Retired Russian Colonel Tells State Media: We're Losing This War and We Should Get Out Of It

I just thought there was enough Ukraine news to warrant an update.

It's never clear how much news we get is just propaganda and how much is real. Is this Russian colonel's declaration on Russian TV a sign maybe the Russian really are in danger of losing the war, to the extent it can be "lost"?

'The whole world is against us': Retired colonel gives damning assessment of Russia's war in Ukraine on state TV as he urges Putin to 'get out of' the conflict
Mikhail Khodaryonok, a retired Soviet colonel, gave a dire assessment of Russia's war in Ukraine on state TV
He warned that myths of the Ukrainian army being demoralised and in disarray are 'to put it mildly, false'
Said Ukraine may soon have 1m troops armed with western weapons who are ready to 'fight to the last man'
Russia is in 'full geopolitical isolation' with 'virtually the entire world against us', Khodaryonok added, saying it is a situation that the country 'needs to get out of'
By CHRIS PLEASANCE FOR MAILONLINE

He actually has given warnings about the Russian position before, but never to this extent.

Is this guy going to be shot, or does this mean that elements in the government are sending a signal to Putin that dissent is now permissible?

I don't know. I don't spend a lot of time on Twitter so I'm not an Expert on All the Things.

Russian state media's trumped-up narrative of Putin's glorious war in Ukraine was last night shattered by a retired colonel who gave an unusually frank and damning assessment of the situation on the frontlines and world stage.
Mikhail Khodarenok, a former air defence commander and graduate of some of the Soviet Union's top military schools, used his platform on one of Russia's most-watched talk shows to warn that the war is going badly and is likely to get worse, and that nuclear sabre-rattling - far from being threatening - actually 'looks quite amusing'.
Ukraine, he said, will soon have mobilised more than a million soldiers who will be trained by the West and equipped with modern weapons, ready to fight and die to protect their homeland against Russia.

Batting aside repeated interruption from propagandist Olga Skabeyeva that the army will be mostly made of conscripts, Khodarenok insisted that how an army is recruited is irrelevant - what really matters is willingness to fight, and Ukraine 'intends to fight to the last man.'
Russia's position on the world stage is no better, he added, pointing out that 'we are in full geopolitical isolation, and that, however much we would hate to admit this, virtually the entire world is against us. And it's that situation that we need to get out of.'
Khodarenok's remarks, broadcast to millions of Russians who until now have been spoon-fed a narrative of their military's prowess and Ukraine's weakness, mark a stunning break with the state-sanctioned narrative and puts him at extreme odds with the Kremlin stooges stood to either side of him.

The sense that the war has turned in Ukraine's favor is shared by Ukraine. Their foreign minister recently announced that their own war aims had changed and included reclaiming the lands previously conquered by Russia:

"In the first months of the war the victory for us looked like withdrawal of Russian forces to the positions they occupied before February 24 and payment for inflicted damage," Kuleba said in an interview.
"Now if we are strong enough on the military front and we win the battle for Donbas, which will be crucial for the following dynamics of the war, of course the victory for us in this war will be the liberation of the rest of our territories."

A top Ukranian negotiator is now saying that if Putin wants a peace treaty, all he has to do is take his troops and march their asses back across the borders into Russia:

Vladimir Medinsky, the head of President Vladimir V. Putin’s delegation, speaking in his first interview with a Western news outlet since the beginning of the war, has claimed that Russia has still not received a response to a draft peace agreement that it submitted to Ukraine on April 15. Rustem Umerov, a top Ukrainian negotiator, responded by saying that Russia was operating with "fakes and lies."
"We are defending ourselves," Mr. Umerov said in an interview. "If Russia wants to get out, they can get out to their borders even today. But they are not doing it."

Ukranian forces have ~~recaptured~~ broken the siege of Kharkiv and pushed through to the Russian border -- in fact, Russia is now complaining that its territory is being shelled.

The Russian border region of Belgorod reportedly came under three separate artillery attacks on Sunday, as Ukrainian troops defending the city of Kharkiv said they have reached the Russian border.
Belgorod regional Governor Vyacheslav Gladkov acknowledged one attack on the border village of Sereda early Sunday, announcing that one person had been injured in the shelling.

But Russia has meanwhile finally captured the Crimean port city of Mariupol, where Ukranian defenders had been holed up in a steel plant for weeks.

A contingent of Ukrainian fighters who doggedly defended a steel mill in Mariupol for weeks "fulfilled its combat mission," Ukrainian officials said, and efforts were underway Tuesday to evacuate the last of the group.
“The Supreme Military Command ordered the commanders of the units stationed at Azovstal to save the lives of their personnel,” the General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine said in a statement. "Mariupol defenders are heroes of our time."
More than 260 Ukrainian troops were evacuated to areas controlled by Russian-backed separatists. The Kremlin called the exodus a mass surrender. Russian Defense Ministry video shows troops patting down and searching the fighters. Some were on stretchers as they were loaded onto the buses.
Ukraine Minister for the Reintegration Irina Vereshchuk said a prisoner exchange will take place for the more than 50 wounded soldiers, when their condition stabilizes, along with more than 200 other fighters evacuated through a humanitarian corridor. Hundreds of prisoners from both sides have been exchanged since the war began Feb. 24.

The situation in that plant was reportedly horrifying.

A Ukrainian fighter trapped in Mariupol's Azovstal steel plant said that several wounded people are lying without limbs and have no access to medicine or sanitary conditions.
The unidentified fighter called the situation "just awful" and said that up to 600 fighters are wounded within the plant. Azovstal is the last holdout against Russian forces in the southern port city, and hundreds of Ukrainian fighters are trapped within its massive structure.
"Fighters are simply lying without limbs, without arms, without legs," the fighter said in a broadcast on Ukrainian television, CNN reported Saturday. "They are dying in large numbers because we can't provide medical care. There are simply no medicines. Those with severe wounds...it is almost impossible to save them."

Update: Commenters point out that the Russians must be capturing any remaining troops as Mariupol is surrounded by Russian-held territory the Russian-controlled Crimea; there is no place for a retreating army to retreat to. So the preferred term used by Urkaine and the West -- that the Ukranians are "evacuating" the city -- is surely a propagandistic euphemism; they must be surrendering or being captured.

So one city to Russia, one to Ukraine.

But Russia really shouldn't be splitting victories, should it?

This war has really exposed Russia not as a second-rate power but... as a third-rate one.

There was a tension in US propaganda -- or US intelligence estimates -- which would say, on one hand, that the communist economic system was incapable of producing quality and abundance, but, on the other hand, that the Soviet war machine was so formidable that we had to be well-armed to stop it.

I realize the Russians are not the Soviets, not exactly, but... I think a lot of the same systems are in place.

At any rate, it looks like our estimates about the degeneracy of the Soviet economic system was more accurate than our estimates about the fearsomeness of the Soviet war machine. Their army is shit.*

A lot of Russians are dying because Russian tanks are failing and Russian gas tankers' cheap Chinese tires are just shredding on the road, leaving the gas stranded in the middle of nowhere, and etc., etc., etc.**

A lot of the money that was supposed to go into Russian armament surely went into the pockets of his oligarch gangster pals. And his own.

I wonder if Putin will be made pay a price for that.

Russia's biggest mistake was getting in to a war with a country that launders the money of Democrats.
Posted by: Rbastid

Below: The Russian colonel telling viewers not take "information tranquilizers;" and the Russians use thermite weapons against the steel plant in Mariupol. Apparently that's legal by the Geneva Conventions, if it's used against a purely military target, which the plant is at this point.

In an extremely rare moment of candour on Russian state TV today, defence columnist Mikhail Khodaryonok gave a damning assessment of Russia's war in Ukraine and his country's international isolation. It's fairly long but worth your time so I've added subtitles. pic.twitter.com/0mr7WAgSx6
— Francis Scarr (@francis_scarr) May 16, 2022

13/14 В-третьих, налицо желание не поджечь (что там поджигать, железные цеха?), а именно нанести страдания военнослужащим + психологический эффект pic.twitter.com/CJsc9qSXjj
— IanMatveev (@ian_matveev) May 15, 2022

Former President George W. Bush: “The decision of one man to launch a wholly unjustified and brutal invasion of Iraq. I mean of Ukraine.” pic.twitter.com/UMwNMwMnmX
— Sahil Kapur (@sahilkapur) May 19, 2022

* Yes Ukraine is being armed with good Western weapons. And they're also using very cheap improvised weapons, like grenades dropped from consumer-grade drones. I'll do a post about that. I think that's something the US has to worry about going forward -- very cheap weapons, basically bought from Radio Shack and printed up with 3D printers, that are potentially very effective against nine million+ dollar tanks.

** I think I've seen people questioning if China's army is all that, and/or questioning if China is questioning that. A lot of their stuff is Russia-pattern, right?

I don't know if China is as corrupt as Russia, though.

Posted by: Ace at 03:30 PM

Comments

(Jump to bottom of comments)

1 First!!

Posted by: Jmel at May 19, 2022 02:31 PM (Bl9QY)

2 nd

Posted by: The GOPe at May 19, 2022 02:32 PM (WhsXQ)

3 I think Russian losses are summing up it will be do or throw in towel and take what they have by end of summer

Posted by: Skip's phone at May 19, 2022 02:35 PM (K+T/8)

4 So are we now believing retired Russian military men? I don't believe a word of what's coming out of Russia. Not one word. I think it's all propaganda bullshit. But I do look at the Ukraine map showing the Russian positions. Looks to me like Russia is slowly but surely winning. If nothing else, they are now holding substantial positions in key locations across Ukraine. So in that sense, they have already won. I see no reason that they will give up now, no matter how many retired military types say otherwise.

Posted by: Elric Blade at May 19, 2022 02:35 PM (iFTx/)

5 Russia's biggest mistake was getting in to a war with a country that launder's the money of Democrats. They can't get out if this war now because the Ukrainians have learned that they can make millions of dollars by sacrificing their brave soldiers. So the Ukranian politicians will make sure thr fighting continues for months/ years, so they can keep that money flowing in.

Likewise many countries in the region live this because they can dump their crappy old Soviet era military gear on the Ukrainians, knowing the US will reimburse them with the newest flashiest equipment, thus helping pay off all their buddies in the defense contracting business.

Posted by: Rbastid at May 19, 2022 02:35 PM (6QCiE)

6 The UKR front lines are surrendering en masse today. 1700 from Avostal in the past 36 hours. The premise of this article might've made sense six weeks ago but looks foolish today.

Posted by: Brian in New Orleans at May 19, 2022 02:35 PM (CQ3Qb)

7 Speaking of China... ominous.

Yin Sura 尹苏拉
@yin_sura

36m
🇨🇳⚡The Chinese Communist Party's elite has been ordered to dispose of foreign assets, including those registered to children and wives, the WSJ learned. The decision was made against the backdrop of Western sanctions against Russians.

Posted by: In Reel Life (yes, dummy, on purpose) at May 19, 2022 02:35 PM (QYPq3)

8 Patton should have kept going to Moscow.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, fighting the system with Kobayashi at May 19, 2022 02:35 PM (LvTSG)

9 What is the possible endgame?
It looks like Biden and NATO will not drop sanctions even if Russia withdraws. They want regime change.

Posted by: MikeN at May 19, 2022 02:36 PM (o/eHL)

10 The missus, who I consider second to none on geopolitical matters due to an excessively accurate track record, has been saying forever that Russia will lose and she expects Putin to pay the ultimate price - or at least never be heard from again. Getting interesting now.

Posted by: ... at May 19, 2022 02:36 PM (oA0xt)

11 Retired Russian Colonel Tells State Media: We're Losing This War and We Should Get Out Of It

My first thought is remembering all the "retired US military generals", celebrated by the US media, speaking out against Bush 43 during OEF and OIF in an effort to undermine the war efforts.

Posted by: Clyde Shelton at May 19, 2022 02:36 PM (Do5/p)

12 I can't accept I wasted about eight hours of my life waiting to vote for that idiot in two elections. It boggles.

Posted by: NCKate at May 19, 2022 02:36 PM (2oJif)

13 I don’t see any nude Russians. Maybe that’s a good thing.

Posted by: Squid at May 19, 2022 02:37 PM (Ugysd)

14 There was a tension in US propaganda -- or US intelligence estimates -- which would say, on one hand, that the communist economic system was incapable of producing quality and abundance, but, on the other hand, that the Soviet war machine was so formidable that we had to be well-armed to stop it.

I realize the Russians are not the Soviets, not exactly, but... I think a lot of the same systems are in place.

Quantity has a quality all it's own, and the Soviet Army had a hell of a lot of institutional knowledge accumulated from WWII. It makes sense to err on the side of caution and suspect that they could still do a lot of damage.

One of the problems is that the Russians were no doubt lying to each other about their military capabilities. This makes it difficult to accurately assess their capabilities from the outside, as you're often looking for incongruities to help identify what is real and what is false.

Posted by: Colorado Alex in Exile at May 19, 2022 02:37 PM (wmDcS)

15 I don't know if China is as corrupt as Russia, though.

=========

I would imagine China is far more corrupt than Russia.

There's a whole lot more money going into China than Russia.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, fighting the system with Kobayashi at May 19, 2022 02:38 PM (LvTSG)

16 Ace,

There's a danger in assuming that events in an earlier phase is determinate today.

An analog is our time in Iraq. We rolled hard through a foe that was weakened through sanctions and arms inspections.

And then we found ourselves in IED hell, which was then turned around through SF operations + the Surge, which was then thrown away.

There's also a danger in giving too much credence to headlines that are often generated and curated by those who have done a terrible job with past wars.

Posted by: Harlock at May 19, 2022 02:38 PM (RCySr)

17 Patton should have kept going to Moscow.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, fighting the system with Kobayashi at May 19, 2022 02:35 PM (LvTSG)

With what Army? There's no way the US population would have supported another long war, especially against a nominal ally.

Posted by: Colorado Alex in Exile at May 19, 2022 02:38 PM (wmDcS)

18 There was a tension in US propaganda -- or US intelligence estimates -- which would say, on one hand, that the communist economic system was incapable of producing quality and abundance, but, on the other hand, that the Soviet war machine was so formidable that we had to be well-armed to stop it.

***

I'm old enough to remember when every intel source and pretty much the entirety of the Left were screaming during the Reagan years, and earlier than that to be honest, that Russia was too powerful and that we should just give it up and surrender because they were going to win.

Many of those same Intel bright lights are still on network news giving interviews.

Posted by: Azathoth at May 19, 2022 02:38 PM (wb1YC)

19 2021 - "Woke US military couldn't win a war."

2022 - "Even our trannies could beat these Russians."

Posted by: Mark1971 at May 19, 2022 02:39 PM (xPl2J)

20 W for the L!

Posted by: G'rump928(c) at May 19, 2022 02:39 PM (yQpMk)

21 An interesting slip of the tongue by W.

Revealing.

Posted by: Puddleglum at May 19, 2022 02:39 PM (J7wri)

22 >>>I would imagine China is far more corrupt than Russia.

There's a whole lot more money going into China than Russia.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, fighting the system with Kobayashi at May 19, 2022 02:38 PM (LvTSG)

Correct. And that bubble is so big when it pops (like tomorrow) it's not going to be contained there.

Posted by: In Reel Life (yes, dummy, on purpose) at May 19, 2022 02:39 PM (QYPq3)

23 yeah, putin is screwed if this guy managed to get that all out on national tv without being hauled off stage...

Posted by: The GOPe at May 19, 2022 02:39 PM (WhsXQ)

24 Perhaps Putin could start referring to it as the 21st-Century Great Patriotic War. Maybe that will get all the oligarchs fully onboard and supportive.

Posted by: Curly Shuffle at May 19, 2022 02:40 PM (TNyrE)

25 Yes Ukraine is being armed with good Western weapons. And they're also using very cheap improvised weapons, like grenades dropped from consumer-grade drones. I'll do a post about that. I think that's something the US has to worry about going forward -- very cheap weapons, basically bought from Radio Shack and printed up with 3D printers, that are potentially very effective against nine million+ dollar tanks.
++++
Medium-tech - some high-tech, but cheap and improvised - is probably a real problem. The only way to handle this is probably effective jamming - this stuff is all remote control - but then you have to also not jam your own shit in the process, and my understanding is that there's a far amount of spectrum overlap. And then the sophisticated stuff can often reconfigure itself to overcome that, at least temporarily.

This latter thing happened with Starlink. SpaceX sent a bunch of Starlink kit to Ukraine for them to use when Russia invaded. Russia jammed it. SpaceX pushed a configuration update that made it all work anyway, despite the jamming - and nobody in the intelligence community seems to know how they did it.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at May 19, 2022 02:40 PM (DU+/6)

26 >>>The UKR front lines are surrendering en masse today. 1700 from Avostal in the past 36 hours.

well the post mentions Russians capturing the steelworks so... I mean, you can't not read the article and then criticize the article for supposedly not reporting things that it actually discusses.

Posted by: ace at May 19, 2022 02:40 PM (0G13K)

27 Our military doesn't actually fight wars so moot point on how good Russia or China is

Posted by: NCKate at May 19, 2022 02:40 PM (2oJif)

28 China is likely as corrupt as Russia, if not more. And they don't have nearly the actual combat experience as the Russians were supposed to have.

Posted by: Colorado Alex in Exile at May 19, 2022 02:40 PM (wmDcS)

29 I think I've seen people questioning if China's army is all that, and/or questioning if China is questioning that. A lot of their stuff is Russia-pattern, right?

I don't know if China is as corrupt as Russia, though.
++++
They probably are, but it's different. Russia is centrally corrupt. China is generally corrupt. I don't know what kind of difference that makes.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at May 19, 2022 02:40 PM (DU+/6)

30 yeah, putin is screwed if this guy managed to get that all out on national tv without being hauled off stage...

Posted by: The GOPe at May 19, 2022 02:39 PM (WhsXQ)

Perhaps, it's a signal that Putin is in fact a dead man (naturally) already. Not actually dead yet, but terminal.

Posted by: In Reel Life (yes, dummy, on purpose) at May 19, 2022 02:41 PM (QYPq3)

31 I have love-hate relationship with Mail Online. I like it. But I don't trust it.

And there's the rub. Who can you trust?

Posted by: creeper at May 19, 2022 02:41 PM (cTCuP)

32 It seems that W has a guilty conscience.

Posted by: G'rump928(c) at May 19, 2022 02:41 PM (yQpMk)

33 Vangelis is mort

Posted by: Mark1971 at May 19, 2022 02:41 PM (xPl2J)

34 Who? Mikhail Khodarenok?

Won't see him no more...

Posted by: The FSB at May 19, 2022 02:41 PM (VghRo)

35 Didn't India just win a skirmish with China?

Posted by: G'rump928(c) at May 19, 2022 02:42 PM (yQpMk)

36 And there's the rub. Who can you trust?
Posted by: creeper at May 19, 2022 02:41 PM (cTCuP)
++++
Your own lyin' eyes and people you directly know and have a good track record.

Vicarious trust is a thing of the past.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at May 19, 2022 02:42 PM (DU+/6)

37 >>> So are we now believing retired Russian military men? I don't believe a word of what's coming out of Russia. Not one word.
Posted by: Elric Blade at May 19, 2022 02:35 PM (iFTx/)

I don't know, it seems legit to me. They just need a very most trusted man to give them the news every day.

Posted by: Walter Cronkite at May 19, 2022 02:42 PM (qsj+f)

38 I'm so glad Dubya got that heavy weight off his chest.

Posted by: Curly Shuffle at May 19, 2022 02:42 PM (TNyrE)

39 Ace, tanks and APC's don't run on gas they run on diesel. Otherwise, good update. I'm like you, I have no confidence in any report coming out of Ukraine or Russia.

Posted by: Puddin Head at May 19, 2022 02:42 PM (D8mow)

40 33 Vangelis is mort
Posted by: Mark1971 at May 19, 2022 02:41 PM (xPl2J)

=========

*sad synth music*

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, fighting the system with Kobayashi at May 19, 2022 02:42 PM (LvTSG)

41 "Now if we are strong enough on the military front and we win the battle for Donbas, which will be crucial for the following dynamics of the war, of course the victory for us in this war will be the liberation of the rest of our territories."

So make with the next $50 billion of ~~graft~~ weapons, my Western friends!

Posted by: Dmytro Kuleba, eyeing some ocean-front properties in Florida and Spain at May 19, 2022 02:42 PM (h5TKJ)

42 Russia never took Kharkiv although it attempted to early on in the war, and then decided to just sit nearby and shell it while focusing elsewhere.

Mariupol has been mostly captured for some time, and the surrender of the forces in the steel plant is more symbolic than meaningful.

A lot of Ukraine's "counterpush" has been Russia retreating forces from areas they don't intend to take. To all appearances the war has been fairly slow and low activity for a while.

Posted by: Someguy's at May 19, 2022 02:42 PM (7Wvyk)

43
Patton should have kept going to Moscow.
Posted by: TheJamesMadison, fighting the system with Kobayashi at May 19, 2022 02:35 PM (LvTSG)

_________

With what? We were pulling guys out as fast as we could to send them to the Pacific for Downfall.

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at May 19, 2022 02:43 PM (/U27+)

44 I don’t think Putin survives this war, either politically or biologically.

Posted by: Bulgaroctonus at May 19, 2022 02:43 PM (Bq+PW)

45 defence columnist Mikhail Khodaryonok

Ah. I see the problem

Posted by: creeper at May 19, 2022 02:43 PM (cTCuP)

46 Is that Russian retired general the Russian equivalent of General McInerney (Air Force, I think) or whatever his name was that always had GREAT INSIGHT and WATCH THIS NEXT THING COMING UP on Fox News, and was spectacularly wrong about every damned thing he said?

Posted by: Oedipus at May 19, 2022 02:44 PM (4cbPn)

47 Remember, the "war" is about dismantling the Deep State financial laundering system and US-funded biolab development. The RINO's and commie Dems are in Bat-Shit CrazyMode while this is going on. THIS is why 40 billion is being "sent" for "military purposes" when in reality it is to replenish the damage that Russians (and Ukrainian realists) have inflicted upon the Deep State operation.

Posted by: Jonah Kyle at May 19, 2022 02:44 PM (R4j1g)

48 This latter thing happened with Starlink. SpaceX sent a bunch of Starlink kit to Ukraine for them to use when Russia invaded. Russia jammed it. SpaceX pushed a configuration update that made it all work anyway, despite the jamming - and nobody in the intelligence community seems to know how they did it.
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at May 19, 2022 02:40 PM (DU+/6)

So, what you're saying is Elon Musk has the most talented intel community in the world...

Posted by: Nova local at May 19, 2022 02:44 PM (exHjb)

49 I have no idea what's actually going on. Unfortunately, we don't have reliable, trustworthy news. So I've more or less given up on knowing what is going on. I'll know once it's over I guess. That said, it's somewhat incongruous that Finland and Sweden have been talking about joining NATO. Why bother if Russia is so weak and on the brink of losing the entire war?

Posted by: bear with asymmetrical balls at May 19, 2022 02:45 PM (ppBhU)

50
And they don't have nearly the actual combat experience as the Russians were supposed to have.
Posted by: Colorado Alex in Exile at May 19, 2022 02:40 PM (wmDcS)

_________

We can ask India what their impressions are.

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at May 19, 2022 02:45 PM (/U27+)

51 Ol' Dubya just described the United States.

Elections rigged....check
Politics opponents imprisoned....check
One man's unjustified invasion of Iraq....check

We have met the enemy, and it is us.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger at May 19, 2022 02:45 PM (v31Ye)

52 Russia will continue until it captures Odessa, and owns the northwest coast and ports of the Black Sea. What happens after is unclear to me.

Posted by: stu-mick-o-sucks at May 19, 2022 02:45 PM (WFMLs)

53 Ok, but this guy says the mainstream is lying and won't use the word Surrender.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oX4gwP3fc0Q

Posted by: Ethan Saunders at May 19, 2022 02:46 PM (W1E3x)

54 51 Ol' Dubya just described the United States.

