at April 25, 2024 05:20 PM (eoQWY)

One man. His name was Hiro Onoda. He had an interesting story.

waving a bloody shirt does not make your revenge justified. It just gets blood spattered everywhere.

Posted by: Kindltot at April 25, 2024 05:25 PM (D7oie)

474 Wars where civilians don't die are fantasy.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, fighting kaiju with Ishiro Honda at April 25, 2024 05:05 PM (GBKbO)
---
This is like how I realized that I *was* in some sense more authoritarian than a lefty.

They believe the final state is for everybody to be autonomous, thus there is no need for authority. They may believe that the Leaders have to run me through a ringer to get me fit to enter this world (in Marx's head), but ultimately it's for NO AUTHORITY.

Well, the end sounds great, but you're kind of making a point that authority is pragmatically necessary in purging mankind of dependence on authority.

My acceptance that 1) authorities may always exist, 2) they should observe your civil rights--but you still have to defer to them, in some form, is what lefties consider "authoritarianism".

That the world is not perfect and authority plays a role in that imperfect world...IS "authoritarianism" to the people that have convinced themselves that they need to seize control to save us from the pragmatic view that we may always need authority for law and order.

Posted by: Axeman at April 25, 2024 05:25 PM (krQz2)

475 When a man turns 50 years old he must become an expert in one of two things: WWII history or smoked meats.

Posted by: I have a Weber gas three burner at April 25, 2024 05:26 PM (jAber)

476 You are correct and he deserves all he gets.
Posted by: polynikes at April 25, 2024 05:24 PM (MNhXM)

"he was better when he was controlled by Fox, the cable company that hates me and censors my ideals" is a terrible position to argue from.

Posted by: Kindltot at April 25, 2024 05:27 PM (D7oie)

477 Tucker is Pat Buchanan, Jr. I don't see the philosophy as isolationist. It is keep our "investment" in the United States so that the return comes back to us.

I note how Congress can't find funds for its own citizens, but will pour billions into the coffers of other nations - with some skimmed off the top for the "policy makers".

On Nuking Japan - Tucker is just wrong. Its easy to look back 80 years and think "I could have won it differently". That is just garbage. Think of the harm an additional 1million-1.5million dead US servicemen would have inflicted on our nation. Invading Japan without nuclear weapons would have been ruinous.

On Israel/Hamas - Hamas are cave men with rockets. The only thing they get is "bonk bonk". Let the grups bonk-bonk the cavemen.

Posted by: Jake Speed at April 25, 2024 05:28 PM (Vu1jV)

478 I have read 2 books on the Rape of Nanking
I got no more sympathy to Fudal Japan than Muslims conquests

Posted by: Skip at April 25, 2024 05:28 PM (fwDg9)

479 D - Do you know that we have a big stick?
I - Let us tell you about our big stick
M - We have the means to deliver our big stick anywhere in the world.

Posted by: mrp at April 25, 2024 05:19 PM (rj6Yv)
---
The Paolo, he can practice the DIM.

Posted by: The Paolo at April 25, 2024 05:28 PM (krQz2)

480 309 Posted by: sven at April 25, 2024 04:54 PM (X0I7i)

If targeting civilians is wrong when our enemies do it, at least have the balls to admit it's wrong when WE do it. This does not make someone "far left."

There's lot of room to disagree over how WW2 should have been handled, but conservatives should at least have some principles involved in their positions.

Posted by: Tinfoil Dispenser at April 25, 2024 05:29 PM (NAuoi)

481 Tucker's position on the nukes reflects a distinct lack of intellectual seriousness.

My earlier departure from Tucker seems like I was ahead of the game. Goodnight Tucker. No longer worth listening to.
Posted by: Black JEM at April 25, 2024 05:23 PM (UVyKP)

I am very concerned about the flagrant way the West has crossed red lines versus a nuclear power and risked escalating to a possible mass nuclear war.

I am disgusted that the incident shows that the US is not able to sustain a war for our potential survival due to insufficient weapons and munitions and industry yet diplomatically works toward one..or two...or three wars. People should be hung for this situation, it is treason.

