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Organic Food & Anti-Vaxxers - Does The Fear of Safe Food Lead to Fear of Safe Vaccines
[BUCK THROCKMORTON]

The American media and our popular culture both celebrate a fear of safe, nutritious food if it is not labeled “organic.” To be consistent then, why don’t we also celebrate anti-vaxxers’ fear of safe vaccines, which are also not “organic?” To be clear, I am not an anti-vaxxer. I am strongly pro-vaccine. Everyone in my house is vaccinated, and I am appalled at the outbreaks of contagious diseases due to anti-vaxxers. But let’s be clear, a venn diagram of those who obsess about organic food and anti-vaxxers will reveal a major overlap. If you know an anti-vaxxer, he is most likely committed to an organic diet.

Our culture accepts as a scientific fact that organic food is healthier than non-organic food. You can watch TV, read popular magazines, or listen to healthy-living gurus, and overwhelmingly you will be told that organic food is healthier than non-organic food. Recipes tend to call for organic produce and ingredients. And it goes beyond organic foods. Genetically-modified foods are slandered as “frankenfoods” concocted by mad scientists in a laboratory. Further, we are admonished to avoid anything that is not “natural.”

OK then. Vaccines are genetically modified, lab-made, and certainly not natural. Being anti-vax seems a logical extension of the natural, organic lifestyle.

I know several people - including family members - who have so completely bought into the natural-organic hype that they genuinely believe GMO and non-organic foods are poisonous. They would rather starve themselves and their children to death than ingest a gram of non-organic food. They look at the shelves of a regular grocery store and see rows and rows of poison. There is a medical term for this fear of safe healthy food - it’s called “orthorexia.” I am not shocked that some of these individuals are anti-vaxxers. Instead, I am shocked (and relieved) that some of the orthorexics I know actually do vaccinate themselves and their children.

I used to be amused that Whole Foods could gouge its customers and get them to pay a “designer label premium” for regular groceries. Like patrons of Saks or Nieman Marcus, Whole Foods’ affluent customers could feel a sense of affluent superiority to those who shop at mass market grocery stores. But it’s now clear that Whole Foods isn’t just putting a fancy hood ornament on its groceries - its business model also promotes fear – a fear that if you don’t stretch your wallet for “safe” organic groceries, then you are imperiling the health and safety of yourself and your loved ones. That is wicked. And very effective. The organic food obsessives I know include cash strapped individuals who do not have the means to afford the Whole Foods lifestyle. But they shop there anyhow. They have to. Out of fear.

Vaccinations are critical to the safety of our communities, so we must keep striving to educate citizens on the importance of vaccinations. But let’s also stop celebrating the irrational fear of safe, healthy groceries. If we are going to applaud an individual for being terrified of a can of Del Monte green beans, then we can hardly be surprised that she is terrified of injecting her child with a lab-made, genetically modified, live virus of an awful disease.

Posted by: Open Blogger at 07:30 PM




Comments

(Jump to bottom of comments)

1

Organic is bunkum, no?

Posted by: Soothsayer, very senile at December 07, 2019 07:37 PM (Xd1wG)

2 Well, there is certainly an overlap of mindset.

Posted by: Aetius451AD at December 07, 2019 07:37 PM (ycWCI)

3 "Smallpox is natural; vaccine ain't."

~ Ogden Nash

Posted by: Codfanglers at December 07, 2019 07:38 PM (A0H36)

4 All New Religions need dietary restrictions, to make the Faithful feel committed to the Faith on a daily basis.

Posted by: Tom Servo at December 07, 2019 07:38 PM (V2Yro)

5 Thirst

Posted by: Builder Berg at December 07, 2019 07:38 PM (2QjP7)

6
Romaine lettuce? Organic.

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at December 07, 2019 07:38 PM (7rVsF)

7 Organic is crap. Sometimes literally! Where do you think all the e-coli contamination of our lettuce comes from?

Posted by: Tonypete at December 07, 2019 07:39 PM (Y4EXg)

8 Why is the Epstein didn't kill himself meme like an anti-vaxxer kid?


It'll never get old.

Posted by: rickb223 at December 07, 2019 07:39 PM (ElK6Q)

9 This is the Movie Thread ?

Posted by: JT at December 07, 2019 07:39 PM (arJlL)

10 What are wine moms up to now?

First, sunning their anuses and now afraid of canned green beans and getting a polio vax?

Lots of stupid democrats out there.

Posted by: Hairyback Guy at December 07, 2019 07:39 PM (Z+IKu)

11 Coulda been top 50 but yeah, read the content.

Posted by: teej at December 07, 2019 07:39 PM (L8JfA)

12
Anti-vaxxer? I'm anti-taxxer.

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at December 07, 2019 07:40 PM (7rVsF)

13 It is the collapse of organized, formal religion, which has made all of these faux religions explode. People are desperate to feel that they have done something to make themselves Righteous, and in the absence of formal religion they will go to great lengths to arrange it.

Posted by: Tom Servo at December 07, 2019 07:40 PM (V2Yro)

14 That's odd. I was just discussing this very thing with WeaselDog.

Posted by: Weasel at December 07, 2019 07:40 PM (MVjcR)

15 7 Organic is crap. Sometimes literally! Where do you think all the e-coli contamination of our lettuce comes from?
Posted by: Tonypete at December 07, 2019 07:39 PM (Y4EXg)

Lets take everything we have learned in thousands of years of agriculture and throw all that shit out the window... and onto the food!

Posted by: Aetius451AD at December 07, 2019 07:41 PM (ycWCI)

16 In my youth, working to solve world hunger at the US Grain & Marketing Research Lab, I would keep up with the literature. We had "Food Technology"magazine in the library. Quite the eye opener.

Even back then, the about of processing that went into food sold to the public was an undisclosed subject.

Posted by: NaCly Dog at December 07, 2019 07:41 PM (u82oZ)

17 The amount. Sigh.

Posted by: NaCly Dog at December 07, 2019 07:42 PM (u82oZ)

18 Funny how every atheist on his deathbed cries, "God help me"

Posted by: Builder Berg at December 07, 2019 07:42 PM (2QjP7)

19 Organic is crap. Sometimes literally! Where do you think all the e-coli contamination of our lettuce comes from?
Posted by: Tonypete


Comes from pickers shitting in the fields while picking.

Posted by: rickb223 at December 07, 2019 07:42 PM (ElK6Q)

20

E. coli lettuce is organic.

Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at December 07, 2019 07:44 PM (aKsyK)

21 Evolution hasn't been given a fair chance with the advent of so many vaccines!

Don't try to fool Mother Nature!

Posted by: RNC Commissar Hrothgar knows that EDKH at December 07, 2019 07:45 PM (BiNEL)

22 Since I eat plants and meat, rather than rocks or dirt, I eat organic. But I don't pay extra for specially labeled versions of regular food.

Posted by: Empire1 at December 07, 2019 07:45 PM (6w3GG)

23 Americans, as a group, have a very poor understanding of risk and risk factors.

I have no data on this, but that hasn't stopped me before from mouthing off.

Posted by: Tonypete at December 07, 2019 07:45 PM (Y4EXg)

24 19 Organic is crap. Sometimes literally! Where do you think all the e-coli contamination of our lettuce comes from?
Posted by: Tonypete
Comes from pickers shitting in the fields while picking.
Posted by: rickb223 at December 07, 2019 07:42 PM (ElK6Q)

The shitting might not be so bad if they didn't wipe their asses with their hands and then pick your lettuce with those hands, no washing.

Posted by: Tom Servo at December 07, 2019 07:46 PM (V2Yro)

25 Anti-vaxxer? I'm anti-taxxer.

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at December 07, 2019 07:40 PM (7rVsF)


I'm betting Mayor Pete is a Pro-waxxer!

Posted by: RNC Commissar Hrothgar knows that EDKH at December 07, 2019 07:46 PM (BiNEL)

26 Best of all is the fact that all these shriekers are too dumb to figure out that the war over GMOs was lost by them about 6000 years ago. Much of people turning stupid over food has to do with the failure to properly teach history, among other things.

Posted by: Catch Thirty-Thr33 at December 07, 2019 07:46 PM (vLRri)

27 14 That's odd. I was just discussing this very thing with WeaselDog.
Posted by: Weasel at December 07, 2019 07:40 PM (MVjcR)

Non GMO WeaselDog. Probably organic too. But vaccinated.

Posted by: squirrelly dan at December 07, 2019 07:47 PM (ghM7c)

28 The label 'organic' is a fraud. It's signaling virtue with food.

Posted by: mikeyG at December 07, 2019 07:47 PM (lnyJN)

29 Facts only get in the way of a good argument....ask any libstained, tofu-farter...

Posted by: Builder Berg at December 07, 2019 07:47 PM (2QjP7)

30 My wife has bought into the organic craze, it's no different than ordinary to me. Some short time ago organic milk was all we saw at a store we normally don't go to so got it. She raved for weeks it was the best milk ever but at better than twice the price, no fkin way.

Posted by: Skip at December 07, 2019 07:47 PM (ZCEU2)

31 The shitting might not be so bad if they didn't wipe their asses with their hands and then pick your lettuce with those hands, no washing.

Oh.

I thought they wiped their asses with the lettuce leaves.

Posted by: JT at December 07, 2019 07:47 PM (arJlL)

32 We'll lose 20-30 million tops

Posted by: BUCK TURGIDSON at December 07, 2019 07:47 PM (rpxSz)

33 vaxx vaxx
jab jab

Posted by: vmom, anti-vahzist at December 07, 2019 07:48 PM (G546f)

34 E. coli lettuce is organic.

Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at December 07, 2019 07:44 PM (aKsyK)


Isn't the e. coli bacteria a naturally occurring one?

Posted by: RNC Commissar Hrothgar knows that EDKH at December 07, 2019 07:48 PM (BiNEL)

35
I have no data on this, but that hasn't stopped me before from mouthing off.

Posted by: Tonypete at December 07, 2019 07:45 PM (Y4EXg)


I said of a co-worker that complete ignorance of a subject was no deterrent to tendering his worthless opinion.

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at December 07, 2019 07:48 PM (7rVsF)

36 I wonder if anti-vaxxers get their dogs the rabies shots and others?

Posted by: rickb223 at December 07, 2019 07:49 PM (ElK6Q)

37 the best defense is not to eat any fruits or veggies

Posted by: vmom, anti-vahzist at December 07, 2019 07:49 PM (G546f)

38 I thought global Warming was going to kill us in twelve years. Will the poisonous food get us first? I'd hide under my bed but I think that's where the hole in ozone layer is.

Posted by: Bilwis, Devourer of Low Glycemic Souls at December 07, 2019 07:49 PM (jp0Bv)

39 CHEMTRAILS!!!!

Posted by: Loons! at December 07, 2019 07:49 PM (I2/tG)

40 latimes.com/entertainment/movies/la et mn biggest little farm documentary

Posted by: Skip at December 07, 2019 07:50 PM (ZCEU2)

41 I thought they wiped their asses with the lettuce leaves.
Posted by: JT at December 07, 2019 07:47 PM (arJlL)

They do it with the whole head, and then they toss it into the pick box.

Posted by: Tom Servo at December 07, 2019 07:50 PM (V2Yro)

42
I've had so many preservatives that my body is going to live longer than I am.

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at December 07, 2019 07:50 PM (7rVsF)

43 If the scientific community still held the respect of a conformist and trusting society, no one would have trouble with vaccinations. But they have squandered that trust, at best in the cause of stubbornness, at worst in the service of tyranny.

How could anyone be surprised at this being the result?

Posted by: trev006 at December 07, 2019 07:50 PM (6OzV/)

44 Speaking of Frankenfoods. The Impossible Burger is a chemistry experiment. Yet, oddly, I don't hear anyone shouting about that. If the get one molecule wrong in the lab mix the odds of colon cancer skyrocket.
Yet, it's made to look and, allegedly taste, like meat. No vegan or vegetarian wants that. Why? Because meat.

Posted by: Winston a dreg of society at December 07, 2019 07:50 PM (Tt761)

45 9 This is the Movie Thread ?
Posted by: JT

it's a documentary

Posted by: vmom, anti-vahzist at December 07, 2019 07:51 PM (G546f)

46 I said of a co-worker that complete ignorance of a subject was no deterrent to tendering his worthless opinion.
Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at December 07, 2019 07:48 PM (7rVsF)

That'd be like demanding that people hear read the post before they start commenting!!!

Posted by: Tom Servo at December 07, 2019 07:51 PM (V2Yro)

47 I thought global Warming was going to kill us in twelve years. Will the poisonous food get us first? I'd hide under my bed but I think that's where the hole in ozone layer is.
Posted by: Bilwis, Devourer of Low Glycemic Souls at December 07, 2019 07:49 PM (jp0Bv)

Hey, that's my hiding spot!...

Posted by: Acid Rain at December 07, 2019 07:52 PM (Z+IKu)

48 It's getting hard to find real food in some categories, now. They sell nothing but "organic" bean sprouts, for example.

A & W restaurants are quacking about selling eggs from "vegan-fed chickens". But chickens are natural carnivores, and free-range chickens absolutely will eat bugs and worms. Of course the peckerheads also sell that Frankenmeat made out of some waste silage or some such thing, too.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at December 07, 2019 07:52 PM (/sgva)

49 https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1637620/
Fresh
A movie about sustainable organic farming

Posted by: Skip at December 07, 2019 07:52 PM (ZCEU2)

50 If you've ever eaten a "Blue Lakes Green Bean", you're munching on the delicious scientific genius of my neighbor, Lynn B. Kerr, who developed the strain while working for Northrup King in the early 70's...

Posted by: Builder Berg at December 07, 2019 07:52 PM (2QjP7)

51
I actively avoid buying food labeled "organic" if possible. I won't automatically reject it, but I regard it as a sign of probable lower quality, and something of a scam anyway. Any health risk from modern pesticide and fertilizer use is infinitesimal, and the organic-labeled stuff is not entirely free of those things anyway.

There are plenty of low-level naturally-occurring carcinogens and toxins. Can't escape it.

How many of the organic religionists willing take marijuana smoke into their bodies? How many want to coddle and tolerate the dangerous vagrants and derelicts who attack without warning, and are increasingly vectors for typhus and hepatitis? Speaking of Venn diagrams.

Posted by: Semi-Literate Thug at December 07, 2019 07:52 PM (t5m5e)

52 will anyone carp about me throwing a couple of fish puns ?

Posted by: REDACTED at December 07, 2019 07:52 PM (rpxSz)

53
That'd be like demanding that people hear read the post before they start commenting!!!

Posted by: Tom Servo at December 07, 2019 07:51 PM (V2Yro)


Let's not start going crazy.

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at December 07, 2019 07:52 PM (7rVsF)

54 Scotch has never been recalled due to e.coli.

Just sayin.

Posted by: rickb223 at December 07, 2019 07:52 PM (ElK6Q)

55 I thought they wiped their asses with the lettuce leaves.
Posted by: JT

----

Mrs TP - "Hey Hon, want a salad for supper?"

TP - "Ahh, no, I'm good."

Posted by: Tonypete at December 07, 2019 07:53 PM (Y4EXg)

56 oh hubby bought one of those "living lettuce" heads at wegmans - you know, lettuce with roots in a little plastuc pot
he cut off the leaves and keeps it watered and it's slowly growing back!
LOL

Posted by: vmom, anti-vahzist at December 07, 2019 07:53 PM (G546f)

57 Isn't all food organic?

I mean, its not like it comes from a Lab.

There may be stuff ON it that some don't like, but its still organic.

Posted by: Don Quixote USN, Ret. at December 07, 2019 07:54 PM (NgKpN)

58 Years ago I knew someone who worked for the Department of Agriculture. He claimed Agriculture defined "Organic" as food with an allowed bug content higher than non-organic food. So more bug parts in your "natural"food.

Posted by: Larsen E. Whipsnade at December 07, 2019 07:54 PM (bML9A)

59 I wouldn't want my child injected with a can of DelMonte green beans either.

Posted by: Slim at December 07, 2019 07:54 PM (iEXgF)

60 CHEMTRAILS!!!!

Posted by: Loons!


Sorry, but the govs' track record on nefarious projects, has me refusing to believe they are not incapable of anything my twisted imagination can conceive.

Posted by: Some rat in the swamp at December 07, 2019 07:54 PM (LOq4H)

61 and free-range chickens absolutely will eat bugs and worms.
Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon

---

Free range chickens also eat the chicken shit on the ground. Caged chickens to not.

Just saying.

Posted by: Tonypete at December 07, 2019 07:55 PM (Y4EXg)

62 http://www.dirtthemovie.org/
Narrarated by Jamie Lee Curtis
Exploring the relationship between humans and the soil

Posted by: Skip at December 07, 2019 07:55 PM (ZCEU2)

63 I've heard of women who are very particular what they put in their bodies and then they take synthetic hormones in order to break a healthy, natural body function.

Posted by: Emmie at December 07, 2019 07:56 PM (87gB3)

64

That's a weird movie title

Posted by: TheQuietMan at December 07, 2019 07:56 PM (a4xU3)

65 58 Years ago I knew someone who worked for the Department of Agriculture. He claimed Agriculture defined "Organic" as food with an allowed bug content higher than non-organic food. So more bug parts in your "natural"food.

Posted by: Larsen E. Whipsnade at December 07, 2019 07:54 PM (bML9A)


Mmm dirt good, bugs = more protein.
Hippies in Star Trek on a death trip.

Posted by: Slim at December 07, 2019 07:56 PM (iEXgF)

66 There are three kinds of foods--natural, unnatural, and supernatural.

Posted by: BeckoningChasm at December 07, 2019 07:56 PM (l9m7l)

67 will anyone carp about me throwing a couple of fish puns ?
Posted by: REDACTED


As long as it's for the halibut, no.

Posted by: rickb223 at December 07, 2019 07:56 PM (ElK6Q)

68 In Oregon, you have lots of both left-wing antivaxxers, and fundamentalist Christian antivaxxers.

Schools with unusually low vaccination rates tend to have the words "Waldorf", "Environmental", or "Christian" in the name of the school.

Posted by: The ARC of History! at December 07, 2019 07:56 PM (I2/tG)

69 Maybe the ozone layer prefers to have a hole.

Posted by: klaftern at December 07, 2019 07:57 PM (RuIsu)

70 65 58 Years ago I knew someone who worked for the Department of Agriculture. He claimed Agriculture defined "Organic" as food with an allowed bug content higher than non-organic food. So more bug parts in your "natural"food.

Posted by: Larsen E. Whipsnade at December 07, 2019 07:54 PM (bML9A)


Mmm dirt good, bugs = more protein.
Hippies in Star Trek on a death trip.
Posted by: Slim at December 07, 2019 07:56 PM (iEXgF)

Herbert!

Posted by: Space Hippie at December 07, 2019 07:57 PM (NgKpN)

71 I didn't want my vaccines, but mom hid them in the paste.

Posted by: Now Joey is Tarded at December 07, 2019 07:57 PM (rJX8C)

72 "Impossible Meat" has found its way out here to the boonies.

I've never noticed anyone putting it into *their* shopping cart, and at ~$9/lb for ground, uh, scamburger, it sure as hell isn't going into *mine!*

Posted by: JQ at December 07, 2019 07:57 PM (gP/Z3)

73 62 http://www.dirtthemovie.org/
Narrarated by Jamie Lee Curtis
Exploring the relationship between humans and the soil

Posted by: Skip at December 07, 2019 07:55 PM (ZCEU2)


Is she ah natural?

Posted by: Slim at December 07, 2019 07:57 PM (iEXgF)

74 Americans, as a group, have a very poor understanding of risk and risk factors.



I have no data on this, but that hasn't stopped me before from mouthing off.

Posted by: Tonypete
............
My wife insists I thoroughly rinse head lettuce before we use it.
So, I dutifully cut it into quarters, run water over it, then let it dry on a towel.
I stopped arguing with her a long time ago that if there is e-coli in the lettuce, rinsing it will not take care of it.
And any chemicals like bug spray or whatever are so infinitesimal, they needn't be worried about... especially since I peel off the outer layers anyway.

But.. like I said.. I gave up arguing a long time ago..

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at December 07, 2019 07:58 PM (438dO)

75 I mean, its not like it comes from a Lab.

There may be stuff ON it that some don't like, but its still organic.
Posted by: Don Quixote USN, Ret. at December 07, 2019 07:54 PM (NgKpN)

True, dat. Some of it comes from Huskies and Poodles, too.

Posted by: Barack Obama at December 07, 2019 07:58 PM (/sgva)

76 So FDR removed Admiral Richardson from command coz he disagreed with moving the fleet to Pearl Harbor without further training

Admiral Kimmel takes over

would Richardson have been more prepared?

Posted by: vmom, anti-vahzist at December 07, 2019 07:58 PM (G546f)

77
Scotch has never been recalled due to e.coli.

Just sayin.


Manager Joe McCarthy wanted to teach slugger Hack Wilson, a notorious tippler, about the dangers of drinking. He dropped a worm in a glass of water, where it started swimming around and another in a glass of scotch, where it promptly died.

"What would you conclude from this?" McCarthy asked. Wilson replied, "If I drink enough I won't get worms."

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at December 07, 2019 07:58 PM (7rVsF)

78 Now THIS is a movie about organic farming!!!

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0081184/

trailer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4AR3BgaCdA

Posted by: Tom Servo at December 07, 2019 07:59 PM (V2Yro)

79 Not to be picky...

Non-organic is to be inedible.

But if you mean non-Organic, as in lower prices and less chance of aphids and other bugs, then you are correct.