Elections rigged....check
Politics opponents imprisoned....check
One man's unjustified invasion of Iraq....check

We have met the enemy, and it is us.
Posted by: Bitter Clinger at May 19, 2022 02:45 PM (v31Ye

Where was he speaking?

Posted by: N.L. Urker, my trench is full of chickens at May 19, 2022 02:46 PM (eGTCV)

55 I find the whole conflict as being a sad statement about the western world. The only reason this is happening is that the US and Europe don't want to give up their Ukrainian money laundering apparatus.

As I've said. There are no good guys in this war.

Posted by: Pork Chops & Bacons at May 19, 2022 02:46 PM (Qhnrt)

56 The "news" is indeed terrible for understanding what's going on.

We have precedence, called Iraq and Afghanistan.

Posted by: Harlock at May 19, 2022 02:46 PM (RCySr)

57 I'd heard that China's stuff is US knock offs and India uses Russian knck offs.

Posted by: Someguy's at May 19, 2022 02:46 PM (7Wvyk)

58 We do all understand that our ruling class masters anticipate and lust for a new soviet rising from the ashes of whatever they destroy in Russia, right?

They all didn't vacation and honeymoon over there during the cold war because they just dig the geography and food.

Posted by: banana Dream at May 19, 2022 02:47 PM (qsj+f)

59
I ought to be mowing the yard right now, you know.

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at May 19, 2022 02:47 PM (/U27+)

60 The one report I did see was the absolute abandon the Ukes are firing our Javelins. The word was these had nearly no effect in Mariupol. This makes sense cuz Mariupol is a street fight not an open country fight. The minimum arming distance for a Javelin is 65m in direct attack mode. Street to street fighting is not was it was designed for. In Panama the Army had to do an emergency purchase of Carl Gustav recoiless rifles to fight in urban areas. The Carl Gustave round arms immediately.

Posted by: Puddin Head at May 19, 2022 02:47 PM (D8mow)

61 I think it was always a huge gamble on Russia's part. They need to win quickly and decisively. The Democrat assistance of Ukraine gave them what they needed most--time.

Granted the Democrats are more corrupt than Russia, Ukraine, and China put together. So they were only looking out for their own interests.

But this does reveal a secret that Russia would definitely not have revealed--the actual capabilities of their army. Not good for them.

And this is emblematic of the larger issue that this is probably the case for ANY major world power (us included).

Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at May 19, 2022 02:47 PM (YIVH2)

62 I don't care who "wins" It's just want it over.
Bonus if FJB and the graft hawks are humiliated

Posted by: vmom stabby stabby stabby stabby stabamillion at May 19, 2022 02:48 PM (kf6Ak)

63
I think that's something the US has to worry about going forward -- very cheap weapons, basically bought from Radio Shack and printed up with 3D printers, that are potentially very effective against nine million+ dollar tanks.
-
Sorta. The US can be confident that any foreign enemy will defeat us, and that foreign powers will be happy to underwrite that result - the enemy won't have to shop at Radio Shack.

The only thing the US military will be useful for in the future is in a law-enforcement role, terrorizing its own populace. In that case, they may have to worry about this consumer-grade stuff.

Posted by: Deep Thoughts at May 19, 2022 02:48 PM (o0I+B)

64 >>>Ok, but this guy says the mainstream is lying and won't use the word Surrender.

ok but why should I believe him?

I understand you guys don't want to believe Western Propaganda but then you seem to be willing to believe any claim made by "the other side" without need of any proof or even pictures.

this is a guy standing in the middle of a road.

Posted by: ace at May 19, 2022 02:48 PM (0G13K)

65 Putin is a mob-boss, not a strategist.

Posted by: Axeman (Fuck/Off) at May 19, 2022 02:48 PM (krQz2)

66 so I'm not an Expert on All the Things.

ace, you don't have to be an expert on all the things, you only have to be an expert on the Current Thing.

Posted by: Twitterati at May 19, 2022 02:48 PM (a3Q+t)

67 George Bush is a prick.

And in other news, I don't trust retired colonels who go on teevee making pronouncements. I don't think any of us know what's really going on in Ukraine, all I know is everyone in politics who I despise is claiming Russia is losing, after they tell us how innocent people in Ukraine are being slaughter by the gazillions by the brutal dictator in Russia, who also has cancer and is dying and isn't making decisions anymore.

Posted by: BurtTC at May 19, 2022 02:48 PM (YV6PJ)

68 Russia's prestige has taken a dent as a result of this invasion.

Posted by: mr tmx at May 19, 2022 02:48 PM (rJ48h)

69 It appears ghat this guy went on TV on Wednesday and...backtracked a lot of what he said. I guess somebody was listening...and , um , convinced him to rethink his position.

Posted by: runner at May 19, 2022 02:48 PM (vyw2i)

70 I'm not certain Ukraine is laundering exclusively Democrat money, given today's vote in the Senate.

Posted by: gourmand du jour at May 19, 2022 02:49 PM (jTmQV)

71 When Biden shits himself in the presence of the Japanese Prime Minister will the media respond with the same frenzy as when they falsely accused Trump of overfeeding goldfish?

Posted by: N.L. Urker, my trench is full of chickens at May 19, 2022 02:49 PM (eGTCV)

72 P1: Russia is losing to (a "smaller country" called) Ukraine.

P2: Russia needs to be repelled or they'll roll over NATO.

Posted by: Axeman (Fuck/Off) at May 19, 2022 02:49 PM (krQz2)

73 As I've said. There are no good guys in this war.

Posted by: Pork Chops & Bacons at May 19, 2022 02:46 PM (Qhnrt)

--- Quoted for truth.

Distorted Nationalist History in Ukraine

http://shorturl.at/htHJ4

Posted by: Harlock at May 19, 2022 02:49 PM (RCySr)

74 Japan has more aircraft carriers than China does.

Posted by: Orson at May 19, 2022 02:49 PM (iA3kn)

75 I never thought unless a complete collapse in beginning that Russia was going to take all of Ukraine

Posted by: Skip's phone at May 19, 2022 02:50 PM (K+T/8)

76 I have no idea what's going on in Ukraine.

I'm okay with that.

I'd rather we didn't spend any money on it, though. It doesn't concern me.

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, fighting the system with Kobayashi at May 19, 2022 02:50 PM (LvTSG)

77 This guy is Estonian....so, who knows what's going on.

Posted by: runner at May 19, 2022 02:50 PM (vyw2i)

78 Gub says the 40 billion is good for 5 months

so in Gub years, that's what, the 4th of July

Posted by: REDACTED at May 19, 2022 02:50 PM (us2H3)

79 59 I ought to be mowing the yard right now, you know.
Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at May 19, 2022 02:47 PM (/U27+)

I just finished wire brushing an inch of silt off the flagstone patio, deposited by the last gully-washer. Drained four yard blower batteries getting rid of it. Batteries are dead and I'm almost. I quit.

Posted by: creeper at May 19, 2022 02:50 PM (cTCuP)

80 this is a guy standing in the middle of a road.

Posted by: ace at May 19, 2022 02:48 PM (0G13K)

The guy in your post clearly isn't middle of the road.

Let's take the claim "Russia is in full geopolitical isolation."

Now can anyone name two highly populated countries that Russia is not isolated from? Ergo we can conclude he has a very skewed perspective roughly in line with western talking points.

Posted by: Someguy's at May 19, 2022 02:50 PM (7Wvyk)

81 ok but why should I believe him?

this is a guy standing in the middle of a road.

Posted by: ace at May 19, 2022 02:48 PM (0G13K)

I'm not saying you should. Like many I don't know what to believe. I was just pointing it out.

Posted by: Ethan Saunders at May 19, 2022 02:50 PM (W1E3x)

82 Wait til the Ukrainians bust out their phasers and photon torpedoes. Gamer over, man.

Posted by: President Joe Biden at May 19, 2022 02:51 PM (SG2zL)

83 Yeah, Ace, it is as corrupt. And China makes crap, as any American craftsman can attest. It is reversed engineered without truly understanding how it works.

And we know China has been supplying the Russians, and it has been part of the Russian equipment failure. And if you thin China makes the good stuff for themselves, they don't. They sell the best stuff to the west. Their own stuff is crap because they cannot spend the money necessary to make it less crappy.

Talk to any US engineer who has dealt with China. Great mathematicians. Not so great engineers.

Their vast navy probably cannot travel more than 500-1000 miles off shore without trouble. And meeting the Japanese or the US at sea would be a death march.

Posted by: Black JEM at May 19, 2022 02:51 PM (LyTO1)

84 72 P1: Russia is losing to (a "smaller country" called) Ukraine.

That we are arming and I suspect we have some "people" on the ground there in some capacity

Posted by: It's me donna at May 19, 2022 02:51 PM (bs+z0)

85 Yeah, and when the Ukes left Mariupol, a few hundred Ukrainian Fighters, were evacuated... to RUSSIAN HELD TERRITORY...

That was how our media put it... with a rational press that is called SURRENDERING.

There is so much propaganda going on, its impossible to say what is going on... because we are not being allowed to hear any of Russia's side of the story.

Posted by: Romeo13 at May 19, 2022 02:51 PM (oHd/0)

86

*hic*

Posted by: Hillary Clinton at May 19, 2022 02:51 PM (SWi3y)

87 That guy on Twitter who has been talking about the tires showed a picture of one from a captured piece of Russian equipment that said "Made in USSR" on the sidewall. Either a very old tire or still being produced with very old equipment never updated.

Posted by: Mark1971 at May 19, 2022 02:51 PM (xPl2J)

88
Mikhail Khodarenok didn't kill himself.

(too soon?)

Posted by: AltonJackson at May 19, 2022 02:51 PM (ENBF0)

89 Biden shits himself in the presence of the Japanese Prime Minister

Bush the elder puking into his lap.

Posted by: Commissar of Plenty and Lysenko Solutions at May 19, 2022 02:51 PM (hWaIR)

90 Russia will continue until it captures Odessa, and owns the northwest coast and ports of the Black Sea. What happens after is unclear to me.

It they take Odessa, which I don't think they will, they will trade it away for a treaty recognizing their claims to the territories east of the Dnieper.

Posted by: G'rump928(c) at May 19, 2022 02:51 PM (yQpMk)

91 My worry is that the Germans rolled the Soviets for months in 41. Staggering Russian defeats--some of the largest losses in world history to that point.

Why did the Russians lose so badly? Same as now: politicial corruption, supply, communist fantasy instead of reality. kind of like our current military, I bet.

But the Soviets learned, they got rid of much of the graft, the corruption, found actual leaders, and eventually they just overwhelmed the Germans.

Yes, the Russian military is crap... right now. But face it: they are now the most experienced in fighting an actual war in the world. I can't imagine that Putin has been sitting there not trying to get the corruption, supply, etc issues fixed.

We got our asses handed to us at Kassarine pass, and had to do the same thing that Putin is likely doing now.

Will Russia's military STAY weak and corrupt? I don't think that's likely. The real issue is whether they can afford to rearm and fix it. And of course the morale issue: the Soviets were defending the Motherland; does Putin have the same level of support?

Posted by: Rafal Gan Ganowicz at May 19, 2022 02:51 PM (tgIla)

92 It appears ghat this guy went on TV on Wednesday and...backtracked a lot of what he said. I guess somebody was listening...and , um , convinced him to rethink his position.
Posted by: runner at May 19, 2022 02:48 PM (vyw2i)

Da!

Posted by: The FSB at May 19, 2022 02:52 PM (VghRo)

93 Russia may be a third rate power, but it is a nuclear armed third rate power.

Posted by: butch at May 19, 2022 02:52 PM (7eOKk)

94 ** I think I've seen people questioning if China's army is all that, and/or questioning if China is questioning that.
----
There's good reason to question how well China's military will perform. The corruption is almost unimaginable. I follow some Chinese ex-pat YT channels and they say every military assignment and every promotion is entirely dependent on one's ability to pay the proper bribes to the CCP. I don't see how that system can produce a high-functioning military.

Posted by: Meade Lux Lewis, Domestic Terrorist at May 19, 2022 02:52 PM (sWM8x)

95 I despise is claiming Russia is losing, after they tell us how innocent people in Ukraine are being slaughter by the gazillions by the brutal dictator in Russia, who also has cancer and is dying and isn't making decisions anymore.

I read here just the other day that Russia would wholesale slaughter all of the POWs captured in Mariupol. But apparently they are taking them away on busses to treat them for their injuries before the mass executions occur.

I pray for our Ukrainian Literal Nazi brothers.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger at May 19, 2022 02:52 PM (v31Ye)

96 That's it, Vlad. Have your soldiers march back home, and you can concentrate on what's more important, like how long are you going to live.

Did Putin invade Ukraine because he has Alexander-the-Great territorial ambitions -- to be like the czars? Or were there specific resources he wanted to capture and make his own?

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius at May 19, 2022 02:52 PM (txdEq)

97 Biden shits himself in the presence of the Japanese Prime Minister
---
Just more normalcy delivered to your door, via the DC politburo and "adults back in charge".

Posted by: Axeman (Fuck/Off) at May 19, 2022 02:52 PM (krQz2)

98
We have met the enemy, and it is us.
Posted by: Bitter Clinger at May 19, 2022 02:45 PM (v31Ye)

Bingo.

Posted by: BurtTC at May 19, 2022 02:52 PM (YV6PJ)

99 Hey Ace! Patrick Lancaster has a whole youtube channel that you could like... watch and see for yourself how credible he is. From my observation he is definitely a pro Russian source but he IS on the ground in Ukraine and HAS been for the last 8 years or so of this war. Oh you didn't know that this is actually the tail end of an 8 year long war? Maybe you should do a bit of independent research instead of blindly believing western media which has proven itself to be liars many times over. I swear you are a living example of the Gell-Mann effect in action.

Posted by: Neon_Bluebeard at May 19, 2022 02:53 PM (Ef6U+)

100 Their vast navy probably cannot travel more than 500-1000 miles off shore without trouble. And meeting the Japanese or the US at sea would be a death march.
Posted by: Black JEM at May 19, 2022 02:51 PM (LyTO1)

More, until recently when we pretty much forced Russia to sign oil contracts with China, almost all of their oil for their economy came from the Middle East, via ship.

A single US Carrier group could cut that supply line in days.

Posted by: Romeo13 at May 19, 2022 02:53 PM (oHd/0)

101 picture of one from a captured piece of Russian equipment that said "Made in USSR"

Photoshop filter.

Posted by: Commissar of Plenty and Lysenko Solutions at May 19, 2022 02:53 PM (hWaIR)

102 I never thought unless a complete collapse in beginning that Russia was going to take all of Ukraine
Posted by: Skip's phone at May 19, 2022 02:50 PM (K+T/

I think that most assumed the UKR military would collapse quickly. I suspect that Western leaders hoped that they would. The US would then negotiate a settlement. Instead Zelensky refused to flee Kiev, the Ukrainian gov didn't collapse, and the West was forced to put cash the checks its mouth had been writing and actually back the Ukrainians.

I've always assumed that at some point the Russians would take the breakaway regions and there would be a negotiated end to the war. There's a difference, however, between a quick victory with relatively few losses, and a long drawn out campaign that demonstrates your military's incompetence.

Posted by: Colorado Alex in Exile at May 19, 2022 02:53 PM (wmDcS)

103
I first read it as Mikhail Khodorkovsky, and laughed that our media could screw up that badly. They didn't, of course. I misread it. But it's totally believable they would.

Posted by: Deep Thoughts at May 19, 2022 02:53 PM (o0I+B)

104 Colonel Khodaryonok retired more than twenty years ago. Which doesn't make him stupid, of course, but it means that his head is frozen where he was when he retired. As with many officers, especially TV pundits.

Anyways, a million man army is intimidating, but without the core of experienced soldiers they're likely going to die as novices. Mariupol has fallen, and the core of the Donbas army will likely be dead by the time the training finishes. Ukraine can't afford their soldiers realizing that the Russians are likely to treat them with more dignity than the Zelensky types are as they're shoved towards the firing artillery. But then, that's the critical problem with this proxy war- the Russians know the neocons are preparing to fight to the last Ukrainian, and are trying to make mass surrenders happen.

Posted by: trev006 at May 19, 2022 02:53 PM (Lo2B3)

105 @Ace "I understand you guys don't want to believe Western Propaganda but then you seem to be willing to believe any claim made by "the other side" without need of any proof or even pictures."

Ackshually... I tuned out in attempt to get oriented to what is going on, based on experience in the "info realm" during the war in IRQ and AFG, seeing how poorly the media covered those wars. They were describing something that didn't actually exist, much like Dick Cheney but with the polarity flipped.

It's how all of the above got blindsided by the arrival of ISIS, btw.

Posted by: Harlock at May 19, 2022 02:54 PM (RCySr)

106 >>>Let's take the claim "Russia is in full geopolitical isolation."

Now can anyone name two highly populated countries that Russia is not isolated from? Ergo we can conclude he has a very skewed perspective roughly in line with western talking points.

congratulations in missing the point. The interesting thing is that he was allowed to say this on Russian TV.

Do you understand the concept of "not offered to prove the claim itself?"

Do you understand that Russia has very tightly controlled state media? Or are we now at the point we're pretending that Russia is an open society and flourishing democracy?

Posted by: ace at May 19, 2022 02:54 PM (0G13K)

107 If I were the Japanese I would be dusting off the plans to retake Sahkilen Island from the Ruskies should China start an invasion of Russia's Far East. If that goes well I would have another plan to take as much of Russia Far East as is permissable.

Posted by: Puddin Head at May 19, 2022 02:54 PM (D8mow)

108 "I don't know if China is as corrupt as Russia, though."

You've heard of the ghost cities with unfinished apartments right? Just a concrete shell that employed millions of construction workers that are unused/empty now.

Now apply that same logic to Chinese military equipment, good odds it is almost as junkie as Russian gear. (It's probably a step up because they've stolen so much tech, but not on par to The West).

But Chinese trucks will still drive the proven-for-shit quality ones the Russians used. And the CHinese probably maintained them the same way, meaning it'll be a 100% repeat when they go to war.

Posted by: Scott_T at May 19, 2022 02:54 PM (2waQ7)

109 After the past two years I don't know why anyone would trust any media outlet for any reason at all.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at May 19, 2022 02:54 PM (IEa8U)

110 I understand you guys don't want to believe Western Propaganda but then you seem to be willing to believe any claim made by "the other side" without need of any proof or even pictures.

Even when the MSM tells us it is Putin's fault that Western cities are instantly turning violently radioactive I won't believe them.

Posted by: Reuben Hick at May 19, 2022 02:54 PM (AHeqJ)

111 No Bolshevik!

Posted by: ChockyChockyChip at May 19, 2022 02:54 PM (ufJfM)

112 Still don't believe much of anything we are being told about this mess.

Posted by: Notorious BFD at May 19, 2022 02:55 PM (Xrfse)

113 >>>93 Russia may be a third rate power, but it is a nuclear armed third rate power.

yes that is the very alarming thing.

Posted by: ace at May 19, 2022 02:55 PM (0G13K)

114 China's government is Russia-pattern.

China's weaponry is USA-pattern, German-pattern, French-pattern, whatever pattern they could steal.

Posted by: aelfheld at May 19, 2022 02:55 PM (Zy9Yy)

115 Western analysts broadly believed that Ukraine would fall in a few days. This never made much sense to me as Ukraine and Russia are very similar countries and have had an ongoing low level conflict for 8 years. The Ukrainians are not pushovers and the Russians likely know that.

Posted by: Someguy's at May 19, 2022 02:55 PM (7Wvyk)

116 Why does Biden have a shitting problem when he's meeting with legitimately-elected world leaders?

Guilt?

Posted by: JoeF. at May 19, 2022 02:55 PM (mR6Gs)

117 Russia's biggest mistake was getting in to a war with a country that launders the money of Democrats.

I don't think this goes far enough. I'm sure many, many Republicans are also involved, as well as leaders in many other countries.

Posted by: BeckoningChasm at May 19, 2022 02:55 PM (p+1gI)

118 "I cannot forecast to you the action of Russia. It is a riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma."

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks aka Hangdog Barkston at May 19, 2022 02:55 PM (FVME7)

119 113 >>>93 Russia may be a third rate power, but it is a nuclear armed third rate power.

and in a way you'd almost want a nuclear power to be conventionally stronger, so that it wouldn't feel the need to lash out with its nukes due to its weakness.

Posted by: ace at May 19, 2022 02:55 PM (0G13K)

120 This latter thing happened with Starlink. SpaceX sent a bunch of Starlink kit to Ukraine for them to use when Russia invaded. Russia jammed it. SpaceX pushed a configuration update that made it all work anyway, despite the jamming - and nobody in the intelligence community seems to know how they did it.
Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at May 19, 2022 02:40 PM (DU+/6)

So, what you're saying is Elon Musk has the most talented intel community in the world...
Posted by: Nova local at May 19, 2022 02:44 PM (exHjb)
==
I imagine the Musk engineers being told fuck it, bypass the Russian stuff and get it on line. And the engineer, some 31 year old crazy IT type saying, "Fuck yeah, we get to screw with Russians!"

Posted by: Black JEM at May 19, 2022 02:55 PM (LyTO1)

121 A single US Carrier group could cut that supply line in days.
Posted by: Romeo13 at May 19, 2022 02:53 PM (oHd/0)

The Chinese have been building up their influence in Central Asia for years because of this. The goal has been to build overland supply lines, especially for oil and gas. It's why I was fine with an indefinite US presence in Afghanistan: it allowed us to counter that expansion.

Posted by: Colorado Alex in Exile at May 19, 2022 02:56 PM (wmDcS)

122
Still don't believe much of anything we are being told about this mess.
Posted by: Notorious BFD at May 19, 2022 02:55 PM (Xrfse)
-
Where do you get news? If it's in written or spoken English, it's valueless. Just wait for the deed to be done - trying to read the pig entrails splattered all over our media is fucking pointless.

Posted by: Deep Thoughts at May 19, 2022 02:56 PM (o0I+B)

123 yeah, putin is screwed if this guy managed to get that all out on national tv without being hauled off stage...

Posted by: The GOPe at May 19, 2022 02:39 PM (WhsXQ)

Perhaps, it's a signal that Putin is in fact a dead man (naturally) already. Not actually dead yet, but terminal.
Posted by: In Reel Life (yes, dummy, on purpose) at May 19, 2022 02:41 PM (QYPq3)

mostly dead?

Posted by: zombie miracle max at May 19, 2022 02:56 PM (WhsXQ)

124 102 I never thought unless a complete collapse in beginning that Russia was going to take all of Ukraine
Posted by: Skip's phone at May 19, 2022 02:50 PM (K+T/
-------------
Russia want the Dnieper river to be the border between itself and Ukraine. Putin was never going to go full Lincoln and fight a total war.

Posted by: Puddin Head at May 19, 2022 02:56 PM (D8mow)

125 I came here to add that W bit, and Ace beat me to it.

Cruel.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at May 19, 2022 02:56 PM (ptqGC)

126 Western analysts broadly believed that Ukraine would fall in a few days. This never made much sense to me as Ukraine and Russia are very similar countries and have had an ongoing low level conflict for 8 years. The Ukrainians are not pushovers and the Russians likely know that.
Posted by: Someguy's at May 19, 2022 02:55 PM (7Wvyk)

They know each other very well. They are culturally, religiously and biologically related.