It doesn't follow that Nagasaki was a bad choice.

Posted by: Oldcat at April 25, 2024 05:29 PM (eoQWY)

482 You are correct and he deserves all he gets.
Posted by: polynikes at April 25, 2024 05:24 PM (MNhXM)

"he was better when he was controlled by Fox, the cable company that hates me and censors my ideals" is a terrible position to argue from.

Posted by: Kindltot at April 25, 2024 05:27 PM (D7oie)
---
It doesn't have to be he was "controlled" by Fox. He just knew he had people he had to justify his content in front of. I don't think it was Fox, I think it was the knowledge that you had to have a solid line on what you were presenting.

Posted by: The Paolo at April 25, 2024 05:30 PM (krQz2)

483 Men even lived on for thirty years in the backwoods of islands not surrendering. They had to take officers from Japan to islands to ORDER them to give up.
Posted by: Oldcat at April 25, 2024 05:20 PM (eoQWY)

One man. His name was Hiro Onoda. He had an interesting story.

waving a bloody shirt does not make your revenge justified. It just gets blood spattered everywhere.
Posted by: Kindltot at April 25, 2024 05:25 PM (D7oie)

No, they did that for many islands in 1945 and following.

Posted by: Oldcat at April 25, 2024 05:31 PM (eoQWY)

484 World Almanacs were my favorite things to read as a kid. Useless facts in my head.
Posted by: polynikes at April 25, 2024 05:21 PM (MNhXM)

You should see my collection.

Posted by: Catch Thirty-Thr33 at April 25, 2024 05:32 PM (mggQ3)

485 There was a faction within the J War Cabinet that was angling for peace towards the end if the war. The bombings allowed Japan to surrender without losing face. Science had defeated Japan. Science!
Else they’d have welcomed the mother of all invasions.

Posted by: Rex B at April 25, 2024 05:33 PM (Mn5g+)

486 My acceptance that 1) authorities may always exist, 2) they should observe your civil rights--but you still have to defer to them, in some form, is what lefties consider "authoritarianism".

[ . . . ]
Posted by: Axeman at April 25, 2024 05:25 PM (krQz2)

I don't know which decade you are living in, but this is no longer what the lefties consider authoritarianism. Maybe some birkenstock wearing granola head who still contributes to NPR for the stylish totebags, but the political left now wants deference to authority, as long as it is the right authority.

Your argument is Hume, but IIRC Hume is a touch more complex than what you lay out. Hume also calls for social contract and not merely submission. Spooner is far more granular about formalizing social contracts for the community, though I would say he has not been shown to be able to scale to society level in general and relies on individual interraction.

Posted by: Kindltot at April 25, 2024 05:35 PM (D7oie)

487 The A bombs had a secondary effect in preventing the Cold War from going nuclear, IMO. The horror of what happened in Japan was enough to stay everyone's hands, I like to think.

Posted by: Chairborne!...Desk From Above! at April 25, 2024 05:35 PM (vHfLU)

488 GM27 @ 7 - Totally correct.

Paul Fussell has entered the chat.

Posted by: butch at April 25, 2024 05:37 PM (4nut+)

489 Go dig a bomb shelter, Chicken Little. Since you are so cock-sure nuclear war is inevitable. JFC, it’s like talking to a Leftist in the 1980s.
Posted by: Catch Thirty-Thr33 at April 25, 2024 05:05 PM (mggQ3)

you mean the most evil man in the world with an incompetent army who is bound to lose won't use nukes like every cold war simulation indicated they would?

Posted by: Kindltot at April 25, 2024 05:37 PM (D7oie)

490 Tucker is losing it, spinning from reality. He's been all over in his career and, at 54, is completely untethered. He lacks definition & a solid conviction of anything and he's making poor choices.

Business Insider, 10/10/2017, 'Harvey Weinstein has donated over $1 million to Democrats since 2000 – here are some of the biggest names. (Very helpful chart, not linked here.)