I think. Humans confuse me so. Nyah

Posted by: Anna Puma at December 07, 2019 07:59 PM (d5Ayn)

80 As long as it's for the halibut, no.
Posted by: rickb223 at December 07, 2019 07:56 PM (ElK6Q)

bang the drum slowly

Posted by: REDACTED at December 07, 2019 08:00 PM (rpxSz)

81 bang the drum slowly
Posted by: REDACTED


That's a new one. Golf clap.

Posted by: rickb223 at December 07, 2019 08:00 PM (ElK6Q)

82 Ice cream comprises all three legs of my food pyramid.....use to include Coke and pretzels butt the kidney stones were too pricey...

Posted by: Builder Berg at December 07, 2019 08:00 PM (2QjP7)

83 Isn't all food organic?



I mean, its not like it comes from a Lab.



There may be stuff ON it that some don't like, but its still organic.

Posted by: Don Quixote

.............
A tomato knows no difference from Nitrogen from pellets you spread vs. Nitrogen from compost.

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at December 07, 2019 08:00 PM (438dO)

84 will anyone carp about me throwing a couple of fish puns ?
Posted by: REDACTED


As long as it's for the halibut, no.

Posted by: rickb223 at December 07, 2019 07:56 PM (ElK6Q)


I certainly hope that the resurgence of fish puns is a mere fluke!

Posted by: RNC Commissar Hrothgar knows that EDKH at December 07, 2019 08:01 PM (BiNEL)

85 You can't argue with 'organic' nuts though.
The ones I know can "taste the difference".

You'll convict and jail Barack Obama before you convince them that their food is only overpriced due to inefficient production.

Posted by: mikeyG at December 07, 2019 08:01 PM (lnyJN)

86 ok if we're talking about wirms
let me flashback to the wiggly white worms we found in some fresh caught salmon from a costco seafoid expo
eeeeeeewwwww

Posted by: vmom, anti-vahzist at December 07, 2019 08:01 PM (G546f)

87 But.. like I said.. I gave up arguing a long time ago..

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at December 07, 2019 07:58 PM (438dO)


There is aerosol debris while that lettuce etc. is on the shelf and in transit.

Posted by: Slim at December 07, 2019 08:01 PM (iEXgF)

88
As long as it's for the halibut, no.
Posted by: rickb223 at December 07, 2019 07:56 PM (ElK6Q)

bang the drum slowly
Posted by: REDACTED at December 07, 2019 08:00 PM (rpxSz)

------------

Now we're going to flounder in fish puns!

Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at December 07, 2019 08:01 PM (7rVsF)

89 81
bang the drum slowly

Posted by: REDACTED





That's a new one. Golf clap.

Posted by: rickb223



NOW it's a movie thread!

Posted by: Some rat in the swamp at December 07, 2019 08:01 PM (LOq4H)

90 There are about anoth 1/2 dozen movies of farming I could throw I this odd movie thread

Posted by: Skip at December 07, 2019 08:01 PM (ZCEU2)

91 Sigh!

Stop making sense... it scares the children the child-like.

Posted by: John the River at December 07, 2019 08:03 PM (/3goP)

92 So surprise drum?

Posted by: Anna Puma at December 07, 2019 08:03 PM (d5Ayn)

93 So FDR removed Admiral Richardson from command coz he disagreed with moving the fleet to Pearl Harbor without further training

Admiral Kimmel takes over

would Richardson have been more prepared?
Posted by: vmom, anti-vahzist at December 07, 2019 07:58 PM (G546f)

The fleet was on full alert every day for a month before Pearl Harbor. Kimmel stood them down that weekend to give them a break.

Posted by: Oldcat at December 07, 2019 08:03 PM (eoQWY)

94 Now we're going to flounder in fish puns!
Posted by: Hadrian the Seventh at December 07, 2019 08:01 PM (7rVsF)

Walleye'll be damned! Didn't see that coming down the pike.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at December 07, 2019 08:04 PM (/sgva)

95 I just got in after I made a little trip. Returning, I went by one of our local cattle ranches (Arkansas is a pretty large beef producing state). This ranch, or farm, specializes in Black Angus, and I have never seen so many young calves running around. Evidently, the demand for beef is still high. They don't breed em as a hobby.

Posted by: bill in arkansas at December 07, 2019 08:04 PM (C1Lsn)

96 That's a new one. Golf clap.

Posted by: rickb223 at December 07, 2019 08:00 PM (ElK6Q)


Indeed, well done!

Posted by: RNC Commissar Hrothgar knows that EDKH at December 07, 2019 08:04 PM (BiNEL)

97 would Richardson have been more prepared?

I hope the Navy has memorialized Richardson in some fashion - he publicly opposed moving the fleet to Pearl Harbor, specifically because the fleet would be vulnerable to attack by the Japanese there, and lost his job over it.

He never got a wartime command - Roosevelt must have been pissed. After all Roosevelt was wrong,, and Richardson was right.

Posted by: The ARC of History! at December 07, 2019 08:04 PM (I2/tG)

98 I can tell you without fear of contradiction that, in college, organic chemistry was a ball buster.

Posted by: Tonypete at December 07, 2019 08:04 PM (Y4EXg)

99 I was bullshitting engaging in witty repartee with my idiot about the female judge in Kentucky who was banging everything in sight and would reward or punish attorneys who appeared before her based upon whether they succumbed to her carnal desires.

https://dailym.ai/2OZuVx5

They had some comments I thought I'd share. What do you hear when you walk into her court? "All rise." She was acting pro boner. She preferred a hung jury.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Tyrannosaur Wrangler at December 07, 2019 08:04 PM (+y/Ru)

100 If you asked AOC about the year 2030, she would give you a blank look. 2018+12=2030.

Climate alarmists don't even do the work that anti-vaxxers do.

The children of anti-vaxxers, like Epstein, didn't choose to die.

Posted by: BourbonChicken at December 07, 2019 08:05 PM (LxTcq)

101 EVERYTHING we eat has been genetically modified or comes from sources that have been genetically modified. Have these people not heard of Gregor Mendel? Animal husbandry? Cross-breeding? It's been going on for centuries, if not millennia. The ignorance infuriates me.

Posted by: Insomniac at December 07, 2019 08:05 PM (NWiLs)

102 NOW it's a movie thread!
Posted by: Some rat in the swamp at December 07, 2019 08:01 PM (LOq4H)

RED DRUM

RED DRUM

RED DRUM

Posted by: DANNY TORRANCE at December 07, 2019 08:05 PM (rpxSz)

103 There is aerosol debris....
Posted by: Slim
------

Well, yeah, if it is California lettuce, and Swalwell has been in the area.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at December 07, 2019 08:06 PM (elfAG)

104 99 I was bullshitting engaging in witty repartee with my idiot about the female judge in Kentucky who was banging everything in sight and would reward or punish attorneys who appeared before her based upon whether they succumbed to her carnal desires.

https://dailym.ai/2OZuVx5

They had some comments I thought I'd share. What do you hear when you walk into her court? "All rise." She was acting pro boner. She preferred a hung jury.
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Tyrannosaur Wrangler at December 07, 2019 08:04 PM (+y/Ru)

Get a favorable ruling if you bang the judge and her secretary at the same time? Huh. Second look at getting back into litigation...

Posted by: Insomniac at December 07, 2019 08:06 PM (NWiLs)

105 85 You can't argue with 'organic' nuts though.
The ones I know can "taste the difference".


You should dare them to do a double-blind test and bet a steak dinner that they can't do better than random guessing.

Posted by: Bob the Bilderberg at December 07, 2019 08:06 PM (qc+VF)

106 So FDR removed Admiral Richardson from command coz he disagreed with moving the fleet to Pearl Harbor without further training

Admiral Kimmel takes over

would Richardson have been more prepared?
Posted by: vmom, anti-vahzist at December 07, 2019 07:58 PM (G546f)

Sounds like part of the classic "Dread Tomato Addiction" story, where the scare quote is to crush tomatoes into a goldfish bowl, then add the goldfish, which quickly dies. Therefore Tomatoes are deadly!

Posted by: Oldcat at December 07, 2019 08:07 PM (eoQWY)

107 I just got in after I made a little trip. Returning, I went by one of our local cattle ranches (Arkansas is a pretty large beef producing state). This ranch, or farm, specializes in Black Angus, and I have never seen so many young calves running around. Evidently, the demand for beef is still high. They don't breed em as a hobby.
Posted by: bill in arkansas



Which is why we will never turn totally vegan. Entire species would become extinct. Because no one is raising them for fun.

Posted by: rickb223 at December 07, 2019 08:07 PM (ElK6Q)

108 85 You can't argue with 'organic' nuts though.
The ones I know can "taste the difference".

They need to taste deez nutz.

Posted by: Insomniac at December 07, 2019 08:07 PM (NWiLs)

109 Hmm somehow got the wrong top half on my response there. Sorry vmom.

Posted by: Oldcat at December 07, 2019 08:07 PM (eoQWY)

110 Some short time ago organic milk was all we saw at a store we normally don't go to so got it

Hahaha, organic milk is the shit you milk out of the cow, straight from the barn, put in the fridge in a gal. glass jar and the creme rises to the top.

Posted by: Infidel at December 07, 2019 08:07 PM (O/X1S)

111 38 I thought global Warming was going to kill us in twelve years. Will the poisonous food get us first? I'd hide under my bed but I think that's where the hole in ozone layer is.
Posted by: Bilwis, Devourer of Low Glycemic Souls



I guess you missed it. We died a decade ago because of globull warmening. Remember, 20 years ago all the dire warnings of melting ice packs and disappearing cities along the coast? Sad to hear about Miami being under 20 feet of water. On the other hand, Orlando has lovely Ocean views of the East and West coasts!!

Posted by: Puddleglum at December 07, 2019 08:08 PM (DhSOy)

112 I guess you missed it. We died a decade ago because of globull warmening. Remember, 20 years ago all the dire warnings of melting ice packs and disappearing cities along the coast? Sad to hear about Miami being under 20 feet of water. On the other hand, Orlando has lovely Ocean views of the East and West coasts!!
Posted by: Puddleglum at December 07, 2019 08:08 PM (DhSOy)

My property value increased 20 fold.

Posted by: Insomniac at December 07, 2019 08:09 PM (NWiLs)

113 There are some types of vegetables I try to buy organic; root vegetables in particular. Roots tend to pick up more pesticide residue and that can't be hoof and some are linked to cancers and neurological disorders. In the summer this is easier as I belong to an organic CFA.

Posted by: CN at December 07, 2019 08:09 PM (5wOoy)

114 EVERYTHING we eat has been genetically modified or comes from sources that have been genetically modified. Have these people not heard of Gregor Mendel? Animal husbandry? Cross-breeding? It's been going on for centuries, if not millennia. The ignorance infuriates me.
Posted by: Insomniac at December 07, 2019 08:05 PM (NWiLs)

Look at the original plant corn/maize comes from and what the Indians did to make it into a fairly big eared variety, which we scaled up somewhat afterward.

Posted by: Oldcat at December 07, 2019 08:09 PM (eoQWY)

115 You should dare them to do a double-blind test and bet a steak dinner that they can't do better than random guessing.

Posted by: Bob the Bilderberg



I want that test for our "endangered" Orcas/salmon.

Posted by: Some rat in the swamp at December 07, 2019 08:09 PM (LOq4H)

116 111 38 I thought global Warming was going to kill us in twelve years. Will the poisonous food get us first? I'd hide under my bed but I think that's where the hole in ozone layer is.
Posted by: Bilwis, Devourer of Low Glycemic Souls


I guess you missed it. We died a decade ago because of globull warmening. Remember, 20 years ago all the dire warnings of melting ice packs and disappearing cities along the coast? Sad to hear about Miami being under 20 feet of water. On the other hand, Orlando has lovely Ocean views of the East and West coasts!!
Posted by: Puddleglum at December 07, 2019 08:08 PM (DhSOy)

Wait, I thought we all died from gun violence LAST year!

Posted by: Don Q at December 07, 2019 08:09 PM (NgKpN)

117 Wonder if the norovirus outbreak and unusually bad flu season have any contributing factors?

And do I need a flu shot? I've been relying on herd immunity.

I found out that unlike something like a tetanus vaccine, which provides protection for 10 years, the flu shot only give short-term protection. So I skip it. I've had flu once in 1999.

Posted by: Emmie at December 07, 2019 08:10 PM (87gB3)

118 Some people think they're going to die someday,
but I got news you never have to eat your vegetables.

Posted by: DaveA at December 07, 2019 08:10 PM (FhXTo)

119 Look at the original plant corn/maize comes from and what the Indians did to make it into a fairly big eared variety, which we scaled up somewhat afterward.
Posted by: Oldcat at December 07, 2019 08:09 PM (eoQWY)

The difference is amaizeing.

Posted by: Insomniac at December 07, 2019 08:10 PM (NWiLs)

120 I opened a can of corn as a side dish for my chainstore-bought steak.


That was yesterday.


So far, I'm still alive.


Must be genetics, or luck of the draw, or something.

Posted by: LeftCoast Dawg at December 07, 2019 08:10 PM (sy5kK)

121 Gigantic nutz

I'm all in

Posted by: SHEP at December 07, 2019 08:10 PM (rpxSz)

122 "buck throckmorton" - wasp porn star

Posted by: mjc at December 07, 2019 08:10 PM (Pg+x7)

123 I know several people - including family members - who have so completely bought into the natural-organic hype that they genuinely believe GMO and non-organic foods are poisonous. They would rather starve themselves and their children to death than ingest a gram of non-organic food.

Excellent. Sometimes Darwin can use a hand.

This the nutritional equivalent of the lottery, which is also a stupidity tax.

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at December 07, 2019 08:10 PM (FXaFS)

124 No I can't taste the difference, but I still buy organic roots.

Posted by: CN at December 07, 2019 08:11 PM (5wOoy)

125 I got yer organic root...right HERE!

Posted by: Insomniac at December 07, 2019 08:11 PM (NWiLs)

126 Why is the Epstein didn't kill himself meme like an anti-vaxxer kid?


It'll never get old.

Posted by: rickb223 at December 07, 2019 07:39 PM (ElK6Q)




I laughed like a hyena, and I'm going to hell.

Posted by: Grump928(C) at December 07, 2019 08:11 PM (yQpMk)

127 Look at the original plant corn/maize comes from and what the Indians did to make it into a fairly big eared variety, which we scaled up somewhat afterward.
Posted by: Oldcat at December 07, 2019 08:09 PM (eoQWY)

And now the stuff cannot seed itself.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at December 07, 2019 08:11 PM (/sgva)

128 Organic is bunkum, no?
Posted by: Soothsayer, very senile at December 07, 2019 07:37 PM (Xd1wG)


Why should carbon-based food get all the airplay? There are another 91 naturally-occurring elements. It's time for inorganic compounds to get a look-in.

Start with rust. Yum.

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at December 07, 2019 08:12 PM (FXaFS)

129 Yeah the irony of the stand-down for Pearl after weeks of alerts is not widely known.


Counter-factual that I've never seen discussed: if the fleet had stayed here in San Diego, what would have Japan done when they launched their offensive to take the "resource zone" to the south [the main point of the war]?


No way the Kido Butai attempts to raid San Diego. The Hawaii operation was already an audacious thing conducted at the extreme range of practicable operations against a peer enemy with assets all over the intervening space.


My Krugman-First-Pass analysis: Japan does the rest of the operation, to include the Philippines, all the British targets. The politix and emotional impact of air raids on the Philippines is far less decisive and clear than what actually happened, FDR is put in an impossible position, and can only manage a major increase in defense spending/force expansion, or a declaration of war that limits our war aims. Very very different situation, much tougher. If Hitler keeps his mouth shut, it gets even worse.

Posted by: rhomboid at December 07, 2019 08:13 PM (El6T/)

130 116: Wait, I thought we all died from gun violence LAST year!
Posted by: Don Q



We did. Now we're deader.

Posted by: Puddleglum at December 07, 2019 08:13 PM (DhSOy)

131 you know who's really to blame for artificial genetically modified food?

gregor mendel.

Posted by: mjc at December 07, 2019 08:13 PM (Pg+x7)

132 It'll never get old.

Posted by: rickb223 at December 07, 2019 07:39 PM (ElK6Q)

hehehehe

Posted by: REDACTED at December 07, 2019 08:13 PM (rpxSz)

133 Didja see super genius Al Green's explanation of impeachment?

Rep. Al Green: Impeachment Needed "To Deal With Slavery"

-
I coulda sworn we dealt with slavery some time ago.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Tyrannosaur Wrangler at December 07, 2019 08:13 PM (+y/Ru)

134 Why should carbon-based food get all the airplay? There are another 91 naturally-occurring elements. It's time for inorganic compounds to get a look-in.

Start with rust. Yum.
Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at December 07, 2019 08:12 PM (FXaFS)


Carbon bad

Posted by: The Horta at December 07, 2019 08:13 PM (aS1PU)

135 I actually knew a few folks who contracted polio as young adults.

The iron lung used to scare the shit outta me as a ute.

Trust me, you want the vax.

Posted by: Hairyback Guy at December 07, 2019 08:13 PM (Z+IKu)

136 Coadaptation is also a thing that happens even without humans. There is a theory that some tree seeds can't germinate without the Dodo bird eating them and grinding off some of the husk, so the species is not being renewed for these last few hundred years.

Posted by: Oldcat at December 07, 2019 08:14 PM (eoQWY)

137 109 Hmm somehow got the wrong top half on my response there. Sorry vmom.
Posted by: Oldcat

perhaps Yamamoto was armed with tomato torpedoes

Posted by: vmom, anti-vahzist at December 07, 2019 08:14 PM (G546f)

138 OT: Clemson is just toying with Virginia. They are just so much better. Virginia may keep is close for a bit but I expect Clemson to just pull away.

Posted by: Puddleglum at December 07, 2019 08:14 PM (DhSOy)

139 The thing about organic, non-GMO, heart-healthy, etc, is that the company has to pay someone in order to use those descriptors on the label.

It's a racket.

Posted by: Emmie at December 07, 2019 08:15 PM (87gB3)

140 Start with rust. Yum.
Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at December 07, 2019 08:12 PM (FXaFS)

Maybe we could all get ourselves whole-body tattoos made from chlorophyll, and just lie around in the Sun and photosynthesize all day.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at December 07, 2019 08:15 PM (/sgva)

141 Just remembered, stopped at Wendy's coming home from the hospital and ordered lemonade, got MinuteMaid instead of the organic lemonade which was the other choice.

Posted by: Skip at December 07, 2019 08:15 PM (ZCEU2)

142 I would also venture a guess that most food related maladies are a result of poor hygiene in preparation. You get some nut who insists on raw foods, and is probably not too clean of body him/her self, and guess what, ptomaine. Folks who insist that canned food, or even cooked food will poison them, are eventually going to kill themselves with a bad batch of uncooked glop. You can only wash it so much.

Posted by: bill in arkansas at December 07, 2019 08:15 PM (C1Lsn)

143 135: And those who survived polio usually had some permanent damage, as did FDR.

Posted by: CN at December 07, 2019 08:15 PM (5wOoy)

144 Defense Secretary refuses to label Pensacola killing as terrorism. It's a "tragic incident." I guess that's one step up from "workplace violence." We're getting better at this.

Posted by: Dan Smoot's Apprentice at December 07, 2019 08:15 PM (H8QX8)

145 I was bullshitting engaging in witty repartee with my idiot about the
female judge in Kentucky who was banging everything in sight and would
reward or punish attorneys who appeared before her based upon whether
they succumbed to her carnal desires.



https://dailym.ai/2OZuVx5



They had some comments I thought I'd share. What do you hear when
you walk into her court? "All rise." She was acting pro boner. She
preferred a hung jury.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Tyrannosaur Wrangler at December 07, 2019 08:04 PM (+y/Ru)




The Katie Hill of judges

Posted by: TheQuietMan at December 07, 2019 08:17 PM (a4xU3)

146 Watching the Big Ten playoffs and saw most of the Buckeyes kneeled to say a prayer before the game. They do this at OSU home games but it's nice to see it on national tv.

Posted by: Moon howler at December 07, 2019 08:17 PM (hLiaa)

147 If vaccines were so safe, then why can't the companies be sued? It's not the virus, it's the other shit companies put in the solution.

Posted by: squirrelly dan at December 07, 2019 08:17 PM (8dCIx)

148 soylent green is people!

but it's 100% organic.

Posted by: mjc at December 07, 2019 08:17 PM (Pg+x7)

149 135: And those who survived polio usually had some permanent damage, as did FDR.
Posted by: CN at December 07, 2019 08:15 PM (5wOoy)


My wife had polio as a little child. She recovered 100% You would never guess she had it.

Posted by: DR.WTF at December 07, 2019 08:17 PM (aS1PU)

150
Has anyone ever did a blind taste test comparing organic foods to regular foods?

Posted by: Soothsayer, very senile at December 07, 2019 08:17 PM (Xd1wG)

151 Defense Secretary refuses to label Pensacola killing as terrorism. It's a "tragic incident." I guess that's one step up from "workplace violence." We're getting better at this.

-
Ahh. The ostrich strategy.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Tyrannosaur Wrangler at December 07, 2019 08:17 PM (+y/Ru)

152 I want my food to be planted, sprayed, watered, fertilized, harvested, processed, packaged, refrigerated, loaded and delivered to my local store by organic strangers rather than inorganic strangers.



So like , none of this happens where you can see it. So how do you trust the label?



"Because feelings", they explain. "Government", they add.


"Also reasons", they continue, nodding knowingly.

Posted by: mikeyG at December 07, 2019 08:18 PM (lnyJN)

153 135 Ex sister in law,two two years my senior had polio. I had Salk and Sabin as a kid. Jonas Salk should be a revered name worldwide.