Posted by: JoeF. at May 19, 2022 02:56 PM (mR6Gs)

127 Why does Biden have a shitting problem when he's meeting with legitimately-elected world leaders?

Guilt?
Posted by: JoeF. at May 19, 2022 02:55 PM (mR6Gs)
++++
Coverage. We don't hear about his domestic shitting because his domestic agenda is always very tightly controlled. When he's in a foreign country, everything is notable and the level of control is much smaller.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at May 19, 2022 02:56 PM (DU+/6)

128
Even when the MSM tells us it is Putin's fault that Western cities are instantly turning violently radioactive I won't believe them.
Posted by: Reuben Hick at May 19, 2022 02:54 PM (AHeqJ)

___________

You never know. Could be that Kamala has the nuclear codes.

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at May 19, 2022 02:57 PM (/U27+)

129 We haven't won a war since Korea.

We spent $10 trillion and 20 years worth of lives losing to goat herders.

What does a first rate war machine look like?

Posted by: Bitter Clinger at May 19, 2022 02:57 PM (v31Ye)

130 There is so much propaganda going on, its impossible to say what is going on... because we are not being allowed to hear any of Russia's side of the story.
Posted by: Romeo13 at May 19, 2022 02:51 PM (oHd/0)

Game, set, match. We have no clue what the reality is over there. And that is by design.

Posted by: creeper at May 19, 2022 02:57 PM (cTCuP)

131 I imagine the Musk engineers being told fuck it, bypass the Russian stuff and get it on line. And the engineer, some 31 year old crazy IT type saying, "Fuck yeah, we get to screw with Russians!"
Posted by: Black JEM at May 19, 2022 02:55 PM (LyTO1)
++++
Probably something like that, but the really interesting thing is that it was possible. Clever software patched on the fly to bypass a problem is impressive, but that the equipment can apparently be remotely updated to switch frequencies - and the frequency shift would need to significant - is pretty amazing.

Posted by: Joe Mannix (Not a cop!) at May 19, 2022 02:57 PM (DU+/6)

132 And the Senate just voted to give Ukraine 40 billion more while Babies here can't get formula... Only 11 repubs voted no

Posted by: It's me donna at May 19, 2022 02:58 PM (bs+z0)

133 I'm not certain Ukraine is laundering exclusively Democrat money, given today's vote in the Senate.
Posted by: gourmand du jour at May 19, 2022 02:49 PM (jTmQV)

Yup. Ukraine is like Napster. Every politician went there to get everything for free because why not. It's free!

Posted by: BurtTC at May 19, 2022 02:58 PM (YV6PJ)

134 I understand you guys don't want to believe Western Propaganda but then you seem to be willing to believe any claim made by "the other side" without need of any proof or even pictures.

Posted by: ace at May 19, 2022 02:48 PM (0G13K)
___________________________________

See my comment above. I believe nothing from anyone. It's all bullshit. But I can read a map of Ukraine that shows Russian positions. Maybe the maps are lying too, but they are created by pro-Ukraine western media so if anything they are under-selling the Russian presence. Looking at those maps, it seems obvious to me that Russia has already taken over important areas and cities across Ukraine, and is steadily gaining even more ground. I can't square what I can see with my own eyes from what I think is biased pro-Ukraine bullshit. So I trust my eyes.

Posted by: Elric Blade at May 19, 2022 02:58 PM (iFTx/)

135 Still don't believe much of anything we are being told about this mess.

Posted by: Notorious BFD at May 19, 2022 02:55 PM (Xrfse)
---
*fist bump*

I think even if most of it's true, they are throwing some gaslighting in there to throw us off balance.

Posted by: Axeman (Fuck/Off) at May 19, 2022 02:58 PM (krQz2)

136 Joe Biden is amazing. Who would have ever thought that his tenure would see Roe V Wade overturned and Putin dead/defeated?

Posted by: JoeF. at May 19, 2022 02:58 PM (mR6Gs)

137 Now apply that same logic to Chinese military equipment, good odds it is almost as junkie as Russian gear. (It's probably a step up because they've stolen so much tech, but not on par to The West).

But Chinese trucks will still drive the proven-for-shit quality ones the Russians used. And the CHinese probably maintained them the same way, meaning it'll be a 100% repeat when they go to war.
Posted by: Scott_T at May 19, 2022 02:54 PM (2waQ7)

The Chinese cities aren't just empty, they're falling apart. Their quality control is worse than the Russians.

Posted by: Colorado Alex in Exile at May 19, 2022 02:58 PM (wmDcS)

138 This thread cries out for an update from Captain Standby, Malcolm Nance.

Is he on the front lines yet, or nah?

Posted by: Jane D'oh at May 19, 2022 02:58 PM (ptqGC)

139 Do you understand that Russia has very tightly controlled state media? Or are we now at the point we're pretending that Russia is an open society and flourishing democracy?

Posted by: ace at May 19, 2022 02:54 PM (0G13K)

That he is allowed to speak it is interesting but doesn't negate the obvious bullshit aspects of it. He's rather apocalyptic in his language. Trying to infer what that means for internal Russian politics is just Kremlinology.

Posted by: Someguy's at May 19, 2022 02:58 PM (7Wvyk)

140 Um, point of order, we didn't win in Korea.

Posted by: gourmand du jour at May 19, 2022 02:58 PM (jTmQV)

141 >>> Talk to any US engineer who has dealt with China. Great mathematicians. Not so great engineers.

Their vast navy probably cannot travel more than 500-1000 miles off shore without trouble. And meeting the Japanese or the US at sea would be a death march.
Posted by: Black JEM at May 19, 2022 02:51 PM (LyTO1)

Arrogant too. Some of that is just their base xenophobia but on top of that is the great mountain that is China and the lower world that is everyone else.

Anything, they'll claim was discovered or invented in china first and that that version of the idea is better or purer because it came in its original primordial form to them from heaven unlike the rest of the world which just got the sloppy seconds. Basic math, engineering, anything. They do not budge on this. I've heard Chinese scientists/engineers almost get into fights with people over this.

Posted by: banana Dream at May 19, 2022 02:58 PM (qsj+f)

142 I remember, as a teenager in the 80s, closely following the Falklands War. That was exciting, and the good guys won.

This Russia-Ukraine mess just gives me a headache.

Posted by: Bulgaroctonus at May 19, 2022 02:58 PM (Bq+PW)

143 >>>>and in a way you'd almost want a nuclear power to be conventionally stronger, so that it wouldn't feel the need to lash out with its nukes due to its weakness.

My biggest concern after seeing the Russian incompetence in Ukraine is an accidental nuclear missile launch.

Posted by: Mark1971 at May 19, 2022 02:59 PM (xPl2J)

144 We have met the enemy, and it is us.
Posted by: Bitter Clinger

Also Biden.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks aka Hangdog Barkston at May 19, 2022 02:59 PM (FVME7)

145 China has that inscrutable Oriental kind of corruption.

Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at May 19, 2022 02:59 PM (63Dwl)

146 The Good: China's stuff is crap. I also suspect their ability to run a modern war is on the same level as Russia.

The Bad: China can produce a lot of cheap stuff. Which is the major difference between Russia and China. Russia does have some good stuff, but it is not produced in high enough volumes to make any difference in a real war.

So in any conflict with China it is the old quantity-quality ratio. Does the U.S. and Asian allies have enough quality to overcome China in quantity in that part of the world?

Also naval warfare is different, because of the distances involved, etc., and of course amphibious landings are the hardest operation to pull off in warfare. We are not fighting China in Mongolia. It will be mostly a naval war.

Posted by: William Eaton at May 19, 2022 02:59 PM (YvunV)

147 They all didn't vacation and honeymoon over there during the cold war because they just dig the geography and food.
Posted by: banana Dream at May 19, 2022 02:47 PM (qsj+f)

wait, it wasn't for the borscht?

Posted by: zombie miracle max at May 19, 2022 02:59 PM (WhsXQ)

148 140 Um, point of order, we didn't win in Korea.
Posted by: gourmand du jour at May 19, 2022 02:58 PM (jTmQV)

=======

One day...maybe...

Posted by: TheJamesMadison, fighting the system with Kobayashi at May 19, 2022 02:59 PM (LvTSG)

149 uh, uh, uh... won't get fooled again!11!!

newqler

Rummy could carry competence off though.

Amazing how constant and considerable disappointment changes perception.

Posted by: micky at May 19, 2022 02:59 PM (3byMq)

150 I'm not certain Ukraine is laundering exclusively Democrat money, given today's vote in the Senate.
Posted by: gourmand du jour at May 19, 2022 02:49 PM (jTmQV)

Is this about my family?

Posted by: Mitt Romney at May 19, 2022 02:59 PM (mR6Gs)

151 Russia isn't a vibrant democracy, whatever that means, but there seems to be this idea that the media is there is some Soviet version of that which never was.

I watch 'em, but I don't trust them. Same goes for 1 + 1 in Ukraine.

Posted by: Harlock at May 19, 2022 02:59 PM (RCySr)

152 Yeah, Ace, it is as corrupt. And China makes crap, as any American craftsman can attest. It is reversed engineered without truly understanding how it works.

I was an engineering manager for a telecom company. We were competing for a huge contract in India. 7 of the 9 were offering our equipment (i.e. us, and 6 Chinese companies who had reverse engineered ours). 4 of those 6 copied ours exactly, including defects in our backplane.

Posted by: Duncanthrax at May 19, 2022 03:00 PM (a3Q+t)

153 Um, point of order, we didn't win in Korea.

Posted by: gourmand du jour at May 19, 2022 02:58 PM (jTmQV)

....

Fair enough. I'll mark it as a tie, if you prefer.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger at May 19, 2022 03:00 PM (v31Ye)

154 >>>I'm not saying you should. Like many I don't know what to believe. I was just pointing it out.

okay but for the stuff I put in the article, there are multiple sources on both sides of the war reporting it. Like both the Ukraine and Russia agree that Mariupol is being evacuated. Both agree that shells have fallen in Russia territory. Obviously this russian colonel was on Russian TV.

none of the stuff I put in this article is contested as propaganda.

this PL guy is just a guy standing in a road making claims.

Posted by: ace at May 19, 2022 03:00 PM (0G13K)

155 US intelligence agencies also thought that the Russian army was good - we thought that they'd take Kiev in 72 hours.

Remember, we immediately offered to evacuate Zelensky when the war started.

Posted by: The ARC of History! at May 19, 2022 03:00 PM (I2/tG)

156 Russia's GDP is smaller than NY State and they have a debt to GDP ratio somewhere in the 40 pct range.

Russia's GDP represents about 2pct of the combined countries of NATO's GDP.

Russia punches far above it's weight.

Let's see if Russia mucks about in Ukraine for the next 20 years.

Posted by: Thomas Bender at May 19, 2022 03:01 PM (qTfw3)

157 i mean, if there were 1700 troops surrendering, the Russians would have taken photos, right?

Posted by: ace at May 19, 2022 03:01 PM (0G13K)

158 93 Russia may be a third rate power, but it is a nuclear armed third rate power.
Posted by: butch at May 19, 2022 02:52 PM (7eOKk)

This is my true fear about all of this.

Posted by: Pork Chops & Bacons at May 19, 2022 03:01 PM (Qhnrt)

159 We spent $10 trillion and 20 years worth of lives losing to goat herders.

What does a first rate war machine look like?
Posted by: Bitter Clinger at May 19, 2022 02:57 PM (v31Ye)

The problem wasn't the US military, which was very good at killing bad guys. The problem was the political class who were unwilling to expand the war into NW Pakistan, where the Taliban had safe havens, and who weren't willing to push the kind of cultural changes necessary to secure Afghanistan.

Posted by: Colorado Alex in Exile at May 19, 2022 03:01 PM (wmDcS)

160 The fact that they [Putin] allowed the Colonel on TV means something. Something more than said.

We have dumb asses in DC and at the Pentagram and they are playing a fools game.

It is time, past time, to give Putin an honorable exit, a golden bridge out of Ukraine.

Posted by: Braenyard at May 19, 2022 03:01 PM (Gqta/)

161 and in a way you'd almost want a nuclear power to be conventionally stronger, so that it wouldn't feel the need to lash out with its nukes due to its weakness.

Posted by: ace at May 19, 2022 02:55 PM (0G13K)

You'd also prefer the U.S not keep poking it, after 75 years of treating them like your greatest enemy, and as they're sinking, you keep pushing and pushing pushing ever closer to their border, all while claiming all your political enemies domestically are Russian stooges.

Posted by: BurtTC at May 19, 2022 03:01 PM (YV6PJ)

162 Like both the Ukraine and Russia agree that Mariupol is being evacuated.

"Evacuated", as in captured, and being sent to POW camps in Donbass.

Posted by: The ARC of History! at May 19, 2022 03:01 PM (I2/tG)

163 Korea is our longest duration "cease-fire", I think.

Posted by: gourmand du jour at May 19, 2022 03:01 PM (jTmQV)

164 Putin and the Russian war monger cabal are evil, I'll grant that. I just don't know that they are more evil than Biden and the U.S. 'deep state' and war grifters.

I'm just nervous that with possibly desperate Russian leaders and the senile pervert and DNC + GOPe saber rattling here things could escalate to nuclear war.

Posted by: PaleRider, Simple Irredeemable at May 19, 2022 03:02 PM (3cGpq)

165
Remember, we immediately offered to evacuate Zelensky when the war started.
Posted by: The ARC of History! at May 19, 2022 03:00 PM (I2/tG)

Now we're flying in Senators and Congressmen at will

Posted by: It's me donna at May 19, 2022 03:02 PM (bs+z0)

166
US intelligence agencies also thought that the Russian army was good

__________

US intelligence couldn't find its own whifferdill if Kate Upton was holding the mirror.

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at May 19, 2022 03:02 PM (/U27+)

167 Um, point of order, we didn't win in Korea.
Posted by: gourmand du jour at May 19, 2022 02:58 PM (jTmQV)

Is South Korea still overrun by the North? We didn't conquer North Korea or China but we did restore the status quo.

Posted by: G'rump928(c) at May 19, 2022 03:02 PM (yQpMk)

168 I originally took middle of the road to refer to the retired Russian officer presenting a middle of the road view, not some guy in a linked video in the middle of a literal road. My bad.

Posted by: Someguy's at May 19, 2022 03:02 PM (7Wvyk)

169 Look at Korea... we had the vastly superior tech; and once we got over the sup-rise of North Korea's invasion, we easily rolled them once we got the troops there.

Until China intervened, sending what was it, a few million troops? Lower tech, lower supply, greatly superior numbers. Drove us back quite a bit, and then Truman figured out MacArther was insane and we settled for a cease fire.

That's the problem with fighting China: Do we have more bullets than China has men?

Posted by: Rafal Gan Ganowicz at May 19, 2022 03:02 PM (tgIla)

170 Do you understand that Russia has very tightly controlled state media? Or are we now at the point we're pretending that Russia is an open society and flourishing democracy?

Posted by: ace at May 19, 2022 02:54 PM (0G13K)

We're still pretending America is one. Even basic questions of math, history, and common sense are being frantically shunted aside by the Uniparty and corporat media. And yet, the cracks are widening. I can't stress how bad Mariupol is for the West even assuming that only a few thousand Ukrainians were taken as POWs. At some point, Russia will want their own POWs back, and what will Ukraine say then? "We don't have that many because we killed them all using Nazi rules." "Yeah, that was all bullshit, we don't have that many prisoners." Or will they say nothing, letting their soldiers believe whatever they want to believe? Because nothing is more corrosive to morale than soldiers believing their leaders don't care if they come back or not.

So. Where are the Russian POWs?

Posted by: trev006 at May 19, 2022 03:02 PM (Lo2B3)

171 Amazing how constant and considerable disappointment changes perception.
Posted by: micky at May 19, 2022 02:59 PM

This, too, is the story of the of the way the Commentariat here disappoints Ace.

Posted by: Duncanthrax at May 19, 2022 03:02 PM (a3Q+t)

172 >>>
"Evacuated", as in captured, and being sent to POW camps in Donbass.

well that point is disputed. "evacuated" is agreed on.

Posted by: ace at May 19, 2022 03:03 PM (0G13K)

173 Posted by: Elric Blade at May 19, 2022 02:58 PM (iFTx/)

And in latest news, the Ukrainian Army is now Advancing to the West, to protect their Western Borders!

Posted by: Romeo13 at May 19, 2022 03:03 PM (oHd/0)

174 Just in time, Malcolm Nance has just posted a new profile pic. Try not to laugh.

https://tinyurl.com/a7edad7x

Posted by: Jane D'oh at May 19, 2022 03:03 PM (ptqGC)

175 and in a way you'd almost want a nuclear power to be conventionally stronger, so that it wouldn't feel the need to lash out with its nukes due to its weakness.

Posted by: ace at May 19, 2022 02:55 PM (0G13K)

This is also a good argument against women being police officers

Posted by: Mitt Romney at May 19, 2022 03:03 PM (mR6Gs)

176 It's Schroedinger's catfight

Posted by: vmom stabby stabby stabby stabby stabamillion at May 19, 2022 03:03 PM (kf6Ak)

177 107 If I were the Japanese I would be dusting off the plans to retake Sahkilen Island from the Ruskies should China start an invasion of Russia's Far East. If that goes well I would have another plan to take as much of Russia Far East as is permissable.
Posted by: Puddin Head at May 19, 2022 02:54 PM (D8mow)

------------------

If that happened, then China and Russia would nuke each other. Now that would be one way to solve one of our major foreign policy problems. But knowing our elite, we would find some half ass way to get involved.

Posted by: William Eaton at May 19, 2022 03:03 PM (YvunV)

178 Russia has at least 11 nuke subs

with appx 16 missles on board

with 6 warheads

probably parked right off the east and west coast

and no advanced warning of their launch

well, maybe a minute

Posted by: REDACTED at May 19, 2022 03:04 PM (us2H3)

179 132 And the Senate just voted to give Ukraine 40 billion more while Babies here can't get formula... Only 11 repubs voted no
Posted by: It's me donna at May 19, 2022 02:58 PM (bs+z0)

And on that note I'm out. Got no more fucks to give where Repubs are concerned.

Posted by: creeper at May 19, 2022 03:05 PM (cTCuP)

180
Who cares? The Russian governmedia is lying, or it's not. The American governmedia certainly is. Who knows about Ukraine's? Probably also lying, given that the country is a wholly owned subsidiary of the lying Americans at this point.

Whatever happens, happens. Nobody in any of the three countries has any say in the matter, outside of their corrupt leadership cadres.

Posted by: Deep Thoughts at May 19, 2022 03:05 PM (o0I+B)

181 @MalcolmNance - May 18

I'm safe enough. Take care of America till I get back.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at May 19, 2022 03:05 PM (ptqGC)

182 China has that inscrutable Oriental kind of corruption.
Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at May 19, 2022 02:59 PM (63Dwl)
---
"Corruption" means nothing to any community that is not Biblically influenced.

They don't believe in anything outside of the state, as a higher authority. So, private property and the market is a way of distributing power and discretion to non-governmental factors. But the Chinese Fascist Empire does not believe in money or property.

The one thing any government has, if not a moral authority, it has the power of influence to the point of violence. The government has a monopoly on force, it is said. Corruption is the use of influence to the point of skewing things away from a "fairer" outcome.

But who determines what is "fair"? The government, which again has its base in influence/force, creates a hierarchy, which is by definition NOT "fair".

"Corruption" is just the way that government works. It's the instance of influence.

Posted by: Axeman (Fuck/Off) at May 19, 2022 03:05 PM (krQz2)

183 At some point, Russia will want their own POWs back, and what will Ukraine say then? "We don't have that many because we killed them all using Nazi rules." "Yeah, that was all bullshit, we don't have that many prisoners." Or will they say nothing, letting their soldiers believe whatever they want to believe? Because nothing is more corrosive to morale than soldiers believing their leaders don't care if they come back or not.

So. Where are the Russian POWs?
Posted by: trev006 at May 19, 2022 03:02 PM (Lo2B3)

The Soviets ( Russians) were just as nasty with their POWS as the Nazis were

Posted by: JoeF. at May 19, 2022 03:05 PM (mR6Gs)

184 FDR was a commie bastard but he wanted to win the war. FDR let the military do their job.

If the politicians had allowed the military to do their job and administrate the victory as done in WWII there would not be a Middle East problem, there would not be a Russia problem and there would not be a China problem.

Pax Americana

Posted by: Braenyard at May 19, 2022 03:06 PM (Gqta/)

185 I don't know if China is as corrupt as Russia, though.

There was an interesting article in the Bulwark, of all places, by a former commander of US Army, Europe.

Basically, he said that both the Russian and Ukrainian armies were shit and corrupt after the fall of the Soviet Union, but with lots of Western military training, the Ukrainian army Westernized (creating a strong NCO caste, etc.), and the Russians did not.

Self-serving, but appears to be borne out by events.

Posted by: The ARC of History! at May 19, 2022 03:06 PM (I2/tG)

186 @Ace, did you not see the "evacuation" of Azov guys on busses with Zs on them?

Posted by: Harlock at May 19, 2022 03:06 PM (RCySr)

187 Lots of people lost their stars and garters when Trump turned on Bush.

Posted by: ... at May 19, 2022 03:06 PM (oA0xt)

188 181 @MalcolmNance - May 18

I'm safe enough. Take care of America till I get back.
Posted by: Jane D'oh

What a prancing ponce

Posted by: vmom stabby stabby stabby stabby stabamillion at May 19, 2022 03:06 PM (kf6Ak)

189 So. Where are the Russian POWs?
Posted by: trev006 at May 19, 2022 03:02 PM (Lo2B3)

There weren't any major encirclements by the Ukrainiansof Russian forces so likely they don't have many. There have been prisoner exchanges to date.

On the other side we were able to see the progression of pockets collapsing as the Russians were operating in the East.

Posted by: Someguy's at May 19, 2022 03:06 PM (7Wvyk)

190 The real question now is:

Is the Toyota truck superior to the tank (or at least Russian tanks and their variants) in 21st century warfare?

Remember you have to refuel the thing...

Posted by: William Eaton at May 19, 2022 03:06 PM (YvunV)

191
probably parked right off the east and west coast

and no advanced warning of their launch

__________

I'd like to think the US Navy is keeping tabs on them. As in, reduce them to scrap iron if things get frisky.

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at May 19, 2022 03:07 PM (/U27+)

192 and in a way you'd almost want a nuclear power to be conventionally stronger, so that it wouldn't feel the need to lash out with its nukes due to its weakness.

Posted by: ace at May 19, 2022 02:55 PM (0G13K)
==
This is why we are so interested in them getting stalled out in Ukraine, so we don't run into them in the Baltics or Romania or Poland, where we have troops stationed. Now whether to believe the Russian Colonel is a fair question. But we figured Maripul would fall, but the offensive has stalled out the southern sweep Russia was banking on, resulting in losses up north when they transferred resources south. We know these things have happened. Satellite data tells us this, so the Colonel may be somewhat truthful.

They are definitely a third rate conventional power at this point. And yes, with nukes.

But maybe Putin is in a bit of domestic trouble, to your point.

Posted by: Black JEM at May 19, 2022 03:07 PM (LyTO1)

193 Remember, we immediately offered to evacuate Zelensky when the war started.
Posted by: The ARC of History! at May 19, 2022 03:00 PM (I2/tG)

Now we're flying in Senators and Congressmen at will
Posted by: It's me donna at May 19, 2022 03:02 PM (bs+z0)

Well yeah. If they can't kiss his arse here, all the senators and congresscritters have to go there to kiss his arse.

Posted by: BurtTC at May 19, 2022 03:07 PM (YV6PJ)

194 I thought Ukraine was winning for sure because you can bet your ass the US dem politicians who trotted over there to get a photo op wouldn't put themselves in harm's way.

Also didn't U2 play a concert there?

Doesn't sound very dangerous.

Posted by: Seems Legit at May 19, 2022 03:08 PM (DcKNO)

195 i mean, if there were 1700 troops surrendering, the Russians would have taken photos, right?