In part, "Since the 2000 election cycle, Weinstein has donated nearly $1 million in his own name in addition to collecting and providing roughly $1.5 million as a part of "bundled" donations, which the Center for Responsive Politics defines as contributions provided by "people with friends in high places who, after bumping against personal contribution limits, turn to those friends, associates, and, well, anyone who's willing to give, and deliver the checks to the candidate."

Tucker, who worked for Weinstein decades ago, goes on Rogan's show & talks about him. Newsweek, 'Tucker Carlson Recalls Working for Harvey Weinstein—'He Was a Pig' published Apr 22, 2024. Now today we have: NBC News, 'Harvey Weinstein's 2020 rape conviction overturned by New York appeals court'

$ or not, I'd be watching my back.

Posted by: L - If they do it with you, they'll do it to you, too at April 25, 2024 05:38 PM (NFX2v)

491 If targeting civilians is wrong when our enemies do it, at least have the balls to admit it's wrong when WE do it. This does not make someone "far left."

There's lot of room to disagree over how WW2 should have been handled, but conservatives should at least have some principles involved in their positions.
Posted by: Tinfoil Dispenser at April 25, 2024 05:29 PM (NAuoi)

First we weren’t targeting civilians. We were targeting military targets that unfortunately civilians are present. Second your moral equivalence of our enemies actions compared to ours is so ridiculously off base I shouldn’t even be addressing you.

Posted by: polynikes at April 25, 2024 05:40 PM (MNhXM)

492 Just think about the fact that we only had two bombs. If Hirohito hadn't had his epiphany, the war would have continued.

Posted by: pawn at April 25, 2024 05:41 PM (QB+5g)

493 tucker lost me when he only showed a few minutes of the Jan 6 videos. He had an opportunity to change the world and poured water on his powder.

Posted by: iandeal at April 25, 2024 05:41 PM (rm+nU)

494 Just think about the fact that we only had two bombs. If Hirohito hadn't had his epiphany, the war would have continued.
Posted by: pawn at April 25, 2024 05:41 PM (QB+5g)

We would have had five to seven more within 6-8 months.

Posted by: polynikes at April 25, 2024 05:42 PM (MNhXM)

495 No, they did that for many islands in 1945 and following.
Posted by: Oldcat at April 25, 2024 05:31 PM (eoQWY)

no, one man made it decades - only one man.
The others went home when they got the word. Onoda got in his head that defeat was impossible and all the reports were disinformation.
He had been an intelligence agent who had been chosen for "behind the line" sabotage tasks, and he decided to carry them out faithfully.
It is an interesting book.

Posted by: Kindltot at April 25, 2024 05:43 PM (D7oie)

496 I liked Tucker. It's a shame he lost his gig at Fox -- it was the only thing consistently worth watching. And I honestly haven't listened to his podcast. Since I'm on the computer 9 hours a day, going back to it after dinner seems an atrocious waste of time. But I did see the blurb on Rogan, where he proclaimed use of nukes to end WWII an inhuman thing. I don't know that it's a leftist slant to his thinking, or that it's just a stupidly over-simplistic take -- akin to an AI bot saying, "Let the world burn; I'm not going to say 'ni**er' in order to defuse the bomb, because that's a bad word." I always thought Carlson to be more nuanced than that.

Posted by: red speck at April 25, 2024 05:45 PM (0Id0S)

497 The argument FOR nuking two cities in Japan was "If we don't do this, tens of thousands more US soldiers will die....."

We'll never know that, of course.

But that's IDENTICAL to the "If we don't save Ukraine, Putin will march on (pick your city) Paris, London, Utrecht, New York, Pittsburgh......"

See how those arguments work?

The Powers-That-Be have always, always, always, used BoogeyMan. Scare you sh*tless tactics. Why? Because it works, as it did in WWII, so in Iraq, then Covid 19, now Ukraine.

A bit more cold, hard, flinty-eyed examination is in order, no?

