Of Course: Soviet Judge Demands Trump Pay $355 Million for the Non-Crime of Not Defrauding Anybody

Literally everyone up-estimates the value of their holdings when applying for a loan.

New York State just decided this is illegal, and in fact a crime worth a $355 million penalty.

Just kidding -- this rule will not be applied to anyone else. This is yet another Trump Only Law.

A New York judge ordered Donald Trump and his companies on Friday to pay $355 million, finding they engaged in a yearslong scheme to dupe banks and others with financial statements that inflated his wealth.
Trump won't have to pay out the money immediately as an appeals process plays out, but the verdict still is a stunning setback for the former president.
If he's ultimately forced to pay, the magnitude of the penalty, on top of earlier judgments, could dramatically diminish his financial resources. And it undermines the image of a successful businessman that he's carefully tailored to power his unlikely rise from a reality television star to a onetime -- and perhaps future -- president.

Which was the whole point, of course.

Will Chamberlain

@willchamberlain

Between the United States and Russia, one country just arbitrarily seized the assets of an oligarch opposed to the regime, and is trying to jail him

The other country is Russia

Thanks to Robert.

Posted by: Disinformation Expert Ace at 05:10 PM

Comments

(Jump to bottom of comments)

1 Joe's in E. Palestine now.

Posted by: pawn at February 16, 2024 05:10 PM (QB+5g)

2 No justice under the law

Posted by: Formerly Virginian at February 16, 2024 05:10 PM (JMAcK)

3 Actual victimless crime.

Posted by: huerfano at February 16, 2024 05:11 PM (Q4KYm)

4 Watch the Mike Benz interview by Tucker on Twitter. It's everything you suspected was going on times a million.

Posted by: Liz at February 16, 2024 05:12 PM (KlGsH)

5 I so admire President Trump.

Posted by: goddessoftheclassroom at February 16, 2024 05:12 PM (sE4sa)

6 Process is the punishment. They don't care if this verdict gets shredded on appeal.

Posted by: GM27, SEP Field Technician at February 16, 2024 05:12 PM (pgwxJ)

7 This won't stop until Democrats get a taste of it. People like George Soros have entities that operate in "Red States", why are these types being dragged in front of kangaroo courts?

Posted by: Blago at February 16, 2024 05:12 PM (wMRY8)

8 Drumpf is done done done! Omfg yes!!! ROFL!

Posted by: Sid at February 16, 2024 05:12 PM (SkTxS)

9 Obviously, the judge was prejudiced.

Posted by: SkylerKat at February 16, 2024 05:12 PM (6JOB5)

10 Clean-up on Aisle 8.

Posted by: GM27, SEP Field Technician at February 16, 2024 05:13 PM (pgwxJ)

11 Sentence First!

Posted by: Red Queen at February 16, 2024 05:13 PM (krQz2)

12 Government crime is the most lucrative crime.

Posted by: Beyond Norman Parameters at February 16, 2024 05:13 PM (T6L0l)

13 i think this sid is a parody.

Posted by: ace at February 16, 2024 05:13 PM (KRtlO)

14 This is like being car jacked for a 1944 Willys jeep.

Posted by: Dr. Bone at February 16, 2024 05:13 PM (EEgXH)

15 Just kidding -- this rule will not be applied to anyone else. This is yet another Trump Only Law.
---
This guy gets it.

Posted by: Judge Bill O'Attainder at February 16, 2024 05:14 PM (krQz2)

16 >Joe's in E. Palestine now.

Posted by: pawn
---

Someone should tell him

Posted by: Don Black at February 16, 2024 05:14 PM (geLO8)

17 Who did James claim was the victim?

Posted by: GM27, SEP Field Technician at February 16, 2024 05:14 PM (pgwxJ)

18 President Trump underestimated the value of my ass while he raped me in the men's room at Connolly's Irish Pub in the heart of Times Square.

Where's My Check?

Posted by: Hairyback Guy at February 16, 2024 05:14 PM (R/m4+)

19 Someone should tell him
Posted by: Don Black at February 16, 2024 05:14 PM (geLO

LOL

Posted by: It's me donna at February 16, 2024 05:15 PM (Akjoo)

20 NY has an upcoming $15 billion deficit. They're being overrun by illegal aliens, 4 of whom beat 2 cops and just got out on bail put up by Democrats and drug lords. Another illegal alien shot a guy in Times Square. Crime is up, quality of life is down. It's the highest taxes state in the country. Now it's kangaroo court just sent a message to the entire state that nobody who disagrees with the regime will get a fair trial.

Why is there a single person left in that state? No matter what your politics are, it's pretty clear things are about to get disastrous.

Posted by: Truthbomb at February 16, 2024 05:15 PM (rH414)

21 i think this sid is a parody.
Posted by: ace at February 16, 2024 05:13 PM (KRtlO)
---
Besides, it's harmless stupidity on display, not racial hatred.

Posted by: Axeman at February 16, 2024 05:15 PM (krQz2)

22 BTW, that judge looks a guy who's intimately familiar with what shit on a dick tastes like.

Posted by: GM27, SEP Field Technician at February 16, 2024 05:15 PM (pgwxJ)

23 Who did James claim was the victim?

Posted by: GM27, SEP Field Technician at February 16, 2024 05:14 PM (pgwxJ)
---
Trump raped the state of New York.

Posted by: Axeman at February 16, 2024 05:16 PM (krQz2)

24 We are watching Cicero in live time. He has to run, and win simply to stay off the wolves.

Posted by: Nick in Tallahassee at February 16, 2024 05:16 PM (C4WAQ)

25 Punks like this punk assed judge will continue to act with impunity until they are stopped.

Posted by: uniparty, Raping and Mutilating the Children They do not Kill at February 16, 2024 05:16 PM (gxokI)

26 Trump raped me in a Bergdorf-Goodman bathroom just like that episode of Law & Order I masturbated about

Posted by: The State of New York at February 16, 2024 05:17 PM (KRtlO)

27 The Right self-owns quite a it with the childish belief that the favor will be returned, but this is a case that will have repercussions. Opening business in New York just became an own goal. Couple that with a multitude of other problems in that state, and solvency becomes doubtful. Some of the financial guys who don't like Trump see the handwriting on the wall and are grumbling.

Posted by: Trump poisoned my cat at February 16, 2024 05:17 PM (Pa9Qi)

28 No jury. Just a star chamber

Posted by: A dude in MI at February 16, 2024 05:17 PM (/6GbT)

29 Joe's in E. Palestine now.
Posted by: pawn at February 16, 2024 05:10 PM (QB+5g)
---
He's incensed by the chemical attack by the IDGAF.

Posted by: Axeman at February 16, 2024 05:17 PM (krQz2)

30 Trump once looked at me.

I demand eleventy billion

Posted by: thathalfrican - The One at February 16, 2024 05:17 PM (6bKJR)

31 "I can't believe how terrible the bombing has been here. This place isn't fit to live in. We need more relief for these poor Palestinians"

Posted by: Joey B at February 16, 2024 05:17 PM (QB+5g)

32 18 President Trump underestimated the value of my ass while he raped me in the men's room at Connolly's Irish Pub in the heart of Times Square.

Where's My Check?
Posted by: Hairyback Guy
---------
HB Guy,
I am worried about you as Trump is apparently raping you non-stop everywhere. Can't you get multimillion justice for vague allegations of misconduct because Orange Man Bad?

Mebbe Morgan and Morgan will take you on as a client and Reid Hoffman pay for your legal costs.

Posted by: whig at February 16, 2024 05:17 PM (9FrDg)

33 Not the point Ace. Doesn’t matter whether trump said his property was worth a trillion. A bank does an appraisal on any property they are loaning money on. Trump doesn’t decide this. The bank does.

Posted by: Jaimo at February 16, 2024 05:18 PM (sOA7y)

34 Trump raped the state of New York.

If he used "fraudulently valued collateral" to buy larger properties, he paid the state more in property tax, not less.

Posted by: GM27, SEP Field Technician at February 16, 2024 05:18 PM (pgwxJ)

35 Trump grabbed banks by the pussy!

Posted by: Axeman at February 16, 2024 05:18 PM (krQz2)

36 "i think this sid is a parody.
Posted by: ace at February 16, 2024 05:13 PM (KRtlO)"

Nonetheless, it would be entertaining to duct tape him to a metal chair, throw him down a set of metal and concrete fire stairs, into a puddle of burning gasoline.

Posted by: Marcus T at February 16, 2024 05:18 PM (ElRvh)

37 Biden: "I promised you a ceasefire and statehood : I guess East Palestine is as good a name as any."

Posted by: WisRich at February 16, 2024 05:19 PM (G0vdT)

38 22 BTW, that judge looks a guy who's intimately familiar with what shit on a dick tastes like.
Posted by: GM27

YOU don't want to see the shirtless pix of the Judge that he proudly put on his alumni newsletter. Stuff of children's nightmares.

Posted by: whig at February 16, 2024 05:19 PM (9FrDg)

39 Posted by: Jaimo at February 16, 2024 05:18 PM (sOA7y)

If we were playing “spot the faggot” I would win because this person clearly has tasted penis.

Posted by: thathalfrican - The One at February 16, 2024 05:20 PM (6bKJR)

40 It goes without saying this is all going to be reversed on appeal but in the mean time, these viscous thugs have achieved their short term goal of hurting Trump, pricking at him, stabbing at him, and perhaps, they no doubt desire, killing him.