Posted by: ace at May 19, 2022 03:01 PM (0G13K)

What are you saying? That they haven't surrendered? That they died in a heroic last stand? I would say visit
TheSaker or RT for videos of the buses leaving, but by now you should realize that Western media definitely isn't going to focus on Mariupol. As with Snake Island's Ukrainian garrison being taken prisoner by the Russians very early on, this is one more debacle the corporat media desperately want us to forget as the BODY COUNT keeps inflating.

Posted by: trev006 at May 19, 2022 03:08 PM (Lo2B3)

196 >>>You've heard of the ghost cities with unfinished apartments right? Just a concrete shell that employed millions of construction workers that are unused/empty now.

Now apply that same logic to Chinese military equipment, good odds it is almost as junkie as Russian gear. (It's probably a step up because they've stolen so much tech, but not on par to The West).

Posted by: Scott_T at May 19, 2022 02:54 PM (2waQ7)

Correct. China is so fooked up, that those ghost cities are in fact INVESTMENT properties in which they don't want to finish them because it would... get this... LOWER THE VALUE. I know that sounds nuts, but it's the truth.

So, knowing how screwed up that place is, the only logical conclusion anyone can make about China and Russia invading territories they believe they are owed is because WE told them they could. In fact, we know for certain Putin was told exactly that, in public. If China decides to move on Taiwan, it's because they were told they can by the Pentagon.

Posted by: In Reel Life (yes, dummy, on purpose) at May 19, 2022 03:08 PM (QYPq3)

197 ** I think I've seen people questioning if China's army is all that, and/or questioning if China is questioning that. A lot of their stuff is Russia-pattern, right?

-----------

Chinese tanks won't fail because their gas tankers' won't be riding on cheap Chinese tires that easily shred on the road & leave the gas stranded in the middle of nowhere, but instead they'll be using good ol' Made in the USA tires.

/Possible Misinformation, so I renounce myself ...

Posted by: ShainS -- Welcome to the boneyard, we got fun & games & Starveflation aims at May 19, 2022 03:09 PM (JJsNX)

198 Also didn't U2 play a concert there?

Doesn't sound very dangerous.
Posted by: Seems Legit at May 19, 2022 03:08 PM (DcKNO)

It is to ones ears... They're God awful

Posted by: It's me donna at May 19, 2022 03:09 PM (bs+z0)

199 Remember, we immediately offered to evacuate Zelensky when the war started.
Posted by: The ARC of History! at May 19, 2022 03:00 PM (I2/tG)

Now we're flying in Senators and Congressmen at will
Posted by: It's me donna at May 19, 2022 03:02 PM (bs+z0)

---------

They went over to get their grift from the 40B we sent Ukraine. Jill went over for a photo op with Zelensky's wife because Joey would have embarrassed himself and us.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at May 19, 2022 03:09 PM (ptqGC)

200 We're still pretending America is one.

It's not that I want to defend Russia. I don't. But the level of alarm evinced by some that Russia is a more authoritarian kleptocracy than the Western kleptocracies is kind of funny, especially being that it comes from people who insist that last election here was stolen, that the current administration is illegitimate, and that our government in general is compromised by foreign interests, that a unholy union of government-media-entertainment-corporations squelch free speech with impunity, and that we are teetering on a knife's edge between civilization and barbarity right here in the good old US of A. The Russia, Russia, Russia Current Thing seems like a 2-minute hate to me.

Posted by: bear with asymmetrical balls at May 19, 2022 03:09 PM (ppBhU)

201 How many of those Senators and congress persons going to Ukraine will be coming home with pretty 13 year olds?

Posted by: N.L. Urker, my trench is full of chickens at May 19, 2022 03:09 PM (eGTCV)

202 Now we're flying in Senators and Congressmen at will
Posted by: It's me donna at May 19, 2022 03:02 PM (bs+z0)

Would be a shame if Putin nuked Kiev/Kyiv/Kevin while they were all there.

Posted by: vmom stabby stabby stabby stabby stabamillion at May 19, 2022 03:09 PM (kf6Ak)

203
Arguing about whether Potential Enemy A is as corrupt as Potential Enemy B is weird. Is A >> B? Or vice versa?

Doesn't matter. If corruption is the issue, if corruption makes you lose wars (it doesn't), then we're fucked. The US is more corrupt than Russia or China. Russia and China have some things that aren't for sale.

Posted by: Deep Thoughts at May 19, 2022 03:09 PM (o0I+B)

204 The interesting question is what Russia gets by conquering what used to be a functioning steel-making complex, but is now a wasteland. They say they'll turn it into a park. Yeah, because Russia has so little land.

I wonder what the mothers of their dead think about having their sons die for a park. Scratch that, I don't.

Posted by: Archimedes at May 19, 2022 03:10 PM (ZsR3z)

205 The Russia, Russia, Russia Current Thing seems like a 2-minute hate to me.
Posted by: bear with asymmetrical balls

Yup.

Posted by: vmom stabby stabby stabby stabby stabamillion at May 19, 2022 03:10 PM (kf6Ak)

206 The Soviets ( Russians) were just as nasty with their POWS as the Nazis were
Posted by: JoeF. at May 19, 2022 03:05 PM (mR6Gs)

Arguably even worse. It:s hard to blame them, but that's why a cycle of brutality tends to feed upon itself. Video of Ukrainians executing Russian prisoners was put out a month ago, so let's see if the Russians are going to honor the surrender of their Ukrainian POWs.

Posted by: trev006 at May 19, 2022 03:10 PM (Lo2B3)

207 Russia will pop off some nukes over the EU and Anglosphere if they have to (and they will IMHO). They have to win to survive as a country. NATO backed them into a corner with 32? known biolabs on top of everything else ffs.
This is far from over. Its just beginning.

Posted by: Heavy Squats at May 19, 2022 03:10 PM (+ps/2)

208 How many of those Senators and congress persons going to Ukraine will be coming home with pretty 13 year olds?
Posted by: N.L. Urker, my trench is full of chickens at May 19, 2022 03:09 PM (eGTCV)

Ummmmm....All of them.

Posted by: Hairyback Guy at May 19, 2022 03:11 PM (VghRo)

209 Not exactly on topic, but I'm shocked they are letting Joe go to Asia... Aren't they afraid someone will try to ask him questions ?

Posted by: It's me donna at May 19, 2022 03:11 PM (bs+z0)

210 194 I thought Ukraine was winning for sure because you can bet your ass the US dem politicians who trotted over there to get a photo op wouldn't put themselves in harm's way.

Also didn't U2 play a concert there?

Doesn't sound very dangerous.
Posted by: Seems Legit at May 19, 2022 03:08 PM (DcKNO)

The conflict was most intense in the first few days and became less active after the Russians followed through on their announced withdrawal from the area around Kiev and other parts of north Ukraine.

Right now Russia seems to be slowly trying to envelop the remainder of a province they were targetting in their list of war demands. It's moving slowly.

Posted by: Someguy's at May 19, 2022 03:11 PM (7Wvyk)

211 Some days MUMR makes sense. Must be new meds.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at May 19, 2022 03:11 PM (ptqGC)

212 I'd like to think the US Navy is keeping tabs on them.

-
Look, our intelligence assets can either be used to keep an eye on Russia and China or to make sure uppity parents don't let their kids use the wrong pronoun.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks aka Hangdog Barkston at May 19, 2022 03:11 PM (FVME7)

213 169 Look at Korea... we had the vastly superior tech; and once we got over the sup-rise of North Korea's invasion, we easily rolled them once we got the troops there.
-------------
Mmm, the 42nd Infantry Regiment broke and ran. This allowed the Army position to be flanked in the west. The Marines in the east fought a controlled withrawal from the Yalu to eventually the 38th Parralell. MacArthur's plan was to nuke them. Not sure you can call this a win.

BTW - the 42nd Inf Div was a black division.

Posted by: Puddin Head at May 19, 2022 03:11 PM (D8mow)

214 Retired Russian Colonel Tells State Media: We're Losing This War and We Should Get Out Of It

My first thought is remembering all the "retired US military generals", celebrated by the US media, speaking out against Bush 43 during OEF and OIF in an effort to undermine the war efforts.

How many of them were shot by Bush?

Posted by: Archimedes at May 19, 2022 03:11 PM (ZsR3z)

215 I don't think I have to "believe Putin" when I see with my own eyes that DC is expressing both that Ukraine is kicking Russia's ass (Russia is a "paper dragon") AND that Russia's going to roll over NATO (i.e. succeed) if we take our eye off of Ukraine.

Both are not likely to be true. This is where we revisit the atheist credo "extraordinary claims need extraordinary evidence".

(Again, atheists aren't usually equipt to think of how broadly their mumblings may apply. Looking at you, WHATABBOUTISM!!)

Posted by: Axeman (Fuck/Off) at May 19, 2022 03:12 PM (krQz2)

216 Over/under Joey asks his South Korean hosts for some of that dog meat they're famous for.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at May 19, 2022 03:12 PM (ptqGC)

217 178 Russia has at least 11 nuke subs with appx 16 missles on board with 6 warheads probably parked right off the east and west coast and no advanced warning of their launch well, maybe a minute
Posted by: REDACTED
----------------

Russian navy, old subs, old missiles rotting underwater.
Probably blow themselves up.

Posted by: Braenyard at May 19, 2022 03:12 PM (Gqta/)

218 Million man army is bullshit, sorry. I have no idea what's going on in this war and no one should believe anything they read or hear, the media is that far gone.

Posted by: Indignacio Vindacatorem at May 19, 2022 03:12 PM (oWBc3)

219 So, knowing how screwed up that place is, the only logical conclusion anyone can make about China and Russia invading territories they believe they are owed is because WE told them they could. In fact, we know for certain Putin was told exactly that, in public. If China decides to move on Taiwan, it's because they were told they can by the Pentagon.
Posted by: In Reel Life (yes, dummy, on purpose) at May 19, 2022 03:08 PM (QYPq3)

To me it makes more sense for China to make a move into Siberia or central Asia while Russia is occupied in the east.

Posted by: moon_over_vermont at May 19, 2022 03:12 PM (NxOLn)

220 How many of those Senators and congress persons going to Ukraine will be coming home with pretty 13 year olds?
Posted by: N.L. Urker, my trench is full of chickens at May 19, 2022 03:09 PM (eGTCV)

I don't think we have any evidence that all or any of them, really, have to be pretty.

Posted by: BurtTC at May 19, 2022 03:13 PM (YV6PJ)

221 The Russia, Russia, Russia Current Thing seems like a 2-minute hate to me.
Posted by: bear with asymmetrical balls at May 19, 2022 03:09 PM (ppBhU)

Yup. If the war is looked at with any amount of objectivity, never mind the reflexive partisanship of the Iraq War, its popularity will crumble quickly. And I have a secret for you: Tucker Carlson remains the most popular Fox host despite being the most skeptical guy in their lineup. By contrast, Hannity's boosterism is much less of a draw, and the two men are barely speaking to each other.

Posted by: trev006 at May 19, 2022 03:13 PM (Lo2B3)

222 so let's see if the Russians are going to honor the surrender of their Ukrainian POWs.

The people captured at Azovstal were mostly Azov Battalion. The Russians and the two "people's republics" are already planning war crimes trials.

Posted by: The ARC of History! at May 19, 2022 03:13 PM (I2/tG)

223 A lot of the money that was supposed to go into Russian armament surely went into the pockets of his oligarch gangster pals.
__________________
That's ok, a lot of the $40b the US taxpayer is involuntarily sending to Ukraine will sure go into the pockets of Biden's oligarch gangster pals. On two continents!

We wouldn't want to simply just apply all the superior US weaponry to counter the Russians, a lot has to be siphoned off so that the Ukrainian response won't be "disproportionate".

Posted by: Chuck Martel at May 19, 2022 03:13 PM (fs1hN)

224 216 Over/under Joey asks his South Korean hosts for some of that dog meat they're famous for.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at May 19, 2022 03:12 PM (ptqGC)

-----------------
Maybe he'll let something slip about how Obama always raved about it.

Posted by: Curly Shuffle at May 19, 2022 03:13 PM (TNyrE)

225 The best army, is the one sitting on its ass, watching the armies of two other countries destroy themselves.

Hey, how's our stockpile of javelins? I know we are losing troops, but its costing us.

Posted by: China wins without fighting the more we fight at May 19, 2022 03:14 PM (ZHfIQ)

226 This time when they talk about a "theater of war", they are being less vague and conceptual.

Posted by: Axeman (Fuck/Off) at May 19, 2022 03:14 PM (krQz2)

227 The people captured at Azovstal were mostly Azov Battalion. The Russians and the two "people's republics" are already planning war crimes trials.
Posted by: The ARC of History! at May 19, 2022 03:13 PM (I2/tG)

Good.

Posted by: vmom stabby stabby stabby stabby stabamillion at May 19, 2022 03:14 PM (kf6Ak)

228 Self-serving, but appears to be borne out by events.
Posted by: The ARC of History! at May 19, 2022 03:06 PM (I2/tG)
==
The Russian command corps has been decimated by failed training. It is no longer an modernly organized outfit.

As screwed up as we are with CRT crap and few boat skippers who can't drive, if we felt it necessary no one could withstand a direct confrontation with us, including the Chinese.

Posted by: Black JEM at May 19, 2022 03:14 PM (LyTO1)

229 Greetings:

And speaking of China...which shares a really really long border with Russia...can dump its newest "ally" in a heartbeat and know it, thanks to Secretary Austin's strategic broadcast, has been weakened both militarily and economically and now ro be welcomed into that world of kowtows that is so emblematic of the Han Chinese Middle Kingdom.

Posted by: 11B40 at May 19, 2022 03:14 PM (uuklp)

230 Meanwhile the CIA has determined the Kremlin uses Charmin.

Posted by: Anna Puma at May 19, 2022 03:14 PM (2oipT)

231 Do you understand that Russia has very tightly controlled state media? Or are we now at the point we're pretending that Russia is an open society and flourishing democracy?

===

Not as tightly as China. Or as it was in Soviet times.

Posted by: runner at May 19, 2022 03:14 PM (vyw2i)

232 Has anybody else noticed that MUMR started posting a lot just as Kurt seems to have disappeared? At least, that’s the way it seems to me. Coincidence?

Posted by: Bulgaroctonus at May 19, 2022 03:15 PM (Bq+PW)

233 Zelensky, early on, declared a General Mobilization of all Ukrainian males age 18 to 60.
He was also distributing weapons.
This was a mistake, imho, and it led to many civilian deaths.

Posted by: gourmand du jour at May 19, 2022 03:15 PM (jTmQV)

234 Greetings:

Maybe it's not the Arc of History. Maybe it's a Sine Curve.

Posted by: 11B40 at May 19, 2022 03:15 PM (uuklp)

235 >>>To me it makes more sense for China to make a move into Siberia or central Asia while Russia is occupied in the east.

Posted by: moon_over_vermont at May 19, 2022 03:12 PM (NxOLn)

They've already encroached on Russia.

I'm not saying they are moving on Taiwan, just that if they do it's with the blessing of their buddies with Stars on their shoulders.

Posted by: In Reel Life (yes, dummy, on purpose) at May 19, 2022 03:15 PM (QYPq3)

236
To me it makes more sense for China to make a move into Siberia or central Asia while Russia is occupied in the east.
Posted by: moon_over_vermont at May 19, 2022 03:12 PM (NxOLn)

_________

It would have made more sense for Japan to do so in 41. But countries sometimes don't do what's sensible.

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at May 19, 2022 03:15 PM (/U27+)

237 Northern Resource Area.

Posted by: Anna Puma at May 19, 2022 03:16 PM (2oipT)

238 To me it makes more sense for China to make a move into Siberia or central Asia while Russia is occupied in the east.
Posted by: moon_over_vermont at May 19, 2022 03:12 PM (NxOLn)
==
It has been widely reported Putin told Xi they'd nuke every Chinese city if China makes any move in the East.

Posted by: Black JEM at May 19, 2022 03:16 PM (LyTO1)

239 Russia sucks at war. Always has, but Russians apparently like it even though they're no good at it, so they'll just keep on doing it - like some people with golf ... or sex.

Posted by: Match Checksout at May 19, 2022 03:17 PM (dYe5S)

240
If you want to quantify corruption, think of it this way.

Everybody in every government is corrupt. They're all on the take from someone, whether for money or personal reasons, or political ones. But how far would the given junta take it?

Would Xi Jinping commit outright treason against China? If he did, would his supporters continue to tolerate him? What about Putin and Russia? I think the answer to all four questions is "no."

Now... do America.

Posted by: Deep Thoughts at May 19, 2022 03:17 PM (o0I+B)

241 Russia has at least 11 nuke subs with appx 16 missles on board with 6 warheads probably parked right off the east and west coast

Not Russian doctrine.

Their boomers are usually at the dock, since command and control over at-sea boomers is not completely trusted. They can fire from the dock, and hit their targets.

If they deploy, it's just to the Barents Sea and under the nearby ice. They don't need to approach the United States to hit their targets.

Posted by: The ARC of History! at May 19, 2022 03:17 PM (I2/tG)

242 "** I think I've seen people questioning if China's army is all that, and/or questioning if China is questioning that. A lot of their stuff is Russia-pattern, right?

I don't know if China is as corrupt as Russia, though."

Those in the know understand that the Chinese aren't drunk Russians. Russian society was horrifically broken by the Soviets, beyond recovery. China was already broken before Mao got started and has displayed a remarkable amount of resiliency.

The Chinese military, while comically inexperienced, is highly motivated. The Chinese are also less corrupt than the Russians to the point that they can maintain actual technological innovation and see it through to series production of military hardware. The Russians haven't had meaningful series production since the 90's and even that was a last gasp.

re: Ukraine - it was evident Russia was in a world of shit from day 3 or 4 of the conflict.

Posted by: somedood - skull mountain sherpa at May 19, 2022 03:17 PM (/z9fK)

243 @gregmyre1 - 4h

Emotional scene at the war crimes trial in Kyiv today. Ukrainian widow: "What did you feel when you killed my husband. Tell me, please." Russian soldier: "Fear. I understand you won't be able to forgive me. But I ask for your forgiveness."

Posted by: Jane D'oh at May 19, 2022 03:17 PM (ptqGC)

244 "I don't know if China is as corrupt as Russia, though."

Communist China is at least as corrupt as Russia. You haven't been able to do anything in China without paying off one of the "princelings", children of top CCP members.

Add in the one child police means that pretty much every single soldier they have is an only child, an only son, and the "hope of the future" for 6 adults (parents and grandparents).

So China's corrupt AND extremely risk adverse, at least for anything that's going to last beyond a week or two, and thus give parents time to mobilize

Posted by: Greg The Class Traitor at May 19, 2022 03:17 PM (zgZhw)

245 I think I need to play more Arma II to see what's going on in Ukraine.

Posted by: Axeman (Fuck/Off) at May 19, 2022 03:17 PM (krQz2)

246 The people captured at Azovstal were mostly Azov Battalion. The Russians and the two "people's republics" are already planning war crimes trials.
Posted by: The ARC of History! at May 19, 2022 03:13 PM (I2/tG)

I'm sure, but that doesn't mean they're all Azov. Maybe the Russians are planning to dust off the anti-Hitlerite playbook, but if that was the case all transport links in Ukraine would be completely destroyed, and you'd see REAL attacks on civilians.

By the way, if the Azov crowd really believed the Russians were lighting up 100k civilian casualties, they would shoot themselves before surrendering. It's just not smart to turn yourself in to the devil.

Posted by: trev006 at May 19, 2022 03:17 PM (Lo2B3)

247 It would have made more sense for Japan to do so in 41.

The original Hitler likely thought so.

Posted by: G'rump928(c) at May 19, 2022 03:17 PM (yQpMk)

248 There's a lot of strategic merit to China pushing Russia out of Asia, Cental Asia is a particularl point where they duel for influence. As long as the US is the chief threat to both of them, it probably won't happen. Also India is there ready to join in.

Posted by: Someguy's at May 19, 2022 03:18 PM (7Wvyk)

249 >>>What are you saying? That they haven't surrendered? That they died in a heroic last stand? I would say visit
TheSaker or RT for videos of the buses leaving, but by now you should realize that Western media definitely isn't going to focus on Mariupol.

I don't know, I read something about the Russians permitting a "Humanitarian corridor." Maybe that was just for the wounded or something. I don't know. You may be right. OTOH Zelensky told the defenders to start exfiltrating themselves out a few days ago so maybe it was mostly the non-ambulatory wounded left behind.

You don't believe the west and the neocons; I get that. but can you please accept that maybe some of us don't believe the fucking RUSSIANS, either?

Posted by: ace at May 19, 2022 03:18 PM (0G13K)

250 I believe no one in this scenario. And there is no winner. Putin overestimated the effectiveness of his "minor incursion." The insanely complex hodgepodge of interests and powerbrokers in Ukraine has only gotten more so with the infusion of western $billions. China has a new partner. US-Russian relations have taken a major step backward. NATO's mission and reliability has shown itself to be tepid and uncoordinated. And the globalists' favored entanglements of western food and energy production with untrustworthy actors has brought us to near chaos.

The whole thing is FUBAR, and those in charge are, naturally, pushing for more of the same.

Posted by: red speck at May 19, 2022 03:18 PM (gS3OW)

251 If you want to watch some footage which is banned from American media and social media, UK Column News does a pretty decent job of cutting through the bullshit.

Plenty of footage of Ukrainian soldiers at Azovstal being loaded on busses and treated by Russian medical teams.

Plus lots more. They put up a daily news video that is pretty based.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger at May 19, 2022 03:19 PM (v31Ye)

252 >>>I think I need to play more Arma II to see what's going on in Ukraine.

Posted by: Axeman (Fuck/Off) at May 19, 2022 03:17 PM (krQz2)

You don't even have to play it. Our own generals will post it on Tw@tter for you.

Posted by: In Reel Life (yes, dummy, on purpose) at May 19, 2022 03:19 PM (QYPq3)

253 Really tempted to write a book about this, but I'll try to keep it short and to-the-point.

1. Soviet military strength varied widely over the course of the Cold War, but you can't trace a straight line back from today to then because of the apocalypse of the '90s. Officers and men went unpaid for long periods of times, huge numbers of high-quality career officers left the service for good, maintenance and acquisition activities dwindled practically to nothing, and so on. All of that marks a pretty sharp discontinuity in the Army as an institution.

2. Westerners often seem obsessed with counting rivets on hardware, but it's stuff like training, morale, doctrine, and staff quality that wins wars. The Russians started this war with no plan B after their elite forces were supposed to kick in the Ukrainians' face in a day.

That led to kids who were told they were going home after an exercise getting pitched out the side of a BTR into enemy fire with little warning or preparation. Critical, routine staff work seems to be being done very poorly. Persistent logistical problems robbed the Russians of the use of artillery for much of the early phase of the war...

Posted by: Directrix Gazer at May 19, 2022 03:19 PM (dAKhf)

254 Russia sucks at war.

Ahem.

Posted by: Suvorov, Kutuzov, Zhukov! at May 19, 2022 03:19 PM (I2/tG)

255 While making no claims about knowing anything in real-time in Ukraine, there was a gruesome heuristic for knowing that the headlines weren't quite accurate.

Simultaneous with "Haha! The Russians can't hurt a fly!", there were videos landing of them picking up scores of dead Ukrainian troops. That was later reflected by Russian troop dispositions around places like Kherson.

Posted by: Harlock at May 19, 2022 03:19 PM (RCySr)

256 What's interesting is we seem to be "circling back" to Ukraine as a thing - guess Buffalo is a flop except in New York. As for Russia's Vindman, totally credible.

Posted by: Indignacio Vindacatorem at May 19, 2022 03:19 PM (oWBc3)

257 Why does Safari fail so miserably for displaying Ace?

Posted by: Actually Inside the Beltway at May 19, 2022 03:20 PM (roPuI)

258
Korea is our longest duration "cease-fire", I think.
Posted by: gourmand du jour

We're still on a smoke break.

Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at May 19, 2022 03:20 PM (63Dwl)

259 "** I think I've seen people questioning if China's army is all that, and/or questioning if China is questioning that. A lot of their stuff is Russia-pattern, right?

I don't know if China is as corrupt as Russia, though."

I've said this for a while. China is the land of 'not quite good enough' when it comes to most of their country-made goods. It really wouldn't surprise me if, should they decide to invade Taiwan, that half their fleet would just spring leaks and sink halfway to that republic.

Other than sheer numbers, I don't think that the CCP is all that.

Posted by: Darrell Harris at May 19, 2022 03:20 PM (Z5e9a)

260 @thetimes

The last defenders of Mariupol have been taken to a Russian prison colony where they face trial as "Nazi was criminals"

Posted by: Jane D'oh at May 19, 2022 03:20 PM (ptqGC)

261 233 Zelensky, early on, declared a General Mobilization of all Ukrainian males age 18 to 60.
He was also distributing weapons.
This was a mistake, imho, and it led to many civilian deaths.
Posted by: gourmand du jour at May 19, 2022 03:15 PM (jTmQV)

It also bypassed the Geneva Convention where Legal Combatants need to wear some identifying device AND be under some form of Command and Control.

Just giving guns to civilians sets the stage for atrocities... on both sides.

Posted by: Romeo13 at May 19, 2022 03:20 PM (oHd/0)

262 Without Studebaker and Bell, wither the might of Soviet military?

Posted by: Anna Puma at May 19, 2022 03:20 PM (2oipT)

263 The king is nearly dead, and has been for centuries now.

Posted by: Douglas Adams at May 19, 2022 03:20 PM (/81oX)

264 179 132 And the Senate just voted to give Ukraine 40 billion more while Babies here can't get formula... Only 11 repubs voted no
Posted by: It's me donna at May 19, 2022 02:58 PM (bs+z0)

And on that note I'm out. Got no more fucks to give where Repubs are concerned.

Just saw a story on the local news about the OK state budget getting approved 9.8 billion.
So we are giving them enough to run our state for 4 years. 40 Billion likes it's nothing.

Posted by: Ronald James Dio at May 19, 2022 03:20 PM (2cfUo)

265 ...and even now their preparatory fires are seeming very weak and ill-planned, and their supporting fires not responsive or effective, especially considering the sheer number of tubes in the modern Russian field unit organizations.

Posted by: Directrix Gazer at May 19, 2022 03:20 PM (dAKhf)

266 If corruption is the issue, if corruption makes you lose wars (it doesn't), then we're fucked. The US is more corrupt than Russia or China. Russia and China have some things that aren't for sale.

Posted by: Deep Thoughts at May 19, 2022 03:09 PM (o0I+B)

It's not so much the corruption that's the problem, it's that the Democrats/Uniparty have proven time and again they will sell our country's silver.

Posted by: ... at May 19, 2022 03:20 PM (oA0xt)

267 If anyone thinks Xi and Putin are getting along or that China is cheering on the Russians, they aren't. They just watched their strategy for taking Tiawan fall apart.

China is done, just a matter of how it happens now. Oh, and what happens to Xi in the porcess.

Posted by: Black JEM at May 19, 2022 03:21 PM (LyTO1)

268 I don't know, I read something about the Russians permitting a "Humanitarian corridor."

The corridor is into Russian held territory.

Posted by: G'rump928(c) at May 19, 2022 03:21 PM (yQpMk)

269 "I think I've seen people questioning if China's army is all that, and/or questioning if China is questioning that. A lot of their stuff is Russia-pattern, right?"

Chinese equipment used to be knock-offs of Soviet stuff. That's not the case anymore. China's defense industry makes its own designs these days, though some of the internal components might still be blatant copies of foreign equipment. Case in point is China's aircraft carrier program. Their first carrier was purchased. Their second was a home-built copy of the first (with some small improvements). But their third carrier (which is under construction) will be completely their own thing.

The question is the quality of their gear and their troops. I don:t know what their quality is like, but the general reputation of Chinese-made goods does not inspire one with confidence. As for their troops...

There are videos that purport to be of Chinese troops being shipped to the site of the border conflict with India. And the troops are crying because they're going to be fighting. Are the videos legit? I don't know. But a lot of people think they are.

Posted by: junior at May 19, 2022 03:21 PM (FYGBb)

270 The Durham thing (not seemingly connecting the entirety of the traitorous activities and personnel) is just like finding one election offense and saying "See? Just a lone wolf, so nothing to see here".

Sessions' had that omg I shan't believe the corruption herein thing, too.

Also, Trump lacks, imo, the ruthless that is needed to 'root and branch' this illegitimate government.

Posted by: micky at May 19, 2022 03:21 PM (3byMq)

271 230 Meanwhile the CIA has determined the Kremlin uses Charmin.

Posted by: Anna Puma at May 19, 2022 03:14 PM (2oipT)

------------

That will be John Brennan's legacy, along with him being a treasonous piece of shit commie bastard -- but mostly ...

Posted by: ShainS -- Welcome to the boneyard, we got fun & games & Starveflation aims at May 19, 2022 03:21 PM (JJsNX)

272 Plenty of footage of Ukrainian soldiers at Azovstal being loaded on busses and treated by Russian medical teams.

If the Russians have any hopes of avoiding a permanent guerilla war in Donbas, they will need to demonstrate some humanity. Perhaps that's what's happening.

Posted by: Archimedes at May 19, 2022 03:22 PM (ZsR3z)

273
Ahem.
Posted by: Suvorov, Kutuzov, Zhukov! at May 19, 2022 03:19 PM (I2/tG)

________

If they win (a big if) it's after they've tried everything else.

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at May 19, 2022 03:22 PM (/U27+)

274 As screwed up as we are with CRT crap and few boat skippers who can't drive, if we felt it necessary no one could withstand a direct confrontation with us, including the Chinese.
==
Except we are sending all our munitions to fight POOtin.

hard to fight without ammo/missiles

Ancient chinese secret - make enemies fight, and borrow money from you to do it. When they run out of men/ammo you may choose whether to attack or simply receive the spoils of the conflict in debt payments.

Silly round eyes.

Posted by: China wins without fighting the more we fight at May 19, 2022 03:22 PM (AehvQ)

275 We didn't give Ukraine 40 billion of our tax dollars.

We have Ukraine 40 billion of China's dollars.

That we can't repay.

Which should tell you all of this is funny money.

Posted by: AlaBAMA at May 19, 2022 03:23 PM (VJFAr)

276 China is getting more involved in Middle East scuffles (anti-terrorism) to give their troops experience.

Posted by: Someguy's at May 19, 2022 03:23 PM (7Wvyk)

277 Russia has been bragging/threatening that they have (or are building) the nuke submarines that can move slowly, undetected to multiple coastlines. They could then be set off, a nuke that is (allegedly) twice the size of their gigantic Tsar Bomba, yielding a 150 meter high tsunami could wipe out most nations.

fact or fiction, idk. But with that and Iran, lots of end of the world as we know it scenarios dancing in our heads.

Posted by: illiniwek at May 19, 2022 03:23 PM (Cus5s)

278 The real question is if we were ever to start bombing China, do they make their bomb shelters better than their normal concrete buildings.

The Marxist-fascist Empire should hope so.

Posted by: Axeman at May 19, 2022 03:23 PM (krQz2)

279 Russian navy, old subs, old missiles rotting underwater.
Probably blow themselves up.

Posted by: Braenyard at May 19, 2022 03:12 PM (Gqta/)
---
And it'll somehow be Trump's fault.

Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at May 19, 2022 03:23 PM (YIVH2)

280 If Russia ran as is often claimed, there would only be one guy left by now.

Posted by: Harlock at May 19, 2022 03:23 PM (RCySr)

281 * throws chicken bones against the wall *
* smokes DMT *
* machine elves read and translate the chicken bones to me *

It's over Estonia Bros.

Posted by: Heavy Squats at May 19, 2022 03:23 PM (+ps/2)

282 Just giving guns to civilians sets the stage for atrocities... on both sides.
Posted by: Romeo13 at May 19, 2022 03:20 PM (oHd/0)
==
In fairness, no one in Eastern Europe is well known for their attention to details around the niceties of war.

Posted by: Black JEM at May 19, 2022 03:23 PM (LyTO1)

283 Like many here have said... There is no good guy in this

Posted by: It's me donna at May 19, 2022 03:23 PM (bs+z0)

284 Ace if you love Ukraine so much, why don't you move there?

Posted by: ... at May 19, 2022 03:23 PM (oA0xt)

285 >>>Ahem.
Posted by: Suvorov, Kutuzov, Zhukov!

Yep. They mostly sucked too. Sometimes even the bad ones draw lucky.

Posted by: Match Checksout at May 19, 2022 03:23 PM (dYe5S)

286 China is getting more involved in Middle East scuffles (anti-terrorism) to give their troops experience.

Posted by: Someguy's at May 19, 2022 03:23 PM (7Wvyk)

And they have Bagram Air Base. So there's that.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at May 19, 2022 03:23 PM (ptqGC)

287 I lived in the Soviet Union for a year. No one who put up with Russian plumbing was afraid of the Red Army. It was always about the nukes.

Posted by: Simon Jester at May 19, 2022 03:24 PM (BSu3l)

288 You don't believe the west and the neocons; I get that. but can you please accept that maybe some of us don't believe the fucking RUSSIANS, either?

In this case, it seems pretty clear that the Russians captured the Ukrainian soldiers fighting in a completely surrounded steel mill.

All the talk of "evacuation", "exfiltration", and "exchange" is just desperate Ukrainian spin.

You don't have to think that the Russians are generally truthful to think that they really did capture Ukrainian soldiers in a completely surrounded position.

Posted by: Suvorov, Kutuzov, Zhukov! at May 19, 2022 03:24 PM (I2/tG)

289 The Durham thing (not seemingly connecting the entirety of the traitorous activities and personnel) is just like finding one election offense and saying "See? Just a lone wolf, so nothing to see here".
-------

Got it in one.

Posted by: ... at May 19, 2022 03:24 PM (oA0xt)

290
and who weren't willing to push the kind of cultural changes necessary to secure Afghanistan.
Posted by: Colorado Alex in Exile at May 19, 2022 03:01 PM (wmDcS)

All your other points are right on the money, but the only way to bring about the necessary cultural changes in Outhousestan would be to ruthlessly genocide the whole population. And even then, it wouldn't work (Alexander the Great tried, but failed).

That's the one of the few places in the world where guerrilla warfare actually works WITHOUT transitioning over into conventional war, with organized armies in the field. Not because the Afghans are some kind of warfare savants, but simply because they aren't happy unless they're busy slitting throats and being savages. If they don't have a foreign invader to fight, they fight among themselves.

The only reason their culture matters is because of their geographic position.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at May 19, 2022 03:24 PM (n+4am)

291 33 -- I loved Vangelis's music -- then discovered he was a raging anti-Semite. I grit my teeth very hard and bought Intrada's recreated version of Blade Runner anyway, figuring Vangelis wasn't getting that much money from it. But I haven't bought anything of his since.

Posted by: Captain Josepha Sabin -- I wasn't particularly fond of the '70s the first time around at May 19, 2022 03:24 PM (sjtZ7)

292 Yes, we are depleting our missile stores. But CHina will be a naval war- none of that is going to Ukraine. China has no desire to meet us at sea, unless they just want to lose all their ships.

Posted by: Black JEM at May 19, 2022 03:24 PM (LyTO1)

293
If the Russians have any hopes of avoiding a permanent guerilla war in Donbas, they will need to demonstrate some humanity. Perhaps that's what's happening.
Posted by: Archimedes at May 19, 2022 03:22 PM (ZsR3z)

Donbas is Russian. The Russians apparently understand that fighting a forever war is a bad thing and so largely didn't aim at holding non-ethnic Russian populated territory.

Posted by: Someguy's at May 19, 2022 03:24 PM (7Wvyk)

294 China is certainly as corrupt as Russia.

Anything they have isn't a surprise to the US because we had it first they stole and copied it.

We pretend it's a new thing.

China will fail, just like Russia did. Not because they are corrupt, but because they aren't free.

We will fail too.. unless we take our country back.

Posted by: Inogame at May 19, 2022 03:24 PM (53oGX)

295 264 179 132 And the Senate just voted to give Ukraine 40 billion more while Babies here can't get formula... Only 11 repubs voted no
Posted by: It's me donna at May 19, 2022 02:58 PM (bs+z0)

And on that note I'm out. Got no more fucks to give where Repubs are concerned.

Just saw a story on the local news about the OK state budget getting approved 9.8 billion.
So we are giving them enough to run our state for 4 years. 40 Billion likes it's nothing.
Posted by: Ronald James Dio at May 19, 2022 03:20 PM (2cfUo)

Meanwhile, Trump only wanted 5 billion to get the Wall built, and Republicans balked at the price tag. Oh, and those conservative 'heroes' like Ted Cruz and Tom Cotton - not to mention Tim and Rick Scott - voted Yes to giving UKR that 40-large.

Posted by: Darrell Harris at May 19, 2022 03:24 PM (Z5e9a)

296
Unless Taiwan goes nuclear, China will smash them. Probably very soon.

The better question, the one nobody seems to discuss is "what about India?"

I think that'll be a far tougher row to hoe than any other, and the more aggressive China becomes, the likelier it is that they'll have to try.

Posted by: Deep Thoughts at May 19, 2022 03:25 PM (o0I+B)

297 Russia's stated goal was to liberate and defend Luhansk and Donetsk. They've done that and they now also own Zaporizhia and Kherson oblasts.

They've completed a land bridge to Crimea and secured its water and energy supply. They've taken away or effectively neutralized every Ukrainian Black Sea port.

Meanwhile, they've conducted a fixing attack in Kharkhiv while surrounding isolated and cut-off pockets of Ukrainian forces in the Donbas and defeating them in detail. How even our media can spin this as less than a disaster for Ukraine is beyond me. Refusing to stick their necks into urban fighting in Pro-Ukrainian cities looks like prudence to me, not incompetence. It shows they have learned from their and OUR Afghan and Iraq experiences.

Far from "incompetent", Russia has shown a shit-ton of tactical and strategic flexibility that is completely unlike their Cold War doctrine. The reorganization into Battalion Tactical Groups with artillery and air assets available to the battlefield commanders is modern, speedy and potent.

Don't let the talking heads fool you into seeing our enemies as incompetent. I guarantee you that we'll be studying this campaign for years.

Posted by: Random Internet Asshole at May 19, 2022 03:25 PM (8LP6B)

298 OTOH Zelensky told the defenders to start exfiltrating themselves out a few days ago so maybe it was mostly the non-ambulatory wounded left behind.

You don't believe the west and the neocons; I get that. but can you please accept that maybe some of us don't believe the fucking RUSSIANS, either?
Posted by: ace at May 19, 2022 03:18 PM (0G13K)

Right, seriously- you realize that the plant specifically has been completely surrounded for more than a week? Hell, apparently Ukraine was courageous enough to send helicopters right into the teeth of it. Some were destroyed, some escaped. There must have been some pretty high VIPs there.

Anyways, telling your people to "exfiltrate" when they're in a relatively isolated compound surrounded by the enemy is sadistic (and very expected of Zelensky). This isn't James Bond: Russia has been systematically annihilating buildings and "filtering" everyone left in Mariupol for weeks now. That was to catch as many Azov types as possible. You'd think that 2000 guys weren't worth that much effort, especially if Russia's losing the war...

Or maybe the Russians have their reasons.

Posted by: trev006 at May 19, 2022 03:25 PM (Lo2B3)

299 275 We didn't give Ukraine 40 billion of our tax dollars.

We have Ukraine 40 billion of China's dollars.

That we can't repay.

Which should tell you all of this is funny money.
Posted by: AlaBAMA at May 19, 2022 03:23 PM (VJFAr)

China no longer buys US debt... the Fed Res just prints money... which of course, is why we have run away inflation. That's 40 Billion more inflation.

Posted by: Romeo13 at May 19, 2022 03:25 PM (oHd/0)

300 With regards to China, it's important not to judge them by the quality of consumer-grade export goods. I work in the naval field, so that's what I'm familiar with. China manufactures around half of the total world production of merchant shipping and there, and in the realm of other high-price capital items, their quality seems to be fine, if not exceptional. That doesn't mean they don't have corruption issues or that they aren't going to discover a lot of fun unforseen issues the first time they put their military to the test somewhere, but it's still something to keep in mind.

Posted by: Directrix Gazer at May 19, 2022 03:25 PM (dAKhf)

301 Mark Levin will take credit for this.

Posted by: Tasty Burger at May 19, 2022 03:25 PM (N/oGZ)

302 There are videos that purport to be of Chinese troops being shipped to the site of the border conflict with India. And the troops are crying because they're going to be fighting. Are the videos legit? I don't know. But a lot of people think they are.
Posted by: junior at May 19, 2022 03:21 PM (FYGBb)
---
I've also seen a number of reports of Chinese forces being absolutely dominated by India in a few of their border clashes.

Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at May 19, 2022 03:25 PM (YIVH2)

303 Yep. They mostly sucked too. Sometimes even the bad ones draw lucky.

Paris, 1814; Berlin 1945.

Pretty good for such a shitty army.

Posted by: Suvorov, Kutuzov, Zhukov! at May 19, 2022 03:26 PM (I2/tG)

304 Also, Trump lacks, imo, the ruthless that is needed to 'root and branch' this illegitimate government.
==
the ruthlessness needed to root and branch this illegit govt. is only available via SMOD.

TBF. I voted for Trump, and he accomplished more than I thought he would. No, I never thought he was going to save the country even if he got two terms. Its just too Fcuked up.

Posted by: Ghengis Khan wouldn't have the stones necessary at May 19, 2022 03:26 PM (ushHe)

305 Like many here have said... There is no good guy in this

Maybe, but only one country invaded another.

Posted by: Archimedes at May 19, 2022 03:26 PM (ZsR3z)

306 Neon_Bluebeard at May 19, 2022 02:53 PM (Ef6U+)

This commenter is correct. The current treatment of this topic counts as one of the most uninformed posts ever seen at this site.

Posted by: some guy out west at May 19, 2022 03:26 PM (GS66S)

307 "Fine, if not exceptional" may be a confusing phrasing, I mean it in the sense of "acceptable but not outstanding."

Posted by: Directrix Gazer at May 19, 2022 03:26 PM (dAKhf)

308 We didn't give Ukraine 40 billion of our tax dollars.

Posted by: AlaBAMA at May 19, 2022 03:23 PM (VJFAr)
---
The Democrats are laundering ~40 billion US tax dollars in Ukraine. They're getting ready to be your new oligarchs.

Now, I'm not saying that none of those billions aren't going to the war. They probably will spend robustly for that kind of cover for their normal laundering.

Posted by: Axeman at May 19, 2022 03:26 PM (krQz2)

309 Welp, Imonna go buy some more "deer proof" plants to replace the ones the deer ate. Have to move them up on the deck.

Later.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at May 19, 2022 03:27 PM (ptqGC)

310 China no longer buys US debt... the Fed Res just prints money... which of course, is why we have run away inflation. That's 40 Billion more inflation.
Posted by: Romeo13 at May 19, 2022 03:25 PM (oHd/0)

According to Rand Paul, we just borrowed 40 billion from them.

Posted by: AlaBAMA at May 19, 2022 03:27 PM (VJFAr)

311 >>>In this case, it seems pretty clear that the Russians captured the Ukrainian soldiers fighting in a completely surrounded steel mill.

All the talk of "evacuation", "exfiltration", and "exchange" is just desperate Ukrainian spin.

...

I gotta admit you guys are starting to make sense

Posted by: ace at May 19, 2022 03:27 PM (0G13K)

312 Is this like one of those retired American Generals who swore trump was crazy and would start WWIII?

Posted by: Cat Ass Trophy at May 19, 2022 03:27 PM (R8uWY)

313
What if this whole thing is just some WWF pro-wrestling hoax on the global scale?

Russia is playing the "Heel," while ukraine is the "babyface."

It's "entertainment" for us. It gives people something to "stand with." And, most of all, it's a massive Wealth Re-Distribution scam.

Look at who is getting rich off this nonsense.
And why is Russia pussyfootin' this so-called invasion?

Posted by: Soothsayer, the #1 name in news at May 19, 2022 03:27 PM (5fcxz)

314 The idea that the Chinese are watching their plans fall apart, because of what's happening in Ukraine is... well...

It's likely informing Beijing.

Scenario: They don't invade. They blockade.

Posted by: Harlock at May 19, 2022 03:27 PM (RCySr)

315 I've also seen a number of reports of Chinese forces being absolutely dominated by India in a few of their border clashes.
Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at May 19, 2022 03:25 PM (YIVH2)

Both India and China report victory in their regular brawls. And they are brawls, generally not shooting.

Posted by: Someguy's at May 19, 2022 03:27 PM (7Wvyk)

316 296
Unless Taiwan goes nuclear, China will smash them. Probably very soon.

The better question, the one nobody seems to discuss is "what about India?"

Posted by: Deep Thoughts at May 19, 2022 03:25 PM (o0I+B)

I doubt the first. China can afford patience, and they really don't like the idea of becoming the next Saddam Hussein (or Putin, for that matter). Read Unrestricted Warfare.

As for the second, the mongoloids in charge of the Biden regime are doing everything to drive India into a partnership with China, Russia, and Iran. Just watch: it'll happen.

Posted by: trev006 at May 19, 2022 03:27 PM (Lo2B3)

317 236
To me it makes more sense for China to make a move into Siberia or central Asia while Russia is occupied in the east.
Posted by: moon_over_vermont at May 19, 2022 03:12 PM (NxOLn)
---------------------

It was strategic
He mobilized the country physically and mentally into one unified force.

Posted by: Braenyard at May 19, 2022 03:27 PM (Gqta/)

318 >>>This commenter is correct. The current treatment of this topic counts as one of the most uninformed posts ever seen at this site.

I know, these Russians are heroes and Putin will save Christendom.

Posted by: ace at May 19, 2022 03:27 PM (0G13K)

319 To the extent that I care. (Anti-care?) I'm rootin Putin. Unlike democrats he didn't recently burn loot murder in over 30 US cities.

Posted by: Jimco Industries at May 19, 2022 03:27 PM (vloNb)

320 The most interesting thing to me is how many Ukes showed up to fight. Ukraine has lost the greatest portion of their young adult population to emigration to places like Poland. THe economy in Ukraine is very thin pickings. So I was surprised to see them put up something of a defense. How effective it was I am not really sure. Always felt the eastern invasion was a feint with the target to seize Chernobyl to prevent it from becoming an Causi Belli for NATO interference.

Posted by: Puddin Head at May 19, 2022 03:28 PM (D8mow)

321 China no longer buys US debt... the Fed Res just prints money... which of course, is why we have run away inflation. That's 40 Billion more inflation.
==
Which is part of the reason we got wu flu 'd

they got their eye on Hawaii and Alaska.

Posted by: eventually, we'll just give it to them at May 19, 2022 03:28 PM (UuYEh)

322 >>>Pretty good for such a shitty army.
Posted by: Suvorov, Kutuzov, Zhukov!

Yep. No argument from me. They did real well for such a shitty army (and country). Enthusiasm for the task counts sometimes.

Posted by: Match Checksout at May 19, 2022 03:28 PM (dYe5S)

323 Zhukov was a badass. In Allan Bullock’s Hitler and Stalin, there’s an account of how, following some military reversal that Stalin had been largely responsible for, Zhukov stormed into Stalin’s office and read him the riot act. And Stalin, knowing that he had screwed up, and that Zhukov knew more about war than he did, sat there and took it.

Posted by: Bulgaroctonus at May 19, 2022 03:28 PM (Bq+PW)

324 "If we don't stop Russia now, they'll set their sights on Moldova, the Baltics, and Poland!"

takes a small breath, speaks out of other corner of mouth:

"Russia's military is so useless and outdated we can and SHOULD ignore their bluff and start getting directly involved! They're garbage! AMERIKER, FUCK YARE!"