Posted by: dad29 at April 25, 2024 05:48 PM (yLOsE)

498 Tucker seems to have lost his moorings; that or there is a serious, deep state op out there to make the thinkers reject him; or perhaps something else. As was stated in the movie, Sniper or something, when they were speaking with the old sniper armorer expert guy who could barely see: " you see that there are all kinds of schemes the govt is carrying out and they have to fool a whole bunch of people to do it; if you think you've got it all figured out - they already have you".
There is a whole lot we don't know, and this group of Morons knows a lot. Collectively, probably the most well, accurately-informed group of strangers in the country if not the planet.

Posted by: Bonecrusher at April 25, 2024 05:50 PM (ec6Sw)

499 Sad I missed this thread. Tucker is 100% wrong on this but the dude is awesome.

Posted by: thathalfrican - The One at April 25, 2024 05:50 PM (eQRY8)

500 491 Posted by: polynikes at April 25, 2024 05:40 PM (MNhXM)

Dropping a nuke onto the center of a city is by definition targeting civilians.

I don't see myself moral-equivalencing here. If one is going to say "x is wrong" I think that statement should be equally applicable to anyone engaging in "x." I haven't excused anything the Japanese did. But all of you people are doing the exact same thing you sneer at liberals for doing, when they say, "it's not wrong when WE do it." But you're too blind to see it.

So if bombing entire cities is OK, is there a line in war we should not cross? Should we have rules? I'm not talking about what the enemy does. Should we, who consider ourselves the "good guys," have some kind of boundary? Or, since they threw the first punch, is it anything goes?

Posted by: Tinfoil Dispenser at April 25, 2024 06:04 PM (NAuoi)

501 The cities chosen for the dropping of bombs was considered and for the military significance of the target. There is no workable way to conduct war AND strike only the military.

Civilians are inevitably killed in any war.

War is not a game - but if your engaged in it - it must be won.

We were attacked - Britain was attacked. War, at that time, was not our decision, but was forced on us.

Discussing how we ended the war is preferable from the alternatives. I wonder how horrific the Rape of Los Angeles would have been at the hands of a victorious Japanese Empire.

All this second guessing is disgusting.

Posted by: Jake Speed at April 25, 2024 06:19 PM (Vu1jV)

502 Rush Limbaugh always had a problem with Carlson...think I'm beginning to understand why...

Posted by: Lloyd Christmas at April 25, 2024 06:20 PM (P25G5)

503 502 Rush Limbaugh always had a problem with Carlson...think I'm beginning to understand why...
Posted by: Lloyd Christmas at April 25, 2024 06:20 PM (P25G5)

You mean Chatsworth Osgood the third?

Yeah, Tucker is definitely not one to trust. His kids are registered Democrats. I always feel like he's playing a part and doesn't believe in anything. The fact that he can't or won't make a moral distinction between the Israeli-Hamas fight and the Ukraine-Russia fight is telling.
When Tucker interviewed Chris Cuomo he didn't press Cuomo on laughing it up with his brother while 15,000 people were killed by the Wuhan flu.

Posted by: Iblis at April 25, 2024 06:28 PM (9221z)

504 501 The cities chosen for the dropping of bombs was considered and for the military significance of the target. There is no workable way to conduct war AND strike only the military.

Civilians are inevitably killed in any war.

War is not a game - but if your engaged in it - it must be won.

We were attacked - Britain was attacked. War, at that time, was not our decision, but was forced on us.

Discussing how we ended the war is preferable from the alternatives. I wonder how horrific the Rape of Los Angeles would have been at the hands of a victorious Japanese Empire.

All this second guessing is disgusting.
Posted by: Jake Speed at April 25, 2024 06:19 PM (Vu1jV)

And very few people get worked up over the firebombing of Dresden, which killed a similar numbers of people. But required a much greater military effort to do so. But dead white people, so who cares?
No, we know the men who created and dropped the bomb had serious moral questions, but they were not the ones who started the war. They ended the war as fast as they good. And then rebuilt what they destroyed.

Posted by: Iblis at April 25, 2024 06:38 PM (9221z)

505 Just because something is evil (nuking Japan) doesn't mean it was not the appropriate thing to do. He isn't wrong calling it evil. It was as evil as the rest of the war.