Posted by: bill in arkansas at December 07, 2019 08:19 PM (C1Lsn)

154 Botulinum toxin is organic. So is saxitoxin, the toxin in puffer fish. Cobra venom? Toxic.

The "organic" thing is a monument to 1) the stupidity of most people, and 2) the parlous state of science education in America, 3) the efficacy of marketing, and 4) the venality of those pushing this crap.

And maybe: 5) the willingness of the Reds to agitate people on almost any basis as a way of "building a mass movement." Think that's going too far? Consider how easy it is to convince "organic" health food idiots, anti-vaxxers, etc. that "they" are poisoning you, and you have to become "active" to fight back. Kevin Trudeau was the patron saint of that kind of rubbish, a monument to items #3 and #4 above. Especially #4.

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at December 07, 2019 08:19 PM (FXaFS)

155 A & W restaurants are quacking about selling eggs from "vegan-fed chickens".


I had a brief vision of chickens pecking the eyes of vegans.

Posted by: Grump928(C) at December 07, 2019 08:19 PM (yQpMk)

156 155 A & W restaurants are quacking about selling eggs from "vegan-fed chickens".


I had a brief vision of chickens pecking the eyes of vegans.
Posted by: Grump928(C) at December 07, 2019 08:19 PM (yQpMk)

They grind up the vegans and add them to the feed.

Posted by: Insomniac at December 07, 2019 08:20 PM (NWiLs)

157 If vaccines were so safe, then why can't the companies be sued? It's not the virus, it's the other shit companies put in the solution.
Posted by: squirrelly dan



Technically speaking, if 95% are ok and 5% suffer from the vaccine, doesn't that make them defective and not the vaccine?

Posted by: rickb223 at December 07, 2019 08:20 PM (ElK6Q)

158 https://dailym.ai/2OZuVx5

She's got a great pair of +2s on her.

Posted by: squirrelly dan at December 07, 2019 08:20 PM (8dCIx)

159 I do wish I could buy unmolested chicken. It's tough to find any that hasn't been injected with a solution. This interferes with browning and affects taste and texture.

No, I did not make any attempt at phrasing.

Posted by: Emmie at December 07, 2019 08:20 PM (87gB3)

160 Petroleum is carbon-based isn't it? Formerly dead microorganisms?

Then I get to call fossil fuels "organic fuels".

Posted by: Hands at December 07, 2019 08:21 PM (786Ro)

161 "43 If the scientific community still held the respect of a conformist and trusting society, no one would have trouble with vaccinations. But they have squandered that trust, at best in the cause of stubbornness, at worst in the service of tyranny.

How could anyone be surprised at this being the result?

Posted by: trev006 at December 07, 2019 07:50 PM (6OzV/) "





This, exactly.

Posted by: sock_rat_eez, we are being gaslighted 24/365 at December 07, 2019 08:21 PM (JwHjN)

162 Admiral Kimmel sounds like he was a cuck

Posted by: vmom, anti-vahzist at December 07, 2019 08:21 PM (G546f)

163
you know who's really to blame for artificial genetically modified food?



gregor mendel.



Punnett squares are the devil's Tic Tac Toe.

Posted by: mikeyG at December 07, 2019 08:21 PM (lnyJN)

164 Every taste test Stevie Wonder takes is blind.

Posted by: klaftern at December 07, 2019 08:21 PM (RuIsu)

165 Has anyone ever did a blind taste test comparing organic foods to regular foods?[p/i]


I will say that vegetables straight out of my organic garden taste better but I think that's because it's way fresher rather than any organic properties.

Posted by: Grump928(C) at December 07, 2019 08:21 PM (yQpMk)

166 149: Lucky her, my neighbor has braces and canes. Very sad.

A dreadful example of pesticide exposure is France's Guadeloupe and Martinique. They have high prostate cancer rates and hematological issues. There is a rising incidence of these die to the long half life of chlordecone.

Posted by: CN at December 07, 2019 08:21 PM (5wOoy)

167 I don't get flu shots but my kids got every shot we could get. My father had 2 brothers that died , days of each other, of measles. My grandmother cried when she told me about it as an adult.

Posted by: Moon howler at December 07, 2019 08:22 PM (hLiaa)

168 "they grind up the vegans and add them to the feed..."

that was the plot twist in an "alfred hitchcock presents" the other night. the murderer gave the clueless police inspectors a box of eggs at the end.

Posted by: mjc at December 07, 2019 08:23 PM (Pg+x7)

169 159 Emmie, look for "Smart Chicken". I don't know if it's a brand or certification but it's injection free and the only reason I buy it is it's a money saver. More chicken, less water.

Posted by: bill in arkansas at December 07, 2019 08:23 PM (C1Lsn)

170 169 159 Emmie, look for "Smart Chicken". I don't know if it's a brand or certification but it's injection free and the only reason I buy it is it's a money saver. More chicken, less water.
Posted by: bill in arkansas at December 07, 2019 08:23 PM (C1Lsn)

If they're so smart, how come they're so dead?

Posted by: Insomniac at December 07, 2019 08:24 PM (NWiLs)

171 Then I get to call fossil fuels "organic fuels".
Posted by: Hands at December 07, 2019 08:21 PM (786Ro)


If fossil fuels are so bad for the earth, shouldn't we be taking it out of the ground rather than leaving it in?

Posted by: Emmie at December 07, 2019 08:24 PM (87gB3)

172 Emmie, look for "Smart Chicken". I don't know if it's a brand or certification but it's injection free and the only reason I buy it is it's a money saver. More chicken, less water.
Posted by: bill in arkansas at December 07, 2019 08:23 PM (C1Lsn)


If I buy Smart Chicken and drive home in a Smart car does that make me a genius?

Posted by: DR.WTF at December 07, 2019 08:24 PM (aS1PU)

173 170 Heh. Just had to do it.

Posted by: bill in arkansas at December 07, 2019 08:25 PM (C1Lsn)

174 Thanks, Bill! I will check local stores.

Posted by: Emmie at December 07, 2019 08:25 PM (87gB3)

175 If vaccines were so safe, then why can't the companies be sued? It's not the virus, it's the other shit companies put in the solution.
Posted by: squirrelly dan



Technically speaking, if 95% are ok and 5% suffer from the vaccine, doesn't that make them defective and not the vaccine?
Posted by: rickb223 at December 07, 2019 08:20 PM (ElK6Q)

First, it's kids who are disproportionately affected. Second, i don't know of any drug that would clear approval that caused brain damage and numerological damage to 5% of the kids taking it. We have gone from 3-4 vaccines to kids in the 80's to 30 (40?) or more to babies and little kids. It's crazy, and it's 100% about money and not health.

Posted by: squirrelly dan at December 07, 2019 08:26 PM (8dCIx)

176 like that French general who refused to believe reports that the Germans were rumbling through Ardennes

Posted by: vmom, anti-vahzist at December 07, 2019 08:26 PM (G546f)

177 Yeah the irony of the stand-down for Pearl after weeks of alerts is not widely known.


Counter-factual that I've never seen discussed: if the fleet had stayed here in San Diego, what would have Japan done when they launched their offensive to take the "resource zone" to the south [the main point of the war]?


No way the Kido Butai attempts to raid San Diego. The Hawaii operation was already an audacious thing conducted at the extreme range of practicable operations against a peer enemy with assets all over the intervening space.


My Krugman-First-Pass analysis: Japan does the rest of the operation, to include the Philippines, all the British targets. The politix and emotional impact of air raids on the Philippines is far less decisive and clear than what actually happened, FDR is put in an impossible position, and can only manage a major increase in defense spending/force expansion, or a declaration of war that limits our war aims. Very very different situation, much tougher. If Hitler keeps his mouth shut, it gets even worse.
Posted by: rhomboid at December 07, 2019 08:13 PM (El6T/)

The Pearl Harbor raid was something of a white elephant. Ironically, by sinking the old battleships which showed some peacetime flaws in shallow water, it kept the US from wasting time arguing about battleships as the main force versus carriers.

Having Kido available in the east might have helped things go a bit faster out there, but it was mainly logistics and transports that were braking the thrust to the DEI. I really doubt that Roosevelt would have had that much trouble getting into the war if there were a treacherous raid on the PI and Wake rather than just over Pearl. There was plenty of bad blood due to US sympathy for China. We were already far over the neutral line against U Boats in the Atlantic. With the press in his pocket, I think we go to war without much fuss.

What might have been interesting is if 3-4 carriers were detached to the Marshals to watch the Pacific Fleet and two fairly well matched forces fenced about in that area for the next year. Similar fights after and before Midway led to farily equivalent losses between the two sides.

But historically after Pearl, the Kido did little, raiding the Indian Ocean for a month and then getting wiped in the Midway misadventure.

Posted by: Oldcat at December 07, 2019 08:27 PM (eoQWY)

178 We have gone from 3-4 vaccines to kids in the 80's to 30 (40?) or more to babies and little kids.


Wut? I must be behind the times.

Posted by: Grump928(C) at December 07, 2019 08:27 PM (yQpMk)

179 I had a brief vision of chickens pecking the eyes of vegans.

-
I went to my doctor the other day and had occasion to use the facilities. In the restroom there was a poster explaining how to wash your hands in 11 easy steps. Step one was turn on the water and step eleven was turn off the water. I'm a little fuzzy on the others but I do recall you were supposed to interlace your fingers and wash the webbing between your thumb and index index finger.

Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Tyrannosaur Wrangler at December 07, 2019 08:27 PM (+y/Ru)

180 I found out that unlike something like a tetanus vaccine, which provides protection for 10 years, the flu shot only give short-term protection. So I skip it. I've had flu once in 1999.
Posted by: Emmie
----

True of most immunizations/vaccines. Those of us who received Smallpox vaccine *cough cough* years ago, are no longer immune. Probably the same with that Bubonic Plague shot I had a while back.

Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at December 07, 2019 08:27 PM (dzJ3R)

181 I will say that vegetables straight out of my organic garden taste better but I think that's because it's way fresher rather than any organic properties.
Posted by: Grump928


That's the key. Freshness. Ever see the Dole bananas when they put them out at the grocery store? Lime green.

Then they start ripening. Instead of being able to pull one off the tree when it's ready.

Posted by: rickb223 at December 07, 2019 08:28 PM (ElK6Q)

182 No such thing as smart chicken. Trust me.

Posted by: The Chicken at December 07, 2019 08:28 PM (EgshT)

183 Technically speaking, if 95% are ok and 5% suffer from the vaccine, doesn't that make them defective and not the vaccine?
Posted by: rickb223 at December 07, 2019 08:20 PM (ElK6Q)

Then every kid HAS to eat peanut butter. It doesn't matter; creamy or crunchy.

Posted by: Cheribebe at December 07, 2019 08:28 PM (a4qVe)

184 Vaccines like shots?

Posted by: Cosmic Charlie at December 07, 2019 08:28 PM (PUmDY)

185 I'm too young for the polio scare, but my sister had a friend who got it. I got measles when I was a kid. All I remember is being stuck in a dark room because of some fear of eye damage.

Posted by: Dan Smoot's Apprentice at December 07, 2019 08:29 PM (H8QX8)

186 Who would give their children a shot that they really don't need if the doctor's said there is a 5% chance your child will be brain damaged and or suffer life altering neurological conditions?

There is a reason why they can't be sued and information is censored about the dangers of the current vaccine contents, dosages, and any education about vaccines.

Posted by: squirrelly dan at December 07, 2019 08:29 PM (8dCIx)

187 We have gone from 3-4 vaccines to kids in the 80's to 30 (40?) or more to babies and little kids.

Wut? I must be behind the times.
Posted by: Grump928(C)

https://www.cdc.gov/
vaccines/schedules/hcp/imz/child-adolescent.html

Posted by: Tonypete at December 07, 2019 08:29 PM (Y4EXg)

188 Defense Secretary refuses to label Pensacola killing as terrorism. It's a "tragic incident." I guess that's one step up from "workplace violence." We're getting better at this.

-
Ahh. The ostrich strategy.
Posted by: Anonosaurus Wrecks, Tyrannosaur Wrangler at December 07, 2019 08:17 PM (+y/Ru)

You just need the automatic translator brain Soviet Civiians had. If the Government doesn't say it is terrorism, its terrorism.

Posted by: Oldcat at December 07, 2019 08:29 PM (eoQWY)

189 Yeah, I think if Japan had just attacked the Philippines, then seized Indonesia for oil, FDR wouldn't have been all in.

Posted by: vmom, anti-vahzist at December 07, 2019 08:30 PM (G546f)

190
Then every kid HAS to eat peanut butter. It doesn't matter; creamy or crunchy.
Posted by: Cheribebe at December 07, 2019 08:28 PM (a4qVe)
-----
Crunchy. Crunchy > Creamy.

Posted by: Weasel at December 07, 2019 08:30 PM (MVjcR)

191 189 Yeah, I think if Japan had just attacked the Philippines, then seized Indonesia for oil, FDR wouldn't have been all in.
Posted by: vmom, anti-vahzist at December 07, 2019 08:30 PM (G546f)

Bigger question, without the Shock of Pearl, would we have declared war on Germany?

Posted by: Don Q at December 07, 2019 08:31 PM (NgKpN)

192 Then I get to call fossil fuels "organic fuels".
Posted by: Hands at December 07, 2019 08:21 PM (786Ro)

If fossil fuels are so bad for the earth, shouldn't we be taking it out of the ground rather than leaving it in?
Posted by: Emmie at December 07, 2019 08:24 PM (87gB3)

I certainly learned about them in organic chemistry.

Posted by: Oldcat at December 07, 2019 08:31 PM (eoQWY)

193 166 should have read hepatalogical. Also ALS is linked to organochlorine pesticides. It pisses me off when Levin carries on about the joys of DDT.

Posted by: CN at December 07, 2019 08:31 PM (5wOoy)

194 anyw, thank goodness for Nimitz

Posted by: vmom, anti-vahzist at December 07, 2019 08:32 PM (G546f)

195 Creamy peanut butter apple slices were good stuff.

Posted by: Cosmic Charlie at December 07, 2019 08:32 PM (PUmDY)

196 I've been vaccinated so many times, I can't count. Go in the Corps, vaccinated. Go to Vietnam, same. Go to WESPAC, again. Return trip down south to Nam, more. With my luck, one of the new arrivals in our country will sneeze on me, and all those shots missed something.

Posted by: bill in arkansas at December 07, 2019 08:32 PM (C1Lsn)

197 Emmie, look for "Smart Chicken". I don't know if it's a brand or certification but it's injection free and the only reason I buy it is it's a money saver. More chicken, less water.
Posted by: bill in arkansas at December 07, 2019 08:23 PM (C1Lsn)

If they're so smart, how come they're so dead?
Posted by: Insomniac at December 07, 2019 08:24 PM (NWiLs)


Net neutrality.

Posted by: hogmartin at December 07, 2019 08:32 PM (t+qrx)

198 Bigger question, without the Shock of Pearl, would we have declared war on Germany?
Posted by: Don Q at December 07, 2019 08:31 PM (NgKpN)
------
We didn't. Germany declared war on us.

Posted by: Captain Obvious at December 07, 2019 08:32 PM (3Z6pZ)

199 " No such thing as smart chicken. Trust me"
Posted by: The Chicken

We are improving.

Posted by: sooper dooper genius chicken monkey hybrid at December 07, 2019 08:33 PM (Tnijr)

200 "All I remember is being stuck in a dark room because of some fear of eye damage.

Posted by: Dan Smoot's Apprentice at December 07, 2019 08:29 PM (H8QX "



Probably not a joke.
I had measles bad as a little kid ... 111 fever, bathtub full of ice water, when I recovered I was nearsighted as billy hell, still am.
Boiled my eyeballs in my head like fucking eggs.

Posted by: sock_rat_eez, we are being gaslighted 24/365 at December 07, 2019 08:33 PM (JwHjN)

201 Bill, I checked out the Smart Chicken. I have actually purchased it before. My store had some on sale because it was close to the expiration date.

Posted by: Emmie at December 07, 2019 08:33 PM (87gB3)

202 Another little nugget of information that doesn't exist but should; how do all these vaccines interact when several are given at once. Also, the preservatives; has there been any study on the TOTAL amount of preservatives that in in the vaccines. I'd like to know if the total quantity is safe. I worked in a drs office when Thimerosol, which contained mercury was used as a preservative. The news told everyone don't worry, it's a microscopic amount and not used anymore, but it was right there on the packaging of the vaccines that we were currently giving.

Posted by: Cheribebe at December 07, 2019 08:34 PM (a4qVe)

203 So I skip it. I've had flu once in 1999.
Posted by: Emmie

Damn straight, I've never had one, had it once probably around that year also.

Posted by: Skip at December 07, 2019 08:34 PM (ZCEU2)

204 Bigger question, without the Shock of Pearl, would we have declared war on Germany?


They declared war on us first I think. My favorite counterfactual has Hitler declaring war on the Japanese for doing a sneak attack on a fellow Aryan nation.

Posted by: Grump928(C) at December 07, 2019 08:34 PM (yQpMk)

205 I posted in another thread that I used to eat raw ground beef as a kid when my father or mother were making meatballs or meatloaf . I don't know if it's fear but I wouldn't do that today. Okay it's fear.

Posted by: Easy Andy at December 07, 2019 08:34 PM (2DOZq)

206 ...information is censored about the dangers of the current vaccine contents, dosages,

Posted by: squirrelly dan at December 07, 2019 08:29 PM (8dCIx)

---
unless, of course, you read the current package insert for the vaccine, which are available on line.

all that is right there, as required by law.

and the side effect rate is no where near 5%, unless you add several leading zeros to that number, and a decimal point.

wanna try again, this time with facts?

Posted by: redc1c4, ONT Rc Tech at December 07, 2019 08:35 PM (YOl0X)

207 On the other hand, I am very pro vaccine. Every disease for which we vaccinate, has a higher risk than the needle. The exception is probably the flu. I am not a fan as I know two friends who had guillain barre from these shots.

Posted by: CN at December 07, 2019 08:35 PM (5wOoy)

208 189 Yeah, I think if Japan had just attacked the Philippines, then seized Indonesia for oil, FDR wouldn't have been all in.
Posted by: vmom, anti-vahzist at December 07, 2019 08:30 PM (G546f)

Bigger question, without the Shock of Pearl, would we have declared war on Germany?
Posted by: Don Q at December 07, 2019 08:31 PM (NgKpN)

Germany declared war on us first, after we declared war on Japan. If in this scenario we managed to declare war on Japan, Germany would presumably do the same.

However, this path of alternate history misses one point. Japan *wanted* war with the US, before our 1943 Carriers and Battleship building programs came online. If FDR had hesitated, Japan would have declared war on us for sure, unless you come up with a reason for the Japanese Navy to reverse its ideas.

Posted by: Oldcat at December 07, 2019 08:35 PM (eoQWY)

209 I think my DIL has only ever served organic anything to my grandsons. However, everyone has had their vaccines. In fact, when the first one was born my son requested we get a booster on our whooping cough vaccines since that was going around and the little guy was too young to get vaccinated. As long as the kids are vaccinated, I don't care if the food is organic, but honestly I just think organic is no better than any other food.

Posted by: Mrs. Leggy at December 07, 2019 08:36 PM (Vf4Y7)

210 Posted by: sock_rat_eez, we are being gaslighted 24/365 at December 07, 2019 08:33 PM (JwHjN)

I had measles pretty bad as a kid too (I remember my teacher and my sister's teacher visiting coz we'd been out so long)
and I'm very nearsighted
never realized they might be connected

Posted by: vmom, anti-vahzist at December 07, 2019 08:36 PM (G546f)

211 Use to eat raw chocolate chip cookie dough, fear has stopped that

Posted by: Skip at December 07, 2019 08:36 PM (ZCEU2)

212 vmom, anti-vahzist

We were very lucky at Pearl Harbor. I've gamed out an unsurprised attack, with a sortie against the Japanese fleet, many times. It never works, even with the 3 USN CVs in support.

Many US ships are sunk in deep water, with very high casualties. The IJN looses a number of pilots, which would normally take them three years to train.

But most of the surface Pacific Fleet, and all those well trained sailors, are gone.

Posted by: NaCly Dog at December 07, 2019 08:36 PM (u82oZ)

213 Easy Andy, did they give it to you?

Posted by: Cosmic Charlie at December 07, 2019 08:36 PM (PUmDY)

214 BEEF HARDCHEESE

Posted by: weft cut-loop at December 07, 2019 08:36 PM (GPz65)

215 Posted by: Grump928(C) at December 07, 2019 08:34 PM (yQpMk

They declared as a result of Pearl Harbor and support of their ally right?

Posted by: Easy Andy at December 07, 2019 08:37 PM (2DOZq)

216 I had measles pretty bad as a kid too (I remember my teacher and my sister's teacher visiting coz we'd been out so long)
and I'm very nearsighted
never realized they might be connected
Posted by: vmom, anti-vahzist at December 07, 2019 08:36 PM (G546f)


I had measles and mumps back-to-back. I was out of school for about a month.

Posted by: DR.WTF at December 07, 2019 08:37 PM (aS1PU)

217 True of most immunizations/vaccines. Those of us who received Smallpox vaccine *cough cough* years ago, are no longer immune. Probably the same with that Bubonic Plague shot I had a while back.
Posted by: Mike Hammer, etc., etc. at December 07, 2019 08:27 PM (dzJ3R)


But that's what I mean. I'm sure my Smallpox vaccine lasted more than one year.

Posted by: Emmie at December 07, 2019 08:37 PM (87gB3)

218 On topic, I am suspicious of food and spices grown in China, and some leafy vegetables grown in Mexico.

Posted by: NaCly Dog at December 07, 2019 08:37 PM (u82oZ)

219 have some more facts, people.