Posted by: Tasty Burger at May 19, 2022 03:28 PM (N/oGZ)

325 Also, Trump lacks, imo, the ruthless that is needed to 'root and branch' this illegitimate government.

Posted by: micky at May 19, 2022 03:21 PM (3byMq)

---------

I agree, but I'm not sure any one man could do what's necessary at this point given the ubiquitousness, breadth, & depth of corruption & treason that has infested The Swamp.

Out: Army of Darkness.
In: Army of Ruthlessness.

Posted by: ShainS -- Welcome to the boneyard, we got fun & games & Starveflation aims at May 19, 2022 03:29 PM (JJsNX)

326 China can afford patience, and they really don't like the idea of becoming the next Saddam Hussein (or Putin, for that matter). Read Unrestricted Warfare.

As for the second, the mongoloids in charge of the Biden regime are doing everything to drive India into a partnership with China, Russia, and Iran. Just watch: it'll happen.
Posted by: trev006 at May 19, 2022 03:27 PM (Lo2B3)

^^^ This.

Posted by: Harlock at May 19, 2022 03:29 PM (RCySr)

327
But maybe Putin is in a bit of domestic trouble, to your point.
Posted by: Black JEM at May 19, 2022 03:07 PM (LyTO1)

You mean like the dems in this country? Are the dems giving up?

Posted by: Pork Chops & Bacons at May 19, 2022 03:29 PM (Qhnrt)

328 I know, these Russians are heroes and Putin will save Christendom.

Posted by: ace at May 19, 2022 03:27 PM (0G13K)

Not exactly... He did do the invading.... The whole thing is murky... Who to believe... All I know is we are shipping shit loads of money and weapons while we are on the brink of a recession and Babies can't even get formula

Posted by: It's me donna at May 19, 2022 03:29 PM (bs+z0)

329 Inscrutable Chinese are watching every move we make and who is calling what shot.

They also know what we don't know.
They know who is really calling the shots
They know who the members of our politburo are.

Posted by: Braenyard at May 19, 2022 03:30 PM (Gqta/)

330 317 236
To me it makes more sense for China to make a move into Siberia or central Asia while Russia is occupied in the east.
Posted by: moon_over_vermont at May 19, 2022 03:12 PM (NxOLn)
------------------
Siberia is a no man's land. The Russian Far East is chock full of minerals, oil, lumber and food. Stuff China wouldn't mind losing a couple 100M Chinese to grab.

Posted by: Puddin Head at May 19, 2022 03:30 PM (D8mow)

331 And even then, it wouldn't work (Alexander the Great tried, but failed).

That's the one of the few places in the world where guerrilla warfare actually works WITHOUT transitioning over into conventional war, with organized armies in the field.

Central Asia was a Greek colony for centuries after Alexander the Great's death. The tribal politics, while old, have always been a backwater-type deal. They were the crazies in the mountains that you paid off to go raid somewhere else while you ruled the your city-state. We could have, and should have, realistically reestablished that dynamic.

Posted by: Colorado Alex in Exile at May 19, 2022 03:30 PM (wmDcS)

332
It makes no sense whatsoever, to me.

--If Russia is "losing," then it's because they Do Not Care about winning.

Of course they can crush ukraine.

Why aren't they?
Don't tell me they're out-matched. Don't tell me Russia doesn't have the funds.

Posted by: Soothsayer, the #1 name in news at May 19, 2022 03:30 PM (5fcxz)

333 You mean like the dems in this country? Are the dems giving up?
Posted by: Pork Chops & Bacons at May 19, 2022 03:29 PM (Qhn

No... They are tripling down

Posted by: It's me donna at May 19, 2022 03:30 PM (bs+z0)

334 They also know what we don't know.
They know who is really calling the shots
They know who the members of our politburo are.
-------------
That's cuz they colluded with them to launch a bio bomb on America.

Posted by: Puddin Head at May 19, 2022 03:31 PM (D8mow)

335 "In Russia, Ukraine invade YOU"

Posted by: Tasty Burger at May 19, 2022 03:31 PM (N/oGZ)

336 @236
It would have made more sense for Japan to do so in 41. But countries sometimes don't do what's sensible.

----

Japan had just gotten it's faced kicked in by the Soviets at Khalkhin Gol, and wasn't eager for a rematch. More importantly, Japan had it's hands full with trying to swallow China in a war that Tokyo hadn't really wanted in the first place. The last thing the Japanese needed was to add another front in Asia.

Posted by: junior at May 19, 2022 03:31 PM (FYGBb)

337 Central Asia was a Greek colony for centuries after Alexander the Great's death. The tribal politics, while old, have always been a backwater-type deal. They were the crazies in the mountains that you paid off to go raid somewhere else while you ruled the your city-state. We could have, and should have, realistically reestablished that dynamic.

Posted by: Colorado Alex in Exile at May 19, 2022 03:30 PM (wmDcS)

---------------------
Make Greco-Bactria Great Again

Posted by: Curly Shuffle at May 19, 2022 03:32 PM (TNyrE)

338
I'd like to take a moment to say hello to all the new nics (who totes read ace religiously in the past).

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at May 19, 2022 03:32 PM (n+4am)

339 You mean like the dems in this country? Are the dems giving up?
Posted by: Pork Chops & Bacons at May 19, 2022 03:29 PM (Qhn

---
Not while there's billions of American money to get "lost" in Ukraine.

Posted by: Axeman at May 19, 2022 03:32 PM (krQz2)

340 This commenter is correct. The current treatment of this topic counts as one of the most uninformed posts ever seen at this site.
Posted by: some guy out west at May 19, 2022 03:26 PM (GS66S)

The give and take between commenters and host here is the best. Feel free to join in with the knowledge.

Posted by: G'rump928(c) at May 19, 2022 03:32 PM (yQpMk)

341 FDR was a commie bastard but he wanted to win the war. FDR let the military do their job.

He was a wonderful comrade.

Posted by: Zombie Uncle Joe Stalin at May 19, 2022 03:32 PM (Xrfse)

342 I think I've seen people questioning if China's army is all that, and/or questioning if China is questioning that. A lot of their stuff is Russia-pattern, right?/i]

Kind of hoping not to find out. But, if I was a Taiwanese military leader I would be looking hard at underwater drones capable of sinking amphibious landing boats. And submarines, in large numbers. And the best air defense systems you can buy. And laser weapons that can knock out cruise missiles.

Posted by: Huck Follywood, Break The Teachers Unions at May 19, 2022 03:32 PM (Ijkw6)

343 Donbas is Russian. The Russians apparently understand that fighting a forever war is a bad thing and so largely didn't aim at holding non-ethnic Russian populated territory.

No, no it isn't. There are lots of Russians living there. I imagine very few of them still want anything to do with Russia, but regardless, it's Uke territory.

It would be the same as us ceding New Mexico and border TX back to Mexico.

Posted by: Archimedes at May 19, 2022 03:32 PM (ZsR3z)

344 >>>They also know what we don't know.
They know who is really calling the shots
They know who the members of our politburo are.

Posted by: Braenyard at May 19, 2022 03:30 PM (Gqta/)

Good effort.

Posted by: Donald Rumsfeld at May 19, 2022 03:32 PM (QYPq3)

345 oops...

Posted by: Huck Follywood, Break The Teachers Unions at May 19, 2022 03:32 PM (Ijkw6)

346 No... They are tripling down
Posted by: It's me donna at May 19, 2022 03:30 PM (bs+z0)

They fear they will hang otherwise.

Posted by: G'rump928(c) at May 19, 2022 03:33 PM (yQpMk)

347 The most interesting thing to me is how many Ukes showed up to fight.

Yep. Several dozen fairly senior FSB officers are currently contemplating this from prison cells - they told Putin that the Russian-speaking Ukrainians would welcome the Russian Army as liberators.

That didn't happen.

Posted by: The ARC of History! at May 19, 2022 03:33 PM (I2/tG)

348 I doubt that the Chinese were every planning for a full invasion of Taiwan. There are far better ways to get what they want. The goal is to force the west to acknowledge Chinese suzerainty over the western Pacific, including Taiwan, Japan, Korea, etc.

Posted by: Colorado Alex in Exile at May 19, 2022 03:33 PM (wmDcS)

349 I'd like to take a moment to say hello to all the new nics (who totes read ace religiously in the past).
Posted by: IllTemperedCur at May 19, 2022 03:32 PM (n+4am)

Glad I'm not the only one who noticed that.

Posted by: Jordan61 at May 19, 2022 03:33 PM (DRSnL)

350 They've completed a land bridge to Crimea and secured its water and energy supply. They've taken away or effectively neutralized every Ukrainian Black Sea port.

Meanwhile, they've conducted a fixing attack in Kharkhiv while surrounding isolated and cut-off pockets of Ukrainian forces in the Donbas and defeating them in detail.

Don't let the talking heads fool you into seeing our enemies as incompetent. I guarantee you that we'll be studying this campaign for years.
Posted by: Random Internet Asshole at May 19, 2022 03:25 PM (8LP6B)

Yes. At first I was convinced they were driving towards Odessa, but don't let the rejoicing over the Moskva fool you. Ukraine has't let ships sail since the conflict started. Which is why NATO is blubbering about a food crisis.

The Russians don't need to take Odessa, much less Kiev, and at this point they can simply shatter the Ukrainian Army then let the morale collapse do the rest of the work. Contrary to Western reports, the Russians have generally gone out of their way to preserve their numbers after the initial maneuvers.

Posted by: trev006 at May 19, 2022 03:33 PM (Lo2B3)

351 To answer Ace's question.....China is even more corrupt than Russia. I lived in China and worked there for more than a decade. One of my associates worked in Russia for years and we used to compare notes.

Another thing to consider is the failed "one child" policy of the CCP which resulted in an entire generation of spoiled, entitled brats. In that culture the children are expected to take care of thier parents in thier old age.

I imagine that "only sons" coming home in boxes is something that won't play well with the Moms, Dads and grandparents. No amount of propaganda featured in the "People's Daily" is going to wash that away.

Posted by: The Walking Dude at May 19, 2022 03:34 PM (cCxiu)

352
I've also seen a number of reports of Chinese forces being absolutely dominated by India in a few of their border clashes.
Posted by: "Perfessor" Squirrel at May 19, 2022 03:25 PM (YIVH2)

Both India and China report victory in their regular brawls. And they are brawls, generally not shooting.
Posted by: Someguy's at May 19, 2022 03:27 PM (7Wvyk)
-
Yes. The test comes in a full-scale war, not skirmishes. India will outclass them in a skirmish every time. The Indians are much better armed and trained than the Chinese.

However, the Chinese have a yuuuuge Army. Their standing Army is approx. 2.5x India's. But again - it's a shit Army. The question is whether they can overwhelm a 1+ million Indian Army, especially given their naval inferiority and their many other entanglements.

Posted by: Deep Thoughts at May 19, 2022 03:34 PM (o0I+B)

353 And even then, it wouldn't work (Alexander the Great tried, but failed).
---
As great as we might want to think European empires were. The Vedes constantly kicked our asses through history.

Don't fuck with the Indus Valley (until Britain vastly exceeded their technology, that is).

Posted by: Axeman at May 19, 2022 03:34 PM (krQz2)

354 So how about that She Hulk?

Posted by: ... at May 19, 2022 03:34 PM (UQjbo)

355
Why aren't they?
Don't tell me they're out-matched. Don't tell me Russia doesn't have the funds.

They don't have the funds.

Posted by: Archimedes at May 19, 2022 03:34 PM (ZsR3z)

356 >>>I'd like to take a moment to say hello to all the new nics (who totes read ace religiously in the past).

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at May 19, 2022 03:32 PM (n+4am)

This is about me, isn't it?

Posted by: Yakov Smirnoff at May 19, 2022 03:34 PM (QYPq3)

357 332
It makes no sense whatsoever, to me.

--If Russia is "losing," then it's because they Do Not Care about winning.

Of course they can crush ukraine.

Why aren't they?
Don't tell me they're out-matched. Don't tell me Russia doesn't have the funds.
----------------
I actually agree with you. Russia has the most artillery. That decides these border wars. They may see it in their own interests to bog the West down an bleed them economically. The funny thing is this is Washington's plan - to wear down Russia's resources and will. Given we haven't won a war in 80 years I don't know that Biden and the Dems are the ones that can pull off a war of attrition.

Posted by: Puddin Head at May 19, 2022 03:35 PM (D8mow)

358 @74 Japan has more aircraft carriers than China does.

----

China has two operational, with two more at varying stages of construction. Japan has Izumo. No plans have been announced yet to modify her sister Kaga to carry fixed-wing aircraft.

Posted by: junior at May 19, 2022 03:35 PM (FYGBb)

359 I can honestly say I have no idea what's actually happening in Ukraine.... I only know we are spending billions there...That's what has me furious

Posted by: It's me donna at May 19, 2022 03:35 PM (bs+z0)

360 Plenty of footage of Ukrainian soldiers at Azovstal being loaded on busses and treated by Russian medical teams.

-
The Nazis had video of Jews reading in the library, playing games, and dancing at Theresienstadt. The Further Builds the Jews a City.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=P9V6d2Y1WjE

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks aka Hangdog Barkston at May 19, 2022 03:35 PM (FVME7)

361
The Russians don't need to take Odessa, much less Kiev, and at this point they can simply shatter the Ukrainian Army then let the morale collapse do the rest of the work. Contrary to Western reports, the Russians have generally gone out of their way to preserve their numbers after the initial maneuvers.
Posted by: trev006 at May 19, 2022 03:33 PM (Lo2B3)

I don't think Russia will seek a large battle to force a peace treaty. They've demonstrated a general unwillingness to take casualties to take objectives they don't plan to hold. I figure they intend to sit on the territroy they want and just wait for people to stop focusing on it.

Posted by: Someguy's at May 19, 2022 03:36 PM (7Wvyk)

362 I'd like to take a moment to say hello to all the new nics (who totes read ace religiously in the past).

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at May 19, 2022 03:32 PM (n+4am)
---
I'll accept that they may be previous lurkers.

Posted by: Axeman at May 19, 2022 03:36 PM (krQz2)

363 284 Ace if you love Ukraine so much, why don't you move there? Posted by: ... at May 19, 2022 03:23 PM (oA0xt)
---
Oh come on. Our information is so poor, no one can be confident of knowing much of anything about what's going on. Petulent sarcasm doesn't help anything.

Posted by: Meade Lux Lewis, Domestic Terrorist at May 19, 2022 03:36 PM (sWM8x)

364 I can't get over the fact that Soros, the mouthy globalists (Bush et al), and the greedy dems are tripping over themselves to defend, prop up and pump with money the well-known corrupt Ukraine government.

Are all those listed above all of a sudden altruistic?

Have I been wrong about all of them?

Posted by: Seems Legit at May 19, 2022 03:36 PM (DcKNO)

365 The Duma authorized Putin to roll into Ukraine in 2014, but he didn't.

A big reason is that a large portion of the Ukrainian national police and military simply melted away after Maidan. One such guy is Alexander Khodakovsky, who was a commander in the SBU Alfa unit, who now commands the Vostok Battalion from out of the Donbas.

Such units were highly effective against what was left of the Ukrainian military.

This is precisely why groups like Azov was folded into the Ukrainian national apparatus. They needed both the manpower and the esprit de corps.

Also, over the last 8 years, Ukraine has done a heck of a job turning their front against the Donbas republics into a network of networks of trenches and earthworks that connect the villages, also turning them into fighting positions.

If anyone thinks that this slog would be easy for any military... might want to check up on that idea.

Posted by: Harlock at May 19, 2022 03:36 PM (RCySr)

366 Zhukov, wasn't he the general who would shoot his own troops unless they advanced?
Very motivational.

Posted by: gourmand du jour at May 19, 2022 03:37 PM (jTmQV)

367 They don't have the funds.
Posted by: Archimedes at May 19, 2022 03:34 PM (ZsR3z)

Have you seen the price of oil?

Posted by: Someguy's at May 19, 2022 03:37 PM (7Wvyk)

368 So how about that She Hulk?
Posted by: ... at May 19, 2022 03:34 PM (UQjbo)

Looks awesome, I'm gonna sign up for Disney+ right now!!

Posted by: Jordan61 at May 19, 2022 03:37 PM (DRSnL)

369 A few thoughts:

(1) On Mikhail Khodarenok - This guy is not like the sweater wearing former officer asshats on CNN. This guy is a truth teller. He told Russia back in February, BEFORE all this kicked off, that this invasion was a terrible idea. Here it is, its in Russian, but google translate is your friend:

https://nvo.ng.ru/realty/2022-02-03/3_1175_donbass.html

(2) More on Mikhail Khodarenok - Moreover, everything he's saying on Russian TV is true: (a) Repeated Russian claims of a UAF collapse are not true. They aren't any more true now than they were in February, or March, or April. (b) The Ukrainians are not having a problem mobilizing much of their male population to defend their nation. Russian atrocities have helped in that regard, I don't know about a "million" men under arms, but certainly lots. (3) NATO and the US are arming the UAF, which is making the UAF being mobilized better armed and equipped than they otherwise would be. (4) The fact the UAF volunteers/conscripts are not extensively trained will be somewhat offset by their morale and motivation to fight (also, like 80% of all Russian forces are 1 year conscripts) (CONTINUED)

Posted by: P.Mo. at May 19, 2022 03:37 PM (6Cx+M)

370 I don't know if China is as corrupt as Russia, though.

But is their military structured like the Russian/Soviet model. Completely top down, with no professional NCO corps?
Apparently not having a professional NCO corps is really hamstringing the Russian military.

Posted by: Iblis at May 19, 2022 03:37 PM (g6c4t)

371 Regarding Mauripol - the Russians have put out a statement today on their plans for the city, which illustrates what a huge failure this operation has been for them; they put out a statement saying that they were going to demolish the steel works, and turn it into a "resort city", while also acknowledging that 60% of the city had been demolished.

The huge value of Mauripol was always its steelworks. They employed over 10,000 people , they were one of the greatest earners of hard currency in the entire Ukraine. The primary reason for taking Mauripol was to take control of the massive manufacturing capacity it contained. And now - it's all junk, the Russians admit they can't rebuild it, and they through away all those loves just to make a low rent theme park? "Here come stay among the wonderful cemeteries, they stretch for miles and miles!"

Their entire invasion has been for nothing, they've thrown away 1/3 of all their military forces for nothing. Except the chance to occupy a burned out hillside full of graves.

Posted by: Tom Servo at May 19, 2022 03:37 PM (trdmm)

372 They may see it in their own interests to bog the West down an bleed them economically. The funny thing is this is Washington's plan - to wear down Russia's resources and will. Given we haven't won a war in 80 years I don't know that Biden and the Dems are the ones that can pull off a war of attrition.
==
We'd love to see how it all turns out!!!

Posted by: Chinese Military Running out of Popcorn at May 19, 2022 03:37 PM (FiGQJ)

373 If the Russians have any hopes of avoiding a permanent guerilla war in Donbas, they will need to demonstrate some humanity. Perhaps that's what's happening.

Posted by: Archimedes at May 19, 2022 03:22 PM (ZsR3z)

There has already been guerilla war for the last 8 years.

If you want to see what the 'national divorce' would look like in America, review 2014-2022 in Donbas.

Posted by: Bitter Clinger at May 19, 2022 03:37 PM (v31Ye)

374 Just to remind everyone; this conflict isn't the big danger facing the world. The real danger is man-made climate change.

Posted by: Pork Chops & Bacons at May 19, 2022 03:37 PM (Qhnrt)

375 Donbas is Russian. The Russians apparently understand that fighting a forever war is a bad thing and so largely didn't aim at holding non-ethnic Russian populated territory.

No, no it isn't. There are lots of Russians living there. I imagine very few of them still want anything to do with Russia, but regardless, it's Uke territory.

It would be the same as us ceding New Mexico and border TX back to Mexico.
Posted by: Archimedes at May 19, 2022 03:32 PM (ZsR3z)

------------------------

Maybe get on Telegram* and see some interviews with the people who live there. There have been 14,000 people killed in that region *before* Russia invaded in the last 8 years of civil war.

* SPOILER: they're linguistically, ethnically and culturally Russian. And they've been getting otherized by the Ukrainians since 2014, when not actively being shelled by their artillery. Say what you will about the morality of invading another country, but the people in the Donbas seem to be reacting with relief, not outrage.

Posted by: Random Internet Asshole at May 19, 2022 03:38 PM (8LP6B)

376 They don't have the funds.
Posted by: Archimedes at May 19, 2022 03:34 PM (ZsR3z)

Have you seen the price of oil?

Yes. What else do they have to sell? Tough to run a large country on that alone.

Posted by: Archimedes at May 19, 2022 03:38 PM (ZsR3z)

377
To the extent that I care. (Anti-care?) I'm rootin Putin. Unlike democrats he didn't recently burn loot murder in over 30 US cities.
Posted by: Jimco Industries at May 19, 2022 03:27 PM (vloNb)

I'm just not rootin'. On the one hand, Putin's an ass. He invaded. I hope he gets his face smashed in.

On the other - my enemy is in DC, not Moscow. And DC sponsors Kiev. So if Zelensky gets his face smashed in, it's a bloody nose for our cabal, and I hope that happens.

I just wish everyone could lose catastrophically, I guess.

Posted by: Deep Thoughts at May 19, 2022 03:38 PM (o0I+B)

378
Given we haven't won a war in 80 years I don't know that Biden and the Dems are the ones that can pull off a war of attrition.
Posted by: Puddin Head

Yep, the same Fuckheads who gave the Taliban everything they wanted and more are the "architects" behind zelensky's ukrainian "defense" of Russia.

Posted by: Soothsayer, the #1 name in news at May 19, 2022 03:38 PM (5fcxz)

379 No, no it isn't. There are lots of Russians living there. I imagine very few of them still want anything to do with Russia, but regardless, it's Uke territory.
-------------
The Ukes and Russian speakers in the Donbas have been at war for 8-15 years prior to this invasion. The Russkies aren't going away.

Posted by: Puddin Head at May 19, 2022 03:39 PM (D8mow)

380 Petulent sarcasm doesn't help anything.

Posted by: Meade Lux Lewis, Domestic Terrorist at May 19, 2022 03:36 PM (sWM8x)

How DARE you.

Posted by: ... at May 19, 2022 03:39 PM (E/gBi)

381 >>>Just to remind everyone; this conflict isn't the big danger facing the world. The real danger is man-made climate change.

Posted by: Pork Chops & Bacons at May 19, 2022 03:37 PM (Qhnrt)

Climate Change is now #2 danger. Danger #1 is Elon Musk.

Posted by: In Reel Life (yes, dummy, on purpose) at May 19, 2022 03:39 PM (QYPq3)

382 Just to remind everyone; this conflict isn't the big danger facing the world. The real danger is man-made climate change.
Posted by: Pork Chops & Bacons at May 19, 2022 03:37 PM (Qhnrt)

Well, that and white supremacy.

Posted by: Jordan61 at May 19, 2022 03:39 PM (DRSnL)

383 366

I believe Trotsky had that policy in the Russ. Civil War. Don’t know about Zhukov.

Posted by: Bulgaroctonus at May 19, 2022 03:39 PM (Bq+PW)

384 I doubt that the Chinese were every planning for a full invasion of Taiwan. There are far better ways to get what they want. The goal is to force the west to acknowledge Chinese suzerainty over the western Pacific, including Taiwan, Japan, Korea, etc.
Posted by: Colorado Alex in Exile at May 19, 2022 03:33 PM (wmDcS)
===============
They tried invading twice under Mao, and regularly shell interior islands both China and Taiwan claim (but Taiwan controls). They practice amphib landings all the time, overfly and test air defense nearly every week, and regularly try to involve themselves in island politics.

I think they want to win Taiwan any way they can get it including invading if they have to.