I'm a fan of Tucker specifically because he questions everything. If his opinion, or shared words, are zany, so what? No different than bloggers that I follow

Posted by: Texas T at April 25, 2024 06:54 PM (JdV5Q)

506 I agree on Carlson. He's becoming 'cringe' as my sons say, and his rationale of 'just asking questions' is as weak as John Stewart's 'I'm just a comedian' schtick when cornered.

Posted by: Lex at April 25, 2024 07:09 PM (QlUHh)

507 Posted by: Sloucho

The Japanese had their own nuclear program. So did the soviets.

Without Hiroshima and Nagasaki as warnings to humanity, the next nuclear war would have perhaps been the last…

I love Tucker but the UFO stuff freaked me out and this is just… ahistorical and dumb.

Posted by: Justin Pinochet Castreau at April 25, 2024 07:29 PM (B14yJ)

508
The Japanese had their own nuclear program. So did the soviets.

Yeah, the commies had their own program. They called it the Manhattan Project.

Posted by: outside adjitator at April 25, 2024 08:07 PM (Qoa6L)

509 The Tucker Carlson interview with Joe was the most insulting that I have seen. I went in expecting him to be a truth teller about his firing, about the things he learned and the goals he wants to achieve, but he came off as a bigger loon than von Dannican.

Meanwhile, go back a year or two, and the podcast with Bill Maher made me have a LOT of respect for bill. Bill is Wrong, but he had a humanity to him, and that made me respect him.

Tucker's absolutism was just off putting. "I know things but I can't tell you" makes me hate him. It reminded me of the podcast with the guy from blink 182. "I have contacts and UFO'S are real, but I can't tell you, about the things that I won't actually say."

As an aside.

I'm not religious, I was raised Catholicish, and I am well versed in the general study of catholic doctrin, and of course having re-read the bible a few times in terms of reference.

There is a counter argument to the in the absense of faith you will follow anything sort of statement. I'm on the opposite sided. In the face of ANT-FAITH, I have found myself turning closer to it again.

Posted by: Wickedpinto at April 25, 2024 08:15 PM (XKj0h)

510 I think Tucker treats his audience with contempt. He thinks they are just ignorant enough to accept, unquestioning, the nonsense he trotted out in Moscow or in his 'interviews' with Candace Owens or the Pally priest.
It's about time American conservatism got over it's weird infatuation with him and other talking heads.
He isn't a serious thinker, he's not even a good interviewer and he certainly isn't interested (or capable) of truly giving viewers a full appreciation of the subjects he pretends to cover.
My old housemaster used to say "Read everything, read deeply and take no buggers word for absolute truth".
I think that's the 2nd best advice I ever got after, "Never put your finger where you wouldn't put your willy".
Still got all my fingers!

Posted by: stv at April 25, 2024 08:43 PM (vmHhd)

511 There is only one way to commit to war.
War is hell.
Civilians have to get out of the way, or become fodder.
Total commitment. Make the opposition cry for mercy.
Anything less is BS, which is what we are dealing with today.
Today, war is touchy feely. That is not war. It is procrastination and costly. Which is the point, profit!
An actual war is to win ASAP. Make the opponent suffer, quickly and irreparable.

Posted by: john at April 25, 2024 08:54 PM (nEWxZ)

512 Really disappointing to see the crowd dump on Tucker. I like him and think he speaks the truth as he sees it. Is he always right or do I always agree with him--No. But WTF is WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE? You deserve the MSM you get! Listen to MSNBC or CNN if that makes you feel better...

Posted by: Ozzie at April 25, 2024 09:10 PM (iOwhL)

513 I started to listen to this while I was doing some other things. Kinda half listening. At one point he implies that even nuclear fission was helped along by supernatural means because there was no ah-ha Newton hit on the head with an apple moment. What? Has the guy read anything in detail about what he’s talking about? Basically, HE doesn’t understand it so there you go … supernatural. He’s not alone in this… but he is really veering into the tall weeds with a large following.