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/concerns/thimerosal/index.html

Posted by: redc1c4, ONT Rc Tech at December 07, 2019 08:38 PM (YOl0X)

220 Easy Andy, did they give it to you?
Posted by: Cosmic Charlie at December 07, 2019 08:36 PM (PUmDY)

Yes. They are it too as they made the meal.

Posted by: Easy Andy at December 07, 2019 08:38 PM (2DOZq)

221 Skip, the eggs?

Posted by: Cosmic Charlie at December 07, 2019 08:38 PM (PUmDY)

222 They declared as a result of Pearl Harbor and support of their ally right?


Presumably. It seems like a dumb move, especially from someone who personally experienced the change in balance of the US entering the Great War.

Posted by: Grump928(C) at December 07, 2019 08:38 PM (yQpMk)

223 Bigger question, without the Shock of Pearl, would we have declared war on Germany?

Posted by: Don Q at December 07, 2019 08:31 PM (NgKpN)




You mean if Pearl Harbor hadn't been attacked would we have declared war on Germany? I believe that Churchill had a plan to paint a British sub as a U-Boat and sink an American vessel a la the Lusitania but FDR nixed that. I don't know if there wasn't the impetus of American being attacked if we would have. But they were both working on something to get us into the European war

Posted by: TheQuietMan at December 07, 2019 08:38 PM (a4xU3)

224 I still eat raw cookie dough and have never been sick from it.

Posted by: freaked at December 07, 2019 08:39 PM (Tnijr)

225 Have you heard of fluoride in the water, Mandrake?

Posted by: Weasel at December 07, 2019 08:39 PM (MVjcR)

226 I sure wish I had a cup of tea and a butter pie.

Posted by: Zombie Admiral Halsey at December 07, 2019 08:39 PM (EgshT)

227 googled - apparently high fevers in kids seem to be linked to myopia

Posted by: vmom, anti-vahzist at December 07, 2019 08:39 PM (G546f)

228 NaCly, I agree, I just don't think those foods are grown nor handled properly. I really like to know where meat comes from but that's getting harder to tell.

Posted by: Cheribebe at December 07, 2019 08:39 PM (a4qVe)

229 Easy, that is funny.

Posted by: Cosmic Charlie at December 07, 2019 08:39 PM (PUmDY)

230 POE

Posted by: Grump928(C) at December 07, 2019 08:39 PM (yQpMk)

231 Crunchy. Crunchy > Creamy.

Posted by: Weasel



Crunchy denotes a lack of pride in ones work. "Why isn't this smooth?' Ahhh, we quit halfway through."

Posted by: Some rat in the swamp at December 07, 2019 08:40 PM (LOq4H)

232 They declared as a result of Pearl Harbor and support of their ally right?


Presumably. It seems like a dumb move, especially from someone who personally experienced the change in balance of the US entering the Great War.
Posted by: Grump928(C) at December 07, 2019 08:38 PM (yQpMk)
------
'Dolf felt he had to honor the Axis pact by declaring war on the US, even though a number of the Nazi high command were all, "WTF, dood???"

Posted by: Captain Obvious at December 07, 2019 08:40 PM (3Z6pZ)

233 The butter wouldn't melt soo they put it in the pie.

Posted by: Cheribebe at December 07, 2019 08:40 PM (a4qVe)

234 230 POE
Posted by: Grump928(C) at December 07, 2019 08:39 PM (yQpMk)
-----
*fistbump*

Posted by: Weasel at December 07, 2019 08:40 PM (MVjcR)

235 A rant scholarly disquisition on the term "organic."

In the 19th century an argument raged in scientific circles whether compounds from living organisms (i.e., those of "organic" origin) differed fundamentally from ones made in the laboratory. This doctrine - "vitalism" - died when Friedrich Wöhler heated a sample of ammonium cyanate - synthesized in the laboratory without any connection to anything living - and produced urea, in some respects an quintessentially "organic" compound.

Eventually scientists applied the term "organic" to carbon-based compounds (somewhat arbitrarily excluding such "inorganic" carbon compounds as, e.g., hydrogen cyanide, acetylides, etc.) without reference to whether they were isolated from living beings or not.

With advances in synthetic chemistry we can make any compound that occurs in nature, and the compound so synthesized is indistinguishable in every respect from that isolated from a living source. (The only exception being occasionally in isotopic composition, since metabolic pathways sometimes reflect the isotopic composition of whatever the damned animal/plant used as a precursor, and/or in some cases reflecting the operation of the kinetic isotope effect. But that's a trivial difference for the vast majority of purposes. A case in point: carbon-13, a naturally-occurring isotope which is about 1% abundant ... everywhere. Also, although few people know this, the average observed atomic weight of many elements differs, sometimes substantially, based on where the element was sourced. That's why some atomic weights are reported to much higher precision than others, whose atomic weights represent the mole fraction-weighted average of all the samples of the crap found all over the world.)

/rant

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at December 07, 2019 08:40 PM (FXaFS)

236 Easy Andy

Hitler had the wrong idea of America, and did not run his decision to declare war on the US by any of his staff. Knowledgeable Germans were appalled at that snap decision, and rightly so.

We won the war against Germany, by keeping the USSR in the fight, and with our production, aircraft, and manpower.

Posted by: NaCly Dog at December 07, 2019 08:40 PM (u82oZ)

237 218 On topic, I am suspicious of food and spices grown in China, and some leafy vegetables grown in Mexico.
Posted by: NaCly Dog at December 07, 2019 08:37 PM (u82oZ)

You should be. Chinese soil used for export agriculture is... not good, from my experience in food.

For example, at a QC job at a plant that made jellies and jams, we sourced some Chinese Strawberries. They were huge berries, but they were pale, almost white with very little to no flavor. I think we ended up mixing them at a rate of 2 to one with California berries.

The sad thing is, from what I have heard the export stuff is usually much higher quality (and gets QC tested better) than what is used for domestic consumption.

Posted by: Aetius451AD at December 07, 2019 08:41 PM (ycWCI)

238 friggin peanut butter has soybean oil in it these days?

what's wrong with just relying on the natural peanut oil in the damn nuts?

Posted by: redc1c4, ONT Rc Tech at December 07, 2019 08:41 PM (YOl0X)

239 221 yes

Posted by: Skip at December 07, 2019 08:41 PM (ZCEU2)

240
They declared as a result of Pearl Harbor and support of their ally right?

Posted by: Easy Andy at December 07, 2019 08:37 PM (2DOZq)


I believe that Hitler also hoped that if he declared war on America that Japan would return the favor and declare war on Russia and attack the Russians. But the Japs were having none of it. In fact once the Russians through their spy network learned that the Japs were planning to attack America and not them released those divisions west for their winter counter offensive in 1941

Posted by: TheQuietMan at December 07, 2019 08:42 PM (a4xU3)

241 Posted by: Aetius451AD


Easy to find em in the dark.

Posted by: Some rat in the swamp at December 07, 2019 08:42 PM (LOq4H)

242 Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at December 07, 2019 08:40 PM (FXaFS)
------
Shorter: molecules are molecules, your body doesn't care how they got that way.

Posted by: Captain Obvious at December 07, 2019 08:42 PM (3Z6pZ)

243 You can get raw peanut butter, of course my wife gets it, I just get Skippy

Posted by: Skip at December 07, 2019 08:42 PM (ZCEU2)

244 228 NaCly, I agree, I just don't think those foods are grown nor handled properly. I really like to know where meat comes from but that's getting harder to tell.
Posted by: Cheribebe at December 07, 2019 08:39 PM (a4qVe)


From Portlandia, on ordering chicken: "What was the chicken's name? Did he have a good life?"

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at December 07, 2019 08:42 PM (FXaFS)

245 Ya'all ask Duncanthrax for his recipe for pecan butter and you will swear off peanut butter forever.

Posted by: Ben Had at December 07, 2019 08:43 PM (k8pI4)

246 Seriously, rec1c4 I would be nice to ha e info that comes from somewhere other than the government that says I HAVE to have ALL these vaccines.

Posted by: Cheribebe at December 07, 2019 08:43 PM (a4qVe)

247 Damn straight, I've never had one, had it once probably around that year also.
Posted by: Skip at December 07, 2019 08:34 PM (ZCEU2)


I remember it because my husband's band was playing a Y2K New Year party in California and we had arranged to drive the equipment truck. Both of us came down with flu right before the trip. Bleagh!

We were given Relenza which helped a surprising amount.

Posted by: Emmie at December 07, 2019 08:43 PM (87gB3)

248 All chickens are named Chuck.

Posted by: Grump928(C) at December 07, 2019 08:43 PM (yQpMk)

249 Shorter: molecules are molecules, your body doesn't care how they got that way.
Posted by: Captain Obvious at December 07, 2019 08:42 PM (3Z6pZ)


True dat, my brother, but I thought I should adduce more to the comment than just a flat assertion.

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at December 07, 2019 08:43 PM (FXaFS)

250 From Portlandia, on ordering chicken: "What was the chicken's name? Did he have a good life?"
Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at December 07, 2019 08:42 PM (FXaFS)
-----
That was a hilarious sketch.

Posted by: Captain Obvious at December 07, 2019 08:43 PM (3Z6pZ)

251 243 You can get raw peanut butter, of course my wife gets it, I just get Skippy
Posted by: Skip at December 07, 2019 08:42 PM (ZCEU2)

Peanut butter has not been agreeing with me lately, but JIF.

Posted by: Aetius451AD at December 07, 2019 08:43 PM (ycWCI)

252 Not so sure [meaning I'm not sure] that FDR would have had an easy path to a war declaration without the Pearl shokku. "Remember Clark Field" just doesn't have the same ring to it.


Well Grump we were viewed as a mongrel nation, dominated by Joooos, by the Austrian paper-hanger, not Aryan. And Don the Axis pact might not have covered attacks *by* members on other powers - and Hitler was far more interested in Japan declaring war on the Soviets, if he had to choose [losing the Battle of Moscow hurt that cause, bigly].


There was another twist I hadn't included, if Japan had actually played it smart, and refrained from attacking Wake or the PI, but instead warned us not to interfere with their conquests in the south, fortified the Solomons, etc. Then FDR would face quite the challenge, I think.

Posted by: rhomboid at December 07, 2019 08:44 PM (El6T/)

253 Then every kid HAS to eat peanut butter. It doesn't matter; creamy or crunchy.
Posted by: Cheribebe


Being born in 62 and grade school in the 70's, we all did. There was no bullshit about Johnny can't bring a pb&j to school because little Jeremy MIGHT choke out because peanuts.

Posted by: rickb223 at December 07, 2019 08:44 PM (ElK6Q)

254 I don't trust any food from China

Posted by: Skip at December 07, 2019 08:44 PM (ZCEU2)

255 Deplorable Jay Guevara

Bravo! Excellent rant. ICP-MS and GC-MS has changed our view of a homogenous world.

Posted by: NaCly Dog at December 07, 2019 08:44 PM (u82oZ)

256 However, this path of alternate history misses one point. Japan *wanted* war with the US, before our 1943 Carriers and Battleship building programs came online. If FDR had hesitated, Japan would have declared war on us for sure, unless you come up with a reason for the Japanese Navy to reverse its ideas.

Posted by: Oldcat at December 07, 2019 08:35 PM (eoQWY)

True, but I don't think FDR could have gotten away with the TOTAL WAR that he was able to impose on the Citizens, without Pearl.

Pearl was a shock, that got the whole country united. Without it Bond drives, or rationing? Probably would have been much more of a problem to impose.

Posted by: Don Q at December 07, 2019 08:45 PM (NgKpN)

257 Bam. And margins blown.

Posted by: rickb223 at December 07, 2019 08:45 PM (ElK6Q)

258 If Japan hadn't attack Pearl Harbor they still would have still attacked the Philippines.

Posted by: Easy Andy at December 07, 2019 08:45 PM (2DOZq)

259 Skip, they sell cookie dough now and they know people don't cook it.

Posted by: Cosmic Charlie at December 07, 2019 08:45 PM (PUmDY)

260 vmom, anti-vahzist

We were very lucky at Pearl Harbor. I've gamed out an unsurprised attack, with a sortie against the Japanese fleet, many times. It never works, even with the 3 USN CVs in support.

Many US ships are sunk in deep water, with very high casualties. The IJN looses a number of pilots, which would normally take them three years to train.

But most of the surface Pacific Fleet, and all those well trained sailors, are gone.
Posted by: NaCly Dog at December 07, 2019 08:36 PM (u82oZ)

https://www.amazon.com/Attack-Pearl-Harbor-Strategy-Deceptions/dp/1612001971

There's a book about PH I recently read that kiboshes that notion. What led to a lot of sinkings was the fact that all the watertight doors were wide open for maintenance on Dec7. California sank because its torpedo defense blister was open for cleaning and jammed open by hoses. If at full alert, a number of the ships that sank would not have.

Arizona, of course, if hit the same way would have sank like she did. But level bombing against moving ships was found to be extremely ineffective. Look at the Battle of Midway for an example of that.

Another interesting twist is that the loss of the ships at Pearl left many thousands of trained sailors from the damaged and sunk ships free to be deployed elsewhere on the other ships being completed or put to wartime levels.

Posted by: Oldcat at December 07, 2019 08:46 PM (eoQWY)

261 Well Grump we were viewed as a mongrel nation, dominated by Joooos, by the Austrian paper-hanger, not Aryan.


I don't presume to know that Dolf would have believed it but, had he said it, would have FDR been able to put us in a two-front war while they were still pulling bodies from the wreckage at Pearl?

Posted by: Grump928(C) at December 07, 2019 08:46 PM (yQpMk)

262 218 On topic, I am suspicious of food and spices grown in China, and some leafy vegetables grown in Mexico.
Posted by: NaCly Dog at December 07, 2019 08:37 PM (u82oZ)


I think that that's rational. God knows what procedures they use in cultivation and (ahem) especially in fertilization. It's like drinking the water in those places, IMO.

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at December 07, 2019 08:46 PM (FXaFS)

263 Pearl Harbor was like 9 / 11, except we wrapped that shit up in less than 5 years.

Posted by: freaked at December 07, 2019 08:46 PM (Tnijr)

264 Give me ALL the vaccines, except the ones I've already got natural immunity for. From being sick. Like the giant thoracic saw blades of adult post-chicken-pox aka SHINGLES, for example.

I often prefer organic veg and dairy, I usually think that it tastes better. But give me ALL THE MEAT too, and the FAT. Yum. Keep the bread. That stuff is poison.

But I'll tell you, the neighborhood vegans look like road kill, or maybe the streets of San Francisco. Shoe leather. Thank g-d they don't push it on their children.

I'm. Can I just say BACON. BACONBACONBACON. There.

Posted by: Oh look! Squirrel! Let's EAT it! at December 07, 2019 08:47 PM (64PZ4)

265 thimerosal

That's what I have to watch out for in vaccines. I'm terribly allergic. When I was tested for allergies, the test site itched miserably for months.

Posted by: Emmie at December 07, 2019 08:47 PM (87gB3)

266 Inductive Coupled Plasma Mass Spectroscopy (Inductively? Been a while since C317)

I do love this place.

Posted by: Aetius451AD at December 07, 2019 08:47 PM (ycWCI)

267 Well, FDR set the wheels of war in motion with his sanctions on oil. The scrap metal was not the big deal. Oil was. We were a big oil exporter back then.

The knowledgeable ones in the Japanese Government knew they would lose a war with the US. They just did not know how badly they would lose.

Posted by: NaCly Dog at December 07, 2019 08:48 PM (u82oZ)

268 True, but I don't think FDR could have gotten away with the TOTAL WAR that he was able to impose on the Citizens, without Pearl.

Pearl was a shock, that got the whole country united. Without it Bond drives, or rationing? Probably would have been much more of a problem to impose.
Posted by: Don Q at December 07, 2019 08:45 PM (NgKpN)

Wilson did it well enough in WWI. Arsenal of Democracy, Millions of land troops, and so on.

Hawaii was just a Territory then, just like the Philippines. We had owned both for just a few years.

Posted by: Oldcat at December 07, 2019 08:48 PM (eoQWY)

269 Bambi is all natural yet many react in horror that I would dare shoot and eat venison. I consider a large portion of the organic food market as a scam. I honestly don't waste any cerebral effort on either subject.

Posted by: Sock Monkey...holly jolly horde member at December 07, 2019 08:48 PM (QtGXX)

270 Well, FDR set the wheels of war in motion with his sanctions on oil. The scrap metal was not the big deal. Oil was. We were a big oil exporter back then.

The knowledgeable ones in the Japanese Government knew they would lose a war with the US. They just did not know how badly they would lose.
Posted by: NaCly Dog at December 07, 2019 08:48 PM (u82oZ)

They were counting on a compromise peace. Somehow they convinced themselves that putting our fleet on the bottom in a treacherous attack would be no bar to that. Not the best analysis.

Posted by: Oldcat at December 07, 2019 08:49 PM (eoQWY)

271 Almost anything you buy in the grocery store is a crap shoot. I think alot of what we buy and ingest is probably tainted in some way. Most of the time our bodies can fight it off. It does make me wonder and I have zero data on this but sure seems like a lot of people I know have gotten cancer. Is it from the food? Young lady I know just got diagnosed with breast cancer. She's only in her mid 30's, new mom. Supposed to go on the cruise with us. Now her life is on hold.

Posted by: Jewells45 at December 07, 2019 08:49 PM (dUJdY)

272 Battery status = 7%. Better cash in my chips, See y'all tomorrow, 'night!

Posted by: Weasel at December 07, 2019 08:50 PM (MVjcR)

273 Night Weasel.

Posted by: Aetius451AD at December 07, 2019 08:50 PM (ycWCI)

274 Whatever happened to that suspected link between interrupted pregnancies and breast cancer?

Posted by: Grump928(C) at December 07, 2019 08:51 PM (yQpMk)

275 Well Grump we were viewed as a mongrel nation, dominated by Joooos, by the Austrian paper-hanger, not Aryan. And Don the Axis pact might not have covered attacks *by* members on other powers - and Hitler was far more interested in Japan declaring war on the Soviets, if he had to choose [losing the Battle of Moscow hurt that cause, bigly].


There was another twist I hadn't included, if Japan had actually played it smart, and refrained from attacking Wake or the PI, but instead warned us not to interfere with their conquests in the south, fortified the Solomons, etc. Then FDR would face quite the challenge, I think.
Posted by: rhomboid at December 07, 2019 08:44 PM (El6T/)

Now *that* might have had a chance. Nobody in the US Army and Navy was keen on fighting to save the British Empire.

Posted by: Oldcat at December 07, 2019 08:52 PM (eoQWY)

276 One of my Dad's high school buddies is still aboard USS Arizona.

He was in line at the Navy recruiting office when they opened on December 8. Five minutes after they said, "Take off your glasses and read the chart", he was back on the street.

In 1943, the Army drafted him and put him on a boat. And his glasses got just as wet as they would have in the Navy.

And with that, I'm off to eat delicious homemade chili and watch "Tora! Tora! Tora!".

Posted by: Captain Obvious at December 07, 2019 08:52 PM (3Z6pZ)

277 Posted by: NaCly Dog at December 07, 2019 08:36 PM (u82oZ)

are you saying we would have been worse off if we hadn't been caught by surprise?
I'm confused

Posted by: vmom, anti-vahzist at December 07, 2019 08:52 PM (G546f)

278 274 Whatever happened to that suspected link between interrupted pregnancies and breast cancer?
Posted by: Grump928(C) at December 07, 2019 08:51 PM (yQpMk)

I am betting we will never hear about it because no one would fund such research.

Posted by: Aetius451AD at December 07, 2019 08:52 PM (ycWCI)

279

I'd hoped not to see pro or anti-vax arguments at AoSHQ.

Is there no common sense left? Every effective medication has a long list of side effects and contra-indications. I've had flu and pneumonia shots that made me sick.

Why do people argue that vaccinations are without a down side? Why should the most vulnerable among us (babies) be used for beta testing?

It's like people have been injected with Tardisil.

Posted by: Frankly at December 07, 2019 08:52 PM (XQzbW)

280 274 Whatever happened to that suspected link between interrupted pregnancies and breast cancer?
Posted by: Grump928(C) at December 07, 2019 08:51 PM (yQpMk)


As far as I know, abortion is the #1 risk factor for breast cancer. But admitting it is politically inconvenient, so they keep it quiet.

Posted by: Emmie at December 07, 2019 08:53 PM (87gB3)

281 Anti GMO stopping golden rice may be responsible for more deaths than modern anti-vaxxers. Although both are insane.

Posted by: Karen at December 07, 2019 08:53 PM (GAV5W)

282 Posted by: Frankly at December 07, 2019 08:52 PM (XQzbW

Nobody has argued that vaccines are without the potential for side effects.

Posted by: Easy Andy at December 07, 2019 08:54 PM (2DOZq)

283 Oldcat

I read the book Attack on Pearl Harbor
Strategy, Combat, Myths, Deceptions

By Alan D. Zimm very closely.

It is well reasoned.

Except, he has a mental block on the status of the watertight bulkhead stuffing tubes. He says an attack at sea would lead to minimal losses. But USN damage control training and performance, and the material condition of those stuffing tubes, would make his argument false.

He did not go through the zone inspection results and reports from SupShip on repairs.

We got better, under fire, in those two critical areas as the war wore on.

Posted by: NaCly Dog at December 07, 2019 08:54 PM (u82oZ)

284 218 On topic, I am suspicious of food and spices grown in China
Posted by: NaCly Dog at December 07, 2019 08:37 PM (u82oZ)


I know multiple Chinese people who share your prejudice.