Monsters, all of them.

Posted by: Thomas Bender at February 16, 2024 05:20 PM (XV/Pl)

41 8 - hey Sid. You’re an asshole. Go fuck yourself on the way out the door.

Posted by: Jaimo at February 16, 2024 05:20 PM (sOA7y)

42 I copied the wrong post my bad Jaimo.

Was meant for 8

My reply to you was going to be; so if you overvalue your property the bank can you fuck you over?

Posted by: thathalfrican - The One at February 16, 2024 05:22 PM (6bKJR)

43 Damn glad I don't do business in NYC.

Posted by: CrotchetyOldJarhead at February 16, 2024 05:22 PM (YRsIm)

44 Only in NY could there be a victimless crime, where no injury, nor unlawful act was committed according to statute and the judge still found the defendant guilty.

Pretty much any business in NY was just put on notice they can be at the Democrats discretion, lawlessly, and unconstitutionally have their property taken away without cause.

Every business incorporated in NY should leave.

Posted by: Marcus T at February 16, 2024 05:22 PM (ElRvh)

45 This is all about hamstringing Trump... casting doubt on his ability to actually run, and potentially win the "election." It puts doubt in people's eyes about his viability.

There will be more.... because of course there will.

Posted by: Martini Farmer at February 16, 2024 05:22 PM (Q4IgG)

46 Give NYC to the Gazans, as the Palistinian second state. They wouldn’t have much to do to lower it to third-world shithole status. They’d be there in no time.

F**k NYC.

Posted by: Bulgaroctonus at February 16, 2024 05:23 PM (9yWhg)

47 New Marx should be the new name of New York.

Posted by: Axeman at February 16, 2024 05:23 PM (krQz2)

48 goes without saying this is all going to be reversed on appeal but in the mean time, these viscous thugs have achieved their short term goal of hurting Trump, pricking at him, stabbing at him, and perhaps, they no doubt desire, killing him.

Monsters, all of them.
Posted by: Thomas Bender

He's also going to have to pony up the bond for the appeal.

Posted by: BruceWayne at February 16, 2024 05:23 PM (MGB5H)

49 This is like being car jacked for a 1944 Willys jeep.
Posted by: Dr. Bone

Did Willys make an automatic transmission model?

Posted by: SFGoth at February 16, 2024 05:23 PM (KAi1n)

50 This is all about hamstringing Trump... casting doubt on his ability to actually run, and potentially win the "election." It puts doubt in people's eyes about his viability.

There will be more.... because of course there will.
Posted by: Martini Farmer at February 16, 2024 05:22 PM (Q4IgG)
---
Especially when they investigate his contributors.

Posted by: Axeman at February 16, 2024 05:24 PM (krQz2)

51 YOU don't want to see the shirtless pix of the Judge that he proudly put on his alumni newsletter. Stuff of children's nightmares.
Posted by: whig at February 16, 2024 05:19 PM (9FrDg)

Maybe Trump should have hired someone off the street to jump over the judges desk.

Posted by: thatcrazyjerseyguy now with twice the crazy at February 16, 2024 05:24 PM (iODuv)

52 I know this may be OT (apologies) but in the Tucker interview 75 with Mike Benz it is revealed that publishing anything contrary to the uniparty state is now considered a crime of domestic terrorism, right up there with disabling a power plant or poisoning a water reservoir and it falls under the powers of the DHS.
The same DHS that denies RFK jr. secret service protections.
Ace probably knows about this but I never did.

Posted by: gourmand du jour at February 16, 2024 05:24 PM (MeG8a)

53 I'm thinking Hairyback Guy enjoys being raped by Orangeman Bad.

There's an ethereal vibe that overtakes the surrounding area when the two of them lock gazes.

Posted by: Dr. Bone at February 16, 2024 05:24 PM (EEgXH)

54 Posted by: Martini Farmer at February 16, 2024 05:22 PM (Q4IgG)

I kinda think the opposite happens. It makes people realize how much a scam America is as it currently is, and it is a scam, and that Trump is being politically targeted.

Posted by: thathalfrican - The One at February 16, 2024 05:25 PM (6bKJR)

55 New Marx should be the new name of New York.
Posted by: Axeman at February 16, 2024 05:23 PM (krQz2)
----------
Karl Marx Stadt. I think that name's avaiable now.

Posted by: Captain Obvious, Laird o' the Sea, Radioactive Knight at February 16, 2024 05:25 PM (0gvpA)

56 Joe was apparently raging about the DOJ not doing enough to destroy Trump. This judge did take his orders.

Posted by: Northernlurker at February 16, 2024 05:25 PM (xcrUy)

57
New Marx, New Marx, it's hell in a state.
The crime is up, and the power is great.

Posted by: Axeman at February 16, 2024 05:25 PM (krQz2)

58 42 you don’t overvalue your property in a loan proceeding the bank hires someone to appraise it and let you know. You say what you want in a loan document but the bank is gonna do due diligence.

Posted by: Jaimo at February 16, 2024 05:25 PM (sOA7y)

59 Trump wins the presidency. Republicans keep the House and gain the senate. Together, they remove every last federal taxpayer dollar from NY.

*wakes up from nap*

Posted by: Marcus T at February 16, 2024 05:25 PM (ElRvh)

60 Posted by: gourmand du jour at February 16, 2024 05:24 PM (MeG8a)

America is a scam exhibit #462964

Posted by: thathalfrican - The One at February 16, 2024 05:26 PM (6bKJR)

61 49 This is like being car jacked for a 1944 Willys jeep.
Posted by: Dr. Bone

Did Willys make an automatic transmission model?
Posted by: SFGoth

You can’t carjack stick?

Posted by: Kratwurst at February 16, 2024 05:26 PM (nIRE6)

62 Speaking of carjackings, it would be cool to trick out a car so that a net-connected camera in the steering was activated and broadcast the jacker's mug to the world while he (or she) was driving. Even better if there were some way to rig a restraint to prevent the jacker from fleeing.

Posted by: SFGoth at February 16, 2024 05:26 PM (KAi1n)

63 24 We are watching Cicero in live time. He has to run, and win simply to stay off the wolves.
Posted by: Nick in Tallahassee at February 16, 2024 05:16 PM (C4WAQ)

———

I think it is safe to say that the persecution of Trump is the greatest in American history and probably rivals any individual persecution in the English speaking world.

The total perversion of law is the real kicker here.

Posted by: MAGA_Ken at February 16, 2024 05:26 PM (++4z6)

64 Congress passing an "Orange Man Bad" law that declares that Trump must be in prison for life, can never hold office and can never have any money ever would do less damage long-term than these BS court cases.

Posted by: pookysgirl, literally wedded to insanity at February 16, 2024 05:26 PM (dtlDP)

65 You can’t carjack stick?
Posted by: Kratwurst

Unless you know how to get it out of first gear, you're not going terribly far or very fast.

Posted by: SFGoth at February 16, 2024 05:27 PM (KAi1n)

66 Posted by: MAGA_Ken at February 16, 2024 05:26 PM (++4z6)

What’s being done Trump is coming for all of us if we don’t win.

Posted by: thathalfrican - The One at February 16, 2024 05:27 PM (6bKJR)

67 Two things can happen.

1. Nothing will happen.

2. Something will happen.

Posted by: fd at February 16, 2024 05:27 PM (vFG9F)

68 That judge just looks like dictionary definition of an imbecile.

Posted by: Angzarr the Cromulent at February 16, 2024 05:28 PM (XMwZJ)

69 Not everyone up-estimates the value of their holdings when applying for a loan. I actually substantially under-value them. Why? Because when I’m negotiating the price of the asset to be paid for by the loan (say a car), I want to be able to feign shock at the pricing. “What?? $x per month for the 6000SUX?? That’s much higher than I expected!” The higher your income or net worth is, the harder that is to do.

Posted by: Elric Blade at February 16, 2024 05:28 PM (9g2E2)

70 Even better if there were some way to rig a restraint to prevent the jacker from fleeing.
Posted by: SFGoth at February 16, 2024 05:26 PM (KAi1n)
---
Remote control to drive your robber off a bridge.

But then, you're polluting the river.

Posted by: Axeman at February 16, 2024 05:28 PM (krQz2)

71 One of my legal counsels who works on the credit side just texted me "they just destroyed the entire basis for almost every appraisal done on the state of NY and turned it into a criminal act".

Posted by: Marcus T at February 16, 2024 05:29 PM (ElRvh)

72 Any banker or lawyer who does real estate should see right through this BS. From what I understand, they give the loan applicant's property assessment about the same weight as a wet fart. It has zero bearing on how much they're going to loan. The bank does an independent assessment. Anyone who doesn't do their own assessment is either a very very small time operator, or they'll be out of business after a deal or two.

Posted by: bonhomme at February 16, 2024 05:29 PM (6OrcJ)

73 >It goes without saying this is all going to be reversed on appeal
----

really
a higher NY court is going to give Trump a break
can I buy some pot from you?

Posted by: Don Black at February 16, 2024 05:29 PM (geLO8)

74 Will Trump have to post the judgement as a bond during appeal?

Posted by: G'rump928(c) at February 16, 2024 05:29 PM (aD39U)

75 An automatic willy, you say?

Posted by: Little Petey Buttplug at February 16, 2024 05:29 PM (Zz86T)

76 64 Congress passing an "Orange Man Bad" law that declares that Trump must be in prison for life, can never hold office and can never have any money ever would do less damage long-term than these BS court cases.
Posted by: pookysgirl, literally wedded to insanity at February 16, 2024 05:26 PM (dtlDP)

——-

Agree. I think an actual bill of attainder would be less damaging to the rule of law than what is going on.