Posted by: PaterNovem at April 25, 2024 09:46 PM (Ryu2c)

514 512 Really disappointing to see the crowd dump on Tucker. I like him and think he speaks the truth as he sees it. Is he always right or do I always agree with him--No. But WTF is WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE? You deserve the MSM you get! Listen to MSNBC or CNN if that makes you feel better...
Posted by: Ozzie at April 25, 2024 09:10 PM (iOwhL)

I missed the memo that states Mr. Carlson is above criticism.

Posted by: Catch Thirty-Thr33 at April 26, 2024 12:03 AM (8sMut)

515 The Instapanzy / Ace Of Special 'Mericans have jumped the shark. Good riddance. 👍 It'll be fun to troll you dingbats when Trump takes office.

Posted by: MikeN at April 26, 2024 12:18 AM (sGt6g)

516 511 Posted by: john at April 25, 2024 08:54 PM (nEWxZ)

>>> Civilians have to get out of the way, or become fodder.
Total commitment. Make the opposition cry for mercy.

Do you believe there should be any boundaries at all for what is off-limits in a war? Or is it anything goes? Torture children, kill babies in front of their mothers, terrorism? Is all that on the table for you, too?

Posted by: Tinfoil Dispenser at April 26, 2024 09:12 AM (NAuoi)

517 I hate to say this, because I usually hate theories like this, but I think Tucker's been bought by someone. The guy turns into Fox's superstar, then is cold-fired by Fox for making too much sense too often, then he appears to be on the brink of turning himself into a one-man news and opinion juggernaut that says everything the Establishment fears, and then.... he's suddenly anti-Israel and saying that the US was manifestly evil to bomb Japan and end WWII. It's too convenient. I look for him to say even more things compatible with the left in the future. Once a supposedly conservative star burns too brightly, he gets his balls clipped. It happens too often to be coincidence. They all have their price, and someone is just figuring out what the amount is.

Posted by: dabhidh at April 26, 2024 10:28 AM (aZWEX)

518 Tucker Carlson is a national treasure. Not just because he had th courage to swim upstream in the ideological sewer that is the corporate media, but do so with panache in attacking the Left. He’s a NATIONAL TREASURE because he’s willing to question the realities the Right assumes. One of those realities is that Russia is, and should be, our ideological enemy. That’s not wise. We made friends with the Germans after we defeated them. But we’re now engaged in a proxy war in Eastern Europe because of “Russia Bad” and “Putin’s evil.” Russia sees an existential threat – NATO – edging closer to their doorstep, and we’re confirming their paranoia by arming their enemies. When a nuclear-armed country considers an existential threat, it’s not wise to see if you can get them to set off nuclear fireworks.
I have always believed that the nuclear attacks on Hiroshima and Nagasaki were justified. War is hell, as someone once said. But I understand that incinerating a city is not necessarily an unalloyed good thing. And, given the fact that the government has been gaslighting the country about so many things in the last few years, is it possible the story about the number of people w

Posted by: Moneyrunner at April 26, 2024 02:42 PM (qJ5Lc)

519 It becomes a lot easier to question the validity of napalming civilian neighborhoods when you realize that the FedGov is thinking about doing it to yours.

When you realize the FBI/CIA have been massively corrupt for ever, it becomes easier to wonder if the US Military is also corrupt. Especially when the Military does nothing about the Theft of the Last Election.

Looking back through History, you can start with WW1. The Sinking of the Lusitania. Hmm, the Germans told us not to send it out. We did. It had artillery shells on board so it was a legit target. Yet we're told We're the Good Guys.

Or Ft. Sumter, contrary to agreement, Lincoln was sending in supplies.

You find that FDR probably knew about Pearl Harbor.

Things start to become clear. It seems like there is a regular playbook. The mainstream history is 'America gets attacked unjustly out of the blue, and we rise in righteous rage to avenge our losses'.

Real history looks more like we deliberately provoked our enemy until they finally lashed out.

Atheist Sherman burnt Atlanta. Vicksburg was starved so American children ate rats.
Dresden burned so that perhaps half million civilians died.
The CHRISTIAN city of Nagasaki

Posted by: Eric2 at April 26, 2024 05:44 PM (Q1YqC)

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