Posted by: Huck Follywood, Break The Teachers Unions at May 19, 2022 03:39 PM (Ijkw6)

385 Their entire invasion has been for nothing, they've thrown away 1/3 of all their military forces for nothing. Except the chance to occupy a burned out hillside full of graves.
====
said George Bush.

Oops. Oopsie.

Posted by: wars make people rich, not people in them at May 19, 2022 03:39 PM (ushHe)

386 Well, they may or may not save Christendom, but they did make wicked dun of new WH spokesperson and said the reason why she got the jib is strictly based in skin color and sexual orientation.

Posted by: runner at May 19, 2022 03:39 PM (vyw2i)

387 Zhukov, wasn't he the general who would shoot his own troops unless they advanced?
Very motivational.

"It takes a brave man to be a coward in the Red Army."

Posted by: Zombie Georgy Konstantinovich Zhukov! at May 19, 2022 03:40 PM (I2/tG)

388 *job

Posted by: runner at May 19, 2022 03:40 PM (vyw2i)

389 Just to remind everyone; this conflict isn't the big danger facing the world. The real danger is man-made climate change.
Posted by: Pork Chops & Bacons at May 19, 2022 03:37 PM (Qhnrt)

And improper pronoun usage.

Posted by: spindrift at May 19, 2022 03:40 PM (h5TKJ)

390
The list of USA fuckups is quite long.

Korea
Viet Nam
Iraq
Afghanistan
Yemen
Libya
Egypt

Posted by: Soothsayer, the #1 name in news at May 19, 2022 03:40 PM (5fcxz)

391 Just to remind everyone; this conflict isn't the big danger facing the world. The real danger is man-made climate change.
Posted by: Pork Chops & Bacons at May 19, 2022 03:37 PM (Qhnrt)

Well, that and white supremacy.
Posted by: Jordan61
==
Wow. This place is TRANSPHOBIA all the way down isn't it?

Posted by: Thelma Sparkles Jock Strap at May 19, 2022 03:41 PM (ushHe)

392 . The real danger is man-made climate change.

Posted by: Pork Chops & Bacons at May 19, 2022 03:37 PM (Qhnrt)

You bastard.

Posted by: Net Neutrality at May 19, 2022 03:41 PM (WvPpP)

393 370 I don't know if China is as corrupt as Russia, though.

-------

China is communist. Corruption is baked into communism's cake.

Posted by: Pork Chops & Bacons at May 19, 2022 03:41 PM (Qhnrt)

394 Yes. What else do they have to sell? Tough to run a large country on that alone.
Posted by: Archimedes at May 19, 2022 03:38 PM (ZsR3z)

It pretty much drove their economy before the war and is still doing so. They were hurt way worse by Covid lockdowns than current sanctions.

Posted by: Someguy's at May 19, 2022 03:41 PM (7Wvyk)

395 I can't get over the fact that Soros, the mouthy globalists (Bush et al), and the greedy dems are tripping over themselves to defend, prop up and pump with money the well-known corrupt Ukraine government.

Are all those listed above all of a sudden altruistic?

Have I been wrong about all of them?

Posted by: Seems Legit

One doesn't need a detailed scorecard to understand the game. Just look at the players' behavior.

Posted by: Thomas Paine at May 19, 2022 03:41 PM (5kI0z)

396 No, no it isn't. There are lots of Russians living there. I imagine very few of them still want anything to do with Russia, but regardless, it's Uke territory.

It would be the same as us ceding New Mexico and border TX back to Mexico.
Posted by: Archimedes at May 19, 2022 03:32 PM (ZsR3z)

---

The civil war of the previous 8 years says otherwise.

Posted by: Harlock at May 19, 2022 03:41 PM (RCySr)

397 Are all those listed above all of a sudden altruistic?

Have I been wrong about all of them?
Posted by: Seems Legit at May 19, 2022 03:36 PM (DcKNO)

They can't abandon Ukraine after publicly promising support because much of the western world runs on the belief in such promises.

Essentially the managerial class had a huge stock of cultural, social, and political capital and have been leveraging it for their own gains for decades. Think the housing bubble x1000.

Posted by: Colorado Alex in Exile at May 19, 2022 03:41 PM (wmDcS)

398 The list of USA fuckups is quite long.

Posted by: Soothsayer, the #1 name in news at May 19, 2022 03:40 PM (5fcxz)

We're they fuckups though? Or were they profit centers and "help" to "our" sworn enemies?

Posted by: ... at May 19, 2022 03:42 PM (WvPpP)

399
By Sunday, they'll return to the "chemical weapons" hoax, for, what, the fifth time in the last two months?

Posted by: Soothsayer, the #1 name in news at May 19, 2022 03:43 PM (5fcxz)

400 343 >>>Donbas is Russian.

No, no it isn't. There are lots of Russians living there. I imagine very few of them still want anything to do with Russia, but regardless, it's Uke territory.

It would be the same as us ceding New Mexico and border TX back to Mexico.

Donbas used to be part of Russia, still speaks Russian, and votes unswervingly in support of Russia-friendly politicians. If Texans were forever longing for the days it was part of Mexico, flew Mexican flags, voted for greater integration with Mexico, and still spoke Spanish, then yeah... ceding them back to Mexico might well be a viable alternative than fighting the entire world to keep them.

Posted by: red speck at May 19, 2022 03:43 PM (gS3OW)

401 The list of USA fuckups is quite long.

Korea
Viet Nam
Iraq
Afghanistan
Yemen
Libya
Egypt
Posted by: Soothsayer, the #1 name in news

Benghazi

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks aka Hangdog Barkston at May 19, 2022 03:43 PM (FVME7)

402 Just a point of reference - one third of Ukraine is made up of Russkies inserted by Stalin in the 1930s. This was accompanied by a murder/starvation campaign that took out roughly one third of Ukrainians. He did the same in Kazakstan. What you are seeing is a new line for Russkie speakers to live beyond and Ukes on the other side. Think The Troubles in Northern Ireland during the 60s and 70s.

Posted by: Puddin Head at May 19, 2022 03:43 PM (D8mow)

403 (5) The Ukrainians really do intend to fight to the death. Russian myths about Ukraine really being brothers with them are not reality. Ukraine has a long history of being oppressed by the Russians. They had reached a sort of detente with their ethnic Russian population, but now even that ethnic Russian population wants to slaughter the invaders. (6) Russia is geopolitically isolated. Their friends are basically Iran, Syria, and inexplicably India. China is kind of asking for a break because they don't want the economic fall out. They won't even ship rations to help the Russian army. So Khodarenok is absolutely dead on. (CONTINUED)

Posted by: P.Mo. at May 19, 2022 03:43 PM (6Cx+M)

404 Not being flippant, but what has served me well is being against anything the US lefties and Soros are for.

It seems too simplistic but I don't think it really is that far off.

Posted by: Seems Legit at May 19, 2022 03:44 PM (DcKNO)

405 Mood lemon

Posted by: Corona-exile lost in spaces at May 19, 2022 03:44 PM (3wNhr)

406 P.Mo. thanks for your posts here. They're really good.

Posted by: Black Orchid at May 19, 2022 03:45 PM (w0NJk)

407 I figure they intend to sit on the territroy they want and just wait for people to stop focusing on it.
Posted by: Someguy's at May 19, 2022 03:36 PM (7Wvyk)

In general, yes. But they want to destroy or capture most of the Ukrainian Army first, partly for punitive reasons but mostly to cause a massive morale collapse that forces a change of the Zelensky government.

Posted by: trev006 at May 19, 2022 03:45 PM (Lo2B3)

408
Like I said, it's far more likely the Democrats' CIA will use chemical weapons in ukraine to frame Russia than Russia doing it.

This doesn't mean I'm on Russia's fuckingside. It means I trust Putin more than the CIA.

This whole thing is Bullshit.
It's been One Big Lie with tiny kernels of truth mixed in.

Posted by: Soothsayer, the #1 name in news at May 19, 2022 03:45 PM (5fcxz)

409 The myth around Bandera has become a problem in Ukraine.

It should have been directly engaged by the West and it wasn't. There were other myths to pursue, like laptops being Russian disinfo.

Posted by: Harlock at May 19, 2022 03:46 PM (RCySr)

410 If there is a possibility that Putin is "saving Christendom", the one thing I know is that the Demedia will not let you know this. If there is any possible vindication of Putin, the Demedia won't let you see that.

But there's also not enough to invest in. But if it were possible, because the narrative goes the other way, Putin has been too good of a scapegoat for domestic situations, that they couldn't give up the con.

They flat-out lie about visible, domestic situations.

Posted by: Axeman at May 19, 2022 03:46 PM (krQz2)

411 The area of Donbas contains both Ukes and Russkies. The Ukes in the East always saw working with Russia as the common sense thing to do since Russia has a functioning currency and economy. The Ukes in the West (Lviv and Kyev) were the ones that saw independence from Russia as a desireable thing. Ukraine, based on my travels there, is a tri-polar polity. This is Stalin's legacy to keep them in the USSR.

Posted by: Puddin Head at May 19, 2022 03:47 PM (D8mow)

412
Regarding Russian-speakers in Donbas, if memory serves they were largely imported into the region by the Soviets after the commissars deported a shitload of Ukes/cossacks from the area for being German collaborators during The Great Patriotic War. So from the Uke perspective, they're still interlopers.

Basically, the whole region is a septic tank of corruption and violence, on both sides of the border.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at May 19, 2022 03:47 PM (n+4am)

413 Oh, and how does this Colonels critique go with the reports of the Oligarchs being really not happy with Putin right now?

Posted by: Iblis at May 19, 2022 03:48 PM (g6c4t)

414 Japan had just gotten it's faced kicked in by the Soviets at Khalkhin Gol, and wasn't eager for a rematch. More importantly, Japan had it's hands full with trying to swallow China in a war that Tokyo hadn't really wanted in the first place. The last thing the Japanese needed was to add another front in Asia.
Posted by: junior
-------------------

Japan, that little bitty country fighting Russia and China.
Pretty bad ass.

Posted by: Braenyard at May 19, 2022 03:48 PM (Gqta/)

415 China is kind of asking for a break because they don't want the economic fall out. They won't even ship rations to help the Russian army. So Khodarenok is absolutely dead on. (CONTINUED)

Posted by: P.Mo. at May 19, 2022 03:43 PM (6Cx+M)

Meanwhile, Beijing is filling their strategic oil reserves with Russian oil.

Posted by: Harlock at May 19, 2022 03:48 PM (RCySr)

416 Well reasoned posts above and they are all over the place as to who is really winning, no consensus seems to be emerging. But can we at least agree that a material amount of the $40b will eventually land in many politicians' hands here in the US and in Ukraine? Or is that too cynical?

Posted by: Chuck Martel at May 19, 2022 03:49 PM (fs1hN)

417 Regarding Russian-speakers in Donbas, if memory serves they were largely imported into the region by the Soviets after the commissars deported a shitload of Ukes/cossacks from the area for being German collaborators during The Great Patriotic War.

------------

Crimean Tatars. Or "Taters" as I like to think of them.

Posted by: Random Internet Asshole at May 19, 2022 03:49 PM (8LP6B)

418 408
Like I said, it's far more likely the Democrats' CIA will use chemical weapons in ukraine to frame Russia than Russia doing it.

This doesn't mean I'm on Russia's fuckingside. It means I trust Putin more than the CIA.

This whole thing is Bullshit.
It's been One Big Lie with tiny kernels of truth mixed in.
-----------------
Ukraine is a CIA Client State. Why we need a client state is beyond me since the Cold War is over. But, a lot of rice bowls and promotions are hanging on whether they can grift the Ukraine to keep the NATO monkeys in line.

Posted by: Puddin Head at May 19, 2022 03:49 PM (D8mow)

419 They would not be killing Russians in the Donbass if they would just, simply, go back home to Mother Russia.

Posted by: Braenyard at May 19, 2022 03:50 PM (Gqta/)

420 412 >>>Basically, the whole region is a septic tank of corruption and violence, on both sides of the border.

On this, I believe we can all agree.

Posted by: red speck at May 19, 2022 03:50 PM (gS3OW)

421 The fact that they are corrupt is a moot point.

Posted by: Braenyard at May 19, 2022 03:51 PM (Gqta/)

422 But can we at least agree that a material amount of the $40b will eventually land in many politicians' hands here in the US and in Ukraine? Or is that too cynical?
--------------
The Ghost of Woody Wilson commands that some people are too big to fail. Yes - the speical people will profit. The little people will be punished and their son's likely fed into another meat grinder for 20-30 years for "Our Democracy."

Posted by: Puddin Head at May 19, 2022 03:52 PM (D8mow)

423 (3) Russia isn't winning appreciably on the ground. Yeah they've captured a lot of ground, but that just means longer supply lines. In the Donbass they've made modest gains at best. They've been on the offensive for about a month now, and they've made very little real progress, and they are actually redeploying forces from their Izium axis back to defend their supply hubs at Vovchansk and Kupyansk because both are threatened by UAF advances from the Kharkiv region.

(4) Speaking of Kharkiv, it hasn't really been under siege for several weeks, but it was being shelled regularly as there were Russian forces within 20km north of the city. Those troops have been pushed back.

(CONTINUED)

Posted by: P.Mo. at May 19, 2022 03:52 PM (6Cx+M)

424 I posted a link to a video by a Russian woman, about a month ago. She said that, after the Soviet Union collapsed, her family disbursed. Some went to Belarus, some to Ukraine and some stayed in St. Petersburg. It was common for them to move around between these areas because they were part of the same Federation.

Posted by: Notsothoreau - move forward at May 19, 2022 03:54 PM (5HBd1)

425 Scenario: They don't invade. They blockade.
Posted by: Harlock at May 19, 2022 03:27 PM (RCySr)
==
They can't hold the blockade. C'mon, people, China does not have a blue water navy. Japan does. They have only one operational carrier, and it is converted. Japan has the only other super carrier in the world not owned by the US if I remember correctly. And it's small by those standards. I could stand corrected on that. China has a bunch of soldiers - and no way to safely get them to Tiawan without exceptionally heavy losses. They cannot defend their supply lines if they did it. The west would blockade all energy and food stuffs. There would be mass starvation in months. China is over.

Posted by: Black JEM at May 19, 2022 03:57 PM (LyTO1)

426 (5) China. Its difficult to say how capable they are, because they have very much tried to learn as much as they can from US/NATO organization and capabilities. They've also tried to steal as much US and european tech as they can. But much of the equipment is either localized Russian equipment. There are a few indigenous designs, but most of it is based on localized versions of Russian equipment, or upgraded antiquated Russian equipment. But equipment is far less important that how quality the troops are. Russian's superiority in equipment didn't matter much against the UAF because their tactical decision making was awful. They drove large columns into ambushes, then reacted by doing basically nothing. This is a fundamental problem with authoritarian militaries. Authoritarian societies view initiative as a lethal threat, so they stamp it out in favour of following orders as a highest order value. So, officers aren't trained to adapt to contact, nor are they trained to question dumb orders. This is how you had Russia flying an IL-76 into Hostomel airport even after the airport had been taken back by the UAF. And, lets face it, China has absolutely zero combat experience.

Posted by: P.Mo. at May 19, 2022 03:57 PM (6Cx+M)

427 Posted by: P.Mo. at May 19, 2022 03:52 PM (6Cx+M)

Regarding Izyum... Once upon a time, about 3 weeks ago it was never going to be taken. The Russians would run out of bombs, fuel, food, men, morale before then.

But the bottom line is that Donetsk and Luhansk, Kherson, Mariupol, Crimea aren't going back under control of Kiev under any semblance of civility.

This should have been taken into account by the West, some time around 2014.

Posted by: Harlock at May 19, 2022 03:58 PM (RCySr)

428 Unarmed Uighurs aren't shooting back. We have no idea how good China will perform against a military that shoots back.

Posted by: P.Mo. at May 19, 2022 03:58 PM (6Cx+M)

429 @425 Japan has the only other super carrier in the world not owned by the US if I remember correctly

----

Only the US operates super carriers. The French have the only other carrier that does catapult-assisted take-offs.

Posted by: junior at May 19, 2022 03:59 PM (FYGBb)

430 " A lot of their (Chinese) stuff is Russia-pattern"

I would argue that the equipment is not what is failing the Russians, but rather their tactics, training, and leadership.

Auftragstaktik was key in the defeat of France in 1940 - low level officers and commanders on the ground were encouraged to make key decisions based on conditions at hand in the Wehrmacht, whereas the French were specifically instructed to wait for orders from command, and would blindly follow those orders, even if the situation on the ground had changed and no longer met those order's spirit.

We see this in the Russian invasion, today. Commanders miles from the fighting, issuing orders to lower level guys who are incapable or unwilling to change those orders to meet the spirit of the objective. Therefore, we keep crossing the bridge at Bilohorivka, and lose nearly 3 BTGs of men by continuously throwing men across the bridge to be chewed up in the meat grinder. 1/2

Posted by: Goober at May 19, 2022 03:59 PM (Hgvgt)

431 IF Russia is so incompetent, so feckless, that she cannot even defeat a country on their border that they have exact knowledge of ( terrain, language, capabilities)..

then explain 15+ countries that need to be in NATO to defend themselves against Russia. I'll wait.

Posted by: Yip at May 19, 2022 04:00 PM (d+Tm9)

432 They can't hold the blockade. C'mon, people, China does not have a blue water navy.
Posted by: Black JEM at May 19, 2022 03:57 PM (LyTO1)

I'm not talking next week.

Posted by: Harlock at May 19, 2022 04:01 PM (RCySr)

433 The southern tip of Japan is 80km from Taiwan.
That's Cuba to Florida.
There's sub rosa between Japan and Taiwan.

Posted by: Braenyard at May 19, 2022 04:01 PM (Gqta/)

434 A short summary:

The Mariupol soldiers surrendered. The wounded soldiers were taken to nearby hospitals. The rest are headed to POW camps for the duration of the conflict or exchanged for captured Russian soldiers. Prominent members of the Azov Battalion (actual neo-Nazis) may face trials for any atrocities visited upon the population while in control of Mariupol.

Russian progress in the Donbass has been slow, but the Russians are about to complete their encirclement of the last urban area in the Lugansk province, so I am not seeing how Ukraine is exactly winning this war.

Also, the Ukrainian Army is venturing out into the open when recapturing villages to the north of Kharkov. The Russians tend to roll over the Ukrainians in open country while the Ukrainians put up a hell of a resistance in urban areas where they have cover.

It sounds great to say that the Ukrainian Army is going to retake everything, but if they succeed in pushing the Russian forces back into the Donbass and Crimea, they will have the same issues holding territory there that the Russians had at the beginning of the conflict holding territory in Chernigov, Sumy, and Kiev.

Posted by: A Concerned Citizen at May 19, 2022 04:04 PM (zcPgo)

435 "But the bottom line is that Donetsk and Luhansk, Kherson, Mariupol, Crimea aren't going back under control of Kiev under any semblance of civility."

Ukraine has gained more ground in the last two weeks than Russia has gained. That's a simple fact. I don't know how realistic it is to expect Ukraine to retake Crimea or the fake republics, but I think Kherson is a lock to be retaken. All the UAF has to do to retake Kherson is somehow manage to destroy the only two bridges across the Dnieper that are still standing. If they can take them out then all the Russian forces on the west side of the Dnieper are cut off from resupply except by air, and that would be fraught with difficulty given the proliferation of MANPADs in Ukraine.

There's zero chance the Russians run out of fuel, and I think they probably have large stockpiles of regular artillery rounds and ammo. I do think they may have some trouble getting them to the front, particularly on the Izium axis if the UAF continues pressing east towards Kupyansk.

Posted by: P.Mo. at May 19, 2022 04:04 PM (6Cx+M)

436 2/2 simply because that's their orders.

Furthermore, the tactics being used are antiquated, even by late-WWII standards, which reflects on their training. By about 1941, and definitely by 1942, every power that had tanks had been learned up good and hard on the reality of sending tanks into battle unsupported by infantry. Infantry can straight up fuck the hell out of a tank battalion. Especially in cities, but ultimately everywhere. Much has been made of ATGMs and how they are a "game changer" but even in the 40's, AT guns, bazookas, recoilles rifles, and even simple raissez IED type devices like sticky bombs allowed infantry to completely screw up any tanks that didn't have infantry to support them. ATGMs made these items longer range, more portable, etc, but they changed nothing of the fundamentals of tank warfare. The tactic was you send them in together, with infantry to take out anti-tank positions, or at least call in fire missions from the tanks after identifying them, and tanks to provide fire support for the infantry and take out other tanks as the need arose.

Russia seems to have forgotten this.

In short, it ain't the gear that is the problem.

Posted by: Goober at May 19, 2022 04:04 PM (Hgvgt)

437 Everyone here assumes Russia wanted to end this fast. The evidence doesn't support that assumption. They may want this to last a long time to drain NATO and America of any meaningful resolve and put themselves in the cat bird seat of deciding how it ends. Russia has plenty of time, fuel, munitions and food. After watching what Biden did, print a shit ton of money and double the price of gas my guess the West's Leadership will not hold together more than a year.

Posted by: Puddin Head at May 19, 2022 04:05 PM (D8mow)

438 Everyone here assumes Russia wanted to end this fast. The evidence doesn't support that assumption.

don't you remember the start of this?!?!

come on!

THEY DID. AND IT DOES.

not that they can't last a long time, they can and will. but CLEARLY they were going for shock and awe/the element of surprise that night

Posted by: Black Orchid at May 19, 2022 04:07 PM (w0NJk)

439 But I do think Russia is beginning to run out of PGMs. I monitor the air raids in Ukraine. At the outset every night there'd be air raids virtually everywhere. In recent days they've been sparse and mostly limited to areas near the front, and a lot of it is now artillery attacks. Now, the Russians might be spooling up to something, but I think its more likely their stocks are running low.

Posted by: P.Mo. at May 19, 2022 04:07 PM (6Cx+M)

440 No idea if China is as corrupt as Russia, but their quality control is pure shit.

Posted by: Iron-Wombat at May 19, 2022 04:07 PM (BRnXm)

441 but I think Kherson is a lock to be retaken.
Posted by: P.Mo. at May 19, 2022 04:04 PM (6Cx+M)

Beyond it being a slog, the demographics are not in favor of UAF occupation. That's what it would take afterward.

Posted by: Harlock at May 19, 2022 04:08 PM (RCySr)

442 All the UAF has to do to retake Kherson is somehow manage to destroy the only two bridges across the Dnieper that are still standing. If they can take them out then all the Russian forces on the west side of the Dnieper are cut off from resupply except by air, and that would be fraught with difficulty given the proliferation of MANPADs in Ukraine.
--------------
The Dnieper River is the line Russia wants the Ukes to accept as the new border between them. Yeah, forcing Ukes to spend large retaking Kherson is probably part of the plan.

Posted by: Puddin Head at May 19, 2022 04:08 PM (D8mow)

443 then explain 15+ countries that need to be in NATO to defend themselves against Russia. I'll wait.
Posted by: Yip at May 19, 2022 04:00 PM (d+Tm9)
---------------

Russia had em before and paraphrasing
Russia is never as strong as it thinks it is
Russia is never as weak as you think it is

No one thought their military was a screwed up as it is and you can be sure that after this fiasco is over there will be some big lessons learned going on.

Posted by: Braenyard at May 19, 2022 04:09 PM (Gqta/)

444 Color me surrrprised that a retired Russian Colonel say to the world-we underestimated the Ukrainian people. Wonder if he had to get permission.

Posted by: sidney at May 19, 2022 04:09 PM (Uy/WF)

445 Continued:

The civilians in northern Ukraine don't usually speak Russian and don't want to be part of Russia, so the Russian army had no support there and had to garrison everyplace they went.