Perhaps something the Founders didn’t think through:

Posted by: MAGA_Ken at February 16, 2024 05:29 PM (++4z6)

77 There's an angry black woman behind this one too, right?

Posted by: fd at February 16, 2024 05:30 PM (vFG9F)

78 I can think of two separate entities that would have documentation of the property's value. One would be the insurance company(s), which would have done a property value estimate in order to set premiums. The other would have been the property tax assessor, which would have done the same to determine owed property taxes.

Were these items not submitted into evidence?

Posted by: Orson at February 16, 2024 05:30 PM (dIske)

79 really
a higher NY court is going to give Trump a break

That's what I wondered

Posted by: It's me donna at February 16, 2024 05:30 PM (Akjoo)

80 Congress passing an "Orange Man Bad" law that declares that Trump must be in prison for life, can never hold office and can never have any money ever would do less damage long-term than these BS court cases.
Posted by: pookysgirl, literally wedded to insanity at February 16, 2024 05:26 PM (dtlDP)
---
There would be a clause that it is now treason to spread the misinformation that this bill is a Bill of Attainder, because it's NOT--because WE SAID SO!

Posted by: Axeman at February 16, 2024 05:30 PM (krQz2)

81 I think it is safe to say that the persecution of Trump is the greatest in American history and probably rivals any individual persecution in the English speaking world.
----------
It's only a matter of time before they go full Earl of Strafford on him.

Posted by: Captain Obvious, Laird o' the Sea, Radioactive Knight at February 16, 2024 05:30 PM (0gvpA)

82 > Speaking of carjackings, it would be cool to trick out a car so that a net-connected camera in the steering was activated and broadcast the jacker's mug to the world while he (or she) was driving. Even better if there were some way to rig a restraint to prevent the jacker from fleeing.

Spear gun in the steering column triggered via cell phone.

Posted by: bonhomme at February 16, 2024 05:30 PM (6OrcJ)

83 Why would any developer or company have assets, stores, hotels or any kind of business in the Empire Strikes Back state of NY?

Get out. Trump was first.

You are next.

Posted by: Czech Chick at February 16, 2024 05:30 PM (I6NNh)

84 >Two things can happen.

1. Nothing will happen.

2. Something will happen.

Posted by: fd

that's 3 things
1. 2 things
2. no thing
3. some thing

Posted by: Don Black at February 16, 2024 05:30 PM (geLO8)

85 Will Trump have to post the judgement as a bond during appeal?
Posted by: G'rump928(c

Yup

Posted by: BruceWayne at February 16, 2024 05:30 PM (MGB5H)

86 Posted by: fd at February 16, 2024 05:30 PM (vFG9F)
Letitia James says “if it’s a g it’s a g”

Channeling her inner Fani Willis.

Posted by: thathalfrican - The One at February 16, 2024 05:31 PM (6bKJR)

87 Now you will see the power of the fully operational Death Government!

Posted by: AlaBAMA at February 16, 2024 05:31 PM (3CVIc)

88 Hey guys, Navalny died!

Posted by: Trump poisoned my cat at February 16, 2024 05:31 PM (Pa9Qi)

89 "A bank does an appraisal on any property they are loaning money on. Trump doesn’t decide this. The bank does."

That's kinda the whole point. In a typical loan, the bank engages an appraiser, not the property owner. The bank may do their own appraisal by their internal staff, or if they engage an independent appraiser, the bank reviews the appraisal.

Has anyone reviewed the evidence presented in the trial as to the property values? A high level appraisal and accounting team could sort this out. It's complex, but it ain't rocket science either.

Also, if James (or Trump) hired hacks, the hacks normally have reputations as hacks and their work may look great but can be readily picked apart by objective professionals.

Posted by: RM at February 16, 2024 05:31 PM (urbih)

90 > really
a higher NY court is going to give Trump a break
can I buy some pot from you?

Erdogan already tried to dissolve Trump's business licenses. An appeals court slapped that down, telling Erdogan he can't do that.

Posted by: bonhomme at February 16, 2024 05:31 PM (6OrcJ)

91 There's an angry black woman behind this one too, right?
Posted by: fd at

HOW DARE YOU?!
-"tish" james

Posted by: BruceWayne at February 16, 2024 05:32 PM (MGB5H)

92 Were these items not submitted into evidence?
Posted by: Orson at February 16, 2024 05:30 PM (dIske)

I'm not sure he was allowed to present evidence.

Posted by: G'rump928(c) at February 16, 2024 05:32 PM (aD39U)

93 46 Give NYC to the Gazans, as the Palistinian second state. They wouldn’t have much to do to lower it to third-world shithole status. They’d be there in no time.

F**k NYC.

Be my guest. It's been a third-world shithole for years. But you'll have to first get it away from the Haitians, Jamaicans, Dominicans, and Puerto Ricans who presently own it.

Posted by: Marcus Gravey at February 16, 2024 05:32 PM (TIizU)

94 I'm unclear how you could read NY State law, specifically the statutes cited, and not realize how wrong and dangerous this is. It undermines the credulity of every jurist in the state and goes against decade of judicial practice, case law and financial industry practices.

Posted by: Marcus T at February 16, 2024 05:32 PM (ElRvh)

95 This is all about hamstringing Trump... casting doubt on his ability to actually run, and potentially win the "election." It puts doubt in people's eyes about his viability.

There will be more.... because of course there will.
Posted by: Martini Farmer at February 16, 2024 05:22 PM (Q4IgG)

I bet his poll numbers will rise a few points after this. I think many are seeing exactly what's happening here.

Posted by: Dr. Pork Chops & Bacons at February 16, 2024 05:33 PM (BdMk6)

96 "that's 3 things
1. 2 things
2. no thing
3. some thing
Posted by: Don Black"

Well, nothing is no thing, so we are back to two things.

Posted by: fd at February 16, 2024 05:33 PM (vFG9F)

97 Only in NY could there be a victimless crime, where no injury, nor unlawful act was committed according to statute and the judge still found the defendant guilty.

Pretty much any business in NY was just put on notice they can be at the Democrats discretion, lawlessly, and unconstitutionally have their property taken away without cause.

Every business incorporated in NY should leave.

Posted by: Marcus T at February 16, 2024 05:22 PM (ElRvh)
==
Yes, it will be thrown out. But the warning to NY businesses will not be, and it will further destroy NY's economy. Dumb move. But when you're a leftist it seems to be all you know how to do.

Posted by: Black JEM at February 16, 2024 05:33 PM (GZYu7)

98 Our Coliseum. Lots of room.

Posted by: L - They don't have to outrun and bear, they only have to outrun us - for now at February 16, 2024 05:33 PM (GshMh)

99 Has anyone reviewed the evidence presented in the trial as to the property values? A high level appraisal and accounting team could sort this out. It's complex, but it ain't rocket science either.

Also, if James (or Trump) hired hacks, the hacks normally have reputations as hacks and their work may look great but can be readily picked apart by objective professionals.
Posted by: RM at

Trump wasn't allowed to present a defense.

Posted by: BruceWayne at February 16, 2024 05:33 PM (MGB5H)

100 I've no doubt there's a segment of the population that sees the persecution of Trump as politically motivated.

Some see it and rebel.
Some see it and don't care.
Some see it and want more.

What's missing is a segment that are willing to go to the proverbial mat, kinetically speaking, to make an effort to stem the tide. IMO we've been there for a while.

Posted by: Martini Farmer at February 16, 2024 05:33 PM (Q4IgG)

101 > Has anyone reviewed the evidence presented in the trial as to the property values? A high level appraisal and accounting team could sort this out. It's complex, but it ain't rocket science either.

I wasn't watching closely, but I believe Erdogan shut down any discussion of this. He basically said it's worth what we say it's worth. I think there was also a tax assessment, and there is some law about how tax assessments are only allowed to go up X percent every year. Trump bought it relatively cheaply a while back and its real world value went up faster than its tax value.

Posted by: bonhomme at February 16, 2024 05:34 PM (6OrcJ)

102 I am worried about you as Trump is apparently raping you non-stop everywhere. Can't you get multimillion justice for vague allegations of misconduct because Orange Man Bad?
Mebbe Morgan and Morgan will take you on as a client and Reid Hoffman pay for your legal costs.
Posted by: whig at February 16, 2024 05:17 PM (9FrDg)

Hahahaha...yup. President Trump won't leave me alone.

It's my money and I want it now!

Posted by: Hairyback Guy at February 16, 2024 05:34 PM (R/m4+)

103 There would be a clause that it is now treason to spread the misinformation that this bill is a Bill of Attainder, because it's NOT--because WE SAID SO!

Posted by: Axeman at February 16, 2024 05:30 PM (krQz2)

Ah, thank you for correcting my oversight!

Posted by: pookysgirl, clearly not cynical enough at February 16, 2024 05:34 PM (dtlDP)

104 Property valuations aren't static, they go up or down. The prosecutors got elected saying they would "get Trump". Trump wasn't even allowed a defense, and for this alone the case should be tossed out.
And maybe it will but meanwhile it will cost Trump untold millions.

Posted by: gourmand du jour at February 16, 2024 05:35 PM (MeG8a)

105 Spear gun in the steering column triggered via cell phone.
Posted by: bonhomme

I really hope you don’t butt dial that too early.