Posted by: Splunge at December 07, 2019 08:54 PM (dOV9E)

285 Leaded Fuel is organic.


Unleaded is GMO.


#bringbackregulargas

Posted by: mikeyG at December 07, 2019 08:55 PM (S4/r5)

286 QuietMan is correct about that key assessment regarding Japan's plans not to attack Russia.


Oldcat, not sure Japanese navy/Yamamoto wanted a war - they just wanted to give themselves breathing room/time, and hopefully "shock" us into making a deal, by gutting the Pacific Fleet at the outset. The shipbuilding program would not have affected their conquests, and there'd have been time for consolidation. Yamamoto saying he could "run wild" for 6 months, but no promises after that, wasn't premised specifically on our program timing. I think it was just general caution and respect for our resource superiority.


And yes there was de facto war with German U-boats already, losses on both sides. The most enthusiastic supporter of the war declaration was Donitz, who'd been begging for one for some time. The rest weren't all that stoked.


Posted by: rhomboid at December 07, 2019 08:56 PM (El6T/)

287
I believe that Hitler also hoped that if he declared war on America that Japan would return the favor and declare war on Russia and attack the Russians. But the Japs were having none of it. In fact once the Russians through their spy network learned that the Japs were planning to attack America and not them released those divisions west for their winter counter offensive in 1941
Posted by: TheQuietMan at December 07, 2019 08:42 PM (a4xU3)

The Russians had kicked the shit out of the Japanese in Manchuria and Nomonhan in 1939, by Zhukov no less. You would have to be extremely foolish to count on Japan being a significant distraction.

The main reason Hitler declared war is that he WAS at war with the US Navy in the Atlantic already. His naval commanders were keen to get a crack at our undefended shipping in exchange. And they did a hell of a good job for a good part of 1942 sinking our ships. But we built new ones faster and eventually set up the convoys to end that adventure.

Posted by: Oldcat at December 07, 2019 08:56 PM (eoQWY)

288 Although I don't believe there is any difference between organic and non-organic food, I prefer that my meat and vegetables be raised domestically or in other first world countries. My experience with Chinese manufacturing, especially the lack of quality control and the outright dishonesty, makes me especially leery of Chinese food safety protocols.

Posted by: Buck Throckmorton at December 07, 2019 08:56 PM (d9Cw3)

289 Well Grump we were viewed as a mongrel nation, dominated by Joooos, by the Austrian paper-hanger, not Aryan.

Yes and no. Mein Kampf is actually quite laudatory about the U.S. as showing what an "Aryan" nation can do.

"In North America, where the population is
prevalently Teutonic ...

... But in North America the Teutonic element, which has kept its racial stock pure and did not mix it with any other racial stock, has come to dominate the American Continent and will remain master of it as long as that element does not fall a victim to the habit of adulterating its blood."

But you're right, in other contexts, the Austrian paper-hanger was dismissive as a result of the racial mixing in the U.S.

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at December 07, 2019 08:56 PM (FXaFS)

290 Eating organic food is important for your health, because it contains poop, which is organic. You poop, don't you? Then you should eat poop.

Posted by: Splunge at December 07, 2019 08:57 PM (dOV9E)

291 the only time i'd buy organic produce is if the regular section didn't have what i need.

throckmorton nailed it...organic is a designer label.

Posted by: trapper's girl at December 07, 2019 08:57 PM (gYJGA)

292 There are a couple of 'natural' products I wouldn't mind trying, particularly if they were free. In other words, if someone else bought and prepped them.

Free range chicken, and wild turkey. Really, it's just a curiosity thingy about the taste differences if any. Besides, I dislike commercial turkey.

And I don't want to spend $20 for a fuckin' chicken to find out.

Posted by: GnuBreed at December 07, 2019 08:57 PM (Z4rgH)

293 I like organic food. Organic deer born organically, fed organically, harvested organically, processed organically, and eaten organically.

Posted by: Eromero at December 07, 2019 08:57 PM (UUkQp)

294 Now *that* might have had a chance. Nobody in the US Army and Navy was keen on fighting to save the British Empire.

Posted by: Oldcat


My uncle said, "If we were between the japs and the limeys, not sure who I would have fired on first." Not sure the reasons, but he REALLY disliked the British. P.S. he was on the Astoria, claimed they accidentally sank the Vincennes.

Posted by: Some rat in the swamp at December 07, 2019 08:58 PM (LOq4H)

295 The knowledgeable ones in the Japanese Government knew they would lose a war with the US. They just did not know how badly they would lose.
Posted by: NaCly Dog at December 07, 2019 08:48 PM (u82oZ)

The knowledgeable ones in the Democrat Party knew they would lose a war with the Trump. They just did not know how badly they would lose.

Posted by: Tom Servo at December 07, 2019 08:58 PM (V2Yro)

296 288 Although I don't believe there is any difference between organic and non-organic food
Posted by: Buck Throckmorton at December 07, 2019 08:56 PM (d9Cw3)


There must be, because the non-organic celery around here tastes like celery, and the thin, medium-dark green organic celery tastes like someone tried to put kale in it. You can't make it other than bitter, no matter how much peanut butter you cram in its thin trench.

Posted by: Splunge at December 07, 2019 08:59 PM (dOV9E)

297 Another interesting twist is that the loss of the ships at Pearl left many thousands of trained sailors from the damaged and sunk ships free to be deployed elsewhere on the other ships being completed or put to wartime levels.
Posted by: Oldcat at December 07, 2019 08:46 PM


It also sidelined the black shoes, and led to the rise of the brown shoes.

Posted by: Duncanthrax The Austere at December 07, 2019 08:59 PM (DMUuz)

298 Yes and no. Mein Kampf is actually quite laudatory about the U.S. as showing what an "Aryan" nation can do.

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at December 07, 2019 08:56 PM (FXaFS)

IIRC, Germans were the largest group of immigrants to the USA since founded at that time and continued to be up until relatively recently.

Posted by: Easy Andy at December 07, 2019 08:59 PM (2DOZq)

299 Uptick in autism spectrum disorder has everything to with whether or not fried chicken was ever caged.


And nothing to do with kids being abandoned by selfish parents to raise themselves like keyboard zombies, killing their imaginations and absorbing the worst of humanity from a screen.


"Cage-free." It'll DEFINITELY fix that.

Posted by: mikeyG at December 07, 2019 08:59 PM (S4/r5)

300 vmom, anti-vahzist

Yes. The US Pac Fleet was primed to sortie from harbor if an attack was predicted. They were well trained in BB battle-line formations and tactics. That is normally sound tactics.

However, the intel on the excellent IJN torpedos, aircraft and strike tactics was not well disseminated from the intel weanies.

The US Pac fleet would have been crippled or destroyed on the high seas, leading to much worse results than being caught in harbor.

Our AA defenses and formations were inadequate at that time to fight off the best IJN aviators off of 6 IJN CVs.

Posted by: NaCly Dog at December 07, 2019 09:00 PM (u82oZ)

301 Tom Servo

Tip of the hat to you, good sir.

Posted by: NaCly Dog at December 07, 2019 09:01 PM (u82oZ)

302 Night Weasel would be a good name for a band. Or a plane.

Posted by: freaked at December 07, 2019 09:01 PM (Tnijr)

303 Non-organic = Regular food

Organic = Marketing

Posted by: Diogenes at December 07, 2019 09:01 PM (axyOa)

304 Why do people argue that vaccinations are without a down side? Why should the most vulnerable among us (babies) be used for beta testing?

It's like people have been injected with Tardisil.

Posted by: Frankly



Go back and read the joke at #8.

Hint. It's not really a joke.

Posted by: rickb223 at December 07, 2019 09:02 PM (ElK6Q)

305 292 There are a couple of 'natural' products I wouldn't mind trying, particularly if they were free. In other words, if someone else bought and prepped them.

Free range chicken, and wild turkey. Really, it's just a curiosity thingy about the taste differences if any. Besides, I dislike commercial turkey.
Posted by: GnuBreed at December 07, 2019 08:57 PM (Z4rgH)


Free range is a loaded term, co-opted by commercial interests to obscure the essentials. The best chicken is recently-slaughtered (it makes a huge difference), and of a breed selected for flavor, not fast-as-possible growth.

Haven't had wild turkey, but I'd expect it to be gamey, a bit tough, and hard to cook properly because of the lack of fat.

Posted by: Splunge at December 07, 2019 09:02 PM (dOV9E)

306 Night Weasel would be a good name for a band. Or a plane.
Posted by: freaked at December 07, 2019 09:01 PM (Tnijr)


Aren't possums night weasels?

Posted by: DR.WTF at December 07, 2019 09:02 PM (aS1PU)

307 302 Night Weasel would be a good name for a band. Or a plane.
Posted by: freaked at December 07, 2019 09:01 PM (Tnijr)

Fightin' Night Weasels over Bataan!

Posted by: Aetius451AD at December 07, 2019 09:02 PM (ycWCI)

308 Oooh, NaCly Dawg beat me to it.


Highly highly recommend the book he mentioned:


Attack on Pearl Harbor: Strategy, Combat, Myths, Deceptions, by Alan D. Zimm


Just read it, if you're a Pearl Harbor buff. I think the "myths" part is the most valuable.


Though the most amusing part to me was how Fuchida actually fucked up the signalling for the first wave, pretty funny.


Also very interesting: how Genda and Fuchida basically did *not* give the command the attack plan they had requested, inserting their own preferences instead.


And didn't know the dud rate for Japanese bombs was so high [the armor-piercing ones, just modified naval artillery rounds].

Posted by: rhomboid at December 07, 2019 09:02 PM (El6T/)

309
Oldcat, not sure Japanese navy/Yamamoto wanted a war - they just wanted to give themselves breathing room/time, and hopefully "shock" us into making a deal, by gutting the Pacific Fleet at the outset. The shipbuilding program would not have affected their conquests, and there'd have been time for consolidation. Yamamoto saying he could "run wild" for 6 months, but no promises after that, wasn't premised specifically on our program timing. I think it was just general caution and respect for our resource superiority.


And yes there was de facto war with German U-boats already, losses on both sides. The most enthusiastic supporter of the war declaration was Donitz, who'd been begging for one for some time. The rest weren't all that stoked.


Posted by: rhomboid at December 07, 2019 08:56 PM (El6T/)

Planning a surprise attack on our base is a novel way of avoiding a war, but they do say Yamamoto was a genius.

According to prewar thinking, once we had enough ships we could just sail to Tokyo and dictate terms, unless we could get bogged down in island campaigns. Once we developed the island hopping strategy to bypass bases we didn't care about, the original Japanese strategy was defunct.

The Japanese idea was that there was to be one big battle on their turf. The outward bases were to attrit the USN to parity or less with air, and small ships like destroyers with the excellent torpedo.

In the real war, by the time the war got into Japanese 'home waters' like the Marianas, the fleet had been neutralized almost entirely. Most of the carrier losses were on the fringes, Midway, and the Solomons.

As they say, no battle plan survives contact.

Posted by: Oldcat at December 07, 2019 09:03 PM (eoQWY)

310 Organic food has killed more people than Fukushima.

Posted by: sniffybigtoe at December 07, 2019 09:03 PM (+0AKE)

311 >>>A & W

the good old days was having my pop get an extra thing of root beer to bring home.

Posted by: trapper's girl at December 07, 2019 09:04 PM (gYJGA)

312 freaked @ 302- Or a 'stimulation aid'.

Posted by: Eromero at December 07, 2019 09:04 PM (UUkQp)

313

Nobody has argued that vaccines are without the potential for side effects.
Posted by: Easy Andy at December 07, 2019 08:54

You're wrong Andy. Many have argued that anti-vaccine is anti-science.

Posted by: Frankly at December 07, 2019 09:05 PM (XQzbW)

314 Attack on Pearl Harbor: Strategy, Combat, Myths, Deceptions, by Alan D. Zimm


Just read it, if you're a Pearl Harbor buff. I think the "myths" part is the most valuable.


Posted by: rhomboid at December 07, 2019 09:02 PM (El6T/)

It is a buck fifty for Kindle. And if you don't have a device, there's a free app for PC, tablets, phones.

I recommend it too, short, in depth but not inaccessible to the layman in my opinion.

Posted by: Oldcat at December 07, 2019 09:05 PM (eoQWY)

315 Night Otters

Posted by: sniffybigtoe at December 07, 2019 09:05 PM (+0AKE)

316 the Talking Biotech Podcast has an interview with Michelle Payne, who has a book out called Food Bullying.

She identifies the trend towards organic food as not just something we eat, but as the basis of a
much deeper connection to social status and group identity.

http://www.talkingbiotechpodcast.com/212-food-bullying/

Posted by: Kindltot at December 07, 2019 09:05 PM (1glZx)

317 Haven't had wild turkey, but I'd expect it to be gamey, a bit tough, and hard to cook properly because of the lack of fat.
Posted by: Splunge


First time I ate wild turkey, it looked like ham. The whole turkey is technically "dark" meat. They use all their muscles. Especially the breast muscles because they fly.

Posted by: rickb223 at December 07, 2019 09:06 PM (ElK6Q)

318 On topic, I am suspicious of food and spices grown in China

Five times as many people as us, in a similar land area, and they've got spare food to sell us?

Pretty sure I know what they use for fertilizer.

Posted by: t-bird at December 07, 2019 09:06 PM (1+J19)

319 Rickb, I'm the same, born in 64. Nobody was autistic, there weren't "nut free classrooms" we brought food for birthdays and holidays like cupcakes and candy. What changed to bring us to where we are now?

Posted by: Cheribebe at December 07, 2019 09:07 PM (a4qVe)

320

I ALWAYS steam my vaccines before injecting them into my clam...

Posted by: Gwen Paltry at December 07, 2019 09:07 PM (w3OLr)

321 the Talking Biotech Podcast has an interview with Michelle Payne, who has a book out called Food Bullying.

She identifies the trend towards organic food as not just something we eat, but as the basis of a
much deeper connection to social status and group identity.

http://www.talkingbiotechpodcast.com/212-food-bullying/
Posted by: Kindltot at December 07, 2019 09:05 PM (1glZx)


Everything has become a way for someone to signal their virtue without them actually having to have any virtue whatsoever.

Posted by: DR.WTF at December 07, 2019 09:08 PM (aS1PU)

322 I'm guessing the widespread use of irth control pills has something to do with breast cancer

Posted by: vmom, anti-vahzist at December 07, 2019 09:08 PM (G546f)

323 Many have argued that anti-vaccine is anti-science.

Posted by: Frankly


Yes, they are synonymous. Your crusade is against modern medical science and it's conclusions.


You are rebelling against what the medical establishment has decided. That part is somewhat understandable.


But you can't have it both ways.

Posted by: mikeyG at December 07, 2019 09:08 PM (S4/r5)

324 Oldcat

Victory Disease (their overextended fast expansion) set the Japanese up for a faster failure.

Posted by: NaCly Dog at December 07, 2019 09:09 PM (u82oZ)

325 You're wrong Andy. Many have argued that anti-vaccine is anti-science.
Posted by: Frankly at December 07, 2019 09:05 PM (XQzb

You can't refer to one post that says vaccines are 100% without any side effects. You and your strawman need to get your stories straight.

And it is anti-science.

Posted by: Easy Andy at December 07, 2019 09:10 PM (2DOZq)

326 At Pearl Harbor my dad was on the submarine Cachelot. He had the duty that day and had just arrived to the boat. Was one sip into his coffee when it started. Interestingly he kept that coffee cup, a basic white navy mess hall coffee cup for the rest of his life. On every cruise and every move.

Posted by: Diogenes at December 07, 2019 09:10 PM (axyOa)

327 319 Rickb, I'm the same, born in 64. Nobody was autistic, there weren't "nut free classrooms" we brought food for birthdays and holidays like cupcakes and candy. What changed to bring us to where we are now?
Posted by: Cheribebe at December 07, 2019 09:07 PM (a4qVe)


Plenty were autistic back then, but they were called "retarded" and, once they got too far outside the norm, went to different schools. The modern labels are, at least in part, a parent rebellion, as in "my child cannot be retarded!"

Posted by: Splunge at December 07, 2019 09:10 PM (dOV9E)

328 Uptick in autism spectrum disorder has everything to with whether or not fried chicken was ever caged.

And nothing to do with kids being abandoned by selfish parents to raise themselves like keyboard zombies, killing their imaginations and absorbing the worst of humanity from a screen.


I suspect that the uptick is the result of what I call the "ants on a picnic" effect.

You sit down, start to unpack your picnic basket, and you notice ... an ant. You look another way, and there are a couple more ants. Then you look around and jump up, "Jesus Christ, there are ants all OVER the effing place!"

Because now you're sensitized to the issue, and are looking for instances of it.

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at December 07, 2019 09:10 PM (FXaFS)

329
I'm guessing the widespread use of irth control pills has something to do with breast cancer

Posted by: vmom, anti-vahzist



I'm going with the longer the life span, the more crap one is going get.

Posted by: Some rat in the swamp at December 07, 2019 09:10 PM (LOq4H)

330 Rickb, I'm the same, born in 64. Nobody was autistic, there weren't "nut free classrooms" we brought food for birthdays and holidays like cupcakes and candy.


What changed to bring us to where we are now?
Posted by: Cheribebe


Cheribebe, THAT is the million dollar question.

Posted by: rickb223 at December 07, 2019 09:10 PM (ElK6Q)

331 Diogenes

Thanks for sharing that story.

Posted by: NaCly Dog at December 07, 2019 09:11 PM (u82oZ)

332 just looked something up

in the 1940s the lifetime risk for a woman getting breast cancer was 5%
Now it's 12%

Posted by: vmom, anti-vahzist at December 07, 2019 09:11 PM (G546f)

333 Divers told me that near the piers of every Navy base, the bottom is covered in coffee cups and other supplies.

Posted by: sniffybigtoe at December 07, 2019 09:11 PM (+0AKE)

334 Oldcat correct about Zhukov [one reason he survived the purges, and then advanced - his success against Japan]. But Moscow *was* consumed with Japan's intentions, and desperate to [as it finally did] move the divisions from that region to help tip the balance during the Battle of Moscow [they also played a role at just barely hanging on in Stalingrad until Operation Uranus was launched].


And consider that, notwithstanding the results from their earlier tussle, if those forces were withdrawn, the still-potent Kwangtung Army would have faced fairly easy prospects - AND the rail line was very vulnerable, meaning the Japanese could have cut off the Far Eastern units fairly easily, further helping their chances. And of course the Far East Lend-Lease channel - the biggest by volume of the 3 - would have been stopped cold, at sea and on land.



Posted by: rhomboid at December 07, 2019 09:11 PM (El6T/)

335 The Japanese idea was that there was to be one big battle on their turf. The outward bases were to attrit the USN to parity or less with air, and small ships like destroyers with the excellent torpedo."

The Japanese had a rather odd cultural obsession with the idea that wars were resolved with One Great Battle. This may have started with their legendary Kamikaze / Divine Wind battles with the Mongol/Chinese Empire. Closer to the present, they had won their war with Czarist Russia this way. It was foolish to believe than an entire war could be won with One Great Battle, but their history and culture told them it could, and they went with it.

Posted by: Tom Servo at December 07, 2019 09:11 PM (V2Yro)

336 Except, he has a mental block on the status of the watertight bulkhead stuffing tubes. He says an attack at sea would lead to minimal losses. But USN damage control training and performance, and the material condition of those stuffing tubes, would make his argument false.

He did not go through the zone inspection results and reports from SupShip on repairs.

We got better, under fire, in those two critical areas as the war wore on.
Posted by: NaCly Dog at December 07, 2019 08:54 PM (u82oZ)

Well, I believe he went into that in the part about the fluke sinking of the Nevada by the 250 lb bombs - the open tops of the water tight areas and the like. He also mentions flaws in the armor protection on turrets against bombs.

But the battleships had reasonable bulges for torpedo protections, and it often took a lot of torps to take one out. Look how hard it was for us to scuttle the carriers we lost in the early war like Lex and Yorktown. These were old battlecruiser designs.

With full flak on and underweigh, I don't think it would be easy to sink even an old USN BB, and losses would be light if they did. We faced those same aircrews later and did all right.

Posted by: Oldcat at December 07, 2019 09:12 PM (eoQWY)

337 335 It was foolish to believe than an entire war could be won with One Great Battle, but their history and culture told them it could, and they went with it.
Posted by: Tom Servo at December 07, 2019 09:11 PM (V2Yro)


Well, technically...

Posted by: Fat Man and Little Boy at December 07, 2019 09:12 PM (dOV9E)

338 And I don't want to spend $20 for a fuckin' chicken to find out.
Posted by: GnuBreed

Wild Turkey makes decent Turkey jerky that's about it.

Posted by: Sock Monkey...holly jolly horde member at December 07, 2019 09:12 PM (QtGXX)

339 and now that I think about it, women are always jumping on fad diets and healthy eating
I bet it's the "healthy eating" that's causing the breast cancer

Posted by: vmom, anti-vahzist at December 07, 2019 09:13 PM (G546f)

340 Vmom, when I was researching mammograms, somewhere it said that the radiation from each mammogram raised cancer risk by 2%. No idea how reliable that information is, but the 2% risk is lower than the general risk I guess, so get it diagnosed earlier for better survival.

Posted by: Emmie at December 07, 2019 09:15 PM (87gB3)

341 Divers told me that near the piers of every Navy base, the bottom is covered in coffee cups and other supplies.
Posted by: sniffybigtoe


Want two so bad.

www.glassbeachmugs.com

A replica of the WWI-era mug used in Marine Corps mess halls based on fragments found near Glass Beach, Cuba.