The Ukrainian Army would have the same problem trying to hold the Crimea, Donetsk, and Lugansk. Most people who live there consider themselves to be Russian and don't want to be part of Ukraine. That's why the Deputy Prime Minister of Ukraine said today that they intended to retake the Crimea with or without people.

An army of one million Ukrainians sounds nice, but you can't simply put advanced Western weapons in the hands of civilians. Also, if the Ukrainian Army went into Russia, it would trigger a full mobilization, and Russia could instantly mobilize about three times as many reserves as one million men. They couldn't get them to Ukraine instantly, but the Russian people would be clamoring for full mobilization if the Ukrainian Army started invading Russia proper.

Posted by: A Concerned Citizen at May 19, 2022 04:09 PM (zcPgo)

446 I stopped thinking about the Soviet war machine after it crashed and burned in Afghanistan. But as has been said many times above, Russia still has more than enough nuclear bombs to bomb the entire world back to the stone age. And China does, too. Their armies and/or their military preparedness doesn't matter one damn little bit if either one decides a nuclear exchange will benefit them. But, we may not need to worry about Russia and China; according to Israel, the Iranians are mere weeks from creating their own bomb.

Posted by: Captain Josepha Sabin -- I wasn't particularly fond of the '70s the first time around at May 19, 2022 04:09 PM (sjtZ7)

447 441 but I think Kherson is a lock to be retaken.
Posted by: P.Mo. at May 19, 2022 04:04 PM (6Cx+M)

Beyond it being a slog, the demographics are not in favor of UAF occupation. That's what it would take afterward.
----------------
Yep. Remember, most young Ukes leave Ukraine to have a future. That's been going on for some time now. The most important thing a Uke wants to learn is English.

Posted by: Puddin Head at May 19, 2022 04:09 PM (D8mow)

448 By invading a sovereign nation, Putin has brought back the horrific specter of a nuclear strike. Before it was implausible based on military tensions between nations. Now Putin's made it a remote plausibility. That makes him the worst person in the world in my book. He's now the Number One Son of Bitch. - Because even though the corrupt Ukrainian government has been brutally oppressing ethnic Russians in the Donbass region; it is not worth risking nuclear war to liberate that region.

All that said, the sooner this war is over: the sooner the killing and dying stops and the sooner tensions between nuclear armed powers can ease.
The fog of war prevents us from knowing the score on the ground. The media pretends to know; but they have zero clue. (This includes retired Russian generals turned armchair analysts.)
But based on simple publicly known dynamics, it is extremely likely that Russia will achieve its stated military objectives - and some.
Those objectives are: liberation of the Donbass region and the hobbling of the Ukrainian military industrial complex. And it seems Russia is intent on patiently taking as much time as is needed to fulfill these objectives.

Posted by: Bach in Black at May 19, 2022 04:10 PM (7ubmG)

449 @437
agreed. I don't know where this idea that Russia thought it was gonna be a lightning war and over quick. In fact, they have much to gain by dragging this out. Petro dollar severely undercut; strong Ruble, frayed globalist , crippled US economy from printing and sending money to UKR. As long as Putin is healthy, he's good. 18 months of this will drastically destroy the Democrats and globalists.

Posted by: Yip at May 19, 2022 04:11 PM (d+Tm9)

450 The Dnieper River is the line Russia wants the Ukes to accept as the new border between them. Yeah, forcing Ukes to spend large retaking Kherson is probably part of the plan.
Posted by: Puddin Head at May 19, 2022 04:08 PM (D8mow)

---

Yep.

Kherson is already a ruble zone, with civic infrastructure being run by the locals. This makes the situation for Kiev incredibly more complex.

Posted by: Harlock at May 19, 2022 04:11 PM (RCySr)

451 They couldn't get them to Ukraine instantly, but the Russian people would be clamoring for full mobilization if the Ukrainian Army started invading Russia proper.
---------------
NATO would over ride any attempt of the Ukes going on the offensive. Washington can't twist that many arms.

Posted by: Puddin Head at May 19, 2022 04:12 PM (D8mow)

452 Ace --

Now, only now, you have truly manifested a "Smart Military Blog" into being.

Posted by: A Concerned Citizen at May 19, 2022 04:12 PM (zcPgo)

453 "Everyone here assumes Russia wanted to end this fast. The evidence doesn't support that assumption. They may want this to last a long time to drain NATO and America of any meaningful resolve and put themselves in the cat bird seat of deciding how it ends. "

So, I've heard variations on this since the start, its obviously wrong. Here's why:

(1) You don't throw your best units away to get to a stalemate. They threw their best Spetznaz and VDV units at Hostomel airport on day 1. By the end of day 1 it was back in Ukrainian hands. I've watched what's been destroyed, its a lot of newer stuff first, more recently its been older stuff the Russians are losing.

(2) The game plan doesn't match this. You don't try to seize an airfield next to the capital city, then bring a blitz attack from the north to link up with it unless your plan is to try and quickly gain a foothold from which to threaten the capital city, and probably to decapitate the government.

(3) Realistically, given the quantity of confirmable lost equipment the Russians have lost a lot of men. I mean a lot. And its some of their best units: VDV, spetznaz, etc...

Posted by: P.Mo. at May 19, 2022 04:12 PM (6Cx+M)

454 NATO would over ride any attempt of the Ukes going on the offensive. Washington can't twist that many arms.

Posted by: Puddin Head at May 19, 2022 04:12 PM (D8mow)

Agreed. That's why they stay on their side of the line, except to fling a few drones or artillery shells in to the mix.

Posted by: A Concerned Citizen at May 19, 2022 04:13 PM (zcPgo)

455 443 then explain 15+ countries that need to be in NATO to defend themselves against Russia. I'll wait.
Posted by: Yip at May 19, 2022 04:00 PM (d+Tm9)
----------------
Western Europe has been saved twice by the Russians. They are the ones that defeated Napoleon and Hitler. The price they paid on the later was stunning in human lives.

Posted by: Puddin Head at May 19, 2022 04:15 PM (D8mow)

456 ...
Posted by: P.Mo. at May 19, 2022 04:12 PM (6Cx+M)

I was never in the camp that thought that Russia intended to take Kiev, though I think that they were hoping that it would happen.

Also, I suspect that Russian losses have been overstated. The VDV unit that was supposedly wiped out was later seen in Izyum, for example.

This kind of thing is off the charts in this conflict, beyond anything that I've ever seen before.

Posted by: Harlock at May 19, 2022 04:15 PM (RCySr)

457 174 Well I went and looked at photo of Malcolm Nance and I learned that Republicans including Lauren Boebert want starve babies because they voted against some bill.

Who is Nalcolm Mance?

Posted by: Barney Rubble at May 19, 2022 04:16 PM (LilNs)

458 284 Ace if you love Ukraine so much, why don't you move there?

Posted by: ... at May 19, 2022 03:23 PM (oA0xt)

King Harv gonna move in with Gonzalo Lira.

Posted by: A Concerned Citizen at May 19, 2022 04:17 PM (zcPgo)

459 If Russia's nuclear weapons work they are the only thing that they have maintained. I think they've been rotting for the last thirty years.

Posted by: Braenyard at May 19, 2022 04:17 PM (Gqta/)

460 "The Dnieper River is the line Russia wants the Ukes to accept as the new border between them. Yeah, forcing Ukes to spend large retaking Kherson is probably part of the plan."

I agree that's what Russia wants the border to be. That or they hold all of Ukraine (or at least control it politically).

I disagree over the cost of retaking Kherson. Once you take out the bridges, and there's only two, the entire force on the west side of the river is cut off from resupply except by air. All of Kherson is already within arty range of UAF forces, and they've hit the Kherson airport like 5 times already, taking out a lot of equipment in the process.

Posted by: P.Mo. at May 19, 2022 04:19 PM (6Cx+M)

461 458 284 Ace if you love Ukraine so much, why don't you move there?
---------------
There are many things I liked about Ukraine but the idea of living there was not one of them.

Posted by: Puddin Head at May 19, 2022 04:19 PM (D8mow)

462 When was the last time there was a major war in a region where one side had unmatched air superiority over that region; had unfettered supply lines into that region (while the other side didn't); had superior weaponry and training compared to the other side and went on to be defeated by the side with all the disadvantages?
Don't say Vietnam. - Because the US won every single battle and ultimately helped Nixon force the North to accept a peace treaty that lasted for well over a year after the last US soldier had come home.

Posted by: Bach in Black at May 19, 2022 04:20 PM (7ubmG)

463 I disagree over the cost of retaking Kherson. Once you take out the bridges, and there's only two, the entire force on the west side of the river is cut off from resupply except by air. All of Kherson is already within arty range of UAF forces, and they've hit the Kherson airport like 5 times already, taking out a lot of equipment in the proces
--------------
Artillery is quite effective shooting over rivers. A well disciplined infantry defending gets a 10 to 1 advantage over the attacker. It has all the earmarks of a very nasty meat grinder. See Stalingrad or Iwo Jima as examples of meat grinders.

Posted by: Puddin Head at May 19, 2022 04:21 PM (D8mow)

464 @449 I don't know where this idea that Russia thought it was gonna be a lightning war and over quick.

----

Probably two sources in particular -

1.) Intelligence officers who lied about having sympathetic Ukrainian officials as sources to cover up their own embezzlement of funds earmarked to suborn Ukrainian local officials.
2.) The invasion of Georgia several years ago, which was quite quick.

Posted by: junior at May 19, 2022 04:21 PM (FYGBb)

465 459 If Russia's nuclear weapons work they are the only thing that they have maintained. I think they've been rotting for the last thirty years.

Posted by: Braenyard at May 19, 2022 04:17 PM (Gqta/)

Actually, I think that as a declining power, the missiles are probably the one thing in the Russian military that works and certainly the one thing in which they could afford to properly maintain. Because their economy was sh*t from 1980-2005., the missiles were Russia's best deterrent

Posted by: A Concerned Citizen at May 19, 2022 04:23 PM (zcPgo)

466 Goober said: "I would argue that the equipment is not what is failing the Russians, but rather their tactics, training, and leadership."

I mostly agree. Their tactics and training have been their most lethal adversary, along with corruption. BUT... they've also exposed some critical design failures in their equipment. I mean, those turrets aren't being thrown 50 feet in the air because their tactics are awful, they are being thrown in the air because the Russians made a design choice to hold their ammo inside the passenger compartment, making it much more likely to explode.

Posted by: P.Mo. at May 19, 2022 04:23 PM (6Cx+M)

467 9 What is the possible endgame?
It looks like Biden and NATO will not drop sanctions even if Russia withdraws. They want regime change.
Posted by: MikeN at May 19, 2022 02:36 PM (o/eHL)

They probably want someone onboard with the great reset! Putin isn't quite globalist enough for them.

Posted by: Bonnie Blue - no longer playing the game at May 19, 2022 04:25 PM (9qiMu)

468 "Beyond it being a slog, the demographics are not in favor of UAF occupation. That's what it would take afterward."

Yeah, the city where, after the Russians took the city they left the Ukrainian flag up for several weeks because they were afraid of local protests, and where local protests against the occupation actually had to be put down by Russian forces, that place's "demographics are not in favour of UAF occupation"?

Also you spelled "liberation" wrong.

Posted by: P.Mo. at May 19, 2022 04:26 PM (6Cx+M)

469 Probably two sources in particular -

1.) Intelligence officers who lied about having sympathetic Ukrainian officials as sources to cover up their own embezzlement of funds earmarked to suborn Ukrainian local officials.

Posted by: junior at May 19, 2022 04:21 PM (FYGBb)

---

Another thing that didn't help was that the Russians didn't roll in and change the flag.

That left locals wondering if the Russians were really staying or not.

I've seen multiple man/woman in the street statements talking to that effect.

Posted by: Harlock at May 19, 2022 04:26 PM (RCySr)

470 "If Russia's nuclear weapons work they are the only thing that they have maintained. I think they've been rotting for the last thirty years."

I agree. Given their failure to maintain something as simple as tires I think its pretty likely that the much more sensitive and sophisticated systems of an ICBM are more likely to fail as well. That said, it only takes one or two to get through...

Posted by: P.Mo. at May 19, 2022 04:27 PM (6Cx+M)

471 This doesn't mean I'm on Russia's fuckingside. It means I trust Putin more than the CIA.

This whole thing is Bullshit.
It's been One Big Lie with tiny kernels of truth mixed in.
Posted by: Soothsayer, the #1 name in news at May 19, 2022 03:45 PM (5fcxz)

One Hundred Percent

Posted by: Bonnie Blue - no longer playing the game at May 19, 2022 04:28 PM (9qiMu)

472 Yeah, the city where, after the Russians took the city they left the Ukrainian flag up for several weeks because they were afraid of local protests, and where local protests against the occupation actually had to be put down by Russian forces, that place's "demographics are not in favour of UAF occupation"?

Also you spelled "liberation" wrong.
Posted by: P.Mo. at May 19, 2022 04:26 PM (6Cx+M)

---

Nothing was spelled wrong. The voting pattern over the last 10+ years tells the start of the story.

Posted by: Harlock at May 19, 2022 04:28 PM (RCySr)

473 Also consider that Russian soldiers are probably in heavy rotation.

That means that Russia will emerge with the most seasoned standing army of combat-experienced veterans in the entire world.
- The accrued benefits and advantages to a military culture cannot be overstated.

Posted by: Bach in Black at May 19, 2022 04:37 PM (7ubmG)

474 - Using heavy rotation of soldiers to develop the most combat-experienced army in the world is another excellent reason for Russia to patiently take its time in dismantling Ukraine's military.
Plus, it greatly lowers the occurrence and potency of PTSD on Russia's soldiers and keeps their front line forces fresh - i.e., not burnt out. And that's good for morale.

Posted by: Bach in Black at May 19, 2022 04:41 PM (7ubmG)

475 "Nothing was spelled wrong. The voting pattern over the last 10+ years tells the start of the story."

In the last election pro-Russian parties got 20 or 27 of the Rada seats in the Kherson Oblast (depends on whether you consider Our Land to be a pro-Russian party simply because its founders were formerly leaders of a pro-Russian party. The more euro-centric parties got either 36 or 43 Rada seats depending on where you put Our Land. Its also worth noting that BOTH of the major pro-Russian parties elected to seats in Kherson oblast have condemned the invasion. In 2015 it was 42 euro-centric/nationalist parties and either 13 or 20 pro-Russian ones (again depending on how you classified Our Land).

Posted by: P.Mo. at May 19, 2022 04:57 PM (6Cx+M)

476
It depends on how many of their logistics vehicles have been lost in an operational sense. They were beating the hell out of their trucks, and the in garrison maintenance is questionable at best.

One fellow on twitter suggested that about the end of April or first part of May the trucks would mostly done, so no resupply and things would go to hell quickly.

Maybe they're bringing in trucks from other regions or commandeering civilian trucks, but we'll find out soon enough.

Posted by: I R A Darth Aggie at May 19, 2022 04:58 PM (1hM1d)

477 "Using heavy rotation of soldiers to develop the most combat-experienced army in the world is another excellent reason for Russia to patiently take its time in dismantling Ukraine's military."

Yes, its important to gain combat experience by losing big chunks of the most professional parts of your army, along with hundreds of pieces of military equipment which you cannot replace without western components.

Posted by: P.Mo. at May 19, 2022 04:59 PM (6Cx+M)

478 "One fellow on twitter suggested that about the end of April or first part of May the trucks would mostly done, so no resupply and things would go to hell quickly.

Maybe they're bringing in trucks from other regions or commandeering civilian trucks, but we'll find out soon enough."

(1) They are now heavily relying on the train into Kupyansk for most of their logistics in the northeast (Izium, Rubizyne and Popasna axes). This was a sensible move on their part.

(2) Until very recently it was getting more difficult for Ukraine to target Russian trucks because their supply routes were further behind the front lines. That is degrading in the areas around Vovchansk, Kupyansk and Izium.

(3) The Russians have pressganged a large quantity of civilian vehicles to replace truck losses.

Posted by: P.Mo. at May 19, 2022 05:03 PM (6Cx+M)

479 The Russians using rail... It's kind of fundamental to the structure of their BTGs.

"Degrading" around Popasnaya.

Posted by: Harlock at May 19, 2022 05:11 PM (RCySr)

480 P.Mo., what you describe may well happen.
But it's a massive assumption.

The other (not-so-massive) assumption is that it's the Ukrainians who are gradually losing huge chunks of their fighting forces, armaments, and INSTALLATIONS.

In the fog of war, it is folly to assume one way or the other.

Posted by: Bach in Black at May 19, 2022 05:11 PM (7ubmG)

481 In the fog of war, it is folly to assume one way or the other.
Posted by: Bach in Black at May 19, 2022 05:11 PM (7ubmG)

---

I'm dropping another *this* ^^^

Posted by: Harlock at May 19, 2022 05:14 PM (RCySr)

482 In the last election pro-Russian parties got 20 or 27 of the Rada seats in the Kherson Oblast (depends on whether you consider Our Land to be a pro-Russian party simply because its founders were formerly leaders of a pro-Russian party. The more euro-centric parties got either 36 or 43 Rada seats depending on where you put Our Land. Its also worth noting that BOTH of the major pro-Russian parties elected to seats in Kherson oblast have condemned the invasion. In 2015 it was 42 euro-centric/nationalist parties and either 13 or 20 pro-Russian ones (again depending on how you classified Our Land).
Posted by: P.Mo. at May 19, 2022 04:57 PM (6Cx+M)

---

As mentioned, the pattern is the start of the story.

There's a sizable group there that boycotts voting because they've lost faith in the system. Those tend to be pro-Russian.

It also sounds familiar closer to home.

Posted by: Harlock at May 19, 2022 05:35 PM (RCySr)

483 Most people who live there consider themselves to be Russian and don't want to be part of Ukraine.
Posted by: A Concerned Citizen at May 19, 2022 04:09 PM (zcPgo)

The majority of people in the Donbas are Ukrainians who speak Russian, just like Zelenskyy; they do not consider themselves Russian, and at most considered alliance with Russia pre-2014 to be either prudent or desirable. A lot has changed since then.

The only region that had a Russian majority is the Crimea (not that it justifies Russia's annexation).

It doesn't really matter either way; there is a fundamental disagreement within the Right over Russia and Eastern Europe, and that is what drives our differing perspectives on American interests in the region. This is an intra conservative rupture, not a conflict between the GOPe and conservatives.

Posted by: lowtech redneck at May 19, 2022 06:14 PM (hfClf)

484 I'm amazed at the amount of Ivan lovers here. Just because you hate Brandon, doesn't make Ivan good. Russia is getting it's shit pushed in and is losing ground that they took during the rapid onset of the war. Their C&C is absolute garbage and with the upcoming infusion of even more western/US equipment and training, it is only going to get worse for them.

Also, the billions of war aid that was given to Ukraine is not stacks of cash but old equipment. It is like giving your outdated clothes to the Goodwill and calling it a $100 donation.

Posted by: GarryOwen at May 19, 2022 06:14 PM (VWLi5)

485 Young men die to Achieve the Goals of Madmen

Posted by: Tamaa the Drongo Bird at May 19, 2022 06:32 PM (wGqjj)

486 I'm amazed at the amount of Ivan lovers here. Just because you hate Brandon, doesn't make Ivan good.

Posted by: GarryOwen at May 19, 2022 06:14 PM (VWLi5)

---

Because that's the only possible scenario at play here.

The angle worked so well with Saddam Hussein and Gadaffi.

Posted by: Harlock at May 19, 2022 06:45 PM (RCySr)

487 I don't know where this idea that Russia thought it was gonna be a lightning war and over quick. In fact, they have much to gain by dragging this out. Petro dollar severely undercut; strong Ruble, frayed globalist , crippled US economy from printing and sending money to UKR. As long as Putin is healthy, he's good. 18 months of this will drastically destroy the Democrats and globalists.
Posted by: Yip at May 19, 2022 04:11 PM (d+Tm9)
==
The oil flow out of Russia is already decreasing. they don't have enough demand to keep the wells pumping. All the northern wells if required to stop pumping won't pump again. The russian petro dollar has diminishing returns. They are using it to prop up the ruble to keep domestic inflation in check, but it has a shelf life, and it doesn't support a long Russian hold out if they are not seeing material progress on the ground. They need to get to Odessa, without it, they are screwed.

Posted by: Black JEM at May 19, 2022 07:12 PM (LyTO1)

488 The oil flow out of Russia is already decreasing.
Posted by: Black JEM at May 19, 2022 07:12 PM (LyTO1)

That very well could be true, but we're gonna need a longer trend line to know for sure. What they're probably banking on is the expansion of BRICS.

Russian Oil Demand By Year

http://shorturl.at/ouRS5

Posted by: Harlock at May 19, 2022 07:20 PM (RCySr)

489 Dang it. Also meant to mention, beyond BRICS expansion, we'll see how many countries can hold out before they open gas for rubles accounts.

Russia planned on their multi-axis invasion to lead to a lightning victory.

The EU planned on Instant Thunder sanctions leading to a lighting victory.

Posted by: Harlock at May 19, 2022 07:31 PM (RCySr)

490 "When was the last time there was a major war in a region where one side had unmatched air superiority over that region; had unfettered supply lines into that region (while the other side didn't); had superior weaponry and training compared to the other side and went on to be defeated by the side with all the disadvantages?"

None of this is at play here. Russia doesn't have air superiority. Air superiority remains contested; partly by UAF aircraft, but even more so by MANPADs and SAMs. I mean, Russian helicopters are doing this weird "lift up the nose and shoot rockets up in the air" attacks on UAF positions because they are too afraid to get anywhere near the front lines.

Posted by: P.Mo. at May 20, 2022 09:24 AM (6Cx+M)

491 Their supply lines are good at the moment, but are under threat, particularly in the Izium axis where they've now redeployed an entire army group to try to shore up their supply routes. They have more equipment and more men, but they don't have superior training or equipment, they just have more of it. Russia's T80s have blown up just as well as UAFs upgraded T64s. In fact, some Ukrainian weapons are actually superior (the BT-4 is superior to the BTRs, the M1777 are far superior to any Russian artillery, as are the French Caesars. They are vastly better equipped with ATGMs)

Posted by: P.Mo. at May 20, 2022 09:24 AM (6Cx+M)

492 "P.Mo., what you describe may well happen.
But it's a massive assumption.

The other (not-so-massive) assumption is that it's the Ukrainians who are gradually losing huge chunks of their fighting forces, armaments, and INSTALLATIONS."

There's no doubt the UAF are taking fairly heavy losses as well, but the UAF can mostly backfill equipment losses with captured Russian equipment and NATO supplies. UAF may actually have more tanks now than they did in February.

The biggest potential loss for Ukraine would be in trained trigger pullers. But... Ukraine has been heavily training since 2014 for this sort of event, so there are a lot of people with at least some sort of military training out there to draw from. Plus NATO countries have been training Ukrainian forces pretty much non-stop since 2014, and are probably still training them now.

Posted by: P.Mo. at May 20, 2022 09:29 AM (6Cx+M)

493 "As mentioned, the pattern is the start of the story.

There's a sizable group there that boycotts voting because they've lost faith in the system. Those tend to be pro-Russian.

It also sounds familiar closer to home."

Out of 256 000 voters, roughly, 70 000 people voted in the 2020 municipal elections. That's about 27% turnout.

Let's compare that to three US cities of similar population size: Fort Wayne (34%), Toledo (23.6%) and Madison 20%. Its not that bad for local elections.

Posted by: P.Mo. at May 20, 2022 10:12 AM (6Cx+M)

494 "Also, the billions of war aid that was given to Ukraine is not stacks of cash but old equipment. It is like giving your outdated clothes to the Goodwill and calling it a $100 donation."

Sort of. I mean yes, the M113's, T-72s and other older vehicles being given are certainly not modern, but the Stingers, Javalins, NLAWs, Switchblade drones, M1777s all are newer tech.

Posted by: P.Mo. at May 20, 2022 10:15 AM (6Cx+M)

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