Posted by: Kratwurst at February 16, 2024 05:35 PM (nIRE6)

106 I'm unclear how you could read NY State law, specifically the statutes cited, and not realize how wrong and dangerous this is. It undermines the credulity of every jurist in the state and goes against decade of judicial practice, case law and financial industry practices.
Posted by: Marcus T at February 16, 2024 05:32 PM (ElRvh)
---
Progressives literally believe that "unintended consequences" was simply a pounce made up by conservatives.

"Oh, sure! It's easy to say 'unintended consequences' *now*!"

Posted by: Axeman at February 16, 2024 05:35 PM (krQz2)

107 Just like Delaware, who makes a ton of dough off incorporation, going against case law to take out Elon Musk. They are destroying the golden goose for their politics. Nobody is ever coming back to NY. And corporations are now heading for the exit in Delaware.

Posted by: Marcus T at February 16, 2024 05:35 PM (ElRvh)

108 8 Drumpf is done done done! Omfg yes!!! ROFL!
Posted by: Sid

Be a good girl and go have your dinner at the student union.

Posted by: L - They don't have to outrun and bear, they only have to outrun us - for now at February 16, 2024 05:36 PM (GshMh)

109 Posted by: Marcus T at February 16, 2024 05:32 PM (ElRvh)

It doesn’t matter. These people seem to be willing to upend the chess board and destroy everything to stop this man.

It’s quite incredible.

Posted by: thathalfrican - The One at February 16, 2024 05:36 PM (6bKJR)

110
They're coming for you and me... but Trump is in the way.

Posted by: Divide by Zero at February 16, 2024 05:36 PM (nIvob)

111 And corporations are now heading for the exit in Delaware.
Posted by: Marcus T at February 16, 2024 05:35 PM (ElRvh)

and Exit Tax is next then.

Posted by: G'rump928(c) at February 16, 2024 05:36 PM (aD39U)

112 Dear Sid,

People who use “Drumpf” sound ludicrous. It sounds like a bad take off on a Tolkien novel withbthe trools and the drumpfs.

P.S if your god “effed” a human being it must have been an incredibly stupid one to produce you.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at February 16, 2024 05:37 PM (K0cIK)

113 It doesn’t matter. These people seem to be willing to upend the chess board and destroy everything to stop this man.

It’s quite incredible.
Posted by: thathalfrican - The One at February 16, 2024 05:36 PM (6bKJR)
----------
They crashed the world economy to do it.

Posted by: Captain Obvious, Laird o' the Sea, Radioactive Knight at February 16, 2024 05:37 PM (0gvpA)

114 It doesn’t matter. These people seem to be willing to upend the chess board and destroy everything to stop this man.

It’s quite incredible.
Posted by: thathalfrican - The One at February 16, 2024 05:36 PM (6bKJR)

Like playing chess with a pigeon. They just knock over pieces and shit on the board.

Posted by: G'rump928(c) at February 16, 2024 05:37 PM (aD39U)

115 YOU don't want to see the shirtless pix of the Judge that he proudly put on his alumni newsletter. Stuff of children's nightmares.
Posted by: whig

Unfortunately I saw it. Had Pedo written all over his bony, pasty white body.

Posted by: Cheri at February 16, 2024 05:37 PM (oiNtH)

116 >>Watch the Mike Benz interview by Tucker on Twitter. It's everything you suspected was going on times a million.

That's what I've been saying.

Posted by: JackStraw at February 16, 2024 05:38 PM (LkLld)

117 I don't understand this. Who was damaged and what were their damages? Isn't this an ex post facto law? I am not a lawyer and lawyers are very confusing.

Posted by: CaliGirl at February 16, 2024 05:38 PM (MrtV1)

118 Posted by: Captain Obvious, Laird o' the Sea, Radioactive Knight at February 16, 2024 05:37 PM (0gvpA)

Yes. This too. Although I think there were larger more nefarious purposes afoot as well.

Posted by: thathalfrican - The One at February 16, 2024 05:38 PM (6bKJR)

119 "Trump wasn't allowed to present a defense."

I heard this but 40 expert witnesses? All on the prosecution side and none by Trump?

I don't know enough about the details, but aside from the personal vendetta aspects, something looks like it stinks to low hell.

Posted by: RM at February 16, 2024 05:38 PM (urbih)

120 Posted by: G'rump928(c) at February 16, 2024 05:37 PM (aD39U)
Stolen

Posted by: thathalfrican - The One at February 16, 2024 05:39 PM (6bKJR)

121 Has anyone reviewed the evidence presented in the trial as to the property values? A high level appraisal and accounting team could sort this out. It's complex, but it ain't rocket science either.

Also, if James (or Trump) hired hacks, the hacks normally have reputations as hacks and their work may look great but can be readily picked apart by objective professionals.
Posted by: RM
------
The judge did just that in the case. He ruled Mar a Lago at $18 million dollars because he said so.

Posted by: whig at February 16, 2024 05:39 PM (9FrDg)

122 Posted by: RM at February 16, 2024 05:38 PM (urbih)

It’s not a new or unique tactic. They did it to Alex Jones.

Posted by: thathalfrican - The One at February 16, 2024 05:39 PM (6bKJR)

123 Stolen

Stolen from another Moron first.

We're like a fucking Hippie Commune here.

Posted by: G'rump928(c) at February 16, 2024 05:39 PM (aD39U)

124
I heard this but 40 expert witnesses? All on the prosecution side and none by Trump?

Some of them said They had no problem with Trump and would loan again... Some major banks if I recall... Didn't matter

Posted by: It's me donna at February 16, 2024 05:40 PM (Akjoo)

125 27 The Right self-owns quite a it with the childish belief that the favor will be returned, but this is a case that will have repercussions. Opening business in New York just became an own goal.
Posted by: Trump poisoned my cat at February 16, 2024 05:17 PM (Pa9Qi)

No rational person would willingly move to or do business in New York now that the state has demonstrated its taste for capricious lawfare.

Posted by: CppThis at February 16, 2024 05:40 PM (PZvjL)

126 Trump's banks testified they suffered no harm and in fact made money off of these Trump loans. Should have been a summary judgment in favor of the defendant.

Posted by: Naples Yellow at February 16, 2024 05:40 PM (w6AZl)

127 We're like a fucking Hippie Commune here.
Posted by: G'rump928(c) at February 16, 2024 05:39 PM (aD39U)
------------
Don't bogart that joint!

Posted by: Captain Obvious, Laird o' the Sea, Radioactive Knight at February 16, 2024 05:40 PM (0gvpA)

128 There was a point in my learning that I didn't understand why when societies failed, people would go after the patricians first to satiate their anger. It's no longer a mystery to me.

Posted by: Marcus T at February 16, 2024 05:40 PM (ElRvh)

129 @107:

Yes. I don't know if the emotionally incontinenc
t leftwing children can see second order effects but the economic blowback will be crippling. That's probably good although innocents will suffer

Posted by: Trump poisoned my cat at February 16, 2024 05:40 PM (Pa9Qi)

130 New York City and state are run by Caribbean communists. I can't think of a worse combination for government management skills than a Caribbean communist. Seriously. Who's worse? Gazans would be a step up.

Posted by: Marcus Gravey at February 16, 2024 05:41 PM (TIizU)

131 Posted by: G'rump928(c) at February 16, 2024 05:39 PM (aD39U)

Hey. If you’re on the right and mentally survived covid and not some form of a hippie? I have questions.

Posted by: thathalfrican - The One at February 16, 2024 05:41 PM (6bKJR)

132 Biden is asking for a tour of those tunnels he's heard so much about.

Posted by: Northernlurker at February 16, 2024 05:41 PM (xcrUy)

133 >>Some of them said They had no problem with Trump and would loan again... Some major banks if I recall... Didn't matter

Deutsche Bank was one of them and they did lend him money again.

It's going to be appeal and tossed. The whole point of this trial was to hamstring Trump's campaign and excite the smooth brains like Sid.

Posted by: JackStraw at February 16, 2024 05:42 PM (LkLld)

134 Were these items not submitted into evidence?

Posted by: Orson

Trump was not allowed to present a defense.

Posted by: Thomas Paine at February 16, 2024 05:42 PM (lTGtQ)

135 Leticia wanted higher fines and total banishment from business in NY against Trump

Posted by: It's me donna at February 16, 2024 05:42 PM (Akjoo)

136 Soviet Judge Demands Trump Pay $355 Million for the Non-Crime of Not Defrauding Anybody

You can't buy campaign ads this good. Trump is going to win New York.

Posted by: t-bird at February 16, 2024 05:42 PM (T6h83)

137 Lawfare in the 21st century is going to destroy case law.

Posted by: AlaBAMA at February 16, 2024 05:42 PM (3CVIc)

138 117 I don't understand this. Who was damaged and what were their damages? Isn't this an ex post facto law? I am not a lawyer and lawyers are very confusing.
Posted by: CaliGirl
-------
Ex post facto only applies to criminal trials not civil as far as the US Constitution. Dunno about New York's constitution.

But, it does violate the US Constitution in several matters---a) proportionality to actual damages, see BMW v. Gore, b) due process---a taking such as establishing property values generally require a jury trial, and that the judge precluded and limited any defense after announcing before hearing any testimony that Trump Inc was guilty.

Posted by: whig at February 16, 2024 05:43 PM (9FrDg)

139 I have questions.
Posted by: thathalfrican - The One at February 16, 2024 05:41 PM (6bKJR)

Que?