Posted by: rickb223 at December 07, 2019 09:15 PM (ElK6Q)

342 332 just looked something up

in the 1940s the lifetime risk for a woman getting breast cancer was 5%
Now it's 12%
Posted by: vmom, anti-vahzist at December 07, 2019 09:11 PM (G546f)

I suspect that if you correlate with the risk of dying in childbirth, it will have dropped far more dramatically than the risks of breast cancer have increased. I suspect this is behind the statistical increase in all cancers in modern society - a lot of people who died at younger ages in past generations are now living long enough to die of something else.

Posted by: Tom Servo at December 07, 2019 09:15 PM (V2Yro)

343 "the good old days was having my pop get an extra thing of root beer to bring home."


That was always a treat. When I was about 12 my Dad got the bug to make root beer, he bought a bottle cap thing and some Hires extract and we were in heaven.

Posted by: lowandslow at December 07, 2019 09:16 PM (4thlk)

344 Plenty were autistic back then, but they were called "retarded" and, once they got too far outside the norm, went to different schools. The modern labels are, at least in part, a parent rebellion, as in "my child cannot be retarded!"
Posted by: Splunge at December 07, 2019 09:10 PM (dOV9E)


That, and the Asperger's kids. I bet half of the guys in grad school would now be considered Aspies. (I'm not joking here.) They were brilliant, but ... odd. Very odd, in many cases. But everyone there was odd in various respects, so ... it kind of came with the turf. How normal were the guys in Bletchley Park, cracking German codes? I'm guessing not very.

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at December 07, 2019 09:16 PM (FXaFS)

345 We are the best fed generation in history, least nourished, and the fattest people in the world. The difference, between me and my GrandPappy Eromero? That guy did manual labor and sweated his ass off his whole life. And by the same token he smoked and drank all his life and ate whatever the hell he wanted, just like me.

Posted by: Eromero at December 07, 2019 09:17 PM (UUkQp)

346 Some official made the comment that you could trace the anti-vax movement on a map by placing a pin in every Whole Foods Market

Posted by: Fen at December 07, 2019 09:18 PM (Ad2sq)

347 sea glass is awesome.

Posted by: trapper's girl at December 07, 2019 09:18 PM (gYJGA)

348 I had breast cancer 7 years ago. Mastectomy radiation and chemo. Was told mine was the type that didn't come back AND I didn't have the breast cancer gene.
Last winter thought I had pneumonia. Nope. Breast cancer came back and mutated and was in my bones, liver, and lungs. What the ever lovin' fvck?!

Posted by: Cheribebe at December 07, 2019 09:18 PM (a4qVe)

349 And I don't want to spend $20 for a fuckin' chicken to find out.
Posted by: GnuBreed

Wild Turkey makes decent Turkey jerky that's about it.
Posted by: Sock Monkey


Wild Turkey is about $18.99 a bottle.

Posted by: rickb223 at December 07, 2019 09:18 PM (ElK6Q)

350 Oldcat

That is Zinn's argument as well as yours.

We can look at the loss of the HMS Repulse and HMS Prince of Wales for a counter example. HMS Repulse dodged 19 torpedoes. Until a second wave hit with four to five torpedoes. Those had excellent crews with plenty of combat experience.

For a first battle, I doubt we would do that good. It would have been costly in aircraft for the IJN, but they would have prevailed. So I respectfully disagree.

Posted by: NaCly Dog at December 07, 2019 09:19 PM (u82oZ)

351 Oldcat, was just what-iff'ing about a case where the IJN was told - secure our conquests and imports, but avoid war with the Americans if possible [my 2nd, even woolier "what if"].


You correctly describe Japanese expectations for a "decisive battle" in the western Pacific, with an American fleet already reduced by their torpedo and air attacks in the central Pacific. But recall *our* inter-war plans were fairly similar, a big clash in the western Pacific.



Posted by: rhomboid at December 07, 2019 09:19 PM (El6T/)

352 The Japanese had a rather odd cultural obsession with the idea that wars were resolved with One Great Battle. This may have started with their legendary Kamikaze / Divine Wind battles with the Mongol/Chinese Empire. Closer to the present, they had won their war with Czarist Russia this way. It was foolish to believe than an entire war could be won with One Great Battle, but their history and culture told them it could, and they went with it.
Posted by: Tom Servo at December 07, 2019 09:11 PM (V2Yro)

Well, it isn't that crazy. Most peacetime planning assumed one campaign one battle and home before the leaves fall. Napoleon, WWI, etc.

But since it hadn't worked out quite that well in 1905 against Russia, or in the 30s vs China, you'd think the Japanese might have been a bit more wary in 1941.

Posted by: Oldcat at December 07, 2019 09:19 PM (eoQWY)

353 {{{Cheribebe}}}

Posted by: Emmie at December 07, 2019 09:20 PM (87gB3)

354
The Japanese had a rather odd cultural obsession with the idea that wars were resolved with One Great Battle.

Sounds Klingon

Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at December 07, 2019 09:20 PM (aKsyK)

355 Rickb, I'm the same, born in 64. Nobody was autistic, there weren't "nut free classrooms" we brought food for birthdays and holidays like cupcakes and candy.
What changed to bring us to where we are now?
Posted by: Cheribebe
Cheribebe, THAT is the million dollar question.
Posted by: rickb223 at December 07, 2019 09:10 PM (ElK6Q)

Stress.

People used to have stress, but smoked and drank and lived.

Today they obsess and worry about every damn thing, it's gotta come out somewhere.

And does.

Posted by: Hairyback Guy at December 07, 2019 09:20 PM (Z+IKu)

356 Posted by: Cheribebe at December 07, 2019 09:18 PM (a4qV

How are you now?

Posted by: Easy Andy at December 07, 2019 09:21 PM (2DOZq)

357 Cheribebe, that sucks. How are you doing?
Prayers for your health.

Posted by: vmom, anti-vahzist at December 07, 2019 09:21 PM (G546f)

358 I think it was Seth Barkley, but I can't trace the exact quote

Posted by: Fen at December 07, 2019 09:21 PM (Ad2sq)

359 That, and the Asperger's kids. I bet half of the guys in grad school would now be considered Aspies. (I'm not joking here.) They were brilliant, but ... odd. Very odd, in many cases. But everyone there was odd in various respects, so ... it kind of came with the turf. How normal were the guys in Bletchley Park, cracking German codes? I'm guessing not very.
Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara


A lot of the "oddness" was lack of socialization growing up because they were so intelligent. Majority of kids weren't "brilliant".

So while we were out playing ball, they were inside by themselves studying, reading, etc.

Posted by: rickb223 at December 07, 2019 09:21 PM (ElK6Q)

360 Posted by: Cheribebe at December 07, 2019 09:18 PM (a4qVe)

Oh my God.. how are you doing? I'm so sorry. it's a battle no one should have to fight. I've lost a friend to cancer, had another fight it and win (for now), my husband had it, my mom... the list is long.

Posted by: Jewells45 at December 07, 2019 09:21 PM (dUJdY)

361 You correctly describe Japanese expectations for a "decisive battle" in the western Pacific, with an American fleet already reduced by their torpedo and air attacks in the central Pacific. But recall *our* inter-war plans were fairly similar, a big clash in the western Pacific.



Posted by: rhomboid at December 07, 2019 09:19 PM (El6T/)

Well they *had* been until the mid 30s, when our wargaming showed that it might not work. So the later Rainbow plans wrote off the PI entirely and concentrated on building bases and capability to sustain long drives across the Pacific.

It might have been harder to stick with that with an intact fleet, but lucky for us Pearl made it safe to stick with the warplan.

Posted by: Oldcat at December 07, 2019 09:22 PM (eoQWY)

362 Eromero, I disagree. My son was born in 86. We were poor as shit and ima nurse. I just didn't think putting all that crap all at once in my new baby was a good idea. He got his vaccines, just more spread out.

Posted by: Cheribebe at December 07, 2019 09:22 PM (a4qVe)

363 i love diet root beer. barq's is my fave.

Posted by: trapper's girl at December 07, 2019 09:22 PM (gYJGA)

364 Sounds Klingon
Posted by: Bertram Cabot, Jr. at December 07, 2019 09:20 PM (aKsyK)

Or do Klingons sounds like the Japanese warrior culture?

Posted by: Aetius451AD at December 07, 2019 09:22 PM (ycWCI)

365 and now that I think about it, women are always jumping on fad diets and healthy eating
I bet it's the "healthy eating" that's causing the breast cancer
Posted by: vmom, anti-vahzist at December 07, 2019 09:13 PM (G546f)


Nah. People live longer now. Cancer is a disease of later life. The average lifespan in 1900? 45 years, which is probably about the age that breast incidence begins to increase.

Infectious diseases - tuberculosis, tetanus, typhoid fever, puerperal fever, etc. - carried off a lot of people before they had much chance to die of cancer or heart disease.

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at December 07, 2019 09:22 PM (FXaFS)

366 breast CANCER incidence

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at December 07, 2019 09:23 PM (FXaFS)

367 FWIW, most of these will be the same population bomb gretas who will tell you mass starvation will wipe out humanity... Yet they want to eradicate using science to grow more food more easily.
They're also the ones who mock anyone who isn't a Marxist as "anti-science", but use some clean safe science to grow food and they'll shriek like a schoolgirl seeing a spider

Posted by: Mst3k at December 07, 2019 09:23 PM (cblFY)

368 And maybe: 5) the willingness of the Reds to agitate people on almost any basis as a way of "building a mass movement." Think that's going too far? Consider how easy it is to convince "organic" health food idiots, anti-vaxxers, etc. that "they" are poisoning you, and you have to become "active" to fight back. Kevin Trudeau was the patron saint of that kind of rubbish, a monument to items #3 and #4 above. Especially #4.
Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at December 07, 2019 08:19 PM (FXaFS)

Mostly this.

The Reds/Globalists/anti-Americans all hate the idea of a free American population freely calling the shots, instead of the elite and statists deeming what is important and what is not.

This clash in views is not new, just look at the Woodrow Wilson era. But after WWII, the globalists were in tatters, and realized a frontal attack won't work on a free people.

So, they loosely set out for the back door, sneaky way.

They took over the universities first, then the public education system. All the while in the shadows, bit by bit. Classic frog-boiling.

Today they spew faulty and false scientific information, completely censoring the proud history of accomplishments of our country. Instead, only the flaws and the shortcomings are beat into the minds of kids, who don't know any better. What is the most important date in history, according to them? It's 1619, not 1776 any more. And anyone who pushes this nonsense is an enemy of America, not a supporter.


And don't get me started how they dummy down students with insane math teaching theories. Keep 'em stupid, so they can't figure out they are being lied to.

Faulty non-science and one-sided history teaching has brought us as a society into a giant upcoming clash.

Or more accurately, the second giant upcoming clash.

Of course, nobody under 25 knows what I am talking about, because the globalist-controlled public education system censored any of the first one.


Posted by: LeftCoast Dawg at December 07, 2019 09:23 PM (sy5kK)

369 Jewells and Emmie, thank you! I just turned 55 the other day and I'm still alive so it's all good!!

Posted by: Cheribebe at December 07, 2019 09:24 PM (a4qVe)

370 cheribebe, have you looked into Fenbendazole?

Posted by: vmom, anti-vahzist at December 07, 2019 09:24 PM (G546f)

371 Cheribebe.. when my kids were babies my pediatrician spaced out the vaccines. He gave half doses then had them come back in 2 weeks for the second half. Maybe he was ahead of his time? That was close to 40 years ago.

Posted by: Jewells45 at December 07, 2019 09:24 PM (dUJdY)

372 Eromero, I disagree. My son was born in 86. We were poor as shit and ima nurse. I just didn't think putting all that crap all at once in my new baby was a good idea. He got his vaccines, just more spread out.
Posted by: Cheribebe at December 07, 2019 09:22 PM (a4qVe)


We did the same for 2 of our kids. We spread the vaccinations out. It just didn't seem right to wallop them with everything all at once.

Posted by: DR.WTF at December 07, 2019 09:25 PM (aS1PU)

373 I remember making our own root beer, but mostly cases of it in the attic the tops of some exploded onto the ceiling

Posted by: Skip at December 07, 2019 09:25 PM (ZCEU2)

374 best to you, Cheribebe!

Posted by: trapper's girl at December 07, 2019 09:25 PM (gYJGA)

375 369 Jewells and Emmie, thank you! I just turned 55 the other day and I'm still alive so it's all good!!
Posted by: Cheribebe at December 07, 2019 09:24 PM (a4qVe)

Glad to hear it. Hope everything keeps going well.

Posted by: Aetius451AD at December 07, 2019 09:25 PM (ycWCI)

376 same here - I made the dr space out the vaccines

Posted by: vmom, anti-vahzist at December 07, 2019 09:26 PM (G546f)

377 If you live long enough, you get cancer.

Posted by: davidt at December 07, 2019 09:26 PM (l3+k2)

378 www.glassbeachmugs.com

A replica of the WWI-era mug used in Marine Corps mess halls based on fragments found near Glass Beach, Cuba.


Cool. Tempting.

Posted by: t-bird at December 07, 2019 09:27 PM (1+J19)

379 one possible reason for rising bre4st cancer rates, besides BCPs?

women are living longer, so the body has time to develop cancer, same as with men.

Posted by: redc1c4 at December 07, 2019 09:27 PM (YOl0X)

380 Cheribebe.. I hope all continues to go well for you.

Posted by: Jewells45 at December 07, 2019 09:27 PM (dUJdY)

381 Coadaptation is also a thing that happens even
without humans. There is a theory that some tree seeds can't germinate
without the Dodo bird eating them and grinding off some of the husk, so
the species is not being renewed for these last few hundred years.
Posted by: Oldcat at December 07, 2019 08:14 PM (eoQWY)


Even more are avocados a and ground sloths and other new world mega-fauna.

Avocado pits have always been large, and apparently were transported in the guts of ground sloths and other extra large mammals.


Posted by: Kindltot at December 07, 2019 09:27 PM (1glZx)

382 369 Jewells and Emmie, thank you! I just turned 55 the other day and I'm still alive so it's all good!!
Posted by: Cheribebe at December 07, 2019 09:24 PM (a4qVe)


Hope you prevail!

Posted by: Emmie at December 07, 2019 09:28 PM (87gB3)

383 Thank you mom and easy Andy. I'm on the chemo for life routine. I'm alive so it's all good!!

Posted by: Cheribebe at December 07, 2019 09:28 PM (a4qVe)

384 like that French general who refused to believe reports that the Germans were rumbling through Ardennes
Posted by: vmom, anti-vahzist

They were singing the Theme from Rawhide !

Posted by: JT at December 07, 2019 09:28 PM (arJlL)

385 f you live long enough, you get cancer.
Posted by: davidt at December 07, 2019 09:26 PM (l3+k2)

My great uncle was 93 when he was diagnosed with lung cancer. Never smoked.

Posted by: Easy Andy at December 07, 2019 09:28 PM (2DOZq)

386 I fondly remember getting the gallon jugs of root beer filled at A ampersand W. That brand disappeared from this area in the mid-7Os or so. Recall running into one overseas [Asia?] many years later, which was funny.


Orange Julius, too. Then, a few years back, I run into that brand. In a mall, in Dubai.


Posted by: rhomboid at December 07, 2019 09:28 PM (El6T/)

387 women are living longer, so the body has time to develop cancer, same as with men.

I agree to a point but that doesn't explain a healthy 34 year old woman getting diagnosed with breast cancer.

Posted by: Jewells45 at December 07, 2019 09:28 PM (dUJdY)

388 Today they obsess and worry about every damn thing, it's gotta come out somewhere.

And does.
Posted by: Hairyback Guy at December 07, 2019 09:20 PM (Z+IKu)


Thought experiment: tell people that the symptom of [name dreaded ailment here] is the need to swallow repeatedly.

"I hope none of you are exhibiting any symptoms."

People are gulping furiously, now that they're thinking about the frequency with which they swallow. A minute earlier ... they were unconcerned.

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at December 07, 2019 09:28 PM (FXaFS)

389 Pearl Harbor
1941

Posted by: Riderinthesky at December 07, 2019 09:29 PM (zAlZT)

390 eo 4 - Stalingrad

Posted by: vmom, anti-vahzist at December 07, 2019 09:29 PM (G546f)

391

Vaccines ...

In November 2013, as an end-run around ObamaCare, I started getting all the vaccinations on the CDC chart, or at least as many as I could.

There are some limits on vaccinations. Getting 2 at once is possible, 1 in each arm. 3 is also possible (#3 in the hip), but Walmart seems to greatly prefer to not do this. I think they will only do shots in the arm. But 3 shots at a time is rough; some cause slight inflammation and pain at the shot location for about a day. I've had 3 at a time and yes, it's tough.

There seems to be a rule, might be a real one, that requires a minimum 30-day gap between shots (unless the shots are known to be able to be taken together, like MMR and TDaP, which are themselves vaccine cocktails).

Some vaccination protocols require a sequence that must be observed; the pneumococcus shots are sequence-sensitive, and (your) age determines which meningitis vaccine (MCV4 or Menomune) you are allowed. HPV is given only to people 26 and younger. The theory is that no one over 26 will live long enough to face the cancer threat. But I have my doubts, and I like 26 y.o. athletic females, and there are side effects to HPV ... I'm working on this one.

The 2 shots of Prevnar PCV13 must be taken 2 months apart not less, slightly longer ok) and BEFORE, at least a year BEFORE, PPSV23. The reverse sequence seems to NOT WORK; don't know why.

SoCal had a meningitis outbreak in 2016 or 2017. I had already had the Menomune and Bexero vaccinations in 2016.

There was a mumps outbreak in several parts of the US in 2014-2016. I got the MMR shot in 2013.

Our neighborhood security service told us (~2017 or 201 to avoid the occasional homeless problem that would appear in our area; there is/was a rather virulent form of Hepatitis (from SoCal, natch) going 'round the homeless. I got my Hep A & B vaccinations in 2014, but there is only a drug for C, so I took their advice.

Last year I a got a polio booster. Nothing has happened so far; no news reports ... but I went to High School with a polio survivor. He wasn't in an iron lung, so I suppose that "survivor" is accurate. OTOH, his muscles looked like a block drawing of what muscles humans had and where they were; no need for an artist's rendition. He had to use 2 hands to write (with a pencil): 1 hand to make a character or two, the other to move the writing hand to the next writing space. Naturally he had no use for shoes.

For this specific reason (there are others), I disbelieve the anti-vaxxers. This penalty is very much higher than autism.

Polio vaccination is required. Polio boosters are required. I personally believe that all of the vaccinations are required, and I spent money, and got stuck, accordingly.

I think your mileage will not vary much.

Posted by: Arbalest at December 07, 2019 09:29 PM (FlRtG)

392 That, and the Asperger's kids. I bet half of the guys in grad school would now be considered Aspies. (I'm not joking here.) They were brilliant, but ... odd. Very odd, in many cases.
Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara

---

Mrs TP has devoted her entire career to teaching special ed kids and now, educating special ed teachers. She can spot a kid of hers a mile off.

On those days when she'd pick me up from work, a 2 million sq feet building housing mostly IT dorks, she'd, of course, see thousands of others streaming out the doors.

"Do you realize how many of you guys are on the spectrum and should have IEPs?"

IEP - Individual Education Plans

Posted by: Tonypete at December 07, 2019 09:29 PM (Y4EXg)

393 We can look at the loss of the HMS Repulse and HMS Prince of Wales for a counter example. HMS Repulse dodged 19 torpedoes. Until a second wave hit with four to five torpedoes. Those had excellent crews with plenty of combat experience.

For a first battle, I doubt we would do that good. It would have been costly in aircraft for the IJN, but they would have prevailed. So I respectfully disagree.
Posted by: NaCly Dog at December 07, 2019 09:19 PM (u82oZ)

That was two virtually unescorted ships, rather than a large task force with supporting flak and air support.

We eventually did have a battle with those same planes and the result was not as one sided.

And even if they had sunk the ships, the crews would be rescued for the most part. And ships we can replace, but the Japanese could not replace aircrews. When those ran out, they were essentially done.

Posted by: Oldcat at December 07, 2019 09:30 PM (eoQWY)

394 OT: As I suspected. Virginia showed up, were competitive for a half a quarter and then Clemson just stopped toying with them and are proceeding to blow them out. Just switched over to the Badgers/Buckeyes game. The Badgers are giving OSU a headache I see.

Posted by: Puddleglum at December 07, 2019 09:30 PM (DhSOy)

395 I'm on the chemo for life routine. I'm alive so it's all good!!

You will be in my prayers.

Posted by: Jewells45 at December 07, 2019 09:30 PM (dUJdY)

396 1 Coadaptation is also a thing that happens even
without humans. There is a theory that some tree seeds can't germinate
without the Dodo bird eating them and grinding off some of the husk, so
the species is not being renewed for these last few hundred years.
Posted by: Oldcat at December 07, 2019 08:14 PM (eoQWY)

Fig Wasp. If you have eaten figs from the middle east you've probably eaten bits of wasp.

Posted by: Easy Andy at December 07, 2019 09:30 PM (2DOZq)

397

You're wrong Andy. Many have argued that anti-vaccine is anti-science.
Posted by: Frankly at December 07, 2019 09:05 PM (XQzb

You can't refer to one post that says vaccines are 100% without any side effects. You and your strawman need to get your stories straight.

And it is anti-science.
Posted by: Easy Andy at December 07, 2019

You're wrong again Colonel Sanders. Anti-science is the go-to insult to anyone who questions the vax religion. You just did it. And you didn't answer the question of why babies should be beta testing vaccines.