Posted by: G'rump928(c) at February 16, 2024 05:43 PM (aD39U)

140 Is there some black man brave enough to roger Leticia too so we can see her whore ass exposed as the AABW she is?

Posted by: fd at February 16, 2024 05:43 PM (vFG9F)

141 Posted by: Marcus T at February 16, 2024 05:40 PM (ElRvh)

I mean, when you realize that they’ve lied to you about….pretty much everything, devalued your currency while enriching themselves and their scumbag associates and watched the society turn into a degenerate pile of piss and stop listening to the will of the people…..seems a natural course

Posted by: thathalfrican - The One at February 16, 2024 05:43 PM (6bKJR)

142 137 Lawfare in the 21st century is going to destroy case law.
Posted by: AlaBAMA
---------
Remember that Lenin was a lawyer and it still a hero to quite a few lawyers and law students.

Posted by: whig at February 16, 2024 05:43 PM (9FrDg)

143 One of my legal counsels who works on the credit side just texted me "they just destroyed the entire basis for almost every appraisal done on the state of NY and turned it into a criminal act".
Posted by: Marcus T

Only if they don't like you. Of course, they liked Beria for quite awhile.

Posted by: SFGoth at February 16, 2024 05:43 PM (KAi1n)

144 When the music stops, it’s gonna be oh so totally fucking biblical.

I can’t wait - because to a man, they cannot ever, ever envision such a thing happening to them.

Posted by: Common Tater at February 16, 2024 05:44 PM (QC/Rl)

145 Posted by: G'rump928(c) at February 16, 2024 05:43 PM (aD39U)

I’m just saying after covid it turned me into a strange hyper right wing hippie.

Posted by: thathalfrican - The One at February 16, 2024 05:44 PM (6bKJR)

146 Remember that Lenin was a lawyer and it still a hero to quite a few lawyers and law students.
Posted by: whig

Lenin had cool facial hair, much better than that Charlie Chaplan-looking fellow.

Posted by: SFGoth at February 16, 2024 05:45 PM (KAi1n)

147 Don't bogart that joint!
Posted by: Captain Obvious, Laird o' the Sea, Radioactive Knight at February 16, 2024 05:40 PM (0gvpA)

Roll another one,
Just like the other one.
You been holding onto it,
And I sure would like a hit!
Don't bogart that joint my friend,
Pass it over to me!
Don't bogart that joint my friend,
Pass it over to me!...

Posted by: Little Feat at February 16, 2024 05:45 PM (R/m4+)

148 It's just not safe in NY on any level. There really is no future there except misery and control.

Posted by: Marcus T at February 16, 2024 05:45 PM (ElRvh)

149 The Electoral College probably has a greater description in the Constitution and Federalist papers than any other single concept.

Still there are lofos in America wondering how it is that the SCOTUS hasn't ruled against it. And think that the SCOTUS can just decide against it.

That's why there are certain Americans that are only fit for a tyrant.

Posted by: Axeman at February 16, 2024 05:45 PM (krQz2)

150 Unfortunately I saw it. Had Pedo written all over his bony, pasty white body.
Posted by: Cheri
---------
Nasty creature reminiscent of a troll or the child snatcher in Chitty Chitty Bang Bang movie.

Posted by: whig at February 16, 2024 05:45 PM (9FrDg)

151 "Lenin had cool facial hair, much better than that Charlie Chaplan-looking fellow.
Posted by: SFGoth"

?

Ringo?

Posted by: fd at February 16, 2024 05:45 PM (vFG9F)

152 This money shoulds go to helping Children of Coler hurt by Trump's policies...

Posted by: Mary Clogginstein from Brattleboro, Vt at February 16, 2024 05:45 PM (Mig/N)

153 I’m just saying after covid it turned me into a strange hyper right wing hippie.
Posted by: thathalfrican - The One at February 16, 2024 05:44 PM (6bKJR)

I was always a right wing hippie. Maybe that's why I survived Covid without even noticing I had it.

Good immune system from all those years of hippie filth.

Posted by: G'rump928(c) at February 16, 2024 05:46 PM (aD39U)

154 There was a point in my learning that I didn't understand why when societies failed, people would go after the patricians first to satiate their anger. It's no longer a mystery to me.
Posted by: Marcus T at February 16, 2024 05:40 PM (ElRvh)

I understand the French Revolution and 1861 much better now.

Posted by: Dr. Pork Chops & Bacons at February 16, 2024 05:46 PM (BdMk6)

155 I especially liked the part where the judge found him guilty without any evidence and then held a trial on the damages part only.

And then found that a third of a billion is reasonable in punitive damages where no one bank lost a single penny and every bank involved said they would-- even in hindsight-- do the exact same deal on the exact same terms.

But, because the judge found that the banks _ could have_ obtained better terms-- even though they admitted they would not have--there were .... damages.

Posted by: People's Hippo Voice at February 16, 2024 05:46 PM (cSaKW)

156 143 One of my legal counsels who works on the credit side just texted me "they just destroyed the entire basis for almost every appraisal done on the state of NY and turned it into a criminal act".
Posted by: Marcus T

Only if they don't like you. Of course, they liked Beria for quite awhile.

Posted by: SFGoth
------------------------

What must one do to stay friends, comrade?

Posted by: Braenyard at February 16, 2024 05:46 PM (kiFJn)

157 It's just not safe in NY on any level. There really is no future there except misery and control.
Posted by: Marcus T at February 16, 2024 05:45 PM (ElRvh)
---
Misinformation, citizen. This is *joy* and *happiness*.

Your agonizer, please.

Posted by: Sacred Democratic Institutions at February 16, 2024 05:46 PM (krQz2)

158 Posted by: G'rump928(c) at February 16, 2024 05:46 PM (aD39U)

Lmao

Posted by: thathalfrican - The One at February 16, 2024 05:46 PM (6bKJR)

159 140 Is there some black man brave enough to roger Leticia too so we can see her whore ass exposed as the AABW she is?
Posted by: fd
=======
It's coming. 'Stan' always breaks his tools.

Posted by: whig at February 16, 2024 05:47 PM (9FrDg)

160 Cracks me up when customers say they will sue this company over their internet service. Tells me that they haven't dealt with lawyers or courts. Judge in our eviction case over the dock wouldn't let us give a defense and kept me on the case even thought they said it wasn't my dock. I hate dealing with lawyers.

Posted by: Notsothoreau at February 16, 2024 05:47 PM (USTAS)

161
>>Watch the Mike Benz interview by Tucker on Twitter. It's everything you suspected was going on times a million.

That's what I've been saying.

Posted by: JackStraw at February 16, 2024 05:38 PM

Watched every minute. Benz can talk without notes or teleprompter forever just reciting fact after fact without taking a break. Final score in spoken moments I would guess is Tucker 3, Benz 102.

I wish there was a 'happy ending' to this morality play, but... you know... the cheat. Again.

Posted by: Divide by Zero at February 16, 2024 05:47 PM (nIvob)

162 Posted by: Dr. Pork Chops & Bacons at February 16, 2024 05:46 PM (BdMk6)

Sad but true

Posted by: thathalfrican - The One at February 16, 2024 05:47 PM (6bKJR)

163 Lady Justice has been screwed, blued. and tattooed.

Posted by: Cheri at February 16, 2024 05:47 PM (oiNtH)

164 @133
It's going to be appeal and tossed. The whole point of this trial was to hamstring Trump's campaign and excite the smooth brains like Sid.

--------

And find grounds to go after judges that might be impartial. You know any appeals judges that find in Trump's favor will be accused of being far-right partisan hack judges.

Posted by: junior at February 16, 2024 05:47 PM (erxmd)

165 This lawfare bullshit really took off when it succeeded against Palin.

Posted by: davidt at February 16, 2024 05:47 PM (SYTee)

166 Soviet Judge Demands Trump Pay $355 Million for the Non-Crime of Not Defrauding Anybody

You can't buy campaign ads this good. Trump is going to win New York.
Posted by: t-bird at February 16, 2024 05:42 PM (T6h83)
---
Eh. I am in the "not likely" camp. The fookers are really close to offing Trump family members at this point. Nothing is off limits to the junta.

I really wish I could be more optimistic. But nothing I have seen in the past decade makes me think things will get better.

Posted by: Pug Mahon, Not Ready for the Cart at February 16, 2024 05:47 PM (T/Lqj)

167 >Trump was not allowed to present a defense.
----

people keep saying this
I don't understand

Posted by: Don Black at February 16, 2024 05:47 PM (geLO8)

168 155 I especially liked the part where the judge found him guilty without any evidence and then held a trial on the damages part only.

And then found that a third of a billion is reasonable in punitive damages where no one bank lost a single penny and every bank involved said they would-- even in hindsight-- do the exact same deal on the exact same terms.

But, because the judge found that the banks _ could have_ obtained better terms-- even though they admitted they would not have--there were .... damages.

Posted by: People's Hippo Voice
------------------

And while this expose' has been going on Trump borrowed money from CA and other banks.

Posted by: Braenyard at February 16, 2024 05:48 PM (kiFJn)

169 Posted by: Don Black at February 16, 2024 05:47 PM (geLO

*Alex Jones nods sadly*

Posted by: thathalfrican - The One at February 16, 2024 05:49 PM (6bKJR)

170 167 >Trump was not allowed to present a defense.
----

people keep saying this
I don't understand
Posted by: Don Black at February 16, 2024 05:47 PM (geLO

I think his Lawyers were allowed to cross examine but weren't allowed to bring their own witnesses ?

Posted by: It's me donna at February 16, 2024 05:49 PM (Akjoo)

171 Trump is only the 9th or 10th biggest real estate mogul in NYC. I wonder what the other 8 or 9 moguls are thinking.

Posted by: Naples Yellow at February 16, 2024 05:49 PM (w6AZl)

172 Hey, my brother made me watch Once Upon a Time in Hollywood while I was caring for my ancient parents out of state. I stole borrowed it a long time ago but just never got around to watching it.

Quick review - I liked it. It amused me. It was really long but bearable, like Gone with the Wind.

Posted by: G'rump928(c) at February 16, 2024 05:49 PM (aD39U)

173 DumbAss also ruled that he couldn't borrow any money from NY banks. ---- Like he would want to.

Posted by: Braenyard at February 16, 2024 05:49 PM (kiFJn)

174 We are now Soviet Russia inly with shithole subways...
Well, Trump would have been shot by now. Buts it's getting there.

Posted by: Not this shit again at February 16, 2024 05:50 PM (+3lgn)

175 Lenin was a political genius, for real, evil tho' he was thru and thru. And his techniques are being used to great advantage this very day. Unfortunately we are again first hand witness to them. Including this trial.

Posted by: gourmand du jour at February 16, 2024 05:50 PM (MeG8a)

176 After Bruen, the NY Legislature and the governor basically gave SCOTUS the finger. They are still crafting unconstitutional 2A legislation to this day. Now they've undermined the entire civil side of the courts and turned it into Robespierre's Committee of Public Safety.

Posted by: Marcus T at February 16, 2024 05:50 PM (ElRvh)

177 >>I wish there was a 'happy ending' to this morality play, but... you know... the cheat. Again.

You can't beat what you don't understand. If we are going to beat them and I think we can the first step is for everyone to know what we are fighting.

I've been following Benz on Twitter for a while and he has a more clear of the entire structure we are up against than anyone I've heard. But his interview with Tucker put it all together.

Posted by: JackStraw at February 16, 2024 05:50 PM (LkLld)

178 117 I don't understand this. Who was damaged and what were their damages? Isn't this an ex post facto law? I am not a lawyer and lawyers are very confusing.

Posted by: CaliGirl at February 16, 2024 05:38 PM (MrtV1)

The applicable law and the evidence cited by the prosecution and the judge in this civil case are all the same: OrangeManBad.

Posted by: Gref at February 16, 2024 05:50 PM (5fDan)

179 >>people keep saying this
>>I don't understand

Summary Judgement.

Calvinball Rules allow for just about anything you can dream up, really.

Posted by: garrett at February 16, 2024 05:50 PM (zOR5N)

180 Remember that Lenin was a lawyer and it still a hero to quite a few lawyers and law students.

Posted by: whig at February 16, 2024 05:43 PM (9FrDg)
---
New appreciation for Dick the Butcher from Henry VI?

Posted by: Axeman at February 16, 2024 05:50 PM (krQz2)

181 171 Trump is only the 9th or 10th biggest real estate mogul in NYC. I wonder what the other 8 or 9 moguls are thinking.
Posted by: Naples Yellow at February 16, 2024 05:49 PM (w6AZl)

That they're glad their name isn't Trump

Posted by: It's me donna at February 16, 2024 05:50 PM (Akjoo)

182 b) due process---a taking such as establishing property values generally require a jury trial, and that the judge precluded and limited any defense after announcing before hearing any testimony that Trump Inc was guilty.
Posted by: whig

I don't think that is true. You are generally only entitled to a jury if the claim against you was cognizable by jury trial when the Constitution was enacted. New statutes that are essentially "equitable" (a broad term) do not entitle defendants to juries. California has a similar statute, Business & Professions Code sec. 17200. No jury. The BMW v. Gore case you cited is interesting where it refers to "civil penalties authorized or imposed in comparable cases" - of course there aren't any.

Posted by: SFGoth at February 16, 2024 05:51 PM (KAi1n)

183 >> I don't understand this. Who was damaged

The Rule of Law.

Posted by: garrett at February 16, 2024 05:51 PM (zOR5N)

184 I don't understand this. Who was damaged and what were their damages? Isn't this an ex post facto law? I am not a lawyer and lawyers are very confusing.

Posted by: CaliGirl at February 16, 2024 05:38 PM (MrtV1)
---
We are all damaged by the badness of Orangeman, you see.

Posted by: Axeman at February 16, 2024 05:51 PM (krQz2)

185 Posted by: Naples Yellow at February 16, 2024 05:49 PM (w6AZl)

Stay on the right side of power?

Posted by: thathalfrican - The One at February 16, 2024 05:51 PM (6bKJR)

186 Trump is only the 9th or 10th biggest real estate mogul in NYC. I wonder what the other 8 or 9 moguls are thinking.

They're thinking how to snitch on the others.

Posted by: t-bird at February 16, 2024 05:51 PM (T6h83)

187 I live in the MidHudson. NY has been overrun by leftist lions, including my area which has had thousands of NYC leftists who all think alike. They have no sense of history and no thoughts as to bad outcomes. I think the appellate division or the NYS Court of Appeals will over turn most of not all of this crap, even though they are left leaning

Posted by: Smell the Glove at February 16, 2024 05:51 PM (O8bOp)

188 167 >Trump was not allowed to present a defense.
----

people keep saying this
I don't understand
Posted by: Don Black
------
Judge announced he was guilty first and the 'trial' was to determine how much the Trumps shall pay.

Weird little court in NY law for consumer fraud that is intended to give the little guy a venue against big financial companies so no jury trial was allowed. Kind of like binding arbitration. Judge, Dems, and lawfare project decided to make it into a way to punish Trump.

Posted by: whig at February 16, 2024 05:51 PM (9FrDg)

189 I hope I live to see these commie frauds frogmarched into court, convicted, and incarcerated.

Posted by: setnaffa at February 16, 2024 05:52 PM (jeNdr)

190 what.
a.
surprise.

/s

Posted by: sock_rat_eez - these lying bastardi e stronzi have been lying to us for decades at February 16, 2024 05:52 PM (QwWES)

191 They do it because they can.

Posted by: Mr Aspirin Factory, red heifer owner at February 16, 2024 05:52 PM (R4t5M)

192 I don't understand this. Who was damaged

The Rule of Law.
Posted by: garrett at February 16, 2024 05:51 PM (zOR5N)
---
Good thing for a Sacred Democratic Institutions that Law is our Sacred Democratic Institutions.

Posted by: Axeman at February 16, 2024 05:52 PM (krQz2)

193 Huh. The judge says Maralago is worth $18 million, but the Daily Mail say $325 million. That's some discount.

Posted by: fd at February 16, 2024 05:52 PM (vFG9F)

194 171 Trump is only the 9th or 10th biggest real estate mogul in NYC. I wonder what the other 8 or 9 moguls are thinking.

Posted by: Naples Yellow at February 16, 2024 05:49 PM

They are thinking, "How much do I need to donate to ActBlue to remain in good standing with the Stasi?"

Posted by: Pillage Idiot at February 16, 2024 05:52 PM (HlyYF)

195 Trump's crime is that he refuses to submit.

Seems similar to something something.

Posted by: davidt at February 16, 2024 05:52 PM (SYTee)

196 I hope I live to see these commie frauds frogmarched into court, convicted, and incarcerated.
Posted by: setnaffa at February 16, 2024 05:52 PM (jeNdr)

incinerated.

Posted by: Mr Aspirin Factory, red heifer owner at February 16, 2024 05:53 PM (R4t5M)

197 >Posted by: whig at February 16, 2024 05:51 PM (9FrDg)

thank you for that cogent and concise explanation

Posted by: Don Black at February 16, 2024 05:53 PM (geLO8)

198 Judge announced he was guilty first and the 'trial' was to determine how much the Trumps shall pay.

Posted by: whig at February 16, 2024 05:51 PM (9FrDg)
---
Judge was always a fan of Lewis Carroll.

Posted by: Axeman at February 16, 2024 05:53 PM (krQz2)

199 There's going to be some serious consequences as a result of our rectitude in not confronting the left on superior terms.

There were opportunities.

We rely on "elected" officials who don't give a shit about us.

Posted by: Martini Farmer at February 16, 2024 05:53 PM (Q4IgG)

200 Between the United States and Russia, one country's Junta just fantasizes about assassinating & attempting to execute their political opponents ... for now.

Posted by: ShainS -- The Demoralization Will Continue Until Morale Improves at February 16, 2024 05:53 PM (BbYkz)

201 >>I hope I live to see these commie frauds frogmarched into court, convicted, and incarcerated.

I just want to watch the swing in the breeze.

Hopefully the Cherry Blossoms are going concurrent to these people getting what they deserve.

Posted by: garrett at February 16, 2024 05:53 PM (zOR5N)

202 >> I don't understand this. Who was damaged

Also. Kafka.

They have to move his books out of the Fiction Section.

Posted by: garrett at February 16, 2024 05:54 PM (zOR5N)

203 Has anyone reviewed the evidence presented in the trial as to the property values? A high level appraisal and accounting team could sort this out. It's complex, but it ain't rocket science either.
---
IIRC, the judge found him guilty of undervaluing the property before trial.
That is, solely on the evidence the prosecution submitted.