Posted by: Frankly at December 07, 2019 09:31 PM (XQzbW)

398 I agree to a point but that doesn't explain a healthy 34 year old woman getting diagnosed with breast cancer.
Posted by: Jewells45 at December 07, 2019 09:28 PM (dUJdY)


N = 1.

Consider the number of people who make it to 100 without any problems. N = 1 there, too. Fate.

Consider also that circa 1000 men per year are diagnosed with breast cancer, i.e., 0.5% of all cases.

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at December 07, 2019 09:31 PM (FXaFS)

399 Of all the blathering stupid the evil lefties have perpetrated, even the vaccine stupid pales in comparison to the hostility to GMO golden rice. Thousands lose their sight every year due to Vitamin A deficiency that golden rice would easily end.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at December 07, 2019 09:31 PM (JCrfD)

400 We should start referring to the anti-vaxxers as "flat earthers".

Then start including the o-eaters and warmists.

Posted by: Iron Mike Golf at December 07, 2019 09:32 PM (di1hb)

401 OT - is the 9-11 memorial worth a visit?

Posted by: vmom, anti-vahzist at December 07, 2019 09:32 PM (G546f)

402 Badgers have OSU confused.

Posted by: Pete Seria at December 07, 2019 09:33 PM (7ZQe3)

403 rhomboid

War Plan Orange by Miller, goes into the intricacies of what ADM Kimmel was up to in his at-sea training prior to Pearl Harbor. Kimmel drove his fleet hard for a surface engagement near the Marianas.

But the IJN had longer ranged patrol and strike aircraft. A fleet engagement with a full US Pac Fleet and the IJN forces that hit Pearl Harbor the Kido Butai, in late 1941, would have almost certainly been a Japanese victory.

Posted by: NaCly Dog at December 07, 2019 09:33 PM (u82oZ)

404 Cheribebe @ 362, I was talking about food mainly, and tobacco/alcohol abuse sorta. Not vaccinations. I highly recommend vaccinations. I had them but GrandPappy Eromero did not and his generation had polio and other diseases (some becoming common again). I have an autistic son who was born to ex-wife past the normal age of childbearing and a smoker. I have no idea what causes autism and knew of absolutely nobody who had it when I was a kid (born 1949). My son probably inherited his strangeness from me. Most who know me agree I am somewhat odd. And by the way I pray you have cancer beat for the second time. I know for a fact that having it even once sucks.

Posted by: Eromero at December 07, 2019 09:33 PM (UUkQp)

405 Anti-science is the go-to insult to anyone who questions the vax
religion. You just did it. And you didn't answer the question of why
babies should be beta testing vaccines.



What are your feelings on chemtrails?

Posted by: mikeyG at December 07, 2019 09:34 PM (S4/r5)

406 330 Rickb, I'm the same, born in 64. Nobody was autistic, there weren't "nut free classrooms" we brought food for birthdays and holidays like cupcakes and candy.


What changed to bring us to where we are now?
Posted by: Cheribebe

A few things changed. First people with severe allergies, asthma, etc used to die of reactions, now they live and pass the problem down in their genes. Secondly, diagnostic criteria changed. Whoever said autism was probably lumped in with other forms of mental retardation is correct. Now autism is no longer binary, we have "the spectrum" and many kids on this "spectrum" late lose the diagnosis when it turns out they speak just fine. Teachers should not be pushing "spectrum" any more than they should have been pushing ADHD. Any one of them who diagnoses should promptly and permanently lose their license. I would go back to a binary definition of autism as well.

Allergies are also diagnosed more frequently due to improved techniques. Asthma, I think, is more common not only due to increased survival rates, but due to increased obesity and less exercise as a huge percentage is exercise induced. Seems every chubby kid comes with an inhaler these days.

Posted by: CN at December 07, 2019 09:34 PM (U7k5w)

407 I love the fact that my elementary school class was just about exactly 1OO kids [my grade]. Makes comparisons and %s easy.


Three classes/teachers per grade. Whaaaat? More than 3O kids per class?? But, but, how did learning happen, "class size"!!!! eleventty!!!!! Nope - learning happened quite well, thank you.


Three [3, drei, trois] fat kids. Three. Remember their names.


One [1] kid with problems deemed to require medication. One.


You can work out the %s yourself.


Yep, I know, lots of wheels turning in all this, etc etc. But numbers don't always lie.


[oh - and teachers who with few exceptions had 2nd jobs or were 2nd-breadwinner in their household ..... don't think I need to go into the lack of benefits or pensions compared to today]



Posted by: rhomboid at December 07, 2019 09:35 PM (El6T/)

408 There is a whole bunch of shit we're exposed to every day - especially kids - that is harmful but unknown. One of those Rumsfeld-style known unknowns; we're finding new exposure hazards fairly frequently, so it stands to reason there are more to find. And they're real hazards, not CA prop 65 bullshit.


The most pernicious kind are the ones that mimic the effect of hormones.

But - every time some hippy dippy soccer mom starts wailing about "chemicals" as if they're some magically different category of substance than fucking anything else, I have to restrain the urge to slap them.

It became clear to me at some point in my 20's that we have about the same number of idiots as any civilization has had, being carried along by the non-idiots. The presence of technology doesn't make people less stupid; they're equally incapable of grokking medieval carbon steel and space age carbon fiber.

Posted by: lurker (the other one, but spelled with a P) at December 07, 2019 09:35 PM (67XdO)

409 fields needs better protection.

Posted by: trapper's girl at December 07, 2019 09:36 PM (gYJGA)

410 Coadaptation is also a thing that happens even
without humans. There is a theory that some tree seeds can't germinate without the Dodo bird eating them and grinding off some of the husk, so the species is not being renewed for these last few hundred years.
Posted by: Oldcat at December 07, 2019 08:14 PM (eoQWY)


A similar phenomenon obtains with sequoias. For decades the Forest Service assiduously put out any and all fires among the sequoias, until they realized that fires from lightning strikes burnt out pine needles, giving sequoia seeds access to the soil, and furthermore activating them to germinate.

Now the Forest Service does NOT put out fires from, e.g., lightning strikes, because they tend to be self-limiting because of the associated rain.

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at December 07, 2019 09:36 PM (FXaFS)

411 What changed to bring us to where we are now?
Posted by: Cheribebe


well, there is that foid pyramid nonsense
that probably has a lot to do withnpoor health

Posted by: vmom, anti-vahzist at December 07, 2019 09:36 PM (G546f)

412 well, I drink tequila. That's how I stay healthy. lol!

Posted by: Jewells45 at December 07, 2019 09:36 PM (dUJdY)

413 Much of the increase in disease is not from those not being vaccinated but from the large numbers of unvaccinated and diseased illegals invading our country. That along with the ill conceived idea that the homeless can live in squalor and not affect the neighborhoods they infest in California has led to the rise of even easy to suppress diseases that were long thought to be extinct.

I would bet the numbers of anti vaxxers is far exceeded by the number of invaders who carry disease with them and who's hygiene habits are conducive to the spread of disease out of laziness, ignorance and fear of seeking treatment.

Posted by: jakee308 - Hylozoist at December 07, 2019 09:36 PM (cEeb1)

414 Consider the number of people who make it to 100 without any problems. N = 1 there, too. Fate.

Nobody wants to die. They are correct.


Everybody wants to say , " I found a way not to die!" They are all incorrect.

Posted by: mikeyG at December 07, 2019 09:37 PM (S4/r5)

415 As far as the Japs go, they should have consulted with Germany and Italy on how to wage the war and act as real Allies instead of disjointed adventures which ended in defeat.

Imagine if the Axis had a conference after the Fall of France in how best to proceed in world domination instead of going at it separately.

But Hitler was nuts so what you gonna do....

Posted by: Hairyback Guy at December 07, 2019 09:37 PM (Z+IKu)

416 But Hitler was nuts so what you gonna do....
Posted by: Hairyback Guy at December 07, 2019 09:37 PM (Z+IKu)

luckily most dictators intent on world domination are nuts

Posted by: vmom, anti-vahzist at December 07, 2019 09:38 PM (G546f)

417 uncensoredhistory.blogspot.com/eyewitness account battle stalingrad alexander werth
https://tinyurl.com/syctrvm

Not long, I take it snippets from a book

Posted by: Skip at December 07, 2019 09:39 PM (ZCEU2)

418 NaCly Dawg, you just added a title to my list [now well over half-way to 1,000].



Posted by: rhomboid at December 07, 2019 09:39 PM (El6T/)

419 As for the increase in breast cancer, there are probably many. Some may be related to toxic exposure but they are attributing some of the increase to childlessness and hormone therapy.

Posted by: CN at December 07, 2019 09:39 PM (U7k5w)

420 Eromero, thank you. And I'm pologize I misread your comment I wasn't attacking just had a different perspective.

Posted by: Cheribebe at December 07, 2019 09:39 PM (a4qVe)

421 My great grandmother lived to 106

Posted by: Skip at December 07, 2019 09:39 PM (ZCEU2)

422 Oldcat

I agree that pilot number and slow training was the great weakness of the IJN.

Midway was a great victory, predicated on strong intel and incredible valor. Early in the war, we did not have that intel base, and all the hard lessons learned along the way.

An attack by the Kido Butai pilots for a first engagement with the PAC Fleet Battle Force scales well with the limited numbers of aircraft attacking Task Force Z.

Posted by: NaCly Dog at December 07, 2019 09:40 PM (u82oZ)

423 **peeks in**

Nope. Wouldn't be prudent.

**tiptoes out**

Posted by: Muldoon at December 07, 2019 09:41 PM (m45I2)

424
luckily most dictators intent on world domination are nuts

So tired of the anti-dominators being lumped in with the "nuts".

Why aren't babies tested for world-domination, huh?


WHY ARENT THEY TESTING TEH BABIES

Posted by: mikeyG at December 07, 2019 09:41 PM (S4/r5)

425 rhomboid

I seem to be doing that a lot. And you have given me books as well.

Can you come to Texas for the MoMeet? I would love to chat with you.

Posted by: NaCly Dog at December 07, 2019 09:41 PM (u82oZ)

426 The war in both theaters would have gone much differently if our code breakers weren't reading Axis communications.

Posted by: Grump928(C) at December 07, 2019 09:41 PM (yQpMk)

427 Stalingrad - crazy Nazis vs batshit crazy Commies

Posted by: vmom, anti-vahzist at December 07, 2019 09:41 PM (G546f)

428 421: My grandmother was over 100 as well. Almost never saw a doctor and certainly was never screened for cancers.

Posted by: CN at December 07, 2019 09:41 PM (U7k5w)

429 Hairyback makes a great point. The Axis was an alliance in name only, WRT Europe-Japan at least. Zero strategic coordination. Good thing. Woulda raised the cost of destroying them.

Posted by: rhomboid at December 07, 2019 09:42 PM (El6T/)

430 Thank you for the good wishes everyone!! We will do what we can until we can't anymore. Losing rickl so *quickly* really brought that home to me. It's really true for all of us; keep living, keep kickin' because sometimes the stop comes suddenly.

Posted by: Cheribebe at December 07, 2019 09:42 PM (a4qVe)

431 Whoever said autism was probably lumped in with other forms of mental retardation is correct.

Not just autism and retardation, either.

One of the guys who shows up at our weekly baseball practice is very strange, but obviously a highly intelligent guy. He graduated with a bachelor's degree in math, and we talk about math standing in the outfield while shagging fly balls during batting practice. The alternative, for me, is listening to him rant about how he - as a 35 year old - is going to be drafted by MLB for a $3 million bonus, so it's an easy choice.

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at December 07, 2019 09:42 PM (FXaFS)

432 Cool USMC mug.
That is tempting and I'm an Army guy.

Posted by: Diogenes at December 07, 2019 09:42 PM (axyOa)

433 Amanda Knox vaccinated my baby!

Posted by: Mr. Peebles at December 07, 2019 09:43 PM (oVJmc)

434 423 **peeks in**

Nope. Wouldn't be prudent.

**tiptoes out**
Posted by: Muldoon at December 07, 2019 09:41 PM (m45I2)


We almost had a "doctor in the house."

Posted by: Emmie at December 07, 2019 09:43 PM (87gB3)

435 You are most gracious, Cherebebe, just like all our other lady morons.

Posted by: Eromero at December 07, 2019 09:43 PM (UUkQp)

436 A dingo ate my baby!

Posted by: Lindy Chamberlain-Creighton at December 07, 2019 09:43 PM (yQpMk)

437 Yeah, I think if Japan had just attacked the Philippines, then seized Indonesia for oil, FDR wouldn't have been all in.

Posted by: vmom, anti-vahzist at December 07, 2019 08:30 PM (G546f)


The US had troops already in the Dutch East Indies, in combination with the Brits, Dutch, and Aussies. We would have had to swallow both the loss there and the Philippines like it was just another gunboat incident like the Panay.

I am not sure FDR had enough political capital after the unending Depression to claim it was of little import.

Posted by: Kindltot at December 07, 2019 09:44 PM (1glZx)

438 The alternative, for me, is listening to him rant about how he - as a 35 year old - is going to be drafted by MLB for a $3 million bonus, so it's an easy choice.
Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at December 07, 2019 09:42 PM (FXaFS)

Ah, a grandiose bipolar?

Posted by: CN at December 07, 2019 09:44 PM (U7k5w)

439 Nazis hated the "brown slant-eyed subhumans" and would have killed them all upon winning the war and establishing the Reich.

Posted by: mikeyG at December 07, 2019 09:44 PM (S4/r5)

440 OT: a bunch more of the Saudi "students" from Pensacola are missing. Ten have been detained, but the FBI is looking for an unspecified number of others.
The trigger-puller apparently hosted a party before the hand where several "students" watched mass-shooting videos.
He also apparently visited New York for the Rockefeller Center tree-lighting ceremony a few days before.

Posted by: Rodrigo Borgia at December 07, 2019 09:44 PM (Juxur)

441 414 Consider the number of people who make it to 100 without any problems. N = 1 there, too. Fate.

Nobody wants to die. They are correct.

Everybody wants to say , " I found a way not to die!" They are all incorrect.

Posted by: mikeyG at December 07, 2019 09:37 PM (S4/r5)


My point was that luck comes in two flavors.

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at December 07, 2019 09:44 PM (FXaFS)

442 Wisconsin is all over State.

Posted by: Grump928(C) at December 07, 2019 09:44 PM (yQpMk)

443 **tiptoes out**
Posted by: Muldoon at December 07, 2019 09:41 PM (m45I2)

We almost had a "doctor in the house."
Posted by: Emmie at December 07, 2019 09:43 PM (87gB3)


****


Yeah. So much for house calls.

Posted by: Diogenes at December 07, 2019 09:47 PM (axyOa)

444 440 OT: a bunch more of the Saudi "students" from Pensacola are missing. Ten have been detained, but the FBI is looking for an unspecified number of others.
The trigger-puller apparently hosted a party before the hand where several "students" watched mass-shooting videos.
He also apparently visited New York for the Rockefeller Center tree-lighting ceremony a few days before.

Posted by: Rodrigo Borgia at December 07, 2019 09:44 PM (Juxur)

And where is our noble FBI. Wray must go, his agency can never find motivations, and now it can't find Saudi "aviation students". After 9/11 why the fuck do we have Saudi aviation students, I thought we learned our lesson. We should stop with the high number of foreign students anyway.

Posted by: CN at December 07, 2019 09:47 PM (U7k5w)

445 Farmers Markets and "Organic" restaurants have made killing out of knowing how to manipulate leftist linguistics

"Locally Grown" is especially made for sucker-bait. Urban leftists don't keep track of produce which produce is in season when.

Lesson: If you know how to use leftist linguistics to manipulate them, you can basically hold them up by the feet and shake all their money out of them.

Posted by: kbdabear at December 07, 2019 09:47 PM (qAR6u)

446 PoW and Rep were attacked by Betty bombers, not carrier planes...

you'd have to ask Anna Puma if this made a difference.

Posted by: redc1c4 at December 07, 2019 09:48 PM (YOl0X)

447 Stalingrad was an amazing thing. The German movie from '93 captures a lot of it. I'll have to go check the books I've read on it, one was particularly good, used lots of veteran interviews, and broke some "news" [among other things, that Chuikov, the storied 62nd Army commander, had requested transfer to the east bank at the height of the German advances [they reached the river in several places and had the Red Army units broken up into little islands] - and was told "f**k no!". He was a great leader and hero of the battle, but turns out he did break at one point.


Voices from Stalingrad - Jonathan Bastable

Posted by: rhomboid at December 07, 2019 09:48 PM (El6T/)

448 My point was that luck comes in two flavors.

And I agree with you. If it wasn't clear.

I might have a fatal heart attack tonight. That is a reality.

No one, no farm, no food process, no environmental toxins, no global warmenation can change that.


I have to live with that reality. As we all do. And that's way harder than blaming a bunch of unseen strangers for their activities.

Posted by: mikeyG at December 07, 2019 09:49 PM (S4/r5)

449 i'd like a shelfful of those mugs.

Posted by: trapper's girl at December 07, 2019 09:49 PM (gYJGA)

450 > After 9/11 why the fuck do we have Saudi aviation students, I thought we learned our lesson.
Indeed. To the extent they're still "allies" (i.e., not much), their training can take place in their own country.

Posted by: Rodrigo Borgia at December 07, 2019 09:49 PM (Juxur)

451 time for some Negra Modelos, cheers.

Posted by: Jasper Moore at December 07, 2019 09:49 PM (B+t5k)

452 Hah, Bucky TD.

Posted by: Pete Seria at December 07, 2019 09:50 PM (7ZQe3)

453 Muldoon told me about caring for young vegetarian patients who had developed heart problems from the diet.

After seeing my college-aged niece who has gone vegetarian, I can see why they might develop heart problems. It appears that her skeletal muscles are wasting away, so you can imagine what is happening to her heart muscle.

Posted by: Emmie at December 07, 2019 09:50 PM (87gB3)

454 Indeed. To the extent they're still "allies" (i.e., not much), their training can take place in their own country.
Posted by: Rodrigo Borgia at December 07, 2019 09:49 PM (Juxur)

The should not be trained here and most of them should not be educated here at all.

Posted by: CN at December 07, 2019 09:51 PM (U7k5w)

455 450 > After 9/11 why the fuck do we have Saudi aviation students, I thought we learned our lesson.
Indeed. To the extent they're still "allies" (i.e., not much), their training can take place in their own country.
Posted by: Rodrigo Borgia at December 07, 2019 09:49 PM (Juxur)


***

I suspect 90% of the 535 asshats on the Hill have Saudi money flowing into their re-election coffers.

Posted by: Diogenes at December 07, 2019 09:51 PM (axyOa)

456 MikeyG there isn't any drama llamas with that thinking!!

Posted by: Cheribebe at December 07, 2019 09:51 PM (a4qVe)

457 There's probably an interesting alternate timeline story where the Japanese military actually listened to Yamamoto ahead of time.

Posted by: Rodrigo Borgia at December 07, 2019 09:51 PM (Juxur)

458 I'll just add that veganism is an eating disorder.

Posted by: Insomniac at December 07, 2019 09:51 PM (NWiLs)

459 Anyway, it seems our IC is more focused on Trump than on actual threats. Wray in particular should take the fall.

Posted by: CN at December 07, 2019 09:52 PM (U7k5w)

460 450 Bush and Barak wanted us not to learn any lessons.

Posted by: Skip at December 07, 2019 09:52 PM (ZCEU2)

461 458 I'll just add that veganism is an eating disorder.
Posted by: Insomniac at December 07, 2019 09:51 PM (NWiLs)

An extreme form of orthorexia

Posted by: CN at December 07, 2019 09:52 PM (U7k5w)

462 redc1c4

No.

The Long Lance torpedo used was the same. Standoff drop distance was the same.

The Kido Butai had Zero fighters as possible escorts and CAP. And the Thatch Weave was not invented yet. So even lumping the 3 USN CVs at sea with the Pac Fleet battle line, even with Halsey as TF commander, would not have made that much difference. A lot of IJN planes downed, but no Pac Fleet.

10 months later, the situation was different.

Posted by: NaCly Dog at December 07, 2019 09:53 PM (u82oZ)

463 458 I'll just add that veganism is an eating disorder.
Posted by: Insomniac at December 07, 2019 09:51 PM (NWiLs)


It serves no purpose except to display false virtue.

Posted by: Emmie at December 07, 2019 09:53 PM (87gB3)

464 Childbirth affects breast cancer rates in dogs. Cats. And women too.

Posted by: Asscheeks of Saturn at December 07, 2019 09:53 PM (tvFbt)

465 That TSA has sure helped a lot, eh?

Posted by: Aetius451AD at December 07, 2019 09:53 PM (ycWCI)

466 460 450 none of those chuckle heads think we pay attention

Posted by: Cheribebe at December 07, 2019 09:53 PM (a4qVe)

467 Ah, a grandiose bipolar?
Posted by: CN at December 07, 2019 09:44 PM (U7k5w)


We debate his diagnosis amongst ourselves, although none has the slightest qualifications for doing so. It's pretty much along the lines of "WTF is wrong with this guy?"

It's a good bunch of guys, and nobody is out of line with him. I kind of make sure that continues to be the case, because while he's peculiar, he's not mean or nasty or anything, although he can be tiresome.

Having said that, sometimes he's amusing. Once he came over to two of us and asked our advice on how to handle all these women who were chasing him all the time. Considering he's about sternum high on either of us, is in his mid-30s, is unemployed, and lives with his parents, we allowed as how that was indeed a pain in the ass, but he should be careful not to disappoint all these poor girls.

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at December 07, 2019 09:54 PM (FXaFS)

468 Kindltot, good point. ABDA [American British Dutch Australian] joint naval force, and a few American ground units, were in Indonesia - the central prize in Japan's "resource zone" conquests. Their destruction would have been unavoidable.


Was just "what-iff'ing" about ways for Japan to hamstring us while still grabbing their prizes.


You spoiled my counter-factual! My lawyers will contact your lawyers.

Posted by: rhomboid at December 07, 2019 09:54 PM (El6T/)

469 The TSA is a dog and pony show.

Posted by: Cheribebe at December 07, 2019 09:54 PM (a4qVe)

470 > That TSA has sure helped a lot, eh?


Sure, make 86-year-old granny take off her bra in public, while giving Muhammad al-Jihadi Muhammad his own fucking fighter jet.
Makes perfect sense.

Posted by: Rodrigo Borgia at December 07, 2019 09:55 PM (Juxur)

471 469 The TSA is a dog and pony show.
Posted by: Cheribebe at December 07, 2019 09:54 PM (a4qVe)

I don't think they'll let you on the plane with a pony, even if it is for emotional support.

Posted by: Insomniac at December 07, 2019 09:56 PM (NWiLs)

472 Organic fors have a scientific meaning: carbon - based.

Posted by: Asscheeks of Saturn at December 07, 2019 09:56 PM (tvFbt)

473 10 months later, the situation was different.
Posted by: NaCly Dog at December 07, 2019 09:53 PM (u82oZ)


The whole rampup by the American industry was amazing. Was just reading what Boeing had to do to get the B-29 into production and then consider that was the story for fighters, tanks, artillery, trucks, jeeps, landing craft, rifles and sleeping bags.
Unreal.

Posted by: Diogenes at December 07, 2019 09:57 PM (axyOa)

474 My lawyers will contact your lawyers.


In the old days it would have been your seconds.

Posted by: Grump928(C) at December 07, 2019 09:57 PM (yQpMk)

475 Insom, what If it's a *mini* pony?!

Posted by: Cheribebe at December 07, 2019 09:57 PM (a4qVe)

476 Rodrigo Borgia

Ben Bova wrote a time-travel short story in which a Japanese researcher brought Yamamoto to the future. He was eventually shown all the footage of WWII. Including his death.

Yamamoto then asked to see the rest of the pst to now. He saw a prostate japan advance to the strong economy of today.

He was sent back to change the past, with all his new knowledge. But he changed nothing. Deliberately. A good story.

Posted by: NaCly Dog at December 07, 2019 09:57 PM (u82oZ)

477 474 My lawyers will contact your lawyers.


In the old days it would have been your seconds.
Posted by: Grump928(C) at December 07, 2019 09:57 PM (yQpMk)

Why not both? Some lawyers do know how to shoot, y'know.

Posted by: Insomniac at December 07, 2019 09:57 PM (NWiLs)

478 > But he changed nothing. Deliberately. A good story.


Nice!

Posted by: Rodrigo Borgia at December 07, 2019 09:58 PM (Juxur)

479 Hello, and Merry Christmas!

Posted by: ALH at December 07, 2019 09:59 PM (D59ia)

480 Cheribebe
Yeah, right?

Reality is totally unforgiving and really damn hard to accept. I appreciate the efforts of the human mind to avoid inevitable mortality.


It's when that crosses the line into self-delusion and "imma save the WORLD cuz ONLY I know da TROOF" totalitarianism that I refuse to budge.

Posted by: mikeyG at December 07, 2019 09:59 PM (S4/r5)

481 475 Insom, what If it's a *mini* pony?!
Posted by: Cheribebe at December 07, 2019 09:57 PM (a4qVe)

Only if it fits in the overhead compartment.

Posted by: Insomniac at December 07, 2019 09:59 PM (NWiLs)

482 313

Nobody has argued that vaccines are without the potential for side effects.
Posted by: Easy Andy at December 07, 2019 08:54

You're wrong Andy. Many have argued that anti-vaccine is anti-science.
Posted by: Frankly at December 07, 2019 09:05 PM (XQzbW

Furthermore, those that argue pro-vaccine 100% dismiss/ignore its babies and children who are overwhelmingly harmed for life. They argue in bad faith by not even setting up the initial framing when arguing vaccines.

Posted by: squirrelly dan at December 07, 2019 09:59 PM (V150o)

483 Diogenes

We had focus, skilled people, and unused industrial capacity particularly suited for wartime construction.

There is no place in America today that can duplicate ship armor like we used to sue on everything bigger than a DD. And that is one of many examples.

Posted by: NaCly Dog at December 07, 2019 09:59 PM (u82oZ)

484 I don't think they'll let you on the plane with a pony, even if it is for emotional support.

Tell your browser to look for "emotional support pony plane".

Posted by: Panhandler at December 07, 2019 09:59 PM (S/rwf)

485 484 I don't think they'll let you on the plane with a pony, even if it is for emotional support.

Tell your browser to look for "emotional support pony plane".
Posted by: Panhandler at December 07, 2019 09:59 PM (S/rwf)

Oh good Lord.

Posted by: Insomniac at December 07, 2019 10:00 PM (NWiLs)

486 Frankenfoods cause global warming

Before the advent of herbicides, engineered vegetables and animal vaccines, 50 used to considered old age. Now with all of these old people in their 80s who refuse to die, it has cause global warming. The only way to stop is communism and to kill all the white men.

Posted by: Lemmiwinks at December 07, 2019 10:01 PM (h1jJh)

487 Sure, make 86-year-old granny take off her bra in public, while giving Muhammad al-Jihadi Muhammad his own fucking fighter jet.
Makes perfect sense


#threadwinner

Posted by: mikeyG at December 07, 2019 10:01 PM (S4/r5)

488 Smallpox vacs were originally organic. A couple centuries back, people noticed that individuals who'd had cow pox were immune to smallpox. Some doctors began to deliberately infect their patients with cow pox.

Posted by: Captain Josepha Sabin -- current occupation: cat furniture at December 07, 2019 10:01 PM (bYyj0)

489 Good, and if you hurry you can play with the margins

Posted by: Skip, the guy who says NOOD at December 07, 2019 10:01 PM (ZCEU2)

490 485 484 heh, I, thought I heard that

Posted by: Cheribebe at December 07, 2019 10:01 PM (a4qVe)

491 Diogenes - on that topic read "Freedom's Forge" by Arthur Herman. The industrial mobilization as viewed mostly through the stories of two giant figures, "Big Bill" Knudsen of GM and Henry Kaiser. Very interesting.


Posted by: rhomboid at December 07, 2019 10:01 PM (El6T/)

492 Insom, what If it's a *mini* pony?!




Only if it fits in the overhead compartment.



or COMPLETELY under the seat in front of you.

Posted by: mikeyG at December 07, 2019 10:02 PM (S4/r5)

493 > Furthermore, those that argue pro-vaccine 100% dismiss/ignore its babies and children who are overwhelmingly harmed for life.

Link to anyone whatsoever of consequence who has denied that sometimes vaccines produce bad reactions?
No one has "dismissed" or "ignored" that fact. No one. You're basically just making shit up up here.

They just think the rare vaccine reaction, as terrible as it may be, is preferable to half their children dying before the age of 5, as was commonly the case before vaccines, and as is STILL commonly the case in regions where children don't get vaccinated.




Posted by: Rodrigo Borgia at December 07, 2019 10:03 PM (Juxur)

494 Rhomboid,
Thanxs for the tip. I'll check it out.

Posted by: Diogenes at December 07, 2019 10:03 PM (axyOa)

495 It's not about organic. I've had dairy goats and raised pigs, chickens and turkeys. The meat you buy is mushy and flavorless. They sell you watered down milk as they make more money selling the cream for things like ice cream. They sell you fruits and vegetables picked green. I know that because I've worked in the orchards and eaten ripen apples off the same trees.

I try to buy local. I will spend more money for good quality milk and eggs. It's a question of flavor.

Posted by: Notsothoreau at December 07, 2019 10:04 PM (Lqy/e)

496 Organic foodies are CONVINCED that Big Agro is out to poison them in pursuit of profits.
Never mind that if they kill you, you buy less food in the long run. Never mind that if they incapacitate you, you cannot work and afford food.
Big Agro is out to poison them.

Anti-vaxxers are CONVINCED that Big Pharma is out to poison them in pursuit of profits.
Never mind . . .

And Big Healthcare is conspiring with both.
And so is Fascist Big Government.
And so is . . .

That is the connection - that core paranoia.
As such, it should not be any surprise that there is a crossover in followers.
Or a crossover with more general anti-government attitudes.
The only peculiar thing is how there is also a strong crossover with socialists, as they believe that a "proper" socialist super-nanny state will bring medical and food perfection. Look at how many worship Cuba.

The more intriguing thing is looking from there to the crossover with global warming and ZPG fanatics, revealing just how interconnected the whole thing is.

Which then means the even more curious thing is how many anarcho-libertarians are so willing to embrace the multi-level fraud while still convincing themselves and others that they are not a vanguard for socialism.

Posted by: Sam at December 07, 2019 10:04 PM (ohyxL)

497
Organic produce: "We don't like those dangerous, unhealthy and artificial fertilizers like ammonium nitrate, so instead we're gonna spray feces all over the crops"

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at December 07, 2019 10:05 PM (eXA4G)

498 I end up driving very late from time to time for work, and so I end up listening to "coast to coast" every now and then. I've heard, probably, three guests who were anti-vaxxers. I don't know if their arguments are representative of all anti-vaxxer claims, but since they were on a radio show talking about it I assume they were. I have yet to hear anyone address their claims other than to call them nuts. I've come to realize this is how the media gaslights you. It misrepresents what you say and then defeats the argument they created for you and calls you a nut. When the establishment does this then you can bet those "nuts" are on to something.

Posted by: DFCtomm at December 07, 2019 10:05 PM (50gG9)

499 I have yet to hear anyone address their claims other than to call them
nuts. I've come to realize this is how the media gaslights you.


Oh FFS.

Posted by: mikeyG at December 07, 2019 10:07 PM (S4/r5)

500 When the rate of certain diseases rose a few years ago during the southern border invasion, I got some booster shots for protection. T-dap, I think.

Posted by: Emmie at December 07, 2019 10:07 PM (87gB3)

501 Nood ONT.

Posted by: NaCly Dog at December 07, 2019 10:08 PM (u82oZ)

502 I challenge my immune system to stay healthy. Hell, we ate dirt as kids.

Posted by: Grump928(C) at December 07, 2019 10:08 PM (yQpMk)

503 They just think the rare vaccine reaction, as terrible as it may be, is preferable to half their children dying before the age of 5, as was commonly the case before vaccines, and as is STILL commonly the case in regions where children don't get vaccinated.
Posted by: Rodrigo Borgia at December 07, 2019 10:03 PM (Juxur)

Reactions to smallpox vaccine probably eclipse an to the current regimen. And taking care of the vaccination site was a big deal as I recall. Oddly, a neighbor kid asked me about the scar on m shoulder and said his grandparents had them too.

Posted by: CN at December 07, 2019 10:11 PM (U7k5w)

504 These vaccines are not given away for free, so the government is basically forcing you to engage in economic activity not of your choosing by injecting chemicals that you do not want into your own body or the bodies of your children.

Now can somebody please explain to me why we opposed Obamacare?

Posted by: Eric J at December 07, 2019 10:13 PM (JCPSI)

505 I also drive through farm country a lot, and it's fun to listen to the local AM channels. You getting a theme here. I .listen to a lot of local AM. It has........flavor. I've listened to a lot of advertisements for pesticide and herbicide, but not once have I heard about how safe the product is. I don't guess that's important. What I have heard is how the product isn't water soluble, and water even reactivates it. Now to me, the consumer, that sounds like I won't be able to wash it off, and trying to will just reactive it.

The problem with GMO isn't so much the fact that it's GMO. It's the fact that it's been genetically modified so that it can live in a vat of chemicals. It's that vat of chemicals that worries me and not so much the GMO part, because let's review those chemicals aren't water soluble.

Posted by: DFCtomm at December 07, 2019 10:14 PM (50gG9)

506 >>>When the establishment does this then you can bet those "nuts" are on to something.
Only if they're organic.

Posted by: Will at December 07, 2019 10:15 PM (8dlFA)

507 #nevertrustalibertarian.
Especially not when it comes to the safety of your community.

Posted by: Permaculture Pete at December 07, 2019 10:17 PM (Fxgkp)

508 I appreciating all the comments pointing out that you have no clue what the anti-vaxxers claim. The media has told you they're hippie nuts and so you believe their hippie nuts and have no idea what they're talking about. I couldn't have asked for a better example than those provided.

Posted by: DFCtomm at December 07, 2019 10:17 PM (50gG9)

509 The movie thread would have been more fun
just sayin..

Posted by: Permaculture Pete at December 07, 2019 10:23 PM (Fxgkp)

510

Because some vaccines are wonderful, then all vaccines must be wonderful.

OK, your kids go first for 20 - 30 years.

Posted by: Frankly at December 07, 2019 10:27 PM (XQzbW)

511 There's no point in arguing with anti-vaxxers. They're the equivalent of flat-earthers and the-moon-landings-were-a-hoax crowd. No amount of evidence could ever convince them, in no small part because their understanding of medicine and epidemiology is nonexistent.

Posted by: bear with asymmetrical balls at December 07, 2019 10:30 PM (H5knJ)

512 Apropos of nothing, my youngest just turned 32.

Posted by: Grump928(C) at December 07, 2019 10:31 PM (yQpMk)

513 511
There's no point in arguing with anti-vaxxers. They're the equivalent of
flat-earthers and the-moon-landings-were-a-hoax crowd. No amount of
evidence could ever convince them, in no small part because their
understanding of medicine and epidemiology is nonexistent.

Posted by: bear with asymmetrical balls at December 07, 2019 10:30 PM (H5knJ)

Would you mind characterizing their claims? How about a single paragraph.

Posted by: DFCtomm at December 07, 2019 10:32 PM (50gG9)

514 I believe in vaccines being mandatory for polio, mumps, measles, and rubella, and the DPT. Flu not so much, I only got it when it became mandatory, and not from a multidose vial. I think we should screen more enthusiastically for TB

Posted by: CN at December 07, 2019 10:35 PM (U7k5w)

515 The problem with GMO isn't so much the fact that it's GMO. It's the fact that it's been genetically modified so that it can live in a vat of chemicals. It's that vat of chemicals that worries me and not so much the GMO part, because let's review those chemicals aren't water soluble.
Posted by: DFCtomm at December 07, 2019 10:14 PM (50gG9)


Relax. The chemicals thrive on chemtrails.

But ... what "chemicals" are we talking about, specfically? IUPAC namesc or CAS registry numbers would be helpful.

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at December 07, 2019 11:55 PM (hGXZE)

516 hello test

Posted by: OregonMuse, AoSHQ Thought Leader, Pants Monitor & Austere Religious Scholar at December 08, 2019 12:01 AM (lfDrn)

517 IT'S ALL ORGANIC! Unless they've started making food out of rocks and/or petroleum by-products when I wasn't paying attention.

For Chrissakes, even Soylent Green was organic!

"Organic" is a marketing term, like "small batch" bourbon.

I don't know if this has been pointed out or not, hopefully it has, because at this point, nobody is paying attention.

Back to my large batch bourbon. It's "single barrel select,"
so that makes me smart, not dumb, smart and worthy of respect.

(No, seriously, they were selling it at the same price as the regular bottle --why do you think I bought it?)

Posted by: Ernst Schreiber at December 08, 2019 12:12 AM (xmKbk)

518 Relax. The chemicals thrive on chemtrails.



But ... what "chemicals" are we talking about, specfically? IUPAC namesc or CAS registry numbers would be helpful.

Posted by: Deplorable Jay Guevara at December 07, 2019 11:55 PM (hGXZE)

What chemicals would one spray upon produce? Battery acid?

Posted by: DFCtomm at December 08, 2019 12:36 AM (50gG9)

519 My MIL is an organic food nut. I love her, but she's over the cliff on this stuff. When she came over for Thanksgiving, she asked me to pop open the plastic pepper grinder, and when I told her we had a new one she could use, she said, "but it's not organic. I brought organic pepper corns to use." Sure as shit, she produced a zip-lock baggie of pepper corns she brought to Texas from NYC. This is a hard-right, conservative Trump supporter we're talking about here, and she's all-in on the organic food scam.

Posted by: holygoat at December 08, 2019 12:49 AM (x82Jj)

520 Remember when they used to try to make terrible ideas more palatable by tacking on the word, "scientific?" I mean, scientific socialism, for God's sake. And yet, scientific food is a no-go. People who'd commit the entire national budget to the science of climate change, which has less predictive power than macroeconomics, don't want their rice bio-engineered to have a better mix of nutrients. It's almost as though they don't care about science at all, just about brow-beating other people with the word.

Posted by: DaveM at December 08, 2019 06:22 AM (WWC3Y)

521 I am convinced that the organic/antivax movement is a symptom of white privilege .

Posted by: Bill Hedrick at December 08, 2019 09:26 AM (FsdMj)

522 "Isn't the e. coli bacteria a naturally occurring one?"

Yes, your intestines are chock-full of them right now. But there are various strains (think: conservative vs. liberal vs. users of Apple "computers," etc.), some of which are disease-causing.

Posted by: Crimso at December 08, 2019 09:46 AM (uCLNU)

523 "he publicly opposed moving the fleet to Pearl Harbor, specifically because the fleet would be vulnerable to attack by the Japanese there"

I think Roosevelt was trying to be provocative. Had someone suggested "Hey, let's move the Pacific Fleet to Manila! That'll show 'em!" they would have immediately been hauled off to the asylum, since the fleet would have been exposed to attack in Manila, whereas Hawaii was safe. As matters developed...

Posted by: Crimso at December 08, 2019 09:50 AM (uCLNU)

524 "What chemicals would one spray upon produce? Battery acid?"

ANYTHING you spray on produce (except, perhaps, insults) is a chemical. Bruce Ames did some work decades ago (late 80s maybe?) quantifying the total "load" of carcinogens from food crops, and found that 99.99% (IIRC) of all carcinogens found in food crops are naturally-occurring substances made by the plant. The synthetic pesticides with carcinogenic potential were largely (though not completely) washed away. I've got those papers on my computer at work, but alas, I'm at home. Want to say they were published in PNAS (Proceedings of the National Academy of the Sciences of the United States of America; or "Proc Natl Acad Sci USA;" or as we call it "Prock nattle acad sy oosa").

There was (IIRC) a thought-provoking comment in one of the papers speculating on what happens if you remove the assistance provided by synthetic pesticides entirely from a plant. The implication was that the plant will naturally up-regulate production of its naturally-occurring pesticidal compounds, some of which include the naturally-occurring carcinogens. AFAIK, this idea was never followed up.

Posted by: Crimso at December 08, 2019 09:59 AM (uCLNU)

525 Got some of the details wrong, but here are both the papers I had in mind, freely available:

https://www.pnas.org/content/87/19/7777.long

https://www.pnas.org/content/87/19/7782.long

For those unfamiliar with Ames, then there's no point in asserting his credibility by the fact that he is the "Ames" of the Ames assay.

In spite of his association with mutagenesis, I think he considers himself to fundamentally be a nutritional biochemist (as a biochemist, I can tell you nutritional biochemists are only rumored to exist; this is a deficiency in the field that could use some remediation, though not by me mind you).

Posted by: Crimso at December 08, 2019 10:10 AM (uCLNU)

526 522nd!
523rd!
524th!
525th!
526th!

Posted by: Crimso at December 08, 2019 10:11 AM (uCLNU)

527 Google scholar: "Adverse reactions to vaccines'.

...or, pick your BFF favorite peer-reviewed medical journal.

Saying that we need better vaccines does not make one an "anti-vaxxer".

At the moment, it's a crap shoot as to whether you or your kids/grandkids are negatively affected.

Posted by: The Knave at December 08, 2019 12:30 PM (zPHMM)

528 I am pro-vaccine in general, but in my readings I have concluded that anti-vaxxers have some very legitimate points to make. Just the same as we wish environmentalists would stop leaning on extreme fearmongering so that we could speak calmly and sanely about environmental pollutants, we should not label anti-vaxxers as pariahs for demanding more transparency and oversight in our vaccination processes (especially before trying to pass laws making them MANDATORY--frankly I am opposed to any law that makes it legal for the state to inject me with stuff against my will... no way!)

As far as GMOs and organic foods are concerned, I wouldn't wave off the fears of the safety of our food supply too quickly. Consider the recent lawsuits with respect to Roundup and cancer. Remember Mansanto genetically modifies foods to be resistant to their pesticides. Such modifications can lead one to have concerns about: A. how those genetic modifications could affect you when your body breaks down those substances and B. how much residual roundup is on (or in) those chemically bathed legumes. Further, do some personal research on the levels of BPA that have been discovered in people (more than 44% the levels considered safe!!!) There are legitimate reasons why people would want more control over what they put on their plates or in their bodies. Sadly, there is no guarantee that the organic foods are even all that free of pollutants. Again, we need more eyes on this, transparency and oversight. A sensible person would not stand in the way of reassuring that our country has a safe food supply.

Posted by: Becky at December 08, 2019 02:32 PM (JQG3D)

529 GMO food: two different varieties of apple, cross-pollination by a honey bee. People have been doing this almost since mankind developed agriculture. Science has made it more precise and expanded the possibilities. I'm not bothered by GMO foods at all.

The crap I avoid is all the super-processed, boxed food. I know a steak and baked potato is healthier than the chemicals in the box and I don't need a organic chemistry degree to figure that out.

Posted by: mr_bill at December 09, 2019 04:10 AM (ISg8/)

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