So Trump was not permitted to put on ANYBevidence from ANY expert as to the market value.

Not even the most Soviet of trials was that crooked.

But, standard under Our Democracy.

Posted by: People's Hippo Voice at February 16, 2024 05:54 PM (cSaKW)

204 Our government has completely lost the legitimacy to govern.

Thanks, "progressives".

Posted by: Axeman at February 16, 2024 05:54 PM (krQz2)

205 Hopefully the Cherry Blossoms are going concurrent to these people getting what they deserve.
Posted by: garrett

Because pretty.

Posted by: Mr Aspirin Factory, red heifer owner at February 16, 2024 05:55 PM (R4t5M)

206 When Trump becomes president, I want him to appoint some hardline badass as AG, who will then go after all these pricks for deprivation of rights under color of law. And persecute the fuck out of them for years...

Posted by: Angzarr the Cromulent at February 16, 2024 05:55 PM (XMwZJ)

207 I hope that the left wing ladies living on the upper East side enjoy this while it lasts. I truly hope that next they enjoy the throngs of illegals who are committing crimes with no end in sight. Enjoy the armed robberies, home invasions, rapes, car jackings, murders and assorted mayhem gals. Maybe call your hero E. Jean Carroll and cry to her.

Posted by: Cheri at February 16, 2024 05:55 PM (oiNtH)

208 Any news on Joe in Ohio ?

Posted by: It's me donna at February 16, 2024 05:55 PM (Akjoo)

209
We are all damaged by the badness of Orangeman, you see.
Posted by: Axeman at February 16, 2024 05:51 PM (krQz2)

this is basically what all of these court cases are. Don't people realize they will be next if they are the next Emmanuel Goldenstein. Everyone is guilty of something I'm sure.

Posted by: CaliGirl at February 16, 2024 05:55 PM (MrtV1)

210 I think the appellate division or the NYS Court of Appeals will over turn most of not all of this crap, even though they are left leaning

==

OK

Posted by: runner at February 16, 2024 05:55 PM (V13WU)

211 I want this judge to do my property assessment for tax purposes. My house would be assessed at $129.

Posted by: Naples Yellow at February 16, 2024 05:55 PM (w6AZl)

212 Who was damaged? The taxpayers of New York who are paying for this farce.

Posted by: fd at February 16, 2024 05:55 PM (vFG9F)

213 >>Our government has completely lost the legitimacy to govern.

They did not like The Constitution as our Founding Document.

They are gonna hate the Declaration replacing it.

Posted by: garrett at February 16, 2024 05:55 PM (zOR5N)

214 I just want to watch the swing in the breeze.

Hopefully the Cherry Blossoms are going concurrent to these people getting what they deserve.
Posted by: garrett at February 16, 2024 05:53 PM (zOR5N)
---------
Per Vir Cotto, head on pike, warning to next ten generations, etc, etc.

Posted by: Captain Obvious, Laird o' the Sea, Radioactive Knight at February 16, 2024 05:55 PM (0gvpA)

215 I believe this is part of the government's reparations program. They played the games and made the commitments to save their own butts.

It's coming from the Ivies with history and massive endowments, the northern cities like NYC that prospered and could afford for the poor & immigrants to fight in the Civil War, the well-to-do families - who sit quite pretty (the B and the O for examples, even the Nans in Congress) though not in a billionaire or top 40 USA billionaire category - those who will never pay a dime of their own $ towards 'reparations" and THEY really should.

We're the nickel and dime people - creeping costs, fixed incomes, not in protected unions, etc. They'll take all they can but they need the big pots of money to at least look like they're committed and care, and because they can't admit there's really no money available for anything.

Trump and his elder kids are the first.

Posted by: L - They don't have to outrun and bear, they only have to outrun us - for now at February 16, 2024 05:56 PM (GshMh)

216 Any news on Joe in Ohio ?
Posted by: It's me donna at February 16, 2024 05:55 PM (Akjoo)

He promised the East Palestinians that he would pressure Israel for a ceasefire and a 2-state solution.

Posted by: G'rump928(c) at February 16, 2024 05:56 PM (aD39U)

217 @89

>>Has anyone reviewed the evidence presented in the trial as to the property values? A high level appraisal and accounting team could sort this out. It's complex, but it ain't rocket science either.

The judge on his own authority and without any input from banks, insurance companies or commercial real estate experts, decided what Trump holding should be valued at.

That's it.

That's the basis of the the verdict.

What is happening here is grotesque on many levels.

Animals, we are dealing with animals.

Posted by: Thomas Bender at February 16, 2024 05:56 PM (XV/Pl)

218 He promised the East Palestinians that he would pressure Israel for a ceasefire and a 2-state solution.
Posted by: G'rump928(c) at February 16, 2024 05:56 PM (aD39U)

LOL

Posted by: It's me donna at February 16, 2024 05:56 PM (Akjoo)

219 Joe's in E. Palestine now.
Posted by: pawn at February 16, 2024 05:10 PM (QB+5g)

Has he granted them statehood yet?

Posted by: Diogenes at February 16, 2024 05:57 PM (W/lyH)

220 I don't think that is true. You are generally only entitled to a jury if the claim against you was cognizable by jury trial when the Constitution was enacted. New statutes that are essentially "equitable" (a broad term) do not entitle defendants to juries.
---------------
Dealt with property valuation and quite arguably was a regulatory taking of money. That is why the 'fraud court' is a regulatory court rather than a general trial court.

Generally speaking, due process clause requires processes to be ramped up as the punishment increases and a judge announcing guilt before hearing any evidence in open court is probably not going to cut it if the NY Appellate courts don't cut Judge Engoron down to size first.

There are quite a few avenues to appeal but I don't know the specifics of NY law and am speaking more to federal constitutional law.

My equity background is more in rusty theory but even in equity, a judge cannot issue a canned decision before hearing testimony and limiting the hearing to damages only.

Posted by: whig at February 16, 2024 05:57 PM (9FrDg)

221 There isn't an honest court left in NY. I've we watched them work together since Bruen to stretch out the appeals and opinion process, as a deliberate scheme to keep their unconstitutional fiats in place. The governor has loaded the court with her lackeys, and it is no longer a court of law in any sense of that phrase. It is a political arm of the Democrat Party that is neither fair nor impartial. They have corrupted the law for their politics and their own personal desires. The upper courts like SCOTUS see exactly what is happening and have done nothing to stop it, or at least force them to expedite.

Posted by: Marcus T at February 16, 2024 05:58 PM (ElRvh)

222 LOL
Posted by: It's me donna at February 16, 2024 05:56 PM (Akjoo)

I'm not joking.

Posted by: G'rump928(c) at February 16, 2024 05:58 PM (aD39U)

223
I don't think they can allow Sting to spread any more of his misinformation that Russian love their children, too.

Posted by: Axeman at February 16, 2024 05:58 PM (krQz2)

224 He's probably telling them he's Amtrak Joe and his US son is Amtrak Hunter.

Posted by: L - They don't have to outrun and bear, they only have to outrun us - for now at February 16, 2024 05:59 PM (GshMh)

225 Posted by: G'rump928(c) at February 16, 2024 05:58 PM (aD39U)

Wait. What.

Posted by: thathalfrican - The One at February 16, 2024 05:59 PM (6bKJR)

226 The mayor of E. Palestine didn't want Mudpants there. Should be interesting.

Posted by: Mr Aspirin Factory, red heifer owner at February 16, 2024 05:59 PM (R4t5M)

227 >Any news on Joe in Ohio ?

Yes
He recalled the story about how Beau gave his life trying to stop a runaway train before it could destroy the town

Posted by: Don Black at February 16, 2024 05:59 PM (geLO8)

228 We in Brattleboro are happy to welcome our new freinds from somewhere I can't understand but they are very happy living in our sunroom and having a deliteful fiesta every night in are back yard. They said tomorrw they would do the grass and me too but I don't know why because I don't needd mowing.

Posted by: Mary Cloggenstein of Brattleboro Vermouth at February 16, 2024 05:59 PM (vFG9F)

229 He promised the East Palestinians that he would pressure Israel for a ceasefire and a 2-state solution.
Posted by: G'rump928(c

He's also promised to chase that bad dude Cohn Pop out.

Posted by: Northernlurker at February 16, 2024 06:00 PM (xcrUy)

230 He's gonna tell them about the time Beau died in a Toxic Train Derailment.

Posted by: garrett at February 16, 2024 06:00 PM (zOR5N)

231 Wait. What.
Posted by: thathalfrican - The One at February 16, 2024 05:59 PM (6bKJR)

I'm not suggesting that he thought they were middle eastern palestinians. It's just part of his stump speech now and he doesn't care if it is incongruous with the occasion.

Posted by: G'rump928(c) at February 16, 2024 06:01 PM (aD39U)

232 RFK and Giuliani should have left the NY mafia alone. They were many times more fair than what that state's government has become.

Posted by: Dr. Pork Chops & Bacons at February 16, 2024 06:01 PM (BdMk6)

233 Then Joe segued into an anecdote about bowling with Arafat

Posted by: Don Black at February 16, 2024 06:01 PM (geLO8)

234 thank you for that cogent and concise explanation
Posted by: Don Black
----------
You are welcome. Might as well reveal that I am not an attorney but was a legal educator specializing in public law.

Posted by: whig at February 16, 2024 06:01 PM (9FrDg)

235 He promised the East Palestinians that he would pressure Israel for a ceasefire and a 2-state solution.

Posted by: G'rump928(c) at February 16, 2024 05:56 PM

I am pretty sure they will embrace the 2-state solution.

IF the RR tracks through town will no longer be governed by the "state" that has appointed Pete Bootyjudge to be in charge of safety.

Posted by: Pillage Idiot at February 16, 2024 06:01 PM (HlyYF)

236 > The judge on his own authority and without any input from banks, insurance companies or commercial real estate experts, decided what Trump holding should be valued at.

Yep. People were posting pictures of nearby properties that were on sale for or recently sold for more money than that. Single-family dwellings on less land and no beach front were worth more than that. Nobody with a brain in their head thinks this ruling is based on facts or logic.

Posted by: bonhomme at February 16, 2024 06:01 PM (6OrcJ)

237 Maybe Grandpa Diddlefingers will trip into a toxic puddle and melt.

Posted by: Marcus T at February 16, 2024 06:01 PM (ElRvh)

238 this is basically what all of these court cases are. Don't people realize they will be next if they are the next Emmanuel Goldenstein. Everyone is guilty of something I'm sure.

Posted by: CaliGirl at February 16, 2024 05:55 PM (MrtV1)
---
Somebody showed Beria the man.

Posted by: Axeman at February 16, 2024 06:02 PM (krQz2)

239 HB Guy,
I am worried about you as Trump is apparently raping you non-stop everywhere. Can't you get multimillion justice for vague allegations of misconduct because Orange Man Bad?

Mebbe Morgan and Morgan will take you on as a client and Reid Hoffman pay for your legal costs.
Posted by: whig at February 16, 2024 05:17 PM (9FrDg)

-------

Or he could quit stalking Trump.

🤣

Posted by: Just Lily at February 16, 2024 06:02 PM (RLLZj)

240 The mayor of E. Palestine didn't want Mudpants there. Should be interesting.
Posted by: Mr Aspirin Factory, red heifer owner at February 16, 2024 05:59 PM (R4t5M)

The local people behind him were virtually rolling their eyes when Joe talked about all that he had done for them after the accident.

Posted by: G'rump928(c) at February 16, 2024 06:02 PM (aD39U)

241
I hope that the left wing ladies living on the upper East side enjoy this while it lasts. I truly hope that next they enjoy the throngs of illegals who are committing crimes with no end in sight. Enjoy the armed robberies, home invasions, rapes, car jackings, murders and assorted mayhem gals. Maybe call your hero E. Jean Carroll and cry to her.

Posted by: Cheri at February 16, 2024 05:55 PM

I have a perhaps unique perspective as to what is coming. I live in an absolutely rural area. No local police protection, only State Police - who can be half an hour away in best conditions. A nearby township with it's own police force chased a person of color evading arrest into my own driveway last Friday. To think this isn't coming everywhere soon?

Wishful thinking.

Posted by: Divide by Zero at February 16, 2024 06:02 PM (nIvob)

242 After that, Joe picked his nose for 2 minutes, looked at it, waved to the crowd, and was led away by staff

Posted by: Don Black at February 16, 2024 06:03 PM (geLO8)

243 Posted by: G'rump928(c) at February 16, 2024 06:02 PM (aD39U)

Biden is a true piece of shit human. As is his family, hanger-ons and regime workers.

Posted by: thathalfrican - The One at February 16, 2024 06:03 PM (6bKJR)

244 The judge on his own authority and without any input from banks, insurance companies or commercial real estate experts, decided what Trump holding should be valued at.

Yep. People were posting pictures of nearby properties that were on sale for or recently sold for more money than that. Single-family dwellings on less land and no beach front were worth more than that. Nobody with a brain in their head thinks this ruling is based on facts or logic.
Posted by: bonhomme at February 16, 2024 06:01 PM (6OrcJ)
---
I've been preaching against the rising authoritarianism of judges for decades now.

The next Constitution will have to address their presumption and arrogance at some level.

Posted by: Axeman at February 16, 2024 06:03 PM (krQz2)

245 Look, this is something obvious, but I hope the Republicans have enough brains to make Biden's senility the 24X7 issue, that and the fact that he's a dumbshit. I mean really be obnoxious and over-the-top about it (if that's even possible) to make the Donks pissed off enough to keep him as their candidate no matter what! We know that any replacement will get a tongue-bath from the media, so rather than trying to overcome a new face complete with new lies, we have to make them stick with Joe!

Posted by: Ray Van Dune at February 16, 2024 06:03 PM (8Ta2Y)

246 What value was the State of NY and NY City basing property taxes on? It would be funny if he was due a refund.

Posted by: TC at February 16, 2024 06:04 PM (OgfrC)

247 NOOD

Posted by: It's me donna at February 16, 2024 06:04 PM (Akjoo)

248 I think I heard Joe say that he was going to invest millions in studies to find out why trains derail.

Posted by: G'rump928(c) at February 16, 2024 06:04 PM (aD39U)

249 >You are welcome. Might as well reveal that I am not an attorney but was a legal educator specializing in public law.

Posted by: whig
---

I learned all my law from TV shows

Posted by: Don Black at February 16, 2024 06:04 PM (geLO8)

250 Look, this is something obvious, but I hope the Republicans have enough brains to make Biden's senility the 24X7 issue, that and the fact that he's a dumbshit.

Wait until he's nominated, please.

Posted by: G'rump928(c) at February 16, 2024 06:05 PM (aD39U)

251 Then Joe segued into an anecdote about bowling with Arafat
Posted by: Don Black at February 16, 2024 06:01 PM (geLO

---
I said "Look, fat!"

Posted by: Presilent Charlie Foxtrot at February 16, 2024 06:05 PM (krQz2)

252 211 I want this judge to do my property assessment for tax purposes. My house would be assessed at $129.
Posted by: Naples Yellow

Depending on NY law, I'd imagine that Trump will point out that the judge's decision will also make a hash of property tax valuations. They generally require quite a bit of due process to establish what a property is worth with no one person being able to establish those values without appeal.

The minimal due process in this case that NY state must follow is Londoner v. Denver case and that case dealt with how much a piece of property should be valued in relation to a road tax on frontage in Denver. The standard in that case is as the risk goes up on disproportionate punishment by the state, the procedural safeguards require more due process to be given.

Mathews v. Eldridge is the more modern application of Londoner.

Posted by: whig at February 16, 2024 06:06 PM (9FrDg)

253 I think Lenin suffered from syphilis which before the insane stage gifts it's host with bursts of creativity and evil genius level brain activity and much physical endurance.

Which explains most democrats today.

Posted by: Hairyback Guy at February 16, 2024 06:06 PM (R/m4+)

254 Or he could quit stalking Trump.

🤣
Posted by: Just Lily
-------
Heh.

Posted by: whig at February 16, 2024 06:07 PM (9FrDg)

255 186 Trump is only the 9th or 10th biggest real estate mogul in NYC. I wonder what the other 8 or 9 moguls are thinking.

They're thinking how to snitch on the others.
Posted by: t-bird at February 16, 2024 05:51 PM (T6h83)

---------

Achsually, they are thinking they are totally safe because they never intend to run against any Democrats and have paid up their election protection money.

And checking furiously to see if they have any business ties, however tenuous, to Trump International.

Posted by: Just Lily at February 16, 2024 06:09 PM (RLLZj)

256 >>>P.S if your god “effed” a human being it must have been an incredibly stupid one to produce you.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke

>Yikes! Crom laughs at your four winds. He laughs from his mountain.

Posted by: Dr. Bone at February 16, 2024 06:16 PM (EEgXH)

257 Posted by: Sid, Admitted Pedophile at February 16, 2024 05:12 PM (SkTxS)

No one's shot your worthless waste of skin dead yet in one of your "encounters", huh. Too bad.

Posted by: spindrift at February 16, 2024 06:48 PM (j1sQ9)

258 Is this something?

https://twitter.com/Pro__Trading/status/1758281676785164388

Posted by: MartynW at February 16, 2024 06:51 PM (sHP7b)

259
to a man, they cannot ever, ever envision such a thing happening to them.
Posted by: Common Tater

=======

Truthfully, neither can I. Everyone in NY knows this was a Trump-special bill of attainder. The only people in danger of having their assets seized are those running for president against the Deep State.

Posted by: Blonde Morticia's office at February 16, 2024 07:05 PM (T3es0)

260 >>>I've been following Benz on Twitter for a while and he has a more clear of the entire structure we are up against than anyone I've heard. But his interview with Tucker put it all together.

Posted by: JackStraw
----------------

Half-way through it. It's scary.

Posted by: Braenyard at February 16, 2024 07:13 PM (kiFJn)

261 Over-assessing the value of real estate for financial gain?
This is what every municipality in America does before sending out their property tax bills.

Does this mean now precedence is set, so instead of dealing with the hassle of the local appeals office, we can simply sue City Hall for fraud?

Posted by: BuddyPC at February 16, 2024 07:51 PM (R4e7q)

262 The judge claimed that the location of a property doesn't determine the value, i bet he has a nice NYC condo, which he now should have to sell for the same cost as a meth city USA double wide. I'll say you can even xerces extra for the upgrades, so maybe $35,000 for 2k square feet on Central Park West?

Posted by: Rbastid at February 16, 2024 08:15 PM (GdzD/)

263 American justice is officially the law of the Lord of the Flies. Welcome to the Jungle.

Burn it all down now.

Posted by: Sally at February 17, 2024 07:32 PM (bXvrr)

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